The Unz Review: An Alternative Media Selection
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 BlogviewTrevor Lynch Archive
The First Dune Trailer
🔊 Listen RSS
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeThanksLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Thanks, LOL, or Troll with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used three times during any eight hour period.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

If movies can have previews, why can’t movie critics release “pre-reviews”? I ask because September 9th was the release date of the first trailer for the first half of Denis Villeneuve’s adaptation of Frank Herbert’s Dune.

Dune is one of the most-anticipated movies of 2020. Trailers can build up a lot of excitement for a film, but they are immediately forgotten when the movie actually appears. Yet due to COVID-19, there is a real chance that more people will see the movie’s trailer online than will see the actual film in theaters when it is released in December, and it may take months before the film is released on video and streaming services. Until that time, this and any subsequent trailers will eclipse the film itself.

Hence this little experiment. I want to prereview Dune based on the first trailer, plus other information gleaned from interviews and promotional materials. When (and if) you see the film, you can judge my prereview for prescience.

Any Dune adaptation is highly significant, because the novel is one of the great works of twentieth-century popular fiction, straddling both the sci-fi and fantasy genres. First published in 1965, Dune inspired legions of fans. Herbert wrote five sequels, and after his death his son Brian Herbert, together with Kevin J. Anderson, wrote more than a dozen Dune universe books, none of which I have read.

This movie is also significant because Dune has already inspired a series of screen adaptations. The first was by Alejandro Jodorowsky, which was highly influential even though it was never filmed. David Lynch’s 1984 Dune belongs in the category of great flawed films. In 2000, the Sci-Fi Channel did a four-and-a-half-hour, three-part Dune miniseries, which I thought was pretty bad, although its sequel, the Children of Dune miniseries (2003) is surprisingly good.

Dune also inspired screen homages and rip offs, most notably the vast Star Wars “franchise”—which is what the movie industry calls a “mythos.”

Beyond that, a Dune adaptation is politically important because, as I have argued in “Archaeofuturist Fiction: Frank Herbert’s Dune,” , Herbert’s vision is deeply reactionary, anti-modernist, and anti-liberal—and for quite compelling reasons.

Based on his movies Sicario, Arrival, and Blade Runner 2049, Denis Villeneuve is a highly talented director of both science fiction and action films. Thus he was a good choice to direct Dune. But will Dune be a good movie? Will it be better than the Lynch or the Sci-Fi Channel’s versions? (Yes, the Sci-Fi Channel adaptation was inferior to Lynch, but it included plot elements omitted by Lynch but not by Villeneuve, so it is reasonable to compare the two.) Will Villeneuve’s film bear any relation to Jodorowsky’s Dune? This three minute, five second trailer contains many clues.

Perhaps the chief flaw of Lynch’s Dune are the clunky special effects. The Sci-Fi Channel version’s effects also look cheap. Based on the trailer and Villeneuve’s other science fiction efforts, this adaptation beats the rivals easily in this department. But this is largely due to advances in technology. The big question is whether Villeneuve’s use of the new technology be tasteful or vulgar. Based on the trailer, I can’t yet decide. Aside from the sandworms, most of the effects in the trailer are static images that give one a sense of the design of vessels. But the test of effects is how well they move.

Another flaw of Lynch’s Dune was a lack of grand landscape photography, especially on the watery world of Caladan and the desert planet of Arrakis. Lynch mostly used models without much context. Fortunately, the trailer shows us glimpses of dramatic vistas on both planets. Another flaw of Lynch’s Arrakis is that many of the scenes, even in the desert, are dark, gloomy, and ugly. Deserts are beautiful places, but you’d never know that from the Lynch film. Unfortunately, based on the new trailer, Villeneuve’s Arrakis is almost as dark and ugly as Lynch’s.

Villeneuve’s movie dramatizes the first half of the Dune novel. The setting is more than 20,000 years in the future. Mankind has colonized the entire galaxy. No other intelligent life forms have been found. Because of the great distances between planets and the high cost of space travel, the political order is feudal. Noble houses (Dukes, Counts, Barons) rule entire planets, all of them subordinated to the Padishah Emperor on far-off Kaitain.

In addition to the noble houses, the other major powers are secretive initiatic societies dedicated to the development of human capacities.

The Spacing Guild has developed higher mathematics and prescience to traverse space.

The Bene Tleilax brotherhood, who are Sufis, has developed mnemonics and to create “mentats” (human computers, because artificial intelligence is religiously prohibited), yogic superpowers that allow them to shift shapes, and genetic engineering techniques.

The Bene Gesserit sisterhood has developed skills in martial arts (the Weirding Way), memory sharing, hyper-observation and abductive reasoning, seduction and sex, religious and political deception, and eugenics.

Nobody knows what their ultimate goal is, but their proximal goal—which they are nearing—is breeding a superman, the Kwisatz Haderach (shortener of the way), a Janus-like figure who will be able to access all of his ancestors’ memories as well as presciently peer into the future.

The most valuable resource in the universe is the so-called spice mélange, harvested from the sands of Arrakis, also known as Dune. The spice extends life but also expands the mind, thus it is used by the Guild, Tleilaxu, and Bene Gesserit in all their schemes to transcend the human condition.

The plot of Dune centers on the struggle of two noble houses, the Atreides and the Harkonnen, for control of Arrakis. But this is no normal aristocratic feud, because the most precious resource in the universe is at stake, and one of the players, Paul Atreides, the fourteen-year-old heir to Arrakis, may well be the Kwisatz Haderach the sisterhood has been searching for.

In the trailer the two primary characters are Paul Atreides, (played by Timothée Chalamet) and the Bene Gesserit Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam (Charlotte Rampling), who has come to test Paul’s powers on the eve of the Atreides’ departure to take control of Arrakis. Their scene and bits of dialogue from it are intercut with flashes of events to come as the Atreides are attacked on Arrakis by the Harkonnen. Paul and his mother are forced to flee to the desert, where they take refuge with the Fremen, the indigenous people of Arrakis.

I wasn’t thrilled when I heard that Chalamet was cast as Paul. He does not look as good as Lynch’s Kyle MacLachlan or the Sci-Fi Channel’s Alec Newman. He looks too delicate for the action sequences. But it is difficult to find an actor who can pass for a teenager and handle the role. Judging from the trailer, however, Chalamet has some steel in him. He will probably do the character credit.

One of the best sequences in Lynch’s film is when the Reverend Mother tests Paul with “the box.” We see glimpses of this in the trailer. Lynch’s Reverend Mother was played beautifully by Siân Phillips. In the Sci-Fi series, she was played by a Czech actress, Zuzana Geislerová, who would have been forgettable if her stupid hats and heavy accent had not made her ridiculous. (She was much better in Children of Dune.) Based on the trailer, Rampling has poise and a great voice. She will do justice to the role.

The only other character in the trailer with significant lines is Duncan Idaho. (Baron Harkonnen and Chani have just a few words.) Although Idaho is a very important character, especially in the subsequent books, Lynch’s adaptation left little room for Idaho, who was played by Richard Jordan. In the Sci-Fi miniseries, he was played by the forgettable James Watson. (In Children of Dune he was memorably played by Edward Atterton.) Villeneuve has cast the half-Hawaiian bodybuilder/action hero Jason Momoa to play Idaho.

Momoa is a very good choice. The first half of Dune contains a number of flight and fight scenes featuring Idaho that were cut by Lynch. These will make excellent action sequences, so Momoa with his heroic physique and martial arts skills will shine in them. As for Momoa’s mixed race ancestry: Duncan Idaho is really the only character in Dune who is described as not being white. “Idaho” is an American Indian name, and the character is described as having high cheekbones, a somewhat flat face, and dark, wavy hair like a karakul sheep. Momoa actually looks the part.

Oscar Isaac plays Duke Leto Atreides. This is actually a better choice than Lynch’s Jürgen Prochnow and Sci-Fi’s William Hurt, since the Atreides are supposed to have a Mediterranean look (brunette, aquiline noses) and descend from the ancient Greek house of Atreus. Isaac, who is of Cuban, Guatemalan, and French ancestry, looks the part. Chalamet, who is half-French, half-Jewish, does so as well.

A beautiful Scottish-Swedish actress, Rebecca Ferguson, plays Lady Jessica, Paul’s mother. She looks good, but not as good as Francesca Annis in Lynch’s film. Saskia Reeves in the Sci-Fi series was too earthy. Alice Kriege (the Borg Queen) was, however, utterly regal in Children of Dune.

Just as Kyle MacLachlan looked like he could have been the child of Jürgen Prochnow and Francesca Annis, Chalamet looks like he could be the son of Isaac and Ferguson.

Josh Brolin is a great choice for Gurney Halleck, the Atreides weapons master, who was memorably played by Patrick Steward in Lynch’s film.

I can’t complain about Villeneuve casting a Chinaman to play the traitor, Dr. Wellington Yueh, even though he was not described as oriental. Thufir Hawat, the Atreides mentat and Master of Assassins, is played by Stephen McKinley Henderson, who has some black ancestry, but who looks quite white. So even this choice doesn’t really stray from Herbert’s vision.

As for the Harkonnens: Swedish actor Stellan Skarsgård plays the mad Baron, Vladimir Harkonnen. Dave Bautista plays his brutish nephew Glossu Rabban. Bautista is part Philippino, but is in whiteface. The Baron’s nephew, Feyd Rautha, does not appear in this movie. David Dastmalchian plays the Harkonnens’ twisted mentat Piter De Vries. With his Armenian, Iranian, and European ancestry, Dastmalchian is a strange looking guy and inspired casting for this role, which was memorably played by Brad Dourif in the Lynch film.

The Fremen leader Stigar is played by Javier Bardem. He’s a great actor and will be the best Stilgar yet, although Steven Berkoff was outstanding in Children of Dune.

Unfortunately, at this point Villeneuve’s casting goes completely off the rails.

The character of the Imperial Planetologist, Dr. Liet Kynes, is described by Herbert as a natural leader of astonishing nobility as well as a scientific genius. He was memorably portrayed by Max von Sydow in Lynch’s film. Villeneuve has decided to cast Kynes as a very black woman (Sharon Duncan-Brewster).

This is such outrageous political correctness that Villeneuve claimed that it was necessitated by his choice of a mulatto actress, Zendaya, to play Liet’s daughter Chani, who becomes Paul’s love interest.

This argument is complete nonsense, however, since Zendaya presumably had a white male parent, so there was no need other than blatant racial appropriation to change Kynes’ sex and race. And, of course, it is also racial appropriation to cast his daughter as a mulatto.

But it gets worse. Villeneuve casts two other Fremen with black actors as well. Harah, the wife of Stilgar, is played by Gloria Obianyo. Jamis, who fights with Paul and is killed, is played by Babs Olusanmokun.

This is a very bad sign, for it seems likely that Villeneuve wishes to portray the Fremen, who are the good guys, as primarily non-white. Given that their enemies, the Harkonnens, are depicted with shaved heads and conspicuously white skin, Villeneuve is turning Dune into an anti-white race-war prosecuted by non-whites and white race-mixers (Paul, Stilgar). This isn’t Frank Herbert’s Dune. Like every other piece of mainstream entertainment, Villeneuve’s Dune is just another version of the White Genocide script.

ORDER IT NOW

The fact that America has been convulsed for four months by people LARPing the same script is producing a great deal of fatigue for blacks and their white saviors. If COVID does not turn audiences away in droves, this blackface desecration of Herbert’s vision just might. In the past, I could overlook this kind of casting if other parts of the story were good. I don’t think I can do that anymore. This isn’t a game. Our race and civilization are dying, and the politicians, journalists, activists, and artists who are promoting the Great Replacement are simply evil. Denis Villeneuve has desecrated Dune. This movie deserves to bomb as badly as Disney’s Star Wars.

 
• Category: Arts/Letters • Tags: Hollywood, Movies, Science Fiction 
Hide 203 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
    []
  1. “This movie deserves to bomb as badly as Star Wars”

    No it doesn’t. George Lucas’s updating of Flash Gordon was a successful experiment in merchandising. Sorry Star Boys, it’s always been about the toys. I share Lynch’s disdain of black washing white characters. I don’t find blacks appealing or interesting. Since the African is the primary psyop weapon in the kulture kampf waged against whitey the African is ubiquitous. And I find it all rather tiring. But I’m willing to be enthusiastic about this new version of Dune given the source material, the look of the trailer, and Denis Villeneuve’s filmography.

    • Replies: @Trevor Lynch
    , @Max Payne
  2. A123 says:

    This does not bode well… It took only 22 seconds to expose the first problem:

    — Why substitute “Crusade” for “Jihad”?
    — Has SJW anti-Christian bias contaminated the effort?

    This bit of language is a huge early warning sign for a potential “Go Woke, Go Broke” pile of unwatchable trash.
    ____

    The second problem, making Dr. Kynes female, damages the back story of the universe.

    Freman society is divided between male tribe leaders (Naibs) and female religious leaders. Despite the mysticism that surrounds Liet, his role working with the Freman tribes needs authority on the secular side of the line.

    Imperial Society has noble families with male inheritance. Emperor Corrino’s core problem is the fact that he has only daughters and thus no heir. A female Dr. Keynes could not serve as Imperial “Judge of the Change”, as that position has authority over Dukes within the male noble hierarchy. Imperial “Planetologist” is also a stretch, but perhaps that could be made to work as a science rather than noble appointment.

    The Sci-Fi miniseries used a much better approach to add a strong female character. Julie Cox delivered an excellent performance as Princess Irulan applying insight, cunning, and manipulation that makes sense within the back story:

    Emperor Corrino: What she lacks is the primary of our gender.
    Count Fenring: Then you must marry her to a suitably pliant personality.

    ____

    Too early too tell for sure, but I am deeply concerned.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @El Dato
    , @botazefa
  3. I read this book for the first time about 15 years ago, before I really became politically and culturally aware. I remember enjoying the book a lot and thinking, “Wow. That is a better story than Star Wars for sure.” I watched the 1984 movie and was mostly unimpressed. I was getting excited reading your review, until I neared the end and saw that the studio decided to blackify this film, and not only that, but to frame it as a race war between the evil whites and the noble non-whites and enlightened race mixing whites. This narrative is getting so tedious. I wonder if these people ever get tired of pushing this?

    Black Pilled on YouTube has a review for Netflix’s “Bird Box” that was great and hilarious. He talked about how white people were nearly always the villains, the blacks and Muslims were the heroes (saving the white woman), and how the one reactionary white guy was the a$$hole who had a gun and who’s legitimate protestations throughout the film always went unheeded, even though subsequent events always proved him right, until finally the stupidity of the group got him killed. He also pointed out how in the movie there was an underlying theme that if you saw the thing and you were a good person, you would just kill yourself, but if you saw the thing and you were inherently bad, then you would become a deranged murdering sociopath. I’ll bet you can guess which race did what after they saw the thing in the film.

  4. Rahan says:

    In the past, I could overlook this kind of casting if other parts of the story were good. I don’t think I can do that anymore. This isn’t a game.

    Last year that was my reaction to the newest Terminator and Knives Out. I sat there in the theater, drowning in a stream of anti-white propaganda, super duper in your face. Feisty Latinas the inheritors of America. Christ.

    • Replies: @Priss Factor
    , @syonredux
  5. @SunBakedSuburb

    You misquoted me about Star Wars.

    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
  6. Well I dunno, the subtext of the dune novel is sort of an anti imperialist screed against the occupation of Palestine, so it sort of fits. The allegorically partially Jewish Paul leads the Arabs against his race. In this movie, the part Jewish Paul leads the crushed colored masses of America against the white male patriarchy. How could it be otherwise in this environment? At least they didn’t cast a trump look alike as baron Harkonnen. I defer judgement until I have seen it.

    I look forward to it. I would like to read the book again before the movie but that’s a tall order for me.

    Say, do you guys know much about the renegades? What do you think of them? I want to know more!

    • Replies: @tru3
  7. If COVID does not turn audiences away in droves, this blackface desecration of Herbert’s vision just might… This movie deserves to bomb as badly as Disney’s Star Wars.

    Too many young people have jungle fever or jungle faith. They like blackstaining.
    Disney’s STAR WARS didn’t bomb. The last one didn’t live up to expectations but still made over a billion worldwide. Disney is already in the black with STAR WARS franchise.

    Villeneuve is a gun-for-hire. Hollywood ultimately decides, and it’s run by Jews and cucks.

    • Replies: @Alden
    , @Joseph Doaks
    , @CAL2
  8. @Rahan

    Last year that was my reaction to the newest Terminator and Knives Out.

    The newest TERMINATOR didn’t strike me as anti-white. Just hilariously stupid.

    • Replies: @neutral
    , @Chris Mallory
  9. Ian Smith says:

    I always interpreted Paul as being a hybrid of T. E. Lawrence and Muhammad (Muad’ib!) The Fremen blindsiding the greater imperial powers resembles the Byzantines and Sassanians getting blindsided by the newly Islamized Arabs.

  10. @Trevor Lynch

    You are correct. Apologies. Like your writing, btw.

  11. @Ian Smith

    That’s right. Palestine had nothing to do with it.

    • Replies: @Ian Smith
  12. Max Payne says:
    @SunBakedSuburb

    Please don’t credit George Lucas for anything. The first movie was saved in editing by his ex-wife Marcia Lucas. The other two movies were directed by other people (Irven Kershner & Richard Marquand).

    George Lucas incompetence wanted Han Solo to be some sort of retarded vampire, C3P0 to be a used car salesman-type and Luke as some sort of cyborg that can detach his own head. Of course a competent script writer (along with his ex-wife again) talked him out of that idiocy.

    George Lucas had complete control with Episode 1, 2, and 3; that’s his level of skill when no one challenges him (garbage-level).

    People need to stop thinking George Lucas has any sort of gift, genius, foresight, talent, aptitude, technique, artistry, brilliance, expertise, capacity, ability, competence or skill. He is the pinnacle definition of someone who just slaps his name on the hard work of other people. Like that kid in university with group projects that doesn’t show up until the day of submission just to tell the professor he was part of this group and reaps full marks.

    At least James Cameron put up some money for research into deep sea exploration.

    As for Dune (by far my favorite novel):

    [MORE]

    The novel will NEVER be made into a movie faithfully. There are too many high concepts to digest that 90-120 minutes will not be able to convey properly to your normal audience (with no anchor for the audience to relate with; Arrival was set in a contemporary time and Bladerunner 2049 wasn’t too far removed from daily life and relied on its visuals to establish mood).

    [On a side note: In the movie Arrival it was redneck heavily accented white christian US soldiers that first went rogue and opened fire on the visiting aliens. Keep it in mind for Dune]

    I appreciate the director and his work and I’m sure visually he’ll be able to keep the audience entertained but he does not have the courage to convey the higher ideas.

    To paint the universe of Dune (a universe filled with 80 IQ serfs ruled by spice-addicted 140+ IQ nobles who live almost forever) and why Arrakis is different and crucial is a tall order. To explore the survivalist attitudes of Zen-Sunni culture (which encourages xenophobia) or to describe why humanity has abandoned thinking technology and have opted to live more viscerally (and more exposed) to the universe is not something your thumb-twiddling pleb who needs a $1000 piece of shit Apple phone is going to detect or even comprehend. To explore the concept of perception altering and intelligence enhancing substances is also something that will not be easy to do maturely (unless you want something goofy like Limitless).

    Dune is SO FAR into the future it’s alien and the vast majority of viewers will be turned off unless it’s anchored with something to reality (thus the racial component that’s being shoehorn in; bald scheming white people bad, black holistic salt-of-earth people good).

    It’s all going to be glossed over for memorable battle scenes, long vistas, and highly contrasted visually appealing set pieces.

    I can tell you right now it is going to be a racial commentary piece of the issues today. I can see it now. They are going to defile Duke Letos quote as some sort of racial resistance to the status quo:

    “A person needs new experiences. It jars something deep inside, allowing the to grow. Without change something sleeps inside us, and seldom awakens. The sleeper must awaken.”

    Just like the latest James Bond film I won’t even bother watching this until a bluray torrent is released and even then I’ll probably download a few months/years later. Because movies are dead and Hollywood killed itself (fitting to say the least).

    • Agree: SIMP simp
    • Replies: @Carlos22
  13. syonredux says:
    @Rahan

    Last year that was my reaction to the newest Terminator and Knives Out. I sat there in the theater, drowning in a stream of anti-white propaganda, super duper in your face. Feisty Latinas the inheritors of America. Christ.

    On the other hand, casting Ana de Armas as a Woman of Color was laugh out loud funny:

    The biggest problem that I have with the Villeneuve version is that its aesthetic is so dull. Lynch’s version is far from perfect, but the sets and the costumes were stunning.

    • Replies: @A123
  14. @Ian Smith

    That’s all there for sure, but the geopolitical significance of the spice for running the intergalactic system clearly symbolizes petroleum, yanking the story into the modern context. There’s this odd backwards race of fanatics sitting atop a resource that’s critical for the whole civilization. Sound familiar?

    The spice is also like coffee when it fuels the mentats’ cerebrations. I have mentat powers when I drink coffee!

    • Agree: Ian Smith
    • Replies: @kba56
  15. Alden says:
    @Priss Factor

    It’s not that young people like blacks that much. It’s just that they’ve grown up with more blacks than Whites featured in their school books, TV shows and ADs to the point that they think half the population is black

  16. @Alden

    I think it’s not that they necessarily like or dislike them, it’s that lionizing blacks assuages the guilt which has been relentlessly instilled in our young people by society. It makes them feel better about themselves.

  17. meamjojo says:

    Speaking of blackifying society, I have been noticing that the commercials on TV have a lot more black actors, whether primary or secondary. And of course, we have The Daily Show, which has been transformed under Trevor Noah into a primary black program where in any given show, at least 75% of the content is black related or culturally driven.

    And now we have this apparent travesty of Herbert’s wonderful books.

    • Replies: @jim jones
    , @NoobSpyBot
  18. Dune should’ve been adapted in the mid 00s when the technology was already good enough but before the SJW rot had set in. Now it’s too late, every major film production needs to include at least one black woman in a leading role even if it makes no sense. If LOTR were made now then Galadriel would’ve been played by Viola Davis (not joking).

    I guess ultimately the film will still portray the noble ruling aristocratic good guys as white (the Atreides) and the violent, superstitious savages as mixed/black (the Fremen). You still walk away from the movie thinking the only people capable of creating sophisticated civilization are white and that non-whites need white leadership to accomplish anything.

    • Agree: Mike Tre
  19. @Alden

    Good point, and I think this also accounts for the shock and outrage among Lefties when they see the “lack of representation” among many professions or positions. In their minds, shaped by the media, half the population are competent blacks, so why the hell are there so few professors, senior editors, Oscar-winning directors, etc etc etc who are blacks?

  20. Talha says:

    Villeneuve has decided to cast Kynes as a very black woman (Sharon Duncan-Brewster).

    That was silly, he should have stuck to the original.

    As far as the casting for Paul and Chani; I think – at least visually – it is spot on.

    Villeneuve wishes to portray the Fremen, who are the good guys, as primarily non-white.

    Wait, what in the original books gave you the impression they were European-like people? These are desert people, they’ve been portrayed in concept art like this:
    The above were from the Dune card game from the 90’s.

    The Fremen are descendants of the people collectively called the ZenSunni Wanderers that settled on Arrakis – with leaders like “Maometh” and “Ali Ben Ohashi” in their history. Their language is still heavily peppered with Arabic. When Paul joins the tribe officially, Stilgar says he is part of the “Ichwan Bedwine”.

    When you were reading the books, did you actually imagine freckled Danish people or something wearing stillsuits? If so, why?

    the Harkonnens, are depicted with shaved heads and conspicuously white skin

    And…?

    “Frank Herbert said in later interviews that he modeled the fictional Harkonnens after the Nazi Party.”
    https://dune.fandom.com/wiki/House_Harkonnen

    Peace.

  21. A123 says:
    @syonredux

    The biggest problem that I have with the Villeneuve version is that its aesthetic is so dull. Lynch’s version is far from perfect, but the sets and the costumes were stunning.

    The Sci-Fi miniseries was very color & costume driven. In many ways, it used a theatre aesthetic rather than one rooted in action films. Given Dune’s structure and story similarity to a Greek Epic this worked for most viewers. Baron Harkonnen’s transition dialogs were in Iambic Pentameter, which added to the sense of a stage play changing scenes.

    A few people found the theatrical style off putting or heavy handed. They wanted a movie and received a play.

    PEACE 😇

  22. Ian Smith says:
    @Trevor Lynch

    If Arrakis is meant to be Palestine, they could have gotten Harvey Weinstein to play Baron Harkonnen!

    In all seriousness, I can see parallels with Muhammad’s time, and it’s certainly prescient coming less than a decade before the 1973 embargo, but if it’s meant to be an allegory for Israel and Palestine, then who are the Jews?

  23. @Ian Smith

    What you said. And the empire is the USA.

    • Replies: @Ian Smith
  24. @Talha

    That is a good point. When I read Dune many years ago it was obvious that the Fremen were Arabs. And Harkonnen has a distinctly German ring to my ear.

    • Replies: @Trevor Lynch
  25. @A Texas Libertarian

    He talked about how white people were nearly always the villains, the blacks and Muslims were the heroes (saving the white woman)

    This sounds exactly like the sensitivity training videos my company forces me to watch on a quarterly basis.

  26. Tusk says:

    Despite the flaws of Lynch’s Dune it managed to embody a grandoise sentiment which is present in the book. Of course some of the issues with Lynch’s adaption can simply be attributed to the overall length and depth of the book. Having two movies this time around will help alleviate this problem but based on the trailer I don’t detect the grandoise sentiment and instead just more of stock hollywood. I like Villenueve and I think he’s the best talent at the moment to do it but he’s quite a depressing filmmaker so there needs to be some gaiety to contrast.

    • Replies: @Voltara
  27. @Jefferson Temple

    “Harkonnen has a distinctly German ring to my ear.”

    Harkonnen is a Finnish name.

    • Replies: @Jefferson Temple
    , @TKK
  28. @Talha

    Herbert doesn’t describe the Fremen as Arab-like in the physiognomy. He doesn’t really describe them much at all. So yes, I assume he is envisioning them as pretty much standard white folk. As for Arabic words, they pervade the whole Imperium as a manifestation of the syncretic religion of the Orange Catholic Bible.

    Likening the Harkonnens to the Nazis is absurd, as they are quintessential merchant princes. The mad Baron has no sense of honor and completely overlooks the warrior virtues and potential power of the Fremen. The Atreides, however, are likened to the Nazis because of their amazing power to command loyalty. They immediately see the Fremen as kindred spirits.

  29. Ian Smith says:
    @Happy Tapir

    I don’t see it. If the Harkonnens were sponsoring large scale immigration to Arrakis of their own, then I’d say yeah the Harkonnens are Zionists. I had a friend from Turkey who thought of the Harkonnens as caricatures of the Ottoman.

    • Replies: @Happy Tapir
  30. Talha says:
    @Ian Smith

    it’s meant to be an allegory for Israel and Palestine, then who are the Jews?

    It isn’t…at least I never saw it. A group of Jews (like actual Jews) do show up in later books. It is a small group who are refugees and are led by a rabbi. They are taken up in a very large spaceship and are basically fighting to survive in circumstances that are beyond their control.

    I think both sides (SJWs and alt/dissident-right) are reading things into Dune that are simply not there. I mean, I was upset that Paul uses the word “crusade” instead of “jihad” in the trailer – and I really hope this wasn’t because of the sentiments of some hypersensitive Muslims (that haven’t even spent the time to read the book).

    The jihad is a major part and theme of Dune; in fact it is a manifestation of genetics in the Dune universe. The catalyst for the jihad is that, for thousands and thousands of years, human beings have been scattered across the galaxy on various planets. This has led to genetic isolation and stagnation on a massive scale. The catalyst for many of the events is this unstoppable underlying force that Paul is helpless against (from Dune itself):
    “He found that he no longer could hate the Bene Gesserit or the Emperor or even the Harkonnens. They were all caught up in the need of their race to renew its scattered inheritance, to cross and mingle and infuse their bloodlines in a great new pooling of genes. And the race knew only one sure way for this—the ancient way . . . jihad.”

    Notes: Paul realizes that the only way the human race knows how to diversify its gene pool is through bloody, fanatical warfare. The creation of a Kwisatz Haderach to help cross and mingle the bloodlines is ironic. After tens of thousands of years of technological development and human evolution, humans are still influenced first and foremost by the most primary human instinct: sex drive.
    https://www.sparknotes.com/lit/dune/quotes/page/2/

    This is expounded in the later books as well; periodically the human race has upsurges of religious upheaval and conflict and that is simply the facade for the latent impetus…which is an evolutionary urge to prevent genetic isolation/stagnation.

    This also brings up the question of whether the Fremen are the “good guys”. They are the mechanism and tool of the jihad; they both help Paul regain revenge against the Harkonnens, the Spacing Guild and the Emperor, but once the jihad is over Paul is the galactic emperor, billions and billions of people are dead, entire planets have been eradicated…all part of the price. And Paul being the charismatic leader who was the catalyst for pushing these events into motion, leading to another theme of Dune; the advent of charismatic/messianic leaders can often lead to large scale tragedy.

    On a high level summary, a young white guy gets lost in the desert, ends up getting adopted by a local tribe, takes on their religion, kills one of them in a duel and wins his wife as a prize, takes one of their girls as a concubine, learns mastery of their language and ways, leads them to victory over their mutual enemies. Pretty cool plot to me.

    Peace.

  31. @Trevor Lynch

    Finnish? Ok, that is believable. Still has a Germanic ring to it. And they do come off as cartoon Nazis, do they not? At least in Lynch’s version.

  32. @Ian Smith

    Well how do you localize it, I wonder?

    How can you not equate the spice with oil and the Middle East crisis? This seems willfully obtuse to me. After that the fight against the invading group seems to explicate itself. I think it’s highly textured too. Many geopolitical details are allegorized along the way.

    @Trevor Lynch: I googled these questions online a bit to see if anyone else had written about them. At least one amazon reviewer who sounded pretty smart based on his other reviews agreed. Also, I came across and article describing the influence of the book Swords of Paradise on Dune, which is about the Arab resistance to Russian invasion during the Crimean war, and supposedly the Härkönen, which is Finnish, is based partly on the Rus. Vladimir Hark.

    • Replies: @MEH 0910
    , @Talha
    , @Ian Smith
  33. Talha says:
    @Trevor Lynch

    Herbert doesn’t describe the Fremen as Arab-like in the physiognomy.

    Agreed. He never explicitly describes them as such. Other than a few details of some of them, like olive skin or jet black hair or full lips or aquiline nose, etc. we never get anything that would lead us to conclude they are indeed Arabs as we know (desert) Arabs to be.

    He doesn’t really describe them much at all.

    In which case there is no real reason to object to them being portrayed in any manner…least of all in portraying them closer to what we know deep desert-dwellers to look like; for instance Arabs or Tuaregs.

    So yes, I assume he is envisioning them as pretty much standard white folk.

    This reminds me how Jesus (pbuh) is portrayed like some German guy in parts of Europe, like a olive-skinned Greek in others, like a black guy in Ethiopia and an Asian guy in China.

    Look, if there was some fictional world someone came up with where it’s full of water, the people are sea faring and have parts of remnants of Norse mythology, use Nordic phrases…most people don’t naturally conclude; “those folks probably look Filipino”.

    These are tribal people living in a desert planet for thousands of years, descended from people with Arabic-sounding names; I guess one can make a case that they look like generic whites or “standard white folk”, don’t know how many people will go for it.

    As for Arabic words, they pervade the whole Imperium as a manifestation of the syncretic religion of the Orange Catholic Bible.

    Some Arabic words certainly do, but the amount of Arabic in the language of the Fremen is unmistakable. Paul has to learn it. There are entire Arabic phrases that they use that are unique to them:
    “Ya hya chouhada” – “Long live the fighters” is actually talking about lives of the shuhada (the martyrs)

    I remember distinctly when I came across a passage in Children of Dune where the Lady Jessica rallies the old-guard Fremen to her with an Arabic phrase:
    But since that day in the desert when the Fremen gave the gift of life to me and to my son, I have been Fremen!” And she lapsed into the old tongue which only those in this room who could profit by it would understand: “Onsar akhaka zeliman aw maslumen!” Support your brother in his time of need, whether he be just or unjust!

    That’s basically lifted right out of hadith:
    انْصُرْ أَخَاكَ ظَالِمًا أَوْ مَظْلُومًا – UnSur akhaaka, zaaliman aw mazluuman

    “Allah’s Messenger (pbuh) said, ‘Help your brother, whether he is an oppressor or he is oppressed.’ People asked, ‘O Allah’s Messenger! It is all right to help him if he is oppressed, but how should we help him if he is an oppressor?’ The Prophet (pbuh) said, ‘By restraining him or preventing him from committing injustice, for that is how you support him.’” – reported in variations in Bukhari and Muslim

    Likening the Harkonnens to the Nazis is absurd

    Take it up with Herbert, he said it, not me.

    The mad Baron has no sense of honor

    Agreed, Baron Harkonnen is probably the most diabolically (and over-the-top) evil villain in all of fiction that I can think of; he has no redeeming qualities whatsoever. Some people don’t like that, I thought it was great! Take Ming the Merciless and make him enormously obese and a predatory homosexual – absolutely brilliant!

    The Atreides, however, are likened to the Nazis because of their amazing power to command loyalty.

    Hmmm…OK, but it’s not through Goebbels-style propaganda or something. It’s because men like Leto actually care about the people he rules over. Kynes sees this when Leto risks his life to save the spice crew from being eaten by the worm. He also gets rid of the water-wasting rituals at the castle that was meant to rub it into the face of the Fremen.

    Peace.

    • Agree: SIMP simp
  34. Ian Smith says:
    @Trevor Lynch

    I think that the inspiration came not from Nazi ideology as from the character of individual Nazis. You could see him as a kind of grotesque combination of Herman Goering and Ernst Rohm.

    • Replies: @Talha
  35. tertius says:

    “I wasn’t thrilled when I heard that Chalamet was cast as Paul. He does not look as good as Lynch’s Kyle MacLachlan or the Sci-Fi Channel’s Alec Newman. ”

    I’ve always been surprised that Kyle MacLachlan was viewed by anyone as good casting for Paul Atreides. Whatever his abilities as an actor, MacLachlan looks like the water-heavy President of the local Frat house. The Fremen would have rendered his liquid flesh without a second thought.

    • Agree: Joseph Doaks
  36. Go Manga.

    In Japan in the late 60s and 70s, talented wanna-be movie-makers who couldn’t enter the movie industry went into manga or comic books for adults(whereas comics in the US became associated with children).

  37. TKK says:
    @Trevor Lynch

    Hi Trevor,

    One day, can you put your pen to Alien, Aliens or Prometheus?

    I am embarrassed how many times I have watched these movies- but always find something new with each viewing.

    Also, all three are free from Negro worship (maybe a tiny bit in Prometheus) and woke think.

    Here’s are some great lines from Aliens that would incite horror and vapors now:

    Private Hudson : Hey Vasquez, have you ever been mistaken for a man?
    Private Vasquez : No. Have you?

    Private Vasquez : Look, man. I only need to know one thing: where they are.
    Private Drake : Go, Vasquez. Kick ass.
    Private Vasquez : Anytime, anywhere, man!
    Private Hudson : Right, right. Somebody said “alien” she thought they said “illegal alien” and signed up!
    Private Vasquez : F*ck you, man!
    Private Hudson : Anytime, anywhere.

    • Thanks: Joseph Doaks
  38. Talha says:
    @Happy Tapir

    Swords of Paradise on Dune, which is about the Arab resistance to Russian invasion

    Those were Chechen and Dagestani Muslims from the Cacausus region (for the record). Arabs never made it that far.

    Peace.

    • Thanks: John Regan
  39. Talha says:
    @Ian Smith

    You could see him as a kind of grotesque combination of Herman Goering and Ernst Rohm.

    Never thought of that, good point.

    Peace.

  40. @Trevor Lynch

    I don’t really remember any descriptions of the Fremen’s physical appearance in the novels, but in Children of Dune Paul’s half-Fremen children Leto II and Ghanima were described as having red hair, so it is doubtful that Herbert thought of the Fremen as non-White.

    Regardless of their appearance, the Fremen constituted a closed gene pool that had been isolated from the rest of humanity and breeding among themselves for thousands of years, so they doubtless would have had a racially uniform appearance. Portraying the Fremen as a mixed group with both white and black members is not realistic.

    • Replies: @Rahan
    , @SOL
    , @MEH 0910
  41. “Standard white folk”?

  42. Avatar is still the best Dune adaptation so far.

    • Replies: @Not Only Wrathful
  43. Hypersensitive brainwashed “Christians” you mean?

    Ask Jihad and her friend Isis…..

  44. neutral says:
    @Priss Factor

    They replaced John Connor with a Mexican woman, that seems like an anti white slap in the face to me.

    • Replies: @Sya Beerens
    , @Priss Factor
  45. neutral says:

    Nobody should act surprised that this is the only mode of film making allowed in (((Hollywood))) these days. To think they can make anything but anti white propaganda is expecting Soviet era movies to be any thing but communist propaganda. Every movie will consist of black washed characters, every movie will attack whites (and the propaganda is becoming less subtle), every movie they make views you as the enemy. If you are paying money for any of this garbage, you are ultimately paying to support white genocide.

    • Agree: Joseph Doaks
  46. The movie industry has one purpose:

    Subversiveness against Western Civilization, Whites, White men, Christians, Christianity and Christ/God.

  47. Dumbo says:

    I read Dune (the first book, maybe the second) as a teenager and while I remember having liked it, it didn’t leave a lasting impression. Then I saw Lynch’s movie which was memorable in some parts (especially some grotesque characters, typically Lynchian), but also very confusing in its plot.

    I am not looking forward to this movie. First of all, I don’t get the excessive praise for Villeneuve. His “Arrival” or whatever it was called was very bad. And of course, with a female genius scientist. All his movies seem very politically correct, so his casting for this one doesn’t surprise me. His Blade Runner was we done, but overlong and a bit pointless. Did it add anything to the original film? Not much. I haven’t seen his earlier Quebecois films, maybe they are better and more original, but so far he seems just a run-of-the-mill director for hire.

    Also, I don’t have this obsession with science fiction movies, and in particular Dune, Star Wars, Star Trek, which seem to be an obsession for people with Asperger’s/Autism or people who never grew out of their teenage years. Of course interest in science fiction is a male thing, but I don’t now, Star Wars was a film for children and teenagers, stop buying Star War toys and crying that Jew Jew Abrams ruined the franchise. He did, but, there was no point in idolizing the original films either.

  48. @neutral

    it’s based upon books not the adaptations,

  49. The Iraqi people can’t imagine your pain……

  50. neutral says:
    @Dumbo

    Also, I don’t have this obsession with science fiction movies, and in particular Dune, Star Wars, Star Trek, which seem to be an obsession for people with Asperger’s/Autism or people who never grew out of their teenage years.

    Yes geek culture can be corrosive, but science fiction is not simply an autism thing. It is no accident that science fiction is generally followed by whites (and East Asians to some degree), to envisage the future and build a better future is part of our race. Despite the huge effort from the SJWs to force in blacks into the science fiction world, the blacks overwhelmingly are not into it.

  51. @neutral

    They replaced John Connor with a Mexican woman, that seems like an anti white slap in the face to me.

    They did the Connor story with TERMINATOR 3. Bad movie.

    This time, the Mexican girl is protected by some white tomboy. It’s hilarious.

    But the real howler is when we learn Arnold the Terminator became domesticated as a nanny-man.

    Hilarious.

    • Replies: @Presocratic
  52. @Sya Beerens

    So is Black Lives Matter and look at the damage it is doing.

    • Replies: @Sya Beerens
  53. jim jones says:
    @meamjojo

    The only way this movie would be watchable would be if it was directed by Clint Eastwood

  54. @Talha

    Stilgar says he is part of the “Ichwan Bedwine”

    And the use of terms like ‘fedaykin’ (an obvious variant of fedayeen, used for exactly the same societal role) – even American children (the stupidest children in the Anglophone world) would picture Stilgar as being Arab-looking.

    Herbert fucked up Mentats, though. The Dune versions are shit: they do stupid shit all the time, which kind of makes the whole ‘human thinking-machine’ schtick look lame. Still, I guess if they behaved like actual human thinking machines, the protagonists wouldn’t be guided to make a shitload of strategic fuckups, so there would be no source of ‘grand scale’ narrative tension.

    • Replies: @A123
    , @Talha
  55. El Dato says:

    Dune also inspired screen homages and rip offs, most notably the vast Star Wars “franchise”—which is what the movie industry calls a “mythos.”

    The original “Star Wars” is basically a “Samurai Movie in Space” (saved by George Lucas getting good input from people around him and the lack of CGI)

    But always remember that Dune is uh … “inspired by” … of Cordwainer Smith’s “Norstrilia”. It got a lot more traction though.

  56. i dont know who plays Paul, but his physiognomy tells he he is a fag. maybe we could get a gofundme and buy him a chin.

    Not going to pay money to see a black liet kynes.

    wasnt he Chani’s father? so how are they going to unfuck that?

  57. @jim jones

    Timothee Chalamet as Paul Atreides, or Muad’dib goes EMO.

  58. Chalamet has some steel in him.

    I was similarly dubious of him playing Henry V in the Netflix film, yet he was excellent. Not as fun as Robert Pattinson as the French Dauphin, but, if you watch that film, you’ll see how well-suited Chalamet is to the role of Paul Atreides.

  59. Z-man says:

    Dune is one of the most-anticipated movies of 2020.

    A sad commentary on the state of filmmaking.
    The 1984 version was unwatchable, I’ve only subjected myself to less than two minutes of that film on several occasions when it’s been on TV. But I don’t blame the filmmakers as much as the original premise. Just not into that, more than normally pretentious, stuff.

  60. @Hippopotamusdrome

    While the technology used for producing Avatar was great, the film makes Sesame Street look sophisticated in every other way. It is an utterly simplistic Dances with Wolves; complete with buck-toothed string vest wearing rednecks sat at the front of a gazillion Dollar intergalactic corporation’s briefing so as to signal who the bad guys are.

  61. A123 says:
    @Kratoklastes

    The antagonist screwed up in the first volume. Why the dopey plan to get rid of Jessica and Paul? There are much more certain options that would pass Truthsayer inspection.

    The whole spice mining concept is a bit contrived. Dropping active shields onto the desert from ornithopters could lure worms away from harvesters.

    If Spice is required for space travel — How did humans space travel to Arrakis to discover Spice?

    At some point one has to let of the inconsistencies. Enjoy the fiction as fiction.

    PEACE 😇

  62. @Dumbo

    Imagining an entire other universe and communicating it to millions in such a visceral way is a magical endeavour.

    You may not appreciate the romantic process of creativity, but you might not use its potential antonym “autism” to describe it.

    • Replies: @Dumbo
  63. Dumbo says:
    @neutral

    Yes, science fiction is mostly a white male thing. I think it appeals to the technical male side.
    Women prefer fantasy and of course romance, and blacks… I have no idea.

    • Replies: @Sya Beerens
    , @Sulu
  64. Carlos22 says:
    @Max Payne

    Wasn’t aware of George Lucas ex involvement with Star Wars, you may be right about him thou looking at his film history apart from the original 3 Star Wars movies, Labyrinth was the only half decent one for a kids film.

    He also done Howard the Duck which sank like a stone in the early 80s.

  65. Sulu says:

    The fact that America has been convulsed for four months by people LARPing the same script is producing a great deal of fatigue for blacks and their white saviors. If COVID does not turn audiences away in droves, this blackface desecration of Herbert’s vision just might. In the past, I could overlook this kind of casting if other parts of the story were good. I don’t think I can do that anymore. This isn’t a game. Our race and civilization are dying, and the politicians, journalists, activists, and artists who are promoting the Great Replacement are simply evil. Denis Villeneuve has desecrated Dune. This movie deserves to bomb as badly as Disney’s Star Wars.

    This! I haven’t been in a movie theatre once in the last 20 years. I refuse to give a dime to the Jews of Hollywood. Their kill White people agenda which has been thinly veiled for years has been fully revealed in 2020. The last movie that came out that I wanted to see was Blade Runner 2049. I waited till it hit the torrents and now have a 35GB copy. The Hollywood Jews and those that suck their cocks for movie parts and the millions that go along with it can wither and die on the vine. With the covid crisis to help it this latest version of Dune will surely bomb.

    Sulu

    • Replies: @Sya Beerens
    , @Daniel Rich
  66. Talha says:
    @Kratoklastes

    picture Stilgar as being Arab-looking

    I actually don’t mind Stilgar being played by a European actor honestly (especially a good one). I just don’t understand why some people would object to him being played by an Arab or a very Arab-looking guy (Bardem certainly can pass for an Arab).

    Back in the day, when they wanted a white guy like Lawrence Olivier to play an Arab or black, they had him put on an accent and blackface to at least match it up (which I also don’t really mind, it is acting after all):

    they do stupid shit all the time, which kind of makes the whole ‘human thinking-machine’ schtick look lame.

    Yes, I can see that. I guess the counterpoint to this would be that they are made to be able to do calculations like a computer, but that doesn’t necessary prevent them from being free of things that would cloud their judgment like greed, lust, fear, etc.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Sya Beerens
  67. @Chet Roman

    I can’t see anything

    • Replies: @Sulu
  68. @Talha

    I’m “Arabic” and I couldn’t care less…..obviously

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Talha
  69. anon[327] • Disclaimer says:

    Dune is one of the most-anticipated movies of 2020.

    Can’t think of any movie (other than Dune for sci fi fans)
    for 2020 that is anticipated.

    The anticipation is for Swinewood to totally collapse
    and disappear like the rotted wood that it is.

    • Agree: Sulu
  70. Dumbo says:
    @Not Only Wrathful

    I actually like science fiction. But then I am sort of in the Aspie spectrum…

    That said, what I meant is more the excessive fanaticism by some, especially regarding Star Wars and Star Trek. Dune, I’m not so familiar with its universe, I only read the first book and watched that very 80s Lynch film with Sting.

  71. @Sulu

    “Kill white people agenda”? Who’s systematically killing brown people by the millions?

    • Replies: @Sulu
  72. @Priss Factor

    “Disney is already in the black with STAR WARS franchise.”

    And “in the black” is precisely the reason I won’t watch them!

  73. Talha says:
    @Sya Beerens

    Yeah, I mean, I’d much rather have the role done by a first-class actor who nails it (even if he is not from the same background, but made to look more like the character) rather than a half-baked actor that happens to be of the same background but makes a movie a terrible experience.

    It’s acting; these people are faking who they are for about one to two hours of your time and you are paying them to be who they are not and do it well.

    Peace.

    • Agree: Sya Beerens
  74. Sulu says:
    @Sya Beerens

    Who’s systematically killing brown people by the millions?

    In America it’s other brown people. Nothing hates a nigger like another nigger.

    As for what’s happening in your neck of the woods? I suspect I care as much about that as you care what’s happening here.

    Sulu

    • Agree: TKK
    • Replies: @Sya Beerens
    , @TKK
  75. Sulu says:
    @Sya Beerens

    I can’t see anything

    You just said more than you know.

    Sulu

  76. @neutral

    Yes geek culture can be corrosive, but science fiction is not simply an autism thing. It is no accident that science fiction is generally followed by whites (and East Asians to some degree), to envisage the future and build a better future is part of our race.

    More like egalitarian fantasy for Whites that don’t want to face the current reality.

    Most of these fantasies assume race is superficial and no longer an issue in the future as if the problem today is just with racist Whites not wanting to get along.

    The vast majority of Star Dork fans could use a trip to Haiti. Only by living in isolated burbs can they believe these fantasies where perfect gender/racial equality can finally exist without Bad Whites(tm) holding it back.

    • Replies: @Johnny Rico
    , @Anonymous
  77. @Alden

    It’s not that young people like blacks that much. It’s just that they’ve grown up with more blacks than Whites featured in their school books, TV shows and ADs to the point that they think half the population is black

    White people that live in White areas like Black people on TV.

    When White people actually live near Black people their opinion changes. It takes about 2 weeks max if they are in the same building or workplace.

    When White people live near Blacks and get attacked or lose equity their opinion really changes.

    The infuriating thing is how many Whites have lived near Blacks and yet knowingly choose the lie.

    This is the unspoken norm in many liberal areas:
    Well we can’t actually tell the truth about that. Would go against Christian/liberal beliefs even though it means we have to lie to society. Let’s just go out for coffee and not think about it.

    These are the same people that watch the Daily Show and laugh at jokes about conservatives not wanting to face reality.

    • Agree: Joseph Doaks
  78. TKK says:
    @Sulu

    Reading Recommendation:

    The Last Train to Zona Verde by Paul Theroux

    It will probably be banned soon. Too honest about the misery pit that is Sub Sahara Africa under black governance.

    • Thanks: Sulu
  79. A request for Mr. Lynch:

    Would you please review the 1969 version of “The Learning Tree”?

    This black-directed movie was made at a time when blacks were willing to engage in a little self reflection and concede that they have some issues to work out within their community. I contend that it could never be made today because it is a bit too honest in its depiction of black social pathologies.

    Thanks for your consideration.

  80. I found the Dune books almost unreadably boring, and I never watched any of the movies, and I’m not going to watch this one; but after reading this I’m tempted to. Anything ranted against by an Unz sewer dwelling racist “columnist” has to be not all bad.

  81. @Dumbo

    Villeneuve’s early films up to Sicario are outstanding. At one point he looked like he could be the next Kubrick. Incendies is worth it.

    But he has become a proficient technician who plays it safe. Comes with the territory now.

    • Replies: @Torontotraveller
  82. Hegar says:

    Herbert wrote five sequels, and after his death his son Brian Herbert, together with Kevin J. Anderson, wrote more than a dozen Dune universe books, none of which I have read.

    I have read the sequels. They are ridiculous. Extremely wooden, and Herbert has no grasp of what he is writing about, an empire spanning a large part of the galaxy. Instead it’s like ruling the empire of a million planets is like ruling a city.

    When he writes about planets, they have only a few places to live on. He can’t imagine an entire planet.

    Who make advanced technology? The planet called Ix. Another planet makes clones. There is one mysterious order, with one headquarter on a planet, so they are easily destroyed. There is one order of humans memorizing things as if they are computers. There is only one place for everything, in a galactic empire of a million planets.

    And the Arabs from one planet manage to invade every other planet and take control.

    Herbert should have just written a story about a continent on one fictional planet – that’s the format he could have handled.

    As for the sequels written by his son and Kevin Anderson – probably mostly by Anderson, with the son lending his name to them – they are supposedly based on “notes by Herbert which we found in a bank vault after his death”. Sure.

    They are not just sequels but prequels. I have read all of these except one of the sequels. Instead of being wooden, they are cardboard. As one reviewer put it, it seems more like the outline of a novel, than an actual novel.

    Characters appear and disappear with clear-cut but strangely empty descriptions of who they are. “Hey, I have an idea for a robot who can think, and who agrees to die so the humans can get away. It goes like this …. Now, how do we write that story?”
    “You just did.”

    Oddly, they unmake the final conclusion of the original novels. Which was that mankind should spread beyond the empire and become stronger thereby, by going by themselves in every direction. That was the point of the Tyrant who ruled for thousands of years, holding down mankind so that after his death many of them would flee. And they would never again want to be ruled by one person. But in Kevin’s sequels, the conclusion is that all humans should be in one empire: “As long as we work together nothing can stop us.”

    And wouldn’t you know it, there are space Jews in the sequels who have had to hide for thousands of years, because they have been harrassed and pogromed all this time. Some of the Jews become prominent on the ship of main characters that becomes the main focus for the last three books. One of the Jews is a rabbi, of course. (Though he is killed and replaced by a face-changing enemy, and he then sabotages the ship. This is the only part that breaks from the hallowed view of the Jews.)

  83. Rahan says:
    @Indiana Jack

    I don’t really remember any descriptions of the Fremen’s physical appearance in the novels, but in Children of Dune Paul’s half-Fremen children Leto II and Ghanima were described as having red hair, so it is doubtful that Herbert thought of the Fremen as non-White.

    Regardless of their appearance, the Fremen constituted a closed gene pool that had been isolated from the rest of humanity and breeding among themselves for thousands of years, so they doubtless would have had a racially uniform appearance. Portraying the Fremen as a mixed group with both white and black members is not realistic.

    Concerning the Fremen: their actual language in the book is Southern Slavic as in the basic Serb/Bulgarian/Macedonian/Montenegrin linguistic family tree.

    IN THE stillness of the cavern, Jessica heard the scrape of sand on rock as people moved, the distant bird calls that Stilgar had said were the signals of his watchmen.
    The great plastic hood-seals had been removed from the cave’s opening. She could see the march of evening shadows across the lip of rock in front of her and the open basin beyond. She sensed the daylight leaving them, sensed it in the dry heat as well as the shadows. She knew her trained awareness soon would give her what these Fremen obviously had—the ability to sense even the slightest change in the air’s moisture.
    How they had scurried to tighten their stillsuits when the cave was opened! Deep within the cave, someone began chanting:
    “Ima trava okolo!
    I korenja okolo!”

    Jessica translated silently: These are ashes! And these are roots!”
    The funeral ceremony for Jamis was beginning.

    Although why “trava” would be ashes, as opposed to grass, who knows. Languages mutate.

    So yeah. Not Arabic, not Jewish, not Turkish, not Greek, not what have you. If one is to be “faithful to the book” in terms of “racial realism”, based on their language, the Freemen should look like the South Slavs of today, plus a layer of what life in the desert does to your looks.

    As you say, it’s a closed gene pool, so perhaps a Negro or three somehow entered it millennia ago (or a Chinaman or three, etc.), but it’s doubtful they would have become super-breeders in comparison to others, since everyone in that group functions in a situation of high mortality and fertility. They’d remain a minority.

    So, in a nutshell, going by their language, the Fremen are the people you’d see in the villages around Belgrade, but with melange-changed eyes, and whatever additional changes living on Arrakis brings.

  84. @John Johnson

    Meh. Not really.

    All fiction and all literature is for all intents and purposes science fiction/fantasy in that the mudane operational details of real life are simply not translatable to anything worth reading.

    Scientically real life is unworkable as fiction. The nuts and bolts of Hemingway are not possible on this planet.

    Science fiction writers have dispensed with this pretense of being “realistic.”

    George Orwell was not a science fiction writer but 1984 is science fiction. So are many other indispensable classics. Like The Man in the High Castle or Roadside Picnic.

    • Replies: @John Johnson
  85. CAL2 says:
    @Priss Factor

    At best, Disney has broken even with Star Wars. The movies were extremely expensive to make and market. Add in that toy sales have cratered and Galaxy’s Edge bombed, the whole thing has been a disaster. You don’t spend billions to break even.

  86. @Fiendly Neighbourhood Terrorist

    If the books were almost unreadably boring, how many did you actually read?

    • Replies: @Johnny Rico
  87. Talha says:
    @Sya Beerens

    The old mother (who is basically the priestess of the tribe that takes in Paul and his mother) recalls the history narrative of the Fremen:
    “We are the people of Misr,” the old woman rasped. “Since our Sunni ancestors fled from Nilotic al-Ourouba, we have known flight and death. The young go on that our people shall not die.”

    As you (or any other Arab) know(s), “Misr” is Egypt.

    Nilotic is:
    “of or relating to the Nile River or the inhabitants of the Nile region.”
    https://www.dictionary.com/browse/nilotic

    Or, if referring to language (as tied to some ethnic groups):
    “The Nilotic language family is a member of the larger Nilo-Saharan phylum. The Nilo-Saharan phylum is one of at least four major language phyla found on the African continent. ”
    https://pages.uoregon.edu/dlpayne/Nilotic/NiloticFamily.htm

    Al-Ourouba is basically a derivative of “Arab” – and, according to the Hans Wehr lexicon, ‘Urooba means:
    “Arabism, Arabdom, the Arab idea, the Arab character”
    https://translate.google.com/#view=home&op=translate&sl=ar&tl=en&text=%D8%B9%D8%B1%D9%88%D8%A8%D8%A9

    Sunni is pretty obviously Sunni.

    More insights:
    https://dune.fandom.com/wiki/Nilotic_al-Ourouba

    My personal impression of the Fremen was much like in the concept art I posted. They always reminded me of the desert-dwelling Tuareg people who can come in various shades (depending on tribe and locale) – see below the MORE tag.

    Peace.

    [MORE]

    Some lighter skinned people from more northern Africa:https://secure.i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02645/man_2645026b.jpg

    Some more dark:
    And some that look not much different than other black people (these guys you find closer to Mali):

  88. Anonymous[339] • Disclaimer says:
    @John Johnson

    Most of these fantasies assume race is superficial and no longer an issue in the future as if the problem today is just with racist Whites not wanting to get along.

    Not all of them. The Warhammer 40K series assumes that race is highly significant within Homo Sapiens.

    But the most illuminating example is the Domination of Draka series, by S&M Stirling. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Domination

    Funny thing about this: Stirling is something of a liberal, a rather extreme one, yet the Domination’s social system is described in too much detail to have been abhorrent to Mr. Stirling. One gets the impression that he is describing the way that Liberals would rule, once they get the power. This contrast between professed love or compassion and protection with a revealed preference for bloody destruction is not that much of an anomaly. Consider how Pol Pot’s promise of bucolic idiocy for Cambodia turned into what are called the “killing fields”.

    Point: Don’t think that SF types are only harmless dreamers. They are interested in alternate societies, and, yes, you can find remnants of the 1950s ideals, but you can also find other things. If you want an example of highly regarded literature that could be turned into science fiction with only a few changes, consider Conrad’s “Heart of Darkness”.

  89. @Ian Smith

    You raise some interesting points.

    Many believe fiction is all made up from thin air, but obviously it is not, it is firmly grounded in somebody’s real or perceived world. Obviously all fiction is based on personal experiences or are written as analogs to actual events or even outright cover stories for other historical and or social events in a manner that the author might like them to play out.

    While Trevor Lynch was focused on providing a critique on the new Dune film, I am more interested to have a deeper analysis of what was behind Frank Hubert’s Dune trilogy, what inspired him and what real events in human history did he base the story on and what message was he trying to communicate to us??

    When I first read some of the Dune trilogy and enjoyed watching David Lynch’s 84 movie, it was obvious to me that the author of Dune must have lived or worked as an expatriate in North Africa or Saudi Arabia for a while. As what else could inspire him for such a deep desert fascination and back drop to the story.

    The association to the desert people of Arabia or North Africa is beyond argument. The Fremen may be play on the word Freemen, fighting to free the world from tyranny. Moadib is probably a Prophet Mohammed like figure, since he must lead his desert people for a fight, rather than a Jesus like figure, who refused to fight by sword. Trevor Lynch said categorically in posting #12 that the Dune story has nothing to do with Palestine, but why not. The Fremen are being run over by invaders and they are hiding in the desert and fighting back??

    Many Arabic words are used, in a Berberized pronunciation. Beni Jesserit or Beni is sons of a common tribal prefix in Arabia. The Spice (a Snuff like hallucinogenic substance) they are mining, might have been symbolic of crude oil which was very precious in the period when he wrote the book but also with a tie to the massive Cocaine and LSD drug use and wars of the time??

    We do not really know for sure what really or exactly inspired Frank Herbert to write the Dune series and where did he draw all his allegories from but definitely there is a strong political tie in to our time and much of human history. As the Dune story is about a major territorial and political conflict, resource control, good vs. evil, empires and domination of their victims and the dispossessed, leadership weaknesses and strengths, secret societies, cults or religions, etc. All befitting the turmoil of our modern age and maybe more so telling about our future.

    If anyone knows of a good and deep analysis of the Dune novels available online, please post the link or the article.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @A123
  90. Talha says:
    @Tommy Thompson

    Herbert actually gave plenty of interviews on the inspiration, purpose, etc. behind Dune. You can find many of these on Youtube. They are usually within 5 minutes and cover various themes; religious commentary, dangers of a charismatic cult-like leader, environmentalism, evolution/genetics, etc.

    Peace.

    • Thanks: Tommy Thompson
  91. Villaneuve actually answered the question as to why his Harkonnens are so pale in an interview. He stated that their homeworld, Giedi Prime is over-industrialized and choked with pollution (which I think is consistent with Herbert) therefore it’s people are pale from lack of sunlight. Of course, that gives the lefties the Green angle to hang onto instead of the race one.

  92. songbird says:

    I’m not deeply familiar with Herbert’s politics, but, generally, I think right-leaning sci-fi authors tend a bit towards the libertarian strain. This individualist thinking makes them susceptible to the prevailing intellectual orthodoxy regarding race. So, I think that helps explain the space Jews and Nazi Harkonnens (if that was his model).

    I was surprised to come across this line spoken by the protagonist of AE van Vogt’s The Voyage of the Space Beagle: “…Such words as ‘race’ and ‘blood’ are particularly meaningless…” I wonder if that was in the original story (that part being from 1943) or only put in as a fix-up to help make it a novel in 1950.

  93. Anon[112] • Disclaimer says:

    I watched Lynch’s Dune a few weeks ago and I paid careful attention to the race of the caste:

    -The only people I noticed of African descent were some of the generals in the emperor’s army, who I suppose are in the house of corinth.

    -The Harkonens aren’t just white, but seem to have a lot of orange hair and Irish-like features.

    -The Atreidies and Fremen both seemed white and I didn’t notice much pattern there, aside from that.

    —–

    One more aside, I wonder if the film will get a release in China? I have to imagine they’re not thrilled about a story where heroic desert people try to overthrow the government through an armed insurrection.

  94. A123 says:
    @Tommy Thompson

    Trevor Lynch said categorically in posting #12 that the Dune story has nothing to do with Palestine, but why not. The Fremen are being run over by invaders and they are hiding in the desert and fighting back??

    Is Dune the story of Jewish/Freman victims recovering their land from Muslim imperial
    colonists? Why not? They’re reclaiming their desert and fighting back.

    Dune also works as a Jewish David vs. Philistine Goliath story.
    ____

    The problem with extending fiction in this manner is authors, including Herbert, use pieces of real historical events to add realism to the work. However, it is very rare to 100% parallel a specific conflict unless one looks at the “Alt-History” sub-genre.

    Dune contains the Orange Catholic Bible that was supposed to be a synthesis and replacement for all other holy texts. This clearly places the events of Dune well away from any current Earth conflict.

    PEACE 😇
    _______

    https://dune.fandom.com/wiki/Orange_Catholic_Bible

  95. Their opinion changes? So they have no agency in the process. It is God’s will is what you are saying?

    Because this didn’t happen to me or a lot of people I know. I have felt that way at times but I do not feel that way now and I would like to think I play some role in choosing my opinion.

    People don’t have ideas. They choose them.

  96. @Jefferson Temple

    Haha. He said almost unreadably boring. So I am assuming he read almost all of them.

  97. gay troll says:

    I really thought Unz couldn’t lower the bar for publication on this website any lower. Yet lo, a review of a film preview. Is David Lynch the one Trevor named himself after? Ron, where do I send a submission?

  98. Jmaie says:
    @Ian Smith

    I always interpreted Paul as being a hybrid of T. E. Lawrence and Muhammad (Muad’ib!)

    Muhammad? Rather the Mahdi…

    https://islam.wikia.org/wiki/Mahdi

  99. botazefa says:
    @A123

    Freman society is divided between male tribe leaders (Naibs) and female religious leaders. Despite the mysticism that surrounds Liet, his role working with the Freman tribes needs authority on the secular side of the line.

    There’s no such dvision between the sexes in the Freman. A least I didn’t detect one. There’s a Reverend Mother singularity, but otherwise the men and women are warriors. Jessica even comments on this in the book about how all the Freman are a single minded coordinated people – militaristic. I’ll bet that gets washed out of the movie.

    I agree with you that replacing ‘jihad’ with ‘crusade’ is a bit telling. Hollywood doesn’t want to offend the Muslims, I guess.

    • Replies: @A123
    , @Anon7
  100. The good news is Hollywood is nearly finished as a profit making enterprise. The Emmys were greeted by record low viewer numbers and widespread derision, as an unlikeable black co-host humiliated a hapless Jimmy Kimmel, ordering him to clap for black nominees and join him in a “Black Lives Matter” chant. Oh, Jimmy! I hope your penance for wearing blackface is complete.

    It’s been noticed too, that the upcoming Bond film looks 90% less woke than initial reports suggested. Mocked by fans, it seems that 007 will not now be swapped out for a Black woman.

    I don’t even dislike black protagonists; I’m a huge fan of Tenet. But no-one likes to be force- fed an agenda; particularly when the agenda-setters despise you!

    Now for the bad news: Hollywood studios are increasingly being gobbled up by mega-corporations, who may be willing to maintain loss-making enterprises for the propaganda value. We’ll have to wait and see; the propaganda had better improve or the investment won’t be worth anything…

  101. botazefa says:
    @Talha

    Wait, what in the original books gave you the impression they were European-like people?

    They were frequently described as having blonde hair.

    They were never described, Freman in Dune, as having dark skin.

    • Replies: @Talha
  102. Talha says:
    @botazefa

    They were frequently described as having blonde hair.

    I don’t remember this, do you have a reference? I think I remember Kynes having brownish hair or something, but the most frequent color I remember was black.

    They were never described, Freman in Dune, as having dark skin.

    Nor were they described as having pink or white skin.

    Look, I like the story, it’s a good, captivating plot. If some people can only enjoy the story by imagining the Fremen as being Germanic or whatever, that’s cool. Personally, it doesn’t make much sense to me since, as I cited the words of their priestess (who had the shared genetic memory of her preceding priestess ancestors), it is stated their ancestors were “Sunnis” from “Misr” and place called “Nilotic al-Ourouba”, but you do you.

    It’s fiction/fantasy after all.

    Peace.

  103. Sulu says:
    @Fiendly Neighbourhood Terrorist

    If you are White and not a racist it means you are either very young or, if older, you simply don’t have the I.Q. to see through the bullshit that Jewish media is constantly broadcasting. Why do you think the Jews are desperate to make people believe there are no differences between races when it’s brutally obvious that there is? Because it’s one of the biggest lies there is. And by telling everyone there are no differences between the races it helps to keep the White race passive while we are being slowly eradicated.

    Do you really believe that a people that consider themselves to be “the chosen people” think there are no differences between races?
    Jews are the most racist people in the world. They believe in a master race alright because that is how they see themselves.

    Sulu

  104. @Ian Smith

    but if it’s meant to be an allegory for Israel and Palestine, then who are the Jews?

    Keep your eyes trained on the $andworm$…

    • LOL: Sulu
  105. The Baron’s nephew, Feyd Rautha, does not appear in this movie.

    Typical Hollywood. They left out the best character!

    There are no movies worth watching, much less paying for.

    • Replies: @MrVoid
  106. MrVoid says:
    @John Gruskos

    Typical Hollywood. They left out the best character!

    Not necessarily. This is the first of two movies (conditional upon this one succeeding at the box office). We can presume that Feyd is mentioned in the script and will make his appearance in the second movie. If the Feyd character has really been eliminated then the bounds of dramatic licence have been exceeded and this movie wouldn’t even be classifiable as a cinematic adaptation of the book. It would merely be a movie taking some limited inspiration from the Dune book.

  107. A123 says:
    @botazefa

    There’s no such dvision between the sexes in the Freman. A least I didn’t detect one. There’s a Reverend Mother singularity, but otherwise the men and women are warriors.

    That is not the way that I remember the book, but my last re-read was several years ago.

    I recall Dune talking about women working to maintain the Sietch while their husbands were out raiding. Women would not be sent on offense, however women would defend the Sietch from attack which implies preparation and a level of combat training.

    After Paul killed Jamis in ritual combat there was a specific claim to Jamis’s woman and obligations to his children. Not something that meshes with what today’s society would call equality of the sexes.

    All Fremen were hardened by the desert, still-suit discipline, and a lifetime of Spice physical enhancement. Any adult would be formidible, and rugged industrial tools are quite lethal in close combat. Children worked early and hard, and were thus perceived as incredibly dangerous in the Imperial mindset.

    It is not hard to envision Fremen women as lethal and simultaneously accept a division of the sexes in Fremen culture. Given the pragmatism of Fremen thinking, it is also easy to envision the Naib, if necessary, sending women with raids and ordering men to stay in Sietch “For the Good of the Tribe”.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @botazefa
  108. songbird says:
    @Talha

    I enjoyed the first book, years ago, but never got very far past it, so I’m not very invested in what the Fremen looked like. But still, even with the relative lack of Arabs in the US, it has always struck me as grossly political when blacks are picked to play them. And in ancient times, before the Arab conquest, they had far less African admixture. Not that I would personally call them white – certain individuals aside. (But how difficult is it to book a flight from Dubai?) Anyway, in the case of Zendaya, it seems clearly political, as she has been promoted as a love interest for a prominent white character, before.

    BTW, I’m a bit surprised that you’re into Dune – though I know you’ve mentioned it before. One of the things that turned me off from it was how it had a quasi-religious feel – the mythology is really elaborate and with some strong religious undertones and an historical arc. (LotR is kind of similar, if you dive deeply into it, but different in that you don’t have to). I don’t mean that it was meant to be subversive, or that Herbert was starting his own version of Scientology – I know he wasn’t. But I feel there’s an unintentional oddness to it. Like it accentuates the fact that it is a work of materialism.

    Like, why should I read this pseudo-philosophy when I could read Erasmus or Aquinas, etc? But I guess the story resonates more with Muslims than Catholics. For me, it’s harder to see the overall analogy. I dismiss it out of hand – the godlike ruler loses control of the fremen who worship him, and they, the dwellers of one desert planet, start a jihad to conquer the galaxy? Sounds too improbable – what would their population numbers look like? That’s how it gets framed in my mind.

    • Replies: @James O'Meara
    , @Talha
  109. @Sulu

    When I fork over hard earned bucks in a place, I want to hit the streets again, with something sustainable to prove for it.

    Not empty-handed and with a [jewish instigated] polluted mind.

    I’m with you.

    • Thanks: Sulu
  110. botazefa says:
    @A123

    I recall Dune talking about women working to maintain the Sietch while their husbands were out raiding. Women would not be sent on offense, however women would defend the Sietch from attack which implies preparation and a level of combat training.

    That’s a good point. At the end, too, I recall the Imperial prison forces being routed by the women, children, amd ‘old men’ in the South. The Emperor made a point of this in his final confrontation with Paul.

    I read it recently and didn’t notice the sex division, but you bring up some good points.

  111. TJM says: • Website

    A; Charlotte Rampling is still alive and acting? Who knew?
    B: In 1965 I was 13 years old, a voracious reader who loved Sci-Fi novels and short stories. I read the Dune trilogy and found it to be utter crap. Herbert is or was, a pretentious bore with crazy plot lines. I thought that then and still do.
    C: Why not just admit that “The spice” is oil found in the deserts of the Middle East on Earth and get it over with?

    • Replies: @Sulu
  112. botazefa says:
    @Talha

    I don’t have a specific reference. I did read it recently. Do you recall the frequent mention of the blue eyes in dark sockets? Dark eyes sockets wouldn’t be noteworthy in a dark skinned person. Also I recall sometimes Herbert mentioned dark blue stains on some Freman faces. Again, not noteworthy if the skin tone isn’t relatively pale.

    My take on it was that the Freman were white people adapted to harsh conditions of arid and hot living.

    Recall that the Reverend Mother priestess obtained her shared memories by drinking the life water and accepting the memories from the previous Reverend Mother. That Priestess was Jessica, Paul’s mother – not a born Freman.

    Like you, I have no dog in the race. It is unsettling to see Black people inserted into white roles; as unsettling as the toppling of statues. It don’t object to it on racist ground, but for artistic reasons.

    And, as you said, it is fiction. Who am I to complain!

    Cheets

    • Replies: @Talha
  113. Anonymous[130] • Disclaimer says:

    I’m going to hit several points in this reply, not all germane to the original post.

    *The language is undeniably mostly Arabic-based.
    *It’s not “Beni Gesserit” it’s “Bene Gesserit” which is Latin for “It will go well.”
    *How does the reviewer know that the mulatto must have a white father? Is the concept of a black man impregnating a whitess too scary?
    *It’s not about Palestine. The Fremen control and move freely about most of the planet. The ruling House is confined to one or more garrison cities.
    *As has already been mentioned “Harkonnen” looks Finnish, which is not a Germanic language, nor is it Slavic.
    *”Padishah” and “Irulan” are references to Persia.
    *Piter deVries => Peter deVries the author
    *”Yueh” is most likely a Chinese name and in Herbert’s day there was a prominent Chinese statesman named Wellington Koo.
    *”Dark eyes sockets wouldn’t be noteworthy in a dark skinned person.” You would benefit by Googling a picture of the late Stanley Crouch.
    *How does the reviewer know the Tleilaxu are Sufis?
    *Muad Dib: we are told in the first book what it means. Probably not a reference to Muhammad.

    • Replies: @Lin
    , @James O'Meara
  114. Talha says:
    @botazefa

    Dark eyes sockets wouldn’t be noteworthy in a dark skinned person.

    Not noteworthy, but certainly descriptive.

    Also I recall sometimes Herbert mentioned dark blue stains on some Freman faces. Again, not noteworthy if the skin tone isn’t relatively pale.

    See the pictures I posted of the Tuareg and their variant skin tones. They use blue stains all the time (mostly as tattoos on their women) – they show up just fine.

    My take on it was that the Freman were white people adapted to harsh conditions of arid and hot living.

    To each his own. Again, I personally saw them like the Tuareg who were quite varied in their appearance and colors.

    Recall that the Reverend Mother priestess obtained her shared memories by drinking the life water and accepting the memories from the previous Reverend Mother. That Priestess was Jessica, Paul’s mother – not a born Freman.

    It was the other way around. The old woman (Romallo) passed her memories to Lady Jessica because LJ was going to replace her. Stilgar’s tribe had to migrate in order to avoid Harkonnen reprisal and she was too old for “hajra”, so she passed on her memories in order for LJ to take over her role in the tribe.

    And, as you said, it is fiction. Who am I to complain!

    Totally agree. My biggest complaint is turning Kynes into a woman to be honest. I will be quite pissed if they do something like they did with Star Wars and have a couple of male Fremen gay married or something:

    The scene was cut from the ME release of the film…#winning!

    LGBT+ is the true test of woke plot penetration (pun somewhat not intended).

    Peace.

  115. Strange that you should omit such things as the anti thought background of the DUNE.

    Written as in a semitic, jewish-arabic world, with human bred saviour, with no mention of Jesus Christ and christianity, full of Koranic and Talmudic like quotes where there is no mentioning of the Decalogue, and the world in the grip of 100% psychopaths… I heard Herbert was a satanist and the book is amply the proof.

    I read your stuff. Having worked in this field I am glad you stick your head out.

  116. Why do they always got worms? I must of seen a hundred science fiction movies with dangerous worms worming around. Science fiction is like movies. All the world and universe to depict and they end up just doing the same narrow couple things over and over and over agin.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @songbird
  117. Haha. Greg loves Dune so much he had to review the new film prior to its release. Cute.

  118. Sulu says:
    @Dumbo

    It’s very rare to meet a black that reads, period. The few that do are usually part of the vanishingly small number that have achieved a certain degree of higher education and haunt the halls of academia.

    Time and again I have tried mentioning various authors to a few blacks that I have got to know somewhat. Almost without exception they look at you like you just asked them if they have been to Mars when you ask them if they are familiar with this or that author.

    Most blacks are barely literate and reading for pleasure is something that not only does not appeal to them but apparently does not occur to them. What can you expect from a race of people, a great number of which, have I.Q.’s in the 70’s? You might as well ask your dog to mow the lawn.

    Sulu

    • Replies: @Dumbo
    , @nature
  119. @Anonymous

    “One gets the impression that he is describing the way that Liberals would rule, once they get the power”

    Forget Star Trek etc. As someone (on UNZ?) recently said, Asimov’s Foundation trilogy is an unintentional glimpse into the mind of a SJW. On that basis alone it is invaluable. I think this was said a propos Krugman saying he was inspired by Hari Seldon.

  120. @A123

    “Is Dune the story of Jewish/Freman victims recovering their land from Muslim imperial
    colonists? Why not? They’re reclaiming their desert and fighting back.”

    Palestinians think they are reclaiming their land from invading Jews. Jews think they are reclaiming their “Promised Land” from, I don’t know, some kind of encroaching invaders over the last 2000 years. It would be clearer if they were reclaiming it from the Crusaders.

    In terms of consensus reality, the Big Lie is that the Jews are reclaiming Israel after being expelled by the Romans. In fact, most Jews already lived outside Palestine (Rome, Alexandria, etc.) by then. The “Palestinians” are likely descendants of the actual Jews living there in the 2nd century, who subsequently converted to Islam.

    • Thanks: Tommy Thompson
    • Replies: @Hapalong Cassidy
  121. Sulu says:
    @TJM

    I read the Dune trilogy and found it to be utter crap.

    I have to agree with that assessment of Dune. I am an only child that grew up on a farm in the 60’s and 70’s and there was little to do to occupy my time other than reading and hunting. I learned early on that I could avoid minor chores if my parents found me with my nose in a book as they both were proponents of education. This prompted me to become a voracious reader and I was the kind of kid that kept a flash hidden in my bedroom so I could continue to read after my bedtime. I read Asimov, Clark, Sturgeon, Dick, Burroughs, Twain, London and Heinlein, just to name a few. I became a huge Heinlein fan and have read all his stuff. Time Enough for Love is my favorite. He has to be my favorite S.F. author though I still believe Twain to be America’s greatest author and wit.

    For whatever reason I never tackled Dune and after seeing the movie done in the 80’s and the ones done in 2000 I decided I just had to read Herbert. I was expecting a real treat. Sadly, I was not impressed. I found it to be more fantasy than science and even the fantasy was poorly presented. If I may paraphrase Twain, “I was as disappointed as a Presbyterian in Hell.”

    Sulu

    • Replies: @TJM
  122. @A123

    “Dune also works as a Jewish David vs. Philistine Goliath story.”

    Christians don’t understand “David vs. Goliath.” Single combat was an accepted practice. What David did was approach “unarmed” but with his slingshot. He then used the slingshot to knock out Goliath from afar (being a Jewish coward; cf. the “knock out game”). Then he ran up and used Goliath’s sword to cut off his head.

    A coward and a cheater. But, by Jewish standards, a clever fellow. And Christians continue to buy this.

    • Replies: @Ian Smith
  123. Lin says:
    @Anonymous

    ‘Muad Dib’ is obviously a version of ‘Mahdi’—name of the coming Islamic messiah
    ‘Yueh’ is an early version of ‘Yuan’ or ‘Yuen’.

    Charlotte Rampling is an interesting actress(Her father was the lasting living 1936 Berlin Olympic gold medalist)and in her seventies,she still posted naked in recent movies. Ever watched ‘The Night Porter’?

    I read that the Fremen were more often compared to jews in exile than arab nomads.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  124. Talha says:
    @obwandiyag

    Why do they always got worms?

    Peace.

  125. @songbird

    “LotR is kind of similar, if you dive deeply into it, but different in that you don’t have to).”

    Interesting point. Dune likely appeals to people who no longer have a Christian background, and being aspergs, like assimilating a new worldview. I think that’s why I’ve always resisted it, beyond the first book; I get story, but I don’t need to invest in a new worldview.

  126. Talha says:
    @songbird

    grossly political when blacks are picked to play them.

    That may well be the case in the decision to use black actors in the current climate, but there are plenty of desert-dwelling blacks and black-Arab mixed people so it’s honestly not a stretch in the least. Now if they were throwing in Koreans or Eskimos or whatever…yeah – I’d be saying; c’mon now?!

    And in ancient times, before the Arab conquest, they had far less African admixture.

    There was black admixture for sure; probably the most famous pre-Islamic love story in Arabic is “Antar and Abla” which is about the real life Antarah bin Shaddad who was the offspring of his Arab father and an Abyssinian concubine:

    The first martyr in Islam at the Prophet’s time was Sumayyah bint Khayyat (ra), who was – by most accounts – Abyssinian slave who was given in marriage to her Arab husband. Many Companions (ra) were likewise of mixed descent to one degree or another.

    But certainly, the scope of it increased as the footprint of the Arabs themselves increased.

    Anyway, in the case of Zendaya, it seems clearly political, as she has been promoted as a love interest for a prominent white character, before.

    Definitely possible. Her replacing a historical redheaded white woman as a love interest was pretty inane; I didn’t watch that Spiderman movie, but my daughter did. Although, again, to me (at least) she does look quite like a Chani I would have imagined.

    it is a work of materialism.

    It absolutely is. The “spirituality” in Dune is all about spice-induced coupled with genetically-enhanced prescience. God (meaning the actual Creator-Sovereign of all) does not make a showing. Unless in the form of the deification done with the sandworms.

    I guess the story resonates more with Muslims than Catholics.

    Dune has been among the top 5 (or 10) books in most “best sci-fi novels” lists that I’ve ever come across so it has a pretty wide appeal. However, I do think a Muslim would be able to appreciate certain subtleties and aspects that others simply would not; for example, I knew that statement by Lady Jessica was a hadith the minute I came across it. Concepts like “Mahdi”, “jihad”, etc. also.

    It is interesting; in one interview, Frank Herbert mentions that his Arab friends always wonder why his book is considered science fiction since they always thought of it as religious commentary.

    the dwellers of one desert planet, start a jihad to conquer the galaxy? Sounds too improbable

    Certainly no easy task. The one thing to keep in mind is that Arrakis is the focal point of the galaxy due to it being the only planet where the spice (that basically all of the known universe depends on) is found. At the end of Dune, Paul is in charge of the entirety of the spice, has brought all interstellar travel and communication under his control by bringing the Spacing Guild to heel, has taken over all of the emperor’s holdings in the CHAOM corporation (thereby becoming the largest stakeholder) as well as his Sardaukar legions and military apparatus, and is the head of a new religious force with millions of fanatical fighters. And remember, certain planets were made examples out of by complete eradication to get the rest of the worlds to capitulate…so there is a bit of the Mongol Horde tactic in there.

    BTW, I’m a bit surprised that you’re into Dune

    This is obviously a matter of opinion as much as why one person prefers chocolate ice cream as opposed to rainbow sherbert. This may be long, so I’ll put it under the MORE tag so as not to take up too much real estate.

    Peace.

    [MORE]

    Some people probably hate Dune; and I can see why that would be, it’s not for everyone. It is a fairly unique piece of work and here is why I find it particularly interesting:
    1. Religion and the religious impulse is still quite force in humanity to be reckoned with, many other sci-fi books either don’t deal much with religion or it is an afterthought.
    2. I thought his ability to frame a future in which people are again fighting with swords and knives (and ballistic weapons and lasers have mostly become obsolete) was brilliant.
    3. It is a future in which machines aren’t at the forefront, man is – and he has deliberately put machines into the background as useful tools…basically it offers a future in which technopoly has been defeated.
    4. I thoroughly enjoined his creation of the unique Fremen culture built around survival on a complete desert planet and their culture and tradition built around the absolute necessity of preserving water at all costs.
    5. It is not some idealistic future; slavery is back, concubinage is back, etc.
    6. I especially liked the interplay between those who control politics, finance, religion, communication, etc. – the way the various houses have power in relation to the emperor, but how the CHAOM corporation and the Spacing Guild are the true brokers of power and how the arrangement is set up in order to maintain the status quo for the benefit of all stakeholders.
    7. His take on the concept of seeing-the-future (or prophethood) seemed unique to me; these individuals, like Paul, are some kind of genetic anomaly from other humans – they either have a mutation or are evolved to be able to see forward in time.
    8. A follow up to the above, he des a great job in showing how much of a burden knowing the future may be to someone trapped and unable to do anything to change an upcoming tragedy.
    9. His meta-narrative for other meta-narratives (like politics, religion, etc.) was quite entertaining and outside-the-box thinking for me. He is trying to explain these phenomena from the over-riding framework of natural selection, genetic adaptation and changes, etc. Underlying all of these events is this subconscious collective will of humanity to prevent genetic stagnation that happened in the scattered Imperium under the status quo (which is a greater threat to survival than potentially cataclysmic events that put humanity through the crucible and make it stronger). The Reverend Mother Gaius frames it:
    “The race knows its own mortality and it fears stagnation of its heredity. It’s in the bloodstream–the urge to mingle genetic strains without plan. The Imperium, the CHOAM Company, all the Great Houses, they are but bits of flotsam in the path of the flood.”
    10. He avoids superfluous aliens. Most other sci-fi narratives describe humanoid-type aliens, for which the implicit assumption is that humanoid-like evolution is convergent (if not concomitant) with higher levels of intelligence. Very few break with this idea (for instance Carpenter’s “The Thing” – which was based on an older novel). So why not just cut out these random humanoid-type aliens and just have divergent branches in humans (like guild navigators, face dancers, etc.).

    Anyway, just some of the things I personally found very interesting and distinct about the book.

    • Replies: @songbird
    , @MEH 0910
  127. @Anonymous

    “You would benefit by Googling a picture of the late Stanley Crouch.”

    I certainly knew the appearance of Stanley Crouch but did not know he had just died. Thanks.
    I hope his long delayed second volume on Charley Parker will eventually be published.

    https://counter-currents.com/2020/02/the-optimism-of-the-groove-stanley-crouchs-kansas-city-lightning/

  128. SOL says:
    @Indiana Jack

    Haven’t read the books for a while, but the red hair may be from Paul’s side, and through his mother Jessica, who is the daughter of Baron Harkonnen? I don’t know if Herbert meant for hair color of Paul’s children to have this genetic connection to the Baron; the Baron is described as having red-hair by Brian Herbert/Kevin Anderson, and I don’t know if this detail is something that they pulled from Frank Herbert’s notes.

  129. I always imagined the Fremens to be something like Arabs, even Tuaregs wouldn’t be completely off. So in a sense it was a kind of anti-white race war. Also, Dune had the disturbing (to me – but somehow I still like it, despite this flaw) reversal of sex roles (for tens of thousands of years), with female warriors and male househusbands. It’s completely nonsense, based on human biology, but it was there in the books already.

    Anyway, I don’t think we can expect much from such movie adaptations, because having token nonwhites is now a must.

  130. Dumbo says:
    @Sulu

    Yes… I have very little contact with blacks, so I wouldn’t know… But they don’t seem to be very interested in literature. Even in term of films, I don’t know what films they prefer… But I think gangster movies. They love Scarface. Maybe they like action movies too… Mexicans love action movies like Fast and Furious.

    That’s what funny about Hollywood wanting to put token blacks in their Oscar Best Movie dramas… I doubt many blacks are interested in most of those films anyway… Much less in real art movies, which Hollywood doesn’t know how to do anyway… This is really only done for Goodwhites, they are the ones who care about “diverse casting”, not blacks.

    • Thanks: Sulu
  131. vot tak says:

    I read dune decades ago, around the time the first film based on it was released. Wasn’t impressed by the book, thought it rather lame. The film, the same. Now hollywood is doing a remake. Whoopty-do, that is pretty much what hollywood does. Endless remakes of older films. It’s actually rare that a hollywood film is worth watching, almost all of their output is lowest common denominator garbage. Propaganda and “all about the benjamin’s, baby” fairly describes the vast majority of hollywood films.

    As unimpressed I am with hollywood’s polemics, I’m even less impressed by the parasites generously termed “film critics”. These are mostly wannabees who failed to make it in the industry, who found their niche being “experts” on film. The mainstream lot are simply overblown egoes who are part of the advertising business. The small fry, who don’t have their own network television shows to pontificate from are likewise no better. Both sorts of the parasite seek to influence their audiences with their narrow minded biases (almost always right wing, as befits a parasite) and awe them with their bloated egos, rather than provide useful commentary a person could use to determine whether it was worth their time to see a particular film.

  132. @Talha

    Look, I like the story, it’s a good, captivating plot. If some people can only enjoy the story by imagining the Fremen as being Germanic or whatever, that’s cool. Personally, it doesn’t make much sense to me since, as I cited the words of their priestess (who had the shared genetic memory of her preceding priestess ancestors), it is stated their ancestors were “Sunnis” from “Misr” and place called “Nilotic al-Ourouba”, but you do you.

    It’s fiction/fantasy after all.

    Peace.

    We are in agreement on the central issue: the Fremen were not ever described as Negroid.

  133. vot tak says:
    @Trevor Lynch

    “Likening the Harkonnens to the Nazis is absurd”

    The critic knows more about the writer’s intent than the writer himself does. LOL.

  134. TJM says: • Website
    @Sulu

    Dear Sulu, We could be twins. I grew up in Nebraska in the sixties and seventies. Same situation of boredom, reading, flashlight at night, etc.. I agree with you on Twain as the greatest American author. If I had to name my favorite Science Fiction author, I’d pick Ray Bradbury. Sure he could be a bit pedantic, but he had an optimism about him. Asimov had “Nightfall”. I wasn’t too fond of his robot trilogy. Heinlein is of course excellent. I also liked Lovejoy a lot. And don’t forget Mr. Dick who was perhaps the most prescient of them all.
    Thanks so much for your reply.
    TJM

    • Replies: @Sulu
  135. nature says:
    @Sulu

    And yet this. 🙂
    But no hopes up, it is indeed just that, an exception from the rule.

    A large SciFi/Fantasy channel by a black guy.

  136. songbird says:
    @obwandiyag

    Interestingly, sandworms are part of Mongolian mythology, though I understand they are different from the ones in Dune. Still scary. Some assert that the really exist.

  137. Anonymous[401] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sya Beerens

    Fiction? So is Equality, Covid-19, and the Holycaust.

    Your point?

    • LOL: Sulu
    • Replies: @Sya Beerens
  138. @Anonymous

    Point: Don’t think that SF types are only harmless dreamers. They are interested in alternate societies, and, yes, you can find remnants of the 1950s ideals, but you can also find other things.

    Such types would be well outside the mainstream.

    Every single office has a White 12 year old in a man’s body that has Star Dork toys on his desk.

    These are the same people that can’t admit to themselves that the recent sequels were crap. They will happily buy anything that Disney sells them. A SW sequel could have a White women gang raped and they would stand in line for it.

    They go to conventions where not hundreds but thousands of Whites get together and talk about aliens and worlds that don’t exist. These people absolutely love race denial as part of their fantasy. They see themselves as inclusive and futuristic with the underlying assumption that the majority of Whites today are just backwards and holding back humanity.

    We have major problems and thousands of White men are running around in costumes playing space ranger.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Anonymous
  139. songbird says:
    @Talha

    I guess the Tocharians would be an example of desert whites, and Mongolians (at least some) of desert Mongols. (Mongolians actually have their own version of sandworms). Though, as I said, I’m not invested in the appearance of the Fremen, and would probably cast them as Arabs myself, were it practical.

    I think what appealed to me in Dune was the space feudalism. I don’t necessarily know if it was feudalism itself or the familial and traditional aspect of feudalism. I like the idea of families having long histories and traditions – it’s an idea I’d like to see come back to the West. Perhaps without the serfdom, though I do like the idea of hierarchy and duty. Who knows? Maybe, I am an incipient monarchist, though the Emperor was kind of a villain.

    Don’t know if you ever read Hal Clement, but I think he put more thought into his aliens than was generally the case. Some were good guys, which was kind of an inversion of tropes, at the time, and they were often very different in some way. I’d also be curious, if you ever read The Mote in God’s Eye. I think it is interesting because it touches on the question of differential fertility.

    • Replies: @Talha
  140. @Johnny Rico

    Scientically real life is unworkable as fiction. The nuts and bolts of Hemingway are not possible on this planet.

    That doesn’t make any sense at all. Which Hemingway book are you talking about?

    Farewell to Arms is a realistic take on WW1. The Sun also Rises is about Americans in Paris traveling to Spain.

    Hemingway didn’t write about aboriginals piloting lightspeed spacecraft and battling fictional authoritarian Whites. Are we really not supposed to notice that constant theme in so much Sci-Fi? The Bad White(tm) antagonist that is militaristic and intelligent? This is all fantasy for Whites that don’t have the guts to face the reality of our situation. It’s this fantasy that Bad Whites(tm) hold everyone back.

  141. Anonymous[401] • Disclaimer says:

    Will we now see…per SWJs/feminists/BLMers…bazillions of women being butchered equally in this version?

  142. @James O'Meara

    And of course the Jews claimed Israel from the Canaanites who were there first. The
    Jews believed that it was their original homeland, based on the story of Joseph. I think it’s more likely they were Egyptian monotheists whose religion evolved from Akhenaten’s sun-worshiping faith.

    • Agree: MrVoid
  143. Talha says:
    @songbird

    I think what appealed to me in Dune was the space feudalism.

    Ah yes, that too (and it was pretty neat they were back to swords/daggers and intrigues of assassination via poisons, etc.). It really gave it that feudalism ambience, and probably one reason why so much of the concept art for Dune is distinguished (from other sci-fi universes) by looking like the Victorian era or some sort of steampunk.

    In fact, that is one of the aspects I wish Herbert had expanded upon more instead of just sticking to Corrino, Harkonnen and Atriedes. He went more with expanding around the various power-holding groups/planets; Ixians, Tlielaxu, Bene Gesserit, etc.

    All in all, I really liked the first three novels. Wasn’t too impressed by the whole sandworm God-Emperor thing and found the rest of the books to be interesting and somewhat entertaining, but nothing I would recommend to anyone else like I have the first three.

    I’d also be curious, if you ever read The Mote in God’s Eye.

    I have not. But it sounds interesting. I’ll see if my library has a copy. Thanks for the recommendation.

    But I agree with what someone else wrote here; my favorite sci-fi writer was easily Bradbury.

    Peace.

  144. Talha says:
    @John Johnson

    We have major problems and thousands of White men are running around in costumes playing space ranger.

    Whites are also over-represented running around in costumes playing just plain rangers, and paladins and elves, etc.:

    Maybe this is just something that happens when a society achieves a lot of success and goes soft and has a lot of time to spare.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @John Johnson
    , @MEH 0910
  145. IronForge says:
    @Ian Smith

    You’ll find out by reading Herbert’s Dune Sequels.

  146. Sulu says:
    @TJM

    It was Kentucky for me. Big sprawling farm with cattle and horses and way too many chores for an only child to do. My mom sent off for some reading kit through the mail and taught me to read when I was 4. Looking back on it I am amazed in those pre internet days she had the presence of mind to realize how much it would help me by being taught to read at such an early age. But she was a well read and educated woman and she put me on the path to success quite early. I ended up with two Bachelor’s degrees, one of which is in science, as well as a pilot’s license.

    I remember when I got to the first grade at 6 that I was amazed that most kids couldn’t even read, but back in those days most people had large families so I guess they figured teaching jr to read was what school was for. Some of my earliest literary memories of my mother was when I was young, perhaps 6 or 7 and home in bed sick. She would spend hours reading Poe and London to me.

    I was never a huge fan of Bradbury and while I read Asimov I found that I liked his non-fiction better than his fiction. Also, I believe I mentioned Dick in my list of authors. Many of his stories seem to center around a character that believes himself to be in one reality and then starts to find clues that leads him to the conclusion that the reality he is currently experiencing is not the real one at all.

    Dick is also the first author that I know of that was aware of the computer simulation hypotheses of reality. There is a youtube video of him in the mid to late 70’s telling an audience that he thinks we are living in a computer simulation and the only time we have a clue to it is when the computer experiences a glitch. You can tell by the reaction of his audience that most people must consider him mad to postulate such a conclusion about reality. Prescient indeed! I now accept the computer simulation hypothesis of reality as the one most likely to be true. Dick was 40 or 50 years ahead of his time. Geniuses usually are.

    Sulu

    • Replies: @TJM
  147. TJM says: • Website
    @Sulu

    Dear Sulu,
    What a wonderful mother you had/have. My mother also taught me to read at an early age. I started with the catechism (Catholic), then onto comic books, Hardy Boys, Tom Swift, Sherlock Holmes, Agatha Christie, and WWII books. Then I discovered Sci-Fi.
    Yes, you did mention Dick. My mistake. And yes, I agree with his computer simulation thesis. Deja vu’s are glitches, just like in the Matrix. Also those feelings of impending doom we get. Dick was a genius for sure.
    I meant “Lovecraft” not “Lovejoy” of course.
    And you are a pilot. Ha! I spent 25 years as a seaplane mechanic. I had plenty of adventures doing that. Another similarity between us in the computer simulation.
    I’ve never been to Kentucky. I did have a girlfriend in Seattle. She came from old money and every year she would get a big check from a family trust based in Kentucky. Back in the day the family had a plantation and owned slaves. Now it’s a big shot family in Seattle (media, law, and banking).
    Take care and keep reading.
    Tim

    • Replies: @Sulu
  148. @Anonymous

    What’s your point? Everything on TV is fictional!

    Every reaction to this is farcical.

    Period.

  149. Anonymous[339] • Disclaimer says:
    @John Johnson

    We have major problems and thousands of White men are running around in costumes playing space ranger.

    Well, of course you’re right. After J. W. Campell (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_W._Campbell) died (heart failure), the Golden Age ended, at least in the magazines. Most of SF was taken over by hard left and what amounted to controlled opposition. It’s true that “military SF” developed after JWC’s demise, but unlike pre JWC’s death, the people in them were always embedded in an organization, didn’t have much freedom of action, and the stories were told as horror fiction. A few writers (Vinge, for example) could still tell a good and fairly significant story, but they became the minority.

    So, for most of the people in SF, it’s either about enforcing conformity on people, or perhaps pretending that they really could live a life of heroism, or a life that was significant to other people.

    Why put so much effort into it? I’ll list two reasons:
    a) Comradship, social interaction unavailable in real life.
    b) A real life limited as described in https://americanmind.org/essays/revolution-2020/ coupled with a future as described in https://www.zerohedge.com/economics/lessons-inflation-past

    So I’d say that the LARPing would be a form of therapy, a lot more interesting and less destructive and taking drugs. As the song says, “I’ve always been crazy, but it’s kept me from going insane.”

    I can see why you’re upset, but remember that when a tipping point is reached, sudden changes become possible. The “revolution-220” post suggests that something like that is going to happen, the “lessons-inflation-past” suggests that we have about two years before the Feds find themselves unable to meet payroll, and remember that the Draka / The Domination books were favorably received.

    • Replies: @John Johnson
  150. You can be genius, superior to all and act like whiny delusional drama queen too. Apparently…

    So which genius created “global warming” “overpopulation” “terrorism” and “white genocide”?

    To name a few…

  151. @Priss Factor

    Priss, have you ever written any screenplays, and if not, why not? You know movies as well as anybody and understand both their technical and thematic aspects, you have a clear sense of film as both an art form and as entertainment (and when it succeeds as either), you are a student of human psychology and motivation, you have talked about movies that should be made that aren’t being made, and you love to write.

  152. tru3 says:
    @Happy Tapir

    “At least they didn’t cast a trump look alike as baron Harkonnen. “

    Funny you should say that, because in Lynch’s version, the Harkonnens all had red hair.

    Orange man REALLY bad!

  153. @Talha

    Whites are also over-represented running around in costumes playing just plain rangers, and paladins and elves, etc.:

    Yes we have these dorks at my local park.

    They should be out battling antifa.

  154. Sulu says:
    @TJM

    Thanks, I was raised Catholic too. Strange that we have so much in common. As a matter of fact flying led me directly to the simulation hypothesis and I had an incident way back in the early nineties that made me first suspect we are all in a sim. But that would take a few paragraphs to explain.

    Sulu

    • Replies: @TJM
  155. @Anonymous

    I can see why you’re upset, but remember that when a tipping point is reached, sudden changes become possible.

    I’m not upset, I just think it is pathetic.

    I have seen too many White males living in some type of fantasy world.

    Nothing wrong with a book or movie once in a while.

    But too many Whites turn it into a lifestyle and never marry or have children. They don’t want to take a risk trying to find a mate and just bury themselves in a fictional world. They marry themselves to these corny Hollywood franchises that exist entirely for cash and defend them like an abused spouse.

    I have tried to help some of these guys by getting them out and taking them shooting and they never want it.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  156. Ian Smith says:
    @James O'Meara

    The Philistines were likely the same as the ‘Sea Peoples’ that caused so much trouble during the Bronze Age collapse, like archaic Aegean Vikings. The only time Europeans show up in the Bible, it’s as villains (Philistines, Antiochus, Romans.) So much for Christianity being the religion of the White man!

  157. Anonymous[339] • Disclaimer says:
    @John Johnson

    I have tried to help some of these guys by getting them out and taking them shooting and they never want it.

    Stockholm syndrome. Attempting to conform to a society that won’t have them by conforming to something that society clearly approves of (since society spent time making that something) and at least seems to have comprehensible rules.

    I’ve known several people like that who weren’t even LARPers. They just would not have children, in some cases even after they married.

    I remember a lab assigment I had, many years ago at a Northeast hell school, engineering — it was entitled “if you move, you get hit”. It seemed to epitomize the areas approach to things, and I suppose that it now includes the entire US.

    In my part of the country (in the Appalachians) we’re getting lots of White refugees from the coasts, usually men. Quite a few of them have little or no money and live on unimproved land, no utility hookups, no structures on their property, but they have kids. They just found California or wherever uninhabitable. One complaint is the “when did it become not OK to be a guy?” question — only non-heterosexuals had any social standing.

    Take a look at the links in my original post in this series. They give a pretty decent estimate of the long term past and the immediate future of the US. You might find this of interest also: https://www.zerohedge.com/political/revolution-2020-how-did-we-get-here-and-how-will-it-end

    These are difficult times and are indirectly producing both physical and psychological casualties.

  158. MEH 0910 says:
    @Talha

    Her replacing a historical redheaded white woman as a love interest was pretty inane; I didn’t watch that Spiderman movie, but my daughter did.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spider-Man:_Homecoming#Cast

    Zendaya as Michelle “MJ” Jones:
    ******
    The character is not a direct adaptation of Mary Jane Watson, but was given the initials “MJ” to “remind you of that dynamic”,[29] with the writers “plant[ing] the seeds in this movie” for comparisons to Watson, but also making her “wholly different”.[30] Feige added that Michelle is “not obsessed with” Parker like Watson is at times in the comics, “she’s just observant”.[29]

    • Thanks: Talha
  159. MEH 0910 says:
    @Indiana Jack

    The twins’ mother Chani was three-quarters Freman and had reddish hair:

    https://dune.fandom.com/wiki/Chani_Kynes

    Chani was born on Arrakis, the daughter of the half-Fremen planetologist Liet Kynes and his full-Fremen wife.

    ******
    Chani was a young woman, dark skinned, very skinny with an elfin face with big eyes all blue like black pits with no white in them. She had long tawny-red hair.

  160. TJM says: • Website
    @Sulu

    Hi Sulu,
    Well, if you want to communicate further (no pressure at all); my email is the name of a famous country western singer who wears a black hat (last name first) followed by the first three numbers (not 0) and then at the ancient aol site. My last name is also that of a silly cartoon character with a sidekick named Babba-Louie.
    All the best,
    TJM

    • Replies: @Sulu
  161. MEH 0910 says:
    @Talha

    https://dune.fandom.com/wiki/Fremen#Museum_Fremen

    Museum Fremen

    From the time of the God-Emperor onwards the cultural impact of the Fremen ebbed, thanks in no small part to the terraforming of Arrakis. By the time of the God Emperor’s death, the Fremen were relegated to being no more than ‘museum’ pieces, their ancient and purposeful traditions diluted into honorary forms without meaning.

    • Replies: @Talha
  162. Paul has been cast as the next Jewish messiah. Seemed a bit odd. Fremen as BLM. Ahh now I see. They were definitely Jihad Arabic in book. This is a classic message inversion. I suppose the book is about religious war.

    The spice is usury. Melange warped guild navigators as Globalists.

    Hollywood are guaranteed to disappoint. Hollywood are the meddling Bene Jesuits.

    The film short seemed fair to look at but feels foul.

  163. Sulu says:
    @TJM

    Thanks for the invite and the minor I.Q. test but considering some of the opinions I have voiced on this site I don’t think it would be wise for me to lose my anonymity. Please don’t be offended.

    Sulu

    • Replies: @TJM
  164. Talha says:
    @MEH 0910

    One of the reasons why I was not very interested in the later Dune books. The groups it started focusing in on were not as interesting; Fish Speakers, Honored Matres, etc. The overuse of gholas and at some point women just take over the known universe. Again, it was a bit entertaining just to see where he was going with it all, but I felt it had jumped the shark precisely with God Emperor of Dune.

    For the follow up books from his son, I preferred to borrow audio book versions from the library and just listen to them in the car on the way to and from work. I think if I had spent the time to sit an read the books, I would have regretted it.

    Peace.

  165. TJM says:
    @Sulu

    Hi Sulu,
    No worries. Safe travels.
    TJM

  166. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Lin

    Ever watched ‘The Night Porter’?

    Now that would be an interesting movie to see reviewed. I’m not sure if the responses would be interesting in a good way way or a bad way but they’d be interesting.

  167. Cheap to make a movie. No need to keep looking to Hollywood.

    And LA JETEE showed another way to tell a story.

    • Replies: @Presocratic
    , @dfordoom
  168. @Priss Factor

    Do you think Iranian and other foreign film-makers are tackling themes that Hollywood will not? Did you see The Attack, a 2014 film directed by Ziad Doueiri, who is Lebanese? I thought it was a compelling dramatization of the Israeli-Palestinian confict. The scenes in the Occupied Territories conveyed the atmosphere there in a way I have never seen done before.

  169. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Priss Factor

    Cheap to make a movie. No need to keep looking to Hollywood.

    It’s always been cheap to make movies. The problem for low-budget (and micro-budget) movies has always been distribution. It still is. You can make a movie for next to nothing but no-one will ever even know that your movie exists.

    In the past there were alternative distribution arrangements for low-budget movies made outside the Hollywood system – there were things like the states rights distribution system which bypassed the Hollywood distribution system altogether. You could get your low-budget movie into independent cinemas, grindhouse cinemas, art-house cinemas, drive-ins, etc. There were alternative distribution arrangements in other countries as well.

    That all pretty much came to an end with the demise of drive-ins and with the home video explosion. For a while there was a market for direct-to-video movies but they seem to have largely disappeared. Now with streaming taking over distribution is firmly in the hands of large corporations (like Netflix and amazon). Sure you can upload your zero-budget movie to Youtube, but that’s owned by Google. Your movie is not going to be seen by anybody if those mega-corporations don’t want it seen.

  170. vox4non says:

    My biggest bone to pick with this new remake is that Liet Kynes is now going to be portrayed as a woman. Liet Kynes is supposed be the father of Chani, and in turn, the grandfather of the future emperor Leto II.

    https://dune.fandom.com/wiki/Liet_Kynes

    Don’t care much about the race that they want to portray but changing the gender of such an important figure smacks of misandry.

  171. @Talha

    I’ve always felt to an extent that the Fremen were Arabic as well – the terms used and the language fits much too well. Its very hard to imagine them as black, though.

    • Replies: @Talha
  172. Ian Smith says:
    @Happy Tapir

    The spice is required for interstellar travel. Disrupting spice production wrecks the economy of the Dune universe on a grander scale than the 1973 oil embargo.

    • Replies: @Talha
  173. I love Mr Lynch’s film reviews. They have given me a renewed interest in film. I especially liked his review of Quizz Show, which made the film fantastically rewarding when I watched it after.
    I’m hoping to one day read Lynch on Forrest Gump, a film that, I confess, I had thought genuinely conservative when it came out (1992, I think), but that now I see as a genuine neocon operation: Gump is the perfect Goy seen by Jews: don’t think, don’t ask questions, just run. And if you are asked about your experience at war, say, “It was nice!” The whole filmography of Robert Zemeckis is worthy of interest, from that angle.
    I add one more in the wishbox: I would love to read something about Clint Eastwood and his (pathetic) evolution. And more on Kubrick.

  174. @Laurent Guyénot

    As a fan of Clint Eastwood and your columns at Unz, I’d love to know why you think his evolution is pathetic?

    Admittedly, some of his movies are mediocre but he still has it to some degree. Last year’s Richard Jewell was very good.

    • Replies: @Laurent Guyénot
  175. Talha says:
    @Ian Smith

    Not only that, the spice is also prolongs one’s age (which is why elite people – those who can afford it – use it) and it is also addictive. A very deadly combo.

    Imagine, say, heroin being the substance running your car, planes, trucks, ships and adding also 30 years to one’s life and allows a certain segment of the population to have true dreams about future events…and it is only produced by a plant that can only grow in Hawaii.

    I have to give it to Herbert, he thought a lot of things through (not everything) when making the focal point of the story of the known galaxy one unique desert planet with no absolutely no other resources.

    Note: For those wondering how people travelled prior to the discovery of the spice on Arrakis; it was done by normal navigation by complex computers that could plot out a course many light years way that would avoid collisions with intervening objects (like planets, suns, etc.) during hyperspace travel. So human beings were already all over the galaxy. It was the Butlerian Jihad against thinking machines and computers that necessitated (certain) humans – spacing guild – using the spice to make up for that gap in technology.

    Peace.

    • Thanks: Ian Smith
    • Replies: @dfordoom
  176. Talha says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    I certainly agree that nothing in Herbert’s book makes it seem that we are dealing with black people (as we would easily recognize) in any of the characters that show up. However, I also don’t think it is far-fetched that a people (who have remained tribal) whose ancestry is purported (by their own keepers of their historical narrative) to come from the “Sunni” people of “Misr” (Egypt) from a region that is called “Nilotic al-Ourorba” (Nile Arabdom). If we are to assume these terms have some significance at all…then we are dealing with a (Sunni) Muslim population out of Egypt around the Nile valley (or river system).

    If we say these terms don’t really mean anything that we can consider analogous to our understanding and can be arbitrarily defined, then the entire discussion collapses and they might as well be people from the Amazon rainforest or from the Mekong River.

    I’ve been to Egypt and, knowing its history (as a valuable geo-political pivot point), it has a significant variety of phenotypes in its population (depending on where one is looking). I met people who looked straight up white; freckles, had light colored eyes, blond-to-brown hair, etc. These people were full on Egyptians. Now maybe they were descended from various white-ruling elite of Egypt over the centuries; Albanians, Circassians, etc.

    Masaman (whose channel I would highly recommend), did a great piece on a lost tribe of Hungarians who settled many centuries ago in Egypt (under Ottoman rule) and married into and were ansorbed by the local population:

    And if you go to the south, which is called “Upper Egypt” since those are the highlands from which the Nile flows down to the lower Mediterraenan, you find plenty of people that look fairly black since that is historical Nubia.

    Which is why a nation like Egypt can have a leader that looks like this:
    Followed by one that looks like this:
    So I could totally see a few tribes of Fremen (across the entire planet) being black or looking close since all of these people are part of the Sunnis of Egypt of the Nile River network. But once you get too far south you get the very tall and jet-black Nilotic people who are generally not considered neither Muslim nor part of Egypt nor part of anything “Arab” as far as culture (again, Masaman):

    However, what seems really strange is to throw black-looking people and Mediterranean-looking people into the same tribe (Sietch Tabr in Dune) and expecting people to buy that. That just seems silly and only works if you disregard what tribe means.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @dimples
  177. @Priss Factor

    The newest TERMINATOR didn’t strike me as anti-white. Just hilariously stupid.

    I found it exceedingly boring, as bad as a Daniel Craig film. I have tried watching it 3 times, each time I fell asleep within 20 minutes.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  178. Anon7 says:
    @botazefa

    All of the fighters in Frank Herbert’s novel Dune are men. The women are fierce, no doubt, but they take care of the children and work in the sietches while the men fight, gather spice to bribe the Spacing Guild, etc.

  179. @Jefferson Temple

    Hi, well, I admit I have mixed feelings about Eastwood. Sniper was a shock, and I thought he had signed a pact with the Devil. I find his other recent films (Grand Torino, the Mule, Changeling, can’t think of another one that I have seen) not so bad, but rather shallow, at least not really worth the time, from my viewpoint. But I’m interested to hear another viewpoint.

    • Replies: @Jefferson Temple
  180. dimples says:
    @Talha

    Yes but you forgot about the Multi Cult and Diversity back in the 20th Century.

    • Replies: @Talha
  181. Talha says:
    @dimples

    If they’re still operating as tribes many centuries later, trust me, they completely bypassed all that nonsense. Breaking down tribes is the initial step you need to take before you can progress in that direction.

    Peace.

  182. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Chris Mallory

    I found it exceedingly boring, as bad as a Daniel Craig film.

    Impossible. Nothing could be as dull as a Daniel Craig film.

  183. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Talha

    I have to give it to Herbert, he thought a lot of things through (not everything) when making the focal point of the story of the known galaxy one unique desert planet with no absolutely no other resources.

    I can see I’m going to have to re-read the book now.

  184. @Laurent Guyénot

    Hello. Thanks for taking an interest. I think the best thing about Eastwood is that he tells the stories he wants to tell. I am not an able movie critic but I will try, briefly, to defend his choices.

    Richard Jewell and Changeling had good casting and were based on true stories. Both were warnings to remember that government officials can and will wreck the life of any mundane citizen for any convenient reason and with relative impunity.

    With American Sniper, he told the story of Chris Kyle, a guy referred to as the Legend. I believe the personal story of the man’s progression from enthusiastic enlistee to PTSD suffering warrior to murdered veteran was just too good for Clint to pass up. And, as you could tell from the popularity of it, it was a story a lot of Americans wanted to see. I didn’t see anything that suggested it was meant to be a political statement about the overall war.

    Gran Torino was brilliant. It was a story arc about another old veteran, prejudiced but not evil, coming to terms with the fact that his old white neighborhood in formerly affluent Detroit was gone forever. That’s a theme that resonated with US Whites from coast to coast.. Maybe the racial epithets turned some people off but they were realistic. Who else could have gotten away with that? It was only 12 years ago but it couldn’t be made today. It couldn’t have been made then by anyone with less stature than Dirty Harry.

    Some other movies are just there. The Mule, Trouble with the Curve, and Sully were just watchable and that’s all. Still, Sully was another tale that wanted to highlight real heroism.

    I didn’t watch the one about the 3 Americans taking down the train terrorists in France. Having the actual guys play themselves seemed too gimmicky. But again, real life heroes.

    To me, Eastwood is an American treasure and one day soon I’m going to miss him.

    Bon Nuit.

  185. @meamjojo

    Haven’t read Dune yet, but I will now. The ’84 movie bored me as a kid. As for blacks in the media, I remember Orlando Patterson, a sociologist at Harvard I believe, said that when he would meet with foreign guests of the university, they were shocked that the USA isn’t 50% black, considering how much they’re represented in American media. On a side note, if all you watched were shows like COPS, Live PD, the First 48, Homicide Hunter, etc. you’d come away thinking the USA is 75% black.

  186. Voltara says:
    @Tusk

    Yes, I agree. To me Dune was about imperial politics and mysticism. Through superb casting and claustrophobic set design the Lynch movie captured the intimate feel of the book.

    Two scenes we can compare…. where Paul is tested with the Gom Jabar and he and Gurney Halleck’s shield fight. In both cases the Lynch film was far superior.

    Kyle McLachlan was an excellent Paul. Brilliant performance in his first movie role.

  187. MEH 0910 says:

    Dune Postponed 1 Whole Year “Shocking…”

    • Replies: @Talha
  188. @Johnny Rico

    Check out “Barbarian Invasions” by Villeneuve if you haven’t already. Probably his best.

  189. Anon[112] • Disclaimer says:

    By the way, if you’re looking for something else to review, I’d recommend the late 80s anime “Angel Cop”.

  190. MEH 0910 says:

    Fatman Official Trailer (2020) – Mel Gibson, Walton Goggins, Marianne Jean-Baptiste

    To save his declining business, Chris Cringle (Mel Gibson), also known as Santa Claus, is forced into a partnership with the U.S. military. Making matters worse, Chris gets locked into a deadly battle of wits against a highly skilled assassin (Walton Goggins), hired by a precocious 12-year-old after receiving a lump of coal in his stocking. ‘Tis the season for Fatman to get even, in the action-comedy that keeps on giving.

  191. Pericles says:
    @Laurent Guyénot

    I’m hoping to one day read Lynch on Forrest Gump, a film that, I confess, I had thought genuinely conservative when it came out (1992, I think), but that now I see as a genuine neocon operation: Gump is the perfect Goy seen by Jews: don’t think, don’t ask questions, just run. And if you are asked about your experience at war, say, “It was nice!”

    The ending seems quite a bit less nice when you watch it with a bit of experience. Disastrous party girl Jenny turns up broke on his doorstep, apparently exposes poor Forrest to HIV, runs away because he’s not exciting enough, then some years later foists her hellspawn onto the retarded but rich guy. (Sure, Forrest, he’s yours. Don’t worry about it. “O-kay Jen-ny.”) Then dies from a sickness left unexplored. The music swells, the camera pans … etc.

  192. @jim jones

    “Feeling lucky Harkonnen punk?”
    Yes, that would work!

Current Commenter
says:

Leave a Reply - Comments on articles more than two weeks old will be judged much more strictly on quality and tone


 Remember My InformationWhy?
 Email Replies to my Comment
Submitted comments have been licensed to The Unz Review and may be republished elsewhere at the sole discretion of the latter
Subscribe to This Comment Thread via RSS Subscribe to All Trevor Lynch Comments via RSS