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The Cost of Big Pharma’s Covid-19 Vaccine Will be Paid in Lives and in Billions of Dollars
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Big Pharma and its minions such as Anthony Fauci and Robert Redfield are determined to use Covid-19 to vaccinate us all at the expense our lives and pocketbooks. They are using the media, grant-dependent professionals, medical journals, and the presstitute media to conduct a campaign of disinformation about an inexpensive and successful treatment in order to pave the way for a likely unsuccessful, possibly dangerous, but very profitable vaccine.

The successful treatment is hydroxychloroquine-azithromycin and zinc. Hydroxychlorquine has been used for decades to treat malaria, lupus, and rheumatoid arthritis and has a decades long record of safety. Despite its record of safe useage, Big Pharma and its hired hands have concocted a disinformation story that if you take it you will have a heart attack. As Trump endorsed hydroxychloroquine, everyone who is against Trump for other reasons has picked up Big Pharma’s line as it is another avenue toward the goal of discrediting Trump.

The fact of the matter is that medical doctors involved with Covid-19 treatment report highly successful results with hydroxychloroquine. I have posted a number of reports in which doctors and renowned scientists report the effectiveness and general safety of hydroxychloroquine.

See, for example:

https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2020/04/11/professor-didier-raoult-releases-the-results-of-a-new-hydroxychloroquine-treatment-study-on-1061-patients/

https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2020/05/06/why-was-an-effective-cure-for-covid-19-withheld/

The reported success of vitamin C in the treatment of Covid-19 is also subjected to disinformation by Big Pharma and its minions.

The obvious disinformation campaign against successful and inexpensive treatments of Covid-19 has led many to the conclusion that the Covid-19 “pandemic was pre-planned from the beginning” ( see for example, https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/05/no_author/modern-medicine-attempts-to-closet-hydroxychloroquine-hcq-forgo-targeted-therapy-of-high-risk-groups-in-setup-for-mass-vaccination/ ).

Whether pre-planned or not, Big Pharma and Bill Gates intend to cash in big time with a Covid-19 vaccine. In effect, Big Pharma and Bill Gates and their associated scum are murderers. They are killing people with their campaign against effective and affordable treatment.

This might strike some gullible people who trust the system as an excessive accusation, but Big Pharma has long made it clear that profit comes before life. Dr. Peter C. Gotzsche, professor of clinical research, director of the Nordic Cochrane Center, and chief physician of Rigshospitalet and the University of Copenhagen has documented that Big Pharma’s “medicines” are the third largest killer after heart disease and cancer ( https://www.amazon.co.uk/Deadly-Medicines-Organised-Crime-Healthcare/dp/1846198844/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=deadly+medicines+and+organised+crime&qid=1589058630&s=books&sr=1-1 ).

We have been sold on vaccines in the face of evidence of the harm they do to some people and the fact that they are used despite an imperfect understanding of the human immune system. Moreover, coronaviruses are not of a class that permits effective vaccines.

But we are going to get one whether or not it is effective and whether or not we want to be vaccinated. Bill Gates is working to make sure vaccination is mandatory for all. Otherwise you cannot leave your home or your FEMA containment center. Money is pouring not into known effective treatment but into vaccine research as companies and countries race for a patent. Bill Sardi reports that Chicago has “already purchased the syringes and spotted locations for vaccination stations” ( https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/05/no_author/modern-medicine-attempts-to-closet-hydroxychloroquine-hcq-forgo-targeted-therapy-of-high-risk-groups-in-setup-for-mass-vaccination/ ).

Americans need to come to grips with how money has corrupted everything. So many of the people and institutions we formerly relied on to speak truthfully are now dependent on grants from corporations, government agencies, and self-interested donors with agendas that truth is the casualty. Yes, scientists will now lie for money. Universities will produce “studies” that advance the donor’s agenda. Physicists dependent on Washington’s grants will hold their tongues when presented with obviously false claims such as massively constructed steel buildings built to withstand airliner collision collapsing into dust because of isolated low temperature fires and strikes by flimsy aluminum airplanes.

There are a number of ways that studies can be designed to produce a conclusion that a specific treatment is or is not effective. Consider hydroxychloroquine. A study can get poor results from this treatment by using it as a late stage treatment when Covid-19 has advanced beyond treatment. This appears to be the case with the New England Journal of Medicine report that “hydroxychloroquine use was not associated with a significantly higher or lower risk of intubation or death” ( https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2012410 ).

Like any disease, successful treatment needs to begin early, not at a late stage. The many doctors who report success with hydroxychloroquine stress that the treatment should begin early and not be used only as a last resort. It turns out that the NEJM study was funded by the National Institute of Health, a Big Pharma influenced organization that is hostile to a cure as opposed to a vaccine. It is also curious that the article, “Observational Study of Hydroxychloroquine in Hospitalized Patients with Covid-19,” was quickly published in a few weeks instead of the usual lengthy time required to clear the peer-reviewed process. And it is also curious that many were primed to use the study to discredit hydroxychloroquine despite the inconclusive study.

A corrupt establishment and media that can sell us 9/11, Saddam Hussein’s weapons of mass destruction, Iranian nukes, Assad’s use of chemical weapons, a Russian invasion of Ukraine, Russiagate and a large number of other lies can also sell us on locking up a successful treatment in the closet while we await a vaccine.

ORDER IT NOW

Many decades ago George Stigler at the University of Chicago said that the trouble with regulation is that all regulatory agencies end up captured by the businesses they are tasked with regulating. Thus we see that the EPA is in the hands of polluters, bank regulation is in the hands of bankers, telecommunication regulations—5G for example—is in the hands of tech companies who stand to profit, and approval of new medicines is in the hands of Big Pharma as is the curriculum in medical schools. Doctors are trained to connect symptoms with tests and when confirmed by a test, the doctor looks up online the specified Big Pharma treatment.

My generation grew up without vaccines and without all of the associated illnesses associated with vaccines among the over-vaccinated youth of today. Today vaccinations begin at birth and increase into high numbers. Does the natural immune system ever develop?

That is an irrelevant question. The driving force behind vaccination is profit, not health. If we want a health system instead of a death system, Big Pharma must be nationalized and run by scientists on salaries without patent rights and “performance bonuses.”

(Republished from PaulCraigRoberts.org by permission of author or representative)
 
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  1. anonymous[400] • Disclaimer says:

    The experts in lab coats fomenting fear and advising us what to do are usually on someone’s payroll. Experts are for sale; cigarette companies had doctors claiming it wasn’t proven that smoking caused cancer and other quack nonsense. Gates engaged in monopolistic type practices when he was involved with computing. He’s now an expert on everything, education, world population, virology, etc. Anything he’s involved with should be viewed with suspicion, especially his blatant attempt to corner the vaccination market. The greed of these sociopaths is unlimited. Fear and panic is what they’re using as a tool to corral a gullible public. This scamdemic is a cover for yet one more money and power grab.

    • Replies: @obwandiyag
  2. jsinton says:

    Bill Gates is the anti-Christ. Don’t laugh or disregard. It’s too creepy with too many coincidences.

    “He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.”

    Bill Gates wants everyone marked with a luminecent die to indicate they have been vaccinated. The vaccine is known as “Patent 666”. You will need the mark to go shopping, or be in public.

    “Microsoft’s patent for cryptocurrency system that uses body activity data, and its March 26, 2020 publication date

    Look up this MICROSOFT Patent, W02020060606. Notice the 60606 in it, like 666. This patent has to do with the human body, and currency, which connects with Revelation and the mark of the beast, which relates to a person’s ability to buy or sell.

    Microsoft crypto currency WO2020060606 system using body activity data

    Patent number WO2020060606
    Got that 666 number in there didn’t he!”

    The substance you will be “marked” with is called “LUCIFERase”

    How many more coincidences do you need?

    • Replies: @JasonT
    , @Exile
    , @Rashkae
  3. @anonymous

    So you’re a cigarette denier. Or you would have been back when they paid doctors to praise them.

    You are the kind who would have said, back when the news that cigarettes cause cancer came out, you are the kind who would have said it’s a big conspiracy to take away our freedom to smoke cigarettes, there’s nothing wrong with cigarettes, in fact, cigarettes are good for you.

    You are a typical denier lunatic. There’s a lunatic born every minute, and a lot of people make a lot of money off of suckering the lunatic likes of you.

  4. Franz says:

    The reported success of vitamin C in the treatment of Covid-19 is also subjected to disinformation by Big Pharma and its minions.

    Yes indeed: Big Pharma can’t put a patent on nature.

    Dr. Richard Cheng has been spreading the word on this for months. And he’s a hands-on physician who worked in Shanghai when it was at its height. so he knows his stuff. He’s made plenty of videos on it, here’s one:

    Hospital treatment of COVID-19 with high-dose Vit C. PhD Richard Cheng

    • Agree: jsinton
    • Replies: @GeeBee
  5. JasonT says:
    @jsinton

    Just to clear up some misconceptions about the W0 2020/060606 document. Here is a link:
    https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=WO2020060606&tab=PCTBIBLIO

    This is an international patent application. It is not yet a granted patent anywhere in the world.

    Nevertheless, there is another interesting number associated with the international patent application – the filing date is June 20, 2019. June is the sixth month, therefore coupled with the publication number there are four 06’s and three 20’s. The bible says that the number of the beast is ‘six hundred three score and six’, i.e. 600 + 3*20 + 6.

    There is an equivalent U.S. patent application published in March 26, 2020 under publication number US 20200097951, which also has not yet issued to patent. Here is the link:
    http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.html&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PG01&S1=138518.APN.&OS=apn/138518&RS=APN/138518

    On a final note, the patent application says nothing about vaccines. The claims indicate that body activity is communicated to the processors through a ‘device of the user’, which can be presumed to be a smartphone, but could be any implanted device.

    • Replies: @jsinton
  6. onebornfree says: • Website

    “If we want a health system instead of a death system, Big Pharma must be nationalized and run by scientists”

    Oh my gawd. Spoken like a true halfwit. So you want the likes of Pelosi, Schumer, Schiff , Trump and the rest of the government scumbags “running” “healthcare”, along with your so-called “scientific experts”? We already have this [its called socialized healthcare], and you want even more of it?

    This is called “going full retard.” [i.e. standard operating procedure for died-in -the -wool socialists everywhere].

    Here’s an idea: let individuals freely choose what/who they want to use as doctors, and what treatments they wish to take by those doctors. It’s called a free market in health care choices.

    No regards, onebornfree

    • Replies: @davidgmillsatty
  7. onebornfree says: • Website

    “Here’s an idea: let individuals freely choose what/who they want to use as doctors, and what treatments they wish to take by those doctors. It’s called a free market in health care choices.”

    To further clarify, I mean: get the government entirely out of all healthcare. [And welfare, social security, medicare, medicaid etc. etc. etc., to boot].

    Regards, onebornfree

  8. Exile says:
    @jsinton

    Please tell me you’re irony-trolling. If so, well-played. If not…

    Why do the masterminds of these Matrix-level reality manipulations always leave some symbolic red flag for conspiritards to follow?

    For the power of the occult symbology, no doubt…

    Otherwise, I’m pretty sure Lucifer would be smarter than to leave “666” all over his handiwork. How’s the Devil supposed to convince us he doesn’t exist if he keeps leaving “666” breadcrumbs for everyone to follow?

    But then again, maybe that’s part of the disinformation to throw us off the scent? Who would suspect the Devil would be that obvious?

    Wow, so meta…. Infinity-dimension chess!

    There are many legitimate conspiracies out there – you guys aren’t making it any easier to identify and publicize them.

    • Replies: @JasonT
  9. JasonT says:
    @Exile

    The choice of publication number of a patent application is not up to any person. Numbers are assigned sequentially based on the order of filing a patent application. Gates has no control over the actual number assigned.

    God, however, does, because – He is God. Rather than the number being some kind of ‘mistake’ by the humans carrying out the plan of Satan, it is a message from God to help identify the Beast in accordance with the prophecies of John in Revelation.

  10. anon[230] • Disclaimer says:

    Having been deeply critical of your other articles on Covid-19, I must now say Bravo! Great article. I couldn’t agree more. Keep it up.

  11. @onebornfree

    How about a law that disallows corporate patents?

    • Replies: @onebornfree
  12. swamped says:

    “A corrupt establishment and media that can sell us 9/11, Saddam Hussein’s weapons of mass destruction, Iranian nukes, Assad’s use of chemical weapons, a Russian invasion of Ukraine, Russiagate and a large number of other lies can also sell us on locking up a successful treatment in the closet while we await a vaccine”…and even more importantly, locking ourselves up at the same time while we await a silver bullet to end our misery – from our own gun or their’s. Kudos.

    • Agree: St-Germain
  13. anonymous[400] • Disclaimer says:
    @obwandiyag

    You are a stupid troll who adds nothing. Go away.

  14. I tried to share this article to Facebook and got this message:

    “Your message couldn’t be sent because it includes content that other people on Facebook have reported as abusive.”

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    , @Republic
  15. This is a little apples to oranges, but you’ll get the idea:

    200 mg Hydroxychloroquine -> $0.37 per dose, which for many could be administered on an outpatient basis.

    Cost of ten day treatment with Remdesivir -> $9.32 to manufacture, but rumoured it will be marked up to as much as $4,500.00 + cost of hospital stay for it to be intravenously administered.

    It ain’t just Big Pharma, PCR, it’s Big Med.

    As for vaccines, they aren’t a big profit centre unless there is huge volume, so you’re clearly on to something.

  16. Rashkae says:
    @jsinton

    Covid19 numerology:

    [MORE]

    COVID

    C-100 in Roman numerals = 100
    0 = nulla n=14+u=21+L=12+L=12+a=1= 60
    V-5 in Roman numerals = 5
    I-1 in Roman numerals = 1
    D-500in Roman numerals = 500
    Total = 666

    EVENT 201

    e=5
    v=22
    e=5
    n=14
    t=20
    = 66

    66 + 201 = 267: 2+6+7= 15: 1+5 = 6

    Quantum dot = THE MARK OF THE BEAST!

    • Replies: @jsinton
    , @The Alarmist
  17. If we want a health system instead of a death system, Big Pharma must be nationalized and run by scientists on salaries without patent rights and “performance bonuses.”

    You mean something like NHS?

  18. Today vaccinations begin at birth and increase into high numbers. Does the natural immune system ever develop?

    The natural immune system is precisely what vaccines activate.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @fredtard
    , @Franz
  19. jsinton says:
    @JasonT

    Thanks for the info. Did you have some insight on the “LUCIFERase” thing? It’s a “mark” or luminescent dye that interacts with the body and indicate if you are vaccinated or immune. You can’t make this stuff up. Or maybe you can.

    • Replies: @JasonT
  20. jsinton says:
    @Rashkae

    You can’t make this stuff up.

  21. @Rashkae

    The real number is 19:

    You have to skip to 50:53 in this video to get to the setup, skip to 53:55 to get to the punchline. There is some blather about 1555 in between, but Rev. Farrakhan seems confused in his history of Jamestown, kind of like the NYT.

  22. BuelahMan says:

    PCR has spent thousands of words telling us how bad (and real) the fake plandemic was, but now wants us to take his warning about vaccines. Its as if some geriatric alzheimers patient was given a typewriter.

    We need consistency, not a mixed message.

    • Disagree: jsinton
    • Replies: @JasonT
  23. JasonT says:
    @BuelahMan

    There is no cognitive dissonance between believing that COVID-19 is a real and serious disease and believing that vaccinations could be worse than the disease. It is the same as believing that COVID-19 is a real and serious disease and believing that drinking Lysol is not a curative despite Lysol being an effective disinfectant.

  24. onebornfree says: • Website
    @davidgmillsatty

    “How about a law that disallows corporate patents?”

    A law made by whom, Pelosi, Trump, Pence, Schumer, Schiff and the rest of the lying weasel scumbags? To be finally ruled-on/adjudicated by the lying weasel scumbags at the ” Supreme” court, to whose benefit, exactly?

    You’re either pulling my leg , or hallucinating- I’m not sure which.

    This “just” in:

    “The kind of man who wants the government to adopt and enforce his ideas is always the kind of man whose ideas are idiotic” H.L.Mencken

    “Because they are all ultimately funded via both direct and indirect theft [taxes], and counterfeiting [central bank monopolies], all governments are essentially, at their very cores, 100% corrupt  criminal scams which cannot be “reformed”or “improved”,simply because of their innate criminal nature.”   onebornfree

    “Government  is a disease masquerading as its own cure”  Robert LeFevere

    “Regards” onebornfree

  25. jsinton says:
    @JasonT

    Meanwhile, inside the Beltway

    Illinois Democratic Rep. Bobby Rush has introduced the H.R. 6666 TRACE Act, which includes a $100 billion grant program which would authorize the Secretary of Health and Human Services to create an army of contact tracers operating through healthcare, schools and nonprofit entities, who would perform COVID-19 diagnostic testing “through mobile health units and, as necessary, at individuals’ residences, and for other purposes.”

    No, not The Onion.

  26. anon[230] • Disclaimer says:
    @Brás Cubas

    Today vaccinations begin at birth and increase into high numbers. Does the natural immune system ever develop?

    The natural immune system is precisely what vaccines activate.

    A baby has little or no natural immunity at birth, especially premature birth. Mother’s milk is a much safer way for a baby to get antibodies.

    Very few people doubt that vaccinations can work. People doubt the efficacy and safety of current vaccines. Pro vaxers seed to answer the following questions:

    If vaccinations are safe, why has Big Pharma corrupted congress into give them legal liability immunity?. Note that much of Big Pharma has felony convictions.

    If vaccinations are protective to those being vaccinated, what gives you the right to demand others get vaccinated? How does other people not get vaccinated effect your health if you are vaccinated?

    Since they already have vaccine legal liability immunity, the Holy Grail for Big Pharma is mandatory vaccinations which is basically just a license for Big Pharma to print money.

    • Agree: jsinton
    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
  27. @anon

    I never said vaccines are safe, or unsafe. I never demanded anyone to get vaccinated. Your reply is a total non-sequitur.

  28. The obvious disinformation campaign against successful and inexpensive treatments of Covid-19

    It’s true that special interests are able to influence a lot of politics and policies. But on the other hand, they haven’t always won. It’s not impossible to win against powerful firms. The case that comes immediately to mind is one that was the subject of a film with Julia Roberts, Erin Brockovich, or the fight of Julia Butterfly Hill to save mamut trees. Pharmaceutic industry has a lot of power, but there are thousends of public university hospitals doing medical research and they aren’t dependent of pharmaceutic firms. They aren’t fools.

    As I just wrote in another thread, covid19 is a very serious disease. It ravages your body. People may become very sick very fast and become completely apathetic and quite unresponsive. The case that I saw today on tv was of a man who is 50 years old, who had no previous disease and now has been for 8 weeks in an intensive station. He cannot see anymore because covid affected his brain.

    Germany has had a relative success treating cases of covid. The reason for that is that doctors are ready to learn, to see what functions and what doesn’t function. They have several artificial breathing systems (sorry, I don’t know the exact terminology in English) that they have been using in order to avoid invasive breathing which is used only in about 2 % of the serious cases as a last measure. Contrary to other countries where most of the patients in this situation die, many or most in Germany recover. I saw an interview with a woman who had recovered after some weeks using invasive breathing (which she didn’t remember as she was put in artificial coma).

    No, I don’t believe that vitamine C helps in any stage of the disease. Vaccines have helped to control diseases which had very bad results. There are cases of people who refused to vaccinate their children who got sick later. They have regreted bitterly not having vaccinated their children. I’m sure that if there was a chance that hydroxychloroquine helps, it would be used in German hospitals.

    • Replies: @anon
  29. anon[230] • Disclaimer says:
    @UncommonGround

    There are cases of people who refused to vaccinate their children who got sick later. They have regretted bitterly not having vaccinated their children.

    There are many people, at least in the US, who have been damaged by vaccines and regret their choice.

    https://www.hrsa.gov/sites/default/files/hrsa/vaccine-compensation/data/data-statistics-report.pdf

    Questions:
    If vaccinations are safe, why has Big Pharma corrupted congress into give them legal liability immunity?. Note that much of Big Pharma has felony convictions.

    If vaccinations are protective to those being vaccinated, what gives anyone the right to demand others get vaccinated? How does other people not getting vaccinated effect your health if you are vaccinated?

    I’m sure that if there was a chance that hydroxychloroquine helps, it would be used in German hospitals.

    Why? Is medical malpractice less of a concern in Germany?

  30. IvyMike says:

    The study linked to is exactly the sort of pseudo science that props up almost all conspiracy theories. I don’t buy the Remdesivir studies either, I think that whole thing was about moving the stock. Damn, I’m a conspiracy nut, too…

  31. joe2.5 says:

    A study can get poor results from this treatment by using it as a late stage treatment when Covid-19 has advanced beyond treatment. This appears to be the case with the New England Journal of Medicine report that “hydroxychloroquine use was not associated with a significantly higher or lower risk of intubation or death”

    Not entirely true, Dr Roberts. See the Supplement, Fig. 3 for the distribution of time from ER arrival to start of treatment, summarized in the paper as: “Among the patients who received hydroxychloroquine, 45.8% received it in the 24 hours between their presentation to the emergency department and the start of study follow-up, and 85.9% received it within 48 hours after presentation to the emergency department.”

    Now, this should be compared to the time to treatment in the positive anecdotal reports (I am only familiar with some of them.) The definition in terms of start of symptoms is often vague in those I have seen, and ER admission may be introducing an additional delay — or again not. Should deserve further inquiry of course, but we can’t just dismiss this study.

  32. Hibernian says:
    @street worm

    There’s a general ban on posting Unz content on Facebook. You might try copy and paste; I’m not sure if that will work.

  33. Emslander says:
    @obwandiyag

    Regarding cigarettes, or tabacco more generally, its danger was known long before it became a cause for government attention in the fifties or sixties. What changed was that southern politicians were holding up liberalism and their great engine of economic power was the tobacco industry. Anything familiar about this.

    Tobacco is a great comfort to many people. It’s always a matter of use and abuse.

  34. joe2.5 says:

    If vaccinations are protective to those being vaccinated, what gives anyone the right to demand others get vaccinated? How does other people not getting vaccinated effect your health if you are vaccinated?

    I believe that’s what they call a rhetorical question. Anyone who can actually read and write could not have asked it: the ignorance, or better said not the ignorance but the total mental loss of function in not even being able to figure it out by yourself would be shocking it it wasn’t feigned.

    • Disagree: jsinton
    • Replies: @jsinton
    , @anon
  35. jsinton says:
    @joe2.5

    I think the question is valid. If I don’t want to get vaccinated, but others do, what then is the harm? People then have a choice. I choose not to. Others are afraid and feel the vaccine is effective. Good for them. Just don’t try and coerce me into it. For me, it’s a question of religion, i.e. vaccination is Mark of the Beast. Try and overcome that argument.

    • Replies: @Verity
  36. fredtard says:
    @Brás Cubas

    The activation by vaccines of the immune system, however, occurs in an unnatural way. The point of exposure to these various pathogens in “nature” is almost entirely our mucous membranes, not intramuscularly.

    About half of vaccines (the ones that are not whole/weakened cell) require an adjuvant (typically an aluminum hydroxide/phosphate compound) to elicit an antibody response. Aluminum is not known to be part of any biochemical pathways/processes; i.e., not a “natural” immune booster. These vaccines would not result in increased blood antibody titers (the only measure of vaccine efficacy) without the highly inflammatory, neurotoxic aluminum adjuvants. BTW, these inflammatory, toxic adjuvants are present in the “placebos” in 90+% of stage 3 vaccine clinical trials.

    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
  37. @fredtard

    I don’t see how this, if true, would in anyway prevent the natural immune system to “develop”, which the specific point I addressed.

  38. anon[230] • Disclaimer says:
    @joe2.5

    If vaccinations are protective to those being vaccinated, what gives anyone the right to demand others get vaccinated? How does other people not getting vaccinated effect your health if you are vaccinated?

    I believe that’s what they call a rhetorical question. Anyone who can actually read and write could not have asked it: the ignorance, or better said not the ignorance but the total mental loss of function in not even being able to figure it out by yourself would be shocking it it wasn’t feigned.

    I believe this is what they call deflection – when someone who can’t answer a question bloviates and engages in ad hominem attacks. So, do you actually have an answer to my question or not?

    • Agree: The OverSeer
    • Replies: @joe2.5
  39. joe2.5 says:
    @anon

    to: Anon[230] and JSinton

    Sure there is an answer, Mr Anon; it’s just that having it provided in so many words would be felt to be slightly insulting by a lot of people I know.

    Consider that there is a vaccine with x% efficacy (we’ll be optimistic and estimate x at greater than 50%). If the contagiousness of everyone around you, say your mother-in-law, your butcher, your mistress etc. is reduced by x% for each, your chances of catching the Beast are greatly reduced. They are very greatly reduced if you are vaccinated, of course. Your chances of catching it were (100 – x)% when no one around was vaccinated, and now it is a very minute fraction of that. I am not putting it into a math formula, because if you cannot realize at a glance the kind of multiplied protection this provides you’d really be too stupid to bother with.

    Now imagine you are one of the many people who cannot be vaccinated for some medical reason, let’s say you are immune suppressed and so not only unable to tolerate a given type of vaccine but also much more vulnerable to any disease avoided by vaccination. Or that you are a Know-Nothing knuckle-dragger with some ideologic stance who imagines that microbes can be negotiated with. Or some religious nut, which adds up to the same. Or you’re too poor to get vaccinated, as you live in a medicine-for-profit hell of a country. So you don’t get vaccinated (or you manage to escape the obligatory vaccination, if this were a civilized country.) The fact that everyone or almost around you has their contagiosity reduced by a major percentage will provide you a very decent coverage, close to absolute.

    That is (schematically) what’s known as the “herd effect” (as different from some politician’s trendy use for that term.) That’s how your kid, who was not vaccinated against measles because of your unconscionable objection, survived.

    If, on the other hand, you lived in some uncivilized hell like, say, the US where the very many ideological nutcases and religious fruitcakes and TV watchers and others, who know medicine better than anyone because they’ve seen it on TV, refuse vaccination and many get away with it, there wouldn’t be much of a herd effect now, would it? If a majority was unvaccinated, how many in your environment would provide you a strong reduction in risk? Problem is, the disease, if dangerous, would decimate not only the many-headed stupid but also the reasonable people who cannot get the vaccine. If (as it is usual) the vaccine efficacy is less than 100%, that insufficiency would become a major problem for all the vaccinated, too, and you’d see vaccinated people who catch the disease then,

    Now consider: we are in the country of not only antivaxxer or other religious nuts, it also happens to be the paradise of shark-lawyers. Are you cool with getting sued for negligent homicide by thousands, perhaps millions of people?

    • Replies: @anon
  40. Franz says:
    @Brás Cubas

    The natural immune system is precisely what vaccines activate.

    Partly right.

    Here’s the other part:

    The wife and I, deemed “essential,” go to work every day. Each day we meet people, handle stuff from all over the country and the world, walk outside, and so on. Our natural immune systems are taking in tons of microbes, pests, bacteria — all in very small amounts which our immune systems then learn about and how to fight off in large numbers if necessary.

    Putting it plain: Nature pumps out new spores and bacteria daily and your body learns as it moves.

    Plainer: The natural immune system is training itself every moment of every day you live; but the more you sequester yourself the less training it gets.

    All the people in lockdown are going to have underdeveloped immune systems. When they finally get out and about we’re going to see the “child in a bubble” effect where every single little germ will be hazardous — maybe deadly — to the lockdown-compromised immune systems of the people who were extreme about self-quarentine.

    Seriously. A virologist explained all this on a Youtube video and, like Dr Richard Cheng, it got taken down. The powers that be are going to hide the truth of this till we pry it out of their cold dead microcircuits.

    If you’re still sheltering in place, at least get out for a walk every day if it won’t get you busted. Your immune system will be activated and you’ll be lots safer.

    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
  41. anon[230] • Disclaimer says:
    @joe2.5

    That is (schematically) what’s known as the “herd effect” (as different from some politician’s trendy use for that term.) That’s how your kid, who was not vaccinated against measles because of your unconscionable objection, survived.

    Outbreaks have occurred in highly vaccinated populations disproving the “herd effect”. Do you have any other arguments? Preferably arguments backed up by data instead of hyperbole and thought experiments.

    • Replies: @joe2.5
  42. @Franz

    I don’t dispute any of that, and in fact made a comment to that effect on another article in this very website. The specific point I am addressing is that, to my knowledge, vaccines per se do not stop the immune system to develop: they in fact activate it for one specific virus. I agree, based on what I know, that they will not prevent the deleterious effects of sheltering in place on the overall immune system.

  43. joe2.5 says:
    @anon

    Let’s have the exact description and documentation of these famous disproving outbreaks. Whatever is available on such supposed incidents in textbooks is mainly about the introduction of new types of micro-organisms unrecognized by the existing vaccines… meaning they are not exceptions but a confirming of the rule. BTW, you’re calling thought experiment 200+ years of accumulated data.

    I know that Neither facts nor logic nor ridicule nor self-harm stays the true-believer from knowing better, so please come with medically acceptable stuff instead of your vague generalities. Please.

    • Replies: @anon
  44. GeeBee says:
    @Franz

    ‘This video has been removed for violating YouTube’s Terms of Service.’

    How? Why? What on earth, etc…

    • Replies: @The OverSeer
  45. anon[230] • Disclaimer says:
    @joe2.5

    Let’s have the exact description and documentation of these famous disproving outbreaks.

    Here’s one example.

    https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/67/wr/mm6742a4.htm

    BTW, you’re calling thought experiment 200+ years of accumulated data.

    No, I am calling your argument for the existence of herd immunity data free and a thought experiment. I am not denying that vaccines can be effective.

  46. @obwandiyag

    Of course you would never assent to Black comorbidities in Covid19 deaths having anything whatsoever to do with their voluntary and enthusiastic patronage of the tobacco industry or the junk food industry. (among others)

  47. Republic says:
    @street worm

    Why use Facebook at all? It is an enemy.

  48. Verity says:
    @jsinton

    Wow! You want us to fight fiction with fact? You’re right. That’s a no win scenario. May the FICTION be with you and keep you safe.

  49. @GeeBee

    It’s the typical canned bullshit that liberal YouTube/google says when you go outside their narrative. It would be nice to have an uncensored version of YouTube but that ain’t happening.

  50. anonymous[159] • Disclaimer says:

    How do we know that that the vaccine is not simple saline solution? We don’t! Saline will not harm the body- it is used as a placeb0 in trials. The flu season, as will the covit19 season, is coming to an end and that is why deaths are dramatically decreased and why the current state of siege is ending. Is this timing a coincidence? Absolutely not. The vaccine will then be credited for the remissions (falsely). Sunlight, or UVL kills viruses and that is why the flu season ends, (sunshine and warm to hot weather), as will the covit19. The coronavirus has been identified as a mild cold virus, inconvenient, uncomfortabe, but, not fatal For decades scientists have attempted to cure the common cold with a vaccine, but, have been unsuccessful; too many variables, (Yes, OUR pharmaceuticals, not Chinas’) This is very well documented. This epidemic is one large scam. The people should initiate a worldwide class action suit. The Justice Department should investigate- this is a conspiracy. BorisMGarsky.

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