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"Rolling Stone" Publishes Article Arguing Rebuilding of Notre Dame Cathedral Shouldn't Reflect France's White/Catholic History, But Its Multicultural (Muslim) Future
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The horrible fire at the Notre Dame Cathedral, the magnificent 800-year-old structure serving as a beautiful symbol of western civilization, is still smoldering. Yet there exists those who argue it shouldn’t be rebuilt to its original form, because of the large Muslim population now residing in France.

And, of course, anyone who notices this large Muslim population is immediately an Islamophobe or a member of the far-right… [How Should France Rebuild Notre Dame?: Much of the structure survived the blaze — but as rebuilding efforts move forward, the country will be left with a big question: What does the cathedral mean to 21st-century France?, Rolling Stone, April 16, 2019]:

Over the course of the past few centuries, the cathedral has played a role in major historical events, from the coronation of kings to the crowning of Napoleon to the requiem mass of President Charles de Gaulle. And Notre Dame has served as a symbol of not just French historical identity, but Catholicism in general. “It has a double meaning,” says Jean-Robert Armogathe, a French Catholic priest and historian who served as the chaplain at Notre Dame from 1980 to 1985. “It has been the center of Catholic life and of France for 800 years.” As Armogathe points out, it is also quite literally the center of Paris: a gold star outside the cathedral marks Point Zero, the supposed center of the city.

But for some people in France, Notre Dame has also served as a deep-seated symbol of resentment, a monument to a deeply flawed institution and an idealized Christian European France that arguably never existed in the first place. “The building was so overburdened with meaning that its burning feels like an act of liberation,” says Patricio del Real, an architecture historian at Harvard University. If nothing else, the cathedral has been viewed by some as a stodgy reminder of “the old city — the embodiment of the Paris of stone and faith — just as the Eiffel Tower exemplifies the Paris of modernity, joie de vivre and change,” Michael Kimmelmann wrote for the New York Times.

Despite politicians on both sides of the French political spectrum discouraging people from trying to politicize the Notre Dame fire, it would be a mistake to view the building as little more than a Paris tourist attraction, says John Harwood, an architectural historian and associate professor at the University of Toronto. “It’s literally a political monument. All cathedrals are,” he says. For centuries, the cathedral was the seat of the bishop of the Catholic Church at a time when there was virtually no distinction between church and state. “It was the center and seat of political power not just in Paris, but in France,” he says. “And that remained the case even after the French Revolution and through successive revolutions and political power and regimes.”

Notre Dame acquired even more overtly nationalist symbolism following its renovation in the Nineteenth century by Eugène-Emmanuel Viollet-le-Duc, who is widely considered the godfather of modern historical architectural restoration. Viollet-le-Duc sought to restore the edifice’s Gothic past, a style that was largely unpopular at the time; his restoration that accounts for the western facade, the (now-destroyed) spire, as well as modifications to the choir and the additions of gothic stained glass-windows.

What it means to be “French,” however, has obviously changed a great deal over the past few centuries. While France is still predominantly Christian, the number of practicing Catholics has fallen year after year, from 64% in 2010 to 56% in 2012, according to one census figure. The number of Muslims in France is also growing, comprising more than 5% of the population (up from 3% in 2006) giving rise to rampant Islamophobia and the birth of far-right extremist parties like the National Front, headed by extremist Marine Le Pen. A profound income gap has also led to the explosion of protests from so-called “yellow vests,” a movement primarily made up of lower-middle-class and middle-class youth on the left who have vandalized many similarly historically significant French monuments (and whose latest actions Macron was expected to comment on in a scheduled press conference, which was postponed when Notre Dame started burning). In fact, in the hours following the fire, many started blaming the accident on the yellow vests; there was also a flurry of Islamophobic posts on social media attributing the fire to Muslim extremist terrorists, despite the fact that all evidence currently indicates that the blaze was accidental.

Despite the lip service many French people and politicians have given to the symbolic significance of Notre Dame in the hours following the fire, Birignani says that as France has changed, so too has Notre Dame lost some of its weight as a totem of national identity, and is skeptical of some of the effusive rhetoric that has been borne from the flames. Now that the world has rallied in support of the rebuilding of the cathedral, however, and donations have started pouring in from all over the world, there’s likely to be renewed interest around the cathedral as an emblem of French history and culture. For some, this is deeply concerning. “One of the things that worries me about this event is that in a country that is deeply divided right now like France is and having this assumption of [Notre Dame] serving as a bedrock institution, it creates a hole and you have to imagine what it has to become again and who does the imagining, and that is a really loaded question,” says Harwood.

Although Macron and donors like Pinault have emphasized that the cathedral should be rebuilt as close to the original as possible, some architectural historians like Brigniani believe that would be complicated, given the many stages of the cathedral’s evolution. “The question becomes, which Notre Dame are you actually rebuilding?,” he says. Harwood, too, believes that it would be a mistake to try to recreate the edifice as it once stood, as LeDuc did more than 150 years ago. Any rebuilding should be a reflection not of an old France, or the France that never was — a non-secular, white European France — but a reflection of the France of today, a France that is currently in the making. “The idea that you can recreate the building is naive. It is to repeat past errors, category errors of thought, and one has to imagine that if anything is done to the building it has to be an expression of what we want — the Catholics of France, the French people — want. What is an expression of who we are now? What does it represent, who is it for?,” he says.

Hamburger, however, dismisses this idea as “preposterous.” Now that the full extent of the damage is being reckoned with — and is less than many initially feared — he sees no reason to not try to rebuild and preserve one of the few remaining wonders of medieval architecture. “It’s not as if in rebuilding the church one is necessarily building a monument to the glorification of medieval catholicism and aristocracy. It’s simply the case that the building has witnessed the entire history of France as a modern nation,” he says. “[You] can’t just erase history. It’s there, and it has to be dealt with critically.”

Who are we now? What does it represent, who is it for?

Not the French people. Not Catholics. Not white people. They are being replaced, with the Notre Dame Cathedral a relic of western civilization being supplanted by France’s vibrant, multicultural future.

Pray for the Notre Dame Cathedral. Pray for the French people. Pray for our civilization.

 
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  1. RS has been a collection of ass-clowns for decades. France has be overrun with architecturally depressing mosques – do they really want to turn a Western Civilization masterpiece into a low-rent filthy mosque? In American, the newly imported Muslims have been turning the old beautiful Pittsburgh churches into hookah bars.

    • Agree: Augustus, Realist, MarcB.
  2. These idiot over-educated “historians” should shut their damn pieholes.

    The Catholic Church of France was begging for donations for much-needed repairs, and France did nothing. The Cathedral is the property of the RCC and if you think they’re gonna put a damn minaret on top, you’ve got another think coming.

    And as an aside: don’t even THINK about donating money until you know what they’re going to do with the restoration.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Carlo
    In fact, the cathedral belongs to the French state, and the Catholic church is the only benefitiary in perpetuity:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notre-Dame_de_Paris#Ownership
    So, unfortunately, the French government can do to it pretty much what it wants, and seeing who is in power today we cannot expect anything good.
  3. The Pope said the church should be replaced with a mosque, and he said
    that Catholics should wash the feet of muslims to atone for the Crusades.
    He also said there are no homosexual priests.

  4. Well the Rolling Stone does have a shrine to Satan, so why am I not surprised that they’d stoop to this?

  5. Wow. Scared me there for a while. Site was down all day and even when it came back the comments were all closed.

    I blame the terrorists.

    • Agree: lou
  6. Thought y’all would love to read this. Was trying to find out more information about Alyson Johnson, the woman who sprayed “racist” graffiti in OKC and Norman, and came across this gem

    “The assertion that this was a “fake hate crime” is baffling, because, well, it did happen. It is a hate crime, and, whatever the motivation, the impact certainly wasn’t fake.

    Our response shouldn’t be either.”

    https://www.normantranscript.com/opinion/editorials/editorial-rally-brought-healing-not-cure/article_a9790834-2a8e-5016-9f53-f8499fd2a359.html

    THats rights whitey. Fake hate crimes are real because the impact is felt. You are always guilty

  7. Rolling Stone Magazine Argues Rebuilding of Notre Dame Cathedral Shouldn’t Reflect France’s White/Catholic History, But Its Multicultural (Muslim) Future

    Then leave it a smoldering ruin.

  8. I’ve already said what I’d do with the restoration, if they put me in charge.

    0.  Power-wash all the soot off everything that’s not too delicate for such treatment.

    1.  Rebuild the timber roof structure with galvanized steel beams and trusses, electrically insulated from the copper roofing if necessary to prevent galvanic corrosion.  Ceramic and glass insulators work wonders, and glass as thin as a microscope cover slip will do.  Build something to last for the NEXT 800 years.

    2.  Insulate with incombustible materials like rock wool, where such is necessary.

    3.  Commission sculptors to re-create all the statuary that cannot be repaired.  For all surviving statues and lost statues for which adequately precise photography is available, create computer models sufficient to re-sculpt with multi-axis milling machines.  Offer limited-edition copies to collectors at auction.  Spread the artwork of Notre Dame around the world while raising money.

    I have no sympathy whatsoever for the church of Rome, but Notre Dame is a symbol of Western Man and shall not disappear if I have anything to say about it.

    • Agree: Mr McKenna
    • Replies: @Lockean Proviso
    The French are good with aerospace and hydraulic technology, so I was thinking Airbus could build a grey or white weave carbon fiber roof in sections that a heavy lift helicopter or cranes could emplace on top sooner to seal from the elements, then put in emergency water plumbing over that with 3D printed sprayers that look like stone rosettes or another period design in a pattern around the new roof. Then a proper copper or bronze roof could be put in on top of that to finish.
  9. OT (forgive me, but I don’t do this much):

    Regarding Mr. Kersey’s post on the young Samantha Josephson from N. Jersey, murdered in Columbia, S. Carolina, I read a small memorial to the girl that went:

    We are so sorry that the world couldn’t keep you safe.

    I think one could write a whole thesis on the stupidity contained within that one sentence.

    • Agree: Cauchemar du Singe
  10. Rolling Stone Magazine Argues

    ‘RS’ has been almost single-minded in its dedication to the eradication of the white race of human beings, and as their more infamous, deliberate hoaxes have shown, they’ll stop at nothing to achieve their aims.

    That is to say, they’re pretty much like the rest of the ‘controlled media’–only more so. The less attention we give them the better. Except perhaps to call them out now and then as Mr Kersey does here.

  11. medieval catholicism

    Uh, that’s in upper-case, Jann.

    It’s been a crap magazine covering crap music for 50 years. Why would you expect anything good from them about architecture?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Jann Wenner is a piece of shit and I regret that he wasn't taken for a good chunk of his personal wealth in court over the Haven Monahan catfishing thing with Sabrina Rubin whateverhernameis.
  12. Latest tweet from Sabrina Rubin Erdely — “LOL” — consider the source.

  13. Rolling Stone magazine is just trash. At the height of its popularity, the 70’s, it was buffoonish. Rock ‘n’ Roll, which was its original reason for being, was held in obvious contempt by its writers, all of whom were snivelling New York City nebbishes who thought pop music had value because it was heralding a (vaguely Marxist) revolution! The only interesting thing about RS is that it still exists in print form, albeit in a much smaller format. Pretty soon it will be the size of “Reader’s Digest.” It must have extremely low circulation. There can’t be more than a few thousand drooling imbeciles who still take it seriously.

    If you enjoy morbid humor, check out some of the issues from ’77 (for example) and see how they gush over 10cc and Steely Dan while ridiculing Jimmy Page and his irritating little band of Englishmen. Mick Jagger is considered a god, apparently because he dated Jan Wenner.

  14. I was watching a Star Trek movie which still featured the original cast. A female author of books based upon the original series stated that one of Gene Roddenberry’s original purposes in creating the series was the promotion of what we call today “diversity”. There will be nothing uniquely French in the rebuilding of the Notre Dame Cathedral if they give in to the social justice warriors and their take on history. To be considered Greek in the ancient sense of the word meant that to be Greek was to share common altars, a common language, and a common culture. Atheism, immigration, and Islam which are all foreign to traditional French culture. The Cathedral should be rebuilt as close to the original as possible. It is meant to be a church where people go to worship, specifically French worshipers. It is more than a tourist attraction but a symbol of French identity. Diversity destroys identity. Diversity blurs the line that identifies distinctions between one people and another. The Cathedral when it is rebuilt, should leave no doubt that is Christian, Catholic, and more importantly in this context, French.

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational

    To be considered Greek in the ancient sense of the word meant that to be Greek was to share common altars, a common language, and a common culture. Atheism, immigration, and Islam which are all foreign to traditional French culture.
     
    One of these things does not belong.

    Both France and ancient Greece had their indigenous atheists.  Atheism has been growing as religions and their dogmas have increasingly fallen behind the flood of knowledge which shows them to be erroneous, literally bronze-age myths in many cases.  Theologians by and large are literally too ignorant of the emerging facts to even keep doctrine abreast of the tsunami of knowledge, let alone get in front of it.  Religion is increasingly a place the ignorant flee to, a place where they can get pat answers to everything that matters and stop having to think (Islam especially, but also Social Justice).

    The price of civilization is eternal thoughtfulness.  That's why we're witnessing it in the process of collapse:  generations of dysgenic immigration and breeding have led to a population too dumb to keep it going.

    , @Alden
    I used to watch Star Trek every weeknight when cooking dinner. Perfect timing from opening the fridge to everyone sitting down at the table.

    I noticed right away that it was diversity propaganda. Every episode the ship encountered a strange people, problems ensued then everyone reconciled and it was just peace and love. The actress who later played Jerry Seinfeld’s mother appeared with gorgeous legs in those mini skirts in Star Trek by the way

    Like most people I watched Gunsmoke when I was a kid. I didn’t watch again till I retired. Again, diversity diversity. Every episode is a new comer in town problems, then everything’s OK and we all learn a lesson in multicultural don’t fear the stranger.
  15. Rolling Stone?

    The four copies (maybe three) if Rolling Stone that I’ve bought since my teens were purchased because of someone with big tits in the cover, I’m certain.

    Truthfully, I can’t remember an article or feature in the music rag even remotely memorable.

    To report in what Rolling Stone thinks about the repairs on Notre Dame is slightly less valid that Popular Mechanics opinion of the same.

    Maybe Woman’s Day can shed some light?

    If there was a ‘This Old Cathedral’ magazine, I might have perked up, awaiting their input.

    Wasting time with trash like Rolling Stone, who certainly consider themselves important, is like getting your news from the black kid on the ‘Daily Show’. Or any of the other ‘Saturday Night Live’ type news shows.

    I remember when they used to actually be funny. Now they’re just a sad reminder of how far the leftist cancer has spread. Now they represent nothing but another way to slash and tear at the fabric of our country.

    Why do we seek out and repeat the mindless ramblings of actors and comedians? Akin to the court jesters and minstrels of old, I doubt if any kind ever sought their counsel. They represent a group of spoiled people with no work ethic, depraved morals and an entitled sense of self. Yet their opinions and rebuttals litter the headlines as if they actually meant something.

    I don’t care what Bono or Madonna think about life in Africa. I’m not sure why anyone would be foolish enough to ask Jim Carrey about international trade. Would you tap Alec Baldwin on the shoulder and discuss politics?

    It’s long past time to start dismissing this peripheral nonsense and bear down on the real issues before us.

    The issue is, are we, the white race; builders if everything, inventors and innovators of everything touched and used during your day, are we just going to stand aside and let the third world take over the reigns of the world we built and inherit a future they cannot either maintain or understand?

    The answer is a simple – No.

  16. @woody weaver
    I was watching a Star Trek movie which still featured the original cast. A female author of books based upon the original series stated that one of Gene Roddenberry's original purposes in creating the series was the promotion of what we call today "diversity". There will be nothing uniquely French in the rebuilding of the Notre Dame Cathedral if they give in to the social justice warriors and their take on history. To be considered Greek in the ancient sense of the word meant that to be Greek was to share common altars, a common language, and a common culture. Atheism, immigration, and Islam which are all foreign to traditional French culture. The Cathedral should be rebuilt as close to the original as possible. It is meant to be a church where people go to worship, specifically French worshipers. It is more than a tourist attraction but a symbol of French identity. Diversity destroys identity. Diversity blurs the line that identifies distinctions between one people and another. The Cathedral when it is rebuilt, should leave no doubt that is Christian, Catholic, and more importantly in this context, French.

    To be considered Greek in the ancient sense of the word meant that to be Greek was to share common altars, a common language, and a common culture. Atheism, immigration, and Islam which are all foreign to traditional French culture.

    One of these things does not belong.

    Both France and ancient Greece had their indigenous atheists.  Atheism has been growing as religions and their dogmas have increasingly fallen behind the flood of knowledge which shows them to be erroneous, literally bronze-age myths in many cases.  Theologians by and large are literally too ignorant of the emerging facts to even keep doctrine abreast of the tsunami of knowledge, let alone get in front of it.  Religion is increasingly a place the ignorant flee to, a place where they can get pat answers to everything that matters and stop having to think (Islam especially, but also Social Justice).

    The price of civilization is eternal thoughtfulness.  That’s why we’re witnessing it in the process of collapse:  generations of dysgenic immigration and breeding have led to a population too dumb to keep it going.

    • Replies: @Cauchemar du Singe
    Rejection or non-acceptance of organized religion, structured dogma, priesthoods and theological speculators does NOT equal Atheism.
    Agnosticism...doubting, and the realization that much is unknown is also NOT Atheism.
    Faith, whether based on strange experience or an undefined general sense of need, is not mutually exclusive of Science, the material and the temporal.

    Even Satanists aren't atheists, because they grovel to the imagined or real-to-them opposite of The Godhead, Great Spirit, Almighty Father, Cosmic Engineer or whatever term is applied to The Alpha and Omega...

    Ask: What caused The Big Bang ?
    Who lit the fuse, and how, with what, where ?

    Don't get a headache over this.
    Try not to be a douchenozzle, don't associate with scumbags and try to live a good life.
    Keep your RADAR on, carry a spare mag, a blade...a song in your heart and a smile on your face.
    Eventually, all concerns will be resolved.
    , @iffen
    generations of dysgenic immigration and breeding have led to a population too dumb to keep it going.


    Well, it was a marvel when it was going good.
  17. I’m surprised RS hasn’t been sued out of existence after that “rape at a frat party” story.

    I hope they rebuild Notre Dame just the way it was.

    • Replies: @Feedsackroad

    I hope they rebuild Notre Dame just the way it was.
     
    Rebuilding Notre Dame Cathedral is like pouring money into your house after the neighborhood goes under. Why pour money down a hole? In fifty years Notre Dame will be a Muslim bazaar.
  18. @Mr. Rational

    To be considered Greek in the ancient sense of the word meant that to be Greek was to share common altars, a common language, and a common culture. Atheism, immigration, and Islam which are all foreign to traditional French culture.
     
    One of these things does not belong.

    Both France and ancient Greece had their indigenous atheists.  Atheism has been growing as religions and their dogmas have increasingly fallen behind the flood of knowledge which shows them to be erroneous, literally bronze-age myths in many cases.  Theologians by and large are literally too ignorant of the emerging facts to even keep doctrine abreast of the tsunami of knowledge, let alone get in front of it.  Religion is increasingly a place the ignorant flee to, a place where they can get pat answers to everything that matters and stop having to think (Islam especially, but also Social Justice).

    The price of civilization is eternal thoughtfulness.  That's why we're witnessing it in the process of collapse:  generations of dysgenic immigration and breeding have led to a population too dumb to keep it going.

    Rejection or non-acceptance of organized religion, structured dogma, priesthoods and theological speculators does NOT equal Atheism.
    Agnosticism…doubting, and the realization that much is unknown is also NOT Atheism.
    Faith, whether based on strange experience or an undefined general sense of need, is not mutually exclusive of Science, the material and the temporal.

    Even Satanists aren’t atheists, because they grovel to the imagined or real-to-them opposite of The Godhead, Great Spirit, Almighty Father, Cosmic Engineer or whatever term is applied to The Alpha and Omega…

    Ask: What caused The Big Bang ?
    Who lit the fuse, and how, with what, where ?

    Don’t get a headache over this.
    Try not to be a douchenozzle, don’t associate with scumbags and try to live a good life.
    Keep your RADAR on, carry a spare mag, a blade…a song in your heart and a smile on your face.
    Eventually, all concerns will be resolved.

  19. @Mr. Rational
    I've already said what I'd do with the restoration, if they put me in charge.

    0.  Power-wash all the soot off everything that's not too delicate for such treatment.

    1.  Rebuild the timber roof structure with galvanized steel beams and trusses, electrically insulated from the copper roofing if necessary to prevent galvanic corrosion.  Ceramic and glass insulators work wonders, and glass as thin as a microscope cover slip will do.  Build something to last for the NEXT 800 years.

    2.  Insulate with incombustible materials like rock wool, where such is necessary.

    3.  Commission sculptors to re-create all the statuary that cannot be repaired.  For all surviving statues and lost statues for which adequately precise photography is available, create computer models sufficient to re-sculpt with multi-axis milling machines.  Offer limited-edition copies to collectors at auction.  Spread the artwork of Notre Dame around the world while raising money.

    I have no sympathy whatsoever for the church of Rome, but Notre Dame is a symbol of Western Man and shall not disappear if I have anything to say about it.

    The French are good with aerospace and hydraulic technology, so I was thinking Airbus could build a grey or white weave carbon fiber roof in sections that a heavy lift helicopter or cranes could emplace on top sooner to seal from the elements, then put in emergency water plumbing over that with 3D printed sprayers that look like stone rosettes or another period design in a pattern around the new roof. Then a proper copper or bronze roof could be put in on top of that to finish.

  20. Ask Charlie Hebdo about that idea.

  21. @Technomad
    I'm surprised RS hasn't been sued out of existence after that "rape at a frat party" story.

    I hope they rebuild Notre Dame just the way it was.

    I hope they rebuild Notre Dame just the way it was.

    Rebuilding Notre Dame Cathedral is like pouring money into your house after the neighborhood goes under. Why pour money down a hole? In fifty years Notre Dame will be a Muslim bazaar.

  22. @Mr. Rational

    To be considered Greek in the ancient sense of the word meant that to be Greek was to share common altars, a common language, and a common culture. Atheism, immigration, and Islam which are all foreign to traditional French culture.
     
    One of these things does not belong.

    Both France and ancient Greece had their indigenous atheists.  Atheism has been growing as religions and their dogmas have increasingly fallen behind the flood of knowledge which shows them to be erroneous, literally bronze-age myths in many cases.  Theologians by and large are literally too ignorant of the emerging facts to even keep doctrine abreast of the tsunami of knowledge, let alone get in front of it.  Religion is increasingly a place the ignorant flee to, a place where they can get pat answers to everything that matters and stop having to think (Islam especially, but also Social Justice).

    The price of civilization is eternal thoughtfulness.  That's why we're witnessing it in the process of collapse:  generations of dysgenic immigration and breeding have led to a population too dumb to keep it going.

    generations of dysgenic immigration and breeding have led to a population too dumb to keep it going.

    Well, it was a marvel when it was going good.

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational

    it was a marvel when it was going good.
     
    We'd have no trouble getting it going again with a wee bit of work.  We just have to return the Africans and crimmigrants and make sure our own dumbest 20% and psychopaths don't breed for a few generations.  Of course we know (((who))) will be screaming about the action against psychopaths, but they're the engine behind the entire problem anyway.
  23. @iffen
    generations of dysgenic immigration and breeding have led to a population too dumb to keep it going.


    Well, it was a marvel when it was going good.

    it was a marvel when it was going good.

    We’d have no trouble getting it going again with a wee bit of work.  We just have to return the Africans and crimmigrants and make sure our own dumbest 20% and psychopaths don’t breed for a few generations.  Of course we know (((who))) will be screaming about the action against psychopaths, but they’re the engine behind the entire problem anyway.

  24. Notice how the people who want to put theory and political trendiness ahead of accurately reproducing the fine craftsmanship of the era do not make things.

    Pinault is a manufacturer of fine luxury goods, made in France, so he is focused on being faithful to what was made by the super-skilled artisans, engineers and designers of 8 centuries ago. You don’t need to conjure up respect by concocting elaborate theories, bringing in subjects only peripherally relate to the artwork, when you appreciate how intricate things are made because of making things yourself.

    If any trends of the current era come into play, it should be aging Goths, demanding that the Gothic style they embraced not too long ago be respected. Styles are often resuscitated, hundreds of years after their origination. Nothing is really new.

    Because they funded our revolution and gave us the Statue of Liberty, the USA owes France the “big trees” it needs to properly restore the roof of the Notre Dame cathedral. We have them, too, and Trump could annoy the environmentalists, while distracting attention from the Mueller Report, by sending some big trees from our national forests over to France. It’ll be a good history lesson for the kids. Most of them don’t know who funded the American Revolution or anything much about our history. They know a lot about racial and gender politics.

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational

    Because they funded our revolution and gave us the Statue of Liberty, the USA owes France the “big trees” it needs to properly restore the roof of the Notre Dame cathedral.
     
    Why trees?  The builders of Notre Dame didn't use wood because it was the best material.  They used it because it was the only thing they had that would do the job.  Why rebuild after a fire with something that will be just as flammable as the original?

    The roof beams don't show from the outside, and steel is a huge improvement over wood in all respects including flammability.  Sheathe it in copper to look like the original and you're golden (literally, at least until it develops that green patina).  I can think of ways to make the steel beautiful from the inside as well.  Ponder sweeping arches supporting the roof peaks, graceful trusswork in the beams.  That's where the new can fuse with the old without marring it.

    And as for the spire... steel is a GREAT material for tall things.  Make it 50% taller as a raised middle finger to the black-rock worshippers.
  25. @woody weaver
    I was watching a Star Trek movie which still featured the original cast. A female author of books based upon the original series stated that one of Gene Roddenberry's original purposes in creating the series was the promotion of what we call today "diversity". There will be nothing uniquely French in the rebuilding of the Notre Dame Cathedral if they give in to the social justice warriors and their take on history. To be considered Greek in the ancient sense of the word meant that to be Greek was to share common altars, a common language, and a common culture. Atheism, immigration, and Islam which are all foreign to traditional French culture. The Cathedral should be rebuilt as close to the original as possible. It is meant to be a church where people go to worship, specifically French worshipers. It is more than a tourist attraction but a symbol of French identity. Diversity destroys identity. Diversity blurs the line that identifies distinctions between one people and another. The Cathedral when it is rebuilt, should leave no doubt that is Christian, Catholic, and more importantly in this context, French.

    I used to watch Star Trek every weeknight when cooking dinner. Perfect timing from opening the fridge to everyone sitting down at the table.

    I noticed right away that it was diversity propaganda. Every episode the ship encountered a strange people, problems ensued then everyone reconciled and it was just peace and love. The actress who later played Jerry Seinfeld’s mother appeared with gorgeous legs in those mini skirts in Star Trek by the way

    Like most people I watched Gunsmoke when I was a kid. I didn’t watch again till I retired. Again, diversity diversity. Every episode is a new comer in town problems, then everything’s OK and we all learn a lesson in multicultural don’t fear the stranger.

  26. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    medieval catholicism
     
    Uh, that's in upper-case, Jann.

    It's been a crap magazine covering crap music for 50 years. Why would you expect anything good from them about architecture?

    Jann Wenner is a piece of shit and I regret that he wasn’t taken for a good chunk of his personal wealth in court over the Haven Monahan catfishing thing with Sabrina Rubin whateverhernameis.

  27. @Endgame Napoleon
    Notice how the people who want to put theory and political trendiness ahead of accurately reproducing the fine craftsmanship of the era do not make things.

    Pinault is a manufacturer of fine luxury goods, made in France, so he is focused on being faithful to what was made by the super-skilled artisans, engineers and designers of 8 centuries ago. You don’t need to conjure up respect by concocting elaborate theories, bringing in subjects only peripherally relate to the artwork, when you appreciate how intricate things are made because of making things yourself.

    If any trends of the current era come into play, it should be aging Goths, demanding that the Gothic style they embraced not too long ago be respected. Styles are often resuscitated, hundreds of years after their origination. Nothing is really new.

    Because they funded our revolution and gave us the Statue of Liberty, the USA owes France the “big trees” it needs to properly restore the roof of the Notre Dame cathedral. We have them, too, and Trump could annoy the environmentalists, while distracting attention from the Mueller Report, by sending some big trees from our national forests over to France. It’ll be a good history lesson for the kids. Most of them don’t know who funded the American Revolution or anything much about our history. They know a lot about racial and gender politics.

    Because they funded our revolution and gave us the Statue of Liberty, the USA owes France the “big trees” it needs to properly restore the roof of the Notre Dame cathedral.

    Why trees?  The builders of Notre Dame didn’t use wood because it was the best material.  They used it because it was the only thing they had that would do the job.  Why rebuild after a fire with something that will be just as flammable as the original?

    The roof beams don’t show from the outside, and steel is a huge improvement over wood in all respects including flammability.  Sheathe it in copper to look like the original and you’re golden (literally, at least until it develops that green patina).  I can think of ways to make the steel beautiful from the inside as well.  Ponder sweeping arches supporting the roof peaks, graceful trusswork in the beams.  That’s where the new can fuse with the old without marring it.

    And as for the spire… steel is a GREAT material for tall things.  Make it 50% taller as a raised middle finger to the black-rock worshippers.

  28. The roof beams don’t show from the outside, and steel is a huge improvement over wood in all respects including flammability.

    Not in all respects, but some respects. Wood beams retain their support strength during a fire at a more predictable rate than steel. Wood may rot, but so does steel. Two hundred year old steel is a rarity, other than old weapons damaged by being buried, and my guess is no one will ever see a steel beam 800 years old, because they rust. Steel also loses strength when it ages, wood gets harder. Ever tried to hammer a nail into a 50 year old 2×4? By the way, 800 year old oak would not burn like that without an accelerant. It’s very dense.

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational

    Two hundred year old steel is a rarity
     
    Steel has this thing called "scrap value".  You can always make steel into new steel.  This is a much more involved process with wood.

    no one will ever see a steel beam 800 years old, because they rust.
     
    The Brooklyn Bridge is 136 years old and holding up nicely.  The Iron Bridge in Shropshire is 238 years old and doing quite well also.  These things will stay up as long as they're useful; you can find video of much newer bridges being dynamited because they've become obsolete.  I don't see Notre Dame becoming obsolete.

    Steel also loses strength when it ages
     
    Citation needed.  There are things such as precipitation-hardening alloys which change properties with age, but aside from fatigue and corrosion I know of no such behavior in conventional steel.

    wood gets harder. Ever tried to hammer a nail into a 50 year old 2×4?
     
    I've run Romex through century-old oak and maple floor joists.  It's hard, but it's also brittle.

    800 year old oak would not burn like that without an accelerant.
     
    You also have the 800-year-old roof boards below the metal sheathing, most less than an inch thick.  Once something got those lit, the reflected heat inside a closed attic would be enough to get the beams to char.  And they wouldn't even have to burn through; once deprived of the bracing provided by the smaller pieces between them, the beams would fall.

    The repair workers were supposedly patching eroded lead surfaces.  This means molten metal, meaning crucibles and fuel to heat them.  There's your accelerant.

    Wood beams retain their support strength during a fire at a more predictable rate than steel.
     
    This is why the redesign should eliminate combustibles, period.  If the outer surface is to be done over in lead, the support beneath it should be something like steel coated in porcelain (to eliminate electrolytic corrosion).  Imagine the whole thing done with the metal skinned in white and gold glass, so the inside glowed.  It would be beautiful.
  29. @Curmudgeon

    The roof beams don’t show from the outside, and steel is a huge improvement over wood in all respects including flammability.
     
    Not in all respects, but some respects. Wood beams retain their support strength during a fire at a more predictable rate than steel. Wood may rot, but so does steel. Two hundred year old steel is a rarity, other than old weapons damaged by being buried, and my guess is no one will ever see a steel beam 800 years old, because they rust. Steel also loses strength when it ages, wood gets harder. Ever tried to hammer a nail into a 50 year old 2x4? By the way, 800 year old oak would not burn like that without an accelerant. It's very dense.

    Two hundred year old steel is a rarity

    Steel has this thing called “scrap value”.  You can always make steel into new steel.  This is a much more involved process with wood.

    no one will ever see a steel beam 800 years old, because they rust.

    The Brooklyn Bridge is 136 years old and holding up nicely.  The Iron Bridge in Shropshire is 238 years old and doing quite well also.  These things will stay up as long as they’re useful; you can find video of much newer bridges being dynamited because they’ve become obsolete.  I don’t see Notre Dame becoming obsolete.

    Steel also loses strength when it ages

    Citation needed.  There are things such as precipitation-hardening alloys which change properties with age, but aside from fatigue and corrosion I know of no such behavior in conventional steel.

    wood gets harder. Ever tried to hammer a nail into a 50 year old 2×4?

    I’ve run Romex through century-old oak and maple floor joists.  It’s hard, but it’s also brittle.

    800 year old oak would not burn like that without an accelerant.

    You also have the 800-year-old roof boards below the metal sheathing, most less than an inch thick.  Once something got those lit, the reflected heat inside a closed attic would be enough to get the beams to char.  And they wouldn’t even have to burn through; once deprived of the bracing provided by the smaller pieces between them, the beams would fall.

    The repair workers were supposedly patching eroded lead surfaces.  This means molten metal, meaning crucibles and fuel to heat them.  There’s your accelerant.

    Wood beams retain their support strength during a fire at a more predictable rate than steel.

    This is why the redesign should eliminate combustibles, period.  If the outer surface is to be done over in lead, the support beneath it should be something like steel coated in porcelain (to eliminate electrolytic corrosion).  Imagine the whole thing done with the metal skinned in white and gold glass, so the inside glowed.  It would be beautiful.

  30. @NY Girl
    These idiot over-educated “historians” should shut their damn pieholes.

    The Catholic Church of France was begging for donations for much-needed repairs, and France did nothing. The Cathedral is the property of the RCC and if you think they’re gonna put a damn minaret on top, you’ve got another think coming.

    And as an aside: don’t even THINK about donating money until you know what they’re going to do with the restoration.

    In fact, the cathedral belongs to the French state, and the Catholic church is the only benefitiary in perpetuity:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notre-Dame_de_Paris#Ownership
    So, unfortunately, the French government can do to it pretty much what it wants, and seeing who is in power today we cannot expect anything good.

  31. Not letting a good crisis go to waste I’m sure (at the very least). I’ll bet the renovation will remind us of the Somewhat Masonic design themes seen in the Israeli Supreme Court building.

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