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In 2006, when I first began researching deportations, George W. Bush was president and quietly building a deportation machine in the Department of Homeland Security. Outside of small activist circles, few Americans knew that deportations had been rising since 1996 due to legislation signed by President Bill Clinton. Nor could anyone then have imagined that the next President would be a Democrat, the son of a Kenyan immigrant, and would make Bush look like a piker when it came to record-high deportations. Nor, for that matter, would anyone have dreamed that deportation would become a — possibly the — signature issue of the 2016 presidential campaign.

And yet, all of this and more has come to pass in a blistering season of demagoguery, nativism, and outright racism. As again would have been unimaginable a mere decade ago, Republican front-runners Donald Trump and Ted Cruz have both promised to deport every last one of the estimated 11 million undocumented migrants in the United States, the whole lot of them, while as a bonus banning Muslims from the country. Trump gave his particular proposals a special twist by labeling Mexicans coming across the border as “rapists,” and immigrants more generally as “snakes.”

On the issue of deportations, the Republican presidential hopefuls differ in only one tiny way: Trump claims he will allow the “really good” immigrants to return, while Cruz wants to get rid of every last undocumented immigrant permanently.

To put all this in perspective, here’s the crucial thing you need to understand: with such “proposals,” we have been plunged into a grim fantasyland. You can be guaranteed that neither of these men has spent a serious moment considering what it might really mean to deport those 11 million actual human beings. Behind such a program there can be no real plan, because it would prove both unaffordable and unworkable (leaving aside its utter inhumanity). Undoubtedly, neither Trump nor Cruz cares about the details of all this, since the point is to arouse deep fears of loss and visceral betrayal in the white working class voters they want to attract. But it’s worth taking their proposals seriously enough to ask a relatively straightforward question: Is it feasible to deport 11 million people?

Deporter-in-Chiefs?

Any plan to deport all undocumented migrants would involve an inconceivably massive expansion of the current deportation program, which since 1996 has already experienced significant growth. The highest number of people ever deported from the United States in a given year is 237,941. That was the number of “interior removals” reported by the Department of Homeland Security’s Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) in 2009. A removal, by the way, is a deportation that involves a court process, while an interior removal is a deportation involving a person who is arrested inside the United States and is not a recent border-crosser.

Keep in mind that those 237,941 undocumented immigrants expelled from the country represented a far higher number of deportations than had ever previously been experienced. Before 1995, there were never more than 50,000 total removals (including people caught crossing the border). Only in 2003 were figures for interior and border removals reported separately, at which time there were 30,000 interior removals. A concerted effort in the years that followed would translate into a seven-fold increase in the number of interior removals during the Bush presidency.

When President Obama took office in 2009, he topped the Bush numbers, overseeing record deportations and keeping interior removals steadily above 200,000 until 2012. Then those numbers began to decline, dropping to a still hefty 69,478 interior removals in 2015. For his early deportation record, Obama earned the title of “deporter-in-chief” from immigration activists, as well as the ire of the Latino community. Perhaps due to pressure from that community, he has in recent years rolled back deportations, in addition to issuing an executive order that grants temporary authorization to stay and work in the United States to immigrants who came here as children. He also issued another executive order that would grant the same protections to their parents, although it is still held up in the courts.

Now, for the future: the promise to deport all 11 million undocumented migrants in, assumedly, two four-year presidential terms would mean the deportation of 1,375,000 people annually, or six times that all-time high of 237,000. In other words, Donald Trump or Ted Cruz would have to almost match Bush’s seven-fold increase in deportations on a truly monumental, essentially inconceivable scale. The more realistic question in the grim world of deportations would be: Could one of them even get back to the 237,000-a-year figure? It’s far from clear that any president could actually restore such record-high deportation rates today (forget the promise of millions).

As it happens, ramping up deportations again would require cooperation from local criminal law enforcement, which is unlikely. In reality, local police departments have been moving away from such cooperation over the past few years, in part due to criticism that such programs encourage racial profiling while diminishing trust between communities and the local police.

The dramatic increase in deportations under President Bush relied heavily on increased cooperation between local police and ICE, due to real limitations on the ways in which immigration laws can be enforced. Whereas local police officers are empowered to patrol the streets and arrest people suspected of committing crimes, immigration law enforcement agents are not authorized to pull people off the streets simply because they suspect they might be undocumented. An important reason for this: there is no way you can figure out a person’s immigration status simply by looking at them.

Only Customs and Border Patrol (CBP) agents are authorized to rely on “Mexican appearance” when deciding whom to interrogate and they can only operate up to 100 miles from the border. Interior immigration enforcement is mostly carried out by Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents with the help of local police officers who can indeed inquire about someone’s immigration status, but only after such a person has been stopped on reasonable suspicion of committing a crime.

There are currently about 5,000 ICE agents in the country. Their capacity, with limited cooperation from local law enforcement, seems at the moment to be about 70,000 deportations a year, as evidenced by 2015 numbers. To get those deportations back above 200,000 would involve gargantuan and expensive efforts and a restoration of the frayed relationship between ICE and local police departments.

Home and Workplace Raids

How, then, are 5,000 ICE agents, or even 15,000 — the number Donald Trump wants — going to deport more than a million people annually? In reality, there is no way that those numbers would be enough to arrest and expel the nearly 4,000 people a day, or 1,460,000 people a year that Ted Cruz implies he would reach in his presidency.

It may seem like 5,000 agents should be capable of arresting at least one person each a day and so meet those goals. But the process is simple only in a Trumpian fantasy world. In the real world, locating and then arresting the undocumented is anything but a straightforward process. After all, ICE agents can’t go around interrogating people to find out if they are undocumented and then sweep them off the streets. They can, however, arrest people in their homes — if they have a warrant.

Once an investigation is completed and such a warrant has been issued, an ICE raid on the home of a suspected undocumented migrant usually involves about a dozen agents working through the National Fugitive Operations Program that has come under harsh criticism for its remarkable inefficiency. To have such a home raid described is to begin to understand why such raids tend to work out so poorly.

In February 2010, Maximo, a Dominican citizen who lived in Puerto Rico and experienced just such a raid, described the process to me. He shared an apartment in San Juan with two other men, a Venezuelan and a Puerto Rican. Early one morning, they heard loud banging on the door. Maximo tried to sleep through it, but it only got louder. Finally, he got up. Before he could answer the door, however, the ICE agents decided to break it down and he found himself surrounded by several of them, guns drawn, demanding to see all of the occupants of the apartment. The three men were then ordered to sit on the floor. Finally, Maximo was given his clothes and allowed to get dressed.

When asked for identification, he gave them his Dominican passport. Was he, they then asked, in the country illegally? He admitted that he indeed was, which led to his arrest and dispatch to an immigration detention center. There, he signed a voluntary departure order and two days later was deported to Santo Domingo. In other words, that day’s work for at least a dozen officers led to the deportation of a single Dominican as his housemates were legal permanent residents. This is typical of the kinds of “successes” that ICE agents have.

Among other things, the next President could revisit the worksite enforcement strategies implemented during the Bush years to find undocumented workers. Such worksite raids, however, have proven even less effective and efficient than home raids.

Consider the 2008 Postville raid in Iowa, at the time the largest of its kind ever. Start with the fact that it took almost a year and a half of investigation and planning to pull off. In December 2006, federal agents began to look into a worksite enforcement operation in Postville, a town with 2,273 inhabitants, 968 of whom worked at Agriprocessors, a kosher slaughterhouse and meat processing plant. On Monday, May 12, 2008, the plan became a reality as 900 agents descended on the town. Cooperation among several federal and local agencies was necessary for this to happen. In all, 389 immigrant workers were arrested, though only half of them were eventually deported. In other words, ICE spent a year and five months working on a case that required almost 1,000 agents on the ground and eventually resulted in fewer than 300 deportations.

So let’s put this simply: there is no quick and easy way to deport millions of people from the United States, in part because we are a nation that values individual rights and requires at least some semblance of a process before a person is uprooted from his or her home or workplace. It is not within the purview of the executive branch to topple existing laws and judicial processes in order to carry out the mass removal of a significant segment of the population.

In sum, President Obama has done about as much damage as is presently possible to undocumented migrants and their families within these legal and judicial constraints. Trump and Cruz’s claims that they will do significantly more are baseless — unless the American system were to be changed in fundamental ways (and even then, achieving their goals would prove unlikely in the extreme).

Walls and Other Fantasies

Add to all of this an even greater and more literal fantasy edifice: Donald Trump’s wall. That future 80-foot competitor to the Great Wall of China is slated to cover the 2,000-mile-long southern border, sport all the latest in surveillance technology, and (as The Donald regularly reassures audiences at his rallies) be paid for by the Mexicans. As it happens, Mexican President Enrique Peña Nieto, who recently compared Trump’s language to Hitler’s,disagrees. He’s made it abundantly clear that he would never comply with such a demand, while the previous Mexican president, also citing Hitler, has simply termed the very idea “stupid.” Felipe Calderón, Peña Nieto’s predecessor, said the Mexican people won’t “pay any single cent for such a stupid wall!”

In Trump’s far-fetched proposal lurks a crucial irony of our moment: Mexicans are no longer emigrating in large numbers to the United States. Over the past decade, more Mexicans have returned from the U.S. than headed illegally for it. Undocumented border crossings from Mexico have, in fact, been falling for the last 15 years, in part thanks to a sharp decline in the fertility rate in that country and the consequent lack of demographic pressure for people to leave.

And don’t forget that the wall would be a staggering infrastructure project. It would, for instance, require 10% of all the cement produced in the United States in a year. And then there’s the issue of the price. It is estimated that just fencing in the full 2,000 mile border would cost up to $25 billion, or a quarter of what the federal government spends on infrastructure annually. An 80-foot, high-tech wall would cost far more. And let’s not forget that infrastructure in the U.S. is falling apart: highways are crumbling and mass transit systems are in desperate need of repair and modernization. Imagine the federal government, spurned by the Mexicans, spending tens of billions of dollars on such a wall when Amtrak, for example, is barely scraping by with an annual budget of $1.6 billion, while other developed countries are leaving us in the dust with 200-mile-per-hour bullet trains.

All this means that the proposals to “build a wall” and “deport them all” that have animated this election season are quite fantastical. And then there’s the irony that such plans come from a political party that has long criticized government spending and waste. On wasting money, we’re talking textbook cases here.

In short, taken on their own “merits,” the numbers don’t add up. The costs would be tremendous. The disruption to American life in which the undocumented play a little noticed but crucial role would be far more unsettling than any of Donald Trump’s or Ted Cruz’s admirers imagine, and no wall or deportation program will protect them from the actual forces decimating their lives (and life spans). In fact, looked at piece by piece, in a purely practical way, the present deportation debate, which has proven extremely effective in raising the temperature of the political moment, is simply the essence of the demagogue.

Should Donald Trump or Ted Cruz win the presidency, they are guaranteed to make life hell for millions of undocumented human beings living in and working extremely hard in this country, and their plans would fail dismally — but that failure would undoubtedly prove to be a horror all its own.

Tanya Golash-Boza is an associate professor of sociology at the University of California, Merced. She is the author of five books, her most recent beingDeported: Immigrant Policing, Disposable Labor, and Global Capitalism(New York University Press), which explains mass deportation in the context of the global economic crisis. In addition, she has written on contemporary issues for Al Jazeera , the Boston Review , the Nation , Counterpunch , theHouston Chronicle , and the Chronicle of Higher Education . She tweets as @tanyaboza.

(Republished from TomDispatch by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: Ideology • Tags: Donald Trump, Immigration 
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  1. atheo says: • Website

    Employer sanctions is the one enforcement tool.

    Everything else fails. That’s why it’s the law. And it worked very well until the law stopped being enforced.

    You have to stop the employers.

    If the fines fail, why not use asset forfeiture? Three strikes and you’re out. New management might hire Americans.

  2. peterike says:

    Should Donald Trump or Ted Cruz win the presidency, they are guaranteed to make life hell for millions of undocumented human beings living in and working extremely hard in this country,

    Boo hoo hoo.

    Well, they’re making life hell for the millions of citizens of this country, so hey, payback is a bitch.

    • Agree: BB753
    • Replies: @pyrrhus
    , @woodNfish
  3. Marcus says:

    That “deportation machine” was apparently purchased at Wal-Mart or Dollar General.

  4. @atheo

    THANK YOU. That’s like the third rail of immigration politics, I’ve been saying that for years. Why it never ever gets a mention, I have no idea.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    , @utu
    , @SFG
  5. wrd9 says:

    What an unbelievably asinine article, pure pro-illegal immigration BS with a huge amount of lies.

    Operation Wetback, in its first year in 1954, deported over 1,078.000 illegals. With only 750 Border Patrol agents. The maximum number they ever had was 1,692.

    It’s totally possible to get rid of the parasitic illegal scum that infests the US. The US spends $100 billion on illegals and their spawn, an amount that can be easily switched over to deportation funding. And the Wall can easily be built by just heavily taxing remittances to Mexico and Latin America. It would be justice to make the illegals pay for the Wall. Requiring E-Verify and requiring that parents be citizens in order for their children to get welfare benefits would choke off jobs and money that they need to support themselves. Putting a bounty on illegal heads would be very popular among Americans who are extremely sick and tired of having their country turned into a 3rd world cesspool. It’s high time to suspend civil rights for illegals and deport their azzes either back to their home country or a neutral Latin American country that is considered safe. The illegals will complain, however, as those safe Latin American countries don’t provide generous welfare benefits or healthcare. Tough crap. They can complain to their govt about income inequality. Maybe they can take a page out of the French Revolution and guillotine the aristocracy.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  6. pyrrhus says:
    @peterike

    Yes, what a shame that a bunch of people who entered the US in violation of the law, 75% of whom are on welfare at the expense of American citizens, would be inconvenienced.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  7. joe webb says:

    i have a a family member who runs a construction company in the SF Bay Area. Almost all of his employees are mexicans because the firm does jobs that are basically pretty low skill and that is just how it is in construction. (Mexicans have destroyed working class white jobs…plus degradation of everything else, socially, politically, etc. You folks have brought nothing but calamity to us.)

    This family person is well disposed to mexicans but says, yeah, they are stupid, and have to be closely supervised.

    In fact the mestizo IQ average is 90. These mexicans have ruined wages for White Americans, never mind their crime and welfare abuse. Half of mexicans are on welfare and their crime is about 2 to 3 times greater than white crime.

    We are going to expel all the mexicans, sooner or later, citizenship or not. It is that simple. They are helping to destroy White America and civilization. It is all cronyism and no principle. Corruption is not even recognized as such by them, like all third world people.

    The only way back to a comfortable, honest, and friendly US is thru the removal of mexicans, and severe resubordination of blacks, if not complete resegregation. There is nothing Good for Whites in having mexicans here. But mexicans want to be here because Whites have built a decent civilization, etc. and they want to be in it. The worst day in the US is better than the best day in Mexico. I have heard that from mexican sources.

    Go in peace, or go with repression. That is your choice. You want a good life? build it yourself, somewhere else. It will be so nice when you are gone.

    Joe Webb

    • Agree: Ace
    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    , @macilrae
    , @Clyde
    , @iv
  8. If you don’t support a sealed border or deportation of those who run across, you advocate open borders, which will eventually flood the nation with billions of impoverished foreigners. This will further crowd inner cities, overwhelm care for the poor, and drive down wages even more.

    The 11 million illegal foreigners figure touted has remained unchanged for decades, proving it’s just a low ball fantasy. It’s more like 20-50 million, and there is no way to measure it. At the very least, once someone has been arrested for any reason and ID’d as an illegal, it costs little to deport them, assuming that our justice system is freed from ridiculous procedures imposed to deter deportations. If only the Border Patrol were once again allowed to pick them up from county jails. Requiring E-verify is a way to encourage some to self-deport.

    But the real solution no one discusses is to put the US Army back on the border. Protecting our southern border was our Army’s primary mission until 1940. Details here: http://www.g2mil.com/border.htm

  9. UNZ is now Huffington Post?

    • Agree: Realist
    • Replies: @Andie Freud
  10. No other developed country has anywhere near as many illegal immigrants as the US. There is no way the average Dane, Austrian, Australian or Canadian would put up with the crap that American citizens have to in regard to illegal immigration. Sure all western countries have problems with refugees begging on their borders and legal immigrants breaching their visa terms, but tolerating the presence of millions of illegal economic migrants who have sneaked into the country and not even passed through customs is a uniquely American phenomena.

    No wonder the US is awash with illegal drugs.

    • Replies: @helena
    , @Avery
  11. Yevardian says:

    [Tanya Maria Golash-Boza, assistant professor of sociology and American studies at the University of Kansas, is the author of “Immigration Nation?: Raids, Detentions and Deportations in Post-9/11 America & “Race and Racisms”: A Critical Approach.]

    I wonder if Ron Unz puts this category of columnist here (And “Ask a Mexican”) as some kind of litmus-test, reminder of the ‘current-year’ or red-cape for his site’s readership.

    At least the Aztecs streaming in are nominal Christians, hard-working and mostly demure, which you can’t say for Europe.

    • Replies: @WG Dupree
  12. Whatever it takes. Send the law breakers back where they came from. All these Mexicans and traitorous Americans crying about us enforcing our laws make me sick. Mexico has very strict immigration laws. Ask any Guatemalan. Why should Mexico get to enforce its laws but we can’t?

    • Replies: @guest
  13. Ace says:

    *** while Cruz wants to get rid of every last undocumented immigrant permanently. ***

    You say that like it’s a bad thing.

    It’s “illegal immigrant” in case you’re unfamiliar with the term, BTW.

  14. Stogumber says:

    In anti-immigrant circles, these problems of deportation and wall-building have been debated extensively for years. It has been argued that Operation Wetback worked well, that there are real examples for “self-deportation” (leaving the country when the incentives are gone), that Israel has built an effective wall years ago etc.
    Ms. Golash-Boza doesn’t answer to any of these arguments How can a person become an associated professor of sociology if she hasn’t learned to reflect (and possibly refute) counterarguments? Isn’t this unprofessional behavior?

  15. helena says:
    @unpc downunder

    “is a uniquely American phenomena.”

    No it isn’t. The Narrative in Britain is now ‘Nothing can stop immigration and it will continue for decades. It is the future’.

    The power of groups of people who go around waving unpopular emblems is tiny compared to the power of the EU enterprise; they will be crushed. And then the Narrative will go after East Europe and Australia. This thing is waaay bigger than can be resisted by ordinary people with no power in Institutions. The Trump phenomenon demonstrates how impossible it now is for sensible political discourse to take place. What has happened is a fait accomplis. The world has changed. European civilization is over and Europeans better learn to mix or live as a diaspora.

    Honestly, I blame this catastrophe as much on the resisters as on the enforcers because the reason Europeans have lost is due to:
    1. talking about being a colour instead of a bona fide ethnicity
    2. harking back to ridiculous emblems
    3. assuming the badge of ‘right’ and ‘conservative’ – high trust is a liberal value not an authoritarian value.

    European societies were the first successful liberal societies and those who set out to destroy them deliberately labelled the opposition as ‘white far right’, knowing that the under-educated majority would steer clear of anything so labelled. And Europeans fell for it hook line and sinker. The battle is lost; it was not one of Reason but of Propaganda.

  16. @Colinjames

    Why it never ever gets a mention, I have no idea.

    Cesar Chavez supported employer penalties– until Hispanic “activists” told him to stop.

    So a tough union leader ends up defending dishonest employers who cheat his members.

    This is what Tanya is all about.

  17. Ron likes triggering his readers. 🙂

    • Replies: @Sam Haysom
  18. All illegal immigrants should be deported; it should never be controversial.
    Also their children; ‘birthright citizenship’ for illegals (or tourists) is ridiculous.

    • Replies: @guest
  19. bomag says:

    So, what we have here is a Leftist telling us that a government program will be too expensive and ineffective…

  20. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @pyrrhus

    Yes, what a shame that a bunch of people who entered the US in violation of the law, 75% of whom are on welfare at the expense of American citizens, would be inconvenienced

    Go into a courthouse in your area and see the names on the docket. Walk down the hall and see public defenders talking to client-defendants through an interpreter.

  21. The immigrant solution is simple:

    1. Change US foreign policy of “creating dictatorships” in the 3-rd world (CIA + IMF/worldbank) and do truly fair trade. This will create affluent nations.

    2. Have the FED create money and give it to immigrants. They will spend it into the US economy and this will boost businesses (JM Keynes multiplier)

    3. Build the Trump wall on the Mexican border to resolve 20 -25 % unemployment, comprising a lot of gates to be opened. Also this will boost the economy!

    A lot of opportunities lost when locking people up and sending back, like Barry Obama did!

  22. That goulash was rancid.

  23. Sam J. says:

    I know how to deport every single illegal alien in 3 months. First tell them they have 6 weeks of work left to save cash to deport themselves. Second. Tell all employers that after that six weeks is up the RICO act will be used to confiscate all tools, trucks, houses, etc. that were gained in the employment of illegal aliens and mean it. Third bribe several African countries for a few billion dollars to take the “migrants”, Like Uganda, the Democratic Republic of the Congo or the Central African Republic. All illegal aliens captured will be immediately sent to the African states. I bet after two or three plane loads all illegal immigration would stop immediately. The advertising of how evil we are, and how to avoid the evil, would be broadcast 24 hours a day. Think of all the free publicity we would get of those poor Mexicans in tent cities in Uganda. You wouldn’t even need a fence. They may even demand a fence so they could know exactly where the border is and not go over it.

    I’ve just solved the whole problem for you for max about 6 or 7 billion a year.

  24. berserker says:

    Tanya Golash-Boza is an associate professor of sociology at the University of California, Merced.

    – Another well-fed professor with a guaranteed job for life lecturing people on illegal immigration.

  25. @joe webb

    The end game will be most likely be genocide, but it is up in the air as to which group will initiate and which group will prevail. Think this is extreme? Take a look at the ethnic cleansing already at work in So Cal and other major US cities. A far grimmer reality is only a small step from what we currently experience. President Trump or President whoever and a wall or mass deportations are probably the best path to avoiding the ugliest of the doom to come. Then again, our new AI robot overlords may make questions like these moot.

    • Replies: @joe webb
  26. Avery says:
    @unpc downunder

    {There is no way the average Dane, Austrian….}

    Are you serious ?
    Europe is being flooded by Muslims.
    Europeans have surrendered themselves to Islam and are committing slow motion suicide.
    As the other poster wrote: {At least the Aztecs streaming in are nominal Christians, hard-working and mostly demure, which you can’t say for Europe.}

    • Replies: @granesperanzablanco
  27. So the gist of it is, it’s just too difficult and expensive to repel or remove the invaders … it is time to surrender.

  28. macilrae says:
    @joe webb

    Mexicans have destroyed working class white jobs…plus degradation of everything else, socially, politically, etc. You folks have brought nothing but calamity to us.

    Bejesus, such ignorance! As we all know, but many loudly try to deny, the ‘destruction’ of working class white jobs is down to those working class whites who no longer deign to do them – and often have become so fat and lethargic that they can’t even tie their own shoelaces. America led the way in this but UK, Canada, France and even Germany are not far behind.

    And if Donald Trump is the best candidate for next President (and he actually may be) what does that tell you about social degradation eh?

    I expect you also become enraged at the mention of the Chinese and the way they are stealing our jobs? Thought so!

    • Replies: @Rich
    , @Jus' Sayin'...
  29. Dr. X says:

    Piffle, idiotic piffle. From a professor of sociology with a hyphenated surname in California, I’m not surprised. As a trained academic myself — but trained in logic, not left wing activism — I shall respond:

    1) Mass deportations have been conducted in the past, successfully. Eisenhower’s “Operation Wetback” is the paradigm.

    2) For all the left-wingers sobbing over the cruelty over deportations, I don’t seem to recall any left-wing outrage when Bill Clinton and his Attorney General Janet Reno had a shrieking, terrified five-year old Elian Gonzales snatched by an INS SWAT team at the point of a loaded H&K MP5 submachine gun and deported back to the communist dictatorship of Cuba.

    Of course, lefties have always believed that Communist Cuba is far better than the U.S., so…

    3) Those who contend that a border wall is impractical seem to conveniently ignore the fact that the Jews of Israel have done a pretty good job at building one. Indeed, left-wingers who think that the U.S. should allow all manner of Third Worlders to flood our country seem to think that it’s perfectly acceptable for Israel to be a mono-ethnic state with an official religion — for the Jews, by the Jews, and of the Jews. Well, why shouldn’t the same principles apply to the U.S.?

    Sorry, Professor Hyphen. You’re a fool and a hypocrite. Why don’t you move to Mexico and suck off the teat of the Mexican government instead of the U.S. taxpayer?

  30. TG says:

    Given that the border has been held open for so long, it may indeed be hard to regain control. But borders work, when the law is enforced.

    For over two centuries illegal immigration into the United States was demographically negligible, because the laws were enforced (“Operation wetback”, anyone?). Today places like Japan and Israel have near zero illegal immigration – because they enforce their laws.

    It should be noted that the super-rich have neither moral nor practical problems preventing trespassers from entering their private country clubs or walled estates.

    It is not necessary that all the illegal immigrants currently in the United States be deported. It is necessary that we try, and make life increasingly hard for those still remaining, to deter others. Historically, that works.

  31. utu says:
    @Colinjames

    “Why it never ever gets a mention, I have no idea.”

    Because it is the only method that works?

  32. SFG says:
    @Colinjames

    Because the GOP is run by donors, who (a) want more immigration to drive down wages and (b) are particularly averse to anything that would hurt business.

    The Dems, of course, want more immigration so they keep winning.

  33. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    They’ve been using the eleven million illegals number for over ten-twelve years now as though nothing has happened since then. For every illegal entrant that gets turned back how many get through? The human smugglers are working every day to bring in more people. If the author is such an expert then why does she try to pass off the eleven-million number on us? Because she’s a big time professor and author I assume that she can’t be that dumb therefore I conclude that she’s deliberately lying to the readers. She and all the rest are part of the lie machine.
    This country already has three hundred thirty million people. It could easily grow to five, six, seven hundred million inhabitants. What then? That would transform this country into an overpopulated anthill that couldn’t possibly provide employment for those who want it. The impact on the environment would be horrendous. Saying it’s ok for illegals to break our laws just encourages more people considering making the move to go ahead and do it. We have to have a visible deterrent to dissuade them from doing so.
    Illegals are breaking the law knowingly. Do we want people who consider American law to be just toilet paper? What sort of country are we leaving behind? Do we even have a country? The author is dishonest, reaching for excuses for why nothing can be done, it costs too much, it’s too hard and so on, when she’s really in sympathy with the lawbreakers. Instead let’s ask how to do it and when can we start.

  34. @atheo

    I totally agree, and the absence of effective employer sanctions shows us that neither political party has any actual interest in controlling illegal immigration. Immigration that drives down wages benefits business owners after all…

  35. @Anatoly Karlin

    Paleocons I give you your supposed allies. Lay down with Putinist hacks wake up with Comintern fleas.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  36. Sean says:

    I am not aware that the definition of a demagogue is he proposes doing the harder thing or that a country is primarily supposed to be an economic unit, administered to maximize global utility. But if this is so the US ought to build a immigration fast track, pathway/freeway instead of a wall, let anyone who wants in, and give the millions upon millions of young Guatemalans Ecuadorians, ect, arriving each year preferential treatment over privileged palefaces. US citizens would be taxed to pay for it.

  37. Rurik says:

    the author of this pig vomit

    says it all

    it’s no mystery or wonder why a mannish ogress would want to keep the gates open to the slightest shred of hope for romance, even if it were no more than offering blow jobs in the men’s bathroom at the refugee center. At least it’d be something.

    Every single nation on earth is allowed and expected to have borders that protect the integrity of their nation’s laws and customs and peoples from harm or invasion. Mexico will not just deport you if you come in illegally, they’ll jail you for two years first, and then deport you. Try it again and its a ten year stretch, then deportation.

    But because powerful Jews and Chamber of Commerce scumfucks demand all white countries be de-Nazified and reduced to slave labor wages, respectively, these warthog sows jump on the bandwagon and agitate for a chance at ‘true love’, even if it does amount to little more than a grunt and a wipe from an undiscriminating Arab or Mexican or Haitian immigrant.

    So there really are a lot of assorted agenda-driven, widely diverse motivations of the people who demand we keep our borders open and the immigrants coming. Some of them do it out of blind tribal hatred for the white (Nazi) race, and some of them do it out of ‘love’

  38. wow says:

    It’s amazing the author thinks deportation means to physically pick them up and heave them out…..there are many ways to deport…..and it all starts with the money train.

  39. Do we need illegals and other foreign workers? The answer is a resounding no! We do not need to import tens of millions — no one knows the numbers but the official estimate that floats around is well over ten million — of unskilled, uneducated, unassimillable foreigners of below average intelligence ans above average propensities to commit crime and join the welfare lines when the current real unemployment rate among the native-born unskilled labor pool is running above twenty-five percent. The imports currently depress wages and prevent union building. Eventually they will add to the drain on resources created by our current underclass, which the illegals’ children will join in disproportionate numbers.

    We do not need H1B visas when there are 1.5 native-born STEM workers for every available STEM position. H1B visas area rich source of income for TaTa Industries and other foreign participants in this form of indentured servitude. They provide indentured servants for plutocrats like Zuckerberg. They keep wages low. They prevent union forming. They discourage native-born young people from entering STEM professions when they see native-born workers in their 40s forced to train their H1B replacements and abandon their STEM careers in mid-life.

    Are Trump’s policies reasonable? Back in 1956 Eisenhower was able to empty Texas of illegal aliens within a year. Before Eisenhower acted illegal braceiros had been a major problem. All it takes is the will to enforce the immigration laws and severely punish over-stayers, illegals, illegal workers, and those who hire them. Self-deportation will take care of most illegals after that. Long, unpleasant and certain prison sentences will take care of most of the remainder. A wall around the USA’s southern border modeled on the one Israel has used on its southern border to stop illegal Arab and African immigrants will work. Israel has proved it. The cost – about $10 billion to wall the entire border if we use the proven Israeli technology — can be financed with a surtax on the remittances Mexican and other migrants send home. These payments of about $25 billion per year are Mexico’s largest source of GDP after petroleum sales. I’d go on but why bother. There’s no arguing with SJWs like Englehardt G-B(!!??), etc. when they are in full mindless virtue signalling mode.

    I’d conclude by saying that the last person I’d take advice from on any issue is a third-rate sociology “professor” with a hyphenated name, from a backwater campus, with as one-sided a grasp of the issues as this one. About nine months ago Trump publicly announced that foreign immigrants had turned Brussels into a disaster area that would inevitably result in terrorists acts. He was ruthlessly derided by folks like Englehardt, Golash-Boza (is that name for real??) and others of their ilk. Trump has since then been warning the fate that awaits the USA if we do not act now to restore control of our borders, eject illegal aliens, establish reasonable rules for naturalization and citizenship, and return to making the economic well-being of US citizens one of the primary goals of US policy. He is once again being ruthlessly derided by folks like Englehardt, Golash-Boza (!!??) and others of their ilk. I know who I believe.

    • Replies: @Clyde
  40. Rich says:
    @macilrae

    You must be another office drone who is completely unaware of the number of American carpenters, laborers, cooks, waiters and kitchen workers who have been priced out of jobs by the virtual slave wages paid to illegal aliens. Illegal aliens, at least in NY Sate, are able to receive food stamps, section 8 housing, free clothing and free medical care, so they can afford to work for peanuts, while native-born Americans are left to fend for themselves.
    But keep it up, you think that eventually they won’t start educating the illegals to start taking jobs at slave wages a little further up the scale? I’ve met college educated foreigners who can shuffle papers well enough to take the jobs of American office workers and will happily work for sub-par wages. Either the US repatriates the illegals and secures its border, or it slips from 1st world to 2nd and then, maybe 3rd.

    • Replies: @macilrae
  41. guest says:
    @Mis(ter)Anthrope

    Because Mexico is run by brown people?

    • Replies: @AndrewR
  42. @macilrae

    Immigrants depress wages, lower working conditions and residential quality of life and make union building impossible. LA’s janitorial services industry back in the 1970s was almost entirely African-American until unscrupulous bosses – mostly White – figured out they could out-compete African-American companies with cheap illegal labor that allowed them to avoid all kinds of legally mandated expenses. Now the labor force is essentially 100% Mexican with a very large proportion of illegals. H1B visas are allowing plutocrats like Zuckerberg to destroy the labor market for native-born STEM workers.

    It is not too late to implement policies that force employers to pay wages and provide working conditions that will attract American workers. They will do these jobs if motivated. As currently as I have information, almost the entire potato harvest in Maine has been accomplished by native-born adolescents. And greatly elevated wages and working conditions will actually have a relatively small impact on consumer costs. It’s estimated that an across-the-board doubling of wages in the agricultural sector would produce less than a ten percent increase in cost in the retail market.

  43. guest says:
    @Simon in London

    Ridiculous or not, it’s the law. Amend the Constitution if you want. Or say, “Fine, your kid can stay but you’re leaving. Have someone else look after him or he’s on his own. We’re not going to take responsibility.”

    • Replies: @Simon in London
  44. Wyrd says:

    Hey, Tanya Golash-Boza, what’s your address? I want to be an undocumented resident in your house; it’s my civil right, don’t you know. Stock up your refrigerator with sliced turkey and shredded cheddar to make me feel at home. Oh, and make sure you have the extended Lord Of The Rings trilogy on blu-ray for my viewing pleasure or else you’re a racist.

  45. Gort says:

    Not the main point of the article, but infuriating!

    “It is estimated that just fencing in the full 2,000 mile border would cost up to $25 billion, …”

    $25 billion divided by 2,000 would be $12,500,000 per mile. For fencing! The problem isn’t the wall, it’s the short-list crony-contractors submitting these “estimates” and .gov accepting them as fact, instead of crunching the numbers to protect the taxpayers and telling these clowns to either get a new calculator or fuck off.

    From being charged $5.00 per 16oz. for bottled water shipped to military bases to the $400,000,000.00 ‘bridge to no where’, nobody in DC gives two-shits about wasting our money. Maybe, just maybe, Trump will open the bidding up to companies that don’t know anybody on K Street.

  46. @Unapologetic White Man

    Nah. I think he publishes this nonsense under the “give them enough rope” theory.

  47. KenH says:

    Tonya Golash-Boza is fighting alleged demagoguery by Trump with her own demagoguery, dissembling and defeatism. There have been numerous stories proving that deportations under our mulatto mullah have fallen to record lows especially in his second term since he no longer needs to worry about re-election.
    http://www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2015/jul/20/bob-goodlatte/goodlatte-says-deportations-us-interior-have-falle/

    I just love how her and her ilk, the anti-white, left always say that mass deportations are “inhumane” or “can’t be done” yet they aren’t afraid to think big when it concerns screwing over white people and transferring or outright stealing of our collective wealth. Current mass third world immigration (both legal and illegal) amounts to the largest displacement and ethnic cleansing of white people in world history and Ms. Boza is just fine with that. We certainly won’t be treated to sentimental musings about whites being hard working and model citizens like she claims about third world illegal aliens.

    And not a peep from her about the looming racial conflict, joblessness and high welfare and social costs that result from so many Latinos and other third world racial groups pouring into this country. But she and the anti-white lefties suddenly become chicken littles when a person like Trumps threatens to dismantle their radical agenda and improve the quality of life for real Americans and not immigrant interlopers and their cheerleaders.

    • Replies: @map
  48. @helena

    Nice concern trolling.

    • Replies: @helena
  49. @guest

    “The Law” was made up by the US Supreme Court with no actual legal basis. It does that a lot. It doesn’t take a Constitutional Amendment to reverse SC fantasies like Roe v Wade or Birthright Citizenship.

  50. Agent76 says:

    Dec 18, 2015 Donald Trump – The Establishment Candidate

    While his rise in the polls is attributed to his challenging the establishment and the political status quo, let’s look at the many ways Donald Trump, when it comes to his political positions, represents that very same status quo. From the Fed, to war, to civil liberties, the “anti-establishment” Trump takes no positions not already endorsed by the establishment.

  51. syonredux says:

    And don’t forget that the wall would be a staggering infrastructure project. It would, for instance, require 10% of all the cement produced in the United States in a year. And then there’s the issue of the price. It is estimated that just fencing in the full 2,000 mile border would cost up to $25 billion, or a quarter of what the federal government spends on infrastructure annually.

    Hey, compared to what we’ve spent in Iraq, that’s a bargain:

    The costs of the 2003-2010 Iraq War are often contested, as academics and critics have unearthed many hidden costs not represented in official estimates. The most recent major report on these costs come from Brown University in the form of the Costs of War, which totaled just over $1.1 trillion. The Department of Defense’s direct spending on Iraq totaled at least $757.8 billion, but also highlighting the complementary costs at home, such as interest paid on the funds borrowed to finance the wars.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_cost_of_the_Iraq_War

  52. Clyde says:
    @joe webb

    i have a family member who runs a construction company in the SF Bay Area. Almost all of his employees are Mexicans because the firm does jobs that are basically pretty low skill and that is just how it is in construction. (Mexicans have destroyed working class white jobs)
    This family person is well disposed to Mexicans but says, yeah, they are stupid, and have to be closely supervised. In fact the mestizo IQ average is 90.

    A agree with you in general but let me give you a counter anecdote. The roofing crews where I live all seem to be Central Americans. Little brown guys, legal and illegal ones. I see them put on new roofs quickly and in a disciplined way. Each guy has a job and he does it in coordination with the others in the six man crew. The job can be quite physical when you are removing the old roof. Then you are hauling up and strategically placing the stacks of new tiles or shingles. They do this in the middle of summer too!
    I watched a crew the other day laying roof tiles. They were “cementing” them in with a foam roofing glue I am familiar with. No tile nailing was being done….that’s how it was done a few decades ago.

  53. Biff says:

    I’m just really confused about who is worse – jerk-face Americans or jerk-face non-Americans?

  54. Clyde says:
    @Jus' Sayin'...

    Good summation!

    We do not need H1B visas when there are 1.5 native-born STEM workers for every available STEM position. H1B visas area rich source of income for TaTa Industries and other foreign participants in this form of indentured servitude.

    And those native born STEM workers are not all white by any means. Plenty of Asian STEM graduates born here also get screwed by the H1B flood of foreigners. The Indian/Hindu/foreigner owned H1B body shops are the biggest profiteers in the HIB surge. American STEM workers are left holding the bag (of shite)

    • Replies: @Art
  55. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    You’ve gotta be fucking kidding – Right?

    It’s difficult to believe anyone could actually write and article like this, even less so that Unz would publish it. Nothing more can be said than has already been stated in these comments.

  56. Isn’t Obama’s reputation as the so-called “Deporter in Chief” based on a change in the definition of what is counted as a deportion? Maybe it’s already been pointed out, but under Obama the govt started counting illegals returned to Mexico captured at the border as deportations. Prior to Obama these returns were not included in the numbers. I even saw an INS official acknowledge this fact during a Congressional hearing. Why is Unz publishing this person?

    • Agree: Ozymandias, Clyde
  57. Rurik says:

    Why is Unz publishing this person?

    personally I’m thrilled he’s displaying the ugly dark side of their id for us all to laugh at and ridicule

    how else would we have a chance to properly mock these people?

    why shouldn’t we have some fun?

  58. @helena

    These are a lot of people in Britain working illegally, but these people are overstayers or people who are legally in the country but are breaching their visa terms. I’m not saying that’s acceptable, it certainly isn’t, but nearly all of them have at least passed through customs on the way to the UK.

    In the US, millions of people have literally just walked across the border with no checks at all. Building a border fence isn’t primarily an immigration issue (since these people aren’t legal immigrants) it’s a basic law and order issue.

    The sooner the Americans get their wall, the sooner they can join the rest of us in the debate about undesirable legal immigration and visa abuse. Don’t feed the arguments of the US progressives who claim that what’s going on in the US is normal.

    • Replies: @helena
  59. Art says:
    @Clyde

    “American STEM workers are left holding the bag (of shite)”

    The killer Judaism religion never misses a chance to propagandize its hate.

  60. map says:

    C’mon…

    Is anyone really dumb enough to believe that Barry Obama actually deported anyone? Does anyone really think that these “deportation” numbers are really anything more than bureaucratic or administrative statistics? These are just fabricated because the Latino population keeps getting bigger every year.

  61. map says:

    Frankly, I appreciate Unz including these types of articles. It’s important to monitor the Left.

    • Replies: @Luca RIVERA
  62. Camlost says:

    Why does this writer of this article think that she understands math so much better than a billionaire?

    The most important thing is a tougher stance on immigration to staunch the flow of future illegal immigrants. Deterrence is job #1. If you can’t accomplish that nothing else matters.

  63. map says:
    @KenH

    This is exactly the point. These foreigners are economic and political ringers designed to be used against white people.

  64. hbm says:

    All you have to do is read the byline. Nothing else is necessary.

  65. J1234 says:

    ….they are guaranteed to make life hell for millions of undocumented human beings….

    The correct phrase isn’t “undocumented human beings,” it’s “illegal immigrants” you moron. How can ANYONE be an “undocumented human being?” (Pedro: “How many kids do you have?” Maria: “I don’t know. They’re undocumented.”) That’s an entirely false and conflated category that makes no reference at all to their immigration status, which is entirely what the issue is all about.

    To get those deportations back above 200,000 would involve gargantuan and expensive efforts and a restoration of the frayed relationship between ICE and local police departments.

    Yeah, like liberal college professors really care about how much things cost. So that’s ANOTHER falsehood you’re promoting. Why must arguments from the left always have falsehoods and untruth at their core?

  66. Avery says:
    @Rurik

    Right:

    It says right there at top of unz.com page:

    {A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media}

  67. helena says:
    @Simon in London

    I have no idea what that phrase means.

    I listen to an evangelically liberal talk show broadcaster most mornings and I read these comments most afternoons and I’ve come to the conclusion that each side is as deluded as the other.

    No Western government is going to suddenly start mass movements of settled people back to countries they don’t have homes in anymore. No government is going to start gunning immigrants down. Do the maths – Europeans make up less than 10% of the global population. But at least some of those who are spouting ‘we can save the world’ mantras at the current time are pretty soon going to wake up and realise they should have taken biology seriously when they were at school. Others are just masochists and think Europeans really should be subsumed by the rest of the world.

    Maybe some governments will slow the tide of migration with policies that make migration less attractive but the UK for instance has just raised the living wage to 4 times that in East Europe.

    We are in a world-changing epoch; big population changes. And yes, I stand by what I said, ‘high trust’ is a liberal value and what the opposition should have been doing in the past couple of decades was rallying round campaigns to conserve the liberal value of high trust by restricting the inflow of tribalist, culturally non-liberal, immigrants.

    The biggest mistake as far as I can tell has been all the medical aid to countries that would otherwise have decreased population size. But what’s done is done.

  68. Luca RIVERA says: • Website

    Thank you UNZ for posting a lefty essay. That Ms Golash Boza pens such claptrap is expected. After all, as assistant professor of sociology at University of Kansas, getting tax dollars is her specialty. I wonder how much the government spends on sociology departments a year to produce deconstructionist papers? So, Tanya Golash-Boza, I am a hard working real American, what felony can I commit? Can I get an assistant professor job at a public universty with forged credentials. I would work really hard grading my student’s papers in a timely fashion. I would also work really hard at making them feel like shit because they come from decent middle class American families. Let’s see, can I commit tax evasion (definately not tax evasion: you need to get paid)? Can I run guns down to Mexico? Its hard work, but very rewarding. Can I practice medicine without a license? I would work really hard at it. Can I start a business without a business license? I would work really hard at it. Oh, that is right, I am a privledged nativist ( to the UNZ people: Can you image having the really well paid job of creating ists and isms for the left propoganda machine) who’s only concern should be how quickly can I adapt to every race, religion, creed and social construct foisted upon me by biggoted internationalists who despise anyone upset over the the transformation of their towns into third world Ghettos and social service bureaus into welcome wagons. Well, just like Geronimo, I am going to kick back.

  69. macilrae says:
    @Rich

    You must be another office drone who is completely unaware of the number of American carpenters, laborers, cooks, waiters and kitchen workers who have been priced out of jobs by the virtual slave wages paid to illegal aliens.

    Not to mention those slaves in China who make all the stuff you refuse to buy (on principle I am sure) at Walmart together with a good 80% of advanced consumer manufactured items. Can it be that Western workers have priced themselves out of any realistically sustainable market and now continue to live on borrowed money they are incapable of ever earning?

    Perhaps this is part of an inevitable human cycle and it is now simply just the turn of “those other guys” to enjoy the good life? Of course we may rant and rave against it but I for one don’t see anything that could possibly turn things around for western manual workers.

    Chinese exceptionalism/entitlement will merely replace American exceptionalism/entitlement – for a brief spell, in the tide of time.

    • Replies: @Rich
  70. Cranky says:

    What a f$cking joke.

    America is about to turn into a cornpone dictatorship due to the failure of our f$cking elites, and she thinks we won’t do anything about the flood of illegals that have come to this country?

    Ha. Here is a comment for you, yon well employed chica hanging out in America’s lux educrat system: Figure out how angry working class America is at how the elites of both parties have screwed them, how the R party Chamber of Greed turfed the Tea Party, and how the unions sold out to Wall Street, and shudder for your future.

    If you are lucky, you might just avoid the re-education camps.

    For the cost of two F35 fighters, everyone will be in the system, registered, and either deported or taxed extra for living here.

    The really funny part is so many have volunteered their existence through the executive programs- programs that can easily be turned into deportation orders.

    Effing dumb. Like most of our f$cking elites.

    Trump is the first real candidate who isn’t from the political system, and he won’t be the last.

    Soon we will get the full fascist playbook, with real promises to the masses that have real benefits.

    Look at what Haider said 20 years ago- at least the National Socialists had a real employment policy- and that is the key- real payoffs to the bottom half of society.

    10 million deported- it can happen. And quite a few will flee as fast as possible.

    Convicted of a crime and illegal- your wall building labor camp awaits…then deportation.

    Our elites are clueless f$cks who thinks they know it all, they know nothing.

  71. You can be guaranteed that neither of these men has spent a serious moment considering what it might really mean to deport those 11 million actual human beings. Behind such a program there can be no real plan, because it would prove both unaffordable and unworkable (leaving aside its utter inhumanity).

    There’s a saying that one man’s modus ponens is another man’s modus tollens.

    In this case, the modus ponens would be that since the Holocaust presumably happened, and the Holocaust involved deporting more than 11 million people (if you’re thinking 6 million, that’s just the Jews) with a smaller workforce and worse technology, it is possible to deport 11 million people with America’s larger workforce and better technology.

    Reversed, the modus tollens following from your assertion of the impossibility of deportation is that the Holocaust can’t have happened.

    So, Golash-Boza, are you an implicit Holocaust denier? Or do you wish to withdraw your assertions regarding how mass deportation is so “inconceivable”, “unaffordable”, “unworkable”, “no way”, “fantasyland”, etc, etc, etc? Because the position you’ve staked out in this article has some possibly uncomfortable implications.

  72. johnd [AKA "Ice Man"] says:
    @atheo

    Employer sanctions is the one enforcement tool.

    There’s another one: require landlords to get valid proof of citizenship. If they can’t come up with it, they can’t rent an apartment. If the landlord gets caught, a nice fat fine. Any illegal caught with their home address leading to a property owner gets fined.

    Those two rules coupled, and there wouldn’t be a lot of need for ICE raids. Hispanics would self deport in droves.

    As far as “sanctuary cities,” cut federal funding immediately for any city that tries to keep it going.

    This is not an incredibly difficult problem. This plan bypasses most of the extended, expensive court-related deportation fantasies.

    The author of this piece has classically run out of brilliance, so is shoveling the bullshit. That’s just what supreme neurotics posing as dilettante policy crafters committed to globalism do.

  73. @Avery

    Nominal? The Mexicans in my town yesterday were dragging a cross around for a good Friday parade

    • Replies: @Avery
  74. @Sam Haysom

    What the fuck are you on about now.

    Incidentally, virtually no Communist regime shared the delightfully named Tanya Golash-Boza’s outlook on open borders.

  75. Avery says:
    @granesperanzablanco

    [As the other poster wrote: {At least the Aztecs streaming in are nominal Christians, hard-working and mostly demure, which you can’t say for Europe.}]

    I was pasting what another poster wrote.
    Nevertheless, I agree with you: Mexicans and (Latin American) Hispanics are more Christian than Anglos here in US.

    Given the choice, I’d rather be overrun by Hispanic Christians, instead of Muslims.
    Nothing against Muslims: good people individually.
    But I have no desire to live in Islamistan.
    Here is one reason:

    [***Muslims in East London: Violence, Racism, Bigotry and Hooliganism***]
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMZe5hXodQg

    Something like that cannot and will not happen if my entire state of California becomes Hispanic.

    • Replies: @syonredux
  76. MarkinLA says:

    We can build simple detention/deportation ships. They can hold the deportee until it fills up and is sent on its way. We built the Liberty ships quickly during WWII and a similar program can be done rather easily. A fleet of 20 ships each on the East, West and Gulf coasts can probably deport as many as 60 X 2 X 3000 people a month.

    It would show the world that America is a can-do nation again.

  77. syonredux says:
    @Rurik

    Why is Unz publishing this person?

    personally I’m thrilled he’s displaying the ugly dark side of their id for us all to laugh at and ridicule

    how else would we have a chance to properly mock these people?

    why shouldn’t we have some fun?

    Well, Ron is very much in favor of large scale Mestizo Hispanic immigration.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  78. Instead of sending out checks or direct deposits for govt aid of any kind, send a letter requiring they visit a local govt office with proof of citizenship, and a photo ID.

  79. syonredux says:
    @Avery

    Given the choice, I’d rather be overrun by Hispanic Christians, instead of Muslims.

    Given the choice, I’d rather have the USA stay Anglo European.

    Of course, I’m awfully fond of the Anglo-America that gave the world Benjamin Franklin, the Wright bros, Mark Twain, Thomas Edison, Edward Hopper, Howard Hawks, William James, F Scott Fitzgerald, Edgar Allan Poe, Josiah Willard Gibbs, Robert Goddard, Edwin Hubble, Thomas Hunt Morgan, John Ford, ……

    • Replies: @Avery
  80. @atheo

    The Mexican government can apparently deport tens of millions to the US.

  81. Rurik says:
    @syonredux

    Well, Ron is very much in favor of large scale Mestizo Hispanic immigration

    • Replies: @syonredux
  82. expeedee says:

    It’s not all that difficult to deport 11 million illegal aliens. President Trump does the following:

    1. Appoints 10,000 temporary Federal Judges (former immigration officers, police officers, lawyers, etc.) by executive order to hear cases.

    2. All illegal aliens (including visa overstays) required to register for hearing or face felony and automatic deportation.

    3. Prioritizes cases, first deportation of criminal aliens, then single men/women without families, then finally aliens with families.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    , @Clyde
  83. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says: • Website

    Maybe Americans just wanna bring more brown ho’s to America. Like Jeb Bush.

    Gringos are Bringhos, or Bring-Ho’s.

  84. syonredux says:
    @Rurik

    That was in the context of open borders. Ron’s not that insane.

    On the other hand, listen to Ron sometime talking about how much he enjoys having a Mestizo Hispanic servant class……

    Or, even better, listen to him talking about how “Super-Flynn” will raise the Mestizo Hispanic mean IQ to 100 real soon now…..

    Ron is not reliable on the “national question.” I’ve had many conversations with him on this topic on Steve’s blog. He’s just not concerned about preserving the Anglo-European character of the USA.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  85. I don’t understand why people believe the illegal aliens can’t all be deported. Mexico deported these same people, so it’s clearly possible.

  86. MarkinLA says:
    @expeedee

    1. Appoints 10,000 temporary Federal Judges (former immigration officers, police officers, lawyers, etc.) by executive order to hear cases.

    Get rid of the immigration courts, make it an administrative process. Catch them and detain them. They have two weeks for their friends or relatives to bring their papers in or out they go. If they claim they were born here and don;t have papers, send an expedited request for the birth certificate to that county.

  87. Svigor says:

    Tanya Golash-Boza

    Who?

    • Replies: @Malcolm X-Lax
  88. Svigor says:

    So many Trump Trolls at Unz, one of them wound up with a blog.

  89. @Rurik

    I want to clarify, it’s not that she has a controversial opinion. That’s fine. My complaint is more about the quality of the opinion.

  90. Clyde says:
    @expeedee

    It’s not all that difficult to deport 11 million illegal aliens. President Trump does the following:
    1. Appoints 10,000 temporary Federal Judges (former immigration officers, police officers, lawyers, etc.) by executive order to hear cases.
    2. All illegal aliens (including visa overstays) required to register for hearing or face felony and automatic deportation.
    3. Prioritizes cases, first deportation of criminal aliens, then single men/women without families, then finally aliens with families.

    Do all that and start enforcing e-verify with employer fines and jail time PLUS zero welfare for illegal aliens. And they will start self deporting. At least 60% will self deport if given an 8 week period to get their affairs in order including distress sales of properties and vehicles. They will figure they better get while the getting is good and go home with some money. I would not be against giving each self-deporter a $1000-$3000 bonus for leaving the USA. It’s lot cheaper this way than to run them through the court system, then to physically remove them, sending them home via ship or airplane.
    The real number of illegal aliens is at least 25 million. As millions self-deport you deal with the holdouts the way you lay out.

  91. Avery says:
    @syonredux

    Hypothetical situation:
    Two choices: Muslim (like in Europe) or Hispanic Christian.

    Which would you choose ?

    (that’s what the post meant: not a choice between Anglo and Hispanic)

    • Replies: @syonredux
  92. Rich says:
    @macilrae

    Actually, I never shop at Walmart, but that’s not really the point. China could be stopped cold in about five minutes if tariffs were put in place against nations using “slave labor.” The American manufacturing industry could be revitalized if taxes were imposed on companies like Ford or Carrier who decide to move their plants to low wage countries. The US is a vast, wealthy nation that could easily remain self-reliant on manufacturing, agriculture and energy if not for the greed of our Plutocrats who never have enough. And, of course, those lazy citizens who refuse to mow their own lawns. When I was a kid, grown men supported their families and sent their kids to college working as deli clerks, and that’s not that long ago. Read up on the Law of Diminishing Returns and apply it to labor, that might help you understand what I’m trying to communicate to you.

    • Replies: @macilrae
    , @geokat62
  93. macilrae says:
    @Rich

    Actually, I’m sympathetic. I knew the America of the 1960s – worked in silicon valley – it was a different place and I have been coming there ever since I left and have seen the gradual decline.

    Did the immigrants (illegal and otherwise) cause Americans to have the highest rates of obesity in the world (unless you count Tonga where hugeness is status – just look at the King!): did the immigrants cause the undeniable decline in the general work ethic and education standards? Were they responsible for 9/11; for the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan and for the financial crisis of 2008? Whether these are symptoms of decline or its cause, those who have steered the US through the past three decades (call them neocons or anglo-zionists or what you will) bear the lion’s share of responsibility for its decline. And the American public, who in the 1960s took to the streets over Vietnam, has remained compliant, apathetic and even supportive.

    I am not saying that uncontrolled immigration is beneficial or to be continued – only that it is not a major cause of the current misery which, of course, is Trump’s message.

    When we look for a cause for all our misfortunes, the last person we tend to blame is ourselves – we look instead for a convenient hate-focus.

    • Replies: @Avery
    , @Rich
  94. geokat62 says:
    @Rich

    The American manufacturing industry could be revitalized if taxes were imposed on companies like Ford or Carrier who decide to move their plants to low wage countries.

    You have hit on the crux of the matter. The globalism vs nationalism debate is mainly an economic one. Companies were once considered to be the engines of national economies (“what’s good for GM is good for the US”), but the profit motive transformed them from nationals to multinationals. Once the CEOs on Wall Street realized they could increase the share price of their firms by relocating their plants to China and India, they were no longer thinking in nationalistic terms, or as Americans, they became de facto globalists. This point in time marks the beginning of the end for the American middle class.

    For America to become truly great again, this along with the immigration issue has to be addressed, head on.

  95. Avery says:
    @macilrae

    {who in the 1960s took to the streets over Vietnam,…}

    Because the young men next door were being drafted to be sent to a meat-grinder.
    The elites solved that problem by changing the cannon-fodder to paid volunteers.

    American people, by and large, couldn’t care less what happens in some faraway place, now or in 1960s, as long as they personally are not affected.
    And if paid-volunteers are killed…..well…. “they volunteered, didn’t they?”

    • Replies: @macilrae
  96. Rich says:
    @macilrae

    Illegal immigration kept real wages down and reduced the number of decent paying restaurant jobs and has practically destroyed the once very good paying construction jobs. I am personally acquainted with men who are carpenters and cannot compete with the low wages paid to illegals. An argument can be made that because young people could no longer make decent money, they began to eat more than they should have and became obese and that others lost enough hope to turn many of them to drugs which further destroyed their ambition. Is illegal immigration the only problem facing the US? Of course not, but it is a problem which is easily fixed and would be a boon to young people who can’t find jobs or make enough money to support themselves. If restaurant owners don’t have slave laborers working in their kitchens, and construction companies don’t have low paid carpenters and laborers, they’ll have to pay a better wage, and that alone will help those entering the workforce.

    • Replies: @macilrae
  97. syonredux says:
    @Avery

    Hypothetical situation:
    Two choices: Muslim (like in Europe) or Hispanic Christian.

    Which would you choose ?

    A Hitler vs Stalin type problem.

    A Muslim America vs a Mestizo Hispanic America….

  98. macilrae says:
    @Avery

    I believe you are largely correct on the mentality – and probably also on the incentive for activism: but I think you misread your own countrymen (assuming they are of course) if you assert that there has been no increase in general apathy since then.

    I never took to the streets even though certainly eligible for draft at that time – I was what was then called “An Alien” – but I definitely took to the humans.

  99. tito perdue says: • Website

    To liberate America from the non-white sewage now despoiling its once-beautiful landscape, it is necessary only to end legal protections for illegals, making it possible to kill, rob, or rape these things with entire immunity.
    A fair number will self-deport, I should think.

  100. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:

    Well, I, for one, would like to thank Ms. Boza for the impressive article. I didn’t think that it was physically possible to fit so much bullshit into such a short article. Impressive.

  101. macilrae says:
    @Rich

    The question that arises is what are “real wages”? Are they the wages that people have come to feel they deserve or are they the wages that can keep the USA competitive with its exported manufactured products or can keep companies thriving and growing within the USA: given its present work ethic and culture, where a lot of people no longer want to work and still more do not want to work as hard as their grandparents did?

    The first thing that strikes me when I visit urban China, Taiwan, Korea or even Japan is the energy of the people and their capacity for taking pains to do things thoroughly. You see this less and less in Europe and, I am sorry to say, in the USA too. People have grown lazy.

  102. utu says:

    The tile is correct: Trump seems to be a demagogue. It’s possible that he is not lying because he is just not very articulate and he did not think things through. He may appear as visionary who articulated three important to Americans longings:

    (1) Stop/reduce immigration (illegal/legal)
    (2) Re-industrialize American (create good jobs) by introducing tariffs and better trade deals
    (3) Reduce American military reach (isolationism, not being a policeman of the world)

    However he did not present any evidence so far that he really knows how to go about implementing these ideas. Certainly building a yuge wall is not the solution for (1) though this imagery may appeal to American simpletons and get him votes. In (3) he is full of contradictions. He uses bellicose and belligerent language American simpletons like (bombing shit out of ISIS…) or he talks about de fact stealing Iran’s money.

    • Replies: @joe webb
  103. Rurik says:
    @syonredux

    He’s just not concerned about preserving the Anglo-European character of the USA.

    well, I don’t know so much about the Anglo aspect of it Syon, per se. Once that blood was noble and viral, but today it seems the Anglos are the most pathetic sub-race of Euros that there are.

    Not that I don’t pity them their lamentable position of bankster ground zero, and the consequent ravages of the boyz of Zion holed up in London. It seems they should be a little more worried about preserving the Anglo character of England, as far as I can see.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    , @syonredux
  104. joe webb says:
    @The Alarmist

    right , genocide can be avoided. I keep a Hamlet quote on my computer: “If thou art privy to thy country’s fate, which, happily, foreknowing may avoid, Oh speak!”

    It would be worth knowing how many millions were deported and otherwise moved around Europe in the war.

    Under peacetime circumstances, massive deportation could be accomplished slowly enough to avoid significant bloodshed. It would probably take about ten years for the 50 or so million mexicans to be sent south.

    Europe and muslims is a different story and will probably end up with rivers of blood, per Enoch Powell. But, the longer we wait the worse it gets. Of course, voluntary self-repatriation would happen as well, especially when mexicans, etc. can take their property, and probably a cash incentive as well, possibly with grants to Mexico to integrate the returnees.

    The world has never seen such an Exodus, except of course the immigration of the last 40 or so years, in the US, thanks to Capital, white Liberals, and jews writing the 1965 immigration act as well as writing most of the catechisms of race equality for the college educated..etc.

    Michel Levin, of Why Race Matters, the book, told a group of our WN folks a few years ago that we whites would be fully justified the expelling the Jews for their crimes against us.

    It is either Separation or Blood and economic/political turmoil. Working class whites have all the guns, and the military will be on our side for the most part.

    Joe Webb

  105. Spanky says:
    @atheo

    Employer sanctions would be very effective, however, in addition to civil asset forfeiture (which I am reluctant to endorse under any circumstances, unless those sanctions are aimed only at corporate entities, are carefully limited, with clearly defined sunset provisions), criminal penalites aimed at the corporate HR Director, COO, CEO and Chairman of the Board might have some utility as well.

    But, if you really want to get serious about stopping illegal immigration, as well as encouraging self-deportation amongst those already here, why not consider Trump’s comments about closing overseas military bases and bringing American troops home?

    Consider Honduras for example — when its democratically-elected President called for a living wage… well that didn’t set so well with United Fruit and Chiqta. A coup was quickly organized (using School of the Americas alumni?) and green-lighted by the US State Department (Hillary).

    Removing American troops from Honduras, as well as ending arms sales to the Honduran government, might induce those fleeing that corrupt and despotic regime to return — if they believe they might be able to improve their condition at home because good old Uncle Sam no longer supports the government that murders and oppresses them.

    It’s simple: Massive illegal immigration is a natural result of imperial dominance — economic, political and financial — over their lands and leaders. Remove that and let them settle their political and economic differences between themselves.

  106. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @wrd9

    [Choose a handle and stick to it, or just use Anonymous or Anon. Using multiple handles isn’t allowed here, and will get your comments summarily trashed.]

    European-Americans must continue their glorious traditions. Genocide, slavery , racism, war and oppression of poor people. USA, USA.

  107. joe webb says:
    @utu

    I gotta say U too, you are an idiot. I notice that the most idiotic statements here are usually just thrown out with no argumentation or evidence.

    Your claim that Trump in not articulate is just weird. He is very articulate, but speaks to the street, not to some academize tripe of the commentariat.

    In fact, a Wall is very effective, and very symbolic as well. Keep Out you Turd World turds! Is that clear and articulate enough for you girlie-boy?

    Joe Webb

    • Replies: @utu
  108. syonredux says:
    @Rurik

    well, I don’t know so much about the Anglo aspect of it Syon, per se. Once that blood was noble and viral, but today it seems the Anglos are the most pathetic sub-race of Euros that there are.

    Anglo-European: Anglo as to culture (Shakespeare, Newton, Melville, William James, Edison, etc), European as to race.

    It’s that combination of culture and race that defines Anglo-America.

    Latin America, in contrast, consists of Hispanicized Amerinds and Mestizos.

  109. syonredux says:
    @Rurik

    It seems they should be a little more worried about preserving the Anglo character of England, as far as I can see.

    I’m quite concerned about preserving the Anglo character of the core Anglosphere: the UK, Anglo-America (Anglo-Canada and the USA), Australia, New Zealand

    In the USA, the main threat comes from Mestizo/Amerind Hispanics.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  110. helena says:
    @unpc downunder

    I would have replied sooner but I went to Amsterdam for the day and I don’t have a smart phone.

    “Don’t feed the arguments of the US progressives who claim that what’s going on in the US is normal.”

    No it’s not normal – nothing about civilization rise and fall is ‘normal’ because we don’t really know how it happens. What’s happening is not rational and that’s the strange thing, because this civilisation prides itself on reason.

    But you’re ‘at it’ as well – why call these people progressive? They are regressive. The last thirty years has been like groundhog day. All the rational advances that have been made, 1500 years of progressing towards prosperity and a decent life for all members of society, 700 years of painstakingly pursuing human excellence and social reform – labour and welfare – now has to be explained to incoming cultures that are still pre-Enlightenment in their cultural adherence to traditions such as FGM, hair fetishes etc. Don’t feed the real trolls by conceding with your language that they are progressing anywhere except ‘goodbye European civilisation’. Language is ideology, is civilisation. Change the discourse if you want to make this nightmare go away.

  111. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “You can’t just pack up and ship millions of people across borders”

    So you deny the holocaust?

  112. utu says:
    @joe webb

    When I wrote that yuge wall appeals to American simpletons I did not know you are one of them.

  113. Rurik says:
    @syonredux

    I’m quite concerned about preserving the Anglo character of the core Anglosphere:

    well, that’s fine Syon, but I could care less about that. Good riddance to the (vile, ghastly) queen I say. What could be more pathetic than the ‘peerage’? Really?

    There were gems a plenty in Merrie Olde’s heritage. But no more so than German or Russian or French culture or heritage. I’d prefer to think of preserving Western Civilization, including Homer and Aristotle and De Vinci and Goethe and Dostoevsky and all of it. And I also have a very bad taste in my mouth from the treachery of the Anglo regimes during the last century, starting with the Boer war, the world wars all the way to Tony Blair’s sexed up dossiers.

    May Winston Churchill rot in hell and share a boiling pot with Blair and Cameron and all the other lickspittles of Zion.

    • Replies: @syonredux
  114. syonredux says:
    @Rurik

    well, that’s fine Syon, but I could care less about that. Good riddance to the (vile, ghastly) queen I say. What could be more pathetic than the ‘peerage’? Really?

    Since I’m Anglo, I feel quite differently. I feel that Anglo culture (Shakespeare, Newton, Henry James, William Faulkner, Howard Hawks, etc) is well worth fighting for.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  115. Rurik says:
    @syonredux

    Since I’m Anglo, I feel quite differently. I feel that Anglo culture (Shakespeare, Newton, Henry James, William Faulkner, Howard Hawks, etc) is well worth fighting for.

    well Newton was certainly a giant, and Darwin too. Many, many other. But no more so than Copernicus, or Tesla, or the myriad greats from all over Europe and even the rest of the world, where it has been prudent to borrow from their geniuses whenever possible.

    And being an American, perhaps the first thing we did as a country was to repudiate the British crown. And well we did, and do. It has become a laughingstock of ridicule since I can even remember. Sort of like the Vatican, and that’s how I perceive it. I love the British people just as I love the Catholic people, but I loath the Vatican and the British monarchs as congenital pederasts and the enemies of the people they presume to represent.

    I wish even one British elite held your affection for English culture and the British people, who it seems to me they’re hell bent on destroying and replacing both.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    , @helena
    , @Sam Shama
  116. Is there something wrong with being a demagogue? Surely demagoguery is the essence and purpose of a democracy – to choose leaders based on who flatters the most people rather than who has the largest warband or the noblest bloodline.

  117. syonredux says:
    @Rurik

    And being an American, perhaps the first thing we did as a country was to repudiate the British crown

    We repudiated the Crown, but not Anglo culture.

    well Newton was certainly a giant, and Darwin too. Many, many other. But no more so than Copernicus, or Tesla, or the myriad greats from all over Europe and even the rest of the world, where it has been prudent to borrow from their geniuses whenever possible.

    Sure, science is trans-cultural. That being said, there is an Anglo tradition in science, and I feel a strong attachment to the Anglo cultural stream that gave us Thomas Edison, Darwin, Thomas Hunt Morgan, James Watt, Josiah Willard Gibbs, James Clerk Maxwell, etc

    I love the British people just as I love the Catholic people,

    I reserve my love for the Anglo peoples: Americans, Anglo-Canadians, Australians, Scots, English, etc

  118. Avery says:

    {But no more so than Copernicus, or Tesla}
    {Anglo cultural stream that gave us Thomas Edison,}

    Edison was not even in the same league as Tesla.
    Maybe nobody was.
    Edison was a diligent inventor and a superb businessman.

    But Tesla was a genius.

    The A/C we use today throughout the world, including the Anglo world, was developed/invented by Tesla.
    Edison tried for years, in vein, to force DC on consumers, which would never work in distributing power from a central source throughout the country.
    Tesla also invented/developed the highly efficient fluorescent lighting.
    Too many inventions way ahead of his time to list here.

    Also some of the greatest mathematicians in the world were of German stock.
    I think per capita, other Europeans, e.g. French, English, etc are far behind.

    I personally believe one of the greatest contributions of English speaking peoples (as Churchill called them) was the Magna Carta.

  119. @syonredux

    Thank you for remembering Josiah Willard Gibbs.
    I visited cemetery in New Haven, Connecticut, where he was buried.
    Looking in Wikipedia, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josiah_Willard_Gibbs
    I just learned, that Lee de Forest,
    known for three-electrode vacuum-tube (Audion), sound-on-film recording (Phonofilm),
    was one of Gibbs’ doctoral students, see
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_de_Forest
    I was fascinated by both these great people, while being in the USSR.
    I am still fascinated by them.

  120. syonredux says:
    @Avery

    Edison was not even in the same league as Tesla.
    Maybe nobody was.

    Many people were superior to Tesla: Newton, James Clerk Maxwell, Michael Faraday, Einstein, Gauss, etc

    As for Edison, he owes his high standing in technology largely due to the wide variety of his inventions: phonograph, quadruplex telegraph, the fluoroscope, etc. And one can also add to this list the modern industrial research laboratory.

    In Human Accomplishment, Murray has Edison tied with James Watt in the Technology category:

    [MORE]

    Technology
    Figure Index score
    James Watt 100
    Thomas Edison 100
    Leonardo da Vinci 60
    Christiaan Huygens 51
    Archimedes 51
    Guglielmo Marconi 50
    Vitruvius 43
    John Smeaton 37
    Henry Bessemer 34
    Thomas Newcomen 33
    Charles Babbage 33
    Carl Wilhelm Siemens 32
    John Wilkinson 32
    Benjamin Franklin 32
    Charles Wheatstone 32
    Alfred Nobel 32
    Michael Faraday 31
    Denis Papin 31
    George Stephenson 30
    Samuel Morse 30

  121. syonredux says:
    @Avery

    The A/C we use today throughout the world, including the Anglo world, was developed/invented by Tesla.

    Tesla was hardly alone in the development of alternating current. Other figures include: Charles Steinmetz, Oliver Heaviside, Galileo Ferraris, John Dixon Gibbs, Lucien Gaulard, etc

  122. helena says:
    @Rurik

    “I wish even one British elite held your affection for English culture and the British people, ”

    You are confusing the labels British and Anglo, which is exactly what the Narrative intends. Anything English has been subsumed into something called British which is defined as a smorgesbord of immigration. A recent TV detective had the final line, said to a Somali illegal immigrant by a geordie detective descended from Irish immigrants, ‘ here’s the address to go to to claim asylum, don’t be afraid, NOBODY owns this land’. Follow the ethnicity – the Anglo elite are dismayed at what has happened. But most elites now are not Anglo.

    “British monarchs as congenital pederasts and the enemies of the people”

    I believed that in my distant marxism-infected youth. But a good read of British history taught me how incredibly subtle the system that evolved over 500 years is. Constitutional Monarchy acts as a break on totalitarianism. Don’t feed the Narrative.

    • Agree: Sam Shama
  123. Sam Shama says:
    @Rurik

    I wish even one British elite held your affection for English culture and the British people, who it seems to me they’re hell bent on destroying and replacing both.

    Hello Rurik
    I must say that you are conceding to all the easily misled elements. Although not Anglo by birth, I was raised in the midst of it all – all, that one supposes, is middle class English. Really one cannot take a bludgeon [as I was encouraged to, when I landed in the U.S.] and cheerfully smash all the qualities I consider as marking the best in form, to live a life of some consequence. It wasn’t for instance, just the bluer and the boater followed by subfusc in years later, but really the much deeper, subtler, and enduring consciousness of the guiding principles [ones I may have called ‘God, King, Country and the Hangman’s noose’ elsewhere] which must prevail in order that a civil society do so.

    The Hellenics willed Democracy for a fleeting moment – and we commoners should rue the day when self-indulgently, we assumed ourselves the descendants of Hellenes – while a democratic republic never obtained, nor ’tis likely in our future. For the simple reason that human abilities are not all equal, not even uniformly distributed. It is a daydream that has produced much disillusionment, grief and a skewed consolidation of power to the industrious, and the avaricious, who, unguided by the structure named earlier, most notably the guiding presence of the regent and more practically Her Majesty’s hangman, quite easily manipulate the levers of ‘Democracy!’

    Thus of all the forms of social organisation we have dabbled with [humans at large], it is my contention that none have come closer to the ideal than a popularly revered constitutional monarchy [which at this hour actually needs to exert greater influence].

    I welcome arguments in opposition.

    A further note: the contribution of English, the English [& Scots] and the British [to a much lesser degree], are observably profound and rather elementary to demonstrate.

    P.S. : btw amongst the very, very tiny subset of English greats listed by commentators above, Russell, Hardy, Turing, Penrose, Ruth Lawrence, Lewis Carroll and Ian McDonald were glaring in their absence.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  124. Rurik says:

    “British monarchs as congenital pederasts and the enemies of the people”

    I believed that in my distant marxism-infected youth. But a good read of British history taught me how incredibly subtle the system that evolved over 500 years is. Constitutional Monarchy acts as a break on totalitarianism. Don’t feed the Narrative.

    no offense but your post seems almost schizophrenic.

    in one breath you lament the death (murder) of British society by the immigrants and their apologists, and then you try to defend the fiends who have perpetrated this genocidal horror upon England. I don’t get it.

    The biggest enemy of the Anglo (or British or English) people that there is are in Buckingham palace. (And the craven, sniveling, traitorous ‘pederast peerage’)

    They’re selling out their very own countrymen and dooming that island for all time to hatred and misery and blood in the streets (just like Enoch Powell warned)- for scraps from Rothschild’s table. It’s like England is being run by Kapos.

    • Replies: @helena
  125. helena says:
    @Rurik

    None taken; yesterday I was called a ‘concern troll’ and a few weeks ago I was compared to Pol Pot. So almost schizo feels like a step up in the internet-world!

    Sam, who seems to be living my life in reverse – he was brought up in an English community, I was brought up in a Jewish community – explains the virtues of constitutional monarchy better than I could.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  126. Rurik says:
    @helena

    explains the virtues of constitutional monarchy

    if you say so

    it all depends on the character of the monarch

    if they’re inbred paederasts and megalomaniacal enemies of the people (think Caligula or Stalin or prince Charles), then the monarchy is a tyranny and often of the worst sort. Satanic, homicidally insane, like what England (and Canada and the US and Australia) has today.

    Fiends, or their Renfield type of servants

  127. helena says:

    “it all depends on the character of the monarch”

    yup. so does presidency and presidents can waste money too. Once the Royals have gone from UK it will become a country with no history; with imams, rabbis and bishops leading pageants, to commemorate geographically-disparate historical events, equally.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  128. woodNfish says:
    @peterike

    Cruz is for amnesty and won’t do a damned thing about illegals. He only changed his tune when he saw Trump taking all the votes, so Cruz began to lie about his actual position on illegals. The establishment would love to have Cruz as president – they own him.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  129. Rurik says:
    @helena

    Once the Royals have gone from UK it will become a country with no history

    it is the royals who have done everything in their power to destroy England and it’s most treasured and precious possession; the blood and character of the English people.

    It’s impossible to over-estimate the evil of a ruling class of elites that would set about the deliberate genocide of their own people from their ancient lands.

    To set by and watch British school girls systematically gang raped and bought and sold as chattel slaves by dusky invaders from strange lands, all under the auspices of the British authorities.

    I simply can’t imagine a British voting public that would be that incomprehensibly Satanic. It’s nothing less that a mass prostration to the god of Moloch, and an orgy of child sacrifice of the British youth into the fires of Ba’al.

    you can lose your precious pageantry and resplendent regalia for a generation or two, and still muster all the nobility of your traditions and heritage with a small effort. But once your blood is gone, it’s gone for all eternity. Then what good is all your love of English history when it’s all officially excoriated as the evil acts of evil and racist dead old white men?

    It’s very sad for someone like me to see England committing suicide. It’s school girls raped in the open with less concern than for a bitch in the gutter. It leaders pandemic child rapists and war criminals.

    How, oh how could it be any worse without that damnable hag wearing that crown?

    I suspect that for royalists, they’d eat her shit and call it a jubilee as she tosses their children onto the pyre.

    • Replies: @helena
    , @Sam Shama
  130. MarkinLA says:
    @Avery

    The A/C we use today throughout the world, including the Anglo world, was developed/invented by Tesla.

    AC wasn’t invented by Tesla. He just came up with a functional AC motor so it could be put to use for something other than lighting. There is a very real problem with high voltage and DC doesn’t have that problem so Edison was just a typical inventor stuck on his own invention not some fool or idiot.

    Let’s not forget that Tesla played with the idea of distributing electricity without wires. That is a pretty inefficient and boneheaded idea of it’s own.

    As for the mathematician stuff there are a number of significant French mathematicians who are considered among the very top Fermat, Pascal, Descartes and Poincare to name a few.

    According to this list France is very well represented.

    http://www.fabpedigree.com/james/mathmen.htm#Abel

  131. MarkinLA says:
    @woodNfish

    Cruz won’t give them a vote but he will sure let them stay and work for nothing – A Republican’s wet dream.

  132. @MarkinLA

    Why did not you mention Laplace ?

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  133. Rurik says:
    @Sam Shama

    Sam, I missed this reply!

    I just found it now by searching my own name. Glad I did

    quite easily manipulate the levers of ‘Democracy!’

    and a monarch, can they not also be manipulated? And bought and corrupted?

    As was mentioned earlier, a monarch is only as good as the person assuming the throne, and the most intractable problem with monarchs, is that if a man or woman rises to the position out of merit, it inevitably follows that their idiot offspring will undo any good they did and worse.

    And monarchies are inevitably inherited, It is their nature.

    it is my contention that none have come closer to the ideal than a popularly revered constitutional monarchy [which at this hour actually needs to exert greater influence].

    I welcome arguments in opposition.

    the only argument I need against the queen of England is the state of England today.

    as I’ve mentioned, middle aged Pakistani men regularly and routinely rape and gang rape British school girls and treat them like slaves, buying and selling them as so much chattel. To be the play things of other Pakistani men.

    a compilation

    that’s all I need to know about this monarchy, thankyouverymuch

    if that’s how they treat their own school girls, and watch them be turned into white slaves who’ll never have any kind of hope for a normal life, then you can have your ‘constitutional monarchy’

    England is being systematically overrun by immigrants who have nothing but hatred for everything British. And this is all being orchestrated at the highest levels of the British elite. The peerage and the crown. Fuck them all, I say. Bring in the guillotine

    And if you’re going to mention some of the British greats, how could you leave off Benjamin Disraeli?

    Race is everything, and every race that does not keep its blood from being mixed will perish. . . Language and religion do not determine a race–blood determines it.

    —Benjamin Disraeli

  134. helena says:
    @Rurik

    I doubt very much the Royal family knew what was happening in Rochdale and Rotherham. The people responsible for that cover up were mostly local level bureaucrats who didn’t understand what was and wasn’t allowed under the new PC regime and didn’t want to lose their cushy jobs on a charge of racism.

    Britain has two halves – the monarchy and parliament. The monarchy is christian, parliament operates as if it were secular. Without the monarchy, I don’t see christianity surviving as a moral force, for all people talk about ‘British values’.

    English ethnicity is a mixture of Celt and Norse-Germanic. So are Irish, Welsh, Scots and French in varying degrees. I literally have no Irish, Welsh, Scots or Jewish ancestors for 400 years. But I know verrrry few other people like that and I don’t think of Englishness in such narrow terms. But what I do try and say to people is that if they have three Irish grandparents, or one Jewish grandparent, or two West Indian grandparents, then what is the rest made up of? English ethnicity seems to just disappear from consciousness even though it forms the basis for many people. And it’s that basis I celebrate. Northern European is about as accurate and cohesive as it gets. I subscribe to the idea that the North Sea region has always been a centre of development in the same way that the mediterranean has. The last several thousand years, escalating in the last two thou, seems to have been a conflagration between people who migrated west from plains and people who migrated north from deserts.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  135. MarkinLA says:
    @Immigrant from former USSR

    He is in the list. What I posted was off the top of my head. Then I searched and found the list and Laplace was very high there (higher than some on my list) so I figured anybody would just look at the list instead of my post.

  136. @MarkinLA

    Operator On = ∂^n/∂x^n + ∂^n/∂y^n + ∂^n/∂z^n is trivially invariant with respect to interchanges x ↔ y, x ↔ z, y ↔ z for any positive integer n.

    But only for n = 2 it becomes invariant with respect to any continuous rotation among coordinates x, y, z, thus expressing the idea of isotropy of our 3D space.
    It is this operator, O2, which is called Laplace operator, and equation

    O2{u(x,y,z)}=0

    is the famous Laplace equation.
    Components of electrostatic field, magnetostatic field, gravitational field, all in vacuum, do satisfy Laplace equation.

  137. Rurik says:
    @helena

    I doubt very much the Royal family knew what was happening in Rochdale and Rotherham.

    it’s happening all over England, look at London!

    what was and wasn’t allowed under the new PC regime and didn’t want to lose their cushy jobs on a charge of racism.

    Exactly!

    …one Jewish grandparent, or two West Indian grandparents, then what is the rest made up of? English ethnicity seems to just disappear…

    yep

    people who migrated north from deserts.

    you can be reasonably certain that those people are not British, and no accent will make them so

    Here’s to hoping that the British people find their nads and toss the queen and her idiot son into the Atlantic, along with that other doltish omega male William.

    I’d like to see Prince Harry (who has real British blood in his veins) inherit the crown, if anyone. Perhaps he could impregnate Kate (if he hasn’t already ; ) and then the Duchess of Cambridge can be like that French princess from the movie Braveheart, and whisper into the moldy ear of that dying bitch, that the seed of another line is growing in her womb, and that her “royal blood” ends with her fetid dying breath. That’s what I’d like to see. ; )

    • Replies: @helena
  138. Sam Shama says:
    @Rurik

    I haven’t the foggiest why you harbour such hatred for the Queen. I shall put it down to some combination of never having direct awareness or acquaintance with the English culture, coloured entirely by what you read on the internet regarding Britain’s long imperial history [some of it undergoing PC revisionism, sadly] .

    What Helena wrote earlier regarding the Queen’s [or other royals’] lack of any knowledge regarding Rochdale and Rotherham can be appended, by what one should only imagine to be utter shock and dismay on their part.

    Her Majesty remains the most loved and popular person in England, and that does not happen to a [difficult for me to type the words] ‘damnable hag wearing that crown’.

    Also, all is far from lost for England. It is still of roughly 83% English stock, Scots and Irish about 5% and whites in all about 91%. The Indians [about 2.5%] are a quiet lot and mostly royalists. Pakis [1.5%] I concede are troublesome. Upon this canvas, the constitutional monarchy can and does exercise moral influence. That influence in a nutshell, needs to be exalted at this hour.

    P.S.: may I ask as to who amongst leaders, past and present, you consider as having met your high standards?

    • Replies: @Rurik
  139. WG Dupree says:
    @Yevardian

    By putting these types of columns on his site, Mr. Unz is opening a forum for honest debate. In years past, I frequented websites that echoed my own sentiments. I also found that, by closing off opposing points of view, fallacious assumptions in our own points of view are not exposed. We are all, after all, human and prone to error.

    If Mr. Unz decided that he would restrict commentary only to the viewpoints of those who agreed with what is characterized as a “right wing” viewpoint, this site would be no better than MSM sites, or sites such as the Huffington Post, or even Townhall.

    Maybe it is a litmus-test. Either way, reading the articles on this site, whether I agree with the sentiment or not (and I definitely do not agree with the sentiment in this article), causes me to think outside of my comfort zone. If nothing else, reading articles with which I disagree causes me to review the reasons why I have the viewpoints that I do.

  140. helena says:
    @Rurik

    Sounds to me as if you would really enjoy reading up on the history of British monarchy because it is full of scenes similar to that. I seem to instantly forget the details of who did what, but women play a fascinating and pivotal role in many eras. Just one example is the mother of Henry Tudor – a mother at 13 and completely ruined for childbirth thereafter. But she kept it together and plotted and escaped etc. and eventually saw her son crowned. Another interesting detail is that Henry and Elizabeth whilst settling for protestantism secretly kept alive and advanced choral music. just examples that there are really interesting stories; it’s not just dates but rather how the aristocracy and nobility strategised, sometimes for personal power, sometimes for real principles and belief.

    I’m not overly optimistic for Britain. It seems we’re being being refashioned as a banking centre with some nice country walks and cafes. Once the excess residents of London are pushed out, and they will be, there will be some unrest. But if some areas are allowed to remain christianish we may survive.

    My heart goes out to the American south/west because I’m a devotee of all things cowboy and country. I fear for Appalachia; it may go down fighting.

  141. Rurik says:
    @Sam Shama

    I haven’t the foggiest why you harbour such hatred for the Queen. I shall put it down to some combination of never having direct awareness or acquaintance with the English culture

    quite the contrary Sam. My contempt for the queen has everything to do with my affection for all things British. Seeing what has happened to the glory of England these last hundred or so years, my heart simply breaks for England and the British people.

    I guess I’ll put it this way…

    I have a special place of contempt for people who do the reverse of what they’re paid and trusted to do. Like that physician in Detroit who was recently sentenced for poisoning his patients in order to collect more money on chemo therapy. Or Supreme Court Justices who use their position to subvert the very principles of the document they swore a sacred oath to uphold. It is because of the near-divine trust we put in these people, and the power and guarantees of their exalted status that we hope that they don’t betray us all, but betray us they do, and for earthly rewards no less. And you can almost gage my contempt for this kind of betrayal by the level of trust and enormity of betrayal that goes with that level of trust.

    Now with a queen or king, it’s hard to imagine a position more trusted to represent the hopes and dreams and aspirations of the people for whom this sovereign wields all this power. And so with the degree of power and trust that’s conferred upon them, in a sort of covenant between ruled and ruler, when that trust is betrayed, then it’s something for the Gods themselves to loath and despise.

    And as far as I can see, with the British culture being turned into a diseased whore, and political correctness is running rampant, and the borders are wide open to every dreg from every stinking previous colony shithole. So, I just can’t say I approve of how the queen has been reigning over her country.

    Sure, the sheeple still go to her “jubilees” and shove for a look from the gorgon, but for me that only goes to show how debased the British people have become.

    What was a glorious empire, has imploded into a moral squalor. British women and girls are known for getting sloppy drunk and being slappers for all comers.

    The “men” increasingly ‘metro-ised’ into effeminate gay things.

    if a man does act like a man, and defend his hearth from thugs, they arrest the man and coddle the thugs.

    here’s some cartoons and images that I guess say it better than I can:

  142. Avery says:
    @MarkinLA

    {According to this list France is very well represented.}

    Thanks for the link.
    I stand corrected re French mathematicians.
    For modern times, amongst Europeans, and assuming the list is complete, French are at the top.

    France 33 (mathematicians.)
    Germany 26.
    Italy 13.
    England 12.
    Russia 9.
    Switzerland 6.
    Poland 4.
    U.S.A. 4.
    Norway 4.
    Britain 3.
    Ireland 1.

    I may have missed some. Also, for some mathematicians more than one country is listed: counted only the first. And certainly some of the ‘greatest’ are greater than other greatest.

    Regarding Tesla:

    I should have been more careful with my wording. Certainly several people worked on developing AC, and not only Tesla.
    Tesla invented/developed the first practical AC motor, as you noted, which Westinghouse licensed (Tesla Polyphase System). Westghouse’s demonstration of a complete AC distribution system at World Fair in Chicago was key in demonstrating the safety and reliability of an AC power distribution system.
    Edison is credited for the incandescent light bulb, phonograph, and moving picture: however, others were also working on similar inventions/technologies. But Edison got there first, e.g. by developing (via endless tinkering) the first incandescent filament that lasted.
    In the same vein, Tesla, working with Westinghouse, was instrumental in popularizing AC.

    The original chain of my posts was in response to poster [syonredux ] re Edison specifically.
    I consider Tesla superior to Edison: Edison was a tinkerer: Tesla designed, developed entire systems in his mind.

    But Edison vs Tesla “who is better” battle is one of the most enduring, so……..

    • Replies: @syonredux
  143. syonredux says:
    @Avery

    Edison was a tinkerer:

    If only every “tinkerer” could invent things like the phonograph, the quadruplex telegraph, the fluoroscope, etc, etc,

  144. I sense that Trump’s support is precipitously declining, even on Unz. Folks are no longer eager to defend him. If they do, it’s an uninspiring lesser-evil argument. What’s happened recently:

    1. The Lewandowsky scandal that, petty as it is, gives the lie to Trump’s claim that he always “hires the best.”

    2. His pandering to the feminists through the contortion that abortion is murder without the mother being an accessory to the murder.

  145. Sam J. says:

    It’s blindingly simple to deport all these people. They walked here they can walk back or drive if they’ve acquired a car.
    Give the aliens 6 weeks to work and save for the trip. After that they get two weeks to leave the country. Any employer caught hiring illegal aliens after the 6 week period will be prosecuted under the RICO act and everything they own will be subject to forfeit. Cars, homes, tools, equipment. Everything. Make a deal with several African countries. Say Central African Republic, Congo, Uganda, etc. to take the aliens in for a fee. A little 10 billion dollar or so bribe should be sufficient to acquire these rights. Send every illegal alien we catch after the 8 week waiting period directly to Africa. They want to migrate…ok. A few plane loads sent to Africa and landed in the jungle and I bet we wouldn’t even need a fence.

  146. iv says:
    @joe webb

    …another person clinging to the ideology of White America, never even realizing that there is no more white America…

    The seething hatred in writings like this writing via Joe Webb, is proof positive that there is a justified fear of the coming future…

    …let go of the past Joe…your making it more difficult for discussions of peace by Americans of all ethnicity’s… …what will be stamped out ultimately, is not people, but open hatred towards people without fear of violence…

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