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Giving a Pass to Anti-Muslim Bigotry
Islamophobia Enters the Government, Is Incorporated into the Law, and Becomes Increasingly Acceptable in America
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Imagine that a nominee for secretary of state had shared platforms with white nationalist Richard B. Spencer and been given a major award by his National Policy Institute, which describes itself as “an independent organization dedicated to the heritage, identity, and future of people of European descent in the United States and around the world.” With that on his record, is it likely the nominee would have been confirmed, or nominated in the first place, to head the State Department?

Or what if someone under consideration for a top White House job had written an admiring foreword for a book by Holocaust denier David Irving or perhaps one by the psychologist and alt-right sympathizer Kevin MacDonald, who describes Jews as “a hostile, adversary elite” conducting “ethnic war” against Christianity and “traditional institutions of European-American culture”? Would such an endorsement keep him from being named as the president’s national security advisor?

While those are hypothetical questions, there can’t be much doubt about the answers. Views like Spencer’s (“This country does belong to white people, culturally, politically, socially, everything. We defined what America is”) and MacDonald’s (“Given Jewish influence over the political process… it is vitally important for those of us attempting to reverse White dispossession to understand this, to call attention to it, and to combat it”) certainly have a following, but are broadly seen as inconsistent with mainstream American values and beyond the borders of acceptable public discourse.

A Double Standard on Bigotry

When Muslims are the target of bigotry, however, the reaction is quite different. Evidence of that double standard abounds. Consider Brigitte Gabriel, not quite a household name but a leading voice in the Islamophobic choir. Gabriel, whose organization ACT for America is one of the most active and visible anti-Muslim groups in this country, has maintained longstanding and warm relations with various high-ranking political figures, including Secretary of State Mike Pompeo. In rhetoric that is very similar in tone and logic to that of the white nationalists, Gabriel argues that the people she disparages are not true Americans: “A practicing Muslim who believes the word of the Koran to be the word of Allah, who abides by Islam, who goes to mosque and prays every Friday, who prays five times a day — this practicing Muslim, who believes in the teachings of the Koran, cannot be a loyal citizen to the United States of America.”

Pompeo not only delivered speeches at ACT conferences while a member of Congress, but arranged for the group to give a presentation at the Capitol and, in 2016, received its highest award. He faced some sharp questioning in his Senate hearing about those connections, but did not repudiate either Gabriel’s views or those of her organization and yet his association with her did not derail his confirmation as the nation’s top diplomat.

Similarly, earlier this year when John Bolton was tapped to replace Lieutenant General H.R. McMaster as President Trump’s national security advisor, numerous critics called attention to his associations with various anti-Muslim conspiracy theorists, including his enthusiastic foreword for a book by two leading Islamophobes, Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer (no relation to white nationalist Richard Spencer), filled with ominous insinuations about former President Barack Obama’s supposed Muslim ties. That book was titled The Post-American Presidency: The Obama Administration’s War on America. Bolton used the same label in the opening sentence of his foreword, which says: “Barack Obama is the first post-American president” — that is, not a real American president, which was the book’s central message.

When Bolton’s White House appointment was announced, numerous commentators recalled that and other instances when he aligned himself with prominent anti-Muslim activists, including Frank Gaffney, the leading campaigner against the supposed Muslim conspiracy to replace the U.S. constitution with sharia, or Islamic law. But the criticism never came close to the critical mass that might have kept Bolton from assuming the post. Nor did it deter him from appointing Fred Fleitz, one of Gaffney’s top associates, as chief of staff of the National Security Council (NSC). As a senior vice president at Gaffney’s Center for Security Policy, Fleitz was one of the authors of a 2015 publication arguing that naturalized Muslim citizens who advocate sharia observance should be subject to loss of citizenship and deportation. Fleitz’s NSC appointment, announced May 29th, brought a new flurry of criticism but no indication from the White House that Bolton would be overruled or the appointment withdrawn.

That’s been a fairly typical American response: anti-Muslim opinions are criticized, often strongly, but not treated as out of bounds, the way other expressions of bigotry would be.

The pattern has been strikingly consistent since a network of strident Islamophobic activists appeared rather suddenly on the national stage at the beginning of the present decade. They initially blasted into public view in the furor over the so-called Ground Zero Mosque, an Islamic center in New York City close to (but not on) the site where the twin towers of the World Trade Center were destroyed on September 11, 2001. With increased visibility after that controversy, anti-Muslim organizers turned up across the country supporting local campaigns to oppose building permits for new mosques, organizing rallies against “creeping sharia,” and pressuring state lawmakers to pass bills banning sharia law in their states.

A Legitimate Constituency?

In the last decade, at the conservative end of the American political spectrum anti-Muslim activists have become, as The Atlantic‘s Peter Beinart has written, “a legitimate constituency group, like people who support gun rights or oppose abortion.” In fact, that description applies more broadly. Not just on the political right but in mainstream news coverage and in the political world generally, Islamophobes are criticized but are typically not treated as beyond the pale in the same way as anti-Semites or white supremacists would be.

The 2016 election campaign was full of examples of that difference. To mention just one, when Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke praised Donald Trump, the news cycles that followed were full of demands for the Trump campaign to reject Duke’s support, which Trump did, after some hemming and hawing. No such outcry arose a few months later about his endorsement by retired Lieutenant General Jerry Boykin, a vocal Islamophobe who has called Islam an “evil” religion that “should not be protected under the First Amendment” and has urged Americans to “get on the offensive” to block the construction of mosques in their communities. One liberal veterans group did call on Trump to disavow Boykin, but its statement received almost no media coverage and, needless to say, the candidate did not repudiate the general’s endorsement. (Boykin, incidentally, was another co-author of that Center for Security Policy publication calling for sharia-adherent Muslims to lose U.S. citizenship.)

Of course, the 2016 campaign provided the most spectacular example of the outrage gap when Donald Trump won the Republican nomination and then the presidency after explicitly calling for an across-the-board ban that would keep all non-American Muslims from entering the United States.

If a presidential candidate had proposed an equivalent policy directed against any other religious or racial minority — foreign Jews? Black Africans? — would his candidacy have survived? Not likely. It is difficult to imagine that someone who had taken that position could have stayed in the race at all, let alone won the election.

A Reduced-Fare Ride for Islamophobes

An unsettling tolerance of Islamophobic views is noticeable in other realms as well. Around the country, self-anointed “counterterrorism experts” regularly offer virulently anti-Muslim messages in training programs for local police and sheriffs’ departments and other public safety agencies. A notable member of that club is former FBI agent John Guandolo, who tells audiences that America is “at war with Islam,” and that all versions of their faith require Muslims to wage “warfare against non-Muslims until the entire world is under Islamic law… that’s what Islam is.

Along the way Guandolo has also declared, without a shred of evidence, that former CIA director John Brennan is a secret Muslim convert and has suggested that mosques in the United States, unlike other places of worship, are not protected by the constitutional guarantee of religious freedom. In his words, they “do not have a First Amendment right to do anything.”

Guandolo — whose publicity implies that he was forced out of the FBI for trying to speak truth to power about Islam, but who actually resigned after the bureau learned he’d had a sexual relationship with a witness in a case that had nothing to do with Islam or terrorism — is by no means universally accepted as a valid anti-terrorism expert. His record of offensive (not to say unhinged) statements is regularly recirculated by advocacy groups and cited in local media when he turns up somewhere to conduct training or promote his consulting business. Recently, the Texas Commission on Law Enforcement retroactively denied accreditation to a seminar Guandolo gave in that state in early May, declaring that his material “paints an entire religion with an overly broad brush .” But his views haven’t shut his business down, either. Despite adverse publicity, he continues to get contracts from law enforcement clients who, it is safe to say, would not dream of hiring a consultant expressing comparable views about African Americans or other minorities.

Guandolo’s case is far from unique. Even while post-9/11 presidents George W. Bush and Barack Obama, as well as other political leaders, strongly rejected war-on-Islam rhetoric, inflammatory material about Muslims turned up repeatedly in counterterrorism briefings and training materials for federal national security and public safety personnel as well as in programs for local agencies.

These and a great many other examples point to a troubling but indisputable conclusion: politicians, other public figures, and public institutions in America may not get a completely free pass when linked to Islamophobic bigots, but they certainly get a reduced-fare ride.

The same can be said about the bigots themselves. They have plenty of critics, but have nonetheless gained an influential voice in the public dialogue — and have much more credibility than they deserve, given that their arguments are largely premised on false logic and provably phony evidence.

An Imaginary Menace

The imaginary sharia conspiracy, to take just one example, is completely at odds with both facts and common sense.

To begin with, the Islamophobes’ description of sharia as a kind of official manual, a comprehensive “legal-political-military doctrine” spelling out a single set of rules that all Muslims are bound to obey, is wildly inaccurate. It bears no resemblance to the sharia that actually exists in Muslims’ lives, a constantly evolving guide to moral principles, religious practice, and personal conduct not formulated in any one document but drawn from many interpretations by scholars and religious thinkers across the Muslim world — the exact opposite of the “totalitarian socio-political doctrine” that the anti-sharia movement says Muslim infiltrators want to impose on the United States.

Moreover, there is no indication that such a plot actually exists. Even the most rabid conspiracy theorists have not produced a single piece of credible evidence that anyone anywhere has actually tried to infiltrate the American legal system and covertly convert it to Islamic law (nor have they ever explained how that might be done). No evidence shows that homegrown or foreign jihadists who have carried out or planned terrorist acts against Americans were trying to impose sharia or Islamize the United States, either. Peter Bergen, who examined the records of 330 “home-grown” terrorists for his book The United States of Jihad, mentions one young man who mused in a blog posting about “the possibility of banning alcohol consumption in the States.” Other than that, in 280 pages of text there is not a single indication that any of his subjects thought they were acting to bring Americans under Muslim rule.

Lastly, even if the conspiracy were real, it’s inconceivable that it could succeed. Consider, for instance, conservative evangelical Christians, who are perhaps a quarter of the national population (and broadly identify with the same faith as the large majority) and are politically influential out of proportion to their numbers. They have been unable to reverse court rulings on school prayer, abortion rights, and gay marriage, despite years of strenuous effort. And we are asked to believe that there is a realistic threat that a minority religious group making up 1% of the population — actually, as the authors of one critical commentary pointed out, a small extremist fraction of that 1% — could subvert the legal and governmental system and impose its “laws” on the other 99%? To any rational person, that is a ludicrous argument. But the conspiracy theorists have convinced a surprising number of people, including state legislators who have enacted anti-sharia laws in a dozen states and introduced similar legislation in many more.

Beyond any possible dispute, the sharia conspiracy is a fabrication, an imaginary threat conjured up to stoke public fear and hostility toward Muslims. No responsible official or opinion maker should give it any legitimacy. Yet, as the news agency Middle East Eye recently disclosed, it is presented as a real issue on the quintessentially establishment platform of President Trump’s official campaign fund-raising website. A survey on the site, titled “Listening to America 2018,” asks for visitors’ views on a number of issues including, in question 27, “Are you concerned by the potential spread of sharia law?”

Simply putting it on the list along with identically formulated questions about school safety, illegal immigration, abortion, gun control, trade policy, and other subjects is a clear suggestion that the “spread of sharia law” is of equivalent public concern, a legitimate question for voters to consider. Moreover, since those taking the survey will presumably include many respondents who had not thought about the issue before, that question will undoubtedly plant that subject — and the fear that goes with it — in more minds.

There’s no way to know if that question is on the survey because its designers or the Make America Great Committee fundraisers who put it on the site actually thought of sharia as a real problem for Americans. Maybe they just saw it as a useful hot-button term that could help energize the voters and potential campaign donors they wanted to reach. Either way, it is yet another small but telling example of a broader reality: in today’s America, disparaging Islam is acceptable in ways that disparaging other religions is not (and make no mistake, spreading a grotesque caricature of sharia and condemning it as evil and dangerous is a slur on the Muslim faith).

Given the continuing well-funded campaigns by the Islamophobes and continuing support from their enablers in the Trump administration, starting with the president himself, it seems unlikely that this trend will be reversed any time soon.

Arnold R. Isaacs, a journalist and writer based in Maryland, is the author of From Troubled Lands: Listening to Pakistani and Afghan Americans in Post-9/11 America and two books relating to the Vietnam War. He is a TomDispatch regular. His website is

(Republished from TomDispatch by permission of author or representative)
• Category: Ideology • Tags: Donald Trump, Islamophobia, John Bolton, Muslims 
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  1. “Islamophobia” as official government policy?

    Good. It’s about twenty years past time for that.

  2. fnn says:

    It’s only acceptable because it’s backed by the militant Zionist sector of the Jewish community. I’m sure you know that.

    • Replies: @cylindrical crown
  3. We all need someone to hate. If we can’t hate Jews or Blacks, Muslims will have to do.

    • Agree: jacques sheete
    • Replies: @Moi
    , @artichoke
    , @jsolbakken
  4. anonymous[340] • Disclaimer says:

    Most of what I read here at Unz sourced to TomDispatch sounds like what caused me to give up years ago on NPR. Little is questioned, much is assumed, everyone knows what they’re supposed to think.

    Mr. Issacs is upset about what other people say about Islam. Those people, he says, are “strident … virulent … bigots …” This comes across as fear mongering about fear mongering.

    Is the rest of the essay as heartfelt as the author’s first three paragraphs? Classic NPR-style presumption that serves as a low voltage electric fence for the sheep.

    • Replies: @Forbes
  5. m___ says:
    @Seymour Buhtz


    A dud as ever. Today. The accent should be placed on “draining the swamp”, Jewish influence mongering to push the conflictive struggle with White Ethno Americans and their influence. White Americans are the real contestants of power and policies in the US. The only menace that has meaning bottom up to the Jewish mentality and method of ruling.

    Immigration policies as a consequence: regulated, and policed, will take care of civil stability, genetic inheritance. Including the Muslim Question: the only danger in it can be barred by the immigration policies, being “breeding wars”. The Muslim populations as the Jews in the eighteenth century Eastern Europe tend to breed for maximizing off-spring, with no regard for upwards mobility(not present), perfectly content to dwell at base level. The level of consuming digital porn, corn syrup and palm oil. Hence the problem White North Western European streets face.

    The Jewish mostly, including the sold out White ethnic elites, concept of dominance locally is to tune(immigration) local populations that can be played out to each other. In the now, drowning the insurgence of White identity to convert into real political power, the horror.

  6. KenH says:

    No doubt Arnold Isaacs is Jewish judging by the surname . First off, where is it written that to criticize, distrust or cast aspersions upon Islam and Muslims constitutes “Islamophobes”? Second, Isaacs, being Jewish, probably had no issue at all with the Anglophobia and Christianophobia of the Obama administration and his kinsmen in the (((American media))). He only mounts his high horse when whites step out of line and buck orthodoxy.

    One of the greatest repositories of Islamophobia today is the state of Israel.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Avery
  7. Gracebear says:

    What’s your case For the religion and practice of Islam in America and why should the rest of us tolerate or welcome it or more Muslims?

  8. I hope the USA will learn from the mistakes made by European countries. Our continent has parallel societies that are in part hostile to their host country. We are resigned to Jihadist spree killings every few weeks. Any prominent person whose speech, writing, or art offends Muslims will need lifelong police protection, if he does not want to get his throat cut.

    Muslim minorities behave according to their size. Under 1% of the population they are not a problem. When the proportion reaches 5% (Britain) there are a dozen attempted attacks each year, most of them thankfully foiled. At 10% (France) there are targeted attacks on Jewish schools and stores. The Swedish city of Malmo was, until recently, one of the safest cities in the world. Now it is 43% Muslim, and the level of violence is so high that mainstream Swedish politicians are seriously considering introducing martial law.

    Anyone who reports these facts risks anathema as an “Islamophobe” or “anti-Muslim bigot”.

  9. What a strange article. Perhaps the most unfocused I have seen on this site to date.

    The author is a fan of the straw man: we shouldn’t worry about Sharia or growing Muslim numbers because there is no evidence of a grand plot to take over the USA.

    “Moreover, there is no indication that such a plot actually exists.”

    Well, there is some evidence. Testimony from various Muslim Brotherhood figures, the guy who tried to take out the twin towers before 9/11, and the head of Turkey urging Turks to outbreed Germans. Given those statements, it’s not a huge stretch to consider that maybe Muslims use reproduction and immigration as a strategy.

    Resting the argument on such a flimsy concept of “Islamophobia” pretty much makes the article lightweight.

    The author asks us to consider evangelical Christians (the whipping boys of the Jewish left, who oddly enough get no credit for their philo-semitism and support of Israel) and their inability to change the dominant culture despite their large population percentage.

    The author apparently fails to consider that evangelical Christians are not Muslims. They don’t tend to assassinate cartoonists, movie producers, rival politicians and the like. They are more annoying than ruthless, and their religion does not (Calvinism and other interpretations aside) call for war against the unbelievers and the merger of state and religious power.

    All the author has to do is put aside the ramblings about islamophobia and look at two things:

    1) How muslim populations are ACTUALLY behaving in the EU, Thailand, etc.

    2) The Cairo Declaration on Human Rights. No need for detailed examination of the Koran, simply look at the most progressive document put forward in the Muslim world. It is completely incompatible with western culture.

    • Replies: @Arg
    , @Colin Wright
    , @Moi
  10. Logan says:

    That’s a loonnnggg example of question-begging.

    Prove that concerns about Islam and especially Islamists are not justified in any way, and then we’ll talk. You don’t get to just assume it and proceed merrily on your way.

    Muslims are not Jews, or blacks, or any other group. They’re Muslims, and you can’t extrapolate the inappropriateness of antagonism towards any other group to Islamaphobia without proving your case.

    Arguably, Islam, if taken literally, has a good deal more in common with Nazism or fascism than it does with “other religions.” But the author seems to have no trouble at all with assuming fasciphobia is okey-dokey.

  11. Tyrion 2 says:

    A lot of US anti-Muslim sentiment seems to come from looking at the problems in Europe. In France, in particular, a genuine low-level Muslim insurgency has been running for the last few years. This is a big deal and is bizarre given that it is France not Saudi.

    Having said that, except for Somali refugees and the like, most US Muslims seem to have arrived through a process of extremely selective migration and so are quite unlike their co-religionists who pitched up in Europe.

    And no-one in the US or Europe is as prejudiced towards these European Muslim immigrants as those immigrants’ elites were to them, when they were back home.

    • Replies: @artichoke
  12. Islamophobia? what bollocks. There is nothing illogical about hatred for those who would destroy the thousand year old culture of the West.
    Would that the 2 million jews who invaded the US between 1880 and 1920 were evicted (and for the same reasons).

    Longshanks was right, Cromwell horribly wrong.

  13. Renoman says:

    It’s not a phobia it’s just plain hatred and what may I ask is Not to Hate? Fuck them and their 12th Century bullshit religion, they hate us why should we not hate them, they bring nothing to the table they have low IQ and do not mix with our societies. Fuck em!

  14. Arg says:

    @jbwilson24 I basically agree with your response. But you could also have added that Isaacs’ treatment of the sharia is ridiculous. It’s almost like he’s never heard of, let alone read any part of, the Reliance of the Traveller or something, preferring instead to take the word of a bunch of Islamic apologists. You know, the kind that constantly get caught lying about the contents of their own sacred texts. Stephen Coughlin’s book Catastrophic Failure goes through a detailed enumeration of the Islamic threat doctrine and closely examines the sharia for the interested infidel.

    As a side note, freely slandering Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller, as Isaacs does, is distasteful. Hitchens was right when he said that islamophobia is a word created by fascists, used by cowards, to manipulate morons.

    • Replies: @Saxon
  15. Alden says:

    I’m familiar with Brigette Gabriel. She’s Lebanese Christian, lives with her family in Los Angeles and speaks about how Islam adversely affected Lebanon.

    She’s not Islamaphobic. She’s honest.

  16. utu says:

    No Israel, no problems with Muslims, no Islamophobia. Perhaps we should listen to Kevin Macdonald about the ‘Jewish influence over the political process.’ W/o this influences Israel would have to learn to behave.

    • Agree: Colin Wright, Them Guys
    • Replies: @Biff
    , @Anon
    , @Anonymous
  17. Wally says:

    Of course Marxist Jews like Issacs cannot truthfully demonstrate what is incorrect with ‘holocaust’ Revisionists research. Yet ‘holocaust’ Revisionists can shatter the lies of the ‘holocaust’.

    But then such are the faithful flock of the ‘Holocaust’ Religion.

    Rational thought, logic, & science are irrelevant when it comes to fantasies that benefit Jews.

    “Some stories are true that never happened.”
    – Elie Wiesel

    The ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    see the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here:
    No name calling, level playing field debate here:

  18. Anonymous[169] • Disclaimer says:

    various anti-Muslim conspiracy theorists, including … Robert Spencer [of]

    As every good subject of the oligarchy knows, “conspiracy theorists” are bad-thinkers and must be cleared from every good-thinking mind.

    Is Arnold Isaacs really too stupid to read what the ACTUAL QUR’AN says about Jews? Start with Sura 9, 4 and numerous others.

    Should America really follow the example of France and Germany by importing unassimilable hordes of Third Worlders steeped in 7th century desert supremacism?

    • Replies: @Moi
    , @ploni almoni
  19. Wally says:

    ” Islam, if taken literally, has a good deal more in common with Nazism or fascism than it does with “other religions.” ”

    Please give specific examples to back that up.

  20. Ignorance rules.
    Cultures do exist, they defend themselves.

    The Netherlands is a good example, Holland, the part of the present Netherlands to the north of the rivers, began trough rebellion against a far away king in Spain, Philips II, a devout catholic, raised in a feudal agrarian society.
    His father, who resided in Brussels, sent him there for his education.
    This father did not foresee the consequences, losing one of the richest parts of his empire.
    Holland became rich through trade, Amsterdam was halfway between the Baltic and southern Europe.
    The then still existing inland sea, Zuiderzee, was well protected against storms.

    But, trade can only flourish by tolerance, such tolerance is not needed in a feudal agrarian society.
    Tolerance also causes independent thinking, Holland became protestant.
    This was unacceptable for Philips, so religious that his palace, the Escorial, was in fact a monastery.
    Philips’ bedroom was next to the kathedral, his bedroom window opened into the cathedral.
    Anyhow, we won our 80 Year War, that is, what our history books tell us.
    In reality the Ottoman empire and England won our war.

    To come to my point, the Dutch 17th century culture became Dutch by discriminating the catholics, the provinces south of the rivers were called ‘wingewesten’, ‘provinces that provided money’.
    The present idea that it is possible for cultures to have equal rights, a phantasy, in my opinion.
    Even the Germans are discussing ‘can Muslims be integrated’, translated, be made into real Germans.
    My opinion, no.

    Since more than ten years I have a Muslim hairdresser, of Turkish origin, born in the Netherlands.
    Is he culturally Dutch, no, in my opinion, he longs to go ‘back’ to Turkey.
    Does he feel any connection, except in practical matters, with the country where he was born, again, no.
    Are Dutch Turks discriminated, yes, in my opinion.
    They work in Turkish businesses, set up businesses.
    A few have jobs in the state administration, or at universities.
    The last category complains about discrimination, the first, such as the mayor of Rotterdam, Aboutaleb, a capable man, permanent discussions about them.

  21. @Seymour Buhtz

    ‘“Islamophobia” as official government policy?

    Good. It’s about twenty years past time for that.’

    Change one word, and your post could have been made in 1933.

    Great minds think alike, huh?

    • Replies: @Olorin
  22. @jbwilson24

    ‘The author is a fan of the straw man: we shouldn’t worry about Sharia or growing Muslim numbers because there is no evidence of a grand plot to take over the USA.’

    Well, concerns about Sharia are ridiculous.

    While Muslim numbers may be growing, their numbers are miniscule compared to other groups. This is a bit like worrying about how you left the light on when the house happens to be on fire.

    …and indeed, there is no grand plot to take over the US. At any rate, it’s certainly not Muslims we need to worry about there.

  23. @James N. Kennett

    There is a gigantic difference between the USA and European countries.
    Europe consists of some 28 countries, cultures, with different languages.
    The USA is not a melting pot, it is stew, all the original ingredients, cultures, still are there.
    The creation of the USA was possible by allowing the different cultures to live side by side, isolated from one another, with a dominant culture, those who came with the Mayflower.

    The EU court dreams of a Europe like the USA, in order to make this happen the cultures should be mixed, and/or destroyed.
    Allowing mass immigration, mainly Muslim, from the Middle East, and Africa, should do the trick, is my idea.
    A big miscalculation, we now see.

    EU ‘leaders’ complain more and more of us turning to the right, in fact no more than nationalism.
    If the EU’s real leader, Merkel, will still be in office in a few weeks time, I wonder.
    She goes under through her Willkommen policy.

    With the other big problems, the euro, Italy is bankrupt, Deutsche Bank is broke, GB is leaving, more and more resentment against free movement and settlement of persons, I wonder if the EU will survive the next few years.
    Let me add that hope may be the father of the thought.
    Maybe, I’m old and in bad health, I will still live when, what I hope, the Netherlands will again be a sovereign country.

    • Agree: artichoke
  24. Biff says:

    Finally, a sane post apart from the rest of the idiots – AKA Dupes, and Suckers.

  25. Saxon says:

    It’s the Jewish element here as well. Of course this article makes no sense, unless of course you look at it like you look at the more honest Jews like this Rabbi, Pinchas Goldschmidt, who openly admitted that he’s “fighting alongside Muslims brothers against Old Europe.” Or little tiny Tim Wise, who pretended to be white for the longest time while pushing anti-white messaging and talking about how wonderful it will be in the future when there are no white people, which is of course the real goal of flooding us with this human refuse.

  26. Joe Walker says: • Website

    “Anti-Muslim bigotry” as you call it is largely caused by Islamic terrorism. If Muslims would stop engaging in terrorist activities you would see a substantial decline in any “bigotry” against them.

  27. Sounds serious. If you’re serious take them in Israel. [crickets]

    Oven is at 616. Skin’s getting nice and crispy!

  28. Arnold (((Isaacs))) should be deported.

    Mohammedans are an enemy civilization and there is no reason to accept them in our lands.

    The “double standard” on so-called bigotry (I do not accept The Enemy’s definition of bigotry) is to be remedied by removing the taboo of discrimination against other troublesome groups, not by adding Mohammedans to the pantheon of garbage outgroups we’re expected to worship.

    • Agree: German_reader
  29. Mr. Isaacs should spend some time in Hamtramck, Michigan. “Islamophobia” would likely drop out of his vocabulary. A “phobia” by definition is an irrational fear — there is nothing irrational about not wanting more Hamtramcks in this country.

  30. Anyone who uses the term “Islamophobia” is not a serious thinker and should be ignored.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  31. If Mr. Isaacs is really concerned with “Islamophobia” he should start by speaking out against his brothers in the IDF who murder Palestinians by the hundreds every year and deny them any shred of human rights and dignity.

    • Replies: @Jared Eliot
  32. Ronnie says:

    Your subtle message is that Macdonald drawing attention to Jewish influence over the political process is some sort of anti-semitism. At best, you are irrational if you think this and you are dishonest if you want other people to think this. Adelson gave more than 80 million to the GOP, Saban was also the largest individual contributor to the Dems and now Bloomberg says that he will give more than 80 million to the Dems. It is openly admitted by everyone that Jews contribute much more than 50% of all funds going to both parties. And naturally this money can come with conditions. In the case of Adelson this condition was for Trump to make Jerusalem the capital of Israel. Therefore, Jews have a dysfunctional effect on US foreign policy. Stop trying to disguise this fact with your slippery words.

  33. Anonymous[868] • Disclaimer says:

    Muslims should stay in there own country. Christian or not, white people have little in common with Muslims. Our living in the same space causes tension.

    Even if through dialogue we establish some commonality, it still doesn’t change anything between us. Dogs eat, and so do humans. Except our relationship with our pets is more valuable and genuine than any relationship so far forged with a Muslim.

    Muslim sympathizers are pathetic. They care more about strangers than their own people.

    Wherever they go, Muslims bring with them the values that made their current society. A Pakistani will never be an American no matter how hard he or she tries. They make our country worse. Do you think an American travels to Pakistan to become a Pakistani? Of course not. The reasons are obvious. This is ridiculous.

    Time to start increasing the pressure on foreign folk to leave. If where you’re from is so wonderful, move back.

  34. @Colin Wright

    “Well, concerns about Sharia are ridiculous.”

    Very true! Muslims have minimally six Sharia. Whose Sharia we will implement meaning which sect of Muslims. The infighting will soon start between them as human cannot live without infighting.

    Maybe, we implement the “head chopping” Wahhabi or ISIS Sharia. Or the ISISraHell 623 Laws (Sharia).

  35. In a survey of the world’s most obscenely virulent hate literature the Jewish Talmud–and certainly not the Koran–will always come out on top. There is no document I’ve seen that is more racist, hate-filled and inhumane. If Gabriel thinks Muslims who believe the Koran cannot be American citizens, then how can anyone who buys into the Talmud even rise to the level of human being?

  36. @MikeatMikedotMike

    There is a serious problem with Islam, the same as we had with churches, not even so long ago.
    Islam does not accept a separation between state and religion.
    Though in theory in the Netherlands churches and the state were separated, the influence of churches just began to disappear around 1960, when secularisation began.
    In our 17th century protestant ministers were a political force of importance.
    In the fifties catholic priests told in the churches what party to vote.
    Church control of society in Ireland just now is diminishing.
    France professes to be secular, it is not.

  37. Jake says:

    If, as I assume, Isaacs is a Jew, then he is part of the most culturally suicidal wing of contemporary Western Jewish life: the wing that has become militantly defensive, even protective, of all things Moslem as they spread jihad across the Western world. That wing of Jewishisness today proceeds from the same source as its white Gentile version: far too much tender-heartedness based on the beyond childish assumption that if you are extra nice to bad people, they will stop being bad.

    That is false to human nature, which is the reason it has been a persistent defect in Western thought since the Enlightenment which turned it loose as a central part of the rejection of historic Christian understanding of Original Sin (and more so as a pendulum reaction against the Luther/Calvin Reformer perversion of Original Sin into the notion that man has no free will {which, it is helpful to this subject to know, actually accords well with Islam} and many, perhaps most, men are created by God to be damned).

    But it is worse than that in this case because Islam is the religion of Ishmaelites, which means it is the religion of Semites who see themselves as the wrongly mistreated half siblings of Hebrews/Jews. And no people on earth are more focused on ‘getting even’ for even the most faintly perceived wrongs than Semites. Think the Anthony Quinn appearance scene in Lawrence of Arabia.

    Right, the number of Moslems nursing a fiercely burning desire to pay back Jews is growing toward the billion mark. Tens of millions of Moslems who today seem perfectly normal will turn, under the right circumstances, into the ‘moderate’ wing of an Islamic fury to virtually exterminate Jews from the globe: as payback not merely for the modern state of Israel but also for Ishmael and Hagar being dumped in the desert. It will be Hutus after Tutsis writ global.

    • Replies: @Simply Simon
  38. Anonymous [AKA "Mitchell Mark Jones"] says:

    You see the point exactly…to Isaacs it’s all about his sacred ox that’s being gored.

  39. Moi says:
    @Colin Wright

    We have a history of hate going back to Plymouth Rock.

    • Replies: @Them Guys
    , @Anon
    , @Ace
  40. Moi says:

    Forget about Sharia–I worry about folks constantly harping about our Judeo-Xian heritage.

    • Replies: @Them Guys
    , @Colin Wright
  41. Moi says:

    Nah, we should stick with our first century mythology of a person rising after crucifixion.

    • Replies: @denjae
    , @Ace
  42. Is this article a joke? I am no Zionist or philosemite but I do not want Muslims in this country. This primitive, violent cult has no place in any Western country. They can take allah, jizyah,sharia, dhimmitud
    and all their other barbaric ideas and shove them.
    The author if this gibberish is a deluded fool.

  43. It’s time for a new God.

    God 4.0.

    A God who says, “you know what, I’ve had enough of this shit. It’s time to intervene 24/7 in my Creation to make things right. I made a Mistake. What I promised was Free Will has turned out to be quite the opposite. I have to alter The DNA Formula and eradicate the mechanism responsible for Psychopathy because The Psychopaths are the only ones with Free Will. The rest of Humanity are their Prisoners.”

    God 4.0 will avenge, in REAL TIME versus an illusive Afterlife, The Little People and smote The Psychopaths. It will be brutal and it will be beautiful.

    The Exaltation of this Triumph will be so awesome and spectacular, it will be practically unbearable. The joyful bliss of finally being free will be consuming. Transformative.

    God 4.0 will do what we, The Little People, should not be forced to do. No God worth its salt should require the Betters of its Creation to engage in Barbarous Violence to right its Mistake.

    God 4.0 is an Accountable God and an Accountable God admits and rights its Mistakes.

    Build it, and God 4.0 will come.

    Pimp In Chief

    I Really Don’t Care, Do U?

  44. Anonymous[312] • Disclaimer says:

    Muslims have been in this country since the first African slaves were brought over. American blacks have converted. Muslims from the Middke East, Pakistan, and elsewhere have immigrated. And yes even a few white Americans of European descent have converted. They are here already.

    There is nothing inherently evil about Islam any more than there is about Christianity or Judaism.

    Yes, extremists exist. We should be asking what role the US has in supporting Radical Islam as a tool for geopolitical goals. We all should know by now that the US and Saudi Arabia used Islam as a tool to fight the Russians in Afghanistan. These pipelines still exist. Our ally Saudi Arabia still funds them. Remember 15 out of 19 hijackers on 9/11 were Saudi, Bin Laden was Saudi.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  45. Anonymous[312] • Disclaimer says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Neither does Evangelical Christianity.

  46. Rags says:

    Muslim people are not a good fit for ‘Murica. We don’t have enough virgins these days.

  47. @Seymour Buhtz

    No doubt “Seymour” is looking in the mirror if it sees more “Buhtz.”

    Civilization, in fact, grows more and more maudlin and hysterical; especially under democracy it tends to degenerate into a mere combat of crazes; the whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary.

    -H.L. Mencken, In Defense of Women, p27, (1918)

    Mencken has been proved correct, again.

  48. @Gracebear

    What’s your case For the religion and practice of Islam in America and why should the rest of us tolerate or welcome it or more Muslims?

    Usury is frowned upon, I think.

    What’s your case fthe cult and practice of Zionism in America and why should the rest of us tolerate or welcome it or more Zionists?

  49. @Logan

    Arguably, Islam, if taken literally, has a good deal more in common with Nazism or fascism than it does with “other religions.” But the author seems to have no trouble at all with assuming fasciphobia is okey-dokey.

    If you would care to examine the behavior of governments in general, they are typically all variants of fascism to one degree or another.

    Despite the propaganda, Bolshevism and its supporters were true fascists and so are the State of Israel and its US and other puppets today.

  50. c matt says:

    Consider, for instance, conservative evangelical Christians, who are perhaps a quarter of the national population (and broadly identify with the same faith as the large majority) and are politically influential out of proportion to their numbers. They have been unable to reverse court rulings on school prayer, abortion rights, and gay marriage, despite years of strenuous effort.

    Yes, let’s consider. At 25%, they can hardly get anything that would be in their favor. Yet, Zionists and gays, who are 2% or less, can get their way at every turn. Remind me again who is politically influential out of proportion to their numbers? Are you even paying attention to what you just wrote – the 2% overruled the 25%, and you are saying we should not worry about a Muslim 10% ????

  51. anonymous[739] • Disclaimer says:

    Somehow I doubt ARNOLD ISAACS is also a great defender of Muslim rights or Arab or other Muslims moving across the Israeli/Gaza border wall to reposes their grandparents property before they were ethnically cleansed by ARNOLD ISAACS’ tribe.

    Somehow I suspect that ARNOLD ISAACS demands open US borders, mass migration to the USA from the entire world, including the entire Islamic 3rd world, but at the same time insists that Israel has every right to shoot to cripple Palestinians in Gaza protesting near the Gaza border wall.

    It’s the rank hypocrisy of these Zionists, Neo Conservatives or just standard J tribe “Liberals” (not) that has many intelligent people just “noticing” that these people are not open to reason or fairness and just use slander, smears, ad hominem attacks and doxing to ruin the lives of anyone who they don’t like.

    Supposedly we still have the 1st Amendment rights of free speech in the United States as enshrined in our US Constitution which wasn’t written or signed by any of ARNOLD ISAACS’ tribe. But, in practice the likes of pervert Harvey Weinstein have unlimited free speech to produce sick, violent anti Southern hate porn movies like “D’jango Unchained” and mass open these violent hate porn movies…


    But, for those of us Midwesterners, Southerners, dispossessed Yankees in places like Connecticut and Maine – we really don’t have freedom of speech or even freedom of thought – if we oppose Neo Conservative/Zionists wars in places like Iraq, Syria or Serbia – we are smeared, marginalized by the likes of David Frum

    “Unpatriotic Conservatives” “We turn our back on you, you’re purged”

    Any of us trying to implement Israel style border walls on the Mexican border with Texas, we’re now smeared as the worst NAZIs putting little children in NAZI concentration camps.

    I was a 7th grade public school teacher in Brooklyn NY late 1980s – I got called a lot of names, big F*#**$*@ deal.

    So ARNOLD ISAACS is calling principled mostly White Gentile Americans a lot of mean names – big F#*$&#**@$# deal.

    We can call Arnold Isaacs some mean names:

    Israel/Neo Conservative/Zionist spy
    Mexican cartel enabler

    Or just yet another vicious, and yes HATEFUL F*#&$# Je*.

    With such types it’s useless to try to use reason or work for common ground. They hate us, work to see us replaced in all our countries.

    These hateful people now have their own homeland…

    Israel the homeland of the Jews.

    So let them go home.

    There’s no place like home.

    • Replies: @artichoke
  52. Mohammed was a homicidal warlord. Good luck defending Islam.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  53. denjae says:

    A myth . . . as with all myths . . .

    presented at a level that provides for both LITERAL and METAPHORICAL interpretation

    As the old Indian concludes his re-telling of the story of The White Bison Spirit Woman . . .

    “I do not know if what I just recounted to you actually happened or not . . .

    but if you think about it, you can see that it is true.”

    (Hope that’s not too deep.)

    • Replies: @Moi
    , @Them Guys
  54. Jewsplaining Islamophobia. Yeah right. This is gonna change my life.

  55. anonymous[739] • Disclaimer says:

    It is one of THE most bizarre facts of history and current events that Saudi Sunni Islamists and the American Jewish political/media/academic elite are on the same side on all things that matter and are constantly promoting the worst policies attacking, replacing White European Americans and White Europeans in European countries.

    Both Saudi Arab Sunni Islamists and Israel and the American Jewish political/academic/media elite did not allow ANY Syrian war refugees to migrate in to Saudi Arabia or Israel – this despite the fact that Israel occupies a part of Syria – the Golan Heights.

    Yet both Saudi Arabia Sunni Islamists and Israel the Jewish diaspora demand that Western European countries MUST accept unlimited numbers of Syrian war refugees and also accept virtually unlimited numbers of young Muslim male migrants. Saudi Arabia has offered to fund the construction of 700 plus new mosques in Europe for these Muslim migrants (so generous).

    Saudi Sunni Islamists and Israel /the Jewish diaspora were/are also on the side on these never ending, God awful Neo Conservative US wars, interventions in Iraq and Syria to replace secular Arab Batthist regimes with…..


    Total anarchy?

    Genocide of Arab Christians

    ISIS coming to power.

    The lying Neo Conservative Zionist (with Saudi Sunni support) war propaganda in Iraq and Syria has been as bad as it gets

    Saddam having weapons of Mass destruction, Saddam and now Assad being Hitler

    “Syria’s Assad is GASSING LITTLE CHILDREN”

    How many?

    6 Million?


    This alliance between Saudi Sunni Islamists, Israel, and International Zionism is best represented by the marriage of Hillary Clinton’s Chief of Staff Saudi-raised Huma Abedin and failed Jewish New York City mayor designate Anthony Weiner. Anthony Weiner was derailed for doing Harvey Weinstein type sexual degeneracy.

    So I have to ask Unz Review:

    “Who hates whom?”

    Seems like this Arnold Issacs guy really hates us – and the leaders of Saudi Arabia, Israel the American Jewish political/media/academic elite…..

    They really hate us.

    People should act accordingly.

    • Replies: @artichoke
  56. Avery says:

    {First off, where is it written that to criticize, distrust or cast aspersions upon Islam and Muslims constitutes “Islamophobes”?}

    Good point.

    So-called ‘Islamophobia’, like all other manufactured ‘-phobias’ is bogus.
    Its purpose is to mentally disarm anyone who is unwilling to live under Sharia law.
    Anyone who doubts that Sharia is what will eventually come here to US needs to see what is happening to Europe.

    Also quite true that anti-Christian bigotry and hatred has been Government and MSM policy for decades. I still remember the Seinfeld episode where Larry David urinates on the picture of Christ.
    It is supposed to be a “joke”, but try doing that against any other (non-Christian) religious symbol in US.

    Same with Anglos, and anyone of European descent: MSM and various groups are openly advocating hatred against what they call ‘whites’. And there is not a peep from anyone.

  57. Tulip says:

    I love these articles, they never define their terms.

    What if a Trump Administration official had close contacts with John Mearsheimer or Stephen Walt who wrote that book about you know who? Would that be beyond the pale? [I’m sure JPod would be tweeting and peeing his pants.]

    What is boring about this article is that there are certain kinds of critiques which are either off-base (not accurate), unfair (not precise), selective, and those offered solely for malice. Most normal people reject these kinds of critiques when they recognize them.

    The problem is the modern Left doesn’t want critiques of any members of its coalition, no matter how accurate, precise, fair and dispassionately they are made. If you make any kind of criticism of Jews or Blacks or LGBT’s or Muslims, they pee in their pants and diagnosis you with some kind of “phobia” or make you out to be some kind of X”-ist”.

    At the same time, they think nothing of making totally off-based, unfair, selective and malicious generalizations about their enemies, whites or cisgendered men or Christians or heterosexuals, etc. If political correctness were actually just “good manners”, “good manners” wouldn’t be reserved only for the “pure races” of Progress.

    Which gets back to the article, and why no definitions. I could get behind attacking people who make false, unfair, selective and malicious generalizations about Muslims, but “Islamophobia” is sure to be only practiced by people making true, fair, accurate, and dispassionate generalizations about Muslims. This strikes me as too close to enabling alcoholics and needle drug users to be an intellectual position that should be taken seriously. Perhaps serious moral reflection on the culpability of the Progressive Left in situations like Rotherham is warranted before writing knee-jerk articles on bigotry?

  58. artichoke says:

    Since I had heard so many demands from Muslims about what we “must” do for them, I asked a Muslim what benefit Muslims bring to us other Americans. He started denouncing me and my question, but he had no answer.

    Anti-Muslim feeling here is as old and as American as Thomas Jefferson and the Marines’ victory on the Shores of Tripoli, against the Barbary pirates who were interrupting trade and enslaving Americans.

  59. artichoke says:

    There’s been a regime change in Saudi Arabia, and they’re now more likely allied with right-wingers in Israel than the left-wing pro-Palestinians there. As for taking refugees (real or fake) from Syria, SA may still be avoiding it, simply because they can. Maybe it’s a part of their deal with Trump.

  60. artichoke says:

    Those Gazans were carrying cleavers (at least) and had announced (in Arabic — is a wonderful thing) that they were going to kill as many Jews as possible. So the IDF stopped them from entering Israel “by any means necessary” in the phrase beloved by leftists.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  61. artichoke says:
    @Tyrion 2

    There’s a well-demonstrated correlation between the sheer number of Muslims and their behavior. The more, the worse. France has more than we do, the USA is still at an earlier stage where they keep their inner thoughts very quiet, although a document in Arabic was translated showing a plan for taking over America, very methodically.

    I wouldn’t assume we have better Muslims, just fewer of them proportionally.

  62. escobar says:

    Islamists and Zionists are very much alike. Judaism and Islam lack what I call the “Sermon on the Mount” element of Christianity and its compassion, mercy and forgiveness, based on empathy they also do not have. (Of course, there are exceptions) Sad that many Christians in the USA have also abandoned those splendid qualities as well and now, as members of churches once rightly called “God’s shopping mall,” worship the Golden Calf.

  63. Wally says:
    @Colin Wright

    “While Muslim numbers may be growing, their numbers are miniscule compared to other groups. ”

    What “other groups”? Numbers & sources please.

  64. Mr. Grey says:

    While American muslims should be treated lawfully, and have all the rights of any other citizen, Islam in inherently un-American and is quite deserving of condemnation. I consider America lucky that we don’t have a large population of muslims.

  65. Anonymous [AKA "Dr Polemeros"] says:

    At first I thought, “Is this April 1st?”

    A student of world religion, I have attended to Islam over years.

    Two thoughts.

    First, it is, by design and inherently, an imperialist and territorial theocracy. That means it is always seeking to expand, by any means, and that it sees the world not as a collection of souls but as a linkage of places. Its typically Semitic legal system recognizes no distinction between sacred law and secular law and, very importantly, it controls the behavior of everyone within its territory, Muslim and non-Muslim both. Islam can only exist as itself in a Muslim State.

    This is really all you need to know about it.

    Thus it is completely incompatible with any Western country.

    Second, we would not be having these discussions if Islam were a White religion. Muslims get all the cover they do because they are a NonWhite group. Imagine Islam as an all-White religion and you’d know that its Western defenders would see it as National Socialism 2.0

    • Agree: Escher
  66. J1234 says:

    Giving a Pass to Anti-Muslim Bigotry

    You mean anti-Muslim opinion. It isn’t bigotry the left wants to control, it’s opinion.

    • Agree: artichoke
  67. I think the Unz Review should provide commentary by the links to their threads. Something like, “This guy is a douche. Ron just posts stuff like this to show what stupid twats are writing these days.” It would help me ignore them so I don’t waste any time reading some cut and paste wanker that wouldn’t know his ass from a hole in the ground.

    • Replies: @Avery
  68. Joann says:

    “Even the most rabid conspiracy theorists have not produced a single piece of credible evidence that anyone anywhere has actually tried to infiltrate the American legal system and covertly convert it to Islamic law.”

    There’s no need when a majority of Muslim individuals are brainwashed enough to auto-create this conspiracy, even without telepathy (they are programmed bots) or help from the Muslim brotherhood and dozens of similar organizations, and when in fact one exists WITHIN the “Liberal” Media, not just the Muslim brain itself and as such. It’s Liberal Globalists who resemble THAT part of the conspiracy, and there’s AMPLE proof for it.

    All you have to be to want to turn America into an “Umma” is dumb, and a Muslim.
    Btw and by Islamic definition, all religions except Islam are Islamophobic – so here you have your unbeatable argument for the next brilliant article, Issac.

  69. Richard Spencer is the real Spencer while Robert Spencer is anything but a real Spencer… just look at the latter’s schnoz. Anyway, a Muslim isn’t one unless he advocates the spread of Islam or in some cases the Sharia but there is no chance of it gaining a foothold in the Americas as long as the Jew is in control of it. But nothing wrong in being vigilant, after all, look what they have done to the Indian Subcontinent… they won’t rest in peace until they have converted them all to medieval perfidy!

  70. Is this a parody? Who knew Ron Unz was a funny guy?

  71. There is no such thing as Islamophobia. That would be an irrational fear of Islam and Muslims. Considering their words and actions and what many have stated regarding what they want to do to us and our society, there is nothing irrational about holding these cats at arms length. Actually dogs.

  72. Ibn Issam says:

    @ ConcientiousObserver
    Speaking of “obscenely virulent hate literature”…..have you read the Bible?

  73. Islamophobia is not a social phenomena. It is the direct result of war propaganda.

    If you listen to AM radio 870 in Los Angeles, you will hear constant war propaganda. It is aimed at the American Jewish communities. They constantly preach a war to protect Israel.

    Go to the central east coast of Florida, along Interstate 95, and you will find another AM talk radio station (frequency?) broadcasting war propaganda to the Christian community. They preach a war against Islam, who they say are a bunch of crazy terriorists trying to destroy western civilization.

    It would all be funny if it weren’t so tragic. But that is war propaganda. Propaganda uses psychological symbols and emotional manipulation and works below the level of conscious awareness. It works on the people it targets, even if it sounds stupid to the rest of us (remember “evil doers”).

    As one expert in this weapon of war stated:

    “And in England they understood one more thing: that this spiritual weapon can succeed only if it is applied on a tremendous scale, but that success amply covers all costs.”

    Americans are supporting the war machine, and their partners in Israel, because they are being manipulated with this weapon of war. Propaganda is very powerful stuff, and you ignore it at your own peril.

  74. Ibn Issam says:

    I would say the plethora of bigoted, hateful, ignorant, disgusting, anti-Muslim remarks in the comment section here actually proves the point of Arnold Issacs article……Islamophobia and anti-Muslim bigotry is clearly acceptable in America and to many commenters here as well, and that is an unfortunate shame.

    The last publicly accepted form of American bigotry and hate, is alive and well thanks to many of the commenters as those above.

    One would think that people would learn from the past. Shame.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @artichoke
  75. Moi says:

    Deep, but not too deep. Most Xians take the resurrection of the man-god literally, not metaphorically.

  76. gwynedd1 says:

    it just falls under dumasaphobia . Yes, I fear large groups of moronic, superstitious people.

    • Replies: @RobinG
  77. @piefacedprince

    Mohammed was a homicidal warlord. Good luck defending Islam.

    Sounds as if you may be describing the G-wd of the Torah, and the Jews of Josephus as well. For certain you’re describing the political Zionist movement of the last century up to the present.

    FYI Mo didn’t kill JC, so perhaps you could forget about him and concentrate on the worst of the homicidal maniacs of today . You can start by reading the article which contains some obvious suggestions even though it isn’t written in comic book form.

  78. @Chris Bridges

    The author if this gibberish is a deluded fool.

    And your comment is typical of that produced by an ignorant brainwashed one.

  79. @Anonymous

    Remember 15 out of 19 hijackers on 9/11 were Saudi, Bin Laden was Saudi.

    Remember, there’s a lot of boolsheet extant.

  80. It’s a weak argument. The author takes as an assumption that any show of cultural resistance to another culture is inherently wrong. The fact that many people share this bad argument does not make it any more of a good argument.

    There’s a point to be made in criticizing the fuelling of anti-Islamic sentiment in order to pursue pointless wars and regime changes and other destabilizing actions in the Middle East and elsewhere. That’s the single most pertinent aspect of this discussion, and it doesn’t even warrant a mention?

    Articles like this are good for only one thing: to make people feel like they’re getting played from both ends. We must at all costs avoid any sort of language or association that can be construed as inciting ill will towards a protected class at home. At the same time, we must accept the rhetoric that our freedoms and interests are being threatened by specific faceless groups from Out There Somewhere.

    The average American pays taxes and elects officials to kill Muslims and fund Russophobia on a grand scale, while constantly being scolded (often in advance, when there’s no specific incident to politicize) for not being welcoming and tolerant enough in his domestic life. It’s a recipe for generating hypocrisy and spite.

  81. @artichoke

    Those Gazans were carrying cleavers (at least) and had announced (in Arabic — is a wonderful thing) that they were going to kill as many Jews as possible.

    You should be a comedian rather than a juvenile disinfo agent.

    And remember, never depend on a knife in a gunfight.

  82. anonymous[739] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ibn Issam

    Nah, there are other forms of acceptable hatred in circles I move in:

    Hatred for child rapists – the Islamic sexual grooming gangs in Rotherham England and other places

    Hatred of ISIS extremists who hold slave auctions in broad daylight in Iraq and Syria.

    Hatred of suicide mass murderers – don’t really know any other group doing this except the religion of peace.

    Hatred of barbaric practices of female genital mutiliation and shooting little girls who want to go to school – Taliban does that in Afghanistan soon bringing this culture to Europe and UK.

    Hatred of just going to a once nice, safe, friendly English, Swedish place and then…. it looks, smells and feels like some 3rd world hellhole in Bangledesh – no friendly faces, lots of creatures all in some Black tent thing.

    “A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.”

    Ecclesiastes 3:8

    • Replies: @Ibn Issam
  83. Avery says:
    @Anonymous White Male

    {I think the Unz Review should provide commentary by the links to their threads. }

    If you read somewhat regularly, you should be able to figure out what the articles/authors advocate, without additional commentary. Ron puts a lot of stuff out there for anyone who wants to read – to read. That is why it is an interesting site to visit. If he advocated some particular thread (…philosophy, idea, movement,…),, the site would become uninteresting and monotonous in short order.

    { It would help me ignore them …….}

    Again, you should be able to figure out from the title or a few words in the opening paragraph what the author is advocating. For example, when I saw this in the sub-title Islamophobia Enters the Government,…..’, I knew immediately what the author is going to advocate or complain about – because the bogus word ‘Islamophobia’ was manufactured to disarm any resistance to Islamization of non-Muslim societies, particularly Western/Christian societies.
    I therefor did not waste time reading the article. Yeah, sometimes you miss out on some interesting stuff if you skip the entire article, but to me the cost/benefit of that decision works out.

    • Replies: @Anonymous White Male
  84. @Chris Bridges

    “The author if this gibberish is a deluded fool”

    Maybe but I’m sure he was paid well.

    • Replies: @joeblogs
  85. Talha says:

    Oh noooeeezzz! Islamophobia again!

    “Islamophobia” is a stupid term that should be abandoned – it shuts down legitimate conversation about the subject from serious people that can rise above “muh feeelz” discourse. I think criticism of Islamic doctrine is fine – criticize it to the moon and back, but at least do yourselves a favor and not listen to the crap peddled by Zionist fronts like Gellar and Spencer – I mean, that’s not too much to ask really (for you own sake). There’s plenty to criticize Islam for (from a post-modern perspective) and plenty of very serious and academic works out there to read. But hey, it’s your life, if you like pro-Zionist propaganda, go for it. Here’s another guy:

    Some people are asking; what are Muslims bringing to the West?

    Hmmmm….materially? Probably nothing much of value. We are a minority and the people that are serious boons to the economy are a minority among those. I would give, say the US, about half a year to completely recover from any economic or healthcare, etc. effects from a complete removal of all Muslims from the territory (it may even result in a big boon to the receiving countries that have been suffering a brain drain to the West). In my estimation, we are fairly expendable in that regard. There might be a constitutional crisis for the duration or perhaps afterwards (there would be amendments needed to current articles – not an easy task), but government is already moving towards deeper centralization and a hyper-security-state so this would simply move things along a little faster.

    Immaterially? Well, Islam offers salvation – so that’s pretty cool. But even then you can kick us out and learn about it on the internet – so that is also out the door.

    Well – I’m out of ideas of why Muslims should be allowed to remain other than maybe people’s regard for rule-of-law (especially the Anglo-Saxon tradition) or perhaps the goodness or charitable feelings of the populace. Also, the West will lose virtue-signalling rights for deporting non-criminal citizens – so there’s that.

    As for Islamophobia…whatever:


  86. This was an interesting article but ultimately an unsatisfying one.

    While Arnold R. Isaacs makes some valid points and observations, he sidestips others.

    And Isaacs–like all the pundits at TomDispatch–avoids exploring the oversized and decisive role played by Zionists in the construction of:

    (1) the dominant pro-Israel (and anti-Muslim) narrative that permeate America’s (((mainstream media))),

    (2) mendacious, controlled, top-down justifications for Zio-American military ‘preemption’ throughout the Middle East, and

    (3) anti-Islamic (((news and entertainment))) throughout the West.

    This is the Big Picture, as well as the Big Problem.

    But Isaacs, like so many on the Left, avoids examining the darker side of America’s unconditional support for the Zionist state. His oversight is no accident.

    Indeed, Isaacs expresses greater comfort with the idea of restricting the Free Speech of ‘anti-Semites’, ‘Holocaust-deniers’, and pro-white advocates since their rhetoric, he claims, goes “beyond the borders of acceptable public discourse”.

    Gee, Arnold, just who gets to establish the ‘borders’ of public discourse?–friends of yours, perhaps? Distant relatives, maybe?

    Isaac’s implied opposition to Constitutionally-protected Free Speech is typical of many Leftists and TomDispatch writers, the majority of whom are probably Jewish-Israeli. They all tend to downplay the savagery of Zionist warmongering as well as hyper-aggressive, pro-Israel meddling as it performs on the world stage. They need to look closer and deeper.

    Isaacs and his pals at TomDispatch are Zionist-friendly gatekeepers. They probably see themselves as guardians of justice–and discourse. So don’t be fooled. Censorship is one of the Left’s favorite tools. Isaac’s opposition to ‘Islamophobia’ (in the form of derogatory speech) comes with a price: increased restrictions on political discourse–and with the usual suspects in control. This ‘cure’ would be worse than the disease.

    Why not leave Free Speech alone, Arnold, and concentrate instead on enlarging the discussion?

    Speech may hurt. But bombs kill. So why not focus on controlling the latter?

    Yet Isaacs and the whiny Left prefer to target anti-Islamic chatter. This is a double-edged sword.

    Exercising speech control today could come in all-too-handy tomorrow if/when Free Speech begins to pose a threat to Israel’s untouchable status in Official Washington. With that in mind, we must leave all political speech unfettered.

    Here’s the real situation, Arnold:

    Your focus on ‘Islamophobia’ is a petty canard. It distracts us from addressing more urgent matters, the crux of our dilemma, which is the ongoing elevation of Israeli interests above all others. This perverse political ‘value’ has produced mass suffering and grave injustice.

    There must therefore be more checks and balances on Israeli extremism. Why should Israeli soldiers be be given a blank check to gun down unarmed protesters? Why does America subsidize this terror unconditionally?

    Devious Israeli activism played a pivotal role in Zio-Washington’s dismemberment of Iraq, Libya, Syria, Palestine and (coming soon) Iran. Does this warmaking not resemble serial mass murder? The corpses are covered with Zionist fingerprints.

    Meanwhile, astute whistleblowers such as Kevin MacDonald and, to a lesser extent, Richard Spencer, are attacked, defamed, ridiculed, made ‘radioactive’, and rendered invisible for bringing attention to the of conundrum of unbalanced Zionist power in the West, of which ‘Islamophobia’ is just one small chapter.

    It’s time we faced the real problem of expanding Zionist power, discussed it openly, and keep on discussing it until we can find a way to combat it.

    Zionism is the root cause of America’s ‘Islamophobic’ contagion as well as escalating military flashpoints which only advance Israeli interests. It’s time to reverse course.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Wally
    , @Ace
  87. This guy must be from the far left. Islam is like Nazism. Would he mind people talking the same way about Nazis. Islam stopped being a religion in 622 A.D. when Mohammed became a warlord. Islam is a totalitarian supremacist political system masquerading as a religion.

  88. cecil says:

    Who is this guy, and why is he so anti-White??

    Its perfectly reasonable to have White nationalists represented in office.

    AS for so called ‘Islamophobia’, its just a word. This is the reality:

    The West, including Canada and America, is not and never was intended to be, a place for “all races and nations”. To claim that it is, or was, is a direct attack on the identity, legitimacy, and existence of the Western people.

    How did the meaning of ‘racism’ go FROM forcibly invading other peoples and their lands TO proudly defending one’s own people & turf from replacist invasion?

    Some basic truths: Access to White people is not a human right

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Dave Bowman
  89. joeblogs says:

    Look up this proposed post WWII plan for Germany:
    The Kaufman Plan.
    Theodore N. Kaufman was the 31-year old owner of a theatrical ticket agency in Newark, New Jersey who published at his own expense a 100-page book titled Germany Must Perish! in March, 1941.
    Amongst other things, the book proposed castration of all fertile German men over 16 years of age, the settling of Germany by foreigners to alter the ethnic base, and partition of the country.
    Now, the wanton destruction of countries all over the Middle East, creating a demography-changing refugee problem, all makes sense, does it not?

  90. @Jake

    What has been stopping to date the “near billion Muslims nursing a fiercely burning desire to pay back Jews?” What will be the “right circumstances?” After all a billion Muslims vastly outnumber the 30 million or so Jews who live in Israel. Could it possibly be that Muslims still organize themselves into sects and tribes and inter-tribal warfare has been going on in the Mideast since the time of Mohammed. Lawrence of Arabia was capable of gaining cooperation of the various tribes to defeat the Turks but under the false promise that the British, French and German colonists would allow the Arabs self-determination. I understand Lawrence bitterly regretted his deception.

  91. Ibn Issam says:


    Every Muslim I know also hates those things too, except last item you listed, which is just plain racist towards Bangladeshi people. Your own personal hate seems to be blindly directed at Islam and Muslims, while I am sure that you give a free pass to the State Terrorism perpetrated by Western Militaries against Muslim countries, just as you clearly give a free pass to anti-Muslim bigotry as well.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Karl
  92. Olorin says:
    @Colin Wright

    Honestly, I don’t see what Seymour’s post has to do with the repeal of the Volstead Act.

    • Replies: @Ace
  93. @Avery

    The problem is that you don’t know if something is irony until you’ve read too many sentences. Of course, the guy was jewish so that should have been a clue, too.

  94. As an atheist (or at least one who disbelieves all the religious myths), I am still strongly against importing jihadis. I’m coming to believe that, by and large, humans may be too stupid to function without religion. The Mohammedans need a holy book to tell them how to wipe their asses for instance and Jews need a holy book to tell them to avoid women on the rag. How stupid must you be to need a divine edict for common sense? Christians, at least, white ones anyway, are self-critical and enshrined our ability to doubt in our First Amendment. Dumb as they are, they nevertheless got this right and have been smart enough to keep it for over 200 years. America is without any doubt a Christian nation and would not be America if her population was Mohammedan or Jewish (or Hinpoo).

    This nonsense is every bit as destructive as the effort to replace white founding stock Americans with third world cannibals and street sh!tters. Destruction of our civilization is the true goal.

  95. Talha says:
    @mark green

    Solid post – thanks.


    • Replies: @Biff
  96. @jilles dykstra

    I’m not sure if you are attempting to morally equivocate modern Islamic issues with past Christian ones by this history lesson?

    Whatever problems Christianity has presented to Europe and the US, they are irrelevant to the problem of Muslim colonization/invasion of those same places.

    The term “Islamophobia” is an invented word used by progressives to re-frame the topic to their advantage, just like all of the other prefixed phobias that are thrown at people who dare speak truthfully about observable reality.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  97. @Gracebear

    Today them, tomorrow they will come for you.

  98. @Anonymous

    When we already have our own.

  99. Talha says:
    @Ibn Issam

    Bro, it’s OK if some people hate us, some people are always going to hate us – that’s not the issue. The big issue is, do they hate us for the correct reasons.

    If a good number of us are acting stupid in West (acting stupid with their women, draining up welfare funds, committing ‘Laaau Akbar van attacks), then we deserve it for not living up to the standards of the sacred law. As you said, we hate those things – I agree most of us do, but a bunch of fool-headed Muslims are doing them – so it’s kind of tough for us to complain. We gotta fix our house, right? Let’s be honest.

    Now if we are doing what we’re supposed to be doing and being an overall benefit to our host societies and helping uplift them and some people still hate us – then that’s fine, that’s standard operation procedure.

    you give a free pass to the State Terrorism perpetrated by Western Militaries

    Pro-tip: Assume others don’t have any moral code that they live by and you’ll never be disappointed. Besides, the crimes of others never justify our crimes; that is not a valid excuse on the Day of Judgement.

    Welcome and hope you stick around. Wa salaam.

    Also – Bangladeshis are awesome; I have rarely met a more humble, unassuming, down-to-earth people. They have no delusions about themselves and are totally comfortable with it.

    • Replies: @Karl
  100. Well since we live in a liberal culture focused around individual rights the only acceptable way to criticise rival ethnic groups that have resources you want or are moving into your territory is to attack non-liberal elements of their culture. Hence, the inevitable emergence of “Islamophobia.”

    White westerners are going to have to defend their lands and project their interests somehow, and since open tribalism clashes with deeply entrenched liberal principles, they are shifting towards a populist form of liberalism which tolerates exclusion of non-whites that hold non-liberal viewpoints. Purist forms of liberalism (such as that which exists on western university campuses) can only function in a society which is insulated from foreign cultures and races. Once, tribalistic foreigners come on scene, then its necessary to resort to more populist tactics.

    • Replies: @ANON
  101. Wally says:
    @mark green

    A fact conveniently not mentioned by Issacs in his article is that he, his Jews and their leftist shills support strict Israeli immigration laws which specify JEWS ONLY, while demanding massive 3rd world immigration into the US & Europe.

    IOW, Muslims in huge numbers for euro-white gentile countries, but none for “that shitty little country”.

  102. RobinG says:

    ” … I fear large groups of moronic, superstitious people.”

    Then you better stay away from CUFI (Christians United for Israel), Gwynnie.

    • LOL: Talha
  103. Wally says:

    Indeed, the UN’s Human Rights of Indigenous Populations states that indigenous Europeans have every right to protect & maintain their way of life, culture, & language from outside interference.

    • Replies: @Andrew E. Mathis
  104. Forbes says:

    “everyone knows what they’re supposed to think.”

    The Tolerant Crowd always proclaiming “no tolerance for the intolerant.” Finger-pointing the blame of hatred with belligerence and vile name-calling of others.

    The contradictions are legion–the self-awareness is absent.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  105. These and a great many other examples point to a troubling but indisputable conclusion: politicians, other public figures, and public institutions in America may not get a completely free pass when linked to Islamophobic bigots, but they certainly get a reduced-fare ride.

    Yet those same politicians, public figures, and public institutions in America do get a completely free pass when expressing their Europhobic bigotry.

    Personally I care nothing for what an Islamophile such as this author has to say about anything.

  106. @Wally

    That convention protects Saami and Basques and not really anyone else in Europe, given the way “indigenous” is defined in the convention.

    Also, the US voted against it, as did Australia and Canada for what should be obvious reasons.

    • Replies: @Wally
  107. Russ says:
    @Seymour Buhtz

    Islamophobia? One surmises that the term Mr. Isaacs uses for what German women endured in Cologne on New Year’s Eve and what British girls suffered in Rotherham in their early pubescence is “lovemaking”.

  108. Wally says:
    @Andrew E. Mathis

    “That convention protects Saami and Basques and not really anyone else in Europe, given the way “indigenous” is defined in the convention.
    Also, the US voted against it, as did Australia and Canada for what should be obvious reasons.”

    “Not really”? What does that mean?

    How is ‘indigenous then defined? Please be specific.

    But Europeans did vote for it.

  109. Art says:

    In the last decade, at the conservative end of the American political spectrum anti-Muslim activists have become, as The Atlantic‘s Peter Beinart has written, “a legitimate constituency group, like people who support gun rights or oppose abortion.”

    All Jews for 70 years have worked to condemn Muslins. America has fallen right in line with the propaganda.

    Now the Jews are attacking white Americans for doing what Jews coerced them into.

    The Jews are busy turning the Muslims into a victim voting block.

    Right wing Jews say “attack Muslims, make war on Muslims” – left wing Jews say “you Muslims look at whitey, he hates you, he is your enemy – vote with us.”

    The Jew thrives on chaos. He divides – he conquers – he makes crazy – he wins – he is evil.

    Think Peace – Do No harm — Art

  110. Karl says:
    @Ibn Issam

    94 Ibn Issam > which is just plain racist towards Bangladeshi people

    perhaps you don’t read the Chittagong newspapers….. I do

    And the police statistics in UK.

    Plenty of Bangladeshis living not far from where Trump grew up in queens. Mostly not troublemakers.

    But also: there isn’t one in 50,000 of them who could become a Landed Immigrant in Canada. You see, Canada is selective. To immigrate to Canada, you have to show evidence that you know how to do more than marry off your 13 year old daughter to her first cousin.

    Were your parents first cousins, Ibn Issam?

    Disclaimer: Bengali women are disproportionately attractive. Perhaps that’s why Saudi government had to dis-allow Saudi guys from bringing home a Rohingya wife….. to avoid creating more Saudia spinsters.

    • Replies: @RobinG
  111. Karl says:

    102 Talha > Bangladeshis are awesome; I have rarely met a more humble, unassuming, down-to-earth people

    Bangladeshis actually display a HIGHER per-capita rate of violence-on-women than your tribe (Pakistanis ) do. And Karachi is a dangerous place to be a woman. Just a couple of days ago, a upper-middle-class 21-year old girl standing around WITH HER FAMILY in an upscale park in Gulshan, was grabbed in broad daylight, and dumped in a ditch a few hours later after being gang-raped.

    Do you ever read the newspapers of the Umma, Talha?

    • Replies: @Talha
  112. Them Guys says:
    @Colin Wright

    jewish msm promoted fear of sharia law in usa is likely done to convince americans to later fully accept and comply with, jewish invented Noahide law for goyim gentiles when the jews achieve their JWO global govnt. Then it will be Talmudic Law for all jews, and Noahide law for all goyim gentiles worldwide.

    It is how jews do most everything and every jewish agenda…Via total deceptions. Like it says in the NT good book, “Beware of the Leven (Yeast) of the Pharisee’s ” their yeast aka lies and fabels and spin on wordings, affect the entire lump as yeast does to a lump of dough. And once mixed into the dough is impossible to remove as it is a chemical reaction which spreads thru entire dough lump. Or lies and fables that screw up entire nations and its peoples until nothing makes sense. And if allowed to continue too long….Its curtains for them and their nation. Just ask 109 prior host nations jews were hosted by.

    Nothing by jews like this article for example can be trusted to Not contain a hidden agenda or ulterior motive. And furthermore between, Islam vs. Talmudic Judaism, BOTH are and always Have been Mortal enemy’s of Euro Whites and Euro White Christians.

  113. @Logan

    Arguably, Islam, if taken literally, has a good deal more in common with Nazism or fascism than it does with “other religions.”

    Islam is Reform Talmudic Judaism, both are supremacist rejecting the idea that other religions have a right to exist as equals.

    If you ever bother to inform yourself about the real aims of the NSDAP, not the version put forward by the victors’ official narrative, you will likely find you agree with many aspects of it.

    • Replies: @artichoke
  114. Them Guys says:

    Indeed, I have always despised all them Rock Haters.

  115. Them Guys says:

    There is no such thing as jewdeo-christian heritage in America or elsewhere. The word combo is a huge oxymoron. Judaism and Christianity have always been direct opposites.

    Until about 50 years ago nobody in usa ever used such idiotic word terms. It is a total fraudulent fake invented by, Apostate Baptist and Protestant pastors trained in their jew taught seminaries like dallas seminary in order to foment jew and Israel worship, and to assist jews in their never ending quest for a JWO global jewish rulership, with their jewish antichrist “king” sitting atop his throne within their 3rd temple once built.

    Anyone that believes in any form of a jewdeo-christianity needs to research Judaism’s Talmud book volumes and see what jewish religious teachings Really state about Christians, Christianity, and about Jesus Christ. Even a small bit of such Talmudic research should fast convince a person so infected by this huge oxymoron fraud of how correct I am here as regards this issue and agenda.

    An also good idea is to read what Paul stated in the new testament, about “Beware of those Judaizer Preacher Men/pastors…For All who follow them and their teachings of Judaizing will Lose their salvation, and not be able to regain it again”. (I Think its in book of Romans? or maybe Galatians?)

    Bottom line is, Euro White and Euro White Christians Created and Built America, and jews have been trying to destroy it ever since they arrived here. And that Oxymoron mentioned prior had a lot to do with that destruction so far. One owes it to one self to heed this good advice and learn truths about Talmudic Judaism vs Christianity etc.

    • Agree: Z-man
    • Replies: @Z-man
    , @artichoke
  116. Them Guys says:

    Was that old Indian’s name by any chance, Eli Da Weazel aka famed Nazi hunter/books writer and overall fanatical jewish liar and teller of very tall tales of holyhoax?

    “Some things are true, even though they never happened”….Eli Da Weazel after being outed as a fraud hoax tales writer.

    • Replies: @Wally
  117. @Anon

    And since they are not (unless they of the genus Football Fan rather than Average Han) idiotic losers, what do you think they are up to? Boosting well selected Russian real estate prices? Money laundering? Am I being naively unimaginative?
    Aha, gambling must be in it somewhere 🙂

  118. @Forbes

    Wouldn’t a variant “no tolerance for the inexcusably ignorant intolerant” be a respectable variant? But maybe it doesn’t deal with the problem of the intolerance of the undereducated dim – say 50 per cent…????

  119. @James N. Kennett

    Yes probably 5 per cent in the UK by now. Wiki says 4.4 per cent in the 2011 census. Too many given that they didn’t settle because they had high ability or qualifications. In Australia it was 2.6 per cent at the 2016 census, up .4 per cent in five years and breeding. Its far from disastrous I guess but likely to cost more than any contribution they make – unlike Chinese and educated Indians.

    So what to do and what to hope for.
    Encourage them to watch porn on their phones do I hear say? Not entirely flippant because there is something to be said for seducing them through many media into secular modernity. But I fear it’s going to be a very long haul before we cease regretting allowing a foothold for substantial number (>1 per cent say). Much will depend on the US getting out of the Middle East. And it would help if the Palestinians could be at peace with Israel.

  120. ANON[759] • Disclaimer says:

    Blame the Hebrews/Judaeans for inventing the genocidal, erratic, punitively authoritarian Jahweh/El which gave license to all subsequent monotheistic destruction.

  121. ANON[759] • Disclaimer says:

    Maybe the football fan subset stands for “idiotic losers” but shouldn’t we suspect casing the joint, maybe money laundering?

  122. ANON[759] • Disclaimer says:
    @unpc downunder

    Sound thinking.

  123. Talha says:

    Sans the men who do violence against women, Bangladeshis are awesome!


  124. Biff says:

    @mark green
    Solid post – thanks.


    Times two

  125. RodW says:

    It’s just a shame that Judeophobia has yet to catch up with Islamophobia.

  126. Anonymous [AKA "K216"] says:

    I’ve met many Muslims while abroad. Even the most passive believe Islam is itself am infallible political doctrine. Muslims will never put loyalty to the United States above their Islam. They do not belong in the United States. By choice they will never assimilate – end of story.

    • Replies: @Talha
  127. Talha says:

    Muslims will never put loyalty to the United States above their Islam.

    This is true; if asked to renounce their Islam or US citizenship – most Muslims would renounce their citizenship in a heartbeat.

    If followers of other religions would do otherwise, those religions are in worse shape than I had previously thought.


  128. @MikeatMikedotMike

    One cannot debate with assertions.
    ” Whatever problems Christianity has presented to Europe and the US, they are irrelevant to the problem of Muslim colonization/invasion of those same places. ”
    But you could read
    Richard Fletcher, ‘Moorish Spain’, Berkeley 1992
    Mark Mazower, ‘Thessaloniki – stad van geesten, Christenen, moslims en joden 1430 – 1950’, 2007, geen plaats van uitgave, (2004, Salonica – City of Ghosts)
    Jason Goodwin, ‘Lords of the Horizons, A History of the Ottoman Empire’, New York, 1999
    T.E.Lawrence, ‘Seven pillars of wisdom’, 1926, 1997, Ware, UK
    Reuben Levy, ‘The social structure of Islam’, London, New York, 1931, 1932, 1957, 1971
    Winston Churchill, ‘The Story of the Malakand Field Force’, 1898, 2004, New York
    Just a few titles.

  129. artichoke says:
    @Colin Wright

    The difference is, the Muslims aren’t ours. We can send (most of) them back and stop more from coming. What good do they do us?

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  130. artichoke says:
    @Ibn Issam

    In the past it’s always been a plus to remove Muslims and a detriment to have them around. (Unless perhaps you’re a Muslim too.) So we do learn from the past. Without such warnings of history and seeing what is happening to Europe, we would be our old soft easily manipulated selves.

  131. RobinG says:

    So, you’re Canadian? That might explain your absolute ignorance of US immigration law.

  132. Talha says:

    I’ve interacted with Karl before. In my estimation, he’s what you call a classic Zionist, hence the prerequisite loathing and caricatures of various Muslim peoples.

    Not that we don’t help reinforce those caricatures at times, eh? 😉


  133. Humbles says:

    The fallacy which this writer commits is common. Here’s your problem: What makes white nationalism offensive is that it promotes discrimination based on race. Anti-semitism is offensive for the same reason. But ISLAM IS NOT A RACE. It is an international and imperialist ideology. At its very tiny core there lies a theological premiss, but everything after that is pure ideology. It is not a race, and it barely what we would recognize as a religion. It is much closer to a mystical imperialist ideology like Nazism.

    It is perfectly acceptable -in fact right and proper- to discriminate based on ideology. I find Islam detestable. There are millions of fine Muslims, but the ideology they hold is destructive and toxic and it should be pointed out as such at every opportunity.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Wally
  134. Karl says:

    136 Talha > the prerequisite loathing and caricatures of various Muslim peoples

    nonsense. I’m a straight-up, plain-vanilla, Hebrew Nationalist

    I have no concern with languages that people speak at home. That’s why I have a good number of friends who hail from Muslim families in Akko (“Acre”), and from the Muslim Circassian villages of Israel.

    I’ve a good number of local-citizen acquaintances in the Kingdom of Bahrain, as well. By the way, Talha, Bahrain treats its Paki guest workers rather better than UAE and Saudi do.

    > Bangladeshis are awesome!

    well, i can forgive you for being un-necessarily polite. Bangladeshis are nice people. There actually is NOT a long list of notable modern accomplishments coming out of Bangladesh. Can someone name one?

    there’s Bangladeshi kids who become rather proficient at maintaining garment-assembly-line machinery…… but they cannot design clever new ones.

    That takes a Korean or a Japanese.

    It gets built in India. Commissioning requires an Indian engineer to get sent on business travel to Bangladesh. He will need to carry his own items that require calibration and care-taken – e.g. : micrometers, feeler blades, torque-wrenches – things like that.

    you do know, of course Talha, that the entirety of South Asia is a swamp of “colorism” prejudice against dusky-skinned persons.

    It’s ok. We Hebrews are quite good at formulating skin lighteners. We can arbitrage your stupidities into bank deposits in Tel Aviv. We are already setup to get merchandise into Port of Chittagong via Singapore

    Speaking of which, I point to Singapore as a shining example of how to handle a sizeable Muslim minority. You want to cut the throats of sheeps for Eid Qurbani? Ok. We’ll import them for you, from Australia.

    You travel to Syria for an ISIS adventure? 20 years in a Singapore prison

    IQ-wise, Bangladeshis are about the same as our Ethiopian Israelis. They are ok for lower-middle jobs. A good way to fleet up a (e.g.) Post Office bureaucracy

    • Replies: @Talha
  135. Talha says:

    It is perfectly acceptable -in fact right and proper- to discriminate based on ideology.

    Hallelujah! Finally, people are getting it; this is exactly the premise behind the dhimmi system – I’m glad some people understand the logic.

    If people do not have a worldview that aligns with yours, having a system that allows them the keys to the castle is not an intelligent way to organize your society.

    Suggested method to deal with the issue, change laws such that Muslims are not allowed certain key positions of power or influence (this is what most Muslim countries do) – this could be anything from specifically marking certain positions in government to be off limits or a certain level of election election level that Muslims cannot get past – say something like state government is the maximum.

    You will have to change Article 6 which states:
    “…no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.”


  136. Talha says:

    hat’s why I have a good number of friends who hail from Muslim families in Akko (“Acre”), and from the Muslim Circassian villages of Israel.

    Good for you to be open to such things.

    you do know, of course Talha, that the entirety of South Asia is a swamp of “colorism” prejudice against dusky-skinned persons.

    Don’t I know it – it’s part of the jahilliyyah that keeps us down; we are often our own worst enemies. As long as we adhere to this kind of mentality, we will continue to be a state of humiliation (often at the hands of others). I see less and less of this in the newer generations though so that’s good.

    There actually is NOT a long list of notable modern accomplishments coming out of Bangladesh. Can someone name one?

    Of course not – however, if you’ve read your history then you’ll know that Dhaka was one of the richest cities in the world (being one of the jewels of the Mughals when India was producing like 30% of the world’s GDP). That’s why the British started their colonial project there. The British were amazed at how rich that area was.

    So they already had their day under the sun, now it’s time for others…que sera, sera.

    Singapore as a shining example of how to handle a sizeable Muslim minority

    I visited Singapore once – very nice place with beautiful mosques. Glad they have figured out a way to figure out reasonable accommodations for their Muslim minority. Always happy to see people getting along.


  137. @artichoke

    ‘…The difference is, the Muslims aren’t ours. We can send (most of) them back and stop more from coming. What good do they do us?’

    …this is as opposed to all the benefits conferred by all the other groups we admit?

    Don’t get me wrong. My platform is to halt all immigration now, without exception, and deport everyone who’s here illegally. I just don’t bear Muslims any particular animus. Colin Wright’s deportation and exclusion program is going to be impeccably egalitarian.

  138. @Moi

    ‘Forget about Sharia–I worry about folks constantly harping about our Judeo-Xian heritage.’

    The bizarre thing about that crap is that historically, Jews have gotten along a lot better with Muslims than they have with Christians, and theologically, Judaism is a lot closer to Islam than it is to Christianity; Islam really is just very reformed Judaism. It bears about the same relationship to Judaism that Mormonism bears to Christianity. ‘We took your religion and improved it.’

    So if we were going to divide the three religions into two camps, it should be ‘Judeo-Islam’ versus Christianity…except that (a) Christianity acquired a guilty conscience about its historically rampant antisemitism, and (b) Christian societies are top dog at the moment.

    So those who wish to promote and include Jews — while excluding Muslims — dreamed up ‘Judeo-Christian’ as a way of putting over the necessary paradigm. It’s ‘us’ versus ‘them.’

    Well, perhaps it is. Or maybe it isn’t. But there’s absolutely no reason why Judaism should be with the ‘us’ whilst Islam should be with the ‘them’. I don’t particularly wish to go there, but if we’re going to pick one of the faiths as ‘the enemy,’ is it really necessary to point out what Jews have been associated with?

    And you want to fret about Shariah law and the global caliphate? I would laugh — except people who believe this nonsense are a real problem. If there is a division, it is indeed ‘us’ versus ‘them’ — but both Judaism and Islam are the ‘them.’

    I’ll hug both — but please, no ‘Judeo-Christian’ crap. I know what you’re trying to put over.

    • Replies: @artichoke
    , @Talha
    , @artichoke
  139. segundo says:

    This witless twaddle certainly attests to Mr. Unz’s even-handedness and inclusivity.

  140. artichoke says:

    “Islam is Reform Talmudic Judaism”, some similarities in being manipulative, but that’s where similarities end.

    Judaism doesn’t blow up buses or engage in violence generally. What violence there is, is state-of-the-art military stuff with the official power of a state behind it.

    And the religious texts (Talmud vs. Quran) are quite different.

  141. artichoke says:
    @Colin Wright

    What is this about Islam being like Judaism? IN WHAT WAY? But I’ll grant that reform Judaism is far from the real thing; that alone doesn’t make it like Islam.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  142. Talha says:
    @Colin Wright

    The bizarre thing about that crap is that historically, Jews have gotten along a lot better with Muslims than they have with Christians, and theologically, Judaism is a lot closer to Islam than it is to Christianity

    Excellent points. Many Jews of today (usually Zionists with an agenda) would like to cover up the historical record, but it is quite clear. Jews generally got along much better under Islamic rule than Christendom. Mark Cohen did the most thorough analysis of the phenomenon:

    Historian Bernard Lewis also concluded the same.

    That’s not forgetting the multiple times Jews recorded themselves cheering on (and sometimes helping) Muslims as they rolled back Christian empires or kingdoms.

    And of course on the theological side there’s this:
    “Thus, if one is walking close to a house of idol worship, such as a church, one should distance himself at least four Amot from the entrance to this place, for it is well-known that Christian churches are considered houses of idol worship as they believe in another deity besides for Hashem…this is because Muslims are not considered idol-worshippers. Based on this, mosques are not considered actual houses of idol worship and one may enter them according to the letter of the law.”

    I like your style, bro.


    • Replies: @Talha
  143. Talha says:

    This is not to say Muslim scholars think it’s a great idea to enter other peoples’ houses of worship – they don’t. It is generally considered a very disliked thing to do without some necessity. I was simply adding onto what Colin was saying about how many people would like to pull a fast one on people as if Judaism and Christianity have been BFF since old school times. The improvements in the relationship has been rel recent and not without certain notable – ahem – hiccups within living memory.

    • Replies: @Talha
  144. anonymous[739] • Disclaimer says:

    The reality is that the worst Lib Leftist, Cult Marxist Jews like this *@&@# ARNOLD ISAACS, or Obama’s University of Chicago promoter David Adelrod are on the same side as invading Islamists on all things that matter.

    American Jews and American Muslims both voted over 80% + for both Obama and Hillary Clinton.

    Jews and Muslims vote the same way in the USA and the United Kingdom. Occasionally some Muslim immigrant will start doing some talk about promoting a more balanced US foreign policy in the Israeli vs Palestinian conflict – but that’s about it.

    Jews and Muslims are on the same anti White team and this alliance is best represented by the sham marriage between New York City mayor designate Anthony the texting pervert Weiner and Clinton’s Saud Sunni Islamist wife Huma Abedin

    This alliance between Arab and other Muslims and Jews against White European Americans and White Europeans is nothing new.

    Arab Muslim Moors invaded and occupied Spain for….

    700 Years!

    The Jews were resented and hated by regular Spanish people for basically taking the Muslim Moor side, serving as Muslim tax collectors, selling White girls in to sexual slavery to Muslim buyers in the Middle East, the Ottoman Empire in Turkey etc.

    And Spain might have had some legitimate reasons for expelling the Jews or implementing the Spanish Inquisition in 1492

  145. Anon[449] • Disclaimer says:

    Muzz got you beat by several hundred years. They been hating since 700 ad or there about

    • Replies: @Moi
  146. Anon[449] • Disclaimer says:

    So Israel is the cause of muslims killing 2 million in Biafra , 2 million in South Sudan and Darfur , half a million in Papua , 70 thousand in Cyprus and Kurdistan , 40 thousand in Western Sahara , 2 million Armenian Christians( before Israel existed) and daily suicude bombings in Afghanistan,Iraq, Thailand, as well as constant terror attacks daily against European countries that are against Israel themselves and bend over backwards to suicidally accommodate Muslims ?????

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  147. Anonymous [AKA "Hands off my Goat"] says:

    I suggest [[[square braces]]] for muslim apologists.

    • Agree: artichoke
  148. Excuse me, but the double standard for bigotry already originated in Muslim majority countries where they have already gotten rid of all Jews and most Christians. Their religion is not a religion of tolerance or religion of peace. In fact, it’s not even a religion. It is a violent sect with a history of conquering oriented violence beginning with its origin of the seventh century. Please spare us your colossally naive opinions about “islamaphobia”.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  149. Talha says:

    LOL! My, my, my – the one-comment-wonders are coming out of the woodworks for this one. Wonder if they are all sharing the same cheat sheet…or the same cubicle.

  150. @artichoke

    ‘What is this about Islam being like Judaism? IN WHAT WAY? But I’ll grant that reform Judaism is far from the real thing; that alone doesn’t make it like Islam.’

    Try reading the Quran. You’ll find you’re reading ‘tales from the Old Testament.’

    It’s tidied up Judaism, made consistent and practical, with Jesus (!) and Mohammed added to the list of prophets.

  151. @Anon

    ‘So Israel is the cause of muslims killing 2 million in Biafra…’

    Muslims make up twenty percent of humanity. It’s predictable that they would be the perpetrators of twenty percent of its massacres. We can compose similar lists for Christians, Buddhists, and animists.

  152. @FactsPlease

    ‘Excuse me, but the double standard for bigotry already originated in Muslim majority countries where they have already gotten rid of all Jews and most Christians.’

    Lol. The religion that has done best at expelling/exterminating non-coreligionists is Christianity — hands down. No Christian society has tolerated a significant non-Christian population for more than a few centuries. Most Muslim societies tolerated Christian and Jewish minorities continuously since the foundation of Islam.

    Jews, of course, never really had a chance to strut their stuff on the ol’ expulsion front — but Israel’s made up for lost time.

    You see, ultimately, neither Christianity nor Judaism contain anything even encouraging toleration. Islam mandates toleration (if not equality). Read the Quran — all of it.

    It’ll be good for you, and it’s quite short.

    • Replies: @FactsPlease
    , @artichoke
  153. jhan says:

    Islam implies Shariah and that goes against every secular constitution.
    A Muslim woman should not marry a non-Muslim man: that is discrimination.
    Just like the commandment to not take friends among infidels.
    Jihad is a Phobia for everything not Muslim.
    Stop your lies. There are no ‘versions of Islam’.
    There is one Quran, one Hadith, unalterable, forever evil.
    That is because Mohammad was an epileptic psychopathic murderer and child abuser.
    Not exactly a great role model, more like the anti-Christ actually.
    So go stick your insidious whining attempts at victim-hood where the sun don’t shine!
    Stop being Muslim
    It is not that hard.
    It is not race.
    Just quit being evil.

  154. Wally says:

    “It is much closer to a mystical imperialist ideology like Nazism.”

    Say what? LOL

  155. @Colin Wright

    Hey genius, thanks for the “history lesson” and your recommendation that I waste my time reading the Koran. Lets look at the contemporary landscape:

    1.7 million Arabs live in Israel representing 20.7% of the country’s population. The majority of these identify themselves as Arab or Palestinian by nationality and Israeli by citizenship. Show me a similar example in an Arab dominate population country.

    In fact, Israeli Jews are not even allowed in the following countries: Syria, Iran, Iraq, Yemen, Libya, Algeria, Bangladesh, Brunei, Kuwait, Lebanon, Malaysia, Oman, Pakistan, Sudan, Saudi Arabia and
    United Arab Emirates.

    In the 44 Muslim majority countries around the world, why are Christian and Jewish populations on the decline? Because they are actively being persecuted and harassed and are subjected to structural discrimination:

    – 70%, or thirty-one out of forty-four Muslim majority countries have Very High or High government restrictions on religion.

    – 48%, or twenty-one out of forty-four Muslim majority countries have Very High or High social hostilities due to religion.

    – After accounting for overlap between the two categories, 81%, or thirty-six of the forty-four Muslim majority countries, currently maintain either significant social hostilities or government restrictions on religion. Of all groups, the Christian community is the most significantly impacted religious minority community as it is the second largest religious grouping in thirty-one of these thirty-six countries.

    Since you are recommending books to read, you should read “The Strange Death of Europe” by Douglas Murray whose fact-based inquiry will show how Western countries have bent over backward to accommodate “refugees” who bring with them “the religion of peace” and then fail to integrate into these countries and do not bring a net benefit (Tax collection minus benefit absorption) to any country in Europe.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Colin Wright
  156. Talha says:

    Lets look at the contemporary landscape

    Well that’s the problem. Colin is obviously looking at the situation from a holistic perspective with medieval history in mind and not just that the world popped into being in the 1700s when Christian Europe started becoming more tolerant. By that time, paganism had been mostly eradicated from the continent* and they had bleed each other silly from the Thirty Years War and were ready to cry uncle. I believe the Seven Years War was the first continent-wide conflict in a very long time that did not have a religious aspect to it.

    And also pre-Israel where there were significant numbers of Jews scattered throughout the Muslim world:
    “A century ago when the British invaded the country then known as Mesopotamia, one third of Baghdad’s 200,000 strong population was Jewish. Today in the city just five Jewish people remain.”

    Israeli Jews are not even allowed in the following countries

    Good for them, Israel has no diplomatic ties to most of the Muslim world and both are in a mutual hostile posture – so all this is normal procedure when nations are in a semi state of war. If you have proof that Jews of French, German or US background can’t travel to these nations, please present it.

    Colin was also pretty clear that he is not for more immigration into the West (so bringing up Murray is irrelevant) and that non-Muslims have never been fully equal in Muslim lands.

    As far as the current state of hostility and drain of Christians out of the Middle East:
    1) Have you seen the ME? Things weren’t so bad before invasions and wars ripped relatively stable countries apart. That’s kind of what happens when countries come crashing down – in the aftermath of the dissolution of Yugoslavia, Catholic Croats and Orthodox Serbs went war-crime-postal on each other’s populations.
    2) Everyone knows where the hostility is being bred, nobody wants to openly talk about it because they are our allies and buy billions of dollars of arms and munitions:


    *You can read about this in brief here:

    • Replies: @FactsPlease
  157. @FactsPlease

    ‘Hey genius…’

    Well, that tells me to stop reading.

    What is it with defenders of Israel? Why do they always feel obliged to abuse their interlocutor?

    Is it that these are just the kind of folks that are drawn to Israel in the first place?

    Maybe it’s that deep down inside, you know you have no rational case — so verbal abuse is your only recourse?

    • Agree: Talha
    • Replies: @FactsPlease
  158. Haaretz reported in 2003 “that the Israeli Minister of tourism Benny Elon, who supported deportation of Palestinians to Jordan and denying Israeli Arabs the vote, was in the US to rally the Christian right against the US backed “road map to peace” said: “It’s clear that Islam is on the way to disappearing. What we are now seeing across the Muslim world is not a powerful surge of faith but the dying embers of Islam. How will it disappear? Very simply. Within a few years a Christian crusade against Islam will be launched, which will be the major event of this millennium.”

    So there is a new war in store for American cannon fodder. Get with the program like the Seymour Buhtzes and line up for your heavenly reward before you lose out.

  159. Moi says:

    Jews by about 2k years.

  160. @Talha

    Thank you for the information and your insights into this discussion. It is encouraging that Saudi Arabia is moving in a positive direction away from Salafism. Some of what you were saying to me assumes that I have religious point of view and perhaps the Judaism and Christianity is somehow being superior to Islam. The fact of the matter is that I am anti-religious and would rather see the entire planet be expunged of religiosity, if possible. Since we both know that that is a pipe dream, I at least want to take my shots at the religion that is the most problematic at the moment and we all know that that is Islam. Unfortunately, the last three decades of the rise of some of Salafism will not be surgically removed from the faithful very easily. And, I agree 100% that Western colonialism and interventionism has given rise to alot of the problems that we see in the Muslim world. In my opinion, the only glimmer of hope is coming from people like Ayan Hirsch Aki and Majjid Nawaz and his Quilliam Institute bent on Islamic reform.

    • Replies: @RobinG
    , @Talha
  161. @Colin Wright

    Yes, I must apologize for my sarcastic remarks which were uncalled for and which did not invite a meaningful dialogue. By the way, I’m not a defender of Israel nor am I defender of any religious sect at all. I’m an ardent defender of rational thinking which apparently has very little overlap with religiosity.

    You are a smart guy. But, you yourself must be keenly aware that the Islamic religion is severely flawed in the 21st-century context. I won’t bother you with a long list of all the ways that this religion of peace is repressive to its adherents. To me the most frightening thing about it is that pew poll after pew poll indicate exactly how hateful the religion of peace is towards people who are not practicing it.

  162. artichoke says:
    @Colin Wright

    “Jews, of course, never really had a chance to strut their stuff on the ol’ expulsion front — but Israel’s made up for lost time.”

    Yeah we want our homeland back, and from that relative little sliver of land, we should be more pro-active at the expelling bit. By the time we’ve succeeded in removing the (mostly) Jordanians, we’ll still not hold a candle to what the Muslims have done on the expulsion front.

    You have a large fraction of the world’s surface, and you begrudge us a tiny sliver that’s historically ours. Bastards.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  163. artichoke says:
    @Colin Wright

    Jews were on the North American continent, part of the population of the colonies, at the time of independence. We were slave traders (of African slaves to North America and Caribbean islands) but surely that was only a small percentage of the Jews. Hence, perhaps, “Judeo-Christian”. That was our population.

    Muslims weren’t here, but they were the Barbary pirates that Jefferson and the Marines had to defeat. They were taking Americans as slaves, as well as interrupting shipping. That was not our population, and we would have preferred that they didn’t exist in the world.

    See, there’s quite a difference in our history. Is all to be forgotten and we all just say kumbaya now? No, I don’t think so. Muslims have a place, and it’s far from here.

  164. RobinG says:

    “…. the religion that is the most problematic at the moment and we all know that that is Islam. ”

    No, that is not what “we all” know. Most certainly, it was Christians and Jews that collaborated in making the abomination that is Israel. Not to mention the Xtian and Jew wars for oil, land, water, and spite. Here in this thread, ‘artichoke’ demonstrates the sinister nature of the Talmudic brand of religiosity.

  165. @artichoke

    ‘Yeah we want our homeland back…’

    I take it you fantasize that those who identify as Jews today are actually descended from those inhabitants of Palestine who practised Judaism there from 2500 years ago to about 1100 years ago.

    Actually, the descendants of those Jews are still around. Today, they’re called ‘Palestinians.’

    Not only is Zionism vicious, it’s also fallacious.

    • Agree: Talha
  166. Talha says:

    the religion that is the most problematic at the moment and we all know that that is Islam.

    Like RobinG stated, the Muslim world is not Disneyland, but the piles of bodies in the world have mostly come from us. We have disproportionately been at the receiving end of generous donations of bombs, missiles and other unwanted material from the West. Many Muslim cities are in ruins and hundreds of thousands are dead. The vast majority of this chaos was unwarranted. The only invasion that had any sort of possible legitimacy was that of Afghanistan. And all because nincompoops like this guy sold you guys on the greatest adventure of all time with guaranteed awesome results:

    So, no – Muslims have not been the most problematic on the issue of international violence as of recent. But you already seem to recognize that is a major part of the problem.

    Now as far as certain very real social issues like; forcing women to marry against their will, unwarranted attacks on religious minorities, etc. and a host of other maladies – guilty as charged. We need to get our stuff together and work on these pathologies – we have no one to blame but ourselves.

    Ayan Hirsch Aki and Majjid Nawaz and his Quilliam Institute bent on Islamic reform.

    Ayan is an apostate in the pockets of the Zionists:

    The problem most non-Muslims have in understanding the issue is that we already have a reformation going on; it is called Salafism. Westerners have forgotten how bloody their Reformation was and assume only cuddly things come out when you open the floodgates of radically altering and reinterpreting a religious tradition. History gives us no confidence in taking this position. Furthermore, one sees that the bloodiest chapters in European history were well after the secularism project was in full swing. Instead of religion, Europeans found other reasons to kill each other in large numbers – and how – setting world records that have yet to be broken.

    So, the offer being handed to us seems rather silly. We are being asked to lose out in the next world for what? Can anyone guarantee the Muslim world will be better off if we just become a bunch of secularists? Why wouldn’t we follow the Western history of having even more violent episodes? The secularists have often been the most violent people in our lands.

    Let’s take a failing country like Pakistan as an example – it’ll completely rip itself apart, it has no reason for Punjabis and Sindhis and Balochis to be together other than a common Islamic heritage. Which one of them will get the nukes? Or should they split them proportionately?

    Maajid has very little traction because his platform makes no sense. I get his anti-terrorism stance, which is good – being a traditional orthodox Muslim (who gets his cues on doctrine from qualified scholars) I’m all for that, but then he basically wants to strip down Islam to the point where it is indistinguishable from any other religion. Why would we want that? We are actually positioned exactly where we want to be:

    You said you are against religion in general. Thus it is great that we are on the top of your list of bothersome religions. In fact, it would be an indictment of our tradition if we were acceptable to people like yourself – no offense, but your worldview is literally diametrically opposing us. We don’t care to be accepted, we want to offer an alternative. And people who are checking out of post-modernity and its value system see us as the most prominent alternative. The Salafi-Wahhabis tend to get in the way unfortunately, but as Prof. David Cook [Rice Univ.] – an expert on extremist Muslim movements – mentioned, most converts are going to the Sufis.

    I met a White convert recently online. He left the comfort of the West went to the Sahel Desert to study Islam at the hands of the traditional scholars there. I asked him; how did you get past the 24/7 propaganda against Islam? He said, it was actually the anti-Islam propaganda that made him curious to check it out for himself…I guess no publicity is bad publicity.


  167. @fnn

    You realize of course that 3/4 of American Jews vote Democrat and want more Muslims in the US. Apparently White Americans have not been abusing the Jews sufficiently, so they want more Muslims to pogram them to keep their victim status.

  168. Karl says:

    172 Talha > Ayan is an apostate

    incitement to murder, right there.

    • Replies: @Talha
  169. @Talha

    I continue to be so very impressed by the calm and cool way that you discard attacks against your religion and the dispassionate way that you accept truths about the shortcomings of some of your co-religionists. Truly inspiring for this atheist.

    • Replies: @Talha
  170. Talha says:

    No – just a simple declaration of facts:
    “a person who forsakes his religion, cause, party, etc.”

    Please do not put words in my mouth, I have never, ever called for vigilante killings of apostates – ever. Especially in non-Muslim lands where it is obviously against the law. Any Muslim who breaks that law for “muh fatwa” should be prosecuted and punished.


    • Replies: @Karl
  171. Talha says:
    @Cloak And Dagger

    Hi C&D,

    Any good I have in my character is due to God having accepted the efforts and prayers of my parents and spiritual guides. Any faults are purely my own.

    that you accept truths about the shortcomings of some of your co-religionists

    There is no shame in this if it is the truth – we must hold ourselves to higher standards…
    “O you who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even though it be against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, be he rich or poor, Allah is a Better Protector to both (than you). So follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest you avoid justice. And if you distort your witness or refuse to give it, verily, Allah is Ever Well­-acquainted with what you do.” (4:135)

    “O you who believe! Be persistently standing firm for Allah, witnesses in justice, and do not let the hatred of a people prevent you from being just. Be just! That is nearer to righteousness. And fear Allah – indeed, Allah is Acquainted with what you do.” (5:8)

    My teachers have taught me that just because we are Muslims, we do not get a free pass:
    “Beware of the supplication of the oppressed, even if he is an unbeliever, for there is no barrier between it and Allah.” – reported in Musnad of Imam Ahmad (ra)


  172. RobinG says:

    “Like RobinG stated, the Muslim world is not Disneyland… ”

    I did not state that. and actually, the Muslim world is Disneyland. Magical horses fly from city to city by night. A helpful spider seals the entrance to a cave where heroes sleep safely for a hundred years. War elephants shy from the house of God. An army of birds attack with stones. Plus all the usual, (Noah and the ark, Jonah and the whale, etc., etc.). Goofy and Micky and the 7 Dwarves would be right at home.

    • Replies: @Talha
  173. Talha says:

    Ah yes, the belief in miracles and that God controls every atom of the universe to bend at His will at every moment – we are poised to pick up the stragglers that still believe in miracles as well. Angels, demons…


  174. @Talha

    Hey, I want to thank you for a very thorough reply to my remarks and, due to the limited time I have, I just want to say I appreciate all your reasoned point of view.

    Parting thought: if spirituality is what you seek, and that might mean a closer relationship with the divine, why not approach the divine directly and not have the relationship mediated by a 1400-year-old or a 2000-year-old or a 3000-year-old religion?


  175. Talha says:

    I want to thank you for a very thorough reply to my remarks

    Most welcome – I am more indebted to you for taking the time to read them.

    why not approach the divine directly and not have the relationship mediated by a 1400-year-old or a 2000-year-old or a 3000-year-old religion?

    This is an excellent question. One can certainly try to approach the Divine directly, but the question is how does one know whether one’s experience is; accurate, faulty, etc.? Is one simply coming up with one’s own religion? What about the ego – where is its proper place in the equation and is it clouding one’s experience? Furthermore, if one has already determined that there is a Divine and that one wants to approach It, one must ask if the Divine Itself has not given guidelines pertaining to the task – what if it asks that humans approach It in a certain manner?

    Then one goes about the market of the various religious traditions and sees what they have on offer…

    For us – and again, I speak from a traditional orthodox and Sufi perspective – we have a spiritual lineage that traces itself back; in a chain of human heart through human heart back to the Prophet (pbuh) and then through the Angel Gabriel (as) – who was his teacher – back to the Divine.

    This is a sample chain (not mine, since I’m from the Naqshbandi order) of one of the prominent Sufi scholars of our era, Shaykh Muhammad Yaquoubi, showing that the guide learned at the hands of a guide who learned at the hands of a guide, etc. back to the source:

    “Say (Muhammad): If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your faults, and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.” (3:31)

    I cannot speak for other religions, but ours translates to “submission” for a reason; you either trust that you know best how to live life and determine your own purpose or that you are in need of guidance to attain to the singular purpose for which you exist – to know God.


    • Replies: @artichoke
  176. Anonymous [AKA "P0rkChops"] says:

    No Israel, no problems with Muslims…SERIOUSLY?

    Tell that to the one and a half million Christian Armenians slaughtered by the Turks around one hundred years ago. Ever since Muhammad arrived Islam has been at war with non-believers. Within 100 years of his death two thirds of Christian lands were seized by violent conquest – all before Israel existed.

  177. artichoke says:

    Roman Catholocism (one Pope after another) have said you can’t go directly to God or to Jesus Christ, but must have the intercession of one of their priests. That’s a submission that isn’t exactly the same as yours but may not effectively be much different — or do you think it is different?

    • Replies: @Talha
  178. Ace says:

    Check. But for those retarded Christians and their childish mythology human beings live lives of breathtaking rationality.

  179. Ace says:
    @Colin Wright

    There were only about 100 Pilgrims in 1620. What threat did they pose to anyone? Sheesh.

  180. Karl says:

    176 Talha > I have never, ever called for vigilante killings of apostates

    so you prefer that apostates be killed by properly credentialed assemblages of Muslim lawful authorities?

    • Replies: @Talha
  181. Ace says:

    Speak for yourself.

    • Replies: @Moi
  182. Ace says:
    @mark green

    An excellent post. I do see the pro-Israel propaganda but not the anti-Muslim narrative you mention. In fact, media people would rather set their hair on fire than suggest that Muslims are not just one of the brightest jewels in our diverse firmament of immigrant wonderfulness. They’re “Americans” by golly and that’s the end of the discussion right there.

    McCain’s response years back was classic orthodox avoidance of the mere mention of possible problems with Muslims. A woman began to speak of problems with Islam and he cut her off with a couple of emphatic “No, ma’am! ” objections. John did NOT like that at all.

    • Replies: @Talha
  183. Talha says:

    Well, I personally prefer the opinion that they simply be left alone if they aren’t denigrating the religion or trying to get others to apostate. Or exile if they are.

    But if a Muslim country is going to operate according to the opinion that apostasy is a capital offense, then – yes – the procedure needs to follow proper public judicial process.

    No vigilantism!


  184. Talha says:

    That is a point of contention between us and Catholics (and other faiths). Submission is directly to God without intermediaries; we pray, supplicate, etc. directly to God – without going through any prophets, angels, saints, etc.

    Though we sometimes do something called ‘tawassul’ which is supplicating to God by invoking another – which goes something like:
    “O Allah, I ask you by your love and honor that you have for your messengers…”

    Which is still directly imploring God, but seeking His favor by mentioning something dear to Him.


    • Replies: @Anon
  185. Talha says:

    A woman began to speak of problems with Islam

    Not exactly, she basically started off saying something about Obama being an Arab and thus untrustworthy. I don’t think she mentioned Islam once.


    • Replies: @Ace
  186. Ace says:

    That was sloppy. I stand corrected. Thanks. I’m sure it never crossed the woman’s mind that “Arab” is virtually synonymous with “Muslim” and that Muslim terror and subversion are the scourge of the Western world.

    • Replies: @Talha
  187. Moi says:

    I wuz 🙁

    • Replies: @Ace
  188. Ace says:

    And then who is this “we” of whom you speak, Kimo Sabe? 🙂

    • Replies: @Moi
  189. Talha says:

    Yeah man – totally agree – those guys are seriously scary! I think it is a good lesson to us not to destabilize the governments in the ME that help keep these guys from crawling out of the woodwork and going chop-happy on people.


  190. Moi says:

    The silent majority.

  191. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:

    That’s a Protestant (probably specifically Puritan) myth– we pray to God both directly and indirectly through intercession. Anyone who maintains otherwise has not seriously thought about the “Our Father”.

    What only a priest can do is to offer Mass.

    • Replies: @Talha
  192. Talha says:

    Thanks for clarifications.

    indirectly through intercession.

    Is that how I described tawassul? Is it as described here:
    Also, when one uses Tawassul in supplication, one does not ask and seek from other than Allah Almighty. Only the high position, status and rank of the person through whom Wasila is carried out is used as intercession. In other words, the servant is saying: “O Allah! This certain Prophet or servant of yours is very close to you. I do not possess any good deeds, but I have love for the pious. O Allah! Pardon me and forgive my sins due to this love and connection I have with this pious servant of yours”.

    In which case, I can’t disagree.

    What do you mean indirectly? Because certain pagan communities claim to worship their many deities as a means of worshiping the One.

    Sincerely curious…


    • Replies: @Anon
  193. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:

    Something like that. We address the servants of God so they will address Him on our behalf, so basically similar to Pardon me and forgive my sins due to this love and connection I have with this pious servant of yours. The most common intercessory prayer is the “Hail Mary”:

    Hail Mary,
    Full of Grace,
    The Lord is with thee.
    Blessed art thou among women,
    and blessed is the fruit
    of thy womb, Jesus.
    Holy Mary,
    Mother of God,
    pray for us sinners now,
    and at the hour of our death.

    We ask the blessed Virgin Mary to pray for us, considering her vastly greater merits than ours.

    What do you mean indirectly? Because certain pagan communities claim to worship their many deities as a means of worshiping the One.

    Big no here. If I ever give that impression, it’s my fault.

    In the words of the Council of Trent,

    the saints who reign together with Christ offer up their own prayers to God for men. It is good and useful suppliantly to invoke them, and to have recourse to their prayers, aid, and help for obtaining benefits from God, through His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, Who alone is our Redeemer and Saviour. Those persons think impiously who deny that the Saints, who enjoy eternal happiness in heaven, are to be invoked; or who assert either that they do not pray for men, or that the invocation of them to pray for each of us is idolatry, or that it is repugnant to the word of God, and is opposed to the honour of the one Mediator of God and men, Jesus Christ (Sess. XXV).

    I found that in the Catholic Encyclopedia under “Intercession”, which has a good discussion on this topic and is more accurate than I’m likely to be.

    • Replies: @Talha
  194. @cecil

    Who is this guy, and why is he so anti-White??

    He is a JEW. That should be everything you need to know – about the root of all gross, Christ-slandering lies, deceit, virulent, murderous anti-White racist hatred – and mind-numbingly deep, vast Talmudic moral hypocrisy.

    “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you are like whitewashed graves, which outwardly indeed appear beautiful, but within are full of dead mens’ bones and of every unclean thing” – Matthew 23:27

  195. Talha says:

    Thank you for the clarifications, that helped.

    One follow up question, what does this mean:

    the saints who reign together with Christ

    Thanks again for taking the time to answer. I like letting other traditions speak for themselves rather than assume I clearly understand what they are saying.


    • Replies: @Disordered
  196. Z-man says:
    @Them Guys

    Judeo Christian, a term probably coined by Bolsheviks at CCNY back in the 1930’s. A POX on them. Another oxymoron, like Christian Zionists. Duh…dopes.

  197. artichoke says:
    @Them Guys

    Nonsense. At the founding of the country and before that, there were Jews and Christians here. More Christians, but also Jews. We know some slave traders were Jews, for example, but there were many other Jews here too. So Judeo-Christian (or reverse the words if you like), Jews and Christians.

    There were no Muslims. Muslims were Barbary pirates who took free Americans as slaves. We needed our Marines to defeat them. It’s NOT Judeo-Christian-Muslim because Muslims are not a part of our culture. Jews and Christians are.

    Jews and Christians can get along, granted there are some problems, but there are problems among different types of Christians too. But Muslims have a mission to dominate and overcome any other religious group. “Talha” seems like a nice and thoughtful guy, but the fact is that we cannot allow his religion to grow strong here, because it puts at risk everyone else. It must be suppressed. It’s not a matter of theological debate, but of practical reality and history.

  198. @Talha

    The saints are not co-kings with Christ, but as children of God they are part of his inheritance.
    Thus they are more like demigods in a way, perhaps even less in the sense that they were holy humans and their miracles were due to God’s grace flowing in them, not any divine powers of their own. Your faith simply has less intercession, and probably accords to martyrs and clerics (and maybe some rulers) the position we give to saints (which come from all of the above as well as any other class of people really), and you label it as Allah acting through them as vessels. Same difference.

    You are very well learned, or at least you write well. I wish there was more of you and less of the bad kind. I was about to angrily rebuke this dumb editorial by pointing out the fact that the white and/or Christian population in America is NOT exactly double that of Muslims in America, therefore that (Qutbist) Muslims have been half as deadly as (zealot) Christians while being a sliver of the American population LOGICALLY invites Islamophobic feelings. There simply seem to be more religious killers in Islam than in Christendom on average today; and on top of it most are imported, from a different race and speaking a non-European tongue.

    Now, I won’t express any Islamophobia harshly, reading your comments – however, I must ask, WHY NO REFORMATION YET? For example, Catholicism went through major bloodshed, from the French Revolution (spurred on by Freemasons – atheists commenting here should know, btw, only a cult replaces another one) to the “Rerum Novarum” encyclical where the Pope grudgingly accepted to coexist with democracy. Won’t the Sufis likewise ever take over their own faith and clear away the zealotry, clean up the Prophet’s peaceful message (if any)? Sure, I understand many secular Arab leaders could have been more welcomed by the West, and all its imperialist strategies no doubt left a bad taste – the current Syrian debacle shows this. But, the fact that a strongman dynasty like Assad’s is needed to hold political Islam in check kind of proves my point. Not to mention, the West has showered a lot of resources to help along change in Muslim lands – although not without its own interests (oil), but then again even the changes spurred on by (for example) the Saudi crown have been slow, and again with the monarchy’s vested interest in keeping above other Muslim powers and wealthy.

    At any rate, until you guys have it figured out, why not some travel restrictions for us to avoid the mess? It can be retributed, I wouldn’t care. I’d rather leave you guys alone to figure yourselves out – I am a stranger to a lot from that part of the world, and unlike former president W, I won’t pretend to know better. Exemptions for said restrictions could be made for reformists and/or friendly parties – then again, isn’t that what we thought we did before? In short, you can see our position is complex, and cannot be waved away easy with cries of racism or Islamophobia.

  199. Anonymous [AKA "H.E.H."] says:

    “With that on his record, is it likely the nominee would have been confirmed, or nominated in the first place, to head the State Department?”

    As someone I dislike once said, “I have a dream….”

  200. jsolbakken says: • Website
    @Colin Wright

    Jews and Muslims hate Christ and Christians , so, what’s the surprise when some small part of their hate blows back on them.

    And it seems that the irony of lumping blacks, a racial identity, in with Jews and Muslims, who are defined by their beliefs and not their race, escapes the average imbecile these days. In America most blacks are still Christians, and not Jewish or Muslim. So, what’s really going on here?

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