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Hersh, Gauthier, and the Coming of Terror in Xinjiang
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Seymour Hersh created a stir with his most recent piece in the London Review of Books, Military to Military.

Hersh reported that the Joint Chiefs of Staff under General Dempsey had actively sabotaged President Obama’s Syria policy in 2013, when they took issue with the White House’s apparent acquiescence to Turkey secretly funneling support to unvetted Islamist militants.

The anti-Hersh forces have been in full cry but his claims appears credible. Quite possibly, the Pentagon has fallen out of love with wonk-warrior COIN fetish for the umpteenth time, and has returned to the reassuring “massive use of conventional forces in pursuit of explicit US goals” Powell Doctrine. Anyway, plenty of grist for the mill.

My interest, naturally, was attracted to Hersh’s description of a “Uyghur rat-line” organized by Turkey to funnel militants from the PRC’s Xinjiang Autonomous Region into Syria:

The analyst, whose views are routinely sought by senior government officials, told me that ‘Erdoğan has been bringing Uighurs into Syria by special transport while his government has been agitating in favour of their struggle in China. Uighur and Burmese Muslim terrorists who escape into Thailand somehow get Turkish passports and are then flown to Turkey for transit into Syria.’ He added that there was also what amounted to another ‘rat line’ that was funnelling Uighurs – estimates range from a few hundred to many thousands over the years – from China into Kazakhstan for eventual relay to Turkey, and then to IS territory in Syria.

Hersh also quoted Syria’s ambassador to the PRC:

‘China is concerned that the Turkish role of supporting the Uighur fighters in Syria may be extended in the future to support Turkey’s agenda in Xinjiang. We are already providing the Chinese intelligence service with information regarding these terrorists and the routes they crossed from on travelling into Syria.’

Hersh also consulted analyst Christina Lin (who quotes me! In her pieces) on the Uyghur issue.

So the Uyghur angle in the LRB article leans on “the analyst”, a source Hersh has relied on since 9/11 and whose conspicuous single-sourciness has been a constant complaint of critics seeking to impugn Hersh’s reporting; a Syrian official perhaps happy to add to Erdogan’s woes by hanging the Uyghur issue around his neck; and an analyst dealing to a certain extent in open source information.

Therefore, I paid attention to a statement Hersh made during an interview with Democracy Now!, describing a study by the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Defense Intelligence Agency in 2013:

The third major finding [in the study] was about Turkey. It said we simply have to deal with the problem. The Turkish government, led by Erdogan, was—had opened—basically, his borders were open, arms were flying. I had written about that earlier for the London Review, the rat line. There were arms flying since 2012, covertly, with the CIA’s support and the support of the American government. Arms were coming from Tripoli and other places in Benghazi, in Libya, going into Turkey and then being moved across the line. And another interesting point is that a lot of Chinese dissidents, the Uyghurs, the Muslim Chinese that are being pretty much hounded by the Chinese, were also—another rat line existed. They were coming from China into Kazakhstan, into Turkey and into Syria. So, this was a serious finding.

Unless Hersh is carelessly interpolating a non-sequitur about the Uyghurs in his remarks, it looks like his source told him there was a JCS/DIA finding, based on classified sigint/humint, about Erdogan playing footsie with Uyghur militants.

This is something I am inclined to believe, given the public record concerning the Turkey-Uyghur special relationship, and also the bizarre role of illicit Turkish passports in the travel of Uyghur refugees from Xinjiang, through Southeast Asia, and to their publicly acknowledged safe haven in Turkey. I’ve written about the Turkey/Uyghur issue several times in 2015 including my July piece Uyghurs Move Edge Closer to Center of Turkish Diplomacy, Politics, and Geostrategic Calculation.

The other Uyghur related furor in the news concerns Ursula Gauthier, the Beijing correspondent for L’Obs. It is speculated that Gauthier will not get her journalist’s visa extended by the PRC, in retaliation for an article she wrote pouring scorn on the PRC’s attempts to invoke a massacre of ethnic-Han security personnel and miners, apparently by Uyghurs, at Baicheng in Xinjiang, to claim “war on terror” parity with the November 13 Paris attack.

Details of the Baicheng case don’t quite support Gauthier’s indignation:

The attack occurred on Sept. 18, when a group of knife-wielding suspects set upon security guards at the gate of the Sogan Colliery in Aksu (in Chinese, Akesu) prefecture’s Bay (Baicheng) county, before targeting the mine owner’s residence and a dormitory for workers.

When police officers arrived at the mine in Terek township to control the situation, the attackers rammed their vehicles using trucks loaded down with coal, sources said.

Ekber Hashim, a police officer who inspected the mine’s dormitory following the incident, told RFA that “nearly all the workers who were not on shift at the time were killed or injured.”

“Some workers were sleeping while others were preparing to work when the attackers raided the building after killing the security guards,” he said.

Terek township deputy police chief Kurbanjan and his assistant “survived the incident by throwing themselves into the river next to the colliery.”

“They went [to the mine] as part of a second team after five police officers, including police chief Wu Feng, were killed,” said the officer, who also declined to provide his name.

“The second team had no idea everyone in the first team had been killed when they left the station. They turned their motorcycles around and fled when they saw the dead and injured, but the attackers pursued them in trucks and they were forced to drive the bikes into the river to escape.”

Another officer from Bulung named Tursun Hezim said police had received a notice from higher level authorities warning them to keep a lookout for a group of people wearing “camouflage”—a tactic allegedly employed by suspects in other recent attacks in the Uyghur region.

“Based on this guidance, I assume the suspects attacked while wearing uniforms, which allowed them to catch the guards at the colliery and police on the road when they were unaware and successfully make their escape,” he said.

One can’t believe everything one hears in the paper or on RFA, but the Baicheng attack, though executed with primitive implements, does not appear to have been the “Hulk Smash!” explosion of righteous rage by innocent Uyghurs driven to vent their grievances against their oppressors. It was a careful, pre-meditated attack that involved gulling mine security with the use of fake uniforms, murdering dozens of peasant miners, then setting an ambush for two sets of cops as they rushed to the scene.

Understandably, the PRC was keen to label this outrage terrorism. The Western media, apparently led by Gauthier, not so much.

Beleaguered journalists in the PRC may not appreciate my opinion, but I considered Gauthier’s framing quite wrong-headed. Baicheng and Paris are, in my view, strikingly similar in ways that Gauthier appeared unable to appreciate, as blowback against ham-fisted government policies, as I wrote here.

Fact is, the Baicheng outrage appears to come uncomfortably close to a very particular kind of “terrorism-that-we-don’t-want-to-call-terrorism”: political violence committed as part of a decolonization/national liberation struggle.

There is a sizable list of ethnic groups getting brutalized by central government cum occupying forces: Palestinians, Chechens, Kashmiris, Uyghurs…to name a few. Resistance by local ethnic/national/religious movements may involve acts of violence intended to bring attention to the cause, demoralize the occupiers, chip away at the resolve of the central government and, in a rather less savory aspect, elicit a violent crackdown that will escalate and spread the violence so local unrest is transformed into a pervasive security and political crisis.

The history of efforts to define “terrorism” is darkly amusing but a consistent theme has been attempts to carve out exemptions for national liberation struggles, not just to soothe the consciences of conflicted liberals, but also to protect overseas supporters from legal sanction.

But openly claiming “national liberation struggle” classification for Uyghur violence (instead of “localized inchoate fury”) would involve acknowledging that some sort of movement with separatist aims exists and poses a security threat to the PRC and its rule in Xinjiang. This would buttress PRC state propaganda, contribute to the idea that there is something to all the ETIM talk, highlight the existence of Uyghur militants embedded in Islamist groups in Afghanistan and western Pakistan, and direct more professional interest to the efforts of Turkey to exploit refugee Uyghurs as a paramilitary resource in Syria—as described in Hersh’s article– and potentially across Central Asia and into Xinjiang.

And it would involve Western media outlets giving up on the “PRC is just making up ‘terrorism’/we can’t credence these reports until our reporters can investigate freely” dodge, which is exemplified by a recurring phrase in RFA reporting on Uyghur-related violence that slides along the explaining/excusing/condoning spectrum in reminding the reader that the Uyghurs of Xinjiang suffer under continual, grinding repression.

“…experts outside China say Beijing has exaggerated the threat from Uyghur “separatists” and that domestic policies are responsible for an upsurge in violence that has left hundreds dead since 2012.”

It would also make life awkward for the World Uyghur Congress and the Uyghur American Association which have carefully positioned themselves as “not separatists” in order to obtain a platform in the West as the voices of peaceful civil society and human rights aspirations of the Uyghur people, for which they received grants of \$275,000 and \$295,000, respectively from the National Endowment for Democracy in 2014 (the NED classifies this area of activity as “Xinjiang/East Turkistan” which is, given the supposed non-existence of the “East Turkistan Independence Movement”, somewhat interesting).

Fact is, the PRC is not interested in creating a Palestine-type situation in Xinjiang, with a non-violent/democracy inclined opposition attracting sympathy and some diplomatic and material support from the West. That’s probably why Ilham Tothi, who had aspirations to serve as a secular/democratic voice of Uyghurs within the autonomous region, is in jail. The PRC, relying on its military and economic power and, most importantly, the demographic advantage it gains from submerging Uyghurs under a tide of Han immigration (something the Baicheng attack was perhaps meant to discourage), is probably willing to polarize the situation in Xinjiang through oppressive policies and deal with whatever militancy its brutality throws up.

In my opinion, the CCP sees Chechnya as the worst-case template/resolution: a national liberation struggle co-opted and discredited by an influx of Islamist-tinged terrorists who are, in turn, destroyed by the state in a brutal, prolonged war, shattering the secular/moderate independence movement in the process.

I expect this scenario will drive PRC diplomacy and security policy throughout Central and South Asia in the foreseeable future; and the politically-inflected debate over the existence of “terrorism” in the western reaches of the PRC will be remembered with bitter nostalgia.

(Republished from China Matters by permission of author or representative)
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  1. This is a very interesting and informative article. I might have favored such a course in the increasingly distant past, but in 2015, this seems like a very foolish path upon which to embark (so naturally, Erdogan’s involved; he is involved in all Eurasian stupidity, it seems). On the other hand, I do sympathize with the poor Uyghurs, and would ideally like to see them have their own state. I would suggest as an alternative, that the PRC could treat them decently, but much like expecting the USA to have a prudent foreign policy, that is sadly the well within the realm of fantasy & science-fiction.

    • Agree: Wizard of Oz
  2. Rehmat says:

    Some of us must remember how the Zionist controlled mainstream media orchestrated anti-China media war against Olympics 2008 in Beijing (China) – as early as 2006. It wanted all the western ZOG countries to boycott the Olympics – comparing it with Olympics 1936 in Nazi Berlin – where Afro-American track champion Jessie Owen won four Gold Medals. Jonathan Zimmerman got his Zionist rant published in (March 24, 2006) in which he called Washington to lead the boycott of Chinese Olympics: “To be fair, the Chinese leaders have never demonstrated the genocidal mentality or the global ambitions of Nazi Germany. And nominally, of course, China remains a “communist” nation. But make no mistake: It’s also a fascist one.” Now we have to excuse Jonathan’s ignorance of the fact that a great number of elites both in Nazi and Communist “fascism” happened to be European Jews, who have established a similar “fascism” in occupied Palestine.

    Chinese have carried ten times larger Holocaust of Uighurs and other Muslim Turkic people in the region under their occupation since 18th century than German did to Jews. Uighurs, like Khazarian Jews are of Turkic race. But their top resistance leader, Rebiya Kadeer, lives in exile in United States and not in Turkey. It’s Washington which is using her as anti-China propaganda tool.

    After 9/11, the Chinese government linked religion and separatism to terrorism and described the Uighur separatists as terrorists. It succeeded in getting one Uighur organization, the East Turkistan Islamic Movement, placed on the United Nations’ list of international terrorist organizations. Four Uighurs captured in Afghanistan were incarcerated at Guantánamo for years before being dumped in Albania because no other country would provide them asylum.

    • Replies: @Dicentim
  3. Svigor says:

    Russia Rearms for a New Era



    Bombed the crap out of Serbia and made a jihadist enclave out of Kosovo
    Invaded Iraq, killed thousands, broke the country and left it a failed state
    Invaded Afghanistan, killed thousands, and made that country even worse than it was already, if that’s possible
    Fomented the trouble in Ukraine
    Broke Libya
    Broke Syria

    And that’s just the high points.

    Funny how the “leftist” NYT ignores all of this and points the finger at the Russians.

    • Agree: Realist
    • Replies: @Quartermaster
  4. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    China should allow the southwestern part of Xinjiang centered around Kashgar (which is 95% Uighur) to become its own independent country for Uighurs.

    Uighurs likely have an IQ of 85 or lower. Therefore they will always economically and academically underperform compared to the rest of the country and be a drain on resources for China. Like in Puerto Rico, the rest of China will need to transfer billions of dollars every year to Uighurs in Xinjiang to buy stability.

    There’s not much benefit to China to paying billions of dollars every year for the loyalty of a Turkic ethnic group that has a low average IQ. Perhaps a middle class dominant developed China will see the folly of maintaining a country with the Uighurs.

    • Replies: @By-tor
    , @foolisholdman
  5. 5371 says:

    [There’s not much benefit to China to paying billions of dollars every year for the loyalty of a Turkic ethnic group that has a low average IQ.]

    For a territory as valuable geopolitically and in terms of natural resources as Xinjiang, it seems well worth it.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  6. Priss Factor [AKA "The Priss Factory"] says: • Website

    Peter Flea, you say America filled with hate for not taking in endless Chinee cuz of Chinee Exclusion Act.

    Well, why you no call for end of Muslim Exclusion Act in Xinjiang? Why Chinee not allow endless number of Muslim immigrants into Chiner? Why Chinee act like Donald Trump?

    And if Chinee for freedom, why Han Chinee rule over non-Han Mooslims in Xinjiang?

    It Chinee Imperialism. It Chinee Hate. Also, Chinee allow Han migration into Xinjiang, but it not allow open borders between Xinjiang and rest of Moo world.

    Chinee no good. They full of hate.

    • Replies: @Eustace Tilley (not)
  7. Singh says:

    Xinjiang has GDP of 2 trillion & produces large share of China’s hydrocarbons. The region singlehandedly allows China to be one of the top producers in the world.

    Both the Turks & Han deserve to be ovened, as UttarPatha is a core part of our territory.

    Everyone from Ahoms to Vietnamese have been pushed south/west by the savage daughter killing Han.

    Do people realize both Tibet & Xinjiang are 40% han?

    Yes, give dirty turks another state so that you white cuck americans can use it to spread your evangelical secular demographic suicide cult lol.

    Good luck, you couldn’t break into Baghdad so you’re shut out of the Persian / Hindu world.

    The Real Aryan one 😛

    • Replies: @This Is Our Home
  8. Dicentim says:

    I have no beef in this fight but for the umpteenth time noticed your comment that has the usual quality and insight. Why is it that your comments are always Islamist rants? You always blame everyone else for “holocausts” against your fellow correligionists. The word is genocide, some Jews claimed “holocaust” for themselves and made it into a religion, I do not approve of that as many other people don’t, nevertheless, no one would call other genocides “holocaust”, so invent something new and by the way, your people are not so peaceful either, actually they are some of the most genocidal psychos known to mankind, ask the neighbours, perhaps you can label some of their actions as “holocaust”. So, Nazis were Jews, right? So, Nazis were evil Jewish fascists but they let a Black American win medals in their olympics. Right? And Uyghurs are peaceful and not massively involved in terrorism, including in other unfortunate countries, right? Turkic race? Your Uyghurs and Khazarians don’t exactly look alike or for that matter have much in common or do they? And even if they are from the same “race”, are you an Islamist or a Turkic supremacist? So, the US supports Uyghurs by giving asylum to their leader and using her as a propaganda tool or does it oppress those poor people by taking them to Albania after Guantanamo? Is your goal here just to participate as some countries do in the olympics or is it to prove the point of some HBD and IQ oriented posters and commenters about consanguinity in the Islamic world? Seriously, don’t you people have any self esteem and just write stuff to appear eloquent and knowledgeable? Don’t you know that on this site, there are some actually smart people? Don’t you know that you are a disgrace not only to this site but to your own people that I am sure still have some intelligent individuals? Why don’t you post your comments on Facebook instead or on your silly blog?

    • Replies: @Rehmat
    , @This Is Our Home
  9. Rehmat says:

    Seymour Hersh is a fine investigative reporter, but no doubt committed to the interests of his Tribe. He is vilifying Erdogan not because Turkish president is helping US-Israel to topple Bashar al-Assad, but because Erdogan had long been declared ANTISEMITE by the Organized Jewry for insulting the war criminal Shimon Peres.

    I’m sure, Hersh knows that like Uyghur, most of European Jews occupying Palestine are also of Turkic race. So what’s Hersh’s problem? After all, Uyghur are helping their Israeli Turk brothers to topple an Arab regime in Syria.

    The anti-Hersh forces were in full cry in January 2011, when Hersh accused the Zio-conservatives for running American foreign policy in the Middle East.

    “What I’m really talking about is how eight or nine neoconservatives , radicals (Jews) if you will, overthrew the American government. Took it over,” he said. “It’s not only that the neocons took it over but how easily they did it – how Congress disappeared, how the press became part of it, how the public acquiesced.”

    • Replies: @marwan
  10. One can only hope that one day in the 21. century one big power – Russia, India or China – will seriously start to fight back against muslim expansion.

  11. marwan says:

    If your goal is to prove to the forum that muslims have an innate tendency toward wild conspiracy theories to explain away their massive and unparalleled failure ,well then , well don lad !!!!
    I can’t really blame you . Hey if I was a member of a cult like islam numbering 1.5 billion , whose prophet and holy book preaches their penultimate supremacy , and not only that but refers to jews and the descendants of pigs and monkeys , yet and still these jews who you outnumber by a magnitude of 100 to 1 keep beating you militarily , intelectually ,scientifically , medically , academically and in every possible way , hey I would be mad too. Its a difficult thing to reconcile in your mind , hence the wild conspiracy theories .

    The khazar nonsense was debunked by science quite some time ago. Jews are a religion not a race . Anyone can convert and be a jew . There are black jews , white jews , every color in the human spectrum . Israel is not majority european . The majority of Israelis 60 % are sephardic or mizrahi. black jews are 5% . I know its bitter when 15 million jews cannot be defeated by 1.5 billion muslims, hey its very embarrassing for you , I know . But instead of conspiracy nonsense why don’t you low IQ muslims try to better yourselves and just forget about jews . ??

    • Replies: @KA
    , @KA
    , @Wizard of Oz
  12. KA says:

    “Sequencing an Ashkenazi reference panel supports population-targeted personal genomics and illuminates Jewish and European origins’

    Nature Communications

    ” An analysis of the gene database shows that the original Ashkenazi Jews were about half European and half Middle Eastern. They lived in the medieval era, about 600 to 800 years ago, according to the analysis – and numbered just 350 or so people. ” Sept 10,2014

  13. KA says:

    “The Khazars .a Turkish tribe,were first heard of on the northern shores of the Caspian,and then in the countries north of the Black Sea.They subjugated the plains of the Crimea at 7th century.”
    .. They had capital at the current site of Astrachan
    Emperors of Constantinople cultivated friednly relation through marriage and trade. But they were not Christian . Emperor Leo IV was surnamed ,the Khazarian on account of his maternal origin.

    The Khagans or Khans were Jews but the most of the people living there were not.
    They were ,Muslim,or Pagan and Greek Christian . According to Ibn Haukal,the princes were obliged to be Jews .

    Vladimir from north ,attacked Crimea and destroyed Cherson and Sebastopol through siege and starvation and water pollution and tried to convert Crimean to Christianity .

    Source- The Crimea by Thomas Milner

    (Racially it was populated by Greek,Turkish and remnants of old Scythians who were related to Turkish and Mongol)
    Their power was broken in 10th century by the combined forces of Russian and Pichengues ( another Turkish steppe tribe. ) Later it merged in the empire of Western Tatary.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  14. By-tor [AKA "Jesse James"] says:

    While we are it, I would like the US government to leave parts of the continental US to be replaced with autonomous regional independence- but it will not, and the federal government killed 800,000 ( not counting freed slaves that perished ) from 1861-1865 to make the point.

  15. Rehmat says:

    If Daniel Pipes and Donald Trump has the rights to defend their co-religionists based on historic lies – why it irks you my defending my co-religionist based on historic truths?

    Who committed the so-called SIX MILLION DIED? Some say it was committed by Christians based on their religious hatred of Jews. Some say it was committed by Jews. But no one can blame Muslims for killing European Jews.

    Ironically, late Chief Rabbi of my Toronto city, Wolf Gunther Plaut has blamed Frankist Jews of committing the Holocaust.

    • Replies: @marwan
  16. @Singh

    I assume you’re the same poster as Kamran. I applaud your efforts at being a fair and balanced truth-telling representative of other cultures.

  17. @Dicentim

    Rehmat is simple. He’s a mentally adolescent Muslim supremacist. His cartoonish worldview posits Israel and the Jews as the first obstacle to overcome on the path to Risk-like world conquest. Western Europe follows, then America and Russia and Eastern Europe before India, Africa and China etc.

    Everything he posts is in support of that aim, although it badly betrays how immature and unworldly he actually is.

    it also confuses some readers whose prejudices in the instant happen to coincide.

  18. marwan says:

    No one is blaming ww2 on muslims , although the bosnian muslim ss and the mufti of jerusalem enthusiastically supported the nazi regime and their genocide and also were surely happy to kill jews when the opportunity arose .

    But the genocide of the Armenian christians by muslim turks (1915-1917 ) ( 2 million killed ) can be blamed on muslims .
    The genocide of South Sudanese christians by north sudanese arab muslim regime (1982-2011 ) ( 2 million killed ) can be blamed on muslims .
    The currently ongoing genocide of Papuan Christians by muslim indonesia ( 1963- Present day) ( 500,000 killed ) can be blamed on muslims .
    The current syrian civil war has claimed 300,000 lives . Both sides are muslim .

    Thats just a few examples and the number is already around 4 million .

    • Replies: @Avery
    , @KA
    , @KA
  19. @KA

    The clue that put me on to the fact that Arthur Koestler’s 13th Tribe nonsense was indeed nonsense was the improbability of Khazar people being the ancestors of people whose language was one of the German dialects. Then there was appearance. Amongst Ashkenazi Jews I came across there were perhaps 30 per cent who had physical features that would be best explained by western European ancestry – such as red side whiskers, even red hair on the head, and blue eyes.

    Interesting thought that there might have been as few as 350 in the Ashkenazi ancestral stock. Any other thoughts on that??

    • Replies: @KA
  20. @marwan

    See my #16 on the Khazar nonsense. As soon as I realised that it was Arther Koestler trying to counter anti-Semitism with the idea that (European) Jews weren’t really Semites who had propagated the nonsense that popped into my mind from a Blackwoods Magazine article I had read 30 years earlier I saw intuitively what would have happened at far flung trading posts of the Roman Empire in the West. Lonely young merchants would have been snared by the smarter local girls before the negotiations to bring a bride from the Middle East could get far.

    However, I have a quibble. Jews are no more a religion than a race. There are far too many atheist Jews who identify as Jews and may well be Zionist for religion to be the test.

    Call them a people, or even a tribe or community.

  21. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Natural resources – There is oil and coal in Xinjiang. Coal is rapidly diminishing in importance in China. Oil production in Xinjiang is in the north end of the province in Kazakh and Han inhabited regions. The center of Uighurs is in the southwest around Kashgar. That corner holds no promise of vast natural resources.

    Geopolitical advantage – Southwest Xinjiang is the gateway to Pakistan which gives China an alternative corridor to the sea for ensuring oil imports in a crisis with the US but this geopolitical need will probably disappear in the long term like the geopolitical necessity of Puerto Rico for naval power projection did for the US. However, even after the geopolitical necessity disappears, China will be on the hook for supporting welfare consumption by millions of Uighurs.

    Wisely, China should find it’s not a good long term bargain to keep all of Xinjiang.

  22. Avery says:

    {But the genocide of the Armenian christians by muslim turks (1915-1917 ) ( 2 million killed ) can be blamed on muslims .}

    The Genocide of Christians by Muslim Turks between 1915-1923 included Christian Assyrians and Christian Pontic Greeks: approximately 4 million total during that period alone.
    Armenians murdered by Turks is approximately 2 million between 1895-1923.
    Turks also committed a massacre of Alevi Kurds at Dersim 1938/39: up to 90,000 civilians murdered by Turks.

    Before Muslim nomad Seljuk Turks invaded Asia Minor around 1000AD, there were no Muslims in Asia Minor. Muslim Turks massacred, ethnically cleansed, forcibly Islamized, forcibly Trukified 10s of millions of Christians during several centuries of occupation of Christian lands by the savage Muslim Turkic nomads from Uyguristan.

    Christianity is about 600 years older than Islam.
    There were no Muslims in Middle East.
    Now indigenous Christians have all been wiped out.

    That’s just Muslims murdering Christians.

    Shia Muslims and Sunni Muslims have been murdering each other for centuries.
    (Shia mostly being at the receiving end of the oppression, death and destruction).
    Some years ago, Sunni led Iraq invaded Shia Iran: about 1 million Muslims killed at the hands of their fellow Muslims.

    Sunni Saudi Arabia, Sunni Qatar, and other Sunni gulf states are participating in the destruction of Muslim Syria and the murder of Syrian civilians.
    Sunni Turks (MIT) organized and supplied the Sarin gas for the mass murder of about 1,000 Syrian civilians at the hands of ISIS.
    Erdogan’s AKP goons organized two terror attacks against Kurds: about 200 peaceful young Kurds were murdered by Turks. 100s more maimed.

    The throat cutters and cannibals in Syria are all Muslims: their victims are Christians, Alawite Muslims, Sunni Muslims, (Muslim Arabs and Muslim Kurds), Yazidis.

  23. Art says:

    The third major finding [in the study] was about Turkey. It said we simply have to deal with the problem. The Turkish government, led by Erdogan, was—had opened—basically, his borders were open, arms were flying. I had written about that earlier for the London Review, the rat line. There were arms flying since 2012, covertly, with the CIA’s support and the support of the American government.

    Why in god’s name was Obama supporting Erdoğan and sending arms to ISIS?

    Whenever Washington does something that makes no real sense – Israel is the answer.

    Divided Muslim states, is the path to Jew greatness.

    The dark Jew Empire is not yet built – end of story – we all know it to be true.

  24. KA says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    350 or so going to Caspian Sea and becoming the leader of the Crimea sounds a lot like what have transpired before in Egypt,in UK,in USA. A few gather and take over the country and rule , over time they intermarry and spread if situation allows .
    This population genetic is not my forte . May be Razib Khan can throw some light . If you have something to cite or analyse,please feel free to do so.

    Israel was not the only state envisaged or even established by the Jewish diaspora. Southern France in 8 th century saw a Jewish enclave with own military ,foreign policy and trade policies known as Narbonne declare independence from Moor Spain and from pre – Pepin’s France . It was recognized by Baghdad empire ,by Moorish Span and by Catholic king of France. In less than 80 yrs it was gone ,defeated and merged with rest of Catholic France .

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @5371
  25. KA [AKA "Carthage"] says:

    Some genocide is better ignored because those ” some” are Muslim. Kazakistan lost 1/3 of its population from Czarist Russia . The numbers are no less scary when Caucasus , Krygisttan and Uzbekistan are looked into .
    Christian have a funny way of claiming the land as being mostly Christian . Only few are Christian in S Sudan,and W Papua . Guinea . Much fewer were in E Timor until rebel and Indonesian started fighting . The Christian started claiming they were fighting for their religion and the whole country .

    The Spanish killed bulk of pulsation in Phillipnes . They were Muslim. Russia destroyed and eliminated most of the Muslim population living in Crimea when Catherine sent her land hungry religious fanatic also known as Cossak. Crimea was Muslim before it was Russian orthodox .

    • Replies: @Avery
  26. Avery says:

    {Crimea was Muslim before it was Russian orthodox .}

    Crimea was conquered by Kievan Rus in mid-10th century.
    Kievan hold on Crimea was lost mid-13th century, after the invasion of Mongols.

    Crimea was Orthodox Christian long before it was Muslim.
    Turkic and Mongol hordes are from East Asia.
    Far, far, far away from Crimea.

    Turkic tribes are indigenous to Uyguristan.
    Mongols are indigenous to Mongolia.
    Rus are next door to Crimea.

  27. Art says:

    Problems with Muslims in China, problems in Russia, Indochina, Philippines, and India, problems all of the middle East, Africa, and in some parts of Europe. Problems problems problems.

    Let us single in on Arab Muslim countries. It is clear that these people are in no way democracy ready.

    What can we do, what should the West do? We can assimilate them, or kill then, or isolate them.

    So far assimilating them, is not working – they themselves do not want to assimilate. They want to take over wherever they are and install their own dictates. They do not respect the country’s norms that they are living within. Should we put up with their treatment of women and their family arrangements? Should we accept their ever more hardcore political isolation tendencies. Do we have no right to defend our society and our culture in our own country?

    There are 100 million Arabs – killing a 5 million or so is unacceptable – all out war is not an option..

    So we must protect our societies and cultures – and we can not kill our way to peace with these backwards people.

    The only rational choice for America and Europe is to isolate them. We must military disengage from the ME, country by country. All trade with them must be on a cash basis. Do debt – no loans – no investment. NO arms sales. If need be, we must accept their non-Muslim refugees. This embargo is an effort to bring these people into 21st century human norms. They must do it on their own, by their own volition.

    The Arab Muslims themselves leave us no option. This means no immigration. Of course there can be humanitarian exceptions.

    When a country turns democratic and observes basic human rights them the sanctions and immigration bans will be lifted.

    Of course this problem extends beyond Arab Muslims — and of course we can doubt that any of this will ever happen.

    p.s. This has NOTHING to do with hate – it is a rational bloodless humane alternative to our current ways.

    • Disagree: geokat62
  28. Avery says:

    Yes, of course.

    “Andre Vltchek is a philosopher, novelist, filmmaker and investigative journalist. ”

    We are to take the ramblings of an ‘investigative journalist’ as gospel truth, as it were.
    The ‘philosopher’ is a national of US: a Christian country.
    If he despises Christianity so much, he should become a national of Saudi Arabia.
    Then he can write an article for counterpunch: “Allahu Akbar: hundreds of millions crushed, exterminated, and forcibly Islamized by the Mohammedan crescent”.

    We @UNZ will then run a wager of how many hours after his article is published by, will Andre Vltchek, a philosopher, novelist, filmmaker and investigative journalist, be taken out onto a public square in Riyadh and be beheaded.

  29. @KA

    Interesting to learn of the 8th century enclave in what is now France. I wonder if I missed it years ago in reading (most of) Paul Johnson’s History of the Jews. Must follow up.

    BTW I think that 350 figure was given as the foundation population of Ashkenazim, nothing to do with Crimea or Caspian, and it struck me as a bit small.

    We do tend to overestimate past populations. The small numbers and lack of mobility of many are important to understanding quite a lot about group similarities. Eastern European Jews aren’t by any means the only people to be frequently recognisable by a limited range of visible differences. Koreans are another.

  30. 5371 says:

    [Southern France in 8 th century saw a Jewish enclave with own military ,foreign policy and trade policies known as Narbonne declare independence from Moor Spain and from pre – Pepin’s France . It was recognized by Baghdad empire ,by Moorish Span and by Catholic king of France.]

    Whence did you get this bizarre fantasy? Dan Brown?

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Igor
  31. utu says:

    Jewish Kindgom of Septimania

    ” It was quite large, encompassing the major cities of Narbonne, Toulouse, and Carcassonne, and it did a lot more than merely exist. It played a major role in the history of medieval France.”

    • Replies: @5371
    , @Art
  32. 5371 says:

    You have found a source with even less credibility than Dan Brown. Congratulations.

  33. bunga says:

    Since April of 2015, the Republic of Burundi has been beset by a violent protest movement organised by NGOs financed by the United States and the European Union. These so-called ‘civil society’ organisations have engaged in mass murder, arson, and sabotage in a concerted attempt to spread anarchy in the country on behalf of neocolonial interests.

    The unipolar, US-led global order is facing its most difficult challenge since the fall of the Berlin wall, most notably from Russia and China. This competition is currently most harrowing in Syria, but it is also playing out in the tiny but geostrategic East African nation of Burundi. Burundi borders Rwanda to the north, Tanzania to the east, and the hugely resource rich Democratic Republic of Congo to the west.

    Another adventure in mayhem and plunder.

  34. Priss Factor [AKA "The Priss Factory"] says: • Website

    Peter Flea you nut cuz you Chinee not see big picture.

    Chinee pick small squabble and get all personal and go blind.

    Chinee lose big fish cuz it go for small fish. Chinee smart but stupid. Not wise.

    Chinee mess up by alienate Japan. If Chinee not make anti-Japan rage as basis for new nationalism, relation between Chiner and Japan much better, and then it much more hard for US to play Japan vs Chiner. But Chinee no see big picture. Chiner lose Japan for good to US. If Chiner play nice, Japan now much closer to Chiner and new age begin in East.

    Also, Chiner pick silly fight with Philippine and Vietnam. Instead of say, ‘we all brothers and share in sea and stuff’, Chinee get all antsy and say ‘this all ours’. Awful stupid.

    If Chinee have sense, they look into future. Just look at geography. Chiner big, other nations small. So, even if Chiner do little or nothing, it still biggest power in Asia. As time go by, it grow more powerful. So, if Chinee see big fish, it not make enemy with all Asian nations by going for small fish.

    But Chiner act petty, so it make enemy of Japan, Vietnam, Philippines. Even Burma move away from Chiner cuz it see Chiner act big and nasty.

    Now, looky at British. After a while, British see big picture. It figure, “okay, instead of fighting French all the time, how about we and French make a deal where they get some, and we get some, and everyone happy?”

    But Chinee too petty to see such big picture. So, it alienate and scare all its neighbor.

    Chinee should approach rest of Asia like it do with Russia. Now, Chiner and Russer have disagreement on many small issue, but both put that aside for bigger goal of help each other out. Get big fish, lose small fish.
    But in Asia, China go for little fish and lose big fish. It make rest of Asia fear and hate Chiner. That so dumb. Why Chinee so dumb, Peter Flea?

    Chinee so short-sighted. When British come in 19th century, Chinee could have been smart. Chinee could have said, ‘looky, British foreign devil got good stuff in science and technology, and there so much we can learn by do trade and travel.’
    If Chinee see big picture, they rise fast like new Japan and become a new great power.
    But Chinee not see big picture. They just see little picture and ignore world. So, British come with ships and win war and humiliate Chinee.

    So much could have been different if Chinee in 19th century see big fish than little fish.

    But Chinee mind still the same today. Though Chiner much modernize and more powerful, Chinee thinking still into little fish thinking. It not see big fish. If Chiner make good friend with rest of Asia, as time pass, it better for Chiner cuz other nation trust Chiner and work with Chiner and share the sea. But Chiner say, ‘this all mine’, so small asian nation call on uncle sam and say ‘help us against big bad chink’.

    Chinee so stupid.

    • Replies: @Rdm
  35. Jason Liu says:

    Peter, there’s an angle that you’re missing here. The reporter herself should be examined critically.

    This Gauthier is apparently part of the French New Left, someone who probably would blame the massacre in Paris on the oppression of Muslims by the ethnic French. It’s no surprise that she would attempt the same thing in China. She’s the kind of person who believes minorities deserve equal power and consideration as majorities. She is essentially a product of liberal democracy, not rationalism. So it’s more likely her writings were ideologically motivated, anything else is just a sideshow.

  36. Igor says:

    Jewish Princedom in Feudal France, 768-900 (Study in Jewish History) Hardcover – February 1, 1972
    Arthur Zuckerman

    • Replies: @5371
  37. Art says:

    “Jewish Kindgom of Septimania”

    Correction: Short term Jewish Kindgom of Septimania

    What is wrong with the Jew – nothing lasts – bet it imploded – was its king named Bibi?

  38. Eustace Tilley (not) [AKA "Schiller/Nietzsche"] says:
    @Priss Factor

    From The Newspeak Dictionary, 1949 Edition, Eastasia Publishing House, Beijing:

    1. Xinjiang Autonomous Region (proper noun). The Xinjiang Non-Autonomous Region; The Uighur Non-Autonomous Region; Occupied East Turkestan. That region of Central Asia which is the traditional home of ethnic Turkish peoples under military occupation by Eastasia.

    (Cf. Tibetan Autonomous Region.)

  39. Rdm says:
    @Priss Factor

    Prissy, you might think it’s funny to read your post in Chinese accent.

    Whatever makes you feel worth doing so is your business.

    But it indeed sabotages your comment, be it well worth a read or diarrheal post.

  40. denk says:

    piss factory is inhuman, its a spam bot.
    how do i know ?
    it keep spewing the same craps in every thread, it wouldnt ans my
    challenge. yet it’d appear in a new thread and repeat the same bs again, even after it had been shot down to pieces.
    such is the unitedsnake’s tactics these days, its really scrapping the bottom now, pathetic.

  41. 5371 says:

    Classified under fiction, I hope. In a few days I will be able to consult this masterpiece, if a very large library bothered to acquire it. I expect belly laughs. Will report them here, if you are interested.

    • Replies: @5371
  42. denk says:

    there aint no tail wagging the dog biz, sorry.
    whether its israel in m.e., jp in scs or turkey in euasia.
    this is all dog n pony show babe.
    it has always been the unitedsnake, the puppet master leading from behind, running the show all the way.
    i also dont buy the crap about these pentagoon careerists revolting against their paymaster, no way.
    the guy prolly has a lockheed martin vice prez seat waiting for him already.

  43. bunga says:

    The Jews of East Central Europe Between the World Wars (A Midland Book)May 1983by Ezra Mendelsohn

    This book tells teh effort to establish a Jewish state in Europe and also the successful establsihment of a Jewish political entity in Poland before 1930. It refers to the era after successful territorial integrity of Poland were establsihed, attenmpts by Jeiwsh parties to subvert the nation with Marixsm and communism to protect their interest .

    It talks of “getting international help ” to force Lithumia to allow what teh Jewish parties were demanding

    It refers to the “antisemtic “political figure of Poland who forecast that Jewish were trying to establish state in Palestine to consolidtae their monetary and fiannacial power over the rest by using a new country either in Palestine or in Europe.

    • Replies: @RobinG
  44. RobinG says:

    There’s a detailed customer review at Amazon.

    The Jews of East Central Europe between the World Wars
    by Ezra Mendelsohn

    • Replies: @foolisholdman
  45. @Svigor

    There is no evidence that the US “Fomented the trouble in Ukraine.” The Ukrainians did that themselves, and Putin needed no encouragement to engage in his thuggish behavior relative to Ukraine.

    • Replies: @RobinG
  46. RobinG says:

    …evidence that the US “Fomented the trouble in Ukraine.”

    “Fuck the EU!” (original File) – Victoria Nuland phoning with Geoffrey Pyatt

    Guardian report-

    Victoria Nuland’s Admits Washington Has Spent \$5 Billion to “Subvert Ukraine”

    Q., wake up and have a cookie.

  47. 5371 says:

    I have now consulted said work. I must have missed the chorus calling for my review, but here it is anyway.
    It is every bit as bad as I had expected. The author seems an amiable soul but is quite out of his depth. He has absolutely no idea of historical method or of basic facts about the documents he relies on. His Jewish princedoms have no more reality than the realms of those feudal potentates Duke Ellington and Count Basie. Not even the author of the introduction, who shares his ethnicity but seems a more competent scholar, can bring himself to write a word implying that these bizarre constructions might be true; (over-generous) praise for ingenuity is all he can offer.
    It’s depressing that as long ago as 1972 a respectable firm like Columbia UP could publish this farrago. How much more depressing, though, to see countless sources on the internet and several commenters in this thread now regurgitate the swill as though it was precious drops of historical truth. O tempora, o mores.

  48. I do not see IQ having any equivalence when referencing human right violations, cultural hegemony and misappropriation,, etc in the context of public policy towards a people. Theft of natural resources in a folk well versed in the commonality of colonialist disregard for those who possess said resources is a reality and that must be blocked! Any and all people should rise up to protect their interest by any means necessary in defense of their homeland (despite being under the control of Beijing, in this case) or that they be compensated for the material stolen from their natural sources/location/region.

  49. @anonymous

    China should allow the southwestern part of Xinjiang centered around Kashgar (which is 95% Uighur) to become its own independent country for Uighurs.
    Uighurs likely have an IQ of 85 or lower. Therefore they will always economically and academically underperform compared to the rest of the country and be a drain on resources for China. Like in Puerto Rico, the rest of China will need to transfer billions of dollars every year to Uighurs in Xinjiang to buy stability.
    There’s not much benefit to China to paying billions of dollars every year for the loyalty of a Turkic ethnic group that has a low average IQ. Perhaps a middle class dominant developed China will see the folly of maintaining a country with the Uighurs.

    Well, I can think of one potential benefit of not having an independent country situated where Xinjiang is: How long do you imagine it would be before the “independent” East Turkestan would have a US military base? (Or three or thirty?)

  50. @RobinG

    There is, of course always this:

    Article 65 of the Constitution of Russia provides that the JAO (Jewish Autonomous Oblast) is Russia’s only autonomous oblast. It is one of two official Jewish territories in the world, the other being Israel.

    I wonder why the Jews don’t seem to want to go there? There are no Palestinians there to persecute them.

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