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I recently spent a few weeks producing print collections of my lengthy American Pravda series, deciding to finally make the articles available in hard copy.

ORDER IT NOW

The first volume was entitled Encountering American Pravda and contained my earliest pieces. Running a slender 150 pages, it can easily be read in just a day or two, and is ideally suited for introducing newcomers to the controversial material. Thus, it serves as a wading-pool, preparing readers for the deeper waters and far more explosive contents in the rest of the series, which together constitute a historical counter-narrative to the events of the last one hundred years.

I dedicated the book to a famed New York Times journalist, whose work had inspired the entire series:

To the Memory of Sydney Schanberg,
Who Opened My Eyes About the American Media

The reference is explained in the short introduction that follows:

A major turning-point in my views came when I stumbled across the astonishing work of Pulitzer Prize winner Sydney Schanberg, one of America’s most esteemed Vietnam War journalists and a former top editor at the New York Times. He had spent years compiling a mountain of compelling evidence implicating our national leaders in a monumental act of wartime treachery, with Sen. John McCain being a central figure in covering up that scandal. Yet although this shocking material was released at the height of McCain’s 2008 presidential run, it was entirely ignored by virtually all of our media outlets, liberal and conservative alike.

If a story so important and so well-documented by such a writer could be disregarded by all our journalists, then our mainstream media merely constituted an American Pravda, just as distorted and dishonest as the notorious Soviet propaganda organ of that name.

 

Schanberg’s passing in 2016 prompted me to write a tribute to his remarkable journalism and that piece launched my own American Pravda series. Having recently reread it for my collection, I think that portions of the story I told are even more relevant today and worth quoting at length:

The death on Saturday of Sydney Schanberg at age 82 should sadden us not only for the loss of one of our most renowned journalists but also for what his story reveals about the nature of our national media.

Syd had made his career at the New York Times for 26 years, winning a Pulitzer Prize, two George Polk Memorial awards, and numerous other honors. His passing received the notice it deserved, with the world’s most prestigious broadsheet devoting nearly a full page of its Sunday edition to his obituary, a singular honor that in this degraded era is more typically reserved for leading pop stars or sports figures. Several photos were included of his Cambodia reporting, which had become the basis for the Oscar-winning film The Killing Fields, one of Hollywood’s most memorable accounts of our disastrous Indo-Chinese War.

But for all the 1,300 words and numerous images charting his long and illustrious journalistic history, not even a single mention was made of the biggest story of his career, which has seemingly vanished down the memory hole without trace. And therein lies a tale.

 

Could a news story ever be “too big” for the media to cover? Every journalist is always seeking a major expose, a piece that not merely reaches the transitory front pages but also might win a journalistic prize or even change the history books. Stories such as these appear rarely but can make a reporter’s career, and it is difficult to imagine a writer turning one down, or an editor rejecting it.

But what if the story is so big that it actually reveals dangerous truths about the real nature of the American media, portrays too many powerful people in a very negative light, and perhaps leads to a widespread loss of faith in our major news media? If readers were to see a story like that, they might naturally begin to wonder “why hadn’t we ever been told?” or even “what else might be out there?”

Towards the end of the 2008 presidential campaign, while John McCain battled Barack Obama for the White House, I clicked an intriguing link on a small website and discovered Syd’s remarkable expose, one which had been passed over or rejected by every major media outlet in the country, his enormous personal reputation notwithstanding.

The basic outline of events he described was a simple one. During the Paris Peace Talks that ended the Vietnam War, the U.S. government had committed to pay its Hanoi adversaries \$3.25 billion in war reparations, and in exchange would receive back the American POWs held by the Vietnamese. The agreement was signed and the war officially ended, but the Vietnamese, suspecting a possible financial double-cross, kept back many hundreds of the imprisoned Americans until they received the promised payment.

For domestic political reasons, the Nixon Administration had characterized the billions of dollars pledged as “humanitarian assistance” and Congress balked at appropriating such a large sum for a hated Communist regime. Desperate for “peace with honor” and already suffering under the growing Watergate Scandal, Nixon and his aides could not admit that many hundreds of the POWs remained in enemy hands, and so declared them all returned, probably hoping to quietly arrange a trade of money for prisoners once the dust had settled. Similarly, Hanoi’s leaders falsely claimed that all the captives had been released, while they waited for their money to be paid. As a result, the two governments had jointly created a Big Lie, one which has largely maintained itself right down to the present day.

In the troubled aftermath of America’s military defeat and the Nixon resignation, our entire country sought to forget Vietnam, and neither elected officials nor journalists were eager to revisit the issue, let alone investigate one of the war’s dirtiest secrets. The Vietnamese continued to hold their American prisoners for most of the next twenty years, periodically making attempts to negotiate their release in exchange for the money they were still owed, but never found a American leader daring enough to take such a bold step. The Big Lie had grown just too enormous to be overturned.

Over the years, rumors surrounding the remaining POWs became widespread in veterans’ circles, and eventually these stories inspired a series of blockbuster Hollywood movies such as Rambo, Missing in Action, and Uncommon Valor, whose plots were all naturally dismissed or ridiculed as “rightwing conspiracy theories” by our elite media pundits. But the stories were all true, and even as American filmgoers watched Sylvester Stallone heroically free desperate American servicemen from Vietnamese prisons, the real-life American POWs were still being held under much those same horrible conditions, with no American leader willing to take the enormous political risk of attempting either to rescue or ransom them. Over the years, many of the POWs had died from ill-treatment, and the return of the miserable survivors after their secret captivity would unleash a firestorm of popular anger, surely destroying the many powerful individuals who had long known of their abandonment.

Eventually, America’s bipartisan political leadership sought to reestablish diplomatic relations with Hanoi and finally put the Vietnam War behind the country, but this important policy goal was obstructed by the residual political pressure from the resolute POW families. So a Senate Select Committee on the POWs was established in order to declare their non-existence once and for all. Sen. John McCain, a very high profile former POW himself, led the cover-up, perhaps because the very dubious nature of his own true war record left him eager to trade secrecy for secrecy. Despite considerable evidence to the contrary, our media declared that the abandoned POWs had never existed and closed the books on the long, lingering controversy.

As it happens, not long after the committee issued its final report and shut down, a stunning document was unearthed in the newly-opened Kremlin archives. In the transcript of a Hanoi Politburo meeting, the Communist leadership discussed the true number of POWs they then held and made their decision to keep half of them back to ensure that America paid the billions of dollars it had promised. Former National Security Advisors Zbigniew Brzezinski and Henry Kissinger both stated on national television that the document appeared genuine and it seemed undeniable that American POWs had indeed been left behind. Although the national media devoted a couple of days of major coverage to this uncomfortable revelation, it then reported denials from both the U.S. and Vietnamese governments, and quickly dropped the story, returning to the official narrative: There were no abandoned POWs and never had been.

 

As I reviewed Syd’s massively-documented 8,000 word exposition, and confirmed for myself that the bylined Sydney Schanberg was indeed the Sydney Schanberg, I experienced a growing sense of unreality. I was reading what might rank as “the story of the century,” a scandal vastly greater and more gripping than the sordid political abuses of Watergate or Iran-Contra, a tale of national treachery suppressed for forty years by our government and our media, but now broken by one of America’s most distinguished journalists. The gravest possible charges were being levied against Sen. John McCain, the Republican nominee, coming right at the height of his presidential campaign. And not one word of this was being mentioned in any of our mainstream media outlets, while almost all of the thousands of political websites, large and small alike, remained just as silent. From that day forward, I have never looked upon our national media with the same eye.

Everyone to whom I showed the article was just as shocked as myself, except for one or two individuals with a strong Vietnam War background, who privately confirmed that it was all probably true.

The election came and went with McCain’s defeat, and the incoming Obama Administration began coping with the intensifying financial crisis, but I still couldn’t put Syd’s remarkable article out of my mind, nor the deafening silence it had received. Perhaps, I thought to myself, the piece had been ignored because it appeared on a small website with few readers, and the unprepossessing circumstances of its release had raised serious doubts about its credibility.

TAC-McCainPOWs At that time I served as publisher of The American Conservative, a small but generally well-regarded opinion magazine, and I eventually decided to commit my publication to providing the story the wider attention it so obviously deserved. By October I had gotten in touch with Syd, and spent several hours with him on the phone, explaining my interest, gaining his trust, and also assuring myself that he was still just as solid and sober a journalist as he had always been. I began preparations to republish his long expose as the cover story of one of my issues, making it the centerpiece of a symposium on government cover-ups and media lapses, with a special focus on the POW issue.

Not long afterward, Syd published a collection of his articles in book form, with his McCain/POW expose being one of the last and longest pieces. David Rohde, a two-time Pulitzer Prize winning war reporter then at The New York Times, described the outstanding journalism contained within, writing that “Sydney Schanberg is one of the greatest war correspondents of the twentieth century,” and the praise from Pulitzer Prize winner Russell Baker was equally fulsome. Joseph Galloway, a journalist who had authored major books on the Vietnam War, explicitly contrasted Syd’s integrity with the shameful reticence of nearly all other journalists who failed to acknowledge the reality of America’s hundreds of abandoned Vietnam POWs. So the historical truth seems to be known and generally accepted within informed circles, but no mainstream publication has been willing to allow it to reach the eyes or ears of the general population.

Syd had always believed that the American media was simply scared of his story, with its troubling implications, and I tend to agree with him. Just as the government has maintained its cover-up for all these years because admitting the truth would destroy too many reputations, crucial elements of the media may feel the same way. There is the famous precedent of Pulitzer Prize winning New York Times correspondent Walter Duranty, whose reports from the Soviet Union regularly ridiculed claims of any significant Ukrainian famine during the 1930s and thereby helped ensure that nearly all of America’s elite media discounted and ignored the reports that millions were dying. The Times took nearly sixty years before finally admitting its error.

 

ORDER IT NOW

Although Schanberg became the most prominent journalistic advocate of the Vietnam POW story, he had not been alone on the issue. The year before he wrote his major article, former Republican Rep. William Hendon and a co-author had published An Enormous Crime, a book on that same topic.

Hendon was a former military intelligence officer and during his two terms in the House of Representatives, he had become a leading political advocate for the POWs and their return, helping to organize many other members of Congress on the issue and continuing his efforts for decades after his reelection defeat. His exhaustive 2007 work runs nearly 600 pages and seems to provide the most comprehensive coverage of the entire story. Yet although it was released by a major press and sold well, it was unsurprisingly ignored by the entire media, and I only very recently got around to reading it.

I also recently read Rick Perlstein’s very widely praised three volume narrative political history of America in the 1950s, 1960s, and 1970s. Although my own assessment sharply differed from that consensus, I think the author helped shed some further light on why the media would never acknowledge the reality of Schanberg’s revelations.

ORDER IT NOW

Perlstein persuasively argued that during the later years of the Vietnam War, the Nixon Administration successfully shifted the entire focus of the conflict to the American POWs and their safe return, almost as if the war had originally been fought merely to free them. Under such circumstances, Nixon could not possibly admit that half of the prisoners still remained in captivity after peace was declared and the American went home.

But once journalists had been misled into swallowing the government’s falsehoods and several years had passed, the media became complicit in maintaining that same story. All our elite outlets and their top editors had despised Nixon and reveled in the central role they had played in removing him from office for abuses of power. For them to have later admitted that they had allowed him to get away with an act of monumental treachery would have been ruinous to their elevated post-Watergate reputation, especially since all those accusations had continually been made by elements of the right-wing fringe whom they most detested. For very similar reasons, Perlstein’s 2,300 pages of text makes no mention of Schanberg’s crucial research, let alone that of Hendon.

Building upon Schanberg’s seminal work, I later published a couple of articles of my own focusing upon Sen. John McCain’s role in the subsequent cover-up and the apparent reasons for his participation, as well as the broader conclusions we can probably draw regarding media reliability and the hidden undercurrents of the American political system. These pieces are included in the same print collection.

 
The McCain/POW Series
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  1. IronForge says:

    It’s a Shame.

    My HS Coach’s Son was a POW, my First CO (CAPT) was a POW at “Hanoi Hilton” (He’s on Film/TV in a NVNM Christmas Publicity Stunt – instead of just bowing before the Decorated Christmas Tree – he bowed in all four directions afterwards, causing a stir), and VADM Stockdale’s Ordeal was required reading at Annapolis.

    I’ve mixed feelings wrt the USA’s Intent/Role/Acts as History became revealed; but this shouldn’t have been brushed under for so long…

    • Replies: @Drive-by poster
    , @MadCat2
  2. Biff says:

    To the Memory of Sydney Schanberg,
    Who Opened My Eyes About the American Media

    Well done….

  3. Anonymous[387] • Disclaimer says:

    Kiss the Boys Good-bye, first published in 1990, covered the abandoned POW story very well, and it was certainly common knowledge long before that by the families, friends and colleagues of the missing. We flew the POW/MIA flag and wore POW/MIA bracelets. Mine was for CDR Harley H. Hall :

    CDR Harley H. Hall was the commanding officer of Fighter Squadron 143 onboard the aircraft carrier USS ENTERPRISE. On January 27, 1973 he and his Radar Intercept Officer (RIO), LTCDR Philip A. Kientzler, launched in their F4J Phantom fighter aircraft on an attack mission against North Vietnamese supplies and logistic vehicles 15 miles northwest of Quang Tri, South Vietnam. Hall and Kientzler were under the direction of an OV10 Forward Air Controller (FAC).

    CDR Hall’s aircraft came under intense anti-aircraft fire while attacking several trucks and was hit. He made an attempt to fly back out to the safety of the sea, but minutes later the aircraft caught fire on the port wing and fuselage.

    Both Hall and his co-pilot, LCDR Philip A. Kintzler ejected at 4,000 feet and were seen to land 100 feet apart near a village on an island in the Dam Cho Chua and Cua Viet Rivers. CDR Hall was seen moving about on the ground, discarding his parachute. No voice contact was made with the men, and the probability of immediate capture was considered very high.

    Numerous aircraft made several passes over the area for the next several hours and were unsuccessful in observing either of the downed crewmen. Several emergency beepers were heard intermittently the remainder of the afternoon and throughout the night, however, no voice contact was established. Active, organized search and rescue efforts were subsequently terminated.

    Only Kientzler was released at Operation Homecoming in 1973. He reported that during parachute descent they received heavy ground fire, at which time he was hit in the leg. He last saw CDR Hall as they touched the ground. When he asked his guards about his pilot, he was told that he was killed by another.

    No other returned POW reported having knowledge of Harley Hall, yet the Pentagon maintained him in POW status for over 6 years, and documents were obtained that indicated that he was indeed captured. The Hanoi government claims to have no knowledge of CDR Harley Hall. This former member of the famed Blue Angels flight team remains missing.

    • Thanks: GMC, Achmed E. Newman
  4. Rurik says:

    Excellent, as usual. I’m sure that were someone to ask him, Mr. Schanberg [RIP] would be proud to know you’re carrying on with his great (and monumentally important) journalistic work, in a time (of universal moral cowardice) when it seems almost nonexistent. But then I suspect the persecution of Julian Assange (and the assassinations of Michael Hastings and others), is intended for that very outcome.

    … All our elite outlets and their top editors had despised Nixon … … by elements of the right-wing fringe whom they most detested.

    Not only did they despise Nixon, they also despised the working class men sent to kill and die in yet another war based on lies, (aren’t they all). So it wouldn’t be as tho they gave a rip about those betrayed men’s terrible fate. Much like the leaders in Kiev have no qualms about bombing POW facilities and slaughtering their own men in Ukraine, if it suits some agenda of theirs to do so. Nonetheless, as usual, McCain [rot in hell] is the most loathsome of them all.

    … as well as the broader conclusions we can probably draw regarding media reliability and the hidden undercurrents of the American political system.

    !

    .

    • Thanks: JR Foley
    • Replies: @Chuck Orloski
  5. Briggs says:

    Americans don’t care anymore. They’re too busy worshipping niggers and gorging themselves on fast food.

    The American government has NEVER given a shit about its populace, except for the niggers.

    Oh yeah, and D-Day? It happened on 6/6 at 6 AM. 666. D-Day was a literal satanic human sacrifice ritual

    • Troll: Wizard of Oz, Agent76, W
    • Replies: @james1
  6. During the Paris Peace Talks that ended the Vietnam War, the U.S. government had committed to pay its Hanoi adversaries \$3.25 billion in war reparations, and in exchange would receive back the American POWs held by the Vietnamese.

    Compare that claim with the text of the Agreement on ending the war and restoring peace in Viet-Nam https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume%20935/volume-935-I-13295-English.pdf

    A search through the document found no mention of the word “reparations”. Article 21:

    The United States anticipate that this Agreement will usher in an era of reconciliation with the Democratic Republic of Viet-Nam as with all the peoples of Indochina. In pursuance of its traditional policy, the United States will contribute to healing the wounds of war and to postwar reconstruction of the Democratic Republic of Viet-Nam and throughout Indochina.

    In the entire Agreement, the Dollar Sign symbol is quite missing. Nixon making a promise both he and the Vietnamese knew he would not keep was meaningless flummery. As with the promises of No-NATO expansion, things not written into actual agreements don’t exist for Official Washington.

    The US suffered over 58,000 dead in the Vietnam war, and another 150,000 wounded. Somewhere between 1.5 – 5.5 million “natives” also got slaughtered. I believe Vietnam was realistic enough to understand that holding 500 men hostage was not going to be any kind of “leverage” with the DC psychopaths.

    That’s supposing so many were actually captured. The present war in Ukraine has demonstrated POWs get murdered. Some right on the spot, others later. It happens in every war – all sides – to some degree.

    Stoking this POW fantasy story strikes me as being right up there with hyping the Moon Landing Hoax.

  7. I remember one sunny boring morning in May 2018 when I woke hungover and was checked the Iranian main outlets and commentators’ opinions about Trump’s withdrawal of JCPOA. As alwyas they were full of stupid points and low political cunnings from bunch of mental midgets who blamed this on Iranian leaders in order to gain our yet stupider middle-class people’s attention who always LOVE nagging and whining about everything Iranian and worshipping everything western. I remember the fuckin taste in my mouth… And then I googled Philip Girlady and Kevin Barret(whom btw I knew through Late Nader Talebzadeh’s TV program “Raaz/Mystry” which was my first gate to know American dissidents right after faked 9/11 attacks when I was still a college boy. RIP dear Nader) and 1 thing led to others and I found this magnificent site and know you Mr. RON UNZ.
    Im 41 now and I think I know the way our wretched world works. Im a Shi’it Muslim, MEerner and Iranian(in that order) and I never fully trust a westerner and trust a jew even less. But our Imam Ali(The Prophet Muhammad’s son in law and rightful heir) said “If a man doesnt appreciate the people who teach him great insights and enlightening lessons – whether they are friends or foes – then he deserves just a cold dusty hole in the graveyard and nothing more.” So since that cocky day in 2018 Ive been checking your Unz Review every single day before breakfast. US’ Sanctions tore my countrymen, my friends and my
    siblings apart. That micropennis orange coward ambushed and butchered my manliest of heros General Soleimani when he was unarmed and far from battlefield for his Israeli’s masters and many other nightmares fell on my ancient country and my only conciliation during all these was this site and its wise fair writers and ofcourse its well-knowledged commentators.
    Im sorry if my cm is too lengthy, but I just wanted you Mr Unz to know that I never forget the feelings and learnings I gained from your efforts, not even when they put me in my dusty hole in the graveyard. So God bless you and yours and peace and respect to all fair Christians, westerners and even jews.

    • Agree: Treg
    • Thanks: Kali, Almost Missouri
  8. When De Tocqueville toured the United States in the 1820s he remarked on the enormous number of newspapers there were in this country. He said it was the ingenious way the Americans had come up with to limit the malevolent influence that the periodicals had exercised in his native France while retaining the the benefits of the First Amendment’s guarantee of freedom of the press as a protection against tyranny. He described the American newspapers of that time as little more than broad sheets for advertisements with a news item tucked away here and there in some corner and the political opinions of the publisher tucked away in another corner.

    Anyone could start a newspaper practically and almost everyone did. Every hamlet had a half dozen papers competing with each other. He said all Americans understood the political benefit of this great proliferation of varied news sources. The competing voices drowned each other out and prevented the mischief the great periodicals of Europe were constantly exciting.

    Today of course we’ve become like Europe and we see the result– the stolen 2020 election being a prime example of the kind of mischief he was speaking of. Incidentally, John McCain, when he was head of the Senate Banking Committee, facilitated the great consolidation of the American media.

  9. Just one simple question strikes me as needing to be asked. Jimmy Carter must have known what the allegations were and was not compromised by being of Nixon’s party. He was also given to attempts to behave decently and conscientiously. I can’t see any glib answer without careful detail answering the question why thecPOW issue was not raised by Carter.

  10. GMC says:

    There are a lot of stories from Viet Nam but this one , like Ron said , was the one that should have been told first. While in country I knew that there must have been NVA POW camps in the jungles near or in Cambodia and Laos. I figured this out when I was ” roaming ” around in the Delta one day and stumbled across a South Vietnamese ” Prison” camp from a distance. Me and a friend snuck up closer to have a look with our binocs, and right away noticed how many guys were hung on poles and trees around the entrance. One place looked like a damned Christmas tree with ornaments. When we got back to our base camp , we asked some guys we knew { could trust} whether they knew about this place and I found no one that ever did.

    And as our first commenter Iron Forge stated about knowing other soldiers that had brothers or friends in the POW status , I knew a fellow soldier in our company that had a brother, that was MIA/POW and I discussed what I saw with him but I was sure this was a South Vietnamese prison and his brother went missing up North. Today, I laugh at the ” wrongly detained” folks in a Russian jail waiting to be exchanged. Especially when I and the rest of us know exactly how the real wrongfully detained people of the world, Face in a US or US funded Prison. I hope the Sheepeople someday turn into wolves – against the real enemy.

    • Replies: @Getaclue
  11. I grew up loving America, US Aid, the Peace Corps. With the American wars overseas, slowly but surely, I realised America was bad for the rest of the world.  

    Articles like this (as well as the Ron Unz article of the origins of the coronavirus) prove that America is bad for Americans.

    So how does this happen ? America is controlled by a force beyond what we see and hear. A Fifth Column.  The Deep State.  The Jew, the Protocols, the destruction of humanity, population reduction via genocide, take over of all farm land, millenarianism in the Protestant church.

    God help us.

    • Agree: Brad Anbro
  12. The public image of McCain created by the media could not have been more different from the true character of this wretched creature.Superfically forthright and charming,he was at his core a mean-spirited,unprincipled political hack and warmonger of the same ilk as his little fairy sidekick.

    The choice between McCain and Obama was the one of the worst American voters ever had to make.

  13. Tantrum says:

    The multitudes of psyops and the relentless faking of history is such that instead of public knowledge about events we end up with a mountain range of lies, and an industry dedicated to protecting it. Burrowing through all that nonsense to find out truths is a merciless work. Thank you Mr Unz.
    One of the reasons we have so many people turning to conspiracy theories is simply the lack of truth in the media. And of course, many of the conspiracies themselves are psyops. Looking at the Q people gives an insight into how a segment of the population can be manipulated into total submission. They are told to “wait until the denouement”, and they sit and wait. Amazing really.

    • Agree: W
  14. Franz says:

    So the historical truth seems to be known and generally accepted within informed circles, but no mainstream publication has been willing to allow it to reach the eyes or ears of the general population.

    They have a reputation somewhere between Carpetbaggers and the bugs that feed on corpses. Thanks for the short introduction to why.

    The whole of US history since 1945 is summed up in the political attitude “I can’t answer that it’s a matter of national security.” At least before then you could get answer, usually a lie.

    Can anyone imagine this happening to the guys in WWI or WWII. No. Why? Because before the present era our government had to declare a state of war before an army could march. Little things mean a lot. After we let Truman get away with Korea, the rule of law left Washington.

    • Replies: @Realist
  15. Legba says:

    Does anyone else find it odd that those POW/MIA flags started appearing on all the government buildings around the same time? Until then, we never used to need to wave flags and wear bracelets to declare our unforgetfulness.

    I wonder how much money China makes every year selling us those things

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Anonymous
  16. Jimmy1969 says:

    Ron I am a Vietnam War/Nixon/Watergate freak. I have studied the issues relentlessly for over 50 years. I have read most books and biographies on the subject, including thousands of scholarly articles and speeches. This topic is not there anywhere, even on the many Nixon tapes or in the private diaries of the top guys involved. I am now going to take a second look at it, but I am skeptical.

    • Thanks: Wizard of Oz, W
    • Replies: @Brad Anbro
  17. You write:
    There is the famous precedent of Pulitzer Prize winning New York Times correspondent Walter Duranty, whose reports from the Soviet Union regularly ridiculed claims of any significant Ukrainian famine during the 1930s and thereby helped ensure that nearly all of America’s elite media discounted and ignored the reports that millions were dying. The Times took nearly sixty years before finally admitting its error.

    So Ron Unz is hoping that the POW scandal will finally be revealed later this century.
    Will America still be around in 60 years time, never mind the New York Times ? Even now, the ancestors of many ” Americans” were not in America at the time of the Vietnam War. The grandchildren of Mexican immigrants know little about the Vietnam War, and care even less.

    This article is Stuff Old White People Read. Schanberg was 82 when he died in 2016, and Ron Unz is now in his 60s. It has little resonance in present day America. Even if the scandal were revealed in its entirety – it won’t – it would be largely ignored and quickly forgotten. Americans, as an UR columnist repeatedly says, are an insouciant people. When the “Democratic Party” stole the 2020 Presidential Election by massive electoral fraud, were there mass protests, riots even? Indeed not. If something similar had happened in France, for instance, there certainly would be.

  18. au Johnny says:

    Not knowing the facts about Nixon’s effort to hide the matter, I do remember the effort John Mc Cain went to belittle anyone who spoke out and some POWs stated that Mc Cain was treated well because his daddy was a Senator at the time and that he sucked up to the camp/ staff that carried out the integrations. How low can you go to leave behind your own soldiers. I feel sorry for the family’s. Government= mafia

    • Replies: @Notsofast
    , @Abbott Hall
  19. War is hell and to the victor go the spoils. It seems that only relatively recently in regular media has the fact emerged that millions of WW2 German POWS had been kept by the USSR for slave labour. But then again, they were really BAD guys so they deserved it.

    Is it legitimate for the victor to take what he wants from a conquered foe? History seems to say yes. As a matter of fact, taking booty was always a standard incentive for the common pawn to storm ramparts, the King be damned. Be it a ring, a watch and then some real ‘bootie’ for desert.

    What makes the Vietnam POWs different is that the loser of the conflict wasn’t destroyed as an entity. To the contrary, it was still very powerful in the world’s eyes and so politics not elements of supplication would determine the solution.

    And there we have it. Moral and humanitarian considerations always take a back seat to the almighty political imperative. In this case the deal was not painful stuff like loss of territory or ruinous Versailles type reparations, but simply some shekels to bring some brave sons home.

    But politically it was too expensive. So, so long, Lt. Billy-Joe Cruddup from Tennessee. We thank you for your service. Quick, play the Barry Sanders song and pull up the flag….

    Cheers-

    • Replies: @WhoaWaitaMinute
  20. zard says:

    You have two parties in the USA: the Zionist Party (Republican) & the Communist Party (Democrat). The white wing morons don’t understand they must abandon the Zionist Party & form their own Party. They could call it the ‘American Party’. Even if they did that though, the elections would still be rigged–but at least the ‘patriot’ types would have some sort of organized base or mass movement they themselves would control instead of the Zionists.

    The white wing morons will fill up stadiums to listen to some phony Zionist mountebank, but when a real white leader appears (George Lincoln Rockwell) the white retarded masses ignored him…but hey, if you’re going to travel thousands of miles across the ocean to obliterate pro-white Germany in WWII because some warped handicapped President told you to–what do you expect from a population like that?

  21. Lee says:

    Author stated:

    A major turning-point in my views came when I stumbled across the astonishing work of Pulitzer Prize winner Sydney Schanberg, one of America’s most esteemed Vietnam War journalists and a former top editor at the New York Times. He had spent years compiling a mountain of compelling evidence implicating our national leaders in a monumental act of wartime treachery, with Sen. John McCain being a central figure in covering up that scandal. Yet although this shocking material was released at the height of McCain’s 2008 presidential run, it was entirely ignored by virtually all of our media outlets, liberal and conservative alike.

    So where is this mountain of evidence that Mr Shanberg collected today?

    All of this should be revisited now, when the possibility of a regime change that could put a number of old time Dems out of office or out of power in 2 years is real. (Yes, I’m quite aware that some Reps might have had a hand in the covering up the POW story also)

    I read every article on this site that Unz ever wrote about this subject and saw nothing that couldn’t be explained away by considering who was doing the accusing and why, by sheer coincidence, or an alternate explanation of the details presented as facts.

    IMO it’s high time to bring this POW story back in front of the media and let the chips fall where they may.

  22. Anonymous[229] • Disclaimer says:
    @Legba

    Does anyone else find it odd that those POW/MIA flags started appearing on all the government buildings around the same time?

    Interesting observation. I’ve also seen this symbol (POW/MIA flag) displayed at major financial institutions along with the LGBT, state and U.S. flags.

  23. @Verymuchalive

    “This article is Stuff Old White People Read.”

    Because our generation, unlike yours, was subject to the draft. Imagine, if you can, that you just turned 19 years old. Now the government wants you to report for your physical. You are about to be inducted into the Army whereupon you will receive a few months basic training and then be thrown into the maw of war in a tropical swamp. You have no choice in the matter. You will go or be thrown into prison. Welcome to adulthood in the country of your birth.

    If you live, you may try to pick up the pieces of the life you had lived before you were kidnapped, assuming that is, that your mind and body are not broken beyond repair by land mines or agent orange or the company of men deranged by dislocation from home, twisted by a mission which they knew had no honorable justification.

    You make fun of us, we boomers, but you have no idea of the pressures we faced and the shit we dealt with. But in many ways, your lives are worse. Today’s modern professional army et al. goes hand in glove with the militarization of our police, the arrogant overreach of our intelligence agencies and the unaccountability of our government. Biden’s use of troops to line the streets during his “inauguration” shows that we are in uncharted territory. I wish you luck. You will need it.

    • Thanks: anarchyst
    • Replies: @Verymuchalive
  24. The creation and growth of the POW/MIA hoax was definitively documented in 1979, in the book-level study issued by the National Defense University entitled The Missing Men: Politics and the MIA. Its author, Captain Douglas Clark, of the National War College, had flown three hundred combat missions in Indochina, many as commander of a carrier-based fighter-bomber squadron. He was personally acquainted with a number of the missing airmen, who constituted 81% of US Vietnam-era MIAs.

    In March 1969, DOD for the first time conflated POWs and MIAs in a single category, deceitfully implying that the approximately 1,200 missing men had been positively identified as prisoners of North Vietnam. In an act of astonishing cynicism, at the start of the Paris Peace Talks a further 1,100 names were added by DOD to the list North Vietnam was required to give an accounting of. But these were not missing or prisoners, but men who were known to be dead: they had been previously classified KIA/BNR, killed in action, body not recovered.

    Vietnam was not a conventional war. It was essentially a full-scale CIA psy-op/killing exercise testing strategies on how best to destroy a country. It was a dress rehearsal for the main event, the annihilation of the Soviet Union. The CIA’s Operation Phoenix, “Rural Pacification Program,” and others were the heart of it, experimenting on ways and means to win the loyalty of the masses for a foreign-imposed puppet regime while neutralizing support for their own liberation movement and exterminating incorruptible patriots – while corrupting the US news media to keep public debate in this country within acceptable boundaries. Their failure was humanity’s victory.

    It is so fitting then that POW/MIA continues as a CIA public opinion manipulation experiment, abetted by Hollywood’s revenge porn fantasy flicks of the Reagan era and antigovernment rightists of the sort Lenin termed “useful idiots.” It is another holocaust-with-a-capital-H level deception, which grows every year in the retelling despite having been thoroughly debunked decades ago.

    • Thanks: Brad Anbro, Wizard of Oz
  25. John McCain played a very large role in abandoning those men.

    • Agree: Realist, WhoaWaitaMinute
  26. @Rurik

    Good comment, Rurik, and thanks!

    The December 2004 murder of journalist, Gary Webb, comes to mind. Btw, he wrote “Dark Alliance,” published by San Jose Mercury News.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  27. “On the battlefield, the military pledges to leave no soldier behind. As a nation, let it be our pledge that when they return home, we leave no Veteran behind.”

    Such nauseating BS! More succinctly it should be “Fuck you Soldiers and Veterans! Ha, ha!”

    As Kissinger (back in the news) said, ‘Military men are just dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy.’ (Kissinger claimed he never said it; Sy Hersh said Kissinger lies like other men breathe).

    Foreign Policy is just another way for American/ Globalist Elites and Oligarchs and POLITICIANS to make easy money through the corruption of War. A million dead civilians and tens of thosands of dead and traumatized Veterans is a cheap price to pay for our amoral privateers to get Rich(er)!

  28. Ron Unz says:
    @Zachary Smith

    A search through the document found no mention of the word “reparations”…In the entire Agreement, the Dollar Sign symbol is quite missing.

    There’s absolutely no dispute about those facts, and you can probably the reparations figure quoted in a hundred mainstream history books. Five seconds of Googling located this 2000 article in the NYT:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2000/11/18/opinion/the-forgotten-debt-to-vietnam.html

    However, Kissinger decided to call it “humanitarian assistance,” and from I remember it was actually contained in a secret side agreement, so the media didn’t find out about it for a few years. However, Hanoi didn’t care what America called it—they just wanted the money they’d been promised.

    Before spouting off on these historical matters, it’s important to familiarize yourself on the issue, and reading the articles or books I linked would be a good start.

    • Replies: @Jake Dee
  29. @Ser Arthur Dayne

    The same peace and respect to you, Ser Arthur.

    I want to tell you that your illustrious country, which has given the world so much, will survive and go to greater things.
    I am Christian and respect Islam which I know a little about.
    You are right not to trust those countries. One of them is even known as Perfidious Albion, just regard their bloody history.
    But there are individuals within them.
    This can be a different matter.

    Please safeguard your health by eschewing alcohol,, it is a dangerous and addictive drug. Bible calls it a deceiver.
    Best Wishes.

    • Agree: Kali
    • Replies: @Ser Arthur Dayne
  30. Getaclue says:
    @GMC

    The “real enemy” was stated by Henry Ford long ago…them and their bought off lackeys in “Government”, “Media”, “Medicine” etc….we’re at the end game now as they’ve decided to eliminate the Peons (as was done under Stalin who they got in) and place those not eliminated into Serfdom – as obvious as it is most of the Peons are cheering on their own demise/enslavement under the guise of the “Climate Change” Hoax and Cvirus et al psych operations….

    • Replies: @GMC
  31. Ron Unz says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Just one simple question strikes me as needing to be asked. Jimmy Carter must have known what the allegations were and was not compromised by being of Nixon’s party. He was also given to attempts to behave decently and conscientiously. I can’t see any glib answer without careful detail answering the question why thecPOW issue was not raised by Carter.

    Not really. I very much doubt that Carter or any of this people were aware of the POWs still held by Hanoi—who would have told them? Aside from Kissinger and his closest aides, I’m not even sure how many of the Ford people were even aware of it. The whole situation had been kept as a dark, dreadful whispered secret within the Nixon administration, and after Nixon left, the knowledge probably mostly disappeared. America was focused on Watergate and its aftermath and relations with Vietnam were completely broken after Hanoi conquered the South in early 1975.

    Then after Reagan came in a few years later, the Vietnamese offered to release the surviving POWs in exchange for the money they were owed, and the Reagan people went back and forth on it, but nothing happened. It’s all discussed in great detail in the articles I linked.

  32. James Bamford published the Operation Northwoods document as an appendix is his book about NSA, apropos of nothing, in the summer of 2001. Three months later it became a “conspiracy theory.”

    https://bannedhipster.home.blog/2022/08/10/so-trump-tried-to-stop-the-wars-and-the-generals-refused/

    If the top levels of the Pentagon routinely plan false flag attacks against America, whether or not they put the plans into action, the same mindset would seem amenable to leaving behind the cannon fodder to rot in some hole being tortured.

    LBJ covered up the USS Liberty because he didn’t want to embarrass the Israelis.

    The only surprise is why it surprises us. The Pentagon kills people, that is their job.

    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @Realist
    , @Kali
  33. @Verymuchalive

    When the “Democratic Party” stole the 2020 Presidential Election by massive electoral fraud, were there mass protests, riots even?

    Well, there was that one … I think it was sometime during January 2021, but maybe my memory is failing me.

    • Replies: @Verymuchalive
  34. Have read the book twice, it’s pretty compelling. Knew a gal who was once approached in Saigon, the guy that approached her asked her if she wanted to see some Americans from the war. This was in the late aughts.

  35. @Zachary Smith

    Things written into “agreements” does not mean much either.

  36. anonymous[139] • Disclaimer says:

    media became complicit

    Sounds familiar. This didn’t just start yesterday. Things have only gotten worse in this regard and one wonders how someone like Schanberg would fare today where they don’t just try to censor and muzzle people but go after them in one way or another. A certain percent of the population is considered expendable by higher government officials and these people were now an inconvenience. They couldn’t be allowed to stand in the way of big power politics despite all the staged rah-rah flag waving parades.

    • Replies: @One-off
  37. A related issue rarely discussed is the failed air war over Vietnam that resulted in nearly all these POWs. The effort was to bomb as much as possible no matter the costs. Each year the air war failed, and the solution, more bombing!

  38. Interesting that the Wiki for Sydney Schanberg makes no mention of his role in exposing McCain in the main text, only as an obscure footnote.

  39. Treg says:
    @Ser Arthur Dayne

    Speaking about learning from all sources, even your enemies, I wonder if you’ve been able to follow these three individuals… David Wood, Apostate Profit, and Zakir Naik https://youtu.be/VzkDdy2wWtw

  40. NotaLib says:
    @Ser Arthur Dayne

    Fuck you sand boy! TRUMP 2024

  41. “Regard your soldiers as your children, and they will follow you into the deepest valleys. Look upon them as your own beloved sons, and they will stand by you even unto death.”

    ― Sun Tzu, The Art of War

    A journey to hell, from the horse’s mouth.

    John Tomek, U.S. Marine Corps

    Jerry McNelly, 1st Air Cavalry Division

  42. @24th Alabama

    I was astounded when McCain got the nomination, nobody wanted him. It was the same shenanigans back then and 2020.
    He showed up, with his wife and other politicians, at a rally here in Florida. The guy was such a pos, saw it with my own eyes.

    • Thanks: chris
  43. Realist says:
    @24th Alabama

    The choice between McCain and Obama was the one of the worst American voters ever had to make.

    That is true on the face of it, but there has been no choice for decades.

    • Agree: Notsofast
  44. Phil4Phil says:

    There is nothing that demonstrates the break between the elite and the citizenry like the American P.O.W.s abandoned forever in Vietnam. This is my commentary, published in unz.com last year at this time: https://www.unz.com/article/u-s-p-o-w-s-abandoned-in-nam/

    • Thanks: Chuck Orloski
  45. Realist says:
    @Franz

    The whole of US history since 1945 is summed up in the political attitude “I can’t answer that it’s a matter of national security.” At least before then you could get answer, usually a lie.

    Can anyone imagine this happening to the guys in WWI or WWII. No. Why? Because before the present era our government had to declare a state of war before an army could march. Little things mean a lot. After we let Truman get away with Korea, the rule of law left Washington.

    Your observations are astute. Those who are motivated by power-lust in this country took advantage of the position the United States attained after WWII…the most powerful entity, in every way, on earth.

    We are now living under what seventy-six years of power grabs and wealth accumulation have wrought. Those who desire control over us lessers are about to see their dream come true. They will not be easily denied.

  46. Rurik says:
    @BannedHipster

    the same mindset would seem amenable to leaving behind the cannon fodder to rot in some hole being tortured.

    the people who rule us today are the same people who plotted and carried out the fire-bombing of Dresden. They didn’t burn those mostly women and children alive for any strategic advantage, they did it out of pure racial sadism. The city was full of Eastern European refugees (mostly women and children) fleeing the Red Army rapists. Utterly defenseless, completely harmless white people, IOW.

    As I began to comprehend the meaning of Dresden, I’ve began to comprehend, (insofar as I’m able) the nature of these people, (and their shabby goys, like McCain).

    why it surprises us. The Pentagon kills people, that is their job.

    Dresden was one of the first acts of The Pentagon. There was no military reason for its destruction.

    But at least they could putatively claim those women and children were the enemy. Not so the American soldiers left to rot in Vietnam. In fact, betraying the men who were sacrificing their lives in service to the Pentagon and U.S. government, only to be forsaken as too inconvenient and expensive to save from a hellish fate, really goes to the heart of the nature of our government, and men like John McCain.

    I suspect that if John McCain were to have to face those men, that his demeanor would be one of aloof, belligerent arrogance, and he’d no-doubt lose his temper at the very insinuation that anything he ever did could be even hinted at untoward. Not because those men were betrayed, and suffered unimaginably. And not because McCain was directly responsible, but because a man like McCain considered himself so far exalted above the average American, that anything he did was justifiable by the very fact that is was him, John McCain, son of an admiral, a “war hero” and “statesman” and “maverick” and morally unassailable, immigrant-loving humanist’, that was all he could do to temper his contempt for the average American racist and anti-semite ingrates who refused to appreciate his singular greatness. The same anti-semitic ingrates like the Liberty survivors that had the vile temerity to question his father’s, and his own cover-up of the USS Liberty.

    For someone like McCain, it wasn’t the Vietcong who were the enemy. It wasn’t the Zionists murdering American sailors or the flood of invaders pouring over the borders of Arizona who needed law enforcement, but rather the American people whose loved ones languished in pits, being tortured because they were Americans, who were the real enemies of John McCain.

    It is perhaps telling the way Biden was gushing his love and admiration for the treasonous Bloodstain

    Joe Biden: “I’m a Democrat and I love John McCain”

    vs. the white-hot mutual hatred between Trump and McCain

    • Thanks: René Fries
  47. Chebyshev says:

    The media, to their chagrin, missed the Nixon administraton abandoning hundreds of American POWs.

    And more recently, even though they had spent a couple of years falsely accusing Trump of colluding with Russia, and had condemned him for seeking information about Hunter Biden’s activities in Ukraine, the mainstream media missed rogue members of Trump’s administration launching the pandemic.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  48. But whoi can believe such a conspiracy theory. I mean thousands would have to know about it. It would be im[ossibl;e to shut them all up. The US free press would stop at nothing to learn the truth and tell the Americam people about it.

    Right.

    Anyone who believes that’s how the world works is inhabiting a fool’s paradise.

    I confess I originally disbelieved claims that POW’s had been left behind since I saw no obvious purpose for the Vietnamese to keep them. That is, until I learned about eh quid pro quo of aid for returning the POWs. That’s when the real story clicked. It’s always necessary to look for what doesn’t fit into the official story about what happened, and then follow where that leads.

    Unz clearly shows how the official story will be maintained to keep government misdeeds covered up and the public misled about how they are being screwed.

    That’s the real story.

    The Viet MIA’s paid the price in silence that our cowardly and supine press made sure would remain untold.

    • Replies: @Badger Down
  49. Rurik says:
    @Chuck Orloski

    Thank you Chuck.

    Yes, Webb who committed ‘suicide’ by shooting himself in the head, twice.

    Also Udo Ulfkotte, and likely Andrew Brietbart, and too many others to list.

  50. Chris Moore says: • Website
    @Verymuchalive

    This article is Stuff Old White People Read. Schanberg was 82 when he died in 2016, and Ron Unz is now in his 60s. It has little resonance in present day America. Even if the scandal were revealed in its entirety – it won’t – it would be largely ignored and quickly forgotten. Americans, as an UR columnist repeatedly says, are an insouciant people. When the “Democratic Party” stole the 2020 Presidential Election by massive electoral fraud, were there mass protests, riots even? Indeed not. If something similar had happened in France, for instance, there certainly would be.

    Old narcissistic White people who have ignored the ((Jewish)) elephant in the living room since forever. And the Brown narcissists are now doing the same thing.

    A civilization that ignores its greatest enemy stabbing away at its underbelly is going to cease to exist. That includes France.

    Have you seen Paris lately?

    • Replies: @Verymuchalive
  51. @Jimmy1969

    FYI, I have a ham operator acquaintance, who lives in Vietnam. He shuttles between his residence in Vietnam and some other country, I forget which (Cambodia? Laos? Myanmar?) Anyway, he is an ex-pat and he works for some NGO, trying to locate remains & whereabouts of G.I.s – he told me in an e-mail that he is treated very well by everyone and that he will never come back to the United States.

    Brad Anbro, N9EN (my ham radio callsign)

  52. @24th Alabama

    The choice between McCain and Obama was the one of the worst American voters ever had to make.

    Yep, voted for Chuck Baldwin that day.

    • Agree: Hibernian
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  53. One-off says:
    @anonymous

    “one wonders how someone like Schanberg would fare today”

    Ask Julian Assange.

  54. Realist says:
    @BannedHipster

    LBJ covered up the USS Liberty because he didn’t want to embarrass the Israelis.

    The only surprise is why it surprises us. The Pentagon kills people, that is their job.

    Yes, indeed.

  55. But whoi can believe such a conspiracy theory. I mean thousands would have to know about it. It would be im[ossibl;e to shut them all up. The US free press would stop at nothing to learn the truth and tell the Americam people about it.

    Right.

    Anyone who believes that’s how the world works is inhabiting a fool’s paradise.

    I confess I originally disbelieved claims that POW’s had been left behind since I saw no obvious purpose for the Vietnamese to keep them. That is, until I learned about the quid pro quo of aid for returning the POWs. That’s when the real story clicked. It’s always necessary to look for what doesn’t fit into the official story about what happened, and then follow where that leads.

    Unz clearly shows how the official story will be maintained to keep government misdeeds covered up and the public misled about how they are being screwed.

    It, however, goes deeper than that. Equally compelling accounts can be generated to discredit the claims that POPW’s have been kept behind, and evidence produced to suibstantiate it and refute contrary evidence. And without access to evidence that incontyovertibly proves one and disproves the other version, people can endlessly engage in debates about the subjects as they run in circles after evidence and reach conclusions drawn from incomplete facts.

    That’s the real story.

    The Viet MIA’s paid the price in silence that our cowardly and supine press made sure would remain untold.

  56. Mr. Unz, I was a 18 yr old Marine PFC in Vietnam — June 1965 until July 1966 — that could have been captured at least 5 or 6 times and could have been one of these poor souls. I wouldn’t have made it. Thank you for remembering.

  57. Kali says:
    @BannedHipster

    The only surprise is why it surprises us. The Pentagon kills people, that is their job.

    Speaking personally, I’ve not detected an ounce of surprise in anyones reaction to this story, only objection to, and disgust at, the treachery of the state against its people.

    Regards,
    Kali.

  58. @ThreeCranes

    I am not making fun of you. I am not American and am not a “boomer “, but middle-aged. However, even I can see how America ( it is not the United States anymore ) is utterly changed since 1970 – and for the worst. Yesterday, as they say, is another country, and, sadly, this is yesterday’s scandal. It’s relevance is to another country.

    The biggest scandal since Pearl Harbor has been 9/11. The latter was created by the complicity, collusion and active direction by elements of the US Deep State, MOSSAD and other Zionist groups.
    The POW scandal was very limited by comparison. However, even now the relevant US documents on Pearl Harbor are not available to the public. Indeed, they may well have been destroyed. That may be the fate of documents on the POW scandal.

    • Agree: Chuck Orloski
  59. Did the Jewish subverse-wave catcher Hillel Schamberg (shame mountain) ever do any reporting on Jewish atrocities? Did this Pulitzer report about the Jew Kissinger being the driving force behind that evil war too? Did the Hillel report that every war is Jewish?
    Was the Hillel on side when Israel attacked America and the JewS gvt. sided with Tell a Thief aka Tel Aviv?

  60. @Carlton Meyer

    I remember reading somewhere that there was a greater tonnage of bombs dropped during the Vietnam war than in all of World War II.

  61. @Sir Launcelot Canning

    Same here and agreed with 24th Alabama.

  62. Some POWs might still be alive in Vietnam… as alive as Agent Orange is…

    The Jewmerican nabel gazing is … what it is: A few hundred POWs versus millions of Vietnamese killed, Vietnam completely devastated for centuries…, Vietnamese scattered all over the world. JewS calls it “collateral damage” and America’s thinkers write miles of books about a few hundred POWs. Write miles of books about Agent Orange today – the daily work of Agent Orange – another “American legacy”?!

    Do you remember Laos (Yankee Chaos), Thailand (Yankee brothel), Cambodia (can the bodies), even Burma – Myanmar (mine is Mary); how JewS fucked and is still fucking the whole peninsula – the lands of Buddha – still today?! Vietnam ist still threatened by Jewmerica. The JewS grand standing in the South China Sea started with grand standing against Vietnam the moment Vietnam wanted to participate in trade (e.g. Jewmerica forced Nam to buy unsuitable trans…). Right now Vietnam is offering rice to the world (with dioxin?) in the darkness of famine …and China and Thailand are holding joint military drills… Russia and North Korea are moving closer…
    Today Jewmerica is running yet another war in the middle of Europe and killing its “own” POWs:

    May it be the last war Jewmerica is leading.

    • Agree: JR Foley
    • Replies: @HeebHunter
  63. @Sir Launcelot Canning

    A few hundred unarmed civilians are let into the Capitol building by the police. They wander round the chamber, taking photographs. No damage to the building is done and they leave shortly thereafter.
    However, a Capitol policeman, out of pure malice, shoots and kills an unarmed woman civilian, but even that doesn’t provoke a violent reaction from the small crowd.

    So, no mass protests, or riots even.

  64. I’ve read at least one of your long articles on this MIA cover-up before, and you’ve got me interested in reading the rest.

    The man I’ve dubbed Juan McAmnesty for his later traitorous behavior seems to have a long record of skeletons in the closet. Regarding the ’08 election, do you think this might be why the Lyin’ Press regarded this “maverick” of a man so highly (until the general election, of course)? Did they just want a, OK, ANOTHER, guy that they could blackmail into doing the work of the Deep State.*

    They say “don’t speak ill of the dead”, but for this guy, I make an exception. He was a real scumbag. (That’s from my knowledge even without your and Shanberg’s story of his part in purposefully leaving these men behind in southeast Asia.)

    .

    * No matter what anybody has to say about the flaws of Donald Trump, I don’t think he’s very likely to be subject to blackmail. We know he is a philanderer, playboy, what-have-you already.

  65. LP5 says:
    @Verymuchalive

    Duranty – a standard of measurement with 60 years as the current marker.

    Subject to adjustment based on political trends.

    How long until we hear some truth about XYZ matter? About .8 – 1.2 Durantys.

    There is some hope that dedicated internet researchers, including those awakened to past excesses, can reduce that time of ignorance and obfuscation well below 1 Duranty.

    p.s., there is no current estimate on how long the New York Times will stall other past errors periods of journalistic malpractice unfortunate incidents when mistakes were made.

    • Replies: @Verymuchalive
  66. @Chris Moore

    Yes, I’ve been to Paris recently. France has all of the problems that afflict the Collective West, but indigenous French have shown much greater resistance than most, including White Americans. Americans’ reactions to the 2020 steal have been supine by comparison.

  67. Notsofast says:
    @au Johnny

    no man left behind, my ass. john mccain and john kerry are the very embodiment of the two headed neocon uniparty that insures that the truth never sees the light of day.

  68. MGB says:
    @Carlton Meyer

    Carlton, have you read ‘Among the Dead Cities’? A pretty persuasive argument that area bombing has never been effective, or moral.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  69. @Treg

    Zakir Naik

    Zakir Naik is an extreme Wahhabi, who hates Shia with every vein in his body!

    Nugent

  70. @Arthur MacBride

    I never doubt about what u said about the individuals all around the world. Every person’s mindset and beliefs depend on where he was born and should be considered as such.
    I thank u for ur kind religious advise my friend, I do the pot and not alcohol, but I hear u all the same and gonna try harder. Using the term hungover was beacause of my weak english uknow.

  71. ko says:

    For what it’s worth…I was in Vientiane for a year in 2012 and while there met several aged American GI’s. We met and talked on occasion, and they all said undoubtedly there were hundreds, if not thousands, of pow’s left behind. They also said many others, like themselves, chose to stay behind. And as pleasant a place as Vientiane is, and Laos altogether, I couldn’t blame them. The Lao haven’t forgot about the decades of bombs America dropped on them.

    • Replies: @Carlton Meyer
  72. Wild Man says:

    Something that I have noticed about the Trump phenomenon, is that the Orange Man doesn’t insinuate something juicily confrontational, without having his back-up empirical evidence for such claim, in his back pocket (the leftist promotion of the idea of ‘Trump as the worst of the worst of the liars’ is a compete joke …. all he has ever been in that respect is a self-serving embellisher, …. much much different than an outright liar, like Joe Biden, for instance).

    Think about that for a moment. If Trump did not have this quality, could he even have prevailed, in the limited-way, as much as he did, with the mainstream cultural controllers always wanting to end him, ‘right here, right now’, at every turn? Impossible – right? When your enemy controls the lying milieu, one can’t in turn lie, or one will be crucified, with crushed influence, for evermore – right?

    Trump denounced McCain as traitor to the Vietnam POWs. We don’t actually need Unz to tell us so, because Trump already did. And Trump’s track record, with respect to accuracy around juicily confrontational insinuations, is much much better than Unz’s (even though Unz, to his credit, seems to eventually come around, but sometimes, painfully, this is decades later).

  73. anon[158] • Disclaimer says:

    Wow a leftist for the New York Times finally got around to the POW issue in 2008, when McCain was running for el Presidente? Why that’s just gosh darn amazing! Whoa there, where can I buy that book and hunker-junker down for a good read about pasty-white republicans. Read it on a Sunday, talk it online on Monday.
    Oh please, it’s just getting sickening now. There was never any anti-war movement then either, it was anti-Bush/anti-Republican protests and as soon as Obama got in all opposition to overseas adventures faded. The left is so transparent they should be white, especially all that privilege.

  74. @Verymuchalive

    It has little resonance in present day America. Even if the scandal were revealed in its entirety – it won’t – it would be largely ignored and quickly forgotten.

    No, Netflix will buy the rights to a Weinstein/Friedlander film about how the POWs were all marginalized soldiers of color who while captured worked on nuclear fission and talked about Emmett Till. One of the soldiers will die trying to escape when a white bounty hunter puts his knee on his neck for almost 9 minutes.

  75. @Wizard of Oz

    Jimmy Carter was installed by the New York Banking cartel and he didn’t order toilet paper without Brzinsky’s approval.

    After he occasionally emitted the odd pang from his conscience but even then forget about any Jimmy stuff. Some taints are more permanent than skunk musk X one million.

    • Agree: Notsofast
  76. Anonymous[387] • Disclaimer says:
    @Legba

    The need for an MIA symbol was originated by the wives of the missing, including Mrs. Sybil Stockdale. The idea for the flag came from Mrs. Mary Hoff. The flag was designed by and is manufactured by Anin Flagmakers, and produced in various factories in Ohio, Pennsylvania and Virginia.
    If you are actually sincerely interested in learning about the origin and history of this flag, may I direct your attention to The Story of the POW/MIA Flag, an article originally appearing in Vietnam magazine. You could also contact the National League of POW/MIA Families to get any information you require.

  77. well here’s why the matter gets no traction,

    “In the troubled aftermath of America’s military defeat and the Nixon resignation, our entire country sought to forget Vietnam, and neither elected officials nor journalists were eager to revisit the issue, let alone investigate one of the war’s dirtiest secrets. ”

    If you repeat the nonsensical incorrect mantra that the US lost the conflict, you reinforce nearly every matter the US would like to forget it. Now whether we we win or lose a conflict, we should face it head on — but the US victory in Vietnam is clouded with so much nonsense and misery that wading through the morass takes a much tougher citizenry than we have on line today with its press for expediency.

    But you have hit square on the matter of how we treat and repatriate our fighting service members. Fortunately the casualty rates from our last two major excursions are comparatively light and are not loaded with the anti-war rhetoric of the Vietnam War. Though for all of their whining, the same antiwar screechers of Vietnam have been all to happy to dance needless wars for more than twenty years and now in the face of a real threat — tiptoe as shriveled prunes.

    agree with this perspective and only the perspective that our attention to the POWs and missing in action of Vietnam is painfully egregious.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  78. Mark Hunter says: • Website

    You might like this book review by David Martin (DC Dave):
    Finding David: An American Wife Betrayed by Her Government

  79. @ko

    The Lao haven’t forgot about the decades of bombs America dropped on them.

    Few Americans even know about our massive bombing of Laos. Thousands of Americans served in Laos under CIA cover, yet the US government denied it, and the bombings. It became impossible to ask about Americans missing in Laos since the US government insisted none were ever there. Perhaps Vietnam refused to release Americans captured in Laos unless the US government admitted to its illegal war there.

  80. @LP5

    The half-life of a Duranty is 60 years, after which even the New York Times can’t deny that the nucleus of lies is breaking up. Given his background in Physical Science, I’m surprised Mr Unz hasn’t mentioned this before.

  81. Jake Dee says:

    Mr Unz, thank you for your report, it always has something worth reading and you personally have many interesting theories. some of them excellent. However, your Vietnam MIA/POW theories (with or without Senator McCain or Sydney Schanberg) is not excellent, quite the contrary, it is utterly ludicrous.
    The massive flaw in this story is that it requires the full cooperation (or collusion) of the Vietnamese government, not only in the 1970s but right up to today. Why would they do that ? What’s in it for them ?
    Your theory requires the Vietnamese commanders, who had just recently defeated the world’s most powerful military, to be not only totally evil but also totally moronic.
    If Hanoi held back POWs as leverage in case Washington reneged on the deal and then Washington did renege on the deal, why didn’t Hanoi use that leverage ?
    Even if the Vietnamese thought they weren’t going to get any money, prisoners have massive publicity value (it can hardly be called propaganda if the story is perfectly true). Isn’t an important part of the John McCain story that he was used by Hanoi in exactly this way ?
    The Vietnamese are not fools, they will do what’s best for them, and while the inability to see things from the opposition’s perspective is not a uniquely American flaw, it is a very common one.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  82. Jake Dee says:
    @Ron Unz

    Mr Unz, you still have to explain why the Vietnamese didn’t use the leverage they had when the secret deal was broken.
    Please refer to my comment below

  83. @Treg

    There is a possibility that I was wrong about ur comment and you didnt mean what I first thought u did Treg. I now think that u might just wanted to mention some anti Islam commentators to me. So if that is the case I sincerely beg ur forgiveness for my misjudgement sir 🙏

  84. chris says:

    Didn’t realize how fortuitous Schanberg’s journalism was for Ron’s own change of direction, even as he (Schanberg) had missed the mark in saving the POWs.

    However, in what regards this conclusion, I can think of at least one other possibility to the one offered here,

    Syd had always believed that the American media was simply scared of his story, with its troubling implications, and I tend to agree with him.

    What (at least) I learned since 2016, is that:

    Once it’s down to 2 candidates, there is a major effort coordinated with the “intelligence community” not to discredit one of the candidates, in order not to expose the election for the fraud it really is. The Hillary and Hunter laptops being the prime examples.

    For that reason alone, in 2008, it seems very likely that they would have colluded to protect McCain in order to “save ‘our’ democracy“ and have Obama win against an uncompromised candidate.

    So maybe it wasn’t so much the story of the POWs themselves that was too big but McCain himself who was being protected. McCain after all, was like the deep throat of the deep state.

    • Thanks: Rurik
    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  85. Anonymous[583] • Disclaimer says:

    Of course the CIA regime would renege on its agreement and save some money by letting grunts die like livestock in VC labor camps. But CIA turned that treachery to its advantage by blackmailing McCain. Langley forced McCain to deny the troops he left behind, not three times but like a hundred times. And Langley held that over McCain’s head until they put him out of his misery with ANX A2 euthanasia.

    McCain might have been CIA’s most securely blackmailed legislator. He’s up there with Foley and Hastert. When Langley said jump, McCain didn’t ask impertinent questions like, How High? he flapped his floppy manionette arms and tried to fly.

    CIA has every US legislator securely blackmailed or bribed. They had KCIA (“Tongsun Park”) bribing them until Mossad (“AIPAC”) took over. They had Franklin and Craig Spence and Epstein blackmailing them. They had ABSCAM dotted-line report in FBI bribing them.

    The real lesson of the POW is not that Langley fucks America over. It’s that Langley fucks America over and makes VIPs complicit in its greatest crimes for positive control.

    • Replies: @anarchyst
  86. @Ron Unz

    I am not aware of Carter ever acting in a unethical way as President but he was a lamb in Machiavelli’s
    swamp, and did not understand how the game is played.

    As for Ford,despite his reputation for being dense one does not become Speaker of the House without
    social skills of the manipulative kind,so my guess is that he probably knew of the abandoned POW’s
    in Vietnam.
    If anyone has researched this please share your knowledge.

  87. Ron Unz says:
    @chris

    So maybe it wasn’t so much the story of the POWs themselves that was too big but McCain himself who was being protected. McCain after all, was like the deep throat of the deep state.

    Sure, I agree with you 100% regarding the 2008 election. McCain was just too important an “asset” to be sacrificed. I also noted that not a whiff of this story came out around the time of McCain’s death:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-john-mccain-jeffrey-epstein-and-pizzagate/

    Obviously, no was no longer personally important at that point, but revealing the truth at that late date might have led the public to notice the strings on our political puppets.

    However, the original POW story came out in the 1980s and early 1990s, long before McCain was at all important, and it was entirely suppressed by the MSM. So I think the reasons were along the lines of what Schanberg suggested.

    • Replies: @Chuck Orloski
    , @chris
  88. Nat X says:

    The slants killed my father at LZ Baldy so fuck them. Having said that its yts fault for drafting him to fight in a bullshit war. Come the day of the rope military yts will be shown no quarter.

  89. Ron Unz says:
    @Jake Dee

    If Hanoi held back POWs as leverage in case Washington reneged on the deal and then Washington did renege on the deal, why didn’t Hanoi use that leverage ?

    It’s not very complicated—they were still hoping to get the money they were owed. In fact, during the 1980s they directly approached the Reagan administration and offered to return the surviving POWs for the promised money. Just read the articles I’ve linked, and all the details are there. In fact, a Secret Service agent offered to testify under oath about the conversations he’d overheard.

    Vietnam was a poor country, the war was over, and Hanoi didn’t see any value in “embarrassing” America. Also, their government had claimed they’d returned all the POWs, so they would have been equally embarrassed. They just wanted to get the money they’d been promised in the Peace Agreement.

    • Replies: @Jake Dee
  90. @Ron Unz

    Loved this, Ron, and thanks:

    “Obviously, no was no longer personally important at that point, but revealing the truth at that late date might have led the public to notice the strings on our political puppets.’

  91. BubbaTuff says:

    Too bad John McCain wasn’t left behind, but the Vietnamese sent him back to get revenge on the USA.

    • LOL: HT
  92. @Zachary Smith

    Just how would the US “contribute … to postwar reconstruction of the Democratic Republic of Viet-Nam…” without cash? The Viet Cong sure as hell didn’t want them physically in the country.

    • Replies: @Zachary Smith
  93. Jake Dee says:
    @Ron Unz

    Sorry Mr Unz it just doesn’t work.
    Vietnam being a poor country gave them more incentive to squeeze Washington by going public with the whole story not less. If announcing to the world that they had been secretly holding POWs for years would be a terrible embarrassment for them, then that just shows why they wouldn’t have made such a secret deal in the first place.
    If holding prisoners in secret is no leverage at all then why hold them in secret ? If prisoners held in secret were ever released then the secret would be revealed, so they could NEVER be released without embarrassing Hanoi. Again there is no incentive for Vietnam to enter such a deal.

    • Replies: @anarchyst
  94. HT says:

    Another Military Industrial Complex war that no one wanted but that our corrupt government put us in.

    • Agree: WhoaWaitaMinute
  95. chris says:
    @Ron Unz

    Yeah, I obviously have to agree with your logic, Schanberg‘s article (and re-printings) pre-dates McCain’s 2008 campaign and has stayed suppressed irrespective of it.

    That campaign probably ensured that the story would ultimately be buried with McCain – for the time being anyway.

  96. @Curmudgeon

    Just how would the US “contribute … to postwar reconstruction of the Democratic Republic of Viet-Nam…” without cash?

    I suppose that sending White Missionaries might have been one option. Or the assignment of several thousand Peace Corps types.

    Getting serious, even halting the US sanctions on Vietnam would have been something really substantial, but that didn’t happen. Nixon was a hell of a lot smarter than Trump, but not a bit more honest. Consider this part of the letter he wrote to Prime Minister of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam. Feb. 1, 1973

    https://www.nytimes.com/1977/05/20/archives/texts-of-announcement-by-state-department-and-two-nixon-letters.html

    Key part after all the marvelous proposals:

    Addenda

    Understanding Regarding Economic Reconstruction Program:

    It is understood that the recommendations of the Joint Economic Commission mentioned in the President’s note to the Prime Minister will be implemented by each member in accordance with its own constitutional provisions.

    Meaning Congress would have to appropriate any money for the project, and there was a snowball’s chance in Hell of that happening. The mood of the time was ugly.

    https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.UUkdpqq5rMInKl4DfDpVBAAAAA%26pid%3DApi&f=1

    Vietnam ended up with no “reparations”. To my knowledge neither has Iraq, Libya, or Syria. Any and all money which ought to have gone to the latter three has been funneled instead to the outfit which instigated those wars – the Apartheid state.

  97. chris says:
    @24th Alabama

    Superfically forthright and charming,he was at his core a mean-spirited,unprincipled political hack …

    Interestingly, the spitting image of our current, great leader (before he was mummified).

    Also, you forgot to mention stupidity, which is another defining characteristic of these lackeys. As people with the faintest sense of morality, will simply not demean themselves to such a level.

  98. sulu says:

    Abandoned P.O.W.’s? The chess master only cares about his pawns when they are still on the board. When they have been captured they are of no more use to him and consequently are of no consequence.

    Many years ago I asked my Psychology professor about the typical life of sociopaths. He told me the stupid ones end up in prison and the smart ones end up in government. The truth of that statement becomes more obvious with every passing day.

    Sulu

    • Thanks: Chuck Orloski
    • Replies: @WorkingClass
  99. Jakie says:

    Ron,

    Thank you for the courage to stand and speak truth as much as can be born at present.

    This article in particular resonates…

    But it is missing closure.

    It apparently exists esoterically….and makes a much bigger stab in the American Republics heart than can be imagined…until now. That is, after having experienced the ongoing & the last 2.5 years of mass c19 terror & mass c19 mRNA injection murder campaign…by the hidden hands.

    As unbearable & unbelievable as it is to deal with the realization there’s anyone being able to do this…they can certainly do this other crime.

    Remote Viewing. Far Sight.

    Time is no barrier.

    CW3 Joe McMoneagle, America’s Remote Viewer 001 saw what happened to the remaining surviving Americans held in captivity in Viet Nam…during one of his RV sessions focused on this issue. He documented it in one of his first books.

    They were all executed IAW a secret agreement between the Communist Vietnamese leadership…and whatever power holds the American Republic in Thrall.

    Your article explains the ultimate motivations behind this monstrous crime.

    Sickeningly…we outsourced some of our industry to communist Viet Nam after that…even built several high tech Intel factories there….closed here.

    So, the Baksheesh …maybe originally promised in order to free our folks held there…. In the end, was provided in a different form to eliminate them.

    • Replies: @W
  100. anarchyst says:
    @Anonymous

    Let’s not forget the fact that John McCains “daddy” Admiral John S. McCain Sr. was a major part of the “cover-up” of the deliberate israeli act of war committed on June 8, 1967 with the deliberate attack on the USS Liberty (AGTR-5). The “apple” most certainly did not fall far from the tree”. John McCain used his daddy’s influence to get him out of major scrapes and into positions that he did not deserve.
    Senator John S. McCain was a major f#ckup while in the Navy, did a “wet start” on his aircraft as a stunt and managed to kill other Naval personnel. His “daddy” got him off the ship in the nick of time to keep him from receiving deserved retribution from his shipmates. That incident was covered up as well.
    As a POW, he was known as “songbird” for collaborating with the enemy and even made propaganda radio broadcasts as well. He received medical treatment above and beyond what other POWs received.
    As an aside, Admiral George S. Morrison, (the father of Jim Morrison of the musical group “The Doors”) vehemently protested McCain’s inaction and cover up. Admiral Morrison wanted severe retribution against israel for the attack but was unsuccessful in convincing Admiral McCain and others…
    Admiral Morrison was never promoted after that…

    • Replies: @Lee
  101. anarchyst says:
    @Jake Dee

    Not true…
    In Asian countries, enemy combatant prisoners can be kept alive for decades with minimal effort. It doesn’t cost much to keep POWs alive, as long as they are moving from place to place.
    Even after the cessation of hostilities in Korea (truce, not settlement) American POWs were kept in captivity, some with technical expertise being sent to the Soviet Union.
    As to Vietnam POWs that were abandoned, from time-to-time reporters observed non-asian types being moved around, definitely out-of-place compared to their captors. Satellite observations and “circle-k” distress signals were seen eve decades after the conclusion of the war.

    • Troll: mulga mumblebrain
  102. @24th Alabama

    The choice between McCain and Obama was the one of the worst American voters ever had to make.

    How about the choice between a moron with Alzheimer and a moron without in 2020?

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @Rurik
  103. Lee says:
    @anarchyst

    Anar said:

    Senator John S. McCain was a major f#ckup while in the Navy, did a “wet start” on his aircraft as a stunt and managed to kill other Naval personnel.

    A-4s didn’t have an afterburner so JM couldn’t have “wet started” his aircraft.

    “A-4 jets flew at subsonic speeds and were not equipped with afterburners. According to the Military Analysis Network site maintained by the Federation of American Scientists, the A-4 was powered by a “Single, Pratt & Whitney, J-52-P-408A non-afterburning, turbojet engine.”

    https://www.factcheck.org/2008/09/mccains-plane-crashes/

    • Replies: @acementhead
  104. @au Johnny

    McCain’s father was not a senator. He was the commander of US naval forces in the Pacific.

  105. Mike Tre says:

    I’m too big for you, Ron.

  106. I was 20 years old in 1965 when I was conscripted into the U.S. Army. Soon the Vietnam war will pass from living memory.

    Imperial American crime and corruption are nothing new. Only now are outside forces finding the means and the leadership to resist.

    I got here a few years before the Boomers. I can tell you the Country was already fucked up when they got here.

    We Americans are witnessing the fall of the American Empire, the last of the European Empires, from the belly of the beast. There will be a time of want and lawlessness. On the other side of that will be an opportunity to build something new.

  107. anon[830] • Disclaimer says:

    No one was left behind. Anyone still there after the war wanted to stay. This is just racism against Asians; they’re so barbaric they won’t free POW’s after the war ends. The US government should never have allowed vets to fly that racist POW /MIA flag on government property. “Never forget how much we hate those people” was the message. Everything changed after 9-11 when that became well, quaint nostalgia, all is forgiven, as they found bigger fish to fry, another group to hate on steroids.

    • Agree: acementhead
    • Troll: Hibernian
  108. @AnonfromTN

    Have you considered the evidence (ABC Radio National links) that I have posted a couple of times about his “interiorised stuttering” as the reason he appears lost for words and, generally, “slow Joe”?

    Words Fail Us – in defence of disfluency – ABC Radio National” https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/latenightlive/words-fail-us-in-defence-of-disfluency/101317212

    I hope for all our sakes that Jonty Claypole is right about that.

  109. @Ron Unz

    Thank you, though I am still left with the question why would Vietnam bot have made sure that Carter knew so it could get money out of the US?

    Another puzzle for me is that, as far as I know, not one of UR’s tens of thousands of readers has come out as one who was privy to discussions in the MSM or amongst political opponents of what Schanberg had raised about McCain and who, probably just as comparatively unimportant fly on the wall, can shed light on possibly innocent enough reasons for the silence. Is that not very strange?

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  110. Rurik says:
    @AnonfromTN

    The choice between McCain and Obama was the one of the worst American voters ever had to make.

    How about the choice between a moron with Alzheimer and a moron without in 2020?

    how many wars for Israel did Trump start?

    You of all people should know that the neocon war in Ukraine is a war for Israel/GJS. Started in large part by McCain, just like McCain started the war with Russia vs. Georgia. McCain was the worst human being ever to betray every tenet of human decency that ever disgraced the people and honor of the U.S.. And Obama was almost as bad. A vote for McCain was a vote to bomb Iran into the stone age. Period. And we all knew it. In fact, it was in all our faces. Bomb, bomb, bomb- bomb bomb Iran, heehee hee hee.

    If I were to judge a president or a congress-varmint of the last several decades, my criteria would be ‘How many people did they gratuitously slaughter for Israel?

    And by doing so, advance their own personal status and prospects vis-a-vis ZOG. Tony Bliar as mass-murderer, treasonous liar and prospective president of the EU, and so forth.

    Based on this metric, the worst scum are Dubya and Bliar and Cheney. Next comes Obama and Hillary. The people who’re most guilty of betraying their nations, and millions of innocent victims in nations bombed and destroyed and sent plunging into hells on earth, all to please ZOG. The only reason McCain isn’t there, is because the American people repudiated the vicious POS, and held their noses and voted for the black supremacist commie instead.

    Reagan was a worthless POS, but he pulled the troops out of Lebanon after the ZOG false flag bombing of the Marines barracks, so Reagan, based on my metric, wasn’t as bad.

    Trump assassinated, (in the most cowardly and disgraceful way imaginable) that general, but at least he didn’t start any new wars for ZOG. We can’t say the same of Biden, and his zio-war on Russia.

    So based on at least my metric, the 2020 election wasn’t as injurious, disastrous, treasonous, or iniquitous as the 2008.

    At least no new wars were started, and for me, (at least) that’s really become the final criteria.

    That’s why I support, (at least the rhetoric), of Tusli.

    • Agree: WorkingClass
  111. @EliteComminc.

    Interesting that you question the idea that the US was defeated in Vietnam. I think Jerry Pournelle was pretty hot on the failure of Congress to keep up air support for the South Vietnamese. And a Latin American professor friend points out that by 1975 the USin Cietnam had made a big contribution to win ing the Cold War. (Think of the alternative I suppose).

    • Replies: @mulga mumblebrain
  112. @sulu

    He told me the stupid ones end up in prison and the smart ones end up in government.

    What makes the wicked so strong? They have no conscionce. The sourse of unnecessary suffering among humans is human nature.

    • Agree: sulu
  113. @Ron Unz

    Also Ron, please answer Observator’s comment.

  114. So what happened to the POWs? Are some still alive in the ‘Carmnist hell-hole’? Did none manage to escape, or be photographed in all the long years? Why has the South Vietnamese emigre’ community in the West not used this ‘scandal’ to raise antipathy to Vietnam, so they can dream their revanchist fantasies of returning in triumph to their home, like their fascist colleagues in Ukraine, the Baltics, Croatia etc, have done? Paint me 1000% sceptical.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
  115. @Wizard of Oz

    Yeah, Wizz-if only the Holy USA and its stooges slaughtered another two, three, whatever million, to do ‘God’s work’ in Vietnam, maybe our puppet regime of pimps, torturers, drug runners, madams and Mafiosi might have triumphed. Keep licking those Yankee jack-boots.

    • Troll: Wizard of Oz
  116. @Carlton Meyer

    The air war didn’t fail. It accomplished the two great imperatives of US policy. First it made billions for the MICetc, and second it killed millions of people, murder being the one true religion of the USA.

    • Replies: @Carlton Meyer
    , @Blodgie
  117. Ron Unz says:
    @Observator

    The creation and growth of the POW/MIA hoax was definitively documented in 1979, in the book-level study issued by the National Defense University entitled The Missing Men: Politics and the MIA. Its author, Captain Douglas Clark, of the National War College

    Well, I’m extremely skeptical that it will change my mind, but I’ll take a look at it. I don’t recall any of the major anti-POW texts even mentioning it, so I doubt it was very persuasive.

    What about the transcript of the Hanoi Politburo meeting found in the Soviet archives in which the Vietnamese leaders explicitly say they’re only going to return half the POWs until they get their money? What about their diplomatic efforts to trade POWs for money with the Reagan Administration in the 1980s? Schanberg’s 2008 article has an absolute mountain of evidence that would be very difficult to overcome, and Hendon’s 600 page book published in 2007, an additional mountain.

    As I told Schanberg, the whole issue seems about as open-and-shut as anything that hasn’t been officially blessed by the MSM.

    • Replies: @mulga mumblebrain
  118. @The Old Philosopher

    A buddy of mine didn’t pay any attention to the expansion of NATO or the Ukraine vs Ukraine killings of 2014-2022. But when someone told her “Putin just wants to grab more land for Russia”, she started reading up on it.

    If you want a laff, just about everything doesn’t fit in the official story about Novichok and Skripal in the UK.

  119. Ron Unz says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Thank you, though I am still left with the question why would Vietnam bot have made sure that Carter knew so it could get money out of the US?

    Don’t forget that Hanoi swept down and conquered the South in 1974, totally humiliating America, with our personnel having to flee in helicopters. So the Vietnamese leaders surely realized there was little chance of America paying them billions of dollars in the years that immediately followed.

    During various diplomatic meetings, they always emphasized that the POW/MIA issue was directly connected with the financial payment issue, and even sometimes said that maybe they’d be able to “find” some additional POWs if the money were paid, but that’s about as far as they went.

    Remember, Vietnam was a normal country, in which the top leaders had full information on important matters, so they naturally assumed that all of America’s leaders and officials were aware of the remaining POWs. But I think they were probably mistaken.

    • Replies: @Drive-by poster
  120. @Observator

    The Missing Man: Politics and the MIA
    https://books.google.com/books?id=10uw-2x85f0C&printsec=copyright#v=onepage&q&f=false

    Thanks for the tip.

    I had a chance to skim the download and found a fascinating mix of greed, tragedy, and hard-ball politics. That families had a huge financial interest in retaining MIA status vs KIA was unknown to me. The case of the parents whose pilot son had an engine failure and crashed into the ocean right in front of the Carrier was tragic. Even after being shown films of the incident, they refused to believe he was dead. Then there was this gem from Kissinger:

    …Kissinger stated that the vast amount of American military materiel left in South Vietnam constituted our payments under Article 21, and that this considerable inventory of aircraft, arms, ammunition, armor, and other material – valued as high as \$5 billion 61 – coupled with our “acceptance” of the eventual overthrow of the South Vietnamese Government, were the prices the United States paid for the return of the POW’s and an accounting of the MIA’s.

    I wonder how long it take till this site’s Racist Authors start talking about how Reparations for US slavery have already been paid. Free transportation from Africa. Hundreds of years of food and shelter. Being taught English. Learning Chrisianity. Free “skin lightening” by way of thoughtful White Masters and their sons!

    What a freaking deal for both the Vietnamese and Sub-Human “still-too-dark” US citizens.

    • Replies: @Lee
    , @Alden
  121. @IronForge

    and VADM Stockdale’s Ordeal was required reading at Annapolis.

    Thank you for reminding me of James Stockdale. I had not thought about him in a while.

    His book In Love and War is impressive. I can see why it would be required reading just about anywhere.

    There are two of Stockdale’s occasional papers posted online at the USNA site; they are a quick read at ~20 pages long. As they were written by someone who went through the Ultimate Bad Time (nearly 8 years as a POW in Hanoi), they are well worth a read by anyone who might be going through a bad time right now.

    https://www.usna.edu/Ethics/_files/documents/stoicism1.pdf

    https://www.usna.edu/Ethics/_files/documents/Stoicism2.pdf

    • Thanks: Lee
  122. @Ron Unz

    Don’t forget that Hanoi swept down and conquered the South in 1974, totally humiliating America, with our personnel having to flee in helicopters.

    If you are referring to those very exciting pictures of helicopters on the roof of the US Embassy, they were taken in 1975.

    I believe the 1975 conquest of Saigon was a surprise to both the Americans and the North Vietnamese (neither of which expected South Vietnamese resistance to crumble so quickly and completely).

    This is in contrast to the rout of the Americans in Afghanistan in 2021, which did not surprise the Taliban at all, but was a complete shock to the Americans (who had been spent most of the past 20 years assuring anyone who would listen they were on the cusp of victory).

  123. @Lee

    Afterburner has nothing to do with a “wet-start”. I’m an actual pilot who has started thousands of jet engines(none of which had FADEC), and you might be a ‘spotter’. Had McCain done nothing wrong he would not have been taken off the Forrestal within a few hours of the incident, as he had negligible injury.

    • Replies: @Lee
    , @Zachary Smith
  124. @mulga mumblebrain

    The air war didn’t fail. It accomplished the two great imperatives of US policy. First it made billions for the MICetc, and second it killed millions of people, murder being the one true religion of the USA.

    I did a mini-doc about that too:

    • Thanks: GMC
    • Replies: @Kurt Knispel
  125. “Interesting that you question the idea that the US was defeated in Vietnam. I think Jerry Pournelle was pretty hot on the failure of Congress to keep up air support for the South Vietnamese. And a Latin American professor friend points out that by 1975 the USin Cietnam had made a big contribution to win ing the Cold War. (Think of the alternative I suppose).”

    Smile.

    I don’t question the posit. Based on the record, I reject it in full.

    Having communists spend their nonproducing economies around the globe having to support so many other nations was a factor in cold war politics. I am careful of saying it ended, more like a retraction of sorts.

    In the end minus support, the ability of S. Vietnam to withstand repeated invasions by the North supported by China, The Soviets and North Korea would be nil, in my view. But our effort there was one of the few truly humane war efforts ever conceived and effectively carried out, despite the issues.

    again, I absolutely agree with the articles concerns about POW’s. And wonder about our missing and repatriation of those that returned — job well done, under very difficult conditions abroad and at home — shameful.

    ————–

    Side note: be leary of Latin American professors visiting US classrooms, they are wreaking havoc millions of young minds.

    ————–

    “Yeah, Wizz-if only the Holy USA and its stooges slaughtered another two, three, whatever million, to do ‘God’s work’ in Vietnam, maybe our puppet regime of pimps, torturers, drug runners, madams and Mafiosi might have triumphed. Keep licking those Yankee jack-boots.”

    Had S. Vietnam been a puppet our efforts would have been easier.

    ————–

    Laugh. I am unclear how to respond to a US humiliation when the US was not there in 1975

  126. Alfred says:

    Congratulations Ron. I profoundly disagree with you about the “pandemic” and the “vaccines” but pretty well everything else you write makes sense.

    Last week, Twitter censored Prof. Shapira—who was “physically injured” after his third Pfizer vaccine—and forced him to remove a post which said: “Monkeypox cases were rare for years. During the last years a single case was documented in Israel. It is well established the mRNA vaccines affect the natural immune system. A monkeypox outbreak following massive covid vaccination: *Is not a coincidence.”

    Israeli “Monkeypox Outbreak is Linked to mRNA Vaccines” Professor is Censored but Not Silenced

  127. @Ron Unz

    I’m afraid that the expression ‘..found in the Soviet archives’ during the Yeltsin years does NOT impress with its believability.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
  128. Lee says:
    @Zachary Smith

    ZS said:

    That families had a huge financial interest in retaining MIA status vs KIA was unknown to me. The case of the parents whose pilot son had an engine failure and crashed into the ocean right in front of the Carrier was tragic. Even after being shown films of the incident, they refused to believe he was dead

    I had never thought of this either.

    The subject of POWs has been on that slippery slope of financial gain for the families left behind for years.

  129. @MGB

    I wouldn’t have been aware of a counter argument until recently when I came across the argument that, even though US and British bombing of Germany was inefficiently inaccurate it made a very big contribution to the Red Army’s success because of the immense diversion of German resources to anti aircraft defence.

    • Disagree: Colin Wright
  130. Lee says:
    @acementhead

    Ace:

    Afterburner has nothing to do with a “wet-start”. I’m an actual pilot who has started thousands of jet engines(none of which had FADEC), and you might be a ‘spotter’. Had McCain done nothing wrong he would not have been taken off the Forrestal within a few hours of the incident, as he had negligible injury.

    The internet has several sources that state that is was impossible for an A4 to wet start anything as it didn’t have AB.

    Its probably safe to say that JM DID nothing wrong that led to the Forrestal fire. A F4 inadvertently fired a missile that slammed into the A4 next to him. Accounts of the incident state that JM sought medical care at sickbay and then returned to the flight deck to help put out the fires. There is no mention of him of him being taken off the Forrestal in a few hours because of his errant behavior. He eventually did transfer to another ship as the Forrestal headed off to drydock for extensive repairs.

    To be sure, I didn’t like JM either but piling on and making shit up isn’t a bit helpful when seeking the truth.

  131. Any person with the ability to read and compare the “official” and “unofficial” stories about Vietnam can see that any information about earth-shaking events that comes from government needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. This also goes back for over 100 years to the Spanish-American War up to the present day. Seeing the US government’s track record on lying, how can we believe anything that they say about Covid or any of the constant mass shootings that we’re hearing about practically every week. How can we believe any story that they release about what they found at Trump’s Florida mansion? I say that we can’t, every public statement should be examined with the scrutiny of a forensic examiner.

    • Agree: GMC
  132. W says:
    @Jakie

    Thank you for the courage to stand and speak truth as much as can be born at present.

    Wish he would do it when it comes to covid.

    • Replies: @Fungus Among Us
  133. Blodgie says:
    @mulga mumblebrain

    The only time the air war in the North was successful was when Nixon finally released the B-52s in late ‘72, which brought the enemy to the negotiating table and ended the war.
    From ‘65 to ‘72 they never used their best weapon.

    • Replies: @mulga mumblebrain
  134. The US abandoned thousands of US personel to USSR post Ww2 also.

  135. Anonymous[351] • Disclaimer says: • Website
    @Chebyshev

    Don’t blame Nixon .He was lucky they didn’t lynch him before leftt office.In fact if he didn’t resign and north vietnamese violated the accords the B-52s were ready and our little yellow brothers in north vietnam loved them. Vietnam Vet

  136. @Carlton Meyer

    Thank you for your efforts and recordings.

    • Agree: Arthur MacBride
  137. @acementhead

    Had McCain done nothing wrong he would not have been taken off the Forrestal within a few hours of the incident, as he had negligible injury.

    Truly McCain was a spoiled twit who had gotten away with every loony stunt because of his connections. However, the deck diagrams I’ve seen show the airplanes lined up side by side instead of in-line. If that’s actually what happened, McCain’s engine burp would have gone over the side instead of towards a plane behind him.

    That said, McCain had both a reputation and an actual record of being a reckless idiot so the Carrier crew would have naturally assumed he was involved in the disaster. (An aside: my opinion of the Institutional Navy Brass is that the parking details on the ship might be a later invention – to save McCain yet again.)

    To repeat an old statement of mine, putting McCain and Palin on the 2008 ticket was done to guarantee Obama would win. Just as the Mormon Bishop and sleezeball Ryan were used to guarantee BHO’s re-election.

    • Agree: InnerCynic
  138. @Wizard of Oz

    Every shell fired at the bombers was one which couldn’t be sent to the Eastern Front. Ditto for the guns.

    The bombing was very bad in the early years because everybody had assumed the work would be done during daylight. Fighers turned turned out to be far too dangerous for that to continue, and the bombers took to the night’s darkness where the average miss distance measured in miles.

    But keeping the Soviets in the war was Job #1, and the bombers kept flying despite the horrendous losses of men and machines.

    • Agree: Wizard of Oz
    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  139. I was in Asia and read. Neil Sheehan “A Bright Shining Lie” on America in VN whenit came out. My first insight into Western govts war against the world, including their own citizens who paradoxically have fought for their own demise.

    This issue is no doubt a scandal, one of very many, maybe like USUK soldiers firing DU into civilians in Fallujah or the heroic USAF bombing Beograd. And that’s what most of those POWs were doing, right? Check out Carlton Meyers videos above.

    Yes they were just obeying orders bombing Laos etc etc etc like their fathers have been doing for way over a century. Look up the US campaign re Filipino independence for example.

    It isn’t theJews that make you do it, Americans.
    You are and have been full on enthusiasts, not just in the military but your entire Executive, Judiciary and Media.

    Yes, dissenting voices as seen in this website.
    Telling (mostly) the truth. To what effect in USAs policy?
    Since my reading of Sheehan, none whatsoever.

    • Replies: @Arthur MacBride
  140. @Arthur MacBride

    And ref obeying orders, there is record (I have only seen it mentioned but cannot give any reference) that there were airmen who refused these appalling mass murder missions.

    These are your true heroes, Americans.

  141. ‘…For them to have later admitted that they had allowed him to get away with an act of monumental treachery would have been ruinous to their elevated post-Watergate reputation…’

    I think this may touch on a critical point. Post-Viet Nam, and post-Watergate, journalism helped itself to a rather elevated status. I was always struck by the relative mediocrity of the average bear in that discipline, but no — they were the Argus-eyed, morally pure, ever-courageous paragons of all that made America truly great.

    Was that the key to their fall? Back in the day, was your average beat reporter so pretentious? Wasn’t he perfectly willing to grant that if the wad of cash was big enough, and the sin small enough, he could be bought? Wasn’t he a Hearst Man, or Not-a-Hearst Man? Was he so goddamned wonderful?

    And if he wasn’t all that great, well then, of course he could sin. Yellow journalism was real. Hearst’s shenanigans to engineer the Spanish-American War weren’t a secret. Journalists were no better and no worse than the rest of us. Could they have been kinda…slow…about the MIA story? Yeah: they could have fessed up.

    But after about 1970, well…

    Of course they couldn’t admit they’d sinned. It would be like the Pope admitting he’d failed once or twice with the nuns taking care of his household.

    • Replies: @anarchyst
  142. @Zachary Smith

    ‘…Every shell fired at the bombers was one which couldn’t be sent to the Eastern Front. Ditto for the guns…’

    This overlooks the spectacular diversion of the best human material and the most expensive possible industrial products to the air war.

    Every fifteen-year old Flak helper was being kept up by an aircrew that could have officered and infantry platoon flying an aircraft that cost what a landing craft, weapons to go with it, and a fighter-bomber would have cost. Every [i]hausfrau[/i] bombed out of her apartment was bombed out at the cost of half the output of an entire assembly line back in Canada or the US.

    To put it differently, Bomber Command lost sixty thousand of the Empire’s best and brightest — men who could have been the officers and NCO’s of a vastly more powerful ground army — one manned by all the ground crew and factory workers building the bombers, airfields, bombs, etc.

    And what did they get for that? Half a million random dead Germans: old-age pensioners, children, foreign workers, etc. As it was, measured by dead Germans, two-thirds of the bombing campaign’s effect came in the last year of the war. By then, Russia didn’t need help.

    If you do the math, you’ll see it was a losing proposition. Absent the ‘Strategic’ Bombing Campaign, the Western Allies could have landed in France in 1943. A credible threat in 1942 would have forced the Germans to divert more combat-ready divisions to the West sooner.

    That would have helped Russia.

  143. @W

    My guess is Ron Unz is, finally, the messiah.

  144. Atle says:

    I remember reading something years ago that many POWs were held after the war and later executed by the Vietnamese.

    Always disliked McCain. He continually licked the media’s assholes but they never backed him when it counted.

    • Replies: @mulga mumblebrain
  145. @Colin Wright

    If you do the math, you’ll see it was a losing proposition.

    I can’t disagree with that assessment, but sometimes it’s necessary to ignore “the math”. At the time the Bombing Campaign was getting well started, the Russians were really hurting. Lend Lease wasn’t really rolling yet, and Stalin was toying with the idea of negotiating a separate peace with Hitler. There had to be some visible help Now, and not later. In one sense sixty thousand dead/missing RAF men is a lot, but in another sense it’s not so much. Don’t underestimate Churchill’s ability to piss away his Army in adventures like Greece, Singapore, or the Second Battle of Alamein.

    Any invasion of France would require Americans, and lots of them. Marshall and other generals were itching to try something in France in 1942, and that would have been suicide. Between June of 1943 and June 1944 the Germans lost 770,000 men. Assuming 12,000 men per division, that’s 64 divisions. Even in 1944 the invasion was a close call, with a big intelligence deception operation convincing the Nazis the Allies had a much larger army.

    The US started with a super tiny army at Pearl Harbor time, and it takes a lot of time to gather the necessary men and train them. Lots of work to build the factories to start making airplanes and tanks and everything else that’s needed. You’ll recall that the 1944 invasion was delayed a month just to get a few more of the big landing craft. I think a 1943 invasion would have failed on that account alone.

    • Agree: Wizard of Oz
  146. @Colin Wright

    If you do the math, you’ll see it was a losing proposition. Absent the ‘Strategic’ Bombing Campaign, the Western Allies could have landed in France in 1943.

    The Allies went one better and landed in France in 1942. In fact, we are only couple of days away from the 80th anniversary of the Dieppe Raid.

    It is comforting to think the Allies could have landed in France anytime they wished, but Dieppe was a relatively small-scale raid that still ended in disaster. Timing counts for a lot in warfare, and if any lessons can be drawn from the raid, they are that the Germans were still too strong and the Allies still too unprepared for an invasion to have any chance of success for some time to come.

    (After all, the Battle of Kasserine Pass [a disaster for the Yanks] took place in February 1943, and it would be a while yet before the British would start taking the Americans seriously, never mind the well-led, battle-toughened Germans.)

    It took a combination of the Russians draining away German strength on the Ostfront and the Allies getting better at using their men and equipment that made Operation Overlord the success it was two years later. Spending two years fighting the Germans in North Africa gave the Allies the experience they so badly needed before they could land in France with a good chance of success.

    (The fact the Allies did not face the Luftwaffe operating at will in 1944 as they did in 1942 helped a bit, too.)

    • Agree: Wizard of Oz
    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  147. Wielgus says:
    @Colin Wright

    The British Army complained about the quality of its recruits in WW2 – the reason was that the RAF and the Royal Navy tended to get the more capable manpower and the Army was left with the residue for the most part. Traditionally the RN was the “senior service” anyway but with the RAF also competing for skilled recruits, I can see the Army’s problem.
    According to an account I read of German attitudes in the Normandy fighting of 1944, they regarded ordinary British soldiers as a bit stupid. Which would be a confirmation that the quality British manpower was indeed going somewhere else. British NCOs were regarded as generally good and the main reason the British did not simply collapse on the battlefield. British officers were seen by the Germans as good at theoretical knowledge but lacking initiative.

  148. GMC says:
    @Getaclue

    Agree that Henry Ford wrote some great stuff and his translation of Hitler’s Mein Kampf is well read. Stalin, his epitaph reads like a man with multiple personalities { disorders} and some Russians love the guy , others hate him and others stay neutral on the subject. But Russians accept their history and could care less what other people think.The Correlations between what is happening to the people in America and what happened in Russia 1918 and on, is rather obvious. They both were taken out by the same international crime syndicate.

  149. @Atle

    Executing POWs? You’re thinking of the USA, surely? Operation Phoenix and all that. ‘Tiger cages’ ring a bell?’ Pump and dump’?

  150. @Blodgie

    I was in Hanoi in 2012 and saw the wreckage of B-52s shot down during the ‘Christmas bombing’ (how ‘Christian’)campaign of December 1972. Warmed the cockles of my heart, I must say.

  151. WEF author (((Inbal Goldberger))) came up with a solution: she proposes to collect off-platform intelligence from “millions of sources” to spy on people and new ideas, and then merge this information together for “content removal decisions” sent down to “Internet platforms”. https://www.planet-today.com/2022/08/wefs-global-intelligence-collecting-ai.html

  152. I was an infantry veteran of that war and would hear about deserters who hid in the cities, often with their Vietnamese girlfriends, many who had children by these men and supported these men . I would also hear how many were supported by their families, sending cash to them. And many were involved in the black market and the drug trade. Rumor was there was thousands of them, hiding in all the major cities in South Vietnam.

    So when the war ended, I often wondered what happened to these men who deserted, they could not just come home, as they could be prosecuted for desertion in time of war, a firing squad offense. They could not still hide from the new communist government as being white or negro they would be easy to spot and those Vietnamese who hid them would be subject to some sort of punishment.

    So, can anyone comment what did happen to those thousands of deserters who hid in the cities and when the war ended , where caught between a rock and a hard place. They were men without a country. About 25 years ago I asked this same question on a Vietnam Veterans forum and was told they were given a blanket pardon by Carter, in an attempt to heal the nation and put the Vietnam war behind us. And those who wanted to come back to the U.S. could do so without fear of prosecution. I was told many did but also many did not, choosing to remain in Vietnam. Anyone care to comment if this was true?

    • Replies: @loner feral cat
    , @Wielgus
  153. atp says:

    The United States of America had no business in Vietnam! The only thing of significance that came out of that US war was it finally eliminated the Draft, leaving only volunteers – ignorant and propagandized – to fight wars in other countries in which we had/have no business! It was a tactic of the overall plan for the world money elites’ mission to eventually rule the world by conquering land and its natural and human resources into the new aristocracy of materialism where the lesser of us become the modern serfs in a New World Order! Those same money elites are itching to send those volunteers to the Ukraine and Taiwan in that strategy of world conquest along with other tactics such as fraudalent voting, pestilence, famine, presently playing out before our very eyes! Only Putin’s Resolve is standing in the way at the moment!

  154. Cking says:

    Stopping Communism’s expansion in Southeast Asia was not a bad or evil cause. But it turns out wars are fought for the profit of a few and ‘winning’ in Vietnam was never an objective of our elite. Depopulating a portion of the 3rd World was an acceptable outcome. This forgotten history is embarrassing and evil in that those of us who know have done and said nothing. Recently we have 9/11 and the Iraqi War on the pretext for capturing and controlling Saddam’s WMD facility. Most Americans are now suspicious of the narratives. How can anyone in political leadership promote the heroics of war. And when will the American people wake up for future wars; we’re being sacrificed for ‘profits’, fools gold.

  155. Irwin says:

    Here’s another story too big for the NYT.
    This video has been selectively worded to pass YouTube censor bot’s. Enjoy.

  156. anarchyst says:
    @Colin Wright

    There are those who have swallowed the false history-standard loss of Vietnam lies hook line and sinker. Americans and South Vietnamese prevailed in every battle-bar none. In fact, TET 1968 was a decisive victory for the South Vietnamese and American forces-despite attempting to overrun the South, the Viet Cong and North Vietnamese forces were decimated. Of course, the American mainstream media claimed it was a victory for the communists. Thanks, walter cronkite…
    North Vietnamese General Giap credited the American mainstream media with giving them new resolve to “push on” as he knew that the American media was on his side.

    [MORE]

    As to the so-called “anti-war protesters”, they only wanted one thing–to save their own skins–nothing more. In fact, when the draft ended, so did the protests. Even present-day “uber-patriot” Ted Nugent got in on the act, defecating and urinating on himself and not washing for a month before appearing before the draft board–he was sent home. He stated that “Vietnam was not his war”
    The American Vietnam war was not a civil-war but was an INVASION by the communist North Vietnamese, who wanted control of the whole country. The INVASION was allowed to continue when American troops left and South Vietnamese troops were not resupplied.
    It is interesting to note that after the “fall” of South Vietnam (1975), the communist “leaders” from the North attempted to impose the same draconian controls upon the South Vietnamese as was the case in the North. It didn’t work and the communists were forced to back down, allowing a quasi-capitalist market to flourish…looking the other way while the people went about their business.
    Those who have watched the Ken Burns’ schlockumentary on Vietnam, in which he built up the North Vietnamese while exacting harsh criticism (lies) on the American and South Vietnamese troops were exposed to Burns’ lies and fabrications. To his credit, Burns let it slip that the re-education camps (actually prisons) (contrary to communist claims) would be in operation for approximately six months after the war was over, it turns out that many former South Vietnamese were detained for as long as twenty years.
    Post-war Vietnam was so wonderful, tens of thousands of boat people risked life and limb to escape that communist paradise [silence].
    Ask the Vietnamese who live in garden Grove and Westminster California what they think…

  157. @PurpleHeartVn

    I’ve heard quite a few first hand tales from Vietnam veterans.

    Mostly while living in San Diego County, but also while the service.

    At one point I was surviving on the streets in a VW panel van (Hotel California) with a quiver of Greg Liddle surfboards. Yes, “Life’s a Beach.”

    One morning in Cardiff-by-the-Sea, some time after midnight, at a place called VG’s Donuts, I was camped out at their vacant counter, reading a book, drinking some coffee, and savoring an apple fritter.

    Working the counter between making donuts, was a dude by the name of “Mack.” One of his stories briefly goes something like this.

    He was assigned to a USMC Recon Team that was tasked with SAR missions, intent on locating American POWs.

    In one case, they felt there was reliable intel. When they reached the site, it was deserted, apparently very recently.

    Upon returning to a U.S. firebase, and while approaching the wire, his team took friendly fire (mortar rounds). He was the only survivor, albeit severely wounded.

    He held to the belief, that it was an intentional attempt to silence them, given what they had discovered at the abandoned POW camp.

  158. ” The only thing of significance that came out of that US war was it finally eliminated the Draft, leaving only volunteers – ignorant and propagandized – to fight wars in other countries in which we had/have no business! ”

    i9 will only respond to the draft issue. Every US citizen should expect to be drafted in response to serving the nation that bore and provides for them. And it is the draft that serves as a mechanism to pushback against needless i8nvasions such as

    Afghanistan and iraq, the meddling such as: Ukraine, Syria, Libya etc.

  159. @Colin Wright

    I never forget the loss in the British countries of the Anglosphere (in particular) of so many of the best and brightest in both World Wars….

  160. @anarchyst

    There are those who have swallowed the false history-standard loss of Vietnam lies hook line and sinker. Americans and South Vietnamese prevailed in every battle-bar none.

    Winning a fight and winning an entire war are two different things.

    It is one thing to defend your own land, another to go thousands of miles overseas to (ostensibly) defend someone else’s. Whether the US was in Vietnam for a good or a bad reason, the fact was that it was a foreign power in a country where it did not belong.

    When the French were kicked out of Vietnam in the mid-1950s, one of the terms of the US-brokered peace agreement was that the Vietnamese were promised a free and democratic election to determine who would lead their country. The problem (from the viewpoint of the West) was that an election would have put the communists into power because that was who the Vietnamese wanted at the time.

    Well, that was what the Americans didn’t want, so the Vietnamese did not get what they had been promised. The rest you know.

    I agree that the postwar takeover of South Vietnam by the communists was a disaster. However, the Vietnamese eventually learned the hard way which ways of living worked and which did not.

    That is a choice every country should be free to make without the US Marines showing up.

    America could become a popular, much-loved country all over again; all it has to do is learn how to stay home.

    • Agree: Arthur MacBride
  161. @anarchyst

    Wow, you repeat all the major myths about the Vietnam war created after the war when memories had faded.

    Americans and South Vietnamese prevailed in every battle-bar none.

    The American Vietnam war was not a civil-war but was an INVASION by the communist North Vietnamese, who wanted control of the whole country.

    The INVASION was allowed to continue when American troops left and South Vietnamese troops were not resupplied.

  162. Wielgus says:
    @PurpleHeartVn

    As the NVA were entering Saigon in 1975, one American ex-serviceman with a Vietnamese wife or girl friend was briefly interviewed by a Western, maybe Australian TV channel. He was at a loss. He couldn’t find his partner and I think he mentioned having had a child by her. It is possible that with Hanoi closing in, she had ditched him – being married to a “US imperialist” under the new management was not likely to go well for her. I wonder what happened to him.

  163. @Zachary Smith

    ‘ …US started with a super tiny army at Pearl Harbor time, and it takes a lot of time to gather the necessary men and train them. Lots of work to build the factories to start making airplanes and tanks and everything else that’s needed. You’ll recall that the 1944 invasion was delayed a month just to get a few more of the big landing craft. I think a 1943 invasion would have failed on that account alone.’

    You ignore the fact that not just the British but also the US were dumping fantastic amounts of men and material into the ‘strategic’ air war. By 1943 the US was already staging the very expensive if also quite ineffectual Schweinfurt raids, for example. How many divisions for a 1943 invasion did that represent?

    It can of course be debated ad infinitem and indeed, at the time the air war may have looked like the right move, but I think it’s clear that the Western Allies could have mounted a stronger invasion sooner if all that fantastic quantity of industrial output and highly trained human material had gone to building up and mounting a ground invasion backed by an ordinary tactical air force.

  164. “The problem (from the viewpoint of the West) was that an election would have put the communists into power because that was who the Vietnamese wanted at the time.”

    Well,

    you are missing this important point or two

    1. the concern about the elections was because Vietcong and North Vietnamese were constantly engaged in terrorizing S. Vietnamese populations, putting in doubt a fait election.

    2. Vietnam has ever rarely been a country as a whole, except under foreign occupation. the liberal suggestion that this was a civil war is false. And the here’s the real kicker — if control wa to be returned back ro a single nation — then it would go to the monarchy — not ho Chi Miens’ pipe dream of turned real by mass slaughter, torture and reeducation camps.

    3. If the North Vietnamese wanted peace, all they had to was stop invasing and work toward a peaceful solution.

    Nearly every complaint coming out of the left and education was either wrong or a falsehood. And much to our shame, we shoved in into the minds of returning veterans in such volumes many of them believed it and suffer under delusion that they are at fault for some wrong — when in fact.

    what they did was one of the few genuine fights of for the goodwill of another this nation has ever fought.

    • Replies: @anarchyst
    , @HeebHunter
  165. Lee says:
    @anarchyst

    anar said:

    Americans and South Vietnamese prevailed in every battle-bar none. In fact, TET 1968 was a decisive victory for the South Vietnamese and American forces-despite attempting to overrun the South, the Viet Cong and North Vietnamese forces were decimated.

    Towards the end of the war, with US forces only providing artillery support the S Viets got the shit kicked out of them selves repeatedly every time they left the base. Upper level S Viets , military and civilian alike, weren’t interested in winning the war. To them the goal was to make as many \$ as they could before the US gravy train left the station.

    Pretty sure that Col Hal Moore, who wrote a book on this battle, never considered the 1st Cav battle in la Drang in Nov 1965 a victory. The VC handed out a whipping there while learning that the way to beat the air cav was to “hug the troopers belts” so that artillery couldn’t be used. 3 days later the 1st Cav sister battalion was ambushed on the way back to base.

    Tet 1968 was a victory for the US and SVN forces but that wasn’t how it was portrayed by the US media. There was really no surprise here–the VC had violated Tet truces before and some VC units actually started a little early tipping their hand that the truce was off.

  166. Sparkon says:
    @Zachary Smith

    Lots of work to build the factories to start making airplanes and tanks and everything else that’s needed.

    Based on a proposal tendered in August 1934, the B-17 first flew in 1935, and was introduced in 1938.

    Coincidentally (uh huh) August 1934 is the same month Paul Hindenberg died, allowing Adolf Hitler to seize full power in Germany,

    The other main heavy bomber of the USAAC during WWII was the B-24, which grew out of the B-17 program “…an Air Corps requirement for an intercontinental bomber that had been conceived in the mid-1930s.”

    At the time the Bombing Campaign was getting well started, the Russians were really hurting

    Well, in truth, the Russians were really hurting from the time the Bolsheviks seized power, but the true state of the Red Army when the bombing campaign got underway is difficult to determine, even now.

    Of course Stalin was wailing for all the help he could get through Lend Lease, and the United States gave him almost everything he asked for, war related or not.

    The single exception was the heavy bomber.

  167. anarchyst says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    WOW!
    Something we can agree on. Good post. I was there…
    Many North Vietnamese people “voted with their feet” when the so-called “elections” were scheduled. They KNEW that once a country goes communist, the people at the top prosper while the rest of them live a harsh existence. Communism is like roaches–difficult to get rid of.
    Notice the silence from the anti-war leftists when the waves of Vietnamese “boat people” were escaping that “communist paradise”. Not a peep…
    Also keep in mind that both the South Vietnamese and American military were fighting with one hand tied behind our backs” being forbidden to attack the strongholds connected to the “Ho Chi Minh” trail…
    Regards,

    • Troll: mulga mumblebrain
    • Replies: @mulga mumblebrain
  168. dms578 says:

    not exactly news Ron and I know you are “shocked positively shocked” hearing it at this point. Am 11 yrs older than you and did not come from some radical jewish progressive background but lived among your sort in belle harbor from my birth. we actually had young men who participated in the attempt to neutralize the consequences of jewish bolshevism in real time and not pretend when it became obvious what it had wrought for peoples all over this world. acting surprised at this point in time and trying to offset this on McCain an awful person whose “career” was one of the most disgraceful examples of what ayn rand called ‘the aristocracy of pull”. you are a ridiculous person but manage to post interesting points of view i have come to believe your contributors tolerate for the exposure they can’t get in MSM which they richly deserve. The nadir was Mike Hudson almost losing his stuff over your absurd covid theories. I daily come to site but generally bypass anything posted by you. I was wondering what in the hell you thought you had to say about Schandberg however. Read the content in real time. RIP. Not disappointed my first impression being confirmed.

  169. “being forbidden to attack the strongholds connected to the “Ho Chi Minh” trail…”

    I was hesitant to add anything to your response. Though marching right through Hanoi to the chinese border would not have been an unwise choice, in my view.

  170. @anarchyst

    You’re the only roach hereabouts. OK-not the only one.

    • Replies: @anarchyst
  171. @Kurt Knispel

    I absolutely agree. A few uneducated, bloodthirsty hicks, a.k.a typical Amerimutt 11B scum are worth less than nothing. Top kike Kissinger also confirmed this. It is ill-rational to arrange costly spec-ops to rescue a few worthless meth addicts. Better to let it lay low, that way they can ignore the real victim of the Vietnam War, namely the Vietnamese people. Who were also pushed to communism by (((them))).

  172. Sparkon says:

    I have but a few personal anecdotes about the tragic war in Vietnam, but I am happy to see Ron Unz post this article with its trove of resources.

    Fortunately, I’d already enlisted in the Air Force as a naive 17-year-old just out of high school by the time of the Gulf of Tonkin incident, so I was never subject to the draft, and mostly kept out of harm’s way as the war escalated.

    However, I did fly in and out of Tachikawa Air Base many times as the U.S. built up troop strength in what was often euphemistically referred to as “S.E. Asia.”

    In fact, “Tachi” was one of the main transit points for GIs heading for ‘Nam after landing at nearby Yokota AB, which had a long runway that could easily handle jets flying in from the States. After landing at Yokota, many GIs were bused over to Tachikawa for the flight to Vietnam aboard propeller driven transport aircraft like the C-124, C-133 and others.

    For my first flight across the big pond, I flew out of Travis AFB aboard a brand new Flying Tigers DC-8 Super 61, just a couple months after the big bird’s first flight, and even before the long, thin, high capacity jetliner officially went into service. I was not an experienced flier at that stage, with just a few flights aboard mostly 707s and 727s, along with an assortment of smaller prop planes like the famous DC-3

    And so, I was not prepared for what I saw when I got aboard that DC-8 stretch. The aisle seemed to extend off into the distance like a tunnel without end. I turned to the stew who was welcoming me aboard at the rear of the jet, and asked her what was the capacity of the airplane, and she replied “Over 250.”

    While still digesting that, I took my seat, and soon the big jet engines roared and the airplane began its very long takeoff run. Travis has an 11,000 foot runway, and I swear that DC-8 used every inch of it while my fingers dug into the armrest for what seemed like forever, but the big bird at last lumbered into the air, and I released my death grip on the armrest. The rest of the flight was uneventful, but included a refueling stop at Elmendorf AFB in Alaska, repeated on my 2nd flight a couple years later, my only visits to the state. Both return flights stopped in Hawaii to refuel.

    At Tachikawa, I had the misfortune of encountering U.S. Army deserters who were hanging around the transit barracks there, where security seemed pretty lax, and a number of guys had watches, wallets and jewelry stolen while sleeping in the transit barracks, or while taking a shower, after neglecting to secure their valuables with a lock on the big lockers there.

    There was this audacious dude or dudes we called “The Creeper” who came around at night and actually stole watches and rings right off the wrists and fingers of sleeping GIs, and of course anything not under lock and key was easy pickings for the nocturnal thieves.

    Tachikawa AB had a short runway that could not easily handle jet aircraft. Beginning in 1955, the U.S. Air Force was trying to extend the runway, but Japanese farmers, students, and citizens mounted spirited protests against the planned expansion, which was cancelled in 1957. Nevertheless, in ’66, ’67 and ’68, small groups of JNs (Japanese Nationals) still gathered beyond the end of the runway at Tachi while carrying long bamboo poles with signs in Japanese which they hoisted in the air anytime a plane landed or took off there, providing some excitement for pilots and passengers alike.

    USAF C-124 landing at Tachikawa AB

    Tachikawa AB ceased air operations sometime in late 1968, around the time of my last flight to that airfield. but I must say, I’d had a lot of fun in Tachikawa’s many bars, and despite the protests, the Japanese always treated me well as I tossed down drinks and flirted with the bar girls.

    There’s more, but that’s enough for now.

  173. Alden says:
    @Zachary Smith

    What was the financial interest the families of POWs had? Continuing dependents allowances?

    • Replies: @Zachary Smith
  174. @Lee

    If what you are saying is true, then a myth has spread around the internet that “McCain could not be the one that caused the Forresstal disaster because non-afterburning engines are incapable of wet starts”, based on completely wrong information.

    A wet start is basically a start malfunction of a jet engine and every pilot learning to fly a fized wing jet aircraft – with engine(s) without FADEC – for the first time learns about it about the first things they do (Since to fly an aircraft you first have to start the engine, obviously).

    A wet start is originally a start malfunction specific to jet engines (Which a turbojet is just one kind of, the other most usual ones being turboprops and turbofans for fixed wing aircraft. All these generate thrust by the same basic principle, by burning jet fuel with air in a specific part of the engine called the burn chamber which in turn generates expanding gas which can be used to create thrust in different ways), where excess fuel is present in the burn chamber when the ignition system is switched on.
    The fuel can be present by way of leakeage or by the fuel pumps being started before the ignition system of an engine or whatever.

    Also, note that until the age of FADEC – Full Authority Digital Engine Control – the usual aircraft engine – of whatever type: piston, jet of any kind – was much less automated and under much more manual control than a 80s car engine, which usually had an ECU (Electronic Control Unit).
    All basic functions were controlled manually and not under the control of any higher order organizing system (Such as an ECU or a FADEC system) that made the engine run smoothly without pilot intervention – as a car engine of the 80s does, under what are very varying circumstances.

    Non-regulations following jackasses (In other words, exactly the kind of person John McCain was) of course realized that you could produce a wet start deliberately by deliberately starting the fuel pumps a short moment before the ignition system was switched on (A normal start sequence would be the opposite).

    This produces an excess of jet fuel in the burn chamber of the engine when the ignition is switched on. The excessive amount of fuel now present in the burn chamber ignites all at once and, if excessive enough, causes a long flame to strike out of the back of the aircraft (Or the engine exhaust, really).

    So, a wet start has nothing at all with any eventual afterburner to do. Just google wet start jet engine or wet start malfunction and add some kind of iconic non-afterburning aircraft such as 747 or something like that and you will get results proving what is said above.
    The confusion might be up to that the afterburner thrust setting, on jet engines with an afterburner, is
    often called “wet thrust”.

    #Addendum 1: “Wow, very cool”, the “maverick” John McCain obviously would have thought about a flame striking out of his backend.

    Add to that that the sudden burn of excessive amounts of fuel in a wet start has been known to in some instances cause voltage spikes in the electrical systems of some aircraft.

    Add to that the the Forrestal disaster was found to have been caused by a voltage spike in an aircraft leading to the firing of a so called ZUNI 127 mm rocket (which is an air-to-ground rocket with a high explosive blast/fragmentation warhead which the aircraft had been armed with in preparation of a some kind of ground attack mission.

    Add to that that the A-4 was exclusively a air-to-ground attack aircraft (It might have had a anti-surface – ie anti-ship mission once or twice – but it defintely was never used as in any air-to-air role) in the Vietnam war.
    Air to ground rockets was a very common loadout for light attack aircraft. The Zuni rocket was commonly used by A-4s and then the Zuni was replaced by 70 mm rockets (Of which the A-4 was one, it was eventually replaced by the A-7 in the light attack role).

    Aircraft on the Forrestal was, at the time of the accident, as is usually the case, parked at each side of the deck with the nose facing the middle of the ship at approximately 45 degrees.
    In the Forrestal dissaster a ZUNI rocket struck an aircraft carrying live ordinance – 500 lbs bombs – which started a serious fire. The 500 lbs bombs eventually “cooked off”, ie exploded, leading to a kind of chain reaction on the deck with more exploding ordinance and a spreading fire.

    Add to that that in the official story of the disaster McCain was in the aircraft next to the one that fired the Zuni rocket when a voltage spike ran through it’s electrical system, but this might easily just be to shield McCain – to make people who were aboard and who had seen McCain being in the aircraft firing the Zuni rocket seem mistaken: “Actually, you must be wrong, McCain was in the aircraft next to the aircraft that fired the ZUNI rocket. Such a mistake is easily made!”.
    This would after all obviously be the most foolproof way to make eventual eyewitnesses who might compromise McCain by insisting it was him who caused the disaster seem mistaken, and to make public opinion give them no benefit of the doubt (How corrupt McCain’s father was was not known at the time) if McCain was to be publically accused by crewmates/fellow pilots.

    Add to that that John McCain had one of the most corrupt admirals as his father (Who was very much responsible for the whitewashing of the Israeli/Jewish attack on the USS Liberty by I believe being the official author of the official report on the Incident which denied what has since become obvious, that a deliberate attack by Israeli armed forces on the Liberty had occurred), who was almost certainly intervening for his son throughout his career in the Navy.
    This has been a well-known phenomenon/pattern – of servicemen having senior generals/admirals as their near family intervening on their behalf when they get into trouble or to get them coveted positions in the military – and manhy instances of such behavior have been documented continuing up until today. It’s an open secret in the armed forces that this happens, especially if someone causes a incident of some kind.

    #Addendum 2: John McCain was not taken off the Forrestal by helicopter “within a few hours” but he was taken off “within hours”, namely approximately 24-48 hours.

    There was an immense amount of wounded men needing evacuation from the ship after the disaster which cost around 100 lives, so it’s more than a little strange that the lightly wounded McCain – he might have gotten a sprained ankle when he jumped out of his aircraft to run away or something – was taken off the ship so soon. There is to my knowledge no record of nor any evidence pointing to that any other at most very lightly wounded pilot were taken off the ship in that timeframe.

    • Thanks: anarchyst
  175. @EliteCommInc.

    Your post shows utter retardation, ignorance, and stupidity, most typical of the americans.
    You can’t even be bothered to read about what led to the nationalists of Vietnam adopting “communism”. I bet you think China is “communist” also.

    What the fuck do you think would happen when you helped Stalinism avoid destruction and extermination? Out of pure greed and hatred for Germany? Do you think people would just stop their ethnic agenda and righteous causes because they are/were afraid of some boogeyman label like “communism”? Only “huwhites” and the post-WW2 genetic excrements of Europe actually believed in “real” “Marxism”. Every single other Asian “communist” was an ethnic nationalist who realized they needed Russian and Chinese guns and ammo. In fact, Ho Chi Minh was detained many times for “nationalistic tendencies”, which probably means he was too interested in the liberation of his people and lacked consideration for the Comblock, which only existed because of the outcome of WW2.

    Let’s say God has done a real fine job mocking the (((West))) by gracing the “communists” with mercy and letting their countries be independent.

    This is why the entire world is decoupling from you and are itching for a chance to murder you.

    Get this through your thick skull. Not a single war the rejects of Europe have fought, namely YOU, have been just. Which is why your country is disintegrating. Your ancestors, your soldiers, and your people are Sub-Human pieces of shit. May the Old World cleanse you all with Nuclear Hellfire.

    Oh, and I think most of the so-called POWs/methheads got chopped up, Vietnamese jungle style. They let all the well-behaved ones go home. The rests were probably lower IQ subhuman Amerimutts who still believe they were anything but kosher thugs of Kissinger. Lower animals to be used and abused. These dumb cunts probably insulted their captors while being hung naked inside cages.

    • Replies: @Deserttrek
  176. I think any truth is too big for the NY times these days. Let alone something as big as a failed biowarfare attack that backfired n killed over a million Americans.

  177. “Your post shows utter retardation, ignorance, and stupidity, most typical of the americans.
    You can’t even be bothered to read about what led to the nationalists of Vietnam adopting “communism”. I bet you think China is “communist” also. . . .”

    first, I am an advocate of free speech. However, i would prefer you not use colorful language in responding to my comments.. There is no way to prevent you from doing so, nor am i advocating any such thing — just that you choose to sensor yourself.

    second, the vietcong and north vietnamese repeatedly violated every peace agreement ever made, including those that might have led to a general election. Their ability to terrorize the population was nonstop and would have influenced any electoral process.

    third given the context, it matters not a twiddle what the political disposition of Vietnam was. i don’t even reference communism. I reference the conduct of the Vietcong and north Vietnam and why elections were a dubious enterprise as to farness. Your desire to change the subject to the value, existence or lack thereof of communism — that is another topic.

    fourth, ho Chi mien is a nuanced personality in the North vietnamese history. He wanted to settle and not fight a war of attrition, he was outvoted by his communist counter-prts. At the end of the day he was proved correct, North Vietnam could not defeat the combined allies in South Vietnam. Researchers that gained access to the documented events and meetings during Ho chi mien’s time reveal a very conflicted divide between a peace faction and a military faction — And ho Chi Mien was not always calling the shots. I am afraid your argument about whether vietnam is communist rests with the North Vietnamese they called themselves comm8unists and sought to bring that about. And clearly, t5here are several huge hurdles between communist t5heory and the communism so called by the Soviet union, Chna, Vietnam and others. trying iron that out in my view has kittle consequence to what took place regarding the Vietnam conflict. Certainly it is from the dynamic between communist countries — they don’t see eye to.

    fifth, germany started a war, they made a pact with japan that they would fight each others enemies. When juapan attacked pearl harbor, the US was at war with japan and Germany. Note: even cancellor Hitler was caught off guard, because the bombing of pearl harbor placed germany at war with the US and by alliance in league with the allied powers, including Russia. Less to do with wanting to destroy germans as the a practical matter. Now i will aside that I think PM Chu8rchill and Gen patton had the matter correct, that Pres roosevelt and Pres truman underestimated Soviet ambitions —

    however, we invested in rebuilding Germany . . . and are now allied with them. So i am unclear of the complaint. Save — war is a nasty nasty nasty business best avoided. but when faced with one who makes war as Germany did in Europe, as japan did in Asia, as North vietnam did to S. Vietnam and Russia is currently doing in Ukraine . . . the choice is not always one that can be avoided.

    sixth, i disagree with your admonition regarding US servicemen or allied the same as prisoners in Vietnam. At the end of the conflict said prisoners should have been returned to a one — period. But the history of Vietnamese of the north has reason to be in question.

    Note: US service men are instructed to cooperate as little as possible with their captors war effort.

    ——————-

    i do hope sincerely that your personal wounds heal . . .

  178. “You can’t even be bothered to read about what led to the nationalists of Vietnam adopting “communism”

    I will take a jab at it. Say 700 years of division and internal conflict and a weariness of occupation.

  179. @Alden

    From “The Missing Man”:

    A government official who has been working closely with the POW/MIA families since the very beginning of the war expressed the same idea in another way, when he observed that the MIA environment has had a “corrupting” effect on the families. Most of what he had in mind was emotional and psychological – the remorse, guilt, frustration and anger – but there has been a persistent charge, even by family members themselves, that avarice motivates a few families. There is certainly the temptation in many cases.

    While in a missing status, a serviceman draws his full pay and all the allowances in effect at the time of loss – such as combat pay, and flight pay. In addition he is promoted with his peers, and all of his income that is not paid to his wife is placed in a savings account that pays 10 percent interest. The difference between the benefits available to an MIA wife and those paid to the widow of a KIA is immense.

  180. @Zachary Smith

    In the early stages of the war, Japan’s victories meant the loss of Asian rubber plantations which the US had been using. Germany had already developed synthetic rubber, and so US industry went to work on developing that for itself. This was all completed in 1943. But that probably had a good bit of influence on the decision of when to make an all-out landing a la Normandy.

    • Replies: @Zachary Smith
  181. anarchyst says:
    @mulga mumblebrain

    the “jab” must have affected your thinking

    • Replies: @mulga mumblebrain
  182. @Patrick McNally

    But that probably had a good bit of influence on the decision of when to make an all-out landing a la Normandy.

    Good point! I couldn’t immediately find any numbers for the individual years, but did run into this:

    In 1941, the total annual output of synthetic rubber was 231 tons in the US. By 1945, the monthly output for synthetic rubber rose to the high figure of around 70,000 tons!

    https://www.turmerry.com/blogs/dreamerry/history-of-rubber

    Building factories and getting the bugs out of the technology wasn’t something which happened overnight. Also, all those tens of thousands of trucks being sent to the Soviet Union had to have rubber tires on them as well as spares. No wonder the home front civilians were out of luck except for types like doctors.

    Gas masks of the day required rubber as well. Towards the end of the war unused/discarded US gas masks from Europe were brought back to the US and refurbished by Italian POWs. This is an indication of what was going to happen in Japan if the Downfall invasions had happened.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  183. @Zachary Smith

    I had the same reaction to reading his interesting point as when at the age of 17 I read about the difference it made that Napoleon’s troops were manoeuvring into line
    at double time while the Prussians were still using slow march time.

    History’s details can be fascinating as well critical to understanding reality.

    • Replies: @Drive-by poster
  184. @EliteCommInc.

    fifth, germany started a war, they made a pact with japan that they would fight each others enemies. When juapan attacked pearl harbor, the US was at war with japan and Germany. Note: even cancellor Hitler was caught off guard, because the bombing of pearl harbor placed germany at war with the US and by alliance in league with the allied powers, including Russia. Less to do with wanting to destroy germans as the a practical matter. Now i will aside that I think PM Chu8rchill and Gen patton had the matter correct, that Pres roosevelt and Pres truman underestimated Soviet ambitions —

    however, we invested in rebuilding Germany . . . and are now allied with them. So i am unclear of the complaint. Save — war is a nasty nasty nasty business best avoided. but when faced with one who makes war as Germany did in Europe, as japan did in Asia, as North vietnam did to S. Vietnam and Russia is currently doing in Ukraine . . . the choice is not always one that can be avoided.

    You insist on keeping the kosher foundational myth. You can’t even write “your” language properly. You even attempt to lecture me on Vietnamese history with this:

    I will take a jab at it. Say 700 years of division and internal conflict and a weariness of occupation.

    “A jab”. Well, dear little racially ambiguous man, I have Vietnamese friends from both sides and the intelligent people from the loser side actually realize what a scam it all was and are moving back to their ancestral land. “People” like you are the reason I do not see anything coming or being related to the anglos as proper humans.

    Germany started the war! Japan started the war! Damn Vietnamese gooks started the war! These fucking sucky sucky gooks need to accept the “white man” election, under the conspicuous watch of our nigger soldiers!

    HAH!

    And the boomers here expect me to treat your lots with respect!

    You will see hellfire and retribution like never before. Your (((legacy))) will be wiped out. And because your shithole country is protestant, I’m certain most of you are going to hell. No klaus schwab, no cyborg fantasy to save you. Only an eternity of well-deserved suffering. Enjoy being another fake country that disappears after a few centuries of racially questionable existence.

    China, Russia, Vietnam, Germany, Iran, Europe, Korea, etc.
    Will continue to exist. The Satanic Jewish States of the mulatto Union, a.k.a the USA, will cease to be, a fake joke like Yugoslavia was. Your “founding fathers” will be as remembered as Tito. Who was a better man than any of your slave-owning “Christian” founders tbh.

  185. granted out — i need to work on proof reading and correcting.

    yet, in all of your response, not a word of refuting the actual content. if you have information t5hat contradicts my comments — you are welcome to present it.

    Unfortunately some people have been convinced it was a scam. That is of course quite contrary to the evidence.

    you asked a very direct question . . . why nationalism of say Ho chi mien and others. I hate to break the news to you — it’s not a secret why.

    appreciate the reminder to attend to my writing

    • Replies: @HeebHunter
  186. @EliteCommInc.

    yet, in all of your response, not a word of refuting the actual content. if you have information t5hat contradicts my comments — you are welcome to present it.

    Because your worldview is as ridiculous as the Holohoax. If you haven’t noticed, we are all very tired of Holohoax, and similar bullshit stories. Especially after the Corona Hoax, we are DONE!
    I’m not going to cite the entire journey of HCM, the cause of ww1/ww2, Saddam’s WMD hoax, etc.
    You are a duck. The information will just run off your head.

    I only pity your kind that you will burn in hell, always wondering why you are all in hell, such good little soldiers of Israel, fighting filthy krauts, chinks, gooks, vatniks, ragheads, etc. Why would God let your country destroy itself, and send of your souls to hell? After all, you helped (((communism))) only to fight against “communism”!

    All the critics on Unz are right, and I personally think they are too lenient. The USA must be actively sabotaged. It is an anti-freedom, anti-God satanic country. Its population only ever lives on through lies and perversion. There is literally no hope, no ray of light. And much of this is well deserved.

    Oh btw, I think probably saw one of the unmarked graves of the missing POWs/worthless methheads when I visited Vietnam. Some ethnic folks where I went used a hole on the ground as a garbage dump. They told me there were dead GIs there and showed me the green helmets! They probably got the treatment they deserved! Likely a knife chop to the head, like how those people do it usually.

  187. All main stream media is Jewish Pravda Media. It is just a fact of life since long time ago, for at least 100 years.

  188. @Wizard of Oz

    I had the same reaction to reading his interesting point as when at the age of 17 I read about the difference it made that Napoleon’s troops were manoeuvring into line at double time while the Prussians were still using slow march time.

    Sorry, can you please clarify to whom you were responding?

    I may be mistaken, but it appears that you responded to the wrong comment (i.e. the link in Zachary Smith’s post had to do with the history of rubber:https://www.turmerry.com/blogs/dreamerry/history-of-rubber).

    I mention this because I would like to find out to whom you are referring when you say “his interesting point,” but I have no way of doing that as your reply is written.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  189. @Drive-by poster

    The interesting point was the observation or speculation that the time needed to gear up production of synthetic rubber by the US may have been time that was taken in legitimate delay of the Second Front.

    In fact here it is from Patrick McNally

    “But that probably had a good bit of influence on the decision of when to make an all-out landing a la Normandy”.

    Good point! I couldn’t immediately find any numbers for the individual years, but did run into this:

    • Replies: @Drive-by poster
  190. Hibernian says:
    @Observator

    …incorruptible patriots…

    For which read Stalinist gangsters who, after winning, would put their countrymen in re-education, i.e. concentation, camps. Along with innocent people, which is why I abhor Operation Phoenix and the CIA, as it has been constituted, almost as much as I abhor people like you.

  191. Hibernian says:
    @mulga mumblebrain

    Having been a POW wouldn’t boost your chances of living to a ripe old age. A few are quite likely still alive.

    • Replies: @mulga mumblebrain
  192. Hibernian says:
    @mulga mumblebrain

    The findings in those archives, released by Russians and disemminated by Americans, were admissions against interest by both nations’ elites.

    • Replies: @mulga mumblebrain
  193. james1 says:
    @Briggs

    “—-except for the niggers.”

    As soon as I read that I knew you were a complere racist A\$\$hole ! Clean your mouth out -wanker.

  194. @Wizard of Oz

    The interesting point was the observation or speculation that the time needed to gear up production of synthetic rubber by the US may have been time that was taken in legitimate delay of the Second Front.

    Yes, I understand that bit. What I am wondering is where you read this bit:

    at the age of 17 I read about the difference it made that Napoleon’s troops were manoeuvring into line at double time while the Prussians were still using slow march time.

    If you cannot recall the source, that’s okay. I ask because this sounds like exactly the sort of minor-yet-ultimately-important detail that I enjoy exploring and I am wondering who wrote about it.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  195. @Drive-by poster

    I could start Googling, and I have, but my not very good best is to read of six military paces or marches and to find 28 Prussian inch lockstep here
    https://www.kronoskaf.com/syw/index.php?title=Prussian_Line_Infantry_Drill

    I hope you will find more and tell me where I am weong😉

    • Replies: @Drive-by poster
  196. @Wizard of Oz

    I could start Googling, and I have, but my not very good best is to read of six military paces or marches and to find 28 Prussian inch lockstep here
    https://www.kronoskaf.com/syw/index.php?title=Prussian_Line_Infantry_Drill

    Thank you for the clarification.

    (Now if I can only stay mindful of the fact this was the age of largely smoothbore firearms so that all of these drills, etc. will still make sense.)

  197. @Hibernian

    Against the Soviet not against the Yeltsin Quisling regime, ergo highly suspect.

  198. @Hibernian

    Probably married to a local, with kids and grand-children, and NO interest in returning to the moronic inferno that is the USA.

  199. @anarchyst

    At least I am capable of thinking-more or less.

  200. Was there ever a follow up with the Vietnamese to corroborate this travesty?
    There must have been low level and high level North Vietnamese so many years after the war that talked about this.

    • Agree: Wizard of Oz
  201. Radpat01 says:

    In his lust for power and wealth McCain gave us 8 years of Obama and the proof is in the congressional record and easy to find. John McCain was not born in the US so he had an eligibility problem that was “fixed” by senate Res 511 declaring him to be a Natural Born Citizen. The interesting part is that it was not sponsored by a Republican but rather Claire Mcaskill ( D ) and co sponsored by Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama himself. A classic treasonous quid pro quo with billion dollar defense contracts ( eg. Boeing Co. ) and the USURpation of the office of the President of The United States of America in the mix.

    • Replies: @anarchyst
  202. @HeebHunter

    Another pathetic antisemitic loser.

  203. Agent76 says:

    September 06, 2013 Senator John McCain, Foreign Relations “Adviser” to Al Qaeda Death Squads in Syria

    Senator John McCain is a criminal who provided support to terrorist groups. He belongs in jail, not in the US Senate. And certainly not in the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations which has granted Obama the “Green Light” to bomb Syria.

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/senator-john-mccain-foreign-relations-adviser-to-al-qaeda-death-squads-in-syria/5348383

  204. anarchyst says:
    @Radpat01

    There are many “native born” Americans who were born outside the country and are just as eligible to run for president as any American born on native soil.
    All it takes is a “Consular Certificate of Birth” which is applied for at any embassy or consulate around the world.
    There was no need for McCain to establish his native-born status. If there was any Congressional intervention, it was all for show.

    • Replies: @The Davidtollah
  205. This book is in my ready rack (along with about 40 others). I’ll probably get to it next after having read this article!

  206. @anarchyst

    “Natural born” citizenship status (the constitutional standard, not “native”) is citizenship acquired by birthright – being born to one or two citizen-parents, or being born in the country (a person born in the country is also “native born”, but, as mentioned above, that is not the standard). All other citizens are “naturalized” (confusing the situation), a civil process by which a non-citizen becomes a citizen.

    If you’re wondering about Obama, he had to fake a US birth certificate, because although his mother was a US citizen, at the time law required residency qualifications that she did not meet. If I recall correctly, the law required continuous 5 years’ residency in the United States after or including one’s 18th birthday by the time of the birth of the child. His mother hadn’t yet qualified at the time of his birth, so little Barry wasn’t a “natural born”. Thus, the faked birth certificate, because he was born in Kenya, and therefore didn’t qualify due to his place of birth. Funny thing is, he could have claimed citizenship through his father, because his father was an American communist named Frank Marshal Davis. But he had aspirations that would have been thwarted if he had admitted his dad was a commie. So he developed the fake “foreign dad” and fake “born in Hawaii” stories. The former to conceal his real dad and the latter to claim the citizenship that he wasn’t able to claim through his mother alone.

  207. OddJob says:

    I personally listened to John McCain’s “confession” on Radio Hanoi in 1969 on shortwave radio live around 2AM EST just before Christmas, where he was likely coerced into saying he was a war criminal. It was re-broadcast seeveral times by them. I have heard since then that no recording exists except by a CIA station or two, which will never see the light of day. I didn’t hold it against him, but his carefully deliberate classifying of POW info files told me all I wanted to know. I believe those files have never been released.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  208. MadCat2 says:
    @IronForge

    There was a reason McStain was known as “Songbird”.

  209. My cousin Elizabeth wrote this book. I was named after her father my great uncle Lt. Col. Peter J. Stewart. He was MIA/POW for 50 years. They found his remains in 2018. He was a veteran of WWII, Korea, and Vietnam! He was an immigrant, brother, husband, and son. Born in Glasgow, Scotland and immigrated to Queens, NY. His brother my grandfather John Stewart was the President of the Long Island Trials Lawyers Association for 25 years! We are a family of proud patriots ! Sadly my Uncle was not the son or grandson of Admirals. So I guess his life didn’t matter. John Sydney McCain is a POS!!! He and John Kerry actively worked against our family and so many other MIA/POW families. They need to be held accountable accountable in the annuals of history. Spread the word! John McCain was not a good man!

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  210. Anonymous[387] • Disclaimer says:
    @OddJob

    I have heard since then that no recording exists except by a CIA station or two, which will never see the light of day.

    https://www.unz.com/announcement/john-mccains-tokyo-rose-propaganda-broadcast-now-found-and-released/

    Unfortunately, the recording embedded in this article is now marked as private.

  211. Anonymous[387] • Disclaimer says:
    @Peter J Stewart

    Re Col. Stewart:

    In 1972, the Defense Department received a report from a refugee who stated he was shown the crash site and the graves of the two pilots. He stated that Stewart’s plane was the only plane shot down in that area, but could not specify the date or year. The DOD added, “POSS DEAD IR1516032672.” This report was disproven in 1986 on the basis that their plane was not the only one shot down in the area (in fact there were several), but the data remark remained, and the Air Force cannot verify why the “only plane” statement was made.

    In 1985, a returned POW recalled that Peter Stewart’s name was one of those passed around in POW camps before Americans were released in 1973. In 1975, the Stewart family identified a photo of a prisoner of war as Peter Stewart.

    https://www.pownetwork.org/bios/s/s069.htm

  212. @Wizard of Oz

    ‘I wouldn’t have been aware of a counter argument until recently when I came across the argument that, even though US and British bombing of Germany was inefficiently inaccurate it made a very big contribution to the Red Army’s success because of the immense diversion of German resources to anti aircraft defence.’

    On reflection, I think that argument has some validity — although I suspect the Western Allies devoted more of their war effort to bombing Germany than the Germans had to divert to combat it. Fifteen-year-old Flak helpers and seventy-year old air wardens would have been of limited utility in staving off the Red Army. The same goes for all the sacks of concrete for air raid shelters and 88 mm anti-aircraft guns; of some value but not really cutting edge.

    On the other hand, the Western Allies devoted the best of the best to their air war; the bright young men who could have been commanding infantry companies, the intelligent ground crew who could have been NCO’s, and the best of their technology and industry to make all those sophisticated and expensive aircraft.

    • Replies: @Wielgus
  213. @Timur The Lame

    Sgt Barry Sadler

    I found it somehow mysterious that his (somewhat popular, and certainly memorable) song was ERASED 100% from the radio circa mid 1970’s. And was criticized a few years later if even mentioned at all. Thankfully I have the 45.

    I clearly see why nowadays.

  214. @EliteCommInc.

    Russia did not create the war in Ukraine, there’s been a civil war there for eight years since the zionist/CIA coup in 2014, when the US zionists/CIA turned Ukraine into an aggressive, anti-Russia vassal with NATO pretensions. The Donbas, which Russia is liberating as I type, was scheduled for ethnic cleansing / genocide in March this year by Ukraine’s NATO-trained-and-supplied army, all of which gave Russia no choice but to intervene.

    For further details on the American coup of 2014, see Oliver Stone’s excellent documentary, Ukraine on Fire: https://www.bitchute.com/video/l7n6nBoJ6nMS/.

    For a rough analogy to Ukraine, imagine America’s reaction if China pulled off a coup in Mexico, and the new, Chinese-run Mexican government started persecuting Americans in Mexico including torturing and killing them in secret prisons, while Mexico was in a partial military alliance with China, and Mexico kept moving towards a full military alliance with China and installing Chinese nukes on Mexican soil pointed at America. I think America would invade in a heartbeat before most of that had a chance to happen; Russia has been very patient these last eight years.

    • Agree: Deep Thought
    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  215. “Russia did not create the war in Ukraine, there’s been a civil war there for eight years since the zionist/CIA coup in 2014, when the US zionists/CIA turned Ukraine into an aggressive, anti-Russia vassal with NATO pretensions.”

    Not ignoring you, just preoccupied at the moment. I do have a response(s). Obviously it will be in disagreement on several points.

  216. “Russia did not create the war in Ukraine, there’s been a civil war there for eight years since the zionist/CIA coup in 2014, when the US zionists/CIA turned Ukraine into an aggressive, anti-Russia vassal with NATO pretensions. The Donbas, which Russia is liberating as I type, was scheduled for ethnic cleansing / genocide in March this year by Ukraine’s NATO-trained-and-supplied army, all of which gave Russia no choice but to intervene.”

    Oyyyyy and oy.

    Not this nonsense again. The US has not carried a successful coupe of a country since 2003 invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan. the constant haranguing about US led coupes is great propaganda for the CIA and more so for those that love to blame the US for their own dysfunctional systems. Even Libya was jot a coupe.

    [MORE]

    The US supports a faction in a particular internal power struggle. but that is not the same thing as actually implementing a coupe. It’s rare if it happens at all. Despite CIA support, the MEK have yet to regain power in Iran by way of a coupe. It did not happen in Syria. Way happened in Ukraine had been happening repeatedly over a period years. that tensions over corruption spilled out into public unrest. And in the wake of the last, there was finger pointing that Russian backed factions were responsible for a host of ills including corruption and keeping Ukraine under t6he thumb of Russia, when the majority of the population desired to break ties and maintain their independence leaning more in t5he direct other former Russian colonies. Russia, the US NATO and the EU all desiring to support vied and supported factions they thought in their best interests. The side that was supported by Russia lost. now one can fi=uss about whether the US should have been involved at all. But the resulting violence was not unique to western involvement. Ukrainians had been battling out these issues via unrest for twenty years or more. Given the issues, i8ncluding which language would be the official language for years. The fact that we sided with a certain faction that prevailed — is not akin to the US instigating or launching a coupe.

    These scenarios have played out among nations for centuries. And the case of the US, the evidence that the US has overthrown a polity by way of a coupe is might thread bare.

    Furthermore upon examination, it readily clear that the issues that sparked the civil conflict are not new. And the evidence is clear that Russia with its nuvorusso gambit in Ukraine as well as backing pro-russian forces have engage in their own manipulations of the ukrainians affairs’ and that with more direct involvement than the US. And the Russians have been bombarding Ukraine since 2015.

    I operate in the confines that there are actually some rules regarding foreign affairs’ that matter.

    Since Russia had signed a “friendship agreement” with ukraine aknowledging the integrity of sovereign boundaries — their interference in the regions are unwarranted. if in fact the Donetsk and Donabss sought independence the place to make that argument was innt6he parliamentary processes in ukraine. by doing otherwise, the regions engaged in treason by launching a miliatery attack against the ukraine, leaving the ukrainians very little choice but to respond in kind, if the goal was to maintain Ukrainian territorial integrity.

    ——————–

    i am afraid you are tad late this issue has been proffered. The US has no authority in Mexico to do anything about citizens residing in Mexico. The process would be first to entreat US citizens to flee. The US would facilitate that departure. There is no evidence that the US would seek to partition Mexico on behalf of citizens residing in the same. Asia and Europe both have this peculiar allegiance to some ethnic or national bond to people not residing in the countries the bond is claimed to have originated.

    If US states citizens desire to avioid Mexican persecution by the : government, cartels, kidnappers, etc. It is a good idea to stay out of Mexico. Note: Mexico has repeaytedly barred extradition oof wanted suspects and criminals for crimes committed on US soil, and the UAS has yet to take any steps against Mexcico, hardly a complaint muchless a military invasion o9n the lack or moralo, religious or ethnic grounds and a case for the same exceeds anything as theo4reyical and specilative as the Russian invasion.

    Good greif, a Mexican military or quasi military faction accosted US military personnel on patrol along the border in US territory and the US, under the leadership of executive Trump — nothing.

    The US conduct on this question is a very poor example as it rebuffs in real and theory the suggestion in full. And despite the calls of the current admin as Nazis — their enforvcenent or respect for US sovereignty is even less than that of republicans and even if possible – liberal churches.

    Mexico and china are already allied

    https://www.pacificcouncil.org/newsroom/mexico-china-relations

    whether said dynamic will become military in nature, I suspedct is a foregone conclusion.

    Thewre are no misslies in ukraine with niclear capability pointed at Russia . . .

    • Thanks: Wizard of Oz
  217. @Drive-by poster

    ‘…It took a combination of the Russians draining away German strength on the Ostfront and the Allies getting better at using their men and equipment that made Operation Overlord the success it was two years later. Spending two years fighting the Germans in North Africa gave the Allies the experience they so badly needed before they could land in France with a good chance of success…’

    For the Americans, try seven months fighting the Germans in North Africa, not two years.

    You also overlook the fact that the Allies fought and beat the Germans in 1943 — in North Africa, Sicily, and Italy. The Salerno landings in particular saw the Americans facing serious German opposition — and prevailing.

    There were hiccups, but I think the assumption that a 1943 landing in France was a doomed proposition isn’t viable. Equally to the point, even a more serious threat of the same (or a second front in Spain) would have done more to draw off German strength from the Eastern Front than the militarily ineffectual if murderous bombing campaigns of 1943.

  218. Wielgus says:
    @Colin Wright

    The US and British air rews were often of startlingly good quality. Navigators for example needed quite superior mathematics skills to complete training. So many aircrew were killed – the waste of human potential was stark.

  219. @AlexanderEngUK

    ‘For a rough analogy to Ukraine, imagine America’s reaction if China pulled off a coup in Mexico, and the new, Chinese-run Mexican government started persecuting Americans in Mexico including torturing and killing them in secret prisons, while Mexico was in a partial military alliance with China, and Mexico kept moving towards a full military alliance with China and installing Chinese nukes on Mexican soil pointed at America. I think America would invade in a heartbeat before most of that had a chance to happen; Russia has been very patient these last eight years.’

    The irony is that you understate things.

    Mexico is far more culturally, ethnically, and historically distinct from the United States than the Ukraine is from Russia.

    No analogy is completely satisfactory, but the Ukraine’s a bit like a wife who’s decided to get out of a bad marriage after twenty years. Maybe she’s right — but to pretend that she and Russia are strangers is ridiculous.

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