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Thanking Vets for Their "Service" – Why?
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Depending on the context, the small word “why” can be totally innocuous or it can be just about the most subversive and even sacrilegious word one can utter. This is probably why I love this word so much: it’s ability to unleash tremendous power against all sorts of sacred cows and unchallenged beliefs. So, today I want to ask everybody why so many people feel the need to thank veterans for their “service”?

But first, let’s debunk a few myths:

First, let’s begin by getting myth #1 out of the way: the notion that Americans don’t like wars. That is totally false. Americans hate losing wars, but if they win them, they absolutely love them. In other words, the typical US reaction to a war depends on the perceived outcome of that war. If it is a success they love it (even if it is a turkey-shoot like Desert Storm). If it is a deniable defeat (say the US/NATO air operations against Serbian forces in Kosovo or the total clusterbleep in Grenada) they will simply “forget” it. And if it is an undeniable defeat (say Iraq or Afghanistan) then, yes, indeed, most Americans will be categorically opposed to it.

Veterans of foreign wars? Wait, I was not aware that there were any other types of vets!
Veterans of foreign wars? Wait, I was not aware that there were any other types of vets!

Next is myth #2: the truth is that no US serviceman or woman has fought a war in defense of the US since at least WWII (and even this one is very debatable considering that the US forced Japan to wage war and since the attack on Pearl Harbor was set-up as a pretext to then attack Japan). Since 1945 there has not been a single situation in which US soldiers defended their land, their towns, their families or their friends from an aggressor. Not one! All the wars fought by the US since 1945 were wars of aggression, wars of choice and most of them were completely illegal to boot (including numerous subversive and covert operations). At most, one can make the argument that US veterans defended the so-called “American way of life,” but only if one accepts that the said “American way of life” requires and mandates imperialist wars of aggression and the wholesale abandonment of the key concepts of international law.

Finally, there is the ugly dirty little secret that everybody knows but, for some reason, very few dare to mention: the decision to join the (all volunteer) US military is one primarily based on financial considerations and absolutely not some kind of generous “service” of the motherland for pure, lofty, ideals. Yes, yes, I know – there were those who did join the US military after 9/11 thinking that the US had been attacked and that they needed to help bring the fight to those who attacked the US. But even with a very modest degree of intelligence, it should have become pretty darn obvious that whether 9/11 was indeed the work of Bin Laden and al-Qaeda or not (personally I am absolutely certain that this was a controlled demolition) – this atrocity was used by the US government to justify a long list of wars which could not have possibly had anything to do with 9/11. Hey, after all, the US decided to attack Iraq (which self-evidently had nothing to do with 9/11) and not the KSA (even though most of the putative hijackers were Saudis and had official Saudi backing). Besides, even if some folks were not smart enough to see through the lies and even if THEY believed that they joined the US military to defend the US, why would the rest of us who by 2018 all know that the attack on Iraq was purely and solely based on lies, “thank” veterans for stupidly waging war for interests they cannot even identify? Since when do we thank people for making wrong and, frankly, immoral decisions?!

Corporate Pizza chains for wars...
Corporate Pizza chains for wars...

Now let’s look at another basic thing: what is military service? The way I see it, military personnel can roughly be split into two categories: those who actually kill people and those who help those who kill people kill people. Right? If you are a machine gunner or a tank driver, then you personally get to kill people. If you are a communications specialist, or a truck driver, or an electrician, you don’t get to kill people yourself, but your work is to make it easier for those who kill people to kill people. So I think that it would be fair to say that joining a military, any military, is to join an organization whose main purpose is to kill people. Of course, that killing can be morally justifiable and, say, in defense of your country and fellow citizens. But that can only be the case if you prepare for a defensive war and, as we all know, the US has not fought such a war for over 70 years now. Which means that with a few increasingly rare exceptions (WWII veterans) ALL the veterans which get thanked for their service did what exactly? If we put it in plain English, what fundamental, crucial decision did ALL these veterans make?

In simple and plain English, veterans are those who signed up to kill people outside the US for money.

ORDER IT NOW

Sorry, I know that this sounds offensive to many, but this is a fact. The fact that this decision (to join an organization whose primary purpose is to murder people in their own countries, hundreds and thousands of miles away from the US) could ALSO have been taken for “patriotic” reasons (i.e. by those who believed in what is most likely the most lying propaganda machine in history) or to “see the world” and “become a real man” does not change the fact that if the US military offered NO pay or benefits, NO scholarships, NO healthcare, etc. then the vast majority of those who claim that they joined to “serve” would never have joined in the first place. We all know that, let’s not pretend otherwise! Just look at the arguments recruiters use to convince people to join: they are all about money and benefits! Need more proof? Just look at the kind of social groups who compose the bulk of the US military: uneducated, poor, with minimal career prospects. The simple truth is that financially successful folks very rarely join the military and, when they do, they usually make a career out of it.

As somebody who has lived in the US for a total of 21 years now, I can attest that folks join the military precisely for the same reasons they enter the police force or become correctional officers: because in all those endeavors there is money to be made and benefits to enjoy. Okay, there must be, by definition, the 1% or less who joined these (all violent) careers for purely lofty and noble ideals. But these would be a small, tiny, minority. The overwhelming majority of cops, correctional officers and soldiers joined primarily for material and/or financial reasons.

By the way, since that is the case, is it not also true that the soldier (just like the cop or the correctional officers) has ALREADY received his/her “gratitude” from the society for their “service” in the form of a check? Why do folks then still feel the need to “thank them for their service”? We don’t thank air traffic controllers or logging workers (also very tough careers) for their service, do we? And that is in spite of the fact that air traffic controllers and logging workers did not choose to join an organization whose primary goal is to kill people in their own homes (whether private homes or national ones) which is what soldiers get paid for.

Let me repeat that truism once again, in an even more direct way: veterans are killers hired for money. Period. The rest is all propaganda.

In a normal sane world, one would think that this is primarily a moral and ethical question. I would even say a spiritual one. Surely major religions would have something relevant and clarifying to say about this? Well, in the past they did. In fact, with some slight variations, the principles of what is called a “just war” have been known in the West since at least Augustine of Hippo and Thomas Aquinas. According to one source they are:

  • A just war can only be waged as a last resort. All non-violent options must be exhausted before the use of force can be justified.
  • A war is just only if it is waged by a legitimate authority. Even just causes cannot be served by actions taken by individuals or groups who do not constitute an authority sanctioned by whatever the society and outsiders to the society deem legitimate.
  • A just war can only be fought to redress a wrong suffered. For example, self-defense against an armed attack is always considered to be a just cause (although the justice of the cause is not sufficient–see point #4). Further, a just war can only be fought with “right” intentions: the only permissible objective of a just war is to redress the injury.
  • A war can only be just if it is fought with a reasonable chance of success. Deaths and injury incurred in a hopeless cause are not morally justifiable.
  • The ultimate goal of a just war is to re-establish peace. More specifically, the peace established after the war must be preferable to the peace that would have prevailed if the war had not been fought.
  • The violence used in the war must be proportional to the injury suffered. States are prohibited from using force not necessary to attain the limited objective of addressing the injury suffered.
  • The weapons used in war must discriminate between combatants and non-combatants. Civilians are never permissible targets of war, and every effort must be taken to avoid killing civilians. The deaths of civilians are justified only if they are unavoidable victims of a deliberate attack on a military target.
Modern religions for war
Modern religions for war

(Check out this article for a more thorough discussion of this fascinating topic)

Now Augustine of Hippo and Thomas Aquinas are hardly heroes of mine, but they are considered as very authoritative in western philosophical thought. Yet, when checked against this list of criteria, all the wars fought by the US are clearly and self-evidently totally unjust: all of them fail on several criteria, and most of them (including the attack on Iraq and Afghanistan) fail on all of them!

But there is no need to go far back into the centuries to find authoritative western thinkers who clearly denounce unjust wars. Did you know that the ultimate crime under international law is not genocide or crimes against humanity?

Robert H Jackson
Robert H Jackson

Nope, the supreme crime under international law is the crime of aggression. In the words of the chief American prosecutor at Nuremberg and Associate Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States, Robert H. Jackson, the crime of aggression is the supreme crime because “it contains within itself the accumulated evil” of all the other war crimes. He wrote: “To initiate a war of aggression, therefore, is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole.”

So from the 4th century through the 20th century, the people of the West always knew what a just war was, and they fully understood that starting such a war is the supreme evil crime under international law. But this goes beyond just major wars. Under international law, the crime of “aggression” does not only refer to a full-scale military attack. Aggression can be defined as the execution of any one of the following acts:

  • Declaration of war upon another State.
  • Invasion by its armed forces, with or without a declaration of war, of the territory of another State.
  • Attack by its land, naval or air forces, with or without a declaration of war, on the territory, vessels or aircraft of another State.
  • A naval blockade of the coasts or ports of another State.
  • Provision of support to armed bands formed in its territory which have invaded the territory of another State, or refusal, notwithstanding the request of the invaded State, to take, in its own territory, all the measures in its power to deprive those bands of all assistance or protection.

Finally, it is important to note here that by these authoritative legal definitions, every single US President is a war criminal under international law! This, in turn, begs the question of whether all the wars fought by US soldiers since 1945 were indeed waged by a legitimate authority (as mentioned by Augustine of Hippo and Thomas Aquinas above)? How can that be when the Commander in Chief himself is a war criminal?

Let’s sum it up so far: we have folks who agree to become killers (or killer-assistants), who do that primarily for financial reasons, who then only participate in illegal and immoral wars of aggression and whose commander in chief is a war criminal.

And they deserve our gratitude why exactly?!

Maybe because so many veterans have been hurt, maimed, traumatized? Maybe because once they leave the armed forces, they don’t get the social and medical support they need? Perhaps merely because wars are horrible? Or maybe because the veterans were lied to and deceived? Or maybe because some (many?) of them did try to stay human, honorable and decent people in spite of the horrors of war all around them? When we think of the horrendous unemployment, homelessness and even suicide figures amongst veterans, we cannot but feel that these are people who have been lied to, cheated and then discarded like a useless tool. So maybe saying “thank you for your service” is the right thing to say?

Nope! These are all excellent reasons to feel compassion and sympathy for veterans, yes. But not gratitude. There is a huge difference here. Everybody, every human, and I strongly believe every creature deserves compassion and sympathy. But it is one thing to say “I feel compassion for you” and quite another to say “thank you for what you did” because that implies that the deed was a moral, good, ethical deed, and that is entirely false.

Major General Smedley Butler put it best when he wrote:

War is a racket. It always has been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small “inside” group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war, a few people make huge fortunes.

If we agree that war is, indeed, a “racket” and that it is conducted “for the benefit of the very few” then it would make sense for these “very few” to express their gratitude to those whom they hired to enrich them. And, in fact, they do. Here is the best example of that:

Corporation for war (well, that at least makes sense!)
Corporation for war (well, that at least makes sense!)

Of course, Google is no more dependent on wars of aggression than any other US corporation. The very nature of the US economy is based on war and has always been based on war. The so-called “American way of life” but without wars of aggression has never been attempted in the past, and it won’t be attempted for as long as the US remains the cornerstone of the AngloZionist Empire and the world hegemony it seeks to impose on the rest of mankind. But until that day arrives the “American way of life” will always imply wars of aggression and the mass murder of innocent people whose only “sin” is to dare to want to live free and not be a slave to the Empire. If you believe that those who dare to want to live free in a truly sovereign country deserve to be murdered and maimed, then yes, by all means – thank the veterans from the bottom of your heart!

But if you don’t believe this, offer them your compassion, but not your gratitude for their crimes.

 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: American Media, American Military 
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  1. JR says:

    Within this context one ought to mention the “Crime of Aggression”:
    “A Crime of Aggression is a specific type of crime where a person plans, initiates, or executes an act of aggression using state military force that violates the Charter of the United Nations. The act is judged as a violation based on its character, gravity, and scale.[1]

    Acts of aggression include invasion, military occupation, annexation by the use of force, bombardment, and military blockade of ports.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_of_aggression

    The mandate to persecute for this crime was awarded to the ICC.

    https://www.icc-cpi.int/Pages/item.aspx?name=pr1350

    Of course quite some usual suspects refused to sign up including the US.

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  2. “Finally, there is the ugly dirty little secret that everybody knows but, for some reason, very few dare to mention: the decision to join the (all volunteer) US military is one primarily based on financial considerations and absolutely not some kind of generous “service” of the motherland for pure, lofty, ideals.”

    Dude, I joined because there are very few jobs where you get license to kill and blow things up. It was money that lured me away from the US military.

    • LOL: The Scalpel
    • Replies: @Currahee
    , @WJ
  3. The only thing I would add to this excellent article is that “just following orders” was ruled as being not a valid defence for those who participated in war crimes on any level.

    I do think though that the personnel of the armed forces should be targeted (kindly by men and women) via social media so that they fully understand that their “good faith” enlistment was a fraud perpetrated on them and the nation so that their anger might result in resistance from within the military.

    • Replies: @pyrrhus
    , @PraedorPr
    , @Douglas
  4. Anon[155] • Disclaimer says: • Website

    US empire has been useless and criminal since the end of the Cold War.

    But in a world of empires, the US empire preferable to the German, Japanese, Russian, and Spanish.

  5. You know, America may have a whole boatload of very real and serious problems which I have no intention of glossing over, but I’m just about sick of this failed Russian douchebag telling me about them with his not-even-concealed contempt.

    For many years I have been pro-Russian and I still am. I wish Mr. Putin the best of success in curbing the excesses of American hegemony. However, this Saker fellow has lost all my respect and I can no longer take seriously anything he says. He is clearly just a washed up, miserable, bitter son of a bitch who has found a niche for himself pumping masochism to disaffected American internet spergs of the mil-intel persuasion. He is the Pied Piper to a phalanx of Dale Gribbles marching around in ineffectual obliviousness. What a freaking loser.

  6. Realist says:

    Since 1945 there has not been a single situation in which US soldiers defended their land, their towns, their families or their friends from an aggressor. Not one!

    Totally agree.

  7. Mario964 says:

    Killing for money.
    Wasn’t the Milgram experiment clear enough in shedding light on the reality of human nature?

    • Replies: @cassandra
    , @Rabbitnexus
    , @anon
  8. But Saker, you are denying our raison d’etre , our very life blood, our means of survival. How will we live in the world without our sole means of trade and prosperity. Surely you are joking? Please say no more on this subject lest the rest of humanity turn on us and ruin our credit. Be kind and say no more. Please!

  9. Renoman says:

    99% of soldiers became soldiers because it was the best available job, it had nothing to do with patriotism or love of country. Puting them on a pedestal is an invention of politicians trying to glorify the job so as to suck in more soldiers.

    • Replies: @Johann
    , @JoaoAlfaiate
  10. anonymous[340] • Disclaimer says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    Please pretend that the article had been written by Smedley Butler’s granddaughter.

    Now, precisely who or what do you believe the author to hold in “not-even-concealed contempt”?

  11. @Intelligent Dasein

    Have you considered not reading Saker’s articles? I’m sure he’d understand and wouldn’t want you to unnecessarily feel sick at all and there are lots of other articles to read here.

  12. All this thanking is purely pro-forma bullshit. At every NBA game there is a halftime moment when some “hero among us” usually a veteran, is honored. More often than not he spent his time in the military in front of a computer screen in Nevada. I would bet that not a single one of all the thousands who attended these games could identify one of these “heroes among us” by name five minutes after they honored them. It’s all empty ritual, a bitter fraud just like the rest of American public life.

  13. Kiza says:

    The most interesting in this topic is the dichotomy between the blatantly obvious that Saker writes about – that US military person is the lowest level of a mercanairy that the World has ever seen, which most of the rest of the World is so acutely aware of and the military “service” taboo built in the US. Did Saker really need to explain that US military is only about killing of the defenders and their innocent? To who did this need explaining? To cretins such as Intelligent Dasein, who think that declaring himself pro-Russian gives him the high moral point to attack the messenger of his own emptiness (not all veterans can write Born on the 4th of July, can they?). Talk about “never learn anything”! This just shows how pointless this breaking of US taboos totally is. The World will continue on just as was before this article, the moral-less and mind-less US shitbags will keep joining the military racket “for scholarships” or some shyte like that until US ends up taking on some real “enemy” who will bring this taboo down but not with words then with “Kinetic Action” that will turn the tables on US shitbag military.

    I have this mental image of US towns looking like Hiroshima with only this Stavro’s Pizza advertisement still standing as a poignant reminder of the God himself having been recruited into the gang of its former military rapists and killers for profit and for pleasure.

    • Replies: @Tulip
    , @Craig Morris
  14. L. Ross says:

    I’m sorry, but the controlled demolition comment destroyed his credibility. What a tool.

  15. @Intelligent Dasein

    Looks like he hit a nerve? What exactly you do not agree with? Apart from personal attacks, you have not said anything else.

  16. @Realist

    I was going to use that quote as well.

    Dissidents in 1968 justified their resistance to the war on just those grounds–that the USA was not directly under attack and was not threatened by Vietnamese aggression. And went on to say that were the homeland of the USA threatened, then they would man up and defend their country. So, it’s not that they were unpatriotic or cowards, it’s that they would only fight a morally justifiable, defensive war.

    Well, now the nation is under siege. Hordes of invaders swarm across our southern border like a plague of locusts. Hundreds of thousands are shipped here from Africa and the Middle East and dropped like cockroaches in our midst.

    And where do the 1960′s protestors position themselves with respect to these threats to the homeland today? They meekly acquiesce. They stand down, shrivel and roll over. Now, when it is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country, they still protest–but in favor of the invaders.

    Traitorous sh*theads.

    • Agree: Realist, David In TN, Clyde
    • Replies: @Pilgrim
    , @DanFromCT
    , @DanFromCT
  17. @L. Ross

    I’m sorry but your comment has destroyed your credibility. Only a fool thinks that low intensity fires caused those buildings to explode.

    • Replies: @Wally
  18. @Intelligent Dasein

    I enjoy some content-free vituperation from time to time, as well ;)

    But how specifically is the Saker wrong?

  19. mijj says:

    basically, the US Government is a Mafia organization, and US Military Personnel are Mafia Thugs.

    • Replies: @Curmudgeon
  20. LG says:

    I understand where the author is coming from. However, WHY does he continue to live in the US? His tax dollars are funding the war machine. Why not pick up and move elsewhere, for example Russia, in the case of the Saker?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  21. @RadicalCenter

    But how specifically is the Saker wrong?

    Are you an idiot? Are you such a Pavlovian dullard that you cannot read and understand what I actually wrote? Wake up and pay attention, because I’m going to say this very slowly and clearly this time. I DIDN’T SAY HE WAS WRONG, you programmatical, camp-thinking moron! Whether Saker is right or wrong in certain specific claims about the US military is not the issue here. The point is that he is an unsavory piece of shit and so are the dufflepuds who proleptically yup-yup his articles.

    I’ll give you four specific reasons why this fake Russian loser ought to be kicked to curb.

    1. The controlled demolition comment. L. Ross is absolutely right about the fact that this alone destroys Saker’s credibility. 9-11 Trutherism is among the most vapid forms of pure anal masturbation that the internet age has produced. There is no evidence whatsoever that there was any controlled demolition, or any reason to think that 9-11 wasn’t exactly what it appeared to be. For someone who sells himself as military and intelligence analyst, to engage in such lurid flights of fancy is totally unforgivable and summarily invalidating.

    2. The Smedley Butler quote. This is one of the most overused and demonstrably false snippets of text ever to make the rounds, and the resort to such quotations is the province of hack writers and discord-sowing mountebanks. War is a nasty business to be sure, and is the occasion of many crimes and injustices, but it is not a racket in the sense here intended. Even a war fought for the openly crass reason of protecting one’s own economic interests is hardly a uniquely evil event. It may be a deplorable fact of life, but you have to ask yourself: What else did you think was going to happen? Are the powerful of the world going to just sit by and watch their fortunes be destroyed? Are the potentates of the Banana Republics that Smedley Butler campaigned in any different in their aims or any less ferocious in their means? No, of course not. So spare me all the sanctimonious crap. This is the way the world works, and the choice before every individual, before every nation, is only to fight or to surrender. There is no third alternative.

    3. Ditto Saker’s critique of the mercenary aspects of US soldiery. This is another one of those facts of life which it makes absolutely no sense to complain about. Most soldiers all throughout history have been mercenaries in the sense that they fought primarily because it was a job, one they thought they could do well at, and one that offered the prospects of adventure as well as a paycheck. It is only in late, sick, exhausted periods that philosophical old women like Saker decide to turn athwart this reality and cry “Unjust!” At all other times the profession of arms was considered a calling like any other, perhaps not the noblest calling but certainly a legitimate one. Like the peasant and the artisan and the tradesman, his existence was a permanent fixture of normal social organization. There is something already quite morbid about asking why he exists, let alone criticizing the fact that he exists. No less than any SJW, the Saker is only exhorting you to despise yourself and you have heartily consented. In other contexts this is called “cucking out.”

    4. Last but most importantly, we have this: “Now Augustine of Hippo and Thomas Aquinas are hardly heroes of mine…” Oh, why not, Saker? If what they said is correct, then why don’t they merit any respect from you? If what they said is incorrect, then why are you demanding that we live by their maxims? There is no need to reply, for we already know the answer. This is another one of your smarmy digs at Roman Catholicism, which you never forbear to denigrate when you can get away with it. You think our religion is shit but you don’t hesitate to rub the shit in our faces. Well the hell with you, Saker. Anyone who would say a word against Sts. Augustine and Thomas is no friend of truth, no lover of wisdom, and no servant of God. These men are the pillars of Christianity, whereas you are nothing but an internet crank who guilt-trips the enervated sons of Europe into rejecting their heritage and throwing away their salvation. I will see you cast out of this place and thrown into the fires of hell, there to suffer the eternity of pain and humiliation you so richly deserve.

  22. Biff says:
    @L. Ross

    I mean really! Everybody knows the Big Bad Wolf, Huffed and Puffed, and blew those buildings down. That’s the only way buildings come down.

  23. Tulip says:

    The problem with this essay is that it is chock full of b.s. pieties.

    On International Law:

    There is no such thing as international law, because there is no law without a sovereign.

    The system of “international law” has primarily been built to support U.S. Hegemony, ergo, American efforts to promote U.S. hegemony by definition cannot violate international law properly understood.

    Second, to the extent there is a variance, the true sovereign is the US, and as there is no “International Sovereign” the US is subject to, agents of the US cannot be subject to “International Law” unless the Sovereign (the US) agrees that they are (and that agreement can be rescinded, and selectively).

    A case could be made that the U.S. should abandon the UN altogether, but the UN does provide some effective cover for what Saker would call “Wars of Aggression”.

    On Aggression:

    The best defense is to strangle the baby in the crib before it gets too big to pose a threat. The distinction between “offensive war” and “defensive war” is formal, not real.

    The Just War doctrine is amorphous goobley-gook that can be stretched to support any war, or tightened to “problematize” any war.

    The problem with modern American wars is not that they are aggressive, its that they have little or no relationship with American national interests, which isn’t the fault of ordinary soldiers.

    Might makes right. Only losers can commit international human rights violations.

    Conclusion:

    Why shouldn’t Americans be thankful for those people who stand up and kill “our enemies” on “our behalf” at risk of their own life and limb?

    If they didn’t do it, America might end up one of the losers of history, in which case it might become capable of international human rights violations. It wouldn’t serve the interests of humanity if America became capable of human rights abuses.

  24. @Intelligent Dasein

    This seems incontestable:

    “Are the powerful of the world going to just sit by and watch their fortunes be destroyed? Are the potentates of the Banana Republics that Smedley Butler campaigned in any different in their aims or any less ferocious in their means? No, of course not.”

  25. Dutch Boy says:

    My own military service illustrates an exception to The Saker’s rant. After a period of training I was deployed to an infantry brigade in Germany for fourteen months (I had the cushy job of brigade commo clerk). Our job was to deter a Warsaw Pact invasion of Germany, a job we performed with flying colors. I wielded no weapons more dangerous than a typewriter and coding machine and the only casualties of my service were a shockingly large number of bottles of beer. So, to all you Americans who wish to thank me for my service – You’re Welcome!

    • Replies: @Wally
  26. In re veterans, just so and well said. As amoral as Guido and Vito breaking a shopkeeper’s legs. If ordered to bomb Switzerland, they would do and pride themselves on it.

    Regarding Nine-Eleven: Until someone who actually know the business of controlled demolition shows what specifically would have been needed, used how without being noticed, to produce the collapse, it will remain just another empty conspiracy theory.

  27. Tulip says:

    One of the problems the West faces is the post-Nuremberg phenomenon.

    The Nazis were scum, and they killed a lot of people, and they lost, and so most of the leadership got shot. It is what you call revenge, and it is this instinct when channeled becomes justice. I will not cry for Eichmann, even though he committed no crime, he got what he deserved.

    Now, the West manufactured a load of bullshit to justify the result the West wanted (which was revenge), and now we are stuck with the bullshit, and people like Saker cite the bullshit to bad mouth America. Time to dump the bullshit, although the hordes of shitlibs who would kick and scream about it would be deafening.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @lysias
  28. I hate what they have done to my country. :(

  29. Dutch Boy says:
    @Tulip

    Just War doctrine is a handy guide for statesmen, inasmuch as wickedness is often also stupidity (our warmaking has mostly been an exercise in stupidity). Adherence to JW doctrine would have kept us out of most of our wars as well as mitigating some of the worst excesses committed by US forces in those wars.

  30. @Intelligent Dasein

    The truth is occasionally painful. Don’t focus on the messenger, focus on the message.

  31. @Frederic reed
    And building 7?
    Come, give something here will ya

    • Replies: @ThreeCranes
  32. Cyrano says:

    Maybe the best way to celebrate the sacrifices that vets do for their country is to make a porn movie. I have already come up with the name and the basic storyline of such a project.

    The title of the movie would be: “Saving Ryan’s privates”. Soldier gets injured in a battle in the most delicate part of his body. Luckily, a modern day Florence Nightingale is at hand, and she is incredibly orally gifted and she sets to restore his health one bj at the time.

    • Replies: @Pheasant
  33. personally I am absolutely certain that this was a controlled demolition

    There’s a lot of utter nonsense that you are absolutely certain about. Most of it is BS. A good example is the trash you’ve posted about Ukraine. Ukraine was invaded by Russia because Putin’s puppet was going to be brought to justice for what he ordered on the Maidan, and Yanukovich ran, like the coward he is.

    The trade center towers did not show the signs of a controlled demolition.

    • Troll: bluedog
    • Replies: @JR
    , @Wally
  34. @flabergasted

    Building 7 collapsed out of a sense of desolation, having seen his two bigger companions bite the dust.

  35. JR says:
    @Quartermaster

    Even the German government friendly Der Spiegel begs to differ:

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/war-in-ukraine-a-result-of-misunderstandings-between-europe-and-russia-a-1004706.html

    The US instigated coup was in line with Brzezinski’s “Grand Chessboard” delusions of the US having to control Eurasia especially Ukraine in order to reduce Russia to the role of a regional power. The EU piggybacked on that coup by having the Maidan regime sign on to the European Neighborhood Policy thus reducing Ukraine to the role of a EU dependent non-member state.

    http://www.imi-online.de/2016/03/10/expansion-association-confrontation/

  36. Saker

    I agree with you. But…….

    DON’T….blame the Working Class White Male Teenagers who are signing up….for they face what is basically this:the career opportunities of a slave…..they are “choosing” from a range of career choices available to a chattel slave effectively……

    The real criminals are the adults…..

    Among other things….California’s technological labor markets have been handed over to the Chinese and Hindu….”Americans”…..

    • Replies: @Reuben Kaspate
  37. @Frederick V. Reed

    Regarding Nine-Eleven: Until someone who actually knows anything at all about the Laws of physics shows specifically just how low intensity fires could cause the explosions that produced the collapses all the way to the ground, it will remain just another infantile coincidence theory.

    • Agree: FB
    • Replies: @James Speaks
    , @L.K
  38. Gregory says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    I think you’re way too harsh on Saker. But I wholeheartedly agree with your objection to his stupid, ignorant, and mean-spirited remark about St. Thomas Aquinas and St. Augustine. Saker’s Orthodoxy, as occasionally expressed by him, serves it poorly. His mean-spiritedness and narrow intellectuality come out as sarcasm and irritability. Stupidity and pride tend to go together, as his remark clearly shows.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
  39. JLK says:

    The military people are a lot more decent in general than some of their civilian politico leaders. They deserve praise and veterans benefits.

  40. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says: • Website

    As long as US sees itself as globo-cop, its military men will not be seen as mercenaries but as centurions, Team America, to keep the order around the world.

    Sometimes, US presence is stabilizing IF the US plays a disinterested neutral role as an impartial judge. But ever since Jewish Power took over the US, the US military is essentially a corrupt globo-cop that does the bidding of Kosher Nostra.

  41. Mulegino1 says:

    First, let’s begin by getting myth #1 out of the way: the notion that Americans don’t like wars. That is totally false. Americans hate losing wars, but if they win them, they absolutely love them. In other words, the typical US reaction to a war depends on the perceived outcome of that war. If it is a success they love it (even if it is a turkey-shoot like Desert Storm). If it is a deniable defeat (say the US/NATO air operations against Serbian forces in Kosovo or the total clusterbleep in Grenada) they will simply “forget” it. And if it is an undeniable defeat (say Iraq or Afghanistan) then, yes, indeed, most Americans will be categorically opposed to it.

    Saner Americans hate war, but Hollywood loves it- particularly when war can be used as an instrument of Zionist propaganda, or to draw sympathy towards international Jewry and its enablers.
    This has been the case since the First World War. Hymiewood has had a love affair with American foreign policy ever since Woodrow Wilson entered the “war to end all wars”, for the single reason that American war policy has been international Jewish (and British) policy.

  42. The fact that the US military stands ready to repel an armed invader makes it unnecessary for them to actually do so, and for that much they deserve thanks. But the last time a foreign power attacked the United States was 1812 (Hawaii wasn’t a state during WW2).

  43. wholy1 says:

    So, what about the CONSCRIPTED during the ‘Nam “intervention”? Gotta cute/ready-made retort to said? What has the author “served”, other than his/her/itself?

    • Replies: @Harold Smith
    , @Tom Verso
  44. I won’t bash the troops, but I won’t thank them, either. Financial considerations aside, I believe that most of those who join do believe they’re doing the right thing. Good intentions, however, don’t bring the victims of unnecessary US wars back to life.

    • Replies: @Pinche Perro
  45. nsa says:

    The Saker appears to be taking a lot of incoming fire for having a go at the sainted american soldier boy……most of whom are dumb-full-of-cum twenty-something morons with no conception they are there to simply advance the megalomaniacal objectives of the insane bloodthirsty jooies. The dummy american service guy does the bombing of mostly civilians, the dummy american pols provide the cover, and the dummy american taxpayer picks up the tab. Since censorship by the vile jooie Cock Cutting Cult is near 100% in the good ole usa, there are very few forums where this view can be expressed.

  46. raywood says:

    Interesting article. There are some points that probably should have been supported with citations to research. For instance, I suspect the percentage of those who become police officers for reasons other than money is probably quite a bit higher than 1%. But overall, a very interesting, non-mainstream presentation.

  47. DCBillS says:

    This conscript made sure his net contribution to the war was negative. I also witnessed the aftermath of a fragging. (There were some heroes in the nam.) I’m very amused when I visit the VA and they thank me for my service. Hey! its free money.

  48. Gregory says:
    @Rex Little

    What country–this last century or so–is really capable of invading the US? Canada? Mexico?
    Guatemala?

    • Replies: @Rex Little
  49. anonymous[340] • Disclaimer says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    “… I will see you cast out of this place and thrown into the fires of hell, there to suffer the eternity of pain and humiliation you so richly deserve.”

    Are you serious? You really haven’t elaborated any substantial criticism of the article. Instead, you have further confirmed that the author had already pushed some of your buttons. (I asked above that you pretend the article had been written by Smedley Butler’s granddaughter and then address it, but it sounds like you may be hung up on him, too.)

    I don’t think you should read anything more by this author, even a grocery list. He drives you mad.

  50. The scalpel says: • Website
    @Frederick V. Reed

    Regarding the article, been there, done that, have the Court Martial to prove it.

    How to Defeat the US Army in Your Underpants

    http://thescalpel.net/underpantsl.html

  51. President Trump retorted to an interviewer when the reporter said that Putin is a killer, “You don’t think we have our own killers?”

  52. Pilgrim says:
    @ThreeCranes

    Better sanction shit hole nations, their elites of super rich, that don’t care about their own people.
    Honduras and Guatemala governments deserve US sanctions very much.

    • Replies: @Carroll Price
  53. Anonymous[346] • Disclaimer says:

    Since you have that picture of the Seventh Day Adventist billboard, it should be noted that the only Congressional Medal of Honor winner who refused to pick up a weapon or kill anyone (or kill any animal), was a devout Seventh Day Adventist, Desmond Doss, who fought in the most horrific battle of WWII, the Battle of Okinawa. Doss’ heroic actions were portrayed in the Mel Gibson movie Hacksaw Ridge. Doss served in the U.S. Army 77th Division.

    • Replies: @The scalpel
  54. @Frederick V. Reed

    Agree with Fred. Every large controlled demolition I witnessed shows massive explosions at ground level. If that had happened it would have shown on the videos that were taken. In addition no one would have been able to escape from the buildings as hundreds did before the collapse. Why didn’t the Empire State building collapse when it was struck by a B-25? The B-25 is about a tenth as large as a Boeing 737 and only carries 600 gallons of fuel fully loaded.

  55. Simply Simon, is that a typo? Wasn’t Simple Simon your intended pseudonym? There are the evil ones who perpetrated the attacks and the simple ones who aid and abet them intentionally or not. Both kinds contribute to the destruction of the US as we knew it.

    Fortunately there are some excellent articles on 9/11 to be found here at The Unz Review.

    • Replies: @Simply Simon
  56. nsa says:
    @Simply Simon

    Care to explain WTC Bldg 7? A few whiffs of smoke come out of it and down it goes. How about the initial pictures of the 20′ diameter hole in the Pentagon facade that a Boeing 757 supposedly caused? The wings, turbines, 40′ tall fin, bodies could not have fit through the 20′ hole, yet they are nowhere to be seen in the initial pictures. Care to concoct an explanation? Oh, that’s right. Your hero Senor Freddie says the 20′hole was caused by some large round object lacking wings, a fin, turbines….possibly a giant flying burrito.

    • Replies: @Simply Simon
  57. My two preferred military organizations in the entire world are: (1) the Swiss militia, which fights only in defense of the borders of Switzerland: and (2) the French Foreign Legion, which fights anywhere the French government sends it, but for the glory and tradition of the Legion itself. “Switzerland doesn’t have an army, Switzerland is an army.” I met a Swiss fellow in Moscow (of all places). He was quite matter of fact about his military obligation, but I’ll bet any elite military would dread the possibility of fighting men like him motivated by the defense of their homeland. In the case of the Legion, it’s quite explicit about what it is and I’m glad there’s an organization to put to constructive use men who like to fight (and they do exist).

    Insofar as the U.S. is concerned, I’m inclined to agree with the Sakers’s premises, without the hyperbolic rhetoric. It’s interesting that the American public fetishizes veterans in inverse proportion to its understanding of what the military is actually doing.

  58. anonymous[333] • Disclaimer says:

    Since 1945 there has not been a single situation in which US soldiers defended their land

    Not since ’45 but all along from the very beginning. It’s all been wars of aggression such as the Spanish-American “war”.
    This “thanks for your service” routine usually comes from those who never were in the military and would never join in a million years. It’s some sort of affectation on the part of those who’ve seen one too many war movies. It’s a rather fake sentiment.
    Insofar as liking those wars that are won and bring benefits and forgetting those that were bad experiences isn’t uniquely American. Most groups of people are like that. But yeah, join up and get injured don’t blame anyone else for it. You rolled the dice. It would be best if no one joined and let the bosses fight it out themselves but that’s not going to happen; they’ll figure out a way to get the cannon-fodder they need.

  59. eah says:

    It’s a genre of virtue signaling.

    • Agree: Biff
  60. Sorry Saker but you missed the reason why the USA fights more wars, aggressions and tries to overthrow governments: One, Two, Three, Four Who are We Fighting For——The Jews. So if you want to attack the US or most countries remember who controls the world’s banks, financial pathways, and lusts for total control….it’s the Neocons, it was Kissinger and it’s still the same whatever the Jews want the Jews get. And you missed the important part of history.

  61. Da Wei says:

    “(T)he truth is that no US serviceman or woman has fought a war in defense of the US since at least WWII (and even this one is very debatable considering that the US forced Japan to wage war and since the attack on Pearl Harbor was set-up as a pretext to then attack Japan).”

    The deal between the government and the citizenry is a contractual agreement, so contract theory should apply. In respect to your cogent argument, here is my take on that application.

    From Pearl Harbor to the phony Gulf of Tonkein Resolution through the ridiculous Domino Theory, 911 and WMD, right to the present there is a distinct element of fraud that invalidates the call to all the ensuing wars and that is Fraud in the Inducement. A contract is invalid if you are fraudulently induced to engage in it. That gives all GIs and citizens the moral right of redress against the government that lied them into war. It’s been tried in court (USSC: Sullivan v McNamara) and didn’t fly, because the SC sold out.

    Governments are corrupt entities, but citizens are free moral agents. Your argument is correct: when you enlist you assign your moral agency and agree to be used by whomever you have submitted to. Smedley Butler is a true hero who went to the mountain and returned to lead people to truth: war is a racket.

    I like this article. We need to cultivate a spirit of resistance to the bullshit that parades before us. It’s a scam and we should be cautious of anyone in epaulets.

    • Agree: Herald
  62. The scalpel says: • Website
    @Anonymous

    He was no less a combet soldier than the company supply officer. How many people did the people he saved kill? How proud he was of his war medal! He should have set the example by refusing to participate as a soldier. What would Jesus have done? How many children did he inspire to become soldiers?

    • Replies: @David In TN
  63. Johann says:
    @Renoman

    Absolutely correct. The impoverished countries of Ireland and Scotland along with the slums of London provided the bulk of the British Imperial Army. These poor sods had the choice of starvation or a bloody battlefield death and they died by the millions in order to keep the ruling class rich. I will grant the British upper class officers a pass because so many of them died in the trenches because of their indoctrination in the “dulce et decora est” public school education.

  64. @Intelligent Dasein

    To answer your question, no, I’m not an idiot. But you’re a needlessly rude asshole and I won’t bother further. Get a grip, man.

    • Replies: @Johnny Rico
  65. @Intelligent Dasein

    Refusing to support the Roman Catholic Church means throwing away salvation? Please. Just as much a zealot as the Saker, and he’s more in the right on the RCC as a longtime destructive, corrupt, morally/sexually perverse institution (Though not his needlessly intemperate attacks on those two figures).

    • Agree: Stonehands
  66. Canon Fodder for OUR FRIEND ISRAEL!!!! …..This is Donald Trump’s MAGA!!! jobs program for Working Class Native Born White Christian American Teenage Males…

    Donald Trump is a filthy dirty cockroach…..and he….or perhaps I should write….it….forms a cockroach breeding pair with Hillary Clinton in the post-human-post nuclear WW 3 Planet Cockroach 3 billion year reign…….When they both emerge out of the concrete bunker the stench of rotting human flesh will act as a pheromone that induces the cockroach breeding instinct……..Hillary starts mounting Donald with her cockroach vital fluids………….this is the endgame……..it is surely comming……

  67. @War for Blair Mountain

    And I’ll tell ya…….this future ain’t groovy at all man……

  68. @Gregory

    What country–this last century or so–is really capable of invading the US?

    None--because of our military. If the Army, Navy and Air Force were to completely disband, any number of countries could land troops. Might have a hard time pacifying the whole country, but they could do a hell of a lot of looting.

    Of course, we could cut our forces by 90% or more and still have enough to be a giant Switzerland.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    , @Stonehands
  69. Paul2 says:

    I am amazed that there seem still to be people who believe the official 9/11 propaganda bull*.

    • Replies: @Old Smokey
  70. Paul2 says:
    @Frederick V. Reed

    It is just one of the ridiculous pseudo-arguments of the 9/11-deniers or false-flag-deniers that you demand some explanation that somehow you claim has not been given.

    It is totally obvious and undeniable that WTC1, 2 and 7 were destroyed by pre-placed explosives.

    Re WTC7 a controlled demolition is the only way a building can “collapse” in free-fall.

    Re WTC 1+2 you can SEE and HEAR the demolition in the video footage. Plus constant acceleration an 2/3 of gravity, lateral and upward ejections of huge steel elements, total pulverisation of the concrete, destruction without a trace of a lot of the victims inside the buildings, bone fragments on top of adjacent buildings, fires that burned for months, … give me a break.

    Specifically we even know about the use of Nano-Thermite as one of the tools used, because traced of it and masses of its reaction-products have been found in the dust of 9/11 in NY.

    I think only a person who is totally uneducated or ignorant, or brain-washed, or simply stupid can believe the “official” narrative.

  71. How about the VA settle the medical and disability claims in the same fashion as workman’s comp looks after civilian workers? A Veteran isn’t even equal to a civilian in terms of the industrial-strength workplace, even though a Veteran’s workplace conditions are the worst and most dangerous of all, equal to fire fighters. Cops, Fire fighters are cared for for life for their injuries, but not Veterans. A Veteran shouldn’t have the same care as the Congressmen who vote the dough to send them off after they’re “hired”? Really!

    So, Saker, without waving the flag, since you didn’t mention any of that while making the case that Vets are just hired hands, I’ll simply recognize your hatred and tell you to go fuck yourself.

  72. Jett Rucker says: • Website

    I (a veteran) didn’t commit my crimes for money. I committed them to avoid having to go to jail.

    Y’see, for me (born 1945), there was a draft in the US (also called the “military obligation”). Aside from facing jail, a male my age then couldn’t even get a job (the money, if you like) if one couldn’t document that one had either served his military obligation or, like Bill Clinton or Donald Trump, dodged it in some other way.

    The Saker doesn’t mention people like me, who even today number in the hundreds of thousands, if not millions.

    Maybe the difference doesn’t register with him. Maybe there is little difference, but somehow, I feel there is. But I do regret my crimes, in every way possible.

    • Replies: @JVC
  73. Lots of butthurt and name-calling on this thread ! Truth hurts.

  74. @RadicalCenter

    “I won’t bother further”

    So should we ignore comment #68? Asking for a friend.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  75. @Rex Little

    German U-Boats did a lot of sinkings up and down the Florida coastline in WW2, and put spies onshore on Long Island; both were close enough to call them an attack on The Homeland.

  76. @Rex Little

    “None–because of our military. If the Army, Navy and Air Force were to completely disband, any number of countries could land troops. Might have a hard time pacifying the whole country, but they could do a hell of a lot of looting.”

    Yeah, they’re doing a bang-up job stopping the invasion at Tijuanna.

  77. peterAUS says:

    Overall, a good article, IMHO (save a couple of minor details which doesn’t change the main points).

    The crux, probably, is (slightly edited):

    The very nature of the US economy is based on war and has always been based on war. The so-called “American way of life” but without wars of aggression has never been attempted in the past, and it won’t be attempted for as long as the US remains the cornerstone of the AngloZionist Empire and the world hegemony it seeks to impose on the rest of mankind. But until that day arrives the “American way of life” will always imply wars of aggression and the mass murder of innocent people whose only “sin” is to dare to not want to be a part of the Empire.

    Now….there IS a point he carefully avoids along his usual angle “Bad Anglos”. ALL Empires have done the same. That’s the very definition of Empire. Hehe…including his bellowed (from away, naturally, in USA of all places) Russia.

  78. peterAUS says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    War is a nasty business to be sure, and is the occasion of many crimes and injustices, but it is not a racket in the sense here intended. Even a war fought for the openly crass reason of protecting one’s own economic interests is hardly a uniquely evil event. It may be a deplorable fact of life, but you have to ask yourself: What else did you think was going to happen? Are the powerful of the world going to just sit by and watch their fortunes be destroyed? Are the potentates of the Banana Republics that Smedley Butler campaigned in any different in their aims or any less ferocious in their means? No, of course not. So spare me all the sanctimonious crap. This is the way the world works, and the choice before every individual, before every nation, is only to fight or to surrender. There is no third alternative.

    Most soldiers all throughout history have been mercenaries in the sense that they fought primarily because it was a job, one they thought they could do well at, and one that offered the prospects of adventure as well as a paycheck.

    ..the profession of arms was considered a calling like any other, perhaps not the noblest calling but certainly a legitimate one. Like the peasant and the artisan and the tradesman, his existence was a permanent fixture of normal social organization. There is something already quite morbid about asking why he exists, let alone criticizing the fact that he exists.

    Yup.

    No less than any SJW, the Saker is only exhorting you to despise yourself and you have heartily consented.

    ….an internet crank who guilt-trips the enervated sons of Europe into rejecting their heritage..

    Hehe……don’t say.

  79. peterAUS says:
    @Tulip

    At one hand that is correct.
    At the other, well, shouldn’t somebody work on something better ?

    If for no other reason but: there is only one ending along that path. Blame Oppenheimer.

  80. @nsa

    What is your claim to fame nsa? The National Institute of Standards and Technology has written an exhaustive report debunking the idea that WTC 7 was brought down by a controlled explosion. That probably does not mean anything to someone convinced otherwise.

  81. @NoseytheDuke

    I understand a pseudonym like Simply Simon will engender flames from the unwashed on this site. I agree there are many articles concerning 9/11 on UR, some learned and others pure BS.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  82. Gregory says:

    Nonsense. But let’s suppose that the US had no imperial military. So in that case, the US would face the “threat” (Americans’ favorite word) of a Canadian, or Mexican, or Guatemalan, or Nicaraguan or Chinese! or Russian!! invasion? Clearly, you have no idea of what the military invasion of a country really entails, nor have you any sense of what the consequences of such actions have been historically.

    “Sweep on, you fat and greasy citizens!”

  83. JVC says:
    @Jett Rucker

    It surprised me that the Saker did not acknowledge the millions of draftee’s–not just we who are of the Vietnam generation, but going back to the war of northern aggression. The military draft is akin to slavery, in that the other choices are jail or fleeing the country.

    I don’t need or want any thanks for my time in hell–especially 40-50 years late. I was part of an obscene violation of another countries sovereignty, and some of what I did and saw still haunts me to this day. Many other vets I know feel the same way.

    Aside from that one omission, Saker is pretty much spot on. Of course, as several commentators show, the truth is not always welcome. Smedly Butler is one of my military heroes for speaking truth to power. The so called war on terror is a wet dream come true for the mic we were warned about so many years ago

    As for those out there who are still denying what was obvious to some on 9-11-2001, a new book out could be very enlightening. 9/11 Unmasked takes various aspects of the official “story” and presents the evidence that puts the lie to that “story” Read with an open mind if you dare.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  84. Patricus says:

    It is petty to identify all soldiers as active war criminals or as enablers. In this country the military actions are ordered by elected representatives. The military men obey the orders of civilian leaders. No doubt many question the wisdom of the orders given but they accept that it is not their decision where and when to fight. God help the world if decisions were made by military hierarchies.

    Unfortunately effective military action requires hierarchies. If every soldier made his own tactical decisions a military force would be ineffective. Most would run or quit when the ordinance was incoming.

    Many join the military because there are limited economic opportunities, and there are some who are rather dull and wouldn’t fare well in market competition for labor. Don’t we all find employment because we need some money and there are limited ways to earn. Personally I’d like to be an astrophysicist and spend my working days on interesting and fulfilling problems. It would also be pleasant if all tedious tasks were done by others. Alas the market for this profession is tiny. I had to work where there was a market for my services and I experienced plenty of drudgery including working for idiotic bosses.

    The soldier or sailor lives in a kind of monastic order. He must obey the hierarchy even when these leaders are incompetent. He faces the possibility of death or serious injury even if he supplies soda machines on a ship. Some respect is due to one who accepts this discipline. He accepts, by his actions, the primacy of civilian control of war-making. He should be censored if he commits atrocities but can’t be held accountable for political decisions by others.

    Jeering at sargeants or lieutenants might feel good but it is a fatuous frame of mind. We always have needed soldiers and that is not going to change.

    One legitimate post WW II action was the first Gulf War. Bush the elder received the congressional approval. At the time almost everyone believed there was finite oil in the world. Iraq invaded Kuwait then massed troops on the Saudi border. That was a threat to our perceived interests. Once Saddam was vanguished Bush had the sense to refrain fron invading Iraq. I don’t like Bush I much but he did the right things given the knowledge available at the time.

  85. @Simply Simon

    And with you here clearly unable to discern which is which. Simple is as simple does.

  86. @JLK

    At 7.5 gallons per cubic foot, 10,000 gal / 7.5 =1,333 cu. ft.

    1,333*.3333 = 11 ft.

    So a cube 11′ x 11′ x 11′ would hold 10,000 gallons of liquid.

    The picture looks accurate, or accurate enough to get the point across.

    Hard to imagine that quantity of fuel bringing down the towers, especially in as much as most of it was probably burned up in the initial explosion.

    • Agree: JLK
    • Replies: @Z-man
  87. @Patricus

    Yes but wasn’t it the US dominated proceedings that established the precedent that “just following orders” was an unacceptable defence and wasn’t it a US dominated military coalition punishment that caused many thousands of deaths by starvation and exposure post WWII?

    Why should the US get to have it both ways?

  88. “Blessed are the peacemakers,
    For they shall be called sons of God.” Matt 5:9

  89. @Johnny Rico

    Yes, you in particular should ignore the comment. Excellent screen name, though. Just read the Starship Troopers book for the first time earlier this year and enjoyed it thoroughly, though I was surprised how short it was. Would have liked a series of books along those lines.

  90. Tulip says:
    @Kiza

    until US ends up taking on some real “enemy” who will bring this taboo down but not with words then with “Kinetic Action” that will turn the tables on US shitbag military.

    Yeah, I see them all lining up outside my house right now!

    No, if America goes down, it will be from enemies within.

    • Replies: @Kiza
  91. @NoseytheDuke

    It has been done. The burning jet fuel caused the floor trusses to sag. These same trusses provided lateral support to the exterior columns. When the trusses sagged, they pulled the columns inward, the columns buckled and a section two to three stories tall collapsed. This initiated the progressive pancaking.

    The columns were not designed to be two stories tall, or three stories tall between lateral supports, only one. No shear connection was designed to withstand the dynamic load of the entire upper 1/3 of the structure. North tower was struck first between floors 93 and 99. South tower was struck later between floors 77 and 85. South tower columns had a greater load; they failed completely less than an hour after impact, before the north tower, which failed 102 minutes after impact.

    The collapse initiated where the jets struck the towers. Different floor for each tower. Tower where the unsupported columns had more floors above failed in a shorter amount of time.

    If anyone wants to learn the basics, look up “kl/r” also known as slenderness ratio, and “p-delta” also known as secondary moments.

    Unless you think the hijackers were such good pilots that they flew the jets into the exact location of the hypothetical demolitions, then you must conclude the failure of the WTC towers was completely consistent with structural theory and obvious cause, the jet impacts.

    So there.

  92. Enirely concur with your lucid article. One might add (perhaps in another article), that for the simple reason of being an empire, the US is a violent rogue state. After all, empires are ipso facto violent, since they must keep a variety of other states and peoples under permanent control and this can only be achieved by way of violence.

    Here, an empire works exactly like a maffia family: the boss is the supreme authority deciding over life and death. Whoever stands up to him is annihilated, mutilated, or humiliated. In inverse order, these are the three stages of violence at the disposal of the boss. If he wants to preserve his authority, he is compelled to use these techniques, which makes him, in a sense also the victim of the system he represents.

    So it is with the US empire. The leader in the White Madhouse has no choice but to export mass murder to all corners of the world. Not doing so would entail the collapse of the imperial system.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  93. SafeNow says:

    And don’t forget WTC Bldg 7, which was not hit by a fuel-leaking plane at all, and yet pancaked down just like the towers. And by the way, a BBC reporter reported the bldg 7 collapse occurred — past tense — 20 minutes BEFORE the collapse happened. Oops.

    • Replies: @Anon
  94. Deceitful and unjust men.
    NIST has written blah blah disapproving this or that but what brought down WTC bldg 7?
    The answer to that answers the conspiracy. Whether controlled demolition, or nano-nukes or ………… proves the conspiracy.
    The getting did if the evidence so forensics can be done proves the conspiracy.
    I could go on and on.
    Conclusion – right for me wrong for thee. Don’t do unto me what I do unto you. And while I am wronging you, I will call it holy, righteous, truthful and right. But if u do unto me the same, it is evil pure evil

  95. Kiza says:
    @Patricus

    The usual mix of bullshit and propaganda.

  96. @James Speaks

    So nothing, other than thank you for proving without a doubt that you are incapable of independent thought. Don’t take this wrongly but you’re a fool.

    Anyway, this article is not about 9/11 but there are some excellent articles on 9/11 on this excellent site that you can read along with the comments and after reading them you should be better informed, though it’s highly likely that your low brain wattage will be a huge impediment to that happening. Good luck..

    • Troll: James Speaks
    • Replies: @James Speaks
    , @lavoisier
  97. Kiza says:
    @Tulip

    I would not disagree with you completely, although I doubt that the Chinese and the Russians would have the foresight to finish off the US cesspool when given an internal chance.

    But my main point was that the human-looking smelly excrement always calls upon the higher authority of God when doing the worst possible crimes. This is where US excells even over its Western “partners” – the utilitarianism of religion – that is employing God in the collective endeavours of rape, pillage and murder. This is the main reason I am anti-religious although not atheist at all.

    “God bless you for your service of rape, pillage and murder for our shared profit and enjoyment.”

    Stop accusing the war profiteers for the wars and understand that it is the whole horrible society.

  98. @Patricus

    The “First Gulf War” was as illegitimate and illegal an operation as all the other US acts of international piracy during the 20th century. Bush I is as much a war criminal as Bush II.

    The entire First Gulf War was a set-up, a trap, designed to give the US a permanent foothold in the region. At the expense of thousands of human lives. During an interview the US diplomat April Glaspie had with Saddam immediately before he invaded Kuweit, she did not voice any objections to his designs. Thus Saddam was led to believe he could count on US support.

    Yet mind you, I do not suggest Saddam would be a more decent person than either Bush II or his daddy. A guy like Saddam, who appoints as his official food taster the son of the palace cook is truly a perverted individual. And like most politicians in high office everywhere and at all times, he was also a psychopath and did not shirk from killing fellow human beings. Often for futile reasons.

    • Replies: @Tom Welsh
  99. @James Speaks

    9/11 Truthers are a weirdo cult that believes the NIST Scientists was in cohoots with the retard Bush Family to kill nearly three thousand Americans on 9/11.

    The 9/11 Truther “Scientists” are a scam artists who publish in a weirdo vanity scientific journal….I’ve already discussed-debated this point three years ago with the weirdo 9/11 Truthers in the comment section of Unz Review…

    9/11 happened for the same reason the earlier 1993 attack on the Twin Towers happened:Muslims were allowed into America so they can vote The Working Class Native Born White Christian American Majority into a White Racial Foreigner-White Racial Minority within the borders of America…

    • Replies: @Herald
  100. Now Augustine of Hippo and Thomas Aquinas are hardly heroes of mine, but they are considered as very authoritative in western philosophical thought.

    Birds gotta fly
    Fish got swim
    Orthos rather die
    Than not insult on a whim

  101. The scalpel says: • Website
    @Patricus

    “He must obey the hierarchy even when these leaders are incompetent. He faces the possibility of death or serious injury even if he supplies soda machines on a ship. Some respect is due to one who accepts this discipline. ”

    So a person voluntarily gives up his/her freedom of action and freedom to make moral choices and “some respect is due” ? You, sir, are a brainwashed fool and you desreve to be killed by one of these lazy, ammoral, toadies. Your justification for these losers to join the military is because they lack the confidence and ability to feed themselves any other way and that they have such low levels of morality that they would gladly give up those crumbs for shit on a shingle?

    And the “humans” (I use the term loosely) who do this are due respect? These lazy, ammoral, shit eaters would gladly kill other people who have made the not so difficult choice to use their god-given skills and abilities to survive in a peaceful manner trying to avoid harming others.

    I say better these these lazy, murderous, automatons, these moral mutants, this pestilence on the human race be enclosed in a stadium and encouraged to fight each other until they are all dead except one – then castrate him/ (or her in the case of Hillary Clinton.)

    I say people like you, Patricus, who ignorantly give them “due respect” should voluntarily live in an active war zone where you can experience first hand what the world would be like if your “heroes ” were unrestrained. That would show them “due respect” instead of encouraging them to bring down their hell on peaceful other people you do not know or care about

    • Replies: @Patricus
    , @Patricus
  102. https://21stcenturywire.com/2018/11/17/unhinged-decorated-navy-seal-to-stand-trial-for-war-crimes-in-iraq/

    A few bad apples, tsk tsk tsk, and the government’s systematic brutalization program will be cast in bad light.

    • Replies: @The Scalpel
  103. The scalpel says: • Website
    @Patricus

    “Unfortunately effective military action requires hierarchies. If every soldier made his own tactical decisions a military force would be ineffective. ”

    With emphasis on the word “every,” what is wrong with that scenario? I suspect you Patricus, are an over-the-hill lazy, amoral, automaton, shit-eater. You are pathetically trying to justify your own existence. I am calling you out. You can go to hell.

    I will pre-emptively head off the stupid “if one side did this, then the other side would win” argument. That would never happen anyway. Both “sides” should be encouraged to use their consciences and refuse to be military tools. This will gradually thin the ranks on both sides decreasing the level of violence until only the most violent are left to kill each other off.

    Nukes pose a bit of a dilemma, but along the same lines, one should refuse to be the first to “press the button” and should resist anyone else who tries to do it

  104. The scalpel says: • Website
    @peterAUS

    I vomited after I read that. I thought more of you. Sad

  105. pyrrhus says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    “Just following orders” is a perfect defense as long as you are part of the Anglo-Zionist military…Others need not apply.

  106. The Scalpel says: • Website
    @Psycho killers

    His crime was not what he did, of course, but that he did not have orders LOL His defense will not be that he did not do these things, but that he did have orders to do them, or at least he seemed to. How could we blame him? He is not responsible, according to Patricus. He gave up his moral sense and his ability to act independently to his commanders. Put Obama in jail! He is the one responsible!

    Still, I bet this guy gets off with some slap on the wrist because he is otherwise a hero, you know.

  107. There is nothing particularly novel, insightful, or useful in this article. Anyone who has studied the matter would come to essentially the same conclusions (perhaps verbalized with less venom). Does “The Saker” really imagine that he is the first person who has thought to quote the principles of the Nuremberg Trials and rhetorically apply them to acts of international aggression committed by rogue officials of the United States since World War II? Does he expect applause for stating the obvious? The important questions–which (one is tempted to say “of course”) he does not raise, let alone attempt to answer–are: (i) how did this sorry state of affairs come about; and (ii) what is to be done to correct the situation? “The Saker” says he has lived in the United States for 21 years. In that time, has he ever thought about what failures or refusals on the part of the American people to enforce what provisions of their own Constitution have led to this pass? If he does have any worthwhile thoughts on that, he ought to impart them to his audience.

  108. peterAUS says:
    @Hans Vogel

    You are probably onto something here.
    Especially with:

    …all, empires are ipso facto violent, since they must keep a variety of other states and peoples under permanent control and this can only be achieved by way of violence.

    If he wants to preserve his authority, he is compelled to use these techniques, which makes him, in a sense also the victim of the system he represents.

    Not doing so would entail the collapse of the imperial system.

    Locked.

  109. This is like something an undergraduate would write.
    It’s like taking history and running it through an “all I needed to know I learned in kindergarten” filter.

    The U.S.A. is a powerful empire. It is expansionist. It’s no different from the British, Soviets, Chinese, etc. None of this is new information to anyone. If it is, you are retarded for just now coming to these conclusions. You should have understood all of this by your early twenties.
    We thank the veterans because, at an instinctual level; they are the warriors of our tribe. Guilt over expansion isn’t sincere; we know that Russians have and would eagerly engage in the same behavior, were they as powerful. “The weak must do what they must.”

    I read his stupid justification for living in our country. We need a law forbidding foreigners from speaking on our political affairs. It is not, and never will be, their call. The author is clearly a Russian nationalist, which is a great thing, but that belongs in Russia.
    American nationalism alone should exist here. The entire problem is that there are so many paper Americans here that our country has become corrupted beyond its original purpose; even before WWII, (((Americans))) had power, which is the reason for our poor actions against Japan. I’ve long supported dismantling the empire, but only because it is impoverishing our people, and we need those troops here to eject the millions of invaders, and guard the border. The empire is also a tool for (((you know who))).
    Finally, a foreigner criticizing the U.S. military, while living in the U.S.A., is like going into your neighbor’s home and accusing him of being an alcoholic. He may very well be, but it’s not your place to say so. Once you cross over our border, any allegiance to a foreign power needs to end. Even if we make one of those Matryoshka dolls of your mother being plowed by one of our negroes, you better keep quiet. Because in truth, you are not wanted here. There is no benefit to me for Russians to be here.
    Heritage Americans understand that these veterans are our hoplites, regardless of the wars they have fought in. If you don’t have that national bond, it’s time to admit it, pack up, and go back to a nation that you can identify with. One where you don’t feel the urge to talk trash about the most brilliant saints of the Church. Yes Catholicism is lost, and the pope a hopeless cuck, but unlike the author, I’m not Russian. Converting to Russian Orthodoxy, even inside the U.S., is a process rife with hostility.
    They have to go back. If you value Peter the Great more than Thomas Jefferson, great, but you have to go back.

  110. peterAUS says:
    @Edwin Vieira

    The important questions–which (one is tempted to say “of course”) he does not raise, let alone attempt to answer–are: (i) how did this sorry state of affairs come about; and (ii) what is to be done to correct the situation?

    Ah, you see….that’s not Saker’s job. One of posters here already said what it is. Scroll up and you’ll find it with ease.

    And, those are definitely THE QUESTIONS. The second more important than the first.
    Any ideas of yours?

    Probably related to

    ….what failures or refusals on the part of the American people to enforce what provisions of their own Constitution have led to this pass?

    I guess.

    I believe it has something to do with what happened to Rome once upon a time.
    Or any such entity.

    Even if we simply focus on military: comparing militia from The American Revolutionary War with early Roman military and current US military with legions of, say, Augustus.
    Complex topics, of course.

    And, there IS one aditional element too Saker types will never touch: is there a need for a World Policeman? I think there is (human nature, nukes and such). The catch is, of course, who‘s going to be that one. Or better, who is going to control the cop. Even better, who and how, is going to control the controllers.
    Sounds complicated so irrelevant for most posters here. Better to focus on “bad Anglos” or “terrible Joos”. Or whatever.

    Saker’s angle, and the resident “Team Russia” of course is, no need for World Policeman. They’d like three equal cops policing their own parts of the world. Saker cop “managing” that region from Vladivostok to, say…….current German/Austrian/Italian/Greek border.
    Chinese even “better”: area up and including Tasmania and Stuart Island.
    Hehe…not that they’ll ever admit that.

    • Replies: @Tom Welsh
  111. Fhilaerene says: • Website

    If your country is weak, the credibility of your criticisms is comporomised.
    Of course, you don’t accept the U.S. military. However, you have zero authority to employ the Alinskyite tactic of “hold them to their own ideals.”

    This is why the only foreigners besides tourists and students, who should be allowed here, are those who benefit Heritage Americans.

    Russia is most definitely the “good guy” overall. I’ve been saying that for years, but we criticize the Neocons and even more influential (((neocons))), not our own soldiers. It doesn’t matter if they’ve murdered entire towns overseas, not to most people. This is indisputably true for every country on Earth.

    Soldiers rescue you when you’re in a giant fish bowl
    that has been hit by a cat. 5 hurricane, or when a tornado levels your town. They protect you from invasion under normative circumstances; the current circumstances, of the military and government standing by while millions of third world invaders flood our land, isn’t a typical one, and even then, it is only made possible by (((propagandists)))

    • Replies: @Herald
    , @Tom Welsh
  112. @Frederick V. Reed

    “Regarding Nine-Eleven: Until someone who actually know the business of controlled demolition shows what specifically would have been needed, used how without being noticed, to produce the collapse, it will remain just another empty conspiracy theory.”

    If it’s an “empty conspiracy theory” then it obviously doesn’t need an investigation, right? And without an investigation no details as to exactly how when, where, why, etc., will likely be forthcoming, thus it’s just an “empty conspiracy theory”…and being that it’s just an empty conspiracy theory it obviously doesn’t need an investigation, and without an investigation no details as to exactly how when, where, why, etc., will likely be forthcoming, thus it’s just an “empty conspiracy theory”…and being that it’s just an empty conspiracy theory it obviously doesn’t need an investigation, and without an investigation no details as to exactly how when, where, why, etc., will likely be forthcoming, thus it’s just an “empty conspiracy theory”…and on and on forever.

    • Replies: @Den Lille Abe
  113. @Frederick V. Reed

    “Regarding Nine-Eleven: Until someone who actually know the business of controlled demolition shows what specifically would have been needed, used how without being noticed, to produce the collapse, it will remain just another empty conspiracy theory.”

    I wonder if Fred’s house burnt down under suspicious circumstances, e.g., there was some evidence that an accelerant was involved; and neighbors reported suspicious activity near the house before the fire started; and then Fred had the debris hauled away before it could be examined; and as a matter of public record Fred announced beforehand that his house might burn down; and Fred was known to be having financial problems; and Fred was caught telling a lie about the circumstances; and Fred sought to collect a huge insurance payment, etc.; would the state police fire marshal dismiss it all as an “empty conspiracy theory”. I think not; rather, I think Fred would be in some serious trouble.

    • Agree: The Scalpel
  114. @wholy1

    Lots of people escaped to Canada, for example rather than serve the empire. Would you rather murder people in Vietnam for the corrupt U.S. “government” (or be killed by someone defending their country from invaders), or go to Canada? I would’ve chosen Canada.

    • Replies: @wholy1
    , @David In TN
  115. The Scalpel says: • Website
    @Fhilaerene

    “We need a law forbidding foreigners from speaking on our political affairs.”

    You are a fool.

    I think you might be a good individualist though. At least you have a sense of self. Quit trying to speak for “Americans” (Who left you in charge of defining who is “American”?)and instead, speak for yourself. It would sound much less stupid.

  116. @James Speaks

    “The burning jet fuel caused the floor trusses to sag.”

    No it didn’t; most or all of the jet fuel burnt up in a cloud outside of the buildings.

    By the way, as a threshold issue, if 9/11 was “legitimate” why did the perpetrators have to go through the trouble and take the risk of putting imposter Hymie Brown on national TV, falsely claiming him to be the “architect” and “project engineer” of the towers, and having him tell lies about the towers?

  117. The Scalpel says: • Website

    “an airplane crash never entered anyone’s mind”

    Buffoon Bush comical talking point

    I guess that is because no other tall buildings in NYC, such as the Empire State Building, for example, ever had a plane fly into them.

  118. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says: • Website

    It’s true that many join the military for benefits. This is esp true of Negroes and Browns.

    But many whites join because they like the culture of Brotherhood. And these types tend to be patriotic and gung-ho. Of course, they are often clueless about how their patriotic feelings are being manipulated by globalists.

    It’d be nice to have a law that says that while all men must fight to defend the US from invasion, all overseas ventures must be voted on by men in the military.

    • Replies: @The Scalpel
    , @Tom Welsh
  119. peterAUS says:
    @Fhilaerene

    Good post.
    Just a touch harsh, perhaps, in a place or two.

  120. @Frederick V. Reed

    The only interesting question remaining about 911 is whether the same group who planned the destruction of the twin towers also demolished WTC 7. Even though all three supposedly succumbed to fire, WTC 7 resembles a classic demolition while 1 and 2 exploded. These were obviously different techniques at work.

    I began to wonder if some rival faction within the establishment demolished WTC 7 just to spoil the cover story for the Bin Laden angle for leverage in other areas, or the did the perpetrators themselves do it so the American people would have no plausible deniability when the day of reckoning finally comes? After all, what sort of infantile and wicked population could allow the crimes committed by its government after such a preposterous false flag operation? Surely, they deserve to be stripped of everything they have (especially Social Security ;).

  121. Anon[218] • Disclaimer says:
    @SafeNow

    “And don’t forget WTC Bldg 7, which was not hit by a fuel-leaking plane at all, and yet pancaked down just like the towers. And by the way, a BBC reporter reported the bldg 7 collapse occurred — past tense — 20 minutes BEFORE the collapse happened. Oops.”

    This is truly the deciding argument for me, how can anyone not believe a conspiracy was afoot that day when the BBC got their signals crossed and reported a completely unlikely event before it actually happened?

    • Replies: @Curmudgeon
  122. The Scalpel says: • Website
    @Anon

    I agree. That would be a step in the right direction

  123. JLK says:

    Everybody is entitled to an opinion, but if the government is sending people to sow confusion on the collapse of these buildings it is a criminal offense and should be prosecuted as such.

  124. wholy1 says:
    @Harold Smith

    Yup, wish a had “copped out” also. Didn’t know any better at the time – ya know, the “red/white/blue” / “mom’s apple pie” BS. But [lefty lib-turd land] Canada/Sweden?! NOT! Left my heart in SE Asia after the ‘Nam stint, but too old to go back now. Such is “life”. Just happy to be inland, rural, grouped/[Remnant]GATHERED, gunned and gardened now – “growing it is knowing it”; and . . . a little closer to Home everyday! Hoo-rah.

  125. @Intelligent Dasein

    Writing a lot of shit doesn’t make it less shitty. And writing a lot of imbecilic nonsense doesn’t make it not imbecilic nonsense. I mean it. Makes no sense. You just like the sound of your hands typing.

    • Replies: @hunor
  126. @The scalpel

    Was the Japanese WW II military made up of angels from heaven?

  127. Wally says:
    @Anon

    “But in a world of empires, the US empire preferable to the German, Japanese, Russian, and Spanish.”

    Really?

    Please explain.

    • Replies: @Tom Welsh
  128. Wally says:
    @Realist

    “Since 1945 there has not been a single situation in which US soldiers defended their land, their towns, their families or their friends from an aggressor. Not one!”

    We didn’t do so in WWI & II either.

    • Replies: @Carroll Price
  129. @Harold Smith

    “Lots of people escaped to Canada, for example rather than serve the empire.”

    From 30,000 to 40,000 Canadians came to America during the Vietnam War and volunteered for the U.S. Military.

    • Replies: @wholy1
  130. Wally says:
    @Dutch Boy

    A job that the German Bundeswehr could of, should have done itself.

    You epitomize the utter waste of taxpayers dollar.

    No thanks.

  131. hunor says:
    @obwandiyag

    This is your chance , to show us how to write something that make sense , something
    intelligent, something not shitty . Humanity is desperately , eagerly waiting, to hear
    your wisdom . Please don’t let us wait any longer , put it on the table of humanity
    all that enlightened life experience that you possess . Be our hero and share all that
    high IQ mental process , that is missing from us simpletons.
    ” As you think you are “.

  132. @Fidelios Automata

    I agree 100%. I had to deal with a world war II veteran the other day. I treated him as respectfully as I would treat anyone else…..but I refused thank him for his “service” in a war I’m no longer sure was necessary.

  133. Z-man says:
    @ThreeCranes

    The two planes were two large armored napalm tanks. The WTC was built with a fancy high tech, for the times, lightweight space truss frame. The impact, explosions and subsequent fire melted/destroyed enough of the structure to bring it down. Two WTC went down first even though it was hit second because the plane hit lower and at an angle with more damage to more floors and more mass above to accelerate the collapse. I was there after the collapse that day. We tried to help the FDNY, but there was nothing we could do. We weren’t first responders. We left them a few big containers of water, patted them on the back walked around the site and then went back to our home base at JFK. I had to take a detour home as the GWB was closed and didn’t get home until 7 PM. My wife & neighbors were waiting for me and I told them ‘it was a terrible sight, cops with shotguns at Federal Hall and buildings burning.’

  134. Wally says:
    @Tulip

    Yet you, nor anyone else, have proof that the Germans killed those which they are said to have killed. Simple as that.
    In fact, when a debate occurs, your propaganda is trounced.

    American Pravda: Holocaust Denial, by Ron Unz: http://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/
    on Irving & ‘holocaust’: Ron Unz: A Defender of Truth: http://www.unz.com/announcement/the-remarkable-historiography-of-david-irving/
    Ron Unz: A Defender of Truth: The Remarkable Historiography of David Irving: http://www.unz.com/announcement/the-remarkable-historiography-of-david-irving/

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Tulip
    , @Tulip
  135. Wally says:
    @Quartermaster

    “The trade center towers did not show the signs of a controlled demolition.”

    You can’t really be that dumb.

    https://www.ae911truth.org/evidence/technical-articles/articles-by-ae911truth/199-60-structural-engineers

  136. In the US the military is deified, in other saner countries it is at best respected and supported and in some countries it is feared and avoided.
    The US is a country, that has been at war for most of its life. I believe only a mere 25 years of not waging or participating in a war. Hence its reverence for the military.
    And in wars a lot of money can be made, lets not forget that

    • Replies: @L.K
  137. The Saker seems like a foreign psychological warfare agent.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @peterAUS
  138. @Fhilaerene

    Quote from senseless comment:

    “We need a law forbidding foreigners from speaking on our political affairs.”

    No what we need is a friggen law that imposes death penalty on any US citizen ever leaving the US.
    The US is the main culprit of the misery and despair throughout the world, especially the ME too.

    Come to think of it, we should have for Israel citizens too.

  139. @Harold Smith

    Indeed! :) Seem to me you must have read Kafka.
    Else we use the one below.
    Someone said something like : We change reality faster than you percieve reality has changed.

    • Replies: @Tom Welsh
  140. @mijj

    As long as you understand that the Mafia is not an Italian construct, that would be correct.

  141. chris says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    Even a war fought for the openly crass reason of protecting one’s own economic interests is hardly a uniquely evil event. It may be a deplorable fact of life, but you have to ask yourself: What else did you think was going to happen? Are the powerful of the world going to just sit by and watch their fortunes be destroyed?

    Is the mob just going to sit by and watch as someone decides not to pay their protection money ? “what else did you think was going to happen?” Of course they’re going to place a horse’s head on their door step and if that doesn’t work they’ll put two bullet holes in his eye sockets.
    ID, don’t forget to thank your mafia soldier for his service on Veteran’s day! (Oh, and don’t forget to leave that protection money in the bucket behind the door like we talked about.)

    • LOL: Liza
  142. @Anon

    how can anyone not believe a conspiracy was afoot that day

    A conspiracy is two or more people working together to commit a criminal act. The official narrative of 9-11 is a conspiracy theory. Not a credible one, but conspiracy theory none the less.

    • Replies: @Wally
  143. What a snarky article by a weenie who lacked the cajones to serve.

    When I joined the military in the mid-70′s, it wasn’t for the benefits or the money; neither was particularly attractive, and with a lottery number north of 250, I wasn’t at risk of being drafted. I joined for three reasons–first, my dad had served in WWII in the infantry, so there was a bit of family history; second, because I hated Marxism and the Commies who threatened to bury us; and third, because I considered it my civic duty to serve. So, I found myself in in a nuclear ordnance unit in Europe, helping keep several hundred nukes at the ready to fly in an easterly direction to kill Commies if necessary. Of course, the whole idea wasn’t ever to vaporize eastern Europe, rather, it was to deter the Russians and their allies from attacking western Europe. Mission accomplished.

    As was the case with NATO in the 70′s, the primary mission of the military isn’t to fight wars; rather, it’s to deter others from starting a war in the first place. As was the case with the Commies 40 years ago, if we didn’t have a strong deterrent force (and the demonstrated will to use it) there are plenty of Mohammedans, Chinese and others who would dearly love to subdue us. And blowhards like Saker would be out of business, probably in a concentration camp somewhere, or dead. Unless, that is, they became collaborators.

    I do agree, however, on one thing: I didn’t and don’t need any Thank-you’s for my service. I don’t expect thanks for paying my income tax or driving on the right side of the road; those are civic duties. And to me, service in the military is a civic duty as well for able-bodied males. After I got out of the Army, all I ever wanted a modicum of respect for having performed my civid duty–not to be derided and called a fool or a fascist for having served. But a civilian again and a student in the late ’70s, that’s all I heard from my smartypants lib classmates. It wasn’t until 9/11, when people perceived (rightly or wrongly) that their pansy butts were at risk unless somebody was willing to fight or deter bad guys, that people started saying “Thank you for your service.”

    Saker, instead of calling people who served fools and fascists, calls us money-grubbing mercenaries. It would be annoying coming from anybody other than a guy who believes that 9/11 was some kind of CIA plot. My cat is smarter than that. And even Saker is smarter than to spout his malarky to a veteran’s face.

    • Agree: anarchyst
  144. @Anon

    As long as you live in America and not Vietnam, Iraq or Libya.

  145. @Edwin Vieira

    …to quote the principles of the Nuremberg Trials and rhetorically apply them to acts of international aggression…

    Both you and The Saker misrepresent what really happened. The “Nuremberg Trials” were military trials, unprecedented in history. The Nuremberg “Trials” had their own rules – the London Protocols which were the Tribunal’s Charter – in which “The Tribunal shall not be bound by technical rules of evidence […]. The Tribunal shall not require proof of facts of common knowledge but shall take judicial notice thereof”. Thousands of documents were forged, hearsay evidence treated as “common knowledge”, and prisoners tortured. They weren’t trials at all. They were, in the words of Harlan Fiske Stone, Chief Justice of the United States Supreme Court, a “high-grade lynching party”.
    Anything Jackson had to say should be taken with a grain of salt.

  146. Mike-SMO says:

    What the Saker reports is so disgusting that I am surprised that he doesn’t give up his dole from the nest of Capitalists and go back to drinking fermented potato juice in the Pripet [Pinsk] mud.

    • Replies: @Wally
  147. @Kiza

    “Did Saker really need to explain that US military is only about killing of the defenders and their innocent?”

    I don’t watch much TV but sometimes when I see it in the airport or in a restaurant they show commercials where US military personnel save people in disasters. I have never seen a commercial where they kill people. Every one may know what the military is really about but the military tries pretty hard to portray themselves otherwise.

    • Replies: @Wally
  148. Yes the American ruling class are sanctimonious hypocrites. Yes the US wages wars of aggression by the Nuremberg standard the US invented.

    If Russia ran the world things would be different, but I doubt they would be better.

    • Replies: @Tom Welsh
    , @Parbes
  149. ” since the attack on Pearl Harbor was set-up as a pretext to then attack Japan). ”
    Since FDR is his 1940 election promised not to ‘send USA boys overseas unless the USA was attacked’.
    On the Sunday of the attack the America First Committee understood quite well, as Lindbergh writes, he got a phone call: ‘he (FDR) got us into the (European) war through the back door’.
    Charles A. Lindbergh, ´The Wartime Journals of Charles A. Lindbergh’, New York, 1970
    Since the end of 1939 the USA navy was waging war in the Atlantic against Germany, but Hitler had given strict orders that his navy and airforce should not give FDR a pretext for war.
    Not quite sure, but I think
    Patrick Beesly, ‘Very special intelligence’, 1977 Londen
    describes the very close cooperation in the Atlantic between GB, navy and airforce, and FDR’s navy and airforce, beginning at the end of 1939.
    There was one incident between a German submarine and a USA navy vessel that nearly was serious enough for FDR to declare war.
    Few people, including myself until recently, know about Hitler’s attack on Russia, and Japanese war aims.
    Japan had promised Hitler to attack the USSR if Hitler had taken Moscow and was at the Volga, thus the desperate fight over Stalingrad.
    Robert J.C. Butow, ‘JAPAN’S Decision to Surrender’, Stanford, 1954
    F.W. Deakin and G.R. Storry, ‘The case of Richard Sorge’, New York, 1966
    If indeed Japan would have attacked Russia, I doubt.
    In any case, Hitler was very pleased with Pearl Harbour, really a surprise to him, it seems.
    That FDR’s provocation to Japan caused that Japan remained neutral towards the USSR until the beginning of 1945, the USSR annihition of the Kwantung Army, I wonder if Hitler ever realised this.

  150. @Fhilaerene

    ” The U.S.A. is a powerful empire. It is expansionist. It’s no different from the British, Soviets, Chinese, ”
    It is quite different from what the British empire was.
    The perfidous Britons built their empire not just on naked force, but on diplomacy, cunning, deceit, blackmail, bribery, propaganda, etc., than the USA.
    British people indeed were outraged when Gordon was killed at Khartoum.
    Far more outrage, is my impression, than USA people about the Vietnam defeat.

    • Replies: @Curmudgeon
  151. @Patricus

    Bush clearly intended to invade Iraq in 1990 and the Clinton presidency merely put this on hold for 9 years until Bush II was elected. The son was little more than a puppet for his father, his father’s donors and his father’s money. Bush II was merely an alcoholic bum. It was clearly his Dad’s oil interests controlling him.

  152. All of this applies equally, of course, to countries other than the US. For example, to Russia’s actions in, say, Ukraine or Transdniester, which this author spends most of his time defending.

    • Replies: @Wally
  153. @Simply Simon

    The Empire State Building has a steel frame designed using moment distribution. It was being designed as it was being built. Steel and labor were cheap during the Great Depression. Thus, the building could be overdesigned, and it was.

    • Replies: @Simply Simon
  154. @NoseytheDuke

    You know nothing about these topics:

    1. Slenderness ratio and Secondary moments.. Explains why a single strand of spaghetti that is short can sustain a greater axial load than a longer piece.

    2. Stress-strain relationship of steel versus temperature. Explains why steel is easier to bend even if heated only a few hundred degrees F.

    3. Shear connections. Shear is a stress perpindicular to a face. Most structural failures are shear failures.

    These are the mechanisms that explain the collapse of WTC 1 and 2, and probably 7. To comprehend requires math and 3-D visualization skills.

    You really should not talk about subjects beyond your level of cognition.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @NoseytheDuke
  155. Herald says:
    @Fhilaerene

    “It doesn’t matter if they’ve murdered entire towns overseas, not to most people.” It might well have mattered to those who have been murdered and it should it should matter to the rest of us. Soldiers and their political masters should not get a free pass for wanton murder.

  156. Pheasant says:

    ‘If it is a deniable defeat (say the US/NATO air operations against Serbian forces in Kosovo or the total clusterbleep in Grenada’

    The US was defeated in Grenada?

  157. Pheasant says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    ‘Most soldiers all throughout history have been mercenaries’

    Standing armies were not generally a thing untill comparatively recently

  158. mike k says:

    Bravo Saker! All your points are undeniably true and very clearly stated. I salute your courage in publishing these truths in the face of the world’s greatest disinformation and propaganda machine – the US government.

    The military is the huge death squad of the evil US Empire. These are the oligarch’s tools for murder and pillage around the world. The US Military is the most shameful group in the world today, composed of those willing to kill their brothers and sisters for money.

    • Replies: @Melotte 22
  159. Pheasant says:
    @Cyrano

    You know there is actually a pornographic movie by that title right?

    It was public television when I was a kid. I was wondering why they put a famous movie on at 3 in the morning.

    • Replies: @Cyrano
  160. anonymous[397] • Disclaimer says:

    Saker, the very nature of life itself is based on war and has always been based on war. Problem?

    We’re chemical machines, that have been built over 4 billion years, and we’ve been tested in what can be called quite accurately a ‘Gladiator War’; where the machines went into the battle and if you won, your DNA replicated, and that’s all it was was a war.

    • Replies: @Tom Welsh
    , @mike k
  161. BB753 says:
    @Z-man

    “The two planes were two large armored napalm tanks”

    Except that planes aren’t built like tanks or else they wouldn’t lift off the ground. And their engines don’t run on napalm.
    There’s no way for a large plane traveling at low speed to go right through a building. It would have crashed to pieces and plummeted to the ground where it would have exploded and burned down.

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    , @Z-man
  162. WJ says:
    @The Alarmist

    I joined to shoot all sorts of weaponry, to use explosive, to rappel out of helicopters, to call in close air support, etc. All great, fun stuff. Unfortunately , mixed in with that, was a lot of 3 am spit shining shoes and ironing ponchos for a junk on the bunk inspection at 0800.

  163. Tom Welsh says:
    @Realist

    In fact there has NEVER been any occasion since the War of 1812 when members of the US armed forces had to fight to protect their “homeland” – which is impressive when you remember that the USA has been at war for 222 out of 239 years since 1776.

    As for the War of 1812, while it is true that the British invaded the USA and burned some of Washington, the Americans were responsible for the outbreak of war. President James Madison declared war on Great Britain, when negotiations were still possible. At the time, Britain was at war with the empire of Napoleon so the US declaration of war must have seemed to the British a treacherous stab in the back.

    • Replies: @BB753
    , @Tulip
  164. Aardvark says:
    @James Speaks

    I suppose the proximity of the jets cause WTC7 to experience slenderness too. Or was it that the BBC announcing WTC’s demise 20 minutes before it actually happened was caused by “kl/r”?

  165. @Anon

    God bless “Murka”, home of the slave, land of the fee..

  166. About this article – 100% Yep, you betcha’, fo sho, and no shit.

  167. Tom Welsh says:
    @Rex Little

    Rex, may I point out that it was the US government (in the person of President Madison) who declared war on Great Britain – not vice versa?

    Until then there were serious disagreements, but they could have been negotiated. It was the US government that chose to have a war – as it has often done since.

    • Replies: @Rex Little
  168. BB753 says:

    Having said that, I agree with The Saker. No more illegal, expensive and pointless wars! Real patriots are those who don’t abuse their military might.

  169. BB753 says:
    @Tom Welsh

    Not to mention that the Colonies were still British by right.

  170. Tulip says:
    @Wally

    The Saker is a Russian. He can probably give you the body count of the Red Army on the Eastern Front.

    The Nazis were bastards, and they started an aggressive war (and by that, I mean “aggressive” from the standpoint of the victors, unlike say Iraq), they killed a lot of people, and they lost. You don’t even have to bring (((them))) into to equation to conclude that the Allies didn’t hang enough people when they had the chance, but I guess someone had to be left to rebuild.

  171. Tom Welsh says:
    @Hans Vogel

    ” A guy like Saddam, who appoints as his official food taster the son of the palace cook is truly a perverted individual”.

    Truly an intelligent individual, you mean. Intelligent.

    All that arrangement ensures is that the cook cannot poison the President without also poisoning his own son. As long as he doesn’t poison the President, his son will be fine.

    You think that’s perverted, but perhaps you believe that starting the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan which have killed at least 3 million people was OK?

    • Replies: @Hans Vogel
  172. @Z-man

    The twin towers were were 110 stories high and were very strongly built, both were designed to withstand two strikes by Boeing 707′s. The biggest hole in your “collapse” theory is the lack of a debris pile. With the collapse of a building that high the debris pile should have been somewhere around 14 stories high. The debris pile was virtually missing. Have a look at the linked photo and tell me where the debris piles are. This photo was taken before any debris could have been removed as Building 7 is still standing.

    • Replies: @Agent76
    , @Z-man
  173. Tulip says:
    @Tom Welsh

    You are either fighting over there or you are fighting in your homeland. When you stop fighting over there, you end up fighting in your homeland. Putin wants war and instability in Ukraine, because he knows Russia is next.

    America has just done the same thing every other successful Empire has done since the dawn of time, suggesting a natural line of development in human civilizations. All of America’s enemies simply want America out of the way so they can do the same thing America has done. If I were Russian or Chinese, I would want the same thing Saker calls for. But let’s face it, a second-rate gorilla wanting the Alpha gorilla to die is a different sentiment from the internationalist liberal humanitarian bullshit Saker cites in his article.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @L.K
  174. Please stop telling that 911 was a false flag.
    Not even Alexander Dumas could has created such mastermind and very consecuntial act.
    What is the point in give such an espectacular achivement to your enemy that already and before has decalre war to you and atack you.
    911 tell us everything and more about our goverment and our elite.
    Chamlers jhonson anticipate it in his book “blowback”.
    That day We cuban and russians get our own especial message:
    THAT ALL THAT COLD WAR AND FIDEL CASTRO “SWAGGER”WAS A LADYS THEATHER OF AN ALREADY FALSE WORLD.

  175. Tom Welsh says:
    @Fhilaerene

    “We need a law forbidding foreigners from speaking on our political affairs. It is not, and never will be, their call. The author is clearly a Russian nationalist, which is a great thing, but that belongs in Russia”.

    A peculiar argument. As the author presumably believes in the political equality of all human beings, he would no doubt agree that Russia needs a law forbidding foreigners from speaking about Russian political affairs. (Would that apply just to foreigners speaking while in Russia, or in their own countries?)

  176. Tom Welsh says:
    @peterAUS

    “…is there a need for a World Policeman? I think there is (human nature, nukes and such). The catch is, of course, who‘s going to be that one. Or better, who is going to control the cop. Even better, who and how, is going to control the controllers”.

    That sounds quite clever and sophisticated, but it leads nowhere because it’s fairly obvious that there is no answer to the questions “who’s going to be the World Policeman?” and “Who’s going to control the cop?”

    For practical purposes we can regard the idea of a “World Policemen” is obviously impractical. Even if such a regime could be brought about, it would likely lead to the very worst tyranny ever – and perhaps the first one impossible to escape or overthrow.

    Therefore we need to return to the real world and consider alternatives. At present I see nothing better than Messrs Putin and Xi’s concept of a multilateral world order, regulated by international laws, in which nations show respect and consideration for one another.

    If anyone thinks that’s not good enough, consider that the world is not some schoolroom where we are posed questions with predesigned, cut-and-dried answers. In real life, we sometimes encounter questions that have no simple answers.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  177. anonymous[340] • Disclaimer says:
    @James Speaks

    ” … and probably 7.”

    I’m no expert on your technical issues, either.

    But I have a keen nose for discomfort masked with dissembling.

    And the way that WTC 7 is so strenuously avoided and brushed aside by the Establishment, and even by many commenters here, stinks.

    • Agree: lavoisier
  178. Tulip says:
    @Wally

    One thing I don’t understand about the internet Nazi is the inability to comprehend that Hitler was a complete loser who destroyed his own country and fought a war that was hopelessly stacked against him probably because he was too high on amphetamines to think straight.

    Don’t get me wrong, Hitler was a brilliant politician, when it came to stirring up ignorant mobs of followers, but when it came to statesmanship or fighting wars, a complete idiot who makes the average neocon look like a genius in contrast. I can understand why Jews would hate Hitler, but I don’t see why any decent person would see anything worthy in a degenerate, drugged up demagogue. Never hire a corporal to do the job of a general.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @jilles dykstra
  179. @Intelligent Dasein

    @Intelligent Dasein: instead of boring us with your frustrations and spewing your vitriol that nobody is interested in (after all, your frustration is just yours), why don’t you try to have a grown-up argument that points out, with well-balanced arguments, what is wrong/stupid/twisted/etc, and why.

  180. Tom Welsh says:
    @anonymous

    Your comment displays a very common misunderstanding of evolutionary theory.

    The species that survive best and reproduce most in a given environment are sometimes called “the fittest”. At present – although perhaps not for much longer – Homo sapiens has been very successful in terms of fitness for perhaps 10,000 years. People tend to ascribe this mostly to our large brain and intelligence, but they err in thinking that the main evolutionary advantage of intelligence is the ability to invent weapons and other machines.

    In fact, humans have thriven mainly because of their social organization and ability to cooperate.

    Which is why any theory that proposes vicious competition between individual human beings or human groups is flying in the face of Darwin. We succeed or fail as teams. Cheating and murdering your team-mates is not a recipe for success.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Johnny Rico
  181. Tom Welsh says:
    @Fhilaerene

    “This is why the only foreigners besides tourists and students, who should be allowed here, are those who benefit Heritage Americans”.

    WTF is a “heritage American”? I presume you do not mean the Native Americans who inhabited the continent in their millions, exploiting almost all its ecological niches, before the arrival of the European invaders who butchered them and stole all their land?

  182. @L. Ross

    @L. Ross: so you believe that a bunch of angry fundamentalists managed to outsmart all 17 US intelligence agencies and those of NATO and Israel, the National Security Council, the Transportation Safety Administration, Air Traffic Control, and Dick Cheney, hijacked four US airliners on one morning, brought down three World Trade Center skyscrapers, destroyed that part of the Pentagon where research was underway into the missing $2.3 trillion, and caused the morons in Washington to blame Afghanistan instead of Saudi Arabia?

    If so, you urgently need to educate yourself. If not, tell us why it was not a controlled demolition.

    • Agree: Miro23
  183. Tom Welsh says:
    @Anon

    “But many whites join because they like the culture of Brotherhood”.

    That reminds me, rightly or wrongly, of something else. Oh yes, here it is:

    “Unless a man has talents to make something of himself, freedom is an irksome burden. Of what avail is freedom to choose if the self be ineffectual? We join a mass movement to escape individual responsibility, or, in the words of the ardent young Nazi, “to be free from freedom.” It was not sheer hypocrisy when the rank-and-file Nazis declared themselves not guilty of all the enormities they had committed. They considered themselves cheated and maligned when made to shoulder responsibility for obeying orders. Had they not joined the Nazi movement in order to be free from responsibility?”

    - Eric Hoffer

  184. Saker,
    Go fuck yourself. You are not an American so you are hardly in a position to say why Americans serve in OUR military. I might add that the so-called “illegal wars” and covert actions were primarily fought against the Communist madness YOUR people unleashed on the world or primitive Islamists who have always been our enemies.

  185. Tom Welsh says:
    @Wally

    ‘“But in a world of empires, the US empire preferable to the German, Japanese, Russian, and Spanish.”

    ‘Really?

    ‘Please explain’.

    You really don’t get it? Isn’t it obvious that being burned to death by good red-blooded democratic American napalm or white phosphorus is far better than being killed by a German, Japanese, Russian or Spanish weapon?

    It’s the kindly good intentions that make all the difference!

    https://a.disquscdn.com/get?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpbs.twimg.com%2Fmedia%2FDi-NDu2XoAUSh6i.jpg&key=9qFiHdP41K6ADQbPq1VDSw&w=800&h=440

  186. @Intelligent Dasein

    @Intelligent Dasein: so why on earth do you read Saker’s articles? Why on earth do you then proceed to pollute this thread with your insane vituperations and bore us all to death? If you want to impress us with the use of vulgarities, there is no need to dedicate an essay to it.

  187. @Tulip

    Yes, I agree with this. The Nazis sent thousands of young Christian German Men to Russia to slaughter young Christian Russian Men.

    In 2016, the ANTIFA voted for a hairy Bulldyke Lesbian who used Ukraino-Nazis to exterminate Orthodox Christian Russians in the Ukraine……while at the same time calling the Alt Right Nazis…even though the Alt Right opposed the Neo-Nazi coup in the Ukraine….

  188. mike k says:
    @anonymous

    Except it was not only a war. If you think that, then you are missing so much that is true and beautiful.
    Neither does the truth you shared about our history mean that there will always be war.

  189. DanFromCT says:
    @ThreeCranes

    The same cabal that had been denouncing young Americans conscripted to fight in Vietnam as “baby killers”—the same ones always disproportionately underrepresented in our armed forces—are from what I see on Fox News the ones behind the jingoism serving only Israel today. Cops were vilified as “pigs.” The American flag was walked on and burned with glee. Now we have “wounded warrior” ads running all the time, while MAGA is making Wall Street richer and creating new jobs for anyone but the young white men who mostly wear the uniforms and do the dying so fine young Israeli boys need not.

    All in all this “thank you for your service” is obviously well meaning from everyday people, but it is nothing short of grinning mockery coming from that same bunch—the “war party” of neo-lib/neo-con foreign agents—who only yesterday were denouncing our soldiers as “baby killers.” There is no left/right when it comes to bankrupting America for Israel.

    Now on Fox News we get Trotskyite neocons elevating those same “baby killers” and “pigs” in uniform to hero status, and in preparation for the coming martial law, authoring the thoughts of the gullible with the concepts and catchwords of the police state. “Baby killers” and “pigs” alchemically have become heroes-in-uniform first-responders putting their boots on the ground in harm’s way, whose muh brothers/muh mission training sanctions incinerating civilians IDF style, who won’t hesitate enforcing shelter-in-place orders back home at gun point even on their own kind.

    • Agree: mark green
    • Replies: @Ernesto Che
    , @ThreeCranes
  190. Tom Welsh says:
    @Z-man

    “The two planes were two large armored napalm tanks…”

    A Boeing 767-200 has a maximum take-off weight of about 180 tons, so it weighs about three times as much as a modern main battle tank. (The two engines each weigh a surprisingly modest 4 tons). No matter how hard you drove three MBTs into a skyscraper – even if loaded with kerosene – the damage would be limited.

    All modern airliners are, of course, built from the lightest possible materials that meet the needs for strength, flexibility and durability. Most of the skin is aluminium alloy, which is very light indeed and has negligible strength compared to the armour – or even the underlying hull – of a tank.

    How thick is an airliner’s aluminium skin? About 2-4 mm! Sorry if that stops you ever wanting to fly in one again. Check this out:

    In contrast, main battle tanks have armor up to 130 mm thick composed of heavy materials such as steel or titanium. To a degree, weight is a minor consideration.

    So, no. The airliners that hit the WTC buildings were in no way similar to armoured tanks loaded with napalm.

    • Replies: @Z-man
  191. DanFromCT says:
    @ThreeCranes

    The same cabal that had been denouncing young Americans conscripted to fight in Vietnam as “baby killers”—the same ones always disproportionately underrepresented in our armed forces—are from what I see on Fox News the ones behind the jingoism serving only Israel today. Cops were vilified as “pigs.” The American flag was walked on and burned with glee. Now we have “wounded warrior” ads running all the time, while MAGA is making Wall Street richer and creating new jobs for anyone but the young white men who mostly wear the uniforms and do the dying so fine young Israeli boys need not.

    All in all this “thank you for your service” is obviously well meaning from everyday people, but it is nothing short of grinning mockery coming from that same bunch—the “war party” of neo-lib/neo-con foreign agents—who only yesterday were denouncing our soldiers as “baby killers.” There is no left/right when it comes to bankrupting America for Israel.

    Now on Fox News we get Trotskyite neocons elevating those same “baby killers” and “pigs” in uniform to hero status, and in preparation for the coming martial law, authoring the thoughts of the gullible with the concepts and catchwords of the police state. “Baby killers” and “pigs” alchemically have become heroes-in-uniform first-responders putting their boots on the ground in harm’s way, whose muh brothers/muh mission training sanctions incinerating civilians IDF style, who won’t hesitate enforcing shelter-in-place orders back home at gun point even on their own kind.

  192. Tom Welsh says:
    @Den Lille Abe

    “The aide said that guys like me were ‘in what we call the reality-based community,’ which he defined as people who ‘believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.’ I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. ‘That’s not the way the world really works anymore,’ he continued. ‘We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality ­ judiciously, as you will ­ we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.’”

    - Ronald Suskind (American journalist) reporting the comments of a White House aide (later identified as Karl Rove) ["Without A Doubt" by Ron Suskind, The New York Times Magazine, 17 October 2004].

    • Replies: @Den Lille Abe
  193. “…Why?” Well for one thing they carry out policies concocted by delusional “intellectuals” and fellow travellers of whom you are most assuredly king, Saker.

  194. Tom Welsh says:
    @Charles Martel

    Charles Martel expresses views that I suppose are very common among Americans. My favourite SF writer Robert Heinlein would certainly have agreed with every word. Yet I believe that Charles shows signs of having been deceived – having “drunk the Kool-Aid”, as I think some people used to say.

    As soon as I saw the trope about Khrushschev “threatening to bury us” I knew there was some intentional or unintentional misunderstanding. Lo and behold!

    ‘While addressing Westerners at the embassy on November 18, 1956, in the presence of Polish Communist statesman Władysław Gomułka, Khrushchev said: “About the capitalist states, it doesn’t depend on you whether or not we exist. If you don’t like us, don’t accept our invitations, and don’t invite us to come to see you. Whether you like it or not, history is on our side. We will bury you!” The speech prompted the envoys from twelve NATO nations and Israel to leave the room’.

    What Khrushchev obviously meant was “We shall be the survivors after you have perished, and so we will stand at your graveside”. Unfortunately, he worded the thought more briefly and vividly. In the Western world, which is ruled by propaganda and psyops, such techniques are used to put the worst possible construction on the words of any antagonist.

    Very similar to the furore about Iranian president Ahmadinejad supposedly threatening to “wipe Israel off the map”. As the extensive and accurate articles cited below explain, what Ahmadinejad really said (in Farsi) was that “This regime that is occupying Qods [Jerusalem] must be eliminated from the pages of history”. Just as the USSR, for instance, has been eliminated from the pages of history (and atlases).

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/did-ahmadinejad-really-say-israel-should-be-wiped-off-the-map/2011/10/04/gIQABJIKML_blog.html?utm_term=.09fdc904327e

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2006/jun/14/post155

  195. ” Let me repeat that truism once again, in an even more direct way: veterans are killers hired for money. Period. The rest is all propaganda.”
    Yes, from the point of view of recruiters.
    Not, as far as I can see, from the point of view of the hired.
    Do not think that many join military forces with the intention to kill.
    Happen to know a now retired USA pilot, who joined the USA forces for two reasons, he hated the work on his father’s farm, and he wanted to fly.
    He did kill, I suppose, flying a helicopter in the Vietnam war is not for philantropic business.
    He also flew bombers, bomber pilots seldom see what the bombs they drop do.
    But I wonder if he ever saw that he killed someone, as far as I know him he did not like to kill at all.
    Back to the question, should we thank veterans ?
    I wonder for what.
    They took a job, a job they knew could well lead to killing, or be killed.
    A quite different situation exists for those who join an army out of idealistic motives, such as George Orwell in the thirties in Spain.
    But, thanking them depends on what side in the war you support.

  196. Tom Welsh says:
    @Simon in London

    “If Russia ran the world things would be different, but I doubt they would be better”.

    You are very probably right, which is why Russia has no desire to run the world. All it wants – at least according to Mr Putin – is to be treated with respect and given its rights under international law. Not to live in a world ruled by any single nation, but in a world where all nations treat one another with respect and consideration.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  197. Parbes says:
    @Simon in London

    “If Russia ran the world things would be different, but I doubt they would be better.”

    Self-serving, subjective Anglo-Zionist crap logic. For YOU, maybe, as a “patriotic” denizen of the globo-imperialist Anglosphere, it “wouldn’t be better”. For RUSSIANS, it would for sure “be better”. For most of the world outside the Anglosphere except the Zionists and the Wahhabis, too, it would “be better”. I daresay that even for most ***ordinary*** people in the Anglosphere, it would probably “be better” (depending of course on exactly how you define “better”) – or at least, not be WORSE.

    It’s also quite amusing how you automatically equate the ending of the current criminal U.S. regime’s planetwide aggressions and uncontested global hegemony aspirations, with “Russia running the world”, the same way that the U.S. regime wants to do right now. As if that is the ONLY possible outcome – and as if it is preordained and inevitable that one single hegemonic nation should lord it over and call the shots in the entire world by force. The result, no doubt, of your brainwashing since birth with capitalist imperialist ideology, wedded to “British Empire” chauvinism that now finds a vicarious outlet in sucking up to U.S. global hegemonism as part of the Anglosphere.

  198. Read The Protocols of Zion and see who is behind the wars that America has been forced into ie it is the Zionist banking kabal and this was true from WWI right on down to the wars in the Mideast and all for the Zionist banking kabal and their Zionist satanic NWO!

  199. @Rex Little

    There have been several armed invasions of the US with two more on the way. They were entirely undeterred by the useless parasitic employees of the “Department of Defense”.

  200. @BB753

    One more time.

    The Official Version of 9/11 goes something like this…

    Directed by a beardy-guy from a cave in Afghanistan, ( This well appointed Suite

    http://www.edwardjayepstein.com/nether_fictoid3.htm

    according to the London Times): nineteen hard-drinking, coke-snorting, devout Muslims enjoy lap dances before their mission to meet Allah…

    Using nothing more than craft knifes, they overpower cabin crew, passengers and pilots on four planes…

    And hangover or not, they manage to give the world’s most sophisticated air defense system the slip…

    Unfazed by leaving their “How to Fly a Passenger Jet” guide in the car at the airport, they master the controls in no-time and score direct hits on two towers, causing THREE to collapse completely…

    Our masterminds even manage to overpower the odd law of physics or two… and the world watches in awe as steel-framed buildings fall symmetrically – through their own mass – at free-fall speed, for the first time in history.

    Despite all their dastardly cunning, they stupidly give their identity away by using explosion-proof passports, which survive the fireball undamaged and fall to the ground… only to be discovered by the incredible crime-fighting sleuths at the FBI…

    …Meanwhile down in Washington…

    Hani Hanjour, having previously flunked 2-man Cessna flying school, gets carried away with all the success of the day and suddenly finds incredible abilities behind the controls of a Boeing…

    Instead of flying straight down into the large roof area of the Pentagon, he decides to show off a little…

    Executing an incredible 270 degree downward spiral, he levels off to hit the low facade of the world’s most heavily defended building…

    …all without a single shot being fired…. or ruining the nicely mowed lawn… and all at a speed just too fast to capture on video…

    …Later, in the skies above Pennsylvania…

    So desperate to talk to loved ones before their death, some passengers use sheer willpower to connect mobile calls that otherwise would not be possible until several years later…

    And following a heroic attempt by some to retake control of Flight 93, it crashes into a Shankesville field leaving no trace of engines, fuselage or occupants… except for the standard issue Muslim terrorists bandana…

    …Further south in Florida…

    President Bush, our brave Commander-in-Chief continues to read “My Pet Goat” to a class full of primary school children… shrugging off the obvious possibility that his life could be in imminent danger…

    …In New York…

    World Trade Center leaseholder Larry Silverstein blesses his own foresight in insuring the buildings against terrorist attack only six weeks previously…

    While back in Washington, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz shake their heads in disbelief at their own luck in getting the ‘New Pearl Harbor’ catalyzing event they so desired to pursue their agenda of world domination…

    And finally, not to be disturbed too much by reports of their own deaths, at least seven of our nineteen suicide hijackers turn up alive and kicking in mainstream media reports…

    And If you don’t believe this, you are a conspiracy theorist.

    • Agree: BB753
  201. In response —–

    I want to thank the men of the armed services for for their service. Whether that service was for money, job, because you wanted to vent a warped sense of what it means (merely killing others fellows is hardly a noble task) or

    whether you sincerely desire to serve the country as a duty.

    For any of those reasons above

    Thanks . . . (my only regret is not keeping you from unnecessary conflicts) But I honor your service.

    Just in case I neglected to say it –

    Thanks.

  202. Agent76 says:

    This is how the Pentagon thanks everyone for their service!

    Jun 30, 2014 America’s Veteran Crisis: Abandoned At Home

    As politicians in Washington wring their hands over the Veterans Affairs scandal, VICE News travels to Portland, Oregon, to see what it’s all really about.

    December 9, 2016 Report: VA staff left veteran’s body in shower nine hours, tried to hide mistakes

    SEMINOLE — Staff members at the Bay Pines VA Healthcare System left the body of a veteran in a shower room for more than nine hours then tried to cover up the mistake, a hospital investigation shows.

    http://www.tampabay.com/news/military/veterans/report-va-staff-left-veterans-body-in-shower-for-nine-hours-tried-to-hide/2305694

  203. @WJ

    0800

    What a bunch of lazy slobs –

    0800 . . . sounds like the hippie brigade

    Laughde.

  204. Agent76 says:
    @Johnny Walker Read

    Sep 11, 2013 9/11 In A Nutshell

    James Corbett presents this 5 minute parody of the official conspiracy theory of 9/11

    September 11, 2013 Twelve Years of War, Lies and Deception

    Twelve years after the 9/11 attacks, no credible independent investigation has been done to find out what really happened on that day and who was responsible.

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/911-twelve-years-of-war-lies-and-deception/5349347

    • Replies: @Tom Welsh
  205. nsa says:
    @Charles Martel

    You have it backwards. The enlisted and conscripted were dummy candy asses, lacking the balls and brains to avoid abetting the venal national security state and its vile owners. Now in this sad year of 2018, the US military is little more than the Goy Auxiliary of the jooie IDF……making enlistment doubly stupid and cowardly, especially if you are a white person. Notice your hero Trumpstein didn’t enlist and neither did any of the “neocons” or anyone else with any brains or balls……

  206. @JVC

    Good grief gentlemen,

    have some self respect.

    if you are talking about Vietnam — no you weren’t. i encourage you refresh your orienteering skills (map reading) and look at one for the time in question. There was North Vietnam and South Vietnam. if you were in South Vietnam — you were there by invitation — that is not a violation of another’s sovereignty. If entered North Vietnam it was in response to defending south Vietnam against aggression by North Vietnam.

    if North Vietnam wanted peace — all they had to do was stop invading South Vietnam.

    • Replies: @Ernesto Che
  207. The scalpel says: • Website
    @David In TN

    No, but irrelevant. What’s your point?

    All humans who sacrifice their own free will and freedom of conscience, no matter what “side” they are on to follow orders like a killing machine, are almost by definition, subhuman. They are dangerous amoral killers. They are the “kinetic action” that takes aggressive war from a concept to a reality. Humanity would be better off if they could never reproduce and if they were strictly limited to fighting each other to the death

    • Replies: @David In TN
  208. pioneer says:

    @72 Paul2

    I am amazed that there seem still to be people who believe the official 9/11 propaganda bull*.

    They don’t believe the Gospel According To NIST. And I find it hard to believe you believe they believe it**.

    ‘They’ are shills & operators. The 911 myth must be defended at all costs – the empire insists. For the one’s who might genuinely believe, no need to waste time answering them as they’re too stupid to matter.

    **Calling Donald Rumsfeld.

  209. anarchyst says:
    @Simply Simon

    “Every large controlled demolition I witnessed shows massive explosions at ground level.” Not true…
    Internal pillars can be taken out without showing any evidence of demolition from the outside of a building.
    Every large controlled demolition that I have witnessed did not show “massive explosions” at ground level, but rather momentary flashes of light, with the building then collapsing into its own footprint.

  210. JLK says:
    @Fhilaerene

    We need a law forbidding foreigners from speaking on our political affairs. It is not, and never will be, their call. The author is clearly a Russian nationalist, which is a great thing, but that belongs in Russia.

    I’ll keep reading the foreign press, including from Russia, until there is a good reason not to, like a shooting war.

    Even propaganda sometimes includes constructive criticism. The Soviets were right when they criticized lynchings in the South, and the international shame helped bring an end to them.

    If you believe some of the American Pravda articles here, you should welcome any help that we can get from abroad to clean up our government.

  211. @Tom Welsh

    You probably overlooked the rest of my comment: “like most politicians in high office everywhere and at all times, he was also a psychopath and did not shirk from killing fellow human beings.” That includes the war criminals Bush I, Bush II, and the White House Negro.

    • Replies: @Tom Welsh
  212. A well-argued essay that addresses a relevant and important issue. Mercenaries, like regular working folk, are just doing their job that they got paid for as per the contract. They fulfilled the contract, no need to thank them. I never got a special thanks for doing my job, certainly not from the highest authorities and every Tom, Dick and Harry in between.

  213. @EliteCommInc.

    @EliteComminc: the US was “invited” into South Vietnam by the puppet regime it installed there in the 1st place. Therefore its attack on North Vietnam was still illegal and amounted to a war crime. Period.

  214. @DanFromCT

    @DanfromCT: weren’t your soldiers baby killers? Aren’t your cops pigs?
    AS far as I can tell, the news keeps confirming that day in day out. Facts are always hard to face for certain people.

  215. Tom Welsh says:
    @Agent76

    Thanks Agent 76. That video is actually amazingly funny – and, partly because it’s so funny, it packs a devastating punch. Seeing all the loose ends and nonsensical inconsistencies bundled together and delivered in fast-forward mode is hugely convincing.

  216. Wally says:
    @Tulip

    So then, you do not have proof that the Germans killed those which they are said to have killed.
    But hey, you do have the almighty name calling. I suggest giving Zionist TeeVee a rest.

    As for German aggression, you’re wrong on that too.
    Sorry to keep posting the same rebuttals below, Ron. But as you see, we get the same ignorant claims.
    facts:
    - USSR invaded Finland, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Poland, invaded & annexed parts of Romania, invaded Iran, invaded northern Norway and the Danish island of Bornholm, yet the ‘Allies’ did nothing.
    - Poland invaded and annexed parts of Czechoslovakia, held large parts of German territory, was engaged in atrocities against German civilians. Yet the ‘Allies’ did nothing.
    - The “neutral” US had been attacking German U-boats & shipping, while supplying both Britain & the USSR long before Germany’s declaration of war on the US.
    - Brits invaded & were mining Norway at Narvik before Germany arrived & stopped it.
    - France had positioned 2 million soldiers on the Belgian border, and the BEF had almost another half million.
    - France and England were already violating Belgian and Dutch “neutrality” with impunity by flying aircraft over the lowlands.
    - It is important to remember that France had already invaded Germany, the Saar in 1939, and that throughout this entire period Hitler was begging Churchill to negotiate a return to the status quo.
    Did Britain initiate both world wars?: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=10458
    Responsibility for WW2: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7544
    Introduction to HITLER’S WAR: http://www.unz.com/article/introduction-to-hitlers-war/
    Who started bombing civilians first: Germany or Great Britain, Britain: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=8172
    Operation Barbarossa Was A Preventive Attack: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7999
    http://www.codoh.com

  217. The Empire will NOT survive for one day without a war! The MIC runs this Empire and it won’t allow the Empire to go on as usual without purchasing or the empire’s puppet government exporting their products to the other countries. The aggressions are meant to kill innocent people and to destroy the weapons that were sold to the countries to begin with! So the other countries have to purchase more to defend themselves (catch 22). In other words all acts of aggression are about nothing but money in this capitalist system!

  218. One of the very best articles I have ever read. and which in my opinion should be required reading for every high school graduate in the United States, and other countries.

  219. Tom Welsh says:
    @Hans Vogel

    I do agree with your generalisation about politicians in high office. It was just that I reacted quite strongly to your implication that the mere appointment of that man proved Saddam to be “perverted”.

    There’s an interesting discussion to be had about how fair it is to call people “perverted” who merely behave like the proportion of humans who love violence and often resort to it.

    I certainly wouldn’t have liked to be in Saddam Hussein’s power if he had any reason to harm me. On the other hand, I often wonder how easy it can be to rule a country like Iraq or Syria, and wonder if perhaps a hard dictator might be the best fit under present circumstances.

    Generally speaking, political reform follows cultural and economic change – not vice versa. I’d love to see any of the leading American or British politicians, or other blowhards, try to do Saddam’s or Assad’s job without getting killed within a week or two. After a year we could ask them searching questions about the morality of what they have done, and I bet they would come up with something along the lines of “It was either me or them”.

    “The most extravagant idea that can be born in the head of a political thinker is to believe that it suffices for people to enter, weapons in hand, among a foreign people and expect to have one’s laws and constitution embraced. It is in the nature of things that the progress of Reason is slow and no one loves armed missionaries; the first lesson of nature and prudence is to repulse them as enemies.
    One can encourage freedom, never create it by an invading force”.
    - Maximilien Robespierre (1791)

    “Laws should be so appropriate to the people for whom they are made that it is very unlikely that the laws of one nation can suit another”.
    - Charles-Louis de Secondat, Baron de La Brède et de Montesquieu, “L’Esprit des Lois”

    • Replies: @Hans Vogel
  220. I guess it stands to reason that people who are stupid enough to join the military, are the same ones stupid enough to keep waving the American flag after getting their asses shot off. But other than for that reason, I’ve never understood why anyone would do such as thing.

  221. Wally says:
    @Tulip

    Yawn.
    You really mean an “Internet Nazi” that slaps you silly on your easily debunked propaganda. You’re just another run-of-the-mill Zionist who the world is now onto. Hurts, don’t it?

    Briefly, Germany was destroyed by:
    - Zionists who did not want their privileged & destructive ways to end, alas, just look at the world now
    - Communists who did not like anyone standing up to Communism’s plans of world control
    - forces that were threatened by the alternative economy Germany had built
    - forces that wanted to plunder Germany’s patents and technology
    See other post.
    I challenge you to debate.
    The ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    See the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

  222. Z-man says:
    @BB753

    You’re thinking of the B 24 that hit the Empire State Building in the 1940′s. Small plane and different construction. The skin of the WTC was made of lighter weight materials that could be penetrated by a substantial force. The highjacked plane was full of fuel and going at a good speed, it was a substantial projectile.

    • Replies: @Herald
    , @BB753
  223. Wally says:
    @BillDakota

    Please explain specifically.

  224. Wally says:
    @Curmudgeon

    Indeed, conspiracies are proven in endless courts of law all over the world everyday.
    Jails are filled with conspirators.

  225. Wally says:
    @Mike-SMO

    The truth hurts, don’t it?

    If he’s truly on-the-dole, then indeed he can take a hike. I suspect he is not.

    • Replies: @Mike-SMO
  226. peterAUS says:
    @BillDakota

    The Saker seems like a foreign psychological warfare agent.

    Now…..you could be onto something here.
    I wouldn’t put it in exactly those words, feels so “Cold war” and things have changed since, but, yes, the overall intention IS something along that path.

    • Replies: @cassandra
  227. Wally says:
    @Craig Morris

    Indeed, they have soldiers carrying children from harm, black computer programmers, women warrior commandos, and Mexican strategy planners; right out of a Spielberg movie.

  228. Z-man says:
    @Johnny Walker Read

    Yes the buildings were designed to withstand the impact of the airliner, but not the fire.
    There was a debris pile. The WTC’s foundation was 7 stories deep under ground and they got a lot of that steel from above. Again the structure was made with light weight space frames, open trusses, not big steel beams.
    I’m not knocking theories on who was responsible for this tragedy I’m just explaining the FACTS of the collapse.

  229. Wally says:
    @Michael Kenny

    Indeed, he should defend the Crimeans right to choose their own government.

  230. peterAUS says:
    @Charles Martel

    Concise, civil, and informative.

    Agree with the main points, of course. Especially with

    ..if we didn’t have a strong deterrent force (and the demonstrated will to use it) there are plenty of Mohammedans, Chinese and others who would dearly love to subdue us.

    and

    ….And to me, service in the military is a civic duty as well for able-bodied males.

  231. EugeneGur says:
    @Edwin Vieira

    Does “The Saker” really imagine that he is the first person who has thought to quote the principles of the Nuremberg Trials …? Does he expect applause for stating the obvious?

    What the Saker is indeed quite obvious, but it is is not openly stated all that often. Even people who generally object to the US-led wars feel it necessary to exempt the veterans from the blame as an innocent or even wronged party. I’ve personally witnessed the madness at the begging of the Iraq war when people practically genuflected before the members of the military, and the banners and pins “We support our troops” were everywhere. Support in what, in the commission of a crime? But no one came out and said that.

    failures or refusals on the part of the American people to enforce what provisions of their own Constitution have led to this pass?

    I am sure he did but the article isn’t about that. You care to provide the answer?

    The most obvious one is that the American people are under intense propaganda coupled with the essential informational blockade. All alternative information is carefully excluded from the public view. Again, the Iraq war is a good examples: before the invasion, all attempts to say what things might not go as smoothly as projected were promptly cut off. Add to this a remarkably low level of education of most Americans, who aren’t familiar with geography or history, and you get the state of affairs you have.

    • Agree: JLK
    • Replies: @The scalpel
  232. peterAUS says:
    @Tulip

    You are either fighting over there or you are fighting in your homeland. When you stop fighting over there, you end up fighting in your homeland.

    America has just done the same thing every other successful Empire has done since the dawn of time, suggesting a natural line of development in human civilizations.

    Pretty much.

    All of America’s enemies simply want America out of the way so they can do the same thing America has done.

    Exactly.

    If I were Russian or Chinese, I would want the same thing Saker calls for.

    And that explains his articles in general.

    But let’s face it, a second-rate gorilla wanting the Alpha gorilla to die is a different sentiment from the internationalist liberal humanitarian bullshit Saker cites in his article.

    Yup.

    Good post.

  233. Z-man says:
    @Tom Welsh

    The mass and speed of the plane made it an armored vehicle for the fuel to do it’s damage. And like I said, the flaw in the WTC design to an attack like this was the light weight space frame that it was built upon. The thin and open steel trusses failed under heat and the building collapsed in a pancake fashion, as envisioned by some of the designers if ever such a catastrophe should happen, which it unfortunately did.

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
  234. Herald says:
    @War for Blair Mountain

    No honest intelligent being, who does a couple of hours serious research, could take the official 9/11 conspiracy seriously. Not a lot more needs to be said.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  235. @Ernesto Che

    that just tells me how much you don’t know about South Vietnam. The problem was not that the South Vietnamese were puppets. But just the opposite. Trying to get the South Vietnamese to follow US prescriptions was like trying to catch a porcupine.

    Single most obvious rebuttal to your nonsense — the rem oval of the first president by his own leadership – sure we signed on — no sign on to get rid of an obedient compliant partner. No one removes their puppets.

    I suggest you peruse the lengthy discussions on this subject in the archives on the site or you could stop mouthing talking points and actually examine the issues on your own.

    But to the point — Well, dropping the civil war nonsense is progress.

    • Replies: @Ernesto Che
  236. peterAUS says:
    @Tom Welsh

    Civil reply in obvious deep disagreement in this pub. Nice.

    So, my reply is simple: disagree.

    Not because of multipolar world, no. That could be a good idea if the other two contenders were setups I’d like to live in. I wouldn’t. So, as I stated before and always will, if I have to choose multipolar between those three and unipolar managed by US Administration, I choose the later. Free will, personal choice and such. Vodka, Jack Daniels, whatever.

    And, in my particular case it would mean living under, ahm, that “…Xi’s concept…”. Haha….yeah.

    You are correct in one thing, though. There are some questions with no answers,or better, answers we like. In this particular case there is such answer. Two options:
    Global US (or, as Saker puts it “Anglo-Zionist”) domination.
    Multipolar world with regional wars on its borders, if we are lucky. If unlucky MAD.

    The first one could be improve upon. The second can too, without the later.
    Big topic; too big for this pub.

    Now, should Russia and/or China introduce some other economic and societal models things could change for better, maybe. That option, hope, remains. Especially in Russia. Of course, not while the current regime is in power.
    But, then, something can change for better in USA too.

    We’ll see.

    In meantime, having USA being a dominant world power is, for some of us, preferable solution to that multipolar” thing.
    Or to put it bluntly:we…….do……..NOT………TRUST…….Kremlin and Beijing.
    Simple as that.

  237. @Ernesto Che

    Uhhh, you have no idea what you are talking about. The government of S. Vietnam was established by the South Vietnamese, beginning with the royal line of succession. The US had nothing to do with it.

    The US did not attack North Vietnam save in response to their incursions into S. Vietnam.

    I t’s not a the US acted like a band of Mexicans violating the US border. Though I would grant that the democrats and many republicans, libertarians and what nots — in CA are in fact, puppets of Mexican immigrants.

    You might to look up the definition of “puppet”, sovereignty, nationality and the international parameters that help guide recognizing the same —

    again a map would be helpful.

    • Replies: @Ernesto Che
  238. peterAUS says:
    @Tom Welsh

    Russia has no desire to run the world. All it wants – at least according to Mr Putin – is to be treated with respect and given its rights under international law. Not to live in a world ruled by any single nation, but in a world where all nations treat one another with respect and consideration.

    Ups….had I seen this, especially “….all nations treat one another with respect and consideration….” I wouldn’t have bothered with my comment No. 239. Please disregard it.
    Moving on.

  239. Herald says:
    @Z-man

    No intelligent being who does a couple of hours serious research, would take the official 9/11 conspiracy theory seriously. Not a lot more needs to be said.

    • Replies: @Z-man
  240. @Tom Welsh

    Interesting point you are raising: “Generally speaking, political reform follows cultural and economic change – not vice versa.” I am afraid in most cases, there is just a woeful lack of documentary evidence. Regarding a recent case for which we have a wealth of data, the EU, we see the opposite. Cultural and economic change (immigration, stifling regulations, advance of big monopolies such as Microsoft, Bayer, social misery such as in Greece etc) has followed in the wake of political reform, initiated by the Maastricht Treaty and the Lisbon Treaty.

    It would seem in the Soviet Union cultural and economic also followed political reform. One could sustain the same regarding Peronist Argentina until the early 1950s, the German Empire in 1871 which created the framework for profound and vast cultural and economic change, Italy since 1861, and so on.

    Thus, I am not so sure about the validity of the historical “law” you have tentatively formulated.

  241. @Tom Welsh

    [This is not a "meme" website. If you want to clutter up comment-threads with stupid images, go back to 4chan, or expect to see all your comments trashed.]

    WTF is a “heritage American”? I presume you do not mean the Native Americans who inhabited the continent in their millions, exploiting almost all its ecological niches, before the arrival of the European invaders who butchered them and stole all their land?

    Right of Conquest’s a bitch, innit? ;)

  242. @peterAUS

    In meantime, having USA being a dominant world power is, for some of us, preferable solution to that multipolar” thing.
    Or to put it bluntly:we…….do……..NOT………TRUST…….Kremlin and Beijing.
    Simple as that.

    I don’t trust Beijing. I trust D.C. about as much as I trust the Kremlin, or maybe a little less, given the way the United States has comported itself internationally since the end of the Cold War.

  243. @James Speaks

    I had considered that my comment about you having low low brain wattage was a bit too harsh even though you are certainly a fool but it seems I was correct on both counts after all. A fool is one who is repeatedly fooled and your comment proves that this is the case in the matter of yourself and 9/11.

    The little bit of knowledge that you’ve acquired is quite useless without a measure of commonsense which you clearly lack. Again, this thread is about the poor fools who were duped into participating in US wars of aggression not 9/11 so do yourself a favour and read the articles on 9/11 that can be found right here at The Unz Review including the one Ron Unz wrote himself. Good luck.

    • Replies: @James Speaks
  244. @Tulip

    Hitler Germany conquered Poland in a few weeks, snatched Norway from under Churchill’s nose, and beat France in three weeks.
    About Churchill’s stupidity in military matters: Gallipoli, and see what the commander of the British army thought about him:
    Colonel Roderick Macleod, D.S.O., M.C., and Dennis Kelly, ‘TIME UNGUARDED The Ironside Diaries 1937- 1940′, New York, 1963
    Hitler never wanted war:
    A J P Taylor, ‘The Origins of the Second World War’, 1961, 1967, Londen
    German economy:
    from 1933 until 1936 unemployment was reduced from six to one million.
    FDR’s New Deal did hardly reduce USA unemployment.
    Hitler’s big mistake was to underestimate the power of international jewry:
    Jean-Noël Jeanneney, ‘Francois de Wendel en République, L’Argent et le Pouvoir 1914-1940, Paris 1976
    Ludendorff already understood quite well that the allies wanted to destroy Germany
    Erich Ludendorff, ‘Meine Kriegserinnerungen 1914 = 1918′, Berlin, 1918
    And see
    Patrick J. Buchanan, ‘Churchill, Hitler and “The unnecessary war”, How Britain lost its empire and the west lost the world’, New York, 2008

    • Replies: @Tulip
  245. cassandra says:
    @Mario964

    Excellent point. It would be interesting to read a similar discussion of Saker’s points, but starting from the psychology behind the Milgram experiment and mass propaganda.

    Every state must have its peoples, in one way or another, support its geopolitical operations. In democracies, this comes down to applying psychological pressures so that the citizenry votes for the desired programs. (Note that whether soldiers enlist primarily out of idealism or as mercenaries is incidental.) Sufficient political and psychological support can usually be generated (The surprising failure to inflame the Goutha gas attack into a major war on Syria is one notable exception). Support can be achieved even in the face of strong initial opposition, such as WWI and the Iraq war. As Saker mentions, the support can be eroded when a war drags on too long without victory, such as Vietnam or Afghanistan.

    It follows that an article such as Saker’s will necessarily generate a strong opposition reaction. After all, “support the troops” is itself one of these conditioning slogans that drew the populace in in the first place. Simply recognizing propaganda creates cognitive dissonance against what has been programmatically imbued, and people have to get past this point to even consider that they might be acting from Milgram-like motives. Motivating people to enter this state of psychological confusion so they can deprogram themselves is the political trick.

    This is probably easier for intellectuals, which include many on this site. Not because they’re smarter, but because temperamentally, they actually derive pleasure from the headaches that accompany delving too deeply into confusing matters ;-).

  246. Clyde says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    Great and detailed commentary and authorship. Does not mean I agree 100%…….maybe 90%. Just know that so called Saker is office administrator at his wife’s veternarian in North Florida ….last time I looked and easily run through google Bing etc

    • Replies: @L.K
  247. You’re absolutely right, The Saker. You should go The Back…. both to measuring your The Penis against Russian ballistic missiles in your articles, and also to The Russia. The US is clearly not worthy of your The Presence.

  248. @Herald

    It’s odd that this War for Blair Mountain character rails endlessly against those who are destroying “his” nation but then goes on to provide direct assistance to them by validating the lies surrounding their most successful act of war against the American people. Could it be the thin mountain air, I wonder?

    • Replies: @L.K
  249. cassandra says:
    @peterAUS

    Fair point.

    1. Whether out of idealism or venality, there are a variety of sites, such as Saker’s, Russia Insider, and notorious RT, which present viewpoints in general support of Russia.

    2. The majority of the rest of the web (and news) presents viewpoints generally denigrating Russia in nearly every way, from its economy, to government, to domestic and foreign policy, to its military, and to its leadership (Putin!).

    Regardless of motivation, each of these groups is busy telling us what’s right with their viewpoint, and how despicable is the other. The process reveals important information and angles that the other side wouldn’t publicize. Really, all you have to do is read critically to identify and see past the authors prejudices. This is the point of free speech, after all.

    Pretty much all political arguments are meant to persuade readers, and I don’t hold anyone to blame for trying to be convincing. I do for outright lying, however, and I see a lot more of that coming from #2 than #1. To the extent that #1 is “influencing elections”, their main effect IMHO is to bust propaganda bubbles of the MSM. And this effect is minor given the vast resources allocated by #2 to their efforts.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  250. @Z-man

    Your Quote
    Two WTC went down first even though it was hit second because the plane hit lower and at an angle with more damage to more floors and more mass above to accelerate the collapse.
    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
    Congratulation.
    You hit the bulls eye of the shit.
    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
    Watch the collapse again.
    In both cases collapse started with the uppermost floor falling on the floor below.
    And so because second tower was hit close to hour later and the position of the impact was several stories lower, the heat influence on the uppermost connection of trusses was considerably lower than in first hit tower.
    Simple thermodynamics will confirm it to you.
    ……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
    When you will watch the collapse of first building (second hit)
    You will notice the part of the building was tilting, before cascading begin.
    That contradicts laws of physics.
    ……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..It was controlled demolition with exploding charges at trusses connections.
    There should not be any doubt about it.

    • Replies: @Z-man
  251. Z-man says:
    @Herald

    ‘Genius’, I’m explaining the collapse of the towers itself not the reasons/culprits of the attack!

  252. lysias says:
    @Tulip

    If Eichmann got what he deserved, what do we deserve?

    • Replies: @Tulip
    , @Wally
  253. Liza says:

    Aren’t sanctions (i.e., economic pressure) acts of aggression, too? Just as much as dropping of bombs, boots on ground, etc.?

    Anyway, I really like this article and was hoping it would come along sooner or later in the wake of the 100th anniversary of the end of the “great” war. I am the only person I know who doesn’t suck up to the paid killers.

    • Agree: DESERT FOX
  254. Mulegino1 says:

    You cannot really compare a Boeing 767 commercial airliner with a B-25 Mitchell bomber.

    The former is designed to cruise in the rarefied air above 30,000 feet precisely because its main components are extremely fragile and ductile and can be critically damaged even by impact with a bird in flight.

    On the other hand, the latter was designed to withstand heavy anti-aircraft fire and was so sturdy it was used for treetop level bombing missions.

    The commercial Boeing 767 is essentially a flying aluminum can, and there is no way its fragile nose cone, fuselage and extremely light and ductile wings would have been able to penetrate the massive structural steel perimeter columns and the even thicker steel spandrels of WTC 2. Any ballistics demonstration of frangible versus armor piercing bullets against steel plating is enough to demonstrate this. And the 767 would not be even close to frangible bullet status, much less to an armor piercing projectile.

    • Replies: @DESERT FOX
    , @Z-man
  255. peterAUS says:
    @cassandra

    Regardless of motivation, each of these groups is busy telling us what’s right with their viewpoint, and how despicable is the other. The process reveals important information and angles that the other side wouldn’t publicize. Really, all you have to do is read critically to identify and see past the authors prejudices. This is the point of free speech, after all.

    Agree, of course.

  256. Anon[276] • Disclaimer says:

    I didn’t see a name of the author on this piece. I will wager a jew wrote it. They have never served in the military. They also don’t remember 9/11 very well. Author is talking out his ass, about something they have no clue of what they are talking about.

    This piece makes me wish there was a draft actively sending these snowflakes off to war or prison, which ever they prefer.

    • Replies: @lysias
  257. Cyrano says:
    @Pheasant

    I swear I didn’t know that. I thought it was my original idea.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  258. L.K says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    NoseytheDuke says:
    November 15, 2018 at 9:04 pm GMT
    @Frederick V. Reed
    Regarding Nine-Eleven: Until someone who actually knows anything at all about the Laws of physics shows specifically just how low intensity fires could cause the explosions that produced the collapses all the way to the ground, it will remain just another infantile coincidence theory.

    LOL. Perfect reply to Reed’s BS.

    F. Reed is really TOTALLY DISHONEST when it comes to 9/11.

  259. 2Fresh says: • Website

    Many thanks SAKER. A pity you have to cope with so many whose …
    AGE > than 2(their IQ squared)

  260. L.K says:
    @Clyde

    Just know that Clyde is a well known Zionist HasbaRat polluting the comment sections at the Unz webzine

  261. Z-man says:
    @Ilyana_Rozumova

    No, you’re wrong. The collapse started where it was hit.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  262. @Mulegino1

    Totally agree, there were no planes used in the Israeli attack on the WTC on 911, holograms of planes were used and the towers and the other 5 WTC buildings were destroyed by direct energy weapons, see drjudywood.com and her videos on youtube and her book Where Did The Towers GO.

  263. Tulip says:
    @lysias

    If the Americans don’t get their act together, and drop the Boomer bullshit before its too late, then ultimately the Americans will get what they deserve too.

  264. L.K says:
    @Tulip

    You are either fighting over there or you are fighting in your homeland. When you stop fighting over there, you end up fighting in your homeland.

    Bullshit.

    • Agree: bluedog
  265. cassandra says:
    @peterAUS

    Or to put it bluntly:we…….do……..NOT………TRUST…….Kremlin and Beijing.

    Of course; we shouldn’t. But then, we shouldn’t trust Britain or Israel either. It’s really stupid to assume that a conflict of interest won’t arise.

    The point of diplomacy is to attempt to come to workable accomodations that have some chance of implementing peaceful coexistence at a minimum, and preferably to discover common interests that can be developed to mutual advantage. We’ll have to accept or compromise on unresolvable differences, and work so these don’t become too abrasive.

    This would be a nice change from the foreign policy of destruction in which the west has been engaged. Country after country wishing to stay outside that orbit have been turned into hell-holes, while the austerity economic policies of the west have destroyed their own nations even from within.

    I’ve been trying to understand why it’s nice to read about development in China and Russia. I’ve come to realize that it’s uplifting to read about anyone engaging in constructive activity, and it saddens me to see so little of that in the west along similar lines. Not that Russia and China are neglecting their military, but nearly all large scale western projects seem to be militaristic and destructive, to the exclusion of anything else. Has the west lost its ability to do something inspiring?

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  266. Z-man says:
    @Mulegino1

    The façade was made of aluminum. The planes, at speed, penetrated.
    ‘Nuff said.
    Excelsior
    Stan Lee
    lol

    • Replies: @Mulegino1
  267. L.K says:
    @Den Lille Abe

    The US is a country, that has been at war for most of its life. I believe only a mere 25 years of not waging or participating in a war. Hence its reverence for the military.

    Yep, the ZUS is as addicted to war as a junkie to drugs… over 90% of its history at war, truly a rogue, insane country.

    And in wars a lot of money can be made, lets not forget that

    That’s why one of the key elements of the ZUS deep state is the corrupt military industrial complex.

  268. The scalpel says: • Website
    @EugeneGur

    We support our troops” were everywhere. Support in what, in the commission of a crime? But no one came out and said that.

    I did. http://thescalpel.net/Defending.html

  269. @Cyrano

    It’s generally accepted among comedians and comedy writers that the first half dozen or so jokes on any given subject that anyone comes up with are likely to have been thought of by others too.

  270. On a comment thread about veterans, many of whom are genuinely suffering, I wonder if this is of interest to anyone?

    https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/nov/18/it-can-rewire-peoples-brains-how-traumatised-veterans-turned-to-underground-mdma-therapy

  271. peterAUS says:
    @cassandra

    I guess we are getting off the topic here.

    We’ll have to accept or compromise on unresolvable differences, and work so these don’t become too abrasive.

    Not always. Sometimes the other side has to be made submit or/and get destroyed.

    This would be a nice change from the foreign policy of destruction in which the west has been engaged.

    Not only West. That’s how empires have been working since Babylon.
    Including Chinese. And Russia, of course.

    I’ve come to realize that it’s uplifting to read about anyone engaging in constructive activity, and it saddens me to see so little of that in the west along similar lines.Not that Russia and China are neglecting their military, but nearly all large scale western projects seem to be militaristic and destructive, to the exclusion of anything else.

    I see.

    Has the west lost its ability to do something inspiring?

    Looks like it. As has the east.
    You think I’d be spending my time on topics like this if things were….that word of yours….”inspiring”? Prefer fishing to human affairs in general and (current) (geo)politics in particular. But…..hard to fish after M.A.D. And that option IS on the table, IMHO.

    • Replies: @cassandra
    , @The Scalpel
  272. Anonymous[215] • Disclaimer says:
    @Tom Welsh

    The only thing here flying in the face of Darwin is you, Tom. Human groups regularly wipe out other human groups. It’s called genocide.

    …a “genocidal” competitive exclusion of Neanderthals by Cro-Magnons on the basis of the ever-present aggressive human nature…

    The Quaternary megafaunal extinction and the fate of Neanderthals: An integrative working hypothesis

    https://doi.org/10.1016/j.quaint.2012.02.037

  273. @Z-man

    It’s immune to sarcasm.

    Even that produced by your rapier wit.

  274. cassandra says:
    @peterAUS

    You think I’d be spending my time on topics like this if things were….that word of yours….”inspiring”? But…..hard to fish after M.A.D. And that option IS on the table, IMHO.

    Yeah, though unspoken, that idea was behind what might have come across as naivete. I dunno, maybe M.A.D. might make extant and wannabee empires reconsider and try to reach accomodations. OTOH, maybe their elites will just dive into their underground bunker-condos and push the button. Your allusion to history is distressingly compelling.

  275. Anonymous[215] • Disclaimer says:
    @Z-man

    Which is why demolition companies have quit using explosives, now that cheaper diesel fuel and a few bins of waste paper has proven so effective. Voilà!

    • LOL: Ilyana_Rozumova
  276. Why no mention of George H. W. Bush’s brilliant victory over Panama? What’s a man to do to gain a little measure of respect?

  277. @Paul2

    Paul,
    I would be London to a brick that the people most vocally supporting the official “Murdoch syndicated” conspiracy theory are payed shills.

  278. @War for Blair Mountain

    Who is it, that is handing over the “California’s technological labor markets” to non-whites?

  279. Hu Mi Yu says:
    @Ernesto Che

    the US was “invited” into South Vietnam by the puppet regime it installed there in the 1st place. Therefore its attack on North Vietnam was still illegal and amounted to a war crime. Period.

    And when that regime asked the US to leave, we assassinated their president Ngo Diem: November 2, 1963:

    Upon learning of Diệm’s ouster and assassination, Hồ Chí Minh reportedly stated: “I can scarcely believe the Americans would be so stupid.”[130] The North Vietnamese Politburo was more explicit:

    The consequences of the 1 November coup d’état will be contrary to the calculations of the US imperialists … Diệm was one of the strongest individuals resisting the people and Communism. Everything that could be done in an attempt to crush the revolution was carried out by Diệm. Diệm was one of the most competent lackeys of the US imperialists … Among the anti-Communists in South Vietnam or exiled in other countries, no one has sufficient political assets and abilities to cause others to obey. Therefore, the lackey administration cannot be stabilized. The coup d’état on 1 November 1963 will not be the last.[130]

    After Diệm’s assassination, South Vietnam was unable to establish a stable government and several coups took place after his death. While the United States continued to influence South Vietnam’s government, the assassination bolstered North Vietnamese attempts to characterize the South Vietnamese as “supporters of colonialism”.[131]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ngo_Dinh_Diem

    I knew all this the day I was drafted for the war four years later. I ran away to Canada, but I didn’t have money or connections to stay. I came back and was arrested by the FBI. Finally I went in the Army. I just wanted everyone to know that I was opposed to this war. I was out in seven months on a medical discharge. A severe hernia and extensive allergies should have kept me out. A few weeks after I was out I read that my local draft board was shut down after they forced a man with a wooden leg to report for induction.

    I do resent Saker’s misrepresentation that American soldiers have all been volunteers since World War II. Korean and Vietnam vets had no choice. Even those who volunteer today often have no alternative. Local prosecutors cooperate with recruiters, so that young men today sometimes still have the choice of jail or the military.

  280. @James Speaks

    JS: It is refreshing to read a post on this site from someone who clearly knows what he is talking about.

    • Replies: @James Speaks
  281. Mulegino1 says:
    @Z-man

    Wrong. The “facade” was not made of aluminum. The structural steel perimeter columns had an aluminum cladding added to give a shiny appearance, that’s all.

    Do you believe that those who designed and built the Twin Towers were stark raving mad?

    • Replies: @Z-man
  282. @cassandra

    It would be interesting to read a similar discussion of Saker’s points, but starting from the psychology behind the Milgram experiment and mass propaganda.

    The Milgram experiment was a fraud.

    • Replies: @cassandra
  283. [This is not a "meme" website. If you want to clutter up comment-threads with stupid images, go back to 4chan, or expect to see all your comments trashed.]

    Who’s writing this?

    • Replies: @The Scalpel
  284. lysias says:
    @Anon

    As someone who served long enough in the U.S. military to have a pension and to be classified as a retired officer, I too find being thanked for my service inappropriate. I feel awkward and embarrassed. I’m too polite to say to people that I wish they wouldn’t say that, but that is how I feel.

  285. cassandra says:
    @Buster Keaton’s Stunt Double

    The Milgram experiment was a fraud.

    Can you elaborate, if possible with references?

  286. BB753 says:
    @Z-man

    You call “lighter weight materials” the solid steel beams encasing the outer shell of the buildings? I’ll tell you what’s made of light-weight materials: a commercial airplane, no matter how large.

    • Replies: @Z-man
  287. Wally says:
    @Simply Simon

    said:
    ” Every large controlled demolition I witnessed shows massive explosions at ground level. If that had happened it would have shown on the videos that were taken. In addition no one would have been able to escape from the buildings as hundreds did before the collapse. ”

    Indeed, and that’s why many firemen testified that they witnessed huge explosions at ground level & below. Explosions were further recorded as they spoke. see video below
    Those that did escape did so because the ground explosions were just the weakening agents prior to the timed sequential explosions, of which are easily seen in videos.
    Eyewitness Accounts of Explosions : https://www.ae911truth.org/evidence/eyewitness-accounts-of-explosions
    Explosive Features | Twin Towers : https://www.ae911truth.org/evidence/explosive-features
    High Velocity Explosion Bursts of Debris:

    much more: https://www.ae911truth.org/evidence/technical-articles/articles-in-the-journal-of-9-11-studies/411-high-velocity-bursts-of-debris-from-point-like-sources-in-the-wtc-towers

  288. @Anonymous

    I was willing to give The Saker the benefit of the doubt with his truculent article, but this link to his blog isn’t doing him any favors.

    “let me explain why I live in the USA … Simply put, it is my legal right.”

    It’s my legal right to consort with heroin junkies, or eat dirt, but that’s hardly a rationale.

    “None of that implies any kind of endorsement of anything, any big expressions of gratitude or any other ideological or emotional dimension.”

    Oh good, another post-ennui blogger. We don’t have enough of those.

    “In my case, it was really simple: I was blacklisted in my own country and I could not find work. My wife’s degrees were not recognized in Switzerland.”

    Well this certainly raises a whole series of questions, along the lines of both Michelle and Barack “voluntarily” surrendering their law licenses. Blacklisted why? And were your wife’s degrees in gender studies from Itawamba Community College in Fulton, MS? Why unrecognized?

    “So we moved to the USA were she could work and I could homeschool our kids.”

    Everything about that sounds wrong. YMMV.

    “I could have applied for US citizenship years ago, but I have no interest or desire to do so simply because I want to remain what I am today a “legal alien” – that status and even this otherwise weird expression suits me perfectly.”

    Ah, a permanent outsider, like a 45-year-old grad student. Life is easier when you don’t have to commit.

    This article was bad, but now that I’ve been treated to a glimpse of The Saker’s life and philosophy, I think we’ll both be happier if his future contributions remain a mystery to me.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  289. @Chris Bridges

    Wars of choice against countries that did not want Wall Street’s predators and US military bases- you know practicing self-determination and freedom of trading partners.

  290. @The scalpel

    You’re too stupid to understand the point.

    • Replies: @The Scalpel
  291. niceland says:

    When my neighbor damages my car with a hammer I blame him – not the hammer. In private I may admire the hammer for fantastic job – and thank it for it’s service but not when other hammers are listening. Just to make sure they don’t flock to the service of my neighbor for fame and glory!

    Your “privates” don’t make foreign policy, put the blame where it belongs.

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  292. @Simply Simon

    Thank you. Having tried to teach basic math and science to mainstream kids, I conclude most people do not have a sense of proportion that would allow them to understand, nor a basic insight as to the nature of matter and Newton’s Laws. For example, when asked, “Why every action has an equal and opposite reaction?” I tried to explain Hooke’s Law and that when I pressed down on a supposedly rigid table, the table experienced minute strains as though it were a very stiff spring. (It does, and it is.) This classroom of high school honors physics students responded with disbelief and concluded that I was some kind of idiot.

    I do not doubt that the Saker is knowledgeable in many areas and has sources that supply his posts with facts not readily available to most of us. I regret that he and a few others think that there were controlled demolitions in WTC 1, 2, and 7, but given the uniform way the towers collapsed, I can see why someone who does not have a background in Mechanics of Materials might reach an incorrect conclusion.

    I also do not share his blanket condemnation of our (I’m a US citizen) troops. Most of them are running at Kohlberg’s level three, that is, commitment to the tribe. Armed forces encourage this, as it is loyalty to the unit that enable servicemen, inclusive, to perform under fire. They do not want to let their buddies down!

    At the same time, Kohlberg level three moral reasoning precludes level four, or what we need in the higher ranks, level five reasoning. For the privilege of serving, our young people give up moral development. This is cause for sadness.

    • Replies: @lavoisier
    , @Simply Simon
  293. @chris

    but..but.. they were “freedom fighters” then and akin to America’s founding fathers.

    • Replies: @chris
  294. @Tom Welsh

    may I point out that it was the US government (in the person of President Madison) who declared war on Great Britain – not vice versa?

    My recollection is that Britain was kidnapping US sailors and forcing them to join the British navy. That strikes me as an act of war, even if they didn’t formally declare it.

    I grant you, this is what I remember learning in high school history, more than 50 years ago. I haven’t studied the subject since, and I certainly don’t assume that everything I was taught was true. My central point was that the US has been the aggressor in nearly all the wars it’s fought; if you’re saying the number of exceptions is smaller than I think, we have no serious quarrel.

  295. @peterAUS

    Not always. Sometimes the other side has to be made submit or/and get destroyed

    .

    On your knees, Aussie. Oh wait, you are still a colony. Never mind. Already there.

  296. @David In TN

    I’d say, comparing rhetoric, you are the one lacking an ability to express a cogent argument. Generally, that is a reflection of one’s (inferior) intellect. Of course, the possibility you are just playing ignorant also exists. So which is it? Are you going to advance an argument, or should I just assume you are incapable of doing so?

    • Replies: @David In TN
  297. Z-man says:
    @Mulegino1

    Right, aluminum cladded and the size and strength of the columns decreased with height so that the perimeter steel was more massive at the bottom than the top. Bottom line, the planes at speed PENETRATED.

  298. Z-man says:
    @BB753

    The size and strength of the columns decreased with height so that the perimeter steel was more massive at the bottom than the top. Bottom line, the planes at speed PENETRATED. If a plane could crash thru the massive stone façade of the Pentagon it could penetrate the slender steel of the upper floors of the WTC.

  299. peterAUS says:
    @Nancy Pelosi's Latina Maid

    Don’t say……

    Still, as for

    ..I think we’ll both be happier if his future contributions remain a mystery to me.

    apart from some quality information every now and then there is, perhaps, one better reason to read his and similar guys’ material.
    Recognizing the moment of shift in their attitude towards the current regime in Kremlin.
    That could point to possible changes there and, hopefully, for better.
    When true believers start doubting that’s the time, and Saker strikes me as one of those.

  300. lavoisier says: • Website
    @Intelligent Dasein

    I will see you cast out of this place and thrown into the fires of hell, there to suffer the eternity of pain and humiliation you so richly deserve.

    Not the forgiving type I would guess.

  301. lavoisier says: • Website
    @NoseytheDuke

    I have never yet met a structural engineer who bought into the government story. Admittedly my sample size is only 4, but every single one of them told me WTC 7 was a controlled demolition.

    All one has to do is watch WTC 7 freefall, knowing that it did not even get hit by a plane, to suspect that we are being lied to.

    And if it is so obvious that the conventional story is true, why not have an open discussion that can be used to explain to the skeptics exactly how a building not hit by a plane could fall in a manner strongly suspicious for a controlled demolition.

    And if one tower was a controlled demolition, it is not much of a stretch to think they blew them all and that there is something very wrong about the story we have been told by our government.

    There are a lot of smart people out there who do not buy the narrative.

    Sure you can shut them up and marginalize them, but unless this subject is discussed openly and honestly, one has to suspect that we are being lied to.

    • Replies: @Carroll Price
  302. L.K says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    NoseytheDuke says:

    @Herald
    It’s odd that this War for Blair Mountain character rails endlessly against those who are destroying “his” nation but then goes on to provide direct assistance to them by validating the lies surrounding their most successful act of war against the American people. Could it be the thin mountain air, I wonder?

    Indeed!

  303. @Realist

    I’ve said It before and will say it again – The last Americans to die defending their country were the Confederate soldiers who died defending theirs.

  304. @Intelligent Dasein

    Have you anything more to contribute than ad hominem attacks?

    • Replies: @Johnny Rico
  305. anon[178] • Disclaimer says:

    Finally, there is the ugly dirty little secret that everybody knows but, for some reason, very few dare to mention: the decision to join the (all volunteer) US military is one primarily based on financial considerations and absolutely not some kind of generous “service” of the motherland for pure, lofty, ideals.

    i suspect there are still more than a few patriotic men who join the military to serve

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  306. @Pilgrim

    What kind of sanctions do you propose putting on countries that have nothing but starving people who are in that condition as a result of predatory trade agreements like NAFTA?

  307. @Intelligent Dasein

    So, in other words, Intelligent Dasein is saying he, Dasein is an empty propagandist. What the government says is true because the government says so.

  308. Mulegino1 says:

    “Aluminum cladded” really means “aluminum coated” so this did not detract in any way from the strength of the structural steel at the point of impact, which equated to 1/4″ by 1/4″ by 1/4″ by 1/4″ structural steel of the box columns plus the extremely thick steel spandrels.

    There is no way that a 767 nose cone, fuselage or wings are going to slice through the perimeter of WTC2 like a knife through butter, as the fraudulent Hezarkhani video footage purports to show.

    The simple and straightforward principles of ballistics will not break down simply out of deference for an obviously contrived and manifestly false mainstream media narrative.

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  309. @Frederick V. Reed

    For a controlled demolition you need access to the site (easy when you own it), explosives and know how. Much easier than flying planes into buildings where you have to get past NORAD. Also controlled demolitions are done all the time to buildings which are not up to code and un-needed. For an illegal demolition it would be clever to make it look like an act of terrorism. There, that was not so difficult to understand, was it? People set fires for insurance money all the time. What it is special is when the government is involved, but we understand the world we live in, don’t we?

  310. JLK says:

    There are a lot of smart people out there who do not buy the narrative. Sure you can shut them up and marginalize them, but unless this subject is discussed openly and honestly, one has to suspect that we are being lied to.

    To steal an analogy I read on another site a few days ago (can’t remember which one), watching politics these days is a little bit like sitting down for a normal family dinner with the usual chit-chat after Dad stood up and cut your sister’s head off.

    Some of those smart people you referenced must be in the FBI, Congress and the media. Did the Leahy anthrax letters and the Wellstone plane crash warn them all off? Who is really running the country? Does anyone have a spine?

    Richard Gage’s ae911truth.com and a few other organizations have done an admirable job, but there have been no protests or resignations by public officials, other than Max Cleland, and even his was explained away on other issues.

    • Replies: @lavoisier
  311. @NoseytheDuke

    Thank you for your thoughtful reply.

    Here is another article that explains why the “low level” fire was sufficient to bring down the towers. Please note the difference between heat and temperature, that structural steel loses half its strength at 650C, and that (most important) deformations in the floor trusses caused failure of the angle clips supporting the truss ends at the exterior columns, followed by buckling then progressive collapse.

    I know you will consider this science carefully and change your mind, now that it has been carefully and patiently explained to you.

    • Replies: @James Speaks
    , @The Scalpel
  312. @David In TN

    The Japanese didn’t have a modern military until the US, under Teddy Roosevelt helped them build one to fight China and Russia. Followed by the US stabbing Japan in the back after getting what they wanted out of the deal. Read The Imperial Cruise.

    https://www.amazon.com/Imperial-Cruise-Secret-History-Empire/dp/B007MXCB6Y

  313. @Wally

    The US entering World War 1 was to make sure England and Socialism survived. World War 2 was to make sure Russia and Communism survived. We’re living with the results.

  314. @Tom Welsh

    More like at least 50,000 years. Humans are like other animals except for our size making us capable of controlling fire. This is why we are dominant.

    Ants cooperate and build quite effectively, but they are too small to control fire.

  315. L.K says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    Easy, easy now, Idiotic Dasein… take your meds before posting.

    Now, Mr. Cretin, you must have realized by now that this is Mr. Unz webzine and that Unz himself has written the following article?

    http://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-911-conspiracy-theories/

    Just in case you ‘missed’ it, okay boy? A snippet from Unz great article:

    “Let us now suppose that the overwhelming weight of evidence is correct, and concur with high-ranking former CIA intelligence analysts, distinguished academics, and experienced professionals that the 9/11 attacks were not what they appeared to be. We recognize the extreme implausibility that three huge skyscrapers in New York City suddenly collapsed at free-fall velocity into their own footprints after just two of them were hit by airplanes, and also that a large civilian jetliner probably did not strike the Pentagon leaving absolutely no wreckage and only a small hole. What actually did happen, and more importantly, who was behind it?”

    I bet this Unz article must have pissed you off. I like that!

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  316. @James Speaks

    The floor trusses spanned the distance between the exterior columns and the central core column group. This image shows how the floor trusses were connected to the exterior columns. When the trusses sagged, they pulled away from the exterior columns leaving them unsupported laterally.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  317. @The seventh shape

    This is an ad hominem attack. Nice job.

    Intelligent Dasein’s comment #23 is one of the finest complete annihilation of Saker’s demented worldview ever written here.

    I’m going to save it and read it before I read every Saker piece from now on. I love it.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  318. @Z-man

    Agreed. An analogy helps. 150,000 lbs of water balloon at speed would have penetrated the structure.

    • Replies: @Z-man
    , @ploni almoni
  319. @anon

    True, and yet the genius of the vile and evil ruse is that these patriots actually have contributed to the downfall of the very nation they thought they were making a sacrifice for.

    Let’s face it, of the 5.9 trillion dollars wasted there might have been a dollar or two for better forrest management, fire prevention and fire fighting equipment so Paradise would still be Paradise instead of ashes. A few extra dollars spent on improving levies around the nation wouldn’t have gone astray like the Pentagon’s missing trillions have. There must be thousands of ways that money and manpower could have been put to better use and nothing has been achieved, for America’s benefit.

    Some of the thousands of patriotic Americans killed in this criminal wars may even have become firefighters as well as fathers and grandfathers in time.

    If only the Homeland Security dollars had been used in providing better security and disaster relief for Americans in America instead of being squandered overseas or on programs that are actually against Americans, plus, those dollars might still be circulating in the economy actually improving the lives of American people

    It is truly sad.

    • Replies: @anon
  320. bjondo says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    ID reacts to truth like worm to salt.

    ID would be Yid.

  321. @James Speaks

    Do you have any links proving that Newton’s Laws are bunk or that the moon is actually made of cheese? You’ll find much better links in the 9/11 articles and comments on this site, click on them and possibly they will pry open your mind.

    Any person arguing that the official narrative of the WTC events is credible is either a fool or a lying traitor. I had called you a fool but I’m beginning to thing that you may fall into the latter category.

    • Agree: JLK
    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
  322. lavoisier says: • Website
    @JLK

    Agreed. The total silence on the matter is eerie and lends more plausibility to the narrative.

    But the fact that the subject is never openly discussed bothers me a lot.

    And what happened after the attacks–endless wars–really bothers me.

  323. Mr. Anon says:
    @JLK

    That’s an entirely meaningless graphic.

  324. I do not have a link that asserts the moon is made of cheese, but if there were a moontruther group that believed so, I would ask them to explain how the cow got there.

    Neither do I think Newton’s Laws are bunk. I also think Hooke’s Law, Young’s Modulus and Poisson’s Ratio are also valid concepts, as is Mohr’s Circle of Stress, and all are consistent with the structural analysis that explains how the towers collapsed.

  325. Mr. Anon says:
    @L. Ross

    I’m sorry, but the controlled demolition comment destroyed his credibility. What a tool.

    Yeah, that pretty much screams “I am an idiot. Ignore anything else I have to say.”

  326. @niceland

    My point exactly! But the thing is that Saker is running out of themes. (It is still good reading)

  327. Mr. Anon says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    You didn’t address any of James Speaks points. You just – as truthers invariably do – gas on about technical matters you know nothing about.

    • Replies: @JLK
    , @NoseytheDuke
  328. Wally says:
    @lysias

    Eichmann? LOL
    see:
    Andrew Mathis demolished yet again / his Eichmann challenge: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8033

    And seee comments #1076, 1362 at: American Pravda: Holocaust Denial : http://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/

    http://www.codoh.com

  329. Mr. Anon says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    1. The controlled demolition comment. L. Ross is absolutely right about the fact that this alone destroys Saker’s credibility. 9-11 Trutherism is among the most vapid forms of pure anal masturbation that the internet age has produced. There is no evidence whatsoever that there was any controlled demolition, or any reason to think that 9-11 wasn’t exactly what it appeared to be.

    You are right that there is no evidence whatsoever of controlled demolitions. As to whether there is any reason to think that 9/11 wan’t exactly what it appeared to be, that depends on when you are referring to: soon after the fact, or after the official investigation. Ryan Dawson has dug up a lot of information that is intriguing (google his name or look him up at his website antineoconreport). He might be the only non-stupid “truther”, maybe the only sane one. There were a lot of contemporaneous things that were widely known, and reported, that have since been forgotten, or were whitewashed out of the official narrative. There is some reason to suspect a wider conspiracy surrounding the events of that day and immediately after.

    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein
  330. JLK says:
    @Mr. Anon

    His points are out of the NIST playbook. They are very weak and are easy to address, but it is better to direct everyone to ae911truth.com. They are architects and engineers who have already done the legwork.

    • Replies: @James Speaks
    , @Mr. Anon
  331. @Mulegino1

    Your quote:
    “Aluminum cladded” really means “aluminum coated” so ,,,,,,,,,
    Your quote is a total nonsense.
    Cladding and coating are two different things. And there is no such thing as aluminum coated steel.
    Actually aluminum is not used for coating of anything,
    For coating of steel is used zink ( expensive process) or Nickel (much more expensive process)
    But cladding was not used either.
    The box columns about size 14x8x1/4 at bottom were spaced I am guessing were spaced 4 feet or 2 feet apart. The structure was covered by 8 feet X 4 feet anodized aluminum corrugated sheets gauge 18 or 16. The sheets were bolted or riveted to steel structure.
    …………………………………………………………………………………………
    (I do not know why I am writing this here you would not understand anyway.

    • Replies: @Mulegino1
  332. @Mr. Anon

    I have informed Mr Speaks a couple of times already that this thread is not about 9/11 and that there are some excellent articles to be found on this site that specifically address this subject along with thousands of comments, did you miss that? That suggestion applies to you too. The Saker has written an article that deserves to be discussed without interference from dissemblers such as Intelligent (sic) Dasein, James Speaks and yourself.

    Have a good day (Just kidding, I hope you shit your pants, slip on it and break your neck but please don’t take that wrong).

    • Replies: @The Scalpel
    , @Mr. Anon
  333. Patricus says:
    @The scalpel

    As you see it all we have to do is refuse to fight and then enemies will also put down their weapons. Kumbaya.

    It hasn’t worked that way in the past.

  334. Patricus says:
    @The scalpel

    I certainly don’t want unrestrained military men. That is the worst possible development. The soldier takes his orders from civilian leaders who we elect. We don’t always choose the best leaders.

    War is not a recent development. It appears to be hard wired in all humans. Those who refused to defend themselves are extinct.

    • Replies: @The Scalpel
    , @The Scalpel
  335. Saker the Russo-American,

    Surely all wars are civil wars since all nations sprang from a single family. Why would wars of aggression be unjust if they can prevent a future calamity? What if Russia had invaded Germany in 1933 and destroyed the Nazis? Or the Americans invaded Russia in 1917 and finished off the Bolsh☆ts? Or the Eastern Romans invaded the Arabian desert in 7th century A.D.? Of course hindsight is 20/20 but there is no telling which aggression could turn out to be for the greater good. Same with defensive wars if you live in a barbaric society faced with invasion by a more just … you get my point. War is evil but sometimes it becomes a necessary evil whether aggressive or defensive. Wars of pillage and plunder can never be justified. Greed is immoral. Capitalism itself maybe immoral. Its highest form maybe imperialism as that unmentionable Russian dude said. Conversly, wars will always be, like poverty and pestilence. They are Divine retribution for the sins of mankind. Saint David the King was given three choices and he chose pestilence to war, for it is better to fall in the hands of the Merciful Lord than of the cruel and wicked man. And those who fall by the sword fare better than those by hunger.
    I like your writings on the Orthodox Church and spiritual matters. P.S. Keep up. Thank you.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  336. Saker, I really like your analysis since I am also very analytical myself but I have to disagree here.
    What your analysis sorely misses is that many service men and women fell that military service is akin to patriotism…which is a good thing when it isn’t co-opted by sinister forces. I have read in your other articles about Russian patriotism and that is normal and fine too.

  337. @James Speaks

    Speak, James! James Speaks (barks)! James, roll over! James rolls over! James, chase the ball! (Fake the ball throwing) James chases the imaginary ball! Good dog, James, here’s a doggie treat!

  338. @JLK

    The National Institute of Standards and Technology has as its mission “Promote U.S. innovation and industrial competitiveness by advancing measurement science, standards, and technology in ways that enhance economic security and improve our quality of life.”

    The Journal of Minerals, Metals and Metallurgy is devoted to materials science applied to metals.

    The American Society of Civil Engineers, Structural Division, is concerned with science and technology related to structural design and, of course, public safety.

    All these, and many others, publish analyses and data to enhance future designs and to enhance building codes. I do not believe any of these organizations could be coerced into publishing incorrect analysis or falsified data, as that would negate their purpose(s) for being.

    • Replies: @ploni almoni
  339. @Hu Mi Yu

    It might be nice to have a single letter of supporting data.

    good grief . . .

    Note: it might occur to most actually paying attention, that the S. Vietnamese, did not have a stable government before the S. Vietnamese leadership opted to remove their president. Hint: coupes are evidence of instability — but ssssssssssssh . . . don’t tell anyone.

    You don’t seem capable of making up your minds — puppet, stable, unstable ——-

    The S. Vietnamese government was transitioning from a monarchy to something favoring democracy. When it would be stable and secure is anyone’s guess.

    The US teetered on the brink for many years. but I find it funny that you take your understanding from the N. Vietnamese –

    Goodness me oh my.

    ” Local prosecutors cooperate with recruiters, so that young men today sometimes still have the choice of jail or the military.”

    Laughing —- Ahhh, the ol’ US armed services are conscript soldiers. Snore. It is stunning that anyone took Vietnamese communists seriously. Tell us exactly what percentage of the military is comprised on would be prisoners.

    • Replies: @Hu Mi Yu
  340. @James Speaks

    Your posts seem to be well reasoned. How do you explain WTC 7 collapsing in the rapid symmetrical manner in which it did? It seems that if we assume for the sake of argument that fires did bring that building down, the fires were certainly not symmetrical and the building should have only partly collapsed or should have very asymmetrically collapsed.

    • Replies: @James Speaks
  341. @NoseytheDuke

    …this thread is not about 9/11 and that there are some excellent articles to be found on this site that specifically address this subject along with thousands of comments, did you miss that? That suggestion applies to you too. The Saker has written an article that deserves to be discussed without interference …..

    You are correct. Sorry about my OT post. Too late to remove it.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  342. @WJ

    Should have gone Air Force. I was CCT and got to do all that sans shoe shining & poncho ironing.

  343. @Intelligent Dasein

    I think everyone else said it all. I just wanted to stomp on the remains a bit for emphasis.

  344. @Mario964

    I think it is fair only to say it shed light on the culture in which the experiment was run. The USA. Indeed some others may have been worse but I do not doubt many others would have been better.

    The Milgram Experiment was done at Yale and though it used various ages and occupations it did only use ones from the one culture.

  345. @Intelligent Dasein

    What a beauty you are mate. That was a huge effort and I think The Saker should be touched by such devotion.

  346. jb says:
    @L. Ross

    Yes, exactly. I wonder if The Sakar is also “absolutely certain” that the government is controlled by shapeshifting alien lizard people? I am enormously grateful to unz.com for supporting Steve Sailer, but I am reluctant to direct people to his posts because of crap like this on the site.

  347. When someone tells me “Thank you for your service.” I answer, “The honor was mine and no thanks is needed.” For some people, the military, police or fire service is a satisfying job. As a retired firefighter and ex-Army special forces medic, I would argue that you are paid and respected not for what you do but for what you may be asked to do by all those hiding from danger. The politics of the task isn’t really a factor.

    With that being said, I don’t disagree with your points. The bigger picture is this. The Roman Empire split into the Catholic church and the Eastern Orthodox church. The Catholic church split between the Protestants and the Catholics. The Protestant church split between the Church of England and the Lutheran church and then shattered into a (shall we say) thousand points of light. Finally the power of the Roman Empire via the Roman Catholic church and the Church of England drifted to the shores of the New World where it fully resides today and remains the bitter enemy of the culture of Eastern Orthodox church by political design. All America is is the ultimate outcome of the Roman Empire. No club of powerful Americans got together and conspired to “Make America Great(er)” than the rest of the world. It was fate pure and simple.

    All cultures possess powerful men and of these men, many if not most are evil and use their power to carry out self serving evil tasks. The rest of the population is irrelevant. They choose to remain un-involved and hope to remain under the radar of the evil ones and draw from life all the pleasure they can. It is just that today the evil class uses America and Americans as a tool and finance its military and reward its citizens with bread and circuses for not getting to upset over having to fight a few lopsided wars they don’t really understand. It’s a deal any country would take. If it wasn’t America, it would be somebody else. And trust me, point it out isn’t going to make a rat’s ass difference.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  348. @cassandra

    What you say boils down to this:
    Politicians initiate and wage wars and even in authoritarian states, rely on the press to brainwash the population in order to retain overal support for fighting these wars. (You do not mention it, but both the politicians and the press take their orders from others, usually big business and haute finance).

    The small minority that has enjoyed a decent education or is otherwise, thanks to native intelligence, less prone to swallow government propaganda, write or say the kind of stuff the Saker is writing.

    Indeed, those with an intellectual disposition encounter problems with social integration, find it difficult to make a career in any kind of organization, and not seldom experience problems with the “authorities.”

  349. @The Scalpel

    I have enjoyed reading your comments previously and there’s certainly no need to apologise to me for that comment. I too commented on 9/11 right after the coincidence theorist Intelligent (sic) Dasein aggressively jumped on The Saker for his brief mention that he believed that there were controlled demolitions.

    I think we, the more clear-headed on the matter, should nip in the bud any reference to 9/11 that seeks to give any credence to the Loony Tunes notion that events unfolded in the manner of the official government/MSM fairytale lest the madness spread further than it already has.

    I don’t know if James Speaks is a reasonable person or not but given that he introduces pieces of pasta to back up his claims on the cause of the WTC destruction, I suspect that he’s not.

    Cheers

    • Replies: @James Speaks
  350. lavoisier says: • Website
    @James Speaks

    At the same time, Kohlberg level three moral reasoning precludes level four, or what we need in the higher ranks, level five reasoning. For the privilege of serving, our young people give up moral development. This is cause for sadness.

    I would think moral development would NOT be a priority for the military. In fact I could see where moral development would be counterproductive to a military.

    When you start questioning the justice of killing someone your ability to kill becomes compromised.

    No, you have to believe that the enemy, however defined, deserves to die.

    And this belief must not be subject to doubt.

  351. @The Scalpel

    Not well versed in the collapse of WTC 7, so I spent some time watching videos, then I read the reports and watched simulations.

    From the videos, it certainly looks like a controlled demolition. It looks similar to what you would get if explosive charges were set off around the perimeter.

    What the videos do not show, however, is the damage to the southwest quadrant of the tower on the lower floors. What cannot be seen, moreover, is that presence of several large transfer beams, trusses actually, to carry vertical loads from upper floors around an electric substation at ground level, nor the status of beam column connections in the eastern half of the building. The columns supporting these transfer beams (79, 80 and 81) are more heavily loaded than other columns in the structure.

    The fires in WTC 7 burned for seven hours before certain beam-column connections failed. These provided lateral support for column 79, which buckled. After that, collapse was a progressive event where the interior of the structure around column 79 failed first on lower floors, and as each floor failed, it pulled the cdolumn above it down. Then the collapse proceeded east to west across the interior of the structure, finally pulling the exterior colums inward and down.

    Contrasting, in WTC 1 and 2 collapses, exterior column failed first, then as the upper floors pancaked, the core was brought down by dynamic loading. In WTC 7 collapse, interior columns failed first in the eastern half, then progressivly across the westen half, then the exterior shell.

    Comparing, in all three cases, the primary cause of collapse was the fires which damaged beam-column connections.

  352. @lavoisier

    I would think moral development would NOT be a priority for the military. In fact I could see where moral development would be counterproductive to a military.
    When you start questioning the justice of killing someone your ability to kill becomes compromised.
    No, you have to believe that the enemy, however defined, deserves to die.
    And this belief must not be subject to doubt.

    Agreed.

    This is why it is important to save the armed forces for situations where defense of the country is needed.

  353. Z-man says:
    @James Speaks

    A-hole, and the weight of the 767 was over 300,000 lbs.

    • Replies: @James Speaks
  354. @jilles dykstra

    ” The U.S.A. is a powerful empire. It is expansionist. It’s no different from the British, Soviets, Chinese, ”
    It is quite different from what the British empire was.

    IMO the Empires have as much commonality as difference. Both Empires were the creation of Jewish bankers for their commercial interests and the US outrage of Pearl Harbour, and for that matter the capture of the US Embassy in Tehran, which was full of spies, are common. The differences are that the (((British))) Empire brought some form of governance structure and progress that still exists today in varying degrees, whereas the (((American))) Empire has brought much greater death, destruction, and chaos.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  355. @Hu Mi Yu

    :Hu Mi Yu: thanks for that expansive clarification, interesting get an angle on it from someone like you.

    Regarding Saker’s comment: I understand that a number of “volunteers” may have been “persuaded” to “volunteer” (they probably got a arm-twisting offer they could not refuse) but those numbers are small compared to the total number of US soldiers. Furthermore, those who “persuaded” could still have refused to carry out orders, which would have landed them back to square 1. While I understand that it was a way out of prison or some other unpleasant situation, there is still no need to extend a thank you for services rendered, they did not execute orders as a service rendered.

  356. Sparkon says:
    @L.K

    You quoted Ron Unz on 9/11. There are those who suggest that all comments about 9/11 should appear only under Rons’ 9/11 article, but that article is closed to further comments. Beyond that, mistakes about 9/11 must be corrected where they appear, rather than somewhere else.

    With that in mind, please consider my suggested corrections to Mr. Unz’s statement:

    We recognize the extreme implausibility that [1] three huge skyscrapers in New York City suddenly collapsed at free-fall velocity into their own footprints after just two of them were hit by airplanes, and also [2] that a large civilian jetliner probably did not [could] strike the Pentagon leaving absolutely no wreckage and only a small hole.

    It should be obvious from watching the videos that WTC 1 and WTC 2 did not collapse into their own footprints, nor did they collapse at free-fall speed throughout the entire sequence of their demolitions. Those two characteristics may apply to WTC 7, but not to the twin towers. In fact, the word “collapse” itself is somewhat misleading, at least for WTC 1 and WTC 2, as those two massive buildings were blown apart from the top down with much material ejected laterally and spilling out well beyond the respective footprints of the two towers.

    Close examination of the big NOAA overhead image of lower Manhattan taken not long after 9/11 shows many of the so-called chex sections scattered all around and well beyond the WTC site, including one of these 3-story 3-column sections stuck in and protruding from the shattered curvy class exterior of the Winter Garden Atrium across the street from the WTC complex.

    This URL leads to a preview page with a direct link to the huge 9372×9372 pixel NOAA overhead WTC aftermath image. Open the big image and click to zoom in.

    Study of the image should dispel the lingering myth that the twin towers collapsed into their own footprints.

    Typing was one of the skills I picked up during my peaceful service with the USAF. I thank myself and my country for my service, and I honor it by employing some of those skills here for the further edification of all sincere 9/ll skeptics and men of good will.

    Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.

    — John Fitzgerald Kennedy, inaugural address, Jan. 20, 1961

    My job and the task of my command during my service was to detect an attack or preparations for an attack by the Soviet Union on the United States. No such attacks were made, and I can conclude therefore that my service was entirely successful.

  357. @lavoisier

    If killing were not amoral question as it seems to be across the planet, the evidence would most likely be indicated by “take no prisoner” postures. Now one might question the seriousness of something the UCMJ or the Geneva convention protocols. But the US whatever the hurdles includes them part of the standard training practice – even if it just cursory.

    And while it may appear as mere window dressing — men in combat might very well appreciate the consideration even amidst wars brutal realities. Just war theories and just treatments have been part of warfare probably since the first wars.

    In this I am forced to consider the response by allied forces to the Japanese, upon recognizing that Japan had few moral barriers to the treatment of prisoners. By and large the allies did respond reciprocate that ethos.

    Killing is a means to an end – not the end.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  358. @EliteCommInc.

    EliteCommInc: uhhh, I hate to break it to you, but you are the one who does not know what he is talking about. It is a well-known fact the Diem government was installed by the US regime. See also Hu Mi Yu’s expansive comment on this page.

    As for the US attacking North Vietnam for an “incursion” into SV, why then was the false flag Gulf of Tonkin/USS Maddox incident in order to get involved in that war?

    You can still try to justify the US regime’s imperialist activities in SE Asia, but that BS has been extensively exposed. Good bye.

  359. @EliteCommInc.

    @EliteCommInc.: you cannot justify the imperialist activities of the US regimes there any loger. Good bye, cowboy.

  360. @Z-man

    Fine, 300,000 lbs. I was pointing out that even a massive balloon full of water traveling 600 mph would penetrate the exterior of the WTC. Thus, it does not matter that the material that impacted was not as strong as steel.

    A-hole

    What did you mean by that?

    • Replies: @Z-man
  361. klokman says:

    Facing induction into the Vietnam conflict I tried enlisting, only to be classified 4F. Three years later, hoping to get training in photography I tried the Air Force under the guaranteed job program. I can only figure they took me because my entrances scores were so damn high. Disqualified for eyesight, I took the discharge option to their dismay and paid my own way through college. My first job was working for a military contractor, and I began to learn what Ike had warned about with the military/industrial/economic complex. I quit that kind of work and went into commercial/industrial products.

    Some years later, desperate for work I found employment at Thiokol, thinking I would be supporting the space shuttle. Turned out I spent as much time on the MX missile system and propellant destruct pad. From that experience I vowed never to work for a company that made its bread and butter off war machine contracts again. And I didn’t. But I knew quite a number of people who saw nothing wrong with making a living off taxing their neighbors to construct instruments of misery and death.

    It is one thing to engage in the Complex to fend off aggression. It is quite another to engage in aggression for profit, fueled by traders, merchants, and business objectives. It was that portion of the U.S. that provoked the Revolutionary War, presenting the populace with no alternative. And as usual, the poorer sector paid the highest price for the bungling of Franklin and the merchants, afterward conned into the National behemoth that has run wild ever since.

    • Replies: @Fatima Manoubia
  362. @Mr. Anon

    You are right that there is no evidence whatsoever of controlled demolitions. As to whether there is any reason to think that 9/11 wan’t exactly what it appeared to be, that depends on when you are referring to:

    It’s not as if I expect anybody to read through my archives, but (just for the record) I have written several times on this website that the US government was clearly embarrassed and acting strangely on 9-11. There was a lot to cover up, namely the CIA realizing that one of its own creations had gone rogue, with the active assistance of elements withing the Saudi government and possibly within the US’ own intelligence community. If the Truthers would have confined themselves to this, then I myself would have been a Truther. But the controlled demolition stuff is just nonsense.

  363. anon[291] • Disclaimer says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    Let’s face it, of the 5.9 trillion dollars wasted there might have been a dollar or two for better forrest management, fire prevention and fire fighting equipment so Paradise would still be Paradise instead of ashes. A few extra dollars spent on improving levies around the nation wouldn’t have gone astray like the Pentagon’s missing trillions have. There must be thousands of ways that money and manpower could have been put to better use and nothing has been achieved, for America’s benefit.

    even better, the southern border could have been secured

  364. Jacques says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    My guess is that you felt addressed by the Swiss Russian. He was just writing what others should have done years before him but didn’t. But some honest of your fellow countrymen have indeed been writing about the same kind of issues in about the same tone and going further back in time. Nothing changed, the USA have been a bunch of cold blooded killers since the very beginning. Have a look and ‘enjoy’:

    http://mtwsfh.blogspot.com/2007/12/1800-1849-thirty-two-invasions-and.html

  365. BB753 says:
    @Z-man

    We don’t know what penetrated the stone facade of the Pentagon.

  366. Mr. Anon says:
    @JLK

    His points are out of the NIST playbook.

    The NIST report. “Playbook” is a loaded term. Those points are not weak, and – given that neither you nor he addressed them – not so easy to address.

    • Replies: @JLK
  367. Mr. Anon says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    I have informed Mr Speaks a couple of times already that this thread is not about 9/11 and that there are some excellent articles to be found on this site that specifically address this subject along with thousands of comments, did you miss that?

    I.e., the same old fallacious twaddle always referenced by you lot.

    The Saker has written an article that deserves to be discussed without interference from dissemblers such as Intelligent (sic) Dasein, James Speaks and yourself.

    No, he doesn’t. He doesn’t have a right to have any foolish thing he writes go unrebutted. He wrote an article on a site with a comment section. So I am commenting. I think he’s full of sh*t. You are too.

  368. JLK says:
    @Mr. Anon

    The NIST conclusions are obviously contrived to anyone having training in physics or structural engineering and who looks at the facts. The ae911truth.com website has already done the work to debunk them.

    NIST has refused to release its computer models for third party review. The reason is that it had to keep tweaking the input values into the impossible range in order to get the desired result for buildings 1 and 2. As far a Building 7 is concerned, they admitted for several years that there was no good explanation for the collapse, before they eventually came out with a very impossible cooked-up theory.

    To those of us with some technical training, it’s not even a close call. We’re not going to believe someone who warns us that the backyard grill is going to collapse the next time we throw a lit match onto the charcoal.

  369. peterAUS says:
    @Joe Wazzzz

    Agree with:

    …you are paid and respected not for what you do but for what you may be asked to do by all those hiding from danger.

    …All cultures possess powerful men and of these men, many if not most are evil and use their power to carry out self serving evil tasks. The rest of the population is irrelevant. They choose to remain un-involved and hope to remain under the radar of the evil ones and draw from life all the pleasure they can.

    …reward its citizens with bread and circuses for not getting to upset over having to fight a few lopsided wars they don’t really understand. It’s a deal any country would take. If it wasn’t America, it would be somebody else. And trust me, point it out isn’t going to make a rat’s ass difference.

    The second paragraph is thought provoking. Explains, probably, that constant resentment, even hatred, of Russia, by Western elites.

  370. peterAUS says:
    @anno nimus

    ….wars will always be, like poverty and pestilence. They are Divine retribution for the sins of mankind.

    An interesting point.
    Not so sure about “always”, though. “Proper” exchange of MIRVs between the major players could put a stop to that human activity. Or any activity, in fact.

  371. peterAUS says:
    @lavoisier

    In fact I could see where moral development would be counterproductive to a military.

    When you start questioning the justice of killing someone your ability to kill becomes compromised.

    No, you have to believe that the enemy, however defined, deserves to die.

    And this belief must not be subject to doubt.

    Outstanding. Shows how, even in this age of instant information, people can be utterly clueless about topics they are keen on discussing.
    You really have no idea how military works. No idea whatsoever.
    Good.

    • Replies: @lavoisier
    , @anon
  372. peterAUS says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Agree.

    As for this:

    Killing is a means to an end – not the end.

    It is, most of the time. Not always, though.
    There are always individuals in military (those around 1 % at least) which are there just to indulge in that activity.
    And, one could argue that there have been some societies, regimes, which were close to the later. Like, “killing them all is God’s wish”, or similar.

  373. @Curmudgeon

    That jewish banksters created the British empire, cannot remember ever having read such an explanation, not in for example
    Frank McLynn, ´1759, The Year Britain became Master of the World’, London 2005
    This explanation is mine, that is, never found it anywhere, but I often wondered if the British custom of the eldest son getting the whole inheritance may explain British ruthless,I must say, colonialism, not just far away, but also in Ireland and the Scottish Highlands.
    The Vikings also left anything to the eldest son, as far as I know, the name Normandy still is the result.
    But also in England itself ruthless behaviour towards tenants:
    Maurice Beresford, ‘The Lost Villages of England’, 1969, London
    When wool prices went up considerably tenants who mostly grew grain were evicted ruthlessly, as a contemporary wrote ‘in tears they wandered along the king’s highways’.
    What happened to them after they ran out of tears, Beresford does not say.
    But even whole villages disappeared because the landlord wanted a better view from his estate.
    Also kidnapping for the British navy, press gangs, was ruthless, no less ruthless than kidnapping blacks for slavery in Africa
    Roy & Lesley Adkins, ‘Jack Tar, The extraordinary lives of ordinary seamen in Nelson’s navy’, 2009 London
    Those complaining of slavery now do not seem to have a clue that ordinary people just a few hundred years ago were treated not much better than slaves.

  374. Z-man says:
    @James Speaks

    LOL, I thought you were being sarcastic with your previous reply, my bad.

    • Replies: @James Speaks
  375. Mulegino1 says:
    @Ilyana_Rozumova

    Only God knows what point you are trying to make. So the sheets were bolted to the steel perimeter columns. Precisely how does this affect my argument?

    A simple crash test will demonstrate that the nose cone, fuselage and wings of a commercial Boeing 767 will not penetrate structural steel. Therefore, no commercial airliner penetrated to the interior of the buildings.

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  376. Mulegino1 says:
    @Z-man

    You mean you still believe that a commercial airliner struck the Pentagon?

    The flight path of the 757, as described by the official narrative, is a total and utter impossibility, as it would have involved the aircraft flying below ground level as it approached the Pentagon.

    • Replies: @Z-man
  377. @James Speaks

    Surely you mean the structure would have penetrated the water balloon? And have you ever used a kerosene heater only to watch it melt before yours eyes?

    • Replies: @James Speaks
  378. Tom Verso says:
    @wholy1

    Yes there has to be a distinction between the draft solider and the volunteer. I don’t know if the conscripted deserve our thanks but they absolutely beyond any doubt deserve our apologies and all the medical benefits and disability benefits available to them free of charge. We as a nation OWE them at least that much.

  379. @James Speaks

    So you are saying that there is something rotten in denmark. You, perhaps.

  380. peterAUS says:
    @Johnny Rico

    I’m going to save it and read it before I read every Saker piece from now on.

    My method, when reading Saker’s articles (and the resident “Team Russia” comments here) is simple: “is the topic/subject/whatever good for Kremlin?”.
    That’s his/theirs sole criteria, everything is based on.

    In this particular case, “is big US military, supported by general population, good for Kremlin”? Of course not. Hence,not a good thing. Hence, let’s write how bad the thing is. Because it’s really bad. Based on the fundamental criteria.

    Getting harder, recently, to wade through all those adjectives and attributes (“stupid”, “incompetent” etc.) but, that’s the price to pay to see how “they” think and feel.

  381. chris says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    In point of fact, if these guys were actual Taliban or Mujahadin, then they really were freedom fighters who were defending their homeland and have continued to do so ever since. I just had to throw the picture in, because of the comment the guy made regarding the Soviets having set the Muslim world on fire, was so demonstrably false.

    It was the Wahhabis, which we asked the Saudis to sponsor (see WaPo interview with MBS) were the ones who set the Muslim world ablaze.

    • Agree: NoseytheDuke
  382. Tulip says:
    @jilles dykstra

    I think it is fair to say that in Mein Kampf, Hitler envisioned lebenstraum for Germany from the borders of Germany to the Altai mountains. This involved “relocating” all the lesser peoples along the way, and would necessarily require war. Much is said about Jewish losses, but had the Russian campaign gone more favorably for Germany, I suspect the death count for the Slavs would dwarf the 5.0 – 6.0 million Jews that most historians cite for the Holocaust.

    Hitler imagined that the UK and America had competing interests and would not get involved in the war, which when it turned out to be wrong, he blamed on International Zionism. So no, Hitler didn’t **want** war with America or the UK (probably because he knew he would lose it). But he took high risk actions which did not render the involvement of the UK or the US unforeseeable, suggesting his “instincts” were flawed.

    Hitler also fought a suicidal campaign against his Russian ally on his “intuition” that the Soviet Union would collapse in 6 months, allowing the Germans to focus on the War across the sea. Wrong again.

    At the end of the day, in terms of population and production as well as natural resources, Nazi Germany was hopelessly outclassed in terms of men and machines and the Allied victory was inevitable. I’d grant that Hitler had chutzpah, except that his reckless pursuit of hegemony resulted in the slaughter of millions and enormous damage to infrastructure. I would also point out the long-term damage Hitler has caused to any moderate conservative nationalist politics, and has lead to the death of Germany as a nation.

    In my view, Hitler’s biggest crime was losing, which makes his series of high-stakes gambles with the lives of others seem, well, gratuitous and stupid. But given the disparities in resources, population, and economic production, the fact that Hitler lost does not come as a surprise, but reflects the fundamentally flawed strategy of a midwit rabble rouser. I think it may be unfair to hold the Holocaust against him, as from his moral perspective, it was pretty clear that he considered Jews subhuman, but if you consider the impact of his actions on his own acknowledged “tribe”, the results were enormously destructive.

    It would have been far better if Germany had won the First World War, and the whole thing avoided, with America playing a reasonable role in brokering a peace in Europe, instead of siding against the Central Powers and then pursuing a “democracy/power vacuum” in Eastern Europe. But Wilson was an idiot as well, although unlike Hitler, a victorious idiot.

  383. JLK says:

    I think it is fair to say that in Mein Kampf, Hitler envisioned lebenstraum for Germany from the borders of Germany to the Altai mountains. This involved “relocating” all the lesser peoples along the way, and would necessarily require war.

    Mein Kampf did imply that the Reich needed to expand to the East for living room and access to resources, but wasn’t especially deprecatory towards the Slavs. It refers to Russia as a “great nation” and Russians as a “great people.”

    • Replies: @chris
    , @Tulip
  384. @ploni almoni

    I meant what I said. 75 tones of anything liquid or solid moving at the speed of a 767 would penetrate the glass curtain walls, and, don’t call me Shirley.

  385. chris says:
    @JLK

    Thanks JK, I never heard that !

    I guess I should consult original sources from time to time and not rely on hearsay, even if everyone has always repeated it.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  386. @The Scalpel

    The Japanese on December 7, 1941 were coming to kill us. And was the Japanese military’s actions at Nanking and everywhere else “angelic?”

    • Replies: @ploni almoni
    , @The scalpel
  387. @NoseytheDuke

    I don’t know if James Speaks is a reasonable person or not but given that he introduces pieces of pasta to back up his claims on the cause of the WTC destruction,

    As a piece of spaghetti will have structural properties useful in an analogy, I will use it so. But you are right, a brittle material such as pasta was the wrong example. A piece of coat hanger wire works better.

    Cut a piece about an inch long and try to bend it by compressing the ends. You can, but it requires effort. Now cut another piece eight inches long and try to bend it, again using only axial compression. You will see that you can cause it to bend, that is, buckle using much less effort.

    The term kl/r is known as the slenderness ratio, and is part of the equation for the Euler buckling load of slender columns.. k is a coefficient based on the end conditions. In our example, which we call pinned ends, k = 1. l is the length of the column and r is the radius of gyration. Here is a link. Educate yourself.

    When the lateral support pulled away from the columns (caused by heat induced sagging), kl/r became a multiple of the value the columns had been designed for.

    So, you were very clever. Spaghetti is useful for describing slender concrete columns, but coat hanger wire is what I should have used. My bad.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  388. peterAUS says:
    @chris

    Mein Kampf did imply that the Reich needed to expand to the East for living room and access to resources, but wasn’t especially deprecatory towards the Slavs. It refers to Russia as a “great nation” and Russians as a “great people.”

    Thanks JK, I never heard that !

    I guess I should consult original sources from time to time and not rely on hearsay, even if everyone has always repeated it.

    The most…..informative……exchange I’ve seen on this site for quite some time.
    Re-read it a couple of times, actually.

    Here is my train of thought, especially recently: democracy->people in power are result of free will of the majority, most of the time. Their, ahm, judgement.
    Now…I know for fact that the majority simply can’t even be bothered with topics as WW2 and such. Commentators above are way above that common denominator.

    Just had to write this. If it doesn’t make sense, even better.

  389. wholy1 says:
    @David In TN

    VERY interesting little “factoid” if valid. Thx.

  390. @James Speaks

    You say as part of your training you watched reports and simulations? How interesting. Who made these reports and simulations? The same people who blew them up? Euler, indeed.

    • Replies: @James Speaks
  391. @David In TN

    And we were in Burma to kill them. As volunteers, of course in Claire Chennault’s “Flying Tigers.” It is even more simple than you make it.

  392. The scalpel says: • Website
    @David In TN

    Ok, you make a very basic point. People are entitled to self defense. I agree with that as long as one does not distort the idea of ‘defense’ beyond all recognition.

    My point is more subtle. I contend that the brakes that prevent ‘defense’ from being used as an excuse to commit aggression lie within each human conscience and are the true responsibility of each individual.

    The Japaneese soldiers involved should have refused to attack Pearl Harbor just as the pilots involved in nuking Hiroshima should have refused. Humans on both sides should be encouraged to disobey orders they disagree with. They should be held personally responsible when they do not.

    Will this end all aggression? No. But it will thin the ranks on both sides getting rid of those who mistakenly believe that following orders that contradict their conscience is a good thing. Those who remain, who have no real conscience should, in the interest of the future of humanity, die before they can reproduce and do so in a way that causes the least possible harm to innocent bystanders.

    Will humanity ever achieve this? I know I can achieve it at a personal level and can attempt to convince others not to throw away their lives and those of others under false pretenses. My approach is at least moving things in the right direction and my hope is that quantum entanglement, the butterfly effect, God, etc. will do the rest.

    There is no downside to my approach that is not already there as things stand. My approach liberates humanity and the human conscience and gets things moving in a positive direction instead of resigning oneself to hopelessness and thus becoming another part of the problem instead of being part of the the solution

    Nothing I have just stated is complicated. It relies on faith in right and wrong. Fwiw, I am agnostic so yes, even that is possible

  393. @jilles dykstra

    Your quote:
    British custom of the eldest son getting the whole inheritance may explain British ruthless,I must say, colonialism, not just far away, but also in Ireland and the Scottish Highlands.
    ………………………………………………………………………………….
    It is not only British custom. It was the ancient custom all over the world in the time of herders.
    Remember the story of Abraham?
    His older brother got everything, the all herd while Abraham got nothing. zilch.
    Than Abraham prostituted his sister wife to pharaoh, and blackmailed pharaoh until pharaoh give him a herd. And that was the beginning of Jewish philosophy.

  394. @Chris Bridges

    Yeah, sure…we can see, after you wiped out most of communists in the world by every kind of creative method of assassination ( including the assassination of the USSR with the complicity of some inside traitors ) we have been left only to see the Capitalist madness your people have unleashed on the world…
    The current madness in Syria, Lybia, Yemen, Palestine and so on, have been all created by you without any presence of communists from decades ago.
    And for the Islamists, do not play the fool, because since you are here, there is plenty of information on the net which proves that those radical islamist have been always trained, armed and logistically supported by you ( and not only, but also Nazis in the Ukraine and around the world….). That they one day turn against you, after you have reduced their countries to smitheerens, is only a case of poetic justice or karma, choose what you want…( as it happens with the Taliban )….

    Anyway, the fact that there is so few of you who have come here to literally fry The Saker, when at his own blog that is materially impossible because of the harsh censure reigning there, is a proof that this is a psy-op operation from the US military itself ( to whom The Saker belongs ), as it is his blog itself…..With this article, he is only testing what is the grade of aproval the US military has in the US in the prospect of a probable military coup when skies will be fallen…

  395. @jilles dykstra

    Your quote:
    British custom of the eldest son getting the whole inheritance may explain British ruthless,I must say, colonialism, not just far away, but also in Ireland and the Scottish Highlands.
    ………………………………………………………………………………….
    It is not only British custom. It was the ancient custom all over the world in the time of herders.
    Remember the story of Abraham?
    His older brother got everything, the all herd while Abraham got nothing. zilch.
    Than Abraham prostituted his sister wife to pharaoh, and blackmailed pharaoh until pharaoh give him a herd. And that was the beginning of Jewish philosophy.

  396. Tulip says:
    @JLK

    Well, there was “Generalplan Ost”:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost

    http://www.dfg.de/pub/generalplan/planung_1.html

    https://www.ifz-muenchen.de/heftarchiv/1958_3.pdf

    My German is not so good. I am sure the intention was to relocate the Slavs to nicely appointed farms in Siberia where with the help of lost Atlantian technology alongside Hyperborean energy fields, Siberia would become a tropical paradise.

  397. The scalpel says: • Website
    @James Speaks

    I follow your reasoning. I suspect that although it is possible to explain the collapse of WTC 7 by heat induced stress (the old saw that one can prove anything with satistics comes to mind) that the finer math, if possible, would demonstrate that a collapse with such symmetry would be impossible given the initial conditions.

    One should entertain the strong possibility that appearances are not deceiving in this case.

    I would also submit two near “confessions”.

    1. Larry Silverstein’s “pull it” comment. One cannot reasonably dismiss that.
    2. The “prior knowledge” broadcasts by the BBC, etc. – these represent a botched attempt at “getting ahead of the story” on something that appeared very much to be a controlled demolition, and was in fact, a controlled demolition.

    An apologist for the “official story” could still fit this into their paradigm by explaining that it was done purely for safety reasons though explaining prep time, etc. is a bit trickier

  398. @klokman

    You are a great person, did you know?
    If there would be more like you, this world would be quite a more comfortable place for most and not only for the 1%.
    I hope you have at least the blessing of sleeping deeply and soundly for the rest of your life and enjoy some happiness.
    You are the kind of people who would make America great again, if allowed, and not those pretending to do so, like The Donald and followers.

    Thank you for being there.

  399. wraith67 says:

    As I recall, every soldier in every army in every country has volunteered to kill for his country. Russian soldiers don’t have any more of an Opt-Out option than the American soldiers do. I’ve never met a service member that demanded thanks for their service, this is more of a reaction to the crappy way service members were received after Viet Nam. Lower and middle class people join for the college fund and because 90% of the MOSs lead to guaranteed employment after the military.

    Just war doctrine? Like with the Soviets in Afghanistan? Proportionality in war is idiotic, nobody does that, the ideal ratio for any US/NATO combat action is a minimum 4 – 1 advantage. Usually the only idiots who pull the “proportionality” card are anti Semites whining when Israel crushes some subhuman HAMAS scum and one or two of the women and children the terrorist surrounded himself with as human shields. Maybe the Russians can show us how to wage clean, antiseptic, surgical war with high explosives and fully automatic weapons…oh wait, we already know how the Russians are doing it – Russian bombs kill indiscriminately just like American bombs and Russian white phosphorous is just as cruel as the American version.

    I don’t feel one iota of remorse for the Sunni and Shiite butchers we killed in Iraq, nor for the boy buggerers (who were even worse than the Arabs) we ended in Afghanistan. You had to be a real special kind of turd to wind up in our cross hairs, US service members ought to be thanked for ensuring those guys’ DNA didn’t further pollute the wider gene pool.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  400. @Mulegino1

    All right I will explain it to you.
    First you have to realize that this type of penetration was not like penis penetrating a virgin.
    That type of penetration is yes or no,
    This type of penetration is quite different. although it happened in fraction of second we can visualize what happened,
    (We can forget the corrugates sheets. They practically did not offer any resistance.)
    First we look at the wings because there was all the fuel.located.
    When wings were touching the columns the columns were bent backward into the building.
    So even if columns were slicing the wings (what may not be a necessary a case) the fuel was already transferred to the floor of the building.
    The turbines. made from heavy alloy of chrome nickel steel simply went through anything even through second side of the building.
    Now fuselage,
    The nose of fuselage touching the column probably got warped but because of length of the aircraft the all force resulting from inertia was concentrated on thin perimeter cross section of fuselage with some warping simple did tear through all columns it countered

    • Replies: @Mulegino1
  401. @The scalpel

    I can’t comment on points 1 and 2, but you should know this, the collapse did not have symmetry. First the interior column on the east, then cascading failures moving westward, finally the exterior, part of which folded away from the footprint.

    • Replies: @The Scalpel
  402. @Frederick V. Reed

    it will remain just another empty conspiracy theory.

    You know, here we are, 17 years after the 9/11 event, and, like the JFK assassination, it has spawned a vast literature — probably too much for anybody to read all of it.

    But surely you’ve read some of it, no? Otherwise, you would be engaging in blatant intellectual fraud, as far as I can see…

    So, Mr. Reed, could you summarize what books on 9/11 that you have read? In particular any ones from the “Truther” perspective that you read, could you summarize why you did not find them convincing?

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  403. “nor for the boy buggerers (who were even worse than the Arabs) we ended in Afghanistan”

    Our erstwhile allies in Afghanistan are the boy-buggerers, not the Taliban.

    • Replies: @JLK
  404. @ploni almoni

    My training was forty years ago in the engineering school of a top ten. What you refer to as my training was merely supplemental information about a particular incident.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  405. @Patricus

    That is a complete misrepresentation in what I said. My guess is that you are pathetically trying to justify your past misdeeds in your own mind.

    What I said is that soldiers should not hesitate to disobey orders they find in violation of their sense of right and wrong. Since I explained this very simply to you, you must have understood it. The most likely explanation for your attempts to distort the conversation is your own guilt.

    It is not too late for you to change

  406. @James Speaks

    Your bad is actually that you are still being disingenuous and I feel genuinely sorry for your students. Coat hanger wire, LOL!

    Meanwhile, back in the real world, try making a basket of proportionate size instead by welding strips of coat-hangar wire into a representation of the structures, add bits of cardboard and random dust from your vacuum cleaner and then toss a thimble or an egg cup full of kerosine on it and set it alight to see if the whole thing collapses and get back to me then. Silly models prove nothing and are not needed anyway as even an intuitive awareness of physics should be enough.

    Yes, the conscripted personnel have less culpability although a jail term would be preferable to serving in nam, Afghanistan or Iraq and suffering the guilt for the rest of your life as several have admitted to already in these comments.

    All personnel who served should be demanding the heads (literally) of the liars and tricksters who engineered these evil, immoral and destructive (to all participating nations) conflicts.

    • Troll: James Speaks
    • Replies: @James Speaks
  407. The Scalpel says: • Website
    @Patricus

    Once again, you completely represent my position. You are either stupid, or doing it intentionally. I’m guessing it is the latter. You have a problem with accepting responsibility for your actions. You are like a baby. You want what you want, and then you want to blame your superiors for the consequences.

    You should defend yourself when you feel it is necessary and should refuse orders for aggression when you feel it is not defending yourself. That is very simple. You should not, as you suggest, follow orders from civilian leaders who “we don’t always choose best.” What is so difficult to understand?

    • Replies: @Patricus
  408. @James Speaks

    Is it too late for you to apply for a refund on your “education”?

  409. The Scalpel says: • Website
    @James Speaks

    OK, now you are dissembling. Almost nothing is completely symmetrical, that is obvious. We are talking degrees here. You seem to want to express an astonishing amount of faith in the remote possibility that the initial conditions present in WTC 7 led to the degree of symmetry in the collapse that we witnessed. This translates into some subconscious desire to believes in what the government tells you. I suggest you let the facts and probabilities guide you and not your faith in the veracity of the government.

  410. @James Speaks

    To some extent I agree our young people give up moral development for the privilege of serving. But how much moral development would the same people gain by attending our liberal art major colleges and universities as presently structured?

    • Replies: @The Scalpel
  411. JLK says:
    @fredyetagain aka superhonky

    Our erstwhile allies in Afghanistan are the boy-buggerers, not the Taliban.

    The Taliban shut down opium production just months before the NASDAQ crash and 9/11. We restored it.

  412. @The scalpel

    You’re very, very kind. The main reason I referred Mr Speakeasy to the other 9/11 articles was more to direct the other more reasonable readers there. Ron Unz has mentioned previously that there are far more readers than commenters here so it’s for their benefit not Mr Squeaks.

    Nothing you could ever say to Speaks and his fellow zombie-brained freaks will change anything and they will perform all sorts of mental gymnastics, omitting facts, giving credence to utter nonsense, anything, to maintain the impossible fallacy. A hammer drill would first be required to pierce the calcified scull and sadly, the internet hasn’t developed one for use online, yet.

  413. @Jonathan Revusky

    Greetings JR. Would you kindly re post your website address for me. Thank you.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Revusky
    , @L.K
  414. peterAUS says:
    @wraith67

    Pretty much.

    Except, of course

    …we killed in Iraq…

    with

    ..You had to be a real special kind of turd to wind up in our cross hairs…

    Especially those in period March-May 2003. I mean, if “we” hadn’t killed them they would’ve nuked Europe. Or similar. Powell and Blair said it. Or something like that.

    • Replies: @wraith67
  415. lavoisier says: • Website
    @peterAUS

    Thank you General for letting me know where I stand!

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  416. The Scalpel says: • Website
    @Simply Simon

    “…the privilege of serving…”

    You mean working in restaurant or something like that? or possibly some productive labor that pays taxes that benefits others?”

    surely you can’t mean the welfare kings and queens sucking up tax dollars in the military forces who all taxpayers serve by paying for their salary and benefits

    • Replies: @Simply Simon
  417. peterAUS says:
    @lavoisier

    No prob, Civilian.

    One day, should you feel inclined, you could, with ease, find related material online and get up to speed on the topic.
    Even better, find a (retired) senior field officer, preferably with command combat experience, and speak with the fellow. Say, a guy who was at least a Battalion C.O. in Iraq/Afghanistan.. Plenty of those in USA.
    Failing that a senior NCO. Say….command sergeant major, retired, combat arms, done some time in Iraq/Afghanistan. Plenty of those around too.

    Good luck with your study.

  418. Mulegino1 says:
    @Ilyana_Rozumova

    The scenario you describe is utterly ridiculous.

    The wings would have sheared off upon contact with the steel perimeter columns.

    The nose cone of the aircraft, along with the fuselage, would have been torn to shreds upon impact.

    The turbines would most likely have been smashed and fallen to the street below.

    A commercial Boeing 767 is not similar in any way, shape or form to an armor piercing round- it is essentially a light and hollow, thin skinned aluminum tube whose fuselage and nose cone can be severely damaged by collision with birds in flight.

    Any ballistics test involving 1/4″ by 1/4″ structural steel will show that it takes an armor piercing round to penetrate the steel. An armor piercing bullet has a hardened tip, a full metal jacket and a solid steel core.

    Please explain how the nose and fuselage of a Boeing 767 can be severely damaged by colliding with a bird in flight (you know- feathers, light bones and cartilage) but be impervious to structural steel.

  419. @James Speaks

    The only way you know “what cannot be seen” is if you placed the explosives on the beams in question yourself.

  420. @Mulegino1

    Please explain how the nose and fuselage of a Boeing 767 can be severely damaged by colliding with a bird in flight (you know- feathers, light bones and cartilage) but be impervious to structural steel.

    Stop. Just stop right there and think about what your saying for a moment. I won’t point out the contradiction; it will be better for you to see it for yourself. Just think about it.

    • Replies: @Mulegino1
  421. Mike-SMO says:
    @Wally

    I recall that the Russian pidgeon has been working for “The Man” and has retired to Florida. Call it what you want.

    Maybe he has been paid so well that he doesn’t care about Socialist Security.

    Maybe he was fibbing about the warm beaches of Florida. Maybe he is enjoying the blood-soaked sands of the Crimea. Putin does take care od his own after all, or so the Progs tell us.

    Call it what you want, Saker was bought and paid for. I am sure that some well paid accountant was able to put a nice smooth gloss on it. “Renumeration for Services Rendered”. A/K/A “Traitor”.

    Hey! It’s a job!

  422. fabulous says:

    @430 Mulegino1

    The scenario you describe is utterly ridiculous.

    Of course it is, and that’s the point. Divert & Confuse.

    If you wrestle with a pig, you will get dirty.

  423. @Mulegino1

    Please explain how the nose and fuselage of a Boeing 767 can be severely damaged by colliding with a bird in flight (you know- feathers, light bones and cartilage) but be impervious to structural steel.

    Yours is a stupid argument. Any fool can see that the planes impacted the towers erupted into fireballs. Any fool can see there were fires inside the towers immediately afterwards. Are you so stupid that you think the two are not related?

    No one has said that the planes were impervious to structural steel, or even glass. What we’re trying to get into your paranoid little piece of shit brain is that 300,000 pounds of jet, composed of aluminum, fabric, fuel, biomass, wires, plastics and all sorts of other solid and liquid material, moving at 600 mph, impacted the towers shattered the glass windows.

    Do you understand that glass breaks?

    • Replies: @Mulegino1
  424. @The Scalpel

    What you say is false. Just because I am capable of understanding simpler physics and you are not does not somehow magically make you more wise than I.

    I’ll give you one little tidbit to feed on. The force of gravity acts straight down. Thus, objects that lose their support fall straight down. When a rotted branch falls off a tree, it falls straight down, but this doesn’t mean explosives were used. It means that gravity doesn’t pull the object sideways, only down.

    Got it?

    • Replies: @The scalpel
    , @FB
  425. @Mulegino1

    It’s always struck me that what didn’t happen is often as telling as what did. There were no changes made to safety design standards for steel column buildings upon the revelation of Building Seven that they would collapse if filing cabinets caught fire.

    • Replies: @Mulegino1
    , @James Speaks
  426. vxxc says:

    ты говоришь пизда,

    You don’t know any Vets or their motivations.

    Yes we and the police, etc will say it’s for benefits when talking to people who cannot conceive of acting outside of their own self interest. We’re conditioned in America by our very own Communists in Media and academia to not state our true motives of patriotism or sacrifice for the common good. If you say the common good you’re mocked. It’s just easier to say the benefits.

    By the way in your next report back to Moscow you might observe that Military, police and Veterans are largely and increasingly coming from the same families and clusters of families, a consequence of making service voluntary is it becomes generational. The easiest recruiting prospect is one who’s family is serving or are veterans.

    Of course we don’t tell the truth to Pizda**. Why? It gains nothing.

    Augustine was of course a loser* and Aquinas a delusional fabulist.
    No one cares anymore about intellectuals in the West Dear…no one who would act.

    *Augustine wrung his hands while the Visigoths besieged Hippo. Augustine was pizda. **

    **[pizda = C**T]

    Have a nice day and keep the bags packed…you’re leaving when we’ve had enough of your ilk.

    Cheers !

  427. @Tulip

    “There is no such thing as international law, because there is no law without a sovereign.”

    wow! what a claim! what is this person talking about then? the best is that they see life in the way describe and calls that sovereign, the way life is the way he suggest is the way we must behave..that there is nothing beyond that, prior to that formative..that humans as we are is all.

    this poster would argue that human constitutions come before nature, that beginning with the American constitution, human constitutions shape the world and not nature

    these arguments make no sense at all in the experience of reality. American has imposed an exploitative order on the world. the world fights back..americans to keep its order going. its power to do so wanes. america gets old…its own exploitation eats its power. new powers rise, america will pas into history like all before it and all to come.

    american cant prevent that. that seems a law to me international, universal. humans don’t know anything..born ignorant and must lean nature to survive. all we are is off nature. nature is prior and more basic than we are…

    more than international law there is universal law and we must learn it and be guided by it or cause our own extinction. our extinction ultimately seems assured by the work of universal law regardless of us, whatever we may do…quite beyond us

    and here the organizational principles implied by this poster has guaranteed war and social ruction on earth. there is cause and effect we do not know where it ends. we know some that we ourselves begin and don’t know where it ends..and even what we do, are capable of, appears to be the product of cause that went before.

    it does appear that potential exists to develop an altogether opposite human social reality than what western european derived exploitation has evolved. there is nothing written in stone about that. indeed we now see that the human future is more guaranteed by evolving what is called social systematically getting rid of this capitalism nonsense by which we have hung ourselves out to dry globally, for centuries now

    and I don’t see the saker is wrong. what is the point of an emotional response. it will all sort itself out ultimately, faster and essentially that these are crucial issues we must deal with now. we must sort it out.

    on the line of the Saker I go much further. there is no american war that has not been a manipulation..from the so-called war of independence all the way to these wars we are dealing now and the potential for armageddon. I mean if the american people are unique is their love of war, their agreement with their own manipulation to murder the planet for the profit of few. and this is what this poster and the other one above are attempting to justify.

    and all of this is possible because humanity is a low-life something, cant make something lasting of our opportunity, our coming into being and life. and we fail because of posters like these, people like these who see life as western, christian ignoring their own real scholars like Max and dialectic materialism..which would be a great help to this poster were he to read and understand, carry out his own experiment to prove if its useful or not

    humanity may have a chance to go on indefinitely universally..but we just find that chance and we can do so only in nature, it it exists in nature and we can discover it and use it to go on. that would be making the best of our existence, of our opportunity. as it stands humans are only passing through. and if there is anything that is sovereign and there surely is it is nature itself..that which gave rise to the reality we are and a part of. the laws in there are to be our guide

    the USA as sovereign eh. right! an old fool doddering sovereign about the collapse the planet and end the human opportunity

    but in the end I really don’t know accurately what this poster means but I took my stab at it. he and the other one Dassein is it?… appear to make little sense..part of the foolishness rather than a way out

    • Replies: @Tulip
  428. Mulegino1 says:
    @James Speaks

    No, one cannot see that at all, judging from the so called Hezarkhani footage, which clearly shows an aircraft penetrating WTC 2, maintaining constant velocity and experiencing no “equal and opposite reaction” from a building surrounded by massive steel perimeter columns.

    Glass breaks. Indeed. So does fiberglass, and aluminum gets smashed, especially when it collides with structural steel box columns.

  429. Mulegino1 says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    What contradiction would that be? But perhaps I forgot one factor, namely: “The Bin Laden Transformation”- namely the suspension of basic physical laws, including the Third Law of Motion- was a singularity experienced only in two or three locations on one single date in 2001. Its effectiveness was derived from the fact that Bin Laden and his conspiratorial minions hated us for our freedoms, and George W. Bush was such a uniquely virtuous and moral leader that all of the forces of Djall and his Djinn minions were marshaled to bring about the desired effect of this transformation.

    Everyone knows that the nose cone (being mostly soft fiberglass and aluminum) and fuselage -being essentially a hollow aluminum cylinder- of a commercial Boeing 767 can handle a collision with structural steel and hardened concrete. On the other hand, feathers and avian cartilage, being of a more subtle substance, enjoy the power of impassibility.

  430. No, one cannot see that at all, judging from the so called Hezarkhani footage, which clearly shows an aircraft penetrating WTC 2, maintaining constant velocity and experiencing no “equal and opposite reaction” from a building surrounded by massive steel perimeter columns.

    This is stupid.

    If I drop a ping pong ball onto a granite slab, there is an equal and opposite reaction from the granite slab. Basically, part of it compresses and then rebounds, just as the ping pong ball compresses and rebounds. You cannot see the granite slab compress and rebound because the deformation is minute. But, we know there has to be one. Otherwise, the granite would be infinitely incompressible (zero strain) and according to the laws of mechanics, would shatter because it would experience infinite stress.

    You can hammer on a piece of tempered glass without breaking it. This is because the impulse is too small to create negative (tensile) stress on the surface. Tempered glass is heat treated under restraints such that the skin is in compression and the interior under tension. When you try to bend it, the surface elements are still under compression until you apply so much force that the surface elements reach neutral stress and then tensile. Then, the interior residual stresses cause the sample to explode.

    I said that you can hammer on tempered glass without breaking it. This is true up to a limit. If you hammer hard enough with a sufficiently heavy hammer, then you can create a local zone of tension, and the glass shatters. Alternatively, you can strike tempered glass with a cold chisel point. This will cause it to shatter with much less force. The localized zone of stress reversable (from latent compressive to tensile) is smaller. The explosive shattering is caused by the residual strtesses elsewhere.

    If a piece of tempered glass is restrained on its perimeter, and a high speed jet of water is directed at the center, and the volume of water increased steadily, as some point the reaction in the glass required to stop the water stream will result in a bending moment that causes a localarea of the glass to reverse stress, from residual compressive to tensile. When this happens, the glass will shatter. It is simple physics.

    As I stated previously, a 300,00# water ballon moving at 600 mph would have penetrated the structure due to extremely high local stresses caused by the relatively rigid tower resisting the impulse.

    This basic understanding of mechanics is beyond your reasoning ability.Fortunately, it is within the capabilities of those who must evaluate building failures and upgrade codes as needed. In essence, your vote does not count.

  431. @The Scalpel

    I suggest you let the facts and probabilities guide you and not your faith in the veracity of the government.

    The videos of WTC 7 collapse show a nearly symmetric collapse of the exterior shell. The interior had already collapsed, and this is what created the sound you irrational people think was the sound of a controlled explosion.

    You have a problem with the reality that I trust myself to understand the facts, am capable of doing so, and do not let paranoid conspiracy fools guide me. That I understand what happened and you are incapable of dealing with this phenomena, without resorting to deux ex machina of controlled explosion, must grate you to no end.

  432. @NoseytheDuke

    Your bad is actually that you are still being disingenuous and I feel genuinely sorry for your students. Coat hanger wire, LOL!

    You are too ignorant to understand that university professors use the same analogies as I did, that before computerized matrix analysis of framed structures there would be made steel models of building frames using thin strips of metal to understand the effects of pattern loading on positive and negative peak moments, to develop influence lines if you will, and that the behavior of a 40′ column and a 8″ slender steel rod, axially loaded, are identical.

    You don’t know any of these things, but then again, you are too stupid to wonder why you are too stupid to comprehend.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  433. Mulegino1 says:
    @Bill Jones

    I agree. This ought to have given rise to a virtual Copernican revolution in building engineering and safety standards. Another dog that did not bark.

  434. @Bill Jones

    It’s always struck me that what didn’t happen is often as telling as what did. There were no changes made to safety design standards for steel column buildings upon the revelation of Building Seven that they would collapse if filing cabinets caught fire.

    Here is information you need in order to upgrade your thinking.

    https://www.fireengineering.com/articles/2011/08/9-11-code-changes.html

  435. maingear says:
    @RadicalCenter

    Saker is neither right or wrong. The article expresses nothing more than an opinion, often based on conspiratorial, and sometimes outright inaccurate “facts” geared to inflame.

    Nothing more, nothing less.

  436. wraith67 says:
    @peterAUS

    You missed the wholesale sectarian slaughter between the Shiites and Sunnis, typically a band of one stripe or another would enter a man’s home, rape the wives and daughters, behead them in front of the man. Then torture rape the man before cutting his head off while he was still alive. Then they’d leave all the heads in front of the door. They’d only take time away from this multi-cultural extravaganza to periodically pile into a suicide vehicle borne IED where they could detonate themselves amongst their innocent countrymen trying to ram a gate, or roll up on a convoy. In Afghanistan, the ISIS wing (former Taliban who found out Omar had been dead for years) and the Taliban slaughter entire villages because somebody alleged some villager had cooperated with the US or GIROA or an opposing faction. You can cry for these animals all you want, it just means you’re stupid.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  437. @Mulegino1

    You have a basic knowledge of physics and materials of a preschooler so for me to explain
    something to you is simply impossible.
    So for me to satisfy YOU I am telling you this: IT WAS A MIRACLE FROM HEAVEN.

    • Replies: @Mulegino1
  438. @NoseytheDuke

    Greetings JR. Would you kindly re post your website address for me. Thank you.

    It’s linked where it says Website. It’s https://heresycentral.is/ (It was heresycentral.com until recently and that still works anyway.)

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  439. Tulip says:
    @Ben Sampson

    To have a law, there needs to be an executioner who executes the law.

    There is no true international executioner, or perhaps we should say, in fact there are a number of international executioners, but they are in conflict with one another. The UN is joke, although if the Great Powers agree to stick to someone, the UN can be a useful tool for sticking it to someone.

    For there to be universal law, there would have to be a universal executioner. I do believe in natural law, in the sense that societies that accord with natural law tend to grow and flourish, and those who adopt “unnatural practices and acts” tend to decline and die. But natural law acts at the level of society or nation, not at the level of the individual (which is why modern radical individualism is so dangerous to the host society).

    War could be a factor in natural law, but war tends to be fickle, so you can follow the general principles and still catch a bad break, or ignore them and get lucky because you have a brilliant general or advantageous weather in a battle, or something else random.

  440. I don’t think there has been a war since the Revolution that needed to be fought, and it’s common knowledge that most recruits are now bribed into enlisting. The current wars probably wouldn’t be that popular even I if we were winning, and I’m not sure that most people care enough to know what’s going on, since the military is made up of bribed volunteers and migrant mercenaries. The media doesn’t report, the politicians don’t discuss, and the average civilian citizen has absolutely no voice in any matter. At the moment, Americans are still comfortable, for the most part. Does Saker expect everything to fall apart overnight?

    • Replies: @David In TN
  441. Mulegino1 says:
    @Ilyana_Rozumova

    Explain what, precisely? That hollow aluminum cans effortlessly go through 1/4″ by 1/4″ steel box columns? That fragile, ductile and extremely light weight wings – at their extremities so delicate they cannot bear any more weight than plastic running lights- are going to cut through massive steel core columns and spandrels like a hot knife through butter?

    With respect to 9/11, it appears that you are the one who believes in miracles.

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  442. peterAUS says:
    @wraith67

    …it just means you’re stupid.

    I see. Let’s try once more.

    You missed the wholesale sectarian slaughter between the Shiites and Sunnis…

    That started happening before or after the invasion in 2003?
    Tell us, soldier, why exactly “we” invaded Iraq in 2003?
    Please.

    You are a soldier I feel. Ex, probably. Up to, say, junior NCO, tops.
    Just a feeling.

    The target, most of the time, of Saker types production.

    So….curious, your take on invasion in 2003. The “test”, if you will, of sort.
    Ah, while we are on the topic, what’s your take on bombing on Yugoslavia 1999?
    Let’s finish with Libya. What was the reason for that?

    As for Afghanistan…hehe…why do YOU think “we” are there and will be doing “our” best to stay as stay there as long as “we” can?
    And last, but not least, Syria. Why “our” troops are on the ground there?
    Actually, sorry, not the last. Why “our” guys are in Ukraine?

    When I say “our”, true, it’s mostly US (the main legions), but I just have a feeling that our own auxiliary (as proper vassal) are helping a bit. Mostly those from Campbell Barracks. Whatever.

    Simple questions. I guess. Two sentences, tops, for each answer. Say….ten minutes effort, max.
    Give us some insight, please,how the legionnaires think today.

    Is it just me, but in “my time” the troopers were more….say…..cynical. Before Internet.
    Makes you think. Or …hehe…..not.

  443. Patricus says:
    @The Scalpel

    In addition to being stupid I am also an evil warmonger. While taking scalps and burning villages I expect to be honored for my services.

    • Replies: @The scalpel
  444. @Intelligent Dasein

    You are yet another Roman cultist drunk on pagan power.

  445. @Jonathan Revusky

    Thank you. It looks good and I hope you’ll get some extra visitors from this too. Cheers.

  446. @L.K

    Thank you. Here we are again at yet another 9/11 thread after all despite the fact that this back and forth is deja vu from what is just a click away on this site. It is vital that these idiots/traitors are challenged every time they pop their empty/treacherous heads up though, mainly for those who have never questioned the event because there’s to be very little changing of minds amongst the above mentioned.

    After so much time, I have to think that those who argue so passionately for the impossible, just as with JFK, are either possessing of weak minds who cannot bear to have their little childlike world-view challenged but more than likely they are rats that are becoming jittery because awareness of the direct involvement of America’s “special ally” is slowly but surely growing,

    Sadly, those attacking The Saker here think they are supporting “the troops” and America but lack the understanding that to really support the troops means to keep them safe from needless harm so that they would be available, fit and well equipped to actually defend America rather than being used as worthless meat to run up the tab for the parasitic MIC and the bankers while depleting US military might and treasure.

    The useful idiots are usually among the first to be done away with in the purge that typically follows this kind of struggle having outlived their usefulness.

  447. @James Speaks

    And I’m sure that you make some amazing things using pasta and coat-hanger wire too. Is it possible that you were inspired by Seinfeld’s fusilli man?

  448. peterAUS says:

    Had yesterday an interesting conversation with a, say, rather smart and perceptive younger guy. Never been in service but interested in the topic.

    He asserts that most, almost all, people simply must believe their cause for going to war is morally just. I started the discussion with disagreeing, but, after a while, well…not so sure. So…any of you guys willing to pitch in?

    Aside “progtard” virtue signalling and Saker types doing their psyops thing, is that really true?

    My take is….civilians, in order to support the war effort, yes, they do need to believe in that thing.
    Troops, up to senior NCOs, most likely.

    It looks like that even senior NCOs and senior officers (say, from Major up…) have to believe that thing too.

    My guess, though, is that higher in ranks one goes (or longer service one has, which is usually the same) less of that “moral just” is needed to do the job properly.
    I mean….officers in particular…they do learn about history, GEOPOLITICS and stuff like that. Longer they are in the service and higher up they climb that element, GEOPOLITICS, comes more into their way of thinking.

    I really don’t think that, say, guys from Lt.Col up in US armed forces really believe “we” are in Afghanistan to help those people to …what….become part of modern world?

    Or I am wrong?

    If I am, well….that’s interesting. New generations, probably. I try to blame smart phones and social media.

  449. @The Scalpel

    By “privilege to serve” I was referring to James Speak’s words. In today’s volunteer army it’s a “choice” to serve.’ right or wrong, depending on one’s view of military service. You obviously view it dimly.

    • Replies: @The scalpel
  450. @Rex Little

    This fraud- job government has been arming and abetting the scum of the earth to invade from the only dangerous border that EVER needed protecting , and its been prosecuted against the unrepresented tax-payer subjects for as long as I have been alive!

    Fuck them.

    Scumbag Congress critter Eric Swallow is the Uniparty personified.

  451. I joined the Navy in the 60′s as I was subject to the draft and definitely did not want to go to Vietnam. Didn’t work out, my cousins who volunteered for the draft (3 yrs instead of 4) went to Germany, I got 5 campaign stars on my Vietnam Campaign medal, agent orange exposure, and now multiple myeloma and hearing problems. When someone thanks me for my service I am grateful but warn them that it’s not worth the price. The Saker’s point that all of us joined for the benefits and to kill foreigners totally ignores those who basically had no choice and in any case is only marginally true for the post-Vietnam all-volunteer forces. I am notoriously anti-war and am pretty disgusted in all the automatic worship now attached to all military “heroes” but that’s no reason to attack people who are real victims of cowardly bastards like Bush2 and Cheney.

  452. The scalpel says: • Website
    @James Speaks

    My coomand of “simple physics” is just fine. You do not seem to understand the concepts of initial conditions and relative symmetry very well. It makes me doubt your understanding of physics. That, or you are intentionally confusing the issue for others.

    Let me rephrase myself in much simpler terms that you cannot confuse.

    By “initial conditions” I am referring to the strength, temperature, orientation, etc. of the components of WTC 7 at the moment prior to it’s fall.

    You are attempting to tell me that heat can weaken structural steel thus causing the building to collapse. Theoretically, this is true. You, yourself, stated that the buildings fall appeared to you to be a controlled demolition. In other words, you yourself said that the building’s fall appeared to be quite symmetrical (not absolutely symmetrical).

    You go on to imply, somewhat ignorantly, that this relatively symmetrical collapse is explained by the fact that the force of gravity acts “straight down”. In making such a claim, you completely ignore the factor of the time. This is a glaring stupid mistake. You seem to be saying that everything that falls due to gravity appears to fall at the same time regardless of when the object initiated it’s fall. If I tip over a domino in a row of dominoes, the last domino appears to fall later than the first domino. – much later, it does not appear to the naked eye that all the dominoes fell at the same time.

    The above is also assuming the dominoes are close enough together to cause each other to fall, heavy enough, etc.

    What I am saying to you in layman’s terms that you do not seem to be able to understand is that the probability of whatever heating was caused to the beams of World Trade Center 7 on one end of the building by whatever fire may or may not have existed, muliplied by the probability of the heat propagating throughout the elements of the building in just such a manner to cause the building to appear even to you to fall “like a contolled demolition”, is vanishingly small if not impossible. This, even though theoretically, it is possible to constuct an equation which might allow it. I say “might” because there is no way to know for certain the exact conditions present.

    You are taking this vanishingly small or non-existant possibility and saying that, because it exists, it must be the explanation for the collapse. In so doing, you are ignoring other, much more likely explanations in terms of probability, like, oh let’s say, a controlled demolition which it appeared to be.. Even you admitted this.

    In taking this position, you were saying that because the government said it, something that is extremely unlikely had to happen versus something that is much more likely.

    When I pointed this out to you, you intentionally confused the debate with false claims. I am thinking that you are a troll. A clever troll, but a troll nonetheless. I will not waste anymore time with you.

  453. The scalpel says: • Website
    @Simply Simon

    Sorry for misunderstanding you

  454. The scalpel says: • Website
    @Patricus

    Ok, now we are getting somewhere. How long have you had these issues? How did they start? Were you forced to join the military on threat of death?

  455. @Charles Martel

    Sad to see how people are delusional. Being a part of invading forces and serving interests of corporations and MIC does not equal civic duty.

    • Replies: @Charles Martel
  456. @mike k

    Perfectly said.
    Sadly, some people posting here consider those criminal activities as being civic duties.

  457. @Mulegino1

    OMG you never give up do you?
    And there are no I/4″x1/4″ columns. In my estimation columns at that that height were 6″x4″x1/8″
    But it does not matter.
    …………………………………………………………………………..
    Let me show you an example.
    Let say that you have a cannon with stone ball and in front of you have a brick wall.
    You shoot the ball against the wall. it will make a big hole.
    Now you have a second cannon (special} that can shoot rubber projectiles.
    The projectile will have the same weight as your stone ball.
    You shoot the second cannon.
    To your surprise the holes in brick wall will be totally the same.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  458. @Ilyana_Rozumova

    Apples and oranges and you know it, shame on you.

    Even if a plane were to cut right through the area that was hit it does not begin to explain the subsequent explosions that occurred nor the outward expression of heavy steel beams that travelled hundreds of feet sideways nor the speed of the fall after the explosion without the removal of the structural integrity below or that they continued all the way to the ground. For that to happen, vast amounts of steel throughout the buildings would require being heated to the same high temp at exactly the same time throughout and there certainly wasn’t nearly enough heat. There would have been great lengths of twisted steel too rather than the convenient short section that we saw.

    Have you seen any pictures of pieces of the supposed planes down on the ground taken right after the hits?

    None of your nonsense explains the destruction of WTC7 (or WTC1 @ 2 for that matter)

    Try to behave more like a homo sapien.

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  459. @Renoman

    I became a “soldier” because I got drafted. Even in 1969 $103/month wasn’t exactly big bucks. If we still had the draft, I’m willing to bet we wouldn’t have had Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Syria, etc., etc.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @L.K
  460. Mulegino1 says:

    OMG you never give up do you?
    And there are no I/4″x1/4″ columns. In my estimation columns at that that height were 6″x4″x1/8″
    But it does not matter.

    Wrong. What do you mean by “6″ x 4″ by x1/8″ anyway. By all estimations the perimeter box columns were 1/4″ on all sides.

    No cannon, or cannonball, was involved. A commercial airliner – say a Boeing 767 passenger airliner- is not a solid cannonball but mostly a hollow aluminum cylinder and would not have gone into the building. It would have been shredded to pieces upon impact with the perimeter columns and almost all of its components would have fallen to the street below the point of impact.

  461. peterAUS says:
    @JoaoAlfaiate

    If we still had the draft, I’m willing to bet we wouldn’t have had Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Syria, etc., etc.

    Most likely.
    The concept of “skin in the game” would work as a charm. As with Vietnam.

  462. As a Vietnam-era draftee I remember it well. The War was tearing the country apart. But was it more the war itself or the military draft? I was in the Army when the last boys were drafted in Dec 1972. The war was winding down, but would not officially end until April 1975, with the fall of Saigon and the US defeat. Yet, once the draft ended, the mammoth demonstrations all but vanished.

    So, the Powers-That-Be learned a valuable lesson. If they wanted to wage endless imperial war, they must do it with volunteers. They would pay them what was required until they signed up enough suckers to meet their quota. Poor kids could never have made this much money anywhere else. By and large, these soldiers do not fight for their country, but they DO fight for their buddies, as soldiers always have. They join for the money and benefits, and also sometimes the adventure, but it is doubtful that many do so for reasons of patriotism. They just hope that they make it out alive. They are MERCENARIES, pure and simple. The end of the draft was the Master Stroke of the Empire!

    BTW, I cannot STAND anyone thanking me for my service. The Army sent me to Europe where I had a great year long vacation. I thank the taxpayers.

  463. @NoseytheDuke

    You are ridiculous, In this comment I was only dealing with one totally ignorant unbeliever.
    If you want to address me, read all my comment on the subject.
    I do think that it was my first comment where I did positively scientifically have proven that also towers came down by controlled demolition,

  464. Mulegino1 says:

    You are ridiculous, In this comment I was only dealing with one totally ignorant unbeliever.

    “Unbeliever”? What? You do know the difference between fiduciary faith and empirically derived knowledge, right? By any measure of the matter, to be a believer in the official version of 9/11 is to be a benighted simpleton, and to question the narrative to any extent is to show, at the very least, a glimmer of intellectual curiosity and inquisitiveness.

    • Replies: @JLK
  465. FB says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    ‘The controlled demolition comment. L. Ross is absolutely right about the fact that this alone destroys Saker’s credibility.’

    How the fuck would an obviously illiterate moron like you even begin to comprehend the scientific and technical issues around 911…?

    STFU…

  466. JLK says:
    @Mulegino1

    to be a believer in the official version of 9/11 is to be a benighted simpleton

    Not always. I’ve noticed over the years that some seemingly intelligent people are very susceptible to groupthink and the power of suggestion, while others are prone to think independently.

    • Replies: @Mulegino1
  467. FB says:
    @Tulip

    Your ‘comment’ makes for pretty ugly reading…

    ‘The best defense is to strangle the baby in the crib before it gets too big to pose a threat.’

    ‘Might makes right. Only losers can commit international human rights violations’

    You’re more of a fart than a human…

    Unfortunately there are many scumbags like you…if humans were still surviving by natural selection, useless eaters like you would be weeded out of the genetic pool…

    • Replies: @Tulip
  468. @Melotte 22

    Mr. Melotte, if you are so silly that you believe being anticommunist–and acting on it by joining the service for 4 years–is “serving interests of corporations and MIC” [whatever the hell MIC is] then there isn’t much point in arguing with you. As Proverbs 26:4 says, “Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you yourself will be just like him.”

    That said, I would be mildly interested in knowing what a fool considers to be his civic duty, if anything at all. Sitting on the sidelines and pontificating?

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    , @FB
  469. anon[161] • Disclaimer says:
    @peterAUS

    Shows how, even in this age of instant information, people can be utterly clueless about topics they are keen on discussing.

    this used to be true for me

    lately i find myself commenting less and less and also i don’t find it necessary to have opinions on everything like i used to

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  470. Mulegino1 says:
    @JLK

    You might be correct. Thirst for the kool aid may indeed be augmented exponentially by engaging in groupthink.

  471. @peterAUS

    Some interesting thoughts here. Thank you.

    Very quickly – some stuff I have been considering lately.

    There is a transformation in warfare between the Napoleonic era and the American Civil War and Franco-Prussian War that is bigger than the gradual combined changes for the previous 500 years. Then that transformation is dwarfed by the transformation in terms of numbers and firepower and “Total War” that happens between 1914-18. The tank and airplane and truck, for that matter, were really in their infancy.

    World War II again dwarfs all these previous advances by a magnitude of a hundred. It is true gasoline-mobile total warfare.

    The changes since then have been relatively small. The large wars involving large states have been few. Korea, Vietnam, Chechnya, 1967, 1973, (do we count the Faulklands?), Gulf War I, Gulf War II, Afghanistan, Syria, (I don’t really count Yemen or Libya), oh! and the Iran-Iraq war, Do we count Bosnia and Kosovo?

    There are few common players in all these. The reasons for joining and fighting are going to be different for each individual. In the US it is mostly a job.

    99 percent of American fighting is done with casualty free airpower and virtually casualty-free elite light-infantry and special forces operations. Most casualties are sustained in occupation activities which the US military has every reason to avoid in the future.

    The Special Forces, Rangees, and Marines that I know are all completely dedicated to their job and whatever mission they are assigned. Some of them say the happiest they ever were was in Iraq or Afghanistan.

    I know a guy that was in early special forces, a sniper-scout who para-dropped into Vietnam in like 1965 to do B-52 raid assessment. That guy was into it. The other dozen Vietnam vets not so much. But they are all from South Boston or Dorchester and they volunteered. Another guy who knows all of them loves to tell the story about how he bribed a National Guard officer to keep him out of Vietnam.

    The men and one woman I know (who didn’t go to Iraq) who were just run-of-the-mill Army don’t really talk about it. Everybody has PTSD, except maybe that first guy haha.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  472. @peterAUS

    I’ll bite.

    I have had this “just war” discussion with several millennials (having spawned a few myself) and when I ask them what they mean by a just war, they are, of course, ignorant of Augustine and Aquinas. Products of a late 20th Century education at world class schools, they say something fuzzily PC, such as “Well, you know, like World War II. We had to save the world from the Nazis. I’d enlist for something like that. Or the Civil War. We had to end slavery.”

    These people actually believe their own BS. Despite the fact that something like 90% of the American fighting forces in WWII were draftees and NOT volunteers—not to mention 90% of the forces of all the other belligerents—what exactly was “just” about WWII? My father, who fought in that war in the Pacific, thought the whole thing was about (a) saving the British empire; (b) saving the French empire; and (c) pulling Stalin’s chestnuts out of the fire. He thought that we should have allied with Hitler against Stalin, that Stalin was much worse, besides being essentially an Asiatic no better than the Japanese.

    Of course, once the Japanese had bombed Pearl Harbor, there wasn’t much else we could do other than go to war and kill as many Japanese as we possibly could (and if it weren’t for the A-bomb, I might not be here today, as my infantryman father’s life was surely at stake if we had invaded the Japanese mainland). But that didn’t mean that saving the British and French Empires, and helping Stalin, were in any sense “just.” But when a bunch of people—whether they are Japanese or Commies or Mohammedans or Mexicans—attack, invade or threaten to attack or invade your country, you either fight or surrender. There is no middle ground, and justice has nothing to do with it. It’s do or die.

    When you point these facts out to a millennial, or, for that matter, half of the people blogging here, they blink their eyes in bewilderment. Millennials, as opposed to people blogging here, start talking about the Holocaust. Never mind the fact that Roosevelt didn’t lift a finger to help European Jewry—indeed, he refused to let a shipload of refugees land here; these people actually believe that the war was about stopping the Holocaust. The Holocaust that people actually knew about at the time—Japanese wholesale slaughter of civilians in Nanking and elsewhere—is something that these Millennial nimrods know nothing about.

    And as for the Civil War being about ending slavery—well, it wasn’t really about that, at least not before the Emancipation Proclamation, which, indeed, didn’t free slaves except in conquered territories. True, in his memoirs, Ulysses Grant said the war was about slavery but he also said he didn’t think so at the time and only reached that conclusion after the war.

    I do concur that whether or not a war is just (and about the only one we have had was the Revolution itself), it is important for the people to believe it is just. And there’s nothing quite like victory to prove the justice of the cause. It’s when we lose, or when traitors like Walter Cronkite declare that we have lost, that people carp about the justice of the war.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  473. @Charles Martel

    Oooh! Goody a Q & A, I’ll play…

    MIC means Military Industrial Complex, how very silly of you not to know that. MIC is the very thing President Eisenhower warned about, but I suppose that you would consider him to be a fool too.

    Civic duty means contributing to civil society, as in doing things that are positive and for the wellbeing of your fellow civilians in that society. Mankind has progressed and prospered the most when it has acted in a cooperative and peaceful manner.

    If you’ve heard about the trillions wasted by the Pentagon and the thousands of precious young lives lost fighting needless and senseless foreign wars that have caused Americans to go from being liked and welcomed around the world to being disliked more and more then it would be very difficult to see that as a positive contribution or “service”. In fact you can directly attribute that to the fact that “the greatest nation on Earth” has citizens living in tents, vehicles and cardboard boxes and begging for handouts on the street.

    Sun Tzu warned millennia ago in The Art of War how waging unnecessary wars leads to shortages and general suffering among the people when that happens, as well as the nation itself being put in danger, but it would appear that you are totally ignorant of this.

    You possibly see yourself as a patriot but in fact you are indeed a fool! I would suggest you stick to your Bible and Proverbs, at least they also make those in a form suitable for children with immature minds so I can see why they’d appeal to you.

    • Replies: @FB
    , @Charles_Martel
  474. FB says:
    @Charles Martel

    Let me summarize the little story about yourself you have posted here…you’re some kind of ‘anti-communist’ [for whatever reasons only the koolaid gods would know]…

    …which prompted you to sign up for military duty…where you saw lots of ‘action’ in West Germany..LOL…

    …whereupon returning to the ‘land of the fee’ and the ‘home of the slave’…you felt superior to your ‘liberal’ peers for having carried out your ‘civic duty’…

    …then after that dastardly and horrible ‘terrorist attack’ on 911…you were delighted to see your compatriots again feel the looming ‘threat’ to apple pie and motherhood…this time from the Mohammedans…who in their infinite resourcefulness required only 19 ordinary guys to defeat the entire US air defense system and crash airplanes into prominent buildings…

    Well, Mr Martel…that certainly does sound like a very good and sensible reason to get your panties in a knot…and encourage a new generation of koolaid gulpers to do their civic dooty…

    • LOL: bluedog
    • Replies: @Charles_Martel
  475. peterAUS says:
    @anon

    I hear you.

    Dilemma: fishing after a stroll along a beach or reading/commenting/whatever.

    Have to admit…..this Dem comeback and Brexit mess, among some other things, make the former feeling more beneficial with each passing week.

    And then you have guys like these two above….and back to comments.

  476. FB says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    Yeah…I love that bit with the fucking proverbs…I’ll be sure to look that up right away…LOL…

    The guy is obviously a koolaid gulping retard…no hope for that kind…

  477. @NoseytheDuke

    Well, Mr. Nosey, as patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel, calling people fools and bible thumpers for serving in the military is the last refuge of a troll.

    Affectionately,

    Charlie

    P.S. I don’t remember Eisenhower or anybody else using your acronym, “MIC.” I guess it’s only used by the cool guys on the Unz website

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  478. @FB

    Well, FB, I didn’t really get my panties in a knot with my libtard classmates upon re-entry into civilian life. For starters, I don’t wear panties; do you? And again, I don’t want any “Thank You For Your Service” thrown at me; I consider military service something that able bodied males should do as a matter of course. I don’t feel superior for having performed my duty although I do feel a certain degree of satisfaction. And I never have complained about libtard views toward veterans, but I chanced across Mr. Saker’s screed and thought I might respond.

    As to your mini-screed it would seem that you subscribe to the following propositions:

    –there was never any communist threat to the US–which means, I guess, that the Soviet takeover of eastern Europe, their huge nuclear arsenal, and the Warsaw Pact were mere figments of the imagination or CIA/DOD lies.

    –there is no and hasn’t ever been any Mohammedan threat to the US, or if there is, resistance is futile because they are so much smarter than we are, having figured out how to drive airplanes into buildings. Or are you repeating the even more ridiculous claim that 9/11 was just a CIA show?

    –indeed, there really isn’t ANY threat to the US which we need to deter; it’s all DOD propaganda.

    – anybody who serves in the military when there isn’t a hot war going on must be come kind of coward–compared, no doubt to your brave self.

    Thank you for brightening up my evening; reading your stuff is a hoot.

    Affectionately,

    Charlie.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    , @FB
  479. peterAUS says:
    @Johnny Rico

    Agree.

    Some of them say the happiest they ever were was in Iraq or Afghanistan.

    Yes.
    That’s something civilians, most of the time, simply can’t get. Gave up trying to explain that. Actually, save some really perceptive civilians (I “feel” before, sort of a test), I prefer to avoid talking about the subject altogether. Can’t be bothered. Besides, nothing of value in return.

    Everybody has PTSD, except maybe that first guy haha.

    That’s an interesting topic. I just have a feeling it’s overblown. Especially from people who’ve never been under fire. But, then, modern western military, US in particular, has that teeth/tail ratio of such size that a lot of people in uniform actually aren’t fighters. As you said, it’s a job; they are, actually, employees. They don’t expect to fight. When it happens it’s a surprise.
    Guys like that one (no PTSD of course) are the real soldiers. Minority in modern armed forces. Tiny minority in modern societies.

    You mentioned history, so we can compare the number of real soldiers in, say, Napoleonic wars with today. I’d say that around 90 % of those were of that type, expecting to be fired upon and participating in firing at enemy. Today, haven’t read the latest ratios is, what, around 80/20, if that. Even those firing most of the time use such tech to “detach” them from the act.

    At the other hand,well, societies themselves were much more brutal then, producing hard people in general. Hehe…….look at average man of fighting age today. Plus women in combat arms which is another thing.

    Still, when everything is said and done, US military CAN deliver what TPTBs want, and that’s the bottom line. All those deficiencies the resident Team Russia and haters in general love to talk about don’t matter. The “squeeze” on Russia, since ’89 has been steadily going on. The expansion all over the world …the same.
    The power, the might IS there. Unmatched capability to deliver death and destruction when told to do so. And that’s all what matters, really.

  480. peterAUS says:
    @Charles Martel

    Products of a late 20th Century education at world class schools, they say something fuzzily PC, such as “Well, you know, like World War II. We had to save the world from the Nazis. I’d enlist for something like that. Or the Civil War. We had to end slavery.”

    Yeah. Know the type.

    When you point these facts out to a millennial, or, for that matter, half of the people blogging here, they blink their eyes in bewilderment.

    Hehe….yup.

    I do concur that whether or not a war is just (and about the only one we have had was the Revolution itself), it is important for the people to believe it is just.

    Yes.
    Still, higher up one is in military hierarchy, let alone in society’s pyramid of power, that belief is less and less necessary. People there simply accept the fact that it’s all about power. You can coat it in any way you want but it boils do that. Power.
    And until we somehow change human nature that’s how the world works. The caveat, of course, is M.A.D.

    I’ve come to conclusion that we outsmarted ourselves as species. Developed the means of warfare we can’t control.

    It will take something extraordinary to prevent that exchange, sooner or later.

    And, yes, I do put the blame for that on western elites (yes, yes, it’s actually “Dem Joos”…yes…).

    That missed opportunity when The Wall came down. I remember it. That was the chance. And…hehe…old good greed and lust for power won, as always.

    Here we are, some hoping that Russia will buckle and surrender and Chinese gave up. “Pax Americana”.
    Or, some, as the author and his cohorts that the “Anglo-Zio” empire will collapse under own weight and we’ll have some sort of Oceania, Eurasia and Eastasia in tentative peace.
    Or…don’t know what else, actually.

    One way to find out.

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  481. @Charles_Martel

    I suppose BC and AD are your limit as to acronyms (is it not too dark living under a rock?) and t’was non other than yourself who called Melotte 22 a fool right before you launched into your mythological fantasy mumbo jumbo, talk about irony.

    I’m well aware that you’ll have the last laugh of course, reclining on a cloud, listening to lovely harp music all day surrounded by beautiful women in white, although I’m not sure they’ll be a lot of fun but who knows? I suppose I should start stocking up on aloe vera for my burns too. Pray for me please.

    BTW, a fool is a person who has been fooled and that describes the current crop of “service” people to a T. I didn’t invent the language and I haven’t killed anyone so I’m fine with it. Cheers

  482. @Charles_Martel

    I forgot to add that I did not call you a Bible thumper (shouldn’t Bible be capitalised? (I hate to think of you pissing off the Big Guy) I simply said that you should stick to it, which you likely will so no harm no foul, right?

    The communism stuff is serious though, I agree. You are aware that it was founded with moola from the City of London and Wall St (Rothschild $$$) right? The very same people who are initiating the very conflicts that we are disagreeing about, isn’t that a hoot? I say that they aren’t worth a single American life and you seem to be saying, hell yes, let’s go and kick some ass!

    We’ve both been fooled, Chuck. Not just you and I but the whole damn world, and we will all be damned if we, and especially you and your fellow fantasists, don’t wake up soon and realise that those “serving” are actually serving the dude with the hooves and the horns, they’ve been fooled, as I said.

    My humour is not everybody’s Lapsang souchong I know, but I hope this site will awaken you and that you’ll return to your church or whatever and preach the message of peace to your fellow believers because that is what has to happen if America is to be saved, in the literal sense. Good day Sir and Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours.

  483. @peterAUS

    Good Good Good. Hesitation is good. It is the first baby step that will brig you to reality

  484. Hu Mi Yu says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Note: it might occur to most actually paying attention, that the S. Vietnamese, did not have a stable government before the S. Vietnamese leadership opted to remove their president. Hint: coupes are evidence of instability — but ssssssssssssh . . . don’t tell anyone.

    The Diem government was stable. It was overthrown in a CIA coup as our president JFK confessed on a live TV broadcast a few days later. He said he had approved the coup but not Diem’s assassination. I remember his words to this day “The CIA exceeded my instructions.

    Once we overthrew the Diem government, the government we were there to defend, our cause was lost. This was quickly noted by our adversary Ho Chih Minh in the quote I provided from wikipedia. Diem’s immediate successor was Vice President Nguyen Cao Ky. He only lasted a few weeks until he was quoted saying “Hitler is my hero.” Arguably those who overthrew the Diem government were guilty of giving aid and comfort to the enemy. Note that Ky became president a second time in 1968, and he was removed again after his quote became front page news in the US.

    You don’t seem capable of making up your minds — puppet, stable, unstable ——-

    Am I plural? Part of a conspiracy? I note here for the record that a good many of the deep state actors I have known were methamphetamine addicts who eventually descended into paranoia.

    The S. Vietnamese government was transitioning from a monarchy to something favoring democracy. When it would be stable and secure is anyone’s guess.

    Vietnam could never be stable as long as the US was imposing its fickle whims on the government we installed. We have the same problem in Iraq, and I have heard Germans say the similar things about American occupied Germany.

  485. Tulip says:
    @FB

    Yes, but what is worse? Reality, or the one who speaks truthfully about the nature of reality.

    I envy people like you who can find comfort in illusions. You may be wrong, but you get to pretend to yourself that you are righteous and good.

    On the other hand, the slaughterhouse that is organic life, well, it just is. Amor fati.

    • Replies: @FB
  486. FB says:
    @Charles_Martel

    No…there was never any ‘threat’ from the Soviet Union…it was the other way round…

    Here is a look at the tally of WW2 deaths by country…the Soviet Union lost 27 million people…14 percent of their total population…

    The US lost 400,000 soldiers and 12,000 civilians…less than one third of one percent of their population…a rate nearly 50 TIMES LESS….

    The US has never fought a war in defense of its own country and on its own soil…at least since 1812…

    So Russia had a very good reason to keep Eastern Europe as a buffer zone, especially considering that the US and UK, its supposed ‘allies’ in the war immediately turned hostile and expansionist…ie Korea…later Vietnam…

    Speaking of which, Vietnam was fighting during the war on the allied side against the Japs, on the promise of freedom from colonial France…a promise made by the US…which it promptly broke, like every other promise and treaty the US has ever signed…

    Countries have a right to determine their own form of government…clowns like you know nothing about communism except what’s been inserted into your gullible head by your puppet masters…I had the chance as a young exchange student to experience real life behind the iron curtain and it took me about three days to understand that I was the VICTIM of massive brainwashing…

    Nothing you are told is true, nor has anything to do with the truth…that counts especially for things like 911…but you are neither an engineer, nor a pilot…both of which I am…so on what basis you come to your conclusions only the koolaid gods would know…

    As for the military, it is a fine institution…I have nothing against it…and your assumptions about my own experience are just that… assumptions…

    It is the corrupt political class that uses the military in ways that are not only wrong and immoral, but also hugely destructive to all of humanity…

    In short the US has been a bad actor for many decades…fortunately this is coming to an end as the Ponzi economy built on a foundation of usury is nearing its inevitable crash…the world will be a much better place with the belligerent US assuming its rightful place as an inconsequential backwater…a role that the populace have been exactly trained and indoctrinated for…as outbursts from clowns like you remind…

  487. FB says:
    @James Speaks

    That gravity pulls straight down also means that a three legged chair that has one of its legs collapse, will fall in the direction of that leg…

    You see that is a little more complicated than you are able to grasp…also a tree that is felled will fall to one side, not straight down, since that is impossible…

    It also means a building can only fall straight down if ALL OF ITS SUPPORTS ARE CUT SIMULTANEOUSLY…otherwise it will fall over to one side…

    That’s why physics is best left to physicists, not people like you who have not the first idea how the physical world actually works…

    • Agree: The Scalpel
  488. FB says:
    @Tulip

    No…the world doesn’t work that way…only serial killers work that way…

    • Replies: @Tulip
  489. L.K says:
    @JoaoAlfaiate

    I became a “soldier” because I got drafted. Even in 1969 $103/month wasn’t exactly big bucks. If we still had the draft, I’m willing to bet we wouldn’t have had Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Syria, etc., etc.

    I think you are absolutely correct.
    That’s why the Deep State had to get rid of the largely conscripted military.

    Interestingly though, the new contract military appears more brittle than the conscript forces.

    Those could certainly take a lot more punishment than today’s imperial forces.

  490. @Intelligent Dasein

    The American people need a dose of realism and this guy is giving it. There is nothing noble about the US military or any other military or anything they do, they are the greatest destroyers of everything the world has ever known. Now having said that, we as humans are basically creatures who like to kill, have always killed in the past and always will kill and destroy. We just need to be able to admit that and realize our shortcomings as humans. There is no glory in any war and it doesn’t matter if the US invades countries, or when Britain did it, or when the Romans did it. The end result is always that the little people suffer the most and the old generals get all the credit. I never understood the whole rationale behind honoring veterans but I do see the rationale to speak of how horrible wars are and that we should do everything to avoid wars and negotiate peace until there is no more alternative.

  491. Tulip says:
    @FB

    No…the world doesn’t work that way…only serial killers work that way…

    . . . and Kings and Queens and Presidents and Fuhrers and Premiers and every political leader since the first Mesopotamian City-State.

    I read Obama used to sit around with staff on Tuesdays to come up with a list of civilians to off with drone strikes:

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/01/obama-drones-strikes-civilian-deaths

    And he won the Nobel Peace Prize and will parrot the same nonsense about International Law as Saker if asked.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @FB
  492. @OilcanFloyd

    Did anyone tell Hitler and the Japanese WW II “didn’t have to be fought?”

  493. @Hu Mi Yu

    Ohhh no . . . more

    Laughing

    My position is very clear. Nothing in your comments changes a single context. Coupes are not generally associated with “stable” governments. opponents oft refer to the government of Vietnam as a puppet of the US.

    Neither coupes are puppet governments are evidence of stable government.

    Your own contentions beat the notion silly.

    My comments are in relation to the exchange by two commenters as noted in the box. Leave it to the uninformed when pressed to make the issue about personality. good grief.

    ROFL . . . wait your claim that we installed a government is to cause for instability. But you just claimed initially that the Pres. Diem’s government was stable —

    As I noted make your mind, but you can’t because the contentions are false as indicated by your own convoluted arguments.

    1. we installed
    installed is unstable
    conclusion: Pres Diem’s gov. was unstable
    contradicted your earlier claims of stability.

    2. puppet
    puppets unable to for their own bidding – unstable
    conclusion: Pres Diem’s gov was unstable
    contradicted your earlier claims of stability

    3. stable before the assassination
    supporting arguments, evidence, analysis none
    But as you have already indicated installed government unstable
    Pres Diem’s government was unstable

    I think we agree that the fledgling government in transition from monarchy, from colonialism to democracy was in a shaky state.

    You liberals sure are funny.

    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein
  494. @EliteCommInc.

    Coupes are not generally associated with “stable” governments.

    Who much prefer limousines.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  495. peterAUS says:
    @Tulip

    My father’s no different than any other powerful man. Any man who’s responsible for other people. Like a senator or a president.

    You know how naïve you sound?

    Why?

    Senators and presidents don’t have men killed….

    Oh, who’s being naïve, Kay?

  496. FB says:
    @Tulip

    Look…no righteous person can agree with a philosophy of aggression and conquest…

    You are trying to defend that as being somehow ‘natural’…that is not so…all empires and all conquerors have ended badly…that is the reality…those who live by the sword, die by the sword…

    Your bullshit is unfortunately the delusion and sickness of many, if not most Americans…for the last 500 years the world has suffered as a result of imperialism and conquest…

    The Chinese 600 years ago had a fleet that literally dwarfed anything Europe could muster…under Admiral Zheng He…but they chose not to invade and conquer…they sailed to Africa in friendship, not to acquire slaves or gold or booty…

    So your idiotic theory about people being ruled by greed and even murderous impulses is bullshit…

    Today the Chinese are the most populous people on earth and have the biggest economy already…in future years, their economy will literally dwarf the rest of the world…especially the the imperialist west, which is in precipitous decline…directly as a result of its Machiavellian philosophy of conquest and plunder…

    Idiots like you cannot understand that it is human nature to coexist, not to subjugate by means of violence…the earliest human impulse was to band together…the notion of aggression was always present of course…but humans have always had very firm ideas about justice in such matters…if another tribe sought to come over the hill and take your land and drive you off, then you knew that this was wrong…all laws on conduct among different peoples stems from that basic first principle…

    It is like first principles in physical science…idiots like you try to turn this concept of morality and rightness on its head…but it doesn’t work that way…the aggressor is often defeated…this happens all the time…it happened when the Russians beat back the Nazis in WW2 and basically crushed German aspirations for power for all time…

    It happened again in Korea, where the North Koreans beat back the imperialist forces…and again in Vietnam, where again the US suffered defeat as a would be conqueror…

    So there is nothing to your half baked ideas…they are wrong and have been proved wrong countless times…every conquering army has ultimately failed…that was true of the Huns and the Mongols and long before that as well…when humans where just small groups of hunter gatherers…

    Your bullshit version of human nature and human history is a distortion and an ugly fiction that belligerent anti-human elements in society choose to embrace…it is an ideology that must be stamped out…

    Our children must learn the real truth about human nature…it is not perfect, but it is one where defense is justified…but offense leads to destruction…as history has shown, most empires have been destroyed…

  497. @FB

    Firs instinct of human being is jalousie. That will never change.

  498. @Hu Mi Yu

    Note:

    Getting back in the ring to box a non-existed US presence is not an indication that that the US lost.
    It’s a reminder of what Ho Chi Minh had predicted , if the US enters the conflict we cannot win —

    They didn’t.

    The war they engaged was a second war based on one simple fact, that with the aid of the North Koreans, Chinese, and Soviets they started a second war confident that the US would/ return. And as they every single agreement establishing peace broke the peace by violating the agreement and their oath that n o attempts would be made by violence to reunite the two countries.

    S. Vietnam like all fledgling governments under siege need support.

  499. Giuseppe says:

    I am surprised about the vicious discussion and over 500 comments in the comment section to this benign article by the Saker. To people who are interested in seeing the big picture and understanding reality, the Saker has said nothing here that is remarkable or even controversial; he is merely stating facts.

    It seems to me that a lot of the commenters are violently opposed to anyone offering a glimpse into a worldview that clashes with their own fantasy visions of what life might be, where America is always a great and good country that comes to the aid of the underdog and never tires of dealing fairly and justly with the good and the bad.

    So why should we thank veterans? We shouldn’t. It’s become just another meaningless obligatory social nicety, and fits in the same category as wearing a flag lapel (of whatever country) or not being the first to stop clapping for a North Korean leader. It’s a meaningless gesture that isn’t even done for the sake of the vets, it’s just another piece in the vast propagandizing of the military industrial complex, the war machine. And I doubt the veterans even want to be thanked, it’s demeaning and pointless.

    Some of us would like to live in a normal country, but our country has been hijacked my militarist psychos for decades intent on blowing up the world. Too bad for us.

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  500. @FB

    No, stupid. The North Koreans started the war by invading South Korea. They were the ones beaten back until the Red Chinese invited themselves into the war. The Chinese tried to drive the UN forces out of South Korea in the Spring of 1951. THEY were beaten back and the line stayed the same for the next two years until the war ended.

    • Replies: @FB
    , @SHAFAR NULLIFIDIAN
  501. @FB

    Wishing you a Happy Thanksgiving FB, it was always my favourite holiday when in the US.

    Any thoughts on the veracity of the following article? Cheers

    https://au.finance.yahoo.com/news/f-35-stealth-fighter-just-043945657.html

    • Replies: @FB
  502. FB says:
    @David In TN

    Not quite dimwit…there is much that your koolaid version of ‘history’ leaves out…

    For instance, there is the total defeat of the United States Eighth Army, at the hands of the Chinese…

    ‘The defeat of the U.S. Eighth Army resulted in the longest retreat of any U.S. military unit in history…The Chinese offensive continued pressing U.S. forces, which lost Seoul, the South Korean capital. Eighth Army’s morale and esprit de corps hit rock bottom, to where it was widely regarded as a broken, defeated rabble…’

    Reorganized under General Ridgway the Eighth did come back and eventually both sides agreed to a stalemate at the 39′th parallel…

    But in the meantime, the US resorted to its tried and true tactic…aerial bombardment of civilians…as in the bombing of Germany and Japan in WW2…

    The bombing was long, leisurely and merciless, even by the assessment of America’s own leaders.

    “Over a period of three years or so, we killed off — what — 20 percent of the population,” Air Force Gen. Curtis LeMay, head of the Strategic Air Command during the Korean War, told the Office of Air Force History in 1984.

    Dean Rusk, a supporter of the war and later secretary of state, said the United States bombed “everything that moved in North Korea, every brick standing on top of another.”

    After running low on urban targets, U.S. bombers destroyed hydroelectric and irrigation dams in the later stages of the war, flooding farmland and destroying crops.

    Overall, it most certainly was a US war of conquest…the US had no business being in Korea at all…it’s true that the North did launch the initial invasion [despite Stalin's objections]…but this action could be considered pre-emptive, as it was no secret that the US goal was to capture the north as well…

    • Replies: @David In TN
  503. @Giuseppe

    Your silly quescion:+
    So why should we thank veterans?
    We have to worship them. Otherwise this precious species would die out, and become extinct.

  504. FB says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    Thanks, Nosey…all the best to you and yours too…

    As regards that article about the F35…it’s just more rah rah noise from the peanut gallery…typical MSM fluff designed to pull the wool over the sheeple’s eyes…

    I will say that a formation takeoff of 35 aircraft is a nice day’s work and not something that you will often see…so hats off to the pilots participating in that one…

    Other than that the real story of the F35 is that it is just now ENTERING the initial operational test and evaluation process [IOT & E]…

    In fact, the start of this TEST PHASE had been put on hold by the Pentagon’s director of operational test and evaluation [DOTE] Robert Behler a couple of months ago…you can read the actual document here…

    Now finally the F35s appear to be cleared to start the test process, which is normally 11 months but they are going to try to do it in 9 because of that last minute glitch…

    Your own media reported just last week on this, in a much more realistic way…

    ‘Doctored results. False progress reports. The Pentagon isn’t happy with the trillion-dollar F-35 project. Now Australia’s future fighter is about to undergo a crucial test.’

    The report referenced in that article is here…

    And the JSFPO [joint strike fighter program office] document highlighting the issues and how they intend to address them [or not] is here…

    So it’s hard to take the cheer leading from Business Insider seriously…in fact it is just MSM bullshit, as usual…

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  505. @Hu Mi Yu

    correction: confident that US would not return

  506. @FB

    Thank you. It is sobering indeed considering the clear uncertainty of abilities at a late point where such vast amounts have been expended thus far with little in the way of a plan B. Russia seems to have pursued a strategy of developing alternatives which allow the cream to rise to the top. Few people are less technically aware than I am but it also comes down to what is referred to a common sense, better described as good sense. Cheers

  507. FKA Max says: • Website
    @JR

    Investigation: Khan Sheikhoun

    https://tcij.org/logan-symposium-2018/videos/

    On 4 April 2017 the release of toxic chemicals killed scores of people in the Northern Syrian city of Khan Sheikhoun. The OPCW attributed the deaths to the Syrian Air Force. Two investigative experts bring very different tools try to shed light on what happened that day, followed by a conversation between them.

    Featuring:

    Theodore Postol Professor Emeritus of Science, Technology and National Security Policy, MIT.

    Eliot Higgins Founder, Bellingcat.

    Moderated by James Harkin Director, The Centre for Investigative Journalism.

    Footage shot on 20 October 2018 at The Centre for Investigative Journalism’s Logan Symposium: Conspiracy at Goldsmiths, University of London.

  508. jgarbo says:

    Outrageous! Will this person be permitted to tell the truth with impunity? As I watch from my balcony at the enchanted castle in Disneyland, they weep – Mickey, Daffy, little Peter and Tinkerbell, – even Donnie Duck. American democracy can stand just much truth before it collapses into an imperialist monster. Think of the children (in Yemen, at least).

  509. explorer says:

    Millions of Veterans were drafted. They had no choice. They fought honorably for their country. They fought for each others’ survival. They were not paid mercenaries. They were great men and women who sacrificed for their belief in their country. God bless them and I will thank them.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  510. peterAUS says:
    @explorer

    Millions of Veterans were drafted. They had no choice.

    That’s not entirely correct. Simple universal principle. There is always choice.

    By the same token, being drafted would nullify any moral culpability of any member of military throughout ages.
    I mean….hehe….plenty of people you’d classify as war criminals and genocidal robbers, rapists and murderers were drafted.
    On this very site ….haha…that would exonerate most of IDF of their treatment of Palestinians. Imagine that. Crackup, a?

    There is choice, always. The problem is the reaction of an organized state. Loss of job, short or long prison sentence or sometimes even worse (penal units etc.).
    Which points to another conversation about morality etc. It can be a fascinating subject. The problem with such a topic is, on sites like this, 90 % of people spouting their opinions have never been “there” and have agendas on top of it. Getting the truth is’t a prirority, even interest.

    I know for fact (or so I say) that long discussions about the topic are popular in military. From simple talk of troopers to quoting philosophers in higher staffs.
    My experience (or so I say) is, at the bottom, it almost always gets to Cain and Abel (to keep it simple here). Something like that.

    Sorry for interlude, guys. Feel free to go back to bashing “Anglo-Zionist” thing.

    • Replies: @explorer
  511. anon[341] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mario964

    The Milgram Experiment was the usual un-replicatable social psychological BS that was promoted to support an agenda. Nazi=Badthink=Authoritarian CultMarx BS. Wasn’t winning WW 2 enough?

    https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0098628316677644

  512. explorer says:
    @peterAUS

    By the same token, being drafted would nullify any moral culpability of any member of military throughout ages.
    I mean….hehe….plenty of people you’d classify as war criminals and genocidal robbers, rapists and murderers were drafted.

    hey Pete, I was trying to show that Veterans were not paid mercenaries. Of course they had a
    choice, not much of one. I also don’t believe that being drafted gives you license to
    commit war crimes (I know, who decides what a war crime is?). Being drafted is not
    excuse for that. “veterans are killers hired for money” no their not!
    thanks Pete

    • Replies: @Kiza
  513. PraedorPr says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    I served 20 yrs and am proud of my service and those i served with. Yes, i did it for patriotic reasons and financial. That out of the way, I initially supported the first Iraq war but, after the fact, came to oppose it. I did not support the 2nd Iraq war, clearly seeing it as bogus ((informed by what i learned from the 1st war). I initially supported the Afghanistan war, believing the 9/11 narrative, but then questioning both the 9/11 story and the role of Afghanistan in it. Thing is, most people DO believe the stories used to drive these wars, and more recently, the arguments against Assad in Syria as part of attempts to get us into war in Syria. The vast bulk of soldiers do serve with honor and patriotismm. They believe the “intel” they are provided to justify their fighting. Even when they question it, they are duty bound to follow legal orders AND cannot be absolutely sure their doubts are real – the official story MIGHT be right and they are not privy to all the details. Thus, even in a dishonorable or false war, they serve honorably and, usually, actually believe they are protecting their country and its people. At the very least they believe they are helping fight for liberty and justice FOR other deserving peoples. The Vietnam war was a bogus, unjustified mess based on lies yet the vast majority of soldiers were honorable, patriotic, and deserve respect. It is not their fault they were ill-used by leadership and politicians. They actually believed the backstory and thus believed they were doing the right thing. They dod not deserve vilification and disrespect, but the leadership did and does (I mean the true architects of all the bogus wars: politicians and top Pentagon brass who ACTUALLY know about the lies. So, I DO thank my compatriots for their service. Their hearts were true, as was their intent.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @NoseytheDuke
  514. SergeantH says:

    It’s true from my history and perspective. I joined the Army National Guard in 1989 because I could not afford college otherwise, and they offered to repay student loans. Had I been deployed to the first Gulf War (and it was indeed a risk), I would have been a mercenary in a war of aggression as described above, thrown into a situation where it would have been “slaughter or be charged with dereliction of duty”. I do not thank other veterans for their service, and it makes me uncomfortable to be thanked for mine.

  515. peterAUS says:
    @PraedorPr

    Good post.
    Especially this:

    Even when they question it, they are duty bound to follow legal orders AND cannot be absolutely sure their doubts are real – the official story MIGHT be right and they are not privy to all the details.

    but, then, when you…..ahm….”debate” the issue with those who haven’t spent one day in service, let alone never been in combat no wonder they can’t get it (save very rare exceptions).

    On top of it, those, most of the time, have their agendas. They are’t interested in understanding your point of view; all they care is pushing, through you and and into you, that agenda.
    Saker and the resident “Team Russia”.
    “Progtards”.
    Mohammedans.
    Chinese and Indian nationalists.
    Say……80 % posting here, perhaps even more.

    Hehe..add a couple of proper Neocons and Zionists and…..a feisty “discussion” about the topic pops up every now and then.
    New related article to come soon and we’ll see the same again.

  516. Your 2015 piece needs a follow up.
    Seems you pegged it.

    http://www.unz.com/tsaker/europe-in-free-fall/

  517. @PraedorPr

    It is simply mind bending that you think it possible that one can serve honourably in a dishonourable or fraudulent war. It’s more possible that you have your hat on backwards and inside out, and even more likely that your head is not on straight.

    Your “proud service” means that you put your shoulder to the very wheel that has been grinding down the United States, or at least the part of it involving the wellbeing of the nation. With “patriots” like you the nation is doomed and you even admit to being influenced by the money, pittance that it is. How very sad!

    Had you served in the defence of the US you would have my wholehearted support but as it is, my sympathies are with your victims rather than the service personnel who return damaged and neglected by the government that they “served” in cruel and needless wars of aggression.

  518. Janko says:

    Right on the banksters money,even Zionist Kissinger told the truth about USA soldiers,most of you here know it,Janko

  519. Douglas says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    Targeting the people themselves will not be tolerated at large by the public. Target the advertisers for the military. They are the ones who helped mislead me.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  520. @FB

    “Reorganized under General Ridgeway the Eighth did come back and eventually both sides agreed to a stalemate at the 39′th parallel…”

    The Eighth retook Seoul (permanently) and drove the Chinese back to the 38th, not the 39th parallel. And as previously mentioned, cleaned their clock when they launched an offensive to drive the US out of Korea in Spring 1951.

    “But in the meantime, the US resorted to its tried and true tactic…aerial bombardment of civilians..as in the bombing of Germany and Japan in WW2…”

    So Germany and Japan never bombed anybody? Who started the war?

    “…it’s true that the North did launch the initial invasion (despite Stalin’s objections)…but this action could be considered pre-emptive, as it was no secret that the US goal was to capture the north as well…”

    So you admit who started the war. What objection by Stalin? Who do you think provided the North Koreans with T-34 tanks, tactical doctrine and training, and all their equipment? And you agree with the North’s “pre-emptive” war? You sound like a neocon justifying the Iraq invasion.

    Thank you for proving your stupidity.

    • Replies: @FB
  521. FB says:
    @David In TN

    No…it’s your ignorance that’s on display here turdnugget…the koolaid you love to gulp may be sugary and satisfying…but has nothing to do with historical facts…

    Stalin had agreed to come to the aid of the US and enter the war in Japan within 90 days of Germany’s surrender…The Red Army crushed the Japanese in China’s Manchuria in August 1945…which was the main reason the Japs surrendered unconditionally…having lost Manchuria they had no hope for raw materials to continue the war effort…that is the historical consensus…the US terror bombing of civilian cities with atomic weapons was not necessary after the Soviets entered the war and the Japs had said so…that is the historical record…

    In return for the Soviets pushing out Japan from China…the US agreed to basically split up Korea and keep the peace… [incidentally...one wonders how long it would have taken the US to kick the Japs out of Manchuria, and at what cost,had they had to do so themselves...the Red Army general staff couldn't figure out how the US had so much trouble with the fairly weak Jap land forces in drawn out battles like Midway and Iwo Jima...]

    In any case Stalin did as he promised, but of course the US went back on every word it ever gave…as it has done consistently throughout its history…starting with the Indians…

    That is the backstory to the Korea Issue…it was the Red Army that liberated the north from the Japs and the US rushed in quickly to prevent a unified Korea in the Soviet sphere of influence…and then started aggressive actions against the north from day one…

    As for the specifics of the start of the war…the Soviet archives detail very well what went on from about 1949…

    ‘Until the end of 1949 Stalin did not plan any aggression against South Korea. Instead he was worried about an attack from the South, and he did everything to avoid provoking Washington and Seoul.

    In 1947-1948 Soviet leaders still believed in the possibility of a unification of Korea, and refused to sign a separate friendship and cooperation treaty with North Korean leader Kim II Sung.

    In the beginning of 1949 the Soviet embassy began to alert the Kremlin to the growing number of violations of the 38th parallel by South Korean police and armed force.

    Receiving Kim II Sung in the Kremlin on 5 March 194, Stalin showed an open concern about growing pressure from the opponent in the vicinity of the 38th parallel and emphatically told Kim “The 38th parallel must be peaceful. It is very important.”

    After Kim’s return to North Korea, the situation did not improve. On 17 April 1949, Stalin informed his ambassador of an imminent attack from the South. The Soviet ambassador confirmed that a large-scale war was being prepared by Seoul with the help of Americans and raised alarm about the inability of North Korean troops to withstand the aggression.

    2. Kim insists on war. Stalin disagrees.

    While Stalin tried to prevent a war in Korea in 1949, the North Korean leadership increasingly put pressure on the Kremlin, demanding permission to liberate the South.

    On 7 March 1949, while talking to Stalin in Moscow, Kim II Sung said: “We believe that the situation makes it necessary and possible to liberate the whole country through military means.” The Soviet leader disagreed, citing the military weakness of the North, the USSR-USA agreement on the 38th parallel and the possibility of American intervention.’

    So that agreement was being violated and undermined by Washington…just as today Washington insists on acting belligerently towards Russia, and increasingly to China…nothing new there…

    That’s about all the time I have for an illiterate turdnugget for today…go back to your trailer…get washed up, read some actual history and try to keep from choking on your own beer farts…

  522. @Douglas

    It was a mistake for me to use the word targeted, I had assumed that readers would understand what followed, KINDLY, but I didn’t allow for you. Perhaps I should have written, selected in order to influence them against throwing their lives away in senseless military campaigns.

    Advertisers for the military? ABC, NBC, CBS? The ad agencies? Recruitment centres in shopping malls using video games as a lure? I can’t understand what you mean there, it’s too vague. If you were mislead it was at least partly due to you not paying attention or thinking things through. Had more like you done so, the US would have found these adventures more difficult to undertake and would still be a strong nation, well liked and respected around the world as it was once.

  523. Anonymous[381] • Disclaimer says:

    I don’t think Saker knows America.

    People often do join the armed forces for patriotic reasons.

    We love our country.

  524. @Anonymous

    Obviously you’ve never heard the term, blind patriotism. The Saker is trying to point out to you that much of this so called “service” actually served those who would harm your country instead.

  525. headrick says:
    @Anonymous

    Lets get the scene straight. American family- uncles and father fought overseas, tell their war stories in the evening after dinner. Message- a man does his time as a soldier. Son reaches 18- Girls also are saturated with this message. Family goes to VFW for fish fry or to special taverns with lots of veterans. Are you in the club, or are you some sorry coward weenie? Girls get that message too. You fight for your country, or you are not in the clan, the brotherhood of “real men”, the club. So this is the soul of patriotism. Not defense of anything, or promoting some abstract American ideal or even remaking the world. It is a tribal thing. The media parrots “thank you for your service”. Church has the American flag up there too. Are you a man or not? Afraid? Run off to Canada with the hippies?

    This little tableau can be recast in any country format. Russia- particularly now with the resurgence of Orthodox where you get blessed before going into combat. War is not profane- it is a service to God and Country.
    Examine the scene from “We were soldiers” with Mel Gibson. The chapel part, the explanation to the young daughter.

    Stand back a few feet, and examine the spectacle of opposing soldiers going into battle. RE Mark Twain and the war prayer. In your heart, review the profane mess and reject it, even if only to yourself. A nation can have a lot to be proud of other than military victories and war. Examine the great collective national joy at the insight mars landing. Pride without malice. Go for that.

  526. Kiza says:
    @explorer

    What a giga-cretin you are! You piece of shit managed to exceed Unintelligent Desein.

  527. Anonymous[346] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    I don’t think Saker knows America.

    People often do join the armed forces for patriotic reasons.

    We love our country.

    Then we should allow these patriotic young people (many of the recruits nowadays are non-U.S. citizens) to join the “all-volunteer” U.S. military as true volunteers. Not pay them salary/benefits higher than the civilian world for equivalent education and skills. Not pay them an above average salary relative to their skills and education and then give them extra pay for deployments.

  528. I was drafted in 1968. So, I know all about Involuntary Servitude. Actually, I soon realized that I was not a slave because slaves possess some economic value, while conscripts are totally expendable, just like Irish indentured servants. I listened to a speech by our Brigade Commander over in Vietnam, where he told us that he was sending us out to the Cambodian Border, and was going to use my unit for “bait”. He was sending us out on a suicide mission, but fortunately our CO was a West Pointer, and adopted some innovative tactics that kept us from being wiped out. All the line companies in my battalion were badly mauled out there, but we made it back unscathed.

    So, when somebody thanks me for my service, I just tell them that I was drafted and didn’t have any choice in the matter. I usually get a weird look in reply.

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