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Can and Should Russia Stop the War in the Caucasus?
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This war is officially a war between Azerbaijan and the (unrecognized) Republic of Nagorno Karabakh (RNK) aka “Republic of Artsakh” (ROA) which I shall refer to simply as Nagorno Karabakh or “NK”. As is often the case, the reality is much more complicated. For one thing, Erdogan’s Turkey has been deeply involved since Day 1 (and, really, even much before that) while Armenia has been backing NK to the hilt since the breakup of the Soviet Union. It is even worse: Turkey is a member of NATO while Armenia is a member of the CSTO. Thus a war started over a relatively small and remote area could, in theory, trigger an international nuclear war. The good news here is that nobody in NATO or the CSTO wants such a war, especially since technically speaking the NK is not part of Armenia (Armenia has not even recognized this republic so far!) and, therefore, not under the protection of the CSTO. And since there have been no attacks on Turkey proper, at least so far, NATO also has no reason to get involved.

I should mention here that in terms of international law, NK is an integral part of Azerbaijan. Still, almost everybody agrees that there is a difference between NK proper and the kind of security zone the army of NK created around NK (see map)

(note: the Nakhichevan Autonomous Republic is part of Azerbaijan)
(note: the Nakhichevan Autonomous Republic is part of Azerbaijan)

The reality on the ground, however, is very different, so let’s look at the position of each actor in turn, beginning with the party which started the war: Azerbaijan.

Azerbaijan has been reforming and rearming its military since the Azeri forces got comprehensively defeated in the 1988-1994 war. Furthermore, for President Aliev this war represents what might well be the best and last chance to defeat the NK and Armenian forces. Most observers agree that should Aliev fail to achieve at least an appearance of victory he will lose power.

Armenia would have been quite happy to keep the status quo and continue to form one country with the NK de facto while remaining two countries de jure. Still, living in the tough and even dangerous “neighborhood” of the Caucasus, the Armenians never forgot that they are surrounded by more or less hostile countries just like they also remained acutely aware of Erdogan’s neo-Ottoman ideology which, sooner or later, would make war inevitable.

Iran, which is often forgotten, is not directly involved in the conflict, at least so far, but has been generally sympathetic to Armenia, primarily because Erdogan’s neo-Ottoman ideology represents a danger for the entire region, including Iran.

Turkey has played a crucial behind the scenes role in the rearmament and reorganization of Azeri forces. Just as was the case in Libya, Turkish attack drones have been used with formidable effectiveness against NK forces, in spite of the fact that the Armenians have some very decent air defenses. As for Erdogan himself, this war is his latest attempt to paint himself as some kind of neo-Ottoman sultan which will reunite all the Turkic people under his rule.

One of the major misconceptions about this conflict is the assumption that Russia has always been, and will always be, on the side of Armenia and the NK, but while this was definitely true for pre-1917 Russia, this is not the case today at all. Why?

Let’s examine the Russian position in this conflict.

First, let’s get the obvious out of the way: Armenia (proper, as opposed to NK) is a member of the CSTO and should anybody (including Azerbaijan and/or Turkey) attack Armenia, Russia would most definitely intervene and stop the attack, either by political or even by military means. Considering what Turkey has done to the Armenian people during the infamous Armenian Genocide of 1914-1923 this makes perfectly good sense: at least now the Armenian people know that Russia will never allow another genocide to take place. And the Turks know that too.

And yet, things are not quite that simple either.

For example, Russia did sell a lot of advanced weapon systems to Azerbaijan (see here for one good example). In fact, relations between Vladimir Putin and Ilham Aliyev are famously very warm. And while it is true that Azerbaijan left the CSTO in 1999, Russia and Azerbaijan have retained a very good relationship which some even characterize as a partnership or even an alliance.

Furthermore, Azerbaijan has been a much better partner to Russia than Armenia, especially since the Soros-financed “color revolution” of 2018 which put Nikol Pashinian in power. Ever since Pashinian got to power, Armenia has been following the same kind of “multi-vector” policy which saw Belarus’ Lukashenko try to ditch Russia and integrate into the EU/NATO/US area of dominance. The two biggest differences between Belarus and Armenia are a) Belarusians and Russians are the same people and b) Russia cannot afford to lose Belarus whereas Russia has really zero need for Armenia.

On the negative side, not only has Azerbaijan left the CSTO in 1999, but Azerbaijan has also joined the openly anti-Russian GUAM Organization (which is headquartered in Kiev).

ORDER IT NOW

Next, there is the Turkey-Erdogan factor as seen from Russia. Simply put, the Russians will never trust any Turk who shares Erdogan’s neo-Ottoman worldview and ideology. Russia has already fought twelve full-scale wars against the Ottomans and she has no desire to let the Turks trigger another one (which they almost did when they shot down a Russian Su-24M over northern Syria). Of course, Russia is much more powerful than Turkey, at least in military terms, but in political terms an open war against Turkey could be disastrous for Russian foreign and internal policy objectives. And, of course, the best way for Russia to avoid such a war in the future is to make absolutely sure that the Turks realize that should they attack they will be suffering a crushing defeat in a very short time. So far, this has worked pretty well, especially after Russia saved Erdogan from the US-backed coup against him.

Some observers have suggested that Russia and Armenia being Christian, the former has some kind of moral obligation towards the latter. I categorically disagree. My main reason to disagree here is that Russians now are acutely aware of the disgusting lack of gratitude of our (supposed) “brothers” and (supposed) “fellow Christians” have shown as soon as Russia was in need.

Most Armenians are not Orthodox Christians, but members of the Armenian Apostolic Church, which are miaphysites/monophysites. They are also not Slavs.

The ONLY slavic or Orthodox people who did show real gratitude for Russia have been the Serbs. All the rest of them have immediately rushed to prostitute themselves before Uncle Shmuel and have competed with each other for the “honor” of deploying US weapons systems targeted at Russia. The truth is that like every superpower, Russia is too big and too powerful to have real “friends” (Serbia being a quite beautiful exception to this rule). The Russian Czar Alexander III famously said that “Russia only has two true allies: her army and her navy”. Well, today the list is longer (now we could add the Aerospace forces, the FSB, etc.), but in terms of external allies or friends, the Serbian people (as opposed to some of the Serbian leaders) are the only ones out there which are true friends of Russia (and that, in spite of the fact that under Elstin and his “democratic oligarchs” Russia shamefully betrayed a long list of countries and political leaders, including Serbia).

Then there is the religious factor which, while crucial in the past, really plays no role whatsoever in this conflict. Oh sure, political leaders on both sides like to portray themselves as religious, but this is just PR. The reality is that both the Azeris and the Armenians place ethnic considerations far above any religious ones, if only because, courtesy of the militant atheism of the former USSR, many, if not most, people in Armenia, Azerbaijan and even Russia nowadays are agnostic secularists with no more than a passing interest for the “spiritual values which shaped their national identity” (or something along these lines).

One major concern for Russia is the movement of Turkish-run Takfiris from Syria to Azerbaijan. The Russians have already confirmed that this has taken place (the French also reported this) and, if true, that would give Russia the right to strike these Takfiris on Azeri soil. So far, this threat is minor, but if it becomes real, we can expect Russian cruise missiles to enter the scene.

Finally, there are major Azeri and Armenian communities in Russia, which means two things: first, Russia cannot allow this conflict to sneak across the borders and infect Russia and, second, there are millions of Russians who will have ties, often strong ones, to both of these countries.

Though they are not currently officially involved, we still need to look, at least superficially, at the Empire’s view of this conflict. To summarize it I would say that the Empire is absolutely delighted with this crisis which is the third one blowing up on Russia’s doorstep (the other two being the Ukraine and Belarus). There is really very little the Empire can do against Russia: the economic blockade and sanctions totally failed, and in purely military terms Russia is far more powerful than the Empire. Simply put: the Empire simply does not have what it takes to take on Russia directly, but setting off conflicts around the Russia periphery is really easy.

For one thing, the internal administrative borders of the USSR bear absolutely no resemblance to the places of residence of the various ethnicities of the former Soviet Union. Looking at them one would be excused for thinking that they were drawn precisely to generate the maximal amount of tension between the many ethnic groups that were cut into separate pieces. There is also no logic in accepting the right of the former Soviet Republics to secede from the Soviet Union, but then denying the same right to those local administrative entities which now would want to separate from a newly created republic which they don’t want to be part of.

Second, many, if not most, of the so-called “countries” and “nations” which suddenly appeared following the collapse of the Soviet Union have no historical reality whatsoever. As a direct result, these newborn “nations” had no historical basis to root themselves in, and no idea what independence really means. Some nations, like the Armenians, have deep roots as far back as antiquity, but their current borders are truly based on nothing at all. Whatever may be the case, it has been extremely easy for Uncle Shmuel to move into these newly independent states, especially since many (or even most) of these states saw Russia as the enemy (courtesy of the predominant ideology of the Empire which was imposed upon the mostly clueless people of the ex-Soviet periphery). The result? Violence, or even war, all around that periphery (which the Russians think of as their “near abroad”).

I think that most Russian people are aware that while there has been a major price to pay for this, the cutting away of the ex-Soviet periphery from Russia has been a blessing in disguise. This is confirmed by innumerable polls which show that the Russian people are generally very suspicious of any plans involving the use of the Russian Armed Forces outside Russia (for example, it took all of Putin’s “street cred” to convince the Russian people that the Russian military intervention in Syria was a good idea).

There is also one more thing which we must always remember: for all the stupid US and western propaganda about Russia and, later, the USSR being the “prison of the people” (small nations survived way better in this “prison” than they did under the “democratic” rule of European colonists worldwide!), the truth is that because of the rabidly russophobic views of Soviet Communists (at least until Stalin – he reversed this trend) the Soviet “peripheral” Republics all lived much better than the “leftover Russia” which the Soviets called the RSFSR. In fact, the Soviet period was a blessing in many ways for all the non-Russian republics of the Soviet Union and only now, under Putin, has this trend finally been reversed. Today Russia is much richer than the countries around her periphery and she has no desire to squander that wealth on a hostile and always ungrateful periphery. The bottom line is this: Russia owes countries such as Armenia or Azerbaijan absolutely nothing and they have no right whatsoever to expect Russia to come to their aid: this won’t happen, at least not unless Russia achieves a measurable positive result from this intervention.

Still, let’s now look at the reasons why Russia might want to intervene.

First, this is, yet again, a case of Erdogan’s megalomania and malevolence resulting in a very dangerous situation for Russia. After all, all the Azeris need to do to secure an overt Turkish intervention is to either attack Armenia proper, which might force a Russian intervention or, alternatively, be so severely beaten by the Armenians that Turkey might have to intervene to avoid a historical loss of face for both Aliev and Erdogan.

Second, it is crucial for Russia to prove that the CSTO matters and is effective in protecting CSTO member states. In other words, if Russia lets Turkey attack Armenia directly the CSTO would lose all credibility, something which Russia cannot allow.

Third, it is crucial for Russia to prove to both Azerbaijan and Armenia that the US is long on hot air and empty promises, but can’t get anything done in the Caucasus. In other words, the solution to this war has to be a Russian one, not a US/NATO/EU one. Once it becomes clear in the Caucasus that, like in the Middle-East, Russia has now become the next “kingmaker” then the entire region will finally return to peace and a slow return to prosperity.

So far the Russians have been extremely careful in their statements. They mostly said that Russian peacekeepers could only be deployed after all the parties to this conflict agree to their deployment. Right now, we are still very far away from this.

Here is what happened so far: the Azeris clearly hoped for a short and triumphant war, but in spite of very real advances in training, equipment, etc the Azeri Blitzkrieg has clearly failed in spite of the fact that the Azeri military is more powerful than the NK+Armenian one. True, the Azeris did have some initial successes, but they all happened in small towns mostly located in the plain. But take a look at this topographic map of the area of operations and see for yourself what the biggest problem for the Azeris is:

Almost all of NK is located in the mountains (hence the prefix “nagorno” which means “mountainous”) and offensive military operations in the mountains are truly a nightmare, even for very well prepared and equipped forces (especially in the winter season, which is fast approaching). There are very few countries out there who could successfully conduct offensive operations in mountains, Russia is one of them, and Azerbaijan clearly is not.

Right now both sides agree on one thing only: only total victory can stop this war. While politically that kind of language makes sense, everybody knows that this war will not end up in some kind of total victory for one side and total defeat of the other side. The simple fact is that the Azeris can’t overrun all of NK while the Armenians (in Armenia proper and in the NK) cannot counter-attack and defeat the Azeri military in the plains.

Right now, and for as long as the Azeris and the Armenians agree that they won’t stop at anything short of a total victory, Russia simply cannot intervene. While she has the military power to force both sides to a total standstill, she has no legal right to do so and please remember that, unlike the US, Russia does respect international law (if only because she has no plans to become the “next US” or some kind of world hegemon in charge of maintaining the peace worldwide). So there are only two possible options for a Russian military intervention:

  1. A direct (and confirmed by hard evidence) attack on the territory of Armenia
  2. Both the Azeris and the Armenians agree that Russia ought to intervene.

I strongly believe that Erdogan and Aliev will do whatever it takes to prevent option one from happening (while they will do everything in their power short of an overt attack on Armenia to prevail). Accidents, however, do happen, so the risk of a quick and dramatic escalation of the conflict will remain until both sides agree to stop.

Right now, neither side has a clear victory and, as sad as I am to write these words, both sides have enough reserves (not only military, but also political and economic) to keep at it for a while longer. However, neither side has what it would take to wage a long and bloody positional war of attrition, especially in the mountain ranges. Thus both sides probably already realize that this one will have to stop, sooner rather than later (according to some Russian experts, we are only talking weeks here).

Furthermore, there are a lot of very dangerous escalations taking place, including artillery and missile strikes on cities and infrastructure objects. If the Armenians are really pushed against a wall, they could both recognize NK and hit the Azeri energy and oil/gas infrastructure with their formidable Iskander tactical ballistic missiles. Should that happen, then we can be almost certain that both the Azeris and the Turks will try to attack Armenia, with dramatic and most dangerous consequences.

ORDER IT NOW

This conflict can get much, much more bloody and much more dangerous. It is thus in the interests of the entire region (but not the US) to stop it. Will the Armenian lobby be powerful enough to pressure the US into a more helpful stance? So far, the US is, at least officially, calling all sides for a ceasefire (along with France and Russia), but we all know how much Uncle Shmuel’s word can be trusted. At least there is no public evidence that the US is pushing for war behind the scenes (the absence of such evidence does, of course, not imply the evidence of the absence of such actions!).

At the time of writing this (Oct. 9th) Russia has to wait for the parties to come back to reality and accept a negotiated solution. If and when that happens, there are options out there, including making NK a special region of Azerbaijan which would be placed under the direct protection of Russia and/or the CSTO with Russian forces deployed inside the NK region. It would even be possible to have a Turkish military presence all around the NK (and even some monitors inside!) to reassure the Azeris that Armenian forces have left the region and are staying out. The Azeris already know that they cannot defeat Armenia proper without risking a Russian response and they are probably going to realize that they cannot overrun NK. As for the Armenians, it is all nice and fun to play the “multi-vector” card, but Russia won’t play by these rules anymore. Her message here is simple: if you are Uncle Shmuels’s bitch, then let Uncle Shmuel save you; if you want us to help, then give us a really good reason why: we are listening”.

This seems to me an eminently reasonable position to take and I hope and believe that Russia will stick to it.

PS: the latest news is that Putin invited the Foreign Ministers of Azerbaijan and Armenia to Moscow for “consultations” (not “negotiations”, at least not yet) with Sergei Lavrov as a mediator. Good. Maybe this can save lives since a bad peace will always be better than a good war.

PPS: the latest news (Oct 9th 0110 UTC) is that the Russians have forced Armenia and Azerbaijan to negotiate for over thirteen hours, but at the end of the day, both sides agreed to an immediate ceasefire and for substantive negotiations to begin. Frankly, considering the extreme hostility of the parties towards each other, I consider this outcome almost miraculous. Lavrov truly earned his keep today! Still, we now have to see if Russia can convince both sides to actually abide by this agreement. Here is a machine translation of the first Russian report about this outcome:

Statement by the Ministers of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation, the Republic of Azerbaijan and the Republic of Armenia

In response to the appeal of the President of the Russian Federation V.V. Putin and in accordance with the agreements of the President of the Russian Federation V.V. Putin, President of the Republic of Azerbaijan I.G. Aliyev and Prime Minister of the Republic of Armenia N.V. Pashinyan, the parties agreed on the following steps :

1. A ceasefire is declared from 12:00 pm on October 10, 2020 for humanitarian purposes for the exchange of prisoners of war and other detained persons and bodies of the dead, mediated and in accordance with the criteria of the International Committee of the Red Cross.

2. The specific parameters of the ceasefire regime will be agreed upon additionally.

3. The Republic of Azerbaijan and the Republic of Armenia, with the mediation of the OSCE Minsk Group co-chairs, on the basis of the basic principles of the settlement, begin substantive negotiations with the aim of reaching a peaceful settlement as soon as possible.

4. The parties confirm the invariability of the format of the negotiation process.

 
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  1. Rahan says:

    Good article!
    Concerning who fed whom during the USSR years:

    The data shows that Russia and Belarus were the donors to the overall budget, while everyone else fed off that budget. Most of all Georgia, Armenia, and Estonia, but in one way or another, everyone. Except the Ukraine, which was almost self-sufficient.

    That being said, the Soviet system, in terms of quality of life and freedoms (ignoring for now the need to be a fortified state whom world capital constantly tries to destroy) was all over the place.

    Many people, for example, can in hindsight forgive the shortages, the bribes, the closed borders, the ecological situation, the lines, the censorship, the universal snitching, the waiting for a car or a TV for years, but cannot forgive the dentistry. Others can forgive the dentistry, but not some of the other elements.

    In this sense, I’d imagine many middle-aged Latvians or Moldovians can admit that yes, their countries benefited overall from the Soviet budget, and now have lost half their population to emigration, but boy is it worth it to be able to have access to decent dentistry and full shop shelves.

    China and Vietnam managed to swing this transition to full shelves and normal dentistry without collapsing. The USSR did not.

  2. Sunshine says:

    Yes, it is good news that they have agreed to a cease fire. Hopefully they can somehow work it out. It’s a crime that there was almost zero coverage of this in the US media. But what would one expect from the lügenpresse?

  3. Anonymous[393] • Disclaimer says:

    I don’t know much about this conflict, but from what I’ve seen, the Armenians are getting absolutely decimated by Azerbaijan drone strikes.
    It looks like a complete slaughter, the Armenians are just sitting ducks basically.

  4. Blade says:

    Russia and France are too countries that are most responsible for the problems of Armenians. Had it not been for them, neither Armenians would be expelled nor would they fight against Turks and Kurds. Therefore, they cannot be trusted anything regarding Armenians. They just want to use Armenians as they did in 19th and early 20th century, therefore they will do everything in their ability to prevent a solution in NK. That aside, the next two decades, Russian influence will continue fading while Turkish influence will keep increasing in Caucasus. Had it not been for an adversarial USA, it could be even faster, and it would be good for US interests as well. However, the US administration have too many airheads who can only see the surface. Russians just talk big, and often after the fact. They are in a way masters of pretending an outcome is because of their interference even when it has nothing to do with them. Operation in NK should continue, Armenia should cede the territory and ask for Turkey to open its borders for trade and travel. That is the best way forward for their people. Otherwise they are doomed to be pawns of Turkey’s adversaries for the foreseeable future.

    • Troll: Yevardian
  5. Wasn’t it Stalin who created NK as this odd ‘island’ of the Armenian SSR and the parallel Azeri ‘island’ of Nakhchivan? Was this done because mainly Armenians live in NK (and Azeris in Nakhchivan) or was there some other reason for this? I can’t remember who coined the formula but it readily comes to mind: Diversity + Proximity = War.

  6. @Rahan

    Dentistry is a perfect example for what was wrong.

    • Agree: Rahan
  7. Anonymous[656] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rahan

    “Except the Ukraine, which was almost self-sufficient.”

    During the Stalin-induced Ukraine Famine?

    You’re disqualified.

    • Replies: @Rahan
    , @Richard S
    , @Alden
  8. This is why Russia should have prevented the war from starting in the first place:

    1. The Ottomans are still a part of NATO. They are still the second largest and by far the best, no comparison at all, in fact the only competent military force in NATO. They are also the most strategically located single country in NATO, sitting as they do across the chokepoint of the Black Sea and overlooking all of West Asia. No matter what the babble, Amerikastan is not under any circumstances going to evict the Ottomans from NATO, even if it could.

    2. As a consequence of this, an Ottomanised Azerbaijan is a NATO Azerbaijan in all but name.

    3. The idea of “punishing” Armenia by allowing the Ottoman-Azerbaijan-Headchopper Alliance (OAHA for short) to attack Artsakh is absolutely wrong.

    (a) It might only play into Pashinyan’s hands, assuming the idea (increasingly being voiced on multiple fora) that he wants to lose the war in order to sacrifice Artsakh and – free of the territorial dispute that might block the accession – join NATO is true. Russia would be faced with a NATO Armenia and a NATOised Azerbaijan together. A good idea? I think not.

    (b) Officially, Artsakh isn’t part of Armenia. Therefore it is not responsible for the crimes of the Pashinyan regime. Therefore allowing it to be overrun is ipso facto not an acceptable response to teach *Pashinyan* a lesson.

    (c) If Artsakh is overrun, what happens to the other republics that seceded from post Soviet states? What about Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Transnistria? What about the two Donbass republics, which let me remind you, Russia doesn’t recognise *either*? Does anyone really think the Ukranazis won’t take the hint that Russia won’t intervene unless they attack Russia itself?

    4. If part or all of Nagorno Karabakh is captured by OAHA, what exactly is stopping Sultan Erdogan from repopulating the place with jihadi headchoppers just as he did in Jisr al Shughour with his Uighur imports? A jihadi headchopper ministate in Russia’s underbelly isn’t exactly a great idea.

    This is why on a prolonged war of attrition OAHA is guaranteed to win:

    1. The Azeri blitzkrieg could never have won and was not designed to win. A look at the map shows that OAHA is enveloping Nagorno Karabakh in a pincer movement from North and South, trying to cut off the territory from Armenia.

    2. The Armenian armed forces are strictly limited in their ability to commit personnel to Nagorno Karabakh. They have to keep the bulk of their troops to defend Armenia itself against any possible Azeri-Ottoman attack from the west or north east. It’s the perennial problem of a two front war. In comparison OAHA has no such constraints; it knows that Armenia can’t attack Azerbaijan itself.

    3. In order to limit politically disastrous losses the Aliyev regime is using the jihadi headchoppers as shock troops, holding back Azeri forces for the final push, while the Ottomans establish air supremacy over the battlefield.

    4. As a consequence of these the Armenian forces will be pinned down and subjected to attrition that they cannot survive.

    5. Meanwhile OAHA is deliberately attacking civilians in Stepanakert and elsewhere in order to provoke a refugee exodus into Armenia. This has already been substantially successful with some 50% of the population fleeing.

    This is how Russia could have prevented the war in the first place:

    1. It is inconceivable that Russian intelligence cannot have been aware that the war was being planned. Therefore the decision to let it happen must have been made.

    2. A couple of phone calls and one public statement would have been all that was necessary to stop it from happening.

    (i) A phone call to Erdogan saying that Putin knew what he was up to and that it would have dire economic consequences for Russian-Turkish relations, such as another ban on tourism.

    (ii) A phone call to Pashinyan saying that Russia isn’t overwhelmed with joy at his actions since 2018 and that if this continues Russia will stand aside and let any future OAHA offensive overrun not just Artsakh but Armenia itself.

    (iii) A public statement that Russia will not tolerate the changing of the facts on the ground by military action – by anybody.

    I do not see that the Ottomans would dare to begin their aggression under those conditions. And under the *current* conditions I do not see them ending their aggression short of the fall of Artsakh entirely or most substantially.

    However, Putin worshippers like the Saker will obsessively support anything at all Putin does, even if the result is a total failure.

    • Agree: John Regan, Vojkan, Alfred
    • Replies: @RT
    , @TheIdiot
    , @Beckow
  9. @Sunshine

    The ceasefire is just to exchange prisoners and bury bodies.

    • Agree: Richard S
  10. @Anonymous

    The drone strikes are devastating, but the problem is that the Azeri ground troops are sub par and don’t take full advantage of the air superiority. Armenians made a ton of ambushes and the dead Azeris are piling up fast.
    Also Azerbaijan is claiming to have destroyed more artillery equipment than Armenia even possess, so obvious exaggeration taking place.
    Soon their drones will be depleted and with those goes the dominance in air and with that goes their advantage.

  11. Great article,
    I think that variation of the agreement that the Saker envisions will be implemented long term. The autonomous region within Azerbaijan with Russian and Turkish presence.

  12. padre says:
    @Anonymous

    Who’s being decimated depends largely on who is reporting it!

    • Agree: Tom Welsh
  13. Miro23 says:

    The truth is that like every superpower, Russia is too big and too powerful to have real “friends” (Serbia being a quite beautiful exception to this rule).

    A realistic assessment of national interests would probably indicate that the Visegrad Group (Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic, Slovakia) take a more balanced attitude to Russia (and fade the links to Empire). The current US is not the US of the 1950’s, and Russia under Putin isn’t the old Soviet Union.

    Culturally, Russia and Visegrad seem to heading in the same direction, while the Empire continues its descent into NWO, Regime Change, ZioGlob madness.

  14. And yet, under international law, Büsingen am Hochrhein, surrounded by Switzerland, is part of Germany. Is there some reason Azerbaijan can’t deal with it?

    • Replies: @Tim too
  15. MMK says:

    A really well-written article. I had no idea of where these countries were, what the politics was about, and who the players really are and this article covered everything.

    Not sure if “…continue to form one country with the NK de facto while remaining two countries de jure” should actually be the other way round; i.e. “continue to form one country with the NK de jure while remaining two countries de facto“…

  16. @Rahan

    Because the retarded slavs bought into (((marx))) hook, line and sinker.
    The Asians have always been ethnic nationalists first. They never taught the original copy of communist manifesto, lest their own people would slit the funtionaries’ throat.

    • Replies: @Rahan
    , @Derer
  17. Tom Welsh says:

    “Oh sure, political leaders on both sides like to portray themselves as religious, but this is just PR”.

    I can’t resist drawing attention to Private Eye’s gorgeous expression of this idea (in the case of British prime minister Jim Callaghan):

    https://www.private-eye.co.uk/covers/cover-453

  18. Tom Welsh says:
    @Anonymous

    It does look that way. But then – how reliable are our sources? (Other than the Saker and his friends, obviously).

    Ironic that your comment has appeared immediately below Sunshine’s, with his reference to the Lügenpresse. (Lying press).

  19. Tom Welsh says:

    “…if true, that would give Russia the right to strike these Takfiris on Azeri soil”.

    After, I should hope, certain obvious preliminaries. Perhaps the formidable duo of Mr Lavrov and Mr Shoigu could figure prominently in these. (“If you don’t talk to Lavrov…”)

    1. Formally warn the Azeri government that such terrorists are on its soil and planning, or even carrying out, terrorist acts of violence.

    2. Formally ask the Azeri government to deal with those terrorists.

    3. Failing effective Azeri government action, offer practical help to deal with the terrorists.

    4. Failing all else, and after the expiration of a decent interval, and with expressions of regret – deal with the terrorists.

  20. “My main reason to disagree here is that Russians now are acutely aware of the disgusting lack of gratitude of our (supposed) “brothers” and (supposed) “fellow Christians” have shown as soon as Russia was in need.

    Weird statement from a Greek perspective. Apart from support in 2004 regarding the Annan Plan Russia has done very little for us (ever). Whereas Greece and Cyprus are always supportive of Russia in the EU. However, what does Russia do? They sell S-400s to Turkey. Russia sure knows how to lose long-standing friends.

    “The truth is that like every superpower, Russia is too big and too powerful to have real “friends” (Serbia being a quite beautiful exception to this rule).”

    Hilarious. Russia is not a superpower. They are simply a regional power who is losing influence as we speak and gradually moving to a middle ranking power on par with France.

    • LOL: Alfred
    • Replies: @anon
    , @AnonFromTN
  21. GMC says:

    The first thing I saw , when it came to maps , is who the hell draws these boundary lines – lol The entire Mid East looks like a drunken land locked sailor drew up the national boundary lines. Anyways, I don’t see anyone trying to explain the 2nd largest US/CIA Embassy in the World , in a country with 2,9 million people – Armenia. Maybe because it’s strictly, a military / intel outlet and hiding place , that fronts for a so called diplomatic embassy when needed. Just like the largest US Embassy in Iraq. Can only imagine how many bribes it took for the one in Armenia. The US Embassy in Kiev, showed the world what US embassies really do – and it has nothing to do with diplomacy.

    • Replies: @Tom Welsh
    , @Philip Owen
  22. Mikael_ says:

    courtesy of the militant atheism of the former USSR, many, if not most, people in Armenia, Azerbaijan and even Russia nowadays are agnostic secularists

    Wut?

    Today, and maybe courtesy of the militant atheism of the former USSR, Christian values are thriving in Russia –
    and I would go even further and state Russia is the last hope for Christianity to survive in the world!

    • Replies: @anonymous
  23. Yevardian says:

    At the time of writing this (Oct. 9th) Russia has to wait for the parties to come back to reality and accept a negotiated solution. If and when that happens, there are options out there, including making NK a special region of Azerbaijan which would be placed under the direct protection of Russia and/or the CSTO with Russian forces deployed inside the NK region. It would even be possible to have a Turkish military presence all around the NK (and even some monitors inside!) to reassure the Azeris that Armenian forces have left the region and are staying out.

    LOL good luck with that, nothing short of total military catastrophe for Artsakh would have people accept such a fate, even if you look within the EU, I would not want to Hungarian in Romania. Aliyev has openly stated, recently, multiple times Armenia is ‘a fake country that shouldn’t exist’. Azerbaijan is the country that welcomed back from training in Hungary an Axe-Murderer (while his fellow cadet was sleeping, no less) as a national hero.

    (Armenia has not even recognized this republic so far!)

    Being a landlocked rump-state surrounded by people who previously tried to genocide you (and in the Arab manner, deny it happened, whilst simultaneously regretting ‘not enough’), it’s perfectly obvious Armenia is in position to endure international condemnation for violating the sacredness of post-Soviet borders.

    Our dear author first mentions this:

    For example, Russia did sell a lot of advanced weapon systems to Azerbaijan (see here for one good example). In fact, relations between Vladimir Putin and Ilham Aliyev are famously very warm. And while it is true that Azerbaijan left the CSTO in 1999, Russia and Azerbaijan have retained a very good relationship which some even characterize as a partnership or even an alliance.

    While in the very next paragraph wondering what possible motive Armenia could have for hedging its bets. Yes, I agree its a stupid idea to rely on the US for security, especially here, but it’s quite obvious (as our dear author has alluded to above) that Russia is far from a genuine friend either.

    Furthermore, Azerbaijan has been a much better partner to Russia than Armenia, especially since the Soros-financed “color revolution” of 2018 which put Nikol Pashinian in power

    Sargsyan was extremely corrupt, there would have been a backlash against him anyway. Of course the Russian government completely ignores such things in it’s partners because the Duma is full of thieves and crooks itself.

    • Agree: John Regan
    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
  24. Wazdo says:

    Thanks for clearing up the situation; until I read this I had no idea what the issues were.

  25. @Anonymous

    Yup drone strikes are a real game changer

    It’ll make a mockery of all that propaganda blather about S300/400/500 air defence systems!

    In fact those system are already being bypassed by Israeli F35 in their raids against Iranian proxies in Syria

    Ironically its Israel who are supplying these drones to Azerbaijani force’s

    The future of warfare is radically changing towards drones

    • Agree: Old and Grumpy
    • Replies: @FB
  26. Tom Welsh says:

    As far as I can see – talking from a position of profound ignorance illuminated only by the wise explanations of the Saker and others – there is the difficulty that NK is, legally, part of Azerbaijan.

    Thus anyone wishing ill to Armenia and Russia can legitimately argue that the Azeri government is merely trying to bring a dissident part of its own territory (and society) into compliance with its laws.

    Much as the Kiev junta argues about Donetsk and Lugansk (and, indeed, Crimea).

    For Armenia to bombard Azeri territory (or, strictly, even NK territory) would put Armenia squarely in the wrong as far as the UN, for instance, is concerned.

    Perhaps that is Washington’s hope. Put enough pressure on NK that the Armenians panic and strike Azerbaijan. Technically, that would be an act of unprovoked aggressive war. If the Azeris retaliated against Armenia, that would be a legitimate act of war in self-defence, and would compel Russia to support Armenia, thus implicating itself in the unprovoked aggressive war.

    At that point, Washington could – if it chose – bring NATO into play, and even have Armenia and Russia condemned by the UN.

    So I imagine that Russia’s top priority must be to make absolutely sure the Armenians do not attack Azerbaijan. It is indeed a highly combustible situation; and it’s little consolation that there are also highly combustible situations in such places as Wisconsin.

  27. Tom Welsh says:
    @GMC

    “The entire Mid East looks like a drunken land locked sailor drew up the national boundary lines”.

    And not necessarily by mistake, or out of ignorance. If you have had a thriving colonial empire and someone forces you to give it up, what better strategy than to leave behind a carefully designed state of violent chaos? That avoids the main consequence of decolonisation: the emergence of powerful and competent national governments.

    Also, consider that the entire Middle East (and North Africa) was part of the Ottoman Empire a mere 110 years ago. (As were the Balkans a further 50-60 years earlier).

    The resurgence of the Ottoman Empire should be looked upon no more favourably than that of the British, Austro-Hungarian, French or Spanish empires.

    • Replies: @Alfred
  28. Tom Welsh says:
    @Miro23

    “The current US is not the US of the 1950’s [sic]”.

    The US of the 1950s was not the US of the 1950s.

  29. Invictus says: • Website

    It seems that Israel is playing an important role in this war.

    The NK defence is based on positions on dominating high ground. These positions are being eliminated by very advanced loitering munitions (“kamikaze drones”), supplied by Israel.

  30. Robjil says:

    In the 19th century people believed in the people’s right to vote. Nice voted to join France instead of Italy. Why can’t voting rights of people be “allowed” in the 21st century? Why is Bolshevik borders so sacred these day? It wasn’t so “sacred” for Kosovo. Why is it so “sacred” everywhere else in the world?

    http://www.emersonkent.com/historic_documents/treaty_of_turin_1860.htm

    The Treaty of Turin was concluded between France, led by Napoleon III, and Sardinia-Piedmont, led by Victor Emmanuel II.

    Savoy and the County of Nice was given to France in exchange for French military support against Austria and general French good-will regarding the formation of a unified Italy under leadership of the Duke of Savoy.

    The plebiscite of Savoy on April 22 and 23, 1860, and the plebiscite of Nice on April 15 and 16, 1860, sealed the deal, rigged or not.

    Savoy voted 99.3% and Nice voted 99.8% in favor of annexation to France.

  31. Rahan says:
    @Anonymous

    “Except the Ukraine, which was almost self-sufficient.”
    During the Stalin-induced Ukraine Famine?
    You’re disqualified.

    Imagine a discussion of the USA of 1990, and someone appearing from nowhere and yelling “No, you’re all wrong, because there were no personal computers during the 1920s crash!1111! Disqualified!11”

    Or people talking about China in 2015 and that same someone jumping in to reee that all the data cited is wrong, because the great leap forward of the 1950s lead to famines.

    Congratulations.
    https://me.me/i/when-you-finally-win-the-special-olympics-7093956

    • Agree: Richard S
  32. Vojkan says:
    @Blade

    So it’s Russia’s and France’s fault that you killed 1.5 million Armenians. Chutzpah Turkish style.

    • Agree: Robjil
    • Replies: @Blade
    , @KA
  33. @Miro23

    The Hungarians, Czechs and Slovaks may want to take a more balanced attitude to Russia, but do the Poles. They have been pushing for American bases and missiles inside Poland, as well as strongly supporting Lithuania over Belarus.
    Since the end of the Cold war,whoever is in power in Poland has been anti-Russian and there seems to be no change in the foreseeable future. They don’t seem to realise that lessening tensions with Russia might be in Poland’s ( and others’ ) interests. They even sacrificed Polish agricultural exports to Russia after Maidan. With import substitution, exports will be very low even after ( if?) future normalisation.
    Until there is a complete change in Polish political attitudes, I see no improvement.

    • Replies: @Miro23
    , @Derer
  34. Moi says:

    The Ottoman empires compares favorably with the kings and “noblemen” of Christendom at the time.

    • Replies: @Zimriel
  35. Richard S says:
    @Anonymous

    During the Stalin-induced Ukraine Famine?

    No, in 1990. It says on the chart.

    • Thanks: Rahan
  36. Rahan says:
    @HeebHunter

    Because the retarded slavs bought into (((marx))) hook, line and sinker.
    The Asians have always been ethnic nationalists first. They never taught the original copy of communist manifesto, lest their own people would slit the funtionaries’ throat.

    According to mister Sergei Kara-Murza (excellent author, BTW), Lenin was the first to realize that on the territory of the mostly pre-industrial, agrarian Russian Empire, the goal shouldn’t be to usher in a bourgeois capitalist society, so that per Marxist logic it can then evolve to socialism and the to communism, but that instead the actual situation needs to be adapted to.

    Hence the conflict between the Bolsheviks and the other lefties, who actually wanted the Marxist thing, while the Leninist thing was to instead use the already existing commune-council tradition of the Russian villages, and build “communism” on top of that. Hence the “Soviet Union”, soviet meaning “council”, a “Union of Councils”, based upon the old timey Russian agrarian tradition of village councils, later transplanted to worker’s councils and such.

    After Lenin came the struggle of Trotsky vs Stalin.
    Trotsky and his allies viewed Soviet Russia as Goyim material to burn through in order to achieve “what is really important” i.e. “proper revolution where it matters” (Germany, France, Italy, Britain). They also pushed for the dismantling of the family, of the church, of all preexisting social structures, and for “free love” and pederasty.
    Stalin gradually evolved into a “reactionary statesman” who wanted to instead consolidate Soviet Russia into a “Russian Empire with People’s Power”, and to get back all the territories of the Russian Empire that managed to escape after the 1917 collapse (Finland, Poland, the Baltics).
    On the one hand Stalin had to find ways to purge the Trotskyists, and on the other–to turn the malnourished and war-torn USSR into an industrial power at any cost.
    “Comrades, the path that the capitalist countries walked over a 100 years we will have to sprint across in 10 years, otherwise we’ll be crushed.”
    He almost didn’t make it. Preparations were half-done when a United Europe led by Hitler invaded.

    Later, post-Stalin, Soviet Russia started turning increasingly into an urban society, and a peacetime urban society at that. A shift from an agrarian, starving, mobilization communism barracks, to urban, fairly well fed and clothed peacetime society, where the new generation didn’t know famines or massacres or genocide, and wanted to be able to enjoy themselves.

    Aristotle says societies can either be based on minimizing suffering , or on maximizing pleasure. The Soviet way was originally a society of minimizing suffering, built by peasants (focused on basic survival until WWII, and then minimized suffering behind a shield of nukes in the 1950s). By the 1960s and 1970s, it was populated by a new generation of urban dwellers, who wanted to maximize pleasure instead.

    That’s when all sorts of busybodies started running around Marx in hand, yelling how “our communism is the wrong kid, it isn’t marxist at all!” Yes, it wasn’t Marxism, it was peasant Leninism that had evolved into some weird urban drab pseudo-socialism.

    Anyway, so yeah, neither China, nor Vietnam, nor Russia were “really Marxist”. Although, now that we’re on the subject, one could argue that modern China is in fact following the original Marxist idea of a) first evolve from a pre-modern peasant society into a bourgeois capitalist society, and then b) morph into “proper socialism”.

    They’ve certainly done the evolution into a bourgeois capitalist society part. Let’s see what’s next.

    • Replies: @Zimriel
  37. Interestingly no mention of Israeli assistance to Azerbaijan in the form of drones. Not sure what the means other than there is one more player involved here. Also unlike Syria, Russia doesn’t have a navy base in Armenia. My guess Putin will have Russia remain neutral. Hopefully if the big boys stay out of the war, it will end sooner.

  38. @Gorgeous George

    That’s why the Ottomans are positioning F16s in Azerbaijan and have now begun talking about officially entering the war.

  39. Vojkan says:

    Short answer: Russia can’t afford to stay on the side. Nature abhors a vacuum. Less Russia in the region => more Turkey in the region. Now, if the Russians believe Turks unleashed is a good idea, who am I to argue?

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
  40. Zimriel says:
    @Moi

    Just like there was a difference between Rome AD 15 and 415, there was a difference between the Ottoman Empire AD 1490 and 1890. Some here would say similar of the US 1820 and 2020.
    What starts out as a beautiful dream can end in a nightmare.

  41. anon[454] • Disclaimer says:
    @Agathoklis

    Seems you make the same mistake as our leaders in Washington when it comes to a regional power vs a world power,any country that can destroy you in the matter of a few hours is a WORLD POWER and don’t ever forget it,we always thought we were something that we are not Korea Nam,Iraq showed that in spades and the idea that we are the great arbitrator of the world belongs with those failed wars because the only thing we ever looked at is what’s in it for us.!!!!

  42. @Yevardian

    Sargsyan was extremely corrupt, there would have been a backlash against him anyway. Of course the Russian government completely ignores such things in it’s partners because the Duma is full of thieves and crooks itself.

    Sargsyan was someone that Putin could do business with, and that alone made him a major asset for Armenia. He was replaced by some screeching “opposition journalist” – talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

    • Replies: @LG
  43. Zimriel says:
    @Rahan

    Aristotle says societies can either be based on minimizing suffering , or on maximizing pleasure.

    If we are talking Politics, Aristotle’s theory goes more to human nature as slaves or as citizens. Slaves respond to suffering or pleasure, which their masters provide to them. Citizens look to the future.

    • Replies: @Rahan
  44. Artsakh to Azerbaijan and Nakhchivan to Armenia… problem solved!

    • Replies: @Z-man
  45. @Vojkan

    As a Russian, I think we should give Armenia to the Turks. It will be cheaper for us, than subsidizing this useless country in perpetuity. We should also give them Georgia while we’re at it: would love to see Turks converting Georgians to Islam.

    • Replies: @Vojkan
  46. RT says:
    @Fiendly Neighbourhood Terrorist

    More profound and realistic analysis than the one in the article. Thanks.

  47. Cyrano says:

    I see a CIA hand in this one. They must have encouraged that nutcase Erdogan to help his Islamic brothers. For what purpose?

    Turkey has been drifting away from NATO lately, with purchase of Russian weapons – thus threatening the sole purpose of NATO existence.

    Remember, NATO is not a military alliance anymore. It’s a protection racket for the US. How many members has NATO already – 98? If you demand that each one of them spend 2% of their GDP on mostly crappy US weapons, you can ensure that the US economy is chugging away solely on arms sales, even if the rest of the economy is in the doldrums.

    US today is somewhat similar to USSR – in the pre-collapse days – the only branch of the economy that’s performing well is the arms manufacturing – which they are not allowed to outsource to China for strategic reasons.

    Turkey buying Russian weapons threatens the core purpose of NATO existence – making money for US. Throwing a wrench into Russia-Turkey rapprochement brings Turkey back into the line-up of NATO goods consumers and ensures continuity of the protection racket indefinitely.

    • Replies: @sally
  48. Vojkan says:
    @Felix Keverich

    The problem is not whether or not Armenians deserve to be defended. The problem is that if you let the Turks have their way in Armenia, they’ll see it as Russian weakness, they’ll push further and you’ll end up with a much bigger problem. Turks just cannot be trusted, ever. They have no word, they have no honour. The only rule they abide by is the rule of brute force.

    • Agree: Robjil
    • Replies: @Zimriel
    , @Blade
    , @Derer
  49. Miro23 says:
    @Verymuchalive

    Until there is a complete change in Polish political attitudes, I see no improvement.

    I agree, but at some point they need to get rid of this historical baggage and take a closer look at their wonderful US ally. If there’s one country that’ll get throw under the bus it’s Poland.

    • Replies: @Verymuchalive
  50. Zimriel says:
    @Vojkan

    “They have no honour!” is what combatants in war always accuse about the other side. Especially when the accuser is losing.

    • Replies: @Vojkan
  51. Rahan says:
    @Zimriel

    Slaves respond to suffering or pleasure, which their masters provide to them. Citizens look to the future.

    I remember Hegel developing this through the filter of “who is ready to risk their life to win?”. Those who take the risk are obvious masters, those who refuse to take the risk obviously get told what to do and how to live.

    In a sense, in a capitalist society, the “master” would be the person capable of risking everything to establish a new business, while the “slave” would be the person who shies away from this risk and instead prefers to simply work for a wage somewhere.

    Without a robust market economy, though, the “master material” all go either into institutional power-plays, or into crime, with the “world of law-abiding citizens” outside of institutions and crimes being only slaves.

    Perhaps in a sense something similar is happening to the West in the last 30-40 years. The “masters”, the “Atlases”, are all siphoned off into financial capitalism or corporate and institutional power games. No one left to be the invisible pillar who keeps society functioning along, let alone progress. With the exception of the occasional freak like Musk. But he’s from South Africa, anyway.

    The “bred and born” westerners, the last players of heroic stature are in the range of Trump (70+) and Scott Adams (60+). Same for real writers and musicians. Something happened afterward, some sort of glitch in the civilizational transmission from generation to generation.

    Making a badass sci-fi serial or film is still up to the likes of Ridley Scott who is in his 1980s. Not counting Nolan, who maybe fizzled out.

    Even South Park and Family Guy are all 1990s things that simply survived to this day. Rick and Morty is postmodern cannibalizing of 1980s sci-fi.

    The creator master types got diverted into venues where they fizzled out without making an impact, and their place in the visible parts of the Agora taken up by mediocrities. Not good.

    Some might say the COVID thing is being used to weed out the last remaining “masters” from the middle class…

  52. Tim too says:
    @The Alarmist

    And Kaliningrad oblast is Russian, is separate from Russia. (Historically German, but lost by war.)

  53. Vojkan says:
    @Zimriel

    With regards to Turks, it isn’t propaganda, it is the truth.

  54. Anon[210] • Disclaimer says:

    Alt Right group’s Spencer and Georgianni should get some of the Trump -Cotton supporters to fight for NK .

    Georgianni on same platform featured by Spencer wanted to fight against Muslim and China ,nuke Pakistan and bring India into the coalition .

    Poor knuckleheads have no place to hide now.

    Poor malformed who failed in all endeavors thought this platform would bring them some joy , meaning and hope .

  55. Agent76 says:

    Oct 9, 2020 Two Weeks Of Armenian-Azerbaijani War: No Peace For Karabakh

    The Armenian-Azerbaijani war is nearing the end of its second week with no prospects of de-escalation through diplomatic channels in the near future.

    Sep 11, 2011 General Wesley Clark: Wars Were Planned – Seven Countries In Five Years

    “This is a memo that describes how we’re going to take out seven countries in five years, starting with Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and, finishing off, Iran.” I said, “Is it classified?” He said, “Yes, sir.” I said, “Well, don’t show it to me.” And I saw him a year or so ago, and I said, “You remember that?” He said, “Sir, I didn’t show you that memo! I didn’t show it to you!”

  56. Z-man says:
    @Gorgeous George

    Yeah the Armenians are better fighters, have more to fight for.
    The Azeris should consolidate the small gains they have made on the ground, declare victory, face saving for losing all these lands almost three decades ago, and negotiate a peace deal with Armenia.
    God’s Fool says “Artsakh to Azerbaijan and Nakhchivan to Armenia… problem solved!” Ah if it were that easy. The Armenians aren’t going to give up most of NK and the Azeri’s aren’t going to give up the enclave next to Iran. But with Russia, Turkey, France and maybe Iran guiding these two countries a deal can be had.

    • Replies: @Alfred
  57. Z-man says:
    @God's Fool

    Logical in the 20th Century but in the 21st Century unlikely. Armenia is too invested in NK and Azerbaijan is invested in their enclave. Azerbaijan has to concede land to Armenia. With the small areas they just won they have some face saving from their losses of thirty years ago and can now negotiate this and a few more areas and call it a victory and settle this. It could happen but this is the Caucasus so it probably wont.

    • Replies: @God's Fool
  58. Derer says:
    @HeebHunter

    Calling “retarded Slavs” in reference to (((marx))) is highly illiterate especially when defending 7/24 the criminal inventor of that yoke.

    David R. Francis US ambassador to Russia sent a dispatch to Washington in Jan. 1918:

    “The Bolshevik leaders here, most of whom are Jews and 90% of whom are returned exiles, care little for Russia or any other country but are internationalists and they are trying to start a worldwide social revolution.”

    • Replies: @HeebHunter
  59. Blade says:
    @Vojkan

    It is getting tiring to show evidence that numbers don’t even add up, there wasn’t even that many Armenians, and only about half the Armenians were subject to relocation. Neither is there a smoking gun evidence for killing Armenians let alone a plan for mass extermination, all the evidence for supposed genocide is people’s deductions and stories, but not documents or data. Meanwhile there are countless documents, some of which in my possession, regarding orders for Turkish officers to protect the safety of moving Armenians. Unable to find a genocide to justify their countless genocides, Europeans hold onto this Armenian Genocide story. For French and Russians, it is internal politics, but also the fact that they are the two perpetrators of Armenian revolts. Yes, it is these two countries fault that Armenians revolted and had a civil war against Turks and Kurds. French researched on Armenians as early as 1800s, what they found was that it would be difficult to provoke Armenians to revolt as they are happy and Turks consider them trustworthy. Before their involvement Armenians lived along with Turks and Kurds for almost a thousand years with no problems.

    If you however are so persistent on genocide discussions, I suggest you to spend more time with actual genocides that are supported with countless evidence. For example the ones in Belgian Congo, Algeria, Kazakhstan, Ukraine, South America, Rwanda, Bosnia and more. For which, I am pretty sure neither Europeans nor Russians haven’t even offered an apology, let alone compensation.

  60. @Agathoklis

    Whereas Greece and Cyprus are always supportive of Russia in the EU.

    Are you writing this with straight face? EU sanctions require consensus. Did Greece or Cyprus ever raise their voices against anti-Russian sanctions the EU imposed?

    • Replies: @Blade
    , @Agathoklis
  61. chris says:

    In spite of the slights and asides, the Saker seems to have left out a very important player in the story! (I wonder what this could mean 🙂 )
    Interview:
    https://libertarianinstitute.org/scotthortonshow/10-2-20-danny-sjursen-on-the-latest-nagorno-karabakh-conflict/

    12:35 min
    Sjursen: “Azerbaijan 3rd largest buyer of Israeli arms,… Israeli factor trying to hem in the Iranians and using Azerbaijan as a ‘Mossad base’”

    35:41 Scott Horton says: “… and the Likud has had a long-term relationship with Azerbaijan, it started, …. in 2007, … Dave Bogrov (sp?) reported and I interviewed him about it, that the Israelis had built an air base there and had fighter planes ready to try to start a war with Iran, in the failed attempt to start a war with Iran in 2007, …” Skursen then says: “Israeli media is reporting on the NK conflict s lot more than our media”

    Article:
    https://original.antiwar.com/danny_sjursen/2020/10/01/no-dog-in-the-fight-nagorno-karabakhs-conflict-isnt-about-us-or-russia/

  62. Blade says:
    @Vojkan

    It is absolutely ridiculous this is coming from a Russian. Anyone who studied a bit history knows that its Russians who will never hold onto agreements they signed. Turks have always followed with their agreements, to the point of stupidity actually. In my opinion Turks should be more flexible and should not shy away from breaching agreements when possible, because first no one actually cares about who is honorable, and second even when they do the right thing they get blamed anyway.

    Regarding Armenia, if Armenians were to leave NK and make peace with Azerbaijan, and ask for opening of their borders and end isolation as a part of peace, it would be the best way forward for them. Alternative is remaining an isolated, poor and Russian dependent country forever. However, especially diaspora Armenians are so full of hate, that they don’t even care if actual Armenians who live in Armenia has to lick Russian balls as long as no peace with Turks is achieved. I don’t know if Turkey would consider solution a Russian weakness, I wouldn’t. I want it to be solved so that Turkey doesn’t have a paranoid and isolated country next to it. Unfortunately, Turkey’s adversaries want it to remain unsolved for the exact opposite of my reasoning.

    • Troll: YetAnotherAnon
  63. Derer says:
    @Vojkan

    It is time the European weaklings should stand up (unfortunately my abstract thinking only) and kick the Ottoman from Byzantium in Europe and NATO. Turkey’s escapades/conflicts have always religious overtone, stemming from cohabitation intolerance with other faith. Germany watch out and closely monitor Caliph Erdogan appetite for Bavaria for 6 m Turks in Germany.

    • Replies: @Blade
  64. Blade says:
    @AnonFromTN

    They either live in a fantasy world, or extremely ignorant or just flat out lie with no shame. My opinion is all three. In their paranoid world, Turkey wants to invade Greece and Greeks are protecting Europe from invaders, therefore whatever they do is legitimate because they are living through crisis as the heroes. At the same time they give their ports to China and give bases to America, then turn and claim they always support Russia and are best allies with the US with a healthy dose of shitting on Germans for saving their country.

    • Replies: @Simpleguest
  65. Derer says:
    @Verymuchalive

    Unfortunately, real power in Poland is in the hand of the “octopus” arm stretching from the American proxy. Naive Gorbachev is responsible for this colossal betrayal.

    Baker told Gorbachev: “Look, if you remove your [300,000] troops [from east Germany] and allow unification of Germany in NATO, NATO will not expand one inch to the east.”

  66. @Blade

    You must be a filthy Janichiar.
    France and Russia are not responsible for anything.
    Turks and Armenians did live Turkey in cooperative peace. Only when Turks were pushed out from Ukraine and Europe, and were coming back to Turkey, they needed dwellings. So Turks decided to give them Armenian dwellings. So Turks exported them to Russia. 350 thousand Armenians did die in the process.
    Now you want Armenians to kiss Turkish arse? Don’t you think that is little bit cheeky?

    • Replies: @Blade
  67. Blade says:
    @Derer

    Goodness, you idiots are tiring. You should first save your women’s wombs from African bombers and worry about Byzantium that never existed much later.

    • Replies: @Derer
  68. TheIdiot says:
    @Rahan

    The statistic is useless
    Do you give up Guam, Alaska or Hawaii just because they are net consumers
    And thereby you loose the Indian, Pacific and the Caribbean waters?
    and thereby you loose the Empire, which is the reason you have net contributors?

    What is the USSR without the Baltics, Kazakhstan, Ukraine, Moldavia and Georgia?
    Correct – a gas station

    What is a gas station without the communist ideology?
    Correct – Nigeria

    Watch what happens to a nuclear armed Nigeria(RF) surrounded by 5G satellites
    Not long to go, endgame within the next 25 years, max

    • Troll: GazaPlanet
    • Replies: @Chris Mallory
    , @annamaria
  69. Blade says:
    @Agathoklis

    Probably until they get assistance they wanted against Turks or until some money they begged for was granted. As soon as that happened, they must have immediately changed their vote, hence the sanctions lol. Small nation nationalists are really funny in the sense that they think they are playing everyone else like fiddler while greater nations just tolerate them for some other grand strategy.

  70. TheIdiot says:
    @Blade

    Turkish and Jewish nations are the two most responsible for the plight of the Armenians.
    Armenians are the sworn enemies of the Jewish nation since they are Amalekites.

    Turkish nation has been used by donme turks (jews pretending to have converted to islam)
    to exterminate at least 5 million of Armenians in the worst genocide of the 20th century.

  71. @Blade

    They either live in a fantasy world, or extremely ignorant or just flat out lie with no shame.

    It’s mostly the last one.
    Ever heard of “kicking and screaming like a Greek in hapis (prison)”?
    It probably dates back to Ottoman times and it’s pretty popular in your part of the world.

  72. TheIdiot says:
    @Fiendly Neighbourhood Terrorist

    You are right on all of the most relevant points

    This IS a NATO war (not a Turkey war)

    Russia could have prevented it, but the same crooks/forces that are responsible for the
    first war and for the collapse of the USSR are still in control of Kremlin 30 years on

    Armenia is being sold off as we watch it

    The salesman in charge is Paschinyan, (the puppet of the West or the Saakaschvili of Armenia)
    The salesmen pretending to do the diplomacy are Putin and Macron

  73. Blade says:
    @Zarathustra

    I don’t want Armenians to kiss anyone’s ass. I want them to end their isolation and live peacefully, but as long as NK is occupied it is not possible. Rest of your post is almost completely false, but at least your dead count is closer to reality than so called experts’. Turks from Europe or Crimea are almost all settled in West Anatolia, not where Armenians live.

    • Replies: @AB_Anonymous
  74. @Miro23

    Visegard has as much influence on the world politics in general
    and the EU foreign policy in particular
    as the Maine and Nebraska in the US electoral college,
    i.e. NONE

    • Replies: @Miro23
  75. Most Armenians are not Orthodox Christians, but members of the Armenian Apostolic Church, which are miaphysites/monophysites.

    You’d expect 1 god, 1 religion, but leave it up to people and you get where we are today [the pope and his pope-mobile].

  76. Alfred says:
    @Tom Welsh

    the entire Middle East (and North Africa) was part of the Ottoman Empire a mere 110 years ago

    Nonsense. The British controlled Egypt, Iraq and Iran. The French controlled the Maghreb – Algeria, Tunisia and Morocco – as well as Lebanon and Syria.

    I guess you also think that the Turks built and owned the Suez Canal?

    My father, as a school kid in Cairo in the 1930’s, wore a tarboosh. My grandfather wore a tarboosh in the 1950’s. My great uncle wore a tarboosh in the 1960’s. But that did not mean that they were under the Turks. It was a fashion statement.

    • Replies: @Tom Welsh
  77. Putin is asking The Saker… to ask you… how to handle this one

    The big elephant in the room has been there since December 25, 1991
    Those who sold off the USSR, have also sold off Armenia, and are still in power

    Everyone today is expecting Russia, a midget and a joke of a country,
    when compared to the USSR in military and economic terms,
    to fly its (Soviet!!!) MIGs and the SUs to scare the NATO and/or Turkey

    Why is it that not a single shot was fired on December 25, 1991???
    If Russian officers under oath to defend their own country
    had no balls to drop a single bomb for their country back then

    Do you really think they will do it today? NO, NO, NO
    Not before they put Gorbachev into prison and
    the Eltsin name is taken off their National Library…

    The true and the best of the Russians have been exterminated and have fallen in the Revolution
    on both side
    The whatever hope was left, fell in the WW2
    The genetic clour of the nation has trully been lost!
    This is now a country of the midgets
    With a brainless president asking the Saker
    to ask you, for your advice, on how to run the country
    What a disgrace!

    • Replies: @vot tak
    , @AnonFromTN
  78. @GMC

    If you read the cablegate telexes, the US Embassy in Kiev paid for an exit poll. Nothing else.

  79. Alfred says:
    @Z-man

    the Armenians are better fighters, have more to fight for.

    Defenders have great advantages in that landscape. They are dug in and their communications are secure. I am sure someone is figuring out a way to neutralise drones right now.

  80. anon[137] • Disclaimer says:

    The US should advertise for Armenians to move to California and probably everyone would leave en-mass, since there are quite a few Armenians there already. Armenia could be re-populated with Boers from South Africa. Since the Boers have no ancestral or religious ties to the area, they wouldn’t have any scirmishes with the locals and would work out a peaceful solution. Erdogan and Aliev should then get the Solomani treatment to end the tension in that area and everyone can trade and have peaceful relations. The benefit to the US would be that California would get a couple of million smart, conservative Christian people that would tilt California politics to the right again.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  81. Lavrov has a long track record of incompetence. He could mess this up too.

    • Replies: @annamaria
    , @A.K.Patal
  82. vot tak says:

    As with his earlier piece on this conflict, saker doesn’t mention israeli/zionazi influence in both Azerbaijan and Armenia. While he does say the conflict benefits american interests, he downplays their possible hand by simply saying there is no hard evidence of it and leaves it at that. My impression is saker is trying to put most of the blame on turkey for the conflict.

    “beginning with the party which started the war: Azerbaijan.”

    I’ve been following both Sputnik and RT reporting on the conflict and both of these Russian government news sources are reporting both sides claim the other side started it, neither news site claims either side started it. Azerbaijan may have started it, but Sputnik/RT reticence in naming who started it, may indicate there is some ambiguity about who is responsible. I’m waiting for some definitive answers still.

    “One major concern for Russia is the movement of Turkish-run Takfiris from Syria to Azerbaijan. The Russians have already confirmed that this has taken place”

    Where have the Russian government confirmed this? Read an article on Sputnik or RT yesterday where President Assad speculated the turks are moving terrorists from Syria to Azerbaijan, but he also said there is not any hard evidence of this and it is speculation based upon past turkish behaviour.

    In his discussion of Russian options, I didn’t see much in the article about the Russian option which is the obvious one they would proceed with. The one they have obviously been working towards bringing about. Really, the only logical option, actually. That is bring both sides to the negotiation table. This they did, and saker had to reluctantly acknowledge this. He calls it a miracle, to excuse his lack of coverage of this obvious and logical Russian move, but does give due credit to Lavrov in getting it done.

    • Replies: @TheIdiot
    , @Yevardian
  83. Anonymous[827] • Disclaimer says:

    As in Syria and (western) Ukraine, we’re seeing yet again how completely useless it is to have Russia as an “ally”.

    • Replies: @Arnieus
    , @annamaria
  84. Miro23 says:
    @Igivenoshit

    Visegard has as much influence on the world politics in general
    and the EU foreign policy in particular
    as the Maine and Nebraska in the US electoral college,
    i.e. NONE

    Population Visegrad – 63 million. Population European Union – 445 million. 63/445 = 14%

    Population Maine & Nebraska – 3 million. Population USA – 328 million. 3/328 = 1%

    At 63 million, Visegrad does have influence. Ref. pop. Germany 83 million or France 66 million.

    • Replies: @Igivenoshit
  85. @Miro23

    Good idea, keep having intercourse with no abortions until you overtake Germany

    Make an adjustment for their annual, 1-2 million, organized “refugee” intake

    I guess your girls will have to reproduce around the clock in order to compensate for the Calergi plan

  86. TheIdiot says:
    @vot tak

    You are trusting Russian RT and Sputnik on who “started” the war even though

    It is a well known fact that Putin has been selling arms to both sides in this war for decades?

    • Agree: Yevardian
    • Replies: @vot tak
  87. Arnieus says:
    @Sunshine

    The US media doesn’t want their sheeple pondering war, or anything else real.

  88. Arnieus says:
    @Anonymous

    But for Russia there would be no western Ukraine or Syria.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  89. Beckow says:
    @Fiendly Neighbourhood Terrorist

    Ok, now tell us why are Armenians not responsible for ‘Pashinyan’ and his policies? They chose him, they support him, they will need to live with the consequences.

    Same goes for Saakasvilli and Zelensky. Why do you think that Armenia is of any strategic importance? They are a definition of a backwater. Whatever alliance they join has minimal impact on the world strategic situation. And they chose Pashinyan, he is still in power. Life is really not much more than consequence management.This happens to small nations in that region again and again, they get infatuated (and bought) by Western talk and then they pay the price. But they never learn.

    • Replies: @TheIdiot
    , @Avery
    , @Avery
  90. vot tak says:
    @TheIdiot

    Sod off

    Well chosen nick, btw, shlomo.

    • Replies: @A.
  91. vot tak says:
    @Igivenoshit

    This is what zio-faggotry looks like when applied to internet discussion. Seriously, why would a straight male write this sort of nonsense?

    • Replies: @A.
  92. @TheIdiot

    Guam, Alaska or Hawaii

    What do those three areas have to do with the Caribbean?

    We should keep Alaska. Guam, Hawaii, and Puerto Rico can all be given their independence. Any thing that happens outside the area between 30 W and 180 W is none of our business and should be left to Russia India, or China to deal with.

    • Replies: @SaneClownPosse
  93. TheIdiot says:
    @Beckow

    the world strategic situation is
    that every pawn in the game does mater
    a pawn may become a queen
    or it could check-mate the king

    Armenia is a pawn indeed
    Russia/n/Jewish oligarchs sold it off long ago
    The sell off of Armenia may well be the end of Russia as a sovereign state
    The German Tzars of Russia understood this
    (Germans, not the Russians build the Russian Empire;
    Jews, not the Russians took that Empire into pieces)

    The current Russian Tzars of Russia have no idea of what they have been selling off since 1991

    • Replies: @Beckow
  94. @Igivenoshit

    Russia, a midget and a joke of a country,

    Why don’t you tell this to Western MSM? They mention Russia at least as often as China. What’s more, they mention Putin more often than Xi. Considering that Western MSM are 100% controlled by Western elites, it’s not just a perception of ignorant journos. What gives?

    • Agree: annamaria
  95. Agent76 says:

    October 8, 2020 While No One Was Looking: America, Guyana, And Venezuela

    The US was a leading voice in the call for a recount and the US applied a great deal of pressure on Granger to hand over the office of President.

    https://original.antiwar.com/ted_snider/2020/10/08/while-no-one-was-looking-america-guyana-and-venezuela/

  96. Avery says:
    @Beckow

    {Ok, now tell us why are Armenians not responsible for ‘Pashinyan’ and his policies?}

    Armenian voters are responsible: one of the “fringe benefits” of Democracy. Comes with the the territory. The previous Sargsyan administration made some mistakes, they became arrogant, people wanted change…..and demagogue Pashinyan skillfully seized the moment to become PM.
    People of RoA are already unhappy with him. We’ll see how long he hangs on.
    But right now, there are more urgent matters to attend to, than worry about Pashinyan.
    Veterans of Karabagh war (1991-1994) whom he hounded and jailed on false charges are right now in Artsakh helping with the war effort.

    {Why do you think that Armenia is of any strategic importance?}

    Why do you think Moscow has a base in Armenia, with ~5,000 RF troops stationed in Gyumri, with an attached fighter wing, with RoA air-defense system fully integrated with RF’s Southern air-defense system,….etc,etc. RoA provides the land for the base free of charge, and RF pays for all the costs of maintaining the base. I am pretty sure Moscow is not doing that because they feel extra generous towards ‘backwards’ Armenia. Maybe they see a teeny weeny bit of strategic importance in Armenia? But maybe you know better.

    { They are a definition of a backwater}

    You have no clue.
    During USSR, little Armenia provided 30% of SU’s military electronics.(check it out)
    The famous Lunokhod, which launched the robotic exploration of space – first in the world – was designed by Alexander Kemurdzhian (in USSR). The famous MiG line of fighter jets was designed by Mikoyan and Gurevich design bureau. Etc, Etc. I am sure those Armenians came from a, quote, ‘backwater’ gene pool.

    {This happens to small nations in that region again and again, they get infatuated (and bought) by Western talk and then they pay the price. But they never learn.}

    You have no clue.
    Look who is talking.
    Obviously when Russians democratically elected drunkard Yeltsin who wrecked Russia and brought it to the brink of dissolution, who allowed Western gangsters to loot Russia of 100s of $Billions, Russia was a, quote, ‘small nation in the region’.

    Genius Russian leaders (yes, Putin & Co) allowed Ukraine, their Slavic kin, to become a bleeding sore on their border, and a potential NATO threat.
    Genius Russian leaders (yes, Putin & Co.) watch helplessly, while their Slavic kin in Belarus are on the verge of flying off of Moscow’s orbit and into the bosom of the GloboSorosistas.

    Small nations like Ukraine and Belarus never learn, do they?

  97. annamaria says:
    @TheIdiot

    “What is the USSR without the Baltics, Kazakhstan, Ukraine, Moldavia and Georgia?
    Correct – a gas station.”

    — First, the survived entity is called the Russian Federation. Second, for an Israel-firster, you are too quick to dismiss Russia’s ongoing restoration, which has been irritating the ZUSA to no end. The same irritation has been exhibited towards the robust recovery of China. Perhaps you need to ponder on why the ZUSA is so hysterical about these two countries.

    As a side note, you might want to check the best young American mathematicians’ ethnicity to get an idea of the American future. You will also benefit from reading Martyanov; he is a professional, and his opinion is solidly professional, not some childish ejaculations.
    You are welcome.

    • Thanks: Jim Christian
  98. KA says:
    @Vojkan

    How many did France kill in the lands currently divided among Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Palestine and Iraq?

    France is a little shitty old history that keeps on still motivating it’s murderous behaviors. How many that shitty little shite bastard Christian country has killed in Francophone Africa whose large chunk is inhabited by Muslim?

    We go back 100 years to remind the current victims of the supposed war time atrocities of their co- religionist in Ottoman . Is it to soften them? Is it to paralyze them morally so that they accept the bull shit GWOT and accept the horrendous psychological profile created by Charle Hedbo and the aftermath?
    Remember ,the war was imposed on Turkey by bunch of Christian Bible freaks .

    • Troll: GazaPlanet
    • Replies: @Vojkan
  99. annamaria says:
    @Philip Owen

    Is this Mr. Pompeo himself visiting the Unz forum?

  100. Avery says:
    @Beckow

    {MAY 21, 199212 AM
    TIMES STAFF WRITER
    MOSCOW — The military commander in chief of the Commonwealth of Independent States warned Wednesday that if outside powers intervene in the Armenian-Azerbaijani conflict in Nagorno-Karabakh, “we shall be on the brink of a new world war.”}*

    {The comment by Marshal Yevgeny I. Shaposhnikov came in the wake of recent indications from Turkish leaders that they would consider sending arms or even troops to bolster Azerbaijan in its festering conflict with Armenia.}

    I am pretty sure Moscow would not threaten a new (nuclear) world war for a, quote, ‘strategic backwater’, would it? Or maybe you know better.

    _____________________________
    * https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1992-05-21-mn-337-story.html

  101. annamaria says:
    @Anonymous

    Who are these mysterious “we?” The Integrity Initiative’s operators?

    • Agree: Dr.C. Fhandrich
    • LOL: Antiwar7
  102. sally says:
    @Cyrano

    Any chance the recent Israeli agreement with Sunni Arab leadership involved here?
    I don’t think any comments have yet explained this war..

    • Replies: @Cyrano
  103. Beckow says:
    @Avery

    We are not as far apart as your tone implies :). I agree about Yeltsin and the 90’s, even to a large extent about the soft continuation of the same policies under Putin. But Russia is a big country; large countries and pretty girls can get away with a lot, others not so much. That’s just life.

    Pashinyan was not an unknown in 2018 and his rhetoric – very Soros-like and anti-Russia – had to be known to the people who marched him into power. He is still there. I know very little about the previous guys, you are probably right, but when changing things it is not what we discard that matters, but what is brought into power – people too often forget that. In effect, the perception is that Armenians wanted Pashinyan&Co. with all that entails, including his liberal Russophobia.

    I don’t mean the ‘backwater‘ as a negative, (I live in a backwater and like it), simply that geographically Armenia is not very essential: it is deep inland with constrained geography and nothing that cannot be had elsewhere in the vicinity. The Russian base is important, but not essential. And why risk having a base in a country where government (and by implication the ‘Armenian people‘) want to be friends with someone else? It is a cost-benefit equation. There is a price that smaller nations pay for trying to sit in between two chairs.

    I have no doubt about the achievements of Armenians, in the past and now. This is not about it (I believe Lavrov is half-Armenian). It is much simpler: playing silly games with one’s only realistic protector when in a very exposed situation has consequences. This applies to many other countries, but in Armenia’s case both the danger and the risk were always much higher. Maybe Macron can help – a lot of Armenians seemed to think that France-EU is what they need. Let’s see if they can deliver.

  104. Beckow says:
    @TheIdiot

    You need to be more explicit, otherwise your opaque points are neither here nor there. Your generalisations are just that: too broad to be correct, too vague to be false. Tell us what are we missing, I always like fresh viewpoints…And I admit that my knowledge of Armenia is minimal.

  105. Yevardian says:
    @vot tak

    I’ve been following both Sputnik and RT reporting on the conflict and both of these Russian government news sources are reporting both sides claim the other side started it, neither news site claims either side started it. Azerbaijan may have started it, but Sputnik/RT reticence in naming who started it, may indicate there is some ambiguity about who is responsible. I’m waiting for some definitive answers still.

    Give one (1) possible thing Armenia had to gain by initiating this conflict. They have all the territory they want, besides nearly all the Armenian historical/cultural monuments in Nakhichevan or Azerbaijan-proper have been detonated by the Turks some time ago. Just look at Azeri/Armenian military spending the past decade for your answer.

    Of course Russian media wants to play up ambiguity, admitting a clear aggressor would pressure them to act, they don’t want to get involved in another Caucasus mess. Russia can’t afford to cast-away Azerbaijan however hostile it is, it has enormous oil reserves and intimate ties to Turkey, whilst Armenia’s exports are limited to common metals, cognac and apricots.

    Another thing the saker, our dear military expert, forgot to mention in contributing to anti-Russian sentiment was the Gyumri massacre, where a Russian serviceman went AWOL and murdered an entire family, receiving a light sentence. You could say the anti-Russian response wasn’t entirely rational, but it is understandable.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Gyumri_massacre

    • Replies: @Blade
    , @vot tak
  106. @Avery

    I would share this response all over, and to it I’ll add:

    Modern elections are mostly stage managed affairs anyway.

  107. @Chris Mallory

    The Petrodollar Empire begs to differ.

    The Global Force for Greed sails the seven seas in an failing attempt to maintain dollar hegemony.

  108. Blade says:
    @Yevardian

    I don’t know if they would want it or not, but if they leave NK, there would be no reason for Turkey to keep the borders closed. It would allow Armenia to flourish. Unlike what selfish diaspora imagines, Turkey isn’t seeking to destroy Armenia, already over 100K Armenians work in Turkey (Armenian citizens, not Turkish Armenians). It would be better for Turkey if all neighbors had stability, and decent economies. This whole Russia is Armenia’s protector, France is Armenians’ friend stuff is all a scam. They just want to keep a thorn on Turkey’s side, and they are the real cause of the civil war in the last century. They are like mafia thugs who protect you if you pay them. In the end you lose more than you gain.

  109. FB says: • Website
    @alwayswrite

    Yup drone strikes are a real game changer

    No, drones are not much more than scale model aircraft that hobbyists have been building and flying for decades…and with about the same combat potential…

    It’ll make a mockery of all that propaganda blather about S300/400/500 air defence systems!

    In fact those system are already being bypassed by Israeli F35 in their raids against Iranian proxies in Syria

    That only exists in your dreams…

    Israelis have not actually flown into Syrian airspace in many months, ever since the Syrians shot down that F16 with the ancient S200 back in January of 2018.

    A picture taken in the northern Israeli Kibbutz of Harduf on February 10, 2018, shows the remains of an F-16 that crashed after coming under fire by Syrian air defenses (AFP PHOTO / Jack GUEZ)

    The Israelis launch missiles into Syria from well outside Syrian airspace, usually Lebanon…so much for Israel taking on Russian SAMs…

    The F35 is a continuing science project that has no chance to become an effective combat aircraft due to basic physics…even if all of its many glitches are ironed out…

    As for drones of the small type that Turkey employs, dozens of those were shot down in northern Syria after Turkey started using them in support of the headchoppers there…They made no difference whatsoever to the outcome, and the SAA took back and continues to hold more than half of Idlib governorate…

    Those small drones are marginal aircraft, useful mostly for surveillance and recon, and especially against an unsophisticated foe lacking any type of effective air defenses…These craft are similar to what would be called an ultralight or microlight in light aviation, and use the same kind of small piston engines [Rotax 100 hp, four cylinder] used in such light sport aircraft…they can only reach about 100 mph…and are nothing more than target practice for any real air defense system…

    The loud noises made by the Turkish side about the ‘devastating’ successes of those drones was mostly unverified nonsense…it’s possible they scored a few hits on Syrian troops and equipment when they were first employed, due mostly to the element of surprise, but the Syrians quickly cleared the skies of these little gnats…

    The same is likely true in Nagorno Karabakh…a lot of empty propaganda noise coming from the Azeri side with no real evidence to back it up…

    As it stands, the Azeris have made no real advances in territory after more than two weeks of supposedly ‘devastating’ drone action…

    • Replies: @alwayswrite
    , @Jazman
  110. Dutch Boy says:

    The map suggests a simple solution: a strip to connect the Armenian region to the rest of Armenia and another strip to connect the separate areas of Azerbaijan. The roadblock is that Reason seldom overcomes Hate.

  111. Vojkan says:
    @KA

    Little shitty old history France: roads, railways, schools, hospitals. Ottomans: mosques, population replacement, ethnic cleansing, genocide, eunuchs, janissaries. Little shitty old history France: Descartes, Pascal, Cauchy, Fourier, Lagrange, Poincaré, Pierre and Marie Curie, Frédéric and Irène Joliot-Curie, Racine, Corneille, Molière, Voltaire, Diderot, Dumas father and son, Balzac, Hugo, Stendhal, Camus… Sublime Turkey: Ø.
    How many French immigrants in Turkey? How many Turkish immigrants in France? How many Christian immigrants in Islamic countries? How many Muslim immigrants in Christian countries? White Christian Europeans should have let you die of cholera, typhus, diphteria and starve of hunger in your countries instead of letting you in, Islam would be much less of a nuisance today.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @anonymous
  112. Anon[470] • Disclaimer says:

    I like the fact that Armenia bombed an Azerbaijan city named after weed. They smoked Ganja. One of my students said THC was rising from the rubble of Ganja.

    • LOL: hhsiii
    • Replies: @anon
  113. A.K.Patal says:
    @Philip Owen

    Excellent question! He sounds like Pompeo.

  114. @FB

    The empty propaganda is only coming from the Russians

    They claim these big area denial capabilities,bubbles,no go zones,which are created by the extended range of their missile systems,which don’t actually work

    By their own propaganda and weapons envelopes therse weapons should be able to shoot Israeli fighters down over Lebanon,they don’t,oh plus F35 flew over Iran without the Iranians even knowing

    As for your claims about drones,well that simply demonstrates a degree of self induced ignorance,incidentally if drones are so useless,as you claim,then why are Russia developing their own high tech stealth drone????

    Oh, and America unveiled their sixth generation fighter just a few weeks ago,it took them only one year to develop this fighter!

    The Russian are in a new arms race they can’t,and wont win,their own fifth generation fighter is plagued with problems

    Russia make claims for these weapons as a marketing tool,they have the best SAM blah,blah,blah!!!!

    I remember when a young West German, Mateus Rust flew his Cessna light aircraft and landed it in Red Square,and that was during the Cold War against the most heavily defended air space in history,how embarrassing for the Soviets 😂😂😂😂

    America is gonna win the next arms race in the air,with the new sixth generation fighter,AI, and drone swarms,like the one DARPA demonstrated a couple of years ago,then Russia will be left selling all tgeir heavy junk S300/400/500 junk to idiots like Iranian dictators and Assad !

    • LOL: Verymuchalive
    • Replies: @FB
  115. @Miro23

    Poland is the biggest net recipient of EU funds – in 2015 it got €13.4bn (£11.7bn; $14.2bn) from the EU.

    Since 2004 Poland has received subsidies of the order of 100bn euros from the EU.
    For the period 2021-27, there are plans to give it another 140bn euros.

    https://www.thefirstnews.com/article/poland-biggest-beneficiary-of-eus-cohesion-fund—pm-14322

    And still millions of Poles have left for Western Europe. Without EU subsidies, Poland would be in dire straits, if not a basket case. Rather like Israel. Without American subsidies, both public and private, Israel would be an impoverished Middle Eastern state without any power to project itself militarily. It would have reached some form of peace deal with the Arabs long ago.
    Polish governments are very much creatures of the EU. If the EU says NATO, Poland follows. By the EU this essentially means Germany. The EU is very beneficial for Germany as it constitutes a captive market for German manufacturers. NATO is very convenient for Germany because it is a cheap form of defence as most of the cost is borne by America.
    Things would change if Germany left NATO or limited its connection. Despite friction with recent American Presidents, the lure of a cheap price defence deal still seems very strong for Germany. So no change soon from Germany either.

  116. Smith says:

    To be honest, the turks are proving everybody wrong in the region with their push, it seems they aren’t the paper tiger ruskies thought them to be.

    I wonder if this push is natural/organic or they are financed by someone else.

    Wisdom says the US since this is going against Russia, but China is also a possibility since turks connect with Pakistan to form the Silk Road, and with turks on their side, China can effectively control/isolate Russia from the East.

    Either ways, this seems like a shitshow, but it depends on how aggressive the turks are willing to go.

    • Replies: @Mary Marianne
  117. hhsiii says:

    Russia is much stronger militarily than The Empire?

  118. Anon[152] • Disclaimer says:
    @Vojkan

    France has not given the world . World took them from France and it was not free .
    Any country after looting other countries , could have also provided those services – philosophies embodied by new thinkers , scientific by new scholars and improved public services introduced by engineers . Rest of the world then would have bought , taken , exchanged those services and would have allowed some of those philosophers to dominate their lives or academia for a while.

    Before answering how many French are in Turkey , let’s count how many of them were in Chad , Mali, Niger, Haiti or were rampaging in Syria Lebanon . Actually they are still doing in each of those countries .
    Without the resources stolen , France would be a little shitty country.

  119. Anonymous[104] • Disclaimer says:

    So, allowing it’s allies to get ass-raped over real and imagined slights is all part of grand Russian strategy? Yeah, sounds real fucking brilliant to me. Maybe the Russians should start asking themselves why so many of their allies are willing to listen to American bullshit.

  120. @Z-man

    Wishful thinking on my part to save lives…

  121. anon[283] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    Azerbazian should take the fight to Yerevan and let the Armenian military smoke the hashsish.
    It is already intoxicated with victimhood.

    • Replies: @Robjil
  122. @Anonymous

    Here is an extract from my own article:

    “…the Putinoid position that Russia only needs to “look after itself” is asinine, as imbecilic as the idea that Armenia will come crawling back if only Putin allows Nagorno Karabakh to be overrun. In fact, all it will do is convince everybody – including China – that there is no more unreliable ally and protector than Vladimir Putin. Is this what the Putinoids want? Really?”

    https://bill-purkayastha.blogspot.com/2020/10/the-sultan-and-grandmaster-nagorno.html?m=1

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @anon
    , @TheIdiot
  123. vot tak says:
    @Yevardian

    Actually, shlomo, your comment has zero relation to what you quoted from me and is simply the usual zionazi-(very)gay trolling you websayanim engage in.

    You are not helping israel, you are, by example, showing israel is way beyond fixing.

    • Replies: @Yevardian
  124. @Anon

    France still extracts colonial era taxes from its “former” African colonies and until the 1950s still forced “reparations” from Haiti for the 1805 revolution. As compensation for the loss of slave labour.

    As an Australian friend of mine of Serb origin, who lived in France for many years, told me on hearing of the so called ISIS attack on Paris: “Fuck France. Fuck France, I say!”

  125. A lot of these points are “blablabla” window dressing. The real questions you need to ask in such situations are always economic ones:

    – Who has oil, gas and/or valuable mines and who does not?
    – Where is the money going?
    – Who profited from the status quo and who is profiting from the current chaos?

  126. Anonymous[100] • Disclaimer says:
    @Fiendly Neighbourhood Terrorist

    Great blog post, spot-on. Always amusing to hear Team Russia dip-shits here dismiss constant Israeli air strikes in Syria as mere “annoyances”, etc. But the pattern of Russian inaction across the sphere of Russian interest is beyond obvious.

  127. @Smith

    I find it rather doubtful that China would finance Turks, considering that Turkey is one of ETIM’s sponsors, which had been causing massive amounts of terrorism in Xinjiang and elsewhere in China in the previous decades. It’s only been in the last couple of years that China managed to quash these terrorists.

    • Replies: @Smith
  128. Robjil says:
    @anon

    The Turks are into victim hood big time. They took 40 percent of Cyprus.

    Chased the Greeks out.

    The Turks have 300000 sq. miles. Azeris have 30000 sq. miles.

    Armenian has a tiny 11000 sq miles of its historical area. NK is even tinier at 1700 sq. miles.

    Why are two Turks bothering tiny Armenia? They have tons of land that was once Armenian in the past?

    • Replies: @Blade
  129. FB says: • Website
    @alwayswrite

    As for your claims about drones,well that simply demonstrates a degree of self induced ignorance

    Look, asshat…

    I’m an aerospace engineer and airline transport-rated pilot [ATP] with many thousands of hours in my logbook as pilot in command in the Boeing triple seven and several other types…

    You obviously know diddly squat about aeronautics and would for sure be unable to solve even a basic math problem…so I’m not going to waste a lot of time on your ignorant noises here…

    But for other folks here who may think that a little ultralight prop plane capable of 100 mph is some kind of ‘magic’ weapon, here is a little basic info…

    This is the General Atomics ‘Predator’ MQ1, the most produced US UAV by far…

    And here are the specifications of the MQ1:

    Cruise speed of just 81 knots, which is about 95 mph.

    Engine is the Rotax 914 used in literally thousands of ultralights around the world:

    Here’s a popular ultralight using the SAME Rotax engine…

    These Rotax engines are also used in snowmobiles, jet-skis, those off-road ‘four-wheelers’ etc…

    Here’s a Turkish Bayraktar wreckage in Syria…

    Like I said, CLOWN…these toys are nothing more than an ultralight with the same kind of aerial capabilities…it would not be too difficult even for a determined hobbyists to take an ultralight, equip it with radio remote control and put weapons on it [although getting missiles might be difficult]…

    This crapola is nowheresville…

    Meanwhile, Russia has already fielded the world’s first and only hypersonic intercontinental, maneuvering missile, the Avangard…and the first operational, hypersonic scramjet engine in the Zirkon cruise missile…neither of which advanced technologies the US is remotely capable of…

    The US continues to buy advanced Russian rocket engines because they have absolutely no capability to produce advanced, closed cycle engines of the size that Russia makes…in fact US uses the RD180 engine to launch its most crucial national security payloads…

    Just recently the US was able to send its first manned flight to the ISS, the core of which is Russian technology, built in Russia, after nearly a decade of no human spaceflight capability…

    Clowns like you that know zilch about any kind of aeronautics [or any technical science whatsoever] can screech all you want about some kind of ‘drones’…which is nothing but ignorance…

    • Troll: Blade
    • Replies: @Blade
    , @Tim too
    , @Anonymous
  130. Cyrano says:
    @sally

    I think John Lennon summed it up the best: “Middle east, crazy beast, rock ‘n rollers sing for peace”. Nothing good ever comes from the Middle East. The 3 religions that sprung from that cursed place should be called the 3 terrors – as opposed to the 3 tenors who at least had some pleasant effects on the ear, rather than each of the 3 terrors whose main preoccupation is delivering messages of hate for the other 2 less talented religions.

  131. Blade says:
    @Robjil

    You are wrong as before. By the time Turkey was involved in Cyprus, it was already mostly ethnically divided due to violent campaigns by Greek EOKA terrorists. Cypriot Turks in the South were kicked out of their homes, and majority of Turks were already in the Northern part. It is strange that Greeks and their friends can always lie with a straight face, even when the recorded evidence is there, said no one other than by Cypriot Greek and Greek leaders at the time, that they will get rid of Turks from Cyprus and unify the island with Greece. I say it again, Greek leaders themselves made these statements. Of course you pretend evidence doesn’t exists and that Turkey invaded the island for absolutely no reason.

    With regards to Armenia, there is barely any similarities. In Turkey’s case Turkey was a guarantor state and had to act after a decade of warnings, murders of families Turkish officers (yes, your Greek friends killed babies and wife of Turkish officer Nihat Ilhan when he wasn’t at home), and an on going ethnic cleansing. In case of Armenia, none of this stuff happened. They just took advantage of situation, the fact that Azeris were ill equipped, and invaded a part of another country.

    • Replies: @Robjil
    , @Verymuchalive
  132. Blade says:
    @FB

    What an assclown you are. Since you don’t understand what you are talking about let me correct a few things. First, Turkey’s drones come in all sizes Akinci is as larger than MQ1 you posted above, TB2 is smaller, there are still smaller kamikaze drones, there is also Anka and high altitude drones. They absolutely decimated Russian ADFs in both Syria and Libya. Then it suddenly became mistake of Arabs that these systems weren’t working. There are dozens of videos where a radar active ADF gets destroyed. Hence bunch of countries got in line to buy Turkish drones. You don’t even get that it’s the software that makes drones lethal, otherwise anyone knows that they are not fighter jets, and for a small, cheap drone capable of detroying $45M Russian ADFs it is perfectly acceptable to have smaller engines. It is a feature, not a bug. Also, as far as I can see, I don’t see any better Chinese or Russian drones.

    • Replies: @FB
    , @Tim too
  133. Tim too says:
    @FB

    The real changes are the Su 57 and 70 UAVs. Those will out perform any manned 5G competitor.

    Or is that incorrect?

    • Replies: @FB
  134. vot tak says:

    “Iran, which is often forgotten, is not directly involved in the conflict, at least so far, but has been generally sympathetic to Armenia, primarily because Erdogan’s neo-Ottoman ideology represents a danger for the entire region, including Iran.”

    What saker claims here is mostly nonsense and a gross out of date oversimplification of Iranian interests and relations with Armenia, Azerbaijan and turkey. The role israel plays in Armenia and Azerbaijan has influenced Iranian policy towards these 2 countries, but so has Iran’s own social interconnections with both of them.

    What’s behind Iran’s sudden realignment with Turkey?

    https://responsiblestatecraft.org/2020/07/01/whats-behind-irans-sudden-realignment-with-turkey/

    The article gives a good idea of what has recently changed in Iranian-turk relations and some ideas as to why. It doesn’t mention israel and that mutual convergence of their relations (the israelis want destroy Iran as they had their western colonies wreak iraq, and gobbling up part of turkey to incorporate into “greater” israel is a long term zionazi goal), but provides info of mutual and divergent interests the 2 counties have in enough detail so that one can see it is neither country’s interests to be foes.

    The portrayal of Iran-turk relations is also similarly inaccurate. I’ll start with these:

    The Iran relations with Azerbaijan and Armenia I will post in another comment.

    • Replies: @vot tak
  135. FB says: • Website
    @Blade

    What an assclown you are. Since you don’t understand what you are talking about…

    And you actually think you know something about aeronautics, you illiterate Turkish peasant?

    Why don’t you read my analysis of the Houthi cruise missiles, on which noted MIT scientist Ted Postol collaborated?

    The Quds 1: A Technical Analysis of the Houthi Cruise Missile

    I’ve been an aerospace engineer for over 30 years, graduated from military test pilot school and have worked as an engineering test pilot and flight test engineer on many of the well known passenger jets that you would fly on if you were able to afford shoes and a shirt, and were able to sign your name… CLOWN…

    They absolutely decimated Russian ADFs in both Syria and Libya.

    Sure they did, clown…which is why the Syrian army cleaned up Idlib and took half of the headchoippers’ territory there…only letting this filth now stew termporarily until they decide to clean the rest out…

    All of the noises generated by the silly Turks are just vapor…a lot of photoshopped videos of these little ultralights ‘scoring’ hits on supposed Russian air defense systems, as if…The US and NATO in 1999 with 1,000 aircraft wasn’t able to take out the Serbian air defenses even after 78 days of massive airstrikes…and Serbia, with its antique 1950s vintage Russian air defenses was able to knock out TWO flagship US ‘stealth’ fighters…

    Canopy, ejection seat and wing of F-117, serial number 82-0806, shot down over Serbia in 1999; Belgrade Aviation Museum, Serbia

    And now you illiterate Turkish goat herders want to sell the world some nonsense about how your little ultralights [using Rotax snowmobile engines made in Austria] are killing Russian air defenses…?

    That’s pretty funny…

    • Replies: @Jazman
    , @Blade
  136. anon[283] • Disclaimer says:
    @Fiendly Neighbourhood Terrorist

    Russia wants to be accepted as respected ally . It will settle for a status of a junior partner to USA but would like to be in a senior position to UK France etc . But US won’t have any of that.

    Spencer type white nationalist wants Putin to be accepted as equal partner and wants to portray the survival as a fight against China and entire Muslim world . It wants to nuke Pakistan and embrace India.

    Racism has blinded these psycho. Reason is something they cover with the KKK hat.

  137. FB says: • Website
    @Tim too

    The real changes are the Su 57 and 70 UAVs. Those will out perform any manned 5G competitor.

    Or is that incorrect?

    There is definite niche for unmanned aerial vehicles, and not all UAVs are in the same category…you have everything from hand launched little flyers like you would see in a model shop, and which come in a tube that a soldier carries in his backpack, to very large jet-powered aircraft like the Northrop Grumman MQ4 Triton, which is a 200 million dollar aircraft that can fly at heights of over 60,000 ft…

    The Russian Su70 Okhotnik UAV still in development is also jet powered and quite large, being about the size of a large fighter jet, and capable of similar speed and performance…

    In between you have these little ultralight-engined putters like the Predator, the Turkish knockoffs and various Israeli models like the Harop, seen here shot down just hours ago in Nagorno Karabakh…

    Obviously such 100 mph aircraft are no threat to any competent air defenses…but that’s the point, they are useful against adversaries who have no such defenses…the US has been using Predators and the larger General Atomics MQ9 ‘Reaper’ model to hunt down and take out terrorists driving around in cars or hiding and houses and whatnot…

    Foes like the Taliban, Isis etc obviously have no defense against this kind light aircraft that would otherwise be a sitting duck for a surface to air missile system…

    Still, even those little UAVs can be effective in some situations if they are used properly…for instance the Israeli UAVs are quite small, so they are more difficult to pick up on radar…and they incorporate some good tactical measures like carrying an onboard camera, which allows the operator to guide the UAV in real time…

    This is not a big deal, since even hobby remote control aircraft often employ this FPV, which stands for first-person view…

    The key difference in serious UAVs is being able to remotely control them over long distances, which requires a satellite link…most of the US and Israeli UAVs have this since they have access to sats [although Israel is not capable of launching sats into space by themselves and usually relies on Russia to launch its sats]…

    The drawback with the satlink control is the signal delay that is usually several seconds, since it takes time for that radio signal to travel to a sat in high geostationary orbit [36,000 miles], get processed and then travel to flying UAV…this makes the thing pretty much useless for any kind of flying where split-second maneuvering is required…

    The Turkish drones don’t have the satlink capability, because the backward Turks don’t have access to satellite technology…they are trying to implement this but nobody is going to help them put up a sat that can be used for remotely controlling UAVs…they did manage to demonstrate one such sat link flight in the last couple of years, using one of their communication satellites that the Italians built for them…

    So the Turkish drones have to rely on line of sight radio control, just like hobby models…however if you put the controller into an aircraft flying at 30,000 ft, you can control that UAV over a distance of perhaps 100 miles or more…

    Incidentally, the hobbyists could go much farther distances also, but they are restricted by the FAA and analogous regulatory aviation bodies in other countries from flying beyond the operator’s visual range, and also restricted to height etc…

    Bottom line is that UAVs are not any kind of game changer…the Iranians quickly shot down that 200 million dollar MQ4 as soon as it strayed into Iranian airspace…there is very little real utility to these things in a peer to peer conflict as things stand now…

    The problem is that there is no real science media in the western world, where people writing about these things actually have some real engineering and scientific credentials…so they simply regurgitate a lot of non-factual nonsense…of course most of the general public is quite technical illiterate, so they believe all the lousy information that is put out…

    • Replies: @Tim too
  138. Robjil says:
    @Blade

    This article is an example of the hatred that Turks and Azeris have for history of the lands that they control by conquest.

    https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2019/mar/01/monumental-loss-azerbaijan-cultural-genocide-khachkars

    According to a lengthy report published in the art journal Hyperallergic in February, the Azerbaijani government has, over the past 30 years, been engaging in a systematic erasure of the country’s historic Armenian heritage. This official, albeit covert, destruction of cultural and religious artefacts exceeds Islamic State’s self-promotional dynamiting of Palmyra, according to the report’s authors, Simon Maghakyan and Sarah Pickman.

    Turks and Azeris hate history. They love destroying the history of humanity.

    Maghakyan, a Denver-based analyst, activist and lecturer in political science, labels it “the greatest cultural genocide of the 21st century”. He grew up with stories about his father visiting a beautiful, mysterious place called Djulfa. Located in the Azerbaijani enclave of Nakhichevan, on the banks of the Araxes river, it was the site of a medieval necropolis, the largest ancient Armenian cemetery in the world. Visitors through the centuries, from Alexandre de Rhodes to William Ouseley, had noted the remote location’s splendour.

    At its height, the graveyard counted around 10,000 khachkars, or cross stones, standing to attention, the earliest dating back to the 6th century. Unique to Armenian burial traditions, these distinctive tall steles of pinkish red and yellow stone feature crosses, figurative scenes and symbols, and highly decorative relief patterning. By the time the Soviets formalised the autonomous regions of Nagorno-Karabakh and Nakhichevan in 1920, after decades of plunder, less than 3,000 khachkars remained. Subsequent episodic vandalism led Unesco in 2000 to order that the monuments be preserved.

    • Replies: @Blade
  139. Anonymous[260] • Disclaimer says:
    @FB

    Bullshit. You’re a blowhard whose main talent is cutting and pasting irrelevant text book material and spewing insults.

  140. @Blade

    When a Turk or a Turkish apologist complains of ethnic cleansing, a reasonable person can only laugh out loud. In the C20th Greeks and Armenians in Anatolia were forcibly expelled from their homes with the loss of hundreds of thousands of Greek lives and millions of Armenian lives. The ancestors of these peoples had lived in these lands for millenia, long before the Turks appeared.
    Long before the invasion of Cyprus, the Turkish Government had been driving out Greeks from Imbros and Tenedos, contrary to the Treaty of Lausanne. Where once they were an overwhelming majority in those islands, now Greeks are a tiny aged minority who will soon disappear. Even signing a Treaty didn’t stop the Turkish Government ethnically cleansing these people.

    • Agree: Robjil
    • Replies: @Meena
    , @Blade
  141. Jazman says:
    @FB

    Turks only have twitter victories . The best thing is some so called experts calling end of tank era lol . This toys have no chance vs real AD

  142. Tim too says:
    @Blade

    Pantsir can take care of slow uavs, easy.

    “They absolutely decimated Russian ADFs in both Syria and Libya.” False.

  143. Tom Welsh says:
    @Alfred

    This is what Wikipedia has to say about the Ottoman Empire in 1900 (admittedly 120 years ago).

    • Replies: @Alfred
  144. @Blade

    This is a gangster talk: “Give me your house and go live to your relatives, and I promise
    not to bug you anymore”. And the fact that we live in a gangster world doesn’t make
    your advice to look any better. But if you think it’s quite normal, let your people on
    Cyprus follow it first.

    • Replies: @Blade
  145. Meena says:
    @Verymuchalive

    Let us know what US would do if Latino starts supporting a Mexican invasion of USA to get the southern states back.

    The hatred against Muslim is still palpable after 19 years . The indispensable country itself still claims it has right kill expel enslave the population of a country if someone from that country says it has pledged allegiance to Al Quaida . Remember , Muslims even don’t hold powers in the coalition made of USA UK France Australia .

    Can you tell us why Azerbaijan will allow the ethnic cleansing of its population from the NK and the surrounding areas

    • Replies: @Verymuchalive
  146. Jazman says:
    @FB

    Nice lesson for nomad Turk goatfuckers

    • Thanks: FB
  147. Tim too says:
    @FB

    “Bottom line is that UAVs are not any kind of game changer…”

    what I was getting at is that the pilot is the limitation in performance for high speed aircraft, as the pilot cannot take the g-forces that the aircraft can, and so something like the uav Su57 will be able to out perform a manned aircraft. I’m glad to read your posts.

  148. @Meena

    The reason that Azerbaijan wants Artsakh back is to ethnically cleanse the majority Armenian population of said republic, as it removed the large Armenian population of Baku after the collapse of the Soviet Union. The reason is obvious, except to a Troll Like you.

    • Agree: Robjil
    • Replies: @Meena
  149. Anonius says:

    “Saker”‘s writings, whether he is fully aware of this or not, invariably start from one single premise, a given “axiom” if you will: that “Putin is always right” in whatever he may or may not do, say, think, dream. And any conclusions made must naturally follow from that axiom as corollaries.

    Of course, with such an approach, any discrepancies between these corollaries and facts must then be painstakingly explained away with elaborate constructions that mitigate (the obviousness of) the discrepancies. This process being dutifully repeated each time the reality appears to contradict the above axiom. (A golden mine for interminable writing, incidentally.)

    To the faithful, this all might even evoke memory of Spinoza’s argument for the existence of God in his “Ethics”, that (far less than) perfect marriage of formal logic and religion.

    A more pertinent analogy here is the fate of the old geocentric model of the Universe. At each of its stages, that already over-complicated model could not account for the ever newly observed details of planetary motions – and so the model had to be “cleverly” “amended” by inserting new smaller “epicycles” within the older ones. And so it went on and on. The unwieldy monstrosity just kept growing – until the early XVI century, when Nicolaus Copernicus killed it with a stroke of a pen, with elegant simplicity.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deferent_and_epicycle
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolaus_Copernicus

  150. Meena says:
    @Verymuchalive

    Chronic victimhood is what left of the Armenian side .

    • Replies: @RT
  151. Blade says:
    @FB

    Ted Postol collaborated

    Loooool assclown. An MIT professor has nothing better to do than collaborating with a guy named Golf Juliett :D. Is that even a real name? “Thedore Postol sent me these graphs” assuming you are telling the truth, doesn’t sound like he “collaborated” to me. Don’t mislead people, assclown.

    I’ve been an aerospace engineer for over 30 years

    Clearly, your ideas are very outdated and mind not agile since you clearly show that you don’t understand what’s being told.

    which is why the Syrian army cleaned up Idlib and took half of the headchoippers’ territory there

    Syrian army didn’t clean up anything. They got decimated in a limited Turkish operation, and aren’t able to enter Idlib.

    a lot of photoshopped videos of these little ultralights ‘scoring’ hits on supposed Russian air defense systems

    Videos can’t be Photoshopped dinosaur. Owners of those ADFs confirmed the authenticity of those videos, yet you are yapping here.

    and Serbia, with its antique 1950s vintage Russian air defenses

    Incidentally Serbia just recently declared they are considering purchasing Turkish drones. But what does taking down F117 have to do with the topic anyway?

    Who cares if the engine is a car engine or cessna engine? Their purpose is completely different from fighter jets, the way they are used are also different from a normal air force. But you don’t even understand that, yet keep yapping about how their engine is small and how they don’t have satellites, both of which are false since there isn’t 1 type of Turkish drones but many including ones that are larger than MQ1s and ones with satellite controls.

    Also, this level of bullshittery reminds me of Russian or Chinese propagandists. Given your name sounds like a real made up Chinese style assclown name Mr. “Golf Juliett Oscar” I seriously doubt that you are interested in giving people information, but are just doing propaganda here.

    • Replies: @A.
  152. RT says:
    @Meena

    Ther is a victmhood, but there are victims, too. The victims of Turks over the centuries are innumerable.

  153. Blade says:
    @Robjil

    Neither did you answer anything I said, nor do you mention the erasure of Muslim heritage in both Balkans and NK. You would think there would be thousands of mosques and structures left in those areas after 5-6-7 centuries of Turkish rule, wouldn’t you?

    • Replies: @Robjil
  154. vot tak says:
    @vot tak

    “The portrayal of Iran-turk relations is also similarly inaccurate. I’ll start with these:”

    This should have been the 3rd paragraph in my above comment, introducing the linked article on Iranian-turk relations. Don’t know how it got way down towards the bottom of the comment.

    Here are several articles useful describing Iranian relations with Armenia and Azerbaijan:

    Growing support for Azerbaijan in Iran

    “Tehran walks on a tight rope, undecided whether to bow to public opinion or back traditional ally Armenia”

    https://www.aa.com.tr/en/azerbaijan-front-line/growing-support-for-azerbaijan-in-iran/1997543

    Iran and Azerbaijan strengthen ties for first time in more than 40 years

    “In 2019 Iran is engaged in an effort to strengthen ties with a country it has often been at odds with – and Azerbaijan is in need to allies in its dispute with Armenia.”

    https://www.trtworld.com/opinion/iran-and-azerbaijan-strengthen-ties-for-first-time-in-more-than-40-years-23530

    Iran’s delicate balancing act in the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict

    “Iran shares borders with Armenia and Azerbaijan, and is home to communities with origins in both countries.”

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/10/5/iran-nk

    Reading those three articles should provide one with a more in-depth understanding where Iran sits with regard to Azerbaijan and Armenia and their conflicting interests in NK. As one can see, the situation is a lot more complicated than saker claims and it involves israeli influence in both those countries. The current leader of Armenia has opened an embassy in tel aviv and strengthened ties with israel. This has cooled Iranian-Armenian relations somewhat. BTW, while Iran was more friendly towards Armenia, they always recognized NK as part of Azerbaijan, not part of Armenia.

    Now I believe Iranian policy towards the two countries is more neutral. Russia I think also is remaining neutral.

    Looking at this renewed conflict from what I’ve read about the interests of the countries involved, I don’t see any of them wanting to bring on a new war.

    Turkey is already stretched thin, fighting in Syria and Libya, heavily engaged with israel, greece and cyprus over east Med. energy and israel’s american and eu toadies are jumping on their back, as well. Starting a new conflict in NK with so much else on their plate right now doesn’t seem very wise.

    Azerbaijan has a lot of economic projects going with both Russia and Iran which a war over NK would seriously interfere with. Not to mention the chaos such a war would bring to the whole region.

    With the recent color rev in Armenia, I’m less sure about whether they would want to avoid conflict. I’m guessing there is a lot of conflicting interests there now, pulling the country in different directions and the government is split. A bit of irony is while the current Armenian leader seems beholded to israel (the new embassy there), this new conlict has soured Armenian-israeli relations over israel’s supply of arms to Azerbaijan. The leader of NK is even more ticked off at israel. See these 2 articles:

    Fresh artillery attacks & exchange of accusations overshadow ceasefire implementation in Nagorno-Karabakh

    https://www.rt.com/russia/503173-armenia-azerbaijan-shaky-ceasefire/

    Karabakh Republic Head Accuses Israel of ‘Genocide’ as Armenian Army Claims Aid Flights Deliver UAVs

    https://sputniknews.com/world/202010111080739444-karabakh-republic-head-accuses-israel-genocide-as-armenian-army-claims-aid-flights-delivering-uavs

    The only entities that seem to have any real interest in seeing this conflict expand into a war are israel, its colonies and perhaps some elements in Azerbaijan, Armenia and NK acting independent of their own countries. I’m guessing at least some of the latter probably exist and could initiate a conflict through use of provocations. I’m still waiting to find out what and who started this new round of fighting.

  155. Blade says:
    @Verymuchalive

    In 20th century, over about 9 centuries after Turkish rule started, they had to leave Anatolia after collaborating with invaders, expelling Turks from Greece proper, massacres of Turks and burning of Turkish cities. Exactly how long did Greeks tolerate Turks after they declared their independence by the way, if you know perchance? Also noted diversion tactics, rather than responding the subject topic, that is ethnic cleansing of Turks in Cyprus you bring in Anatolia card. I guess even you are aware of how despicable the actions of Greeks in Cyprus were.

    • Replies: @Verymuchalive
  156. Robjil says:
    @Blade

    5-6-7 centuries is recent history compared to thousand or thousand more years of history.

    Turkey has 300000 sq. miles to keep only its Turkish history and Azeri have 30000 sq. miles.

    Armenia has only 11000 sq. miles to care for its history. NK is only 1700 sq. miles.

    The Balkans have plenty of Islamic cultures left -the Bosnian and Albanian being the largest.

    Here is an example of how the primitive rulers of Turkey deal with the history of the peoples of Asia Minor.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/religion/on-eve-of-anniversary-turkeys-cultural-genocide-of-armenian-history-is-ongoing/2015/04/23/d6e81f20-e9d1-11e4-8581-633c536add4b_story.html

    YUKARI BAKRACLI, Turkey — This tiny Kurdish village outside the city of Van in Turkey’s southeast is home to the ruins of a once-famous 11th-century Armenian Christian monastery.

    Known to Armenians as Varagavank, it thrived as a place of worship until Turkish forces looted it and murdered parishioners in the mass killing sprees of 1915.

    Today, the roof is collapsing. Toppled stone columns lie nearby. And with no signage, there is no acknowledgment it was once a celebrated church for Armenians.

    Varagavank is one of hundreds of disappearing physical reminders of a community whose history in present-day Turkey goes back more than 2,000 years. Over the past century, the Turkish government, in writing its own narrative of what Armenians call genocide, has destroyed many Armenian churches, homes, schools and cemeteries or allowed them to fall into ruins. They are sites other countries might consider valuable antiquities.

    • Replies: @Blade
  157. Blade says:
    @AB_Anonymous

    No. First of all, I don’t care that much about NK. It is between Azerbaijan and Armenia, however, as long as the issue persists Turkey will not open the border. Simply put, Azerbaijan is much more important for Turkey than Armenia. Besides UN recognizes that Armenia is invaders there and even Russia won’t involve directly in NK because they know Azeris are right. It is not like Turkey gains something if Armenia leaves NK, ending their isolation would be objectively more valuable for Armenia than keeping an enclave in NK. The gangsters here are the ones who scare Armenians with Turkey, and keep them in miserable conditions for their own strategic goals.

  158. A. says:
    @Blade

    @ Blade

    BTW, “Golf Juliett Oscar” was not a name (!), but simply a long for letters G-J-O in the common parlance of air pilots. (Look at the heading of the website FB provided.)

    • LOL: FB
    • Replies: @FB
  159. Blade says:
    @Robjil

    5-6-7 centuries is recent history compared to thousand or thousand more years of history.

    So what is the time limit for you to consider destruction of something as hatred of history and destruction of humanity’s heritage? It doesn’t qualify if it is 500 years old but it qualifies if it is 1000 years old? 😀

    The Balkans have plenty of Islamic cultures left -the Bosnian and Albanian being the largest.

    They are both majority Muslim nations. Who would have thought that they wouldn’t destroy Ottoman remnants?

    Here is an example of how the primitive rulers of Turkey deal with the history of the peoples of Asia Minor.

    As usual, a trash report by a Greek, how surprising. Such a little pathetic nation whose sole purpose of existence is defaming the Turks. 🙂 They should first explain where have the dozens of mosques and synagogues in Thessaloniki gone instead of worrying about Eastern Turkey. At least Turks leaves most churches alone against time (and others museums), not actively razing them, like Greeks did with Turkish mosques, Jewish cemeteries and synagogues.

    • Replies: @Robjil
  160. LG says:

    For a more serious analysis that is critical but sober check out this blog instead. The Saker actually used to read and comment there. He even copied a few things from the author of the blog, but did not give credit.

    http://theriseofrussia.blogspot.com/2020/10/special-addition-second-battle-for.html

  161. LG says:
    @Felix Keverich

    Maybe if Russia understood how soft power works, took it seriously, and spent more money on it, they wouldn’t have messed up with Ukraine and now potentially Belarus. Two states that should be firmly in the Russian camp.
    Pashinyan is not a ideal candidate but the previous administration of Sargysan overstayed their tenure and people finally had enough.

  162. FB says: • Website
    @A.

    😂 …yeah the Turkish goatclown is clearly a real aviation ‘expert’…😂 as in…

    Alpha Sierra Sierra Hotel Alpha Tango

    😂 😂 😂

  163. @Blade

    Summarizing your comment one can conclude that it’s OK to kill people en masse and
    grab their land, as long as such activities are accompanied with something like: “It’s for
    your own good – we are just helping you”. Amazing! To the point of no need for any
    further discussion, including that regarding the similar issue on Cyprus.
    I already know that you either don’t care or will applaud to removal of your people
    from there (no matter in what form), because it’s for their own good.

    • Agree: Robjil
  164. Yevardian says:
    @vot tak

    Rather ironic from you considering Azerbaijan is receiving considerable support from Israel, but again, arguing with idiots is a waste of time.

  165. Yevardian says:
    @Blade

    Besides UN recognizes that Armenia is invaders there and even Russia won’t involve directly in NK because they know Azeris are right.

    Fuck off, there are mentions of Artsakh as core-Armenia in historical records going back to the Roman and Parthian Empires. Besides, if the Azeris didn’t act like animals there and in Baku, there wouldn’t have been any impetus for the Karabakh-movement (under the USSR it underwent typical Turkish creeping ethnic cleansing, as happened in Cyprus for decades prior to the 1974 invasion), the region self-declared as Armenian in 1988, before the breakup of the USSR, which was the main impetus for Armenian independence in the first place.

    • Agree: Robjil, Derer
  166. Robjil says:
    @Blade

    Whatever happened in Thessaloniki can not compare to what happened in Smyrna.
    http://www.ihgjlm.com/the-whispering-voices-of-smyrna-the-destruction-and-genocide-of-a-christian-city/

    Smyrna, one of the wealthiest cities and the most advanced civilizations in the Middle East (present-day Turkey) with a unique mixture of many nationalities-Greek, Armenian, Jewish, Turkish, European, and American-perished into ashes in September 1922. The Smyrniots (inhabitants of Smyrna) became victims through the orders of Mustafa Atatürk, who was responsible for one of the largest purges of humanity known to man. This eradication led to the loss of 3.5 million Greek and Armenian Orthodox Christians who had occupied Asia Minor since the time of Alexander the Great. In September 1922, Atatürk led his troops into Smyrna (now Izmir), a predominantly Greek Christian City that was known as the City of Infidels to the Turks. The Turks then proceeded to indulge in an orgy of pillage, rape, and slaughter. This City of Infidels was cleansed and destroyed and with it the last hub of Christians in Turkey.

    • Replies: @Blade
    , @Verymuchalive
  167. Avery says:

    An interesting take by TheSaker on the criminal war launched by Turkbaijan against Artsakh/NK. TheSaker makes several valid points. However, in many cases, he contradicts himself with utter absurdities.

    1. {1988-1994 war. }
    The war actually started in Sept 1991, when USSR dissolved, Azerbaijan SSR declared independence, NK declared independence, and Turkbaijan military invaded NK with full force. Between 1988 and 1991 there were some military clashes between irregular forces, and the infamous massacres of (Soviet) Armenian civilians living in Azerbaijan SSR: Sumgait 1988, Kirovabad 1988, and Baku 1990.

    2. {I should mention here that in terms of international law, NK is an integral part of Azerbaijan}

    And that means what? Crimea is supposedly part of Ukraine under international law: you, TheSaker, don’t believe that for a Moscow minute, do you? The fake creation Kosovo, run by criminal gangs, is internationally recognized by the West: does that mean Serbia’s historic heartland cut out of her by the NATO criminals has any legitimacy? International recognition means that at this time they have to make that noise for various reasons: nothing more. If Artsakh and Armenia can keep historic Armenian lands free from nomad Turk invaders, that’s all the “recognition” and “law” they need. And what does recognition mean anyway: that the nomad savages will not invade if they could? Cyprus, is a member of EU, and, ahem, “Internationally Recognized”. How did that prevent the nomad Turk savages from East and Central Asia from invading and occupying 40% of it 40 years on? It didn’t.

    3. {Turkish attack drones have been used with formidable effectiveness against NK forces,}

    You have no way of knowing that. What are your sources? Turkbaijan propaganda ministry? The only way to know how supposedly devastating, is to have a source inside Artraskh/NK or Republic of Armenia (RoA) military. I highly doubt you do.

    As to the supposed effectiveness of Turkish drones( e.g. in Syria). This was analyzed and the conclusion was that Syrians did suffer some casualties, but learned quickly to counter the Turk drones. Their effectiveness was mainly due to the initial shock effect of something unknown to Syrians. (from dronewars.net 2020/06/15)To quote: {“Unlike their Turkish counterparts, Western observers have since voiced reservations about the armed drones on display in Spring Shield. Firstly, while acknowledging the tactical efficiency of the TB2 and Anka-S, critics argue that the element of surprise largely helped Turkey gain an advantage over the Syrian Arab Army. Once the SAA acclimatised to what was happening in the air, their defence systems were able to inflict several drone casualties upon the Turkish military. Questions have also been asked about the reach, vulnerability, and lethality of Turkey’s unmanned fleet.”}

    4. {Furthermore, Azerbaijan has been a much better partner to Russia than Armenia….}
    But {……but Azerbaijan has also joined the openly anti-Russian GUAM Organization}.

    How does that make any sense? How is Azerbaijan a supposed better partner? It is absurd. Azerbaijan will kick Russians out – like they did from the Gabala radar site – as soon as they don’t need Russia to pressure/force RoA/Artsakh to agree to a ceasefire: like Moscow did in 1994, in 2016, and now in 2020. Or to pressure RoA/Artsakh to do something to benefit Turkbaijan.

    5. Serbs, Russians, Armenians

    So Serbs are great people (I agree), but their leadership is bad. Yet Armenian people are supposedly {…. Uncle Shmuels’s bitch,}, because? Did Serbs elect their leaders or didn’t they? So Armenian people bad because they elected a demagogue, but Serbs good because they elected leaders who are actively working with NATO, with the unstated goal of becoming a NATO member. How is that not {…. Uncle Shmuels’s bitch,} ?

    6. Azeri, Azerbaijan and all the fake names.

    There is no such ethnos as ‘Azeri’. The bogus name was created by Stalin around 1936/1937 or so. Before then, the nomad Turk invaders of the area now called Azerbaijan (also Stalin’s idea) were simply called ‘Turks’, or ‘Tatars’*, or Muslims. The indigenous peoples of that fake country are Talysh, Lezgins, Avars, Tats,…..Iranian stock people subjugated and oppressed by Turk invaders.

    7. {….Russia has really zero need for Armenia}

    Then why is Russia maintaining a base with 5,000 RF troops in Armenia, with its own fighter wing, integrated air-defense with RoA’s air-defense, etc, etc. And if Russia doesn’t need Armenia, then why {Second, it is crucial for Russia to prove that the CSTO matters and is effective in protecting CSTO member states. In other words, if Russia lets Turkey attack Armenia directly the CSTO would lose all credibility, something which Russia cannot allow.} ?

    8. {It would even be possible to have a Turkish military presence all around the NK (and even some monitors inside!) to reassure the Azeris that Armenian forces have left the region and are staying out}

    Saker, this sentence clearly shows you have no idea what this is about. Do you really think Armenians would agree to have Turk troops stationed around/in Artsakh? And do you really think Russia would allow NATO Turk troops right on their Southern border. Maybe you forgot, but I am sure Kremlin remembers how Turks were actively involved in Chechnya (by proxy).
    Armenians lost ~6,000 KIA during the bloody war of 1991-1994 (…while destroying about 30K-35K invaders: Turkbaijanis, Muj from Afghanistan, other Islamist terrorists from all over). Do you really think after liberating their historic homeland from Turk squatters, they would just invite genocidal Turks in, so they could finish them off?

    In this war (2020), to date Armenians have suffered about 450 KIA: tragic loss of valuable men. Estimated enemy KIA are ~4,000-5,000: not nearly enough. This is not a simple “territorial dispute”: nomad Turks’ centuries old dream has been to wipe out ALL Armenians from their historic homelands, to complete their dream of an unbroken pan-Turanic chain from Bosphorus to Uguristan (their homeland), and then….work on Russia’s Southern regions.

    _____________________________
    * this was an unfortunate conflation of names: Tatars are very different from Turks.

  168. Avery says:
    @Blade

    {…however, as long as the issue persists Turkey will not open the border.}

    Good: Armenia learned very quickly to cope with it. Her economy is doing fine. Better to have a closed border with Turks. Keep cheap Turkish trash out of Armenia. Keep Turks out of Armenia.

    { Simply put, Azerbaijan is much more important for Turkey than Armenia}

    Simply put, Turkbaijan is part of the centuries old Turk dream of an unbroken pan-Turanic chain. Osmanli (Sunni) Turks (of Asia Minor) actually have nothing but contempt for the Caspian (Shia) Turks.

    {Besides UN recognizes that Armenia is invaders there }

    Nope: show us the UN document that mentions Republic of Armenia as supposed invaders.
    The 1993 UNSC refers to Armenians of Artsakh/NK. In any case the UNSC document of 1993 was rendered null and void when Heydar Aliyev agreed to a ceasefire in May 1994, signed between Azerbaijan and the leadership of Nagorno-Karabagh. By signing that document Azerbaijan de-facto recognized NKR/Artsakh, and agreed to peacefully negotiate. The Turks, being Turks, have been violating the 1994 ceasefire agreement ever since Moscow saved them from complete dissolution in 1994

    {and even Russia won’t involve directly in NK because they know Azeris are right. }

    Russia knows Armenians are right. Russia does not need to get directly involved in Artsakh. Russia does whatever it needs to do thru Armenia.

    {It is not like Turkey gains something if Armenia leaves NK, ending their isolation would be objectively more valuable for Armenia than keeping an enclave in NK. }

    You are either delusional or think Armenians are stupid. Armenians don’t suffer from historical amnesia like Turks. Armenians remember vividly the Genocides of Armenians, Assyrians, and Pontic Greeks at the hands of nomad Turk invaders in 1915-1923. And we also remember the Hamidian Massacres of ~300,000 Armenian civilians 1894-1896, and we also remember the Adana Massacres of ~30,000 Armenians in 1909 at the hands of Turks,…..and on and on over centuries.

    Armenia is doing quite fine, despite the blockade by Turkey and Turkbaijan.
    Armenia’ monthly income is actually higher than that of Azerbaijan’s.
    Armenia has many problems, but the so-called “isolation” is not one of them.

  169. Smith says:
    @Mary Marianne

    That’s old news, fren.

    Turkey has cozied up China as of late:
    https://ahvalnews.com/uighurs/uighurs-accuse-turkey-betrayal-seek-new-friends
    https://news.yahoo.com/turkey-begins-phase-iii-trials-105020091.html
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-aiib-turkey-idUSKBN25R0FF

    The uighurs, like the palestinians, are basically political talking points, realistically only Iran cares about them (the palestinians). Turks, Erdogan specifically, mentions their flights all the times, but he still buys Israel’s weapons.

    On geopolitical side, the Silk Road is primarily made up by Turkey – Pakistan – China so it makes sense for them to buddy up, this is how China gets to Europe while bypassing Russia. Unlike Russia though, Turkey meanwhile doesn’t come into China’s sphere of dominance (outside of Xinjiang), but it can be used by China to counter Russia, just like how China uses Pakistan against India and Cambodia against Vietnam.

    People just assume that Russia is the militant arm of le Resistance while China is the economic arm, but reality is China might have even surpassed Russia in terms of military. There can be no two tigers in the same mountain, so Russia, India, Japan and Vietnam will all have to come down if China is to rise in Asia. There is no friends in politics, you keep your enemies close and your friends even closer.

    Of course, this can be my own “China is behind everything!” acting up, I have my own bias, but again, the Silk Road is a real thing.

    • Troll: Derer
    • Replies: @Derer
  170. @Blade

    In 20th century, over about 9 centuries after Turkish rule started, they had to leave Anatolia after collaborating with invaders
    The expulsion of Armenians and Greeks was the policy of the Young Turks well before WWI. Pogroms of Armenians and other Christians by the Ottomans occurred throughout the C19th and before.

    expelling Turks from Greece proper
    This is untrue. The Population Exchange Agreement of the Treaty of Lausanne resulted in 400,000 Turks and other Muslims leaving Greece for Turkey. In return, the Greeks agreed to accept 1.3 million Asiatic Greeks.

    Exactly how long did Greeks tolerate Turks after they declared their independence by the way, if you know perchance?
    The Greeks tolerated 400,000 of them up to 1922. And they still tolerate many today.Those in Thrace were not subject to the Treaty of Lausanne.

    The approximate area of Western Thrace is 8,578 km² with a population of 371,208 according to the 2011 census.[1] It’s estimated that two-thirds (67%) of the population are Orthodox Christian Greeks, while 30% (120,000) are Muslims who are an officially recognised minority of Greece. Of these, about half are of Turkish origin, while another third are Pomaks who mainly inhabit the mountainous parts of the region.

    This is completely unlike Turkey. 200, 000 Greeks were permitted to remain in Turkey after the Treaty of Lausanne. Government sponsored pogroms in the 1950s caused this to collapse.

    After years of persecution (e.g. the Varlık Vergisi and the Istanbul Pogrom), emigration of ethnic Greeks from the Istanbul region greatly accelerated, reducing the Greek minority population from 119,822 before the attack[7] to about 7,000 by 1978

    The population of Greek ethnics in Turkey is now less than 3,000.

    that is ethnic cleansing of Turks in Cyprus
    There has been no ethnic cleansing of Turkish Cypriots. Before 1974, they constituted 20% of the population of Cyprus. In 1974, Turkey invaded Cyprus and grabbed 36% of the land area, including most of the best agricultural land. They are still in occupation. The Turks have even brought in more people from mainland Turkey as settlers. All Greek Cypriots have been expelled from the occupied territories.

    • Thanks: Robjil
    • Replies: @Blade
  171. Blade says:
    @Robjil

    Lie after lie. Why would Turks burn their own city after liberating it? All witnesses say that it was escaping Greek and Armenian gangs who burnt their own neighborhoods, because guess what, they didn’t want to leave anything to Turks (and had no hope of returning already, they lost a war). As it was reported by the fire fight chief of Izmir, who was an Austrian. Incidentally Jewish neighborhoods were fine and intact, I wonder why?

  172. Blade says:
    @Verymuchalive

    The expulsion of Armenians and Greeks was the policy of the Young Turks well before WWI.

    Well before WW1? They became the government just a few years before WW1 lol.

    Pogroms of Armenians and other Christians by the Ottomans occurred throughout the C19th and before.

    Won’t get into details, 19th century is still 750-800 years after Turkish rule started.

    This is untrue. The Population Exchange Agreement of the Treaty of Lausanne resulted in 400,000 Turks and other Muslims leaving Greece for Turkey. In return, the Greeks agreed to accept 1.3 million Asiatic Greeks.

    I didn’t ask about Lausanne. Those Turks you mention were from Western Thrace and Thessaloniki, which was lost just a decade ago. I am asking about Peloponnese, where Turks mysteriously vaporized. Just in Tripolitsa 30K were killed, it is in the memoirs of Greek “hero” Kolokotronis where he brags about massacring all Turks (including kids and women) in towns they took over.

    The Greeks tolerated 400,000 of them up to 1922.

    Thanks for not massacring all Turks within 10 years of rule. But again I wasn’t asking about Western Thrace, where Turks were near majority at the time.

    200,000 Greeks were permitted to remain in Turkey after the Treaty of Lausanne. Government sponsored pogroms in the 1950s caused this to collapse.

    You see, after 800 years of tolerance, and in fact privilege, Greeks really had a bad record. In the first opportunity they got in a millennia they tried to eradicate Turks, they brought their misery on themselves. Don’t blame Turks for it. If Turks were like Greeks there wouldn’t be any trace of Greeks after 800 years of Turkish rule.

    The population of Greek ethnics in Turkey is now less than 3,000.

    Don’t blame Turks for that. No one told them to side with an invading army and start killing their neighbors, after centuries of privilege.

    There has been no ethnic cleansing of Turkish Cypriots. Before 1974, they constituted 20% of the population of Cyprus.

    Yes there has. I am not going to waste my time finding resources. It is all out there if you were actually interested in looking it up. EOKA, Nikos Sampson, Greek Junta it is all recorded, facts. The fact that you say 20% of population was Turks is enough to prove that Turks wouldn’t be the ones to instigate violence when they were outnumbered 4 to 1. Sampson himself said Turks would be wiped off, it is a fact.

  173. Like many fanatics, you display invincible ignorance even when confronted with the facts.

    (1) The Young Turks had been in power since 1908, well before WWI
    (2) The pogroms against Armenians and other Christians had been enforced in the C19th and before – indeed many centuries before.
    (3) The 400,000 Turks and other Muslims who left after Lausanne were from all parts of Greece apart from Western Thrace. Many had been under Greek rule for many decades, not 10 years as you state.
    (4) Almost from the beginning, The Turkish State reneged on the Treaty of Lausanne. The 200,000 Greeks permitted to remain in Constantinople, Imbros and Tenedos have been removed by a mixture of systemic discrimination, a Fortune Tax enforced on non-Muslims, Government-sponsored pogroms and settlement of Turks in Greek-majority islands. Less than 3,000 remain.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greeks_in_Turkey

    (5) By contrast the remaining Muslims in Greece are a protected minority and probably constitute 150,000 people – considerably more than in 1923.
    (6) The Turkish Cypriot population ( 20% of population) has not been ethnically cleansed from the island. They are now nearly all in the Turkish-occupied zone ( 36% of the island and most of the best farming land ). The previous Greek Cypriot inhabitants have either fled or been forcibly expelled from the zone.

    • Thanks: Robjil
    • Replies: @Blade
    , @barr
  174. A. says:
    @vot tak

    “vot tak”,

    despite the literacy & depth on clear display in your writings, some even might (though for no longer than a fleeting moment) wonder: what is your age, and what might your educational background be?

    • Troll: vot tak
  175. A. says:
    @vot tak

    While your obvious namesake @TheIdiot still could claim to have brought internet discussions closer to the truth, you yourself could rightfully lay claim to bringing these to a truly subterranean level, no small feat even for a faithful Putinist.

    • Troll: vot tak
  176. Alfred says:
    @Tom Welsh

    This is what Wikipedia has to say about the Ottoman Empire in 1900 (admittedly 120 years ago).

    You mean the Jewpedia?

    Do you think they don’t have an agenda.

    When my father was a kid – circa 1927 – the joke in Cairo was that the Turkish beggars in the street would beg for half a piaster and say “but I am your master” sotto voce.

  177. @Derer

    I’m sure 1000 little kikes had so many arms and such omnipotency that they were constantly able to bend space and time and put a gun to each slaveshit head and forced them to kill each other in the name of communism.

  178. @Robjil

    Between 1914 and 1923, nearly all the Christian population of Anatolia were forcibly expelled by the Turks with great loss of life. That amounted to 25% of the population of pre-War Anatolia. These changes were recognised by the Treaty of Lausanne ( 1923 ). Yet modern day Turks still moan about the Treaty as being unfair to Turkey,

    The loss of Greek Ionia was a grievous loss. It had been inhabited by Greeks for millenia and had been one of the cradles of Greek Civilisation.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_fire_of_Smyrna
    Please note.
    The subsequent fire completely destroyed the Greek and Armenian quarters of the city; the Muslim and Jewish quarters escaped damage.[15]

    The important Jewish contribution to funding The Young Turks is well-Known. People like Emmanuel Carasso.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmanuel_Carasso
    They were very keen for Turks to eliminate Armenians and Greeks whom they regarded as commercial rivals.

    Fast Forward to 2020. One of Azerbaijan’s main arms suppliers is Israel. Plus ca change.

    • Thanks: Robjil
  179. Anonymous[236] • Disclaimer says:
    @Arnieus

    It’s true that there would be no Syria now if not for Russian actions. But the main point is, there will be no Syria in the future because of Russian inaction.

  180. Derer says:
    @Blade

    I respect your misplaced priorities, however it is Europe flooding Islam culture that is raping European women.

  181. Blade says:
    @Verymuchalive

    Like many fanatics, you display invincible ignorance even when confronted with the facts.

    Is that so? So far, I have been the one giving fact after fact, most of time referring to your OWN political leaders’ statements. But that aside, being ignorant is always preferable to being an idiot who is unable to comprehend what is being told. One can be cured, the other not.

    The Young Turks had been in power since 1908, well before WWI

    The Young Turks was in parliament, along with Armenian parties from 1908. They haven’t been in power from 1908, only after the coup few years later they had absolute power. However, even if you were right, that would be just 6 years before 1914. That is NOT ‘well before’ WW1.

    The pogroms against Armenians and other Christians had been enforced in the C19th and before – indeed many centuries before.

    That’s a plain and simple lie there. If there were pogroms for 800 years there would be no Armenians or Greeks left today. Since you made a claim you should be able to back it with many proofs. Go ahead, show me pogroms from 14th, 15th, 17th or even 18th centuries. Up until 19th century rebellions, there was none of it ignorant boy.

    The 400,000 Turks and other Muslims who left after Lausanne were from all parts of Greece apart from Western Thrace. Many had been under Greek rule for many decades, not 10 years as you state.

    Nope. I gave you solid examples with names and locations. Explain what happened in Tripolitsa and excuse the words of Kolokotronis. Turks were wiped out of Peloponnese by the time of Greek independence. Thessaloniki and major areas around it very heavily Turkish populated, they were lost in Balkans wars, just before WW1.

    Almost from the beginning, The Turkish State reneged on the Treaty of Lausanne. The 200,000 Greeks permitted to remain in Constantinople, Imbros and Tenedos have been removed by a mixture of systemic discrimination, a Fortune Tax enforced on non-Muslims, Government-sponsored pogroms and settlement of Turks in Greek-majority islands. Less than 3,000 remain.

    I fully agree with this treatment, and don’t feel one bit guilt. After everything they had done, siding with an invading foreign power despite their privileged status, and burning of Western Anatolia and massacres done by Greeks just kicking them out was actually rather soft treatment. If we were Europeans, you know they’d all cease to exist. They had status as a result of their centuries of privilege during the Ottoman rule, and Turkey simply took those privileges away.

    By contrast the remaining Muslims in Greece are a protected minority and probably constitute 150,000 people – considerably more than in 1923.

    But you cannot even call them Turks, rather Muslims. They are not allowed to self determine what to call themselves, their leaders being assassinated (Dr. Sadik Ahmet), organizations carrying name “Turkish” being banned, not being allowed to select their religious leaders, and other pressures. Unlike Greeks were in Istanbul, Turks in Western Thrace are a disenfranchised population, and that’s the only reason they are ‘tolerated’ with all pressures above.

    The Turkish Cypriot population ( 20% of population) has not been ethnically cleansed from the island. They are now nearly all in the Turkish-occupied zone ( 36% of the island and most of the best farming land ). The previous Greek Cypriot inhabitants have either fled or been forcibly expelled from the zone.

    Yes. They haven’t been ethnically cleansed, because of Turkish operation. I never said they were completely ethnically cleansed, but there was an ongoing campaign and by the time of Turkish invasion Turks were already mostly concentrated in the North due to violent EOKA terrorism. As far as I can see you could not deny Sampson’s statements and plans of Greek Junta. Or actually, any point I raised thus far. Rather you are playing around words, or nitpicking minor details to distract from the main points. That’s rather dishonest, but hey, if you are Greek I totally understand that.

    • Replies: @Verymuchalive
  182. Derer says:
    @Blade

    Russian influence will continue fading while Turkish influence will keep increasing in Caucasus.

    An illiterate nonsense of a fanatical camel shepherd.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  183. Derer says:
    @Smith

    China might have even surpassed Russia in terms of military.

    A post from mental institution.

  184. Anonymous[145] • Disclaimer says:
    @Derer

    He may be a partisan Muslim, but he’s correct on this point about the Russians. Unless you think it’s part of grand Russian strategy to allow all of its border areas to fall into US-Israeli sponsored chaos?

  185. @Blade

    I have produced numerous references for my views. You have produced none. this is because you have nothing to back up your ridiculous claims.

    That’s a plain and simple lie there. If there were pogroms for 800 years there would be no Armenians or Greeks left today. Since you made a claim you should be able to back it with many proofs.

    There have been massacres, pogroms, forced conversions and rapes of Greek and Armenians right from the start of the Turkish intrusion into Anatolia. As a result there are less than 3,000 Greeks left in Anatolia. As for Armenians:
    Armenians in Turkey (Turkish: Türkiye Ermenileri; Armenian: Թուրքահայեր, also Թրքահայեր, “Turkish Armenians”), one of the indigenous peoples of Turkey, have an estimated population of 50,000 to 70,000,[4][5]

    Almost from the beginning, The Turkish State reneged on the Treaty of Lausanne. The 200,000 Greeks permitted to remain in Constantinople, Imbros and Tenedos have been removed by a mixture of systemic discrimination, a Fortune Tax enforced on non-Muslims, Government-sponsored pogroms and settlement of Turks in Greek-majority islands. Less than 3,000 remain.

    I fully agree with this treatment, and don’t feel one bit guilt

    You really are a hypocritical piece of work. It’s Ok for Turkey to renege on a Treaty, but if it was the other way you’d be howling like a dog.

    Unlike Greeks were in Istanbul, Turks in Western Thrace are a disenfranchised population, and that’s the only reason they are ‘tolerated’ with all pressures above.

    This is completely untrue. Muslims in Thrace have the vote and are a protected minority. Greeks in Constantinople have been driven out by overt and covert Turkish Government policy. They now constitute a tiny aged minority which will soon be ended by the Turkish State. As ever, you do not attempt to refute my point.

    • Thanks: Robjil
  186. @LG

    Maybe if Armenians understood how Russia works, they wouldn’t deprive their country of its sole ally. The people, who “had enough” are the ones suffering now.

  187. TheIdiot says:
    @Fiendly Neighbourhood Terrorist

    Your blog article is spot on.
    https://bill-purkayastha.blogspot.com/2020/10/the-sultan-and-grandmaster-nagorno.html?m=1

    But you leave totally untouched the topic of WHY has Putin been selling off
    (together with his oligarchs that are pulling the ropes he hangs on)
    Ukraine, Syria and now Armenia…

    Perhaps one can look into the estimates of at least $500bln. held by “Team Putin” in western banks?
    And the fact that top 500 families (many in the Team) own 95% of Russia’s wealth?

    …an “Indian” with “Come and See” as his favored movie? 🙂

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  188. Anonymous[161] • Disclaimer says:
    @TheIdiot

    Yes. Essentially Putin did what Stalin did: the Jewish oligarchs were getting too rapacious and ostentatious in their thievery, it threatened to unravel the entire system. So, they got rid of some of them and forced the rest to play nice. But they’re still thieving oligarchs, and Putin/Stalin are just facemen.

  189. Alden says:
    @Anonymous

    The famine was 85 90 years ago. Ukraine agriculture miraculously recovered during the war when Stalin realized he needed Ukrainian products and workers.

    • Replies: @Igivenoshit
  190. Saker started off well, but ended flopping back into his Putin worship. Saker, the US is not lurking under your bed and is not involved in a tithe of what you think it is. There aren’t any Nazis under there either. There are plenty of them in Moscow, particularly the Kremlin.

  191. @Alden

    https://gff1977blog.wordpress.com/2013/09/19/jewish-butcher-of-the-ukraine-stalins-brother-in-lawlazar-kaganovich/

    “Jewish Butcher of the Ukraine

    Lazar Moiseyevich Kaganovich (Kogan), of Jewish descent, was born in Kubany, near Kiev, Ukraine, in 1893. In 1911 he joined the Jewish-founded Communist Party and became involved with the Bolsheviks (Lower East Side New York Jews). Kaganovich took an active part in the 1917 takeover of Christian Russia by Communism and rose rapidly in the Party hierarchy.
    From 1925 to 1928, he was first secretary of the party organization in Ukraine and by 1930 was a full member of the Politburo.

    Kaganovich was one of a small group of Stalin’s top sadists pushing for very high rates of collectivization after 1929. He became Stalin’s butcher of Christian Russians during the late 1920s and early 1930s when the Kremlin (jews) launched its war against the kulaks (small landowners who were Christians) and implemented a ruthless policy of land collectivization. The resulting state-organized forced famine, was a planned genocide and killed 7,000,000 Ukrainians between 1932 and 1933, and inflicted enormous suffering on the Soviet Central Asian republic of Kazakhstan.

    On any analysis, Kaganovich, was one of the worst mass murderers in history, and little wonder that during World War II large numbers of Ukrainians greeted the Germans as liberators, with many joining the Waffen-SS to keep Communism from enslaving all of Europe.”

  192. vot tak says:

    Exclusive: Azerbaijani President Aliyev Says Armenian PM Pashinyan is a Product of George Soros

    https://sputniknews.com/world/202010151080780706-president-aliyev-azerbaijan-will-never-accept-nagorno-karabakhs-independence/

    [MORE]

    “Azerbaijan’s President Ilham Aliyev expressed his belief in an interview with Sputnik that Armenia’s Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan was a product of US billionaire and philanthropist George Soros, known for his generous donations to political causes.

    “The collapse of the Soviet Union indeed started with separatism in Nagorno-Karabakh. That was the trigger. People often forget about those rallies, who organised all this, who was behind it,” Azerbaijani President Ilham Aliyev told Sputnik News Agency Director General Dmitry Kiselev in an exclusive interview.

    “I often say that Pashinyan is a product of Soros, and I believe everyone would agree with that. Soros is not just an individual, he is a concept. I in no way rule out that such instruments were used back then to disintegrate the great nation. Just blow it up from the inside, sow discord, play off the people, and disintegrate the country.”

    I think this is where to look, the israeloamerican installed pashinyan color rev. regime. These color rev. regimes always create trouble once in power, and always in way that benefit the the zionazi-nazi-gay empire.

  193. The only thing that bothers me is the Saker’s comments on fellow Orthodox countries. Romania, Bulgaria and Georgia had a different experience with Russia than Serbia. If Serbia shared a border with Russia, things may have been different. One of the few good things Stalin did was to restore autocephaly to the Georgian Orthodox Church. The Armenians are Monophysites, but that still means that they are Christian. The Christians in Iraq are Monophysite and Nestorian. Should Orthodox condone their slaughter by that extension? Don’t be such a Great Russian nationalist. The main cathedral in Sofia is Saint Alexander Nevsky anyway. The endgame is the liberation of Constantinople. The Orthodox armies will liberate Constantinople. The prophecies are there.

  194. HISTORY OF GEORGIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH FROM WIKIPEDIA:

    In 1801, the Kingdom of Kartl-Kakheti (Eastern Georgia) was occupied and annexed by the Russian Empire. On 18 July 1811, the autocephalous status of the Georgian Church was abolished by the Russian authorities, despite strong opposition in Georgia, and the Georgian Church was subjected to the synodical rule of the Russian Orthodox Church. From 1817, the metropolitan bishop, or exarch, in charge of the Church was an ethnic Russian, with no knowledge of the Georgian language and culture.[37] The Georgian liturgy was suppressed and replaced with Church Slavonic, ancient frescoes were whitewashed from the walls of many churches, and publication of religious literature in Georgian heavily censored. The 19th century was a time of decline and disaffection, as the church buildings often fell into disrepair, and the trust of people in the institution was diminished by its Russification and corruption.[citation needed] Calls for autocephaly became heard again only after the intellectual national revival that started in the 1870s; the local clergy made such calls during the 1905 revolution, before being repressed again.[38]

    Following the overthrow of the Tsar Nicholas II in March 1917, Georgia’s bishops unilaterally restored the autocephaly of the Georgian Orthodox Church on 25 March 1917. These changes were not accepted by the Russian Orthodox Church. After the Red Army invasion of Georgia in 1921, the Georgian Orthodox Church was subjected to intense harassment.[39] Hundreds of churches were closed by the atheist government and hundreds of monks were killed during Joseph Stalin’s purges. The independence of the Georgian Orthodox Church was finally recognized by the Russian Orthodox Church on 31 October 1943: this move was ordered by Stalin as part of the war-time more tolerant policy towards Christianity in the Soviet Union. New anti-religious campaigns took place after the war, especially under Nikita Khrushchev. Corruption and infiltration by the security organs were also plaguing the Church. First signs of revival can be seen from the 1970s, when Eduard Shevardnadze, then secretary of the Georgian SSR’s Communist Party, adopted a more tolerant stance, and new Patriarch Ilia II could from 1977 renovate derelict churches, and even build new ones. At the same time, nationalist dissidents such as Zviad Gamsakhurdia emphasized the Christian nature of their struggle against Communist power, and developed relations with Church officials that would come to fruition after 1989.[40]

  195. Vlad says:

    Yeah Vučić And Serbs is your real friend, who needs enemies whit that cute friends who go to trump and 🙇‍♀️ like school boy, cut the crap …Russia only friend is hers weapons!

  196. Anonymous[193] • Disclaimer says:

    Dear Mr. Saker:

    You are a Russian with all that means.

    You should be aware of the elementary fact that without its only ally (Christian Armenia) in the Caucasus , the region would fall to NATO all the way to the Caspian Sea and beyond.

    The Caspian would become an American lake and NATO would push into Central Asia.

    Russians think that the Armenians should be grateful which they are. But Russia wants a slave.

    As for Azerbaijan, it has 3 major oil and gas pipelines heading west through Georgia and Turkey. Is that what you call a better ally than Armenia? Azerbaijan threw out Russia’s Kabala radar station. Is that a friendly act? Russia has 2 bases and an airport in Armenia.

    Saker does not understand pan-Turkism’s obvious danger to Russia’s southern underbelly.

    Putin has let American-built Turkish F-16s into Turkic Azerbaijan and thousands of jihadis – all to beat up on Armenia, a loyal Russia ally.

    How insane is that? Letting pan-Turkists beat up on your ally?

    Sad, Saker, very, very sad.

  197. I am an Orthodox Christian, not Monophysite like Armenians, but all I can say I is I love Armenians. I cannot describe it. They are gracious gentlemen. I lived in Yerevan for six weeks. I experienced the holiday of Vartevar. I love Armenia. Forgive me Saker. I hope they accept the Five Ecumenical Councils that they missed.

  198. Sean says:

    “To all the Armenian boys out there fighting to not be eradicated, stay strong, your nation is behind you, I’m behind you,” [Dan] Bilzerian wrote. “I’m proud of you guys, keep fighting the good fight. & remember no matter how bad things get at least you aren’t Azerbaijani & you don’t sodomize farm animals.”

  199. I have an Azerbaijani dentist from Baku. He is a very nice man. A question to the Armenians. “Hello Radio Yerevan, would you go to an Azeri dentist in the US?” They also have great music. Alim Qasimov. The Armenian poet Sayat Nova wrote poems in Turkish …

    My favorite Radio Yerevan joke: Radio Yerevan announced that Petrosyan won a million dollars playing the lotto. Someone calls in and says: “I have to correct you. It was not Petrosyan who won the lotto but rather it was Sarkisyan.” I hope no one minds …

  200. Anon[610] • Disclaimer says:

    Tweet

    Jake Tapper

    @jaketapper
    ·
    Oct 15

    Ah yes, when Trump “helped build a hotel in Azerbaijan that appears to be a corrupt operation engineered by oligarchs tied to Iran’s Revolutionary Guard.”

    And today Anne Applebaum on CNN
    about Trump’s business in Azerbaijan
    insinuating the profit seeking mentality driving his behavior to this conflict

    Now why I am thinking of Israel supplying cluster Bonn’s to Azerbaijan and fighter jets
    Now why I am thinking of Jewish Sheldon Adelshon giving millions to Trump ( from 2015) and GOP candidates from 2012 so that USA nukes Iran .

    Now why I am thinking why Jewish member of Trump administration and family members are siphoning money medical gear and sending to Israel , financing settlement , maintaining family ties to settlement , building Trump Tower in occupied territories and protecting Israeli atrocities
    but CNN doesn’t see it mention it talk the anti American activities , illegal activities according to international laws and convoluting Iran’s support to Azerbaijan when Iran actually supports Armenia

  201. anonymous[325] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mikael_

    Russia is the last hope for Christianity to survive in the world!

    Isn’t the Christian Church vitally important to the faith? Hence the following 2 aspects can’t seem to reconcile with your dubious claim.

    https://www.crossway.org/articles/why-the-church-is-vitally-important-for-every-christian/

    https://www.pewforum.org/2014/02/10/russians-return-to-religion-but-not-to-church/

    It also appears that single parent households in Russia is on the rise…

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/4750962_Single_Mothers_in_Russia_Household_Strategies_for_Coping_with_Poverty

    As the saying goes… something is rotten/rotting in the state of Denmark! Russia is not the last hope for Christianity!

    • Replies: @Mikael_
  202. anonymous[325] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    Since we are selecting who should get the “Solomani treatment,” I choose the following;

    1. tRumpelthinskin
    2. Nutenyahoo
    3. Macaroni

  203. vot tak says:

    The “pro-Armenia” propaganda is being laid down rather thick here now. Like it is being orchestrated by someone. Like when israeloamerican interests are at stake. Like when s.w.a.r.m. feels threatened needs to swarm.

    Keep in mind the zionazi-gays are stoking both sides of this conflict, and they are not doing this to benefit Armenia, Azerbaijan or Nagorno-Karabakh.

  204. Anonymous[422] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    Exactly. Russian strategy appears to be cutting off their nose to spite their face. Not particularly clever.

  205. yurivku says:
    @Anonymous

    “How insane is that? Letting pan-Turkists beat up on your ally?”

    Old story – we’ll spit on Russia, but she has to save us when things go bad. Forget it.
    If you want good relationships – begin from yourself.

  206. Anonymous[393] • Disclaimer says:

    Riiight, because allowing your southern border to become destabilized while teaching those uppity Armenians a lesson is just such genius fucking strategy. Got it.

    • Replies: @yurivku
  207. @LG

    Well Russia seems to have done well in keeping the “stans” in it’s sphere – and through the SCO – cooperating with China to keep that region secure. Krygzstan being the latest flare up of attempted regime change. But yes I’ve been trying to understand how Ukraine and Georgia and Estonia and Latvia began to turn to the west. I don’t think Belarus has though… There is definitely a compaign going on there – but I don’t think it will succeed. Hey – even look on the other side of the world. Evo Morales was taken out of power in Bolivia at US request. So what did the people of Bolivia do in the past few days? Vote Morales close ally into power. In the same way I don’t think Russian influence is gone in Belarus.

  208. @Anonymous

    The saker isn’t Russian,he’s from Switzerland,born there!

    Moved to America and never stops yapping about how bad it is

    He should move to Russia if he thinks it’s so good

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  209. anonymous[325] • Disclaimer says:
    @Vojkan

    Yeah, all of that justifies the necrophiliac level psychopathy of the whitevil godless mofers.

    Islam would be much less of a nuisance today.

    Lol! I suppose you think your pedophile priests are not a “nuisance” at all? How about the batshit craziness of all the puke-inducing pagan ideologies of, Trinity, Eucharist, only-begotten-son-of-god, etc.?

    When I see evidence (say in Quora, and even debates between muslim scholars and christian quacks) of how you godless lowlifes twist your mind into pretzels trying to explain all that pagan garbage, I find myself thinking… should I pity them, or spit on them.

    I spit on you.

  210. barr says:
    @Verymuchalive

    Armenian started sabotaging Ottoman and engaging into treason against Ottoman from 1880 and even earlier . It expelled Muslims and eagerly grabbed the Muslims lands won by Russia with the help of Armenian native of Turkey.

    That was the start of the problem inspired by the bad Marxist nationalist dreams of the diaspora Armenian living in Russia and Switzerland The desire of a kingdom on Anatolia was reinforced by borrowing from the nationalist religious ethnic meme from imperialist anti Muslims France England and Russia.

    “Armenian terrorist killed clergymen, desecrated the Armenian churches for rebel’s cause, extorted money and killed Armenian merchants ,police officers, army general and Armenian advisors to Ottoman government . Swiss origin Armenian Hunchakian Revolutionary Party and Russian origin
    Dashnaks, both formed before 1900 targeted Ottoman for destruction and for carving out an Armenian state .Beginning in earnest in the 1890s, the Russian Armenian revolutionaries began to infiltrate the Ottoman Empire. They smuggled rifles, cartridges, dynamite, and fighters across ill-defended borders into Van, Erzurum, and Bitlis provinces

    The Europeans had almost divided the Empire in 1878 and had planned to do so in the 1890s. Only fear that Russia would become too powerful had stopped them. Public opinion in Britain and France could easily change that. Indeed, that was exactly what the Armenian revolutionaries wanted. They wanted the Ottomans to jail and execute Armenian rebels. European newspapers would report that as government persecution of innocent Armenians. They wanted the government to prosecute Armenian revolutionary parties. The European newspapers would report that as denying political freedom to the Armenians. They wanted Muslims to react to Armenian provocations and attacks by killing Armenians. The European newspapers would report only the dead Armenians, not the dead Muslims. Public opinion would force the British and French to cooperate with the Russians and dismember the Empire.

    When the Dashnaks occupied the Ottoman Bank, Europeans arranged their release. European ambassadors forced the Ottomans to grant amnesty to rebels in Zeytun. They arranged pardons for those who attempted to kill sultan Abdülhamid II. The Russian consuls would not let Ottoman courts try Dashnak rebels, because they were Russian subjects. Many rebels who were successfully tried and convicted were released, because the Europeans demanded and received pardons for them, in essence threatening the sultan if he did not release rebels and murderers. One Russian consul in Van even publicly trained Armenian rebels, acting personally as their weapons instructor.”

    http://homepages.cae.wisc.edu/~dwilson/Armenia/justin.html

  211. Anonymous[412] • Disclaimer says:
    @alwayswrite

    Like a lot of Team Russia idiots, he longs for the glory days of Stalin, but he finds the liberals in Putin’s government too much to bear. So he has to tough it out from his dacha in Florida.

  212. yurivku says:
    @Anonymous

    regardless of what concessions to make, the fool will still break his forehead

  213. Anonymous[227] • Disclaimer says:

    It’s only a matter of time now:

    https://southfront.org/armenian-forces-last-chance/

    Another smashing success for Russian foreign policy!

  214. Mikael_ says:
    @anonymous

    Isn’t the Christian Church vitally important to the faith?

    Not sure, maybe for the faith part –
    but vitally important to me are the Christian principles (hope and love and charity and ‘acceptance of non-perfectism within this world’),
    not institutionalized Christianity.

    The second linked article needs a lot of interpretation to take it as negative.
    Especially you’d need to avoid any comparison to other countries.

    On the third linked article: Really, info from 2000, without any later update??
    That comes close to trolling on your part, in my book.

  215. anon[278] • Disclaimer says:

    No Russia cant .Its looking for a deal or for 2 deals from 2 opposite groups .

    “But that hasn’t dissuaded western Libyan officials from seeking further international action against Wagner, whose fighters now appear to have become a permanent fixture in Haftar’s ranks.
    “People should wake up and take notice of the Wagner’s crimes – here and worldwide,” Rabia Abu Ras, an MP based in Tripoli, tells MEE.
    “They are like Daesh, a terrorist group. Now they even threaten the world’s oil supplies.” The United States’ Africa Command (AFRICOM) said in July it had clear evidence that Wagner planted landmines and improvised explosive devices (IEDs) in and around Tripoli. “The Wagner Group’s irresponsible tactics are prolonging conflict and are responsible for the needless suffering and the deaths of innocent civilians,” said Major-General Bradford Gering, its director of operations. “Russia has the power to stop them, just not the will.” Russians dominate its ranks, but Wagner is also known to employ Serbians and Ukrainians.

    https://www.middleeasteye.net/big-story/libya-russia-wagner-mercenaries-sprayed-bullets

    Russia is acting just like another ISIS sponsor in Libya and is using its own Russian citizen to run the campaign of terrorism . Interestingly just like ISIS ‘s hatred for non -muslim makes them so much vicious , so does the racism makes Wagner just another equally dangerous opportunistic fascist beast.

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