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So What Is the Real Deal with Iran?
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I have to begin this column with a mea culpa: I have been predicting a US attack on Iran since at least 2007 and so far, I have been completely wrong. The attack never happened. What I did get right, at least I hope so, are the reasons why this attack has failed to materialize, at least so far. In purely military terms, an attack on Iran could not succeed because Iran had too many asymmetrical counter-attack options. But the real reason behind the failure of a US attack on Iran are buried in a mountain of myths surrounding the Iranian nuclear issue. What I propose to do today is to take a look at the biggest one of these myths.

The Myth: Iran was working on a military nuclear program

This, of course, is the main myth, the cornerstone of all the other nonsense written about Iran. The resilience of this myth is based on a simple factor – it is impossible to prove a negative. Just as Iraq could not prove that it had no WMD, Iran cannot prove that it does not have a military nuclear program. The US intelligence community showed a rather amazing level of courage when in spite of the immense Neocon pressure to endorse this myth it concluded in the 2007 NIE that Iran had had a nuclear program in the past, but stopped working on it. Still, common sense provides us with what I would call “overwhelming circumstantial evidence” that Iran has no intentions to develop a nuclear weapon.

For one thing, actually developing a nuclear weapon would not allow Iran to use it, least of all against Israel. Besides the actual nuke, a nuclear weapons capability implies having all of the following:

  1. The possibility to test the nuclear weapon (untested it is useless)
  2. A delivery system (missile, aircraft)
  3. The ability to protect the nuclear weapon and the delivery system from a preemptive disarming attack
  4. Most importantly – a warfighting strategy, a military doctrine on how to use such a capability.

The fact is that Iran could not test a nuke without the rest of the planet knowing about it. Iran does not have a reliable and survivable delivery system and, most importantly, Iran cannot hope to use a nuclear weapon against the USA or Israel without suffering a devastating retaliatory strike. Keep in mind that if the Israel military does not have the means to significantly hurt Iran with conventional weapons, it most definitely does have the means to do so with the large and sophisticated Israeli nuclear capability. In other words, to use nukes for Iran would be suicidal.

Supporters of the Iranian nuclear weapons myth often point out at the DPRK as the “proof” that nukes can protect against Uncle Sam. The problem is that these people overlook a crucial difference: the capital of South Korea – Seoul – is within artillery range of the DPRK’s military and the DPRK has a huge conventional military which, while aging and relatively unsophisticated, can inflict terrible damage on South Korea and the US forces deployed there. According to Wikipedia, the DPRK has 9,495,000 active, reserve, and paramilitary personnel (including 180,000 special forces) making it the largest military organization on Earth. And this forces is literally within walking distance to Seoul! In contrast, Iran has absolutely no power projection capabilities which would make it possible to attack Israel.

When cornered with logical arguments, the supporters of the Iranian military nuclear program myth with fall back on the over-used cliché about “Muslims being fanatics”, willing to “die for Allah” and all the rest of the Islam-bashing idiocy fed by the corporate media. The problem with that is that there is exactly zero evidence showing the putative “insanity” of the Iranian leaders (no, Ahmadinejad never said that Iran would wipe Israel off the map). In fact, considering that since 1979 the USA has done everything imaginable to overthrow the Islamic Republic or, at least, creating a pretext to attack it, I would argue that the Iranians are extremely sophisticated and highly intelligent people. The way Iran used the US Neocons to get the USA to attack Iraq (the worst enemy of Iran) instead of Iran is nothing short of brilliant. No, the Iranians are not crazy at all, they know that having a nuclear weapon would do nothing to protect Iran and they know that they could never use it without facing the end of the Islamic Republic. Besides, those who believe that Muslims are somehow prone to suicidal insanity did not propose to bomb Pakistan when it acquired the first “Islamic bomb” – so why is Iran singled out?

The reality: Iran is a civilizational threat to the Hegemony of the USA, to Israel and to the KSA

This is the real reason for all the tensions, sabre-rattling and hysteria: Iran represents a huge political, social, economic, religious and even civilizational threat to the USA, Israel and the Saudis. Unlike the obscurantist and totalitarian Saudi regime, the Islamic Republic is a democracy, albeit an Islamic one, which is socially progressive and which has achieved tremendous economic, scientific and social successes in extremely hard circumstances ranging from US economic and political sanctions to an devastating seven year long war against Iraq (which was fully backed and armed to the teeth by the USA, the Soviet Union and France). Oh sure, Iran is hardly a perfect society, but compared to the rest of the Middle-East it is truly a heaven on earth. The fact that Iran could achieve this in open and total defiance of both the USA and Israel is absolutely unacceptable for the AngloZionist Empire. That alone is a reason to want to do to Iran what was recently done to Libya and Syria. As for the Saudis, not only does their medieval Wahabi kingdom look outright barbaric when compared to Iran, they also have a seizable Shia minority living almost exactly where the largest Saudi oil fields are. In fact, by some irony of fate, if you look at a map of the KSA or Iraq you will see that the Shias almost always live right over the richest oil fields in the region. Finally, Iran is a natural ally of the Alawi regime in Syria and, especially, of Hezbollah in Lebanon.

One aspect of the successes of the Islamic Republic is that Iran was, and still is, working on a civilian nuclear program. First, Iran has always needed an alternative source of energy and this is why, as early as in the 1950s, the USA provided Iran with civilian nuclear technologies under the Atoms for Peace program. Second, Iran is also engaged in nuclear research, including nuclear medicine, and having a civilian nuclear research program is an immense source of prestige. But even more importantly, the Iranian nuclear program has become a symbol of sovereignty. Uncle Sam says “no, you cannot” and Iran replies “yes we can, and we will”. This is the real “crime” Iran is truly guilty of: defying the AngloZionist hegemony over the Middle-East.

There could be many reasons why the USA has signed on on this P5+1 deal with Iran. They range from simple “imperial fatigue” to a desire by Obama to have something to show for his (otherwise absolutely catastrophic) Presidency. It could also be the case that the US security establishment simply made the (correct) call and concluded that the USA cannot afford to have a war with Iran. Whatever may be the case, the fact that this deal was inked at all is an extremely good, if provisional, outcome.

Potentially, Iran could play a crucial and highly beneficial role in the Middle-East, first and foremost, as the only country capable of seriously taking on Daesh (aka IS/ISIS) and stabilizing Iraq. True, as long as the US continues to support al-Qaeda in Syria, the horrors will continue. In fact, some particularly devious CIA analyst might argue that empowering Iran might make the overthrow of Syrian regime less dangerous because even if Damascus falls to al-Qaeda Iran would have the power to contain it. Whatever may be the case, currently only Iran and Hezbollah are preventing Daesh from overrunning the rest of the region. Thus I would not put it past the CIA & Co. to ease the pressure on Iran, even temporarily, to “squeeze” a Daesh clearly run amok (helping both sides in a conflict is a time-honored Anglo tradition).

Here I will return to my opening mea culpa. I have been predicting a US attack on Iran for years and instead of an attack we now have a Joint Comprehensive Action Plan between the Iran and the P5+1. I will gladly admit that I am as delighted as I am skeptical about this. I am delighted because if the deal holds, it would actually make sense and defuses a needlessly dangerous situation. But I am also very, very skeptical. When I look at the hysterical reaction of the Israel Lobby in the USA I have a hard time imagining this deal being upheld by the USA. After all, if the Neocons do not currently have full control of the White House, they do most definitely control Congress and the US corporate media. And the fact that most US Jews do, in reality, support the deal with Iran will not stop them. As I have said it many times, Zionism is not an ethnicity, it is an ideology, and American Jews have no more influence over the 1%er regime in power than American non-Jews. As for the 1%ers – they are loyal only to themselves. So will the Ziocrazies succeed in derailing the deal with Iran? I honestly don’t know, but I have to confess that I am not an optimist by nature.

 
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  1. Kiza says:

    My personal view is that AIPAC will have to blow the bugle of retreat in the short term, but the Iran agreement will not survive in the medium run, no matter who takes over from Obama. If Hillibillary wins, the chances of the agreement surviving are even lower than average.

    The Neocon-Zionist strategy is relatively simple: desecularization of all near-abroad countries to make Israel the only “shining-beacon on the hill”. Iran is currently the biggest “threat” of all, because in your words: “Iran is hardly a prefect society, but compared to the rest of the Middle-East it is truly a heaven on earth.” The more potentially economically and socially successful another country could be, the more of a threat to Israel.

    To put in in another way, only the societal basket cases such as Saudi Arabia can be tolerated in the Israel’s neighborhood, everyone else is a threat.

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
  2. Realist says:

    “I have to begin this column with a mea culpa: I have been predicting a US attack on Iran since at least 2007 and so far, I have been completely wrong. ”

    That will probably change if a Republican is elected President.

    Or even perhaps Hillary.

  3. In 2003 my comprehensively sceptical position was that no one had a greater motive for wanting people to believe in WMDs in Iraq than Saddam Hussein. I think that was right and I wonder if there is not an element of the same motivation in Iran’s policies and posturings. In Iran’s case the posturing or ambiguity could be almost entirely for complex domestic purposes that we can’t be sure of because even the Iranian leadership is juggling a number of unknowns.

    • Replies: @5371
  4. Sean says:

    Potentially, Iran could play a crucial and highly beneficial role in the Middle-East, first and foremost, as the only country capable of seriously taking on Daesh (aka IS/ISIS) and stabilizing Iraq.

    A stable state of war in all countries of the ME is what is required, until they break up for good and form little fueding statelets (as Iraq is well on the way to doing). It’s not the CIA & Co, it’s Team B risen from the grave (Pipes’s father was on team B). Iran was told by Republican Senator Tom Cotton of Arkansas that any nuclear deal with the US could easily be wiped out: Huckabee’s ovens’ remark shows just how easy it will be.

    Right now there is a chance to destroy Iran the last remaining threat (ie the last force giving the Palestinians hope). That chance will never come again and you can bet that heaven and earth will be moved to take advantage of the opportunity.

  5. From the information I have been able to glean about Iran and admittedly my understanding is imperfect, Iran it seems has a very young and well educated population and given the opportunity to flourish, which the lifting of economic sanctions will do, I would imagine they will make major contributions in many fields. In the zero sum game mentality which exists among the sociopaths called zionists, this a threat of major proportions to them. This is the real threat, there isn’t a nuclear one.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  6. alexander says:

    Dear Mr Saker,

    Thanks for your thoughts on the ” Iran deal”,

    Certainly a very real tension at the core of the debate, one that is decidedly hidden from the public view..revolves around the capacity for the United States to retain its solvency were we to engage in another multi trillion dollar war of aggression in the middle east…the implications to our balance sheet, our credit worthiness, our currency and the global appeal of our treasury bonds, would be seriously jeopardized were another war(of choice) to push our National debt over the 20 trillion mark….

    As it stands today, the multiple wars of aggression at the behest of Israel, has drained us to the breaking point….there is no plan to resolve the current 18 trillion dollar debt of which 12 trillion has been accumulated within the last 13 years ….let alone a plan to pay down a 22 trillion dollar one !

    The second issue at stake is the United States’ standing in the world. Our capacity to resolve issues (like this one) without resorting to violent aggression restores our diminished reputation among the other world powers as a “rational actor”…Especially after the Iraq fiasco and the fraud in which it was coerced.

    There is no doubt our name and reputation on the world stage and our ‘credit worthiness” go hand in hand ….

    Perhaps all the “brouhaha” over the Iran deal serves as a distraction away from the profound failure of the administration to extract a just resolution to the Israel /Palestine conflict in its attempted implementation of the two state solution.!

    A success there would have all but eliminated the need for a protracted stand off on Iran, and its phony nuclear bomb scare.

    What worries most of us who have taken the time to educate ourselves on the dynamics of the conflict(s)…Is the realization of the level of belligerent fascism growing out of Israel, its complete rejection of the two state solution, its Nazi like supremacism, militarism, zeal for conquest, land grabbing (lebensraum) and eagerness to exterminate the Palestinians is really quite shocking.

    Certainly the last thing one would expect from the children of the Holocaust is a desire to holocaust the children of Palestine.

    Yet “washing away the Seed of Amalek” permanently, seems to be a rallying cry among many in the religious and political classes…

    have we really come to this ?

    To think that we actually have ..Mr Saker…is really quite disturbing !

  7. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Because of it’s size, location and increased level of human development it’s logical that Iran aspires to join the club of developed countries. It’s also inevitable, for the same reasons, that it’ll be the dominant regional power sometime in the future so everyone will have to deal with them in one way or another, willingly or not. After all, they were great allies of ours under the Shah and we couldn’t sell them enough armaments to suit them or us. That changed in the twinkling of an eye. How long this theocracy will last can’t be known but it would seem the original revolutionary fervor will sputter out at some point. It’s noted that a military attack upon Iran doesn’t seem to hold much promise, pointing out an unfortunate truism about the international order which is that the weak are set upon by the strong like so many predators. Fact is, the Iranians aren’t going away and can’t be bottled up forever so therefore have to be dealt with in some rational manner.

  8. 5371 says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    As usual from you, this is a profoundly idiotic comment. If you want some possibility to work as a deterrent, you may not admit its reality, but like Israel, you certainly never deny it.

  9. I think this article covers much-trodden ground and states what most thinking people believe today.

    Once the cost and failure of the Iraqi and Afghan adventures was obvious it became extremely unlikely that the US would launch an attack on Iran – the only possible one being from the air.

    Being in all appearances a weak, indecisive man, Obama took the easiest way out and reached this accord: also, had he not done so, his international partners would have lost patience with the US because Iran has been so accommodating in the negotiations. The sanctions would have collapsed.

    I personally have always predicted that Israel would never dare attack Iran because of its abhorrence of the losses which would surely result from Iran’s retaliatory missile strikes. I might add, however, that if ever Israel did bomb Iran – and Iran struck back causing significant Israeli casualties – the likely response from Israel would be nuclear.

  10. Rurik says:
    @alexander

    Nazi like supremacism, militarism, zeal for conquest, land grabbing (lebensraum) and eagerness to exterminate the Palestinians is really quite shocking.


    “Our race is the Master Race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves.”

    I used to read stuff like this and wave it away as silly nonsense, until eventually I had the difficult epiphany of realizing that there really are people who actually believe this crap!

    Anyways, that’s why the situation is so darn intractable. How do you reason with a people who start out by demanding that you exist as their God given slave?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iajb2tLDNBE

    this guy is not kidding!

  11. Biff says:

    Iran stands firmly in the way of Israel’s “Clean Break”. I have no doubt the zionists see the Iraq war as a great success, having it atomized and broken up so it can no longer stand on it’s own two legs, or stand up to the whims of TelAviv. The biggest problem with Iran is it can stand up, and that is what is plainly in-tollerable. The neocons want it atomized like Iraq – unable to organize itself into a regional power, and as time goes by the window of opportunity is fading away for two reasons – neocons fading grip on power, and Iran’s asymmetric advancements. That’s why we get tag lines from neocon Michael Leeden Faster Please.

    We can only hope the neocons will be kept in check while they die off.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  12. alexander says:
    @Rurik

    Rurik,

    I have to say its pretty scary…..Having cut my eye teeth on the profound evils of Nazi Supremacism and the scourge its totalitarian ideology eventually became to world civilization…This does not look good !

    I do not know how to post a link……but if you google “David Sheen, Russell Tribunal” his twenty minute synopsis on the run up to the “Gaza war(?)” is also a real eye-opener !

    Its worth a moment..if you have the time and the interest!

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  13. Realist says:

    “The possibility to test the nuclear weapon (untested it is useless)”

    So Israel’s nukes are useless?

  14. joe webb says:

    The sacker is off on another madcap hate mongering of the US/Israel Power, which would be ok if he did not hanker after any port in the storm of his particular obsession.

    Iran’s national IQ, per Richard Lynn is 84 (Iraq’s is 87 ). The pipsqueak power of these dipshit Arab/Persian Democracies is close to zero.

    Folks should get a solid grip on , for example , the per capita GDP of these aforesaid “countries.”

    The US per capita GDP is almost $50K/year.

    The sacker is a liberal democrat, who refuses HBD, racial IQ, and everything racial really. Race does not exist for him; he loves MLK and probably Obongo as well.

    All that said, we have been better off with Obongo as opposed to the Judaized GOP which would have had us at war again with the A-rabs, Persians and whoever stands in our way, like Russia.

    The saker is really a kind of crypto communist. World Peace is his mantra….a somewhat unrealistic expectation, but his trumpeting of said communist slogan, makes for good propaganda.
    ________

    A realistic approach to world relative peace, is to settle for small wars fought over land and resources and nationalisms, as opposed to Big Ideas of a secular or religious nature.

    The sacker is another One Worlder. No sacrifice is too great, to achieve a Universal Humanity.
    He is the moral equivalent of the fake John Bomb Bomb McCAin, only from the Left, not the neocon Right.

    Joe Webb

  15. joe webb says:

    all the tearing of hair about White Supremacism is great stuff!

    Fact is we whites are more or less the master race, having invented everything both technical, humane, and fun (like extreme sports).

    However nobody that I know of wants to rule over the wretched. We want not Supremacism, but Separationism. Get out of my sight, our jails, our welfare systems, our schools, our neighborhoods, etc.

    Go in Peace, but go.

    The fanatic Anti-Racistism is a religious movement probably incited by the profound changes going on both economically and demographically.

    The Strangers are moving in next to us, and it appears inevitable. What is an altruistic White person to do? Think…is what they do, and lose the name of Action. Think Good Thoughts about the Savages. If one does not do that, one risks job, family, ostracism, etc. from the people (whites ) who dreamed-up all this anti-racist non-sense in the first place. This of course is not really fact based thinking. It’s socially determined determination not to be excluded from the herd…a HBD fact that we acknowledge as very powerful.

    Where can one go if ostracized by fellow Whites? To the Jews?…they don’t want us. To the wretched?….they will rape , kill and bleed us. To the chinks? Ha.

    The Liberals and the lib-rads on this list, they are terrified…the rock and the hard place. No other race treats its own people to ostracism because of refusal of the liberal race equality mantras. All other races are profoundly racialist….and therefore obeying their natures. Only White liberals freak out over their racialist impulses, and try to ascend to Rainbow Heaven , and a promotion of course.

    So, right here in River City Unz Review, the liberals wring their hands over White Supremacism! and the Jews laugh, and the Others as well….laugh. Liberal Whites are contemptible, especially men, as they have succumbed to the Female Principle…not really a principle for that would involve intellectuality…but the Female emotional swamp. Pussies in other words, who are capable only of purring and shrieking if scorned..

    Joe Webb

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  16. @alexander

    Dear Alexander,

    Allow this paragraph to penetrate your psyche:

    [MORE]

    the Islamic Republic is a democracy, albeit an Islamic one, which is socially progressive and which has achieved tremendous economic, scientific and social successes in extremely hard circumstances ranging from US economic and political sanctions to an devastating seven year long war against Iraq (which was fully backed and armed to the teeth by the USA, the Soviet Union and France). Oh sure, Iran is hardly a perfect society, but compared to the rest of the Middle-East it is truly a heaven on earth. The fact that Iran could achieve this in open and total defiance of both the USA and Israel is absolutely unacceptable for the AngloZionist Empire.

    Now, with Benjamin Netanyahu and William Kristol thundering in your ears “Iran is Germany!” “Ahmadinejad is Hitler!” time-warp backward and read it again (slightly modified):

    Nazi Germany is a democracy, albeit a unique one, which is socially progressive and which has achieved tremendous economic, scientific and social successes in extremely hard circumstances ranging from Jewish-imposed economic and political sanctions to a devastating war in which several million Germans died and, more significantly, 800,000 German civilians starved to death, the result of a blockade (which was fully backed and armed to the teeth by the USA, drawn into the fight by zionists in exchange for the grant of Palestine to Jews). Oh sure, Nazi Germany was hardly a perfect society, but compared to the Weimar chaos and degradation that preceded it it is truly a heaven on earth. The fact that Germany could achieve this in open and total defiance of both the USA and feotal Israel is absolutely unacceptable for the AngloZionist Empire.

    [MORE]

    Now examine your statement, Alexander, in light of that new understanding —

    What worries most of us who have taken the time to educate ourselves on the dynamics of the conflict(s)…Is the realization of the level of belligerent fascism growing out of Israel, its complete rejection of the two state solution,
    its Nazi like
    (a) supremacism,
    (b) militarism,
    (c) zeal for conquest,
    (d) land grabbing (lebensraum) and
    (e) eagerness to exterminate the Palestinians is really quite shocking.

    Assess these statements point-by-point:

    1. The use of the term fascism is inappropriate: Fascism, accurately understood, was a national movement conceived by Benito Mussolini to unify and modernize an already-existing but fragmented and disordered nation. The Israel project is not fascism, it is zionism, and zionism is sui generis; its own, distinct, form of evil. Israel never really “rejected” the two-state solution, it was a lie and a charade from the very inception of the zionist project.

    2. The notions that Nazism was a supremacist ideology is propaganda. Read Hitler’s speeches: he instilled in the German people a communal and unifying pride in their own culture and societal values; this pride and cultural unity was not dependent on derogation of the Other.

    Similarly, Nazism was not marked by militarism; that’s propaganda. Logically assessed, it doesn’t pass the smell-test.

    Hitler, Goring and the NSDAP spent the first six years of their 12-year tenure revitalizing the domestic economy — building housing for workers; creating social welfare programs; building the autobahn; manufacturing a car for the common man, the Volkswagen; establishing cultural venues where the common man could enjoy art and music; revitalizing the education system to the point that Germans made scientific and technological leaps that have not been duplicated (but only imitated) in history; creating opportunities for workers to travel abroad; hosting the Olympic games — all of these built after first dragging the economy out of desperate hyperinflation and political and economic chaos. The secret to Nazi success to the extent that it existed is its base on cultural and social unity and cohesion, not on militaristic values and over-investment.
    (As I’m typing this I’m listening to Michael O’Hanlon (a neocon tool) at a Brookings event discussing “new technologies for the US,” with special emphasis on 3-D printing. The emphasis is on how new technologies can be used to develop weapons systems, flying systems for “defense” capabilities, and the like. US cities, highways and infrastructure are failing and the populace is underemployed, but the focus of Brookings and “new technology” is on weapons systems. That is militarism. Germany under NSDAP was not militaristic.)

    (c) zeal for conquest: cooly assessed, such does not characterize Nazism. It is true that Charles Lindbergh was invited to Germany to tour German aircraft design and development facilities, and carried back to the USA tales of a highly developed capability. It’s plausible that was a situation of double-propaganda: Lindbergh made the visit with the endorsement of US military planners who sought a means to persuade Congress to invest in US air development. For its part, Germany was interested to inflate its capabilities. In fact, as Maj. Gen. Gerd Schultze-Rhonhof reported —

    Germany’s neighbors fielded militaries that outnumbered Germany by as much as 95-to-one, not the statistics that engender fear of an aggressive, hyper militarized neighbor. In contrast, Israel, the tiniest entity in the ME, is the only nuclear weapons power in the region and outspends and out-fights its neighbors by an factor that is almost incalculable.

    But don’t take my word for the Nazi’s intentions: Herbert Hoover toured Europe in 1938 and spent an hour talking with Hitler and Goring. He came away with the conviction — which he shared with diplomats from England, France, etc. — that NSDAP was committed to three idées fixes:

    – to unify Germany from its fragmentation by the Treaty of Versailles;
    – to expand its physical resources by moving into Russia or the Balkan States;
    – to destroy the Russian Communist government.
    (source: “Freedom Betrayed: Herbert Hoover’s Secret History of the Second World War and Its Aftermath,” edited by George H. Nash. )

    To the extent possible NSDAP sought to achieve the first goal nonviolently, and largely succeeded. The Munich Agreement that William Kristol brayed about was part of that goal, and it was achieved non-violently. Hitler and his team exerted extended efforts, and offered generous terms, to resolve the Danzig conflict non-violently but as Patrick Buchanan has detailed in The Unnecessary War, Churchill (and FDR and zionist Jews) had a different agenda; they wanted war.

    Regarding the second idée, the quest to expand territory — first off, this is not the same as “zeal for conquest” much less “world conquest,” another favorite meme of the anti-German propagandists. Hoover tried valiantly and repeatedly to get FDR to realize that Germany had no aggressive intentions toward the West.

    Second, Germany’s quest for “lebensraum” is directly related to the starvation suffered by German citizens as a result of the Allied blockade of Germany in World War I (see The Politics of Hunger: The Allied Blockade of Germany, 1915-1919. By C. Paul Vincent. )

    General Plan East is frequently cited to prove that Hitler planned to kill or enslave 10- 20- 50-million Slavs. I have not studied this issue thoroughly enough to form an opinion. A cursory reading of the linked doc suggests that GPO was the equivalent of a “think-tank” or academic thought experiment.

    The third goal, to destroy Russian Communism — Germany shared that passion with Woodrow Wilson, FDR, and the British: most of the West — everybody except zionists, many of whom had infiltrated US government, such as Henry Morgenthau, Jr., Harry Dexter White, Louis Brandeis, etc., feared Communist/Bolshevik aggression.

    As to the final point, (e) eagerness to exterminate the Palestinians Jews:

    The world — at least that part of the world that is not MSM-addled — is watching as Israeli Jews carry out in real-time a plan to acquire the territory of the Palestinian people but to remove by one means or another the Palestinian people from it. It’s not an appropriate parallel to argue that Nazis did the same thing with respect to Jews.

    Here’s a foundational fact: Hitler and the NSDAP were Germans, the German government, in Germany, crafting laws and policies to benefit the German people in German lands.

    By definition, zionists intended to, sought to, plotted to, fought to take the land of other peoples and to impose Jewish-zionist values and policies over that land and those people.

    That’s one. crucial. difference. between Nazism and zionism.

    Second, yes, Nazis did seek to remove Jews from Germany, and yes, Hitler did make speeches that blamed Jews for great harms that had befallen Germany. Was Hitler lying or was there a basis in fact for those beliefs? Incidentally, those beliefs were widespread among the German people and not somehow transmitted to them through Hitler’s speeches or Nazi policies; quite the opposite: popular resentment of Jews in Germany had frequently erupted in violence against Jews during the Weimar years. Scholars have observed that while Hitler did use rhetoric to play upon those popular resentments to gain power, upon acquiring power, Hitler stopped using such rhetoric, and the Nazi government quickly imposed measures to stop violence against Jews in Germany.

    As to the truth-value of Hitler’s rhetoric: the full context of the situation — the Jewish declaration of economic war on Germany foremost — suggests that there was a basis in fact for Hitler’s belief and statements that Jewish financiers sought to harm Germany. Edwin Black’s descriptions in “The Transfer Agreement” of the plotting behind the Jewish war on Germany confirm, without a doubt, the validity of Hitler’s assertions.

    Regarding acts that Jews called “antisemitic” and “persecution of Jews” in Germany in the 1933 – 1941 period, Germany’s ambassador to the US Hans Luther explained them succinctly here:

    Prejudice against the Jews, he said, was due to their tendency toward movements of a communistic nature, and to the fact that nearly fifty percent of the government officials have been Jews, although the total Jewish population was only one percent. He denied emphatically that there had been any “atrocities”.

    He asserted that limitation of Jewish influence in Germany was being conducted with the greatest possible consideration toward the old native Jewish families who, he said; had proven themselves good Germans and indicated that it was directed against the Eastern European Jews who had overflooded the country since the War.

    Luther’s description of the misery of German students who had to wait for years after graduating in order to obtain positions in the professions may remind some readers of the current immigration debates waged on this forum.

    With more rationality but far less bombast than Donald Trump, Luther explained that

    After the War, came the influx of East European Jews . . . Because of Germany’s political prostration, there was no means of excluding undesirable immigrants such as other nations had.

    Regarding popular outbreaks of antisemitic actions in the post-war period, Luther explained that

    elements which had a leading role in Marxist stories contributed greatly to the embitterment of the people

    (Readers may be interested in “Rabbi Feinberg’s Reply to Luther’s ‘Propaganda’ ” in a subsequent JTA item.)

    Alexander wrote:

    Certainly the last thing one would expect from the children of the Holocaust is a desire to holocaust the children of Palestine.

    But it’s the first thing one would expect from zionists inasmuch as the foundation of the zionist ideology called for the ‘holocaust of the children of palestine’, which does and must call into question the holocaust narrative.

    Creation of the zionist ideology pre-dated a supposed holocaust by at least 65 years — two or three generations– and acts toward acquiring control over Palestine and dispossessing Arabs, specifically, the Balfour declaration, pre-dated the alleged holocaust by at least a quarter-century.

    Chronologically, rationally, logically, the alleged holocaust of Jews had very little to do with the foundation and declaration of a Jewish State of Israel in 1948.

    On the other hand, the holocaust of the German people was a direct and intended outcome of the zionist creation of the Jewish state of Israel.

    (side note: Lady Michele Renouf was instrumental in the Forgotten British Heroes Campaign and letter to the Israel Embassy in London. )

    Therefore, objection must be raised to Alexander’s statement that “Certainly the last thing one would expect from the children of the Holocaust is a desire to holocaust the children of Palestine.”

    We have to stop reinforcing this lie.
    Yes, the narrative of a holocaust of jewish people by Nazis is a lie.

    I’m not a ‘holocaust denier;’ I don’t quibble around the margins of the holocaust propaganda; to do so would be to give it credence as a fact that has minor distortions. That is not the case.

    The narrative of a holocaust of Jewish people is a bald-faced lie, just as the narrative of Nazis using Jews to make soap and lampshades is a baldfaced lie, and just as the narrative that “there were no Arabs in Palestine” is a bald-faced lie.(see We were lied to! – Dana Karon @ about 43 min

    The Jewish holocaust narrative is a bald-faced lie that the Jewish people as well as Anglos — Americans and British — must sustain to shield themselves from accountability for the crimes against humanity they committed

    ~ in the deliberate provocation of a war with Germany;

    ~ in the sustained firebombing of German and Japanese cities — for the first time in modern history, deliberately targeting civilians in an attempt to bring about the capitulation of a government (which is, if you think about it, precisely what the US is doing in imposing sanctions on Iran and what US did in sanctioning Iraq, where a million people died, half of them children, “a price that was worth it” )

    ~ and in the crimes against humanity ( the Morgenthau plan and ethnic cleansing carried out against some 15 million German people who, to this day, have not been able to return to the homes that had been theirs for centuries.

    If “[those] of us who have taken the time to educate ourselves on the dynamics of the conflict keep validating and reinforcing the Jewish holocaust narrative, how can we ever expect the Jewish people to come to their senses and stop killing Palestinians and threatening other sovereign people? It is not a psychologically sustainable paradigm; the lie must be confronted. There was no Nazi holocaust of Jews; Jews are not carrying out a holocaust of Palestinians out of some weird “pre-traumatic stress disorder” or fear of victimization; Jews are carrying out a holocaust of the Palestinian people out of the inexorable plan of the zionist ideology, which is evil. The wickedness of zionism is inherent in the zionist ideology.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  17. something strange happened in the long long long post earlier —

    this section should appear before “Assess these statements point by point”

    Now examine your statement, Alexander, in light of that new understanding —

    What worries most of us who have taken the time to educate ourselves on the dynamics of the conflict(s)…Is the realization of the level of belligerent fascism growing out of Israel, its complete rejection of the two state solution,
    its Nazi like
    (a) supremacism,
    (b) militarism,
    (c) zeal for conquest,
    (d) land grabbing (lebensraum) and
    (e) eagerness to exterminate the Palestinians is really quite shocking.

    • Replies: @alexander
  18. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Rurik

    “I used to read stuff like this and wave it away as silly nonsense, until eventually I had the difficult epiphany of realizing that there really are people who actually believe this crap!”

    This the same evil crap which racist sc$m like joe webb, and other white supremacists believe in. Right joe webb?

  19. @Biff

    We can only hope the neocons will be kept in check while they die off.

    Wonder what the average IQ and average ‘GDP’ of neocons tallies. No doubt they bet the crap out of the pipsqueak power of these dipshit Arab/Persian Democracies.

    As proof that Joe Webb’s analytical brilliance is fully in line with current US foreign policy under “Obongo,” and that elevated numbers on a scale devised by the neoconishly-inclined win the day, witness that the neocons are still alive and kicking, still consulted and appearing on the TV sets of USAians who, by the way, have a per capita GDP of $50k. Fifty big ones! Think of it! And the neocons are surely heavy lifters in that per capita calc. No doubt about it. Hell, Bill Kristol hisself prolly takes down seven figures a year. He could prolly buy any dozen IRGC pip-squeaks.

    But what have the neocons contributed to society?

    If all of the genius of the neocons were agglomerated into one brain, would it have made the world a better place?

    A larger question is how stupid must be the $50K American public that they allow those traitorous bastards to live free in a country that they would willingly betray, rather than lynch them from the nearest government-issue lamppost?

    Why should the people of the USA “contain” traitors?

    Machiavelli was exiled and tortured.
    Cicero was dismembered.
    At least the British people had the good sense not to re-elect Churchill.

    • Replies: @joe webb
  20. @joe webb

    So, right here in River City Unz Review, the liberals wring their hands over White Supremacism! and the Jews laugh, and the Others as well….laugh. Liberal Whites are contemptible, especially men, as they have succumbed to the Female Principle…not really a principle for that would involve intellectuality…but the Female emotional swamp. Pussies in other words, who are capable only of purring and shrieking if scorned..

    Joe Webb just naturally brought to mind St. Augustine of Hippo. Father, make that major Doctor of the Church and source for much of Roman Catholic philosophy that shaped Europe.

    Jews pretty much hate Augustine.

    Augustine was a Black man. His mother was Berber, his father a no-account, iirc. Monica, Augustine’s mother, was a real smother-mother, but it appears she did a lot more guide and shape Augustine’s career than his invisible papa did. Pussie riot.

    Didn’t Jews join up with Moors — pretty much the same as Berbers — and travel to the Iberian peninsula and establish Andalusia, developing Moorish culture (apparently with some Jewish contributions, so why it’s not called Jewish culture but it is called the Jewish Golden Age is either unclear or hugely informative).

    Thank the lordie lordie Black men have long coattails.

    • Replies: @Horzabky
    , @Pacific
  21. Hepp says:

    Unlike the obscurantist and totalitarian Saudi regime, the Islamic Republic is a democracy, albeit an Islamic one, which is socially progressive and which has achieved tremendous economic, scientific and social successes in extremely hard circumstances ranging from US economic and political sanctions to an devastating seven year long war against Iraq (which was fully backed and armed to the teeth by the USA, the Soviet Union and France).

    Er, one of my first signs of a civilized country is when the government doesn’t lead marches where they chant “Death to X,” regardless of what “X” is.

  22. @Hepp

    Er, one of my first signs of a civilized country is when the government doesn’t lead marches where they chant “Death to X,” regardless of what “X” is.

    Absolutely agree.

    Israeli bulldozer kills American peace activist Rachel Corrie

    No doubt about it.

    American art-student Emily Henochowitz shot in face by IDF tear gas, loses eye

    Shouting “death to X” for any given X is definitely uncivilized

    One would think that a state that purports to be civilized could control its citizens

    Roman Catholic churches in Israel vandalized ahead of Pope’s visit

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/third-suspect-charged-in-miracle-church-arson/

    Of course, when it’s the state itself that is behaving aggressively, what’s a mere citizen to do?

    Israel committed war crimes in 2014 attack on Gaza

  23. @Hepp

    Well, yeah. In a real Civilized Country, say the USofA, we do that via the TV, and the New York Times, and long-winded yet ultimately blood-thirsty recommendations of Think Tanks. For instance, Death To Syria, Death to Russia, Death to China, and even Death to Iran. All, of course, led from behind – at a discreet, plausibly deniable distance – by Our Government.

    Street demonstrations are just so déclassé. Don’t you agree? Our hatred is ever so much more polished, because we’re a Civilized Country, eh?

    • Replies: @Hepp
  24. Hepp says:
    @JerseyJeffersonian

    Yes, pretty much. I’d rather take the guy who feels some guilt about saying he wants people to die and therefore needs tell himself he’s fighting in self-defense or whatever and wishes we could all be friends, over the guy who just says I like killing and hate my enemy. Throughout history, nations that at least payed lipped service to humanitarian values have been better than those that do not.

  25. Polymath says:

    What does “KSA” mean?

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    , @QC
  26. annamaria says:
    @Quercusalba

    Bingo. The “chosen” cannot accept excellence of Muslims, particularly in a country where our civilization has the deepest roots. The Israel’s hatred towards Iran is visceral and has nothing to do with reason. And look which of the two country is truly wise: “Zoroastrians, Jews, and Christians are officially recognized and protected by the government. For example, shortly after his return from exile in 1979, at a time of great unrest, the revolution’s leader, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini issued a fatwa ordering that Jews and other minorities be treated well.”
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Iran
    And then there is Purim, an annual celebration by the Jews worldwide of the slaughter of tens of thousands of Persians, arranged by a coy Jewess Esther.
    http://www.lobelog.com/purim-when-bad-history-makes-bad-policy/

  27. @Kiza

    The interests of the American people are twofold in this region:
    Consistent secure access to energy.
    A denial of territory to, and a suppression of, radical groups who might use “terrorist” attacks against the US.

    They are best met by having strong, stable preferably secular, but at least non expansionist, governments in the middle east.

    The interests of Israel lie in having failed states with various rival militia and terrorist groups constantly at war.

    Why did the US spend trillions of dollars turning what we had into what we have?

    That is the question that that should be front and center in any discussion on the Middle East.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  28. @alexander

    What sort of whack job is bothered about this?
    “The second issue at stake is the United States’ standing in the world. Our capacity to resolve issues (like this one) without resorting to violent aggression restores our diminished reputation among the other world powers as a “rational actor”

    The “United States” is of course the corrupt cess-pit of Washington DC.

    It is far better that the rest of the world continues to regard it as such than not.

    After a century devoid of the genocide,murder, pillage, and societal destruction perhaps then the rest of the world should consider reassessing the murderous filth.

    Germany, of course, is still considered guilty until until proven innocent 70 years after the UK started WWII.

  29. Rurik says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    – to expand its physical resources by moving into Russia or the Balkan States;

    … Germany had no aggressive intentions toward the West.

    I agree with many of your points, but it is just this one little ditty here that does the trick for me. If he would have kept his ambitions limited to destroying communism and returning German land to German control, then that would have been one thing, and I suspect there were many Russians and Polish and other Slavic peoples that would have agreed with him and fought alongside Germany to destroy the commie beast in its lair. But then with that disgusting talk of a ‘master race’ and the Slavics as untermenschen and the desire to steal their land and make slaves of the worthy ones, he doomed Germany to a righteous defeat at the hands of those very untermenschen he had so little respect for. The Slavic people had every right to stomp Nazi Germany straight into the ground for expecting to conquer them and take their lands and freedom from them, and that’s exactly what they did. God damn Hitler’s greed and megalomaniacal vanity and racial arrogance. The German people paid an incredibly heavy price for it just as did the Russians and Polish and so many others.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  30. @Bill Jones

    umm, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is KSM.

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
  31. @Bill Jones

    The interests of the American people are twofold in this region:
    Consistent secure access to energy.

    Which is why it makes so much sense for USA to sanction Iran’s oil production capabilities. (Carter imposed the first rather general sanctions in 1979, but in 1995 AIPAC drafted the executive order that Clinton signed, sanctioning companies from doing business with Iran. The Order meant that Conoco had to forego a lucrative contract to develop Iranian oil fields (the Chinese stepped in). The Executive Order was firmed up into the Libya-Iran Sanctions Act (D’Amato Amendment).

    If “the interests of the American people” are about ensuring “secure access to energy,” they have a curious, Israel-centric way of going about it.

    Bill Jones wrote:

    A denial of territory to, and a suppression of, radical groups who might use “terrorist” attacks against the US.

    actually, the standard recital is that US interests are to protect oil and to protect Israel.

    USA doesn’t — or didn’t, until Israel created them — have enemies in the Middle East.

    Benjamin Netanyahu & his father are the architects of the global war on terror. It was rolled out in July 1979, when Israel’s major “terrorist” enemy was Arafat and the PLO. The Netanyahus, still mourning the loss of son/brother Yonathan, who got himself killed at Entebbe by acting stupid, had not yet absorbed the import of Khomeini’s return to Iran to head the revolution.

    Not sure what the “interests” of the American people are as spun through the ram’s horn of today’s think tankers, but as laid down by America’s founders, US foreign policy values are spelled out here:

    George Washington’s Farewell Address, September 17, 1796:

    ” . . .The West derives from the East supplies requisite to its growth and comfort, and, what is perhaps of still greater consequence, it must of necessity owe the secure enjoyment of indispensable outlets for its own productions to the weight, influence, and the future maritime strength of the Atlantic side of the Union, directed by an indissoluble community of interest as one nation. Any other tenure by which the West can hold this essential advantage, whether derived from its own separate strength, or from an apostate and unnatural connexion with any foreign power, must be intrinsically precarious. . . .

    Against the insidious wiles of foreign influence (I conjure you to believe me, fellow-citizens,) the jealousy of a free people ought to be constantly awake; since history and experience prove, that foreign influence is one of the most baneful foes of Republican Government. . . . Excessive partiality for one foreign nation, and excessive dislike of another, cause those whom they actuate to see danger only on one side, and serve to veil and even second the arts of influence on the other. Real patriots, who may resist the intrigues of the favorite, are liable to become suspected and odious; while its tools and dupes usurp the applause and confidence of the people, to surrender their interests.

    The great rule of conduct for us, in regard to foreign nations, is, in extending our commercial relations, to have with them as little political connexion as possible. So far as we have already formed engagements, let them be fulfilled with perfect good faith. Here let us stop. “

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
  32. @Rurik

    But then with that disgusting talk of a ‘master race’ and the Slavics as untermenschen and the desire to steal their land and make slaves of the worthy ones, he doomed Germany to a righteous defeat at the hands of those very untermenschen he had so little respect for. The Slavic people had every right to stomp Nazi Germany straight into the ground for expecting to conquer them and take their lands and freedom from them, and that’s exactly what they did. God damn Hitler’s greed and megalomaniacal vanity and racial arrogance. The German people paid an incredibly heavy price for it just as did the Russians and Polish and so many others.

    tell us what you really think, Rurik!

    but seriously — Can you provide real evidence to support “disgusting talk of a ‘master race’ and the Slavics as untermenschen and the desire to steal their land ….”

    I’ve searched “Mein Kampf” and “master race” does not occur.

    William Shirer talks about “Hitler’s disgusting talk of a ‘master race’ ” in a dozen-and-a-half places. I checked a few of them against “Mein Kampf” and it appears that Shirer took some liberties with his interpretation. For example, in MK Hitler wrote of his admiration for his history teacher, Dr. Poetsch, and how much his perspective on “universal history” influenced him. Shirer took that same passage, tossed in the unsourced detail that “Dr. Leopold Poetsch . . .came from the southern German-language border region where it meets that of the South Slavs . . .[his] experience with the racial struggle there had made him a fanatical German nationalist, then applied that attitude to Hitler by association.

    It may well be true that Hitler used “disgusting talk about a master race,” but when a writer like Shirer, whose “Third Reich” influenced millions, pens sentences like:

    “That this view of life would strike a normal mind of the twentieth century as a grotesque hodgepodge concocted by a half-baked, uneducated neurotic goes without saying,”

    it’s hard to take the writing seriously; therefore it’s difficult to know what is objective history and what is a rant calculated to please a publisher and sell books.

    In “Those Angry Days,” a narrative of the battle between Isolationists and Interventionists over US entry into World War II, author Lynne Olson records that in the 1940 presidential campaign between Wendell Willkie and FDR,

    “Unsigned pamphlets were circulated asserting that Willkie approved of Hitler’s theory of the Germans as a master race and charging that his sister was married to a Nazi naval officer. In fact, she was married to the U. S. naval attache in Berlin.”

    That is to say, the phrase/concept “master race” as applied to Hitler and Germany was used, in that instance at least, as propaganda, to defame an adversary. See above: credibility has been vitiated.

    So, you’ve made some serious charges, Rurik; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof.

    I’d like to see your evidence for Hitler’s “master race.”

    • Replies: @Seamus Padraig
    , @Rurik
  33. joe webb says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Solon, etc.

    “as proof that Joe Webb’s analytical brilliance is fully in line with current US foreign policy under “Obongo,….” Hoo boy Solon you do me wrong.

    I am merely pointing out the reality of Arabs and Persians with regard to intelligence, emotional states, and so on. You may or may not recall that the neocon jews charged that anybody (like me ) who says the Arabs are incapable of democracy, etc. is a Racist…a few years ago. Clever little folks them jews.

    The neocons set-up the Arabs for a Big Fall (Arab Spring, remember that one? I predicted at the time that the Arab Spring would be more like bitter winter, and that the jew neocon scam was a great propaganda feint to cripple all of those Enemies of the Judenstaat)

    Because the enemy of your enemy as a possible ally is a fool’s game, any defense of the Arabs is …just more ideological tomfoolery, and of course liberal anti-racism. The Arabs are Human. By the way, with regard to your racial allegations about Augustine, there is always room on the right tail of the bell curve from any racial group, room for exceptions to the general rule of stupidity for a given race or group or “population” as the euphemism has it.

    You may have noticed that we are into a religious revival these days, the religion of anti-racism. I usually talk about White pathological altruism and so on.

    [MORE]

    Another angle here is that we are in a time of profound disruption, something like the last 30 years before 1900 wherein more Change occurred in that time, say some historians, than ever before in history.

    We are getting whipsawed by a lousy economy, working people getting virtually nothing for their greatly elevated productivity in the workforce, immigration that is driving most folks nuts, except for the upper-middle and rich who love cheap labor, etc, etc, and wars without end for the jews.

    Man is a social animal. The angst that most folks feel in our troubled land leads to searching for friendship and peace and love. Love the holy Negro, and the Mexicans, and the whatevers, and don’t forget to love the jews. This makes the liberals feel better. Hate anybody who suggests that the wretcheds cannot be helped.

    This is like a Betrayal from God or something. Of course God does not exist for liberals, but Race exists, but it is mysteriously of course socially constructed, so it can be done away with if only we try harder and spend another 15 trillion on Blacks (from the last 50 years Programs of Uplift) and Hate White Racists! maybe make them register and maybe concentration camps would be a good idea (the half-jew Clark) to keep the poison out of the body politic.

    A friend’s 12 year old granddaughter recently declared about something that it was “racist.” This kill the mocking bird and Anne Frank stuff for kids is child abuse. Kill the children is the liberal cruelty today.

    To return to the psychology of liberals these days, White Individualism and altruism combine to foster Thinking Good Thoughts…how we can all love one-another. The first thing is to tar and feather racialists, kill the devils or lock them up, no free speech for racists is the anti-fa mantra.

    This naivety about the Human Condition of social life, thisInnocence…is dangerous. It is the old communist impulse ( with or without jewish participation ) and religious impulse to Do-Good. Only Whites fall victim to this. Of course, other races can embrace communistic notions, but it is not to Do-Good, but to grab whatever they can get, spoils systems, tear down the talented, etc.
    ———
    So Solon, etc. please do not trash me for calling a spade a spade with regard to the Arabs and Persians…they are incapable of constitutional and restrained governance. You wrong me by placing me in the camp of the jewneocons.

    As far as Obongo is concerned, we are lucky he was elected and not the GOP. The GOP is totally dominated by jewneocons now, much more so than the Dems. We would have invaded Iran, etc, etc. with the Repugnicans. Just as we would be fighting Russia had the GOP jew dominated Russia haters gotten elected.

    The Arabs about 50 million of them are now in Europe. I suppose you are not especially delighted about that. Or are you with The Sacker who also loves Everybody except the Great Satan, the Anglo-Israel Beast.

    To repeat, we are in a time of great Change, like that of pre-1900 and it is scaring white folks who are smart enough to see it. The darkies don’t see it cuz they are cashing in on immigration, etc.
    America, the Land of Milk andFree Money

    The upper middle class does not see it as they are the running dogs of the super rich who are destroying the economy of the White lands but getting richer and richer by singing cumbaiya and bringing in the hordes of cheap labor.

    Maybe it is just a reprise of the old divide and conquer of fomenting racism to drive down wages for workers, and bust unions with scabs and Negroes, but now they claim that they want peace and love among the races, throwing them all together, and like the neocons who pitched Democracy for the Arabs, knew that it would all blow up and be good for the jews, thus the Corporate Money Bags now know that the Races thrown together will also blow up and be good for Capital and wage-slavery, and further social isolation to achieve the Ultimate Consumer, with no- ties to his family and race but with a good conscience that he/she is a World Citizen and Loves Everybody.

    The problem with these World Citizens is that there is no love in it for them, and ultimately they will just get crazier and crazier in their genuine social isolation….But I love the Negroes, and…why don’t they love me back? Kill the Pig! the White Racist! That should do the trick.

    Joe Webb

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  34. alexander says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Dear SolontoCroesus,

    I am trying to understand the point you are trying to make:
    that
    Supremacism
    ,militarism,
    zeal for conquest,
    land grabbing(lebensraum)
    eagerness to exterminate (ethnicly cleanse)

    are symptomatic of Zionist Ideology but were never”really” symptomatic of Nazi ideology?

    That these “attributes” truly reflect Zionism but were always” falsely” attributed to Nazism?

    I really do not want get into a debate with you about the suggestion that “Nazism” is getting a “bad rap!”

    I really do not want to get into a debate about the Holocaust ” not” having “happened.”…

    And I do not want to get into a debate about” Zionism’s” plan for Palestinian extermination “predating” Hitlers plan for the extermination of the Jews !

    I do not really see the point in all of it !

    My question to you is …( the big question, the important question)……

    Are” Holocausts” Okay?

    Is the extermination of a specific people bases on their ethnicity,..Okay?
    my argument is that its not okay….Its abhorrent , evil behavior !

    If one finds the extermination of the Jews, abhorrent and evil, which I do
    How is one supposed to feel about the extermination of the Palestinians..?
    that somehow…thats OK?

    Of course its not !….That is equally obscene, equally abhorrent !

    Ethnic cleansing’s are “exterminations”.They are the elimination of a specific people based on their ethnicity…..Its wrongness is NOT ethno-specific, its universal !

    Consider the crime of murder,or rape in the United States, its wrongness is not dependent on the eye color, skin color, or ethnic orientation of the victim…if its wrong, its wrong for everybody !

    So too are Holocausts !

    If you have an argument against that I would like to know what it is.

  35. @SolontoCroesus

    Well, what’s your proposed translation for Herrenvolk? The phrase was widely used by the Nazis for many years. I agree that Shirer’s writing was often extremely biased, but he wasn’t making that phrase up.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  36. @SolontoCroesus

    oops,
    dunno where that came from

  37. @SolontoCroesus

    I’m talking about current interests not those that existed prior to the present fuck up.

  38. Rurik says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    I don’t speak German, so I don’t know exactly how these words translate, but you get the general gist..

    Hitler :

    “If I can send the flower of the German nation into the hell of war without the smallest pity for the shedding of precious German blood, then surely I have the right to remove millions of an inferior race that breeds like vermin”

    If we speak of soil [to be conquered for German settlement] in Europe today, we can primarily have in mind only Russia and her vassal border states.
    — Hitler, Adolf (1926). Mein Kampf, Chapter XIV: Eastern Orientation or Eastern Policy

    “For the organization of a Russian state formation was not the result of the political abilities of the Slavs in Russia, but only a wonderful example of the state-forming efficacity of the German element in an inferior race.”
    — Hitler

    “We’ll take the southern part of the Ukraine, especially the Crimea, and make it an exclusively German colony. There’ll be no harm in pushing out the population that’s there now. The German colonist will be the soldier peasant, and for that I’ll take professional soldiers, whatever their line may have been previously.”

    “The Slavs are a mass of born slaves, who feel the need of a master. As far as we are concerned, we may think that the Bolsheviks did us a great service. They began by distributing the land to the peasants, and we know what a frightful famine resulted. / If anyone asks us where we obtain the right to extend the Germanic space to the East, we reply that, for a nation, her awareness of what she represents carries this right with it.”
    —Hitler

    Now were I a person of Slavic ancestry, and my lands were sitting to the east of Nazi Germany, how do you think I’d feel when the Wehrmacht came marching through?

    His racial vanity blinded him to the existential importance of the conflict he was in. He needed the Slavic peoples to fight along side the Germans to destroy the Bolsheviks once and for all. In fact millions of Slavic and Baltics and Cossacks and Ukrainians and many, many others did fight alongside the Germans, many even donning the uniform of the Wehrmacht to kill the hated commies. They were the millions of whom Churchill and FDR betrayed and returned to Stalin and certain death when the three demons met at Yalta.

    So much waste and so many horrors and so much of it for stupid racial arrogance.

    What I suspect people do sometimes is they make the Hegelian mistake of assuming that because the Jewish Bolsheviks were indeed that bad, that those who opposed them must have been that good. I just tend to see all the warts on all sides.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  39. @joe webb

    I’m not a particular fan of Augustine; in fact, I find him one of the psychologically least integrated persons to have left his mark on culture.

    Fully agree that US children are being brainwashed with the Ann Frank crap by the Abe Foxman crowd. It’s beyond pernicious. The liberal anti-zionist who runs Mondoweiss sez “the west owes a debt to Jews and to Palestinians.”

    Persians and Arabs are not the same, and citing IQ scores is a ludicrous measure. “IQ” is an Anglo-zionist trap, a category-system the Bernaysian elite employs to engineer society to their purposes and profit.

    Iranians — which has been multiethnic for more than a thousand years and is also one of the most culturally unified societies on earth — that’s why they are such a luscious target for the Eastern European knuckle-draggers that run Israel and most of the USA — is qualitatively superior to the Anglo-zionist gangs that Saker rightly condemns. Iran — Aryans — does not so much resist the Bernaysian categories; rather, it functions in a radically, qualitatively different ethical and cultural sphere. It is most likely that Jesus was Zoroastrian/Aryan.

    I’m not sure what you mean by democracy. I’m not sure you know what you mean by democracy. Our young friend (I suspect Alexander is under 40) thinks that the “great American way” of “democracy and liberty” means he has “individual liberty.”
    He’s deluded — well-intentioned but deluded; he’s been fed that crap in his Abe Foxman holocaustianity curriculum. Adam Smith knew it took a village to make a pencil but Alexander thinks he can individually walk out of his dwelling, get in his car and drive to the corner coffee-correctness center (ever hear Garrison Keillor do his “I just want a medium-size coffee with cream and sugar” routine?) all on his own individualized free will. There is no more programmed and group-engineered society on the planet than Americans, except maybe Germans who have been more brutally brainwashed than any society in history — at the behest of the people that the mondoweisser says is “owed” by the “west.”

    What the Anglo Zionists have in common is their core mythos — the Abrahamic-Moses supremacist routine.

    Iranians do not have the Abrahamic-Moses-Hebrew scripture as the core of their culture; at the heart of Iranian culture is Zoroastrianism, which does place the obligation to develop and live an ethical and moral life on each individual, and frames that ethical, moral responsibility in society, because as you said, humans are social animals. Each individual (Zoroastrian) assesses forms himself by developing consciousness of
    Good thoughts
    Good words
    Good deeds
    and conducting his relations with others so as to minimize “friction” — to do the most good for oneself with the least friction to society.

    This is the ideal of the democratic society, and its origins are Aryan. Hitler was not stupid; he knew that Aryan morality pre-dated Hebrew twaddle; Hitler had this in common with Thomas Jefferson, whose Syllabus assessed

    “Jews.
    1. Their system was Deism; that is, the belief in one only God. But their ideas of him and of his attributes were degrading and injurious.
    2. Their Ethics were not only imperfect, but often irreconcilable with the sound dictates of reason and morality, as they respect intercourse with those around us; and repulsive and anti-social, as respecting other nations. They needed reformation, therefore, in an eminent degree.

    Zoroastrianism does not have priests; priests are technicians who run tribal cultures — they enforce group norms, a radically different notion from that of Zarathrustra who place moral will in the individual. Jews are the world’s least democratic ideology, the ultimate group-thinkers who think themselves the world’s priests.

    Iranian culture is unified around its Zoroastrian core as communicated throughout the culture in its literature and epic. Islam is a more-or-less uneasy imposition on core Iranian culture that the Iranian people will work out if they manage to remain free of the predatory destruction of the Anglo Zionists.

    Iran and Arabs should not be discussed in the same categories. Their core mythos differ. Arabs, too, have been brutalized by the Anglo Zionists in a different way from the way Anglo Zionists brutalized and brainwashed Germans.

    In Nov. 2007 David Wurmser & his accomplices in the Israel Project discussed the threat the Islamic Republic of Iran posed to the Anglo Zionist project — the fundamental element of Khomeini’s message to the Muslim world in the ME was to cast off their humiliation at the hands of the Anglo Zionists and assert your manhood –imagine Khomeini & Ahmadinejad leading Syrtaki

    that’s what scares the shit out Anglo Zionists: that the Zoroastrian-based Aryan ethical, aesthetic, literate cultural unity of the Islamic Republic of Iran will spread throughout the Islamic world of the Middle East just as Jesus vanquished the capitalism-worshiping Pharisees.

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
  40. Horzabky says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Augustine was white. His mother was a Berber (white North African, at least originally; a small number of them are even fair-haired and blue-eyed; the type is still almost pure in the mountains) and his father was a Roman.

  41. @Seamus Padraig

    Herren volk

    Translate Google https://translate.google.com/#fr/en/race%20des%20maîtres
    German herren
    English men’s
    French Pour des hommes

    German volk
    English people
    French personnes

    German herrenvolk
    English master race
    French race des maîtres

    Paul Gottfried has written about Carl Schmitt and his influence on neoconservatives. The nexus between Schmitt and Leo Strauss, who was, for a time, a follower of Schmitt’s, is Machiavelli.

    We know that Stallin read Machiavelli — Khamanev (or maybe Zinoviev, I don’t remember which) gave Stalin a copy of The Prince in Russian.

    I’ve not read anything about Hitler’s acquaintance with Machiavelli but I think a case can be made that he was conversant with key concepts, not least through his association with Mussolini, who was a scholar of the Italian diplomat and author.

    A key concept in The Prince is “virtu,” an elusive word to define or translate.

    Google translate produces:
    Italian virtu
    German Tugenden
    English virtues
    French vert us

    But by virtu Machiavelli meant manly courage, the emphasis was on vir which of course means ‘man.’

    herren means “men’s” — manly.

    Putting the two words together literally, Herren volk means manly people, people of virtu.

    Consider the state of the German people in December 1932, after war, starvation, revolution, hyperinflation, humiliation, repeated attempts at Communist takeover/overthrow, political chaos, poverty, prostitution, and a massive influx of immigrant Russian and Polish Bolsheviks, Communists, Jews, and just plain destitute people with radical ideas.

    Machiavelli tells us that virtu is essential to the running of a well-ordered republic.

    The German volk were not in a state of virtu.

    When virtu is lost, the Prince must know, the situation is desperate, the viability of the state, of Niccolo’s beloved Florence, or Hitler’s beloved Germany, is in doubt.

    The only possible way to restore virtu in such a situation is for a strong-man dictator to take the reins of power and impose order and manly courage on the populace.

    Machiavelli never saw a successful restoration of Florentine virtu.

    Hitler, Goring, Goebbels and the NSDAP however, restored order and virtu in the German state. Richard Breitman and Allen Lichtman agree; take a look at the first page of their book, “FDR and the Jews.” “Hitler and the Nazis quelled violence against Jews from a time very shortly after taking power to just after the mob violence known as Kristallnacht when, for the first time, Jews were taken to concentration camps.” (I submit that Kristallnacht was a zionist pay ops, but that’s another story for another time.)

    Herrenvolk does not mean “master race.” That definition is a propagandist’s bastardization.

    Herrenvolk means manly people, people of virtu.

  42. @Rurik

    I don’t have time today to track these down & respond properly, Rurik, but I will, and thanks for the information.

    However, there are still no sources noted, except for the one cite in MK.

    Because, in a circumstance unique in history. the Allies/Americans gained control of tons of German documents, the validity of “things said by Hitler” is suspect. How can it be otherwise?

    I’ve been looking at a compilation of Hitler’s speeches in English but I’d rather spend $765 on a trip to the beach.


    the first line of this stanza from Auden’s “1939” is just as essential as determining the nature of the “huge imago that made a psychopathic god” — and who that psychopath really was.

    Accurate scholarship can
    unearth the whole offence
    from luther untill now
    that has driven a culture mad.
    From what occured at Linz
    What huge imago made
    A psychopathic god.
    I and the public know
    What all schoolchildren learn
    Those to whom evil is done
    Do evil in return.
    W. H. Auden

    • Replies: @joe webb
  43. alexander says:

    To whom it may concern,

    Lets consider for a moment two distinct historical events :

    1991 Operation Desert Storm.. the mission : to remove the Iraqi army from Kuwait after its “invasion” and attempted annexation of that country.

    2003 Operation Iraqi Freedom.. the “invasion” of Iraq because of the” imminent threat” of the use of Weapons of Mass Destruction against the United States were we not to.

    1991 Operation Desert Storm :

    There is no real historical” debate” that Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1990 …it is not a hoax, a fraud, or a delusion…it is a reality.
    One may make an argument that Iraq had “just cause” to do so, but whatever argument it may have made was insufficient to persuade the U.N.S.C .of the invasion and annexation’s legitimacy.

    The world determined through the proper functioning bodies and their resolutions (13-0 vote in the U.N.S.C.) that the annexation was illegitimate and that Iraq had to go !

    Iraq refused, so in 1991 Operation Desert Storm began, and the world with the United States in the lead, removed Iraq from Kuwait… by force !

    The United States along with the ‘world community” acted on the basis of international law, acted accordingly, and was extremely successful in its mission.

    I am a firm believer in war as a last resort, after WWI and WWII and Vietnam, I believe that WAR should happen when all else fails ! Not that we should not be prepared. Not that we should not have a highly advanced military, but when we” act “and commit ourselves to War, that conflict should be “fraud free” ! It should be REAL !
    On that note…..

    2003 Operation Iraqi Freedom:

    The biggest “Neocon” FRAUD foisted on the American people in the ENTIRE history of our nation !
    A multi TRILLION dollar “extermination” of ( perhaps ) over a million Iraqi people who never attacked us !
    The greatest moral, ethical, and financial assault by the” Neocons” against the solvency, integrity, and decency of United States (and of course, the people of Iraq) in our entire recorded history.

    UNCONSCIONABLE !

    To this day, I have NO idea why these people have not been rounded up and put in Guantanamo Bay !

    Nothing else really needs to happen…until that happens !

    Its all really “smoke and mirrors” until it does !

    Any arguments to the contrary?

    I am ALL ears !

    • Replies: @annamaria
  44. joe webb says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    imago again, the bug returns.

    I may have figured you out Solon.. All your talk about virtu and Carl Schmidt and Strauss could mean that you’re a nazi, an anti-nazi but Maximum Leader Type, or just a Philosopher.

    Talk, talk, talk. We live in a popular and democratic country and culture which means that what works here is Populism, now that we are in crisis. Ideas count for zero.

    You do not believe in IQ because you are dogmatic and deny the obvious facts (, not necessarily Truths) of race, heredity, nature, and all the social and genetic determinations that make up life.

    You think you can think your way to Truth…that is the Philosopher’s Pride .

    Your whole style is cryptic and calculated to stir up Doubt but not conviction since your position is scientifically false…that is, what human nature is, etc.

    I even know a White Nationalist who does not believe in Evolution, so steeped is he in guys like Schmidt. I think therefore I must be right.

    The global North created, thru cold and ice, the most intelligent people on the planet, except maybe for the Jews, who had their own breeding practices, not necessarily well thought out, while the easy living’ of the Global South possessed no culling stressors to weed out the dummies. IQ falls all over the planet with latitude, except for Amerindians who north and south have about the same IQ, presumably cuz they all came from the same place. The Inuit have about 8 or 10 points on the other amerindians, presumably cuz the last ten thousand years or so has smartened them up while they are culled by snow and ice.

    It is that simple, really, a long-term environmental shaping, to be sure, of the genes.
    ——-

    to put it simply, you want to be Boss. You would make a good Muzzie type or Jewy type Strauss or Maximum Leader, of course, around hominids too stupid to have acquired any knowledge of HBD, socio-biology, and simply what makes people tick socially.

    You keep talking about Ideas, as if they fundamentally mattered. They do not, but do provide excuses, rationalizations, justifications and plausible deniability against the charge of obfuscation, and ulterior motives. And yes, liberal ideas are another defense against reality, racial, and otherwise. Think good thoughts about the Other.

    Joe Webb

  45. former Washington Post journalist and author Don Oberdorfer died last week.

    He was the last of a breed.

    Brian Lamb interviewed him in 1991 here shortly after Oberdorfer had published his narrative of the “turn” — the breakup of the Soviet Union.

  46. Pacific says:
    @Rurik

    Jews are mirroring the Nazis

  47. Pacific says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    america is moving away from Israel why??

  48. Alexandra —

    I am trying to understand the point you are trying to make:
    that
    Supremacism
    ,militarism,
    zeal for conquest,
    land grabbing(lebensraum)
    eagerness to exterminate (ethnicly cleanse)
    are symptomatic of Zionist Ideology but were never”really” symptomatic of Nazi ideology?

    Generally, yes, with the specific assessments for each category explained at length in the earlier comment. Go back and read.

    That these “attributes” truly reflect Zionism but were always” falsely” attributed to Nazism?

    Yes again.

    I really do not want get into a debate with you about the suggestion that “Nazism” is getting a “bad rap!”

    One supposes that is because you know you would lose.

    I really do not want to get into a debate about the Holocaust ” not” having “happened.”…

    ditto

    And I do not want to get into a debate about” Zionism’s” plan for Palestinian extermination “predating” Hitlers plan for the extermination of the Jews !

    Hat trick! — but there’s a penalty on the play:
    There was no “plan for the extermination of the Jews.

    !

    I do not really see the point in all of it !

    That’s obvious.

    My question to you is …( the big question, the important question)……
    Are” Holocausts” Okay?

    What, no drumroll? All that drama and no one is listening. Perhaps stupid questions are snooze-inducing.

    Is the extermination of a specific people bases on their ethnicity,..Okay?
    my argument is that its not okay….Its abhorrent , evil behavior !

    That’s not so much an argument as a declaration, but many people agree with you.

    Many people apparently do not: FDR, Churchill and Stalin set in motion the attempt to annihilate the German people.
    They came pretty damn close to achieving their goal: European states are in demographic free fall.
    They lied to create hatred of Germans, lied to provoke a war, then attacked civilians relentless and genocidally when they could not win the war mano a mano.

    When Germany surrendered the Allies tortured, raped, starved, brutalized, ethnically cleansed and otherwise carried out crimes against humanity of an unprecedented magnitude and level of brutality for as much at three more years.

    Needless to say, the people who carried out those bestial crimes would not agree with your declaration that “extermination of a people . . .is abhorrent, evil behavior. They appeared to enjoy it to such a degree that the behavior is repeated against Palestinians, Viet Namese, Iraqis, Syrians, Libyans, Lebanese, Yemenis.
    Iran is next on the list; Iran is to be punished for defending the Palestinians, Lebanese, Yemenis, Syrians and to a certain degree Iraqis. So you have at least the Iranians in your camp.

    On the other hand, it seems much of the US Congress does not agree with you, nor do most presidential candidates. They are eager to see Iran punished further for its crime of uppity-ness in the face of western civilization’s democratizing efforts.

    If one finds the extermination of the Jews, abhorrent and evil, which I do
    How is one supposed to feel about the extermination of the Palestinians..?
    that somehow…thats OK?
    Of course its not !….That is equally obscene, equally abhorrent !

    As noted earlier, extermination of the Jews did not occur, so an equivalence is impossible.

    Ethnic cleansing’s are “exterminations”.They are the elimination of a specific people based on their ethnicity…..Its wrongness is NOT ethno-specific, its universal !
    Consider the crime of murder,or rape in the United States, its wrongness is not dependent on the eye color, skin color, or ethnic orientation of the victim…if its wrong, its wrong for everybody !
    So too are Holocausts !

    This appears to have been said already.

    If you have an argument against that I would like to know what it is.

    I didn’t go back and check but I think I made my arguments in an extensive earlier post. Go back and take a look. I’ll wait.

    Basically my argument is that the false narrative of a holocaust of Jewish people is a smokescreen to conceal the real holocaust of the German and Japanese people in World War II, and the ongoing ethnocide and culture-cide that is being carried out against the peoples of the Middle East in order to enable zionist Jews to sustain their mytho-fantasy in the land that was most recently the home of Palestinian Arabs and Muslims.

    • Replies: @alexander
  49. @alexander

    Having cut my eye teeth on the profound evils of Nazi Supremacism and the scourge its totalitarian ideology eventually became to world civilization…

    get thee to a dentist!

  50. alexander says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    I think I understand you now Mr Croesus,

    You are a Pro Nazi anti Jew holocaust denier…at least you want to sound like one…Is that correct?

    Perhaps you are one of those . what do they call it, Netanyahu’s ” Hasbara trolls ” masquerading as a Nazi …your arguments sure sound like you are ! they really do !

    But lets put that aside for a second !

    Lets assume, for arguments sake, that the Holocaust did happen to the Jews in Nazi Germany? ( against your” better” judgement)

    Why does that make a holocaust happening to the Palestinians today or the extermination of Palestine as a whole, acceptable?

    Doesn’t that make it twice as odious? twice as evil ? twice as foul?

    Doesn’t it , Mr Croesus.?

    Lets assume your” alleged” denial of the Holocaust…why does that make the brutal treatment and ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians OK either?

    You are not making very much sense Mr Croesus .

    You seem to get very angry at anyone who sees BOTH the Holocaust of Jews in Nazi Germany AND the Holocaust of Palestinians today as evil tragic events !

    And you get very angry at anyone who perceives it as growing from the same “behavioral tree” of supremacism and lebensraum !

    You seem to DEMAND that the recognition of the cruelty and ethnic cleansing of Palestine be synonymous with your “bogus” denial of the Holocaust ..Why?

    Isn’t that EXACTLY what a “hasbara troll” would do?

    You haven’t made the right arguments , Mr Croesus, you are making the arguments of a propagandist….a Hasbara troll ! At least it seems that way !

    Is that what you are?

    Come on ….Mr Croesus……Tell the truth

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    , @SolontoCroesus
  51. annamaria says:
    @alexander

    The failure of ALL defenses during the 9/11 event should have resulted in impeachment and incarceration of those occupying the highest positions in the US government and defense. Instead, the same high-placed people had initiated a wild war-profiteering party in the Middle East and have destroyed, point by point, the US Constitution under the pretext of “defense of motherland” (the current communism for the US financial sector is just a natural by-product of “plutocracy on the march.”) The masses have been distracted by the glittering things like gay marriage, celebrity scandals, and spooky terrorists everywhere; a corporate ownership of MSM has been very handy for the dumbing down the masses.
    Meanwhile, the plutocracy has been devouring the US, as well as re-educating vassal states away from “socialism” (support for human dignity), all while creating the conditions for making the planet eventually uninhabitable for humankind (ecology + nuclear arsenal + we do not do diplomacy).
    The whole story is not about the greed and macho habits and exceptionality – the root of all evils is unaccountability on the top. The unaccountability is incompatible with democracy and it is leading this country to ruin… While taking the whole world for a ride.

    • Replies: @alexander
  52. joe webb says:

    couple corrections.

    Earlier is said that 50 million Arabs are in Europe. I meant that 50 million muzzies are in Europe including assorted blacknesses from Africa.

    I got to know a few Palestinians about 15 years ago when getting into the anti-sanctions movement with regard to Iraq (you recall jewish Madame Albright and her remark that killing a few hundred thousand kids was “worth the price.”

    While there were a number of smart enoughs, the larger portion was not smart and they were volatile/violent at demos. At the time I deployed my Uncle Sam routine, with sign: I want you to die for Israel, and Israel sings: Onward Christian Soldiers.(google it for a giggle)

    I saw several occasions of Arab violence starting to happen. The average IQ of Arabs at around 86 stands as well with my experience thereof.

    The Arabs around here in SF go in for black culture, like rap music. as they say, case closed.

    Surely Solon, etc. would agree that music genres are related to IQ, with classical/romantic and early music of Europe being the, excuse me, highest IQ related.

    I was in Norway about 5 years ago spreading my racialist views far and wide. It took generally the age of about 40 for Norwegians to start overcoming their schooling propaganda, which is thick in Norway. I notice that they are starting to deport the third world detritus now.

    One gal about 40 who worked in Norway’s air force as a computer person, said: “We were very naive.” Including herself of course as only a white is capable of confessing .

    This of course is abhorrent to the sacker and maybe the Solon as well, since IQ measurement
    is an “anglo zionist” psy-op. The sacker is a liberal anti-racist! and Solon may also be a leveler, dunno. Of course, the exception to the rule of intelligence equality to Solon and the sacker, is themselves, who are brilliant….somehow, due to nonstop Thinking exercises…the brain just being a muscle.

    Joe Webb

    • Replies: @Seamus Padraig
  53. joe webb says:

    another comment on my Norway trip. (if you go bring lots of money.)

    I talked to a working class guy out in the boonies somewhere who lived and worked in Oslo. He was a slaughterhouse worker and worked with many Iraqis.

    He said all they did was complain. Yup, living in paradise and complain, probably cuz the Norwegian women would not give them their human right of sexual access to blondes. I never saw an interracial couple in Norway in three weeks of traveling around. I did see a couple of black adoptee young kids. One beautiful, and stunning as in brilliant and emotionally alive/healthy introduced me to her “brother”, an African kid about 10 who could not read or write. She said he was sick. Of course I just left it alone, figuring that she would figure it out after she was raped, and maybe, just maybe, her parents would also.

    By the way, this Norwegian guy was very nervous talking to me, looking about furtively like he was about to be arrested.

    Such is the dis-ease attendant to Diversity. Again, read Robert Putnam’s Diversity and Community in the 21 st Century.

    Putnam documents the erosion of Trust in diverse communities, and the high Trust, at least among Whites, in homogenous white communities…here is the US.

    Putnam was (is still?) a liberal and refused to publish his study until outed on it…that is the story anyway. Joe Webb

  54. Sam Shama says:
    @alexander

    You won’t get anything useful from this creature. He happens to be prime exhibit A. in what I previously tagged as the Bestiary.

    In his cut and paste posts of multiple pages, you will find a never-ending repetition of three things: hatred for the U.S.A, hatred of Jews and denial of the Holocaust and an unqualified love of Shia Islam and Iran.

    I picture him goose-stepping around in a toothbrush moustache.
    (Not that it would scare a jew these days ,anymore)

  55. @alexander

    Alexandra,

    You are a SJW girl, right, Alexandra?

    You’re committed to working for an end to the occupation and oppression of Palestinians, a laudable effort. I agree completely: the Palestinians are being brutalized horribly and it must stop; the conscience of the world must be awakened, informed, and mobilized to demand justice for the Palestinian people.

    You are also still wrapped up in your “eyeteeth.”

    I’m guessing you’re rather new in your activism — the overuse of exclamation marks suggests to me that you have a great deal of passion, even outrage, that is not matched by your knowledge base and that far outweighs your perception of your ability to be effective.

    Regarding your knowledge base — the inventory of information that fuels your activism — please don’t take this the wrong way, Alexandra, I think you are well intentioned, but your information reservoir is inadequate and distorted. That chunk of knowledge about the “profound evils of Nazi supremacism blah blah blah” that you “cut your eyeteeth” on was manufactured at hasbara central, right next door to Yad Vashem and overlooking Deir Yassin.

    You have not yet begun to tap into the real facts of what is really being done to the Palestinian people as well as to almost all the other people of the region, much less all of the other millions of people who have been slaughtered; governments overthrown; cities, fields, businesses reduced to rubble; ancient monuments to several culture’s history, art and highest aspirations destroyed, all to secure for 7 million Eastern European Jewish people a Berlin-looking Hebrew-speaking mytho-fantasy on the Mediterranean.

    It’s understandable that the false information is so overwhelming and compelling, and that challenges to it are so vigorously rejected. As to the latter point, it is extremely difficult to dislodge by use of reason information and attitudes that have been implanted emotionally. You are no doubt aware that emotion, not reason, is the medium of exchange in hasbara.

    As to the first point, we’re dealing with one of the most complex histories in the world. But even more impactful than that, the disinformation campaign surrounding zionism may be unprecedented in world history for its audacity, its ubiquity, and its relentlessness. We have been lied to about zionist-related events reaching back at least to the late 1800s. That’s a lot of dis-information and mis-education to unpack, expunge, and replace.

    We are in the midst of a 150-year long war. Your post about the difference between the 1990-91 Persian Gulf war and the 2003 invasion of Iraq crystallized that realization for me — so thanks. My first reaction to your 1991 vs 2003 posting was, They are the same war. And of course they are. More on that in a different comment.

    [MORE]

    —-
    Enough of preaching — Let’s tackle your comment point-by-point:

    I think I understand you now Mr Croesus,
    You are a Pro Nazi anti Jew holocaust denier…at least you want to sound like one…Is that correct?

    No, it is not correct.
    I am not “pro-Nazi.” Nor am I reflexively anti-Nazi. I think that all sides of the situation need to be examined fully, objectively and accurately.

    Nor do I permit myself to be labeled a “holocaust denier.” This is a subtle point, but I must insist:
    To be a holocaust denier presumes a binary argument in which holocaust affirmer is the presumed, proper, obvious correct choice. Thus, to be a holocaust denier already gives validity to the affirmative position.
    I refuse to do that. I will not be boxed into that frame.

    The evidence and logic compel me to think that the dogmatized holocaust narrative is false in a sufficient number of ways to call into question the veracity of the entire story.

    Several months ago this statement appeared in the <a href = "http://mondoweiss.net/2015/01/auschwitz-revisited#sthash.OL2eEF3a.dpuf&quot; Mondoweiss website. The entire paragraph is quoted because it deserves serious unpacking, but my focus here is on the last sentence:

    Holocaust denial will remain a fringe issue. The documentation is secure in its veracity and overwhelming in its volume. If anything, today’s school children are in danger of thinking that Churchill, Roosevelt and Stalin went to war against Hitler because of what was happening to the Jews.

    The statement implies that war against Hitler was not waged because of “what was happening to the Jews” which begs two questions: how did “today’s school children” get that “dangerous” thought; and if war against Hitler was not waged “because of what was happening to Jews, ” then why did Churchill, Roosevelt and Stalin go to war against Hitler?

    I maintain that the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth must be the standard to answer those questions.

    Perhaps you are one of those . what do they call it, Netanyahu’s ” Hasbara trolls ” masquerading as a Nazi …your arguments sure sound like you are ! they really do !

    I’ve seen this line before. It boggles the mind. It makes no sense to me. Hard to know how to respond. I could, I suppose, tell about one of my first experiences in activism. I had just received a copy of the 2002 WUJS Hasbara manual. I had it with me when I attended an event where Walt and Meirsheimer discussed their book, The Israel Lobby. The event was packed with AIPAC members and members from a local synagogue. My companion and I sat at a table where every other person was Jewish, and were obviously extremely antipathetic to W & M. I placed the Hasbara manual on the table and was quickly made to fear I might not leave the room in one piece. There’s more to the story, and I’ve had several similar experiences, but enough of that for now.

    But lets put that aside for a second !

    agree

    Lets assume, for arguments sake, that the Holocaust did happen to the Jews in Nazi Germany? ( against your” better” judgement)
    Why does that make a holocaust happening to the Palestinians today or the extermination of Palestine as a whole, acceptable?

    I don’t recall saying that it did. It’s not a claim I or any marginally moral person would make, although Golda Meier has done so and apparently many Israelis hold that attitude.
    Last April, Gideon Levy spoke at a conference hosted by Alison Weir’s organization, CNI, and WRMEA

    Levy said,

    But in Israel, anything goes and both declarations were accepted as the only truth. And here, I get to the third set of values that enable us Israelis to live in peace with the occupation. This is maybe the most crucial one and the worst one. We say victimization, we say chosen people. When I say victimization it goes without saying, we have to mention the Holocaust and the unforgettable Mrs. Golda Meir that the American jury had exported to Israel. She said once—this unforgettable woman—that after the Holocaust the Jews have the right to do whatever they want. But the third set of values is the most dangerous one. This is the systematic de-humanization of the Palestinians, which enables us Israelis to live in peace with everything because if they are not human beings like us, then there is not really a question of human rights.

    And if you scratch under the skin of almost every Israeli, you will find it there. Almost no one will treat the Palestinians as equal human beings like us.

    Doesn’t that make it twice as odious? twice as evil ? twice as foul?
    Doesn’t it , Mr Croesus.?

    Please, just call me Croesus. “Mr.” is my father.

    Lets assume your” alleged” denial of the Holocaust…why does that make the brutal treatment and ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians OK either?

    Exactly who are you arguing with — or rather, shouting at, Alexandra? I never said the brutal treatment of the Palestinians is OK. I’ve typed a lot of words at you and maybe I screwed up something causing you to interpret it differently from what I intended. If so, please point to that screw-up or statement that made you think I said it was OK for Israeli Jews to brutalize Palestinians.

    You are not making very much sense Mr Croesus .

    If ever a statement needed an exclamation point it’s this one.

    You seem to get very angry at anyone who sees BOTH the Holocaust of Jews in Nazi Germany AND the Holocaust of Palestinians today as evil tragic events !

    That’s not quite accurate. As stated above, facts and logic persuade me that the dogmatized holocaust narrative is false.
    To the extent that you magically divine anger, it may emerge from my conviction that the evil behavior of American, Jewish, British and other leaders and influencers resulted in the planned and deliberate deaths of millions of innocent people in Germany, Russia, Poland etc. in World War II, and that having gotten away with those crimes against humanity, the very same persons/groups are carrying out the very same brutal and criminal activities against other innocent people, including Palestinians but not only Palestinians, and threatening to do the same to Iranians, for whom I have a special fondness.

    And you get very angry at anyone who perceives it as growing from the same “behavioral tree” of supremacism and lebensraum !

    Once again, not quite accurate. I believe I dealt with the lebensraum issue in an earlier, lengthy comment. There is a closer comparison between the German desire to expand its territory and the Jewish zionist to expand its territory. It could take a monograph to thoroughly explore the parallels and disjunctures, but the most obvious point is this: the German plan was never enacted.
    The Jewish plan originated well before GPO, began to be implemented when Hitler was still in knee-britches, and continues to this day.

    As to “supremacism,” as I demonstrated earlier, it seems obvious that “Master race” was a propagandized, bastardized translation of Herrenvolk, which I argue means and meant to the German people, “manly people,” people who had virtu. It served to raise the morale of the German people and to unify them around a shared sense of cultural pride at a time when they and their culture had been tremendously debased. The American people could use such a shot of restructured community pride — virtu.

    Zionist Israeli Jews, on the other hand, hold as their core self-identier the notion that they are god’s chosen people. Rabbi Ken Spiro of AISH.org explains Jewish choosenness. Spiro says that “it is the responsibility of the Jewish people to teach the world values … to drag them kicking and screaming into a recognition of ethics …”

    You seem to DEMAND that the recognition of the cruelty and ethnic cleansing of Palestine be synonymous with your “bogus” denial of the Holocaust ..Why?

    One again, not quite accurate.
    I’m gonna go off on another tangent. The word algebra means alignment of the bones. The concept and science of algebra emerged from the Eastern world.

    On my last visit to Iran I was intrigued with all the intricate windows in public buildings in Iran’s cities. Mullions are precisely fitted to frame assemblies of small pieces of colored glass. If those mullions, those bones are incorrectly cut or misaligned, the entire structure fails. Iran’s built environment reflects to- and teaches- the Iranian people to think and act with care and precision because each small part contributes to the integrity and beauty of the whole building, or community.

    Contrast this with Israel’s built environment, which Eyal Weizman discusses in Hollow Land: Israel’s Architecture of Occupation.

    Alexandra, your bones are all out of whack.
    Let’s take your window apart and see if anything can be salvaged.
    Here are the pieces:

    1. You seem to DEMAND
    2. that the recognition of the cruelty and ethnic cleansing of Palestine
    3. be synonymous with
    4. your “bogus” denial of the Holocaust ..
    5. Why?

    1. You are unsure of yourself, you have not measured the piece against a rule/standard nor consulted the blueprint, in preference to guessing what is in the mind of the designer, but you are MAD AS HELL. The piece is cut wrong and is not usable. Out it goes.

    skip to #4: Bogus: not genuine or true; fake; false; spurious.
    You are saying that Croesus’s “denial of the holocaust” is false, fake; is not genuine.

    As stated earlier, I do not “deny” the holocaust; I think the narrative is false. This disturbs you because it goes against the grain. It’s important that the grain of the wood be properly oriented to the position and function it serves.
    Truth is the mind’s assent to reality.
    You have to decide whether the grain of the wood should align with the way nature intended it, that is, with reality, or with what you have been led to believe is true, which in my estimation is a distortion of truth/reality. This piece of wood will not function properly in the window unless it is aligned with reality. You have to decide what you are going to do about that — live with an out-of-kilter window on the world, or realign your thinking to comport with reality.

    2. the cruelties endured by Palestinians.
    They are real. They are the truth. There is no escaping their reality.

    recognition: the perception of something as existing or true; realization.
    the acknowledgment of something as valid or as entitled to consideration

    cognition: the mental action or process of acquiring knowledge and understanding through thought, experience, and the senses.
    from co- + gnoscere to come to know

    Israeli Jews and other zionists are systematically blocking the ability of the rest of the world to recognize — come to know about, develop an awareness of — the cruelties they are carrying out against Palestinians.

    3. be synonymous with . . .

    having the same or nearly the same meaning.

    5. Why?
    Remember the line in John Lennon’s God:

    “That’s reality.”

    What does our window look like when “the dream is over” and we assert our own manhood — “Now I am John,” — when we become who we are?

    2. Recognition of the cruelty and ethnic cleansing of Palestine
    3. is the same as
    4. what Jews in collaboration with Allies carried out against the German, Japanese and Russian etc. people (as well as Arabs and Iranians, and earlier, Armenians, by the way), and that is being carried out against Iraqis, Afghanis, Syrians, Lebanese, Yemenis, and is intended to be carried out against Iranians.
    5. That is reality. We who are appalled at the immorality and injustice must claim our manhood, our virtu, and clamor to stop the criminal behavior.

    Isn’t that EXACTLY what a “hasbara troll” would do?

    I have no way of knowing.

    You haven’t made the right arguments , Mr Croesus, you are making the arguments of a propagandist….a Hasbara troll ! At least it seems that way !

    “It” may “seem that way” to you because you have not yet dislodged propaganda from your eyeteeth. You’re still the Walrus. Said another way, you’re not yet able to distinguish propaganda from a bucket of warm spit.

    Is that what you are?
    Come on ….Mr Croesus……Tell the truth

    This is getting tiresome.
    For some reason, all I can think of is one of my favorite passages from Leaves of Grass — maybe it’s because what is supposed to be getting done right now is mowing the grass …

    “I have said that the soul is not more than the body,
    And I have said that the body is not more than the soul,
    And nothing, not God, is greater to one than one’s self is,
    And whoever walks a furlong without sympathy walks to his own
    funeral drest in his shroud,
    And I or you pocketless of a dime may purchase the pick of the
    earth,
    And to glance with an eye or show a bean in its pod confounds the
    learning of all times,
    And there is no trade or employment but the young man following it
    may become a hero,
    And there is no object so soft but it makes a hub for the wheel’d
    universe,
    And I say to any man or woman, Let your soul stand cool and composed
    before a million universes.

    And I say to mankind, Be not curious about God,
    For I who am curious about each am not curious about God,
    (No array of terms can say how much I am at peace about God and
    about death.)

    I hear and behold God in every object, yet understand God not in the
    least,
    Nor do I understand who there can be more wonderful than myself.

    Why should I wish to see God better than this day?
    I see something of God each hour of the twenty-four, and each moment
    then,
    In the faces of men and women I see God, and in my own face in the
    glass,
    I find letters from God dropt in the street, and every one is sign’d
    by God’s name,
    And I leave them where they are, for I know that wheresoe’er I go,
    Others will punctually come for ever and ever.”

    ― Walt Whitman

    • Replies: @alexander
    , @B.R.
  56. alexander says:
    @annamaria

    You have nailed that one, Anamarina !

    “Yes “….while taking the whole world for a ride…an EIGHTEEN TRILLION DOLLAR RIDE on the backs of the american TAXPAYER!

    Way too PRICEY !…they gotta go DOWN !

  57. Anonymous • Disclaimer says: • Website

    So what’s the real deal with Iran?

    Obama’s snubbing of Israel and courting of Iran is just theatrics to justify an Israeli attack on Iran
    http://www.sott.net/article/293315-All-theater-Obama-Netanyahu-fallout-planned-in-2009

    The Brookings Institution’s 2009 policy paper titled, “Which Path to Persia? Options for a New American Strategy Toward Iran,” makes clear that negotiations with Iran over its nuclear program is merely theater, and that it will be used to give the world the impression that the United States explored all possible “peaceful” options before resorting to violent regime change…

    The Daily Mail reported

    “President Obama is alleged to have stopped an Israeli military attack against Iran’s nuclear facilities in 2014 by threatening to shoot down Israeli jets before they could reach their targets, according to reports to emerge from the Middle East at the weekend

    The threat from the U.S. forced Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu to abort a planned attack on Iraq, reported Kuwaiti newspaper Al-Jarida.

    Netanyahu will be in Washington for an address to Congress on Tuesday aimed squarely at derailing Obama’s cherished bid for a diplomatic deal with Tehran.

    Here, the Daily Mail repeats a growing narrative that dovetails neatly into long-standing US foreign policy described by the Brookings Institution’s report in 2009 – down to the letter. In fact, the prospect of “shooting down” Israeli planes was discussed as one of many props used in this geopolitical theater…

    The US, as prescribed by Brookings, is portrayed as desperately trying to hammer out an almost unreasonable accommodation with Iran, while “mad dog” Israel seeks to unilaterally attack Iran – thus giving the US the plausible deniability openly created ahead of any Israeli attack on Iran…

    The most salient advantage this option has over that of an American air campaign is the possibility that Israel alone would be blamed for the attack. If this proves true, then the United States might not have to deal with Iranian retaliation or the diplomatic backlash that would accompany an American military operation against Iran. It could allow Washington to have its cake (delay Iran’s acquisition of a nuclear weapon) and eat it, too (avoid undermining many other U.S. regional diplomatic initiatives).

  58. QC says:
    @Polymath

    Kingdom of Saudi Arabia

  59. Your error in prediction should cause you to downgrade your estimate of Iran’s attractive power, since that was the prediction’s basis.

  60. alexander says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Wow, Mr Croesus,

    If god could deliver a “golden child” to Benjamin Netanyahu in the form of proof positive of “anti-semitic hate”…it would be you !

    You must be a Hasbara troll !

    Every utterance that spills from your diatribes seems to extol the virtues of “truly wiping the Jews off the map once and for all”.. Alas the holocaust having never happened it can “still happen” you just need to get it right and put an end to world Jewry , once and for all !

    Geeze, thanks to Mr Croesus here ,we have to give King Bibi 30 billion a year for his holocaust defense from now on, not just three !

    Must be a Hasbara troll !

    I suppose your being in the midst of a heroic 150 year war means that you have been fighting this one for a long ,long time…

    Maybe you are an “immortal”?

    An” immortal “Jew hater…who rose from the earth in the Neolithic era to do battle against the JUDENRAT scurrying amongst your feet !

    Your clear eyed historical accuracy ,so far beyond the bounds of mere mortal men (and Jew lovers) must make you tall…very tall….. a Giant amongst men, towering over the puny..jew infected vision of us lowly land crawlers , with you clear eye on the horizon and complete command of history’s Truth.

    Maybe you are he…Zarathustra himself…striding boldly toward imparting your great wisdom to all us “floundering” quislings mired in the fog of eternal Zionist propaganda dating back to the Paleolithic era?

    You will light the path and mark the way…so we may all follow humbly in your march toward the great clarity that only YOU can impart….your grand strides,accented by our feverish scurrying behind…..”See my children” you say… as you reach down with your great arm and retrieve from the ground of history ,a stone……”.every stone…a JEW stone!…every stone …a JEW stone !

    Thus spoke Zara-Croesus…Every stone…. a” Jew” stone !

    Better make that 60 billion a year for Bibi.!..Right Mr Croesus…or should we go more?

    Do you see what I am saying?

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  61. @alexander

    “Do you see what I am saying?”

    Doe you know what you are saying?
    Does anyone?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzfeNKl-SFw#t=1656

    • Replies: @alexander
    , @Seraphim
  62. alexander says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Every statement you make on Holocaust denial is just more money in Bibi war chest !

    he feeds off it…and you just keep doling it out !

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  63. @alexander

    We can be a team, Alexandra, you and me…don’t you see !

    Good cop….bad cop, we’ll double-team him, you and me Alexandra !

    You’ll keep Bibi on the ropes with the exclamations marks…wham ! slam ! pow !
    While I harry him with lawsuits about how he’s a pathological liar and killer…you know, the kind of stuff you talked about should be done to Bush about Iraq !

    Whadda ya say, Alexandera, do you think it will work !

    Do you have enough exclamation marks on hand to do the job !

  64. Seraphim says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    The characteristic of the Hasbara troll is that when he remains short of arguments, falls back to the default position: accusation of “Holocaust denial” and anti-semitism. “How many fingers do you see, Winston? Four is not an answer. “Sometimes they are five. Sometimes they are three. Sometimes they are all of them at once. You must try harder. It is not easy to become sane.” You must love Big Brother or otherwise “We shall meet in the place where there is no darkness.”

  65. Sam Shama says:
    @Rurik

    The video is certainly alarming. The Israeli settler, by the looks of it, is an extremely religious man. The extremely religious in no way speak for an entire population. As an Israeli myself, I must say that this image provided by this horrible man is not only disgusting but misleading as well. There are and will always be people who believe in these manifestations. However they do not speak for the majority (which by the way, want peace). It’s men like Bibi that skew that image.

  66. @joe webb

    This of course is abhorrent to the sacker and maybe the Solon as well, since IQ measurement is an “anglo zionist” psy-op. The sacker is a liberal anti-racist!

    I have followed Saker’s blog for about two years now continuously, and he is definitely not a “liberal anti-racist”. He’s an Orthodox reactionary who is anti-western. And when exactly did he declare IQ scores to be an AZ “psy-op”? Do you actually have a source on that? I just did a search and found nothing other than a few anonymous postings on the subject.

  67. B.R. says:

    @Saker

    The possibility to test the nuclear weapon (untested it is useless)

    Gun-type bombs made out of HEU need not be tested. Even back in 1945 the bomb worked as intended, and no testing was needed.

    Furthermore, I would not be surprised at all if at present time, completely testing a bomb was not mandatory. Simulation software is much, much better.

    Also.. “no delivery vehicles”.

    Uh-huh. They seem to have developed and tested almost a dozen rocket designs with a range of over 2000 km. They have solid-fuelled missiles with a range of 2000 km.

    So what is it, really? Are you incompetent or a shill tasked with muddying the waters?

    • Replies: @5371
  68. B.R. says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    That chunk of knowledge about the “profound evils of Nazi supremacism blah blah blah” that you “cut your eyeteeth” on was manufactured at hasbara central, right next door to Yad Vashem and overlooking Deir Yassin.

    You do realize that actual, live, SS officers and enlisted have on camera said that holocaust deniers are full of shit?

    Also..where exactly has the millions of Jews who according to you have not been shot or gassed gone?

    Where did all the Polish Jews go? Something like 3 million have gone missing between 1939 and 1945.

    Can’t hide 3 million in an ashtray.

    Also – if Holocaust is a fake, who exactly manufactured all those fake skeletons that have been found in mass graves in eastern Europe? The same guys who made all the fake skeletons that have been planted in USSR by Germans to make it look like Soviets shot millions of their own citizens? Or was it a different purveyor of wholesale fake skeletons who provided those fakes?

    • Replies: @5371
    , @SolontoCroesus
  69. Seraphim says:

    @Where did all the Polish Jews go?

    To Uzbekistan, the Urals and Siberia. The bulk of Polish Jews lived in the Soviet occupied part of Poland, where from they have been evacuated in the first weeks of the War.

    @Can’t hide 3 million in an ashtray.

    But where are the ashes? Should have been 6000 tonnes.

    • Replies: @B.R.
  70. 5371 says:
    @B.R.

    A gun-type bomb is too cumbersome to deliver by missile, nor can it form the basis for the further developments one would want. As for just carrying out simulations, even the state of Israel did the Vela test.

  71. 5371 says:
    @B.R.

    There are plenty of real skeletons. Your task is to prove that they were all Jews, and you have not attempted it.

  72. B.R. says:
    @Seraphim

    To Uzbekistan, the Urals and Siberia. The bulk of Polish Jews lived in the Soviet occupied part of Poland, where from they have been evacuated in the first weeks of the War.

    So where are their descendants? Did Stalin kill them all?

    But where are the ashes? Should have been 6000 tonnes.

    Dispersing 6000 tons of ashes to the winds can be done in a couple of days.

    After a week of rain, the ash that had settled onto the ground would be gone.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  73. @B.R.

    Also..where exactly has the millions of Jews who according to you have not been shot or gassed gone?
    Where did all the Polish Jews go? Something like 3 million have gone missing between 1939 and 1945.
    Can’t hide 3 million in an ashtray.

    Sept 1, 1939 – May 31, 1945 = 57 months = 52,631 missing Jews per month
    Per day = 1,754 Jews went missing each and every day for 1,710 days.

    How long does it take to kill a human and make some disposal of the body?
    How many man-hours are required?

    In a 10-hour day 3 persons per minute must be killed and disposed of — burned, turned to ash, then scattered in the wind.

    Is that plausible?

    The USA formed the strategic plan; set up manufacturing plants to build planes; manufactured planes and trained pilots; purchased the research space; built and furnished model buildings; practiced setting them afire “in the most efficient way,” using various mixes of chemicals and incendiary devices.

    The British did something similar in facilities in England, the name of which escapes me at the moment.

    From May 10 1940 to May 8 1945 the Allies bombed 131 German cities and towns, killing (according to Jorg Friedrich in “The Fire“), 600,000 German civilians* and “de-housing”
    7 million working class German civilians. Per plan.

    (* “This civilian casualty total is far removed from the generally anticipated total of several millions.” — THE U.S. STRATEGIC BOMBONG SURVEY,” in Friedrich, The Fire, p. 325)

    That’s a per-day kill rate of 416.66 persons per day.

    If, after all that planning, the Allied kill rate was only 416.66 persons per day, but the German produced a “missing Jews” rate in Poland was more than four times that daily rate, isn’t it reasonable to suppose the Germans had a plan for causing that many Jews to go missing?

    As William Shirer stated in the opening pages of “Rise and Fall of the Third Reich,” WWII was unique in history in that enormous amounts of German documents — 450 tons, Shirer says — were retrieved by US military forces and brought to USA, where Americans reviewed and photocopied them before returning them to Germany.

    If there had to have been a plan to make so many persons go missing; and if US historians combed through 450 tons of German war documents, isn’t it reasonable to suppose they would have found that plan?

    Did American historians find such a plan?

    Where 3 million Polish Jews go?

    Maybe they made up the number. It’s Hollywood, after all; supernumeraries for a crowd scene are paid by the contract not the head.

    Maybe the criterion for that number is the same as the criterion for the holocaust survivor designation: If you lived or had lived in a place where Nazis went in WWII, and you lived, either there or in USA or Dominican Republic or Palestine or anywhere else in the world, you are a holocaust survivor.

    Maybe if you were Jewish and lived in Poland before the war, but did not live in Poland after the war, or were no longer Jewish, you were counted as one of the “3 million missing Polish Jews.”

  74. Seraphim says:
    @B.R.

    @So where are their descendants?

    Israel, USA…

    @Dispersing 6000 tons of ashes…

    The real problem is the time required to produce them. It takes about one to three hours to cremate a human body, and that at the optimum temperature (870–980° Celsius). How many hours to burn 3 million? You do the maths.

  75. B.R. says:

    It takes about one to three hours to cremate a human body, and that at the optimum temperature (870–980° Celsius).

    That is if you factor in heating, cooling down the ovens and cleaning them.

    Germans and the Jews operating the furnaces did not care if the ashes and bodies mixed. The hotter the ovens were, the less fuel was needed to combust the corpses. People burn pretty good once the fat takes to the flame.

    So the time was about 30 mins per body. And the ovens were pretty big.

    You holocaust deniers are pussies. You hate the Jews, have songs about killing Jews, yet maintain that the most powerful jew hater ever, who for five years could do practically anything he wanted did not kill any.

    Sigh.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  76. Seraphim says:
    @B.R.

    How big were the ovens and how big? “Pretty big” is not enough.
    Anyhow, if the burning time was 30 min, we are still left with 1.5 million hours. How many days? Looks more than five years.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  77. Seraphim says:
    @Seraphim

    Correction:
    How big were the ovens and how many?

  78. Karl says:

    [“Sockpuppetry” is the use of multiple handles to hide one’s identity and pretend that one’s views are much more widely held than is actually the case. Commenters who continue such severe violations of website rules may see all their future comments summarily trashed.]

    >> How do you reason with a people who start out by demanding that you exist as their God given slave?

    The same way that you reason with people who claim that Mount Moriah is theirs because Mohammed rode on a white horse from Moriah, straight to heaven.

    You have no problem with thatstory (which is not even recorded in the Quran), but you have a problem with the story which is written in the Bible?

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