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This has been an interesting week for Russia. First, and contrary to my own expectations, Iulia Skripal has been allowed to make a recorded statement on video where she is seen writing a statement in English and Russian. This falls far short of even the basic British obligations to allow consular access to both Skripals, but it is a sign that the Brits are finally starting to feel the pressure. This is just a small first step, but thank God for small things. Now let’s just hope that the pressure to free both Skripals will not abate.

Second, the St Petersburg Economic Forum has started with what promises to be a big success: 14,000 participants, including many top western business and even representatives of the British oligarchy (to the great despair of The Times). Now that the “economic block” of the Russian government is firmly in the hands of the Atlantic Integrationists and even Alexei Kudrin has declared that the impact of the economic sanctions is only 0.5% of the Russian GDP, and against the background of US arrogance gone berserk (see Pompeo’s 12 point ultimatum to Iran) thereby deeply frightening many European investors, Russia appears to be an island of comparative stability and predictability. Turns out, there are billions of dollars to be made in Russia, who would have thought?

Third, for all the saber-rattling heard over the past years from NATO, a former Supreme Allied Commander Europe (SACEUR), General Breedlove, has gone on record that NATO is in no shape to fight Russia. The Baltic statelets and the Swedes can continue to prepare for a Russian invasion of the want, but this nonsense is slowly losing its traction with EU politicians.

Finally, the President of Bulgaria has had to fly to Moscow to ask the Russians to re-start the “Bulgarian Stream”. Yes, the very same “stream” which Bulgaria reneged on under EU pressure. The logic of the Bulgarians is simple and irrefutable: if the Germans get to open their own “stream” then so do we. Makes sense.

True, there was this latest idiocy by the Dutch who now are saying that it was a “Russian” unit which shot down MH-17. I don’t know why they would bother coming up with this latest nonsense right now, this might be a desperate hope by some hardcore NATO Cold Warriors, but in the current political climate this is going largely unnoticed.

The key to it all? Can you connect the dots?

As Roger Waters put it in his song Perfect SenseCan’t you see? It all makes perfect sense, expressed in dollars and cents, pounds shillings and pence. Can’t you see? It all makes perfect sense“. It is all about money.

No doubt there will be those who will greatly rejoice at these developments, after all, this could be the beginning of a much needed (for both sides) rapprochement between Russia and the EU and improving economic ties, along with the rapidly increasing energy costs, could provide the funds needed to implement Putin’s ambitious internal reforms and development program. So what’s there not to celebrate?

Well, it all depends on your values.

If you want the Russian economy integrated into the western markets and financial sphere, if you believe that the correct economic path of development for Russia is western-style liberal capitalism,if you believe that the Zionist lobby in Russia does not exist or is not an issue, then you truly have cause to rejoice and, indeed, many have (including my friend Alexander Mercouris at The Duran).

But if you believe that morals, ethics should always prime so-called “pragmatic” considerations, if you believe that the correct path for Russia is to follow her own civilizational model, if you believe that there is a very influential and highly toxic Zionist lobby in Russia, then you have cause to worry.

In an ideal world or, at least, a less crazy one, this choice should not be as stark, but with the Neocons in absolute control of the US and the US foreign policy decided in the Likud offices in Jerusalem, and with Israel and the US taking turns bombing Syria (even today), that choice will have to be made.

True, to some degree, there are already obvious unofficial understandings between the US and Russia and between Israel and Russia over military operations in Syria. And as I have argued many times (even if some pretend I did not), Russia has no obligation whatsoever to fight on behalf of anybody in the Middle East. However, what Russian ought to do, at least in my opinion, is to carefully evaluate the potential consequences of inaction, not because of Syrian or Iranian interests, but because of her own, Russian, interests.

The unofficial agreement between Russia and the Anglo-Zionists does make sense, but only in the short term. In the long term it contains many possible dangers:

  1. First, the Israelis are clearly baiting Iran for a meaningful counter-strike. And they are doing all they can to push the US to attack Iran. How long can the Iranian patience last? How long can the (hopefully existing) rational minds in the Pentagon contain the “crazies”? You tell me, I don’t know.
  2. The Israelis, clearly buoyed by the US decision to move its embassy to Jerusalem (along with a few vassal states) have not basically given up on their public image, which has been roadkill for many years already, and have decided to use even more grotesque violence than usual to make the Palestinians pay for having the audacity to exist. This increase in violence creates a great deal of tension in the Muslim world and Iran’s Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei has already called on all Muslim countries to condemn Israel. He used very precise language (emphasis added): “It is the Muslim states that should take a stance against it (the massacre of Palestinians). Muslim states are the ones that should rise up but they do not because they have distanced themselves from the Quran and do not believe in holy book. By God’s grace Palestine will be freed from the vicious enemies. Al-Quds (Beit-ul-Moqaddas) is the capital of Palestine and the US and its minions cannot do a damn thing against the truth and the divine tradition regarding Palestine”. The implication here is clear: it is an Islamic obligation mandated by the Quran itself not to collaborate with the Zionist entity, those who are now ignoring this imperative are acting like disbelievers. That includes the Saudis and all their allies. With that kind of language (which has tremendous support in the Muslim world at large, not only amongst the Shia, how long will the current standoff be limited to Syria? You tell me, I don’t know.
  3. As I have also argued time and again, the AngloZionists interpret every non-escalatory move by Russia as a sign of weakness, even when it is motivated by a sincere desire to avoid conflict, when it is pragmatic and even mutually beneficial. The Ukronazis in the Donbass have a tactic they call “leapfrogging” in which they regularly seize a couple of houses here and there in the neutral zone while keeping the Novorussians under a more or less constant stream of artillery strikes and terrorist attacks. They do that while trying to keep the shooting just under the threshold which would result in full-scale attack on Novorussia which, so they themselves say, will happen in the not too distant future. That kind of “leapfrogging” under “petty fire” is exactly what the Empire is doing against Russia in Syria and elsewhere. The difference is only that AngloZionist leaders do not promise a final attack on Russia. Do you trust their word? I sure don’t.

These are not what I would call minor issues which can be comfortably ignored and the purpose of analysis is not comfort but understanding. Intelligence work is built on three components, the triple “A”: Acquisition, Analysis and Acceptance. First, you get the raw info, then you process it (primarily by rating the source and the info itself), and then you present it to those who will use it. Most often, the problem is in the third “A”, that is when decision-makers are unhappy with what they hear and then put pressure on the second “A” (analysis). In extreme cases, this can result in the 2nd “A” downgrading a perfectly reliable source.

That is the kind of stuff which starts dumb wars and results in surprise attacks.

ORDER IT NOW

There is a natural desire in each one of us to see “our” team win, and nuanced arguments are easy to misrepresent. For the dishonest, it is a no-brainer to present any criticism or concern as “betrayal” (we all know what happened to Cassandra). And then there are, of course, those for whom any nuanced argument is too complex to process and who simply are not intellectually equipped to understand a balanced thesis. Cheering is fun. Honestly analyzing often takes courage.

I recommend that we avoid both extremes, the one of mindlessly cheer-leading and the one of defeatism, both are equally toxic and both are used by AngloZionist strategic psychological operations to weaken Russia in general and Putin and his Eurasian Sovereignist supporters in particular. The words of Christ “ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free” (John 8:32) have a profound spiritual meaning, but they can also be taken quite literally and He never said that that truth would be comfy, I would add. In our case, you, the reader, are the third “A” and my role is only limited to try to honestly do the first and second “A”.

For independent analysts like myself, there is no point in doing what the CIA did about Iraq: have these words of Christ as a motto and then provide a hopelessly politically-correct “analysis”. True, unlike the folks at the CIA, I am not paid (by you, in the form of your donations) to follow a narrow political agenda, neither do I depend on any oligarch’s financial support. As for calling things the way I see them, I know each time in advance when this will get me a barrage of criticism and hate mail from those who follow a very specific political agenda (I have explained that here in some detail, check it out!). The Empire uses the term “fringe extremist” while in the blogosphere what you mostly see is “out of touch”, but the goal is the same: a total dismissal. Next time you see that language, ask yourself not only what actual arguments it contains (if any!), but also cui bono – who benefits from making it, and why. Then think of the words of Christ quoted above one more time.

I think that Paul Craig Roberts is fundamentally correct when he says that the Empire is escalating on all fronts against Russia, even if I do not share his pessimism (but neither do I dismiss it!). First, with Trump turned into a rabid Likudnik, Putin’s plan of a “rapprochement” with the EU might work, NATO’s histrionics notwithstanding. We will see soon as Europe is now facing a stark choice, either join the US in even more sanctions on Iran, or not. And “not” means de-facto join Russia in her support for Iran.

So which will prevail? The cowardice and subservience of the European leaders or their greed?

As long as all this remains in the realm of economics, Russia will probably continue her current balancing act between her own short-term economic interests in the West and her long-term economic interests in the rest of the world. But if Iran is actually meaningfully attacked by any combination of AngloZionist states, then Russia will have to chose. Ideally, the Atlantic Integrationists will have to do what they did in the cases of Georgia and Crimea, look away and play along, while the Eurasian Sovereignists do what they did in both of these instances: immediately take action. That does not mean fighting a war on behalf of the Iranians or “protecting” Iran, but that will mean a willingness to help Iran at all level short of war. Which is what Russia has been doing in Syria.

There is a big difference between Iran and Syria though: the Russian public did support Putin’s argument that it is better to fight the Takfiris over “there” rather than right “here”. But Russians are most unlikely to support any risks of war (nevermind a war itself) unless it directly affects Russian national interests. On that Russians are split.

Some, like myself, think that Iran is, if not a vital, then at least a crucial partner (and, hopefully, ally) of Russia in the entire greater Middle-East. It is also a country which, unlike Russia, has achieved true, real, sovereignty and thus, at least to some degree, a test-case for the rest of the planet (that is the real reason for the AngloZionist’s hatred and fear of Iran, not some non-existing military weapons program). Others think that Iran is just a useful partner and should be engaged, but that the Iranians have too different an agenda to really become Russia’s reliable partner (the feeling in Tehran is often symmetrical). Still, regardless of the doubts on both sides, I believe that Iran is vital for Russia because Iran has achieved what Russia is still after: full sovereignty. No country which wants to become truly sovereign can refuse to help Iran in every possible way.

There is also the “minor” issue of international law by which neither the US nor Israel consider themselves restrained and which they both constantly, and very openly and gleefully, violate. This set a terrible and very dangerous precedent for the entire planet and is yes another factor Russia cannot ignore.

And then there is Palestine.

Like it or not (I don’t), for the time being, Russia and the EU have chosen to be in the famous words of Yehuda Bauer, a “bystander”. Some of us will deny that (good luck with that!), some will minimize it, some will explain that away on pragmatic grounds. Who is right?

Well, again, it all depends on your values.

If you believe that the Palestinians are to blame, or if you believe that what is done to them is their problem, not yours, or if you think “let the Arabs or the Muslims solve this” – then all is well.

But if you believe in basic notions of Right and Wrong, if you believe that racism and genocide (even slo-mo genocide), should be abhorrent to every human being, then no, you cannot feel good about Russia’s stance on Palestine.

Iran has chosen to take a moral stance on this issue. Russia, at least so far, has chosen a “pragmatic” one, for many reasons, including good ones (as I explained in some details here). But that does not change the fact that the triangle Israel-Palestine-Iran presents a crucial spiritual, ethical, moral and civilizational challenge to Russia, one which she cannot ignore and one which most likely will determine her future. Sooner or later, Russia will have to make a choice even if that choice is to remain a bystander.

The same can be said about Novorussia. Russia cannot let the Donbass bleed forever and while in the past Russia has helped Novorussia a great deal, the fact that the Donbass is still bleeding cannot be allowed to last forever.

In the case of the Donbass, the problem is obvious: if Russia openly stops the daily Ukronazi attacks, the Empire will scream to high heavens about a “Russian aggression” (they will pretend that they did not come up with their so-called “Responsibility to Protect” (R2P) doctrine). Which will compromise the Russia-EU relations. Hence the current Russian balancing act.

These are hard and painful decisions for Putin. In the past he has shown tremendous courage and will-power when Russian vital interests were at stake and I hope and believe that he will do that again. Time will show if Putin and the rest of Russia will decide whether moral, ethical and spiritual values are an integral part of “Russian vital interests” and whether they have to prime over “pragmatic” considerations or the other way around. And maybe they will come to conclude, as I do, that moral, ethical and spiritual vales are pragmatic considerations and that the apparent choice between them is an illusion.

This choice will also determine the future of Russia and her civilizational realm.

 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: American Military, Iran, Israel, Russia 
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  1. peterAUS says:

    Slowly, but surely, Saker is,finally, starting to get there.
    Not bad.

    Time will show if Putin and the rest of Russia will decide whether moral, ethical and spiritual values are an integral part of “Russian vital interests” and whether they have to prime over “pragmatic” considerations or the other way around.

    Yup.

    And maybe they will come to conclude, as I do, that moral, ethical and spiritual vales are pragmatic considerations and that the apparent choice between them is an illusion.

    Maybe. Maybe not.

    This choice will also determine the future of Russia and her civilizational realm.

    Yup.

    Read More
    • Replies: @EagleEyeX
    Yes ....I agree with this completely. I believe however that Mr Putin, whom I have immense respect for, will choose the pragmatic, regrettably. Humanity cannot be saved from itself
    , @ChuckOrloski
    Featherweight peterAUS opined:
    "Slowly, but surely, Saker is,finally, starting to get there. Not bad."

    After reading The Saker's impressively logical article, & of all possible astute U.R. commenters, there was a let down for me to see little peterAUS kick-start this thread.

    Attentive readers here will note how The Saker quoted Jesus Christ's having informed listeners, "The truth will you free."

    In contrast, at comment # 34, peterAUS proudly classified himself as a (young) disciple of "cynicism."

    (Zigh) It would be a betrayal for me to look for wisdom in his thought.

    Selah, uh, "get away from peterAUS, Satan!'
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  2. gsjackson says:

    The timing of the Dutch report blaming Russia for shooting down MH-17? Maybe because Malaysia just elected a 92-year-old prime minister who is described as a proud anti-semite. He might focus attention on possible culprit Kolomoisky.

    Read More
    • Agree: Iris
    • Replies: @utu
    Mahathir Mohamad is back!
    , @Wally
    Who describes him "as a proud anti-semite"?

    And would there be something wrong with that?

    www.codoh.com

    , @Moi
    Nah, Mahathir speaks the truth on the subject of so-called Semites.
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  3. If you want the Russian economy integrated into the western markets and financial sphere, if you believe that the correct economic path of development for Russia is western-style liberal capitalism,if you believe that the Zionist lobby in Russia does not exist or is not an issue, then you truly have cause to rejoice and, indeed, many have (including my friend Alexander Mercouris at The Duran)

    Or if, unlike the Saker, you see Putin embracing Xi’s model of business first; quietly but strongly. The Belt and Road does in fact connect through Russia and with Russia but Western eyes cannot focus clearly on China somehow. It’s a big country; must be the eastern sun in our eyes.  

    https://robertmagill.wordpress.com/2018/05/16/is-chairman-xi-modeling-kubilai-khan/

    Read More
    • Replies: @RobinG
    .....and Putin's model -
    "The Russian president said France is an old and reliable partner of Russia, as well as Germany. "We very much count on the fact that our French friends, companies will develop in Russia, will receive income and profit.”

    Putin also noted that Russian-French business ties are diversified since the countries work in many spheres from space to pharmaceuticals. But Russia's leading economic partner is now China, not France or Germany, Putin pointed out."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcHwJeGub74
    Putin Pokes Fun At Macron Over "Huge" French Investments In Russia
    , @Lea
    I Agree. The Saker has forgotten the elephant in the room, China and its (gold) Yellow Brick Road, the Belt and Road Initiative.

    There is a Chinese taoist tradition which is called Wu Wei, meaning non-action. It posits that, without need for any action other than being wise, you influence everyone around. Given China's astonishing level of success and the scope of its plans for the peaceful development of the whole Eurasia-Africa mega-continent (plus friends in South America), one would be hard-put to imagine why on dear Earth, bar being totally dumb (which they are not), the Russians would turn a blind eye to China's recipes for success. All the more as they are poised to benefit economically from the BRI, big time, along with all their comrades Iraq-Iran-Syria-Turkey (if Erdogan behaves)...

    As far as I am concerned, it is even beyond me why my country, France, doesn't follow in China's footsteps. IT WORKS, for heaven's sake! But then, we are ruled by mediocre leaders hanging on to their troughs for their lives, which is not an issue in Russia (At least for the brains, I don't know about the troughs).
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  4. jimrebels says:

    with Russians love affair with their glory day may 9 judeo bolshevik triumph which as Saker says elsewhere bonds russians with jews due to suffering, never mind they were a genocidal regime murdering millilons of christians and muslims–with this paradigm Russians are doomed, they are joined to hip and tolerate their zio oligarchs running the country. the ukronazis seem more coherent, you killed and genocided my people, you still embrace commies with you war monuments, go to hell shabbas goim, The picture of netanyhau next to putin holding picture jewish bolshevik comissar speaks volumes

    Read More
    • Replies: @nickels
    Yes, this jew loving legacy of victory day is interesting.
    To some extent the judeo part of Bolshevism was killed by the victory of Stalin over Trotsky, but, nonetheless, siding with jew Anglo's in the war created the very enemy that Russia is being destroyed by today, the ZangloHell empire.
    It is not unlike America's problem-we celebrate a war where we sided with the very force of jewry that is ripping our culture apart and spitting on our most sacred faith.
    Both countries have a generational cognitive dissonance related to the war. Patriotism requires celebrating it, yet survival requires realizing the whole thing was a dismal and shameful sham.
    I think only as the war generation passes can the revisionism come into the mainstream.
    Provided enough mass intelligence exists to do so, of which I am not hopeful, having sat through the many prayers for the state of Israhell while attended my Montana rural protestant church service with family this last week.
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  5. Anon[121] • Disclaimer says:

    Yes, values are nice but tend to be passive and personal.

    It’s like being a good person.

    But a nation doesn’t progress with goodness. It is maintained and preserved by goodness. Goodness is essential but it’s not creative.

    For advancement and progress in arts, sciences, technology, and enterprise, a people need that spark.
    Goodness as a value is like warmth. It’s nice but it doesn’t set off a fire. For fire, you need spark. The Howard Roark thing.

    You need inspiration and ambition. You need drive and egoism. This is why Russian Soul lost out to Anglo Spirit that built America.

    Also, goodness isn’t enough for Rule of Law. That calls for culture of Fairness. A nation can have good values but still lack the sense of fairness rooted in honor.

    Also, values are like the flesh that tend to go flabby without bone, structure, and form.
    This is why manners and habits matter. Germans, Japanese, and Anglos, with harder social form, did more than slovenly and lax Russians.

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    Agree.

    Deeper thinking, going to the core of the issue.

    A pleasant and sorely needed surprise in all this blabbing around.
    Makes skimming through the rubbish here worth it.

    Please keep similar posts coming.
    , @The Scalpel
    "This is why Russian Soul lost out to Anglo Spirit that built America."

    How did Russia "lose out"?

    Russia - largest country on earth,
    - One of two military superpowers,
    - One of the world's largest economies (7th largest economy) https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2001rank.html
    - largest oil producer
    - 2nd largest natural gas producer
    - 5th largest electricity producer

    , @anonymous

    For advancement and progress in arts, sciences, technology, and enterprise, a people need that spark.
     
    You forgot one more important ingredient. Wealth. Lots of it.

    The evil Angloids understood this quite well, and they possessed the limitless Greed and racial supremacist delusions (heck, even the f'ing Japs too), which formed the basis for their Psycho-necrophiliac tendencies.

    They could not have "succeeded" (see below) as they did without plundering wealth, with the resultant oppression and bloodletting, from all around the world.

    In the process they gave away their souls to the Devil.

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  6. “True, there was this latest idiocy by the Dutch who now are saying that it was a “Russian” unit which shot down MH-17. I don’t know why they would bother coming up with this latest nonsense right now, this might be a desperate hope by some hardcore NATO Cold Warriors, but in the current political climate this is going largely unnoticed.”

    The only thing idiotic is that you still think anyone with two brain cells to run together is going to believe the lie that Russian troops did not shoot down MH-17. Keep whistling past the graveyard.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Haxo Angmark
    the (((Kiev regime))) - whose Air Traffic Control re-routed MH-17 into the kill zone in the first place -

    is, in the second place, still refusing to release the ATC tape.


    (note lack of insults in this comment; generally, argument-via-insult is a suspicious tactic; tho not as suspicious as the (((Kiev regime)))'s refusal to release the ATC tape).
    , @jilles dykstra
    Well, until someone explains to me what benefit Russian troops expected from shooting down a passenger plane, I'm not accepting that they did it.
    It may have been an 'accident', it seems that Ukraine abused commercial overflights to shield their bombers.
    In this case in my opinion Ukraine is the guilty party.
    I've never seen explained why Kiev flight controllers ordered the plane to fly at a lower altitude.
    This lower altitude, BTW, supports the theory that an Ukrainian jet shot down the plane.
    The pilot who might have done this is dead, suicide.
    It is common in political murders to kill the murderer(s).
    I'm keeping an open mind, but as with Sept 11, do not expect to get ever the truth officially.
    Katyn took over forty years.
    , @slorter
    Well I have three brain cells and I think the perpetrators of the crime was part of the investigation team ! You obviously have four brain cells so it should not be hard to work that out!
    , @bluebeard
    You're not a very stylish 'agent provocateur'. Ask Milo for tips.
    , @ploni almoni
    And remember those evil Spanish who blew up the Maine in Havana, and let us never forget 9/11. They hate our freedoms.
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  7. nickels says:
    @jimrebels
    with Russians love affair with their glory day may 9 judeo bolshevik triumph which as Saker says elsewhere bonds russians with jews due to suffering, never mind they were a genocidal regime murdering millilons of christians and muslims--with this paradigm Russians are doomed, they are joined to hip and tolerate their zio oligarchs running the country. the ukronazis seem more coherent, you killed and genocided my people, you still embrace commies with you war monuments, go to hell shabbas goim, The picture of netanyhau next to putin holding picture jewish bolshevik comissar speaks volumes

    Yes, this jew loving legacy of victory day is interesting.
    To some extent the judeo part of Bolshevism was killed by the victory of Stalin over Trotsky, but, nonetheless, siding with jew Anglo’s in the war created the very enemy that Russia is being destroyed by today, the ZangloHell empire.
    It is not unlike America’s problem-we celebrate a war where we sided with the very force of jewry that is ripping our culture apart and spitting on our most sacred faith.
    Both countries have a generational cognitive dissonance related to the war. Patriotism requires celebrating it, yet survival requires realizing the whole thing was a dismal and shameful sham.
    I think only as the war generation passes can the revisionism come into the mainstream.
    Provided enough mass intelligence exists to do so, of which I am not hopeful, having sat through the many prayers for the state of Israhell while attended my Montana rural protestant church service with family this last week.

    Read More
    • Replies: @EagleEyeX
    Absolutely , no question this mans opinion. Stand up in that Montana Christian church and express your views ........that is our great mistake to take this without a fight. Bravo
    , @Stonehands
    You two have nailed it...
    , @byrresheim

    … but, nonetheless, siding with jew Anglo’s in the war created the very enemy that Russia is being destroyed by today, the ZangloHell empire.
     
    That decision also created the enemy that badly damaged the Soviet Union back then.

    The Saker should stop talking about what he calls Ukronazis. Something went terribly wrong in non-Russian eastern Europe. The fact that even the Poles, who suffered enormously, prefer Germans to Russians – we are not talking about love – should give a Russian patriot (as opposed to nationalist) pause.

    No need to emulate the German cult of guilt, but a clear view of recent Russian history would be in order.
    , @Eagle Eye
    NOTE: Poster "EagleEye" (no space) is an impostor with shaky English and a penchant for vulgarity.

    Eagle Eye expresses no views on the post.
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  8. Ma Laoshi says:

    Isn’t there a conflation here between trading with the EU and capitulating to it? Sure Brussels and Washington wanted to make the former conditional on the latter. But as long as Russia politely says “Nice try but we’re not Montenegro” and sticks to it, I don’t see a problem.

    About the informal understanding which Russia is claimed to have with the US in Syria: you mean the country which played a key role in assassinating your general? Really? And was that part of the understanding? Never forget what you face.

    About the notion that Russia has no obligation to fight for Syria or anyone else: when Syria declined the Qatar-Turkey gas pipeline, was this a Syrian or a Russian interest? I see a parallel with the Yulia Skripal saga; the Kremlin view seems to be mostly “good for her if she can eventually go home, tough luck otherwise” (ah well, at least she hasn’t been murdered yet). Whether in these cases, with the Maidan, or with Armenia, people observe that the Bear just doesn’t have your back. Is this a productive state of affairs?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ma Laoshi
    Another issue: even if both the EU and Russia would genuinely want rapprochement at this point, who says that this would be allowed to happen? Wasn't the Skripal affair mostly orchestrated to preclude such developments? Thanks to the traitors governing it, Europe is now top to bottom infiltrated with ex-ISIS and other jihadist types. The Kiev junta answers to Washington only, the EU just pays for the show. These would suggest that some Old World Marawi incident can always be arranged.
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  9. utu says:
    @gsjackson
    The timing of the Dutch report blaming Russia for shooting down MH-17? Maybe because Malaysia just elected a 92-year-old prime minister who is described as a proud anti-semite. He might focus attention on possible culprit Kolomoisky.

    Mahathir Mohamad is back!

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  10. First, forget about values, morals, and religious stuff except for one thing: setting the goals for your cybernetic machine analysis — i.e., what do you want to end up with; what your ‘vision thing’. Everything else should be interpreted in terms of cybernetic principles (control and regulation of a system — it’s too bad many people think that it’s about computers and not any system, including animals and political entities). Cybernetics can be used for both ‘moral’ and ‘immoral’ systems, so you need to be inclusive in your goals, and use second order cybernetics so you observe what the system is doing and how, and whether it is incorporating the assumed values of your goals (the end does not justify the means). If you don’t know about cybernetics you should take a few days to become familiar with the fundamentals. Much of it about functional feedback loops.

    Stafford Beer ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJ6orMfmorg for example)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7COX-b3HK50 The Intelligent Organization, PART I Stafford BEER // Javier Livas

    http://www.narberthpa.com/Bale/lsbale_dop/gbcatsbs.pdf

    http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/CYBSNAT.html

    https://www.youtube.com/user/JAVIERLIVAS/videos?disable_polymer=1

    Stuart A. Umpleby (at various sites)

    Putin about the smartest major leader in the world we have, and an excellent and honest administrator, but a garden elf (who is often right) tols me Xi Jinoing is even smarter, and has made huge strides in the economic sphere, as Putin has done in the military sphere. Between the two of them they are transforming the world. (Honesty is critical, BTW, not only to ‘make deals’ but also to preserve the functionality of feedback, which is critical for a viable system).

    If we look at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wh2jeBRWVXg
    The Financial Crisis & Cybernetics [very good video, only about 10 minutes]
    We see how inadequate feedback — and of course dishonesty — led to the 2008 financial collapse, abut also extrapolate to see how the US is destructive with it lies and capriciousness.

    In short, it doesn’t all depend on your values, but on knowledge about systems and how they work, and how they break down. In the current case, the capitalist system in inherently flawed, being based solely on ever greater profits without regard to externalities, which leads to a world which violates the cybernetic ‘law’ that viable systems exist within viable systems (if the world is not viable then no nation can be either). None of this depends on religion or moral values, but on how things actually work. If we choose to survive and live in desirable ways, then we can’t ignore system thinking (cybernetics), math and physics, and good epistemology — not for long.

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu
    All these social and economic cybernetic 'preachers' are people who stopped their development in 1950s and 1960s when cybernetics was in vogue and was overhyped. It all comes down to talking of one mathematical equation that covers the feedback loop. In social cybernetic you can't do math because most of quantities cannot be mathematized so the feedback loop is just a metaphor for processes they try to describe or explain with lots of hand waving. Hand waving is their main tool while they draw some cryptic but very simple diagrams that have circles, boxes and few arrows. I am really surprised that there are suckers who are still falling for it. The 'cebernetiticians' are mostly harmless charlatans who like to add a veil of secrecy and mystery to their science and knowledge by hinting that it is being used by those who really control societies, countries and the world. If asked if they work for these secret organization they knowingly smile. Anyway it is all BS.
    , @animalogic
    Excellent materialist description. Reminds me of Authur Koestler's concept of the "holon" (everything in existence is both a whole - an individual unit - and a part of a greater whole: all things have this Janus face existence). The cybernetics trope has the great quality of highlighting that systems are intrinsically dynamic.
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  11. peterAUS says:
    @Anon
    Yes, values are nice but tend to be passive and personal.

    It's like being a good person.

    But a nation doesn't progress with goodness. It is maintained and preserved by goodness. Goodness is essential but it's not creative.

    For advancement and progress in arts, sciences, technology, and enterprise, a people need that spark.
    Goodness as a value is like warmth. It's nice but it doesn't set off a fire. For fire, you need spark. The Howard Roark thing.

    You need inspiration and ambition. You need drive and egoism. This is why Russian Soul lost out to Anglo Spirit that built America.

    Also, goodness isn't enough for Rule of Law. That calls for culture of Fairness. A nation can have good values but still lack the sense of fairness rooted in honor.

    Also, values are like the flesh that tend to go flabby without bone, structure, and form.
    This is why manners and habits matter. Germans, Japanese, and Anglos, with harder social form, did more than slovenly and lax Russians.

    Agree.

    Deeper thinking, going to the core of the issue.

    A pleasant and sorely needed surprise in all this blabbing around.
    Makes skimming through the rubbish here worth it.

    Please keep similar posts coming.

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  12. utu says:
    @Blue Pilgrim
    First, forget about values, morals, and religious stuff except for one thing: setting the goals for your cybernetic machine analysis -- i.e., what do you want to end up with; what your 'vision thing'. Everything else should be interpreted in terms of cybernetic principles (control and regulation of a system -- it's too bad many people think that it's about computers and not any system, including animals and political entities). Cybernetics can be used for both 'moral' and 'immoral' systems, so you need to be inclusive in your goals, and use second order cybernetics so you observe what the system is doing and how, and whether it is incorporating the assumed values of your goals (the end does not justify the means). If you don't know about cybernetics you should take a few days to become familiar with the fundamentals. Much of it about functional feedback loops.

    Stafford Beer ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJ6orMfmorg for example)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7COX-b3HK50 The Intelligent Organization, PART I Stafford BEER // Javier Livas

    http://www.narberthpa.com/Bale/lsbale_dop/gbcatsbs.pdf

    http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/CYBSNAT.html

    https://www.youtube.com/user/JAVIERLIVAS/videos?disable_polymer=1
    Stuart A. Umpleby (at various sites)

    Putin about the smartest major leader in the world we have, and an excellent and honest administrator, but a garden elf (who is often right) tols me Xi Jinoing is even smarter, and has made huge strides in the economic sphere, as Putin has done in the military sphere. Between the two of them they are transforming the world. (Honesty is critical, BTW, not only to 'make deals' but also to preserve the functionality of feedback, which is critical for a viable system).

    If we look at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wh2jeBRWVXg
    The Financial Crisis & Cybernetics [very good video, only about 10 minutes]
    We see how inadequate feedback -- and of course dishonesty -- led to the 2008 financial collapse, abut also extrapolate to see how the US is destructive with it lies and capriciousness.

    In short, it doesn't all depend on your values, but on knowledge about systems and how they work, and how they break down. In the current case, the capitalist system in inherently flawed, being based solely on ever greater profits without regard to externalities, which leads to a world which violates the cybernetic 'law' that viable systems exist within viable systems (if the world is not viable then no nation can be either). None of this depends on religion or moral values, but on how things actually work. If we choose to survive and live in desirable ways, then we can't ignore system thinking (cybernetics), math and physics, and good epistemology -- not for long.

    All these social and economic cybernetic ‘preachers’ are people who stopped their development in 1950s and 1960s when cybernetics was in vogue and was overhyped. It all comes down to talking of one mathematical equation that covers the feedback loop. In social cybernetic you can’t do math because most of quantities cannot be mathematized so the feedback loop is just a metaphor for processes they try to describe or explain with lots of hand waving. Hand waving is their main tool while they draw some cryptic but very simple diagrams that have circles, boxes and few arrows. I am really surprised that there are suckers who are still falling for it. The ‘cebernetiticians’ are mostly harmless charlatans who like to add a veil of secrecy and mystery to their science and knowledge by hinting that it is being used by those who really control societies, countries and the world. If asked if they work for these secret organization they knowingly smile. Anyway it is all BS.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Blue Pilgrim
    No BS at all, and a great deal of work has been done since the 1950s, including in math, neuroscience, and technology (including artificial intelligence), and basic science. Most all the new technology is based on cybernetic principles. Without cybernetics and it's information theories you wouldn't have a computer or internet to write on.

    I can only encourage you to look at the more recent developments and and learn more about. I wonder where you got you information from, it seems to be so meager?! It has nothing to do with secret organizations, BTW.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29C9bTImGqs CYBERNETICS: The super science of interconnectedness; definitions, origins, & map. gives a bit more about the breadth and depth of the science of cybernetics.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjzUEhFvtsg is a three-minute version.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cybernetics
    Cybernetics is a transdisciplinary[1] approach for exploring regulatory systems—their structures, constraints, and possibilities. Norbert Wiener defined cybernetics in 1948 as "the scientific study of control and communication in the animal and the machine."[2] In the 21st century, the term is often used in a rather loose way to imply "control of any system using technology." In other words, it is the scientific study of how humans, animals and machines control and communicate with each other. [...]
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  13. Ma Laoshi says:
    @Ma Laoshi
    Isn't there a conflation here between trading with the EU and capitulating to it? Sure Brussels and Washington wanted to make the former conditional on the latter. But as long as Russia politely says "Nice try but we're not Montenegro" and sticks to it, I don't see a problem.

    About the informal understanding which Russia is claimed to have with the US in Syria: you mean the country which played a key role in assassinating your general? Really? And was that part of the understanding? Never forget what you face.

    About the notion that Russia has no obligation to fight for Syria or anyone else: when Syria declined the Qatar-Turkey gas pipeline, was this a Syrian or a Russian interest? I see a parallel with the Yulia Skripal saga; the Kremlin view seems to be mostly "good for her if she can eventually go home, tough luck otherwise" (ah well, at least she hasn't been murdered yet). Whether in these cases, with the Maidan, or with Armenia, people observe that the Bear just doesn't have your back. Is this a productive state of affairs?

    Another issue: even if both the EU and Russia would genuinely want rapprochement at this point, who says that this would be allowed to happen? Wasn’t the Skripal affair mostly orchestrated to preclude such developments? Thanks to the traitors governing it, Europe is now top to bottom infiltrated with ex-ISIS and other jihadist types. The Kiev junta answers to Washington only, the EU just pays for the show. These would suggest that some Old World Marawi incident can always be arranged.

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  14. @utu
    All these social and economic cybernetic 'preachers' are people who stopped their development in 1950s and 1960s when cybernetics was in vogue and was overhyped. It all comes down to talking of one mathematical equation that covers the feedback loop. In social cybernetic you can't do math because most of quantities cannot be mathematized so the feedback loop is just a metaphor for processes they try to describe or explain with lots of hand waving. Hand waving is their main tool while they draw some cryptic but very simple diagrams that have circles, boxes and few arrows. I am really surprised that there are suckers who are still falling for it. The 'cebernetiticians' are mostly harmless charlatans who like to add a veil of secrecy and mystery to their science and knowledge by hinting that it is being used by those who really control societies, countries and the world. If asked if they work for these secret organization they knowingly smile. Anyway it is all BS.

    No BS at all, and a great deal of work has been done since the 1950s, including in math, neuroscience, and technology (including artificial intelligence), and basic science. Most all the new technology is based on cybernetic principles. Without cybernetics and it’s information theories you wouldn’t have a computer or internet to write on.

    I can only encourage you to look at the more recent developments and and learn more about. I wonder where you got you information from, it seems to be so meager?! It has nothing to do with secret organizations, BTW.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29C9bTImGqs CYBERNETICS: The super science of interconnectedness; definitions, origins, & map. gives a bit more about the breadth and depth of the science of cybernetics.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjzUEhFvtsg is a three-minute version.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cybernetics

    Cybernetics is a transdisciplinary[1] approach for exploring regulatory systems—their structures, constraints, and possibilities. Norbert Wiener defined cybernetics in 1948 as “the scientific study of control and communication in the animal and the machine.”[2] In the 21st century, the term is often used in a rather loose way to imply “control of any system using technology.” In other words, it is the scientific study of how humans, animals and machines control and communicate with each other. [...]

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  15. The Scalpel says: • Website
    @Anon
    Yes, values are nice but tend to be passive and personal.

    It's like being a good person.

    But a nation doesn't progress with goodness. It is maintained and preserved by goodness. Goodness is essential but it's not creative.

    For advancement and progress in arts, sciences, technology, and enterprise, a people need that spark.
    Goodness as a value is like warmth. It's nice but it doesn't set off a fire. For fire, you need spark. The Howard Roark thing.

    You need inspiration and ambition. You need drive and egoism. This is why Russian Soul lost out to Anglo Spirit that built America.

    Also, goodness isn't enough for Rule of Law. That calls for culture of Fairness. A nation can have good values but still lack the sense of fairness rooted in honor.

    Also, values are like the flesh that tend to go flabby without bone, structure, and form.
    This is why manners and habits matter. Germans, Japanese, and Anglos, with harder social form, did more than slovenly and lax Russians.

    “This is why Russian Soul lost out to Anglo Spirit that built America.”

    How did Russia “lose out”?

    Russia – largest country on earth,
    – One of two military superpowers,
    – One of the world’s largest economies (7th largest economy) https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2001rank.html
    – largest oil producer
    – 2nd largest natural gas producer
    – 5th largest electricity producer

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  16. utu says:

    No BS at all, and a great deal of work has been done since the 1950s, including in math, neuroscience, and technology (including artificial intelligence), and basic science. Most all the new technology is based on cybernetic principles. Without cybernetics and it’s information theories you wouldn’t have a computer or internet to write on.

    Anyway, your initial comment was about society and how cybernetics will help to and blah, blah, blah. undersdand how it works and so on and that everything will be hunky-dory. So dot hide no behind mathematics and compete science. Social sciences can’t mathematized so you end with drawing silly diagrams and a lot fo hand waving.

    All accomplishments in math, neuroscience, technology (including artificial intelligence) were done w/o invoking cybernetics. Most people who did it were unaware that such an animal called cybernetics even exists. Cybernetics became superfluous. Cybernetics does not really exist except in the field of charlatanry which mostly focuses on social studies and economics and its chief tool is hand waving as these dis-liens are can’t mathematized. Only in Europe, chiefly in Eastern Europe some universities still have ‘cybernetics’ in names of some of their departments. Nobody pays attention to it.

    http://www.studienverlag.at/data.cfm?vpath=openaccess/oezg-42008-umpleby
    Why did the cybernetics movement break up following the Macy Conferences? Perhaps it never came together. People stayed in their home disciplines. Many very thought-provoking meetings were held under the label of cybernetics, but the educational programs that were established did not survive in discipline-oriented universities. When their founders retired, the programs were closed.

    Here is a good example how it function as a buzz word for most people:

    http://www.physics.nyu.edu/sokal/tallis.html
    I felt that I had misjudged him and wondered whether, after all, we did have more in common than I had thought. The next time I ran into Roger, I asked him about his interest in cybernetics; more particularly, I asked him what `cybernetics’ was. My ignorance was genuine, rather than assumed. To our embarrassment, we both discovered that Roger, too, was ignorant about the nature of cybernetics. For him, it was just a word. It had something to do with science and technology and the future and seemed rather glamorous and was much talked-about then. It was clearly just the thing to impress the readers of a provincial newspaper.

    CYBERNETICS IS BS AND HYPE FROM 1940s. If you are young and smart do not waste time with it. Study mathematics, IT, engineering, neuroscience or whatever and you will learn everything you are interested in w/o ever encountering cybernetics. But if you encounter it in the field of sociology or economy or society steering and control be assured you have met a charlatan.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Blue Pilgrim
    I'm 71, and have been involved with management, computer programming, and cybernetics in some form, if not by that name, for many decades. Cybernetics is behind or involved with much of the areas you mention. Perhaps you should look at some of the videos I linked to, or look up Norbert Weiner for a start https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norbert_Wiener . Check out the other early developers, who were also pioneers in information science and computing, physics and engineering, as well as organizational and management science, such as von Neumann and Shannon.

    Sorry, but you have no idea what you are talking about or what cybernetics is, or are just spouting. You are out of your depth. You might as well say chemistry, physics, or computer science, or emergence or system thinking, is nonsense, or W. E. Deming, the Total Management guy, is a charlatan. Take a look at Steve Keen's Minsky program and see if you find feedback loops and system dynamics and such in it. It's everywhere.
    Read the article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cybernetics

    Course at Stanford: Introduction to Cybernetics and Systems for Design. Autumn 2002 through 2007—Hugh Dubberly and Paul Pangaro
    http://www.pangaro.com/syllabi/cs377.html

    Regardless of what you are trying to achieve, knowledge of cybernetics is a powerful methodology to help, ignored at your peril -- and ignoring it is behind many of the catastrophes we currently face, especially the loss of democratic processes and effective control by the people. Read about Stafford Beer working with Allende before he was overthrown in the coup engineered by the US.
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  17. Ma Laoshi says:

    At one point, isn’t the Saker being deliberately obtuse to flatter his Russia-friendly audience? If Breedlove says “NATO is in no shape to fight Russia” this does not acknowledge the Bear’s martial prowess. Such statements by those kinds of figures are rather routine as he surely must know, and simply mean “We need more money”. Didn’t the Saker write just before this that that is what it’s always about?

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  18. @utu

    No BS at all, and a great deal of work has been done since the 1950s, including in math, neuroscience, and technology (including artificial intelligence), and basic science. Most all the new technology is based on cybernetic principles. Without cybernetics and it’s information theories you wouldn’t have a computer or internet to write on.
     
    Anyway, your initial comment was about society and how cybernetics will help to and blah, blah, blah. undersdand how it works and so on and that everything will be hunky-dory. So dot hide no behind mathematics and compete science. Social sciences can't mathematized so you end with drawing silly diagrams and a lot fo hand waving.

    All accomplishments in math, neuroscience, technology (including artificial intelligence) were done w/o invoking cybernetics. Most people who did it were unaware that such an animal called cybernetics even exists. Cybernetics became superfluous. Cybernetics does not really exist except in the field of charlatanry which mostly focuses on social studies and economics and its chief tool is hand waving as these dis-liens are can't mathematized. Only in Europe, chiefly in Eastern Europe some universities still have 'cybernetics' in names of some of their departments. Nobody pays attention to it.

    www.studienverlag.at/data.cfm?vpath=openaccess/oezg-42008-umpleby
    Why did the cybernetics movement break up following the Macy Conferences? Perhaps it never came together. People stayed in their home disciplines. Many very thought-provoking meetings were held under the label of cybernetics, but the educational programs that were established did not survive in discipline-oriented universities. When their founders retired, the programs were closed.
     
    Here is a good example how it function as a buzz word for most people:

    http://www.physics.nyu.edu/sokal/tallis.html
    I felt that I had misjudged him and wondered whether, after all, we did have more in common than I had thought. The next time I ran into Roger, I asked him about his interest in cybernetics; more particularly, I asked him what `cybernetics' was. My ignorance was genuine, rather than assumed. To our embarrassment, we both discovered that Roger, too, was ignorant about the nature of cybernetics. For him, it was just a word. It had something to do with science and technology and the future and seemed rather glamorous and was much talked-about then. It was clearly just the thing to impress the readers of a provincial newspaper.

     

    CYBERNETICS IS BS AND HYPE FROM 1940s. If you are young and smart do not waste time with it. Study mathematics, IT, engineering, neuroscience or whatever and you will learn everything you are interested in w/o ever encountering cybernetics. But if you encounter it in the field of sociology or economy or society steering and control be assured you have met a charlatan.

    I’m 71, and have been involved with management, computer programming, and cybernetics in some form, if not by that name, for many decades. Cybernetics is behind or involved with much of the areas you mention. Perhaps you should look at some of the videos I linked to, or look up Norbert Weiner for a start https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norbert_Wiener . Check out the other early developers, who were also pioneers in information science and computing, physics and engineering, as well as organizational and management science, such as von Neumann and Shannon.

    Sorry, but you have no idea what you are talking about or what cybernetics is, or are just spouting. You are out of your depth. You might as well say chemistry, physics, or computer science, or emergence or system thinking, is nonsense, or W. E. Deming, the Total Management guy, is a charlatan. Take a look at Steve Keen’s Minsky program and see if you find feedback loops and system dynamics and such in it. It’s everywhere.
    Read the article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cybernetics

    Course at Stanford: Introduction to Cybernetics and Systems for Design. Autumn 2002 through 2007—Hugh Dubberly and Paul Pangaro

    http://www.pangaro.com/syllabi/cs377.html

    Regardless of what you are trying to achieve, knowledge of cybernetics is a powerful methodology to help, ignored at your peril — and ignoring it is behind many of the catastrophes we currently face, especially the loss of democratic processes and effective control by the people. Read about Stafford Beer working with Allende before he was overthrown in the coup engineered by the US.

    Read More
    • Disagree: utu
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    Sounds great and you appear to be the expert.
    Nice....

    So....any suggestion as to how to apply cybernetics to solving some of pressing issues in this world?
    Pick any.

    If I may suggest, for example, the problem of technology destroying "traditional" blue collar, manufacturing jobs.
    Or, uncontrolled immigration.
    Or, increasing likelihood of serious clash between nuclear powers.

    Or, you can expand on that " especially the loss of democratic processes and effective control by the people".
    Personally can't recollect the last time when the people have any effective control but that's another matter.

    Give it a shot.

    As for

    I’m 71, and have been involved with management, computer programming, and cybernetics in some form, if not by that name, for many decades.
     
    I am somewhat younger but also have been involved in those things. Perhaps not at your level, but, still.

    "Real programmers use assembly"?
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  19. @Quartermaster

    "True, there was this latest idiocy by the Dutch who now are saying that it was a “Russian” unit which shot down MH-17. I don’t know why they would bother coming up with this latest nonsense right now, this might be a desperate hope by some hardcore NATO Cold Warriors, but in the current political climate this is going largely unnoticed."
     
    The only thing idiotic is that you still think anyone with two brain cells to run together is going to believe the lie that Russian troops did not shoot down MH-17. Keep whistling past the graveyard.

    the (((Kiev regime))) – whose Air Traffic Control re-routed MH-17 into the kill zone in the first place -

    is, in the second place, still refusing to release the ATC tape.

    (note lack of insults in this comment; generally, argument-via-insult is a suspicious tactic; tho not as suspicious as the (((Kiev regime)))’s refusal to release the ATC tape).

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  20. Dmitry says:

    Well Saker you are from Switzerland – so in response to this comment:

    the triangle Israel-Palestine-Iran presents a crucial spiritual, ethical, moral and civilizational challenge to Russia, one which she cannot ignore and one which most likely will determine her future. .

    I don’t think so – unless you would also say:

    “The triangle Israel-Palestine-Iran presents a crucial spiritual, ethical, moral and civilizational challenge to Switzerland.”

    Conflict between Middle Eastern states, has as much spiritual, ethical, moral and civilizational challenge to Russia, as to Switzerland, or various other countries.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
    You have completely missed the crux of Saker's argument. Obviously, Iran/Israel is not a big issue for Switzerland, since that nation has already sold its soul to the Anglo-Zionist cabal. To save itself, Saker argues, Russia must make a different choice.
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  21. So Saker you already conclude that the american people will take this victimization for ever?
    We have been delivered for a multi dimensional pillage ,300 millions versus 2000,and we will do nothing?

    Will have to wait for the iranians,koreans ,china and putin for us to get rid of this elite or wait for the colapse of the dollar?

    If so what that will do to our civilizational realm?

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  22. @Dmitry
    Well Saker you are from Switzerland - so in response to this comment:

    the triangle Israel-Palestine-Iran presents a crucial spiritual, ethical, moral and civilizational challenge to Russia, one which she cannot ignore and one which most likely will determine her future. .
     
    I don't think so - unless you would also say:

    "The triangle Israel-Palestine-Iran presents a crucial spiritual, ethical, moral and civilizational challenge to Switzerland."

    Conflict between Middle Eastern states, has as much spiritual, ethical, moral and civilizational challenge to Russia, as to Switzerland, or various other countries.

    You have completely missed the crux of Saker’s argument. Obviously, Iran/Israel is not a big issue for Switzerland, since that nation has already sold its soul to the Anglo-Zionist cabal. To save itself, Saker argues, Russia must make a different choice.

    Read More
    • Agree: RobinG
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Switzerland is lowering taxes, increasing pension payments, and banning minarets. Each of which benefits them, more than any issue could in the Middle East.

    As for Russia - even with a somehow successful total victory for Iran (or for Israel, whichever of the two sides Kremlin favoured in a war which is not clear at the moment), there would be the most limited benefit to the country, beyond arms sales and some influence increase. And certainly no civilization advancement.

    The only way to benefit in a significant way from the Middle East is to 'conquer it and steal their oil' (in the dream of Trump), while preventing their people from emigrating to you.

    The region is mostly giant trap, where the best move is usually stand back and order popcorn. It's one of the most obvious trap regions in the world, even for people who like the climate, or support one of the different sides of conflict for moral, personal or aesthetic reasons.
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  23. Kirt says:

    OT, but in other essays, Saker, you have written of Venezuela as the country the US is most likely to invade next. I read where Colombia is to be the first Latin American country to join NATO and this will be formalized in a matter of days. Do you think that this is so Colombia can provide the majority of the boots-on-the-ground for the invasion and occupation of Venezuela? The US, of course, will provide the drones and air strikes and will probably partner with the Colombian armed forces on the spec-op death squads.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ma Laoshi
    Venezuela may have been mostly Tillerson's thing, he's never forgotten nor forgiven that Chavez nationalized Exxon assets. Now that T-Rex is out, that particular drumbeat seems to have quieted down. Might still be used as a warm-up war: before Iran, whack an essentially defenseless country to show Trump's voters that Frische Froehliche Krieg is still a thing. And of course oil is still oil any day of the week.
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  24. Ma Laoshi says:
    @Kirt
    OT, but in other essays, Saker, you have written of Venezuela as the country the US is most likely to invade next. I read where Colombia is to be the first Latin American country to join NATO and this will be formalized in a matter of days. Do you think that this is so Colombia can provide the majority of the boots-on-the-ground for the invasion and occupation of Venezuela? The US, of course, will provide the drones and air strikes and will probably partner with the Colombian armed forces on the spec-op death squads.

    Venezuela may have been mostly Tillerson’s thing, he’s never forgotten nor forgiven that Chavez nationalized Exxon assets. Now that T-Rex is out, that particular drumbeat seems to have quieted down. Might still be used as a warm-up war: before Iran, whack an essentially defenseless country to show Trump’s voters that Frische Froehliche Krieg is still a thing. And of course oil is still oil any day of the week.

    Read More
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  25. Sean says:

    British obligations to allow consular access to both Skripals

    Turns out, there are billions of dollars to be made in Russia, who would have thought?

    Well obviously, the Russian economy is almost as big as New York State’s

    latest idiocy by the Dutch

    They have a reputation for trying to excupate their piolots as with the Canary Island Pan Am and KLM Boeing 747s crash which was not caused by controllers being distracted by a football match on a small radio in the control tower as the Dutch investigators claimed, but rather by the Dutch pilot plane trying to take off without permission: the most elementary mistake there is .

    It is ridiculous to claim that Russia would ever be attacked by the US. The US trying to say Putin rigged elections, and assisting colour revolution type organizing is as far as the US has gone or would ever have dared to go. The US only went into Libya because Medvedev agreed not to veto it in the UN security Council, and Obama did not order a massive air strike on Assad when he easily could have overthrown him with it. John Bolton chickened out of serving in Vietnam, you think he would take at least as big a risk by starting a war with Russia? The Armed Forces of America are not going to get into it with Russia, and you can take that to the bank.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    " Dutch pilot plane trying to take off without permission: the most elementary mistake there is . "

    Indeed, and the second pilot said ' I do not believe w've start permission'.
    The answer was 'I fly this plane'.
    I must add the captain was under a lot of stress, not starting then would have cost millions.

    , @animalogic
    I agree that the US has no wish to go to war with Russia. No, the US simply wants regime change. A return to the rule of a Yeltsin type of government. A Russia completely submissive in foreign affairs & completely open to exploitation of its economy. That's the best way to destroy a country.
    , @renfro

    The Armed Forces of America are not going to get into it with Russia, and you can take that to the bank
     
    I think that is about 90% true.....in that I believe that is where US Military Command would finally revolt and refuse.
    But there are literal psychopaths like Bolton and his zio crew that would like nothing better.
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  26. peterAUS says:
    @Blue Pilgrim
    I'm 71, and have been involved with management, computer programming, and cybernetics in some form, if not by that name, for many decades. Cybernetics is behind or involved with much of the areas you mention. Perhaps you should look at some of the videos I linked to, or look up Norbert Weiner for a start https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norbert_Wiener . Check out the other early developers, who were also pioneers in information science and computing, physics and engineering, as well as organizational and management science, such as von Neumann and Shannon.

    Sorry, but you have no idea what you are talking about or what cybernetics is, or are just spouting. You are out of your depth. You might as well say chemistry, physics, or computer science, or emergence or system thinking, is nonsense, or W. E. Deming, the Total Management guy, is a charlatan. Take a look at Steve Keen's Minsky program and see if you find feedback loops and system dynamics and such in it. It's everywhere.
    Read the article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cybernetics

    Course at Stanford: Introduction to Cybernetics and Systems for Design. Autumn 2002 through 2007—Hugh Dubberly and Paul Pangaro
    http://www.pangaro.com/syllabi/cs377.html

    Regardless of what you are trying to achieve, knowledge of cybernetics is a powerful methodology to help, ignored at your peril -- and ignoring it is behind many of the catastrophes we currently face, especially the loss of democratic processes and effective control by the people. Read about Stafford Beer working with Allende before he was overthrown in the coup engineered by the US.

    Sounds great and you appear to be the expert.
    Nice….

    So….any suggestion as to how to apply cybernetics to solving some of pressing issues in this world?
    Pick any.

    If I may suggest, for example, the problem of technology destroying “traditional” blue collar, manufacturing jobs.
    Or, uncontrolled immigration.
    Or, increasing likelihood of serious clash between nuclear powers.

    Or, you can expand on that ” especially the loss of democratic processes and effective control by the people”.
    Personally can’t recollect the last time when the people have any effective control but that’s another matter.

    Give it a shot.

    As for

    I’m 71, and have been involved with management, computer programming, and cybernetics in some form, if not by that name, for many decades.

    I am somewhat younger but also have been involved in those things. Perhaps not at your level, but, still.

    “Real programmers use assembly”?

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu

    as to how to apply cybernetics to solving some of pressing issues in this world
     
    It is very simple. You draw a circle or a square and one arrow pointing to it and one arrow pointing away from it and then you draw a line connecting the two arrows to indicate a loop of the feedback and then you do a lot hand waving with one hand repeatedly pointing to the drawing you made and you keep tossing in the word cybernetics in every other sentence.
    , @Blue Pilgrim
    (Not a real expert, but have some experience and some study behind me.)

    "Real programmers use C, with assembly subroutines where needed" Assembly is a pain in the neck and takes too long to write. In short you use high level and low level as appropriate. And you do proper testing to make sure the program works right, using all sorts of test data -- not just the stuff that is easy to handle, but nasty exceptions too, and with graceful error correction.
    Good programs also use modeling that accurately and usefully reflect the real world, and which are compatible with the way the clients (users) work and understand their jobs. The clients/users understand their world and job better than anyone else, so are the primary source of what the program should do and how.

    That's not so different from any good management or governance, or doing things intelligently. The principles of competence are broad and apply most everywhere, and have to include good communication, feedback, and evaluation. And that last point is why democracy is so important, why input (feedback), and communication, from the people is so critical. It's why the brass in the military need to hear what the lower level troops see and say, and why companies need to pay attention to the workers on the floor (be it factory or retail floors).

    The real source of knowledge, even if needed to be properly aggregated and interpreted, is found at the low level, common people sectors, and abstraction has to be subservient to those realities.

    Ask the people: do they want war (especially nuclear war)? They know the right answer -- of course not. Do the elite allow a vote on this, or even truthful information to get out? Not at all. Basic violation of feedback. A vote for another fascist every 2 or 4 years and ignoring people otherwise violate requisite variety rule -- i.e., leads to the controlling elites having no clue what is really going on, and substituting manipulation, deceptive propaganda and brainwashing for democratic process.

    And then, without the wars and exploitation of other countries, there would be immigration crisis as people fled from their native areas which have become filled with violence or unlivable. And there would be no need to demonized immigrants in the US, which are sill just a small portion of the population, as scapegoats. And with good representation from workers -- honest and effective unions -- skilled workers could not easily pushed out for the cheaper labor of undocumented immigrants desperate for any kind of work so they can stay alive, and have so little power they can't object to being exploited, while being threatened with deportation.

    If companies were run by the workers they could take advantage of automation and not lose all their income, and could largely avoid their jobs being shipped overseas and left on the street so that the wealthy owners got even richer. (See https://www.democracyatwork.info/ ).

    The social, economic, and political system in the US now is unsustainable -- 'nonviable' -- and those who run it either ignore the reality or are unaware of it or don't know what to do to change it. The management and control methods are atrocious. The root word for cybernetics goes back to the ancient Greek for 'steer'; where is this 'ship of state' and world, being steered, how, and by whom? What voice (feedback) do the people have in the decisions? It's like a house heating system without a thermostat. It's like the song 'Hip deep in the big muddy'. It's not even a real system when you take the whole country, or world, into consideration.
    , @Blue Pilgrim
    You might like this (2 1/2 hours) He was very involved in the management angle of cybernetics

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ybjOw6UJ8A
    CYBERNETICS & "THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE" by STAFFORD BEER Parts 1&2 //Javier Livas
    Published on Jan 12, 2013

    Stafford Beer explains how cybernetics is involved in a democracy. This conference is more than 30 years young. Stafford makes a strong case for his approach to management using the idea of VARIETY, which he uses to build the homeostats that link the 5 systems of the Viable System Model. The conference involves the attendees in an effort to get them to start thinking using the new language of Management Cybernetics. This video was given to me by the folks at John Moore University in Manchester where Stafford Beer's collection of papers and books are also held in custody.
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  27. utu says:
    @peterAUS
    Sounds great and you appear to be the expert.
    Nice....

    So....any suggestion as to how to apply cybernetics to solving some of pressing issues in this world?
    Pick any.

    If I may suggest, for example, the problem of technology destroying "traditional" blue collar, manufacturing jobs.
    Or, uncontrolled immigration.
    Or, increasing likelihood of serious clash between nuclear powers.

    Or, you can expand on that " especially the loss of democratic processes and effective control by the people".
    Personally can't recollect the last time when the people have any effective control but that's another matter.

    Give it a shot.

    As for

    I’m 71, and have been involved with management, computer programming, and cybernetics in some form, if not by that name, for many decades.
     
    I am somewhat younger but also have been involved in those things. Perhaps not at your level, but, still.

    "Real programmers use assembly"?

    as to how to apply cybernetics to solving some of pressing issues in this world

    It is very simple. You draw a circle or a square and one arrow pointing to it and one arrow pointing away from it and then you draw a line connecting the two arrows to indicate a loop of the feedback and then you do a lot hand waving with one hand repeatedly pointing to the drawing you made and you keep tossing in the word cybernetics in every other sentence.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Blue Pilgrim
    "It is very simple."
    Except for this stuff:
    http://www.cybsoc.org/
    The Cybernetics Society holds scientific meetings, conferences, and social events, and engages in other activities to encourage public understanding of science and to extend and disseminate knowledge of cybernetics and its associated disciplines. The Society aims to support the Continuing Professional Development of its members. The Cybernetics Society is a member society of the International Federation for Systems Research and is affiliated to the World Organisation of Systems and Cybernetics.

    The site includes links to various conferences and resources around the world, as well as information.
    , @NZLex
    Here's some of that hand waving you mentioned...

    Couldn't find any diagrams, but I've seen similar "feedback loop" shape-art before.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phw3N6pj2-E

    Of course, I'm sure it's all very clever and will greatly help us all be slaves to robots someday.
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  28. RobinG says:
    @Robert Magill

    If you want the Russian economy integrated into the western markets and financial sphere, if you believe that the correct economic path of development for Russia is western-style liberal capitalism,if you believe that the Zionist lobby in Russia does not exist or is not an issue, then you truly have cause to rejoice and, indeed, many have (including my friend Alexander Mercouris at The Duran)
     
    Or if, unlike the Saker, you see Putin embracing Xi's model of business first; quietly but strongly. The Belt and Road does in fact connect through Russia and with Russia but Western eyes cannot focus clearly on China somehow. It's a big country; must be the eastern sun in our eyes.  

    https://robertmagill.wordpress.com/2018/05/16/is-chairman-xi-modeling-kubilai-khan/

    …..and Putin’s model -
    “The Russian president said France is an old and reliable partner of Russia, as well as Germany. “We very much count on the fact that our French friends, companies will develop in Russia, will receive income and profit.”

    Putin also noted that Russian-French business ties are diversified since the countries work in many spheres from space to pharmaceuticals. But Russia’s leading economic partner is now China, not France or Germany, Putin pointed out.”

    Putin Pokes Fun At Macron Over “Huge” French Investments In Russia

    Read More
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  29. Dmitry says:
    @Felix Keverich
    You have completely missed the crux of Saker's argument. Obviously, Iran/Israel is not a big issue for Switzerland, since that nation has already sold its soul to the Anglo-Zionist cabal. To save itself, Saker argues, Russia must make a different choice.

    Switzerland is lowering taxes, increasing pension payments, and banning minarets. Each of which benefits them, more than any issue could in the Middle East.

    As for Russia – even with a somehow successful total victory for Iran (or for Israel, whichever of the two sides Kremlin favoured in a war which is not clear at the moment), there would be the most limited benefit to the country, beyond arms sales and some influence increase. And certainly no civilization advancement.

    The only way to benefit in a significant way from the Middle East is to ‘conquer it and steal their oil’ (in the dream of Trump), while preventing their people from emigrating to you.

    The region is mostly giant trap, where the best move is usually stand back and order popcorn. It’s one of the most obvious trap regions in the world, even for people who like the climate, or support one of the different sides of conflict for moral, personal or aesthetic reasons.

    Read More
    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @Johann Ricke

    The only way to benefit in a significant way from the Middle East is to ‘conquer it and steal their oil’ (in the dream of Trump), while preventing their people from emigrating to you.
     
    In the old days, you'd do what Muhammad did - conquer and assimilate them into the empire. The recalcitrants would be killed. Odd enough, that's what the Chinese are now attempting to do to the Uighurs.
    , @anon
    Russia is begging to be accepted by the US and UK as White European Christian .
    China knows the weakness and it won't allow itself to be dependent on Russia.

    Iran should work with Israel and Soros and finish whatever is left of the west . China will take care of Russia .

    Europe should be put back where it was before those chartered companies sailed forth in search of the loot .
    , @anoni
    [The only way to benefit in a significant way from the Middle East is to ‘conquer it and steal their oil’ (in the dream of Trump), while preventing their people from emigrating to you.


    You and the one who 'AGREED', Karlin are racist zionists from Jewish mafia who must be destroyed to save humanity. How much more do you want to STEAL racist mafia.
    You racist baby killers ,for time being get the following, but you will get something much bigger later racists, thieves, terrorists.

    People of this site should expose these racist scums all over the world

    https://thumb9.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/2704768/446105755/stock-vector-red-hand-with-middle-finger-icon-concept-of-nonverbal-fuck-you-brutal-rebel-furious-lifestyle-446105755.jpg

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  30. @peterAUS
    Sounds great and you appear to be the expert.
    Nice....

    So....any suggestion as to how to apply cybernetics to solving some of pressing issues in this world?
    Pick any.

    If I may suggest, for example, the problem of technology destroying "traditional" blue collar, manufacturing jobs.
    Or, uncontrolled immigration.
    Or, increasing likelihood of serious clash between nuclear powers.

    Or, you can expand on that " especially the loss of democratic processes and effective control by the people".
    Personally can't recollect the last time when the people have any effective control but that's another matter.

    Give it a shot.

    As for

    I’m 71, and have been involved with management, computer programming, and cybernetics in some form, if not by that name, for many decades.
     
    I am somewhat younger but also have been involved in those things. Perhaps not at your level, but, still.

    "Real programmers use assembly"?

    (Not a real expert, but have some experience and some study behind me.)

    “Real programmers use C, with assembly subroutines where needed” Assembly is a pain in the neck and takes too long to write. In short you use high level and low level as appropriate. And you do proper testing to make sure the program works right, using all sorts of test data — not just the stuff that is easy to handle, but nasty exceptions too, and with graceful error correction.
    Good programs also use modeling that accurately and usefully reflect the real world, and which are compatible with the way the clients (users) work and understand their jobs. The clients/users understand their world and job better than anyone else, so are the primary source of what the program should do and how.

    That’s not so different from any good management or governance, or doing things intelligently. The principles of competence are broad and apply most everywhere, and have to include good communication, feedback, and evaluation. And that last point is why democracy is so important, why input (feedback), and communication, from the people is so critical. It’s why the brass in the military need to hear what the lower level troops see and say, and why companies need to pay attention to the workers on the floor (be it factory or retail floors).

    The real source of knowledge, even if needed to be properly aggregated and interpreted, is found at the low level, common people sectors, and abstraction has to be subservient to those realities.

    Ask the people: do they want war (especially nuclear war)? They know the right answer — of course not. Do the elite allow a vote on this, or even truthful information to get out? Not at all. Basic violation of feedback. A vote for another fascist every 2 or 4 years and ignoring people otherwise violate requisite variety rule — i.e., leads to the controlling elites having no clue what is really going on, and substituting manipulation, deceptive propaganda and brainwashing for democratic process.

    And then, without the wars and exploitation of other countries, there would be immigration crisis as people fled from their native areas which have become filled with violence or unlivable. And there would be no need to demonized immigrants in the US, which are sill just a small portion of the population, as scapegoats. And with good representation from workers — honest and effective unions — skilled workers could not easily pushed out for the cheaper labor of undocumented immigrants desperate for any kind of work so they can stay alive, and have so little power they can’t object to being exploited, while being threatened with deportation.

    If companies were run by the workers they could take advantage of automation and not lose all their income, and could largely avoid their jobs being shipped overseas and left on the street so that the wealthy owners got even richer. (See https://www.democracyatwork.info/ ).

    The social, economic, and political system in the US now is unsustainable — ‘nonviable’ — and those who run it either ignore the reality or are unaware of it or don’t know what to do to change it. The management and control methods are atrocious. The root word for cybernetics goes back to the ancient Greek for ‘steer’; where is this ‘ship of state’ and world, being steered, how, and by whom? What voice (feedback) do the people have in the decisions? It’s like a house heating system without a thermostat. It’s like the song ‘Hip deep in the big muddy’. It’s not even a real system when you take the whole country, or world, into consideration.

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    Wow......
    Coherent, well put and thoughtful.
    I'll try to reply at the same level.

    One caveat. You ...appear....to be optimist, humanist etc. I am not. Cynic would be appropriate classification.

    Can't believe we are talking IT pro stuff here.
    So, just in brief: you can't write zero day exploits without deep understanding of assembly on that very chip level down to individual bit manipulation. Let's not go there......

    As for the rest, well, you used broad strokes. I was hoping for a more detailed and specific response.
    No offense but feels simplistic.

    I guess we could spend months debating this, let's not do that. I'll make my position clear re your paragraphs:
    From

    That’s not so different...
     
    to

    ..to those realities.
     
    agree.
    From

    Ask the people....
     
    to

    for democratic process.
     
    Disagree. Common people aren't that differnent from elites. They don't mind wars if they are on the winning side. Did I say "cynic"?
    From

    And then, without the wars and
     
    to
    Actually...hahaha...oh man...did you write "undocumented immigrants" !?! Man, I missed it in the first skim. My fault. Apologies.

    Sorry, nothing personal, but you and me, say, don't need to waste time on each other re anything out of pure technical stuff.
    Two worlds.

    Moving on.
    , @Saxon

    immigrants in the US, which are sill just a small portion of the population
     
    Small percentage? In the under 20s age group, the native founding racial stock of Europeans are now a minority, and that's with a skewed definition of what "white" is that includes various non-Europeans.

    You and I have a different definition of "small." This is genocide levels of immigration. It is transformative, nation-ending, civilization-ending, race-ending immigration levels.

    Then again your entire post is full of lunatic bromides like "undocumented immigrants" so I guess I shouldn't be surprised at how insane you are.
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  31. The problem of Russia starting since 90s is that she is constantly looking up to so done else to join and rely upon to develop. It was complete surrender by traitorous mutated Soviet elites which is continuing. Instead of using old Lenin Stalin book to develop relying upon own resources it is either joining eest or east. If anyone will say that under Putin Russia is trying to develop based upon promoting and developing own people and resources I shall have a laugh. Some are delusional. Putin had mandate to get rid of those who brought Russia to where she is and he instead picked them to govern again. It is like with Trump. He was picking warmongers and neocons and people thought that was sort of sly strategy. The team makes a king. Putin’s goal as he said is to rise incomes. Well, in capitalistic countries income can both rise and fall and nothing is permanent. Russian people lost basically all their rights and properties. It is freaking theartger and I do not believe anything good will come of this. I give one year but I am not optimistic. The only way for Russia forward is towards socialism albeit modificated based upon experience. Otherwise expect merry go around for another 25 years.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
    Stalin's model of development: starving millions of peasants, in order to sell their grain to the West, using the proceeds to buy industrial machines in the West, hiring American engineers to design Magnitogorsk, using Russian slave labor to build it.

    It is no wonder there are no takers for this model in contemporary Russia, Soviet nostalgia notwithstanding.

    When the Soviet Union collapsed, they still had 1930s American equipment installed in Magnitogorsk! The regime was sterile, unable to innovate and actually develop on its own.
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  32. @peterAUS
    Sounds great and you appear to be the expert.
    Nice....

    So....any suggestion as to how to apply cybernetics to solving some of pressing issues in this world?
    Pick any.

    If I may suggest, for example, the problem of technology destroying "traditional" blue collar, manufacturing jobs.
    Or, uncontrolled immigration.
    Or, increasing likelihood of serious clash between nuclear powers.

    Or, you can expand on that " especially the loss of democratic processes and effective control by the people".
    Personally can't recollect the last time when the people have any effective control but that's another matter.

    Give it a shot.

    As for

    I’m 71, and have been involved with management, computer programming, and cybernetics in some form, if not by that name, for many decades.
     
    I am somewhat younger but also have been involved in those things. Perhaps not at your level, but, still.

    "Real programmers use assembly"?

    You might like this (2 1/2 hours) He was very involved in the management angle of cybernetics

    CYBERNETICS & “THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE” by STAFFORD BEER Parts 1&2 //Javier Livas
    Published on Jan 12, 2013

    Stafford Beer explains how cybernetics is involved in a democracy. This conference is more than 30 years young. Stafford makes a strong case for his approach to management using the idea of VARIETY, which he uses to build the homeostats that link the 5 systems of the Viable System Model. The conference involves the attendees in an effort to get them to start thinking using the new language of Management Cybernetics. This video was given to me by the folks at John Moore University in Manchester where Stafford Beer’s collection of papers and books are also held in custody.

    Read More
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  33. @utu

    as to how to apply cybernetics to solving some of pressing issues in this world
     
    It is very simple. You draw a circle or a square and one arrow pointing to it and one arrow pointing away from it and then you draw a line connecting the two arrows to indicate a loop of the feedback and then you do a lot hand waving with one hand repeatedly pointing to the drawing you made and you keep tossing in the word cybernetics in every other sentence.

    “It is very simple.”
    Except for this stuff:

    http://www.cybsoc.org/

    The Cybernetics Society holds scientific meetings, conferences, and social events, and engages in other activities to encourage public understanding of science and to extend and disseminate knowledge of cybernetics and its associated disciplines. The Society aims to support the Continuing Professional Development of its members. The Cybernetics Society is a member society of the International Federation for Systems Research and is affiliated to the World Organisation of Systems and Cybernetics.

    The site includes links to various conferences and resources around the world, as well as information.

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu
    I was wrong. It is way more complicated than I thought. I said that cybernetics is one box and two arrows but sometimes it is one box and four arrows:

    19:42 at

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1175&v=2ybjOw6UJ8A

    and then lots of hand waving. And then there are even more complex idea like at 1:16:55 he draws two blobs and two arrows connecting them and claims he gets 'ferocious scientific accuracy' from this drawing.

    It is all BS. Hand waving and buzz words. They never calculated anything, they never predicted anything.
    , @ploni almoni
    So do Esperantists.
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  34. peterAUS says:
    @Blue Pilgrim
    (Not a real expert, but have some experience and some study behind me.)

    "Real programmers use C, with assembly subroutines where needed" Assembly is a pain in the neck and takes too long to write. In short you use high level and low level as appropriate. And you do proper testing to make sure the program works right, using all sorts of test data -- not just the stuff that is easy to handle, but nasty exceptions too, and with graceful error correction.
    Good programs also use modeling that accurately and usefully reflect the real world, and which are compatible with the way the clients (users) work and understand their jobs. The clients/users understand their world and job better than anyone else, so are the primary source of what the program should do and how.

    That's not so different from any good management or governance, or doing things intelligently. The principles of competence are broad and apply most everywhere, and have to include good communication, feedback, and evaluation. And that last point is why democracy is so important, why input (feedback), and communication, from the people is so critical. It's why the brass in the military need to hear what the lower level troops see and say, and why companies need to pay attention to the workers on the floor (be it factory or retail floors).

    The real source of knowledge, even if needed to be properly aggregated and interpreted, is found at the low level, common people sectors, and abstraction has to be subservient to those realities.

    Ask the people: do they want war (especially nuclear war)? They know the right answer -- of course not. Do the elite allow a vote on this, or even truthful information to get out? Not at all. Basic violation of feedback. A vote for another fascist every 2 or 4 years and ignoring people otherwise violate requisite variety rule -- i.e., leads to the controlling elites having no clue what is really going on, and substituting manipulation, deceptive propaganda and brainwashing for democratic process.

    And then, without the wars and exploitation of other countries, there would be immigration crisis as people fled from their native areas which have become filled with violence or unlivable. And there would be no need to demonized immigrants in the US, which are sill just a small portion of the population, as scapegoats. And with good representation from workers -- honest and effective unions -- skilled workers could not easily pushed out for the cheaper labor of undocumented immigrants desperate for any kind of work so they can stay alive, and have so little power they can't object to being exploited, while being threatened with deportation.

    If companies were run by the workers they could take advantage of automation and not lose all their income, and could largely avoid their jobs being shipped overseas and left on the street so that the wealthy owners got even richer. (See https://www.democracyatwork.info/ ).

    The social, economic, and political system in the US now is unsustainable -- 'nonviable' -- and those who run it either ignore the reality or are unaware of it or don't know what to do to change it. The management and control methods are atrocious. The root word for cybernetics goes back to the ancient Greek for 'steer'; where is this 'ship of state' and world, being steered, how, and by whom? What voice (feedback) do the people have in the decisions? It's like a house heating system without a thermostat. It's like the song 'Hip deep in the big muddy'. It's not even a real system when you take the whole country, or world, into consideration.

    Wow……
    Coherent, well put and thoughtful.
    I’ll try to reply at the same level.

    One caveat. You …appear….to be optimist, humanist etc. I am not. Cynic would be appropriate classification.

    Can’t believe we are talking IT pro stuff here.
    So, just in brief: you can’t write zero day exploits without deep understanding of assembly on that very chip level down to individual bit manipulation. Let’s not go there……

    As for the rest, well, you used broad strokes. I was hoping for a more detailed and specific response.
    No offense but feels simplistic.

    I guess we could spend months debating this, let’s not do that. I’ll make my position clear re your paragraphs:
    From

    That’s not so different…

    to

    ..to those realities.

    agree.
    From

    Ask the people….

    to

    for democratic process.

    Disagree. Common people aren’t that differnent from elites. They don’t mind wars if they are on the winning side. Did I say “cynic”?
    From

    And then, without the wars and

    to
    Actually…hahaha…oh man…did you write “undocumented immigrants” !?! Man, I missed it in the first skim. My fault. Apologies.

    Sorry, nothing personal, but you and me, say, don’t need to waste time on each other re anything out of pure technical stuff.
    Two worlds.

    Moving on.

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  35. I’m not so much IT Pro as old computer programmer — and there ain’t no in money programming old computers.

    I’m pretty cynical myself — I know what could be done but don’t expect to see it any time soon. People don’t usually understand this material or know it exists. See the videos, management papers, and such for more specific stuff, like how to design feedback methods and do metrics, and the question is like ‘how should one determine unemployment figures so they reflect reality?’ or ‘How should weapons testing be done to avoid cheating?’, and ‘how should the information gathered be made available to the public?’ It’s generally hard to go from general to specific, and we need well framed questions to do that.

    As for system stuff, you might say the the US, EU, and Russia to a lesser degree, and even less so China, we have a problem with several systems, with several goals, trying to run and dominate simultaneously. Xi seems to have a good handle on China with a lot of power, which may be bad for democracy, but good for system integrity and viability (if he does it right). On the other end of the scale, the US has neither system integrity nor democracy, but warlords and factions contending with other for power and money, in the midst of corruption and cronyism (which produces all the dogs for weapon systems, as well as societal breakdown and polarization. In Russia, Putin is consolidating his power, weakening the Atlanticists despite their presence in the government, while still working on strengthening cultural cohesion and the domestic and social systems (with much work remaining). China and Russia are going up while the US is going down, and the first two are working on building sustainable, viable systems.

    In terms of cybernetics and communication (to give one specific), Putin’s annual Q&A is delightful, and no US politician can hope to match it. How much better than the US politicians who deny there is a problem and either denigrate or arrest those who ask questions or object to policies.

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  36. @Dmitry
    Switzerland is lowering taxes, increasing pension payments, and banning minarets. Each of which benefits them, more than any issue could in the Middle East.

    As for Russia - even with a somehow successful total victory for Iran (or for Israel, whichever of the two sides Kremlin favoured in a war which is not clear at the moment), there would be the most limited benefit to the country, beyond arms sales and some influence increase. And certainly no civilization advancement.

    The only way to benefit in a significant way from the Middle East is to 'conquer it and steal their oil' (in the dream of Trump), while preventing their people from emigrating to you.

    The region is mostly giant trap, where the best move is usually stand back and order popcorn. It's one of the most obvious trap regions in the world, even for people who like the climate, or support one of the different sides of conflict for moral, personal or aesthetic reasons.

    The only way to benefit in a significant way from the Middle East is to ‘conquer it and steal their oil’ (in the dream of Trump), while preventing their people from emigrating to you.

    In the old days, you’d do what Muhammad did – conquer and assimilate them into the empire. The recalcitrants would be killed. Odd enough, that’s what the Chinese are now attempting to do to the Uighurs.

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    • Replies: @anonymous
    Pagan polytheists -non-Muslims if it is not clear enough- are dead men walking anyway, if only you knew what awaits your spiritually bereft souls.
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  37. Anon[463] • Disclaimer says:

    Typo alert!

    “Iulia Skripal has been allowed to make a recorded statement on video where she is seen writing a statement in English and Russian.”

    Well I saw the video and I thought she was ‘reading’ the statement. Probably she didn’t write the statement either.

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  38. A poll among the readers of the Dutch most read newspaper shows that with these average Dutch there is no doubt whatsoever that Russia did it.

    https://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/2082679/uitslag-stelling-poetin-blijft-westen-tarten

    Putin is now more guilty than ever because he refuses to admit guilt.
    Nowhere anywhere the question is asked what benefit Russian or rebels got from shootin down a passenger plane.
    There was an article here about shooting down an Iranian passenger plane by a USA warship, also there I missed the ‘why’.
    I wrote to Dutch media an politicians about the missing ‘why’ (on earth), never any reply.
    As just the west benefitted from the disaster, the Netherlands literally overnight agreed to economic sanctions, for me the west, including Ukraine, is the first suspect.
    Until now I did not see anyhing uttered or written by a Dutchman, or -woman, where the same idea is uttered.
    I wonder why in tv detectives the first thing discussed after a crime is ‘who benefits ?’, but why in the MH17 case it seems to be assumed that Russia and/or the rebels are so wicked that they shoot down a passenger plane for fun, even if the most stupid Russian or rebel would have realised that they’re also hurting themselves.
    Goebbels was quite right, repeating the same over and over again, since the disaster, makes it a fact.

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    • Replies: @Wally
    said:
    "Goebbels was quite right, repeating the same over and over again, since the disaster, makes it a fact."

    Actually Goebbels was referring to the propaganda being spread about Germany.

    "“The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country.”

    ―Zionist Edward L. Bernays
     
    www.codoh.com
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  39. anon[144] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dmitry
    Switzerland is lowering taxes, increasing pension payments, and banning minarets. Each of which benefits them, more than any issue could in the Middle East.

    As for Russia - even with a somehow successful total victory for Iran (or for Israel, whichever of the two sides Kremlin favoured in a war which is not clear at the moment), there would be the most limited benefit to the country, beyond arms sales and some influence increase. And certainly no civilization advancement.

    The only way to benefit in a significant way from the Middle East is to 'conquer it and steal their oil' (in the dream of Trump), while preventing their people from emigrating to you.

    The region is mostly giant trap, where the best move is usually stand back and order popcorn. It's one of the most obvious trap regions in the world, even for people who like the climate, or support one of the different sides of conflict for moral, personal or aesthetic reasons.

    Russia is begging to be accepted by the US and UK as White European Christian .
    China knows the weakness and it won’t allow itself to be dependent on Russia.

    Iran should work with Israel and Soros and finish whatever is left of the west . China will take care of Russia .

    Europe should be put back where it was before those chartered companies sailed forth in search of the loot .

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    • Replies: @EagleEyeX
    Excellent comment !!! Stupendous !! The error however is that no one can "work" with Soros or Israkill, they can only be exploited, consumed, and discarded by them....take that to the bank.
    , @Moi
    Agree only with your first sentence. Putin is weak and, no matter who much sand we kick in his face, desperately wants Russia to be integrated with the west.
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  40. @Sean

    British obligations to allow consular access to both Skripals
     
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwC_IaY3BmY

    Turns out, there are billions of dollars to be made in Russia, who would have thought?
     
    Well obviously, the Russian economy is almost as big as New York State's

    latest idiocy by the Dutch
     
    They have a reputation for trying to excupate their piolots as with the Canary Island Pan Am and KLM Boeing 747s crash which was not caused by controllers being distracted by a football match on a small radio in the control tower as the Dutch investigators claimed, but rather by the Dutch pilot plane trying to take off without permission: the most elementary mistake there is .

    It is ridiculous to claim that Russia would ever be attacked by the US. The US trying to say Putin rigged elections, and assisting colour revolution type organizing is as far as the US has gone or would ever have dared to go. The US only went into Libya because Medvedev agreed not to veto it in the UN security Council, and Obama did not order a massive air strike on Assad when he easily could have overthrown him with it. John Bolton chickened out of serving in Vietnam, you think he would take at least as big a risk by starting a war with Russia? The Armed Forces of America are not going to get into it with Russia, and you can take that to the bank.

    ” Dutch pilot plane trying to take off without permission: the most elementary mistake there is . ”

    Indeed, and the second pilot said ‘ I do not believe w’ve start permission’.
    The answer was ‘I fly this plane’.
    I must add the captain was under a lot of stress, not starting then would have cost millions.

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  41. @Quartermaster

    "True, there was this latest idiocy by the Dutch who now are saying that it was a “Russian” unit which shot down MH-17. I don’t know why they would bother coming up with this latest nonsense right now, this might be a desperate hope by some hardcore NATO Cold Warriors, but in the current political climate this is going largely unnoticed."
     
    The only thing idiotic is that you still think anyone with two brain cells to run together is going to believe the lie that Russian troops did not shoot down MH-17. Keep whistling past the graveyard.

    Well, until someone explains to me what benefit Russian troops expected from shooting down a passenger plane, I’m not accepting that they did it.
    It may have been an ‘accident’, it seems that Ukraine abused commercial overflights to shield their bombers.
    In this case in my opinion Ukraine is the guilty party.
    I’ve never seen explained why Kiev flight controllers ordered the plane to fly at a lower altitude.
    This lower altitude, BTW, supports the theory that an Ukrainian jet shot down the plane.
    The pilot who might have done this is dead, suicide.
    It is common in political murders to kill the murderer(s).
    I’m keeping an open mind, but as with Sept 11, do not expect to get ever the truth officially.
    Katyn took over forty years.

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    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
    " ... what benefit Russian troops expected from shooting down a passenger plane ..."

    None. It would benefit those Western elites who wish to keep NATO relevant. And it would benefit the neoconservative clique in the U.S. and their allies in Tel Aviv who want to wreak havoc upon Iran, Russia's ally. Putin and his peeps are far too crafty to purposefully commit such a strategically stupid act.
    , @anonymous
    It is clear with complete certainty who did it.

    It was a white angloid/slavoid/jewoid degenerate. Every act of the most egregious barbarism in the last 100yrs, and perhaps some centuries earlier, can be traced to the evil machinations of said degenerate.

    Mystery solved.
    , @prusmc
    Good point! I am also sure that the killers of Marc Rich sleep with the fishes.
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  42. @Blue Pilgrim
    First, forget about values, morals, and religious stuff except for one thing: setting the goals for your cybernetic machine analysis -- i.e., what do you want to end up with; what your 'vision thing'. Everything else should be interpreted in terms of cybernetic principles (control and regulation of a system -- it's too bad many people think that it's about computers and not any system, including animals and political entities). Cybernetics can be used for both 'moral' and 'immoral' systems, so you need to be inclusive in your goals, and use second order cybernetics so you observe what the system is doing and how, and whether it is incorporating the assumed values of your goals (the end does not justify the means). If you don't know about cybernetics you should take a few days to become familiar with the fundamentals. Much of it about functional feedback loops.

    Stafford Beer ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJ6orMfmorg for example)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7COX-b3HK50 The Intelligent Organization, PART I Stafford BEER // Javier Livas

    http://www.narberthpa.com/Bale/lsbale_dop/gbcatsbs.pdf

    http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/CYBSNAT.html

    https://www.youtube.com/user/JAVIERLIVAS/videos?disable_polymer=1
    Stuart A. Umpleby (at various sites)

    Putin about the smartest major leader in the world we have, and an excellent and honest administrator, but a garden elf (who is often right) tols me Xi Jinoing is even smarter, and has made huge strides in the economic sphere, as Putin has done in the military sphere. Between the two of them they are transforming the world. (Honesty is critical, BTW, not only to 'make deals' but also to preserve the functionality of feedback, which is critical for a viable system).

    If we look at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wh2jeBRWVXg
    The Financial Crisis & Cybernetics [very good video, only about 10 minutes]
    We see how inadequate feedback -- and of course dishonesty -- led to the 2008 financial collapse, abut also extrapolate to see how the US is destructive with it lies and capriciousness.

    In short, it doesn't all depend on your values, but on knowledge about systems and how they work, and how they break down. In the current case, the capitalist system in inherently flawed, being based solely on ever greater profits without regard to externalities, which leads to a world which violates the cybernetic 'law' that viable systems exist within viable systems (if the world is not viable then no nation can be either). None of this depends on religion or moral values, but on how things actually work. If we choose to survive and live in desirable ways, then we can't ignore system thinking (cybernetics), math and physics, and good epistemology -- not for long.

    Excellent materialist description. Reminds me of Authur Koestler’s concept of the “holon” (everything in existence is both a whole – an individual unit – and a part of a greater whole: all things have this Janus face existence). The cybernetics trope has the great quality of highlighting that systems are intrinsically dynamic.

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    • Replies: @Blue Pilgrim
    At other times and places I've speculated that we have a problem in the dualistic mind/body or physical/spiritual thinking, and that it seems to me that everything is composed of consciousness -- i.e. relationships between bits of information or elements of existence and the material world is only a small slice of that. But the 'spiritual' is largely inaccessible and everyone has their own conception of spirit, gods, magick, religion, etc., and we don't even have good words to talk about it, much less agree, at least agree not to go to war over it.

    But we don't that to become civilized and have a peaceful world, and it's often just an excuse and distraction from the mundane motivations like greed and power lust, and the religious extremists are as often also political extremists.

    Some time back (before Occupy) I was with a local 'peace group' which was not getting too far too fast. They were into the 'airy fairy', kumbaya, pacifist, stuff, with singing Buddhist bowls and all. Having taught some management courses before I tried to teach them some basic organizational skills, like planning and evaluation, but they would have none of it, and the 'leader' (who called himself the 'moderator' scuttled a session on planning (for an upcoming but undetermined public demonstration or project they wanted to do), leaving me only 10 minutes for what would have take near an hour, by reading off a list of names of people who had made contributions of money to the group. It turned out he, and others, were big in the local democratic party and elections, and his son was a member of Biden's staff, even -- so I don't know if it were ignorance and naivete, or sabotage.

    But the attitude of the group was very anti-organization and against the management skills and structures that corporations used to get things done, because it was 'corporate' or 'establishment'. They even refused to do planning for pot luck dinners to the extent that people would say if they were bringing a salad, or soup, or desert, or whatever -- "it just always works out" they said, and they had 'faith' that it would. And the wars and the imperialist machinations continued on, of course. Other groups do know to organize and manage, but too many Americans have no clue how to do these things and are just passive and mystified by it all, and previously well organized groups were infiltrated by the government and broken up, disabling the resistance and losing the people with the skills to resist. And spreading passivity, dependence, and incompetence is a major agenda in the schools, the media, and by corporate leaders.
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  43. @Sean

    British obligations to allow consular access to both Skripals
     
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwC_IaY3BmY

    Turns out, there are billions of dollars to be made in Russia, who would have thought?
     
    Well obviously, the Russian economy is almost as big as New York State's

    latest idiocy by the Dutch
     
    They have a reputation for trying to excupate their piolots as with the Canary Island Pan Am and KLM Boeing 747s crash which was not caused by controllers being distracted by a football match on a small radio in the control tower as the Dutch investigators claimed, but rather by the Dutch pilot plane trying to take off without permission: the most elementary mistake there is .

    It is ridiculous to claim that Russia would ever be attacked by the US. The US trying to say Putin rigged elections, and assisting colour revolution type organizing is as far as the US has gone or would ever have dared to go. The US only went into Libya because Medvedev agreed not to veto it in the UN security Council, and Obama did not order a massive air strike on Assad when he easily could have overthrown him with it. John Bolton chickened out of serving in Vietnam, you think he would take at least as big a risk by starting a war with Russia? The Armed Forces of America are not going to get into it with Russia, and you can take that to the bank.

    I agree that the US has no wish to go to war with Russia. No, the US simply wants regime change. A return to the rule of a Yeltsin type of government. A Russia completely submissive in foreign affairs & completely open to exploitation of its economy. That’s the best way to destroy a country.

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    • Replies: @Sean

    https://www.cfr.org/blog/why-does-everyone-hate-made-china-2025

    In the saga of the U.S.-China economic rivalry, Made in China 2025 is shaping up to be the central villain, the real existential threat to U.S. technological leadership.

    What is Made in China 2025? Made in China 2025 is a blueprint for Beijing's plan to transform the country into a hi-tech powerhouse that dominates advanced industries like robotics, advanced information technology, aviation, and new energy vehicles. The ambition makes sense within the context of China’s development trajectory: countries typically aim to transition away from labor-intensive industries and climb the value-added chain as wages rise, lest they fall into the so-called “middle-income trap.” Chinese policymakers have diligently studied the German concept “Industry 4.0,” which shows how advanced technology like wireless sensors and robotics, when combined with the internet, can yield significant gains in productivity, efficiency, and precision.
     

    In briefings on security by McMaster and others, Trump demanded to know what the GDP of any country if the info was not given first. Since the Soviet Union-China clashes of the late 60's and the Nixon trip, America has been building up the Chinese economy as a counterweight to its neighbour. That overt short term security-based mindset is now being reversed and the people who think that way are being eased out of US government.

    Trump was elected on a platform of economic nationalism, a sign that the country, if not its diplomats and careerist, now understand that the decades-long ignoring of any potential economic threat posed by Chinese growth now outdated because the assistance and favourable deals given to China have already created a monster of unbalanced trade with no end in sight to its growth. Not satified with a 200billion trade surplus witht he US, China's 2025 plan to subsidise development of its own quantum leaps in key technologies, instead of buying the advanced products of American industries, is the last straw. The current Administration is totally uninterested in Russia, only the holdovers like McCain and the now departed McMaster were advoiting that focus. Trump is focused on reversing the advantages and imbalances that China has been allowed to build up in trade with the West.

    This is very speculative, but I personally think Bolton is going to be most useful for starting a Middle East War, because halting immigration will require smashing Iran and encouraging Israel to expel the West bank Arabs. The Balfour Declaration was made in order to win the a war against Germany. The Bolton War will subtract the Israel lobby from what John Gray in the new Statesmen has called the alt.liberals (those of the Western intelligentsia who think any restriction of immigration is inherently racist). it will be worth it for the entire west. Wars and trade wars are sometimes necessary and winnable, if it doesn't take the country to long to come to that realisation.

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  44. EagleEyeX says:
    @peterAUS
    Slowly, but surely, Saker is,finally, starting to get there.
    Not bad.

    Time will show if Putin and the rest of Russia will decide whether moral, ethical and spiritual values are an integral part of “Russian vital interests” and whether they have to prime over “pragmatic” considerations or the other way around.
     
    Yup.

    And maybe they will come to conclude, as I do, that moral, ethical and spiritual vales are pragmatic considerations and that the apparent choice between them is an illusion.
     
    Maybe. Maybe not.

    This choice will also determine the future of Russia and her civilizational realm.
     
    Yup.

    Yes ….I agree with this completely. I believe however that Mr Putin, whom I have immense respect for, will choose the pragmatic, regrettably. Humanity cannot be saved from itself

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  45. utu says:
    @Blue Pilgrim
    "It is very simple."
    Except for this stuff:
    http://www.cybsoc.org/
    The Cybernetics Society holds scientific meetings, conferences, and social events, and engages in other activities to encourage public understanding of science and to extend and disseminate knowledge of cybernetics and its associated disciplines. The Society aims to support the Continuing Professional Development of its members. The Cybernetics Society is a member society of the International Federation for Systems Research and is affiliated to the World Organisation of Systems and Cybernetics.

    The site includes links to various conferences and resources around the world, as well as information.

    I was wrong. It is way more complicated than I thought. I said that cybernetics is one box and two arrows but sometimes it is one box and four arrows:

    19:42 at

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1175&v=2ybjOw6UJ8A

    and then lots of hand waving. And then there are even more complex idea like at 1:16:55 he draws two blobs and two arrows connecting them and claims he gets ‘ferocious scientific accuracy’ from this drawing.

    It is all BS. Hand waving and buzz words. They never calculated anything, they never predicted anything.

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    • Replies: @Blue Pilgrim
    Perhaps you would like to get this article if you like calculations as well as boxes and arrows.

    http://www.ieeesmc.org/publications/journal-highlights/492-an-effective-heuristic-rescheduling-method-for-steelmaking-and-continuous-casting-production-process-with-multirefining-modes
    An Effective Heuristic Rescheduling Method for Steelmaking and Continuous Casting Production Process With Multirefining Modes
    from http://www.ieeesmc.org/

    from The IEEE Systems, Man, and Cybernetics Society [part of Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers -- 'The world's largest technical professional organization for the advancement of technology'
    (Engineers and scientists use lots of boxes and arrows in their diagrams and flowcharts, you know, and I've seen much good material from the IEEE over the years -- and they have good trade shows.)

    A lot of cybernetics really IS rocket science, BTW, especially the new guidance systems, and the AI weapon systems under development. These systems are not your father's Oldsmobile.

    There is also some interesting material at
    https://people.well.com/user/abs/curriculum
    A Curriculum for Cybernetics and Systems Theory
    Alan B. Scrivener [who apparently knows his way around math and technology pretty well]
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  46. Jesus saying ‘the truth will make you free’ notwithstanding, The Saker should recall he lives in, and preaches from, a liberal democracy where the more apropos position might be Oscar Wilde’s ‘truth is seldom pure and never simple.’

    The point with this preceding is, ‘truth’ is as multifaceted and malleable as reality and there are many realities, each embracing (or denying, as the case may be) their respective ‘truth.’ One of those ‘truths’ could be Iran’s ayatollahs need the madman Netanyahu’s animus as much as he needs theirs; to keep their respective grips on power, a necessarily symbiotic relationship of necrotic politics as it were.

    There is a large segment of Iranian society that is absolutely NOT in love with rule by the mullahs, even while tacitly supporting them; for the facts of Iran’s complicated history with the West. Were these people ever to be freed from the constraints imposed by that history, i.e. the USA (particularly) injecting even so little as what amounts to aroma of geopolitical flatulence (supportive noises) into any political dispute with the governing theocratic republican principles, we might see a different political configuration altogether emerge in Iran.

    The article is too cocksure, too preachy. I expect this aspect extends to Saker’s likely mistaken idea the ‘Atlanticists’ are secure in Russia (more so than matches the actuality.) To those, example given, who propose Medvedev is a committed Atlanticist in some simplistic context would be an insult to the man’s intelligence; after-all, it was then President Dimitry Medvedev ordered the military response to Georgia’s initiating the South Ossetia aggression when Putin was sitting beside Bush at the China Olympics – and I recall then Prime Minister Putin’s comment concerning President Medvedev during that period: “I just trust him.”

    Any ‘Atlanticism’ attributed to Medvedev (and many more in Russia) that would look to Europe as opposed to Asia (considering USA is culturally Europe or European derived) is certainly tempered with a healthy dose of reality; an understanding ‘Atlanticism’ itself is (at least in the present) hopelessly compromised. I expect this is why Medvedev is willing to work with Putin as a reliable partner (and vice-versa.) Putin himself has made many ‘Atlanticist’ noises, if tempered in a context of wishing he could find a reliable partner in the West (which he obviously cannot.) ‘Truth is seldom pure and never simple.’

    Insofar as the reality of the USA today’s Russia is contending with, here is my modest endeavor detailing a few important aspects one seldom sees alluded to in any depth:

    https://ronaldthomaswest.com/2018/04/30/beware-the-perception/

    ^

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  47. EagleEyeX says:
    @nickels
    Yes, this jew loving legacy of victory day is interesting.
    To some extent the judeo part of Bolshevism was killed by the victory of Stalin over Trotsky, but, nonetheless, siding with jew Anglo's in the war created the very enemy that Russia is being destroyed by today, the ZangloHell empire.
    It is not unlike America's problem-we celebrate a war where we sided with the very force of jewry that is ripping our culture apart and spitting on our most sacred faith.
    Both countries have a generational cognitive dissonance related to the war. Patriotism requires celebrating it, yet survival requires realizing the whole thing was a dismal and shameful sham.
    I think only as the war generation passes can the revisionism come into the mainstream.
    Provided enough mass intelligence exists to do so, of which I am not hopeful, having sat through the many prayers for the state of Israhell while attended my Montana rural protestant church service with family this last week.

    Absolutely , no question this mans opinion. Stand up in that Montana Christian church and express your views ……..that is our great mistake to take this without a fight. Bravo

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  48. EagleEyeX says:
    @anon
    Russia is begging to be accepted by the US and UK as White European Christian .
    China knows the weakness and it won't allow itself to be dependent on Russia.

    Iran should work with Israel and Soros and finish whatever is left of the west . China will take care of Russia .

    Europe should be put back where it was before those chartered companies sailed forth in search of the loot .

    Excellent comment !!! Stupendous !! The error however is that no one can “work” with Soros or Israkill, they can only be exploited, consumed, and discarded by them….take that to the bank.

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  49. slorter says:
    @Quartermaster

    "True, there was this latest idiocy by the Dutch who now are saying that it was a “Russian” unit which shot down MH-17. I don’t know why they would bother coming up with this latest nonsense right now, this might be a desperate hope by some hardcore NATO Cold Warriors, but in the current political climate this is going largely unnoticed."
     
    The only thing idiotic is that you still think anyone with two brain cells to run together is going to believe the lie that Russian troops did not shoot down MH-17. Keep whistling past the graveyard.

    Well I have three brain cells and I think the perpetrators of the crime was part of the investigation team ! You obviously have four brain cells so it should not be hard to work that out!

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  50. Boring title: values…

    It’s about the GOOD (International Law), THE BAD (massmurdering, igorant cowboys) AND THE UGLY (US + RU Billionaires – the warplanners), since the time of Jesus of Nazareth.

    Policies of Justice:
    1 – Stick to International Law: maintain independent sovereign nations, using own currency, central bank and army.
    2. End government Bonds or lending: just issue the currency for free, using public spending to attain Full employment
    3 – assetstrip Billionares world wide!

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  51. The Saker, being of Russian descent, should better explain, what the hell are about 1000.ooo million Russian Jewish settlers are doing in Israel??

    What the hell are these people doing there, what they can’t do in Russia?

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    • Replies: @seeing-thru
    Re your question "what the hell are about 1000.ooo million Russian Jewish settlers are doing in Israel? Many people have problem grasping large numbers and quantities, nevertheless let me point out that the world's total population is presently about 6 billions, which is 6000 million. I don't think that the Russians in Israel can be one-sixth of the world's total population. What you meant to say was that there are "lots, LOTS" of Israelis of Russian descent, which is the fashionable, socially acceptable, albeit illiterate, way of expressing large numbers.

    Well the answer to what these LOTS (to keep things simple for the numerically challenged) of Russians are doing in Israel is really very simple. They are there making money. Nothing wrong with that per se. However, the problems could be that they fled there with tons of illegal wealth stolen from the Russian state and that now they want to use similar methods all over the world to add to their hoard of wealth. Additionally, they are perhaps the most rabid and violent of those who use religion as a mask to grasp more and more - more power, more wealth, more of other people's possessions.

    Sadly, they seem to have both Trump and Putin in their pocket.
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  52. Anonymous[135] • Disclaimer says:

    I fully concur with the Saker’s current and past analyses. Regarding the above “side-bar” I think greed will prevail over subservience for the simple reason that Europe IS and HAS BEEN the vessel/conduit of institutionalized greed since the imperialist/colonialist era. I don’t think that at this point in time any American promises can sway the greedy and increasingly stressed European elites. The RICHES of Russia and Asia are simply too immense AND too near to be ignored. Add the BRI and the greed factor explodes. America does not and cannot, offer a similar scheme for the future, while also it cannot, and shall not be unable to, suppress this exploding “greed” of the European elites for cheap energy (competitiveness) AND huge markets that could, conceivably, eclipse the US market as their primary source of income/profits within the next decade (maybe even sooner).

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  53. Jake says:

    “The Baltic statelets and the Swedes can continue to prepare for a Russian invasion of the want, but this nonsense is slowly losing its traction with EU politicians.”

    The Swedish Elites are begging an army of Mohammedans to come to their country to rob, rape, and welfare it unto death, and those same Swedish Elites feel the need to prepare to repel a Russian invasion?

    Talk about suicidal ultra bleeding heart Liberals who hate their own people.

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    • Replies: @hunor
    you are a very confused human!
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  54. Jake says:

    “But if you believe that morals, ethics should always prime so-called “pragmatic” considerations, if you believe that the correct path for Russia is to follow her own civilizational model, if you believe that there is a very influential and highly toxic Zionist lobby in Russia, then you have cause to worry.

    In an ideal world or, at least, a less crazy one, this choice should not be as stark, but with the Neocons in absolute control of the US and the US foreign policy decided in the Likud offices in Jerusalem, and with Israel and the US taking turns bombing Syria (even today), that choice will have to be made.”

    The paragraphs above nail the issues perfectly.

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  55. Miro23 says:

    Finally, the President of Bulgaria has had to fly to Moscow to ask the Russians to re-start the “Bulgarian Stream”. Yes, the very same “stream” which Bulgaria reneged on under EU pressure. The logic of the Bulgarians is simple and irrefutable: if the Germans get to open their own “stream” then so do we. Makes sense.

    Maybe Nord Stream 2 deserves more credit than its getting. German industry has a requirement for a large scale and reliable supply of economic gas, and it can’t be dependent on the supply through the Ukraine.

    The Germans had to choose between a Greater Israel (AKA United States) organized supply or Russia (Nord Stream 2) and they chose Russia.

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  56. @Sergey Krieger
    The problem of Russia starting since 90s is that she is constantly looking up to so done else to join and rely upon to develop. It was complete surrender by traitorous mutated Soviet elites which is continuing. Instead of using old Lenin Stalin book to develop relying upon own resources it is either joining eest or east. If anyone will say that under Putin Russia is trying to develop based upon promoting and developing own people and resources I shall have a laugh. Some are delusional. Putin had mandate to get rid of those who brought Russia to where she is and he instead picked them to govern again. It is like with Trump. He was picking warmongers and neocons and people thought that was sort of sly strategy. The team makes a king. Putin's goal as he said is to rise incomes. Well, in capitalistic countries income can both rise and fall and nothing is permanent. Russian people lost basically all their rights and properties. It is freaking theartger and I do not believe anything good will come of this. I give one year but I am not optimistic. The only way for Russia forward is towards socialism albeit modificated based upon experience. Otherwise expect merry go around for another 25 years.

    Stalin’s model of development: starving millions of peasants, in order to sell their grain to the West, using the proceeds to buy industrial machines in the West, hiring American engineers to design Magnitogorsk, using Russian slave labor to build it.

    It is no wonder there are no takers for this model in contemporary Russia, Soviet nostalgia notwithstanding.

    When the Soviet Union collapsed, they still had 1930s American equipment installed in Magnitogorsk! The regime was sterile, unable to innovate and actually develop on its own.

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    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
    That was not Stalin model. Stalin model restored destroyed by war country without outside help within 5 years. Current Russian model cannot even convincingly surpass Russia level of economy circa 1990. Thete is no deficit in stores only because Russia imports s lot of stuff while before everything was locally made. You have no clue what you ate talking about. Until Russia returns to Stalin model at the core I see no happy future.
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  57. @peterAUS
    Slowly, but surely, Saker is,finally, starting to get there.
    Not bad.

    Time will show if Putin and the rest of Russia will decide whether moral, ethical and spiritual values are an integral part of “Russian vital interests” and whether they have to prime over “pragmatic” considerations or the other way around.
     
    Yup.

    And maybe they will come to conclude, as I do, that moral, ethical and spiritual vales are pragmatic considerations and that the apparent choice between them is an illusion.
     
    Maybe. Maybe not.

    This choice will also determine the future of Russia and her civilizational realm.
     
    Yup.

    Featherweight peterAUS opined:
    “Slowly, but surely, Saker is,finally, starting to get there. Not bad.”

    After reading The Saker’s impressively logical article, & of all possible astute U.R. commenters, there was a let down for me to see little peterAUS kick-start this thread.

    Attentive readers here will note how The Saker quoted Jesus Christ’s having informed listeners, “The truth will you free.”

    In contrast, at comment # 34, peterAUS proudly classified himself as a (young) disciple of “cynicism.”

    (Zigh) It would be a betrayal for me to look for wisdom in his thought.

    Selah, uh, “get away from peterAUS, Satan!’

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  58. The U.S. is a captive nation of the Zionists and has been since 1913 when the Zionist bankers had their privately owned FED and IRS fastened on to the body of America like a fat tick to suck the life blood out of its victim, thus being typical of every parasite known to man.

    Then began the wars instigated by the Zionist overlords of America starting with WWI and on down to the middle east with Americans fighting and dying not for America but for the Zionist NWO ie ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT and for the Zionist creation of Israel, we are not free here in America , we are slaves of the Zionist plantation known as America.

    God bless Putin and Russia and Assad and Syria for standing up against the Zionist slaughter of Christians and innocent civilians by the Zionist and U.S. and British creation from hell ISIS aka AL CIADA.

    Read THE PROTOCOLS OF ZION to see what the zionists have done and are doing to America.

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  59. The author can’t make up his mind which foot to dance on! He claims first that all this is a victory for the EU and then it’s a defeat for the EU! If Putin wants a “rapprochement” with the EU, all he has to do is get out of Ukraine.

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  60. bluebeard says:
    @Quartermaster

    "True, there was this latest idiocy by the Dutch who now are saying that it was a “Russian” unit which shot down MH-17. I don’t know why they would bother coming up with this latest nonsense right now, this might be a desperate hope by some hardcore NATO Cold Warriors, but in the current political climate this is going largely unnoticed."
     
    The only thing idiotic is that you still think anyone with two brain cells to run together is going to believe the lie that Russian troops did not shoot down MH-17. Keep whistling past the graveyard.

    You’re not a very stylish ‘agent provocateur’. Ask Milo for tips.

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  61. @animalogic
    Excellent materialist description. Reminds me of Authur Koestler's concept of the "holon" (everything in existence is both a whole - an individual unit - and a part of a greater whole: all things have this Janus face existence). The cybernetics trope has the great quality of highlighting that systems are intrinsically dynamic.

    At other times and places I’ve speculated that we have a problem in the dualistic mind/body or physical/spiritual thinking, and that it seems to me that everything is composed of consciousness — i.e. relationships between bits of information or elements of existence and the material world is only a small slice of that. But the ‘spiritual’ is largely inaccessible and everyone has their own conception of spirit, gods, magick, religion, etc., and we don’t even have good words to talk about it, much less agree, at least agree not to go to war over it.

    But we don’t that to become civilized and have a peaceful world, and it’s often just an excuse and distraction from the mundane motivations like greed and power lust, and the religious extremists are as often also political extremists.

    Some time back (before Occupy) I was with a local ‘peace group’ which was not getting too far too fast. They were into the ‘airy fairy’, kumbaya, pacifist, stuff, with singing Buddhist bowls and all. Having taught some management courses before I tried to teach them some basic organizational skills, like planning and evaluation, but they would have none of it, and the ‘leader’ (who called himself the ‘moderator’ scuttled a session on planning (for an upcoming but undetermined public demonstration or project they wanted to do), leaving me only 10 minutes for what would have take near an hour, by reading off a list of names of people who had made contributions of money to the group. It turned out he, and others, were big in the local democratic party and elections, and his son was a member of Biden’s staff, even — so I don’t know if it were ignorance and naivete, or sabotage.

    But the attitude of the group was very anti-organization and against the management skills and structures that corporations used to get things done, because it was ‘corporate’ or ‘establishment’. They even refused to do planning for pot luck dinners to the extent that people would say if they were bringing a salad, or soup, or desert, or whatever — “it just always works out” they said, and they had ‘faith’ that it would. And the wars and the imperialist machinations continued on, of course. Other groups do know to organize and manage, but too many Americans have no clue how to do these things and are just passive and mystified by it all, and previously well organized groups were infiltrated by the government and broken up, disabling the resistance and losing the people with the skills to resist. And spreading passivity, dependence, and incompetence is a major agenda in the schools, the media, and by corporate leaders.

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  62. @Max Havelaar
    The Saker, being of Russian descent, should better explain, what the hell are about 1000.ooo million Russian Jewish settlers are doing in Israel??

    What the hell are these people doing there, what they can't do in Russia?

    Re your question “what the hell are about 1000.ooo million Russian Jewish settlers are doing in Israel? Many people have problem grasping large numbers and quantities, nevertheless let me point out that the world’s total population is presently about 6 billions, which is 6000 million. I don’t think that the Russians in Israel can be one-sixth of the world’s total population. What you meant to say was that there are “lots, LOTS” of Israelis of Russian descent, which is the fashionable, socially acceptable, albeit illiterate, way of expressing large numbers.

    Well the answer to what these LOTS (to keep things simple for the numerically challenged) of Russians are doing in Israel is really very simple. They are there making money. Nothing wrong with that per se. However, the problems could be that they fled there with tons of illegal wealth stolen from the Russian state and that now they want to use similar methods all over the world to add to their hoard of wealth. Additionally, they are perhaps the most rabid and violent of those who use religion as a mask to grasp more and more – more power, more wealth, more of other people’s possessions.

    Sadly, they seem to have both Trump and Putin in their pocket.

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    • Replies: @Max Havelaar
    My typo 1000.000 = 1 million = 10 exp 6.

    10 exp 12 =1 Trillion for cowboys. You got the exp. wrong!
    Ever solved convoluted integrals or differential equations?

    Your second alinea is more informational!

    Israel = also Russian maffia financial crime center, including Putin's billionaire (exp 9) friends!
    , @James Brown
    "They are there making money.". That's is true for "some of them". But others (majority?) don't know how to make money and they went to the "promise land" because it's where they can legally steal what belong/belonged to other people. It's what colonizers do.

    "they fled there with tons of illegal wealth stolen from the Russian state".

    I don't also believe that is completely exact. I would argue that they were allowed to flee.
    And that is even true for those who "fled" to that mafia state also known as the UK.
    Of course once in the UK they were given Asylum.

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  63. Self-interest is the guiding principle of human nature. This applies to countries as much as it does to individuals.

    That self-interest dictates that Russia will attempt to develop economically. And I don’t see any reason why Putin can’t court better relations with both the EU and China at the same time.

    As far as fighting wars… Absolutely yes to defend your borders and ensure your safety. Much trickier to risk life far beyond your borders to defend someone else. How is it in the national interest? What’s the cost/benefit?

    Russians will help Iran (up to a certain level) in case of war because it is in their self-interest economically and for security reasons.

    No, they won’t help the Palestinians other than supporting motions in the UN.

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    • Agree: renfro
    • Replies: @renfro

    That self-interest dictates that Russia will attempt to develop economically. And I don’t see any reason why Putin can’t court better relations with both the EU and China at the same time
     
    Which is exactly what Putin is doing.
    People commenting on Russia should spend more time reading the overseas and financial papers to see what is really happening instead of guessing and theorizing.
    Putin has struck deals already with India, Greece and Germany on trade, construction projects and the Russia gas pipeline to Germany which Merkel and Putin announced 2 weeks ago.

    Imo...and I've been watching Putin for 16 years....he's currently content to let the US, Saudi and Israel huff and puff and spill their spleens on Iran.....while he's out gathering economic deals and getting chummy with European and other leaders.
    On the issue of Jews/Israel.....I think he side steps that for the purpose of avoiding the barrage of "Putin is the new Hitler ! " crap that would be ginned up against him.
    And as far as stepping into to protect Iran, when Putin's red lines, whatever they are, are crossed I think he will 'aid' Iran...and the diplomatic smoozing he's doing now may be valuable then.

    Putin's already got his speech ready for that event...it will be all about "international order" and the 'economic chaos' the US-Israel are causing.
    Europe doesn't have the moral balls to do anything about Palestine suffering, they only give it lip service but when the US and Israel start messing with Iran it will be different because they will be messing with global economy.

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  64. We will see soon as Europe is now facing a stark choice, either join the US in even more sanctions on Iran, or not. And “not” means de-facto join Russia in her support for Iran … So which will prevail? The cowardice and subservience of the European leaders or their greed?

    Looks like European cowardice wins again: https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2018/05/26/conditioned-into-servility-europe-meekly-retreats/1kHNUzSoKaUjzywwIiCMKL/story.html

    Well, well. That sure didn’t take long, did it!

    There is a big difference between Iran and Syria though: the Russian public did support Putin’s argument that it is better to fight the Takfiris over “there” rather than right “here”. But Russians are most unlikely to support any risks of war (nevermind a war itself) unless it directly affects Russian national interests. On that Russians are split.

    True. But there’s another big difference between Iran and Syria that Saker doesn’t mention: unlike Syria, Iran has very close relations with China–and not just commercial ones either. The two countries have been doing joint naval drills in the Persian Gulf for a decade now.

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    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    There is no Europe, except for the definition of a continent that ends east of Moscow at the Ural mountains.
    There is a EU, on the verge of disintegrating.
    The mass immigration is aimed at destroying the different European cultures, is the suspicion of more and more people, and this destruction may well succeed, but by then the EU will be history for at least decades.
    Part of the EU legacy will be civil wars.
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  65. Wally says:
    @gsjackson
    The timing of the Dutch report blaming Russia for shooting down MH-17? Maybe because Malaysia just elected a 92-year-old prime minister who is described as a proud anti-semite. He might focus attention on possible culprit Kolomoisky.

    Who describes him “as a proud anti-semite”?

    And would there be something wrong with that?

    http://www.codoh.com

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    • Replies: @gsjackson
    An online mainstream news article.

    It's fine by me. Even a little uplifting to know there's somewhere on the planet you can speak your mind and have a political career.
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  66. @utu
    I was wrong. It is way more complicated than I thought. I said that cybernetics is one box and two arrows but sometimes it is one box and four arrows:

    19:42 at

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1175&v=2ybjOw6UJ8A

    and then lots of hand waving. And then there are even more complex idea like at 1:16:55 he draws two blobs and two arrows connecting them and claims he gets 'ferocious scientific accuracy' from this drawing.

    It is all BS. Hand waving and buzz words. They never calculated anything, they never predicted anything.

    Perhaps you would like to get this article if you like calculations as well as boxes and arrows.

    http://www.ieeesmc.org/publications/journal-highlights/492-an-effective-heuristic-rescheduling-method-for-steelmaking-and-continuous-casting-production-process-with-multirefining-modes

    An Effective Heuristic Rescheduling Method for Steelmaking and Continuous Casting Production Process With Multirefining Modes
    from http://www.ieeesmc.org/

    from The IEEE Systems, Man, and Cybernetics Society [part of Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers -- 'The world's largest technical professional organization for the advancement of technology'
    (Engineers and scientists use lots of boxes and arrows in their diagrams and flowcharts, you know, and I've seen much good material from the IEEE over the years -- and they have good trade shows.)

    A lot of cybernetics really IS rocket science, BTW, especially the new guidance systems, and the AI weapon systems under development. These systems are not your father's Oldsmobile.

    There is also some interesting material at

    https://people.well.com/user/abs/curriculum

    A Curriculum for Cybernetics and Systems Theory
    Alan B. Scrivener [who apparently knows his way around math and technology pretty well]

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    • Replies: @utu
    See my comment #81 to Che Guava.
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  67. Wally says:
    @jilles dykstra
    A poll among the readers of the Dutch most read newspaper shows that with these average Dutch there is no doubt whatsoever that Russia did it.
    https://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/2082679/uitslag-stelling-poetin-blijft-westen-tarten
    Putin is now more guilty than ever because he refuses to admit guilt.
    Nowhere anywhere the question is asked what benefit Russian or rebels got from shootin down a passenger plane.
    There was an article here about shooting down an Iranian passenger plane by a USA warship, also there I missed the 'why'.
    I wrote to Dutch media an politicians about the missing 'why' (on earth), never any reply.
    As just the west benefitted from the disaster, the Netherlands literally overnight agreed to economic sanctions, for me the west, including Ukraine, is the first suspect.
    Until now I did not see anyhing uttered or written by a Dutchman, or -woman, where the same idea is uttered.
    I wonder why in tv detectives the first thing discussed after a crime is 'who benefits ?', but why in the MH17 case it seems to be assumed that Russia and/or the rebels are so wicked that they shoot down a passenger plane for fun, even if the most stupid Russian or rebel would have realised that they're also hurting themselves.
    Goebbels was quite right, repeating the same over and over again, since the disaster, makes it a fact.

    said:
    “Goebbels was quite right, repeating the same over and over again, since the disaster, makes it a fact.”

    Actually Goebbels was referring to the propaganda being spread about Germany.

    ““The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country.”

    ―Zionist Edward L. Bernays

    http://www.codoh.com

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  68. Horst says:

    @Michael Kenny

    I doubt Russia can ever “get out” of Ukraine, it being someplace they aren’t. Having fallen for the semantics of the US canard, you’d have to follow its logic and demand Russia recognize and support the Kiev Junta, “give back” Crimea, and maybe as a show of goodwill, invest in chocolate futures using US dollars.

    Hence Donbas is a frozen conflict, and Kiev is a stew of poltical poison — much to Washignton’s chagrin.

    As is the case with Hamas, Hezbollah, the Taliban — i.e. assymetrical resistance to Anglo/Zio military occupation — the Donbas republics are winning simply by surviving, by not losing. This situation is a result of imperial overreach, and Russia’s “intervention” is tactically passive.

    But you are correct to point out the incoherence of the assertions made here. Thank you for mentioning it.

    The Saker generates long-winded copy, which is mostly pointless, mostly ill-informed, often elliptical and contradictory, with regular helpings of self-congratulatory drivel. In short, it’s cheap and disposable writing, from a non-writer. It will take time for readers to outgrow such intellectual flab, but, hey: it’s “nuanced” so there’s that.

    Look at Mercouris, SouthFront, Inessa, etc. Plenty of others coming up as well.

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  69. @jilles dykstra
    Well, until someone explains to me what benefit Russian troops expected from shooting down a passenger plane, I'm not accepting that they did it.
    It may have been an 'accident', it seems that Ukraine abused commercial overflights to shield their bombers.
    In this case in my opinion Ukraine is the guilty party.
    I've never seen explained why Kiev flight controllers ordered the plane to fly at a lower altitude.
    This lower altitude, BTW, supports the theory that an Ukrainian jet shot down the plane.
    The pilot who might have done this is dead, suicide.
    It is common in political murders to kill the murderer(s).
    I'm keeping an open mind, but as with Sept 11, do not expect to get ever the truth officially.
    Katyn took over forty years.

    ” … what benefit Russian troops expected from shooting down a passenger plane …”

    None. It would benefit those Western elites who wish to keep NATO relevant. And it would benefit the neoconservative clique in the U.S. and their allies in Tel Aviv who want to wreak havoc upon Iran, Russia’s ally. Putin and his peeps are far too crafty to purposefully commit such a strategically stupid act.

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  70. Che Guava says:

    Startling for me, as well. Knew he was still alive, but to be P.M. again, big surprise! Many years ago, he was communicating and meeting with Morita, the founder of Sony and one of the results was The Japan that can Say No. by Morita.

    No, to the USA trade bullying at the time.

    Unfortunately, in the bubble period, Sony was buying much media property in the USA, and it came back to bite them.

    The company of now is largely Jewish-controlled at the top, they allow Sony Computer Entertainment independence, because what they do is so popular with many, but on the product side, no Sony-Ericson, only in E-Asia market for phones, also restricting research centres.

    My comment here is very incomplete, could write over ten thousand words on it, Morita will be turning his bones among his ashes, unless he had a burial (unlikely), at what has happened to the great company he founded.

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  71. renfro says:
    @Sean

    British obligations to allow consular access to both Skripals
     
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwC_IaY3BmY

    Turns out, there are billions of dollars to be made in Russia, who would have thought?
     
    Well obviously, the Russian economy is almost as big as New York State's

    latest idiocy by the Dutch
     
    They have a reputation for trying to excupate their piolots as with the Canary Island Pan Am and KLM Boeing 747s crash which was not caused by controllers being distracted by a football match on a small radio in the control tower as the Dutch investigators claimed, but rather by the Dutch pilot plane trying to take off without permission: the most elementary mistake there is .

    It is ridiculous to claim that Russia would ever be attacked by the US. The US trying to say Putin rigged elections, and assisting colour revolution type organizing is as far as the US has gone or would ever have dared to go. The US only went into Libya because Medvedev agreed not to veto it in the UN security Council, and Obama did not order a massive air strike on Assad when he easily could have overthrown him with it. John Bolton chickened out of serving in Vietnam, you think he would take at least as big a risk by starting a war with Russia? The Armed Forces of America are not going to get into it with Russia, and you can take that to the bank.

    The Armed Forces of America are not going to get into it with Russia, and you can take that to the bank

    I think that is about 90% true…..in that I believe that is where US Military Command would finally revolt and refuse.
    But there are literal psychopaths like Bolton and his zio crew that would like nothing better.

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  72. @Felix Keverich
    Stalin's model of development: starving millions of peasants, in order to sell their grain to the West, using the proceeds to buy industrial machines in the West, hiring American engineers to design Magnitogorsk, using Russian slave labor to build it.

    It is no wonder there are no takers for this model in contemporary Russia, Soviet nostalgia notwithstanding.

    When the Soviet Union collapsed, they still had 1930s American equipment installed in Magnitogorsk! The regime was sterile, unable to innovate and actually develop on its own.

    That was not Stalin model. Stalin model restored destroyed by war country without outside help within 5 years. Current Russian model cannot even convincingly surpass Russia level of economy circa 1990. Thete is no deficit in stores only because Russia imports s lot of stuff while before everything was locally made. You have no clue what you ate talking about. Until Russia returns to Stalin model at the core I see no happy future.

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    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
    Frustrated with Felix, Sergey Krieger opined: "Until Russia returns to Stalin model at the core I see no happy future."

    Hi Sergey Krieger,

    Will prologue this comment with remembrance of the Saker's article title,
    "It all depends upon your values."

    Like ZAmerican dumb goyim masses, I predict you have rushed to judgement as to Dr. David Duke's "values," but at any rate, below he intelligently discussed one of the "Stalin model's" Zio-Soviet excesses.

    https://davidduke.com/dr-duke-eric-striker-on-zio-soviet-mass-murder-in-katyn-historic-jewish-role-worldwide-white-slavery/

    Selah, Poland handed over to Soviets and Yalta's virtuous Big 3 never having to say, "Sorry about that shit, polskies."
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  73. @seeing-thru
    Re your question "what the hell are about 1000.ooo million Russian Jewish settlers are doing in Israel? Many people have problem grasping large numbers and quantities, nevertheless let me point out that the world's total population is presently about 6 billions, which is 6000 million. I don't think that the Russians in Israel can be one-sixth of the world's total population. What you meant to say was that there are "lots, LOTS" of Israelis of Russian descent, which is the fashionable, socially acceptable, albeit illiterate, way of expressing large numbers.

    Well the answer to what these LOTS (to keep things simple for the numerically challenged) of Russians are doing in Israel is really very simple. They are there making money. Nothing wrong with that per se. However, the problems could be that they fled there with tons of illegal wealth stolen from the Russian state and that now they want to use similar methods all over the world to add to their hoard of wealth. Additionally, they are perhaps the most rabid and violent of those who use religion as a mask to grasp more and more - more power, more wealth, more of other people's possessions.

    Sadly, they seem to have both Trump and Putin in their pocket.

    My typo 1000.000 = 1 million = 10 exp 6.

    10 exp 12 =1 Trillion for cowboys. You got the exp. wrong!
    Ever solved convoluted integrals or differential equations?

    Your second alinea is more informational!

    Israel = also Russian maffia financial crime center, including Putin’s billionaire (exp 9) friends!

    Read More
    • Replies: @seeing-thru
    First of all, peace! I see now, a typo. All is forgiven and forgotten. When I saw all those zeros being tossed around, I thought I was dealing with a person like the one in the true anecdote below.

    A Lord Chancellor of the British Exchequer, while perusing a statistical report, remarked to his staff "Now isn't it good, this something has gone up by 12%". It was explained to his Lordship that the increase was 1.2%, not 12%, whereupon his Lordship replied, "Ah, I have often seen these damn little dots before but never knew until now what they meant". Well, so much for dots and zeros, we are on the same page, typos notwithstanding. Let us turn to politics now.

    I don't think Putin is a deliberate supporter of thugs and mafia types, nor is he corrupt himself. By the time that the USSR collapsed, a majority of its ruling elites had evolved into thugs and crooks. I think Russia remains stuck with the same problem even now; consequently, it cannot do enough to reverse the deep rot. Israel, in addition to UK and other countries, was a hot favourite destination for illegitimate wealth and dubious characters. The Russian jews, many of whom were from the Russian elite, found a very convenient new home in Israel. They have continued to retain their influence over Russian elites, and Putin has been unable, perhaps somewhat reluctant also for geopolitical reasons, to curb their influence over Russian politics. That is what I meant when I said that he is in Israeli pockets. BTW, this sort of moral rot in Russia also explains why pioneering capitalism never managed to take off in Russia. And moral and ethical rot is also becoming evident in American elites and ruling classes. A sad state of affairs, really, God knows how and when it will end.
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  74. Che Guava says:

    utu, cybernetics, I was studying it at fourth-year university level, as a discipline within engineering, the professor an old man who was making us work through the maths, also explaining the history, from US, USSR, E. Europe, and Japan.

    To avoid your being bored by my account below, since I would and should not, and make a point that that you will like.

    Stupid neo-leftists say ”Theory of Reltivity’, so everything is relative.

    ‘I am too stupid to ever work through the maths’.

    ‘Oh, wow, we have this idea of cybernetics to apply to our Jr. High-level colege graduations!’

    … and I am old enough to have had rigorous instruction, and intelligent enough to have taking electives outside before coursework and thesis were to making it impossible.

    The phase parametron was one from Japan. i still think that, if work to micro-miniaturise it is done, it is worthwhile..

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu
    Cybernetics as the branch of science did exist but it fragmented into fields like Control Theory, Real Time Computing, Network Science, Complexity, Robotics and it filled out. The word cybernetics became passé and even embarrassment because in 60s and 70s it was hijacked by counterculture and used there as a meaningless buzz word ad nausea. The Whole Earth Catalog, Timothy Leary, John Cage, William Burroughs all were babbling about cybernetics. The word was compromised.

    The cybernetics section of IEEE in 1970 was disbanded and changed to The Society on Systems, Man and Cybernetics. Many scientists considered Heinz von Foerster to be a charlatan. The word cybernetics acquired a 'flaky' image among engineers and scientists. The field fragmented into legitimate research areas as I stated above and nobody there wants to hear the word cybernetics.

    What is left is several older generation 'preachers' who keep preaching cybernetics as a cure it all medicine to explain and understand economy, cosset and politics. But they are on the margins and they do not have access to modern tools and developments in these fields. You can see their lectures on YT and as I said earlier it is mostly hand waving and drawing few feedback diagrams. Basically it is charlatanry and waste of time.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  75. @seeing-thru
    Re your question "what the hell are about 1000.ooo million Russian Jewish settlers are doing in Israel? Many people have problem grasping large numbers and quantities, nevertheless let me point out that the world's total population is presently about 6 billions, which is 6000 million. I don't think that the Russians in Israel can be one-sixth of the world's total population. What you meant to say was that there are "lots, LOTS" of Israelis of Russian descent, which is the fashionable, socially acceptable, albeit illiterate, way of expressing large numbers.

    Well the answer to what these LOTS (to keep things simple for the numerically challenged) of Russians are doing in Israel is really very simple. They are there making money. Nothing wrong with that per se. However, the problems could be that they fled there with tons of illegal wealth stolen from the Russian state and that now they want to use similar methods all over the world to add to their hoard of wealth. Additionally, they are perhaps the most rabid and violent of those who use religion as a mask to grasp more and more - more power, more wealth, more of other people's possessions.

    Sadly, they seem to have both Trump and Putin in their pocket.

    “They are there making money.”. That’s is true for “some of them”. But others (majority?) don’t know how to make money and they went to the “promise land” because it’s where they can legally steal what belong/belonged to other people. It’s what colonizers do.

    “they fled there with tons of illegal wealth stolen from the Russian state”.

    I don’t also believe that is completely exact. I would argue that they were allowed to flee.
    And that is even true for those who “fled” to that mafia state also known as the UK.
    Of course once in the UK they were given Asylum.

    Read More
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  76. @Sergey Krieger
    That was not Stalin model. Stalin model restored destroyed by war country without outside help within 5 years. Current Russian model cannot even convincingly surpass Russia level of economy circa 1990. Thete is no deficit in stores only because Russia imports s lot of stuff while before everything was locally made. You have no clue what you ate talking about. Until Russia returns to Stalin model at the core I see no happy future.

    Frustrated with Felix, Sergey Krieger opined: “Until Russia returns to Stalin model at the core I see no happy future.”

    Hi Sergey Krieger,

    Will prologue this comment with remembrance of the Saker’s article title,
    “It all depends upon your values.”

    Like ZAmerican dumb goyim masses, I predict you have rushed to judgement as to Dr. David Duke’s “values,” but at any rate, below he intelligently discussed one of the “Stalin model’s” Zio-Soviet excesses.

    https://davidduke.com/dr-duke-eric-striker-on-zio-soviet-mass-murder-in-katyn-historic-jewish-role-worldwide-white-slavery/

    Selah, Poland handed over to Soviets and Yalta’s virtuous Big 3 never having to say, “Sorry about that shit, polskies.”

    Read More
    • Agree: byrresheim
    • Replies: @Wally
    Per the cited Katyn Massacre of thousands of Polish officers by the communists, see here for a real forensic excavation at Katyn by the Germans with massive human remains actually shown & verified; unlike the alleged, but non-existent, 'holocaust mass graves of an alleged 11,000,000.

    Katyn facts: 'Amtliches Material zum Massenmord von Katyn'
    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=758

    www.codoh.com

    , @byrresheim
    Is it not amazing, how a war ostensibly started to keep Poland free from the Germans ended with Poland under the Russian yoke?

    Is it not amazing how everybody constantly reminds us of Gleiwitz, but nobody cares to talk about the Russian invasion a few days later, not answered by a british declaration of war?

    One wonders about the content of those foreign office files Mrs Thatcher decided to keep under lock for another half century first thing she was in office.

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  77. Moi says:
    @gsjackson
    The timing of the Dutch report blaming Russia for shooting down MH-17? Maybe because Malaysia just elected a 92-year-old prime minister who is described as a proud anti-semite. He might focus attention on possible culprit Kolomoisky.

    Nah, Mahathir speaks the truth on the subject of so-called Semites.

    Read More
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  78. Moi says:
    @anon
    Russia is begging to be accepted by the US and UK as White European Christian .
    China knows the weakness and it won't allow itself to be dependent on Russia.

    Iran should work with Israel and Soros and finish whatever is left of the west . China will take care of Russia .

    Europe should be put back where it was before those chartered companies sailed forth in search of the loot .

    Agree only with your first sentence. Putin is weak and, no matter who much sand we kick in his face, desperately wants Russia to be integrated with the west.

    Read More
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  79. Wally says:
    @ChuckOrloski
    Frustrated with Felix, Sergey Krieger opined: "Until Russia returns to Stalin model at the core I see no happy future."

    Hi Sergey Krieger,

    Will prologue this comment with remembrance of the Saker's article title,
    "It all depends upon your values."

    Like ZAmerican dumb goyim masses, I predict you have rushed to judgement as to Dr. David Duke's "values," but at any rate, below he intelligently discussed one of the "Stalin model's" Zio-Soviet excesses.

    https://davidduke.com/dr-duke-eric-striker-on-zio-soviet-mass-murder-in-katyn-historic-jewish-role-worldwide-white-slavery/

    Selah, Poland handed over to Soviets and Yalta's virtuous Big 3 never having to say, "Sorry about that shit, polskies."

    Per the cited Katyn Massacre of thousands of Polish officers by the communists, see here for a real forensic excavation at Katyn by the Germans with massive human remains actually shown & verified; unlike the alleged, but non-existent, ‘holocaust mass graves of an alleged 11,000,000.

    Katyn facts: ‘Amtliches Material zum Massenmord von Katyn’

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=758

    http://www.codoh.com

    Read More
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  80. gsjackson says:
    @Wally
    Who describes him "as a proud anti-semite"?

    And would there be something wrong with that?

    www.codoh.com

    An online mainstream news article.

    It’s fine by me. Even a little uplifting to know there’s somewhere on the planet you can speak your mind and have a political career.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wally
    "An online mainstream news article. "

    By who?

    Dare I guess?

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  81. utu says:
    @Che Guava
    utu, cybernetics, I was studying it at fourth-year university level, as a discipline within engineering, the professor an old man who was making us work through the maths, also explaining the history, from US, USSR, E. Europe, and Japan.

    To avoid your being bored by my account below, since I would and should not, and make a point that that you will like.

    Stupid neo-leftists say ''Theory of Reltivity', so everything is relative.

    'I am too stupid to ever work through the maths'.

    'Oh, wow, we have this idea of cybernetics to apply to our Jr. High-level colege graduations!'


    ... and I am old enough to have had rigorous instruction, and intelligent enough to have taking electives outside before coursework and thesis were to making it impossible.

    The phase parametron was one from Japan. i still think that, if work to micro-miniaturise it is done, it is worthwhile..

    Cybernetics as the branch of science did exist but it fragmented into fields like Control Theory, Real Time Computing, Network Science, Complexity, Robotics and it filled out. The word cybernetics became passé and even embarrassment because in 60s and 70s it was hijacked by counterculture and used there as a meaningless buzz word ad nausea. The Whole Earth Catalog, Timothy Leary, John Cage, William Burroughs all were babbling about cybernetics. The word was compromised.

    The cybernetics section of IEEE in 1970 was disbanded and changed to The Society on Systems, Man and Cybernetics. Many scientists considered Heinz von Foerster to be a charlatan. The word cybernetics acquired a ‘flaky’ image among engineers and scientists. The field fragmented into legitimate research areas as I stated above and nobody there wants to hear the word cybernetics.

    What is left is several older generation ‘preachers’ who keep preaching cybernetics as a cure it all medicine to explain and understand economy, cosset and politics. But they are on the margins and they do not have access to modern tools and developments in these fields. You can see their lectures on YT and as I said earlier it is mostly hand waving and drawing few feedback diagrams. Basically it is charlatanry and waste of time.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Blue Pilgrim
    Feel free to read the bio, utu. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinz_von_Foerster
    and about the equation named after him https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von_Foerster_equation

    Is 3 or 4 enough to constitute 'many scientists'; can you name any?

    Cybernetics did not fragment but was multidisciplinary from the start, at the Macy Conferences.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macy_conferences
    "The Macy Conferences were a set of meetings of scholars from various disciplines held in New York under the direction of Frank Fremont-Smith at the Josiah Macy, Jr. Foundation starting in 1941 and ending in 1960. The explicit aim of the conferences was to promote meaningful communication across scientific disciplines,[1] and restore unity to science.[2] There were different sets of conferences designed to cover specific topics, for a total of 160 conferences over the 19 years this program was active...".

    "The Cybernetics [conferences, 1946-1953] were particularly complex as a result of bringing together the most diverse group of participants of any of the Macy conferences, so they were the most difficult to organize and maintain.[16]

    The principal purpose of these series of conferences was to set the foundations for a general science of the workings of the human mind.[17] These were one of the first organized studies of interdisciplinarity, spawning breakthroughs in systems theory, cybernetics, and what later
    became known as cognitive science."


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norbert_Wiener
    "Norbert Wiener (November 26, 1894 – March 18, 1964) was an American mathematician and philosopher. He was a professor of mathematics at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT). A child prodigy, Wiener later became an early researcher in stochastic and mathematical noise processes, contributing work relevant to electronic engineering, electronic communication, and control systems.

    Wiener is considered the originator of cybernetics, a formalization of the notion of feedback, with implications for engineering, systems control, computer science, biology, neuroscience, philosophy, and the organization of society."

    Note that http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/DEFAULT.html [last update in 2016]
    Principia Cybernetica tries to tackle age-old philosophical questions with the help of the most recent cybernetic theories and technologies.
    is much concerned with the philosophy of science, epistemology, and systems theory, as well as praxis.

    Scientific and technical terms are often hijacked, of course, such as the current popular usage of words with 'quantum', 'nuclear', or 'mega' (as well as relativity mentioned above). 'Cyber' is particularly prone to such misuse.
    http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/NAVIG.html & http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/TOC.html#DEFAULT are useful for getting around this very good site.

    I'm afraid you, utu, are the one stuck a half century in the past. Update yourself -- there is good stuff here :-) .
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  82. utu says:
    @Blue Pilgrim
    Perhaps you would like to get this article if you like calculations as well as boxes and arrows.

    http://www.ieeesmc.org/publications/journal-highlights/492-an-effective-heuristic-rescheduling-method-for-steelmaking-and-continuous-casting-production-process-with-multirefining-modes
    An Effective Heuristic Rescheduling Method for Steelmaking and Continuous Casting Production Process With Multirefining Modes
    from http://www.ieeesmc.org/

    from The IEEE Systems, Man, and Cybernetics Society [part of Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers -- 'The world's largest technical professional organization for the advancement of technology'
    (Engineers and scientists use lots of boxes and arrows in their diagrams and flowcharts, you know, and I've seen much good material from the IEEE over the years -- and they have good trade shows.)

    A lot of cybernetics really IS rocket science, BTW, especially the new guidance systems, and the AI weapon systems under development. These systems are not your father's Oldsmobile.

    There is also some interesting material at
    https://people.well.com/user/abs/curriculum
    A Curriculum for Cybernetics and Systems Theory
    Alan B. Scrivener [who apparently knows his way around math and technology pretty well]

    See my comment #81 to Che Guava.

    Read More
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  83. Sean says:
    @animalogic
    I agree that the US has no wish to go to war with Russia. No, the US simply wants regime change. A return to the rule of a Yeltsin type of government. A Russia completely submissive in foreign affairs & completely open to exploitation of its economy. That's the best way to destroy a country.

    https://www.cfr.org/blog/why-does-everyone-hate-made-china-2025

    In the saga of the U.S.-China economic rivalry, Made in China 2025 is shaping up to be the central villain, the real existential threat to U.S. technological leadership.

    What is Made in China 2025? Made in China 2025 is a blueprint for Beijing’s plan to transform the country into a hi-tech powerhouse that dominates advanced industries like robotics, advanced information technology, aviation, and new energy vehicles. The ambition makes sense within the context of China’s development trajectory: countries typically aim to transition away from labor-intensive industries and climb the value-added chain as wages rise, lest they fall into the so-called “middle-income trap.” Chinese policymakers have diligently studied the German concept “Industry 4.0,” which shows how advanced technology like wireless sensors and robotics, when combined with the internet, can yield significant gains in productivity, efficiency, and precision.

    In briefings on security by McMaster and others, Trump demanded to know what the GDP of any country if the info was not given first. Since the Soviet Union-China clashes of the late 60′s and the Nixon trip, America has been building up the Chinese economy as a counterweight to its neighbour. That overt short term security-based mindset is now being reversed and the people who think that way are being eased out of US government.

    Trump was elected on a platform of economic nationalism, a sign that the country, if not its diplomats and careerist, now understand that the decades-long ignoring of any potential economic threat posed by Chinese growth now outdated because the assistance and favourable deals given to China have already created a monster of unbalanced trade with no end in sight to its growth. Not satified with a 200billion trade surplus witht he US, China’s 2025 plan to subsidise development of its own quantum leaps in key technologies, instead of buying the advanced products of American industries, is the last straw. The current Administration is totally uninterested in Russia, only the holdovers like McCain and the now departed McMaster were advoiting that focus. Trump is focused on reversing the advantages and imbalances that China has been allowed to build up in trade with the West.

    This is very speculative, but I personally think Bolton is going to be most useful for starting a Middle East War, because halting immigration will require smashing Iran and encouraging Israel to expel the West bank Arabs. The Balfour Declaration was made in order to win the a war against Germany. The Bolton War will subtract the Israel lobby from what John Gray in the new Statesmen has called the alt.liberals (those of the Western intelligentsia who think any restriction of immigration is inherently racist). it will be worth it for the entire west. Wars and trade wars are sometimes necessary and winnable, if it doesn’t take the country to long to come to that realisation.

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    A sidenote:
    One reads through a post/comment, and, for a change, doesn't need to skip over high school playground talk, let alone borderly (and over that line) insane speech and attitude.
    Then....something.
    Say.....interesting.
    As:

    ...halting immigration will require smashing Iran and encouraging Israel to expel the West bank Arabs........it will be worth it for the entire west.
     
    A couple of seconds doubt in own faculties (yes, I know), then re-reading, and the thing is still there.
    O.K.

    So....would you mind expanding on that, please?

    I do agree with


    Wars and trade wars are sometimes necessary and winnable, if it doesn’t take the country to long to come to that realisation.
     
    but, that above......just confused.
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  84. Wally says:
    @gsjackson
    An online mainstream news article.

    It's fine by me. Even a little uplifting to know there's somewhere on the planet you can speak your mind and have a political career.

    “An online mainstream news article. ”

    By who?

    Dare I guess?

    Read More
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  85. peterAUS says:
    @Sean

    https://www.cfr.org/blog/why-does-everyone-hate-made-china-2025

    In the saga of the U.S.-China economic rivalry, Made in China 2025 is shaping up to be the central villain, the real existential threat to U.S. technological leadership.

    What is Made in China 2025? Made in China 2025 is a blueprint for Beijing's plan to transform the country into a hi-tech powerhouse that dominates advanced industries like robotics, advanced information technology, aviation, and new energy vehicles. The ambition makes sense within the context of China’s development trajectory: countries typically aim to transition away from labor-intensive industries and climb the value-added chain as wages rise, lest they fall into the so-called “middle-income trap.” Chinese policymakers have diligently studied the German concept “Industry 4.0,” which shows how advanced technology like wireless sensors and robotics, when combined with the internet, can yield significant gains in productivity, efficiency, and precision.
     

    In briefings on security by McMaster and others, Trump demanded to know what the GDP of any country if the info was not given first. Since the Soviet Union-China clashes of the late 60's and the Nixon trip, America has been building up the Chinese economy as a counterweight to its neighbour. That overt short term security-based mindset is now being reversed and the people who think that way are being eased out of US government.

    Trump was elected on a platform of economic nationalism, a sign that the country, if not its diplomats and careerist, now understand that the decades-long ignoring of any potential economic threat posed by Chinese growth now outdated because the assistance and favourable deals given to China have already created a monster of unbalanced trade with no end in sight to its growth. Not satified with a 200billion trade surplus witht he US, China's 2025 plan to subsidise development of its own quantum leaps in key technologies, instead of buying the advanced products of American industries, is the last straw. The current Administration is totally uninterested in Russia, only the holdovers like McCain and the now departed McMaster were advoiting that focus. Trump is focused on reversing the advantages and imbalances that China has been allowed to build up in trade with the West.

    This is very speculative, but I personally think Bolton is going to be most useful for starting a Middle East War, because halting immigration will require smashing Iran and encouraging Israel to expel the West bank Arabs. The Balfour Declaration was made in order to win the a war against Germany. The Bolton War will subtract the Israel lobby from what John Gray in the new Statesmen has called the alt.liberals (those of the Western intelligentsia who think any restriction of immigration is inherently racist). it will be worth it for the entire west. Wars and trade wars are sometimes necessary and winnable, if it doesn't take the country to long to come to that realisation.

    A sidenote:
    One reads through a post/comment, and, for a change, doesn’t need to skip over high school playground talk, let alone borderly (and over that line) insane speech and attitude.
    Then….something.
    Say…..interesting.
    As:

    …halting immigration will require smashing Iran and encouraging Israel to expel the West bank Arabs……..it will be worth it for the entire west.

    A couple of seconds doubt in own faculties (yes, I know), then re-reading, and the thing is still there.
    O.K.

    So….would you mind expanding on that, please?

    I do agree with

    Wars and trade wars are sometimes necessary and winnable, if it doesn’t take the country to long to come to that realisation.

    but, that above……just confused.

    Read More
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  86. @utu
    Cybernetics as the branch of science did exist but it fragmented into fields like Control Theory, Real Time Computing, Network Science, Complexity, Robotics and it filled out. The word cybernetics became passé and even embarrassment because in 60s and 70s it was hijacked by counterculture and used there as a meaningless buzz word ad nausea. The Whole Earth Catalog, Timothy Leary, John Cage, William Burroughs all were babbling about cybernetics. The word was compromised.

    The cybernetics section of IEEE in 1970 was disbanded and changed to The Society on Systems, Man and Cybernetics. Many scientists considered Heinz von Foerster to be a charlatan. The word cybernetics acquired a 'flaky' image among engineers and scientists. The field fragmented into legitimate research areas as I stated above and nobody there wants to hear the word cybernetics.

    What is left is several older generation 'preachers' who keep preaching cybernetics as a cure it all medicine to explain and understand economy, cosset and politics. But they are on the margins and they do not have access to modern tools and developments in these fields. You can see their lectures on YT and as I said earlier it is mostly hand waving and drawing few feedback diagrams. Basically it is charlatanry and waste of time.

    Feel free to read the bio, utu. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinz_von_Foerster
    and about the equation named after him https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von_Foerster_equation

    Is 3 or 4 enough to constitute ‘many scientists’; can you name any?

    Cybernetics did not fragment but was multidisciplinary from the start, at the Macy Conferences.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macy_conferences

    “The Macy Conferences were a set of meetings of scholars from various disciplines held in New York under the direction of Frank Fremont-Smith at the Josiah Macy, Jr. Foundation starting in 1941 and ending in 1960. The explicit aim of the conferences was to promote meaningful communication across scientific disciplines,[1] and restore unity to science.[2] There were different sets of conferences designed to cover specific topics, for a total of 160 conferences over the 19 years this program was active…”.

    “The Cybernetics [conferences, 1946-1953] were particularly complex as a result of bringing together the most diverse group of participants of any of the Macy conferences, so they were the most difficult to organize and maintain.[16]

    The principal purpose of these series of conferences was to set the foundations for a general science of the workings of the human mind.[17] These were one of the first organized studies of interdisciplinarity, spawning breakthroughs in systems theory, cybernetics, and what later
    became known as cognitive science.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norbert_Wiener

    “Norbert Wiener (November 26, 1894 – March 18, 1964) was an American mathematician and philosopher. He was a professor of mathematics at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT). A child prodigy, Wiener later became an early researcher in stochastic and mathematical noise processes, contributing work relevant to electronic engineering, electronic communication, and control systems.

    Wiener is considered the originator of cybernetics, a formalization of the notion of feedback, with implications for engineering, systems control, computer science, biology, neuroscience, philosophy, and the organization of society.”

    Note that http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/DEFAULT.html [last update in 2016]
    Principia Cybernetica tries to tackle age-old philosophical questions with the help of the most recent cybernetic theories and technologies.
    is much concerned with the philosophy of science, epistemology, and systems theory, as well as praxis.

    Scientific and technical terms are often hijacked, of course, such as the current popular usage of words with ‘quantum’, ‘nuclear’, or ‘mega’ (as well as relativity mentioned above). ‘Cyber’ is particularly prone to such misuse.
    http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/NAVIG.html & http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/TOC.html#DEFAULT are useful for getting around this very good site.

    I’m afraid you, utu, are the one stuck a half century in the past. Update yourself — there is good stuff here :-) .

    Read More
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  87. @nickels
    Yes, this jew loving legacy of victory day is interesting.
    To some extent the judeo part of Bolshevism was killed by the victory of Stalin over Trotsky, but, nonetheless, siding with jew Anglo's in the war created the very enemy that Russia is being destroyed by today, the ZangloHell empire.
    It is not unlike America's problem-we celebrate a war where we sided with the very force of jewry that is ripping our culture apart and spitting on our most sacred faith.
    Both countries have a generational cognitive dissonance related to the war. Patriotism requires celebrating it, yet survival requires realizing the whole thing was a dismal and shameful sham.
    I think only as the war generation passes can the revisionism come into the mainstream.
    Provided enough mass intelligence exists to do so, of which I am not hopeful, having sat through the many prayers for the state of Israhell while attended my Montana rural protestant church service with family this last week.

    You two have nailed it…

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  88. Art says:

    Europe and Russia are family – not kissing cousins – but family never the less. Trump is pushing the Euro family together. The economic servitude of Europe is at stake. What is in the future?

    The ball is in Europe’s court. Jews control the Euro elite – but not the Euro people. The Jew compromised Euro elite must look after their people or lose power. Will the Euro people win out – currently, there is no love for the US/Israel among the masses.

    China is in the catbird seat – it has the economic future.

    Will Euro/Russia turn East and abandon US/Israel?

    That is the question.

    Think Peace — Art

    p.s. Clearly, Putin is Jew compromised – he has failed to handle the Jew oligarchs (just like the rest of the West). Jew money is the curse of the West.

    p.s. Putin has done a good thing by not putting s-300’s in Syria — forestalling a major war.

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  89. But that does not change the fact that the triangle Israel-Palestine-Iran presents a crucial spiritual, ethical, moral and civilizational challenge to Russia…

    No.

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    • Replies: @Iris
    A Zionist who does not understand the adjectives "moral", "ethical" and "spiritual".

    Lol, what a surprise !!!
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  90. anonymous[410] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon
    Yes, values are nice but tend to be passive and personal.

    It's like being a good person.

    But a nation doesn't progress with goodness. It is maintained and preserved by goodness. Goodness is essential but it's not creative.

    For advancement and progress in arts, sciences, technology, and enterprise, a people need that spark.
    Goodness as a value is like warmth. It's nice but it doesn't set off a fire. For fire, you need spark. The Howard Roark thing.

    You need inspiration and ambition. You need drive and egoism. This is why Russian Soul lost out to Anglo Spirit that built America.

    Also, goodness isn't enough for Rule of Law. That calls for culture of Fairness. A nation can have good values but still lack the sense of fairness rooted in honor.

    Also, values are like the flesh that tend to go flabby without bone, structure, and form.
    This is why manners and habits matter. Germans, Japanese, and Anglos, with harder social form, did more than slovenly and lax Russians.

    For advancement and progress in arts, sciences, technology, and enterprise, a people need that spark.

    You forgot one more important ingredient. Wealth. Lots of it.

    The evil Angloids understood this quite well, and they possessed the limitless Greed and racial supremacist delusions (heck, even the f’ing Japs too), which formed the basis for their Psycho-necrophiliac tendencies.

    They could not have “succeeded” (see below) as they did without plundering wealth, with the resultant oppression and bloodletting, from all around the world.

    In the process they gave away their souls to the Devil.

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  91. anonymous[410] • Disclaimer says:
    @Johann Ricke

    The only way to benefit in a significant way from the Middle East is to ‘conquer it and steal their oil’ (in the dream of Trump), while preventing their people from emigrating to you.
     
    In the old days, you'd do what Muhammad did - conquer and assimilate them into the empire. The recalcitrants would be killed. Odd enough, that's what the Chinese are now attempting to do to the Uighurs.

    Pagan polytheists -non-Muslims if it is not clear enough- are dead men walking anyway, if only you knew what awaits your spiritually bereft souls.

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    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    If only YOU actually “knew” what awaits them, too.
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  92. SteveK9 says:

    There is very little mention of China in this analysis. China has gotten away with letting Russia do all the heavy lifting. Will they increase their involvement in World politics, or not? A very important question.

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  93. anonymous[410] • Disclaimer says:
    @jilles dykstra
    Well, until someone explains to me what benefit Russian troops expected from shooting down a passenger plane, I'm not accepting that they did it.
    It may have been an 'accident', it seems that Ukraine abused commercial overflights to shield their bombers.
    In this case in my opinion Ukraine is the guilty party.
    I've never seen explained why Kiev flight controllers ordered the plane to fly at a lower altitude.
    This lower altitude, BTW, supports the theory that an Ukrainian jet shot down the plane.
    The pilot who might have done this is dead, suicide.
    It is common in political murders to kill the murderer(s).
    I'm keeping an open mind, but as with Sept 11, do not expect to get ever the truth officially.
    Katyn took over forty years.

    It is clear with complete certainty who did it.

    It was a white angloid/slavoid/jewoid degenerate. Every act of the most egregious barbarism in the last 100yrs, and perhaps some centuries earlier, can be traced to the evil machinations of said degenerate.

    Mystery solved.

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  94. M7 says:

    Dear Saker,

    Your analysis is impeccable from the moral standpoint.
    It all resorts back to the “jewish problem” that seems to me is a constant along history.
    It’s all there..whether “international Jew” of Ford, Charles Maurras writings, Hitler’s Second Book and many many others. They were all right in their analysis re. the “chosen” .

    Except the world is grey…not black and white..and from this stand point longer it takes to push Russia into a corner (of chosing and involving itself on a side) better it is.
    The jewish conspiracy is the monumental achievement of mankind…chosen or goy alike.
    These people destroyed nations and crushed people (they used) without a second thought. They know how to manipulate the goym into mutual destruction…they never failed in history.

    Except when God himself gave them a good smack. …they the game starts all over again…for about 300 years.
    Russia is too weak to fight such a conspiracy by herself. Maybe China…but Eastern peoples are too pragmatic for a moral stand.

    Probably the best is to pray for them the chosen ones (to find redemption and the path to light) and for ourselves, for our weaknesses exploited by them lead us to our demise.
    My take…is that the “chosen” conspiracy will only be eliminated by the jews themselves.

    …then again… one gets further with good words and a gun then just with good words alone. So …yes… Russia will make the right choice when pushed into a corner. Until then we all pray it gets stronger.

    I am not a Russian but I fully know and understand Russia’s weaknesses and greatness. In terms of the “white man”…Russia is truly the last hope.

    Keep up the good work Saker

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    • Replies: @Rabbitnexus
    China already has the usual infestation of the problematic sort of Jews. (Most of them.) Have you heard of the Harbin Jews? Guess who dominates their banking? Remember who "Israel" sells stolen US defence technology to? China.
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  95. Alfa158 says:

    I’d like your take on something Saker. In your your opinion, do you think the War Party actually believes that in the event of an attack on Iran they can keep the straights of Hormuz open? Or do they not care, and shutting off the oil will work to their benefit?

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  96. renfro says:
    @Joe Anonynous
    Self-interest is the guiding principle of human nature. This applies to countries as much as it does to individuals.

    That self-interest dictates that Russia will attempt to develop economically. And I don't see any reason why Putin can't court better relations with both the EU and China at the same time.

    As far as fighting wars... Absolutely yes to defend your borders and ensure your safety. Much trickier to risk life far beyond your borders to defend someone else. How is it in the national interest? What's the cost/benefit?

    Russians will help Iran (up to a certain level) in case of war because it is in their self-interest economically and for security reasons.

    No, they won't help the Palestinians other than supporting motions in the UN.

    That self-interest dictates that Russia will attempt to develop economically. And I don’t see any reason why Putin can’t court better relations with both the EU and China at the same time

    Which is exactly what Putin is doing.
    People commenting on Russia should spend more time reading the overseas and financial papers to see what is really happening instead of guessing and theorizing.
    Putin has struck deals already with India, Greece and Germany on trade, construction projects and the Russia gas pipeline to Germany which Merkel and Putin announced 2 weeks ago.

    Imo…and I’ve been watching Putin for 16 years….he’s currently content to let the US, Saudi and Israel huff and puff and spill their spleens on Iran…..while he’s out gathering economic deals and getting chummy with European and other leaders.
    On the issue of Jews/Israel…..I think he side steps that for the purpose of avoiding the barrage of “Putin is the new Hitler ! ” crap that would be ginned up against him.
    And as far as stepping into to protect Iran, when Putin’s red lines, whatever they are, are crossed I think he will ‘aid’ Iran…and the diplomatic smoozing he’s doing now may be valuable then.

    Putin’s already got his speech ready for that event…it will be all about “international order” and the ‘economic chaos’ the US-Israel are causing.
    Europe doesn’t have the moral balls to do anything about Palestine suffering, they only give it lip service but when the US and Israel start messing with Iran it will be different because they will be messing with global economy.

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    • Agree: Iris
    • Replies: @Iris
    ..."US and Israel start messing with Iran it will be different because they will be messing with global economy"

    The global economy is already messed up beyond repair, as it has been destroyed by the parasitic Anglo-Zionist financial oligarchy.

    China and Russia will not let Iran go down because they must commit to their own national interests and survival in the new economic order that is bound to appear.

    China offering to purchase Total's 51% stakes of South Pars giant Iranian gas project, in case the French company had to abide by US sanction, is a strong sign.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-nuclear-cnpc-total/chinas-cnpc-ready-to-take-over-iran-project-if-total-leaves-sources-idUSKBN1IC0TE
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  97. renfro says:

    This is the ultimate stupidity and a threat to national security. I am sure those who have seen thru Trump will get the full import of this and what is behind it. Selling off strategic assets and emergency reserves is something only a country headed toward going belly up would do. Just like the USSR did.

    U.S. mandates biggest non-emergency strategic oil sell-off

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/energy/2018/02/13/us-mandates-biggest-non-emergency-strategic-oil-sell-off/332885002/

    “This is nothing short of liquidation of a safety net.”

    President Donald Trump unveiled a $4.4 trillion budget for next year that heralds an era of $1 trillion-plus federal deficits and — unlike the plan he released last year — never comes close to promising a balanced ledger even after 10 years Time
    The budget deal that the U.S. Congress passed and President Donald Trump signed into law last Friday calls for selling 100 million barrels of the Strategic Petroleum Reserve (SPR) by 2027 to help fund the government.
    The sale of 100 million barrels of crude oil in the next decade would represent the largest non-emergency sell-off of strategic oil reserves and would equate to some 15% of the current stockpiles in the SPR.
    The mandate for the SPR sale has drawn criticism because, some experts say, it would blunt the purpose of the strategic reserve to mitigate major global oil supply disruptions or price shocks. Other critics have said that tapping the emergency oil reserve for non-energy needs of the government is short-sighted and that the SPR should not be used as a “government ATM.”
    The Bipartisan Budget Act of 2018 mandates the Secretary of Energy to draw down and sell from the SPR a total of 30 million barrels of crude oil between fiscal years 2022 and 2025; another 35 million barrels during fiscal year 2026; and an additional 35 million barrels in fiscal year 2027.

    In addition, under a budget deal from 2015, the Secretary of Energy is authorized to draw down up to $350 million worth of crude oil from the SPR in the 2018 fiscal year to use for modernization of the reserve.

    The budget deal also reduces the minimum required level in the reserve under which no drawdowns can be made, to 350 million barrels from 450 million barrels.

    According to the Congressional Budget Office, the sale of the 100 million barrels from the SPR would generate $6.36 billion between 2018 and 2027.
    As of February 2, 2018, the SPR held a total of 665.1 million barrels of crude oil, while the current storage capacity is 713.5 million barrels, according to the Department of Energy. The average price paid for oil in the Reserve is $29.70 per barrel.
    After the sale authorized last week will be completed by 2027, the SPR would hold 406 million barrels of oil, equal to around 56% of its capacity, according to DoE estimates quoted by Platts.
    Kevin Book, managing director at ClearView Energy Partners, told Platts that the 100-million-barrel sale was “a resounding declaration of lawmakers’ new perspective on energy security.”
    Book told Bloomberg that “This is nothing short of liquidation of a safety net.”
    Current and past energy officials also criticized the proposal for the largest non-emergency strategic oil sale in U.S. history.
    According to the Washington Post, the White House reportedly has unveiled plans to cut off the station’s funding by 2024.
    Energy Undersecretary Mark Menezes told Bloomberg in an interview that the SPR was not designed to serve as “a government ATM.”
    “My own view is that SPR was put in place as an energy security mechanism to ensure that we had supply,” Menezes noted.
    Bob McNally, president of consultancy Rapidan Energy Group and a former senior energy official at the White House under President George W. Bush, told Bloomberg that “Selling the SPR to cover non-energy budget expenses is deeply short-sighted and unwise.”
    “In 1996 and 1997 we sold SPR barrels to pay for unrelated budget expenses and I was in the White House when we put those barrels back at higher prices starting about five years later, after 9/11,” McNally said.
    “Geopolitical risk is alive and well in the oil market, and the SPR is America’s only formal short-term line of defense against oil supply disruptions and price spikes,” Robbie Diamond, president of Securing America’s Future Energy, told Bloomberg.
    While the proposed sale of 100 million barrels of the SPR may be a bet on America’s energy independence and security in the next decade, it is also raising concern that it could diminish the U.S. ability to respond to sudden major outages of oil supply as geopolitical woes are back on the oil market.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-08/u-s-oil-reserve-would-fall-nearly-in-half-under-budget-deal

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    • Replies: @renfro
    P.S.

    https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=33&t=6

    In 2017, the United States consumed an average of about 19.88 million barrels per day.

    Do the math .
    , @ploni almoni
    Isn't selling off the strategic oil reserve like burning the ships so that there can be no retreat, no going back and no choice but to go forward?
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  98. renfro says:
    @renfro
    This is the ultimate stupidity and a threat to national security. I am sure those who have seen thru Trump will get the full import of this and what is behind it. Selling off strategic assets and emergency reserves is something only a country headed toward going belly up would do. Just like the USSR did.

    U.S. mandates biggest non-emergency strategic oil sell-off

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/energy/2018/02/13/us-mandates-biggest-non-emergency-strategic-oil-sell-off/332885002/

    “This is nothing short of liquidation of a safety net.”

    President Donald Trump unveiled a $4.4 trillion budget for next year that heralds an era of $1 trillion-plus federal deficits and — unlike the plan he released last year — never comes close to promising a balanced ledger even after 10 years Time
    The budget deal that the U.S. Congress passed and President Donald Trump signed into law last Friday calls for selling 100 million barrels of the Strategic Petroleum Reserve (SPR) by 2027 to help fund the government.
    The sale of 100 million barrels of crude oil in the next decade would represent the largest non-emergency sell-off of strategic oil reserves and would equate to some 15% of the current stockpiles in the SPR.
    The mandate for the SPR sale has drawn criticism because, some experts say, it would blunt the purpose of the strategic reserve to mitigate major global oil supply disruptions or price shocks. Other critics have said that tapping the emergency oil reserve for non-energy needs of the government is short-sighted and that the SPR should not be used as a “government ATM.”
    The Bipartisan Budget Act of 2018 mandates the Secretary of Energy to draw down and sell from the SPR a total of 30 million barrels of crude oil between fiscal years 2022 and 2025; another 35 million barrels during fiscal year 2026; and an additional 35 million barrels in fiscal year 2027.

    In addition, under a budget deal from 2015, the Secretary of Energy is authorized to draw down up to $350 million worth of crude oil from the SPR in the 2018 fiscal year to use for modernization of the reserve.

    The budget deal also reduces the minimum required level in the reserve under which no drawdowns can be made, to 350 million barrels from 450 million barrels.

    According to the Congressional Budget Office, the sale of the 100 million barrels from the SPR would generate $6.36 billion between 2018 and 2027.
    As of February 2, 2018, the SPR held a total of 665.1 million barrels of crude oil, while the current storage capacity is 713.5 million barrels, according to the Department of Energy. The average price paid for oil in the Reserve is $29.70 per barrel.
    After the sale authorized last week will be completed by 2027, the SPR would hold 406 million barrels of oil, equal to around 56% of its capacity, according to DoE estimates quoted by Platts.
    Kevin Book, managing director at ClearView Energy Partners, told Platts that the 100-million-barrel sale was “a resounding declaration of lawmakers’ new perspective on energy security.”
    Book told Bloomberg that “This is nothing short of liquidation of a safety net.”
    Current and past energy officials also criticized the proposal for the largest non-emergency strategic oil sale in U.S. history.
    According to the Washington Post, the White House reportedly has unveiled plans to cut off the station’s funding by 2024.
    Energy Undersecretary Mark Menezes told Bloomberg in an interview that the SPR was not designed to serve as “a government ATM.”
    “My own view is that SPR was put in place as an energy security mechanism to ensure that we had supply,” Menezes noted.
    Bob McNally, president of consultancy Rapidan Energy Group and a former senior energy official at the White House under President George W. Bush, told Bloomberg that “Selling the SPR to cover non-energy budget expenses is deeply short-sighted and unwise.”
    “In 1996 and 1997 we sold SPR barrels to pay for unrelated budget expenses and I was in the White House when we put those barrels back at higher prices starting about five years later, after 9/11,” McNally said.
    “Geopolitical risk is alive and well in the oil market, and the SPR is America’s only formal short-term line of defense against oil supply disruptions and price spikes,” Robbie Diamond, president of Securing America’s Future Energy, told Bloomberg.
    While the proposed sale of 100 million barrels of the SPR may be a bet on America’s energy independence and security in the next decade, it is also raising concern that it could diminish the U.S. ability to respond to sudden major outages of oil supply as geopolitical woes are back on the oil market.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-08/u-s-oil-reserve-would-fall-nearly-in-half-under-budget-deal

    P.S.

    https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=33&t=6

    In 2017, the United States consumed an average of about 19.88 million barrels per day.

    Do the math .

    Read More
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  99. @nickels
    Yes, this jew loving legacy of victory day is interesting.
    To some extent the judeo part of Bolshevism was killed by the victory of Stalin over Trotsky, but, nonetheless, siding with jew Anglo's in the war created the very enemy that Russia is being destroyed by today, the ZangloHell empire.
    It is not unlike America's problem-we celebrate a war where we sided with the very force of jewry that is ripping our culture apart and spitting on our most sacred faith.
    Both countries have a generational cognitive dissonance related to the war. Patriotism requires celebrating it, yet survival requires realizing the whole thing was a dismal and shameful sham.
    I think only as the war generation passes can the revisionism come into the mainstream.
    Provided enough mass intelligence exists to do so, of which I am not hopeful, having sat through the many prayers for the state of Israhell while attended my Montana rural protestant church service with family this last week.

    … but, nonetheless, siding with jew Anglo’s in the war created the very enemy that Russia is being destroyed by today, the ZangloHell empire.

    That decision also created the enemy that badly damaged the Soviet Union back then.

    The Saker should stop talking about what he calls Ukronazis. Something went terribly wrong in non-Russian eastern Europe. The fact that even the Poles, who suffered enormously, prefer Germans to Russians – we are not talking about love – should give a Russian patriot (as opposed to nationalist) pause.

    No need to emulate the German cult of guilt, but a clear view of recent Russian history would be in order.

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    • Replies: @ploni almoni
    The Poles prefer the Germans to the Russians because the Poles are Catholic and the Russians are Orthodox. It is as simple as that. This is also the case of the Ukrainian Galicans, or what Saker calls UkroNazis because they make a hero out of Stepan Bandera. It was the Pope, not the Turks, who destroyed Constantinople ( Fourth Crusade in 1204.)
    , @ploni almoni
    There are others who would benefit even more by a clear view of their history.
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  100. @ChuckOrloski
    Frustrated with Felix, Sergey Krieger opined: "Until Russia returns to Stalin model at the core I see no happy future."

    Hi Sergey Krieger,

    Will prologue this comment with remembrance of the Saker's article title,
    "It all depends upon your values."

    Like ZAmerican dumb goyim masses, I predict you have rushed to judgement as to Dr. David Duke's "values," but at any rate, below he intelligently discussed one of the "Stalin model's" Zio-Soviet excesses.

    https://davidduke.com/dr-duke-eric-striker-on-zio-soviet-mass-murder-in-katyn-historic-jewish-role-worldwide-white-slavery/

    Selah, Poland handed over to Soviets and Yalta's virtuous Big 3 never having to say, "Sorry about that shit, polskies."

    Is it not amazing, how a war ostensibly started to keep Poland free from the Germans ended with Poland under the Russian yoke?

    Is it not amazing how everybody constantly reminds us of Gleiwitz, but nobody cares to talk about the Russian invasion a few days later, not answered by a british declaration of war?

    One wonders about the content of those foreign office files Mrs Thatcher decided to keep under lock for another half century first thing she was in office.

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    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    " Is it not amazing, how a war ostensibly started to keep Poland free from the Germans ended with Poland under the Russian yoke? "
    Now english is not my first language, but I suppose it should be:
    Is should not amaze anybody, how a war apparently started to freePoland from the Germans, ended with Poland under the Russian yoke.
    The 1933 FDR Stalin deal, including what Samuel Oppenheimer negotiated in Moscow, in my perception, Ockham's Razor, was that Stalin would spill Russian blood to let the USA conquer the greater part of Germany, in return for E Europe.
    What the USA's contribution would be was weapons, ammunition and food, LendLease.
    Giving the USSR plane technology began already in 1933:
    Franz Kurowski, 'Balkenkreuz und Roter Stern, Der Luftkrieg über Russland 1941 - 1944', 1984, Friedberg
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  101. Vojkan says:

    The Saker is a nice folk. Well, even if I agreed that there is such a thing as “moral values” in international relations, I’d have to disagree that Russia should support Iran based on them.
    One thing that strikes me when people write about Jewish influence in Russia is that they overkook the fact that Russia, in the sense of the Federation of Russia, not in the sense of a monolithic ethnic Russian state, is as much the motherland of Russian Jews as that of Russian Orthodox Christians, or Russian buddhists for that matter. Unlike the USA where they are as the vast majoriy of the population immigrants, in Russia they are natives, simply because they descend from Khazarians not from Judea. Therefore, Israel is not the only parameter that has to be taken into account when analysing their role in Russian politics.
    Second, all those people that Russia should support based on morals definitely would rather be recipients of US taxpayers’ “aid” money than Russia’s allies. Alas for them, they are perceived, rightly or wrongly, as standing in the way of Eretz Israel. What the USA did to Hussein and Qaddhafi also told them that the Americans cannot be trusted. However, if they see it as lucrative enough, they will no doubt turn their backs on Russia on first occasion.
    It’s not about values, it’s about Russians not having to suffer a Yugoslav scenario.

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  102. hunor says:
    @Jake
    "The Baltic statelets and the Swedes can continue to prepare for a Russian invasion of the want, but this nonsense is slowly losing its traction with EU politicians."

    The Swedish Elites are begging an army of Mohammedans to come to their country to rob, rape, and welfare it unto death, and those same Swedish Elites feel the need to prepare to repel a Russian invasion?

    Talk about suicidal ultra bleeding heart Liberals who hate their own people.

    you are a very confused human!

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  103. @M7
    Dear Saker,

    Your analysis is impeccable from the moral standpoint.
    It all resorts back to the "jewish problem" that seems to me is a constant along history.
    It's all there..whether "international Jew" of Ford, Charles Maurras writings, Hitler's Second Book and many many others. They were all right in their analysis re. the "chosen" .

    Except the world is grey...not black and white..and from this stand point longer it takes to push Russia into a corner (of chosing and involving itself on a side) better it is.
    The jewish conspiracy is the monumental achievement of mankind...chosen or goy alike.
    These people destroyed nations and crushed people (they used) without a second thought. They know how to manipulate the goym into mutual destruction...they never failed in history.

    Except when God himself gave them a good smack. ...they the game starts all over again...for about 300 years.
    Russia is too weak to fight such a conspiracy by herself. Maybe China...but Eastern peoples are too pragmatic for a moral stand.

    Probably the best is to pray for them the chosen ones (to find redemption and the path to light) and for ourselves, for our weaknesses exploited by them lead us to our demise.
    My take...is that the "chosen" conspiracy will only be eliminated by the jews themselves.

    ...then again... one gets further with good words and a gun then just with good words alone. So ...yes... Russia will make the right choice when pushed into a corner. Until then we all pray it gets stronger.

    I am not a Russian but I fully know and understand Russia's weaknesses and greatness. In terms of the "white man"...Russia is truly the last hope.

    Keep up the good work Saker

    China already has the usual infestation of the problematic sort of Jews. (Most of them.) Have you heard of the Harbin Jews? Guess who dominates their banking? Remember who “Israel” sells stolen US defence technology to? China.

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    • Replies: @M7
    Thanks for the update Rabbitnexus. I heard about the harbin jews..i just didn't know they were that strong.
    The interesting thing about the jewish oppression is that they were fought against when and where their power was the greatest. By this token one can expect an explosive revolt in US. The result will be the union's dissolution.
    It looks unlikely considering the "populus"...however..their 3rd and 4th level elites look good, prepared and knowledgeable.
    My thesis is that US will end in dissolution..but if this is so, the chosen ones have to jump into another country in order for them to have the chief dog in the hood barking their orders..
    ..and the world had run out of dogs that big. EU is a wasteland, US is not much better. All US needs to have is a sunken carrier and it'll be "welcome to the has been's"

    Everything the jewish conspiracy touched...it turned to crap. US will not fare better.
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  104. There is some cogent analysis here. What the author is basically saying is that the conflict is a recipe for a new cold war. There are some problems.

    What if Russia gets what it wants? If the US buys Russia’s cooperation and gets them to sell out their allies like Iran or Venezuela, it will split the coalition. The US has a strategy of divide and conquer.

    Playing China against North Korea.

    Playing Brazil and Columbia against Venezuela.

    Eastern Europe against Russia.

    The sovereignty being sought involves economic sovereignty. People need their own SWIFT system or something like it.

    Instead of fighting the Empire , try helping its opponents. Why is Venezuela having problems? What would be a good development model? Why is their agriculture not working? How do you fix its economy? Start with the basics.

    Fight Divide and Conquer with Unite and Prosper.

    BTW, Brazil, a key member of the BRICs is now under de facto martial law.

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  105. Che Guava says:

    Utu,

    I was fortunate to have been taugit by a very good (and old, maybe early seventies at the time) prof. who was still running a course titled Cybernetics much later than the period you cite. … and am understanding what you mean, of course, know the Greek etymology, and older US engineering usage, feedback control systems.

    My prof. took Wiener’s definition as the definition.

    The course was covering history (potential of the phase parametron, Kholmogorov’s maths, USAF attempt to model the eye of a pigeon, much more).

    One lesson that he was teaching really well was that, while the nervous system as a whole is multi-tasking, it is only the autonomic. The conscious mind is demonstrably not. … unless people claim it because they can’t concentrate.

    My hit essay for the course was on the visual cortices of frogs and cats.

    Beyond the history, perceptrons, layered pattern recognition and training of such, speculation on how neurons operate.

    The exam. was all to do with the maths of perceptrons and pattern recog. in general and information theory, other points with mathematical bases that the Prof. had raised.

    … so far from easy, and impossible for the categories mentioned in the next para.

    My point to you is not to dispute the definition of cybernetics, but that social studies, humanities, arts people who pretend even to partly comprehend these things are all full of faesces, to which I am sure you would agree.

    Even applied commerce in the form of very rapid computerised futures, stocks, etc. trading (IMHO should be banned), it is engineers (incl. computer) and mathematicians who do the work, the people they work for are very greedy, have much money, but are stupid about anything else.

    Excuse the overly long post, but would guessing you heard of the Alan Sokal ‘crime’, he wrote a stream of nonsense and had it published in a stupid sociology journal.

    If you have not, and for any readers, Sokal’s intentional nonsense and the many furious responses from social ‘science’ when they realised he’d fooled them into posting pure nonsense, very funny.

    BTW, I also loved assembly language the most. Very satisfying.

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS

    ...social studies, humanities, arts people who pretend even to partly comprehend these things are all full of faesces, to which I am sure you would agree.
     
    I do.

    The problem is not when they don't comprehend. It's when they sell, or even worse, force that to the common people.

    But, then, what's the alternative?
    We do need to understand those things and make the reality around us good enough to live in.

    I, personally, think that the core issue is humility. Or, better, a lack of it. Higher one rises, less of that remains today.
    I always, when watching a person in power, imagine that auriga with aurus crown. Romans did know a thing or two we willfully forgot at our peril.

    I am sure we'll pay a heavy price for that, sooner or later.
    Hopefully I won't be anymore around to see that.

    As for the assembly...hehe.....no wonder nobody in IT world cares for that (except those in security, of course) . Similar to humility in the world of power. Too close to reality.
    Too much work when only quick success is rewarded. Everywhere.

    And, as for humility...haha...how much of it you see on this Website?
    Crackup, a?
    , @edNels
    You bring many interesting separate issues in this comment, for one, what did you find out about frogs' vs cats' cortices? My untutored idea would be that really basic wiring and so on isn't too different from the fish on down the line to mammals, the functions work or not, means they don't eat.

    But as to the nervous system: […

    was that, while the nervous system as a whole is multi-tasking, it is only the autonomic. The conscious mind is demonstrably not.
     
    …]
    I take that to mean: that the NS multi-tasks automatically while the conscious is at the service of the Will, when we are on our game… able to concentrate!


    But the senses still have to be reliable whether one is a frog or a… high IQ idiot (hha).

    Well what they're doing is retro engineering organisms into machines and AI, (it's about as evil an undertaking as can ever be, just waiting for a virus that can also be thunk up).

    Thanks too for the Alan Sokal ''crime'' of making a mockery of phony science.

    Sokal’s intentional nonsense and the many furious responses from social ‘science’ when they realised he’d fooled them into posting pure nonsense, very funny.
     
    But that is a lesson for any truth teller who endeavors to upstage the mandarins of academia, and their trains of the trained… socie…U tee… similar to the gibberish that is accepted all around embellished with ARCANE mathematics symbols and cryptic notations, that are learned… after the gauntlet of many years of traversing the ''Weedouts'' and coming back for more, but then it's too late maybe, you have become the genius idiot, Ole Jonathan had some good ''notations'' and anachronisms or anagrams… ''overeducated low IQ idiots: ie: OLIQI's and on and on

    [

    many furious responses from social ‘science’many
     
    ]
    It's even funnier when pompous, pretentious, aloof professorial types loose it and get mad, from the pricking of the balloon of theirs with the obvious.

    Another study that would be interesting would be the myriad of fakery in animal world, mocking everything to gain advantage, lying pretending to look like a predator etc., pretending to be highly intelligent with white coats and 25 cent words! (or dirty teeshirts walking in circles...).

    Bottom, assembly language, that must be because it has to result in constructing something, must have integrity at core. Basic arithmetic is enjoyable, then the Stanford guys came up with The New Math, that was a stumbler for some of us. A weed out experiment in the '60's. Things do add up, there is a reason for dumbing down a population, they kill horses too.
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  106. @Max Havelaar
    My typo 1000.000 = 1 million = 10 exp 6.

    10 exp 12 =1 Trillion for cowboys. You got the exp. wrong!
    Ever solved convoluted integrals or differential equations?

    Your second alinea is more informational!

    Israel = also Russian maffia financial crime center, including Putin's billionaire (exp 9) friends!

    First of all, peace! I see now, a typo. All is forgiven and forgotten. When I saw all those zeros being tossed around, I thought I was dealing with a person like the one in the true anecdote below.

    A Lord Chancellor of the British Exchequer, while perusing a statistical report, remarked to his staff “Now isn’t it good, this something has gone up by 12%”. It was explained to his Lordship that the increase was 1.2%, not 12%, whereupon his Lordship replied, “Ah, I have often seen these damn little dots before but never knew until now what they meant”. Well, so much for dots and zeros, we are on the same page, typos notwithstanding. Let us turn to politics now.

    I don’t think Putin is a deliberate supporter of thugs and mafia types, nor is he corrupt himself. By the time that the USSR collapsed, a majority of its ruling elites had evolved into thugs and crooks. I think Russia remains stuck with the same problem even now; consequently, it cannot do enough to reverse the deep rot. Israel, in addition to UK and other countries, was a hot favourite destination for illegitimate wealth and dubious characters. The Russian jews, many of whom were from the Russian elite, found a very convenient new home in Israel. They have continued to retain their influence over Russian elites, and Putin has been unable, perhaps somewhat reluctant also for geopolitical reasons, to curb their influence over Russian politics. That is what I meant when I said that he is in Israeli pockets. BTW, this sort of moral rot in Russia also explains why pioneering capitalism never managed to take off in Russia. And moral and ethical rot is also becoming evident in American elites and ruling classes. A sad state of affairs, really, God knows how and when it will end.

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  107. Boris N says:

    Considering that the author has “integrated” himself extremely well into the West by choosing to live in the very center of the “Anglo-Zion” evil empire, the USA, and not opting to repatriate to his beloved Russia, about which he thinks practically every day and then dumps his 9000-words “essays” on us. If he thinks the Western integration is good for him, it might have been good for Russia, might it not? Otherwise it is very hypocritical.

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    • Replies: @peterAUS

    ....it is very hypocritical.
     
    Don't say......

    Saker is a smooth operator.

    His fans, followers and cultists are quite another matter.

    They are, apparently, in so bad shape that got hooked onto "that".

    Probably similar to people sticking to gurus, visiting sacred places, walking penance marches......anything to help them deal with harsh realities.

    There is a peculiar dynamics at work there. Cults in particular. Both a leader and led need each other bad. A peculiar.... "community".

    Well...if it helps dealing with the shit in their lives, not bad. Everyone wins.

    , @M7
    "hypocrisy" and "truth" are never mutually exclusive.
    The 9000 words essay... is the truth.
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  108. @byrresheim
    Is it not amazing, how a war ostensibly started to keep Poland free from the Germans ended with Poland under the Russian yoke?

    Is it not amazing how everybody constantly reminds us of Gleiwitz, but nobody cares to talk about the Russian invasion a few days later, not answered by a british declaration of war?

    One wonders about the content of those foreign office files Mrs Thatcher decided to keep under lock for another half century first thing she was in office.

    ” Is it not amazing, how a war ostensibly started to keep Poland free from the Germans ended with Poland under the Russian yoke? ”
    Now english is not my first language, but I suppose it should be:
    Is should not amaze anybody, how a war apparently started to freePoland from the Germans, ended with Poland under the Russian yoke.
    The 1933 FDR Stalin deal, including what Samuel Oppenheimer negotiated in Moscow, in my perception, Ockham’s Razor, was that Stalin would spill Russian blood to let the USA conquer the greater part of Germany, in return for E Europe.
    What the USA’s contribution would be was weapons, ammunition and food, LendLease.
    Giving the USSR plane technology began already in 1933:
    Franz Kurowski, ‘Balkenkreuz und Roter Stern, Der Luftkrieg über Russland 1941 – 1944′, 1984, Friedberg

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    20/20 Hindsight.
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  109. @Seamus Padraig

    We will see soon as Europe is now facing a stark choice, either join the US in even more sanctions on Iran, or not. And “not” means de-facto join Russia in her support for Iran ... So which will prevail? The cowardice and subservience of the European leaders or their greed?
     
    Looks like European cowardice wins again: https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2018/05/26/conditioned-into-servility-europe-meekly-retreats/1kHNUzSoKaUjzywwIiCMKL/story.html

    Well, well. That sure didn't take long, did it!


    There is a big difference between Iran and Syria though: the Russian public did support Putin’s argument that it is better to fight the Takfiris over “there” rather than right “here”. But Russians are most unlikely to support any risks of war (nevermind a war itself) unless it directly affects Russian national interests. On that Russians are split.
     
    True. But there's another big difference between Iran and Syria that Saker doesn't mention: unlike Syria, Iran has very close relations with China--and not just commercial ones either. The two countries have been doing joint naval drills in the Persian Gulf for a decade now.

    There is no Europe, except for the definition of a continent that ends east of Moscow at the Ural mountains.
    There is a EU, on the verge of disintegrating.
    The mass immigration is aimed at destroying the different European cultures, is the suspicion of more and more people, and this destruction may well succeed, but by then the EU will be history for at least decades.
    Part of the EU legacy will be civil wars.

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  110. peterAUS says:
    @Boris N
    Considering that the author has "integrated" himself extremely well into the West by choosing to live in the very center of the "Anglo-Zion" evil empire, the USA, and not opting to repatriate to his beloved Russia, about which he thinks practically every day and then dumps his 9000-words "essays" on us. If he thinks the Western integration is good for him, it might have been good for Russia, might it not? Otherwise it is very hypocritical.

    ….it is very hypocritical.

    Don’t say……

    Saker is a smooth operator.

    His fans, followers and cultists are quite another matter.

    They are, apparently, in so bad shape that got hooked onto “that”.

    Probably similar to people sticking to gurus, visiting sacred places, walking penance marches……anything to help them deal with harsh realities.

    There is a peculiar dynamics at work there. Cults in particular. Both a leader and led need each other bad. A peculiar…. “community”.

    Well…if it helps dealing with the shit in their lives, not bad. Everyone wins.

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  111. M7 says:
    @Rabbitnexus
    China already has the usual infestation of the problematic sort of Jews. (Most of them.) Have you heard of the Harbin Jews? Guess who dominates their banking? Remember who "Israel" sells stolen US defence technology to? China.

    Thanks for the update Rabbitnexus. I heard about the harbin jews..i just didn’t know they were that strong.
    The interesting thing about the jewish oppression is that they were fought against when and where their power was the greatest. By this token one can expect an explosive revolt in US. The result will be the union’s dissolution.
    It looks unlikely considering the “populus”…however..their 3rd and 4th level elites look good, prepared and knowledgeable.
    My thesis is that US will end in dissolution..but if this is so, the chosen ones have to jump into another country in order for them to have the chief dog in the hood barking their orders..
    ..and the world had run out of dogs that big. EU is a wasteland, US is not much better. All US needs to have is a sunken carrier and it’ll be “welcome to the has been’s”

    Everything the jewish conspiracy touched…it turned to crap. US will not fare better.

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  112. M7 says:
    @Boris N
    Considering that the author has "integrated" himself extremely well into the West by choosing to live in the very center of the "Anglo-Zion" evil empire, the USA, and not opting to repatriate to his beloved Russia, about which he thinks practically every day and then dumps his 9000-words "essays" on us. If he thinks the Western integration is good for him, it might have been good for Russia, might it not? Otherwise it is very hypocritical.

    “hypocrisy” and “truth” are never mutually exclusive.
    The 9000 words essay… is the truth.

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  113. peterAUS says:
    @Che Guava
    Utu,

    I was fortunate to have been taugit by a very good (and old, maybe early seventies at the time) prof. who was still running a course titled Cybernetics much later than the period you cite. ... and am understanding what you mean, of course, know the Greek etymology, and older US engineering usage, feedback control systems.

    My prof. took Wiener's definition as the definition.

    The course was covering history (potential of the phase parametron, Kholmogorov's maths, USAF attempt to model the eye of a pigeon, much more).

    One lesson that he was teaching really well was that, while the nervous system as a whole is multi-tasking, it is only the autonomic. The conscious mind is demonstrably not. ... unless people claim it because they can't concentrate.

    My hit essay for the course was on the visual cortices of frogs and cats.

    Beyond the history, perceptrons, layered pattern recognition and training of such, speculation on how neurons operate.

    The exam. was all to do with the maths of perceptrons and pattern recog. in general and information theory, other points with mathematical bases that the Prof. had raised.

    ... so far from easy, and impossible for the categories mentioned in the next para.

    My point to you is not to dispute the definition of cybernetics, but that social studies, humanities, arts people who pretend even to partly comprehend these things are all full of faesces, to which I am sure you would agree.

    Even applied commerce in the form of very rapid computerised futures, stocks, etc. trading (IMHO should be banned), it is engineers (incl. computer) and mathematicians who do the work, the people they work for are very greedy, have much money, but are stupid about anything else.

    Excuse the overly long post, but would guessing you heard of the Alan Sokal 'crime', he wrote a stream of nonsense and had it published in a stupid sociology journal.

    If you have not, and for any readers, Sokal's intentional nonsense and the many furious responses from social 'science' when they realised he'd fooled them into posting pure nonsense, very funny.

    BTW, I also loved assembly language the most. Very satisfying.

    …social studies, humanities, arts people who pretend even to partly comprehend these things are all full of faesces, to which I am sure you would agree.

    I do.

    The problem is not when they don’t comprehend. It’s when they sell, or even worse, force that to the common people.

    But, then, what’s the alternative?
    We do need to understand those things and make the reality around us good enough to live in.

    I, personally, think that the core issue is humility. Or, better, a lack of it. Higher one rises, less of that remains today.
    I always, when watching a person in power, imagine that auriga with aurus crown. Romans did know a thing or two we willfully forgot at our peril.

    I am sure we’ll pay a heavy price for that, sooner or later.
    Hopefully I won’t be anymore around to see that.

    As for the assembly…hehe…..no wonder nobody in IT world cares for that (except those in security, of course) . Similar to humility in the world of power. Too close to reality.
    Too much work when only quick success is rewarded. Everywhere.

    And, as for humility…haha…how much of it you see on this Website?
    Crackup, a?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Blue Pilgrim
    One major problem when writing code with an assembler is that it isn't portable to other or newer machines with a different instruction set. At this point with machines so fast and with so much memory the efficiency is not needed. I have a raft of old C programs that won't work with newer machines and OSes. It's also harder to debug. And, of course, takes much longer to write. The C compilers I used had an option for generating assemble instead of com or exe files, so you could tweak whatever you wanted anyway. I never did get into the cultish aspects of programming, but used what worked best for the circumstances.

    As for sociology, art, humanities, or other modes of thinking, I worked in those, at whatever levels of abstraction was appropriate too. people should work on being polymaths and generalists. Many things which are real cannot be adequately described or communicate with traditional math or science, or the reflection/correspondence paradigm, or standard deductive, binary logic (quantum mechanics being one example). "the Universe in not only queerer than we imagine, is queerer than we can imagine." - John B. S. Haldane"

    'New Math', BTW, is just an introduction (often badly done) of things such as set theory, abstract algebra, probability, arithmetic with different bases, and the 'higher' maths not usually taught to kids when young. But it isn't really new at all.

    There is as much ignorance around in math and science as in sociology, history, and art from what I can see: bad education (and bad philosophy and epistemology) is found everywhere in all areas. For instance, it's still common to hear people talk about energy as if it was anything other than the description of interrelationships between elements with a context of spacetime, an inertial frame, or a physical system model. Language is very sloppily used and myths abound and are institutionally passed on. The US, at least, is still very anti-intellectual and incurious, with little respect for 'truth' -- which explains how a Trump, or a Clinton, et al could even be considered as candidates for high office, and why the media bread and circuses are not laughed into non-existence. Most people a few decades just to unlearn all the rubbish they believe and mistake for knowledge. We are all contaminated with this nonsense.
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  114. edNels says:
    @Che Guava
    Utu,

    I was fortunate to have been taugit by a very good (and old, maybe early seventies at the time) prof. who was still running a course titled Cybernetics much later than the period you cite. ... and am understanding what you mean, of course, know the Greek etymology, and older US engineering usage, feedback control systems.

    My prof. took Wiener's definition as the definition.

    The course was covering history (potential of the phase parametron, Kholmogorov's maths, USAF attempt to model the eye of a pigeon, much more).

    One lesson that he was teaching really well was that, while the nervous system as a whole is multi-tasking, it is only the autonomic. The conscious mind is demonstrably not. ... unless people claim it because they can't concentrate.

    My hit essay for the course was on the visual cortices of frogs and cats.

    Beyond the history, perceptrons, layered pattern recognition and training of such, speculation on how neurons operate.

    The exam. was all to do with the maths of perceptrons and pattern recog. in general and information theory, other points with mathematical bases that the Prof. had raised.

    ... so far from easy, and impossible for the categories mentioned in the next para.

    My point to you is not to dispute the definition of cybernetics, but that social studies, humanities, arts people who pretend even to partly comprehend these things are all full of faesces, to which I am sure you would agree.

    Even applied commerce in the form of very rapid computerised futures, stocks, etc. trading (IMHO should be banned), it is engineers (incl. computer) and mathematicians who do the work, the people they work for are very greedy, have much money, but are stupid about anything else.

    Excuse the overly long post, but would guessing you heard of the Alan Sokal 'crime', he wrote a stream of nonsense and had it published in a stupid sociology journal.

    If you have not, and for any readers, Sokal's intentional nonsense and the many furious responses from social 'science' when they realised he'd fooled them into posting pure nonsense, very funny.

    BTW, I also loved assembly language the most. Very satisfying.

    You bring many interesting separate issues in this comment, for one, what did you find out about frogs’ vs cats’ cortices? My untutored idea would be that really basic wiring and so on isn’t too different from the fish on down the line to mammals, the functions work or not, means they don’t eat.

    But as to the nervous system: […

    was that, while the nervous system as a whole is multi-tasking, it is only the autonomic. The conscious mind is demonstrably not.

    …]
    I take that to mean: that the NS multi-tasks automatically while the conscious is at the service of the Will, when we are on our game… able to concentrate!

    But the senses still have to be reliable whether one is a frog or a… high IQ idiot (hha).

    Well what they’re doing is retro engineering organisms into machines and AI, (it’s about as evil an undertaking as can ever be, just waiting for a virus that can also be thunk up).

    Thanks too for the Alan Sokal ”crime” of making a mockery of phony science.

    Sokal’s intentional nonsense and the many furious responses from social ‘science’ when they realised he’d fooled them into posting pure nonsense, very funny.

    But that is a lesson for any truth teller who endeavors to upstage the mandarins of academia, and their trains of the trained… socie…U tee… similar to the gibberish that is accepted all around embellished with ARCANE mathematics symbols and cryptic notations, that are learned… after the gauntlet of many years of traversing the ”Weedouts” and coming back for more, but then it’s too late maybe, you have become the genius idiot, Ole Jonathan had some good ”notations” and anachronisms or anagrams… ”overeducated low IQ idiots: ie: OLIQI’s and on and on

    [

    many furious responses from social ‘science’many

    ]
    It’s even funnier when pompous, pretentious, aloof professorial types loose it and get mad, from the pricking of the balloon of theirs with the obvious.

    Another study that would be interesting would be the myriad of fakery in animal world, mocking everything to gain advantage, lying pretending to look like a predator etc., pretending to be highly intelligent with white coats and 25 cent words! (or dirty teeshirts walking in circles…).

    Bottom, assembly language, that must be because it has to result in constructing something, must have integrity at core. Basic arithmetic is enjoyable, then the Stanford guys came up with The New Math, that was a stumbler for some of us. A weed out experiment in the ’60′s. Things do add up, there is a reason for dumbing down a population, they kill horses too.

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    • Replies: @peterAUS

    Bottom, assembly language, that must be because it has to result in constructing something, must have integrity at core.
     
    Agree.
    Integrity, as concept, and I'd add humility.
    Imagine, for five seconds, any person in power today with those two attributes.
    Any.....

    As for this:


    ...there is a reason for dumbing down a population, they kill horses too.
     
    agree that "they" want to dumb down the masses. Always have.
    But, and the big but, the masses don't mind that. One could even conclude they like it. Oh, yes, they say they don't. They say a lot. Don't do much though.
    Say, lazy and when things don't go their way then, and only then, they say "we were deceived".
    Romans, again: Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur.

    A perfect combination.
    What could go wrong there.....

    , @Che Guava
    Thanks for the kind reply.

    To give a simplistic response on one point, the visual systems in both frogs (especially the ones that have a taste for flying insects) and cats are specialised for detecting motion.

    In the case of frogs, it is perception of point-on-background motion.

    For cats, it is a visual field, but they are specialised to see motiom in the field, so are not very interested in the static, and their visual cortices turn motion into something like what we see as light or dark.

    Consider a kitten setting something in motion and then getting excited about chasing it. There is no notion of causality, it is just the way cats are. Some stupid people think'oh, that's so cute', but it is really because the visual cortex of a cat makes motion vectors into a visual sense, so amything that is in motion in the near field and not much bigger than them, may be prey.

    My writing in my old essay was much better and far more detailed (particularly on frogs and neuronal structure) but the core elements are above.
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  115. Iris says:
    @renfro

    That self-interest dictates that Russia will attempt to develop economically. And I don’t see any reason why Putin can’t court better relations with both the EU and China at the same time
     
    Which is exactly what Putin is doing.
    People commenting on Russia should spend more time reading the overseas and financial papers to see what is really happening instead of guessing and theorizing.
    Putin has struck deals already with India, Greece and Germany on trade, construction projects and the Russia gas pipeline to Germany which Merkel and Putin announced 2 weeks ago.

    Imo...and I've been watching Putin for 16 years....he's currently content to let the US, Saudi and Israel huff and puff and spill their spleens on Iran.....while he's out gathering economic deals and getting chummy with European and other leaders.
    On the issue of Jews/Israel.....I think he side steps that for the purpose of avoiding the barrage of "Putin is the new Hitler ! " crap that would be ginned up against him.
    And as far as stepping into to protect Iran, when Putin's red lines, whatever they are, are crossed I think he will 'aid' Iran...and the diplomatic smoozing he's doing now may be valuable then.

    Putin's already got his speech ready for that event...it will be all about "international order" and the 'economic chaos' the US-Israel are causing.
    Europe doesn't have the moral balls to do anything about Palestine suffering, they only give it lip service but when the US and Israel start messing with Iran it will be different because they will be messing with global economy.

    …”US and Israel start messing with Iran it will be different because they will be messing with global economy”

    The global economy is already messed up beyond repair, as it has been destroyed by the parasitic Anglo-Zionist financial oligarchy.

    China and Russia will not let Iran go down because they must commit to their own national interests and survival in the new economic order that is bound to appear.

    China offering to purchase Total’s 51% stakes of South Pars giant Iranian gas project, in case the French company had to abide by US sanction, is a strong sign.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-nuclear-cnpc-total/chinas-cnpc-ready-to-take-over-iran-project-if-total-leaves-sources-idUSKBN1IC0TE

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  116. peterAUS says:
    @edNels
    You bring many interesting separate issues in this comment, for one, what did you find out about frogs' vs cats' cortices? My untutored idea would be that really basic wiring and so on isn't too different from the fish on down the line to mammals, the functions work or not, means they don't eat.

    But as to the nervous system: […

    was that, while the nervous system as a whole is multi-tasking, it is only the autonomic. The conscious mind is demonstrably not.
     
    …]
    I take that to mean: that the NS multi-tasks automatically while the conscious is at the service of the Will, when we are on our game… able to concentrate!


    But the senses still have to be reliable whether one is a frog or a… high IQ idiot (hha).

    Well what they're doing is retro engineering organisms into machines and AI, (it's about as evil an undertaking as can ever be, just waiting for a virus that can also be thunk up).

    Thanks too for the Alan Sokal ''crime'' of making a mockery of phony science.

    Sokal’s intentional nonsense and the many furious responses from social ‘science’ when they realised he’d fooled them into posting pure nonsense, very funny.
     
    But that is a lesson for any truth teller who endeavors to upstage the mandarins of academia, and their trains of the trained… socie…U tee… similar to the gibberish that is accepted all around embellished with ARCANE mathematics symbols and cryptic notations, that are learned… after the gauntlet of many years of traversing the ''Weedouts'' and coming back for more, but then it's too late maybe, you have become the genius idiot, Ole Jonathan had some good ''notations'' and anachronisms or anagrams… ''overeducated low IQ idiots: ie: OLIQI's and on and on

    [

    many furious responses from social ‘science’many
     
    ]
    It's even funnier when pompous, pretentious, aloof professorial types loose it and get mad, from the pricking of the balloon of theirs with the obvious.

    Another study that would be interesting would be the myriad of fakery in animal world, mocking everything to gain advantage, lying pretending to look like a predator etc., pretending to be highly intelligent with white coats and 25 cent words! (or dirty teeshirts walking in circles...).

    Bottom, assembly language, that must be because it has to result in constructing something, must have integrity at core. Basic arithmetic is enjoyable, then the Stanford guys came up with The New Math, that was a stumbler for some of us. A weed out experiment in the '60's. Things do add up, there is a reason for dumbing down a population, they kill horses too.

    Bottom, assembly language, that must be because it has to result in constructing something, must have integrity at core.

    Agree.
    Integrity, as concept, and I’d add humility.
    Imagine, for five seconds, any person in power today with those two attributes.
    Any…..

    As for this:

    …there is a reason for dumbing down a population, they kill horses too.

    agree that “they” want to dumb down the masses. Always have.
    But, and the big but, the masses don’t mind that. One could even conclude they like it. Oh, yes, they say they don’t. They say a lot. Don’t do much though.
    Say, lazy and when things don’t go their way then, and only then, they say “we were deceived”.
    Romans, again: Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur.

    A perfect combination.
    What could go wrong there…..

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  117. Iris says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    But that does not change the fact that the triangle Israel-Palestine-Iran presents a crucial spiritual, ethical, moral and civilizational challenge to Russia...
     
    No.

    A Zionist who does not understand the adjectives “moral”, “ethical” and “spiritual”.

    Lol, what a surprise !!!

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  118. @peterAUS

    ...social studies, humanities, arts people who pretend even to partly comprehend these things are all full of faesces, to which I am sure you would agree.
     
    I do.

    The problem is not when they don't comprehend. It's when they sell, or even worse, force that to the common people.

    But, then, what's the alternative?
    We do need to understand those things and make the reality around us good enough to live in.

    I, personally, think that the core issue is humility. Or, better, a lack of it. Higher one rises, less of that remains today.
    I always, when watching a person in power, imagine that auriga with aurus crown. Romans did know a thing or two we willfully forgot at our peril.

    I am sure we'll pay a heavy price for that, sooner or later.
    Hopefully I won't be anymore around to see that.

    As for the assembly...hehe.....no wonder nobody in IT world cares for that (except those in security, of course) . Similar to humility in the world of power. Too close to reality.
    Too much work when only quick success is rewarded. Everywhere.

    And, as for humility...haha...how much of it you see on this Website?
    Crackup, a?

    One major problem when writing code with an assembler is that it isn’t portable to other or newer machines with a different instruction set. At this point with machines so fast and with so much memory the efficiency is not needed. I have a raft of old C programs that won’t work with newer machines and OSes. It’s also harder to debug. And, of course, takes much longer to write. The C compilers I used had an option for generating assemble instead of com or exe files, so you could tweak whatever you wanted anyway. I never did get into the cultish aspects of programming, but used what worked best for the circumstances.

    As for sociology, art, humanities, or other modes of thinking, I worked in those, at whatever levels of abstraction was appropriate too. people should work on being polymaths and generalists. Many things which are real cannot be adequately described or communicate with traditional math or science, or the reflection/correspondence paradigm, or standard deductive, binary logic (quantum mechanics being one example). “the Universe in not only queerer than we imagine, is queerer than we can imagine.” – John B. S. Haldane”

    ‘New Math’, BTW, is just an introduction (often badly done) of things such as set theory, abstract algebra, probability, arithmetic with different bases, and the ‘higher’ maths not usually taught to kids when young. But it isn’t really new at all.

    There is as much ignorance around in math and science as in sociology, history, and art from what I can see: bad education (and bad philosophy and epistemology) is found everywhere in all areas. For instance, it’s still common to hear people talk about energy as if it was anything other than the description of interrelationships between elements with a context of spacetime, an inertial frame, or a physical system model. Language is very sloppily used and myths abound and are institutionally passed on. The US, at least, is still very anti-intellectual and incurious, with little respect for ‘truth’ — which explains how a Trump, or a Clinton, et al could even be considered as candidates for high office, and why the media bread and circuses are not laughed into non-existence. Most people a few decades just to unlearn all the rubbish they believe and mistake for knowledge. We are all contaminated with this nonsense.

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  119. peterAUS says:

    One major problem when writing code with an assembler is that it isn’t portable to other or newer machines with a different instruction set. At this point with machines so fast and with so much memory the efficiency is not needed. I have a raft of old C programs that won’t work with newer machines and OSes. It’s also harder to debug. And, of course, takes much longer to write. The C compilers I used had an option for generating assemble instead of com or exe files, so you could tweak whatever you wanted anyway. I never did get into the cultish aspects of programming, but used what worked best for the circumstances.

    True.

    But, if you want to get any reasonable understanding of IT security, in fact any digital security, assembly is a must.
    Then, the Skynet…I mean IoT, AI and the works. Programming chips in smart (tomorrow probably all) electronic devices.
    Getting into not only (published) instruction set of that particular chip, but even into microcode and pure electronics.
    So, while you are definitely correct re production/development, anything above assembly simply isn’t good enough for security.

    As for sociology, art, humanities, or other modes of thinking, I worked in those, at whatever levels of abstraction was appropriate too. people should work on being polymaths and generalists. Many things which are real cannot be adequately described or communicate with traditional math or science, or the reflection/correspondence paradigm, or standard deductive, binary logic (quantum mechanics being one example). “the Universe in not only queerer than we imagine, is queerer than we can imagine.” – John B. S. Haldane”

    Agree.
    Still, we must understand as much as possible. A conundrum, a?

    We are all contaminated with this nonsense.

    Worse.
    We are ruled by “this nonsense”.

    But..hehe…we are getting phylosophical here …not quite a place for that, I don’t think The Problem is about knowledge in all that you mentioned above.
    I believe the problem is in integrity and, even more, in humility. That’s for elites.
    For commoners (as guys like me for example), the problem is intellectual and moral laziness and hypocrisy.
    Simple things addressed, over and over, from the beginning of written history.

    When I look at Washington I see Rome. The worst excesses of Rome that is.
    The same applies for the rest of the world.

    We developed technology Romans couldn’t dream of; we also forgot the basics about people and society Romans understood so well.

    Wouldn’t have been a problem had we not developed The Nuke.
    That’s why I blame Dem Jews for all the present ills around me. Einstein, Szilard and that cunt Oppenheimer. I mean we have to find somebody to blame. An easy target, preferably.
    Without them we would’ve had just decent big war as we speak, moderate reset and back to normal.
    Like since Babylon…..

    Now we can’t.

    Or we can, and most likely will, just the reset and the result won’t be as pretty.

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  120. Anna says: • Website

    It would be nice if Putin was not a Zionist puppet like Trump, Obama, Bush, Clinton, Merkel, & Co. Some people think Putin is his own man like some people believe Trump is his own man, but evidence at links like the one below is very convincing -

    https://sites.google.com/site/msgs2read2/zionist-russia

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  121. Speaking of rubbish and nonsense from the ‘establishment’ …

    Somewhat peripherally related perhaps, but too good not the mention if anyone doesn’t know about this.

    Media on Trial, Leeds, 2018 (about propaganda supporting the war on terror and on Syria)

    https://www.mediaontrial.uk/media-on-trial-leeds-2018/ has been conducted and is now publicly available

    https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=media+on+trial+2018+leeds

    http://21stcenturywire.com/2018/05/27/episode-235-special-media-on-trial-live-with-guests/ Audio — presentations begin at about 35 minutes.

    This event was highly repressed by the UK and media, including Leeds cancelling permission to use the city museum there forcing the organizers to find an alternative venue.

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  122. prusmc says: • Website
    @jilles dykstra
    Well, until someone explains to me what benefit Russian troops expected from shooting down a passenger plane, I'm not accepting that they did it.
    It may have been an 'accident', it seems that Ukraine abused commercial overflights to shield their bombers.
    In this case in my opinion Ukraine is the guilty party.
    I've never seen explained why Kiev flight controllers ordered the plane to fly at a lower altitude.
    This lower altitude, BTW, supports the theory that an Ukrainian jet shot down the plane.
    The pilot who might have done this is dead, suicide.
    It is common in political murders to kill the murderer(s).
    I'm keeping an open mind, but as with Sept 11, do not expect to get ever the truth officially.
    Katyn took over forty years.

    Good point! I am also sure that the killers of Marc Rich sleep with the fishes.

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  123. anoni says:
    @Dmitry
    Switzerland is lowering taxes, increasing pension payments, and banning minarets. Each of which benefits them, more than any issue could in the Middle East.

    As for Russia - even with a somehow successful total victory for Iran (or for Israel, whichever of the two sides Kremlin favoured in a war which is not clear at the moment), there would be the most limited benefit to the country, beyond arms sales and some influence increase. And certainly no civilization advancement.

    The only way to benefit in a significant way from the Middle East is to 'conquer it and steal their oil' (in the dream of Trump), while preventing their people from emigrating to you.

    The region is mostly giant trap, where the best move is usually stand back and order popcorn. It's one of the most obvious trap regions in the world, even for people who like the climate, or support one of the different sides of conflict for moral, personal or aesthetic reasons.

    [The only way to benefit in a significant way from the Middle East is to ‘conquer it and steal their oil’ (in the dream of Trump), while preventing their people from emigrating to you.

    You and the one who 'AGREED', Karlin are racist zionists from Jewish mafia who must be destroyed to save humanity. How much more do you want to STEAL racist mafia.
    You racist baby killers ,for time being get the following, but you will get something much bigger later racists, thieves, terrorists.

    People of this site should expose these racist scums all over the world

    Lil Abner says:

    I had high hopes that Mr. Putin would stabilize the situation in Syria and maintain that nation’s territorial integrity. Those hopes are being dashed. I understand that all nations will act in accordance with their perceived nation interest. However, I fail to see how accommodating Israeli barbarism and bigotry is in Russian national interests, Syrian national interests, nor in furtherance of international law. I am reminded of the words of Winston Churchill on the eve of WWII: “Stop it. Stop it. Stop it before it is too late!”

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  124. Saxon says:
    @Blue Pilgrim
    (Not a real expert, but have some experience and some study behind me.)

    "Real programmers use C, with assembly subroutines where needed" Assembly is a pain in the neck and takes too long to write. In short you use high level and low level as appropriate. And you do proper testing to make sure the program works right, using all sorts of test data -- not just the stuff that is easy to handle, but nasty exceptions too, and with graceful error correction.
    Good programs also use modeling that accurately and usefully reflect the real world, and which are compatible with the way the clients (users) work and understand their jobs. The clients/users understand their world and job better than anyone else, so are the primary source of what the program should do and how.

    That's not so different from any good management or governance, or doing things intelligently. The principles of competence are broad and apply most everywhere, and have to include good communication, feedback, and evaluation. And that last point is why democracy is so important, why input (feedback), and communication, from the people is so critical. It's why the brass in the military need to hear what the lower level troops see and say, and why companies need to pay attention to the workers on the floor (be it factory or retail floors).

    The real source of knowledge, even if needed to be properly aggregated and interpreted, is found at the low level, common people sectors, and abstraction has to be subservient to those realities.

    Ask the people: do they want war (especially nuclear war)? They know the right answer -- of course not. Do the elite allow a vote on this, or even truthful information to get out? Not at all. Basic violation of feedback. A vote for another fascist every 2 or 4 years and ignoring people otherwise violate requisite variety rule -- i.e., leads to the controlling elites having no clue what is really going on, and substituting manipulation, deceptive propaganda and brainwashing for democratic process.

    And then, without the wars and exploitation of other countries, there would be immigration crisis as people fled from their native areas which have become filled with violence or unlivable. And there would be no need to demonized immigrants in the US, which are sill just a small portion of the population, as scapegoats. And with good representation from workers -- honest and effective unions -- skilled workers could not easily pushed out for the cheaper labor of undocumented immigrants desperate for any kind of work so they can stay alive, and have so little power they can't object to being exploited, while being threatened with deportation.

    If companies were run by the workers they could take advantage of automation and not lose all their income, and could largely avoid their jobs being shipped overseas and left on the street so that the wealthy owners got even richer. (See https://www.democracyatwork.info/ ).

    The social, economic, and political system in the US now is unsustainable -- 'nonviable' -- and those who run it either ignore the reality or are unaware of it or don't know what to do to change it. The management and control methods are atrocious. The root word for cybernetics goes back to the ancient Greek for 'steer'; where is this 'ship of state' and world, being steered, how, and by whom? What voice (feedback) do the people have in the decisions? It's like a house heating system without a thermostat. It's like the song 'Hip deep in the big muddy'. It's not even a real system when you take the whole country, or world, into consideration.

    immigrants in the US, which are sill just a small portion of the population

    Small percentage? In the under 20s age group, the native founding racial stock of Europeans are now a minority, and that’s with a skewed definition of what “white” is that includes various non-Europeans.

    You and I have a different definition of “small.” This is genocide levels of immigration. It is transformative, nation-ending, civilization-ending, race-ending immigration levels.

    Then again your entire post is full of lunatic bromides like “undocumented immigrants” so I guess I shouldn’t be surprised at how insane you are.

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    • Replies: @Blue Pilgrim
    Total number of immigrants in US runs about 13 1/2 % -- undocumented (illegal) immigrants is only about 11 million.
    European stock was never native, of course, but immigrated from Europe. The genocide was against the real natives -- often called 'Indians', and include those who lived south of the current US borders. Everyone else here are immigrants or descended from immigrants.

    I'll pass on trying to figure level of sanity with this issue (or even talking about racism), since the facts are easy enough to find.
    , @peterAUS

    It is transformative, nation-ending, civilization-ending, race-ending immigration levels.
     
    Correct.

    Then again your entire post is full of lunatic bromides like “undocumented immigrants” so I guess I shouldn’t be surprised at how insane you are.
     
    Not quite. On the contrary, in fact.

    His posts here represent thinking of a very well organized group which knows exactly what they want and has been working very well on execution of their plan.
    I am sure you don't need explaining that.

    Actually, if one wants to find anyone, say, "insane" ((I'd say "stupid") it's the mass of intellectually and morally lazy American whites.

    So....we'll see what happens.....
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  125. @Saxon

    immigrants in the US, which are sill just a small portion of the population
     
    Small percentage? In the under 20s age group, the native founding racial stock of Europeans are now a minority, and that's with a skewed definition of what "white" is that includes various non-Europeans.

    You and I have a different definition of "small." This is genocide levels of immigration. It is transformative, nation-ending, civilization-ending, race-ending immigration levels.

    Then again your entire post is full of lunatic bromides like "undocumented immigrants" so I guess I shouldn't be surprised at how insane you are.

    Total number of immigrants in US runs about 13 1/2 % — undocumented (illegal) immigrants is only about 11 million.
    European stock was never native, of course, but immigrated from Europe. The genocide was against the real natives — often called ‘Indians’, and include those who lived south of the current US borders. Everyone else here are immigrants or descended from immigrants.

    I’ll pass on trying to figure level of sanity with this issue (or even talking about racism), since the facts are easy enough to find.

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    • Replies: @nickels
    Native Americas are neither native nor American. They are immigrants from Asia, who genocided the first Americans, the Soultreans of Europe.
    The Indian heathens were savages who had too much land for decency. If they had played nice they could have shared the bounty, but the godless savages started a war they couldn't win.

    *revisionism is a bitch
    , @Saxon
    The US was around a 90% European ancestry nation a little over 50 years ago. By 90% European, I mean around 90% of the people were of fully European ancestry. The number of "current generation immigrants" is irrelevant--what really matters is the remaining percentage of those founding stock Europeans who are either English or like the English and were let in by the immigration acts present from 1970 to 1965. The people who came after are not Americans as per the founding fathers and any sane definition of nationhood since they have no ancestral connection to the founding stock peoples of America whatsoever.

    This is very important because we know exactly what will happen once the European-derived population has been politically dispossessed and put under the boot of other groups. We have powerful examples within living memory; Rhodesia and now South Africa. We can already see what's planned with the calls for violence against whites, the demand for increased affirmative action style handouts at white's expense and so on.

    And no, there was no America before the Europeans came. Where is America the country or anything resembling anything other than a bunch of hunter-gather savages running about a wilderness before the Europeans came? There wasn't anything else. It's obvious who built the country.
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  126. peterAUS says:
    @Saxon

    immigrants in the US, which are sill just a small portion of the population
     
    Small percentage? In the under 20s age group, the native founding racial stock of Europeans are now a minority, and that's with a skewed definition of what "white" is that includes various non-Europeans.

    You and I have a different definition of "small." This is genocide levels of immigration. It is transformative, nation-ending, civilization-ending, race-ending immigration levels.

    Then again your entire post is full of lunatic bromides like "undocumented immigrants" so I guess I shouldn't be surprised at how insane you are.

    It is transformative, nation-ending, civilization-ending, race-ending immigration levels.

    Correct.

    Then again your entire post is full of lunatic bromides like “undocumented immigrants” so I guess I shouldn’t be surprised at how insane you are.

    Not quite. On the contrary, in fact.

    His posts here represent thinking of a very well organized group which knows exactly what they want and has been working very well on execution of their plan.
    I am sure you don’t need explaining that.

    Actually, if one wants to find anyone, say, “insane” ((I’d say “stupid”) it’s the mass of intellectually and morally lazy American whites.

    So….we’ll see what happens…..

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    • Replies: @Blue Pilgrim
    Organized group? Who? I have known only one other person who thinks anything at all like me, and he is far away and I haven't seen him years. I've heard or read a few people, such as on the internet, who might think something like me in some areas, but I don't know for sure, and I have no connection with them -- or any with organization.
    Mostly what I want is to allowed to live out my life modestly in peace, in at least a semi-sane, peaceful, civilized world without the constant agitation from the psychopaths (but I don't expect it and it's not getting any better). The best I've come up with is having a few cats, who also seem to be somewhat anarcho-socialist and mostly mind their own business, live and let live. One thing I am not, is organized.

    If all people minded their own business more and stopped attacking others, trying to tell them how live, only cooperating voluntarily as a general principal, the world would be a better place. But that leaves out liberals, conservatives, and many others who tend to be arrogant (especially Americans, and many in 'the West' who are imperialist, too ambitious and egotistic, and greedy).
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  127. nickels says:
    @Blue Pilgrim
    Total number of immigrants in US runs about 13 1/2 % -- undocumented (illegal) immigrants is only about 11 million.
    European stock was never native, of course, but immigrated from Europe. The genocide was against the real natives -- often called 'Indians', and include those who lived south of the current US borders. Everyone else here are immigrants or descended from immigrants.

    I'll pass on trying to figure level of sanity with this issue (or even talking about racism), since the facts are easy enough to find.

    Native Americas are neither native nor American. They are immigrants from Asia, who genocided the first Americans, the Soultreans of Europe.
    The Indian heathens were savages who had too much land for decency. If they had played nice they could have shared the bounty, but the godless savages started a war they couldn’t win.

    *revisionism is a bitch

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    • Replies: @Blue Pilgrim
    Speaking of revisionism...
    The soultrean hypothesis is a rather speculative fringe theory, and 20,000 years is well before my time, so I can't say much about it.
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  128. @peterAUS

    It is transformative, nation-ending, civilization-ending, race-ending immigration levels.
     
    Correct.

    Then again your entire post is full of lunatic bromides like “undocumented immigrants” so I guess I shouldn’t be surprised at how insane you are.
     
    Not quite. On the contrary, in fact.

    His posts here represent thinking of a very well organized group which knows exactly what they want and has been working very well on execution of their plan.
    I am sure you don't need explaining that.

    Actually, if one wants to find anyone, say, "insane" ((I'd say "stupid") it's the mass of intellectually and morally lazy American whites.

    So....we'll see what happens.....

    Organized group? Who? I have known only one other person who thinks anything at all like me, and he is far away and I haven’t seen him years. I’ve heard or read a few people, such as on the internet, who might think something like me in some areas, but I don’t know for sure, and I have no connection with them — or any with organization.
    Mostly what I want is to allowed to live out my life modestly in peace, in at least a semi-sane, peaceful, civilized world without the constant agitation from the psychopaths (but I don’t expect it and it’s not getting any better). The best I’ve come up with is having a few cats, who also seem to be somewhat anarcho-socialist and mostly mind their own business, live and let live. One thing I am not, is organized.

    If all people minded their own business more and stopped attacking others, trying to tell them how live, only cooperating voluntarily as a general principal, the world would be a better place. But that leaves out liberals, conservatives, and many others who tend to be arrogant (especially Americans, and many in ‘the West’ who are imperialist, too ambitious and egotistic, and greedy).

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    • Replies: @peterAUS

    Organized group? Who?
     
    "Globalists."

    I have known only one other person who thinks anything at all like me, and he is far away and I haven’t seen him years. I’ve heard or read a few people, such as on the internet, who might think something like me in some areas, but I don’t know for sure, and I have no connection with them — or any with organization.
     
    Two options then.
    You are ..what's the correct, sensitive word...lying?
    You are sincere which hints at belonging to another group related to "globalists": useful idiots (harsh version); naive souls (sensitive version).

    Mostly what I want is to allowed to live out my life modestly in peace, in at least a semi-sane, peaceful, civilized world without the constant agitation from the psychopaths (but I don’t expect it and it’s not getting any better).
     
    Sounds great.
    We just have to define that "modestly in peace", "semi-sane" even more, definitely "peaceful" and the most important probably "civilized". "Constant agitation" belongs there too.
    Let me guess: open borders is "peaceful", "semi-sane" and makes the life "civilized"? Those who push that into our faces aren't"constantly agitating?
    Just curious. Sort of.

    If all people minded their own business more and stopped attacking others, trying to tell them how live, only cooperating voluntarily as a general principal, the world would be a better place.

     

    Yup.
    All people. ALL.
    That means that "undocumented migrants" should first mind their own business in their places and then apply, properly, for documents, and, if pass all the checks and balances, are allowed to be guests, pass more checks and balances etc....and go from there?
    "Globalists" shouldn't constantly tell the locals how to live.
    The immigrants should cooperate, Islamists in particular, when living in local communities. Laws, customs etc? You know, the concept of invited guest vs concept of invading army?

    But that leaves out liberals, conservatives, and many others who tend to be arrogant (especially Americans, and many in ‘the West’ who are imperialist, too ambitious and egotistic, and greedy).
     
    True.
    Let me guess: those living in Third, Fourth and whatever the fuck the number is, World, aren't imperialistic, ambitious, egotistic and greedy?
    Sounds.....interesting.
    They....superhumans?

    See what your (group) problem is: you can't/won't see the full picture.

    For some..peculiar.....reason , that group sees faults within, granted, but they can't/won't see the faults with others.
    Correction: some of those, on the top, know exactly what and why they do that.
    Majority, useful idiots, don't.
    They'll see it, of course, just a bit too late. Crying time then.

    Those "noble" non-Westerners/non-Americans are also human, mate. Also full of shit.
    And, some would say even more than your Westerners/Americans.
    Much more.
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  129. @nickels
    Native Americas are neither native nor American. They are immigrants from Asia, who genocided the first Americans, the Soultreans of Europe.
    The Indian heathens were savages who had too much land for decency. If they had played nice they could have shared the bounty, but the godless savages started a war they couldn't win.

    *revisionism is a bitch

    Speaking of revisionism…
    The soultrean hypothesis is a rather speculative fringe theory, and 20,000 years is well before my time, so I can’t say much about it.

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  130. Saxon says:
    @Blue Pilgrim
    Total number of immigrants in US runs about 13 1/2 % -- undocumented (illegal) immigrants is only about 11 million.
    European stock was never native, of course, but immigrated from Europe. The genocide was against the real natives -- often called 'Indians', and include those who lived south of the current US borders. Everyone else here are immigrants or descended from immigrants.

    I'll pass on trying to figure level of sanity with this issue (or even talking about racism), since the facts are easy enough to find.

    The US was around a 90% European ancestry nation a little over 50 years ago. By 90% European, I mean around 90% of the people were of fully European ancestry. The number of “current generation immigrants” is irrelevant–what really matters is the remaining percentage of those founding stock Europeans who are either English or like the English and were let in by the immigration acts present from 1970 to 1965. The people who came after are not Americans as per the founding fathers and any sane definition of nationhood since they have no ancestral connection to the founding stock peoples of America whatsoever.

    This is very important because we know exactly what will happen once the European-derived population has been politically dispossessed and put under the boot of other groups. We have powerful examples within living memory; Rhodesia and now South Africa. We can already see what’s planned with the calls for violence against whites, the demand for increased affirmative action style handouts at white’s expense and so on.

    And no, there was no America before the Europeans came. Where is America the country or anything resembling anything other than a bunch of hunter-gather savages running about a wilderness before the Europeans came? There wasn’t anything else. It’s obvious who built the country.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Blue Pilgrim
    That's just gross ignorance and racism, and it's not worth my time to even begin to try to educate you. If you had any interest in that you would already have gotten some facts.
    , @anon
    I agree with you. Wait .DoI agree with a white trash moron? No . not at all.

    People have come here legally They will stay here legally. You have problem with that? Get out of this country .
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  131. @Saxon
    The US was around a 90% European ancestry nation a little over 50 years ago. By 90% European, I mean around 90% of the people were of fully European ancestry. The number of "current generation immigrants" is irrelevant--what really matters is the remaining percentage of those founding stock Europeans who are either English or like the English and were let in by the immigration acts present from 1970 to 1965. The people who came after are not Americans as per the founding fathers and any sane definition of nationhood since they have no ancestral connection to the founding stock peoples of America whatsoever.

    This is very important because we know exactly what will happen once the European-derived population has been politically dispossessed and put under the boot of other groups. We have powerful examples within living memory; Rhodesia and now South Africa. We can already see what's planned with the calls for violence against whites, the demand for increased affirmative action style handouts at white's expense and so on.

    And no, there was no America before the Europeans came. Where is America the country or anything resembling anything other than a bunch of hunter-gather savages running about a wilderness before the Europeans came? There wasn't anything else. It's obvious who built the country.

    That’s just gross ignorance and racism, and it’s not worth my time to even begin to try to educate you. If you had any interest in that you would already have gotten some facts.

    Read More
    • Troll: Saxon
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    Interesting. A bit.

    Is this

    That’s just gross ignorance and racism, and it’s not worth my time to even begin to try to educate you. If you had any interest in that you would already have gotten some facts.
     
    your answer to this:

    This is very important because we know exactly what will happen once the European-derived population has been politically dispossessed and put under the boot of other groups. We have powerful examples within living memory; Rhodesia and now South Africa. We can already see what’s planned with the calls for violence against whites, the demand for increased affirmative action style handouts at white’s expense and so on.
     
    Simple "yes" or "no" will be more than enough.
    I'd go with 80 % "yes" and 20 % "no".
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  132. peterAUS says:
    @Blue Pilgrim
    Organized group? Who? I have known only one other person who thinks anything at all like me, and he is far away and I haven't seen him years. I've heard or read a few people, such as on the internet, who might think something like me in some areas, but I don't know for sure, and I have no connection with them -- or any with organization.
    Mostly what I want is to allowed to live out my life modestly in peace, in at least a semi-sane, peaceful, civilized world without the constant agitation from the psychopaths (but I don't expect it and it's not getting any better). The best I've come up with is having a few cats, who also seem to be somewhat anarcho-socialist and mostly mind their own business, live and let live. One thing I am not, is organized.

    If all people minded their own business more and stopped attacking others, trying to tell them how live, only cooperating voluntarily as a general principal, the world would be a better place. But that leaves out liberals, conservatives, and many others who tend to be arrogant (especially Americans, and many in 'the West' who are imperialist, too ambitious and egotistic, and greedy).

    Organized group? Who?

    “Globalists.”

    I have known only one other person who thinks anything at all like me, and he is far away and I haven’t seen him years. I’ve heard or read a few people, such as on the internet, who might think something like me in some areas, but I don’t know for sure, and I have no connection with them — or any with organization.

    Two options then.
    You are ..what’s the correct, sensitive word…lying?
    You are sincere which hints at belonging to another group related to “globalists”: useful idiots (harsh version); naive souls (sensitive version).

    Mostly what I want is to allowed to live out my life modestly in peace, in at least a semi-sane, peaceful, civilized world without the constant agitation from the psychopaths (but I don’t expect it and it’s not getting any better).

    Sounds great.
    We just have to define that “modestly in peace”, “semi-sane” even more, definitely “peaceful” and the most important probably “civilized”. “Constant agitation” belongs there too.
    Let me guess: open borders is “peaceful”, “semi-sane” and makes the life “civilized”? Those who push that into our faces aren’t”constantly agitating?
    Just curious. Sort of.

    If all people minded their own business more and stopped attacking others, trying to tell them how live, only cooperating voluntarily as a general principal, the world would be a better place.

    Yup.
    All people. ALL.
    That means that “undocumented migrants” should first mind their own business in their places and then apply, properly, for documents, and, if pass all the checks and balances, are allowed to be guests, pass more checks and balances etc….and go from there?
    “Globalists” shouldn’t constantly tell the locals how to live.
    The immigrants should cooperate, Islamists in particular, when living in local communities. Laws, customs etc? You know, the concept of invited guest vs concept of invading army?

    But that leaves out liberals, conservatives, and many others who tend to be arrogant (especially Americans, and many in ‘the West’ who are imperialist, too ambitious and egotistic, and greedy).

    True.
    Let me guess: those living in Third, Fourth and whatever the fuck the number is, World, aren’t imperialistic, ambitious, egotistic and greedy?
    Sounds…..interesting.
    They….superhumans?

    See what your (group) problem is: you can’t/won’t see the full picture.

    For some..peculiar…..reason , that group sees faults within, granted, but they can’t/won’t see the faults with others.
    Correction: some of those, on the top, know exactly what and why they do that.
    Majority, useful idiots, don’t.
    They’ll see it, of course, just a bit too late. Crying time then.

    Those “noble” non-Westerners/non-Americans are also human, mate. Also full of shit.
    And, some would say even more than your Westerners/Americans.
    Much more.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Blue Pilgrim
    I'm too tired right now to get into all this properly (maybe expand or clarify tomorrow), but you don't apparently understand my thinking (I'm not surprised). I am not a 'globalist', but rather more a sovereignist, while also supporting 'humanism' in that we are one species. If you will note, anarcho-socialism may also seem to be self contradictory. Neither am I naive or an idiot of any sort.

    Open borders is good up to a point, and immigration is helpful (the US has been basically built on that -- the old US before it went completely crazy -- but that doesn't mean lawless immigration but rather open policies ('give me your tired, your poor, etc.). As I said previously, more or less, most of the problem with immigration is that it is blowback from imperialism and colonialism. It's like if one destroys the woods then all the raccoons, skunks, hornets, and other things that live there become pests in human inhabited areas as they move from where they used to live en mass.

    Don't get hung up terms. Currently 'globalism' has gone off the rails and is driven by the liberals and capitalists who want to take over and rule the world, but this is not 'universalism' with equality (as a principle) and self determination (sovereignty) for all people and nations. In any of these things there needs to be a balance, and fanatic ideology can creep into anything.


    Of course there is 'evil' all over the world, but it is now concentrated in powerful ways in the western empire, and also increases 'evil' everywhere else which is subjected to it (as the US overthrows democratic governments, destroys functioning cultures, and installs puppet dictators, for instance). Some of the European nations which were empires want to be again, while others, such as China and Russia (which was never world empires), passed that stage of development and want to have normal relations with the rest of the world. Keep in mind that much of expansion or aggression from China and especially revolutionary Soviet Union was reaction to being invaded or attacked by empires or powerful nations. The Soviets were immediately attacked by the west when it formed, which lent power to the Bolsheviks who became convinced that only with control in the world geopolitics could they be left to develop.

    Despite a need for sovereignty, countries can and do go astray and violate principles of human nature and society (leading to societies which do not work well, if at all), and we find tyranny and oppression even within a country which is not being attacked or interfered with externally, and often enough those countries fall into civil war or collapse -- but that does not mean progress can be imposed from outside -- and how often has that ever happened for altruistic reasons in any case? People need self determination to find their own solutions in their own way, through their own cultures, although they can look to other places for knowledge or good examples. I can refer you back to cybernetics and what constitutes a functional, viable system, and well as other sources, such as Marx, Hegal, et al about internal inconsistencies and dialecticals, among many other sources throughout the world at various times (these are not new problems).

    It's looking like now that only if the US/empire is brought down will anyone else in the world be safe and be able to sovereign. It's similar to how the imperial policies of France, Spain, Germany, etc., had to brought down before the colonies were able to be somewhat independent (an ongoing process). This is a great danger when we don't have technological or economic parity among nations, with lack of just and enforceable international law. A difficulty now is the world is smaller, with little diversity or independent areas, so when the western empire messes up it's quite hard to escape the mess.
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  133. peterAUS says:
    @Blue Pilgrim
    That's just gross ignorance and racism, and it's not worth my time to even begin to try to educate you. If you had any interest in that you would already have gotten some facts.

    Interesting. A bit.

    Is this

    That’s just gross ignorance and racism, and it’s not worth my time to even begin to try to educate you. If you had any interest in that you would already have gotten some facts.

    your answer to this:

    This is very important because we know exactly what will happen once the European-derived population has been politically dispossessed and put under the boot of other groups. We have powerful examples within living memory; Rhodesia and now South Africa. We can already see what’s planned with the calls for violence against whites, the demand for increased affirmative action style handouts at white’s expense and so on.

    Simple “yes” or “no” will be more than enough.
    I’d go with 80 % “yes” and 20 % “no”.

    Read More
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  134. @peterAUS

    Organized group? Who?
     
    "Globalists."

    I have known only one other person who thinks anything at all like me, and he is far away and I haven’t seen him years. I’ve heard or read a few people, such as on the internet, who might think something like me in some areas, but I don’t know for sure, and I have no connection with them — or any with organization.
     
    Two options then.
    You are ..what's the correct, sensitive word...lying?
    You are sincere which hints at belonging to another group related to "globalists": useful idiots (harsh version); naive souls (sensitive version).

    Mostly what I want is to allowed to live out my life modestly in peace, in at least a semi-sane, peaceful, civilized world without the constant agitation from the psychopaths (but I don’t expect it and it’s not getting any better).
     
    Sounds great.
    We just have to define that "modestly in peace", "semi-sane" even more, definitely "peaceful" and the most important probably "civilized". "Constant agitation" belongs there too.
    Let me guess: open borders is "peaceful", "semi-sane" and makes the life "civilized"? Those who push that into our faces aren't"constantly agitating?
    Just curious. Sort of.

    If all people minded their own business more and stopped attacking others, trying to tell them how live, only cooperating voluntarily as a general principal, the world would be a better place.

     

    Yup.
    All people. ALL.
    That means that "undocumented migrants" should first mind their own business in their places and then apply, properly, for documents, and, if pass all the checks and balances, are allowed to be guests, pass more checks and balances etc....and go from there?
    "Globalists" shouldn't constantly tell the locals how to live.
    The immigrants should cooperate, Islamists in particular, when living in local communities. Laws, customs etc? You know, the concept of invited guest vs concept of invading army?

    But that leaves out liberals, conservatives, and many others who tend to be arrogant (especially Americans, and many in ‘the West’ who are imperialist, too ambitious and egotistic, and greedy).
     
    True.
    Let me guess: those living in Third, Fourth and whatever the fuck the number is, World, aren't imperialistic, ambitious, egotistic and greedy?
    Sounds.....interesting.
    They....superhumans?

    See what your (group) problem is: you can't/won't see the full picture.

    For some..peculiar.....reason , that group sees faults within, granted, but they can't/won't see the faults with others.
    Correction: some of those, on the top, know exactly what and why they do that.
    Majority, useful idiots, don't.
    They'll see it, of course, just a bit too late. Crying time then.

    Those "noble" non-Westerners/non-Americans are also human, mate. Also full of shit.
    And, some would say even more than your Westerners/Americans.
    Much more.

    I’m too tired right now to get into all this properly (maybe expand or clarify tomorrow), but you don’t apparently understand my thinking (I’m not surprised). I am not a ‘globalist’, but rather more a sovereignist, while also supporting ‘humanism’ in that we are one species. If you will note, anarcho-socialism may also seem to be self contradictory. Neither am I naive or an idiot of any sort.

    Open borders is good up to a point, and immigration is helpful (the US has been basically built on that — the old US before it went completely crazy — but that doesn’t mean lawless immigration but rather open policies (‘give me your tired, your poor, etc.). As I said previously, more or less, most of the problem with immigration is that it is blowback from imperialism and colonialism. It’s like if one destroys the woods then all the raccoons, skunks, hornets, and other things that live there become pests in human inhabited areas as they move from where they used to live en mass.

    Don’t get hung up terms. Currently ‘globalism’ has gone off the rails and is driven by the liberals and capitalists who want to take over and rule the world, but this is not ‘universalism’ with equality (as a principle) and self determination (sovereignty) for all people and nations. In any of these things there needs to be a balance, and fanatic ideology can creep into anything.

    Of course there is ‘evil’ all over the world, but it is now concentrated in powerful ways in the western empire, and also increases ‘evil’ everywhere else which is subjected to it (as the US overthrows democratic governments, destroys functioning cultures, and installs puppet dictators, for instance). Some of the European nations which were empires want to be again, while others, such as China and Russia (which was never world empires), passed that stage of development and want to have normal relations with the rest of the world. Keep in mind that much of expansion or aggression from China and especially revolutionary Soviet Union was reaction to being invaded or attacked by empires or powerful nations. The Soviets were immediately attacked by the west when it formed, which lent power to the Bolsheviks who became convinced that only with control in the world geopolitics could they be left to develop.

    Despite a need for sovereignty, countries can and do go astray and violate principles of human nature and society (leading to societies which do not work well, if at all), and we find tyranny and oppression even within a country which is not being attacked or interfered with externally, and often enough those countries fall into civil war or collapse — but that does not mean progress can be imposed from outside — and how often has that ever happened for altruistic reasons in any case? People need self determination to find their own solutions in their own way, through their own cultures, although they can look to other places for knowledge or good examples. I can refer you back to cybernetics and what constitutes a functional, viable system, and well as other sources, such as Marx, Hegal, et al about internal inconsistencies and dialecticals, among many other sources throughout the world at various times (these are not new problems).

    It’s looking like now that only if the US/empire is brought down will anyone else in the world be safe and be able to sovereign. It’s similar to how the imperial policies of France, Spain, Germany, etc., had to brought down before the colonies were able to be somewhat independent (an ongoing process). This is a great danger when we don’t have technological or economic parity among nations, with lack of just and enforceable international law. A difficulty now is the world is smaller, with little diversity or independent areas, so when the western empire messes up it’s quite hard to escape the mess.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Saxon
    Open borders isn't good. How can you can reconcile open borders with self-determination. Where is the self-determination of say, ENGLISH people in England when they are a dispossessed minority ruled over by Islamic or negro overlords who may say something straight out of Andalusian Spain such as "give me a blood tribute of your women or we will mass kill you."

    You really have no coherent arguments. These boilerplate talking points about western imperialism don't cut the mustard. There was no "blowback" of mass immigration to the former capital of the Ottoman empire. It's just an excuse used to legitimate the colonization of our countries by foreign elements who've been weaponized as a tool of ethnic cleansing employed against us.

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  135. peterAUS says:

    I am not a ‘globalist’, but rather more a sovereignist, while also supporting ‘humanism’ in that we are one species.

    O.K.

    …that doesn’t mean lawless immigration but rather open policies (‘give me your tired, your poor, etc.).

    O.K.

    In any of these things there needs to be a balance, and fanatic ideology can creep into anything.

    True.

    China and Russia (which was never world empires), passed that stage of development and want to have normal relations with the rest of the world.

    I see.

    It’s looking like now that only if the US/empire is brought down will anyone else in the world be safe and be able to sovereign.

    I see.

    I guess I got your fundamental position, in broad strokes.

    71 you said? Golden years.
    Enjoy them.

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  136. @Quartermaster

    "True, there was this latest idiocy by the Dutch who now are saying that it was a “Russian” unit which shot down MH-17. I don’t know why they would bother coming up with this latest nonsense right now, this might be a desperate hope by some hardcore NATO Cold Warriors, but in the current political climate this is going largely unnoticed."
     
    The only thing idiotic is that you still think anyone with two brain cells to run together is going to believe the lie that Russian troops did not shoot down MH-17. Keep whistling past the graveyard.

    And remember those evil Spanish who blew up the Maine in Havana, and let us never forget 9/11. They hate our freedoms.

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  137. @Blue Pilgrim
    "It is very simple."
    Except for this stuff:
    http://www.cybsoc.org/
    The Cybernetics Society holds scientific meetings, conferences, and social events, and engages in other activities to encourage public understanding of science and to extend and disseminate knowledge of cybernetics and its associated disciplines. The Society aims to support the Continuing Professional Development of its members. The Cybernetics Society is a member society of the International Federation for Systems Research and is affiliated to the World Organisation of Systems and Cybernetics.

    The site includes links to various conferences and resources around the world, as well as information.

    So do Esperantists.

    Read More
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  138. @renfro
    This is the ultimate stupidity and a threat to national security. I am sure those who have seen thru Trump will get the full import of this and what is behind it. Selling off strategic assets and emergency reserves is something only a country headed toward going belly up would do. Just like the USSR did.

    U.S. mandates biggest non-emergency strategic oil sell-off

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/energy/2018/02/13/us-mandates-biggest-non-emergency-strategic-oil-sell-off/332885002/

    “This is nothing short of liquidation of a safety net.”

    President Donald Trump unveiled a $4.4 trillion budget for next year that heralds an era of $1 trillion-plus federal deficits and — unlike the plan he released last year — never comes close to promising a balanced ledger even after 10 years Time
    The budget deal that the U.S. Congress passed and President Donald Trump signed into law last Friday calls for selling 100 million barrels of the Strategic Petroleum Reserve (SPR) by 2027 to help fund the government.
    The sale of 100 million barrels of crude oil in the next decade would represent the largest non-emergency sell-off of strategic oil reserves and would equate to some 15% of the current stockpiles in the SPR.
    The mandate for the SPR sale has drawn criticism because, some experts say, it would blunt the purpose of the strategic reserve to mitigate major global oil supply disruptions or price shocks. Other critics have said that tapping the emergency oil reserve for non-energy needs of the government is short-sighted and that the SPR should not be used as a “government ATM.”
    The Bipartisan Budget Act of 2018 mandates the Secretary of Energy to draw down and sell from the SPR a total of 30 million barrels of crude oil between fiscal years 2022 and 2025; another 35 million barrels during fiscal year 2026; and an additional 35 million barrels in fiscal year 2027.

    In addition, under a budget deal from 2015, the Secretary of Energy is authorized to draw down up to $350 million worth of crude oil from the SPR in the 2018 fiscal year to use for modernization of the reserve.

    The budget deal also reduces the minimum required level in the reserve under which no drawdowns can be made, to 350 million barrels from 450 million barrels.

    According to the Congressional Budget Office, the sale of the 100 million barrels from the SPR would generate $6.36 billion between 2018 and 2027.
    As of February 2, 2018, the SPR held a total of 665.1 million barrels of crude oil, while the current storage capacity is 713.5 million barrels, according to the Department of Energy. The average price paid for oil in the Reserve is $29.70 per barrel.
    After the sale authorized last week will be completed by 2027, the SPR would hold 406 million barrels of oil, equal to around 56% of its capacity, according to DoE estimates quoted by Platts.
    Kevin Book, managing director at ClearView Energy Partners, told Platts that the 100-million-barrel sale was “a resounding declaration of lawmakers’ new perspective on energy security.”
    Book told Bloomberg that “This is nothing short of liquidation of a safety net.”
    Current and past energy officials also criticized the proposal for the largest non-emergency strategic oil sale in U.S. history.
    According to the Washington Post, the White House reportedly has unveiled plans to cut off the station’s funding by 2024.
    Energy Undersecretary Mark Menezes told Bloomberg in an interview that the SPR was not designed to serve as “a government ATM.”
    “My own view is that SPR was put in place as an energy security mechanism to ensure that we had supply,” Menezes noted.
    Bob McNally, president of consultancy Rapidan Energy Group and a former senior energy official at the White House under President George W. Bush, told Bloomberg that “Selling the SPR to cover non-energy budget expenses is deeply short-sighted and unwise.”
    “In 1996 and 1997 we sold SPR barrels to pay for unrelated budget expenses and I was in the White House when we put those barrels back at higher prices starting about five years later, after 9/11,” McNally said.
    “Geopolitical risk is alive and well in the oil market, and the SPR is America’s only formal short-term line of defense against oil supply disruptions and price spikes,” Robbie Diamond, president of Securing America’s Future Energy, told Bloomberg.
    While the proposed sale of 100 million barrels of the SPR may be a bet on America’s energy independence and security in the next decade, it is also raising concern that it could diminish the U.S. ability to respond to sudden major outages of oil supply as geopolitical woes are back on the oil market.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-08/u-s-oil-reserve-would-fall-nearly-in-half-under-budget-deal

    Isn’t selling off the strategic oil reserve like burning the ships so that there can be no retreat, no going back and no choice but to go forward?

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    • Replies: @renfro

    Isn’t selling off the strategic oil reserve like burning the ships so that there can be no retreat, no going back and no choice but to go forward?
     
    Or like being dead in the water.
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  139. @byrresheim

    … but, nonetheless, siding with jew Anglo’s in the war created the very enemy that Russia is being destroyed by today, the ZangloHell empire.
     
    That decision also created the enemy that badly damaged the Soviet Union back then.

    The Saker should stop talking about what he calls Ukronazis. Something went terribly wrong in non-Russian eastern Europe. The fact that even the Poles, who suffered enormously, prefer Germans to Russians – we are not talking about love – should give a Russian patriot (as opposed to nationalist) pause.

    No need to emulate the German cult of guilt, but a clear view of recent Russian history would be in order.

    The Poles prefer the Germans to the Russians because the Poles are Catholic and the Russians are Orthodox. It is as simple as that. This is also the case of the Ukrainian Galicans, or what Saker calls UkroNazis because they make a hero out of Stepan Bandera. It was the Pope, not the Turks, who destroyed Constantinople ( Fourth Crusade in 1204.)

    Read More
    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    Let’s fix that: the people living in “Germany” are non-Christian and increasingly Muslim and nonEuropean, so the Poles should favor them over Russia because..... ?
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  140. @byrresheim

    … but, nonetheless, siding with jew Anglo’s in the war created the very enemy that Russia is being destroyed by today, the ZangloHell empire.
     
    That decision also created the enemy that badly damaged the Soviet Union back then.

    The Saker should stop talking about what he calls Ukronazis. Something went terribly wrong in non-Russian eastern Europe. The fact that even the Poles, who suffered enormously, prefer Germans to Russians – we are not talking about love – should give a Russian patriot (as opposed to nationalist) pause.

    No need to emulate the German cult of guilt, but a clear view of recent Russian history would be in order.

    There are others who would benefit even more by a clear view of their history.

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  141. @jilles dykstra
    " Is it not amazing, how a war ostensibly started to keep Poland free from the Germans ended with Poland under the Russian yoke? "
    Now english is not my first language, but I suppose it should be:
    Is should not amaze anybody, how a war apparently started to freePoland from the Germans, ended with Poland under the Russian yoke.
    The 1933 FDR Stalin deal, including what Samuel Oppenheimer negotiated in Moscow, in my perception, Ockham's Razor, was that Stalin would spill Russian blood to let the USA conquer the greater part of Germany, in return for E Europe.
    What the USA's contribution would be was weapons, ammunition and food, LendLease.
    Giving the USSR plane technology began already in 1933:
    Franz Kurowski, 'Balkenkreuz und Roter Stern, Der Luftkrieg über Russland 1941 - 1944', 1984, Friedberg

    20/20 Hindsight.

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  142. anon[228] • Disclaimer says:
    @Saxon
    The US was around a 90% European ancestry nation a little over 50 years ago. By 90% European, I mean around 90% of the people were of fully European ancestry. The number of "current generation immigrants" is irrelevant--what really matters is the remaining percentage of those founding stock Europeans who are either English or like the English and were let in by the immigration acts present from 1970 to 1965. The people who came after are not Americans as per the founding fathers and any sane definition of nationhood since they have no ancestral connection to the founding stock peoples of America whatsoever.

    This is very important because we know exactly what will happen once the European-derived population has been politically dispossessed and put under the boot of other groups. We have powerful examples within living memory; Rhodesia and now South Africa. We can already see what's planned with the calls for violence against whites, the demand for increased affirmative action style handouts at white's expense and so on.

    And no, there was no America before the Europeans came. Where is America the country or anything resembling anything other than a bunch of hunter-gather savages running about a wilderness before the Europeans came? There wasn't anything else. It's obvious who built the country.

    I agree with you. Wait .DoI agree with a white trash moron? No . not at all.

    People have come here legally They will stay here legally. You have problem with that? Get out of this country .

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    • Replies: @Saxon
    >can't post using an actual poster name or offer up any argument other than emotional bleating about anyone who disagrees with you being "white trash morons."

    Great contribution.
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  143. Saxon says:
    @Blue Pilgrim
    I'm too tired right now to get into all this properly (maybe expand or clarify tomorrow), but you don't apparently understand my thinking (I'm not surprised). I am not a 'globalist', but rather more a sovereignist, while also supporting 'humanism' in that we are one species. If you will note, anarcho-socialism may also seem to be self contradictory. Neither am I naive or an idiot of any sort.

    Open borders is good up to a point, and immigration is helpful (the US has been basically built on that -- the old US before it went completely crazy -- but that doesn't mean lawless immigration but rather open policies ('give me your tired, your poor, etc.). As I said previously, more or less, most of the problem with immigration is that it is blowback from imperialism and colonialism. It's like if one destroys the woods then all the raccoons, skunks, hornets, and other things that live there become pests in human inhabited areas as they move from where they used to live en mass.

    Don't get hung up terms. Currently 'globalism' has gone off the rails and is driven by the liberals and capitalists who want to take over and rule the world, but this is not 'universalism' with equality (as a principle) and self determination (sovereignty) for all people and nations. In any of these things there needs to be a balance, and fanatic ideology can creep into anything.


    Of course there is 'evil' all over the world, but it is now concentrated in powerful ways in the western empire, and also increases 'evil' everywhere else which is subjected to it (as the US overthrows democratic governments, destroys functioning cultures, and installs puppet dictators, for instance). Some of the European nations which were empires want to be again, while others, such as China and Russia (which was never world empires), passed that stage of development and want to have normal relations with the rest of the world. Keep in mind that much of expansion or aggression from China and especially revolutionary Soviet Union was reaction to being invaded or attacked by empires or powerful nations. The Soviets were immediately attacked by the west when it formed, which lent power to the Bolsheviks who became convinced that only with control in the world geopolitics could they be left to develop.

    Despite a need for sovereignty, countries can and do go astray and violate principles of human nature and society (leading to societies which do not work well, if at all), and we find tyranny and oppression even within a country which is not being attacked or interfered with externally, and often enough those countries fall into civil war or collapse -- but that does not mean progress can be imposed from outside -- and how often has that ever happened for altruistic reasons in any case? People need self determination to find their own solutions in their own way, through their own cultures, although they can look to other places for knowledge or good examples. I can refer you back to cybernetics and what constitutes a functional, viable system, and well as other sources, such as Marx, Hegal, et al about internal inconsistencies and dialecticals, among many other sources throughout the world at various times (these are not new problems).

    It's looking like now that only if the US/empire is brought down will anyone else in the world be safe and be able to sovereign. It's similar to how the imperial policies of France, Spain, Germany, etc., had to brought down before the colonies were able to be somewhat independent (an ongoing process). This is a great danger when we don't have technological or economic parity among nations, with lack of just and enforceable international law. A difficulty now is the world is smaller, with little diversity or independent areas, so when the western empire messes up it's quite hard to escape the mess.

    Open borders isn’t good. How can you can reconcile open borders with self-determination. Where is the self-determination of say, ENGLISH people in England when they are a dispossessed minority ruled over by Islamic or negro overlords who may say something straight out of Andalusian Spain such as “give me a blood tribute of your women or we will mass kill you.”

    You really have no coherent arguments. These boilerplate talking points about western imperialism don’t cut the mustard. There was no “blowback” of mass immigration to the former capital of the Ottoman empire. It’s just an excuse used to legitimate the colonization of our countries by foreign elements who’ve been weaponized as a tool of ethnic cleansing employed against us.

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    • Agree: RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    Couldn't agree more.

    As for the "Blue Pilgrim" and his ilk, well, as long as posts are civil, no prob.
    One can get bits of useful info even from the total opposite. At least "know your enemy".
    Joke. Of sort.

    Besides, who knows?
    Maybe cybernetics, AI, whatever, could solve our problems.

    Some people have doubts, though:
    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/06/henry-kissinger-ai-could-mean-the-end-of-human-history/559124/
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  144. Saxon says:
    @anon
    I agree with you. Wait .DoI agree with a white trash moron? No . not at all.

    People have come here legally They will stay here legally. You have problem with that? Get out of this country .

    >can’t post using an actual poster name or offer up any argument other than emotional bleating about anyone who disagrees with you being “white trash morons.”

    Great contribution.

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    • Replies: @anon
    People have come here legally They will stay here legally. You have problem with that? Get out of this country-

    Will that work for you before you decide to buy that one way ticket out of US?
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  145. anon[228] • Disclaimer says:
    @Saxon
    >can't post using an actual poster name or offer up any argument other than emotional bleating about anyone who disagrees with you being "white trash morons."

    Great contribution.

    People have come here legally They will stay here legally. You have problem with that? Get out of this country-

    Will that work for you before you decide to buy that one way ticket out of US?

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    • Replies: @Saxon
    No one consented to these people coming in, in a so-called "democracy." Anyway you didn't answer the question of demography and how whites (who founded and built the country) will be treated by the new majority which were brought in undemocratically. Do tell.
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  146. peterAUS says:
    @Saxon
    Open borders isn't good. How can you can reconcile open borders with self-determination. Where is the self-determination of say, ENGLISH people in England when they are a dispossessed minority ruled over by Islamic or negro overlords who may say something straight out of Andalusian Spain such as "give me a blood tribute of your women or we will mass kill you."

    You really have no coherent arguments. These boilerplate talking points about western imperialism don't cut the mustard. There was no "blowback" of mass immigration to the former capital of the Ottoman empire. It's just an excuse used to legitimate the colonization of our countries by foreign elements who've been weaponized as a tool of ethnic cleansing employed against us.

    Couldn’t agree more.

    As for the “Blue Pilgrim” and his ilk, well, as long as posts are civil, no prob.
    One can get bits of useful info even from the total opposite. At least “know your enemy”.
    Joke. Of sort.

    Besides, who knows?
    Maybe cybernetics, AI, whatever, could solve our problems.

    Some people have doubts, though:

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/06/henry-kissinger-ai-could-mean-the-end-of-human-history/559124/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Saxon
    Another possibility is that it's just all people blowing smoke up their own asses thinking about technology that operates like fantasy magic and may not ever exist because it's either not possible, or that they may not have enough time and excess energy to even complete--if it's possible--before a return to savagery due to demography. Used to be people predicting flying cars by the year 2000. We're not there. How much more complex is this stuff than an idea of a flying transport like a car?
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  147. Che Guava says:
    @edNels
    You bring many interesting separate issues in this comment, for one, what did you find out about frogs' vs cats' cortices? My untutored idea would be that really basic wiring and so on isn't too different from the fish on down the line to mammals, the functions work or not, means they don't eat.

    But as to the nervous system: […

    was that, while the nervous system as a whole is multi-tasking, it is only the autonomic. The conscious mind is demonstrably not.
     
    …]
    I take that to mean: that the NS multi-tasks automatically while the conscious is at the service of the Will, when we are on our game… able to concentrate!


    But the senses still have to be reliable whether one is a frog or a… high IQ idiot (hha).

    Well what they're doing is retro engineering organisms into machines and AI, (it's about as evil an undertaking as can ever be, just waiting for a virus that can also be thunk up).

    Thanks too for the Alan Sokal ''crime'' of making a mockery of phony science.

    Sokal’s intentional nonsense and the many furious responses from social ‘science’ when they realised he’d fooled them into posting pure nonsense, very funny.
     
    But that is a lesson for any truth teller who endeavors to upstage the mandarins of academia, and their trains of the trained… socie…U tee… similar to the gibberish that is accepted all around embellished with ARCANE mathematics symbols and cryptic notations, that are learned… after the gauntlet of many years of traversing the ''Weedouts'' and coming back for more, but then it's too late maybe, you have become the genius idiot, Ole Jonathan had some good ''notations'' and anachronisms or anagrams… ''overeducated low IQ idiots: ie: OLIQI's and on and on

    [

    many furious responses from social ‘science’many
     
    ]
    It's even funnier when pompous, pretentious, aloof professorial types loose it and get mad, from the pricking of the balloon of theirs with the obvious.

    Another study that would be interesting would be the myriad of fakery in animal world, mocking everything to gain advantage, lying pretending to look like a predator etc., pretending to be highly intelligent with white coats and 25 cent words! (or dirty teeshirts walking in circles...).

    Bottom, assembly language, that must be because it has to result in constructing something, must have integrity at core. Basic arithmetic is enjoyable, then the Stanford guys came up with The New Math, that was a stumbler for some of us. A weed out experiment in the '60's. Things do add up, there is a reason for dumbing down a population, they kill horses too.

    Thanks for the kind reply.

    To give a simplistic response on one point, the visual systems in both frogs (especially the ones that have a taste for flying insects) and cats are specialised for detecting motion.

    In the case of frogs, it is perception of point-on-background motion.

    For cats, it is a visual field, but they are specialised to see motiom in the field, so are not very interested in the static, and their visual cortices turn motion into something like what we see as light or dark.

    Consider a kitten setting something in motion and then getting excited about chasing it. There is no notion of causality, it is just the way cats are. Some stupid people think’oh, that’s so cute’, but it is really because the visual cortex of a cat makes motion vectors into a visual sense, so amything that is in motion in the near field and not much bigger than them, may be prey.

    My writing in my old essay was much better and far more detailed (particularly on frogs and neuronal structure) but the core elements are above.

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    • Replies: @Herald
    My border collie amuses himself by taking a ball to the top of a slope and then letting it roll downhill. When the it has gathered some speed he sets off in pursuit and then takes the ball back to the top of the slope. He will repeat this cycle up to ten times before becoming bored.

    Unlike the kitten, you describe, the dog is doing something more than simply reacting instinctively to random movement. He knows full well that the ball is not prey and also it seems he has a good idea about the effects of gravity. I wonder if "the kitten" is also rather more aware of things than we might think.

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  148. NZLex says:
    @utu

    as to how to apply cybernetics to solving some of pressing issues in this world
     
    It is very simple. You draw a circle or a square and one arrow pointing to it and one arrow pointing away from it and then you draw a line connecting the two arrows to indicate a loop of the feedback and then you do a lot hand waving with one hand repeatedly pointing to the drawing you made and you keep tossing in the word cybernetics in every other sentence.

    Here’s some of that hand waving you mentioned…

    Couldn’t find any diagrams, but I’ve seen similar “feedback loop” shape-art before.

    Of course, I’m sure it’s all very clever and will greatly help us all be slaves to robots someday.

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  149. Herald says:
    @Che Guava
    Thanks for the kind reply.

    To give a simplistic response on one point, the visual systems in both frogs (especially the ones that have a taste for flying insects) and cats are specialised for detecting motion.

    In the case of frogs, it is perception of point-on-background motion.

    For cats, it is a visual field, but they are specialised to see motiom in the field, so are not very interested in the static, and their visual cortices turn motion into something like what we see as light or dark.

    Consider a kitten setting something in motion and then getting excited about chasing it. There is no notion of causality, it is just the way cats are. Some stupid people think'oh, that's so cute', but it is really because the visual cortex of a cat makes motion vectors into a visual sense, so amything that is in motion in the near field and not much bigger than them, may be prey.

    My writing in my old essay was much better and far more detailed (particularly on frogs and neuronal structure) but the core elements are above.

    My border collie amuses himself by taking a ball to the top of a slope and then letting it roll downhill. When the it has gathered some speed he sets off in pursuit and then takes the ball back to the top of the slope. He will repeat this cycle up to ten times before becoming bored.

    Unlike the kitten, you describe, the dog is doing something more than simply reacting instinctively to random movement. He knows full well that the ball is not prey and also it seems he has a good idea about the effects of gravity. I wonder if “the kitten” is also rather more aware of things than we might think.

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    • Replies: @Che Guava
    I replied to you, post 154 on this thread, IIRC, not that it is of great interest, but a little.

    Using a browser that is losing the connections almost all of the time. It has improved, posting from it was not working at all, but now does, except it is always to lose the connection on the site.
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  150. @anonymous
    Pagan polytheists -non-Muslims if it is not clear enough- are dead men walking anyway, if only you knew what awaits your spiritually bereft souls.

    If only YOU actually “knew” what awaits them, too.

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  151. @ploni almoni
    The Poles prefer the Germans to the Russians because the Poles are Catholic and the Russians are Orthodox. It is as simple as that. This is also the case of the Ukrainian Galicans, or what Saker calls UkroNazis because they make a hero out of Stepan Bandera. It was the Pope, not the Turks, who destroyed Constantinople ( Fourth Crusade in 1204.)

    Let’s fix that: the people living in “Germany” are non-Christian and increasingly Muslim and nonEuropean, so the Poles should favor them over Russia because….. ?

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  152. Lea says: • Website
    @Robert Magill

    If you want the Russian economy integrated into the western markets and financial sphere, if you believe that the correct economic path of development for Russia is western-style liberal capitalism,if you believe that the Zionist lobby in Russia does not exist or is not an issue, then you truly have cause to rejoice and, indeed, many have (including my friend Alexander Mercouris at The Duran)
     
    Or if, unlike the Saker, you see Putin embracing Xi's model of business first; quietly but strongly. The Belt and Road does in fact connect through Russia and with Russia but Western eyes cannot focus clearly on China somehow. It's a big country; must be the eastern sun in our eyes.  

    https://robertmagill.wordpress.com/2018/05/16/is-chairman-xi-modeling-kubilai-khan/

    I Agree. The Saker has forgotten the elephant in the room, China and its (gold) Yellow Brick Road, the Belt and Road Initiative.

    There is a Chinese taoist tradition which is called Wu Wei, meaning non-action. It posits that, without need for any action other than being wise, you influence everyone around. Given China’s astonishing level of success and the scope of its plans for the peaceful development of the whole Eurasia-Africa mega-continent (plus friends in South America), one would be hard-put to imagine why on dear Earth, bar being totally dumb (which they are not), the Russians would turn a blind eye to China’s recipes for success. All the more as they are poised to benefit economically from the BRI, big time, along with all their comrades Iraq-Iran-Syria-Turkey (if Erdogan behaves)…

    As far as I am concerned, it is even beyond me why my country, France, doesn’t follow in China’s footsteps. IT WORKS, for heaven’s sake! But then, we are ruled by mediocre leaders hanging on to their troughs for their lives, which is not an issue in Russia (At least for the brains, I don’t know about the troughs).

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  153. renfro says:
    @ploni almoni
    Isn't selling off the strategic oil reserve like burning the ships so that there can be no retreat, no going back and no choice but to go forward?

    Isn’t selling off the strategic oil reserve like burning the ships so that there can be no retreat, no going back and no choice but to go forward?

    Or like being dead in the water.

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  154. Che Guava says:

    I think that you are correct about your dog, dogs have some, sometimes a very good, idea of what they are doing, with the exception of certain toy breeds and those bred to be psycho (bull terriers &c.).

    ‘Domestic’ cats have evolved certain behaviours of mimicry, since I did the (deep university library) research, went for a walk on a road throngh a forest on a night when there was no moon, but no artificial lights, and no cars, so able to walk by human night vision.

    Spooky.

    I heard sounds like some that human babies make at at least two or three points. Was thinking ‘what is that?’. The next day, worked out that it must have been feral or abandoned ‘domestic’ cats.

    Last decade, found that there is some serious research on such mimicry and inveigling behaviour by cats. It goes much beyond that form of vocalisation.

    Doubt that that kind of playimg with nothing by kittens is anything more than training in case they want to toy with and kill a small bird later on.

    I am not saying that cats *only* have motion vision at all, just that it is interesting that they do, and it seems to be emphasised in the pattern of kitten development, they are not much interested in anythlng else than that, except being fed, at that stage.

    Most cats now are too lazy to even chase mice, and back down to rats (I have seen that several times in central Tokyo). Their main positive points at the start of the association.

    Closing there.

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  155. Saxon says:
    @peterAUS
    Couldn't agree more.

    As for the "Blue Pilgrim" and his ilk, well, as long as posts are civil, no prob.
    One can get bits of useful info even from the total opposite. At least "know your enemy".
    Joke. Of sort.

    Besides, who knows?
    Maybe cybernetics, AI, whatever, could solve our problems.

    Some people have doubts, though:
    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/06/henry-kissinger-ai-could-mean-the-end-of-human-history/559124/

    Another possibility is that it’s just all people blowing smoke up their own asses thinking about technology that operates like fantasy magic and may not ever exist because it’s either not possible, or that they may not have enough time and excess energy to even complete–if it’s possible–before a return to savagery due to demography. Used to be people predicting flying cars by the year 2000. We’re not there. How much more complex is this stuff than an idea of a flying transport like a car?

    Read More
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  156. Saxon says:
    @anon
    People have come here legally They will stay here legally. You have problem with that? Get out of this country-

    Will that work for you before you decide to buy that one way ticket out of US?

    No one consented to these people coming in, in a so-called “democracy.” Anyway you didn’t answer the question of demography and how whites (who founded and built the country) will be treated by the new majority which were brought in undemocratically. Do tell.

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  157. Che Guava says:
    @Herald
    My border collie amuses himself by taking a ball to the top of a slope and then letting it roll downhill. When the it has gathered some speed he sets off in pursuit and then takes the ball back to the top of the slope. He will repeat this cycle up to ten times before becoming bored.

    Unlike the kitten, you describe, the dog is doing something more than simply reacting instinctively to random movement. He knows full well that the ball is not prey and also it seems he has a good idea about the effects of gravity. I wonder if "the kitten" is also rather more aware of things than we might think.

    I replied to you, post 154 on this thread, IIRC, not that it is of great interest, but a little.

    Using a browser that is losing the connections almost all of the time. It has improved, posting from it was not working at all, but now does, except it is always to lose the connection on the site.

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  158. Eagle Eye says:
    @nickels
    Yes, this jew loving legacy of victory day is interesting.
    To some extent the judeo part of Bolshevism was killed by the victory of Stalin over Trotsky, but, nonetheless, siding with jew Anglo's in the war created the very enemy that Russia is being destroyed by today, the ZangloHell empire.
    It is not unlike America's problem-we celebrate a war where we sided with the very force of jewry that is ripping our culture apart and spitting on our most sacred faith.
    Both countries have a generational cognitive dissonance related to the war. Patriotism requires celebrating it, yet survival requires realizing the whole thing was a dismal and shameful sham.
    I think only as the war generation passes can the revisionism come into the mainstream.
    Provided enough mass intelligence exists to do so, of which I am not hopeful, having sat through the many prayers for the state of Israhell while attended my Montana rural protestant church service with family this last week.

    NOTE: Poster “EagleEye” (no space) is an impostor with shaky English and a penchant for vulgarity.

    Eagle Eye expresses no views on the post.

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