The Unz Review: An Alternative Media Selection
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 BlogviewPaul Craig Roberts Archive
Marc Wathelet, a Virologist and Specialist in Coronaviruses and Respiratory Diseases Explains Why Asia Was Successful in Containing Covid-19 and Why the West Is Not
🔊 Listen RSS
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeThanksLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Thanks, LOL, or Troll with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used three times during any eight hour period.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

My dear fellow citizens,

I am the virologist, specialist in coronaviruses and respiratory diseases, whose views differ significantly from the experts who advise the government on the management of the COVID-19 pandemic.

The situation is dire and I would like to offer you a clear plan for getting out of the health, economic and social crisis that Belgium and the rest of the world are facing.

Everything I am proposing is based on the basic principles of public health that have been known since ancient times; and the history of the five pandemics of the previous five centuries has only one refrain, the cities and the countries that emerge from pandemics relatively unscathed are those that respect these rules, the others pay their tribute. It was true yesterday, it is true today, it is enough to see how Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Singapore handled the crisis from the start, and how China and South Korea recovered. Contrary to what the Prime Minister says, there are countries that are doing very well in their handling of this crisis.

The urgency of the situation.

The very first principle of public health in a response to a pandemic can be summed up in one word, EMERGENCY! Always answer right away with absolutely all means available, as this is the best and only reasonable way to flatten the curve. Every hour counts, every hour lost means more people infected, more people hospitalized, more deaths, it’s just basic math.

If you hurt your fingertip and the wound becomes infected, you have to act quickly. Otherwise, your entire finger, then your hand and finally your arm will be affected. It’s the same with the population in the event of a pandemic, it’s an exact analogy. The infectious agent spreads from cell to cell in our body before infecting it in its entirety if we do not stop it, and in the same way the coronavirus spreads from individual to individual in our social body, and we must do everything to stop it, immediately, without any delay.

My point of view differs from that of other experts, and for me, the fault lies first of all with the WHO. They made two errors with absolutely catastrophic consequences in their management of this crisis. The first was to believe that this new coronavirus was transmitted in the same way as the two recently emerged coronaviruses, SARS and MERS. It is the classic mistake of generals to prepare for the coming war by thinking that it will be a repetition of the previous one. They dig fortified trenches, put heavy artillery in bunkers, and then a blitzkrieg overruns them.

SARS and MERS were not very contagious for respiratory viruses, and from an epidemiological point of view we knew for example that the contagion only happened when the patient was already sick for 4-5 days, which explains that for these two epidemics the virus was spread mostly to relatives and attending medical staff.

Our public health measures are not suitable for COVID-19.

By contrast, COVID-19 is transmitted before the onset of symptoms, which implies that public health measures which could control a virus like SARS and MERS (but only if they were rigorously applied, with quarantine of people returning from risk area, and mass screening), could never be sufficient to contain such a contagious virus.

This contagiousness, comparable to that of rubella or mumps before vaccination, implies that this virus can only spread like wildfire in an immunologically naive population. And a virus capable of being transmitted by aerosol can only explain this contagiousness; it is a property of practically all respiratory viruses, SARS and MERS being notable exceptions to the rule.

The WHO has in fact admitted in a press release that aerosol transmission is possible and requires more study, when we don’t have time for more study. I worked in an institute dedicated to respiratory diseases and there the work on aerosols, chemical or infectious, is done every day, it is perhaps 10% of their activities; I have absolutely no doubt that this virus is transmitted by aerosol, if I can leave my reserve as a scientist who must doubt everything. In an emergency situation, we follow the preponderance of evidence.

The WHO’s first fault was that it did not recognize that aerosol transmission was substantial and therefore that the recommendations had to be changed to contain the spread of the virus, which they still have not done. The WHO’s second fault is to underestimate the contagiousness of the virus, with a basic reproduction number of ~ 2.5 when in reality it is ~ 7, with a doubling time of 2.4 days in the absence of any public health measure.

Italy has been in total lockdown since March 10 and we can clearly see that since the cessation of all non-essential economic activity, the progression of the coronavirus has slowed down (doubling time ~ 5.5 days on March 24 compared to ~ 3.3 days before the lockdown), but it still remains exponential‼ [update: doubling time 9.7 days for this last week on March 29, a lockdown makes a big difference, it works].

There is therefore progress, but it is insufficient, and that is why the Italian government is considering even stricter measures. We are only 4-5 days behind Italy when we consider the difference in population size, so in proportion to the infected population we will be in the same percentage of cases as Italy in 4-5 days.

We will not stop the exponential progression with the current measures.

In Belgium, we have had a doubling time of ~ 3.3 days for the past 15 days, the same figure as Italy before its lockdown. On March 24, Italy is at 5.5 days of doubling time, but it is still not enough. So we are not doing enough in Belgium, we will not stop the exponential progression with the current measures.

ORDER IT NOW

The recipe for successful countries is: sanitary cordon, screening of travelers, massive use of adequate masks by the population, quarantine when necessary, surveillance of respiratory diseases, massive screening, tracing of possible contacts, and early hospitalization when necessary. But you have to be organized before the pandemic to be able to apply this recipe.

As we find ourselves in an insufficiently prepared pandemic, what to do?

The first thing to realize is that those who continue to work in a non-essential occupation must stop immediately for two reasons. First of all, in practice the 1.5 meters are not respected, you just have to see the preparation for the swearing in of the government to realize it. Then and above all, a virus that is transmitted by aerosol respects no distance.

So the first measure to take is the immediate cessation of all non-essential economic activity, with only teleworking allowed. Certainly we can do without going to the hairdresser in a crisis. It is imperative to close the daycare, Belgian style, leaving a daycare for essential staff, but otherwise it is necessary to close the daycare. Babies can be very contagious, for example a 6 month old baby in South Korea, under observation in a hospital because her parents were infected, produced an amount of virus considered contagious for 20 days. Her only symptom? 38 °C for less than an hour over the total duration of the observations.

To understand what is going to happen, we must now consider two distinct populations in Belgium, those who remain active because they have an essential function, and those who are confined to lockdown, because the prognosis is very different for these two populations.

The population in lockdown.

In any viral epidemic, there are three fractions: a) the uninfected population, b) an infected but asymptomatic fraction (and here potentially contagious and the number of which is unknown), and c) an infected fraction with various symptoms and varying degrees of severity. When we put the population in lockdown (we start with 4 weeks then we reevaluate), we limit our contacts to only the household and the people met in food stores.

So infected people will only contaminate at most those who live under the same roof, plus a very small fraction outside their house. The number of people infected in this population can therefore only be multiplied at most by, say, four; the average number of people living under the same roof should be taken as a multiplier. During the lockdown, those who were infected and asymptomatic can either get rid of the virus naturally or become symptomatic, be identified and then treated appropriately for the severity of their symptoms.

Contrast this to a scenario of no containment during these 4 weeks, where the number of people infected would be multiplied by 256, at the current rate of 3.3 days as doubling time. The measures in place today in Belgium will lengthen this doubling time, but not enough, the curve will remain exponential.

So for the population whose activity is not essential, it is the most basic common sense that the lockdown be imposed today, and the sooner it is implemented, the sooner we can get out and return to an almost normal economic activity. And the sooner it is implemented, the fewer people will be infected, hospitalized and dead in the final assessment.

The population with essential function.

It is of course the population that is most at risk during the lockdown period. I had a flashback to this scene in Stanley Kubrick’s film, Barry Lyndon, where we see the troops advancing in close rank, and lines after lines fall under the musket fire, the madness of war, mid-19th century version.

I went on Facebook to get feedback, and I get messages from everywhere, especially those on the front lines. I’m also on the COVID-19 group for medical doctors. In public medical personnel present a brave face, like the government, they cannot show their feelings, but in private there are all the feelings, the fear, the rage, the incomprehension that in the 21st century, a society that believes itself advanced, finds itself so unprepared to face a relatively small number of cases.

Let’s remember the difference between isolation (or surgical) masks and the famous N95/FFP2 masks. The first wave in Wuhan the medical staff was short of FFP2, all the photos show them with surgical masks; result: 3,000 infected medical staff. The Chinese government sends reinforcements, 42,000 medical personnel equipped with FFP2; result: zero infection out of 42,000!

Our doctors and nurses proudly go into battle without the necessary protection, namely a N95/FFP2, knowing that they will become infected one after the other, falling like the soldiers of the empire, like already Dr. Philippe Devos with whom I was on a TV set at the beginning of the month. But we cannot say that publically in our society, in France a scientist has been rebuked for daring to say that Macron sends the medical staff to the “case-pipe”, another metaphor for heavy casualties. It’s apparently too raw to describe reality simply; you have to wrap it in lots of euphemisms.

It is simply UNACCEPTABLE as a situation and absolutely everything must be done to rectify it as soon as possible. It is infuriating to learn that we placed only ONE order in Turkey for such a vital material as FFP2 masks, when we should have placed a 100 orders! And then there was fraud and we received nothing! We can sue them but it will not save any life here.

China is once again offering this equipment for sale and by chartering a plane you can have the equipment in two days. There was an article in La Libre (a Belgian newspaper) by a journalist in Hong Kong who was offended that members of the French government continued with the disinformation that these masks would not help the population, and she made the essential point that these masks were available in China, what are we waiting for?

FFP2 must be recycled for the moment.

ORDER IT NOW

Furthermore, I tried to communicate the importance of recycling FFP2 masks, without any success. It is a matter of life and death. These masks are considered for single use and staffs throw them away too quickly. This is not the place to be technical, but I have proposed four methods to recycle them and they must be implemented according to the sterilization equipment available in hospitals, information that I have still not been able to obtain. We must educate medical staff on how to extend the life of these masks and recycle them, today, the urgency is immense.

The army, firefighters and probably the police have gas masks, which should not be left in the barracks, they are even more effective than the FFP2. We do not care if it looks crazy to see doctors with gas masks, I prefer to see them stay alive and able to care for patients, and also it would prevent them from becoming vectors of spread themselves. How many gas masks, which are cleanable and reusable, are available?

Finally, for the front line staff who cannot be protected by an FFP2 or a gas mask, what about using hydroxychloroquine? I floated the idea on Facebook COVID-19 medical doctor, the prophylactic use of hydroxychloroquine to see their responses, which of course ranged from total rejection to approval as an idea worth pursuing.

The major objection is that the studies are preliminary, but we don’t have time for a study with more double-blind patients, our healthcare staff will be needlessly infected by then. The prophylactic use of this drug for malaria is well demonstrated, there is a population for whom it would be contraindicated but it is well known and we are talking about medical personnel, not self-medication.

It is necessary to leave the choice to each individual to protect themselves in this way or not, according to the availability of the proper masks. Do not believe that the doctors do not know their rights, which is in particular not to work in conditions that put them in excessive danger. [Health minister] Maggie De Block’s statement on Monday, no FFP2 on the front line, shocked and woke up more than one caregiver.

The second difficulty is logistics and all wars are won or lost in logistics. It is not clear if we have enough of this drug, hydroxychloroquine, because of course the priority goes to COVID-19 patients, and patients afflicted with chronic diseases such as rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, etc., who also need this drug.

I hear that Belgium, like France, has taken over the national stock, and that France has several factories capable of producing hydroxychloroquine. We have to know what is in stock and their productive capacity, and how much France would be able to supply, with what delay, in order to calculate the judicious use of our stocks.

And, if we know that reinforcements will arrive in time, let us use part of our stocks as prophylactics for those on the front line who want them because they do not have an adequate mask, including those who do not see symptomatic COVID patients, because of contagion by asymptomatic individuals. Those who cannot be protected by FFP2 or hydroxychloroquine must remain in reserve, it is imperative!

FFP2 masks for the population, a simple solution for returning to work.

To finish with the masks, let us understand that what will get us out of confinement, lockdown, and will allow the population to resume almost normal work, is the massive production of FFP2 masks for the entire population, small (children) and adults (adults). The faster the necessary production tools are put in place, the faster Belgium can get back to work, it’s really that simple.

During the minimum 4 weeks of lockdown, massive screening is needed, and the establishment of the task force is a step in the right direction. We cannot lift the lockdown until our ability to track down infected individuals has been greatly increased.

At Vo’Euganeo in Italy, all the confined residents (3,300) were tested a month ago. Result: out of 89 positive cases, there are only handful contaminations, reports La Voix du Nord. The approach I propose works when you can combine lockdown and massive screening.

Screening, screening, screening.

This screening should especially not be limited to the nucleic acid of the coronavirus. A team from Namur (and many others around the world) produced a serological test that was validated and then promptly prohibited, on the pretext that it will not detect recently infected patients before they produce antibodies. An absurd position, because all doctors are already well aware of this limitation.

This test is useful, let us think of all those who were quarantined because of flu symptoms, but who could not be tested due to lack of sampling equipment, or not given enough priority for testing during the test shortages. They would like to know what infected them. A screening for the presence of nucleic acid, the screening test currently used, no longer makes sense if people got rid of the virus at the time of being tested. In addition to valuable information on the spread of the virus in our country, positive cases identified by this technique would motivate a disinfection of their home.

Other logistical aspects that require urgent attention are the situation of the truckers who are on their knees and no longer have access to the facilities that normally allow them to function humanely, and the farmers who replant. We must ensure that we replant what Belgium will need because there is the risk that countries keep their agricultural production for domestic purposes in this pandemic situation.

It is of course necessary to increase the number of respirators available.

Universal income for the duration of the government-mandated lockdown.

We must also support the population with a form of universal income for the duration of the lockdown mandated by the government, it is not only necessary financially for many who have their rent and food and other bills to pay, but it will certainly decrease the general anxiety of the population, which will allow it to resist the virus more effectively. It will also facilitate acceptance of containment and compliance with the rules.

Finally, with Belgium rebuilding itself post-corona and preparing for the probable return of the virus in October, once again masks for everyone is the simple and effective solution (and we can manufacture them in fabrics, which must to be validated of course, and make them recyclable).

We must consider that our medical staff and other first lines will probably be in a state of revolt, comparable to that of the yellow vests, because of the horrendous conditions in which they were forced to operate.

ORDER IT NOW

Our society must change, why return to society as it was organized before when it failed in its most basic duty? And of course politics has an essential role to play. Let’s not have preconceived ideas, Paul Craig Roberts proposes a rational approach which has proven itself for companies in difficulty, which we would be very inspired to consider: https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2020/03/23 / china-uses-the-michael-hudson-paul-craig-roberts-solution-for-the-economic-crisis /

https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2020/03/23/debt-forgivness-and-nationalization-are-the-answers-to-the-economic-crisis/

So in summary, and without further ado:

  1. Italian-style lockdown, all non essential economic activities are suspended;
  2. Belgian day-care centers closed;
  3. FFP2 masks or gas masks or hydroxychloroquine, for all those on the front line; recycling of masks; those who have no real protection remain in reserve; more respirators are needed;
  4. Massive nucleic acid and serological screening of all suspected cases;
  5. Industrial production of FFP2 masks to put the population back to work when the health lockdown is lifted;
  6. Universal income during the government-mandated lockdown period.

Marc Wathelet.

(Republished from PaulCraigRoberts.org by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: Ideology, Science • Tags: Belgium, Coronavirus, Disease, EU 
Hide 269 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
    []
  1. Anonymous[197] • Disclaimer says:

    Good article. It’s kind of crazy that so many people want to ignore what worked in other countries. Even those who are too propagandised to trust China can clearly see that lockdowns are working in many other nations.

    I’m in one of the European countries where the number of newly infected has started to decline. This was a perfectly expected outcome since we’ve worked together to deny the virus most of its vectors of transmission. It’s a very disruptive process but it works and it works faster when people are united. The speed of getting rid of COVID-19 is crucial in terms of saving lives and businesses.

  2. orionyx says:

    Excellent article, yet leaves out the most essential element of a proper response: the strengthening of individual immune systems.

    We don’t want people not to catch the virus, we want everyone (or 60% at least of the population) to catch it and develop natural immunity.

    It seems that most people who catch it are inconvenienced for a while, but not killed, and not sick enough to need respirators. We can reduce the inconvenience and lower the morbidity and mortality rates by seeing that everyone gets supplements of vitamins C, B1 and D3, zinc and selenium. Then they can all go back to work, perhaps wearing masks to reduce virus load.

    And then after the epidemic,everyone will be healthier and perhaps a little saner than they were before it.

  3. Uradel666 says:

    It may seem obvious but don’t be fooled!

    Because “Coronademic” is the Economic Project and the “2019-nCov” is genetically (naturally) unable to take many lives, you have to keep the focus on and watch the news. If you will have heard the piece of News like “We have not yet reached the peak of the epidemic ” or “a new epidemic center has been found now here, now there (e.g. “Alameda care center”)” it means the only thing, namely, the DeepState plants this Virus (“2019-nCov”) on local community whenever you hear it. They “salt a mine”.

    Remember,
    1. There are three types of Coronavirus based on its Genetic traits: 1) HcoV-226E, 2) HcoV-Oc43, HeCoV, 3) SARS-CoV and MERS-CoV (+ 2019-nCov or SARS-CoV-2). They all are Cold_Like Viruses. The most dangerous type of Coronavirus is the “SARS-CoV” that killed 774 people Worldwide (2002-2004). “2019-nCov” (aka “COVID-19”) is NOT dangerous type of Coronavirus as compared to the “SARS-CoV” and “MERS-CoV” themselves.

    2. The “2019-nCov” cannot survive being exposed to the external environment. It is a matter of minutes when the “2019-nCov” dies on open surfaces (spaces).

    3. The first cases of “2019-nCov” (aka “COVID-19”) have been filed in the US in 2019 long before the outbreak.
    PS They plant the Virus (“2019-nCov”) on local community throughout the Country (beginning with California and New York in 2109). They lie about the number of Coronavirus cases and more likely pathogenicity and virulence of the “2019-nCov”. They exaggerate a problem and make a Light Show out of it. They develop the “volunteer base” to spread infection to Community. They hire “Talking Heads and Birds” on TV.
    You are Welcome!

    • Replies: @Anon
  4. We must also support the population with a form of universal income for the duration of the lockdown mandated by the government, it is not only necessary financially for many who have their rent and food and other bills to pay, but it will certainly decrease the general anxiety of the population, which will allow it to resist the virus more effectively. It will also facilitate acceptance of containment and compliance with the rules.

    Look, the shut down is gonna be expensive and someone is just going to have to pay for it. Probably ought to be capital holders who have spent 40 years benefiting from the spoils of a just-in-time economy and probably not people living paycheck-to-paycheck who don’t understand where the money went and why things are the way they are.

    And not that it will probably make a difference, but one wonders why the Fed can purchase mortgage backed securities from banks to the tune of a trillion dollars a day, but we just can’t find some derivative to bundle up rent, mortgage and credit card debt in such a way that the Fed can take it off a workingperson’s hands. So clever those quants, so conspicuous the limits of their genius.

  5. During the seasonal influenza of 2017-2018 in the USA, 45 million caught the illness and 61,000 died.

    The WORLDWIDE death toll from chinese virus is a little under 38k.

    #coronahoax

    • Replies: @Spanky
  6. Anon[424] • Disclaimer says:

    Our Western leaders know we won’t have a vaccine soon enough. Maybe a year from now. The only way to deal with Covid-19 is to develop herd immunity. The weak and sick will die, but we can only extend our protection of the weak and sick for a few months more, try to give them a few months more of life, and that’s it. Then virus will overrun us like a tsunami. Stopping Covid-19 infections without a vaccine is like holding back a dyke with a thousand holes in it with only ten fingers. It is absolutely impossible to do more until we have a vaccine. Infection will hop from person to person via a billion different routes, and that billion is not an exaggeration.

    During the Spanish Flu pandemic in 1918, they knew they had to quarantine, they knew had to cut off travel between countries, and they still couldn’t do it.

    We’re in a worse position than they were.

    We’re an overpopulated planet with 7 billion potential hosts for a virus, and we humans travel around from country to country too much. You can’t stop a viral infection with billions of constantly circulating hosts. It’s not doable.

    China is going to have another Wuhan-like episode blow up in its face again, and then another one, and another one. The Chinese trying to quarantine the virus into oblivion is like trying to spot the pea in a shell game being played by a very fast and clever carnival barker.

    We’ll have the same thing. Constant outbreaks all over the place until we develop herd immunity the hard way, while we watch our weak and sick being killed off without us having the means to save them. We need a vaccine.

    The leaders of the West understand this reality. They aren’t saying it, but all they’re doing is trying to mitigate the pain. They know it’s inevitable. All of us are likely to know someone, or know of someone, who is going to die in the next year.

    Man up, people. There’s nothing else to do in the face of the impossible.

  7. cranc says:

    Another terribly one sided take on the crisis.
    No mention of the disputes and controversies around the data such as this:
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-to-understand-and-report-figures-for-covid-19-deaths-

    It should be noted that there is no international standard method for attributing or recording causes of death. Also, normally, most respiratory deaths never have a specific infective cause recorded, whereas at the moment one can expect all positive Covid-19 results associated with a death to be recorded. Again, this is not splitting hairs. Imagine a population where more and more of us have already had Covid-19, and where every ill and dying patient is tested for the virus. The deaths apparently due to Covid-19, the Covid trajectory, will approach the overall death rate. It would appear that all deaths were caused by Covid-19 – would this be true? No. The severity of the epidemic would be indicated by how many extra deaths (above normal) there were overall.

    How many extra deaths overall so far? Anybody?
    PCR’s article includese no serious consideration of the effects (health effects, democratic effects, psychological effects) of locking down a society.
    No consideration of the extent of actual infection/ contact with the virus to date versus ‘recorded’.
    If the virus takes a toll comparable to flu then what is the correct ‘precautionary approach’ ? Should we shut down global society for flu as well ?
    The history of Lovelace where Wathelet works might be informative.
    Another black mark against Unz review for me I am afraid.

  8. Patric says:

    Just like Ron Unz’s essay I could only read 1/2 of this, the bs imo was so thick. Actually correction I only got about a 1/4 into it. I used to really like this site but it seems it has gone all in on the virus is the culprit. Better read Jon Rappoport or better yet check out the “Fullerton Informer” (Joe Imbriano) on youtube

    • Agree: Paul C.
    • Replies: @onebornfree
  9. Chinaman says:

    It was true yesterday, it is true today, it is enough to see how Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Singapore handled the crisis from the start, and how China and South Korea recovered.

    CountLess life could have been saved if white people just didn’t have an illogical aversion to masks.

    Everyone wear masks in asia. Ironically, It is not the Chinese who is spreading it In Asia. The people who are spreading the disease where I live are the white people returning from overseas and refuse to wear masks. They should go back to wherever they come from.

    these people should be physically assaulted for NOT wearing a mask in Asia like Asians are assaulted in the West for wearing one.

  10. SafeNow says:

    The essayist places the word “emergency” in capital letters NOW. He articulates some of the correct responses NOW. But why were the most renowned epidemiologists of the West not screaming-out in proverbial capital letters 3 months ago? They should have penned a joint letter, and done the obvious things with it, screaming from the rooftops. They knew then the massive set of responses that were epidemiologically prudent. They sat back quietly while Mr. Trump proposed $1 billion and the Democrats upped the ante to $8 billion. Okay, I expect ineptness and cowardice from the government agencies. But where were Harvard snd Hopkins and the rest of them? They were cowards. And this goes on, and it will continue. If it’s possible to add a new circle in hell to Dante’s Inferno, let it be for the elite private-sector epidemiologists.

  11. jim jones says:

    China is once again offering this equipment for sale and by chartering a plane you can have the equipment in two days.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/coroanvirus-holland-recalls-over-half-a-million-masks-imported-from-china-2020-3?r=US&IR=T

    • Replies: @ThreeCranes
    , @Bork
  12. …the fault lies first of all with the WHO. They made two errors with absolutely catastrophic consequences in their management of this crisis.

    No, the fault clearly lies “first of all” with the responsible Chinese government specialists and authorities, who already had sufficient documented cases to strongly suspect a serious outbreak was already in progress by the end of last year.

    In early January the virus had been sequenced and determined to be novel. On January 9 the WHO, which was relying on information provided within China, released a statement containing the following quote:

    Over the past week, people with symptoms of pneumonia and reported travel history to Wuhan have been identified at international airports.

    https://www.who.int/china/news/detail/09-01-2020-who-statement-regarding-cluster-of-pneumonia-cases-in-wuhan-china

    Based on these revelations, Chinese authorities had an immediate duty to ban all outgoing flights from the Wuhan airport in order to curtail the spreading of the virus to other regions. Instead, these measures to close down the airport were not implemented until two weeks thereafter, on January 23. Of course, as the article above highlights, a two-week period of inaction during the early stages of an outbreak makes a monumental difference.

    During this two-week period they essentially encouraged the spreading of the virus all over the world, initially to those international destination cities with non-stop flights from Wuhan. They are primarily responsible for having allowed the progression of this epidemic to inevitably become a worldwide outbreak. Thus they effectively chose to initiate a bio-warfare attack onto the rest of the world.

    In light of these indisputable facts, it is rather ironic that many commentators at other threads on the virus topic on this web site having been advancing a collection of contorted rationales to exonerate China from any blame whatsoever and presume instead that the fault lies with American athletes at the military games in October of last year., which still ignores the fact that the virus did spread rapidly in Wuhan – and nowhere else – and should have been contained there.

  13. @SimplePseudonymicHandle

    (Facepalm) Most mortgage and credit card debt is already securitized. It’s mostly owned by institutional investors. As someone else put it, it’s bail out the pension funds now, or run over the pensioners with tanks later.

  14. onebornfree says: • Website

    Article summary:

    Socialist P.C. [politically correct?] Roberts stamps his approval moniker on the “thoughts” of another writer, with more anti-freedom, anti bill of rights, socialist, going on full on commie “solutions ” that call for total lockdown of society via government.

    He [P.C.R.] should be ashamed, instead he remains in complete denial of his own obvious anti-freedom, socialist/communist proclivities, while out of the other side of his mouth he supports/proposes idiotic socialist “solutions” such as lockdowns, U.B.I. and other drivel proposed by this writer.

    In the end, its just another anti-freedom [and therefor anti bill of rights], pro China, pro commie, piece of propaganda from the Unz stable of pro big government, pro nanny state drooling idiots who forever remain in complete denial of the simple fact that government solutions have never worked. Never have, never will.

    See : “Why Government Doesn’t Work”[free pdf file] : http://www.jrbooksonline.com/PDF_Books/why_govt_doesnt_work.pdf

    This just in: the only thing that needs to locked down RIGHT NOW [to the chains of the constitution] is the federal government.

    No regards, onebornfree

    • Replies: @onebornfree
    , @Hempus
  15. Well, I look at the official stats from MOMO (Euro Monitoring of Mortality Organization) and they tell me that excess deaths for this time of year have gone down (lol).

    Yes, you heard that right…..they have gone DOWN. This is the disclaimer that has been placed on the website:

    Over the past few days, the EuroMOMO hub has received many questions about the weekly all-cause mortality data and the possible contribution of any COVID-19 related mortality. Some wonder why no increased mortality is observed in the reported mortality figures for the COVID-19 affected countries.

    The answer is that increased mortality that may occur primarily at subnational level or within smaller focal areas, and/or concentrated within smaller age groups, may not be detectable at the national level, even more so not in the pooled analysis at European level, given the large total population denominator. Furthermore, there is always a few weeks of delay in death registration and reporting. Hence, the EuroMOMO mortality figures for the most recent weeks must be interpreted with some caution. https://www.euromomo.eu/

    Now there are a few things:

    1. The test for Cornavirus is not accurate (only 50% chance of getting it right) that is why so many FALSE POSITIVES. It picks up on other antibodies and people often walk around with a virus without it becoming a cold

    2. If it identifies other types of viruses etc as Covid19 then your case numbers are going to be exaggerated and your CFR wrong.

    3. Many of the deaths (in Italy for example) had co-morbidity or were in palliative care. Did they die FROM Covid19 or WITH Covid19? If you have kidney disease and diabetes and you are 90 years old and die and get tested and they find that you have (according to their test) Covid19…..did it kill you? Who knows? Only God.

    I keep an open mind but find it very, very suspicious especially as it is a Bio-engineered virus and it is used to cover the debt saturated implosion of Neo-classical liberalism and issue in a police state.

    • Thanks: Alfred
  16. Johnwho says:

    Thank you sir! A very good article indeed and one I will read at least twice.
    Since China is back in business and masks are available there and in S Korea, the suggestion of chartering a few planes and getting masks in a few days is a really good idea.
    Travel between cities should also be curtailed as much as possible. Towns and cities should have the right to put up signs to keep visitors out.

  17. Johnwho says:
    @orionyx

    The problem with ‘herd immunity’ is the enormous cost of lives in people who are not in good/great health. That and the problem of re-infection which we don’t yet have the answer to in the case of this virus.

    • Replies: @Levtraro
  18. refl says:

    So the first measure to take is the immediate cessation of all non-essential economic activity, with only teleworking allowed

    Sorry, but I had to stop reading half way through this drivel.
    The author thinks that teleworking has anything to do with essential economic activity? He is obviously used to take digits on a computer screen for real life. It should have got through to him that the tests, infection rates and doubling times are garbage from the start, so a little bit of clear thinking should help more then his computer models.

    Any data that gets out, by necessity has been massaged to fit the narrative – which is that over a reasonable time span the authorities have to come to the point that they can declare victory and need not feared to be called out for high t reason for senselessly crashing the economy.

    With scientists like this one it is better to believe in witchcraft. He better go back to his TV studio to scare the population into buying his masks and follow the orders from the Brussels Nato bunker.

    Disgusting.

    • Replies: @botazefa
  19. Anon[230] • Disclaimer says:

    The statistics are so skewed that no-one will ever no what works or even what the threat is. They are counting every person who dies with Covid-19 as a Covid-19 death. This is just like counting every male who dies of a stroke a prostrate cancer death because he tested positive for prostrate cancer. As Mark Twain stated: there are lies, damned lies, and statistics. All of which are manipulated to serve power structures.

  20. onebornfree says: • Website
    @Patric

    “Better read Jon Rappoport ”

    Yes. For example: Article: “Turn the economy back on; even Fauci is confessing “:

    “Dr. Anthony Fauci, the US front man for managing the “pandemic,” has just written an article that ought to be titled: I WAS WRONG AND THIS IS MY CONFESSION.

    Fauci, New England Journal of Medicine, March 26, “Covid-19 — Navigating the Uncharted”:

    “If one assumes that the number of asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic cases is several times as high as the number of reported cases, the case fatality rate may be considerably less than 1%. This suggests that the overall clinical consequences of Covid-19 may ultimately be more akin to those of a severe seasonal influenza (which has a case fatality rate of approximately 0.1%) or a pandemic influenza (similar to those in 1957 and 1968)…”

    In case there is any doubt, those “pandemic influenza seasons” of 1957 and 1968 did NOT result in any lockdowns. People went outdoors. They mingled. They sat in stadiums. They went to their jobs.

    SO TURN THE ECONOMY BACK ON NOW. End the insanity……..”:
    https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2020/03/29/turn-the-economy-back-on-even-fauci-is-confessing/

    Regards, onebornfree

    • Replies: @Oldtradesman
  21. Chinaman says:
    @Been_there_done_that

    Out of the 10 million or so Chinese officials that manage the affairs of one quarter of humanity, Which specific Chinese government specialists and authorities do you think Should be held accountable for this outbreak?

    should we hold Xi accountable as we should hold Trump accountable for saying it was a hoax so wasting that golden opportunity to prepare for the outbreak ?

    Do you know the whole Wuhan leadership have been sacked ?

    Should we make all chinaman pay and or should we exclude the Uyghurs Muslims, which the hypocritical Christians in the West love so much, from taking ang responsibility?

    Or may be exclude Chinese that are devout Christians ?

    but What about those freedom loving Christians Chinese that happen to have a penchant for bats?

    How should we punish the Chinese ? we are not punishing little boys here, should we start Ww3 ? May be just expropriated property of all Chinese ? Oh…we should steal property from Asian Americans since they look the same. But wait, that might jeapodize American investment in China too.

    May be this is all too complicated and anyone who is not white should be held accountable? blacks are an easy target.

    The 2009 H1N1 pandemic killed 200, 000 people worldwide my friend’s mother died from it. It originated in the US. US government did NOTHING. No alerts, no quarantine….

    It originated On a pig farm in California. California is in America. Pig farm exist since American eat pork,…. so the root cause because Americans eat bacon.

    I am going to hold you and your government responsible for the death of my friend’s mother…simply because you are American. No, because you are white.

  22. onebornfree says: • Website
    @onebornfree

    “This just in: the only thing that needs to locked down RIGHT NOW [to the chains of the constitution] is the federal government.”

    This would prevent idiot slaves like Wathelet and Roberts and all of the other anti freedom socialists/commies in government and elsewhere, who perpetually fantasize about running everyone elses lives for them with their totalitarian lockdown “solutions” [etc . etc. etc. blah blah blah] from being able to force , at the barrel of a gun , their idiotic totalitarian fantasies “for the good of society” on everyone else.Or at the very least, greatly restrict their efforts to so do.

    LOCK DOWN THE TOTALITARIAN FEDERAL ,STATE, AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS,[to the chains of the constitution and bill of rights] NOW!

    “Regards” onebornfree

  23. Levtraro says:
    @Chinaman

    If you assault them whites not wearing masks where you live you may get infected as the assaulted will spread aerosols while yelling in fear.

    • Replies: @Chinaman
  24. anastasia says:

    Take away the people with no symptoms, with mild symptoms, and with major multiple underlying illnesses, who do you have? No one.

    In Italy, the government scrutinized the first hundred cases of deaths, and concluded that they could say only two of the hundred died of corona virus, despite the fact that the people tested positive.

    In China, they have decided not to count those people who tested positive and had no symptoms.

    What these countries are now starting to do is how they will succeed in “conquering the virus”.

    Right now, we need our numbers up for another week or two. but eventually, they will do the same thing to show the world how their “war against the virus” has been won. America is exceptional. Fiddling with the victims, fiddling with the bogus test. Right now, they are still testing everyone in the hospital and many of those who are asymptomatic and want the test, t but that will eventually end, if it is apparent that they do not have any symptoms even remotely resembling what are symptoms of the flu.

    It was reported on the internet by a doctor and nurse that no matter how unrelated the illness of the person who died, if they tested positive, they will be marked down as a corona victim. The CDC told them to “err on the side of caution” and mark them down as “corona” . Their true condition, no matter how unrelated and devastating, is being ignored. I substantiated this myself by a nurse working in a hospital in Virginia. The doctors are obliged to do the same thing, even though they
    all know just how wrong it is, how unscientific, how it deviates from the standard of medical care. Some of the family members are starting to object to turning their loved ones into corona victims, when even to the family, they know that is not the reason their loved one died, but we will not be hearing from these family members in the media anytime soon.

    Of all diagnostic tests, the PCR test is reputed to be one of the most unreliable. The new test for Covid 19 has not been validated. CDC instructions show it is a thoroughly unreliable test.

    The belief in this plandemic is turning into a religious belief. People are in such fear and panic, they cannot bring themselves to even think about it, no less, heaven forbid, read the small print.

    • Agree: Alfred, cortesar
  25. Levtraro says:
    @Johnwho

    The other big problem with the “let-the-virus-spread-for-herd-imminuty” policy is that as the immune system of humans improve to develop resistance, so does the virus mutate to improve its hold on human’s biology.

    Essentially, the “let-the-virus-spread-for-herd-imminuty” policy would increase by orders of magnitude the number of virus replications which will in turn increase manyfold the chances for adaptive mutations (adaptive for the virus).

    The lockdown and social distance policy reduces the number of virus replications which is what humans need to deprive the virus of its only mechanism for improvement.

    • Replies: @ivan
  26. COVID-19, the Kaasschaaf (cheese slicer) approach versus Vulnerability approach.

    Wathelet puts up some really good points, but then fails to avoid the trap of the Kaasschaaf approach, the Cheese Slicer approach.

    If governments have to reorganize they usually apply the Kaasschaaf approach. Meaning all the resources of the involved departments are cut with relatively the same amount. An easy approach, because everybody suffers the same. It prevents the governement from having to look for the real problems and then to provide the right solutions. As said easy to do, but dumb. If a company would do the same it would go bankrupt in a short time. Allso the big multinationals although this takes much longer.

    The Lockdown approach is typical a Kaasschaaf approach. Locking up everybody without distinction. Easy decided, doesn’t need a thorough distinctive approach. So less trouble and politicians are not vulnerable to mistakes, while purposely ignoring the Vulnerability phenomenons.

    All these kind of politicians, the MSM and the so called experts don’t show true care of people. A general Lockdown bankrupts the country’s economy and their citizens and doesn’t solve the infection problem fast enough, see Italy. Dumb again and disastrous.

    The Vulnerability approach doesn’t ignore the multiple distinctive phenomenons like age, pre-existing medical conditions, asymptomatic infected, lung vulnerabilities by polluted air and/or smoking, obesity, polluted job location, distinctions between persons in contact with, suspected of, mild symptoms, severe symptoms and in need of hospitalization.
    The Vulnerability approach is focused on these phenomenons. Thus separating and/or monitoring and medical conditioning these distinctive groups in order to save their lives. With everybody wearing a FFP2 face mask, provided by the government. Not vulnerable people work and social normally. Everybody is tested. Those who enter the country are put in quarantine, temporarily.

    China, South Korea and some others executed the Vulnerability approach mostly and with great success. Like separating different groups in different locations. Both China and South Korea tested vigorously and stimulated and relied on shared responsibility, apps and punished those who ignored their instructions.
    In both countries the government demanded people to wear masks and everybody did this, included every politician, since example behavior stimulates following. Something that Western politicians obviously don’t understand.

    China has hardly any new domestic infection arising. South Korea did the same as China but without locking down a major thing, except forbidding big gatherings. Resulting in a huge success.
    China locked down Wuhan and then only 50 other cities. Mainly because China was trying to understand what was going on. The rest of this immense country continued its economic activities nearly as normal. So people kept their jobs.

    Italy shows that the Kaasschaaf Lockdown approach only results in more and not less infected persons especially the Vulnerable ones. Wathelet finds that locking up the family and infecting all is an acceptable risk factor. To me it is playing Russian roulette, irresponsible.

    Moreover, it is clear by now that that every “corona-death” implies 1000 to 1500 infected persons. So with 1000 deaths there are over one million people infected. For Italy with nearly 11,000 deaths it means that 11 to 16 million people are infected. A general lockdown can impossible contain millions of symptomatic and asymptomatic people and still growing.

    On top of this, the COVID-19 virus will return one way or the other, mutated or not. So it is only wise to develop a herd community while protecting and medical conditioning the vulnerable ones.

    • Replies: @Alfred
    , @Anon
  27. @SimplePseudonymicHandle

    … find some derivative to bundle up rent, mortgage and credit card debt in such a way that the Fed can take it off a workingperson’s hands.

    The Fed doesn’t create wealth. It creates money, which is a claim on the national wealth, which is not just the savings and investments of “greedy capitalists,” but also includes the value of your human capital and purchasing power going forward. At the end of the day, the immediate pressure will be taken off the workinpersons’ hands, but the bigger burden going forward in our increasingly centrally run economy will rest squarely on the backs of a bigger working and peasant class than that with which we entered this mess.

  28. Hibernian says:
    @SimplePseudonymicHandle

    This is not something the rich, the corporations, the Government, or anyone, can just “pay for,” like a new Mercedes. We’re facing a 1930s style economic collapse which can be overcome only by massive pump priming. (Back then it took 10 million men in the service in 1942 to end it.)

  29. Realist says:
    @SimplePseudonymicHandle

    Look, the shut down is gonna be expensive and someone is just going to have to pay for it. Probably ought to be capital holders who have spent 40 years benefiting from the spoils of a just-in-time economy and probably not people living paycheck-to-paycheck who don’t understand where the money went and why things are the way they are.

    But that’s not the way it will be…that’s not the way it is planned. The wealthy and powerful…will become more so.

    • Agree: Old and grumpy
  30. The article as a whole.

    The gullibles industrial potion to swallow social engineering. His medical arguments then reduced to social confinement over the long term.

    Has Paul Craig Roberts reached the limits of intellectual curiousness, is it age? A man that many times was on to something, now responds to individuals as this article’s author, Marc Wathelet, a reductionist as Michael Hudson a few days earlier, Ron Unz? This only adds to the confusion of the unz.com public. Are they going to be the last to see the real-time scenario played out?

  31. Time for worldwide debt repudiation, an end to debt-based national monetary systems, 99% tax on all income over a million dollars, vast reductions in pubic spending, perhaps a Pol-Potting of superfluous (non-stem) academics and media personalities, a re-industrialization and infrastructure emphasis that will make Mao, Stalin, Hitler and Mussolini look like a kum-ba-ya quartet by comparison. An end to consumer credit–cash and carry only–, private mortgage lending at interest, limitations on agricultural monoculture and promotion of small-holdings, universal basic income… Closely examine the German economic miracle after the failure of the Weimar Republic. Like it or not, that’s the way for the USA and other Western nations to rebuild themselves in a drive toward autarchy whether or not it is truly possible for any given nation.

    Back to basics.

  32. @Anon

    I’m just wondering how long we are going to “stop the world” (or the country) in order to save the elderly who are often in their 80s and 90s (according to the case stats), and the occasional “young person”, essentially not unlike car wrecks or accidents at home do every day in the US.

    In what universe do you stop everything when, by your own numbers, you admit 80 percent of those “infected” (they make it sound like HIV) have “mild” symptoms, and another 10 or 15 percent are basically serious…with 5 more percent very serious/deadly?

    How long does this go on?

    • Replies: @botazefa
  33. Chinaman says:
    @Levtraro

    I jest, of course…

    that’s what I told people were assaulting Asian who are not even Chinese in the west. You are supposed to run away from the infected…

    in this hypothetical case, you would assault those selfish pigs while wearing masks

  34. Time for worldwide debt repudiation, an end to debt-based national monetary systems, 99% tax on all income over a million dollars, vast reductions in pubic spending, perhaps a Pol-Potting of superfluous (non-stem) academics and media personalities, a re-industrialization and infrastructure emphasis that will make Mao, Stalin, Hitler and Mussolini look like a kum-ba-ya quartet by comparison. An end to consumer credit–cash and carry only–, private mortgage lending at interest, limitations on agricultural monoculture and promotion of small-holdings, universal basic income… Closely examine the German economic miracle after the failure of the Weimar Republic. Like it or not, that’s the way for the USA and other Western nations to rebuild themselves in a drive toward autarchy whether or not it is truly possible for any given nation.

    Back to basics.

    Believe it or not, this sort of restructuring will lead to greater liberty down the road. The larp noble yeoman of some folks’ fevered imaginings is not likely to emerge in a state of unplanned anarchy; best wait for the pieces to be picked up and put in order first.

  35. @orionyx

    Have you read the field reports? Going for herd immunity as the primary suppressant of this is abject insanity, in every sense of that word.

    The “weak” who it kills will often be medical personnel and other critical workers with irreplaceable expertise.

    • Thanks: Spanky
    • Replies: @orionyx
  36. SBaker says:
    @Anonymous

    Finally, an article on the UNZ from a real microbiologist instead of some spy novel nonsense as is usually the case. The old microbiologist fraud will likely generate more comments because there are way too few informed people on this site.

    Here is a comment from a friend with a similar background in training that actually worked where the old microbiologist fraud claimed to work. Copy of a statement from an informed scientist. “Good to talk to you. The article is a typical conspiracy article that could be right out of the National Inquirer. When I was head of Infectious Disease Research for the DoD, I use to get about 1 of these every 6 months or so. Usually a reporter was going to break the next “Watergate Scandal”. Where all of this breaks down is the openness of the BW Defense program at Ft. Detrick. First of all, it is not behind fences and walls. People walk in and out of the main building all day. Yes, you have to have special permission to go beyond the entrance because there are BL3&4 agents being worked on in the labs. Secondly, if these things were happening, you would have to have 100’s of scientists and lab techs (most of them civilians) sworn to secrecy which would be just impossible in a free society such as ours. You and I know that the only reason the Unabomber took so long to catch is that he had no accomplices. Thirdly, there are a number of university scientists from all over the US that do 1 and 2 year sabbaticals at USAMRIID because they can work with BL 3 & 4 organisms on site. If nefarious things were going on in Detrick, they would be the first to blow the whistle. Stuff like this has been put out before and is usually by someone who was a poor researcher or nut job. Look up Steven Jay Hatfill. He was one of these. He knew nothing about BW but got a post doc at Detrick and went all over the place telling people he was an expert in BW. I met him and will tell you he was a bullshit artist of mega proportions. I was head of the BW program and was getting calls from contractors as far away as California wanting to know who this guy was. About that time the Anthrax Letters thing broke in 2001 and the FBI fingered him. This was stupid, because anyone who knew him knew he did not have the smarts to pull the thing off. The FBI was just ill-formed and under a great deal of pressure themselves to find the culprit. They kept up the pressure on Hatfill because of his reputation. It finally ended up with the Fed’s having to pay him a few million for damages.”

    • Agree: Lost american
    • Replies: @Republic
  37. @jim jones

    Here’s just one review,

    “ This book explains why “Made In China” means whatever you bought is probably going to fall apart. And more interestingly, why Chinese business culture is unlikely to change even as they grow more prosperous and technologically adept. And why–for all its reputation for poor quality–Westerners keep going back to China to do business. One Western sucker after another goes to China and gets snookered into a deceitful business marriage that turns bad at the moment divorce becomes too expensive to contemplate. (The Chinese work that angle masterfully.) Now I understand why when merchandise breaks, deteriorates, quits working, or otherwise disappoints, the “Made In China” label explains it all.”

    • Replies: @John Chuckman
    , @SBaker
    , @Spanky
  38. @anastasia

    Covid 19 kills in an almost uniform way. I’m not a doctor, but the cause of death will almost always be something like “ventricular arrythmia/shock secondary to acute respiratory distress with bilateral pneumonia present”.

    Whatever the technical description, where Covid 19 is the proximate or primary cause of death there should be virtually no ambiguity in almost all cases. There shouldn’t be anyone counting someone with a fractured skull who gets helicoptered in from a trauma scene as a Covid 19 death even if they happen to test positive.

    • Replies: @anastasia
  39. @onebornfree

    It’s always good to see another armchair noob volunteering to clean the ICUs of infected coronavirus patients w/without suitable PPE!

    “Volunteering” in a Chinese sense, of course.

  40. skrik says:

    Sooo many targets, sooo little time.

    All the “It’s only a ‘normal’ flu!” hysterics, plus all the “Ugly Chinese authoritarians!” screeching demagogues could have a relax, since once all the over-65s have been kidnapped then murdered [refl] then this putatively ‘normal’ flu panic will automatically expire from… Ta ra! No more targets! rgds

    • Replies: @refl
  41. @Chinaman

    Should we make all chinaman pay and or should we exclude the Uyghurs Muslims, which the hypocritical Christians in the West love so much, from taking ang responsibility?

    I don’t know about you Chinamen. If I was going to surgically remove both a prisoner’s eyeballs after median sternotomizing them, I would at least give them a few shots of whiskey first.

  42. @SimplePseudonymicHandle

    Maybe that would simply be too many hands for the Fed to shake.

  43. @cranc

    Take your thirty pieces of silver and go hang yourself.

    • Replies: @cranc
  44. @Redneck farmer

    It’s a rhetorical point.
    And while we rush to ban people from working but debt collection goes on, while we bought our way out of the mortgage crisis but can’t quite think our way out of the student loan crisis, and while the law passed in 2008 is designed so lawmakers never have to debate this again … and they don’t – Fed just pumps money, they are questions worth asking, those and lots more.
    Quants are smart people. We could do this if we had political will and policy.

  45. anastasia says:

    I am the virologist, specialist in coronaviruses and respiratory diseases, whose views differ significantly from the experts who advise the government on the management of the COVID-19 pandemic.

    The situation is dire and I would like to offer you a clear plan for getting out of the health, economic and social crisis that Belgium and the rest of the world are facing.\

    ha, ha, ha, FUNNY!!!!

  46. macilrae says:

    The WHO’s first fault was that it did not recognize that aerosol transmission was substantial and therefore that the recommendations had to be changed to contain the spread of the virus, which they still have not done.

    We seem to have a terminology issue here. The term “aerosol” is generally taken to mean small water droplets dispersed in air carrying virus – and WHO has emphasized from the very beginning that this is the primary means of transfer. By contrast, the term “airborne” in this context is used to describe free virus particles floating in the air at sufficient levels to cause infection.

    Loose terms admittedly but it’s vitally important to distinguish between them.

    The writer is clearly referring to free virus particles when he urges the use of N95/FFP2 masks. During the SARS epidemic it was believed that some infections actually did result from airborne transmission – in that case, I think, open sewage in Hong Kong was allowed to evaporate and free virus was then able to become airborne.

    Enormous numbers of medical staff can still be seen wearing the simple type of face mask and, of course, this will be a pretty good first line of defense by catching those aerosol droplets. However, a droplet caught by the gauze will quickly evaporate leaving the virus behind and there is a reasonable chance this will then be inhaled. Still, simple masks are surely better than none and these are likely to be the only type readily available at this time for most of us – WHO downplays their value except for people who are themselves infected. I am shocked to see supermarket check-out clerks still without any sort of mask.

  47. @cranc

    This fake event has killed all of Ron Unz credibility. We now know he is just another liar jew.

  48. To find out the truth about the coronavirus scam go to henrymakow.com and davidicke.com , this is a zionist scam to promote the zionist NWO agenda!

  49. @anastasia

    The normies, i.e. the uninformed masses who follow received opinion, have been well-trained to ‘trust’ the word of their masters, who want them panicking while the final looting of the treasury by the banksters takes place right in front of their noses.

    But, once it becomes evident that the economic collapse has occurred and society has been looted, even the normies will begin to understand that the finance capitalists running their world were not doing so in the best interests of the people.

    • Replies: @PetrOldSack
  50. @ThreeCranes

    That makes little sense because almost all merchandise you buy today – from high- or low-end retail – comes from China.

    They literally make everything.

    And they do a damn good job.

    I’ve many items from China I value for their beauty and skilful construction.

    Some very artistic stuff too.

    • Replies: @ThreeCranes
  51. Tor597 says:
    @Chinaman

    White people spent the first crucial month and a half of the outbreak thinking they are immune and it only kills Chinese.

    And that it only kills old people, so young people could still go out and party.

  52. Agent76 says:

    Mar 30, 2020 The Totally Spontaneous Health Worker Balcony Applause Phenomenon – #PropagandaWatch

    Are you thanking the valiant soldiers in the war on the invisible enemy? Yes? Good. But are your thanking them in the right way? At the appropriate time? Using the state-sanctioned hashtag? No?

    Mar 23, 2020 Possible New Cure for Chinese Coronavirus?

    Mar 23, 2020 Medical Experts Discuss Dr. Zelenko’s Coronavirus Hydroxychloroquine Treatment w/ 100% Success Rate

  53. SBaker says:
    @ThreeCranes

    How right you are. I sat next to a mechanical engineer a few months ago during a routine business trip. The guy asked what I did and I the same. He was an executive in a company that made industrial gears for lots of heavy equipment from ships to submarines. Anyway, the conversation led to me asking where they sourced their steel. He said, we now manufacture our own steel. We tried China and India, both of which failed our quality control standards. If you want high quality, you will not find it in China. He gave a fascinating account of why his company had to manufacture their steel in the US. He did mention, that Japan had good quality control but somewhat less quality in the materials they needed for some of their gears.

    I have a lifelong friend that lived and conducted business in Hong Kong for 5 years. Terry said if you want to know how the Chinese conduct business, read Noble House by James Clavell. Corruption and dishonesty is considered SOP in Chinese business deals. Trump has their number too.

    • Agree: jim jones
  54. Truly Excellent common sense article.
    Actually case in China was considerably less difficult to overcome than in US.
    The China had only one center of contagion.
    US has many centers, caused by people returning to US.
    ………………………………………………………………………………
    Now really how difficult is to manufacture those mask so everybody can wear them.
    And how come nobody determined yet how to sterilize them.
    (Could microwave oven by any help?)
    PCR is absolutely right about aerosol transmission!!!! That should be immediately prevented.
    Less attention is necessary for surfaces, although that is important too.

  55. @James Scott

    First try to understand what you see.
    Than only you may speculate, But rather carefully

  56. botazefa says:
    @refl

    The author thinks that teleworking has anything to do with essential economic activity?

    I read the comment as pointing out that teleworking would keep people from spreading the virus and not a statement on the essentialness of teleworkers.

    • Replies: @refl
  57. AKAHorace says:

    Marc Wathelet says

    Furthermore, I tried to communicate the importance of recycling FFP2 masks, without any success. It is a matter of life and death. These masks are considered for single use and staffs throw them away too quickly. This is not the place to be technical, but I have proposed four methods to recycle them and they must be implemented according to the sterilization equipment available in hospitals, information that I have still not been able to obtain. We must educate medical staff on how to extend the life of these masks and recycle them, today, the urgency is immense.

    Is there anyway that members of the public can make and reuse facemasks ? This would be very useful information to post on the Unz website.

    • Replies: @Republic
    , @Saggy
  58. botazefa says:
    @OscarWildeLoveChild

    How long does this go on?

    I read somewhere that we’re always “two meals and twenty-four hours” away from total chaos. Bars and restaurants were closed where I live about 10 days ago. That’s a lot of low income unemployed. Those folks will be running out of food soon, confined to home by our stay at home order.

    Two weeks, max is my guess on how long it lasts in the current form. Those treasury checks won’t arrive in time to help. What’s your guess?

    • Replies: @OscarWildeLoveChild
  59. anastasia says:

    I think that deep down the people know it is a phony, and that is why they are staying away from hospitals. That is whybusiness is bad at the hospitals. They know that if they go, they will be tested, and they might have it, because they have been told that you don’t need any symptoms to have this disease, a disease like no other. They are afraid of being quarantined or WORSE, hospitalized with people in hazmat suits looking down at you, and you have high blood pressure and don’t need that kind of excitement. . Maybe some of them know how toxic those anti-viral medications are, especially older people.

    WHAT THEY ARE HEARING FROM THE MEDIA

    People hear what I am hearing. What do I hear from the media? I hear that so and so has corona virus. The media then turns to the corona victim who speaks to us, looking healthy as a horse.

    What else do they hear? They hear that the very old, with major underlying illnesses, are dying of corona virus, and many, if not most, are in their eighties and nineties, often upper nineties, people so vulnerable they could die from the stress of a bad cold.

    What else are they hearing? They are hearing that many people have mild symptoms and recover.

    WHAT THEY ARE NOT HEARING AND SHOULD BE HEARING FROM THE MEDIA

    What are they NOT hearing: We are not hearing any statistics about flus, how many are hospitalized each year, and how many die from flu each year. This basis of comparison is not pertinent, is not newsworthy? The public has no interest in these things?

    We are not hearing how many corona victims have been hospitalized in each area, in each hospital in NYC, how many are in regular rooms; how many are on ventilators or receiving oxygen. They are not filming in hospitals where the patients are. We are not seeing full emergency rooms.. We are not seeing people in those tents they are putting up everywhere. We are not seeing any people in the make-shift hospitals. We are not seeing any victims of this disease on ventilators in any hospitals. (unlike China that had every reporter in the middle of that contagion of the hospitals). Instead, whenever they talk about a hospital in New York, they show the same line at Elmhurst Hospital, which is the hospital where all Riker’s Island prisoners go, where they ORDINARILY treat 200 patients per day, where they may have afree clinic, where they may be dispensing “methodone”.

    We are not being told how many people over 80 die every few seconds in this country, as a basis for comparison. They are not giving us anything to compare these deaths they are posting every day, like stock market statistics, on every media station.

    We are not hearing absolutely nothing about the Swine Flu hoax,(even though that was one of the exposes on 60 minutes years ago). Nor do we hear anything from the media about the prior hysteria about the anticipated “pandemics” from SARS and MERS and EBOLA, and even BIRD FLU. They don’t want to remind any of us about their wrong predictions for fear we may begin to suspect this one. (and there is not much difference between “droplets” and “aerosol” transmittal either). If they did not wait to have these lock downs and business closures on those prior alleged “pandemics”, this country would have been destroyed a long time ago.

    We are not hearing about ANY PERSON who had no other underlying illness, who comes down with flu like symptoms that turns very serious and they die. And if the media even suggests to us that there is such a victim, they do it by simply not asking anyone the pertinent questions of the doctor, family or anyone else about such a victim, but we rarely, if ever, hear about such a victim.

    No one in the media is talking about the test itself, that the PCR test is reputed to be unreliable, that when it was used for SARS, even the media reported it was “unreliable”, and SARS is a corona virus, and they are suggesting we use this old SARS tests for the new corona virus. They are acting as if this test has the accuracy of Oswald’s gun.

    The entire media is towing the party line. Yeah, listen to them. Listen to what they are NOT saying.

    .

    • Replies: @Alfred
    , @Marshall Lentini
  60. cranc says:
    @ploni almoni

    It is Unz who has betrayed us. If he cannot present even a response to the evidentially supported critiques of the ‘extremely deadly killer virus’ narrative, then that is a clear sign to me that he is propagandising.
    Disagreement is healthy, to be expected, helps us all; whereas pounding us with one side of an argument whilst ignoring the other is always attempted manipulation – no matter what the subject under discussion.

    • Troll: L.K
    • Replies: @Robert Dolan
    , @Zarathustra
  61. anastasia says:
    @Negrolphin Pool

    The report from that doctor was that his patient died of kidney failure, but because his patient tested “positive” with the unreliable, unvalidated test, they are marked down as “corona” deaths. He very obviously did not believe his patient died of corona virus, or he would not have complained about it, nor did that nurse, who complained about their instructions from the CDC. The instruction from the CDC is intrusive, replacing the clinical judgment of the doctor with their need for statistics to justify their “pandemic”. They are being pressured. I think that is obvious from the complaint itself.

    • Replies: @Adam Smith
  62. Yet more bull. Disappointed in Dr. Roberts for putting this crap up. It’s his site, however, just as it’s UR’s prerogative to post it. So I give.

    • Agree: Rev. Spooner
  63. @Anon

    Agree! As I just wrote in an email to some friends:

    I’ve argued for several weeks that we are in a “fog of war” situation, i.e., critical decisions MUST be made but there is insufficient information upon which to make these decisions. On the one hand, if estimates of SARS-COV-19’s infectiousness and lethality are as great as some think then, without extreme public health` interventions, including some that take a wrecking ball to the economy and the Bill of Rights, we face death rates not seen since the 1918 Spanish Influenza Pandemic. On the other hand, if the estimates of SARS-COV-19’s infectiousness and lethality are much too high or, even more frightening, there is no “herd immunity” and the pandemic recurs each year, then we may wind up destroying our economy and creating nation-destroying levels of social unrest, while ultimately not affecting the course of the current pandemic in any meaningful way. After stupid and ill-advised complacency during the early stages of the current pandemic, our ruling elite and their policy makers seem to have panicked, assumed the worst, and adopted the first option.

    My personal feeling is that this was a serious mistake. Far less stringent public health measures would have been the best option, e.g., encouraging the wearing of face masks in public (which the CDC has evidently just begun doing after discouraging the practice for nearly two months), banning large gatherings, and quarantining those who are obviously ill. This would have moderated pandemic deaths while not wrecking the economy and generating social disorder. It’s too late for that now. We’ve already shattered the economy ( http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/supplies-are-starting-to-get-really-tight-nationwide-as-food-distribution-systems-break-down ). Social disorder on a massive scale is almost certain to follow.

    The saddest part of all this is that even if SARS-COV-19’s infectiousness and lethality are as high as the more extreme estimates suggest, we might have been better off with a restrained public health policy. The results would have been ugly, something like the 1918 Pandemic with the medical system overwhelmed and bodies piling up in the streets. The political parties in charge would be damaged beyond repair as a result of their apparent malfeasance. But when the dust settled, the country would recover quickly. The economy would still be intact, or at least not much worse than before. In fact, a significant amount of economic and demographic deadwood and drags on the economy , e.g., unproductive pensioners like me, disabled persons, the “homeless”, etc., might be effortlessly removed from this vale of tears, society and the economy. From a purely utilitarian standpoint this would be a net benefit to the country.

    After disruptions like those I’m envisioning, as the inevitable result of current public health policies, the only way the ruling elite and establishment can retain control is with a catastrophic distraction, e.g., a national coup d’etat or phony revolution, or an international war of WW I proportions. I‘m expecting that very bad things will follow in the wake of this pandemic and the ruling elites’ responses.

    • Thanks: Agent76
  64. tucsonSteve says: • Website
    @Been_there_done_that

    On January 21, Wuhan Institute of Virology filed a “new uses” patent for Gilead’s Remdesivir for use in the treatment of cv-19.
    http://news.sciencenet.cn/htmlnews/2020/2/435384.shtm
    In Chinese, google will translate
    They knew about this virus long enough ahead of time to do the research and collect the clinical data to support a patent application.
    Wuhan Institute of Virology only a few blocks from the open-air wet meat market that is suspected as the original source of the virus hopping from animal to human.

    • Replies: @Been_there_done_that
  65. Anon[249] • Disclaimer says:

    Last I looked, there were 165K infected and sick and 37K deaths in America. Last census 10 years ago claimed 320 million US residents.

    Couple years ago there were 80K flu deaths.

    The stats on the Asian immigrant, tourist, business travelers parts of California are amazingly good for a dit “disastrous epidemic “.

    Who believes the Drudgereport hysteria or any state coming out of China?

    A friend is looking for her gr grandmother’s birth and marriage certificates. Woman’s name was Katherine Anne Conway, 3 very, very common names. Friend found dozens of Katherine Anne Conways the right age. But most of them died in 1918. Presumably if the Wrongly named Spanish flu. Should be called the Untermeyer Wilson flu.

    My mottos are better safe than sorry prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

    But really, this is just another the Sky is falling article. And who believes any stats coming out of China. Fresh off the boat California Chinese don’t believe them, why should the media believe Chinese statistics?

  66. @Anonymous

    This is a bit more complicated and Marc Wathelet has got the wrong end of the stick. I suggest you watch the Corbett Report https://youtu.be/bM9aZflBoOU or this interview https://youtu.be/nuOWwq-zX6s. Both are a bit longish but you will gen an in-depth information about Covid-19.

  67. @cranc

    Ron didn’t “betray” anybody.

    He happens to have a different opinion than you do.

    BFD.

    He allowed your comment didn’t he?

    He posts my comments and I don’t agree with him either.

    • Agree: John Chuckman
    • Replies: @cranc
  68. Anon[249] • Disclaimer says:
    @Uradel666

    Agree agree agree. Most of us were in our early teens to middle age during the 1980s media hoax about heterosexual AIDS. Remember? Everybody who’s ever had sex will get it? A total lie. Even the druggies who use needles, it’s mostly sodomy men who get it.

    There was anorexia, hundreds of thousands of good student obedient middle class White girls starving themselves. Another lie.

    Early 1970s vegetarian diet, no white sugar but an over load of natural fruit vegetable and carb sugar was the cure for everything.

    Here’s what my extended family and friends are doing. They’re taking all the precautions and obeying the rules. Some believe it’s a return of the Black Plague Others are as cynical as I am.

    Population of 320 million according to a 9 year old census. 165K infected 37K deaths and mass hysteria ensues.

    • Agree: Uradel666
  69. @anastasia

    He very obviously did not believe his patient died of corona virus, or he would not have complained about it, nor did that nurse, who complained about their instructions from the CDC.

    But he followed orders and marked it down as corona anyway.

    • Replies: @John Chuckman
  70. The population in lockdown.

    Below is today’s complete speech of PM of Pakistan. It is 17:13 minutes long and it is in Urdu addressed to his nation and people. What I understand he is saying due to extreme poverty in Pakistan, they cannot have complete lock down as they don’t have the resources, and people will die of extreme hunger. Think about it how will it effect the entire world. I believe extreme poverty is the biggest disease and virus of the world. God has given us so many resources and only Israel is destroying these resources.

    We could ask our resident Pakistani Talha to probably help translate the speech of Pakistani PM!

    • Thanks: fatmanscoop
  71. Alfred says:

    I have very skeptical about the data. There are too many videos online showing empty hospitals while the TV is telling the masses that hospitals are full of cadavers.

    Here is a piece by an Irish writer based in London. Obviously, the BBC and all the rest of them would never admit that his information is correct.

    Covid-19’s meant to be a new Black Death, but in Britain no more people are dying than NORMAL. What does this say about the virus? (March 31, 2020)

  72. Republic says:
    @SBaker

    So what the truth about that guy who killed himself? Was he innocent? Hatfield was very lucky not to have been framed by the feds.

    • Replies: @SBaker
  73. Republic says:
    @AKAHorace

    Many utube videos address this issue regarding the making of masks

  74. @Chinaman

    How many Tibetans has China killed by illegally occupying that land in the Himalayas? Hold all of China responsible for the crime of the century against mankind.

    • Replies: @Alfred
    , @DB Cooper
  75. Alfred says:
    @Ton Jacobs

    I agree completely.

    All these “experts” assume that they know what the “essential” jobs are. They have no idea how complex modern society is. What is the point of “saving” people from a transitory infection if they are unable to earn a living?

    The reality is that only a certain segment of the population is at risk of dying – those who have health problems such diabetes, obesity, cancers, the immunosuppressed, the infirm elderly and so on. The other 80% of the population should be allowed to get on with its life – without obligatorily wearing masks.

    The one-size-fits-all approach is profoundly damaging to the economic structure of the country. The 20% that is at risk are generally not economically active.

    A long time ago, in Iran, a favourite punishment was to brick people up in their own homes. They could survive for weeks before dying of hunger. We seem to be heading in the same direction.

  76. Poco says:
    @Chinaman

    I kicked 32 asian’s asses yesterday for wearing a mask. Dumbass.

  77. @cranc

    How many extra deaths overall so far? Anybody?

    Sanity of mind starts there, the mere fact that this number is never announced, is enough to declare foul play, the team of old foxes at unz.com having skin in the game, all hungry for scraps, lastly the general public incapable of grasping that “no data in” amounts to “all data out” result fabricated. The tactics are standard bankers´ approach, brokers fare. You readers are the dead end of the newsletter. The real exponential part of Coronavirus is not about death counts, but the social engineering and international repositioning of the US elites at works. What is even better, the commenters are adding to keep the scare alive, it will depend on when interest in the issue is lost on when the backtracking and declaring victory will start. The stock-markets bell remember …and the applause?

  78. @John Chuckman

    One example he gave was the small complimentary shampoo and conditioner you get in your motel shower. What’s in em? Who knows? When AN American contractor took one to a chemical lab for analysis, they answered something to the effect that they could check for a specific compound relatively cheaply, all he had to do was to tell them what to look for. But to analyze the stuff completely from scratch would be very expensive. That’s why nobody does it.

    Same with the steel the other commenter commented on. What’s in the steel you purchase from China? You see, it’s in the hidden things where quality can be compromised; stuff buried deep within a product, like bearings in a blender, stuff like that.

    To be sure, China makes good stuff, but I would assume that any product made where a knowledgeable, incorruptible inspector is not on duty 24/7 would be suspect. What’d they used to say in the Cold War about missiles? “TRUST, BUT VERIFY”.

    • Disagree: John Chuckman
  79. Agent76 says:

    Nov 4, 2019 Event 201 Pandemic Exercise: Segment 4, Communications Discussion and Epilogue Video

    Event 201 is a pandemic tabletop exercise hosted by The Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security in partnership with the World Economic Forum and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation on October 18, 2019, in New York, NY. The exercise illustrated the pandemic preparedness efforts needed to diminish the large-scale economic and societal consequences of a severe pandemic.

    • Replies: @Desert Fox
  80. Alfred says:
    @anastasia

    I entirely agree. Everything is one sided. They never present two virologists or two epidemiologists with opposing views. They keep the ones who don’t go along with the official version out of view. It is so obvious.

    It is just like 9/11 when not a single structural or civil engineer was interviewed on the mainstream media. Even the firemen were not interviewed – but they were repeatedly called “heroes” by all the politicians who were in on the game. Later, the firemen were allowed to die of radiation cancers in the dark.

  81. @botazefa

    I really don’t know anything more than a non-educated guess. Here goes:

    1. No election in Nov. 2020.

    2. Certain states break off, seal their borders, create trade with other countries and activate their national guard and if on the coast (the most likely one’s to break off), create their own navy. states join together to form new nations (Texas, Louisiana Eastern Oklahoma; Eastern Washington State, Eastern Oregon and N. California) and in other cases, cities become City-states (NYC) and basically become like Singapore, engaging in massive trade and imports, but not much else as far as infrastructure.

    3. Initially its just a few states/areas, but within 18 months, there are 5-6 “nations” and a few city-states (Miami, NYC, LA). A rump state remains in the DC/DelMarVa area, along with NC and eastern PA.

    • Replies: @John Chuckman
  82. @cranc

    No and No!
    Covid 19 is not extremely deadly killer.
    The problem is that this virus spreads as wildfire.
    And governments are inept to stop the spreading.

  83. Alfred says:
    @Really No Shit

    If the Chinese had not occupied Tibet, the Indians or the Americans would have used it as a base to attack China. Tibet is a drain on the Chinese economy. It is isolated, with few resources and poor people. But the Chinese have no real choice in the matter. The wealth of China is mostly close to the coast – for obvious reasons. If you were an investor, would you build a factory in Tibet?

    Why do you think Russia had two wars recently in Chechnya? Why do you think they are supporting Syria and Iran? They are trying to keep the Americans away from their borders.

  84. 12 Experts Questioning the Coronavirus Panic

    https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/24/12-experts-questioning-the-coronavirus-panic/

    10 MORE Experts Criticising the Coronavirus Panic

    https://tinyurl.com/wqnmyou

    • Thanks: mark green
  85. cranc says:
    @Robert Dolan

    I think there is a frustration that Ron hasn’t engaged with a set of arguments. I am not bothered how he responds to me personally, it is the lack of response to Ioanidis, Bhakdi, Lee, Sumption, Bendavid, Battacharya and many others that bothers me and many others on these threads.
    If he disagrees, fine, great, let’s hear it. All I hear is the ignoring of a set of coherent, rational and substantiated arguments of great significance, at the same time as the singing of a harmony line with the propaganda media.
    I apologise for the language, but it was in response to being told to ‘go and hang yourself’.

    • Agree: Felix Culpa
  86. @OscarWildeLoveChild

    Possibilities.

    When you let the whole system be smashed, there’s no telling what can result.

  87. Unlike most of you, apparently, I have to treat the virus as real. I have no choice.

    But just for fun, let us spin out a conspiracy theory.

    Suppose that, all along, this rag has been just what some have accused it of, sheepdogging the alt-righters, the confused liberatarians, the generally unalligned, those interested in comments that aren’t censored, hoovering up all the ones the regular mainstream conservative outlets don’t get.

    And now that they have us, this organ, along with all the others, is brainwashing us into martial law.

    I don’t really believe it. I can’t afford to. And anyhow, they all look so scared on TV. I suspect that, even if it was a conspiracy at first, it got out of hand (as it always does with these incompetents), and now they’re being forced to pay the piper. Thus, the impossible-to-fake look of abject fear in the eyes of politicians and other officials who are usually not good actors.

    • Agree: Spanky
  88. @Alfred

    That’s absolutely correct.

  89. @Adam Smith

    Adam Smith was a very rational, thoughtful, and decent man.

  90. L.K says:
    @James Scott

    This fake event has killed all of Ron Unz credibility. We now know he is just another liar jew.

    Not really…

    You are just another stupid asshole though…

    • Replies: @Gleimhart Mantooso
  91. refl says:
    @botazefa

    Certainly, but this bit reveals the attitude of the author and the whole bunch of corona lovers.

    These are people who work for the government and corporations that are trying to implement home office as a substitute for their present organisation.

    It foments a process that has been going on for years already. These people don’t suffer anything in the current crisis situation.
    Those who are suffering are small buisnesses and shop keepers who are loosing out to Amazon and other delivery services..
    Anyone, who spends his day starring at a computer screen will rather be reliefed to do so from his home. It is a most convenient form of a “war”. The money comes in anyway, they spare themselves meeting their superiors. All the while, they click on the latest corona news and are fascinated to see the graph flattening out, as the most recent garbage data is entered to fix the narrative.

    • Replies: @cortesar
  92. @Maple Curtain

    But, once it becomes evident that

    , real-time is the perspective of the winner, historical adjustment suits the loser. Being a “debunker” of historical issues, Holy-caust, The Second World War, USS Liberty, Pearl Harbor, Kennedy… That is just masturbation, innocent, submissive. When the nexus between taking action and comprehension is not there, necessitating the present, no issue.

  93. JonArts says: • Website

    A research paper from India shows how the immune system of mice was strengthened by the oral consumption of borax:

    Boron Induces Lymphocyte Proliferation and Modulates the Priming Effects of Lipopolysaccharide on Macrophages
    Indusmita Routray, Shakir Ali, Department of Biochemistry, Faculty of Science, Jamia Hamdard Deemed University, Hamdard Nagar, New Delhi, 110062, India
    Downloaded from: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4774930/pdf/pone.0150607.pdf

    Boron, which has been suggested for its role in infection, is reported in this study to increase lymphocyte proliferation and the secretion of CMI by the lipopolysaccharide (LPS)-stimulated peritoneal macrophages in BALB/c mice.” The best reported results with the mice were achieved by administration orally 4.6 mg of borax per kg of body weight.

    I contacted Prof. Shakir Ali and he wrote back: “In fact, I was thinking in a similar way; but, unfortunately, my lab is not equipped to perform tests on viruses. Boron can augment the innate immune responses and I believe it should be able to lower the risk of COVID-19 on supplementation.”

    For humans, this 4.6 mg of borax per kg of body weight could be achieved by dissolving a teaspoon (5 g) of borax powder in 750 ml of water and consuming a tablespoon (15 ml containing 100 mg of borax) of this dilution, three to five times per day (for 300 to 500 mg borax per day) depending on the body weight of 65 to 109 kg. The human application for COVID-19 of this method is speculative. On the other hand, there is no danger of overdose reported for borax.

    • Replies: @Father O'Hara
  94. Anon[567] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ton Jacobs

    I’m in California, one of the biggest population, Asian immigration, international airports, tourism, business travelers states that should be highly infected.

    But we aren’t; due to early school, entertainment, public gathering places bars, restaurants, clubs, libraries, swimming pools parks community centers, country and other clubs, and most of all workplace closings. My kid’s school closed Monday March 1. 2 weeks before we were notified the school was preparing on line curriculum and Skype lectures in case a close by was necessary

    This article is just cherry picking the very worst scenarios and claiming the entire country is affected with patients dying on hospital floors, and bodies stacked up in refrigerated trucks.

    Take all the recommended precautions but don’t believe the media manufactured hysteria. Remember Y2 K whatever the media made up about what would happen at 12:01 am January 1 2000?

    Or Katrina? Thousands of towns from Florida to Texas took care of themselves the way they’ve been doing since the first European settlements 450 years ago and the Indians before that.

    But if you read the media, the only place it hit was New Orleans, not even the suburbs and President Bush personally sent the hurricane to Nee Orleans.

    I haven’t commented much since the site focused on the China virus. I should stop reading till things get back to normal.

  95. DB Cooper says:
    @Really No Shit

    It is India that invaded Tibet (in 1951, almost four years after the British has left the subcontinent) and is still occupying a piece of it as of today, including Tawang, birthplace of the Sixth Dalai Lama and home to a four hundred years old Tibetan monastery. Today South Tibet is under India occupation completed with a law that allows the Indian state to detain or kill anyone with impunity. The law called AFSPA is meant to suppress dissent and is imposed on area India deemed ‘disturbed’, such as Kasmir and South Tibet. Under AFSPA rape Tibetan girls and women by Indians are not even recognized as a crime. And rape by Indians in occupied South Tibet is rampant. No surprise there.

    “How many Tibetans has China killed by illegally occupying that land in the Himalayas? ”
    Patrick French, a one time president of a ‘Free Tibet’ shop in london and a personal friend of the Dalai Lama has investigated this by travelling to China and asking the Dalai Lama for help in providing information and concluded there is no such things allegated by the Dalai Lama. He even published his finding on the NYTimes which in essense refute the Dalai Lama claims.

    Chinese people simply don’t do weird shit like ethnic oppression. You people do.

  96. CSFurious says:

    This guy is crazy. I could find you multiple doctors or scientists who would agree.

  97. @Been_there_done_that

    So what part of ‘this was ENGINEERED BIO ATTACK’ dont you understand? Italy was infected deliberately, proof Italians had NO contact with China suddenly has a massive outbreak. Connect the dots. This was made in a lab. These things are NOT natural and contain genes that have been ‘spliced’ into them. Impossible for viruses to ‘jump from bats to humans’. This is BIO WAREFARE period. Chinese govt knows this. Xi’s comments ‘we are at war’.
    https://www.veteranstoday.com/2020/03/31/sars-bioterrorism-and-the-media/

  98. Anon[544] • Disclaimer says:
    @Alfred

    The Tibetans were mown down by the Maxim guns as they fled. “I got so sick of the slaughter that I ceased fire, though the general’s order was to make as big a bag as possible”, wrote Lieutenant Arthur Hadow, commander of the Maxim guns detachment. “I hope I shall never again have to shoot down men walking away.”[20]

    Guess who was in Tibet and killing the Tibetans?

    The British Raj already took part of Tibet, which has now become part of India. India annexed Sikkim, and it would surely annex the whole Tibet if given the chance. Have media in the West ever talked about Sikkim or the mistreatment of Sikkimese and Tibetans in India?

    • Replies: @DB Cooper
  99. @orionyx

    Absolutely correct. Makes you wonder why there is so little mainstream news regarding “strengthening” your immune system via food and sunlight. There is a great article comparing low zinc levels and corona virus symptoms:

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/03/bill-sardi/emergency-room-doctor-doesnt-realize-major-signs-symptoms-of-covid-19-coronavirus-cases-match-evidences-of-zinc-deficiency/

    • Replies: @anastasia
  100. @Alfred

    Not only as a “fortress” for an attack on China but also……China geta it’s fresh water from the Tibetian plateau. No water no life.

  101. cortesar says:
    @refl

    Most definitely that is another group who (out of self interest) cheers for doom

    • Replies: @PetrOldSack
  102. refl says:
    @skrik

    once all the over-65s have been kidnapped then murdered [refl]

    Maybe, I should explain that to you:
    Most doctors – and I would certainly include this one – are bad doctors. Otherwise, this nightmarish “cure” that works by driving people into a state of extreme hysteria and forcing them to fend everyone for himself would be impossible.
    Doctors used to know their clients, have a word with them and take an interest in their wellbeing. Such a doctor would know that elderly people want to be with their loved ones and not be locked up indefinitely for the remaining life that they might have.
    The “doctors” who invented social distancing as a cure have no idea of what life actually means to people, who certainly have seen more and been through more then they themselves can imagine. These “doctors” are addicts to their computer screens and graphs, possibly also indepted to their most recent contract with Big Pharma, whose latest product they have to sell to meet the requirement for some bonus.
    And, yes, such doctors do more harm then good. On the other thread, someone wrote the number of casualties per year due to wrong treatment.

    The current disaster is also killing the reputation of the medical profession.

    • Replies: @cortesar
    , @skrik
  103. cortesar says:

    Yesterday somebody published a video showing an empty parking lot in front of a Brooklyn hospital
    Zero activity, no trace of panic no “war room”, no single new patient arriving
    This clearly shows (along with crowds in parks) that most of the people know that this a hoax
    The reason why they still cheer for doom is pure self interest (some of which is as sample as jealousy and resentment)

  104. DB Cooper says:
    @Anon

    India invaded and annexed South Tibet in 1951, almost four years after the British has already left. Tawang was flying the Nationalist Chinese flag right up to 1951 when it was invaded and annexed by India.

    Of course he MSM never talks about the mistreatment of the Tibetans and Sikkimese by the Indians. It is not uncommon for the Indians to call the Tibetans names. If they thought they were Han Chinese, the Indians called them chinks. If they know they were Tibetans, the Indians called them momos (an ethnic slurs used by the Indians on the Tibetans in India).

    There is actually a lot of resentment of the Tibetans in India and the India security apparatus (RAW) are well aware of this.

    Free South Tibet from the shithole India.

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Malla
  105. anastasia says:

    Doc interview on FOX 3/31/20:

    “Well, you know, I am really starting to see it this week.  This week I have had  patients with runny noses, some coughing, and one had a bit of a tight feeling in her chest.  I FEEL they are all corona cases, and the patient with that tightness maybe will wind up on a ventilator.”  

    GOOD NIGHT NURSE

  106. cortesar says:
    @refl

    Most of the doctors are incompetent fools, just like most of engineers are incompetent fools, just like most of xxxxx are incompetent fools.
    That is the real disease of this age

  107. Saggy says: • Website
    @AKAHorace

    This vid gives the how to for sterilizing masks at the26:00 mark, basically 30 minutes in a 200 deg. F oven.

    • Replies: @Alfred
  108. The author claims the virus spreads in aerosol form, as opposed to heavier than air liquid droplets propelled by sneezing but only into the immediately surrounding area.

    Then he writes: “And the sooner (a lockdown) is implemented, the fewer people will be infected, hospitalized and dead in the final assessment.”

    What does he think a lockdown will do? Permanently isolate people so they never breathe in contaminated air?

    It seems to me if the virus is as contagious as he seems to think it is then it will eventually spread through most of the population. Slowing down the spread can be useful to make best use of scarce equipment like ventilators but the fatality rate will depend on the virulence of the virus itself, not on the rate at which it spreads.

    The media did not wait for evidence the disease is particularly deadly before going full hysteria. The public health authorities have done nothing I know of in Canada to dampen the hysteria.

    In the absence of reliable information I will continue to observe this “pandemic” is a basic course in surviving a biological weapon attack.

  109. Don’t be stupid; China didn’t recover.

    • Replies: @Chinaman
  110. SBaker says:
    @Republic

    “So what the truth about that guy who killed himself? Was he innocent? Hatfield was very lucky not to have been framed by the feds.””

    I don’t know the answer to that question. What I do know personally is 5 scientists that worked with Bruce Ivins at USAMRIID for many years, and everyone of them says “he didn’t do it.”

    Hatfill was a known conartist who inflated his resume and got caught by several employers. Hatfill got most of his “training” in 3rd world institutions located in Africa. This information is available on the Internet. The note I got by email from another friend I worked with is real and the retired Col that sent it is also real and knows the truth, having worked at USAMRIID for several years. The conspiracy nuts that string together a scattering of information to weave a narrative like a spy novel, don’t know any of these people and very few of them know what they are writing about. I’m just an old retired scientists myself having spent my career as a research scientist mostly in academic settings. I also spent 15 years instructing emergency responders on how to deal with infectious agents. The scientist that wrote this article knows what he is writing about.

  111. @Anonymous

    Even those who are too propagandised to trust China can clearly see that lockdowns are working in many other nations.

    I’ve improved your wording. You’re welcome:

    Even those who are too intelligent to trust China can clearly see that only a naive dum-dum would take the Chi-coms at their word.

    • Agree: SBaker
    • Disagree: John Chuckman, Spanky
  112. Pft says:

    PCR has exposed himself, as have some many others on the alt-media circuit, joining MSM in this game changing psyops.

    There are no excess deaths in Europe

    https://www.euromomo.eu/index.html

    Italy has an uptick but its only experiencing higher deaths with a mortality rate ranked 3rd over 5 years in Italy. Meaning they had 2 flu seasons in the last 5 years that were not covid related and yet had more deaths

    In Italy and other countries they are just calling more of those pneumonia deaths as COVID deaths. In my country an elderly COVID patient with serious heart condition who recovered from pneumonia and after release died of a heart attack. He goes down as a COVID death. Lol

    In the US its hard to get data thats not absolute garbage. That is by design. The record will show mortality rate has not increased significantly, although suicides and deaths from untreated diseases due to fear of going to hospital or hospitals cancelling appointments/surgeries will increase.

  113. cortesar says:

    More female hysteria, but I am repeating myself

    • Replies: @botazefa
  114. @James Scott

    This fake event has killed all of Ron Unz credibility. We now know he is just another liar jew.

    It’s understandable, getting so fed up with Jew treachery we figure they’re all like that. Even Ron Unz.

    I can detect controlled opposition in picograms/liter.

    Ron Unz provides an increasingly popular forum, ad-free, where we discuss the Jew taboo without restraint. Ron himself contributes valuable insights into it.

    If Ron said the hell with it I don’t need this & folded up shop, would you like that?

    • Replies: @John Johnson
    , @Spanky
  115. Anon[392] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    Sometimes it’s hard for people to trust in China because the many who are too propagandised, or propagandized, to see anything not matching their out-of-this-world positive idealisation of it, make, by their untrustworthiness, the object of their devotion untrustworthy by association.

    Which is a fallacy one shouldn’t fall for, because China has nothing to do with a smattering of people posting unbalanced comments online on how it be a beacon unto humankind.

  116. @Agent76

    Agree completely.

    • Thanks: Agent76
  117. Well what happened is that our PC country didn’t have the guts to do what was needed.

    It was too politically incorrect to state the obvious which was to quarantine every single person that had flown in from Wuhan. That means racial profiling or something.

    The other problem is that smartest White men aren’t going into government and everyone knows it.

    They are expected to go into tech and make zippy doo-dads so rich kids and minorities can play with their government toy.

    Genuises are loathed by both parties. We expect liberals to hate smart White men but conservatives are just as bad. They like simplistic solutions wrapped around “minimal government” and other feely good nonsense. Just a big recipe for a stupid disaster like this one.

  118. @James Scott

    Truly ugly stuff.

    The sentiments of Nazis to be rejected by all decent people.

  119. Chinaman says:
    @Gleimhart Mantooso

    When WHO and China give you guys the heads up about the virus and ask you to lockdown, dumbass like you said

    Don’t be stupid, it is just a flu and a hoax.

    When America is in the throes of the virus and China said the virus can be beaten and is everyone is already back to work.

    Dumbas ass like you said Don’t be stupid, they didn’t recovered.

    When America is finally recovering,

    dumbass like you will say Don’t be stupid, this virus is really going to kill us all!

    • Replies: @Gleimhart Mantooso
  120. Spanky says:
    @Sick of Orcs

    Since the 2017-2018 influenza outbreak has already run its course and the Covid-19 pandemic is just getting started, have you considered that your comparison lacks a certain… something?

    Am constantly amazed that all the flu comparisons miss that one simple factor — time.

  121. anastasia says:

    resident’s Press Conference 3/31/10:

    Journalist: “BUT WHAT CAN WE EXPECT WITH THE CORONA VIRUS PATIENTS IN THE WEEKS TO COME!!!???

    Answer: “The number of deaths will go up, and then they will come down.”

    Reminds me of Mayor Wagner in New York: Journalist: “Well Mayor, do you think it will happen”
    Mayor Wagner: “It’s possible but not probable.”

    Still haven’t found out how many victims in hospitals, on ventilators, and not on ventilators in New York or in any other state, even Rhode Island.

    Enough of the plague. The President went onto the important stuff

    The President then went on to speak at great length about his impeachment and how not one Republican voted for it and that maybe that wasn’t a tribute to him, but maybe it was….”

    JOURNALIST: “Can we get back to the plague, Mr. President. How many ventilators did you give Cuomo, and when are you sending them. He needs 140,000. The ones he put in the warehouse have too much dust on them, and don’t work anymore. You got them cheap from the Chinese, and they’re no good. Cuomo wants the ones manufactured in Germany.”

    I waited a long time, but I still don’t know how many corona cases in the hospital, on ventilators and not on ventilators anywhere in the United States, even in Rhode Island.. Oh, well, silly question that no reputable journalist would ever ask.

  122. @L.K

    I’ve never seen anyone kiss ass just for a “gold” star made out of pixels.

    • LOL: Johnny Rico
  123. @Chinaman

    The WHO is lead by a 3rd World Communist who fellates the godless heathen of the CCP.

    And don’t waste your time trying to chink-splain anything to me. I don’t believe anything you dog eaters have to say.

  124. @Pat Kittle

    It’s understandable, getting so fed up with Jew treachery we figure they’re all like that. Even Ron Unz.

    So Ron Unz giving his opinion is now Jew treachery? I swear if Ron Unz decided that a chicken sandwich was too spicy you guys would scream TYPICAL JEW.

    The “just a flu” crowd was completely wrong and that is really all there is to it. But you guys can’t man up and admit you were wrong. Instead you lash out at people like Ron and I that didn’t jump on the conspiracy bandwagon.

    The flu doesn’t take out 1/4 of ems workers.

    NYPD has 5600 officers out sick.

    This is not the flu.

    • Agree: L.K
    • Replies: @Pat Kittle
  125. @Anon

    “Herd immunity” is bunk. It might have made sense in the days of isolated communities but in today’s mass air transport era it’s rubbish. Either everyone is immune or those who aren’t will be at risk until and unless the disease causing agent is isolated and eliminated.

  126. @anastasia

    Still haven’t found out how many victims in hospitals, on ventilators, and not on ventilators in New York or in any other state, even Rhode Island.

    I found this in about 3 minutes:
    As of Friday afternoon, there were 5,250 hospitalizations in New York City due to coronavirus with 1,175 in the ICU, a 38 percent rise in ICU cases from Thursday night.
    https://nypost.com/2020/03/28/coronavirus-in-ny-citys-icu-bed-capacity-ranks-in-bottom-quarter-nationally/

  127. @DB Cooper

    This is true; India invaded and occupied the Tawang tract after unilaterally moving the British imposed border (not recognised by any Chinese government, Imperial, Nationalist or Communist) northwards to the Himalayas.

    • Replies: @DB Cooper
  128. @Tor597

    This attitude was fostered by the racist site VDare as proof that race is a real biological thing and its articles to that effect were lovingly posted here by Ron Unz.

  129. Spanky says:
    @ThreeCranes

    As far as consumer goods are concerned… American corporations aren’t going to complain about poor quality, Chinese or otherwise. As long as the merchandise is salable (looks good in the package) it’s early demise is considered a feature not a bug. The Chinese didn’t invent planned obsolescence or breakage, American corporations were practicing that long before moving factories there. As far as a retailer or contracting manufacturer is concerned shoddy goods often equate to additional sales which, needless to say, have a positive effect on their bottom line, not to mention GDP.

  130. DB Cooper says:
    @Fiendly Neighbourhood Terrorist

    It is not recognized by the international community either. Since 2009 South Tibet (which India renamed it to the so called Arunachal Pradesh and made it a state in 1987) is recognized by the United Nation as a disputed territory, making India the only country occupying two United Nation recognized disputed territories. The other being Kashmir.

    Here is a good read on the history of the Tawang tract:
    http://www.mainstreamweekly.net/article2582.html

  131. Spanky says:
    @Pat Kittle

    I can detect controlled opposition in picograms/liter. — Pat Kittle

    Then you know that there are many grams of it in the comments here at UR.

    • Replies: @Pat Kittle
  132. @tucsonSteve

    They knew about this virus long enough ahead of time to do the research and collect the clinical data to support a patent application.

    From where do you derive the date of January 21 for their application? The site you linked to is dated February 4.

    Still, this possible foreknowledge, with the implied culpability in having developed it themselves long before, is noteworthy and definitely deserves closer investigation. They did not specify the length of the trials that they referred to. Their publication is also documented here in English:

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41422-020-0282-0

    January 9, the date of the WHO report I quoted from above, coincides with the Chinese CDC report about the virus. Only on the next day was the genetic sequence of the COVID-19 virus made publicly available. The first diagnostic test kits did not become available until January 17.

    https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/novel-coronavirus/event-background-2019

    On 9 January 2020, the China CDC reported that a novel coronavirus (later named SARS-CoV-2, the virus causing COVID-19) had been detected as the causative agent for 15 of the 59 cases of pneumonia. On 10 January 2020, the first novel coronavirus genome sequence was made publicly available.

    Proper trials would have had to confirm that subjects were actually suffering from COVID-19 and not some other virus. So if they were able to do the confirmatory testing on January 17, under the presumption that trials were already in progress, and then filed their application on January 21, that leaves only four days for them to have compiled the information announcing beneficial outcomes, in which case they would no longer have tested positive.

    • Replies: @tucsonSteve
  133. @John Johnson

    Please read my entire (short) comment (#114) before you draw a 180° wrong conclusion.

  134. @BlackDragon

    Italy was infected deliberately, proof Italians had NO contact with China suddenly has a massive outbreak. Connect the dots. This was made in a lab.

    I presume almost everyone commenting here agrees that the virus was enhanced in a lab. This is no revelation to proclaim at this point; it has been known for weeks already, and I certainly haven’t claim otherwise, as you insinuated.

    China Southern Airlines had non-stop flights from Wuhan (a big city) to Rome and Milan. Tens of thousands Chinese live in Italy, especially in Prato near Florence. Milan even has a small Chinatown. Chinese tourists visit places like Venice too. So what do you mean by saying “NO contact“? That’s just ridiculous. The first reported case in Italy was on January 29, three days after the first reported cases in Germany. I have seen no reports about Italian athletes who attended the military games in Wuhan having gotten sick with the virus.

    If you have proof or even a strong suspicions that Italy was targeted deliberately then you should specify it because surely millions of Italians and others would be interested in knowing about it, yet you only provided a link to a story which didn’t even suggest what you claimed.

    • Replies: @Armaggedon
  135. @orionyx

    Good luck getting Americans to put down the Twinkies.

  136. tucsonSteve says: • Website
    @Been_there_done_that

    “…for the drug Radexivir that has not yet been marketed in China and has intellectual property barriers, we applied for Chinese invention patents on January 21 in accordance with international practice and from the perspective of protecting national interests….”

    With respect

  137. @JonArts

    Yes,lets all eat detergent.

  138. Tucker says:
    @SimplePseudonymicHandle

    The biggest concern I have with the idea of the US Government borrowing trillions of dollars from the (((bankers))) so they can give Americans who are laid off or who have lost their jobs due to this coronavirus pandemic a basic income to tide them over – is that, once this precedent has been set, it will be almost impossible to curtail it.

    How long will it take before the US Government declares that the pandemic is over? And, how long will the Americans who have grown accustomed to receiving free money checks be allowed to continue receiving those checks? Until they find a new job or return to their old job? What happens if a sizeable percentage of the population decide they’d rather not go back to work and are happy with getting those free money checks?

    This is a very hazardous road we are on the verge of taking this nation and we could easily wind up with a permanent unproductive parasite class who would become an enormous voting block who no politician would dare to oppose.

    Perhaps we might consider suspending the voting rights for people who refuse to pursue gainful employment once the pandemic has been declared over?

    • Replies: @Spanky
  139. @Spanky

    The numbers don’t reflect a pandemic any more serious than the flu.

    Anyone else notice that no one is dying for any other reason than corona chinese flu? It’s like all other diseases and pathogens are practicing social distancing too!

    Amazing how medical staffs also know it’s chinese flu when there’s still no widespread testing.

    Thank you citizen journalists, for filming empty hospitals where there’s alleged chaos.

    The truth will out.

    #coronahoax

    • Replies: @Spanky
  140. Hempus says:
    @onebornfree

    Most virologists believe only their “in vitro” reality where no immunity system exists. Their ideology is to create an artificial danger and virus fearing people to implement martial law to enforce compulsory execution to realize Bill Gates’s vaccination dreams.

    Its like when the chosen people create an artificial almighty god who spells the ten menaces on their enemies (which is just a fairy tale)….to become god fearing people.

    A few years ago Paul Craig Roberts was a prominent Nazi hunter who deserved at least the Simon Wiesenthal Nazi Hunter award. Its no wonder that he promotes such idelogies as the above article….to create virus fearing people….and an economy which is producing Masks, Respiratory Ventilators, and Virus Tests. All Nations turning into Gaza stripes prisons with bravely masks wearing people.

  141. Spanky says:
    @Tucker

    So you worry about the moral hazard of the working and middle classes receiving a government check, but bankers, hedge fund billionaires and corporate chieftains, whose organizations will receive many multiples of that largess from the Fed and Treasury, are immune. How thoughtful.

    How about we nationalize the dangerously irresponsible banks and corporations, whose moral hazard put us in this economic and financial predicament in the first place, and liquidate any hedge funds which require bailouts. Would that salve your conscience?

    Or does private profit and socialized losses for the financial class not offend your sensibilities?

    • Replies: @John Johnson
  142. Hypochlorous acid – HOCl is also a very effective disinfectant. Fairly weak acid, ph5.0 – 6.0. It can be used to disinfect masks, and safely sprayed on face and in the mouth to kill coronavirus if you feel like you’ve caught just the bug. I’d like to know if there are more sources than Briotech, which is currently super backlogged on orders.

  143. skrik says:
    @refl

    Most doctors – and I would certainly include this one – are bad doctors

    That may be more or less true, depending upon country [how far the MBA-disease has locally progressed, say] and individual ‘need for $s,’ BUT the big problem here is the politicians [none worse than Trump], and the policies these politicians are inflicting on their hapless electorates. Wathelet’s advice mostly agrees with:

    Coronavirus: The Hammer and the Dance
    What the Next 18 Months Can Look Like, if Leaders Buy Us Time”
    Tomas Pueyo
    Mar 19 · 29 min read

    Speed is of the utmost essence; the longer the Trumps (US) and Morrisons (Aus) of the world stupidly delay the best response [“Strong coronavirus measures today should only last a few weeks”], the more their countries will suffer. rgds

    PS Hammer-extract:

    [MORE]

    This article follows Coronavirus: Why You Must Act Now, with over 40 million views and 30 translations. If you agree with this article, consider signing the corresponding White House petition. Translations available in 27 languages at the bottom. Running list of endorsements here. 5 million views so far.

    Summary of the article: Strong coronavirus measures today should only last a few weeks, there shouldn’t be a big peak of infections afterwards, and it can all be done for a reasonable cost to society, saving millions of lives along the way. If we don’t take these measures, tens of millions will be infected, many will die, along with anybody else that requires intensive care, because the healthcare system will have collapsed.

    Within a week, countries around the world have gone from: “This coronavirus thing is not a big deal” to declaring the state of emergency. Yet many countries are still not doing much. Why?

    Every country is asking the same question: How should we respond? The answer is not obvious to them.

    Some countries, like France, Spain or Philippines, have since ordered heavy lockdowns. Others, like the US, UK, or Switzerland, have dragged their feet, hesitantly venturing into social distancing measures.

    Here’s what we’re going to cover today, again with lots of charts, data and models with plenty of sources:
    1.What’s the current situation?
    2.What options do we have?
    3.What’s the one thing that matters now: Time
    4.What does a good coronavirus strategy look like?
    5.How should we think about the economic and social impacts?

    When you’re done reading the article, this is what you’ll take away:

    Our healthcare system is already collapsing.
    Countries have two options: either they fight it hard now, or they will suffer a massive epidemic.
    If they choose the epidemic, hundreds of thousands will die. In some countries, millions.
    And that might not even eliminate further waves of infections.
    If we fight hard now, we will curb the deaths.
    We will relieve our healthcare system.
    We will prepare better.
    We will learn.
    The world has never learned as fast about anything, ever.
    And we need it, because we know so little about this virus.
    All of this will achieve something critical: Buy Us Time.

    If we choose to fight hard, the fight will be sudden, then gradual.
    We will be locked in for weeks, not months.
    Then, we will get more and more freedoms back.
    It might not be back to normal immediately.
    But it will be close, and eventually back to normal.
    And we can do all that while considering the rest of the economy too.

    Ok, let’s do this.

    • Replies: @refl
  144. @DB Cooper

    I know all about it. I’m Indian and I’ve read extensively and written an article on India’s culpability for the 1962 war with China.

  145. Anon[603] • Disclaimer says:
    @Chinaman

    I suspect you’d like to attempt a physical assault Chinaman, but I’m afraid it wouldn’t help the psychological wounds you obviously carry.

    All the racial hostility thrown at you…you are hellbent on throwing it back. I honestly can’t say I blame you, but there’s a higher road. You could take it.

  146. @Spanky

    I can detect controlled opposition in picograms/liter. — Pat Kittle

    Then you know that there are many grams of it in the comments here at UR.

    Agreed, it seems more hasbara trolls are showing up lately. And (((they)))’re trying harder to be subtle. Try as (((they))) will, (((their stench))) cannot be disguised.

  147. Malla says:
    @DB Cooper

    Of course he MSM never talks about the mistreatment of the Tibetans and Sikkimese by the Indians. It is not uncommon for the Indians to call the Tibetans names. If they thought they were Han Chinese, the Indians called them chinks. If they know they were Tibetans, the Indians called them momos (an ethnic slurs used by the Indians on the Tibetans in India).

    Jew MSM only cares about fake “White racism” against innocent, noble, vibrant darkies. (WTF does this “vibrant” shit mean anyways? I am a brown guy, a darky, does that make me “vibrant”, by default? Am I vibrating at some frequency? WTF)
    Anyways thanks to the coronavirus epidemic, we desis have new avenues to exercise our natural arrogance as well as our racist tendencies. But of course Jew MSM will NEVER bring it up much, ugly ass “vibrant” brown/ black people can neva be racist, didn’t chu know??

    Racism Amid COVID-19, North-Eastern Students from the NE State of Nagaland, Denied Entry In Mysore’s Supermarket.

    Mysore: City in Southern Indian State of Karnataka. A few days earlier, a woman from Manipur (state in the North East) was subjected to harassment by a man in Delhi.

    Anyways later, the store manager and the worker were arrested by the police for their discriminatory behaviour.

  148. Malla says:
    @DB Cooper

    Forget just Tibet, we screwed France too. The much famed biggest democracy in the World does not have an easy relationship with plebiscites and referendums. Not in Kashmir nor in a place called Pondicherry

    From Sir Alan Burns book

    “Moreover, in 1948 France agreed to let the inhabitants of her small possessions in India settle their own fate by a referendum and Chandan-Nagore went peacefully to India in this way. In other settlements other methods were employed. Forces favouring union with India seized the French Indian territory of Yanam on the 14th June, 1954, and a month later France gave up the French Indian territory of Mahe ‘to avoid grave incidents.’ In 1951 the elections in the territory of Pondicherry for the Representative Assembly returned a majority for the Socialist Party which advocated continued affiliation with France but Indians contended that the electoral victory was engineered and that the results did not truly represent popular will. Mr. Nehru then announced that as a plebiscite would be similarly conducted he could not agree to the fate of Pondicherry being settled in that fashion. As the French constitution forbids the the transfer of French territory without a referendum, deadlock would have ensued had not the Socialist Party changed its mind and advocated union with India.”

    • Replies: @Anon
  149. Alfred says:
    @Saggy

    Peak Prosperity

    I used to watch this doom porn. Now, I know that the more he scares people, the more money he and his partner make. So obvious. But he will never discuss who is behind it and how they intend to benefit. If he did, YouTube would get rid of him.

  150. @cortesar

    Skin in the game, social engineering at work.

    Whether you like it or not, there is what can be called a “surplus” population, of which but a tiny fraction is worth more in output then it absorbs on input energy. This surplus is a burden, since it cannot longer be turned upon itself without disrupting global complexity of transactions. War is obsolete as the ultimate provider of utility to the surplus. Them(the surplus population) being of no use, they will always produce less then the needs they require plus the damage to the environment and the quality of life of the elites, they must somhow be contained, and ultimately disappear. How this will work out, we do not suggest any venue-way, as much our elites are just improvising. They have no ready made plan, a lot is experimenting. Within daily reality this plays out in a more inconsequential chaotic society.

    [MORE]

    How big is this surplus population, and what does it consists of? As to total of the world population, some numbers suggest that fifteen percent of the existing global population count would amply suffice to provide all, production and services to the elites and lower the burden of containment and damage to the environment.

    It is evident, if discriminately within the population, people of plus sixty(a soft limit would be appropriate here) could be culled, that would make it even more interesting. So would it be to discriminately cull certain populations to a greater extend then others. Hence the promise of micro-biology, genetics, bio-weapons, chemical infusion in the food-stock, genetic manipulation of plants and live-stock. Migrations. Robotics. Veganism. Vegetarianism. And yes of all causes, mega-data analysis, to influence and sample the course of the experiment. All this at excess speed of the regular births versus mortality(numbers withheld, even a population count is no longer public data but with a “delay” and spread) of course. Imperative in any social engineering, the speed of reduction must not answer, but precede the course of adaptation. Just a suggestion: all historical models are of the charts adapt to the new reality!

    To shrink back to the current Coronavirus experiment, it is imperative to the readers to grasp real time what is going on in the background. The death count and other medical consequences(whether any or none) is irrelevant.

    We circumferentially based, state, that unz.com was given entry to mega-data games in exchange for collaborating in sustaining the first ever global experiment. It is quite thus explicable that when concerning “dead”, or “historical” issues are concerned, there is a contrarian stance present, and when concerning Corona(the now, the matter real-time), all regular scribes rally to the advert quality argumentation and the promoting fear side. Skin in the game… The unz.com is in tune as a player(agenda, interested), to ride out their audience to the crux, then the backtracking. With hindsight, when the experiment is an historical feat, to rebuild credibility by exploiting the “contrarian” side of the fairy-tale. So unz.com will be recycled, as much as is Corona!

    The comment is owned by unz.com

  151. @anastasia

    Almost entirely agree. Very good comment, but they are not advertising the age ratio of fatal and serious cases. They are in fact burying it at every opportunity and giving the illusion that we are equally susceptible.

    They do this by cherry-picking cases of younger people dying, mentioning the age ratio very far down in an article (as with anything else they’re trying to bury), blatant sophistry with the numbers, and of course not mentioning it at all.

    • Replies: @PetrOldSack
  152. @Been_there_done_that

    “The first reported case in Italy was on January 29,”

    Wrong, there were cases as soon as October 2019. They were diagnosed as “acute pulmonary syndrom”. And such a case is also reported in Switzerland in September 2019.

  153. Turks turned out to be frauds … who would have thunk it? Never trust a Muslim!

  154. @DB Cooper

    Tibet doesn’t belong to India, America and certainly not to China. Let Tibet be independent and sovereign country free of all outsiders. Down with China and long live Tibet!

    • Agree: Malla
  155. Anonymous[130] • Disclaimer says:

    No one has mentioned Brexit since this crisis started, except to demand that the British government suspend it indefinitely. I somewhat doubt it will or even can happen now, this crisis is shifting mainstream opinion in Britain significantly in favour of regional/international co-operation I think.

  156. @Alfred

    “The wealth of China…”

    Is that some kind of a joke? If it wasn’t for America opening its doors, China would be still be starving and besides, the Tibetans do NOT want their sublime land to become a home of tchotchkes and kitschy stuff. Let the gaudy Chinese make that shit!

    • Replies: @Alfred
    , @Olivier1973
  157. @Marshall Lentini

    Going by circumferential evidence (the unz scribes all tow the line somehow, minus some retention and silence), the unz.com site is in on to the agenda. Winning twice, now …and later taking a contrarian stance when this “crises” is history. It is of course a way of capitalizing finally on the zine effort. Skin in the game defines the agenda.

  158. anastasia says:
    @dogbumbreath

    It’s the old 19th and early 20th Century fight between Louis Pasteur v. Antoine Bechamp.

  159. anastasia says:
    @Armaggedon

    Yeah, the regular flu (830,000 hospitalized for flu in US in 2018) disappeared so as to politely step aside for Corona Virus.

  160. @Armaggedon

    …there were cases as soon as October 2019. They were diagnosed as “acute pulmonary syndrom”.

    This phenomenon, for which there are various causes, and its corresponding diagnosis has existed for a long time. What compelling evidence, if any, can you present that the conditions of these two people you mentioned were caused by COVID-19? You appear to be jumping to conclusions based on wishful thinking.

  161. anon[192] • Disclaimer says:

    2 choices:

    1. be prepared to keep the borders closed, forgo all your privacy, loose cash money, destroy your economy, give up all your rights to the governments. for the duration of about 2 years until a vaccine comes along.

    2. let it burn through the population slowly taking out some weak and old. keep your rights and economy, open your borders without fear because 1 infected traveler needs no lockdown.

    There is no way the entire world is going to control the spread of the virus. East-Asia? yes, Europe and the states? they could. Latin America, middle-east and Africa? no way in hell. So why bother?

  162. skrik says:

    I suspect that none of the “it’s only a [normal] flu!” mob is anywhere near over 65?

    My father had a message suitable for such utterly selfish sociopathic types:

    “I’m OK, Jack – pull the ladder up!”

    After we’d heard it a few times, he only had to look any offender in the eye and say: “Jack!?”

    So we can term the “it’s only a [normal] flu!” mob “Jacksters!” rgds

    • Replies: @Alfred
    , @Sick of Orcs
  163. DB Cooper says:
    @Really No Shit

    Tibetans in China certainly disagree with you. Even the CIA monk the Dalai Liar has changed tune and said Tibet is part of China.

    If you are here in unz.com that shows me at least you have some skeptism on the MSM bs. And on this make up Tibet issue (the thing started when the British still have an empire in South Asia and want to grab China’s Tibetan area) you are sprewing the same bs narrative of the MSM.

    • Replies: @Really No Shit
  164. @Spanky

    How about we nationalize the dangerously irresponsible banks and corporations, whose moral hazard put us in this economic and financial predicament in the first place

    This is what we should have done in the last crash.

    If a bank goes under then nationalize it.

    There is no law that says banks must serve shareholders or Wall St.

    In fact we already have credit unions which are non-profit.

  165. @BlackDragon

    You’re citing VT, the reptilian hunters, Area 51 detectives and alien chasers. Check out Duff’s Mars vacation brochure…

  166. @DB Cooper

    When I see chinamen, be they from Hubei, Fujian, Canton or Formosa, they all look Chinese but a Tibetan doesn’t look like a chinaman and their language is totally different from the orientals. You bullied Tibet into being a province of China citing some vague political doctrine from centuries past and the cowards in India, Japan, America and Europe kept quite but a time is coming when the Han China itself may be vulnerable. Payback is gonna be a real bitch!

    • Replies: @DB Cooper
  167. botazefa says:
    @cortesar

    More female hysteria, but I am repeating myself

    Too bad the video is selectively edited so we can’t see what that kid did to upset the lady.

  168. DB Cooper says:
    @Really No Shit

    “When I see chinamen, be they from Hubei, Fujian, Canton or Formosa, they all look Chinese but a Tibetan doesn’t look like a chinaman”

    Thats just expose you don’t know much about the Tibetans. If it is that easy to tell Tibetans in India won’t get beat up so often just because the Indians thought they were Han Chinese. I can assure you even the Han Chinese can’t neccesarily pick out a Tibetans from a crowd.

    Don’t be silly. You don’t care about the Tibetans. If you do the British won’t grabed their land and mowed them down by machine guns by the hundreds. Ever heard of Colonel Younghusband? It is disgusting to see people who style themselves as advocates of the welfare of the Tibetans are themselves the one who screwed the Tibetans.

    Yes Payback is a bitch. I hope so!

    • Replies: @Really No Shit
  169. You can’t know the mortality rate if you don’t know the total number of cases.

    Mortality rate = X% of (unknown number of cases). You can’t assign a numeric value to X.

    What they’ve been doing is basing the morality rate only on the small number of cases that they know about. So of course, the mortality rate is astronomical.

    Two examples:

    2000 deaths out of 50,000 known cases = 4% mortality rate (Everybody panic!).

    2000 deaths out of 20,000,000 cases (most unknown as of now) = 0.01% morality rate (negligible).

    They’re not even trying to find out the true number of cases (infections). They’re telling asymptomatic people who might have been infected not to get tested. People who have been infected, had some symptoms, and then felt better do not show up as having been infected when they take the test.

    How can people not see that an outrageous hoax is being perpetrated on the American people?

    Why aren’t professors, doctors and statisticians not shouting this information from the rooftops?

    Why should anyone ever again trust the “experts”?

  170. botazefa says:
    @anastasia

    I waited a long time, but I still don’t know how many corona cases in the hospital, on ventilators and not on ventilators anywhere in the United States, even in Rhode Island.. Oh, well, silly question that no reputable journalist would ever ask.

    Have you considered calling the hospital and asking what the “census” is? Pretty sure that info is what is needed. Too bad all the ‘journalists’ are bought and paid for, unable to do basic investigations.

    I can’t believe I fell for all that ‘freedom of the press’ stuff. Rather than a constitutional balancing lever, the press is just a tool of whoever pays the salaries of the journalists – CIA, Koch brothers, Bezos, whoever.

    I’ve been so gullible

  171. Alden says:

    What a load; just looked at Los Angeles county.

    More than 8 million people. Lots of rich people who skied and traveled. Lots of Asians and Persians who travel home often. Lots of homeless. Lots of laid off construction workers trying to do handyman jobs, putting up flyers and getting on the internet, going to peoples houses for bids, then going to the lumber yard and Home Depot and in and out of the house for the remodeling etc etc etc.

    LA county should be totally plague ridden. But it’s not.

    Here’s the latest stats LA county 2,500 confirmed cases 300 bad enough to be hospitalized, 44 deaths.

    The sky is falling, the sky is falling. University of Ca state unis & community colleges have issued a strict order forbidding the words Chinese Wuhan or Asian virus. Plus rebuke and report anyone who uses those words. F’em.

    Another topi . If you can avoid it, don’t fall for a mortgage modification. They want the complete rollover to 30 years with all sorts of fees. Do you want to be stuck with a mortgage with 15 years to go when you’re 65? Read the terms several times before getting into a mortgage modification.

    If you have a lot of monthly bills as most people have, it might be best to use your unemployment money to pay the monthly bills and preserve your credit rating and get the mortgage modification.

    Take care you all. It’s not just the Chinese virus. It’s whatever financial disaster TPTB plan.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  172. @Spanky

    Am constantly amazed that all the flu comparisons miss that one simple factor — time.

    And that so many people who are apparently intelligent enough to master at least basic literacy skills seem to be constitutionally incapable of grasping the simple, straightforward concept of “exponential growth.” 38,000 people have died? Nope, make that 45K as of today. Huh — what happened? I thought that number was forever fixed, and was simply not allowed to increase any further. Apparently Sick’s innumeracy is a much less potent anti-viral in the real world than it seems to him in his mental model of the disease…

    See also.

    • Replies: @Spanky
  173. Malla says:
    @Really No Shit

    Yup the best option for Tibet is complete independence. Of course Tibet is better with China today than being part of shithole India. Some decades back during the height of the Mao’s crazy days, it was the opposite. But Tibet is best if it is independent.
    And similarly Sikkim and the entire North Eastern region is best if they get independence from India. And the Chitagong Hill Tract region should get independence from Bangladesh.
    They do not deserves to be part of our South Asian shit hola, probably the most screwed up region in the world outside of Africa.

    • Replies: @Really No Shit
  174. Alfred says:
    @Really No Shit

    Let Tibet be independent and sovereign country free of all outsiders

    Like Ukraine, Georgia, Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, Japan, South Korea, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Colombia, South Africa, Australia and many others. 🙂

  175. @Chinaman

    these people should be physically assaulted for NOT wearing a mask in Asia like Asians are assaulted in the West for wearing one.

    lol

    This is rootless cosmopolitan-tier, “Watcha doin’, rabbi?”-style victimhood-claiming.

    There’s a reason why they call the Chinese “the jews of Asia” — and it’s not merely their shady business practices. This sort of fake “aggressive victim” act is a big part of it as well.

  176. Alfred says:
    @Really No Shit

    If it wasn’t for America opening its doors

    If your billionaires move jobs to China, it is not the fault of China. Get your own house in order.

    China had the largest economy in the world for centuries. In 10 years or so, Shanghai will be the financial capital of the world. Unavoidable. Get used to it. It was London until 1914 and Amsterdam before that. India is out of the game because they have a crap democracy.

    • Replies: @Spanky
    , @Really No Shit
  177. Alfred says:
    @skrik

    I suspect that none of the “it’s only a [normal] flu!” mob is anywhere near over 65?

    Wrong. I am 69. I believe that young people are the future. It has always been so. Nothing has changed in that respect.

    The old ones cannot survive without the support of the young. By deluding yourself into “saving the old”, you are destroying the young which will inevitably lead to the loss of the old as well.

    • Replies: @skrik
  178. skrik says:
    @Alfred

    Kindly read my “hammer” post. rgds

    • Replies: @Alfred
  179. I have proposed four methods to recycle them and they must be implemented according to the sterilization equipment available in hospitals, information that I have still not been able to obtain.

    At the hospital level, ethylene oxide or vaporized hydrogen peroxide probably make the most sense.

    According to these Stanford anesthesiologists, a smaller scale method that works fairly well is 30 minutes in an (electric) oven at 158F/ 70C. Supposed to do a reasonable job of disinfection with minimal degradation of filtration efficiency (link also has a good comparison of filtration efficiency of various homemade masks).

    Much better than alcohol, bleach, or microwave (all degrade filtration efficiency — microwave tends to melt filter material).

    They also state that exposure to vapor from boiling water for 10 minutes works reasonably well, but they don’t give any specifics about the method (how far from the water, etc.).

    Using a home oven for this carries some risk of cross contamination, of course — so use at your own risk.

  180. Ron Unz says:
    @Alden

    What a load; just looked at Los Angeles county.

    More than 8 million people….

    LA county should be totally plague ridden. But it’s not.

    Here’s the latest stats LA county 2,500 confirmed cases 300 bad enough to be hospitalized, 44 deaths.

    Well, naturally. California in general and even including Los Angeles really dodged the bullet. This is an exponential process so that delaying a response by even just a week or more can make a *gigantic* difference:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/the-government-employee-who-may-have-saved-a-million-american-lives/

    For example, a careful look at the data suggests that the per capita infection rate in New York is now 20x greater than in California, and growing rapidly. A factor of 20!

    A month ago, Santa Clara County was a national epicenter of the outbreak. Yet a government report that came out a few days ago estimated only 2000 eventual deaths among the population of 2M. An outcome like that would be considered tremendous in the U.S., but I actually think it’s extremely *pessimistic* and I’m hoping SC escapes with just a few hundred deaths by early summer.

    LA is a little more difficult to estimate, but maybe 1500-2000 deaths may be doable, with perhaps a few thousand or less for the entire state of 40M.

    Meanwhile, I think New York will be lucky to avoid at least 100K deaths by early summer.

    And I’d argue that the single greatest national hero of the current epidemic is Santa Clara County Public Health Officer Dr. Sarah Cody, a perfectly competent and courageous local government official…and like you, a Stanford grad!

    https://www.unz.com/runz/the-government-employee-who-may-have-saved-a-million-american-lives/

    • Replies: @Spanky
    , @Alden
  181. Spanky says:
    @James Forrestal

    Exactly.

    Perhaps this spreadsheet will help demonstrate exponential spread… Doubling time looks to be about 4-5 days at this point.

    https://covidtracking.com/data/us-daily

    • Replies: @James Forrestal
  182. @DB Cooper

    Indians are ignorant about the orientals because they can’t tell the difference between one slanty-eyed from another, so they lump the hapless sons of Tibet with the Chinese.

    As to one chinaman not being able to discern one of his fellow Han then that’s out of ignorance as well…

    What happened in dark centuries doesn’t matter but in 21st century, China should know better. And let’s not have a pissing contest about the “payback” for time will prove you wrong just as the wrongheaded policies of the communist China.

    • Replies: @DB Cooper
  183. Spanky says:
    @Ron Unz

    This is a damned if you do and damned if you don’t dilemma…

    If you quarantine aggressively, and few die, everyone complains about the quarantine’s effect on the economy because the virus’s effects did not appear to be as bad as advertised.

    If you don’t quarantine effectively, and a worst case comes to pass, they all want to hang you.

    The former is more appealing than the latter — at least you don’t have to visit graveyards to hear the wailing.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  184. L.K says:

    On March 10th, Joe Rogan interviewed Michael Osterholm:

    Michael Osterholm is an internationally recognized expert in infectious disease epidemiology. He is Regents Professor, McKnight Presidential Endowed Chair in Public Health, the director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy (CIDRAP), Distinguished Teaching Professor in the Division of Environmental Health Sciences, School of Public Health, a professor in the Technological Leadership Institute, College of Science and Engineering, and an adjunct professor in the Medical School, all at the University of Minnesota. Look for his book “Deadliest Enemy: Our War Against Deadly Germs”

    What does the man have to say about this virus, is it just like the Flu? NO.
    He says Covid-19 could be 10-15 X worse than the worse seasonal flu…

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  185. @Chinaman

    these people should be physically assaulted for NOT wearing a mask in Asia like Asians are assaulted in the West for wearing one.

    Were you educated at an American university or something? You seemed to have acquired the Jew Supremacist skill for making outrageous claims to ethnic victimhood. So rude, stupid, irritating. Yellow Supremacist drivel.

  186. Ron Unz says:
    @Spanky

    This is a damned if you do and damned if you don’t dilemma…

    If you quarantine aggressively, and few die, everyone complains about the quarantine’s effect on the economy because the virus’s effects did not appear to be as bad as advertised.

    Well, that’s the “silver lining” of the ongoing catastrophe in New York and elsewhere…

    The lockdown in California is certainly hurting businesses and employment and having exactly the sort of negative effects you’d expect. And if the resulting deaths were fairly small, lots of people would get angry and criticize the decision. There might also be a great deal of public pressure to end the lockdown too soon.

    But then people see the situation in New York, with probably many tens of thousands of deaths perhaps amid scenes from Dante’s Inferno. Under such circumstances, I doubt there will be much second-guessing, nor demands to quickly lift the lockdown too soon…

    • Replies: @Spanky
  187. Ron Unz says:
    @L.K

    What does the man have to say about this virus, is it just like the Flu? NO.
    He says Covid-19 could be 10-15 X worse than the worse seasonal flu…

    I’d say that’s actually a considerable under-estimate…

    We have flu vaccines, so only a fraction of the population gets it, many of them because they avoided their shot.

    According to all estimates, the Coronavirus death rate under good conditions is 1%, with some recent estimates from South Korea suggesting the longest term figure might be 1.5+%. So it’s indeed 10-15x more deadly than the regular flu.

    But once the health care system gets overloaded and crashes, deaths probably spike to more like 5%, 50x that of the flu.

    For example, the medical experts suggested that without strong government action, there might be something like a million California deaths within the next couple of months.

  188. Spanky says:
    @Alfred

    In 10 years or so, Shanghai will be the financial capital of the world. Unavoidable. Get used to it. It was London until 1914 and Amsterdam before that. — Alfred

    And Spain before that… As a result of all the gold their conquistadores stole and sent back from South and Central America.

    In Wealth and Democracy, Kevin Phillips ably documents this progression.

    Funny how when “capitalism” reaches a certain point, after development of middle and working classes based on relatively high wages, the owners of productive enterprises realize they can increase profits by simply moving their operations to a lower wage country — wage arbitrage. It’s one of the first steps in financializing a (formerly) productive economy.

    We’re watching the latter stages of this cycle play out in real time here in the USA…

  189. Spanky says:
    @Ron Unz

    Under such circumstances, I doubt there will be much second-guessing, nor demands to quickly lift the lockdown too soon… — Ron Unz

    Unless, of course, they are commenters at UR… ;>)

    • LOL: Ron Unz
  190. L.K says:

    But once the health care system gets overloaded and crashes, deaths probably spike to more like 5%, 50x that of the flu.

    And this is key to understand this thing IMHO.
    ICUs are not set up for the sake of Covid-19, so once they are overwhelmed a lot of people who will need it because of other illnesses, accidents and what not, would end up losing their lives too…

    I don’t think this is too hard to understand, but around here it seems like running head first against a brick wall…

    • Agree: Spanky
  191. L.K says:

    The following video is quite interesting and I found it recommended by a Belgian critical care physician.

    Manu Malbrain: Internist and critical care physician, ICU Director, University Hospital Brussels, Professor Faculty of Medicine.

    Please share: We need to bend the curve. Must see video that helps to explain if we are beating #COVID19 #COVID19BE well

    • Replies: @refl
  192. I think that Italy has peaked, their new infections have dropped most of people too immuno-compromised have died, there’s hope I cannot imagine 100-240K dying in America because it hasn’t happened in China and everybody in their own small way is practicing some sort of social distancing whether enforced or not, I think that Trump’s completely sandbagging the figures by telling a ridiculous amount of people in the US are going to die it went from millions to max 240K and again I cannot see that happening , I think that it won’t happen and Trump’ll declare a ‘Tremendous Victory’ over the ‘Chinese Virus’. But it could easily go the other way an exponential explosion and the Virus could really go ‘Viral.’ My mind just refuses to believe that the world would go full ‘Walking Dead’ in a year but who knows. If I was religious I would pray but I’m not so, the sum total of all fears just might happen but I just don’t think that it will happen but then the Dinosaurs were Chilling for tens of millions of years before that Meteorite struck.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  193. Alfred says:
    @skrik

    Thank you. I glanced at it. I am really tired. I don’t want to read any more doom porn. Sorry. My respects. It will all be over in 4 weeks. We will be wondering how we were fooled once again.

  194. refl says:
    @skrik

    Within a week, countries around the world have gone from: “This coronavirus thing is not a big deal” to declaring the state of emergency. Yet many countries are still not doing much. Why?

    Every country is asking the same question: How should we respond? The answer is not obvious to them.

    Some countries, like France, Spain or Philippines, have since ordered heavy lockdowns. Others, like the US, UK, or Switzerland, have dragged their feet, hesitantly venturing into social distancing measures

    This reads like a primer to the Shock doctrine. Anyone, who has seen the reaction to 9/11 or the financial crisis of 2008-following won’t be fooled.

    In fact, politicians are selected among such a corrupt and weak lot that they keep reacting predictably always in the same fashion.

    I will leave the estimate of how corona is dangerous or not to the medical experts, where a reasonable number differs substantially from the alarmists. They have the more convincing narrative on offer and they are drowned out in the media. Add in some logic and life experience, and there I am.

    And again:

    Perspectives on the Pandemic | Dr John Ioannidis of Stanford University | Interview

  195. @Really No Shit

    If it wasn’t for America opening its doors, China would be still be starving and besides,

    And if so… why did you open your doors?

    Because you are greedy, while the Chinese are clever.

    • Replies: @Really No Shit
  196. refl says:
    @L.K

    L.K. you are an intelligent person, so would you just compare the way that guy in your video speaks to Dr Ioannidis, whose video I am linking here ad nauseam, because Ron Unz won’t do it?

    And at the end, your guy links to John Hopkins University, who are in up to the waist on this manufactured hysteria psyop. He tops it off by recomending their stuff as learning materials for the pupils who are out of school now. Certainly, their stuff is technically first rate, but the intention to brainwash the next generation into believing even crazier BS then our current generation does is obvious.

    Calm down and take off that silly mask!

  197. @Olivier1973

    Because white Christian race is the trusting kind and it trusted its leadership, which is not all that god-fearing, Jesus believing type. So that’s how the doors were pried open to prosperity … does Henry “I know it all” Kissinger ring bell?

    And yes, the Chinese are too clever by half!

  198. @Alfred

    You know how to read stats and charts but you don’t know jack about the Anglo-American mindset which could be costly.

    Btw, Coronavirus is going to be the game changer… there are demands by Americans to shut down not only Chinese supply lines going forward but the traitorous oligarchy that beefed up China in the fisrt place. Wait and see how painful it’s going to be for the “factory” of the world!

    • Replies: @Alfred
  199. Alden says:
    @Ron Unz

    There was the 1906 bubonic plague outbreak. I believe there are emergency powers given to governor Mayors public health agencies from that epidemic that made it possible to crack down so quickly.

    Plus, our earthquakes, floods and wild fires happen so often we’re always prepared for anything. From Kindergarten on, every year, we get earthquake preparation classes.

  200. Ron Unz says:
    @Grahamsno(G64)

    think that Italy has peaked, their new infections have dropped most of people too immuno-compromised have died

    Actually, there are some plausible arguments that Italian Coronavirus deaths have been many times higher than reported. That’s because when somebody dies outside of the hospital, the medical authorities are too preoccupied to bother testing the corpse for Coronavirus.

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/corona-deaths-in-italy-5x-higher-than-official-numbers/

    I cannot imagine 100-240K dying in America

    Well, maybe you can’t but the Coronavirus can imagine those numbers, and its opinion is more important.

    because it hasn’t happened in China

    Well, China did shut down its entire economy and lockdown 700 million Chinese. Maybe that had something to do with it.

    • Replies: @Alfred
    , @James Forrestal
  201. @Malla

    There should be a confederation of the seven or so original Buddhist monarchies in the Himalayas led by the biggest of them all, Tibet. And as long as they do not side either with India or China they should be left alone to be as backward as they wish to be. You may be right about India being a backward country or a shithole if you prefer, but just because China has built up fast infrastructure in the last three decades doesn’t make it a fisrt world country; it’s the mindset. China, for all its pomp and circumstance, is still a shithole with fancy toilets. Perhaps in another millennium China can be a Japan. But forget about India for so long as the Hindoo subcontinent is riddled with Islam, it will remain a broken toilet till the kingdom comes!

    • Replies: @DB Cooper
    , @Malla
  202. @refl

    Agree, the answers are found in the Protocols of Zion and in the book The Controversy of Zion by Douglas Reed.

    This is similar to the joint zionist Israeli and ZUS attack on the WTC, only this time the zionists are using this scam to make us prisoners in our on houses, and they have accomplished something which until they got away with 911, I would never have thought possible in America, we are a nation of sheep.

    There is an old joke about a school teacher who asks a student if there are 10 sheep in a corral and one gets out , how many are left and the student says 0, the teacher says that is wrong the correct answer is 9, the student said you don’t know your sheep. The zionist know their sheep!

  203. @cranc

    And we are supposed to listen to you because you are a virologist and you know so fucking much about how virology and epidemiology works?

    If this guy is right, many of the deaths of our countrymen will be due to people who have the mentality that you do. That you are so much smarter than every one else, even though you have zero expertise in something as critical as this, and that you know what is best for us all.

    Yes maybe you do have a point that many of these people would have died anyway. Eventually. But not this month, or next, or the next, or maybe not this year or the next. Maybe some would have lived ten years. There will be no way whatsoever to ever calculate the years of life lost. Yet the years of life lost don’t seem important to you.

    I am 70 years old. No serious commorbidities. I would normally have a life expectancy till 83. If I get the virus even if I don’t die quickly, of which I may have a 30% of doing, I will most likely have a significant loss of life expectancy and significant loss of enjoyment of what life I have left. And the same goes for my wife who is 65. And I worry about my kids, their families and friends, and particularly my grand kids getting this as well. They are not immune and some people lose even when odds are in their favor.

    And you appear to have zero empathy for the health care workers on the front lines who we have not equipped to fight this battle.

    All in the name of the fucking economy. The fucking economy. The almighty dollar.

    • Agree: Spanky
  204. DB Cooper says:
    @Really No Shit

    Communist China is your best friend dumb ass. It is under the Communist China watch that South Tibet was invaded and annexed by your land grabbing shithole country India. Have a cup of cow piss you filthy dirty ugly rapey stinky 75 IQ open defecating Indian.

    • Replies: @Really No Shit
  205. @refl

    I really like Ioannidis a lot. I cited this article shortly after it came out. But he is certainly hedging his bets, and at the end of the day, he admits he does not know what the outcome of this pandemic will be either. There probably will be a much lower death rate, but with no immunity some experts say we may have 70% of the world infected. It doesn’t take much of an infection rate to kill many millions of people if four or five billion people get the virus.

    But if you really cram down the infection rate, with the measures this virologist says the world should take, and which so far seem to have worked in Asia, maybe we don’t have the death rate go to the many millions of people range.

  206. DB Cooper says:
    @Really No Shit

    Don’t blame on Islam. The Taj is a product of Islamic culture. Nobody wants to be part of India and this is why the Kashmiris are so pissed at India. India is a shithole because of people like you.

    Free Kashmir

    • Replies: @Really No Shit
    , @Malla
  207. orionyx says:
    @Negrolphin Pool

    Thanks for enlightening me on herd immunity, which I did not reference at all in my original post. I spoke of individual immunity, and perhaps you can apply your vast intellect to addressing the points i made.

  208. Anonymous[603] • Disclaimer says:
    @Really No Shit

    Westerners who blather on in faux horror about Chinese behaviour in Tibet or Uyghurs are almost (but not quite) as pathetic as the Chinese/pajeet immigrants who disingenuously pretend they care about American Indians.

    It’s transparently self-serving, contemptible, vapid bullshit of the most shameless kind.

    The West will happily bomb and destroy entire Muslim nations without losing a wink of sleep. No matter what is happening in China, we’ve forfeited our right to chime in on the issue.

    I’ll make an exception for whites who are Buddhists. They probably actually do care about the fate of Tibet.

  209. @DB Cooper

    Barking at the wrong tree … how typical of a loser! Just look in the mirror: you’ll find the ugliest race in the world. So long panda!

  210. @DB Cooper

    No, I blame the yellow rats in New York city for spreading the Chinese virus. Now get hold off yourself, there panda boy!

  211. ivan says:
    @Been_there_done_that

    Based on these revelations, Chinese authorities had an immediate duty to ban all outgoing flights from the Wuhan airport in order to curtail the spreading of the virus to other regions…..

    It is worse than that sir, they actually threatened countries like Singapore with “dire consequences” ( in their usual passive-aggressive way ) for suspending flights from Wuhan and China more generally. Anyone with two cents for a brain, can see the timeline and concur with the truth of what you have to say.

  212. ivan says:
    @Levtraro

    Well that is one way of looking it. I would have thought social distancing would actually produce hardier strains of the virus as the “incubators” would coevolve the hardier strains while strengthening the collective memory of their T4 cells. only to unleash them later when social distancing is relaxed on those whose immune systems were not so conditioned, unknowingly of course. But what you say also makes sense.

  213. Anonymous[603] • Disclaimer says:
    @davidgmillsatty

    It’s trite to label people who are concerned about the economy as shallow greed heads only concerned about a filthy buck. It’s a very childish, sanctimonious attitude.

    The entire economy is extremely teetery as is. It not just a matter of greedy people wanting to roll around in a bathtub full of dollar bills. You are off base.

    The businesses destroyed will inject real hardship and pain. Those CoronaBux the central banks are so happy to provide everyone *will need to be paid back*…with interest. It won’t be you and I who are living as debt slaves for generations, trying to dig out from the monstrous ball and chin our predecessors left us with. There are rumblings now of an economic calamity like the Great Depression, or even worse coming down the pipes. This is not an issue of being nasty to the elderly.. pretty much everyone is in agreement that they should be the priority…that they should receive special care and attention as needed. Nobody is throwing them to the wolves for a fast buck, its just not the case.

    • Replies: @davidgmillsatty
  214. Malla says:
    @DB Cooper

    Don’t blame on Islam.

    Now now all religions and cultures have their positive elements and negative elements. And yes it is true it is the negative elements of BOTH Hinduism and Islam which are screwing up the subcontinent. Both the religions have their positive sides too (Philosophy, Justice/Sharia, traditional exercises, meditation, Yoga etc…). But the subcontinent is screwed up racially to begin with, I think all that Australoid Jungle DNA and the jungle tendencies of the masses could not be drowned out by the Caucasoid (or little Mongoloid) side. You just got semi-Australoids with higher IQ and organisational abilities thanks to the Caucasoid (& 10-15% Mongoloid) DNA inflow. You could spread Confucianism or Shinto here, that will not turn the subcontinent into a Taiwan or Japan. You could spread Lutheranism here and make India/Pakistan/Bangladesh combined, a Lutheran superpower, it ain’t becoming a Germany in quality of life.

  215. Malla says:
    @Really No Shit

    There should be a confederation of the seven or so original Buddhist monarchies in the Himalayas led by the biggest of them all, Tibet. And as long as they do not side either with India or China they should be left alone to be as backward as they wish to be.

    Agree. That would be the best outcome.

  216. @Malla

    That is also why South East Asia and Middle East and Central/South America (just like Indian subcontinent) are screwed too, in the long run. Black Africa & Papua New Guinea? Lets not even talk about it.

  217. refl says:
    @davidgmillsatty

    All in the name of the fucking economy. The fucking economy. The almighty dollar.

    Ok, you have a personal concern and I would recommend you to distance yourself to the extend you judge necessary, just as the elderly should in any flu season.

    However, you need to know what the economy is: It is not the dollar printers, as they can pull the levers back and forth any time.
    The economy is the shop owner and the small buisness man around the corner. It is the self employed, who have no retirement benefits, in the US not even a health insurance, possibly. It is people who know that by years end they need a black zero on their balance sheet. It is people who on top of that are reponsible for a small number of employees and thus their families.
    Now the new month has started, which means that regular payments were due just yesterday, like rents, insurance payments and credit rates. This means that the weakest among them are going bust at this very moment. Government aids have been promised, but if you still believe that the government is their to help you – ok.

    I fear that the real death toll will be a pandemic of suicides.

    • Replies: @davidgmillsatty
  218. @Malla

    I am indifferent to the Hindoos but I have an intense dislike for the Muslims, especially the Arabs, and I don’t have a dog in the fight as it pertains to the Subcontinent.

    And just as Islam isn’t welcomed in the West, I see that it isn’t welcomed in the East … may be it’s best suited to the beastly Arabs but not to the namby pamby Bengalees.

    What’s your solution?

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Malla
  219. Malla says:
    @Really No Shit

    What’s your solution?

    Why work on it when the Hindu fundamantalist behind the Indian Government are working on this right now? Just sit back and enjoy the show.

    • Replies: @Really No Shit
  220. @davidgmillsatty

    And, surprisingly, the Boomer says, “It’s all about me.”

    The constant refrain of the Boomer is that they are all that matters.

    And they wonder why they are despised.

    • Replies: @davidgmillsatty
  221. @anastasia

    Still haven’t found out how many victims in hospitals, on ventilators, and not on ventilators in New York or in any other state, even Rhode Island.

    There’s this thing called “teh interwebz.” You can find stuff on it using a “search engine.”

    RI Dept of Health COVID-19 stats

    Their Twitter.

    This page has decent links for state-by-state data.

    This one is a good overview for state-by-state data on cases and deaths, but is hit-or-miss on critical cases, and doesn’t track total hospitalizations.

  222. Alfred says:
    @Really No Shit

    You know how to read stats and charts but you don’t know jack about the Anglo-American mindset which could be costly.

    Thank you. I am sure you are correct. 🙂

    Wait and see how painful it’s going to be for the “factory” of the world!

    The Chinese and their society are a heck of a lot more resilient than the Americans. If the American society does not unravel this summer, I would be somewhat surprised.

    Martin Armstrong has consistently predicted 2032 as the date when the world’s financial capital will be Shanghai. I will possibly not be alive by then. He does not look all the young either.

  223. Alfred says:
    @Ron Unz

    That’s because when somebody dies outside of the hospital, the medical authorities are too preoccupied to bother testing the corpse for Coronavirus.

    Assumptions:

    1- The test works only for COVID-19. In reality, it is triggered by any one of the hundreds of coronaviruses.

    2- The test does not measure viral load. That means that the coronavirus present might be insignificant strands which had no effect on the health of the deceased.

    3- People don’t die from causes other than coronavirus if any of the hundreds of versions of these viruses are found on the deceased.

    I find it hard to believe that you write excellent computer programs. 🙂

    • Replies: @Felix Culpa
  224. Alfred says:

    Here is the latest morbidity data for Europe up to April 01, 2020.

    Please use this data in this discussion and not the news from CNN, Daily Mail and the Financial Times. Thank you.

    1- There has been an increase in deaths of those 65+ in Italy – but the same level happened 3 years ago and there was not great fuss made.

    2- There has been no increase in deaths of those 15-64 in Italy

    3- The results for Spain are almost the same as those for Italy for both age groups

    Individual z-scores (15-64)

    Individual z-scores (>=65)

    • Replies: @Desert Fox
  225. @Spanky

    Doubling time looks to be about 4-5 days at this point.

    Yeah, if that trend holds. It was under 3 days until fairly recently, so that’s actually a significant improvement:

    Cases are something of a soft number because they reflect relative intensity of testing as well as true growth in cases. Hospitalizations have more lag (about 10 days from exposure, including both average incubation period and time from illness onset to hospitalization), but are a more solid number. As are deaths, of course (with about a 3 week lag from time of infection).

    ICU admissions run about 5% of cases (except for Italy), and total hospitalizations around 15-20%.

    Current doubling time for hospitalizations looks to be about 4 days from your link. For deaths, it’s still a constant slope on a log-linear scale at much closer to a 3 day doubling time.

    • Thanks: Spanky
  226. @Alfred

    Listen to David Ickes interviews on coronavirus at davidicke.com, he has the answers to the kabals psyop.

  227. @Malla

    Do you disapprove of the Moody government?

    • Replies: @Malla
  228. @Ron Unz

    because it hasn’t happened in China

    Well, China did shut down its entire economy and lockdown 700 million Chinese. Maybe that had something to do with it.

    “We really should hit the brakes if we don’t want to run into that brick wall at 80 mph”

    “Why? Everyone knows that cars stop on their own! It’s like a bell curve or something.”

    >Brake hard, skid to a stop, ding fender but no serious injuries to anyone in car…

    “See, I TOLD you that whole ‘kinetic energy’ thing was all just a big fake hoax!”

  229. @Anonymous

    I am not minimizing at all the pain that is going to be caused by this catastrophe. It is likely to be bad. And poverty is a real killer. But it is the greed that got us here because the greedy would not heed what the medical experts were saying or would not follow Asia’s lead in how to combat an epidemic. Lockdown and wearing masks are the solution to an epidemic. If you do both, in the long run the economy will be better off. But we did not listen or follow Asia’s lead.

    The way I view this today is a bit different than before. What the doctor is essentially saying is that we had a public sanitation breakdown, which caused a healthcare crisis, which in turned rippled throughout the entire economy. It was greed that made people refuse to listen.

    Failure of businesses to properly sanitize their premises is a huge problem and has been a driver of this contagion. Failure of people to properly sanitize themselves is a huge problem has been a huge driver of this contagion. Governments didn’t properly sanitize either. Our businesses did not know how to sanitize their businesses properly, people did not know how to sanitize themselves properly and governments did not know how to sanitize properly because we had no recent experience with an epidemic. This was the fifth time Asia had an epidemic since 2003. They had learned that there really is no way businesses can sanitize their premises, the government can not sanitize its property properly either so the only proper public health response is quarantine. The Asians also learned that people can best prevent the spread of epidemics with masks when it is absolutely necessary to leave your residence.

    So at its most basic element, Covid 19 is a public sanitation crisis. And when sanitation issues can greatly effect the health of enough citizens to the point that it has a major impact on as large a sector of the economy as health care is, you have to do what is necessary and which works to create proper and effective sanitation.

    The politicians and business community did not want to follow the lead of Asia who had shut their economies down. They had the ostrich response. Asia’s economies will quickly come back because they knew it was necessary to take some short term economic pain. Sadly, because the governments in the West and the businesses in the west did not want to have even minimal business pain the result will be much worse than it could have been. And it will be a really tough time for many sectors of the West’s economy. Many will not recover.

  230. @Maple Curtain

    Actually is not about me. It is about my kids and my grandkids, asshole. To some extent they still depend on me financially and my wife. But more importantly they are not immune. Both my daughters have health issues that make them more susceptible to this disease. And I have a granddaughter that would be very susceptible to this disease. It is them I worry about. And even some young people who have no health issues are dying as well, so members of my family who are healthy could succumb. Making sure the elderly don’t die greatly enhances the chances of everyone else. The sicker the elderly get, the greater the viral load we subject everyone else to, and that decreases their chances as well.

    But like a lot of young people who are resentful of their elders, you don’t get it. Maybe you need more education or more experience. You could damn sure use a little wisdom.

    • Replies: @Maple Curtain
  231. @refl

    See my post at 233.

    • Replies: @refl
  232. @Alfred

    Why not refute him, Mr. Unz?

  233. @davidgmillsatty

    As I stated, you are all “Me, me, me.”

    Your personal situation is an anecdote which does not extrapolate to a societal aggregate.

    No, the survival of 20,000 or so Boomers is not a reason to destroy a society’s freedoms and economic prospects.

    • Troll: Spanky
  234. There’s a simple metric that can predict what regions and populations will suffer most in this crisis.
    I call it “the dog-shit index.” The more dog shit found on the streets and sidewalks, the more that area will suffer. It’s a simple measure of a population’s willingness to “do the right thing” when doing so is inconvenient. People who won’t even clean up after their dogs are sure-as-shit NOT going to implement the changes in their lives that are necessary to overcome this scourge.
    How much dog shit do you think there is on the streets of Singapore? Hong Kong? Tokyo?
    How about New York City? Mexico City? Rio de Janeiro? The answer is obvious.

  235. refl says:
    @davidgmillsatty

    it is the greed that got us here because the greedy would not heed what the medical experts were saying or would not follow Asia’s lead
    (…)It was greed that made people refuse to listen.

    Neither me nor you are greedy, neither is the better part of mankind. People want to be left in peace and have their fair chance to keep away from hardship. The Greedy – let’s say, the 0.1% – have lots to gain from this crisis, because in an economic breakdown, those who have the means will always force the population to follow their dictates. Wether the virus is real or not, what is happening is a show case example for the shock doctrine in action.
    This is the coup d’etat across what used to be the West: Civil rights are not worth the paper that they were written on, our governments beg China to tell them how to lock us up, and when our economies have broken down, our greedy elites will sell us out to China (never mind, I still take the Chinese to be the most sympathetic part in this game).

    So at its most basic element, Covid 19 is a public sanitation crisis.

    This is the meanest part of it – our societies are full of paranoids, who are afraid of anything and get hysterical about any bit of what they perceive as filth. It is impossible to live that way.
    The idea that anything you touch, any person that you meet can be your death warrant will make life miserable to the death.
    This manufactured psychosis has an immensly negative spiritual dimension. It would take a book to go into this dimension of Corona. Hopefully, some able brain will do so shortly.
    The idea of avoiding to touch anything, of fleeing human contact, of avoiding the elderly, of seeing your neighbour as a source of disease is so devastating that our societies will possibly not recover.

    Asia’s economies will quickly come back because they knew it was necessary to take some short term economic pain.

    Asian economies will overcome this, as China is going so strong and has proven so apt in dealing with 21 century challenges, that they can pull all of East Asia with them. Japan and South Korea will in the very near future abandon their allegiance to the US.
    In the meantime, the US is tearing itself apart in demented political infighting. Europe has been such a delusional spiritual basket case for decades now, that a flu virus could beat them into oblivion. It had to happen.

    • Replies: @Maple Curtain
  236. @refl

    This is the meanest part of it – our societies are full of paranoids, who are afraid of anything and get hysterical about any bit of what they perceive as filth. It is impossible to live that way.
    The idea that anything you touch, any person that you meet can be your death warrant will make life miserable to the death.
    This manufactured psychosis has an immensly negative spiritual dimension. It would take a book to go into this dimension of Corona. Hopefully, some able brain will do so shortly.
    The idea of avoiding to touch anything, of fleeing human contact, of avoiding the elderly, of seeing your neighbour as a source of disease is so devastating that our societies will possibly not recover.

    Well-stated.

    Death has always been part of life, but the Boomers thought they were different, eternally young and immortal.

    And now we must all pay for their sudden realization that it is not true.

    Same for the brainwashed of younger generations.

  237. @Spanky

    Sure, time is of the essence, but for what?

    Worldwide Deaths from January 1 – March 25, 2020

    21,297 – Deaths by Coronavirus
    113,034 – Deaths by Seasonal Flu
    228,095 – Deaths by Malaria
    249,904 – Deaths by Suicide
    313,903 – Deaths by Traffic Fatalities
    390, 908 – Deaths by HIV/AIDS
    1,162,481 – Deaths by Smoking
    1.909,804 – Deaths by Cancer
    2,382,382 – Deaths by Starvation

  238. Anon[420] • Disclaimer says:
    @Malla

    Islam is much worse than Hinduism. It takes India’s problems and makes them somewhat worse.

    If Muslims became Lutherans, India would be much better off.

    • Replies: @Malla
  239. Anon[420] • Disclaimer says:
    @Malla

    Why should India hold a plebiscite in Kashmir?

    White countries don’t give their land away. Nobody asks America to give up Texas or Australians to let aborigines take the land.
    Why should India be different?

    Muslims stole Kashmir, by ethnic cleansing of Hindu pandits. Brain dead libtard Hindu Congress Party allowed it to happen.

    No plebiscite.

    I agree about Assam and Bhutan. Let them go free.

  240. @skrik

    You don’t have the numbers to call this a pandemic.

    Why weren’t you and Pops outraged over the much higher annual death count from boring old flu?

    I get your POV, but elders and people with weakened immune systems of any age must be cautious regardless.

    #coronahoax

    • Replies: @skrik
  241. skrik says:

    I don’t need numbers; since when did “boring old flu” crash hospital systems? Oh, like Italy, Spain and next, US:

    The White House task force on the pandemic estimates the pandemic could kill 100,000 to 240,000 people even if lockdown orders remain in place and Americans abide by them

    rgds

  242. skrik says:
    @Sick of Orcs

    Kindly see #245. Q: How can one “be cautious regardless?” Many infected may be *invisibly* so. What of the much vaunted R2P; consider mitigation vs. suppression, wouldn’t everybody be better protected if our so-called ‘leaders’ chose the latter? rgds

  243. How can one “be cautious regardless?”

    If you have a weak immune system, you limit time around others and wear a mask.

    Have you noticed hospitals have never struggled to treat “regular” flu patient numbers which are 30 times as numerous?

    Let’s say 250,000 Americans do kick the bucket. That’s a quarter million out of 280 million people, not counting the 50 million illegal invaders.

    Almost all of the quarter mil would be 80+ years old or have other conditions, just like 99% of infected now.

    We done been hornswoggled.

    #coronahoax
    #firefauci

    Worldwide Deaths from January 1 – March 25, 2020

    21,297 – Deaths by Coronavirus
    113,034 – Deaths by Seasonal Flu
    228,095 – Deaths by Malaria
    249,904 – Deaths by Suicide
    313,903 – Deaths by Traffic Fatalities
    390, 908 – Deaths by HIV/AIDS
    1,162,481 – Deaths by Smoking
    1.909,804 – Deaths by Cancer
    2,382,382 – Deaths by Starvation

    • Replies: @skrik
  244. skrik says:
    @Sick of Orcs

    Worldwide Deaths from

    .. whenever do not improve your argument, here the 3rd time around. There is clearly some difference between Covid-19 and Seasonal Flu, why else are the hospital systems – Italy, Spain, France, UK and US, say, in crisis? Instead of suppression = test, isolate, treat and trace [including finding the asymptomatic = ‘stealth’ spreaders], we have mitigation = panic and lockdowns which are so far not working remotely fast enough [possibly never will]. It’s not rocket science and kindly recall R2P = responsibility to protect. rgds

    • Replies: @Sick of Orcs
  245. Ram says:

    The UK has 1.5 million “useless eaters” ready for slow elimination.

  246. Malla says:
    @Anon

    Yeah, I would rather prefer an India with 13% of the population being Christians (Lutheran or whatever type) and 3% Muslim rather than what we have now in reality, the reverse in percentage.

    • Agree: Sick of Orcs
  247. @Malla

    It makes sense. I saw one of your posts where you brag about veni, vidi, vici … how your forefathers came to India, conquered the natives, forcibly took their women and converted the ones you didn’t kill to monotheism, i.e. Islam (essentially, that’s what the largest minority is today even without Pakistan and Banglastan besides, the European Christians came much later than the Islamic hordes).

    How long before you convert the rest of Hindoos into Muslims or Christians?

    • Replies: @Malla
  248. Malla says:
    @Really No Shit

    It makes sense. I saw one of your posts where you brag about veni, vidi, vici … how your forefathers came to India, conquered the natives, forcibly took their women and converted the ones you didn’t kill to monotheism, i.e. Islam

    Sorry, you confused me with someone else. I am Hindu myself. None of my ancestors have been Muslims. Indeed I have criticized both Islam and Christianity repeatedly on Unz for being Jewish movements in their formative years, but eventually Jews lost their control over these movements and thus these religions became positive. I have also praised some of the positive elements of both religions.

    How long before you convert the rest of Hindoos into Muslims or Christians?

    I have no desire to do that and I doubt that is ever gonna happen. I just want the presence of a few Muslims, Christians and Buddhists in India to prevent outright Brahmin Raj, so that the large masses of the lower castes can run away to other religions if Brahmin Raj is forced upon them in the future. That threat itself keeps Brahmin Raj at bay for the moment. That is it.
    Even tho I am upper caste (non Brahmin) myself, I oppose Brahmin Raj because that would be hell on earth. Thus the presence of Christianity as a religion and Muslims as a people is needed in India to balance out the Hinduvadi crackpots.

  249. Malla says:
    @Really No Shit

    How long before you convert the rest of Hindoos into Muslims or Christians?

    I am indifferent to the Hindoos but I have an intense dislike for the Muslims, especially the Arabs

    You Sure?? You sound like a Hindoo to me. But maybe I am wrong.

    • Replies: @Really No Shit
  250. @skrik

    Worldwide Death Stats

    .. whenever do not improve your argument, here the 3rd time around.

    Sure it does. The number of chinese flu deaths is miniscule.

    There is clearly some difference between Covid-19 and Seasonal Flu, why else are the hospital systems – Italy, Spain, France, UK and US, say, in crisis?

    They’re not in crisis. Globalist swine and fake news made this a crisis.

    Instead of suppression = test, isolate, treat and trace [including finding the asymptomatic = ‘stealth’ spreaders], we have mitigation = panic and lockdowns which are so far not working remotely fast enough [possibly never will].

    You agree the lockdown of 3 billion people is a failure? That’s a start.

    Clues that #coronahoax is a hoax:

    1) Phony ‘hillary-loving stooge’ Fauci–who for some reason is still employed by the Orange Buffoon–contradicts himself:

    From a peer-reviewed paper by Fauci and two co-authors published on March 26, 2020 in the New England Journal of Medicine:

    “On the basis of a case definition requiring a diagnosis of pneumonia, the currently reported case fatality rate is approximately 2%. In another article in the Journal, Guan et al. report mortality of 1.4% among 1099 patients with laboratory-confirmed Covid-19; these patients had a wide spectrum of disease severity. If one assumes that the number of asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic cases is several times as high as the number of reported cases, the case fatality rate may be considerably less than 1%. This suggests that the overall clinical consequences of Covid-19 may ultimately be more akin to those of a severe seasonal influenza (which has a case fatality rate of approximately 0.1%) or a pandemic influenza (similar to those in 1957 and 1968) rather than a disease similar to SARS or MERS, which have had case fatality rates of 9 to 10% and 36%, respectively.”

    2) Most deaths are 80+ elderly and folks with compromised immune systems/other ailments. In other words, the same expected demographics for any seasonal flu.

    3) Visual evidence of empty hospitals in supposed “crisis” areas (thank you Citizen Journalists!)

    4) The politicization of hydroxychloroquine for treatment.

    5) The immediate looting of the US Treasury on behalf of the usual suspects.

    6) The awfully suspicious timing of Swill Gates’ “Event 201” pandemic exercise.

    7) Reports that causes of death from other ailments are being changed to “covid-related” with no testing required.

    8) Breaking news: The leaders of Norway, Denmark, Czech Republic and Austria have announced plans to relax coronavirus lockdown restrictions.

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-the-european-countries-beginning-to-lift-lockdown-measures-11969857

    I say again: We done been hornswoggled. Hornswoggled I tells ya!

    • Replies: @skrik
  251. skrik says:
    @Sick of Orcs

    I say again: We done been hornswoggled. Hornswoggled I tells ya!

    Using silly language suggests a non-serious intent which disinclines me to respond, but I will stoop to address this:

    3) Visual evidence of empty hospitals in supposed “crisis” areas (thank you Citizen Journalists!)

    Here, part of a comment to an MoA article:

    USA For Profit health care will see to it that thousands or more die needlessly, the cover up is a secondary issue. Just 3 examples:

    Hospital in Southern Arizona says it’s on the brink of closure because of COVID-19 costs.

    Med staff fired en masse because – no profits to be made from Covid-19 patients

    Posted by: Noirette | Apr 6 2020 18:25 utc | 10

    We can see an ideological component = neoliberalism-polluted market-economy [once referred to as “voodoo economics”], whereby medicine for profit preferentially delivers profit before health, and when the profits dry up, the for-profit hospitals tend to close up = Sick of Orcs’ “Visual evidence of empty hospitals.” rgds

  252. Hornswoggled is exactly right.

    I didn’t promote the visual evidence of hospitals meme as gospel proof, only that it exists, and the hospitals in question weren’t closed down.

    (The bankrupting of hospitals by illegals has been happening for 30+ years, but that’s a different topic.)

    If NYC is an epicenter for chinese flu, why are only 22 out of 1000 beds in use on the Navy hospital ship?

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/04/03/politics/navy-hospital-ship-comfort-new-york-coronavirus/index.html

    Does ‘hillary-loving stooge’ Fauci’s suspicious reversal on chinese flu lethality concern you?

    Corona is real enough; the hysterical government response to a freakin’ flu is the #coronahoax

    My agenda here is this: “Are you folks insane? The Emperor is buck naked.”

    Also regards.

    S.

    • Replies: @skrik
  253. skrik says:
    @Sick of Orcs

    Q: Do you read your own references?

    A US Navy hospital ship currently docked in New York City harbor is treating only 22 patients as of Friday afternoon, despite having a 1,000 bed capacity to treat non-coronavirus patients, according to a US Navy official.

    New York City’s hospitals have been overwhelmed with coronavirus cases and are struggling to respond to patients constantly streaming in.

    There are some patients that the Comfort can’t bring on board, mainly those who are immunosuppressed due to the fact the ship is open bay and does not have the ability to isolate patients, according to a Navy official familiar with operations on the ship

    [My bolding] But all non-critical ‘profit-generating’ ops like artificial hips etc. have been suspended, killing that income source, therefore the hospitals “on the brink of closure” and “Med staff fired en masse” …

    I mentioned erring-ideology crippling capitalism; you seem to have an idée fixe crippling your ability to comprehend the reality of the Covid-19 disaster. I also mentioned R2P; what recourse do so-called ‘democratic’ citizens have in the case where their so-called ‘leadership’ makes the wrong call? Kindly consider this: “Sweden using ice rinks and shipping containers as morgues overflow due to Covid-19 deaths” rgds

    • Replies: @Sick of Orcs
  254. @Malla

    “You sound like a Hindoo to me. But maybe I am wrong.”

    You’re wrong …

    The reason I suspected you as being Muslim is because, like some White Christian Americans who go out of their way to criticize all things western, your criticism, at times, of the Hindoo/Indian society, seems superfluous at best and unwarranted at the least … it’s almost as if you’re an agent provocateur.

    But if truly you are a devil’s advocate then good for you and those unfortunate billion in India, for God knows they need it.

    To sum it up, I don’t like Islam/Arabs because they pose a threat to the established religious and cultural values of America as well as Europe and I don’t like China/Chinese because they’re a threat to economic stability of the same … the former is an unintelligent enemy but the latter is more crafty but both require constant vigilance.

    • Replies: @Malla
  255. Malla says:
    @Really No Shit

    You’re wrong …

    OK, my wrong.
    It is just that when you wrote about converting Hindus to Muslims and Christians and some conspiracy about this, this is how Hinduvadis think.

    at times, of the Hindoo/Indian society, seems superfluous at best and unwarranted at the least …

    I bring out some facts for the World to hear and know.

    I don’t like Islam/Arabs because they pose a threat to the established religious and cultural values of America as well as Europe and I don’t like China/Chinese because they’re a threat to economic stability of the same … the former is an unintelligent enemy but the latter is more crafty but both require constant vigilance.

    Very true. But the Islamic World would have been a minor issue for the West /Europe if such large scale immigration of Muslims (and other non Whites) was not allowed into the nations of the West/Europe in the first place. This migration of large numbers of non Whites including Muslims is abnormal. And if Jews were kicked off from the West/Russia to some place like Madagascar or India, there was even less need of the West to interfere in the Middle East as well as spread Jewish Cultural Marxist promiscuity and degenerate culture in the world including the Islamic world and thus resentful muslims would have been even less of an issue. The Muslims would have been happy with their camels and Koran, somewhere in the desert, impotent against the industrial West/ Europa.
    And Communist China would not have been such a major issue if Western and Japanese corporations had not gone (or not allowed to go) with Capital and technology into China to begin with. Communist China would have been even less of an issue if, the West would have nipped Communism in the bud in Russia itself, if FDR had not come to power or FDR would have been unsuccessful to provoke Imperial Japan (the bulwark against Communism in the East), if the USA had not back stabbed the Chinese Nationalists in support of the Maoists etc…

  256. Whatever did the marvelous lemurs ever do to deserve the Jew? India on the other hand can absorb them nicely. I don’t believe the beastly Arab would have been happy just with the desert and the Koran; it’s in his DNA to rape, pillage and destroy … does Zoroastrian Persia come to mind?

    You’re correct in stating that the Chinese monster is largely the creation of American hubris (Japan is simply a vector of that malaise) but that genie will be put back in to the bottle, Zionists notwithstanding. Let’s wait and see how the next decade unfolds. We do live in interesting times!

  257. @skrik

    A US Navy hospital ship currently docked in New York City harbor is treating only 22 patients as of Friday afternoon, despite having a 1,000 bed capacity to treat non-coronavirus patients, according to a US Navy official.

    If the ERs and wards were full of corona cases, wouldn’t there be more than 22 non-corona cases being treated on the hospital ship? NYC is a big place.

    Where are the photos and footage of these overcrowded hospitals? It’s gotten so bad fooltube just banned empty hospital videos.

    I mentioned erring-ideology crippling capitalism; you seem to have an idée fixe crippling your ability to comprehend the reality of the Covid-19 disaster.

    My fixed idea is based on evidence. The only people succumbing to china flu in large numbers are 80+ elderly and people who were already sick from other conditions; the only disaster is the economic one that was needlessly created.

    The CDC Confesses to Lying About COVID-19 Death Numbers

    https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/04/the_cdc_confesses_to_lying_about_covid19_death_numbers.html

    Epidemiologist: Coronavirus could be ‘exterminated’ if lockdowns were lifted

    https://www.thecollegefix.com/epidemiologist-coronavirus-could-be-exterminated-if-lockdowns-were-lifted/

    Please stop pretending to choke on a nothingburger.

    • Replies: @skrik
  258. skrik says:
    @Sick of Orcs

    stop pretending to choke on a nothingburger

    I’m not choking on anything [pretended or not], but since you claim this “freakin’ flu is the #coronahoax” = scam or swindle, which would actually be a serious crime, then you may care to justify your idée fixe by showing how each term in the following is satisfied:

    ‘At any crime-scene, one may consider means, motive and opportunity, but a more complete list includes premeditation, presence, any modus operandi and cui bono?

    For example, the ‘means’ would be the manufacture then release of Covid-19 [note: Both would be assumed deliberate, but although we don’t really know who might have dunnit, the Wuhan bio-lab would be implicated as part of the putative ‘crime-scene;’ they’d be *most* unlikely to have released it deliberately, but they may well have been ‘playing’ with it. Also of course, they may well have been ‘set up for a fall.’]

    A candidate for ‘motive’ could be: ‘Culling the over-65 years old useless eaters,’ say.

    For the ‘modus operandi,’ is there any known party or parties with a record of deploying bio-warfare agents?

    I now leave it to you to fill in any idée fixe crime-scene details you are aware of. rgds

    • Replies: @Sick of Orcs
  259. Bork says:
    @Chinaman

    The white normies who blindly follow what the TV and newspaper says have been told that masks are only for the infected and that they dont work anyway unless you are a doctor who is educated in the proper use of masks and using a mask without being trained gives no benefit. There are tons of “cultural baizhou” normies who parrot this bullshit back on local non-english bbses giving this disinformation the status of herd truth.

    You chinese must get into your head that western governments are infested with christian baizhou death worshippers who see this virus as a great opportunity to trim some of the white herd. That is why they are giving desinformation, their intent is to spread this virus as wide as fast as possible.

  260. Bork says:
    @jim jones

    IIRC these masks were KN-95 which seems to be a standard adapted for asian faces. Buy ffp3 masks, they have an inner rubber seal that gives them a wider face range fit, and if not that, hit the dutch in the face with a frying pan, and the masks will fit.

  261. coffeman says:

    Whatever happened to the story that corona virus couldn’t live above 86 degrees F?
    That might be a good reason…

  262. @skrik

    Now that Dr. Muselix openly admitted every cause of death is being labeled as china flu (making pneumonia feel left out) we have no accurate way to count. On the plus side, even with these false claims, the number of deaths is being revised downward.

    Motive? Governments are always trying to seize more power, it’s a constant. Beyond that, I have no evidence whether red china planned this or screwed up. Either way, I believe they are responsible for that part.

    The hoax of #coronahoax is the hysterical, unwarranted overreaction by world governments. The reds are not responsible for that.

    In past years had fake news frantically reported every flu death like they’re doing now with china virus it would’ve appeared far more serious.

    We disagree on the scope and lethality of china flu.

    • Replies: @skrik
  263. skrik says:
    @Sick of Orcs

    We disagree on the scope and lethality of china flu

    You are looking for trouble, and show extreme bias, with your slanderously false nomenclature. It is possible, that there are at least 3 things going on with Covid-19:

    1) A flu-like pandemic with often fatal results (especially for 65+s) and as for ‘scope and lethality’ for those ‘going down’ it’s truly gruesome,

    2) a grubby power-grab by corrupt ‘Western’ govts, and

    3) a premeditated bio-warfare mainly against us, we the people, 1st ‘*visible* shots’ having been seen in Wuhan/China. (Not so BTW, we still have no info on the genealogy of the Iran version).

    Due to memories being refreshed by the other current ‘hot’ unz-topic of “9/11 Truth,” we see that ‘Western’ MSM is behaving in the same ‘bad’ way as ‘back then,’ a sure sign of a corrupt rulers’ campaign against us, we the people. grrr

    • Replies: @Sick of Orcs
  264. @skrik

    You are looking for trouble, and show extreme bias, with your slanderously false nomenclature.

    Call it what you will, it’s #coronahoax. There’s 8 other causes of global death already over 100,000 and three others in the millions.

    It is possible, that there are at least 3 things going on with Covid-19:

    1) A flu-like pandemic with often fatal results (especially for 65+s) and as for ‘scope and lethality’ for those ‘going down’ it’s truly gruesome,

    2) a grubby power-grab by corrupt ‘Western’ govts, and

    3) a premeditated bio-warfare mainly against us, we the people, 1st ‘*visible* shots’ having been seen in Wuhan/China. (Not so BTW, we still have no info on the genealogy of the Iran version).

    Responding:

    1) numbers dead from china virus are below average for and compared to seasonal flu

    2) of course, any government will try to seize power, as much as they can

    3) Trump, being a wimp, won’t call out red china regardless of whether it can be proven a deliberate act of war

    There’s no debate here, not because I’m right but because I’ve made my case for what #coronahoax is. If we disagree it’s fine.

Comments are closed.

Subscribe to All Paul Craig Roberts Comments via RSS