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Will This Pandemic Finally Mark the End of the US Carrier Fleet?
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Frankly, I have never considered USN carrier strike groups as a “Cold War capable” element of the US Navy. Yes, in theory, there was the notion of forward deploying these carriers to “bring the war to the Soviets” (on the Kola Peninsula) before they could flush their subs and aircraft through the GUIK gap and into the Atlantic. In theory, it should have been a 600 ship navy too, but that never happened. In reality, of course, US strike groups were the ultimate “colony disciplining” instrument which Uncle Shmuel would park off the coast of a country disobedient to the demands and systematic plundering of the USA. Since most countries in the 20th century could not sink a US carrier or prevail over the comparatively advanced aircraft deployed on them, this was, all in all, a very safe game to play for the USA.

As for “bringing the war to the Soviets”, the truth is that had it ever come to a real war, the US carriers would have been kept far away from the formidable Soviet cruise missile capability (delivered simultaneously by aircraft, surface ships and submarines) for a very simple reason: every time such an attack was modeled a sufficient number of Soviet missiles successfully passed through the protective cordon around the carrier and successfully hit it with devastating results (while sinking a carrier is not that easy, damaging it and making it inoperable does not take that many missile hits).

And that was long before hypersonic missiles like the Kinzhal or the Zircon!

Truly, as an an instrument to deter or defeat the Soviets the USN strike groups were already obsolete in the 1980s, that is long before the the Russians deployed their hypersonic missiles which, as my friend Andrey Martyanov explained in his books (see here and here) and on his blog (see here), basically made the entire US surface fleet obsolete not only to fight Russia, but also to fight any country which possesses such missiles. Such countries already include India and China, but there will be many more soon, probably including Iran!

Today, however, I won’t discuss the missile issue, but what happened recently on the USS Theodore Roosevelt, which you probably know about: her captain got fired for writing a letter (according to his accusers, bypassing the chain of command) asking for help because his crew got infected by the virus. His letter was published by the San Francisco Chronicle and you can read it here.

Interestingly, when the captain, Navy Capt. Brett Crozier, left the ship, his sailors gave him a standing ovation:

Next, Acting Navy Secretary Thomas Modly called Captain Crozier “stupid. That also became public, and he had to apologize and resign (clearly, Modly is not exactly a genius himself!). Then even more of the crew of the carrier got sick, including Crozier himself!

This is what is known in the US military jargon as a “clusterbleep”…

There is, however, also a lot of interesting stuff coming out from this story.

First, the obvious: USN carriers cannot operate effectively under a bio-attack (a truly weaponized virus would both be much more transmissible than SARS-COV-2 and it would be far more deadly). This also indicates that they would probably do no better under a real chemical warfare attack either.

Considering that in reality USN carriers are a instrument of colonial repression and not ships to be engaged against the USSR (which had real biowarfare capabilities), this makes sense (while most university labs & the like could produce some kind of virus and use it as a weapon, truly weaponized viruses, the kind effectively used in special delivery systems, can only be produced by a limited list of countries). However, in theory, all the formations/units/subunits/ships/aircraft/armor/etc of a military superpower should be trained to operate in case of a nuclear, chemical and biological attack. Clearly, this is not the case with US carriers, most likely because nobody in the USA really expected such an attack, at least not during the Cold War.

For the current situation, however, I think that the lesson is clear: the USN simply does not have an effective capability to operate under NBC attack conditions.

By the way, this appears to also be true of the French, whose only carrier has 30% infected sailors!

Second, I agree that going outside the chain of command is wrong, but let’s also consider the following here: the fact that the USS Theodore Roosevelt was having a large number of infected sailors is not something which could have been kept secret anyway, especially while in port. Not only that, but how do we know that Capt. Crozier did not write other memos through the regular chain of command before he wrote the one which became public? After all, any such memos could very easily be classified and never made public.

Finally, I will admit that my sympathies are squarely with the man who placed the lives of his man and women above all else, and not with the bureaucratic drone who put procedures and ruffled feathers above the lives of sailors and called the real officer “stupid” for his actions (wait! a USN carrier captain stupid?! Somehow I don’t think so…..).

At the time of writing (April 14th) there have been 600 sailors from the Theodore Roosevelt who contracted the virus and one death.

Finally, over 4000 sailors have now been evacuated from the ship (1000 are still onboard to operate the nuclear reactor and other key systems).

In other words, the USS Theodore Roosevelt is now completely inoperable!

The quoted CNN article concludes with:

Vice Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. John Hyten told reporters Thursday the US military needed to plan for similar outbreaks in the future as the Defense Department works to cope with the virus’ impacts. “I think it’s not a good idea to think the Teddy Roosevelt is a one-of-a-kind issue. We have too many ships at sea, we have too many deployed capabilities. There’s 5,000 sailors on a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier. To think it will never happen again is not a good way to plan. What we have to do is figure out how to plan in these kind of Covid environments,” Hyten said.

Yet more proof that the USN never took a bioattack threat seriously.

To be honest, it seems that the US Army has similar problems, here is a map of affected US bases I found on Colonel Cassad’s blog:

It appears that the US-based forces never expected any real attack (other than maybe one by terrorists equipped with small arms) so NBC security was never a priority.

Note, in Russia, at least so far (April 14th), there are zero cases of servicemen infected with the virus. This will almost inevitably change in the future, but for the time being, this is true, in spite of having Russian military units helping to fight the virus both in Russia and outside. Just saying…

ORDER IT NOW

However, this is not a fair comparison. First, bases located on land have far more interactions with the outside world than ships, even ships in port. Second, and much more importantly, in case of a pandemic or chemical/biological attack, bases located on land can better isolate those affected, bring in more resources or quickly disperse the personnel to better protect them. You can’t do that on a ship. In fact, the bigger the ship, the more it looks like an “armed cruiseliner” which, as we now all know, is a gigantic Petri dish.

Questions such as those above will only increase in number as the pandemic finally shed a much-needed light on the shocking reality about “the best! most powerful! best equipped! and best trained military force in the Galaxy!”: it can’t even protect itself from a relatively weak virus, never-mind defeat a competent enemy.

Will we get answers? Eventually, probably yes. But for the time being, the US is all about covering your ass while pointing fingers and blaming others (especially China, Russia and even the WHO!). This strategy has been an abject failure for the past decades and it will be an abject failure in the future.

Trump’s latest decision to defund the WHO (to whom the US already owes a ton of money anyway) is arguably his worst act of “international PR seppuku” which will further increase the disgust the USA already inspires worldwide. As for our Israeli friends, they are proud that their Mossad actually steals medical equipment from other countries: after all, every Israeli know that Jewish blood is sacred, while goy blood is worthless. Another case of self-inflicted “international PR seppuku” for “the only democracy in the Middle East.”

But since that is all US politicians know how to do, this is not stopping anytime soon. Likewise, what is known as the “carrier fiction” will be upheld for as long as possible, especially since there is a lot of money involved for the US ruling classes.

 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: American Military, Coronavirus 
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  1. OtherPaul says:

    The U.S. naval fleet is largely a WWII anachronism.

    • Agree: Crazy Horse, bluedog
    • Disagree: anachronism
    • Replies: @Czethertihor
  2. Alfred says:

    The fact that only one sailor has so far died – probably an obese sailor with other medical problems – out of the 5000 sailors on the ship suggests that the captain was an idiot to publicize his letter to his superiors.

    Clearly, the sailors were well-acquainted with the lies of the mainstream media about the deadliness of this virus – they were as hysterical as the general public is. I find it hard to believe that a similar scenario could ever take place on a Chinese or Russian capital ship. It would seem to me that notions such as discipline and self-sacrifice are no longer there.

    First study in Germany: only 0.37 percent of corona infected people die from it

    Interim results of the first representative study in Germany are causing a stir. According to this, the death rate of the novel virus is only around 0.4 percent.

    Erste Studie in Deutschland: Nur 0,37 Prozent der Corona-Infizierten sterben daran

  3. @Alfred

    Everything about Germany’s reporting seems as bogus as China’s. So I don’t know that I would be citing them as authorities unless you think that Germany’s ubermeschen have immunities to Covid that the rest of the world does not.

  4. Saker wrote:

    Will we get answers? Eventually, probably yes. But for the time being, the US is all about covering your ass while pointing fingers and blaming others (especially China, Russia and even the WHO!).

    That’s Saker laboring mightily, yet again, to deflect attention from the shitshow in his glorious ascendant re-Christianized Mother Russia. He includes another dose of blood libel against the Jewish state.

    And what dies not-fake news tell us?

    [MORE]

    As COVID-19 cases spike in Russia, the Kremlin struggles to respond

    In an interview with CBC News on Monday, Dr. Rimma Kamalova, who heads the hospital’s rheumatology department and is quarantined in the facility, said when the outbreak started, regional health authorities refused to test patients for coronavirus.

    “According to our policies … we could not do testing on coronavirus,” she said.

    “We had orders, at that time, not to give this diagnosis and take the relevant [mitigation] measures.”

    She spoke with CBC News while awaiting the results of her own COVID-19 test, noting that she was already exhibiting high fever and other symptoms. Every single other doctor on her ward is also sick, she said.

    “We were extremely worried about this. [The patients] would come into the hospital, be admitted and then treated, then discharged and they would go back to their towns, and cities and regions.”

    Doctors defiant

    Once the extent of the outbreak became apparent, she says, the same health authorities that ordered them not to test for coronavirus accused them of letting it get out of control.

    By April 6, the situation had become too extreme to ignore and the entire hospital was put into quarantine, with no one, including staff, allowed in or out.

    In the northern region of Komi, the Moscow Times reports that six hospitals are under a similar quarantine.

    In Moscow, … Hospital admissions are spiking, according to the city’s mayor, and widely circulated social media videos this week have shown long lines of ambulances waiting to drop off patients. Some drivers complained they had been in line for as long as 15 hours.

    Increasingly, doctors are coming forward and risking their positions and reputations to speak out about the deteriorating situation.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/covid-19-russia-spike-cases-1.5533647?cmp=rss

    • Disagree: anachronism
    • Troll: bluedog
  5. I’ve read that the Theodore Roosevelt made a port call in Vietnam where the sailors may have been exposed to the virus via Chinese bar girls. But I don’t know what kind of information the captain had about the presence of the COVID-19 virus in any particular port, or even whether the Chinese bar girl hypothesis is correct. Right now the French authorities are examining where the crew on the Charles DeGaulle may have been exposed to the virus.

    Illness has always been a substantial hazard of military service. My two ancestors who died in military service (American Civil War) died of disease, not wounds. Illness probably inflicted more casualties than enemy action in every armed confict until (probably) World War II. If enlisted personnel and officers are not being briefed on disease avoidance and containment, the military isn’t doing its job. The COVID-19 virus doesn’t seem all that dangerous in any event, especially to a fundamentally pretty healthy group of people such as an aircraft carrier crew.

    The captain of the Roosevelt clearly suffered from Sun Tzu’s fifth serious flaw in a commander: excessive solicitude for his men (my emphasis). His job was to make his superiors (probably the Commander in Chief, Pacific) aware of the situation and await orders. If he felt he could not in good conscious obey those orders, his proper course of action would have been to resign and publicize the reason for doing so, without compromising classified information. Leaking his (four page!!) letter to the San Francisco Chronicle was clearly a breach of his duties as an officer. I don’t think the Assistant Secretary of the Navy was justified in calling him “stupid,” but I think “drama queen” fits him pretty well. I just can’t imagine John Paul Jones, Stephen Decatur, David Farragut or Ray Spruance doing anything like this. The fact that his crew liked him doesn’t resolve the issue (see Sun Tzu above).

    And reports on the potential impairment of operational readiness are properly classified–an enemy would be very interested in the abiity of a ship to fulfill its mission, and how that might be affected by disease.

    The ultimate heresy of Captain Crozier was to point out that the United States was “not at war,” and putting the sailors at risk was unjustified. Oh, that’s why the U.S. needs eleven (count ’em) carrier strike groups and a defense budget pushing three quarters of a trillion dollars! Because the U.S. is not at war. What would it be like if the U.S. were at war?

  6. Ohhhh good grief,

    allow me to be frank.

    Nuts!

    The US Naval fleet remains as valuable now as it was previously. It needs to reconfiguration to smaller and faster in my view — however. Not every conflict is going to be against Russian or Chinese hypersonic missile systems or involve US hyper-sonic systems.

    In fact, most conflicts will remain low level conventional struggles in which power projection on sight or in region will be crucial — the US Navy and navy with that capability is best positioned to exert force to policy.

    It’s really that simple.

    It is accurate that all naval vessels regardless of size are vulnerable to attack and serious mage — even low level attack as occurred in the gulf some twenty five years years ago, by simple speed boats.

    What the virus reminds the armed forces preparedness plans to do is engage in scenarios in which you have a loss of 50% of your crew. What is the lowest level crew required to man any vessel and train and cross accordingly.

    • Replies: @joe2.5
    , @FB
    , @anachronism
  7. In other words, the USS Theodore Roosevelt is now completely inoperable.

    Not at all. It is what those in the honourable profession of arms call C-4: Unit requires additional resources or training to undertake its mission. Definitely not ready at any level and cannot fulfill the mission in the event of war. Will take some time to be trained and equipped.

    Yet more proof that the USN never took a bioattack threat seriously.

    To be fair to the USN, they had no reason to believe they were under threat of a bio-attack. They undoubtedly run through NBC training drills, which on a hot deck in the middle of the Indian Ocean is a special form of hell, but no one would have thought running around in NBC equipment and running decon protocols was something one would do for a bad case of a cold or flu epidemic.

    It appears that the US-based forces never expected any real attack (other than maybe one by terrorists equipped with small arms) so NBC security was never a priority.

    Again, to be fair, you prepare for executing NBC if you have a strategic or tactical indicator of a threat. A cold or flu was figuratively off the radar as a hostile threat.

    • Replies: @joe2.5
    , @Bill Jones
  8. AWM says:

    Does Saker really believe the US Navy doesn’t know the full capabilities of all players in the field?
    I would re-equip the surface fleet with nuclear munitions, just to be able to classify it as part of the Strategic Delivery System and any attack on it would guarantee a reply in kind. Then we wouldn’t have these stupid types of discussions.
    You know, mobile airfields are a great asset to have, especially when you are cleaning up the mess left by the MK5 W88 RVs.

    • Replies: @NPleeze
    , @Carlos217
  9. anon[317] • Disclaimer says:
    @Diversity Heretic

    good conscious

    In good conscience, one must recognize that both Moldy and Captain Crazier are parasitic scum draining the wealth of the nation. Moran much?

    • Replies: @Quartermaster
  10. joe2.5 says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Essentially you agree to exactly what the Saker is saying: airplane carriers are good for colonialist obedience training of minor nations (which you sord differently) — not good enough for taking on the big boys, though. So, not “nuts”.

  11. joe2.5 says:
    @The Alarmist

    To be fair to the USN, they had no reason to believe they were under threat of a bio-attack.

    Just the fact of not believing they were under threat is enough to indict and hang them.

    The Chinese were ready for a bio-attack, faced the epidemic as bio-warfare, in all preparedness and with resounding success, and did all this openly, letting everyone know each step they were taking. Compare to the ineptitude, chaos, abject unpreparedness and plain mental retardation of our military (and civil, and medical) establishment, and this, weeks and months after the Chinese lesson was online.

    Anyway, the unpreparedness of the imperial US arms is not necessarily bad news.

  12. It’s always funny to see war game soldiers comment on what is going on in the military. There’s more to than you’ll see in a game of Risk. There was no reason why the military should have thought they were subject to a biological attack. That position was to be found from the deck plates to the CNO’s cabin in DC. In Short, you’re simply being an ignorant idiot like Saker.

    If you think we should be hanging people, I would suggest “you first.” After all, you said nothing to anyone because your raving is all after the fact. The worst part of this is being suffered by the Red Chinese. So they must have made a biowar attack on themselves.

    • Troll: NPleeze
    • Replies: @joe2.5
  13. @04398436986

    Yeah, Saker ignores the stuff that is staring him in the face because St. Putin can do no wrong. Putin is busy denigrating his country, yet Saker sees nothing. That’s why I come – to get a good laugh at his clownish meanderings. He rarely disappoints.

  14. @anon

    Putin makes those two look like rank amateurs in that pursuit.

  15. Tom Verso says:
    @Alfred

    I hadn’t paid much attention to the USS Theodore Roosevelt issue and while reading this article I was tending to agree with the writer (i.e. sympathy for the heroic captain and contempt for the fool bureaucrat).

    But, then the numbers gave me pause: a ship population of 5000; 600 sick (12% 0f crew); 1 dead (.166 % of sick; .02% of total crew). But, I just kept reading.

    Then I read your comment and it was like the emperors new clothes. Are these numbers really a reason to take a WAR Ship out of harms way?

    Presumably that ship was protecting the nation. Now it is not and the nation is vulnerable. Were 600 sick and one dead good reason to leave the nation vulnerable?

    What happened to: “Ours is not to question Why! Ours is just to do or Die!

    I’m not saying one way or the other, but it does sound like the Captain may have over reacted based on news media and panicked. And the Secretary had some reason to be critical.

    • LOL: bluedog
    • Replies: @joe2.5
    , @Crazy Horse
    , @Realist
  16. ‘At the time of writing (April 14th) there have been 600 sailors from the Theodore Roosevelt who contracted the virus and one death.

    Finally, over 4000 sailors have now been evacuated from the ship (1000 are still onboard to operate the nuclear reactor and other key systems).

    In other words, the USS Theodore Roosevelt is now completely inoperable!..’

    Well, it’s inoperable if one actual death and twelve percent of the crew having the sniffles is considered crippling.

  17. joe2.5 says:
    @Tom Verso

    Presumably that ship was protecting the nation.

    How? By waging war of aggression, the count that hanged the Nazis in Nuremberg?That’s the only thing the US arms have done at least since 1945. No exceptions. All these billions criminally wasted on arms and war would have come very handy now… to protect the nation.

  18. SafeNow says:

    China has launched several monster Coast Guard cutters, 12,000 tons, the size of a destroyer. They are winning confrontations in the South China Sea, mainly due to the size of the darn things. Inasmuch as our carriers are useless as carriers, we should simply paint a pair of diagonal orange stripes on our pacific carrier, remove all of the aircraft and the aircraft-related crew members and call it a cutter. OK, leave a few helicopters and one fixed-wing aircraft, and add USCG rescue gear and rescue training. Social distancing will be easy on this cutter, because half the crew will be gone.

  19. utu says:

    “I have never considered USN carrier strike groups as a “Cold War capable” element of the US Navy” – When the first thought about Cold War entered your mind the Cold War was long over. Why don’t you go back to those good old days when you played in the sandbox and didn’t pester anybody with your ‘analyses’?

    • Agree: ivan
  20. TG says:

    My understanding is that the US Navy’s submarine fleet is completely untouched by the coronavirus. Who’d have thought?

    Indeed there are many excellent points here, yes, carriers are an instrument of Neo-colonial oppression of limited use against peer adversaries. BUT: a ship at sea is the absolutely safest place to be in a pandemic, AS LONG AS YOU DON’T LET INFECTED PEOPLE ON BOARD.

    The carrier let all these sailors go on shore leave in Vietnam, they came back and the infection spread. But if you can quarantine and screen the sailors before the ship disembarks, and they don’t do shore leave, they are safe. And while a sealed environment is bad if an infected person is already inside, it’s pretty good against an outside attack.

    My thoughts: carriers, because of the sheer number of people jammed together, will remain vulnerable. Other ships will simply screen and maybe quarantine their crews before deployment, and limit shore leave, and beef up their monitoring and air filters. Ultimately the navy may be the one branch of the service that is the most resistant to any kind of biological attack, because the personnel operate in sealed metal cans.

    • Agree: Crazy Horse
    • Replies: @lysias
    , @Avalanche
  21. Alfa158 says:

    All ships are vulnerable to communicable disease because they have large numbers of people living in close proximity in enclosed spaces. An aircraft carrier is no more vulnerable in that regard, it just makes for a more spectacular example.
    What will doom the aircraft carrier fleet is either the degrading US economic situation making them unaffordable, or their use in combat against a high capability adversary, which will as you point out, put their vulnerabilities on display.
    It is instructive to examine the heyday of the aircraft carrier which was the Pacific War in WW2. Because of the fragility of aircraft carriers, from late 1942 to 1944, the US and Japanese Navy were forced by brutal losses to severely curtail their use in order to keep them away from attacks by submarines and land based aircraft. There was a stretch in which the US never had more than one operable carrier at a time, and the US Enterprise was the only Pacific fleet carrier at the beginning of the war that survived. The massive industrial capacity of the US allowed it to build a fleet of over 90 carriers including 16 fleet carriers plus numerous escort carriers and equip them with aircraft and trained crews. This massive disparity in force allowed the Navy to overwhelm the Japanese and make the carrier the queen of the sea but it was an artificial situation made possible by lopsided material capability.
    The Covid virus could accelerate the bankruptcy of the US and make our Imperial military budgets untenable. Running the money printing presses will not be enough to keep indefinitely buying 10 billion dollar ships and 135 million dollar F-35’s. We may be forced to go back to being a Republic again, if it isn’t too late.

  22. Maybe this movie was onto something.

    • Thanks: SafeNow
  23. @Alfred

    I think the carrier captain deserves no less than a court-martial, hard time, etc. Since keelhauling is no longer in vogue.

    Say the bug kills 3%. A proper military leader would laugh at that, and he’d lead, and inspire his men to laugh at it also. Trench foot, having wet sox, was probably more lethal in WWI, due to no antibiotics at the time and the fact that having fucked up feet probably caused more than one doughboy to raise his head when he shouldn’t, and Jerry Sniper got him.

    The whole thing is to be treated as a training exercise, and the whole reason ships go out on maneuvers is to encounter difficulties and train in overcoming them.

    How have we gone from laughing at kamikazes to weeping over something that, like road traffic back on dry land, *may* kill you that day but *probably* won’t.

    • Replies: @TG
    , @lysias
  24. @04398436986

    “He includes another dose of blood libel against the Jewish state.”

    Bwaaaa! The Jewish “state” is a blood stain on humanity. In the end we will discover that just as it was jews who drained the blood from children by a thousand gematriac pin pricks before casting thier bloodless corpses down the well, so was it the same tribe of jews who have released a gematriac arsenal of virus strains across the planet in order to drain it of their despised goyim.

    • Agree: Bill Jones
  25. Vinnie O says:

    Coincidentally, the new class of CVNs were dead on arrival. It seems their design is based on the VERY strange concept that ALL systems on the new ships run on Electricity: no hydraulics, no compressed air, etc. This DIRECTLY resulted in the lead ship FAILING Acceptance Trials. Among other things, if any of the electric catapults goes down, ALL of the catapults go down.

    The cost of correcting this STUPID design flaw is estimated to hit 1 TRILLION (with a T) USDs. And as far as I know, NO ONE is being court-martialed or even fired. But then the purpose of The Defense Budget is to pass out MONEY to big corporations. There is no expectation that DoD get ANYTHING in return, and in fact a recent investigation of the Air Force simply concluded that it is IMPOSSIBLE for the USAF to ACCOUNT for the money is gives away. And NOTHING will be changed to make SIMPLE ACCOUNTING work in the Department of the Air Force.

  26. Pandour says: • Website

    There was a joke going round the Soviet Union in the 1960s-How can you tell a sailor from the Baltic Fleet-he glows in the dark-.The result of exposure to radiation.Now that Im at it,I remember the mutiny of the Soviet frigate Storozhevoj on Nov. 9th 1975,led by the ships Politkom and Captain Valery Sablin,in protest against the rampant corruption of the Brezhnev era.With the backing of the crew the ship set sail from Riga to Sweden to seek political asylum.Half the Baltic Fleet joined by 60 warplanes was sent in pursuit.The ship was bombed and strafed repeatedly.After the steering was damaged it was boarded by marine commandos.Sablin was convicted of high treason and shot by firing squad.The rest of the mutineers were dishonorably discharged from the Soviet Navy.Just one of the countless glorious incidents from the annals of The Land of the Soviet Dawn.

    • Replies: @FB
    , @Andrei Martyanov
  27. Crazy Horse says: • Website
    @Tom Verso

    Could you explain how the USN is “protecting the nation”? As far as I can see it is nothing but an imperialist fleet that practices gun boat diplomacy. How does this protect us?

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Tom Verso
  28. joe2.5 says:
    @Quartermaster

    There was no reason why the military should have thought they were subject to a biological attack

    Here is one among several other reasons: the US has been preparing, developing and testing biological warfare against a good portion of humanity since 1945 at least, so not expecting to be attacked in the same way would be a sign of mental retardation.

    The worst part of this is being suffered by the Red Chinese. So they must have made a biowar attack on themselves.

    Well, they obviously were ready, competent and efficient in bio-warfare defense. And the attack, if there was one, was expected to come from the US empire.

    • Agree: Bill Jones
  29. 37 says:

    It’s interesting how “whistle-blowers” were treated by the establishment in this case contrasted with other notable cases.

  30. @Diversity Heretic

    that his crew liked him doesn’t resolve the issue (see Sun Tzu above).

    Correct. Of course, the video of his sendoff was presumed by fools to be dispositive for non-fools.

    The captain smells like J Comey.

  31. @04398436986

    calling it a ‘blood libel’ is just another way of saying you don’t care if it’s true, because Jews, whose god justified genocide and theft for his ‘chosen,’ can do no wrong.

    • Replies: @Ship Track
  32. @The Alarmist

    “those in the honourable profession of arms”

    I do like well done satire.
    Please play again soon.

    • Agree: Realist
    • LOL: NoseytheDuke
  33. Avianthro says:

    As the science looks to be shaping up, https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/, it is going to turn out in hindsight that Captain Crozier was a bit covid-over-reactive, like almost everyone else, and yet that certainly wasn’t stupid at the time he made the call to write his letter. The charge of stupidity can however be laid against him on the same basis as for nearly all the rest of the MIC-Pentagon establishment for not calling to entirely disband and dismantle the USN’s long-outmoded carrier fleet.

    More importantly, he can also be charged with moral turpitude, along with the rest of his cohorts, since he’s no Smedley Butler…

    https://www.commondreams.org/views/2020/02/20/where-have-you-gone-smedley-butler

  34. @Simon of Trent

    04398436986 is a holocaust survivor, it has that tattooed on its arm.

    • Replies: @anachronism
  35. utu says:
    @Crazy Horse

    USN is protecting international shipping lanes for everybody.

    • Agree: Ivan
    • Replies: @Alexandros
    , @animalogic
    , @Biff
  36. @Diversity Heretic

    Your last paragraph is superfluous. The US is NOT at war. The fact it wastes $$ on eleven
    Carrier groups changes nothing.
    If i understand it correctly, the Captain had sent a letter to a number of superiors prior to the Chronicle.
    He apparently received less than satisfactory acknowledgements.
    So he went to a newspaper.
    Yes, in theory this a very seriius breach of duty.
    Some rate it as justified in the circ’s. You more or less do not.
    Such judgements impliedly at least reveal attitudes to tbe virus.
    You rate the virus as not serious:
    “The COVID-19 virus doesn’t seem all that dangerous in any event, especially to a fundamentally pretty healthy group of people such as an aircraft carrier crew.”
    Therefore you think the captain’s acts were not in the Navy spirit (ie tough etc).
    The captain showed “excessivess” solicitude for his crew. He’s a “drama queen”.
    I believe the weight of evidence is probably against your Covid views. Although its not so clear cut that such views can not be legitimately expressed. (the moon is made of green cheese is not a legitimate view).
    I believe that the Captain may have been justified in his actions — a lot depends on the whole back story. Absent war/battle etc the Captain’s care of his crew would be one of his top duties. I think him right to determine he had a very serious risk situation. A ship is a wonderful place to breed contagious viruses. The risk of, & actual eventuality of illness & death would then likely be sheeted home to the captain.
    Rock & hard place ….

  37. @utu

    When they are not blockading countries they don’t like you mean.

  38. @Alfa158

    The world’s highest paid cop—USM, almost $1T/year—may have to go on paid leave. It’s one thing to muscle resource rich countries and competing powers. But what to do when the enemy is one’s own body?

  39. @utu

    Protecting sea lanes from whom ?
    Pirates ? That’s valid, but a carrier group might be considered overkill. Any other likely threats…?
    Perhaps “protecting” is really “projecting” (power) ?

  40. Anonymous[181] • Disclaimer says:

    Don’t you ever fall in love with idea that coronavirus kind epidemic will kill “as small share of people” as in every country. It won’t happen. There are countries more decimated than others. There will be states in USA less decimated than others. And there will be nations fighting against epidemic far more effective than others. It’s obvious that countries like China, S-Korea and Taiwan have been much more effective that USA. Take it or leave it but Empire is now hanging on ropes badly beaten and we are now in Round 2.

    • Replies: @Observator
  41. Sean says:

    By the way, this appears to also be true of the French, whose only carrier has 30% infected sailors!

    Russia had a deal for France’s Mistral class assault ships which are highly automated and can be run by a tiny crew. They also have advanced engines. The first one was going to be called the Vladivostok.

    https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcQrW5U9jiO8NSmt2Rj62l2WO-EKSvk5o_d-Bta-QRlfgkuGOfU4&usqp=CAU

    A few moths ago, the Mistral deal having been cancelled by France, Russia sent its most impressive ship through the Dover straits, flaunting their technological edge.

  42. Alfred says:
    @davidgmillsatty

    Everything about Germany’s reporting seems as bogus as China’s

    That is a staggering comment to make about the Germans – a people renowned for their efficiency and thoroughness. They have a vastly superior reporting system for chest infections to anyone else that I know of. 🙂

    Here is their latest weekly report (PDF in German) It was updated last Thursday (April 16). It is entitled Influenza Weekly Report

    I have extracted from this report the two charts below. I provide translations. If you don’t like real data and prefer the politicized crap coming out of New York, that is your problem.

    The estimated rate for people with a newly emerging acute respiratory disease (ARE, with or without fever) for the population in Germany remained stable in the 15th week (April 6th – April 12th, 2020) compared to the previous week (1, 8%; previous week: 1.8%). The rate of flu-like illnesses (ILI, defined as ARE with fever) has also remained stable compared to the previous week (0.2%; previous week: 0.2%). Late registrations can sometimes significantly change the values of the previous weeks.

    The values of the consultation incidence fell sharply in the 15th KW 2020 overall and in all age groups compared to the previous week, the value (total) was around 450 medical consultations for ARE per 100,000 inhabitants. Based on the population in Germany, this corresponds to a total of around 370,000 visits to the doctor for acute respiratory diseases (Fig. 2).

  43. NPleeze says:
    @davidgmillsatty

    unless you think that Germany’s ubermeschen have immunities to Covid that the rest of the world does not

    No, it’s just they test more people.

    Death rate = (number of people testing positive) / (number of people who tested positive who died)

    Most countries are only testing the very sick – and yes, the very sick will have a higher death rate. And if you only test the dead, the death rate will be 100%.

    This is such an obvious fact, but so many uncritical people are easily manipulated by the mass media hysteria.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @CyrusTheGreat
    , @joe2.5
  44. NPleeze says:
    @04398436986

    another dose of blood libel against the Jewish state

    Awww, poor ZioNazi, your shit-hole demon-worshiping pariah terror state getting some well-deserved criticism, if only ALL the media could be controlled by ZioNazi demon-worshipers instead of just 95%!

  45. Greg Bacon says: • Website

    Saker, surely you know that reality never intrudes on the bloated Pentagon’s budget? The carriers are safe, if anything, lobbyists will spread around some walking money on Capitol Hill, claiming that the Roosevelt incident shows that the Navy needs more, not less carriers.

    After all, gotta keep our special ally Israel, safe from those nations that might not like having their land and water stolen or their people killed by the Israeli psychopaths and might get all uppity and try to defend themselves from those Zionist brigands.

    U.S. Alerted Israel, NATO To Coronavirus Outbreak In China In November

    “US intelligence agencies alerted Israel to the coronavirus outbreak in China already in November, Israeli television reported Thursday.

    Information on the disease outbreak was not in the public domain at that stage — and was known only apparently to the Chinese government.

    US intelligence informed the Trump administration, “which did not deem it of interest,” but the report said the Americans also decided to update two allies with the classified document: NATO and Israel, specifically the IDF …

    http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2020/04/16/u-s-alerted-israel-nato-to-coronavirus-outbreak-in-china-in-november/

    As of today there’s around 35K dead. Give this scam anudda year, and there might be as many deaths as the 2018 FLU season, around 80K.
    What’s that, you never heard of the 2018 flu deaths? That’s b/c the (((TBTF))) casinos were still placing bad bets and looting, and didn’t need a multi-trillion dollar bailout from American taxpayers.

  46. NPleeze says:
    @AWM

    just to be able to classify it as part of the Strategic Delivery System and any attack on it would guarantee a reply in kind.

    That’s hilarious, you do seem to presume that the US is ruled only by lethal psychopaths.

    Fact is US would be just as annihilated as Russia or China were it to launch a nuclear attack. Getting annihilated for someone sinking your aggressive, destructive, evil aircraft carriers is something even these arrogant, lethal, soulless psychopaths may not want to do.

  47. vot tak says:

    Cheers to the captain, Crozier, jeers to the buggered horse manure peddlers propping up the zionazi-gay establishment tripe that promotes obedience and conformism above all else among israel’s pathetic colonials.

    Decent officers take care of those under their command, arse bandits and arse kissers don kneepads and drop their trousers and service their massas.

  48. vot tak says:

    “To be honest, it seems that the US Army has similar problems, here is a map of affected US bases I found on Colonel Cassad’s blog”

    Apparently those u.s. military personnel training for the Wuhan military games at fort belvior infected a few people stateside before going to China… ;-D

    Agree with saker about the utility of carriers in a peer to peer nuclear war. They would be targets for a few missiles, not much else. Regarding biowar or chemwar, not much point in wasting time using either upon ships at sea when a simple high explosive missile warhead would do the trick faster and more effectively.

    The coronavirus problem the u.s. military is facing, and this includes ships at sea, is not a biowarfare problem, but a medical problem. They are simply not prepared or equipped to deal with large scale disease outbreaks.

  49. Biff says:
    @utu

    USN is protecting international shipping lanes for everybody.

    Hardy, har, har. Unless it serves their interests, they are much like Barbary pirates on the high seas seizing and stealing anything they can get their hands on. There’s a good chance, or excellent chance
    Ghaddaffi’s gold and silver reserves were loaded on to a USN vessel and shipped to a bailed out bank that resembles Fort Knox(get it?). Like modern day pirates – might makes right..

    Nothing has changed!!
    Human evolution is barely out of the jungle!

    The altruistic propaganda schtick has got your noodle in a headlock – now go raise your flag, and say your pledge.

    • Replies: @The Grim Joker
  50. Wielgus says:

    The whole thing is the reverse of the US TV propaganda fest The Last Ship, in which a US naval ship at sea is just about the only entity on earth spared a devastating pandemic, complete with evil Russians, a noble and tough female Israeli etc.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
  51. Realist says:

    Will This Pandemic Finally Mark the End of the US Carrier Fleet?

    Not a chance…aircraft carriers are one of the greatest tools in the arsenal for US world hegemony. They allow the US to project power all over the planet.
    There is a twofer for the production and utilization of aircraft carriers. First there are cost overruns, extreme cost projections for material and labor, corruption and kickbacks….plus the multibillion dollar support groups. Second the utilization of carriers allows the US to instigate conflict, almost, anywhere they want, thereby justifying the production of war materiel…guns, tanks, missiles, airplanes…it is an in believable bonanza for the Deep State.

    Oh hell no, why would the wealthy and powerful give that up?

    • Replies: @Realist
    , @Spanky
  52. Carlos217 says:
    @AWM

    Ships are visible and are allowed to sail in int waters close to another nations territory in int law.

    So the US would be sailing their nuked armed boats closely passed other countries.

    They may well think who gives a fuck until the Chinese / Russians sail their nuke armed ships 30 miles from the US west coast.

    That’s why no one does that.

    Subs are another matter because they are invisible so no one talks about that obviously contradiction.

  53. Realist says:
    @Tom Verso

    Presumably that ship was protecting the nation.

    I always wonder what goddamn convoluted…dumbass thinking goes into a statement like that.

    • Replies: @Tom Verso
  54. Realist says:
    @Realist

    Should read… unbelievable bonanza for the Deep State.

  55. Cleburne says:

    Will This Pandemic Finally Mark the End of the US Carrier Fleet?

    Yeah, just like the Solemani hit ended the American hegemony in the Middle East.

    I loathe the “empire” as much as the next man, and as a Southerner I have my own reasons to loathe the stars and stripes and all its works, but honestly Mr Saker, sometime you drift over into fan fiction.

    Trump’s latest decision to defund the WHO (to whom the US already owes a ton of money anyway) is arguably his worst act of “international PR seppuku” which will further increase the disgust the USA already inspires worldwide.

    Can you please explain why I should give a tin shit?

    Hope all is comfy for you and yours in Florida, Mr Saker.

  56. Parbes says:
    @davidgmillsatty

    “Everything about Germany’s reporting seems as bogus as China’s.”

    How do you “know” that China’s reporting is “bogus”, idiot? Do you have any credible evidence to indicate this; or think this, other than your own ideological and U.S.-jingoistic hatred of China’s political system?

    By the way – China just raised their total official COVID-19 dead count by 1300, or nearly 40%, in ONE DAY, adding some casualties in Wuhan that hadn’t been able to be accurately diagnosed and counted earlier amidst the confusion and emergency conditions. Hardly the behavior of people trying to hide something, or misinform.

    Stupid propagandist bigot.

    • Agree: Realist
    • Replies: @joe2.5
  57. aandrews says:

    “This is what is known in the US military jargon as a “clusterbleep”…”

    Gosh, I remember it differently.

    • LOL: The Grim Joker
  58. Tom Verso says:
    @joe2.5

    The operative concept in this sentence is “Presumably”.
    The intention of my comment is to evaluate the ‘logic’ or ‘rational’ of the Captain’s and Secretary’s decision making.

    I think that the Secretary’s logic was the belief that this ship is in fact ‘protecting the Nation’; therefore, the crew is obliged by the oath they all took when they enlisted to suffer the consequences of there obligation to the Nation … until death.

    I think the logic of the Captain’s decision was fear (panic) and recognizing (even subconsciously) that in reality there was no vital danger to the Nation by taking the ship out of operation. Therefore, there was no reason to put the crew at risk.

    To your point: The fact that the Pentagon and President so quickly agreed with the Captain and pulled the ship out of operations and fired the Secretary implies logically that they too recognize that the ship was in fact not defending against any vital national threat or interest.

  59. @Anonymous

    “Decimate” actually means literally to kill one of ten. This was the punishment inflicted on mutinous or cowardly legions in the Roman army: one man in ten would be picked at random and executed.

    The term does not mean “total destruction” but exactly the opposite.

    • Replies: @The Grim Joker
    , @Hibernian
  60. anon[119] • Disclaimer says:
    @NPleeze

    This fact — refusal to discuss the simplest of equations — is exhibit A of a coordinated effort to create the convenient pandemic.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/17/us/why-epidemiologists-still-dont-know-the-death-rate-for-covid-19.html

    That is from today’s edtion. Just read through that typical display of obfuscation.

    If we had a functioning press, they would have screamed for pervasive random sample testing and reducing the “uncertainty” before committing national suicide.

    But the overt establishment press and (apparently their covert operators in) alt- space insist that instead of discussing a simple equation and its ramifications, we must dwell on matters such as determining whether the virus is natural or not; released from one the biological warfare (aka “BSL-4”) facilities of various genocidal nations (lets face it); and n different recommendations from “experts” on if/when/where/why to wear a face mask.

    The above equation and its importance is not, repeat not, rocket science. Every captain of industry, every usurious bankster, even intelligence sock puppets that play the role of “journalist” in todays’ world; all must have understood this basic simple fact.

  61. Hibernian says:
    @Wielgus

    …a noble and tough female Israeli etc.

    Ziva David, call your office.

    • Replies: @Wielgus
  62. Walter says:

    William Pfaff in 2008 (truthdig) published “Will the US military be the next institution to fail”

    The idea was that when the USSR ended, the forces to destroy the US were set free, as the two empires buttressed one another, and without the other would collapse.

  63. Z-man says:

    Yeah like you said it’s colonial power projection. But as even smaller nations get the armaments the big boat becomes a sitting duck. Even the Zionists don’t want them.
    Speaking of the Jooz I read here on Unz (Philip Giraldi) that we are going to give the Zionists 8 KC-767 tankers. That’s equal to what Italy and Japan have combined!
    That’s a game changer. It will further strengthen the murderous hand of the middle East’s super power, Izrahell.

    • Replies: @Avery
  64. In short the captain was in taking a risk an he knew it.

    As fo the environment, the larger question is why he din’t make a stand for his crew regarding becoming involved with a country bordering China, where the virus was known to be spending. After the fact depending on what article one wants to attend — there was nothing that warranted his sounding the alarm. Th ship should ave been quarantined, medical attention provided aboard and whatever clean up (reasonable and prudent) could have been conducted by section.

    And there was no reason for the Capt to have been subjected to the open berating by anyone.
    That was over the top making a minor situation, a press fiasco.

    —————

    doubling down–

    the mission of the US Navy is to defend the US. It is not a avenue to boost one’s career prospects. Whether at peace or at war – the mission of the defending the country is primary and that process includes civilian authority. The TR provided a great opportunity to study the virus in a close environment and treat it. Service in the military is not a civilian tour of duty. And while the service of the men is more valuable than we treat it —

    it is a service/sacrifice. And it is the utter failure of our political class to comprehend that they are servants as well — they sacrifice for the sake of nation — yet, it is quite apparent, they believe it’s opportunity for self service.

  65. Trump’s latest decision to defund the WHO (to whom the US already owes a ton of money anyway) is arguably his worst act of “international PR seppuku” which will further increase the disgust the USA already inspires worldwide

    Americans are the important people vis a vis how the orangeman is viewed. Who gives a damn what the Russkies, Chinese, or French peoples think?

    Americans reflexively favor America First and give an intellectual middle finger to World Health this or United Nations that.

    Doesn’t saker live in Florida or somewhere in the country he loves to hates?

    Whadda duplicitous dick. Go back to mommy Russia dude.

    • Replies: @Cleburne
  66. Tom Verso says:
    @Realist

    The operative concept in this sentence is “Presumably”. The intention of my comment is to evaluate the ‘logic’ or ‘rational’ of the Captain’s and Secretary’s decision making.

    I think that the Secretary’s logic was that this ship is ‘protecting the Nation’ and therefore the crew are obliged by the oath they all took when they enlisted to suffer the consequences of there obligation to the Nation

    I think the Captain’s fear (panic) and recognized (even subconsciously) that in reality there was no vital danger to the Nation by taking the ship out of operation.

    To your point: The fact that the Pentagon and President so quickly agreed with the Captain and pulled the ship out of operations and fired the Secretary implies that they too recognize that the ship was in fact not defending against any vital national interest.

    The operative concept in this sentence is “Presumably”.
    The intention of my comment is to evaluate the ‘logic’ or ‘rational’ of the Captain’s and Secretary’s decision making.

    I think that the Secretary’s logic was the belief that this ship is in fact ‘protecting the Nation’; therefore, the crew is obliged by the oath they all took when they enlisted to suffer the consequences of there obligation to the Nation … until death.
    I think the logic of the Captain’s decision was fear (panic) and recognizing (even subconsciously) that in reality there was no vital danger to the Nation by taking the ship out of operation. Therefore, there was no reason to put the crew at risk.

    To your point: The fact that the Pentagon and President so quickly agreed with the Captain and pulled the ship out of operations and fired the Secretary implies logically that they too recognize that the ship was in fact not defending against any vital national threat or interest.

    • Replies: @Realist
  67. Tom Verso says:
    @Crazy Horse

    The operative concept in this sentence is “Presumably”. The intention of my comment is to evaluate the ‘logic’ or ‘rational’ of the Captain’s and Secretary’s decision making.

    I think that the Secretary’s logic was that this ship is ‘protecting the Nation’ and therefore the crew are obliged by the oath they all took when they enlisted to suffer the consequences of there obligation to the Nation

    I think the Captain’s fear (panic) and recognized (even subconsciously) that in reality there was no vital danger to the Nation by taking the ship out of operation.

    To your point: The fact that the Pentagon and President so quickly agreed with the Captain and pulled the ship out of operations and fired the Secretary implies that they too recognize that the ship was in fact not defending against any vital national interest.

    The operative concept in this sentence is “Presumably”.
    The intention of my comment is to evaluate the ‘logic’ or ‘rational’ of the Captain’s and Secretary’s decision making.

    I think that the Secretary’s logic was the belief that this ship is in fact ‘protecting the Nation’; therefore, the crew is obliged by the oath they all took when they enlisted to suffer the consequences of there obligation to the Nation … until death.

    I think the logic of the Captain’s decision was fear (panic) and recognizing (even subconsciously) that in reality there was no vital danger to the Nation by taking the ship out of operation. Therefore, there was no reason to put the crew at risk.

    To your point: The fact that the Pentagon and President so quickly agreed with the Captain and pulled the ship out of operations and fired the Secretary implies logically that they too recognize that the ship was in fact not defending against any vital national threat or interest.

  68. This coronavirus is just another form of the flu that is being used by the NWO elites to wreck the America economy and is in fact the elites UN Agenda 2030 in action, anyone interested can google and read it.

  69. FB says: • Website
    @EliteCommInc.

    What ‘hypersonic’ missiles does the US have, as you claim…?

    Go ahead and name one, so I can go and read all about it…LOL

    • Replies: @Alfa158
  70. @Alfred

    Excellent points. The physical and mental fitness in our military is not what it used to be and I wonder, if with such small percentages affected the whole enterprise gets shut down, then what happens if the ship suffers a strike and 20% of the crew get taken out. Will they surrender ? I remember while in training I ate too much and vomited in a garbage can. I was made to PT with the can and then clean it, wash it and dry it to a mirror shine. These days a trainee who finds a green crust in his nose could shut down an entire base with everyone masked and sent to bed. I dont know, if we were ever to come up in a real confrontation with the Chinese or Russians if we will be able to hold our own. I wonder, if the whole nation is in a state of uncontrolled hysteria over Corona deaths so far, will we lose our minds if a war finishes off 1M, 10M ?

  71. @Observator

    You are correct and if I may add, the counting created sheer terror as each man assembled would also be counting and using his peripheral vision to estimate whether the count would end with him and of course be the end of him. Great historical point on your part !

  72. Cleburne says:
    @Mick Jagger gathers no mosque

    Well, since you asked, here is from the Great Geostrategist’s web site, with its Borat-tier design:

    If the USA are so bad, why am I here? Does my presence here not prove that the USA are actually great? Am I not a hypocrite for criticizing a political system while at the same time benefiting from it? Could it be that I relocated to Florida to be closer to CENTCOM in Tampa or even the CIA in Virgina?

    I used to ignore these primitive personal attacks as beneath contempt but now I am coming to the conclusion that such idiocy should be pointed out to those questioners to remind them that the real world is very different from what they imagine. And in this spirit, let me explain why I live in the USA.

    Simply put, it is my legal right. I am a Swiss citizen married to a US citizen. When I married my wife she got a “C Permit” in Switzerland and the USA gave me a “Green Card”. These two countries have an agreement, а contract, if you want, which allows US nationals married to a Swiss national to live in Switzerland and a Swiss national married to a US national to live in the USA. This agreement is similar to say, airlines sharing passenger seats or hotels sharing rooms. To make my point eve simpler: I live in the USA because the US government decided that it would be in the interest of the American people to have such an agreement with Switzerland. You could also say that it is my wife’s right to have her husband with her while living in her own country.

    ANd besides, it’s none of your business:

    So now it is my turn to ask a question: what in the world makes you ask such an utterly irrelevant question?

    Why “irrelevant,” Mr Saker? Your LARPs would be easier to take seriously if they were bylined Belgrade rather than Boca Raton.

    Unz is one of my favorite sites, between Ron’s writing, Giraldi, Atzmon, Shamir and most of the other guys, but Mr Saker isn’t much above comic relief, although I prefer his cheesy web site for the added yuks.

  73. Maybe it’s all a scam. Maybe the carriers are in port making ready for our war with China or some other God forsaken place. Just say’n.

  74. Avery says:
    @Z-man

    { But as even smaller nations get the armaments the big boat becomes a sitting duck.}

    That’s kinda the idea: US dangles the ships at the intended target – victim – of its aggression, hoping they’d take the bait and attack, preferably sink, a USN ship. That will give the warmongers the excuse (“justification”), to massively attack the “aggressor”.

    As long as the target cannot retaliate with nukes, then carpet bombing can begin.

    US has been provoking Iranians in the Persian Gulf for years, hoping Iranians would sink a major US Navy ship. Iran so far has not obliged.

    And this is nothing new for US: “Remember the Main” ?.
    The US navy ship blew up – mysteriously – and that was all US needed to go to war with Spain, and eject it from Cuba.
    Viet Nam was another: the Maddox, supposedly attacked by Vietnamese patrol boats, was the “justification” US warmongers needed to go to war there.

    US Navy ships and personnel are considered expendable commodities – to be used to further the interests of The Empire.

    • Replies: @Alfred
  75. FB says: • Website
    @Pandour

    Your story is mostly bullshit…

    Sablin never planned to sail to Sweden, nor to seek asylum…

    The plan was to sail to Leningrad…also the ship was never bombed and no one was killed or injured in the interception, which did include strafing from aircraft…

    Also Sablin was NOT the captain, he was the political officer [commissar]…the captain was lured below deck and locked up…

    The 15 remaining officers took a vote on the plan and seven voted against and were locked up with the captain…one that voted for the mutiny was clearly playing possum, because he left the ship to sound the alarm…

    The purpose of the protest was that Brezhnev was ‘betraying’ communism…not surprising from a commissar…

    Only Sablin was convicted of treason and executed…another officer served eight years in jail…no other crew member was charged…

    Spare us your illiterate shiptar stories…and learn some punctuation…

    • Replies: @Pandour
  76. Realist says:
    @Tom Verso

    I think that the Secretary’s logic was that this ship is ‘protecting the Nation’ and therefore the crew are obliged by the oath they all took when they enlisted to suffer the consequences of there obligation to the Nation

    First you used the word logic to describe the Secretary’s action…logic in no way or form was used by the Secretary. The Secretary is a government employee and logic is rarely if ever used by government employees.
    My comment was not necessary directed at you just anybody that would presume that ship was protecting the nation.. There is no scenario where an aircraft carrier could protect a nation…their purpose is to project power and subjugation in the pursuit of hegemony.

  77. @Biff

    Biff, I find the vast majority of commentators on this site to be thoughtful, insightful, logical. However there are some who feel that having a key board and an internet connection somehow automatically makes them masters of reason. The problem is that if those things rattling around in their noggin are rubbish what comes out on the keyboard will be trash. Another of these confused noodles you will find on this site is “Jedi Night”.

    So you say ” Human Evolution is barely out of the jungle”. I could not agree more. I would even go so far as to say “NO SHIT”. The thought that anyone believes bureaucrats act for the benefit of others shows not only a lack of thought but immaturity and no real understanding as to how this world works. Even on an individual and family business, once an individual or group feel their interests are threatened my experience is they resort to “me first” and family and friends are thrown under the bus.

    Others see things differently and I envy them to tell the truth. It must be liberating to be an Alice in Wonderland coming out of a long coma. Like the lunatics in an asylum these folks are unable to think and so have solved all their problems …and those of the rest of the world!

  78. Wielgus says:
    @Hibernian

    I was being ironic, I enjoyed watching that show but it was laughably propagandistic. Of course an Israeli character was well-presented, a Russian villainous etc.

  79. MLK says:
    @Alfred

    As has been the case so many times since he’s taken the oath I’ve stopped counting, if you simply listen to the POTUS you will learn enough to fill in the blanks:

    https://www.stripes.com/news/pacific/uss-theodore-roosevelt-s-fateful-vietnam-port-call-had-blessing-of-pacific-s-highest-commanders-1.626103

    Oh, and word to the wise, try to cut down on your exclamation points. They’re embarrassing even for someone for whom English is a second language.

  80. IronForge says:

    The Saker is an Ex- CHE Army Intel Dweeb UNQUALIFIED to Comment about Major Navies.

    1st Paragraph exposes his Failure.

    I’m an ex-US Naval Officer who grew up in and Served In the Front Lines of the Cold War.

    My Late Father Served his 40+Years in the Navy from 1941 Onwards to the Mid 80s.

    Unz.com, do get a Veterans of Major Navies to Write this Subject.

    Cozier Buttocked Up by making Alleged Port Calls in VNM during the Early Stages of this Pandemic. He and the CBG should have remained At Sea in NBC Warfare Preps and NEVER leaked to the Press. Crew Augmentations/Replacements could have been made to keep the CBG At Sea.

    Deployed CBGs are supposed to be at the Ready; and unlike Cozier’s Naivet

    • Replies: @IronForge
    , @The Grim Joker
  81. IronForge says:
    @IronForge

    Timed out on the Edit.

    The USA are At War or in Conflict with the PRK, ISIL, and Others.

    Those CBGs are Vulnerable In Port like the way they are now; and need to be At Sea.

  82. WHAT says:
    @04398436986

    >literal shit-tier NED propaganda as some kind of counterargument

    You work for Saker or something?

  83. @NPleeze

    That is the equation we need to follow to know the exact rate of death from the Covid-19 virus. One little correction for this equation is: (Number of Positively Tested that Died / Number of Positively Tested) x 100 = True Percent of Casualties from the Covid-19 virus.

    • Replies: @NPleeze
    , @Donald A Thomson
  84. I am very disappointed that the US Navy did not order the Roosevelt to stay at sea and to stay operational throughout the outbreak. It would have been a good test of the intestinal fortitude of the crew, and the combat worthiness of the carrier, through stressful conditions that would be less than a fire and a whole lot less than an attack.

    Captain Crozier is a “people person” more than a combat commander. When a carrier deploys it is expected to be “at war”. That’s why they launch and recover aircraft in all but the most extreme conditions. That’s why their air defenses and submarine defenses are on alert at all times.

    Contagions have swept ships’ crews at various times throughout history. Eventually, the crew would acquire immunity to the disease. Even if there were a mortality rate of 10%, the ship should still be operational.

    The world would have learned a lot more about COVID-19 and a lot faster if the Navy carried on.

    I think this all comes down to the feminization of combat units in the US Army and Navy.

    I remember listening to a presentation by Admiral Hyman Rickover in the 1960s to a committee in the US Congress. (He is regarded as the “Father of the US Nuclear Navy” and a submariner to the extreme.)

    Admiral Rickover confidently proclaimed that his submarines could sink the entire American carrier fleet in a matter of days. Not one of the Congressman challenged his assertion. (To the best of my recollection, no one -not even President Kennedy- would challenge Rickover when it came to naval matters. He had a commanding presence about him and men of all ranks deferred to him.)

    Still the US Navy continued to rely on the aircraft carrier as its primary combat vessel. They had no choice. Even today, the most effective weapon available to the United States for force projection remains the aircraft carrier. The Chinese know it; and the Russians know it. That’s why their navies are focused on carrier destruction rather than force projection by their own forces.

    Back in 1970, a Navy captain told a few young officers of which I was one, that in a war with the Soviet Union, the United States expected to lose 3 to 6 carriers (depending whether it was a surprise attack or one which had been anticipated). But, after a few very intense weeks of aerial and naval combat, the Soviet navy would be utterly destroyed.

    It would not surprise me, if our current naval commanders expect the same outcome.

    • Agree: Alfred
    • Replies: @NPleeze
  85. @EliteCommInc.

    I agree with your comments in general. However, I don’t think that any ship today can continue combat operations with losses of 30% or more these days. Skills are too diverse and specialized.

    The only time in our naval history that the United States engaged in total way against a naval peer was WW II against Japan. The US Navy could not sail into Suruga and Tokyo Bay any time during the first 2 years of the war. It could have been catastrophic. The Navy engaged Japanese forces on the periphery and worked their way toward the main islands. In fact, apart from a few daring submarines, the US Navy stayed away from Japanese coastal waters until the war was nearly over.

    We should expect our fleet to approach engagement with the PLAN or Russia’s Northern or Pacific fleets in a similar manner, should it come to war.

  86. @Ship Track

    I don’t think that should make any difference. I did not detect any criticism of Israel in Saker’s essay.

    I don’t know why this essay prompted criticism of Israel.

    But smearing Russia over its renewed emphasis on Christianity is just as pointless and out of place.

  87. @davidgmillsatty

    Lots of übermenschen around Asia, where all countries are doing *way* better than the US or NATO.

  88. joe2.5 says:
    @NPleeze

    But then, according to all figures (right now looking at worldometers), the “number tested per million population” seems in the same range in Germany, Spain and Italy, with strikingly different mortality figures. Agreed, it’s double that of the US, but the huge variation among US states would make up for that. So the problem lies somewhere else.

    • Replies: @Alfred
    , @NPleeze
  89. Agent76 says:

    Apr 15, 2020 Healthcare Workers Furloughed From Empty Hospitals

    • Replies: @Ship Track
  90. The standing ovation shows that this not the naval force of “the stiff upper lip” but a wishy washy one singing kumbayas … God help us!

  91. joe2.5 says:
    @Parbes

    China just raised their total official COVID-19 dead count by 1300, or nearly 40%, in ONE DAY, adding some casualties in Wuhan that hadn’t been able to be accurately diagnosed and counted earlier amidst the confusion and emergency conditions.

    Exactly. And this, now, gives us a fair estimate of the disease mortality, being practically the only spot where the evaluation has now been completed, by a healthcare administration that has just proved to be supremely competent.
    So let’s look at it: approximately 50,000 infected in Wubei, most all having run their course, with approximately 4,000 deaths. That gives us an actual death rate of 8%. Try comparing to any seasonal flu! In fact, percentages should be revised steeply upwards for countries with average population age that’s substantially higher than China, like Italy etc.

    • Replies: @Realist
  92. @IronForge

    Damned right. I think of a soldier with a headache, in a fire fight, who lays back “incapacitated”. Who wants to be next to a guy like that ? So what would happen if at that very moment the Navy ship had come under attack or experienced some other disaster? Would they have turned tail and run to the nearest port or stayed and fought ? And if they stayed and fought would the fellows with the “virus” have stayed in their bunks or done whatever they could to assist. No matter how “ill” however defined on a personal level, there is always an extra effort to be made. I think if I remember correctly, that is why the DI pushes recruits to their limit and beyond so that when one feels no more can be endured training reminds us there is still a vast untapped reserve of effort. Great clarification on you, it was very much appreciated.

    • Agree: Hibernian
    • Replies: @The Grim Joker
  93. They say the Generals & Admirals are always fighting the last war. This certainly seems true for aircraft carriers, as they’ve been effectively obsolete in peer to peer combat for at least 20 years. You’d think the virus would be the final nail in the coffin on these white elephants, but keep in mind these things are government jobs programs and indirect Wall Street subsidies. So we will continue to build these big targets for the foreseeable future. It’s really sad, if we had spent just 5% of the defense budget to prepare for the inevitable pandemic that so many scientist said was not if but when how much better prepared we might have been……

  94. “I agree with your comments in general. However, I don’t think that any ship today can continue combat operations with losses of 30% or more these days. Skills are too diverse and specialized.”

    I have read two articles on this issue. Both at TAC and both had varying degrees of who many were infected. In ether case, The choices made by leadership onboard and off seem odd to me. I am unclear how much cross training goes on in the navy especially on board a carrier with it high tech systems. But this I am sure of

    1. carriers of some manner still serve a purpose

    2. the matter sounds like political drama more than management oriented.

  95. @Alfred

    Any soldier’s death is sacrifice we honor. But if the military is so soft that the illness of a few hundred men on a warship and a single death are enough to cause a major alarm and controversy, we are done for as a military power for all practical purposes. Acceptability of death and privations is a major, if not the most important factor in deciding who wins and loses. The high tech crap is fine but if you can’t invade and hold territory and fight and die on the ground, eventually you get pushed back and defeated. If the Chinese ever have to fight another serious war, don’t expect them to wince at losing millions to win. Or North Koreans. The Russians are resilient like that too when invaded. 50,000 body bags during the Viet Nam War was all the US could handle before ceding over that colony, and many of those boys were sons of WW2 vets who had some fighting spirit. Don’t expect the millenials and PC commissars in today’s US service to look much better in action than the French in 1940.

    • Agree: bomag
    • Replies: @Avery
  96. Alfred says:
    @Avery

    As long as the target cannot retaliate with nukes, then carpet bombing can begin.

    Absolutely correct. And that is why a bunch of USN sailors ended up due to a “navigational error” in Iran’s territorial waters and were arrested. The Iranians returned them intact soon after. The USN sailors had the shits when they realized that they were set up to be the bait.

    Iran Releases 10 Captured U.S. Navy Sailors

    Captured American sailor seen crying in video, pictures published on Iran state TV

  97. Truth3 says:

    So called Saker (Faker) hates the Truth.

    I know this personally.

    Right, Faker?

    Bet you won’t let this post go up… or the ones that might follow.

    Right, Faker?

    POS Gatekeeper fraud tool of the CIA & Mossad.

  98. @Agent76

    Isn’t if funny how none of the talking heads wants to talk about the number of deaths directly linked to shutting down hospitals for other medical emergencies. Its almost as if they want people with other emergencies to die just so they can blame it on Covid…

    • Agree: Alfred
  99. Aircraft carriers are dinosaurs and only good for projecting air power on defenseless states, while in real war with a real power like Russia, they would only last for the time a missile takes to reach them.

    However they are a good way to piss off taxpayers money on the MIC.

  100. Avery says:
    @Niebelheim

    { if you can’t invade and hold territory}
    {The Russians are resilient like that too when invaded*}
    {50,000 body bags during the Viet Nam War was all the US could handle}

    Moral of the story: Don’t invade.
    Stay and fight for your own land/country, if need be.

    btw: while the boys were fighting 1,000s of miles from home in Viet Nam, their leaders back home were opening the country’s gates wide open to all comers, no questions asked.

    _________________________________________________
    * Soviets (Russians) couldn’t handle less than 50,000 body bags (officially around 10,000) before they had had enough and left Afghanistan.

    • Replies: @Niebelheim
  101. Alfred says:
    @joe2.5

    So the problem lies somewhere else

    The problem is that anyone with a positive test, regardless of how he died, is treated as a victim of Covid-19.

    Here are the latest orders to doctors by Bill Gates’ CDC

    And here are the “donations” of Bill Gates. The big one at the top ($3.152bn) is for this vaccine project to get us all chipped so that we can be checked before entering a store or boarding a plane. The second biggest item is the WHO ($1.535bn)

    • Replies: @joe2.5
  102. Spanky says:
    @Realist

    Not a chance…aircraft carriers are one of the greatest tools in the arsenal for US world hegemony. They allow the US to project power all over the planet. — Realist

    Well, we fully agree up to this point… They allow the US to project power all over the planet against lesser capable adversaries.

    Navy brass has known since at least the 1970s (personal observation) that carriers (and every other surface ship) were vulnerable to quiet second generation nuclear submarines and capable torpedoes. In ASW exercises off the Florida east coast in 1978 a boomer was able to surface practically under the Ranger’s flight deck without being detected by her ASW escorts and aircraft. In many other such ASW exercises over the years, off both the east and west coasts, the results were most often the same. Not to mention advanced and very quiet diesel-electric boats operating in littoral waters, a tough conventional sonar environment.

    And missiles? Massed missile attacks utilizing a coordinated “time on top” (all missiles arrive on target more or less simultaneously) are impossible to completely defend against — just saturate the Ageis defense systems and a sizable fraction will always get through. And this is without considering electronic warfare countermeasures such as those Russia demonstrated in the Black Sea against an Ageis destroyer several years ago.

    So yeah, they’ll keep carriers because they are useful for gunboat diplomacy against lesser adversaries, but in any real fight against as capable adversaries they become serious liabilities. Or as bubbleheads say, there are only two types of ships sailing the world’s oceans — submarines and targets.

    And as far as comments about Capt. Crozier by other posters… Sounds like he had conflicting orders and advice. Am not going to second guess his decision, he obviously did what he thought to be the right thing. Navy captains are over-achievers and usually completely dedicated to their profession and the Navy — one will not jeopardize their career lightly. Considering that the acting Navy Secretary whom relieved him of command was fired shortly thereafter suggests something else was in play.

    And say what you will about his crew’s demonstration as he departed — without their loyalty and support operating any system as complex as a nuclear-powered carrier or sub becomes orders of magnitude more difficult and less efficient. Consistently poor morale aboard is something noted, and held against, a commander.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    , @Realist
  103. Hibernian says:
    @Observator

    Exactly the opposite would mean executing nobody.

  104. A123 says:

    A single failed Captain is hardly going to change U.S. force structure. China is still ramping up its own Supercarrier program, so it is pretty obvious that The Saker is wrong (again).

    During active hostilities, the Task Force could have continued combat operations. Most of the crew was infected and had no symptoms (1)

    The Navy specified that 60% of the Roosevelt’s positive cases “so far have not shown symptoms”.

    This is likely due the fact that enlisted military ranks tend to be already very healthy individuals in their 20’s and early 30’s. The carrier crew also provides a key active case study given the isolation of nearly 5,000 people apart from broader society, and the young, fit demographic.

    PEACE 😷
    _______

    (1) https://www.zerohedge.com/health/navy-reports-alarming-stealth-transmission-rate-60-infected-carrier-crew-symptom-free

    • Agree: anachronism
  105. sally says:
    @davidgmillsatty

    Germany is one nation in the 206 nation state system what do you expect but that its authorities reporting is in line with the dictates of those who control the NSS? How many biolabls exist in Germany, how many German researchers collaborate with other nations states?

    My question is what do the German people have to say about this nation state distributed disinformation weaponized Covid-19.. ? Have the figured out yet, that the nation state system caused this problem. It one nation were not against another nation then neither would likely have developed natures molecular biology into weapons designed to take out the others resources.

    More and more, it is becoming apparent the problem for humanity is the nation state system and the leaders that man its 206 or so member nations. The NSS is a grid that captures control of 8 billion humans , Each nation is a cell in the grid, and each cell is divided again and again into more and yet smaller grids right down to the level of the family and the individual. No one can be trusted with that much control; especially those that are allowed to operate in complete secrecy and to be protected by fake propaganda?

    There is No way a top down led system of government can ever operate as honest non corrupt member of human society.. the top levels of the nations are the settling places for the world’s worst kind of humans, often unfit for peaceful earthly existence.. always attracting to the top the most anti-human, blatant lying members of our societies, who can only realize their personal dreams by climbing into positions of power and authority and using them to manipulate humanity and to place in its instruments systems that make private profit fit their personal idea of fair. Show me a high level politician or a bureaucrat and I will show you a misfit.. often corrupt.. and rarely responding to human needs.

  106. Hibernian says:
    @Spanky

    Considering that the acting Navy Secretary whom relieved him of command was fired shortly thereafter suggests something else was in play.

    That was done because the Secretary was as big a fool, in his own way, as the Captain was in his. The Secretary ran down the Captain, a still serving very senior officer, in front of an assembly of 5000 sailors 95%+ of whom were enlisted or junior officers. The firing of the Secretary in no way vindicates the captain.

    • Replies: @Spanky
  107. Realist says:
    @Spanky

    So yeah, they’ll keep carriers because they are useful for gunboat diplomacy against lesser adversaries, but in any real fight against as capable adversaries they become serious liabilities.

    Agreed.

  108. TG says:
    @alex in San Jose AKA Digital Detroit

    “I think the carrier captain deserves no less than a court-martial, hard time, etc. Since keelhauling is no longer in vogue.”

    Hm. Well indeed, it is certainly contrary to military team spirit for any underling to question a superior. Even though the skipper in question did not raise his criticism publicly, the simple fact is that he did raise a criticism, which them made it possible to be leaked, which embarrassed his superiors.

    So in WWI when butchers like Haig were sending his men ‘over the top’ in pointless frontal assaults, what if his subordinate officers had been free to levy criticism? Why, the allies might have had to stop these pointless attacks, and Haig might not have been able to retire after the war to widespread acclaim as a hero and a military genius! And what a tragedy that would have been.

    And if all those officers involved in the pointless ‘nation building’ in places like Afghanistan and Iraq etc. were voicing active criticism instead of just going along to get along, why, we might not be looking at our third decade of fighting those utterly pointless wars! And that just can’t be allowed.

    I could go on. We give military aid to Pakistan, which they then use to support insurgents fighting our troops, but we can’t say anything about that because it would be demoralizing and would make our leaders like like idiots. So we just have to continue to give aid to Pakistan, and then fight their proxies! It’s not like we have a choice, right?

    No, the military chain of command simply requires a total acceptance of orders from superiors no matter how stupid they are, or otherwise, how will stupid orders be carried out? And how will stupid commanders be celebrated as heroes and retire to lucrative contracts in the defense industry? Answer me that, all you people supporting the captain of this aircraft carrier, answer me that!

    • Agree: Biff
    • Thanks: FB
  109. We don’t need to contemplate the end of the US carrier fleet.

    Israel will instruct us when the time comes.

  110. @The Grim Joker

    Sorry Iron Forge, my last sentence should have read “great clarification on your part, it was very much appreciated”

  111. @sally

    There is a jackass commentator “Jedi Night” on this site. I hope he read your comment because he is such an imbecile he believes politicians and bureaucrats are the male equivalent of Mother Teresa or even Mother Teresa reincarnated and will always be there not to look out for their own agendas but to make sure we are comfortable and taken care of.

    While this idiot is in a minority position here on this site, the fact is there are a lot of people in the general population who say well “Mr. Joe Politician-Bureaucrat is good looking, well groomed, nice teeth, expensive clothes and a winning smile and look, he is talking to us with his new born baby in his arms. Surely someone like that could only be a good man”. These folks drink the Kool Aid and believe it is some rare nectar. Too late they realize it was not even Kool Aid but liquid poison applied in small doses.

    I think the most terrible thing any person can do is build up an illusion in their mind because when reality hits the consequences are most times fatal or puts the person in a position where fatal consequences cannot then be avoided. The disillusion and accompanying punishment are often more painful than continually casting a cynical and jaundiced eye on the people and events around us.

  112. NPleeze says:
    @joe2.5

    You need to adjust for the number positive and the number infected.

    Let me make a little table to illustrated (total_tested is tested/million * population and sick_rate is total sick divided by total tested):

    COUNTRY..TESTS/MM..POPULATION..NO_TESTS..TOT_SICK..SICK_RATE
    Germany………..20,629…..83,832,481….1,729,380…..138,497……..8.00%
    Spain…………….19,896…..46,771,940…….930,575…..188,068……20.21%
    Italy……………….20,577……60,488,373….1,244,669….172,434…….13.85%

    In other words, Germany tested 1,590,883 non-positive people. By contrast, Italy tested 1,072,235 non-positive people.

    But this also doesn’t give the whole story (as even if you adjust for that, the death rates are still wildly at odds). Well let’s do the above table using total dead versus total sick. Why? Because it gives another indication of the type of people being tested. Germany could have, hypothetically, picked up a lot of “sick” people by simple random testing, which simply demonstrates that the disease is very widespread in the country, i.e., it is testing a lot of very mildly sick and even asymptomatic people.

    Skipping the second and third columns:

    COUNTRY..NO_TESTS..TOT_SICK..SICK_RATE..TOT_DEAD..DEATH_RATE
    Germany….1,729,380…..138,497……..8.00%……….4,203…………0.24%
    Spain…………930,575…..188,068…….20.21%…….19,613…………2.11%
    Italy…………1,244,669…..172,434…….13.85%……..22,745………..1.82%

    So there are two ways to interpret this: assuming the testing is done consistently (as well, of course, that the causes of death are assigned consistently and the test accuracy is consistent, etc.), you can either conclude (1) the death rate is higher in Italy and Spain due to genetic factors or different virus strains (medical care would not explain the very large difference), or (2) Germany is testing randomly and getting a lot of positives from cases Spain and Italy wouldn’t even test (and if they did, their death rates would drop precipitously).

    Support for hypothesis number 2: Germany has roadside testing, where you can get a swab taken as you drive by. Italy and Spain may be testing similar numbers, but they are biased to test the sick and very sick.

    Frankly there is not enough data to make any meaningful comparisons. There is no consensus on who is critical, or of how you conclude someone died of COVID-19.

    The best way to really compare is to have each country conduct a large random sample (perhaps 1% of the population, randomly selected) and find out the true contagion rates, and the, assuming one can agree on cause of death, calculating the death rates. But as nobody has done the country-wide random testing, this data is not available, which works to the benefit of the hysteria-creators.

    • Replies: @joe2.5
  113. NPleeze says:
    @CyrusTheGreat

    Actually if you want to go that route, that needs some corrections:

    (Number Died From COVID-19 / Number Exposed To COVID-19) x 100 = True Percent of Casualties from the Covid-19 virus

    There are many who will be exposed and fight it off before the virus can be detected using the PCR testing or even before virus-specific antibodies are produced.

    And we have one such case – the Diamond Princess – a very old population with a death rate of 0.25%.

    And the numerator needs to be “From”, not “With”, as is currently done. A possible way to get at that is to look at excess monthly deaths compared to the previous 5-6 years. Anybody doing that?

    • Replies: @joe2.5
  114. @Avery

    You’re right that the will to fight for one’s own adds backbone. But there are exceptions on either side of that proposition – the weak-kneed defenders who allow themselves to get overrun and surrender without much resistance, and motivated invaders with the will power to conquer or die trying. My point squares with yours about protecting our frontiers. Paper tigers of all people shouldn’t be picking fights on other people’s turf.

  115. @Pandour

    There was a joke going round the Soviet Union in the 1960s-How can you tell a sailor from the Baltic Fleet-he glows in the dark

    There never was such joke in the Soviet Union for a simple reason that Twice Red Banner Baltic Fleet NEVER had or operated any nuclear powered submarines in its history. So, the sailor from Baltic Fleet could never “glow in the dark”, due to absence of any radiating material. ALL nuclear-powered submarines of the Soviet (now Russian) Navy were concentrated on the Northern and Pacific Fleets. But nice try.

    • Replies: @Pandour
  116. NPleeze says:
    @anachronism

    Back in 1970, a Navy captain told a few young officers of which I was one, that in a war with the Soviet Union, the United States expected to lose 3 to 6 carriers (depending whether it was a surprise attack or one which had been anticipated).

    LOL, because every single commander has always accurately predicted a battles’ outcome to his troops.

    There is no limit to foolishness.

    Even today, the most effective weapon available to the United States for force projection remains the aircraft carrier. The Chinese know it; and the Russians know it. That’s why their navies are focused on carrier destruction rather than force projection by their own forces.

    Or, more logically, they are focused on defense, which is what every country should be, versus US’ focus on aggressive offense, which no country should be. Everyone knows who is the Global Tyrant that mass murders millions for empire while whole-heartedly supporting the most horrible dictatorships (such as Saudi Barbaria and ZioNazi Israel) on the planet.

  117. Spanky says:
    @Hibernian

    I don’t know how many senior Navy captains you know personally but I’ve known a few, some quite well. Fool is not a word I would choose to describe them either individually or as a group, although sum-bitch is one I’ve used often. They rose to the top in an extremely competitive and unforgiving meritocracy, especially for those qualified to command nuclear powered vessels carrying nuclear weapons.

    Capt. Crozier had his reasons, acted as he thought best and accepted the consequences. Nothing either you or I say will shed much light upon his reasoning. I am willing to differ to his on-the-deck, at-the-moment decision. But apparently you are playing arm-chair admiral by second-guessing and condemning his decision after the fact because it does not agree with your beliefs about the coronavirus’ nature.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    , @old rusty nail
  118. lysias says:
    @TG

    Groton and San Diego are almost certainly more infected than Da Nang. How could our subs be uninfected?

    Do a Google search on the USS Tennessee. You may be surprised by what you learn.

  119. lysias says:
    @alex in San Jose AKA Digital Detroit

    Our sailors thought kamikazes were no laughing matter.

  120. joe2.5 says:
    @NPleeze

    Sure, it may be any of the factors you suggest plus some others I can think of — essentially though the most probable is selection bias.

    There are a few whole-town testing results in small towns with infection rate apparently average for their country, and it seems to be (at peak time?) ard 15%.

    • Replies: @NPleeze
  121. joe2.5 says:
    @Alfred

    The reporting is of course based on the documentation of the specific 19 virus in those deceased from any immediate causes, and that is not strictly the same as cause of death. Virus-originated deaths do not as a rule have the infection as immediate cause, though, as a cautious physician would see it as a very probable cause only in the presence of the typical, unmistakable pneumonia picture (which is not the only way the viral infection kills.)

    However, there is a satisfactory method to narrow down the estimate, based on place- and age-specific excess death numbers. These are now becoming available and seem to be a 6-8-fold of the usual. At that point, even without sitting down to do exact calculations, one might consider the difference between the deaths with virus and those from virus as not critical. Also, in the less frequent cases of patients under age 65 or so with rather atypical conditions surrounding the death and a positive coronavirus 19 test, erring on the side of coronavirus 19 infection is probably correct.

  122. Al Liguori says: • Website
    @04398436986

    Truth is no “libel.” “Only Jews are human” is a fundamental precept of Judaism. See Bava Metzia 114b http://judaism.is/who-is-human.html

  123. Scuse me if missed the memo, but…

    How is it known that asymptomatic coronavirus positives will remain asymptomatic?

  124. joe2.5 says:
    @NPleeze

    PS. We now have a nibble for an effective observed death rate.

    With the epidemic wave practically concluded and the reporting of all cases of all sources apparently mopped up, the Wubei Province updated its counts, adding a few to the total number of sick patients and some 1,300 to that of the dead; the definitions read as being similar, ie testing plus high clinical probability. Reported by a healthcare authority that just demonstrated superior efficiency and reliability so far. So, cases around 50,000 and deaths around 4,000. Effective observed death rate 8%, essentially for symptomatic patients — way above any seasonal flu or cold.

    When extrapolating to Italy, Germany, etc., of course we should revise it up, the population in those countries being on the average older than in China.

    • Replies: @NPleeze
    , @Alfred
  125. @Really No Shit

    “The standing ovation shows that this not the naval force of “the stiff upper lip”

    SB “The standing ovulation shows that this not the naval force of “the stiff upper lip”.

    You haven’t been keeping up with personnel changes in the Navy (These ships can’t be expected to just crash themselves you know)

  126. NPleeze says:
    @joe2.5

    There are a few whole-town testing results in small towns with infection rate apparently average for their country, and it seems to be (at peak time?) ard 15%.

    That’s fairly consistent with the Diamond Princess 20% infection rate. (The rest may also be infected, the tests just don’t pick it up, most likely because their viral load is too low because the immune system is effectively fighting it without antibodies.)

  127. NPleeze says:
    @joe2.5

    cases around 50,000

    First of all their official figures are 82,367 infected and 3,342 dead, yielding a false “death rate” of 4.06%.

    But unless they have conducted random testing there is no way to know that – and the random testing has to be with a reliable method, not the PCR method. Typically the reliable method involves placing the virus in a petri dish with the test subject’s fluids/tissue to see if an infection takes hold. This is even more reliable than testing for antibodies since, as noted, some cells may just be immune (the receptors don’t respond to the virus) or their normal immune-defense system can eliminate the virus before antibodies are produced.

    AFAICT, there is no way whatsoever to substantiate that only 82,000 were exposed to the virus. China doesn’t even seem to report the number of tests it conducted – as far as we know it just tested 82,000 sick folks and nobody else.

    Also interesting, Worldometer tracks global daily deaths (“Daily Deaths of Novel Coronavirus” table) allegedly from COVID-19. That number seems to have peaked on April 14 and has been returning to the 7,000 per day from early April numbers. Compare this to the average of > 150,000 global deaths per day from other causes (a lot of which, no doubt, overlap with the 7,000).

    • Replies: @joe2.5
    , @joe2.5
  128. “And as far as comments about Capt. Crozier by other posters… Sounds like he had conflicting orders and advice. Am not going to second guess his decision, he obviously did what he thought to be the right thing. ‘

    There’s room for doubt here. If he was concerned, he should have made a stand concerning exposure in Vietnam. That is where he should ave made a fuss.

  129. a_german_ says:
    @davidgmillsatty

    Over here, Hamburg, the pathological institute reported that none of the 160+ tested positive died caused by the virus. They are very straight and they see all of them.

    That means not very much because it is the same as in every influenza wave, but it is the same.
    You can test nearly 100 of all deaths herpes positive or a major part on lactose or hair loss.

    You pick the point. You can get total different info by the Berlin institutes subordinated to the Merkel regime. It`s a question of science vs. politics, not Ubermensch. Btw. The III Reich “Arierrasse” had Nordic and Slavic characteristics.

    • Troll: Fuerchtegott
    • Replies: @NPleeze
  130. a_german_ says:
    @Diversity Heretic

    Operational readyness? For what? Bombing helpless civilians in 3rd world countries or being a target for “competitors”?

  131. bluedog says:
    @Diversity Heretic

    You don’t know what transpired (up thru the chain of command) so why post such utter bullshit or did you have nervous fingers with nothing to do.if the U.S was at war and with its record Nam,Iraq and Afghanistan all the carrier forces in the world would’nt save them!!!

  132. bluedog says:
    @joe2.5

    Save your time the idiots,the brainwashed (normal fox viewers who always loves war)) trolls and shills are beyond any form of understanding as they pipe in without any knowledge of what really transpired, but yet they have all the answers. and you wonder what’s wrong with America.well some where along the elders line they sired a generation of idiots, and these are the currant off-spring.!!!!!!

    • Replies: @joe2.5
  133. Alfa158 says:
    @FB

    The US program for hypersonic missiles is still also in the testing phase

    https://www.armscontrol.org/act/2020-04/news/pentagon-tests-hypersonic-glide-body

    The secrecy around the programs is pretty tight so it is hard to be absolutely certain which countries are leading in the race to operationally deploy them.
    Hypersonic missiles are basically just ballistic missiles that, instead of simply guiding to a pre programmed geographic location, are upgraded to actively track and home in on targets, and maneuver to avoid anti-missile systems.
    My money is on the Chinese and Russian programs achieving deployment first because it appears they are just upgrading existing ballistic missiles with the guidance technology. In typical US military procurement fashion the US is building new missiles using radically new hypersonic gliders for the final stage. When every one else shows up for a sports car race with a stripped down Porsche Speedster, the US military shows up with a loaded Cadillac Escalade.

    In any event, whether the US also has hypersonic missiles is not that critical to the military balance. The other guys don’t really use carriers so hypersonic missiles aren’t as important for us. What matters is if the others have them.

    • Replies: @a_german_
    , @FB
  134. joe2.5 says:
    @NPleeze

    Who said “general population” or “infected” or “exposed to the virus” as a denominator? We are talking mortality of symptomatic infection — the rate that medically really counts.

    The criteria here for case count were, as far as I can read, chiefly clinically symptomatic high-probability, mainly tested (Wubei did intensively trace, isolate and test, remember, that was in fact the key to their success along with a mask-wearing, civic-minded population) and the death count criterion similarly required testing positive with the occasional untested but clinically highly typical cases thrown in at day 30 or so and retrospectively adjusted. For Wubei Province, as said, the total of cases was 50,000 and the total deaths 4,000. You’ll find the numbers in almost any report of the new cases added by the final count mop-up in Wubei province (and I apologize profusely if my short-term memory is going south, but I don’t think so…) So it’s an effective, not projected 8%, based on data from the most competent organization so far, whatever the other general population ratios that may be politically or sometimes epidemiologically interesting.

    • Replies: @JamesinNM
    , @NPleeze
  135. joe2.5 says:
    @bluedog

    normal fox viewers who always loves war

    Not necessarily, or without exception: Fox is, after all, the tribune where the last remaining outspoken MSM opponent of war of aggression is still working and not being unseated, thanks to his large viewership. The other corporate soapboxes, mainly serving the so-called opposite wing of the single party, don’t tolerate any at all. “Brainwashed trolls and shills” is a very fitting description, in any case, and I’m afraid it fully comprises us the old geezers — not only our offspring.

    • Replies: @bluedog
  136. An article today by Christine Ng abc news, republished on Yahoo, noted that in Santa Clara County California when screening COVID-19 antibodies from volunteers the doctors discovered there were 48- to 81- times as many people who had been infected as “official” sick people confirmed by PCR test. There are “officially” 1833 cases today in Santa Clara County with 69 deaths, a not insignificant 3.8% “official” fatality rate. However since 48- to 81-times as many people had the virus not requiring hospitalization, the real fatality rate is 0.05- 0.08%, about the same as a bad flu ( and if you only look at hospitalized cases, seasonal flu also has ~5% fatality rate). The focus of the article seemed to be herd immunity; maybe an accurate fatality rate is disinformation?
    As to the Teddy Roosevelt, with six hundred otherwise healthy sailors getting COVID-19, it’s not likely that 30 (5%) would die if untreated, one or two deaths would be consistent with the Santa Clara results. Most sailors probably didn’t even know they were infected. Crozier was obviously spooked by the mass media hysteria (and maybe worried about his own mortality), the NAVY supposedly was already preparing for the aircraft carrier to dock in Guam before he even contacted the media; that contact was unforgivable. Berating Crozier in public was also unforgiveable. The Teddy Roosevelt will likely be an interesting petri dish experiment for epidemiologists and virologists. Recent info claims the infection likely came from arriving flight crews, not their stopover in Da Nang in early March.

    • Thanks: Alfred
    • Replies: @NPleeze
  137. joe2.5 says:
    @NPleeze

    PS. Anyone who knows about infectious disease will tell you that all the refinements you mention concerning test sensitivity may often be important in the individual case or in research. In the midst of an epidemic, and a very highly infectious one at that, a PCR test that identifies a particular type with satisfactory specificity is plenty good enough (a statistical consideration.) Besides, the definition for the Wubei (and in fact China) healthcare org. was not strictly antigen-based, even though they tested more than anyone to date. Relevant was the high probability of the clinically manifest infection or death having been caused by the new coronavirus 19.

    But of course there are a lot of confounding events and criteria that I am not aware of — I don’t make it my job to follow this in detail and all details are still in the process of being evaluated and written up, so the last word will be said perhaps in six months or a year. If, that is, we’re lucky enough by then to be able to get out without risking our elderly lives — notwithstanding the deep idiocy of our greedy politicians.

    • Replies: @NPleeze
  138. Max Payne says:

    The Navy has always suffered from tiny heart syndrome. Aren’t they the most obese branch of the US military? Or was that air force?

    You would think the Navy would take the opportunity to practice their MOPP posture. Nope. Captain Cry-Baby has other plans.

  139. JamesinNM says:

    Destruction of all military, intelligence agencies, mercenaries, corporations, governments, banks, etc serving the Satanic NWO would be perfection.

  140. JamesinNM says:
    @joe2.5

    What if there isn’t a test that actually identifies the man-made covid 19 versus 100s of other viruses and the books are being cooked?

  141. Pft says:

    This is meant to be funny, right? Or is some brain eating virus at work?

  142. NPleeze says:
    @a_german_

    Over here, Hamburg, the pathological institute reported that none of the 160+ tested positive died caused by the virus.

    Sehr interessant. Kannst Du bitte ein Link zur Verfügung stellen?

    • Replies: @a_german_
  143. NPleeze says:
    @joe2.5

    a PCR test that identifies a particular type with satisfactory specificity is plenty good enough (a statistical consideration.)

    And what is that specificity in this case? I have read numerous sources claiming they are wrong 80% of the time. So let’s cut the death rate by 80% – in China, it drops from 4.06% to 0.81%.

    Now, let’s further cut the death rate for those who died from other causes, but had, or were suspected, of having SARS-CoV-2. What is that, another 50%? Now we’re at 0.4%? And, of course, that is from those who are visibly sick with the symptoms, as opposed to overall exposure/infection in the population (as is done, e.g., with flu death rates), so we need to reduce it by, what, another 80%? So we are down to … 0.08%.

    So, sure, if you need to estimate, estimate, but include the fudge factors and don’t pretend you are getting the real deal! That’s fraud!

    Second of all, there is no reason why those tests can’t be done, except for one: they want to continue to deliberately overstate the danger of this virus in order to continue martial law, destroy the middle class, and gain more police state/big brother powers.

    Relevant was the high probability of the clinically manifest infection or death having been caused by the new coronavirus 19.

    You and your fellow SARS-CoV-2 hysterics keep claiming that, but just never have the evidence for it. Even if you make a false statement 1 trillion times, it becomes no truer.

    the last word will be said perhaps in six months or a year

    Hardly, the fraudster tyrants/criminals will simply pat themselves on the back for a job well done. It’ll be 9/11, Iraqi WMDs, Kuwaiti incubator babies, Venezuelan starvation and Syrian gas attacks all over again. Nobody is ever held responsible for their crimes against humanity in the Empire, and no true investigation is ever conducted.

    • Replies: @joe2.5
  144. bjondo says:

    Not sure why they are having a problem.
    Plenty of salt water for washing and gargling.
    Best of all, the radiation.
    All free.

    5 dancing shlomos

  145. @CyrusTheGreat

    That equation only makes sense if everybody has either died or recovered. You can’t even use a comparison of deaths and recovered till then. If you did that now, the USA would have a death rate around 40% because there are so many who die quickly. Even after all are either dead or recovered, you still have to find out how many were never diagnosed. Even the Chinese haven’t got those figures yet so it’s no use expecting them from the Yanks who are still struggling to get their outbreak under control. The Chinese are now concentrating on finding asymptomatic cases and the dead who weren’t diagnosed. A random sample from the population could be tested for antibodies but I’m not confident that would give a reliable estimate when the disease occurs in clusters. Random sample from one cluster area and assume the ratio would be the same everywhere? There’s some of that already but it makes me feel my ignorance. [email protected]

  146. NPleeze says:
    @joe2.5

    We are talking mortality of symptomatic infection — the rate that medically really counts.

    You are fundamentally wrong. The fraudulent “death rate” is being applied to the population at large to come up with estimates of the death tally to justify martial law. In general, you want to know: “if 100% of the population is exposed, how many will die?”, and then refine from there. The problem with your approach is you still have to figure out what percent will be symptomatic, and in any event nobody is using the “death rate” as you are, that’s where the hysteria comes from (fraudulent data).

    Wubei did intensively trace, isolate and test, remember

    Where is the data on the number of tests they conducted?

    civic-minded population

    You mean the subjugated sheep who had no choice, apart from civil disobedience, which I did see quite a bit of in various videos.

    For Wubei Province, as said, the total of cases was 50,000 and the total deaths 4,000

    You keep repeating that lie and ergo there is no point in continuing this discussion. Even the 50,000 and 4,000 are totally off, fabricated bullshit, let alone the issues in data collection and interpretation, which clearly are beyond your capabilities to comprehend.

    Here is a recent Stanford study in California that shows exactly how bogus these numbers are: https://abcnews.go.com/Health/antibody-research-coronavirus-widespread/story?id=70206121

    Stay healthy!

    • Agree: Alfred, Michael888
  147. Hibernian says:
    @Spanky

    I’m a veteran and there are plenty of the fools in the officer corps, not all company grade. Your mileage may vary.

  148. joe2.5 says:
    @NPleeze

    Well, no. First, the internationally available standard antigen test is pretty good enough as to specificity, as tests go. It was used with huge success by the Chinese, the S. Korean, etc. (along with all the measures not implemented here — we’re too good to use Chinese stuff!) The medical (-pharma industry) establishment made a lot of disparaging noises (and even issued a cease-and-desist in WA) so as to justify the absence of testing in the US, both for politics and because the non-profit international test doesn’t make money .
    Second, the general population virus carrier rate and the general infection rate (as determined by random testing) are important epidemiologically but not really for persons at-risk, who are the sick and elderly.
    Third, the full-population death rate and the carrier death rate are both probably as low as you say, because the symptomatic disease is very heavily weighed toward the elderly population, ie an 8% rate for actual symptomatic cases will mean that (in a mainly young population as in China) you’ll have some 0.2% for those under 40, then by gradual increments up to the 15% already reported in the >80 age group.

    Fourth, the owners of the Empire and their medical establishment are doing their best to avoid doing exactly what the Chinese, Taiwanese, HKers and S. Korean did (and told us clearly) and were successful doing. They are in fact sabotaging.

    Fifth, I fully agree that the system, ably assisted by the US + EU medical establishment, is trying its best to weaponize the epidemic (even if it didn’t originate it itself, a little far-fetched as a thought but nothing is impossible) against the empire targets and the workers, to build up further its police state, to accelerate the attack against China, Russia, Palestine, etc. But that doesn’t mean that the medical emergency is not there! Just live one day in a newly opened, huge Covid ICU in, say, Istanbul (accessible on BBC), where they are working their ass off (but better than here, where hospitals are closing amid the friggin chaos) and having 35% death rate, or tour Guayaquil streets with the undertakers collecting bodies out in the street, or calculate age-stratified excess deaths with a statistician, and come back to tell me that this is ordinary administration… In fact, if you even had had a 5-day light-to-moderate “flu” you’d be telling me, like several young people did, that “this has nothing to do with any flu — it’s out of hell”.

    Anyway, enough of this discussion here, we don’t want to review every single detail regarding the epidemic in a thread dedicated to the carrier and the Navy. Bye.

    • Replies: @NPleeze
  149. NPleeze says:
    @joe2.5

    First, the internationally available standard antigen test is pretty good enough as to specificity, as tests go

    Again, just your say-so. I’ve researched this and it just isn’t true. The vast majority of testing is the very unreliable PCR test. What evidence do you have that China conducted a lot of antigen tests? None? Thought so.

    Also antigen tests only detect individuals who have built up antibodies to the virus (assuming the test is reliable), but does not detect individuals who were able to defeat the virus without the use of antibodies (yes, that happens, A LOT). There is a test for that, namely placing the virus in vitro in a tissue/blood sample and seeing if the virus successfully replicates. There are many reasons – including absolute immunity (e.g., the virus cannot trick a person’s receptors) and first-line-defense immunity (T-cells, existing anti-bodies, mucus, etc.).

    not really for persons at-risk, who are the sick and elderly.

    It’s also relevant for them – specifically, what is their risk to continue to associate with society at large. The general solution to a problem like this is to provide the vulnerable with safe spaces where they can socialize with other vulnerable and not intermix with the strong. The US approach has a constant mixing of the vulnerable and others and hence is utterly ineffective.

    then by gradual increments up to the 15% already reported in the >80 age group

    Again, your 15% is absolute junk. They haven’t done any random studies of 80year olds either. They just testing the dying. As I’ve noted many times, if you test only the dead, the death rate will be 100%.

    There’s also the claimed Hamburg report I’m still trying to locate, but search for Hamburg on this page and you’ll find the poster making it, that some 85% of deaths attributed to COVID-19 in fact are not caused by it. I asked for a link, hopefully he’ll provide it.

    Fourth, the owners of the Empire and their medical establishment ,,, are in fact sabotaging.

    We agree on something! I just happen to think their fraudulent “statistics”, and their abominable abuse, are a critical part of the charade.

    accessible on BBC

    You mean the biggest liars on the planet? No thanks. They were the ones that reported WTC 7 collapsing 20 minutes before it did, right? While the reporter was standing in front of it?

    I made a nice video clip once of how shamelessly fraudulent the Bloody Bastard Cunts are, but JewTube has deleted it – too much truth for them. Violated community standards. (It basically consisted of showing a long video juxtaposed to the short excerpts the BBC took from them to support their utterly false, 100% wrong “news” (lies)).

    Yeah, all those dead bodies – nobody’s ever died before. I mean, by now, the global death toll after 4 months is a whopping 154,000 – that’s almost the number of people that die per day on this planet! Shocking!

    • Replies: @Alfred
    , @joe2.5
  150. Alfred says:
    @joe2.5

    way above any seasonal flu or cold

    Here is a study from the Unz area of the woods that lays to rest your assertion.

    A new Stanford preprint was released earlier today (PDF, SI). The authors claim that the true population prevalence of COVID-19 in Santa Clara County is 50–85X higher than the number of confirmed cases. They base their reasoning on a serosurvey of 3330 participants.

    If true, this would actually be good news for society. It would mean that the virus had already widely spread, and thus had a lower fatality rate than previously expected, so the disease wasn’t as severe as we thought. Indeed, the authors claim this explicitly, with rough caps on the number of deaths and the infection fatality rate.

    Peer Review of “COVID-19 Antibody Seroprevalence in Santa Clara County, California”

    Of course, this is bad news for doomers. As you probably know, I am now labelled a hoaxer. 🙂

    • Replies: @joe2.5
  151. a_german_ says:
    @NPleeze

    The link is not necessary, you can find better information on wodarg.com.

  152. a_german_ says:
    @Alfa158

    The “other guys” dont use carrieres because they are not in need to plunder and murder “other guys”. There is no military balance too because you need too much resources to do this thousands of miles away from a shithole you name “gods own country”. You cant be more wrong than that.

    • Replies: @Alfa158
  153. Pandour says: • Website
    @Andrei Martyanov

    This according to Victor Suvorov,a former Soviet military intel officer who defected to the United Kingdom in 1978,from one of his books,Inside the Soviet Army,if I recall correctly-I read all his works decades ago.He mentioned one of the Soviet fleets in regards to the above-unforunately I am not endowed with a photographic memory.

    • Replies: @vot tak
    , @Andrei Martyanov
  154. Pandour says: • Website
    @FB

    I never said Sablin was THE captain,he was the politkom and held the rank Captain of the Third Rank.Minutiae aside,you obviously have serious anger management problems.As for my Croatian ancestry, I can trace it back to the 14th century.Perhaps you can enlighten us on your pure Aryan roots which justify your claim to superiority over others.Ad hominem attacks are merely and indication of ones inferiority and are indicative of immaturity and moral idiocy.Please check the urge to attack your therapist.Do not be bitter,strive to be better,before you totally self-destruct.

    • Replies: @Melotte 22
  155. @Pandour

    Croatian ancestry?
    Sorry to hear that.

    • LOL: vot tak
    • Replies: @Pandour
  156. klint says:

    We need a dialog directed at understanding that the direction we are going is a blind ally.

    We need to understand We are all travelling this Universe together.

    Imagine if we were to spend the monies wasted on military armaments on humanity.

    Perhaps the one most difficult hurdle would be exposing Religion as the fraud it is

  157. FB says: • Website
    @Alfa158

    Wow…so this is the kind of flatulence one would get if one was stupid enough to ask the 711 clerk how quantum mechanics works…

    Here’s a fact for you, pinhead…you would not be able to solve a simple triangle…so how in the world do you screw it into your tiny head that you can jump in here and talk about how hypersonics works…?

    Guidance systems have nothing to do with aerodynamics or flight physics…a ballistic missile can no more be turned into a manoeuvring missile than the moon can be turned into blue cheese…

    For the simple reason that a ballistic missile can only be ‘steered’ during its ascent phase, by vectoring the nozzle thrust…

    Once the engine shuts down, the warhead can no more be steered than a bullet in flight…

    The guidance system’s job is to loft that warhead into the precise point in space from where it will descend UNGUIDED onto the target…kapish…?

    Now…there have been plenty of shorter range quasi ballistic missiles where the warhead can maneuver [to a LIMITED degree] after re-entering the atmosphere…starting with the Scud from 70 years ago…

    Scud could also be called a ‘hypersonic’ missile since it reaches Mach 5 and does maneuver somewhat…

    More capable intermediate range missiles like the Pershing 2 and Russian and Chinese counterparts [also DPRK] have similar capability…but again, only LIMITED maneuvering…

    None of these are what scientists mean by a truly maneuverable hypersonic missile, which is an incredibly difficult physical challenge…and also why these are such a game changer…

    The most important point is that the true hypersonic missile combines both speed and FULL maneuvering…these two objectives are basically conflicting in the laws of physics…

    The ICBM is a purely ballistic missile that has no maneuverability…but it has blistering speed of over Mach 20…and very long range…

    The previous mentioned missiles are a compromise…they have much lower speed and range, and their maneuver ability is also quite limited…

    Now the Holy Grail would be a missile with the speed and range of an ICBM, but able to change its flight path in both altitude and azimuth [up and down, and side to side]…

    The only feasible way to accomplish this feat was actually figured out 80 years ago by German scientist Eugen Sanger…

    The proposed Amerika bomber would use a rocket to launch it out of the atmosphere, as all ballistic missiles do, but from there it would skip across the top of the atmosphere like a pebble skips over the surface of a pond…

    Obviously this up and down skipping equals extreme maneuvering in the altitude plane…once in the atmosphere it could use aerodynamic fins to maneuver side to side also…

    Now that’s the concept that has been pursued ever since, because that is the ONLY workable scheme…

    BUT…the devil is in the details…and making this boost-glide concept actually work has only been achieved recently, with the Russian Avangard…which is fully OPERATIONALLY DEPLOYED and has in fact been inspected by the American side, in its silos, as part of existing strategic arms treaties…

    The US is nowhere in hypersonics…the C-HGB [Common Hypersonic Glide Body] is not much more than a Scud…a Yugo compared to the Russian Learjet…

    This just made its very first flight test, and will not actually be a real, deployed system for years…

    Here’s what I know as an aerospace engineer…the key to boost glide is what’s known as a ‘bounce’ reentry…the Apollo launches never actually performed a true bounce to back outside the atmosphere…

    The Russian Luna spacecraft returning from the Moon did…

    Much was learned from that work…it may sound simple, but when you get down to doing things like flying into and out of space…well, even something very simple quickly becomes very complicated…

    The US is very bad at space science, due to a corrupt Ponzi system of lining private pockets…

    There are other key areas where America is hopelessly behind…another kind of hypersonics is to take a cruise missile, which is inherently maneuverable since it stays in the atmosphere where you can always use aerodynamic fins…BUT replace its ordinary jet engine with a type that can go much faster…

    This is called a scramjet engine…and again the Russians are kicking ass…

    They were the first to fly a scramjet back in 1991, and have now OPERATIONALLY DEPLOYED a hypersonic cruise missile, the Zirkon, which is now being deployed on their ships and subs…a powered cruise missile that can reach Mach 8…

    Here’s what I can tell you about the C-HGB…it will do very well to be able to match the performance of the Russian Iskander…that’s the class of weapon it is…ie not really a true hypersonic missile…

    The Iskander is nothing to sneeze at of course…it is a major advance on the Scud…which itself is plenty hard to stop…

    The US has wanted an Iskander-like missile for quite some time…the reason is to find a way to defeat Russian air defenses…so-called ‘stealth’ was proved not to work with its spectacular failure against Serbia in 1999 [two F117s lost]…

    Since then the ‘stealth’ aircraft business has been just the usual MIC gravy train, while having zero capability…

    But the sane people in the forces have figured out that a ground based weapon is needed against Russian SAMs…just ask USAF guy general Breedlove…so hence the C-HGB…

    But that’s no true hypersonic missile by any stretch of the imagination [although it does come close, same as the Iskander it’s copying]…

    It’s actually a smart idea for once, and the Russian S400/500 crews may actually have something to worry about for a change…[provided it doesn’t come in a day late and a dollar short, as per usual…]

    • Replies: @Emily
    , @Alfa158
    , @Hibernian
  158. Emily says:

    The American military took the Spanish flu to Europe in 1918.
    https://www.history.com/news/spanish-flu-second-wave-resurgence
    Is history repeating itself.
    Did the American military take the coronavirus to Wuhan last October – wasn’t it?
    There is certainly a lot of reports that the virus was already killing people in the USA at that time.
    So American flu became the Spanish flu in 1918.
    Has the American flu become the Chinese flu this time
    In 1918 it was an accident of fate.
    In 2020 – it is what??

  159. vot tak says:
    @Pandour

    Obviously an impeccable source, just like chalabi… 😀

    • Replies: @Pandour
  160. Alfred says:
    @NPleeze

    There’s also the claimed Hamburg report I’m still trying to locate, but search for Hamburg on this page and you’ll find the poster making it, that some 85% of deaths attributed to COVID-19 in fact are not caused by it. I asked for a link, hopefully he’ll provide it.

    I know some German. The best I could do was this link. It is from April 02

    A so-called PCR test can be used to determine whether a person has Covid-19 or not. Everywhere in Germany, antibody tests are also being worked on. After about ten days, when the immune system has already successfully dealt with the pathogen, these antibodies circulate in the blood. Now a large laboratory in Hamburg has started to carry out these tests.

    The Hamburg laboratory can perform about 700 “ELISA” tests a day. They make sense at the earliest two weeks after infection. No antibodies would have been detectable before. The health insurance company will cover the costs if the doctor arranges the test. “He then decides whether to take blood and send it to a trusted laboratory,” says Fenner. Other laboratories in Germany would carry out the test. “We are certainly not the only ones, we were just very quick to implement it.” Fenner believes that one can certainly get this diagnosis in a timely manner.

    Jan Prasel got his result quickly: he has no antibodies against the coronavirus. If he is going to work in the hospital soon, he has to take extra care.

    Coronavirus: Hamburg laboratory offers antibody tests

    By now, they should have 10,000 test results.

  161. In Singapore, where there is much more (PCR) testing, the number of cases is now 5992 with 11 deaths (“official” fatality rate of 0.18%). The vast majority of cases are Bangladeshi and Indian foreign workers living in close quarter dormitories. Over 1% have tested positive, many asymptomatic. It’s unlikely that the number previously infected as determined by antigen/ antibody testing would be 50-fold higher as in Santa Clara County, California, but a 5- to 10- fold increase would not be surprising in this foreign worker population. That would mean the REAL fatality rate is 0.02- 0.04% for COVID-19 (the NY Times claims seasonal flu’s fatality rate is 0.1%, five times as high. Of course this is a population of healthy young men; only risk factors are smoking, and hypertension in isolated cases) receiving excellent care (unlike the US where care is subpar and testing is delayed).
    This will be a great population (over 300,000 foreign workers living in dormitories) to test for herd immunity, due to close quarters and high incidence of PCR positive results (>1%).

    • Thanks: Alfred
  162. @Pandour,@Martyanov.,

    I think that both you are misfiring. The alleged joke would have had its provenance because of the massive dumping of nuclear waste off of the Latvian shore at Karosta. I remember that it was a big issue among the exile Baltic communities in the 1970’s.

    Apparently the issue is still alive and well.

    Cheers-

  163. Alfa158 says:
    @a_german_

    Yes that’s what I’ve been saying.
    Carriers are mobile airfields that are most useful for imperialist gun boat diplomacy and punitive strikes against low capability enemies you want to suppress . They are more of a liability than anything else against high capability targets. Even the US is only able to afford them by printing Monopoly money with our trillion dollar deficits.

  164. Emily says:
    @FB

    I think the Russians are used to being first when it comes to ‘space’…
    But they certainly get very little recognition for their achievements….
    Nice to see you generously giving them some.
    Fairly deserved I would say….
    https://www.history.com/news/from-sputnik-to-spacewalking-7-soviet-space-firsts
    https://listverse.com/2015/10/06/10-soviet-space-firsts-that-got-buried-in-the-history-books/

    • Thanks: FB
    • Replies: @Johnny Walker Read
  165. SteveK9 says:

    The hysteria is what got them. In any normal World, they would have just ignored it. Some Sailors get sick, they get better in a couple of weeks. Most of the crew would not even know they were infected. This is not what the hysterical anecdotes tell us, but it is what the data says.

    That cruise ship of old grandpas and grannies didn’t have many casualties.

    ‘Those whom the Gods would destroy, they first make mad’.

  166. bluedog says:
    @joe2.5

    True enough as I’m an old geezer to,someone wrote way back in time that you start out with a strong generation, and from that every succeeding generation gets weaker yet,much truth in that as we can look at the generations in this country to the present generation.The truth is that aircraft carries are as obsolete as the old battle wagons,they have to stand 600 miles off Iran so they are out of missiel range,and if they don’t know that Russia and China knows just where these carries and their escorts are then they are sadly lacking>!!!!!

  167. ToneKit says:

    Why does this reasoning not apply to any naval vessel of any nation, regardless of whether it is a surface vessel or a submarine? The Saker is overstating his point. Not much can be inferred from the outbreak aboard USS Theodore Roosevelt and how the crew reacted to it. It was a peacetime deployment. Nobody wants to succumb to a virus in peacetime. There are still reasons to believe that US forces wouldn’t be able to absorb mass casualties inflicted on them over a short time span. Nevertheless, it’s quite evident that nobody wants to put that to the test. Not only the Americans have become feminized hedonists. Russians, Chinese, and basically everybody else is subject to the same degeneration. A future war between technologically equal adversaries would be won by the side that has not degenerated quite as much as the other side.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
  168. joe2.5 says:
    @NPleeze

    I see I’m trying to talk sense to a wall. An antigen test is an antigen test because it is the contrary of an antibody test. The rest of your rant is just as detached from reality or even basic understanding of any concept. Bye.

    • Replies: @NPleeze
  169. joe2.5 says:
    @Alfred

    As I repeatedly wrote, incidence and prevalence (=ratio of events/ongoing events to total population), case incidence/prevalence (ratio of symptomatic disease to pop.), and the mortality probabilities corresponding to either are very different things.
    Already wrote that the general figures are likely in the range you mention.That is significant to a point for epidemiology. Not for the individual patient!

    Medically speaking, though, what you want to know, especially if you are at risk, is your chances of getting sick if you catch the bug, and the chance of making it alive if you get sick.

    So you are “answering” something else, seroprevalence, which I never contested or even discussed, not what I have been writing about these. The only reliable, finalized data we have on actual, not calculated, ratio of deaths to total symptomatic/sick people is from Wubei and shows approx. 4,000 deaths out of approx. 50,000 cases of sickness. Reliable figures considering, for the denominator, the very wide tracing efforts at an early stage (15,000 teams of 5 people each tracing all contacts of all symptomatic patients and antigen-testing them one by one) and for the numerator the fact that all cases were isolated and treated.

    This is an all-ages ratio. Now, consider the age-adjusted mortality, which was indicated by the same organization as being very, very low for those below 40, then increasing with age, and reaching 15% (same odds as the Russian roulette) for age 80 and above. So it makes sense on the average, especially because the Chinese population is definitely younger on the average than the Italian or German one. As for “herd immunity” etc., you first have to prove that there is any immunity, then if it is type- or strain-specific, how long it lasts, etc., all of this totally unknown as of even date.

    If you want to compare such a situation to seasonal flu, you have no idea what you are talking about.

    • Replies: @Alfred
  170. Pandour says: • Website
    @Melotte 22

    Doing quite well,thanks for your concern.I live on the island of Hvar in Croatia.Several years ago I talked to a chap from Finland who saw a great deal of the globe.He told me that the only place he would like to live is Hvar island and one other place I cannot recall.I reside in the little town of Stari Grad,pop. c. 2,700.My house is right across the renaissance palace of nobleman Petar Hektorović,who among other works also wrote a treatise on fishing.The palace has a huge decorated stone fresh-water fishpond full of the critters.In the outer court-yard is a stone outhouse older than any building in the U.S.The town has four churches dating from early gothic to the church of Sv. Nikola built in the gothic -renaissance style in 1485,all beautifully decorated.There is also a large Dominican monastery founded in 1482.The town itself has remained unchanged for centuries with cobble-stone streets and interior court-yards rich with flowers and vegetation.Above many houses the coats-of arms of their owners have stood for centuries.In the surrounding country side grapes,olives ,oranges,figs and other fruits abound.All around is the clearest and bluest sea you will ever see,ideal for boating,fishing and diving.Hvar town has one of the oldest theatres in Europe,built in 1612.Seven Croatian galleys took part in the battle of Lepanto in 1571,including two from Hvar,which ended Ottoman naval supremacy in the Mediterranean.A friend of mine from Canada came to visit me a few years back and said-you live in paradise.That pretty well sums it up.Drop in on me,we are a hospitable lot.The wine is excellent,as are the local liqueurs,not to mention the sea-food and other culinary fare.

  171. Alfa158 says:
    @FB

    Wow, got some anger issues there?
    I appreciate your taking the time to provide a useful summary of the current state of the art, but I hope your technical skills as an engineer are high because that opening bit of Tourette’s Syndrome suggests that human relations and emotional stability are not highlighted skills on your resume.

    • Replies: @FB
  172. @Pandour

    This according to Victor Suvorov

    Yeah, Victor Rezun, pseudo-historian and world-renown “authority” on nuclear propulsion. “Good” source of knowledge on USSR/Russia. In related field, Stephen King’s novels are based on real events.

    • LOL: FB
    • Replies: @vot tak
    , @Pandour
  173. Pandour says: • Website
    @vot tak

    Had you bothered to read some of his stuff,you would realize why the Soviet Union ignominiously imploded.Having never cracked any of his books,you are certainly an authority.

    • Replies: @vot tak
  174. @Timur The Lame

    I think that both you are misfiring.

    No, it only seems to you because you have no idea what are you talking about precisely because you rely on:

    it was a big issue among the exile Baltic communities in the 1970’s.

    This sheer delirium about this subject was created by Swedish “journalists” (a euphemism for paranoid cretins) who do not know, which is expected, what was stationed in the Liepaja Naval base and how, as an example, nuclear tipped torpedoes which were a standard issue for diesel-powered submarines of 16 Division were stored and disposed of, same as nuclear tipped anti-shipping missiles on missile corvettes, hint–it was not in Liepaja. So, it is you who is misfiring by speaking on the subject matter of which you have no idea.

  175. Pandour says: • Website
    @Timur The Lame

    Thanks for the constructive input-nice to hear from someone who is civilized.

  176. Neoconned says:

    https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/coronavirus-began-months-earlier-not-21882132

    UK researchers are saying covid19 did NOT originate in Wuhan but in SOUTHERN CHINA. Interesting.

  177. Alfred says:
    @joe2.5

    If you want to compare such a situation to seasonal flu, you have no idea what you are talking about

    If you look at the data, I mean the real data not the New York rubbish, you will find that it is no different from seasonal flu. There are plenty of references on this page and others on this website that prove that.

    If you don’t like my graphs at:

    https://www.unz.com/tsaker/will-this-pandemic-finally-mark-the-end-of-the-us-carrier-fleet/#comment-3842859

    I really cannot help you. 🙂

    It is a non-event. The real news is that they crashed the world economy and robbed our children of a future.

    • Replies: @joe2.5
  178. @sally

    Good comment re the quality of leadership. But I think the problem is democracy rather than the Nation-State. As questionable as say, hereditary monarchy would be for selecting intelligent leaders who are ALSO excellent stewards, democracy as currently run seems designed to select the very worst people: people who are so hungry for power and to have control over others that they’ll submit themselves to all sorts of petty humiliations. Somebody (I can’t recall the name) said that actually wanting to run for President of the US should disqualify someone from the job.

  179. Neoconned says:
    @joe2.5

    I hate to say it but you have a point.

    The military now is little more than a token public employment make work scheme for average IQ types(I’ll admit, like me) who can’t cut it in STEM and who are too weak or lazy to cut it in the service sector. Plus the free dental/medical/food/barracks apartments etc

    Its basically being on welfare only you’re a “paid just enough to not be a threat” but you do the bidding of your neo colonialist masters.

    If i could go back to my early 20s I’d sign up for the Navy….my grandpa was in it in Vietnam but came back a vegetable.

    Hell at least I’d have free dental and medical.

  180. 🐙 The octopus complained to the eel, “All my tentacles are infected.”

    The eel responded, “So why don’t you cut them off and grow some new ones? And stop grabbing!”

  181. joe2.5 says:
    @Alfred

    So you didn’t even bother to read. A true believer…

  182. Neoconned says:
    @Alfa158

    Its already too late. I know several people who are not furloughed…..theyre formally laid off. As in NO WORK. Its over” their restaurants shut down due to the owner moving on or lease issues or bank issues etc

    If and when we “reopen” the economy they will be forced to seek unemployment.

    I live in Greater NOLA. The ONLY appeal this humid sweatshop ever had was that it was cheap. Dirt cheap here. Rent. Utilities. Everything. Not any more. The trailer park my school bus stopped at(i lived down the road) when i was a kid used to have lot rent at 200-300$ aa late as the early 2000s. Now a 40 yr old single wide dumpy trailer is $1k per month NOT INCLUDING UTILITIES!

    As somebody used to working 2 to 3 jobs to make ends meet i can barely make it even being in the casino business…..which is a major employer down this way.

    This country is going to be bankrupt post virus.

    The trillion dollar war budgets and shipyards and military fleets etc will go away. Lawmakers with the obligation to finance Social Security and pensions for 80 million retiring Boomers are going to view 100 billion dollar(or more expensive) pork military procurement programs with an ax ready to chop off pieces to divert to pet constituencies and other connected patronage networks.

    Who the hell are you going to tax to finance that sh**???

    I’m pushing 40 yrs old and i make near $10 per hr and theyre talking about laying me off….LOL

    I dunno….you guys tell me.

    • Agree: bluedog
    • Thanks: Alfred
  183. Thim says:

    Saker is a wishful thinker. He wishes that the entire American surface fleet were obsolete, so that is enough for him, it is all obsolete.

    The big one, if it should come, might be over in a few hours. If the carriers can deliver what they have before they go down, the enemy no longer exists.

  184. Realist says:
    @joe2.5

    So let’s look at it: approximately 50,000 infected in Wubei, most all having run their course, with approximately 4,000 deaths.

    You have no idea how many are infected.

    • Replies: @joe2.5
  185. @ Andrei Martyanov,

    I have read many of your posts over the years and found them very informative and convincing in as far as the subject that you were commenting on. It is with great dismay that I see you come across as being very rude towards me for no good reason. I had held you in higher esteem. Don’t you realize that it detracts from YOU in the eyes of the very many that read commentary but do not post?

    Having said that, I did not mention or infer that the radioactivity was related to your precious subs. The issue was nuclear waste dumped in the Baltic Sea! Hence the aforementioned jokes about sailors glowing in the dark. If the rumors circulating in the Baltic community about such actions happened in the 1970’s then it predates your Swedish journalist straw-man. It was an open secret that would have been impossible to hide under any circumstances.

    Have your grandson Google ” soviet dumping nuclear waste baltic sea” if you are challenged by search technology and do some reading. And then have another drink.

    Cheers-

    • Replies: @vot tak
  186. FB says: • Website
    @Alfa158

    LOL…

    Well…I do get a little frustrated when I see lay people repeating parakeet-like the utter nonsense that we are bombarded with in the brainless ‘science’ media…but thanks for being a good sport…

    Go have a look at the Popular Mechanics article on the C-HGB…when a guy like me looks at that picture of the silly table-top model, my reaction is like I had at that cardboard mockup of Iran’s ‘stealth’ fighter…

    Although to be perfectly fair, Iran has developed some quite good shorter range ballistic missiles…like the ones they used to hit that US base in Iraq…very comparable to what I would expect of an Iskander…

    Now I understand that lay people are interested and fascinated with this stuff, and they are keen to learn…but our media does an absolutely retarded job…

    Look at the C-HBG in that article…two of those are carried on a truck…so obviously that’s going to be a short to medium range rocket…

    You would think that simple fact would not be so hard to figure out for these clowns…but no, they go and bill this as ‘catching up’ to Russia…

    Just to set the facts straight, the Avangard is launched by an ICBM rocket with intercontinental range, and flies at Mach 27…faster than a spacecraft returning from orbit…

    And then they go on to ‘explain’ that hypersonic missiles don’t leave the atmosphere…total bunk…

    Oh and should I mention that a ‘hypersonic glide’ vehicle that doesn’t leave the atmosphere will only be able to glide for a couple of hundred miles, max…?

    [The faster you fly in the atmosphere, the lower your glide ratio…see the Kuchemann formula…the Shuttle could only glide about 150 miles…which is why skipping along the top is the only way to really go distances with a hypersonic glider…]

    How is gliding for a couple hundred miles ‘catching up’ to the Avangard that has a range of many thousands of miles…only the retards at Popular Mechanics know…

    Another fun fact about the C-HBG…that flight test didn’t actually include the rocket that’s going to carry this ‘glider’…that’s not scheduled til 2023…

    But like I said…this is a very modest beginning, which is exactly the right place to start for the US…

    It does look bigger than the Iskander, so it will probably have a range of over 1,000 km…which is why the US decided to leave the Intermediate Nuclear Forces treaty…

    The Iskander was of course developed during the INF era and is thus limited to 500 km…

    I would expect the flight performance of the C-HBG to be about Mach 6 to 8, with a range up to 1,000 miles [1,600 km]…

    The truck mounted rocket will launch it to outside the atmosphere, but the warhead appears to have Scud like fins for maneuvering as it re-enters…

    Again, very similar to the Iskander…just bigger…

    The idea will be to deploy those in Europe, where its purpose will be to threaten Russian air defenses [S400/500]…

    They will also be deployed on ships, and those will likewise be aimed at China, DPRK, Iran and Russia of course, along with countries like Venezuela and Syria that have Russian air defenses, and are thus not so easily intimidated…

    This is like I said a pretty good choice of weapon…far more effective than the ridiculous ‘missile defense’ boondoggle that saw Little Kim firing rockets at will over the heads of the mighty Pacific fleet in the Sea of Japan…

    Against Russia, missile cruisers armed with these new rockets are not going to be able to get very close…the Russians have already mounted what appears to be an improved Iskander, Kinzhal, on the MiG31 supersonic interceptor, extending its reach to 2,000 km…

    The bigger supersonic ‘Backfire’ bomber will carry three Kinzhals…these have already demonstrated flight speed in excess of Mach 8, and will be a major long range threat to any USN ships that might want to get close to Russian shores…

    • Thanks: bluedog, Alfred
  187. @Emily

    Funny how you Russian Putin lovers are able to figure out everyone else’s lies except good old Mother Russia’s. The Yuri Gagarin mission was just as fake as America’s “moon landings”. Why else do you think they never exposed America’s faked Apollo moon landings. Wake up and smell the vodka comrade!
    The truth, if you dare!
    The Gagarin fake as “first man in space” – wrong radio communication – no camera
    How the “SU” regime arranged the “first man in space” by a parachute jump – without any camera

    http://www.geschichteinchronologie.com/atmosphaerenfahrt/04-01_Gagarin-fake-wrong-radio-transmission-no-camera-ENGL.html

    • LOL: bluedog
    • Troll: vot tak
  188. joe2.5 says:
    @Realist

    For the Nth time now, I was now discussing not the number infected (incidence or prevalence); I am only reporting the only observed (mopped up, near complete observations) death rate, on a denominator of total symptomatic (=sick) cases. Also, this is reported by the most successful and reliable healthcare system so far, which did painstaking early tracing, isolation and treatment on a gigantic scale, hence with reliable numbers. And managed to stop the epidemic.

    This is the number that counts for the patients and physicians. It is not the same, yet once more, as the general epidemiologic indexes of incidence or prevalence or overall mortality. Combined with the age-range mortality expectations (already reported) it gives the physician and patient a reasonable basis for expectations.

    • Replies: @Realist
  189. vot tak says:
    @Pandour

    Yes guardianista troll, whatever you say, guardianista troll… 😀

    • Replies: @Pandour
  190. The two factors that may lead to the obsolescence of the U.S. carrier fleet are the effectiveness of the weapons used against them (primarily submarine launched torpedoes and various balllistic and cruise missiles) and the political will on the part of the other side to use them. Even damaging a carrier, let alone sinking one, risks a nuclear response from the United States. If and when carriers lose this protected status, then I submit that the effectiveness of the carriers will depend on how much effort they have to put into protecting themselves and their escorts. A carrier that flies 95-98% of its missions just to protect itself and its group really is no longer a good investment. I guess we’ll get a measure of this if and when an adversary summons up the political will to put the carrier at riskk.

  191. vot tak says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    This pandour formats his comments exactly like a troll did on saker’s site who used at least 2 names, unclebob1 and englishman.

  192. tspoon says:

    Some pretty salty comments from some pretty salty people. What’s the point. The US should celebrate it’s ownership of aircraft carriers. They ain’t no third world sh*thole. They’re a third world sh*thole WITH CARRIERS. YEAH!

  193. Realist says:
    @joe2.5

    The death rate= number dead/number infected…x100 for%. Plain and simple.
    You do not know the number infected.

    My statement stands.

    • Replies: @joe2.5
  194. vot tak says:
    @Timur The Lame

    LOL, they’re using skool kids now… 😀

  195. Brewer says:

    A study out of Stanford University tested California residents and found that the Covid-19 infection rate is likely far higher than has been reported, but the virus could also be less deadly than commonly believed.

    World Health Organization director-general Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus has previously mentioned 3.4 percent. This would translate into over 300 deaths per every 10,000 infected persons. Stanford’s study would lower the mortality rate to .14 percent or less, meaning 14 deaths or less per 10,000 people infected.

    The study concludes that Covid-19’s mortality rate among infected people would be on par with, or even less, than the seasonal flu.

  196. joe2.5 says:
    @Realist

    I never questioned your statement, so let it stand until it’s tired. Remedial reading suggests itself, by the way, for some people here.

  197. In other words, the USS Theodore Roosevelt is now completely inoperable!

    False.

    The ship could get back underway again in under 96 hours, if ordered to. Captain Crozier said so in his letter. It would do so knowing it would take casualties, but it would do it, if ordered to.

    Higher authority has decided that there is nothing currently urgent enough to require the carrier to remain at sea with a pandemic running through the crew, ergo they are pier side at NS Agana in Guam sanitizing the ship and waiting for the virus to run its course, whereupon they will get underway again and charlie mike.

  198. Pandour says: • Website
    @Andrei Martyanov

    My point was how can anybody today be an apologist for the failed criminal enterprise which was the Soviet Union.I mentioned one specific case and then you assume on that basis that you know all and I nothing and that everything that Suvorov-Rezin wrote is sheer bunk-that is a fallacy in argument,as any high-school student knows,at least those decades ago, but apparently not the schools you attended.The bottom line is that the postwar Soviet armed forces were a paper tiger with inept leadership,no tactical flexibility at the NCO level,poor morale and with much of its hardware being simply death traps,to mention just a few failings.The tanks were coffins on wheels.Case in point,during the Gulf War,on Feb. 26th 1991 U.S. tanks and Bradley Fighting Vehicles destroyed 85 Soviet tanks including many T-72 MBTs and 40 armored vehicles.Only one Bradley was lost to enemy fire.The next day U.S. 1st Armored Div. destroyed 186 tanks,mostly T-72 MBTs,and 127 armored vehicles.Only four Abrams were hit by direct fire.In 1987 West German teenager Matthias Rusk flew a propeller-driven single-engined Cessna 500 miles through every Soviet defensive shield and landed in Red Square at the gates of the Kremlin.Now that is Stephen King material.

    • Replies: @FB
    , @Anonymous
  199. Pandour says: • Website
    @vot tak

    Great joke-at least I hope it is-hats off.As we know the Guardian is a left-wing,liberal and politically correct rag and I am more right wing,anti-Soviet and anti-commie than Joe Mcarthy.Keep em comin.

  200. FB says: • Website
    @Pandour

    You’re obviously a complete idiot…

    Everything you said is complete bullshit with zero basis in reality…

    The Soviet system was very successful in many important ways…including leading the world in science and education…providing its people a decent standard of living…and much more…

    Intelligent people in the west are fully aware that the only reason the capitalist elites threw a few extra peanuts to the working people was precisely because they were scared shitless that socialism would show them up…

    I was an exchange student in East Germany in the early 1980s…people lived very well, with job, health and housing security AND NO DEBT…

    The psychological impact of this is impossible for people to understand unless they have actually experienced life behind the so called ‘iron curtain’…

    Most ordinary folks in eastern Europe still say they were better off…and polls continue to show that…

    Your garbage here is ridiculous…clearly you are nothing but a retarded fascist…

  201. Hibernian says:
    @FB

    Could he have meant that an ballistic missile design was used as a starting point for a long range guided missile design? In which case it’s no longer ballistic.

  202. Hibernian says:
    @ToneKit

    Point, is peace time operations are training for war, and also, peacetime operations in front line areas could turn into war very quickly.

  203. Anonymous[572] • Disclaimer says:

    To The Saker
    Re: Considering that in reality USN carriers are a instrument of colonial repression and not ships to be engaged against the USSR

    1) Keeping seal lanes open against the USSR was a real mission that would have been essential in any non-nuclear war against the USSR. Considering that the USSR’s military forces were generally superior to the NATO ground forces, such a war was (just barely) possible.

    2) As far as “colonial repression” goes, note that the US was generally in favor of ending colonial/mother country relationships.

    3) Far more important is that the US is now suppressing a number of regional wars simply by US presence. If the US presence stops, the regional wars start. Furthermore, private attempts at piracy (and possibly State sponsored privateering) will close some major sea lanes that are now kept open by non-capital ship patrols (Destroyers and the like).
    As the song says,
    Get along, little baby, get along
    You know you’re gonna miss me when I’m gone.

    https://thehill.com/policy/defense/493490-foreign-powers-test-us-defenses-amid-coronavirus-pandemic

    4) So, stop fighting the Cold War. The USSR is gone. Good thing, too. It was assembled for the sole purpose of conquering Europe during the next general war following WW II. When that failed (due to massive Russian casualties and a German first strike) the USSR didn’t quite know what to do with itself until about 2000. Thank God that episode is over and Russia can now do things that Russia wants to do. That is, unless somebody convinces it that the USSR’s mission in 1940 is the real Russian mission now and re-runs the whole bloody, suffering fiasco. And you know who you are.

    5) Russia will have quite enough on its plate during the reorganization following US withdrawal from policing the sea lanes, a withdrawal that you have pointed out is unavoidable now. Look at that, not Lenin and Stalin’s master plan.

    • Troll: bluedog
  204. meena says:

    The killing of D’Andrea—which the US government has neither confirmed nor denied—has significant implications for the IRGC’s familiar narrative of soft war. Until now, the CIA agent had served as a convenient foil for all kinds of government blunders, as well as an excuse for the ongoing unrest, and a justification for its murderous response. With its arch-nemesis and personification of soft war gone, who or what will take his place? Emily Blout is a professor at American University. She holds a PhD in Iranian Studies. Follow her on Twitter: @emilyblout. https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/iransource/ayatollah-mike-and-the-irgcs-growing-credibility-gap/
    Wikipedia uses past tense to describe him

    An Iranian Corona hit to a flying saucer .

  205. NPleeze says:
    @joe2.5

    No, you are a wall, a brick wall. Antigen tests try to detect antigens, which only works if the patient is actually sick. It is in that regard even worse than antibody tests to test for prior exposure/infections so I (obviously incorrectly) assumed you meant the latter. I.e. if somebody’s antibodies or other immune defenses have already defeated the antigen you are looking for, or is otherwise immune, the antigen test will come back negative. Yet here you are claiming that this test detects everyone ever exposed/infected.

    Well, I guess it’s all just another brick in your wall.

    • Replies: @joe2.5
  206. “Now a 40 yr old single wide dumpy trailer is $1k per month NOT INCLUDING UTILITIES!’

    Without knowing your economy, I would think that is an over valued property and it was over valued long before we got where we are.

  207. Erebus says:

    Will This Pandemic Finally Mark the End of the US Carrier Fleet?

    Yes, but not because it sickened sailors in whatever numbers, or because it can’t be defended against salvoes of cheap ‘n cheerful missiles.

    The Pandemic marks the end of the US Carrier Fleet because it will drive into default the unpayable debt that underpins the grotesque financial edifice of cards that it’s both dependent on and defends.

    When the mass delusion that unpayable debt is “money good” dissipates like a morning mist, the Fleet will find itself high & dry, and not only the Fleet.

  208. Corrupt says:

    While hypersonic missiles may complicate matters, Carrier operations are still possible. The author ignores the really hard part about anti-ship operations: Targeting. The missiles can’t see over the horizon on their own, and without queueing are worthless. Trying to find an uncooperative target (one in EMCON) in an area the size of Texas is difficult . Also, contrary to what the author said, a US carrier group did transit to a fjord in Norway undetected. It can be done.

  209. joe2.5 says:
    @NPleeze

    Well, the only thing I am writing about is the medical aspect, and I am am only talking about sick people (not “infected” or carriers, or anything like that, which is very different and as yet unknown, and only relevant to epidemiologists (the real ones, not the politicians.) And about mortality in symptomatic people, not even all the infected. Because, you see, that’s what the whole story was about: what’s your chance of making it if you get sick. You’re free to waste your time with red herrings.

    Infection control is not simple, as a comparison of Chinese success and US-European chaos will tell anyone, and no one has any idea what kind of immunity there will be, if it will in fact be enough immunity to protect from immediate relapse, how long it will last, etc. No idea, except that vaguely similar viruses don’t create long-lasting immune status. From zilch up to some 12 months or so…

    By the way, the revised and finalized numbers from Wuhan are very clear. 50,333 symptomatic infections (and every case was followed up and traced and treated) and 3,869 deaths. So, if you get sick your chance of landing six feet under is close to 8%, all ages mixed. On a sliding scale, from 2% if younger than 40 up to 15% if over 80. Enjoy.

  210. @Diversity Heretic

    I guess better late than never? First… the Captain put threat to force ahead of threat to mission.
    This is unacceptable for a CO of a carrier. Second…we are at war. We are engaged with several enemies but one in particular is playing the liberals and uninformed in our country for fools. This enemy developed a virus for weaponizing and now we are the recipients. This enemy is responsible for untold deaths across this planet and has consistently lied about and tried to cover up facts and evidence relating to the origin of the virus. This enemy continually steals our technology and our jobs and now has threatened to withhold vital medical supplies. This enemy is continually pushing its influence and doctrine across the globe and if it is allowed to win we will all lose our freedom.

    You should read this before trying to color the Captain a hero….
    https://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=112537

    • Troll: joe2.5
    • Replies: @bluedog
    , @dfordoom
  211. @Spanky

    From the Office of the Navy Chief of Information
    WASHINGTON (NNS) — Statement from the Acting Secretary of the Navy Thomas B. Modly, regarding the relief of the Commanding Officer of USS Theodore Roosevelt.

    —————

    Good afternoon. Thank you again for your diligence and courage in keeping the American people informed as we all deal with the profound ramifications, and rapid developments, associated with this crisis.

    [MORE]

    I am here today to inform you that today at my direction, the Commanding Officer of the USS Theodore Roosevelt, Captain Crozier, was relieved of command by the Carrier Strike Group Commander, Rear Admiral Stuart Baker.

    The Executive Officer, Captain Dan Keeler, has assumed command temporarily until such time as Rear Admiral Select Carlos Sardiello arrives in Guam to assume command. Rear Admiral Select Sardiello is the former commanding officer of the Theodore Roosevelt so he is extremely well-acquainted with the ship, many members of its crew and the operations and capabilities of the ship itself. He is the best person in the Navy right now to take command under these circumstances.

    As Secretary of the Navy, I could not be more proud of our men and women serving as part of the Navy and Marine Corps team. I can assure you that no one cares more than I do about their safety and welfare. I myself have a son in uniform, who is currently serving right now on active duty in Korea—one of the first nations in the world to have a significant spike in Coronavirus cases. I understand, both as a parent and a veteran, how critical our support lines are for the health and well-being of our people, especially now in the midst of a global pandemic.

    But there is a larger strategic context, one full of national security imperatives, of which all our commanders must all be aware today. While we may not be at war in a traditional sense, neither are we truly at peace. Authoritarian regimes are on the rise. Many nations are reaching, in many ways, to reduce our capacity to accomplish our national goals. This is actively happening every day. It has been a long time since the Navy and Marine Corps team has faced this broad array of capable global strategic challengers. A more agile and resilient mentality is necessary, up and down the chain of command.

    Perhaps more so than in the recent past, we require commanders with the judgment, maturity, and leadership composure under pressure to understand the ramifications of their actions within that larger dynamic strategic context. We all understand and cherish our responsibilities, and frankly our love, for all of our people in uniform, but to allow those emotions to color our judgment when communicating the current operational picture can, at best, create unnecessary confusion, and at worst, provide an incomplete picture of American combat readiness to our adversaries.

    When the Commanding Officer of the USS THEODORE ROOSEVELT decided to write his letter of 30 March 2020 that outlined his concerns for his crew in the midst of a COVID-19 outbreak, the Department of the Navy had already mobilized significant resources for days in response to his previous requests. On the same date marked on his letter, my Chief of Staff had called the CO directly, at my request, to ensure he had all the resources necessary for the health and safety of his crew.

    The CO told my Chief of Staff that he was receiving those resources, and was fully aware of the Navy’s response, only asking that the he wished the crew could be evacuated faster. My Chief of Staff ensured that the CO knew that he had an open line to me to use at any time. He even called the CO again a day later to follow up. At no time did the CO relay the various levels of alarm that I, along with the rest of the world, learned from his letter when it was published two days later.

    Once I read the letter, I immediately called the Chief of Naval Operations, ADM Gilday, and the Commander, U.S. Pacific Fleet, ADM Aquilino. ADM Gilday had just read the letter that morning as well, and ADM Aquilino had it the day before. We had a teleconference within minutes of my reading of that article, including the Commander, SEVENTH Fleet, VADM William Merz, ADM Aquilino, ADM Gilday, the Department of the Navy’s Surgeon General, RADM Bruce Gillingham, and others. That evening, we held another teleconference with the entire chain of command.

    The next day, I spoke with the CO of the THEODORE ROOSEVELT myself, and this morning, I have spoken to the TR’s Carrier Strike Group Commander, RDML Stuart Baker. RDML Baker did not know about the letter before it was sent to him via email by the CO. It is important to understand that the Strike Group Commander, the CO’s immediate boss, is embarked on the Theodore Roosevelt, right down the passageway from him. The letter was sent over non- secure, unclassified email even though that ship possesses some of the most sophisticated communications and encryption equipment in the Fleet.

    It was sent outside the chain of command, at the same time the rest of the Navy was fully responding. Worse, the Captain’s actions made his Sailors, their families, and many in the public believe that his letter was the only reason help from our larger Navy family was forthcoming, which was hardly the case.

    Command is a sacred trust that must be continually earned, both from the Sailors and Marines one leads, and from the institution which grants that special, honored privilege.

    As I learned more about the events of the past week on board USS THEODORE ROOSEVELT (CVN-71), including my personal conversations with the Strike Group Commander, Commander, SEVENTH Fleet, Commander, U.S. Pacific Fleet, the Chief of Naval Operations, and CAPT Crozier himself, I could reach no other conclusion than that Captain Crozier had allowed the complexity of his challenge with COVID breakout on the ship to overwhelm his ability to act professionally, when acting professionally was what was needed most. We do, and we should, expect more from the Commanding Officers of our aircraft carriers.

    I did not come to this decision lightly. I have no doubt in my mind that Captain Crozier did what he thought was in the best interests of the safety and well-being of his crew. Unfortunately, it did the opposite. It unnecessarily raised alarms with the families of our Sailors and Marines with no plan to address those concerns. It raised concerns about the operational capabilities and operational security of the ship that could have emboldened our adversaries to seek advantage, and it undermined the chain of command who had been moving and adjusting as rapidly as possible to get him the help he needed.

    For these reasons, I lost confidence in his ability to lead that warship as it continues to fight through this virus, get the crew healthy, so that it can continue to meet its national security requirements. In my judgement relieving him of command was in the best interests of the United States Navy and the nation in this time when the nation needs the Navy to be strong and confident in the face of adversity. The responsibility for this decision rests with me. I expect no congratulations for it, and it gives me no pleasure in making it. CAPT Crozier is an honorable man, who despite this uncharacteristic lapse of judgment, has dedicated himself throughout a lifetime of incredible service to our nation.

    Pursuant to this action, and with my full support, the Chief of Naval Operations Admiral Gilday has directed the Vice Chief of Naval Operations, Admiral Robert Burke, to conduct an investigation into the circumstances and climate of the entire Pacific Fleet to help determine what may have contributed to this breakdown in the chain of command. We must ensure we can count on the right judgment, professionalism, composure, and leadership from our Commanding Officers everywhere on our Navy and Marine Corps team, but especially in the Western Pacific. I have no indication that there is a broader problem in this regard, but we have obligation to calmly and evenly investigate that nonetheless.

    To our Commanding Officers, it would be a mistake to view this decision as somehow not supportive of your duty to report problems, request help, protect your crews, and challenge assumptions as you see fit.

    This decision is not one of retribution. It is about confidence. It is not an indictment of character, but rather of judgement. While I do take issue with thevalidity of some of the points in Captain Crozier’s letter, he was absolutely correct in raising them.

    It was the way in which he did this, by not working through and with his Strike Group Commander to develop a strategy to resolve the problems he raised, by not sending the letter to and through his chain of command, by not protecting the sensitive nature of the information contained within the letter appropriately, and lastly by not reaching out to me directly to voice is concerns, after that avenue had been provided to him through my team, that was unacceptable.

    Let me be clear, you all have a duty to be transparent with your respective chains of command, even if you fear they might disagree with you. This duty requires courage, but it also requires respect for that chain of command, and for the sensitivity of the information you decide to share and the manner you choose to share it.

    Finally, and perhaps most importantly, I would like to send a message to the crew of the Theodore Roosevelt and their families back here at home. I am entirely convinced that your Commanding Officer loves you, and that he had you at the center of his heart and mind in every decision that he has made. I also know that you have great affection, and love, for him as well. But it is my responsibility to ensure that his love and concern for you is matched, if not exceeded by, his sober and professional judgement under pressure.

    You deserve that throughout all the dangerous activities for which you train so diligently, but most importantly, for those situations which are unpredictable and are hard to plan for. It’s important because you are the TR, you are the Big Stick, and what happens onboard the TR matters far beyond the physical limits of your hull. Your shipmates across the fleet need for you to be strong and ready—and most especially right now they need you to be courageous in the face of adversity.

    The nation needs to know that the Big Stick is undaunted, unstoppable —and that you will stay that way as we as a Navy help you through this COVID-19 challenge. Our adversaries need to know this as well. They respect and fear the Big Stick, and they should. We will not allow anything to diminish that respect and fear as you, and the rest of our nation, fights through this virus. As I stated, we are not at war by traditional measures, but neither are we at peace. The nation you defend is in a fight right now for our economic, personal and political security, and you are on the front lines of this fight in many ways.

    You can offer comfort to your fellow citizens who are struggling and fearful here at home by standing the watch, and working your way through this pandemic with courage and optimism and set the example for the nation. We have an obligation to ensure you have everything you need as fast as we can get it there, and you have my commitment that we will not let you down. The nation you have sworn to defend is in a fight, and the nations and bad actors around the world who wish us harm should understand that the Big Stick is in the neighborhood and that her crew is standing the watch.

    Thank you, and I am ready to answer any questions you may have.

    • Thanks: Spanky
    • Replies: @Spanky
    , @bluedog
    , @Hibernian
  212. Spanky says:
    @old rusty nail

    It’s never been my intent to defend, substantively, Capt. Crozier (or the Navy). Like I’ve said, (and as the admiral-select, former commander of the TR shows), he was on track for an admiral’s shoulder boards and, except for this circumstance, highly likely to also be selected considering his service record.

    The point is, and notwithstanding Hibernian’s accurate observation that some officers above company grade are fools, senior Navy ship and boat drivers are very well vetted — they’ve risen to the top in an extremely competitive, even ruthless, meritocracy. That system selects for well educated, technically proficient men whom are stable and reliable under pressure because they will command nuclear powered vessels equipped with nuclear weapons.

    These are some of the most complex systems and most destructive weapons ever devised by men. Fools, such as the character General Ripper portrayed by Sterling Hayden in Kubrick’s classic Dr. Strangelove, are specifically weeded out for that reason alone, not to mention technical or operational incompetence, or being easily panicked…

    Capt. Crozier dedicated his entire working life, from the time he entered the academy fresh out of high school, to the Navy and his career (over thirty years). I doubt he threw it all away just because he had a sudden rush of shit to the brain. Scuttlebutt says he did protest the port call in Vietnam but was ordered to dock anyway. Moreover he is also infected and, perhaps, he became symptomatic and feverish…

    But we don’t know why he did what he did (sending an email to three admirals in his chain of command, their chiefs of staff, and four other senior captains — he did not leak the email AFAIK) and it’s pointless to speculate. He made his decision and is suffering its consequences (although I understand the Navy investigation is also considering whether or not to reinstate his command, which would be a historical first). I prefer, having known and served with several senior Navy captains, to defer to his judgement and not play arm-chair admiral, unless and until relevant countervailing facts become known.

    I’m done here. It was never my intent to defend the captain, he’s perfectly capable of doing that himself in the proceedings which matter (and, if not, he should not be in command). Rather it was to merely point out that a senior Navy captain is not likely a fool, as some here call him, simply because his decision disagrees with their ideas and beliefs about Covid-19.

    And former acting Secretary Modly’s concern about our “enemies” taking advantage of the TR’s reduced operational status is simply drama. And bad drama at that. We’ve created bogeymen (both state and non-state) for numerous (bad) reasons, but outside of a nuclear first strike (suicidal) or biological weapon deployment (which may have already occurred but if so whom, exactly, did so), their capabilities are generally defensive whereas ours are offensive. I am far more concerned about the US lashing out as its empire wanes and petrodollar tanks… Empires always end badly.

    • Agree: bluedog
    • Replies: @Corrupt
  213. AWM says:

    You know, if you don’t want to end up fried to a crisp by the US Navy maybe it is best if you don’t fuck with them.

  214. bluedog says:
    @old rusty nail

    Damn you must of took your clue from that nut Bush when he said fight them over there or fight over here,we make our own enemies for what are we without enemies no trillion dollar planes ,no billion dollar destroyers and neither work so well, but it keeps the MIC happy at the trough sucking up the money that should be spent on bridges,highways,culverts,railways and a rapid rail system that most other countries have, and also a decent health care system free of the bloodsucking capitalist.!!!!

    • Agree: Neoconned
    • Replies: @Neoconned
  215. bluedog says:
    @old rusty nail

    Lol and the clown is looking for his next gig which is on some board of companies and corporations that make up the MIC,where he can play golf with out a worry as they pay a couple of hundred thousand dollars for his name upon the board.!!!

  216. voicum says:
    @Diversity Heretic

    Please do tall with whom an why is America at war .

  217. Mike G says:

    Quarter Masterbaiter lol

  218. Was General Washington sacked because he wrote to the Continental Congress complaining of exposure and frostbite among the men owing to lack of supplies?

    • Replies: @Hibernian
  219. dfordoom says: • Website
    @old rusty nail

    Second…we are at war. We are engaged with several enemies but one in particular is playing the liberals and uninformed in our country for fools. This enemy developed a virus for weaponizing and now we are the recipients.

    If you’re suffering from paranoid delusions there is medication that can help.

  220. Anonymous[268] • Disclaimer says:
    @Pandour

    Let me correct your nonesense one by one.

    First off Marxism-Leninism was great. Communism is a child of the Enlightenment after all a problem child perhaps but a child nonetheless. The only people complaining are the rightwing and Russia’s foriegn enemies. Since you’re both and opting to be an American/German vassal get ready for the rapefugees the US/EU sends you. Well I’m not ever sure an EU will remain for much longer but those rapefugees won’t be going anywhere.

    Suvorov-Rezin? You dummies will eat up anything a Russian traitor tells you. These guys basically created a niche industry for themselves defecting abroad and lying their assess off to foriegn governments as well as gullible rightists. Even to this day stupid people talk about these frauds.

    The USSR armed forces were at their apex in the post WW2 era and especially the 1960s. The Soviet Union of the 1960s could easily defeat the United States. The Soviet Union’s assets be they political, economic, diplomatic, intelligence, and military far surpassed America. However the Soviet Union of the 1980s could not defeat America. This wasn’t just a balance of forces issue but also because Red China the communist superpower of the far east was now aligned with America creating a massive vulnerability in the USSR’s southern and far eastern borders. This was repaid by America pouring massive amounts of money, industry, hotels, energy, and technology into Red China during the 1980s and 1990s. They were then awarded access to the WTO and were basically given everything including the US medical supply chain.

    Not sure if you’re aware or not but products be they consumer, electronic, healthcare, industrial, and even defense have to meet safety standards some of which are set by international treaty like aviation. The Soviet Union also had to meet these high standards.

    The reason Iraq got destroyed by the United States during the Gulf War was not due to weak Soviet tech but because Saddam Hussein foolishly allowed US bases to be established, supplied, built up, and armed to the teeth in neighboring Saudi Arabia. The US stealth bomber was the big game changer as it also penetrated Iraqi airspace destroying their communications networks, air defenses, military headquarters, and command/control structures. This same vaunted bomber was later shot down in the Balkans by 1960s era USSR supplied anti-aircraft guns albeit upgraded ones.

    Matthias Rusk? He was a German agent. Gorbachev was a kulak whose family were mostly exterminated during the Soviet terror famines. During WW2 A Soviet policeman viciously beat Gorbachev as a child for aiding the German military and a large network of spies remained behind within the USSR. After WW2 the Germany army surrendered but the German state and Nazi party did not. While the US/USSR destroyed Germany and seized all their gold the remnants of the Nazis remained and went underground mostly to the middle east and Latin America. However those who pretended to oppose as part of their cover stories like the Netherlands prince who founded the EU joined the US. The other Nazi spies penetrated the Soviet Union’s power structures like Gorbachev.

    Gorbachev/Yeltsin were traitors and proof that the Soviet obsession with traitors, wreckers, sabotage, and espionage was real. While the Americans liked Gorbachev’s treason they didn’t approve of German reunification which led to them dropping support for him and shifting support to another traitor Yetlsin. The latter’s only reedeming quality was that he appointed Putin as his successor.

  221. Avalanche says:
    @TG

    Other ships will simply screen and maybe quarantine their crews before deployment,

    That’s nonsensical. You cannot “screen and quarantine” sailors when the disease in question is ASYMPTOMATIC for up to two weeks, maybe longer! Do you know what asymptomatic means? It means showing NO symptoms! It means you CANNOT tell if the sailor has it or not. (Hence the ridiculously stupid ‘security theater’ of testing temps of debarking airline passengers!)

    Test them for the virus? Oh yeah, that would be using the unreliable (slow and WAY too few!) test kits that are all we have available so far? The ones that take a couple DAYS to make a determination and then STILL have a massive false positive and false negative results?! And we don’t come close to having enough to test the entire DoD — much less their families and support workers on bases.

    And how are you expecting to be able to deploy if you WERE able to test an entire crew — and found, say, 700+/- out of the 4,800-man crew of a carrier (the Teddy, say?) to BE positive for the illness? Refuse those 700 boarding — and then JUST WHO does their jobs as the carrier limps out to sea?

    (I could throw in a sour comment about damned women being deployed, hating it, so getting preggo, and sent ashore — WITHOUT available replacements for the ship… but that’s a rant for another day…) (And yes, I was a woman Naval Officer: *loved* it, but left the service knowing for damned sure that women should NOT be in the military! Damages the women, damages the military!)

    • Replies: @anachronism
    , @dfordoom
  222. @Avalanche

    I truly wish that the branches of the US Military give the concept of all-women combat and combat support units a serious try. In the “sisterhood of arms”, the women involved would develop unencumbered and without the distractions brought about by the presence of men.

    The Soviet Union, when pressed into it out of sheer desperation, deployed all-women units; and at least some of these performed very well. The snipers and fighter pilots in particular have been romanticized.

    The experiment should take about six years, during which the women could start with the standards for tactics, organization and equipment already in place., and modify them as their experience would warrant.

    I was in the Army. So, using that as an example, Year one emphasizes combat training of the individual soldier: basic training up through platoon level. Year two breaks the soldiers into occupational specialties. During this year, soldiers who display leadership qualities or an advanced comprehension of critical skills, are identified for more responsibility. Year three, companies are formed and unit tactics are learned and practiced in all conditions. Year Four: battalions are formed. Selected officers go to advance career courses within the Army structure in order to learn about staff functions and multiple unit operations. Year five the battalions are trained in combined arms operations and rapid deployment and tactical movement. Year six, combat brigades are formed and ready for full combat deployment.

    The time frames are arbitrary of, course; but looking back at my development as an officer, I think those six phases are about right in order to form “amazon battalions” (or amazon ships’ crews or amazon air squadrons, etc.) fully capable of combat service and deployment. I believe that the “esprit des corps”, developed among the participants in such a program, would be so great that they would not want to end the experiment. All-women (AND ALL-MEN, BY THE WAY) units could become the standard in the U.S. military.

    Women in service would be the better for it. So would the men. So would the country.

    • LOL: Hibernian
  223. Hibernian says:
    @old rusty nail

    This statement is a lot more professional than the speech he flew to Guam to give to the crew.

  224. Hibernian says:
    @The Real and Original David

    They were his direct superiors. He was the Commanding general of the Continental Army. There was no POTUS until 1789. He was going through the chain of command.

  225. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Avalanche

    women should NOT be in the military! Damages the women, damages the military!

    Agreed. It’s frightening that something as obvious as women’s unsuitability for the military is something that people today simply cannot see. And I agree very strongly with your point that it’s a bad idea because it’s bad for the women concerned.

  226. Parfois1 says:

    @Pandour

    Excuse my intrusion into your rantings but a bit of help might be advisable for some one who has a very dimmed view of how the world works. You sound like a naive lamb yet devoid of any critical or thinking faculties and totally out of your depth when picking fights with the likes of FB, Martyanov or vot tak who make you look like a lost lamb and silly. Not because of their indubitably superior intellect, but because you are making a fool of yourself pretending to show off self-importance by knowing some retard old anti-Soviet jokes and retelling kindergarten-level tales.

    You are welcome to discuss something relevant to the topics at hand, but dropping here with nothing else to offer than puerile anti-Russian tirades are a tad in bad taste and reveal your mental shortcomings. On the other hand, one could always do with a useful idiot for comic relief. Your choice… But don’t complain if other commenters’ responses are a bit “uncivilized”.

  227. Alden says:

    Neohew just retired after 20 years as a navy nuclear engineer. His job was to run the nuclear power plant on the carriers. The nuclear plant is run from shore. So he never actually spend much time on the carriers. He was stationed on the Atlantic and pacific coasts of America and Asian ports,

    20 years running those carriers I’m sure he knows more about the carrier fleet than either “America always bad “ Saker or any commenters who never worked on a carrier.

    I should email this article to him and ask his opinion. He doesn’t know everything about our carriers. But I’m sure he knows more about them than Saker or the commenters.

    What exactly are Saker’s credentials that he is an expert on US carriers? Or anything?

    So little real knowledge. So many ignorant opinions.

  228. Neoconned says:
    @bluedog

    Well put sir. As I like to often say:

    “They are over here because we are over THERE…..we are NOT there because they are over HERE…..”

    YES…..the arrogance & stupidity of our foreign policy brought this crap-show upon our own heads.

  229. ChEp says:

    Snark much!
    I am not from the US, but I can say that the vast majority of people in my country are unhappy about China and it’s behaviour surrounding the CoronaVirus. China is agressively asserting itself to become the number one world power. However it shows immaturity and petulance when it’s diplomats threaten countries who do not comply with it’s propaganda. Worse, when they threaten countries for simply urging China to open up to allow international investigations as to the origins of the virus in Wuhan, Frankly, regardless of the origin of the virus China has set itself back 20 years in terms of image and acceptance around the world. China has shown the world it’s hidden face, and it’s ugly.

    Also, regards the overall tone of the article, it gives me no pleasure to write this but I note today that Russian cases of CoronaVirus have surged in the last few days. This is a global tragedy and as has been lately proven time and again, those who politicize or look for advantage can soon find this virus pays no heed to their wishcast narratives. Hubris it appears is not limited to the US east coast elites.

    • Troll: d dan
    • Replies: @d dan
  230. d dan says:
    @ChEp

    “This is a global tragedy and as has been lately proven time and again, those who politicize or look for advantage can soon find this virus pays no heed to their wishcast narratives. “

    You can’t even see that you are one of those who politicize it by criticizing China in your previous paragraph.

    Your hatred is clouding your thinking skill (if there was any in the first place).

  231. “You know, if you don’t want to end up fried to a crisp by the US Navy maybe it is best if you don’t fuck with them.”

    Shame. A critique should not be responded to with threats of this nature, in my view . . .

    But I suspect that one of the ramifications of the our post 9/11 political and social society is that anything goes in the name of shutting down criticism

    shame. I would like to think that the Navy , our armed services in general are attending to much more civilized disposition.

  232. Corrupt says:
    @Spanky

    “These are some of the most complex systems and most destructive weapons ever devised by men. Fools, such as the character General Ripper portrayed by Sterling Hayden in Kubrick’s classic Dr. Strangelove, are specifically weeded out for that reason alone”

    Actually, as a former tech I can tell you that the PRP (Personnel Reliability Program) that people with access to weapons had to go through didn’t care if you were crazy, as long as you were consistently crazy.

  233. @OtherPaul

    Asserting that the United States “owes” the WHO anything is akin to a 5 year old screaming that their parents “owe” them an allowance.

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