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In his highly acclaimed 2017 book, Destined for War, Harvard professor Graham Allison assessed the likelihood that the United States and China would one day find themselves at war. Comparing the U.S.-Chinese relationship to great-power rivalries all the way back to the Peloponnesian War of the fifth century BC, he concluded that the future risk of a conflagration was substantial. Like much current analysis of U.S.-Chinese relations, however, he missed a crucial point: for all intents and purposes, the United States and China are already at war with one another. Even if their present slow-burn conflict may not produce the immediate devastation of a conventional hot war, its long-term consequences could prove no less dire.

To suggest this means reassessing our understanding of what constitutes war. From Allison’s perspective (and that of so many others in Washington and elsewhere), “peace” and “war” stand as polar opposites. One day, our soldiers are in their garrisons being trained and cleaning their weapons; the next, they are called into action and sent onto a battlefield. War, in this model, begins when the first shots are fired.

Well, think again in this new era of growing great-power struggle and competition. Today, war means so much more than military combat and can take place even as the leaders of the warring powers meet to negotiate and share dry-aged steak and whipped potatoes (as Donald Trump and Xi Jinping did at Mar-a-Lago in 2017). That is exactly where we are when it comes to Sino-American relations. Consider it war by another name, or perhaps, to bring back a long-retired term, a burning new version of a cold war.

Even before Donald Trump entered the Oval Office, the U.S. military and other branches of government were already gearing up for a long-term quasi-war, involving both growing economic and diplomatic pressure on China and a buildup of military forces along that country’s periphery. Since his arrival, such initiatives have escalated into Cold War-style combat by another name, with his administration committed to defeating China in a struggle for global economic, technological, and military supremacy.

This includes the president’s much-publicized “trade war” with China, aimed at hobbling that country’s future growth; a techno-war designed to prevent it from overtaking the U.S. in key breakthrough areas of technology; a diplomatic war intended to isolate Beijing and frustrate its grandiose plans for global outreach; a cyber war (largely hidden from public scrutiny); and a range of military measures as well. This may not be war in the traditional sense of the term, but for leaders on both sides, it has the feel of one.

Why China?

The media and many politicians continue to focus on U.S.-Russian relations, in large part because of revelations of Moscow’s meddling in the 2016 American presidential election and the ongoing Mueller investigation. Behind the scenes, however, most senior military and foreign policy officials in Washington view China, not Russia, as the country’s principal adversary. In eastern Ukraine, the Balkans, Syria, cyberspace, and in the area of nuclear weaponry, Russia does indeed pose a variety of threats to Washington’s goals and desires. Still, as an economically hobbled petro-state, it lacks the kind of might that would allow it to truly challenge this country’s status as the world’s dominant power. China is another story altogether. With its vast economy, growing technological prowess, intercontinental “Belt and Road” infrastructure project, and rapidly modernizing military, an emboldened China could someday match or even exceed U.S. power on a global scale, an outcome American elites are determined to prevent at any cost.

Washington’s fears of a rising China were on full display in January with the release of the 2019 Worldwide Threat Assessment of the U.S. Intelligence Community, a synthesis of the views of the Central Intelligence Agency and other members of that “community.” Its conclusion: “We assess that China’s leaders will try to extend the country’s global economic, political, and military reach while using China’s military capabilities and overseas infrastructure and energy investments under the Belt and Road Initiative to diminish U.S. influence.”

To counter such efforts, every branch of government is now expected to mobilize its capabilities to bolster American — and diminish Chinese — power. In Pentagon documents, this stance is summed up by the term “overmatch,” which translates as the eternal preservation of American global superiority vis-à-vis China (and all other potential rivals). “The United States must retain overmatch,” the administration’s National Security Strategy insists, and preserve a “combination of capabilities in sufficient scale to prevent enemy success,” while continuing to “shape the international environment to protect our interests.”

In other words, there can never be parity between the two countries. The only acceptable status for China is as a distinctly lesser power. To ensure such an outcome, administration officials insist, the U.S. must take action on a daily basis to contain or impede its rise.

In previous epochs, as Allison makes clear in his book, this equation — a prevailing power seeking to retain its dominant status and a rising power seeking to overcome its subordinate one — has almost always resulted in conventional conflict. In today’s world, however, where great-power armed combat could possibly end in a nuclear exchange and mutual annihilation, direct military conflict is a distinctly unappealing option for all parties. Instead, governing elites have developed other means of warfare — economic, technological, and covert — to achieve such strategic objectives. Viewed this way, the United States is already in close to full combat mode with respect to China.

Trade War

When it comes to the economy, the language betrays the reality all too clearly. The Trump administration’s economic struggle with China is regularly described, openly and without qualification, as a “war.” And there’s no doubt that senior White House officials, beginning with the president and his chief trade representative, Robert Lighthizer, see it just that way: as a means of pulverizing the Chinese economy and so curtailing that country’s ability to compete with the United States in all other measures of power.

Ostensibly, the aim of President Trump’s May 2018 decision to impose $60 billion in tariffs on Chinese imports (increased in September to $200 billion) was to rectify a trade imbalance between the two countries, while protecting the American economy against what is described as China’s malign behavior. Its trade practices “plainly constitute a grave threat to the long-term health and prosperity of the United States economy,” as the president put it when announcing the second round of tariffs.

An examination of the demands submitted to Chinese negotiators by the U.S. trade delegation last May suggests, however, that Washington’s primary intent hasn’t been to rectify that trade imbalance but to impede China’s economic growth. Among the stipulations Beijing must acquiesce to before receiving tariff relief, according to leaked documents from U.S. negotiators that were spread on Chinese social media:

  • halting all government subsidies to advanced manufacturing industries in its Made in China 2025 program, an endeavor that covers 10 key economic sectors, including aircraft manufacturing, electric cars, robotics, computer microchips, and artificial intelligence;
  • accepting American restrictions on investments in sensitive technologies without retaliating;
  • opening up its service and agricultural sectors — areas where Chinese firms have an inherent advantage — to full American competition.

In fact, this should be considered a straightforward declaration of economic war. Acquiescing to such demands would mean accepting a permanent subordinate status vis-à-vis the United States in hopes of continuing a profitable trade relationship with this country. “The list reads like the terms for a surrender rather than a basis for negotiation,” was the way Eswar Prasad, an economics professor at Cornell University, accurately described these developments.

Technological Warfare

As suggested by America’s trade demands, Washington’s intent is not only to hobble China’s economy today and tomorrow but for decades to come. This has led to an intense, far-ranging campaign to deprive it of access to advanced technologies and to cripple its leading technology firms.

Chinese leaders have long realized that, for their country to achieve economic and military parity with the United States, they must master the cutting-edge technologies that will dominate the twenty-first-century global economy, including artificial intelligence (AI), fifth-generation (5G) telecommunications, electric vehicles, and nanotechnology. Not surprisingly then, the government has invested in a major way in science and technology education, subsidized research in pathbreaking fields, and helped launch promising startups, among other such endeavors — all in the very fashion that the Internet and other American computer and aerospace innovations were originally financed and encouraged by the Department of Defense.

Chinese companies have also demanded technology transfers when investing in or forging industrial partnerships with foreign firms, a common practice in international development. India, to cite a recent example of this phenomenon, expects that significant technology transfers from American firms will be one outcome of its agreed-upon purchases of advanced American weaponry.

In addition, Chinese firms have been accused of stealing American technology through cybertheft, provoking widespread outrage in this country. Realistically speaking, it’s difficult for outside observers to determine to what degree China’s recent technological advances are the product of commonplace and legitimate investments in science and technology and to what degree they’re due to cyberespionage. Given Beijing’s massive investment in science, technology, engineering, and mathematics education at the graduate and post-graduate level, however, it’s safe to assume that most of that country’s advances are the result of domestic efforts.

Certainly, given what’s publicly known about Chinese cybertheft activities, it’s reasonable for American officials to apply pressure on Beijing to curb the practice. However, the Trump administration’s drive to blunt that country’s technological progress is also aimed at perfectly legitimate activities. For example, the White House seeks to ban Beijing’s government subsidies for progress on artificial intelligence at the same time that the Department of Defense is pouring billions of dollars into AI research at home. The administration is also acting to block the Chinese acquisition of U.S. technology firms and of exports of advanced components and know-how.

In an example of this technology war that’s made the headlines lately, Washington has been actively seeking to sabotage the efforts of Huawei, one of China’s most prominent telecom firms, to gain leadership in the global deployment of 5G wireless communications. Such wireless systems are important in part because they will transmit colossal amounts of electronic data at far faster rates than now conceivable, facilitating the introduction of self-driving cars, widespread roboticization, and the universal application of AI.

Second only to Apple as the world’s supplier of smartphones and a major producer of telecommunications equipment, Huawei has sought to take the lead in the race for 5G adaptation around the world. Fearing that this might give China an enormous advantage in the coming decades, the Trump administration has tried to prevent that. In what is widely described as a “tech Cold War,” it has put enormous pressure on both its Asian and European allies to bar the company from conducting business in their countries, even as it sought the arrest in Canada of Huawei’s chief financial officer, Meng Wanzhou, and her extradition to the U.S. on charges of tricking American banks into aiding Iranian firms (in violation of Washington’s sanctions on that country). Other attacks on Huawei are in the works, including a potential ban on the sales of its products in this country. Such moves are regularly described as focused on boosting the security of both the United States and its allies by preventing the Chinese government from using Huawei’s telecom networks to steal military secrets. The real reason — barely disguised — is simply to block China from gaining technological parity with the United States.

Cyberwarfare

There would be much to write on this subject, if only it weren’t still hidden in the shadows of the growing conflict between the two countries. Not surprisingly, however, little information is available on U.S.-Chinese cyberwarfare. All that can be said with confidence is that an intense war is now being waged between the two countries in cyberspace. American officials accuse China of engaging in a broad-based cyber-assault on this country, involving both outright cyberespionage to obtain military as well as corporate secrets and widespread political meddling. “What the Russians are doing pales in comparison to what China is doing,” said Vice President Mike Pence last October in a speech at the Hudson Institute, though — typically on the subject — he provided not a shred of evidence for his claim.

Not disclosed is what this country is doing to combat China in cyberspace. All that can be known from available information is that this is a two-sided war in which the U.S. is conducting its own assaults. “­The United States will impose swift and costly consequences on foreign governments, criminals, and other actors who undertake significant malicious cyber activities,” the 2017 National Security Strategy affirmed. What form these “consequences” have taken has yet to be revealed, but there’s little doubt that America’s cyber warriors have been active in this domain.

Diplomatic and Military Coercion

Completing the picture of America’s ongoing war with China are the fierce pressures being exerted on the diplomatic and military fronts to frustrate Beijing’s geopolitical ambitions. To advance those aspirations, China’sleadership is relying heavily on a much-touted Belt and Road Initiative, a trillion-dollar plan to help fund and encourage the construction of a vast new network of road, rail, port, and pipeline infrastructure across Eurasia and into the Middle East and Africa. By financing — and, in many cases, actually building — such infrastructure, Beijing hopes to bind the economies of a host of far-flung nations ever closer to its own, while increasing its political influence across the Eurasian mainland and Africa. As Beijing’s leadership sees it, at least in terms of orienting the planet’s future economics, its role would be similar to that of the Marshall Plan that cemented U.S. influence in Europe after World War II.

And given exactly that possibility, Washington has begun to actively seek to undermine the Belt and Road wherever it can — discouraging allies from participating, while stirring up unease in countries like Malaysia and Ugandaover the enormous debts to China they may end up with and the heavy-handed manner in which that country’s firms often carry out such overseas construction projects. (For example, they typically bring in Chinese laborers to do most of the work, rather than hiring and training locals.)

“China uses bribes, opaque agreements, and the strategic use of debt to hold states in Africa captive to Beijing’s wishes and demands,” National Security Advisor John Bolton claimed in a December speech on U.S. policy on that continent. “Its investment ventures are riddled with corruption,” he added, “and do not meet the same environmental or ethical standards as U.S. developmental programs.” Bolton promised that the Trump administration would provide a superior alternative for African nations seeking development funds, but — and this is something of a pattern as well — no such assistance has yet materialized.

In addition to diplomatic pushback, the administration has undertaken a series of initiatives intended to isolate China militarily and limit its strategic options. In South Asia, for example, Washington has abandoned its past position of maintaining rough parity in its relations with India and Pakistan. In recent years, it’s swung sharply towards a strategic alliance with New Dehli, attempting to enlist it fully in America’s efforts to contain China and, presumably, in the process punishing Pakistan for its increasingly enthusiastic role in the Belt and Road Initiative.

In the Western Pacific, the U.S. has stepped up its naval patrols and forged new basing arrangements with local powers — all with the aim of confining the Chinese military to areas close to the mainland. In response, Beijing has sought to escape the grip of American power by establishing miniature bases on Chinese-claimed islands in the South China Sea (or even constructing artificial islands to house bases there) — moves widely condemned by the hawks in Washington.

To demonstrate its ire at the effrontery of Beijing in the Pacific (once known as an “American lake”), the White House has ordered an increased pace of so-called freedom-of-navigation operations (FRONOPs). Navy warships regularly sail within shooting range of those very island bases, suggesting a U.S. willingness to employ military force to resist future Chinese moves in the region (and also creating situations in which a misstep could lead to a military incident that could lead… well, anywhere).

In Washington, the warnings about Chinese military encroachment in the region are already reaching a fever pitch. For instance, Admiral Philip Davidson, commander of U.S. forces in the Pacific, described the situation there in recent congressional testimony this way: “In short, China is now capable of controlling the South China Sea in all scenarios short of war with the United States.”

A Long War of Attrition

As Admiral Davidson suggests, one possible outcome of the ongoing cold war with China could be armed conflict of the traditional sort. Such an encounter, in turn, could escalate to the nuclear level, resulting in mutual annihilation. A war involving only “conventional” forces would itself undoubtedly be devastating and lead to widespread suffering, not to mention the collapse of the global economy.

Even if a shooting war doesn’t erupt, however, a long-term geopolitical war of attrition between the U.S. and China will, in the end, have debilitating and possibly catastrophic consequences for both sides. Take the trade war, for example. If that’s not resolved soon in a positive manner, continuing high U.S. tariffs on Chinese imports will severely curb Chinese economic growth and so weaken the world economy as a whole, punishing every nation on Earth, including this one. High tariffs will also increase costs for American consumers and endanger the prosperity and survival of many firms that rely on Chinese raw materials and components.

This new brand of war will also ensure that already sky-high defense expenditures will continue to rise, diverting funds from vital needs like education, health, infrastructure, and the environment. Meanwhile, preparations for a future war with China have already become the number one priority at the Pentagon, crowding out all other considerations. “While we’re focused on ongoing operations,” acting Secretary of Defense Patrick Shanahan reportedly told his senior staff on his first day in office this January, “remember China, China, China.”

Perhaps the greatest victim of this ongoing conflict will be planet Earth itself and all the creatures, humans included, who inhabit it. As the world’s top two emitters of climate-altering greenhouse gases, the U.S. and China must work together to halt global warming or all of us are doomed to a hellish future. With a war under way, even a non-shooting one, the chance for such collaboration is essentially zero. The only way to save civilization is for the U.S. and China to declare peace and focus together on human salvation.

Michael T. Klare, a TomDispatch regular, is the five-college professor emeritus of peace and world security studies at Hampshire College and a senior visiting fellow at the Arms Control Association. His most recent book is The Race for What’s Left. His next book, All Hell Breaking Loose: Climate Change, Global Chaos, and American National Security , will be published in 2019.

(Republished from TomDispatch by permission of author or representative)
 
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  1. A recent Asia Society conference asked how we should compete with China. https://asiasociety.org/northern-california/made-china-2025-policy-behind-rhetoric

    The genuinely expert panelists could not articulate America’s demands beyond the familiar ‘level playing field’ that America created by shackling China with uniquely humiliating conditions before admitting it to the WTO.

    Today, China generates 20% of global GDP (the US 15%), its imports and exports are in balance, its currency fairly valued, its economy one third larger and growing three times faster than America’s and it produces essential technology that America needs and cannot provide.

    It is almost impossible to imagine a war scenario that the US could win, short of China invading America.

  2. Alfa158 says:

    Excellent article Mister Klare, but would like to raise a few quibbles.
    1) As far as “economic” war, China has been fighting one for decades. It’s called competing and trying to do the best to improve your people’s lot. The US is finally starting to fight back but some of it’s measures are inappropriate and/or ineffective.
    2) As far as the US trying to confine the Chinese military to its own region, I really haven’t seen that the Chinese military is particularly interested in operation outside their own region anyway. It seems to be focused on protecting China and its own neighborhood and interests, and the Chinese aren’t stupid enough to bleed away their wealth and blood in distant misadventures.
    3) I’d gotten the impression from the Deep State’s rhetoric that they are much hotter on fighting a shooting war with Russia than with China. In an extended struggle, as long as it doesn’t go nuclear, US chances are much better against a Russia whose economy is only a fraction of China’s.

    • Replies: @mikemikev
    , @The Scalpel
  3. joe webb says:

    sounds like a good idea to me, but first pry Russia away from Chinkdom.

    Joe Webb

  4. MEFOBILLS says:

    Keynes says this, “All trade is only barter.” The Wall Street/China Gambit is key to understanding today. Clinton signed MFN trade status with China, screwing over NAFTA. Those Zenith TV’s that were supposed to be made in Mexico became Chinese made electronics.

    Balanced trade was also thrown out the window, as Wall Street was in on the gambit. Trade in goods was unbalanced, and America supplied dollars to China to make up the difference. China then recycled those mercantile won dollars back to the U.S. to buy Tbills, helping keep interest rates low, and acting as a prime variable in forming U.S. housing bubble. Returning dollars then spun out into the American economy, so American’s could buy more Chinese goods from transplanted American factories.

    The wall street China gambit turned mainstreet American’s into Zeros, while wall street became heroes.

    Any discussion of China current economic status cannot overlook the role of Wall Street exporting of jobs, to then get wage arbitrage. Immigrating third world people into America is also a function of this “finance capitalism” as it wants wage arbitrage from third world labor as well.

    Finance Capitalism in turn is part of Zion and Atlantacism. International credit “banking” will send its finance capital anywhere in the world to get the lowest price. In the case of China, overhang of communist labor in the mid 90’s was available to make things, and then export Chinese made goods back to U.S. (at the China price.)

    China still uses Atlantic doctrine, where raw materials come in by ship, and finished goods with increment of production value add leave by ship. (Value add is key element to making any economy thrive. Just extracting raw materials turns a country into Africa, witness the attempt at turning Russia into an extraction economy in the 90’s.)

    Note difference in American policy in the 90’s: Russia was to become extraction, and China was to become value add. As Tucker Carlson says, America is run by a ship of fools.

    For China, “Eurasia” beckons, and raw materials can be had from China’s interior and via overland routes. This then is a pivot away from London/Zion Atlantacism (finance capital) and toward industrial capitalism.

    In other words, both U.S. and the West have hoisted themselves on their own petard. People that wax poetic about China’s gains overlook this important mechanism of “gifting” of our patrimony to China. It is very easy to copy or be a fast follower, it is beyond difficult to invent and create.
    Wall Street and greed gave away our patrimony, which was hard won over the ages in order to make wage arbitrage today, and gave away the future.

    China uses state banks, and also forgives debts lodged in their state banks. This is actually one of the secret methods used to rope-a-dope on the west. The Chinese economy is not debt laden, and what public debts there are, are lodged in a State Bank, where they can be jubileed or ignored.

    The U.S. and the West had better take a long hard look at finance capital method, which uses only “price signals” to make economic decisions, as pricing is main vector from which jobs were exported, and which China cleverly used to climb up its industrial curve. Sovereign money/Industrial Capitalism IS the American System of Peshine Smith and Henry Clay. Atlantacism/Zionism/Finance Capital is not American – the parasite jumped to the U.S. from London.

    China is wisely in control of its money power via its state banks and is pivoting away from Atlantacism now that it has served its purpose. The belt and road routes are mostly overland, with some coastal sea routes, and there isn’t a thing sea power (((atlantacists))) can do about it.

    China has played the game well, but don’t overlook the gifting of Western patrimony caused by a false neo-liberal finance capital economic ideology, which blinds Western adherents.

    • Replies: @Digital Samizdat
  5. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:
    @joe webb

    Yeah, so America can topple China and go after Russia immediately afterwards? I don’t think the Russians are so stupid.

    There is only 1 way Russia survives the 21st century without being broken up and ruined, and that is allying itself with China. The same is true for China.

    The only way China can survive intact is to ally itself with Russia.

    Pretty simple stuff I am sure each country understands.

    • Replies: @joe webb
  6. Erebus says:

    China generates 20% of global GDP (the US 15%)

    On a PPP basis, of course.

    China’s real economy, of course dwarfs that of the US’.

    The author touches on a nuclear trade option China holds over the US that I see little mention of elsewhere. High tariffs are one thing, but a closure of trade in components and raw materials would do far more than …

    endanger the prosperity and survival of many firms that rely on Chinese raw materials and components.

    Should China block exports of everything other than finished goods to the US, almost every US factory would close due to lack of parts and materials. The time and investment required to rebuild/replace supply chains in a JIT world means much of what’s left of America’s real economy would disappear within weeks.

    What then?

    Unlike Russia, the US is highly vulnerable to targeted sanctions. American trade negotiators are apparently oblivious to this. I find that very weird.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    , @nsa
    , @TT
  7. Wally says:

    author Klare said: “The media and many politicians continue to focus on U.S.-Russian relations, in large part because of revelations of Moscow’s meddling in the 2016 American presidential election and the ongoing Mueller investigation.”

    – What “revelations”? “What meddling”?

    – He tipped his hand right off the bat. Klare is just another run of the mill Communist with a case of the Trump Derangement Syndrome, complete with Communism’s favorite scam, ‘global warming’.

    Klare said: “Ostensibly, the aim of President Trump’s May 2018 decision to impose $60 billion in tariffs on Chinese imports (increased in September to $200 billion) was to rectify a trade imbalance between the two countries …”

    – No, the aim is to encourage China to removes it vastly more & extreme tariffs on US goods & services.

    Klare said: “… continuing high U.S. tariffs on Chinese imports will severely curb Chinese economic growth and so weaken the world economy as a whole, punishing every nation on Earth, including this one. High tariffs will also increase costs for American consumers and endanger the prosperity and survival of many firms that rely on Chinese raw materials and components.”

    – Nonsense, all China needs to do is remove it’s many times over more severe tariffs.

    – If the US’s lesser tariffs on Chinese goods / services ‘hurt the US’, then why don’t China’s massive tariffs on US goods / services hurt China?

    And to think some take this fraud, Klare, seriously.

    • Replies: @The Scalpel
    , @Per/Norway
  8. Biff says:

    It was all a really great, intriguing article, but then it morphed into a dreamworld at the end.

    The only way to save civilization is for the U.S. and China to declare peace and focus together on human salvation.

    Humans aren’t ready for peace or salvation, and anybody that has promoted such a thing is readily shot dead – Gandhi, John Lennon, MLK, Jesus.

    “Love thy neighbor” “Give peace a chance”

    “Fuck you! Bam!”

    Humans are not ready.

    • Replies: @Shaun
    , @Joe Wong
  9. Anonymous[370] • Disclaimer says:

    The media and many politicians continue to focus on U.S.-Russian relations, in large part because of revelations of Moscow’s meddling in the 2016 American presidential election and the ongoing Mueller investigation.

    Eh? What revelations?

    • Replies: @Per/Norway
    , @Herald
  10. Cyrano says:

    It’s not the economy stupid. According to many “experts” on this site, since the US economy and military expenditures are 10 times bigger than Russia’s, it seems “logical” to those experts that the US army is 10 times better. I would argue that not only is not 10 times better, it’s not even equal to Russia’s army. Again, according to the same types of “experts” Russia’s economy is the size of Italy. Why don’t then someone break the good news to Italy and encourage them to go to war with Russia? Since their economies are equal – it seems that Italy stands a fair chance of beating Russia, thus eliminating the need of the 10 times superior army to fight them. The moronity on this site, man – it’s unbelievable.

    • Replies: @MEFOBILLS
  11. tamo says:
    @joe webb

    You sound like a failed proctologist in the crumbling Honkiedom.

    • Replies: @Wally
  12. China is not suffering from massive degeneration as the US is. Instead of trying to prevent China from becoming a leading nation of the world, why could the US not accept China’s coming prominence and concentrate on strengthening its own population ? Unlike the US, China is not interested in “ruling the world”, it is only interested in expanding its economy. For the rest, it is dedicated to stability and cooperation. No threat to the world at all, except for some compulsive hegemonists in the Pentagon.

    • Agree: foolisholdman
  13. HiHo says:

    This article is pure propaganda and as such is based upon lies, misconceptions and pure fantasy.
    If there already is a war it is all in the minds of Anericans, and they have already lost that war because America needs allies and can only create enemies amongst people that were its friends.
    Europe will join with Russia as soon as it can get away from the US bully. That means 550million Europeans will join 160 million Russians. 710 million people with Russian technology and Chinese investment (China already runs Btitain’s North Sea gas), will produce an economic power that will humiliate the USA at every turn.
    All of South America wants to break with the US, the entire Orient hates the US. America is actually doing to Africa what the US accuses Russia and China of doing.
    If there really is a war between the US and China then the US has already lost it. The rest of the world wants only one thing: the absolute collapse of the entire US. Everyone hates the US. No one will ever support you US dictators and bullies 100%.
    You stab everyone in the back sooner or later and your only interest is supporting the fascist and racist Israel that is genociding the true Semites, the Palestinians.

    I’m amazed Fred Unz publishes this sort of trash. It is unadulterated lies, brainless stupidity and total hog wash. Pure drivel.

    • Replies: @WHAT
    , @ThreeCranes
  14. The obvious:

    It might be a bit harder than that.

    It is often said that, had the Western and Eastern Europeans formed a coalition rather than fight WW I, they would still be dominant.
    And if I had wings, I could fly to the moon.
    The Eastern Europeans had never accepted the Western Enlightenment (still haven’t), and to have done so would have destabilized their family structure — the deep structure of their society — exactly as it has finally destabilized ours, today. The nature of authority and organization in Eastern Europe differed considerably from that of Western Europe. Their forms of organization were different enough to make integration impossible, and perhaps to make formation of a coalition impossible.

    China’s organizational forms, family structure, and and social assumptions in general differ even more from the present day form of the Western Enlightenment than did those of East Europe c.a. AD 1900.

    It’s at times like these we get to test the assumption that reason and fear of death can lead to agreement on a modus vivendi.

    Counterinsurgency

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  15. mikemikev says:
    @Alfa158

    In an extended struggle, as long as it doesn’t go nuclear, US chances are much better against a Russia whose economy is only a fraction of China’s.

    I wonder how their economy would look after a week of strategic bombing.

    • Replies: @WHAT
    , @jpb
  16. Shaun says:
    @Biff

    I forget, who shot Jesus?

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  17. China is now PAC-man of the world.

  18. I will never believe the Zionist controlled U.S. will go to war with China as long as one U.S. company remains in China and damn near all the major U.S. companies are in business in China, this is a ploy for the zionist controlled MIC to loot the America taxpayer!

  19. JC says:

    I didnt read the article but I dont think china needs the US for anything…they are well on their way to be the dominant world power…the US and ist zionist occupied government are losers the zionists want never ending wars which stupid USA has done,,china and all the rest will eventually dump the rothchild banking system and form its own which will in all likely hood benefit more than the zionist one does

  20. WHAT says:
    @HiHo

    Ron probably has a quota to fill. Reed gets his scribbles in by the same token, I bet.

  21. WHAT says:
    @mikemikev

    >m-muh bombers

    It will be fine, chinese know where to buy AA complexes that actually work.

  22. onebornfree says: • Website

    No mention of an ideological battle, and no wonder, as “the Chinks” et al have apparently already won that one, as evidenced by the fact that the last US general election was merely yet another idiotic, meaningless [ yet highly entertaining], cat fight over blue socialism versus red socialism.

    The US vs China trade war is just another power/domination battle scam between two competing, wholly criminal orgs, both totally against anything ever resembling truly free trade…..nothing more.

    And so it goes….

    The “America Is Not A Socialist Country” Scam :
    http://onebornfree-mythbusters.blogspot.com/2019/02/onebornfrees-special-scam-alerts-no-87.html [bottom of page]

    Regards, onebornfree

  23. Rich says:

    “The US and China must work together to halt global warming or all of us are doomed to a hellish future.” Really? If this doesn’t prove this guy is a lefty shill, nothing does. Even the clowns raking in grants and trying to impoverish everyone with higher taxes have seen the light and have been saying “climate change” lately. Many scientists are now arguing that we may be headed into a new cooling period rather than a “hellish” warming period that brought us so much prosperity. This “global warming” religion with its hockey stick icons and polar bear mythology is worse than the Heaven’s Gate religion.

  24. @HiHo

    “The rest of the world wants only one thing: the absolute collapse of the entire US. Everyone hates the US. No one will ever support you US dictators and bullies 100%.
    You stab everyone in the back sooner or later and your only interest is supporting the fascist and racist Israel that is genociding the true Semites, the Palestinians.”

    Well yes. As history has shown, occupation and rule by Jahweh’s Chosen People tends to bring this fate down upon the host country.

  25. Oh, for Pete’s sake:
    1. It will always be China+Russia vs. the US. The EU, site of WWIII, will just soil itself.
    2. The Debt Bubble US economy will collapse. At some point. Changes every calculation.
    3. The US will devolve into a state of civil war. Of some sort. Paralyze the place.

    Momentum is with China and Russia. The US is sliding into history’s toilet.

    Just give it a few more years. And the whole world sees and knows it. The whole world can get along very well without the US. And would very much like that to be.

  26. Global warming my azz! But the rest of it rings pretty true. If nukes arn’t used, Russia and China will win this war simply because they have the gold now and the US has spread its fiat petro dollar all over the world which will come back big time to bite them. That is if China and Russia are smart enough to go on a gold exchange standard.

  27. MEFOBILLS says:
    @Cyrano

    since the US economy and military expenditures are 10 times bigger than Russia’s, it seems “logical” to those experts that the US army is 10 times better. I would argue that not only is not 10 times better, it’s not even equal to Russia’s army.

    I would argue the same.

    Russia is a land power. This means using a land army and area denial. Russia does not need to power project with a blue water Navy and she does not follow Atlantacist doctrine.

    Atlantacist doctrine got its start when our (((friends))) evolved the method during the Levantine Greek City State period, where our tribal friends would be stationed in various entrepot cities ringing the Mediterranean. They would use their tribal connections to Launder pirated goods, and to push their “international” usurious money type, which in those days was silver. Simultaneously they were taking rents on their secret East/West mechanism, whereby exchange rates between gold and silver were exploited. Gold was plentiful in India and Silver more plentiful in the West, so the Caravan’s took arbitrage on exchange rates as silver drained east and gold drained west.

    The U.S. inherited Atlanticist method after WW2. The U.S. is not an island economy like England – it does not need to go around the world beating up others to then extract raw materials. The U.S. is actually more like Russia in that U.S. can afford to have economic autarky and be independent. The U.S. does not need to power project with a blue water navy, despite the false narrative (((inheritance))) passed down to us, especially after WW2. Nobody likes being punked with false narrative.

    U.S. military expenditures are so heavy because of this tendency of finance capital to search the world for gains, and this means posting overseas military bases, which in turn are expensive to operate. Russia only has a “close in” defensive posture of area denial. This is far less expensive than power projecting.

    Also, GDP figures are misleading. In the U.S. if housing prices go up it reflects in GDP growth, when in reality – the house didn’t improve. GDP figures are lies. If finance takes 50% cut of the economy, they are only pushing finance paper back and forth at each other… this is not the real economy, but it shows up in GDP because finance paper is an “asset”.

    Russia’s economy is much larger than their GDP, probably it is closer to Germany’s in real terms. Real terms = real economy = the making of goods and services.

    China is not America’s natural ally, Russia is. Atlantacist doctrine sold America’s patrimony to China for cheap, and then the ((international)) will just jump to another host.

    America has been parasitized by false doctrine and the output is thus that of an infected brain – an output that is crazy. Finance plutocracy typically will not let go willingly, but has to be removed forcefully.

    • Agree: Cyrano
  28. Russia is a country of vodka drunks and Dubai prostitutes run by a syndicate of Israel oligarchs and ex-KGB who kill their journalists in foreign countries.

    China is dependent on outsourcing and if the US factories were to withdraw tomorrow the Chinese economy would take a huge hit.

    • Replies: @MEFOBILLS
  29. @Erebus

    The US is vulnerable in so many other ways too, see how fast the store shelves empty just on the news of an approaching big storm. Panic buying is rife and some people keep minimal food available at home. I know people who have to stop at an ATM to get $20. All kinds of vital distribution of food, water, power, fuel and more seems to pass through a myriad of often vulnerable bottle-necks real or virtual. Easy targets for low cost, low tech sabotage teams I’d think.

    I’m inclined to think also that this threatening hysteria possibly is a deep state psy-op designed to prime Americans prior to the enactment of some sort of “democracy” modifications.

  30. Sean says:

    America is the most powerful country solely because it has the most powerful economy in the world, and that was in no small measure due to America’s abundance of arable land, navigable waterways, natural resources ect ect. . In a few decades China has rocketed close to US level and is in a global hegemon trajectory solely on the quality and size of its population . There is not much doubt about the outcome of any competition between China and the West, especially as much of the profits of the ruling class in the West has come from offshoring and investment in China and their economy of scale production suppressing labour’s power in the West. The Chinese and their Western collaborators will just wait Trump out. Trump is a populist not a creature of the Deap State alarmed at China’s rise. The leading strategists of America’s foreign policy establishment still don’t realise what they are dealing with in China.

    Perhaps the greatest victim of this ongoing conflict will be planet Earth itself and all the creatures, humans included, who inhabit it. As the world’s top two emitters of climate-altering greenhouse gases, the U.S. and China must work together to halt global warming or all of us are doomed to a hellish future.

    Better to reign in hell. Anyway, there is hardly a tree left in China and since 2006, China has been the world’s largest emitter of CO2 annually and though they pay lip service they accept no binding target for reduction; quite the opposite.

    Even if their present slow-burn conflict may not produce the immediate devastation of a conventional hot war, its long-term consequences could prove no less dire.

    The manufacturing should be done in the most advanced regions of Earth ie the West, because that is where the technology and will exists to protect the environment. China is trying to churn out cheaper goods and does not care what damage they do in cutting environmental corners.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change_in_China
    China still supports the “common but differentiated responsibilities” principle, which holds that since China is still developing, its abilities and capacities to reduce emissions are comparatively lower than developed countries’. Therefore, its emissions should not be required to decrease over time, but rather should be encouraged to increase less over time until industrialization is farther along and reductions are feasible

    In other words the global environment is going to continue to be ripped apart like a car in a wrecking yard by China. “Industrialization is farther along” is obviously Chinese speak for “when China is able to dominate the world with enormous productive capacity and we do not even have to pay lip service any more”.

    In today’s world, however, where great-power armed combat could possibly end in a nuclear exchange and mutual annihilation, direct military conflict is a distinctly unappealing option for all parties. Instead, governing elites have developed other means of warfare — economic, technological, and covert — to achieve such strategic objectives. Viewed this way, the United States is already in close to full combat mode with respect to China.

    No, the appeal of a real war will increase precipitously for any clear loser in the economic competition who has a rapidly declining military advantage (especially in thermonuclear first strike capacity due to proximity fuses and sub location tech), and we all know who that is going to be. A shooting war will come, and the sooner it comes the better for the whole world. Reassuring Russia that it will not be subjected to the same treatment by the West at some point in the future will be the main problem inhibiting the coming military take down (and nuking if necessary) of China.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @foolisholdman
    , @TT
  31. @Shaun

    Eric Clapton, surely. Or was it Eric Idle? I forget. Who was it?

  32. As to bringing in Hindoos and Pakis into to the America-China conflict with a singular example of the demand for defense related technology transfer by the former…

    India is a mediocrity but Pakistan is a nightmare for all concerned, given that after imbibing religious mumbo jumbo from moronic Arabs, with which havocs were created in Afghanistan via neoconnish America, now they are fellating uncircumcised Chinese for crumbs… the ungodly Chinese will play the idiotic Pakis like a fiddle to the detriment of the West!

  33. A superb and apparently too little appreciated point,

    War, in this model, begins when the first shots are fired.

    Well, think again in this new era of growing great-power struggle and competition.

    It all war, all the time and another point to remember is that there is always a war between the .001% and the rest of us.

    Another thing is that we proles, peasants and peons should give some serious thought to having the “elite” fight their own battles, on their “own” (though mostly stolen) shekels for once.

    • Agree: foolisholdman
  34. Agent76 says:

    Feb 15, 2019 Next Phase, Xi & Trump, Coordinate The Transition

    US industrial production plunges, this doesn’t mean that manufacturing jobs are not coming back to the US this means the [CB] is deteriorating quickly as Trump brings back manufacturing.

    Feb 16, 2019 Pentagon Warns of Chinese Space Lasers | China News Headlines

    A new Pentagon report says #China and Russia have developed #laser weapons to target US satellites. Need a Space Force?

  35. SteveK9 says:

    Michael Klare believes in Russia-gate. Anyone that foolish is not worth reading.

  36. The Scalpel says: • Website

    governing elites have developed other means of warfare — economic, technological, and covert — to achieve such strategic objectives. Viewed this way, the United States is already in close to full combat mode with respect to China.

    Looked at this way, there are countless wars all the time as well as a huge gray area that is debatable. I think there is merit in defining war as actual kinetic weapons firing in both directions. Even then, there are gray areas, but at least they are minimized

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  37. Yee says:

    Erebus,

    “The time and investment required to rebuild/replace supply chains in a JIT world means much of what’s left of America’s real economy would disappear within weeks.
    ……
    American trade negotiators are apparently oblivious to this. I find that very weird.”

    Of course they’re not oblivious, as you can see everytime the stock market goes down, some US official came out to say a deal/talk is on the way. Both the negotiators and the market know.

    They’re just betting on enough pressure will force China to surrender, like Japan did in the 80s.

  38. nsa says:
    @Erebus

    In the distant past there were at least 1000 PC Board manufacturers in the US…….now there are only 2 or 3. Most US PCB houses are actually a middleman with an iphone fronting for one of the many Chinese PCB factories. You supply the Gerber Files and the payment, of course, and your finished PC Boards come back by air the next day. Now here is the kicker: our US PC Board supplier is located in Illinois and owned by……you guessed it……Hindus. Half the staff are also Hindus. In general, the Chinese PCBs are of higher quality than the Hindu….er US PCBs. Face it…….mass production of consumer electronics in the USA is almost non-existent. An entire important industry has been lost forever based on wage arbitrage. But even if there were not a 10:1 wage disparity, the skill level and work ethic of Americans is pathetic compared to the diligent Asian worker bees. Reality is a cruel mistress………

    • Replies: @DB Cooper
    , @Erebus
  39. MEFOBILLS says:
    @jeff stryker

    Reality much?

    Russia just passed up the U.S. in grain exports. Their economy in real terms grows year on year. Russia has more natural wealth available to exploit than USA… that includes lands rich in minerals, timber, water, etc.

    With regards to traitorous fifth column atlantacists and oligarchy, Russia’s shock therapy (induced by the Harvard Boys) in the 90’s helped Russian’s figure out who the real enemy is. Putin has marginalized most of these ((Oligarchs)), and they longer are allowed to influence politics. Many have also been stripped of their ill gotten gains, for example the Rothschild gambit to grab Yukos and to own Russia was thwarted. Dollar debts were paid off, etc.

    Russia could go further in their symphony of church and state, and copy Justinian (Byzyantine empire) and prevent our (((friends))) from teaching in schools,bein control of money, or in government.

    With regards to China, they would be not be anywhere near where they are today if the West had not actively transferred their patrimony in the form of transplanted industry and knowledge.

    China is only temporarily dependent on export of goods via their Eastern seaboard, but as soon as belt and road opens up, she will pivot further toward Eurasia. If the U.S. factories withdrew from China tomorrow, China already has our “knowledge” and will find markets in Eurasia and raw materials in Africa, etc.

    People need to stop whistling past the graveyard.

    The atalantacist strategy has run its course, internal development of U.S. and linking up with belt and road would be in America’s best future interests. But, to do that requires first acknowledging that money’s true nature is law, and not private bank credit. Further, the U.S. is being used as whore of Babylon, where her money is “Federal Reserve Notes” and are international in character. The U.S is not sovereign. Deep state globalism does not recognize national boundaries, or sovereignty.

    • Agree: DESERT FOX
    • Replies: @DESERT FOX
  40. The Scalpel says: • Website
    @Alfa158

    Alternatively, one could examine a nations ability to rapidly expand their economy to meet wartime needs. In this scenario, other factors such as access to raw materials come into play. In this perspective, the equations would change dramatically.

  41. @MEFOBILLS

    To make a long story short, China is run by the Chinese, while the US today is run by (((globalist parasites))).

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  42. The Scalpel says: • Website
    @Wally

    And to think some take this fraud, Klare, seriously.

    He writes for Tomdispatch. Need I say more?

  43. @The Scalpel

    I think there is merit in defining war as actual kinetic weapons firing…

    Why limit it to that?

    I’d say there’s plenty of merit in the author’s definition especially since it would tend to shed some lights on the origins of major conflicts.

    • Replies: @The Scalpel
  44. @MEFOBILLS

    Russia under Putin is an exporter of non GMO grains where as the U.S. exports GMO grains thatt the Chinese do not want as these GMO grains are a destuctive to humans and animals.

    The FED is unconstitutional and creates money out of thin air and creates debt on we Americans for every dollar created and is privately owned by the zionist banking kabal which created the FED in 1913 and with that act established control over America.

  45. That US elites that are split on who to go after first compromised by going after both Russia and China at the same time is a definition of insanity. The US doesn’t have a chance in hell of subduing or defeating the Russia/China alliance. The US is already checkmated. The more it goes after some big win the worse will be its defeat.

    So the question (for me) is not which side will win, the question is the scenario of the decline of the US Empire. Someone here mentioned the EU turning East. At some point the EU will decide that staying a US vassal is suicide and it will turn East. When that happens then the virus of US insanity will turn inwards into itself.

    The US has recently focused on South America by installing several fascist regimes and is now trying to get Venezuela. But the US backed regimes are laying the groundwork for the next wave of revolution soon to come. Wherever I look the US is its own worst enemy. The big question is how much suffering before it ends.

    • Agree: jacques sheete
  46. The Scalpel says: • Website
    @jacques sheete

    The author’s definition makes the term a purely rhetorical one tantamount to an angry child saying “this means war!” to another angry child, or “The War on Drugs” or “The Battle of the Sexes” etc.

    Admittedly, this is all semantics, so have it your way if you want, as it is not worth the time of further debate. As for me, I prefer to have terms as precise as possible.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
    , @Wally
  47. DB Cooper says:
    @nsa

    I didn’t know Indians are into the PCB industry. Do the customers aware that they are just middlemen getting their goods from China?

    Anyway here is a behind the scene look at one of the PCB manufacturers in China. Pretty interesting stuff.

    • Replies: @nsa
  48. Cratylus says:

    Klare discovers the US crusade against China – 8 years after the Obama/Hillary “pivot” to East Asia sending 2/3 of the US Navy there and putting together the TPP to excluded China. As usual he is right on top of things.
    And he begins with this gem: “ “The media and many politicians continue to focus on U.S.-Russian relations, in large part because of revelations of Moscow’s meddling in the 2016 American presidential election and the ongoing Mueller investigation.” Huh? Does he mean the $4700 in Google ads or the $50,000 in Facebook ads traced to some alleged Russian sources? A Russiagater from the start.
    I remember some years ago before the shale revolution Klare was warning us about “peak oil.” I think we were supposed to have run out of it by now.
    Klare is a hack who cycles things that any conscious person reading the newspapers would have known long ago.

    P.s. He says that Apple is the number one cell phone. No longer. He should improve his Google search skills or his set of assumptions which have turned him into a Russiagater.
    Huawei now sells more cell phones worldwide than Apple (https://gearburn.com/2018/08/huawei-smartphone-sales-2018/). And Huawei does this even though it is effectively excluded from the US market (You cannot find it in stores) whereas Apple has unfettered access to the enormous Chinese market. You find Huawei everywhere – from Italy to Tanzania. How would Apple fare if China stopped purchases of its products? Not so well I am afraid.

    • Agree: WHAT
    • Replies: @Wally
  49. Anon[424] • Disclaimer says:

    Usa is at war against everyone , from China to Latinamerica , from Europe to India , from the islamic world to Africa . Usa is even at war against its own citizens , at least aginst its best citizens .

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  50. peterAUS says:
    @Counterinsurgency

    You are onto something here.

    I don’t think it’s simple “Eastern” vs “Western” Europeans; my take is Protestants vs Catholics vs Orthodox. In that order. The biggest difference is between Protestant and Orthodox. Catholics are, sort of, in the middle.
    Or, in practical terms, don’t see much difference between Austrians and Slovenes.
    That’s for Europe.

    As for China, definitely agree.

  51. wayfarer says:

    China’s “Petro-Yuan”: The End of the U.S. Dollar Hegemony?

  52. When we speak of the culture war or the war on drugs or the war between the sexes or a trade war we are misusing the word war.

    War with China means exactly shooting and bombing and killing Chinese and American people. Expanding the meaning of the word only makes it meaningless.

    We are NOT already at war with China.

    • Replies: @Herald
  53. joe webb says:
    @Anonymous

    well, smart remarks to the side. Please explain how Putin’s Russia could ally with Chinkdom?

    Russia’s vast real estate the chinks slaver over. Then there is no racial compatibility.

    Sooner or later, NATO has got to crumble since there is no need for it to contain Russia, etc.

    Russia, no matter who runs it, has zero need of more real estate to manage. It does need to sell oil to Europe I guess.

    The US , cuz of the Jews, still has lots of folks screaming about Russia!, but Trump seems to have handled that.

    Russia’s aligning with Iran and the folks who would like Israel to go poof! remains a bit of a mystery to me, but I understand that Russia has 25 million muzzies within its borders, thus needs to attend to them and their low IQ emotional correlates.

    Also, Russia has no love for the jews as demonstrated by its continuous expelling of the Jewish Power…from the Trots, to the Oligarchs, and now with regard to the SLC. (shitty little country per the French Ambassador a few years ago) I guess Russian anti-semitism continues.

    We are White and the Chinks are chinks and Oriental Despots…Presidents for Life, Democratic Centralism with an Oriental Despotic trait turbo-charging it to boot. Despots R Us sort of thing.

    So please give me the political science that has Russia and Chinkdom being natural or even pragmatic allies?

    Trump and the American public, have no stomach for more loony-tunes wars,. There is no need for them anyway, except to contain Chinkdom.

    The Chinks were recognized very early by our pioneers in 19th C. as being a natural threat…hence the Yellow Peril, etc. It IS a yellow peril. We see it around here on the SF Peninsula….even lots of liberals see it. Chinks are one thing and one thing only…money/ethnic power. They think we are chumps.

    JW

  54. Anon[424] • Disclaimer says:
    @joe webb

    Joe web-on , huevon , you just don`t get it

  55. @joe webb

    You should really try getting together with the poster known as attilathehen. You two sound like a match made in heaven.

  56. @The Scalpel

    Admittedly, this is all semantics, so have it your way if you want, as it is not worth the time of further debate. As for me, I prefer to have terms as precise as possible.

    I agree on all four points.

    However, if you didn’t want a debate, or at least a response, then why did you bother bringing it up? (That’s a rhetorical question, since I neither expect nor really care what the response would be; now I’m asking myself why I bothered…!!!) 🙂

    • Agree: The scalpel
  57. Wally says:
    @tamo

    If “Honkiedom crumbles” then so do the many that are supported by them.

    • Replies: @tamo
  58. @DESERT FOX

    Russia under Putin is an exporter of non GMO grains where as the U.S. exports GMO grains thatt the Chinese do not want as these GMO grains are a destuctive to humans and animals.

    I hope that’s true.

    To Hell with that GMO crap!!! Anyone using it for farming ought to be forced to drink glyphosate straight for breakfast.

    • Replies: @DESERT FOX
  59. As far as the war with China goes, we ain’t seen nothing yet. It won’t be pretty, especially considering that the US is starting it with severe self-inflicted wounds.

  60. @Anon

    Already used my “Agree” button.

  61. Wally says:
    @Cratylus

    said:
    ” Does he mean the $4700 in Google ads or the $50,000 in Facebook ads traced to some alleged Russian sources?”

    And those click-bait, revenue generating ads supported both Hillary and Trump.

    Thanks.

  62. Wally says:
    @The Scalpel

    Indeed, I’m glad this was brought up.

    Using Klare’s silly definition one could call any economic action by any state against another “a war”.
    i.e.:
    We are “at war” with Canada because we put a reciprocating tariff on Canadian lumber.

    Klare repeatedly debunks himself.

    Thanks.

  63. Cratylus says:

    Yes, and the ads were often absurd – one somehow featuring Yosemite Sam and gun rights and another for a dildo, I believe. Great for click bait maybe but not real winners for a campaign.
    As the incomparable Jimmy Dore says on his show, which should be required watching for everyone, if the Russians can swing an election with such modest resources against maybe $1-2 billion spent by the Donald and the Hillary together, then every candidate for offices high and low should run not walk with $54,700 in hand to secure a cheap and easy victory from the Russobots. 🙂

  64. peterAUS says:
    @joe webb

    So please give me the political science that has Russia and Chinkdom being natural or even pragmatic allies?

    Science?!?…Hahahahhahaha….sorry, nothing personal, just…..
    How about short, mid and long term INTERESTS of ruling elites?

    Like this:
    That fellow is both against you and me as we speak, meaning now. I can’t take him on myself, neigher can you. I don’t like you, you don’t like me, but how about we first defend against him, now, and then settle our issues tomorrow?

    As for Russia, only:
    A friend during Napoleon. An enemy for the rest of 19th century including early start of 20th. A friend against Kaiser. An enemy from ’18 to ’41. A friend from ’41 to ’45. An enemy from ’45 to ’91. A friend from ”91 to ’99. An enemy……

    B.T.W. agree with:

    Chinks are one thing and one thing only…money/ethnic power.

    • Replies: @tamo
    , @joe webb
    , @Joe Wong
  65. Cyrano says:

    I don’t think China stands the chance. As we all know diversity is strength and China is mono-cultured rather than the obviously superior multi. So China will continue to decline, while US goes from strength to strength thanks to its brilliant, brilliant multicultural philosophy.

    China was dumb enough to try real socialism, while obviously the fake one is the way to go. You convince your domestic population of your humanitarian credentials – via the phony socialism, plus you don’t have to share a cent with them. How clever is that? Phony socialism is the way to go – it eliminates the need for the real one.

    • Replies: @tamo
  66. At some point one must consider that this is all a fraud. In Washington Ocasio-Cortez and the Democrats are proposing to eviscerate the US economy with their Green New Deal. While here we find Washington launching a long term struggle for economic, political, and military superiority over China.

    As was once said in another context by an individual remembered in history, “What is truth?” A question which either revealed his own puzzlement or was simply a rhetorical dismissal of the question altogether. Likely both at the same time. One can be simply bemused by the turn of events.

    Is all this activity simply a song and dance to entertain, terrify, confuse, and amuse the public while the real ordering of the world takes place behind closed doors? Put Ocasio-Cortez together with the Pentagon and we have apparently a commitment by the US to force the entire world to immolate itself. No state shall be superior to the US and the US shall be a third world hellhole. Cui bono?

    • Replies: @atlantis_dweller
  67. @joe webb

    Russia and China are certainly not natural allies. However, deranged international banditry of the US (called foreign policy in the DC bubble) literally forced them to ally against a common threat: dying demented Empire.

    As you call Chinese “Chinks”, I suggest you stop using everything made in China, including your clothes, footwear, tools, the light bulbs in your house, etc. Then, using your likely made in China computer and certainly made in China mouse, come back and tell us how great your life has become. Or you can stick to your principles of not using China-made stuff, write a message on a piece of paper (warning: make sure that neither the paper nor the pen is made in China), put it into a bottle, and throw it in the ocean. Be patient, and in a few centuries you might get an answer.

    • Replies: @joe webb
  68. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:
    @joe webb

    Russia is currently trying to get China to ally against the West:

    ” Russia to China: Together we can rule the world ”

    https://www.politico.eu/blogs/the-coming-wars/2019/02/russia-china-alliance-rule-the-world/

    In the halls of the Kremlin these days, it’s all about China — and whether or not Moscow can convince Beijing to form an alliance against the West.

    Russia’s obsession with a potential alliance with China was already obvious at the Valdai Discussion Club, an annual gathering of Russia’s biggest foreign policy minds, in 2017.

    At their next meeting, late last year, the idea seemed to move from the speculative to something Russia wants to realize. And soon…

    Seen from Moscow, there is no resistance left to a new alliance led by China. And now that Washington has imposed tariffs on Chinese exports, Russia hopes China will finally understand that its problem is Washington, not Moscow.

    In the past, the possibility of an alliance between the two countries had been hampered by China’s reluctance to jeopardize its relations with the U.S. But now that it has already become a target, perhaps it will grow bolder. Every speaker at Valdai tried to push China in that direction.

    • Replies: @joe webb
  69. Anon[332] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean

    Pollution in China is good for the environment:

    https://www.npr.org/2018/12/05/673821051/carbon-dioxide-emissions-are-up-again-what-now-climate

    Another hurdle, reported in the journal Nature this week, is that China is cleaning up its air pollution. That sounds great for pollution-weary Chinese citizens. But climatologists point out that some of that air pollution had actually been cooling the atmosphere, by blocking out solar radiation. Ironically, less air pollution from China could mean more warming for the Earth.

    • Replies: @Wally
  70. tamo says:
    @joe webb

    You sound like a very disturbed HONKIE with low intelligence living in your poor mama’s rundown trailer. Hey HONKIE boy, how is your dumb NEGRO boyfriend doing?

  71. tamo says:
    @peterAUS

    You also sound like another disturbed HONKIE like your your lover boy #2, Joe from west virginia.

  72. joe webb says:
    @AnonFromTN

    you must be a chink. No other race invented free speech and elections, especially the chinks.

    The Jews never did so either. This is what Trait means. It is biological.

    We Whites invented just about everything including computers.

    Where I live, the chinks are pissing the liberals off. They are rude,, etc.

    I would gladly pay twice the money for my computer if it was made in the US.

    Presidents for life, etc. Chinks will never change, like the Jews, etc.

    There are always outliers…a chink acquaintance , a MD, says that in China, you don’t necessarily go to jail, you just go nowhere if you do not follow the party line.

    Whites are the only race worth a shit, and sometimes I wonder whether the whole deal, Whites included. are not hopeless

    Still , if you want relative peace and luv, stay with your own kind, The chinks know this, the Jews know this, etc, etc. Only Whites save the whales, etc, etc.

    Save Ourselves . That is the main deal.

    The rest of the inferior races, espeially the chinks, are dangerous to a small d democratic politics.
    Free Speech …Chinks laugh, and Jews try to figure out how to kill it too.

    Joe Webb

  73. joe webb says:
    @peterAUS

    good point. Ruling elites have their money and their ideological “hegemony” of sorts.

    Money, with which the Left is obsessed, is only the vehicle to Power.

    Trump has put a dent in the GOP ideology, which , like communism and socialism, is economistic.

    The Trump white peasantry has bruised the System.

    I recall Uncle Karl saying somewhere that a revolution just kicks down a rotten door. No need to use a battering ram.

    Liberalism is a door rotting. It is rotting , including Conservatism, Inc., thru economism, race equality ideology, the Muds sliding into our country , and Europe, dragging down IQ, and soon they will conquer the voting booth as well. That is when the guns come out.

    The chinks have joined the Dem Party and will feed at the trough along with the other minority racists. Their alliance is unstable, but they all still vote Dem.

    The new Populism, flawed to be sure, particularly Trump’s own brand of economism (supply side standard GOP economics), is challenging the Old Order, the System.

    Race is All.

    I am about finished with Thucidides, The Peloponnesian War. Any argument that the ancients were not racist is refuted in T. The Ionians and the Dorians applied racialist terms
    to one-another, and they were all Greeks, spoke Greek, although had slightly differing dialects, etc

    The current elites will be dismantled, at least in the GOP. The Dems will embrace the Disparity ideology. That is the new Word for anti-racist ideology. Equality of outcomes, etc.

    This will destroy the Dems just as it helps destroy the GOP. It will take time however.

    Feminism also is harming both Left and Right, although it seems the Dems are more vulnerable.

    Meanwhile a White Nationalism, sans idiots like Richard Spencer and other nazis, will emerge although without that name. That will be the Next Big Thing.

    However it may take a civil war to so accomplish it.

    Joe Webb

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Wally
  74. Wally says:
    @Anon

    CO2 is not a pollutant and is not warming the planet.

    The higher the CO2 levels the better it is for plant life, you know, real green stuff.

    “99.9 percent of the Earth’s surface heat capacity is in the oceans and less than 0.1 percent is in the atmosphere. Further, CO2 is only 0.04 percent of the atmosphere. It beggars belief that a trace gas (CO2), in an atmosphere that itself contains only a trace amount of the total thermal energy on the surface of the Earth, can control the climate of the Earth. This is not the tail wagging the dog, this is a flea on the tail of the dog wagging the dog.”

    • Replies: @Sean
  75. @joe webb

    And they call us “white ghosts”. So maybe they’ve already wiped us out in their minds.

    The white race extends all the way from Vladivostok to the Rio Grande and numbers about a billion, less than that of just the Indian subcontinent. Naturally Russians, Europeans and North Americans should stick together against all the rest as they’ll all be under threat of the population explosion from the south. But then Russia has no choice but to seek other allies when Europe and US are the ones who are being hostile. Then again, who is working against this most essential race preserving unity?

  76. tamo says:
    @joe webb

    The same garbage from an inbred HONKIE,with IQ of 69 that is about the level of IQ in west virgia where all “SUPERIOR” HONKIES reside, LOL !!!!

  77. @joe webb

    Sorry to disappoint, I am not a Chink, I am white. I would also gladly pay twice the money for things made somewhere decent. I always search for those, but in the last ~10 years I search w/o success. The best you can find now is made in Vietnam, or in Philippines, etc. I am talking about the US, which voluntarily got itself into this hole. I mean, greedy corporations got us into this hole, but we allowed this to happen, and therefore cannot pretend to be innocent.

    So, what’s your recipe?

    BTW, look at any paper or turn on your TV: free speech is dead. What do we do?

    • Replies: @tamo
    , @joe webb
  78. anon[228] • Disclaimer says:
    @joe webb

    There has never been any natural ally . Never will be It is on the interests , relations are built. Only time the emotion will trump interest when the trust is gone. Who believes now US? US doesn’t believe/trust itself Look at Iran deal withdrawal.

  79. @jacques sheete

    Russia forbids the importing of GMO seeds of grain and other agriculture products, enter Russian agriculture or Russia farming in youtube, there are dozens of videos of Russian farming and by the way sugar beets in Russia are non GMO and here in the U.S. sugar beets and corn and soybeans etc. are all GMO!

  80. jpb says:
    @mikemikev

    The USA has lost strategic air superiority, as well as strategic brain power. I wonder how the USA would look after a week of retaliatory aerospace strikes?

    • Replies: @mikemikev
  81. tamo says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Yes, I know you are a HONKIE.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  82. peterAUS says:
    @joe webb

    Money…..is only the vehicle to Power.

    Yep. Power is everything.

    Liberalism is a door rotting. It is rotting , including Conservatism, Inc., thru economism, race equality ideology, the Muds sliding into our country , and Europe, dragging down IQ, and soon they will conquer the voting booth as well.

    Yep.

    That is when the guns come out.

    Yep. The problem of that step…the Devil is in details. Like, “they” have most of the guns, etc.
    Timing is the key.
    Even the “progtards” would understand that concept; a “regime change” in Germany a week after The Ultimate Evil, I mean Hitler, came to power. Would’ve been relatively easy. 7 years later, not quite.

    Getting Muslim question solved now shouldn’t be a problem in Europe if the will was there. 10 years from now, not that easy. 20 years from now, probably rather hard. Etc.

    The chinks have joined the Dem Party and will feed at the trough along with the other minority racists. Their alliance is unstable, but they all still vote Dem.

    Yep. Numbers.

    Meanwhile a White Nationalism, sans idiots like Richard Spencer and other nazis, will emerge although without that name. That will be the Next Big Thing.

    That’s an interesting point.
    As for Spencer, well, I do find some rather good stuff in his podcasts..

    However it may take a civil war to so accomplish it.

    Yep.

    • Replies: @Wally
  83. @Wally

    Agreed, well written comment Wally.
    (i have not commented enough lately to use the agree button, so i have to type it..)

  84. @Anonymous

    the writer outed him self as a shill for the murican mic and regime in that sentence i believe.

  85. Herald says:
    @WorkingClass

    Sanctions which are designed to limit the wealth and growth of another country just because the crazies in Washington don’t like it are indeed a form of warfare. You need to recognise that the US is going down a very dangerous road.

    • Agree: DESERT FOX
  86. Wally says:
    @joe webb

    said:
    “Meanwhile a White Nationalism, sans idiots like Richard Spencer and other nazis, will emerge although without that name. ”

    Yawn.

    So tell us what you think the Nazis supposedly did, with proof.

    We await, no dodging.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @joe webb
  87. tamo says:
    @Wally

    Wow, what a tragedy !!!!!

  88. Wally says:
    @peterAUS

    said:
    “The Ultimate Evil, I mean Hitler, came to power.. ”

    Tell us, with proof, what was “evil” about Hitler. Please actually present some proof, or at least try.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  89. peterAUS says:
    @Wally

    Well, you are on my ignore list but I clicked on the comment for two reasons:
    1. To confirm what must’ve triggered you. Sad, actually. Keyword “thick”.
    2. More importantly, though, I am just curious about something. You see, there is an author on this site (with attached following, of course) who believes, apparently, that a certain country, regime, is simply perfect.

    So, a question for you: was there ANYTHING wrong with Nazi Germany in general and Mr. Hitler in particular?
    Just one thing would suffice. One.
    For example, that SS breeding program. I am sure that, as a resident expert on the regime, you know about it.
    How about “Fuhrer principle”? A man is a fragile creature. Age, stress, sickness can diminish even the greatest. So, some checks and balances would be in order. I guess.

    At least that would prove that those obsessed with “Nazi” thing have at least a modicum of critical thinking. That would be miles ahead of “slant-eyes” worshipers.

    All yours………

    • Replies: @MEFOBILLS
  90. @tamo

    If living in a fantasy world makes you happier, so be it.

    • Replies: @tamo
  91. Canda says:
    @joe webb

    I think Joe Webb is an Indian. Jai Hind!

  92. tamo says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Frankly, I really don’t give a damn about what you say. But do not use racial slurs FIRST. I use racial slurs ONLY in RESPONSE to the comments that contain them, in retaliation. If you don’t use racial slurs, I wouldn’t either.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  93. nsa says:
    @DB Cooper

    DB,
    Thanks for the PCB mfg video. Asian roboticized surface mount assembly plants are even more impressive. At one time supplied specialized instrumentation to the FN factory in South Carolina where the 50 cal machine guns are made, and received a tour. Crude by Asian standards, but efficient in its own way. Base price on a 50 LMG at the time was $5k without any of the extras: tripod, flash suppressor, water cooling, advanced night vision sights, etc. Base price would be $10k by now. The US Guv does not allow this kind of production to go offshore…….but apparently cares not a jot about the production of consumer electronics, a massive and growing worldwide market. Have read the Chinese shops assemble $1000 I-pods for as little as $5 each including parts sourcing, making domestic production here impractical. Surprisingly, the Germans manage to produce high end electronics and their manufacturing labor rates are even higher than North America. Says something about the skill and diligence level of the US workforce…..where just passing a drug test and not having felonies or bad credit is a major achievement.

  94. MEFOBILLS says:
    @peterAUS

    Wow, this statement about SS breeding being bad is pretty devoid of intellectual rigor.

    For example, that SS breeding program. I am sure that, as a resident expert on the regime, you know about it.

    Why would anybody be for dysgenics? Much of the world’s population has an average IQ of 90. Some places like Sub-Sahara Africa and regions of India are in the 70’s.

    No civilization can arise when the people are that dumb …. it is impossible.

    It is also possible for a population to regress… to fall into dysgenics when bright people stop breeding. The SS breeding program was Eugenic’s to its core, where genetically fit and bright people were given precedence over those who were unfit.

    Anybody who uses logic will understand that an improved human is better than one who is depraved and dysgenic.

    Now “who gets to decide” is an entirely different question.

    As a sidebar, our Chinese friends are already engaging in genetic research to improve their intellectual capacity. They are trying to isolate those genes responsible for genius, and then spreading said genes in their population.

    China doesn’t have butt-hurt Jews in their population holding them back.

  95. @tamo

    I only repeated a slur used by a commenter I responded to. The contents of my post and the one I responded to must be clear enough. If they are not, I can’t help it.

    • Replies: @tamo
  96. peterAUS says:

    Wow, this statement about SS breeding being bad is pretty devoid of intellectual rigor.

    That’s possible.
    It’s also possible that you haven’t actually taken a very good look at how it actually worked.

    How about you do that (there are even some good online documentaries showing the real footage) and then we resume this conversation ?

    As for

    Now “who gets to decide” is an entirely different question.

    yep, for your types.
    For my types that’s very important part of the same question. Any question, actually, regarding humans.

    Don’t tell me you are one of “Wally” types. O.K. The same question for you, then: was there ANYTHING the Nazi regime in general and Mr. Hitler in particular, were wrong about?
    Just one thing.

    • Replies: @Anon
  97. tamo says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Then you should have used the scare quotes around the offending slur. But you DID NOT so that I assumed you used the offending word on your own.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  98. tamo says:

    No problem, you are a gentleman, thank you.

  99. Anon[349] • Disclaimer says:
    @peterAUS

    The correct strategy to defeat the Soviet Union, for starters.

  100. Chuck says:

    Goy on goy action makes Schlomo hard.

  101. Herald says:
    @Anonymous

    Yes, it is quite off putting, even though most of the article is quite sound. Possibly Klare was obliged to add this bit of nonsense in order to get it published in TomDispatch but who knows.

  102. mikemikev says:
    @jpb

    Conventional “aerospace strikes”? Care to do the math on that one?

  103. Beibdnn says:
    @joe webb

    Not a chance. 20 years ago Russia and China had worked out what the U.S. was about and signed a treaty that basically states they will not interfere with each others internal affairs amongst other things. The U.S. lives in fantasy land if it thinks it can outwit Russia or out produce China. Each year the ninternal Chinese market grows. 1.4 billion people can far more easily out spend 300 million. India is sitting on the fence but with one foot on the Chino-Russo side. That’s another 1.3 billion people to out spend. Then there are the natural rescources, of which Russia has significantly more than the U.S.A. One only has to see where Russia and Chinese technology is heading to know that as each day passes, the U.S. is falling further behind and doesn’t have the potential to get back in front.

  104. Sean says:
    @Wally

    This is not the tail wagging the dog, this is a flea on the tail of the dog wagging the dog.

    You have never seen a dog trying to get at a flea,

  105. Erebus says:
    @nsa

    A good friend supplies hi-end PCBs to EU & RU electronics mfrs, particularly in DE. Judging by the numbers I hear, hi-end electronics is still very much alive in Europe while it’s all but dead in NA.

    It’s a capital intensive business, and raw labour cost is a minor component in the total cost of doing business. NA has put so many socio-political obstructions & regulatory costs in the way that even at min wage it makes no business sense to locate there. I doubt it would make sense even with free labour.

    As Steve Jobs told Obama point blank, “Those jobs aren’t coming back”. NA’s manufacturing ecosystem (rather than mere infrastructure), which includes social-cultural aspects as well as physical plant has been disappeared, and only dire necessity will build a new one. I explicitly avoid the word “rebuild”, as that train left the station years ago. NA still “assembles” stuff, but it doesn’t manufacture except on a small, niche scale.

    Manufacturing is a difficult and very demanding business. 21st C manufacturing is not simply an extension of the 20th’s. It’s a radically different hybrid of logistics, design & production engineering, “smart” plant, and financial mgmt.

    Not for the faint of heart. Much easier to flip burgers/houses/stocks/used cars/derivatives/credit swaps/… until there’s nothing left to flip.

    • Replies: @Miro23
    , @TT
  106. Where a war begins – or ends – can be hard to define. Michael Klare is right, ‘War’ and ‘peace’ are not ‘polar opposites’. We often look at wars in chronological abstraction: the First World War started on the 28th July 1914. Or did it only become a global war one week later when Great Britain declared war on Germany? The causes can be of long duration. The decline of the Ottoman Empire, for which the other Great Powers were positioning themselves to benefit, might have begun as far back as 1683 when the Turks were defeated at the Battle of Vienna. It ultimately led to the events of 1914.
    Great power rivalry has always led to wars; in the last hundred years world wars. Graham Allison wrote that the US can ‘avoid catastrophic war with China while protecting and advancing American national interests’ if it follows the lessons of the Cold War. History shows that wars are caused by the clash of interests, that’s always at some else’s expense. When core interests collide there is no alternative to war – however destructive.
    https://www.ghostsofhistory.wordpress.com/

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  107. Jason Liu says:

    The trade war is meh.

    The real conflict is a cultural/ideological war in which liberal democracy tries to apply its system worldwide under the delusion that egalitarianism, freedom, your definition of rights, is universal.

    China will never accept this. Russia is already fighting back. Nor does any developing country look like they will ever truly embrace western values. It’s gonna be SWPLs + WEIRDs vs The Rest of Humanity.

    The new Cold War will last much longer than any trade issue and conflict over values will always be the underlying motivation, until the west either ends its universalist crusade, or abolishes liberal democracy within its own borders.

  108. raywood says:

    I would be more sympathetic with Klare’s fear of cold war with China if he could just assure me that Chinese writers are equally able to voice concern with their own government’s side of the equation.

  109. peterAUS says:
    @peter mcloughlin

    Great power rivalry has always led to wars…..

    History shows that wars are caused by the clash of interests, that’s always at some else’s expense. When core interests collide there is no alternative to war – however destructive.

    Pretty much, BUT, with one little difference re “some else’s expense” now. M.A.D. scenario.

    Even limited exchange of thermonuclear M.I.R.V.s could affect everyone (even if somebody can define that “limited” in the first place).

    My take: we haven’t developed, as species, along our capability for destruction.
    Cheerful thought, I know.

  110. denk says:

    Pepe Escobar says
    ‘US elites remain incapable of understanding China’

    That’s B.S., Pepe should’ve known better .
    They dont ‘misunderstand’, they’r simply lying thru their teeth.

    The following are all bald faced lies,
    Classic bandits crying robbery.

    Lawmaker: Chinese navy seeks to encircle US homeland
    [bravo, This one really takes the cake !]

    US Accuses China Of Preparing For World War III

    US accuses China of trying to militarise and dominates space

    USN have to patrol the SCS to protect FON for international shipping..

    tip of an iceberg

    Those who uttered such nonsense aint insane, stupid or cuz they ‘misunderstand’ [sic] China.
    They know we know they’r telling bald faced lies
    but that doesnt stop them lying with straight face .

    This is the classic def of psychopaths…
    people who’r utterly amoral, no sense of right or wrong, there’s no such word as embarrassment in their vocab.

    Is it sheer coincidence that all the 5lies have been ruled by such breeds ?
    Ask Ian Fleming’s fundamental law of prob.

    but why couldnt they produce one decent leader
    in all of three hundred years.
    5lies have more than their fair share of psychopaths no doubt, but surely not everybody is like joe web and co., I know this for a fact. ?

    Trouble is….

    Washington DC is a veritable cesspool that
    no decent man would want to dip his foot into it.
    They might as well put it in the job requirement,
    ‘Only psychopaths need apply
    Thats why in the DC cesspool, only the society’s dregs rise up to the top.

    A case of garbage in, garbage out.

    A vicious circle that cant be fixed, except to be broken.

  111. @Sean

    “Better to reign in hell. Anyway, there is hardly a tree left in China and since 2006, China has been the world’s largest emitter of CO2 annually and though they pay lip service they accept no binding target for reduction; quite the opposite.”

    News to NASA apparently! Look for yourself: https://nasasearch.nasa.gov/search?query=China+greening&affiliate=nasa&utf8=%E2%9C%93

    The rest of your post is equally stupid and ignorant. Really, before you post in a site like this you should at least try to be a bit up to date and make sure that your contribution has some validity.

  112. joe webb says:
    @Wally

    Spencer has been appointed by the jewyorktimes to speak for WN. Spencer is an alcoholic, which if he could get a cure, might rehabilitate him, but his ego will still dog him.

    Hitler, etc. is total bad optics as they say. Better to keep discussion of him elsewhere.

    In my experience while on the Left, always a social-democrat type and anti Vietnam war, etc, I was struck by how “going to the extreme” logical end of a any position that claims totality, is predictable, when Theoreticism dominates. Thank Darwin, we do not have an Extremist Position from a scientific point of view. Ergo, SS strutting is not only counter-productive, but illogical.

    Practical politics as in incremental gains, is very important. For example, today, there is a lot of criticism of Trump, from the Right. Whoa! is my tendency, being an older guy. Trump has to tack close to the wind, to survive. There is no great over the beam wind to send him and us racing towards a finish line.

    Gregory Hood at Am Ren is an example of hate-Trump from the Racial Right. Jared Taylor has also allowed Greg Johnson a berth at Am Ren. This is a disaster for us and for Am Ren. I don’t know what Taylor is thinking about…maybe getting an entree to Europe thru GJ?

    The Left talked about Contradictions of Capitalism. OK. The contradictions of both political parties are manifest. The Dem minority racists hate one-another, more or less. The GOP has its money guys, neo-cons, Trump peasantry, Jews/Israel/luv and both parties Got Racial Equality as their major contradiction, that is, a contradiction with biological reality. Nature always wins.

    So. my older guy semi-moderation in Tactics as the cliche goes, does not contradict the , pardon me, Strategy of White Survival.

    If moderation in tactics fails, we got all the 300 million guns in private hands in the US.

    Self-Defense, Racial Defense, White Defense, Civilizational Defense, Defense of Free Speech, the signal accomplishment of Whites and no other race, especially chinks.

    Joe Webb

    • Replies: @tamo
    , @denk
  113. tamo says:
    @joe webb

    You are a delusional low- iq HONKIE shitbag loser. LOL!!!

  114. joe webb says:
    @AnonFromTN

    OK glad to hear you are not a chink. Your money remarks suggested that to me.

    The recipe is put it on a slow-cooker and see what develops. Right now, Trump for example, has played his cards well with regard to Mueller and the Palace coup keystone cops. If Barr follows up on all of this with prosecution…it will be very instructive for the White US electorate.

    Various arguments…Trump has screwed up on The Wall. Maybe so and maybe not. Worse comes to worst, and more Invasion follows, the screws are tightened on Whites.

    We are in a counter-revolutionary time. Politics is Everything, Polarization Continues.

    I read somewhere that when the earnest argument is met with ridicule, the proper response is more earnestness…not flaming bombast.

    We got Time. Even if the Dems take 2020, they will continue to make plenty of mistakes and it will expose them to more sunlit disasters like the recent hoaxes, and Mueller’s band of fuk-ups.

    There is not much else to do. The main thing is no more mistakes…like Charlottesville and the Heil Trumpers. Meanwhile Europe continues to develop in the right direction.

    Joe Webb

    • Replies: @tamo
    , @AnonFromTN
    , @peterAUS
  115. tamo says:
    @joe webb

    Hey dumb HONKIE, your miserable life is sealed because by 2043, your favorite peoples, blacks and Hispanics will be a majority in your good old U.S.A. Meanwhile you’d better train yourself how to kiss their stinking butts, ok, my dear HONKIE boy? LMAO !!!!!

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
  116. @joe webb

    That sounds almost Buddhist. There is a Russian joke that to a Buddhist the answers to the key Russian questions “Who is to blame?” and “What is to be done?” are obvious: 1) nobody; 2) nothing.

  117. Joe Wong says:
    @joe webb

    It is too slow and too troublesome to pry Russia away from China. The easiest way for the USA to win wars over China is to eliminate the human resource advantage the Chinese has. Open the USA borders wide open and encourage 1 billion South Aemricans, Africans, SE Asians and South Asians into the USA is the fastest and easiest way to close the human resource gap between the USA and China.

    • Replies: @tamo
    , @jeff stryker
  118. 1) People from China PRC has as a people on the whole become quite disgusting. But please exclude ppl from Hong Kong, Taiwan, Tibetans, Uyghurs etc. I confirm that PRC China people by and large are now locusts of the world. I am one of them by birth. how did it happen? Deep question for philosophers. It wasn’t like this 60 years ago. some poisonous element entered the veins of the collective, infected at least 70 percent. I worry for Russia due to its inflated self confidence when dealing with PRC. Lake Baikal deal was almost sealed before it got shelved. Still, using racial curses don’t hurt anyone but yourself. All the big internet advocates for Russia such as Orlov and Saker and Karlin don’tunderstand The Danger of China PRC. If you understand then you have a responsibility to keep yourself décent and respectable.
    2) USA aside from its liberals and Zionist Jews etc. Has become a slowly stewing big asylum for psychologically infantile and demented big babies. How did it happen again is a big philosophical myth to me. Western Europe is sinking primarily because they came to resemble the US. especially French and Brits and Spanish.
    3) Russia is ruled by a few individuals with brains and maybe a bit of conscience but the elite ruling class behave in such a way that one would conclude that they share the China PRC virus, just not as advanced. Your basic Russian people are in a state of abject degradation dejection, not changed all that much since 1990s. Only slightly ahead of the Ukrainians. If one cares about Russia then shove aside 19th century naive romanticism and face reality.
    4) A sustained and massive war by USA against China maybe the only miniscule chance Greek/Christian civilization can be saved. Otherwise descend of history into thousand year dark age. The latter is more likely due to advanced stage of brain dead disease gripping the entire West.

    • Replies: @atlantis_dweller
  119. peterAUS says:
    @joe webb

    Spencer has been appointed by the jewyorktimes to speak for WN. Spencer is an alcoholic….

    Not bad…….
    Gets better:

    If moderation in tactics fails, we got all the 300 million guns in private hands in the US.

    And the best:

    We got Time.

    O.K.

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
    , @joe webb
  120. @tamo

    TAMO

    If you have observed cities like Detroit or Greater Los Angeles than you know that “white flight” as oppose to sycophancy is the end result of black or Hispanic populations reaching a certain level. Whites leave and the US then has another internal third world like Detroit or East LA.

    It is a game of musical chairs where the white move into remote hinterlands, which develop into suburbs or exurbs, then of course as these become population centers the blacks and Hispanics enter them and the whites flee…again.

    What you will see is white flight from the US with the wealthiest whites simply moving to other developed countries. The 1% would move to New Zealand or Tasmania.

    • Agree: Miro23
  121. @Joe Wong

    JOE

    The best way for the US to win a war over China is not to outsource their labor there.

    There is no way the US could win a conventional war with China. It cannot even win a conventional war in Afghanistan.

    China managed to fight off-if not defeat-the US in Korea and Vietnam.

  122. The handicap for the USA in the confrontation is twofold its élite are in conflict (and afraid, and contemptuous of) at least half of their own populace.
    Plus, all the resources of all kinds directed to enterprises in the Middle East, subtracted thusly from other enterprises.

    Furthermore, there is the occasional bullying of Europe, and the continuous bullying of Russia, yet more resource drains.
    The USA spreads itself too thin, perhaps.

  123. Joe Wong says:
    @peterAUS

    Chinese are neither for money nor for ethnic power, Chinese is for 5 principles of peaceful coexistence, treating all nations large and small as equal with respect.

    Chinese believes we are now living in a rapidly changing world … Peace, development, cooperation and mutual benefit have become the trend of our times. To keep up with the times, we cannot have ourselves physically living in the 21st century, but with a mindset belonging to the past stalled in the oldays of colonialism, and constrained by the zero-sum Cold War mentality.

    Chinese is determined to help the world to achieve harmony, peace and prosperity thru the win-win approaches.

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
    , @peterAUS
  124. @peterAUS

    The leaders of the White Race include Richard Spencer, a failed writer and professional student who was still in college in his 30’s. Tommy Morrison, a poor low-class Brit football hooligan.

    And Milo. A Jewish homosexual who french-kisses his boyfriend in public.

    Yep, these guys are really going to lead the white race to victory spouting platitudes.

    My understanding is that Richard Spencer, preserver of European culture, had no idea where his ancestors WERE FROM and and had to take the 23 and me test!

  125. @James Wood

    Pilate. I wonder whether he actually asked that question.

  126. @Китайский дурак

    2) The riddle reads simply: democracy, multiracialism, economic welfare (no-limit printing of currency made possible by uncontested military “overmatch”).

  127. @Joe Wong

    JOE

    I lived in the Philippines and would chalk that up to fairly typical of a country run by China since it is effectively controlled by a syndicate of Fujian family cartels.

    First, you have a choke-hold on the economy and wages are depressed to near starvation levels.

    Second, Chinese will bring corruption to the nth degree by bribing whichever politician will serve their own interests at the expense of the public.

    Thirdly, those Chinese who cannot succeed in business will get into the drug trade and China and Taiwan has created the Philippines drug war by making meth.

    Fourth, there are fiery pogroms when the local population react with “burnouts” and innocent Chinese are killed.

    This is on the horizon in Africa. Probably.

    In the West, Chinese were held in check by Jews and WASPS and to some degree by Malaysians. I see Africa becoming like the Philippines once Chinese can become citizens there, however.

  128. Joe Wong says:
    @Biff

    The Romans create a desert and call it peace; British Empire imitated Roman Empire, USA is born out of British Empire; so only the White People particular the Anglo-Saxon is not ready for peace or salvation. But rest of the world has been waiting for peace or salvation for a long long time.

    • Replies: @Patricus
  129. peterAUS says:
    @Joe Wong

    Chinese are neither for money nor for ethnic power, Chinese is for 5 principles of peaceful coexistence, treating all nations large and small as equal with respect.

    Peace, development, cooperation and mutual benefit have become the trend of our times.

    Chinese is determined to help the world to achieve harmony, peace and prosperity thru the win-win approaches.

    Three options here:
    Preferably,you are just pulling our legs. Not bad attempt, actually. Got me for a second.

    Most likely, you are simply working. Sloppy and crude but, well, “you get what you pay for”. 50 Cent Army. Retired but needing money. Sucks, a?

    Crazy and the least probable, you really believe in all that. Ah, well…

    • Replies: @Joe Wong
  130. Joe Wong says:
    @jeff stryker

    Obviously you are brain washed by the ‘god-fearing’ morally defunct evil ‘Anglo-Saxon’, blaming every of your own failure on the Chinese just like what the Americans and their Five-Eyes partners are doing right now.

    The Filippino, the Malay and all the SE Asia locals have the guns not the Chinese, if the Chinese do not hand over their hard earned money they will use what their ex-colonial masters taught them since Vasco da Gama discovered the East Indies, masscared the Chinese and took it all. The Dutch, Spanish, English, Japanese and the American all have done it before in order to colonized the East Indies.

    Before WWII, the American is just one of the Western imperialists ravaged and wreaked havoc of Asia with barbaric wars, illicit drugs like Opium, slavery, stealing, robbing, looting, plundering, murdering, torturing, exploiting, polluting, culture genocide, ‘pious’ fanaticism, unmatchable greed and extreme brutality. In fact it is hard to tell the difference between the American and the unrepentant war criminal Japanese who is more lethal and barbaric to Asians until the Pearl Harbour incident.

    For over seventy years the US has dominated Asia, ravaging the continent with two major wars in Korea and Indo-China with millions of casualties, and multiple counter-insurgency interventions in Indonesia, Thailand, Malaysia, the Philippines, Timor, Myanmar, Pakistan and Afghanistan. The strategic goal has been to expand its military and political power, exploit the economies and resources and encircle China.

    USA is 10,000 miles away on the other side of the Pacific. USA is not an Asian nation, and American is an alien to Asia. American is a toxin and a plague to Asian, They have done enough damage to Asian already, they are not wanted, not invited and not loved in Asia, go home Yankee.

  131. Joe Wong says:
    @peterAUS

    You should know the White man has some fallacies built into their culture, such as they believe that the White man’s words must be taken as given truth, only the White man can invent and the White man can succeed, and the Whte man’s culture is the final form of civilization.

    The West (Europeans and their offshoots like the American, Aussie, etc.) is where is now, because of those hundreds of millions of people all over the world who were robbed and murdered, those who become victims of their very madness of colonialism and orientalism, of the crusades and the slave and Opium trades. Cathedrals and palaces, museums and theatres, train stations – all had been constructed on horrid foundations of bones and blood, and amalgamated by tears.

    The West squandered all the wealth they obtained thru stealing, looting and murdering hundreds of millions of people all over the world in the scrabbling of a dog-eat-dog play rough over the monopoly to plunder the rest of the world through two World Wars, one on the edge of Armageddon, and on the verge of another Armageddon. It proves the West is incapable of bringing peace and prosperity to the mankind because of their flawed culture, civilization and religion. The chaos and suffering of the world in the last few hundreds of years under the dominance the West proves they are a failure.

    Human beings deserve better, we need to depart from the chaotic and harmful world order and path established by the moronic West. China proposed a new way of life, a win-win approach for the well-being of mankind like Belt-Road-Initiative to build and trade the world into peace, harmony and prosperity. The West should not be the obstacle for achieving such refreshing winner for all initiative. The West should embrace the new approach proposed by China because the West will benefit from it. I call upon you, let go the old, obsolete, failed and detrimental believe passed onto you by your colonialist forebears please, welcome the new era.

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
  132. Miro23 says:
    @Erebus

    As Steve Jobs told Obama point blank, “Those jobs aren’t coming back”. NA’s manufacturing ecosystem (rather than mere infrastructure), which includes social-cultural aspects as well as physical plant has been disappeared, and only dire necessity will build a new one. I explicitly avoid the word “rebuild”, as that train left the station years ago. NA still “assembles” stuff, but it doesn’t manufacture except on a small, niche scale.

    Manufacturing is a difficult and very demanding business. 21st C manufacturing is not simply an extension of the 20th’s. It’s a radically different hybrid of logistics, design & production engineering, “smart” plant, and financial mgmt.

    Not for the faint of heart. Much easier to flip burgers/houses/stocks/used cars/derivatives/credit swaps/… until there’s nothing left to flip.

    All true, leaving the question of what happens to North America before it reaches the African street market economy (low tech, low investment, low trust, basic products, vibrant and over each morning).

    The Western European based US economy is fast draining out (along with people of Western European descent) and the days of US world manufacturing leadership (1950’s) are a distant memory.

    Maybe the takeaway from US/Chinese history is that the US needs its own Maoist style Cultural Revolution. Nothing short of US Maoism is needed to root out every aspect of the current rotten system and get a fresh start from zero.

    Don’t ask what happens to US nuclear weapons.

  133. @Joe Wong

    JOE

    If Chinese took over the world it would look like the Philippines.

    Shabu labs everywhere? Corrupt politicians blowing away homeless squatters when some Chinese guy wanted to build a shopping center or Chinese arsonists setting squats on fire? Dictators living off wages Chinese don’t want to pay exploited peasants?

    No thanks, the whites don’t want Chinese family cartels running our economies. We can see the harm you have done in Burma, Philippines etc.

    • Replies: @Joe Wong
  134. @jeff stryker

    This Joe Wong is obviously a WuMao (professional trolls paid by Beijing to parrot their government’s pathological propaganda). Any mainland Chinese who can read will confirm this fact. It is not worth your time to deal with folks like him.

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
    , @Joe Wong
  135. @Китайский дурак

    Maybe, but my posts are intended for those that think a Chinese-run planet would be a better New World Order.

    Visit the Philippines.

    Australians all wrapped up in America should pay close attention.

  136. @jeff stryker

    Australians, Philippines, Singaporeans, Vietnamese, Taiwanese, Russians, Italians, Japanese,Mongolians, Koreans, New Zealanders, a tiny anguished minority of mainland Chinese themselves, everyone has gotten the mail, everyone has seen them on the streets, everyone understood — what a Beijing lorded world shall be like, coffee beans in the morning. Americans are last in getting the news. Americans can be dim witted. Too many Nobel winning economists and globalist bankers in America. And China is the gift of these white people to the world.

  137. joe webb says:
    @peterAUS

    thanks and if you are a young man, congrats for your rationality. I am old, but probably have ten or 20 years left, if not all those years real fit.

    The young guys need to not fuc themselves up with regard to earning a living….keep your mouth shut , sort of, and your name protected.

    I hope a new generation of “White Nationalists” come along sans Hitlerism. Stay rational, with just the facts M’am…if you don’t recall that line…it was Dragnet and Detective Jack Webb…I think….you are young, Congrats.

    Stick to the facts, keep your ego under control, keep a smile on your face….. Buddhist wisdom to spread a little love around and it is essential for snaring a woman.

    The Facts are with us. The Future is with us, including hard times, civil war, and so on. The Sentimental Lie (Joseph Conrad) of race equality cannot stand for long.

    Joe Webb

  138. @jeff stryker

    Australian people nowadays are far less wrapped up in America than at any time that I can remember but Australian politicians are just as bought and paid for as are those in the US.

    Australians generally are much more well travelled than most Americans and have been to various places both in Asia and Europe, especially the UK. Despite having seen the longer term results of “diversity” with their own eyes they overwhelmingly seem to think that things will somehow work out differently in Australia. To even suggest that mass immigration from the third world is a ticking time-bomb is to be branded a racist of the very worst kind.

  139. Yee says:

    jeff stryker,

    “The best way for the US to win a war over China is not to outsource their labor there.”

    Too bad you don’t get to decide what “the best way for the US” is, no matter how many times you vote… America has owners, and the owners aren’t the average Americans.

    PS. Philippines is just the poor-man version of USA. Does the American capitalist class have many concerns for their working class? The money class are all the same.

    Your rant about Chinese of SE Asia is also quite similar with that of American Whites for the Jews, or South African Blacks for the Whites, just only on economic side, not politics.

    People aren’t much different everywhere…

  140. Nzn says:

    Filipinos are nothing but semi retarded 85 IQ trying hard Americans, the vast majority who are too stupid to copy the better parts of US high culture, and so ape and cargo cult the trashiest and lowest of the low parts of US culture, or maybe low IQ Austronesians are just prone to overall trashiness unless they are regulated by a somewhat draconian conservative culture like Muslim Malays are.

  141. Joe Wong says:
    @Китайский дурак

    Perhaps some Russians like you are willing to live under the Anglo-Saxon’s dominance, submitted to Anglo-Saxon’s zero-sum, beggar-thy-neighbour, negative energy infested cult culture, and try to talk like them and walk like them, but not everybody is like those feeble Russians. Other people has their long history, culture and identity to protect. Please do not smear other people’s integrity because you are lack of it.

  142. denk says:
    @joe webb

    Self-Defense, Racial Defense, White Defense, Civilizational Defense, Defense of Free Speech, the signal accomplishment of Whites and no other race, especially chinks.

    Dont laugh, this guy is dead serious. !!

    See,
    When the intruding USAF obliterated the Iraq, Libyan, Syrian AA batteries, they actually called it ‘self defence’. !!
    IN that Sense, what else isnt ‘self defence’ ?

    no wonder all that wars since ww2 become ‘defensive ‘ , or ‘Civilizational Defense’ from the chinks/gooks/rag heads…….!!

    We fight them over there so that we wont have to fight them over here !

    joe really believes in his own B.S.
    IOW, a certified psychopath.
    His exactly the kind of guy attracted to the DC cesspool, when any half decent guy wont touch it with a ten feet pole.
    Isnt he a self confessed Trumpster ?

    This is the kind of guys running the 5lies…
    The Blairs, Camerons, Turnbulls, Howards, Bushes, Clintons, obamas, Trumps..
    joe would be right at home amongst that mob,
    is it any wonder that the world is such a sorry mess. ?

    joe and co obviously have no qualm bombing China etc, back to stone age, they were in fact
    the main engine behind murikkan imperialism ever since 1785, but when you listen to their incessant whining, they’r actually not at fault, its always ‘the jews make us do all these shits’ !

    So what sucks even more than a white trash supremacist ?
    [Ans], a WTS who has no gut to take responsibility for his own conviction !

    • Replies: @denk
    , @joe webb
  143. denk says:
    @denk

    Self-Defense, Civilizational Defense,

    Exhibit A

    General William R. Looney III

    If they turn on their radars we’re going to blow up their goddamn SAMs [surface-to- air missiles]. They know we own their country. We own their airspace…We dictate the way they live and talk. And that’s what’s great about America right now. It’s a good thing, especially when there’s a lot of oil out there we need.

    Comments about the bombing of Iraq in the late 1990s, which he directed. Interview Washington Post (August 30, 1999); quoted in Rogue State, William Blum, Common Courage Press, 2005, p. 159.

    William Blum,
    RIP
    Somebody should do an autopsy on him !

  144. joe webb says:
    @denk

    ok potty mouth,. I went to jail over Vietnam…CD. Turned in my draft card, led draft resistance, and most importantly blew the whistle on the Oil War Thesis around SF Bay Area ca. 2003 (search Joe Webb and Uncle Sam). I had to fight. literally a few jews and commies in street demos.

    I also broke the back of the zionist domination of the Bar Area Left. with my Uncle Sam street routine..(I want you to die for Israel.”..my sign , Uncle Sam garb.

    I became a WN sort, and then more or less resigned over the nazi chatter. Now call myself a White ethnic activist.. I know a lot of these guys in WN.

    So, then I have opposed the neocons for decades now and the Conservative, INc. types.

    I am a White unapologetic and objective supremacist in the sense that the White Race is the Supreme race , mostly cuz of our (excessive) altruism, our invention of free speech, elections, and just about everything scientific and technical. We are also the best looking, especially with our blondes, like me, and of course, Ancient Greece and Rome were Blonde and Brunette northerns.

    Right now, for kicks, I wear a maga cap around town , just looking for trouble. Thing is, I look pretty tough (still). Punks like you I dispose of with one punch.

    JW

    You are in infantile leftist. I was a leftie, but never infantile, which is why I got out of the childish Peter Pan and Tinkerbelle Left, and wound up a White Nationalist Without Hitler. That is we Whites are the only race to champion elections , democracy, free speech, etc. No other race does so, has done so historically, etc. Not In Their Genes.

    So go suck your thumb and squat to pee.

    By the way, yes we’re fighter We are the best at it. Nothing like a White Army

    JW

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @denk
  145. Joe Wong says:
    @jeff stryker

    Chinese has no interest of taking over the world, because Chinese believes 5 principles of peaceful coexistence, all nations large and small should be treated as equal with respect.

    Shabu labs and Islamic terrorist groups are CIA and NED’s creations to destabilize SE Asia for the purpose of maintaining American’s hundreds of years of imperial colonial master role in the SE Asia. China has donated tens of millions dollars of aids and built large rehab centers for the Philippines to combat drug abuse problems while the American provided no aids but are using underhanded operations to undermine Duterte’s war on drug.

    Because the White man have brought unprecedented destruction, misery, despair, chaos, violence, corruption, and death to the world, it does not mean everybody else is like the White man and will follow the White man to continue wreak havoc of this world. White man should stop spewing out their negative energy to poison the world’s progress to peace and prosperity under a non western approach.

    The developing nations like the Philippines are not White man’s imperial museum to be remained backwards and poverty ridden for the White man to satisfy their White man superiority nostalgia. The developing nations like the Philippines has the right to enjoy modernity, peace and prosperity. Go home Yankee,Filipinos do not need you and your military occupation bases there; let the developing nations have a chance to develop their potentials.

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
  146. Anon[799] • Disclaimer says:
    @joe webb

    Elections, democracy, and free speech are gay. It’s probably no accident that ancient Greece was so gay. Rome was less gay, thus less into elections, democracy, and free speech. And it’s no accident that US state enforced global homosexuality is now on the agenda along with spreading elections, democracy, and free speech:

    https://www.wnd.com/2019/02/new-trump-push-make-homosexuality-legal-everywhere/

    No self-respecting straight white man actually supports elections, democracy, and free speech:

  147. @Joe Wong

    You’re not Chinese, you’re Korean.

    Anyhow it was China that Duterte asked to please stop making shaba, not the CIA. Of course Chinese drug kingpins won’t listen.

  148. denk says:
    @joe webb

    Right now, for kicks, I wear a maga cap around town , just looking for trouble. Thing is, I look pretty tough (still). Punks like you I dispose of with one punch.

    Sounds just about right for a wts.
    Why do I have this feeling murikkan ‘foreign policies’ are simply the population writ large ?

    Yeah I know all about wts, tough cookies all.

    During the 80’s jp was the bogeyman.
    The book ‘jp as no 1’ sent shivers down every wts spine.
    So they took it out on any jap that happened to
    be around.
    Ironically the first collateral damage of the jp yellow peril was a Chinese.
    Vincent Chin was having a coffee with some friends in a cafe, two outta job car workers,
    200 +lb , six footers, dragged the unarmed Chin, whose half their size, outta the cafe and bludgeoned him to death with base ball bats.
    They got away scot free naturally.
    Whiteys have this license to kill doncha know ?

    These days China is the yellow peril.

    The tptb outsourced all manufacturing jobs to China to take advantage of their cheap labor, but they wickedly tell the sheeples like joe, hey the Chinese steal all your jobs !
    So Chinese become all the rage for the stupid wts.
    Every other day I heard of Chinese or Chinese looking people got abused, whacked for nuthin all over the 5lies domain, even in Ireland, Scotland where the folks ought to know better.
    Ironically,.
    lots of the victims are actually Koreans, some were veterans who fought for uncle sham in ww2, korean war.
    It matter not a whiff for the wts whether they’r beating up the ‘right’ guy, …hell, they never have to face any consequences, so what the hell.

    so The wts get too used to beating up Asians half their size and get away scott free, some times they got carried away and take on someone their own size like so…oops !

    and got a taste of their own medicine.

    Wow white army are real warriors like when they overran Grenada, Panama, ‘operation just in time’ no less.

    Again they got too used to banging defenceless isles ,deluded by their own toughness, they got careless …

    In korea, a UN coaliton force , bristling with bombers, jet fighters, complete air superiority.no less. Tanks, artilleries, carbines,…couldnt subdue the PLA fighting with ww1 vintage rifles.

    In Nam, this white super army juggernaut was again sent packing by the rag tag Vietcongs, the murikkan ambassador got away in the nick of time hanging onto a copter .

    These days, our brave white warriors have no stomach facing their ‘enemies’ , so they bomb them with daisy cutters, MOAB from three miles up, or hole up in their consoles in Langley, sending hellfire missiles into Afghan mud huts, wedding parties, funeral processions three thousands miles away.

    Such tough cookies these white warriors.
    heheheh

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
    , @TT
  149. @denk

    VINCENT CHIN

    I am from Detroit where this crime took place in 1982 when I was 8.

    Nitz and Eben were Jewish and unemployed supervisors in an auto-plant factory.

    The event took place in a seedy strip club. Or rather these Jews followed them somewhere else.

  150. TT says:
    @Erebus

    Even Trumps will to get every tiny thing build up with China & Jp help, using FED unlimited free printing toilet papers of course, there isn’t any qualified work force to deploy or be trained.

    That’s main reason Steve Jobs told Obama why jobs aren’t going back – US labours are gone case.

  151. TT says:
    @denk

    In korea, a UN coaliton force , bristling with bombers, jet fighters, complete air superiority.no less. Tanks, artilleries, carbines,…couldnt subdue the PLA fighting with ww1 vintage rifles.

    There is never any UN coalition force in Korea war. Its a illegal US led aggression, known as Unified/United Command, in violating of UNSC charter. US deceived UN by using ‘United Command’ in its letterhead when communicating. And then go ahead to lie shamelessly using UN name.

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-role-of-the-un-in-the-unending-korean-war-united-nations-command-as-camouflage/5350876

    By acting before the Security Council could act, the US was in violation of Article 2(7) of the UN Charter which requires a Security Council action under Chapter VII before there is any armed intervention into the internal affairs of another nation unless the arms are used in self-defense. (See Article 51 of the UN Charter. The US armed intervention in Korea was clearly not an act of self defense for the US.) Also the actions of the UN have come to be referred to as the actions of the “United Nations Command”(UNC), but this designation is not to be found in the June and July 1950 Security Council resolutions authorizing participation in the Korean War. (3) What is the significance of the US using the UN in these ways?

    The current US military command in South Korea claims to wear three hats: Command of US troops in South Korea, Combined Forces Command (US and South Korean troops), and “United Nations Command” with responsibilities with respect to the Armistice. The United Nations, however, has no role in the oversight or decision making processes of the “United Nations Command”. The US Government is in control of the “United Nations Command”. The use by the US of the designation “United Nations Command”, however, creates and perpetuates the misconception that the UN is in control of the actions and decisions taken by the US under the “United Nations Command”.

    The Democratic People’s Republic of Korea (more commonly referred to as North Korea) has called for disbanding the “United Nations Command”(UN Command). At a press conference held at the United Nations on June 21, 2013, the North Korean Ambassador to the UN, Ambassador Sin Son Ho argued that the actions of the US Government using the designation “United Nations Command” are not under any form of control by the United Nations. (4) Since the UN has no role in the decision making process of what the US does under the title of the “United Nations Command”, North Korea contends the US should cease its claim that it is acting as the “United Nations Command”.

  152. TT says:
    @Sean

    Anyway, there is hardly a tree left in China and since 2006, China has been the world’s largest emitter of CO2 annually and though they pay lip service they accept no binding target for reduction; quite the opposite.

    Pls has slight decency to check before spewing nonsense.

    According to Nasa, China has planted & expanded forest the size of Amazon, contributing 1/4 of global greenery effort.

    Its now working on massive irrigation projects in Tibet & Xinjiang, including dams that will overshadow 3Gorges. These will convert arid Xinjiang into another green agriculture pasture & food basket providing economic to it landlocked natives.

    China’s effort to roll back desertification is also very impressive, converting thousands of hectares deserts into green forest using proprietary planting method.

    It has built world most hydropower stations & dams in China, and help built in Asia, Africa…with grants & subsidized loan. Forefront in reusable energy, EV, solar.

    And China is the staunchest supporter of CO2 emission control with solid actions, when US write off Kyoto treaty in Paris as hoax.

  153. TT says:
    @jeff stryker

    Jeff,

    what’s about Spore that have 75% majority Chinese mainly come from Fujian too, HK, Taiwan!? Do they fare well & very safe, or a shithole filled with drugs & crimes that you projected to be?

    And then compare with Chinese minority countries:
    Msia with 25% Chinese contributing 70% economy, Indonesia 3% Chinese contributing 70% economy.
    Thailand, Myanmar, Laos, Cambodia, Philippines, ….

    It seems that the more Chinese % a country has, the more its prosperous & safe, vice versa. So Chinese is in fact the main economic & safety contributing factor, instead of the other way round you painted.

    If Chinese are indeed as evil as you make out to be, then China will be worst than India, dysfunctional like Philippines, completely crimes & drugs infested like Mexico. Yet China today is biggest growing economy in real ppp, and world safest country well surpassing nearly all whites countries. No?

    Vietnam tried to purge Chinese ethics under Ho Chih Min anti-China policy, ended paralyzed its entire economy until Chinese were brought back to help. Today its still the Chinese ethics controlling its majority economy & ruling elites.

    Indonesia Prez Suharto slaughtered million of Chinese ethics under Yanks CIA instigation to coup pro-China Prez Sukarno, and their economy suffered. Suharto later brought back Chinese to run 70% of economy, while his cronies suck off remaining.

    Malaysia Mahatir had forthright admonished his disgruntled Malays complaining about 20% Chinese controlling 70% economy. He famously said Malays race by inheritance is lazy and bad in economic, screwing up every gov granted projects & handouts. So let the skillful Chinese take care of all business, and Malays can tax on them to make Malaysia prosperous. All subsequent leaders follow that policy, and the result is continuous economy growth.

    Myanmar purged Chinese after independent, immediately encountered dysfunction economy. Today its still relying on Chinese ethic to support the main economy behind.

    Thailand, Cambodia, Laos didn’t purge Chinese ethics, and Chinese are similarly their main economy contributors.

    There is one common observation in all these countries, where ever Chinese live, they are mostly law obedient, work diligently and eventually established in businesses contributing to most prosperity.

    Whereas in majority Catholics Philippines, are literally controlled by Vatican appointed bishops, who forbid contraceptive & divorce, directly causing its explosive population, leading to grave poverty & crimes. These bishops are also colluding with corrupted politicians to dictate election outcome using their churh influence.

    When pro-China Prez Duerte declared war on drugs with China help is achieving good result, these West-appointed bishops are leading their followers in full force to oppose, all in syn with West govs ‘human rights’. Dont that smell fishy?

    So will Philippines be better off without Chinese? Im not sure, just like whites, some Chinese are also ruthless crimals. But your sweeping statements & allegation certainly is fundamentally flawed.

    But CIA has been plotting anti-Chinese ethic riots in Asean for a long time as part of China containment plan. Previously Denk posted one article on this.

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
  154. @TT

    Your description of Malaysians as lazy and stupid is why Indonesians kill ethnic Chinese and not some CIA plot. That’s the thinking right there that motivates Malays to dislike ethnic Chinese.

    China did not help Duterte. China makes the drugs there or in Taiwan. Duterte pleaded with them to stop sending shabu to the Philippines but China does not care and so Filipinos continue to stagger around like zombies in their squats.

    Philippines has the additional post-colonial curse of Mestizo half-breed Spanish landowning and political class of “Hacienderos” while Malaysians are unified under Islam. Since these Spanish-blooded elite are part-white, some of the blame for the problems in the Philippines can be attributed to whites.

    As for CIA containment plans, you’ll probably say that the reason Singapore immigration allowed so many Indians in was because the US government wanted to import a competitive ethnic group to prevent Chinese in Singapore from controlling all of Southeast Asia.

    • Replies: @TT
  155. Anon[117] • Disclaimer says:

    “An emboldened China could someday match or even exceed U.S. power on a global scale, an outcome American elites are determined to prevent at any cost.”

    They will fail. The United States, like Carthage, is doomed to lose its struggle for dominance; too many things are running against it. Not only does China have the far larger population, but consider the following factors that run in their favor:

    1. Like the US, China has a highly advanced and productive agriculture industry, making them all but immune to nation-killing food blockades.

    2. China has an average IQ that may approach Japan’s before it levels out; Japan is insanely outsized in terms of competitiveness, mainly due to its intelligent, group-oriented population, so imagine how much stronger China could be.

    3. China is geographically situated in the heart of the world’s economic engine, Asia. This puts China in prime position to break out from US dominance and, potentially, even surround the Americans by making their trading partners their vassals.

    4. The US is located far away and in a fairly unimportant region of the world. It will be difficult for the US to get reinforcements to the Asian theater in the advent of a conflict. American allies know this, so they will be predisposed to making peace with the Chinese as the power balance continues to shift in China’s favor.

    5. Universalist dogma outsourced to American satellites Australia and New Zealand will eventually make both countries Chinese vassals. Sometime in this century both countries will have majority Asian populations due to immigration. Polls have repeatedly shown that Asian immigrants have positive feelings towards the Chinese, despite the propaganda efforts of the Americans. Take a look at what the Israel Lobby has accomplished and imagine what a future China Lobby in those countries will do. Also, there is virtually no way to stop this from eventually happening as this diversity dogma is spouted by the US at the highest level and is now deeply ingrained in its future Chinese satellites. Before the end of the century, the Chinese will have naval bases in both countries and the US will have none.

    6. China is free from the social-trust killing, national ethos-sapping political divisiveness seen in the US – no feminism, no attacks on its majority Han population. America, on the other hand, is beset with hundreds of hate hoaxes targeted at its most important demographic, white males – the group that disproportionately dies in its wars, invents its best technology, and exports the best elements of its culture. If there is a military conflict between China and the United States ten years hence, expect the critical white male demographic to sit it out.

    7. The Chinese are deeply patriotic and nationalistic. The US has experienced an unprecedented decline in patriotism according to polls; that trend will continue. Therefore, there is little appetite in the US for confrontation. This as a hungry China chomps at the bit to show everyone who “the real ruler of the world is”, a concept I sometimes see floated on their social media.

    8. The US is rapidly losing cultural influence due to a diminished Hollywood. The last several American tent poll films, for instance, have crashed in Asia. Meanwhile movies like Alita: Battle Angel (adapted from a Japanese anime) have done well in that market while doing not so well in the US (and coming under immense fire from SJW gatekeepers for portraying a female as something other than a weirdo). This means that tastes are diverging between the two markets, a trend the Chinese can exploit in the future due to shared tastes across the region and American inability to make anything other than low-quality superhero movies.

    Hollywood is also now pretty much incapable of making the kinds of movies Asians (and Europeans) used to see – science fiction, fantasy, and action/adventure movies – due to rampant anti-white male hate and an industry focused on other demographics. Gone are the movies like Robocop, Aliens, Jurassic Park, Die Hard, The Terminator, The Lord of The Rings, and the Matrix. Gone because the white guys who made them are aging out of the industry (or changing genders) and now all Hollywood wants to make are infantile superhero movies for the Idiocracy demographic.

    And did you see the Oscars this year? What an embarrassment. They actually nominated Black Panther for Best Picture. I can’t imagine anyone in Asia cares. They couldn’t even get a host.

    9. The Chinese are primed to dominate influential cultural industries like video games in a way that the Americans cannot due to checklist diversity requirements and the many anti-male gatekeepers within the industry.

    The video game industry is now three times the size of Hollywood and much more influential than Hollywood for the youth. When technology and budgets are not a limiting factor, politically-incorrect nations like Japan dominate over large American corporations like Microsoft. The American video game industry, led by Microsoft, has effectively zero influence in Asian nations due to American corporate greed, developer laziness, checklist diversity, feminism, and a short-sighted strategy of broadly targeting low quality material to low quality people (stupid FPS games).

    Microsoft has been crushed so badly by the Japanese that they are now putting their software on the Nintendo Switch; they simply cannot compete on any level. Meanwhile, Chinese cultural influencers grow in power. They await only a maturation in Chinese taste and a forward-thinking export policy…but it will come. China’s Tencent already owns a significant stake in Epic Games, a streaming platform that will compete with America’s Steam for dominance of the huge online market.

    One day, China will dominate their inferior American competition just as the Japanese and Koreans have done. This bodes very badly for the US in the future, especially when you stop to consider that all movies may be CGI in the future. The Chinese market is still immature, but when it does mature, it will dominate – games, movies, music…everything.

    10. Divisive rhetoric promoted by the American elite and aimed at white European-Americans – an effort to suppress white group solidarity – will eventually drive a wedge between Europe and America that the Chinese, through their Russian ally, can exploit. You already see a bit of this in Germany’s refusal to cancel their gas pipeline (Nordstream 2, if I recall), and Italy’s defiance of the Empire over Venezuela. When racist American politicians like Kamala Harris begin stealing money from European Americans and handing it to blacks through reparations schemes, expect the Europeans to start thinking twice about their relationship with this country.

    After Trump loses in 2020, European elites will celebrate…but not for long. Over the following decade, both the far left (for economic reasons) and the far right (for ethnic reasons) may unite against the United States. That will be made all the easier once the United States is no longer able to elect a competent European as president. Europe isn’t going to want to be ruled over by someone of a different ethnic group that hates their own.

    11. China is unified in a way the US never can be again. China is 90% Han Chinese. The US gets more diverse and divided by the day. Therefore, the Chinese public is more resilient to conflict with rivals.

    12. China’s political model is far superior to their American counterpart. The Americans, for instance, elect incompetent leaders through national popularity contests; said leaders then rule only for favored interests. China, on the other hand, is run by smart people for the benefit of all Chinese – the nation-state.

    13. China’s economic model is far superior to the corrupt, inefficient American corporate model. Whereas China is a meritocracy not beset with crippling diversity requirements and feminism. Tellingly, whenever the two models have gone head-to-head, such as in Africa, the Chinese have won by a large margin. I see nothing that will change that in the future as that would require a wholesale rethinking in the US of their basic philosophies, both on the left and the right…and that is impossible at this point.

    The US is a proposition nation, so dogma lies at the heart of civic life. The Chinese, in contrast, are free to pick and chose from the best of each ideology and apply it where warranted because they are a blood and soil nation – group interest comes first, not allegiance to dogma. Everyone in the US is an extremist of some sort – socialist, corporatist, environmentalist, etc. That’s no way to run a government.

    14. The US will soon lose the moral high ground. As the US devolves into a police state, as it continues kicking dissidents off the internet and silencing whistle blowers (and attacking nations like Iran and Venezuela), nations around the world will cease to see a difference between the US and China. At that point, they my either go independent (perhaps in alliance with India or Russia) or openly start to flirt with a Chinese alliance. After all, what does it matter if both states are authoritarian? At least the Chinese don’t have a history of invading their competition.

    15. The divided American public may not support more military spending over social service spending; this likelihood will only increase in the future due to demographic changes. They see that China has a competent single-payer medical program and will want the same for themselves, not pay for missiles and guns for other people.

    16. The US cannot pursue relationships with vital nations like Russia due its anti-male and anti-European dogma, now infused into society at the highest levels. It will take decades to erase that and by then it will be too late.

  156. Anon[117] • Disclaimer says:

    “Someone here mentioned the EU turning East. At some point the EU will decide that staying a US vassal is suicide and it will turn East. When that happens then the virus of US insanity will turn inwards into itself.”

    True. One day someone like Kamala Harris or Stacey Abrams will be president. Will Europe want to be ruled by non-Europeans who hate Europeans, want to tear down their monuments, and steal their money for reparations payments?

    “The USA has lost strategic air superiority, as well as strategic brain power. I wonder how the USA would look after a week of retaliatory aerospace strikes?”

    Like New Orleans after Katrina – a breakdown in the social order as all the diverse groups start fighting each other and shooting at rescue efforts because they’re morons and thieves.

    “Open the USA borders wide open and encourage 1 billion South Aemricans, Africans, SE Asians and South Asians into the USA is the fastest and easiest way to close the human resource gap between the USA and China.”

    How exactly is an efficient democracy supposed to work in that instance? Seems like dysfunction, low social trust, and corruption would reign. Besides, the Chinese population will still be far more intelligent overall, so no gap will be closed. The US should have focused on immigration from Europe and increasing its white birth rate back in the 1970s. They’d be in a far stronger position now if they had done that then.

    • Replies: @TT
  157. TT says:
    @Anon

    Which West European nations willing to move to dysfunctional disUnited States filled with crimes & unemployment en masse?

    May be some poor cousins of East European. But they will soon find US is worst than their country, no good jobs, homeless without affordable accommodation, crime infested, their whites is actually marginalized by diversification, LGBT conflict with their WASP value. Most will want go back soon.

    So its left with only choice of finest selection of 1.3B poor Indians, Latino, South Americans, Africans & ME refugees willing to go anywhere just to get out of their countries shithole.

    When they arrived, hundreds of millions whites, Chinese & Asians will flee like been no tomorrow.

    Here it go, United States of Asshole is founded. Pls handover all nukes to UNSC before implementing lest been exchange for food or use for heating in winter.

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
  158. TT says:
    @jeff stryker

    Its Malaysia PM Mahatir who said Malays are inheritingly lazy. Im just quoting.

    Do educate yourself about CIA & Muslim politicians instigated riots against ethnic Chinese before writing off in ignorant.

    Spore was shielded from all these info distorted with West msm propaganda. I had only learned about these details from Indonesian Chinese friends whose family had suffered these trauma. After some readings, also Indonesia under current Chinese ethnic President Jokowi, did all these CIA-Muslims Generals collision genocides been publicized. How about you, where you got yours?

    https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/1998/02/indo-f14.html

    https://sweetandsoursocialism.wordpress.com/2013/02/18/cias-role-in-indonesias-anti-chinese-genocide-hidden-harmonies-blog/amp/

    China did not help Duterte. China makes the drugs there or in Taiwan. Duterte pleaded with them to stop sending shabu to the Philippines but China does not care and so Filipinos continue to stagger around like zombies in their squats.

    Why did you say China didn’t help Prez Duerte in drugs war, your Chinese philippino mistress told you? Pls cite your evidence.

    Its widely publicized in our msm, West msm…that China gov working with Philippines police to track & dry up many drugs supply, even donated rehab centers as part of long term solution. So you mean all these West msm are lying to help China.

    In your word, these shabu are make & sold by China gov? Or they are part of global drug syndicates that operated in every countries including all West?

    As for CIA containment plans, you’ll probably say that the reason Singapore immigration allowed so many Indians in was because the US government wanted to import a competitive ethnic group to prevent Chinese in Singapore from controlling all of Southeast Asia.

    Let these unequal US FTA & India CECA speak itself. These were shoved into our PM LEE ass to screw SG, allowing unlimited Indians of all kinds & their families to live & work in SG, with their mostly internationally unrecognized qualifications mandatory to be accepted.

    Also both US & India nationals enjoy tax free in property investment, while Sporeans & all foreigners subjected to 3% + 7% + 7% tax regimes, literally giving them a 10~17% profits upfront.

    https://thehearttruths.com/2013/11/11/this-is-why-singaporeans-will-not-be-protected-in-our-jobs-by-the-government/amp/

    Indians as “competitive” ethnic group to suppress SG Chinese, you are joking or seriously think Indians IQ80 & its education is superior to Sg Chinese IQ107 that rank consistently Top in SAT, PISA & Olympiad?

    These are the dredge of India, violent drunkard, not those US get. Numerous are caught with fake certificates when they simply could not even do the most basic task, near illiterate. A documentary show was make to investigate how widespread & complex is it in India, even there are someone stationed to pick up call as reference to certify everything. These including medical MD cert, aka fake Indian Drs that India Health Ministry condemn openly been so rampant up to 80% of India Drs(that was posted in one of Unz old discussion 2yrs ago)

    https://gocertify.in/articles/certification-verification-rogue-it-credentials-rampant-in-india/

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
  159. TT says:
    @Erebus

    If both US & China go on full trade war 100% tariff, to the brim of stop trading, who do you think can last longer?

    As you said, in mere wks, US will be paralyzed with every shelves empty & factories shut down. Emergency declared with imports from other sources with much chaos. Frustrated, nation wide civil riots may ensue with states like California, Texas, … demanding independent.

    Whereas for China its life as usual with some restructuring, since it can live without yanks useless financial services, msm & few chips easily replaced by EU/Jp or live without. Airbus will be happy to replace Boeing.

    China total export to US is ~$500B, 50% are imported components, so $350B damage is passed back to US $250B(total US export to China) & global suppliers $100B.

    That make China actual impact only $150B, $4T reserved, it can theoretically offset the trade loss for >20yrs, while continue to expand its domestic consumption, BRI & global trade to fuel growth.

    But the world will be in chaos to get double impact of a totally collapsed US $21T GDP & China import cut. With all economies stunt, global financial mkt burst, consumption all dive, US allies turning to China for leadership & trade, a WW3 look imminent as yank is left with only one product – weapons!

    But not to worry, it should be very short one in yelling, as no yanks want to die with empty belly, nor there are $ to pump vessels & bombers or resources to prepare long war. Military is quickly paralyzed with desertion, & split between seperated states. There go 51 disUnited states of America.

    So China is indeed discussing with yanks from great strength. But with farsight, they prefer to settle yanks brinkmanship in Chinese humble & peaceful way.

    I hope China can drag on until US can no longer conceal its pain with fake data, screamming out loudly for truce to sign China dictates trade agreement. China need to teach yank a painful lesson to humble it once & for all, including a WTO style unequal treaty that yank shoved down china throat.

    • Replies: @Erebus
  160. @TT

    TT

    For all the refugees the US creates in the Mideast, it doesn’t except many of them. Most Iraqi and Afghani refugees have no hope of entering the US; European countries that protested the war in Iraq end up absorbing the human cost.

  161. @TT

    An Indian-Malay should know.

    As for the CIA cooperating with Muslims in anti-Chinese anything, I am skeptical. My feeling about Indonesia is that a 3% minority owning everything and displaying contempt for the natives as lazy savages is enough fuel ethnic hatred and Chinese backing of Suharto didn’t help things.

    Indians don’t represent job competition for Singapore, they are simply a basic menace to your society. And it is possible that the US government, not wanting to see Singapore become a vassal state of China, wanted your country’s population to become more…well, diversified.

    • Replies: @TT
    , @TT
  162. Patricus says:
    @DESERT FOX

    Is there a shred of evidence that genetically modified foods threaten people or animals? It is difficult to find foods that have not been genetically modified. The modern modifications are just faster than the centuries and millenia previously required.

    • Replies: @Erebus
  163. Patricus says:
    @Joe Wong

    The “dominance” of Anglo-Saxons is overstated. They are a pretty small minority in the US. They still dominate Britain, maybe.

  164. Erebus says:
    @TT

    If both US & China go on full trade war 100% tariff, to the brim of stop trading, who do you think can last longer?

    China would take a hit, but not greater than the whole world could be expected to take. Probably quite a bit less.

    There’s little doubt in my mind that China is in a much stronger position to both survive and to be in a position to take advantage of the world’s eventual recovery. As you note…

    … $4T reserved, it can theoretically offset the trade loss for >20yrs…

    It also has the world’s widest and deepest industrial infrastructure.

    It’s not only the $4T and the infrastructure. China also has a lot of gold within its domestic system, which it can mobilize to make purchases from the the rest of the world’s staggered economies. Approx 20kT, by some quite carefully done estimates. Mobilizing that gold, of course, is where things get tricky. The world would be awash with useless dollars and how all that liability gets unwound would cause a lot of Central Bankers and their govts a lot of sleepless nights.

  165. Erebus says:
    @Patricus

    Is there a shred of evidence that genetically modified foods threaten people or animals?

    There are plenty of “shreds” but nothing conclusive that I’ve come across. I doubt they’ve been around long enough to know what effect they have if any.

    The primary reason for genetically modifying a crop plant is to increase its resistance to herbicides and insecticides. So, they tend to encourage the use of them in increasingly toxic varieties, and/or in greater quantities. Some of that may stay with the plant when it’s consumed, but whether it does or not it’s certainly bad for insects and the biosphere in general. The great die-off in the insect population we’re seeing is quite likely related to that.

    • Replies: @TT
    , @Patricus
  166. Anon[409] • Disclaimer says:

    “Which West European nations willing to move to dysfunctional disUnited States filled with crimes & unemployment en masse?”

    Quite a number of Europeans would have moved to the US circa 1965 – 1990 with the countries then demographics, which was the point being made in the comment. The US is a huge country with lots of space. In 1980, virtually all Eastern Europeans would have been better off in almost any place in the US over where they were. The US Ruling Class had the chance but cast it aside for lesser and more divisive groups so they could win elections and stiff their workers. Even the US now is a mostly a better place to live than virtually any place in Eastern Europe, and quite a number of places in overcrowded Western Europe – now filled with Muslim invaders, rising crime, higher unemployment than the US, and yearly riots.

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
  167. TT says:
    @Erebus

    One TV celebrity went on crusade to expose Monsanto GMO toxicity impact in food chain few yrs ago.

    He visited US & collected clinical evidences of GMO cancer causing from several US professors, publicized them online. These force China gov to investigate, and their clinical test too revealed mice & animals fed with GMO have huge tumors growing all over shortly.

    China agriculture minister was investigated, found to hold lucrative high pay job in Monsanto taking bribery, and blanket approved all untested Monsanto GMO seeds, grains & weed killer. Even those used as domestic animals feed but banned for wild animals in US were introduced into food chain. Some also passed off as non GMO to plant in vast land not approved for GMO.

    About 30% of China food chain & vast agriculture lands contaminated, no longer productive. That agri minister got arrested. No sure what China gov is doing about it. But Prez Xi is hailing organic food. Tibets & Xinjiang have mega irrigation projects on going now, might be to open up new agri lands to offset.

  168. TT says:
    @jeff stryker

    Tonnes of evidences on CIA-Muslim generals instigated riots & massacre since 1965. You choose to see otherwise.

    A trove of recently released declassified documents confirms that Washington’s role in the country’s 1965 massacre was part of a bigger Cold War strategy.
    https://www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/543534/

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/still-uninvestigated-after-50-years-did-the-u-s-help-incite-the-1965-indonesia-massacre/5467309/amp

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/trumps-indonesian-allies-in-bed-with-isis-backed-fpi-militia-they-seek-to-oust-elected-president-jokowi/5588694/amp

    I couldn’t find one article published in one unz comment by Denk?, where West msm interviewing Indonesia biggest opposition party. Their chiefs had audacity to brag how they will instigate another massive anti-Chinese riots to win next election.

    The jews are much more vicious & open in controlling US, but you won’t see CIA staged riots & protest against their jewish masters Aipac.

    Thailand Chinese ethnic are holding most economy too, but their politicians elites been Chinese don’t instigate riot against own ethnic to meddle election.

  169. TT says:
    @jeff stryker

    US government, not wanting to see Singapore become a vassal state of China, wanted your country’s population to become more…well, diversified.

    Its not diversification, its complete indianized with Weapon of Mass Migration, by jews controlled US to push back China influence. As China refused to let jews control them!!! Its also happening for Sri Lanka, Nepal, Bhutan, Mauritius now.

    Its Top to bottom all indians now in SG, 9% Indians with India new migrants controlling 75% Chinese & 15% Malays. Since when Indians have turn so great well surpass all Chinese capability, over a short span of 10yrs since Obama’s new balance in Asia Pacific started. Its a regime change, silent coup.

    Starting from Indian Prez, Indian DPM(a ex-criminal for leaking state secret data, he was highly touted as best future PM to test voter response, but a Chinese PM candidate was eventually selected for coming election as voters brainwashing not yet complete), national DBS bank CEO chairman Indian. Central bank MAS chief Indian. Law, Home Affair, Foreign Minister all Indians. High court judges flooded Indians. Chief judge Indian. Top senior counsels(equivalent to Queen Councils) many Indians. MPs also new india migrants. MSM journalist & writers flooded Indians.

    Some are India newly arrived Indians of no credential. Yet no msm reporting on that. Its near complete regime change in stealth.

  170. Patricus says:
    @Erebus

    In addition to the herbicide and insecticide resistance some plants are modified to withstand prolonged dry conditions, or to produce more of certain proteins or vitamins, or to increase yields.

    The corn or maize we now have started from an indigenous plant in Central and South America. Twenty plants would produce a tablespoon of grain. The native corn plant can still be found. Over thousands of years these were bred for increased size and yields but probably for other reasons as well like drought resistance. That’s genetic modification over many generations.

    In this country the Food and Drug Admin. and Dept. of Agriculture have studied the genetically modified plants extensively. Not that government agencies always get it right but it would be interesting to see a real life example of these plants actually harming people, or animals and insects. Sometimes the fear of Frankenfoods is related to a fear of lower cost imports and a sop for the local farmers.

    Having an interest in horticulture I produced greenhouse bedding plants for the most part. One significant expense was pesticides. We took great pains to carefully watch the crops. If the aphids, or other creatures, showed up we would strive to isolate the affected plants and only treat the ones with aphids and some that were nearby. Lots of hours with a bright light and magnifying glass. We didn’t proactively apply these because of the expense. Sometimes an entire greenhouse required several treatments and there goes much of the profit. On the other hand refusing to use pesticides leads to total crop failures. Nobody applies pesticides if there are no pests. Without pesticides the world population would be much smaller and the remaining living people would know about famines.

    • Replies: @Erebus
  171. @Anon

    ANON

    In terms of space, most Europeans would immigrate to US cities. Chicago was popular with Slavs, for instance. And of course Silicone Valley. Very few immigrants move to rural wide-open areas. There is nothing to do there and Norwegians in 1990 were no longer homesteading on the North Dakota plains.

    By 1990, few Irish wanted to immigrated to Boston or Italians to New Jersey. Europe was actually safer and more prosperous when I was young than the US.

    Europeans prior to 1965 were attracted to the US middle-class standard of living and that has shrunken precipitously.

    The refugee crisis in Europe is relatively recent. As for unemployment, indeed this is bad. But the social safety net is slightly better and there is less poverty overall in Western Europe.

  172. anon[267] • Disclaimer says:

    “Very few immigrants move to rural wide-open areas.”

    Sure, if you’re talking Nevada or New Mexico desert. But there are areas considered “rural” in the US that have relatively mid-sized cities nonetheless. Oklahoma City has a population roughly equal to the population of Latvia’s capital, for example. And I’m sure that Eastern Europeans could have been coaxed to leave Europe for the US had America pursued a deal with the Soviets – white South Africans, too. Certainly, this could have been done with success post Soviet breakup. Some Western Europeans could also have been coaxed, perhaps a few million, with the right financial incentives. Along with substantial efforts to increase the native European birthrate and targeted, gender-imbalanced ~skills-based immigration* from emerging market, high IQ countries, US demographics would be in a far better place today. The country would be less divided and more rational on a global stage (and probably friends with Russia, too).

    *In other words, purposely encourage 2 to 1 female immigration from places like Korea and China back when they were both poor and filled with people ready to emigrate and compliment that with an equal but reversed ratio elsewhere (Vietnam, Laos). This forces interbreeding and prevents formation of divisive ethnic communities, while also having the benefit of harming your competitor’s demographics down the road. Actor Keanu Reeves is something like 1/8th Japanese. But most people just think he’s a white guy.

    If that kind of policy had been adopted in 1965, along with my plan above (and a few other things not mentioned), things would be better for the US now. The US would be overwhelmingly white with a small admixture of smart Asian while leaving descendants who look European; the kind of internecine racial strife we see now could have been avoided. However, that kind of plan requires a competent, and rational, near-authoritarian to be in charge. As Fred Reed has pointed out, that kind of plan is not capable in Western countries that choose their leaders via popularity contest with a birthright citizenship voting base.

  173. Erebus says:
    @Patricus

    That’s genetic modification over many generations.

    One wonders how many fish genes made their way into corn over those generations, and how they got in there.

    … it would be interesting to see a real life example of these plants actually harming people, or animals and insects.

    Pesticides of increasing toxicity are surely not good for insects. As for harming people, I doubt we’d see any more harm than the fructose and aspartame etc, or the growth hormones and rampant anti-biotic use in husbandry that those agencies approved have caused. Of course, genetics is much more complex, and so who knows what will turn up in humans a few generations from now.

    Without pesticides the world population would be much smaller and the remaining living people would know about famines.

    I’m of the firm opinion that a smaller population would be a very, very good thing, and we’ll be seeing famines soon enough anyway, but on a scale that will dwarf all other famines.

  174. Patricus says:

    “Pesticides of increasing toxicity are surely not good for insects. As for harming people, I doubt we’d see any more harm than the fructose and aspartame etc, or the growth hormones and rampant anti-biotic use in husbandry that those agencies approved have caused. Of course, genetics is much more complex, and so who knows what will turn up in humans a few generations from now.’

    The pests who feed on domesticated crops lived in nature before people were around. When they stumble upon thousands of acres of corn or wheat they rapidly reproduce to exploit the windfall. The pesticides will hopefully kill or drive off many of these insects but their total number would probably be higher than in a pre-human environment. There is a balance of power.

    Utilizing the “precautionary principle” one could say any technical advance might have some unanticipated detrimental effect in the near or distant future. Therefore let’s stop all new technology. For now we have the methods of physical science to guide us. These aren’t perfect but it’s the best we have and more sensible than the precautionary principle, also called the paralysis principle.

    “..a smaller population would be a very, very good thing, and we’ll be seeing famines soon enough anyway, but on a scale that will dwarf all other famines.”.

    I’m hoping my family and I (and you) are not among the culled billions. Death by starvation is not a pleasant way to go, so I’ve heard.

    • Replies: @Erebus
  175. Erebus says:
    @Patricus

    … their total number would probably be higher than in a pre-human environment. There is a balance of power.

    Probably? Pre-human? Yours is the disingenuity of a pesticide salesman.
    The insect world is in a massive die off, losing of ~75% its flying population over 3 decades, as attested by countless studies. The studies tell us what we already know. 40 yrs ago, a 2 hr drive in the countryside at night meant 30 min spent scraping insects off your windshield and headlights. Every lonely streetlight in the middle of nowhere had a cloud around it. Screens to protect the radiator, or even the entire front of the car were sold by every automotive shop and gas station. Seen one lately?

    Utilizing the “precautionary principle” one could say any technical advance might have some unanticipated detrimental effect in the near or distant future.

    One could say it, and one would often be right for doing so. As the complexity of the technological advance increases, so do its effects. Who considered 50 years ago that pesticide use would devastate the insect world? Who knows with any level of certainty what the effect of that will be on the ecosystem we live in? What we know is it ain’t gonna likely to be good, and may be devastating. They’re now found in mother’s milk with potential effects we lack the tools and brain power to comprehend, never mind predict.

    When it comes to playing with complex, chaotic systems that support our life on the planet, humans are like a monkey with a hand-grenade. To borrow a phrase “If the planet’s ecosystem was simple enough to understand, we’d be too simple to understand it. “ Our myopia & hubris will kill us, if our stupidity and belligerence doesn’t do it first.

  176. Patricus says:

    The insect “die off” is an interesting occurrence. Puerto Rico lost a large percentage of insects while at the same time they decreased pesticide use by 80%. This die off is observed in a limited number of regions of the world. It isn’t known exactly what caused the drop in insect population. Some say pesticides, others say climate change (the theory that explains all things), are killing the bugs.

    Pesticides have been overused in the past but there have been impressive improvements in the technology which reduces the amounts required. There are herbicides and pesticides designed with chemical half lives. These kill the weeds or pests then break down into harmless components and in 10-14 days can no longer be detected in the field. Unfortunately for some any improvements will require some kind of technology.

    We are all going to die eventually, hopefully later rather than sooner.

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