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Putin Sends Chechen Special Operation Forces to Syria
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Very interesting news today: according to the journal Izvestia, Russia will be sending operators from the so-called “Chechen” special forces battalions “West” and “East” to Syria to “guard the Russian installations” in Khmeimim and Tartus. According to Russian sources, these two battalions have been converted into a “military police” force which will be fully deployed by the end of December.

This news leaves many fascinating questions unanswered.

First, even though the Russian sources make it sound like we are talking about two full battalions, I suspect that this is not the case and that a few companies will be formed from elements drawn from these battalions. Why? Because these battalions are part the backbone of the Russian security system in the Caucasus and that to use such elite forces just to guard 2 military installations makes no sense.

Second, this does beg the question of what these “Chechens” (actually a misnomer – see below) will really be doing Syria. The only circumstance in which it would make sense to send them to protect the Russian bases in Kheimim and Tartus would be if a massive attack was expected against these installations and no other reinforcements were available, which is clearly not the case.

Third, these two battalions are mostly, but not exclusively, composed of Sunni Muslim operators. That yields obvious advantages. Furthermore, these battalions have had a history of successfully defeating the Wahabi insurgency in Chechnia. This might be crucially important because Wahabi Chechens also compose some of the best forces available to the Daesh/ISIS/US command in Syria.

So what is really happening here?

First, it should be stressed that these two battalions are really quite unique units. While formally they are just part of the larger Russian special forces community, they have a unique history and unique reputation. Traditionally, Russia has always relied on elite Muslim shock forces, and most of those have been Chechen. This was true before the 1917 Revolution as it was true after. For example, the so-called “Muslim battalion” played a key role in the invasion of Afghanistan. And 2008, the Chechen battalions “West” and “East” played a key role in the Russian counter-offensive against the Georgian forces. To make a long story short: not only are these battalions known for their amazing courage and skills, their appearance often sends the opposing forces into a panic.

Second, Ramzan Kadyrov has been pouring huge resources, with the full support of Putin, of course, into the creation of a unique special forces training facility in Chechnia where special operators from all over Russia are coming to learn, teach and share their experience. As a result, the so-called “Chechen” units are, in reality, a mix of special operators from all over Russia who have been specially trained to deal with Daesh-like insurgencies.

This means that regardless of the actual size of the force sent to Syria, to use it to protect installations is total overkill and nobody in Russia really believes that all these lads will be doing is manning check-points. Their true mission will be something very different.

Some Russian analysts have been speculating that their real function will be to clear Aleppo from the remaining al-Nusra/Daesh/ISIS forces. Maybe, but I doubt it. I find it much more likely that these men will be sent in to train Syrian special forces in advanced counter-insurgency intelligence operations. For one thing, the Russians have admitted that they have Chechen intelligence agents infiltrated into Daesh. It would only make sense for the Russians to share their experience with their Syrian counterparts. The key reason here is that rather than fighting the war for the Syrians, the Russians need to enable the Syrians to fight their own war.

Alas, the actual record of the Syrian security forces has been, according to Russian sources, checkered at best and the Russians are, reportedly, unimpressed. While the Syrians do have some elite combat units, they do not have high quality intelligence operatives. What is needed in this case is not just a good soldier (say, like a Russian paratrooper or a US Ranger), but a fully trained combatant and a fully trained intelligence officer, something similar to the CIA’s Special Activities Division or the Russian “Vympel” force. The kind of training needed to prepare for such a function is much more complex, costly and time-consuming than what it takes to train a good paratrooper or Ranger. My guess is that while the “Chechens” will, when needed, provide immediate support for the Syrians, they will also have a long-term role in organizing an effective counter-terrorist/counter-insurgency force.

Of course, I might be wrong. If I am, then the other reason why these two battalions have been sent to Syria is to directly participate in combat operations against the Takfiris. We know that Putin sent some secret letter to Iranian President Rouhani. Could it be to coordinate a surge in Russian and Iranian operations in Syria? If so, then sending in the “Chechen” special forces would make sense, especially to keep the Turks at bay if and when needed.

Whatever may be the case, the decision to send in the “Chechens” is clearly a major development and a sign that something important is being prepared.

P.S. Ramzan Kadyrov has issued a denial saying that there are no battalions “West” and “East” in Chechnia that is TECHNICALLY true since these two battalions have now been included in the 8th mountain and 18th motor-rifle brigades. It is also true that the original commanders of these forces have been replaced, but the operators still exist and Kadyrov has admitted that they were already in Syria.

• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: Chechens, Russia, Syria 
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  1. Special Operations Forces (SOF) are too expensive to be used merely as guards or the normal battle line. They are normally used offensively for purposes which regular forces are not appropriate and operate in small groups, usually incognito.

    It would be interesting to learn what SOF are being used for in Syria.

  2. Marcus says:

    Second, Ramzan Kadyrov has been pouring huge resources, with the full support of Putin, of course, into the creation of a unique special forces training facility in Chechnia where special operators from all over Russia are coming to learn, teach and share their experience.

    He has no resources, only loot from Russian taxpayers funneled to him by Putin kleptocracy.

    • Replies: @5371
    , @Anonymous
  3. Or maybe they could send General Ryabko’s trainees:

  4. 5371 says:

    WTF happened to you?

    • Replies: @Marcus
  5. Sean says:

    The Assad family dictatorship is running out of Lebanese, who are getting less keen on going to fight in Syria; too many Syrians to kill and too many Lebanese have not come back. You cannot fight a civil war with foreign troops and claim any kind of legitimacy.

    They won’t go anywhere near the front lines, so the flower of Chechen soldiery are being brought in to rape, torture, mutilate and kill in various horrific ways undefended women and children foolish enough to not leave territory captured from the rebels. These blowtouch-welding Chechin palladins will pretend to be Syrian rebels of course. Then the Russians will call in the international press and say ” Oh dear, look what the foreign jihadis did before they left”. What else do you expect from people who cleared paths through German minefields in WW2 by herding their own civilians through them at gunpoint

    • Replies: @5371
    , @Marcus
    , @L.K
  6. Talha says:

    First – Chechens!!!

    Second – Huh???
    “Chechen Republic leader Ramzan Kadyrov said Thursday that there are no battalions dubbed Vostok (East in Russian) and Zapad (West in Russian) in Chechen Republic that have been reportedly sent to Syria.”

    Third –

    For example, the so-called “Muslim battalion” played a key role in the invasion of Afghanistan.

    I remember speaking to a Chechen veteran of the Afghan War; guy sold me my first car. He said he and many of his fellows would miss on purpose when firing on the Mujahideen because they did not feel right in invading a fellow Muslim country. He said if officers were near they would pretend to shoot closer to the target, but simply aim a bit too high. That, even at the risk of death or injury to themselves from Afghans who were firing on them just as they would on anyone wearing a Russian uniform. I already had a respect for Chechens, that put them over the top.


  7. Marcus says:

    I usually side with Russia, doesn’t mean I have to agree with everything Putin does.

  8. Marcus says:

    Chechens are vermin even by Muslim standards, and Putin lets them terrorize ordinary Russians with impunity.

  9. @Talha

    Betcha it was a used car.
    Those Chechens, always sending us their best!

    • Replies: @Talha
  10. For anyone with a desire to understand, even vaguely, the long-lived Chechen-Russian symbiosis, one word: LERMONTOV.

    That even includes the few Russians who have not read or understood their own literature.

    Great question for Señor Putin in one of his open interviews–what does he see in Lermontov relevant to the present times?

    • Replies: @Jus' Sayin'...
  11. Talha says:

    Hey FT,

    Nope it was a new Pontiac grand am – worked great until somebody hit it.


  12. Talha says:

    Hey Marcus,

    Some Chechens are vermin and some are awesome – I’m talking the more traditional ones – lime the ones in that photo. Sorry, I don’t buy this ‘Russians being terrorized’ business; when they’ve had enough they’ll let them know – Cossacks anyone? They aren’t like Western Europeans.


    • Replies: @Marcus
  13. 5371 says:

    You seem to take the foolish fantasy about Chechen supermen even more seriously than the Saker, just adding a minus sign. Enjoy your defeat, loser.

    • Replies: @Sean
  14. Marcus says:

    Did you watch the video? They’re much more powerful there than Cosa nostra ever was in the US (and without any of the class): basically more more organized and heavily armed version of American “gangstas” who operate with government approval. Berezovsky used them as enforcers before Putin. The so called “Russian mafia” is dominated Caucasians and some Jews.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Avery
  15. Talha says:

    Hey Marcus,

    Yes I did. Reminded me a bit of this (inflated egos showing off):

    Two points:
    1) Like you mentioned, they are powerful through the collusion of the state apparatus – not despite it. If they operate within bounds, all is OK – if they cross the line…
    2) Whenever I praise Chechens, I hardly have ethnic-narco-thugs in mind, you must know that by now. I’m talking about their qualities as a tough and brave, spiritual people.


    • Replies: @Marcus
  16. Marcus says:

    Well, the more responsible Chechens certainly have their work cut out for them if they want to change their people’s reputation: between mafia and jihadis, it doesn’t look good. Maybe over time they can become regarded like the Tatars are, certainly hope so to avoid future conflicts. At least you didn’t excuse their behavior because they’re fellow Muslims like some people I’ve talked to.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @RadicalCenter
  17. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    LMFAO, awesome alternative place for a destination wedding!

  18. Marcus says:

    Did the Union have no legitimacy during the American War between the States then? They used thousands of FOB German and Irish soldiers.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  19. Talha says:

    Hey Marcus,

    Yes – the popular culture reputation is not good (especially in any movie I have come across). It is a positive thing to have your people reputed to be no-nonsense and tough; but nothing good about being known as criminals, thugs and bullies.

    There is no defense for the indefensible. When you come again across the Muslims who defend this nonsense, remind them of this:
    “The Messenger of God (pbuh) said, ‘Support your brother whether he is an oppressor or is being oppressed.’ It was asked, ‘O Messenger of God, we help the one being oppressed but how do we help an oppressor?’ The Prophet (pbuh) said, ‘By seizing his hand*.’” -reported in Muslim and Bukhari

    They should be ashamed to support (or even be ambivalent about) such behavior – that tribal thinking is holding us back, big-time.


    *In a variant, he replied: “By restraining him or preventing him from committing injustice – that is how you support him.”

  20. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    There’s been some talk lately about who’s gonna do the dirty work in Syria. You don’t win these kinds of wars by bombing only, and don’t forget that two Russian nurses were just killed. There are possibly more dead that are being disclosed. Do Russians want to send in regular troops to die on the ground?

    Or do they want to do like Karaganov says – let Sunnis kill other Sunnis in the Middle East, while Russians just bomb from above, that way they don’t come to Russia. Sounds a bit familiar.

  21. Sean says:

    They may have courage but they lack discipline and technical skill and are therefore not soldiers, but woman-stealing murderers as Russians, having been victims of Chechen depredations for centuries, well know to be worthless except for terror attacks on the helpless.

    • Replies: @L.K
  22. Avery says:

    {Did you watch the video?}

    The video is shot in Grozny.
    You are right that the Kadyrov clan is far more powerful: they are the local government, not just an organized crime family.
    From what I know, Moscow lets Kadyrov run Chechnya as his personal fiefdom, as long as he keeps wiping out Islamists and stays loyal to Moscow.

    During the last Chechen war Putin somehow turned a section of Chechens, including the Kadyrov clan, and they fiercely fought fellow (Islamist) Chechens and pretty much wiped them out. Chechnya is fairly peaceful now. Moscow spent $billions to rebuild Grozny, including a massive new mosque.

    It’s a Devil’s bargain.
    I think Putin and Moscow know that Kadyrov and other (Muslim) North Caucasus republics and their leaders can’t be fully trusted, but Moscow has bigger global headaches (e.g. Ukraine/Novorossya, Syria,….), and needs to keep a lid on Islamists in its Southern republics.

    And realistically, what can Moscow do?
    Chechens are indigenous to Chechnya: Moscow can’t just force them to move out. It’s their land.

    And Moscow can’t let Chechnya go independent, because then it will become an Islamist terrorist base right on Russia’s border. A foreign statelet that Moscow can have no control over.
    It’s a mess either way.

    At least that’s how I see it as a non-Russian.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    , @Fredrik
  23. “To make a long story short: not only are these battalions known for their amazing courage and skills, their appearance often sends the opposing forces into a panic.”

    How to recognize genuine Russian propaganda. Saker, you are nearly as tediously transparent as the MSM.

  24. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    It has propaganda value and embellishes Kadyrov’s position as a relevant player. The actual military value of their participation will probably be negligible.

  25. @Marcus

    I love these people! I recognized lezginka music at the beginning of the video and stayed for the dancing. In my day many years ago I could dance a fair lezginka although my ancestry is straight northwest European. (note the men are imitating eagles and the girls/women more gentle birds). I wish my fellow White, native-born Americans were a bit more like this. Only pussies get pushed around like we’ve been in our own country.

    • Replies: @Marcus
    , @RadicalCenter
  26. @E. A. Costa

    But read the Nabakov translation. Tolstoy’s Sketches and his novella, Haji Murad, are also good and insightful reads.

  27. A question for the Saker: Isn’t it risky for Russia, the easternmost bulwark of Orthodox Christianity, to rely so much on Mohammedan irregulars? When the Soviets were running things as a materialist, e.g., anti-religious and irreligious game, this may have been a good strategy. But what about now?

  28. @Talha

    Let’s see, they lied and broke their oath to the Russian people and the people training and paying them, then they let people kill or be killed based on their religion.

    Yes, how admirable.

    You really are a muslim alright.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Talha
  29. @Marcus

    Actually, Marcus, he did. Tasha said that he respected chechens even more because they let people kill and be killed because of their religion, leaving Christian Russians to die or be injured without the help they were promised by their Chechen “allies”.

    The guy can speak of pontiacs all he wants, he is a savage and a perfect example of why we’ll shouldn’t let muslims into our countries.

    He respects muslims who let Christians die to avoid firing on other muslims. Wonder what he would say if we stated that Christians should not kill other Christians, especially not to save or benefit muslims, and should let muslims die in order to avoid harming Christians on the other side of a battle. Somehow I don’t think he’d be okay with that.

    • Replies: @Talha
  30. Marcus says:
    @Jus' Sayin'...

    You wish white Americans were more like n_rs?

  31. @Marcus

    Yes, it was wrong to murder so many fellow white men in order to serve northern commercial interests, or in order to stop the enslavement of africans, the latter being the bullshit reason given for the invasion of the south to the schmucks on the ground.

    Yes, it was wrong to bring in and pay white men form other lands to kill white men here, benefitting African animals who went on kill, rape, rob, terrorize, and make life Hell for tens of millions of white people, and now Hispanics and Asian people too, in the century and a half since.

  32. Kirt says:

    What wild and crazy fun – that’s the way weddings should be celebrated! The music sounds Middle Eastern. Chechens look like Armenians. Seems to me I read some place that basically they are Armenians, but split off from the main group by converting to Islam while most Armenians remained Christian. Anybody know if that’s true?

    • Replies: @Avery
  33. @Avery

    Russia should absolutely eradicate the chechens. If sensible and realistic men were running the USA, our government would either stand aside and cheer or even affirmatively help Russia.

    • Replies: @Marcus
    , @L.K
    , @Hunsdon
  34. @Jus' Sayin'...

    But they don’t “love” us, fool. Admire their bravery and martial prowess if you will, but the chechens can never be trusted or admired and should be eradicated.

  35. Marcus says:

    Stalin for all his ruthlessness didn’t annihilate them when he had the chance, now Russians are suffering for it. The reasoning for keeping Chechnya in Russia is that it will stop spread of terrorism, but that seems absurd, just expel them all to their homeland (they expelled all ethnic Russians from Chechnya, so it’s only fair) and bomb them when they try to export terrorism.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    , @L.K
  36. Avery says:

    {Anybody know if that’s true?}

    I don’t know everything about my ancestors’ history, but haven’t heard that one. Looking like one another is not a reliable method to tell who is whose ancestor.

    Armenians officially adopted Christianity in 301AD, about 1,700 years ago.
    The only Armenians who are openly Muslim are Hamshen Armenians (living near Black Sea). They were forcibly converted by nomad Muslim Turk invaders from East and Central Asia when they invaded Armenian Highlands and Asia Minor around 1,000AD. There are also an unknown number of hidden Islamized Armenians in Turkey.

    There is no record in Armenian history about some splitting off and going to Chechnya. Armenians and Chechens are distinct peoples.
    It is possible that 1,000s of years ago when pro-Armenian groupings migrated to Armenian Highlands and South Caucasus, settled down, and coalesced to what became the Armenian people, some groups may have gone on to North Caucasus and settled there. But that’s pre-history: hard to tell who is who that far back.

    • Replies: @Talha
  37. Talha says:

    Hey RC,

    Yeah – it’s called moral principles. You don’t participate in an invading force for your “masters” and kill your brothers in faith for Communism. If Christians want to level each other’s cities for that stupidity – go for it. Take it up with God when you see Him and explain you were just “following orders” and see if that flies.

    These are the rights of brotherhood; you don’t spill each other’s blood for an unjust cause.


  38. Talha says:


    I’m the savage? You are calling for extermination of Chechens in their native land; don’t front as if you are “civilized” because you have air-conditioning and wear ties. You have the mentality of the Mongol Horde – only you wipe you backside with toilet paper.

    Wonder what he would say if we stated that Christians should not kill other Christians…

    They shouldn’t – what do they teach you guys in church? I’d be fine with it – stay the hell out of Muslim lands and you won’t put yourselves in those predicaments. Russians were invaders into Afghanistan – I don’t know of a single Muslim scholar that did not consider it a legitimate jihad; your opinion on it is irrelevant. Anyone wearing a Russian uniform was open game. If you don’t understand that, watch ‘Red Dawn’ – the original. Then watch it again. I’m not asking for any – ANY – non-Muslim intervention in our wars.

    May God bless the Afghans that fought the Russian invasion and may He grant even a higher rank for the Muslims on the other side that lost their lives while holding their hands back from harming their brothers in faith.


  39. L.K says:

    Only a depraved asshole would write about eradicating a Nation from their homeland.

    Your beloved Zamerica supported Chechen separatists in the wars in the Caucasus in order to bring harm to Russia, just like your depraved country, a country that has been at war for more than 90% of its historical existence, wars of choice and empire, has been in bed with radical Islam(Salafism/Waahabism) for many decades. The UK for even longer.

    U.S. Supported Chechen Terrorists

    The U.S. is the world’s largest sponsor of terror;

    The director of the National Security Agency under Ronald Reagan – Lt. General William Odom said:

    By any measure the US has long used terrorism. In ‘78-79 the Senate was trying to pass a law against international terrorism – in every version they produced, the lawyers said the US would be in violation.

    The Washington Post reported in 2010:

    The United States has long been an exporter of terrorism, according to a secret CIA analysis released Wednesday by the Web site WikiLeaks.

    The Chechens’ American friends

    Allegations are even being made in Russia that the west itself is somehow behind the Chechen rebellion, and that the purpose of such support is to weaken Russia, and to drive her out of the Caucasus. The fact that the Chechens are believed to use as a base the Pankisi gorge in neighbouring Georgia – a country which aspires to join Nato, has an extremely pro-American government, and where the US already has a significant military presence – only encourages such speculation. Putin himself even seemed to lend credence to the idea in his interview with foreign journalists on Monday.

    Chechen Terrorists and the Neocons

    You assholes and your allies and client states have created all these radical groups, the various al-Ciada outfits, the people who later became the Taliban, ISIS/DAESH, etc..

    In Lybia, some of the key ‘rebel’ fighters were al-qaeda linked or members.

    In Syria the situation is even much worse.
    How the US Armed-up Syrian Jihadists

    …a former Green Beret writes of America’s covert and clandestine programs to train and arm Syrian insurgents, “they know we are just training the next generation of jihadis

    Then you scumbags have the gall to talk about muslim savages and what not!!
    Take a hard look in the mirror first!

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  40. Talha says:

    And the onus is on you to prove that they made an ‘oath’ to invade other countries as part of some Communist imperialist army and not simply to defend Russian territory. From what I remember, perhaps Avery can correct me, there was mandatory conscription for military-age males in Soviet times – so it’s not like they went to some recruitment center to sign up.

  41. L.K says:

    Idiot. Zusa is the biggest exporter of terrorism in the world and your government covertly supported the Chechen insurgents.

    • Replies: @RobinG
    , @Sean
    , @Marcus
  42. @Talha

    Sure, Talha, you want muslims to favor muslims, at the expensive of nonmuslims’ lives, only when doing so undermines communism.


    You are one of the more effective and more (initially) believable apologists for the worshippers of the mentally ill pedophile “prophet”, Disgrace be upon him.

    We both know damn well that if you and your coreligionists had the numbers he explained in the USA, I and the rest of the Unz commenters wouldn’t be free to write and speak and live as we wish.

    • Replies: @Talha
  43. @Talha

    I do agree with you that Christians should not be killing each other.

    I also would be glad if all Christians, indeed all nonmuslims, would unite to eradicate Islam enforce it enslaves, impoverishes, and harms us all.

  44. L.K says:

    Sean, what universe do u inhabit? Trollstam?

    Btw, only a complete idiot or LIAR could write the following crap about Chechen troops:
    ‘lack discipline and technical skill and are therefore not soldiers’.

    • Replies: @Sean
  45. Talha says:

    Yo Avery,

    A note on Armenian history. Prof. David Nicolle writes that Armenian heavy cavalry and archers (apparently those were their forte) were recorded to have participated on the Muslim side against Byzantines from the earliest centuries. Not surprising actually, the Byzantine policy against variant Christian sects was horrendously short-sighted. The Battle of Manzikert (and subsequent loss of Anatolia) is basically the upshot of centuries of accumulated folly on their borderlands.

    With Chechens, I’ve seen photos where some of them look like they could be Kurdish or Armenian and some where they could easily be Danish or Belarussian.


    • Replies: @Sean
  46. Talha says:

    Hey RC,

    Uh no – you don’t get to tell me what I am stating. Let me make it clear…

    Muslims should not be killing anyone in an unjust cause (an invasion of a sovereign country under international law being one of them) – especially their Muslim brethren. The fact that Chechen Muslims were forced to invade Afghanistan (you can go ahead and correct me if you have evidence that the Red Army had an easy way to get on the ‘conscientious objector’ track – LOL) meant that they were part of an aggressing army. The fact that some of them held themselves back from harming their fellow brothers (even risking limb and life) is an honorable thing.


    You’ve advocated genocide against Muslims on multiple occasions and on multiple ethnic fronts; who cares what you believe?

    Anybody who thinks that the USA with a super-majority Muslim population will operate exactly like it does today is living a pipe dream. Of course anybody who thinks that the USA with a super-majority Jewish or Mormon population will operate exactly like it does today is also living a pipe dream.


  47. RobinG says:

    Truth. Him and Sean and RC. But where does idiot leave off, and ugly begin?

  48. Sean says:

    They are not for front line combat, nor are the Chechen going to Syria for behind the lines suicide missions a la North Korean Commandos. Photos of these units clearly show they are not soldiers and include many men too old to fight anyone who can fight back. They are a death squad for false flag attack a la the 90’s Algerian civil war against the majority by state terror.

  49. Sean says:

    Assad the elder drove the US and Israel out of Lebanon with Shia suicide bombings, then his son tried the same trick against the US soldiers (real soldiers) in Iraq Syria was the conduit through which the foreign suicide bombers entered Iraq to kill American). Bashir Assad wanted to defend himself against an immanent American attack, which was crap analysis because the US were uninterested in him. However his proxy terrorist didn’t just go for the US occupation force, they began attacking the Sunni who responded in kind and it turned Iraq into a bloodbath Sunni-Shia civil war. Then the Sunni radicals that had been created in Iraq by Assad the younger;s meddling became a major force in the ciil war. The Russians were laughing up their sleeve as US soldiers were being killed by the thousands by their pal Assad’s proxy killers, well they are not laughing now. Their Billy the Puppet regime is going to lose.

    • Replies: @Rudel
  50. Sean says:

    Muslims in that part of the world have been kidnapping pretty northern Euro women (boys too) as sex slaves for a long time.

    Vlad the Impaler was a prisoner of the Turks as a boy.

    • Replies: @Talha
  51. Hunsdon says:

    What kind of monster are you? Exterminate, exterminate, it’s like you’re a Dalek from a bad Dr Who episode.

    Russia has played a smart card in Chechnya: “Let the Chechens handle it.” They bought the Kadyrovs fair and square, and, so far at least, the Kadyrovs have been true to their salt (to use an old Great Game-ism). Chechnya today ain’t nothing like late 90s Chechnya, and the change is all for the better.

    • Replies: @Marcus
  52. L.K says:

    I had missed this ‘gem’ of a post by you, Sean;

    You give trolling and lying an entire new dimension.

    Contrary to your many pathetic lies;

    – The vast majority of the troops fighting for Syria are SYRIANS; mostly Sunni Syrians.
    They are the real moderates. There are also Christian, Alawite, Druze and Shia Syrians, which reflects Syria’s multi-confessional and secular society.

    A very large proportion of the ‘Syrian rebels’ is made up of foreign fighters from over 90 countries. Not long ago, a US senate military committee put the number of foreign ‘rebels’ at nearly 40,000. Large numbers of foreign jihadis were already present in Syria since the summer of 2012. Needless to say both the foreign as well as the syrian jihadists have been fighting only bc they are being heavily funded by various foreign powers under the US umbrella.

    – President Assad has a LOT of popular support. More than most Western leaders.

    – As for ‘Lebanese’ troops, you must have been referring to Hezbollah.
    Even serious Israeli analysts have determined that Hezb’s military wing is much larger and better armed today than back in 06, when just a fraction of their men was enough to defeat the idf cowards. Not to mention all the experience gained in Syria and how battle-hardened their men have become. From the biased and pro-Israel wikipedia:

    Israeli military officials and analysts have also drawn attention to the experience and weaponry the group would have gained from the involvement of thousands of its fighters in the Syrian Civil War. “This kind of experience cannot be bought,” said Gabi Siboni, director of the military and strategic affairs program at the Institute for National Security Studies at Tel Aviv University. “It is an additional factor that we will have to deal with. There is no replacement for experience, and it is not to be scoffed at.”[184]

    As I write these lines they are helping the SAA eliminate the last of your jihadi heroes from Aleppo.

    You are an idiot and a liar… totally clueless as to what is happening in Syria.

    • Replies: @Sean
  53. One word: Gurkas.

    By the way, the British were and still are supporting Wahhabist Chechens (mostly terrorists) against Chechyna and the Russian Federation.

    Part of their alignment with the Saudis, Qataris, and such. Thus the Chechens in ISIS in Syria, that the RF Chechen special forces will likely hunt down.

    Moreover, it is clear that the Chechens (not from Chechnya) that the CIA brought to the US and who bombed the Boston Marathon were part of a like program, also directed against the Russians.

    More ancient history: Wahhabist Chechens were recruited to fight with Albanians against Yugoslavia. Britain, the US, and even Israel looked on with approval.

    Do y’all really believe Russians have as short memories as y’all seem to?

  54. Marcus says:

    I’ll readily admit the US (and our Anglo cousins) has played a shameful role in supporting Muslims against Christians and others I believe the past.

  55. Marcus says:

    Not many people deserve to be exterminated, but Chechens certainly qualify, they combine the worst aspects of blacks and Arabs, produce nothing but crime and terrorism. Putin is using them as mafia enforcers and reallocating billions of dollars from Russian taxpayers to turn Grozny into mini-Dubai. Disgusting.
    ETA: Russians I’ve talked to say Azeris are actually worse, I’m sure Avery will vouch for this.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  56. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Some Chechens have light coloring (grey eyes, light brown hair), it is their distinct racial look and has nothing to do with any bride kidnappings (btw, most of the “kidnapped” Chechen brides historically have been Chechen / of Caucasus descent anyway, they used to be very isolated and live in clans). Color wise some of them can pass for a certain type of N.European. Why it’s not because of the admixture of foreigners….? Because Chechens don’t intermix with other races and because these light skinned Chechens still retain the distinct Caucausus features, such a specific looking nose, a specific looking upper face that only the so called “kavkaztsi” have. In case of admixture, those features would be either lost or diminished.

  57. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    With that sort of ethics, somebody could conjure up an equally convincing and rational justification to exterminate the likes of you, Marcus.

    • Replies: @Marcus
    , @RadicalCenter
  58. @Marcus

    This cant be real. It got to be from a shitty soap opera……

    If its real….. These people are scum. They try to imitate the class of westerners but mess it all up with their garbage tribal traditions.

    • Replies: @Fredrik
  59. Marcus says:

    In your view, what should be done with a people like Chechens who produce nothing but crime and terrorism?

  60. Talha says:

    Hey Sean,

    We’re talking about Chechens here so let’s get factual…
    1) Historically and geographically speaking, Chechens were never part of the Tatar Khanates. They were a part of the Safavid Empire when they started turning towards Islam, and then annexed by the conquests of the Russian Tsars.
    2) Pretty White women were also being sold by the Varangian Rus for centuries to both Byzantium and Muslim lands – until they decided to quit pretty late in the game:
    “Also valued in the East were the slaves that the Rus captured from among the Eastern European peoples—Slavs, from which English has derived the word slave. According to the itinerant geographer Ibn Hawkal, writing in 977, the Rus slave trade ran “from Spain to Egypt.””

    “In addition, Kiev also traded with Central and West Asia, establishing commercial relations with the Islamic Empire, supplying slaves from Russia and Central Asia to the Abbasid Caliphate in Baghdad.”
    World History: Journeys from Past to Present

    “Ibn Hawqal, an Arab geographer, described a Viking slave trade in 977 A.D. that extended across the Mediterranean from Spain to Egypt. Others recorded that slaves from northern Europe were funneled from Scandinavia through Russia to Byzantium and Baghdad…Some genetic studies, for example, suggest that a majority of Icelandic women are related to Scottish and Irish ancestors who likely were raid booty.” (Now there’s a detailed rendition of a White man selling a White woman to a Muslim merchant.)

    3) The Tatars did indeed do slave-raids into Russia and Tsar Ivan stopped them…hard with little mercy. Or have you never read what happened to Kazan and a few other key Tatar cities and their populations?

    The only thing Chechens (also other Caucasians, etc.) have been historically (we’re talking pre-20th century) guilty of is kicking out the Tsar’s armies and Russian settlers from their lands and trying to establish their own sovereign state within the Caucasus. You can feel free to cite to me any instance of when they went up the Volga to raid Moscow or St. Petersburg or Kiev. Maybe the only other thing they are guilty of is surviving Stalin’s attempt to send their entire population to a miserable cold grave:

    As far as the current Chechens; I agree with Marcus in that far too many of them are involved in extremist ideology or in international crime.


    • Replies: @Sean
    , @RadicalCenter
  61. L Garou says:

    They’re going there to neutralize the US special-operations forces..

  62. Sean says:

    You can feel free to cite to me any instance of when they went up the Volga to raid Moscow or St. Petersburg or Kiev.

    Peter Turchin says they did just that by luring thousands of Russians to the north Caucuses with the offer of a lucrative job, then enslaving them.

    • Replies: @Talha
  63. @L.K

    I oppose the salvages who are born in USA or have white skin, too, and I’ve actively opposed every us military intervention in my adult lifetime save one. Bother reading my other comments and you’d know that.

    I stand by the view that Islam is inherently savage and that nonmuslims are never safe with large numbers of muslims in or near their (nonmuslims’) lands.

    To Hell with islam.

  64. @Anonymous

    Doesn’t seem like muslims have ever had trouble coming up with a justification for subjugating, torturing or killing nonmuslims for over a millennium now.

    Notice we haven’t called for exterminating or driving away the many other races and religious groupings in the world, because islam is INHERENTLY a uniquely incorrigibly cruel, intolerant, dangerous and expansionist movement.

    • Agree: Ace
  65. @Talha

    Stalin got that one right. Something I never say, LOL.

    Russia / USSR should have driven out the Chechens (and for that matter, never should let the Tatars return to the Crimea).

    • Replies: @Talha
  66. Talha says:

    Hey Sean,

    Found your source:
    “Those who had wealthy relatives were held for ransom, while the majority was put to work in agriculture and construction. Some people were lured into North Caucuses from as far away as St. Petersburg and Moscow with promises of a lucrative job. It is not known how many people were enslaved, but the count is in the many thousands.”

    I thought I was clear that I was talking about pre-modern Chechens. Mr. Churchin is obviously talking about the Wahabbised Chechen extremists of modern times (the late 90’s).

    Luring, capturing and ransoming gullible Russians by criminal elements is not the same as what the Tatars did – not by a long shot.


  67. Sean says:

    There are Russian infantry in Syria, which hardly suggests Assad’s large army of Syrians includes many troops he can count on. It is true that the Russians and the Iranian cannon fodder with Russian artillery are winning taking territory from the rebels, but that is mainly because they have not been given US anti aircraft weapons which would make short work of the primitive Russian airplanes. but they don’t need rear-area security police to control, a population sympathetic to Assad. The Jihadis will all leave as the rebel areas being taken, so the Russians will win areas that contain almost entirely Syrian civilians , and the Chachens are brought in for false flag attacks , and than to terrorise these helpless defenceless people for the mortal sin of not wanting to be ruled by a family of murdering puppets.

    Assad’s dad used Hezbollah to drive the Israelis out of Lebanon and then, masquerading as “Islamic Jihad”, to kill hundred of US marines, to great effect. Then Assad junior facilitated the use of Syria by foreign suicide bombers heading for Iraq. Assad wanted to drive the US out by terrorism, an objective his Russian masters no doubt supported. But it turned into an Iraqi Shia-Sunni was and the Sunni radicals were irrepressible, gradually crossing into the Syrian Civil war which was partly a response to Assad junior’s economic austerity measures.

    Its just not that easy to overthrow even a secular Arab country with infiltation. Western intelligence and the Saudis couldn’t do it in South Yemen. The west has been neutral in all this, which is mainly a non religous Arab persian or Saudi- Iran state quarrel not an internal Syrian secular- verses Islamicist one. But at bottom why should the US support Russian client Assad; because his political incompetence and facilitating of the jihadist killing of US soldiers in Iraq blew up in his face?

    • Replies: @Marcus
    , @NoseytheDuke
  68. Talha says:

    Stalin got that one right.

    Apparently he did not, they are still alive and kicking:
    “…there was one nation which would not give in, would not acquire the mental habits of submission–and not just individual rebels among them, but the whole nation to a man. These were the Chechens…” – Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Russia / USSR should have driven out the Chechens

    Ah yes, like the Circassians:

    Surprise, surprise yet another notch on your belt for advocating genocide.

    Notice we haven’t called for exterminating or driving away the many other races and religious groupings in the world

    Read your own posts, chief.


  69. Marcus says:

    “primitive Russian airplanes.”
    You can’t really be this stupid. What does NATO have that matches the SU-34 or SU-35?? Maybe the F-22. And the TA-50 will be the premier fifth generation fighter.

    • Replies: @Sean
    , @5371
  70. @Sean

    You appear to have an inclination towards the writing of fiction, if not the talent.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Sean
    , @L.K
  71. Max Payne says:

    We know that Putin sent some secret letter to Iranian President Rouhani. Could it be to coordinate a surge in Russian and Iranian operations in Syria?

    These Russian Chechen units are probably counter-SOF, they’re going to try to capture a US SOF operator and hand him to the Iranians. To counter all that support the US seems to pour on the Islamists (because freedom).

    America can blackout somethings from the US media but not a captured soldier being paraded around and broadcasted on CCTV, BBC, and PressTV.

  72. Anonymous [AKA "Russian Troll"] says:

    So says the american state department division of propaganda

  73. Talha says:

    In hindsight, I’ve realized I’m taking some people far, far too seriously. I sometimes feel obligated to respond even though I doubt it will have any affect on the person. Yet, at least I can get my perspective out there…but then I think; wait – what if nobody else is taking the person seriously either and I’m basically having a waltz on my own?

    This internet business is a strange beast indeed…


    • Replies: @Sean
  74. Minds already made up are really hard to change anyway and we are all so conditioned in oh so many ways.

    Probably it is us who are the strange beasts but getting your perspective out there matters as a form of giving ones self-expression “as in yonder valley the myrtle breathes its fragrance into space” … Gibran again ;o).

    • Replies: @Talha
  75. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Chechnya is mostly surrounded by Russian federal territories. A siege on it coupled with bombing valleys with crops would eliminate most of them. The rest in the mountains can be mopped up with search and destroy missions, and by drawing them out of the mountains and into the valleys to trap them like a roach motel.

    • Replies: @Ace
  76. Talha says:

    I’ve always loved Gibran – such amazing command of the English language; he plays it like an instrument.


  77. Sean says:

    The majority of Syrians are Sunni Arabs, what are you?

    • Replies: @Talha
  78. Sean says:

    The US tried to overthrow Castro and the Sandinistas, but couldn’t. Most pertinently, the Marxist government of South Yemen easily crushing a Western-Saudi attempt to destablise South Yemen with infiltrators is hardly irrelevant to assessing the claim that the rebellion against Assad is entirely due to foreign infiltrators backed by the Saudi and US governments. Fact is the US has not given the rebels anti aircraft weapons and Israel has not done anything (such as a military build up on the Golan that would draw off the syrian army) to help the rebels. This is primarily internal and secondarily Arab -Persia, if the US wanted Assad gone he would have been history.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  79. Talha says:

    Sunni – Pakistani origin.

    For the record – I have no love for Assad’s government (LK can attest to that) – and I also think supplying these guys with MANPADS is lunacy of the highest order.


    • Replies: @Sean
    , @Anonymous
  80. Fredrik says:

    Russia already moved the Chechens out once. Sure, Russia was called Soviet Union at the time but still. Look what happened in 1944.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Avery
  81. Talha says:

    Hey Fredrik,

    And they came back and even fiercer than before, again as Solzhenitsyn stated:
    “I would say that of all the special settler, the Chechens alone showed themsleves zeks in spirit. They had been treacherously snatched from their home, and from that day they believed in nothing.”,+and+from+that+day+they+believed+in+nothing+Solzhenitsyn&source=bl&ots=d1wxWKqp6V&sig=0oVJOHCRpzuztulppLqLG6XH7HI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjdmLzd_fHQAhVBlRQKHUPpB5wQ6AEIGzAA#v=onepage&q=They%20had%20been%20treacherously%20snatched%20from%20their%20home%2C%20and%20from%20that%20day%20they%20believed%20in%20nothing%20Solzhenitsyn&f=false

    You don’t brutalize a people like that and half-bury them. All those conditions did was make sure the fittest would survive – the Soviet Union literally took a tough, martial people and accelerated their evolution. As Alexandre Dumas wrote:
    “All these mountain fighters are fanatically brave, and whatever money they acquire is spent on weapons. A Chechen . . . may be literally in rags, but his sword, dagger, and gun are of the finest quality.”

    That Russia is different than this Russia – that Russia also killed off millions of Orthodox Christians.


    • Replies: @Avery
  82. Avery says:

    { Sure, Russia was called Soviet Union at the time but still. Look what happened in 1944.}

    Russia was not, quote, called Soviet Union: it _was_ Soviet Union.
    Russia was the largest of the 15 republics, but it was a union.
    Many in the Soviet leadership were in fact not Russian nor Slavic.
    Stalin himself was ethnic Georgian.
    His #1 henchman Beria, also Georgian.
    Longest surviving member of original Bolshevik cadre, Anastas Mikoyan – Armenian.
    And of course lots and lots of Jews in Bolshevik leadership.

    During Yeltsin admin, himself an ethnic Russian, there was a coup.
    The leader of the coup Ruslan Khasbulatov, Chairman of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the RSFSR/Russian Federation, is a Muslim Chechen.
    Contemplate that: the #2 man in RF was a Muslim Chechen.

    As to 1944 and Chechen exile:
    Stalin was supreme dictator until his death.
    He could do pretty much whatever he wanted to do.
    He murdered 1,000s of ethnic Russian/Slav high officers and generals prior to WW2.
    He murdered and exiled 100s of 1,000s of Soviet citizens to Siberia from all over the SU and all ethnicities during and after WW2, until his death in 1953. (including 1,000s of Armenians who had repatriated from to Armenia for all over the world).

    And during wartime, pretty much anything goes.
    UK and US deliberately firebombed Desden, a civilian target: to terrorize Germans.
    US nuked 2 civilian targets in Japan.

    Today is not 1944.
    Stalin exiled Chechens to other parts of Soviet Union at the time.
    Most were repatriated back to Chechnya, of course.

    Where exactly is Moscow going to exile Chechens today, even if Moscow wanted to?
    RF is not USSR and today is not 1944.

  83. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Right, anti-aircraft weapons are the decisive weapons, and they haven’t been supplied to the rebels. They were what defeated the Soviets in Afghanistan.

    • Replies: @5371
  84. Sean says:

    The Saudis are vociferous in their complaints about the treatment of the Arab minority in Iran, even though that minority is Shia.

    Strong as the US is, it cannot afford to let the Russians keep going and show the world that Russia counts for more than the US. It’s a zero sum game. The only thing that will stop the Russians in Syria is their planes being shot out of the sky.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Anonymous
    , @Marcus
  85. Avery says:

    {that Russia also killed off millions of Orthodox Christians.}

    Yo, Talha:

    Murdered millions of Orthodox Christians is correct.
    But it was not Russia: it was the Bolsheviks, anti-Christian heathens.

    • Replies: @Talha
  86. Talha says:

    Hey Sean,

    The Saudis are a lot of things – honestly, who cares what they say. They do a hell of a lot of posturing. If they cared a whit about Arabs, they wouldn’t be bombing Yemen to pieces.

    Strong as the US is, it cannot afford to let the Russians keep going and show the world that Russia counts for more than the US.

    The US counts for more than Russia without any military interference – this is a question of economic influence and pure statistics – people listen to Kanye West in S. Korea. But this is a self-fulfilling prophecy; the more the US pushes and bullies, the more it will turn people to other spheres of influence; Pakistan is a case study on this question.

    The only thing that will stop the Russians in Syria is their planes being shot out of the sky.

    I will ask a similar question I asked on another thread; please list (at least) 25 US cities (in order of preference) that you want turned into radioactive dust in order to safe-guard the sovereignty of Muslim extremists in Eastern Syria.


    • Replies: @Sean
  87. Avery says:

    {We shall see how the baby killer pilots do now.}

    The baby killers are your cannibal, throat-cutting Islamist terrorist buddies.
    And regarding the Neocon disinformation and propaganda mouthpiece’s headline:
    [Congress just gave Trump the authority to send surface-to-air missiles to Syrian fighters]

    The actual headline should be: [Congress, just gave Trump authority to send surface-to-air missiles to ISIS cannibals, throat-cutters, slavers, baby-killing filthy pigs].

    (Trump will ignore the so-called ‘authorization’)

    And despite the headlines, the cannibals have had manpads since day 1.
    Has not made a difference.
    ISIS Manpads brought down 2-3 Syrian AF ancient MIGs.
    And 1 or 2 RuAF helicopter gunships.
    Russian AF jets fly too high for manpads.
    If ISIS/NATO could bring down RuAF jets with manpads, they wouldn’t recruit Turkey to shoot-down an Su-24 with TuAF F-16s.

    And if need be, Russian AF will bomb the s___ out of ISIS cannibals from stand-off Tu-95s, Tu-160s, and Kalibr cruise-missiles from the Caspian Sea.

    The cowardly ISIS scum have nowhere to hide: death will come from way up. The cowards are shaving their filthy, lice infested beards and fleeing Aleppo. Aleppo is near 95% liberated from terrorist vermin.

    On to Raqqa glorious Syrian Arab Army.

  88. Talha says:

    Yo Avery,

    Correction acknowledged – thanks for pointing out the difference between the USSR and Russia. Back in the 80’s nobody cared about the difference; it was all one and the same – but it is not really fair to Russians to smear them with the crimes of the USSR leadership.


  89. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I’m not sure a Trump admin would give Stingers to the rebels. The CIA would have to have compromising info on Trump to twist his arm into doing so, or run a rogue operation. Shooting down Russian planes with Stingers would stop the Russian advance in Syria, and Russia would not respond directly to the US as it’s too weak to do so. It would likely intensify the war in the Ukraine in response.

  90. Marcus says:

    The US has no stake in that situation, period. Saudi, Israel, and Turkey who back the rebels are much worse enemies than Iran or Russia. You’ll find that anti-US sentiment is much higher in Saudi and Turkey than it is Iran or Russia.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Fredrik
  91. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Saudi, Israel, Turkey, etc. are minor pests. Russia are vermin that won’t go away.

  92. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Why does a Pakistani Sunni chick like you spread your ass cheeks for Russian sausage? You like Russian sausage that much?

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Anonymous
  93. Talha says:

    Hola Senor,

    1) I’m not a chick – my name comes from a man dubbed the ‘Falcon of Uhud’:
    “Talhah distinguished himself at the Battle of Uhud by keeping close to Muhammad while most of the Muslim army fled. He protected Muhammad’s face from an arrow by taking the shot in his own hand, as a result of which two of his fingers were paralyzed. He was also hit twice in the head, and it was said that he suffered a total of 75 wounds in the battle.”

    2) I don’t like what Russia is doing in Syria to be honest, because I don’t like the Assad government any further than I can throw them. The problem is that their opposition is even worse in their conduct and morals so I certainly can’t support them. I just want an end to the fighting – way too many innocents have lost their lives.

    Read comment #38 if you think I have a love affair with anything Russia does.

    Peace. By the way, who gave you access to a keyboard?

    Whoops, there I go again, taking an anonymous post far more seriously than I should. I’m guessing the more common/perfunctory response is probably along the lines of:
    **** you ***hole, eat **** and die!

    • Replies: @L.K
  94. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    This is the sort of post that could really benefit from censorship- profanity-laden and content-free. Kudos to Talha for a polite response, though.

  95. Fredrik says:

    but the reason is that the population in both Iran and Russia is not behind its leadership.

    • Replies: @Avery
    , @JL
  96. 5371 says:

    You get your knowledge of history from Hollywood. LMAO

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  97. 5371 says:

    No, from long experience I can assure you that he really is this stupid.

    • Replies: @Marcus
  98. Avery says:

    {but the reason is that the population in both Iran and Russia is not behind its leadership.}

    Obviously, you are either completely clueless about Iran and Russia, or are spreading anti-Russia and anti-Iran disinformation.

    Putin popularity rating has not been below 60% since he ran for office.
    In 2016 it is 80%+.
    Highest 89%
    Lowest 60%+.

    And Rouhani won the 2013 IRI Presidential election 50.88% to 16.46%.
    Turnout was a very healthy 72%.

    In comparison, US POTUS election of 2016 had a turnout of 55%.

    Highest Obama approval 70%.
    Lowest Obama approval 40%.
    2016 US Congress approval rating ~15%.

    You have no clue about anything homes.

  99. JL says:

    If the population of Russia is not behind its leadership why does its president consistently poll at 80+% approval ratings?

  100. L.K says:

    “I don’t like what Russia is doing in Syria to be honest, because I don’t like the Assad government any further than I can throw them. The problem is that their opposition is even worse in their conduct and morals so I certainly can’t support them. I just want an end to the fighting – way too many innocents have lost their lives.”

    It is for comments such as this one, that you have deservedly earned the moniker ‘uncle’ talha.

    I, on the other hand, like very much what Russia is doing in Syria.

    Simply put, Russia is helping to uphold international law against an ILLEGAL proxy war against Syria, a war which, if successful, would have meant yet another client or failed state for the zio-us empire… and one which could be used to further destabilize the region and perhaps the Russian Caucasus too.

    As for the Soviet-Afghan war, it would not have happenned had Zusa & allies not armed Salafist fanatics and mercenaries in Afghanistan, ever thought of that?

    • Replies: @Talha
  101. L.K says:


    Sean’s ridiculous posts are indeed pure fantasy, look at this troll’s description of the war in Iraq!!!

    He’s probably a failed Hollywood script writer…. and it’s pretty damn hard to find even one hollywood movie these days with a reasonably well written script! haha

  102. Talha says:

    Dear Nephew,

    Russia is helping to uphold international law against an ILLEGAL proxy war against Syria

    Completely correct. I didn’t like Saddam at all, but I participated in the demonstrations against his violent removal. As to the details of Russia’s participation; they do not exhibit necessary caution with their concentration of firepower in civilian areas (and that has been the case historically). Are they better than, say, the Chinese? Sure.

    The Afghan War started due to an internal military coup by Communists (dubbed the ‘Saur Revolution’). Their introduction of radical modernization into a traditional society like Afghanistan was deemed a threat to the people – by the people. The Soviets invaded to help prop up that government against instability.

    That was seen as an invasion to prop up a military takeover by communists. As I said before; I don’t know of a single scholar or institution that did not deem it a legitimate jihad; including those that were Sufis, Salafis or anybody in between. And yes, Muslims from all around the world poured in to help them – as was their right upon us – and, no, they weren’t all fanatics.


    • Replies: @Marcus
    , @L.K
    , @NoseytheDuke
  103. Marcus says:

    “Afghanistan” is Hindu-Buddhist by right, restore Gandhara!

    • Replies: @Talha
  104. Talha says:

    Was…then the Sufis came – I’m not even going to provide a reference since cities like Herat, Kandahar, Balkh, etc. have been major spiritual centers for centuries.

    restore Gandhara

    You can try – I don’t think Buddhists want to tango with Afghans.


    • Replies: @Marcus
  105. Marcus says:

    The indigenous peoples gave a pretty stout resistance to the Arabs. It’s believed the Kafirstanis’ indigenous faith survived into the 20th century. Kandahar = Gandhara (or maybe Alexandria). Interesting to note that the notion of a real division between “Buddhism” and “Hinduism” is fairly modern. Muslim writers referred to Buddhist monks as “clean-shaven Brahmans.” It is true that Indian “Buddhism” was not durable compared to other traditions since it was so closely tied to monasticism.

    • Replies: @Talha
  106. Talha says:

    Hey Marcus,

    The indigenous peoples gave a pretty stout resistance to the Arabs.

    Darn right – they’re Afghans! But Islam came to be accepted by them as it was by the Chechens – at the hands of the Sufis. Kandahar is named after Alexander the Great, from what I recall.

    so closely tied to monasticism

    Doh! Not very fit from a selective advantage viewpoint – even if left completely alone, it will end up destroying itself.


    • Replies: @Marcus
  107. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    You’re scared of seeing Russians get blown out of the sky. Hence your nervous laughter.

  108. Marcus says:

    Yes, monasteries produced some great art and vital literature, but they were also a drain on resources and manpower in places that desperately needed those e.g. Byzantium. And they were inviting targets for plunderers of course.

    • Replies: @Talha
  109. Sean says:

    The British guarantee to Poland in 1939 was initially to cover its independence only, but when the Nazi Soviet pact was announced the British gave a guarantee of Poland’s territory, making war all but inevitable.

    Russia’s job in the New World Order is to fight China. But they are getting pally, and to teach the Ruskies that them making a one with China is not acceptable you will see Trump do the following things.
    1. Cut off technology transfers to China
    2. Increase prohibition of technology transfer to Russia (which has none of it’s own even in oil resource exploitation ).
    3. Demonstrate to the Russians that their planes are pathetically vulnerable to US weapons in the hands of people without underwear, though this is not perhaps so surprising, because Russian soldiers had no socks until relatively recently.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @L.K
    , @Anonymous
  110. Talha says:

    their planes are pathetically vulnerable to US weapons in the hands of people without underwear

    You can teach goat herders to use stingers and other MANPADS systems which are deadly to helicopters and older planes. But for the newer planes, you need stuff like S-300 and S-400 or other complicated anti-aircraft systems. Very difficult to train them in using those.

    You could give them a fully working nuclear ICBM and they wouldn’t benefit from it other than increasing their chances of getting cancer.


  111. L.K says:

    Dear uncle Talha,

    “As to the details of Russia’s participation; they do not exhibit necessary caution with their concentration of firepower in civilian areas (and that has been the case historically).”

    Huh? Nonsense. I’ll concede that Russia did not ‘exhibit necessary caution with their concentration of firepower in civilian areas’ in past wars, for example in Chechnya.
    Not that massive and indiscriminate use of firepower is something only Russia has done as one can easily see by observing Zusa’s military in action.

    But in Syria? No Way! In fact, in Syria, the Russians have been too cautious in their use of firepower, which has IMO prolonged the fighting in Aleppo, for instance… which has resulted in a lot of civilian casualties in the heavily populated districts controlled by the government.
    After all, there was 1.3 million people in the government areas, routinely shelled by the US backed takfiri savages. In East Aleppo, there were perhaps 50,000 civilians who were then transformed into 250,000 by the lying msm presstitutes.
    Many of them wanted to get out to the government areas but were prevented from doing so by the militants, who many times shot at or shelled the escape routes that were set up.

    Finally though, Aleppo is nearly totally pest/rat free. The last pockets of rodents are being reduced as I write these lines! Good riddance with bad trash!
    ANNA NEWS ALEPPO almost totally liberated from ZUSA’S backed jihadi scum

    Uncle Talha:’The Soviets invaded to help prop up that government against instability’

    Hmmm…. yeah, but the instability did only ever become significant bc of the US and its Wahhabi allies massively backing/funding the jihadists.

    • Replies: @Talha
  112. Talha says:

    Indeed; gelded monks vs Vikings – not a very good match-up.

  113. L.K says:

    You are a fantasist and a pathetic liar.

    Maybe ZUSA should cut off technology transfers to Russia, China…. buhahahaha
    Russia will be so hurt that it won’t be able to get the F-35!!

    You said something about the Chechens not being real soldiers, lacking skills and discipline, too old, etc…
    Let’s take a look at those ‘amateurs’, shall we?
    Russian-Chechen Special Forces

    Russian Army. Chechen armed forces

    Sean, gimme a unit of Chechen or any other first line Russian forces vs a similarly sized US army or even Marines unit, I’ll put my money on the chechen/russians any day of the week.

    You may want to take a look at ‘The March of the Porcelain Soldiers’, written by the (now deceased) highly decorated Colonel David Hackworth, a Korea and Vietnam veteran, re the state of affairs in the modern US infantry.
    It is funny as hell!

  114. Talha says:

    Dear Nephew,

    Not that massive and indiscriminate use of firepower is something only Russia has done

    Of course not – that would be a silly claim. And I agree, the Russians are being more careful than in Chechnya – no doubt about that; just not careful enough for my taste.

    the instability did only ever become significant bc of the US and its Wahhabi allies

    Uh no – you are putting the cart before the horse. The resistance was already in motion well before the US and Wahhabis got involved and tried to co-opt it. Please read “Islam and Resistance in Afghanistan” by the brilliant Oliver Roy:

    Especially read the chapter titled: “The communist reforms and the repression”

    There was not a chance in hell that a Communist government would simply take over without fierce resistance to it. A resistance whose roots lie in the influence of Scholar-Sufis like Shah Waliullah (ra) threading through the institution of Deoband and its seminaries in the North Western Frontier area of Pakistan – most of the senior Afghan ulema having been graduates of that system. Mr. Roy points out the integral part that the Sufi brotherhoods played in the resistance and organization of the tribes.


    • Replies: @Marcus
  115. Marcus says:

    Yes and the US didn’t necessarily want weaponry to go to people like Hekmatyar, but Pakistan ruled by the thuggish Zia regime was the “middleman.” Still the avg rebel was not a salafist, and the Soviet regime was genuinely unpopular in most areas, as evidenced by massive desertions. Despite lacking any cause that would boost morale, the avg Soviet soldier was a redoubtable enemy by all accounts, bin Laden even said “the Russian soldier is more courageous [than the American].”

  116. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “2. Increase prohibition of technology transfer to Russia (which has none of it’s own even in oil resource exploitation ).”

    How does this jive with Tillerson’s Exxon – Rosneft 500 billion dollar oil contract? Or did you just pull this out of your heinie?

    • Replies: @Sean
  117. @Talha

    It seems to me that the Soviets were building roads, hospitals and universities in Afghanistan. Women were becoming doctors, architects and lawyers etc and naturally those who had benefitted from the old system of warlords and tribal leaders were threatened by the move towards modernity and their subsequent loss of power.

    Much like the Luddites who tried to sabotage the industrialisation of Britain, progress would have swept them aside in time and Afghans in general would have enjoyed more of the fruits of modern life. It was Zbigniew Brzezinski’s grand plan to arm the medieval minded mujahideen and create a Vietnam-like defeat for the Soviets and what a giant cock-up his ‘brilliant’ plan turned out to be.

    • Replies: @Talha
  118. Talha says:

    Hey NtD,

    Yes, the Soviets were doing that stuff. The Americans were also building schools and such to win hearts and minds. It reminds me of a conversation that the invading French held with some tribal elders in Algeria.
    “According to one history book, when an Algerian elderly was told that the French armies were sent to spread Western civilization, his reaction was brief, stern, and direct. If that was truly the case, he observed, why did they bring so much gunpowder with them.”

    If the Russians simply wanted to volunteer to build roads out of mere altruism, nobody would have objected. But they came in to support a Communist government which was trying to make sweeping reforms that were seen as very hostile to a traditional, religious people:
    “The prime cause of the uprisings was the authoritarian way in which the new regime imposed its reforms a few months after the coup of 27 April 1978…To achieve this they adopted three means: repression, made possible by the existence of a loyal and well-equipped army; agrarian reform which, they thought, would win the support of the mass of the people; and the elimination of illiteracy, in order to rescue the people from the influence of the clergy and to spread the new ideology.”

    The resistance was beyond just tribal leaders and war lords. It was down to the average Afghan. There is no problem with modernizing* Afghanistan – but it must be done on their terms; if one wants to introduce co-education of the sexes and indoctrination of Dialectic Materialism then it will be resisted.

    Again, please read Oliver Roy’s book if you get a chance. Despite slight mistakes, he really gets one into the shoes of a Muslim culture to understand why these changes were not welcome.

    medieval minded

    Were it only so. ‘Medieval’ is a pejorative in European cultures due to their experience – this is quite understandable. It is not the case with Muslims. The vast majority of the scholars I quote from are indeed medieval scholars; their depth of understanding and humanity is something that is deplorably lacking in modern-day Muslims. Mr. Roy describes the curriculum that the senior Afghan ulema had to go through, based on the (yes, medieval) Nizami system:
    “The curriculum, which could take ten years to complete, comprised 106 books having to do with theology (according to the Ashari doctrine), the commentary on the Qur’an, the Hanafite fiqh, and the hadith, and also included Arabic and Persian grammar, literature, Greek and Arab philosophy, astronomy and medieval geometry, the branch of medicine known as ‘Greek’ (yunani) and logic.”

    *Modernization is not simply neutral. I highly recommend Neil Postman’s ‘Technopoly: The Surrender of Culture to Technology’ in understanding that introduction of technology into a society fundamentally changes its foundational framework:

    • Replies: @Marcus
    , @NoseytheDuke
  119. Marcus says:

    Yes, I wouldn’t appreciate another country trying to forcibly alter our society, even if it’s a laudable goal on its face. Also beware unintended consequences: the British “modernized” India in some ways, but created a whole host of other problems, like overpopulation and immigration.

    • Replies: @Avery
  120. Avery says:

    {Yes, I wouldn’t appreciate another country trying to forcibly alter our society,}


  121. Sean says:

    The Russians have a huge country with oil and shale, and customers for all the oil and gas they can deliver, so what do they need Exxon for? Tillerson’s appointment is intended to signal to Saudi Arabia with snow, ie Russia ,that they can get all sorts of technology if they play ball.
    In a few words: there is no such thing as Soviet technology. Almost all — perhaps 90–95 percent — came directly or indirectly from the United States and its allies. In effect the United States and the NATO countries have built the Soviet Union. Its industrial and its military capabilities. This massive construction job has taken 50 years. Since the Revolution in 1917. It has been carried out through trade and the sale of plants, equipment and technical assistance.[4]

  122. Ace says:

    It would work like clockwork.

  123. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Isn’t it a bit hypocritical to want to keep one’s traditional white Christian culture and at the same time insist that Muslims abandon their traditional culture.. in their own countries, too?

    • Replies: @Talha
  124. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    The Russian special police just averted a rather big terror act, arrested a bunch of Tajiks and someone from Moldova (interestingly enough). Must have been organized either as revenge for Aleppo or for the New Year’s. Altogether this year 42 potential terror attacks have been averted. Don’t be surprised if something happens.

  125. @Talha

    We’ll have to disagree. Of course the Soviets had their own interests, Afghanistan is strategically located. Afghans were among the poorest people with the lowest literacy and one of the highest infant mortality rates in the world when Soviet influence began. They did build roads and begin the introduction of modernity in ways of essential infrastructure, health and education. It was a secular government, imperfect as it may have been.

    It’s all very well for people living in the first world to talk about not wanting outside influence but it makes no sense when living in a pitiful and backwards state. Compare muslim Afghanistan to what was pre-war muslim Iraq, Syria or Pakistan next door.

    You say there was lots of grass roots opposition as well as the warlords and tribal leaders but we both know it was the CIA that stirred up the poo. Who knows what might have been had they been left alone and post-collapse Soviet Union they would have had independence anyway and all that remained. Look at the mess it is now.

    • Replies: @Talha
  126. Talha says:

    Hey NtD,

    One can definitely disagree on whether they like the outcome or not – depends on their priorities. Afghanistan was no doubt a very illiterate and poor country. Again, the process of modernization is at issue here – not necessarily the goal. All European empires came into the Muslim world with one or another version of the “White Man’s Burden” and all of them were fought. You just don’t do that in Muslim lands, intervening non-Muslim armies will be fought no matter what their stated goals.

    If they want to be altruistic, they have to help those people get on their feet on their own terms and in a way that jives with and does not threaten their local culture. I can tell you right now, as a man who has no problem sending his daughter for a college education; I would still have picked up a rifle and started shooting at armed Russian invaders supporting a Communist regime had I lived in Afghanistan – especially had I heard about what the Communists did to the faith of the people of places like Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, etc. One must see it from the frame of mind of those that are religious and traditionally minded (as Mr. Roy is able to do) like so many of the Afghans. Though it is great to be able to combine success in spirit and material – loss of material doesn’t bother us as much as loss of faith – it is better to remain in faith and be half-starving in Somalia than to lose one’s faith while living in the material opulence of Sweden (and the Swedes have unfortunately lost practically all of their faith)”
    “By Allah, I do not fear poverty for you, but rather I fear you will be given the wealth of the world just as it was given to those before you. You will compete for it just as they competed for it and it will destroy you just as it destroyed them.” – reported in Bukhari and Muslim

    The CIA did indeed come to stir the poo as they loved to do in South America and other places, but I can assure you, the poo was already boiling before they came with ladle in hand.


  127. Rudel says:

    “the US were uninterested in him”

    “A Clean Break”

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