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Heide Goebbels
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“I shall not attempt to comment on that chapter.  If you can read it without catharsis, you have lost the ability to comprehend tragedy….  One can foresee a time when conscientious American parents may have the same concern for their children.” — Revilo P. Oliver.[1]Liberty Bell, February 1988, p. 8, in a review of Hans Baur’s Mit Mächtigen zwischen Himmel und Erde.

The above quote of Frau Goebbels fits into the part of Professor Oliver’s quote that I elided.

This is why I had to set video as a priority.  It is also my first newbie foray into video editing.  I did all of the video-editing part with ffmpeg; it required enough time to make this tardy, and effort greater than the results.  I need to switch to an NLE.

Kleine Heide, we shall forever remember you, your family, and your nation. ®


[1] Liberty Bell, February 1988, p. 8, in a review of Hans Baur’s Mit Mächtigen zwischen Himmel und Erde.

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  1. Raches says: • Website

    This is a memorial page.  It is not an appropriate place for debate.

    As in the previous memorial thread, comments here shall be moderated according to the very strictest standards of courtesy and respectfulness towards the subject, her family, and her culture.  Civilized people understand that regardless of one’s opinion, crashing a memorial service is just beyond the pale of unacceptable behavior.

    Those who are unable to behave in an appropriate manner will be censored, and, if I see fit, perhaps may find themselves altogether banned from Proems. ®

  2. Thank you for the video Raches. It was very touching, and
    the end was unexpected.

    • Thanks: Raches
  3. Good enough as far as it goes; I largely agree with the point, and in fact, I’ve bookmarked the post.


    [Raches says:  Although I thank you for your kind words, and you are more respectful than the vicious, hateful comments in my moderation queue, this page is a memorial service—not an appropriate venue for debate.  I will publish your comment this way, with my very brief off-the-cuff response inserted here, such that you and others can see that I can answer it—and such that you should better understand why I am censoring you.


    I am glad that you know of Degrelle’s children.  Perhaps consider that after Degrelle’s wife was arrested and died in prison for no reason (a fate shared by his parents), Degrelle’s eight children were scattered into abusive orphanages and institutions for the mentally retarded—just to put them down, as was the common practice with SS children in some Western European countries.  And although I do not know the details, I gather that Degrelle was only able to retrieve his children because he had comrades who, I infer, must have been willing to take extreme measures.  And his children only did well because their father was alive, he had asylum that no one would have dared to offer to the Goebbels family, and he was evidently somehow able to get his children brought to him.  Degrelle’s case is not an argument for the safety of high-profile “Nazi” children, but to the contrary.

    Similarly, either contrary to your argument or irrelevant on various grounds are the cases of some other “Nazi” children you mentioned, whose situations were different—and some of who greatly suffered.

    You may also want to look into the cases of numerous SS children who were seized from loving parents, and placed as “orphans” in extremely abusive environments where they were often declared mentally defective on grounds of their “Nazi” parentage.

    Anyway, all of this has little to do with what I believe the Americans call “Monday-morning quarterbacking” about the decisions of people for whom the world was ending.  I am generally contemptuous of “liberals” who whine about so-called “empathy”—but I myself do my best to place myself in Frau Goebbels’ shoes, to feel what she must have felt from the high probability that her children would be seized, enslaved, perhaps used as propaganda puppets, or perhaps humiliated and tormented unspeakably by monsters hopped up on Ilya Ehrenburg’s hate-propaganda—I shudder to contemplate what may have happened, with the options ranging from “bad” to “extremely worse”.

    You can never disprove that probability.  Your idle speculation, from a comfortable distance across space and time, on ways that the Goebbels children could have somehow escaped and maybe somehow had happy lives is entirely meaningless, because Frau Goebbels took the only option that could affirmatively prevent some horrific, very likely potential fates.

    The key point:  Frau Goebbels had a beautiful, positive world.  She bore children into that world, to live in that world with joy.  She raised them with the motherly love that you can see in the above video.  When their whole world, the world that properly belonged to her children, was destroyed before her eyes, she protected them with the only action that could affirmatively take her children beyond the reach of their enemies—vicious, utterly ruthless, depraved enemies—enemies from the West who treated SS children as aforementioned, and enemies from the East who at that moment were gang-raping German girls as young as eight years of age.

    Do not forget that the Goebbels children were a part of the public face of the Reich.  They had appeared in numerous newsreels, due to both of their parents being high-profile National-Socialists.  And amongst them were three girls of ages eight, eleven, and twelve, who were very pretty.  Many horrific fates could likely have befallen them—and at best, they would have struggled and suffered all their lives in the world that came after their world, the world to which they were born.

    Their case is not comparable to any other—and the wisdom of their mother is not to be second-guessed.  They do not belong to you.

    In such a circumstance, to question the judgment of the one person who cared about those children more than anyone else in the world—i.e. their mother, who by every measure was an excellent and loving mother—is at best taking a shallow view of the situation.  And this whole frivolous debate also entirely misunderstands the nature of women.  Inter alia, I was specifically thinking of Frau Goebbels when I recently quoted these lines from Kipling:

    Man, a bear in most relations—worm and savage otherwise,—
    Man propounds negotiations, Man accepts the compromise.
    Very rarely will he squarely push the logic of a fact
    To its ultimate conclusion in unmitigated act. […]

    She who faces Death by torture for each life beneath her breast
    May not deal in doubt or pity—must not swerve for fact or jest.
    These be purely male diversions—not in these her honour dwells.
    She the Other Law we live by, is that Law and nothing else.

    Parenthetically, on a personal note, I remark that when I used to be a Zionist due to being scammed from a young age by Jewish lies, I admired the Jewish families of the Masada, whose (possibly mythical, possibly true) story is a touchstone of Jewish ethnic nationalism.  I aggressively defended them against any attacks on their honor, at which I took personal offense.  As I have previously noted (in the commentary that seemed to make T-L go bonkers on me), I now see the Führerbunker similarly to how I previously saw the Masada, and the Goebbels family similarly to how I previously saw the Masada families.  And I will do no less for the widely-defamed martyrs of German ethnic nationalism than I previously did for the widely-hailed martyrs of Jewish ethnic nationalism!

    You can see that even briefly, off-the-cuff, I can answer your comment.  I censor it, and I will withhold any similar comments or continuation of this discussion, because debate is socially inappropriate at a memorial service.  These memorial pages are my public way of lighting a candle, holding a moment of silence, and speaking some kind words in memory of the dead, as for some years I have done privately for the Goebbels children and for their parents.  — Raches. ®]

    1. How did putting Heide to death prevent the future we see now?

    2. Life does go on. Patricians contemplating the ruin of Rome after the Vandals sacked it probably despaired as well — but civilization really did revive. Got better, I’d say. Admittedly, it took a thousand years or so, but…

    3. It is possible — particularly for children — to surmount almost anything. Edda Goering managed to grow up and live her life with dignity. As an extreme, see Ilse Stritzke’s memoir Nightmares of an East Prussian Childhood: a Memoir of the Russian Occupation. It’s about as one might guess — but Strizke did survive to adulthood and seems to have had a reasonably happy life.

    Surely Frau Goebbels could have just taken her children to Switzerland. I doubt they would have wound up being put in cages. To take another example, the family of the Belgian Rexist leader and commander of SS Wallonien Leon Degrelle was ferociously persecuted after the war — but I believe eventually they were all reunited in Spain.

    Heide’s fate is touching — but surely it is better for children to live than to die. According to Wikipedia, Degrelle attended his daughter’s wedding in 1969.

    • Disagree: Raches
    • Replies: @surly
  4. The world that the Goebbels feared is very real, and always right under the surface, for now. I have three children who would fit very well into the video in place of a Goebbels child. Bringing children into this world was a difficult decision for me, and I do fear for their future.

    • Thanks: Raches
    • Replies: @Raches
  5. Raches says: • Website

    An important point:  You seem alert and willing to struggle for the future of your children.

    I do not want to be mistaken for giving an antinatalist message generally:  If all Aryans (and especially racialists) were voluntarily to stop reproducing, that would obviously be a great victory for their enemies.  I am against those who are so cruel and thoughtless as to create Hell on Earth, and then bring their own children into it; cf. Professor Oliver’s scathing condemnation of white South Africans who bore white children into a country that they were actively voting to hand over to the blacks (Liberty Bell, April 1988, p. 2; December 1987, p. 2).

    That is a big topic; a memorial page is an inappropriate place for covering it (or other related debates), which will not be published here.  For years, I have lit a candle and held a moment of silence annually for each of these children, and for their parents; now that I have a blog, I blog it as bloggers are wont to do.  That is the purpose of these pages:  A memorial service with candles and flowers and memories of the dead from their well-wishers, not a debate.  You and some other commentators have understood that—thank you; some others have not.

    Apropos hereof, my obituary for the dead:  Frau Goebbels actually had for her children such a beautiful country that, from love for your children, you may wish you had.  The world into which she brought her children was murdered.  She and they died with it.  We, who live in the Hell on Earth of the world after, have a duty to immortalize them in our memories.  I will advocate for them, and defend their honor with utmost zealousness, to bring the day when they shall take their proper place in history, and the poets shall sing of their glory and their tragedy.  Those final hours in the Führerbunker, and the lives of those who died there, deserve the epic encomia of a future Homer, for the future rebirth of Western civilization.

    In that spirit, Mr. OilcanFloyd, I thank you for your kind words; and I wish you well to build a better world for your children, and for their children’s children’s children, such that you may attain posterity. ®

    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
  6. Fox says:

    So many things you put in words I recognize as having gone though my own mind, my world is suffused in the same light. The world that could have been has been murdered and we have to endure the thought that we live in the ruins of this once potently becoming world.
    What we do know, however, is that such a world is possible and can be brought into being by a concerted, fearless will.

    • Thanks: Raches
  7. @Raches

    Thank you for your kind words and wishes. All the best to you, as well.

  8. Fox says:

    I would really like to see the video dedicated to Heide Goebbels, but it is not available today. Yesterday, when attempting to open it, the ‘wheel of death” appeared and nothing happened. Has it been removed or been disabled?

    • Replies: @Raches
  9. Raches says: • Website

    Thanks for the report.  I just tested it myself, and did some censorship checks with various IP addresses.  I do not see any reason why you should have a problem.  Please try again, or right-click/“Save as…” to download the video (only about 10.7 MiB). ®

    • Replies: @Fox
  10. Fox says:

    thank you. ‘Right click – save’ worked.
    Best regards.

  11. niceland says:

    To the victims of WW2.
    Patricia Janečková: Letzte Rose
    (The English subtitles don’t do this justice)

    • Replies: @Raches
  12. Raches says: • Website

    Thanks for the poignant music.  Appropriate.

    The English is actually the original—a poem by Thomas Moore.  The German lyrics are a poetic translation by Friedrich von Flotow for Martha.  It is perforce not a literal translation—thus, the apparent mismatch between lines of English and German.  You may view the two side by side, at a quite apolitical folk-song site is apparently altogether illegal to link in “liberated” Germany.

    Europe was always “international” in its own way—an intra-European cultural internationalism.  As high culture always leads popular culture, so also does it draw inspiration therefrom, forming a feedback loop; and the European upper classes were always in more or less close cultural communication.  From my own classical music training, I have pondered how the bourrée, gavotte, and gigue (jig), etc. brought folk-dance tunes from multiple European nations into some of the greatest instrumental compositions of German high culture.  It is no surprise here to find a poem by an Irishman translated to German by a German composer, with an operatic adaptation of Irish folk music, sung by a Slovak.  Heil Europa. ®

    • Thanks: niceland
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