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Drazha Mikhailovich: the Man Upon Which the Future Serbia Will be Rebuilt!
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One of the greatest Serbian heroes of all times: Chetnik General Draza Mihailovich (1943)

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This is a very special day for me, because the topics I will be covering are all very dear to my heart and to my entire family. Following the Bolshevik revolution my family and another 1.5 million Russians fled their beloved motherland at the end of the civil war. All our so-called European “allies” immediately betrayed us (what else is new?), organized an intervention and backed the russophobic Bolshevik regime (yes, helping both side in turn, like the Empire today in, say, the Kurdish areas of Iraq and Syria). All except one: the Serbs which, at the time, were triumphant (WWI) but also had to rebuild a war ravaged Serbia, with most of its infrastructure destroyed, and coping with the death of nearly 30% of its entire population.

They welcomed us with open arms and generous hearts, they recognized all the former Russian officials and officers in their pre-1917 capacity, and they gave refuge to the bishops, priests and faithful of the Russian Orthodox Church in Exile whose birthplace became the city of Sremski Karlovci in Serbia.

My family lived in Belgrade and my mother was born in the Topčidersko Brdo neighborhood of Belgrade. All her life she spoke a perfect Serbian, like a native; as for my Godmother, she was a pure Serb (and she also spoke Russian to perfection). I want to mention that to explain that the ties between my family and the Serbian nation were both strong and deep.

I strongly believe that all Russians owe a great debt of gratitude to the Serbian people, even those who don’t know about this (more about that later). And not just for how they accepted our refugees, but for many other instances of Russian-Serbian friendship in history.

The contrast between the Serbs and our so-called “Orthodox” or, even more so, Slavic brothers could not be greater. We even have a special word for that: the Serbs we call “братья” (meaning “brothers”) whereas the rest of them many of us simply call “братушки” which is hard to translate but I suppose “one-way-brothers” or even “pretend brothers” is adequate. We all know how many times our “one-way-brothers” have betrayed us, even if they owe the existence of their countries to Russia (I personally an ancestor who died while liberating Bulgaria from the Ottoman yoke!). In fact, they are still at it nowadays (not every single individual, of course, but taken as a nation, this is true beyond any doubt – just look how they allow their national territories to be used by NATO to try to threaten Russia) . Next time they have a problem with their neighbors, they can ask NATO (good luck with that!) – because we sure ain’t coming again. Ever!

But today, I want to touch on a very special kind of Serb, the much vilified, slandered and otherwise hated Serbian Chetniks of the Yugoslav army and their leader, the Serbian hero Draza Mihailovich (Дража Михаиловић).

I had the rare fortune of meeting quite a few Serbian officers in my life, from those who fought against NATO during the AngloZionist aggression against Bosnia, Serbia and its Kosovo province to the old Chetnik officers and soldiers who created the most effective and by far the biggest resistance movement to Hitler prior to the invasion of the USSR. I also met quite a few Russian, pre-1917 imperial officers and their families (mostly in Argentina) and I vividly remember how these old soldiers spoke with a heartfelt admiration and gratitude about Mihailovich himself and his men. So close were the Russians and Serbians in exile that they often inter-married (like my uncle and my Godmother).

My purpose here is not to write a bio of Mihailovich, or even to introduce him. For that purpose I will post a truly exceptionally well made film which is now freely available on YouTube (for how long? Download and make copies, folks!) and which pretty much explains it all, in fascinating details.

No, what I want to do today is much more modest. To share with you the reasons for my belief that any future Serbia worthy of being called Serbia can only be and will be founded on the memory of Draza Mihailovich and on the centuries of honored Serbian heroes that he epitomized.

I know that I have a lot of communist readers and friends, and I ask them for their patience and understanding. The truth is that those calling themselves Communists in 2019 are very different from the type of Communists which would be found in the Europe of 1900-1946. In some way this is very bad, since most modern so-called “communists” have never read Marx or Engels, never-mind Lenin or Hegel. But in other ways, this is very good, since modern communists do not consider patriotism as “bourgeois” or religion the “opium of the people”. Friends, a long time ago I wrote that the “Whites” and the “Reds” (using a Russian categories but which can, I think, be transposed to the Serbian reality) will never agree on the past, even if they could agree on the future. What comes next is about the past, so let’s simply agree to disagree and not let this difference in opinion affect us okay?

The resemblances between the fate of the Russian nation and the Serbs are many, as are the differences. But one thing which we sure have in common: the communists who took power over us did all they could to deprive us from our historical memory. Worse, they slandered our nations, our traditions, our cultures and our faiths for two very basic reasons:

  1. They absolutely hated us, both Russians and Serbs
  2. They had to justify not only their reforms (forced social engineering, really), but the terror they unleashed
ORDER IT NOW

By this mechanism Czar Nicholas II became a weak imbecile, his wife a mistress of Rasputin and an agent of the Germans, pre-1917 Russia a “prison of the people” (btw – (prewar Yugoslavia in communist propaganda was also called a “prison of peoples”, with the Serbs as jailers), Russian Orthodoxy “retrograde” and “ritualistic”, the Russian people “chauvinists” and the Russian ruling classes (old nobility, Petrine aristocracy, merchants, industrialists, clergy, philosophers, intelligentsia, etc.) all became “class enemies” of the people (in 1922 the Bolsheviks even managed to expel Russia’s leading intellectuals in the infamous “Philosopher’s ship“! These were the lucky ones, by the way, the others died in the Soviet GuLAG or were simply shot ). Furthermore, the role of the US, Germany and the UK in financing the subversion of Russia was totally obfuscated.

In Serbia a very similar thing happened, only later. You will see in the movie itself to what degree the true story of Draza Mihailovich and the Chetniks was corrupted and perverted in the (new) official doxa of the AngloZionist Empire.

I ask you to please watch this movie before reading on.

Personally, I am deeply moved by this film, especially by the old Chetnik shown at the end.

I had the fortune of meeting the “tail end” of the world this old Chetnik soldier knew.

His tears are my tears.

* * *

In 2015, the high court of Serbia officially rehabilitated General Dragoljub “Draza” Mihailovic, repudiating the farcical trial staged by the communist regime in 1946. “The court established that the controversial ruling was made in an illegitimate trial for political and ideological reasons, and, under the law on rehabilitation, the decision cannot be appealed”. –inserbia.info.

While this was an important first step in repudiating the communist falsification of history, the quisling government and educational system of Serbia, continues to be guided by old communists and the foreign successors of Vatican/Vienna school, who’ve spent centuries appropriating Serbian achievements and rewriting several millennia of Serbian/Slavic history.

* * *

I find personalities like Czar Nicholas II or Draza Mihailovich extremely important because they are what I call “polarizers”, that is personalities who have been both despised and hated as well as revered and loved. Why is that important? Because if you pick the right “polarizing personality” you can very quickly establish how much your interlocutor knows and what his real values are. There are many more such personalities, beginning even with Christ our Lord Himself, of course (I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law; Luke 12: 49-53). Of course, this is not about dividing families or creating strife, but about showing “your true face” and how much you are willing to sacrifice for your values. By the way, in my usage “polarizing personality” is value neutral. Thus Hitler would be a very good example of an evil polarizing personality.

In fact, Czar Nicholas II and Draza Mihailovich have many things in common, but I want to mention two: they both refused to leave their people even though it meant sure death, and their murderers were so afraid of their MORAL (not legal or, even less so, military) authority that they not only massacred them (in the case of Czar Nicholas with his entire family, children included) and concealed the place where their bodies were destroyed and dumped. Personally, I even see a degree of resemblance between the two men, especially in their eyes: they are both filled with a special sad kindness, a kind of Christ-like meek resignation. They both perfectly knew that they would not only be murdered, but smeared, vilified by many clueless generations. I can only hope that they also knew that the historical truth would one day be restored!

Why is that so important? Because you cannot rebuild a civilization on fuzzy, lukewarm and otherwise uninspiring models. I would even argue that any action needs to be predicated on a solid spiritual/ideological basis to be meaningful (you just don’t do meaningful things just to do them, our most important actions are often just means towards a higher goal). This is, by the way, a great weakness of the current AngloZionist empire: while it does inspire plenty of derision and hate, it probably stopped truly inspiring anybody decades ago – yet another sure sign of decay.

Of course, I am acutely aware that there are many Russians who don’t think highly of Czar Nicholas II or even still despise him for being the superficial, weak and dumb moron the Soviet propaganda machine (and the liberal-democratic Masonic propaganda machine before that!) painted him to be, just as there are no doubt Serbs who either dislike/despise Draza because of the Titoist propaganda. In most cases this is just simple ignorance. Once the freedom to investigate the past is truly restored (like it is in Russia today), the inevitable always happens: those who were orphans of their own history and culture gradually rediscover them and then they operate a radical ideological change (who would have predicted in the 1980s or even 1990s that a Russian defense minister would convert to Orthodoxy and publicly make the sign of the cross before a military parade or that a Russian contingent in Khmeimim would have not one, but two churches built on that base?).

Think of Russia and Serbia as “Petri dishes” in which the bacteria of historical memory have just began to grow and, rather than looking at the current number of “bacteria with a restored historical memory”, look at the nature of these bacteria and the nutrient rich-soup in which they are located.

Our countries are the Petri dish. We are the bacteria.

Bon appétit!

* * *

I vividly remember how the AngloZionist propaganda machine described the Serbian people in general, and especially the Chetniks, as genocidal murders hellbent on “ethnic cleansing” and “genocide” (Serbs, Croats and Bosnian-Muslims are from the same ethnicity; only their religions are different; “Bosniac” is a term popularized by the US State Department). Most of these lies have long been debunked by numerous authors, the truth is already out there but, just like with the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, the Kennedy assassination,GLADIO or 9/11, the truth is out there, but very few care.

The truth is that the western civilization has decayed to a state which could be described as “truth free”. A simpler way to put it that for most people (alas, most people are still brainwashed) facts simply do not matter. The truly dull ones will only seek “ideological comfort” while most of the rest simply don’t care as long as their current consumption rates can be maintained or, better, increased. The rest, for them, is basically irrelevant.

Inside Yugoslavia a similar process of “induced amnesia” and “historical reprogramming” took place during the Tito years and even after. Even modern Serbian politicians, plenty of which are corrupt and dependent on US or EU “grants”, continue to parrot the Titoist propaganda. But deep inside (some of) the Serbian people the memory of Draza is just as alive as the memory of Czar Nicholas II is alive in the memory of (some of) Russian people. This historical memory has not been restored to our nations, but there is already enough of this memory currently coming out from it’s clandestinity to worry our “liberals” and “democrats” and to absolutely outrage the western media.

This being said, I don’t believe for one second that Russia or Serbia will ever become a monarchy again (in spite of being a monarchist myself). In fact, I hope this never happens because if it does, it will be a pseudo-monarchy run by some parliament and with a useless parasite à la Queen Elizabeth II totally under the control of Masonic loges. A real Orthodox monarchy can only exist in a truly Orthodox country and with a truly free Orthodox Church, not in a country where the vast majority of Orthodox Christians are truly Orthodox only in name, in a “cultural” sense, and who see Orthodoxy as a national rather than as a spiritual phenomenon. In fact, I believe that we are already well into the “End Times” in which the Church of Christ will shrink down to the “small flock” mentioned in the Gospels and Apocalypse. These are times in which an Orthodox monarchy cannot exist since the τὸ κατέχον (“the [one] who restrains”) has been “taken out of the way” (2 Thes 2:6-7) because Nicholas II was this “katehon” and now the “mystery of iniquity doth already work” (there is also the famous prophecy about Moscow the Third Rome, a status which that city lost in 1917, which concludes with the words “and there shall be no fourth“).

But, assuming we don’t all die in a nuclear war courtesy of the Neocons, neither can the future Russia or Serbia be founded on the values, policies and actions of figures like Lenin or Tito (if only because their countries – the USSR and Yugoslavia – don’t exist anymore; besides, Lenin hated Russia as much as Tito hated Serbia).

A couple of years ago I wrote an essay entitled “Kosovo will be liberated” in which I suggested the following thought experiment:

Imagine for a few minutes that for some reason the Empire collapsed. No more NATO and probably no more EU. Or maybe just a little NATO and just a little EU left in spite of it all. But, more importantly, no Camp Bondsteel. What do you think would happen?

I gave my answer about what I believe would happen externally, about how the Serbian nation will inevitably be reunited and Kosovo liberated. Today, I am trying to imagine what would happen inside Serbia, before Kosovo can be liberated.

Internally, the conditio sine qua non for a rebirth of Serbia is the restoration of the historical truth and that means first and foremost to restore the truth about the cowardly slaughter of well over 1,500,000 Serbs by Croatians, Bosnian Muslims, Albanians, Bulgarians and Hungarians (yes, this was a real, full-scale genocide; the original Papist-Croatian (*not* German Nazi!!) plan was to convert 1/3rd of Serbs, expel another 1/3rd and murder the remaining 1/3rd) by an informal but no less toxic combination of *real* Nazi-collaborators (Croats and Bosnian-Muslims), the genocidal policies of the Papacy in the so-called “Independent State of Croatia”, the actions of the Communist Partisans, the typical “grand game” policies and betrayals of the British (who used the Serbs as cannon fodder against elite SS divisions), the active support of the Soviet Union and the total indifference of the US and the self-centered nations of western Europe.

While one WWII genocide is exploited and propagandized, the Genocide of the Serbian people is hideously kept hidden. Their executioners, to this day, celebrated by the empire and aided in their continued attempts to erase the memory of their victims. Dr. Gideon Greiff, Israel’s foremost expert on Auschwitz, whose recently published book “Jasenovac, the Auschwitz of the Balkans”, details the killing of over 800,000 Serbs, in the Jasenovac death camp. According to Dr. Greiff, Jasenovac, one of many Vatican sanctioned death camps, in the Nazi puppet state of Croatia, there were “57 different ways of killing the victims”. “I am sure that there weren’t as many in Auschwitz. It’s a world record. There has not been something of the kind in the history of the humankind,” he said, adding that there should be no doubt about the number of the (overall) victims, and recalling that an investigation by a joint Croatian-Serbian commission showed that this number was 1.4 million (all quotes from a television interview with Dr. Greiff on Serbian Television). Finally, to learn of the true horrors faced by the Serbian nation in this monstrous Papist genocide attempt of the Serbian nation, make sure to check out this webpage:

http://www.reformation.org/holocaus.html

It will give you all the details about what the author called “The most horrifying religious massacre of the 20th century“.

As for Dr Greiff’s book “Jasenovac – Auschwitz of the Balkans” is available on Amazon, but at a very steep price (I sure cannot afford and I wish it was available online somewhere).

This restoration of the truth will have to inevitably include Tito’s communists murder of tens of thousands Serbian intellectuals, Orthodox priests, Chetniks and their families, after the end of WWII.

ORDER IT NOW

Furthermore, all the countries, public entities and personalities which directed these crimes will have to be exposed. Not to stick them into a Nuremberg-like tribunal (not a bad idea, but it was poorly implemented; besides, for Russia and Serbia, most evil doers are not long dead anyway), but to stick their memory in a “historical tribunal” in which historians will be the defending and prosecuting lawyers and our people the jury (God, obviously, being the only true judge).

Simply put, I will use a metaphor of Alexander Solzhenitsyn here, the relationship of the Russian civilization to the Bolshevik state, and the relationship of the Serbian civilization with the Titoist state is the same one which can be found between a healthy body and a malignant tumor: yes, they definitely share a lot of common DNA (Russia, for example, has always been a collectivistic and “social” society), but they also have enough differences to make the latter a mortal threat to the former. Furthermore, just as with a malignant tumor, it is extremely difficult to fully eradicate just the tumor without affecting the healthy tissues. Solzhenitsyn added that in his opinion the Russian nation will need about two centuries to fully heal from the effects of Bolshevism.

So this is not about doing what the Communists did and trashing our past just from another point of view. There were great heroes and very good people who lived in our Communist past, and great feats were accomplished in numerous fields during these years. It is about restoring the historical truth, something which every honest person should support and even participate in. Otherwise our people will look like prisoners freed from a concentration camp but who continue to wear the prison clothes given to them by their (now former) tormentors.

Truth be told, since 2000 Russia has managed to accomplish a truly miraculous rebirth, especially in the light of the true war (even if this war is currently about 80% informational one, 15% economic and only 5% kinetic) of the AngloZionists against Russia. Serbia is in a much worse situation, in some ways almost as bad as the Russia of the 1990s. But I am confident that a “Serbian Putin” will appear, apparently from “nowhere”, and that the Serbian people will rally around him/her just like the Russians rallied around Putin.

Finally, when the time comes for the Serbian nation to rise up and liberate itself, I am confident that the recent examples of Russians fighting for Serbia in Bosnia and Serbs fighting for Russia in the Donbass will inspire not just volunteers, but whoever sits in the Kremlin.

Serbian volunteers in Novorussia and their Russian comrades in arms.
Serbian volunteers in Novorussia and their Russian comrades in arms.

To illustrate just how much the truth has been distorted, regarding the Serbs, whose honor and courage, have been documented, both by allies and enemies, throughout history, I strongly encourage you to read the last sermon of pastor Freidrich Griesendorf, published in the Eversburg (German) newspaper: “Last sermon of a German clergymen” (reposted and translated here)

I now leave you with the two videos mentioned in the main film.

First, the interview of US vets about their experience with the Chetniks:

and, finally, the Hollywood movie made about this war:

And, last but most definitely not least, there is now an extremely valuable website fully dedicated to the memory of Draza Mihailovich:

http://drazamovie.com/

In conclusion, I want to address all those who have a very different view of Draza, the Serbs or anything else. What I presented here is my personal, absolutely sincere, point of view. But, of course, I may be wrong (I often am!).

I not only have no problem with fact-based and logically-constructed criticisms, I sincerely INVITE THEM! However, I have to warn you that any attempts to simply spew a load the garden variety hatred towards Draza, the Serbs or anything else will be intercepted and sent to where it belongs: the trash bin of our servers and of history! We have already heard it all, courtesy of the legacy AngloZionist media, we don’t need that repeated here.

*******

ADDENDUM: since Draza, the Chetniks and the Serbs have now been described as monsters, I decided to add a number of quotes which not only show that in the past they were considered as heroes, but also show what some prominent historical figures had to say about them.

1. The Hero Whom You Gave to History Has Not His Like in Our Time

“Twenty years after the death of Draza Mihailovich he is undimmed in his glory as a defender of liberty against the Fascist terror, who defended it also against the Communist terror. He had no moment of weakness, nor of bitterness. I know no instance where he reproached those who were guilty of his betrayal.

Twenty years ago I knew he was innocent of all charges against him, and since then I have had many further proofs of his innocence. His abandonment was a crime, and like all crimes it brought no real profit to the criminals.

I loved your nation before the war, I have loved and honored it more and more as the years have gone by and I have seen that the hero whom you gave to history has not his like in our time.”

__ Dame Rebecca West ( to the Serbs July 8, 1966)

2. As I sit writing these lines in the early dawn before a motionless sea, Mihailovich is facing the firing squad. I am not concerned with what the first of the Maquisards is supposed to have done or not done; what worries me is that nobody bothers about him

__ George Bernanos, 1946

3. The British press ‘splashed’ the German reward for Tito, but only one paper mentioned (in small print) the reward for Mihailovich: and the charges of collaborating with the Germans continued.

__George Orwell, 1946

4. General Dragoljub Mihailovich distinguished himself in an outstanding manner as Commander-in-Chief of the Yugoslavian Army Forces and later as Minister of War by organizing and leading important resistance forces against the enemy which occupied Yugoslavia, from December 1941 to December 1944. Through the undaunted efforts of his troops, many United States airmen were rescued and returned safely to friendly control. General Mihailovich and his forces, although lacking adequate supplies, and fighting under extreme hardships, contributed materially to the Allied cause, and were instrumental in obtaining a final Allied victory.

— Harry S. Truman, March 29, 1948

5. The ultimate tragedy of Draza Mihailovic cannot erase the memory of his heroic and often lonely struggle against the twin tyrannies that afflicted his people, Nazism and Communism. He knew that totalitarianism, whatever name it might take, is the death of freedom. He thus became a symbol of resistance to all those across the world who have had to fight a similar heroic and lonely struggle against totalitarianism. Mihailovic belonged to Yugoslavia; his spirit now belongs to all those who are willing to fight for freedom.

— Ronald Reagan, September 8, 1979

6.“The unparalleled rescue of over 500 American Airmen from capture by the Enemy Occupation Forces in Yugoslavia during World War II by General Dragoljub Mihailovich and his Chetnik Freedom Fighters for which this “Legion of Merit” medal was awarded by President Harry S. Truman, also represents a token of deep personal appreciation and respect by all those rescued American Airmen and their descendants, who will be forever grateful.”

___ (NATIONAL COMMITTEE OF AMERICAN AIRMEN RESCUED BY GENERAL MihailovićH – 1985)

7. “General Draza Mihailovic was a patriot, a brave soldier and a gallant ally of the United States and every nation that went to war in the early forties to destroy the tyrannies that sought to enslave our world.Hundreds of American pilots owe their lives to General Mihailovic and his forces and the American people will never forget that debt.As long as there are patriots in any nation, the name of General Draza Mihailovic will be remembered and revered”

– President Richard Nixon (April 21, 1966).

8. WHY MIHAILOVICH MATTERS

As an American, I bow my head in shame whenever I think of the terribly mistaken policy which led the Allied leaders in World War II to abandon General Draza Mihailovich and throw their support instead to the communist cohorts of Marshal Josip Broz Tito. It was an unbelievable aberration of policy and of justice perpetrated by the Allies.

Mihailovich was the first insurgent in Europe. It was he who raised the flag of resistance to the Nazi occupier – and by his action he inspired the formation of resistance movements in all the subjugated countries.

He resisted the Nazis at the time when the Soviet Union and the communists were still collaborating with them – and his early resistance, by slowing down the Nazi timetable, was probably responsible for preventing the fall of Moscow.

The contributions of Mihailovich to the Allied cause were the subject of tributes by General Eisenhower, General De Gaulle, Field Marshal Lord Alexander, Admiral Harwood, Anthony Eden, President Truman, and, at later date of President Richard Nixon. For example, on August 16, 1942, three top ranking British officers, Admiral Harwood, General Auchinleck, and Air Marshal Tedder, sent the following joint wire to Mihailovich: “With admiration we are following your directed operations which are of inestimable value to the Allied cause.”

Today, no informed person takes seriously the communist charges that Mihailovich collaborated with the Germans, or the proceedings of the communist show trial in Belgrade which resulted in his execution. The communists made the nature of their injustice clear when they announced in advance of the trial, that Mihailovich would be executed after a ‘fair’ trial. And they also made it clear when they refused to take the evidence of the American officers who served with him or of the American airmen who were rescued by him.

Colonel Robert H. McDowell, chief of the last American mission to General Mihailovich, and perhaps the most experienced intelligence officer to serve with either side in Yugoslavia during World War II, took the time after the War to go through the German intelligence files on Yugoslavia. Not only did he find no evidence that Mihailovich collaborated with the Nazis, but he found numerous statements establishing that Hitler feared the Mihailovich movement far more than he feared the Tito movement.

The communists also feared Mihailovich more than they did any other man. And that is why, when they executed him, they disposed of his shattered body in a secret burial place, so that those who followed him and revered him would not be able to come at night to drop tears and flowers on his grave and tenderly offer a few words of prayer in gratitude to General Mihailovich for his heroism and sacrifice.

But despite all of the abuse and all the precautions of the communists, the truth about Mihailovich – now grown to the proportions of a legend – still persists among the Serbian people. Evidence of this is the remarkable article on Mihailovich which Mihajlo Mihajlov wrote for The New Leader, just before Tito’s courts sentenced him to seven years of hard labor in early March of this year.

I think that it is fitting that we in the free world who are aware of the truth should also do everything in our power to set the record straight and to bring about the ultimate vindication before the bar of history – of one of the noblest figures of World War II.

Draza Mihailovich, in addition to being an outstanding soldier and a great national leader, was a man who stood for everything that we in America believe in. He was a true believer in the rights enshrined in our own Declaration of Independence – the right to think and speak and pray in accordance with one’s own religious, political, economic and social beliefs, without government restraint or repression.

…the United States Congress should accede to the petition of the American airmen that they be authorized to erect in Washington with publicly subscribed funds, a monument which they would dedicate, in gratitude, to “General Draza Mihailovich, Savior of American Airmen.”

Beyond this, there is still a larger debt which the free world owes to the memory of General Draza Mihailovich. It is my hope that this debt will some day be repaid in full through the liberation of his people from communist tyranny.”

-Senator Frank J. Lausche, March 27, 1975

9. A Thanksgiving Tribute to the Americans from the General. An American Officer Remembers…

ORDER IT NOW

As we proceeded out over the Adriatic my mind flashed back to one incident which will always have great meaning for me. Before I was leaving for my tour of Serbia, the Minister [General Mihailovich] had expressed a desire to do something to honor America saying “Here we have Slava, the day of our patron saint. What is America’s slava? ”

I thought for a moment and said, ‘We have four great days, Christmas, New Year, Independence Day and Thanksgiving. Christmas we love because it is the day of Christ. New Years we enjoy because we look with hope to it, but on its Eve we celebrate, sometimes not too wisely but too well, and often the day itself finds us with aching heads. Independence day would be wonderful except for the sadness of sacrifice and mourning that sweeps the South from the cause of our Civil War. Thanksgiving is our day, our Slava, because that day we give Thanks to God for our founding Fathers and the beginning of our country and freedom.’

Mihailovich replied, ‘Good, we would honor America and on the Eve of that day each mountaintop of Serbia will have a fire lighted by our peasants.’

On Thanksgiving Eve, three Americans standing in a tiny village high in the Serbian mountains, saw a huge fiery “A” come into being. Then another, and one after the other fires appeared until eleven peaks were outlined.

This I remember. A magnificent tribute to America from a truly great man.”

Colonel Albert B. Seitz, American Liaison Officer with General Mihailovich

10. “The United States must insist on a fair and open trial for General Mihailovich, anti-Red Chetnik hero, now in the hands of the Communist regime of Marshal Tito in Yugoslavia if our future allies are to have any confidence in our pledged word as a nation.

There is no real question about the fact that General Mihailovich took up arms against the German invaders of his country in April, 1941, at a time when Soviet Russia was an ally of National Socialist Germany.

At that time the present dictator of Yugoslavia, Marshal Josip Broz, called Tito, was an expatriate, studying in Moscow as a faithful adherent of the Third International – the Comintern – which had adopted the alliance with Hitler’s Germany as an internal program of aggression for mutual benefit. For two and one half years, during the darkest days of the struggle against Germany, Italy and Japan, Mihailovich, former minister of war in Yugoslavia, fought on our side.

No question was raised as to his loyalty or valor while there was real doubt about the outcome of the war. Only after our victory was seen as to be certain did other elements in Yugoslavia flock to the well-equipped and well-provisioned ranks of Tito, who then began to receive from the United States and Britain all that had been promised – but not delivered – to Mihailovich.

This request has been categorically refused by Tito, whose supporters in the Kremlin now openly demand that all Tito’s claims be ratified without argument.

From every point of view of American law, customs and instinct, these proposals go against the grain. They contravene our basic conception of fair play, honest dealing and of the right of every man accused to be allowed witnesses in his defense.”

The Honorable Clare Boothe Luce (R) Connecticut, April 20, 1946

American playwright, editor, journalist, ambassador, and first woman elected to U.S. Congress

11. “No people in Europe have a more heroic record in this war than the Serbs. Among them, no hero is more glorious than General Draza Mihailovic.”

– Watson Kirkconnell

12. Where are the thunderers who once could speak
The Language of the Prophets, when the weak
Were broken and the good oppressed? Where are those
Whose words were cleansing fire, till there arose
the phoenix-armies from the martyrs’ dust
To make the word the deed, oppose the lust
Of tyrants and proclaim the prophets true?
Where is the gratitude our fathers knew
And sanctuary and penance for wrong power?
Did Milton fail the martyrs, Gladstone cower
Before the ruthless? Was the public pen
careful of epithet? And public men —
Were they afraid to say: “Alas we erred
And now confess our error. Let the word
Go out, perhaps to save a soul and save
Our souls”? Today the coward and the knave
Are kings. These are mean times. If it be doom,
Our tongues, at least, are free and there is room
For utterance that salves us if not saves.
Why should we ape the silence of graves?
And even these have epitaphs as tongues.
Since power is dumb before the powerful wrongs
Let one small voice salute the Serbian.
With shame at first, then prayer for that brave man.
“I.M. Draza Mihailovich (Murdered July 16, 1946)
by L. Aaronson, British Poet, July 1946

(Republished from The Vineyard of the Saker by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: History • Tags: American Media, Communism, World War II, Yugoslavia 
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  1. Oh boy, here we go.

    • Replies: @Wally
  2. Anonymous[471] • Disclaimer says:

    Serbs don’t do their cause any favours with their exclusively Orthodox identity and their obsession with Russia. A lot of Serbs seem to almost wish they were Russian.

    Makes it easy to say to the Serbs, why don’t you just go live in Russia and leave the Balkans to people who actually identify with it like the Albanians and Croats? Culturally and politically Serbs behave like a colonial settler people, not a people native to the land they live on.

    • Disagree: Mikhail
  3. Great article. Brilliant poem.

    Is there room for heroes anymore,
    When a computer follows your every step;
    Consumer passivity the store
    Of all state virtue, god reigning on the web.

    • Replies: @chris
  4. Denis says:

    May the friendship between Russians and Serbs stand forever.

  5. Allow me to help you a little bit
    bratyishki means little brothers (plural)
    bratyishkiy means brotherly
    ……………………………………………….but then Gavrilo Princip (including his team) was dirty scumbag and traitor to Europe.

  6. Joe T says:

    Great article and the movie brought forth many facts contemporary history has seemingly overlooked. I read an article once by a U.S. Army Colonel who served in the Adriatic area who said the Chetnicks were the best allies and the worst enemies. Funny how history is written to make a true hero seem to be a scoundrel. Those in power write history I guess. Thanks for giving me another angle on these good people and what they went through.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
  7. Doug1943 says:

    It would be useful if you would write a detailed reply to the Wikipedia article on Mihailovich, (or give a link to some article with does) which includes charges that the Chetniks engaged in explicit ethnic cleansing. The conventional wisdom is that Tito’s forces were not ethnic nationalists, and that all the other armed units in Yugoslavia — both pro- and anti-German — were.

    • Replies: @(((They))) Live
  8. a communist will do anything he finds expedient. ditto for any atheist. Dostoevsky – If there is no God, everything is permitted.
    of course, there are those who kill in the name of their religion… (diabolical)
    may the Lord forgive us for we know not what we do.
    Saker, why are people in a hurry to kill others, seeing that eventually, sooner or later, we all gonna die? 🙂

  9. LG says:

    I strongly suggest that the author familiarizes himself with Bulgarian history before writing them off as some sort of Slavic turncoats.

    On a positive note, it is nice to see the author praise a non-Muslim for once. For an Orthodox Christian to write to glowingly about the Islam is rather off-putting.

  10. LG says:
    @Anonymous

    That is akin to saying why don’t the Baltic peoples or the Poles move to the UK or US? After all they consistently rate among the most ardent supporters of the Anglo-Americans on the European continent. You are making a very silly point.

  11. Anonymous[388] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    It seems like most Poles have moved to the UK lol

  12. History is all inter-tribal warfare. The Jews who dominated Bolshevism hated the white Slavic gentiles of Russia and Serbia. Of course, that’s considered an anti-semitic hate fact.

  13. Saker,

    You forgot to mention that many of those White Russian emigres in Serbia openly collaborated with the German occupation and had their own military units in support of the Nazis:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Protective_Corps

    • Agree: FB
    • Replies: @Mikhail
  14. @Doug1943

    It almost as if the people who win the war get to write the history

    Wikipedia LOL

  15. Anonymous[364] • Disclaimer says:

    It seems to me that the Serbs get a lot of support on sites like this because they were in part fighting Muslims and many people think that anyone fighting Muslims must be in the right by default.

    Many right wing commentators try to naively or disingenuously frame the Balkan wars in terms of the “counter Jihad” narrative, ignoring the fact that Serbs were engaged in equally ruthless fighting against Catholic Croats and that Croats don’t regard the Serbs any more favourably on average than the Albanians or Bosniaks do. Many say it was a travesty that the US and NATO intervened against Serbia, but I don’t really understand why. Was the world just supposed to sit back and watch Serbia ethnically cleanse as much of the Balkans as they could and turn it all into Serbia? Do most posters here consider that to have been the most desirable outcome? It would appear so.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    , @Antiwar7
  16. peterAUS says:

    My family lived in Belgrade and my mother was born in the Topčidersko Brdo neighborhood of Belgrade.

    .. as for my Godmother, she was a pure Serb…

    Well….well…..look at that.

    …. today, I want to touch on a very special kind of Serb, the much vilified, slandered and otherwise hated Serbian Chetniks of the Yugoslav army and their leader, the Serbian hero Draza Mihailovich (Дража Михаиловић).

    Don’t say.

    …. my belief that any future Serbia worthy of being called Serbia can only be and will be founded on the memory of Draza Mihailovich and on the centuries of honored Serbian heroes that he epitomized.

    Interesting.

    …. useless parasite à la Queen Elizabeth II…

    Oh my.

    … the killing of over 800,000 Serbs, in the Jasenovac death camp….
    …. this monstrous Papist genocide attempt of the Serbian nation….

    Oh my.

    What I presented here is my personal, absolutely sincere, point of view.

    Glad you came through.”800 000″ and “Vatican/Papist” in particular.

    But, of course, I may be wrong (I often am!).

    Don’t say.

    I not only have no problem with fact-based and logically-constructed criticisms, I sincerely INVITE THEM!

    To quote “silviosilver”, from …hahaha…the very first comment:

    Oh boy, here we go.

  17. peterAUS says:

    Seen the video. That, to quote the author ” ….a truly exceptionally well-made film….”.
    A Rorschach test of a sort.
    What it makes of the author of this article is interesting.

    More interesting, I guess, will be watching the comments here. Getting the “feel” for various “handles”. Not the people from Balkans. Their comments are given. People from other parts of the world.
    Westerners in particular.

    Good exercise.

    • Replies: @syd.bgd
  18. peterAUS says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Honestly, I am confused.

    The author, apparently, believes all that in the article. Or that video. For a person who claims to know, understand, Balkans in WW2 it’s……..just weird. Hard to buy such a level of ignorance coming from somebody with, apparently, even blood ties to the region.

    Agenda, related to the current state of affairs there? Don’t see which one.
    The primary author’s angle is, always, “What is good for Kremlin”. I just don’t see the connection.

    Weird article.

  19. @Anonymous

    Many say it was a travesty that the US and NATO intervened against Serbia, but I don’t really understand why.

    There are leftwing and rightwing versions of this view.

    Some on the leftist fringe have attempted “Marxist” interpretations of US intervention in the Balkans. This view essentially holds that Milosevic was a genuine socialist and that this is the reason he and the Serbs were demonized and, eventually, the Serbs attacked and Milosevic unseated. In this view, charges of ethnic cleansing were a fig leaf, and some of these authors — Diane Johnstone, whose work has appeared on this site, comes to mind — have attempted to exonerate the Serbs from such charges. (One can find similar views about 9/11 and Bin Laden — US inventions to justify Middle East intervention.)

    On the right, there is an older isolationist stance on foreign policy which, imo, was rather muted during the Balkans conflict. More recently, there has developed a “traditionalist” viewpoint which sees liberal democracy, as represented by the US, as the main enemy, and which therefore blames US intervention as “spreading degeneracy” and which faults the US for siding with Muslims over Christians, often implicating Jewish interests in the process.

  20. Epigon says:

    ignoring the fact that Serbs were engaged in equally ruthless fighting against Catholic Croats and that Croats don’t regard the Serbs any more favourably on average than the Albanians or Bosniaks do. Many say it was a travesty that the US and NATO intervened against Serbia, but I don’t really understand why. Was the world just supposed to sit back and watch Serbia ethnically cleanse as much of the Balkans as they could and turn it all into Serbia?

    In 1991 census, there were 581 663 Serbs and 106 041 Yugoslavs (assimilated, denationalised Serbs mostly, mixed people the rest) listed as citizens of Croatia
    In 2001, there were 201 631 Serbs and 176 (!) Yugoslavs in Croatia.

    In 1991 census in Bosnia&Herzegovina, there were 476 000 Serbs in areas of Federation of Bosnia&Herzegovina (Croat-Muslim entity). In 2013, there are 56 000 Serbs living in FBiH.

    In Sarajevo alone, there were 157 143 Serbs and 56.470 Yugoslavs in 1991. In 2013, there were
    10 442 Serbs in Sarajevo, while they refuse to publish the number of Yugoslavs today (low thousand probably, as the whole “Others” segment is around 55k).

    In 1991 census in Kosovo&Metohija province, there were 194190 Serbs and 20365 Montenegrins
    In 2011, there were 25 532 Serbs left, in addition to low ten thousands in northern part who boycotted the census.

    Your attempts at chronology and causality are truly – depraved. Apparently, defending status quo and upholding the Constitution and both domestic and international laws is aggresion, while violent separatism is “legal” and “defensive”?

    The war in Croatia was started by Croat paramilitaries led by the Glavaš, Merčep, Vukojević trio kidnapping and murdering Serb civilians in the summer of 1991 across (east) Slavonia – numbering dozens of cases.
    Furthermore, Croat paramilitaries besieged the still legitimitate YPA bases, shot at guards, cut off power, water etc. In Split, insurgents fired at the Admiralty, murdered one guard, wounded the other, while they climbed the APC and strangled the soldier manning the MG (video available).
    Ethnic persecution was extreme – ranging from Serb journalists getting fired from the media to Oscar winner (Vukotić) being denied entry to his workplace, or Azithromycine founder (Đokić) fired as well.
    In 1990, a Croat general (Martin Špegelj) was caught on tape plotting to start a murderous campaign aimed at Serb policemen and army men, AND especially THEIR FAMILIES living in Croatia.
    He fled abroad, protected by the last PM of Yugoslavia, Ante Marković and last President of Yugoslavia, Stjepan Mesić. Both Croats.

    The war in Bosnia was started by Alija Izetbegović at the urging of US ambassador – he refused an already negotiated and agreed upon agreement between Muslims and Serbs (Karadžić-Filipović agreement). His rise to power was illegitimate as well – he lost the election among Muslims.

    What followed was Muslims and Croats calling up a nightly, illegal session of the Parliament, voting in the act of secession without any Serb deputies present, calling for a referendum.
    The referendum was held, it failed to reach the required 2/3 necessary to secede.

    The first shots of the war were fired by Muslim terrorists at a Serb wedding procession, and by Muslim terrorists on a retreating army column whose departure was negotiated to defuse the situation and prevent bloodshed – Dobrovoljačka massacre – doctors and nurses, dead bodies defiled and left in the street.

    I don’t even want to go into Markale travesty, a single 120 mm mortar round annihilating concrete, killing 100, wounding 200 people and destroying the entire market, right when the NATO is deciding whether to intervene or not.
    Ditto for William Walker, an American, CIA agent, being selected as a European delegate to Kosovo, right in time to arrange Račak hoax.

    As I have stated numerous times, scores WILL be settled. Whether it takes 50, 100, 500 years, it matters not.

    • Disagree: Malacaay
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Malacaay
    , @Jazman
  21. peterAUS says:

    Your attempts at chronology and causality are truly – depraved

    Depends. On a side, one belongs to, of course.
    As, for example:

    The war in Croatia was started by Croat paramilitaries led by the Glavaš, Merčep, Vukojević trio kidnapping and murdering Serb civilians in the summer of 1991 across (east) Slavonia – numbering dozens of cases.

    re:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plitvice_Lakes_incident

    The rest, as usual. Emphasis on the side.

    This is, sort of, new:

    ….He fled abroad, protected by the last PM of Yugoslavia, Ante Marković.

    Source?

    As for

    … scores WILL be settled. Whether it takes 50, 100, 500 years, it matters not.

    Naturally.

    • Replies: @padre
    , @Antiwar7
    , @HB
  22. JamesD says:

    The betrayal of Mihailovic needs further study. The massive infiltration of (((commies))) into the U.S. State Department is well documented and also led to the loss of China.

  23. peterAUS says:
    @Epigon

    The only interesting part of the “Balkans thing”, really, is the attitude of a “debater”.
    For the people from there it’s always…ALWAYS….what I call “100 %”. Or, “my” side all good; “their” side all bad.
    Age, sex, intelligence, education…doesn’t matter.
    I’ve come across PhDs/senior officers (or so I say…) from over there who actually have harder views than illiterate peasants from the same place.

    “We didn’t do war crimes. They/your side did it all the time. No…no…that was not a war crime, just war. In war, shit happens. Besides, where is your proof?” Now the conversation goes, always, in the way that even the best experts from Hague get lost.

    Now, it gets even more interesting. Outsiders get the same attitude. Not just those pushing the agendas (as the author here) or those paid to do it as part of their job. All of them.
    A good example is Lt Col Stuart from Britbat in Vitez. His book and the related BBC show “Warriors” for example.
    The usual bad Serbs.Bad…no…terrible Croats.Nice, innocent Muslims/Bosniaks.
    Etc.

    God help a person who tries to get to the real truth. Hehe…he/she will get attacked by everyone. Better to choose a side and stick to it.
    Funny, a?

  24. How dare those Serbs try to stop themselves from being ethnically cleansed, even worse, fighting back against their Slavic brothers who were trying to genocide them in a civilized manner

    Should’ve let the Italians take Dalmatia after WW1, desu
    Serbs were the biggest suckers on this planet

    • Agree: Denis
    • Disagree: Malacaay
  25. Epigon says:
    @peterAUS

    The reason for what you have observed is the dystopian propaganda effort aimed at demonising the Serbs and suppressing the facts, chronology since 1990s – a well funded effort.

    I have never observed Western narrative peddlers focus on HARD facts (census data, UN charter, Helsinki Accords, BND weapon smuggling in 1990, 1991), CHRONOLOGY (EEC delegation at Brioni) and UN(SC) resolution breaking – UNPA zones in Croatia annihilated, Bosniak 28th division breakthrough, Serb military losses during “genocide” in Srebrenica (significant – enough to impact the decision to let Muslim crack troops forming the spearhead break out of the encirclement).

    Faced with such Orwellian propaganda, there is literally no point in assuming a moderate, balanced outlook online (that is reserved for domestic debates) – what is the middle ground in debating the operatives who claim that Milošević or Ćosić are Serbian ultranationalists?
    How exactly am I supposed to debate people who praise “defensive, separatist, liberation” (! – that is the official narrative – “obrambeni, domovinski – za neovisnost, oslobodilački”) war fought by Croatian Army not only in modern Croatia (Serb ethnic areas) but in Bosnia&Herzegovina as well (again, in Serb ethnic areas). Let us not forget that until May, 1992 – there was only Yugoslavia.

    To avoid political and ideological discussions, I try to stick to easily checked, primary sources backed information. I will quote census data, contemporary accounts, election results; spray it all with a bit of cui bono.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  26. @Korenchkin

    Should’ve let the Italians take Dalmatia after WW1, desu

    No. Dalmatia is rightfully ancient Serbian land. Even 8th century chronicles prove this and clearly cite Serbs existing in Dalmatia while there is no evidence for Croats even existing before the 11th century despite their hardcore efforts to falsify history.

    The Italians deserve Slovenia, Trieste and Istria though since the Croats and Sovenians did the same to them there in WW2 what they did to Serbs elsewhere. Still, the Italians seriously have to stop supporting the artificial separation of the fake countries of Montenegro and Albania from Serbia …

    Serbs were the biggest suckers on this planet

    Yeah, making Yugoslavia in 1919 is literally the greatest voluntary self-inflicted catastrophe (to clear things up, Britain and France in 1915 actually offered Serbs a Greater Serbia, but Nikola Pasic and the Karadjordjevic’s rejected it for Yugoslavism 🙁 )and epic fail in all of history. I guess Merkel inviting the whole 3rd World into Europe could compete, but that one seems to be 100% deliberate.

    • Replies: @Malacaay
  27. @Anonymous

    Makes it easy to say to the Serbs, why don’t you just go live in Russia and leave the Balkans to people who actually identify with it like the Albanians and Croats?

    LOL.

    Croats dread being associated with the Balkans and are pathologically obsessed with LARPing as Germans, Austrians, Spanish and like to pretend they’re Central Europeans.

    So yes, get out of here with this garbage.

  28. I think it’s also important to clarify the truth about one of the many complete lies about the outright lies and double-spin in the Yugoslav Wars.

    For instance, here is an English translation of a Serb website that explains the truth about who was the party that committed aggression and war crimes against who around Vukovar (Croats, of course, unsurprisingly). It debunks the, “Ten lies that Croatian Schoolchildren are not taught about Vukovar”, which is the title of the article. The English translation is not perfect, but still good enough to make the debunking of Croat lies comprehensible.

    https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=sr&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zlocininadsrbima.com%2FNovost.aspx%3FNaslov%3DD%25D0%25B5s%25D0%25B5t-pr%25D0%25B5cut%25D0%25B0nih-stv%25D0%25B0ri-k%25D0%25BE%25D1%2598%25D0%25B0-d%25D0%25B5c%25D0%25B0-n%25D0%25B5c%25D0%25B5-n%25D0%25B0uciti-u-Vuk%25D0%25BEv%25D0%25B0ru

    Most importantly, it debunks the Ovcara Massacre lie, hoax and psy-op. Ovcara Field was an act of justice against Croat terrorist criminals, not some kind of “terrible massacre” against “helpless civilians”.

  29. @peterAUS

    “We didn’t do war crimes. They/your side did it all the time. No…no…that was not a war crime, just war. In war, shit happens. Besides, where is your proof?” Now the conversation goes, always, in the way that even the best experts from Hague get lost.

    The Hague is a politically rigged NATO anti-Serb court. Many of the people that staff it are not experts in much of anything, but worthless scum and outright human garbage. It literally has nothing to do with justice and truth, let alone morality or even proper procedure and legality in accordance with international law.

    Since it seems you seriously take the Hague as an authority on things, it clearly explains the fundamentally flawed nature of your views on some things to do with the Balkans.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  30. syd.bgd says:
    @peterAUS

    Peter,

    Author is wrong or not accurate in many ways, but I got the feeling that he touched some stuff that you do not understand. It’s not in Srebrenica details at all, while I highly appreciate your time and will to dig some more details for another interpretation. Tnx, pal.

    While there around, ever heard about town called Surdulica and pathways through woods towards Bulgaria in WW1? Srebrenica, Srebrenica, Srebrenica! It is but a minor episode for that part of Bosnia, another quarrel between local folks. They will wait for another 50 or 5000 years to settle these and previous scores.

    Bulgarian from post no.1 doesn’t know about Surdulica either, I guess :). We, southern Serbs, call them the smartest people in the world: they have lost two world wars but lost 20 000 soldiers, haven’t been invaded and plundered and never paid any reparations. As my late grandmother used to say before good morning and good night glass of milk: “Damn Bulgarians!” (Sounds familiar, huh?)
    Of course, Bulgarians were happy to have open air performance of Roman Catholic Multinational Religious Corporation CEO in their lands, to host NATO defensive/offensive platforms as well as South Stream – Serbian energy lifeline – blocked. Thracian heritage, well documented by ancient Greek writers.

    Now to Mihailovich. Author is wrong in very serious aspect of the problem: there is a huge difference between those under direct command and local loosely connected bearded gangs. My family knows to the last detail who and from which family came from their (so far away from Mihailovich and any line of command) Chetnik village, along with Bulgarians, to collect slave labor for Germans. Many haven’t made it back home. They didn’t mind at all are they capturing sons of our Chetnik or Partisan part of the family. Or if there’ll be any food left, they took whatever was not that well hidden. So he is not hero for many of Serbs, since these with insignia of his guerilla killed or sold out many of our own. Just like Communsits, for others of us. There were no angels here around, maybe some somewhere and somehow. Thucydides describes that stuff for any literate to read: civil war in present day Corfu.

    And let me conclude: taking a closer look at 1948-1965 purge of YU communists with pro Russian/Soviet feelings or words – yes, there is a detailed study based on statistics, in Serbian Cyrillic – author as well as you might find that warm feelings towards Russians are in political/cultural/religious/even folk DNA of most of Serbs.
    Knowing some history might help anyone understand why: most of us are grateful and most of us are not ready to have “Double cross to bear” (borrowed from T. Waits). In last instance, we Serbs are indivisible part of “Ana Karenyina” emotional plot and we are grateful and proud of it. We know what is against us and who our enemies are.

    So West and Central (enlightened!) Europe has only one way to deal with us: keep on killing what is left of this nation. For our own benefit, of course: at least, “more you live in sin deeper to hell you fall”.

    Now I’ll have one perfectly balanced, 20 years in barrel old plum brandy for your health.

    See you ’round.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Spisarevski
  31. peterAUS says:
    @Epigon

    …the dystopian propaganda effort aimed at demonising the Serbs and suppressing the facts, chronology since 1990s – a well funded effort.

    True.

    ….Bosniak 28th division …Muslim crack troops ……

    Hahahahaha………sorry. You were saying?

    Faced with such Orwellian propaganda, there is literally no point in assuming a moderate, balanced outlook online (that is reserved for domestic debates) – what is the middle ground in debating the operatives who claim that Milošević or Ćosić are Serbian ultranationalists?

    Yes.

    How exactly am I supposed to debate people who praise “defensive, separatist, liberation” (! – that is the official narrative – “obrambeni, domovinski – za neovisnost, oslobodilački”) war fought by Croatian Army not only in modern Croatia (Serb ethnic areas) but in Bosnia&Herzegovina as well (again, in Serb ethnic areas).

    Hehe…you don’t. It IS complicated and, besides, what’s the point? Ever changed anybody’s mind online/in private? I haven’t….especially when chatting with “locals”.
    The thing is, though, your side does like to play the victim, ONLY. As all the rest three (four?five) do. Good tactics for sure in the current paradigm for practical propaganda but, still, not quite true.
    All three sides were, IMHO, both victims and aggressors, depending on the time and place. All sides committed unnecessary atrocities. Etc. Your side lost.

    For me there are two elements re that loss: your side hasn’t learned much from that loss, IMHO. And, more importantly, feels it would, most likely, repeat the same mistake(s).

    Which brings us back to the article: the premise is wrong. Next time, because it will be the next time, of course, you should be SMARTER. Hehe….that doesn’t necessarily mean getting “even” with Croats, but anyway.

    As for

    I try to stick to easily checked, primary sources backed information. I will quote census data, contemporary accounts, election results; spray it all with a bit of cui bono.

    I suggest, also, reading testimonies and more importantly, SPEAKING, with people who’ve “been there”. Isn’t…hehe….80% of human communication non-verbal?
    Plenty of those still alive and around. Of course, for multiple reasons, you ignore 90% what they are SAYING, but the rest could be really useful in “getting” all that. Non-verbal cues are especailly important there.

    Not that truth matters, of course. Especially in Balkans.

  32. peterAUS says:
    @syd.bgd

    …Srebrenica details…will to dig some more details for another interpretation….

    Just one thing: WHO was/were behind Beara? Who gave him the order/directive/intent…idea? He wasn’t the “level” to come up with it.

    Now, of course, because the case is still so hot it burns it’s perhaps unwise to dig too deep into it, let alone post material online, I get that.

    Still, it’s obvious: SOMEBODY must’ve been behind him. Some fraction. And each fraction was made of people, with certain pyramid.

    In my mind, as of now, two most likely: hardcore Serb nationalist fraction within Bosnia, OR, certain elements of the Yugoslav army. In that order.

    As from

    Now to Mihailovich….

    to

    …There were no angels here around, maybe some somewhere and somehow. Thucydides describes that stuff for any literate to read: civil war in present day Corfu….

    Yep.

    More importantly, of course:

    We know what is against us and who our enemies are.

    So West and Central (enlightened!) Europe has only one way to deal with us: keep on killing what is left of this nation. For our own benefit, of course: at least, “more you live in sin deeper to hell you fall”.

    Yep.

    Now, a question of a sort.
    I guess that a “handle” coming in this online pub is aware of JQ and “their” place in the current paradigm. Their position, role, and power in the quote above.

    So………how come that “your side” has so good impression/attitude about “them”? Most, if not all, of your top people, are always so keen to point to a lot of similarities between you and ‘them”. Very friendly, always. Always on “their” side.

    I do get NDH, Jasenovacc etc, but, still. Feels…….dumb?!

    Thoughts?

    • Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous
  33. peterAUS says:
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    ….debunks the Ovcara Massacre lie, hoax and psy-op. Ovcara Field was an act of justice against Croat terrorist criminals,…

    Oh my.

    …it clearly explains the fundamentally flawed nature of your views on some things to do with the Balkans.

    Same sentiment exactly.

    Or

  34. Serbian politician & historian Latinka Perović (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latinka_Perovi%C4%87 ) wrote in a text (one can use google translate):

    [MORE]

    U Čkrebićevim memoarima vi vidite da je poslednja decenija 1980-1990. jedna takva bezobzirna borba za vlast među njima, jedna besomučna borba za vlast, šta će oni s tom vlašću da urade, šta to znači za jugoslovenski centar, za poziciju Srbije, oni stalno nju brane od ostalih, a u stvari polako ulaze u sukob, pripremaju konflikt koji je neizbežan. Ono što je mene iznenadilo, jer ja to tada nisam posmatrala iznutra, gledate to spolja, čujete nešto, ti su odnosi bili dovedeni do neprijateljstva koje je lako preraslo posle u rat.

    Srbi su imali tu naivnost jer su mislili da je jugoslovenska ideja nešto što neće biti iznevereno ni u jednoj jugoslovenskoj republici, oni će tu kao „kroz hladnu vodu“ sa svojom vojskom proći, vojskom koja je ideološka, koja brani socijalizam, koja je napravljena za to da rešava i unutrašnje društvene konflikte. Tu su se prevarili! Ako mene pitate, ja mislim da je Srbija doživela jedan slom, da je ona stvarno robovala svojim, neko to zove mitovima, a to su neki istorijski izbori i neke pretenzije. Kao što, uostalom, gledam Rusiju, tu konstantnu pretenziju za teritorijalnom ekspanzijom, vi u suštini kompenzujete ono što vaš čovek, koji čini tu državu, nema. On nema nigde slobodu, nema je u porodici, nema je u školi, nema je u vojsci, on nema mogućnost da u politici kaže šta misli, on je stalno na nekoj vrsti robije, meni je uvek problem da prevedem dijapazon kazni na koje je čovek mogao biti osuđen. Zašto? Zato što ima knjigu Bihnerovu ili neku misao. Znači, imate jednu pretenziju koja sve to treba da kompenzuje, a to je ta teritorijalna moć, da se širite.

    Nešto od toga postoji i ovde, i strašno je da nakon takvog ishoda, toga niste svesni. Ja mislim da je Srbija danas, možda grešim, toliko daleko od demokratije, sa stanovišta položaja čoveka, prava manjina, marginalnih grupa, položaja žene… U Srbiji je to stvarno neodvojivo od razumevanja srpskog pitanja, problem demokratije za Srbiju, to, takoreći, podrazumeva. Ne možete da uvedete u Srbiji demokratiju i da imate specijalni vojni režim, teror na Kosovu, kako to možete da uradite, a da nemate vlast koja mora da steže?! Šta je najnoviji Ustav Srbije? Ja idem po Srbiji, posmatram, opštine nemaju ni minimalnu autonomiju, da ne govorim o regionima. Ako ja dobro razumem sadašnju srpsku strategiju, ako ona uopšte postoji, ponovo se računa sa centralizacijom države, sa povratkom izgubljenih teritorija… Ja mislim da je to put u nepovrat! Nesposobnost da napravite modernu državu, u suštini kompenzujete ekspanzijom. To nema kraja!

    Yet, the central part is easy:

    If you ask me, I think that Serbia experienced a breakdown, that it is really enslaved by its own, someone calls it myths, and these are some historical choices and some pretensions. Just as I look at Russia, after all, that constant claim to territorial expansion, you are essentially compensating for what your man, who makes up that country, does not have. He has no freedom anywhere, he is not in the family, he is not in school, he is not in the military, he does not have the ability to say what he means in politics, he is constantly in some kind of prison, it is always a problem for me to translate the range of punishments that man could be convicted….So you have one claim that has to compensate for all this, and that is that territorial power, to expand.
    ………………………..
    I think that is the way of no return! The inability to make a modern state is essentially offset by expansion. That has no end!

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  35. “Wow, American propaganda is bad. Here’s some Serbian propaganda which is 100% correct.”

    The Saker continues to be the most pathetic contributor to Unz.com.

    No one but the most gullible will buy any of this shit. It’s like believing in Iraqi WMDs, that Assad launches gas attacks daily, etc. etc. etc.

  36. peterAUS,

    These Balkan countries are all small but in a strategically important location. They don’t really win or lose by themselves. The Serbs lost this last round because their enemies had powerful friends. You couldn’t have really expected them to have done much better given the circumstances. But knowing what these friends are like, hmm? Things could very well change in the future – the very near future. No point in speculating yet. But you see how US dropped the Kurds. And Trump wanting to pull out of the Middle East. Well, one day he may want to pull out of the Balkans too and – let’s say he closes down Bondsteel (which he won’t much need if he pulls out of Afghanistan as it mostly serves as the heroin transhipment point) – wow – guess what? and so on. Then possible changes in Europe. All the Western European nationalist parties (except the Catalonians) are pro-Serb and anti-Muslim, including the Alternative for Germany. If they never get the power so much the worse for their own people. But if they do, then Serbs will be on a roll. So if major changes take place in European and US policy, the next round in the Balkans may be quite different. Still I’d prefer to see all those Balkan hotheads calm down and start cooperating.

  37. peterAUS says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    The problem with Serbs, or their own problem, is simple: a rejection of the West.

    Russia has the same attitude,not a problem. She/it can have it. The location, size, potential…just a sheer military might is enough for it.
    Serbs have been trying to do the same. The location, size, potential, military might……………………………..

    And the West knows it.

    Which is weird, actually. Even the author of this thing said it: the King and the government of the time fled to……..where…….ah, yes, the United Kingdom. Mihailovic was loyal to that government.
    At the end when it was obvious they were going to lose where did they try to flee? Wait….ah, yes…the West, again.

    This latest episode. Where did the people who made a lot of impact on their fighting capability came from? Wait….the West. Vasiljkovic and Ulemek. Where did they learn those skills? Etc.

    Gets tragicomical.
    Where did a lot of those displaced Serbs go? Wait…..ah, yes….USA, Canada, Germany, Sweden…Australia, New Zealand.
    I sometimes come across some of them over drinks.Most hate the West. And then diligently go to work, pay taxes, build properties, send kids to schools here….etc…etc.

    Most of them love Russia. I wonder..NOT…how many of them would go to live there as they live in the West?

    The author. Same attitude.

    That willful rejection of the West and, at the same time, willingness to work, even live there is……..well, there is a name for it.

    I heard some time ago from a local guy, third generation from Balkans: “the DIVIDE on Drina river” is the thing. The East–West Schism.
    I guess he was onto something there.

    Of course, the answer is simple:”but…but….the West made a lot of bad for us”. Yes, it did. It did the same to Italians, Germans and Japanese, in that order probably (nukes have own quality).
    You see Japs with the same attitude as yours? I know some, rather fierce, Japanese nationalists (you should hear them about Koreans…..hehe….). They are O.K. with Yanks. They know the game, their place, and use it wisely. Keyword “wisely”.

    The author and his …ahm…”team” here know what they are doing. It IS good for Kremlin.
    How good it is for Serbs is another matter.

    And, the beauty of the setup is: the times are similar to those when Turks were invading Balkans. At the time, Christians there did work together against the common threat.

    Makes you think, a?

  38. @Commentator Mike

    knowing what these friends are like, hmm? Things could very well change in the future – the very near future. No point in speculating yet. But you see how US dropped the Kurds. And Trump wanting to pull out of the Middle East. Well, one day he may want to pull out of the Balkans too and – let’s say he closes down Bondsteel (which he won’t much need if he pulls out of Afghanistan as it mostly serves as the heroin transhipment point) – wow – guess what? and so on. Then possible changes in Europe. All the Western European nationalist parties (except the Catalonians) are pro-Serb and anti-Muslim, including the Alternative for Germany. If they never get the power so much the worse for their own people. But if they do, then Serbs will be on a roll. So if major changes take place in European and US policy, the next round in the Balkans may be quite different.

    You’ve almost fully understood the great potential there is. The Turkish military operation in North Syria and its indecisive or hesitant approval by Trump sets an excellent precedent for Serb military operations in Kosovo to restore Serb control and kill the Albanian terrorists. Still, I’m not sure that Serbia could be able to withstand any sanctions regime that would come after any military operation, or whether Serbia could win after going through some bizarre negotiations and receiving a bizarre letter like Erdogan did from Trump and etc.

    Still I’d prefer to see all those Balkan hotheads calm down and start cooperating.

    LOL.

    Co-operation, let alone trust and permanent friendship, is literally impossible with neighboring peoples that have cut down your ethnic areas and killed millions of your people over the last century (Croats, Bosnian Muslims and Albanians). Having said that, for Serbs, Bosnian Muslims, Albanians and their powerful backers are the main enemy right now. Kosovo and Bosnia are the focus on where Serb efforts will be directed. Dealing with the Croats will come much later, certainly after Bosnia is dealt with. Who knows, maybe Serbs and Croats could possibly agree to a partition of Bosnia just like the Soviets and Germans partitioned Poland in 1939, or something similar.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  39. @peterAUS

    Now, a question of a sort.
    I guess that a “handle” coming in this online pub is aware of JQ and “their” place in the current paradigm. Their position, role, and power in the quote above.

    So………how come that “your side” has so good impression/attitude about “them”? Most, if not all, of your top people, are always so keen to point to a lot of similarities between you and ‘them”. Very friendly, always. Always on “their” side.

    I do get NDH, Jasenovacc etc, but, still. Feels…….dumb?!

    Thoughts?

    As true as it is that Serbs can to some level share a common WW2 experience, Jews sold weapons to Mladic in Bosnia and that Israel opposes the fake country of Kosovo, the Serbs goyim need to be aware of Madeleine Albright and the harm other “tribe members” (Wesley Clark, George Soros, Lawrence Eagleburger’s “Serb children shall laugh no more” and some others) have done to us by leading the US-NATO onslaught against us.

  40. peterAUS says:
    @Commentator Mike

    These Balkan countries are all small but in a strategically important location.

    Yep.

    Things could very well change in the future – the very near future. No point in speculating yet.

    Yes and no. Or, not much and yes in my book.

    Still I’d prefer to see all those Balkan hotheads calm down and start cooperating.

    Unlikely.

    As things stay now I’d put my money on a certain scenario for the next, say, 20 years, at least.
    We’ll see.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  41. @peterAUS

    The problem with Serbs, or their own problem, is simple: a rejection of the West.

    And the West knows it.

    Which is weird, actually.

    This is a complicated issue at least 1000 years old. I personally do not completely hate (better word or phrase, maybe? idk) the West and I genuinely do feel sad and disturbed by all the immigration and multiculturalism happening there right now.

    I feel especially sad for the French above all. In the past 200 years, even though they haven’t been perfect, the French have been the most consistently pro-Serb nation (as much as possible) of all the Western ones. For instance, in 1990’s, Mitterand genuinely did everything he could to delay recognizing Slovenia, Croatia and Bosnia along with Badinter Commission, and above all, Pierre Henri Brunel, who leaked the NATO plans for the bombing and land invasion of Serbia/Yugoslavia in 1998. Of course, the whole thing with Pierre Henri Brunel again shows how blatantly false the “official” version of events to do with Kosovo is, and how NATO in advance planned to attack Serbs, instead of the NATO attack having anything to do with the moronic hoax humanitarian garbage they made up …

    This latest episode. Where did the people who made a lot of impact on their fighting capability came from? Wait….the West. Vasiljkovic and Ulemek. Where did they learn those skills? Etc.

    What about Ratko Mladic, Bozidar Delic, Nebojsa Pavkovic and Vladimir Lazarevic? None of those guys had much of anything to do with the collective “West”, besides having to fight it in land combat. Vasiljkovic and Ulemek are low level compared to the guys I’ve mentioned here.

    Most of them love Russia. I wonder..NOT…how many of them would go to live there as they live in the West?

    There actually are somewhere between 20,000 – 50,000 Serbs in Russia right now. There are actually also another 20,000 – 50,000 Serbs in China as well, btw. Sure, there are more Serbs in Western countries, although if Western countries rapidly accelerate in the current direction they’re heading towards, this is very likely to change.

    That willful rejection of the West and, at the same time, willingness to work, even live there is……..well, there is a name for it.

    Economics. That’s the name. What you’re insinuating is actually what Zeljko Komsic, the formal Croat representative in Bosnia, began openly stating, “that Serbs must love NATO and the EU because they mostly go to work in those countries”. Of course, Komsic doesn’t even speak for Bosnian Croats and is practically an ethnic Croat stooge for Bosnian Muslims, while Dragan Covic is the real representative of Bosnia Croats, which clearly indicates Komsic isn’t worth taking seriously. What Komsic basically ignores (putting 1990’s and present politics aside) is that the problem of emigration to the West becomes worse once a Balkan country becomes more deeply integrated with the West, especially EU and NATO, not less severe …

    The author and his …ahm…”team” here know what they are doing. It IS good for Kremlin.
    How good it is for Serbs is another matter.

    In geo-political terms, the West isn’t an option for Serbia and Republika Srpska since the current world system of the USA-NATO-EU, and so on, is fundamentally anti-Serb in its nature and design, which has been proven clearly from 1990 to present day, if not even earlier. Serbia literally has no other alternative besides Russia and China to achieve its long term aims (Trump in the future, maybe?). Liberation of Kosovo and Bosnia, and so on. The West in its current design and nature directly stands against the most basic of Serb interests in the Balkans. If the West changed its approach, Serbs and Russians could easily get along with it and have great relations. One must wonder which camp is the cause of the problems between the two groups (West or Serbs + Russians) …

    And, the beauty of the setup is: the times are similar to those when Turks were invading Balkans. At the time, Christians there did work together against the common threat.

    Makes you think, a?

    The time of Serbs is coming 🙂

  42. @TheTotallyAnonymous

    Something else that could perhaps also help the Serbs, especially vis-a-vis the Albanians, is if some really tough law and order parties were to win elections in the West and start implementing serious anti-crime policies, as most of the Kosovar funding comes from drugs and human trafficking. Most seem to think that western liberals are guided by some altruism in their support of those Muslim “victims” but I think it just comes from simple corruption of the politicians and media and entertainment personalities (other than their own perceived Western geopolitical and economic interests in the Balkans). I’m sure the Albanian lobby invests some of its ill-gotten monetary gains into bribing and paying politicians and others for the support and recognition that they get. So a serious rough and tough anti-crime wave by western authorities could dent their criminal income. And Montenegro too, which is just a bandit state set up for money laundering. Mind you Serbia and other Balkan states aren’t much better either, but suppression of crime in the West could still go a long way to help. Even all this business of illegal immigrants pouring into Europe is mostly crime based and not some humanitarian activity as the liberal media try to present it, and most of those involved NGOs are criminal organisations involved in illegal activities hiding under the UNHCR or some other banner. But for now they all hold sway fooling everybody with their propaganda lies while profiting from their crimes.

    On the other hand, increasing Islamisation of the West and replacement of the European electorate by Muslim immigrants doesn’t bode well for Serbia. Its future is tied up with geopolitical changes in the region and further afield.

    • Replies: @FB
  43. @peterAUS

    No, this is just a superficial level. Most of problems come down to national question: Russians have, so far, been cautious & intelligent, unlike Hitler in 1939 & Milošević in 1991 (all X must live in one state).
    True, there is a problem with Crimea (which is atypical) & east Ukraine (which is a different case than Crimea). In other cases, Russians have been very self-restrained & will, I think, continue to behave similarly. I don’t know what will happen with Ukrainian conflict, but it will, in all probability, be resolved with some kind of compromise.

    What is definitely defeated is Russian Messianism & their ambitions to expand into all of eastern & central Europe. Better word would be deflated, collapsed,… because there was actually no defeat. This expansionist ideology just fizzled.

    As for Serbia, their national ideology, as has been gradually built in past 150 or more years had been literally defeated -almost. The only thing that remains is the precarious situation in Bosnia & Herzegovina. What some Serbs understand (and most delusional looneys who’d been manipulated for too long don’t)- all/virtually all Serbs won’t live in one state, ever. Their national minorities live & will continue to live in other countries, but not in one state, which is, by the way, the case with their neighbors: Croats, Bosnian Muslims, Albanians,… as is the case with more numerous & significant other peoples like Germans, French or Russians.

    And because they, or the big part of still manipulated & indoctrinated Serbian population is still delusional – and impotent, and will grow even more impotent & miserable by time if they don’t awake from their historical delusions, their agony of seething rage, socio-economic & cultural march into black hole of self-annihilation will continue – until the reality principle wins in them. Until then, they’ll be just writhing in agony of hysterical outbursts for the circus of their media scene & continue to live off EU help, basically a life as EU semi-colony.

    • Troll: TheTotallyAnonymous
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Seraphim
  44. @peterAUS

    I wrote:

    “Still I’d prefer to see all those Balkan hotheads calm down and start cooperating.”

    You replied:

    “Unlikely.”

    The Totally Anonymous seems to agree with you replying with a LOL. I’m not sure how reflective is his viewpoint of the general population there. Sure most talk macho and hate each other but how many would go to the extent to start extracting revenge? Of course given the opportunity many would and then you only need a few to start making trouble. I still hope that each time there is a round of wars there, and there probably will be if opportunities arise, they will be less vicious and with lower casualties than the previous round. After all those people have demonstrated through various periods that they can get on with each other. If things are going well and people are living a productive and affluent existence it’s hard to raise them to cause havoc and mayhem, and in fact the economic decline of Yugoslavia imposed by the IMF contributed largely to the outbreak of war. Even now the businessmen and criminals from those regions cooperate regardless of their ethnicity.

  45. @Commentator Mike

    Only partially right:

    1. these peoples can live only as neighbors in well-defined areas & nation-states, similar to Scandinavian peoples. There is no going back to any form of fake unity.

    2. virtually all Internet “warriors”: this is just talk, talk….and nothing more. Just frothing at the mouth. All sides. The war was a unilateral Serbian enterprise from the late 1980s, simply because Serbs stole Yu-Army arsenal. Had it not been so, there would have been no war.

    Years 1991 & 1992: Serbs are 11% of Croatia’s & 33% of Bosnia & Herzegovina population. They support Slobodan Milošević’s pan-Serbian movement which took JNA/Yugoslav Army under Serbian control. This Army has been financed by all Yugoslav republics (Serbia plus Montenegro 36%, Croatia 28%, Slovenia 19%,..). So, Serbs literally “stole” all these planes, tanks, ships, rockets, guns, howitzers, … and, via their fifth column, first Croatian Serbs, then BiH Serbs, embarked upon their provincial imperial expansion: they wanted to occupy the entire Bosnia and Herzegovina & ca. 70% of Croatia. This was a combined aggression: Serbia proper + Montenegro +JNA + local Serbs.

    Had they not possessed/stolen all others’ arms, there would have been no war.

    As far as Kosovo goes: by 1999, NATO was fed up with Milošević & knew that they’d lose all credibility if they remained passive as they’d been in past 10 years. Bombing ensued & Serbs lost; in the aftermath, most Serbian population fled & they remain only in a small area covering less than 5% of the province along the border with Serbia proper, less than 5% of the province’s population. Kosovo got independence, which is legally questionable, but politically not too much: Serbia, with less than 6 million Serbs, would not know what to do or how to absorb extremely hostile 1.6-1.8 million Albanians- aliens in culture, identity, language, custom, religion,…-everything. And these extremely inimical aliens, now, unlike in all history from 19th C on, would be armed with tanks, howitzers, rocket launchers… anything they would like to possess.

    Serbs do not have Army barracks in Kosovo anymore; they don’t have logistical support of ethnically Serbian pockets in Kosovo- and Albanians are not disarmed, as they had been in the last decade of the 20th C.

    The situation has been changed, for good.

    • Troll: TheTotallyAnonymous
    • Replies: @peterAUS
  46. peterAUS says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    An interesting point.
    Serbs from Republika Srpska have no chance of joining Serbia. Makes sense.

    The same, of course, should apply to Croats in Herzeg Bosna.

    Not according to some guys I speak with, sometimes, here. For some reasons they prefer joining Croatia to staying in Bosnia and Herzegovina.

    Anyway.

  47. peterAUS says:
    @Commentator Mike

    ….I still hope that each time there is a round of wars there, and there probably will be if opportunities arise, they will be less vicious and with lower casualties than the previous round.

    Tell me something.
    If a civil war were to break out in USA next year, do you think it would be less vicious than the last one?
    Or, should some civil war(s) break out in Europe, they’d be less vicious than the previous ones?
    With the current racial, ethnic, religious and ideological mixup, I don’t think so.

    …. If things are going well and people are living a productive and affluent existence …

    True.
    You see that happening in Balkans? Or Europe, for that matter? Even the USA?

    This will go two ways, everywhere: managerial state sliding more and more in not so polite totalitarianism, or, inter-group strife.
    Next 10 years the former, especially in the West. Fringe areas, who knows?

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  48. peterAUS says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Informative.

    Hehehe…..true Croat conservative, a?
    Makes perfect sense, of course.

    Hahaha…I guess that’s what Yugoslav Communists were saying before the “Troubles” about Ustashe, for example. Or Shiptar/Albanian separatism. Definitely about Chetniks. Muslim thing wasn’t even registering I guess.
    Something as….let me rephrase a bit:

    There is no going back to any form of nationalism/separatism.

    all “extremist groups” “warriors”: this is just talk, talk….and nothing more. Just frothing at the mouth. All sides.

    LIke HNO, for example. Or …haha…CRB. Oh my….all good.

    The situation has been changed, for good. Hail the Great Leader and the Great Party.

    Sure it is. Sure.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  49. @peterAUS

    The point is that all peoples had been, in Yugoslavia, in a straitjacket (more or less). It was an artificial compromise society. With democracy & freedom, it collapsed & virtually all peoples showed their true sentiments, aspirations, wills, …

    And they wanted their own nation-states, with maximalist wishes (which may be understandable).

    Now, after the dust has settled, virtually all peoples got their wishes fulfilled- but not in their maximalist forms, because you never get all you want. Such is life. You’ll get something, or most things- but you’ll never get everything you wished for (Irish the entire island, Israeli Jews Biblical borders, Greeks great Hellas including Constantinople, …).

    Virtually the only unresolved problem of ex- Yu wars remains Bosnia & Herzegovina. Not one of three peoples has the power to change anything significantly within it; not one of its neighbors has the power to occupy or reshape it- it is too big a bite no one can swallow. Perhaps the biggest threat to its existence are Bosnian Muslims, whose leadership, as well as their entire world-view, are completely at odds with reality & are more historically-politically stupid than Serbs are about Kosovo.

    So, it is, theoretically, possible that B & H will disintegrate. Just- it can happen only through war. And, Croats are too weak to start it & finish it unilaterally; both Serbs & Muslims are too vulnerable, from geopolitics to anything other, to accomplish anything. No “alliance” of any two peoples against the third would work, even in a short run; and no support from any outside power (US, EU, Russia, Turkey,..) can essentially change the position of that protectorate.

    If they have some brains left, peoples in Bosnia & Herzegovina will have to learn to coexist, uneasily, as a 3rd world semi-shithole Switzerland. If not, they will continue to rot & collapse unto themselves, but without any permanent change & resolution.

    Because, if some fictional country had consisted of France, Germany & Italy, it would have disintegrated, inevitably. Just- Switzerland abides.

  50. peterAUS says:

    ..virtually all peoples got their wishes fulfilled..

    Ah, that’s good. I was thinking that Albanians still wanted something from Serbia, Montenegro and Macedonia. Or that Bosnian Muslims wanted to abolish Republika Srpska and create unitary state. It appears I was mistaken….hehe…funny.

    …Virtually the only unresolved problem of ex- Yu wars remains Bosnia & Herzegovina….

    Naturally. For Croats. True.
    I just have a vague feeling that some other players have different feelings. Serbs, for example, about Kosovo. Or Albanians about parts of Serbia, Montenegro and Macedonia. Or….anyway.

    Not one of three peoples has the power to change anything significantly within it; not one of its neighbors has the power to occupy or reshape it- it is too big a bite no one can swallow.

    Of course, as long as The Current Empire can “deliver” the usual. Things could change in 10, 20 years.

    Perhaps the biggest threat to its existence are Bosnian Muslims, whose leadership, as well as their entire world-view, are completely at odds with reality…

    Don’t say.

    So, it is, theoretically, possible that B & H will disintegrate. Just- it can happen only through war.

    Aha. As always.

    Croats are too weak to start it & finish it unilaterally; both Serbs & Muslims are too vulnerable, from geopolitics to anything other, to accomplish anything. No “alliance” of any two peoples against the third would work, even in a short run; and no support from any outside power (US, EU, Russia, Turkey,..) can essentially change the position of that protectorate.

    For now. I’d leave EU, Russia and Turkey out of it. All it takes is unwillingness of the USA to participate. Not inability; unwillingness. Say….busy with something else somewhere else.

    …If they have some brains left peoples in Bosnia & Herzegovina will have to…..

    That’s one way to look at it. Another is nobody will ask them much, as always. The thinking will be done somewhere else; the peoples there will simply execute. Pun intended.

  51. @peterAUS

    They wanted to fight, at least a significant part of them in 1992; now- no one. It’s like Germans or French in 1920.

    Literally- no one. And no one (Albanians, Serbs, Muslims, …) is willing to sacrifice anything; max, what they could do are street fights & nothing more. Now, with much different cultural &economic climate- there is a lack of will, motivation & the rest.

    Warpath for these tribes is over. They are looking forward to better life in reservations.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  52. peterAUS says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Let’s agree to disagree and move on.

  53. @peterAUS

    Or, should some civil war(s) break out in Europe, they’d be less vicious than the previous ones?

    Weapons are getting more powerful and there are more people but future wars in Europe, or US, will have lower casualties unless they go nuclear. The last round of wars in ex-Yugo lasted longer than during WWII and there were far less casualties. I think it will be more low intensity warfare. Even in Ukraine it can’t compare to what it was like during WWII. Something like lower casualties, especially civilian ones, makes for better PR, or people like to think they’re more civilised and educated. At least the Europeans. I don’t think they’re teaching the Geneva Convention to Boko Haram. Still the potential is there in war for the animal to come out.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  54. Denis says:
    @peterAUS

    You’re a bizarre bogan

  55. peterAUS says:
    @Commentator Mike

    Vicious has nothing to do with number of casualties, in my book at least.

    I think it will be more low intensity warfare….

    Several possible scenarios.

    Still the potential is there in war for the animal to come out.

    Oh yes.

  56. Seraphim says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Russian ‘messianism & their ambitions to expand into all of eastern & central Europe’ fizzled out so easily because it never existed but in the political imaginary of the ‘West’, which projected its own ‘messianism’ on Russia.
    What Russia really had and will always have is a natural geo-political interest in these regions in which the ‘West’ had the secular ambitions to expand and kept expanding under the ideological smoke screen of ‘containing’ the ‘Oriental’ humanoids and ‘civilizing’ them.

    • Agree: SeekerofthePresence
  57. peterAUS says:

    The pub management just moved this table from the back corner straight next to the taps.
    How nice.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  58. chris says:
    @SeekerofthePresence

    “Today the coward and the knave
    Are kings.”
    Great poem indeed, thanks for pointing me back to it; I had initially only glanced at it.

    • Replies: @SeekerofthePresence
  59. padre says:
    @peterAUS

    Well, what a great source you mention; wikipedia!

  60. @Commentator Mike

    I’d prefer to see all those Balkan hotheads calm down and start cooperating.

    That’s not really possible. The other day, the Croat mayor of Vukovar, Ivan Penava, did a chimp-out by throwing a written proposal by the Serb minority for signs in Cyrillic onto the floor. He also went into a hysterical speech about “Greater Serbian aggression” and the usual Croat garbage.

    Here is the whole thing explained in English translation from a Serb report on the event.

    https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=sr&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.standard.rs%2F2019%2F10%2F18%2Fgradonacelink-vukovara-bacio-na-pod-statut-na-cirilici%2F

    This is but a small part of the reason why there can be no peace in the Balkans …

    • Replies: @Malacaay
  61. @syd.bgd

    they have lost two world wars but lost 20 000 soldiers, haven’t been invaded and plundered and never paid any reparations.

    We lost 20 000 soldiers in WW2 and only due to the commies eagerly throwing the army to help the USSR in the last stage of the war. If Tsar Boris III was not poisoned by Hitler, we would have lost none, as we lost more than enough in the two Balkan wars and WW1 only to lose some 60 000 km2 of our land. So the Tsar was indeed smart to do anything to avoid more Bulgarian lives being lost.

    The casualties in WW1, some 87 000 soldiers, were lower than yours but that is because we’ve always been much better than you at this war business, winning with less casualties even when vastly outgunned. You can google the battles of Doiran or the battle of Dobrich to see what I mean.

    As my late grandmother used to say before good morning and good night glass of milk: “Damn Bulgarians!” (Sounds familiar, huh?)

    Fuck you too. And don’t bitch about some minor war crimes after all the killing, repression and brainwashing you did in Macedonia.

  62. Antiwar7 says:
    @Anonymous

    Why was the Nato intervention a travesty? The Serbs were allies of the Allies during WW II, unlike the Croats and Bosnian Muslims. During the 90s, the Serbs were no worse than the other sides fighting, and there need not have been any fighting if Germany didn’t recognize the unilateral secession of the Croats (using their good buddy Tito:s borders) or the US the unilateral secession of the Izetbegovic wing of the Bosnian Muslims.

  63. @peterAUS

    All it takes is unwillingness of the USA to participate. Not inability; unwillingness. Say….busy with something else somewhere else.

    I couldn’t agree more.

    Anyway, what I think any article at Unz, or in present day to do with Serbs in general is always the 1990’s wars. Serbs really need a comprehensive and thorough exlpanation of the truth of the events of the 1990’s to debunk all the NATO-Croat and “Western” propaganda about these events.

    Something along the lines of what WW2 Revisionsists have with, “The Greatest Story Never Told” movie/documentary series, or, something what Hindu secularists and Muslims have with the “Sword of Tipu Sultan” book and film series. I’m not sure what I would title a Serb version of such a work. So far, I think that, “The Struggle of a People for Survival” sounds good.

    What I do know is that it would need to counter the NATO-Croat narrative that dominates the Western mainstream. The truth about events such as the “Log Revolution” and the glorious martyrdom of Major Milan Tepic would be important to feature. Of course, Milisav Sekulic, Dragan Vasiljkovic, General Ratko Mladic, Ljubisa Savic Mauzer, Nebojsa Pavkovic, Vladimir Lazarevic and Bozidar Delic, along with a few others, would feature prominently as the heroes and protagonists. The antagonists would be just as much all the external enemies of the Serb people (NATO, US officials, “certain tribesmen”, Germany, Vatican, Croats, Bosnian Muslims and etc.) as they would be internal ones along the lines of some paramilitary types, and most especially all the smugglers …

    Who knows, maybe I should make some effort at some point in my life to make such a glorious, legendary and sorely needed work about the truth of the 1990’s and near present day events.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  64. Anyway, eternal glory to General Ratko Mladic and Ljubisa Savic “Mauzer” of the Panther Guard!

    • Replies: @Malacaay
  65. Also, the simplest, shortest and yet most accurate summary of the past 500 years of Serb history possible.

  66. Yet another debunking of the endless litany of lies, falsehoods and smear campaigns against the Serb people:

    https://arquivo.pt/wayback/20091001191451/http://www.zmag.org/znet/viewArticle/5892

    If anyone cares, of course …

  67. anonlb says:
    @peterAUS

    Serbians allways had been “pro west”, and still they aret: pro french, pro brithish and pro american. This gives them powerfull german enemies, end enemity of german satelites(hungarians, bulgarians, croatians, albanians, …).
    Before WW1 serbian state was most of the time Austrian satelite with huge freemason and british influence. Fench and british plan was to create buffer state hostile to russian and german interest( Poland on Balkan) wich will unite Balkan slavs. All this started with ‘Iliria’ created by Napoleon and continued with Srebian authonomy in Ottoman empire (just read original version of so called ‘serbian national program’ Garashanin Nachertanie written by two polish masons), with logical finalle in Yugoslavia state.
    During hungarian revolutiin 1848 serbian masons even tried to offer crown to croatian general Ban Jelacic and create slavic state which will include slavic part of Hungary, Serbia, Bosnia and Montenegro, but he turn them down and stayed loyal to Austrian crown. Only part of serbians which was pro Russia was Montenegro, but this influence was in direct proportion to amount of gold sent every year.
    Things started to change with 1903 coup in serbia when pro Austrian Obrenovic dinasty is toppled and installed freemason and more pro russia Karadjordjevic dynasty.
    But final ‘pro russian’ stance was forced by Stalin invasion of Serbia proper and installement of comunist Tito regime. There was huge prurge of serbian inteligentsia comparable to Katyn in Poland, new ‘elite’ in Serbia is imposed mostly from mongenegrins, serbs and croats from Croatia and Bosnia.
    It was root of serbian catastrophe during dissolution of Yugoslavia: so called serbian ‘elite’ never have real serbian interest in mind, some of them naturally sided with Croatians, Bosniaks and Albanians (Latinka Perovic cited above from Montenegro for example), Miloshevic tried to be new Tito, and another main reason for collapse was unwilingness of serbians from Serbia proper to fight for Yugoslavia. Biggest losers was serbs from Croatia and Montenegro, but this can be some kind of carmic justice.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  68. Milan says:

    I appreciate Sakers analyses but for this one I would say is superficial, totally biased and onesided. (The documentary about Draza M. is pure propaganda ignoring many true facts and the views of more competent people). Let me state a few facts:

    – Serbs are freedom loving people and they can find a lot of true heroes in their history (Draza doesn’t come here)
    – Today the Serb celebrate 75th anniversary of the liberation of capital Belgrade in WWII; it was liberated by Tito’s partisans and Soviet Red Army on October 20, 1944.
    – About that time Draza fought along with the Germans to prevent the advance of Partisans toward Belgrade
    – When defeated, Draza and his troops (20,000) left Serbia along with the Germans
    – Draza didn’t obey the order of his king Peter II to come under the command of Marshal Tito and participate in the final push to liberate the rest of Yugoslavia (he didn’t participate in liberation of Yugoslavia at all)
    – A year before that, at the Teheran Conference, Roosevelt, Churchill and Stalin ejected him and his Chetniks (Yugoslav Army in the Fatherland) from the Allied forces and recognized Tito’s partisans as the only true and valuable anti-fascist force in Yugoslavia
    – Main reason for that decision were negative reports of the British military missions, who were with Draza since 1941, about military worthiness of his units, as well as the fact that Draza personally fought against Tito’s partisans at Neretva river, along with Italian, German occupiers and Croat Nazi-Ustashas.
    – While being idle towards Germans, his Chetnik commanders cooperated with Italians, Germans and Croat Nazi in fighting partisans
    – the Allied knew about horrible crimes his troops committed against Muslims in Bosnia and pro-partisan civilians in Serbia
    – At the end of war, his people, as armed groups, saved 500 allied pilots, (while Partisans, as Allied force, saved 1,500 of them)
    – After the war he was tried and condemned to death as collaborator of occupiers, and for crimes against civilians.
    – Recently he was ‘rehabilitated’ for technicalities, e.g. not having time to organize better defense. (The same claim had the defense of the German generals at the Nuremberg trial, but were rejected.)

    To conclude: Serbia has many true patriots and great military commanders whom to look at as inspiration in building its future. Draza Mihailovic was a looser and incapable commander, and his troops shame to the people.

    (For Saker: Being a royalist who didn’t obey his king, being a royalist who screw up the kingdom, being ‘white’ to be defeated by ‘reds’, how come you see some glory is that).

  69. This book may be of interest. It was written by the British Intelligence agent stationed with Drazha and describes his frustration with Churchill’s policy of supporting Tito’s partisans.

    • Replies: @Milan
  70. @TheTotallyAnonymous

    The antagonists would be just as much all the external enemies of the Serb people (NATO, US officials, “certain tribesmen”, Germany, Vatican, Croats, Bosnian Muslims and etc.)

  71. @peterAUS

    It is the Saker after all and most of his stuff does end up in more prominent view. Surprisingly, more of Andre Vitchek’s articles are getting top billing too, although his writings seem to be just a string of repetitive emotional slogans with little except some personal anecdotal experiences to back it up. Saker, on the other hand, does offer plenty of information and data one can learn from, and goes into detailed analyses, sometimes too detailed and long-winded.

    BTW Medvedev just attended a military parade in Belgrade to celebrate its liberation in 1944 during WWII by the Red Army and Tito’s Partisan units.

    https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-s-medvedev-attends-military-parade-in-belgrade/30225259.html

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  72. Why this topic, which can be of interest only to a few individuals from former Yugoslavia?

    And the author’s thesis is, to be maximally benevolent- ludicrous. Draža Mihailović, Serbian colonel & the commander of rag-tag “Army” of Četniks, or as Serbs like to call it, “Yugoslav Army in the Fatherland” is an insignificant figure even for contemporary Serbs, lat alone for other surrounding peoples.

    Croats, Bosnian Muslims, Albanians, …loathe & despise him and basically don’t care about him; he’s a history’s footnote. Serbs are divided about his role: some glorify him, while others are strongly opposed to his cult, which has grown recently among some of his followers.

    What, anyway, Mihailović, does stand for?

    He was a professional officer during royal Yugoslavia & later glamorized for his role in early uprising against Germans, which took place in parts of Serbia & Montenegro. This revolt, where Četniks collaborated with Communist Partisans, was swiftly crushed by third-level German occupation forces & Mihailović retreated into passivity (which was, by the way, a wise move since German policy was ruthless & Serbian armed resistance would have resulted only in mass losses of Serbian population without any visible effect).

    So, from 1941- 1945, he was mostly hiding in some godforsaken shitholes & trying to unify a pan-Serbian forces that would, he and his ideological supervisors thought, create a greater Serbia within a new Yugoslavia (the restitution of Yugoslavia was decided by the Allies to take place after Hitler’s defeat). In the meantime, Mihailović collaborated, to various extent, with Italians, Germans, even with NDH (Independent State of Croatia, essentially a Nazi-Fascist puppet) in order to achieve his goals.

    His army was, probably, the worst looking army in WW 2- bearded, fugly, smelly, …basically a bunch of stinking deranged cutthroats. When they engaged in real battles, either with Partisans or with NDH regular forces- they always lost:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Case_White

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lijev%C4%8De_Field

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Knin

    So- what does he stand for?

    The idea of Greater Serbia, which would incorporate all of Montenegro, Macedonia, Bosnia & Herzegovina & perhaps 60-80% of Croatia. Other than that- what his followers have to offer?

    Socially, culturally, economically, politically?

    Nothing.

    So, this article is just a waste of anyone’s time.

    • Agree: silviosilver
  73. anonlb says:
    @Milan

    To make things short: in Teheran conference Yugoslavia was given to Stalin and Greece to Americans to liberate. Anti-comunist fractions in Yugoslavia lost big time, similar as pro-comunist fractions in Greece.

    When soviets invaded Serbia they mobilized and armed huge number of military age mens (~800k) for Tito’s army, some of them exChetniks). Before soviet invasion Tito’s partizan forces was ragtag army incpable to even enter Serbia proper teritory.

    • Replies: @Epigon
    , @Milan
  74. Epigon says:
    @Milan

    Why are you spreading obvious nonsense? At which point was JVuO/Mihailovich collaborating with Germans?
    Is that the reason they offered the SAME bounty for him and Tito, 100 000 gold Reichsmarks? Is that the reason Germans shot thousands of Serbs for being “Draza Mihailovich sympathizers” as part of reprisals in 1942/1943 in Serbia.
    Regarding Chetniks, several towns in Serbia were liberated by Soviets and Chetniks side-by-side in 1944.

    Fuck off, vermin.

    • Agree: TheTotallyAnonymous
    • Replies: @Milan
  75. Epigon says:

    Tito’s partisans didn’t liberate Belgrade, cut the crap everyone. Red Army liberated the city, fought German forces and went on.
    Commisars and Communists then entered the city and murdered thousands of people, among them WW1 war decorated heroes and officers.

    There was not a single military success achieved by Tito. Nor was there any presence of Yugocommunist Partisans in Serbia following their betrayal in the Uzice Republic aftermath. 1942-1944 no Commies in Serbia at all. Once the Anglo Freemason puppet “king” proclaimed COMMUNISTS to be lawful resistance at the urging of his British masters, most of Chetniks in Serbia came under Tito command in 1944 and 1945.

  76. Epigon says:

    This is the reason I dislike getting results for Ctrl+F “Serb” on this site.

    Instead of focusing on my comment with EXACT numbers, census data and perhaps building on it by going back to 1910, 1900, 1856, 1846 data – arbitrary nonsense, rants and Croat bullshit peddling takes place.

    I genuinely don’t understand people who decide to ignore HARD facts, primary evidence and instead focus on opinions and stories.

    • Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous
  77. Wonderful article, Saker, except your “apology” to modern Communists. I work in a place where there are plenty of them and they have not changed at all. Perhaps they are a bit more gutless but they are still vicious, resentful, envious common criminals. Hang every last one of them.

  78. Epigon says:
    @anonlb

    Except Yugoslavia was given to British, which is obvious in the way RKKA entered Yugoslavia, liberated Belgrade, turned around and proceeded towards Budapest and Vienna.
    Never approaching Adriatic, never coming anywhere near to material support of AngloAmerican Allies to Tito. They were using British uniforms, Western weapons, western radios, western ammo.

    Further reinforced by events of 1948, massive Western support for Yugoslavia, donations, loans, production licences, tech transfers when it was useful as part of Kennan doctrine. Westinghouse delivered a whole nuclear power plant, as well, to Yugoslavia, at the height of Cold War.

    Yugoslavia was in 1950s rolling around in M4 and M47 tanks, M36 TDs, flying P-47, F-84, F-86 planes, using Rolls-Royce Viper engine and its derivatives as late as 1980s for military aircraft.

  79. Malacaay says:
    @Epigon

    Look at that, Serbo Epi-Gone howling, shrieking, screaming and yelping about his Serbois being ethnically cleansed. What about your ethnic cleaning Serbo? There were over 250.000 Croats living in today lands of Republic of Serbska before the war, less than 5.000 remained today. There were 157.000 Croats in Serbia before, about 50.000 remained. Have you ever seen us crying and yelping or asking for reparation or compensation because of it, hmm? No. But Serbo is always wailing, always trying to gain some benefit for his own misdeeds. Bosnians too ethnically cleansed Serbois (and us Croats to some extent during the war), and Serbs ethnically cleansed Bosnians. But have we ever howled, cried or lament because of it? And your numeros are wrong. There are 186.000 Serbs in Croatia and very little in Herzegovina (2013 statistics). Remember, there is still 130.000 Serbs more in Croatian lands than there are Croats in Serbian lands. But we never tried to colonize Serbian lands, whereas Serbois ever tried to colonize us. No wander you wrought much hate and enmity against yourself. I don’t blame you though. You only did what is in nature of humanoids to do. As for starting the war…

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Croatian_independence_referendum

    … you see that, 94% of Croats supported independence, separation and end of Serbo colonization in former Yugoslavia. 95% of Slovenians voted for separation and the end of Serboslavia. 99% of Bosnians and Croats in Bosnia and Herzegovina voted for the end (Serbs I think didn’t participate, they boycotted the vote). Serbois just thought Yugoslavia was theirs (just like the 1st one, Karadjordjevic’s kingdom) and they were free to colonize others. Serbois reaped whirlwind. Nomads just think they can come and steal from us whatever they wish. Or colonize, take for themselves. It’s the same with Sarmatian Serbois, Turks or Tatars who call themselves Russkies. The same behavior.

  80. Antiwar7 says:
    @peterAUS

    You use Wikipedia as a reference?

    For controversial history involving warfare?

    Not a good idea.

    “Wikipedia: Rotten to the Core” by Helen Buyniski https://link.medium.com/ax3GdRdtW0

  81. @Milan

    About that time Draza fought along with the Germans to prevent the advance of Partisans toward Belgrade

    If you check the link I gave earlier about the pro-Nazi White Russian Protection Corps in Serbia it states, regarding actions in 1944:

    The 4th Regiment fought in the Čačak area from 27 October to 2 November. It faced the Red Army and the Chetnik 2nd Ravna Gora Corps before being overpowered and forced to abandon the city. The Chetniks captured 339 of its soldiers and turned them over to the Soviets

    So if anything the Chetniks were also aligned with the Soviet Red Army. During the course of the war there were all sorts of mini alliances and cooperation between various smaller units but to come out claiming that Drazha was a German collaborator is a post-war Titoist lie. They don’t give this to Allies’ traitors:

    • Replies: @Milan
  82. Malacaay says:
    @Korenchkin

    Clown, Serbs came as refugees fleeing before the onslaught of the Turks. They never assimilated into Dalmatians. Always kept their own identity and culture. And Italics have nothing “theirs” on the eastern side of Mare Adriaticum, clown. Eastern coast of Mare Adriaticum is Illyrian land. Ours, you Tatar impostor. Where did you get an idea that you are Slavo-Nordic Russian because you speak Slavic lingua? Thieves, impostors, mass murders, rapists, plunderers, culture destroyers, nation wreckers… there is not a single good or nice thing one can say about you nomads.

    • Replies: @Jazman
  83. Malacaay says:
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    WTF are you on about Serbo? This is why none of unions with Serbo dogs were ever possible. Dalmatia is Croatian and Croatia is Illyrian. Dalmatia was always Illyrian, Sarmatian nomad. Italians deserve Italia which is the land of Apennine peninsula. That’s what was ever Italic. Italics have nothing on eastern coast of Mare Adriaticum, land of Illyrians, just like you Sarmatian Serbois don’t. Remember that Serbo. I suggest you start moving toward your native lands in the Caspian&Black Sea region. That’s where Serbois belong to.

  84. Malacaay says:
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    Vukovar is Croatia, Serbo. You better learn that. In Croatia no Serbo or Serbian anything will ever be accepted. You have no place here. Not here. Not in Montenegro, our ancient Dioclean Dalmatia. Not in Albania. From Rovinj and Umag in the north to Corfu in the south, Serbois are persona non grata. Who made all of Dalmatia to hate you so? You are even more hated than Italians, and those thieves too had colonizing dreams.

    • Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous
  85. Malacaay says:
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    You see how great singers we have, Serbo?

    • Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous
  86. @Malacaay

    When Serbs came to those lands there was no Croatian state, just Hungary
    And had it not been for the Serbs you would be either part of Italy or Hungary, there would be no Croach state

    • Agree: Denis
    • Disagree: Malacaay
    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    , @Malacaay
  87. If you kill one of ours, we kill one hundred of yours is a very interesting philosophy. Does any regime still practice it? And Saker, where does China fit into your Sunday morning kumbaya between Russia and Serbia?

  88. anonlb says:
    @Malacaay

    Tell this to italians. Dalmatians are morlocks, ‘ilyria’ and ‘iliryians’ was Napoleon’s pipe dream.

    • Replies: @Malacaay
  89. Be as it may- Homintern seems to be more successful than Komintern. WWDS- What Would Draža Say (of this fag invasion) :

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  90. Anonymous[277] • Disclaimer says:

    I wish English people had an ounce of the self-belief and spirit that all the ethnicities of the Balkans seem to. English people are just meek and cowardly, they have no sense of history or pride in their nation nor any attachment to the land. The English are absolute materialists, rootless people.

  91. @Malacaay

    There were over 250.000 Croats living in today lands of Republic of Serbska before the war, less than 5.000 remained today.

    Everyone who knows much of anything knows that Croats in Bosnia were mildly murdered and ethnically cleansed by Muslims, not Serbs. Serbs actually saved many Bosnian Croats in 1992 from being mass slaughtered and sent them to Croatia to live in peace. Even Bosnian Croats can confirm the truth of this.

    There were 157.000 Croats in Serbia before, about 50.000 remained.

    Proof? Evidence? Sources? Plus, your definition involves the fake Yugoslav Republic borders of AVNOJ that have nothing to do with the real and legitimate basis of ancient ethnic borders. Not that you can actually provide any evidence for your ludicrous claim, anyway …

    … you see that, 94% of Croats supported independence, separation

    You really are a retard lol. This literally proves that Croats engaged in violent and armed separatism. Croat whining about this war is cowardly and effeminate. The side that engages in violent separatism against the given authority, constitution and ruling leadership of the time is always the one that starts a war. Always. You cowards may as well claim that King George III of Britain attacked the USA in 1776, that Abraham Lincoln and the Union attacked the Confederacy which is how the US Civil War started, or even that in 1804 the Turks attacked Serbs and started the 1st Serbian Uprising.

    Can you even process through your thick skull how insane and detached from reality the Croat garbage you’re shilling for sounds?

    Serbois reaped whirlwind. Nomads just think they can come and steal from us whatever they wish. Or colonize, take for themselves.

    What colonization??? There literally was no Serb colonization in Communist Yugoslavia from 1945-1989 …

    Plus, how are Serbs supposed to steal from Croats when Croatia has literally never even existed on the world map in all of human history up until the 20th century despite Croat efforts to falsify history by inventing things like Kang Zvonimir? How can one steal from something that doesn’t even exist? Or more specifically, from the fake and artificial entity of Croatia that is stealing land, history, culture, industry and wealth from Serbs?

    Croats are the ones stealing everything from Serbs, not the other way around …

    • Replies: @Malacaay
    , @silviosilver
  92. Milan says:
    @Commentator Mike

    Thank you Mike, I’ll try to buy that book to read it. As I understand it the British supported Draza for 3 years, until the Teheran Conference, then abandoned him. Why? The British military missions had reported Draza didn’t have a good, organized and experienced army capable to liberate Yugoslavia (Tito had it). It wasn’t even worthwhile to send any additional military aid to them. (They sent all aid to Tito’ army). I believe that Roosevelt, Churchill and Stalin knew what they were doing.

    FYI before taking this decision gen Wilson, commander of Allied forces at the Mediterranean, in accordance with Churchill, ordered Draza, a subordinate commander, to destroy two bridges in Serbia of great value to Germans (used to transport troops to Greece). That order was sent in purpose to test whom Draza was for, for Allies or Germans. Draza was unwilling to follow the order and it was the end for him and his army.

  93. Malacaay says:

    I’ve just noticed the lies this Slacker propagandist is peddling here. 800.000 Serbois killed just in Jasenovac. Ahahahaha. What a clown. In 1941 according to census 703.000 Serbs lived in Croatia and 1.234.000 in Bosnia Herzegovina. 1.9 million Serbs altogether. According to communist 1948. Yugoslav census, 543.795 Serbs were in Croatia and 1.136.116 in Bosnia and Herzegovina. That’s 1.67 million Serbos. Translated it shows deficit of 230.000 Serbos. All together according to the communist stats, 509 849 persons from Yugoslavia died in WW2, which means Serbois made less than half of all deaths in WW2. But Serbois somehow put their death toll at “1.7 million dead Serbois” (800.000 of which just perished in Jasenovac). ahahahaha According to Coatian stats, less than 50k people perished in Jasenovac, and 9.000 in Stara Gradiska, the 2nd largest concentration camp… and those numeros include Croats who were against NDH regime as well. Somehow they all became “Serbs” and the numero got inflated 16 times. As I said, this character Slacker is a 5th rate propagandist.

  94. @Malacaay

    Vukovar is Croatia, Serbo. You better learn that. In Croatia no Serbo or Serbian anything will ever be accepted. You have no place here.

    Vukovar is an ancient Serbian city. Just because it is under foreign occupation does not mean it may not able to return to its rightful owner in the future.

    Plus, you better learn Ovcara Field. The justice delivered there will happen again many times over. I promise you that. I also promise you that a time will come when Serb tanks will return to Slavonia. Serb tanks will also reach Dalmatia and the Adriatic Coast. They won’t sissy around like the JNA did with Dubrovnik in 1991 (Dubrovnik was basically not devastated at all and literally remained almost untouched, it only suffered a few pot shots, despite the Croat-NATO propaganda otherwise). Many an Ovcara Field will be made in the future with your kind Malacaay, sooner or later.

    Not here. Not in Montenegro, our ancient Dioclean Dalmatia. Not in Albania. From Rovinj and Umag in the north to Corfu in the south, Serbois are persona non grata.

    LOL

    Out of genuine curiosity, explain your silly Croat territorial claims on Montenegro. Just for fun’s sake 😛

    Otherwise, seriously, get lost you cancerous LARPer.

  95. Malacaay says:
    @anonlb

    I tell it to all: Dalmatians are Illyrians, just as all Croats are. As for Napoleon, clown, Illyrians are natives of the eastern coast of Mare Adriaticum and our Haemus Mons peninsula. We lived here thousands of years before some le French character was hatched in Gallia.

  96. @TheTotallyAnonymous

    Out of genuine curiosity, explain your silly Croat territorial claims on Montenegro. Just for fun’s sake 😛

    Also, just for curiosity’s sake, explain your even sillier Croat territorial claims on Analbania, Malacaay.

  97. @Bardon Kaldian

    Even though this one is a very short 1 hour version that is a simplistic and incomplete summary of Serb history, it is much more accurate, honest and truthful than the Croat garbage you are peddling.

    Yawn …

  98. Malacaay says:
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    Why trying to lie about sometging so obvious as statistical numbers, hmm, clown? There are no Croats living in Republic of Serbska. They were all ethnically cleansed. Less than 5.000 remained from almost 250.000 living in Posavina and other parts of Republica Serbska. That’s okay. We didn’t protest. We cleansed you too. The point is that no equilibrium is reached yet, which means, as I already stated you imbecile, that around 130.000 more Serbs live in our lands than Croats in Serbian lands. Croats live in Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina, mainly in Herzegovina. Bosnians ethnically cleansed our people from parts of Bosnia, yes. Did we cry about it? No. Have we asked for compensation? No. And no Serbo colonization? ahahahahaha Serbo dog, I the very numeros tell the story, let alone your behavior. You didn’t want to steal anything, not here not from the Greeks, not colonizing Macedonians and trying to do so with Diocleans. ahahahaha This is not a Disney wolrd, Serbo. We are not in a cartoon.

  99. Malacaay says:
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    Yes, you didn’t manage to launch enough projectiles onto Dubrovnik because Diocleans (Montenegrins) were managing the operation and they didn’t want to burn their own kind. Of course you would. I’ve no doubt about it. Neither should you expect any mercy from us. For Serbs there is none. No nomad is worthy of mercy. You must all be slaughtered and expelled. Your crimes against our realms and civilizations, on Haemus Mons peninsula like in Anatolia where your Turko kind was operating, is gargantuan. Death is too light a punishment for you.

    As for claims, we have no claims on Dioclea or Montenegro as you might know it. It’s part of our realm. Our region. Diocleans are our Dalmatian people. Illyrians. You have claims in Dioclea because they are of Orthodox religion and “belong to Serbo Orthodox Church” according to the orthodox rites as you say. You also have the same claims on Macedonia too. On the same grounds: them “belonging to Serbo Orthodox Church thus are Serbois.” But they are not of Serbo Orthodox Church are they. There ought to be Illyrian Church of Nicean Christo faith founded.

  100. Milan says:
    @Commentator Mike

    Liberation of Belgrade: There are German documents about talks held with main Draza’s commanders in Serbia,(e.g. Kalabic), about how to fight advancing partisans of Peko Dapcevic. Chetnik commanders asked that Draza’s name was not mention in any document (!?). Germans promised cooperation, arms and munition but asked that all operation be commanded by German officers. They agreed to coordinate actions.

    As much as I know, on German side, there were two ‘Russian’ Nazi troops in Serbia and Bosnia, they were White Guard and general Vlasov army. They committed many crimes everywhere. After the radio address of King Peter II, in august 1944, when he called on Draza, Chetniks and quislings to join Tito’s army and help liberate the country, Chetniks were demoralized and disoriented. Some Chetnik commanders joined the Partisans, other stayed with Draza and continued to fight the Partisans. Some of his commanders wanted to surrender not to Yugoslav partisans but to advancing Red Army, as another allied army. So, the situation was confusing for many Chetniks and, in the case you describe, to the White Guard.
    The truth is that among the ordinary Serb people, from Chetnik or Partisan regions, there was a strong pro-Russian feeling; only the Chetnik royalists feared the Red Army and communists, not common soldiers and lower level officers.

    The Order: There was elections in the USA in 1948. (Truman was re-elected unexpectedly). American Serbs from Chicago, pro-Chetniks, lobbied Truman asking this order to be given to Draza, and promising that all Serbs would vote for him. Both sides fulfilled their promises. (Order in March, elections in November of 1948.)

    • Replies: @Malacaay
  101. Malacaay says:
    @Korenchkin

    Just fantasize, Tatar. It’s a disgrace that Huns should still have their dominion in Carpathian basin.

  102. Milan says:
    @anonlb

    At the time of Teheran conference Tito’s army counted 300,000 soldiers, (Nov 1943), well organized, well commanded, highly motivated. In Serbia Red Army didn’t do mobilisation, Partisans did, Koca Popovic created 5 divisions, but many Serbs joined Peko Dapcevic’s divisions too. Tito’s army of 800,000 was all Yugoslav partisan troops, from Montenegro to Slovenia.

    • Replies: @Malacaay
  103. Malacaay says:
    @Milan

    Tito’s partisans committed most crimes than anyone else. I heard the first thing they did when they entered Zagreb was to murder all Ustashe orphans from some of community which was housing them there. Partisans killed hundreds of thousands people. Tito was the 10th war criminal of 20th century in the company of Pol Pot, Stalin, Lenin et al. Of course Obama killed more than Pol Pot and Tito combined, and was even awarded with a Nobel Prize for Peace. Tito was a war criminal who ordered mass killings of children even. You came to a wrong place to seek unitary position. There are those “pride” homo parades still left for people like you, godless, liberal, despicable kind.

  104. Malacaay says:
    @Milan

    War criminal Tito who killed myriads more innocent people than Draza Mihailovic and Ante Pavelic put together? Shame he wasn’t awarded with Nobel Prize for Peace just like Obongo, that notorious amero war criminal, wouldn’t you say?

  105. Anon[421] • Disclaimer says:

    We have Lindsey Graham, whose loyalties seem split between Trump and the ghost of
    John McCain, exerting great influence in American politics. Yet there are so many
    scholarly articles on this site which dedicate much space to the arcane dynamics of Balkan politics.
    Is it that if Americans don’t know this history we are bound to repeat something?
    Yes it was good to find out that German soldiers in WW2 were underrated, but we have
    a coup going on in DC that has even more relevance. The best promise Trump made
    campaigning was to make peace with Russia and I’m livid that he has been thwarted.
    Furthermore, Unz review deserves an internet pulitzer for shining a light on Mossad.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  106. Milan says:
    @Epigon

    I think I provided answers to you questions in a reply to Correspondent Mike.

    After Germans defeated Partisans and Chetniks in the fall of 1941, Partisans went to Bosnia to continue fighting occupiers and Ustashas. In the same time Draza disassembled his troops and tried to incorporate as many as possible of them into Voluntary Corps of the quisling Milan Nedic who fought against Partisans. (Mihailovic called that the ‘exploitation of the occupiers’. ‘They dress, feed and arm our troops, we fight partisans, but one day when English come, we will turn our arms against Germans’. Great, but the only problem was the English never came, Partisan won the war, Draza never turned the arms against the Germans! (Just was helping them to fight Partisans).
    When he fled to Montenegro, he was under protection of Pavle Djurisic, who openly cooperated with Italian fascists. Djurisic recognized Draza as minister of defense and commander of JVuO, but somehow Djurisic didn’t want to obey Draza, a ‘great antifascist’! Then, Germans awarded Iron Cross to Pavle Djurisic and Lalatovic (?). For what? Fighting Germans?.
    Dalmatian Chetniks led by Dobro Jevdjevic also recognized Draza as Minster and Commander but openly cooperated with the Italian occupiers, particularly in the battle of Neretva.

    How Draza officers cooperated with Germans in the battle for Serbia I explained in a reply to Mike. Just to add one more thing, after being defeated in Serbia Draza’s JVuO, and troops of and quisling Nedic fled to Bosnia, along with the Germans from Serbia and German Army Group E. Partisans attacked them both on the way. When Chetniks ran out of ammunition, Germans would supply them (Vlasenica, Doboj).

    I believe that Draza tried to save his JVuO, but the war luck wasn’t on his side. He didn’t know how to win the war, but Marshal Tito knew it, even being in much worse position through most of the war. (Tito was fighting, Draza was waiting).

    • Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous
  107. peterAUS says:
    @Commentator Mike

    Aha…………………

    The net result is that more ignoramuses are likely to pass a comment, or two, while walking by to refill their glasses. Adds more white noise to the conversation.
    In practical terms just adds more skipping/fast scrolling.

    Anyway.

  108. peterAUS says:
    @anonlb

    O…………K.

    What’s your take on this fellow, then:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimitrije_Ljoti%C4%87

    • Replies: @anonlb
  109. peterAUS says:
    @Anon

    Is it that if Americans don’t know this history we are bound to repeat something?

    Yes, it is.
    Gets better: the mistake you’ve been making and, apparently, will keep making, will affect the rest of the World.
    Nice, a?

    Good news, of sort I guess, those mistakes are eternal. Your county is simply the latest in a long list of the same.
    The catch is, unfortunately, she could be the last. With the rest on this planet.
    Good for rats and cockroaches.

  110. It is good to see the honest hero Draza honored in this way.

    Vrati se vojvodo!
    Na Dinaru ponovo!

  111. @Bardon Kaldian

    Way of the world, eh? The NWO party programme … or … End of Days? The communists thought they’d rule forever too.

  112. FB says: • Website
    @Commentator Mike

    You’ve been making some good comments here Mike…

    …if some really tough law and order parties were to win elections in the West and start implementing serious anti-crime policies, as most of the Kosovar funding comes from drugs and human trafficking.

    Well…here’s the thing about that…the global narco business is hugely profitable to those that run it…namely some very serious and circumspect faction within the CIA and its close partners [these ‘intel’ services being in fact very far from monolithic…with incredibly compartmentalized structure]…

    And working closely with leading global organized crime networks, many of which are in fact run by former intel officers…this seems to be especially true of the Russian/Jewish mafia which seems to have had a revolving door arrangement with Russian intel, in much the way the MIC does here with former military brass…

    Now the main reason for having that huge income is not for the money itself, since these guys don’t have aspirations to be billionaires or to join the Davos club…

    They are players of a different sort…they wield power by using this crooked loot to actually control armed and very violent gangs that span the globe…known to the sheeple as so-called ‘terrorists’…

    Other gangs include those skinheads in Ukraine who seem to be a major force there…[where does their immense power come from…who is propping them up…they are not capable of that without assistance…same as the salafists and takfiris…]

    Just one for instance…the US military is now evacuating by helicopter ISIS ‘wives’ from the SDF makeshift prisons…they are to be kept in US mil facilities in Iraq…or so the story goes…

    Conveniently the Europeans have refused to take any of these ‘terrorists’ back where they can be duly processed by the law and order apparatus…one might reasonably ask…why not…what is afoot here…?

    So one has to wonder about how much hope we may have of law enforcement actually dismantling some of this business…much as they would like to [one presumes…]

    Why is Trump unable to get out of Afghanistan as he promised the people…?

    That’s just a step too far because it will topple the entire narco-terrorist enterprise…run by the most physically dangerous folks in the world…the story now is that there will be an indefinite US presence in Afghanistan…albeit ‘smaller’…

    The fact is that ‘terrorism’ has been an incredibly useful driver for nearly everything we have seen in the post Cold War period…how many trillions have been siphoned off into this manufactured ‘war on terrorism’…and who has skimmed the cream off the top of all of that…?

    Putin himself has stated very publicly that the Russians have iron-clad proof that the CIA was behind the massive Chechen terrorism of the 1990s…we see in Syria prima facie evidence of US openly supporting supposedly ‘moderate’ rebels…who then morph seamlessly into terrorists…

    The latest NYT reporting on this is quite hilarious…now that the US is leaving…those formerly grand ‘moderate rebels,’ now in the employ of Turkey, and being used to smash the Kurds…are suddenly turned magically back into the ‘terrorists’ they have always been…while actually being the very same people all along…

    Salim Idriss, now a Turkish ‘terrorist’ according to the latest bizarre twist by the corporate media…with John McCain back in the salad days of the Syrian ‘freedom fighters’…LOL…are we dizzy yet…

    Bernhard over at Moon of Alabama has just done a very nice job dismantling this latest farce…

    History as faked by the New York Times

    Now, [..] the sense of betrayal among the Kurds [..] is matched only by their outrage at who will move in: Turkish soldiers supported by Syrian fighters the United States had long rejected as extremists, criminals and thugs.

    Grandly misnamed the Syrian National Army, this coalition of Turkish-backed militias is in fact largely composed of the dregs of the eight-year-old conflict’s failed rebel movement.

    WOW…It’s actually quite funny how our leading ‘media’ take us for absolute morons that they can so brazenly turn their narrative on its head at the drop of a hat…not just once, but whenever it’s necessary…

    Kurds’ Sense of Betrayal Compounded by Empowerment of Unsavory Rivals

    Now just to bring this back around to the discussion of the former Yugoslavia…the situation is equally malleable as Syria or anyplace else that the Empire of Chaos operates…things are always in a state of flux…and that works to the advantage of the disruptors we know as the ‘deep state’…

    • Agree: Denis
  113. Dimitrije Ljotic was a Serbian Christian Nationalist version of Romania’s Corneliu Zelea Cordeanu, and like Codreanu he didn’t stand a chance. Wrong time wrong place, and his fierce anti-communism drove him to cooperate with the Nazis, as you know anyway from the wiki bio. He wrote a good condemnation of democratic politics – What We Are Fighting For:

    http://chnm.gmu.edu/history/faculty/kelly/blogs/h312/wp-content/sources/ljotic.pdf

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  114. peterAUS says:
    @Commentator Mike

    …Wrong time wrong place….

    Yes.
    As the main character of the article, some would say. Had, for example, Allies landed in Balkans……..
    War, fate, luck…….mice and men…..

    Serbs are in a peculiar position. At this stage ALL they need to do is to give Kosovo. Not have it taken away….give it. Themselves.
    Now, they didn’t do it under Ottomans. Or the Germans/Austrians. Or the Germans again. Or their own version of Communists.
    But now is the time……………………………………………or not.

    If not, well, what then? How? With what?

    I know that a LOT of people(s) would LOVE to have, see, Serbs doing it. Oh my….definitely.
    Some, though, wouldn’t. Not because of Serbs. Because of the principle.
    You take the founding myth of a nation/people and what have you left? Sounds familiar?

    Serbs, again, are mice in a laboratory.
    It started, of sort, with bombing ’99. “Humanitarian intervention”. Then, the lab graduated into the regime change. Then in deliveing their top people to the court. Then…..
    The name of the exercise: how to break a nation. Break, destroy..have it gone. That is The Game here. Well, at least for a couple of us reading/writing here anyway.

    So…if/when you break them….hehe…what’s the problem with breaking the rest? All of them. Work(ed) in lab.

    So, some of us wouldn’t like that. Not because of Serbs; because of the principle. Because if/when it works with them I am sure it will get (re)used later somewhere else. One by one…..

    Makes sense?

    Back to the article. The character from the article isn’t, definitely, the type. In my book anyway.
    I don’t know which one is, actually.

    More importantly, Serbs themselves don’t know. Promising, a?

  115. @peterAUS

    You take the founding myth of a nation/people and what have you left?

    What is the founding myth of, say, Danes? French? Italians? Czechs? Germans’..

    As far as I know, most peoples don’t have founding myths.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  116. peterAUS says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Yes………………………………………………………………………………….

    Well, after Serbs do as required let’s move Westwards.
    Croats should expunge Sziget, Jelacic and Starcevic from history books.O.K. choose just one to start with. Sziget, for example. Will be (re)used for the Siege of Vienna etc. You can’t have that shit. Can make adherents of a certain religion feeling unloved in Europe.

    Italians, just get rid of everything about Garibaldi.
    French, Joan of Arc, of course.
    Spanish, El Cid would be helpful. That “unloved” applies here too.

    That’s a warmup. The key prize is Americans, of course. Alamo. They are doing great work themselves about Columbus. Mayflower to come next. Ah, yes, Pearl Harbor too. One by one.

    Actually….hehe…the best would be to start with Exodus, actually. You get rid of that myth and all good. Oh…hahaha..how about that one starting with “H”?

    Now, about Kosovo. Nothing personal, mind you, but just have a feeling that Croats, of all people, aren’t really the best to offer advice there. History I guess.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    , @Malacaay
  117. anonlb says:
    @peterAUS

    Pro german fraction allways existed in serbian people, which is not suprising(significant part of serbians have germanic origins). German miners and mercenaries was common in midevial Serbia. Even those who despise germans respected them. WW1 was the first significant clash between serbians and germans in known history, but created huge greviances on both sides.
    Ljotic tried to create serbian version of fashizm even before WW2 but failed to achieve significant support. After H man conqrerd Yugoslavia he simple said that serbians will never have a state because only serbs in Balkan have kind of nationalizm which rivals germans and teritory of Serbia was too precious for Reich. Serbian populatiin was on the path of extinction or assimliation in german nation. Germans refused Pavelic attempt to solve serbian question in Croatia by expeling them to Serbia, and croats implemeted own version of ‘final solution”. Ljotic and other anti-comunist fractions prevented any significant comunist gain until soviet invasion. Even Tito sabotaged comunist organization in Belgrade in order to eliminate future competition. Ljotic was only nazi colaborator in Serbia by his own will.
    Today Serbia is in similar situation as in WW2, german agenda for serbs is only imposed by americans. At least they allowed expulsion of serbs from Croatia(and prevented new version of final solution) and pupet state stauts for time being. This time there is no shortage of colaborators, but few of them stated Ljotic as role model.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  118. @peterAUS

    peterAUS,

    Definitely, that’s where they try things out and then proceed with it elsewhere. We’ve seen that with their subsequent wars in the Middle East, colour revolutions all over the place, even ethnic separation in Ukraine.

    There is however some hypocrisy in the West’s approach (well of course they’re hypocrites!) as in Yugoslavia they backed the nationalists to break it up and promoted the separation of ethnicities so that they don’t carry on killing each other (and that seems reasonable that they should be separated if they can’t live together peacefully), yet in the West they’re promoting the far more pernicious multiracialism and multiculturalism, and are strictly opposed to any separation along ethnic, racial or religious lines in their own societies. In fact in those ex-Yugo countries, except during periods of war, it is relatively peaceful and safe. In peace time, even in areas where there are still people of different religions and ethnicities, there is very little interethnic violence, nothing like in the West where the muslims, Pakis, Arabs are blacks are robbing, raping and murdering whites almost daily. Yes sometimes people get beaten up by haters for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, but the level of vicious violent hate resulting from this multiculturalism as you see in the West is unheard of. Compare for example the massacre at Markale market in Sarajevo during wartime to the Nice and Paris attacks in peacetime. And has anybody added up the numbers of whites killed and raped by coloureds in EU and US over the let’s say past 10, 20, or 30 years and compared it to similar numbers during some of those interetnhic wars elsewhere? So they call it peace – and if this is peace then what will war be like? And despite that, they’re just pumping in more and more of these outsiders into the West and telling the people that they have to accept them, yet elsewhere, like in the Third World countries, they’re encouraging separatism and the right of peoples to their own ethnic states. We’ll see how this all works out and if they’ll all live like one big happy family.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Malacaay
  119. Tusk says:

    While I do think the Serbs haven’t been treat fairly, lies like “there were “57 different ways of killing the victims”. “I am sure that there weren’t as many in Auschwitz. It’s a world record.” only make Serbs look like fools if they accept this as truth.

  120. @peterAUS

    These are not founding myths. In Serbian case, it is a story of Kosovo battle where prince Lazar chose Kingdom of Heaven; here we have a truly mythic story linking death & (heavenly) resurrection, and, along with these stories, a few epic poems where mythology was fully integrated with other grand themes ( I think mythographers had written about it).

    English, for instance, don’t have anything similar- Arthur & comp. are just cultural stories, and historical are those about battles with French; Russians have a story about Kulikovo, but this is not anything mythological; Garibaldi is an Italian hero, but Italians have a more splendid history going back a few centuries before Garibaldi etc.

    Real myths have only old peoples (Chinese, Jews, ..) or backward tribes (various Siberian peoples).

    • LOL: FB
    • Replies: @FB
    , @peterAUS
  121. Malacaay says:
    @peterAUS

    What “Sziget,” half-wit? Hunnic city of Sziget holds no historical or otherwise importance, interest, influence, relevance or value for us. There was just an important battle there which led to death of lots of Turks, and although killings Turks is always a great festival of joy, pride, delight, mirth and satisfaction — it was not our city which was defended but Hunnic. We only fought with the Huns against common Turkish Muslime blight. That’s all. See how many Turks were slain there.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Szigetvár

  122. FB says: • Website
    @Bardon Kaldian

    So let me get this straight…’King Arthur’ who never actually existed is not a myth…but Prince Lazar who was a real person is a myth…

    Right then…what time shall I come by tomorrow morning so we can ride our unicorns to work together at the Smile Factory…?

    hi hoe, hi hoe, it’s off to work we go…la la la la…tra la la la…la la laaah la laaah…

  123. peterAUS says:
    @anonlb

    This time there is no shortage of colaborators, but few of them stated Ljotic as role model.

    Well, just a thought.
    Looks like you guys know rather well what you don’t want/don’t like. That’s easy.

    Making that important step into knowing what you do want would be a good idea. Harder.

    And, immediately after how to do it. Much harder.

    The current strategy feels……..tenuous. Waiting for The Empire to collapse/dissolve could prove……….difficult. For you I mean, on the ground there. Saker and his cohorts are good. Hehe…especially from USA itself.
    Those living in Northern Kosovo/South Serbia could feel that waiting even more….unpleasant?

    We’ll see, I guess.

    • Replies: @anonlb
  124. peterAUS says:
    @Commentator Mike

    There is however some hypocrisy in the West’s approach (well of course they’re hypocrites!) as in Yugoslavia they backed the nationalists to break it up and promoted the separation of ethnicities so that they don’t carry on killing each other (and that seems reasonable that they should be separated if they can’t live together peacefully), yet in the West they’re promoting the far more pernicious multiracialism and multiculturalism, and are strictly opposed to any separation along ethnic, racial or religious lines in their own societies

    Well, yes and no.
    They definitely go against Serb nationalism. They carefully manage Croatian nationalism and let the rest, Albanian in particular, to run wild.
    My take is simple. Friedman. I suggest reading some of his stuff. Machiavellian. I tend to agree.

    So they call it peace – and if this is peace then what will war be like?

    Corps sized units, employing mechanized forces supported by regimental sized artillery units. Concentration camps. Mass executions of non-combatants and POWs. Mass population displacements with minimal possessions. Mass organized looting and destruction of property.
    Make no mistake, what’s happening in the West now is a joke compared to what was happening in ex-Yu.
    At the same time, well, there are some positives in such scenarios, I guess. Let’s skip them for now. Could make the majority of readers here uncomfortable.

    We’ll see how this all works out and if they’ll all live like one big happy family.

    As I said a lot of times here: the end game is some mix of South Africa, India and Brasil. Save some miracle I’d put my money on it.

    • Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous
  125. peterAUS says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    These are not founding myths.

    O.K.

    Let’s keep the eye on the ball here:

    Real myths have only old peoples (Chinese, Jews, ..)

    Haha…interesting pick, especially the later. Anyway, why don’t we try to stick to the only rule which matters, here:
    Say, for Serbs (they are the topic I guess, at this table): “what is good for Jews” simply change, just a little bit into “what is good for Serbs”.
    “They” have Exodus. Fine “We” have Kosovo. Not fine? Naturally…..hehe…
    How about the second?
    They have “H”. “We” have Jasenovac.WHAT?!?! NO. HELL NO! I know. Naturally too. “What’s good for Croats”. Simple rule.

    So, goose/gander doesn’t apply, Naturally. Jovi/bovi, some animals are more equal. Anyway.

    Khm….speaking of the second it appears that Muslims in Bosnia have Srebrenica.

    Anyway.
    Ah, yes, as far as Croats are concerned one other simple rule applies too…hehe..:”what’s bad for Serbs”. Hence, how to put it politely, well, you, of all people here, wouldn’t be the first to seek advice from the Serb side.

    All good.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  126. HB says:
    @peterAUS

    Source?

    Really??? Only source in English language matters?

    Do you know who Marko Mesic was?

    Just to establish your knowledge of History:

    When was the term “Byzant” or “Byzantin Empire” invented, in what century?

  127. HEREDOT says:

    I love the Russians, but I do not take the Russian troll, called saker, seriously.

  128. Wally says:
    @silviosilver

    from Saker:

    Dr. Gideon Greiff, Israel’s foremost expert on Auschwitz, whose recently published book “Jasenovac, the Auschwitz of the Balkans”, details the killing of over 800,000 Serbs, in the Jasenovac death camp. According to Dr. Greiff, Jasenovac, one of many Vatican sanctioned death camps, in the Nazi puppet state of Croatia, there were “57 different ways of killing the victims”.

    Poor hapless Saker, again.

    [MORE]

    – That’s the proven charlatan Zionist Gideon Greiff who has absolutely no proof for claims made about Auschwitz, it’s scientifically impossible ‘gas chambers’ and the laughably alleged 1,250,000,000 ‘murdered Jews’, or whatever the number is this week. None.
    UR is now loaded with irrefutable information which simply exposes the fraud of Auschwitz and the ridiculous “holocaust’ narrative.

    – And now we have proven shyster Greiff off buying votes for the fake “holocaust” while raking in more cash by doing 1st class suck-up job by making absurd claims about Jasenovac.

    – Jasenovac is just another ‘we’re victims’ scam.

    recommended:
    Croatia’s President Rejects “Six Million” Story, By Mark Weber : https://codoh.com/library/document/2371/?lang=en
    excerpt:

    Tudjman also writes in his book about Jasenovac, a concentration camp run by the wartime Croatian government. Orthodox historians have insisted for decades that “at least 700,000” people were killed there. According to an estimate cited by American Holocaust historian Nora Levin, for example, 770,000 Serbs, 40,000 Gypsies and 20,000 Jews were put to death in Jasenovac. (N. Levin, The Holocaust, 1973, p. 515.)
    Croats have long maintained that about 60,000 perished in the camp, but Tudjman reckons that even this figure is too high. The most probable figure, he maintains, is between 30,000 and 40,000. Moreover, he goes on, Jewish inmates were largely responsible for the killings there. (The New Republic, Nov. 25, 1991, pp. 16, 18.; Die Presse, Vienna, Jan. 28, 1992.)

    more:
    https://codoh.com/search/?sorting=relevance&q=Jasenovac+

  129. HEREDOT says:

    Russian agent saker another propaganda article

  130. anonlb says:
    @peterAUS

    Life in Balkan was always unpleasant. Things in Balkan are complicated because you never can bet in rational reaction from people. Most recent american idea for Balkan is to create some kind of ‘little shengen’ union between Serbia, Bosnia, Montenegro, Nort Macedonia, Kosovo and Albania, with open borders for workforce. This is some kind of compensation for those poor countries which will never be accepted in EU and will enable Britain to practice its Balkan games. It looks like final solution for serbian question, because serbs will become minority in no time, but will again all live in one country. The same can be said for albanian question. But this can backfire spectaculary as always in Balkan, my hope is that albanians will refuse it violently.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  131. Malacaay says:
    @Commentator Mike

    You will be separated soon enough, don’t worry. There is a threshold of endurance even for cattle. We have low, you have high. There was tremendous hate among various people constituting multicultural Yugoslavia, but there is no such hate in your kind even though you suffer from all those things you mentioned while we were not. Then there is that portfolio merchants like yourselves always cherish more than even your own health… or anything else. There is no scum as merchant scum, as the saying goes.

    There is no defying nature. The ancients knew that. Anyone can read Aristotle and find the proofs of it. Ancients were somewhat intelligent kind… nothing like you modern libtard fake westerners for sure. You are such abominations. All your civilizations will fall before long. It’s for the best that they do, for you have that anti-natural trait in yourself. It’s just a shame that you have caused such havoc to the Nature and all the lifeforms on this planet. I find it highly suspicious that the Nature started to react via magnetic reversal right after that push or impetus for liberal anti-nature world order. Some would see the proof of something very deep at work there. This world is not what the humanoid trash is imagining it to be.

    • Replies: @FB
  132. peterAUS says:
    @anonlb

    Life in Balkan was always unpleasant. Things in Balkan are complicated because you never can bet in rational reaction from people.

    Don’t say.

    ….some kind of ‘little shengen’ union between Serbia, Bosnia, Montenegro, Nort Macedonia, Kosovo and Albania, with open borders for workforce

    ….It looks like final solution for serbian question, because serbs will become minority in no time, but will again all live in one country. The same can be said for albanian question….

    Informative.
    And all, really, Serbs have to do is to give up, officially, Kosovo, a? Like: “it’s not an occupied territory. No, no. Not taken from us by force of arms. Well, even if it was, it was for our own good. We don’t claim it at all. Nothing to do with us, anymore. What is, really, some field and a couple of churches when we can have a free flow of people, goods, and services”.
    Neat, neat.

    ….But this can backfire spectaculary as always in Balkan, my hope is that albanians will refuse it violently.

    Hehe..what if they don’t? Sounds familiar?

  133. @chris

    Glad you got to re-appreciate the Aaronson poem.
    The only thing I might venture to add to it is,

    “Today the coward and the knave [and the madman] are kings.”

  134. FB says: • Website
    @Malacaay

    There is a threshold of endurance even for cattle.

    How about AFRO-SHIPTAR DONKEYS…?

    I imagine this ‘threshold’ would be quite high…LOL

    This is especially true for rented AFRO-SHIPTAR DONKEYS…who tend to get beaten quite mercilessly…

    • Replies: @Malacaay
  135. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    I see that you have an acquired and good taste in music 🙂

    Listen to this with English subs.

  136. @Malacaay

    Literally any of Baja Mali Knindza’s songs (English subs available) are better than Ustashe Thompson garbage (He even plaigarizes from Serb Chetniks lol).

    • Disagree: Malacaay
  137. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    Another song (English subs) dedicated to the Serb victims of Jasenovac and WW2.

  138. @peterAUS

    And all, really, Serbs have to do is to give up, officially, Kosovo, a?

    That will never happen. It hasn’t happened by now, and it will not happen in future since there is more to lose from it than ever. This video (English subs and some other languages) explains quite a bit of that.

  139. @peterAUS

    Corps sized units, employing mechanized forces supported by regimental sized artillery units.

    Eternal glory to the 5th Kozara Brigade.

    (English subtitles available)

  140. @Milan

    Two things.

    1: The Chetnik movement was not one united and monolithic group. The Chetnik movement was split apart in various regions and areas based upon the different local leaders it had. So, for example, the Chetniks of Drazha Mikhailovich, Momcilo Djujic and Kosta Pecanac behaved in 3 different ways in 3 different regions of operation. They had almost nothing in common with each other, besides maintaining infrequent communication with each other and being called “Chetniks”.

    2: Drazha Mikhailovich did not collaborate with the Germans or Nazi’s. He did approve of collaboration with Italy though (Almost all the Chetnik leaders did, really). In general, it may perhaps be more accurate to describe Drazha Mikhailovich as an Axis collaborator (this definition includes Italy). Drazha was most certainly not a Nazi collaborator though …

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    , @Milan
  141. @Epigon

    Instead of focusing on my comment with EXACT numbers, census data and perhaps building on it by going back to 1910, 1900, 1856, 1846 data – arbitrary nonsense, rants and Croat bullshit peddling takes place.

    My apologies for contributing with the rants. I missed your comment until bothering to check again. I guess it’s too late now, anyway. I also thought that I should respectfully defer to you on matters of census data, EXACT numbers and so on.

    I genuinely don’t understand people who decide to ignore HARD facts, primary evidence and instead focus on opinions and stories.

    Opinions and stories are much more persuasive for most people than HARD facts and primary evidence. That’s why I post Serb songs here. They will go further in persuading anyone than trying to be patient with facts that most people don’t care for and don’t bother paying attention to or even deliberately ignore.

    However, regarding the census and demographic data, of say, Kosovo, it has been notoriously unreliable for the whole post ww2 period. Especially in present day since the 1990’s. Kosovo’s population is apparently now at 1.8 million and everyone’s supposed to believe that even though Kosovo is literally smaller than Montenegro, it somehow has 3 times the population (~600k for Montenegro). From the research I’ve done about the current population of Kosovo, I think it is somewhere between 800,000 and 1 million, with there also actually being at least 150,000 Serbs. The numbers of Albanians is most certainly exaggerated.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  142. Truth911 says: • Website

    Trust but verify, that applies to anyone, even Putin and Russia.

    Rabbi Reveals Shocking History of Putin, KGB, Chabad, & Mossad

    http://educate-yourself.org/cn/MastersOfDeception.pdf

  143. @peterAUS

    What’s the point here?

    “Myth” is simply a story. In usual usage, national myths are those various groups take either literally or metaphorically, i.e. a stories with embellishments that serve the purpose to unify or give a certain ethnic group adrenaline rush.

    In the case of Serbs, the Kosovo myth is about centrality of the Kosovo battle, 1389. A.D. for Serbian people. There is no doubt that battle occurred; also, it did not play the crucial role in development & crystallization of Serbian national consciousness until the 1830s/1840s, when, in the climate of Romanticism, it became one of the foci for further Serbian folk mythology & identity, as has shown Serbian literary historian Miodrag Popović in his book: “Za krst časni i slobodu zlatnu” (which is, by the way, a Croatian expression Serbs took over from us).

    The Kosovo battle myth is, thus, a 19th C latecomer invention & serves only to Serbian national ego-inflation. Though significant, it did not possess any national-existential connotations later Serbian expansionist ideology had added. However, unlike Serbian rubbish galore one can read in most Serbian commentators’ posts here, and pertaining to anything from genealogy to history, from language to culture, from geography to politics- and these are over 90% outright lies & fabrications- the Kosovo battle actually did happen (although it was pumped up in the mid-19th C imagination & given a huge importance it had not possessed, even for historical Serbs).

    As I said: pan-Serbian ideology from past 150 years had been definitely defeated, and I could add, Kosovo is a part of that ideology.

    The Kosovo province is now inhabited by a different people. This is the case with similar instances (Troy & Istanbul/Constatinople, birth places of Homer & Byzantine empire, so crucial for Greeks; Benares for Buddhists; Puritan Protestant Boston & New England are now mostly Catholic; holy land of Deutschtum, east Prussia, which produced Kant, Schopenhauer, Boehme, Robert Koch, David Hilbert,..- is now a part of Poland & Russia) – place historically much more significant than Kosovo for Serbs &, one need not say, globally important, have changed “ethnic ownership” over time.

    And, so what? If you choose to live for myth, you’ll die from it.

    • Disagree: TheTotallyAnonymous
    • Replies: @peterAUS
  144. Mikhail says: • Website
    @Anonymous

    Have heard my share of Non-Serb Balkan based pe0ple babbling about how they represent Western values.

  145. Mikhail says: • Website
    @Commentator Mike

    Nowhere near as what the Croat Ustashe did. On the biases against Russia and Serbia:

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/twisted-history-against-russia-and-serbia/5390154

  146. Mikhail says: • Website
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    The Nazis had wanted posters of Mihailovic, whose forces aided Allied airmen shot down by the Nazis over Yugoslavia.

    The David Martin book I linked at this thread, references primary source material, noting that the Nazis and Tito had a working agreement against the Chetniks.

    • Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous
  147. anonlb says:
    @peterAUS

    After WW2 official stance of Yugo comunists was ‘when Albania joins Yugoslavia as new repiblic we will give them Kosovo’. Albania leaders refused offer but never give up on Kosovo. Why should Albania and Kosovo accept simillar offer now, when their goals are almost completed?
    Current serbian leadres can clam this as positive achievment, because it will remove borders between Kosovo and Serbia(and Bosnia, Montenegro and Macedonia which is even more important), secure market with 20m consumers, probably secure mentioned monasteries and remaining serbs etc…
    On the long run what realy matters is that albanian TFR is in free fall after independence of Kosovo(google Kosovo tfr). Only if serbs can manage raise of TFR, other things will come to place sooner or later.

  148. @Mikhail

    The Nazis had wanted posters of Mihailovic, whose forces aided Allied airmen shot down by the Nazis over Yugoslavia.

    the Nazis and Tito had a working agreement against the Chetniks

    Yes. I know this. You still did not understand my point though. My point is that while Drazha Mikhailovich did not collaborate with the Germans/Nazi’s, he still collaborated with the Italians, which can technically count as Axis Collaboration.

    Again, as I previously stated, the Chetnik movement was not monolithic and it varied noticeably in its behavior across different areas of the Balkan where it was led by different local leaders. So as I stated previously, the behaviors of say Drazha Mikhailovich, Momcilo Djujic, Kosta Pecanac and Pavle Djurisic varied significantly from each other, even though they were all formally a part of the same movement. Once the Italians became disturbed by Ustashe crimes and decided to distance themselves from them, the Chetniks preferred to collaborate with the Italians over the Germans, for obvious reasons, which is why Italy’s capitulation in WW2 is arguably unfortunate in hindsight.

    In general though, WW2 was a complete and utter disaster for Serbs as they were fighting a civil war against each (Chetniks v Communist Partisans) while they were being occupied, invaded, massacred and genocided by foreign enemies, both Balkan and from the wider world, at literally the same time from 1941-1945 (Germans, Italians, Bulgarians, Hungarians, Albanians, Bosnian Muslims and Croat Ustashe). There are similarities in what happened to Serbs in WW2 and the Chinese experience of Chang Kai Shek’s Kuomintang v Mao Ze Dong’s Communists fighting each other while being invaded by Japan (the analogy can’t be stretched too far, though).

  149. Time to repost an old comment (because most commenters are virtually clueless re history of that vanished country):

    [MORE]

    * during 1918-1939 period, Yugoslavia was basically a softer version of Greater Serbia, with all nations-except Slovenes- oppressed. Close to 400 Croats & ca. 2000 Muslims had been killed by Serbian paramilitaries & government forces during “peaceful” period in the 1920s & 1930s. The turning point was assassination of Croatian leader Stjepan Radić, a sort of Croatian Gandhi, by a Serb nationalist in Yugoslav parliament in 1928. This convinced some Croats that any Yugoslavia was insufferable, and the most influential among them was future Poglavnik/”Leader” Ante Pavelić, who emigrated & founded a revolutionary terrorist organization ustaše (ca. 200-300 people).

    * after the collapse of Yugoslavia in the April war 1941, situation in Croatia & Bosnia and Herzegovina was something like a vacuum. No Croatian politician wanted to become the head of state patronized by Nazi German authorities, but at the same time there was a sense of jubilation: Croats got independent (in theory) country, after decades of Serbian oppression. In this vacuum, Pavelić was installed by Hitler and Mussolini as a kind of puppet. In this country, ca. 50-60% were Croats & more than 30% were Serbs (the rest were Bosnian Muslims, considered to be Croats).

    * Pavelić assumed power on April the 10th 1941. But even a week before that, Serb paramilitaries had started killing Croats & some 200-400 people were killed in the interregnum. After he had been installed, Pavelić actually dissolved parliament & established a dictatorship; Croatia was crippled & many vital areas, especially in Dalmatia, were given to Mussolini’s Italy. Also, he introduced racial laws for Jews & started to persecute Serbs- both as a revenge for their participation in royal Yugoslavia period terror & their atrocities during interregnum. In next few months perhaps 5-20,000 Serbs were killed by ustaše in various areas of NDH/Independent State of Croatia.

    Basically, it was a terrorist regime & most Croats disapproved of it, but were expecting to get rid of ustaše in some future & retain statehood under democratic circumstances. So, Croats wanted a truly independent country.

    * Serbs, being persecuted (along with Jews & Gypsies) rebelled on a massive scale in the last quarter of 1941 & many areas of NDH had become virtually defunct. This resulted in further Pavelić’s dependence to Hitler. On the other hand, communist partisans, led by a Croat, Josip Broz Tito, after their defeat in Serbia fled with remnants of their “army” to the NDH territory. There, they found refuge among Serbs, while many of them defected to royalist Četniks led by Serbian colonel Mihailović. Četniks had killed, during 1941, ca. 12-15.000 Muslim & Croat civilians, mostly in the eastern Bosnia regions.

    From 1941-1945 there was a civil war in all of Yugoslavia, with various factions fighting for different aims. In Croatia, more Croats had been coming to partisans, especially after 1943 (fall of Italy) & thus partisans became a respectable force. For instance, Croatia had 5 partisan corpses (4 of them with clear Croatian majority), while Slovenia had 2, Bosnia & Herzegovina 2, Serbia proper 2 etc.

    * in may 1945, war was over & partisans had won. But, in 2- 6 weeks after the end of war, they committed mass atrocities, killing ca. 80,000 Croatian soldiers & civilians, perhaps 10,000 Serbian Četniks & up to 4,000 Slovenian white guards.

    Modern unbiased historical investigations have dispelled many myths, especially those re number of victims in Yugoslavia & NDH in particular. In sum, in all of Yugoslavia, ca. 500,000 Serbs had died unnatural deaths & this included some 300,000 Serbs in NDH. Of these, perhaps over 100,000 had been killed by ustaše, while others died of typhoid, were killed by Germans, Četniks etc. Among Croats, ca. 200,000 died of unnatural causes, virtually all of them in NDH on various sides. Percentage-wise, the biggest losses were among Bosnian Muslims, over 80,000.

    https://www.hercegbosna.org/STARO/engleski/download.html

    For instance:

    https://www.hercegbosna.org/STARO/download-eng/Zerjavic_manipulations.pdf

    Vladimir Zerjavic- YUGOSLAVIA-MANIPULATIONS -WITH THE NUMBER OF SECOND WORLD WAR VICTIMS

    https://www.hercegbosna.org/STARO/download-eng/Greater_Serbia.pdf

    GREATER SERBIA: from Ideology to Aggression,

    https://www.hercegbosna.org/STARO/download-eng/SE_Europe.pdf

    An International Symposium: SOUTHEASTERN EUROPE 1918-1995

    http://gen.lib.rus.ec/book/index.php?md5=D46A71C24EB2DFA356DF7B7DFF095E5F

    War and Revolution in Yugoslavia, 1941-1945: Occupation and Collaboration – Jozo Tomasevich

    http://gen.lib.rus.ec/book/index.php?md5=BC54C7CC4AD01FA7B4056FF06D130363

    The National Question in Yugoslavia: Origins, History, Politics – Ivo Banac

    As for Kosovo, a brief overview until NATO intervention:

    What is now Kosovo had been an integral part of Serbian medieval state in 13th & 14th C. They have a strong cultural heritage there. After Ottoman conquest of Serbia in 14th & 15th C, the ethnic composition of the area remained, more or less, the same. But, after mass Serbian migrations at the end of 17th C to the northern, Austrian lands (now a Serbian province of Vojvodina), neighboring Albanians, most of them Muslims (Albanian people are ca. 70% Muslim, the rest are Catholics & Eastern Orthodox) moved in & became the majority.

    This was so until 19th C when Serbia, now a new duchy, then kingdom, during Balkan wars in 1913 occupied/liberated Kosovo. The region was then 63% Albanian, 25% Serbian & the rest were mostly Muslim Turks, Bosniaks and Gypsies. Serbian socialist Dimitrije Tucović openly wrote against that, condemning what he saw as extension of European imperialism to the provincial levels of Balkan tribalism (the classic work is “Srbija i Arbanija”, 1-2). Albanians were suppressed & forced to emigrate, while Serbian colonizers took their place (this was not too successful because of Albanian high fertility rate & unwillingness of most Serbs to move in that backward area).

    After WW II, Yugoslav policy toward Kosovo was ambiguous: on one hand, Yugoslav Communists wanted to placate Albanians who had been promised full independence & integration with neighboring Albania; on the other, they wanted to keep Serbs satisfied. So, the region was, according to Soviet model, given a semi-autonomous status in Serbia. In reality, oppression of Albanians continued from 1945 to 1966, the fall of Tito’s strongman Ranković (Serbian quasi-Stalinist politician). Until Tito’s death in 1980, Kosovo had been, economically, Yugoslav black hole, sucking in vast amounts of money from all republics that contributed to keep it quiet; in the meantime, Kosovo Albanians rose from 65% to over 90% in population after Tito’s death & created their own educated classes (Priština University has, after reforms in 1960s, taught both in Serbian & Albanian). The rise of modern nationalism among Albanians was not successfully quelled in the whole period leading to Milošević’s struggle to transform Yugoslavia from an uneasy consensus of South Slavic nations controlled by (theoretically) supra-national Communist Party to the open Serbian hegemony. After Milošević (and most Serbs) lost all wars in Slovenia, Croatia and Bosnia & Herzegovina, Albanians- who had been living in past 15 years under police terror & intimidation- rose in revolt, but were losing due to numerous factors (poorly armed, untrained, their area studded with Serbian Army garrisons,..).

    http://gen.lib.rus.ec/book/index.php?md5=622D70E61AF3913F990461A85BC19065

    Kosovo What Everyone Needs to Know-Tim Judah

    http://gen.lib.rus.ec/book/index.php?md5=8E0B564EEF0247FCDD15B41641A2D1DB

    Between Serb and Albanian: A History of Kosovo- Miranda Vickers

  150. Jazman says:
    @Malacaay

    Why do not you ask Croatian historian Goran Saric about Serbs in Croatia ? So far nobody have ball to come to have argument with him . Better stop with your pseudo cartoon network history

  151. Malacaay says:
    @FB

    I told you already, little rat, that Albanians are no Africans. You were wrongly instructed by the Serbos that calling them Sciptars is some kind of an insult to them. They call themselves sciptars, so how could that be an insult of any kind, you stupid trash? Educate yourself you stupid piece of shit. Or at least try with some logical insult. You are so stupid you are not even able to throw an insult. You are wrong on every aspect your insult is aiming at, you imbecile.

  152. Malacaay says:
    @Jazman

    Do you have an argument, clown? If you have an argument or arguments, let’s listen to it/them. Until you have an argument, Serbo, I suggest you keep quite. You won’t find anything “yours” Serbo in, at or on our realm.

    • Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous
  153. @Bardon Kaldian

    during 1918-1939 period, Yugoslavia was basically a softer version of Greater Serbia, with all nations-except Slovenes- oppressed.

    You’re already writing a combination of complete lies and worthless garbage from your very first sentence.

    In the 1918-1919 time period (and slightly after that) Serbs had a choice to either simply make a larger Serbian state with new lands or form a Yugoslavia and Kingdom of equality with Croats and Slovenes. The Croats and Slovenes as members of Austria-Hungary that was on the losing side of WW1 were eager to not get partitioned by Italy, Austria and Hungary. This is why they turned to Serbs and even invited the Serb Army to enter Croatia and Slovenia (to form Yugoslavia) to prevent them from being partitioned by these stronger powers.

    The idiot Serbs accepted to form a Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes (Kingdom of SHS) even though they could easily have chosen to make a Greater Serbia. There is literally nothing sinister about the whole Greater Serbia thing as it was completely normal in the context of 19th and early 20th century nationalism. Of course, the fact that Serbs didn’t make a Greater Serbia then really means that the 20th century was set to be a disaster for Serbs and it’s also the reason Serbs have to put up with Croat scum like Bardon Kaldian peddling his generic Croat bullshit …

    Anyway, tell me Bardon, how in the hell were the Slovenes somehow not “oppressed” while everyone else was “oppressed” in Yugoslavia from 1918-1939 (Only became Yugoslavia in 1929).

    Close to 400 Croats & ca. 2000 Muslims had been killed by Serbian paramilitaries & government forces during “peaceful” period in the 1920s & 1930s.

    Those are minor numbers, assuming they are even true. Executing and eliminating political dissidents was completely normal for the time. Take a look at how Central Europeans and Romanians treated each other after Triannon and founding of Czechoslovakia. In fact, those numbers are nothing compared to Pole-Ukranian Wars of the time and Russian Civil War.

    The turning point was assassination of Croatian leader Stjepan Radić, a sort of Croatian Gandhi, by a Serb nationalist in Yugoslav parliament in 1928.

    Wtf? Stjepan Radic was assassinated because he was openly insulting and mocking Serb WW1 casualties in parliament in broad daylight by taking his wallet out and saying he could byy the 1 million plus Serb dead so Croats could do what they like. An important note about WW1 is that Croats, Slovenes and Bosnian Muslims as part of Austria-Hungary’s army committed many war crime against Serb civilans and population, especially in the areas of Bosnia and Macva. The same scum that committed these crimes or agitated for committing crimes against Serbs in WW1, such as Marko Natlacen, Croat Vrazja Division and so on were all literally allowed to be a part of this integral Yugoslav state. Stjepan Radic knew very well what he was doing when he was deliberately making his comments and he deserved it.

    This convinced some Croats that any Yugoslavia was insufferable

    Garbage. Croats and Slovenes began undermining Yugoslavia after 1919 as it then became clear that they were no longer in danger of being partitioned by Italy, Austria and Hungary. Croats and Slovenes hoped to dominate this Yugoslavia even though it was built on 1 million + Serb dead so they literally began undermining it since 1919 and then began squirming when they realize they couldn’t fully cuck the Serbs even though they already managed to geo-politically cuck Serbs to a large degree.

    No Croatian politician wanted to become the head of state patronized by Nazi German authorities, but at the same time there was a sense of jubilation

    Garbage. Ante Pavelic was more than eager to take power after being appointed by the German and Italian Axis occupiers.

    Pavelić assumed power on April the 10th 1941. But even a week before that, Serb paramilitaries had started killing Croats & some 200-400 people were killed in the interregnum.

    Garbage. The Ustashe were the ones that first started massacring and genociding Serbs. Why would the Serbs take up arms and begin killing Croats if they were not being provoked to do so? Of course, you can’t even prove when or say what that incident was.

    The first recorded massacre of Serbs occurred in Bjelovar on the night of 27th-28th April 1941 when between 180-190 Serb civilians were shot.

    Ustashe policies make it as clear as day that they intended to genocide Serbs from the start. For instance, the speech of Ustashe official Mile Budak in Gospic on 22 July 1941 where he explained his policy of kill 1/3, convert 1/3 and expel 1/3rd of all Serbs. Many other quotes from Ustashe officials exist where they openly stated and even bragged about their desire to mass murder Serbs.

    Also, he introduced racial laws for Jews & started to persecute Serbs- both as a revenge for their participation in royal Yugoslavia period terror & their atrocities during interregnum. In next few months perhaps 5-20,000 Serbs were killed by ustaše in various areas of NDH/Independent State of Croatia.

    Your attempts at relativizing the genocide against Serbs is extremely cowardly and underhanded. Of course, you are a piece of Croat scum which makes it unsurprising that you would try this.

    Ignoring your lies about interregnum atrocities, it is truly low of you to try and spin this as Croat revenge against Serbs. Also, way more than 5-20,000 Serbs died by the end of 1941.

    Serbs, being persecuted (along with Jews & Gypsies) rebelled on a massive scale in the last quarter of 1941 & many areas of NDH had become virtually defunct.

    Not true. Mass murder of Serbs was still happening in Slavonia and Bosnia. Only in Dalmatia and Lika did Serbs begin to take up arms in rebellion such as the Chetnik uprising at the Srb village in Lika.

    The Italians literally co-operated with the Chetniks in their zones of occupation to save Serb civilians from the Ustashe because they became disgusted at Croat atrocities. For instance, here is a letter from an Italian Army general to Mussolini (some things are better left not bragged about).

    https://pdfslide.net/documents/letter-of-italian-army-general-alessandro-luzano-to-mussolini.html

    Anyone interested can also take the time to read the memoirs of German officials such as Edmund von Glaise Horstenau. Of course, there are many more Italian and German accounts of Croat barbarity against Serbs in WW2.

    I don’t think I need to and I would honestly prefer not to go into Srbosjeks (Croat “Serb cutter” knives), Croats first to implement death camps for children, sadists such as Miroslav Phillipovic, Vjekoslav Luburic, Ustashe competitions competing for high score of cutting the throats of highest number of Serb inmates, rivers such as Sava and Una running red with the blood of Serb bodies, not to mention wooden boards placed on these bodies by the Croats saying “Meat for the Belgrade Meat Market” …

    Ustashe overview with many other links below to Ustashe criminals, atrocities and other things around this time period:

    https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=sr&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zlocininadsrbima.com%2FUstaski.aspx

    Truth about Jasenovac:

    https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=sr&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=http://www.zlocininadsrbima.com/DokumentarniFilm.aspx%3FNaslov%3D%25D0%25A0%25D0%25B0%25D0%25B7%25D0%25B1%25D1%2583%25D1%2592%25D0%25B8%25D0%25B2%25
    D0%25B0%25D1%259A%25D0%25B5:-%25D0%2598%25D1%2581%25D1%2582%25D0%25B8%25D0%25BD%25D0%25B0-%25D0%25BE-%25D0%2588%25D0%25B0%25D1%2581%25D0%25B5%25D0%25BD%25D0%25BE%25D0%25B2%25D1%2586%25D1%2583&xid=17259,15700022,15700043,15700186,15700191,15700256,15700259,15700262,15700265,15700271&usg=ALkJrhgzl4-lJLbb0OCuM9Ngi0GplBA-kA

    Jasenovac as the site of the greatest mass murder of Serbs:

    https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=sr&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=http://www.zlocininadsrbima.com/Novost.aspx%3FNaslov%3D%25D0%2588%25D0%25B0%25D1%2581%25D0%25B5%25D0%25BD%25D0%25BE%25D0%25B2%25D0%25B0%25D1%2586-%25D0%25BD%25D0%25B0%25D1%2598%25D1%2586%25D1%2580%25D1%259A%25D0%25B5-%25D1%2581%25D1%2580%25D0%25BF%25D1%2581%25D0%25BA%25D0%25BE-%25D1%2581%25D1%2582%25D1%2580%25D0%25B0%25D1%2582%25D0%25B8%25D1%2588%25D1%2582%25D0%25B5&xid=17259,15700022,15700043,15700186,15700191,15700256,15700259,15700262,15700265,15700271&usg=ALkJrhgG6mQDhQ_XZiYjJJx0rBabBm_scQ

    On the other hand, communist partisans, led by a Croat, Josip Broz Tito, after their defeat in Serbia fled with remnants of their “army” to the NDH territory. There, they found refuge among Serbs, while many of them defected to royalist Četniks led by Serbian colonel Mihailović.

    Wrong. The Yugoslav Communist Partisans were unscrupulous enough to take advantage of the Serb population that was fleeing to boost their ranks. The Communist Partisans were more interested in fighting the Chetniks than in saving the Serb civilian population from the Ustashe. Not once in the war did the Communists try to attack or free Serbs from any of the Croat concentration camps.

    Modern unbiased historical investigations have dispelled many myths, especially those re number of victims in Yugoslavia & NDH in particular. In sum, in all of Yugoslavia, ca. 500,000 Serbs had died unnatural deaths & this included some 300,000 Serbs in NDH. Of these, perhaps over 100,000 had been killed by ustaše, while others died of typhoid, were killed by Germans, Četniks etc.

    Lies. Serb WW2 casualties totaled more than 2.1 million people across all of the territory of Yugoslavia.

    The objective links you cite are trash with pathological Croat historical revisionism and ranting about “Greater Serbia” (which is completely exaggerated and there is nothing really sinister about it).

    Let’s not even go into Kosovo and Albanians/Shqiptars. You have already done enough pathological lying about the NDH (Independent State of Croatia) and WW2 in the Balkans …

    • Replies: @Malacaay
  154. For the Russians interested, some glorious Serb Krajina and Chetnik songs:

  155. Some more glorious Chetnik and Serb Krajina and Republika Srpska Songs (no English subs):

  156. @Malacaay

    You will pay for Vukovar!

    English subs available (idk how to get them to work though).

  157. @peterAUS

    haha hehe

    Why do you write like a DeviantArt commenter

  158. peterAUS says:
    @Jazman

    ….Croatian historian Goran Saric…

    Got aware of the fellow recently. Interesting angle(s).

    I’d like to know a bit more about his background and who/what is behind/supporting him. Googling (quick, admit) didn’t help much.
    It would help to clarify a couple of things. Things just don’t happen in vacuum, in my book anyway.

    Any pointers to such info, in English, if possible?

  159. peterAUS says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    What’s the point here?

    The importance of myth.

    “Myth” is simply a story.

    You mean the “H”!? Exodus?! Which one?

    And, so what?

    Depends on who you are.Croat, Serb….Jew.

    If you choose to live for myth, you’ll die from it.

    Like Jews, you mean?
    “L’shanah haba’ah biyrushalayim” good.
    “Next year in Kosovo” bad.
    Naturally.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  160. @peterAUS

    There is no real similarity there. Historical Jews had been, for long time & in some places, repeating that phrase while in exile, stateless & homeless. They’ve been scattered, definitely, by Romans (who had vanished from history since), and this phrase appeared perhaps c. 1500 years after their final dispersion, as a part of Messianic fantasy, having nothing to do with any political & social project. And most Jews living in Arab & Ottoman lands never had any intention of going back to Jerusalem. It was just because of Nazi policy of persecution that enough Jews had ended up in Palestine, so that their new state could be created. Even with Zionism, a typical late 19th C ideology, they would not have moved back there.

    So, there is a false chain of logic linking the existence of modern Jewish nation-state & that phrase which appeared intermittently & only in some places, due to miserable living circumstances & hopeless existence in parts of Jewish diaspora

    “Next year in Kosovo” is a cartoon, a fake emulation of past Jewish condition, which has nothing historically, emotionally, culturally & identity-wise to do with this case. Serbs, unlike Jews in past 500 years, do possess their own-nation state; they had not been forcibly displaced from Kosovo region, but they had migrated & ethically conquered other lands, in this case Vojvodina province of contemporary Serbia.

    Albanian Kosovo is more similar to decolonization, much like- although, not entirely- Algeria or even closer to Greek & Turkish war in the 1920s. No parallel with Jews, Jerusalem or anything similar.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  161. peterAUS says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    “What is good for Croats”.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  162. @peterAUS

    The key difference is: Serbs, and their predecessors Vlachs, had been moving to Croatian lands in past 300-400 years (for various reasons). Croats had not been moving to Serbian lands because for us it was a backyard shithole.

    We, or at least most of us, don’t know what’s going on with them & don’t care. As a rule- we don’t know their cities, geography, history, culture…. On the other hand, they’re obsessed with us. For instance, they teach, at their universities, about 11 (at least) Croatian authors; we don’t have a single Serbian writer in our curriculum. They try, comically, to present our Renaissance, Baroque & Classicist literature as theirs; we don’t know/care about their 18th C & later writing. They even try to present as “monuments of Serbian language” Croatian Jesuit & Franciscan religious writings & lexicons.

    The same, although on a significantly smaller levels, goes for painting, architecture, sculpture etc.

    We don’t know/care about their churches, ecclesiastical history, military history, social structures. They, on the other hand, obsess about our churches, battles, history, culture, cities, languages,…
    They would like, if permitted, to settle in our cities; we couldn’t care less about moving to their urban areas.

    We have, generally, examined our chief cultural areas: visual arts, language (both dialects & standard language) & literature, history (here we have done a rather good job especially in recent, post 1990 history). I am not saying that many, many things are not still unfinished or examined – just, there is a solid work done. They, with some exceptions, did not- in most areas, with a few significant exceptions- produce serious studies, only pamphlets & publicist works.

    Economically, what to say: Croatia within Yugoslavia had 24% of population & had been contributing 40% to the federal Yugoslav budget, with money going to we all know where.

    So- despite all current problems, we’re doing fine without them & don’t pay attention to them; they, on the other hand, are still emotionally-cognitively our psychological slaves, always trying to distract our & world attention to their whining obsession with us.

    Well, the time of their parasitism had passed.

  163. Malacaay says:
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    Serbo dog, your lies are astounding. In WW1 your army fled to Corfu in Greece. During the retreat you lost 240.000 soldiers, while the remaining starved 150.000 were waiting allies there to save them. You weren’t even auxiliary to the French who saved you. You were just… someone who was tasked to keep an eye on horses, keep them fed and undehidrated. How did your kind come up with an idea that you deserve someone else’s land because you were defeated, but your allies managed to win in the end? Your allies weren’t winning wars for you, Serbo dog. They weren’t fighting for you. You deserve nothing. You were just a whore for your Russo-French ally. Here read about remnants of your army on Corfu.

    https://balkaninsight.com/2007/11/29/serbian-ghosts-haunt-corfu/

    Speaking about WW1, Serbo dogs committed numerous war crimes. This is what… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Report_of_the_International_Commission_on_the_Balkan_Wars … concluded regarding Serbo war crimes:

    “Houses and whole villages reduced to ashes, unarmed and innocent populations massacred en masse, incredible acts of violence, pillage and brutality of every kind — such were the means which were employed and are still being employed by the Serbian soldiery with a view to the entire transformation of the ethnic character of regions.”

    • Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous
  164. peterAUS says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Naturally. “What is good for Croats”.

    Learn from the best.

    Let’s just wait and see can Serbs do the same. Have some doubts but miracles happen.
    They do tend to (re)use some elements of “their” game (Auschwitz vs Jasenovac; or is it 6M vs 800K) so, never say never.

    Like your guys did in ’91.
    All Serbs need to do is declare (Parliament, referendum, whatever) that Krajina…ops, sorry, I meant Kosovo….. is “temporarily occupied territory”. And work from that position.

    Yes…yes, I am sure you could come up with a strong argument against it; any chance we could skip that here?

    • Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous
  165. @Malacaay

    Serbo dog, your lies are astounding. In WW1 your army fled to Corfu in Greece. During the retreat you lost 240.000 soldiers, while the remaining starved 150.000 were waiting allies there to save them. You weren’t even auxiliary to the French who saved you. You were just… someone who was tasked to keep an eye on horses, keep them fed and undehidrated. How did your kind come up with an idea that you deserve someone else’s land because you were defeated, but your allies managed to win in the end? Your allies weren’t winning wars for you, Serbo dog. They weren’t fighting for you. You deserve nothing. You were just a whore for your Russo-French ally.

    Evidently you missed the part where the Serbs fought battles on the Macedonian Front against the Bulgarians, such as the Battle of Kajmakchalan and so on. You also missed the part where the Serb Army along with its allies (French mostly) liberated its own land in 1918 and where the Serb populations with the regional assemblies of Vojvodina, Bosnia, Krajina and Montenegro voted to join Serbia first before Serbia formed the Kingdom of SHS and later Yugoslavia.

    https://historycollection.co/ten-facts-battle-dobro-polje-battle-led-allied-victory-world-war/8/

    All anyone needs to do to see through your garbage is just to read a basic history of WW1 in the Balkans …

    Speaking about WW1, Serbo dogs committed numerous war crimes. This is what… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Report_of_the_International_Commission_on_the_Balkan_Wars … concluded regarding Serbo war crimes:

    3 things.

    1: You are citing a Wikipedia link.

    2: You are referring to the accusations of Serb war crimes against Albanians during the Balkan Wars, not WW1. You can’t even properly differentiate between WW1 and the Balkan Wars …

    3: The accusations of Serb war crimes in the Balkan Wars against Albanians are notoriously biased and unreliable. Almost all the Western European great powers had an interest in denying Serbia access to the Adriatic Sea since Serbia was an ally of Russia, and allowing Russia access to the Mediterranean was completely unacceptable for West Europeans. They achieved their goal in denying Serbia access to the Adriatic Sea by creating the fake country of Albania (an Ottoman Pasha formally declared it as a country) that had literally never existed before in world history (Austro-Hungarian and German intellectuals literally engineered Albanian culture, history, national flags and statehood).

    The powers of Italy, Austria-Hungary, Germany, France and Britain all sent an ultimatum to the Serb Army to withdraw from Albania or else. The Serb Army backed down because it’s apparent ally Bulgaria refused to support them, which would lead to the 2nd Balkan War, among other reasons. In order to justify denying a sovereign and militarily successful nation its victory and territorial gains in war, the Western powers had to invent a reason or pretext for this that went beyond naked self-interest on their part.

    Then, just as now, these powers obviously did not create and support Albania for humanitarian reasons. It is worth mentioning that the international commission which accused Serbs of atrocities against Albanians was composed of Western liberals and more than half of the commission members were actually from Austria-Hungary, Germany and the UK! They totally would not have had any bias whatsoever to accuse Serbs of atrocities at all, would they?

    Another notorious accuser of the Serbs committing war crimes against Albanians in the 1st Balkan War was Leon Trostky who was writing his accusations from Sofia, of all places (meaning he never even visited the front lines while he was publishing complete slander against Serbs). Of course, he employed the Serb Socialist traitor Dmitrije Tucovic to make atrocity accusations against his own people (Serb socialists also sabotaged Serbia’s war effort during the Balkan Wars). Also, a Norwegian army officer commented that the atrocity accusations were complete lies and part of media campaign of demonizing Serbs (sound familiar to the 1990’s? history repeating itself?). The Serbian government completely denied any accusations of wrong-doing.

  166. @peterAUS

    All Serbs need to do is declare (Parliament, referendum, whatever) that Krajina…ops, sorry, I meant Kosovo….. is “temporarily occupied territory”. And work from that position.

    I think for anything to do with Kosovo, Serbia should follow the model of Russia’s takeover of Crimea (especially the “little Green men” infiltration in advance) and the Turkish military offensive against Kurds in Syria, or some mix of the sort. The swiftness, rapidity and decisive success of these military operations is the only thing that can work, and is ultimately desirable.

    Anything else is just too risky since the Kosovo Serb minority lives in too many enclaves and its numbers are too small (casualties suffered by the Serb minority are unacceptable and it would take the Serb Army at least 8 hours to reach all Serb enclaves). Not to mention camp Bondsteel and all the international “peacekeepers” (The biggest, and only problem, really). I think that when the time is right, Republika Srpska could easily adopt some sort of referendum or parliament declaration.

    Anyway, Bosnia, Kosovo and “North Macedonia” are all flash-points for a future war in the Balkans that is becoming more and more likely to happen as time passes. Unfortunately, it seems that the USA is not fully withdrawing from Syria, which means that Serbs will have to wait even longer for the USA/NATO to withdraw from the Balkans.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  167. @Malacaay

    Also another question, if you don’t mind, what is up with your use of the word “Serbois”???

    • Replies: @Malacaay
  168. @Bardon Kaldian

    LOL. This is precisely what the Serbs say about the Croats, especially that obsessing. Maybe they go even further, denying almost completely Croatian history and culture, and maybe even the language. Oh well, just mirror images. But then again which Serbs and Croats are we talking about here? The ones who make the most noise.

  169. @TheTotallyAnonymous

    The situation in Kosovo is at an impasse and will remain so for a long time. I see similarities with the Israel/Palestine conflict, Pakis/Indians in Kashmir, the West/immigrants, and even the Kurdish problem to some extent.

    In the one state solution under Serbia, the demography becomes a problem as the Shiptars procreate at far greater rates than Serbs (some say their birth rate has fallen dramatically, but then surely it is still greater than the average in Serbia). So eventually the Shiptars would end up dominating Serbia proper, or at least having an overwhelming political influence as they do in (North) Macedonia. It isn’t a certainty that this may not happen in the distant future anyway, as they are all entitled to Serbian nationality and passports regardless, and they can purchase properties and businesses in Serbia to launder their criminal proceeds, which they could do even as complete foreigners let alone as those born on the territory Serbia recognises as its own, or on territory which once was Serbian. Even under a one Serbian state they would run their parallel institutions independent of the state in Kosovo, something the immigrants in the West are already copying.

    OK, so let’s imagine that one day the geopolitical situation changes in favour of Serbia and the Serbian military enters Kosovo, what then? Other than clearing out the extremists and punishing the terrorists, what else? Do you really think that Serbs would majorly populate the province like Jews are doing in Palestine? I think not. I don’t think that even most of those Serbs who settled in Serbia as refugees from Kosovo would be willing to go back. Some maybe, but not many. I suppose some settlements could be encouraged through various financial incentives in some areas but I can’t see it taking off in a big way. Kosovo is important to Serbs but I don’t think they’re as fanatical as the Jews despite the uncompromising stance of some hardcore nationalists.

    Of course there is a lot of mineral wealth in Kosovo but that will fall into hands of multinational or foreign corporations regardless whether Kosovo is independent or not, and the only loser would be the Serbians state/government as it won’t be able to tax these and the taxes will go to the Kosovo government.

    Culturally the Shiptars are completely different from all the other Slavs in the Balkans, although they claim they were there before the Slavs. Regardless of whether they were there earlier or were brought in from elsewhere, the Shiptars do look fairly white to me – on appearance I’d still class them more as European than as Middle Eastern, Arab, African, or Asian.

    I still think some compromise will have to be found to satisfy both parties eventually. Sure Serbia should never recognise Kosovo and hopefully more populist parties will come to power in the West, while they still have an electoral chance given their changing demographics, and these will withdraw recognition of Kosovo as well as support whatever further moves Serbia makes vis a vis the Kosovar and Bosnian Muslims (what and how and if at all desirable is another question), but still it doesn’t solve the problem on the ground. A changing political climate in Europe could perhaps allow the return of some Serbian military and police forces to Kosovo to ensure the security of the Serbian population as required by United Nations Security Council Resolution 1244 – that should be the mininum demand, if not the maximum. And the Serbian diaspora in the West should support the populist parties, and it largely does so, form Trump to the Austrian Freedom Party and the Alternative for Germany.

  170. @Bardon Kaldian

    You know what, I may as well also take the time to debunk your garbage about Kosovo. It is only proper and necessary to fully repel Croat garbage, even if it is about Kosovo.

    after mass Serbian migrations at the end of 17th C to the northern, Austrian lands (now a Serbian province of Vojvodina), neighboring Albanians, most of them Muslims (Albanian people are ca. 70% Muslim, the rest are Catholics & Eastern Orthodox) moved in & became the majority.

    It is true that Serbs began to flee Kosovo since the late 17th century. What is omitted is the mass atrocities committed against the Serb population there for centuries successively since then.

    For instance, here is a quick list of those in the 19th century and early 20th century:

    https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=sr&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sajkaca.com%2Fistorija%2Fkratka-istorija-albanskih-napada-na-srbe1365%2F1365%2F

    Serbian socialist Dimitrije Tucović openly wrote against that, condemning what he saw as extension of European imperialism to the provincial levels of Balkan tribalism (the classic work is “Srbija i Arbanija”, 1-2).

    Dmitrije Tucovic did not work for Serb interests, but instead those of international Communism and Socialism where he was in contact with Leon Trotsky to make false atrocity accusations against Serbs in the 1st Balkan War.

    Also, it is insulting to compare Serb efforts to return and reintegrate their ancient holy land with European colonialism. It is inappropriate to compare the Serbian liberation and control of Kosovo with, say, the French colonization of Algeria or Anglo-Dutch settlement of South Africa. Kosovo is ancient Serb land, something that even you don’t dare to argue against.

    Albanians were suppressed & forced to emigrate, while Serbian colonizers took their place (this was not too successful because of Albanian high fertility rate & unwillingness of most Serbs to move in that backward area).

    You forgot to mention that there were plans to deport the Albanian population to Turkey, which was proposed by Vasa Cubrilovic, but unfortunately nothing ever came of those plans. Many of those “colonizers” also included Serbs that fled north because of Albanian persecution in the 19th century and early 20th century, so they were simply returning to their ancient homeland.

    After WW II, Yugoslav policy toward Kosovo was ambiguous: on one hand, Yugoslav Communists wanted to placate Albanians who had been promised full independence & integration with neighboring Albania; on the other, they wanted to keep Serbs satisfied. So, the region was, according to Soviet model, given a semi-autonomous status in Serbia. In reality, oppression of Albanians continued from 1945 to 1966, the fall of Tito’s strongman Ranković (Serbian quasi-Stalinist politician).

    The policy of Tito and the Yugoslav-Communists towards Kosovo and Serbs was VERY FAR from ambiguous. They purposely did A LOT to harm Serbia and ethnic Serbs to the fullest extent that they possibly could.

    That includes the AVNOJ borders made in 1944, post WW2 and 1974 Yugoslav Constitution. That is, the cutting down of Serbia to only include its pre 1914 territorial size with autonomous units of Vojvodina and Kosovo. It also includes accepting 100,000 Albanian migrants from Albania in order to further shift the demographics against Serbs, not punishing the Albania criminals that ethnically cleansed and mass murdered Serbs in WW2 (SS Skanderberg and Balli Kombetar) and then Tito forbidding Kosovo Serbs to return to their ancestral homeland.

    Until the 1980’s when Milosevic took power and began to crackdown on Albanians, the Albanians literally ran amok aggressively breeding and committing crimes against the Serb population and expelling them. Their behavior was complete 3rd world migrant like (similar to migrants in Europe and USA right now). Albanians commonly did things like purposely throw babies in front of Serb cars in order to get more gibs (mostly Serb gibs, again similar to current migrants in Europe/USA).

    This problem became especially bad when Tito fired Aleksander Rankovic who was a defender of Kosovo Serbs. Albanians behaved with even more impunity after Aleksander Rankovic was removed up until Milosevic began to crackdown as they kept aggressively breeding while getting access to Serb and Yugoslav gibs (Croat-Slovene gibs). To be fair, I can understand why Croats and Slovenes didn’t want to subsidize Albanians, although it was pure hypocrisy and cowardice for them to pretend to care about the wellbeing of Albanians when Croat-Slovene cadres made a hypocritical-moralistic political drama out of relations between Kosovo Serbs and Albanians.

    There are many other ways that the policies of Tito and the Yugoslav Communists were devastating for Serbia and Serbs, but they do not directly relate to Kosovo.

    After Milošević (and most Serbs) lost all wars in Slovenia, Croatia and Bosnia & Herzegovina, Albanians- who had been living in past 15 years under police terror & intimidation- rose in revolt, but were losing due to numerous factors (poorly armed, untrained, their area studded with Serbian Army garrisons,..).

    First off, Serbs only really lost the wars in Slovenia and Croatia in the fullest sense of the term “lose”. The outcome of the Bosnian War qualifies as a stalemate, and arguably even a sort of victory for Serbs considering that they got to keep Republika Srpska, even as an autonomous part of Bosnia. The outcome of the war in Kosovo was overall disastrous for Serbs, although in military terms the Kosovo War was a Serbian defensive Pyrrhic victory (Confirmed by Battles of Kosare and Pastrik).

    As for Albanians “living under police terror and intimidation”, that’s complete garbage. The Albanians had been openly agitating to merge Kosovo with Albania and waged a campaign of armed separatist terrorism against the Serb Army and police units. The Albanians were trained, armed and supplied by US and German military and intelligence agencies years in advance of 1999. Mind you, the USA openly supported the same UCK that it declared as a terrorist organization against Serbs.

    The Serb Army (VJ = Army of Yugoslavia) at the time merely did what any other government or army would do in a similar scenario. That is, to wage a counter-terrorist operation. There literally was no campaign of terror, let alone ethnic cleansing and mass murder, by Serb forces as they were focused on suppressing UCK terrorism and mass murder of Serbs. The only “atrocities” committed by Serb forces was collateral damage against Albanian civilians in counter-terrorist operations against the UCK. For instance, in the case of the killing of Adem Jashari, some civilians (some of Jashari’s family and relatives) were killed since they were in the same compound as the terrorists were and the Serb forces did not bother to discriminate in that case.

    Anyway, the numbers of dead in Kosovo was in the low thousands up to 1999 and most of them were Albanian terrorists along with Serb civilians, police forces and soldiers. As has already been explained, the Racak Massacre (The Albanians killed by Serb forces were all UCK terrorists, there were literally no civilians there) was a farcical precedent staged by US Ambassador William Walker in order to bomb Serbia. Mind you, it’s easy to forget in hindsight, but in 1999 massive hoax claims were being run by CNN and Western Media about Serb ethnic cleansing, mass murder and even genocide of Kosovo Albanians. It was lying, falsifying and manipulation of the most unscrupulous and vicious sort.

    NATO then presented an ultimatum to Milosevic and Yugoslavia/Yugoslav Socialist Republic of Serbia. This was purposely framed as “evil Serbs refuse to negotiate” since it was not revealed until after that the ultimatum demanded Serbia capitulate to NATO and accept a NATO military occupation on NATO terms. The 78 day bombing campaign had NATO purposely target to kill Serb civilians while also saturating Kosovo with bombs. One of the greatest ironies of the NATO bombing campaign is that more Albanian civilians died overall then Serb soldiers and civilians combined due to NATO bombing. Since NATO used depleted uranium and cluster bombs, it means that Kosovo is also the most irradiated area in the Balkans which would partly explain why Albanian birthrates in Kosovo post-2000 are so horrible and why Albanian emigration rates are so high.

    As for the whole Albanian’s “fleeing from Kosovo” in 1999, there are two big reasons for that. First, the NATO bombing and secondly was the fact that Albanian tribal leaders in advance agreed to purposely stage a mass “refugee” crisis in order to justify the NATO attack.

    Anyway, this video below is only part 1 of 6 of (other parts can be found be searching the same channel and YouTube, of course) the Czech documentary “Stolen Kosovo”:

    While we are at it, I may as well provide a famous French General’s perspective (Pierre Marie Gallios, a man who was one of the main founders of France’s nuclear arsenal) on all the Yugoslav Wars and the vicious attack on the Serb people. This is part 1 of 2 about his opinions:

  171. @Commentator Mike

    But then again which Serbs and Croats are we talking about here? The ones who make the most noise.

    The ones that make the most noise are the ones with the most power.

    Life in Croatia for Krajina Serbs is very difficult. They are at the mercy of Ustashe lunatics. If you bother to take a look at the news that comes from Croatia, it is always a bunch of anti-Serb shit.

    The news is along the lines of the following: Some Croat government or political person ranting about “Serbian aggression”, a lone Serb or a bunch of Serbs get the living hell beaten out of them (happens way more often than you think), or are even killed by Croat attackers, Croat annual celebrations of Operation Storm with the ethnic cleansing of Serbs, Ustashe grafitti on any Serb minority events, placards or just anything to do with Serbs, and so on …

    In some ways, in the long term, the Krajina Serb community is actually even more endangered than the Kosovo Serb community as Krajina Serbs have low birthrates and are far less likely to be saved by the Serb Army.

  172. @Commentator Mike

    The situation in Kosovo is at an impasse and will remain so for a long time. I see similarities with the Israel/Palestine conflict, Pakis/Indians in Kashmir, the West/immigrants, and even the Kurdish problem to some extent.

    Agree. Although I would argue the Kosovo-Serbia scenario can’t be fully compared to the others as it significant differences compared to all those scenarios exist.

    In the one state solution under Serbia, the demography becomes a problem as the Shiptars procreate at far greater rates than Serbs (some say their birth rate has fallen dramatically, but then surely it is still greater than the average in Serbia). So eventually the Shiptars would end up dominating Serbia proper, or at least having an overwhelming political influence as they do in (North) Macedonia. It isn’t a certainty that this may not happen in the distant future anyway, as they are all entitled to Serbian nationality and passports regardless, and they can purchase properties and businesses in Serbia to launder their criminal proceeds, which they could do even as complete foreigners let alone as those born on the territory Serbia recognises as its own, or on territory which once was Serbian. Even under a one Serbian state they would run their parallel institutions independent of the state in Kosovo, something the immigrants in the West are already copying.

    You should be careful with the part in bold. You make that statement as if you are an expert on the demographics of Kosovo. I’ve already stated before the questionable nature of the official assertions about Kosovo’s demographics, but still, since Shiptars have a birth rate below 2.1 (minimum needed to sustain population numbers), it means that there will be no Shiptar demographic flood over Serbia.

    Here is a higher quality insight into the reality of Kosovo’s demographic situation.

    https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=sr&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Frs-lat.sputniknews.com%2Fkomentari%2F201710201113136988-malagurski-albanci-kosovo%2F

    The issue of mass Shiptar emigration from Kosovo is even admitted by pro-Shiptar/Albanian globohomo outlets:

    https://balkaninsight.com/2019/04/25/leaving-kosovo-legal-migration-upsurge-causes-depopulation-fears/

    OK, so let’s imagine that one day the geopolitical situation changes in favour of Serbia and the Serbian military enters Kosovo, what then? Other than clearing out the extremists and punishing the terrorists, what else? Do you really think that Serbs would majorly populate the province like Jews are doing in Palestine? I think not. I don’t think that even most of those Serbs who settled in Serbia as refugees from Kosovo would be willing to go back. Some maybe, but not many. I suppose some settlements could be encouraged through various financial incentives in some areas but I can’t see it taking off in a big way. Kosovo is important to Serbs but I don’t think they’re as fanatical as the Jews despite the uncompromising stance of some hardcore nationalists.

    The biggest obstacle for Serbs to return to Kosovo in the present moment is by far security. With the return of the Serbian Army and Serbian rule, the security issue is solved. Then it simply becomes an issue of economics, demographics and other things. Those are serious issue and they will either be successfully or unsuccessfully solved regardless of the Kosovo issue. Still, Serb birth rates on Kosovo are increasing which means that Kosovo gains additional importance as it is the future Serb demographic spring of life for Serbia.

    Also, since Shiptars are massively emigrating, the Serbian government could simply just encourage them to emigrate even more and dump them in the West, given the current nature of pro-migrant Western governments. It could easily be done by running Pristina Airport full time and transporting anywhere between several hundred to a few thousand Albanians per day into Western Europe.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9328852/albanian-gang-uk-sex-traffickers-cocaine-dealers/

    The UK and Germany would especially deserve to get culturally enriched by Shiptars for all their anti-Serb shit in the 1990’s and continuing anti-Serb politics to the present day. They can go and enjoy the “Albanian cultural enrichment” that they were so eager to bomb and harm Serbs in favor of 😛

    I still think some compromise will have to be found to satisfy both parties eventually.

    Really? Has a genuine compromise over much of anything ever been made in the Balkans that has survived the centuries?

    Why should Serbia recognize Kosovo when it has a lot to lose by doing so and nothing to gain from it?

    That has especially become clear now that even the West’s pathetic offer of EU membership doesn’t exist since even North Macedonia and Albania can’t join the EU … not that EU membership had a particularly high value to begin with, anyway.

    The fake country of Kosovo is an untenable artificial entity that will fail along with its US creator and other backers. Since 2008, the dominant rhetoric has already shifted from “Serbia must recognize Kosovo!” to, now in 2019, “Serbia and Kosovo have to negotiate”. Given the long term trend of things, the rhetoric or Overton window, along with practical reality could, over time, shift to “seperating Kosovo from Serbia was a bad idea, let’s practically reverse course while trying not to lose face” on the part of Kosovo’s backers. This is only a matter of when, not if.

  173. @Commentator Mike

    Well, here is an empirical test.

    For instance, you got short surveys of Croatian literature in various languages & you’ll see the same names mentioned. Except perhaps in one case, these surveys are written by local authorities in the field (I am not talking about literary value of these authors, just showing where they belong, according to the “world”):

    English

    https://www.britannica.com/art/Croatian-literature

    Hungarian

    http://szlavintezet.elte.hu/szlavanyagok/slav_civil/horvat-irodalom.htm

    Russian

    https://www.krugosvet.ru/enc/kultura_i_obrazovanie/literatura/HORVATSKAYA_LITERATURA.html

    Czech

    https://is.muni.cz/predmet/phil/podzim2014/CHA205

    https://is.muni.cz/el/1421/podzim2012/SBA205/Chorvatska_literatura_obdobi_renesance__humanismu_a_reformace.pdf

    Danish

    http://denstoredanske.dk/Kunst_og_kultur/Litteratur/Serbisk,_kroatisk_og_bosnisk_litteratur/Kroatien_(Litteratur)

    German

    https://www.wissen.de/lexikon/kroatische-literatur
    …..

    So, here you have overview of Croatian works & authors from c. 1000 AD to 20th C. It is the same as in Croatian school curricula.

    On the other hand, Serbs try, in their school curricula, to present c. 20-40 Croatian authors, from 15th to 18th C as if they were a part of Serbian literary heritage. Not anyone in the mentally sane world considers them to belong to the Serbian culture.

    After all- it is not: one side says this, another that…. In most (of course, not all) Croatian-Serbian disputes, Serbs are, basically- liars & swindlers.

    That’s the way life is.

    • Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous
  174. @Bardon Kaldian

    On the other hand, Serbs try, in their school curricula, to present c. 20-40 Croatian authors, from 15th to 18th C as if they were a part of Serbian literary heritage.

    Just because certain authors that came from the present territory of Croatia in past centuries does not mean that they were all ethnic Croats. Ethnicity and location do not always overlap.

    Croats are the ones trying to claim Nikola Tesla as a Croat even though he was an ethnic Serb (his father was a Serb Orthodox priest) and the Ustashe genocided his family.

    Get over it. You are fake scum. You will also never be anything else besides that, no matter how desperately you LARP as West and Central Europeans.

    Not anyone in the mentally sane world considers them to belong to the Serbian culture.

    You should rephrase that to the Croat-Vatican-NATO and anti-Serb world.

    After all- it is not: one side says this, another that…. In most (of course, not all) Croatian-Serbian disputes, Serbs are, basically- liars & swindlers.

    Of course, Croatians absolutely aren’t liars and swindlers with the fakeness of their ethno-national identity being engineered by their Vatican overlords in the 11th century, convertin, assimilating and Uniatizing the Serb population during Habsburg rule, irreversibly sabotaging Yugoslavia after being saved by Serbs from being partitioned by Italy, Austria and Hungary (then having the audacity to write garbage about “Greater Serbia” and pretend Croats were victims in both Yugoslavia’s), committing one of the most barbaric genocides and mass murders ever committed against any population, against Serbs, in all of history during WW2 and then obsessively lying and relativizing the about it for decades after, giving false promises to Krajina Serbs during the 1991-1995 war and then pathologically revising the history of the Yugoslav Wars to make it look like Croats were attacked by Serbs and victims of them even though Croats started the armed and violent seperatism along with Slovenia (not just that, but Croats started all the war crimes, massacres and ethnic cleansing at Vukovar, Zadar, Lika, Gospic, Sisak, Glina and Dalmatia etc.) …

    That’s the way life is.

    Probably the only thing I can agree with you on.

  175. @TheTotallyAnonymous

    Almost forgot to add that Croats committed mass murders and barbaric war crimes of a monumental amount during WW1 as a part of the Austro-Hungarian Army, especially in Bosnia and Macva. They included mass killings and rapes of Serb civilians with the mass killings usually done either by firing squads or by hangings. This is why the “Srbe na Vrbe” (Hang the Serbs from Willow Trees) quote by Slovenian Marko Natlacen is especially infamous as that is exactly what they did to Serbs in WW1. Also, lets not forget the 28th July pogrom and other anti-Serb pogroms and persecutions in Austria-Hungary before 1914.

    In general though, fully covering the extent of the mass murders, war crimes and genocide committed by Croats and other peoples’ against Serbs is truly a very deep and almost infinitely bottomless pit that people can devote their lifetimes to. Croat, Bosnian Muslim and Albanian crimes against Serbs are literally so suppressed and covered up that it is covered up even more than Black on White crime in the USA and migrant crimes against Europeans/US whites in present day …

  176. peterAUS says:
    @Commentator Mike

    Other than clearing out the extremists and punishing the terrorists, what else?

    Interesting that you can’t see that “what else”. Or, granted, maybe just prudent enough not to spell it out here. Don’t want to offend the sensibilities of the majority in this pub.

    I suggest taking a peek, again, at certain events in Croatia in August ’95.

  177. peterAUS says:
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    ….I think for anything to do with Kosovo, Serbia should follow the model of Russia’s takeover of Crimea (especially the “little Green men” infiltration in advance) and the Turkish military offensive against Kurds in Syria, or some mix of the sort….

    ….it would take the Serb Army at least 8 hours to reach all Serb enclaves…

    I see.

    You appear committed to the topic(s). Two quick questions:
    1. How many (say, percentage-wise) of your generation Serbs think and feel your way?
    2. What’s your take on J.Q.? Of that minority of your people who do think about topics discussed here most, if not all, know that all that is driven by Vatican/Germany/British/Americans. In that order most of the time.
    How about…. “them”? What is “their” role in your current, and future, plight?

    • Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous
  178. I see what you mean. It’s just that final solutions are never final and have a way of rebounding later on. At least in that region I’d like to see conflicts de-escalate. So as to not let some outsiders take advantage of it. Like no more brother wars and all that. There’s a flood of mud waiting there on the horizon to swamp the lot and it couldn’t care less about these European parochial disputes, unless perhaps to take some advantage of them. Let’s say there’s a few of you inside a castle under siege – is the best way to defend it by fighting each other?

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  179. Malacaay says:
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    It’s original name of the Serbs in the ancient Greek. You know derivatives now and by a derivative you refer to yourself. In our language, Srbin, Cerbin, Srbo, Srbalj, Serbin, et al are all derivatives of Serboi. It’s the same with Bosnians. Bosnjani, Bosoni, Bosnjaci, Bosanci, they are all derivative name of Bosnjani which was the original term of the Slavo people from the central Europa who settled there and started calling themselves by the name of a river (Bosna) as it’s in Slavic tradition. Regarding Croats the same is true also. Hrvati, Chrobati, Crovati, Rvati etc. At any rate, some use derivative, while others stick to original. I see that wiki page has started adding Croats as Sarmatians also. hahaha First that extremely low IQ propaganda level which used White Slavs (as white Croats and white Serbs) in order to unite us, now this… it’s getting dumber and dumber. Only Illyrian origin (for part of your nation is made of our people) and Slavic language is which common for both of us, nothing else connects us. It’s Teletubbies level propaganda anyhow. I’d have thought that fake westerners a little smarter than that. Obviously they are of no ancients’ material. When you hear, that is read, their thoughts (except for Athenians who did err a lot), you just don’t find any logical errors. They simply don’t exist, like they are made of titanium logical composition. What a superiority this 2.500 years old age holds over this disgusting liberal age of Teletubbies, mental disabilities and degeneracies of all kinds. Ancients came from our world, from Haemus Mons peninsula.

  180. peterAUS says:
    @Commentator Mike

    It’s just that final solutions are never final and have a way of rebounding later on.

    Yes……
    As with Native Indians, for example, in USA.
    As for that “later on” I am sure that Croats lose their sleep when thinking about reversing that Summer ’95. Or Serbs when reversing Volksdeutsche thing from ’45. Or Turks with Armenians. Or…..

    At least in that region I’d like to see conflicts de-escalate.

    Yes……….
    I’d like to be left alone by The System and not hated by all those “oppressed” around me. Doesn’t work that way, I am afraid.

    As for

    There’s a flood of mud waiting there on the horizon to swamp the lot and it couldn’t care less about these European parochial disputes, unless perhaps to take some advantage of them.

    Yes. Serbs and Croats, at this stage, are incapable of seeing it.

    Let’s say there’s a few of you inside a castle under siege – is the best way to defend it by fighting each other?

    They don’t see it. Yet.
    Croats, for example, do prefer the “muds” to Serbs. The region of Croatia “emptied” of Serbs in that Summer is being considered as dumping ground of the “migrants”.
    Make of that what you will.

    The “line” you’ve been thinking about will be more up North/North-West/North-East.
    My thought, anyway.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  181. @peterAUS

    As with Native Indians, for example, in USA.

    I was thinking of some others closer in time and space. But not to labour the point, there are various ways of looking at it – like what’s going on in US now – like karmic revenge by: well those mestizos coming in from the south tend to be mixed Amerindians.

    Croats, for example, do prefer the “muds” to Serbs. The region of Croatia “emptied” of Serbs in that Summer is being considered as dumping ground of the “migrants”.

    This could apply to others there too and a wider area of the Balkans. If they each wanted their own ethnically pure areas then why allow anyone other inside? But yes, when blinded by a tree if standing a foot from it you could miss the forest behind it, kind of not see the big picture.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  182. Malacaay says:
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    Serbo dog, you got what you asked for. Quit howling, barking and yelping. You won’t find any sympathy of manage to attain any benefit. You tried to colonize us, and you were punished accordingly. As for “most brutal genocide and mass murder,” Serbo dog, losing 230.000 Serbs from your 8 million strong population (of which less than 60k died in concentration camps) is not a “genocide,” let alone “most brutal.” Genocide is what happened to real Americans, so-called “Indians.” That was the most brutal extermination in history: less than 3 million of people who roamed all of North American continent remained, while your population, a single Slavo-Sarmatian tribe, stands at 10 million. You were never more numerous than you are today. Why are you whining Serbo? I think you desire to go back to your Caspian region. Your bitching is hurting our ears. The truth is that you are disgusting whorish kind which hasn’t managed to learn Illyrian traditions, values and behavior in a millenia. Instead of leaning Illyrian ways, you want to force your own. That’s not very nice Serbo. Not nice at all.

    • Replies: @Malacaay
  183. Malacaay says:

    Have you seen all those fake amero killers parading happy, cheerful and delighted that their filthy anglo-land was founded on the greatest genocide world has ever seen, hmm? And they even have the gull to speak of human rights and whatnot — them killers and genocidal mass murderers whose disgusting, exploitative, parasitical liberal land was founded on the greatest genocide world has ever seen. Now if these disgusting fake western kinds – who consider themselves to be paragons of virtues nonetheless – behave so despicably, why shouldn’t everyone else? Why should those who have so little uphold standards which are hurtful to their interests, yet those who have so much… want even more and show no signs of remorse or willingness to make things right by paying reparations to those whom they wronged most brutally by almost exterminating them because they wanted their land, their riches and treasure so badly and start leaving their native lands finally, lands which they polluted, pillaged and contaminated to great extent?

  184. Malacaay says:
    @Malacaay

    And I should point out that the same holds true for Croatos from Pannonia and Bosnians. Bosnians are Turks and kajkavians from Pannonia are spreading Slovenians culture because they are Slovenians. We have had enough of you. On Illyrian land there shall be Illyrian laws. On Illyrian land there shall be our culture. It weren’t us who were coming to Slavic scum in their Carpathian mountains, basin and the lands northward, it was Slavs who came here. It wasn’t us who came to Serbs to their Caspian region, it was the Serbs who came here. Those who do not wish to uphold and cherish Illyrian ancestral ways, culture, tradition are free to leave. On Illyrian land no Slavic and Sarmatian dogs can be allowed to roam freely, establishing their lairs, domains and realms.

  185. peterAUS says:
    @Commentator Mike

    “We” will get there, in time.

    On macro-level ethnic cleansing bad. Population displacement/replacement O.K. In a certain direction, that is.
    On micro-level segregation bad. White flight good.

    The only important thing is what side of that process “we” are going to be. Doesn’t look promising at this stage.
    The thing is…very easy to reverse the process, IF, the mindset is right.
    All this game is really about….when “we” get it will it be simply too late. Nothing more…nothing less.

    …..blinded…..

    Yep.

    But, let’s not be too harsh on them. “We” made them that way. Forced, actually.

    Croats and Serbs did try to pull something in ’92/93 there but “we” stepped in.
    Croats, being smart, recognized the game and switched. Serbs didn’t.
    For the service Croats got rewarded. Serbs punished and are kept punished. Will be kept punished save some miracle.

    Both Serbs and Croats can say:”listen, we did try and YOU..yes..YOU…stomped on us. So…your turn now; we’ll watch. Good luck”.

    Makes sense?

  186. @peterAUS

    1. How many (say, percentage-wise) of your generation Serbs think and feel your way?

    Well, I know that I am certainly not alone in my attitudes, and that some Serbs are actually more extreme than me, although they tend not to think too deeply about things. If it comes down to how they feel, then I would state that around 60-70% of Serbs share the same sentiments as me, even if they’re not fully conscious of it or have not fully developed such attitudes. The percentage that think this way would have to be smaller though, probably only around 20-30%, even if they have slightly different interpretations of certain matters. Unfortunately, I would state that at least 30-40% of Serbs in my generation are only materialist or even Liberal minded which means that about 20-30% of them don’t really care too much either way, while certainly 10% of them are just complete self-haters and overall corrosive in every way imaginable.

    2. What’s your take on J.Q.? Of that minority of your people who do think about topics discussed here most, if not all, know that all that is driven by Vatican/Germany/British/Americans. In that order most of the time.

    My opinion is that the J.Q. is a real issue but that certain groups in the West tend to over-dramatize and overdo things a bit on that issue. So my opinion is that they are powerful, relevant and problematic, but that they are not the absolute be all and end all of everything. As for the percentage of Serbs aware of the issue, I would state that it is around 10-15%, certainly not higher than that. Technically the ADL did classify 45% of Serbia’s population as “anti-Semitic”, but since their criteria simply includes simply recognizing Jewish power or disapproving of any problematic Jewish behaviors instead of outright hating Jews, then the real percentage is obviously lower.

    As for Vatican/Germany/British/Americans, far more Serbs are aware that these groups have had some sort of negative role in Serb/Balkan affairs (Serbs that take the time to think are basically aware of all of them and their basic roles) than regarding the J.Q. group’s role in Balkan affairs. I would say that the Vatican is just popularly disliked and hated (to a slightly lesser degree), with the British following as 2nd most disliked/hated (bar some fringe UK/Britphilia, e.g. Srdja Trifkovic and a small Serb UK community) after the Vatican.

    I think that Serb opinions towards the USA and Germany are mixed and divided in that some Serbs consider it unfortunate that those powers are aligned against Serbs and even blame themselves for this. Other Serbs just flat out dislike the USA and/or Germany, especially for their anti-Serb actions in the present and 20th century past. The Serbs that criticize themselves for having these powers turn against Serbs usually do so much more towards Germany/Austria and even go so far as to believe that Serbia should never have defied Austria-Hungary from 1903-1914 and that they should have collaborated better with the Axis in WW2.

    I would say there is much more hostility to the USA than to Germany due to the 1990’s and present, although there is indeed resentment towards Germany. Anyway, the reality is that the USA and Germany are 2 large, powerful and economically successful countries which have large Serb diasporas, so Serbs cannot afford to openly tell the USA and Germany to “go and fuck yourselves”, even though that is what they would instinctively like to do so. In the future though, the possibility does exist, but it is by no means certain, that Trump makes some pro-Serb geo-political moves, but we will have to wait and see.

    Anyway, I think that Vucic is leading a very wise politics towards the USA, Germany, UK and West in general by doing everything he can to secure Serb economic, geo-political and other interests while avoiding to antagonize those powers as much as possible. Vucic is purposely being duplicitous, cunning and deceptive with his public statements and appearances, but as the results have already shown, and will prove further in the future, he has Serb interests in mind first and foremost, which given the present circumstances, he has managed to secure somewhat successfully. There’s still a very long way to go, of course.

    How about…. “them”? What is “their” role in your current, and future, plight?

    By “them”, I assume you mean the J.Q. group?

    Well, I would have to say it is overall negative, although there are a few positive exceptions. In general though, the whole Serbs-Jews friendship thing has really, I would say, been ultimately unsuccessful considering the behavior of Madeleine Albright, Wesley Clark, George Soros, Warren Zimmerman, Richard Holbrooke, and a few others towards Serbs. They bear a large amount of responsibility for the disasters of the Serb people in the 1990’s. Promoting the whole Serbs and Jews are ancient friends, together, and alike as peoples’ thing was a bold and creative strategy by the Serbian Academy of Sciences and Serb intellectual community in the 1980’s and early 1990’s, but given the outcome of the 1990’s, I don’t think it has really worked out too well.

    It has produced small results in terms of Israel not recognizing Kosovo and Gideon Greif doing his thing, but that’s just way too little benefit for too much effort (it’s little known, but a few years ago, Bosnia blocked by one vote international recognition of Palestine, because of Republika Srpska). Still, while I don’t think it’s wise for Serbs to go full 180 degrees “anti-Semitic”, they certainly should start making overtures towards western “White Nationalist” communities and movements as they would be undoubtedly inclined to have pro-Serb inclinations against Albanians and Bosnian Muslims (they would not support Serbs against Croats though). That’s the vibe I’ve been detecting from some of those types, even including you. Anyway, their attitudes unfortunately don’t really matter unless they should somehow gain some form of direct power.

    Overall, regarding Serbs and Jews, I think that a whole book along the lines of a Serb version of Aleksander Solzhenitsyn’s 200 Years Together could be written on the issue. Who knows, maybe that’s something I should also do in my lifetime …

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  187. @Jazman

    Goran Šarić is a laughable clown, shrewdly exploiting Serbian stupidity & gullibility. This man has not a degree in history, any period; he has, I think, studied theology in one of Croatia’s regional seminaries. Not only that he is not a professional expert of anything; even as an amateur, the guy is a clown.

    I’ve become aware of his existence only when one YouTuber told me to see any one of this man’s videos. Complete charlatan & bonkers – so, the ideal for average Serbian media public.

  188. Malacaay says:

    It should be pointed out that wars in 90s did produce tremendous success in certain things. I will point out just a single one to demonstrate depth of occurred change. In both Yugoslavias, Serbs used to be very loud kind which thought I conquered us and our lands were theirs. There used to be saying among them in Croatia, “Where there is one Serb, there is Serbia.” But you will never hear them saying that. Why not? Because of fear. Fear occurred amongst Serbos. Fear is the tool by which animals are governed. Animals can be ruled only by fear, and there is no bigger humanoid animal than nomads. Nomads are universally hated kind amongst all. You can best see it in Europa. In eastern Europa Tatar nomadic dogs who call themselves Russians are utterly despised and universally hated kind among every nation there. Balts hate them. Slavs hate them, even though these dogs wear that Slavic culture but not behavior, beliefs, traditions, values, ethics, ideals, scruples, mores and morals. Serbo dogs are universally hated amongst all on Haemus Mons peninsula: even their own Orthodox brothers don’t like them (and some even hate them). Nomadic behavior will produce that. Then there are the worst of nomads — those Turkic dogs. They are so hated, despised, abhorred and detested by everyone that if you just armed their closest neighbors, they would rip them apart and literally feast on their flesh. Nobody in the whole world is hated as Turkish dogs. When their fellow Arab muslimos hate them, you cannot even imagine level of hatred they inspire in the rest of us. Even 4-legged animals come as virtuous species relative to nomadic animals.

    That said, I should point out that Serbo dogs have no place on Haemus Mons peninsula. You have proven yourself to be a blight only your nomadic Turkish cousins managed to surpass. We don’t want that nomadic Iranian blight, and we don’t need that Iranic nomadic blight. They can keep their gypsy nature and love for negroids, there is no such inclination in us. We have no desire to participate in some kind of irano-turkish-gypsy squalor, we desire to see our world cleansed from the contamination and defilement brought by invasive nomadic species from the east. Our craving has always been liberation of our sacred places and annihilation of invasive species that came from central Asia. All of this means that you should be looking toward your native lands in Caspian world, how to migrate back and take what Tatars took from you. Our short union we had in the last century is over and is thankfully never coming back. There are far more valuable living northward with whom we can have to settle our world with than nomadic Iranic filth. Yes, people who will actually bring intelligent life and add strength to our world, instead of bringing us down and spreading decay and ruin. What I think you should do is pack up and leave for Tataria. There is a disease infecting our world, and you, together with your nomadic cousins, have been causing it for the last 1.500 years. Our world shall no longer suffer nomads, muslimes, Iranians and Turks.

    3 options stand before you; either you:
    submit
    get slaughtered
    or flee toward “greener pastures” like nomads have always done.

    Restoration of our world will involve the medicine of the 3 mentioned antidotes.

  189. Malacaay says:

    We won’t become Italia, that disgusting, dirty land of negroid scum. We have Italic scum Gari Capelli serving as our minister of tourism and that piece that of shit is always speaking for liberation of this and that, how we need more migrants, more liberalism, more theft, more capitalistic exploitation, etc. Look at this scum.

    https://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gari_Cappelli

    He’s best friends with Ashkenazis like all Italics are.

    https://narod.hr/sport/gari-cappelli-primio-garija-kasparova

    Somewhere down the road Italics will end up with such vast sins against native European population that their extermination will be called for as only remedy for their transgressions, offenses and sins against native European population. I am looking forward to that day. There is something about that dishonorable infectious rats that is really pissing me off. They have caused much misfortune and destruction in our world over the ages… at least as much as the Turks and other nomads did. But using Jews as their fronts and spreading devastation among white Caucasian race and serve as their deflecting shield for all the blame… tut-tut, Italics. You have bitten too much this time around and it’s going to choke you. Now all of Caucasian white race is going to hate them. That’s good. We never liked them anyways. But obviously they feel safe enough to do that… controlling Russos to serve as military arm now that their crimes in USA have caused the death of civilization there.

  190. Malacaay says:

    We are all under occupation of Italics. Italics control Russos, Turks (since the beginning of the last century “revolutions” of “liberty, equality, fraternity.” They control all of Europe and USA since the beginning. Everywhere you look we are under the occupation of Italics. They have managed to remain unseen all this time, but not anymore. Now we need to free ourselves especially since they are actively working on our demise and have erected parasitic economic schemes in order to milk us and work us as much as possible in order to enrich themselves. Yes, it’s all Italics fault. All the illnesses our societies are suffering from is caused by them.

  191. peterAUS says:
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    ….Promoting the whole Serbs and Jews are ancient friends, together, and alike as peoples’ thing was a bold and creative strategy by the Serbian Academy of Sciences and Serb intellectual community in the 1980’s and early 1990’s, but given the outcome of the 1990’s, I don’t think it has really worked out too well….

    So much for that “intellectual” community.Or…dumb.
    Not that they much learned since looks like it.

    …should start making overtures towards western “White Nationalist” communities and movements as they would be undoubtedly inclined to have pro-Serb inclinations against Albanians and Bosnian Muslims (they would not support Serbs against Croats though)……their attitudes unfortunately don’t really matter unless they should somehow gain some form of direct power.

    Yep.
    Beats trying to be friends with “them”, though. That’s just crazy.

    • Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous
  192. @peterAUS

    Beats trying to be friends with “them”, though. That’s just crazy.

    I think it was quite a brave and bold idea which was closer to success than many imagine, but for the most part, in practical terms, you’re right.

  193. @TheTotallyAnonymous

    Can you even process through your thick skull how insane and detached from reality the Croat garbage you’re shilling for sounds?

    How is he “shilling”?

    • Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous
  194. @silviosilver

    How is he “shilling”?

    Malacaay is technically shilling because he considers himself to be some kind of ancient Illyrian native of the “Haemus Mons” peninsula, even though he is most probably an ethnic Croat for all intents and purposes. Since he considers himself to be some kind of unique ancient Illyrian detached from present Balkan ethnicities, he is practically shilling for Croats against Serbs.

    • Replies: @Malacaay
  195. Malacaay says:
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    You are obviously as intelligent as a typical Serbo dog, which is to say that you chronically lack the mentioned (you don’t even understand intentions correctly). We are of Illyrian origin, simpleton; and we are native to Haemus Mons (you refer to it by Turkish name “Balkan” — just so you know; it obviously causes a great deal of confusion in you: O how could we use our own native name for that which your nomadic Turkic cousins named in their own language, hmm?). Yes, Serbo dog, our origin is Illyrian, and we are not detached from our roots, origins and history, as you can see it; we very much cherish it. Isn’t shilling a coin? What do you mean I am shilling for us against your Serb kind? I am not “shilling” you, Serbo, I am educating you (although I am certainly not going to be “for you” unless you serve as an ally in some endeavor or we have interest for being “for you” you stupid dog).

  196. cassandra says:
    @peterAUS

    The problem with Serbs, or their own problem, is simple: a rejection of the West.

    Au contraire, monsieur: the problem with the West is that it can’t accept the Slavs, or any independent state east of the Rhine. In post 2000 Russia, for instance, Putin was interested in opening relations with the West based on a peer-to-peer basis, but between missile treaties and trade policies, the Anglo/American Zionists (AAZ’s) would have none of it. Our way or the highway, even after western neoliberalism economics had been proven to be a greater catastrophe than communism.

    The parochial attitude of the AAZ’s actually extends further west to Germany, which has been horrifically villified and punished for its own temerity to espouse independent development. Germany’s program to develop as an international nation as a counterpoint to British institutions was frowned upon and eventually crushed in WWI. Germany’s moral outrage against the hypocritical strictures of the Treaties of Versailles and St. Germain led to the accession of Hitler and his policies, whose extreme practices have ultimately been used to stifle non-conformist discussion even more. Merkel’s sacrifice of German nationalism to the EU is applauded by the West, but parties opposing her culturally suicidal policies are demonized.

    Please, refrain from platitudes.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  197. peterAUS says:
    @cassandra

    The problem with Serbs, or their own problem, is simple: a rejection of the West.

    Au contraire, monsieur….Russia…Putin….Anglo/American Zionists….Germany….St. Germain…Hitler….Merkel….blah…blah…Please, refrain from platitudes.

    “Serbs” or “Serbia”, not once.
    Fitting.

  198. Milan says:
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    This discussion reminds me to Hilary Clinton’s defeat in the election of 2016: Dems don’t want to say she was a weak candidate, with wrong message, who didn’t understand the time and situation in which the country was. Instead they scream Russia, Russia! Here, many don’t want to acknowledge any of many Draza’s errors and weakness, instead they scream Tito, communists, Free masons, Pope!

    1. I know that there were various types of Chetniks in WWII. Some, like Kosta Pecanac and his real Chetniks openly collaborated with Germans in Serbia, not to mention Ljotic and his ‘Chetniks’ because he was a pre-war fascist. It is evident that JViO was something else. Unfortunately, a failed project.

    2. All other Chetniks were Serb patriots, who believed they would, with the help of English, win the war and bring back King Peter II from London. Almost all Serbian people wanted it. Colonel Draza organized Yugoslav Army in the Fatherland (JVuO) and Serb people wanted him to succeed. In the same time, Tito and his 8,000 communists decided to go to war to help Red Army fighting Germans, but also to help liberate the country and build a more just society. Tito went to Ravna Gora, Draza’s HQ, and offered cooperation in the fight for the liberation of the country. As a royalist, Draza rejected cooperation with communist Tito and decided to fight and destroy him and his communists. It lasted for years. At the end of war, Tito had an Army of 800.000 people, liberated the country of Germans with help of Red Army and Allies, and created a Republic. At the end of the war Draza had 10,000 soldiers of his JVuO, that were destroyed in the last battle with Partisans at Zelengora mountain in March of 1945.

    3. Draza’s goal was not to fight for liberation of the country, but to defeat Partisans, no matter how. (The country would liberate the Allies anyway.) So, the Chetniks in Montenegro (Djurisic) and Dalmatia (Djujic) cooperated with Italian fascists in the fight against the Partisans. All of them recognized Draza Mihailovic as their commander for being commander of the Jugoslav Army in the Fatherland. In Bosnia the situation was different. There, there were no ‘JVuO’ troops in it, but all Chetniks detachments recognized Draza as their military commander. Those in Italian occupation zone cooperated with Italians, and those in German occupation zone, most of them, cooperated with Germans and Ustashas in the fight against Partisans. (This couldn’t be done without Draza approval.) In Serbia proper after the defeat of Partisans and Chetniks in western Serbia at the end of 1941, Draza sent his soldiers to join quisling Nedic’s ‘army’. Together, they fought remaining Partisans and killed their families and sympathizers. (Sorry, after 1941, I’ve never heard they ever fought Germans in Serbia.)

    4. Does the following sound as cooperation with the Germans? After the capitulation of Italy, Germans sent their own troops to the regions previously held by the Italians. They didn’t have enough troops to prevent penetration of Tito’s Partisans from Eastern Bosnia to Serbia. So, they ‘gave’ 17 counties in Eastern Bosnia (in NDH), at that time mostly controlled by Tito’s Partisans, to the Chetniks of Draza Mihailovic. “Destroy the Partisans and take these 17 counties!” Draza sent the best troops of his JVuO, about 12,500 solders, commanded by Dragoslav Racic. He mobilized another 2,500 local Serbs, and local Chetniks units joined as well. The whole operation was called ‘The Third Serb Uprising”. All Draza’s soldiers got German ‘permits’ for free passage and arms from the quisling Nedic’s army. General Draza with his HQ was following these troops. So, they easily took Visegrad and Rogatica from Ustashas, and then turned towards the territory held by Partisans. Just to be defeated and destroyed in a day! They had to run back to Serbia.
    So, Draza didn’t cooperate with Germans openly, but did it in this way. (Somewhere else I explained their role in the battle for Serbia and withdrawal of his troops from Serbia (both in the cooperation with Germans). OK, it was not open official clear-cut cooperation (as other Chetnik commanders did), however, people on the ground and Partisans knew what was going on.

    The point that I was trying to make is that Saker got it all wrong, Draza is not the man who should be role model for Serbia, God forbid. Good, he organized JVuO, but he didn’t know how to win the war. He did everything wrong! He ignored the advice of English military missions to stop fighting Partisans, to unite forces with them (as Churchill and Stalin did) and start fighting Germans. He tolerated cooperation of his commanders with Italian fascists and quisling Nedic; he and his troops participated in the battle of Neretva against the Partisans, in full coordination with Germans, Italians and Ustashas; he didn’t follow orders of General Wilson, the commander of Allied Forces in the Mediterranean; he was ejected from the anti-Hitlerian coalition by Stalin, Churchill and Roosevelt; he didn’t obey King’s order to come under the command of Marshal Tito; he didn’t participate in the liberation of the country; thanks to him the monarchy perished. Imagine you have these ‘achievements’ on your resume and some people scream, yes, we want you to lead us! That man was a total failure. He finished as he deserved.

    Serbia and Serbs had great military commanders in WWI and WWII who should be celebrated.

    • Troll: TheTotallyAnonymous
  199. Milan says:

    Sorry: (The country would be liberated by Allies anyway)

  200. Pandour says: • Website

    Not even the most severely deranged madman could have penned this article.All the authors claims belong to the realm of fantasy and fiction.For one,he speaks of -The cowardly slaughter of 1,500,000 Serbs by Croatians,Bosnian Muslims,Albanians,Bulgarians and Hungarians-.The documented reality is virtually the other way around.From 1912 to 1990,the wars from 1991 on aside,Serbian royalist-communist expansionist and colonialist policies , often in peacetime,killed hundreds of thousands of Croats,Albanians,Bosnian Muslims,Macedonians,Montenegrins and members of the German and Hungarian minority.The author states that he is the descendant of Russian emigres who fled Bolshevik terror.During WW II Serb royalists.Četniks,in the Independent state of Croatia killed nearly 200 Tsarist emigres,mostly civilians,because they voiced support for the Croat state.Serb communists extradited numerous Tsarist emigres to the Soviet Union.In the final analysis,the author is no friend of the Serbs.If he wished them well,he would have done some serious reading and not utilized long-ago debunked Serb and other nonsense.The Serbs continue to live in their own falsified mythology-to their own detriment.

  201. Pandour says: • Website

    When the Serbs are not killing their neighbours en masse they are killing each other.On May 29th 1868 they killed their ruler Count Mihailo Obrenović III.In 1903 they killed their King Aleksandar Obrenović and Queen Draga,the Premier Dimitrije Cincar- Marković,the Defense Minister Milovan Pavlović and two of the Queens brothers.On March 12th 2003 they killed their Premier Zoran Đinđić.Most recently they killed the head of the Kosovo Serbs Oliver Ivanović.During the Milošević regime to the present dozens of prominent media,political,police and business figures were killed including the former President of Serbia Ivan Stambolić,murdered on the orders of Milošević.The Serbian mafia is ranked as the 8th most notorious mafija in the world and in the struggle for turf between rival clans dozens have been killed over the past decade alone-28 in 2018.Its no surprise that Serb mafioso Željko Ražnatović Arkan,responsible for the death of hundreds in Croatia and Bosnia as the head of a group of paramilitary thugs is a national hero in Serbia.Arkan was whacked by other mafiosos in the hotel Intercontinental on Jan.15th 2000.In Serbia there has always been a symbiosis between those in power and criminal elements.Arkan prior to the war was trained by the Serb police in burglary and sent to Western Europe to ply his trade,which speaks volumes on the nature of the Serb-dominated former Yugoslav regime.Thus it is no wonder that they murder the heads of other nationalities.In 1928 in the state parliament in Belgrade a Serb assassin with the blessings of the ruling Serb regime killed the leading Croat politician of his day Stjepan Radić,his brother Pavle Radić and Đuro Basariček and wounded two other Croat representatives.

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