The Unz Review • An Alternative Media Selection$
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 BlogviewRon Unz Archive
American Pravda: Remembering the Liberty
President Lyndon Johnson and World War III?
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • B
Show CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeThanksLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Thanks, LOL, or Troll with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used three times during any eight hour period.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments

Concealing the Deliberate Israeli Attack

I’m not exactly sure when I first heard of the Liberty incident of 1967. The story was certainly a dramatic one, the attack upon an almost defenseless American intelligence ship by Israel’s air and naval forces late in the Six Day War fought against several Arab states. Over 200 American servicemen were killed or wounded by Israeli machine-guns, rockets, napalm, and torpedoes, representing our greatest naval loss of life since World War II. Only tremendous luck and the heroic actions of the sailors prevented the Liberty from being sunk with all hands lost.

The Israeli government quickly claimed that the attack had been accidental, a consequence of mistaken identification and the fog of war, but none of the survivors ever believed that story, nor did many of America’s top political and military leaders, notably Secretary of State Dean Rusk, CIA Director Richard Helms, and numerous top officers, including a later Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

Although a brief investigation ordered by President Lyndon Johnson quickly endorsed the Israeli account, over the next half-century the Liberty survivors regularly condemned that official verdict as a cover-up and a whitewash. Their deep outrage was only slightly assuaged by the flood of medals they had received from our guilt-ridden government, which established the Liberty as perhaps the most highly-decorated ship in American naval history, at least with regard to a single engagement.

The real-life events of that day almost seem like a script out of Hollywood. The first wave of unmarked attacking jets had targeted and destroyed all of the Liberty’s regular transmission antennas while also trying to jam all standard American broadcast frequencies to prevent any calls for help. A flotilla of torpedo boats later machine-gunned the life-rafts to ensure there would be no survivors. These relentless attacks lasted for more than an hour and completely perforated the vessel, with the sides and the decks being pitted by more than 800 holes larger than a man’s fist, including 100 rocket-hits that were six to eight inches wide, and a 40 foot hole below the waterline produced by a torpedo strike. Only a miracle kept the ship afloat.

But the desperate sailors braved constant enemy fire to jury-rig a single transmission antenna, allowing them to send out an urgent plea for help. Their SOS was finally received by our nearby Sixth Fleet, whose commanders immediately dispatched two waves of jet fighters to rescue the Liberty and drive off the attackers, only to have both flights recalled by order of America’s highest political leadership, which chose to abandon the Liberty and its crew to their fate. At the end, two large helicopters filled with commandos dressed in full battle gear and armed with assault weapons were preparing to board the Liberty, sweep its decks clear of any resistance, and sink it. But at that moment their headquarters apparently discovered that the ship had managed to report its plight to other American military forces, so the enemy broke off the attack and retreated. The first American assistance finally arrived seventeen hours after the first shots had been fired, as two destroyers reached the stricken vessel, which was still desperately trying to stay afloat.

This story combined so many elements of exceptional military heroism, political treachery, and success against all odds that if the Liberty had been attacked by any nation on earth except Israel, the inspirational events of June 8, 1967 might have become the basis for several big-budget, Oscar-nominated movies as well as a regular staple of television documentaries. Such a patriotic narrative would have provided very welcome relief from the concurrent military disaster our country was then facing in its Vietnam War debacle. But events involving serious misdeeds of the Jewish State are hardly viewed with great favor by the leading lights of our entertainment industry, and the story of the Liberty quickly vanished from sight so that today I doubt whether even one American in a hundred has ever heard of it.

 

Our news media has been almost as silent on the subject. In the immediate aftermath of the attack, there was naturally some coverage in our major newspapers and magazines, with several of the reports expressing considerable skepticism of the Israeli claims of having made an innocent mistake. But the Johnson Administration quickly imposed an extreme clampdown to suppress any challenges to the official story.

An American admiral soon met with all of the survivors in small groups, including the many dozens still hospitalized from their serious injuries, and he issued fearsome threats to those terrified young sailors, most of whom were still in their teens or early twenties. If any of them ever mentioned a word of what had happened—even to their mothers, fathers, or wives, let alone the media—they would immediately be court-martialed and end their lives in prison “or worse.”

With our journalists having great difficulty finding any eyewitnesses willing to talk and our government firmly declaring that the attack had been an unfortunate instance of accidental “friendly fire,” the newsmen quickly lost interest and the story faded from the headlines. Our government still remained so concerned about the smoldering embers of the incident that the surviving sailors were distributed across the other ships of our navy, apparently with efforts made to avoid having any of them serve together, which would have allowed them an opportunity to discuss the events they had barely survived.

The ensuing decade of the 1970s saw the Watergate Scandal unfold, culminating in the impeachment and resignation of a president, and numerous other sordid governmental scandals and abuses of power came to light in the years that followed, greatly eroding popular faith in the honesty of our government.

ORDER IT NOW

These changed circumstances helped provide an opening to James M. Ennes, Jr., one of the young surviving Liberty officers, who defied the threats of prosecution and imprisonment in order to reveal to the world what had happened. Working closely with many of his fellow survivors, he spent years preparing a powerful manuscript and was introduced to a major publishing house by star New York Times reporter Neil Sheehan, who had written one of the earliest news accounts of the attack. His book Assault on the Liberty was released in 1979, producing the first major crack in the continuing wall of silence. Admiral Thomas Moorer, former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, contributed a Foreword to a later edition, and the facts and gripping eyewitness testimony almost conclusively established that the Israeli attack had been entirely intentional. There were quite a number of favorable early reviews and interviews, leading to strong initial sales and further media coverage.

But organized pro-Israel groups soon counterattacked with a widespread campaign of suppression, working to prevent book sales and distribution while pressuring such influential television shows as ABC’s Good Morning America and CBS’s Sixty Minutes into canceling their planned segments. Successful books may sell tens of thousands of copies, but popular television programs reach tens of millions, so only a sliver of the American public ever learned the story of the Liberty. However, those who were politically aware and interested in the topic now had a solid reference source to cite and distribute, and the book also sparked the creation of the Liberty Veterans Association, which began to demand a reopening of the case and an honest investigation of what had happened that day.

 

The Israelis always claimed that the Liberty had been attacked because it was misidentified as a particular Egyptian naval vessel, and the official report of the American investigation had concurred. But Ennes’ book demolished that possibility.

(*) As America’s most advanced electronic surveillance ship, the Liberty had one of the most unique profiles in any navy, with its topside covered by an enormous array of different communications antennas, even including a 32-foot satellite-dish used to bounce signals off the Moon. By contrast, the Egyptian vessel was a decrepit old horse-transport just a fraction of the size, which was then rusting away in the port of Alexandria.

(*) By nearly all accounts, the air and naval forces deployed against the Liberty were completely unmarked, thus disguising their origins. None of the calls for help sent out mentioned the identity of the attackers, which the victims only discovered near the very end of the sustained engagement. If the Israeli forces had merely been striking against an assumed Egyptian military vessel, why would they have bothered to conceal their nationality?

(*) Despite repeated Israeli claims to the contrary, the Liberty had a large and very visible American flag flying at all times, and when the first one was shot down and destroyed early in the attack, an even larger Stars and Stripes was quickly hoisted as a replacement. The name of the ship was written in large English letters on its side, instead of the Arabic used by Egyptian vessels. The clear, bright weather that day provided perfect visibility.

(*) Israeli surveillance planes had repeatedly over-flown the Liberty all that morning, sometimes flying so low that the faces of the pilots could be seen, so the ship would have been easily identified.

(*) From the moment the attack began, Israeli electronic jamming had been employed to blanket all regular American communication channels, proving that the attackers knew the nationality of the ship they were targeting.

(*) The Israelis claimed that they initially assumed that the Liberty was a warship because it was traveling at a high speed of nearly 30 knots, but the ship’s speed during that entire period had merely been 5 knots, slower by a factor of six.

(*) The attack on the Liberty was a massive and coordinated action, lasting one to two hours, and involved waves of jet fighters, three torpedo boats, and a couple of large helicopters loaded with commandos. The initial strike destroyed all communications antennas in order to prevent the ship from calling for help, and later all the lifeboats were machine-gunned. The obvious goal was to sink the ship, leaving no survivors to report what had happened.

(*) After the attack ended, the Israelis steadfastly refused to admit any serious error on their part, with none of their commanders being prosecuted or even reprimanded, and instead placed the entire blame for the incident upon the Americans. Trophies from the Liberty attack still occupy a place of honor in Israel’s war museum. Financial compensation was only paid to the seriously wounded survivors after a long battle in American courts.

Confirming the Facts But Seeking a Motive

At the time, America was Israel’s primary international backer and ally, so the motive has always greatly puzzled observers—a deadly, unprovoked attack upon an American military vessel sailing in international waters, something which certainly constituted a major war-crime. Ennes had no clear answer to that question, and his carefully factual book closed with an Epilogue entitled “Why Did Israel Attack?” which provided a few pages of speculation. He suggested that the Israelis may have feared that the Liberty‘s electronic surveillance equipment might have revealed their plans to invade Syria and conquer the Golan Heights against American wishes, and indeed that attack occurred soon after the Liberty was crippled. The Syrian invasion was ordered by Israeli Defense Minister Moshe Dayan, and a declassified CIA intelligence report later claimed that Dayan had ordered the attack on the Liberty against the opposition of some of his generals. This explanation seemed somewhat plausible but far from solidly established.

ORDER IT NOW

With the Ennes book having blazed a trail, other authors gradually followed. As an electronic surveillance platform, the Liberty operated under the auspices of the NSA, an organization then so secret that its employees sometimes joked that the initials stood for “No Such Agency.” In 1982, those shrouds of mystery were finally pierced when journalist James Bamford published The Puzzle Palace, presenting the agency’s history and activities, which soon became a national bestseller and launched him on a career as one of America’s premier authors on national security matters.

From the very first, the NSA had been absolutely certain that the Israeli attack on the Liberty was deliberate, and the death or grievous injury of so many of its communication technicians and other employees together with an American cover-up deeply rankled the top leadership. So Bamford’s book included more than a dozen pages on the Liberty incident, revealing some of the secret intelligence evidence that had demonstrated Israel’s clear intent.

ORDER IT NOW

Two years later in 1984, foreign policy writer Stephen Green published a highly-regarded analysis of Israeli-American relations entitled Taking Sides, which drew glowing praise from former Sen. William Fulbright, who had chaired the Foreign Affairs Committee, international legal scholar Richard Falk of Princeton, and former Undersecretary of State George Ball. Green devoted his penultimate chapter to the Liberty incident, effectively summarizing the facts across those 30 pages and strongly endorsing most of Ennes’ conclusions, while providing additional evidence that the attack was deliberate, some of it based upon newly declassified documents. He also pointed out that if the operation had succeeded and the Liberty had been sunk with no survivors, America might have easily blamed Egypt for the attack, with major geopolitical consequences. Since the ship’s survival was little short of a miracle, that might have been the primary motive.

 

I was just a young child in 1967, and never heard a word about the attack at the time nor for long afterward. Even once the Ennes book appeared a dozen years later, I don’t remember seeing anything about it, nor was I aware of the accounts contained in the specialized volumes by Bamford and Green that soon followed. At some point, I think I did vaguely hear something about an American ship that had been accidentally attacked by Israel during the 1960s, but that was probably the limit of my knowledge.

In 1991 the subject finally did get some national attention in the aftermath of America’s victorious Gulf War against Saddam Hussein, as President George H.W. Bush became embroiled in a political battle with the Israeli government over the expansion of their illegal Jewish settlements in the Occupied West Bank and Gaza.

At that time, the Evans & Novak column by conservatives Rowland Evans and Robert Novak was among the most widely syndicated and influential in America, running in many hundreds of newspapers, and with Novak also having a large presence on the weekly political television shows. Their November 6, 1991 column dropped a major bombshell, reporting that radio transmissions proved the Israeli pilots had been fully aware that they were attacking an American ship and despite their frantic protestations had been ordered to go ahead and sink the Liberty regardless. These communications had been intercepted and decrypted by the intelligence staff at our Beirut Embassy, and the shocking transcripts were immediately provided to our ambassador, Dwight Porter, a highly esteemed diplomat, who had finally broken his self-imposed silence after 24 years. Moreover, these same facts were also confirmed by an American-born Israeli military officer who had been present at IDF headquarters that day, and who said that all the commanders there were sure that the ship being attacked was American. This may have been the first time I learned the true details of the 1967 incident, probably from one of Novak’s many television appearances.

Pro-Israel elements of the media and their numerous activist supporters immediately launched a fierce counter-attack, spearheaded by former New York Times Executive Editor Abe Rosenthal, a fervent partisan of Israel, who denounced the Evans & Novak column as biased, misinterpreted, and fraudulent. When I read Novak’s memoirs last year, he described how Israel’s partisans had spent many years pressuring newspapers into dropping his column, which substantially reduced its reach as the years went by. The columnists were punished for crossing red-lines, their future influence diminished, and other journalists were given a powerful warning message against ever doing anything similar.

ORDER IT NOW

The story of the Liberty and especially the subsequent decades of political and media battles surrounding the case soon became the focus of scholarly research, with John E. Bourne making it the subject of his 1993 doctoral dissertation in history at NYU, then publishing the work through a small press two years later under the title The USS Liberty: Dissenting History Vs. Official History. Bourne’s coverage seemed meticulous and scrupulously fair, breaking little new ground but gathering together and conveniently referencing a great deal of the underlying information, including the surprising success of the Liberty survivors in getting their account of the attack into the public arena despite the overwhelmingly greater political and financial resources of their determined opponents.

One important point emphasized by Bourne is that while the version of events provided by the Liberty crewmen has been almost completely consistent and unchanging from the first day, the Israeli government and its partisans had promoted numerous contrary narratives, most of them mutually contradictory, with pro-Israel advocates making absolutely no effort to reconcile these, and instead merely ignoring such severe discrepancies. This surely relates to the fact that although there can only be one true account of a historical event, invented falsehoods may diverge in a wide variety of different directions.

 

A couple of years later in 1995, the front page of the New York Times broke a seemingly unrelated story, which certainly captured my attention at the time. Our national newspaper of record revealed that during both the 1956 and 1967 wars, the Israeli military had brutally massacred large numbers of Egyptian POWs, with the evidence coming from the detailed research of Israeli military historians, eyewitness testimony including that of a retired Israeli general, and the discovery of mass graves in the Sinai desert.

ORDER IT NOW

Then in 2001, James Bamford published Body of Secrets, a much longer and more detailed sequel to his earlier history of the NSA, which once again became a national bestseller. This time the author devoted one of his longest chapters entitled “Blood” entirely to the story of the Liberty, and provided many new revelations. Among other things, he suggested that the ship had been targeted for destruction because the Israeli leadership feared that its extensive electronic surveillance equipment might record evidence of the enormous war-crimes they had then been committing along the neighboring coast, now believed to involve the execution of some 1,000 helpless Egyptian captives and local civilians, certainly one of the largest such atrocities committed by any Western army since World War II. This now provided an additional possible motive for the seemingly inexplicable Israeli attack.

Bamford’s book also contained an even more momentous disclosure. After 35 years of NSA silence, he revealed that the entire Liberty incident had been monitored in real-time by an American electronic spy plane cruising far overhead, which intercepted and rapidly translated all the radio communications between the attacking Israeli forces and their Tel Aviv controllers, information long regarded as “among NSA’s deepest secrets.” This helped explain why the senior leadership of the NSA had always been virtually unanimous that the attack was deliberate and intended to leave no survivors.

These intercepted conversations from the Israeli planes and torpedo boats had repeatedly mentioned seeing the Liberty‘s large American flag, putting the lie to decades of emphatic denials. In Washington, DC, the top leadership of the NSA had been outraged by this information, especially once they realized that the Johnson Administration intended to protect Israel from any embarrassment, and had even considered sinking the Liberty after the attack to prevent journalists from photographing the severe damage. Indeed, the Liberty was strangely ordered to sail to distant Malta rather than the much closer port in Crete, perhaps in hopes that the limping vessel with a large hole in its hull would sink along the way, thereby permanently hiding the visual evidence.

Bamford’s book also provided new information on the strange circumstances of the recall of two flights of carrier jets dispatched to rescue the Liberty during the attack, a development that had always been a source of puzzlement. The Liberty‘s senior intelligence officer revealed that he was later informed by the Sixth Fleet’s carrier admiral that the recall had been ordered by a direct phone call from Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara, with President Lyndon Johnson himself allegedly even getting on the line to demand that the order be obeyed and the Liberty left to its fate.

Bamford also noted that Israel’s brutal and unprovoked attack on the American ship was hardly inconsistent with that country’s other behavior. Not only had the Israelis been concurrently massacring so many hundreds of Egyptian POWs, but just a day or two earlier an Israeli tank column had attacked a convoy of unarmed UN peacekeepers flying their blue flag, brutally killing more than a dozen of them, while also blasting the local UN headquarters.

Bamford’s text ran more than 700 pages, with his discussion of the Liberty incident amounting to less than 10% of the total, but that chapter attracted a hugely disproportionate share of the press interest, with the New York Times even running a major news story on the important new evidence he provided. The book’s very favorable Times review also devoted quite a lot of space to his Liberty coverage, even though the reviewer strongly questioned the theory that the attack might have been motivated by Israel’s desire to conceal its concurrent war crimes. Although most such reviews were quite laudatory, the notoriously pro-Israel New Republic launched a fierce attack, authored by an American-born Israeli historian who had renounced his U.S. citizenship in order to enter Israeli government service, and I hardly considered it convincing at the time, even before I recently discovered Bamford’s very effective rebuttal.

Although I only read Bamford’s book itself a couple of years ago, I had seen the Times pieces and many of the other reviews when they originally appeared, and taken together all of this material further strengthened my conviction that the Liberty attack had been no accident.

Revealing the American Cover-Up After 40 Years

Up until this point, Israel’s partisans had mostly operated on defense, emphasizing the original verdict of accident issued by America’s official 1967 inquiry panel, while working to suppress the reach of books or articles that challenged this established position. Given this situation, Bourne’s thorough media research suggested that they probably believed that silence was the best strategy to follow. The longest piece actively promoting the accidental attack theory had been a 6,000 word article in the September 1984 issue of The Atlantic Monthly, possibly written in response to the Ennes or Green books. The two authors had been Israeli journalists who relied almost entirely upon Israeli sources, mostly official ones, and the piece was hardly likely to sway the growing number of skeptics.

ORDER IT NOW

But in 2002, A. Jay Cristol, a Jewish bankruptcy judge in Florida who had served nearly four decades in our naval reserves, released The Liberty Incident, arguing that the attack had been purely accidental. Cristol’s Preface emphasized his pro-Israel views and numerous Israeli friends, who encouraged and assisted this project, which he had begun some fifteen years earlier as an adult education masters thesis.

Although heavily promoted by Israel’s numerous partisans, who used the occasion to loudly declare “Case Closed,” I never heard of the book at the time, and was quite unimpressed when I recently read it, since it seemed to largely ignore or dismiss the mountain of evidence contrary to its thesis of Israeli innocence.

Indeed, the publication of Cristol’s book provoked a particularly important reaction. One of the individuals whom the author had favorably cited as “a man of integrity,” was retired Captain Ward Boston, Jr., the Navy attorney who had actually authored the official inquiry report in 1967. After having kept silent for nearly four decades, Boston was so outraged by Cristol’s analysis that he came forward and signed a legal affadivit revealing the true facts of the original investigation.

According to Boston, both he and his superior, Admiral Isaac C. Kidd, the presiding judge, had been absolutely convinced at the time that Israel had deliberately attacked the Liberty and murdered our sailors, but they had been ordered by their political and military superiors, including Admiral John S. McCain, Jr., father of the late senator, to absolve the Jewish State of any blame. Moreover, major elements of their written report were deleted or altered before release, in further efforts to conceal the clear evidence of Israel’s guilt. Considering that for over 35 years, Boston’s official handiwork had been cited as the primary bulwark supporting Israeli innocence, his signed January 9, 2004 affidavit constituted a very powerful declaration to the contrary. Aside from condemning Cristol as a fraud and a liar and reporting that Admiral Kidd believed the author “must be an Israeli agent,” Boston’s statement closed with the following paragraph:

Contrary to the misinformation presented by Cristol and others, it is important for the American people to know that it is clear that Israel is responsible for deliberately attacking an American ship and murdering American sailors, whose bereaved shipmates have lived with this egregious conclusion for many years.

 

A few years later, a major expose in the Chicago Tribune finally demolished the remaining shards of the decades-long cover-up. Written by a senior Tribune journalist who had previously won a Pulitzer Prize at the New York Times and drawing upon dozens of interviews and a large cache of official government documents newly declassified after four decades, the 5,400 word article was probably the longest piece on the Liberty incident ever to appear in the mainstream American news media. Much of the material presented was extremely damning, fully confirming crucial elements of previous accounts and demonstrating the extent of the ensuing cover-up.

Tony Hart, a former communications operator at a relay station remembers listening to the words of Secretary of Defense McNamara as he personally ordered the recall of the jets sent to rescue the Liberty: “President [Lyndon] Johnson is not going to go to war or embarrass an American ally over a few sailors.” This independently confirmed the account reported by a Liberty officer a few years earlier in Bamford’s book.

Aside from McNamara, nearly all the other senior members of the Johnson administration agreed with top intelligence advisor Clark Clifford that it was “inconceivable” that the attack had been a case of mistaken identity. NSA Director Lt. Gen. Marshall Carter later secretly testified to Congress that the attack “couldn’t be anything else but deliberate,” and numerous other former top national security officials provided similar statements to the Tribune, finally going on the record after forty years.

For decades, a crucial point of contention had been whether the Liberty was flying an American flag visible to the attacking Israeli forces. At the time, the Israeli court of inquiry had firmly declared that “Throughout the contact, no American or any other flag appeared on the ship.” As recently as 2003, the Jerusalem Post had interviewed the first Israeli pilot to attack, and he once again declared that he had circled the ship twice, slowing down and looking carefully, and “there was positively no flag.”

By contrast, declassified NSA documents stated that all the surviving crew members interviewed had uniformly agreed that their ship had been flying a large flag before, during, and after the attack, except for a brief period when it had been shot down, quickly replaced by their largest American flag, measuring 13 feet long.

NSA transcripts affirmed the claims of the Americans and proved that the Israelis were lying. As numerous sources had claimed over the years, the intercepted transmissions of the Israeli pilots had been immediately translated into English, with transcripts of their conversations rolling off the teletype machines at our intelligence offices around the world. These proved beyond any doubt that the pilots reported the ship was American and they had been ordered to sink it regardless, with the content of the transcripts confirmed by separate interviews with American intelligence specialists based in Nebraska, California, and Crete, while several other former American officials also confirmed the existence of those transcripts.

Five days later the Israeli Ambassador secretly warned his government that the Americans had “clear proof” that the attack had been deliberate. But according to a former CIA officer, the transcripts “were deep-sixed because the administration did not wish to embarrass the Israelis.” This official cover-up was partially circumvented by some shrewd intelligence officials who had those transcripts assigned for official training purposes at the U.S. Army’s intelligence school. W. Patrick Lang, who later spent eight years as Chief of Middle East intelligence for the DIA, vividly remembers seeing them in his coursework, and they left absolutely no doubt that the Israeli attack had been deliberate.

Although some tapes had been released, several of the personnel originally involved in recording and translating the transmissions agree that at least two of the key tapes have now gone missing or at least have not yet been declassified, and this is supported by gaps in the numbering of those that have been released.

ORDER IT NOW

A couple of years later in 2009, James Scott, a young, award-winning journalist and son of a Liberty survivor, published Attack on the Liberty, a book that seemed likely to become the final major account of the incident. Released by a prestigious mainstream press, the text ran more than 350 pages with copious notes and numerous photographs. When I read it six or seven years ago, I didn’t think it broke much new ground, but the work seemed to very effectively summarize all of the main material from more than four decades of research and debate, probably becoming that standard text on the topic.

A great deal of information is also now easily available on the Internet. Alison Weir runs If Americans Knew, an activist organization focused on the Israel-Palestine conflict, and a section of her website provides a convenient repository of numerous primary source documents regarding the U.S.S. Liberty incident. A U.S.S. Liberty Memorial website also provides considerable material on the event.

In recent years, our own Philip Giraldi, a former CIA officer, has become one of the most regular writers on the story of the Liberty, producing half a dozen articles focused directly on that topic:

  • Sinking Liberty
    Who will write the final chapter on Israel’s 1967 confrontation with the U.S. Navy?
    Philip Giraldi • The American Conservative • March 17, 2011 • 1,600 Words
  • The USS Liberty Must Not be Forgotten
    Forty-eight years is too long to wait for justice
    Philip Giraldi • The Unz Review • June 9, 2015 • 1,200 Words
  • Remembering the U.S.S. Liberty
    The power of the Israel Lobby
    Philip Giraldi • The Unz Review • June 14, 2016 • 1,600 Words
  • Remembering the U.S.S. Liberty
    The 50 year cover-up of a mass murder of U.S. servicemen orchestrated by Israel and its friends
    Philip Giraldi • The Unz Review • June 6, 2017 • 1,600 Words
  • The USS Liberty Wins One!
    The American Legion finally calls for a congressional inquiry
    Philip Giraldi • The Unz Review • September 5, 2017 • 2,300 Words
  • Israel’s War Crimes Have Killed Americans
    If the president loves to honor the military, start with the U.S.S. Liberty
    Philip Giraldi • The Unz Review • May 5, 2020 • 2,300 Words

President Lyndon Johnson and a Planned Attack on Egypt?

Over the last few years my understanding of many major historical events has undergone a radical transformation, but the Liberty incident was not among them. Since I first encountered the story almost thirty years ago, my views had merely solidified rather than changed in any significant respect. I’d immediately been persuaded that the attack was intentional, soon followed by a disgraceful American cover-up, and the three or four books I eventually read on the topic had merely filled in some blanks, while casting my original conclusions into solid concrete. The only remaining mystery was the Israeli motive for such an apparently reckless undertaking, and with three or four somewhat plausible possibilities having been suggested, there seemed to be no way of deciding between them. Not only did I regard the topic as closed, but I believed it had been closed for at least a decade or two. And that was my settled opinion until a month ago.

The story of a deadly Israeli attack upon America’s own military and a long and shameful cover-up naturally provoked all sorts of wild speculation from conspiracy-minded individuals, who regularly expounded the most bizarre ideas on the comment-threads of any article discussing the topic. A couple of years ago, I noticed a flurry of such chatter, including claims of a diabolical plot by President Johnson to treacherously arrange the attack on his own ship as an excuse for starting World War III, with the theory having apparently been promoted by some recently published book.

ORDER IT NOW

At first I paid no attention to such nonsense, but I eventually took a look at the Amazon page of Blood in the Water by Joan Mellen, an author entirely unknown to me, and was shocked to discover lavish praise by Prof. Richard Falk of Princeton, an eminent international legal scholar. Thinking that the theory might be less absurd than it seemed, I clicked a button, bought it, and suspended my disbelief during the two days it took me to read the text.

Unfortunately, the contents were almost exactly as I had originally assumed, filled with implausible speculations, unwarranted assertions, and huge leaps of logic. Unsubstantiated claims were endlessly repeated, apparently in hopes of bludgeoning the reader into eventual acceptance. And although the text was purportedly written by a tenured professor of English at a small university, the editing was among the worst of any professionally-published book I had ever encountered, with the same sentence—or even the same short paragraph—sometimes duplicated on consecutive pages; such severe stylistic flaws merely deepened my skepticism about the credibility of the substantive material presented. Prof. Falk was an esteemed scholar, but he had also been in his late 80s when the book was released, and I assumed that he hadn’t actually read the text apart from a few small extracts, while his outrage at a half-century of governmental injustice had secured his endorsement of such a poor quality expose. I felt that my time reading it had been wasted, and I became more firmly convinced than ever that the story of the Liberty was closed.

Then earlier this year I once more began seeing some chatter about a very similar theory regarding the Liberty, again advanced by an author totally unknown to me and presented in a book bearing an especially lurid title. I naturally dismissed such nonsense under the principle of “once bitten, twice shy.”

However, a month or two ago, I happened to be reading a work by Michael Collins Piper, a conspiracy-researcher who had earned my considerable respect, and in a couple of sentences he alluded to the book in question, greatly praising its “astonishing” findings. So I looked it up on Amazon and found that it had been released in 2003. A book published 18 years ago by a tiny press that made such wild charges but had never attracted any attention nor reviews was hardly likely to be very persuasive, but since I had some time on my hands, I ordered a copy and a few days later took a look.

ORDER IT NOW

I had never heard of Peter Hounam and a book entitled Operation Cyanide containing wild talk of World War III in the subtitle certainly multiplied my doubts, but the cover carried a glowing endorsement by the BBC World Affairs Editor, hardly the sort of individual likely to lend his name to crackpots. Moreover, according to the back flap, Hounam had spent thirty years in mainstream British journalism, including a long stint as Chief Investigative Journalist at the London Sunday Times, so he obviously possessed serious credentials.

A bit of casual Googling confirmed these facts and also revealed that in 1987 Hounam had led the Sunday Times team that broke the huge story of Israel’s nuclear weapons program, with the evidence provided by Israeli technician Mordechai Vanunu, just before he was kidnapped by Mossad, returned to Israel, and given a twenty year prison sentence. Hounam certainly had a much more impressive background than I had initally assumed.

The book itself was of moderate length, running perhaps 100,000 words, but quite professionally written. The author carefully distinguished between solid evidence and cautious speculation, while also weighing the credibility of the various individuals whom he had interviewed and the other material used to support his conclusions. He drew upon most of the same earlier sources with which I was already familiar, as well as a few others that were new to me, generally explaining how he reached his conclusions and why. The overall text struck me as having exactly the sort of solid workmanship that one might expect from someone who had spent three decades in British investigative journalism, including a position near the top of the profession.

As Hounam explained on the first page, he had been approached in 2000 by a British television producer, who recruited him for a project to uncover the truth of the attack on the Liberty, an incident then entirely unfamiliar to him. His research of the history occupied the next two years, and included travels throughout the United States and Israel to interview numerous key figures. The result was an hour-long BBC documentary Dead in the Water, eventually shown on British television, as well as the book he concurrently produced based upon all the research he had collected.

As I began the text, the first pages of the Introduction immediately captured my attention. In late 2002, with the book almost completed, Hounam was contacted by Jim Nanjo, a 65-year-old retired American pilot with an interesting story to tell. During the mid-1960s he had served in a squadron of strategic nuclear bombers based in California, always on alert for the command to attack the USSR in the event of war. On three separate occasions during that period, he and the other pilots had been scrambled into their cockpits on a full-war alert rather than a training exercise, sitting in the planes for hours while awaiting the signal to launch their nuclear attack. Each time, they only discovered the event that had triggered the red alert after they received the stand-down order and walked back to their base. Once it had been the JFK assassination and another time the North Korean seizure of the U.S.S. Pueblo, with the third incident being the 1967 attack upon the Liberty.

All of this made perfect sense, but when Hounam checked the pilot’s reported chronology, he discovered that the squadron had actually been put on full war-alert status at least an hour before the Liberty came under Israeli attack, an astonishing logical inconsistency if correct.

Memories may easily grow faulty after 35 years, but this strange anomaly was merely one of many that Hounam encountered during his exhaustive investigation and the facts that he uncovered gradually resolved themselves into the outline of a radically different reconstruction of historical events. Although more than half the book recounts the standard elements of the Liberty story that I had already read many times before, the other material was entirely new to me, never mentioned elsewhere.

President Johnson was a notorious micro-manager, very closely monitoring daily casualties in Vietnam, as well as the sudden new outbreak of war in the Middle East, and he always demanded to be told immediately of any important development. Yet when America’s most advanced spy ship with a crew of nearly 300 reported that it was under deadly attack by unknown enemy forces, he seems never to have been informed, at least according to the official White House logs. Instead, he supposedly spent the morning casually eating his favorite breakfast and then mostly engaging in domestic political chit-chat with various senators.

Declassified documents from the CIA, the NSA, and the Pentagon prove that red-alert messages had been sent to the White House Situation Room almost immediately, and American military policy is that any flash message reporting an attack on a U.S. naval vessel must be immediately passed to the president, even if he is asleep. Yet according to the official records, Johnson—wide awake and alert—received no notice until almost two hours later, after the assault on the Liberty had ended. Moreover, even when finally informed, he seemed to pay little attention to the most serious naval attack our country had suffered since World War II, instead focusing upon minor domestic political issues. Johnson did put in two calls to Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara, who according to naval logs minutes later ordered the recall of the carrier planes sent to rescue the Liberty, and Secretary of State Dean Rusk later stated that McNamara would never have made that decision without first discussing it with his president. But based upon the official records Johnson himself had not yet been informed that any attack had occurred.

Indeed, according to the later recollections of Rusk and top intelligence advisor Clark Clifford, during the morning Situation Room meeting two hours later, the Soviets were still believed responsible for the attack, and the participants had a sense that war might have already broken out. Although the Israeli identity of the attackers had been known for more than an hour, most of our top government leaders still seemed to be contemplating World War III with the USSR.

Hounam believes that these numerous, glaring discrepancies indicated the official logs had been altered in potentially very serious ways, apparently with the intent of insulating President Johnson from having learned of the attack and its crucial details until long after that had occurred. The author’s analysis of these severe chronological discrepancies seems quite meticulous to me, covering several pages, and should be carefully read by anyone interested in these highly suspicious events and the seemingly doctored record.

Hounam also focused upon several unexplained elements presented in the books by Ennes and others. There does seem solid if very fragmentary evidence that the Liberty‘s positioning off the Egyptian coast was part of some broader American strategic plan, whose still classified details remain largely obscure to us. Ennes’ book briefly mentioned that an American submarine had secretly joined the Liberty as it traveled to its destination, and had actually been present throughout the entire attack, with some of the sailors seeing its periscope. Although one of the crew had been privy to the classified details, he later refused to divulge them to Ennes when asked. According to some accounts, the sub had even used a periscope camera to take photographs of the attack, which various individuals later claimed to have seen. The official name for that secret submarine project was “Operation Cyanide,” which Hounam used for the title of his book. One heavily-redacted government document obtained by Hounam provides tantalizing clues as to why the Liberty had officially been sent to the coast, but anything more than that is speculation.

There were other strange anomalies. A senior NSA official had been strongly opposed to sending the Liberty into a potentially dangerous war-zone but had been overruled, while the ship’s request for a destroyer escort from the Sixth Fleet had been summarily refused. The day before the attack, top NSA and Pentagon officials had recognized the obvious peril to the ship, even receiving a CIA intelligence report that the Israelis planned to attack, and this led to several urgent messages being sent from Washington, ordering the captain to withdraw to a safe distance 100 miles from the coast; but through a bizarre and inexplicable series of repeated routing errors, none of those messages had ever been received. All of these seemingly coincidental decisions and mistakes had ensured that the Liberty was alone and defenseless in a highly vulnerable location, and that it remained there until the Israeli attack finally came.

Hounam also sketched out the broader geopolitical context to the events he described. Although originally open to friendly relations with America, Egyptian leader Gamal Nasser had been denied promised US assistance due to the pressure of our powerful Israel Lobby and was therefore pushed into the arms of the USSR, becoming a key regional ally, arming his military forces with Soviet weaponry and even allowing nuclear-capable Soviet strategic bombers to be based on his territory. As a consequence, Johnson became intensely hostile towards Nasser, regarding him as “another Castro” and seeking the overthrow of his regime. This was one of the major reasons his administration offered a green-light to Israel’s decision to launch the Six Day War.

In the opening hours of that conflict, Israel’s surprise attack had destroyed the bulk of the Egyptian and Syrian air forces on the ground, and these devastating losses soon led Nasser and other Arab leaders to publicly accuse the American military of having entered the war on Israel’s side, charges almost universally dismissed as ridiculous both by journalists at the time and by later historians. But Hounam’s detailed investigation uncovered considerable evidence that that Nasser’s claims may have been true, at least with regard to aerial reconnaissance and electronic communications.

According to the statements of former American airman Greg Reight, he and his aerial photo reconnaissance unit were secretly deployed to Israel, assisting the attack by determining enemy losses and helping to select subsequent targets. This personal account closely matched the details of the overall operation previously described in Green’s book almost two decades earlier. All these claims were supported by the extremely sharp photos of destroyed Egyptian airfields later released by Israel and published in American news magazines since experts agreed that the Israeli air force did not then possess any of the necessary camera equipment.

A successful Florida businessman named Joe Sorrels provided a very detailed account of how his American intelligence unit had been infiltrated into Egypt’s Sinai Peninsula before hostilities began and set up electronic monitoring and “spoofing” equipment, which may have played a crucial strategic role in enabling the sweeping Israeli victory. There were even claims that American electronic expertise helped locate the crucial gaps in the radar defenses of the Egyptian airfields that allowed Israel’s surprise attack to become so successful.

Hounam also emphasized the likely political motive behind Johnson’s possible decision to directly back Israel. By 1967 the Vietnam War was going badly, with mounting American losses and no victory in sight, and if this quagmire continued, the president’s reelection the following year might become very difficult. But if the Soviets suffered a humiliating setback in the Middle East, with their Egyptian and Syrian allies crushed by Israel, perhaps culminating in Nasser’s overthrow, that success might compensate for the problems in Southeast Asia, diverting public attention toward much more positive developments in a different region. Moreover, the influential Jewish groups that had once been among Johnson’s strongest supporters had lately become leading critics of the continuing Vietnam conflict; but since they were intensely pro-Israel, success in the Middle East might bring them back into the fold.

This provides the background for one of Hounam’s most controversial suggestions. He notes that in 1964, Johnson had persuaded Congress to pass the Tonkin Gulf Resolution by a near-unanimous vote, authorizing military strikes against North Vietnam, but based upon an alleged attack upon American destroyers that most historians now agree was fictional. Although the resulting Vietnam War eventually became highly unpopular, Johnson’s initial “retaliatory” airstrikes just three months before the 1964 election rallied the country around him and helped ensure his huge landslide reelection victory against Sen. Barry Goldwater. And according to Ephraim Evren, a top Israeli diplomat in the U.S., just a few days before the outbreak of the Six Day War Johnson met with him privately and emphasized the urgent need “to get Congress to pass another Tonkin resolution,” but this time with regard to the Middle East. An excuse for direct, successful American military intervention on Israel’s behalf would obviously have solved many of Johnson’s existing political problems, greatly boosting his otherwise difficult reelection prospects the following year.

We must always keep in mind that only a miracle kept the Liberty afloat, and if it had been sunk without survivors as expected, almost no one in American media or government would have dared accuse Israel of such an irrational act. Instead, as Stephen Green had first suggested in 1984, Egyptian forces would very likely have been blamed, producing powerful demands for immediate American retaliation, but probably on a vastly greater scale than the fictional Tonkin Gulf attack, which had inflicted no injuries.

Indeed, Hounam’s detailed investigation discovered strong evidence that a powerful American “retaliatory” strike against Egypt had already been put into motion from almost the moment that the Liberty was first attacked. Paul Nes then served as charge d’Affaires at the U.S. Embassy in Cairo, and in a taped interview he recalled receiving an urgent flash message alerting him that the Liberty had been attacked, presumably by Egyptian planes, and that bombers from an American carrier were already on their way to strike Cairo in retaliation. With an American-Egyptian war about to break out, Nes and his subordinates immediately began destroying all their important documents. But not long afterward, another flash message arrived, identifying the attackers as Israeli and saying that the air strike had been called off. According to some accounts, the American warplanes were just minutes from Egypt’s capital city when they were recalled.

Let us consider this. In a taped interview a former top American diplomat revealed that in 1967 America came very close—perhaps even within minutes—of attacking Egypt in retaliation for the Liberty. Surely a revelation of this magnitude from such a credible source might be expected to reach the front page of the New York Times and other leading world newspapers. But instead I had never heard a word about it during the past 18 years, and a little Googling suggests that it has received virtually no discussion anywhere, except within the most obscure fringes of the Internet.

Most of this seems like very solid factual material, and although the resulting interpretations may differ, I think the hypothesis advanced by Hounam is quite plausible. He suggested that President Johnson helped arrange the attack on the Liberty, hoping to orchestrate a new Tonkin Gulf Resolution but on a much grander scale, allowing him to attack and oust Nasser in retaliation. An American military assault against such an important regional Soviet ally would certainly have raised the risk of a much broader conflict, so our strategic bomber force had been put on full war-alert an hour or more before the Liberty incident unfolded. However, the Liberty and its crew of eyewitnesses somehow managed to stay afloat and survive, and eventually word that their attackers had been Israeli rather than Egyptian reached our top political and military leadership ranks, so the plan had to be abandoned.

Our mainstream media has spent decades scrupulously avoiding the slightest hint that the attack on the Liberty had been part of a broader plot to unseat Nasser, one that probably involved President Johnson. But as the testimony of several eyewitnesses above indicates, many of these facts would have been known at least to the circle of military men and intelligence operatives involved in the project. So we should not be entirely surprised that elements of the story gradually leaked out, though often in garbled, inaccurate, and disjointed fashion.

Indeed, the first substantial account claiming that the Liberty attack had been intentional rather than accidental appeared in the writings of independent journalist Anthony Pearson, who in 1976 published a couple of long articles in Penthouse, allegedly based upon British intelligence sources, and he later incorporated these into his 1978 book Conspiracy of Silence. His account lacked any references, was written in a breathlessly conspiratorial fashion, and contained a number of glaring errors, so it was hardly reliable and usually dismissed. But it did seem to also contain a good deal of material that was only later confirmed by more reliable research, demonstrating that he had access to some knowledgeable individuals. And in his account, Pearson claimed that the attack had been part of a much broader American plan to overthrow Nasser, which suggests such rumors were circulating among his sources.

Bourne’s very thorough research mentioned that similar claims suggesting that the Liberty fell victim to an American-Israeli plan to bring down Nasser had also appeared in two books on intelligence matters published in 1980, Richard Deacon’s The Israeli Secret Service and Stewart Steven’s The Spymasters of Israel. These accounts similarly provided no sources and since they appeared too early to make use of Ennes’ detailed narrative, contained numerous factual errors, but they do further suggest that such theories, whether correct or not, had become quite widespread within intelligence circles.

A Nuclear Strike Against Egypt?

If this were the extent of the historical hypothesis advanced in Hounam’s relatively short book, his work would certainly rank as a remarkable piece of investigative journalism, possibly overturning decades of assumptions about the Liberty incident, and perhaps uncovering one of the most shocking examples of government treachery in American history. But there are additional elements, and although they are far less solidly established, they should not be ignored.

Recollections can easily fade over more than three decades, but some memories remain indelible. Hounam provides a great deal of testimony indicating that the bombers dispatched to strike Egypt in retaliation for its assumed attack on the Liberty may have been armed with nuclear warheads.

Mike Ratigan, a catapult operator on board the U.S.S. America, recalls that his entire ship was put into “Condition November,” a top alert status only used in connection with armed nuclear warheads, and that the special bombs being loaded onto the A-4 Skyhawk bombers were unlike any he had previously seen, while also being escorted by Marine guards, another very unusual situation. There was a widespread belief on the ship that a nuclear attack was about to be launched. For obvious reasons, the Navy had absolute rules that bombers carrying armed nuclear warheads were prohibited from landing on carriers, and after the flight was dispatched and then recalled, the planes were all diverted to a land airbase to be off-loaded, not returning to their carrier for four or five days.

That same carrier had been hosting 28 journalists from British and American media outlets, and some of these individuals also had strong recollections. Jay Goralski, a U.S. reporter, remembered that the bombers were launched in a retaliatory strike against shore targets and that they were only recalled and the strike aborted “at the last moment, just before they would have lost radio contact.” A UPI reporter named Harry Stathos saw the nuclear-armed aircraft being launched, and was told by the deck crew that the strike was targeting Cairo, though he agreed at the time not to disclose any of this information.

Liberty survivor Chuck Rowley later spoke to a carrier pilot who claimed he had flown one of the jets that day, saying he had been carrying nuclear weapons and had been ordered to target Cairo. Other Liberty survivors heard similar stories over the years from naval personnel who described the special alert status that day, as nuclear warheads were armed and loaded onto the bombers preparing to launch. Moe Shafer had been transferred to the Sixth Fleet flagship for treatment of his injuries, and he claimed that the commanding admiral mentioned to him that several of his bombers had been three minutes away from a nuclear attack on Cairo when they were recalled.

Joe Meadors, another former Liberty crewman, later heard from military personnel on Crete their astonishment at having to unload the armed nuclear warheads of bombers that had been diverted there rather than allowed to directly return to the carrier, and they were told that the planes had been sent to strike Cairo in retaliation for the Liberty.

All of this evidence is merely circumstantial, with much of it amounting to hearsay, often reported second or third hand by ordinary servicemen rather than by trained journalists or researchers. But there does seem to be quite a lot of it. Hounam remains somewhat agnostic about whether Cairo had indeed been targeted for a nuclear attack in retaliation for the Liberty, but he does not believe that the possibility can be entirely disregarded.

We must also keep in mind that a nuclear strike against Cairo would not necessarily mean the destruction of the densely populated urban center. The author notes that a squadron of nuclear-capable Soviet strategic bombers were based at a West Cairo airfield far from the urban core, and their presence in the Middle East had aroused great American concerns. He speculates that their destruction in a nuclear attack might have been seen as a very potent demonstration of supreme American power across the entire region but without inflicting the massive casualties of a bombing closer to the center of the city. Admittedly, all of this is pure conjecture, and until additional documents are declassified and made available, we lack the necessary means of forming any solid conclusions.

It is a truism that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and while the hypothesis that America in 1967 came very close to launching a nuclear attack against Nasser’s Egypt certainly falls into the former category, the evidence that Hounam has accumulated does not come close to meeting the requirements of the latter. However, while a month ago I would have regarded such a theory as utterly preposterous lunacy, not warranting a moment’s thought, I now view it as a serious possibility worth considering.

 

The absolute and total blackout that seems to have immediately enveloped Hounam’s remarkable book hardly increased the likelihood that many new sources would come forward, but the accompanying BBC documentary Dead in the Water was released and aired, becoming the first and only professional media treatment of that important historical episode.

As was appropriate, the bulk of the film covered the basic elements of the Liberty story, though including the suggestion that the motive of the Israeli action had been to provoke an American attack against Egypt and even raising the possibility that the use of nuclear weapons might have been planned. However, any speculation that President Johnson had been involved in the plot was left on the cutting-room floor, and perhaps this was the correct decision to make. The first serious documentary on a highly controversial but almost ignored historical event should probably stick close to the basics and not overly challenge its previously uninformed audience.

Although the documentary was never broadcast on American television, the rights were eventually transferred to the Liberty Veterans Association, which for many years sold the videocassette. A version of adequate quality is now available on Youtube, so those interested in the story of the Liberty may watch it and decide for themselves.

There is also an intriguing backstory both to Hounam’s book and to the British documentary that had originally brought the author into the topic. The entire project apparently came about through the efforts of Richard Thompson, a former American Intelligence officer, who later became a highly successful international businessman. For years he had been a determined champion of the Liberty issue and the surviving crew members, and he organized and funded the film project, investing a total of \$700,000 of his own money to bring it to fruition. After the documentary was complete, Jewish groups in Britain went to court to block its release, forcing Thompson to spend \$200,000 in legal fees to overcome their challenge and allow the broadcast. And although Thompson’s name is not listed on the cover of the accompanying book, he seems to have played a major role in providing some of the underlying research and he shared the copyright with Hounam.

Thompson had regularly attended annual Liberty reunions, and at the 40th in 2007, he arranged to meet with Mark Glenn, a journalist for American Free Press, an alternative tabloid newsweekly, known for its willingness to cover controversial issues, including those portraying Israel in a negative light. Thompson claimed to have important new information about the backstory to the Liberty incident, facts that further extended Hounam’s findings, and he promised to provide the material to Glenn in a series of interviews. However, while driving home from Washington the following morning, Thompson died in a strange one-car accident, as his vehicle crossed the dividing meridian of the interstate highway and collided with a tree. Although aged 76, Thompson had seemed in perfect health and he had previously reported being stalked by individuals apparently connected to Israel, so Glenn found his death suspicious, as did Michael Collins Piper, a noted conspiracy-researcher. More of Thompson’s background was provided in a fairly lengthy obituary that appeared in the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs, a well-regarded and somewhat establishmentarian publication critical of Israel.

This possibly suspicious death was not the only one associated with the Liberty issue. Anthony Pearson’s articles in Penthouse and his subsequent book had been the first to claim that the Israeli attack was deliberate, and a few years later he began to complain of persecution by the Mossad; soon afterwards, he was dead, allegedly having been poisoned. Bourne’s research reported that a rather dubious individual involved in numerous unsuccessful attempts during the mid-1980s to raise funding for a film on the Liberty was found shot to death in his Pasadena home in 1988, though the motive for the unsolved homicide may have been entirely unconnected.

Means, Motive, and Opportunity

The especially controversial elements of the theories propounded in Hounam’s 2003 book probably precluded any discussion by most others writing on the Liberty incident, which is why the work never came to my attention until quite recently. In his comprehensive 2009 book, Scott thanked Thompson for having provided him with numerous out-takes from his Dead in the Water documentary, but neither Thompson’s name nor that of Hounam appeared anywhere else in the text, perhaps because such a reference might have alarmed the very mainstream publisher, Simon and Schuster. Hounam’s name also is nowhere to be found on Alison Weir’s website nor that of the U.S.S. Liberty memorial organization. Even individuals who had published several articles on the Liberty were completely unfamiliar with Hounam’s ground-breaking research when I queried them.

However during the last few years, this situation has begun to change. Mellen’s 2018 book had developed a theory quite similar to the one that Hounam had published fifteen years earlier, and she repeatedly referenced him. As I now reread her work, all the severe flaws I had previously noticed were still just as apparent, but I also recognized that she did provide a considerable amount of additional useful information, supplementing Hounam.

ORDER IT NOW

The previous year had been the 50th anniversary of the Liberty incident and noted conspiracy researcher Phillip F. Nelson had marked the occasion by releasing a far stronger book on the incident. The author fully acknowledged that he was closely following the trail blazed by Hounam, whose work he repeatedly characterized as “seminal.” Remember the Liberty! was written in association with several of the Liberty survivors and included a Foreword by highly-regarded former CIA analyst Ray McGovern.

Nelson was an especially harsh critic of Lyndon Johnson, probably best known for his 2010 and 2014 books marshaling the considerable evidence implicating LBJ in the assassination of his predecessor John F. Kennedy, and at certain points he seemed insufficiently cautious about accepting some of less solidly-attested accusations in the case of the Liberty. But the author does provide a great deal of important information on the president’s very difficult political situation in 1967, persuasively extending Hounam’s argument that a new Tonkin Gulf type event in the Middle East and a sweeping American military victory might have been crucial to Johnson’s prospects for reelection in 1968.

 

During the three generations since World War II, America has ranked as the world’s leading superpower, with its military possessing unmatched global reach and strength. Although the Liberty was a nearly defenseless intelligence ship sailing international waters, our powerful Sixth Fleet was nearby, so the deadly attack upon the vessel was not merely an obvious war-crime, but a very strange one, perhaps the most serious that our forces had suffered in decades, yet still entirely unpunished even today.

Solving such a crime usually involves a careful consideration of means, motive, and opportunity. There is no doubt that Israel’s military deliberately attacked our ship, but the other two legs of the tripod remain puzzling. The risks that Israel took in its unprovoked attack against the ship of its sole ally were enormous. And the opportunity to sink the Liberty only came about due to a long and very strange series of supposed American communication errors. But if we accept the framework proposed by Hounam, Nelson, Mellen, and their adherents and postulate the secret involvement of President Lyndon Johnson, both these difficulties immediately disappear.

Planning to sacrifice a few hundred American lives and risk World War III to bolster his reelection chances would obviously add a very black mark to the reputation of our 36th president. But based upon my extensive historical research, I do not think he would have been the first American leader to have followed this sort of callous political calculus, although such decisions were afterward concealed by later generations of historians. Indeed, a couple of years ago, I came to very similar conclusions regarding the primary architect behind the outbreak of World War II:

During the 1930s, John T. Flynn was one of America’s most influential progressive journalists, and although he had begun as a strong supporter of Roosevelt and his New Deal, he gradually became a sharp critic, concluding that FDR’s various governmental schemes had failed to revive the American economy. Then in 1937 a new economic collapse spiked unemployment back to the same levels as when the president had first entered office, confirming Flynn in his harsh verdict. And as I wrote last year:

Indeed, Flynn alleges that by late 1937, FDR had turned towards an aggressive foreign policy aimed at involving the country in a major foreign war, primarily because he believed that this was the only route out of his desperate economic and political box, a stratagem not unknown among national leaders throughout history. In his January 5, 1938 New Republic column, he alerted his disbelieving readers to the looming prospect of a large naval military build-up and warfare on the horizon after a top Roosevelt adviser had privately boasted to him that a large bout of “military Keynesianism” and a major war would cure the country’s seemingly insurmountable economic problems. At that time, war with Japan, possibly over Latin American interests, seemed the intended goal, but developing events in Europe soon persuaded FDR that fomenting a general war against Germany was the best course of action. Memoirs and other historical documents obtained by later researchers seem to generally support Flynn’s accusations by indicating that Roosevelt ordered his diplomats to exert enormous pressure upon both the British and Polish governments to avoid any negotiated settlement with Germany, thereby leading to the outbreak of World War II in 1939.

The last point is an important one since the confidential opinions of those closest to important historical events should be accorded considerable evidentiary weight. In a recent article John Wear mustered the numerous contemporaneous assessments that implicated FDR as a pivotal figure in orchestrating the world war by his constant pressure upon the British political leadership, a policy that he privately even admitted could mean his impeachment if revealed. Among other testimony, we have the statements of the Polish and British ambassadors to Washington and the American ambassador to London, who also passed along the concurring opinion of Prime Minister Chamberlain himself. Indeed, the German capture and publication of secret Polish diplomatic documents in 1939 had already revealed much of this information, and William Henry Chamberlin confirmed their authenticity in his 1950 book. But since the mainstream media never reported any of this information, these facts remain little known even today.

 

Postscript: Someone brought to my attention an outstanding four-part documentary series on the story of the Liberty directed by Matthew Skow that was released last year, based upon extensive interviews with the surviving crew members and having very high production values. The overall feature runs nearly five hours, with the last segment focusing primarily on the controversial issues raised in Hounam’s book. It’s available for purchase or rent, and I’d highly recommend it.

  • Sacrificing Liberty
    A Four Episode Docuseries
    Matthew Skow • TruHistory Films • 2000 • 4 hours 44 minutes

Related Reading:

 
The American Pravda Series
Hide 463 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
    []
  1. vox4non says:

    Old men play games, with bones of young men as dice.

    • Replies: @RoatanBill
    , @Ruckus
  2. Great article. Here is a similar incident with official lies so is misunderstood by the public:

    • Thanks: Sarah, Avery
  3. Anon62 says:

    By nearly all accounts, the air and naval forces deployed against the Liberty were completely unmarked, thus disguising their origins.

    This constitutes a violation of International Law of Armed Conflict also referred to as International Humanitarian Law:

    https://ijrcenter.org/international-humanitarian-law/

    The US Manual for Military Commissions (2007) states:

    “Lawful enemy combatant” means a person who is:
    (B) a member of a militia, volunteer corps, or organized resistance movement belonging to a State party engaged in such hostilities, which are under responsible command, wear a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance, carry their arms openly, and abide by the law of war;

    SOURCE:
    https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docs/v2_rul_rule3

  4. My only quibble is why this isn’t on the front page of The New York Times.

    • Replies: @Montefrío
    , @Avery
    , @Rex Kramer
  5. The USS Liberty slaughter attack by Zionist Apartheid Israel is a perfect analogy of why America today is useless in defending itself against real enemies both foreign and domestic. America’s real enemies have been undermining everything that made us great. It’s as if (((GlobalHomoZioBIGs3MIC+))) will never allow a world power on a scale as Nazi Germany to ever elect a great white patriot leader who loves his country and his white supporters.
    Trump may have been the last all American white patriot president to ever occupy the White House.
    And on that note,
    Stay strong,
    CQ

    • Replies: @brams
    , @Anonymous
  6. turtle says:

    Two things are beyond dispute:
    1. Machine gunning life rafts is a war crime, no matter who you claim to believe was in them.
    2. Lyndon Johnson allowed a vicious and murderous attack, which included the commission of war crimes, on an armed vessel of the U.S. Navy (a United States Ship) to go unpunished.

    In my view, that makes Lyndon B. Johnson a traitor to the United States of America, who, at minimum, should have been removed from office for violating the oath he took when he assumed that office.

    Oh, and whatever nuclear weapons were deployed, if any, should have been dropped on Tel Aviv. End of story. Any potential adversary needs to get the message: you F* with the U.S., you die, and so do the people who sent you. That is called deterrence.

  7. Great article, found some typos:

    – “once they realized that the Johnston Administration”
    – “A great deal of information is also now ceasily available”
    – ” later released by Israel and publishing in American news magazines since”

  8. JWalters says:

    Glad to see a solid article on this Israeli false history. We have Israeli false histories of

    1. the establishment of Israel
    2. the JFK assassination
    3. the USS Liberty attack
    4. the RFK assassination
    5. the 9/11 attack

    Given Israeli control of our corrupted corporate media monopoly, the list might also include prominent peace activist assassinations,

    6. the MLK assassination
    7. the John Lennon assassination

    Reasonably strong evidence would include false histories of

    8. the origin of WWII
    9. the German gas chambers

    The full true history the the COVID pandemic has yet to be revealed.

  9. Franz says:

    [Evans & Novak’s] November 6, 1991 column dropped a major bombshell, reporting that radio transmissions proved the Israeli pilots had been fully aware that they were attacking an American ship and despite their frantic protestations had been ordered to go ahead and sink the Liberty regardless.

    This explains the “explanation” of the Liberty story given in a 1994 book, The Secret War Against the Jews by John Loftus and Mark Aarons. The story on the attack in this book is probably the most convoluted, surreal, and insulting history ever written.

    “Liberty’s real task, Loftus and Aarons want us to believe, was to monitor the low-power, short-range radio transmissions of Israeli tanks and small infantry units in the desert. Those transmissions were then relayed by satellite to British intelligence teams in Cyprus who, using sophisticated voice print matching equipment, could identify and locate every Israeli unit in the war. British intelligence then relayed this vital information to the Egyptian government…”

    It gets more insane after that. The whole is written by James M. Ennes, author of Assault on the Liberty and worth reading just to see how lowdown and just plain dirty our “great ally in the Middle East” really is.

    • Replies: @Franz
    , @mulga mumblebrain
  10. SafeNow says:

    This is a superb essay, thank you. I had known only some of these facts, and learned much more. The in-your-faceness of the attack and coverup is outrageous. Given this, the truth about 911 takes on a heightened likelihood.

  11. Tdstype2 says:

    What is wrong with USA? Why does it keep electing genocidal psychopaths as POTUS?

  12. I was glad to hear that your “understanding of many major events has undergone a radical transformation”.The world sure could use more of that.Amen,mine as well. Thank you for another well considered update on the historical evolution of reality. Somehow,our “leaders,leadership” must be exposed… and brought to an end,Quickly. It appears to me to be getting worse rapidly,again.Soon,there may be no more false flags,as it seems Dr.Strangelove and Santa have all the weapons they need.Peace\$

    • Agree: Peripatetic Itch
  13. Serve them right, they trusted the kikes!

  14. JimDandy says:

    Terrific article. Hard to believe that not that long ago a mainstream media source like The Chicago Tribune could do an expose on the Liberty incident.

    • Agree: Peripatetic Itch
  15. Eagle Eye says:

    To summarize:

    1964 (August) – Gulf of Tonkin Incident based on fictional Vietnamese naval attack. Result: U.S. military involvement in Vietnam is stepped up.

    1967 (June) – USS Liberty Incident. Apparent attempt to simulate Egyptian naval attack.

    1968 (January) – USS Pueblo Incident. Excessively close approach to North Korean coast leads to vessel being boarded and seized by NorKs.

    1968 (November) – U.S. presidential elections, not contested by LBJ.

    • Replies: @Catdompanj
  16. I’ve known for a decade or more that the beast LBJ was behind or deeply involved in it. And my understanding from a film I saw about a decade ago is that Cairo was to be hit by atomic bombs, the American bombers were already flying across the Mediterranean Sea towards Cairo when the sad news came to LBJ that there were some Liberty survivors, so the bombers were called back.

    The Six Day War was naked aggression by Israel to expand its territory, in breach of the Armistice that had given it the Green Line, itself the result of aggression outside the UN Partition, itself only a UNGA recommendation.

    But, since Israel was at war with Egypt, the USA wanted to help. Israel. So the idea was that a US ship would sail close to Egypt, Israel would sink it at LBJ’s urging, Egypt would be blamed, a nice little Pearl Harbor allowing the US to make war on Egypt, nuke Cairo.

    Sadly, some Americans survived USS Liberty, so LBJ’s evil plan crashed.

    Is LBJ still in the Land of the Living? Time to string him up if so.

  17. It’s an intriguing thesis that Johnson may have been in on the planning of the Liberty incident instead of simply covering up for Israel retroactively (which is the simpler hypothesis, though perhaps too simple). But Roosevelt had nothing to do with the refusal of the Poles to deal over Danzig and the documents do not support this no matter how often they are misrepresented. The Poles refused to deal over Danzig because they saw that Hitler had just occupied Czechoslovakia in a deliberate violation of the Munich Agreement which had given Germany the Sudetenland under the assumption that the rest of Czechoslovakia would remain intact.

    The records of Jerzy Potocki as Polish ambassador to the United States show that he expressed a lot of suspicions of Roosevelt and the Jews who Potocki saw as controlling Roosevelt. But these records do not support the charge that Roosevelt was behind the refusal of Poland to bend over Danzig. Quite the contrary. They support the point that if Hitler had been less aggressive and merely allowed Czechoslovakia to remain independent then it is quite likely that the Poles might have compromised over Danzig in order to avoid a war. It was the occupation of Czechoslovakia which caused the Poles to refuse to bend over Danzig, while also leading Chamberlain to declare unilateral British support for Poland on the issue. Roosevelt had nothing to do with this.

    • Disagree: Dingo bay rum
    • Thanks: Traddles
    • Troll: L.K
    • Replies: @Dingo bay rum
  18. Chris Moore says: • Website

    I’m not exactly sure when I first heard of the Liberty incident of 1967. The story was certainly a dramatic one, the attack upon an almost defenseless American intelligence ship by Israel’s air and naval forces late in the Six Day War fought against several Arab states…

    Over 200 American servicemen were killed or wounded by Israeli machine-guns, rockets, napalm, and torpedos, representing our greatest naval loss of life since World War II. Only tremendous luck and the heroic actions of the sailors prevented the Liberty from being sunk with all hands lost…

    But the desperate sailors braved constant enemy fire to jury-rig a single transmission antenna, allowing them to send out an urgent plea for help. Their SOS was finally received by our nearby Sixth Fleet, whose commanders immediately dispatched two waves of jet fighters to rescue the Liberty and drive off the attackers, only to have both flights recalled by order of America’s highest political leadership, which chose to abandon the Liberty and its crew to their fate. At the end, two large helicopters filled with commandos dressed in full battle gear and armed with assault weapons were preparing to board the Liberty, sweep its decks clear of any resistance, and sink it. But at that moment their headquarters apparently discovered that the ship had managed to report its plight to other American military forces, so the enemy broke off the attack and retreated. The first American assistance finally arrived seventeen hours after the first shots had been fired, as two destroyers reached the stricken vessel, which was still desperately trying to stay afloat.

    The USS Liberty incident wasn’t the first time high-ranking US officials betrayed the nation for ((Jews)) (or rather, for their true loyalty, since LBJ always was a smug Zionist, and likely a self-certain Jewish-supremacist). And it certainly wouldn’t be the last (9/11 being another obvious example). But it was the most blatant, direct and indisputable act of treason by “US” leaders. And the lack of action from any large swath of the American public or officialdom certainly primed the pump for later (and ongoing) Zionist atrocities against Americans and the world.

    Remember, this was even before Zionists had concocted the entire framework of “Holocaust” propaganda used to fend off any criticisms of ((Jews)) and their evil works. Still, there was next to nothing in terms of retaliation or recrimination, proving that the US hierarchy and propaganda complex had been thoroughly infiltrated, even by 1967.

    Most of us alive now have known nothing but “American” scum nodding and winking at Zionist treason at the highest levels our entire existence.

    • Replies: @FHTEX
  19. This is a “block buster” film waiting to happen. The script could write itself, the facts are so solid & exciting.
    “Go Fund Me” comes to mind…..
    And, can we imagine the brouhaha that would ensure were it made well & released?
    There would be tribal palpatations at a minimum….

    • Agree: Marcion
    • LOL: rufus clyde
    • Replies: @fnn
  20. gotmituns says:

    I don’t know why one of lbj’s secret service guys didn’t kill him.

    • Replies: @Fred777
  21. Sarah says:

    Indeed, Flynn alleges that by late 1937, FDR had turned towards an aggressive foreign policy aimed at involving the country in a major foreign war, primarily because he believed that this was the only route out of his desperate economic and political box, a stratagem not unknown among national leaders throughout history.

    This was the case during the French Revolution; quote from site herodote.net:

    To guarantee itself against the anger of the Parisian population, … Thus, the first French Republic was confronted with foreign war on all fronts, with the emigration of aristocratic cadres, with internal revolt (Brittany, Vendée, Midi, Corsica) and external revolt (rebellion in Saint-Domingue) and with economic bankruptcy.

    In 1792, the revolutionary government declared “La Patrie en danger” (The Fatherland in danger) and embarked on a foreign war to divert the attention of the people from the internal problems caused by the government itself.

    • Agree: Alden
  22. big daddy says:

    Fabulous!!!! Will people ever learn that government is total evil? Cultural libertarianism-God; Family; Freedom-is all our species need aspire to. And all our species can handle. Read Moby Dick.

  23. The overall story is convincing, but this detail is questionable:

    Moe Shafer had been transferred to the Sixth Fleet flagship for treatment of his injuries, and he claimed that the commanding admiral mentioned to him that several of his bombers had been three minutes away from a nuclear attack on Cairo when they were recalled.

    This claim is found in many places on the internet. But Cairo is 100 miles from the coast, and so bombers three minutes from Cairo would have been in Egyptian airspace, visible on Egyptian radar and vulnerable to Egyptian attack. Perhaps the Egyptian radar and anti-aircraft defenses had already been destroyed by the Israelis. It is also possible that the Admiral was exaggerating, and the planes were, say, thirty minutes away from Cairo when they were recalled.

    • Replies: @utu
  24. GMC says:

    “Comander and Chief” – what a murderous joke for the miltary and the populace to get stuck with. Taking out Israel should have been switched from Vietnam – even Russia would have been better off with Israel Gone or at least put in its place.

  25. Hey…Lyndon was distracted by the blow-job Matilda Krim was giving him in the Oval Office at the time of the attack……What’s a guy suppose to do? Certainly this was way more important than the lives of those Native White American Working Class Christian Youts serving aboard the USS Liberty…I think every one here ought to get their priorities straight…

    • Replies: @old one
  26. fnn says:
    @animalogic

    There’s a better chance of getting it produced than ever before-if you can get the Chinese to fund it.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  27. The only Americans who benefit from the US being unequally yoked to the (((underminers))) are those being paid and paid off.

  28. Anonymous[136] • Disclaimer says:

    The Liberty story has been hidden from view for all the wrong reasons.

    The Statue of Liberty, which was a gift to the US from France and which has graced the New York Harbor since 1886, is clearly no longer consistent with the values currently espoused by the United States and should therefore be dismantled and shipped back to France.

    Will America be taken over by Israel, clearly it already has!

    https://rabbimcgoyim.locals.com/post/1185487/pathogenic-subjugation

  29. Anon[259] • Disclaimer says:

    …. A flotilla of torpedo boats later machine-gunned the life-rafts to ensure there would be no survivors.…..

    War crimes have no statute of limitations

    • Replies: @geokat62
  30. Ginko says:
    @Tdstype2

    Unfortunately, “We” the people don’t control the electoral system. Ballots laws were passed by both parties after the populist revolts of the 19th century and mass media/bernaysian propaganda have been used to cement the power of the American oligarchy since then. I have no ideal how this can be fixed

    • Replies: @anarchyst
  31. BuelahMan says:

    If one exchanged the word “jew” and “jews” for “Israel” and “Israeli” there would be absolutely no difference in the article. But one might be hesitant to do so, if they were jewish.

  32. The details of machine-gunning the sailors in the life rafts and massacring the Egyptian prisoners of war mark the operation as characteristically Zionist: in the first place, the law of war does not apply to Jews, and in the second place, the lives of goyim are of no value, since goyim are not really human.

    • Agree: mulga mumblebrain
    • Replies: @beavertales
  33. Anonymous[661] • Disclaimer says:

    Thank you! Excellent and informative article.

  34. bomag says:
    @Tdstype2

    Same reason why thugs flourish in the ghetto.

  35. Thanks for this excellent account, Ron Unz, and your American Pravda series.

    The cold-blooded treason of Lyndon Baines Johnson …
    His continuance in power thereafter, not a squeak from anybody …

    “All the Way with LBJ”
    Still sung in Tel Aviv today.

  36. @vox4non

    Old men play games, with bones of stupid young men as dice.

    FIFY

    • Replies: @_dude
    , @Maddaugh
    , @Rev. Spooner
  37. anonymous[262] • Disclaimer says:

    Sop to Cerberus, RU?

  38. geokat62 says:

    Their deep outrage was only slightly assuaged by the flood of medals they had received from our guilt-ridden government…

    Slightly assuaged? You clearly haven’t had the opportunity to view the riveting four episode docuseries, Sacrificing Liberty, produced by TruHistory.

    Description;

    The true story of the USS. Liberty is more shocking than any spy novel written by Tom Clancy. The most top-secret spy ship in the world. Its client was the NSA. The ship and its 294 U.S. Navy sailors were rushed to the Mediterranean Sea. Only the White House and Pentagon knew that Israel was ready to attack Arab nations. The USS. Liberty was deliberately sent into a kill zone. The casualties were staggering: 34 killed and 174 wounded. The coverup began immediately and has continued since 1967. Until now! The aging survivors have finally told their true story. Sacrificing Liberty sets the record straight.

    https://www.sacrificingliberty.com

    Despite the passage of nearly five decades, the aging survivors are clearly still deeply outraged, despite being “flooded with medals.”

    • Thanks: Mevashir, Sarah, John Wear
    • Replies: @Mevashir
  39. _dude says:
    @RoatanBill

    This seems a bit unfair and blockheaded. We all gain wisdom and insight at a different pace and to some extent are bounded by our parents’ capacities. Did you make no mistakes in your youth?

    • Replies: @RoatanBill
  40. utu says:
    @James N. Kennett

    A-4 Skyhawk top speed is 670 mph. 100 km in about 6 min.

  41. geokat62 says:

    At the time, Israel was America’s primary international backer and ally, so the motive has always greatly puzzled observers… Ennes had no clear answer to that question…

    Norman Finkelstein’s hypothesis as to the motivations behind the attack on the USS Liberty in 1967, excerpt from, Norman Finkelstein, de-mythologizing the 1967 war; in conversation with Phil Weiss and James North:

    My own hypothesis is, this is Israel’s big moment, the climactic of the Jewish people, a collective paroxysm-cum-orgasm. All the armed services want to get a piece of the action. The air force, the army, the navy.

    The navy hadn’t yet seen real combat. As the war was winding down, they were probably anxious to be part of this glorious chapter. To play their part in the Jewish people’s revenge on the goyim.

    Remember, the Israelis don’t just hate Arabs. They’re in an eternal war with all the goyim. All the goyim wanted the Jews dead…Fuck the Americans! Fuck the goyim! Long live the Jews!…

    [T]he Israeli navy… got to share in the mock heroics and avenge the millennial suffering of the Jews. Everyone got their 15 minutes of drawing blood, in memoriam of the Jewish martyrs.

    https://www.unz.com/nfinkelstein/to-live-or-to-perish/

    • Replies: @RobinG
    , @mulga mumblebrain
  42. geokat62 says:

    Pro-Israel elements of the media and their numerous activist supporters immediately launched a fierce counter-attack…

    Pro-Israel elements? Don’t you mean traitorous enemies of the American people?

  43. Maddaugh says:
    @RoatanBill

    Old men play games, with bones of stupid young men as dice.

    That’s right, and there is no shortage of young men, willing to sacrifice themselves for a pat on the head from the ruling class. Of course, said ruling class never put their own kids on the chopping block. We saw it once again in this Afghan fiasco. There is always a reliable inventory of suckers.

    Young men take note. Yes, defend the homeland but when asked to go overseas refuse. Far from being thanked you will be shit on, given a cheap medal with a ribbon (made in China) and sent packing.

    You will be expected to be happy and of course invisible with a miserly stipend, your PTSD and missing body parts. Its the old saw. If you join the game and dont know who the cunt is, then the cunt is YOU.

    • Agree: RoatanBill
    • Replies: @Realist
  44. anarchyst says:

    israeli hasbara shill sean hannity denied that the attack on the USS Liberty (AGTR-5) ever took place.
    I never had a liking for hannity with his false patriotism and “rah-rah” attitude over sending American troops into harms way for israel’s benefit.
    Listening to his radio show one afternoon while driving home from work, (not much else on at the time) a caller asked hannity about the deliberate israeli attack on the USS Liberty (AGTR-5) on 8 June 1967. Hannity abruptly cut off the caller and replied (verbatim) that “israel is our friend and would never have done such a thing”. I damn near ran off the road when I heard THAT.
    That was the absolute end of any respect that I had for hannity. As far as I am concerned, he should lose his USA citizenship and be forcibly deported to israel. ((They)) can have him…

  45. anarchyst says:
    @Ginko

    I must disagree with your assessment that the electoral system preserves the oligarchical system that we live under today.
    Abolishing the electoral system would actually concentrate power in the major population centers much more easily than the present electoral college system.
    The electoral college system forces presidential candidates to campaign in all 50 states. Without this system, New York City, Los Angeles, Chicago and Atlanta metropolitan areas would be enough to “swing” an election. Presidential candidates could ignore the rest of the country. The electoral system is a “equalizer” that for all practical purposes, DOES work.
    In fact, I would like to see the electoral system adopted for state gubernatorial and federal house of representative and senatorial candidates. As it stands now, the major population centers determine the results of state elections…
    Regards,


  46. Last April, Brian R. Wright reviewed Sacrificing Liberty: The day the world was six minutes from WW3

    Matt Skow interviewed survivors of the attack on the Liberty, giving them the first opportunity in 53 years to tell their story.

    American popular culture has been defined by Exodus, then Holocaust, and Roots
    Skow’s 4-hour masterpiece should be the next new generational definer of America’s understanding of how the world works.

    Sacrificing Liberty SHOULD be on national TV over the holidays, but you can purchase or rent the DVD —

    https://www.trunews.com/stream/sacrificing-liberty-would-israel-sink-u-s-warship-in-strait-of-hormuz-and-blame-iran

    {great minds, Geokat62; you beat me to the goal)

    • Thanks: geokat62, Sarah, John Wear
  47. anonymous[262] • Disclaimer says:
    @fnn

    The Chinese funded Emmerich’s ‘Midway,’ because of the Billy Mitchell angle. Just rewrite the Liberty script with Chinese naval ships coming to the rescue (in real life it was Soviet naval vessels who were first on the scene, from what I’ve read), and they’ll be happy to greenlight it. Maybe throw in a scene where LBJ’s Chinese chef and food taster, after LBJ orders the fighters to return to their carriers, quietly tells the “president, “but Sire, these are your countrymen being killed.” Scene fades on LBJ’s face of stone.

    ‘The Liberty & the Dragon’ could be working title. Alter history and at the outset show the USS Liberty being built in Shanghai, and blessed by a little Chinese girl. As the attack begins, one of the crewmen who will become a hero reads a fortune cookie his girlfriend his in his kit, which says ‘To All Men Come Great Moments.’

    Make it Alt History. Change Israel to Genghis Khan’s merciless forces and you’re set.

    • Thanks: W
  48. Yee says:

    If it was plotted by the US, then it’s unfair for Israel to take the blame.

    I suspect 911 was a successful Liberty – plotted by the US, worked by Israel.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  49. SafeNow says:
    @Tdstype2

    What is wrong with USA? Why does it keep electing genocidal psychopaths as POTUS?

    The U.S. embraces “the con style.” And this predilection is not confined to POTUS. Cuomo’s astronomical 82% approval rating. Fauci. Examples abound. Of course, I have only begged the question; WHY does the U.S. embrace the con-style? And what could be done about it? Perhaps some essayist could tackle this subject. This style could be the end of us, in many ways, including a world war.

  50. Mevashir says:

    OPEN NOTE TO RON UNZ

    Dear Ron,

    I’ve been very critical towards you in some of my comments. I apologize for impugning your motives in operating this website. I will try to judge you more favorably and recognize the blessings this site brings to me and to so many others.

    It’s like a yeshiva academy for the Alt-Right. Maybe we can call it a Reshiva?! It’s a place where all ideas can be explored and any opinion can be voiced. Most of the commenters are thoughtful and articulate. We are all fortunate that you have created this site.

    I live in a college town in Colorado with a lot of veterans as well. But I cannot have a serious intellectual conversation with anyone. The Unz Review is my only opportunity to explore serious matters of life and death importance. It’s become my alternative reality community, for better or worse (and often I think maybe it’s actually for worse).

    I shall pray for your health and safety, especially from various Deep State and Internationalist Actors who no doubt resent the candor you allow to be voiced here.

    GOD BLESS YOU! – Sincerely, Menachem Mevashir

  51. Fred777 says:
    @gotmituns

    What, and lose his government pension?

    • Agree: northeast
  52. jsinton says:

    I’ll never forget in 1984 Jean Kirkpatrick telling me and a handful of others in a private meeting that “It’s a game of chess”. What she meant was that they played “chess” with the Soviets and not “thermonuclear obliteration chicken”

    Likewise with the Liberty incident. The object of the game was not WW III. It was a chess move to throw the Soviets out of Egypt and control Africa. Egypt of 1967 was the security linchpin of Africa and was firmly held by the Soviets. Johnson tried to sink the Liberty by ordering the Israelis to do it with the intention of blaming the Egyptians, thereby creating a pretext to join the 6 Day War and invade Egypt along with Israel. Egypt was already smashed militarily by that particular day. It would have been a simple matter to clear out the Russians. A 1967 Russia would not start WW III since they were strategically weaker and unprepared. The US would then control Africa, and Israel would be secure. Checkmate.

    Unfortunately (?), the Liberty did not sink and the plan went south to become a political damage control operation.

  53. @Ann Nonny Mouse

    Hell no, he’s been dead for a long time. But the USA took a lot of wrong turns under his watch. Hart-Cellar, anti-white Civil rights, War on Poverty welfare, escalation in Vietnam. Not to mention that he was in such a hurry to get in the President seat that he had himself sworn in on Kennedy’s Catholic Missle on Air Force One. He can rot in hell for all I care.

    Thank you, Ron Unz, for this article and webzine.

    • Replies: @Montefrío
  54. Mevashir says:
    @geokat62

    Dave Gahary a Navy veteran has written a book about the Liberty:

  55. geokat62 says:
    @Anon

    War crimes have no statute of limitations

    In fact, not one but three war crimes were committed in the massacre against the USS Liberty:

    1. attacking a neutral vessel in neutral waters

    2. the Mysteres released their payloads of napalm over the ship and strafed it with their cannons.

    3. torpedo boats fired at damage control parties and sailors preparing life rafts

    • Agree: Mevashir
    • Replies: @Mevashir
  56. Mevashir says:
    @geokat62

    attacking a neutral vessel in neutral waters

    I believe the Israelis paid significant financial compensation to the survivors. What further actions should be taken?

    The Israelis claimed that the vessel was NOT neutral but was there to tip off the Egyptians about Israeli military deployments and intentions.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @geokat62
    , @Alden
  57. @_dude

    Of course I made mistakes. For a while I ignored gov’t and had no feelings about it one way or another. I wasn’t really aware it existed except in a distant sense. That was a mistake. It wasn’t till the Fed Gov decided to draft me for Vietnam that gov’t got my attention. Even as an atheist I knew it was wrong to murder people I had no quarrel with and therefore I told Uncle Sam to pound sand and refused induction and alternate service since I’m also against slavery.

    That cost me 3 years of grief but I never murdered anyone and awakened to the human filth that occupies the military and the political class. I’ve been an anarchist ever since.

    Now, the good christians that form the bulk of the infestation in the US military apparently have no qualms about killing people all over the planet, and this after numerous examples of US lies and deceptions concerning world events.

    I’d say the blockheads are the patriots and nationalists that condone the death and destruction done by all the human filth that carries a weapon for any gov’t.

    • Agree: Bro43rd, acementhead
    • Replies: @Pascal
  58. gT says:

    It is the duty of all American soldiers to die for Israel, and yet they complain so much when called upon to do their duty, they took their 30 pieces of silver already. They even complain when they were withdrawn from Afghanistan, like they have any say in the matter.

  59. Sarah says:

    The doctrine of use of the atomic bomb by China, France, North-Korea, Russia etc. is disuasion. It serves them to deter a potential enemy from attacking them.

    …a catapult operator on board the U.S.S. America, recalls that his entire ship was put into “Condition November,” a top alert status only used in connection with armed nuclear warheads, and that the special bombs being loaded onto the A-4 Skyhawk bombers were unlike any he had previously seen, while also being escorted by Marine guards, another very unusual situation.

    …heard from military personnel on Crete their astonishment at having to unload the armed nuclear warheads of bombers that had been diverted there rather than allowed to directly return to the carrier..

    It is quite plausible, because there are precedents on the US side:
    – The US is the only power that has used atomic weapons so far in history (against civilians, moreover).
    – General McArthur, commanding the troops during the Korean “War”, wanted to use atomic bombs against China. The US President refused.
    – High ranking US politicians do not hesitate to consider a “preventive” nuclear strike against China and Russia, under the pretext of a supposed threat from these countries.

    Questions :
    – WHO is threatening the others ?
    – WHO is ready to destroy the Earth in an atomic war ?

  60. NickP says:

    I was told personally by a director of NSA that he was absolutely certain that the attack on the Liberty was deliberate and premeditated.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  61. A tour de force, Mr. Unz. Your next magnum opus will no doubt link Israel to the rise and fall of LBJ.

    Robert Caro went to great pains to downplay LBJ’s connection to the assassination of JFK, despite writing thousands of pages that painted LBJ as a hyper-ambitious sociopath backed by a Texas cabal that profited immensely from the death of JFK. I’m too lazy to do the research, but there has to be a link between Brown & Root and Tel Aviv somewhere in evidence. If Kellog, Dresser, or Halliburton are in the mix, you have all sorts of links to America’s royalty. The possibilities are endless.

  62. Anonymous[416] • Disclaimer says:

    The risks that Israel took in its unprovoked attack against the ship of its sole ally were enormous.

    As we can see, the risks were minimal. Even a completely clusterfucked operation resulted in no adverse consequences for the Tribe. That’s how much control they have over its hosts. This is important to keep in mind when contemplating their other projects like 9/11 or White Genocide. Many people still refuse to believe that the Tribe would “dare” to “risk it” despite all the evidence staring them in the face.

    That said, getting away with it carries its own curse. Consistently unpunished mistakes lead to more mistakes which breed chronic incompetence and that, eventually, results in one massive mega-punishment. At the end of the day, they’ll end up not getting away with it at all.

  63. Outstanding. You are at the top of your form Ron. As you rightly point out some possibilities need more weighty evidence to move them up far on the probability scale. Let’s hope letters and diary notes will be found to flesh out the details. Is there not more to come from family and friends of Macnamara? And maybe the personal penumbra of many diplomats, publis servants and military people?

  64. @NickP

    It still leaves the puzzle of motive for such a monstrous crime though several are – just – believable.

    When I say “monstrous” I am accepting that there is little doubt that the whole crew was to be killed.

    One little niggle is that I wonder if it is clear that there were unmarked Israeli planes. Why? How? Markings painted over that day? What about the risk of their being recognised as Israeli [Mysteres or whatever known to be Israeli] while radio communications were still working?

  65. Yevardian says:

    @Ron Unz

    I know you only alluded to this point near the end of your article, whilst also disclaiming the murky nature of the evidence (Benny Morris wrote quite well on the extremely labial and unreliable nature of ‘oral history’/recollections, and why he doesn’t use them), but the given explanation for the Liberty Attack itself begs explanation.

    One of the key books you referenced in previous article, Steven Green’s “Taking Sides”, goes to some length in demonstrating to what degree the Israeli military superiority was over Syria, Jordan and Egypt combined, whilst also detailing American awareness of this fact.

    Egyptian performance during the 6 Day War, in particular, was disastrous from the very opening of the conflict, provoking any sort of American ‘intervention’ against an already prostrate country (whilst the country was embroiled in Vietnam, no less) seems extremely unlucky, to say nothing of nuclear weapons. If MacArthur was forbidden from using nuclear weapons in Korea (even as hardwon NATO gains were being rolled back by massive Chinese intervention), why would they then be later used over the attack of a single reconnaissance ship?

    How could it be in Israel’s interest for the Americans to intervene directly in Egypt anyway? Nasser was already doing a good job of ruining the country economy himself, and without oil, the expulsion or emigration of its middle-class (Armenians, Greeks, Copts) and an exploding population, it has ever since been dependent of foreign aid merely to support itself.
    Rather than turn the place into a desert (as in Iraq, later Syria, as the Assad dynasty proved itself rarely competent and had to be destroyed), it was much more in Israel’s interest to subject Egypt an an economic protectorate and ‘moderating’ influence in the Arab world, which in fact happened, particularly after the Yom Kippur war. In practice, Israel afterward only really lost the new settlement of Yamit (which Begin purposely evacuated in the most violent manner possible, to stir public outrage, a trick Sharon later repeated in Gaza), and Israel even retains the right to conduct military exercises in the Sinai.

    Otherwise, Israel destroying the USS Liberty in order to blame it on Egypt is perfectly reasonable, it has always been the obvious explanation. But the idea Israel planned this in hopes of provoking the American military against Egypt, or even a nuclear strike, seems to me totally sensationalist and ridiculous.

    I would suggest there would be more interest to be had in investigating American/Israeli involvement the so-called “Arab Spring”, particularly Morsi’s Egypt, which seemed teetering on the verge of civil war for a period, now that the dust has somewhat cleared.

    • Replies: @utu
  66. @Mevashir

    Which Israelis claim that? It certainly can’t be official.

    And it is absurd if, as seems certain, the Israelis got the go ahead for their attacks from the US before launching them.

  67. HT says:

    This incident was an early indicator that making Israel America’s golden calf was going to be a disaster for America. Now we are hated in the Middle East as much as the Jews because we are their protector. WWII and what happened afterward has caused the decline and eventual destruction of the West. The Jew cultural Marxists are now running our country and it isn’t pretty. Whites saved the Jews and Jews have responded by destroying us.

  68. @Change that Matters

    A rhetorical quibble, as it were. Something in this dynamic must be changed, and if these allegations (often facts) are indeed true, it becomes quite obvious in which direction the change must lie.

  69. Bravo to the author of this expose of a purposeful attack on America. And the most-certain reasons for Israel the attack, the most-definite cover-up, denial and effort to dismiss its criminal action, and the complicity of Americe and government then, now and the willing abide of the by-now utterly obvious hold of the jewish interests here and in conjunction with the renegade, terrorist and war-mongering state of Israel.

    In the whole of what Israel was and is and will be, is stated stated, is expressed in the fourth paragraph: “…the ship had managed to report its plight to other American military forces, so the enemy broke off the attack and retreated.”

    Within that sentence is “…the enemy…”

    Any doubt as to what Israel is to America? Unless the doubter is an operative of Israel, a traitor to America and a loyal servant of an enemy to America. Unfortunately, there are too many of them. Their operation is shown by this author and all the others who have brought this to light, to the survivors and the relatives of the survivors who have struggled to expose Israel for what it is: an enemy.

  70. @traducteur

    “the law of war does not apply to Jews… the lives of goyim are of no value”

    Examples abound. Gerald Bull, designer of super long range guns, Iranian scientists, and UN personnel in the field who are in the way:

    “Not only had the Israelis been concurrently massacring so many hundreds of Egyptian POWs, but just a day or two earlier an Israeli tank column had attacked a convoy of unarmed UN peacekeepers flying their blue flag, brutally killing more than a dozen of them, while also blasting the local UN headquarters.”

    UN observers in Lebanon have been attacked more than once by Israel, as in 1996 and 2006. In the latter, several were killed by a precision hit on their outpost.

    Because they haven’t suffered politically, the Israeli leadership is emboldened to dismiss war crimes by the IDF. The IDF still has a fundraiser which raises millions from American donors, unconcerned with murder.

    • Replies: @Alden
  71. @Sir Launcelot Canning

    Typo: you meant “missal”, but “missle” was what came through. The idea of a Catholc Missle” on Air Force One was entertaining, however; what made it a “Catholic” missle? Had it been blessed by the pope? Was the warhead nuclear Holy Water? One could go on, but a minute of pondering was a minute well spent. So little to laugh about these days.

  72. geokat62 says:
    @Mevashir

    I believe the Israelis paid significant financial compensation to the survivors.

    Significant?

    Taken directly from NSA’s report, which was declassified and approved for release by NSA on 11-08-2006:

    In May 1968, Israel paid the U.S. Government \$3,323,500 as full payment on behalf of the families of the 34 men killed in the attack. Eleven months later, Israel paid \$3,566,457 in compensation to the men who had been wounded. The U.S. claim of \$7,644,146 for material damage to the Liberty itself was not settled until 18 December 1980 when Israel agreed to pay \$6 million.

    https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-c1218dbb00dea0cc7383c85b48f91615

    So, that works out to (in 1968 dollars)…

    ~\$97k/killed
    ~\$48k/wounded

    The Israelis claimed that the vessel was NOT neutral but was there to tip off the Egyptians about Israeli military deployments and intentions.

    They lied about everything that happened that day and you expect us to take them at their word about one of the three war crimes they committed?

    What further actions should be taken?

    Try this case in a court of law and punish those found responsible for committing these war crimes with capital punishment.

    • Thanks: Mevashir
    • Replies: @RoatanBill
    , @Mevashir
  73. geokat62 says:

    For those who might be interested in doing a deeper dive, here’s a treasure trove of declassified documents released by the NSA:

    On June 8, 2007, the National Security Agency released hundreds of additional declassified documents on the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty, a communications interception vessel, on June 8, 1967.

    The February 2006 list below shows the ten Liberty-attack documents released before June 8, 2007. It was retrieved from the Wayback Machine.

    The longer list was downloaded from the NSA Liberty web site June 9, 2007. The links go to NSA.

    http://cryptome.info/0001/nsa-liberty.htm

  74. Realist says:
    @Maddaugh

    That’s right, and there is no shortage of young men, willing to sacrifice themselves for a pat on the head from the ruling class. Of course, said ruling class never put their own kids on the chopping block. We saw it once again in this Afghan fiasco. There is always a reliable inventory of suckers.

    You will be expected to be happy and of course invisible with a miserly stipend, your PTSD and missing body parts.

    An obvious confirmation of your belief that the ruling class has nothing but contempt for the suckers that are used as cannon fodder for their enrichment is the television commercials begging money for military personnel who have been hideously burned or mutilated in combat. The people that gain monetarily should foot the bill.

    But better yet no one should join the military.

    • Replies: @Getaclue
  75. Jiminy says:

    I see the boy from Harlem died. I don’t think many middle-easterners will attend his funeral, no doubt his jewish masters will though.

  76. With a “friend” like Israel, America sure doesn’t need any enemies.

  77. Bravo, it was a good read for someone who has only heard of the event, but not the specifics and the possible motives. It shows how conniving the government and intelligence agencies of both the US and Israel were at the time. Luckily those tough boys on the Liberty held out and the assholes didn’t get their war.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  78. It seems like this is your Ark, Noah, though rather than a global flood, it is a bizarre and ugly incident which took place during a war almost 60 years ago.

    But I notice that the moderate coverage in both the news media and published books doesn’t really fit with your American Pravda thesis.

    It is true that no one mainstream seems gleeful to report on it, but then it does not actually change geopolitical realities and cannot be used to denounce domestic enemies. Only fanatical anti-Semitic types seem to really enjoy it and when the “Jews worship Satan and sacrifice children” crowd love something, it only makes discussing it feel embarrassing.

    It is like how the Westboro Baptist Church’s picketing of US military funerals really did wonders for US military PR among the left.

    Tony Hart, a former communications operator at a relay station remembers listening to the words of Secretary of Defense McNamara as he personally ordered the recall of the jets sent to rescue the Liberty: “President [Lyndon] Johnson is not going to go to war or embarrass an American ally over a few sailors.”

    Unfortunately this well explains the military chiefs’ and LBJs’ quietening of the issue. Read Machiavelli. People at the top may talk about abstract morals, but they have vast complicated and complicated institutions to run. Ethical posturing can’t cut it when it comes to decision-making like that.

    The rest of your article is pretty empty. It seems that the investigative journalist wanted a story and knew how to make it seem plausible. There’s a couple of interesting coincidences and a few somewhat human motivations, but it is essentially gossip.

    The lack of a Hollywood film being made about it suggests that many people in Hollywood don’t really want to make one about Israelis killing American heroes. I don’t find this surprising, especially given that it would need a large budget as the intense action would take place on the sea, but it confirms that Jews both tend to not want Israel demonised and to be highly influential in Hollywood.

    1. Looking at the wider lessons, the huge number of US, and Israeli, personnel who leaked the true account of the attack on the USS Liberty, and which got reported all over the mainstream, confirms how silly much of the rest of American Pravda is.

    2. 1967 marked the high tide of Israeli territorial dominion as it has shrunk considerably in the ensuing 55 years. Whatever they’ve been doing to grow their sovereignty and influence since then has clearly not been working, if they have been doing much at all. This is the opposite of the Unz.com line, even though is is plainly obvious in terms of who controls what land.

    As for the Israeli motivation, the beginning of the article suggests some plausible ones. If you add in the chaos and panic of a very intense war, which took place crammed into just a week, then I think we have something which works, but the idea that Israel attacked the best communication and surveillance asset which the US had, as a false flag, is absurd on the face of it. They would not have been able to select a less suitable target.

    • LOL: geokat62
    • Replies: @Truth Vigilante
  79. nsa says:

    Summarizing the Unz screed: Amelika be the jew’s little BBB (butt bitch bottom).

  80. IreneAthena says: • Website

    Only tremendous luck and the heroic actions of the sailors prevented the Liberty from being sunk with all hands lost.

    If it really was a miracle that kept the Liberty afloat…

    …the sides and the decks being pitted by more than 800 holes larger than a man’s fist, including 100 rocket-hits that were six to eight inches wide, and a 40 foot hole below the waterline produced by a torpedo strike. Only a miracle kept the ship afloat.

    …then I hope more and more Christian Zionists would hear about that miracle….

    We must always keep in mind that only a miracle kept the Liberty afloat, if it had been sunk without survivors as expected, almost no one in American media or government would have dared accuse Israel of such an irrational act. Instead, as Stephen Green had first suggested in 1984, Egyptian forces would very likely have been blamed, producing powerful demands for immediate American retaliation, but probably on a vastly greater scale than the fictional Tonkin Gulf attack, which had inflicted no injuries.

    … and that the Christian Zionists would consider that the preservation of the Liberty echoes Biblical accounts of miraculous intervention in favor of those being attacked by the Hebrews…

    He [Ennes] also pointed out that if the operation had succeeded and the Liberty had been sunk with no survivors, America might have easily blamed Egypt for the attack, with major geopolitical consequences. Since the ship’s survival was little short of a miracle, that might have been the primary motive.

    … because the only Israel-related modern-day miracles Christian Zionists know about are associated with Jewish victories (e.g., on Day 2 of the 1967 Six-Day War, an optical illusion created by a mirage causing an Egyptian tank commander in the Sinai Desert to surrender to a vastly inferior Israeli force.)

    The Bible — and certainly modern history and current events— do NOT support the belief that the Hebrews always act righteously and morally. Their every act is NOT to be encouraged, funded, defended and covered up by Christian Zionists claiming to do the will of God.

    Christian Zionists need to get out of God’s way.

    • Thanks: Sir Launcelot Canning
    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  81. utu says:
    @Yevardian

    You might be right that the story about the plan of nuclear attack against Egypt was invented by Israel’s apologists to put Israel in the subservient role of a subcontractor who attacked USS Liberty only because it was forced to do it by the US. Israel is just a pawn of ugly America as Noam Chomsky has been telling us for years.

    “Witnesses” (1) who saw bombers being armed with different type of ordnance on the aircraft carrier, (2) who saw navy bombers being disarmed in Cyprus and (2) who participated in the strategic command alert in California one hour before the attack on USS Liberty could have been easily invented.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @geokat62
  82. To: All U.S. naval officers who serve as captain of U.S. naval surface or submarine vessels.

    Subject: USS Liberty Remembrance Day, Thursday June 8, 1967.

    To wit: The following is a list of seamen, Marines and civilian personnel who made the ultimate sacrifice in defense of their ship when deliberately and brutally attacked at sea by a hostile force in an act of war fifty-four years ago today. As a former Navy petty officer, I honor their service and memory.

    U.S. Navy personnel:

    1. CT3 Allenbaugh, William B.
    2. LCDR Armstrong, Philip M.
    3. SN Blanchard, Gary R.
    4. QM3 Brown, Francis
    5. CT2 Campbell, Ronnie, J.
    6. CT2 Converse, Jerry, L.
    7. CT2 Eisenberg, Robert B.
    8. CT3 Goss, Jerry, L.
    9. CT1 Graves, Curtis, A.
    10. CTSN Hayden, Lawrence, P.
    11. CT1 Hersey, Warren, E.
    12. CT3 Higgins, Alan
    13. SN Hoar, Carl, L.
    14. CT2 Keene, Richard, W.
    15. CTSN Lenau, James, L.
    16. CTC Linn, Raymond E.
    17. CT1 Lupton, James, M.
    18. CT3 Marggraf, Duane, R.
    19. CTSN Marlborough, David, W.
    20. CT2 Mendle, Anthony, P.
    21. CTSN Nygren, Carl, C.
    22. LT Pierce, James, C.
    23. ICFN Skolak, David
    24. CT1 Smith, John, Caleb
    25. CTC Smith, Melvin, D.
    26. PC2 Spicher, John C.
    27. GMG3 Thompson, Alexander, N.
    28. CT3 Thornton, Thomas R.
    29. CT3 Tiedtke, Philippe, C.
    30. LT Toth, Stephen S.
    31. CT1 Walton, Frederick, J.

    U.S. Marine Corps personnel:

    1. SGT Raper, Jack, L.
    2. CPL Rehmeyer, Edward, E.

    American civilian personnel:

    1. Blue, Allen M.

    I ask you as acting captains, to never forget the atrocity put upon these men who gave their lives in service to our Navy and the American people.

    I also ask you to remember you have the ultimate authority to take whatever measures necessary to defend your ship and crew from attack. You also have the right and duty to deliver assistance if such support is requested by the commanding officer or senior officer in charge of other vessels commissioned in the United States Navy who are under assault from any aggressor.

    No senior officer or civilian authority above you may issue a command that is in direct conflict with the safety of your ship or for those others who you deem to be in immediate peril of loss of life at sea. Such an order is unlawful and shall not be obeyed.

    Article 99 of the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice), sub-paragraphs (8) and (9):

    “Any person subject to this chapter who before or in the presence of the enemy–

    (8) willfully fails to do his utmost to encounter, engage, capture, or destroy any enemy troops, combatants, vessels, aircraft, or any other thing, which it is his duty so to encounter, engage, capture, or destroy; or

    (9) does not afford all practicable relief and assistance to any troops, combatants, vessels, or aircraft of the armed forces belonging to the United States or their allies when engaged in battle;

    shall be punished by death or such punishment as a court- martial may direct.”

    Article 90 of the UCMJ implies all orders are presumed to be lawful, and disobedience is at your own risk: “An order requiring the performance of a military duty or act may be inferred to be lawful, and it is disobeyed at the peril of the subordinate. This inference does not apply to a patently illegal order, such as one that directs the commission of a crime.”

    It would be a crime not to defend your ship or another that is under attack by a hostile force, even if the President of the United States told you otherwise.

    “This is the captain speaking. . . “, words verbalized by the officer who wears the command-at-sea pin above their right shirt pocket. The senior officer who is looked up to by junior officers and enlisted servicemen serving aboard ship. The captain expects each of the crew to do their job. They in turn expect their captain to perform without fear of reprisal in the best interest of the ship, crew and other U.S. naval vessels needing help.

    Here is a short quiz for your FITREP.

    If you had the opportunity and means to render assistance to another ship that was under assault; what would you do?

    1. Proceed with all haste to defend the vessel and crew under attack.
    2. Check first with Washington and ask the bureaucrats for permission.
    3. Check first with the government attacking the ship for permission to render aid.

    Answered with number one? Congratulations; you have what it takes to be a leader in the U.S. Navy.

    Answered with number two or three? You care more about your personal career and less about U.S. Navy and Marine Corps personnel and the ships that serve in the fleet. Resign your commission and run for political office; you’re a natural for currying favor with foreign governments and the nuances of funding your campaign with bribes (i.e., “contributions”).

    Each year on this day this list will remind the citizens of each of these United States of the heroic sacrifice these men gave in service to our country. The complete and satisfactory resolution surrounding their demise has not been sufficiently addressed nor have the perpetrators of these crimes of murder been brought up on criminal charges. No apology, no thirty pieces of silver, no statute of limitations will wash away the blood of corruption that allowed this to happen.

    We want justice for those thirty-four brave sailors, Marines and civilian personnel who perished and the one hundred and seventy-four that were severely wounded in battle at the hand of a so called “ally”.

    It is the least we can do for the remembrance of Captain McGonagle and the crew of the USS Liberty.

    • Thanks: geokat62
  83. @JWalters

    Lies include 6 gazillion dead, soaps and lampshade covers made from derivatives, and god as an estate agent.
    https://www.trunews.com has made a pay for view documentary which I haven’t seen as yet.

  84. Ron Unz says:
    @utu

    You might be right that the story about the plan of nuclear attack against Egypt was invented by Israel’s apologists to put Israel in the subservient role of a subcontractor who attacked USS Liberty only because it was forced to do it by the US. Israel is just a pawn of ugly America as Noam Chomsky has been telling us for years.

    “Witnesses”…could have been easily invented.

    That’s an interesting sort of triple-backflip “conspiracy theory” but I think the likelihood is roughly zero:

    (1) The entire book/documentary project was launched and funded by Richard Thompson, a longtime ally of the Liberty survivors and strong critic of Israel, who died under somewhat suspicious circumstances.

    (2) The BBC documentary he produced focused entirely on Israel’s guilt and suggested the possible use of nuclear weapons, but avoided any mention of LBJ’s possible role. Thompson had to spend \$200,000 battling Jewish groups in court to allow it to be shown.

    (3) Hounam was a close friend and collaborator with Thompson, and interviewed all of the individuals who provided evidence of a nuclear strike against Egypt, with about half of the stories coming from Liberty survivors. The LBJ component is largely based upon an analysis of public documents and careful reasoning rather than any particular new witnesses.

    (4) Under your hypothesis the Hounam book was subtly intended as a pro-Israel strategy. But it has received virtually zero attention in the last 18 years. Wouldn’t pro-Israel elements have somehow tried to promote it, at least to some tiny extent?

    I’d say the likelihood that Thompson, Hounam, and all Liberty survivors were actually working together as part of pro-Israel “conspiracy” is pretty close to zero.

    • Agree: Wizard of Oz
    • Replies: @utu
  85. @RoatanBill

    We all know what you say is true RoatanBill, but unless you are a teenager yourself shouldn’t you dissuade them?
    Who is a kid? I think anyone less informed than me that needs an education, regardless of age.
    And I’m willing to learn from them as well.

  86. @geokat62

    The Israelis had to wait for their gifts from the US taxpayer before they returned a tiny portion to the victims. They even delayed payment to make a buck on the float for a few years.

    • Replies: @HT
  87. Chris Moore says: • Website
    @jsinton

    Johnson tried to sink the Liberty by ordering the Israelis to do it with the intention of blaming the Egyptians, thereby creating a pretext to join the 6 Day War and invade Egypt along with Israel. Egypt was already smashed militarily by that particular day. It would have been a simple matter to clear out the Russians. A 1967 Russia would not start WW III since they were strategically weaker and unprepared. The US would then control Africa, and Israel would be secure. Checkmate.

    Johnson was a ((Jew)) and thought like a ((Jew)). He had no problem treating (“goyim”) US soldiers as expendable chess pieces, just like the Deep State/Zionists had no problem doing 9/11 and then using it to lie the US into a series of disastrously (from the American perspective) Mideast wars.

    ((Jews)) are mentally ill and treat non-Jews as abstractions and chess pieces, and are no more upset over the loss of American life than they are at losing an occasional pawn. Consequently, when it comes down to it, they are also willing to sacrifice their own if it means survival and advantage in the Great Game.

    [MORE]

    I think that might be what’s going on Israel with the Covid “vaccination” gambit. Top ((Jews)) have basically admitted the “vaccine mandates are all about coercion and social control.”
    https://www.vaccinewars.com/2021-10-08-israel-health-minister-vaccine-mandates-about-coercion.html

    So no matter who you are or where you live, there are consequences for “tolerance” of mentally ill ((Jews)) and their ilk. Deadly consequences.

    • Agree: Truth Vigilante
    • Thanks: John Wear
  88. Franz says:
    @Franz

    The whole is written by James M. Ennes, author of Assault on the Liberty and worth reading just to see how lowdown and just plain dirty our “great ally in the Middle East” really is.

    “Whole thing worth reading…” then I forget the link! No more posting right after work, buster. Wake up first,

    The Ennes article on The Secret War Against the Jews (specific charges about the Liberty) —

    http://www.ussliberty.org/secret.htm

  89. Mevashir says:
    @geokat62

    Try this case in a court of law and punish those found responsible for committing these war crimes with capital punishment.

    Why not try the US politicians and military brass who colluded to cover up the Israeli actions? They are much more accessible to American courts than the Zionos.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  90. @brostoevsky

    One, other, very significant element of the 1967 war is mentioned in Foxbats Over Dimona The Soviets’ Nuclear Gamble in the Six-Day War.

    Were Russians attempting to destroy Israel’s nascent nuclear weapons capability at Dimona?

    “the Six-Day War was the result of a joint Soviet-Arab gambit to provoke Israel into a preemptive attack. The authors reveal how the Soviets received a secret Israeli message indicating that Israel, despite its official ambiguity, was about to acquire nuclear weapons. Determined to destroy Israel’s nuclear program before it could produce an atomic bomb, the Soviets then began preparing for war–well before Moscow accused Israel of offensive intent, the overt trigger of the crisis.”

    Was the Liberty involved in that effort, or monitoring it?


    One other interesting aspect of the 1967, or “6 Day War” was mentioned by Jeff Gates in an interview by Henrik Palmgren on RedIce
    https://altcensored.com/watch?v=cr56HuPf-9o. (youtube has disappeared the video)

    to discuss Gates’s book, Guilt by Association.
    (Reviewed HERE: https://www.wrmea.org/008-november/books-guilt-by-association-how-deception-and-self-deceit-took-america-to-war.html. )

    Pertinent to the 1967 war, Gates said that LBJ’s speechwriter, Terry McPherson, happened to land in Israel when the 1967 war was “going hot.” McPherson and the US Ambassador to Israel were with an Israeli intelligence agent when they hear sirens wail. They said, “Shouldn’t we go to an air raid shelter,” but the Israeli replied, “That won’t be necessary.”
    Whereupon McPherson and the Ambassador realized, “Oh my god. This was a put-up job. They had been setting up this attack on Egypt . . .taking out their entire Air Force in about 90 min. There was no attack on Israel.”

    Gates continued:
    “The sirens were meant to inject fear and insecurity into the broader Israeli population.”

    Gates maintains that Israel has been run by the “far right” since its inception; that it — or what some call “zionists” are actually a “transgenerational criminal gang” that maintains Jews as well as (the rest of us) in a perpetual state of fear and terror. (Covid being the most recent manifestation of the workings of that ‘criminal cabal.’)

    [Not precisely on the topic of Israel’s attack on the Liberty, but Gates’s insight seems important: many Jews have been equally bullied and terrorized by the “transgenerational criminal gang” as have non-Jews throughout the world and for several generations. I suspect more and more Jews have become more comfortable being among the Bullies rather than the Bullied.

    Permit a further discourse: Straightforward Jewish historians explain that “Jews lived as a corporate body in Europe,” with their rabbi-leaders exercising enormous control over every aspect on Jewish life, even the “monopoly on violence” and ability to put to death a Jew offending Jewish rabbinic controls.
    Mevashir noted the liberal policies of Napoleon towards the European Jewish communities, which is the point when the Jewish rabbi-controlled Jewish corporate structure was sundered. Mevashir complained that

    “Hitler’s role was crucial because he demonstrated most vividly the Jews could not be accepted in European societies, whether they remained orthodox, became secular, or even converted to christianity. They were completely repudiated in contradiction to the liberal policies of Napoleon towards the European Jewish communities. Without Hitler’s racialist denigration of all Jews, the Zionist project would not have become urgent in the eyes of the rest of the world following world war ii. ”

    I reject that argument. I suspect that the Jewish rabbis whose control was wrested from them in the Napoleonic ‘liberalization’ have created of Hitler a scapegoat for their on-going effort to reclaim lost power over their fellow Jews (as well as the rest of us).

    • Replies: @Mevashir
    , @Derer
  91. geokat62 says:
    @utu

    Israel is just a pawn of ugly America as Noam Chomsky has been telling us for years.

    Bahahahahaha!

  92. HT says:
    @RoatanBill

    The same money changers Jesus ran out of the Temple 2000 years ago.

  93. Lysias says:
    @turtle

    It’s a bit of an exaggeration to say that the Liberty was “armed”. The only weapons it carried were four machine guns.

    • Replies: @fnn
    , @turtle
  94. Mevashir says:

    This article is amazingly comprehensive, but I would also call it TMI. It overwhelms us and distracts from what should really be a simple conclusion:

    1. The US officials who colluded with the Israelis to cover up their murderous actions should have been brought to trial for treason.
    2. In response to the Israeli actions, rather than beg for their cooperation we should have recalled the US ambassador to Tel Aviv and expelled all Israeli diplomats from the US. And then imposed further sanctions including banning Israeli tourists from the USA, ending all military cooperation, refusing to supply them with spare parts, etc.

    Simple clear effective.

    According to Boston, both he and his superior, Admiral Isaac C. Kidd, the presiding judge, had been absolutely convinced at the time that Israel had deliberately attacked the Liberty and murdered our sailors, but they had been ordered by their political and military superiors, including Admiral John S. McCain, Jr., father of the late senator, to absolve the Jewish State of any blame. Moreover, major elements of their written report were deleted or altered before release, in further efforts to conceal the clear evidence of Israel’s guilt. Considering that for over 35 years, Boston’s official handiwork had been cited as the primary bulwark supporting Israeli innocence, his signed January 9, 2004 affidavit constituted a very powerful declaration to the contrary. Aside from condemning Cristol as a fraud and a liar and reporting that Admiral Kidd believed the author “must be an Israeli agent,” Boston’s statement closed with the following paragraph:

    Contrary to the misinformation presented by Cristol and others, it is important for the American people to know that it is clear that Israel is responsible for deliberately attacking an American ship and murdering American sailors, whose bereaved shipmates have lived with this egregious conclusion for many years.

    Based on this we also can conclude that the American naval underlings who knew the truth and failed to come forward as whistle blowers and to resign their commissions were treasonous cowards of the highest degree.

    I guess you have to be a transie like Manning to act courageously in the face of highest-level Pentagon corruption. Ditto for the NSA stooges who clamor for Snowden’s head while back then they sat on this outrageous story.

    FCK THEM ALL

  95. brams says:
    @CelestiaQuesta

    Israelis have cowardly and with total impunity killed Americans and you say that Trump, who has satisfied all of Israel’s low instincts, is a patriot, maybe! !!! Israeli patriot of the Israeli kibbutz represented by the white house.

  96. geokat62 says:
    @Mevashir

    Why not try the US politicians and military brass who colluded to cover up the Israeli actions?

    That would be Phase 2 of the Tribunal.

  97. Mevashir says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    [MORE]

    Permit a further discourse: Straightforward Jewish historians explain that “Jews lived as a corporate body in Europe,” with their rabbi-leaders exercising enormous control over every aspect on Jewish life, even the “monopoly on violence” and ability to put to death a Jew offending Jewish rabbinic controls.

    https://www.unz.com/aanglin/germany-96-year-old-secretary-of-doom-on-the-run-after-being-charged-with-committing-the-holocaust/?showcomments#comment-4942280
    Mevashir noted the liberal policies of Napoleon towards the European Jewish communities, which is the point when the Jewish rabbi-controlled Jewish corporate structure was sundered. Mevashir complained that

    “Hitler’s role was crucial because he demonstrated most vividly the Jews could not be accepted in European societies, whether they remained orthodox, became secular, or even converted to christianity. They were completely repudiated in contradiction to the liberal policies of Napoleon towards the European Jewish communities. Without Hitler’s racialist denigration of all Jews, the Zionist project would not have become urgent in the eyes of the rest of the world following world war ii.

    I reject that argument. I suspect that the Jewish rabbis whose control was wrested from them in the Napoleonic ‘liberalization’ have created of Hitler a scapegoat for their on-going effort to reclaim lost power over their fellow Jews (as well as the rest of us).

    I don’t quite follow your meaning here. In point of fact most Orthodox rabbis blame Napoleon’s seduction of Jewry into secularism as the catalyst for Hitler’s anti-Jewish policies. They note for instance that the racialist Nuremburg laws mirrored Jewish halachic restrictions on interactions between Jews and Gentiles. Check this out from a very famous Polish rabbi of the early 20th century, Meir Simcha of Dvinsk, aka Ohr Samayach: https://ohr.edu/1427

    Rabbi Meir Simcha was a strong supporter of the settlement of Eretz Yisrael and greeted the Balfour Declaration with enthusiasm. He also believed that in order for a Rabbi to be a true leader of his community, he must be fluent in the language of the land. In a famous near-prophetic passage written before 1926, he presents a brilliant theory of Jewish history in the Diaspora and asserts that those who forget their origins, thinking “Berlin is Jerusalem”, are doomed to destruction. Elsewhere he writes forebodingly that a Jew should willingly give his life to sanctify G-ds name, because it is natural that when one is confronted with an opposing force, his essence comes to the fore.

    We were told that his full statement is that those who think Berlin is Jerusalem will suffer destruction from a firestorm [Shoah = Holocaust in Hebrew] that will burst forth from that very same Berlin.

    https://www.geni.com/people/R-Meir-Simcha-Ha-Kohen-of-Dvinsk-Or-Sameyach/6000000011225758260
    His main contribution to Jewish philosophy was to be posthumous. His pupil Menachem Mendel Zaks published Meshech Chochma (“The Price of Wisdom”, Meshech is the acronym of Meir Simcha Kohen, and the words derive from Job 28:18), which contains novellae on the Torah, but very often branches off into questions of Jewish philosophy. He is often quoted as having predicted the Holocaust in a statement in this work: “They think that Berlin is Jerusalem”.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  98. @JWalters

    And the biggest false history of all time, the 6 million hoax, oy.

  99. @Eagle Eye

    1960 (November) U.S. Presedential election not contested by Nixon, yknow the one that eventually got us President LBJ.

  100. When you think about it, the Liberty was the perfect metaphor for the country as a whole in the 1960s: WASP leaders cravenly buckling before an imaginary Goliath that screamed and yelled but was actually a 90-pound bully with spaghetti arms. Nothing has changed.

  101. Avery says:
    @Change that Matters

    {My only quibble is why this isn’t on the front page of The New York Times.}

    Are you serious?

    NY Times is the propaganda and disinformation organ for everything that is un-American and anti-American. I thought everyone knew.

    Even if by some quirk they covered it, it would re-enforce and re-affirm the official LIE.
    And anyone questioning the official (false) narrative* would be labelled a “white supremacist” (sic), an anti-Semite (sic), a conspiracy nut, loony, mentally unstable,…….

    _______________________________________-
    * that Israel made an honest mistake: ‘fog of war’, you know………

    • Replies: @Change that Matters
  102. @Montefrío

    Some are probably fake but there are a bunch of images on the internet of Russian Orthodox priests shaking incense smoke over missiles and whatnot.

    https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/06/24/russian-church-seeks-to-ban-blessings-of-weapons-of-mass-destruction-a66116

  103. utu says:
    @Ron Unz

    I’d say the likelihood that Thompson, Hounam, and all Liberty survivors were actually working together as part of pro-Israel “conspiracy” is pretty close to zero.

    Why not add Ron Unz to the list as well because he promotes the story that distracts from Israel culpability of the attack on the USS Liberty. Besides Liberty survivors are in no position to know anything what was happening elsewhere so they do not belong to the list They as witnesses provide timeline of the attack and the account of the damage to the ship and casualties. They can not contribute anything to the story on the plan of the nuclear attack.

    Anyway, I do not know and I haven’t read books you did but I concur with Yevardian and find the nuclear attack on Egypt far-fetched (On June 8 Jordan and Egypt already agreed to ceasefire.) and for this reason it occurred to me that the story could have been planted to shift from Israel’s responsibility for a major war crime and act of aggression against the US to the usual blaming of America, so all American patriots can hate on Washington, which is what they like to do anyway instead of Israel.

    And look, Wizard of Oz agrees with your comment.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  104. fnn says:
    @Lysias

    Yes, the machine guns were just to repel boarders.

  105. Thim says:

    Same as 911. They wouldn’t have done it without American permission.

  106. @Mevashir

    לְפַהֵק
    האם שכחת?
    ל- S2C אין אמפטיה לסבל [אפל]

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  107. dms578 says:

    recently heard a podcast with Commander William McGonagle who was on the liberty when this happened. He specifically stated that he overheard a transmission between an israeli pilot and his base stating he did not want to attack a ship of an ally and was ordered to proceed. this belies claims in this article that the Israeli AF fighters were aware of their mission. He also said the attack was stopped by the appearance of a sea vessel from a foreign nation.
    He is also aware that LBJ had said he did not care if every sailor on the vessel was killed. Sounds like him but I do not know the source of the commander’s claim.
    The commander can be seen on youtube and is a more credible source than various journalists which does not imply they are lying. I was surprise at this author’s not mentioning him. He also said that recently he attended a talk by charlie kirk a so termed youth leader of the right and rose to ask him to address this issue. Kirk screamed at him a man in his 90s i believe telling him he would not discuss conspiracy theories I gave Kirk hell over this and told him he was unfit to be a spokesperson for the conservative movement.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @Eagle Eye
  108. BorisMay says:

    Interesting article which draws all the major points together.

    LBJ always was the joker in the pack, though I suspect he was more an opportunist than was Roosevelt.

    Party politics is what destroys democracy.

    The only way to have a functioning democracy is to have all candidates stand as independents. They must not be dual passport holders and they must not accept funding from outside sources.

    All special interest groups must be outlawed and elected candidates must only represent the interests of their electorates.

    Essentially you have to take the money out of politics and take politics out of the pockets of special interest groups.

    This means, of course, that anyone can stand for election on any basis, though in reality candidates will stand on local issues and local issues will predominate.

    Interesting that at no point did the author mention that Israel is, according to international law, an illegal entity. Consequently any administration associating or assisting Israel is breaking the law. Thus LBJ and every president since has been breaking the law associating with Israel.

    This simple fact is regularly ignored.

    • Replies: @mulga mumblebrain
  109. @SolontoCroesus

    in plain English:
    I will not engage with you, Mevashir, because I don’t think you speak/think/act in good faith.

    You have not made the commitment to be Christian and not Jewish; you want to be both. You want the privileges of both, and demand that the Christians among whom you seek to function, give you the ‘full faith and credit’ of their institutions and networks, but you (meaning a major segment of the Jewish community) are not willing to open up the Jewish community to ‘Christians’ in the same way.

    I’ve struggled to understand KMac’s concept of “crypsis.”
    You are its poster child.

    • Replies: @Mevashir
    , @Mevashir
  110. Derer says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    (Jews) have created of Hitler a scapegoat for their on-going effort to reclaim lost power over their fellow Jews (as well as the rest of us).

    You are talking nonsense…Jewish rabbis never lost the hypnotic power over their obeying brethren.
    BTW how do you know that Israel possess nuclear arsenal…CIA vehemently (lied) assured us Israel do not have such thing but Iran cannot have it.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  111. Ron Unz says:
    @utu

    Anyway, I do not know and I haven’t read books you did but I concur with Yevardian and find the nuclear attack on Egypt far-fetched

    One reason my articles are often so long is that I try to provide a reasonable summary of the underlying information for those unable to read the books I cite. If you carefully read my article, you’d notice that Hounam was promoting two major hypotheses, which are entirely separate: (1) LBJ arranged for the attack on the Liberty and (2) the American retaliatory strike against Egypt was nuclear. Only (1) tends to partially exculpate Israel in the way you suggest.

    For example, the documentary avoids (1) but includes some mention of (2), while suggesting that Israel probably attacked the Liberty to trigger an American strike on Egypt. Since the film provided very strong evidence that the attack was deliberate and was the first to do so, it was obviously a top target of pro-Israel groups who blocked it from screening in America, while it was only shown once in Britain. Since it effectively claims that Israel’s deliberate actions almost unleashed a nuclear attack, it’s about as anti-Israel as can be imagined.

    In the more comprehensive book, virtually all the evidence for (1) is from existing public sources, but analyzed and reinterpreted in a different way. Except for the Nanjo story, there isn’t any new or eyewitness testimony, true or otherwise.

    Meanwhile, I absolutely, positively agree that (2) the nuclear claim is so astonishing and implausible that it seems impossible that it might have been true. However, there are quite a number of individuals, including numerous Liberty survivors, who support it with their personal testimony, and I provided the six or seven examples in my article. Maybe all those individuals were lying or confused, but I think it’s a bad idea to totally ignore what so many people say about something. Basically, the only reason anyone might believe that a nuclear strike was planned is that a lot of people who were actually there say so.

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-remembering-the-liberty/#a-nuclear-strike-against-egypt

    • Thanks: utu
  112. grettir says:
    @JWalters

    This is ludicrous. Why do you say “zionist”? when it is clear that what is needed is “Jewish”?

  113. Getaclue says:
    @Realist

    Henry Kissinger has been recorded saying just this type thing as to soldiers….

    All USA wars since 911 False Flag were Masonic bs serving Israel–millions of innocent people have been murdered as a result

  114. Ron Unz says:
    @dms578

    recently heard a podcast with Commander William McGonagle who was on the liberty when this happened.. a more credible source than various journalists which does not imply they are lying….He also said that recently he attended a talk by charlie kirk a so termed youth leader of the right and rose to ask him to address this issue.

    Well, McGonagle died 22 years ago, so I doubt you recently heard him on a podcast saying he attended a talk by Charlie Kirk.

  115. @Derer

    BTW how do you know that Israel possess [sic] nuclear arsenal

    If Israel does NOT possess a nuclear arsenal, Arlen Specter went to a lot of useless effort to protect Zalman Shapiro, the head of now-defunct NUMEC, said to have diverted uranium from NUMEC in Apollo, PA to Israel to create its “third temple,” nuclear weaponry.

    Incidentally, the people of Apollo, PA are still suffering and struggling to clean up the polluted site NUMEC left behind.

    Another interesting note: Anthony Fauci’s career at NIH soared after Arlen Specter took Fauci under his wing.
    NIH was a sleepy suburban research bureau until Specter funneled millions, maybe billions of taxpayer dollars into it. Among Specter’s chief aims in so doing was to fund research into Tay Sachs disease, which at the time was thought to affect almost exclusively Ashkenazi Jews. Putting ‘American’ treasure to the service of Jewish interests, and ‘hiring’ a non-Jewish front man, his shabbos goy. Fauci: the grift that keeps on grifting.

    • Replies: @Derer
  116. @Anon62

    Don’t be silly. So-called ‘International Law’ is goyish nonsense. It does not apply to the ‘Gods Upon the Earth’ and to assert so is deeply ‘antisemitic’. Your name has been taken.

  117. @Getaclue

    Not ‘murdered’. Sacrificed to Israel’s bloody God. Each one a mitzvah.

  118. @BorisMay

    What destroys ‘liberal democracy’ is money power, the plain control of a society by its owners. The reason that Israel can do ANYTHING it wants is that they own the whole sad, sick, sorry farce. Party politics is just a ‘divide and rule’ strategy to keep the plebs powerless.

    • Replies: @BorisMay
  119. geokat62 says:

    While American servicemen were being strafed with bullets, bombarded with napalm, and torpedoed with underwater missiles, LBJ was reportedly getting LBJed by Mossad spy, Matilda Krim.

    Excerpts from, The not-so-secret life of Mathilde Krim:

    [MORE]

    What the news has not told you about is Krim’s other great achievement: helping to swing the White House to Israel’s side in the 1960’s. The no-daylight policy of U.S. alignment with the Israeli government, so obvious today in Trump’s deference to Netanyahu, was born under Mathilde Krim’s dear friend Lyndon Johnson. In the feverish weeks surrounding the 1967 war, Krim, who had once emigrated to Israel, and her husband Arthur, a leading fundraiser, were continually at Johnson’s side, and advised him on what to say publicly…

    It has been suggested that Mathilde Krim was LBJ’s lover. “It was a barely hidden secret in leading government circles in Israel and the United States at the time that Mrs. Krim was extremely close to Lyndon Johnson,”…

    Two days later, on the morning of June 5, Mathilde Krim was in her bed in her room on the third floor of the White House when Johnson came in to tell her the war had begun.

    https://mondoweiss.net/2018/01/secret-life-mathilde/

    • Thanks: Sarah
  120. raga10 says:

    I don’t know… I still don’t see what Israelis stood to gain from this attack. I don’t find any of the suggestions I saw so far convincing. They took a huge risk, and for what? US was already on their side.

    I don’t buy the idea of nuclear strike on Egypt, either. If Americans wanted to do it, they would just do it. Why bother with such piss-poor excuse? International community would never consider nuking whole country in retaliation for attacking one ship an appropriate response.

    As for those tapes where Israeli pilots discuss American origin of the ship – well, where are they? I believe they are actually nowhere to be found. Convenient for both sides, huh?

    Finally, if I was hatching a plan that hinged on disappearing a ship without a trace, I would not use a spy ship – ship that is by definition jam-packed with communications equipment.

    • Agree: Oscar Peterson
  121. I believe I’ve read the allegations that LBJ was planning to use the Liberty as an excuse to attack Egypt, but brushed them away as perhaps true, perhaps false. In today’s environment, with a deliberate biological attack on the population of the US, perpetrated or at least aided by our own power elite, I’m much more inclined to believe that not only did LBJ intent to attack Egypt, he was willing to take out Soviet assets as “collateral damage.” LBJ well may have anticipated a difficult election, as the true news from Vietnam was not good, though the US public was kept in the dark until Tet in early 1968. Perhaps he new that such an attack was likely.

    The allegation that FDR helped instigate WW II by encouraging the intransigence of Britain and Poland is new to me, but likely in view of the (IMHO proven) deliberate policy of backing Japan into a corner and provoking an expected attack on US/UK assets in Asia.

  122. Corrupt says:

    I guess if the israeli’s were found to be performing their own holocaust on Egyptians, they wouldn’t be able to cry wolf any more.

  123. @Avery

    Are you serious?

    No.

    • Thanks: Avery
  124. Realist says:
    @Getaclue

    All USA wars since 911 False Flag were Masonic bs serving Israel–millions of innocent people have been murdered as a result

    Actually, all U. S. wars since WWII were in the furtherment of world hegemony.

  125. Although I am second to none in my detestation for the disloyalty of organized Jewry in the US and for the subverted goy institutions through which they have marched, I don’t think the evidence supports the claim that Israel deliberately, and with malice aforethought, attacked the Liberty.

    And though I don’t like Cristol and his insinuating Jewishness, and though it pains me to say it, I do think his book is, on balance, the best one on the topic.

    I don’t think any really credible motive for what would be the incredibly risky Israeli decision to attack a US ship has ever been established. And I don’t think the mode of execution of the attacks is reflective of a concerted attempt to act clandestinely. The Israelis simply did things wholly inconsistent with the secrecy that would have been absolutely paramount in undertaking such an operation.

    The two principal possible motives ascribed to Israel are:

    1. An attempt to cover up the massacre of Egyptian prisoners
    2. An attempt to cover up preparations for a major attack into Syria in the north.
    (The nebulous claims about WW III and nuclear weapons use seem utterly ludicrous to me.)

    What capability did the Liberty have that would have been so threatening to the Israelis? VHF collection range was limited to maybe 10 miles inland at most given the ship’s stand-off distance from the coast. UHF was mostly applicable to aircraft and HF to higher level communications between HQ and government-level entities. So the VHF intercept capability barely went beyond the coast itself. In any case, the war had moved much further west by the time the Liberty arrived half-way through the six-day war. The ship requested that its designated collection box be moved west from the Gaza/Sinai area to nearer the Nile delta, which was refused because the Navy had already decided to move the Liberty well away from the war zone out further into the Med. The transmission of that message was bungled by the Navy and did not reach the ship until after the attack.

    With regard to motive #1, even if the Israelis actually did massacre prisoners, and even if the US did come to know of it via the Liberty, why would the Israeli leadership worry about the US reaction? Johnson was quite happy supporting brutal dictators as long as they were anti-Communist, and he was an ardent supporter of Israel. Israel had already done plenty of massacring in 1948-49 and it was never a PR problem for them. It makes no sense that they would have taken such an immense risk to address a problem that didn’t really exist for them.

    The same issue applies to motive #2. Sure, the Israelis wanted their invasion of Syria to be a fait accompli and therefore wanted to keep preparations secret, but given their ability to very successfully portray the whole contrived six-day war as merely an act of Arab aggression to which poor little Israel was forced to respond, what could really justify the huge risk of attacking a US ship? In addition, the Liberty was not well positioned to cover communication up to the northern front. The SIGINT collection capability resident on the roof of the US embassy in Tel Aviv or the USAF airborne collectors were the assets who might have tipped off the US about the impending Israeli offensive, not the Liberty.

    Then there is the actual nature of the attack on the ship. All the attacks took place during daylight hours. Yes, night vision devices were in their infancy at that time so the option of night attacks was limited. But why would you have motor torpedo boats flying Israeli flags (As CAPT McGonagle testified) attack the ship in broad daylight? If you had wanted secrecy, you would have avoided the use of easily identifiable aircraft and strafing runs that would not, in themselves, sink the ship and relied on torpedoes fired from submarines or from MTBs at night or in twilight hours. The Israelis fired five torpedoes of which one hit the ship. Why did they not put more torpedoes into her, and why not do that first instead of the aircraft runs that did not actually threaten to sink her? Israeli submarine capability was very limited at this time and some were on the Red Sea side of the Suez Canal, but an operation of this riskiness would, I think, have generated a very different Israeli plan of attack had it truly been deliberate.

    It’s true that the Johnson administration refused to countenance a real investigation, but I don’t think that was to cover up a deliberate attack but was merely to eliminate the inconvenience to Israel and his Jewish supporters of the continued media discussion that would have attended an investigation. That’s bad enough, but not the same as complicity in a preconceived attack. The Navy was interested in avoiding an investigation because it would certainly have highlight the incompetence that prevented the CNO’s order to move the Liberty away from Egyptian waters from getting to the ship in time. I am sympathetic to the conclusions that much of the ship’s crew drew from these shenanigans, but I don’t agree with them. The attempts by organized Jewry to block books and threaten any who attempt to criticize Israel is of course a real problem and one that has only metastasized since that time. But given how much rock-solid evidence there is of Israeli malfeasance in general and of the perfidy of its operatives in the US in particular, there is no reason for us to hang our hat on this issue for which the case being made is, in my view, inadequate.

    • Replies: @dimples
  126. One-off says:

    Excellent account, Ron, even if truly depressing; it certainly is better written than many of the sources you cite. Discussion of what happened to the USS Liberty was confined to the fringes for years. If memory serves, The Liberty Lobby was taken out for all intents and purposes after a poorly sourced albeit accurate article about the attack appeared in a magazine it published, THE BEACON (I may have conflated groups and publications here but think that is correct; if not, someone please correct it). A hit piece written by Drew Pearson and Jack Anderson soon thereafter claimed the Liberty Lobby had close ties to the Klan and neo-Nazis and is widely suspected to have been the result of payola from ADL. Among politicians, it is hard to think of any who was more vocal about the USS Liberty and any who was more vilified over it than Pete McCloskey. Google his name today and you would think he was a staffer at Stormfront.

    I don’t know what to make of the World War III claim but the sacrifice of US service members to justify military action not only is an open secret it is stated policy in the case of Korea. My research has led me to believe Johnson’s real target actually was Nasser but the Israelis jumped the gun over fear of exposure of the atrocities the IDF was committing in the Sinai. World War III certainly could have happened if the Soviets began a land invasion in Egypt.

    Again, great piece.

  127. BlackFlag says:
    @jsinton

    Yes, according to this explanation, Israel was more like America’s pawn rather than vice versa. Or you could say they were partners. So unlike in some other cases where Israel/Jews can be portrayed as the arch-villain, the conclusion that should be drawn in this case is how traitorous and venal the American elite are. The other conclusion is how pathetic the will/asabiya/moral strength of Americans in general is. Despite of massive amount of evidence only a smattering of people raised any fuss at all.

    It seems to be worse than ever as Alan Sabrosky discussed in his interview with Kevin Barrett: not one other member of the military supported that Colonel that recently dared to criticize the military policy in Afghanistan. Or like commenter Mevashir remarked in another thread on how even White Nationalists are unable to resist supporting Hollywood. Americans (European ones) are a sick people and that’s why they’ve lost their country.

    • Agree: jsinton
  128. anarchyst says:

    Who controls the media?
    June 8, 2017 was the fiftieth anniversary of the deliberate attack upon the USS Liberty (GTR-5). Normally, on the fiftieth anniversary of any notable event in history, there is at least a mention of it in the mainstream media. Not so for the USS Liberty (GTR-5).
    This, in itself is telling.
    The USS Liberty was in international waters, clearly marked and identified by the Israelis as an American ship.
    Lyndon Johnson initially refused help for the stricken ship as he did not want to embarrass an ally (Israel). The plan, all along was for Israel to attack the ship, leaving no survivors, and then to blame it on Egypt, thereby pulling America into a middle east war on the side of the Israelis. A brave sailor was able to reconnect an antenna, under fire, to get the message out that they were being attacked. Initially Lyndon Johnson refused to send help, but was forced to when the fleet got the distress call. All one has to do is look at the Lavon affair, among others, in which Israel always gets others to do its dirty work for them.
    The subsequent investigation was whitewashed by none other than Admiral John S McCain (yes, John McCain’s daddy) with the captain of the ship being awarded the Medal of Honor not at the White House (which is protocol), but at an obscure Naval base.
    The USS Liberty (GTR-5) sailors were scattered throughout the Navy and warned not to discuss the “incident” (actually an act of war) under pain of courts-martial.
    The way the crew of the USS Liberty (GTR-5) was treated still stinks to this day.
    The USS Liberty (GTR-5) is the most decorated ship in Naval history.
    If I had my way, Israel would have been turned into a glass parking lot on 9 June 1967.

    • Replies: @Lysias
    , @Jett Rucker
    , @turtle
  129. Exile says:

    Interesting how the same Israeli names keep cropping up in American politics, decade after decade. From Bamford’s rebuttal:

    For example, it would be important to know whether the author of the article, Michael Oren, who was harshly critical of my chapter on the Israeli military’s role in the attack on the Liberty, has any ties to Israel himself. I am a totally independent writer and have no ties to either Israel or any organization involved with the USS Liberty.

    Oren, however, is a reserve officer and war veteran of the Israeli Defense Forces as well as a former advisor to the government of Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin — who was Army chief of staff at the time the Liberty was attacked. He now works for a small right wing, pro-Benjamin Netanyahu Israeli think tank in Jerusalem, the Shalem Center. It is run by its founder, Yoram Hazony, one of former Prime Minister Netanyahu’s closest aides (he also ghost wrote a book by him). During the race for prime minister, the political party of Ehud Barak even accused the center of illegally funneling money to Netanyahu — a charge denied by the center. The Israeli Education Ministry has called the center “a research institute whose leanings are extreme right-wing and even fascistic.”

    Yes, that Harzony, lately seen wearing his Fellow White skin-suit in American conservative “nationalist populist” circles. Every single time.

    • Replies: @Brewer
  130. Jett Rucker says: • Website

    Military Keysianism? Who was Keys? Francis Scott?

  131. @Ron Unz

    By 1967 the Vietnam War was going badly, with mounting American losses and no victory in sight, and if this quagmire continued, the president’s reelection the following year might become very difficult.

    I tend to think LBJ had already decided not to seek reelection prior to the 1967, 6 day Israeli sneak attack. LBJ’s health was very poor – he had been a three pack a day smoker leading to a heart attack in 1955. His wife’s diary attests to his decision not to run going back to 1965, albeit obtusely.

    The press had been demonizing Nasser for years – one has to prep the minds of the public. Nasser was the Saddam Hussein of his day. Rather than LBJ authorizing the attack, it seems more likely he was given his marching orders in advance by his Israeli handlers. Israel was keenly aware of Eisenhower’s actions after 1956. And this time Israel wouldn’t have the Brits and French on their side to share blame if things went awry. They had to know LBJ and others were in the tank.

    Put simply, the 6 Day war was a land grab (Greater Israel). 300,000 Palestinians were expelled and Israel gained the Sinai and Golan Heights to boot. Nasser was foolish to request the removal of UN troops as Egypt was in the middle of a war with Yemen (Egypt’s Vietnam). Egypt, Jordan and Syria had no intentions of driving the Israelis into the sea as western media claimed. All serious scholars privately acknowledge this – black propaganda. The Iraq incubator lies come to mind.

    I think the attack on the Liberty was a classic false flag attack intended to gain Western/American sympathies for Israel’s aggression against Arabs. It all went bad and a U.S. cover-up took place thanks to a bribed and blackmailed U.S. elite.

    I give no credence to a planned nuclear attack on Egypt, though I don’t doubt nukes were in the area which itself could give rise to such theories. It was the middle of the cold war and the Middle East was an area of strategic interest.

    • Replies: @Oscar Peterson
  132. Jett Rucker says: • Website
    @BlackFlag

    “Despite of massive …”

    You write like a sayan (native language: Hebrew).

  133. Mevashir says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    I will not engage with you, Mevashir, because I don’t think you speak/think/act in good faith.

    Have you heard of the Master’s warning: Judge not lest thou be judged?!

    At the end of the day it’s your loss. Thanks for your candor sparing us both from wasting time with each other. May God Bless You.

  134. Good one Ron, several years ago I read Blood In The Water, and the author’s nuke Cairo hypothese really captured my attention. The entire Liberty affair was preplanned, and I believe the ship’s sailing orders prove that, as it took weeks to get her to station, The ships Captain thought the assaignment odd. Would Johnson do something so detestable just to get re-elected? You betcha. Look what he helped do to Kennedy. But it wasn’t only about an election. He was a big man with big appetites, and low morals. It’s conceivable Israel had serious dirt on him. Serious enough to be used for blackmail. It’s all very sordid

  135. Derer says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Furthermore, Specter created a one magic bullet lie from Lee Oswald that killed Kennedy. That is automatically suggesting how Specter wanted to protect the real perpetrators of Kennedy killings.

    • Agree: SolontoCroesus
  136. geokat62 says:

    The following quotes were taken from an article posted on the website 5TJT or The Five Towns Jewish Times:

    A key resource for uncovering LBJ’s pro-Jewish activity is the unpublished 1989 doctoral thesis by University of Texas student Louis Gomolak, “Prologue: LBJ’s Foreign Affairs Background, 1908-1948.” Johnson’s activities were confirmed by other historians in interviews with his wife, family members and political associates…

    Lyndon Johnson’s maternal ancestors, the Huffmans, apparently migrated to Frederick, Maryland from Germany sometime in the mid-eighteenth century. Later they moved to Bourbon, Kentucky and eventually settled in Texas in the mid-to-late nineteenth century.

    According to Jewish law, if a person’s mother is Jewish, then that person is automatically Jewish, regardless of the father’s ethnicity or religion. The facts indicate that both of Lyndon Johnson’s great-grandparents, on the maternal side, were Jewish.

    [MORE]

    These were the grandparents of Lyndon’s mother, Rebecca Baines. Their names were John S. Huffman and Mary Elizabeth Perrin. John Huffman’s mother was Suzanne Ament, a common Jewish name. Perrin is also a common Jewish name.

    Huffman and Perrin had a daughter, Ruth Ament Huffman, who married Joseph Baines and together they had a daughter, Rebekah Baines, Lyndon Johnson’s mother. The line of Jewish mothers can be traced back three generations in Lyndon Johnson’s family tree. There is little doubt that he was Jewish.

    https://nationalvanguard.org/2017/05/jewish-site-claims-lbj-was-a-jew/

    • Thanks: John Wear
  137. lloyd says: • Website
    @Ron Unz

    LBJ was known to engage in private behaviour in ways that with an ordinary citizen would have got him into Court or a mental hospital. He was a flasher exhibitionist. Maybe in Texas this deranged behaviour is less socially pariah but it is reserved to parties and clubs. He was always in his political life a Zionist asset. Would he have ordered a nuclear attack on Egypt? My initial thinking the Pentagon would have blocked that. But the US military were struggling in Vietnam and needed a black swan to get out of there. Pentagon actions in Cuba in that era suggest it can’t be entirely dismissed.

    • Replies: @Patrick McNally
  138. The attack on the Liberty was just another example of the zionist control of the ZUS, 2 of the best books on the attack are Blood in The Water by Joan Mellon and Remember the Liberty by Phillip Nelson, they can be had on amazon.

  139. The question remains: What in the fuck is wrong with the Jews? Will we ever know?

  140. @BlackFlag

    commenter Mevashir remarked in another thread on how even White Nationalists are unable to resist supporting Hollywood. Americans (European ones) are a sick people and that’s why they’ve lost their country.

    Suspect Mevashir is Golda Meier reincarnated, a version of

    “ it will be harder for us to forgive them [Arabs, Americans?] for having forced us to kill their sons.”

    An Empire of Their Own: How the Jews Invented Hollywood
    The overall thesis of this long, meandering book is that the immigrant Jews who started the American film industry had an outsider’s yearning to become part of American society; that their films reflected an idealized version of America; and that these films, in turn, became so influential as to have defined American values. For Neal Gabler, then, the Jews of Hollywood, “by creating their idealized America on the screen, . . . reinvented the country in the image of their fiction”; they “colonized the American imagination.”

    iow, Immigrant Jews “colonized the American imagination” and “sickened European Americans” to the point that they’ve lost their country.

    Mevashir would likely demand that “sickened Americans” forgive “the Jews who invented Hollywood” for “sickening Americans;” no, more than that: embrace Jews like in “Napoleon’s liberalized France.” (That worked out well.)

    [MORE]

    Just as Mevashir demands that Germans who were destroyed, largely at the behest of Jews, continually apologize for attempting to resist Jews who did to Germany what Gabler claims Jews did/are doing to America.

    __________

    Mevashir:

    Have you heard of the Master’s warning: Judge not lest thou be judged?!
    At the end of the day it’s your loss. Thanks for your candor sparing us both from wasting time with each other. May God Bless You.

    My first impulse was to write, Do you realize how offensive your comment is?
    But then I analyzed it more deeply: your comment reflects precisely the evolutionary strategy MacDonald described:

    Crypsis:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypsis

    In ecology, crypsis is the ability of an animal or a plant to avoid observation or detection by other animals. It may be a predation strategy or an antipredator adaptation. Methods include camouflage, nocturnality, subterranean lifestyle and mimicry.
    . . .
    There is a strong evolutionary pressure for animals to blend into their environment or conceal their shape, for prey animals to avoid predators and for predators to be able to avoid detection by prey.

    I suspect it is reasonable that the more one feels threatened, the more intense its resort to “camouflage . . . and mimicry.”

    I grew up as intensely Catholic as one can imagine. In my young years, it was a given that Jews did not eat with- or socialize with non Jews, much less pray Catholic prayers.

    On the other hand, I don’t recall ever putting my Catholicism “on display” around my Catholic classmates much less non-Catholic friends. That would have felt terribly false, or awkward, or some other quality I can’t quite name.

    Mevashir’s overload of “Christian” references are just that — overload. It’s the kinky- black-haired woman bleaching her hair then putting on a wig.
    When something is so obviously overdone, one — I — tend to question that person’s sense of identity, or authenticity: what is she trying to prove? She seems to know she doesn’t quite fit in and is desperately, almost pathetically layering on what she thinks are the markers of the group she seeks to join.
    It’s actually an insult to the larger group, and it also acts as a warning signal: the larger group (naturally, I think) becomes suspicious, perhaps even fearful: “This person is so obviously trying to conceal something. What? Why?”

    Masking yourself with Christian-y phrases just makes you look false, Mevashir. And “false” makes you seem untrustworthy.

    https://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2019/06/21/jewishness-and-the-culture-of-crypsis/

    Professor Kevin MacDonald sees crypto-Judaism as “an authentic case of crypsis quite analogous to cases of mimetic camouflage in the natural world.” This even applies, according to MacDonald, to the sincere converts who nevertheless maintain group separatism—those who, while willingly accepting the water of baptism, believe that it has not changed the nature of the blood flowing in their veins, and who care to maintain the purity of that Jewish blood. “Indeed, one might note that New Christians who maintained group separatism while sincerely accepting Christianity were really engaging in a very interesting evolutionary strategy—a true case of crypsis entirely analogous to crypsis in the natural world. Such people would be even more invisible to the surrounding society than crypto-Jews, because they would attend church regularly, not circumcise themselves, eat pork, etc., and have no psychological qualms about doing so. […] Psychological acceptance of Christianity may have been the best possible means of continuing Judaism as a group evolutionary strategy during the period of the Inquisition.”

  141. @lloyd

    Probably the strongest argument against the thesis of LBJ wanting to nuke Egypt as an electoral maneuver is that it would have run against all of his previous campaign strategies. In the 1964 election LBJ specifically blasted Goldwater over the casual way he talked about using nukes as a defoliant in Vietnam. It’s hard to imagine that the voters who cast for LBJ in 1964 would have been won over in 1968 by a nuke attack in 1967. More likely is that this would have blown apart any remaining shreds of support for LBJ. Nor would it have won him any affection from the Goldwater crowd, who would have recognized the hypocrisy.

    A natural query to raise about this hypothesis is whether or not anything was ever leaked to Nasser. In the pre-nuclear era great powers could sometimes try to face each other down with a bluff act. The atomic age induced some restrictions on this, because of the danger of unleashing atomic war. But the tactic could still sometimes be used by great powers against small states like North Korea. If it could be shown that there was some kind of information leak to Nasser so that he was hearing reports about LBJ planning to nuke him then this might be evidence of such a bluff game. If Nasser never received any such reports then that would undercut this type of hypothesis.

  142. Eagle Eye says:
    @dms578

    Commander William McGonagle who was on the Liberty … overheard a transmission between an Israeli pilot and his base ….

    In what language did this exchange between an Israeli pilot and the Israeli base station occur? Did Israelis in 1967 already follow the Star Trek convention that aliens all conveniently speak English?

    • Replies: @Oscar Peterson
    , @Ron Unz
  143. I read up until the Tonkin argument. And it is not a bad argument. The attack on USS Liberty as completely initiated Israeli project seem a bit hair brained. But if the initiative came from the Johnson administration this would make it less strange.

    Anyway, I will continue this read tomorrow.

  144. @Tdstype2

    What is wrong with USA is that it is not a nation. Originally it was conceived as a state where people would be free to pursue their own destiny. Rather than to be forced to submit to to destiny of their people. However, this means, by necessity, that US foreign policy is up for grabs. US foreign policy can never be anything than a prostitute, up for grabs for whoever pays the most or has the best lobby operation.

  145. ‘..The Israelis claimed that they initially assumed that the Liberty was a warship because it was traveling at a high speed of nearly 30 knots, but the ship’s speed during that entire period had merely been 5 knots, slower by a factor of six…’

    More evidence that the Zionists are disproportionately the most dim-witted of Jews. That lie is really lame.

    Great piece so far, by the way. Going to share with friends and family.

  146. I have not seen this four part documentary yet but I have heard it is good. https://www.sacrificingliberty.com/

  147. dimples says:

    Re Blood on the Water: “Unfortunately, the contents were almost exactly as I had originally assumed, filled with implausible speculations, unwarranted assertions, and huge leaps of logic. Unsubstantiated claims were endlessly repeated, apparently in hopes of bludgeoning the reader into eventual acceptance. And although the text was purportedly written by a tenured professor of English at a small university, the editing was among the worst of any professionally-published book I had ever encountered, with the same sentence—or even the same short paragraph—sometimes duplicated on consecutive pages; such severe stylistic flaws merely deepened my skepticism about the credibility of the substantive material presented. ”

    I have to agree with assessment. After being assured (on this blog) that Blood on the Water was the best book on the Liberty affair (almost certainly by somebody who had not read it) I lashed out and bought a copy. Sadly I found it was the rambling and incoherent mess as described above.

    Was the whole Liberty thing about nuking Cairo? How many nukes does it take to blow up Cairo? One I would expect. Therefore I kinda doubt the stories about fleets of armed nuclear bombers heading there only to be recalled at the last minute, unless it was a cowboy fun thing. Would the US attack another country with nukes in compensation for the loss of a small ship? Yes the US is a looney bin but still this does not make a lot of sense considering the mega international opprobrium it would produce not to mention the radioactive fallout.

    The whole thing smells of a cowboy affair. The Liberty was sitting there, its false flag purpose no longer necessary as the Jews had won the war, so the Jews blew it up for fun. It was a test of the loyalty of their new shabbos goy, the US, which passed the test with flying colors.

  148. @Patrick McNally

    “Probably the strongest argument against the thesis of LBJ wanting to nuke Egypt as an electoral maneuver is that it would have run against all of his previous campaign strategies.”

    Yes, I absolutely agree that the LBJ who wouldn’t mine Haiphong harbor, destroy the Red River dams, or go into Laos to block the Ho Chi Minh Trail hardly seems likely to have tried some uber-risky scheme leading to use of nuclear weapons in the Middle East where the world’s oil supply lay.

    Don’t know why anyone would even entertain this notion.

    • Replies: @Truth Vigilante
  149. @Herd Stupidity

    I think the attack on the Liberty was a classic false flag attack intended to gain Western/American sympathies for Israel’s aggression against Arabs.

    Yet the ship’s captain testified that the motor torpedo boats that attacked the Liberty were flying Israeli flags/ensigns.

    That doesn’t sound like a sound basis for a false-flag attack (although false-flag attacks are certainly an Israeli speciality.)

  150. @Franz

    Mark Aarons was once a pretty good writer, then he got dementia zionazistica, and the rest is comedy gold. I think the reverse, or double-headed, paranoia got to him. If you have been brainwashed for 3500 years to hate and fear all others, and those who rejected this universal ocean of hatred simply left the cult, it is imprinted socially, and probably genetically as well.

  151. Old Timer says:

    This article lengthy and supposedly in depth never mentioned the film by Trunews made recently and accesible at trunews.com that had first hand accounts from the survivors themselves. The film documents with 4hrs of film the Liberty attack from the survivors real life accounts themselves..
    Go to http://www.sacrificingliberty.com to watch online, buy the cd’s etc.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @Ron Unz
  152. @Antediluvian Doomer

    Their continued survival as a distinct cult, a cult founded on fear and hatred, is the problem. If they’d been subsumed in other tribes and collectives, as were 99% of Bronze Age societies, the hatred may have been somewhat lessened. Unnatural selection over 3500 years, where those who rejected universal hatred simply left the cult, or were purged, endogamy and ruthless brainwashing by the rabbis, plus rabbi-inflicted social isolation is, in my opinion, the answer. And today most Jews are fairly sane, and it is only the truly Evil ‘elites’ in business, finance, politics and the brainwashing apparatus, in Israel and in the captive nations of the West, who are such a blight on humanity.

    • Agree: Robjil
  153. @One-off

    I don’t buy the atrocities argument. Murdering captured troops and civilians is old Zionazi practise, praised by the Talmudists as mitzvot. The Western MSM, even then, would have denied it as ‘antisemitism’, even though it was a lively subject of disputation inside Israel ever since the similar massacres in 1956.

    • Replies: @Oscar Peterson
    , @One-off
  154. Mevashir says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    I am completely ostracized from the Jewish community. I can’t open it up to you and I don’t have to because it already is. Christian Zionist Pastor Hagee once commented that he has nothing to do with Messianic Jews because they offend his Israeli partners. Hagee regularly stages night to honor Israel events with the Orthodox Rabbi in San Antonio. They are totally comfortable together.

    [MORE]

    As far as being a crypto, that’s simply a function of your own paranoia. I consider myself ethnically a Jew and spiritually a Christian. If it makes you feel better you could consider me a Jewish authority on comparative religion because I also have studied Islam. I am Christian enough to be disdained and rejected by the Jewish community and Jewish enough to be deported to Auschwitz by Hitler. If I were lucky I might be martyred there alongside the Catholic martyr Saint Maximilian Kolbe.

    Your comments simply reflect your racism. You foolishly consider Christianity to be a white man’s religion when it is growing rapidly in the third world among people who are black brown and yellow. Christ was a middle eastern Jew of dark or olive complexion. You people have hijacked and stolen the Jewish Savior and used him as a cudgel to beat his own people. Most Jews are not as broad-minded as I am and hate Christianity largely because of the contempt with which they are treated by Christians. As for me I adopt Gandhi’s perspective when he said I like your Christ just not your Christians. Your attitude is precisely why I no longer attend any church.

    In his letter to Romans chapter 11 Paul tells the Gentiles not to be arrogant to the cut off branches of Israel, in other words Jews who don’t believe in Christ. He reminds them that they are engrafted into the Olive tree of Israel and that as branches they are supported by the root and they do not support the root. Your comments reflect precisely the haughtiness contempt and disdain that Saint Paul warned against and worried about.

    Rather than being engrafted humbly you have arrogantly tried to hijack the whole faith for yourselves. One day there will be a black brown or yellow Pope in Rome and then what will you white racists do? You might just choke on your communion wafers. By the way those too will become darkened as people realize that there was no such thing as white flour in the time of Jesus. White flower today is produced by toxic bleaching which wasn’t available 2000 years ago. So when a black pope officiates a Mass using a brown Eucharist wafer either you will swallow it in humility and learn your place or you will choke to death with your rage and contempt. It’s a win-win for the rest of us.

    If you aren’t prepared to stop treating other racial and ethnic groups with contempt, then be honest enough to stop your hypocritical global evangelism. Are you preaching to people to turn them into your spiritual slaves or do you seek to elevate them to a position of spiritual equality?

    Others have commented here on the absurdity of white unity. European whites have been slaughtering each other in warfare for the last 2,000 years. The only thing that restrained them was the Roman Catholic church and that only sporadically. In the early 20th century the WASP elites in America disdained Southern European immigrants from Italy or Greece because they were of darker complexion. The English and the French have been at war for centuries. The two great white nationalist leaders Hitler and Stalin fought each other to the death and bled Europe dry.

    So please spare us all the soap opera theatrics about white nationalism and unity. The only thing you people are good at is whining and complaining and cowering in victimhood. Meanwhile you use abortion and contraception to stop your natural population growth. And you allow Hispanic Catholics to flood into the country and replace you all. Most of your problems are of your own making as far as I can see because you embraced the shallow allures of American materialism and forsook your spiritual calling.

    • Thanks: IreneAthena
    • Replies: @Lysias
    , @anon
    , @Mevashir
  155. Lysias says:
    @anarchyst

    When LBJ said he didn’t want to embarrass an ally, it was before the sailors on the Liberty had identified the nationality of the attackers. LBJ knew they were Israelis before the sailors on the Liberty did. Proving that he had foreknowledge.

    • Agree: acementhead
    • Replies: @Oscar Peterson
  156. old one says:
    @War for Blair Mountain

    I was sitting at my desk, eating my lunch, and reading the internet. This was some time ago. There was an announcement that researchers at University of Texas had found information on the attack on the Liberty. Apparently, the information was a recording of LBJ telling someone on the phone that he wanted that xxxxx ship on the bottom. The recording was played on the internet at the time.

    Maybe someone could find it in the papers at UT Texas?

  157. @Lysias

    When LBJ said he didn’t want to embarrass an ally, it was before the sailors on the Liberty had identified the nationality of the attackers. LBJ knew they were Israelis before the sailors on the Liberty did. Proving that he had foreknowledge.

    I don’t think it proves that.

    The ship’s captain, McGonagle testified that he saw Israeli flags on the motor torpedo boats that attacked the Liberty, so he at least had some inkling almost from the start of who was attacking.

    Johnson would have had information funneled to him, including the Israeli admission that there had been an attack albeit, they claimed, an accidental one, so it’s not unreasonable that he would have had a clearer picture than those on the stricken ship.

    • Replies: @Lysias
    , @Ron Unz
  158. @mulga mumblebrain

    I don’t buy the atrocities argument.

    No, none of the three theories–atrocities in Egypt, Syria invasion, and the especially nutty one about nuking Egypt–makes any real sense. That’s the basic problem with the theory that Israel planned the attack on the Liberty.

  159. @Eagle Eye

    The transmission in question was intercepted and transcribed by Hebrew linguists on a USAF EC-121 that was flying in the area.

  160. Lysias says:
    @Mevashir

    The first Christians were Christian Jews. People that appear prominently in the Acts of the Apostles.

    Do people like Hagee read the New Testament?

    • Replies: @Mevashir
    , @Minnesota Mary
  161. Ron Unz says:
    @Eagle Eye

    In what language did this exchange between an Israeli pilot and the Israeli base station occur? Did Israelis in 1967 already follow the Star Trek convention that aliens all conveniently speak English?

    Obviously Hebrew. That’s why the NSA had staffed their EC-121 spyplane with a group of Hebrew linguists tasked with monitoring the Israeli traffic and doing rapid translations. The head of the team was Marvin E. Nowicki, who provided James Bamford with a very long and detailed written account of the events. You should take a look at Bamford’s highly-regarded book, which was published twenty years ago.

    • Replies: @Eagle Eye
  162. The US Corporate Media has made the topic of the USS Liberty nearly invisible, so it’s refreshing to see a mention of it. The downside is that I tend to end up in a helpless rage. The coverup and suppression of the story extends to every single member of the US Congress. (Apologies to the one or two execeptions – if they exist.) My very own Indiana Senator Todd Young graduated from the US Naval Academy, yet he is a complete toady for the murderous and thieving settler state. Sellouts like him don’t give a damn about dead Navy men.

    I appreciate learning about the Chicago Tribune article, and it has been downloaded for study. I’ll proceed cautiously with the newer Liberty books, none of which I was aware of. An exception is Cristol – I won’t waste a single minute with anything by that S.O.W.

    On the rare occasions I see something about the 1967 attack, I try to contribute a bit by uploading some pages from the US Naval Institute Proceedings of the era. This is a time before the publication was ‘captured’ by the little pissant state. These days I pass on their rag even if I find issues on a “free” table.

    https://ufile.io/pv3xnx1b

  163. Lysias says:
    @Oscar Peterson

    The first attack on the Liberty was by unmarked planes that later turned out to be Israeli. The later attack by motor torpedo boats occurred later, after LBJ had already said he didn’t want to embarrass his ally.

    • Replies: @Oscar Peterson
  164. BlackFlag says:
    @Oscar Peterson

    Nuclear war seems crazy but a pretext for getting involved in the war makes perfect sense. US does this all the time. But I wonder if they really even need to. Seems like they could say it was a war for freedom and the public would go along. Maybe grudgingly at first but in the end they would retcon it in their own mind. Revilo Oliver took it for granted that once the public learned about how FDR administration had hoodwinked the public into getting involved in WW2, there would be blood in the streets. But nothing ever happened. But maybe another war without a strong pretext would be especially tough at that time when the Vietnam War was going on.

  165. Ron Unz says:
    @Oscar Peterson

    The ship’s captain, McGonagle testified that he saw Israeli flags on the motor torpedo boats that attacked the Liberty, so he at least had some inkling almost from the start of who was attacking.

    McGonagle’s testimony is extremely doubtful on all sorts of matters, including that one, entirely conflicting with the recollection of almost every other surviving member of the crew. There’s a very widespread belief that he was “bought off” by the Congressional Medal of Honor he received, and said whatever he was told to say.

    Don’t forget that according to top members of the Johnson Administration a couple of hours later at the morning Situation Room meeting no one was yet aware that the Israelis had been the attackers, and most suspected the Soviets.

  166. One-off says:
    @mulga mumblebrain

    No doubt the media would have obfuscated or ignored the atrocities story as happened with the Liberty attack. The problem was not the domestic American audience. I’ve thought about it quite a bit and the atrocities would have been easily exploited by Nasser, who was a key leader of the non-aligned movement, which terrified D.C., London and Tel Aviv because his secular Arabism had gained real traction at one point and the non-aligned movement was tilting slightly toward the Soviet Union, which arguably was at its imperial height in 1967. A good case can be made that the USSR’s power was greatest from the time the Hungarian Uprising was put down until the Prague Spring the year after the Liberty attack. Some would extend that to 1975 and the communist victory in Vietnam, but the decay had set in by that time.

    American atrocities, real and imagined, in Vietnam had rallied much of the non-aligned world against it. Its puppet/puppet master’s atrocities in the Sinai would have furthered a narrative that weakened Israel and the United States. The world had changed dramatically between 1956 and 1967 and not in Israel’s favor. Yes, the United States was now Israel’s bitch, but large swathes of the globe had coalesced against the Jewish state.

    I’ve read some accounts–and yes, I’m skeptical, too, that the massacres in the Egyptian Desert were rogue and spontaneous. I cannot completely discount that. Regardless, it was not a good time for them to become public knowledge because Israel had achieved in 1967 what it could not in 1956: the seizure of the Sinai. It had to revert to its tried and true tactic of playing victim and knowledge about the massacres (Ron may have understated the case because there are reports villages in the desert simply were wiped off the face of the Earth) would have given the Soviets a freer hand to intervene on behalf of Nasser. This aspect doesn’t get the attention it deserves but the Six Days War easily could have led to a n all-out nuclear war, and that’s not taking into account the remarkable American bomber claims.

  167. Ron Unz says:
    @IreneAthena

    …then I hope more and more Christian Zionists would hear about that miracle….

    Actually, I hadn’t realized I’d used the word “miracle” three times in the text, probably more than I should have. But the survival of the Liberty really was quite astonishing.

    Many hundreds of such “Victory” ships were built during WWII, and one of the books mentioned that none had ever survived a single torpedo strike, while five torpedoes were fired at the Liberty, with one hitting. Supposedly, two or three such torpedoes would have sunk the largest battleship.

    Jury-rigging that one antenna to get the SOS out was also a remarkable feat, especially given the constant jamming. Reading the Ennes book, there were clearly four or five points when the ship was nearly lost, and if the crew had panicked, they all surely would have perished.

    • Thanks: IreneAthena
  168. RobinG says:
    @geokat62

    Norman Finkelstein said that? Wow! Geo, you are a font.

    • Replies: @Zumbuddi
  169. Ron Unz says:
    @Patrick McNally

    Probably the strongest argument against the thesis of LBJ wanting to nuke Egypt as an electoral maneuver is that it would have run against all of his previous campaign strategies…It’s hard to imagine that the voters who cast for LBJ in 1964 would have been won over in 1968 by a nuke attack in 1967.

    Well, don’t forget the enormous MSM influence of Jewish groups, which were opposed to the Vietnam War but intensely pro-Israel and would have shaped the coverage.

    Consider that Israel had initiated the Six Day War with a “sneak attack” against its Arab neighbors, not all that different from Pearl Harbor, and then seized and kept large portions of territory after explicitly promising not to do so, not to mention committing massive war-crimes. Yet the MSM “spin” turned black into white and up into down, and I think the American public supported Israel’s “defensive fight for survival” by massively lopsided margins.

    After a few fish splashes in Tonkin Gulf, LBJ bombed North Vietnam in retaliation, and got overwhelming support. If the Egyptians had treacherously attacked and massacred 300 American seamen in international waters, almost like another Pearl Harbor, a far stronger retaliatory strike might have seemed reasonable, especially if the MSM spun it that way.

    I believe that the notion LBJ had ordered a nuclear strike against Egypt in 1967 is preposterous, outlandish, ridiculous, and absurd. But a whole bunch of people who were actually there at the time seem to say he did, and I can’t totally disregard their personal testimony.

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-remembering-the-liberty/#a-nuclear-strike-against-egypt

    • Replies: @nsa
    , @turtle
    , @Suede
  170. anon[227] • Disclaimer says:

    So let me see if I got this straight; A US ship gets attacked and no one cares? But all of you care because the Israeli’s did it during a war?
    What about this;
    “the USS Cole, on October 12, 2000. Suicide bombers in a small boat steered their craft into the side of the USS Cole, which was preparing to refuel in the harbour in the Yemeni port of Aden; the blast ripped a 1,600-square-foot (150-square-metre) hole in its hull and left 17 sailors dead and 39 wounded.

    In 2004 a Yemeni court tried Saudi-born ʿAbd al-Raḥīm al-Nashīrī in absentia for the USS Cole attack and sentenced him to death; U.S. military prosecutors filed charges against him in 2008”
    https://www.britannica.com/event/USS-Cole-attack

    No one talks about it.
    What about this;
    “On February 26, 1993, a bomb exploded in a parking garage of the World Trade Center (WTC) in New York City. This event was the first indication for the Diplomatic Security Service (DSS) that terrorism was evolving from a regional phenomenon outside of the United States to a transnational phenomenon.”
    https://www.state.gov/1993-world-trade-center-bombing/

    Your all so pathetic

    • Replies: @Anon
  171. gregor says:
    @raga10

    “I don’t know… I still don’t see what Israelis stood to gain from this attack.”

    I can’t tell what you arguing. It feels like you are trying to defend the Israelis without making the case directly.

    Are you saying that because there is some uncertainty over the motive, that therefore they must not be guilty? Because that argument just doesn’t work. The motive is certainly of interest, but Israeli guilt in this case has been established independently. If the cops catch a guy standing over a body with a bloody knife, then we know the guy’s guilty with or without a known motive.

    If you want to argue that the Israelis made an honest mistake, then you need to confront the evidence to the contrary.

    • Agree: fnn
    • Replies: @raga10
  172. Eagle Eye says:
    @Ron Unz

    Indeed, the conversation between pilot and base obviously would have been in Hebrew, not English. That is one reason why the “NSA had staffed their EC-121 spyplane with a group of Hebrew linguists …” as Ron points out.

    Conversely, this means that McGonagle on the stricken Liberty could not have casually “overheard” [and understood] the conversation in real time. It is extremely doubtful that in 1967, less than 20 years from the founding of the State of Israel, anyone on board the Liberty would have been fluent in modern Hebrew. The NSA’s few Hebrew linguists at the time would have been deployed closer to the action, such as on the EC-121 spyplane.

    As Ron has pointed out, McGonagle’s statements on other points also appear highly dubious and contradictory, so the “overheard” radio exchange, while making for a great movie scene, is another important point on which he was talking out of the wrong orifice.

    McGonagle was simply not a “percipient witness” with respect to any radio exchange in Hebrew, and his claims are best disregarded entirely.

  173. harfang67 says:

    “Planning to sacrifice a few hundred American lives….to bolster his reelection chances…”.

    How about the 3000 American Lives in 9/11 to launch the “Greater Israël project” ? I see a similar pattern of action involving a certain American leadership again and the use of the nation’s ressources.

    What is needed now is how to prefict such events from known events, as they unfold. Like for example : is creating an incident in Japan, blaiming it on China, to create a China-Japan war so that with AUKUS, western financial oligarchy would have succeeded in weakening China and maintaining it’s world predominance?

    With your deep analysis of things, we are more and more able to understand what is going on in the world to the point where we understand the actions of this western power buy analysing the values framing and supporting their actions. Israël Shamir in his “Caballa of Power” gives us a good idea of the ideology behind all this.

  174. @Ron Unz

    What makes his testimony on that point doubtful? Did other crew members assert specifically that there were no flags on the MTBs?

    Regardless of that particular question, the attack, as executed, was simply not consistent with the kind of clandestine operation that Israel would have needed to conduct if it really wanted to destroy the Liberty. The likelihood of torpedo boats and planes on daylight missions being identified as Israeli was always high.

    And the fact that the Israelis were chattering about it, even in Hebrew, when they knew US SIGINT assets were collecting also belies the notion of pre-planned attack. If you are going to do that kind of thing, you take precautions to ensure deniability.

    In considering the Liberty affair, we need to keep in mind the Israeli government’s risk-reward calculus. How could anybody possibly justify the risk such an operation would have entailed?

    No way do I see Levi Eshkol signing off on it–and it would have had to have gone to him.

    As far as Lysias’s point about who knew what and when, I take your point, but it certainly does not support Lysias’s claim of LJB foreknowledge.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  175. Ron Unz says:
    @Old Timer

    This article lengthy and supposedly in depth never mentioned the film by Trunews made recently and accesible at trunews.com that had first hand accounts from the survivors themselves. The film documents with 4hrs of film the Liberty attack from the survivors real life accounts themselves..

    Thanks, I’ll admit I never heard of it, but I’ll take a look.

    I almost never get my information from videos, though I did actually watch the hour-long BBC documentary because it accompanied the Hounam book. I tend to regard videos as just propaganda, and my guess is that the book contained 50x as much useful information.

  176. Grant says:

    and on 17 Dec 1967 Australia’s Prime Minister, Harold Holt, disappears. Holt was reticent to join the Vietnam conflict, the subsequent PM McEwen was not, ditto the two following conservative PMs, none of which lasted long in the job.

  177. anon[161] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mevashir

    You are one twisted matzo!

  178. @Lysias

    The first attack on the Liberty was by unmarked planes that later turned out to be Israeli. The later attack by motor torpedo boats occurred later, after LBJ had already said he didn’t want to embarrass his ally.

    The first attack was by two French-build Mirage aircraft that only Israel (of countries in the region) possessed. Is that not an obvious signature? Why would Israel use Mirages if they were trying to ensure deniability?

    The initiation of the air attack took place just before 2pm local time. the MTBs attacked around 2:45, so there wasn’t much time between the two. The claim about LBJ saying he would not embarrass his ally is a fourth hand claim that supposedly went from Johnson to Admiral Geiss to Lieutenant Commander Lewis to one of the authors–Ennis, I think. And all this except the alleged conversation between Johnson and Geiss happened long after the fact. I see no concrete evidence that LBJ somehow knew in advance (i.e., that he was part of a conspiracy to sink the Liberty.)

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  179. @Patrick McNally

    You got be kidding. It was the intransigence of the polish govt that led to world war ll.Of course the limeys helped it along!!

    • Replies: @Patrick McNally
  180. Ron Unz says:
    @Oscar Peterson

    What makes his testimony on that point doubtful? Did other crew members assert specifically that there were no flags on the MTBs?

    I think there were numerous statements by Liberty survivors that they had absolutely no idea the attackers were Israeli during that entire period, which strongly indicates that the MTBs weren’t marked with flags. They explicitly claim that McGongle’s official testimony was false on all sorts of other important issues, so I really wouldn’t trust him on that one.

    And the fact that the Israelis were chattering about it, even in Hebrew, when they knew US SIGINT assets were collecting also belies the notion of pre-planned attack. If you are going to do that kind of thing, you take precautions to ensure deniability.

    They certainly weren’t aware of the NSA spyplane then monitoring their conversations, and they’d knocked out all the Liberty‘s transmission antennas and were about to sink it, so who else would have been listening?

    No way do I see Levi Eshkol signing off on it–and it would have had to have gone to him.

    Not at all. Eshkol had effectively been pushed aside when the special war cabinet was established, and he’d lost all authority. For example, a day or two later Defense Minister Moshe Dayan unilaterally decided to invade Syria, gave the order without consulting anyone, and it happened. As I mentioned, there was a CIA intelligence report claiming that Dayan was the one who ordered the attack on the Liberty, which may or may not be correct.

    • Replies: @Oscar Peterson
    , @Ron Unz
  181. Anon[407] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    Wolfiwitz cared . So did Laura Mylorie and the net batch of neocons who came to shape and hijsck US’s ME policies after 911 . They cared so much that they forced US ignore the threat from Al Quiada .

    Did US judge from Florida sentence the Israeli leaders to death in abstentia?

    Did Israel try to get US attack Egypt in 1956 ? Didn’t Israel kill some Americans in Egypt to provoke US?

    Now doesn’t Israel try to kill Americans to get US invade Iran ? They did in Beirut in 83 indirectly .

  182. Jeffrey Epstein surely wasn’t the first intelligence asset of the ****hole state to ensnare a US president.

    https://vintage.justworldnews.org/2018/01/the-other-lives-of-mrs-krim/

    Johnson was a womanizer who tried very hard to out-pace JFK in that arena. He was also a very corrupt man. The lovely Mrs. Krim and others of her type would have surely provided reams of material suitable for blackmail – the “stick”. Piles of money would have been the “carrot” for the greedy LBJ.

    Add to all that Johnson still planned to run for a second term. I think he’d have done anything to keep in the good graces of the Apartheid state.

  183. kfeto says:

    Could it be that -still patriotic- elements within the security establishment sank the INS Dakar in retaliation?

  184. northeast says:
    @raga10

    It’s no longer a mystery if Israel attacked the Liberty, they did. What is left to be clarified is the exact motive.

  185. Jett Rucker says: • Website
    @Antediluvian Doomer

    There’s nothing “wrong” with the Jews. They’re really just like us, only maybe a little more-so …
    My kids are Jewish, but I’m not. And they’re a lot like me, only …

  186. @Ron Unz

    I think there were numerous statements by Liberty survivors that they had absolutely no idea the attackers were Israeli during that entire period, which strongly indicates that the MTBs weren’t marked with flags.

    Not necessarily. Most of the crew would have been focused on its narrow tasks of damage control and response to the air attacks. It would have been very chaotic. McGonagle on the bridge, with binoculars and/or other magnification devices, would have been much more likely than most to be able to focus on observing and identifying the attacking boats.

    They certainly weren’t aware of the NSA spyplane then monitoring their conversations,

    Why would they have been “certainly unaware of the EC-121 presence? And even if they were unaware of that specific aircraft, they knew of the capability and that the US had intentions to use SIGINT collectors in the theater. There were also the SIGINT collectors at the US embassy. If this was a plot to attack the Liberty, the Israelis certainly went about it in a very insouciant (and ultimately ineffective) way.

    Eshkol had effectively been pushed aside when the special war cabinet was established, and he’d lost all authority.

    OK, but I don’t see anyone else approving it either, including Dayan. Attacking Syria was of a piece with plenty of previous Israeli unilateral moves around its periphery. But trying to sink a US ship is in an entirely different category.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @Alden
  187. Jett Rucker says: • Website
    @anarchyst

    It’s my recollection (no, I haven’t received one myself) that the Congressional Medal of Honor is awarded in (a joint session of) Congress. The White House/President has nothing to do with the ceremony.
    I’d say LBJ’s White House should have become a glass parking lot as well.

  188. Ron Unz says:
    @Oscar Peterson

    The claim about LBJ saying he would not embarrass his ally is a fourth hand claim that supposedly went from Johnson to Admiral Geiss to Lieutenant Commander Lewis to one of the authors–Ennis

    No, you’re entirely mistaken. That’s just one of the two sources. Here’s the other one, from the long Chicago Tribune article:

    Tony Hart, a former communications operator at a relay station remembers listening to the words of Secretary of Defense McNamara as he personally ordered the recall of the jets sent to rescue the Liberty: “President [Lyndon] Johnson is not going to go to war or embarrass an American ally over a few sailors.” This independently confirmed the account reported by a Liberty officer a few years earlier in Bamford’s book.

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-remembering-the-liberty/#p_1_47

    • Replies: @Oscar Peterson
  189. LYNDON JOHNSON HAD SCORES AND SCORES OF smart, capable, useful, intelligent Zionist Jews around him. If the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty was intentional THEN THAT AUTOMATICALLY MEANS THAT LYNDON JOHNSON ORCHESTRATED THE MURDER ATTEMPT ON ALL 294 SAILORS ON THE USS LIBERTY.

    There is no ifs, and, ors or buts about it. The Zionist Jews who ran Israel were in extremely close and constant contact with the smart, capable, influential Jews around Lyndon Johnson.

    Here is my rough research file on the scores of Jews and Zionist Jews who were friends with Lyndon Johnson: http://robertmorrowpoliticalresearchblog.blogspot.com/2021/08/lyndon-johnson-was-hyper-zionist-who.html

  190. BorisMay says:
    @mulga mumblebrain

    I was writing, if you care to read what I actually wrote, about democracy, not liberal democracy.

    Democracy in its true form is rule by the people, for the people. In this form there are jubilees, where all debt is cancelled and land ownership redistributed thus preventing the obscene wealth accumulation of liberal democracies as seen in the west today.

    Liberal democracy is dictatorship, better referred to as ‘controlled democracy’ where the oligarchs in conjunction with the corrupted political class delineate what the people may think, believe and do.

    In the old days liberal democracy was better described as fascism, and more recently as corporatism. For better understanding by the largely ignorant masses fascism is better. All western governments including the US, UK and the EU are fascist. The lie that says they are not is just window dressing.

    Your arguments are window dressing. Liberal democracy is fascism by another name. I was writing about democracy.

    • Replies: @mulga mumblebrain
  191. Mr. Unz used the word “miracle”, and IMO it’s not entirely unjustified. The attack on the USS Liberty ought to have been a slam dunk, but the ship survived. Back in 2000 when I was still a newbie on the internet, I was on the rightwingnut IndyStar forum debating an ugly Zionist troll who styled himself “Big Dave”. He was claiming the attack was impossible because the Israeli airplanes used napalm. Here are some excerpts from what I was writing on April of 2000.

    It {the attack} almost worked. If that Israeli pilot who flew home after recognizing the American Ship had stayed and dumped his loads of death, the planned mass-murder very well might have worked.

    But the deep understanding of these matters by our resident Naval Expert and his equally deep trust in W H O R E S of all stripes means all this is some silly fantasy. Hey, that was 1967, and those stupid American Sailors were probably on LSD, and that of course would explain the “wall of flames”. NO NAPALM!!

    Internet stories say the pilot who didn’t attack the Liberty was arrested on his arrival back at the base.

    ***

    Big Dave finally gets something right about this incident. The attack was strictly Amateur Hour stuff. Fortunately for the USS Liberty Israel didn’t have any dive bombers. It’s quite possible that in the rush to sink our ship they couldn’t scrape up any large iron bombs in time for the operation, or such bombs as they had were needed for the continued pounding of the Syrian positions in the Golan Heights. (this was at the end of a large war, and munition stocks had to be getting low. In the 1973 war we had to rush in with a major resupply effort to save their bacon) To me the operation was poorly coordinated too. Those torpedo boats should have arrived with the jets, and they sure should have scored 100% against a slow and undefended intelligence ship. Perhaps the torpedo crewmen were reservists who had little or no practice, or more likely, some of them shot to miss. That American flag was huge, and they couldn’t possibly have missed seeing it. A smart torpedo boat crewman with a functioning conscience would have all kinds of excuses if he fired, but missed.

    Unprovable, of course, but I think it would be very difficult for even reservists to miss 4 out of 5 torpedo shots at a nearby and slow-moving target.

    Every nation has pond scum among its citizens. You can find torturers and murderers and any other kind of criminal anywhere if you look hard enough.

    So it stands to reason that the Apartheid state – despite the disgusting nature of most citizens and all leaders – has some good people. People who were not prepared to participate in sinking the Liberty and murdering the US sailors.

    Another plane load of explosives/napalm, or a second/third torpedo, and I doubt if the Liberty would have survived.

  192. @Ron Unz

    Tony Hart, a former communications operator at a relay station remembers listening to the words of Secretary of Defense McNamara as he personally ordered the recall of the jets sent to rescue the Liberty: “President [Lyndon] Johnson is not going to go to war or embarrass an American ally over a few sailors.” This independently confirmed the account reported by a Liberty officer a few years earlier in Bamford’s book.

    Sorry, but I don’t accept that as a confirmation of any kind.

    The idea that the SECDEF would actually say or write that in giving guidance to naval commanders is entirely ludicrous. Even if it were true, he would never say that. If a transcript that supports Tony Hart’s recollection is declassified and released, then I’ll accept it as evidence but not until then, since the language allegedly employed is so implausible.

    And again, it does not support the contention that LBJ had some sort of foreknowledge of the attack which was Lysias’s original point.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  193. I don’t know if Al Jazeera’s 2014 49min film “The Day Israel attacked America” has been mentioned . It’s good and is right there, on you tube (just google).

    I read the Mellon book shortly after its publishing and was shocked that a library had it. The great reading resource is not know for carrying “Liberty” books. I have yet to read the Hounam book though I’ve heard much about it.

    I found the LBJ theories unconvincing. Particularly since he gave the well known writer Hugh Sidey an off-the-record interview shortly after the mass-casualty attack. The President told Sidey (Newsweek) he knew who was culpable and it was no accident. It was after this interview, Adm. Bobby Inman has been quoted as saying, ‘that Israel felt threatened by being exposed in the attack and they would view LBJ as contributing to a”blood libel” response and they would act accordingly.

    I’ve never heard of anyone who did not have a vested interest say they believe Israel’s mistake excuses. Abba Eban had a meeting about a week before the 6-day war with LBJ. Johnson did not seem to want any part of a conflict in which the Soviet Union had client state (Syria) in the shootout for obvious reasons. That said the US apparently took part to (secretly) fly recon for the IDF. If I’m remembering correctly this was the first time the US-SU hotline was used. The idea was to back off, not aid allies.

  194. @Anon62

    After I was in the navy (about 5 years after the Liberty attack) I was told the Commander 6th Fleet did not know the Liberty was in his command area ( my ship was assigned to 6th fleet and was homeported in Naples, Italy). As a result, the Israelis were told there was no US ship in the vicinity after they inquired. From what I saw coming from naval commanders, that seemed entirely probable.

  195. turtle says:
    @Lysias

    It’s a bit of an exaggeration to say that the Liberty was “armed”

    To my knowledge, this is a legal distinction. Any Navy veterans invited to either confirm or correct. Armed vessels of the U.S Navy carry the designation Unites States Ship. Unarmed vessels, such as hospital ships, carry the designation United States Naval Ship (USNS).
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Naval_Ship

    U.S. Navy ships commissioned into service have the designation “USS” and are armed*, crewed by U.S. Navy personnel, and held in property by the United States Government.

    *however lightly

    The vessel which was attacked was the USS Liberty.

    Attacking a commissioned naval vessel of another nation is an act of war, AFAIK.
    (IANAL)

  196. nsa says:
    @Ron Unz

    “….initiated the 6-day war with a sneak attack…..”
    The motivation for the attack on the Liberty and the coverup is rooted in events 10 years earlier……the French – Brit – Izzy attack through the Sinai to reclaim the Suez Canal which the Egyptians had recently nationalized. Eisenhower demanded the Brits, French, and especially the treacherous Izzies withdraw from the conquered Sinai with threats of sanctions and financial retribution…..humiliating all three perps. Now here is the sand in the vaseline jar. Senate Majority Leader, LBJew, actually supported the Izzies against his own President and tried to block any pressure on the pernicious Izzies to withdraw. Eisenhower took his case to the people in a speech and steamrolled LBJew and his tribal sponsors. Any wonder Amelikan jewies in general, and LBJew in particular, hated Eisenhower? Anyone surprised the arch traitor LBJew sided with his own tribe, the Izzie attackers of the Liberty, against the stupid chigger belt goyim who elected him to public office? The motivation for whitewashing the attack on the Liberty was just that simple.

  197. This is probably on the USS Liberty web site, but in case it isn’t here is the link to The Liberty Affair – “Pure Murder” on a “Great Day”

    https://geopolitiekincontext.wordpress.com/the-liberty-affair-pure-murder-on-a-great-day/

    The 1967 war was designed as a massive land-grab. The Zionists got a large part of what they were after, but missed out on the capture of Syria to add to Greater Israel. That failure is something they’ve been working to correct ever since.

  198. Ron Unz says:
    @Oscar Peterson

    Sorry, but I don’t accept that as a confirmation of any kind.

    I think I’m just going to give up on you, since you’re obviously some sort of troll or otherwise not arguing in good faith.

    According to Lt. Cmdr. Lewis, Admiral Geis said the planes sent to save the Liberty had been recalled by the direct orders of McNamara on a phone call, based upon the decision of LBJ. That’s in Bamford’s book.

    Communications operator Tony Hart in the Morocco relay station says he was listening in on the call from McNamara and quotes what McNamara said about LBJ’s views. That’s in the big Chicago Tribune article.

    It’s perfectly reasonable to argue that Hart’s McNamara quote wasn’t exact and maybe Lewis got a few things garbled from Geis.

    But we have two completely independent sources saying that McNamara personally ordered the planes recalled and did so based upon LBJ’s wishes. That’s about as solid as we’ll ever get regarding a top-secret phone call made 54 years ago.

    Moreover, Dean Rusk later said there’s no way McNamara would have made that decision without first checking with LBJ.

    By disputing all of this, you sound a lot like some of those pro-Israel shills still claiming that the Liberty wasn’t flying an American flag…

  199. The main lesson of the attack on the USS Liberty needs to be studied carefully by other states, as follows:

    If you, as a nation, find yourself in a hot war..

    and you are in the process of establishing an alliance with a global superpower (which quite recently spurned you — in this case, 1956)..

    and that superpower is now providing you with diplomatic cover,

    and that superpower is now supplying you with crucial armaments,

    then, in spite of the burdens of war (quite near to the homefront), this is what you should do:

    Identify a high-value mil-int asset of that superpower,

    and go bomb the living fuck out of it.

    And make sure you don’t just kill lowly servicemen. You also need to kill precious field intelligence personnel, and highly trained electronic surveillance and telecommunications professionals.

    But there’s more.

    You must be sure to not finish the job.

    You need to have maimed survivors: gravely injured servicemen, some of whom will become disabled for life.

    You also need to have uninjured survivors, to serve as reliable eyewitnesses of the many facets of the attack, its timelines and progression.

    So now you have a cohort of tough men — in this case, a good number who almost surely had experience in Korea and Indochina (not to mention more senior men who saw action in Europe or Japan as young men a few more years prior) — men now deeply embittered towards whoever was responsible for their great loss, their trauma, their humiliation.

    And you can surely rely on these survivors and their families and the families of those who died — which surely include some very smart, tough-minded folk with deep connections to elite military and intelligence circles — you can rely on them to shrug off a whitewash.

    If you pull this off, then you get a half-century (and counting) of diplomatic cover and seriously large amounts of military funding.

    It’s likely that we will see plans of similar deviousness and cunning carried out in future.

    • Replies: @04398436986
  200. eyegore says:

    Ironically, during the 1968 election, the Democrats claimed that Goldwater would lead the US into a nuclear war.

    My next door neighbor, same age then as I was, 17, had made his own election yard sign “Au + H2O = [image of mushroom cloud]”. He had a nerd side.

    My mother and I had gone north to our lake cabin for a week, and we didn’t know about the Seven Day War until on we were on our way home, listening to the car radio.

  201. raga10 says:
    @gregor

    “I don’t know… I still don’t see what Israelis stood to gain from this attack.”

    I can’t tell what you arguing. It feels like you are trying to defend the Israelis without making the case directly.

    I am literally not arguing anything; just sharing my doubts. Guilt of Israelis is not even debatable, since they admitted responsibility for the attack. But whether it was intentional or not, who ordered what and for what reason – well, many explanations don’t make sense to me. That’s all I’m saying.

  202. @Ron Unz

    I think I’m just going to give up on you, since you’re obviously some sort of troll or otherwise not arguing in good faith.

    I’m sorry to see you resorting to the meaningless “troll” ad hominem. And me as a “pro-Israel shill” is simply comical. I don’t like Israel or its relationship with the US, but facts are what they are. And in my view, more fully expressed in my extensive comment #126, the facts, as we know them, do not support the theory of a pre-planned Israeli attack on the Liberty.

    Let me be clear: I accept that the aircraft from the Saratoga were recalled at the direction of the national command authority–Johnson and MacNamara. And I accept that it was done to avoid a potential US-Israel air confrontation, a consideration which should have been subordinated to the priority of providing immediate protection to the Liberty.

    However, I don’t accept the validity of Tony Hart statement without something more than his say so. No Secretary of Defense is going to say to military leaders what Tony Hart attributes to McNamara: “Hey guys, Prez says he ain’t concerned about a few sailors and doesn’t want to embarrass Israel.” Sorry, but that’s not remotely plausible, and it detracts substantially from Hart’s credibility. Maybe Hart inferred that’s what Johnson was actually thinking, and it became in his mind what he thought he had heard.

    I also don’t see any convincing evidence from either Hart or Geiss or anyone else that Johnson knew in advance about an attack planned against the Liberty.

    But really, all this down-in-the-weeds stuff misses the larger point (which you addressed, but did not resolve, in your piece above): What was the motive for a pre-planned, extremely high-risk Israeli attack? And if it was pre-planned, why was it executed in a way that made it clear almost from the start that it was the Israelis who did it and that failed to achieve what would have been the key objective–sinking the Liberty quickly and without Israeli fingerprints?

    • Replies: @W
  203. turtle says:
    @anarchyst

    If I had my way, Israel would have been turned into a glass parking lot on 9 June 1967.

    I agree.

    An “ally” who attacks you chooses to be your enemy, whether they say they “intended” to or not. Either they did so deliberately, in which case they just switched sides, or else they seriously screwed up, in which they need to be taught that actions have consequences.

    And accepting monetary compensation in lieu of retaliation is despicable beyond belief. The honor of the U.S. armed forces should NOT be for sale. The phrase “thirty pieces of silver” comes to mind.

  204. Anonymous[141] • Disclaimer says:

    1. My father (surface navy, 44-68) always thought the attack was deliberate. (But just his impression, was not privy to information other than general rumors in the Navy.)

    1.5. I personally served 80s-00s in the attack sub force and staff commands. TS SCI, regular drill. Mostly PAC though. Never really heard anything about Liberty rumors. Wasn’t part of our world. People loved to speculate about the Scorpion, Thresher though.

    FWIW, Thresher likely had flooding after shipyard work, and then an inadequate EMBT blow, along with improper procedures for flooding. Both piping and procedures modified after. We know a significant amount about Thresher since it had just came out of the yards and had Gertrude conversations during the flooding.

    Scorpion was always more of a mystery (maybe a torpedo hot run or explosion inside the ship). And really that sort of thing could still occur. Since attack subs operate without outward transmission for months. The only major change made post Scorpion is that subs have to call in 24 hours prior to RTP so we don’t get the literal families on the pier incident like with Scorpion. But you really truly could still literally sink a day out on 70 day specop and nobody know about it until 68 days later.

    2. I haven’t seen a smoking gun on Liberty. All the blabla about tapes and stuff, but we don’t actually have the transcripts. I read the Liberty site extensively when Ennes was running it. Maybe the stuff is new to you. But it’s been out there for a long time.

    3. I’m wary of statements by very old men who’ve changed their story so late and don’t seem mentally able to have robust conversations. For example instead of giving new information or back and forth interviews, they’ve often just signed boilerplate statements by the Liberty survivors.

    4. The coordinated attack (torpedo boats along with aircraft) makes it seem more likely to have been deliberate. However, never underestimate the fog of war, friendly fire, and that the Israelis are not really a great military (easy to look good when fighting Arabs, per Moshe Dyan). Look at our own friendly fire incidents.

    Net/net: I still have an interest in this and hope something emerges that is dispositive. But just repeating the old claims of Ennes et al. doesn’t do it for me. Need something new to move my Bayesian prior.

    • Thanks: Wizard of Oz
    • Replies: @Bombercommand
  205. turtle says:
    @Patrick McNally

    In the 1964 election LBJ specifically blasted Goldwater

    For those too young to remember:

  206. Anonymous[124] • Disclaimer says:
    @CelestiaQuesta

    Some thoughts:

    Watching Covid hysteria bring out madness in normies, I understand better now why Good Germans “went along to get along.” Protesting just got citizens shunned, beaten, fired, rendered homeless, and/or sent to special political camps.

    [MORE]

    Odd, but perhaps not: the same tribe that condemns Adolf for being evil incarnate forbids the examination of its sacred “justifies all Israeli crimes” Holocaust. Do those who know the world is round jail speakers at Flat Earth conferences?

    Do Jews actually view goyim as subhumans to be used as slaves? It would seem so.

    Listening to Zionists push open borders, globalism, etc. makes one understand how Hitler came to hate them for their pilpul-twisting aversion to beauty, honor, comity, love, families, and truth.

    Zionists infiltrated Western education systems decades ago, sparing students reality. Today, college graduates are muddle-brained cows who follow anything their “leaders” say. They’ve never encountered limits, faced reality, or suffered consequences for their pie-in-the-sky “ponderings.”

    Jews kvetch about “never forgetting” while openly acting like modern Nazis to Palestinians.

    Why does a First World nation get ANY money from America, much less \$3.8B annually? Why is there no Irish Lobby demanding similar handouts?

    Why is Larry Fink and his tribal cronies allowed to run Black Rock…which owns much of the world?

    Israel demands that the USA give it money to protect it from the very enemies it endlessly creates.

    At what point does the Jewish State go the way of the Aryan State, USSR, and dodo bird?

  207. @Ron Unz

    McGonagle’s testimony is extremely doubtful on all sorts of matters, including that one, entirely conflicting with the recollection of almost every other surviving member of the crew.

    I’m starting to think this is a massive understatement. When I opened my Borne book for the first time in years, I was struck by two things. 1), The cheap glue binding is failing, and the book will fall apart soon. 2) McGonagle’s behavior after the attack was astonishing.

    Everybody agrees the man showed great bravery under fire. Page 72 of Borne says McGonagle had lost so much blood he couldn’t answer simple questions like “Who are you?”. Yet this Captain – after a short nap – got together with a Lt. Bennett and created an account of the attack which had only a casual relationship with reality. The attack was minimized in every way in that report.

    I think Lt. Bennett deserves a great deal more scrutiny in this, for a casual observer might deduce a groggy McGonagle was “coached” about the events which had just happened. That his account was drastically at odds with that of the rest of the crew tells me something very strange was going on. The “carrot” might have been a promise of that Medal Of Honor he got later. The “stick” might have been a promise to crucify McGonagle if he didn’t toe the line. In any event, the Captain stuck with the story, and it was incredibly useful in both the Coverup and to the Apartheid state.

    Yes, something really, really odd was going on. Now I’ve got to wonder what it was.

    BTW, it turns out somebody put a copy of Blood In The Water online. A check of Indiana libraries suggests it’s not a book which will easily be found in such institutions.

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiAnY3r29XzAhUYhHIEHfKyCpAQFnoECAYQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.worldtruth.online%2Fdocument%2Fdownload%2Fid_628%2F&usg=AOvVaw1157gpK82LVj0p0G6wyGbg

  208. @Triteleia Laxa

    Trite Laxative writes:

    … the idea that Israel attacked the best communication and surveillance asset which the US had, as a false flag, is absurd on the face of it.

    No Ms Laxative, what is absurd is that you bother to even make an appearance here, seeing as we all know you’re here as an apologist for Zio malfeasance.

    All the readers know you’ve been promoted in the hierarchy of the Axis of Disinformation in the wake of ThatWouldBeTrolling’s demotion (TWBT hasn’t been seen for a while in the major threads since he earned the displeasure of his Israel lobby controllers for his flimsy attempts at propagandising the UR readership).

    • Replies: @fnn
    , @Triteleia Laxa
  209. Anonymous[124] • Disclaimer says:
    @Yee

    If it was plotted by the US, then it’s unfair for Israel to take the blame.

    At the post-WWII Nuremberg Trials, Juden insisted/established that “just following orders” is no excuse.

    Plus if someone is killed during a bank robbery, the getaway driver is charge with murder, too. Equally.

    Enough with treating grasping, lying, jealous, never-satisfied, goyim-despising, murderous Zionazis like saints.

  210. @Quartermaster

    Admiral Morrison sent USN fighters to destroy the jooz attacking USS Liberty. NATO Supreme Commander ordered recall, Admiral Morrison refused. SecDef McNamara got on the horn and ordered recall, Admiral Morrison refused. Finally LBJ himself broke in and ordered the recall. Admiral Morrison was never promoted after that. Obviously Admiral Morrison knew that USS Liberty was operating, and where. Admiral Morrison was a great American and so was his genius son Jim, cut from the same sturdy American cloth. You have been caught lying before, Quarterbergmasterstein.

  211. turtle says:
    @Ron Unz

    If the [American public could be convinced the] Egyptians had treacherously attacked and massacred 300 American seamen in international waters, almost like another Pearl Harbor, a far stronger retaliatory strike [would have been mandatory, particularly since Nasser was perceived to be in bed with dem Russkies].

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aswan_Dam

    But nukes? I find that to be quite a stretch…but if eyewitness testimony can be authenticated, it would have to be accepted.

    Q1: Was the State of Israel known to U.S. Government to have nuclear weapons at that time? I do not remember. And if so, how might that knowledge influence U.S. Government actions in the region?

    Q2: Exactly what nuclear weapons were in service with U.S military at that time? Types? Yields? Expected uses? How dirty were they? Were “tactical” or “battlefield” nukes “a thing”? What specific models of warhead? What was official U.S. policy for use of such weapons?

    Some information may be found here:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B61_nuclear_bomb

    Q3: What conventional alternatives to nuclear weapons would have been considered effective? Incendiary attacks against Japanese cities were facilitated by the fact that large numbers of Japanese structures were wood. Middle Eastern construction techniques tend to use adobe and concrete masonry, which do not burn.

  212. @Oscar Peterson

    I may have missed something from Ron which should have moved me on but I’m inclined to think that the decision must have been Dayan’s to bring the US into the war though I now add what should have occurred to me to posit earlier, viz. that there was more than one factor/motive considered.

    Daysn could well have known about the alleged massacres of prisoners (though, come to think of it, have any Liberty survivors or others ever said Liberty picked up any relevant transmissions? Indeed why would Dayan expect there to have been signalling about it?) Then there was the Golan Heights operation to hide. Also, it has been suggested that the Soviet Union would pick up nearly all of what the Liberty was reporting, and, if so, the Egyptians could learn how weak the southern front would be when Syria was invaded. All in all, Dayan might have decided that Luberty was bad news and that there was a Gordian Knot to be dealt with.
    The markings of planes and torpedo boats would only be really telling if they were painted over that day. With the information UR threads have provided or led me to it seems possible there were Israeli planes without markings in advance of any need for deception or concealment on 8th June. In the case of the torpedo boats it seems unlikely that many, maybe any, Liberty crew members be able to say, confidently that they would have seen identifying details.

  213. @geokat62

    Fair enough, but I suspect that killing Americans, with maximal cruelty and savagery, was meant to send a message to the USA-we are your Bosses now. Get used to it. I imagine that every Israeli ‘Embassy’ in the West has a nuke in the basement, for last resort ‘Samson Option’ revenge. The same motivation was also behind 9/11.

  214. utu says:
    @Ron Unz

    Meanwhile, I absolutely, positively agree that (2) the nuclear claim is so astonishing and implausible that it seems impossible that it might have been true.

    Exactly my reaction, so understandably I am rather skeptical of claims by people who build the case for (2). But I agree that (2) can’t be completely dismissed however the fact that (2) diminishes Israel responsibility raises the probability that the narrative for (2) was constructed once Israel’s denials lost their persuasive power.

  215. @BorisMay

    Fair enough, Boris. Most people, when they say ‘democracy’ mean liberal capitalist oligarchy, with a farcical ‘democratic’ veneer. If you’d said ‘real democracy’ I would have understood.
    As for rule by the people, in my opinion it is impossible in a mass state. It just divides society into warring factions, and empowers the worst among us, the greedy, the ruthless, the manipulative etc. I prefer the Chinese system-one Party of power that any may join, acting in utilitarian ways to raise the standard of living and enjoyment of life of as many as possible. The proof of the pudding is in the eating-‘authoritarian’ China leading the world, its peoples’ live continually improving, or ‘democratic’ America, crumbling, unequal in every way to unprecedented degree and roaming the world looking for opportunities to destroy and slaughter.

    • Agree: Ann Nonny Mouse
  216. @Oscar Peterson

    Very poor quality pilpul, and stop insulting Oscar. The Zionazis HATE the goyim, full stop. Killing goyim in war (a constant state for 3500 years)is a mitzvah or good deed, according to the Talmudists. AND it tells the USA who is Boss.

    • Agree: fnn
  217. @raga10

    Rag-man10 writes:

    I don’t know… I still don’t see what Israelis stood to gain from this attack. I don’t find any of the suggestions I saw so far convincing. They took a huge risk, and for what? US was already on their side.

    So let’s see how it would’ve played out if the Israeli treachery had been successful.

    The USS Liberty goes to the bottom of the Mediterranean with no survivors.
    The Zio owned U.S media and Zio aligned White House and Congress claim the Egyptians did it and use that as a pretext for nuking Cairo*.

    (*Remember, there must ALWAYS be a pretext for committing any heinous act. Truman used the pretext of saving 500,000 G.I lives that an invasion of the Japanese mainland in 1945 would have entailed as an excuse for incinerating Japanese civilians in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
    Bush 43 used the 9/11 False Flag as an excuse to invade Afghanistan and Iraq).

    By having the pretext, this enables the POTUS to claim the moral high ground and say:

    ‘We had to get them Egyptians for treacherously killing our fine boys on the USS Liberty, on a day that ‘will live in infamy.’ (channelling FDR).

    All of the above would’ve MASSIVELY improved LBJ’s electoral prospects for the upcoming 1968 Presidential election.

    There is NO QUESTION about it, there are NO shades of grey here.
    What LBJ did was premeditated.

    Meanwhile, in relation to the immediate aftermath of nuking Cairo as retaliation for the alleged Egyptian sinking of the USS Liberty, using the leverage that another nuke may be heading the way of Egypt if they remain belligerent, a negotiated peace is arranged whereby Egypt is forced to disarm and in one fell swoop the most powerful of the Arab nations, and the chief entity standing in the way of Israeli hegemony in the region is now neutralised

    And yet somehow Rag-man10 can’t see ‘what the Israelis stood to gain from this attack’.

    You’re not very bright are you Rag-man ?

    As for the alleged ‘huge risk’ Rag-man claims the Israelis took, what are you talking about ?

    LBJ was the first Jewish POTUS and in addition the entire machinery of government and media in the U.S was Zionist owned/controlled.

    As it turned out, the attack of the Liberty didn’t go to plan and most of the crew survived to tell the tale.
    Yet STILL, to this day, the U.S government has not come clean and admitted it was a deliberate attack by the malevolent Zio back-stabbers, such is the complete control of all agencies of information dissemination that the Zio cabal possess.

    Bottom Line: There was NEVER any risk to the Israelis.

    They could have sunk the USS Liberty in Time Square in New York, witnessed by tens of thousands and the sponsors of those that perpetrated this crime (ie: the Zionist Usury Banking Cartel that controls the entirety of the western financial system and who the Israeli state are TOTALLY accountable and owe its existence to), STILL would’ve found a way to cover for the Israeli scum.

    • Agree: acementhead, fnn
    • Replies: @Patrick McNally
  218. @Quartermaster

    That could put everything on hold. It deserves to be elevated as evidence to top of the heap, if there is proof that the Israelis were told at a relevant time that there was no US ship where the USS Liberty actually was. Please don’t leave it there.

    • Replies: @Bombercommand
  219. @Ron Unz

    The American flag isn’t particularly important if you accept what Quartermaster has just proffered as true, namely that the 6th Fleet commend misinformed (relevant?) Israelis at a relevant time that there was no US ship where Linerty actually was. After all it would just make the Israelis specially angry if they thought it was an Egyptian (or Soviet) ship pretending to be an American ship. And it would allow no other inference than that it was engaging in hostile activity.

  220. @Dingo bay rum

    The Polish government became intransigent after Hitler had occupied Czechoslovakia because it was obvious that Hitler was not sincere about any commitments he made. This was true about Danzig as well as Hitler clearly stated in his memo of May 23, 1939:

    [MORE]

    “It is not Danzig that is at stake. For us it is a matter of expanding our living space to the east and making food supplies secure…”

    The Polish government would have seen how Hitler’s occupation of Czechoslovakia on March 15, 1939, proved that he could not be trusted to abide by any agreement which he made over Danzig and so they tightened up their hold over Danzig as soon as Czechoslovakia had been taken over. Nothing the British, French or USA could have done would have influenced the Poles to accept Hitler’s word in any agreement over Danzig after seeing the violation of the Munich Agreement. It was not Roosevelt who brought this about. It was Hitler himself who did it.

    • Agree: Wizard of Oz
    • Disagree: Dingo bay rum
    • Thanks: Gabe Ruth, Sarah
  221. @Oscar Peterson

    Mordechai Goldstein (who uses the handle Oscar Peterson to throw people off his Hasidic scent), writes:

    Don’t know why anyone would even entertain this notion [that LBJ wanted to nuke Egypt].

    Actually Mordechai, you do know why.

    But you’re following instructions from your handlers in Herzliya to peddle disinfo and cover for Zio malfeasance.

    The CUI BONO factor for Israeli in seeing Egypt nuked is overwhelming.

    Scroll up to my comment in response to ‘raga10’ and see the countless reasons why it would have been enormously beneficial for LBJ as well.

    • Agree: acementhead
  222. @Ron Unz

    Ron, you did mention in your article the U.S submarine that coincidentally* happened to witness the attack on the USS Liberty:

    Ennes’ book briefly mentioned that an American submarine had secretly joined the Liberty as it traveled to its destination, and had actually been present throughout the entire attack, with some of the sailors seeing its periscope.
    Although one of the crew had been privy to the classified details, he later refused to divulge them to Ennes when asked. According to some accounts, the sub had even used a periscope camera to take photographs of the attack

    … but you didn’t name the actual sub. (*BTW, it was NO coincidence that a U.S sub was stalking the Liberty on that fateful day. It’s role, assigned to it by LBJ, was to ensure the Liberty went to the ocean floor).

    The sub in question is the USS Amberjack (SS-522) and the following link may interest readers:

    http://www.renegadetribune.com/uss-liberty-survivor-says-us-submarine-filmed-israels-attack-torpedoed-ship/

    From the article above:

    [USS Liberty] survivor Richard Larry Weaver talks about his eye-witness experiences and some of the unmentioned aspects of the attack, including how the USS Amberjack (SS-522) filmed the attack and actually fired the torpedo that hit the Liberty.

    Also Ron, I recall you mentioning in your article that the attack on the Liberty was called off when a ‘foreign ship’ arrived on the scene but you never did elaborate further about the country of origin of said ship.

    This article titled ‘USS Liberty: Operation Cyanide: Russians to the rescue’ may enlighten the readers:

    https://sites.google.com/site/onedemocraticstatesite/archives/uss-liberty-operation-cyanide

    From the article:

    Few people in America or Russia are aware of the crucial and heroic role played by Destroyer 626/4 of the Soviet Navy during the Six-Day War in June, 1967.

    Destroyer 626/4 came to the aid of the Liberty in the aftermath of the attack and stuck by her until US forces were allowed to approach about seventeen hours later. It has been reported that the American submarine, USS Amberjack, was standing by to sink the Liberty and save the operation but the presence of 626/4 prevented this from happening.

    There it is readers for all to see.

    The much maligned Russkies, once again come the the rescue of the United States and the world (just as they did in the recent Syrian Civil war to actually annihilate ISIS) – whereas the U.S was funding/training/aiding and abetting ISIS from the get go.

  223. Avery says:
    @Ron Unz

    {By disputing all of this, you sound a lot like some of those pro-Israel shills still claiming that the Liberty wasn’t flying an American flag…}

    Pro-Israeli shills: nailed it Ron.
    Classic gaslighting: ‘youse guys didn’t see what you think you saw…this here is what you actually saw’.

  224. Anonymous[372] • Disclaimer says:

    Very interesting. I’ve followed the Liberty “Incident” for years and solving the motive puzzle was for me, like you, all that was really left.

    A sort of nuclear scale Operation Northwoods that almost went live. Maybe. But, well argued.

    Your introductory section summarizing the history of research and publication into the event is most excellent. One of the best summaries I have seen. For that, thank you.

    I’d read/heard about the return of nuclear armed planes before and never really thought, why would the fleet launch those? What was the target? Answering these questions may assist in understanding what was really going on.

    I am long past being shocked that the psychopaths in power would have any trouble sacrificing ships of people to achieve “higher goals”. Happens all the time. They’re called wars.

  225. Avery says:
    @Truth Vigilante

    {Few people in America or Russia are aware of the crucial and heroic role played by Destroyer 626/4 of the Soviet Navy during the Six-Day War in June, 1967.
    Destroyer 626/4 came to the aid of the Liberty in the aftermath of the attack and stuck by her until US …….}

    That is quite an amazing bit of detail: amazing, really.
    It is interesting as to why Soviets did it: after all, US was a rival/enemy of USSR at the time: why not let the attackers sink it? They had no obligation to get involved.

    Maybe the Soviets had sources in LBJ admin and knew that LBJ was planning something crazy after the Liberty was sunk and wanted to prevent an unpredictable (nuclear) escalation?

    • Agree: Alden
  226. Alden says:
    @Mevashir

    The Israelis didn’t pay any compensation to the Liberty survivors or the families of the men the Israelis slaughtered.

    The American government used the American taxpayers money to pay the compensation. The money was transferred from the American treasury to Israel and Israel used American taxpayers money to pay the compensation. After years of claiming Israel was justified in attacking the ship, burning American sailors to death with napalm and claiming it’s the God given right of Jews to kill Americans

    You’re sooo Jewish

    “No Jew in the history of the world has ever done anything wrong, illegal immoral or detrimental to the societies in which they live.” “ “We jews never intended to destroy every great city in America from New Orleans to Minneapolis, from NYC and Baltimore to Los Angeles and Seattle” “ We only fought for civil rights and justice for every poor pathetic black criminal forced into criminality by the supremely evil White American goyim”

    “ We only wanted sweet little miss Brown to attend the Topeka Kansas White school 3 blocks away instead of enduring the horrors and injustice of walking 8 blocks to the segregated black school “ We supremely virtuous jews had absolutely no intention of destroying the American public school system” “ We only wanted to raise black IQ from average 85 40 percent under 80 or retarded by aiding and abetting black thugs to bully rob beat abuse and sexually assault White children”

    “ We supremely virtuous jews had no idea that sending our taxpayer funded Jewish legal foundations to end every vestige of discipline and civilized behavior in public schools would destroy them”

    From Adam Kaminsky aka Jack the Ripper to Mike Millkin , Bernie Madoff , Chesa Boudin and his fellow pro criminal district attorneys put in office by Jew Soros using the billions stolen during his long career as a super thief in global financial markets. Jews gotta Jew. Destroy every country they live in and then whine when it’s noticed.

    The damage to the world jews did in the 20th century. Founding and financing NACCP 1910, Russian and Chinese communist revolutions, founding and funding CPUSA 1918 a Yiddish speaking Jewish immigrant organization, ACLU a Jewish Legal Foundation created to destroy America, the Jew Johnson’s administration, affirmative action, endless spewing of genocidal hatred of Whites by the Jewish media extorting the entire GNP of Israel from the American taxpayer through the Jewish owned presidents senate and congress critters

    “ But jews have never done anything harmful to anyone, anywhere since insane Abraham pimped out his wife and sister Sarah to a neighboring sheik, threw his raped slave Hagar and his child by her Ishmael out in the desert to die and then heard voices in his head ordering him to kill his son Issac by his wife and sister Sarah. Then the voice from the sky ordered him to spare Issac.

    Jews, a race of genocidal bandits and nomadic raiders who destroyed America in 90 years, 1880 when the Russian revolutionary Jews swarmed into Ellis island to 1971 when their work of destruction was complete.

    • Thanks: W
    • Replies: @Alden
    , @Mevashir
  227. @Truth Vigilante

    I have a very large and valuable antique bridge to sell you.

    • Replies: @Biff
    , @Truth Vigilante
  228. Mevashir says:
    @Truth Vigilante

    Fantastic information. Thank you. Dave Gahary was a US submarine officer who has written about the Liberty. I shall forward to him your comment. See this link: https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-remembering-the-liberty/#comment-4960522

    • Replies: @Truth Vigilante
  229. Alden says:
    @beavertales

    Friends of the IDF is an organization of American jews that pays for food housing clothing furniture equipment non weapon machinery jeeps trucks other transport medical care any and all military buildings and supplies but actual weapons for the Israeli military.

    Friends of the IDF housing and supplies means Israeli can spend more of the military budget for weapons and combat against civilian Palestinians.

    Friends of IDF is of course a charitable foundation to which all donations are tax deductible. We all know how that works. Donate 50K to bogus charity foundations and save 150K in taxes net profit 100 K.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  230. Biff says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    I have a very large and valuable antique bridge to sell you.

    What are you asking?

    • LOL: Arthur MacBride
  231. Mevashir says:
    @Mevashir


    This clip shows President Putin in an international press conference moderated by Megyn Kelly. She asks him at one point about the Democrats’ claim that Russia interfered to help Trump win the 2016 election. Putin replies that he himself was surprised that Trump won, but he concluded that Trump ran a better campaign and the Democrats were simply incompetent.

    At 4:50 into the clip he compares this to anti-Semitism where he says about Jew-haters:

    “You blame the Jews for everything. You’re stupid and you can’t do anything, but the Jews are to blame!”

    Priceless beautiful quote!

    A confident successful and intelligent man can be magnanimous to others, while a grievance-filled loser is just the opposite.

  232. Alden says:
    @Montefrío

    A Catholic missal is the book used for the catholic mass or daily services in Catholic Churches. They are Catholic missals because they were written by catholic clergy sometimes printed in catholic monastery print shops and shipped to Catholic Churches. Where they are kept and distributed to the Catholics who attend the daily services termed the daily mass.

    That’s what makes those missal books Catholic.

    Presidents are not sworn in with catholic missals. They are sworn in with bibles. An entirely different book. Somehow I doubt there was a missal on the president’s plane Unless Kennedy brought a priest along to say daily mass on Air Force One.

  233. W says:
    @Oscar Peterson

    You like questions, so do I, and I have one for you:

    Why were the jets unmarked? You didn’t answer that question.

    And if it was pre-planned, why was it executed in a way that made it clear almost from the start that it was the Israelis who did it and that failed to achieve what would have been the key objective–sinking the Liberty quickly and without Israeli fingerprints?

  234. Mevashir says:
    @Lysias

    Long ago I attended a church that in their Sunday night meetings would broadcast one of Hagee’s services. Sermons often spoke about New Testament topics. Once he spoke about his own personal life story. He said he was going off the track as a young man and was driving home one day and fell asleep at the wheel as he went over a railroad track that was on a slight incline and he said the car went airborne and he saw a vision of his mother praying for his survival. Hagee’s mother was a very devout Baptist Christian and he gives her a lot of credit for the fact that he became a minister and turned his life around. These were things I saw about him more than 15 years ago and I have not watched him since. But he was a very fine orator and gives very thoughtful sermons. On the topic of Israel ​he is intransigent however

    • Replies: @geokat62
  235. geokat62 says:

    Well, what do you know?

    It turns out the Talmudic Tom, Colin Powell, was a real life Shabbos Goy!

    Powell spent a lot of time at the home of Melvin Klein (who was one of the first in the area to have a television) and at the Orthodox synagogue, where his duties as Shabbos Goy included shutting off the lights. “Men ken redn yidish,” Powell told an astounded Yitzhak Shamir, then Israeli prime minister, ahead of the first Gulf War in 1991. “We can speak Yiddish.”

    https://links.forwardcdn.com/e/evib?_t=4616583590614aeb8da9a4f87d20e5fd&_m=a24162bdc0264c1b867541caeee596d0&_e=6qY2e6qC-IXNLuOwI_kfJD6rJvBAF1jEQ3Fd5HQUAJnhLsoM8qaA--5t2xIURUbSu6RQFZ9TB9-NB5-wX9jM5B46OXllMe7FVmh7XKalYeG2dkaAMfnR-i6UVmmA0kYc

    • Replies: @Alden
    , @nsa
  236. Alden says:
    @Alden

    Aaron Kamensky not Adam. Contrast the 19 th treatment of mentally ill killer Kamensky with the treatment of mentally ill killers in progressive America.

    Kamensky attacked several women in daylight. Passersby intervened. Kamensky was arrested, diagnosed insane and sent to a locked mental hospital . When he was deemed safe to be released he was released. He went back to work. Then 5 women were killed at night. Kamensky was a major suspect. His relatives put him back in the mental hospital. No more women killed. Kamensky where he belonged.

    Contrast that with what the American unelected life long tenured American Supreme Court did in 1975. O’Connor vs Donaldson. Closed down the mental hospitals put the patients on a Greyhound bus to the nearest city.

    • Replies: @Mevashir
  237. utu says:

    The stories about the submarine USS Amberjack and its role (according to some it even fired a torpedo against USS LIberty) and the Soviet destroyer and its role as the providential savior are fakes. They must have been planted and injected into the narrative to sow confusion and diversion from the role of Israel once the cover up was no longer possible and the “Remember Liberty” movement was getting traction. The same goes for the nuclear weapon aspect which was the counterpropaganda ‘nuclear option’ to blanket everything what Israel did with the evilness of America. It was all made up by the ‘friends’ of America in Tel Aviv and Moscow on behalf of American nincompoops who will eat up anything as long as it has anti-authoritarian and anti-government angle. The experts in Lubyanka and Tel Aviv know very well what kind of dish to cook for Americans.

    In 1967 the US and its Deep Sate were still a very reluctant ally of Israel. The belief in evenhandedness in the Israel-Arab conflict was still strongly believed by many in the State Dept and in LBJ administration. Nobody in the US wanted to escalate the local conflict in which the US was not participating to the point of war with the USSR. The recall of planes by McNamara happened when it was still believed that the attack was being perpetrated by Egyptians. The motive was not to embarrass Israel but to avoid escalation with Egypt that could get out of hand while the war was winding down and both Jordan and Egypt already on June 8 agreed to the ceasefire,

  238. Alden says:
    @geokat62

    Powell worked in a Jewish owned store as a teen and college student. He enjoyed the work and appreciated the money. Said he learned a lot about sales , pricing getting along and doing well in the workplace from the store owner. Very excellent that a black army officer could shock the Israelis by speaking Yiddish. In a novel or movie the American officer could listen to the Israelis plotting and scheming in Yiddish.

  239. Alden says:
    @utu

    Thanks. Very interesting comment. So many lies by our government about everything. One reasons Jew Lyndon Johnson imposed affirmative action was to clear the goyim out of the State Department and replace even handed about the Middle East goyim Foreign Service Officers with Israeli agent American jews.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  240. Mevashir says:
    @geokat62

    Thanks for this. I knew Hagee was very wealthy but not this wealthy! He had a West Bank settler yeshiva named after him a few years ago. It’s also claimed his wife is a Sefardic.

    I was in Israel when Jerry Falwell stated that anti-Christ would be an apostate Jew from the tribe of Dan. When the storm erupted he flew to Israel to apologize and returned home with a private corporate jet:

    [MORE]

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1999/01/23/jews-angry-over-remark-by-falwell/2245427f-c32b-444b-ad2d-5f12d2d6f273/
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1981/09/12/jerry-falwell-vows-amity-with-israel/282947d1-47ff-4851-8884-495506fe1773/
    https://origins.osu.edu/history-news/myth-jewish-antichrist-falwell-stumbles-badly
    https://www.nytimes.com/1999/01/16/us/antichrist-is-alive-and-a-male-jew-falwell-contends.html
    https://baylor-ir.tdl.org/bitstream/handle/2104/8100/Robert_Smith1_phd.pdf

    http://www.comeandsee.com/view.php?sid=504 [article by Palestinian Evangelical Christian]
    In 1979, Israel gave Falwell a Lear Jet (a private airplane) and in 1981 he received the Jabotinsky Award in New York . This award is named after Vladimir Jabotinsky (1880-1940), a Jewish militant Zionist from Russia, the founder of so-called Revisionist Zionism, who advocated a Jewish state on both sides of the Jordan River. In 1981, Menachem Begin Prime Minister of Israel called Falwell asking for his support after the Israeli bombing of an Iraqi nuclear facility. These few incidents reveal how the state of Israel appreciated the support of Jerry Falwell and it uncovers his importance in their eyes. Indeed Falwell is a significant Fundamentalist who supports Israel. But why does he support the state of Israel? Falwell answers this question by stating three main reasons: humanitarian, political, and theological.

    When I was in yeshiva, I frequently read biographies of great rabbis that lauded their ability to bribe European officials to do their will. The books never stated where their funds came from, but undoubtedly from Rothschild type Jewish businessmen.

  241. Mevashir says:
    @utu

    In 1967 the US and its Deep Sate were still a very reluctant ally of Israel. The belief in evenhandedness in the Israel-Arab conflict was still strongly believed by many in the State Dept and in LBJ administration. Nobody in the US wanted to escalate the local conflict in which the US was not participating to the point of war with the USSR. The recall of planes by McNamara happened when it was still believed that the attack was being perpetrated by Egyptians. The motive was not to embarrass Israel but to avoid escalation with Egypt that could get out of hand while the war was winding down and both Jordan and Egypt already on June 8 agreed to the ceasefire

    Maybe the State Department was evenhanded, but wasn’t LBJ totally sold out to the Israeli agenda, especially after they killed JFK? It’s claimed that Ladybird was a Sefardic as well.

  242. Mevashir says:
    @Alden

    Contrast that with what the American unelected life long tenured American Supreme Court did in 1975. O’Connor vs Donaldson. Closed down the mental hospitals put the patients on a Greyhound bus to the nearest city.

    I’ve read that the scourge of homelessness that has engulfed America originated when Ronnie Raygun defunded mental hospitals and threw their patients onto the streets. All in the name of “small government” and forcing localities to deal with the problem. Now Ronnie’s home-state is overwhelmed by the plague of public health menacing homeless indigents destroying cities in Los Angeles and San Francisco counties.

    Maybe the problem is not big government but small minded politicians?!

    • Replies: @Alden
  243. fnn says:
    @Truth Vigilante

    I see Art Deco had the decency to refrain from showing up.

  244. Mevashir says:
    @Alden

    You’re sooo Jewish. “No Jew in the history of the world has ever done anything wrong, illegal immoral or detrimental to the societies in which they live.”

    You’re totally wrong about me friend. I’ve frequently denounced Jewish criminal behavior, which is why I am branded a self-hating Jew and loathed by the Jewish and Zionist communities. I’ve written that the Torah is a book of laws to regulate and control Jewish criminals.

    I never said Israel shouldn’t compensate the Liberty survivors. I merely asked if they had not already done so. I agree it was forced and reluctant and the coverup is sordid. However this commenter claims that US officials left the Liberty unprotected because initially they thought the ship was under Egyptian attack and they didn’t want to escalate an incident with a Soviet ally:

    [MORE]

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-remembering-the-liberty/#comment-4962134 Nobody in the US wanted to escalate the local conflict in which the US was not participating to the point of war with the USSR. The recall of planes by McNamara happened when it was still believed that the attack was being perpetrated by Egyptians. The motive was not to embarrass Israel but to avoid escalation with Egypt that could get out of hand while the war was winding down and both Jordan and Egypt already on June 8 agreed to the ceasefire.

    You write:

    The American government used the American taxpayers money to pay the compensation. The money was transferred from the American treasury to Israel and Israel used American taxpayers money to pay the compensation. After years of claiming Israel was justified in attacking the ship, burning American sailors to death with napalm and claiming it’s the God given right of Jews to kill Americans.

    In war everyone claims the God-given right to kill others. How many Vietnamese peasants were napalmed by the US air force, killers in comfort flying in air conditioned cockpits 10ooo feet high?

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-remembering-the-liberty/#comment-4962049 Friends of the IDF is an organization of American jews that pays for food housing clothing furniture equipment non weapon machinery jeeps trucks other transport medical care any and all military buildings and supplies but actual weapons for the Israeli military.

    Concerning your comment here, the following is a true story that illustrates how wrong you are about me. About ten years ago I visited a Maronite Catholic community in Virginia. I stayed overnight with a family and planned to speak to their priest the next day. They allowed me to use their laptop to check my emails before going to bed. About an hour later there was furious pounding on the guest room door and they demanded to speak with me. They accused me of using the laptop to hack into their bank account and to make a \$1000 donation to Friends of IDF! I had never even heard of this organization and I had zero hacking abilities. I was shocked and disoriented and didn’t know what to do. Eventually they sent me by cab to a motel and told me their attorney would be contacting me.

    A month later I was informed by another person in that community that it all was a huge mistake and that the wife of the family that was hosting me had made a secret donation to the IDF and her husband discovered it the very night I was staying at their home. These people were Eastern Catholics, who followed Orthodox Christian rituals but were under Vatican authority. They had simple hard lives, large families, and apparently were ardent Zionists to boot.

    After the investigation was completed, they apologized for falsely accusing me but told me that I would not be acceptable to their community because I was Zionist enough for them!

    • Thanks: Ann Nonny Mouse
  245. Anonymous[295] • Disclaimer says:

    Horseshit. It’s very simple…..The Liberty was surveilling/spying in a war zone and relaying Israeli military movements to Saudi Arabia. Israel was in a war for survival and warned all ships in the area to leave the zone. I wonder how an Israeli spy ship would have been received in 1991 by the US in the Persian Gulf, after ignoring demands to leave? It would be on the sea bottom, and rightfully so. The blame for the tragic death of US sailors lies directly on the shoulders of America’s political and military leadership of the time, period, end of story.

  246. Alden says:
    @Mevashir

    It wasn’t Ronald Reagan who closed the state hospitals. It occurred in 1975 when the federal Supreme Court satanist ordered the mental hospitals closed down via their ruling in O’Connor vs Donaldson 1975 when Reagan was not a public official of any kind but a private citizen.

    The liberals and communists praised O’Connor ruling. How wonderful instead of living in a hospital where they were fed clothed sheltered cleaned medicated and protected from each other the patients would have community care .

    Within a year it became obvious the mental patients were living on the streets unable to find their way to the welfare office to at least get food stamps.

    Reagan became President January 1981 and the entire lying media blamed the debacle on Reagan. And has ever since.

    Whenever some brainwashed idiot blames the homeless problem on Reagan tell them about O,Connor vs Donaldson. That’s English Common Law. Laws aren’t made by legislators after research and discussion. Laws are made by judges. 175 BC by the biggest baddest bully in the tribe. 1975 AD by big bad bullies with JD degrees and black robes instead of long leather shirts made from deerskin they shot and skinned themselves.

    • Thanks: Mevashir
  247. ld says:

    Our Leaders pledged allegiance
    to the land across the sea
    making sure that they have healthcare
    all thanks to you and me
    they don’t have to pay for
    University is free
    The gifts keep going on.

    [MORE]

    Glory glory halejuha
    glory glory halejuha
    glory glory halejuha
    the shit keeps going on

    They own our politicians,
    banks and media too
    There is nothing we say
    or Hasbara’s on you
    You cannot run for office
    lest you represent the Jews
    this shit keeps going on

    They can sink our ships
    and shoot our sailors as they swim
    we pretend it didn’t happen
    cuz we know that it was them
    but there’s nothing we can do
    bcuz they own us through and through
    this shit keeps going on

    They danced upon their van
    when the buildings were destroyed
    they just happened to be filming
    when the dirty bombs deployed
    its plane to see that we are owned
    by psyco-paranoids
    the shit keeps rolling down

    Now they kill their neighbours
    and lock them up inside
    of an open-air gulag
    committing genocide
    Anyone who mentions it…
    professional suicide
    and the whole world looks away

    They can murder babies
    they’ve a right to self-defense
    one just threw a stone
    better reenforce the fence
    you can bet your ass
    it’s time to mow the grass
    when they need uncle Schmuel

    We must fight their battles
    until the end of time
    killing who they say
    inventing silly crimes
    even though Americans
    stand in a bread line
    we must defend the Jews.

    gory gory halejuha
    gory gory halejuha
    gory gory halejuha
    this shit keeps going on

    • Thanks: Mevashir
    • Replies: @Mevashir
  248. nsa says:
    @geokat62

    Talmudic Tom, Colin Powell……..
    Uncle Colin had a long history as loyal house nigger serving his massa before he waved around those viles of pixie dust anthrax to justify the slaughter of the cock cutter cult’s enemies. Uncle Colin, being high yeller, was immune to criticism so his massa placed him in charge of the My Lai massacre whitewash. Instead of being celebrated by the JudenPresse, Uncle Colin should have been last seen in a war crime docket and shortly thereafter at his public hanging.

    • Agree: acementhead
  249. Oy vey antisemitic history! (Our) (Greatest) (Ally) would never do such a thing!

  250. @Avery

    You wrote:

    It is interesting as to why Soviets did it: after all, US was a rival/enemy of USSR at the time: why not let the attackers sink it? They had no obligation to get involved.

    Actually, the Soviets have EVERY reason in the world to get involved.

    Now, I’m only speculating here but my guess is that it was no coincidence the Soviet ship just happened to be in the area.

    The Soviets may have picked up the mayday signals from the USS Liberty and thus ordered their nearest warship to race in its direction.
    They would have deduced immediately that it was a False Flag attack by Israeli forces and worked out that this was going to be used as a pretext for a U.S strike on their ally Egypt.

    So, it’s one thing for Israel to attack Egypt and the other Arab nations, but if the U.S were to get involved, the Russians may have been compelled to enter the fray and launch a retaliatory strike against Israel – with the potential that this could escalate into a nuclear exchange.

    So, it was in their interest that the Soviets saw to it that the USS Liberty stayed afloat.
    Failing that, to at least rescue all survivors who had a tale to tell that would, at the very least, strain the U.S/Israeli alliance.

    OR, in a best case scenario, it would turn American public opinion against the treacherous Zionists if the facts became public.

    • Thanks: Avery
  251. @Wizard of Oz

    Dunce of Oz writes:

    I have a very large and valuable antique bridge to sell you.

    There are quite a few knowledgeable Aussies contributing to UR but you most certainly are not one of them.

    You’ve embarrassed yourself on countless occasions in other threads and now you continue where you left off.

    Now be a good boy, get in line for your next experimental mRNA booster jab (you’re ninth to date), and let the Antibody Dependent Enhancement amplify the neurological damage it’s already done to you.

    • LOL: Mevashir
  252. @Mevashir

    Thanks for your kind words.

    I had a brief email exchange with Dave Gahary quite a few years ago. He’s a good man.

  253. Mevashir says:
    @Anonymous

    This probably is an accurate representation of the Israeli narrative.

    I wonder how an Israeli spy ship would have been received in 1991 by the US in the Persian Gulf, after ignoring demands to leave? It would be on the sea bottom

    Wrong my friend. The Israeli forces are completely embedded with US forces. Apparently Sheeny-butt and MoeSad torturers trained the US waterboarders at Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib. You’ve got it backwards my friend. Israel calls the shots and gets what it wants every time! Just like with the assassination of Suleimani.

  254. Mevashir says:
    @ld

    Most of the socialist freebies in the Israeli economy are long gone. Housing prices exploded and doubled in the last couple of years. Many Israelis can no longer afford housing and are living in trailers and RVs. Israel increasingly resembles an elitist Boca Raton on the Mediterranean for Rich Jews to live play and be buried in.

    • Replies: @Caruthers
  255. Mevashir says:
    @Anonymous

    I wonder how an Israeli spy ship would have been received in 1991 by the US in the Persian Gulf, after ignoring demands to leave? It would be on the sea bottom, and rightfully so.

    Nice rhetoric but completely fraudulent claim. Look how Israeli spy Jonathan Pollard was treated with kid gloves and eventually deported to Israel where he boasted of his espionage and encouraged American Jews to follow in his filthy footsteps. With total impunity!

    I was in Israel in 1991 during the first Gulf war. There were a few scud missiles shot towards Jerusalem and a lot more towards Tel Aviv and Haifa. A friend of mine had his building destroyed in Tel Aviv. Word was that the Israelis were about to scramble their Air Force and send them against Iraq when the Americans begged them not to intervene. They didn’t order them but begged them and paid them a tremendous amount of money to keep out of the fight.

    For the next many years following GWI there were enormous Public works and road construction projects all over Israel that Israeli friends told me were financed by the American payoff to keep the Israelis out of the war.

    So the point is the US doesn’t order Israel to do anything. The US bows and scrapes and eventually pays through the nose to meet the bribery and blackmail demands of the Zionists.

  256. @utu

    ‘utu’, founding member of the Axis of Disinformation writes:

    In 1967 the US and its Deep State were still a very reluctant ally of Israel.

    Of course, even Blind Freddie knows that what some refer to as the ‘Deep State’ is in fact the Zionist Usury Banking Cartel (aka the Zio cabal) – an entity that controls the entirety of the western financial system and owns every western politician of note.

    Yes, the Rothschild family dynasty is its most high profile member but the cabal consists of numerous old and new money Jewish dynastic families as well.

    The state of Israel is a Zio cabal construct and this cabal funded every penny that went into the building of its parliament (the Knesset).

    To say that the Deep State (ie: the Zio cabal) was a reluctant ally of the Apartheid Israeli State, is asinine to the extreme.

    Israel is a subsidiary of the Deep State/Zio cabal – it is the cabal’s first born child.

  257. Canute says:

    After Israel was able to turn loose their Mossad operatives at Langley and “encourage” LBJ to set in motion the Coup removing JFK from office, Israel knew damned well that they could do anything to the US, with impunity. LBJ was owned by Israel and he knew it, which is why he personally intervened to stop any response to the Liberty attack. It was at this time AIPAC was created and quickly secured legal approval to purchase members of Congress. We are now a vassal state – have been for several decades.

    • Agree: acementhead
    • Replies: @Zoom-copter2221
  258. @Truth Vigilante

    I don’t see anything in my comment that could be considered an apology for Israel. I just pointed out that a ship which is especially good at communicating and surveilling, therefore identifying what is attacking them and letting everyone else know, is the least likely target for a “false flag.” Literally anything else would be better.

    Since it seems likely that Israel attacked the ship on purpose, it makes much more sense that there was something the Israelis specifically suspected the ship of doing that caused them to attack, so they could have no other target. I have no idea what that would be, but the suggestions at the beginning of the article seem just about plausible. When you have a big war compressed into just six days, I imagine everyone is a bit more stressed and prone to major misjudgements than normal.

    If the Israelis were really into “false flags” then they probably would have done one in the last 60 years which would have allowed them to clear the West Bank and fully secure their borders. They would then no longer have major security worries nor significant international pressure against them. It would give them everything they want and would be much less risky than all the ones which internet freaks like you project onto them.

  259. Zumbuddi says:
    @RobinG

    “Wow! Geo, you are a font.”

    Georgian.

    Between 11 and 15 points.

    Trending since about 2018 with many variations, but with roots in 11th century church as well as secular usage.

  260. christoso says:

    Here is a revealing passage from Lea Rabin’s biography about her life with Yitzhak Rabin, the chief of staff for the IDF during the six day war. This is from page 116 of her book “Our Life, His Legacy”:

    Just as we walked in the door of our home, I picked up the phone to hear shocking news: John F. Kennedy was dead. To have just returned from the United States and for Yitzhak to have been in Dallas just hours before — albeit as mere coincidence; Fort Bliss was a stop on his military briefing tour— was disorienting. Yitzhak was about to become chief of staff and had just completed an intensive study of state-of-the-art defense and security practices from the most powerful nation in the world and suddenly we learned that country’s chief-executive was slain by a lone-gunman…….

    Could Yitzhak Rabin have met with or communicated privately with LBJ in Dallas just prior to JFK’s assassination? Could they and others have secretly planned the six day war and the USS Liberty incident? What about the assassination itself? Could this have been the real purpose of his visit? Was there a quid pro quo? It is probably a relief to all involved that Rabin is gone.
    The six day war in 1967 and the consequent acquisition of territory could never have happened under a JFK presidency, let alone the USS Liberty attack. JFK knew that the West Bank was essential to his vision of a two state solution to the Palestinian conflict. Both Israel and the Johnson administration feared Nasser’s allegiance with Russia and would have been eager to put Egypt under US control. Sinking the USS Liberty, and blaming it on Egypt would have provided the perfect excuse to attack and neutralize the country.

    • Agree: Truth Vigilante
  261. What surprised me was when they recently released the audio tapes of the attack and those speaking were clearly not Egyptian and they were clearly not recorded discussing murdering sailors already in the water etc by the Liberty crew but by others. Who recorded this and who authorised the release of those recordings and why? As was said in the film Gladiator ….

    Juba – You have a great name. He must kill your name before he kills you.

  262. @Lysias

    Hagee is hopelessly lost in the Old Testament, wandering around in it, cobbling verses together to sell his brand of religion.

  263. @Truth Vigilante

    As mentioned already, it’s more likely that nuking Cairo would have destroyed LBJ’s electoral support once and for all. The main plank of his 1964 campaign against Goldwater was to charge that Goldwater was inviting nuclear war. Whatever you may think a small minority of elitist Jews may have wanted, there’s no way on earth that the vast majority of people who voted for LBJ in 1964 would have voted for him again after nuking Cairo.

    • Replies: @Truth Vigilante
  264. Polymath says:

    Has anyone informed Robert Caro?

  265. @Avery

    They had no obligation to get involved.

    Maybe the Russkies were looking out for possible debris of intelligence value that drifted out of the torpedo hole?

    Remember, even though the US and USSR were rivals in the Cold War, the USA looked for Russkie airmen that crashed after buzzing a US aircraft carrier.

    • Agree: Avery
  266. beau says:

    anybody informed in the least will HATE lyndon baines johnson (small letters intended and deserved), be glad he is dead and hope for eternal punishment for that texas trash.

    • Replies: @Alden
  267. E_Perez says:

    For a fence sitter from an (almost) neutral country, it is always funny to see how the ‘gringos’ – arrogant and overbearing with residents of their ‘backyard’ – get humiliated by their masters and led by their nose ring.

    No wonder that, after the Liberty, their overlords got away with even bolder attacks such as 9/11.

  268. @JWalters

    Don’t forget the James Forrestal assassination and, quite possibly, the T.E. Lawrence assassination. The latter is discussed in the second edition of The Assassination of James Forrestal.

    • Agree: Alden
    • Replies: @Mark Hunter
  269. @Canute

    Johnson also had a Mossad jewess as a mistress at the time of the USS liberty.

  270. Jaybo says:

    The only part you left out was the USN was transmitting data to the Egyptians against their “allies” the Israelis. They were told to stop broadcasting and refused. And unlike the USA who has lost all wars for 50 plus years. Israel can’t lose.

    But I know telling any of you nazi pos is useless.

    • Replies: @Zoom-copter2221
  271. Ron Unz says:
    @Old Timer

    This article lengthy and supposedly in depth never mentioned the film by Trunews made recently and accesible at trunews.com that had first hand accounts from the survivors themselves. The film documents with 4hrs of film the Liberty attack from the survivors real life accounts themselves..
    Go to http://www.sacrificingliberty.com to watch online, buy the cd’s etc.

    I just finished watching the full four hours, and thanks again to you and other commenters who brought it to my attention. Absolutely outstanding, great content and very high production values. Much, much better and more comprehensive than I had ever expected. Not only was it very well done, but it also seemed extremely faithful to the underlying material.

    The last hour-plus segment focuses primarily upon the Hounam Hypothesis, including portions from a lengthy interview with the author as well as Phillip Nelson, and provides a great summary of all the crucial information and the overall analysis.

    I’d give the highest possible recommendation to the work, and strongly encourage others to watch it:

    http://www.sacrificingliberty.com

  272. Ron Unz says:
    @utu

    The stories about the submarine USS Amberjack and its role (according to some it even fired a torpedo against USS LIberty) and the Soviet destroyer and its role as the providential savior are fakes. They must have been planted and injected into the narrative to sow confusion and diversion from the role of Israel once the cover up was no longer possible and the “Remember Liberty” movement was getting traction. The same goes for the nuclear weapon aspect…

    Some of what you say is probably correct, but other elements are mistaken.

    There was certainly a sub involved with the Liberty, maybe the Amberjack or maybe one of a couple of others. There are claims floating around regarding the role of the sub and also the alleged involvement of a Soviet ship, but most of that seems like speculation or wild exaggeration, and quite possibly the disinfo you suggest.

    However, none of that relates to the eye-witness testimony regarding an American attack against against Egypt, which seems absolutely rock-solid. And there are also many who state unequivocally that the attack was going to be nuclear. I just watched the four hours of the Sacrificing Liberty documentary, and suggest you do the same, since the fourth hour includes several individuals providing their on-camera accounts of the alleged planned nuclear strike, and you can assess for yourself whether or not they seem credible. You should also watch the 2003 BBC documentary available on Youtube for the same reason.

    Having now seen this on-camera testimony, I’m somewhat more persuaded of the reality nuclear attack claims.

    • Thanks: utu, One-off
  273. Ron Unz says:
    @Ron Unz

    I think there were numerous statements by Liberty survivors that they had absolutely no idea the attackers were Israeli during that entire period, which strongly indicates that the MTBs weren’t marked with flags.

    Actually, I was mistaken with regard to the torpedo boats, which apparently did have Israeli flags.

    I just finished watching the absolutely outstanding Sacrificing Liberty documentary series, and although I’d already been familiar with 95% of the information presented, one of the Liberty survivors specifically mentioned that the MTBs had Israeli flags, which I hadn’t remembered being mentioned in any of the books.

    Probably most of the sailors were too preoccupied with staying alive to notice those flags, which is why I’d gotten the wrong impression.

    • Replies: @Mevashir
  274. @Jaybo

    You lie. The ship was there out of fear the Jews would seize the Golan heights, which would start a war with Syria and potentially Russia.
    And since it’s our money, weapons, and diplomacy. The Jews are using, how can you even begin to…I guess this is what the Jews call “chutzpah.” Parasite complains as it sucks your blood.

  275. Ruckus says:
    @vox4non

    Old men write words, with the bones of bad commas as dice.

  276. Mevashir says:
    @Ron Unz

    I just finished watching the absolutely outstanding Sacrificing Liberty documentary series, and although I’d already been familiar with 95% of the information presented, one of the Liberty survivors specifically mentioned that the MTBs had Israeli flags, which I hadn’t remembered being mentioned in any of the books. Probably most of the sailors were too preoccupied with staying alive to notice those flags, which is why I’d gotten the wrong impression.

    So they stayed alive and felt shame about the coverup while you got a 95% on the test.

  277. Suede says:
    @Ron Unz

    A simple answer to the issue of the armed nukes could be that LBJ needed to prepair the US strategic bombers in case that the Soviet Union reacted on a US attac ok their Egypt ally. After all they had troops in Egypt and it was not certain how the Sovjets would react.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  278. Anonymous[418] • Disclaimer says:

    From the very first, the NSA had been absolutely certain than the Israeli attack on the Liberty was deliberate

    That same carrier had been hosting 28 journalists from British and American media outlets, and some of these invididuals also had strong recollections

  279. Anonymous[140] • Disclaimer says:

    In the end, US easily pulled Egypt into the American sphere. Wait for Nasser’s death and turn Sadat into a puppet with sweetheart deals.

  280. @Anonymous

    Israel was in a war for survival…

    This was not the case. The Apartheid state’s timing for the war depended upon pissing off the King of Jordan to the point he would join the fighting, at which time the West Bank could be captured and occupied. After this was done it was time for the pissant state to spring its surprise attack.

  281. @JWalters

    Everything Israel does it a false history staring us in the face but we are not allowed to believe what we see. Everything Israel does cannot be criticised or even examined or the “Gang Banging” of any individual or group that speaks out will begin by their forces including the Jewish owned Media, Social Platforms, and Politicians.

    This is a great article by Ron. It explores why Israel is Israel and all the control they have over our government and intelligence agencies. I have no idea if this is true but many years ago people I knew who were into shortwave and ham radio supposedly heard Israeli “Number Stations” come alive with one time codes during the week of all this stuff going on. Supposedly Morse Code was also intercepted and similar stuff was picked up by radio receivers.

    These stations are used to send info that cannot be broken unless you have the pad. It is the only type of message that is impossible to break if done right. You can still hear these codes by Cuba stations in most of the USA on short wave radio. I’m just wondering if anyone still have these messages because many groups would record them.

    If you want some interesting reading how things were done before the digital age look up Havana Moon: Number Stations and related stuff. It’s really quite a good read.

  282. Amazon sellers have priced Operation Cyanide for more than \$100, and even the bookfinder site has the lowest price at \$31.

    Being a firm believer in try-before-you-buy, here is a link to an online pdf of the book.

    https://www.narrowbandimaging.com/incoming/Operation%20Cyanide%20by%20Peter%20Hounam%20(2003).pdf

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  283. @anarchyst

    Limbaugh
    Hannity
    Beck
    Carlson

    All have in common love of their jobs and fear of losing it if they spoke the truth about the Messias-Deniers

  284. Alden says:
    @beau

    1964 civil rights for all but Whites act, 1965 unlimited non White immigration 1968 affirmative action and its gestapo enforcement agency EEOC Johnson was the most destructive traitor president the USA ever had.

    • Replies: @beau
  285. Phoenix says:

    Thanks for logically presenting the data on LBJ’s 1967 effort to serve Israel with a repeat of a Gulf of Tonkin type deception.

    The Liberty episode is another black mark against the LBJ legacy – along with Vietnam War escalation, his cover-up of the JFK assassination and likely participation in the murder.

    The attack on the Liberty and cover-up are powerful dissemination topics. This will help nudge the U.S. population toward critical mass of no longer accepting being ruled by Israel and wealthy Jewish-Americans.

  286. Alden says:

    Listening to a you tube archeology thing about interesting dead bodies in medieval Europe cold case bodies. One group 17 people in a mass grove not near any church or cemetery. Many children. No broken bones smashed skulls or any signs of violence bodies obvious properly laid out. So what happened? DNA showed they were all Jews.

    Immediate segue into how abused Jews were and how evil Eleanor Duchess of Aquitaine, Queen of England cruelly and for no reason kicked the Jews out of her Duchy around the same time. Actually, Queen Eleanor kicked them out because what with their 145 and higher interest rates, balloon payments extra fees and co signers the jews of Aquitaine had acquired massive amounts of property in 50 years . So she expelled them.

    This Jewish mass grave in Norwich England must be the result of the evil goyim massacring innocent jews for the fun of it A historian of Jews in England searched and searched through every archive in Norwich and couldn’t find any anti Jewish or other riots or disturbances in the century these Jews died and were buried. So her explanation is that the evil goyim set fire to Jewish homes at night when the people were asleep and they died of smoke inhalation while still asleep

    Perhaps. My theory is that they died of some epidemic disease Measles was often deadly in medieval Europe. Might he why should many bodies were young children. Or cholera in the water. Or a diphtheria epidemic or whatever. The world was full of epidemics and mass graves of those who died in epidemics in 11 – 1,2000 AD long before the Black Plague

    But disappointed to find no evidence of violent death and the bodies laid out properly this Jewish historian had to make up the goyim set their homes on fire and killed the Jews with smoke inhalation.

    Everywhere there were jews, Europe, Macao, MENA Central Asia jews would bribe the king duke count sheik bishop the person in charge to let them settle and loot the population, The looting would go black n for a century or so. When the 145 interest rates reduced the goyim population to poverty the local leadership would expel them and the looters would move on like nomad gypsies.

  287. Ron Unz says:
    @Zachary Smith

    Amazon sellers have priced Operation Cyanide for more than \$100…

    It’s the image of this article. Over the last couple of days, the Amazon sales rank has increased by a factor of almost 50x, and the price has tripled for the only two remaining copies.

  288. dimples says:
    @Oscar Peterson

    “Why did they not put more torpedoes into her, ”

    I used to think that the Jews were not serious in their attempts to sink the ship, but:

    There were 3 MTBs. According to the trusted impeccable source Wikipedia, the average MTB seems to have 2 launching tubes. Five torpedoes were launched, suggesting that all 3 boats launched both tubes, with one tube empty or containing a dud launch. I would think reloading a torpedo tube at sea would be virtually impossible and would require a crane.

    Therefore, there were no more torpedoes to launch. One hit should normally have sunk the boat, but apparently hit a bulkhead causing the hole to not be as large as usual. Why all the misses? The MTBs were standing back from the ship due to machine gun fire from the Liberty.

    So with one hit the boat should have gone down, but Yahweh was not with the Jews that day.

  289. @04398436986

    Yeah, whoosh.

    This sentence from the article in today’s BBC about an American couple caught stealing military secrets and trying to sell them to a foreign government:

    Some are driven by a desire to prove that, however average they may appear, they are in fact extraordinary individuals, with a big secret.

    calls to mind the Unz comentariat.

  290. LBJ looks Jewish to me. I don’t think America would Nuke Cairo as a knee-jerk reaction to an assault on one single NSA Vessell with only 38 dead. The lack of “Proportionality” would have made Johnson look like a loon. And he would have had no chance of re-election. Drop a nuclear bomb and incinerate hundreds of thousands without even notifying Congress???

    And what about nuclear fallout. What if that radiation cloud hugged the coast and rolled right back at Israel.

    How would an immediate drop of a nuclear bomb TWO hours after a reported attack on a US vessel even be sold to the American people? Would he not need Congressional support to do so???
    At the very minimum, you would need a couple of weeks to react, get consensus and Congressional approval for war with Egypt. The case first has to be meticulously built and rolled out to the voting public.

    So the supposed bombers loaded with nukes on alert status may have just been coincident…as back in the cold war days Nuclear alerts were carried out monthly. Even Bi-weekly. I worked the FB-111 back in 1981-1984, at Pease AFB NH. We had bombers in hardened shelters. Each wing had nukes strapped to the bottom of them. These Alert Planes remained in these bunkers, fully armed and at the constant ready to launch. It was the standard operating procedure. They practiced constantly.

    The nuke Cairo theory does not hold water. The more believable theory is That the JEWS Attacked first in a disgusting display of barbarism. And they were committing horrific war crimes, and all of their radio chatter was being recorded by the USS Liberty. They wanted to silence the witness ….thinking they could blame it on Egypt. When the Americans would not die…..they direct-dialed Johnson.

    Johnson used the Mossad to kill John F. Kennedy and he was fucking their honeypot Mossad Agent. He was their boy. So he steps in and pulls back the fighters flying out to rescue the USS Liberty.

    He later directed the cover-up and silencing of the entire USS Liberty crew. The Jews got their sanitized war of independence…we got 38 dead sailors and Johnson probably got vigorously laid for his help.

  291. Ron Unz says:
    @Suede

    A simple answer to the issue of the armed nukes could be that LBJ needed to prepair the US strategic bombers in case that the Soviet Union reacted on a US attac ok their Egypt ally. After all they had troops in Egypt and it was not certain how the Sovjets would react.

    That’s absolutely correct with regard to the evidence that our SAC bombers in the US were put on full war-alert an hour or two before the Liberty was hit. It provides strong evidence that LBJ had obvious foreknowledge of the Israeli attack, hence was probably complicit. But it doesn’t really say anything about whether our planned “retaliatory” strike against Egypt might be nuclear.

    The only evidence for the supposed nuclear strike is the large amount of personal testimony to that effect, which I summarized in my long article. You really should watch the BBC documentary (on Youtube) and the 4 hour Sacrificing Liberty documentary produced last year, listen to some of the testimony, and then decide for yourself how credible it seems.

  292. I managed to get to Chapter 6 of Blood in the Water before throwing up my hands. In my opinion the book has no redeeming features whatever.

    Just guessing now, but I suspect this was published as an attempt to further muddy the water. This many years after the 1967 event even the crew memories are suspect. Only the things they put magnetic tape or wrote on paper within the first 10 years or so after the attack ought to be trusted.

  293. Ron Unz says:

    Incidentally, as I mentioned in my article, Alison Weir’s If Americans Knew website provides a very useful collection of republished articles and other documents related to the Liberty:

    https://ifamericansknew.org/us_ints/ussliberty.html

    Among other items, there’s a helpful timeline, allowing a framework for discussing the incident:

    https://ifamericansknew.org/us_ints/ul-ameu.html

  294. @Anonymous

    Scorpion’s loss was no mystery, just swept under the rug. For safe operation submarines need about 18 months maintenance for every 2 years at sea. USS Scorpion was the victim of an experimental program to reduce costs by greatly reducing maintenance. This also reduced drydock time and therefore increased time at sea. This was an unwise policy because not only was necessary maintenance neglected leading to inoperable systems but the longer duration sea time increased wear and tear on already stressed components. Common sense tells you a catastrophic failure was inevitable. After Scorpion’s loss the program was cancelled. No one’s career suffered for this stupidity and the whole fiasco was swept under the rug. There was one Able Seaman who was able to reveal the truth years later as he was released from duty for family reasons just days before Scorpion’s final voyage. He described a real mess on board with leaks and breakdowns everywhere.

    • Replies: @Truth Vigilante
  295. @Wizard of Oz

    Admiral Morrison certainly knew USS Liberty was on station, that was his job. The location of every friendly and hostile ship and aircraft on or over the Med would have been monitored in the Combat Information Center. He responded promptly to the SOS by launching a jet fighter attack force, so he obviously knew USS Liberty’s location, otherwise the pilots could not have been guided in. Admiral Morrison would never have offered the zionists information about USN naval operations. Certainly he would not have told them a quadrant was free of USN vessels without confirming it. Quarterbergmasterstein’s assertion is absurd on its face.

    • Thanks: Wizard of Oz
  296. @Avery

    The Soviets knew that USS Liberty was the most advanced spy ship in the planet. This was an opportunity to get in close they would never get otherwise, take photos, maybe even board on the pretext of “helping” her, have a look around, lift some documents, take on wounded Liberty sailors, give them morphine and have a “friendly chat”. Remember in 1968 the Soviets got the North Koreans to seize USS Pueblo. This was done because the Soviets had recently received a mass of info from…was it Aldrich Ames?…and they needed some hardware Pueblo had on board to really exploit it. There was no goodwill involved in Soviet Ship 626/4 “hanging around”, merely national self interest.

    • Replies: @Truth Vigilante
    , @Avery
  297. @Alden

    How does that calculation work.

  298. Mark Hunter says: • Website
    @David Martin

    Mr. Martin is so shy and retiring.  Amazon reviews of his book can be found at The Assassination of James Forrestal and a glossary of his online articles on the subject here.

  299. Brewer says:
    @Exile

    Norm Finklestein’s review of Oren’s book deals with the Liberty:
    http://www.ussliberty.org/orenbook.htm

    Oren’s account of events attendant on the June war frequently descends to vulgar propaganda. Deeming the Israeli combined air and naval assault on the U.S.S. Liberty, in which 34 U.S. Navy men were killed and 171 wounded, an “accident” and an “incident [of] faulty identifications,” Oren rehashes official Israeli tales and embellishes on them with his own whoppers. He avers that Israeli reconnaissance pilots flying just overhead on a cloudless morning missed noticing the Liberty’s five-by-eight-foot American flag fluttering in the wind because they “were not looking for the Liberty, but rather for Egyptian submarines”; that “the IDF could have easily sunk the Liberty,” although with the IDF’s extended air attack using missiles, cannon and napalm, followed by a torpedo attack followed by sustained fire on the crippled vessel that left 2/3 of the crew dead or wounded, the miracle is that the Liberty managed, just barely, to stay afloat; and that Israeli ships, after torpedoing the Liberty, “ceased firing the instant the mistake was realized and offered to assist the ship,” although surviving members of the crew uniformly testify that the Israeli ships fired from close range after the torpedo explosion and after stopping near the fantail, where the Liberty’s name and hull number appeared in large letters (a new oversized American flag had also been unfurled), finally firing on the life rafts in the water, and then left the area for more than an hour before returning to offer assistance (SDW: pp. 264, 271).

  300. Ron Unz is a brave and exceptional man. Guided by pure reason is too tough for the average individual. I say this with all sincerity. Thanks for your work Mr. Unz.

  301. From everything I have ever heard or read about the guy, Lyndon B. Johnson was probably the most corrupt of all the presidents. This is based on not just what he did as president but on his actions as a politician in general.

    • Replies: @Stones
  302. This seems to attempt to whitewash the jewrats interests in starting ww2 and the attack on the liberty and instead make them both the singular fault of american presidents and bad political situations.
    I dont believe this for 1 second UNLESS we look at who created the bad political positions and who counselled the sitting presidents and they turn put to be jews. We already know from benjamin freedmans 1961 speech that the jews started ww2 and that they brought us in specifically.
    As for the liberty it is obvious that the jews at the time wanted us to completely destroy egypt for the future without so much risk to themselves. This would also poison arab nations against the usa for a long time which would benefit jews and israel amd would also strain relations with the USSR but leave israel itself off the hook for most of the damage in egypt AND AT THE SAME TIME, it would guarantee that the ussr wouldnt intercede directly against israel in the present conflict.
    Theres ZERO possibility that both of these were started merely by presidential selfish purpose without the entire situation being set up by jews for their own benefit.

  303. Mike-SMO says:

    The report and the comments seem to dance around the Soviet v US situation. As I recall reading, much of the “Egyptian” Air Force was actually Soviet aircraft flown by Soviet crews. Israel appeared to be dealing well with the “tactical” operation, most likely with American aid, but the central American concernwas the likely/actual presence of Soviet strategic weapons that would threaten Europe and the American Navy units offshore, as well as Israel and 9the Suez Canal. A nuclear attack would have been designed to target Soviet forces in Egypt, not “Egypt” itself. This would suggest that the Administration of LBJ had “paniced” and felt it had no other option except a sudden attack on the Soviet forces, as opposed to engaging in a long-term political struggle.

    Since Israel was very dependent on the US for support, it is quite conceivable that Israel could have been coerced into making the attack on the Liberty. Israel had shown itself to be capable of effective, devastating attacks. The ineffectiveness of the attack on the Liberty may have been a reaction of the MTB and aircraft crews when they discovered that the “target” was a “friendly”. The orders might have been in error, hence, “Ooops! I missed.” The Israeli and US commands might have been aware of the operation, however the crews may have been kept in the dark, hoping that they would follow orders and executes a quick, savage attack. The entire plan then unwound.

    Is there any reliable and coherent evidence that this was a botched plan by LBL to launch a pre-emptive attack on Soviet forces in Egypt?

  304. @Anonymous

    Israel was in a war for survival …

    Total rubbish. Israel was in a war started by Israel to steal yet more land. Jewish naked aggression.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  305. @Patrick McNally

    You wrote:

    Whatever you may think a small minority of elitist Jews may have wanted, there’s no way on earth that the vast majority of people who voted for LBJ in 1964 would have voted for him again after nuking Cairo.

    I’m aware that there were TV adverts run in the 1964 campaign (someone posted a video in this thread), emphasising Goldwater’s gung ho foreign policy position that might result in nuclear armageddon.

    Yes, viewed in isolation, nuking a city and incinerating civilians is going to turn a lot of citizens against you.
    HOWEVER, if you nuked a despicable enemy as vengeance for the murder of ‘our innocent boys’ on the USS Liberty, non combat personnel who were minding their own business doing routine intelligence gathering before being set upon by the treacherous Egyptians (or so the story will go, as the Zio owned MSM milks this story for everything it’s worth), this is an entirely different set of circumstances altogether.

    9/11 was only 20 years ago.
    Have you forgotten the response from the American public in the immediate aftermath ?
    Have you forgotten the thirst for vengeance that was whipped up into a frenzy by the MSM ?
    Have you forgotten how Bush 43’s popularity went through the roof when he uttered platitudes like : ‘This heinous act against civilians will not be allowed to stand’, (or words to that effect).

    So too would LBJ have enjoyed a surge in popularity as the media and various talking heads on the TV told the American people (assuming Cairo had been nuked):

    ‘Well yes, we did nuke them but it’s not as though they were first world civilised people like us.
    After all, they were just untermenschen rag-heads who ‘hated us for our way of life’ etc.

    And the American public would’ve just nodded their heads and gone along with it – in the same manner they did post Hiroshima and Nagasaki when not 1 in a 1000 Americans ever lost any sleep over the what their country had just done.
    (For most, the remorse didn’t kick in until the 1970’s and 1980’s).

    The fact is, JFK had laid the foundations for detente and reduced tensions with the Soviet Union during his tenure and voters thought that LBJ, as JFK’s subordinate would continue where his predecessor left off.

    This, coupled to the fact that there was a tidal wave of mourning for JFK that would naturally manifest itself in support for his party at the next election (irrespective of who was at the helm).

    In addition, seeing as many would’ve perceived LBJ as Kennedy’s trusted ‘hand picked successor’, this automatically ensured LBJ’s landslide victory in the 1964 election.

    • Thanks: John Wear
    • Replies: @turtle
    , @Patrick McNally
  306. @Ron Unz

    You wrote:

    There was certainly a sub involved with the Liberty, maybe the Amberjack or maybe one of a couple of others. There are claims floating around regarding the role of the sub ….

    The Amberjack was definitely on the scene that day.

    As for the alleged torpedo it fired that struck the Liberty, although sworn to secrecy at risk of court martial (or worse), Amberjack crewmen that day were not all conscience-free.

    They knew a torpedo had been fired.

    Moreover, when Amberjack returned to its home port in Kings Bay Georgia or USN Submarine Base New London Connecticut (or wherever it was operating from in 1967), the naval Quartermaster (in charge of resupply and replenishment of munitions), would’ve noted that the Amberjack was down one torpedo.

    Of course, torpedoes are also expended in training exercises (Note: no such exercises had been conducted involving the Amberjack in any period even remotely close to June 1967).

    There existed numerous naval personnel that would’ve been in a position to know that Amberjack had fired a torpedo in the eastern Mediterranean and maybe, just maybe, some of them have spoken (anonymously) in the last 54 years.

    Just sayin’ ….

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  307. @Bombercommand

    You wrote:

    Scorpion’s loss was no mystery, just swept under the rug. USS Scorpion was the victim of an experimental program to reduce costs by greatly reducing maintenance.

    That may be the ‘official’ explanation for the loss of the nuclear powered Scorpion SSN-589, but 1968 was quite an unusual year (LBJ’s final full year in office), as far as submarine mishaps was concerned.

    Four (4) submarines were lost, with all hands on board that year:

    1) Jan 25 1968: Israeli sub IN Dakar.
    2) Jan 27 1968: French sub Minerve.
    3) Mar 8 1968: Soviet sub K-129 (after a suspected collision with the sub USS Swordfish).
    4) May 22 1968: USS Scorpion.

    Were all the sinkings independent of one another and coincidentally in the same year or was there a tit-for-tat between the Soviets and western allied nations ?

    With the reckless LBJ as Criminal-In-Chief at the helm, I wouldn’t be surprised if the U.S reaped what it sowed in the way of pointless provocations towards the Soviets (the Israelis and French perhaps being collateral damage).

    More than a few researchers have said that USS Scorpion was sunk by a Soviet sub – perhaps in retaliation for the loss of K-129 (which may have suffered more than just ‘collision damage’ at the hands of Swordfish).

    • Replies: @Bombercommand
  308. @Bombercommand

    Still on the subject of Soviet ship 626/4, comes the following article titled ‘The USS Liberty’s Russian Angels’:

    https://nationalvanguard.org/2019/04/the-uss-libertys-russian-angels/

    From the article:

    Soviet operations of the time or in order to avoid going on the record in contradiction of the United States’ official narrative on the Liberty attack in too much detail – have denied (or at least not volunteered) the presence of the destroyer 626/4 in the eastern Mediterranean ….

    That seems to be the way of the Soviets. There’s no mileage to be gained for the Soviets in providing an alternative to the official U.S government narrative on any particular event.

    At the end of the day, the Zio owned western MSM would just call the Soviets liars and say things about them like:

    ‘Well, they would say that, wouldn’t they ?’.

    [MORE]

    And the gullible Boobus Americanus would swallow what Walter Cronkite or Dan Rather told them on the nightly news because they were ‘pillars of honest journalism’ who would never lie about something like that (focus especially from 2:05 – 2:20 in this video):

    Yes, that’s Dan Rather after being allowed to watch footage of the Zapruder film, telling us what he allegedly saw. ie: that JFK’s head ‘moved violently forward’ after the head shot – implying a shooter from behind.
    In actual fact though, JFK’s head had moved BACK and to the left – as would be the case when applying the Law of Conservation of Momentum for a shot fired from the front and to the right.

    Just like the Soviets knew that Apollo 11 produced no Moon walkers, they’ve never been ones to expose grandiose U.S fraudulence.

    They prefer to sit back and watch as easily duped Americans are subjected to yet another scam at the hands of their corrupt ruling elite.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  309. Mevashir says:

    This torturously convoluted and sinister article that suggests the 1967 Israeli attack on the USS Liberty was a joint American-Israeli false flag operation provides a clear framework to understand what happened on 9/11 as well. Thank you Ron Unz for processing all of this information for the rest of us. And thanks to your mother for endeavoring to raise you in difficult circumstances. The UR is more and more resembling Reader’s Indigestion!

    • Agree: Mevashir
  310. @Truth Vigilante

    BS. Almost 100 per cent that the Soviet ship’s intelligence officers would have made a photographic and wireless record and they would have been available from the early 90s.

    • Replies: @Truth Vigilante
  311. @Truth Vigilante

    I have another bridge for your collection going cheap. Just in case you can’t work it out, the torpedoing of USS Liberty by Amberjack would be up front in the fence of the Israelis by both Israeli and USG.

  312. @Ann Nonny Mouse

    But Israelis did think their wars against the Arabs were all wars for survival and it was not an irrational view..

  313. turtle says:
    @Truth Vigilante

    HOWEVER, if you nuked a despicable enemy as vengeance for the murder of ‘our innocent boys’ on the USS Liberty, non combat personnel who were minding their own business doing routine intelligence gathering before being set upon by the treacherous Egyptians (or so the story will go, as the Zio owned MSM milks this story for everything it’s worth), this is an entirely different set of circumstances altogether.

    ‘Well yes, we did nuke them but it’s not as though they were first world civilised people like us.
    After all, they were just untermenschen rag-heads who ‘hated us for our way of life’ etc.

    Yes, exactly.

  314. beau says:
    @Alden

    we are in total agreement on that texas pustule that occupied the White House.

  315. RE re VER ver BURR ber (n) ations to today…. See wikipedia for Chuck Robb who married Lyndon’s daughter.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Robb

    Notice involvement in Iraq Study Group, Iraq Intelligence Group, Trilateral Commission, CFR, President’s Intelligence Advisory Board, Bipartisan Policy Center, MITRE and he is a Demorat. Silberman on the Iraq Intelligence Commission also. Always the servants of Israel/Illuminati-UK-US/Globalist goals.

    also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Texas Nothing wrong with saving children from wars. But this establishes early ties between Johnson and Israeli interests.

    • Replies: @ImaBotKnot
  316. Caruthers says:
    @Mevashir

    As noted by Ilan Pappe in his book co-authored with Chomsky, this has caused bitterness and disillusionment among many Israeli Jews, since members of the Master Race should live in luxury, not poverty, in the Jewish state.

    • Agree: Mevashir
    • Replies: @Mevashir
  317. Caruthers says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    The Israeli leadership knew otherwise. The Israeli public believed the leadership’s lies of an existential threat, which they were disinclined to question because it accords with millennia-long Jewish propaganda about intractable and irrational Gentile antisemitism.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  318. Art says:

    Mr. Unz congratulations on your pursuit of the Israelis on the USS liberty – you will prevail.

  319. so the enemy broke off the attack and retreated.

    Israel the enemy? Oh dear.

    • Replies: @mulga mumblebrain
  320. @Truth Vigilante

    If we want to guess the likely response the place to look is not at September 11, 2001, but more pertinent is April 15, 1967. This saw a wave of large antiwar protests occurring in various places around the US. The suspicions around the Tonkin Gulf incident were already widespread in the public mind. If LBJ had now launched a nuclear strike against Egypt while offering an explanation sounding very similar to the Tonkin Gulf story then all of those antiwar demonstrations would have grown exponentially.

    • Replies: @Truth Vigilante
  321. @ImaBotKnot

    Picture/representation of Flight 77 hitting the pentagon

    https://www.wect.com/story/15412736/wilmington-man-helps-rebuild-the-pentagon-after-911-attacks/

    Sure looks like they were just targeting those accountants in that section of the pentagon.

  322. Mevashir says:
    @Caruthers

    … since members of the Master Race should live in luxury, not poverty, in the Jewish state. Many do. Just not most. And they pump up Iran and other external threats to distract the Jewish riff-raff from the ponzi scam Israel has turned into.

  323. Achilles says:

    Nice work with your research and writing, Ron.

    Ron had it right when he suggested that the notion of an intended American nuclear strike against Egypt is preposterous, outlandish, ridiculous and absurd.

    Neither is it plausible that such an attack by Israel, sinking an American ship and killing hundreds of American sailors, would be undertaken merely for the purpose of keeping the US from monitoring Israeli war crimes. Israel had other more effective ways of protecting itself from the American government or from adverse media coverage in such circumstances.

    In my view, the most logical justification for such an attack would have been to protect Israel’s nuclear weapons from being monitored by US intelligence and from possibly having the US military or intelligence agencies somehow interfere with or jeopardize the ability of Israel to maintain these weapons and, if necessary, deploy and use them.

    We know that US intelligence agencies were aware that Israel had managed to produce functional nuclear bombs prior to the Six-Day War. Israel almost certainly also had moles in these agencies keeping it abreast of what the Americans knew in order to better protect their position through actions by President Johnson and others sympathetic to Israel in the US government. James J. Angleton was probably such a person.

    And I think it quite likely on the evidence that Israel played a role in replacing JFK with LBJ in order to protect its ability to have its own nuclear weapons force, which JFK opposed.

    The greatest secret of the Six-Day War is how were these Israeli nuclear weapons deployed in that conflict and what was the planning by the Israeli government and military chiefs for their possible use? Obviously, if the worst possible outcome for the Israelis on the battlefield were to be realized and the situation could be reversed only by the use of nuclear weapons, the Israelis would not have failed to use them to prevent the destruction of Israel.

    I offered some speculation on how a desire to safeguard the Israeli nuclear weapons from American intelligence monitoring might have figured into the Israeli attack on the Liberty here in a JFK assassination thread:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-jfk-assassination-part-ii-who-did-it/?showcomments#comment-2399148

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-jfk-assassination-part-ii-who-did-it/?showcomments#comment-2400007

    However, unless some elderly Israeli whistleblower comes forward or the relevant Israeli government files were to be made public, I don’t think we’ll ever know the precise thinking behind the attack on the Liberty or how it related to the possible safeguarding or use of the Israeli nuclear weapons force, but I do believe it is most likely that they are connected.

    • Thanks: Mevashir
    • Replies: @Mevashir
    , @Mevashir
  324. @Alden

    I’m unfamiliar with “Lyndon Johnson impos[ing] affirmative action”. Can you enlarge on that, not least on how it could be perverted as you describe?

  325. Thomasina says:

    That was an excellent article. Superb job, Ron Unz!

  326. @Caruthers

    I doubt if the Israeli leaders were so sure of survival on 1948 boundaries with hundreds of millions of enemies surrounding them and still nominally at war.

    • Replies: @Caruthers
  327. Mevashir says:
    @Achilles

    However, unless some elderly Israeli whistleblower comes forward or the relevant Israeli government files were to be made public, I don’t think we’ll ever know the precise thinking behind the attack on the Liberty or how it related to the possible safeguarding or use of the Israeli nuclear weapons force, but I do believe it is most likely that they are connected.

    I imagine Mordechai Vanunu knows the truth, but he has been effectively silenced:

    • Thanks: Oscar Peterson
  328. Mevashir says:
    @Achilles

    Ron had it right when he suggested that the notion of an intended American nuclear strike against Egypt is preposterous, outlandish, ridiculous and absurd.

    I think you have misunderstood Ron’s article:

    During the three generations since World War II, America has ranked as the world’s leading superpower, with its military possessing unmatched global reach and strength. Although the Liberty was a nearly defenseless intelligence ship sailing international waters, our powerful Sixth Fleet was nearby, so the deadly attack upon the vessel was not merely an obvious war-crime, but a very strange one, perhaps the most serious that our forces had suffered in decades, yet still entirely unpunished even today.

    Solving such a crime usually involves a careful consideration of means, motive, and opportunity. There is no doubt that Israel’s military deliberately attacked our ship, but the other two legs of the tripod remain puzzling. The risks that Israel took in its unprovoked attack against the ship of its sole ally were enormous. And the opportunity to sink the Liberty only came about due to a long and very strange series of supposed American communication errors. But if we accept the framework proposed by Hounam, Nelson, Mellen, and their adherents and postulate the secret involvement of President Lyndon Johnson, both these difficulties immediately disappear.

    Planning to sacrifice a few hundred American lives and risk World War III to bolster his reelection chances would obviously add a very black mark to the reputation of our 36th president. But based upon my extensive historical research, I do not think he would have been the first American leader to have followed this sort of callous political calculus, although such decisions were afterward concealed by later generations of historians. Indeed, a couple of years ago, I came to very similar conclusions regarding the primary architect behind the outbreak of World War II:

  329. fish says:
    @anarchyst

    Hannity knows who signs his paychecks.

  330. Avery says:
    @Bombercommand

    Your version of “Why….” makes the most sense.

    • Thanks: Bombercommand
  331. In John McPhee’s The Curve of Binding Energy, Ted Taylor said the art of Nuclear devices was so sophisticated in the mid-60’s that “if you wanted one to spew out nothing but green paint, you could do that”.

    He also discussed the ‘size’ of a device: suggesting a complete implosion bomb could have the size of a small cantelope, – but NOT as small as an orange. . .

    The Davy Crockett device was less than 6” diameter by about 11” long; that was 1958-61. Man-paks are smaller today.

    At the time of the Liberty attack, the authority to use a theater tactical nuke was vested in line officers as low in rank as 2nd Lt. (i.e. Tank Commander).

    “Nuking Egypt” could have meant all manner of things, the majority of which would NOT have been strategic city-leveling devices but rather, much smaller yield, tactical front-line devices. Devices hauled around by fighter-bombers would most likely NOT have been large yield city-leveling devices but would rather have been tactical yield – bridge and airstrip demolitions.

    I’m convinced LBJ was crazy enough to have authorized the use of nukes anytime, anywhere, for any, or NO reason. He had a lot of choices to choose from.

  332. @Wizard of Oz

    Dunce of Oz writes:

    Almost 100 per cent that the Soviet ship’s intelligence officers would have made a photographic and wireless record and they would have been available from the early 90s.

    Yes of course, what was I thinking.

    Just like, after almost 60 years, we can put in a FOI request and get unredacted transcripts of ALL U.S government/CIA documents pertaining to the JFK assassination.

    Similarly, the Russians would never hold back any info because Dunce of Oz has been through all their archives and knows every bit of it is accessible to the public.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  333. @Patrick McNally

    You wrote:

    If LBJ had now launched a nuclear strike against Egypt while offering an explanation sounding very similar to the Tonkin Gulf story then all of those antiwar demonstrations would have grown exponentially

    .

    Most people who hear the words ‘nuclear strike’ imagine city destroying thermonuclear Megaton equivalent devices. (Bear in mind that the Hiroshima bomb was of the order of 12-15kT whereas a 50 MT bomb = 50 Million tons of TNT equivalent.)

    Of course, since the 1950’s, the major powers have had smaller tactical nukes at their disposal, some as small as 0.1kT.

    (Refer also to Comment # 334 fro Orchardist who puts it nicely).

    Bear in mind that the tactical nuke that the Apartheid Israeli State hit Beirut with in August 2020 was estimated at around 4-6 kT (about a third the size of the Hiroshima blast), so it’s not inconceivable that a similar larger-than-average sized tactical nuke could have been used on Cairo to send them a message, in conjunction with a range of smaller tactical nukes directed at key military and government installations on the orders of LBJ.

    • Replies: @Patrick McNally
  334. Caruthers says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Israeli leaders knew they’d prevail in the 1967 war, which is why they started it (as did LBJ, who, in approving Israeli aggression beforehand, informed the Israelis that American analysts believe “you’ll whip the hell out of them.”).

    The overwhelming majority of those 100 million “enemies of Israel” were only enemies in thought and word, but not in deed; they were no more inclined to fight and die for dispossessed Palestinians than Italians would be willing to fight and die for dispossessed Lithuanians.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @L.K
  335. @Truth Vigilante

    Are you not aware of the much greater access there was to Sovier archuves in the chaotic 90s under Yeltsin? And why would the Russians have given *any* attention to withholding evidence of that alleged Soviet ship? Turn brain on.

    • Replies: @mulga mumblebrain
  336. @Caruthers

    Yes, but. I think we are mostly in dispute over timing and the long term security of a country not recognised by its neighbours. And the temperament of different leaders. One can well imagine that some might say that surviving as the country which spends most on arms, even conscripts women, and has to be ready to strike first because ine big defeat could unfortunately almost everything, was not the kind of survival they had in mind in perpetuity.

  337. @Truth Vigilante

    Putting nukes completely aside, there’s no reason at all to think that a new war started by LBJ would have resulted in anything other than more antiwar protests, which were already ongoing. It certainly would not have reelected LBJ.

  338. @Truth Vigilante

    Loss of USS Scorpion due to the reduced maintenance program was NEVER the official explanation. SecDef officials, private contractors, and USN staff officers would have been ranked over the coals, so it was swept under the rug. Your suggestion Scorpion was sunk by a Soviet submarine is ridiculous, as is the rest of your comment. Despite the Cold War competition, the liaison between Soviet and American forces was quite good, and still is, between Russian and American commands. Neither side was, or is, eager to face the prowess of the other. On the whole, the Russians are the weaker, and know it, but they also know The United States has no existential strategic conflicts with The Russian Federation.

    • Replies: @Truth Vigilante
  339. @Wizard of Oz

    Silly Wiz-most of those Soviet ‘archives’ were faked by the Yelstin regime and its Western controllers.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @L.K
  340. @Wizard of Oz

    Bullshit, Sabbat Goy. They were ALL from 1947, save 1973, wars for Eretz Yisrael, ie territorial expansion. In ALL of them Israel was militarily far stronger than its victims, and, after 1967, nuclear-armed.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  341. Anon[159] • Disclaimer says:

    I wonder how many persons extant know the Truth about the Jews?

    6,000?

    60,000?

    600,000?

    6,000,000?

    What is the critical mass, to actually push back, and dismantle the Tower of Lies that the Jews have built?

  342. @Bombercommand

    You wrote:

    Your suggestion Scorpion was sunk by a Soviet submarine is ridiculous, as is the rest of your comment.

    I suggest you read Ed Offley’s book: ‘Scorpion Down: Sunk by the Soviets, Buried by the Pentagon: The Untold Story of the USS Scorpion’:

    As one reviewer of the book said:

    The author did a good job at explaining how the Walker spry ring, the USS Peublo, and the Soviet submarine K-219 were all connected and how they influenced the sinking of the USS Scorpion.

    Another reviewer said:

    Offley has I think, made a fair, if not airtight case, that Scorpion was torpedoed by a Russian sub.

    As for the rest of my comment that you claim is ridiculous, can you provide a single year (outside of war), when even two naval submarines of major nations were lost, let alone FOUR in a 16 week period as occurred in early 1968 ?

    If not, you should pull your head in Bomber and do some actual research before you cast aspersions against others – lest you end up with even more egg on your face.

  343. @mulga mumblebrain

    I can well recall a distinguished Australian Jewish journalist whose sophistication and general knowledge would certainly have matched that of the average Israeli cabinet member making a point of how very few miles separated what is now the West Bank from the sea (hardly even long range artillery distance… I don’t remember exactly how he put the point: maybe how easily Israel could be cut in half by an invading force). It is not hard to imagine serious people expressing the view “well never be secure while an Arab Leaugue tank regiment could be just an hour from Tel Aviv”.

    • Troll: mulga mumblebrain
    • Replies: @mulga mumblebrain
  344. lanskrim says:
    @One-off

    The Liberty Lobby was taken out for all intents and purposes after a poorly sourced albeit accurate article about the attack appeared in a magazine it published, THE BEACON (I may have conflated groups and publications here but think that is correct; if not, someone please correct it)

    The Spotlight was LL’s publication

    • Thanks: One-off
  345. @mulga mumblebrain

    The sources you rely on for that? You are of course saying that many experienced historians and researchers were fooled by a concentrated effort to direct scarce resources to employing immensely skilled people to anticipate the likely critical areas of inquiry where deceptiion would be necessary and to produce convincing fakes with the technology then available**.

    You haven’t even switched your brain on well enough to consider why there would be any reason to fake the records about the Soviet ship.

    **if you are not just a fairly primitive bot the name Dacre as clue might make you suggest an exception to my point about available technology. But I would point to the immense amount of time invested, and the big monetary reward.

    • Troll: mulga mumblebrain
  346. L.K says:
    @mulga mumblebrain

    most of those Soviet ‘archives’ were faked by the Yelstin regime and its Western controllers

    You pulled that “info” right out of your ass.

    What’s next? Are you going to claim that the Putin government handed over to the Poles fake documents proving that it was indeed the NKVD that shot the Poles at Katyn and elsewhere?
    The same Putin government that has passed legislation fining and/or jailing -for up to 5 years- any historians or independent researchers in Russia who dare to expose the many falsehoods concerning the so called great patriotic war?

    The Soviet archives were largely closed again, and access is granted only to Court Historians, such as the israeli Gabriel Gorodetsky.

    • Thanks: Arthur MacBride
    • Replies: @mulga mumblebrain
  347. Search Engine Brezhnev 6 day war

    https://www.wilsoncenter.org/blog-post/brezhnevs-secret-six-day-war-speech

    According to Brezhnev, the Soviet Union was even willing to join the war. Brezhnev wanted to save the Arab coalition forces from total defeat after the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) had conquered the Syrian main base, El-Quneitra, on the Golan Heights. For the IDF, the fall of El-Quneitra opened the road to the Syrian capital, Damascus. In this very crucial moment, the Syrian regime begged the Soviet Union to do whatever possible to stop the Israelis within the next two to three hours.

    The Soviet leadership, according to Brezhnev, reacted immediately. A Soviet flotilla operating in the Mediterranean Sea received orders to head for the Syrian coast. At the same time, the USSR declared a breach of diplomatic relations with Israel and indirectly threatened to take up arms against the Jewish State. Only one hour later, the United States under President Lyndon B. Johnson realized the seriousness of the situation and signaled to Moscow: Israel was willing to cease fire. Damascus was saved. On the evening of June 10, 1967, the Six-Day War was over.

    Not that one should trust Sink Tanks like The Wilson Center.

    June 1967 (5 6 7) …. June 8 USS Liberty attacked by Israel, (and Jonhson Administration) False Flag unsuccessful ( 9 ) June 10 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quneitra captured by Israel, then war over…..

    Sept. 11, 2001 False Flag by City of London, Tony Blair, Rothschilds, Committee of 300, Bilderbergs/Just about every aspect of top of US Government, Intelligence, State Department, US Military, Industry both Democrat and Republican/ Israel, Sharon, Netanyahu, Dayan, Halevy, Silverstein, Zakheim, Chertoff, all the other duals/Saudi Intel like Bandar-with ties to sovereign wealth funds in such as Rothschild accounts – SUCCESSFUL 20 years of war in the Middle East.

    https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=10694216 6 Day war timeline

    Post Script….. Trust the Science, Along with wars…..The Biowarfare agents/injections will also CULL THE HERD.

    • Thanks: Truth Vigilante
    • Replies: @ImaBotKnot
  348. L.K says:
    @Caruthers

    Caruthers, you are absolutely correct.
    In his book “Ten Myths About Israel”, Israeli historian Ilan Pappe discusses the 1967 war in chapter 6. I quote:

    In June 1982, following Israel’s assault on Lebanon, there was much debate concerning the official announcement that the nation had “no choice” but to follow the violent course of action it had taken. At that time, the Israeli public was divided between those who deemed the campaign necessary and justified and those who doubted its moral validity. In making their points both sides used the 1967 war as a benchmark, identifying the earlier conflict as an unimpeachable example of a war of “no choice.” This is a myth.1

    According to this accepted narrative, the 1967 war forced Israel to occupy the West Bank and the Gaza Strip and keep it in custody until the Arab world, or the Palestinians, were willing to make peace with the Jewish state. Consequently another myth emerges—which I will discuss in a separate chapter—namely that the Palestinian leaders are intransigent and that therefore peace is impossible. This argument thus generates the impression that the Israeli rule is temporary: the territories have to remain in custody pending a more “reasonable” Palestinian position.

    In order to re-evaluate the 1967 war we first need to go back to the war of 1948. …

    Another good source for this is Alan Hart’s “Zionism: The Real Enemy of the Jews, Volume 3”.

    If this foolish pro-Israel shill, “wizard of oz”, spent a little more time researching instead of SPAMMING, this moron would not so frequently make a fool out of himself.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  349. The Jack Blood Show – Jack Interviews Jeff Gates (NWO insider / http://www.criminalstate.com) (06-0812)

    In regards to LBJ and the 67 war Jeff Gates, who is one of the more reputable commentators on such matters, alleges that LBJ was carrying on in the White House with ex Irgun terrorist Mathilde Krim, wife of Arthur Krim who was an LBJ advisor and finance chairman for the Democrat party, the very night the war began.

    https://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2017/07/httpwwwhaaretzcomus-news1800584.html

    • Thanks: SolontoCroesus
  350. Sort of a point of semantics but the Zionists do not have a “state,” as by definition a “state” has defined borders. A far more correct term is ” the Zionist entity.” For those interested, Ryan Dawson and ” Syria Girl Partisan” do fairly good videos around this subject, though I find Syria Girl harder to take seriously since she has gained about 50lbs and gotten ridiculous collagen lip injections. Dawson and his ” Anti- Neocon Report” still very good though.

  351. Stones says:

    I am of that era. The people underdeck who died from the torpedo blast were my comrades, my colleagues in previous years, though unknown personally. We swore the same oath. For me, this event is personal.

    Of course the Israelis did it. We don’t need the “missing” tapes from the RC-121 to know that. That it was a deliberate attack was known with certainty or strongly suspected from the 1st day by nearly everyone in the Federal Government that mattered. The media lied, projecting the idea that “those in the know” knew it was just a big blunder by our affable ally Israel. That anyone who thought otherwise was just a bit unhinged.

    I remember being concerned prior to that time about the wisdom of giving security clearances to jews. This event solidified and structured these concerns. How prescient considering the later Jonathan Pollard catastrophe. But we, as a nation have learned nothing.

    One great benefit for the future that the jews did got out of all of this was to confirm their power to bamboozle the public; that is the ability to turn the fig leaf yarn of “mistaken” identity into a suit of armor via the powers that be.
    —–
    I am not sure anyone has mentioned this yet, a well known technical detail about the torpedo attack . That is related to the alibi of the target being mistaken for an Egyptian horse carrier:

    The running depth setting of the torpedo which hit the Liberty was optimized for the Liberty, not the horse carrier . That torpedo would have passed under the smaller, shallower draft Egyptian ship. Running a torpedo deep (but not too deep and missing) will maximize the damage by making a bigger hole. It will also speed the ship flooding due to higher head pressure at the hole increasing the rate of flooding.

    • Replies: @Angiekens
  352. Joe Meadors says: • Website

    I’ve emailed Ron and asked for permission to post his article on our USS Liberty Veterans Association’s Blog at https://usslibertyveterans.blog.

    I suspect he is inundated with emails so if anyone knows a way to contact him please do so and tell him to be on the lookout for my email.

    Joe Meadors
    USS Liberty Survivor
    Director of Operations, USS Liberty Veterans Association

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  353. Pascal says:
    @RoatanBill

    Truer words have never been spoken!

  354. Joel N. says:

    This is a truly encyclopedic overview of the Liberty “incident.” It is so well written: lucid, well structured, easily parsed. Thank you, Ron Unz!

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  355. Ron Unz says:
    @Joe Meadors

    I’ve emailed Ron and asked for permission to post his article on our USS Liberty Veterans Association’s Blog at https://usslibertyveterans.blog.

    I’d be honored to have you republish my article, and I’ve now replied to your note.

    Google’s gmail had sent it to my “Spam” folder, which seems to happen more and more these days to anything considered “controversial.”

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  356. Stones says:
    @Dr. Charles Fhandrich

    Agreed
    There was a softcover book I read about the time of the Johnson election called “A Texan Looks at Lyndon” by a Texas University professor. The book detailed much of this low-life who became President including being a hotel pimp in San Bernardino Calif. as a young man.

    There was also a discovery only two decade or so ago, by a grad student researcher that as a Congressman, he was central to a scheme in the late 30’s or early 40’s to evade Federal law and bring in 100’s maybe 1000’s of jews into the US/Texas in collaboration with Jewish mobsters. Jack Ruby’s friends? This guy was obviously connected.

    • Replies: @Dr. Charles Fhandrich
  357. Angiekens says:

    This is such a tragic. story. More tragic; it took this many years for the story to be told.

  358. @Ron Unz

    Now that you have raised the possibility that it was LBJ seeking a Tonkin Gulf incident who was behind the attack (and BTW I would rate that as an evil well beyond anything you attribute to FDR judge by motivation) can we expect to see a focus on the loose ends to be tied up?

    What do you think they are? I would aim at

    1. Signals and messages which show why, how and when the USAF was put on alertt to attack the USSR

    2. Demonstration of the kind and detail of amendments to records which would have been necessary to enable Johnson to pretend ignorance of the attack on the Liberty which had already begun and been reported to DC when his Cabinet (or whatever) met. I am willing to assume that he would have been informed immediately. But so would Macnamara so that needs follow up too.

    3.Generally everything touching on what Johnson was being told, was saying to others etc that morning

    4. How come it was even attempted to have Liberty leave the danger zone? Who gave the order and who knew about it? It seems unlikely that such tactical matters would be routinely passed by the WH for approval.

    Much more than I have the energy to think through right now. .

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  359. Angiekens says:
    @Stones

    The whole official story is lies, has always been lies.
    The Israelis intentionally targeted the Liberty. Nothing that happened that day was an accident. Anyone without blinders or not Jewish can see that.
    I am not even sure who to ask, but someone help us all.

  360. Octavia says:

    The USS Liberty was a story I tried to pass on to my parents in the mid-90s. My dad who was in the Navy during the Korean War went ballistic. He and my mother were not practicing Christians, but were worshippers of Israel. They could never accept the cognitive dissonance the tale gave them and it somehow caused friction for years in our relationship, especially after 9/11. That’s when(the 90s) I began to feel American minds being subverted by pervasive Israel hero worship. Remember all those Hollywood movies? Scofield Bible? The men were betrayed by the US then and ever after. The odds were against them and they fought back with everything they had. At least one of the Liberty crew spoke Hebrew and they heard the Israeli pilots questioning the attack. It was a spy ship after all, and the crew has always known exactly who attacked that day.
    I remember also the, I believe, around 2005-07 Chicago Tribune article. The Tribune was being sold and it’s last editor retiring with it. Before he turned off the last light, he released as a 6 page, front page article he had waited decades to publish telling the story of the USS Liberty crew. Some say the US just forgave Israel, but on January 25, 1968 as the Israeli’s were taking delivery from Briton of the Dakar, a refurbished submarine, it sank in mysterious circumstances between Crete and Cyprus on it’s was to Haifa. One always wonders things when bad luck strikes.

  361. @Stones

    The hotel pimp in San Bernardino Calif. story, sure as hell fits the guys whole personality. Thank you on the new. for myself, information about this scum bag..

  362. @Joel N.

    Yes, but now Ron himself has opened up a completely new (to most of us) possible version. If it is right it is hardly surprising that the earlier version which put the blame entirely on Israel still left doubt because none of the suggested motives seemed wholly adequate. If Johnson was as evil as Ron supposes his political motive might be adequate but many details still need to be nailed down.

    What was his line of communication to the Israelis? Who were his collaborators? What orders were given to the 5th Fleet pilots? What reports were received from the US submarine that was present for the attack? (Did that submarine help pick up sailors from the Liberty?).

  363. S. L. says:

    Odd that you condemn the entire nation of Israel and its existence but only a segment of senior American politicos.
    The antisemitism is obvious.

    • Replies: @W
  364. I doubt whether even one American in a hundred has ever heard of it.”
    I actually doubt 1 in one thousand has ever heard of it. I only heard about it when I stopped watching anything spewed out by the MSM and started looking at alternative media sites.

    The same goes for the Holomodor. Ask your average American (or Westerner) what this was and it will draw blank faces. When I asked my college-aged son did he know what it was he replied “Is it something to do with Harry Potter?”

    It matters not what comes to light and how many people know about these travesties – nothing will ever happen to the perpetrators. Just look at the Covid B.S. going on right now. Years from now they will name the names of the villains responsible for this but again – nothing will happen.

    • Replies: @turtle
  365. geokat62 says:

    The Knesset West is too busy handing out goodies to Apartheid Israel to bother investigating what happened over 50 years ago…

    Telegram comment posted by IHR:

    “Israel is popular in the US Congress. During just about 125 days in session, the houses of Congress managed to entertain more than 70 new pieces of legislation pandering to Israel.”

    https://t.co/JvmcuGwaON

    https://t.me/instituteforhistoricalreview/149

    • Replies: @mulga mumblebrain
  366. Ron Unz says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Now that you have raised the possibility that it was LBJ seeking a Tonkin Gulf incident who was behind the attack (and BTW I would rate that as an evil well beyond anything you attribute to FDR judge by motivation) can we expect to see a focus on the loose ends to be tied up?

    What do you think they are? I would aim at…Much more than I have the energy to think through right now.

    You have an exceptionally unrealistic view of matters. The likelihood that I could uncover any new information about the event is absolutely nil, even if I made a major effort which I certainly won’t.

    The Liberty incident occurred almost 55 years ago, and everyone having inside information is dead, in many cases for decades. Meanwhile, many dozens of individuals have spent the last half century ferreting out whatever information might possibly be obtained.

    Some of it is quite difficult to get. For example, a few years after the Liberty attack, Thomas Moorer served as Chairman of our Joint Chiefs of Staff, America’s highest-ranking military officer, and he complained that he had had absolutely no luck obtaining some of the crucial information he sought. Why would I be successful when he wasn’t? Perhaps various additional documents will eventually be declassified at some point in the future, but perhaps not.

    After I discovered the very important Hounam book a month ago, published 18 years ago but previously unknown to me, all I did was to sit down and read or reread all the relevant Liberty books, totaling perhaps 800,000 words, then try to analyze and synthesize the important into my long summary article. I think my analysis is reasonable and probably correct, but it’s built on the primary research conducted by others.

    Since you are so greatly enamored with video documentaries, I should strongly suggest that you watch this 5 hour series that came out last year, which does an outstanding job of summarizing the available information:

    https://www.sacrificingliberty.com/

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Wizard of Oz
  367. Ron Unz says:

    Incidentally, I think any objective reading of the evidence presented in my Liberty article significantly increases the likelihood that my analysis of the 9/11 attacks is also correct:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/seeking-9-11-truth-after-twenty-years/

    After all, from the very first moment and for more than a half-century, there existed absolutely overwhelming evidence the Israeli military had deliberately attacked an American ship, killing or wounding more than 200 American servicemen. Yet it was so totally covered up by the American media and government that almost no Americans ever heard about it.

    This sort of massive, overwhelmingly-effective cover-up seems very similar to what happened after 9/11 regarding the obvious evidence of Israeli involvement, notably including the 200 Mossad agents arrested by the FBI, but eventually released under political pressure.

    Moreover, Israel’s total success in covering up the Liberty obviously would have made Israeli leaders increasingly bold in future undertakings, quite possibly including plans to assassinate President George H.W. Bush in 1991. When countries or individuals are not punished for their misdeeds, such misdeeds may grow increasingly brazen and serious.

    • Agree: Rurik, Avery
    • Replies: @Zachary Smith
  368. Dodgone says: • Website

    https://chuckbaldwinlive.com/Articles/tabid/109/ID/4142/My-Interview-With-A-USS-LIBERTY-Survivor.aspx

    CB: Ron, your story is a testament to God’s sovereign power and grace in your life and the lives of all of those crew members that survived. But I think it’s also a story that needs to be told in regard to what Israel did, and that there has been no accountability for what they did, which suggests that there is an evil nature in this that transcends politics.

    RK: Oh absolutely. I think I’ve said in a couple of interviews that I believe on June 8, 1967, we looked Satan in the eye and lived to tell about it.

    [MORE]

    Israel is he name of The Satan, therefore it must be contained and transformed into SEPHARAD.

    One afternoon i was in Thomar, he Templar’s Vatican, in Portugal drinking bagazzo with a muslim guy
    toasting Allah hu Ackbar every time we raised our glasses when a couple sat at our table uninvited.
    The man, slim, tanned, military kind and rather semitic ethnically, said he was german and his surname was Bauer, with he mistranslated as carpenter (it is farmer). I becamed suspicious, my mat, the muslim guy started talking german to the woman (he had been guestarbeiter) probing she was not german, (he told me later).

    At one point of he conversation and thinking this guy was a mossie I spoke my mind and told him he same thing: Israel is the name of the Satan and must be destroyed and fled he scene to a church, in my quite drunk thiking I associated zios with vampires that cannot stand holy places. I have quite a laught when i recall that afternoon.

    Green years, green light, green as the Ummiyah
    flag that flew over Al-Andalus, Sepharad and
    Hispania.So all Sheik Yerboutis, Sultans of Swing and Sheiks of Araby (there is a cover by the Beatles in the DECCA recordings) be ready…..

  369. turtle says:
    @Annony Mouse

    Ask the average American, “Who invented the concentration camp?” I am guessing 99% would answer, “Oh, Nazi Germany, of course, in order to persecute Jews.”

    Which is, of course, wrong on two counts.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  370. utu says:
    @Ron Unz

    After I discovered the very important Hounam book a month ago

    I have extensively browsed through the pdf copy of Peter Hounam I found here:

    http://www.narrowbandimaging.com/incoming/Operation%20Cyanide%20by%20Peter%20Hounam%20(2003).pdf

    and I was not very impressed by it. If Peter Hounan published his notes alone and transcripts of interviews he conducted with meta data on dates perhaps then one could a better image what the data set he worked on is pointing to. If he was a serious researcher he would discuss the origin of “Operation Cyanide” phrase. Where did he hear of it first? It is very hard to figure out where did the phrase come from in the text of the book. It seems that not a single person he interview has a recollection if they ever heard it. There are many insinuations and jumping to conclusions. Like for example that the captain of USS Liberty was informed of special mission and was told to expect to be attacked and strafed. Or that the envelope one officer handed to the captain must have been the Operation Cyanide.

    And one gets impression that Israeli officials he interviewed come across as more open and honest than American officials. Israelis did not want to cross Suez and go to Cairo and change regime of Nasser but it was Americans who were behind the attempt of escalations and who were egging Israel on. All what Israel wanted was to enlarge its territory and all it wanted form the US was to protect it from potential Soviet retaliation.

    Then there are those bizarre cases of veterans who knew but would not tell, who had documents but would not show and who eventually destroyed the documents before their death.

    As I wrote before seeing the book I am still very skeptical of the nuclear angle and strongly suspect that the nuclear narrative was injected into to muddle the water, diffuse the responsibility and the focus.

    • Thanks: Wizard of Oz
    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  371. @Ron Unz

    Moreover, Israel’s total success in covering up the Liberty obviously would have made Israeli leaders increasingly bold in future undertakings, quite possibly including plans to assassinate President George H.W. Bush in 1991.

    Amen to that.

    Suppose, just suppose, that the Supreme Court didn’t install GWB in the White House in 2000. President Albert Arnold Gore Jr. would have either destroyed Iraq for the Apartheid state, or that event would have happened shortly after his unfortunate demise by President Joseph Isadore Lieberman. No matter what happened, the shithole state was going to have its way.

    When countries or individuals are not punished for their misdeeds, such misdeeds may grow increasingly brazen and serious.

    Yes.

  372. @geokat62

    The whores in Congress are exceptionally enthusiastic about their work, too. Or else.

  373. @L.K

    The Katyn documents were either authentic, or fabricated for propaganda purposes, ie to admit the truth, and attempt a rapprochement of some sort with the clerico-fascist regime in Poland. I am not saying that ALL the documents from the ‘Soviet Archives’ were faked-just the ones that served US and Western propaganda purposes. Like your swill about the ‘so-called’ Great Patriotic War, which reveals who you are, approximately. Ukronazi? Polish or Baltic fascist? Some other detritus?

    • Replies: @Alden
  374. @Wizard of Oz

    And Israel can be hit by missiles with ranges of hundreds of miles, so the ENTIRE Near East must become Eretz Yisrael, eh Moshe. You’re even lower than I realised. Who is this ‘distinguished Australian Jewish journalist’ (the mere description evokes mirth and nausea)? Greg Sheridan? Sharri Markson? Isi Lebler? Michael Danby?

    • Agree: Ann Nonny Mouse
    • Thanks: Alden
    • Troll: Wizard of Oz
  375. @ImaBotKnot

    https://mfa.gov.il/MFA/ForeignPolicy/MFADocuments/Yearbook1/Pages/6%20Statement%20by%20President%20Johnson-%2023%20May%201967.aspx

    Statement by President Johnson, 23 May 1967:

    Following the reimposition of the naval blockade on the Straits of Tiran, President Johnson issued, a statement terming the blockade illegal, and called for restraint. He reiterated that the right of free and innocent passage in the international waterway was a vital interest of the international community.
    I have been in close and very frequent contact – and will be in the hours and days ahead – with our able Ambassador, Mr. Goldberg, at the United Nations, where we are now pursuing the matter with great vigor, and we hope that the Security Council can and will act effectively.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ambassadors_of_the_United_States_to_the_United_Nations

    Click on Arthur Goldberg, then look at the UN resolutions.

    Also interesting look at the UN ambassadors about the time of 9/11.

    Also look at G H W Bush as UN ambassador during the Vietnam war

    Search Engine “Arthur Krim” “Arthur Goldberg”

    https://www.nysun.com/opinion/lbjs-secret-israel-tapes/78712/ – puff piece for Israel

    Instead, Johnson’s policies stemmed more from personal concerns — his friendship with leading Zionists (such as Abe Fortas, Abe Feinberg, and Arthur Krim), [ poster’s note and Jim Novy] his belief that America had a moral obligation to bolster Israeli security, and his conception of Israel as a frontier land much like his home state of Texas. His personal concerns led him to intervene when he felt that the State or Defense Departments had insufficiently appreciated Israel’s diplomatic or military needs

    Krim finance chair of Democrat Party kinda like Eisenberg being the Finance chair of the Republican National Committee https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_Eisenberg

    Hint at the top the Republicans and Democrats work to advance the same agendas.

    Picture of Krim wife President John F. Kennedy stands with organizers of a Democratic Party fund-raising dinner and birthday salute in his honor at Madison Square Garden. Left to right: Dr. Mathilde Krim; President Kennedy; co-chairmen of President Kennedy’s birthday salute (held at Madison Square Garden earlier in the evening), Anna M. Rosenberg and Arthur B. Krim. Krim residence, New York City, New York.

    https://www.jfklibrary.org/asset-viewer/archives/JFKWHP/1962/Month%2005/Day%2019/JFKWHP-1962-05-19-C

    also pictured Johnson and Monroe
    https://mondoweiss.net/2018/01/secret-life-mathilde/ krim and johnson

    • Thanks: Alden
    • Replies: @ImaBotKnot
  376. @turtle

    Yo have in mind Native Reserves in the America’s?

    • Replies: @turtle
  377. Ron Unz says:
    @utu

    If he was a serious researcher he would discuss the origin of “Operation Cyanide” phrase. Where did he hear of it first? It is very hard to figure out where did the phrase come from in the text of the book.

    That’s entirely incorrect, since it’s explicitly discussed in detail on pp. 113-114 of the book and footnoted. “Operation Cyanide” refers to a some special classified project involving both the Liberty and the submarine that had rendezvoused with it (as discussed in Ennes’ original 1979 book). Crewman Chuck Rowley had been briefed on the project and provided some of the information to Ennes, who was later interviewed by Hounam. The exact nature of the secret project isn’t clear, but Hounam provides some plausible speculation, and he chose to use the name as the title of his book, just as I had stated in my article.

    If Peter Hounan published his notes alone and transcripts of interviews he conducted with meta data on dates perhaps then one could a better image what the data set he worked on is pointing to.

    You’re being completely unreasonable. Maybe Hounam just invented most of his detailed interviews, but I really doubt that. For example, Acting Ambassador Nes in Cairo was taped and apparently later made the same claims in an oral history. Several of the crewmen interviewed also say the same thing in the video documentaries I had suggested you watch—they seemed reasonably credible to me. Maybe they were all confused or wrong or lying, but I do think they made those statements to Hounam. That SAC pilot certainly did since he was later shocked to discover the chronological discrepancy his written testimony revealed.

    Look, Hounam spent 30 years as a British MSM journalist, including leader of the London Sunday Times investigative team, breaking some huge international stories. To me, that strongly suggests he didn’t just invent the entire contents of his book and his many dozens of interviews. Anyway, those interviews were conducted under the auspices of the BBC, and many of them later shown on on-camera in the BBC documentary. Remember, almost none of his sources are “anonymous” unlike those in so many widely-accepted American books of the last few decades.

    Your complaints remind me a lot of when you repeatedly suggested all my Hispanic Crime numbers were fabricated or otherwise severely distorted based upon zero evidence, and you never apologized after you turned out to be entirely incorrect.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Wizard of Oz
  378. Isn’t it interesting how the elite really feel about the Americans that protect the country. ” Lyndon Johnson is not going to war, or embarrass an ally, over a FEW SAILORS.”

    You see, the treasonous attitude started a long time ago.

  379. utu says:
    @Ron Unz

    Your complaints remind me a lot of when you repeatedly suggested all my Hispanic Crime numbers were fabricated or otherwise severely distorted based upon zero evidence, and you never apologized after you turned out to be entirely incorrect

    I do not think I have ever suggested that your numbers were fabricated but indeed initially I did challenge your results because I was not aware that age effect could be that big. Using data from other sources (California iirc) I concluded that you were mostly correct that age corrected crime rates for Hispanics are only slightly higher than for Whites. So the general message of your article was correct however I would also point out that in real life people do not experience age corrected crimes but the absolute number of crimes of Hispanic population that happens to be much younger.

    I strongly criticized one aspect of your methodology where you calculated correlations between crime rate and ethnic percentage across the set of cities and used the result to drive the point that Whites and Hispanics are similar crime-wise while the correlations did not contain information on the absolute crime rates and the similarity of White and Hispanic correlation curves across time most certainly was the artifact of data being overwhelmed by dominant Black criminality. In other words the correlation curves for Whites and Hispanics are in the noise region of negative correlations. But you keep showing the same correlation plots over and over again while knowing perfectly well it is just a “gestalt” gimmick and not a valid mathematical/empirical argument.

  380. @ImaBotKnot

    Down load this

    https://warontherocks.com/2017/06/the-six-day-war-and-the-nuclear-coup-that-never-was/

    Amazingly, the Samson operation was never discussed at the cabinet level. It remained hidden from sight, as the ministers discussed and approved only a conventional attack on Egypt. On the morning of June 5, 1967, the first day of the Six Day War, the Israeli Air Force wiped out Egypt’s air force. Yaacov maintains that exactly at that time, all the men involved in Operation Samson were in a state of high readiness. However, as soon as it became known that Egypt was about to face certain defeat, Samson was canceled. All these perpetrations were for naught. Years later, Tzur took great care to distance himself from the whole affair. He claimed that he had been involved merely in examining the feasibility of such an operation, not in actually planning it.

    Notice in the article that Moshe Dayan wanted to use the nuclear bomb.

    OK the 6 Day war – on June 5 the first day of the war the Egyptian Air Force was wiped out, Egypt could not win from Day 1. Fighting continues on the Golan Heights ( with Syria ) and for parts of Jerusalem. June 5,6, 7, then June 8 the attack by Israel on the USS Liberty…. Not necessary if Egypt could not win. But maybe Hawks like Dayan wanted an excuse to Sampson option and use a nuclear bomb? Just Asking.

    Fast forward and who could be accused of being in on Israel’s mini-tactical Nuclear 9/11 bombing of the trade centers using low radiation Special Atomic Demolition Munitions?

    Uzi Dayan Head of Israel National Security Council, nephew of Moshe Dayan, Uzi married to the daughter of an Israeli nuclear physicist

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Council_(Israel)

    • Replies: @ImaBotKnot
  381. turtle says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Nope.

    Count 1: (perpetrators)
    Our ever virtuous British allies in South Africa, Second Boer War.

    Brought to you by the ever virtuous Lord Kitchener, and cheerleaders such as Winston S(hit) “Gas the Natives” Churchill, who were no doubt “taking up the White Man’s burden.” Except the Boers were transplanted Europeans. Not Jewish, though, (or English) so their lives did not matter, then or now.

    Count 2: (initial victims)
    Political prisoners in the Third German Reich. REF: Dachau
    NSDAP thugs & criminals initial objectives were to consolidate power by “dealing with” their political enemies.
    cf Night of the Long Knives
    “War against the Jews” (the “Final Solution”) came much later.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  382. @Ron Unz

    You have an exceptionally unrealistic view of matters. The likelihood that I could uncover any new information about the event is absolutely nil

    No, as part of a conversation in which I am at least as motivated as you to achieve efficient reward for effort, I responded to your opening up an alternative version of the Liberty scandal which, instead of seeming to have only a bit of a puzzle about motive left over, opens up many different questions of fact. Given that you had overlooked Hounam’s book for so long you might well find that his alternative version hadn’t even been the subject of the intensive interest of conspiracy theorists that you point to. That possibility apart, I was merely trying to put some order and efficiency into the intellectual processes, the questions asked and points to remain alert for in the wider field of possibly relevant facts now opened up.

    Moreover, I would be less inclined to spend 4 hours on viewing video than a few minutes firing off FOIA requests for small and rare rewards, that you could easily set yourself up to do with little more than a typed specification and a couple of clicks.

    But yes, I suppose your point about Mossad/Israel being emboldened that your next comment made is equally or even better supported by the alternative, LBJ centred, hypothesis. To know that they could prove that the attempted destruction of the Liberty was at the request of POTUS would be to have won the jackpot.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  383. @turtle

    I think you are too modest about the intellectual foundation provide by all those colonialists who gathered indigenous people together including George Augustus Robinson, Protector of Tasmsnian Aborigines (now extinct as full bloods), the Canadians who ended up eliminating the Berthuks of Newfoundland and lots of worthy concentrators of Native Americans. Paradoxically the Germans in Namibia c. 1905 were too clever to put their genocide victims into camps. They would have felt some obligation then to provide food and water.

  384. @Ron Unz

    Fair enough. But unless you are content that your excellent article is enough because, either way, it convicts Israel, why not offer \$5000 incentive to a Stanford graduate student to do a Master’s thesis on following up the factual correlates of the Hounam thesis?

    • Replies: @Alden
  385. @Wizard of Oz

    More questions for which answers could be critical.

    The planes took off to attack Egypt without nuclear weapons despite the elaborate circumstantial evidence propounded. So, what the hell could so few aircraft do *without* nuclear weapons? And what could they do *with nuclear weapons*. Surely not another Hiroshima!. Just not on to devastate Cairo.
    So, it would have had to be the remnant of Soviet aircraft that the Israelis hadn’t destroyed. Hmm, let’s have a look at the intelligence and strategic assessments which would have covered such circumstances.

    If the attack was first thought/feared to be by the Soviet Union, still, where are the nukes headed for?

  386. @L.K

    Who is the fool who cannot even understand the English language enough to understand that part factual, part speculative with reason, considerations are being put forward which allow for genuine differences of emphasis amongst sophisticated Israelis and their sympathisers on what constituted adequate “survival”, and what threatened it given different subjective ideas of the relevant time span.

    • Replies: @Bert
  387. W says:
    @S. L.

    Odd that you condemn the entire nation of Israel and its existence but only a segment of senior American politicos.
    The antisemitism is obvious.

    And welcomed

  388. @ImaBotKnot

    I Guarded Israel’s First Nuclear Device, Former Israeli Reveals in U.S. Testimony
    Elie Geisler says he was asked during the Six Day War to guard a secret base in central Israel that held the device. He described a clash with Col. Yitzhak Yaakov, who demanded control of the base and threatened to break into it by force

    https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.premium-former-israeli-in-u-s-interview-i-guarded-nuclear-device-during-six-day-war-1.7186402

    Kinda supports theory that Dayan wanted to go nuclear????

    • Thanks: Alden
    • Replies: @Patrick McNally
  389. @ImaBotKnot

    Since different hypotheses have been flung around here I think it helps to distinguish some of them. The suggestion that Dayan and some other Israeli leaders may have wanted to go over the brink with nuclear weapons is plausible. But a different suggestion has occasionally been made that LBJ supposedly thought that he might increase his own reelection prospects by going nuclear. The latter idea can be discounted. If Dayan had actually used nuclear weapons then the result would have been a monumental headache for LBJ with no political benefits. That doesn’t mean that Dayan wouldn’t do it. But LBJ would certainly have sunk much further in the eyes of the public.

    From the point of domestic politics and LBJ, the short Six-Day War was the optimal scenario. That war was kind of buried away because of Vietnam, while LBJ just had to do some quiet cover-ups on the side. If the more reckless Israeli leaders had gotten there way then this would have created a much bigger stink for LBJ than even Vietnam did.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  390. @Patrick McNally

    And, as you may have seen, I think one of the puzzles to sott out arises from zeroing in on what was actually happening with the 6th Fleet planes.

    If a couple of planes (anyway a small number) took off with
    nukes what the hell were they heading for? Bombing Cairo, as for Hiroshima would have been not on.

    The Soviet aircraft supporting Egypt had already been destroyed.

    But if there were no nuclear weapons involved what sort of attack on Egypt could be made with a few high explosive bombs?

    If lies were told about nukes, why?

    What assessments were made of the consequences of Soviet forces being attacked. Still FOIA proof?

    If there really was an alerting of bombers ready to attack the USSR then the reports which gave rise to that, and the timing are absolutely critical.

  391. @turtle

    Only the US can F* with other people, correct? Certainly the apparatus of the state from the US has been deployed to murder millions of others on their own soil, toppling sovereign governments of other people, and in a number of cases, literally poisoning the land, be it with depleted uranium, Agent Orange or millions of unexploded munitions in Laos.
    The Jewish Supremacist state seems to use the British and US empires as models, which makes sense given the role both imperial abominations had, and continue to have, in creating and maintaining the Jewish Supremacist colonial atrocity.

    Murder Incorporated is a much more concise title for the US.

  392. @Tdstype2

    Is the answer “because the US is a state entity created to do the bidding of genocidal psychopaths, and has existed as such since it’s inception”?

  393. @Ann Nonny Mouse

    You don’t know whether or not LBJ is alive or not? Priceless!

    • Replies: @Ann Nonny Mouse
  394. Some Background to Six Day War

    https://medium.com/war-is-boring/during-the-six-day-war-u-s-fliers-suddenly-found-themselves-in-hostile-lands-69045a0722f7

    At Wheelus in Libya, the situation threatened to spiral out of control. A mob had formed outside the gates.

    The Air Force ordered the 7272nd Training Wing and its nearly 50 F-100 Super Sabre fighter jets to stay put. The flying branch did move a RB-47E spy plane to Torrejon air base in Spain. More aircraft eventually left for Europe and other destinations.

    I agree I do not think the US wanted to go Nuclear in the Six Day War. Maybe conventional, but with all the problems with Vietnam, Johnson and such probably just wanted a good reason like if the Liberty False Flag had been successfully covered up to stand by Israel and endorse anything Israel did. But US forces might have got spooked by Russian involvement and put some nukes on stand-by. Whereas Dayan seemed to want to get the Israeli nuke/ ? 3 nukes under his control for possible use.

    Note – Saudi Arabia and Jordan were probably just play fighting against Israel in the 6 Day war.

    Note – As far as intercepted crypto

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/national-security/cia-crypto-encryption-machines-espionage/

    ? The CIA/NSA/BND had access to most everything, but that Illuminati forces really had control of this info and used it to play all countries of the world, even in 1967?

    https://www.historynet.com/mcdonnell-f-4-phantom-essential-aircraft-in-the-air-warfare-in-the-middle-east.htm

    Also remember Israel really wanted those Phantom jets.

  395. @Ron Unz

    A big thank you for continuing writing the American Pravda series. I feel like every new American Pravda article is a christmas present nowadays, to be read slowly over a few days to ponder all the details and weigh the possibilities and also to savor the moment and the revelations one is about to be exposed to.

    After having perused the comments summarily one thing I don’t understand is why you are getting so much criticism on this very credible sourced piece.

    Of course a planned nuclear attack is bound to be a controversial subject but I would put down the probability of this plot being a fact as more likely than not after reading some texts on the attack on the USS liberty, watching Dead in the Water previously and now getting the full, complete story in your, as usual, extremely thouroughly researched and deeply revealing article.

    I had a period when I read mainstream biographies by todays respected scholars of all the US presidents from Eisenhower to Ford to better understand the cold war which has been an interest of mine since long back and I got the absolute impression that LBJ was the most sleazy, immoral, corrupt, dishonest president without any conscience in his quest for power of the bunch, without comparison.

    One thing that stuck with me as a particular sleazy, self-serving and petty kind of corruption was how he used his influence while a senator to have the FCC award a company of his rights to send television in Texas, which he got quite wealthy off. Another thing that stuck with me was that he did almost exactly the same thing that Nixon did and was almost impeached for, ie using the CIA to spy on his political opposition. He was also involved in shutting down Senator McCarthy and his Un-American Affairs Committee as ranking democratic senator – seemingly not because he thought McCarthy was wrong but because McCarthy was getting too politically powerful and he made remarks that in retrospect I wonder if they were meant to say that he wanted to shield the jewish community from the unwelcome attention it was getting from senator McCarthy – and we now know McCarthy was in fact on the trail of a real semi-coordinated communist infiltration, often done by jewish individuals, of among other institutions Hollywood and the Federal government.

    If there is one US president of the cold war I might imagine setting up an attack on a US navy ship by the Jewish state as a pretext to using nuclear weapons to bomb an Egyptian airbase were Soviet bombers were stationed to appear to show resolve to secure reelection it is precisely LBJ.

    This was also well into the 60s, the decade when the jewish elite did practically replace the WASP elite of the US and jewish influence became impossible to handle without extreme concessions by even presidents of the US.
    This is also perfectly in line with how Israel has acted on several other occasions, wihout any regard for international norms and the laws of the countries of goyim.
    It’s absurd that Jonathan Pollard is pardoned by Trump, that buffoon, and given a hero’s welcome in Isreal while saying that he thinks every jew should spy on the US (Or was it the disporas respective host countries?) and still the parts of the elite of the US that are gentiles are endlessly bleating “Israel is our gretest ally”.

    Ever since I read your articles on the Kennedy Assasination and your article on the Mossad and in combination with what I know about LBJ I have always had the suspicion that LBJ might very well have been involved in the assassination with Israel doing the dirty work and LBJ becoming in effect indebted to Israel afterwards, but that’s just speculation although not, in my estimation, speculation in the realm of the crazy and deranged.

    Thank you for a tremendous piece!

    PS I shall now get to reading your complete series containing your complete argued case for the Sars-Cov-2 pandemic as biowarfare gone wrong.
    I however noted just yesterday that the NIH – which I don’t believe you’ll argue is the agency responsible for the biowarfare attack – has now publicly admitted that it funded gain-of-function research on corona viruses at the Wuhan Level 4 biosafety lab, while you put forward as an example of what I presume was one of your strongest arguments a comment by an employee at the lab who denied that such reasearch had ever taken place there – that always struck me as a middle manager being told what to say from the higher ups from what I’ve read on the origin of the Sars-Cov-2 virus in other places.
    Nevertheless it will be an interesting investigation since your opinion is in fact always worth taking seriously and is not to be summarily discarded, which I admit i was guilty of.
    I will write to say if I have been persuaded to change my opinion of the chance of the the pandemic being biowarfare gone bad from only 10 %. I’ll also flesh out my original argument of why I felt I didn’t have to read your whole series on this topic to assign a low probability of it being true.

    PPS. I apologize for sometimes making excessive spelling mistakes in my comments. Ever since my bout of COVID I have started making spelling errors or wwriting errors, never having done so in my life before, and I also have to read a text several times to catch most of them and often a few slips through. It’s all very strange.

    • Thanks: Alden
    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  396. Ron Unz says:
    @The Ghost Of Emanuel Swedenborg

    Thanks for the very kind words, and I’ll look forward to your perspective once you’ve read and considered my Covid articles.

    I however noted just yesterday that the NIH – which I don’t believe you’ll argue is the agency responsible for the biowarfare attack – has now publicly admitted that it funded gain-of-function research on corona viruses at the Wuhan Level 4 biosafety lab, while you put forward as an example of what I presume was one of your strongest arguments a comment by an employee at the lab who denied that such reasearch had ever taken place there

    Actually, that’s not correct. Everyone has known that the Wuhan lab was conducting Gain-of-Function research on coronaviruses since early 2020, and their research was substantially funded by the US government. For example, here’s one of the earliest stories from April 2020:

    https://www.newsweek.com/controversial-wuhan-lab-experiments-that-may-have-started-coronavirus-pandemic-1500503

    People are making a big deal about this now mostly because they weren’t paying any attention back then. But there’s ZERO evidence that there was a lab-leak or that Covid was developed there, and strong eyewitness testimony to the contrary.

    However, this Covid discussion should obviously be continued on a different thread, such as this one:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/is-the-tide-finally-turning-on-covid-as-an-american-biowarfare-attack/

  397. @rufus clyde

    Hmm. If it’s priceless you couldn’t pay, I guess.

    Okay, I didn’t google his dob, won’t bother, guessing. Or dod.

    A politician say 40 yo in 1967, lemme see, 90 in 2017, 94 in 2021.

    And I said: if.

  398. RodW says:

    Isn’t about time Mr Unz consider the possibility that LBJ was a crypto Jew?

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @Ron Unz
  399. Bert says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    on what constituted adequate “survival”

    Then you would allow the Euro-Americans the same latitude in dealing with Jewish control of the country their ancestors founded. Glad to hear that.

    • Thanks: Wizard of Oz
  400. @RodW

    Presuming you are not referring to Conversos and Marranos it would be a help probably to specify what would constitute crypto Judaism in mid 20th century Texas. At least some rituals conducted privately would appear to be a minimum requirement. Agreed? And what can you point to as suggesting Ron should take the trouble to look and might well find something?

    • Agree: Ann Nonny Mouse
  401. Excellent article, Ron Unz. I attended the 2007 memorial in DC and never knew about what happened to Mr. Thompson. Very interesting.

    Thank you for writing this piece..

  402. Ron Unz says:
    @RodW

    Isn’t about time Mr Unz consider the possibility that LBJ was a crypto Jew?

    Frankly, I think there’s zero evidence of that.

    I was just recently reading a very detailed book about LBJ by an (extremely hostile) conspiracy-researcher who claimed that one of LBJ’s great-grandparents (or maybe great-great-grandparents) was probably Jewish. Offhand, that’s certainly possible and I didn’t bother looking into his sources. Similarly, I think I’ve similarly seen claims that FDR might have been 1/16th Jewish by ancestry.

    But I really wouldn’t consider that a reasonable standard of “being Jewish.” Indeed, based upon that degree of ancestry, I’d suspect that 15-20% of the entire white American population is currently Jewish. I even think that individuals with 1/16th Jewish ancestry might have been acceptable to the Nazi SS.

    I feel these sorts of foolish arguments may even be promoted by “saboteurs” seeking to discredit far more important and substantive arguments.

    • Agree: Wizard of Oz
  403. gregor says:

    A big unresolved question I’ve always had about the attack was about the ultimate game plan. A false flag attack of this nature would be incredibly reckless as the Israelis would essentially be banking on a cover-up. But if Johnson was complicit then a cover-up was assured beforehand and the risk to Israel would be substantially reduced.

    Although Ron didn’t get into the JFK assassination here, there is a very natural connection in that if Johnson was complicit with Israel in one of these events, it makes it much more likely he was complicit in the other as well.

  404. RodW says:
    @Ron Unz

    Exhibit A would be Johnson’s involvement in the USS Liberty affair. Why would he behave as he did if he were a ‘real’ Texan? Was he being blackmailed? Given all his other efforts on behalf of Jews, that’s unlikely.

    https://nationalvanguard.org/2017/05/jewish-site-claims-lbj-was-a-jew/

    Exhibit B would be his hatred of the Catholic JFK and the evidence that he was involved in JFK’s murder.

    Exhibit C would be Johnson’s remarkably Jewish looking wife. LBJ also had a mother and sister called Rebekah — an odd choice of name for nice Christian girls. That ‘haitch’ at the end…

    Exhibit D, Johnson’s civil rights legislation which set the course for a non-white majority US.

    Exhibit E, the multi-volume biography by the Jew, Robert Caro.

    None of these taken alone are conclusive, but taken together, they suggest an unusual partisanship that is hard to explain without kinship.

    • Replies: @Alden
  405. Lysias says:
    @Ron Unz

    The claim is not just about one of LBJ’s great grandparents being Jewish. The claim is that his mother was Jewish, the offspring of two Jewish parents. If true, this would not just make him halakhically Jewish, it would explain an emotional attachment to Jews.

    • Replies: @lysias
    , @Patrick McNally
  406. lysias says:
    @Lysias

    I have to correct that. The claim is that LBJ’s mother, Rebekah Baines Johnson, was a Jew because she was the offspring of a Jewish mother, Ruth Ament Huffman Baines, who was herself the offspring of two Jewish parents, John S. Huffman and Mary Elizabeth Perrin.

    https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/bet-the-ranch/

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @Truth Vigilante
  407. Alden says:
    @RodW

    Mrs Johnson was mostly Spanish with an Anglo surname like many Texans. Like many Jews, she looked very Mediterranean.

    Jewish or real Protestants, a despicable family. I have no opinion on the Who Killed Kennedy issue. But of all the possible killers of Kennedy Johnson benefitted more than any other possible conspirator. And immediately. 12/30 pm Vice President 30 minutes later president And Johnson Humphrey’s commie Jew agenda of 1964 civil rights for all but Whites, 1965 unlimited non White immigration and 1968 affirmative action laws..

    • Replies: @geokat62
  408. Alden says:
    @Oscar Peterson

    I’ve read 3 Liberty books and several articles all by survivors or the result of author’s interviews with survivors.

    The Israeli planes had Israeli markings. The crew on the Liberty saw those Israeli markings. Many planes flew so close to the ship the Liberty crew could the faces of the Israeli pilots. The crew of the Liberty saw the Israeli insignia on the planes.

    What’s your point? Talmudic reasoning. Twist the conversation from the true facts that Israeli planes murdered and wounded American sailors on the Liberty. To let’s discuss how many Liberty sailors saw Israeli insignia on the planes and other distractions

  409. Alden says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    The Hounam interviews and articles are sufficient in and of themselves. They are original documents. No need for a master’s thesis distorting, analyzing and lying about the original documents.

    You should just come right out and claim Israel
    didn’t attack the Liberty and murder and injure 170 American sailors. Instead of putzing about with inane and asinine comments

  410. Ron Unz says:
    @lysias

    The claim is that LBJ’s mother, Rebekah Baines Johnson, was a Jew because she was the offspring of a Jewish mother, Ruth Ament Huffman Baines, who was herself the offspring of two Jewish parents, John S. Huffman and Mary Elizabeth Perrin.

    You’re entirely correct. That was the same story presented in my source, which claimed that two of LBJ’s great-grandparents had been Jewish, but I’d misremembered as just one.

    However, I also remember I was pretty doubtful about the evidence. That small Jewish weekly newspaper claimed that they’d immigrated to America from Germany in the mid-18th century:

    The facts indicate that both of Lyndon Johnson’s great-grandparents, on the maternal side, were Jewish. These were the grandparents of Lyndon’s mother, Rebecca Baines. Their names were John S. Huffman and Mary Elizabeth Perrin. John Huffman’s mother was Suzanne Ament, a common Jewish name. Perrin is also a common Jewish name.

    Offhand, none of the last names “Huffman”, “Perrin”, or “Ament” seem particularly Jewish to me, and browsing around a little on the Internet, tends to support my impression, although they probably can be Jewish. Moreover, I think first names like “John” and “Mary” were hardly common among Jews in the mid-18th century, and there doesn’t seem to be anything in their family activities or employment to suggest that they were Jewish. Also, nothing in the later generations of the family seemed to provide any hint of crypto-Jewish religious activities or behavior, such as distinct marriage patterns.

    Unless much more solid evidence is presented, I strongly suspect that the small Jewish newspaper tried to stake an ethnic claim to LBJ without any solid basis, as such publications often do.

    While it’s possible that LBJ may have been 1/8th Jewish on his maternal side, I’d need to see much stronger evidence to be persuaded.

    • Replies: @Truth Vigilante
    , @Clyde
  411. @Lysias

    LBJ’s aunt, Jessie Johnson Hatcher, was a Christadelphian. The Christadelphians were some of the original Christian Zionists. They taught that Jesus will return to Earth and establish God’s Kingdom starting in Israel. While it’s theoretically possible that Jessie Hatcher might have been a crypto-Jew, it’s just as plausible that she was won over to the Christadelphian teachings as such without any ethno-motives.

  412. @lysias

    Absolutely correct call from you Lysias on LBJ’s obvious Jewish lineage.

    As for Ron Unz’s Not-based-on-evidence assertion directed at those who are stating the obvious about LBJ’s background, ie:

    ‘I feel these sorts of foolish arguments may even be promoted by “saboteurs” seeking to discredit far more important and substantive arguments.’

    … you can make up your own mind as to why Ron is trying to deflect attention away from this fact by calling us ‘saboteurs’ with ‘foolish arguments’.

    As further proof of who LBJ is, let’s look at this photo comparison of separated-at-birth-twin-brothers:

    [MORE]

    https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fi254.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fhh119%2FRonPulliam%2FMeir-Johnson.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

    Yes, I did write twin BROTHERS.

    And pleeeease, I don’t want to hear those preposterous claims that Golda Meir was born with two X chromosomes.

    She is no more a woman than is Rachel Levine.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  413. @Ron Unz

    Ron writes:

    Offhand, none of the last names “Huffman”, “Perrin”, or “Ament” seem particularly Jewish to me …

    Well let’s look at LBJ’s name in full: Lyndon BAINES Johnson and the following article:

    https://www.hebrewsurnames.com/BAINES

    From the article:

    Baines Genealogy

    The vast majority of Argentine Jews are descended from immigrants who arrived from Europe. These Ashkenazic Jews migrated from small towns or shtetels of Poland, Lithuania, Russia, Germany, Romania or Ukraine, leaving behind most of their Jewish relatives. After two or three generations, those Jewish families lost track of their relatives, having been saved from the war, emigrated to other countries like USA, England or Australia.

    Do we need to say anymore ?

    LBJ’s forebears were obviously among the contingent that landed in North America.

  414. @Alden

    In relation to your remark directed at Lizard of Oz:

    You should just come right out and claim Israel
    didn’t attack the Liberty and murder and injure 170 American sailors

    you will have noticed if you’ve perused the archives that he’s been quite the apologist for Zio malfeasance here on UR.

    Just give him time and soon enough he’ll be coming out and making that exact assertion and that LBJ was the squeakiest clean, patriotic and committed to upholding his oath of office POTUS America ever had.

  415. @Alden

    Your lack of insight about people must have made for an unfortunate experience for some of your parolees. And you don’t even allow your cognitive abilities a fair chance or you could never have supposed I was an apologist for Israel, especially with respect to the Liberty. It is one of Ron’s undoubted hits on target. Can’t say bulls eye because he himself has now raised, with commendable candour, an alternative explanation.

    As a matter of mild interest are you saying everything Hounam’s book asserts is correct? If so, what is your version of who originated the plot to attack the Liberty? If not, how do you resolve the differences in the various versions? I say various because the Israeli motives are particularly unsettled.

    • Replies: @Alden
  416. geokat62 says:
    @Alden

    And immediately. 12/30 pm Vice President 30 minutes later president And Johnson Humphrey’s commie Jew agenda

    Ah, yes. The Great Society agenda. Better known as Tikkun olam, f*cking the world.

    • Replies: @Alden
  417. fnn says:

    I say various because the Israeli motives are particularly unsettled.

    Even you must know that everyone who could reveal the motives of Israel in attacking the Liberty is dead. I’m now going to put you on “ignore” and try to erase your worthless crap from my memory.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  418. geokat62 says:
    @Truth Vigilante

    As further proof of who LBJ is, let’s look at this photo comparison of separated-at-birth-twin brothers:

    • LOL: Alden
    • Replies: @Alden
    , @Alden
  419. @Ron Unz

    Mention of the US submarine, even if there wasn’t one there to witness the attack, raises again an early niggling doubt that struck me. How likely was it that a very high level Israeli like Dayan would count on
    (a) destruction of h the Liberty with no survivors, and so that no tell tale evidence would be found;
    (b) no submarine or aircraft around to observe the attack?

    No problem if the Israelis had something really incriminating on LBJ, perhaps.

    • Agree: Colin Wright
  420. Alden says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Houman’s book is original research and documents. Why hire some grad student to write about it? Why don’t you write a long review of the book? Make up inane asinine lies to refute Houman’s book.

    FYI ignorant moron. Master’s thesis es are supposed to be original research, not book reviews.

  421. @fnn

    You’ll have to handle the Ignore function better than you have managed the Reply – which you must have allowed your mental agitation to make you overlook.

    It is hard to credit the following with even mental agitation

    Even you must know that everyone who could reveal the motives of Israel in attacking the Liberty is dead

    .

    You must have ceased cerebration altogether to fail to see the absurdity of what you wrote. What do historians do for evidence? Due….

    Ron ought to provide a Button so that people like you who have certain problems can arrange to have anything you write held up for a few hours while you sober up or come down from your medicated high.

    • Replies: @Alden
  422. Alden says:
    @geokat62

    Golda looks a lot like commies Rosa Luxembourg and Emma? Goldman I remember posters of her as the Guiding Light of womankind to throw off the shackles of caring for homes children and husbands. The posters were cool though. A sign underneath her hideous face read: But can she type? Of course even in those days a woman who could type could always get a decently paid job.

    I shouldn’t be so nasty about her looks. I can’t help it. I’m an esthete. Born an esthete. Can’t stand ugliness. Really makes me very uncomfortable. Like a startle reflex.

    After Golda ,Buffalo Bella Abzug and Betty Friedan, no wonder the early Feminazis selected pretty Gloria Steinem as the face of feminism

    FYI MEN OF UNZ the entire feminazi movement was created by the men who ran the Ford Rockefeller ACLU and other Foundations funded and run by men at the time.

    Purpose: to increase the workforce by one third by forcing all the married women out of their homes and into the workplace.

    Method; the ghastly inflation that just happened to occur at the exact time the powers that be were propagandizing married women they had to go to work for the joy and pleasure of it. Reality was married women had to go to work to pay for 40 percent crease of necessities like water gas electricity phone insurance property taxes rents mortgages and to support the car that gets you to work.

    My friends and I used to read those articles about the joys of work and laugh. We knew it was propaganda by the capitalist pigs. I remember Carol paying her bills. She said what’s the difference being a slave to a husband or slave to house payments utility gas car payments visa ? At least with a husband you get consortium.

    It’s all over The minions of Satan won. And are moving forward without opposition.

  423. Alden says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Rob should ban you.

    Cerebration I can just see you. Thesaurus in hand searching for words you think are all intellectual and superior to impress us dumb American backwoods proletarians

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  424. Alden says:
    @geokat62

    At the beginning of his anti White career, in the late 194os Humphrey founded the Minnesota or Minneapolis branch of the NAACP. There were very few blacks in Minnesota at the time. That was how he became the darling of the black advocate liberals of the big city democrats.

    I went to college with a radical commie Jewish guy whose radical commie Jewish father had been an important Humphrey aide since Humphrey began his career. Very radical pro soviet even pro Lenin’s Trotsky’s Stalin’s massacres. Very favorable to the soviet take over of 11 Central European nations in 1946. That was justified because all those Central Europeans were pro Nazi fascists and anti semites. Humphrey was worse than FDR Johnson and Obama in my opinion. And he was guided from the late 1940s to Vice President by radical Jews.

    It was Humphrey who did most of the lobbying for the 3 anti White laws of Johnson. Cvil rights for all but Whites unlimited non White immigration and affirmative action. Or at least the Humphrey faction claimed Humphrey did most of the work to pass those laws.

  425. Alden says:
    @mulga mumblebrain

    So you’re a POS communist. How could Poland be clerico fascist when it was under German and communist occupation from 1939 to 1990?

    When the Germans swept through Poland they had names and addresses of Poles they wanted to eliminate. Elected and civil service government workers. Every Mayor city council
    and civil service administrator in Poland. Even railroad and postal workers. Of all the countries occupied by the Germans during WW2, Poland was the only one that had no native government workers. All those jobs were taken by the German occupiers

    Teachers too as the German plan was that Germans would be settled in Poland and no Pole would be educated past 4th grade. As for the clerics. In September and October the Germans arrested and imprisoned almost all the catholic priests in the German sector, 5,000 of them. The first executions at Auschwitz were those catholic priests.

    The Russian occupation of Eastern Poland was just a vicious as the German occupation. Especially for the catholic priests.

    You’re just a mouth piece for communist Jew propaganda aren’t you? That’s the commie Jew excuse for the destructive communist Jewish occupation of 11 European nations from 1946 to 1990. Every person in Central Europe was an evil pro Nazi fascist. And they deserved to be punished because they weren’t communist.

  426. @Alden

    I wouldn’t want you banned. I amnot even tempted to apply the Ignore button. You have an entertainment value all your own.

    Cerebration was not just the word I deliberately chose (without need of a thesaurus which I probably haven’t consulted for twenty years). It was the mot juste.

    Now tell me. Does your typing and not correcting “Rob” say more about your cerebral functioning or your manners? It is surely discourteous to let your typos extend to people’s names and remain uncorrected. True, what you say is extremely unimportant but that is no excuse for advertising your disdain for readers.

  427. Alden says:
    @geokat62

    Golda’s smoking too. That’s what progressive , liberal women did back in 1900 to show how progressive unconventional and modern they were. As for her looks and extremely dowdy dresses and hair style. That was the proud badge of every communist woman at the time. It really indicates she was a secret communist as well as a Zionist. They all went out of their way to look like that. Like a uniform.

    Ever see Betty Freidan? She snagged the perfect husband who provided a very comfortable upper middle class lifestyle. And then complained about it. She was living proof that men don’t care what a woman looks like.

    Freudian was chairman of a college socialist club that was really a communist party front group. Went to work as a writer for IBEW the electricians union. Most people think IBEW is for a good job, good wages and benefits and working with contractors copper mine owners architects and electrical engineers to further the industry and make a good living for everybody. . Like lobbying for costly electric heat instead of cheaper gas heat. The industry’s really on a roll right now Save Mother Earth by switching to electrical everything.

    IBEW began in St Louis 1890s by the guys who strung and cared for Telegraph wires. Soon the communists realized how important electricity would become. And infiltrated IBEW and the EEs associations. The idea was that come the revolution certain occupations like electricians could shut the country down. Most electricians and E Engineers knew nothing about the communists in the industry.

    That’s Betty Friedan a true conscious communist operative . As soon as she began making money from her books and her jobs in NOW* and other non profits she divorced her husband and demanded vast amounts of alimony and child support for I think 2 kids in their late teens the husband would finance college for anyway . The crusading communist turned into a poor helpless little housewife who couldn’t survive without vast amounts of child support and alimony.
    Women electricians refuse to change to inside wire woman or wire person. They are proud Inside Wiremen. Men created the electrical industry that provides them high pay, interesting work sometimes, and solid career paths. That’s why they insist on being Wiremen

    * NOW National Organization of Wicked White Witches. And tools of the Ford, Rockefeller and other capitalist pig Foundations who reduced wages and benefits for both men and women.

  428. I think we know Israel intentionally attacked theLiberty. Moreover, it seems overwhelmingly probable that indeed, Johnson colluded in the attack. Israel is arrogant, but it would have been insanely foolhardy for her to attack a US Navy vessel on the assumption that she could sink it without us ever becoming aware of who had actually done it. The Israelis just aren’t that stupid — nor, at the time, were they particularly desperate.

    Now, as to the motives of each party. To me, it’s clear that Israel wanted to ensure that we would acquiesce in her seizure of the Golan Heights, the West Bank, and Sinai. We did in any case, but she may not have been confident of that at the time. If, though, it could be made to appear that the Arabs had sunk a US vessel in the course of the fighting, we would be certain to be much more sympathetic to Israel’s position.

    Johnson’s motive? There’s the reelection bid hypothesis Unz outlines — that is, as he says, plausible. It’s also possible that Israel had, as he himself would have put it, Johnson’s pecker in their pocket. Johnson may have played ball because he had to. There had always been a lot of skeletons in his closet, and Israel quite likely knew about some of them. This wouldn’t have been the first time Johnson had done as Israel wished.

    It is at this point that I so often part ways with conspiracy theorists, though. I’m perfectly prepared to accept the possibility that we will never establish all the facts about the attack — or about many other events of the past. But that’s okay — in fact, I tend to prefer getting dragged into making the attempt. When it comes to issues with practical consequences, what do we know, and what actions does that imply we should take?

    To me, it suffices that Israel’s culpability is clear. It’s one more reason we shouldn’t support Israel, and focusing on this certainty is more likely to bring about the concrete benefit of ending our association with that ‘shitty little country’ than wandering off into speculations about a long-dead politician’s machinations. Indeed, I tend to see that sort of thing as something of a trap: one winds up debating not certainties, but unprovable conjectures.

    It’s more important to end our support for Israel. That is best achieved by insisting on confining any argument to what can be shown to be indisputable fact.

  429. ‘…Indeed, Flynn alleges that by late 1937, FDR had turned towards an aggressive foreign policy aimed at involving the country in a major foreign war, primarily because he believed that this was the only route out of his desperate economic and political box, a stratagem not unknown among national leaders throughout history…’

    To be fair, Roosevelt may have felt that halting Japanese and/or German aggression was both the solution to his political problems and the right thing to do morally. The two aren’t mutually exclusive. In fact, in general the key to a healthy society is to make self-interest coincide with morality: when the two diverge you either don’t get anywhere, or get somewhere bad.

    If it was in our (or at least Roosevelt’s) self-interest to fight and win World War Two, well, maybe it was in other people’s interest as well. Nothing wrong with that.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @lysias
  430. Blissex says:

    «Indeed, the German capture and publication of secret Polish diplomatic documents in 1939 had already revealed much of this information, and William Henry Chamberlin confirmed their authenticity in his 1950 book.»

    Which shows that the nazi leadership were insane, because then they knew that the USA was out to get them, and would surely win, and yet declared war on the USA when Japan attacked Pearl Harbour. The japanese leadership were also quite sure that they would lose the war, and only attacked because they thought that surrendering without fighting was dishonourable, which at least was a culturally appropriate rationale. But what was the nazi rationale for starting a war that they were sure to lose very badly? Just love of “Gotterdamerung”?

    Note: at the time the USA were financing and supporting the enemies of nazism, rather than being fully neutral, but even so that was very different from starting an open war with them.

    • Replies: @Pierre de Craon
  431. @Colin Wright

    I am in substantial agreement with you. Obviously you are not a specialist FDR scholar but I wonder if you have ever heard FDR quoted, even falsely, as having said something callous or just careless about Pearl Harbor to anyone. Something even ambiguous like “Well you can’t make an omelette without breaking eggs. All I’ll say is Peearl Harbour cooked us an omelette that eill feed us through to victory” or “Tough on Kimmel and Short, but I won’t even be saying that when I’m in my dotage”. Is there ANYTHING?

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  432. @Wizard of Oz

    ‘…Obviously you are not a specialist FDR scholar but I wonder if you have ever heard FDR quoted, even falsely, as having said something callous or just careless about Pearl Harbor to anyone. Something even ambiguous like “Well you can’t make an omelette without breaking eggs. All I’ll say is Peearl Harbour cooked us an omelette that eill feed us through to victory” or “Tough on Kimmel and Short, but I won’t even be saying that when I’m in my dotage…’

    I doubt if Roosevelt would have said anything. He was a rather astute politician — and perfectly capable of the most shameless deceit. See his promise in the 1940 campaign to keep America out of the war — while he was doing everything he could to get us in it. His evasions and prevarications at the time of the Warsaw Uprising furnish further examples.

    However, it doesn’t follow that he didn’t sincerely think everything he was doing was for the best — and naturally, since he was the best choice to lead the country, what was good for his electoral prospects was good for America. It’s perfectly possible he was right, too.

  433. lysias says:
    @Colin Wright

    If it was in our (or at least Roosevelt’s) self-interest to fight and win World War Two, well, maybe it was in other people’s interest as well. Nothing wrong with that.

    Unfortunately, fighting and winning World War Two turns out not to have been in our interest, in the long run. No World War Two, then no U.S. as the world’s sole superpower, which is what has gotten us into our present fix.

    You may say nobody can see that far into the future. But Scipio Aemilianus recognized that it was not in Rome’s interest to fight the Third Punic War, because he foresaw what that would lead to, in the long run. For that, we have the testimony of Scipio’s friend Polybius.

  434. @lysias

    ‘Unfortunately, fighting and winning World War Two turns out not to have been in our interest, in the long run. No World War Two, then no U.S. as the world’s sole superpower, which is what has gotten us into our present fix.’

    Perhaps. However, you can’t guarantee that in your alternate timeline, we wouldn’t have found ourself in an even worse fix.

    • Agree: Wizard of Oz
  435. Bolteric says:
    @Ron Unz

    The fates of the two countries are so uniquely intertwined it hardly matters who is the prime mover. What is interesting is how culpability is first cleared with regard to Israeli involvement and the Presidents (hand-picked appointees) are lurking to some degree in the background in almost every outbreak of intercontinental warfare. The players can’t help themselves, and the actors are interchangeable. While each demonstrates in-group preference, the whole thing is pathetic from a bird’s eye view.

  436. @lysias

    The USA spent WW2 planning how to rule the world after it ended. The structure of the Washington Consensus of economic tyranny, to be administered through US-dominated organs, like IMF, World Bank, GATT then WTO, was planned, then at Bretton Woods the more internationalist ambitions of the likes of Keynes were dismissed. The US ended the war with 60% of global GDP, and as George Kennan soon put into writing, the plan was to maintain that disparity and privilege forever. To maintain that eminence hundreds of millions have been murdered in aggressions, starved, throttled by neo-liberal capitalism through Structural Adjustment Programs and pitiless sanctions. Now China looms and the Final Solution for that problem is plainly regarded by the Western elites as a Holy Crusade.

  437. Bolteric says:
    @Ron Unz

    That’s a reasonable position. In effect, judge people by their actions, not their heritage.

    Again, you’re going to find bad actors among any set of people. Most of us have quite normal, friendly relationships with the Jews in America, regardless of whatever supremacy exists on either side.

  438. @Ron Unz

    Here’s an afterthought as to how the deliberate Israeli attack on the Liberty just might be innocently explained consistently with what we so far know.

    I had previously accepted that the commander of the 6th Fleet would have known exactly where the Liberty was so that the 6th Fleet couldn’t have misinformed the Israelis about the whereabouts of a US Navy ship in its area.

    But there was a stuff up with orders for the Liberty to move about 100 miles into international waters not having been received by Liberty. It has to be conceivable that whoever received and replied to an Israeli query knewof the order to Liberty and replied in a way which appeared to cover the facts but did not. E.g. “all US Navy ships ordered to be in international waters by 10am” or some such.

    I think anyone with an interest in knowing the truth rather than just piling ignominy on their favourite villain(s) should be open to having to change tack to meet unforeseen side winds of which no doubt there are still many to blow.

    Interesting how this fits in with appreciation of the probabilities. Is it 2 per cent chance of an innocent explanation now? But what about 75 per cent if my speculation proved true? In another lifetime I will master Bayesian inference.

  439. FHTEX says:
    @Chris Moore

    So much about the USS Liberty is hearsay, nonsense, and slander. The notion is ludicrous that Lyndon Johnson — a US Navy reservist who agonized over every bombing raid near the Chinese border for fear of provoking a nuclear conflagration in Vietnam — deliberately set up the USS Liberty for attack so as to trigger WWIII and detonate nuclear bombs over Cairo. If that were all the case, why would the USS Liberty be ordered to remain 100 nm off the coast prior to the attack?

    What is almost certain that Israel deliberately attacked the USS Liberty from numerous platforms, although the exact reasons why are disputed. The Naval Inquiry was cursory and never meant to get at the truth. Chief of Naval Operations Thomas Moorer, Dean Rusk, and others in the Johnson administration believed Israel was culpable. Johnson supposedly privately doubted the Warren Commission conclusions and the Gulf of Tonkin attack, and he once called the CIA “Murder, Inc.” Yet, he went along with all of these charades in the end. Why? Personally, I think he was beholden–or at least feared–powerful forces at the heart of our government.

  440. Clyde says:
    @Ron Unz

    John S. Huffman and Mary Elizabeth Perrin.

    Both those last names can be Jewish, as seen on Bing, that is not as good as google. So a bit more on LBJ possibly being part Jewish. Or all Jewish matrilineally/3 generations worth, which is the real Jewish determination.

  441. @Blissex

    … Which shows that the Nazi leadership were insane, because then they knew that the USA was out to get them, and would surely win, and yet declared war on the USA when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor.

    There are several good reasons to regard the German declaration of war in the aftermath of Pearl Harbor as very sensible indeed. I list what I think are two of the best below.

    (1) The FDR administration’s Rainbow Five plan, which outlined the conquest and destruction of Germany by a five-million-man invasion force, envisioned 1943 as the earliest possible date for the plan’s execution. Although court historians dismiss the plan as a hoax meant to frighten the Germans, their rationale is based less on evidence than on rationalization. Furthermore, although the usual claim is that the German government first learned of the plan when the Chicago Tribune—whose owner, Robert McCormick, detested FDR—broke the story on December 4, 1941, there is no reason to think that Germany’s formidable intelligence network had not already learned of the plan. This is especially so in light of (a) Germany’s former alliance with the Soviet Union and (b) the widespread and now widely known infiltration of FDR’s inner circle by Soviet agents and fellow travelers.

    (2) The German-Japanese alliance was extremely important to the long-term goals of both governments. Yet by early 1941 it had reached a point of greater instability than it would ever again know till the end of the war. The Russians inflicted a catastrophic defeat on the Japanese at Nomonhan in their Manchurian border war of 1939, but within a month or so of that defeat, the Russians and Germans signed the secret Molotov-Ribbentrop pact—but it was no secret to Japan, Germany’s deeply insulted ally, which suffered a grave loss of face from the pact. Thus, it became a central aim of German diplomatic policy to keep relations with Japan from deteriorating further. So in early December 1941, why not aid an indispensable ally when you know that the country your ally has gone to war with is planning to attack you in two years with an overwhelming force that is still in a state that is a long way from readiness?

    Putting (1) and (2) together, it shouldn’t be hard to see that the German government might consider war with the United States as the least undesirable of the several undesirable alternatives with which it was presented. Indeed, the United States exhibited far less rationality after 9/11 when it went to war with Afghanistan and Iraq—unless, that is, one considers the maintenance of perpetual subservience to a certain Tribe sufficient explanation for every foolish, criminal, and monstrous act.

    • Thanks: Wizard of Oz
  442. @Pierre de Craon

    Roosevelt had absolutely no means of persuading the public to support something like Rainbow Five until Hitler had actually declared war. After Pearl Harbor the public was raring to go to war against Japan. But without Hitler declaring war there would have been no way for Roosevelt to get them to go to war against Germany. Leaking Rainbow Five to a hostile newspaper like The Chicago Tribune makes perfect sense as an effective way for Roosevelt to induce Hitler to declare war first. As a dictator in Germany Hitler tended to underestimate the degree to which Roosevelt depended upon swaying public opinion.

    • Replies: @Pierre de Craon
  443. @Patrick McNally

    As it is unlikely that anyone in the government will ever release official records supporting any position that doesn’t flatter FDR, I won’t waste time or keystrokes in an argument based solely on speculation. Thus, you shouldn’t be surprised to hear that I prefer my own assessment of the pre-war situation here and abroad to yours.

    That said, I shall add only that I do not share your opinion that there were effective practical limits on what American presidents from Lincoln to the present could get away with and did. (I omit virtue as a limit because of its extreme scarcity among public figures.) The sole limiting factor, at least till 2020, was the quadrennial election and the desire of the incumbent, almost always with his party’s support, to win it.* Now, however, that any election that is not entirely dependent on paper ballots and the close scrutiny of every aspect of polling by white Christian men of integrity must be considered ipso facto fraudulent, the time for anyone of sense to continue indulging the myriad fantasies of “democracy” that are peddled nonstop to a willingly gullible public is well and truly over.

    I wish that I had kept a record of the remarks of the cynical but frank official who said somewhere last November that it was necessary to steal the 2020 election so that no future election would have to be stolen. Until his sort, which has been around for millennia, is shot on sight, truly limited government will not stand a chance of again finding a home anywhere on this planet.
    ___________________
    *Anyone who doubts FDR’s willingness to do literally anything to get his way ought to take a gander at Scapegoats: A Defense of Kimmel and Short at Pearl Harbor (1995), by the late Edward L. Beach, USN. To such a man, public opinion was merely something to be manipulated.

    • Replies: @Patrick McNally
  444. @Pierre de Craon

    Everything you say about FDR’s willingness to manipulate public opinion fits more neatly with Thomas Fleming’s analysis that the leaking of Rainbow 5 to the Chicago Tribune was done at FDR’s behest. As Fleming points out, it was basically impossible for FDR to overtly advocate a war against Germany after Pearl Harbor without Hitler first declaring war. The most he could do was insinuate on December 9 that Hitler had somehow been party to Japan’s strike on Pearl Harbor.

    http://www.americanheritage.com/big-leak

  445. @Patrick McNally

    You have changed the subject to something you’d rather talk about and are acting as if I have been talking about it, too! Can’t you see that?

    Don’t you see that there is no inherent contradiction between what you call Fleming’s thesis vis-à-vis a leak of the Rainbow 5 plan by FDR’s White House to the Chicago Tribune and what I wrote in comment no. 446? Besides, his thesis is a surmise through and through, as he freely admits. The fact that it makes sense—in a very, very limited framework—makes it no less a surmise, however.

    There is also the fact that Fleming assumes Rainbow 5 to have been a hoax. It wasn’t. Do you think that the Morgenthau Plan simply materialized out of thin air? Do you really deny the presence of Soviet agents in the government? Can’t you understand that they must have been cooperating with German intelligence while the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact was in effect and that when the pact broke down, they too were pushing Roosevelt hard to declare war on Germany?

    Furthermore, I repeat what I plainly implied in 448: it is naive to contend that FDR would have found it “basically impossible” to declare war against Germany absent a prior declaration of war by Germany itself. For one thing, every highly placed Jew in the United States and the UK—especially those atop the banking world, most of whom were Rothschilds or affiliated with them—had been pushing for the USA to enter the war against Germany since September 1939, indeed earlier. For FDR, a man whose lust for power and money were insatiable, the choice between the desires of powerful Jews and the needs of ordinary American citizens—some of whom had had the gall to vote for someone else!—was not a tough choice to make.

    Just as the present-day revolution within American society, the radical corruption of the already questionable electoral process, and the worldwide covid hoax are pieces in a larger plan, so too were the dozen or so threads that brought the United States into a murderous and unnecessary world war—unnecessary for all save the Jewish bankers and power brokers and those they had bought or blackmailed, including a president who effectively ruled for life and might still be president were he alive today.

    • Agree: Truth Vigilante
    • Replies: @Patrick McNally
  446. @Patrick McNally

    I ought to have noted in my previous reply that your silence about the complex internal politics within the Axis alliance leads me to think that it’s an area with which you are largely unfamiliar, particularly with regard to the stresses acting upon it, especially but not solely those involving Japan and Germany. This is important stuff.

    Also, concerning both Germany and Japan, for reasons of space I neglected to mention that Japan’s attack on Pearl Harbor—which scrupulously targeted none but military and naval objectives—and Germany’s subsequent declaration of war on the United States were in fact replies to aggression, not initiating acts of aggression themselves. By December 1941, FDR had plainly involved the United States in the war in open collusion with the Allies in the European, Asian mainland, Atlantic, and Pacific theaters. In other words, according to international law, the USA had been guilty of dozens of casūs belli before what was, strictly speaking, Japan’s reprisal attack on Pearl Harbor.

  447. Incitatus says:
    @Pierre de Craon

    “There are several good reasons to regard the German declaration of war in the aftermath of Pearl Harbor as very sensible indeed.”

    Really? You’re smarter than Fritz Todt?

    “This war can no longer be won by military means…[it] can only be ended politically”
    – Reichminister Fritz Todt to Adolf Hitler 29 Nov 1941:

    Todt also warns direct US involvement would be fatal. Hitler declares war two weeks later; Todt is killed 8 Feb 1942; Speer takes command. Brilliant man, losing battle.

    “it shouldn’t be hard to see that the German government might consider war with the United States as the least undesirable of the several undesirable alternatives with which it was presented.”

    “German government”? LOL! It was ONE man (school drop-out, youthful vagabond, 4-year-unpromoted gefeiter (PFC), Reichswehr spy, two-time Austrian felon, aged suicidal Svengali bulimic who led the NSDAP cult to destroy Germany with a two-front war. And then (in defeat) ordered Germany destroyed.

    No sympathy for any “tribe”. Less sympathy for ‘revisionists’ paper-thin pleas to scapegoat ‘tribes’ to establish bogus history. Last, no sympathy for a troll who steals a family name as his “nom d’Internet”.

    • Replies: @Pierre de Craon
  448. @Incitatus

    What really bothers you, Ned, is that you know that I’m a lot smarter than you.

    Now that readers know what your control back in Tel Aviv wants them to think, why not speak for yourself? Could it be that your own views are even more asinine, vulgar, and bloodthirsty than his?

    • Replies: @Incitatus
  449. @Pierre de Craon

    Absolutely silly. There certainly is a contradiction between your claim that FDR had the political power to enact something like Rainbow 5 without a declaration of war from Germany and the facts about how he was forced to maneuver. FDR did not have supernatural powers but was simply a canny politician who knew how to provoke reactions. In this case, the reaction by Hitler of a declaration of war against his better instincts.

    I didn’t go off about German-Japanese relations within the Axis because it seemed unnecessary, but if you want to get onto that then Fleming had already covered the points. Hitler was personally flabbergasted at Japan’s move to bomb Pearl Harbor. He had made promises to Japan that he would support them in a general conflict, but had expected that they would attack British forces without bringing a whole new power, the USA, into the war. His first inclination was to let Japan stew in a mess which it had created. Concern over German-Japanese relations was not his motive when declaring war on the USA.

    What influenced him to finally declare was exactly the leak about Rainbow 5 and the assumption that Roosevelt would be able to act upon this independently without needing a German declaration of war. That was a miscalculation where he interpreted things the way Roosevelt had intended. But no, Roosevelt did not have any power to do this. You’re simply exaggerating Roosevelt’s ability to ram through anything at anytime that he liked, when he did not have such powers.

    • Thanks: Wizard of Oz
    • Replies: @Pierre de Craon
  450. Incitatus says:
    @Pierre de Craon

    “What really bothers you, Ned, is that you know that I’m a lot smarter than you.”

    Sorry. Nothing really ‘bothers’ me. Even you stupidly changing the subject.

    You asserted “good reasons” for Hitler declaring war on the US 11 Dec 1941, never responded to Todt’s warning it would be fatal. Forget?

    “Now that readers know what your control back in Tel Aviv wants them to think…”

    Instead you fall back into UR knee-jerk Jew-Zionist baiting (I’m neither). Desperate? Clear signal you don’t know your subject, depend on ad-hominem when confronted with facts and principal quotes.

    Just like your retreat on your “Christophobia’ nonsense. Yes, more ad hominem please to cover your stupidity! Add to that theft of family names in juvenile “nom d’Internet” onanism.

    Fess up, peu “Pierre” [Billy-Joe Smith?]. You’re sitting in your mother’s basement somewhere in PigsKnuckle USA nursing victimhood for underachievement. Best you tend to that before worrying about adult history.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  451. @Incitatus

    Be careful. I picked one elderly UR bluster, inheritor of a bit of money from Dad, and with a moderately cosmopolitan work record as an alcoholic, without any attempt to deny it in return, and he has disappeared. Just to the Sahara? Or to a suicidal grave?

    • Replies: @Incitatus
  452. Incitatus says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    “Be careful.”

    I certainly try to be. Is there a ‘reckonin commin’? We’ll see. Have kin 1775-83 and both sides 1861-65. It’s nothing new.

    Keep eyes sharp and powder dry.

    Stay well WOZ

  453. Mark Hunter says: • Website

    I added a reference to RU’s article in a footnote to
    Attempted Sinking of the USS Liberty
    along with a link to the Links page containing a live link to his article..

    RU writes in the “personal quest for information” style. The above is in the “you are there,”present tense, style.

  454. beau says:

    lyndon baines johnson (small letters intended) was a rotten human being, a more rotten senator and 0ne of the most rotten presidents this nation has ever had the misfortune to live under. we are still living under the effects of the administration of this wanton, mean spirited megalomaniac so very easy to hate.

    remove his headstone/other grave material, disinter his bones, put the bones on a plane at the north pole on a heading to the south pole and throw one bone out of the plane window every 5 minutes until all have been so disposed of. too much? for who he was and what he did? never.

    • Agree: anarchyst
  455. anonymous[303] • Disclaimer says:

    So uh lemme get this straight. Armed attack on the Liberty, Exhibit A in the indictment of unpunished Israeli hostile action against the USA, turns out to be a US provocation as pretext for a US-planned nuclear attack? In sinking the Liberty, Izzies were just doing a solid for the US civil-military command structure?

    gasp. gaspety gasp gasp.

    And LBJ didn’t seem to know what was going on, even though he normally micromanages this stuff – and his apparent blithe ignorance proves he ordered it? Though CIA’s warning didn’t get seen due to a remarkable series of fuckups? So, just like when GW Bush got stuck in a kindergarten and menaced by sinister exploding cameramen during the centrally-orchestrated war propaganda of 911, LBJ was made a fool of, too? Just to clarify – that’s LBJ, who got advance notice of JFK’s assassination at Clint Murchison’s house? LBJ, the first president to get direct proof that the president’s a puppet ruler?

    “But if we accept the framework proposed by Hounam, Nelson, Mellen, and their adherents and postulate the secret direction of CIA, both these difficulties immediately disappear.” There, fixed it for ya.

    Once again Izzies turn out to be the Gunga Din of CIA wetwork.

  456. Gypsy33 says:
    @Ann Nonny Mouse

    Nope. He’s rotting in hell as he should be.

  457. @Change that Matters

    Just look at who owns the New York Times and their tribal affiliation and you have the answer.

Current Commenter
says:

Leave a Reply - Comments on articles more than two weeks old will be judged much more strictly on quality and tone


 Remember My InformationWhy?
 Email Replies to my Comment
$
Submitted comments have been licensed to The Unz Review and may be republished elsewhere at the sole discretion of the latter
Commenting Disabled While in Translation Mode
Subscribe to This Comment Thread via RSS Subscribe to All Ron Unz Comments via RSS
Personal Classics
Analyzing the History of a Controversial Movement
The Surprising Elements of Talmudic Judaism
The Shaping Event of Our Modern World