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When Zelenskii came to power, there were two fundamental options he could have chosen. These options were, roughly:

Option one or pragmatism above ideology: to make a determined effort to address Ukraine’s most urgent problems. At the very least, Zelenskii could have ordered his forces to stop firing and have them withdraw to a safe distance (Zelenskii had the full authority to do so, as soon as he was inaugurated and he did not need anybody’s help to do so). Obviously, such a move would have to be coordinated with the LDNR forces. And that, in turn, means that at the very least, Zelenskii should have opened a channel of direct communications with the two republics. This option could be described as “beginning to implement at least the very first steps of the Minsk Agreements.”

Option two ideology above pragmatism: to make a determined effort not to address Ukraine’s most urgent problems. The priority here is to declare that the Ukraine will not honor the Minsk Agreements: no talks with the LDNR, no ceasefire, no withdrawal of forces, no amnesty and, most definitely, no discussions about any kind of special status for the Donbass. This option could be described as “more of the same” or “Poroshenko reloaded.”

Prince Otto von Bismarck once famously said that “politics is the art of the possible” and I think that this is an excellent rule to keep in mind when trying to figure out what is going on and what might happen next. There is a lot of hyperbolic rhetoric out there, but no matter how delusional Ukie politicians can be, the reality remains something objective, and that objective reality is what will shape the future, not the empty ideological nonsense spewed by politicians (whether Ukrainian ones or AngloZionists).

Even his own presidential website does not work!
Even his own presidential website does not work!

As of right now, the overwhelming majority of experts have agreed that Zelenskii is not going for Option #1. This strongly suggests that the Ukraine is going for Option #2. But, as I have indicated above, Zelenskii’s Option #2 is nothing more than, well, “more of the same.” And this makes sense, especially if we consider that:

1) the same causes produce the same outcomes (after all “insanity is repeating the same thing over and over expecting a different result) and

2) the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior

So what really happened? Why is Zelenskii apparently dead set on repeating all the same mistakes Poroshenko made?

As I have indicated in a recent article, the Ukraine is not a democracy but an oligarchy: ever since 1991 the most prosperous Soviet republic was mercilessly plundered by an entire class (in the Marxist sense of the word) of oligarchs whose biggest fear has always been that the same “horror” (from their point of view) which befell Russia with Putin, would eventually arrive at the Ukraine.

Here we need to make something clear: this is NOT, repeat, NOT about nationality or nationalism. The Ukrainian oligarchs are just like any other oligarchs: their loyalty is to their money and nothing else. If you want to characterize these oligarchs, you could think of them as culturally “post-Soviet” meaning that they don’t care about nationality, and even though their prime language is Russian, they don’t give a damn about Russia or Russians (or anybody else, for that matter!). Since many of them are Jews, they have a network of supporters/accomplices in Israel of course, but also in the West and even in Russia. In truth, these guys are the ultimate “internationalists” in their own, toxic, kind of way.

Some fine specimens of “ochlocrats”
Some fine specimens of “ochlocrats”

The other significant force in the Ukraine is the West Ukrainian (Galician) Nazi death-squads and mobs. Their power is not a democracy either, but an ochlocracy. These guys are a minority, a pretty small one even, but they have enough muscle and even firepower to threaten any nominal Ukrainian leader. Furthermore, these folks have profoundly infiltrated all the police and security forces which, in theory, would have been able to control or disarm them (the SBU, especially, is chock full of Urkonazi thugs).

Now let’s begin by looking at the oligarchs: their number 1 priority is to continue to plunder the Ukraine. For that, you need the opposite of “law and order”: you need lawlessness, chaos, violence and, most importantly, you need the tiny figleaf of “the Moskal aggression” to hide behind. In other words, while these oligarchs probably do not want an open a full-scale war with the LDNR (or, even less with Russia herself), they simply cannot allow peace to break-out.

The Ukronazis don’t want peace to break out either, lest their influence and power shrink back to something roughly proportional to their share of the population of the Ukraine. Besides, since their entire ideology and worldview is all about hating Russia and being anti-Russia, any peace with Russia is literally unthinkable for them. They and their Polish supporters want Russia to break apart in numerous small state-lets which they (or, in their delusional dreams, the Chinese) could dominate. These folks will always perceive Russia as an existential threat. In their own way, they are absolutely right: Russia will always remain the reality check on their delusions. This was as true in the distant 13th century as it is nowadays.

Finally, let’s keep in mind that neither the oligarchs nor the Ukronazis genuinely want the people of Crimea and the Donbass to be part of “their” Ukraine since the overwhelming majority of these people would categorically oppose both the oligarchs and the Ukronazis. Yes, for prestige and ideological reasons, all these Galician Nazis will always declare that “Crimea is forever Ukrainian” and “we shall reconquer the Donbass,” but what they are genuinely fantasizing about is the territory, and only the territory. As for the 2 million-plus virulently anti-Nazi people currently living on these lands, they simply want them either dead or expelled).

ORDER IT NOW

So, while about 70% or so of the people of the Ukraine want peace to return and the horrors of the civil war to finally stop, the only two groups who have real power want the civil war in the East to continue. There are even quite a few Zelenskii nominees who have declared that war with the LDNR is the only way to solve the crisis. Some even want war with Russia!

Reality, however, is a pesky thing and, as the expression goes, if your head is in the sand, your butt is in the air and the collective Ukronazi “butt” has been exposed in the air for several years now. This is also true for the supposed “reforms” of the Ukronazi forces.

Quite a few signs are indicating that most of the so-called “reforms” and “reorganization” of the Ukronazi forces were more about corruption (what else!?) and window dressing than anything else. Galicians are generally famous as world-class torturers and executioners of civilians, but not really military commanders (this is why Ukronazi “historians” are now desperately parsing every year in the history of what is called the Ukraine today to find some kind of “Ukrainian” victory; all they came up with so far are very small, completely irrelevant, local battles). In contrast, the LDNR forces seem to be doing pretty well, and their morale appears to be as strong as ever (which is unsurprising since their military ethos is based in 1000 years of Russian military history). Last, but certainly not least, there is Putin’s rather striking warning during the Olympics when he declared that any Ukronazi attack would have, quote, “very serious consequences for Ukrainian statehood.”

This warning was apparently heeded both in Kiev and in Washington, DC.

The mood of the Russian public opinion seems to be one of total disgust and frustrated anger. It’s not like Zelenskii was ever very popular in Russia, but at least he was no Nazi, and he seemed to be willing to take at least the very first steps towards finally stopping the insanity. That hope is now totally shattered (the Russian media reports all the anti-Russian statements of the various Zelenskii nominees daily).

While the Kremlin more often than not sticks to its traditional diplomatic language, most Russian experts appear to be fed-up with Zelenskii and his antics and are now all pushing for some kind of hardening of the Russian stance towards this 5-year long Banderastan. And the Kremlin has paid attention: Russia is now handing out passports to pretty much any Ukrainian wanting to get one. This is the first step in a time-tested sequence, the next one which would be the recognition of the LDNR as sovereign states (as was done in Abkhazia and South Ossetia).

Many wonder what in the world Putin is waiting for and why Russia has not officially recognized these republics yet?

The reasons for this are as simple as they are compelling:

First, any premature recognition would further fuel the western fairy-tale about “Russia” having “invaded” the Ukraine to grab land. If the AngloZionists did not shy away from making such claims while Russian forces were still in their barracks, you could imagine the hysterical shrieks we would have heard from the “collective West” if Russia indeed had decided to move her forces into the Donbass to stop the Ukronazi aggression!

Second, to the degree that the Empire created an “anti-Russia” with its Ukronazi Banderastan, Russia created an “anti-Banderastan” with the LDNR. This is very important and must never be overlooked: yes, Nazi-occupied Ukraine is a never healing wound in the side of Russia, but Novorussia also is a never healing wound in the side of Nazi-occupied Ukraine. The big difference is that Russia is strong enough to cope with her wound, whereas the Ukronazi Banderastan never had a chance and has already collapsed beyond any hope of survival.

Third, Russia simply cannot afford to pay by herself the immense bill for the eventual reconstruction of devastated Ukraine. Just fixing Crimea is already an enormous and extremely costly task for Russia, especially after decades of Ukie neglect, but at least down the road, it is obvious that Crimea is headed for prosperity and that the returns on investment will be huge. But single-handedly rebuilding the entire Donbass is probably beyond the Russian means. Currently, Russia is already providing vast amounts of aid to the Novorussians, and she is basically maxed out.

Finally, let’s remember here that the UNSC approved the Minsk Agreements and that, as such, they are not an elective: the Minsk Agreements are obligatory under international law. And here is the beauty: Russia is not a part of the Minsk Agreements, only the Ukraine and the LDNR are. Thus while the AngloZionists mantrically repeat that “Russia must be sanctioned for not abiding by the Minsk Agreements” or “Russia must do more” – they all do secretly realize that this is empty, hot, air. Besides, even the duller western leaders now are beginning to realize which side truly does not want to abide by these agreements.

The sweet irony of Ukie politics: a Ukronazi vandalizes the portrait of the man who created the Ukraine in the first place!
The sweet irony of Ukie politics: a Ukronazi vandalizes the portrait of the man who created the Ukraine in the first place!

These agreements are even less popular in Novorussia than they are in Kiev: it is an open secret that the Novorussians will never agree to be ruled from Kiev again. Ever. And, sooner or later, they will join Russia in some shape or form. But that is in the future. For the time being, the Novorussians are smart enough to realize that they should go along and let the Ukronazi idiots openly sabotage these agreements. And since Zelenskii and his nominees are now declaring that they will never negotiate with the LDNR (which the Minsk Agreements require), it is not Russia or the LDNR which destroyed these agreements, but the Ukrainian government, quite officially so.

One striking development since the election of Zelenskii is the number of Ukrainian political figures which have openly declared that the Ukraine should simply militarily re-capture the Donbass (some even suggested Crimea). It is thus probably a good idea to revisit the military options on all sides.

Let’s begin with the Ukronazi dream: this is pretty straightforward, and plenty of Ukrainian officials have mentioned the “Croatian option” which refers to the surprise attack of the Croats (fully backed by NATO) against the Serbian UN Protection Areas in Croatia (see “Operation Storm” on Wikipedia). The model is simple: pretend to negotiate in good faith, get (sympathetic) peacekeepers to disarm all the locals, then attack them with everything you’ve got. If the LDNR were all alone, cut off from Russia, there could be a theoretical (if somewhat unlikely) chance of success of such an attack. But we need to remember here that the Krajina-Serbs (and the Bosnian-Serbs too) were betrayed by Slobodan Milosevic who did nothing to protect them. In fact, Serbia even slammed sanctions against the Republika Srpska. Finally, NATO had complete and total air supremacy.

The case of the LDNR could not be more different because far from betraying the Donbass or imposing sanctions as Milosevic did, Putin gave the LDNR the full support of Russia. If the Ukrainians do attack, Russia will have a very wide array of options to chose from including:

  1. Sending in more humanitarian aid
  2. Sending in more military equipment (the “Voentorg”)
  3. Sending in more volunteers (the “northern wind”), especially highly trained professionals
  4. Sharing intelligence and reconnaissance data with the LDNR forces
  5. Deploying forward air controllers (FACs) in special forces teams to coordinate artillery strikes on Ukronazi targets from across the border
  6. Shooting down Ukrainian missiles and aircraft (including UAVs)
  7. Engaging Russian electronic warfare units to disrupt Ukie signals (radars, including counter-battery, GNSS signals, audio, and video communications, data links, etc.)

So far, this is what Russia has already done in the past (options #5-6-7 only in a few specific instances).

Now what people usually see as the next escalatory option for Russia would be to send ground forces into Novorussia to directly engage the attacking Ukronazi forces.

In truth, Russia has plenty of other options before a ground operation. For example, one further Russian option could include:

  1. Officially declaring a “humanitarian no-fly zone” à la Libya, in which “all means necessary” will be used to stop the aggression and then immediately send in Russian fixed-wing and rotary-wing close air support & strike aircraft (under cover of interceptors and multi-role fighters, of course) and even bombers to destroy advancing Ukie units.

Russia could very easily declare a no-fly zone over the Donbass without moving a single air defense unit across the border: Russian long-range air defenses are more than enough to “lock” that entire airspace, especially if combined with AWACS and interceptors (with long-range missiles).

Still, these steps, while very visible, would still be limited to the Donbass area of operations. But Russia could take this one step further and strike very specific targets in the rest of the Ukraine. Specifically,

  1. Russia could sink the entire (tiny) Ukrainian “fleet” in port or on the high seas. That would not be militarily significant, but politically it would send the correct message.
  1. Russia could decide to also destroy the Ukrainian air force by destroying the main Ukrainian airfields. Russia could very easily do this with long-range cruise missiles. Once enough runways, ATC towers, radars, fuel and oil storage facilities, etc. are destroyed, the Ukrainian airforce as such would cease to exist (even if individual aircraft could be hidden and survive the Russian strikes).
  2. Next, Russia could get serious with the Ukrainian ground forces and begin striking key command posts, communication nodes, fuel and ammo dumps, bridges, etc. The goal here would not be to kill as many Ukrainian servicemen as possible, but to hit in the right places to make it impossible for the Ukrainian military to engage in coordinated offensive operations.
  3. Finally, Russia could decide to open the hunting season on key officials and begin executing some of the most odious Nazi officials (just to scare the rest). Again, cruise missiles are probably the most obvious option here, but other options can be very successfully used including the “Dudaev trick” (an antiradiation missile aimed at a Satphone signal) or even go “full NATO” and begin hitting politically symbolic buildings.

I mention these last four options because these are doable, but they are also total overkill.

The truth is that should Russia ever truly intervene, most Ukrainian servicemen will run or surrender (they did not vote Zelenskii for the privilegeto die for a sick, Nazi, ideology and worldview). Again, past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior and the case of the Crimea has shown that once the (relatively small!!) Russian forces intervened, nobody had the courage (or the motivation) to resist.

The popular joke about this goes like this: ask a Ukrainian nationalist why the Ukrainians are fighting in the Donbass, and the obligatory politically correct answer is “because the Russians are there!”; and if you then ask him why the Ukraine is not fighting in Crimea, he will reply “because the Russians are really there!“. This is very true. The Urkonazis have tried to engage in low-level forms of terrorism (planting bombs, mostly), but with very little success. As for really attacking Crimea (probably one of the best-defended locations on the planet by now!) – that would be a suicide mission for an entire US Marine Expeditionary Force (MEF), never-mind the derelict Ukie military!

Furthermore, for the Russians, they have been intensively preparing for a major war against NATO for at least five years now (for details, see here) and they are quite ready to take on the united West (that is what Guards Tank Armies are designed to do), so for them to take on the decrepit, corrupt, demoralized, disorganized and generally “mangy” Ukronazi forces would not even represent a significant effort. Every halfway competent military analyst out there knows that. Even the Ukronazi ones.

What this all means for the Zelenskii administration is simple: if you try the “Croatian scenario” you will end up not with a “Croatian outcome” but a “Georgia 08.08.08 outcome”: obliteration of your armed forces in 48 hours, followed by the net loss of 20% of your national territory (probably more in the case of the Ukraine!).

For many years now I have been explaining that the real goal of any Ukronazi attack on Novorussia would not be to really win, but to force Russia to openly intervene. However, this strategy has failed while the balance of forces, including in political terms, has changed. It is one thing to start a war with the LDNR only to force Russia to intervene, and quite another to expose your entire country to “very serious consequences” for its entire “statehood.” Putin’s (truly quite extraordinary) threat has explicitly raised the bar of the potential Russian retaliation much higher than it was before.

So is there anything even vaguely resembling *any* kind of solution in sight?

Well, in theory, there would have been the Minsk Agreement solution. The Novorussians would not like it, but Russia could probably impose it upon them. Russia herself sure could live with such an outcome (no, Russia has absolutely no need of any additional territories, especially devastated ones!). But since the Ukronazis are too ideological and delusional to ever accept that option, then there is an obvious Plan B: Russia unilaterally recognizes the LDNR Republics who then vote to join the Russian Federation. In theory, the rest of the Ukraine could realize that there are advantages to this situation, including getting rid of 2 million anti-Nazis. But their ideology (really a local uniquely Galician brand of ultra-nationalism – similar only to the WWII Ustashe regime in Croatia – imposed upon the entire country) makes it absolutely impossible for these rabid nationalists to accept such a loss of territory, particularly in a humiliating civil war against their own people (or so they claim). Simply put, you cannot claim to be the descended of the 200’000 year old “Ancient Ukrs” who built the pyramids, who dug the Black Sea, who gave birth to the Aryan civilization and whose language is the basis of Sanskrit and, at the same time, admit that a big chunk of your own population prefers death to life under your rule. In reality, not only are these folks not willing to accept any loss of territory (whether de jure or de facto), some of them are even claiming territories inside the Russian Federation.

Thankfully, their delusions really make no difference: Novorussia and Crimea are gone, forever, no matter what anybody says.

ORDER IT NOW

Frankly, I believe that even without Crimea and even without Novorussia current Nazi-occupied Ukraine is still not viable, if only because the southern regions (Odessa, Nikolaev, Mariupol) will never agree to become Nazi-occupied protectorates of the very same Galician Urkonazis who have already burned people alive in Odessa. The truth is that the Galicians would be much better off severing their (entirely artificial) ties to what is known as “the Ukraine” nowadays and fallback to their true historical lands. Ideology, however, will never allow most of them to see that. The process of disintegration of the rump-Ukraine will probably continue in one form or another.

Conclusion: how one slogan can lead to a very different one

The entire Ukronazi worldview can be summarized in their well-known slogan: “to drown all the Kikes and Polaks in Moskal blood” (or some variations thereof). The problem with this slogan is that there is simply no way the (relatively small) Galician population can ever succeed in permanently defeating their much bigger (and, frankly, much smarter) Jewish, Polish or Russian neighbors. Thus time and again, the policies which begin with this famous Ukie slogan inevitably result in a rather painful variation on another very famous Ukie slogan: “suitcase, railway station, Russia” but, crucially, in a fundamentally different combination: “suitcase, railway station, and back to Canada/Israel!” 😉

I personally don’t care what happens to these folks or to the lands which they historically inhabited. If the Austrians, the Poles, the Hungarians or the Germans want them – they are welcome to have them. After all, these are the folks who, along with the Papacy, created the Ukraine and the Ukronazi phenomenon. So, bien du plaisir!, as the French say: let them enjoy their offspring!

If the people of some future rump-Ukraine are strong and wise enough to get rid of that Nazi rot – good for them, they can count on Russian help and support for reconstruction. But if they are not – then that’s their problem.

When humans go out of their way to ignore reality, they deserve whatever comes their way.

 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: Russia, Ukraine, Vladimir Zelensky 
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  1. peterAUS says:

    Not…one….word….about….genuine…Ukrainian……nationalists.
    Not oligarchs, not Galician extremists, but simply Ukrainian nationalists.
    Good.

    • Agree: Alternate History
  2. Lot says:

    “I personally don’t care what happens to these folks or to the lands which they historically inhabited.”

    Yeah right, you Putinbots are completely obsessed with Ukraine.

    • Replies: @Alternate History
  3. Can you stop with the Ukronazi crap, what kind of Nazi Government has a Jewish PM and Jewish President ?
    Azov guys dying in Donbass and the street thugs in Kiev are just cannon fodder, they don’t run shit

    The majority of Ukranians don’t want to be in this conflict, I don’t see the point in demonizing all of them because of some fascist larpers

  4. Since many of them are Jews, they have a network of supporters/accomplices in Israel of course, but also in the West and even in Russia. In truth, these guys are the ultimate “internationalists” in their own, toxic, kind of way.

    Pure coincidence that this internationalist clique of oligarchs plundering Ukraine is Jewish. This is probably the first time that something like this has ever happened. They could just have easily have been Finns or Abkhazians

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  5. Malla says:

    People need to move on from the past and stop all that hating others for some past deeds. Polish or Western Ukrainian hatred for Russians, Russian hatred for Germans, Chinese & Korean hatred for the Japanese, Indian hatred for the British or the Chinese, Black South African hatred for Afrikaners. All these are counter productive for the people and are emotions which can be whipped up by the elites to have commoners die like cannon fodder at worst or to take away attention towards a past historic enemy to hide their own corruption/ incompetence at best.
    People need to see things from the other side as well.

    As far as the Satanic Zio elite pigs, they will use any ideology as long as it serves them. Democracy, Communism, anti-Communism, Islamic fundamentalism, anti-Islam, Jingoistic Nationalism, Anti-Nationalism/One Worldism, feminism, Hindutva, Buddhist fundamentalism (Sri Lanka BBS and the secret Zionist hand), Neo-Conservatism, Leftism, Colonialism, anti-Colonialism as long it suits them. They use them and discard them away when needed. But this seems to be the most extreme case ever. For the first time the Zio elites are using National Socialism as an ideology to serve them. The ideology which was probably the greatest enemy and threat to the Zio elites, in human history. Freakin crazy!!!

    • Replies: @Antares
    , @Gerard2
  6. Marcus says:
    @Korenchkin

    Doubly true since the Faker himself would be called a “Nazi” for his “Anglo-Zionist” bs that he spews while living in Florida aka Brooklyn with palm trees

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
  7. Mr. Hack says:

    More grist for Saker’s suckers. The Galicians (and Ukro-Nazi Jews) are behind everything. In Saker’s simplistic mind the Galicians have infiltrated all of Ukrainian society and run the whole show, when in fact this is just a bunch of nonsense. Well, at least Saker is putting to use his favorite Ukrainian pejorative…do I really need to repeat it again, ad nauseum?

    • Troll: bluedog
  8. Mulegino1 says:

    I see. The “Ukro-Nazis”, in support of the Jewish oligarchs and the Jewish leaders of Ukraine, in some strange way, embody the spirit of 1941 and Operation Barbarossa. Not.

    The whole political world appears to have gone upside down. The ethnic Russians of Donbass, despite their denunciations of the “Nazi” Ukrainians, would appear to represent-however unwillingly- the spirit and goal of Barbarossa while the Ukies and their “Nazi” batallions would appear to be doing the bidding of their Atlanticist-Zionist masters. I respect the valiant defenders of Donbass and wish they would eventually march on Kiev and give a bloody nose to kosher NATO and its lackeys.

    The struggle of nationalism and ethnos against globalism and the rule of international predatory Jewish finance, knows no boundaries, rules, or clear definitions. It is quite obvious to me that the Germans were poised to bring down the Judeo-Bolshevik empire in late 1941, then history turned on a dime. Stalin turned the struggle for world revolution into the “great patriotic war.” The newly re-christened “Russians” fought off the Germans and their allies in cahoots with and with some help from the Anglo-Americans and their own auxiliaries.

    Ukraine could have become the equivalent of the American Midwest under German (National Socialist) economic development. Instead it has suffered under Jewish, or kosher, mismanagement for nearly a hundred years.

  9. ‘ …Russia will always remain the reality check on their delusions. This was as true in the distant 13th century as it is nowadays…’

    It’s nit-picking, but you might want to edit that sentence slightly.

    In the thirteenth century, both the Ukrainians and the Russians faced more dire threats than each other.

    • Replies: @Korenchkin
  10. Jeepers. I count the word ‘Nazi’ or some compound involving it thirty one times in the piece.

    That makes it pretty clear who’s in the right! Thanks for clearing that up.

  11. @Mr. Hack

    ‘…Ukro-Nazi Jews…’

    You have to admit that’s an impressive combination.

  12. @Colin Wright

    In the thirteenth century, both the Ukrainians and the Russians faced more dire threats than each other.
    I’d argue that today they face a far bigger threat, one that could erase their entire culture and race
    If the Ukraine ends up in the hands of the EU and Russia gets taken over by Eurasiansts then their future will be far grimmer then anything the Tatars could’ve done to them

  13. @Mulegino1

    Fundamental truth:

    The struggle of nationalism and ethnos against globalism and the rule of international predatory Jewish finance, knows no boundaries, rules, or clear definitions.

    Thus the label “The Enemies of Humanity”, and the reason why a Louis Farrakhan / David Duke summit coalition in opposition offers the possibility for instantly revitalizing Middle America’s sense of proper direction like no other human effort could, and the politicians who resist would be stripped naked showing themselves as treasonous shabby goys.

  14. Adûnâi says:

    “The other significant force in the Ukraine is the West Ukrainian (Galician) Nazi death-squads and mobs.”

    Where are death camps for the Jews? Where are racial laws that expel non-Ukrainians? Where is the propaganda of eugenics and healthy lifestyle? Where are construction projects bringing in jobs, and state-subsidized recreation tours?

    Ukraine is a Jew-driven shithole that has nothing to do with National Socialism. They don’t even honour the sacrifice of the SS Galizien.

    “but what they are genuinely fantasizing about is the territory, and only the territory. As for the 2 million-plus virulently anti-Nazi people currently living on these lands, they simply want them either dead or expelled).”

    A lie. Currently, more than a half of those “expelled” have migrated inside Ukraine. A stark contrast to Croatia where the Serbs were driven out of the country, and their land given to Croats.

    Again, Ukraine is suicidal and full of civic nationalism, nothing about it is blood-based.

    “They and their Polish supporters want Russia to break apart in numerous small state-lets which they (or, in their delusional dreams, the Chinese) could dominate.”

    Why do you consider this as a negative for the Russian people? The current Russian state is in its death throes as much as the US and France – the ethnic Russians are dying out, fleeing and being replaced. Any alternative might prove out more hopeful.

    “In contrast, the LDNR forces seem to be doing pretty well, and their morale appears to be as strong as ever (which is unsurprising since their military ethos is based in 1000 years of Russian military history).”

    I have to remind you that the Donbass was colonized far more recently than Ukraine – in the 18-19th centuries. What “ancient” traditions?

    “but Novorussia also is a never healing wound in the side of Nazi-occupied Ukraine”

    The Donbass has never been part of Novorussia which is to the west, from Dniepropetrovsk to Odessa. Admittedly, Novorussia’s colonists were mostly from Ukraine – it is clearly seen on the language maps.

    “The problem with this slogan is that there is simply no way the (relatively small) Galician population can ever succeed in permanently defeating their much bigger (and, frankly, much smarter) Jewish, Polish or Russian neighbors.”

    Khmelnitsky managed to do just that – 100k dead Jews. And he’s on the Ukrainian currency. Too bad modern “Nazi” Ukrainians have elected a Jew President. This is not the Khmelnitsky uprising, this is Kiev under the Khazar Khaganate before Oleg came from the North.

  15. In truth, Russia has plenty of other options before a ground operation.

    These days that means drones. Basically, attacking the logistical chain, fuel and ammo depots.

    Gum up the gears.

  16. Mr. Hack says:
    @Colin Wright

    So is “Dumb as Dog S__t.” 🙂

    • Troll: Colin Wright
  17. AP says:

    It’s a of nonsense as usual. This piece is quickly refuted:

    ever since 1991 the most prosperous Soviet republic

    People who spread this myth are ignorant or liars. It’s a common one, though.

    In 1990 Ukraine’s per capita GDP was $1570.

    Russia’s was $3485.
    Belarus was $2124.

    So in Soviet times, Ukraine was the poorest of the three Slavic Soviet Republics. It still is, the position hasn’t changed. It’s just fallen further behind.

    ::::::::

    Everything else is just as nonsensical, I won’t even bother to detail it, most of the commenters here are as dumb/ignorant/dishonest (take your pick) as the author pretends to be.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  18. peterAUS says:
    @AP

    It’s a of nonsense as usual.

    ….Everything else is just as nonsensical, I won’t even bother to detail it…

    Yes.
    That’s not the interesting part, I guess. Taking into account

    ….as the author pretends to be….

    what’s your take: why he writes like that/we have such posts here?

  19. I don’t know where Saker sources his history. Lenin had nothing to do with the creation of Ukraine.

    I live in Western Canada, where Ukrainians come starting in the late 19th century. I’m not referring to the primarily German speaking Mennonites that left South Central Ukraine, in the 1870s, fleeing religious persecution. By WWI, more than 200,000 were in Western Canada from all parts of Ukraine. They considered themselves Ukrainians, not Russians, or Galicians. They were, and to a great extent, still are Ukrainian nationalists. There continues to be friction with Polish and German local populations, although prior to the “rebirth” of Ukraine, it had largely subsided. Recent Russian immigrants are shunned as much as the “Poles” and “Germans”. Politically, they are generally left of center, and have been since their arrival, although in recent decades more have become “conservative” (whatever that means these days). A long ago former Russian Jewish co-worker who was a late 60s “escapee” from the USSR, told me that he would never vote for one of our political parties, because there were “too many Ukrainians” in the party. I asked a “Ukrainian” friend, who I had known since grade school, what that meant. His explanation was that there had always been tensions between Jews and Ukrainians, for centuries, because of what Ukrainians believed was exploitation by the Jews. Other “Ukrainians” and “Jews” have confirmed this.

    The reality is, that most people in most countries just want to live their lives in peace, with a job good enough to provide a decent home and food for the family. That 70% of Ukrainians want that is not surprising, it’s normal. That doesn’t mean they aren’t nationalists, and it doesn’t mean they are Nazis. However screwed up they are in trying to do so, Ukrainians are struggling to retain their identity and culture. IMO, they are up against internationalist forces from all sides, and none are interested in letting that happen.

    • Agree: Colin Wright
    • Replies: @Beckow
    , @Andrei Martyanov
  20. AP says:
    @peterAUS

    ….as the author pretends to be….

    what’s your take: why he writes like that/we have such posts here?

    Bringing out anti-Americans into the “open”? Bored? Vain (wanting to be considered as some sort of “expert” by those who know very little or nothing)?

  21. Beckow says:
    @Curmudgeon

    The Nazi name-calling is over the top, and not just with regard to Ukraine or Galicia. Historical grievances or revisions are not ‘Nazism’. Too many people look at Ukraine and over-interpret the nostalgia for Bandera or simple national self-assertion.

    But I think Saker is right about where this is going. Russian side has local dominance and that will not change. The only game in town for the last 5 years has been to see if the Western squeeze of Russia will work faster than the Russian squeeze of Ukraine. By now it is obvious that it won’t.

    Kiev has made some fatal mistakes. E.g. Minsk agreement was an incredibly generous deal, if Poroshenko had half a brain he would had jumped on it and today Donbas would be a remote backwater with autonomy. So? The state would be intact, taxes would be paid, passports centrally issued, etc… The eastern European dynamic is that any population always ends up disliking its immediate rulers – how long before local leaders in Donbas would be challenged by some younger corruption fighters.

    The whole Maidan thing was also terribly mismanaged – at its core it was about getting the best potential deal for Ukraine with EU (and Russia). In the middle of the negotiation suddenly Maidanistas decided that symbols are more important than reality and basically folded in front of EU. Consequently Russia walked. Thus Kiev got justa bout the worst possible combination on non-EU and deep hostility with Russia. Smarter guys would had handled it much better, playing both sides against each other – raising the stakes.

    And let’s not even get started on Crimea, while Ukies ate stale cookies, they lost overnight their most valuable possession – they couldn’t anticipate it? Being able to anticipate is a key to intelligence and in playing any game.

    So we can talk about what or who is driving modern Ukraine, oligarchs, Galicians, Jews, Kiev thugs, Canadians – it doesn’t matter, what matters is that they are incompetent. From Yushenko to Zelensky they are amateurs driven by emotion and greed. There is no state-forming force, there is no true Ukrainian nationalism that would play up Ukraine’s strengths and manage its weaknesses. Saker is basically right – they are in a no-win cul-de-sac, at this point any move will make their situation worse. Their best (only?) hope is a collapse of Russia. Now, how likely is that?

    • Agree: GMC
  22. bevin says:
    @Korenchkin

    ” what kind of Nazi Government has a Jewish PM and Jewish President ?”
    Israel.

  23. @peterAUS

    This is not a real nation. There is no such thing as “genuine Ukrainian nationalists”.

    AP doesn’t count – the dude lives in Canada! So Galician nutters is all you get.

    • Replies: @Korenchkin
    , @peterAUS
  24. @Felix Keverich

    Autism of this degree does not pop out of nowhere
    You had Cossacks and Mercenaries from the Ukraine joining up with the Poles, Swedes, Napoleon, Germans and others. Calling diaspora nationalists stupid is all fine and dandy but the constant bickering between people in current Ukraine and in Russia stinks of divide and conquer (which is what Ukraine vs Russia conflicts always were)

    Calling them stupid and calling their ethnicity fake(which they make an actual effort to preserve, such as it is) stinks of hypocrisy when so many Great Russians were willing to tear their country, religion and people apart in 1917 and join up with the Bolsheviks in the rape and pillaging

    You’d probably get far more progress calling them a branch of Russian civilization, you can cite Belarus and Siberian Ukraine as examples
    It’s easy to dogpile on some poor Hohol since they will always be on the defensive, but it’s much harder to understand him and admit your own faults while not backing down from your standpoint that you are both one people

    Serbs often made the same mistakes with Montenegro, and the result is the modern day shitfest where both it and Ukraine are run by hostile US puppets

  25. The Saker is correct that reality and pragmatism are essential ‘when trying to figure out what is going on and what might happen next.’ It is a hard calculation to make in a world increasingly chaotic and dark. The Minsk Accord is probably the only glimmer of light for Ukraine, but then all the lights – across the world – are going out.
    https://www.ghostsofhistory.wordpress.com/

  26. @Curmudgeon

    However screwed up they are in trying to do so, Ukrainians are struggling to retain their identity and culture. IMO, they are up against internationalist forces from all sides, and none are interested in letting that happen.

    What you posted is called a generic “to be against everything bad, for everything good”. Living in a world of unicorns and having rainbows as result of bowel movement is, of course, a worthy aspiration but reality with Ukraine is a teeny-weeny bit more complicated than mere attempts to “retain their identity and culture”. I’ll give you a hint, vast swaths of Ukrainian population (including in the East Ukraine) believe, as an example, that Ukrainian civilization precedes a Sumerian one. Many, very many, also still believe that valiant Ukrainian Armed Forces still fight, for the 5th year in a row, mighty Russian Army in the East. We are talking here about down right mental breakdown on a national level, granted, as I always say, modern Ukraine did happen, that is coalesced, as a political nation.

    • Troll: Mr. Hack
  27. @Beckow

    There is no state-forming force, there is no true Ukrainian nationalism that would play up Ukraine’s strengths and manage its weaknesses

    There is one–modern Ukraine is a “anti-Russia” project, that is also a foundation of its state ideology and, I may add, mythology.

    • Agree: annamaria
  28. peterAUS says:
    @Felix Keverich

    This is not a real nation. There is no such thing as “genuine Ukrainian nationalists”.

    …the dude lives in Canada!

    You just have no idea how………..nahh…….I’ll pass.
    Moving on.

  29. mejohnr1 says:

    In the thirteenth century, both the Ukrainians and the Russians faced more dire threats than each other.

    In the 13th century there were no Ukrainians or Ukraine. There was Russia though, Rus’. Imagine a US state becoming independent today, from the rest of the US.. like Ohio.. and people are going to say “the first man on the moon was an Ohioan (Armstrong), not an American. Sorry, doesn’t work like that..

    • Replies: @AP
  30. AP says:
    @mejohnr1

    In the 13th century there were no Ukrainians or Ukraine. There was Russia though, Rus’.

    Because how names sound is magic.

    Julius Caesar was really a Romanian.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  31. @peterAUS

    Why bother posting a comment, if you got literally nothing to say? You’re worse than Saker sometimes.

    • Replies: @Anon
  32. Mike-SMO says:

    Ah. The Carrion Bird provides the musical background for the usual Russian Tankie approach to politics. They are re-building their armored theft divisions with sufficient anti-aircraft capability to shoot down any civilian airliners that wander within range. Hey, Thieves! Remember Dier az Zor (however you spell it). Drones, A-10s, AC-130s, Buffs, etc. while you screamed in vain.

    After the Russians (then operating under the “Soviet” trademark) killed 6 – 12 Million Ukrainians and then retreated (ran away) before the German invasion, they now call any Ukrainian who survived the Germans “Nazi” to cover the Bolshevik (Russian) display of cowardice and incompetence. I am sure that the Ukraine has some corruption, it is the remains of the Bolshevik Nomenclatura who hoped to steal what the Soviets abandoned when they fled (again). It takes a while to root-out that filth.

    By the way, the pro-Russian faction in the Ukraine are the Russians trucked into the void left by the “Kulaks” who were murdered by the (Russian) Bolshevik NKVD. If you don’t like the Ukraine, go back to Moscow. I am sure that they have a brand new gulag all ready for those thieves.

    Nice Birdie! Shut up and go crap on someone else’s parade.

    • Replies: @Biff
    , @annamaria
  33. Antares says:
    @Malla

    For the first time the Zio elites are using National Socialism as an ideology to serve them. The ideology which was probably the greatest enemy and threat to the Zio elites, in human history. Freakin crazy!!!

    This is untrue. Without the Nazis there would be no Israel. Why call them enemies? We should not look at appearances but at what is accomplished.

    As far as the Satanic Zio elite pigs, they will use any ideology as long as it serves them.

    Your words. I fixed it for you.

  34. @Colin Wright

    ‘…Ukro-Nazi Jews…’

    You have to admit that’s an impressive combination.

    Yes, but it wasn’t the Saker who invented it; it does seem to reflect what’s going on there. My only criticism is that he has given more prominence to the Nazis than the Jews, unless we consider “oligarchs” as a synonym for Jews.

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
  35. Anon[424] • Disclaimer says:

    In the US they make jokes of dumb polacks , looks like the ucrainians are even dumber . All that part of Europe , central-eastern, seems to have a low IQ and a high degree of agression , a history of very bloody and useless wars .

    The US is full of the descendants of emigrants from those central eastern european countries .

    So much for european pride and for white supremacy .

  36. When I see words like “Nazis” in relation to Ukrainians, I know that article is sh!t & not worth reading.

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
  37. @peterAUS

    why he writes like that/we have such posts here?

    Like you have said in the past he is taking the Russian side. I think it’s a fairly good analysis of the situation if you go beyond his propagandistic terminology and what he leaves unsaid. Russia really doesn’t want to engage directly in the conflict but its best policy would be to bide its time and to encourage more pro-Russian separatism in Odessa and all other regions along the coast so as to eventually cut off Ukraine from access to the sea altogether. That would serve Russian interests best and strengthen its position against NATO, the EU, and the rump Ukraine, for whatever is to follow. It’s a shame for any real Ukranian nationalists but then they should have been smarter than to join all those colour revolutions on Maidan organised by the CIA, Soros, Jewish oligarchs, etc.

    That’s a frozen conflict for now. Let’s have another article on UR about the latest from the US sponsored colour revolution in Hong Kong and what are the best measures that PR China can take to quell the riots. And it’s about time they took back Formosa, but it won’t be as easy as the Russian takeover of Crimea, unless they can send a million Red Army guards there disguised as tourists to stage a silent putsch.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Adûnâi
  38. Anon[185] • Disclaimer says:
    @Felix Keverich

    Yeah.. and if you really press him on a point, his posts get more and more sparse until they’re just a bunch of massive blockquotes with vague one liners in between. He weasels his way out of any serious discussion and waits for the article to go dead so he can run away without losing face.

  39. Biff says:
    @Mike-SMO

    I am sure that the Ukraine has some corruption,

    Maybe? After the coup of 2014, how many government officials had to commit suicide before the new government was comfortably in place?

  40. @AP

    Julius Caesar was really a Romanian.

    Bwahaahahahh…

  41. @peterAUS

    why he writes like that/we have such posts here?

    Why are some people mentally deranged?

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  42. Tom Welsh says:

    “As I have indicated in a recent article, the Ukraine is not a democracy but an oligarchy…”

    Like the USA, the UK, France, Germany, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, India…

    None of those countries have ever been democracies in any sense of the word.

    • Replies: @Robjil
  43. @Korenchkin

    ” what kind of Nazi Government has a Jewish PM and Jewish President ?”

    Israel.

  44. Robjil says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Neonazis is a good term for the people used in the Ukrainian ZUS coup. That is the people that was used to gain control of Ukraine for ZUS.

    This coup in Ukraine, woke me up.

    V. Nuland’s war cry to bless the coup was “F–k The EU”

    She used Neonazis to take over Ukraine.

    Wait. She is Jewish. I guess the 6 million story must be bogus. She admitted it, since if the 6 million story was real. She would have a great fear of a tidal wave of anti-S’ism overcoming her and her people. She had no fear. Thus, the 6 million story was proved to be false by V. Nuland. Thanks V. Nuland for freeing the world of that nightmarish propaganda that has saddled humanity for seventy odd years.

    Secondly, she told the world the reality of J. Supremacism by stating ” F..k the EU”. The world thought that ZUS loved the EU as its sister in world domination. I guess not. Would V. Nuland ever say “F..k Israel”? I think not.

    Thanks V. Nuland. A new Queen Esther or Queen Victoria.

  45. Robjil says:
    @Tom Welsh

    Yes, ZUS ukraine is being run just like the rest of us in the west.

    The little people are considered “deplorable” and treated that way.

    At least, ZUS ukraine is not be over run by people fleeing ZUS wars and coups.

    I guess since ZUS ukraine is not in good shape for these fleeing people.

    ZUS ukraine is in the same shape as the nations that the fleeing people come from.

    So there is no reason for them to go to ZUS ukraine.

  46. GMC says:

    Yep, agree with Saker – I lived there before , during and now after the Maidan and he’s spot on with most of everything – he has been, since the beginning. Zelinsky has a dozen or more bosses and he has Zero experience in what he’s doing. . Zionist Bankers and their arms dealers, Nato, Banderas gang,Washington, US Navy, Monsanto/Bayer, Royal Dutch {shell oil }, Dupont, Lilly Pharma, Cargill, and the list could go on. He’ll be lucky if he isn’t in Diapers by the time his term is up, otherwise he will be rich. I see that Poroshanster is being called out for taking 8 billion bucks out of Ukie-Ville. I wonder how much Trump and his family will end up stealing?. Thanks Unz Review.

  47. Kiza says:
    @Beckow

    Thus Kiev got justa bout the worst possible combination on non-EU and deep hostility with Russia. Smarter guys would had handled it much better, playing both sides against each other – raising the stakes.

    As usual, you nailed it Beckow.
    Also, Saker often misunderstands things but he is right that Ukraine is in a one way street mainly because of the out-of-this-World miscalculation that the rotten West will somehow help them instead of use them to create a festering sore on Russian border for just a few billion dollars in loans. It is the rest of Ukraine, excluding Donbas, that will have to pay off these war loans already stolen by the oligarchs.

  48. PeterMX says:

    I’ll take the “Ukrainian (Galician) Nazi” thugs over the Jewish-Bolshevik thugs and their supporters like The Saker any day. After all, the Ukrainian “NAZIS” only organized after the Jews killed 8 million of them.

    The writer writes “The Ukrainian oligarchs are just like any other oligarchs: their loyalty is to their money and nothing else. If you want to characterize these oligarchs, you could think of them as culturally “post-Soviet” meaning that they don’t care about nationality, and even though their prime language is Russian, they don’t give a damn about Russia or Russians (or anybody else, for that matter!). Since many of them are Jews, they have a network of supporters/accomplices in Israel…” So the writer knows many are Jews and knows they have strong support in Israel, but he says they have no loyalty. Is The Saker Jewish himself? I wonder because the Bolshevik Revolution was led by Jews for Jews, and that they hated the Czar and accused him and his father of endless overblown stories of torture and murder is well known. Why does he think today’s oligarchs are not loyal to Jews and Israel first?

    Ukraine now has its second Jewish president in a row and until the first one, Ukraine had a policy of good relations with both Russia and the west. Since Jews have led Ukraine, Ukraine has been anti-Russian. Could the writer consider that Putin might be hated by many Jews because he supports Syria and strongly supports Christians? Has he heard of Max Boot, a Russian born American neo-con that hates Putin? This is not normal for a “Russian” because Boot has strongly supported many wars, and although I have met Russians that dislike or hate Putin, it would not be normal to add fuel to the anti-Russian fire that already exists in the US. If I am guilty of suspecting Jews of dual loyalty too much, then this writer is guilty of deliberately ignoring the distinct possibility of dual loyalty, a term created to describe some Jews behavior over the centuries.

  49. @Commentator Mike

    I recall that at the time of the Zionist coup (We do remember Ms Noodleman’s : “fuck the EU” don’t we?) Ukrainian Nazi’s were a leading force in kicking things off.

  50. Skeptikal says:
    @Mr. Hack

    “In Saker’s simplistic mind the Galicians have infiltrated all of Ukrainian society and run the whole show, ”

    This was not what I read.
    The Saker said that oligarchs and Nazi militia groups have enough power to impose their will and their agenda on the rest of the population.

    • Replies: @bluedog
  51. Skeptikal says:
    @PeterMX

    Hmm, to me “dual loyalty” looks like either no loyalty or loyalty to The Tribe.

    • Agree: MAOWASAYALI
  52. @Bardon Kaldian

    When I see words like “Nazis” in relation to Ukrainians, I know that article is sh!t & not worth reading.

    This is because you don’t know what Raguli(stan) is and you cannot possibly know, because there are no “books” written yet which would encapsulate this whole phenomenon. Of course, Ukies have no relation to Fichte and Volkskrieg. Other than that you will find an attentive audience among local ignoramuses.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  53. Durruti says:

    Misdirection from Saker:

    One example:

    (no, Russia has absolutely no need of any additional territories, especially devastated ones!)

    Thanks for that assurance, Apparently, the Zionist NATO/America and are willing to take it.

    Saker well knows that the Russian language, and as well as Orthodox Christianity are a cultural commonality between the overwhelming majority of the people of theUkraine and Russia. He mentions the language link in his article.

    The Ukrainian oligarchs are just like any other oligarchs: their loyalty is to their money and nothing else. If you want to characterize these oligarchs, you could think of them as culturally “post-Soviet” meaning that they don’t care about nationality, and even though their prime language is Russian,

    Saker, concludes: with a classic Defeatist (he surrenders to the New World Order) apology, as he carefully limits the options available to the Russian Nation – to reunite all their People.

    I personally don’t care what happens to these folks or to the lands which they historically inhabited. If the Austrians, the Poles, the Hungarians or the Germans want them – they are welcome to have them. After all, these are the folks who, along with the Papacy, created the Ukraine and the Ukronazi phenomenon. So, bien du plaisir!, as the French say: let them enjoy their offspring!
    If the people of some future rump-Ukraine are strong and wise enough to get rid of that Nazi rot – good for them, they can count on Russian help and support for reconstruction. But if they are not – then that’s their problem.

    I need not make this up. There it is. He, Saker, “personally don’t care what happens to the folks” – The truth stares us in the face.

    Russia must not reunite their People. They must not do it because the Ukraine is poor. Again:

    Russia simply cannot afford to pay by herself the immense bill for the eventual reconstruction of devastated Ukraine.

    There it is. Surrender 40 million of your Nation to the Zionist New World Order Oligarchs. Can’t afford the bill??? Say what! The Russian Nation cannot afford to not liberate their people. It is a Moral as well as vital goal for their survival as a Free People). It is Imperative, for Russia to liberate the Ukraine, Kazakstan, and a dozen other isolated corners of their Nation. Imperative, just as we Americans have the same Road to Freedom, the road of Unity of our People in a Restored Democratic Republic.

    The Ukraine was one of the most prosperous of the old Soviet Provinces, and it can be so again. It has been surrendered by Russia, and if Russia does not Liberate it, the Russian People will have suffered a defeat of great magnitude. The Ukraine with magnificent farmland, natural resources, and an ever suffering people, must not be abandoned, either in ‘analytical’ articles, or on our Planet Earth.

    God Bless America, Russia, France, all Nations. Republics of Liberty.

    Durruti

    • Replies: @bikeanarkist
  54. @PeterMX

    “Nations rise and fall, but the Jew is eternal”–old Yiddish proverb.

    “Dual loyalty” is an oxymoron for the Jew.

  55. @Durruti

    So far, the best comment I have read objectively stating consequences of Maidan.
    If the Austrians, the Poles, the Hungarians or the Germans want them – they are welcome to have them. After all, these are the folks who, along with the Papacy, created the Ukraine and the Ukronazi phenomenon. So, bien du plaisir!, as the French say: let them enjoy their offspring!

    “I need not make this up. There it is. He, Saker, “personally don’t care what happens to the folks” – The truth stares us in the face.

    Russia must not reunite their People. They must not do it because the Ukraine is poor. ”

    Russia is taking the only responsible stance at this point in time, considering ALL the other global provocations imposed by the I$A (Israeli States of America); that is, the EU and I$A and Ukie Oligarchs are the only ones responsible for the mess that has become Ukraine.

    Save a finger and let the body die, or remove a finger and let the body LIVE.

    • Agree: annamaria
  56. peterAUS says:
    @Commentator Mike

    I think it’s a fairly good analysis of the situation if you go beyond his propagandistic terminology and what he leaves unsaid.

    I don’t. He does not acknowledge genuine Ukrainian nationalists. Here, in his writing I mean.
    Kremlin does know them and has a realistic appreciation of them.
    This piece is simplistic to the bones even for the usual purpose.

    As for Kremlin doing this, Kremlin doing that,a question for you:
    Why that region hasn’t created its own respectable armed force?

    Simple question those in the know are so well aware of.

    As for

    ….t’s about time they took back Formosa…

    a man I know here and spoke with frequently, a fierce Taiwanese nationalist, could tell you a thing or two about that.

  57. @peterAUS

    Typical peterAUS: when monosyllabic replies and snide bullshitism don’t work and substantial answers are asked for – he passes…

    Why don’t you enlighten us about genuine Ukie Nats?

  58. Adûnâi says:
    @Commentator Mike

    Russia really doesn’t want to engage directly in the conflict but its best policy would be to bide its time and to encourage more pro-Russian separatism in Odessa and all other regions along the coast so as to eventually cut off Ukraine from access to the sea altogether.

    Didn’t that ship sail long ago? Isn’t the Novorussia now the most Russophobic in all its history? Isn’t the Ukrainian language successfully spreading eastwards and southwards? Hasn’t Dniepropetrovsk been renamed to a river (an objectively ugly and lowly act worthy of the cattle folk)? Aren’t the martyrs of Odessa all but forgotten?

    Russia’s anti-LGBT rhetoric is not enough to sway Ruthenians. And there are quite a lot of anti-LGBT men in Bialystok and Chestohowa, as it turns out.

  59. peterAUS says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Hehehe…..now, I don’t think the author is mentally deranged. Not really.

    My take: he’s a smooth operator (for the targeted audience. that is) who found his online gig.
    Agree with your assessment re the majority of that audience, though.

  60. @Korenchkin

    Not just Israel, it’s obvious beyond denial that Jews are not antithetical to Nazi ideology, but with their own Volk and own totalitarianism, currently branded as globo-homo-shlomo.

  61. Adûnâi says:
    @PeterMX

    I’ll take the “Ukrainian (Galician) Nazi” thugs over the Jewish-Bolshevik thugs and their supporters like The Saker any day. After all, the Ukrainian “NAZIS” only organized after the Jews killed 8 million of them.

    First, the Judeo-Bolsheviks killed a few gorillion Ukrainians, then they made them reach the highest population size in all their history (53 mil. in 1993)? Don’t you see the joke? How could Bolsheviks be that anti-Ukrainian if it’s after the fall of the USSR that Ukrainians started dying off and emigrating (<43 mil.)?

    I do believe that the fate of Ukraine would have been brighter under the Hitlerite regime from the 1940s. Effective eugenic policies, ethnic cleansing of the degenerate, the revival and multiplication of the best stock. But that ship sailed likewise.

    The best argument against Stalinism would be granting women the rights to own property and attain education. But I literally never see it expressed!

    There are no Nazis in Ukraine. Even the survivors of the SS Galizien became fairly boring citizens of Australia and Canada, sometimes whining against the ADL/SPLC and writing teary memoirs about their "fight for independence". For some reason, nothing of that worked out at all.

    • Replies: @PeterMX
  62. Durruti says:

    Russia is taking the only responsible stance at this point in time, considering ALL the other global provocations imposed by the I$A (Israeli States of America);

    Response to “provocations”? Was the Ukraine -Provoked? The invasion of Russia by Germany was not a provocation. The occupation of the Ukraine by the Zionist puppet Americans was not a provocation. The rape of young girls/women by Agent Epstein was not a provocation.

    All the above are assaults. Thousands of Russians from the Ukraine have died, and millions have been dislocated, (left their homes for Russia and other locations).

    Who are responsible for the “mess” is clear. Unfortunately, this is much more than a mess.

    We are discussing resistance or acquiescence to assaults. We have different views concerning these assaults; but let us not label them “provocations,” which these crimes are vast magnitudes beyond.

    Your intended point,

    Save a finger and let the body die, or remove a finger and let the body LIVE.

    is quite unclear. Are you discussing sex? Remove the finger from where? Is the “finger” a metaphor for something else?

    Benny Hill asked – and I paraphrase -just what he met her for?

  63. @Mulegino1

    I completely agree with your comment. However, even as stooges of Atlanticism, anti-Russian Ukrainians do seem to have strong Nazi roots/ideology.

    Ideological terms are topsy-turvy indeed these days, but how is that unusual?

    • Replies: @Mulegino1
  64. Beckow says:
    @Kiza

    …miscalculation that the rotten West will help them instead of use them to create a festering sore on Russian border for just a few billion dollars in loans.

    A possibly a fatal miscalculation for Ukraine, but there is also an ideology involved. In Maidan-Ukrainians case that ideology is Ukrainian nationalism combined with a servile Western worship of almost cargo-cult level. An odd combination that has led to odd result.

    West wanted Zelensky to win, the question is why. Tactically, Zelensky neutralized large Russia-leaning block of voters: the 70% vote would have gone somewhere and they were not going to vote for Poroshenko or Tymoshenko. So that misdirection was successful. But what was the point? Let’s look at what Zelensky is actually doing (not the throw-away comedy and rhetoric): he is trying to allow sale of Ukrainian land to foreign investors. My guess is that he will push it through and that will his main legacy. Buying up Ukrainian arable land has been a wet dream for many in the West since 1991. Zelensky could deliver on it, and then move on.

    In 3-5 years we could have an interesting scenario in Ukraine with land (its main wealth) owned by foreign investors and a large % of population with Russian or Polish and other EU passports. As always with ideology, the result is the exact opposite of what that ideology claims: the dictatorship of proletariat impoverished and killed proletariat, Nazis dramatically shrunk German lebensraum, liberals obsession with ‘liberty and universal brotherhood‘ is leading to censorship, suppression and group hostilities. But here we are and the ideological idiocy that Maidan-Ukrainians embraced might not be reversible. This is not good for anybody.

    • Agree: Robjil
    • Replies: @annamaria
  65. @Kent Nationalist

    +1. This is not one of Saker’s better efforts. If he can’t be bothered to come up with a decent attempt at misdirection, he shouldn’t even try.

  66. Anon[424] • Disclaimer says:

    Zelensky speaks russian , his ucranian is very poor as he has shown repeatedly in ucranian TV .

    Last week one of Poroshenko sons was in ucranian TV , he also showed that his ucranian is very very poor and that he is a russian speaker .

    ( maybe they think in english ? )

  67. @Kiza

    What you say here also applies to Poland.

  68. Why does the Saker think that Ze had any choice? He is a puppet, a stuffed shirt brought to ”power” by Kolomoisky and allied oligarchs. The only goal was to chase Porky and allied thieves from the trough to be able to steal more.

    Now, the people of Ukraine had choice. But they blew it again, like many times before: each Ukrainian “president” is worse than his predecessor. As the saying goes, “fool me once, shame on you…” Ukrainians let themselves be fooled six times already, so there is no doubt where the shame goes.

    It was said that the nationalism is the last resort of a scoundrel. But it isn’t the only one. Nationalism, stupid unrealistic dreams to feed sheeple, fairy tales about aggression, and the war create perfect smokescreen for blatant thievery. It continues unabated, ever since 1991.

    Russia does need to make its choice. But it is complicated by the role of Russian thieves (polite word is oligarchs) in current Russian state. Putin kicked some out. The remaining ones have enough brains to figure that they need a strong state to protect them, lest their loot be stolen by Western thieves. So, they are a step ahead of Ukrainian thieves who did not tumble even to this simple realization. But no more than one step ahead.

    The economic reality is that Russian state does not have the resources to restore Ukraine, even if sane forces come to power there. So, Ukraine would likely keep festering, losing millions of working age people (like today), possibly losing chunks of territory (as the joke has it, whoever remains in Ukraine pays off the debt). The problems of that huge Somalia can only be solved by concerted effort of many European countries and Russia. This is not on the cards, at least not until Ukies create yet another Chernobyl. Then the EU might decide to send its US overlords to Hell and pay Russia to take the hand grenade away from the monkey. I don’t think Putin will live long enough to see that happen.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    , @Andrei Martyanov
  69. @Korenchkin

    what kind of Nazi Government has a Jewish PM and Jewish President ?

    Simple answer is Israel.

  70. @Beckow

    Minsk agreement was an incredibly generous deal, if Poroshenko had half a brain he would had jumped on it and today Donbas would be a remote backwater with autonomy.

    That would be true if Porky was interested in Ukraine. As it is, his only interest and loyalty was and is his personal loot. To keep stealing, he (and allied thieves) needed the smokescreen of war, fairy tales of “aggression”, and pipe dreams of “greater Ukraine” for the sheeple. He succeeded in his thievery for five years. Now another gang of thieves pushed his gang from the trough. End of story.

    • Replies: @yurivku
  71. @Andrei Martyanov

    Ukrainians are a people; any people, sooner or later, wants to be a master of his destiny & if being in a communion with other peoples who have tried to put this people under control, there are times when this tutorship inevitably breaks & the closer the peoples, stronger the hatred.

    Certainly, corruption, chaos, oligarchs,….have played a big deal in current Ukraianian situation. But, that’s their problem.

    (Dys)functionality of Ukraine, of Chechnya, of any country is a part of a painful growing process. But this process cannot be reversed. He who thinks otherwise is delusional.

  72. Beckow says:
    @AnonFromTN

    …EU might decide to send its US overlords to Hell and pay Russia to take the hand grenade away from the monkey.

    How would EU go against its overlord? Even if EU would try, the existential nihilism in Kiev will prevent compromise. Ideologues can’t admit that their ‘idea’ didn’t work, they prefer destroying everything around. West is also at this point incapable of admitting an error – they literally can’t do it, the lying has to go on. That means that even groundwork for any possible compromise can’t be put in place. This is all the way down with fireworks and it won’t be pretty.

    There is such a thing as a catastrophic error and the last 5 years in Ukraine comes pretty close to it. That is not really fixable. The monkey night as well use the grenade.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  73. annamaria says:
    @Mr. Hack

    “The Galicians (and Ukro-Nazi Jews) are behind everything”

    — “Mr. Hack” and Mr. “Marcus” protest too much. Perhaps they suffer from some memory lapses.

    Q. What is the name of certain cooky-distributor during the Kievan coup d’etat and to what clan does she belong?
    Answer: to the Kagans

    Q. Who has been in charge of the NED, this acknowledged school for regime-change operatives?
    Answer: Carl Gershman (no doubt, from a family of “holohoax survivors”)

    Q. Who has been arming the Baderites with Israel-made rifles?
    Answer: The Jewish State: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0txqZUjAp3s

    Q. In what other state but Israel both Prez and Prime-minister are Jewish? Take note, that in both states there are ongoing wars against the “bad” population

    • Agree: Robjil
  74. @Bardon Kaldian

    Hm, I didn’t argue with Ukraine happening as a political nation–in fact, I always stress this that she did. My issue was with you stating that there was no Nazism in Ukraine. You obviously missed my sarcasm about Fichte and Volkskrieg. To understand that one should know the term Raguli which describes perfectly current Ukrainian reality which is also remarkably reminiscent of a what one brilliant character of 17 Instances of Spring describes as a “dictatorship of small shop-keepers”. Raguli are Ukraine’s “small shop-keepers”.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  75. @AnonFromTN

    The economic reality is that Russian state does not have the resources to restore Ukraine, even if sane forces come to power there.

    Russia has those resources, but this time it is majority of Russia’s peoples who do not want to have much in common with Ukraine. This is a major turn in all this almost 30 years of Ukrainian svidomism–liberation of Russia from delusions of “brotherly relations”. Plus, Russia needs those resources for frying of a much, much bigger fish than Ukraine or even Europe.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @Durruti
  76. annamaria says:
    @Mike-SMO

    “the “Kulaks” who were murdered by the (Russian) Bolshevik NKVD”

    — The Ukranian NKVD was 80% Jewish.
    https://www.ihr.org/jhr/v14/v14n1p-4_Weber.html

    In his 1920 book, British veteran journalist Robert Wilton offered a similarly harsh assessment:
    “The whole record of Bolshevism in Russia is indelibly impressed with the stamp of alien invasion. The murder of the Tsar, deliberately planned by the Jew Sverdlov (who came to Russia as a paid agent of Germany) and carried out by the Jews Goloshchekin, Syromolotov, Safarov, Voikov and Yurovsky, is the act not of the Russian people, but of this hostile invader.”

    https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3342999,00.html

    An Israeli student finishes high school without ever hearing the name “Genrikh Yagoda,” the greatest Jewish murderer of the 20th century, the GPU’s deputy commander and the founder and commander of the NKVD. Yagoda diligently implemented Stalin’s collectivization orders and is responsible for the deaths of at least 10 million people. His Jewish deputies established and managed the Gulag system.

    https://justice4poland.com/2017/03/23/lazar-kaganovich-the-chief-of-stalins-willing-executioners-implications-for-holodomor-the-great-terror-and-katyn-massacre/

    Lazar Kaganovich was the most prominent Jew in Soviet public life and … indispensable to Stalin in the 1930-s. … Kaganovich, as general secretary of the Ukrainian Communist Party, was a forthright exponent of forcible grain seizure. … He facilitated the mass deportation of the kulaks and played a key role in the expulsion of Kuban peasants in 1932. In the years of famine, he was the most vocal supporter of Stalin’s draconian law…

    • Replies: @PeterMX
  77. annamaria says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Are you a teenager unaware of the history of the Maidan regime-change “revolution?”
    Here are two most uinfluential Ukranian parties-participants in the “revolution:”
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_(political_party)

    The Svoboda Party was founded in 1991 as the Social-National Party of Ukraine … It is widely considered a fascist..party….

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Sector

    Time has described it [the Right Sector Party] as a “radical right-wing group … a coalition of militant ultra-nationalists” with an ideology that “borders on fascism”.

    Die Welt, The New York Times, and Le Monde Diplomatique have described some of Right Sector’s constituent groups as radical right-wing, neofascist, or neo-Nazi…

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/conspiring-neo-nazi-parties-washington-eu-role-kiev-coup/5684545

  78. @Beckow

    You are a pessimist (or a fatalist). I agree that EU is shamefully subservient to the US, but when some of their core interests are at stake, even slavish EU can show some teeth. Just think of Nord Stream-2: the US is jumping out of its skin to damage this project, but Germany stands remarkably firm.

    From Western point of view, Ukie provocation was not a complete failure (even though it’s a catastrophic failure from Ukrainian point of view): Russia had to spend a lot to develop the production of military things it used to import from Ukraine, like ships, ship engines, helicopter engines, spaceship control systems, etc. Now that it acquired the capability to produce these things, there will be no going back regardless who rules Ukraine: it’s industries that used to export to Russia are doomed. These include such giants as Nikolaev shipbuilding plant, Motor Sich in Zaparozie, Antonov aircraft building plant in Kiev, etc. The same goes for transit. It is not just natural gas transit everybody talks about. Russia used to transport ammonia to Odessa, where it was partially exported and partially converted into fertilizers. The plant that used to do that is dead. Ukraine tried to sell it for $5 billion under Yanuk and got no takers, about a year ago it tried to sell it for 10% of that price, and got no takers again. There also used to be substantial Russian payments for transport via the railway going across Eastern Ukraine. Russia built an alternative bypassing Ukraine, so they might as well dismantle the rails on their route. For Ukraine these are all irreversible losses, but from Western perspective, these are little victories: Russia was forced to spend more. As the West does not give a hoot about Ukraine, the US and its vassals can freely celebrate these victories.

    So, it all depends on the point of view. The West never cared about aborigines, so their point of view does not come into its calculations.

    • Replies: @Beckow
  79. Currently the action is 5,000 miles away in Hong Kong.

    US would love to jump into another revolution.
    Let’s see how badly we can mess things up for the people of Hong Kong.

    According to McCain, we are all Georgians now.
    To Biden, all Ukies now.
    To Pelosi, all Hong Kongians now.

    According to Cuckatoo the Great, who knows?

    Not sure it’s gonna be alright.

  80. PeterMX says:
    @Adûnâi

    Just keep repeating your lies and exaggerations, soap from fat, lampshades from skin and everything else. It’s worked so far. That millions of Ukrainians and others were murdered in the 1930’s is not contested. It’s the Jews that are constantly having their fairytales of suffering exposed. The holocaust looks like a conspiracy theory to many now and only the threat of imprisonment in Europe keeps the lid on the lies.

  81. @Andrei Martyanov

    That’s true, when it comes to resources, there are always alternatives how to spend them. Currently prevailing mood in Russia is that Ukraine, whoever is the power there, gets nothing, nada, zilch. Considering how closely Ukrainians are related to Russians, this feat wasn’t easy. But Ukrainian authorities worked pretty hard to achieve it, and now Ukraine has to live with this new reality. It won’t be pretty. The US was simply following its standard policy: leave a pile of shit, declare victory, and leave, waiting for someone else to clean up. Now there is only one way Russia would clean up: if the EU pays full price for it. As this is unlikely, the aborigines are going to bear the brunt of the consequences.

    • Replies: @Avery
    , @Andrei Martyanov
  82. PeterMX says:
    @annamaria

    During wartime you have immediate problems to deal with that might make you do things you would prefer not doing in order to avoid catastrophe and losing the war. Germany was fighting Russia in the east, and France and Great Britain in the west, later to be joined by the US. They had to complete their victory over Russia so they could then concentrate on fighting in the west, so they used the communists to create upheaval in Russia (like Israel and their American lackeys bring ISIS in to destroy Syria today). Everyone does such things. The Czar and the Kaiser were cousins. Neither one wanted the other killed.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  83. @PeterMX

    Valid points, except unlike the Jewish/Russian communists Imperial Germany shipped in, ISIS are completely Company employees, a Mossad-CIA mercenary army.

  84. Jake says:
    @Korenchkin

    “what kind of Nazi Government has a Jewish PM and Jewish President ?”

    Israel fits the bill. Israel is all about National Socialism for a race that sees itself as inherently superior.

  85. Avery says:
    @AnonFromTN

    { Considering how closely Ukrainians are related to Russians, this feat wasn’t easy.}

    Even close relatives in a (nuclear) family eventually walk away from some members who are constant deadbeats and/or are constantly causing trouble for the family. And of course, in extreme cases – as in civil war – same ethnos kill each other.

    So in the case of Russia _not_ helping Ukraine would not have been so hard, considering. (….in this non-Russian’s opinion). Still, it is unfortunate that two Slavic peoples are not one united block against the Globalist anti-Christian Neocon reptiles.

    • Replies: @yurivku
    , @AnonFromTN
  86. @Bardon Kaldian

    That depends. The various peoples that make up the fictive “Swiss” seem to do well without those aspirations.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  87. Beckow says:
    @AnonFromTN

    …Ukie provocation was not a complete failure…The West never cared about aborigines

    I am sure some Western geo-strategists say that enough has been accomplished, they are particularly happy about what they hope will be deep hostility between Ukraine and Russia. But they achieved these small victories at a cost of devastating Ukraine – sooner or later this will be the dominant factor and the blowback will be ugly. Using people – even if they were almost begging sometimes to be used – is a bad strategy. One day they will look back and the disillusionment with the West will be traumatic.

    This wasn’t thought through by either the West or the Maidan-Ukrainians. One went into it with a blase ignorance of the realities on he ground, the other with some adolescent silly yearnings about living somewhere else (being someone else). As they sober up, the small victories will seem smaller and quite silly, but the permanent damage will loom ever larger. This was a f…up, there is no other way to describe the Porky years.

    • Replies: @yurivku
    , @AnonFromTN
  88. Truth3 says:

    Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi.

    Nazi Nazi.

    Nazi Nazi Nazi.

    The above is a sample of the so-called Saker’s writing.

    Faker, not Saker.

    • Replies: @annamaria
    , @AnonFromTN
  89. yurivku says:
    @AnonFromTN

    That would be true if Porky was interested in Ukraine. As it is, his only interest and loyalty was and is his personal loot.

    That’s true, but not only. Nobody, including Porky and Ze, can give the autonomy to Donbas. Nazi, the only driving force in contemporary UKi, won’t allow. The US puppeteers also need a chaos there. Aftewards now it’s absolutely impossible for Donbas to go into UKi in any conditions. Too many deaths lie between those two.
    So it’s zugzwang, but time is working against UKi, the rot is getting more and more of it.

  90. @Commentator Mike

    Swiss are not a people; they are a country comprised of 3 peoples (not counting Romanch) who have consented, over long period of history, to live together.They live in ethnically pure, more or less, cantons & only because their central nation (Germans, French, Italians) does exist in separate nation-state, they have chosen to live in a separate country. There is no need for all Germans to live in one country; but, if there is a people, this people wants a country of their own.

  91. yurivku says:
    @Avery

    Still, it is unfortunate that two Slavic peoples are not one united block against the Globalist anti-Christian Neocon reptiles.

    Yes, it’s sad. But nothing new it is. Recall bulgarians, poles, croats (despite they are pretending not be slavs), czhechs even slovaks. Yes, it’s a great deal of EU/US helping that, but not only. Some of them always were bastards remembering no good. Russia lost millions of lives saving those from turks, germans etc. Now it’s a time to stop it.

  92. yurivku says:
    @Beckow

    This was a f…up, there is no other way to describe the Porky years.

    Can you find somebody better in new UKi’s history?
    Every new one is worse than all his predesessors. Same will be with Ze. The direction of UKi development is right down with increasing acceleration.

    Actually nobody can change it now, not from inside of UKi nor from outside of it. Trump can’t change nothing, same to his europeans vassals. Now physical and history laws rule the ball.

  93. annamaria says:
    @Beckow

    “Let’s look at what Zelensky is actually doing… he is trying to allow sale of Ukrainian land to foreign investors. My guess is that he will push it through and that will his main legacy. Buying up Ukrainian arable land has been a wet dream for many in the West since 1991. Zelensky could deliver on it, and then move on.”

    — Agree. A nice synopsis. Note that the 6-million canard does not weaken the hasbarists-in-residence (“AP,” “peterAUS,” et al) appreciation for the Banderite flavor of the current zionized government of Ukraine. The same perennial lack of shame. The Jewish State has been supporting both “moderate terrorists” of ISIS in Syria and self-proclaimed neo-Nazi in Ukraine. Epsteins forever.

  94. annamaria says:
    @Truth3

    Relax. Here is a sample of the essential Jewish State:

  95. @AnonFromTN

    As this is unlikely, the aborigines are going to bear the brunt of the consequences.

    Exactly. More importantly, overwhelming majority of Russians do not care anymore. Those Ukrainians who consider themselves Russian (very many of them) have already moved to Russia or are in process of moving, some even took their whole two regions with them (LDNR)–the rest should continue to seek their European “future”.

  96. @Avery

    I guess it’s unfortunate, but globo-homo via Empire succeeded in fooling Ukrainians. Now it’s only natural that the other family members are ashamed of the retards. Cannot be helped now.

  97. @Beckow

    It was a major screw-up for Ukrainians, but as they largely fooled themselves (with a little prodding from globo-homo), it is hard to commiserate with them.

    As to the West, you have to distinguish the Empire and the EU. The Empire is as far from Ukraine as it is from Afghanistan, Iraq, Lybia, Syria, or Serbia. So, from the imperial perspective, there is no harm in leaving a pile of shit to inconvenience others, as long as it’s very far from your own door. Besides, I strongly suspect that the Empire wanted to kill two birds with one stone: hurt both Russia and the EU. It achieved both goals. The EU is another story. It’s “leadership” (basically, pathetic imperial puppets) has been acting against best interests of Europeans for a long time now. Europe lost a lot, and got a huge problem right on its doorstep. So, if saner people come to power in Europe (unlikely, but possible), they would see that cooperation with Russia in the cleanup is in the best interests of the EU. Otherwise, Ukraine will fester for decades, stinking out both Russia and Europeans, with the Empire smugly far away.

    • Replies: @annamaria
    , @Beckow
  98. @Andrei Martyanov

    I’d disagree. The best English equivalent of “Raguli” is hillbillies. The streets in Ukraine are ruled by dumb uncouth hillbillies, who are useful idiots of mega-thieves robbing Ukraine blind.

    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
  99. Beckow says:
    @AnonFromTN

    …Europe lost a lot, and got a huge problem right on its doorstep.

    Yes, Europe as a whole. But many in EU have benefited: Polish and Baltic nationalists got their relevancy (it comes with funding), cold-war-intellectual industry in London-Munich got a boost (it comes with funding), and now there is this once in a century opportunity to repossess assets in Ukraine (mainly arable land) – it will be a feast.

    I have mixed feelings about Ukrainians themselves: a more naive and gullible ethnic hasn’t been seen since Indians sold Manhattan for a few shiny beads. (I am sure the Indian kiddies among them were also quite thrilled with their new toys.)

    On the other hand, most Ukrainians did not participate in any of it – at least half of Ze’s support, all the ‘opposition’ parties, plus the millions of disengaged, it is very likely that at least half of Ukrainians were skeptical about the Maidan ‘we are moving to Europe‘ nonsense. It was very rationally explained in 2014-15 that a sudden break with Russia, and uncertain promises from EU, simply meant that Ukraine will get a lot poorer and isolated. It wasn’t rocket science, but simple math.

    So fester they will, EU is no position either politically or economically to help with enough aid, Russians have been successfully antagonised. That leaves the repo man.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  100. @Truth3

    You are right, those Ukies are wanna be Nazis, nothing more. Calling them Nazis is offensive to the real Nazis. First and foremost, Ukies are inept, disorganized, drunk (or under the influence of drugs), stupid, and venal. Nazis were competent, organized, sober, reasonably intelligent, and mostly honest. The only thing that unites Ukies with Nazis is the idea “my tribe is better than your tribe”. They had the gall to appropriate some Nazi symbols, such as Wolfsangel and the Black Sun used by Azov battalion. Nazis should sue those untermensch for defamation.

  101. @Beckow

    Only a total idiot would pay real money for land in Ukraine, or anything else there, for that matter. At least his/her own money. I guess EU bureaucrats will issue guaranties, so the ultimate losers would be European taxpayers.

    Yes, some scum got funding, again, at the expense of European taxpayers. As an American saying puts it, “a sucker is born every minute”. The actions of Europe after 2014 convinced me that Europe is a spent force, Europeans have no future. Maybe Eastern Europe manages to disengage itself from that sinking ship.

    I don’t envy the repo man, either. There is a joke in Ukraine that stealing is patriotic: “Putin will come and find that everything is already stolen”. That describes post-Maidan Ukraine better than anything.

    • Replies: @Anon
  102. @AnonFromTN

    who are useful idiots of mega-thieves robbing Ukraine blind.

    Who do you think those are? Melkie Lavochniki (small shop-keepers) or lower ranks who stole officer boots (nizhnii chin vykravshyi ofitzerskie sapogi)–a distinction without the difference: a lower class (Volks) who decided that it has answers. You may as well recall, then, good ol’ Russian bydlo. Also applies fully. You can take a person from village, you not always can take a village from person.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  103. Anon[424] • Disclaimer says:
    @AnonFromTN

    I agree that the EU has no future . The admission in the EU of the aprox 100 million of ex-soviets from Poland to Bulgaria , baltics , rumanians , hungarians , etc…. that nobody in the classic EU demanded or wanted , has been the ruin of the EU , plus the hordes of economic invaders from Asia and Africa . Impossible to subvention so many people .

    One of the main battle cries in England in the brexit referendum was the hostility towards the polish , because they lowered the salaries in England . And the stupid ukraruinas wanted to join the EU and suck EU money , with nearly 50 million people !!!, hahahaha , too late bums , you did not see that the EU was already broke ! , really slow the ukros , go suck the blood of your US masters , he russian oleoducts are dry .

    • Replies: @Beckow
  104. @Andrei Martyanov

    Well, bydło is originally a Polish word (with a proto-slavic root) Poles used to describe cattle and Ukrainians. BTW, American saying is “You can take the boy out the hood but you can’t take the hood out the boy”. Same difference, though, as my American graduate student used to say.

    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
  105. Pandour says: • Website

    What a load of historically illiterate bunk.For one,pray tell,how was the Croatian Operation Storm in 1995.backed by NATO.The Operation was part of the Croatian war for independence.Serb insurgents with the aid of the thoroughly Serbianized so-call JNA-jugo army occupied nearly one-third of Croatia and ethnically cleansed it killing thousand and expelling hundreds of thousands.The international community did everything to appease the Serbs and formulated the Z-4 plan which would have given the Serb-majority areas in Croatia substantial albeit unwarranted autonomy.The Serbs refused to receive,let alone,accept the plan.The Operation was a strategic game-changer in Bosnia as well and saved Bihać from an even worst fate than Srebrenica.The Croat drive was stopped several km from Banja Luka because the U.S. threatened to bomb Croat forces deeming that if the criminal Serbian entity there fell,it would have drawn Serbia into the war and caused a refugee crisis.THE BOTTOM LINE IS THIS-Serbian imperialism,colonization,plunder and mass murder from 1912. to 1990.,not counting the wars 1991. onward was responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Croats,Albanians,Bosnian Muslims,Montenegrins,Macedonians and members of the German and Hungarian minority.In both royalist and communist Yugoslavia-a more accurate name would be Srboslavija-the Serbs were the ruling and priviliged nation and ruled the country with the help of the army and police.Serbia is the quintessential example of the old maxim-Tyrannies do not improve,they perish.Its beyond belief that any literate individual today can back Serb actions from 1991. onward.I realize most people have had a belly-full of the Serb-Croat issue,probably the Unz admin too,but OUTRIGHT INJUSTICES,DOCUMENTED BEYOND A DOUBT should not be tolerated and ignorance should not be allowed to stand.

  106. @Pandour

    I believe I speak for many when I say that we are really tired of your tribalism.
    Serbs and Croats are European equivalent of Hutus and Tutsis.
    Shame.

  107. @Pandour

    Pandour,

    And the absolute dictator for life of post-war Yugoslavia who ruled with an iron first, Marshall Tito, was a Croat and not a Serb, so how was that country Serb dominated? Serbs claim the opposite, that communist Yugoslavia actually favoured Croats and Slovenes. As to the present, I haven’t heard that Serb nationalists go around Belgrade with hammers in hand smashing anything and everything written in the Latin script, unlike Croatians do to signposts in Cyrillic, and no need to wonder how other Serbs, or the authorities, would respond if there were such expressions of fanatical hatred and intolerance as is commonplace in Croatia. You bring up Srebrenica but forget to mention Jasenovac, the high point of Croat civilised behaviour, which even shocked the Nazi inspectors with its crudity, barbarity, and the unsophisticated manner in which that extermination camp was operated.

    If you’re unfamiliar with Croatian crimes during WWII there’s a book you can read The Vatican’s Holocaust by Avro Manhattan

    http://www.reformation.org/holocaus.html

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Pandour
  108. Beckow says:
    @Anon

    …The admission in the EU of the aprox 100 million of ex-soviets from Poland to Bulgaria , baltics , rumanians , hungarians , etc…. that nobody in the classic EU demanded or wanted , has been the ruin of the EU , plus the hordes of economic invaders from Asia and Africa

    Well, those two things are largely in conflict with each other, the Eastern Europeans make EU more ‘European‘, the migrants a lot less so. Both are very expensive, but does EU want to be a ‘Europe’ or not?

    Looking forward, given the new realities and Brexit, the subsidies will have to be reduced. The Western core of EU has ceased being recognisably European. And EU has failed to establish a true money-machine the way US has the dollar, a magic ‘reserve’ currency.

    The globalists have not been defeated – far from it – but they lost the ability to push their agenda. We are looking at a stalemate: no money, no expansion, no changes. And a slow demographic ‘transition’ in most of Western Europe. Ukraine needs money and EU expansion – that was at the heart of their uprising of dreams in 2014. If Kiev’s adolescent yearning is not reciprocated, I suspect a hard landing, maybe more drugs, a new bad boyfriend (Turkey? China? Izrael?), and going silent out of embarrassment. We might not have AP and Hack around much longer to tell us about the wonders of the call centers and Habsburg cafes in Lviv. Too bad, I was thinking about visiting the new magical land of post-Maidan bliss.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @AP
  109. peterAUS says:
    @Commentator Mike

    Brace yourself.
    Good luck.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  110. Durruti says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    “Russia needs those resources for the frying of a much much bigger fish”

    The Russian Nation

    The Sad History

    1. loses 90% of the Ukraine (30-40 million souls),& declares Victory (we didn’t want it anyway – it is expensive).

    2. loses Kazakstan, 20 million more souls (with an American/Zionist military base for supplying their imperialist assault into Afghanistan). Kazakstan is independent (Russian is the major language spoken) – ‘we don’t want it’ (the Rothschilds & their American puppets would disapprove).

    3. loses land contact with Kalingrad (what can possibly go wrong)? The Baltic Principalities repress the Russian culture/language and allow NATO/US military in with weapons pointing East.

    4. Sweden joins NATO (you heard me), & Finland is 3 feet behind.

    5. Russian tanks were rolling through Tbilisi (Georgia), but withdrew. We don’t want that either.
    Let NATO have it.

    5. Turkey shoots a Russian plane down. Whew! Thank God it was only 1. German Historians are
    asking, -how did we lose the war?

    6. The Entity attacks Syria & a Russian Plane is shot down in the confusion of the attack. Whew! hope Netenyahoo, Ehud Barak, Rothschilds, and Epstein don’t accuse Putin of being an anti-something!!!

    7. The courageous Militia and civilians of Novo Rossiya are under constant bombardment. Their militia are forbidden to return fire (you heard me).

    8. Rumor is that Russian weapons look good, but do not fire.

    9. Thank goodness the Pro Zionist Oligarch’s-5th Column Traitors do not control Russia!!!

    10. Thank goodness the Russians did not force the Iranians to wait more than 20 years to deliver the S-300 Air Defense that the Iranians had already paid for.

    11. Feel free to continue the list of Russian ‘Victories.’

    The better history:

    1. Russian aid has been vital to Syria’s survival.

    2. Russia’s slow economic recovery from WW II is superior to a slow decline. BUT DO NOT
    FACTOR IN THE LOSS IN 1990 OF 25% OF ITS PEOPLE AND LAND AND WEALTH.

    3. Russia does not torture anyone in Guantanamo.

    4. Russia has not threatened to blockade Venezuela.

    5. Vladimir Putin was not a guest at Epstein’s Pleasure Island, or NYC Pleasure
    Palace. This is guess, as I have not been able to contact Epstein, or Ms. Maxwell to ask
    them.

    6. Putin knows the locations of Austria and Australia.

    7. Russia has good relations with China.

    8. Finally!! Russia’s last Victory!! Russians got Casino Trump elected. Yihaa!!!

    Victories are Victories and Defeats are Defeats.

    God Bless America & Russia & most everyone else.

    Durruti

    • Replies: @yurivku
  111. @AnonFromTN

    Well, bydło is originally a Polish word (with a proto-slavic root) Poles used to describe cattle and Ukrainians.

    I know, but it surely found its place in Russian language. In the same time, looking at current Western “elites” one inevitably wonders what kind of human material those are. At least cattle do not lie.

  112. @peterAUS

    Peter,

    He, he. Just stirring the pot.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  113. peterAUS says:
    @Commentator Mike

    That’s …….peculiar………….pot, to say the least. A rabbit hole. As “….if you stare into the abyss…” thing. Or Konrad. Or Kurtz. Or….whatever.

    Only once I read a short book which took a long and hard look at it. Now….hehehe…caveat: written by a Serb so….anyway.

    That’s about that particular strain of human capability to deliver death to the “other”.

    The handle Pandour doesn’t strike me as that type. He’s proper Croat nationalist, I guess.
    Plenty of the same in “your” forums where Protestants and Catholics “chat” about Northern Ireland.
    Speaking of which, I guess you are aware of a case or two of Irish, playing on the side of Croats there in the latest games. Not at the level of those you mentioned, of course. Those were……..special…is the word I’d use to describe them.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  114. For those who can read Russian, former Ukrainian MP Zhuravko published a lot of info about the crimes of Ukrainian military in Donbass here: http://antifashist.com/item/aleksej-zhuravko.html
    Note that they are way below Nazis, just bandits, drunkards, junkies, thieves, and rapists. I repeat: Nazis should sue this lowly scum for appropriating Nazi symbols.

  115. Anon[424] • Disclaimer says:
    @Beckow

    …..but does EU want to be a ‘Europe’ or not? ……

    I don`t know what the people in power want , but my personal opinion as an insignificant citizen of an european country is no .

    I would want an European Community based in the historical important nations of western
    Europe , France , Germany , Italy , England , Spain , Benelux , with Portugal , Greece .. that for centuries have had and intense relation , commercial cultural , rivalities , even horrible wars etc.. but that despite of everythig the people of these nations have many links . I believe that this type of European Community could have worked .

    This western European communtity should have good relations with the remaining big country of Europe Russia , and with all the remaining pseudocountries , minicountries and psychocountries of Europe ,why not . But I don`t care for the baltics , hungarians , polish , bulgars ,rumanian and so on . As you know there are bands of thieves from easter european countries all over Europe . I hate to see a cuota Letonian , bulgarian , slovak etc… commisar in the UE who knows nothing about the history of western Europe , only speak his useless native language and a poor english difficult to follow , I can not identify with them . I can not Identify with a large Europa .

    Ucrania ? as a province of Russia she would adquire russian respectabilty , russian culture . But as a psychocountry , as an asylum of lunatics I don`t have the least interest in Ucrania , they can go to hell , they are eurotraitors .

    A spanish historian , Luis Suarez , has a book that says that modern Europe was created by 6 great nations , 5 in the west Germany, France , Italy , Spain , England , and one in the east Russia , the rest of nations are satelites , are secundary tribes , sometimes insignificant tribes , they shoud stay in their place .

    If the whole EU falls we will always have France , Italy ,Spain , Germany , England and Russia .

  116. @peterAUS

    I think there may have been some Basques and Catalans on that side too at the time. And Russian volunteers on the other.

    Considering that certain people have to share a certain space then best find out how to do it with minimum conflict as there could be other, greater threats, that could engulf all these with no regard for these, to them, petty disagreements. All these people have their own viewpoints and arguments. I suppose it’s OK to argue about history and all that but not take your eye off the future and what it portends. Because those who are coming couldn’t give a toss about what we argue about here between our various selves, they’re coming to take it all, if you let them. And perhaps those who would turn Europeans against each other, in the present situation, are as bad as traitors.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  117. peterAUS says:
    @Commentator Mike

    Let’s put it this way:
    Yes.

    Also irrelevant, in this case.

    That “there could be other, greater threats…”. For those two there is no greater threat than each other, in this Universe.

    Hehe….you are more than welcome to try to change that. Can’t really say “good luck” I am afraid. Would really sound disingenuous.

  118. AP says:
    @Beckow

    The idiocy of the people here such as you, so desperately pretending that Ukraine is a Somalia or that its economy is collapsing, is rather funny.

    Reality is that Ukraine has recovered to its 2013 condition, the western parts are doing better than the other parts (how bitter for the Soviet-philes), and Ukraine has lost the disruptive, crime-infested, HIV-infested Donbas. This is the biggest gift Putin could have given Ukraine.

    GDP growth 4.6% second quarter 2019:

    https://menafn.com/1098893034/46-percent-surge-in-Ukrainian-economic-growth

    (growth has been consistent since 2015)

    GDP PPP per capita now surpasses 2013:

    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.PP.CD?locations=UA

    GDP per capita nominal in constant dollars was only $50 lower in 2018 than in 2013 (so it has surpassed it in 2019):

    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.KD?locations=UA

    Ukraine’s Antonov won a contract to supply A-178 planes to Peru:

    http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-08/14/c_138309309.htm

    (We were told by the genius Russians here that this company has ceased to exist and its employees all moved to Russia)

    The desperate Russians here will claim all of those figures are made up.

    But then:

    Here is a video of walking around all over Kiev. It’s a normal, European city. Well, it’s a little weird because there are almost no non-Europeans there:

    Looks just like Somalia, doesn’t it?

    I guess the desperate Russians will claim that thousands of actors were hired or that this is all very complex CGI, or something.

    We might not have AP and Hack around much longer to tell us about the wonders of the call centers and Habsburg cafes in Lviv.

    Yes. R & D centers and programming outsourcing offices are “call centers.” So desperate…

  119. Begemot says:
    @AP

    and Ukraine has lost the disruptive, crime-infested, HIV-infested Donbas. This is the biggest gift Putin could have given Ukraine.

    Then the loss of the Donbass is a plus for Ukraine? Then why doesn’t Kiev just let Putin keep it?

    • Replies: @AP
  120. Anon[424] • Disclaimer says:

    How many million ukranians remain in the country of the aprox 52 millions she had in 1990 ?

    Maybe 25.30 millions ?

    the rest has seceded , emigrated to Russia , to Europe and elsewhere .

  121. yurivku says:
    @Durruti

    Great summary. It’s sad but it’s true despite being incomplete. Point 11 can be continued with oligarchy and corruption story and other local woes…

    • Replies: @Durruti
  122. yurivku says:
    @AP

    I guess the desperate Russians will claim that thousands of actors were hired or that this is all very complex CGI, or something.

    Beleive me or not, but Russians have no interest of your shithole “country”. Just it smells too bad and this is quite close. Must be cleaned up and buried.
    Hope this task is feasible for you.
    This is the only reason for our “desperation”.

    BTW, your staying in Canada probably is due to too cloudless life in UKi, that’s clear.

    • Replies: @AP
  123. Pandour says: • Website
    @Commentator Mike

    First and foremost,ask yourself the question-WHAT qualifies you to comment on the history of former Yugoslavia.You can read neither Croatian,nor Serbian and you havent even taken the time to consult former Yugoslav communist sources which totally debunk your claims.Jasenovac was a labor camp and the most recent claim of some eighty thousand- of which you are totally unaware-has been totally debunked for years.Tens of thousands of the above mentioned have been proven to be false victims-people who survived the war,died or were killed elsehwhere or who were simply made up.Case in point,and I simply cant documentmention tens of thousand of false victims,is Mirko Breyer,not some ordinary peasent or citizen,born Oct. 23. 1863.,died 29. Dec. 1946.-he was a renowned publicist,bibilofile and the founder of the first antiquarian society in Croatia.To this day he is on the victims list of the Jasenovac Memorial site-JUSP Jasenovac,on page 214,as having been killed in,natrurally,as is frequently the case,with not even the year of death.Youre a victim of Serb and zionist propaganda and indoctrination.All I can say is that you know absolutely nothing of what went on in the Independent State of Croatia during WW II and I assure you that your comments are an insult to genuine scholarship and anyone interested in actual facts.If you were aware of your ignorance,Ithink you would be deeply ashamed.In the final analysis,youre no friend of the Serbs.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  124. AP says:
    @Begemot

    Then the loss of the Donbass is a plus for Ukraine?

    It is a great plus for Ukraine.

    Then why doesn’t Kiev just let Putin keep it?

    1. Probably for similar reasons why, if someone took the Mexican-inhabited parts of the American Southwest (which would be a plus), the US government would still try to take it back or keep it.

    2. Russian forces would take as much as they could get until meeting resistance. Losing Donbas was good for Ukraine, losing Kharkiv, Dnipropetrovsk, etc. would be bad. So resistance was necessary. The current military border is a good one.

    3. Most Ukrainians voters want to keep it. Which is dumb of them.

    • Replies: @Begemot
  125. Mulegino1 says:
    @Parsnipitous

    I appreciate your comment, and indeed ideological terms are now upside down- which is not unusual at all.

    I would, however, suggest that the “Nazi” roots of the anti-Russian Ukrainians are quite superficial and appear to be limited to the appropriation of Waffen SS insignia as a type of criminal gang sign. Any organization funded by arch-criminal Kolomoisky could hardly be styled as truly “national socialist” unless, of course, it were Israeli.

  126. AP says:
    @yurivku

    I don’t live in Canada. Do you? AnoninTN lives in Tennessee and Martyanov also lives in the USA. Does that say something about the state of Russia?

    It’s telling that you couldn’t respond to a single one of the facts.

    Here is a video of another city in the country you compare to Somalia. Vynnytsia:

    Let me guess – also full of actors and made with CGI? Full of roaming armed gangs, burned out buildings, desperate and poor people? LOL.

    ::::::::::::

    Since 2015 numerous new factories have been built in central and western Ukrainian cities like Vynnytsia.

    ::::::::::::

    It’s really not nice of people like you to try to fool Americans when you write your nonsense about Ukraine.

    • Replies: @yurivku
  127. Durruti says:
    @yurivku

    yurivku

    Thanks for the comments.

    Yes, the lists are incomplete. I chose the most important points (the ones I could remember) mixed in with a little sarcasm.

    I used #5 twice.

    Nations, with their peoples and cultures must be defended. Without our Republics, what do we have?

  128. @AP

    So, getting to the GDP level a country had 5 years ago is a huge economic success? I am not even talking about reliability of the data (e.g., this site https://tradingeconomics.com/ukraine/gdp-per-capita-ppp has a different take), but if that is success, than even the lowest shithole countries are successful, whereas most are super-achievers: the majority of the countries are way above 2013 levels.

    No wonder that peerless leader Porky, under whose leadership this fantastic success was achieved, got 24.4% of the votes of eternally grateful populace, whereas a clown with no experience got 73.4% (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/apr/21/zelenskiy-wins-second-round-of-ukraines-presidential-election-exit-poll). High opinion of Porky’s leadership was confirmed in parliamentary elections: clown’s party won 254 seats, anti-Porky opposition platform won 43 seats, Porky’s nemesis Timoshenko got 26, whereas Porky’s party took an illustrious fourth place, getting as many as 25 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Ukrainian_parliamentary_election).

    Antonov stopped producing aircraft, and hopes to restart production in the bright future with the help of Boeing (https://airlinerwatch.com/boeing-helps-antonov-to-restart-serial-production/). This is why at a few latest airshows Ukraine did not fly any aircraft, only showed models. LOL.

    Ukraine’s Antonov won a contract to supply A-178 planes to Peru

    Let’s recall recent history. Ukraine agreed to supply Thailand 49 tanks in 2011. By late 2016 it managed to produce only 25. After missing numerous deadlines, it fulfilled the contract in 2018, many years later than promised (here is Ukie news about this https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/ukroboronprom-finishes-producing-oplot-tanks-thailand.html).

    Then there is Dozor-B armored personnel carrier. The first prototype was shown in 2004. In 2016 Ukrainian defence ministry cancelled the procurement of all Dozor-B vehicles due to constant delays, manufacturing failures, and budget overruns. In August 2019 it decided to purchase Polish Oncilla instead (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dozor-B).

    Any comment about Nikolaev shipbuilding plant and its rusting glorious product: missile cruiser “Ukrayina”? It was started back in the USSR. After three decades of no progress, Ukraine decided to cut it into scrap metal.

    Here is a video of walking around all over Kiev. It’s a normal, European city.

    Sure, any normal normal European city would proudly boast burnt out multi-story building that remained on the central square for many years (see https://www.bwint.org/cms/news-72/ukraine-the-trade-union-house-rebuilt-1466).
    Also, any European city would be proud to have a major thoroughfare named after Waffen SS Hauptman (Shukhevych avenue in Kiev: https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/kyivs-general-vatutin-avenue-renamed-roman-shukhevych-avenue.html). Again, that’s Ukie news. Here is some info about Shukhevych (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Shukhevych). Even though it’s heavily redacted, what remains is quite damning.

    One can continue listing “achievements” of Ukraine, both pre- and post-Maidan, but normal people know the gist of it, whereas Ukies are hopeless.

    • Replies: @AP
    , @yurivku
  129. Begemot says:
    @AP

    I’ve heard similar arguments made with respect to Crimea, that it was an economic loser and now the Russians are stuck with it. Which of course, suggests that Ukraine is better of without it, but that is obviously not the position of the rulers of Ukraine. This seems like a case of sour grapes, or complete stupidity on the part of Ukrainians (as you suggest above), or those making the argument are stupid. I lean towards the latter.

    • Replies: @AP
  130. yurivku says:
    @AP

    I don’t live in Canada.

    I’m pretty sure you’re not living in UKi. Is this Canada, Poland, Italy or whereever doesn’t bother me. BTW last year I stayed for 2 week in Rome, the maid was uki approx 50 y.o. she told me she’s getting there about 250 EUR/month and that this is better then at home. She even sending some money to UKi. I gave her 50 EUR when leaving and she was happy.

    AnoninTN lives in Tennessee and Martyanov also lives in the USA. Does that say something about the state of Russia?

    Yes, it does about Russia and about those guys. But both of them left Russia at her very dark and hard times. And they do not deny the clear fact that this times where bad, so do I, I confirm it. I even won’t state that contemporary Russia is ideal – no, far from that. But, all our problems are local, we are honest people and lving our own live for our own earnings.

    You – UKi is quasi nation currently formed from criminals, dummies and cowards. You betrayed all your past and future and doomed to dissappear as a state. And nobody will regret.

    I live in Moscow. It’s easy to prove, but I think that’s not your goal.

    Let me guess – also full of actors and made with CGI? Full of roaming armed gangs, burned out buildings, desperate and poor people? LOL.

    As I told you it doesn’t fvking interesting to me. Live as you can just don’t stink before our door and don’t ask for money as you always did.

    It’s really not nice of people like you to try to fool Americans when you write your nonsense about Ukraine.

    Actually I don’t try to tell anything to amerikans about anything, there are too few of those who listen and/or willing/capable to understand.
    AnonFromTN does, but seems he’s got tired also.

    As for your propaganda of happy UKies living in prosperous countr – come on you live there, but don’t ask money.
    And now your clown president is asking for US base in UKi, this can be the very last mistake of your “state”.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @AP
  131. @yurivku

    My bet is that even not particularly bright Trump won’t be dumb enough to place anything of value in Ukraine. Even something paid for by tax dollars, like a military base.

    • Replies: @yurivku
  132. yurivku says:
    @AnonFromTN

    God knows. The stupidity of both is infinite.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  133. @yurivku

    You sound like Einstein, who reportedly said “Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe!”

    • Replies: @yurivku
  134. AP says:
    @AnonFromTN

    “So, getting to the GDP level a country had 5 years ago is a huge economic success”

    It certainly isn’t some sort of ongoing collapse as you falsely claim.

    Ukraine has recovered it’s pre-Revolutionary GDP per capita and continues to grow.

    “ I am not even talking about reliability of the data (e.g., this site https://tradingeconomics.com/ukraine/gdp-per-capita-ppp has a different take)”

    The site has the same take. It just ends at 2017.
    We are discussing 2018- 2019. You can see on the site you linked to that The trajectory is the same. Try to be more honest – I know, its hard for you when Ukraine is involved.

    Dozor was a failure, missile development has gone well.

    Soviet-era industries tied to Russia have floundered, new industries linked to the west have grown, IT has grown, agriculture is booming. So it’s a wash. GDP per capital is back to where it was.

    Ukrainians elected Ze because the country has stabilized and is secure, but they want to end corruption.

    Ukraine was and is a middle-income country, poorer than most of it’s neighbors with a slowly growing economy. You and others lie that it is collapsing, Somalia, etc. Very desperately.

  135. AP says:
    @Begemot

    Crimea was valuable but full of Russians so Ukraine is better off without it.

    “Sour grapes” is a perfect description of the impulses behind the sheer nonsense being written about Ukraine.

  136. yurivku says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Thanks, despite he’s not my hero. But degradation of current “elites” and their stupidity really infinite.

  137. Beckow says:
    @AP

    …pretending that Ukraine is a Somalia

    Nobody mentioned Somalia, so you are fighting a strawman. Ukraine’s GDP/capita is similar to Jamaica, Philippines or Guatemala. Not much to write home for a European country.

    We went over the fact that after 5-6 years Ukraine has again reached its 2013 level – again not much to be proud of after a ‘revolution’ whose goal was to reach European levels. 70% of voters rejected Poroshenko model after 2014 and are looking for just about anything else – again unprecedented in modern Europe after 1989. The debts that Ukraine took in the last 5 years will have to be paid back, how?

    As of 2019, Ukraine is not in EU and has minimal chances to even start accession talks, and has worst economic relations with Russia in its history. How is it going to get better? Who is coming to the rescue? The transit fees – and not just for gas – will be gone soon. EU has no money to dump into Ukraine. Washington talks a lot, but never pays for anything. The war in Donbas is unwinnable.

    The potential in Ukraine and the actual results are among the worst in the world. One example: in official statistics the numbers in Ukraine when converted to PPP (purchasing power) are tripled – that says that actual real consumption in Ukraine is valued three times more than its monetary value. When a country has a ratio that skewed – it is almost unheard off – it says that its government, finances and economy are massively mismanaged.

    At some point, results matter. It is not ‘Somalia’ (thank God), but it is not good. And I still haven’t seen a realistic plan on how to get out of the current situation. Throwing themselves on Russia’s mercy is not realistic – they won’t help.

    • Replies: @Avery
    , @AP
  138. yurivku says:
    @AP

    Please tell us where from you spew your words of wisdom? And why not from this paradise you sent videos from? Why not to help you with your huge intellectual capabilities?
    Thanks in advance

  139. @AP

    Yea, Ukraine is flourishing. That’s exactly why there are 12 criminal investigations into former “president” Porky in Ukraine, and quite a few in other countries. That’s why American lawyer Sam Kislin accuses Porky of stealing and offshoring $8 billion. Sure sign of a healthy flourishing country. Compared to Porky even Haiti’s Papa Doc or Central African Republic Bokassa were paragons of honesty.

  140. annamaria says:
    @AP

    “IMF ranks Ukraine as Europe’s poorest country:” https://www.intellinews.com/imf-ranks-ukraine-as-europe-s-poorest-country-150301/

    Ukraine’s gross domestic product (GDP) per capita in current prices in US dollar terms stood at $2,964.193 in 2018, according to October’s update of the World Economic Outlook published by the International Monetary Fund (IMF). That makes Ukraine the poorest country in Europe, behind Moldova ($3,226.717), Belarus ($6,020.043) and Russia ($10,950.492).

  141. Beckow says:
    @AP

    …Ukrainians elected Ze because the country has stabilized and is secure, but they want to end corruption.

    To most observers it looked like electing ‘none of the above‘, or a complete repudation of the previous rulers. Good, that’s the positive part of this story.

    How do you end corruption? Corruption is not a government program, it is in the business culture – that’s how things have worked in Ukraine. Some processes reduce corruption: paying government people a lot more, reducing the size and financial reach of government, transparency, making an example of a few worst cases.

    Ze is not in a position to do any of them. In 2020-22 there will still be corruption everywhere in Ukraine. If ending corruption is Ze’s primary goal, he will fail or be be perceived by voters as failing.

    There is a 2-step process that might work:
    – end the war – accept a federated Ukraine and don’t mention Crimea
    – put pressure on EU by working with Russia – try to reestablish economic ties and stop provoking.

    It could be too late and Russian might just sit it out watching EU squirm with its unwanted Kiev ally. But at the minimum, rule #1 in any negotiation is to have an alternative. Once Maidan stupidly ‘committed’ Ukraine to anything-EU-NATO-whatever, they lost any leverage when talking to Brussels-Washington. Smart people never do that. Emotional wrecks looking for approval or just trying to escape who they are do that.

  142. annamaria says:
    @AP

    “Ukrainians elected Ze because the country has stabilized and is secure, but they want to end corruption.”

    — To end corruption? Well: http://johnhelmer.net/the-kolomoisky-pyramid-started-with-hillary-clinton-and-victoria-nuland-of-the-state-department-plus-christine-lagarde-of-the-imf/

    In the spring of 2014 [after the victorious regime-changing], the IMF voted massive loans for the Ukraine… More than a third of the fresh IMF money was paid out by the National Bank of Ukraine (NBU), the state’s central bank, into PrivatBank controlled by Kolomoisky and his partner, Gennady Bogolyubov.

    … investigations of Kolomoisky’s business and banking practices… reported he was stealing the money through a pyramid of front companies lending each other the IMF cash which was not intended to be repaid.

    https://www.dw.com/en/zelenskiy-laughing-all-the-way-to-privatbank/a-48895940

    Who is going to pay back the loaned billions?

  143. @Pandour

    Pandour,

    Likewise the Serbs claim that the Srebrenica numbers are inflated with many false victims:

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/media-fabrications-the-srebrenica-massacre-is-a-western-myth/17836

    What I gather is that everyone there has their own version of the story and thinks they’re right and the others are wrong, and blame each other. Also, many blame external forces for what went on there, without necessarily absolving the locals.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Pandour
  144. peterAUS says:
    @Commentator Mike

    ….he Serbs claim that the Srebrenica numbers are inflated with many false victims:…

    They are.

    Here it is my perception of that reality:
    The number of “dead” is the number made up by Muslim side as advised by….let’s call it The Third Party (TTP in further text). That number, officially, now (it was a bit lower before, but, that’s how this thing works of course) 8000. Or…”8000 Muslim men and BOYS were massacred by Serbs”.

    The facts:
    Some Muslims were killed in the initial assault, breaking through defenses and advance into the city. Including on spot killings by enraged Serb combatants. Understandable (oh my….) taking into account rather ….colorful…history of the place and region, especially including some Muslim “excursions” in ’92 and ’93. Anyway…..
    The bulk of Muslim men decided to break through the Serb encirclement and get to Tuzla region where the majority of their forces were. That bulk was lightly armed and was being blocked and chased, shelled etc. by Serbs. Breaking through several layers of Serb blocking forces plus the rest killed a lot of those. Some estimates are around 2000. Nobody knows. Some of those were taken as prisoners.
    Some of Muslims, not wanting to go into the breakout, were also taken as prisoners.
    So far so good: advance, revenge spontaneous killings, heavy fighting along the escape route…..

    Now the bad part.
    Around between 1500 and 2500 Muslim prisoners were executed by firing squads in a quite well-organized operation led by the chief of Serb Military Security there, Mr. Beara. The guy was arrested, tried at Hague and died in prison. The main thing: WHO ordered/told him/supported him from high places to do that? Nobody knows. Well……nobody whose statement can be held in Court, that is.

    And…hahaha…the above is something no party likes to hear. Including TPP, of course. The only which matters here, naturally.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  145. Avery says:
    @Beckow

    {Ukraine’s GDP/capita …….. Not much to write home for a European country.}

    According to CIA Factbook:
    GDP – per capita (PPP):.
    Ukraine $8,800 (2017 est.)
    Armenia $9,500 (2017 est.)

    This is astonishing: by all rights, Ukraine PPP should be at least 3x the PPP of Armenia, in the ballpark of Russia (~28K)

    Armenia (also a former USSR republic) is landlocked, very little to none natural resources, blockaded East and West borders by Azerbaijan and Turkey, in a virtual state of war, unreliable and expensive transportation routes via Iran or Georgia, has no coal, no hydrocarbons,…..

    Ukraine is blessed with some of the richest agricultural land in the world, has abundant reserves of coal, has unrestricted and cost-effective land and sea routes for trade & transportation, had (has?) an excellent manufacturing infrastructure (airplanes, airplane and helicopter engines,….)

    How is it possible for them to have lower PPP than Armenia?
    How did they manage to screw things up so bad?

    • Replies: @AP
  146. It’s always funny when Russians claim that Ukraine, which is racially and culturally-homogeneous and whose history dates back to the time before Moscow was founded, is somehow not a “real” country, unlike glorious Mother Russia, which contains dozens of different races and cultures, a feeble economy smaller than Brazil’s, cities of rotting communist architecture, and capital full of Muslims who worship at the biggest mosque in Europe; a Zionist mafia state whose bogus patriotism is based on Stalin worship and recycled WW2 propaganda. If Ukraine is a fake country, Russia is even faker.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  147. bluedog says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    But you would’nt miss it for the world along with your buddy the Hackman,for it puts some meaning in your very small twisted world, and gives you something to bitch about as if anyone really cares.!!!

  148. bluedog says:
    @Skeptikal

    Lol forget the Hackman he’s a mental excapee from one of their famous loony bins somewhere in the Ukraine,the best thing to do is simply block him, for another post with some intelligence to it!!!.

  149. @Staudegger

    Maybe on your planet Ukraine is homogeneous. Here on Earth it is incredibly heterogeneous. There is Eastern and Southern Ukraine, speaking mostly Russian and Surgik (a crazy mix of Russian and Central Ukrainian), there is quite different Slobozhanschina (Kharkov region) speaking almost pure Russian, there is Central Ukraine (Poltava and nearby regions) speaking (at least in villages) what became literary Ukrainian, there is Odessa and areas around it, speaking Russian, with a sprinkling of Romanian and Bulgarian, there is Volhynia and Galicia, speaking a variety of Polonized or Germanized dialects, there is Trans-Carpathian region, where people hate Galicians even more fiercely than Russians do, and where there are sizable Hungarian and Romanian populations speaking their own languages. I am not even counting Crimea that never was Ukrainian and never will be.
    Tell us more about your planet, I am curious.

    • Replies: @Staudegger
  150. AP says:
    @Beckow

    Nobody mentioned Somalia

    Another false statement by you.

    AnonfromTN:

    https://www.unz.com/tsaker/ukie-nationalism-vs-otto-von-bismarck/#comment-3401224

    “The problems of that huge Somalia can only be solved by concerted effort of many European countries and Russia.”

    Ukraine’s GDP/capita is similar to Jamaica, Philippines or Guatemala

    Its income inequality is completely different and is on European norms, so it’s an unrealistic comparison from those.

    We went over the fact that after 5-6 years Ukraine has again reached its 2013 level

    Which is different from it being in permanent collapse.

    It has gotten back to 2013 levels, with consistent 3-4% annual growth.

    Prior to Maidan it was growing at 0% – 1% per year.

    The debts that Ukraine took in the last 5 years will have to be paid back, how?

    Ukraine’s debts are already decreasing, while its forex reserves are now higher than they were in 2013.

    Debt peaked in 2014:

    https://tradingeconomics.com/ukraine/external-debt

    Down to 114429 USD Million in 2019 from 142079 USD Million in 2013.

    Forex reserves at $22 billion, from $5 billion in 2015:

    https://tradingeconomics.com/ukraine/foreign-exchange-reserves

    ‘revolution’ whose goal was to reach European levels

    Revolution had any goals, among which was prevention of dictatorship. Poroshenko was peacefully voted out.

  151. AP says:
    @Avery

    How is it possible for them to have lower PPP than Armenia?
    How did they manage to screw things up so bad?

    25 years of avoiding Western integration.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  152. @AP

    Implying that Armenia (or Belarus, for that matter, which is also higher than Ukraine) had Western integration? You appear to be much dumber than I thought. My bad.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    , @AP
  153. Beckow says:
    @AnonFromTN

    He is not dumb, he is desperate. Things are not going his way, so he does some verbal nihilism. At this point, AP is way down in his reality denial tailspin. Ask him if he would invest in Ukraine, if he would bet on grivna…or bet on Ukraine being in EU in our lifetimes. Or ask him how many people are left in Ukraine…

    • Replies: @AP
    , @AnonFromTN
  154. AP says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Did you see where Armenia and Ukraine are on a map? Do you know basic geography?

    Compare Belarus to Poland to see whether Western or Eastern integration are better.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  155. AP says:
    @Beckow

    You are interacting with someone who claimed Ukraine is Somalia and you speak of “desperation.”

    Things are not going his way,

    They are going slowly, but fine. Economy has gotten back to where it was, and is growing. Debt is decreasing, forex reserves are increasing, wages are increasing and are ahead of inflation. Ukraine is still poor by European standards, but improving. You think that otherwise, had Yanukovuch remained in power, it would be a tiger economy? LOL.

    You ignore the facts I posted, so obviously things are not going your way.

  156. @Beckow

    Maybe you are right. However, in my book refusing to face the reality is always dumb. If you bury your head in the sand, like an ostrich, the reality would bite you in the ass.

    • Replies: @AP
  157. AP says:
    @yurivku

    I’m pretty sure you’re not living in UKi.

    I live in the same country as AnonfromTN, Martyanov, Saker, and 80% of the pro-Russian posters here. The difference is that I visit Ukraine more often than they visit Russia. Hell, I visit Russia more often than they visit Russia.

    BTW last year I stayed for 2 week in Rome, the maid was uki approx 50 y.o. she told me she’s getting there about 250 EUR/month

    Cool. Our nanny was an engineer from Russia and we paid her $400 per month to watch our kid.

    Yes, it does about Russia and about those guys. But both of them left Russia at her very dark and hard times.

    Yet they don’t come back.

    You – UKi is quasi nation currently formed from criminals, dummies and cowards. You betrayed all your past and future and doomed to dissappear as a state. And nobody will regret.

    Desperation and sour grapes.

    Let me guess – also full of actors and made with CGI? Full of roaming armed gangs, burned out buildings, desperate and poor people? LOL.

    As I told you it doesn’t fvking interesting to me.

    It interests you very much, otherwise you wouldn’t be so desperate and write about how terrible it is, and lie about it, so much.

    I live in Moscow. It’s easy to prove, but I think that’s not your goal.

    Nice. I used to spend my summers there, and visit often. My wife still has a flat there. Hers is next to metro Taganskaya but when we lived there it was rented so we stayed on Tverskaya.

    One of my friend’s brother is running for the Moscow City council; he is a pro-Putin candidate, running against a Communist.

    Are you a communist degenerate, per chance?

    As for your propaganda of happy UKies living in prosperous countr

    I present facts, you present desperate pleas. As I stated, Ukraine is a middle income country with a slowly growing economy, surrounded by far richer countries. It has recovered to 2013 in terms of per capita GDP and is growing faster than it had been growing under the previous regime. It is not a dirt poor, collapsing, gang-ridden Somalia that you and your desperate friends falsely claim it to be.

    Here is someone walking around Lviv:

    It is nicer than many provincial Russian cities.

    I guess it is all actors and CGI in your world, right?

    Here is the provincial oblast center of Cherkassy in central Ukraine:

    Nothing special, but also not a Somalia like you are desperate for it to be. Looks not much different from a small Russian city far from Moscow a few years ago. Those weren’t terrible places either.

    • Troll: bluedog
    • Replies: @yurivku
  158. @AnonFromTN

    Because different regions of Ukraine speaking different version of Ukrainian is at all comparable to Russia, where you have Tartars, Chechens, Bashkirs, Chinese, Koreans, and various Central Asiatics all identifying as “Russian?

    • Replies: @annamaria
    , @AnonFromTN
  159. AP says:
    @AnonFromTN

    However, in my book refusing to face the reality is always dumb.

    You are very hard on yourself.

    You write about Ukraine:

    “that huge Somalia ”

    “The streets in Ukraine are ruled by dumb uncouth hillbillies”

    Here is Somalia full of uncouth hillbillies – Lviv:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3033&v=DDWAobR8U0c

    Vynnytsia, a smaller more provincial city in central Ukraine:

    :::::::::::::::::

    So we see who is refusing to face reality.

  160. @Lot

    As one would be of a carbuncle on Russia’s arse.

  161. @peterAUS

    Yes, more or less.

    Srebrenica, and that Muslim Cemetery, are now in Republika Srpska, the Serbian administrative zone. I was quite surprised when I learned that, especially given the fact that the president of Serbia gets stoned and attacked by the gathered muslims when he visits there. There’s too much confusion to unravel and many unanswered questions. Some claim that many corpses were brought to that cemetery from other areas that had nothing to with the massacre. Still … so that was done under the noses of the Serb administration. Hmmm? I suppose they have to go with TPTB to an extent, just like anyone else.

  162. yurivku says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Ukraine’s Antonov won a contract to supply A-178 planes to Peru

    Actually Peru ordered just one aircraft. For testing.

    https://svpressa.ru/politic/article/241060/?rss=1&utm_source=yxnews&utm_medium=desktop

    Other “achievements” also pure lies and exagerations.

  163. Seraphim says:
    @peterAUS

    Who might they be?
    One may think that they are the ‘Zaporizhians’ if you believe the ‘Constitution of Pylyp Orlyk’:
    “God, who is wondrous and unfathomable in his judgments, merciful in forbearance, just in punishment, has ever since the beginning of this visible> world elevated some kingdoms and peoples according to his most equitable judgment and humiliated others because of their offences and iniquities, ­reduced some to slavery and liberated others, exalted some and cast down others. In the same way, the valiant and ancient Cossack people, formerly called Khazar, was at first exalted by immortal glory, spacious territory, and heroic exploits which inspired fear both at sea and on land not only among neighbouring peoples but even in the Eastern Empire, so much so that the Eastern emperor, wishing to make lasting peace with it, joined his son in matrimony to the daughter of the Khagan, that is to say, the Cossack ­prince…”
    And one wonders where the Khazars had disappeared!

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  164. yurivku says:
    @AP

    I live in the same country as AnonfromTN, Martyanov, Saker, and 80% of the pro-Russian posters here.

    It explains everything so there are only 2 choices:
    1) you’re dumb as a cork or just lier
    2) you’re payed for your lying work here

    “Pro-russian posters” here are just few and you counted almost all of them. But now we’re talking not about Russia but about UKi which is criminal shithole whose population got down from 52 to about 25-30 millions. They completely lost shipbuilding, aircraft building (
    https://news.yandex.ru/story/Rossiya_v_glubokoj_tajne_spasaet_aviaprom_Ukrainy–e67f11fc2b68b592e276a14d4f5c7f99?from=newswizard&lang=ru&persistent_id=71305880&rubric=politics Peru ordered just one aircraft),

    space/rocket industries, even agriculure got down. Your figures are plain fakes except those which show the relative increase. When after 3 units of something they produced 6 that gains 100% increase.

    E.g. let have a look at cars production
    2013 – 50,460 (not too much for 50 millions, but let’s look further…)
    2017 – 9,305
    2018 – 6,623 (! more than 9 times less)
    2019 – 2,390 ( 5 months, assuming UKi now have 30 millions it gaves us 1 car/12552 person )
    ( https://auto.vercity.ru/statistics/production/europe/2019/ukraine/01-12/ )

    Looking to Russia ( https://auto.vercity.ru/statistics/production/europe/2019/russia/ )
    2018 – 1,770,545
    2019 – 714, 477 (5 months)

    and so on. Here only local production, Russians bought 828 750 cars in last 6 month.

    I quit arguing with you for that makes not much sense, those who have brains will see everything themselves.

    Yes, it does about Russia and about those guys. But both of them left Russia at her very dark and hard times.

    Yet they don’t come back.

    Did you? They have reason not comin back – Russia is still not perfect (but it’s up 2 them to explain, not my business) , but why you are not in your paradise?

    Being here for last 2 and a half years I will confirm – there are enough fools here in comment sections, but still I don’t thing many will believe in you propaganda. Just few those like you dumb or payed.

    • Replies: @AP
  165. @Seraphim

    I thought the Cossacks were Slavic people and the Khazars were not. Why are you mixing up the two?

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  166. AP says:
    @yurivku

    E.g. let have a look at cars production
    2013 – 50,460 (not too much for 50 millions, but let’s look further…)
    2017 – 9,305
    2018 – 6,623 (! more than 9 times less)
    2019 – 2,390 ( 5 months, assuming UKi now have 30 millions it gaves us 1 car/12552 person )
    ( https://auto.vercity.ru/statistics/production/europe/2019/ukraine/01-12/ )

    If you weren’t so desperate you wouldn’t have to be so dishonest by cherry-picking.

    Car parts production has increased signficantly.

    https://www.automotivelogistics.media/ukraines-automotive-industry-on-its-way-to-a-revival/18922.article

    Problems with Ukraine’s finished vehicle capacity are not reflected in its components production industry, however – during the past year, several foreign companies have declared plans for new or expanded production capacity in this sector, in fact.

    In particular, tier supplier Kromberg & Schubert plans to pump €30m ($35m) into building a second plant near the city of Zhitomir, in the west of the country, by 2019, boosting its current production output of 1,000 electric cable sets a day from its plant near Lutsk nearly fivefold.

    Alexander Sharvarsky, chief finance officer at Kromberg & Schubert Ukraine, says it is important new plants like this be located close to western borders, as most of its production is heading west to the plants of Daimler, BMW and Volkswagen in Europe.

    “[The new Zhitomir plant] is located close enough to the border, and compared to Lutsk it also has the important advantage of better infrastructure for cargo delivery,” he confirms.

    Another components manufacturer, Germany-based Leoni, also has plans for a second plant, construction of which should begin in 2018 with an investment of €15m. By 2021, when the facility should reach full operation, it will employ 8,000 people.

    However, the largest investor in the components industry in Ukraine is believed to be Fujikura Automotive Ukraine Lviv, the subsidiary of Japanese firm Fujikura. Last year, the company unveiled plans to expand its plant near Lviv, while in May this year, minister Stephan Kubiv said the company would be building two similar plants in Vinnitsa and Cherkassy. Full details have not been made public yet, but the company has said it expects to triple its staff in Ukraine to 6,000 employees.

    ::::::::::::::::::::

    Once can confirm these plants via google.

    Did you? They have reason not comin back – Russia is still not perfect (but it’s up 2 them to explain, not my business) , but why you are not in your paradise?

    I haven’t come back to Moscow either, even though I was offered a job there and can come back any time. This doesn’t say anything about the state of Moscow’s economy.

    As for “paradise” – again you lie about what I write. I state Ukraine is a middle-income country poorer than its neighbors with a slowly growing economy. It is not a “Somalia” or a shithole. Nor is it “paradise.” (this would be, maybe, Switzerland)

    I don’t thing many will believe in you propaganda

    Facts with links is not propaganda. Your desperate claims are.

    I quit arguing with you for that makes not much sense, those who have brains will see everything themselves.

    They will. You claim Ukraine is a complete disaster. We can see with our own eyes what a “complete disaster” looks like. Here is Lviv again:

    BTW, Lviv is building a $160 million tech center:

    https://www.uadn.net/2018/06/21/lviv-starts-construction-of-160-million-it-park/

    Lviv has about 1/15 Moscow’s population. So this is the equivalent in per capita terms of a $2.4 billion investment in Moscow.

  167. Pandour says: • Website
    @Commentator Mike

    I dont know where you hail from-I ASSURE you that I know the history of your country better than you do.Youre above all wasting your time,not only mine-HAVE YOU NO SHAME.As a parting shot, ill only add this.NO ONE in the West is qualified to adress the Serb-Croat issue,including so-called historians.As you and the other illiterates do not know,including those parading as historians in West,the former Serb- dominated communistsYugoslavia-what is it that you DO NOT understand about the word DOMINATED-which falsified history for decades compiled three lists of WW II victims-in 1946,1951 and 1964.All were FALSIFIED.The 1964 list gave the largest number of so-called victims,FOR ALL OF YUGOSLAVIA,some 590.000 including some 222.000 Partisans killed in combat,the rest being those killed by the Germans,Četniks-Serb royalists,Croat Ustaša,Italians,Hungarians,Bulgarians,the Nedić regime in Serbia,Moslem militias,And Albanian and anti-communist Slovenians.The results were a state secret and not revealed until 1989. because they gave the lie to Serbian lies and mythology.Serbs started killing Croats even before the creation of the first Serb-dominated Yugoslavia.In 1916. in Odessa the Serb military,by conservative estimate,killed hundreds of Croats,Austro-Hungarian POWS,because they did not want to join the Serbian army.From 1918. to 1941. Serb state terror killed hundreds of Croats-in 1935. alone two Catholic priests and 112 Croat peasents while tens of thousands of Croats passed through Serb jails where they were beaten and tortured.Even while the Axis invasion of Yugoslavia was under way,Serb troops killed by conservative estimate,300 Croats,including dozens of women and children.I WW II ,never mind the genocide against Croats and members of the German minority,the Serbs had two armies-the partisans and četniks who both had a common goal-the renewed establishment of of Yugoslavia as a Serb-dominated state.Case in point,the Četniks and partisans formed a joint military HQ in the first week of Sept. 1941. During the same week joint Serb-Četnik forces in the area of Kulen Vakuf slaughtered 2,237 Moslem civilians,the vast majority of them women and childre,and several hundred Croat refugees.Prior to that,the same gang murdered several thousand Croats and Moslems.Are you a Christian sir-Tito as the most ardent follower of Stalin and he is listed amongst the biggest mass-murderers in history,from 1941. to 1951. he murdered hundreds of thousands-from May to Sept. 1945. by conservative estimate,200.000 Croats alone,the killings being carried out for the most part by serb communist units.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  168. Seraphim says:
    @Commentator Mike

    That’s what Pylyp Orlyk said, it is an exact quotation (it was in brackets if you have noticed) from the “the first democratic constitution in the world”, the ‘“Pact and Constitution of Rights and Freedoms of the Cossack Army”, aka the “Bendery Constitution”, “a monument of Ukrainian philosophical and legal thought, but its grandeur remains little known and inadequately appreciated by the public” and “a manifest of political will of the Ukrainian nation before the whole world and memorable cultural monument of Ukrainian state and political opinion”.

    • Replies: @AP
  169. @Pandour

    I have no doubt that all sides there had an interest in playing with numbers when it came to the victims of WWII. When it comes to Jasenovac:

    For decades, politicians, academics and others in Croatia and Serbia have argued about the number of people who died at the camp – offering figures ranging from as low as 1,500 victims to as high as 1.1 million.

    https://balkaninsight.com/2018/01/31/croatia-s-jasenovac-death-toll-a-political-numbers-game-01-31-2018/

    I’ve had a brief look at Vladimir Geiger’s paper Numerical Indicators of the Victims of the Jasenovac Camp, 1941-1945 (Estimates, Calculations, Lists), Review of Croatian History, 9/2013, no. 1, 151-187, and, although he seems to prefer the estimate of 83,000, he concludes:

    The primary problem in research into the number and names and ethnicity/nationality and religious and social and regional and gender and age structure of camp fatalities in the NDH is the lack of original archival materials. But in research into the Second World War human losses in Croatia, and Yugoslavia, including the number of fatalities at the Jasenovac camp, the problem is most often not simply a lack of source documents and reliable indicators, but also the “good will” and even “common sense” to properly analyze specific matters.

    I’ll leave it at that.

    • Replies: @Pandour
    , @peterAUS
    , @Pandour
  170. annamaria says:
    @Staudegger

    Russians never denied the ethnic heterogeneity. The stories of supposedly “oppressed” Jews in Russia are not supported by the hard facts of ethnic tolerance.
    Whether German ancestry of Nabokov family of statesmen, Abyssinian ancestry of Pushkin (poet), Georgian ancestry of Bagration (general), Armenian ancestry of Florensky (philosopher), Jewish origin of Luria (neuropsychologist), or Tatar origin of Sagdeev (physicist) they all belong to Russian civilization.

  171. AP says:
    @Seraphim

    It’s just Sarmatism- proof that even in Orlyk’s time culturally Ukraine was still in the Polish world.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  172. Pandour says: • Website
    @Commentator Mike

    [Long comments lacking proper punctuation or paragraphs are less likely to be published.]

    [MORE]

    Geiger is a good professional but a coward at heart-he refuses to acknowledge the most recent research by numerous brave souls that have totally debunked the figure of 83.000 in Jasenovac as he does not want to share the fate of David Irving and others and become a pariah.Here is a recent example of the nonsense which still characterizes the historiography of the Jasenovac camp in Croatia as well where the communist nomenklatura still wields power-,source Hrvatski Tjednik-Croatian Weekly 14. August 2019.,page 38, title Arhiv Arlosen Protiv Jasenovačkog Popisa-The Arlosen Achive Against the Jasenovac List-the Arlosen Archive is the largest archive on victims of Nazi persecution.To briefly summarize-I wont delve into the biographical details of those mentioned-,the article clearly documents that Aron Koen,Josip Basch and Melanija Lowy were not,as the JUSP-Jasenovac Memorial Center claims,killed in Jasenovac in 1942,but that they were alive in 1949,as the Arlosen Archive clearly points outMy own take after years of research is that some 30.000 perished in the Jasenovac-Stara Gradiška complex,including several thousand Croat communists,the vast majority from typhus and other disease-a number of Ustaša guards died from typhus as well.Jasenovac was a labor cam which had a tannery,chain factory,brick works,and also produced arms for the Croat arms effort.It had a modern hospital where locals were treated,a dental office where one false wintness during the Šakić trial admitted that he had his teeth repaired,arts and crafts facilities-the inmates even played soccer with the Ustaša guards.In a nutshell,during WW II some 100,000 civilian inhabitants of the Independent State of Croatia,including at least 10,000 Serbs were killed by the communist partisans de facto a Serb force and by the Serb Četniks.In addition,some 50,000 members of the Croatian Armed Forces were killed against those two factions as well as against the Soviets and Bulgarians.The total includes thousands of wounded and POWs killed by the Partisans and Četniks during the war.In WW II at the most,some 100,000 Serb civilians perished on the territory of the NDH,including those in camps-most were not victims of the regime but the anarchy which prevailed throughout the war,primarily during the first eight months.Most of the Serb civilians in Bosnia were killed by Moslem mobs which also conducted raids into Croatian territory.The Ustaša executed a large number of perpetrators,such as the Moslem religious leader Bećir Borić and 11 other Moslems in the Bihać are in December 1941.Eight Ustaša guards were also shot for confiscating goods from Jasenovac prison inmates.IN ADDITION from may 8. 1945. to Sept. 1945. ALONE the Partisans,overwhelmingly Serbian in composition massacred by conservative estimate 200,000 Croat POWs and civilians,including some 10,000 wounded from hospitals and transports-from Slovenia to the Rumanian border-thus far in Slovenia where most of the killings took place,655 mass graves have been locate,in Croatia 995 and i Bosnia 195.Case in point,the Slovenian State Commission for Graves in the Huda Jama mine from 2009. to 2016. exhumed the remains of 1,416 victims of communist terror,the majority of them Croats,who were cast into shafts and walled-up alive.It is estimated that the remains of some 2.000 still remain in the shafts.All of the above I can document in depth.The vast majority have heard of the Katyn Woods where the Soviets murdered some 4,500 Polish officers but I doubt I can find one historian in the West who has heard of the Macelj Woods where the communists in five days killed over 11,000 Croat POWs and civilians or Maribor where over 30,000 Croat POWs were murdered in three weeks and their bodies dumped into a 3,2 km former German anti-tank trench-while building a highway in 1999,the workers came upon bones-from a lenght of 70 m the remains of 1,178 victims were exhumed.All this and much more is not taught in history classes in the West,although it is info decades old.To close,I ascribe to one rule of thumb-in history there are no sides,only facts.Im only satisfied with facts.The real tragedy is not that no one learns from history,but that those who should read it dont.All the best and happy trails.

  173. peterAUS says:
    @Commentator Mike

    I’ll leave it at that.

    Hehe..”stirring a pot, a”? Seen that “176” above?
    Consider yourself lucky. The other side isn’t participating.

    That’s not the point. The point is: those two will, ALWAYS, go for each other first.

    I’d suggest keeping that in mind re any scenario in Europe.

    Say….Empire in trouble enough to be incapable of projecting hard power there.
    The parties in Bosnia try to finalize some ideas. Croats shall side with Muslims against Serbs.
    Make of that what you will.

  174. @Staudegger

    Did you read what I wrote? Since when are Russian, Romanian, Bulgarian, and Hungarian versions of Ukrainian? Maybe in your book English is also a version of Ukrainian?
    As to self-identification, Russian is not a narrow Hutu-Tutsi type tribal identity, it is a state of mind. As former commander of Gorlovka forces in DPR Bezler said, “my mother is Ukrainian, my father German. So, who am I? A Russian!”

  175. Seraphim says:
    @AP

    ‘Sarmatism’ or not, this is what Orlyk and certainly the budding ‘Ukrainian’ nationalists claimed. It became a ‘fundational’ claim of ‘Ukrainian’ nationality. He insists on the identity Zaporozhian Host-Cossaks-Khazars and differentiate them from the Ruthenians:

    “But though God, unfathomable and incomprehensible in his righteous judgments, had punished our ancestors with innumerable calamities, he was not unceasingly angry or bearing ill will for ever, for, wishing to restore the aforementioned Cossack people to its original free­dom from the heavy Polish yoke, he brought forth a fervent defender of the Orthodox religion and of the rights and liberties of our fatherland, the valiant Hetman Bohdan Khmelnytsky of eternal memory, who, with divine help, with the invincible assistance of His Most Serene Majesty Charles X, King of Sweden, of immortal and glorious memory, and with the support of the Crimean state and the military might of the Zaporozhian Host, as well as through his own astute diligence, care, labour, and magnitude of spirit, liberated the Zaporozhian Host and the oppressed Ruthenian [Rossiaca] people from Polish servitude. He also vol­untarily submitted himself and his people to the authority of the Muscovite tsardom in the hope that, being of the same religious faith with us, it would abide by the obligations contained in treaties and covenants and confirmed by oath, and would for ever preserve inviolably under its protection the rights and liberties of the Zaporozhian Host and the free Ruthenian [Rossi­acam] people. However, after the death of Hetman Bohdan Khmelnytsky of blessed memory, the Muscovite tsardom attempted by many ingenious means to weaken and utterly destroy the liberties of the Zaporozhian Host that it itself had confirmed and to place the yoke of slavery on the free people whom it itself had never subdued by force of arms. Then, whenever the Zaporozhian Host suffered that violence, it was forced to defend the integrity of its laws and liberties with its own blood and courage, with God the avenger supporting it in defence of those laws and liberties”.
    It is symbolic that the ‘liberties’ of the Cossaks/Khazars have been so heavily supported by Victoria Nuland of the Kagan clan (this one undoubtedly Khazar like all the Presidents, Prim-Ministers, etc!). Ukraine became properly a Khazarstan (the silly moniker “Banderastan’ is just dust in the eyes. The ‘Ukronazis’ goons sport a Taras Bulba appearance).
    It is likely that the Szlachta had the same Khazar origin.

    • Replies: @AP
  176. @AP

    Poland was used by the EU as a shop window. A lot of money was invested there. This did not prevent “Polish plumbers” from getting all sorts of jobs in the EU. In fact, Brexit is partially driven by the resentment of Polish migrants that depress the wages in the UK.

    If you really want a comparison, Georgia and Armenia are neighbors. Neither has much in the way on natural resources. Georgia has an advantage of sea exit, whereas Armenia is landlocked. Georgia was ruled by various anti-Russian maidanistas since Saakashvili, whereas Armenia maintained close connections with Russia and its economic block. Net result speaks for itself:
    https://factcheck.ge/en/story/35384-armenia-has-a-higher-gdp-per-capita-as-compared-to-georgia
    https://www.finchannel.com/world/georgia/73340-davit-sakvarelidze-armenia-has-a-higher-gdp-per-capita-as-compared-to-georgia

    BTW, I noticed that you did not respond to my post about Porky’s thievery and criminal investigations. One does not eve need to wonder why.

    • Replies: @AP
  177. AP says:
    @Seraphim

    You don’t know what Sarmatism was.

    Szlachta believed they were descended from Sarmatians. At that time it was erroneously believed that Sarmatians had been a Turkic people, like Turks, Tatars, and Khazars (they were actually an Irannic people). Orlyk, thinking like a Pole, emphasized the Khazar origins of the Zaporozhians in order to make them equal to the Polish szlachta.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  178. AP says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Poland was used by the EU as a shop window. A lot of money was invested there.

    And Belarus has been heavily subsidized by Russia. Poland and Belarus were about equally wealthy in 1990, when Poland chose the West and Belarus chose Russia. Which nation is wealthier now, Poland or Belarus?

    Here is a hint:

    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.PP.CD?locations=PL-BY

    In 1990 they were about the same. In 2018 Poland’s GDP PPP per capita was $32,000. Belarus’ was $20,000.

    If you really want a comparison, Georgia and Armenia are neighbors. Neither has much in the way on natural resources. Georgia has an advantage of sea exit, whereas Armenia is landlocked. Georgia was ruled by various anti-Russian maidanistas since Saakashvili, whereas Armenia maintained close connections with Russia and its economic block. Net result speaks for itself

    Ukraine borders EU. Neither Georgia nor Armenia do. If Ukraine were in the Caucuses you might have had a point.

    BTW, I noticed that you did not respond to my post about Porky’s thievery and criminal investigations. One does not eve need to wonder why.

    I stated very clearly that Poroshenko was voted out of office because he didn’t fix Ukraine’s corruption.

    • Replies: @annamaria
    , @annamaria
  179. Seraphim says:
    @AP

    I know what ‘Sarmatism’ was, thank you. To my knowledge Szlachta never claimed a Khazar descent, whereas Orlyk emphatically did, boasting about it. If he wanted just to ingratiate himself with the Szlachta he would have claimed simply a ‘Sarmatian’ descent (although he was a Czech).

    • Replies: @AP
  180. Pandour says: • Website
    @Commentator Mike

    Geiger is not qualified to comment on the Jasenovac issue.His primary focus has been the history of the German minority in Yugoslavia in WW II and post-war.He is a senior member of the Croatian Institute of History and is a mainstream historian who has totally ignored the works of independent historians and researchers such as Vladimir Mrkoci,,Nikola Pilić,Igor Vukić,Roman Leljak and others who have totally demolished the myth of 83.000 alleged victims of Jasenovac.One of the most recent studies to debunk this figure is the book Mit o Jasenovcu,-The Jasenovac Myth,by Roman Leljak,2018,based solely on documentation from archives in Belgrade.Geiger is playing it safe because he knows that if he stated the facts,his career would be finished and he would be demonized and soon be without a job.A key factor in understanding the situation in Croatia is the fact that the Communist nomenklatura in Croatia has never left power and are in fact Yugoslav nationalists who never wanted an independent Croat state.These traitors have the support of the international community-need I go on.To close,why such a fixation on Jasenovac-if insurgents killed thousands of citizens in attacks on trains,bridges and traffic routes and murdered thousands of peaceful citizens,should not those responsible if captured be placed in concentration camps.Fifty per cent of Boer children perished in British concentration camps,not to mention blacks,in a colonialist escapade-how come no one is demonizing the British for this fact alone,not to mention other imperialist crimes on foreign territory.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  181. Gerard2 says:
    @peterAUS

    Not…one….word….about….genuine…Ukrainian……nationalists.
    Not oligarchs, not Galician extremists, but simply Ukrainian nationalists.

    Ukrainian nationalism isn’t a a coherent ideology or even an ideology at all. It isn’t even much if any of an historical issue…..it’s more a self-loathing state of mind plus a form of dysentery and Hepatitis C and Measles….. with some sex-trafficking element and economic and social collapse thrown in………in which most of all the main protagonists are heavily, hypocritically connected to Russia

    At “best” it is just a scumbag form of anti-Russianism funded by the State Department and Poland…….that is all.

    Literally , in several centuries there hasn’t even been ONE assassination attempt on a Tsar/Russia under the name of Ukrainian “nationalism”

  182. Gerard2 says:
    @Malla

    Russians, Russian hatred for Germans, Chinese & Korean hatred for the Japanese, Indian hatred for the British or the Chinese,

    These are absurdly false comparisons. Russians and Germany have good to excellent trade relations, Germany invests in Russia….likewise with China/Japan/Korea…or the Indians with the British ( plus plenty of immigration from India to UK, and obviously the Russians in Germany or who just frequently visit there.

    To compare it with the dumb lunatic Ukrop behaviour (e.g importing overpriced american coal when you are abundant in it, and are bordered on both sides by neighbouring states abundant in it…..is retarded…….not to mention “rejecting ” Russian gas…buy buying Russian gas via a third EU party at much higher price

  183. Some people would rather stick to their delusions than face reality.

    Some aren’t even people, like Ukies (not to be confused with Ukrainians, who are human).

  184. annamaria says:
    @AP

    “Ukraine borders EU. Neither Georgia nor Armenia do. If Ukraine were in the Caucuses you might have had a point.”
    — The point was the cooperation of Armenia with Russain Federation and non-cooperation of Georgia and Ukraine. Another point was the poverty of natural resources in Armenia as compared to the resources-blessed Ukraine.

    “Poroshenko was voted out of office because he didn’t fix Ukraine’s corruption.”
    — Did not he represent corruption? And how Ukraine’s corruption can be “fixed” by the human-size doll Zelensky who is a property of Israeli-Ukrainian “dealer” Kolomoisky?

    Mr. Kolomoisky is currently under FBI investigation for his financial fraud of biblical proportions: “One of the biggest financial scandals of the 21st century:” https://www.occrp.org/en/investigations/oligarchs-weaponized-cyprus-eranch-of-ukraines-largest-bank-to-send-5-billion-abroad

    … a loss to the state of at least $5.5 billion. This is 33 percent of the population’s deposits … [and] 40 percent of our country’s monetary base. …

    The system allowed billions of dollars to be pumped through the PrivatBank accounts, which were held in Cyprus by offshore companies. This account is based on a forensic audit by Kroll, the U.S.-based corporate investigation and risk consulting firm.

    The data also revealed how Kolomoisky’s Ukrainian gas station empire may have played a crucial role in the scheme. Ukraine nationalized PrivatBank in December 2016, saddling taxpayers with a $5.9 billion bailout. The nationalization was widely supported by the international community, including the IMF, the European Union, and the United States, which called it a “milestone in economic reform and the fight against corruption.”

    You see, the US (IMF, EU) have been supporting Kolomoisky’s private account to “fight against corruption.” As a result, Ukraine needs to find $ 5.9 billion (more than 40% of Ukraine’s monetary base) to pay back the “supporters.” Guess, who is going to pay and what will be left of the country after the repayment.

  185. AP says:
    @Seraphim

    Yes, but by claiming descent from Khazars he was equalizing his people with Polish szlachta (both therefore being Turkic).

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  186. annamaria says:
    @AP

    By the way, Mr. Kolomoisky is also famous for his financial support for the self-proclaimed neo-Nazi in Ukraine. You know, Babi Yar and similar holo-biz trifles. But the Wall Street Journal (of Zionists) loves, loves, Kolomoisky.

  187. Seraphim says:
    @AP

    I gather that you are inclined to accept my hypothesis that the Szlachta descend from the Khazars, after their ‘mysterious’ disappearance.
    But still, Orlyk glamorized Khmelnitsky who ‘liberated the Zaporozhian Host and the oppressed Ruthenian [Rossiaca] people from Polish servitude’. The ‘Ukrainian’ nationalism has its origin in the Hetmanate of Khmelnitsky and its fight against Poland and its ambiguous relations with Muscovy. The ‘Khazar origin’ was put forward by Ukrainian Cossack chroniclers in order to distinguish their ‘Ukraine’ from Muscovy and ‘Ukrainians’ from Russians. There is scholarly consensus that the Ukrainian Chronicles influenced the formation of modern ‘Ukrainian’ identity. They did not claim any continuity with Kievan Rus. Galician ‘Ukrainianism’ is based on the claim of continuity of Kievan Rus in Galicia as opposed to the ‘pretentions’ of Muscovy.

    • Replies: @AP
  188. @Pandour

    Pandour,

    The Balkans are not unique in terms of ethnic strife between racially close populations, as we note form reading UR about suchlike among subcontinentals in Kashmir, the Semites in Palestine, etc., although the causes may be more specific.

    In wars atrocities have been committed by all sides throughout history, but whether some of those from a long gone past are relevant to today’s political problems is debatable. I doubt anybody today much hates Julius Caesar or Genghis Khan for whatever they did to their victims, or maybe some still do harbour such grudges, but most Indians still hate viscerally Alexander the Great to this very day and all because he failed, but had the audacity to try, to conquer them.

    Unfortunately the atrocities committed on all sides in the region of ex-Yugoslavia are still fresh and some of those disputes still not fully resolved while history marches on, so they could still have some relevance and implications for future developments. No doubt the Boers hate the Brits but that is not really very relevant as the British are no longer a factor for them in South Africa, other than perhaps refusing immigration visas to many of them to escape their deadly situation, but then to what – a darkening Britain?

    Looking from a distance, those Balkan people are closer to each other racially, culturally, linguistically, etc. than many other peoples in the world who live peacefully together, as say the Belgians or the Swiss. The same would apply to the rival sides in Ulster who sometimes live only a street away. But yes I know sometimes one can’t even tolerate the people from the next town or village, or even the next street as in the case of Northern Ireland.

    • Replies: @Pandour
  189. AP says:
    @Seraphim

    I gather that you are inclined to accept my hypothesis that the Szlachta descend from the Khazars, after their ‘mysterious’ disappearance.

    No, it was a strange fantasy by the szlachta. There is no evidnce of their having widespread Turkic deep ancestry.

    But still, Orlyk glamorized Khmelnitsky who ‘liberated the Zaporozhian Host and the oppressed Ruthenian [Rossiaca] people from Polish servitude’. The ‘Ukrainian’ nationalism has its origin in the Hetmanate of Khmelnitsky and its fight against Poland and its ambiguous relations with Muscovy.

    Correct.

    The ‘Khazar origin’ was put forward by Ukrainian Cossack chroniclers in order to distinguish their ‘Ukraine’ from Muscovy and ‘Ukrainians’ from Russians.

    No. It was put forth to equalize themselves with the Polish szlachta, to be their peers. “Szlachta are descended from Sarmatians, we are descended from the Sarmatians’ Khazar cousins.”

    It was a very Early Modern “Polish” way of conceptualizing the world. It shows that even in the early 18th century, a couple generations after Pereyaslav, people from Ukraine were still thinking like Poles.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  190. Seraphim says:
    @AP

    I would have little doubts that the motley crew of the Cossacks wanted to mimic the Szlachta and get the same privileges. ‘Sarmatism’ was meant to differentiate the Polish-Lituanian ‘nobles’ from their Russian serfs.
    In fact the ancient Sarmatians (Sarmatae, Sauromatae; Σαρμάται, Σαυρομάται)/Scythians were themselves a sort of Cossack type society (endemic in frontier lands/’ukraines’) and certainly were of mixed ethnic origin (Turks, Iranians, Thracians, Getae, Celts).

    • Replies: @AP
  191. AP says:
    @Seraphim

    ‘Sarmatism’ was meant to differentiate the Polish-Lituanian ‘nobles’ from their Russian serfs.

    Also and equally from Polish serfs.

    In fact the ancient Sarmatians (Sarmatae, Sauromatae; Σαρμάται, Σαυρομάται)/Scythians were themselves a sort of Cossack type society (endemic in frontier lands/’ukraines’) and certainly were of mixed ethnic origin (Turks, Iranians, Thracians, Getae, Celts).

    Studies indicate they were basically Indo-European Irannic people. Their contemporaries described them as being light-skinned blondes or redheads.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  192. Pandour says: • Website
    @Commentator Mike

    The recent wars in Yugoslavia were the result of attempts by the Serbian leadership to create Greater Serbia with the aid of the Serbianized so-called Yugoslav Army.The Serbs inherited the entire arsenal of the Yugoslav Army.Croatia was basically a Serbian colony from 1945. on,just as from 1918. on.Most of the earnings from tourism went to Belgrade and 65 per cent of the uniformed police in Zagreb,the Croat capital,were Serbs,as were 90 per cent of the secret police,for example.In Kosovo,although Albanians comprised 90 per cent of the population,of 48 state firm managers 43 were Serbs and not one Albanian.Aside from killing thousands of civilians during the Serb-Jugo army occupation of nearly a third of Croatia,thousands of civilians were killed by Serb air strikes and shelling.Croats did not set foot on Serbian territory or shell Serbian cities.It may interst you to know that Croatia in 1991. had no combat aircraft.Serb forces in Bosnia committed 90 per cent of the atrocities there.That alone should speak volumes.In Kosovo 11,000 Albanians were murdered-the Serbs tried to cover up the killings by exhuming the bodies to hide the evidence.Hundreds of bodies were placed in containers which were dumped into the Danube,for.The international community,for political reasons,absolved Serbia for launching three wars of aggression.The bottom line is this-the Serbs have put the devil behind the wheel since 1912 and the ride is not over yet.Croat independence was inevitable,as was the implosion of the Frankenstein-like Serb-ruled entity called Yugoslavia.Had the Serbs not mass-murdered and expelled the German and Hungarian minority in Vojvodina in 1944. and after,Vojvodina today would probably not be a part of Serbia.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  193. @Pandour

    Yea, yea, we’ve heard all of these canards, dutifully spread by Western MSM. That’s part of the reason why if NYT or WP says that 2×2=4, you begin to doubt even that.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  194. Seraphim says:
    @AnonFromTN

    You certainly mean Western BSM! The ‘Pandours’ swallowed it by truckloads. It’s their invention anyway (the ‘Greater Serbia’ BS).

  195. Seraphim says:
    @AP

    More recent studies indicate that Yamnaya Culture (the Kurgan Culture), supposedly the font of ‘Blond, Indo-European, Aryan race’ was rather basically Uralo-Altaic, Turkic.
    From Wikipedia: “The genetic basis of a number of physical features of the Yamnaya people were ascertained by the ancient DNA studies conducted by Haak et al. (2015), Wilde et al. (2014) and Mathieson et al. (2015): they were genetically tall (phenotypic height is determined by both genetics and environmental factors), overwhelmingly dark-eyed (brown), dark-haired and had a skin colour that was moderately light, though somewhat darker than that of the average modern European. Despite their pastoral lifestyle, there was little evidence of lactase persistence”.
    “The people of the Yamnaya culture were likely the result of a genetic admixture between the descendants of Eastern European hunter-gatherers and people related to hunter-gatherers from the Caucasus”.
    Herodotus relays the information that the Sauromatai were the offspring of marriages between the Amazones and young ‘Scythian’ males.

    • Replies: @AP
    , @Daniel.I
  196. AP says:
    @Seraphim

    More recent studies indicate that Yamnaya Culture (the Kurgan Culture)

    Scythians and Sarmatians existed over a thousand years later (Yamnaya culture lasted until 2600 BC, Scythians appeared 900 BC). DNA analysis indicates that Scythians Sarmatians were Europeans:

    https://www.marres.education/alans.htm#dna

    Today, it is increasingly clear that Scythians and so Alans and Sarmatians had the Y-DNA haplogroup R1a. Archaeological remains of an old Sarmatian skeleton in Nadezhdinka, Volga Steppes, Samara Russia dated 380-200 bce is R1a1a1b2a2a-Z2123. (51)

    We have 5 sequences from ancient Scythians. Three are R1a1a1b, one R1b1a and one Q1a. (52)

    Most DNA from burial grounds in South Russia is R1a1a, only in six human skeletons from burial mounds in the Don region north of the Caucasus from late Neolithic time have G2, in depth has not been tested.

    Wiki about Scythian appearance:

    In artworks, the Scythians are portrayed exhibiting European traits.[116] In Histories, the 5th-century Greek historian Herodotus describes the Budini of Scythia as red-haired and grey-eyed.[116] In the 5th century BC, Greek physician Hippocrates argued that the Scythians have purron (ruddy) skin.[116][117] In the 3rd century BC, the Greek poet Callimachus described the Arismapes (Arimaspi) of Scythia as fair-haired.[116][118] The 2nd century BC Han Chinese envoy Zhang Qian described the Sai (Saka) as having yellow (probably meaning hazel or green), and blue eyes.[116] In Natural History, the 1st century AD Roman author Pliny the Elder characterises the Seres, sometimes identified as Iranians or Tocharians, as red-haired and blue-eyed.[116][119] In the late 2nd century AD, the Christian theologian Clement of Alexandria says that the Scythians were fair-haired.[116][120] The 2nd century Greek philosopher Polemon includes the Scythians among the northern peoples characterised by red hair and blue-grey eyes.[116] In the late 2nd or early 3rd century AD, the Greek physician Galen declares that Sarmatians, Scythians and other northern peoples have reddish hair.[116][121] The fourth-century Roman historian Ammianus Marcellinus wrote that the Alans, a people closely related to the Scythians, were tall, blond and light-eyed.[122] The 4th century bishop of Nyssa Gregory of Nyssa wrote that the Scythians were fair skinned and blond haired.[123]

    Wiki about Sarmatians:

    In the late 2nd or early 3rd century AD, the Greek physician Galen declared that Sarmatians, Scythians and other northern peoples had reddish hair.[32] They are said to owe their name (Sarmatae) to it.[33]

    Kalash in Pakistan are not closely related to Scythians/Sarmatians but belong to a very ancient and isolated west Eurasian group (many have R1A haplogroup). Some of them might be phenotypically like the Sarmatians. The bottom ones look dark but the ones on top match the light eyes, red hair and ruddy skin described by Greeks or Romans:

    Here also:

    • Replies: @AP
  197. I don’t want to get into a mud slinging match but do you think Dalmatia and Istria would be part of Croatia today if the Italians weren’t expelled from there just like the Germans from Vojvodina? But I guess you’d say it’s not the Croats fault as they didn’t run Yugoslavia, so it was the Serbs who kicked out the long settled Italians from Croatia. So they did the Croats a favour. And it was not in Serbia’s interest to allow Albanian refugees from Enver Hoxa to settle in Kosovo and multiply like rats, but the communist Croat dictator Tito certainly encouraged both (OK, there is some doubt as to whether Tito was a Croat at all and various conspiracy theories circulate, but still that’s how he presented himself and was so accepted). And the Serbs claim all the natural resources from Serbia were exploited mostly in the interest of Slovenes and Croats.

    It does seem best that those nations should be separated but then there’s the questions of where the borders should be drawn, and in the 1990s they used the administrative republican borders drawn up by communist Croat Tito and his lackeys, and not genuine ethnic borders. There’s also the question of who deserves to be expelled from where, or invited back if they were expelled. How about those Italians from the Croatian coast for starters? The thing is everybody there has a “greater” project and now the “Greater Albania” one is on the table.

    I can’t disagree with everything you said but nobody is clean there and least of all the Croats.

    • Replies: @Pandour
  198. Pandour says: • Website
    @Commentator Mike

    The population of Dalmatia was Croatian,aside from a small number of Italians in the city of Zadar.The majority of the population of Istra was Croatian or Slovenian,but after the treaty of Rapallo in 1920. it was handed over to the Italians who began a systematic campaign of Italianisation,including the Italianisation of Croat names and the plowing under of cemeteries with Croatian headstones.Tito was a Stalinist,the most ardent in Europe and the fiercest opponent of any independent Croat state-God gave people two ears and one mouth,but it is obvious that this concept is alien to you, or as the Chinese proverb goes,man must have big ears,but small mouth.I simply cannot understand someone who cannot grasp the concept of tyranny of one nation over another,in this case,others.The Albanians were and are the indigenous inhabitants of Kosovo-during the short-lived Serbian rule there in the Middle Ages,the Albanians were also Christians and the majority of Serb churches and monasteries were built in Albanian towns and villages,who guarded and looked after them.The Albanians are perfectly justified in asking for a joint Albanian state-the problem is that the international community will never allow it.Multiplying like rats-lovely phraseology-to you human beings other than Serb murderers and ethnic cleansers are rats..The Serbs from 1912. not just in Kosovo but Albania murdered literally hundreds of thousands of Albanians and expelled hundreds of thousands and colonized hundreds of thousands of Serbs.You are on the wrong side of history and there is something definitively wrong with your moral compass-this is my last word on the matter.Life is too short for doing someones homework,particularly if he chooses to ignore facts which have been clearly documented decades ago.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  199. @Pandour

    Pandour,

    Of course there were some Albanians living in Kosovo before the state of Yugoslavia was established but many moved in as refugees from Albania proper under Enver Hoxa. And it is a fact that they multiplied however I described, and the same fate is awaiting Europe from its immigrant newcomers who reproduce at similar rates greater than the Europeans. The entire Third World are multiplying like rats too, so good luck keeping them at bay.

    And if you’re not familiar with it, it was the Kosovar Albanians who opened the immigrant route through the Balkans in 2014, planned it, tested it, and advertised it to all their muslim brethren throughout the world:

    https://blogactiv.eu/blog/2015/02/16/the-mass-exodus-of-kosovo-albanians/

    Everyone was wondering why the Kosovar exodus to Hungary through Serbia was happening but whatever reasons were offered was complete bullshit; they were being paid by Soros and company to open the Balkan route for all the immigrants to soon follow, even if unbeknown to themselves what they were being used for.

    Tito was a Stalinist only until the Informbureau split from Stalin, after that the two were bitter enemies.

    Everyone sees in history whatever they want to see. I may as well turn to studying the conflict between India and Pakistan and see if they have any more sense than you lot down there in the Balkans but I doubt it. And thank those Kosovar Albanians if you’re seeing any Pakis, Afghanis and assorted Arabs on your streets these days, because they showed them the way.

  200. Pandour says: • Website

    You cannot even get your chronology right,never mind the facts.For one,the historian Noel Malcolm writes that in 1912 when Kosovo came under Serbian control the Orthodox Serb population was at less than 25 per cent of the entire population,which overstates the Serb presence.According to the 1921 population census of the Kingdom of the Serbs,Croats and Slovenes 329,502 inhabitants of Kosovo were Muslims,or 75,1 per cent.What does the Soviet -Tito rift in 1948 have to do with the fact that Tito fought for a communist Yugoslavia and against any independent Croat state up to that date and in WW II.Soviets trained the Yugo communist secret police the OZNA,which was modeled after the Soviet NKVD.What does the mass exodus of Albanians from Kosovo,an economically depressed area for decades,have to do with anything I wrote- you suggest as if I approve of it,or the mass arrival of Pakistanis ,Arabs,Afghans,Africans and others into Europe,which I never touched upon.Did you finish elementary school.Albanians responsible for the influx of non-Europeans into Europe…you cant be serious.In 2010 27,000 Pakistanis were living in Norway,in 2006 there were approximately 50,000 to 60,000 Pakistanis in Greece,etc.I just love your view of history-the facts do not matter.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  201. @Pandour

    Of course there were still many muslims in Kosovo in 1912 when Serbia liberated it as it had been under Ottoman rule for 500 years and there were still some Turks left there, as well as even some Egyptians, and anyway Turks had also brought a lot of Albanians into the region during their occupation.

    Again, of course there were some Pakistanis in Greece in the early 2000s, but since the Kosovar Albanians opened up the Balkan route through to Western Europe in 2014, probably about a million of their Muslim brothers have taken it:

    https://www.infomigrants.net/en/post/15005/changing-journeys-migrant-routes-to-europe

    If you think that it was just a coincidence that suddenly Kosovar Albanians started going en masse through Serbia to Hungary in 2014, after they were each paid cash to do it and even though they were almost immediately being returned back to Kosovo, you are naive.

    • Replies: @Pandour
    , @peterAUS
    , @annamaria
  202. AP says:
    @AP

    Iranians are heavily mixed with Arabs and Turks who conquered their lands. But sometimes one sees an Iranian face that looks a lot like those of the Afghan mountain people.

    Here is the infamous Mohammad-Ali Ramin:

    Looks like he could be a brother of the girl I showed before:

    Sarmatians and Scythians probably look a lot like him, and the Amazons like the Afghan mountain girl. It is not terribly uncommon to see such faces among Slavs too.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  203. Seraphim says:
    @AP

    Khazars are described by an Arab chronicler like that:
    “As to the Khazars, they are to the north of the inhabited earth towards the 7th clime, having over their heads the constellation of the Plough. Their land is cold and wet. Accordingly their complexions are white, their eyes blue, their hair flowing and predominantly reddish, their bodies large and their natures cold. Their general aspect is wild.”
    But another one (Istakhri) say:
    “The Khazars do not resemble the Turks. They are black haired, and are of two kinds, one called the Kara-Khazars [Black Khazars], who are swarthy verging on deep black as if they were a kind of Indian, and a white kind [Ak-Khazars] who are strikingly handsome”.
    Clearly a mixed ‘race’ as you may expect in ‘Cossack’ type societies. It was a common feature of the steppes ‘ethnicities’: White Huns/Black Huns, White Bulgars/Black Bulgars, White Cumans/Black Cumans…
    Interesting is the reference to Indians. Were they Gypsies?

  204. Daniel.I says:
    @Seraphim

    Don’t be retarded.

    If Yamnaya was “basically Uralo-Altaic, Turkic”, then how do you explain the red hair and green eyes on the Tarim Mummies ?

    And what population would be the source of light hair and eyes, in your view ?

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  205. Pandour says: • Website
    @Commentator Mike

    It was amusing conversing with you.Everything indicates that you are virtually a full-blown psychopath,to say the least.Despite having not even a basic knowledge of the most rudimentary subject matter,you desire to the better man at all costs and you are a pathological liar.,to mention just some traits.Naturally,murder to you is not murder.

    • LOL: FB
  206. peterAUS says:
    @Commentator Mike

    ….. you are virtually a full-blown psychopath…

    ….you are a pathological liar….

    Pot starting to boil.

    Waiting for spillover.

    • LOL: Commentator Mike
    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  207. annamaria says:
    @Commentator Mike

    Serbia was the playground for solving the “humanitarian” problems by dropping bombs with depleted uranium. The same”humanitarian” justifications were used in Iraq and Libya and Syria.

    Yugoslavia used to be the gem of Europe until NATO & Clinton have a better idea of implementing a mass slaughter there — all in the name of human rights, of course. The ensuing farming of organs, sex trafficking, and banditism have been “unnoticed” by the always “humanitarian” MSM. https://consortiumnews.com/2016/08/24/the-bogus-humanitarian-war-on-serbia/

    The FBI failed to find a single mass grave and went home. The Spanish forensic team did the same… In 2008, the prosecutor of the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia, Carla Del Ponte, revealed that she had been pressured not to investigate NATO’s crimes. …

    The Serbian city of Nis had just been sprayed with American cluster bombs, killing women, old people and children in an open market and a hospital.

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/nato-s-war-of-aggression-in-yugoslavia-who-are-the-war-criminals/2144

    Thirty percent [30%] of those killed in the bombings are children. In addition to the use of cluster bombs, the Alliance [US & NATO] is waging a “low-intensity nuclear war” using toxic radioactive shells and missiles containing depleted uranium. … According to a recent scientific report, “the first signs of radiation on children including herpes on the mouth and skin rashes on the back and ankles” have been observed in Yugoslavia since the beginning of the bombings. …

    The list of crimes allegedly committed by NATO leaders includes: “wilful killing, wilfully causing great suffering or serious injury to body or health, extensive destruction of property,… employment of poisonous weapons [implying radioactive fall-out] or other weapons to cause unnecessary suffering, wanton destruction of cities, towns, or villages, or devastation not justified by military necessity.”

    “Serb prisoners were stripped of their organs in Kosovo war:” https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1584751/Serb-prisoners-were-stripped-of-their-organs-in-Kosovo-war.html

    • Agree: AnonFromTN, yurivku
    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  208. @peterAUS

    Yeah, innit just great. There’s nothing I can tell that hasn’t been heard already. Same on all channels. What’s the point. I really wish them all well.

    • Replies: @FB
    , @Pandour
  209. @annamaria

    annamaria,

    Can’t use the agree button so yes, agreed.

  210. FB says: • Website
    @Commentator Mike

    Hey Mike…

    Just came upon this exchange between you and this hyperventilanting squawk box ‘Pandour’…

    LOL…you dismantled this goofball with such aplomb that a tip o’ the hat is in order…

    Funniest moment…the gerbil-brain calls you a ‘psychopath’ and all manner of names before running away with tear-filled eyes…

    Reminds me of junior high when the shlump that gets the snot kicked out of him runs away hurling insults from a safe distance…LOLOLOL

    • Replies: @Pandour
    , @Commentator Mike
  211. Pandour says: • Website
    @FB

    That is Orwellian inversion at its best.You are projecting your own total moral and intellectual idiocy.In the final analysis,the laugh is on you and your idiot pal as you are semi-literate at best.The two of you are probably fat slobs who cant run more than 10 metres without getting winded.I used to box-10 fights,no losses and could probably take the both of you out within a minute.I am a Croatian veteran who was badly wounded-my leg was shattered by an AP round on the Kupres front.We had elements of two armored corps against us-dozens of tanks and APCs,not to mention air strikes-we had two tanks.You and your pal are infantile losers not worthy of the name of men.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  212. @FB

    FB,

    Thanks. Whatever. Don’t know what this guy is doing on UR trying to engage in intellectual debate . Another know nothing Mr. Know it all. He should be in a mud wrestling pit by his won confession.
    I could keep on needling him but never mind. He should go outdoors, take some deep breaths and punch some trees with his bare fists if he reads something he doesn’t like instead of trying to construct a half intelligent answer. Or bang his head on the wall.

    • Replies: @FB
  213. Pandour says: • Website
    @Commentator Mike

    The death toll in the Serbian excursion into Kosovo in 1999 has registered 11,000 Albanians in 529 confirmed mass graves.Of the 2,000 Serbs and non-Albanians killed the vast majority were killed after the expulsion of Serb forces.From 129 mass graves up to just November 1999. the bodies of 2,108 Albanians were exhumed.At least 90 per cent of 1.5 million Kosovo Albanians were expelled from their homes.The list of those killed is a nominal list including ages and sexes.In the village of Meja Serb forces executed 377 Albanians in a single were day in April 1999.If not for the NATO intervention the number of massacred Albanians would have run into the tens of thousand.Today the term genocide is freely bandied about,but it definitively applies to the Serb massacres of the Albanian population in Kosovo and Albania during the Balkan Wars of 1912-1913. which qualifies as the first genocide in Europe.The Carnegie Endowment for International Peace in its report on the Balkan Wars in 1914 writes-Houses and entire villages were turned into ashes,the unarmed and innocent population massacred-unbelievable acts of violence,looting and brutality of every kind-these are the means which the Serb-Montenegrin army employed-and still employs,with the aim of changing the ethnic character of areas inhabited exclusively by Albanians-.That was just the beginning,from 1912 to 1990 Serb forces by conservative estimate,murdered 200,000 Serbs in Kosovo and Albania.During the period 1918-1921 alone,in peacetime,the Serb regime killed 12,346 Albanians in Kosovo and jailed 22,126.From 1919 to 1940 the Serb regime expelled 215,412 Albanians from Kosovo to Turkey.To cut to the chase-you bewail the fate of several hundred Serbs killed during the NATO bombing,but make no mention of the thousands of Croat civilians killed by Serb bombing and artillery or massacred during the occupation of nearly one-third of Croatia by the Serbs or the fact that 90 per cent of the atrocities carried out in Bosnia were committed by the Serbs-the last is the conclusion of an U.N. Commission-which has been totally confirmed.It is no coincidence that the genesis of evil in Southeastern Europe ended where it began in 1912,in Kosovo.Linking the Kosovo issue to Iraq,Libya and Syria is the height of ignorance-a one -size- fits all to confirm your farcical ideological agenda.

  214. Pandour says: • Website

    PS -the above was intended for commentator Annamaria,not Mike-in his case,one might just as well try to describe colors to a blind man

    • Replies: @annamaria
    , @annamaria
  215. FB says:
    @Commentator Mike

    Actually I don’t believe this ‘Pandora’ clown is even Croatian…or has anything to do with South Slavs…

    Like I commented on the more recent Saker thread, in regards to that other impostor claiming to be a Serb…South Slavs are capable people with high vitality…they don’t throw hissy fits like this Pandora or the ‘syd.bgd’ over on that other thread…

    I would say this Pandora is some kind of Muslim, probably Albanian…

    As I stated before, my travels in Yugoslavia in the 1980s opened my eyes to what an amazing country that was…there is almost zero genetic and linguistic difference between Croats and Serbs…look at the genetic map of Europe…in both, the I1a haplogroup is dominant…and the other two main European haplogroups are also present…R1a1 [Slavic]…R1b1 [western European]…

    The Albanian genome is totally different, with the J haplogroup dominating…

    This clown Pandora should go over to the other thread and get into it with the Serb extremist ‘TheTotallyAnonymous’…whom you likewise dismantled…

    I merely brush these clowns off because I have seen what Yugoslavia was…a beautiful country ruined by a handful of extremists…with the imperialist powers pulling the strings…

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  216. peterAUS says:
    @Pandour

    I am a Croatian veteran who was badly wounded-my leg was shattered by an AP round on the Kupres front.We had elements of two armored corps against us-dozens of tanks and APCs,not to mention air strikes-we had two tanks.

    Wow…….

    Would you be so kind as to tell us a bit more about that?
    Please.

    .

    • Replies: @FB
    , @Pandour
  217. FB says:
    @peterAUS

    LOL…

    I’m wondering if his ‘boxing career’ in Albania was before or after his leg was ‘shattered’ during his imaginary battlefield ‘heroics’ in Croatia…?

    • Replies: @Pandour
  218. Pandour says: • Website
    @peterAUS

    Gladly-my unit was a special forces unit of the Croatian Army,Battalion-Bojna Frankopan,formed on July 29 1991.-The battalion commander,company commanders and a number of men were Croats who had served in the French Foreign Legion.The training was in accordance with Legion standards.After actions in Croatia the unit was rushed to Bosnia in April 1992. to halt the advance of mechanized Serb forces which threatened to strategically cut off Dalmatia.We held the line for some three weeks,being subjected to almost daily shelling,mortaring and tank fire from the surrounding heights.During that time we had several offensive actions,including the clearing of the village of Zlo Selo-we caught the Serbs at breakfast and cleared the village.On May 4th my company was called to close the approaches to the Serb stronghold in Ravno.After an all-night march we reached the Ravno road and set up an ambush destroying an ammo truck and two vehicles.We lost radio contact with the Ravno assault group and should have pulled out at 0600 but held the position to 1000-it was the company cos. call as he did not want to leave the main group in the lurch.We eventually became surrounded and had to fight our way out.Of course,the Serbs had set up ambushes along our bug-out route by then.At around 1400 hours we were ambushed while at the base of a hill-the man to my left was hit.To my right I could see several dozen Serbs and Yugo Army advancing on us.We ran towards our lines and all except me eventually made it.A round sliced my right thigh in two and I was taken prisoner.Then the fun began-they stripped off my pants,bound my wrists and began dragging me across the rocky terrain,shredding my legs and back.After some 10 minutes a thug pulled out a dagger and sliced off my left ear and others kicked in my ribs so that I spat blood for days.That was just the prelude to 15 months of captivity which made Dantes Inferno look like Shangri-La.I should add that my twin brother,who had also served in the Legion,was wounded earlier while clearing the Kupres area-a bullet pierced his lung and one hit his leg.He was in the Legion and fought in Iraq and was in the other Special forces battalion-Zrinski-a lot of men died that day including female nurse Lilja Zrno who on her tiny back dragged out a number of wounded before being killed.

    • Replies: @FB
    , @peterAUS
  219. Pandour says: • Website
    @FB

    I am Croatian,not Albanian-not my fault if you cant read

  220. FB says:
    @Pandour

    So next time I see a one-eared guy with a limp, pushing a shopping cart full of empties in downtown Tirana…and screaming insults and threats at random passers-by…I will know it’s our friend ‘Pandora’…LOLOLOL

    • Replies: @Pandour
  221. Pandour says: • Website
    @FB

    Geography is definitively not your forte.I was born in Zagreb which is not in Kosovo,it is the capital of Croatia.I can trace my Croatian ancestry to the 14th century-my grandfather was the Secretary of the Croat NDH state president Nikola Mandić and one of my ancestors was a Bishop appointed by Pope Julius III on 2nd Dec. 1551 to head the Duvno diocese.I could give you my last name which would easily confirm everything I say,but you are definitively not worth the effort.And its not Pandora but Pandour a member of a regiment of Croatian light infantry in the Austrian Army in the 18th century.There is a line from that old Ray Stevens song-There is none so blind as he who will not see.One can only feel sorry for you.

    • Replies: @FB
    , @Simpleguest
  222. peterAUS says:
    @Pandour

    Wow……I mean……umph….
    ..”bug-out route” a? Hehe…it’s O.K.

    This is quite something:

    …A round sliced my right thigh in two and I was taken prisoner….

    ….they stripped off my pants,bound my wrists and began dragging me across the rocky terrain,shredding my legs and back.After some 10 minutes a thug pulled out a dagger and sliced off my left ear and others kicked in my ribs so that I spat blood for days…

    An armored piercing round (you sure it wasn’t cumulative type…?) sliced your right leg in a half, at the thigh level, after which you were dragged, beaten….etc.
    Wow…..

    That prison thing sounds interesting.

    Would you be so nice as to state the names of the commanding officers of the prison(s) you spent those 15 months in? Ranks and names. Should be easy. As, say, Lt. Col/Major Miksic. The names of the guards? Especially those guards that were creating that “Dantes Inferno”. Nicknames should suffice.As, say “Badza” or “Jovo”. You know how it works.
    Please.

    • Replies: @Pandour
  223. FB says: • Website
    @Pandour

    Geography…?

    Tirana is the capital of Albania…your likely country of origin…has nothing to do with Kosovo…

    As to your little fairy tale of having taken part in the Battle of Kupres…?

    Yeah, no…sorry amigo, no sale…your hysterics and hissy fits here are a sign of a weak man that is unable to exercise self control…you ain’t no soldier…

    French Foreign Legion…?

    LOLOLOL

    • Replies: @Pandour
  224. @Pandour

    “I was born in Zagreb which is not in Kosovo…”

    A Freudian slip detected.

    • LOL: FB
    • Replies: @Pandour
  225. @FB

    FB,

    Things have changed there. There was always some ethnic resentment there and each new conflict breeds more. Sure foreign powers played a great role in dismantling Yugoslavia for their own geopolitical and other reasons, like a test run for wrecking seven more countries as annamaria points out, but it’s like in a dog fight – you can try to get the dogs to fight but in the end they have to want to fight or there’d be no dog fight.

  226. Seraphim says:
    @Daniel.I

    How do you explain red hair on black people? How do you explain the red hair of the Edomites?
    The Tarim Basin is on the ‘Siberian Corridor’ and the Silk Road which were intensely circulated in both directions since time immemorial by pastoralists, peddlers, brigands and warriors, slaves, fugitives, vagrants.
    A possible source of light hair is the Fino-Ugric populations of northern Russia.
    And no, the mythical pagan ‘Aryan’ “Nordic Man” (read Germanic brigands, pirates, berserk, vikings) is not the founder of ‘European’ civilization, whatever the Madison Grants and Rosenbergs and ‘White nationalists/supremacists’ quixotic dreams.

    • Replies: @Daniel.I
  227. Daniel.I says:
    @Seraphim

    Esti prost ca noaptea

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  228. Pandour says: • Website
    @Simpleguest

    Where is the Freudian slip-I know nothing about your biography or roots,how can you comment mine.Tell me whats your ethnicity aside from stupid.You are too indolent to even read what I wrote during this discourse.If you realized what a ignoramus you were,you would never open your mouth to talk about serious subjects.

  229. Pandour says: • Website
    @FB

    At first glance I thought you wrote Priština-hence my answer.I did not proof read my comment.Are you just immature or ignorant-what does Albania have to do with the current discussion.At least have the courtesy to address concrete comments,which you have not even read.

    • Replies: @FB
  230. Pandour says: • Website
    @peterAUS

    I deem you to be intellectually and what is most terrifying morally damaged beyond repair.I hope for your sake I am wrong.My right thigh bone was severed in two and fortunately the bone did not pierce the flesh.The bone, to the amusement of doctors,fused naturally.The entry wound is barely visible,but I can put my finger into the exit wound up to two knuckles in my index finger.Here is,as briefly as possible, is only a PARTIAL AND INITIAL chronology of my 15 months in captivity-wounded May 5th, 1992.spent two days in Serb occupied Kupres,where the Serbian military police from Belgrade and paramilitaries brutalized and beat to death a Moslem civilian before my eyes.Taken to the old hospital in Knin converted to a prison by the Serb occupation forces-within some 20 minutes of my arrival they shot dead a Croat civilian in front of my cell-other horrors I will not dwell on.Sometime at the end of June I and some two dozen prisoners,in two APCs, belonging to the Serb military police in Drvar,at around 1100,to hide us from the Red Cross,were taken to the seat of the criminal Serb entity in Bosnia,Banja Luka.As was the standard Serb practice in transporting prisoners,they had to kneel while being beaten en route.An 18 year old Croat youth from Omiš,MAY GOD FORGIVE ME,I at present cannot remember his name,was beaten to death on top of me.We were all slated to be interned in the Stara Gradiška jail but all were in such bad shape-they looked like they had spent at least a decade in a medieval prison-they took us to the Banja Luka hospital.There we were beaten by Serb civilians and soldiers.The next day a Moslem civilian,Fikret Korenić,who was beaten beyond recognition even before his arrival in Banja Luka-his thighs looked like hamburger-died in the bed next to mine while lowering himself to relieve himself.

  231. Pandour says: • Website

    If ever there was an antechamber to hell,it was the Serb death camp in Omarska.This year,August 6th 2019 Serb inhabitants from Prijedor living in Belgrade erected a commemorative plaque to the Moslem-Croat victims reading reading -Da se nikada ne ponovi Omarska godina 1992.-komšije.Translation-May it never be repeated Omarska the year 1992.-your neighbors. By conservative estimate at least 700 hundred Moslems and Croats were murdered in the most hideous manner possible.Everything was designed to make life as intolerable as possible.If one went to the latrine he was beaten with cables while entering and exiting.At lunch.a few spoon-fulls of beans,macaroni or cabbage- the order would go out-eat.If you did not finish within 30 seconds you were beaten.Guards used to lay prisoners on their bellies for hours in the scorching sun and trod over them and kicked them for hours-if one looked a guard in the eyes they would slit their throat.They burned people alive.In the so-called Bijela kuća-White house,Serb guards beat to death over 200-dying men would lay in their own waste for days.I was a prisoner at the Manjača camp in 1992.On the night of 4th-5th August,around 0100 the surviving 1,200 inmates from Omarska in 32 buses arrived in Manjača.As was the standard Serb practice,the inmates had to kneel while being beaten with iron rods,ax handles and other implements.If one collapsed,the guards would jum on his chest cavity and finish him off-a regular practice which I witnessed.En route the guards gave some 20 inmates to the local Serb population who slaughtered them.The prisoners were forced to remain on their knees until around 0700.The guards dragged out six dead and four who were nearly dead.They proceeded to beat them with rifle butts,jump on their chests and then slit their throats and gouged out their eyes.Another 30 inmates were taken behind the main barracks and their throats were slit.In Manjača where I spent a month the guards would regularly kill prisoner in solitary.The inmates had to wash the blood off the walls before the arrival of the Red Cross delegation.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  232. FB says: • Website
    @Pandour

    Like I said, your war story is obviously a fairy tale…and you keep proving that with each word you write…

    I don’t have time for bullshitters…you answered none of Peter’s specific questions that would lend any credibility to your tale…instead you divert to a lot of nonsense that is already out there in the public domain…

    I also continue to note that your narrative is largely about Muslim ‘victims’…which again points to your being a Muslim…

    You’ve never seen anything resembling military combat…and have probably never even put on a uniform…

    Your hyperventilating tone and continued reference to generalities that are well known unmask you as a ridiculous wannabe…

    • Replies: @Pandour
  233. peterAUS says:
    @Pandour

    How to put this politely and in a civil manner here? I’ll try.

    You are so full of shit it seeps out of your nose and ears.

    I wouldn’t give a fuck about your deranged person here but for the fact you are doing a great disservice to the very people you are trying to emulate.

    I can just hope that one day some of those guys could stomp you head onto some curb, somewhere.

    The beauties of the Internet. All sorts can creep out of the woodwork.

    • Agree: FB
    • Replies: @Pandour
  234. Pandour says: • Website
    @FB

    You are past hope,past help and past care-when your obviously worthless and sadly deluded life comes to an end,I assure you that you will be in for a nasty surprise.

  235. Pandour says: • Website
    @peterAUS

    Who,pray tell,am I trying to emulate.I could easily point you to a story Croatian TV did on me and my brother shortly after my release in a POW exchange on July 31 1995,but I cant be bothered.Check out the list of generals who served in the HV and HVO and find out whose brother was wounded and captured by the Serbs.The beauties of the internet.Why such rage- try anger management,meds in your case definitively will not suffice.I wish you happy trails but it is obvious that the future does not hold that for you.

    • LOL: FB
    • Replies: @peterAUS
  236. annamaria says:
    @Pandour

    “Linking the Kosovo issue to Iraq, Libya and Syria is the height of ignorance – a one-size-fits all to confirm your farcical ideological agenda. … If not for the NATO intervention…”

    — Well. Considering your favorable mentioning of the NATO, I decided to look at the NATO intervention in Yugoslavia. https://www.commondreams.org/views/2019/03/24/killing-credibility-look-back-1999-nato-air-war-serbia#

    From 1992 to 1995, the Pentagon flew thousands of al-Qaeda mujahideen, often accompanied by US Special Forces, from Central Asia to Europe to reinforce Bosnian Muslims as they fought Serbs to gain their independence from the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia. … https://newint.org/features/2009/10/01/blowback-extended-version

    When the Bosnian war ended in 1995 the United States was faced with the problem of thousands of Islamist warriors on European soil. Many of them joined the burgeoning Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA), which mainly consisted of ethnic Albanian Kosovars from what was still southwestern Yugoslavia. … KLA fighters began to violently expel as many non-Albanians from Kosovo as they could. …

    The United States was initially very honest in its assessment of the KLA. Robert Gelbard, the US special envoy to Bosnia, called it “without any question a terrorist group.” The State Department accordingly added the KLA to its list of terrorist organizations in 1998. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/aug/14/usa.kosovo

    …there was no Serb ethnic cleansing of Albanian Kosovars until after NATO began mercilessly bombing Yugoslavia. The German government issued several reports confirming this. https://www.counterpunch.org/1999/04/24/internal-documents-from-germany-s-foreign-office-regarding-pre-bombardment-genocide-in-kosovo/

    While Serbs certainly did commit atrocities (especially after the ferocious NATO air campaign began), these were often greatly exaggerated by the Clinton administration and the US corporate mainstream media.

    … as many as 200,000 Serbs were forcibly expelled from the Krajina region of Croatia by that country’s US-trained military during Operation Storm in August 1995. … NATO warplanes deliberately bombed a building containing the headquarters of Serbian state television and radio in the middle of densely populated central Belgrade… An attack on central Belgrade hit hospital with a laser-guided “precision” bomb, obliterating an intensive care unit and destroying a children’s ward … https://www.theguardian.com/world/1999/may/21/balkans1

    Bridges were favorite targets of NATO bombing. An international passenger train traveling from Belgrade to Thessaloniki, Greece was blown apart by two missiles as it crossed over Grdelica gorge on April 12. Children and a pregnant woman were among the 15 people killed in the attack … On May 1, at least 24 civilians, many of them children, were killed when NATO warplanes bombed a bridge in Lužane… An ambulance rushing to the scene of the carnage was struck by a second bomb. On the sunny spring afternoon of May 30, a bridge over the Velika Morava River was bombed by low-flying German Air Force F-16 fighters while hundreds of local residents gathered nearby to celebrate an Orthodox Christian holiday. [What was so wrong about celebrating the Orthodox Christian holiday, “Pandour?”]

    … More than 164,000 Serbs fled or were forcibly driven from the Albanian-dominated province and by the summer of 2001 KLA ethnic cleansing had rendered Kosovo almost entirely Albanian, with just a few die-hard Serb holdouts living in fear and surrounded by barbed wire.

    The KLA soon expanded its war into neighboring Macedonia. Although NATO Secretary-General Lord Robertson called the terror group “murderous thugs,” the United States—now with George W. Bush as president—continued to offer its invaluable support.

  237. annamaria says:
    @Pandour

    https://tass.com/society/1024580

    The use of munitions containing depleted uranium during NATO’s 1999 bombing of Yugoslavia was an “ecocide on a planetary scale.”

    “It was clear that the war is over, that even one bomb is redundant, let alone two. However, those bombs were dropped for the sake of an in vivo experiment. … After that, Serbia has seen the highest rate of malicious tumors in Europe, with more than 30,000 people diagnosed with cancer in the first 10 years since the bombing. Between 10,000 and 18,000 of them died.”

    https://www.sbs.com.au/language/english/audio/nato-member-states-to-be-sued-for-1999-attack-on-serbia

    Between 10 and 15 tons of uranium have been dropped on the territory of then Yugoslavia (Serbia and Montenegro). The number of those ill with cancer is alarming. 2.5 percent of Serbia’s population is diagnosed with malignant diseases each year, i.e., 33,000 people. One child is diagnosed every day. Since 1999, the number of cancer patients has grown five times. The population is falling ill on a mass scale, especially in southern Serbia and in Kosovo and Metohija.

    After bombing the civilians in Serbia, the “Christian country” of the US continued the experiments with depleted uranium on the people of Iraq: https://www.mintpressnews.com/depleted-uranium-iraq-wars-legacy-cancer/193338/

    the rate of cancer in the country has skyrocketed … The culprit behind these health issues is depleted uranium, a byproduct of uranium enrichment.

    The United States also used depleted uranium against sovereign Syria: https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/02/14/the-united-states-used-depleted-uranium-in-syria/
    When seeing these pictures deformed and suffering children, think of the great “humanitarians” Clinton, Bush, Blair, and Obama: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/230829432_Depleted_Uranium_Is_it_potentially_involved_in_the_recent_upsurge_of_malignancies_in_populations_exposed_to_war_dust/figures?lo=1

    • Replies: @Pandour
  238. peterAUS says:
    @Pandour

    Listen….kid…….just stop. O.K?

    I can appreciate what you are trying to achieve here, but you are doing it WRONG.
    You can not fool people around here. Your effort is counter-productive.

    I get your need to do that and I can speculate about reasons. It’s O.K. It’s not O.K. to do it ..sloppy.
    You can’t just do a bit of Internet hopping and, on this site, expect from people to buy it.
    That’s for names, locations, dates.

    As for the description of events you “participated” in…this isn’t some high school forum. There are people who’ve been “there and then”. There are people who have relatives and friends who’ve been “then and there”. And there are people who, with ease, can do their own research today and find your claims falling apart.
    Do…not…..do….that.

    As for your style…do you really think that a hardened Croat veteran would write like that?

    Just stop.

    Advice: do your research well. WELL. Put yourself in the shoes of a man of your age and hop the Internet. I’d recommend transcripts from Hague as the best source. That’s for facts.
    For style, take a look at how veterans of that war talk about it. Hint: they do not, ever, say, among many things you have:
    “..you are projecting your own total moral and intellectual idiocy….”
    “…..I deem you to be intellectually and what is most terrifying morally damaged beyond repair..”
    And a vet from Roso’s unit to talk like that is just…..dumb.

    Next time you could:
    Pick a better online persona. I’d suggest a simple volunteer in the National Guard, from Zagreb, your age at the time. “Play” a battle around Karlovac. Simple skirmish where your platoon got cut of the main force.Fog of war. “Get” captured. Research WELL Omarska camp. “Play” you’ve been there.
    Simple.

    You are doing a great disservice to people who’ve really gone through all that. You demean their courage, effort, self-sacrifice, and suffering.
    Especially those who’ve gone through prisons and camps.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  239. @peterAUS

    peterAUS,

    Actually there is very little personal hatred and such animosity as expressed in hysterical posts by Pandour between the commanders of the opposing sides in that war in the 90’s. For example, Slobodan Praljak, the Croatian Herceg Bosna general who committed suicide in the court house in De Hague was very close friends with Radovan Karadzic and they used to visit each other’s homes with their families, even sleep over, and Karadzic was deeply shaken by the death of his buddy. Naser Oric was Milosevic’s personal bodyguard up to a short time before going over to Srebrenica to lead the muslims there. General Gotovina and some other Croat commanders and his former Foreign Legion comrades who left the Legion to lead units on the Serbian side have a lot of respect for each other and some still haven’t got bad words to say about each other. There are many more examples like this and even some cooperation, communication, and even helping each other out during the conflict. But then with some of the rank and file it may have been different.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  240. Seraphim says:
    @Daniel.I

    A boor is a boor (mîrlan) and a bore.
    But if your purpose is to make us laugh, please don’t refrain to ‘contribute’ your lights further. We need our moments of ‘comic relief’.

  241. peterAUS says:
    @Commentator Mike

    If you feel that Pandour here is bad you haven’t seen/heard/read anything yet.

    I’d just say that the topic you are pointing to is……….complicated.

    You won’t find any answers here.
    Or anywhere, for that matter. You are probably better off not knowing the answers. Like “abyss staring back to you”, “heart of darkness” and similar stuff. A smart person doesn’t go there.
    You just need to recognize it and deal with it accordingly.

    As for Oric, rank and file etc:

    A protected witness of the BiH Prosecutor’s Office “S-1” has said he saw Elfeta Veseli slitting Slobodan Stojanovic’s throat…

    “When we reached the Udric Hill, we met Naser Oric, who was the commander ….

    …He has said that at that moment the boy was 10-15 meters away from Oric and Kibe, and that Elfeta Veseli approached him and grabbed his head. ..

    “From a distance of approximately eight meters, I saw Elfeta holding child’s head, taking a knife and saying,” If I am a balinkura, he’s a Chetnik,” after which she pulled a knife under boy’s chin. Blood flowed, I turned my head away and heard gurgling, as if he wanted to say something. She pushed him away, and when he fell, he gave more signs of life. Someone then said that he was ‘finished’”, S-1 said,,,
    ..After the war Veseli moved to Italy and then to Switzerland…..She got 10 years….

    Hehe…you sure you haven’t got any such neighbors around you there?

    Of course, you can find thousands of similar, and much worse cases committed by all sides.

    My 2 cents anyway.

  242. @peterAUS

    peterAUS,

    The politics is complicated but any people can be like that anywhere – they slit their own kin’s throats over nothing. Murder in the family, neighbourhood, where doesn’t it happen? War just gives it added impetus. How dangerous and toxic, poisonous (as literally so) people can be even today in the so-called civilised west, you don’t have to read Agatha Christie stories:

    https://www.anonymousconservative.com/blog/on-strategies-for-dealing-with-narcissists-in-family-and-social-circles/

    Damn vicious and nasty. Oh they’re everywhere.And in some countries peace time is like warfare elsewhere.

  243. Pandour says: • Website

    I did my best to remain anonymous. I never wanted it to be about me.My bro,five minutes older,is a member of the Croatian parliament.Surely that is not too hard to confirm if one has a keyboard on his computer.He was a guest of honor at the NPD Congress in Germany in November 2018.Aside from fighting the Serbs,he fought the Muslims from Oct. 1992. to March 1994.Aside from other forces he was the commander of the Bosnian Croat forces- HVO- unit King Tomislav Brigade which had a Viking platoon comprised of volunteers from Western Europe-Scandinavia,Germany,etc.Write him a letter- aside from French, he speaks perfect English-and ask him if his younger bro was wounded and captured by Serb forces.If I am a liar and a fantasist,then I will be in the forefront of those slated for eternal damnation.I STAND BY EVERY WORD I WROTE and if people cannot even partially recognize that,then there is something severely lacking in their intellectual and moral compass.

  244. Seraphim says:
    @peterAUS

    A reminiscence from those years. It happened in an RSL Club in Oz. I happened to sit at a table with a nice guy happily downing a few schooners. Somehow, the discussion turned towards the situation in Yugoslavia and I expressed some sympathy for the Serbs. All of a sudden the nice guy started shouting: ‘kill the Orthodox’. As it turned out, he was a Croat. People looked at him puzzled and he calmed down, mumbling some perfunctory excuses.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  245. peterAUS says:
    @Seraphim

    Yep. The “thing” came out a bit, a?

    The guys who did the “incursion” into Tito’s Yugoslavia in ’72 came from here. Quite a feat.

    Plenty of guys, from both sides, got involved in Balkans affairs in 90’s too.
    Hehe…wasn’t Captain Dragan from 4th/19th Prince of Wales’s Light Horse?

    When the bombing by NATO was going on in ’99, one could see how local Serbs felt about it. I haven’t seen such a reaction anywhere else.

    I’ve kept contact with some of them, both sides, here. And in Balkans. Or ..hehe…so I say.

    Rule No.1: think before saying anything in person….haha…. When writing edit and keep editing.
    Think and edit carefully, that is.

    • Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous
  246. @peterAUS

    The guys who did the “incursion” into Tito’s Yugoslavia in ’72 came from here. Quite a feat.

    Just be direct and state Ustashe. I don’t understand the need to be evasive about stating a fact which is very simple and obvious to knowledgeable people.

    Plenty of guys, from both sides, got involved in Balkans affairs in 90’s too.
    Hehe…wasn’t Captain Dragan from 4th/19th Prince of Wales’s Light Horse?

    Captain Dragan Vasiljkovic is a war hero and all the accusations against him are complete lies or hoaxes. The man has been rotting in a Croat prison for several years, and still is to this day, because he had the bravery and moral character to teach the Krajina Serbs how to defend themselves from being exterminated. Unfortunately, this didn’t help much in the long term, but his deed of training the Knindza Krajisniks has gone into eternal legend like the heroic martyrdom of Major Milan Tepic (Also, Stojadin Mirkovic).

    Tell me though, do you know anything as to why the Australian government decided to extradite him to Croatia? Powerful Croat/NATO influence? Or something else?

    When the bombing by NATO was going on in ’99, one could see how local Serbs felt about it. I haven’t seen such a reaction anywhere else.

    Would you mind telling me the kind of “reaction” that you saw?

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Seraphim
  247. Pandour says: • Website
    @annamaria

    You are on the wrong side of history,-entering into a discussion with you is simply a waste of time-as was the case with your historically illiterate fellow travelers.Like the rest of the ignorant oafs who descended upon me like a pack of mad dogs, you did not mention one point I made.No wonder that there are 32 million functional illiterates in the U.S.Even the Montenegrins broke free from Serbian over-lordship and opted for independence.The Serbian army occupied Montenegro in 1918. and up to 1929 killed,wounded and imprisoned 5,000 Montenegrin patriots.The Serb occupation forces torched 6,000 Montenegrin homes.A systematic Serbianisation of Montenegro began from the outset.Serb carpetbaggers were sent in to colonize the country.The Montenegrin Orthodox Church ceased to exist and was reduced to an eparhija under the control of the Serb Orthodox Church seated in Belgrade.One must look at history with both eyes,not just one-you only see 10 per cent but ignore the other ninety.The jury on the wars in Yugoslavia from 1991 has been in for a long time-its ancient history,not to mention what I wrote for the period from 1912.You are on the side of evil-there is today no excuse for such ignorance.

  248. Pandour says: • Website
    @Seraphim

    You did not even BOTHER to read or comment on what I wrote. On May 21 2006 in a referundum 55.5 per cent of the voters in Montenegro voted for an independent Montenegrin state,which was recognized by the U.N. Security council.It came at the right time because after decades of nearly a century of Serbianisation Montenegrins finally regained their birthright and soul and ousted the Serb occupiers.This was a miracle which the historically illiterate and moral idiots simply can not grasp.You are no friend of the Serbs as you are a partaker in their evil deeds,consciously or in your sheer ignorance.

  249. @Seraphim

    Seraphim,

    And are Dalmatians Croats? Oh just forget it. Next we’ll be trying to work out are Macedonians Slavs or Greeks, once they were more Serbian but nowadays they’re more Albanian. And tomorrow? Who can tell.

  250. @Pandour

    The Serbian army occupied Montenegro in 1918. and up to 1929 killed,wounded and imprisoned 5,000 Montenegrin patriots.The Serb occupation forces torched 6,000 Montenegrin homes.A systematic Serbianisation of Montenegro began from the outset.Serb carpetbaggers were sent in to colonize the country.

    Well, that’s the first time in my entire life that I’ve ever come across these accusations. That is, the Serb Army torching 6,000 homes in Montenegro from 1918-1929. For obvious reasons, I’m naturally inclined to treat that as completely unsubstantiated garbage.

    Still, would you care to provide any proof, evidence, sources, and so on, to confirm these claims?

    The Montenegrin Orthodox Church ceased to exist and was reduced to an eparhija under the control of the Serb Orthodox Church seated in Belgrade.

    Complete garbage.

    The Eparchy (A province of an Orthodox Church) of Zeta (Name for Montenegro in Medeival Serbia) was founded by the SERBIAN Saint Sava in 1219 AD back in the time of the Nemanjic dynasty, as a part of the Serbian Orthodox Church.

    Ever since 1219, all Eastern Orthodox institutions in Montenegro have simply been a part of the Serbian Orthodox Church. They still are, despite the “Montenegrin” heretics who run around the place. Any Montenegrin Orthodox Church separate from the Serbian Orthodox Church never even existed until 1993, when a bunch of criminals created it …

    Also, “Metropolitan” Mihailo, or Miras Dedeic, of the pseudo-historical Montenegrin Church clearly and blatantly changed his attitude on the matter of not being an ethnic Serb as a Montenegrin in the last years of the 1990’s, despite making proud public declarations of his Serbdom in the early 1990’s. Also, the man is a blatantly amoral charlatan, trickster, fraud, and literally any other name you could think of for a corrupt conman …

    Also, this guy met with the current Pope Francis in 2007 in Argentina, which means that this guy is clearly in league with the Vatican and has all sorts of shady connections …

    A thorough reading of the following links make these basic facts clear for anyone interested in the truth:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitanate_of_Montenegro_and_the_Littoral

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montenegrin_Orthodox_Church

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mira%C5%A1_Dedei%C4%87

    • Replies: @Pandour
  251. @Seraphim

    Well, if you ask a Croat whether Montenegrins are Serbs or not, the answer that you will get is clearly obvious.

    You may as well have asked a Pole, Balt, or even a NATO official on whether Ukrainians are Russians …

  252. Pandour says: • Website

    Dalmatians are definitively Croats,just like the the present English are the ancestors of Anglo-Saxons,which is a poor comparison,because after 1066 there was a Norman presence,not to mention other factors.Croatian kings Stjepan I and his son Krešimir IV ruled the entire Dalmatian coast in the early 11th century.During the 12th century,after Croatia entered into a personal union with the Kingdom of Hungary a large part of the Dalmatian coast and littoral was returned to the original Croat Kingdom.The indigenous inhabitants of Dalmatia,Croats, in the 7th and 8th century AD,waged wars with Venice because the Venetians did not want to pay taxes of their merchant galleys to the Croats.Ater the accession of the Croat Duke Domagoj to the Croatian throne-ruled 864-875 AD the situation worsened.The biased Venetian chronicler John the Deacon called Domagoj pessimus Sclavorum dux-meaning the worst Duke of the Slavs.Venetian sea power was in large part based on the contribution of Croat sailors from Dalmatia.In the battle of Lepanto in 1571 one of the battles which saved the Christian West,1,500 Croatian sailors sacrificed their lives.In an equally decisive clash, virtually ignored in the West,which the prominent French Cardinal Richelieu called the battle that saved Western civilization. a garrison of some 2,500 predominantly Croats in 1566 in the Hungarian town of Szigetvar under the Viceroy of Croatia Nikola Zrinski held out for a full month against the most powerful army the Ottomans ever fielded-some 100,000 men.The greatest Ottoman Sultan,Sulejman the great,died in his tent during the siege-the Turks lost at least 20,000 dead and had to abandon their advance on Vienna.The garrison,including Zrinski,perished almost to a man in a final sortie.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  253. Pandour says: • Website
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    You are not qualified to comment on the subject because you do not speak the language and thus are not even familiar with basic sources.For starters check out The wiki article Srpska okupacija Crne Gore i Crnogorski komiti,wiki.I know you can not translate them but I will be glad to do so.If Montenegrins wanted to stay with Serbia,why did they opt for independence-a rhetorical question obvious to all but the historically illiterate

  254. peterAUS says:
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    ….why the Australian government decided to extradite him to Croatia?….

    U.S. pressure. The only one which matters.

    Would you mind telling me the kind of “reaction” that you saw?

    http://southmovement.alphalink.com.au/southnews/990328-serbs.htm

    • Agree: TheTotallyAnonymous
  255. Seraphim says:
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    Australia (and most of Aussies) adopted from the start a decided anti-Serbian stance. Remember the ‘Kossovar’ refugees received on a red carpet in Australia? Remember Steve Pratt and Peter Wallace?
    It was not any American pressure, but more simply direct orders from the Australian chief of state and supreme commander (HM Lilibeth). When England is at war, Australia is too.

    • Agree: TheTotallyAnonymous
  256. Seraphim says:
    @Pandour

    The greatest contribution of the Croats to the world is the necktie!

    • Replies: @Pandour
  257. Pandour says: • Website
    @Seraphim

    Bravo-but that is just a minor factor. Pope Leon the X in a letter in 1519 to the Croatian Ban-Viceroy Petar Berislavić dubbed Croatia Antemurale Christiantatis-The Bulwark of Christianity-against the Ottoman hordes.This Pope was not the first to bestow Croats with that title.A letter of the Croatian nobility in the parliament in Bihać on 10.April 1494 to the Pope Alexsander VI and the Holy Roman Emperor Maximilian I read-This might which we have for 70 YEARS confronted losing our bodies,lives and all possible goods,LIKE A TOWER AND BULWARK OF CHRISTEDNOM every day defending Christian lands,in so much as in is in our power to do so.Let this be known to you-if we falter to the Turks,they will exterminate Christianity in Croatia,end of quote.While the European nobility in Europe fought dynastic battles ignoring the Ottoman threat Croats for decades fought for Christianity.As mentioned in my previous comment on the siege of Szigetvar-and that was only one episode over a period of over 150 years,if it was not for the Croat effort to block the Ottoman advance,at the very least,today you would have a predominantly Muslim population in Vienna with dozens of mosques.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  258. @Pandour

    Pandour,

    if it was not for the Croat effort to block the Ottoman advance,at the very least,today you would have a predominantly Muslim population in Vienna with dozens of mosques.

    The Serbs can also claim to have done their bit to save Europe from Islam. And the Romanians. And many more, like Sobierski and the Poles.

    Maybe Vienna isn’t yet majority muslim, but dozens of mosques? More than a dozen so far:

    https://www.viennadirect.com/living/mosques.php

    • Replies: @Pandour
  259. Pandour says: • Website
    @Commentator Mike

    Agreed,particularly the Poles-for one who can forget the dramatic appearance of Sobieski at Vienna in 1683-the final turn of the tide.Its right out of Lord of the Rings.The Romanian contribution is best embodied in Vlad Tepeš,better known as Dracula,who raided into Bulgaria and killed thousands of Turks.In Wallachia Vlad impaled 23,844 Turks,known as the Forest of the Dead.The Serbs became Turkish vassals after the defeat of Kosovo and ironically enough were the key factor in the defeat of the Crusader forces in the battle of Nicopolis in 1396.When the Christian forces were on the verge of victory and nearly captured or killed Sultan Bajezid,a conuer-attack by some 1,500 Serb horsemen turned the tide in the Turkish favor,thus sealing the fate of much of southeastern Europe for 300 years.The battle was lost by the French nights who attacked inepedently wanting the glory for themselves.To their credit they broke through three Turkish ranks,but after suffering heavy losses and with horses winded the attack lost momentum.

  260. Smith says:

    Hong Kong belongs to China, BUT somehow Crimea belongs to Russia (despite the territory before 2014).

    Stand strong Ukraine, there is still over 30 million ukrainian left, that’s more 4x the amount of serbians left (the serbs sure are vocal about this though, and their whining of the baltic “zombie” states because how dare they are wary of Russia/jews).

    • Troll: TheTotallyAnonymous
  261. Smith says:

    Ah, the resident “serb” (TTA) who lives in fucking Australia does not want to be reminded on how his country’s population is about the size of Hong Kong (and falling!) while he whines about the doomed Ukraine.

    What hilarity.

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