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Afterthoughts on the Lowering of the Confederate Battle Flag in Columbia
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Yesterday afternoon I heard a black civic leader in Columbia, South Carolina being interviewed about the just completed removal of the Confederate Battle Flag from the statehouse grounds. The lady from FOX who did the interview wanted to know about the satisfaction experienced by the black leader in light of the events that had just unfolded. Her interviewee expressed his elation and mentioned the “unbelievable joy” that overwhelmed the black crowd that gathered to see the hated flag come down. “We all hugged each other,” he explained. “We would no longer have to look at it.” This negative reaction to the flag was also expressed by black legislators during the deliberations in the South Carolina senate. The listener was made to believe that American blacks were enduring a continuing nightmare that had created severe emotional problems. It seems this neurasthenia would go on until the hated cloth was dragged down, not only in South Carolina but everywhere else it was displayed. Presumably black crime and social dysfunctionality would also plummet, as all traumatizing symbols of the Confederacy were antiseptically purged.

This black reaction seems to have been totally scripted; and I have no reason to believe that blacks are sickened by the sight of the Battle Flag wherever it’s exhibited. They are engaging in the ritual of being aggrieved. Like other designated victim minorities, including my fellow-Jews, they are full of righteous indignation about past discrimination and symbols of their oppression, whenever the outsider brings up the subject. But 40% of South Carolina blacks in a recent poll cited by Jonah Goldberg registered no objection to seeing the Battle Flag flying from the statehouse grounds; and several years ago, whites and blacks voted in Mississippi to retain the state flag, which contains a Confederate Battle Flag design. In Mississippi GOP leaders tried to dump the state flag.

The most interesting aspect of the war against Confederate symbols is not its predictable backing from black activist groups or the leftist media or members of the Rainbow Coalition. Those are the sources of support one would expect to find in this campaign. Far more striking is the overwhelming, effusive help that is coming from elements of what is imagined to be the conservative movement. Whether we look at the Murdoch media, listen to Republican office-holders throughout the South, or read statements prepared for our capitalist CEOs, the message is hardly different from that of black civil rights activists and organizational heads. Not at all surprising is the evidence of the usual Republican game of triangulating, which takes the form of doing anything to win groups on the left while assuming that what there is of a Right will stay with the GOP. Unfortunately, this game has done very well among Southern whites, who continue to vote overwhelmingly for any so-called moderate the party throws at them, whether McCain, W, or Lindsey Graham.

Among neoconservatives, the repugnance for Southern white society and culture has long been evident, and it seems that one encounters escalating effusions of hate from neoconservative celebrities that were it directed against their own ethnicity would evoke understandable outrage. Just the other day the latest neocon candidate for the title “hating Southerners the most” Jeff Jacoby ranted in all the usual venues of conservatism, inc. that the Battle Flag banner “is the emblem of the most poisonous ideologies in our national history.” Jacoby fulminated against “the hatefulness of the proposition” for which Southern soldiers “were prepared to kill or be killed.” One wonders whether authorized “conservative” sources would publish the invective of a Palestinian whose family had been expelled from their land by Israeli soldiers if he offered a similar rant against the Israeli flag. Just wondering!

What has struck me perhaps the most about this dispute over Confederate symbols is how Republican governors and congressmen have been acting throughout the American South. They have been frenetically dumping on the symbols of their ancestors’ heroism, which they regard as an offense against the black race. Somehow I doubt any of this self-rejection will cost Southern politicians their positions. Opposition to their actions has not been as vocal as one might have expected. While the Left held large demonstrations against the Battle Flag and the retention of the names of Confederate heroes on Southern streets and Southern monuments, the defenders of the Southern heritage were far less visible on the streets. Despite the valiant efforts of my friend Richard Hines and his daughter Kathleen to mobilize resistance against the anti-Southern Left in South Carolina, their efforts have not yielded promising results. Politicians have gone with the media flow and avoided any visible celebration of Jeff Jacoby’s object of hate. It was also instructive to hear white Republicans in the South Carolina Senate apologizing to irate blacks for not having voted to remove the flag sooner. I could not even imagine Japanese, Jews, blacks or members of any one of a multitude of other ethnic groups behaving with such obsequiousness toward those who scorn them and their ancestors. Why the Southern whites have been reduced to this undignified posture is a question that warrants investigation.


Close Southern friends of mine, including the historian Boyd Cathey and the former federal judge Samuel Currin in North Carolina and Professor Clyde Wilson in South Carolina, blame this unsettling change in their region on the corrupting influence of the Republican Party. Once Southerners switched in the 1960s from the Dixiecrat wing of the Democratic Party (which had lost any standing among the national Democrats) to the GOP, they joined a party over which they had little long-term control. The Republicans felt free to spurn the Southern white heritage, and their propagandists could even spew hatred on it while appealing to the party’s Northern base and while trying to expand its appeal among racial minorities. Moreover, Southern whites went along with the GOP, no matter how often it attacked Confederate icons and symbols and no matter how often it placed Southern districts under prolonged federal supervision because of the evidence of low black voter turnout in the South before the civil rights revolution. All the same, Southern whites did get one big prize from the Republican command, military bases and military operations from which their region has benefited disproportionately. They were also given the opportunity to vent their proverbial bellicosity, which was conspicuous by its absence during the Battle Flag crisis, by volunteering to kill the enemies of “American democracy.”

Although I shall readily concede that white Southerners made a Devil’s pact with the GOP, it seems that something more may be at work in what has occurred in the white South. Like other parts of the country, the South has been exposed to the media, public education, and popular culture, all forces that tilt strongly toward the left. And while these vehicles of indoctrination treat some groups as noble victims, Southern whites are not among them. More typically Southern whites, especially before the present era, are depicted as stupid bigots and religious fanatics, and certainly not shown in a way that the young would want to identify with.

I would also assume that like other predominantly Northern European Protestant societies analyzed in my books, Southern whites are wracked by social guilt that political, religious and cultural elites have all contributed to instilling. It is unlikely that those Republicans I saw bowing and scraping before hostile blacks were simply looking out for their political careers. They seemed anguished by the disfavor shown by a group they were supposed to have victimized, the way George W. Bush was when he was attacked by a black Democrat as a racist. When such a usually stalwart figure of the Right as Senator Jeff Sessions of Alabama laments that the Battle Flag had been “commandeered for anti-civil rights”; and that though a revered ancestor of his fell at Antietam fighting for the Southern cause, he is conflicted by the issue before the South Carolina senate, I have no reason to think Sessions is triangulating. Even traditional Southerner have been made to feel ashamed of their politically incorrect past.

On another topic, allow me to note that I think the battle over the Battle Flag has nothing to do with hating blacks and perhaps increasingly less to do with the War Between the States (which is misleadingly designated in the US as a “civil war.”) It has become a symbol of rebellion against an overreaching, highly centralized managerial regime, and it was not by accident that those protesting Soviet control in the 1980s waved the Confederate Battle Flag in public demonstrations. This banner no more indicates a predilection for black bondage than the appearance a few years ago of the Cathar flag in Toulouse and other cities in Languedoc signified the reemergence of the gnostic heresy that once swept southwestern France. This heresy, which treats physical desire, including procreation, as totally evil, led to a crusade against the Cathars (or Albigensians) in the twelfth century, in which many in their region were slaughtered. Curiously the celebration of the Cathars (that is, those who are cleansed in Greek) has now spread to gay and lesbian groups, since the adherents of this strange cult considered procreative sex between men and women to be particularly loathsome. Flags assume changing meanings as historical circumstances undergo change.

I must also question whether the American flag, which the KKK happily waved for many decades and carried in a mass parade in Washington, D.C. in 1925, will be pulled down next. Unless I’m mistaken, it seems that the large Klan representations produced by such states as Indiana and New Jersey typically featured the Union flag, not the Battle Flag. But this is all rather academic. The ruling class has too much invested in the American national flag, which is now intertwined with such interests as aggressive liberal internationalism, the civil rights movement, and the reign of our first black and certainly most leftist American president, to give up the national banner. Old Glory is here to stay, no matter how loudly some defenders of the Battle Flag have been warning us that the American flag is next on the hit list. If the establishment decides to go after another offensive symbol, it may be a Christian cross, perhaps on the Maryland state flag. Although Southern white Christians may have pride of place in the media rogues’ gallery, devout Christians are not far behind.

• Category: Ideology • Tags: Confederate Flag, Republicans 
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  1. “Unfortunately, this game has done very well among Southern whites, who continue to vote overwhelmingly for any so-called moderate the party throws at them, whether McCain, W, or Lindsey Graham.”

    To be fair, Lindsey Graham is in a district that has quite a few non-Southerners in it, and John McCain didn’t exactly set the electorate on fire. If anything, the problem is that nobody wants to represent white Southerners, and it’s well understood that Democrats hate us far more than Republicans, who at least say they don’t when campaigning..

    • Replies: @William BadWhite
  2. Maj. Kong says:

    I feel that the spirit of our people has been broken. Just as it was broken in 1918 in Western Europe.

    If the white southern conservative has internalized ‘white guilt’, Reconstruction has succeeded. No longer the South, but simply Greater Massachusetts.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  3. War for Blair Mountain [AKA "Great Battle for Blair Mountain"] says:

    The power of the Democratic Party is a direct consequence of the passage of the 1965 Immigration Reform Act. Southern Native Born White Americans are being out-voted by the highly racialized high fertility post-1965 imported Democratic Party Voting Bloc-and its nonwhite “American” born geneline.

    The Democratic Party is waging an over-the-top open race war against Southern Native Born White Americans and Native Born White Americans in general.


  4. A perceptive article by Professor Gottfried, as usual. As a Northern ethnic, I am bemused by the Southern bellicosity he points out. It seems that a kind of Stockholm Syndrome has been at work, whereby Southerners identify with their oppressors, and keep giving their enthusiastic support to the warmongers in Washington. Before the Second World War, for instance, the South was the only region that lacked a chapter of the America First Committee. White Southerners disproportionately volunteer for every overseas aggression the Feds decide on. It’s sad, really, and pathetic.

    • Replies: @Neoconned
    , @OilcanFloyd
  5. Christian piety is at the root of the Southern malaise. Liberals have been working on Southern Protestant consciences for a long time, and their work has borne fruit. Foolish, foolish Christians. And people still doubt Gibbon’s thesis that Christianity was the main culprit in dragging down the Roman Empire. Doubt no more!

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    , @Seraphim
  6. Neoconned [AKA "Truth is treason"] says:
    @Ralph Raico

    Florence King wrote about that bizarre phenomenon a number of times. I wonder if it has to do with the high percentage of Scots Irish blood in the South compared to the rest of the nation? Or being the only people in the U.S. to have been invaded and occupied by a foreign military?

    Agreed either way though – another outstanding article by Gottfried.

    • Replies: @Crawfurdmuir
  7. Ralph Raico’s observation is brilliant. Somehow Southerners have been made to identify so strongly with their conspicuous detractors that they happily fight and die in the wars declared by those who despise them. The only comparison that comes to mind is how Angela Merkel went to Russia to thank the Red Army for “liberating us from fascism.” The “liberation” consisted in having Russian soldiers rape and pillage their way across Eastern Europe and impose a foreign dictatorship on their subjects.

    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
  8. @paul gottfried

    Wasn’t Angela Merkel a leader in the Komsomol, or whatever they called the group in East Germany? She literally was brainwashed. It’s odd that someone with her past would rise to power in the West. Makes you wonder who was the victor.

    • Replies: @Sean
    , @SFG
  9. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    In the 19th Century Northerners as well as Southerners believed in white supremacy. Lincoln wanted blacks to leave the USA and colonise Latin America or Africa. President Garfield a Republican said he had a “strong feeling of repugnance when I think of the negro being made our political equal and I would be glad if they could be colonized, sent to heaven, or got rid of in any decent way. . . .” Theodore Roosevelt another Republican said “I have not been able to think out any solution to the terrible problem offered by the presence of the Negro on this continent . . . he is here and can neither be killed nor driven away. . . .”

    What certainly perished in this dreadful war was the idea of the original USA with a weak central government, strong states, diffused power and social cohesion. I suppose Switzerland is the one country that lives up to some extent to republican ideals.

  10. @Ralph Raico

    “White Southerners disproportionately volunteer for every overseas aggression the Feds decide on. It’s sad, really, and pathetic.”

    Do you know the current percentage of white Southerners who volunteer for overseas aggression? Midwesterners make up a large percentage of the soldiers that I meet from the local base, and Ohioans a good number of those. I often see Puerto Rican and other non-U.S. flags and stickers on the cars of local servicemen. Locally, black kids also seem to be going in for the military, but not necessarily to fight.

    At least he vets in my family told me to stay away from the military, since I had the choice. In my family and circle, I was told by people who served to stay away from the military or leave the country if called to war, and I come from a military family.

    • Replies: @joe webb
  11. Sean says:

    The Southern tradition is one that accepts the authority of the USA. The South contributed the lion’s share of the infantry (ie most of those killed in action) in the European theater during WW2. One serious difference between the South and Germany is Germany is virtually pacifist now. I think Merkel is an example of how much more seriously women’s view of politics is taken in Europe. Don’t forget that black men had full rights generations before women (black or white) did.

    Merkel has explicitly said that if the EU fails it will lead to another European war. Women want to believe there are no conflicts of interest and anything that marks off populations of generic humanity from one another is the cause of wars. So all symbols of rival groups have to go. It is starting with the symbols of recalcitrance within nations, but will move on to the symbols of the nations themselves.

  12. joe webb says:

    I suppose that one could do a list of films largely produced by Jews that run down the South.

    First there is To Kill a Mockingbird, a lie of the First Order, and rammed down our kids throats in just about every school, along with Diary/Ann Frank.

    There is a book in this material.

    Think just for the moment, of Deliverance, where a couple of White Southern Pigs are presented as representing the South, and Deliverance, more of less is delivered by Burt Reynolds the actor as he delivers an arrow thru the chest of one of the perverts (recruited as I recall from a southern jail to just be themselves in the acting charades).

    This is just one of the crimes of the Jews against Whites, one of myriad crimes against us.

    Joe Webb

    • Replies: @Pure and Easy
  13. I would find this issue comical except for the tragedy that spurred this newest fit of banal “victimology”.
    The leftists and their enablers on the right are making pratfalls in their rush to claim ground on their “intolerance of tolerance” for a symbol of rebellion against a govt. that would deny their right to succession.
    Had the murderer worn a Che’ Guevara T shirt on his Facebook page, would we be seeing this foaming mouth rage to ban his visage? I hardly think so.

    This is merely the expression, typically devoid of substance, that the leftists favor, that if you attack a symbol, that by some mystical alchemy yet unknown, then you are somehow solving the root cause of the problem. A Confederate flag didn’t push this kid’s hatred into mental illness and the result, but by making a symbolic act against a symbol (hence the comedic element) they can feel as if they are doing something “constructive” without having to recognize or address the true underlying issue of mental illness.

    The problem with only picking the low hanging fruit is that you are constantly looking for new trees to harvest. The cult of finding victims of oppression so they can slay the oppressors to give meaning and add value to their lives is a type of religion that substitute sin and the Devil, of the more traditional roles of spiritual warfare, against evil.

    This exorcism of the Confederate flag has much the same dubious merit as the hyperactive tent revival minister’s version.
    The difference being that the minister has the possibility of effecting a cure, however remote, while damning a piece of cloth has none.

  14. Southerners never quit viewing themselves as Americans. The disagreement was always about who was carrying on the traditions of the Founders.

    Up until Vietnam, who had much of a choice but to fight when drafted? I’m just not sure about the numbers now. At least from the military bases I’ve been around, I see lots of Midwesterners, blacks, Latinos and other foreigners. I think most people who join the military do so for the benefits, training/education and travel. At least those are the things that the recruiters emphasize. I’ve sat in on recruiting sessions at high school job fairs, and rah rah patriotism isn’t the approach that is used.

    I don’t have any more faith in female politicians than I do in their male counterparts. Actually, I have less, since most female politicians are crazy ideologues with chips on their shoulders. They are no more likely to usher in a golden age of peace and prosperity than non-white politicians in the West.

  15. J1234 says:

    Among neoconservatives, the repugnance for Southern white society and culture has long been evident….

    Remember W’s persecution of Trent Lott after a very innocuous off-handed remark meant as nothing more than a platitude for an elderly Strom Thurmond? Lott was the one of the first who took the South from the Democrats and gave it to the Republicans, and that’s how he was paid back. Neocons are the worst perpetrators of political correctness, as they can more easily avoid being stigmatized as the originators (and abusers) of it.

    Ultimately, however, this is an issue between the people of the South and their elected 0fficials, and I’m not a southerner. If white southerners don’t have the courage to stand up for their heritage or the gumption to stand up to their governors, well, that’s their problem…or their right, I guess.

    On a surface level, nobody’s outlawing the flag, just taking it down from a dozen or so locations. On the other hand, when you’re dealing with cultural Marxism, we know where this could possibly lead in a generation or two; displaying the rebel flag will be the same as yelling NlGGER over a loudspeaker for hours on end. Nationwide banning efforts are a real possibility. No political move or action is a final destination for cultural Marxists. It’s a stepping stone to somewhere else.

  16. @Neoconned

    “I wonder if it has to do with the high percentage of Scots Irish blood in the South compared to the rest of the nation? Or being the only people in the U.S. to have been invaded and occupied by a foreign military?”

    There may be a parallel to this in the experience of Scots after the rising of 1745. Once the Jacobite forces were defeated, Scotland underwent a sort of “reconstruction” – the wearing of highland dress was forbidden under the Dress Act of 1746, the clan chiefs and feudal barons were deprived of their ancient rights under the Heritable Jurisdictions Act of 1746, and Scotland placed under a Whig government.

    Yet at the same time the English began actively recruiting Scots as soldiers. The Secretary of War told the Westminster parliament in 1751: “I am for having always in our army as many Scottish soldiers as possible…because they are generally more hardy and less mutinous.” Scots like Major Patrick Ferguson (killed at the battle of King’s Mountain) served George III with ruthless enthusiasm against the American revolutionaries. In 1782, the duke of Montrose obtained the repeal of the Dress Act of 1746, and by the 19th century, Scots commanders and Highland regiments clad in kilts enlarged the British Empire for Queen Victoria.

    A similar sort of reconciliation between the American South and the Union that had crushed it took place at the time of the Spanish-American War, when old Confederate generals like Joseph Wheeler and Fitzhugh Lee were given commands. The South had by that time been “redeemed” from Reconstruction, and was represented in Congress by firmly-entrenched and very senior Democrats, who secured military bases for their states and districts, guaranteeing a regular flow of Federal money. Southerners flocked to the U.S. armed forces, and continue to do so, just as Scots did and do to the Royal Army.

    • Replies: @David In TN
  17. @Crawfurdmuir

    Tennesseans (The Volunteer State) always have joined up far out of proportion. Before the War Between the States, Tennesseans were very pro-union. In 1861, we were the last state to secede and only did so because the federals were going to invade.

    Afterward, Tennessee was the first Confederate state to rejoin the union and again became “pro-union” and the most inclined to fight for America.

    By the way, at Shiloh (Ralph Raico take note) my great-grandfather found himself fighting in his home state against men who didn’t speak English. They were a Wisconsin regiment made up of Germans. These weren’t the later German mercenaries Lincoln hired from Europe, but U.S. residents from Wisconsin.

    The typical neocon understands none of this, nor does he want to.

    • Replies: @Malcolm
  18. Realist says:

    “The Republicans felt free to spurn the Southern white heritage, and their propagandists could even spew hatred on it while appealing to the party’s Northern base and while trying to expand its appeal among racial minorities.”

    Without idiots the Republican party would be nothing. But of course the same could be said of the Democrats.

  19. joe webb says:

    Here is a need for a little history. The South was largely settled by Scots/Irish who brought with them their warrior traditions.

    A must read book on our history is Albion’s Seed, by Fisher. He describes the 4 ethnic/social groups from England, etc. that emigrated to the US. Amazing book. He sharply criticizes Jewish historiography on the US (nation of immigrants…just Culture, etc) and pointedly remarks that the word “seed” means exactly what you might think…genetics.

    The South got the last immigrant wave, Scots-Irish thru the Cumberland gap and into Kentucky and Tennessee , etc and south.

    These folks are tough military types. The lies of the Jews and Liberals about Southerners never stop. The Jew/LIb strategy in divide and conquer whites.

    Joe Webb

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  20. @Epaminondas

    Christian piety is at the root of the Southern malaise.

    When given a choice between a Christian (Eisenhower) and a Unitarian (Stevenson), the South went resoundingly for the UU guy. Twice! Though not as resoundingly as earlier– in 1952, Eisenhower got more votes in South Carolina than every other Republican before him combined.

  21. @joe webb

    The lies of the Jews and Liberals about Southerners never stop.

    Sure they do. When the South goes Democratic. The Dixie-bashing cooled off in 1976 and 1992.

    Call me cynical, but that’s what this is all about. I refuse to take the other side in good faith.

    New York Jews’ biggest complaint about FDR is that he never challenged the South on anything. Still, they challenged Dixiecrats for the title of his most loyal supporters. No fickle Mick or Midwest Hun were they.

  22. @Maj. Kong

    No longer the South, but simply Greater Massachusetts.

    Massachusetts hasn’t been Massachusetts since at least 1928, when the Commonwealth gave her electors to Al Smith. (Nothing against Smith, the last normal human being nominated by his party, but what was wrong with Hoover?)

    Democrats captured the Bay State long before the GOP got the Palmetto.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
  23. joe webb says:

    one other thing, it is easy to laugh at the southerners’ flag waving and war-fighting, but they will be at the frontline of the counter-revolution when it starts.

    Joe Webb

  24. @OilcanFloyd

    “To be fair, Lindsey Graham is in a district that has quite a few non-Southerners in it,”

    Lindsey Graham is a U.S. Senator. He doesn’t have a district. He represents the entire state of South Carolina.

    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
  25. I must also question whether the American flag… will be pulled down next.

    More suspicious than the Stars and Stripes is the Democratic donkey, a beast with a shiny coat of Teflon.

    How is this party not the moral equivalent of the Communists and the National Socialists? The latter is banned in its homeland, and our counterpart should get the same treatment here. RICO would be a good start.

    it may be a Christian cross, perhaps on the Maryland state flag

    Maryland has two, but Hawaii has three. Those states are safely in the D column, so they’ll probably be left alone.

    Jeff Jacoby’s object of hate

    Most here will see the names Jeff Jacoby and Jennifer Rubin and focus on their surnames. But I can’t get past the given names “Jeff” and “Jennifer”, medieval monikers which came back as fads in the ’50s and ’70s. Fad names, no matter how august their heritage, almost always are a sign of shallow parents.

    “Jeffrey”, by the way, derives from “Gottfried”.

  26. SFG says:

    More to do with German thoughts on how fascism is the Worst Thing Ever, I think.

    I have to say, it probably does make sense for the Germans to distance themselves from Hitler. He didn’t just kill Jews–every European country bordering Germany has some story about what the Nazis did while they were there. Even if they were no worse than the Commies, nobody wants to see a division of 10,000 German soldiers coming over their border again…same reason Poland’s terrified of Putin.

  27. “Close Southern friends of mine, including the historian Boyd Cathey and the former federal judge Samuel Currin in North Carolina and Professor Clyde Wilson in South Carolina, blame this unsettling change in their region on the corrupting influence of the Republican Party.”

    I see what they are saying, but what are they suggesting as an alternative? That conservatives should have stayed in the Democrat Party and battled it out with liberals in the primary? Or that we should have made a serious attempt to form a third party?

  28. Hibernian says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    The spiritual descendants of the old Yankee republicans (Weld, Romney) and those of Smith and other Northern Urban Democrats of the pre WW2 era (the Kennedys, Billy Bulger, etc.) are culturally markedly different, but they are united in their statist goals.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  29. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    In reading many conservatives on this topic, I wonder if there is a psychological move going on, whereby social conservatives who have opposed the gay rights movement (and been the subject of abuse for their views) feel the need to compensate for this by going full-tilt in their drive to remove Confederate symbols. Especially since what is called “modern conservatism” is in love with power, above all else.

  30. All my good Southern friends share my hope of establishing a party on the right that is as principled in its conservatism as the Democrats are in pursuing leftist goals and the Republicans in accommodating the neoconservatives. All of us have totally given up on the GOP, as a party that has no serious interest in our side.

    • Replies: @D. K.
  31. @joe webb

    To kill a mockingbird is a work of fiction, therefore cannot be a lie. The praise it receives is well deserved.

    Diary of Anne Frank is an autobiography of a young girl prior to be being murdered. She was Jewish and she was killed because she was Jewish.

    Deliverance was a novel written by a southerner before it was a movie.

    I see no crimes committed by Jewish people in any of these instances.

    One of many clown postings by this person.

  32. Seraphim says:

    Christian piety WASP style has very little, if at all, to do with the Christianity of the Roman Empire. Neither did the Christianity of Gibbon.

  33. D. K. says:
    @paul gottfried

    As a paleoliberal nationalist, Dr. Gottfried, I think that what this nation really needs, post haste, is an all-inclusive counter-revolutionary party, monomaniacally dedicted to the National Question, with an understanding that the old-fashion liberal-conservative arguments all will become moot, if the country becomes a majority non-European one, as predicted, barely a generation from now. If the United States becomes a de facto one-party state, perhaps within two more generations, the game will be all over– barring either a peaceful dissolution of the Union, or a bloody revolution! According to the current demographic arc, this could become a majority-Hispanic country, within the next two generations, and perhaps even a majority-Mexican country, before the end of this young century. It is inconceivable to me that the United States of America actually could survive that future intact, as even a titular nation-state, let alone as a plausible republic.

  34. Mark Caplan says: • Website

    From my Northerner perspective, I hear Southerners saying they are proud of the Confederate Battle Flag and their Southern heritage, yet they repudiate everything the flag and their ancestors stood for. The flag stood for white dominance over the only alternative, which is black dominance. Racial equality is unlikely to happen in this world or the Next.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    , @Anonymous
  35. joe webb says:
    @Pure and Easy

    Kill a Mockingbird cannot be a lie…ha. Mary McCarthy said every word that Lillian Hellman wrote was a lie, of course a Jewish lie. Look at the jewish literature on politics, virtually all lies, Vivian Gornick as a commie-liar about S. Africa, etc. You must have a law degree in Jewishness.

    Ann Frank is another lie and everybody knows it….that is, it may be technically true, but what it represents, like Kill Mockingbird, is a lie.\

    Deliverance was written by a writer kissing jew ass, like Wm Faulkner kissing northern ass and probably Jewish as well…how to sell a book to northerners…write up snaggle- toothed crackers like in Deliverance, etc. all Lies paid for by Jews or yankees. All movies hate white southerners cuz they are from the Jews…Holocaustwood.

    The record of Jewish People is always a lie with regard to Whites or Negroes, They hate the schwartzes, but deploy them against whites, useful idiots.

    You are a lawyer who will never shut-up, Jewish variety. Do you ever ask yourself, why jews get themselves in “real Jewish trouble” (Doctor Faustus, Thomas Mann ) frequently if not always?

    OF course not; you guys don’t ask yourselves why just about everybody wishes you would go away, somewhere else, like Mars, the war planet.

    Joe Webb

  36. @Pure and Easy

    “To kill a mockingbird is a work of fiction, therefore cannot be a lie. The praise it receives is well deserved.”

    A work of fiction is something that never happened in real life and is NOT the truth. It is therefore a lie when someone forms their view of criminal justice from a fictional book and film.

    • Replies: @Pure and Easy
  37. @Hibernian

    …but they are united in their statist goals.

    As if Dixie were ever a paragon of libertarianism. I’ll take Vermont’s gun laws over any Southern state’s.

    • Replies: @Maj. Kong
  38. @Mark Caplan

    The flag stood for white dominance over the only alternative, which is black dominance.

    A better alternative is black absence.

  39. Maj. Kong says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Arkansas has constitutional carry too, as does the half-Southern state of Arizona.

    Libertarianism doesn’t even work on the Internet.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  40. @Pure and Easy

    “Diary of Anne Frank is an autobiography of a young girl prior to be being murdered. She was Jewish and she was killed because she was Jewish.”

    Anne Frank died of typhus.

    • Replies: @Pure and Easy
  41. @William BadWhite

    “Lindsey Graham is a U.S. Senator. He doesn’t have a district. He represents the entire state of South Carolina.”

    Sorry. Lindsey Graham was in a district that had many non-Southerners while he was a U.S. congressman. I keep forgetting that he is in the senate now. I live in a neighboring state, so I don’t really keep up with him.

    I don’t think you can dismiss the foreign and non-Southern influence in South Carolina. Germans do quite a bit of manufacturing in the state. SCPTV is DeutscheWelle all day long. And their governor is a Sikh. Volvo is also building a plant in SC.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
  42. @Maj. Kong

    Arkansas has constitutional carry too, as does the half-Southern state of Arizona.

    Since 2013 and 2010, respectively. What did they have before then? Vermont entered the Union with it in 1791.

    Libertarianism doesn’t even work on the Internet.

    “Constitutional carry” is libertarian, as libertarian as you can get. Therefore it can’t work, even on the Internet. Vermont must be offline– it seems to have worked there for over 225 years.

    Adam Winkler of UCLA Law School recently wrote a gripping history of US gun laws right up to the Heller decision. The book grew out of this Atlantic article.

    I don’t remember what Diamond State firearms laws were discussed in the book, but the term “Arkansas toothpick” sticks out in my mind. The laws of its namesake and neighboring states were decidedly not libertarian in regard to its possession.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
  43. @OilcanFloyd

    To die in a concentration camp is to be murdered.

    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
  44. @joe webb

    I don’t go on websites for nazis and don’t consider this one. But your comments are of that variety. It’s a pity there are so many simple minded people and those who don’t call you out on here.

    • Replies: @joe webb
    , @iffen
  45. @Pure and Easy

    “To die in a concentration camp is to be murdered.”

    No it’s not. Where is the proof that typhus was introduced to the inmates in order to kill them? Frank, and millions of others, died towards the end of the war when Germany was being bombed back to the stone age. Clean water, food, medicine and anything else that could have prevented the epidemic were in short supply for everyone.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  46. Flat Cat says:

    I believe that the latest campaign against the Confederate battle flag and all other symbols of the Confederacy can be understood at two levels.

    One, the emotional level of your average flag hater. This comes from educational conditioning or cultural conditioning (and one can easily influence the other). In government schools across America the overreaching story is that the Confederacy was evil and had to be destroyed. Often the comparison to Nazi Germany is made. This is educational conditioning.

    Most, if not all blacks see the flag as a symbol of racism and state mandated segregation. This is understandable because it was used as such from the 60s through to the present by organizations such as the Ku Klux clan and others. That is a cultural bias that is reinforced by the educational conditioning. The general population, and the black community in particular, has never been taught about the history of the Klan as a nationalist organization in the early 20th century whose preferred symbol was the flag of the United States.

    The second level is, I believe, the cynical attack by various interests who wish to obliterate even the memory of any resistance to the current regime. The flag, and other Confederate memorials, stand not only for resistance to centralizing power, the banking cartels and mercantilism that dominates todays world, but the remnants of a culture that stood in direct opposition to the cultural revolution that has been pressed for more than half a century. That is a culture unified by a common language and faith that did not accept easy divorce, bastardry, or homosexuality as morally acceptable ways of living.

    But, hell, as long as Wal-Mart keeps selling crappy Chinese goods at low, low prices and you can get a one dollar cheese burger at McDonalds Southerners, and the rest of ex-America, won’t say boo about the destruction of their culture.

    We were never destroyed by our foes. We destroyed ourselves.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
  47. joe webb says:
    @Pure and Easy

    pure chosen and easy answers. I don’t mind Jews being Jews as that is what I hope Whites start doing, being White and recognizing pure enemies when they see them: Blacks, Browns, Jews, Muzzies, etc.

    I assume you are a jew. If not , you are a zombie, that is, a hapless victim of Jews.

    It is Good to be identified with your people, but Bad if that identification blinds you to Reality, in this case, the reality of what Jewish behavior’s results are….anti-semitism.

    Take Ron Unz’s article a couple years ago about the Jewish takeover of Harvard and the Ivys.
    A statue of Unz should be built and placed in …dunno where….in front of the SPLC maybe.

    Unz demonstrated that jews are overrepresented, in terms of academic performance from high school, at the Ivys by about 400%. And that Whites are underrepresented by 600%. Asians also underrepresented some…forget which.

    He also demonstrated that governance at Harvard has been taken over by jews (jew networking )

    Jews think this is Good for the Jews, but it is not. It is the stuff of payback, just like Europe in the WW2 times, and from time to time, everywhere.

    I do not recommend wiping out the Jews. I recommend that Jews join Whites and stop their hate-based support of Negroes and other groups that are anti-White.

    This would be Very Good for the Jews, but you guys are so crazy in your hatred and Pride, that you will never do it. Therefore get ready.

    Joe Webb

  48. joe webb says:

    by the way, “concentration camps” were invented in the Boer War , or so I have read, by the English. Since then they have been used from time to time to jail instead of kill, civilians, soldiers, odds and ends of enemies perceived, including their children.

    When someone dies in jail, from disease like typhus, etc, or exposure like German soldiers after the war who were put out in the fields with barbed wire and no shelter and died in large numbers, some say a million or so, that is not murder, well maybe to a jew if jews are prisoners, but if not, then it is just ok, and too bad. Plausible Deniability of course is always a factor.

    Is Gaza a 25 mile long concentration camp? etc.

    Jews are living in a concentration camp of their own making, with their own capos like Wolfoblitz, Dershie, etc, and for liberal jews, even the Fink? Napoleon had to drag you out of the ghetto, where you would have stayed without the Liberalism of the West. Letting you out is sort of like Nixon in China…awakening the sleeping dog.

    Ghetto was and is the Mind of the Jews. They know, and nobody else does, the rest are cattle to be bled, milked and butchered occasionally for cannon fodder….per the US boys dying for Israel in Arab and Persian lands, and soon maybe to Contain Russia, since the Russians neutralized the Jewish Power at home, and that is unforgivable, not Good for the Jews.

    Let me tell you something. The next time there will be no forgiveness for you haters of Mankind.

    Joe Webb

  49. iffen says:
    @Pure and Easy

    those who don’t call you out on here


    Not really my job, but I will give it a shot.

    how to sell a book to northerners…write up snaggle- toothed crackers

    I buy books about snaggle-toothed crackers and I is one.

  50. “Is Gaza a 25 mile long concentration camp? etc.”

    Using Pure and Easy’s logic, that’s exactly what Gaza is, and every single death that has occurred there for the last 70 years is a murder, for which many Israeli and American Jews are responsible. When do the trials start?

  51. joe webb says:

    a small note to the pure one, who declares himself to be a snaggle-toothed White, but maybe jewish as well….of course, the crypticism of his comments tend to camouflage the whole deal.

    Your cryptic style is the style of a con-artist, a snake, a joker, a village-idiot, a narcissist, easy as in greasy, in other words, a jew.

    Joe Webb

  52. Eustace Tilley (not) [AKA "Schiller/Nietzsche"] says:
    @joe webb

    This is one of the most hate-filled and inaccurate pieces I have ever seen at You’re in such a rush to get it all off your chest that you couldn’t be bothered with accurate punctuation. It says a lot for Ron Unz’s commitment to free speech that he lets this garbage past his gate.

    You should be ashamed of this, but like a good little Nazi, doubtless aren’t.

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @joe webb
  53. Ragno says:

    Like it or not….and there are times I fervently don’t….gutter anti-Semitism is but one of the byproducts you get when a largely-Jewish controlling elite “forbids its own public mention, like the Holy Name in the Old Testament’ (to cop a phrase from the late Joe Sobran) for decades and decades, and attempts to continue that same lockdown in the midst of an exploding Information Age in which enforcing such an embargo constitutes cultural oppression and intellectual tyranny.

    When people hear traditions, sentiments and symbols dear to their heart – and eternal verities the whole world once assumed without question – not merely criticized but mocked, defamed, gleefully blasphemed against, and with all the venom that prevailing standards will allow…..well, I’m sorry, but it’s 2015 and everyone clearly recognizes the telltale slime-trail of the elitist Jew. Or the cultural Marxist, which is just another way of saying “cultural Jew”.

    That you could still hope to enforce this speak and we’ll destroy you taboo as you shit on every last remnant of the Old Republic, and what it was founded upon, only speaks to how long to you’ve been doing exactly that, and with total impunity.

    That needs to stop. You need to stop. Weimar America can only end one way; why the f*ck can’t you see that?

  54. iffen says:
    @Eustace Tilley (not)

    If Ron Unz is Jewish maybe this un-censored style of comment approval is a part of the big plan and we just can’t see it.

  55. “That needs to stop. You need to stop. Weimar America can only end one way; why the f*ck can’t you see that?”

    The belief seems to be that population replacement will save them if they pander to the immigrants. Time will tell, but the immigrants often seem much more prone to anti-Semitism than Americans.

  56. Kilo 4/11 says:

    The Charleston shootings gave a boost to the anti-Southern (anti-white) campaign, and that’s unfortunate. But it did get those words “you are raping our women” out there to probably the biggest audience ever. This is a stone cast on a deep, deep pond, and we may hope the ripples spread far and wide and deep into the hearts of many who were previously ignorant and naive. That the left and the MSM instantly joined in a single voice to condemn this aspect of Roof’s rage shows how big a potential threat they consider the black-on-white rape issue.

  57. joe webb says:
    @Eustace Tilley (not)

    Schiller-Nietzsche, I am not a nazi and oppose some who are in the WN movement. I don’t bother to hate, and in fact prefer individual jews to many others even among my own racial cohort. However, Jews are pure enemy of Whites, in the sense that Oswald Spengler put it, what an Enemy is.

    For example, take the ghoul Gould, Stephen Jay (?) who just died a while back. His Mismeasurement of Man, about the alleged lies of one Morton, a guy who measured skulls of whites and blacks over 100 years ago, some 900 plus of them, and concluded by pouring seed or shot into the skulls that whites skulls were significantly larger in cranial capacity than blacks, that Morton was a liar, a mismeasurer if you will.

    A year or two ago a team remeasured Morton’s skulls with brain imaging technology and discovered that Morton was correct and that the Ghoul lied. Too bad he had died already and avoided his disgrace. The list of lies of the Jews with regard to race continues, but abated. So, for example Stephen Pinker writes a long book that pussy-foots around the essentials of black and white inequality so that the hapless liberal reading it probably gets bored and drifts away, meanwhile Pinker can claim “honesty” and another book published.

    At a meeting at Keplers Books in Menlo Park a year or so, he let the crowd shout me down rather than take a stand for my free speech. I was kicked out of Kepler’s and now have a case before an agency that might rule in my favor

    The Ghoul/ Morton case even made the jewyorktimes last year.

    I challenge you to describe or counter my arguments with facts, not ad hominems.

    You liberals are killers. I looked up the word bigot in my 60 year old Webster’s, and it said, basically, one who refuses new information or consideration of an alternativepoint of view. After a half-century of Jew and Liberal lies, fairy tales, about race, the standard internet definition is: one who is a racist. This is Orwell in our time and the Jewis the most successful of all bigots.

    Of course, they are total racists for Israel, and total hypocrits with regard to their calling us racialists…”racists!” And because of fools like you they get away with it, or maybe you are a Jew yourself, which would explain your violence and vehemence . You Jews are the all time greatest killers on a per-capita basis, from antiquity to the USSR where even Jews like Benjamin Ginsberg (Fatal Embrace) admit that the jews ran the show. Also, the half-jew, Slezkine, his The Jewish Century, Berkeley, admits it, that communism was largely Jewish. Funny though, he claims that these jewish communists were not really Jews anymore, just commies. However he admits that they married one-another…as jews of course, staying clear of gentile commies. What a racket!

    If people on this list have not read Culture of Critique, by Kevin MacDonald, you are missing a treat. The only thing KM misses himself is the role of Protestant religion in putting the Jews above criticism. Jews could never get away with their lies and manipulations in a Catholic country compared to the US. The City on a Hill, of Puritan vintage, is pure jewish chauvinism and OT and mad Jehovah…kill them all!

    How this then morphed into Transcendentalism is a book project. Jews are certainly worth hating, but I don’t bother, too much emotional energy. If I hate anybody, maybe it is our race traitors, White Liberals. everybody hates traitors, look at jewish behavior with regard to self-hating jews, like maybe Ron Unz. Mossad probably has been asked to terminate him for his article on Harvard and the Ivys and their jewish takeover and race war against Whites.

    Jews are the biggest single enemy of Whites. However, for now they cannot be touched due to Protestant luv of the OT and Holocaust propaganda, etc. and jewish ownership of the means of communication.

    Pure Enemy. Funny thing is however if jews are successful in terminating White power, the Negroes, and chinks will finish the Jews off. There will be no White Power left to uphold the rule of law. After Whites are effectively gone, it will just be the law of Rule…by darkies. And the chinks really hate the Jews.

    Finally, you liberals and Jews think you can trumpet your invective, use any slur,, nazi, vile, noxious, virulent, etc. You are arrogant beyond belief and it is Pride that gets the most attention when it comes to score settling. Be aware, you are insolent and ripe for a takedown, politically and personally. It is only about 10 years away, espec if the jews start another war with Russia, and we have economic breakdown.

    Joe Webb

    • Replies: @Eustace Tilley (not)
  58. joe webb says:

    PS…Nietzsche??? O you are an aristocrat, yup. Schiller? Why not come into our Time and forget your fatuous claims of Authority. Nietzsche, more or less loveless and cosmic enough to inspire fools, rightists, marxists, deconstructionists, and, yes, a few nazis.

    Speak plainly and have an argument, not a female fusillade of hysterical ad hominems.\\Joe

  59. Zach says:

    Jimmy Carter, if he’s to be believed, says he had an ancestor fighting at Gettysburg on the Confederate side. Yet he also supports the abolishment of Confederate flag. Likewise he is an official in the Baptist church yet supports gay marriage in the church. No word as to whether he’s left the church of Obama yet.

  60. Hibernian says:

    I only visited South Carolina once, recently, very briefly, in the Upstate (Mr. Graham’s area), but it’s widely believed that the Upstate is more conservative than the Low Country, because in the Low Country there are more Blacks, and the Whites are, on average, more moderate. I’m not sure where the German influence fits in all of this. Also, Northern people have settled in large numbers around Asheville, including my very liberal uncle. There may be some spill over effect across the NC/SC border.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    , @Truth
  61. Hibernian says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Mr. Caesar, you began this chain by longing for pre-1928 Massachusetts. Then you changed the subject to VT gun laws. I think just about everyone can distinguish between heavily urban Southern New England and rural/small town/exurban Northern New England. And VT gun owners may someday be very unpleasantly surprised that the VT Supreme Court has gone full Sotomayor and just ignored the ancient, miltia-clause free, pro gun language of the Vermont Constitution.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  62. Hibernian says:
    @Flat Cat

    “history of the Klan as a nationalist organization in the early 20th century”

    Anti-Catholic, racist, and anti-Semitic organization is more like it. They burned down Fr. Coughlin’s Shrine of the Little Flower in Royal Oak MI when Fr. Coughlin was still a liberal.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  63. Eustace Tilley (not) [AKA "Schiller/Nietzsche"] says:
    @joe webb

    For a dinnertime speaker we knew,
    Every twentieth word was “the Jew”.
    As his air grew more bold,
    So his fare grew more cold;
    He would spare not a moment to chew.

    Jews and Blacks, Jews and banks, Jews and war,
    (Old von Hindenburg’s starting to snore);
    On and on with the views
    That the 30’s thought news.
    We are White, so politely ignore.

  64. @OilcanFloyd

    What was Miss Frank’s crime that justified her imprisonment? She likely would have been safer from typhus outside of prison. So that’s at least manslaughter.

    • Replies: @D. K.
    , @Seraphim
  65. @Hibernian

    Anti-Catholic, racist, and anti-Semitic organization is more like it

    Don’t forget gun-grabbing. Literally. That was their first mission.

  66. @Hibernian

    …ignored the ancient, miltia-clause free, pro gun language of the Vermont Constitution.

    Far more ancient than Vermont’s constitution is English common law.

    I think just about everyone can distinguish between heavily urban Southern New England and rural/small town/exurban Northern New England.

    My very point. The Yankee was the first white American to be dispossessed. The Vermonter’s dispossession, by rootless cosmopolitans, came later.

  67. D. K. says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    She was a de jure enemy alien during a time of war. What crime did the Japanese Americans on the West Coast commit, individually or collectively? Did those that died in American internment camps, under the Roosevelt and Truman regimes, die as a result of homicide, by virtue of their being (unconstitutionally) interned?

    • Replies: @Pure and Easy
  68. She was a de jure enemy alien during a time of war.

    A civilian. A female. An adolescent. In her own country. That’s like blaming the Africans on the St John the Baptist for invading Virginia in 1619.

  69. @D. K.

    She was sent to the concentration camp to be killed. She may have died of typhus. She may have been killed for any small infraction. Her fate was decided by Nazis who decided she should be put to death. They thought the world would thank them for the mass murder. Instead, they have been rightly condemned for it and will continue to be.

    Stupid comparison.

    Next I’d expect someone to deny the holocaust ever happened. The silliness of others on this website is really amazing. But also very sad.

    • Replies: @D. K.
  70. D. K. says:

    Under U.S. law, an adolescent American girl of 14 is an “enemy alien” when the United States is at war with her country of birth! An adolescent girl is perfectly capable of rendering resistance to an occupying force, during a time of war. Seventy years after the end of World War II, the victors are still applying different standards to their former enemies than those victors were, and are, willing to apply to themselves– which might or might not have something to do with why you declined to answer either of my (non-rhetorical) questions about Japanese Americans interned during the war!?! Regardless, Miss Frank died in a typhus epidemic, caused by the Allies’ “total war” strategy and “unconditional surrender” policy. She was not murdered. Those of us whose nations chose to ally themselves with Joseph Stalin’s Soviet Union just might wish to ruminate on that fact, before casting easy aspersions on those long-dead Germans, Italians, Japanese, et al.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    , @Hibernian
  71. D. K. says:
    @Pure and Easy

    What they intended is debatable, considering that Jewish organizations themselves, a few years back, released an estimate of over one million then-living Jewish Holocaust survivors. How many millions were there at war’s end, if there were over one million still living, after the turn of the new millennium? Why were those millions of survivors not murdered, before being “liberated” by Uncle Joe Stalin’s troops, in the so-called death camps of the Eastern Front? Regardless, what the Germans intended to do is beside the point, as a matter of law, if they did not get around to doing it. The Franks were legally held as “enemy aliens” during a time of war. Those that died, as far as I can recall, all died of typhus. If so, then they were not murdered. If they were “murdered,” then so were the millions of Germans who perished in Allied captivity, during and after the war, deprived of shelter and sustenance by the victors.

  72. Seraphim says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    @What was Miss Frank’s crime that justified her imprisonment?

    It is a clear slip of memory on a massive scale that the Jews were at war with Germany.
    From the moment Hitler took power the Jews from all over the World declared war on him:

    “Judea Declares War on Germany! Jews of all the World Unite! Boycott of German Goods! Mass Demonstrations!” – These were all headlines in the Daily Express on March 24, 1933.

    “The Israeli people around the world declare economic and financial war against Germany. Fourteen million Jews stand together as one man, to declare war against Germany. The Jewish wholesaler will forsake his firm, the banker his stock exchange, the merchant his commerce and the pauper his pitiful shed in order to join together in a holy war against Hitler’s people.” – Daily Express, March 24, 1933.

    “We are not denying and are not afraid to confess that this war is our war and that it is waged for the liberation of Jewry… Stronger than all fronts together is our front, that of Jewry. We are not only giving this war our financial support on which the entire war production is based, we are not only providing our full propaganda power which is the moral energy that keeps this war going. The guarantee of victory is predominantly based on weakening the enemy forces, on destroying them in their own country, within the resistance. And we are the Trojan horses in the enemy’s fortress. Thousands of Jews living in Europe constitute the principal factor in the destruction of our enemy. There, our front is a fact and the most valuable aid for victory.” – Chaim Weizmann, President of the World Jewish Congress, Head of the Jewish Agency and later President of Israel, in a Speech on December 3, 1942, in New York.

    Wartime internment of “enemy aliens” was a well established practice since WW1, regulated by the Geneva Convention—that governed the treatment of prisoners of war and civilian enemy nationals, including diplomats, resident in or captured by a belligerent nation. During World War II, internment of Germans and Italians began more than two years before the United States formally entered the war. Seamen from German vessels stranded in U.S. ports were interned shortly after the outbreak of war in September 1939.
    Jews in Germany and occupied countries were “enemy aliens”, often fighting against Germans.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  73. An adolescent girl is perfectly capable of rendering resistance to an occupying force, during a time of war.

    Holland occupied Germany? The things they don’t teach you in school…

    Exactly how is “internment” different from kidnapping? If a kidnap victim dies during the ordeal, can the perpetrator just say “I didn’t mean it?”

    And yes, FDR, the scum of the earth, would ultimately be responsible for deaths that occurred in internment camps that would not have happened had the interned been left alone.

    Miss Frank died in a typhus epidemic, caused by the Allies’ “total war” strategy and “unconditional surrender” policy. She was not murdered

    We bombed Amsterdam? We engaged in biological warfare there as well? Whoever put her in Lower Saxony is as responsible for her death as is anyone. Bergen-Belsen was not Camp Cupcake.

    And Holland is not Germany.

  74. @D. K.

    Oops– I mistakenly read “resistance” as “assistance”. But either way, the occupation is the crime, not the resistance.

    • Replies: @D. K.
  75. Anne Frank sadly was an innocent girl who died because her religious leaders irresponsibly proclaimed loudly a subversive seditious proclamation of a religious war against Germany and the German people. Segregation of subversives remains a legal and moral option during war.

    As far as her diary, it was a forgery which could not have been written before 1951 according to Der Spiegel investigators. Her father made millions from the hoax.

  76. @Hibernian

    I only visited South Carolina once, recently, very briefly, in the Upstate…

    Old-time Carolinians say “Upcountry”. For “Upstate”, try Saratoga.

  77. Truth says:

    Another anecdote; I was in Charleston for a wedding three years ago, had never been there. The first thing I noticed was how many white folks had red hair. It seemed like 50% of the white population is redhead. I asked a waitress why and she said; “Charleston is the most Scottish city in America.” She went on about 300 year old immigration trends for a few minutes. I thought it was interesting.

  78. Hibernian says:
    @D. K.

    The internment of Japanese-Americans in WW2 was shameful, with the exception of a very few individuals who were spies etc. It was impractical to carry out in Hawaii where the danger was greatest. We weren’t trying to kill them all and denying that the Nazis wanted to kill all the Jewish people they could is contrary to history and obviously motivated by anti-Semitism. Will anyone dispute that the survival rate for Japanese-Americans was much higher than for Jews in Europe?

    • Replies: @D. K.
  79. D. K. says:

    If they were trying to kill them all, why, then, did they allow millions of them to survive, such that Organized Jewry was proclaiming that over a million of them were still alive, as of the beginning of 2004? Are you seriously asking me why the survival rate of Japanese Americans, in internment camps on the American West Coast, was higher than the survival rate of Jewish prisoners held in concentration camps in the middle of Europe during World War II? Shall I start with the fact that the Allies deliberately killed hundreds of thousands of German civilians, inter alia, in laying waste to the continent, while the Japanese only managed to kill five or six Americans, out for a church picnic, on the American mainland? Shall I poll all of my Jewish friends and colleagues of the last forty or so years about how anti-Semitic I am, or should I just walk upstairs and ask my Jewish brother-in-law?

  80. D. K. says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Yes, apparently Reading and English Comprehension were not among the subjects taught in school, when you were growing up…. Regardless, if the occupation itself was criminal, what was the American government doing formally allying itself with Joseph Stalin, who had agreed, just before the war began, to invade, occupy and permanently split Poland, alongside Germany, and who also invaded and occupied several other countries, before America ever entered the war? Why did Britain and France declare war on Germany, on September 3, 1939, yet not declare war on the Soviet Union, when it also invaded and occupied Poland, just a couple of weeks later? Inasmuch as the German invasion, on the 1st, took place only a few days after the Hitler-Stalin Pact had been signed and announced to the world, was it not rather painfully obvious that the parties to that treaty also had agreed to split Poland between themselves, and absentmindedly had forgotten to announce that particular provision to the world, along with the rest of them?

    Not to worry! As a former attorney, I certainly do not expect someone who does not even know the difference between the internment of enemy aliens, during a time of declared war, and the crime of kidnapping to know much of anything else worthwhile, either.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  81. Wannsee Conference, January — 1942.

    While the internment of Japanese was horrible, it doesn’t come close to what the Nazis did, wanted to do, or would have done given the opportunity.

    War against native populations is the better parallel. The United States has blood on its hands for sure. Now and in the past. But it doesn’t give Hitler’s and the rest a pass.

    Stalin’s regime was also atrocious. Without it, it likely would have taken an atomic bomb for the allies to win the war. That’s the reason for the marriage of convenience.

    • Replies: @D. K.
  82. D. K. says:
    @Pure and Easy

    “We killed the wrong pig!” –Sir Winston Churchill [attributed]

  83. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Mark Caplan

    Yes you are s northern, and no you have no idea what the flag or uor ancestors sold for other than the lied you have been told/taught. Remember slavery began in the north and didn’t end until 1863, if it really ended then and only because the north had no use for black people as laborers and that’s a fact jack. Study your real history, even in the south at that time slavery was diminishing.

  84. @D. K.

    As a former attorney…

    Oh, I don’t doubt that an attorney steeped in the amoralities of international law could find a technicality with which to exonerate Germany for everything she did in those years. (The suspiciously passive phrase “declared war” is a good start. Nobody has agency.)

    But that just bolsters Dickens’s assertion that the law is a ass, and Shakespeare’s that all who practice it should be killed. Preferably by typhus.

  85. @Seraphim

    Wartime internment of “enemy aliens” was a well established practice since WW1

    In other words, post-Christian.

  86. OMG, Nazis and Jews say what? And has what to do with white Christians slaughtering each other with abandon and enthusiasm. The problem was and remains damn Yankees. I should know, I are one (proud copperhead!). Also, Lee was a double agent; went to Pennsylvania for boots, tscha.

  87. Svigor says:

    Diary of Anne Frank is an autobiography of a young girl prior to be being murdered. She was Jewish and she was killed because she was Jewish.

    I have to wonder, sometimes, how many people have actually read Frank’s diary.

    Do tell us more about your take on the circumstances of Anne Frank’s death. Because this is what Wikipedia has to say:

    In early 1945, a typhus epidemic spread through the camp, killing 17,000 prisoners.[50] Other diseases, including typhoid fever, were rampant.[51] Due to these chaotic conditions, it is not possible to say what ultimately caused Anne’s death. Witnesses later testified Margot fell from her bunk in her weakened state and was killed by the shock. Anne died a few days after Margot. The exact dates of Margot and Anne’s deaths were not recorded. It was long thought that their deaths occurred only a few weeks before British soldiers liberated the camp on 15 April 1945,[52] but new research in 2015 indicated that they may have died as early as February of that year.[53] Among other evidence, witnesses recalled that the Franks displayed typhus symptoms by 7 February,[3][54] and Dutch health authorities reported that most untreated typhus victims died within 12 days of their first symptoms.[53] After liberation, the camp was burned in an effort to prevent further spread of disease; the sisters were buried in a mass grave at an unknown location.

    Hard to get a “was killed” from that. “Murdered” is even further off the menu. In fact, it’s hard to get a “was killed” from that for Anne’s sister, Margot. In fact, it’s kind of hard to get a “was killed” from this for Anne’s mother, Edith:

    Edith Frank was left behind and later died from starvation.

    And it’s very hard to get a “was killed” for Otto, Anne’s father, from this bit:

    Otto Frank survived his internment in Auschwitz.

    Odd, how this entire family moved through so very many death camps without being killed, but that’s miraculous history for you.

    You’ll be needing another handle after this one has become associated with your regard for the truth, but I suspect you’re used to that by now.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
  88. Svigor says:

    Lemme check: yep, Paul Gottfried’s still a Righteous Jew.

  89. Svigor says:

    Oh, yes, let’s do compare Yankee gun laws to Dixie gun laws, Yankeeland’s sure to come out smelling like a 2nd Amendment rose on that score.

  90. Svigor says:

    To die in a concentration camp is to be murdered.

    Then so is to die in a concentration-stan. I.e., all Palestinians who die in the occupied territories are murdered at the hands of Jews.

  91. Svigor says:

    Moderator: sorry for the serial posts. Will try to remember to consolidate better next time.

    Anti-Catholic, racist, and anti-Semitic organization is more like it. They burned down Fr. Coughlin’s Shrine of the Little Flower in Royal Oak MI when Fr. Coughlin was still a liberal.


    What was Miss Frank’s crime that justified her imprisonment? She likely would have been safer from typhus outside of prison. So that’s at least manslaughter.

    Dunno. Too busy worried about how to make the Palestinians safe from mass murder and genocide at the hands of the Jews, check back later.

    She was sent to the concentration camp to be killed. She may have died of typhus. She may have been killed for any small infraction. Her fate was decided by Nazis who decided she should be put to death.

    Sure, that’s why her mother starved to death; because starving someone to death is the perfect way to murder someone. Whenever I plot a murder, I always start with the most efficient methods – starve them to death, or walk them to death. Tough to decide which is most efficient.

    That’s why Anne died of typhus, because waiting for someone to come down with typhus is murder method #1. Ditto for Margot.

    But best of all is to keep a prisoner around forever until you lose a war, and he’s freed, as in Otto’s case.

    But the most important thing is to make sure you move your prisoners from camp, to camp, to camp, to camp, to camp. Nothing says “I want you dead” like keeping someone around forever and moving them all over the place.

    The Hutus did a better number on the Tutsis with machetes and a mean IQ 0f 70 or so.

    Exactly how is “internment” different from kidnapping? If a kidnap victim dies during the ordeal, can the perpetrator just say “I didn’t mean it?”

    If she falls and breaks her head open, can we say he planned to kill her all along?

    Will anyone dispute that the survival rate for Japanese-Americans was much higher than for Jews in Europe?

    Will anyone dispute that Germany had the living shit bombed out of her, suffered food shortages, the fog of war, etc., and the USA did not?

    exonerate Germany for everything she did in those years

    Saying he didn’t intend to murder her all along isn’t trying to exonerate him.

  92. Svigor says:

    [It’s as simple as can be:]

    Anybody know how to display an image in an thread using a url?

  93. Svigor says:

    [Here’s the HTML source for a typical embedded image:

    <image src=”×68.jpg&#8221; width=50 />

    It looks like WordPress automatically expands images, so you don’t need to do anything but provide the URL]

    (Doesn’t help much when it’s too late to look under the hood. 🙂 But I think I got it. Edit: wtf? It displayed fine in the preview.)

    500,000 to 1,000,000 dead in 100 days, now that’s how you do genocide. Good thing for the Jews that the Germans weren’t as efficient and intelligent as the Hutus. The Germans should get the Hutus to build cars for them.

    Here, here’s the fucking image already:

    View post on

  94. Svigor says:


    [my img code just disappeared when I posted it]

    I don’t think it’s on Imgur’s end, since I successfully posted an embedded image here from there just a few days ago (plus, unless you messed with it, a plain URL to Imgur with no code seems to have worked). Maybe I copy-pasted the wrong version, though, because they offer several when you upload an image.

  95. Hibernian says:

    That 1 survived, 1 died of starvation, and 2 others probably directly or indirectly from typhus, is obviously a function of their being captured late in the war.

  96. hp says:

    Meet the neo-Bolsheviks.
    (same as the old Bolsheviks)

  97. Malcolm says:
    @David In TN

    A very technical point and very misleading, perhaps not intentional.
    The date that was set by the Tennessee General Assembly for the Referendum for 1) declaration of independence of the compact called Constitution of the U. S. [not secession] and 2) application for admission to the new COUNTRY called the Confederate States of America, that passed two to one, was BY CHANCE scheduled a few days after the North Carolina vote — in an era of slow communication.

    The data below show that the Tennessee General Assembly voted TWO WEEKS before the North Carolina legislature passed a withdrawal vote. The Tennessee General Assembly let the people have a referendum, like they did in Virginia, whose date was by chance set a mere two weeks before the Tennessee referendum. SCHEDULING, NOTHING ELSE.
    Have you heard of the PACS ?

    Your New South, East Tennessee Republican, and “liberal” assertion is spurious and based on casuistry. Confederates in Tennessee have endured it for a century now.

    The four “Upper South” states responded immediately to Lincoln’s “order” for invasion troops. Every thing else was accidental and chance as to their dates for formal withdrawal.

    1. Virginia = Adopted by the convention of Virginia April 17,1861 ratified by a vote of 132,201 to 37,451 on 23 May 1861.

    2. Arkansas = Adopted and passed in open convention on the 6th day of May, A.D. 1861.

    3. Tennessee = Sent to referendum 6 May 1861 by the legislature, and approved by the voters by a vote of 104,471 to 47,183 on 8 June 1861.

    4. North Carolina = Done in convention at the city of Raleigh, this the 20th day of May, in the year of our Lord 1861, and …

    As to your boast that Tennessee was the first Confederate state to be taken back in, this too is casuistry. All Tennessee Confederate soldiers and known defenders [majority] were “disenfranchised” for a number of years, first by the U. S. military occupation and its puppet Republican General Assembly [Johnson] and then by the U. S. Gov’t. imposed illegal civil rule by the East Tennessee Republican puppets, which was nothing but technical non-military occupation [Brownlow]. Those scoundrels lasted until 1870 when Gov. Dewitt Clinton Senter began to repeal the anti-Confederate disenfranchisement, etc.

    So you keep playing with the New South version of Tennessee history.

    I am a descendant of two Confederate veterans [one from Mississippi who ended up in Nashville after the Battle, and one from Wilson County, Tennessee, who fought in Virginia].

    May God preserve the memory of the Confederacy until the end of the world, and better, restore it.

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