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Week Ten of the Russian Intervention in Syria
The “Assad must go” policy implies war with Russia, Iran and Hezbollah
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The “news” that Israel and Turkey are systematically violating international law is hardly news at all. After all, we all know that Turkey has been regularly bombing the Kurds in Iraq and Syria, that Turkey still illegally occupies northern Cyprus just like the Israelis have been bombing Syria and Lebanon for decades and that they are still illegally occupying Palestine. The interesting development this week is that France, the UK and Germany have all officially decided to join these rogue states and act just like the Turks and Israelis by illegally intervening in Syria – in direct violation of international law – supposedly to fight Daesh. And even though Daesh is the official enemy, it “just so happens” that Syrian army positions were bombed by the USAF while the Israelis bombed Hezbollah missile depots. Apparently, the “Assad must go” policy is still the order of the day. In a way, one could argue that the West has now (re-)affirmed the principle that “might makes right” and that threats and violence are still the only “policy” of the Empire in lieu of a legal, negotiated, policy. The problem with that is that the “other side” strongly feels that surrendering to the Empire’s demands is simply not an option.

The Russian warning:

In reality this has been going on for years. From the decision to bomb Serbia to the recent decision by the IMF to bail out the Ukraine in direct violation of IMF rules (which, apparently, shall now be re-written), the AngloZionist Empire has now been violating its own so-called “rules” and “principles” for decades against the background of a quasi-general indifference to the end of the international world order agreed upon after WWII. The big difference today is that the Empire’s reckless arrogance has now brought it in direct contact with the Russian Armed Forces which, apparently, are not willing to accept that kind of thuggery and who will fight back if attacked: in his annual address to expanded meeting of the Russian Federation Defense Ministry Board Putin has clearly indicated that the fact that Russia chose not to strike back at Turkey was a one time exception saying:

I want to warn those who might again try to organize any kind of provocation against our troops: we have taken additional measures to ensure the security of Russian troops and air base. It is reinforced by new air force squadrons and air defenses. All our strike aircraft are now flying with fighter cover. I order you to act with very extreme resolve. Any targets that threaten Russia’s group or our terrestrial infrastructure are to be immediately destroyed.

What Putin is doing here is warning Turkey and, really all of NATO and the Empire that next time Russia will shoot back, immediately. This also shows that the authority shoot back has now been given to the Russian forces in Syria and that no top-level decision will have to be requested to return fire. It is true that this is not a first. The RAF was also given similar order in October already, but since the notion of antiquated Tornados shooting down a SU-30SM is rather far fetched (even if the British press insist that their 1970s-era aircraft “are capable of blasting any aircraft out of the sky”), the capability of the SU-30SMs and even the SU-34s to shoot down Western 4th generation aircraft is not in doubt. The Russians have the resolve and the means.

But will the West take the Russian warnings seriously?

The Israeli counter example:

The contrast between the NATO countries and Israel could, in this case, not be bigger. Bibi Netanyahu, by far the most intelligent actor in the AngloZionist Empire, immediately traveled to Moscow to sit down with his Russian counterparts to hammer out some kind of deal which would allow the Russians and Israelis to pursue their objectives without risking a shootout. When the first Russian Air Force incursion into the Israeli airspace occurred the Israelis handled it as a completely harmless event. Israeli Defense Minister Ya’alon declared:

There was a slight intrusion a mile (1.6 kilometers) deep by a Russian plane from Syria into our airspace, but it was immediately resolved and the Russian plane returned towards Syria. It was apparently an error by the pilot who was flying near the Golan. Russian planes do not intend to attack us, which is why we must not automatically react and shoot them down when an error occurs”.

Later, an Ya’alon aide, General (res.) Amos Gilad, stated at a weekly event in Tel Aviv that Russian planes have occasionally crossed into Israeli airspace – but that the “very close cooperation between Russia and Israel” vis-a-vis operations in and around Syria had prevented any misunderstandings.

The counterpart on Russia side was just as obvious, if not officially admitted: when the Israelis bombed a Hezbollah weapons depot near Damascus the Russians “looked the other way”. Considering that almost at the same time Hezbollah operatives were risking their lives to rescue a downed Russian airman, this kind of deal is of less than exemplary morality, but Hezbollah people are also realists: just look at the way they put up with Assad even while he was torturing people for the CIA (the infamous “rendition” program) or when Imad Mughniyeh was murdered with obvious complicity of high-ranking members of the Assad regime). The leaders of Hezbollah understand what is happening here: like it or not, but Russia and Israel do have a “special relationship” which, while hardly a love fest, does include a unique combination of hard realism, often bordering on cynicism, and a mutual recognition that neither side wants an overt conflict. In this case, the Israelis were told in no uncertain terms that the Russian intervention to save the Syria from Daesh was not negotiable, but that Russia does not intend to protect Hezbollah from Israeli actions as long as these actions do not threaten the Russian objectives in Syria. Being a realist, Netanyahu took the deal.

Though there was some confusion about this, it is my understanding that while the Russians have deployed the S-400 in Syria, there is also some evidence that the Syrians were finally given at least some S-300 batteries and that they might have used them against the Israelis on at least one occasion. What is absolutely certain is that under international law the Syrians will have the right to shoot at any US, French, German, Turkish or other aircraft flying in Syrian airspace and that if that happens the countries in violation of international law will not have a legitimate self-defense argument to make. By extension, this also means that Russia does also have the right to shoot down any aircraft or land or sea based weapons system targeting Russian aircraft. Unfortunately, western politicians and propagandists (aka “journalists”) are going to extraordinary lengths to avoid ever even mentioning these facts. And if somebody dares to actually ask the right question, western officials have a fit. This is exactly what happened recently between RT reporter Gayane Chichakyan and State Department spokesman John Kirby. See for yourself:

The Iranian warning:

Russia is not the only country which has been repeatedly warning the West about the dangers of remaining stuck in a “Assad must go” policy: Iran has also repeated such warnings. The latest one came directly from the foreign policy advisor to the leader of Iran’s Islamic Revolution, Ali Akbar Velayati, who openly stated that Bashar al-Assad is Syria’s lawful president and that “Iran considers him as its redline”. Velayati also said that “only Syrian people, who elected Assad, are entitled to decide the future of their country (…) and no foreign country will be allowed to interfere in Syria’s internal affairs”. Furthermore, another senior Iranian official, Iran’s Parliamentary Speaker Ali Larijani, said thatRussia does not need prior agreement to use Iranian airspace to bomb sites in Syria” – in other words, such an agreement has already been negotiated. Considering that Larijani and Velayati are amongst the most influential and authoritative officials in Iran, one can only conclude that the Iranians are openly declaring that they are fully backing the Russian efforts in Syria. And that, in turn, means that Iran will send as many “boots on the ground” as needed to prevent Daesh from taking Damascus. This is the other crucial factor which the West is desperately trying not to think about.

The western narrative currently tries to show that it is Russia (and only Russia) which is keeping Assad in power. But this is completely false. The reality is that both Hezbollah and Iran are fully committed to preventing Daesh from overthrowing the Syrian government and their commitment has gone way further than words: Hezbollah has send hundreds of its best fighters to Syria and Iran has committed thousands of soldiers, mostly of the al-Quds Brigade, to the war in Syria. What this level of determination shows is that, just like Russia, Iran and Hezbollah have concluded that their vital, existential, interests are at risk and that they have no choice than to take the fight to Daesh. I believe that this assessment is absolutely correct.

So this is the key question here: do the deep state elites which run the US Empire understand that neither Russia, nor Iran or Hezbollah believe that they can back down and accept a Daesh victory in Syria? Do the western leader realize that Russia, Iran and Hezbollah cannot let the Empire overthrow Assad? Is there anybody out there who does not realize that the “Assad must go policy” implies a war against Russia, Iran and Hezbollah? The only way to avoid a war is to finally give up, even if that is initially denied publicly, on the “Assad must go” policy.

• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: Iran, NATO, Russia, Syria 
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  1. 5371 says:

    The Russian Defence Ministry has stated that it wasn’t the US that bombed the SAA camp in Deir el-Zor, but someone else to be revealed in due course.

  2. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:

    I think the next step will be for Iraq to invite Russia to help it secure its borders.

    Then we will see some interesting things.

    • Replies: @tbraton
  3. Tom_R says:


    Thanks for the article, Saker. We must not forget that this war in Syria is for a greater Israel. Israel has stolen land already from Syria, called the Golan Heights, which it must return. You are right—Jew-S-A and Jew-rope are breaking the law and using the “might is right” doctrine.

    The Judaists own and operate Obama and Jew-S-A and Jew-rope (= NATO). Their involvement in Syria is illegal as Congress has not authorized war. Obama is therefore a terrorist working for his gang-lords, the Jewish Oligarchs, like Soros and Saban and Sheldon.

    Besides imposing a no-fly zone over Syria, and granting nuclear weapons to N. Korea and Iran, etc. Putin/Russia can also give speeches at the UN and set up websites and news outlets aimed at the American public and the NATO military demanding that US congress impeach Obama for this illegal war and that this criminal be tried for his crimes. They can also remind the military of its duty to follow the law and refuse to follow illegal orders. This principle that the military must follow the law and refuse illegal orders and has a right and a duty to rebel, resign en-masse, go on a strike or engage in a mutiny or extirpation of commanders and crooked politicians who take bribes and are working as criminals and hitmen for Jewish Oligarchs are well established legal principles, several of which were affirmed during the Nuremberg trials. Russia can even educate the NATO military that Obama is an illegal alien posing as President (see and that all his orders are null and void and that they could be subject to criminal prosecution globally if they take part in this illegal war against Russia or Syria.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  4. tbraton says:

    ““There was a slight intrusion a mile (1.6 kilometers) deep by a Russian plane from Syria into our airspace, but it was immediately resolved and the Russian plane returned towards Syria. ” ”

    “The counterpart on Russia side was just as obvious, if not officially admitted: when the Israelis bombed a Hezbollah weapons depot near Damascus the Russians “looked the other way”. ”

    So an intrusion into Israeli airspace of about a mile by a Russian plane, which obviously did not represent a threat, justifies an intrusion of about 25-30 miles into Syrian airspace by an Israeli plane(s) which bombed and attacked a Hezbollah site? What about that supposed equation seems totally out of whack? It looks like the Russians are not especially good at negotiations if that is the best they can do. Why not a policy of overlooking modest Israeli intrusions of about a mile deep that clearly represent no threat to Syrian resources?

    • Agree: Kiza
  5. Realist says:

    The State Department Spokesman is a lying asshole, but that sure doesn’t set him apart from any government lackeys.

  6. tbraton says:
    @The most deplorable one

    I had the same thought. If the U.S. doesn’t take steps to “persuade” Turkey to remove those troops in Iraq, we might see that dangerous development take place. I’m sure Putin would love to repay Erdogan by legally wiping out his 5000 man force in Iraq. That would be TITS for tat. And what could Erdogan say after complaining so loudly about an air intrusion that lasted about 9 seconds and caused no harm to Turkey? Putin wouldn’t even have to risk any Russian planes. He could just hurl some missiles from the Caspian Sea.

  7. plantman says:

    Saker says: “What Putin is doing here is warning Turkey and, really all of NATO and the Empire that next time Russia will shoot back, immediately. This also shows that the authority shoot back has now been given to the Russian forces in Syria and that no top-level decision will have to be requested to return fire.”

    I think that this is why Kerry was asked to visit Moscow this week (which he accepted)
    I assume Putin wants him to fully understand what could happen if the US decides to continue its provocations.
    Unfortunately, the Pentagon is running its own show now, and it appears to be out of Obama’s control.
    Carter is a true neocon who is actively seeking a confrontation with Russia.
    God helps us all.

  8. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:

    The situation is in some ways better for Russia in Iraq as well, because they can ship supplies and troops across the Caspian and through Iran. Thus avoiding the Turkish controlled Bosphorus and Sea of Marmara.

    I imagine that Iran would give them the right to resupply that way, and then Iraq is right next to Syria.

  9. Avery says:

    {an air intrusion that lasted about 9 seconds}

    Our side needs to stop repeating Turk disinformation.
    There was no “intrusion”: the so-called “intrusion” is a Turk allegation.
    Russia has always maintained Su-24 was inside Syrian airspace when Turk backstabbers shot it down.

    Why would our side repeat Turkish lies ?
    Turks are nomads: they always lie.

    • Replies: @tbraton
    , @Hunsdon
  10. tbraton says:

    Correction to my prior post: “And what could Erdogan say after complaining so loudly about an air intrusion that lasted at most about 9 seconds and caused no harm to Turkey? ”

    Better, Avery? Even if you take the Turks at their own word, any possible intrusion was insignificant and did not come close to justifying the shoot down of the Russian bomber and the murder of the Russian pilot.

    • Replies: @AKAHorace
  11. I often wonder from results whether American policymakers are congenitally unable to think more than one move ahead, so chary are they of considering consequences. Any opposing side needs to take this psychological deficiency into consideration, in order not to miscalculate.

  12. Kiza says:

    It appears that Saker is back to his rant about the friendship between Israel and Russia. He calls the empire which is bringing the World to the brink of disaster the Anglo-Zionist (whilst it should be called Zio-Anglo Empire), but in the next paragraph he waxes lyrical about the eternal friendship between Israel and Russia.

    I can only say this – let us hope that the Russian leadership have wizened up after being shot down by Turkey (organized by US) and will not “turn their backs” again towards the enemy. If Russia turns its back to Israel, the damage will be a million times greater than a bomber shot down and two people dead.

    Turkey is like a cheap thief who breaks into the hen-house and runs away with all the newly laid eggs. Israel is like a thief who invades the whole farm and declares it legally his from now on.

    I am sorry to have to write this, but such Saker writing is just pure, unadulterated stupidity. I can only hope that he does not believe the crap he is writing, that is it just propaganda whilst Russia is getting ready to fight the whole Coalition of the Sponsors of Terrorism. Because they are coming (aircraft carriers and the rest).

    The Su-30M vs. Tornado is a silly and irrelevant discussion. Because the Coalition of the Sponsors of Terrorism will avoid facing Russia face-to-face, they will find somewhere another exposed back of Russia to attack.

    For example, I could imagine complete sea, land and air blockade around the Russian base in Syria within a few months, by the Western aircraft carriers, submarines, Turkish and Israeli planes and so on.

    • Replies: @RobinG
  13. Kiza says:

    It was really interesting to see a former US Admiral in the role of a spokesman for the US administration. He gave the RT journalist a good dressing down, as if it were a US marine standing in front of him, not a journalist from one of the few informative news agencies left – RT. It is an international scandal, but the US citizens are too stupid and to aggressive to even realize that the “admiral’s” behavior was terribly wrong. It is almost funny that the Russians think this was bad behavior, whilst their “US partners” think that the “admiral” is a genius and are laughing and rejoicing at what happened. I urge you to notice a dumb blond US journalist sitting in front of the RT journalist, how she looks back accusatively at the RT journalist for asking these challenging questions, which the US presstitutes would never even imagine asking (unless they had a death wish, like Michael Hasting).

    Should we not notice that the US are putting military men into positions totally unsuited to military thinking. Should we not notice the “admiral” Kirby’s eyes shining with hate and true madness (a text book nut case for an asylum, or a robot from the Terminator – instead he is managing US)? Should we not notice their excessive aggression towards anything Russian. Should we forget things that Gen. Breedlove has said. Should we, then, still imagine that the West is not at war with Russia?

    Ignore all these indicators at your own peril. They will find your weak points and they will attack “your back”.

    • Replies: @tbraton
  14. Priss Factor [AKA "The Priss Factory"] says: • Website

    That guy in the video says that US, unlike Russia, has press freedom and anyone can ask any question, but how come no one asks about America’s destruction of Libya and Syria?

    And where was the American free press when the Bush regime was lying its way into Iraq?
    And why is there utter silence on the homo question?

    When Jews say the ‘debate is over’, it really is over, and media follow like sheep.

    And why aren’t American journalists asking tough questions of the Obama regime?

    US and EU are Jew-homo controlled oligarchies.

    True, Russia is an oligarchy too with repressive media controls.

    But US is hardly better.

    According to law, US has free press.

    In practice, press is controlled by Jews.

    Hey, Rick Sanchez, baby. What happened to you for asking about Jewish power?

    • Replies: @5371
    , @Sherman
  15. Priss Factor [AKA "The Priss Factory"] says: • Website

    Jews destroyed Iraq.

    Jews destroyed Libya.

    Jews destroyed Ukraine.

    Jews destroyed Syria.

    What a vile people.

    Jews messed up the Muslim world and unleashed the refugee crisis.

    But what is their message?

    Europe has to take in millions of Muslims… or else Europeans are Nazis.

    A truly hideous and vile people.

    Just look at the nasty rat-countenance of Victoria Nuland and her ilk.


  16. First of all I would like to stress that I have no vested interests except in my own survival. I am just making some observations, hopefully correct. I am not sure what the true relationship between Russia and Israel is but if the Russians really allow the Israelis to bomb Hezbollah, one of the forces instrumental in fighting Daesh on the ground, and according to some reports even Syrian army positions, then I must ask a question. What is their point in bombing Daesh ? Not to mention that to launch a million dollar cruise missile in order to eliminate a guy in a pick up truck is a waste of money and effort. One minute he is here the next minute he is somewhere else. Unlike most people I see Putin as someone who acts without much forethought. He was caught with his pants down in Ukraine and he only intervened in Syria when Assad was about to fall. After ten weeks of bombing he has achieved very little. He has been waging an unequal, half hearted contest with the West which in my opinion he can only loose. By the way what has happened to the vaunted Russian electronic capabilities which were supposed to blind western weapon systems. It did not seem to work when the Turks shot down the Russian bomber.

    • Replies: @Ben_C
  17. Greg Bacon says: • Website

    Invading nations that Israel wants destroyed so the Zionists can expand Israel is what ‘exceptional’ people do, that’s why we’re exceptional, and above the law. Besides, all this death and destruction is making tons of money for those ‘Too Big to Fail’ Wall Street banks who, if you haven’t noticed, are on pretty thin ice AGAIN, for taking some of the same dumb ass risks that led to the 2008 blowup, so they need all the blood money they can get before we bail them out again.

    People we’ve bombed and shelled to death don’t hate us for destroying their nation and murdering their families, they hate us because we have so many freedoms or something.

    Yes, freedom to act like arrogant, rude, murderous assholes and blast to Hell and gone ME and African nations to rid the world of something or the other, forgot this week’s brand name of the boogieman.

    And any that would dare defend their family or country, why they’re just terrorists who don’t follow the rules like we always do, and so we execute them by the dozens every day.

    Yes, it’s good to be the King!

    • Agree: Seamus Padraig
  18. unit472 says:

    If you drill down beyond Russian threats and bluster and look at the actual forces in the region you see that there are three nations with much larger ground and air forces. Israel, Saudi Arabia and Turkey. The USAF and Navy also deploys substantial air power over the area.

    Russia has what, a few dozen fighters and fighter bombers deployed at a single airbase and despite the impressive operational tempo of the Russian force the actual military gains made by the Assad regime on the ground appear quite modest. There is also the almost certain danger that, at some point, Daesh or another opposition rebel force will conduct a suicide or other terrorist strike at Russian personnel or installations and then what?

    For how long can Russia afford to continue its current effort much less expand it.

  19. Rehmat says:

    On November 20, UK’s newspaper The Guardian published an Op-Ed written by Brig. General (ret) Michael Herzog, in which the baby-killer said that Israel is not interested in a diplomatic solution to Syrian bloodshed as it would keep power in the hands of Syrian president Bashar al-Assad who is an ally of both Iran and Lebanese resistance Hizbullah.

    Herzog also asserted that ISIS is a terrorist group, but it doesn’t pose any threat to Israel. He said the real ‘existential’ threat to Israel is Hizbullah which has nearly 100,000 rockets and shares common borders with Israel. He also claimed that as result of the US-Iran nuclear agreement, Hizbullah has been further emboldened.

    “Israelis judge developments in Syria first and foremost in the context of the danger posed by the Iranian-led axis – including Hizbullah and its 100,000 rockets aimed at Israel – which continues to pose by far the greater strategic threat to Israel, and is emboldened by the nuclear deal,” Herzog said.

    “ISIS is not focused on Israel, and is therefore not considered by Israelis to be a direct and immediate strategic threat to them. From an Israeli perspective, the gravest strategic threat still comes from the Iranian-led axis,” Herzog added.

    Herzog, as a coward, cannot face the reality that Israeli army posses nuclear-equipped submarines, F16s, tanks, US-financed Iron Dome, 177,000 soldiers and 445,000 military reserve. Israel has an annual military budget of \$17 billion not to include \$3 billion US military aid. Contrary to that Hizbullah has no jet, no tank, no naval boat, and less than 5,000 fighters and total operational budget of less than \$180 million. But Hizbullah still beat the hell out of Jewish army in 2000 and 2006 ……..

    • Replies: @perry
  20. geokat62 says:

    Their involvement in Syria is illegal as Congress has not authorized war.

    Even if Congress had authorized it, it still would’ve been illegal under international law to invade Syria, as attacking Syria requires a UNSC resolution authorizing it, just as one was required for invading Iraq.

    But I can’t blame you for missing this as the presstitute stays completely silent about AngloZionist violations of international law, but when Ruusia gets involved in the Ukrainian imbroglio, they scream bloody murder.

    But, hey, when you follow the doctrine of “might is right,” who cares if you are guilty of double standards, especially when no one in the presstitute will call you out on it.

    • Agree: Richard S
  21. Anonyman says:

    If Russia participates in Iraq then its forces will be drawn out and it may face the second Afghanistan. While spending billions on propping up Assad, Russia was hit by low oil prices and economic sanction. Public morale is still high (similar to a few months or years after Iraq and Afghanistan War), but I wonder how long Russian people will see Russia’s role in Middle East as a benefit to the country. Putin needs to find a way to extricate himself from fighting in multiple fields (Syria and Iraq, not to mention Eastern Ukraine) against multiple opponents (Turkey, Sunni kingdoms and NATO). Resources wise, Iran and Russia are far weaker than their enemies.

    I wonder whether China will decide to play a role in Syria and Iraq as a pay back for American shaming of China by passing through the Spratly island bases. Its participation may help relieve Russian forces, but it will be considered as an open declaration of war and therefore, it is unlikely that she will participate openly. Regardless of their newfound love for each other, Russia and China do not trust each other enough to form a bloc (understandable considering their history of hostility to each other)

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  22. 5371 says:

    This asshole Kirby talks like a small-time hoodlum out of a Tarantino movie, not an important government official.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  23. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:

    For how long can Russia afford to continue its current effort much less expand it.

    Long enough for the US to collapse from over exertion.

    How easy is it to find competent crews for those submarines, aircraft carriers, etc?

    In pursuit of their ridiculous goals they are removing competent men from the forces.

    Then, of course, there is this:

    • Replies: @A Pseudonymic Handle
  24. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    China IS playing a role in the Syrian war. They are building the one belt one road infrastructure. That may not sound like a lot compared to Russias contribution, but you have to remember that the reason the Anglo-Zionist empire wants Syria so bad is for its strategic location with pipelines.

    They seek to use geography to box in both China and Russia and force a unipolar world. Denying Syria to the empire and building the one belt one road project will do the opposite. It will ensure a multipolar world.

    So China and Russia are in a sense playing good cop bad cop in the region. Russia is in conflict with Turkey, Qatar, and Saudi Arabia, but China can not allow to be in conflict with these countries as they are needed to complete the project. And these countries cannot afford to lose the economic benefits of the project, so they cooperate with China against the wishes of the empire. This is asymmetric warfare and it will be needed to win.

    For China to enter the war would just mean they would be seen as the enemy by the same countries that are antirussian and it would not change anything on the ground. Showing the world a Chinese Russian behemoth would just play right into the empires hands as they could use that to scare nato countries to enter the war.

    When China was threatened by the US in the south China seas, Russia did not support China by sending its own ships to dock in the port as a show of strength. This is not because of mistrust or lack of support. It is just smart decision making. The empire wants to provoke extreme responses so they can escalate themselves. The key to winning will be restraint and patience. Not escalation and overreaction.

    • Agree: SolontoCroesus
  25. RobinG says:

    You said, “It appears that Saker is back to his rant about the friendship between Israel and Russia. He calls the empire which is bringing the World to the brink of disaster the Anglo-Zionist (whilst it should be called Zio-Anglo Empire), but in the next paragraph he waxes lyrical about the eternal friendship between Israel and Russia.”

    This is just not true. He never even uses the word friendship. He calls their relationship realistic, nearly cynical. Nothing lyrical about it.

    And Turkey isn’t just making off with the eggs. The Turks may be positioning to carve out a piece of Syria/Iraq for themselves and/or the Kurds. Is this the real reason they’re ‘training’ the Peshmerga? On Friday, Iraq requested UNSC to order Turkish troops out.

    What is your beef with Saker that you want to mischaracterize his analysis? Other folks here (annamarina?) have alluded to the complexity of the Russian/Israeli relationship, but Saker (in this article — I’m making no claims about everything he may ever have written) doesn’t even do that. This is a strange time to be lashing out at someone from your own camp.

    • Replies: @Kiza
  26. 5371 says:
    @Priss Factor

    At his annual news conferences Putin gets asked more hostile questions than Obama does at his.

  27. Hunsdon says:

    Avery said: Turks are nomads: they always lie.

    Hunsdon said: The British are merchants. They always lie.

    Hunsdon continued: Avery, making broad brush statements like that make you look like a fool. At least you didn’t throw in the “coming from Uigherstan” BS you usually do, so there is that to give thanks for.

  28. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:

    Avery said: Turks are nomads: they always lie.

    Hunsdon said: The British are merchants. They always lie.

    Yes, indeed. The real question is to who do they lie and when.

    Of course, there are pattern. It’s a matter of knowing them.

  29. @Fran Macadam

    so because of the morons and idiots at DC, the other countries are suppose to always step back when dealing with USA?

    I don’t think russia and china are that accommodating. They are already partners in dealing with the usa. russia is taking the brunt of the american attention atm while china builds it’s strength.

  30. Sherman says:
    @Priss Factor

    You seem to know quite a bit about Jews and homos.

    I bet you’re a Jewish homo.

    • Replies: @5371
  31. 5371 says:

    The originality of your rhetorical ploys, Sugar Lips Sherm, never ceases to astound me.

    • Replies: @Sherman
    , @Carroll Price
  32. joe webb says:

    seems like a pretty good analysis .

    I for one, would like a discussion of the largest national interests of Russia, etc. Given that the US, whether or not it is an anglo-zio empire , has no rational national interest in the area, that should suggest that the US will be very careful. Russia certainly has an interest if for no other reason than that it is in its neighborhood.

    Russia needs no oil, it has its own. Rationality wants stability, or a coherent policy at least that fundamentally compasses its strategic interests.

    The only reason the US is meddling is , from a rational perspective, Israel.

    All the loose talk about Empire lacks clarity and political science. Does Russia have an Empire? No but it has its interests. Does the US have an Empire? We got a thousand bases or so, but is that an Empire? All the talk about ideological hegemony….there is something to that…and the American Liberal Model is failing, as in Europe today. Can there be an Empire without ideological hegemony? Not really.

    Finally, the threats of Islam for Russia are very real. It appears to be walking a tightrope with regard to Chechnian Islamists, and others, like Turkey.

    It would seem that the US and Russia have the same interest, to contain at least radical Islam.

    Joe Webb

    • Replies: @Drapetomaniac
    , @annamaria
  33. joe webb says:

    upon further thought, while it is OK to write about incidentals, the larger question may be begged by the saker.

    The larger question includes radical Islam. As I recall, the saker has a MLK and a Cuba bit on his website home page. I have remarked before that he is therefore some kind of true believer in racial equality…this also from a couple emails I had with him a year to two ago. He may even be paleo-communist somehow, like Israel Shamir, dialectically overcoming apparent contradictions of Christianity and communism, I guess by concluding that God is a communist.

    He was aghast that I was a White Nationalist and even reprimanded me for saying that I had “married down”, meaning that as mine was a marriage at 19 and that there was ultimately a mis-match, including intelligence and that….you know.

    So he may be avoiding a serious encounter with radical Islam due to his ecumenism…Brotherhood of Man stuff. He refused to discuss racial matters, but did as I recall, recount his personal discussion with Richard Lynn somewhere (IQ and Global Inequality.) When I say he refused to discuss race, more accurately, he completely denied racial inequality.

    So full disclosure from the saker would include his reticence to think bad thoughts about Islam.
    This is further complicated, I think, by his own religious convictions which I guess are Russian Orthodox. Apparently he does not want to talk about 1453, was it? and so on.

    Just oppose the Anglo-Zio Empire and everything will be OK. right?

    Joe Webb

  34. Excellent analysis. I’m curious why Saker thinks Iran’s support of Assad would translate to it providing ground troops. Have they hinted at this? I cannot recall Iran ever providing troops for the defense of another regime.

  35. Art says:

    Stop dreaming — China is not going to get into a war in the ME – end of story.

    There is only one possible way out of this – that is diplomacy – and that is not going to happen. The Zionists and Wahhabists do not want that.

    The end game is that the Jew want more of Syria and Lebanon and the Sunni want to control the rest. There will be no peace. Saudi can pump endless cheap oil and the Jew can pump the American people.

    Only Trump can change directions.

  36. @joe webb

    “It would seem that the US and Russia have the same interest, to contain at least radical Islam.”

    Sorry, the psychopaths running the US and Israel are a far greater and more immediate threat.

  37. Avery says:

    {Hunsdon said: The British are merchants. They always lie.}
    Is it not strange for a poster to write about himself/herself in the 3rd person ?

    {Hunsdon continued: Avery, making broad brush statements like that make you look like a fool. }. “Hunsdon continued” (!): Really. And I am the fool ?

    {At least you didn’t throw in the “coming from Uigherstan” BS you usually do, so there is that to give thanks for.}
    Sorry, my mistake: was a bit tired;forgot. Ask Hunsdon to take back the “thanks”, if you please. Avery says “Thanks”.

    Here you go: Uyguroğlar Turk descendants of savage nomadic Turkic tribes from Uyguristan are thieving, lying, genocidal liars. They always lie. (one qualification: super majority; not all; those who are still nomads in their character. the denialist super-majority of Turks).

  38. Sherman says:

    Glad you’ve been paying attention to me

  39. annamaria says:
    @Fran Macadam

    Unfortunately, the only way for the not-too-bright and spoiled children to get a message is through a sufficient whipping. From a comment section for the same article on Saker, by Peter:
    “How many of these US clowns/politicians/Pentagonians are trapped in their own matrix and believe what they are saying? The only thing that will bring the US back to earth is a massive defeat where they lose large numbers of citizens in an attack on their “homeland” similar to what Russia and China went through in WWII.”

  40. annamaria says:

    A pathetic end of Kirby’s career. If he a veritable sampling of the US uniformed, the things are really bad.

  41. annamaria says:
    @joe webb

    “It would seem that the US and Russia have the same interest, to contain at least radical Islam.”

    Unfortunately, the facts on the ground tell unequivocally that the US have been the main agitator for radical Islam (see the destruction of Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria and tender relationships between the US and royal Wahabists), which cannot be said about Russian Federation. For years, the RF tried hard to integrate into the family of “western democracies” only to find that the US are no democracy and, most important, that Russia is not welcomed into the “family” but is targeted as a host for the US’ industrial and financial parasitoids. The parasitoids are very irritated that the intended victim does not want to succumb immediately but shows resistance. Whether the violation of trust and expansion of NATO to the RF borders, or the US-sponsored color revolutions in the former soviet republics (and the antidemocratic and neo-Nazi-infested putsch in Ukraine), the parasitoids bid their time and wait for a moment when the victim becomes sufficiently weak to be devoured. Here is the horror of the situation: the parasitoids (US) are not able to stop, whereas the intended victim (Russia) could deploy a truly lethal weaponry against the parasitoids, as a last resort.

    • Replies: @Kiza
  42. Kiza says:

    Firstly, let me explain that I am in no-ones “camp”. I am not Russian, I do not speak Russian and I have never even been to Russia (except in transit through Sheremetyevo). Russia is in my heart, but not in my mind. This gives me a rather independent perspective on the situation.

    Secondly, I am an analyst like Saker, I have been analyzing data for more than 30 years. I am not as good an analyst as Saker on the topics that Saker covers, but unlike Saker, I am not biased at all. For example, I do not suffer from wishful thinking regarding Russia.

    Thirdly, having lived in the West (like you) for the majority of my life, I do understand how ruthless and unprincipled the Westerners are. They talk about principles all the time, for example, the responsibility-to-protect and the like, all the while stuffing their pockets up with other peoples’ property.

    By now, it should be obvious that I lay claim to being more objective about the ongoing conflict between the West and Russia. It is a proxy war, in which Israel (and its Zionist fifth column in all Western countries) is the enemy, US is Israel’s proxy, Turkey is a US proxy, ISIS and Al Qaeda are the US, Turkish and Saudi proxies and so on. The Russians appear as brainwashed about Israel’s capability as all of the West is (by propaganda). For me Israel is a Borg, a war robot hive which keeps repeating a propaganda slogan “you will be defeated and assimilated”, but it is much weaker and much less capable than claimed by its propaganda BS. Thus, Saker is writing with too much respect and understanding of Israel, although he has never used my word “friendship” that you criticized.

    Russia fooled itself, by signing so many mutually beneficial contracts with Turkey, that Turkey will not take a direct military action against Russia. Russia signed an air-force coordination contract with NATO and assumed that NATO would honor what was signed. Another huge miscalculation. I have predicted a false-flag on a Russian force in Syria at Saker’s “week one of the Russian intervention”, by Turkey or by US. My scenario looked different only because I was not aware that the Russians were sending bombers with neither fighter escort, nor AWACS coverage (unbeliveable). This was simply an invitation for the Coalition to stab Russia in the back, a complete multi-layer miscalculation.

    I am still against the Russian intervention in Syria. Saker was against it before it had started, but then turned around to see positives of it (as he should). I did not. I still think that defending Syria from the Coalition of the Sponsors of Terrorism was a wrong move. Lake Saker before, I still believe that Syria is outside of the Russia-China protective envelope and thus cannot be defended well under even a medium-case scenario (let alone a worst-case). I do strongly believe that the Coalition will keep “harassing” the Russians in Syria to create conditions similar to Afghanistan (it cannot be the same, because there is no Russian ground force). Thus the harassment will be in the air and on the sea (bombed civilian airliner, shot-down jet, civilian boats ramming Russian navy ships, submarines shadowing the Russian ships and so on). In other words, the West will create a long-term exhaustive war on Russia, not an all-out battle. Russia is now stuck in Latakia “forever” and will be bleeding slowly.

    I predict the next “incident” on the sea – a Russian boat or submarine destroyed.

    I hope you will understand that this is not what I wish to happen, but this is what has been planned by the Coalition to happen. The only thing which could save Russia from the long war scenario is a financial collapse of the West, or the West losing patience with its own plan and going to open war.

    • Replies: @RobinG
  43. Sean says:

    Is there anybody out there who does not realize that the “Assad must go policy” implies a war against Russia, Iran and Hezbollah?

    Yes, the majority of the Syrian people who are being attacked by Russia, Iran and Hezbollah for the sin of wanting to chose who rules Syria.

    The only way to avoid a war is to finally give up,

    The opponents of Assad will never give up because he has caused the death and displacement of millions of Syrians in a futile attempt to hang onto total power against the wishes of the vast majority of the population.

  44. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:

    Stop dreaming — China is not going to get into a war in the ME – end of story.

    I think you are correct, although I would have said that China is extremely unlikely to get into a war in the ME at this time.

    However, I could see the Chinese helping Russia out with materiel.

    I could only see China going to war if, say, the US and Vietnam conclude an agreement to base US bombers on a Vietnamese air base or US ships in a Vietnamese port.

    • Agree: Kiza
  45. Kiza says:

    The parasitoids are not the US, then the Zio-Anglo elite concentrated in the US, the 0.01%-ers. It is just sad that the most US citizens are terribly, terribly brainwashed and do not even understand who is ruling them towards the edge of abyss. This elite has created and has been using the Islamic Extremism for many years. The propaganda is so powerful that no-one can now even imagine a World without Islamic extremism and fanaticism, whilst all they would have to imagine is a World without Israel and without US troops and bases all over the Middle East (for example, drones as a recruitment tool for extremism). I have written many times that Guantanamo Bay camp is a re-education camp, to turn extremists opposed to this elite into the tool of this elite. Also, the West even allowed ISIS Raqqafellers to trade more than \$1B in oil, to create powerful enough extremist organization. We know very well that in every targeted country the US firstly bombs the oil reserves, to disable the military movements of the defenders, but in Syria they completely ignored not only the ISIS military fuel than even an extensive cross-border trade in oil. I wonder why? Is it by chance that, after ISIS, Turkey and Israel benefited the most from the oil stolen from Syria and Iraq?

    That anyone would even consider that US and Russia have the same interest regarding Islamic extremists, just proves that most Westerners live in the cuckoo propaganda land. You are taking such fools too seriously.

  46. AKAHorace says:

    Didn’t the Syrians have even less provocation when they shot down a Turkish plane in 2012 ? I am not saying that two wrongs make a right, but the first incident may explain why they shot down the Russian airplane.

  47. tbraton says:

    “I urge you to notice a dumb blond US journalist sitting in front of the RT journalist, how she looks back accusatively at the RT journalist for asking these challenging questions, which the US presstitutes would never even imagine asking (unless they had a death wish, like Michael Hasting).”

    I noticed the same thing myself. I clicked on the linked video, not realizing that I seen it before, so I noticed things that I missed the first time (because I was so absorbed in admiring the very attractive RT reporter from Armenia, who, btw, asked very good questions that the uniformed dummy found so difficult to answer).

    • Replies: @Kiza
  48. RobinG says:

    Maybe I’ve misread you. I thought you were kind of anti-war, anti-imperialism, but apparently you think only nations or nationalities can have camps. Also, if you think Russia made a mistake, why do you say, “but then turned around to see positives of it (as he should)”. Why should he? Because you see him in a Russian camp? I think he’s in a truth and justice camp. I haven’t read Saker enough to know how much I agree with him, but he doesn’t seem any more biased than you are.

    There’s a lot of one-upsmanship here at UR, and many who just want to argue for the sake of it. (I never thought RTW would have gone to the mat over his ‘3rd witness’ video. Generally I like RTW, so that was sad.) That doesn’t strike me as useful, especially when they accidentally or on purpose latch onto and misinterpret some detail, then rail on and on about it.

    I’ve wanted to get back to you about RTW’s German letter. Later.

    • Replies: @Kiza
  49. Kiza says:

    Yes, I am anti-imperialism and anti-war and yes, I do think Saker is slightly pro-Russian. Apart from a small bias, this does not diminish his premium quality analysis. Also, there are no Western equivalents of Saker, because the Western analysis is a complete joke – just like all the rest of intelligence, the analysis is almost always cooked up (for career advancement). Remember the scandal of the 50 CIA analysts writing an open letter about their superiors changing their assessments on ISIS damage? Thus, I would not be surprised if the Western decision makers followed Saker.

    My only “beef” with Saker are his stories about the relationship (ok, let us not call it friendship) between Russia and Israel. I do understand that Russia does not want to confront Israel, because the Zionists are considered the single most powerful group in the World. But, this is a relationship in which one side will end up blooded, I am pretty sure which one (are the Russians capable of learning anything – who established communism in Russia?).

    Importantly, I do not intend to say that everyone in Israel is bad, but a country which has a leadership such as the Israeli one, does not deserve any slack. It is the Israelis who have the power to remove the Zionists, because only they cannot be accused of anti-semitism. If they cannot, then they can leave Israel (and many have). Those who remain, since they did not remove the crazies from power, they are fully complicit in the unending Ziocon crime spree.

    BTW, I wrote on multiple occasions, that I would actually love the West for its many good points if there were not so much lying in it. It is not oil, it is the lying which is the main fuel the West runs on. And it is the Zio-Anglo elite which controls the supply of this fuel to the masses.

    As to “one-upsmanship” and “argue for the sake of it” here, you are being a bit too pedantic and too sensitive. Nobody can pass your criteria, except maybe yourself. Nevertheless, I am still interested to read your view of the RTW letter to Bundestag. I do believe that the Germans have a wish for independence from the Zio-Anglos and that this should be encouraged, although they are almost under the same degree of control (through the CIA control over BND) as the US Congress and Senate, where you want to run your anti-war initiative.

  50. geokat62 says:

    … where you want to run your anti-war initiative.

    I’ve already got two names (geokat62 and S2C) down on the march to DC list. Should I add a third?

    • Replies: @Kiza
  51. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Best site? Certainly

  52. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:

    Yes, I am anti-imperialism and anti-war

    You should refer to Jerry Pournelle’s There Will Be War series.

    You can get them in Kindle format, among others, from Castalia House.

    I am told that Volume X will be out soon as well.

    • Agree: Kiza
  53. RobinG says:

    Actually, a great many “pass my criteria”, starting with Ron Unz. In this thread alone there are at least 5 prime examples. They try to add something to the discussion, write clearly, and get right to the point. I have no problem with argument, as long as the poster isn’t fabricating a reason to argue. And it’s not a matter of agreement, either. Doubtful I agree with anyone completely, but even those whose opinions I detest occasionally say something great, or timely, imo. We do all have to live together, unless you line people up and kill them like ISIL or the Bolshies. (Geo’s ‘list’ would be handy for that, lol.)

    You said, “It is the Israelis who have the power to remove the Zionists, because only they cannot be accused of anti-semitism.” Hmmm… Israelis like Gideon Levy and Miko Peled are demonized as anti-Semitic self-hating Jews, even as traitors b/c they are Israeli. (You can really get into trouble throwing around absolutes.) Anyway, most Israelis are horrible. They drank the Kool-Ade in their mothers’ milk. The ones who aren’t die-hard racists go along with the tribe due to peer pressure.

    I hope Israel will be dismantled peacefully, by some combination of conscience and realism from within and coordinated pressure from the outside. Here’s a speech in Sri Lanka by Miko-

    United Nations day for Solidarity with Palestine 2015

    • Replies: @Kiza
  54. Kiza says:

    Sorry, I am not a US citizen. Otherwise, I would definitely join you. Sincere wishes for the success of your anti-war initiative.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  55. Kiza says:

    Could not agree more my friend, I do not like blonds anyway. The RT journalist is both smart and gorgeous looking.

    Sorry, I lost a letter off the dead US journalist’s name, it is Michael Hastings. When I read his article on McCrystal and his military mafia in the Rolling Stone, I head that cold feeling in my stomach about someone’s impending death. It is funny and sad how most US citizens to this day do not understand that war is a mafia business, where the elite pumps up the nation into a war fervor, gives zillions of borrowed & freshly printed dollars to their military hit man, who then hit some nation or group. When exposed, the same military mafia will hit upon a domestic journalist as if he were an Afghani peasant in a drone turkey shoot.

    This time I urge everyone to observe a difference between the hit on Michael Hastings and the hit on Gary Webb. The hit on Michael Hastings was a military grade, rough hit, an exploding Mercedes (believe that). Gary Webb appears to have been driven to suicide by the CIA and by the abandonment by his peers. Put in that context, it is easy to understand why the dumb blond journalist in front of RT journalist looks so accusatively: this is exactly how his peers looked down on Gary Webb.

    The dumb blond could always charm some State Department official and end up like Christiane Amanpour, a journalist married into the Zio-executive branch. Much better than an exploding Mercedes, isn’t it?

    • Replies: @Avery
  56. Art says:

    Iraqis Fear US Backs Turkish Land Grab in Mosul Region

    The land grab is already in progress!

  57. Kiza says:

    Well, I have not changed my opinion about your sensitivity. I can only conclude that we want the same thing, only the words and the actions to get there are different. Yes, I am much rougher in my criticism. I have read this same story from Saker, about Russia-Israel relationship/friendship three times over the past year. This is too much for my taste, and this is why I used the s- word. Enough is enough. Russia may be letting Israel bomb Hezbollah, Iranians and Syrians in Syria (based on an agreement between Putin and Nutty Yahoo), or it may be that the Russian air-defenses are being successfully jammed by the Israelis (probably the S300 delivered to the Syrians rather than the S400 which the Russians use). But I will always have an issue with the claims of good relationship, how Israel did not shoot-down the Russian plane when they brushed off the Israeli air-space by 1 km, and how Russia replaced Turkish vegetables with the Israeli ones. Because mafia capo dei capi does not get his hands dirty like his street gorilla, Turkey (thus, my two different types of thieves). Israel will probably get its premium gorilla – the US military to do the next hit on Russia, or one of the other, lesser gorillas. Why would capo get his hands dirty when he has all these enforcers of his will?

    • Agree: geokat62
    • Replies: @RobinG
  58. geokat62 says:

    Sorry, I am not a US citizen.

    Neither am … I’m Canadian. But I wouldn’t miss a DC protest that is branded as a Declaration of Independence from Israel for the world…. unless they prevented me from crossing the border, that is. Heck I would drive down with my entire family just to beef up the numbers a bit.

    Tell you what, how cool would it be if the most prolific commenters at UR – like you, S2C, AnnaMarina, Rurik, Art, Sam, Avery, Seamus, KA, Fran, tbraton, Jr., and RobinG (if we can get him away from those Citizen delegations to the state offices) – were to converge on DC. Hey, I would even offer to treat this baker’s dozen to a cup of coffee as an inducement for showing up.

    Anyone up for a coffee in DC on me?

    • Replies: @Kiza
  59. Avery says:

    {The RT journalist is both smart and gorgeous looking.}

    Go Gayane: Love you.
    Gayane and RT Editor Margerita Simonyan kicking wrinkled, dips____t anti-Christian filthy Neocon butt.

    Love our Armenian women: they make our ancestors proud.

    • Agree: Kiza
  60. annamaria says:

    “It is the Israelis who have the power to remove the Zionists…”

    It sounds a little bit naive. The big boys that play their Zion games care not about ordinary Israelis, the same way the “exceptional nation” plutocracy is totally indifferent towards the US’ citizenry.
    As for the relationships between RF and Israel, there used to be a lot of noise about antisemitism in the Soviet Union. Two critical observations: 1. the important role of Jews in destroying the old Russian civilization during their prominent participation in the Bolshevik revolution. 2. the unordinary high presence of Jews among the bosses in the Soviet academia, heavy industries, research, medicine, government, and even in the army. These observations tell about a veritable ethnic tolerance in the former Soviet Union.
    The considerable presence of the former Soviets in Israel makes a paradoxical situation when the dreamland of Zionists is inhabited by a lot of people with strong Russian cultural roots. Lets hope that there are enough of sane and noble minds in Israel to make some educational impact on the viciously anti-Russian Israel-firsters in DC. The Kagans, Feiths, Kristols and such gave bad name to Jews everywhere.

    • Agree: Kiza
  61. Kiza says:

    Geo, I would love to befriend you in person. But a live in a distant foreign country (Australia) and I may as well be on a do-not-let-in US list. I could fly many thousands of km/miles and find out that I cannot enter US. I write this because I have read multiple instances of people being on the no-fly or no-entry lists just because they are antiwar and/or against the Ziocon Military-Industrial-Media complex. On top, I have been to US many times and I have no wish to even try to come to US again, neither for business nor for anti-war activism. It is simply a totally dull place. Canada is a bit better than the US, like a softer version of the US, except for magnificent Quebec.

    I would also love to meet and befriend almost all of the people on your list, excluding Fran, because this cultured and knowledgeable person once wrote something about “the Greeks getting it the Greek way”.

    Unrelated to your invitation, I would be very curious to travel to Israel and check out the place in social, historical and ethnic terms, a mix of cultures which speak Hebrew. The Jewish culture is one of the oldest surviving. As I wrote many times, I sincerely admire Jewish achievements, but can never swallow Zionist crimes. I want to experience the place myself, instead of relying on reading about it. I hope to do this one day soon.

    My full and sincere support for your anti-war activities.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  62. perry says:

    you seem rly upset that 1.6 billion muslims constantly lose to a couple million jews.

  63. geokat62 says:

    I would also love to meet and befriend almost all of the people on your list, excluding Fran, because this cultured and knowledgeable person once wrote something about “the Greeks getting it the Greek way”.

    Is this true, Fran? And here I thought you were an advocate of non-violence. Given my Hellenic roots, I’m afraid it’s no coffee for you… I wouldn’t want to offend the Greek coffee gods.

    • Replies: @Kiza
  64. Kiza says:

    Ron Unz is up there with those Ancient Greek Gods – every commenter gets a non-repudiatable track record on his zine.
    But the mentioned Greek Way does not necessarily involve violence.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  65. Bliss says:

    It is the Israelis who have the power to remove the Zionists, because only they cannot be accused of anti-semitism.

    There would be no Israelis if there were no Zionists. You know that, right?

    Why are practically all jew-haters anti-zionism? Zionism wants jews to leave your countries and come to Israel, a tiny sliver of resource-poor land in the middle-east carved out of the defeated Ottoman Empire…along with Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon etc. Why begrudge them that tiny refuge?

    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @RobinG
  66. RobinG says:

    A Special Relationship: The United States is teaming up with Al Qaeda, again. – Andrew Cockburn/Harper’s Magazine

    Well, I want to post this article in Harpers by Andrew Cockburn. (If you have a subscription, you can read it at Harper’s.) Aren’t you one of those ragging on the various Cockburn brothers? There’s plenty here for you to get all indignant about. For starters, he analyzes Syria and the whole ME without once mentioning Israel, and although he talks about the Soviet Union in Afghanistan, he doesn’t mention Russia either!

    Despite these omissions, there are pearls and nuggets strewn throughout. I’m sure all you 30-year analysts will find it very boring old news, but the main point is that this is published by a major US periodical, read by main stream public types. They have to start somewhere. Maybe you never converse with the great masses, so believe me, they don’t know this stuff. And I’m talking about college educated masses, who don’t know that Wahhabis are in SA, never heard the word takfiri, don’t know that nobody was killed when Russia annexed Crimea, etc., etc.

    This article states at length the folly of enabling Islamists with political and military weapons, from Charlie Wilson thru DAESH. It addresses CIA culpability. A person has to have a modicum of interest to read anything at all, but this might be a good place to start for someone shy of ‘alternative media’. And it comes at a propitious time, because yes, I am still promoting H.R.4108.

    Now, as far as my sensitivity, it is irrelevant. Perhaps you missed the point of my original post. You’ve declared that you don’t want to be in any camp (could I say coalition?), but I think it is you and the Saker who essentially “want the same thing, only the words and the actions to get there are different”. Some isolated individuals have achieved political goals, I guess, but it’s pretty difficult.

    • Replies: @geokat62
    , @Kiza
  67. mikhas says:

    “When the first Russian Air Force incursion into the Israeli airspace occurred” Occupied Syrian airspace actually (Golan) and UN recognize it as such.

    Also, the absence of the tiresome “flag waving, hurra patriots” in this piece is freshening, maybe we can get down to the subject matter henceforth.

    The development is indeed serious but let´s not forget that it was Russia who invited the western fascists in the first place, during the G20 meeting in Antalaya, Turkey after which NATO (in reality) shot down the Russian plane. Prior to that no NATO forces was anywhere near Syrian territorial waters or land. Now they are all over the place in an increasing pace and NATO is moving it´s infrastructure further to the front-line.

    Was Russia really that naive, to believe that the west, all over sudden, could be trusted to play by the rules, int. laws, regulations and UN resolutions? Do Russia have full control over the situation? The word mission creep comes to mind and bombing the Syrian army right under the Russian nooses was, after the US continuous bombing of Syrian civilian infrastructure the most brazen “in your face” attack so far especially since it is suggested that the US war planes provided cover for another so far undisclosed member of their “coalition”, possibly Syrian arch enemy Qatar, that did the actual bombing. Now the US is even accusing Russia for the attack and from now on we can expect them to attack & deny in the same fashion.

    It is with utmost interest i am following these developments and i do hope that Russia dont accept too many “accidents” like these before the NFZ is established for any part not not invited by the Syrian government. Otherwise al it takes is a false flag and the R2P charade is back in full swing.

    • Agree: Kiza
  68. Ben_C says:
    @Regnum Nostrum

    Unlike most people I see Putin as someone who acts without much forethought. He was caught with his pants down in Ukraine and he only intervened in Syria when Assad was about to fall. After ten weeks of bombing he has achieved very little. He has been waging an unequal, half hearted contest with the West which in my opinion he can only loose.


    I suppose there could be a kernel of truth here; or, more realistically, pure fantasy.

    ‘Let’s’ start from the beginning…

    Without comment on the Ukraine debacle at this time…I’ll limit my ‘questions’ to the Syrian ‘issue’.

    been hearing that “Assad was about to fall” for nearly 5 years now…

    I assume Assad has already fallen. If he has not, why not?

    If, in fantasy land, “Assad was about to fall” to whom and/or what was he “about to fall” to?

    Was Assad on the verge of ‘falling’ to nameless masked mercenary terrorists with a penchant for sodomy no one can actually name–as was the fate of Qaddafi; or was “Assad was about to fall” to someone and/or something else? Do you have an actual name? If so, can you provide it?

    If this even actually happened: you know, Assad ‘falling’ and all…who would benefit and why?

    Just wondering…

    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @Regnum Nostrum
  69. geokat62 says:

    But the mentioned Greek Way does not necessarily involve violence.

    You’re right, not necessarily.

  70. geokat62 says:

    And it comes at a propitious time, because yes, I am still promoting H.R.4108.

    Hi, RobinG. Is the vote count on the Gabbard-Scott Bill still stuck at 3?

    btw – very curious to find out who the third brave soul is. Do you know?

    • Replies: @RobinG
  71. Kiza says:

    I never really discussed much about Andrew Cockburn, believe he is the youngest and the current editor of the CounterPunch. Whilst Alexander never allowed the AGW religion to grace the pages of, Andrew (or whoever is managing it now) is a clear proponent, because around 10% of articles worship AGW. I believe that Andrew is left-wing, like his elder brother, and he would see the US shenanigans in Syria for what they rally are. If interested, you may wish to check out the to see that the left-wing has not swallowed the war-on-ISIS. But WSW are a fairly marginal political group.

    I am writing all this to show you that I am looking at a wide-variety of views, from right-wing to left-wing. But I have to remain independent to be objective. I am sorry if this disappoints. Considering where I reside, I cannot influence things much anyway, except write comments and articles. However, things may change for me in the future.

    Could we please terminate this debate, there are much more interesting things going on in the World. I also feel that we should be friendlier to each other instead of accusing each other of this and that.

    • Replies: @RobinG
  72. Kiza says:

    RT exposed in a leaked video: Watch how evil ‘Kremlin propaganda bullhorn’ REALLY works. Featuring Margarita Simonyan sans one tooth. Such an empty look of desperation on the Peter Lavelle’s face. Watch to the end, there is Putin overseeing the creation of the RT propaganda.

    • Replies: @Avery
  73. RobinG says:

    ” I also feel that we should be friendlier to each other instead of accusing each other of this and that.”

    Yeah! Finally, whew. Does that also go for the Saker? 😉

    • Replies: @Kiza
  74. Rurik says:

    Why begrudge them that tiny refuge?

    are you angling for your thousand years of dispensationalist .. bliss, Bliss?

    do you suppose the you can force the Christ, the ‘lamb of peace’ to float down and grant you your rapture if only you can commit enough of these?


    since after all, that baby was living on

    a tiny sliver of resource-poor land

    so why not slaughter them all so that the people who consider Jesus fate to be boiling in a vat of excrement for all eternity as punishment for His sins, can steal the land

    and then once they have it all, Bliss can finally get his bliss!

    is that pretty much about it Bliss?

  75. Avery says:

    An oldie but a goodie.
    A classic.

    [WHOA! EMBARRASSING! US State Dept Reps Caught in Obvious Lie]

    WHOA! EMBARRASSING! US State Dept Reps Caught in Obvious Lie

    WHOA! EMBARRASSING! US State Dept Reps Caught in Obvious Lie(redone with hilarious captions, priceless!)RI's crowdfund is live! Check it out!

    Posted by Russia Insider on Tuesday, November 17, 2015

    A good assist from Mathew Lee of AP towards the end.

  76. RobinG says:

    It’s not refuge we begrudge, but Zionist ethnic cleansing, infanticide, false flags and incitement against peaceful nations; and perverting US govt. in the interest of same.

    “The debate must begin to shift now. No more proclaiming ‘two states’ and ‘Jewish state.’ The task now is to make it just.”
    Gideon Levy | Dec. 13, 2015 |


    Israel Is Already a Binational State, and Has Been for a Long Time

    The terror, shock, repulsion and resistance the one-state idea stirs in every Zionist Israeli are understandable emotions. They are the traces left by 120 years of Zionism and 120 years of fighting the Palestinian people, with all the fears, hatred, ideology, propaganda and brainwashing. Moreover, contemporary precedents, from the Balkans to Northern Ireland, do not bode well. The one-state solution is the darkest of demons, which will lead to the mother of all disasters: the return of Palestinian refugees. Intifadas, wars, terror, tyranny, civil war and Armageddon pale before the terror that the idea of a binational democracy strikes in the Israeli heart. Return is the absolute apocalypse.

    That’s how it is when the members of the neighboring nation are regarded as nonhuman. That’s how it is when you live in the shadow of a trauma that someone makes sure to cultivate, magnify and distort its impact. As a result, a binational state is seen as an invitation to suicide. With that kind of start, any change in mind-set is a long way off. This Israel will never freely accept the Palestinians as citizens with equal rights. And we can trust the prime minister to do his part: Last week, in response to U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry’s doomsday-weapon warnings, Benjamin Netanyahu firmly declared, “Israel will not be a binational state.”

    If the premier says Israel won’t be a binational state, then of course it won’t be. There’s just one small detail, from the realm of facts: For more than 48 years now, Israel is already a binational state. There’s no other way to describe it: a state that governs two nations is binational. Nor is there any indication that this situation is about to change. And so, the campaign of fearmongering collapses like a house of cards. It turns out that the disaster is already here and it’s not the end of the world. In Basel, Theodor Herzl founded the Jewish state; 70 years later, in 1967, it came to an end and became a binational state. For most of its history, then, Israel has been a binational state. The terrible demon is the reality.

    And perhaps the devil is not so terrible? In the cruelest, most unjust situation that can be imagined — in which a binational Israel maintains an apartheid regime in the territories and a regime that discriminates against its Arab citizens — the horrific prophecies have not come true. There is no civil war, no Yugoslav-style massacres. Every few years there’s an uprising, every few years there’s a small war. Israel lives by the sword; it’s not the end of the world, certainly not in its own eyes. So how much worse could it be if the binationalism were also to become democratic? And why can’t the state’s Jewish character, whatever that means, be preserved in a binational democracy, alongside the national character of the second nation?

    Proponents of the single-state solution are trying to put forward a crazy proposition: the establishment of a just regime, an egalitarian democracy for everyone, not only the Jews. That’s the entire story, the whole catastrophe. The background to this is another development that is increasingly gaining recognition in Israel and beyond: the futility of the alternative. True, there are still people who amuse themselves with the two-state idea, whether out of inertia or a desire to be misleading so as to preserve the status quo. And there are people who think it’s possible to establish a Palestinian state and to let justice reign beyond the 1967 borders, without evacuating all of the settlements and without resolving the refugee problem. That is insane. There has never been an Israeli government that believed in that solution: The proof is that no one ever seriously stopped building the settlements, whose entire purpose is to preclude such an option.

    The road is long and hard, but the debate must begin to shift now, at least for the few who want to live in a more just state. They must stop proclaiming “two states” and “Jewish state,” and begin talking reality. And the reality is that the binational state has been here for a long time. The task now is to make it just. That is much less frightening and dangerous than any other scenario.##

    • Replies: @annamaria
  77. RobinG says:

    Right. There has been no vote on H.R.4108.

    The sponsor is the person who introduces the bill (usually written by their staff). In this case, Tulsi Gabbard. Co-sponsors are other MOCs (Members of Congress) who co-sign, i.e. endorse the bill BEFORE there is any vote.

    Okay. The 2nd co-sponsor is Thomas Massie, Republican from Kentucky.

    Thank you for asking! 🙂

    • Replies: @geokat62
  78. geokat62 says:

    Thanks for clarifying, Robin… appreciate the link.

  79. utu says:

    Putin instructed the Russian Armed Forces in Syria to coordinate with command posts in Israel and the US-led coalition.

    How should we understand this? Is it Putin making an overture to the US? Is Putin admitting that he is outgunned (*) and outplayed that he cannot implement and enforce a unilateral no-fly zone? That he cannot protect Hezbollah from Israel’s air force or SAA from bombing by yet undisclosed air crafts? Is Putin really asking to be co-opted by the US coalition? Is Russia now officially going to OK bombing of Hezbollah by Israel? Does this explain why Iran is getting cold feet as reported by Bloomberg and Israeli press (if they can be believed)? Weren’t the Iran ground troops the essential part of the Putin-Assad plan to reconquer Syria? Anyway, I would not feel too safe if I were Assad.

    So what actually was Putin’s plan? To betray Assad? To raise the price of Assad’s head so it can be traded for, say Ukraine? Certainly Putin or nobody in Kremlin could believe for a moment that Russia could overwhelm the US coalition.

    (*) How many plane Russia has in Syria? 60-100? Ho many fighter planes has Israel? 340 F-16 and 80 F-15? And Turkey? 240 F-16? And how many S-300 and S-400 missiles are there in Syria? Bringing up antiquated Tornados by Saker was very disingenuous in this context.

    • Agree: Kiza
    • Replies: @geokat62
  80. annamaria says:

    “…a state that governs two nations is binational.”
    The most horrific outcome for the ethnocentric crazies would be “the establishment of a just regime, an egalitarian democracy for everyone, not only the Jews.” This idea is intolerable for the believers in the mythical “promised land.” But there is no other solution, otherwise there will be a continuous moral decay of an apartheid state.

    • Replies: @Kiza
  81. geokat62 says:

    So what actually was Putin’s plan? To betray Assad? To raise the price of Assad’s head so it can be traded for, say Ukraine?

    I’ll let Avery answer that question.

    • Replies: @Avery
  82. Avery says:

    Thanks for the confidence in my abilities as an armchair general, [geokat62].
    I think your confidence is misplaced, but I’ll take my 15-minutes of fame anyway.

    After I read your post, I immediately placed a call (encrypted cell phone given to me by __redacted___) to Влади́мир Влади́мирович, and asked him that same question in fluent Russian. President Putin said he would gladly tell me what his plans are re Syria and Assad, but then I’d be dead as soon as the call ended. He did not say how I would be dead, but naturally I believed him. Since Christmas is just around the corner, and I have all those gifts I have bought to distribute to kin and friends, I said, “Thanks, Mr President, but no thanks”, wished him success in Syria, and waited for him to hang up (…you don’t hang up on President Putin).

    This is my take.
    There is no trade between Ukraine and Syria.
    Ukraine, Syria, Iran are an existential necessity for Russia against The Empire. (long term).
    Giving up Syria would mean giving up Iran next, and Novorossiya after that.
    My amateur guess is that Putin and Russian General staff know that The Empire is desperate now that Putin rained (bombs) on their parade.

    In this particular case, Putin knows that The Empire is not done trying to provoke Russia with the Su-24 shootdown. They are going to do an Su-24 again.
    So to prepare for the next provocation, this time either by Israel, or US, or Brits, he is cutting off their excuse: “……we did not know there was a Russian jet there…..”.
    Putin has to keep his focus on the objective: that being to close the ISIS infiltration channels around Syrian border, starve them of war materiel, and give SAA time to re-build its forces.
    The Empire will try its best to suck Russia into side-shows, and Russia will do its best not to get distracted.

    And don’t believe everything you read in Sputnik, or RT, or Pravda, or Komsomol.
    Russians know how to play the disinformation game too.
    Everybody is saying things in public that have nothing to do with what both sides are actually planning or doing.

    At least that’s the way I see it.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @geokat62
  83. Svigor says:

    Even if Congress had authorized it, it still would’ve been illegal under international law to invade Syria, as attacking Syria requires a UNSC resolution authorizing it, just as one was required for invading Iraq.

    If somehow your country and the USA switched places in terms of military and economic power, your country would not limit itself to what the UN says is legal, except as doing so coincided with its own interests.

    Same goes for any country run by a gov’t with even a smidgen of good sense.

    “International law” is just rhetoric for the weak to hide behind. Obviously that’s a good move, too.

    you have to remember that the reason the Anglo-Zionist empire wants Syria so bad is for its strategic location with pipelines.

    I’m sure Russia wants Syria so they can open an ice cream shop.

    The only reason the US is meddling is , from a rational perspective, Israel.

    Well, that, and the unholy alliance the Israel lobby has made with the American arms industry.

    Yes, the majority of the Syrian people who are being attacked by Russia, Iran and Hezbollah for the sin of wanting to chose who rules Syria.

    Iran and Russia should no more sit by and watch as US, Turkey, and Israel topple Assad than the US would sit by and watch Russia topple Panama.

    The opponents of Assad will never give up because he has caused the death and displacement of millions of Syrians in a futile attempt to hang onto total power against the wishes of the vast majority of the population.

    You have no real evidence for this. The fact that Assad has held on so long proves his worthiness in the eyes of the world; everyone knows this is the real litmus test in that part of the world. That, and the fact that Assad wasn’t all that bad – for that part of the world – in the first place.

    That anyone would even consider that US and Russia have the same interest regarding Islamic extremists, just proves that most Westerners live in the cuckoo propaganda land. You are taking such fools too seriously.

    Lol. Russians apparently have less interest in bombing Islamic State than NATO does. Syrian strategy is to leave IS for last, while concentrating on uniting all of Syria under Assad. Russian strategy is to go along with this.

    you seem rly upset that 1.6 billion muslims constantly lose to a couple million jews.

    This is how Neokhans work it. If 1.6 billion Muslims attack the Jews, they call them evil Nazis. If 1.6 billion Muslims leave the Jews alone, they call them pussies. The real issue is the Neokhan morality, or lack thereof. They probably spend most of their time aching to express the true depths of their racism and superiority-inferiority complex.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  84. utu says:

    Obama will be meeting top military at Pentagon this week. Will they consider overtures Putin is making to be co-opted to coalition?

    Wall Street Journals doubts it or should we say advises otherwise:

    “Military officials also raise the issue of how to integrate Russia more closely into the coalition without letting them into the Combined Air Operations Center, where highly classified information on American tactics and techniques is shared.

    Russia could be given a sector of Syria as its own battle space, but U.S. officials are worried that could effectively make current divisions in Syria permanent, a misguided echo of the division of Germany in the Cold War.”

    The WSJ needs to be taken with a grain of salt. After all its main job is propaganda. See for example this: among Russian “There is no regard for collateral damage.” while ‘Western armies focused on winning “hearts and minds.”’

    • Replies: @5371
  85. Avery says:

    Here is a good one.

    The main sponsor of Islamic (Wahhabist) terrorism in the world is setting up a military block to allegedly “fight” terrorism.
    [‘Islamic coalition against terrorism’: Saudi Arabia presents 34-state military block]

    Yes, of course, why not.
    Next we’ll learn that Saudi Arabia is officially opening the first Christian Church in Riyadh, only 1 mile from Mecca.

    Saudis must be really worried that their Sunni terrorists are being routed, and a Shia arc is slowly forming, so they are setting up a “Sunni Terrorist Support Block”.

    Things are getting curiouser and curiouser every week.

  86. utu says:

    So to prepare for the next provocation, this time either by Israel, or US, or Brits

    What about providing FIM-92 Stingers to some of the rebels in Latakia province?

    • Replies: @Kiza
  87. geokat62 says:

    “International law” is just rhetoric for the weak to hide behind.

    Couldn’t disagree more. If the last few decades has taught us anything, it is that “international law” is just rhetoric for the strong to hide behind.

    For example, what good did international law do for Saddam, Qaddafi, Mossadeq? What good has it done for Assad?

    While it has been imposed against such weak leaders as Milosevic and various African rulers, it has never been imposed against the strong, such as the Anglozionists.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
    , @Kiza
  88. @geokat62

    Chas Freeman,
    May 2011


    Humanitarian law and the law of war are arguably the supreme moral artifacts of Atlantic civilization. . . .The resulting legal principles were intended to deter the kinds of injuries and injustices that European Jews and other minorities had long suffered and to protect occupied populations from persecution by their occupiers. Both objectives are very relevant to contemporary Palestine.

    It is, however, hard to find any principle of due process, the several Geneva Conventions, or the Nuremberg trials that has not been systematically violated in the Holy Land. Examples of criminal conduct include mass murder, extra-judicial killing, torture, detention without charge, the denial of medical care, the annexation and colonization of occupied territory, the illegal expropriation of land, ethnic cleansing and the collective punishment of civilians, including the demolition of their homes, the systematic reduction of their infrastructure and the de-development and impoverishment of entire regions. These crimes have been linked to a concerted effort to rewrite international law to permit actions that it traditionally prohibited, in effect enshrining the principle that might makes right.

    As the former head of the Israeli Defense Forces’ (IDF) Legal Department has argued:

    “If you do something for long enough the world will accept it. The whole of international law is now based on the notion that an act that is forbidden today becomes permissible if executed by enough countries . . . . International law progresses through violations.”

    A colleague of his has extended this notion by pointing out that:

    “The more often Western states apply principles that originated in Israel to their own non-traditional conflicts in places like Afghanistan and Iraq, then the greater the chance these principles have of becoming a valuable part of international law.”

    These references to Iraq and Afghanistan underscore the extent to which the United States, once the principal champion of a rule-bound international order, has followed Israel in replacing legal principles with expediency as the central regulator of its interaction with foreign peoples.

    The expediently amoral doctrine of preemptive war is such an Israeli transplant in the American neo-conservative psyche. Neither it nor other deliberate assaults on the rule of law have been met with concerted resistance from Palestinians, Arabs, or anyone else, including the American Bar Association.
    The steady displacement of traditional American values – indeed, the core doctrines of western civilization – with ideas designed to free the state of inconvenient moral constraints has debased the honor and prestige of our country as well as Israel.

  89. Kiza says:

    Avery, excuse me for jumping in.

    Utu, I would not be surprised if Stingers are already in the “moderate” hands, because Saudis had many thousands. Have you noticed that the Su-24 which was shot-down was flying at 6,000 m, why do you think this was? No modern bombers bomb from less than 6,000 m (18,000 feet), which is roughly the maximum altitude a MANPAD can reach. Well, sure, maybe the Russians will make another mistake and drop below this altitude, but I would guess this highly unlikely.

    The point is that the “moderate” terrorists belonging to the Coalition of the Sponsors of Terrorism have already all manner of the most modern US weaponry. To explain this madness, the Western MSM are braying constantly about the Iraqi military handing over their weapons to ISIS. How convenient an explanation, the plausible deniability again, covering what Don Trump calls, the “dopey, daddy’s boy”, Prince bin Talal has been doing in Syria.

    Regarding the new Saudi Arabian “Islamic coalition against terrorism”, I somehow expect it to discover that the first terrorist they have to fight are Al Assad and the Syrian Arab Army. Perhaps SA learned something about manufacturing legitimacy from the US: make big promises and pay a few bucks to the monkeys and create a coalition for what you want to do.

    Finally, Russia appears to be complaining about the US disregarding the contracts it signed with Russia. Well, as someone who has been doing business in the West I could have told the Russians that ink has not dried on their signatures before the US started planning to bust. In the West, the contract often serves to lull the opponent into a false sense of security. The US could not care less if the Russians are unhappy for being tricked, but they do care that they can present a good face domestically – “Russians, you got f’ed, tough luck, wipe your tears off and lick your wounds up; start being good, obliging boys and girls; we did not do anything wrong, maybe there was a slight miscommunication between us and our allies, but nothing to worry about, we will improve our communications. After all, you should not have breached the Turkish airspace, our contract did not give you a blank check to violate Turkey at will.”

    In reality, the Russian jet probably did not breach the Turkish airspace this time. This was a classical ambush organized by the CIA. It started with blackmailing/paying-off some Turkish airforce general. Then, two Turkish jets were sent loitering below the altitude of the horizon of the Russian radar at Hmeimim. When the US radar at Incirlik spotted two Russian bombers near the border, as expected, the Turkish jets jumped up, shot at one of the jets and then quickly dropped down below the radar horizon again. A classical ambush, helped by the fact that the Russians shared information about their bombing sorties with the US. The rest was just the usual Western media bull.

    In summary, with virtually zero risk to themselves, the Turks achieved a significant military success. The Russians are left to keep believing in contracts with the West. Just like Yanukovych believed in the contract he signed with the opposition under the guarantees of the EU, whilst the US did the coup the next morning. Notice the similarity – the signatory never does the dirty job, to keep the arms-length distance. Just always a miss-communication between allies.

    Thus, a (rhetorical) questions for Saker: When do you think the Russians will stop believing in the contracts with the West? Do you think that the Russians capable of learning? Are the Russians lulling themselves into a false sense of security when they call the West – “our partners”, no matter how funny they may find such a name for their enemy?

    Avery, my bet is on a maritime trick (false-flag) next time: a ship or a sub. The Russians navy has already repelled two approaches by the Turkish “civilian ships”. Next stop, blockade of the Bosphorus, or a USS Cole-stylee attack on a Russian ship “by ISIS”.

    • Replies: @Avery
    , @utu
    , @utu
  90. Kiza says:

    Geo, Milosevic was powerless, not weak. I am sure you appreciate the difference.

    I believe that what Svigor really wanted to say was that the powerless hope to hide behind the international law just like poor, trembling mice. Unfortunately, the international law has a completely opposite purpose – it is always interpreted-away by the Western Gov lawyers to justify doing what the West/Zionists wants (interpreted-away UN resolution or no UN resolution at all, who cares), whilst in its most extreme form it is simultaneously applied as a final punishment for the Western victims. As a real law, the international law is not worth the paper it is written on, the real law of this planet is the law of the jungle. When one even talks about the International Law, one has fallen for the Western rhetorical/legal aerobatics.

    • Replies: @geokat62
    , @RobinG
  91. Avery says:

    {Avery, excuse me for jumping in.}


    No need to: I am a guest here, just like everybody else.
    It’s an open forum, courtesy of
    Nobody has a private thread or private discussion here @UNZ.
    Anybody can jump in at any time, subject to the approval of UNZ moderators.

    Thanks for the consideration just the same.


    • Replies: @alexander
  92. geokat62 says:

    Geo, Milosevic was powerless, not weak.

    Point well taken.

    I believe that what Svigor really wanted to say…

    Hey, Svigor, is that what you really wanted to say?

  93. Kiza says:

    I did not like this article very much, sorry. Why are we clouding all these issues by rhetoric? Binational single state solution or Two state solution, there is no model which can accommodate the “reality on the ground”. And the reality on the ground is that the Jews have the money and the guns, whilst the Palestinians already have and will have even more millions of people. One can play with organisational models to eternity, none will fit the purpose. The default solution will always be “mowing of the grass”, as an IDF general described it, or “expulsion” if they are lucky. Until/if some Muslim group finally acquires the nuclear weapons and puts and end to all these “solutions”. No Israel and no Palestinians any more – “no problemo” any more, if only it could be.

    It was a huge mistake in the first place to create a Jewish state smack in the middle of the Muslim lands, even if they were ancient Jewish lands and even if the Palestinians are not all Muslim. But it was a typical Western play with borders of other peoples’ lands. Divide et impera. Nothing new under the sun. Putting gasoline and matches next to each other. But playing this particular play, at the time when humanity acquired nuclear weapons capability was bound to end up badly. The fact that the nuclear weapons have not been used for 70 years lulls us in a totally false sense of reason-prevailing. Reason is not the natural state of humanity, quite on the contrary. Particularly the Westerners pride themselves on the level of their “civilization”, but they are hardly anything more than selfish and petty hairless apes, and this may be an insult to the apes.

    What a deadly combination:
    1) under-developed Western mind full of dumb hubris, playing with gasoline and matches,
    2) Jewish selfishness and inclination to acquisition, and
    3) Muslim multiplication as if this planet was the size of Jupiter.

    I know that everything I stated here is totally obvious, almost worn out, but I just had to type it.

  94. geokat62 says:

    I think your confidence is misplaced,

    You proved me wrong, again.

  95. RobinG says:

    “Milosevic was powerless, not weak. I am sure you appreciate the difference.”

    I don’t. (In relation to US/NATO he was both, and in the context I don’t get the difference.) Care to explain?

    • Replies: @Kiza
  96. utu says:

    When do you think the Russians will stop believing in the contracts with the West? Do you think that the Russians capable of learning? Are the Russians lulling themselves into a false sense of security when they call the West – “our partners”, no matter how funny they may find such a name for their enemy?

    I do not think that Russia has other options. If they had conventional weapons advantage they would not have to deal with the West. They would do what they wanted w/o asking. But they were cognizant of the power balance from the very beginning, so what Russia wanted really to accomplish? Did they expect that everybody will pretend to believe that they are all powerful? And will not challenge Russian’s power in Syria? They couldn’t be that naive or could they? It kind of looks like Russia is at a mercy of Israel now who so far was giving her legitimacy in Syria but Israel can withdraw it at a whim. Is this really an Israeli game to put pressure on the US by playing the Russian card? Or is it a plot to get rid of Putin? Will Putin turn to Netanyahu or Obama? However I look at it, it does not look good for Russia and Putin. I’m afraid that Putin might be fighting for his life.

    • Replies: @Kiza
    , @Bliss
  97. Svigor says:

    Couldn’t disagree more. If the last few decades has taught us anything, it is that “international law” is just rhetoric for the strong to hide behind.

    That’s true, too. Except in the local (i.e., context.

  98. utu says:

    No modern bombers bomb from less than 6,000 m (18,000 feet), which is roughly the maximum altitude a MANPAD can reach.

    Su-24 is not a modern bomber. The WSJ claims they can’t use smart bombs (true?). Su-34 are the only modern bombers Russia has but originally there were only four of them in Syria and only recently their number was increased.

    Some Stingers supposedly can be effective to up to 8000 m.

    Kiza, what is you take on Metrojet on Sinai? Why Russia for so long was delaying admitting it was brought by a bomb until the Paris event? Was it cunctatory on Russia’s part or the old Soviet habit? Or why the West was pushing the bomb theory so strongly from the very beginning? Just today Egypt issued a report that they have no proof there was a possibility of planting a bomb at their airport.

    • Replies: @Kiza
  99. Kiza says:

    RobinG, please think of me as one of those two old and grumpy geezers from the Muppet Show gallery, always having to say something bad about everybody and everything on the show (hopefully, at least sometimes, a little funny). Therefore, do not expect me to ever go soft on Saker, he is the article writer and the article is the show.

  100. alexander says:

    Speaking of “jumping in”.

    Has anyone had the opportunity to” jump into” the latest screed by David Remnick for the New Yorker ? It is dedicated to our indefatigable Secretary of State and his pusillanimous pursuit of “peace”in the middle east ?

    If you haven’t, I highly recommend it.

    It’s a “real” cherry .

    It epitomizes to a tee…….. to a” tee” …. the tragic collapse of the contemporary New York liberal intellectual as an authentic arbiter for “whats real ” .

    It is so sad to witness such a thing,

    Yet there it is for all to see.

    Mr Remnick is smart, he writes well , yet it seems he is trapped in ” the bubble “that he himself cannot even notice, let alone make an accounting of.

    Historically, the notion of the” great liberal mind” fighting like a banshee toward basic human justice, clawing furiously and relentlessly at the edges of the “untrue” is shockingly “void” in his expose’.

    Reading it is like bearing witness to the complete capitulation of a fine mind to the trappings of the state, the state of war we are trapped in…and its permanence.

    Almost as if every sentence uttered, every narrative described, every event recounted meets the silent and sanctimonious nod of approval from the….

    “Five dancing Israelis”

    It is a “must” read.

  101. Kiza says:

    Well, thanks for asking. I personally do think that it was a bomb planted by the staff of the airport and I do not think that Russia was delaying the report for too long. It was the West which was jumping the gun, as usual. The West knows everything and always before a proper investigation is completed (no propaganda value in investigations). A proper investigation does take two months. Maybe there was a small reluctance by the leadership, because the Russian civilians are getting killed en masse. I also think that although Qatar may have paid for this classical act of terrorism, the whole Coalition of the Sponsors of Terrorism (COSOT) was involved. Why would West not push the story of the bomb from the beginning? It serves the Western propaganda purpose perfectly, regardless of how much the West was directly involved in it. The Russians are really being hit extremely hard by the Coalition. But even then, this is just a foreplay. We can be the best armchair generals or not, but I still wonder if Russia should have tried to save Syria. As I wrote before, the West would have hit Russia anyway, if not in Syria then somewhere else. It is nothing personal (although there is a bit of envy of Russian hydrocarbons and a religious hate), the West just does not like competition and has an established habit of enjoying other peoples’ property. But maybe Russia would have had a little more time. I have stated many times before, that I believe that the future of Russia truly rests on the legendary resilience of the Russians (who won WW2?) or the absence of the same in the contemporary Russian generations. This is what it will be all about, much more than Putin as a unique leader. He is not bad at all, but one man maketh not victory. The second most important factor would be if the Chinese will find a character feature that they are not known to possess – sacrifice for friends, to offer all kinds of support to Russia. Or if they will join the vultures to buy time and/or get a piece of the Western action (a bone or two), although they will be the next victim. Thus, Putin is the third most important deciding factor in this war.

    As to Egypt’s story, that is desperation talking: a Western ally typically wonders if it is better to remain an ally or to become an enemy, there is not much difference in treatment. If the Egyptian economy tanks due to vanishing tourists, which is likely, then the generals may not be able to retain control. Thus, denial.

  102. Kiza says:

    I do not know all the details of this story, but the following is my understanding.

    Milosevic was somewhere between a communist apparatchik of the socialist Yugoslavia and a full-time banker, working in a US branch of some Yugoslav bank (a small time bankster). His main fault was not understanding what was going on in the World, combined with naivety/thickness. Essentially, he wanted to run an independent state at the time when the only opponent of the Western empire, USSR, was crumbling down and the new opponent, China, has not risen up enough yet. Possibly, a uniquely blatant example of terrible timing in the history of the whole humankind.

    He invited the Chinese to help and got only some financial assistance, like one straw thrown to a drowning man. The Chinese offered zero military assistance to Milosevic. This is because the Chinese reach was not sufficient at the time to make one iota of military difference in Europe. The Chinese picked up some intelligence on NATO and got a bloody nose with the embassy bombing (deliberate and clear message to go home). In the long term, the Chinese wanted to use Yugoslavia/Serbia as a lily pad for trade into Europe, not for any military expansion. But this was the last thing the US would have allowed the Chinese to do, just when the US kicked the Soviet ass cleanly out of Eastern Europe: it is not a vacuum dummy, we worked hard to clean up our patch.

    In such environment, Milosevic could do nothing useful. He was a useless man in a desperate position. I am not sure if anyone could have done any better, but he certainly did not play right. As a traditional Russian ally, Serbia was allowed zero slack, whilst Milosevic kept trying to play poker with the West with a totally losing hand (with drunken Yeltsin and silly Chinese traders on his side). If he were alive today, he would probably say, in hindsight, that he should have given the whole shop, the whole kit and kaboodle, to the West straight away. Instead, he kept giving in one piece at a time – he actually thought he was smart enough to play the game, but he was just a little Serbian ant frustrating the hubristic West, which just won the Cold War. He gave in step-by-step, firstly in Croatia, then in Bosnia and finally in Kosovo. Absolutely everything and right-away he should have given away. Everything is how things ended up anyway. And the cocky ant got squashed.

    Therefore, Milosevic was not a weak man, maybe Gorbachev wrote his fate, but even this could be an exaggeration. A wrong man (of proud intentions), at a wrong place, at a wrong time would probably be much more appropriate. Therefore, powerless rather than weak.

    How would you have handled his situation, I would love to read? Any strategic insight?

  103. 5371 says:

    [the Combined Air Operations Center, where highly classified information on American tactics and techniques is shared]

    Like how to fly over things thousands of times without ever attacking them? That kind of highly classified tactic and technique?

  104. Kiza says:

    I’m afraid that Putin might be fighting for his life

    Maybe a bit too dramatic, but things could possibly develop that way.

    I do agree that Israel is the deciding factor in this situation (in which it isn’t?). The unknown unknown is what compromise the Israelis may be willing to accept ultimately. I assume that Putin’s calculus was to throw in the Russian presence into Syria and then demand a compromise of Usrael. So far, a spectacular miss, if he expected any compromise to be offered. Neither sweet talking Nutty Yahoo (which Saker reflects in his articles), nor bringing in the latest Russian military gear impressed the Nutty and his uber-zio-gang, the Likudniks. The Nutty, instead, sicked his canines of war onto Russia, probably as a foretaste of what may be coming the Russia’s way: a civilian jet bombed and a bomber jet shot down, with regular bombing of the Russian allies in Syria. Assad will not suffer the Gaddafi’s fate, but Israel has been declining absolutely any sign of compromise so far. As far as Israel is concerned: Russia can get either absolute nothing, or an increasing count of the dead with the same absolute nothing.

    Further, if Putin withdraws from Syria and Assad falls, then he would be labeled by the Western NGOs in Russia as a looser and a government change/color revolution would be initiated.

    But this game is not over yet, Putin has been fighting the domestic Zios since his rise to prominence. It ain’t over till the fat lady sings. Let us give him some time to come up with something. Maybe he manages to achieve some, at least temporary, win-win with Israel through his Russian Jew connections to Israel? Most (poor) Russian Jews actually like Putin, as opposed to the Jewish oligarchy and the Zionists outside of Russia. These Russian Jews could find a solution for Putin, if they make an effort (will they, can they?). Ultimately, if Putin waits out in Syria and Hitlary wins, then his ass is probably cooked. Or the whole World may be cooked.

    In short, it is still too foggy to call the outcome of the Russian presence in Syria.

  105. @Ben_C

    It is a rather incoherent rant. I am not sure what your point is.

    • Replies: @Ben_C
  106. annamaria says:

    Meet a perfect presstitute at a perfect presstitute establishment:
    Liz Sly, Washington Post Bureau chief in Beirut

    Ms. Sly goes into fantastic contortions to convince the readers that the ongoing humanitarian crisis in Syria is a result of recent Russian airstrikes. Neither the law of the cause and effect nor chronology of events in the Middle East (and Europe, flooded with the influx of terrified ME refugees) affects Ms. Sly thinking. But most amazing is her total amnesia about the number of victims generated by the US aggression in the Middle East and about the devastation of the Middle Eastern infrastructure courtesy the US et al. Ms. Sly, this voluble weasel needs to be reminded that it was the US Secretary of State that said it loud and clear ” WE came, we saw, he died.”
    The “we” means the United States of America; “he” means Gaddafi, the president of the formerly prosperous Libya that was devastated by the US et al. The same, “we came, we saw, he died,” was applied previously to Iraq with the same devastating results. The US have scored two “we came, we saw, he died” (Iraq and Libya) and hoped to do the same trick in Syria. The Russian federation (invited by the legitimate Syrian government, unlike the intruders US/UK, Turkey, and Gulf monarchies – what a company!) presents an obstacle to finishing the formally prosperous state of Syria. But the facts on the ground are of no concern for Ms. Sly. Where do they make this kind of petty and parasitic minds?

  107. annamaria says:

    zooming in at the roots of the ongoing war and horrors of humanitarian crisis in Syria
    “The international crisis in Syria traces back in part to the decision of President Barack Obama’s first ambassador to Syria, Robert Ford, to reject peaceful rapprochement with the Damascus regime in favor of “radically redesign[ing] his mission” to promote anti-government protests that triggered the civil war in 2011.”

  108. utu says:

    Interesting article on Russian artillery in Syria

    The say that Russians want to deemphasize dependence on Iranian troops:

    “In Syria, the increased use of artillery could also indicate a shift away from military operations organized around insurgent forces recruited by Iran to a different military model that relies on Russian organization.”

    ‘”Moscow is convinced of the need to strengthen conventional Syrian military forces and institutions and decrease the role of militias and the regime’s dependence on Iran,” journalist Ibahim Hamidi wrote in Al Hayat, one of the mostly widely read Arab newspapers in the region.’

    6 days ago Bloomberg ( and Israeli papers were alleging that Iranians are winding down their operations.

    Is the de-Iranization of the conflict what Putin is offering to Israel? Certainly it is to the contrary of the official pro-Russian media where the alliance between Russia, Syria, Hezbollah and Iran was often emphasized and where more Iranian troops were expected to make the final push for the Reconquista of Syria under Russian air support. Obviously Bloomberg, Israeli press and The Week must be taken with the grain of salt; nevertheless, we haven’t heard anything from pro-Russian or Iranian sources on this issue.

    • Replies: @Kiza
  109. Kiza says:

    Interesting development if true. Has SAA recovered so much, that under Russian leadership, it would be able to replace all other friendly forces? Is something similar to Eastern Ukraine developing in Syria? I am sure that Iran and Hezbollah would not mind much, whilst it would be something that Israel may appreciate enough to start considering a wider compromise with Russia. I have written before that Putin may have thrown the Russian forces into Syria to get Israel to consider a compromise which would retain Syria in almost its pre-war borders but probably not under Assad.

    Israel completely ignored all signals from Russia so far that a compromise is needed. Will this offer work?

  110. Ben_C says:
    @Regnum Nostrum

    I’m not sure what was unclear.

    Aside from the several ‘questions’ you didn’t answer, the overall gist of my post was that Russian policy is not what is failing; quite the contrary.

    Did/do you have a point?

    Just wondering…

  111. Bliss says:

    However I look at it, it does not look good for Russia and Putin. I’m afraid that Putin might be fighting for his life.

    Breaking News:

    US Not Seeking ‘Regime Change’ in Syria, John Kerry Says After Meeting With Russian President

    Following lengthy talks with Russian President Vladimir Putin in Moscow today, U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry has said the United States is not seeking regime change in Syria and that the U.S. and Russia see the conflict “fundamentally very similarly.”

    The statement appeared to be the most explicit sign yet that the U.S. is softening its policy towards Assad and marked a significant rhetorical shift for the U.S. towards Russia’s policy in Syria, which previously American officials have said was almost fundamentally at odds with their own.

    Putin wins the stare down with Obama.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  112. geokat62 says:

    Putin wins the stare down with Obama.

    Do you really believe that the neocons/Israel firsters have given up on their dreams of regime change in Syria? My advice is to take a “wait and see” approach. There are more chapters to come in this story.

    • Agree: Kiza
    • Replies: @Avery
    , @Bliss
    , @RobinG
  113. Avery says:

    Agree: they have not given up.
    Not by a long shot.

    They won’t give up, until terrorists are cleaned out of Syria, and they have no more throat-cutting cannibals left inside Syria to carry out their orders. That will take some time, given that SAA (particularly Alawites) have lost a lot of men past 4 years of desperate fighting.
    And even then, the Neocons will never stop meddling: it is in their nature.
    Scorpions can’t help themselves: they have to sting.

    Right now The Empire is not doing too well in Syria
    Just yesterday SAA liberated another 9 settlements around Aleppo.
    So Kerry was told to play nice while Empire figures out what to do.

    Putin knows Kerry is lying when he says “not seeking regime change”.
    And Kerry knows Putin knows Kerry is lying.
    It’s all smiles, sugar and honey for public consumption.
    Particularly the public in US: they have to be kept sedated with BS, so that they do not get too excited and vote somebody wrong for POTUS, like Trump.
    The Empire needs another solid warmonger in office, like Hillary Rodham.

    Meanwhile, behind the scenes everyone is sharpening their knives for the next round.
    And hopefully, while The Empire is momentarily disoriented, SAA, IRGC, Hezbollah, and Russians can use the opportunity to cause maximum death and destruction to the cannibals.
    Even terrorists don’t have unlimited numbers: the more of them are wiped out now, the easier it will be for SAA in the next round.

    • Replies: @Seamus Padraig
  114. @Avery

    Putin knows Kerry is lying when he says “not seeking regime change”. And Kerry knows Putin knows Kerry is lying. It’s all smiles, sugar and honey for public consumption … Meanwhile, behind the scenes everyone is sharpening their knives for the next round.

    Yup. Just like Kerry or Biden going to Kiev and telling Porky to start abiding by Minsk II. It’s all meant to reassure our Euro-muppets that we’re not really trying to prolong the stand-off with Russia. But Putin knows better. He knows this is a long-term struggle.

    As far as Syria is concerned, the most Obama and Kerry could do would be to delay any major escalation until Obama leaves office. That’s the most they can accomplish. But if Killary wins–watch out!

    • Replies: @geokat62
  115. Bliss says:

    There are more chapters to come in this story.

    Of course there are. But in this chapter of the story Putin looks the winner.

    Perhaps this played a role in changing the minds of Obama and his advisers:

    President Vladimir Putin ordered defense chiefs to strengthen Russia’s strategic nuclear forces amid rising tensions with the U.S. over the global balance of power.

    Russia’s military will have five new nuclear regiments equipped with modern missile complexes next year, Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu told the same meeting. More than 95 percent of the country’s nuclear forces are at a permanent state of readiness, he said.

    Amid a conflict with NATO member Turkey over the shooting down of a Russian warplane near the Syrian border last month, Putin ordered defense officials to “react harshly” to threats to Russia’s forces operating in Syria. Any such threats should face “immediate extermination,” he said.

    • Replies: @Bliss
  116. geokat62 says:
    @Seamus Padraig

    But if Killary wins–watch out!

    I can almost see the people on this list struggling to keep from drooling:


    P.S. Leading members of the George W Bush administration along with Blair and the leading neocons/Israel firsters must be brought to justice for the crime of launching an aggressive war against Iraq. The names of the leading neocon/Israel firsters are:

    Paul Wolfowitz
    Richard Perle
    Abram Shulsky
    Douglas Feith
    Lewis Scooter Libby
    Judith Miller
    Michael Ledeen
    The Kagan clan, incl. Victoria Nudelman
    The Kristol clan
    The Podhoretz clan
    David and Meyrav Wurmser
    Paul Bremer
    Joe Lieberman
    Chuck Schumer
    Alan Dershowitz
    John Hagee
    Pat Robertson
    Eternal World Television Network (EWTN)
    Elliot Abrams
    William Luti
    Eliot A. Cohen
    Eliot Engel
    Charles Krauthammer
    David Frum
    David Horowitz
    Ken Pollack
    Walter Slocombe
    John Bolton
    Jennifer Rubin
    Joshua Muravchik
    Michael Rubin
    Frank Gaffney
    Ed Royce
    Daniel Pipes
    Marc Grossman
    James Woolsey
    Michael Chertoff
    Sheldon Adelson
    Rudy Giuliani
    Newt Gingrich

    The names of the torture facilitators are:

    Bruce Jessen
    James Mitchell
    Alberto Gonzales
    Timothy Flanigan
    John Yoo
    John Rizzo
    Jay Bybee
    Ricardo Sanchez
    Robert Delahunty

    • Agree: Seamus Padraig
  117. Bliss says:

    And this:

    Russian President Vladimir Putin said Wednesday the Russian missiles used to combat terrorists in Syria could be fitted with nuclear warheads, the Russian government-funded news agency RT reports.

  118. RobinG says:

    Hi Geo.

    There’s ‘wait and see’. and there’s ‘strike while the iron is hot’. You know, that’s what happened in 2013, when Kerry slipped up and said ‘if Assad got rid of his chemical weapons’ and Lavrov pounced on it and arranged the deal.

    So now Kerry says ‘publically’ (wink) that regime change is not a prerequisite. Now is the time to move in and make it so.

    I’m just back from meeting Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard. She spoke to a group of activists about her bill,
    H.R. 4108 – “To prohibit the use of funds for the provision of assistance to Syrian opposition groups and individuals.”

    She said we must proceed with urgency. The first step is to persuade other Members of Congress to co-sponsor this bill. They go home for the holidays – good chance to tell them in their home districts to take this step for Peace.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  119. geokat62 says:

    … good chance to tell them in their home districts to take this step for Peace.

    Hi, Robin.

    You must have missed the inside joke I made earlier:

    Haxo Angmark – Let’s hope, at least, that the Russians missiles hit DC when Congress is in full session.

    geokat62 – Let’s also hope that Congress gets to vote on H.R. 4108 before the missile hits.

    While I commend you on taking the initiative to meet with Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard, as I’ve indicated before, the structural issues inherent in the electoral system are so serious (e.g., lobbying by the Big Bs: Big Banking, Big Pharma, Big Bazookas, and Big Zion), that the “incrementalist” approach is doomed to fail.

    Why don’t we make a bet? I say that you’ll be lucky to get into the double digits in terms of congress critters signing on as co-sponsors of that bill.

  120. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:

    In my opinion, the end game here is the destruction and looting of the Russian Federation.

    I expect those who are attempting it to keep pushing for the same ends, and I suspect they will use the USN as much as they can.

    • Replies: @Kiza
  121. @The most deplorable one

    America will fight its future wars with women and homosexuals. Russia is still fighting with straight men. If their military technology is at least roughly comparable, I’d give the edge to Russia.

    As for me, I never volunteered for the armed services because I’ve never seen the U.S. military fight for my own country. We’re always fighting somebody else’s war, and usually with baleful consequences.

  122. Kiza says:
    @The most deplorable one

    I think most of the free-thinkers (those not sucking up propaganda) here agree on what the game plan is, as you wrote. As simple as that.

  123. @5371

    Where is Sam Shama (Shamason) when his help is needed most? You remember, he’s the super-intelligent financial expert (loan shark) who informed us stupid Gentiles that he “clocked in” with an IQ of 170 or better.

  124. annamaria says:
    @A Pseudonymic Handle

    And look who has shown real courage (not the puffing 5-deferment and AWOL guys and not the current contenders for the prez nomination):

    “Many Americans may want to put the unpleasant memories of the Iraq War behind them – from “shock and awe” and the illegal invasion, to the leveling of Fallujah and the Abu Ghraib atrocities, to the incompetent U.S. occupation, the Haditha murders and the sectarian slaughters – but a failure to face the reality honestly will only encourage future war crimes of similar or even greater magnitude. Already, Republicans … are speaking as casually about going to war with Iran as George W. Bush and Dick Cheney did about war with Iraq.”

  125. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:
    @A Pseudonymic Handle

    Do you have evidence that the Russians do not allow women in combat positions in their military services?

    It would be interesting if that was their current position given claims by the USSR about women serving in combat during WWII.

    • Replies: @tbraton
  126. Bliss says:

    The good news keeps coming:

    the United States and Russia joined forces at the United Nations on Thursday to fight against the flow of money to ISIS terrorists.

    From Russia with love: Putin, Trump sing each other’s praises

  127. utu says:

    Russia seems to be doing what they said thew would. So Americans complain. Recent Bloomberg article:

    “The U.S. has stopped flying manned air-support missions for rebels in a key part of northern Syria due to Russia’s expansion of air defense systems there, and the Barack Obama administration is scrambling to figure out what to do about it.”

    “The administration could decide to resume flights in support of the rebels fight Islamic State, but that could risk a deadly incident with the Russian military. For now, the U.S. seems to be acquiescing to Russia’s effort to keep American manned planes out of the sky there and “agree to their rules of the game,” the administration official said.”

    “With U.S. planes out of the way, Russia has stepped up its own airstrikes along the Turkey-Syria border, and the Obama administration has accused it of targeting the rebel groups the U.S. was supporting, not the Islamic State. The Russian strikes are also targeting commercial vehicles passing from Turkey into Syria, the administration official told us. The Washington Post reported that the Russian strikes have resulted in a halt of humanitarian aid from Turkey as well.”

    • Replies: @Kiza
    , @RobinG
  128. Kiza says:

    I love it when CIA and its MTI become humanitarian organisations in the Western MSM and their weapons and munitions shipments become humanitarian aid. At least we find out that the Russian strikes are preventing such benevolence.

  129. utu says:

    Is the US trying to deescalate?

    All US F-15 fighters leave Turkish airbase for unnamed reason
    They just put them there in November after supposed long negotiations with Turkey

    At the same time Spain will not withdraw Patriots as planned from Turkey

  130. RobinG says:

    “The administration could decide to resume flights in support of the rebels…”

    TEXT of H.R.4108


    Notwithstanding any other provision of law, funds available to the Central Intelligence Agency, the Department of Defense, or any other agency or entity of the United States involved in intelligence activities, or to the National Security Council or its staff may not be obligated or expended to provide assistance, including training, equipment, supplies, stipends, construction of training and associated facilities, and sustainment, to any element of the Syrian opposition or to any other Syrian group or individual seeking to overthrow the government of the Syrian Arab Republic, unless, after the date of the enactment of this Act, funds are specifically authorized to be appropriated and appropriated by law for such purpose.

    Are you an American? This bill, introduced Nov.19, has been referred to House Committee on Armed Srevices. CO-SPONSORS are NEEDED! Will you contact your Representative?

    My goal is 10 co-sponsors by Christmas (to meet Geokat’s challenge, ha!)

  131. geokat62 says:

    My goal is 10 co-sponsors by Christmas (to meet Geokat’s challenge, ha!)

    I’m still in. But the only condition is we meet in DC so I can buy you a coffee, if I lose.

    The onus is on you to give us the final tally on the 26th, though.

    btw – I sincerely hope I lose.

  132. tbraton says:
    @The most deplorable one

    “It would be interesting if that was their current position given claims by the USSR about women serving in combat during WWII.”

    I don’t think the Soviets had any choice during WWII. It was a fight to the death. The U.S. drafted more than 10 million men during WWII, and I don’t think they were especially careful to exclude homosexuals, even though their regulations probably required it. My neighbor two doors away in the late 70’s until mid 80’s, who was 20 years older than I, was a homosexual who fought in Europe during WWII and was awarded the Silver Star. When you desperately need manpower, any body will do. I believe they drafted blacks but barred them from combat until late in the war: “While most African Americans serving at the beginning of WWII were assigned to non-combat units and relegated to service duties, such as supply, maintenance, and transportation, their work behind front lines was equally vital to the war effort. Many drove for the famous “Red Ball Express,” which carried a half million tons of supplies to the advancing First and Third Armies through France. By 1945, however, troop losses virtually forced the military to begin placing more African American troops into positions as infantrymen, pilots, tankers, medics, and officers in increasing numbers.”

  133. RobinG says:

    Much earlier in the war than 1945….

    The 99th Pursuit Squadron (later, 99th Fighter Squadron) was the first black flying squadron, and the first to deploy overseas (to North Africa in April 1943, and later to Sicily and Italy). The 332nd Fighter Group, which originally included the 100th, 301st, and 302nd Fighter Squadrons, was the first black flying group. The group deployed to Italy in early 1944. In June 1944, the 332nd Fighter Group began flying heavy bomber escort missions, and in July 1944, the 99th Fighter Squadron was assigned to the 332nd Fighter Group, which then had four fighter squadrons

    • Replies: @tbraton
  134. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:

    However, when you are forced to use everyone you start scraping the bottom of the barrel as you indicate.

    The reason for my question is that if the modern Russian forces do not use women in combat positions that tells us something about the actual desirability of using women in combat positions, don’t you think.

    • Replies: @tbraton
  135. tbraton says:

    Yes, you’re right. I apologize for my blatant error. We not only started using blacks in combat roles from the very start of WWII, but we fully integrated our military starting in 1776 when the Declaration of Independence declared that “all men are created equal.” After all, what are grand principles for if you don’t live up to them? Sorry I got it all wrong. And, btw, I was also wrong about the Iraq War. Saddam Hussein did have WMDs which threatened the U.S., he was the mastermind behind 9/11, he had close links to Al Qaeda, and he planned to invade the U.S. There was an Axis of Evil, and George W. Bush was probably our brightest and greatest President. And, btw, Tesla is greatly underpriced and a great buy in the stock market.

  136. tbraton says:
    @The most deplorable one

    Just to eliminate any doubt, I don’t think women should have any role in combat at least until after we abolish all separate sports competitions for women and they have demonstrated that they can compete equally with men in a somewhat less lethal environment. I was merely tossing out a possible explanation for why many Soviet women fought against the Germans during WWII. Based on what I read, it appears that those two women who got so much favorable press when they recently qualified as Rangers only did so when several of the standards were lowered specifically for them. Well, if they had lowered the basketball rim a couple of feet, I might have been able to dunk a basketball.

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