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Who Targeted Ukraine Airlines Flight 752? Iran Shot It Down But There May be More to the Story
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The claim that Major General Qassem Soleimani was a “terrorist” on a mission to carry out an “imminent” attack that would kill hundreds of Americans turned out to be a lie, so why should one believe anything else relating to recent developments in Iran and Iraq? To be sure, Ukraine International Airlines Flight 752 departing from Tehran’s Imam Khomeini International Airport on the morning of January 8th with 176 passengers and crew on board was shot down by Iranian air defenses, something which the government of the Islamic Republic has admitted, but there just might be considerably more to the story involving cyberwarfare carried out by the U.S. and possibly Israeli governments.

To be sure, the Iranian air defenses were on high alert fearing an American attack in the wake of the U.S. government’s assassination of Soleimani on January 3rd followed by a missile strike from Iran directed against two U.S. bases in Iraq. In spite of the tension and the escalation, the Iranian government did not shut down the country’s airspace. Civilian passenger flights were still departing and arriving in Tehran, almost certainly an error in judgment on the part of the airport authorities. Inexplicably, civilian aircraft continued to take off and land even after Flight 752 was shot down.

Fifty-seven of the passengers on the flight were Canadians of Iranian descent, leading Prime Minister Justin Trudeau to point the finger both at the Iranian government for its carelessness and also at Washington, observing angrily that the Trump Administration had deliberately and recklessly sought to “escalate tensions” with Iran through an attack near Baghdad Airport, heedless of the impact on travelers and other civilians in the region.

What seems to have been a case of bad judgments and human error does, however, include some elements that have yet to be explained. The Iranian missile operator reportedly experienced considerable “jamming” and the planes transponder switched off and stopped transmitting several minutes before the missiles were launched. There were also problems with the communication network of the air defense command, which may have been related.

The electronic jamming coming from an unknown source meant that the air defense system was placed on manual operation, relying on human intervention to launch. The human role meant that an operator had to make a quick judgment in a pressure situation in which he had only moments to react. The shutdown of the transponder, which would have automatically signaled to the operator and Tor electronics that the plane was civilian, instead automatically indicated that it was hostile. The operator, having been particularly briefed on the possibility of incoming American cruise missiles, then fired.

The two missiles that brought the plane down came from a Russian-made system designated SA-15 by NATO and called Tor by the Russians. Its eight missiles are normally mounted on a tracked vehicle. The system includes both radar to detect and track targets as well as an independent launch system, which includes an Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) system functionality capable of reading call signs and transponder signals to prevent accidents. Given what happened on that morning in Tehran, it is plausible to assume that something or someone deliberately interfered with both the Iranian air defenses and with the transponder on the airplane, possibly as part of an attempt to create an aviation accident that would be attributed to the Iranian government.

The SA-15 Tor defense system used by Iran has one major vulnerability. It can be hacked or “spoofed,” permitting an intruder to impersonate a legitimate user and take control. The United States Navy and Air Force reportedly have developed technologies “that can fool enemy radar systems with false and deceptively moving targets.” Fooling the system also means fooling the operator. The Guardian has also reported independently how the United States military has long been developing systems that can from a distance alter the electronics and targeting of Iran’s available missiles.

The same technology can, of course, be used to alter or even mask the transponder on a civilian airliner in such a fashion as to send false information about identity and location. The United States has the cyber and electronic warfare capability to both jam and alter signals relating to both airliner transponders and to the Iranian air defenses. Israel presumably has the same ability. Joe Quinn at Sott.net also notes an interested back story to those photos and video footage that have appeared in the New York Times and elsewhere showing the Iranian missile launch, the impact with the plane and the remains after the crash, to include the missile remains. They appeared on January 9th, in an Instagram account called ‘Rich Kids of Tehran‘. Quinn asks how the Rich Kids happened to be in “a low-income housing estate on the city’s outskirts [near the airport] at 6 a.m. on the morning of January 8th with cameras pointed at the right part of the sky in time to capture a missile hitting a Ukrainian passenger plane…?”

Put together the Rich Kids and the possibility of electronic warfare and it all suggests a premeditated and carefully planned event of which the Soleimani assassination was only a part. There have been riots in Iran subsequent to the shooting down of the plane, blaming the government for its ineptitude. Some of the people in the street are clearly calling for the goal long sought by the United States and Israel, i.e. “regime change.” If nothing else, Iran, which was widely seen as the victim in the killing of Soleimani, is being depicted in much of the international media as little more than another unprincipled actor with blood on its hands. There is much still to explain about the downing of Ukrainian International Airlines Flight 752.

Philip M. Giraldi, Ph.D., is Executive Director of the Council for the National Interest, a 501(c)3 tax deductible educational foundation (Federal ID Number #52-1739023) that seeks a more interests-based U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East. Website is councilforthenationalinterest.org, address is P.O. Box 2157, Purcellville VA 20134 and its email is [email protected].

(Republished from American Herald Tribune by permission of author or representative)
 
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  1. Given this news, any impartial observer would at least entertain the possibility of its truth, particularly given the lengthy track record of the United States/Israel in perpetrating such crimes.

    It’s a good litmus test for determining where one’s sentiment lies. Even “alternative media” aren’t likely to touch this story.

    Bravo to Mr. Giraldi and Mr. Unz.

  2. Sean says:

    The Iranian Ambassador to Britain, Hamid Baeidinejad said in an interview on the UK Channel 4 news hours ago that although Iran had needed time to determine what had happened, it had now accepted responsibility, would pay compensation, and the people who fired on the jet will be put on trial.

    If nothing else, Iran, which was widely seen as the victim in the killing of Soleimani, is being depicted in much of the international media as little more than another unprincipled actor with blood on its hands.

    Both Trump and the Iranian regime have good domestic disquiet reason to rethink the confrontational policy each are pursuing. Iran and the US could get closer over this. I think the predictable unpredictability of assassination and catastrophic loss of life events makes false flagging them of dubious value.

    Why did I rob banks? Because I enjoyed it. I loved it. I was more alive when I was inside a bank, robbing it, than at any other time in my life. I enjoyed everything about it so much that one or two weeks later I’d be out looking for the next job. But to me the money was the chips, that’s all.

    (Sutton W, Linn E: Where the Money Was: The Memoirs of a Bank Robber. Viking Press (1976), p. 160)

    I suppose it is possible there are people who get addicted to false flagging others’ deaths. If half of what is said in this site is true, Mossad really needs to set up a 12 step program.

    • Agree: Z-man
    • Replies: @Z-man
    , @romar
    , @GermanINAus
  3. onebornfree says: • Website

    “….the big question which many people on social media are asking is: why was this “videographer” standing in a derelict industrial area outside Tehran at around six o’clock in the morning with a mobile phone camera training on a fixed angle to the darkened sky? The airliner is barely visible, yet the sky-watching person has the camera pointed and ready to film a most dramatic event, seconds before it happened. That strongly suggests, foreknowledge.”

    “Iran Jet Disaster Setup – Who Is the Mysterious Videographer?:”
    https://ahtribune.com/world/north-africa-south-west-asia/iran/3809-jet-disaster-setup.html

    And I would add: how do we know the video[s] are even genuine? [Answer: we don’t, it is only an unproven assumption at this time].

    Regards, onebornfree

    • Replies: @Zumbuddi
    , @Anonymous
    , @Lurker
  4. anonymous[150] • Disclaimer says:

    Hmmm, cameras waiting beforehand, transponders not working. Sort of sounds like 9-11, doesn’t it?

  5. that the ZOG was involved in the airliner shootdown

    is about as likely as the ZOG being involved in 9/11.

    cf.: the Mossad film crew, all set up on the Jersey side of the Hudson,

    20 minutes before the first plane hit the North Tower.

  6. Lot says:

    Russian missiles, fired by Iranians, obviously the misdeeds of Jews! Phil and his phans knew it instinctively, and immediately set out searching the Internet for evidence.

    • Agree: Momus
    • Troll: Alfred, Art, Iris
  7. The airliner had not been in the air long at all when it was shot down. An Airliner can not legally launch with deadlined transponder, so the claim that it quit transmitting “several” minutes earlier would have placed it on the ground when it quit.

    The claim of US electronic warfare spoofing the radar is equally clownish. The most likely reason was the fact a number of Iranian dissidents were on board that AC who had been a thorn in the side of the regime for some time. That is speculation, but what Giraldi has published doesn’t even rise to the level of the most idiotic conspiracy theory one can concoct.

    • Agree: Momus
    • Disagree: GMC
  8. Beb says:

    I have come to expect different observers to “spin” current events according to their world view, but I must say – your analysis simply takes the cake.

  9. The Iranian missile operator reportedly experienced considerable “jamming” and the planes transponder switched off and stopped transmitting several minutes before the missiles were launched.

    I vaguely recall reports of transponder issues arising during the shootdown of MH-17.

  10. anonymous[405] • Disclaimer says:

    Civilian passenger flights were still departing and arriving in Tehran, almost certainly an error in judgment on the part of the airport authorities. Inexplicably, civilian aircraft continued to take off and land even after Flight 752 was shot down.

    The Iranian government is blameworthy for keeping planes in the air either because of diabolical reasons (delays a counter attack) or economic (nearly $1 billion a year in overflight fees).

    However, the pilots of the airliners that took over during the morning between the first missile hitting Iraq and the downing of the Ukrainian airliner were dumb and irresponsible.

    [MORE]

    two by Turkish Airlines to Istanbul

    two by Qatar Airways to Doha and Hong Kong (cargo)

    Atlas Global to Istanbul

    Aeroflot to Moscow

    Austrian Airlines to Vienna

    Lufthansa to Frankfurt

    First missile hit in Iraq at around 22:30 (UTC, not local time).

    2020-01-07 23:12:30 LH601 A333 Frankfurt

    2020-01-08 00:05:15 TK875 A321 Istanbul

    2020-01-08 00:53:37 OS872 A320 Vienna

    2020-01-08 01:01:29 SU513 A320 Moscow

    2020-01-08 01:31:28 QR491 A333 Doha

    2020-01-08 01:37:28 TK873 A321 Istanbul

    2020-01-08 01:47:16 KK1185 A321 Istanbul

    2020-01-08 02:09:39 QR8408 B77L Hong Kong

    2020-01-08 02:42:19 PS752 B738 Kyiv

  11. Anon[230] • Disclaimer says:

    The system includes both radar to detect and track targets as well as an independent launch system, which includes an Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) system functionality capable of reading call signs and transponder signals to prevent accidents.

    Clearly you have no clue how an IFF operates and that no commercial airliner even has an IFF on board. Every commercial aircraft looks like the enemy to this SAM operator.

    Also, you need to explain how spoofing a RADAR which creates a false track would cause the shoot down. The missile would simply target the false track instead of the real aircraft.

    You also need to explain how an old SAM missile site can be hacked or spoofed to shoot down a civilian airliner. Especially this old one which has no Mode-S or ADS-B capability and only radio communication capability.

    As Mark Twain said, it’s better to keep your mouth shut and let people think you are an idiot rather than open it and remove all doubt.

  12. Anon[200] • Disclaimer says:

    Even if this was a clear mistake on Iran’s part, the US and Israel still have blood on their hands for the downing of this plane. The missiles were launched in response to a targeted killing of an Iranian general. If that didn’t happen, these missiles never would’ve been launched.

    Trump-Pence-Pompeo-Kushner-Netanyahu are ultimately responsible for these 176 lives lost. I suspect MBS is also part of the scheme. It was his fake peace offering that lured Soleimani to Iraq in the first place. I’m with Trudeau on this.

  13. Onlooker says:
    @Anon

    Before calling someone an idiot it is better to follow Mark Twain’s advice yourself. A more careful reading reveals no claim that IFF was onstalled on the airliner. The commenter does speculate that possible spoofing involved a false attribution of a real airliner not the creation of a false airliner and radar track. Perhaps you are familiar with “old” electronic countermeasures and not with the “new”, “top secret” and spiffy versions hinted at by the U.S. military?

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @AnonStarter
  14. Good Lord! Those Iranians are so scared of Trump they were practically pissing their pants.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @anonymous
  15. I don’t think PG has given this enough thought bbefore posting. What Mossad might get up to I leave aside but how can a case be made for a false flag by the US?

    Might Trump have wanted the cupable downing of a Ukrainian airliner? Why? To offset his murder of the Iranian general? That’s improbable: so nuch risk for so little gain. But let’s say Trump was effectually the originator of the false flag operation. Who could he entrust it to so his part in it would be effective but not known outside one crucial agency? No: ridiculous. Impossible.

    So we speculate about some loose cannons with enough control over the CIA to cause the downing of the aircraft and also reliably cover it up. No, completely implausible unless PG can claim some special inside contact as his source.

    • Replies: @Verymuchalive
    , @Curmudgeon
  16. 36 ulster says:
    @Anon

    They simply can’t restrain themselves; not in their nature.

  17. @Quartermaster

    /An Airliner can not legally launch with deadlined transponder, so the claim that it quit transmitting “several” minutes earlier would have placed it on the ground when it quit./

    From the SoTT link:

    As it climbed and reached 4,600ft above ground level, the plane’s transponder suddenly stopped working at about 6.14am, 2 minutes or so after take off. [emphasis added]

    The plane was already airborne when the transponder stopped working.

  18. Anon[230] • Disclaimer says:
    @Onlooker

    The commenter does speculate that possible spoofing involved a false attribution of a real airliner not the creation of a false airliner and radar track.

    What false attribution precisely? Also explain precisely how this false attribution would cause the SAM operator to shoot down the Ukrainian airliner.

    Perhaps you are familiar with “old” electronic countermeasures and not with the “new”, “top secret” and spiffy versions hinted at by the U.S. military?

    What new spiffy versions? Explain precisely how these “new”, “top secret” and spiffy versions would trick this old technology mobile Iranian SAM missile site operator to shoot down a Ukrainian airliner. And if you say its top secret then I will conclude that you, like the author, have no idea what you are talking about.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @Onlooker
  19. @Ozymandias

    ‘Good Lord! Those Iranians are so scared of Trump they were practically pissing their pants.’

    They probably are. We’re a rampaging gorilla controlled by a mentally disturbed dwarf.

    • Agree: Moi
    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Lazz
  20. At the next Trump news conference I would hope some member of the press would ask if the US had any culpability in the confusion of Iranian anti-aircraft fire.
    Oh I forgot…the president doesn’t do those. No questions allowed.

  21. @Onlooker

    Less than twenty replies into the thread and we’ve already got two individuals attempting to distort the facts. Here’s the key link that readers should visit:

    https://www.sott.net/article/427303-Was-Iranian-Missile-Operator-Tricked-Into-Shooting-Down-The-Ukrainian-Airlines-Plane-Over-Tehran

    Compare the information there against what the detractors say here.

    • Agree: Alfred, anaccount
  22. gotmituns says:

    once trump gets through with the dumb impeachment malarkey he’ll (or maybe the israelis)implement some false flag operation and kick the sh*t out of the Iranians.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  23. JimDandy says:
    @Colin Wright

    Wow. What would the motive be, exactly? Hack into the system so Iran accidentally blows a civilian plane out of the sky, so the regime looks bad for being jittery and inept during wartime conditions? Then cue the staged outraged protests, so the media can make it seem like the Iranian government is losing control. Jesus. That scenario is hard to even think about. All those innocent lives for such a lame, ineffectual plan.

    • Replies: @barr
  24. @Quartermaster

    The airliner had not been in the air long at all when it was shot down. An Airliner can not legally launch with deadlined transponder, so the claim that it quit transmitting “several” minutes earlier would have placed it on the ground when it quit.

    The flight departed Tehran Imam Khomeini International Airport at 02:42 UTC (06:12 local time) and the last ADS-B signal was received by the Flightradar24 network at 02:44 UTC(06:14 local time). According to the report the aircraft climbed to 8000 feet and turned right back toward the airport and crashed at 02:48 UTC (06:18 local time)—four minutes after the last ADS-B signal was received by the Flightradar24 network. – Source Flight Radar 24

    Mr. Giraldi’s original claim:

    The Iranian missile operator reportedly experienced considerable “jamming” and the planes transponder switched off and stopped transmitting several minutes before the missiles were launched. There were also problems with the communication network of the air defense command, which may have been related.

    4 minutes after the transponders were switches off, the plane crashed.

    Without [proper] access to the FDR and CVR, it’s impossible to determine when the plane was hit and how long it took to crash, exactly.

    The plane was only flying at 8,000 feet [its normal {flight} ceiling is 30,000 feet and above], so it’s speed relatively low [cruise speed is between about 400 and 500 knots (460 – 575 mph / 740 – 930 kph), but the Ukrainian plane was still climbing] and the fall back to Earth relatively quick.

    On the clip where the plane is on fire and finally crashes, the downward angle looked to be about 25 to 30 %, which is relatively steep. Time of downfall can be calculated when the relative data is available.

    Therefore, Mr Giraldi’s claim “…several minutes before the missiles were launched…” is technically correct, until proven wrong by data from the FDR and CVR,

  25. utu says:

    The Tor system is too primitive to be hacked. It is a stand alone, autonomous and mostly analog system. The radar signals it generates are shown on analog tube-screens.

    The stories that Russia gave Iranian codes to Israel (based on emails of some Mexican policeman with Stratfor according to Wikileaks) or Americans bragging that they put malware in those systems is just part of psychological warfare usually disseminated by Israelis press and websites. The Tor system is not an iPhone. Israel and the US like to brag about their omnipotence. Do their enemies buy it – I doubt it but it gets traction among internet conspiracy aficionados. Will Iran decide to use that bogus story to shift the blame for the tragedy? I doubt it. Despite of elevated paranoia in Iran they realize that nobody that matters would buy it and they would be laughed at besides they do not want to admit to their weakness.

    Anyway, I am surprised that Mr. Giraldi pushes that story.

  26. bobhammer says:
    @AnonStarter

    What a crock of shit. I was an Air Force Close Air Support, Forward Air Controller, and I take great umbrage in the bald faced lie, disparaging my brothers in the Force, with the entire intent being to insinuate that the President of the United States, Donald Trump, not only assassinated a “beloved leader” who was one of the most despicable humans on the planet, a cowardly murderer of friends of mine, but implicated my brothers in the intentional downing of the Ukranian civilian airplane by tricking the missle operator into thinking that there was an incoming missle that he was targeting.
    This spurious claim has intentionally accused the President of ordering the murder of almost 200 Innocents, but has insinuated that the Air Force also would be held responsible.
    The Democrats have gone too far. If they believe that anyone who is either in the service now, or has served in the Air Force, is not now seeing the deepest color of red, with smoke pouring out of their ears, has made a huge mistake. They’ll pay for this in November, and when they rot in hell.

  27. Ghali says:

    Interesting theory by P. Giraldi. However, I am very surprised that Israel/Mossad role in these acts of terrorism never mentioned. We know that Trump is a Zionist servant and acts on instructions from his jewish fananciers. We know, Trump is incapable of serious thinking.

    Here is a good article with some interesting observations:
    https://sputniknews.com/columnists/202001131078026961-iran-jet-disaster-setup/

  28. GMC says:

    The Iranians took the hit because their missiles took out the airliner. And then, they could stop the Western media crying for the next 6 mos. and this gave them time to bring in other neutral investigators to look at the evidence and come up with logical scenarios. There is a reason the black boxes weren’t given to any one else to own – because they still remember the scam investigation of MH 17. I f lew planes for over 20 yrs – Every controlled/radared airport would ask me to turn on my transponder if it wasn’t on – Everyone of them. This plane not only came from Ukraine but was an easy target for a hack from any of the big Intel countries. The BIG STORY here is that most every plane flying today – can have the same type consequences!!! because of the Western War Machine.

  29. @Quartermaster

    based on transponder data from Flightradar24. That data cuts out abruptly roughly three and a half minutes into the flight, with the plane at an altitude of 8,000 feet.

    • Replies: @Alfred
  30. @Anon

    “Especially this old one which has no Mode-S or ADS-B capability ”

    “The final ADS-B data received was at 06:14:45, less than two minutes after departure.” – Flightradar24 Blog. 8 January 2020.

  31. anonymous[174] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ozymandias

    Your knuckles are dragging.

  32. @Anon

    It all depends on the arguments, but yours first hand, seem convincing. Now about spinning and re-spinning of events is what the alternative media thrive on as much as the MSM. Preferably just picking angles, the single Soleimani event champs this here at u-n-z. In soccer it is called midfielders passing the ball, to set up the assist and then targeting the goal, which of course is the next elections. It does not go further as that.

    As far as the Guardian, as a stand alone source, without mention of where it got it’s raw data, is stating a rumour.

  33. AZ says:

    Ask the Israelis. They are experts in these operations. The blood of the innocent on their heads……

    R D Steele has some interesting thoughts as well:

    https://phibetaiota.net/2020/01/robert-steele-world-war-iii-was-ukrainian-flight-ps752-a-western-false-flag-combining-remote-hijacking-and-transponder-disabling-to-trigger-two-tor-m1-missiles/

  34. iffen says:

    The Iranian missile operator reportedly experienced considerable “jamming”

    It’s the USS Liberty all over again.

    how the Rich Kids happened to be in “a low-income housing estate on the city’s outskirts [near the airport] at 6 a.m. on the morning of January 8th with cameras pointed at the right part of the sky in time to capture a missile hitting a Ukrainian passenger plane…?”

    No wait! It’s 9/11 again.

    • Replies: @Johnny Smoggins
  35. lysias says:

    There’s no doubt that Israel tricked Syrian air defense into shooting down that Russian intel plane.

  36. lavoisier says: • Website
    @Anon

    Trump-Pence-Pompeo-Kushner-Netanyahu are ultimately responsible for these 176 lives lost. I suspect MBS is also part of the scheme. It was his fake peace offering that lured Soleimani to Iraq in the first place. I’m with Trudeau on this.

    Trudeau showed some real courage criticizing Trump and his terrible decisions.

    More Western allies have to stand up to the Zionist stooge and call him out on his treachery and stupidity.

  37. @bobhammer

    The Democrats have gone too far.

    I believe that P.G. has supported Trump until recently.

    Besides, you could get some general information about such themes if you read articles like the following:

    There’s No Evidence Iran Is Responsible for the Deaths of Hundreds of Americans
    by Stephen Zunes

    https://progressive.org/dispatches/-no-evidence-iran-is-responsible-for-the-deaths-of-hundreds-of-americans-zunes-200107/

    How the President Became a Drone Operator
    by Allegra Harpootlian

    https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/01/16/how-the-president-became-a-drone-operator/

  38. anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    Yet you don’t address the principal point:

    “A more careful reading reveals no claim that IFF was [i]nstalled on the airliner.”

    You were incorrect about that, weren’t you?

  39. lavoisier says: • Website
    @bobhammer

    Stop drinking the Kool-Aid. Turn off Fox News now.

    We are not always the good guys and we are up to our necks in deceit, plunder, and evil. Our actions have harmed millions of people around the world and it has to stop.

    It is time for more self-reflection as individuals and as a nation; and it is long past time for us to be comfortable with lies.

    • Agree: Daniel Rich
  40. Anonymous[308] • Disclaimer says:
    @onebornfree

    This is called a Naudet in post-9/11 photojournalism, an occult practice of knowing where to aim the camera just before something big happens. In this latest case, hundreds of Dancing Israelis would have been seen in America’s newsrooms and neocon offices.

    • Replies: @davidgmillsatty
  41. @iffen

    I really can’t say that I blame you Jews for mocking America and having nothing but contempt for the American lives lost in both the Liberty incident and 9-11.

    After all, no matter how shitty your behaviour is, they keep bending over to take more. They’re like an abused wife that keeps coming back.

  42. anon[230] • Disclaimer says:
    @AnonStarter

    Less than twenty replies into the thread and we’ve already got two individuals attempting to distort the facts. Here’s the key link that readers should visit:

    https://www.sott.net/article/427303-Was-Iranian-Missile-Operator-Tricked-Into-Shooting-Down-The-Ukrainian-Airlines-Plane-Over-Tehran

    From your link:

    Since the Tor-M1 system he is operating is fitted with IFF (Identification Friend or Foe) functionality, he could even see their call signs.

    This is absolutely false. An IFF has zero capability to see call signs. IFF systems can only determine if an aircraft is a friend or foe if the aircraft is IFF equipped. No commercial airliners have IFFs on board.

    From your link:

    but it is equally possible for a hacker to inject data directly into the aircraft’s ADS-B. so that it transmits false data about its identity, location, speed and direction.

    This old. mobile, Iranian SAM site has zero ability to even receive ADS-B data. So whatever can or cannot be done to manipulate ADS-B data is irrelevant.

    Anyone who uses the words IFF or ADS-B in their analysis doesn’t know what they are talking about and should be ignored

    • Replies: @Stefan
    , @Stefan
  43. @Lot

    “…Russian missiles, fired by Iranians, obviously the misdeeds of Jews..!”

    Yes, the Iranians were electronically misled by Israeli agents, while some were also present “to document the event”. Shade of 9/11 by the Jewish rogue state that brought terrorism to the Middle East and the world at large.

  44. Eugene says:

    This is clearly very unlikely. If it is true then Iran and Russia better fix their defences. The US could attacj with impunity. But I doubt it. Some conspiracies are true, many are not.

  45. onebornfree says: • Website

    “…One does wonder why 138 people would travel from Tehran to Canada via Kyiv, but that is only one of many questions associated with this crash. Stranger still are the memorial programs for the Canadian victims that showed up in the media ON THE SAME DAY as the crash. ….”

    “…The crash site is also problematic. Debris is strewn over a wide area, with little of it burned. Very few parts of the plane are visible in the news footage, although most of it should have been recovered. The Boeing 737-800 has between 162 and 189 seats, but not a single airplane seat is seen in the footage…….”

    “….A few pieces of luggage show up, but nowhere near the amount there should be, and papers, water bottles, photo albums, and children’s books survived. And we do have shoes, lots of single shoes – the hallmark of hoax events worldwide……”

    “……The tail usually survives in a plane crash, but only the tip shows up here, and it looks like it was set down carefully in a tilled field, with the rows undamaged by any kind of impact……”

    “……..None of the “amateur” videos can be assumed to be authentic, just as the stories in the media cannot be trusted. Taken together, however, the evidence points not to a plane crash but to a fake event, perhaps involving a missile, with loads of debris trucked in and deposited for the cameras….”

    See: “The Strange Crash of Ukrainian Flight #752 in Iran”
    https://jamesfetzer.org/2020/01/vivian-lee-the-strange-crash-of-ukrainian-flight-752-in-iran/

    Regards, onebornfree

  46. Z-man says:
    @Sean

    As much as I despise The Zionist Entity, AIPAC, the Neocon world etc., etc. I can’t help but agree with Sean here above.
    I know Phil is a former CIA official and he can’t help himself from indulging in these suppositions but he should stick to delegitimizing the Zionist state because of actual, legitimate reasons.
    BDS now! One State Solution now. No more wars for Israel, now.

    FYI, When it comes to my anti Zionist position I’m not an Arab and I’ve even had run ins with a Palestinian American or two. I consider myself a lapsed Catholic (grin) but I’m a fan of the SSPX and the good Bishop, Williamson. Being against the land that ‘The UN partitioned‘ I have to follow the TRUTH and not be blinded by the controlled media, stupid Christian Zionist dogma or even my cynical Leader Donaldus Trumpus.
    America First! Americae primum!

    • Replies: @Iris
  47. @anonymous

    Yeah. Especially because the towers were brought down by Russian SA-15s. You forgot that similarity.

  48. Truth3 says:

    Israelis and their “allies” are always there to… “document the event.”

  49. Truth3 says:
    @bobhammer

    I suggest Bob take his Hammer out, shatter the glass of the box with Jewish Perfidy inside, and read up on the USS Liberty.

    When you’ve done that Bob, come back and attempt to beguile with your history.

  50. Any stone you lift you will see a Jew hiding underneath.

    • Agree: druid55
  51. Rurik says:

    There have been riots in Iran subsequent to the shooting down of the plane, blaming the government for its ineptitude.

    >>sigh<<

    A thousand 'sighs', in fact. (I did honestly, 'sigh' just now, getting ready to type this)

    You're a man I have a ton of respect for, Mr. G., and it is for that reason that I'm vexed over your characterization for why those people were/are rioting.

    For the record, it’s not because of any perceived “ineptitude” over the plane being shot down.

    No, no, no, Sir. No one that I’ve heard about or seen, has shown the slightest anger at the regime in Iran for its “ineptitude’, either perceived or otherwise.

    So let me be very clear here. What they are (justifiably) angry about, what they are rioting about, is the fact that the regime *lied* to them, about the cause of the plane crash.

    We were all lied to, when the regime in Iran demanded and insisted for days, that whatever did happen to the plane, what they could assure us, and guarantee to the world, and to the victim’s families, and to the Iranian people, and to Allah Himself, is that no one in Iran shot the plane down. That much, we were told, we can take to the bank. That, we were all told, was the one certainty Iran’s regime could guarantee the world.

    And then when it became obvious that there was proof, that Iran had shot the plane down, then they decided to tell the truth. Finally, after having lied about it for days.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-51079965

    I come to Unz, because I’m sick to death of all-pervasive, agenda-driven lies, so I know how those protesters feel, believe me.

    Some of the people in the street are clearly calling for the goal long sought by the United States and Israel, i.e. “regime change.”

    Well, if a regime wants to keep its credibility with its people, in a world where it seems everyone everywhere is a lying rat, then the thing to do is show their people that they’re not like the lying rats of the West. But rather are men who’re accountable, and honest and not given to lies.

    As for the gist of your article, I would tend to agree, that Iran’s defenses were ‘hacked’ somehow, because there’s really no other explanation for how a TOR system could have mistaken the passenger jet for a cruise missile.

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/52851.htm

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  52. @AnonStarter

    “Compare the information there with what the detractors say here.”

    Well okay. Here’s some more info I found from your source:

    https://www.sott.net/article/426279-Russian-media-show-video-of-alleged-female-bigfoot-running-by-side-of-road

    Do you think that these two stories could be connected? Have you checked it out? Earn that gold star, buddy!

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  53. Anonymous[401] • Disclaimer says:
    @bobhammer

    The “uninterruptible” autopilot can be activated – either by pilots or by on-board sensors, or by radio or satellite link<= connected to controls at the remote end. Government agencies, quasi government agencies, military brats and probably the entire group of privately operated NGOs and private party mobsters (bankers, corporations and private military armies and privateers) at the remote end, can take over control of in-flight Aircraft, and fly it, land it, take it off, whatever, even if the pilot sitting in the cockpit objects. and does all he can to retrieve control from the remote operator.

    Several comments report says interrupt able remote control, allows, persons on the ground, to take from the pilot in a flying airplane, control of the airplane the pilot is suppose to be flying, in situations for example when terrorist are in the cockpit. I have not read the manufacture's literature nor do I have personal knowledge abut the equipment list of any of these aircraft, the list suggest they are all aircraft, not only equipped with the UAP but that they were all aircraft made by the same manufacturer. I am merely repeating what was on stated as fact on a website I visited.

    Many are looking for proof that remotely equipped uninterruptible autopilots are being used as Remote Control weaponized drones. Imagine an pilot, located on the ground in London or somewhere parks his /her remote ground to air control vehicle and takes over flight control including turns on/off the transponder [<=which tells everyone where the plane is during its flight] on a plane that is flying, landing or taking off from say the Tehran airport in Iran?

    My personal experience is that it generally takes less than 2 minutes after a transponder is turned off during a planes flight, before fighter jets arrive to escort the transponder disabled plane; so the whole system that protects civilian aircraft, and allows the military to know the aircraft is civilian, is dependent on the Transponder, installed in the airplane, to continuously squawk during flight, its exact position so that everyone can identify the flight, and track the aircraft during its flight. Every land based control tower, ATC control system center and military installation depends on that airborne squawking transponder to track the en-route progress of commercial and private aircraft flights from take off to landing.

    Another comment made on that list referred to above claimed Uninterruptible Auto Pilot [UAP] equipped aircraft have been involved in unexplained flight accident/disappearance events (I have no personal knowledge about the equipment in these aircraft, I just repeated here what someone else said elsewhere, please verify these claims yourself or provide verification ) .

    (4 @911) <=UAP allows pilot-less flights, no pilot need board the plane for its flight.
    (PS752) (transponder turned off, destroyed by confused ground defense crews)
    MH370 (vanished into thin air)
    MH17 (had its flight path altered.)
    Eyes focus on Uninterruptible Auto Pilot (UAP) .. to explain recent Tehran 160 person disaster?

    This is really something to think about? Always the question has been how did four military officers from Iran, trained a few weeks in Florida to fly jets, manage to get through four differently located pilot screening TSA gates to fly the aircraft and passenger into the 9/11 events. Conspiracy theories suggest since no pilot is needed, there were no pilots for TSA to screening. Remote control on the ground flew the aircraft to their destinations.

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
    , @Alfred
  54. So, it’s back to square one as usual … how typical!

  55. Trinity says:

    “By way of deception thou shalt do war.”

    Just about says it all doesn’t it? What kind of people are we dealing with here? Of course only the morons out there are still being fooled by these kind of false flags. Even in the year 2020 these same morons still believe ZOG’s 9-11 fairy tale and label any other theory as a “conspiracy.” Speaking of conspiracies the biggest idiots out there, even bigger than the ones who believe ZOG’s narrative or those type who believe the total wacktard stuff put out by ZIO controlled disinfo puppets like Alex Jones.

    Ukrainian commercial airline? What other nation besides Iran does ZOG have it in for? Is it Russia?

    War by deception? HARDLY to anyone with two brain cells left. These fools have been caught before, they aren’t that clever. What they are is protected by a syndicate of bought and paid for politicians. They were caught attacking the USS Liberty, they were caught bombing American and British installations in Egypt, the Rosenbergs and Pollard were nailed, but of course despite all of this, America and her leaders continued the value Israel as a friend and an ally. With a friend like Israel, who needs enemies. Then of course we have the story of our 5 little dancing Israelis apprehended in NYC after being observed dancing and celebrating the WTC towers collapsing. So you mean a group of Israelis from Israel, nation that is ALLEGEDLY “friends” with America and America think it is hilarious and worth celebrating when America is attacked and thousands are burned alive or jump to their death from hundreds of feet above the street?? Of course “our” media quickly exonerated the celebrating Israelis and buried that story faster than your average house cat buries his own turds.

    ZOG really thinks the average American has the IQ of a monkey. Even after the WMD caca they still think you people will believe anything they tell you to believe. The sad part is they are right about that with the majority of the population.

    • Agree: druid55
  56. BL says:
    @AnonStarter

    Given this news, any impartial observer would at least entertain the possibility of its truth . . .

    It’s a fool’s errand to think this is susceptible to a search for the “truth.”

    As I’ve implored previously, and Giraldi assuredly knows, there is functionally no connection between the incident and the serial narratives that follow outside the interests of the relevant players.

    Lockerbie is an example of what I’m talking about here in that it sure looks like Iranian payback for the Vincennes shoot down of Iranian Flight 655, yet the USG shared Iran’s interest in accepting the “evidence” fingering Libya.

    Iran Shot It Down But There May be More to the Story

    Ya think?!

    My preferred method is to try to be rigorously circumspect. Otherwise you’re engaged in bias confirmation and, worse, unwittingly so. Admittedly, this is deeply unsatisfying to all the Scooby Doo’s who want the mask puled off before the half-hour is over.

    In the case of Epstein. while I’m not paying much attention, pretty much all is certain as far as I’m concerned is that whomever wanted him dead wanted it done very publicly and in a manner that resuscitated the whole shebang. Otherwise, we would have learned that he committed suicide, or died somehow outside the custody of the BOP.

    Ukraine Airlines Flight 752 displays early an early similarity to Khashoggi’s murder in that the Iranian government quickly — quicker than KSA — figured out that it had to acknowledge general liability, rather than suffer a drip, drip, drip of leaks that were going to end of in the same place anyway in the court of public opinion, both internationally and internally.

    The Iranian government is under immense pressure domestically. While the regime remains consolidated, it has had to use a heavy hand to keep the wheels from coming off.

    While few here are willing to accept it, Trump presents an existential challenge to the Iranian regime. Specifically because he has credibly taken a US engineered regime-change off the table. Regime-change talk and actions are a gift to adversarial governments. Allowing them to crack down internally.

    That isn’t the half of it because Trump has offered all along to negotiate. That’s the path that China chose (while keeping its Resistance options open in the hopes the Democrats would remove Trump and get back to business as usual). Instead, Iran has been betting the farm on Kerry and his seditious pals.

    • Replies: @barr
  57. @bobhammer

    We’ve seen a lot of one-and-done sockpuppets come and go through this forum, and you appear to be yet another one of them — which is to say, I believe you about as far as I can throw you.

    FWIW, I’m not a Democrat.

  58. In my opinion, the Mossad or the CIA or both in a joint hack took control of the planes flight control system, which can be done on all Boeing planes as they have a piggyback back door to allow the flight system to be taken over remotely and flown just like a drone, the excuse that was given for this was that the plane could be taken control of and flown in case of a hijacking, when Germany found out about this , they had the remote control system removed from all Boeing planes that they had purchased, this system has been in Boeing planes since the 1990’s.

    I believe this is what happened and the Iranians thought the plane was a drone and shot it down, and whoever shot the video was in on the plot as they knew when it was going to take place and had the camera ready.

  59. El Dato says:

    An adventurous theory.

    IMHO, the only part where the Israelis inserted themselves into this matter was in placing the initial phone call to Mr Loose Screw In Chief himself, to schedule the killing of the general. Then saying officially that it’s a “US matter” while biting their lower lip.

    No way Trump, hapless Esper (a walking suit of unctuous stupidity who now “discovers” nazi-like kill powers in the constitution’s 2nd article; apparently the Supreme Court is no longer needed to discover “new powers” in that text) and Mafia Death Manatee of Deterrence Pompeo would have come up with this hit on their own.

    Worse part is Congress. The fact that half the admin is still in their chairs by now tells everything you need to know about that rotten ensemble of imperial bantz.

    There are also a lot of things being said by the fact that no effing “whistleblower” sitting somewhere on the command chain of Operation Total Clusterfuck Showing the Military as Fool’s Tool has come forward till now.

    • Replies: @Tucker
  60. Realist says:
    @bobhammer

    …a cowardly murderer of friends of mine,…

    What were your friends doing in the middle east?

    Cool down…drink some more Kool-aid.

    • Replies: @Herald
  61. @bobhammer

    So, bobhammer, Soleimani was a “cowardly murderer of your friends.” Who, I ask, were the unwanted invaders ordered into these Middle East countries? You and your friends were!

    By all laws of war, it is the right of the invaded people to repel, and kill, if necessary, those unwanted invaders who are out to create death, destruction, and regime change in their countries. Soleimani didn’t murder your friends. He killed them (big difference from murder) while fighting against the foreign aggressor, which you and your friends were.

    As a Vietnam Era veteran myself, I am sorry for your loss, but who really murdered your friends? Look no further than those who sent them there to fight needless wars, which only weaken our country.

    • Agree: Desert Fox, Rurik, nickels
  62. Pindos says:
    @Anon

    Wrong anon

    Identification, friend or foe (IFF) is a radar-based identification system designed for command and control. It uses a transponder that listens for an interrogation signal and then sends a response that identifies the broadcaster. It enables military and civilian air traffic control interrogation systems to identify aircraft, vehicles or forces as friendly and to determine their bearing and range from the interrogator. IFF may be used by both military and civilian aircraft.

    • Replies: @anon
  63. @Anonymous

    My, my, anonymous # 401, I am thankful for your meaningful & professional comment to which you humbly shared originated in “My personal experience.” 🤗

    At any rate, & responding with due respect #401, 👍, the conveyed learning experience suggests to me, a Scranton School bus driver, that you know commenting anonymously either here at U.R. articles or elsewhere, continues to leave one open to slick international surveillance operatives; i.e, Unit 800 “evildoers.”

    Bottom line; Meanwhile, I have no choice but to relish in your practical & scientific knowledge.

    Nonetheless, shall now offer you a dip into the Zion Twilight Zone?
    Video linked below & along with creepy music, 👹displays —
    The Heavy Hitter (Jew), Arnon Milchan-produced & spinoff from his weird & popular cable TalmudVision “hit,” The X-Files, and it’s convenient March 2001,😲 release of the innagural (“Predictive Programming”) episode of the show called “The Lone Gunman.” Thanks a lot, & happy trail destinations to you, #401. Uh, until we meet again?

  64. @bobhammer

    with smoke pouring out of their ears

    who was one of the most despicable humans on the planet, a cowardly murderer of friends of mine

    accused the President of ordering the murder of almost 200 Innocents

    We Had To Destroy Fallujah in Order to Save It!

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @druid55
  65. Trinity says:

    “They are jealous of our way of life.”
    “Let us never tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories concerning the attacks of 9-11.”

    Lest we forget.

  66. I do not know much. But as far as I do know aircraft ha no transponder. Only airports have a transponders. Transponder is sending data about azimuth angle and location to dashboard of the pilot. Pilot also has a vocal communication with a tower.
    Once pilot reached desirable cruising height and correct azimuth angle pilot at will may stop all communications with tower. Once nearing the next available tower he usually contacts that tower and switches to new transponder receiving the signals of location and azimuth angle from that tower.

    • Replies: @Alfred
  67. Alfred says:
    @Reality Check

    What makes you think that Flightradar24 is a dependable source of accurate raw data?

  68. Just a terrific piece of informed speculation.

    Quite plausible.

    It suggests, too, as with the turning off of everyone’s electricity in Venezuela, how dangerous and effective cyber-warfare can be.

    And secretive. Certainly, something which appeals to a country which has long used all kinds of proxies and false-flag operations, the United States.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  69. unit472 says:

    If such a capability exists would the US reveal and use it in such a minor circumstance. Occam’s razor suggests this was just another case of ‘better safe than sorry’ during a time of military tensions. Not a whole lot different than the Vincennes shootdown of an Iranian airliner that came too close during a military confrontation in the Gulf.

    I would hate to know how many ‘friendly’ aircraft were shot down by over zealous AAA gunners in WW2 but it wasn’t just a handful.

    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @Brewer
  70. Alfred says:
    @Anonymous

    how did four military officers from Iran, trained a few weeks in Florida to fly jets, manage to get through four differently located pilot screening TSA gates to fly the aircraft and passenger into the 9/11 events

    Please keep Iran out of 9/11. They had nothing to do with it.

    I believe you meant to write:

    how did four military officers from Saudi Arabia, trained a few weeks in Florida to fly jets, manage to get through four differently located pilot screening TSA gates to fly the aircraft and passenger into the 9/11 events

    • Replies: @Herald
  71. Onlooker says:
    @Anon

    I make no claims of inside knowledge or superior expertise. I merely refer to claims made by the U.S. military that it has lots of high tech wizzbang stuff that it is able to use but will not share or describe due to national security considerations. Reports say the airliner turned off or appeared to the operators to have turned off its identification and then changed course, indicators that were suspicious. Reports also indicate that there was significant interference with communications between the operators of Iranian defense facilities and Iranian military command, the sort of tactic electronic countermeasures are purported to execute. Kind of like what happened on 9/11. Kind of like one version of electronic countermeasures used in modern fighter jets. Is it possible or are we all being fooled by the U.S. military and the U.S. President when they claim to have the best military with the best equipment and capabilities? It is clear that the Iranian operator had to assess a perceived threat in a complicated and confused situation, then did his job as best he could.

    • Replies: @Momus
  72. What do you think of this explanation in this video?

    “Terror-attack against Iran reason for plane crash?”

    • Replies: @Klaus Fejsa
  73. Rurik says:
    @John Chuckman

    And secretive. Certainly, something which appeals to a country which has long used all kinds of proxies and false-flag operations, the United States.

    I suppose you were trying to be ironical, huh.

    Everyone with a scintilla of grey matter knows who is fighting a proxy war on ((whose)) behalf

    IOW, the U.S. is engaged, and has been for over a hundred years, in fighting proxy wars for Israel, (even when Israel was just a fanciful gleam in Louis Brandeis’ supremacist eye).

    And you no doubt are referring to the Lavon Affair, and the USS Liberty and 9/11, with your wry suggestion that these were American false flags, and not the work of cowardly and treacherous Zionists. As we all now know.

    Keep up the great sarcasm, Cuckman. We all need a little chuckle from time to time.

  74. Wally says:
    @Colin Wright

    Of course it was the many Obama attacks which establised precedent for Trump’s actions.

    Yet empty suit Obama gets a pass.

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
    , @Skeptikal
  75. Sometimes innocent people cop a plea to lesser charges rather than go to trial and risk being convicted of much more serious offenses.

  76. druid55 says:
    @Lot

    Persistent Troll!
    And Jews having a big hand in it is not far-fetched! It’s their smelly history!!!

  77. @AnonStarter

    Mr Giraldi is a crackpot.

    • Troll: AnonStarter
  78. A1 says:

    On the transponder – a comment in the second source you cited states the the transponder went out AFTER and DUE TO the first missile strike. If this is the case, and you are aware of this, then you are doing some distortion of your own perhaps?

  79. scrub says:

    Anybody who thinks that US-Israel wouldn’t have been capable of staging such a horrific event as the shooting down of the airliner by Iran hasn’t been following Whitney Webb’s continuing articles which are available right here on UNZ. Israel seems to have insinuated itself into about every computer security program worldwide.

    Webb’s article mentions large scale defense contractor Dell Computer’s close connection to the Israeli government. Dell computer head Michael Dell has personally made large contributions to that curious “charity” called The Friends of The Israeli Defense Forces as has Larry Ellison, head or Oracle Software. Interestingly enough, neither of them have made correspondingly large contributions to American veterans however.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friends_of_the_Israel_Defense_Forces

    Michael Dell is probably one of the biggest (or the biggest) single contributors to the Republicans from Texas, home of Dell computer. Larry Ellison (also a large government computer contractor) is also one of the Republican Party’s biggest contributors.

    Ellison’s $5.5 million dollar contribution to the Republican is dwarfed however, by his recent contributions to The Friends of the Israeli Defense Forces which seem to total (as of today) $31 million (or more).

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/record-53-8-million-raised-for-idf-soldiers-at-beverly-hills-gala/

    Are both men and their companies security risks? Is there any doubt of this or are contribution to charity connected to a foreign army now simply to be considered as being benign and innocent.

    • Agree: Iris
  80. @Wally

    🙄 As typical, Stilted Wally opined: “Of course it was the many Obama attacks which establised precedent for Trump’s actions.
    Yet empty suit Obama gets a pass.”

    (Zigh)

    Of course you gave a pass to the Republican ZUS Neocon president, G.W. Bush, for setting a GWOT precedent for Obama’s unnecessary & immoral attacks.

    Get consistent Holo Wall, or Codah gives you a pass
    into Mar a Lago oblivion. Haha.

  81. barr says:
    @BL

    “That isn’t the half of it because Trump has offered all along to negotiate. That’s the path that China chose ..”

    China is different. If Taiwanese lobby or say Indian lobby were that effective, Trump would have been made sure by the lobby groups working with media and other civic entities ,and Congress that “China would not accept the conditions of any meeting let alone any negotiations”.

    USA can negotiate but it cant It can get a fair deal but it is not allowed and wont be .
    Saddam was offering all sorts of deals to USA with practical surrender in 2002 and 2003 asking for money and immunity .

  82. anonymous[290] • Disclaimer says:
    @gotmituns

    If the false flag involves you as a victim, I am all for it.

  83. anonymous[290] • Disclaimer says:
    @bobhammer

    I take it you still believe in the Iraq WMDs crock of shit?

  84. anon[230] • Disclaimer says:
    @Pindos

    Wrong anon

    Identification, friend or foe (IFF) is a radar-based identification system designed for command and control. It uses a transponder that listens for an interrogation signal and then sends a response that identifies the broadcaster. It enables military and civilian air traffic control interrogation systems to identify aircraft, vehicles or forces as friendly and to determine their bearing and range from the interrogator. IFF may be used by both military and civilian aircraft.

    Your Wikipedia snippet is absolutely incorrect. IFF is only used for Military Aircraft. If you want to prove me wrong:

    Provide a link to any civilian transponder with IFF capability
    Provide a link to any civilian aircraft Minimum Equipment List that requires an IFF

    • Agree: Alfred
  85. barr says:
    @Lot

    If it were a civilian or military plane of say Lebanese or Ukraine or Syria instead of a Russia military plane that was shot down by Syrian missile , we would be still hounding Syria in international forum for wilful murder of the innocents .

  86. Rurik says:
    @unit472

    Vincennes shootdown of an Iranian airliner that came too close during a military confrontation in the Gulf.

    Doesn’t it rile you, as a U.S. veteran, that American soldiers are dying in treasonous service to an enemy nation?

    Doesn’t it bother you in the least, that Americans are on the hook for untold trillions of dollars, so they can slaughter innocent people, thousands of miles away, whose only “crime” is that a certain shitty little country, wants to see them all sent reeling into the stone age, (which is exactly what they want for you too).

    Have y0u ever bothered to notice just exactly whom it is that is driving all the liberal-progressive shit we all see daily, with the ubiquitous homomania and Hollywood sewage force-injected into America’s culture?

    I see you occasionally speak against that stuff, but then when it comes to American soldiers dying on behalf of those rats, there you are, defending the narrative of Iran as bad guys.

    How many Iranians do you see pumping Hollywood sewage into America’s veins?

    How many Iranians do you see on Capital Hill, demanding Trump and all his Deplorables are irredeemably racists? And need to have their guns taken away?

    How many Iranians do you see at Goldman Sachs, (and the other ‘Too big to fail Banksters) looting the country dry?

    How many Iranians do you see in our universities, force-feeding America’s youth the progressive-liberal monkey shit, they’re paying to consume daily?

    You’d have to be very myopic not to notice who it is behind America’s depraved descent into cultural and spiritual guano. (not to mention the Eternal Wars, that only an imbecile could pretend not to notice ((who)) are behind them).

    And I have a clue for you, it isn’t the Iranians. In fact, they had a nice good taste of ((Western)) culture under the Shah, and they decided they’d rather not see their women whored out, and their children spiritually dead husks.

    It’d be good if people could lift the veils they willfully allow to cover their own eyes, in some kind of misguided machismo about how tough “our” military are, as they’re killing and dying on behalf of their worst enemy.

  87. Alfred says:
    @Ilyana_Rozumova

    I do not know much

    I agree. That is the only part of your comment that is valid. Please do not clutter up this place with nonsense. Kindly leave the technical details to people who know more than you and I. Thank you. 🙂

  88. Herald says:
    @bobhammer

    Your ludicrous description of Soleimani, is all we need to see, to know you are talking shit and bigs heaps of it at that.

    You are almost certainly trolling here and can be safely ignored.

  89. barr says:
    @JimDandy

    Hpw did the instruction to “Fly direct” prove fatal to MH 17

    MUMBAI: The ministry of civil aviation’s claim that there was no Air India flight near the ill-fated Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 when it was shot down over Ukraine on Thursday appears misleading.
    An Air India Dreamliner flight going from Delhi to Birmingham was in fact less than 25km away from the Malaysian aircraft,

    Minutes before the crash caused by a missile strike, the AI pilots had also heard the controller give the Malaysian aircraft MH17 what is called “a direct routing”. This permits an aircraft to fly straight, instead of tracking the regular route which is generally a zig-zag track that goes from one ground-based navigation aid or way point to another. “Direct routing saves fuel and time and is preferred by pilots. In this case, it proved fatal,” said an airline source.

    https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Air-India-flight-was-90-seconds-away-when-missile-struck-Malaysia-Airlines-Flight-MH17/articleshowprint/38702536.cms

    1 Was India pressurized to deny the close proximity and 2 was it under pressure to deny that it heard the controller giving the instruction to MH 17????

  90. Herald says:
    @Alfred

    Well spotted and your clarification was indeed very necessary.

    • Thanks: Alfred
  91. Herald says:
    @Realist

    His friends, if he ever had any, would have been there to murder the local inhabitants, in the endless quest for someone else’s oil, while placating our best friend Bibi, at the same time.

    • Replies: @Realist
  92. romar says:
    @Sean

    Sean,
    Don’t waste your time: we can think for ourselves. Give up on your addiction smears: they don’t wash.

    • Replies: @Sean
  93. Saggy says: • Website
    @Anon

    http://www.dean-boys.com/extras/iff/iffqa.html

    FAA regulations require that all aircraft, military or civilian, flying at an altitude of 10,000 feet or higher in U.S. controlled airspace, must be equipped with an operating IFF transponder system capable of automatic altitude reporting (this is the reason that two of the modes are used by both military and civilian aircraft).

    So, did the Ukrainian plane have an IFF transponder or not? Ref?

    • Replies: @A123
    , @DaveE
    , @Saggy
    , @anonymous
  94. DaveE says:

    Judging by the number of hasbarists commenting today, I hereby award Mr. Giraldi this week’s Academy Award for Best Neurotic Jew Documentary.

    I hope we can continue to “shoot them down” faster than they shoot down our planes, false-flag style.

    You’ve certainly done your part, yet again, Mr. Giraldi. Thank you, Sir.

    • Agree: Alfred, Republic
  95. Skeptikal says:
    @Wally

    For once I agree with Wally.

  96. BL says:

    I mentioned China for a discrete, limited purpose. Many countries, allies and adversaries alike, would have preferred to wait for Trump to be removed after he took the oath than negotiate with him on that which they were wholly satisfied with the status quo. This has been most evident on trade, per his global trade reset (e.g. Japan; South Korea; Mexico/Canada; EU).

    Each has had to balance their desire to wait him out with the costs and risks of doing so in lieu of negotiating.

    At this point I don’t think it’s even a debatable question, Iran has disastrously executed its foreign relations since Trump became President. This didn’t surprise me because, besides China, it had the most to lose from reopening negotiations over, in effect, its spectacular gains between 2003-16.

  97. Realist says:
    @Herald

    His friends, if he ever had any, would have been there to murder the local inhabitants, in the endless quest for someone else’s oil, while placating our best friend Bibi, at the same time.

    Yes, exactly my point.

  98. @Rurik

    I’ve tried menioning the Israeli connection to people in real-life and on the comments sections of mainstream news outlets in a respectful and non-hateful manners. Usually I get weird looks or in the comments section people call you and ‘anti-Semite’. Mentioning Israel seems to be like mentioning shape-shifting lizards, they are both seen as tropes used by misinformed and nutty people. Many average people will just shut off once you mention Israel or Zionists.

    The Jewish PR machine has sure did a good job conditioning the people is all I can say.

    • Replies: @DaveE
    , @Rurik
    , @Ron Unz
    , @Lot
    , @Parfois1
  99. The guy with the camera aimed up into a dark sky on that morning worked for a Saudi Arabia news service. From the “grayzone” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBGw5GMXb4c&feature=em-uploademail

    • Replies: @Sean
    , @Franklin Ryckaert
  100. @Wizard of Oz

    One of your most reasonable and insightful comments. It’s not often I can say this. Keep it up!

  101. wdg says:

    Cui bono? Israel and its NeoCon fifth column operating in the US and throughout the western world.

    • Replies: @JimDandy
  102. Trinity says:
    @Rurik

    Anyone who doesn’t see that America, Canada, Australia, and Europe are under Jewish control and have been for a century and counting has to be legally blind, deaf and dumb, either that or they don’t want to see the obvious. I still can’t fathom how anyone, even the Bible thumping Christian Zionists who seem to worship Jews more than Jesus Christ to our brave men and women in uniform can not see through this bullshit.

    Like you mentioned, the same tribe that Americans are willing to die for are the same tribe that wishes to destroy Western Culture and genocide Whites through forced assimilation and flooding our nations with hordes of hostile nonwhites from the third world. It is so damn pathetic that a great deal of Whites can’t see through this shit. Some prepubescent kid in some turd world cesspool can tell you that Jews and Israel OWN America and the rest of the West, but far too many Americans are STILL clueless despite all the information out there that makes it totally obvious that Jews dictate not only “our” foreign policies but “our” domestic policies as well.

    IF what is happening to America/Europe were made into some science fiction movie and it portrayed Whites acting this stupid, the people wouldn’t buy it for a second. Are White Gentiles really this stupid?? Are these the same people who invented the automobile, the airplane, television, built America, etc.? My God, what has happened to white people?

  103. Iris says:
    @Quartermaster

    what Giraldi has published doesn’t even rise to the level of the most idiotic conspiracy theory one can concoct.

    It happened only a few months ago that an Israeli jet violated Syria’s airspace and deliberately sheltered behind a Russian Iliouchine IL-20 to get it shot down by Syrian air defence.

    It was so very clearly and simply explained by the Russian Chief of Staff than any imbecile could understand it; the idiot is definitely you.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45556290

    • Thanks: Parfois1
  104. druid55 says:
    @Adam Smith

    Wow, I hope these photos haunt these bastards for the rest of their lives! WE live in a scik country!

    • Replies: @Adam Smith
  105. A123 says:
    @Saggy

    I believe you are correct.

    https://www.raytheon.com/capabilities/products/iff

    My understanding is:

    A civilian transponder will respond to almost any inquiry (or even a non-coded radar pulse):
    — Standard civilian transponder code = USA military Mode 3.
    — Standard civilian transponder altitude reporting = USA military Mode C.

    To reduce detectability in combat, the pilot can change the setting on a Military IFF system to only squawk when a correctly coded interrogation signal is recieved.

    PEACE 😇

  106. Nero says:

    Wouldn’t there have been other missile sites stationed nearby to confirm an imminent threat?

  107. DaveE says:
    @Saggy

    What the HELL would be the point of having an IFF transponder if it was OPTIONAL???

    “Oh, never mind that plane that just nuked Seattle. We would have shot it down, but the poor airline couldn’t afford the IFF option, so we took a long lunch break instead.”

    • Replies: @anon
  108. Saggy says: • Website
    @Saggy

    Moon Of Alabama has the story –

    https://www.moonofalabama.org/2020/01/was-the-shootdown-of-the-ukrainian-airplane-near-tehran-really-a-mistake.html

    The Boeing jet broadcast the usual civil ADS-B signal but one has to expect that a U.S. cruise missile can and would do the same.

    although … ‘one can expect … ‘ seems like one hell of an assumption.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  109. DaveE says:
    @Just passing through

    Most Americans are just too dumb, ignorant and/or ashamed to admit they know NOTHING about the history of zionism and its filthy manifestation(s).

    Mostly, they scurry away, afraid to say anything for fear of looking stupid. Which they are.

    It used to be that we could blame the Jew-infested “educational” system for filling our heads with lies, but with the advent of the Internet, there’s just no excuse anymore.

  110. Transponders are turned on and off with switches in the cockpit. Is Giraldi suggesting that this transponder was equipped to be controlled from outside? Source of assertion that transponder was turned off? Can he name any commercial transponder with this feature? Does he know anythng about elctroic warfare? This sounds like the birthing of a conspiracy theory.

    • Replies: @Iris
    , @FB
    , @ploni almoni
    , @anonymous
  111. JimDandy says:
    @wdg

    But what is the benefit, exactly? It makes Iran look like a country that fucked up under pressure?

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  112. Robjil says:
    @Trinity

    The six million story has hypnotized white Euro people since 1945. It has been endlessly pounded into our heads by our free “Zion controlled” press. That is the Achilles heel that is destroying white Euro culture world wide.

    The six million story is so “Big” that it overwhelms anything else that ever happened in the entire history of the planet. It is like a new sun.

    At least in Galileo’s time, he had only to swallow the story that the earth was the center of the universe. In our time since 1945, we have to swallow that the 6 million story is the center of the entire universe and forever now, it never ends.

    This is the centerpiece that is killing white Euro culture worldwide. If white Euro is totally killed off by the Zion “free” press, I see no hope for Zion. Non Euros are not going to fall for the 6 million story as the center of the universe.

    This 6 million story allows Zion/Jewish culture to tower over all things in the world with impunity. It can’t be looked at, criticized or even noticed. It would be anti- S to do so. This is the strength of the Zion Jewish Mafia, one can not speak about it. It grows in darkness. Light, speaking about it out loud everywhere, would destroy it in one second.

    Israel takes full advantage of this power of silence about the antics of the Zion/Jewish Mafia. This latest Ukrainian plane downing has all the fingerprints of Israeli first tactics at work.

    When I heard that a Ukrainian plane was hit, it had to be a Zion game. Nuland’s Ukraine has been involved with two big Zion “free” press events already. One, the 2014 downing of the Malaysian plane in Ukraine and secondly the 2019 Impeachment of Trump. This would the third. Things usually come in threes.

    The world now with its code of silence for Zion is like a huge concentration camp. The sign on the gates would be Zion Macht Frei. That is what Zion pushes in its “frei” press.

    • Replies: @Just passing through
  113. Brewer says:
    @unit472

    the Vincennes shootdown of an Iranian airliner that came too close during a military confrontation in the Gulf.

    I don’t see how you reached that particular conclusion.

    The Iranian government has maintained that Vincennes knowingly shot down the civilian aircraft.[7] Iran Air Flight IR655 flew every day out of Bandar Abbas—a civil as well as military airport—on a scheduled passenger flight to Dubai using established air lanes. The Italian navy and another U.S. warship, the frigate Sides, confirmed that the plane was climbing—not diving to attack—at the time of the missile strike. The U.S. radio warnings were only broadcast on 121.5 MHz, not air traffic control frequencies and mistakenly identified the altitude and position of the plane, so the Airbus crew, if they were monitoring “guard,” could have misinterpreted the warnings as referring to another aircraft. Captain David Carlson of Sides later said that the destruction of the airliner “marked the horrifying climax to Rogers’ aggressiveness”.
    – Wikipedia

    The ICA0 Report States that information about commercial flights using A59 was available on board the Vincennes, which had the civil flight schedule current as of 28 June 1988 in its Combat Information Centre 3.
    Since the published flight schedule was available and known to the Vincennes on the morning of 3 July 1988 just before IR 655 took off, the Vincennes knew that IR 655 was expected to pass over at any moment en route to Dubai, but that it had not yet done so 4 It was the only flight due to leave Bandar Abbas across the Persian Gulf early that morning.
    According to the time-table available on board the Vincennes, IR 655 was scheduled to transit the Persian Gulf between 0620 and 0715. As a matter of fact, IR 655 was
    within this schedule when it ‘was destroyed by the Vincennes ..
    – ICC report

    On the morning of 3 July 1988, the United States had positioned three powerful warships inside the Islamic Republic’s territorial waters in the vicinity of
    airway A59.
    These were the Vincennes, the Sides and the Elmer Montqomery, an anti-‘submarine frigate.
    – ICC report

    https://web.archive.org/web/20130717223406/http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/files/79/6629.pdf

    In view of the fact that (a), the flight was on track and known to be by the crew of Vincennes and (b), The Vincennes was illegally well inside Iran’s territorial waters, I suggest that “came too close during a military confrontation in the Gulf” is pure poppycock.

    • Agree: Alfred
    • Replies: @ivan
  114. @DaveE

    The hilarious thing in Britain is that many people on the comments sections of MSM will talk about ‘Asian’ or more specifically ‘Muslim’ child rape gangs, because these gangs were heavily Muslim they can be referred to using the adjective ‘Muslim’.

    But when you point out that the ones beating the drums for war in Iran and who successfully plunged America and UK into a long a protracted war in the Middle East are mostly Jewish, as evidenced by this article in the Israeli newspaper Haaretz

    …they start getting all pissy, because of the Holocaust legend, Jews are now above scrutiny and Jewish power cannot be talked about. It is the slipperly slope fallacy, what is merely being advocated for here is not to trust a single thing that comes out of the mouth of a Jew regarding the Middle East as there is a clear conflict of interest, not genocide.

    I also suspect that peoples understandable antagonism towards Muslims has somehow made them more sympathetic to Israel. Tommy Robinson is for example funded by rich Jews like Ezra Levant of Rebel Media and Robert J. Shillman – who sits on the board of Friends of Israel Defence Forces – shills for Israel. Now the Western goyim start frothing at the mouth when they hear Muslim and so think countries like Iran are evil and out to destory the West, a laughable claim.

  115. Iris says:
    @Z-man

    stupid Christian Zionist dogma

    You don’t have to apologise. Christian Zionists are no Christians; they are uncultured, criminal country-bumpkins utilised by their Zionist handlers to justify the destruction of the twice-millenary Christian Arab community.

    Here is what real Christians think:
    Mor Maurice Amsih, Syrian Orthodox Bishop of Euphrates, demonstrating against the murder of General Soleimani, calling Soleimani and his companions “ martyrs ” who are now “ Saints in the Heavenly Kingdom” for their blood shed freeing the Syrian people from Zio-sponsored terrorists. [@ 0:25]

    • Thanks: Z-man, ChuckOrloski
    • Replies: @Z-man
  116. Anonymous[230] • Disclaimer says:
    @Saggy

    Moon Of Alabama has the story –

    https://www.moonofalabama.org/2020/01/was-the-shootdown-of-the-ukrainian-airplane-near-tehran-really-a-mistake.html

    The Boeing jet broadcast the usual civil ADS-B signal but one has to expect that a U.S. cruise missile can and would do the same.

    although … ‘one can expect … ‘ seems like one hell of an assumption.

    This is absolutely irrelevant since the Iranian SAM missile launcher is so old it can not even detect and decode ADS-B signals. Note that the requirement for ADS-B transponders only came into effect this year.

  117. Some additional information to consider:

    IRGC Releases Details of Accidental Downing of Ukrainian Plane

    https://ifpnews.com/irgc-releases-details-of-accidental-downing-of-ukrainian-plane

    By the account of Brigadier General Amir-Ali Hajizadeh:

    1. Prior to the downing of the aircraft, Americans had threatened to hit 52 sites in Iran.
    2. These threats placed Iran’s air defense systems on the highest alert level.
    3. There were reports that cruise missles had been fired at Iran.
    4. In spite of IRGC requests that airspace be cleared of commercial flights, those requests were not met.
    5. The air defense unit recognized Flight 752 as a cruise missle from a distance of 19 kilometers, but is still required to get approval to fire upon it.
    6. When the operator attempts to get approval, he can not do so due to “disruption” of his communication system.
    7. The operator is forced to make an independent decision in a 10 second window of time and fires upon the plane.

    Russell Bentley, however, states that

    1. the SA-15 system has an IFF interrogator built into its radar system,
    2. Boeing 737 aircraft are equipped with two IFF transponders, which are set and activated prior to take off, and
    3. it is possible for a plane to take off without an IFF transponder operating.
    4. In spite of all this, the flight’s recording on FLIGHTRADAR24.COM, proves that the transponder was on and working.
    5. Even if there was no IFF signal, a SA-15/TOR M-1 operator could still determine the location, bearing, speed and size of the potential target.
    6. The SA-15 also has an automatic all weather day/night NV/IR Electro Optical Targeting System (EOTS) used for target engagement and fire control by which the plane would have been easily identified.
    7. Flight 752 should have been identifiable as a commercial airliner by its external lights alone.

    From this information, he concludes that either there are traitors within Iran seeking to facilitate regime change or that the downing of Flight 752 was a false flag operation perpetrated by the usual suspects.

    I’d like to see more information about this topic from those qualified to speak about it.

    • Replies: @A123
    , @anonymous
  118. JOHN ZAC says:

    Civil unrest or maybe a civil war toppling the priests may be the goal in Iran. Whether by design or by nature it looks as if the middle east and parts of north africa are quickly becoming inhabitable. Its sad that they couldn’t build stable governments that sustained their cultures. Yes US involvement played a big role here, but there’s plenty of blame to go around. Did anyone care about building a better place for their children?

  119. @Trinity

    Anyone who doesn’t see that America, Canada, Australia, and Europe are under Jewish control and have been for a century and counting has to be legally blind, deaf and dumb, either that or they don’t want to see the obvious. I still can’t fathom how anyone, even the Bible thumping Christian Zionists who seem to worship Jews more than Jesus Christ to our brave men and women in uniform can not see through this bullshit.

    Unless you have grown up with a family member who is aware of these things, it is kind of hard to see it without some help, help from sites like Unz and other alternate media. Many people are very clueless about politics and the ones that do care are mostly confined to places like Reddit where they argue back-and-forth about pointless things like transgenderism and Donald Trump ‘owning the Libs’. I personally had some ideas of Jewish power but dismissed these as anti-semitic crackpottery until the Jeremy Corbyn anti-semitism saga started, it was a real surprise to see the intensity of attack being directed against someone whose only crime was opposing Israel, the fact that the grievances of 0.5% of the population, most of whom are very privileged in terms of income and opportunities due to a wide and influential network, were suddenly being aired in national newspapers.

    Like you mentioned, the same tribe that Americans are willing to die for are the same tribe that wishes to destroy Western Culture and genocide Whites through forced assimilation and flooding our nations with hordes of hostile nonwhites from the third world. It is so damn pathetic that a great deal of Whites can’t see through this shit. Some prepubescent kid in some turd world cesspool can tell you that Jews and Israel OWN America and the rest of the West, but far too many Americans are STILL clueless despite all the information out there that makes it totally obvious that Jews dictate not only “our” foreign policies but “our” domestic policies as well.

    Most Whites subconscously think of those types of people as ‘stupid’ or ‘brainwashed by Islam’, thus they see the support of the ZOG theory by these types of people as evidence of its absurdity, I mean surely only a raving Islamic fanatic would think the West is owned by Jews right?…

    IF what is happening to America/Europe were made into some science fiction movie and it portrayed Whites acting this stupid, the people wouldn’t buy it for a second. Are White Gentiles really this stupid?? Are these the same people who invented the automobile, the airplane, television, built America, etc.? My God, what has happened to white people?

    Your mistake is assuming Whites as a group are somehow smart just because those inventions were invented by White males, most Whites are not very smart and only the creamy layer do the heavy lifting, Whites are still participating in new discoveries and innovations, you just don’t hear about it because these new things are very obscure and technical as opposed to things like the car.

    In many way White people are far more gullible than any other race, after the press lied about WMD’s in Iraq, you would have thought that most people would stop believing a word they said, but they still fall for all the lies about Iran.

    • Agree: Colin Wright
  120. anon[230] • Disclaimer says:
    @DaveE

    @Saggy

    What the HELL would be the point of having an IFF transponder if it was OPTIONAL???

    “Oh, never mind that plane that just nuked Seattle. We would have shot it down, but the poor airline couldn’t afford the IFF option, so we took a long lunch break instead.”

    IFFs are military only equipment which use classified technology. A commercial airliner could not buy an IFF even if it wanted to.

    • Replies: @DaveE
  121. Sean says:
    @Marvin Sandnes

    No mystery, his job was to be there when US cruise missiles arrived as expected retaliation for the half a ton warhead missiles fired by Iran at a US base hours before in retaliation for the drone assassination of Iran’s hero. At al-Asad camp, the drone operators housing was destroyed. If the troops are all in shelters they cannot defend the base from a ground attack so it was a pretty effective demonstration of how Iran could use its ballistic missiles.

    Surely no Israeli operation this difficult would be mounted without it achieving something very valuable. I don’t understand why Israelis might have wanted to trick Iran into that shootdown. If anything, the disaster has halted the tit for tat and escalation between Trump and the Iranian leadership . Having got their fingers burned in confrontation, they probably are probably begining to toy with the idea of a modus vivendi to protect their respective political hindquarters.

    In a nutshell, this whole thing did not work out to Israel’s advantage, and that would have been predictable beforehand. Using state of the art ECM for duping Iran into shooting down an airliner that had just taken off from own airport does not sound like the best way to use such a capability (and it could only be used once for such an op). I think a false flag would be done to make the country being incriminated look cunning and malevolent rather than stupid and hapless.

  122. @Robjil

    This is the centerpiece that is killing white Euro culture worldwide. If white Euro is totally killed off by the Zion “free” press, I see no hope for Zion. Non Euros are not going to fall for the 6 million story as the center of the universe.

    Some interesting graphs

    http://theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/05/the-world-is-full-of-holocaust-deniers/370870/

    Percentage who have heard of the Holocaust

    You could argue ther rate of Holocaust ‘denial’ amongst Muslims is due to religious and Israel reasons, thus it is motivated by antagonism towards Jews. But the same cannot be said about Hindus, in fact when surveyed, more Indians had a positive view of Israel than Americans

    https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3696887,00.html

    But rates of Holocaust ‘denial’ amongst them are even higher than amongst Muslims, it is perhaps that the whole story is so absurd to the neutral observer who has not been inculcated with its axiomatic truth?

    • Replies: @Robjil
  123. Iris says:
    @Frederick V. Reed

    This sounds like the birthing of a conspiracy theory.

    General aviation transponders produce a reply signal to air traffic secondary radars at the standard, known frequency of 1,090 MHz; hence they are easy to jam and make disappear from outside.

    “Switch off” or “disappear” amounts to exactly the same, unless one is an automation engineer trying to be pedantic.

  124. roonaldo says:

    There are certainly suspicious circumstances to this. U.S-Israeli strategy may have been primarily to gather intel on Iranian radars, communications, and command/control networks, with any shootdown an an added propaganda windfall.

    A great read: “Shootdown: Flight 007 and the American Connection,” 1983, by R.W. Johnson. We’ve been at this type of dirty business a long time.

  125. Sean says:
    @romar

    I think Israel now operates by soft power mainly.These egregious false flags people here believe in would damage Israel’s strong suit. American has so much in the way of military force and intelligence agencies that all Israel needs to do is lead with organised Jewry inside America and it achieves its objectives that way. Even nukes are a form of soft power for Israel (‘give us what we want or we will need to go nuclear’).

  126. Pandora says:

    ADS-B (mandatory in US from 2020) automatically broadcasts data, dependent on installed sensors on board (better then PSR/SSR radar ?– not really)

    • Anyone with an ADS-B receiver has access to real-time flight data
    • Accuracy: position 92,6 m / velocity 10m/s Update: every second (1 Mbps) ADS-B out
    • Very vulnerable to Electronic Warfare (no encryption, open protocol)

    When ADS-B was developed 1980s-90s the primary focus was reliability, accuracy, range, operational capacity etc.

    SECURITY was not an issue: FAA conducted a SCAP study (Security Certification & Accreditation Procedures) but the results were never published; instead the FAA stated “no increased risk when using ADS-B data …

    NAVIGATION DATA generated from GPS also vulnerable to DOS-attacks (“jamming”) and signal-counterfeiting (“spoofing”)

    2012: FAA conducts threat-evaluation regarding GNSS (Global Nav Sat Systems)- … again results not published

    ADS-B broadcasts can be used to target passenger AC for kinetic, electronic attack (i.e. “malicious injection”)

    Near perfect FORGERIES of authentic GPS SIGNALS are easily made; there are no security provisions (encryption etc.) GPS signal definition is publicly available

    E.g. (this really happened) FALSE POSITION CUES sent from a spoofing device to a (100 k USD) drone POS SIGNAL: “rising vertically upward”
    • REACTION: UAV descending to “maintain altitude”
    • RESULT: UAV crash (lesson not learned: computers are not – and will never be – thinking human brains)

    Without a GPS signal a “lost-link” protocol (return to base and land) cannot be executed either (UAV is “autistic”)

    ADS-B operates in an “untrusted” environment: whatever cryptographic HW, SW and keys are employed will (sooner or later) be accessible to malicious parties

    The crucial element here is (in my opinion) that no distress call was receiced …but as someone has already pointed out we need to know what the CVR (cockpit voice recorder) reveals …

  127. @Marvin Sandnes

    Israel, the US and Saudi Arabia work together in their plot against Iran. Perhaps the Israelis were afraid their “documenting of the event” could be discovered (like on 9/11), therefore they outsourced that to the Saudis.

  128. Thomasina says:
    @Lot

    A friend called me a few years ago and said, “Have you seen the moon tonight? It’s spectacular!” I looked out my windows, but couldn’t see it. I had to go downstairs to the front of the building to witness it. This was the moon, a bright, huge ball in the sky. I had to be in a favorable position to see it.

    Whoever filmed the shooting down of Flight 752 had to be in an optimal position to get the video clip. Gee, it’s almost as if they were anticipating it, just like on 9-11. Who is up at 6:00 a.m. on a Sunday morning with their camera aimed at a dark sky and in the exact position to capture the hit?

    Who was there on 9-11, anticipating the chaos? If it walks like a duck…

    • Agree: Trinity, ChuckOrloski
    • Replies: @A123
  129. Rurik says:
    @Just passing through

    Many average people will just shut off once you mention Israel or Zionists.

    Or worse, wonder if you’re some kind of terrorist-lover.

    Having 100% control of the media has done a lot of damage, but so too has the venal corruption of our governments and universities.

    When Woodrow Wilson handed the world’s Jewish supremacists the keys to the US Treasury, with the ability to ‘print’ unlimited lucre, to bribe the world to their Satanic agenda, he sure did a lot of damage. Two world wars later, ((9/11)), and a civilization on the brink of dissolution.

    Such a deal !

  130. anonymous[393] • Disclaimer says:
    @Saggy

    http://www.dean-boys.com/extras/iff/iffqa.html

    FAA regulations require that all aircraft, military or civilian, flying at an altitude of 10,000 feet or higher in U.S. controlled airspace, must be equipped with an operating IFF transponder system capable of automatic altitude reporting (this is the reason that two of the modes are used by both military and civilian aircraft).

    So, did the Ukrainian plane have an IFF transponder or not?

    It did not.

    Ref?

    Here is a link to the FAA site which contains the minimum equipment an aircraft must have in order to fly. Minimum Equipment Lists for ALL aircraft are there. Try to find IFF on the any of the lists. Hint: it is not there.

    • Agree: Alfred
    • Replies: @Alfred
  131. @Anonymous

    Except in this case there were two missiles. The explosion from the first and the clear fireball of it, made the videographer turn on the video and catch the second missile hitting the airliner.

  132. A123 says:
    @AnonStarter

    2. These threats placed Iran’s air defense systems on the highest alert level
    7. The operator is forced to make an independent decision in a 10 second window of time and fires upon the plane.

    How long were the operators on alert? Tension and sleep deprivation are a bad mix. This looks like the crew on the ground had seconds to make a decision, and in the rush got it wrong.

    I’m not sure how anyone on the outside could tell if the operator made the launch by mistake or from ill intent. No doubt the crew will be given the Richard Jewell treatment in an attempt to deflect blame from the religious hierarchy.

    PEACE 😇

  133. Robjil says:
    @Just passing through

    That is very interesting. That is just what I thought.

    Zion is pushing the destruction of the most gullible people and the most loyal followers of their BS.

    Zion will totally disappear when it totally destroys Euro white culture.

    Little Ms. Barbara Spectre (BS) will not be comfortable in the future world she and her ilk are creating.

  134. Ron Unz says:
    @Just passing through

    I’ve tried menioning the Israeli connection to people in real-life and on the comments sections of mainstream news outlets in a respectful and non-hateful manners. Usually I get weird looks or in the comments section people call you and ‘anti-Semite’. Mentioning Israel seems to be like mentioning shape-shifting lizards, they are both seen as tropes used by misinformed and nutty people. Many average people will just shut off once you mention Israel or Zionists.

    The Jewish PR machine has sure did a good job conditioning the people is all I can say.

    Yes, it’s a very difficult problem breaking through many decades of powerful media conditioning.

    The approach I try to follow is somewhat analogous to how a virus will use its protein coat to pierce a cellular membrane, then inject its DNA into the interior.

    For example, my American Pravda articles almost invariably begin in a highly innocuous manner, making claims and arguments that are extremely mainstream and respectable, ones that would hardly raise concerns in even the most nervous reader. This attaches to the existing membrane.

    I often then try to draw upon ultra-respectable sources to raise a couple of very surprising points, but ones that hardly challenge the reader’s world-view or set off ideological alarms. This tends to soften the existing membrane.

    Gradually the text begins to draw upon these same highly reputable sources to begin raising far more controversial issues, trying to inject these notions deep into the reader’s mental framework of reality, hoping that they “take” and multiply, or at least weaken the ideological defense system sufficiently that a later round might have that effect.

    Anyway, that’s the strategy I’ve tried to follow in my American Pravda series. Whether it’s successful, I can’t really say:

    https://www.unz.com/page/american-pravda-series/

  135. A123 says:
    @Thomasina

    Who is up at 6:00 a.m. on a Sunday morning with their camera aimed at a dark sky and in the exact position to capture the hit?

    Given the number of cameras in today’s society, the fact that the event was captured is unsurprising.

    For example, did this Russian motorist have advance knowledge of the meteor track to obtain this footage?
    .

    .

    PEACE 😇

  136. anonymous[393] • Disclaimer says:
    @AnonStarter

    1. the SA-15 system has an IFF interrogator built into its radar system,

    Correct

    2. Boeing 737 aircraft are equipped with two IFF transponders, which are set and activated prior to take off, and

    Incorrect The Boeing 737 aircrfat has two ATC Transponders only one of which is activated prior to takeoff. The second ATC transponder is only activated if the first one fails. An ATC Transponder is NOT an IFF transponder.

    3. it is possible for a plane to take off without an IFF transponder operating.

    Incorrect. A functioning ATC transponder is part the Boeing 737 Minimum Equipment List which is available here. The only way the Ukraine Air crew could have gotten around this requirement was to get prior permission from the Iranian Civil Aviation Authority and EVERY other country’s Cicil Aviation Authority in its flight path which I can guarantee you would not be forthcoming.

    5. Even if there was no IFF signal, a SA-15/TOR M-1 operator could still determine the location, bearing, speed and size of the potential target.

    Incorrect The operator could determine range, range rate. and bearing if the transponder was not function.

    6. The SA-15 also has an automatic all weather day/night NV/IR Electro Optical Targeting System (EOTS) used for target engagement and fire control by which the plane would have been easily identified.

    The plane was at least 1.5 miles away (8000 ft altitude). You go get yourself a pair of Night Vision/Infra Red scopes and see how well you do identifying different aircraft from that distance.

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  137. @Rurik

    Agree, and as Nathan Rothschild infamously said ; I care not what puppet is placed on the throne of England , the man who controls the money supply controls the British empire and I am that man; and the same holds true here in the ZUS, the Rothschilds control America.

  138. PeterMX says:

    “There have been riots in Iran subsequent to the shooting down of the plane, blaming the government for its ineptitude. Some of the people in the street are clearly calling for the goal long sought by the United States and Israel, i.e. “regime change.”” Yes, that has been reported in the US mainstream media. Asuuming that is true (which it could easily be a lie considering the source, but lets assume it can be verified), that makes me think there are people on the streets organizing riots not just hostile to the Iranian government, but loyal to the US, Israeli or some other foreign government hostile to Iran. I’m not even Iranian but I agree with Canada’s Trudeau and I believe the US shares a lot of the blame for this tragedy (putting Iran on high alert for Soleimani’s murder), so I wonder if the US or someone else have people doing to Iran what Senator John McCain and Victoria Nuland did in Ukraine in the protests that enabled the coup against the Ukrainian government a few yewrs ago.

    • Replies: @Franklin Ryckaert
  139. @bobhammer

    So you were an Air Force Close Air Support Specialist and a FAC. Does that mean you had the training to understand what was possible and what wasn’t regarding the current set of events?

    Phillip Giraldi was merely stating a very likely possibility given the electronics capabilities of the United States and Israel.

    What you are saying is that given these capabilities the US would not endeavor to perform such strikes.

    What planet have you been living on recently?

    And anyone who can actually support the current occupant of the US presidency with this type of pro-USA\military drivel should immediately get their head examined…

  140. An international committee with experts should question the Iranian who shot the plane with a lie detector in order to prove that the man really saw a menace and make him describe exactly what he saw and what he didn’t see!

    This whole thing smell like hell, as what the secret services in U.S., U.K. and Israel do with the help of secret new technologies.

  141. Lazz says:
    @Colin Wright

    Two man enter! One man leave!

  142. @Ron Unz

    One good article to show people in relation to the Israel Lobby’s influence on America’s decision to go to war in Iraq is an article in Israeli newspaper Haaretz titled White Man’s Burden which carries the following subheading;

    The war in Iraq was conceived by 25 neoconservative intellectuals, most of them Jewish, who are pushing President Bush to change the course of history. Two of them, journalists William Kristol and Charles Krauthammer, say it’s possible. But another journalist, Thomas Friedman (not part of the group), is skeptical.

    This comes from a reputable newspaper from Israel so cannot be dismissed as the ravings of some neo-Nazis. I have found this to have the most success in getting people online to think about the Iraq War more, it is impossible for detractors to label a link to an Israeli newspaper article as “anti-Semitic” without looking absurd.

    I would find the UN’s review kind of hard to recommend to people in real life simple because of the provocative nature of the stories it runs. The American Pravda series is of course very informative but the articles require quite a bit of time to read through and check the hyperlinks within the article itself. Without sounding like someone with a superiority complex, most people cannot read this much information and grasp it. Many will not touch articles relating to Holocaust Denial or race.

    But anyway, you sir are doing great work with the maintenance and story selection on this website and I wish you the best of luck in the future. It certainly has armed me with lots of information that I can use to counter mainstream narratives in a whole host of issues. Although my efforts in real life have not been very successful, I do seem to be getting some success in my cyber-activism on mainstream news websites, where I am able to provide a clear and cogent narrative with links to reputable websites and not come across as a nutjob who raves about da jooz.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @artichoke
    , @barr
  143. @Anon

    Sharpen your reading skills. Civilian aircraft have different frequency transponders than military aircraft. Flight plans are filed, and the transponder signals correspond to filed flight plans. When attacking, military craft turn off their transponders. No transponder signal = no corresponding flight plan = unfriendly aircraft.
    There is no need to “spoof” anything, once the transponder stops signalling. That aside, I found it curious that this particular airplane was on its first flight after major maintenance. Who knows what was done in servicing. If the computer in the car you drive can be hijacked to cause sudden acceleration or brake failurs, an airplane’s certainly can.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  144. @lavoisier

    Unfortunately, Trudeau is just a different sort of Zionist stooge. His mentor, Irwin Cotler, is popular enough in Israel to be President.

  145. @Rurik

    In regards to the terrorist lover, I feel that the so-called Counter Jihad movement has been very successful in inculcating people with this mentality, either you support Israel or you must be with those crazy Moslem terrorist. That people like Tommy Robinson receive funding Zionists like Ezra Levant and Robert J. Shillman is testament to what the real agenda is for demonising Muslims – raising sympathy for Israel.

    Americans and British have this weird support with Israel I find, when I debate people online regarding the aggression against Iran, the debate ultimately devolved down to the other person saying something along the lines of “but what about Israel” (because they cannot explain what Iran has done wrong). It is rather tragic to see people care so much about a country that has only backstabbed theirs at every crucial juncture.

    The funniest thing is when they assume you are a “liberal” for opposing Israel.

  146. @A123

    In the winter, in central Ural where this meteorite fell, the Sun get’s up after 8 am. So all the workers were up and jammed in trafic when this meteorite fell down.

  147. DeepState America does Propaganda better than anyone. They have run the mockingbird media for 50+years.
    Now all the average American sees is that Iran is ‘bad’ cause it shoots down airliners. Yet, America was completely naked before Iranian missisles.
    Military paradigm shift: tanks and aircraft carriers are largely obsolete for warfare. Hypersonic missiles take them out every time.
    America cannot dominate the Middle East and, in fact, will leave over the next 5 years as they can’t even defend their bases. They have troops refusing to go back to base in Iraq.

    The American Empire is over. Time to clean up the mess at home before a Revolution 2.0 destroys America just like it did Russia in 1917.

  148. @lavoisier

    The new Deputy Minister to Spain has already gone on the radio to denounce Israel as an “illegal
    country”…

    There is hope…

  149. @Wizard of Oz

    You need to back up the bus.
    This started when a “rocket attack” killed a US contractor, and was almost immediately blamed on the Hezbollah Kataib militia, which denied involvement. The US military acknowledged 20 years ago, that the Israelis have the ability to stage attacks, and blame them on “Arabs”.
    The US then attacked Hezbollah Kataib, killing 24 people. That was followed by the rock throwing at the US Embassy – it had to be Iranians, as Iraqis would never be upset that their countrymen had been killed by foreign occupiers.
    Soleimani flew into Baghdad and was met by Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis, the commander of Hezbollah Kataib. Solemeini and al-Muhandis were then assassinated.
    Who benefits? Well certainly Israel is the chief beneficiary. Hezbollah in Lebanon was organized and trained by Solemeini. Even Robert Fisk, who has little complementary to say about Hezbollah acknowledges that prior to Hezbollah, an Israeli attack (which were frequent) meant people in South Lebanon getting in cars and driving to Beirut. After Hezbollah, an Israeli attack meant people in Beirut getting in their cars to drive to South Lebanon to fight. Quite simply, Hezbollah, which responds to attacks, not initiates them, has been kicking Israel’s arse. That stands in the way of Eretz Israel, as does Hezbollah Kataib in Iraq. As long as Soleimani was alive, Eretz Israel was on ice. Iran is Israel’s enemy, because it resists Eretz Israel.
    As for the control of the CIA, I think it is fair to say, that the “5 eyes” and Israel operate as one, with Mossad/Shin Bet doing some freelancing on the side. All of them are out of the control of their respective governments, and answer only to themselves. Any politician that gets in the way will be Kennedy-ed or Rabin-ed.

    • Replies: @JimDandy
  150. @bobhammer

    one of the most despicable humans on the planet,
    —————————————————————————–
    Former Secretary of State, Madeliene Albright insisted that sanctions against Iraq during the 90’s were legitimate DESPITE 500, 000 deaths. Sanctions involve the inability to purchase items at the international ‘store’. Thus, Iraq could not buy basic anti-biotics to treat common infectious diseases. The elderly and young died of treatable illnesses. Collective punishment is a war crime. Albright is a war criminal as is Bill ‘Epstein didn’t kill himself’s best friend’ Clinton.
    General Soleimani led the tip of the spear, the Quds Force. They were a combat force that bolstered Hezbollah in 2006 when Israeli invaded Lebanon to kill and maim.

    You sir, are a liar and a Fool.
    Learn some history NOT propaganda. Other than Communist regimes like Soviet Russia and Communist China the U.S. is 3rd in body count. Not much of a statistic to brag about.

    • Replies: @Desert Fox
  151. Thomasina says:
    @A123

    Looks like the motorist was sitting at a red light and his dash cam picked up the meteor, and what it picked up was quite a distance from his position.

    It all depends on the angle, doesn’t it? If these “rich kids” were already near the airport, wouldn’t the angle of their camera have been different? IOW, their camera would have had to have been pointed in a more “upward” (steeper angle) position and into a dark sky AND at precisely the correct position on a 360 degree grid?

    Smells like 9/11 to me.

    • Replies: @A123
    , @Alfred
  152. JimDandy says:
    @Curmudgeon

    Who would benefit from causing this air disaster, and how? Making Iran look inept doesn’t seem to be a very big benefit.

    Was there anyone on board that anyone wanted dead?

    • Agree: Wizard of Oz
    • Replies: @Based Inquisitor
  153. “But There May be More to the Story”

    I’ll take door # anything for clicks and likes.

  154. @anonymous

    Besides emitting identification signal all civilian aircraft has these blinking lights that should have been clearly visible 1,5 miles away at 8000 Ft altitude. So what is wrong here?

    • Replies: @awry
  155. A123 says:
    @Thomasina

    It all depends on the angle, doesn’t it? If these “rich kids” were already near the airport,

    Millennials baffle me. Their first reaction in any possible crisis is pointing a cell phone camera at it. Their second reaction is trying to get a selfie with the impending danger.

    Kids pointing their cell phones at the missile before it hits the plane is both counter survival & unsurprising.

    PEACE

    • Replies: @Thomasina
  156. Sean says:

    Hezbollah in Lebanon was organized and trained by Solemeini.

    Was. An act of vengeance is unlikely, and if I remember rightly one US journalist said in the 2006 Lebanon War Israel was leaving Hezbollah rocket teams alone so there would be an excuse to knock seven bells out of Lebanon. They wanted to destroy infrastructure in order that Lebanon would be made to pay the very heaviest price for tolerating Jerusalem Force’s protege

    Soleimani flew into Baghdad and was met by Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis, the commander of Hezbollah Kataib. Solemeini and al-Muhandis were then assassinated.

    The half Iranian Muhandis was sentenced to death to death by Kuwait for bomb attacks on the French and American embassies during the 80, and the US thought he was responsible for the recent attack on the United States embassy in Baghdad.

    All of them are out of the control of their respective governments, and answer only to themselves. Any politician that gets in the way will be Kennedy-ed or Rabin-ed.

    You are living in a fantasy world. When it comes down to it, the army and no one else can seize power.

  157. Dannyboy says:
    @Lot

    Unfortunately Old Boy, the “misdeeds of Jews” of this exact nature are voluminous.

    Maybe it was, maybe it wasn’t, but I’m afraid your “shitty little nation” is usually first on every thinking human beings list.

    • Agree: Trinity
    • Disagree: artichoke
  158. @steinbergfeldwitzcohen

    The UN report said the US war on Sadam Hussein killed an estimated 1.7 million civilians of which an estimated 500 thousand to 6oo thousand were children.

  159. Ron Unz says:
    @Just passing through

    The American Pravda series is of course very informative but the articles require quite a bit of time to read through and check the hyperlinks within the article itself. Without sounding like someone with a superiority complex, most people cannot read this much information and grasp it.

    Sure, that’s a reasonable verdict. To some extent, I’m targeting a particular market-segment.

    • Replies: @Kapyong
    , @Brewer
  160. DaveE says:
    @anon

    Nice try. No, I take that back….. really LAME try.

    I worked for Boeing for a short time and I can tell you that an IFF transponder is as required as landing gear.

    I don’t have time to prove it….. but if you want to waste yours, be my guest. The rest of us have better things to do.

    • Agree: artichoke
    • Replies: @AnonStarter
    , @anon
  161. Thomasina says:
    @A123

    “Millennials baffle me. Their first reaction in any possible crisis is pointing a cell phone camera at it. Their second reaction is trying to get a selfie with the impending danger. Kids pointing their cell phones at the missile before it hits the plane is both counter survival and unsurprising.”

    Not buying that either. Their reactions would not have been fast enough, UNLESS they were actually anticipating it.

    If you’ve played sports, you’d know what I mean.

    This just smacks of someone laying in wait, someone with advance warning: camera in hand, camera aimed in the right direction, at the right angle, at 6:00 a.m. on a Sunday morning, in the dark.

    Click.

    Whoever took this shot knew it was coming.

    • Replies: @onebornfree
  162. Phil Giraldi talks about “targeted Ukraine Airlines” and Ron Unz targets a “particular market-segment.” All good!

    Nonetheless, in article linked below, the ground-based, New York Times, launched a missive & targeted a particular college that’s judged as possessed by anti-Israelism. 😲

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/16/opinion/antisemitism-college.html

    Yes, yes, (Zigh) “There is more to the story.”

  163. @PeterMX

    From the Jerusalem Post, January 13, 2020 :

    “…Iranian protesters refuse to walk on US, Israeli flags, watch :

    …As anti-government protests swept Iran in the aftermath of the downing of a Ukrainian plane, students from Tehran avoided walking on massive American and Israel flags placed on the road in front of them.

    Videos circulated on social media showed Iranian students parting as they approached the large flags, taking pains to avoid stepping on them. A few people who did walk over the flags were booed by protesters in the area with chants of “Shame on you.”
    Some reports said that the protesters near the flags chanted “Our enemy is in Iran, not America…”

    To this Jewish “UN watcher” Hillel Neuer responds :

    Hillel Neuer

    @HillelNeuer

    Dear @EU_eeas @JosepBorrellF:

    These courageous Iranian students who refuse to trample the U.S. & Israeli flags represent the hope for a better Middle East. Engage with and promote them instead of their oppressors, and maybe Iran-backed wars & terror across the region will end. https://twitter.com/UNWatch/status/1216350041193041921 …”

    So the purpose of this whole operation seems to be :

    1) Give the Iran regime a bad name.
    2) Create a popular movement for regime change.
    3) Direct that movement in a pro-Israel and pro-American direction.

    Cui bono?

    • Replies: @artichoke
    , @ivan
    , @renfro
    , @PeterMX
  164. @AnonStarter

    This article makes no sense. We’ve just read facts that none of us have ever heard so it’s pretty clear we can wipe the floor with this nonsense. The press gives us “facts” all the time but by all means link to other noise, maybe the fans can post their thoughts and feelings about the whole Boeing event.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  165. niceland says:

    Question: Does this look like a launch from TorM1 system? From what I gather, Tor is a vertical launcher. “The missile is ejected vertically from the launch vehicle and then rapidly pivots..”

    See for yourself:

    See simple explanation about TorM1 here:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2020/01/10/iran-plane-crash-tor-missile-system-suspected-bringing-ukraine/

    Judging by the video these two missiles were not launched vertically and probably came from something else. Perhaps the RAAD system deployed in 2012
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raad_(air_defense_system)
    See also:
    https://iranmilitarynews.wordpress.com/2013/01/16/is-the-irgc-reverse-engineering-russian-tor-m1-anti-air-missile-systems/

    • Replies: @artichoke
  166. Skeptikal says:
    @JimDandy

    I think the point would be to rob Iran of its rightful claim to have put itself on top in the ping-pong game with the USA. The plane crash dramatically changed the subject and eclipsed the murder of Solameini as the main topic and focus.

    Now everyone is talking about Iran’s debacle instead of Iran’s moral victory, ethical savvy, technological feat, and strategic chess move (with the missile hits on the US base).

    • Replies: @JimDandy
  167. artichoke says:
    @Franklin Ryckaert

    So a rather extended tissue of supposes and maybes is used to say, those Iran students should have walked on the US flag after all!

    It’s funny what counts as a victory around here. Remembering the Iran hostage crisis, I want the mullah government removed and Death to America to stop. Crazy, right?

    • Replies: @barr
  168. artichoke says:
    @niceland

    In the video the missiles are going right to left and explode (supposedly from impact or proximity) on the left of the screen. Then the burning plane comes across the screen, right to left.

    Did the plane, after both impacts, continue left to right, then bank nicely and turn around and end up moving the other way?

  169. artichoke says:
    @Just passing through

    Sure. And most who disagree were just too dumb or careless to understand it properly. Don’t get a blister patting yourself on the back.

  170. Anonymous[230] • Disclaimer says:
    @Curmudgeon

    @Anon
    Sharpen your reading skills. Civilian aircraft have different frequency transponders than military aircraft.

    Incorrect. Civilian ATC transponders and military IFF transponders operate at the exact same frequencies – 1030MHz for receive and 1090MHz for transmit.

    Flight plans are filed, and the transponder signals correspond to filed flight plans. When attacking, military craft turn off their transponders. No transponder signal = no corresponding flight plan = unfriendly aircraft.

    incorrect. During combat military aircraft IFF transponder operators turn all the IFF transponder civilian modes off while leaving the military modes on. They don’t want to get shot down after all. Note that aircraft can still be tracked with RADAR even if the transponder is turned off completely unless it has a lot of stealth technology.

    • Replies: @artichoke
    , @Curmudgeon
  171. @Super Dark Secrets

    Congratulations.

    Along with bobhammer, you’ve just joined the ranks of UR’s one-and-done sockpuppet brigade.

  172. JimDandy says:
    @Skeptikal

    That makes sense, although many of Trump’s opponents are trying to place ultimate blame for this on him.

    But it makes sense. Thanks.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  173. ivan says:
    @Brewer

    Agreed. The captain of Vincennes defied orders and went looking for trouble. He should have been charged with manslaughter at least. I didn’t know the inside story till years later when it was covered in either a Newsweek or Times article. It turned out to be convenient for St Reagan to blame the Libyans for the revenge downing of the Pan Am airliner. Whatever is the convenient story for the Zionists that becomes the story that is propagated.

    • Replies: @Herald
  174. barr says:
    @Just passing through

    That article appeared at a time when there was massive public support fo war , hubris based confidence in executing the war, getting what Americans have been told ,the war will unveil in Iraq ie its past ( torture killings and WMD ) and its future ( Iraq will be democracy Iran will be toppled by Shia from the Shia success in Iraq , Saudi will stop its version of religious fanaticism , Jordan will embrace Palestinian and WB GAZA will move to Jordan without the land, Egypt will learn not to fence sit again, and Syria will fold, woman will taste liberation ). The sheer joy and grandiosity and reinforcement in American goodness but in reality in American military strength and decisiveness raised the hubris more in the circle of the neocons That’s why they could talk and write They wanted to claim their laurels acknowledgment and future rewards and not be denied the singularity and primacy of their roles.

    Those expectations got shattered repeatedly and America started sensing something went wrong and it was not their making . They felt they had been hoodwinked . This forced moral intellectual somersault and made the neocons sing from ” we are all neo cons now” to “use of the term -neocons cabal is anti Semite”

    But on another level a similar article blaming Saddam or Syria or Iran of similar misadventures by one of the local papers will get a different treatment It would have been highlighted, discussed many times in media and Congress/ Senate would be asked to investigate and take the paper’s claims to UN.

    That is another failure again by choice.

  175. ivan says:
    @Franklin Ryckaert

    Whether those Iranians chose to walk on the Israeli or American flags, they will discover as the Lebanese Christians and the Kurds have discovered that they are nothing but cannon fodder for the Zionists. Not the half of the despicable nature of the Zionists and their American confreres is the ease with which they betray those whom they had hitherto supported, when it is convenient

    • Agree: Colin Wright
    • Replies: @L.K
  176. barr says:
    @artichoke

    Conclusion of some paid trolls to claim that the refusal to trample on the flag is sign of Iranian embrace of Israel is like saying antiwar movement is a sign of love for Iranian and Sudanese political system .

  177. @DaveE

    It’s nice to hear from someone with actual field experience.

    I realize you may not have the time to address them fully, but are you able to speak to any of anon’s statements here?

  178. Lot says:
    @Just passing through

    “ Mentioning Israel seems to be like mentioning shape-shifting lizards, they are both seen as tropes used by misinformed and nutty people.”

    That’s because you see this in real life.

    Paranoid schizophrenics pretty much all rant and rave about the Jews. Not only them, but the CIA, Israel/Mossad/Jews, Freemasons, and British Royal Family are the Big 4.

    • Replies: @barr
  179. onebornfree says: • Website
    @Thomasina

    Thomasina says: “This just smacks of someone laying in wait, someone with advance warning: camera in hand, camera aimed in the right direction, at the right angle, at 6:00 a.m. on a Sunday morning, in the dark.”

    How do we know that the alleged videos are even genuine? – they could be 100% fake, prefabricated via computer [C.G.I.] . Even if genuine footage, whose to say it was even taken that night ? – it could have been taken months , or years before. Really, there’s no good reason I can see to believe in completely unverifiable, alleged footage of an alleged event that already has other examples of photographic fakery embedded in it – see the link in my previous post [48] for an article exposing the numerous holes in the official story.

    Regards, onebornfree

    • Replies: @Thomasina
  180. Kapyong says:
    @Ron Unz

    “I’m targeting a particular market-segment.”

    A market-segment that particularly appreciates your targeting.
    Keep up the good work 🙂

  181. barr says:
    @Lot

    https://www.sott.net/article/427490-Ex-Israeli-general-openly-admits-Israel-arms-and-aids-crazed-Islamist-head-choppers-in-Syria

    IDF chief admits Israel supplied Syrian terrorists with weaponsIsrael’s Army Chief admits to providing weapons and support to ‘Syrian rebels’ in Golan HeightsHow noble: Retiring Israeli chief of staff tells NYT: “We struck thousands of targets without claiming responsibility or asking for credit”IDF Chief of Staff Eisenkot claims Israeli operations in Syria curbed Iran, HezbollahForeign Policy magazine reported in September that Israel supplied weapons and gave money to at least 12 rebel groups holed up in southern Syria. The arrangement reportedly included Israeli officials also giving $75-per-person monthly allowances to rebel fighters, in addition to the funds their leaders received to procure weapons on the black market

    Pick any year any decade and you will see why Israel is hated . It is not about Israel being brilliant or intelligent nor for being chosen by God. Hate is normal .

  182. Z-man says:
    @Iris

    Thanks for your reply and the video but to be clear I wasn’t apologizing, I was clarifying. As I’ve said many times Christian Zionism, a zealot heritical sect, is the best definition of an OXYMORON.

  183. Ron Unz says:
    @Rurik

    So let me be very clear here. What they are (justifiably) angry about, what they are rioting about, is the fact that the regime *lied* to them, about the cause of the plane crash.

    Well, I’m no expert on all the issues involved in the unfortunate accident, but I still think you’re being much too hard on the Iranian government. Here’s a pretty sensible article by the Saker that we probably should have republished a couple of days ago:

    https://www.unz.com/tsaker/of-aircraft-horses-and-zebras/

    • Replies: @Brewer
    , @L.K
    , @Wizard of Oz
    , @Rurik
  184. geokat62 says:
    @Ron Unz

    Whether it’s successful, I can’t really say…

    As the ADL and other JSOs no doubt realize, your America Pravda series is invaluable to the dissident community. A man with your educational background, knowledge, and experience writing in-depth articles that are heavily sourced with books written by people who have a reputation for being truth tellers, lends tremendous credibility to those who have the temerity to challenge “the establishment’s” most cherished sacred cows, e.g., the holocaust, 9/11, JFK, etc. While they may have had a relatively easy time dismissing the majority of these dissenters as antisemitic crackpots, they’ll have a much more difficult time doing the same to you.

    … and for this we owe you a debt of gratitude.

  185. Brewer says:
    @Ron Unz

    Keep it up and a watchful eye. We need you.

  186. L.K says:
    @ivan

    These protesters have no real mass support inside Iran and come from the same demographics that staged the attempted color revolution known as the “Green Movement” back in 2009/10. The following is from an Iranian female observer who lives in Iran:

    Fereshteh Sadeghi فرشته صادقی

    With recent protests about plane crash subsiding I have to write a few lines, some may not like my conclusion, but that’s what I see as an observer since more than 10 yrs ago:
    number of people who attended these protests were hundreds not even 10s of thousands.

    The social class of this week’s protestors were mostly upper middle class, university students. I have told a friend or 2 that the are from the same classes who attended 2009 post-election protests in large number. I call them political protesters. They usually live in Tehran.

    These 👆protesters are totally different from those who participated in winter 2018 and November 2019 demos which were nationwide (small cities) or on the suburbs of big cities while Tehranis stayed away from them. I call them economic protesters.

    Another point is: while you may see many of those economic protesters going to flood or quake stricken regions in volunteer groups along with Basiji or seminary students, you never track(see) political protesters, celebrities, tv personalities helping affected locals.

    It could explain why such protests are never taken serious by ordinary people (though security forces take them very serious(ly)!

    Dr. Roberts has a good take on this issue:

    The Iranian Protests Are a Washington Orchestration

    Paul Craig Roberts

    It is difficult to know who is the most stupid, the protesting Iranian students or the Iranian government.

    The Iranian government, like the governments of Russia and China, permits NGOs financed by their Washington and British enemies, to operate in Iran. Insouciant, indeed stupid, Iranian students receive money, encouragement, organization, and protest power from the foreign-financed NGOs.

    To show how stupid the students are, according to reports they are chanting that the enemy is not America, the country threatening to bomb them, but the Iranian government. After Iraq, Libya, and Syria, one wonders why the Iranian students want their country in a similar state of chaos and destruction. One wonders why the government funds a university that produces such stupid students.

    I have never seen an explanation of why countries on Washington’s regime change list permit Washington to finance fifth columns within their country. Are Iran, Russia, and China trying to demonstrate how democratic they are by accepting treason?…

    • Replies: @ivan
  187. Brewer says:
    @Ron Unz

    Hat tip. Sensational documentary worthy of the front page:

  188. geokat62 says:

    How do you say “goodbye dual loyalty” in Russian?

    Putin: Constitutional Changes Will Ban
    Russians With Dual Citizenship & Foreign Residence From Power
    :

    Excerpts from Russian President Vladimir Putin’s historic speech:

    Firstly, Russia can be and can remain Russia only as a sovereign state. Our nation’s sovereignty must be unconditional.

    We have done a great deal to achieve this. We restored our state’s unity. We have overcome the situation when certain powers in the government were essentially usurped by oligarch clans.

    Russia has returned to international politics as a country whose opinions cannot be ignored…

    I suggest formalizing at the constitutional level the obligatory requirements for those who hold positions of critical significance for national security and sovereignty.

    More precisely, the heads of the constituent entities, members of the Federation Council, State Duma deputies, the prime minister and his/ her deputies, federal ministers, heads of federal agencies and judges should have no foreign citizenship or residence permit or any other document that allows them to live permanently in a foreign state.

    The goal and mission of state service is to serve the people, and those who enter this path must know that by doing this they inseparably connect their lives with Russia and the Russian people without any assumptions and allowances.

    Requirements must be even stricter for presidential candidates. I suggest formalizing a requirement under which presidential candidates must have had permanent residence in Russia for at least 25 years and no foreign citizenship or residence permit and not only during the election campaign but at any time before it too. I know that people are discussing the constitutional provision under which one person cannot hold the post of the President of the Russian Federation for more than two consecutive terms. I do not regard this as a matter of principle, but I nevertheless support and share this view.

  189. renfro says:
    @Franklin Ryckaert

    Fake news.

    The US StateDep has been funding the Iran disinfo project….they had contrscts with FFD and VOA as well as MEK journalist like Masih Alinejad at VOA.

    • Replies: @Franklin Ryckaert
  190. Alfred says:
    @Thomasina

    A123 is an obvious troll working for Israel. Don’t waste your time on him is my advice.

    • Thanks: L.K
    • Troll: A123
  191. L.K says:
    @Ron Unz

    Well, I’m no expert on all the issues involved in the unfortunate accident

    And you can be 100% sure that neither is “rurik”.
    What knowledge does this individual possess of something as specific as Air Defense Systems? None. I would say that even professional soldiers, officers, who are not directly involved with this have limited knowledge. The following, for example, was written by a retired German army officer. Is he correct? I dunno. Another thing is that the all information we have, thus far, is way too fragmentary, which is to be expected in a situation like this. It’s perhaps okay to speculate a bit, but not to make vacuous comments full of certainty and self-righteousness.
    Was The Shootdown Of The Ukrainian Airplane Near Tehran Intended, A Screw-Up Or A ‘Mistake’?
    https://www.moonofalabama.org/2020/01/was-the-shootdown-of-the-ukrainian-airplane-near-tehran-really-a-mistake.html#more

    Global Research has picked up an Italian article based on a Russian military website article:
    https://www.corrierepl.it/2020/01/12/sito-russo-usa-responsabili-dellerrore-umano-che-ha-causato-lincidente-dellaereo-ucraino/

    A Russian military site Avia.pro has addressed the issue of “human error” relating to the crash of Ukraine’s Boeing 737 [departing from Tehran] on January 8, minutes after takeoff, which resulted in the death of 179 passengers and members of the crew.

    Relying on military experts, the report intimates that the incident bears a canny (point by point) resemblance to the destruction of a Russian IL-20 in Latakia, Syria in September 2018.

    Israeli fighters, followed by Syrian missiles, used the Russian plane as a shield, even if it meant its destruction and the death of 15 passengers.

    The Russian military website refers to an independent investigation that concluded the US is “at least partial US responsibility” in the January 8 tragedy:

    “According to experts, the US military had deliberately changed the information on the Ukrainian Boeing 737 flight, making it a real target for the Iranian air defense systems.”

    According to data from Pentagon-related sources, several U.S. military planes were observed in the sky in the vicinity of Iran’s airspace, just at the time of the Boeing’s flight departure.

    Anomalies were observed on Iran’s radar system, probably due to a cyber attack.

    The civilian plane was therefore confused with a fighter plane heading directly for a military target.

    “Since the pilot made a U-turn, it is very likely that the US cyber attack had also focused on the navigation system of the Ukrainian Boeing. This is not the first time that Americans have done this type of action, ” said Avia.pro.

    In addition, a member of the Security and Defense Committee of the Russian Duma accused the provocative US measures against Iran of having been the cause of the Ukrainian plane crash.

  192. anon[230] • Disclaimer says:
    @DaveE

    DaveE says:
    @anon

    Nice try. No, I take that back….. really LAME try.

    I worked for Boeing for a short time and I can tell you that an IFF transponder is as required as landing gear.

    I don’t have time to prove it….. but if you want to waste yours, be my guest. The rest of us have better things to do.

    Another clueless poser. It takes less than minute if you know what you are doing. ALL the equipment required to be on an aircraft is in the Minimum Equipment List which is available from the FAA. The Minimum Equipment List for the 737 is below:

    http://fsims.faa.gov/PICDetail.aspx?docId=M%20B-737%20R60

    You will NOT find IFF in this list which means it is not required. You WILL find ATC Transponder which is NOT an IFF.

  193. @geokat62

    The US should adopt the same policy, but even stronger. Not only should US-Israeli dual citizens not be allowed to occupy any official function, their US citizenship should be revoked and they should be expelled to Israel. They are agents of a foreign and (crypto) hostile nation.

  194. L.K says:

    Iran suggests US cyberattack led to weapons system failure that killed 176 people
    By ICH & Agencies

    January 16, 2020 “Information Clearing House” – Iran is investigating how a cyberattack by the US may have been the reason why the Iranian weapon system operator confused the passenger aircraft for a cruise missile.

    The Iranians believe that the Americans disabled their radar system after Iran fired missiles at US troops housed in Iraqi bases in Anbar and Erbil.

    Iran Guardian Council chairman Ahmad Jannati stated Wednesday that “enemy sabotage” cannot be ruled out, while Brigadier General Ali Abdollahi directly suggested that US military forces hacked Iran’s radar systems to make it appear that the airliner, containing 176 people, was an incoming missile. Abdollahi claimed that the operator of the missile fired at the plane had difficulty in receiving the message of the command center when the alert about cruise missiles was removed and mistook the plane for an incoming American missile.

    Abdollahi also said the possibility of involvement of enemy infiltrators in the air defense system was being probed by the Iranian intelligence bodies and could not be ruled out yet.

    • Replies: @ivan
  195. @renfro

    Either the news is fake, or those “students” are paid activists to stage a “color revolution”. There is no love of Iranians for the US or Israel. The Iranians see what “the Great Satan” and “the Little Satan” are doing in the Middle East. Some Iranians may hate their own government, they surely don’t love the US or Israel.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  196. @geokat62

    Putin : “…We have overcome the situation when certain powers in the government were essentially usurped by oligarch clans…”

    “Oligarch clans”, read : Jewish gangsters. The move to ban persons with dual citizenship or residence from government is meant to exclude Jews with dual Russian-Israeli citizenship. And then to think of it that there are people who maintain that Putin “works for the Jews”.

    • Agree: Colin Wright
  197. ivan says:
    @L.K

    Precisely. Since university students and feminists and such like, are not likely to be able to take the fight to the police or republican guards they are particularly vulnerable when the focus shifts elsewhere. The intelligence people will pick them off at leisure. For that reason to be identified indirectly as supporters of the Zionists is hazardous for them. But do the Zionists care?

    A parallel can be drawn with the ongoing protests in India, where the fascist BJP has been trying to paint the protesters as being in the lap of Pakistan. The Pakistani leadership very wisely has chosen not to comment on the protests, for they know that it would be twisted to the BJP’s advantage.

    By contrast the Israelis and Americans do not care as to what happens to the protesters after the cameras have left. Such being the totally cynical and immoral nature of these people.

  198. ivan says:

    From the discussion at

    https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/628650-ukrainian-aircraft-down-iran-28.html

    the balance of probability is that one particular Iranian unit was not properly trained and fired off not one but two missiles (the second quite some time after) that downed the unfortunate Ukranian airliner. It seems that way as if the TOR system is largely analog (according to utu), the possibility of hacking is non-existent save for someone actually changing the parts.

  199. ivan says:
    @L.K

    Abdollahi should ensure that scapegoating is avoided. That is the main thing. The Israelis are particularly adept at misdirection and planting false stories, possibly implicating innocents. Falling for that will hand them another victory.

    • Replies: @L.K
  200. Consider: Iran approaches the U.S. or alternatively the U.S. approaches Iran, quietly through back channels. It has been established that a particular general’s activities have become counterproductive. He stands in the way of any chance of a stand down, or even if negotiated, would soon incite failure of such an eventuality.

    After both sides agree that this certain general is a political problem and that his removal if done by the Iranians might lead to internal disorder, it is agreed that if the U.S. takes out the general, Iran would launch a few retaliatory missiles having only benign results. …The missiles fall harmlessly and the U.S. quietly absorbs the hit.

    Then the Iranian leadership, i.e. the Iranian establishment, is not disestablished — it remains in power. An internal threat to the establishment is removed. …and the impediment to some kind of
    negotiated rapprochement with the U.S. is gone. Maybe the game was getting too rough. Maybe the Iranians decided that becoming a battleground in a proxy war between the U.S. and Russia or China was unpalatable.

    Maybe the Iranians decided the devil known was better than the devil unknown. Maybe a lot of face was saved all around. Maybe the General had become a nuisance.

    Maybe the downing of the aircraft was a sacrificial lamb. Maybe the entire thing was prearranged.

    Maybe Trudeau in Canada agreed to accept to be the shock absorber. If the Iranians took out a U.S. aircraft there would be calls within the U.S. for retaliation.

    Such things happen. More often than one might think.

  201. Alfred says:
    @AnonStarter

    Out of the 100+ comments here, no one has mentioned the real ownership of Ukraine International Airlines.

    Kolomoisky amongst ultimate beneficiaries of Ukraine’s biggest airline (2015)

    Kolomoisky is the financier and owner of the terrorist group that carried out the massacre of anti-Maidan protesters in Odessa and the shootings in Mariupol. He has his own private army.

    Kiev protégé allegedly behind Mariupol and Odessa massacres – leaked tapes

    This “gentleman” lives in Israel.

    Anyone who thinks that the Russians and Iranians have any delusions as to who was really behind this tragedy ought to read up his history.

    Suggested reading:

    What is the role of oligarch Kolomoisky and his private army in the shot down of MH17?

    Finally:

    Do not be surprised if an Israeli airliner with 200 passengers were to “disappear” in the next 12 months. That is what happened to Pan Am when the Americans played this “game”

    • Thanks: Iris
  202. Biff says:
    @A123

    For example, did this Russian motorist have advance knowledge of the meteor track to obtain this footage?

    I guess basement dwellers aren’t privy to the fact that certain insurance companies around the globe require dash cams to be looping in the vehicle at all times.

    • Troll: A123
  203. PeterMX says:
    @Franklin Ryckaert

    And I have not read it yet, but Paul Craig Roberts writes “The Iranian Protests Are a Washington [Jewish] Orchestration”.

    https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2020/01/13/the-iranian-protests-are-a-washington-orchestration/

    Of course this makes sense. How can you have over 1 million people mourn the General’s murder and have insensitve pigs like this protesting Iran? Racist and murderous Israel is the probkem and always will be as long as they have the power they have. They have turned the entire middle east, an area with few problems compared to Europe when it was up in flames in WW I and WW II, into a hotbed of hatred and violence. It makes me wonder what the Jews might have done to Madagascar and Africa if Germany had won WW II and carried out its plan to move Jews to Madagascar.

  204. Momus says:
    @Onlooker

    Point is that there should have been no civilian flights from that airport for 24 hrs if they expected incoming.

    The blame and liability is entirely on the Iranians. How can they be trusted with anything more potent than water pistols?

    • Replies: @anon
  205. PeterMX says:
    @PeterMX

    I’ve read PCR’s article and it explains a lot. I have been wondeering why I have met more than one young Russian that can’t stand Predident Putin, but when I asked one idiot if he was familiar with Yeltsn, he said he knew nothing ab9ut him.

  206. Thomasina says:
    @onebornfree

    onebornfree – thanks for that good reminder. People start referring to these things as if they’re proven fact, and pretty soon I’m debating with them when, as you correctly say, they might not be genuine at all.

    Thanks.

    • Replies: @onebornfree
  207. @Ron Unz

    I wonder if the protesters were really protesting because the régime had lied for a couple of days. Is it not likely that they (whether properly described as The Saker’s fifth columnists or not) had been handed an opportunity to protest against the régime on a relatively safe issue. In short tey weren’t going to be treated as traotors for criticicing the lies of government.

    • Agree: Colin Wright
  208. So let me see if I understand. The US military has the capability to jam/turn off a commercial aircraft transponder over enemy territory and at the same time jam the enemies air defense system, but it could not thwart a precision strike on it’s own military base hundreds of miles away? — A strike which seems to demonstrate to American taxpayers, allies and defense contractor customers that billions spent on air defense shields have been wasted on phony technology.

  209. @geokat62

    How do you say “goodbye dual loyalty” in Russian?

    “Knock knock!”
    “Who is it?”
    “Putin.”
    “Putin who?”
    “Putin you out of your misery.”

    • LOL: geokat62
  210. HBM says:

    I share Phil’s skepticism and don’t rule out that the Iranians didn’t actually do it. That it was an Iranian error seems about as likely to me as the US or Israel or KSA being directly responsible.

    And I still wonder if Israel didn’t assassinate Soleimani directly. Trump might have been a willing participant. Or Pompeo and the donor gang might have weaseled and wheedled an ignorant Trump into it, which could account for Trump’s apparent surprise at the whole thing. Or, perhaps, an Israeli stealth drone did it. Perhaps Israel was not happy with Trump’s willingness to engage Iran, and they saw their opportunity to kill Soleimani and took it, daring the US to call them out. At the outset the Iranians claimed Washington invited Soleimani for some sort of detente with KSA but was betrayed. Bibi came out, unprovoked, and 100% denied Israeli involvement. The Iranian missile retaliation was obviously theater; US bases had been forewarned, making it look to me like a US-approved face-saving action for Iran, not entirely unlike Trump’s attack on Syrian airfields over Assad’s “gas attack.” (Trump quickly claimed zero casualties although some now are stating 11 Americans were injured.) Esper publicly contradicted Trump on the alleged Iranian “planned attacks” that justified the assassination. Recently the administration claimed the attack wasn’t a surprise but “had been planned for months.” Of course the media has no interest in vigorously pursuing the truth of the event, since Israel benefits.

  211. Stefan says:
    @anon

    “IFF systems can only determine if an aircraft is a friend or foe if the aircraft is IFF equipped. No commercial airliners have IFFs on board.”

    Wrong on both counts.

    Give it up!

    • Replies: @anon
  212. @PeterMX

    Yes, whether they would have been settled in Madagascar or even Birobidzhan, they would have destabilized their neighboring region. All out of “self-defense” of course. Such is the nature of this people.

  213. Stefan says:
    @anon

    ” No commercial airliners have IFFs on board.”

    They don’t need to Duhhhhh!

    The properly functioning transponder on a commercial aircaft would transmit its unique squawk code that identifies it as a non-military target when interrogated by IFF radar.

    Like I said,

    GIVE IT UP!

    • Replies: @anon
  214. Parfois1 says:
    @Just passing through

    The Jewish PR machine has sure did a good job conditioning the people is all I can say.

    It’s one of their specialities, or preserves I might say. The PR industry is one of their “inventions” for propagating the Jewish message and, of course, money-making. Freud’s nephew, Edward Bernays, is credited as being the originator.

    I’m trying to paste a link to Adam Curtis’s “The Century of the Self” documentary but something is blocking my efforts. You have to do a search, but it is a worthwhile effort for those who have not watched it. It’s fairly long, about 3 hours in 3 parts.

    It’s an eye-opener for anyone trying to understand the driving forces that shaped the XX century society, namely the rise of the Jewish institutions and individuals who influenced and changed the “Western” mind.

    Most of what we were taught and read had an underlining message, similarly to what Wikipaedia is doing today, from subliminal persuasion to academic curricula, inspired by a Jewish agenda through think-tanks and foundations such as the Tavistock Clinic and the Frankfurt School. Basically, social sciences and philosophy became a Jewish narrative.

    • Thanks: Iris
  215. @The Company

    That argument seems to make sense, unless you know the following :

    “While talking the macho talk before the Joe Q(less) Public, Trump walks a different walk, furiously but SECRETLY tries to mend fences with Iranians, urges them to de-escalate, once again confirming the MO that I always ascribed to him—say one thing for idiot goyim in order to protect himself from outright assault by Jew while working in quite the opposite direction
    “I’d Like To See Them Call Me”: How Trump Used An Encrypted Swiss Fax Machine To Defuse The Iran Crisis

    Even as Trump was rage-tweeting on Jan 4, two days after the killing of Iran’s top military leader Qassem Soleimani, that he would hit 52 targets including Iranian heritage sites for potential retaliation if America suffered losses following an Iranian attack, warning that “those targets, and Iran itself, WILL BE HIT VERY FAST AND VERY HARD”, the US president was busy, secretly using an encrypted back-channel to bring the world back from the brink of war.

    As the WSJ reports, just hours after the U.S. strike which killed Iranian Maj. Gen. Qassem Soleimani, the Trump administration sent an urgent back channel message to Tehran: “Don’t escalate.” The encrypted fax message was sent via the Swiss Embassy in Iran, one of the few means of direct, confidential communication between the two sides, U.S. officials told the WSJ. Then, in frantic attempts to de-escalate even as top US and Iranian leaders were stirring patriotic sentiment and nationalistic fervor, the White House and Iranian leaders exchanged further messages in the days that followed, which officials in both countries described as far more measured than the fiery rhetoric traded publicly by politicians.

    Source : Comment by “Lobro” on the article “Israel’s Fingerprints Are All Over the Assassination of Qasem Soleimani” on Lasha Darkmoon’s website.

    So Trump secretly made a deal with the Iranians that they were allowed to retaliate but without making victims. Thus Iran would have “saved face” without forcing the US to start a war. This means that Trump is not entirely controlled by the Jews. They set up this fall, but Trump did not bite.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  216. Parfois1 says:
    @Ron Unz

    And that’s why they are so long?

  217. Probability of a transponder ceasing to emit ? Dont ‘know , but let’s assume it’s 1 %
    Probability of a bystander walking just under the interception scene with a convenient night camera at 6 am ? Don’t know either, but let’s assume honnestly it’s 10% , at best.
    Now if the two events are “independant” (as they should be), the probability of the two occuring simultaneously, or near simultaneously to simplify, is 1/100 * 1/10 = 1 out 1000 chances . low !
    But “the bigger it is, the easier it goes” (Adolf). I think it’s because extreme crimes are unikely , or so think the average man. So the one who points the finger at such an uncanny crime seems to be himself the extreme weirdo, and thus is not believed. So , paradoxically doing extreme crimes is easier than doinf little offenses ? Maybe sometimes…

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  218. Herald says:
    @ivan

    After telling bare faced lies, the captain of the Vincennes was awarded the ‘Legion of Merit’ medal “for outstanding service in the Persian Gulf.” Bloody incredible.

  219. onebornfree says: • Website
    @Thomasina

    Yes, it’s terrifying to me when I witness the typical starting “investigative” assumptions made for alleged events like this, including the almost always inevitable assumption [without further close analysis] that videos and photos are in any way genuine.

    Almost all “serious”, “scientific”, “alternative” investigations of these types of events start with such an unproven assumption, or even an admittance on the part of the “investigator” that such an [ultimately] important assumption has been made in the first place.

    Which leads to an inevitable “cat chasing its own tail” situation, which might be fun to watch for a while, but which inevitably leads “investigators” absolutely nowhere.

    And so it goes…

    So have fun watching the cats[s] 😀

    Regards, onebornfree

  220. sally says:
    @AnonStarter

    you might look at this analysis.. as it says two missiles hit the aircraft,, one terrorist missile the other freindly fire.. https://logik-idee.com/2020/01/16/iran-plane-crash-ps-572-a-terror-attack-what-caused-last-explosion-4-seconds-before-plane-crash/.. very good analysis..

  221. I wrote a similar article on my blog published on the 16th Jan and raised many of the same points. Produced a video called “The Plane Truth”.

    https://www.biblaridion.info/blog/who-can-war-against-the-beast/

    Will include a link to this article in the next couple of days.

  222. @DaveE

    Google changed their search algorithm to omit or bury non-kosher results, I’ve seen it firsthand for a website I created 17 years ago, the content of which is harshly critical of Israel. Suddenly, within the last year or two, only search bots are visiting the site.

    YouTube accomplished the same by removing video content deemed “conspiracy theories” or the like from its recommended videos, and in search results.

    I know there are similar things going on at Facebook and Twitter.

    So no, the internet is no longer the wild frontier of free info anymore.

    That is coupled with recent anti-BDS legislation and the denial of federal funding to universities if there are students who are offended by pro-Palestinian protests (now deemed to be “anti-Semitism” in the newly-broadened definition thereof).

    I knew this day would come. It doesn’t make it any less sickening to sit back and watch it go down.

    And “nobody seems to notice…. nobody seems to care…” – George Carlin <–The worst part of all of this

  223. anon[230] • Disclaimer says:
    @Stefan

    “IFF systems can only determine if an aircraft is a friend or foe if the aircraft is IFF equipped. No commercial airliners have IFFs on board.”

    Wrong on both counts.

    Give it up!

    Prove it. Provide a link to the actual FAA regulation on the faa.gov website requiring an IFF on a 737.

    • Replies: @Kapyong
  224. anon[105] • Disclaimer says:
    @Momus

    Iranians don’t need Israel -America ‘s trusts . Actually no one needs . They just need to find the Achilles hill and they are plenty .
    Great Satan and Little Satan have exchanged their first names .
    Question is how Israel will enjoy the next holocaust not more severe than what it have been for Gaza West Bank Lebanon Iraq and Syria .

  225. anon[230] • Disclaimer says:
    @Stefan

    ” No commercial airliners have IFFs on board.”

    They don’t need to Duhhhhh!

    The properly functioning transponder on a commercial aircaft would transmit its unique squawk code that identifies it as a non-military target when interrogated by IFF radar.

    Here is a link to the actual FAA regulation regarding squawk codes.

    http://tfmlearning.faa.gov/Publications/ATpubs/ATC/atc0502.html

    If you read through the document, you will find that squawk codes do not identify a non-military aircraft or are even uniquely assigned but rather what flight phase and airspace an aircraft is in or if an aircraft has an emergency.

    It would be great if people had even a minimum understanding of what they were commenting about.

  226. onebornfree says: • Website
    @onebornfree

    onebornfree says: “Almost all “serious”, “scientific”, “alternative” investigations of these types of events start with such an unproven assumption, or even an admittance on the part of the “investigator” that such an [ultimately] important assumption has been made in the first place.”

    Silly me! Incorrectly worded. 😠

    I meant to say :” Almost all “serious”, “scientific”, “alternative” investigations of these types of events starts with such an unproven assumption, with no recognition on the part of the “investigator” that such an [ultimately] important, result-altering assumption has been made in the first place.”

    Sorry bout dat.

    Regards, onebornfree

  227. Kapyong says:
    @anon

    “Prove it. Provide a link to the actual FAA regulation on the faa.gov website requiring an IFF on a 737.”

    Odd isn’t it ?

    The claim that commercial airplanes do NOT have an IFF transponder is supported by evidence – such as that list you posted, which did indeed show an ATC Transponder, but NOT an IFF. A quick search online also seemed to confirm that.

    While the claim that they DO is supported only by opinion and criticism for those who differ.

    I suspect some confusion between the two types of transponder – I understand a military plane can use both commercial and military ATC / IFF codes, but a commercial plane can NOT use military IFF codes (right?)

    • Replies: @anon
    , @A123
  228. @druid55

    I hope these photos haunt these bastards for the rest of their lives!

    I hope so too.

    Unfortunately, they lack empathy and have no conscience.

    These bastards are truly evil people…

    They love the smell of burning flesh…

    And napalm in the morning…

  229. onebornfree says: • Website
    @onebornfree

    Fake Picture Used As This Article’s Header?

    And by the way, the photo that heads this article seems to be fake, or, at the very least , the [supposed] piece of an aircraft appears to have been deliberately placed there as a “photo-op” – no surrounding vegetation damage, no other wreckage in sight.

    And so it goes….

    Regards, onebornfree

  230. Tucker says:
    @El Dato

    My question regarding the cowardly drone missile kill of Soleimani – is whether or not ZOG used his cell phone to triangulate his exact location and then fed those coordinates into the drone’s missile guidance system.

    I remember reading as far back as the early 2000s, that the Cocaine Brain Damaged, Lying WMD narrative peddling war criminal and mass murderer from Crawford, Texas had his military boys tracking cell phones of the goat herders in Afghanistan – and as soon as they turned their phones on, they would pinpoint their exact location and then dispatch a drone missile to those coordinates.

    This ought to be common knowledge within any trained and well educated military force, and based on all of the glowing details I have seen in Soleimani’s career – it would have been a colossally moronic mistake for the guy to have a cell phone on his person that was known to be tied to his name.

    That is like you are asking to be given a predator drone missile suppository. Which is what he was handed. Also, if he did have a cell phone on him – perhaps it was because he thought he had been invited by the Trump White House to go to Baghdad to attend a peace summit and based on that, the guy did not take the proper precautions.

    • Replies: @L.K
  231. Rurik says:
    @Ron Unz

    Well, I’m no expert on all the issues involved in the unfortunate accident, but I still think you’re being much too hard on the Iranian government.

    I have quite a compendium of comments on your site, ‘6,748 Comments • 1,614,500 Words’, going back to 2013.

    In all of those comments, never once did I ever express any hostility towards the present government of Iran. Quite the contrary actually, as I’ve always been a very out-spoken defender of Iran, its government, and its people, especially as I’ve seen them menaced by what I call ‘the fiend’, on the world’s stage – ZOG.

    My criticism of the Iranian regime today, is specifically for lying about what happened to the plane, or, as I mentioned, if their military leaders have no compunction about lying to the regime, and the regime was simply parroting the lies their military leaders told them, then I consider that regime to have lost the respect of its military, and are therefor incompetent. (Which is decidedly better than being liars.)

    So, I don’t think I’m being the least bit unfair. I could imagine myself as an Iranian, and have supported the government ever since 1979, (and would still be in support of the Revolution), but would nevertheless demand that whom ever lied about the plane, must go.

    What I find remarkable, is how many people don’t seem to care if they lied. Mr. Giraldi even mischaracterizes why the Iranians are angry and rioting, and suggests that it was/is due to “ineptitude” over the plane being shot down, when it was not. It was outrage over the lies.

    Like the Iranian protesters, I get that. I’m also struck by how many people don’t seem to think it matters if they lied, or if their military leaders lied.

    As for your resident ‘yellow star’ a-hole:

    L.K.:

    What knowledge does this individual [Rurik ; ] possess of something as specific as Air Defense Systems? None.

    Duh (a-hole). I never suggested otherwise, and you know it.

    . Another thing is that the all information we have, thus far, is way too fragmentary, which is to be expected in a situation like this.

    Is that your way of suggesting that the Iranian regime would have had no knowledge that its own military shot down the plane?

    Why don’t you flesh that out for us all a little bit… Explain to us all, L.K., why it is that it is perfectly understandable why the regime in Iran would demand to the whole world, ‘that they did not shoot down the plane’, OK?

    Is that a sound decision to make, because “all information we have, thus far, is way too fragmentary, which is to be expected in a situation like this.” ?

    In such a situation, is the correct strategy for Iran – to lie about it?

    Or, would you like to suggest that Iran’s military lied to their leaders?

    Or that nobody could have possibly known what happened, because Iran was on a high state of alert, (because Rurik the American, had just assassinated their general, and was now menacing their cultural sites!). Something like that, perhaps L.K.?

    It’s perhaps okay to speculate a bit, but not to make vacuous comments full of certainty and self-righteousness.

    Now that, L.K. was actually well said.

    Take the time to read that over and over a few times, eh?

    “According to experts, the US military had deliberately changed the information on the Ukrainian Boeing 737 flight, making it a real target for the Iranian air defense systems.”

    Any evidence for that?

    Nevertheless, that is exactly what I speculated might have happened on a thread you were on.

    I think I recently read where the Ukrainian jet was affiliated with Israeli/Ukrainian oligarch Ihor Kolomoyskyi. And I couldn’t help but remember his reaction to the downing of MH17, and the hundreds of lives lost, as “a trifle”.

    Perhaps the passenger jet was outfitted with special electronics, remotely turned on- for the purpose of fooling Iran’s SAMs systems, and perhaps to off a few inconvenient people in the process.

    A win/win for the Zionists, and the J-supremacists in Ukraine, who’re running that nation as their private little fiefdom today. Perhaps it all ties in.

    https://www.unz.com/mwhitney/did-pompeo-dupe-trump-into-the-soleimani-hit/#comment-3659255

    And I still consider it perfectly plausible that the Ukrainian jet, was specially outfitted to trick the Iranian SAM systems.

    Do I know anything about the tech necessary to accomplish that? No, of course not. And I would never suggest otherwise (a-hole ; ).

    But it does align with everything I do know about Ukraine today, (J-supremacist occupied territory since the Nuland/Kagan zio-coup).

    ~ with apologies to Mr. Unz for using my reply to you to also reply to the.. emm, other commenter.

    • Troll: L.K
  232. anon[230] • Disclaimer says:
    @Kapyong

    I suspect some confusion between the two types of transponder – I understand a military plane can use both commercial and military ATC / IFF codes, but a commercial plane can NOT use military IFF codes (right?)

    Correct!! A modern military IFF transponder supports all the civilian unencrypted modes PLUS the encrypted military modes which allow you to determine a friend from a foe.

  233. Rurik says:
    @Franklin Ryckaert

    Some Iranians may hate their own government, they surely don’t love the US or Israel.

    This is the conundrum. With the assassination of the beloved general, the people of Iran seemed to be united against their common threat- ZUSA.

    And then the jet is shot out of the sky.

    What to do?

    Take responsibility for some vulnerabilities in your defense systems?

    Or lie about it?

    If they’d had simply told the truth, and said that it appeared that their systems had been hacked, I can’t think of one person who would consider that lacking credibility. The people of Iran would have continued to rally in solidarity against Zion.

    But instead, they lied about it.

    It almost makes you wonder, because if the zios did hack the defenses,

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/52865.htm

    ..then the fallout from the crash would have been against the ((West)). The only way for the crash to have caused a problem for the regime, would be if they lied about it, and then the truth came out, and everyone then knew that they had lied.

    By lying, they created a crisis for the regime that would not have existed, if they’d had simply admitted to some weaknesses in their defenses.

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  234. A123 says:
    @Kapyong

    I suspect some confusion between the two types of transponder – I understand a military plane can use both commercial and military ATC / IFF codes, but a commercial plane can NOT use military IFF codes (right?)

    Correct.

    Every civilian transponder works with US/NATO standard IFF systems.

    — Standard civilian transponder code = IFF military Mode 3.
    — Standard civilian transponder altitude reporting = IFF military Mode C.

    I have not seen specs for Russian IFF, however they also need to identify civilian planes. Integrating the civilian modes into their military standard would be simple & effective.
    _______

    A military transponder has additional modes for combat use that will only squawk when a properly coded interrogation signal is received. Civilian modes are intentionally non-stealthy and radiate frequently.

    PEACE 😇

  235. @AnonStarter

    This was reported several months ago.

    https://www.technologyreview.com/s/614689/ghost-ships-crop-circles-and-soft-gold-a-gps-mystery-in-shanghai/

    sounds like the technology can be used for a lot of nefarious purposes. And my guess is it isn’t the Chinese or should I say they aren’t the only ones if they do have this capability.

  236. KenH says:

    The claim that Major General Qassem Soleimani was a “terrorist” on a mission to carry out an “imminent” attack that would kill hundreds of Americans turned out to be a lie,

    Trump recently said at a rally that Soleimani had killed not hundreds but thousands of Americans and was planning to kill thousands more. When he has the next rally in a few weeks no doubt Soleimani will have been planning to kill millions of Americans.

    Trump and other American politicians are always careful to frame their actions as protecting American lives and interests to mask the fact that they are almost always acting as Israel’s enforcer which is what they were doing by murdering Soleimani. Trump even notified Israel of the pending assassination but not leading members of the Congress.

  237. FB says: • Website
    @Frederick V. Reed

    Does [Mr Giraldi] know anythng about elctronic warfare? This sounds like the birthing of a conspiracy theory.

    No Mr Giraldi doesn’t know enough about electronic warfare to try to shed light on what, if anything, other than ordinary ‘human error’ happened here…

    Conceivably any piece of equipment that uses radio signals can be interfered with…that includes cell phones, military radios, GPS, radar, or even missile guidance systems…

    That is why ICBMs do NOT use any radio frequency devices and instead use self-contained gyroscope-based navigation that cannot be interfered with…these are called inertial navigation systems and are also the primary nav systems on commercial and military aircraft, cruise missiles and other precision guided munitions…

    However, interfering with or jamming the Tor missile system that brought down the passenger jet would have required UFO-level technology…simply because of the distances involved…if you look at a map Tehran is hundreds of kilometers from anyplace that US electronic warfare aircraft could possibly operate…even the most powerful such aircraft in the US inventory, the C-130-based Compass Call is going to to have an effective reach of maybe a few dozen kilometers…

    The only way to have interfered electronically in either the Tor or the downed jet would have been locally from the ground…perhaps by some saboteurs…this would have perhaps involved radio voice communications at most…

    The doomed flight was tracked on the popular web based tracking systems [which are made possible by the new generation of ADS-B transponders that almost all commercial jets now use, and which transmit the airplane position, speed and direction of flight…that why it’s possible for anyone with a receiver to see basically what ATC sees…]

    The plane did appear to lose its ADSB signal, but whether or not this was before or after the airplane was hit is not clear…if it was after the hit, it might have been the pilot attempting to follow procedure by setting the transponder to ‘squawk’ an emergency code…but mistakenly turning it off instead…

    Again, conceivably, the airplane’s transponder could have been jammed from the ground, but what would be the point of that…?

    It would not do anything to confuse the Tor…spoofing the transponder signal to make it appear to the Tor that it is going in a different direction is again theoretically possible using ground equipment nearby…although this would involve extremely specialized equipment…I would say there is really zero chance of that…

    In any case, it is impossible to spoof the Tor radar into thinking a Boeing 737 is a small cruise missile…Spoofing doesn’t work like that…it uses what’s called Digital Radio Frequency Memory [DRFM] to capture the enemy radar signal and send it back slightly altered…for direction, speed etc…for example a small delay that mimics a Doppler Shift, from which radars get their direction info about a target…

    This is obviously very handy to have on a fighter jet for instance…so you can spoof your adversary into thinking you’re someplace you aren’t…

    As far as ‘spoofing’ the Tor system…that is completely unlikely since it has not only two very sophisticated radar systems but also visual imaging sensors for both visible and thermal…here is a Tor picking up a small quadcopter drone on its display…

    Now the only interesting thing here is the fact that we have those ‘videographers’ that just happen to be pointing their cameras at the right place at the right time…in a very big and dark night sky…

    Certainly that is suspicious…and it does raise the faint possibility that something untoward was afoot…

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Ilyana_Rozumova
    , @JT
  238. Alfred says:
    @anonymous

    It is ridiculous to claim that civilian aircraft are ever equipped with Identification Friend or Foe. If that were the case, why are they not also equipped with cannon and bomb bays?

    The only airline that might have such gear is El Al. They are reputed to have flares and suchlike. I guess that must have something to do with their fear of retribution. Just like a gangster who carries a pistol – just in case.

  239. Thomasina says:
    @onebornfree

    Good points. Thanks. There are so many lies being bandied about today, it’s hard to discern what’s real and what’s not, and this is being done by so-called trusted sources (government, FBI, DOJ), so most people believe it must be true, i.e. the Steele dossier, supposed chemical attacks by Syria.

    What we are witnessing today is psychopathic in nature: lies, manipulation, no conscience, no guilt, no remorse. Like having a psychopathic parent. Spin big lies and create chaos so no one can get a bead on what’s true and what’s not, and keep the lies flowing so senses are overwhelmed.

    In his buffoonish way, Trump is exposing the lies and intent, like when he said, “We’re staying in Iraq and Syria, we like oil, we’re keeping their oil.” He sounded like an idiot, but I think it was intentional. He is exposing the neocons’ intentions.

    Have a good day.

    • Agree: Alfred
    • Replies: @Desert Fox
    , @onebornfree
  240. Wally says:
    @FB

    Thanks.

    Interesting, well stated information & thoughts.

  241. Skeptikal says:
    @JimDandy

    Read what Tom Luongo has to say about how Trump has been played by the Dems and his own “team.”
    Per Luongo they now have Trump where they want him.
    In a trap.
    https://tomluongo.me/2020/01/14/impeachment-soleimani-pull-swamp/

    • Replies: @artichoke
  242. Trinity says:

    It has been stated that the Khazar theory has officially been debunked but damn if these people–the self proclaimed Jews– don’t have the same quirks, peculiarities,paranoia, and warmongering tendencies of the ancient Khazars. And most of the so-called, Ashkenazi Jews do not look like Middle Easterners at all. They do look exactly like were they are from and that is Eastern Europe. But then again if we are to take the Old Testament as a historical text, even the Jews of the Bible were constantly at war against some other tribe. I, for one, don’t think that these “Ashkenazi Jews” are the Jews spoken of in the Holy Bible, they certainly don’t look like someone of that region, but that could have happened due to race mixing with Europeans, who knows or who really cares. What matters is that these people will not and can not it seems, live in peace with any other race, religion or creed. They have been booted out of different countries and regions over 100 times and the during their entire stay in the Middle East since the land of Palestine was stolen, these people have constantly stirred up trouble and reaped untold harm on Palestinians, Syrians, Lebanese, even the elderly, women and children of that region. And lest we forget that British and American lives were also taken by these people with acts of purposeful violence on the USS Liberty and the Lavon Affair. These same people are also directly and indirectly responsible for much of the racial division and hatred that has been stirred up over the years in America and now even in Europe. Most of the originators of the anti-White hatred that was taught in our colleges and universities in the 1960’s was nearly an entire Jewish led agenda with Jewish professors spewing their hate to young and impressionable minds. This wasn’t education, it was indoctrination. Even today, when you hear or read about some over the top and openly anti-White rhetoric being espoused by some professor in some college in America or abroad, you can almost guarantee that the professor will more than likely be Jewish more often than not, with a token nonwhite sprinkled in every now and then for good measure.

  243. Mike-SMO says:

    You guys are having way too much fun. The general screw up theory has a lot going fo it.

    The mobile missile units have to communicate by radio. Strict radio discipline is an absolute necessity. When “everyone” talks, no body talks.

    The mobile units complicate an attackers planning but unless the new locations are tested, interference between adjacent units (jamming (sic)) is likely.

    Also ATC transponders challenged/interrogated by multiple sites (ATC, AA defense, possibly fighters in the vicinity) might “overload” a transponder making it appear to be off/gone. I don’t think that transponders have a”busy” signal.

    No defensive AA site would trust a transponder return since it would be too easy to spoof. It might suggest a civilian aircraft only if the missile operator was given the scheduled time(s).

    Many of the radar units might be working on similar frequencies so adjacent units might effectively jam one-another if the arangement was not tested before it was actually used.

    The altitude of the unknown target was too high. As has been shown in Syria, the nasty stuff comes in at “tree-top level. A family member, who rode BUFFs (B-52s), joked about leaves and twigs in the under-wing pylons and having to stop at stop signs along country roads.

    As far as the camera images, “everybody” has multi camera surveilance systems. The local Walmart, which I passed yesterday, is festooned with cameras and there is a trailor/mast system with another camera system. The home security systems that I have seen, have multiple camers that download to a recorder with a DVD carosel. In Iran, it seems obvious that something might happen and there was a nearby facility of some kind, so mounting a camera cluster pointing all over the sky in that area would be something that an amateur techie might do. If nothing, the DVDs are cheap, not like conventional film. He/she/they got lucky with one of the cameras. Probably made some good money selling those images.

    The IRGC/Quds force has been recruiting for loyalty and obediance rather than for “smart”. Setting up and running an aircraft traffic control system and an air defense system require quite a bit of “smart”. Running an air defense system within the operations area of a major civilian airport is tricky, at best. Diverting all civilian traffic away from valuable military facilities would have been “smart”. At the speeds of jet aircraft and cruise missiles, the operators don’t have a lot of time to workout ambiguity or conflicts. A defense missile system operator is also likely under pressure to shoot before the “next” cruise missile hits his launcher (use it or loose it).

    Who, in G-d’s names, thought it would be a good idea to run foreign civilian aircraft through a critical defense zone without reliable communications?

    It may be fun to consider nefarious plots, but this seems like a traditional “Ooops” cascade. Run of the mill incompetance seems more likely than a super sophisticated plot/infiltration/trick.

  244. awry says:
    @Ilyana_Rozumova

    The SAM operators didn’t see the plane, sitting inside the vehicle, just the radar screen. Apparently their superiors lost communication with civilian air control and so they didn’t tell them that an airliner is taking off. The Tor-M1 SAM complex cannot interrogate civilian transponders, just Soviet/Russian IFF. It was designed and made in the USSR (or in Russia in the 90s, but the same thing). Of course the Iranians may have modified it, but probably only to make it compatible with the IFF systems their military planes are using.

  245. @The Company

    ‘… but it could not thwart a precision strike on it’s own military base hundreds of miles away? ‘

    Why would we want to thwart an Iranian missile strike on our base?

    If we were going to do that, what was the point of assassinating Soleimani in the first place?

  246. @Franklin Ryckaert

    ‘… So Trump secretly made a deal with the Iranians that they were allowed to retaliate but without making victims. Thus Iran would have “saved face” without forcing the US to start a war. This means that Trump is not entirely controlled by the Jews. They set up this fall, but Trump did not bite.’

    I think you overestimate Trump. I’ll be happy to be proved wrong, but that’s what I think.

    • Replies: @The Company
  247. @Christophe GJ

    ‘… Now if the two events are “independant” (as they should be), the probability of the two occuring simultaneously, or near simultaneously to simplify, is 1/100 * 1/10 = 1 out 1000 chances . low !’

    Multiply by the number of possible bystanders in a city the size of Tehran. Multiply also by everyone being on edge and waiting for something to happen.

    I don’t see it as necessarily all that improbable.

  248. artichoke says:
    @Anonymous

    If ATC uses different frequencies for receive and transmit, how can airplanes hear other airplanes communicating with ATC? And if it’s all the same frequency regardless of location, why does one ATC center give a frequency for the aircraft to contact the next ATC center?

    • Replies: @A123
  249. artichoke says:
    @Skeptikal

    His removing John Bolton and refusal to attack Iran is driving the neoconservatives to apoplexy. They want their holy war against the apostate Shi’ites and they will get it. Mike Pence will be their avatar until such time as he can be removed through a sham election in 2020.

    That is, the neocons want a losing war against Iran. Just like our actions after 9/11 strengthened Iran, they want us to lose again. Remember John McCain consorting with various scumbags over in the middle east.

    Trump wants a winning war against Iran. You do that totally differently, for example you send away Soleimani while not attacking the ordinary Iranian people. What’s driving the neos to apoplexy is that they, like many on this very site, want Iran to win. And suddenly Iran’s losing, the mullah government is losing its grip.

  250. @Thomasina

    I wish you were right, but Trump is a puppet of zionist Israel and a war criminal just like the Bush’s and Clintons and Obama, all controlled by zionists and all have had a hand in destroying the middle east for satanic Israel.

  251. @Rurik

    A ZUS perpetual & dual purpose vice/virtue practice and distracting commenter-attention by holding Iran leadership to a higher moral standard, feet-to-fire, 🙄Rurik lectured Franklin Ryckaert:
    “By lying, they created a crisis for the regime that would not have existed, if they’d had simply admitted to some weaknesses in their defenses.?”

    Am very sorry you have created & inflicted a credibility “crisis” upon yourself, Rurik. Btw, ZUS admits no weakness in either defense or offense.

    • Agree: FB, L.K, Iris
    • Replies: @Rurik
  252. A123 says:
    @artichoke

    If ATC uses different frequencies for receive and transmit, how can airplanes hear other airplanes communicating with ATC? And if it’s all the same frequency regardless of location, why does one ATC center give a frequency for the aircraft to contact the next ATC center?

    You might be crossing two different concepts.

    Air Traffic Control [ATC] audio uses different reserved frequencies for each “center” and ground station (e.g. airport). These are selected to avoid interfering with each other. I assume this is the ATC center ‘to next center’ vocal handoff that you are asking about.

    The frequencies for ATC radar are 100% different than the reserved audio bands, but the same across all ATC locations. Using separate receive and transmit frequencies helps prevent accidental swamping of a squawk response by a stronger interrogation signal.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @ploni almoni
  253. L.K says:
    @Tucker

    My question regarding the cowardly drone missile kill of Soleimani – is whether or not ZOG used his cell phone to triangulate his exact location and then fed those coordinates into the drone’s missile guidance system.

    Going from memory, Gen. Soleimani was travelling very publicly, on a sort of official diplomatic mission, even taking a commercial flight from Lebanon, I think it was.
    So there was nothing really secret about his time and location.

  254. L.K says:
    @ivan

    One aspect Abdollahi mentioned, internal sabotage, is worth mulling over.
    We know that the US & Israel have operatives inside Iran, who have even assassinated several Iranian scientists in the recent past. There is a 5th column within the country.
    Several years after the Israeli defeat in 2006, Hezbollah, who runs a very tight ship, busted a Zionist infiltrator cell inside its military wing.

    The anonymous videographer could point towards something of that nature…

    https://ahtribune.com/world/north-africa-south-west-asia/iran/3809-jet-disaster-setup.html
    JANUARY 14 , 2020BY SORAYA SEPAHPOUR-ULRICH
    Iran Jet Disaster Setup – Who Is the Mysterious Videographer?

    The anonymous videographer is the person who caught the 19-second clip which shows a missile striking Flight PS752 shortly after take-off from Tehran’s Imam Khomenei airport at around 6.15 am. This person, who remains silent during the filming while smoking a cigarette (the smoke briefly wafts over the screen), is standing in the suburb of Parand looking northwest. His location was verified by the NY Times using satellite data. The rapid way the newspaper’s technical resources were marshaled raises a curious question about how a seemingly random video submission was afforded such punctilious attention.

    But the big question which many people on social media are asking is:
    why was this “videographer” standing in a derelict industrial area outside Tehran at around six o’clock in the morning with a mobile phone camera training on a fixed angle to the darkened sky? The airliner is barely visible, yet the sky-watching person has the camera pointed and ready to film a most dramatic event, seconds before it happened. That strongly suggests, foreknowledge.

    Given that something awful has just been witnessed it is all the more strange that the person holding the camera remains calm and unshaken. There is no audible expression of shock or even the slightest disquiet.

    Turns out that Nariman Gharib, the guy who received the video and credited by the NY Times for submitting it, is a vociferous anti-Iranian government dissident who does not live in Iran. He ardently promotes regime change in his social media posts. …

    • Replies: @ivan
  255. Rurik says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    Am very sorry you have created & inflicted a credibility “crisis” upon yourself, Rurik.

    No Chuck

    Let me say it here, very, very concisely

    2 + 2 = 4

    2 + 2 does not = 5, nor does it = 3.5

    2 + 2 = 4

    And I don’t care how many agenda-driven people are willing to compromise on that fact, because they harbor a personal agenda that either aligns with 2 + 2 = 5, so long as it’s their guy making the claim.

    Iran’s leadership either lied, when it claimed it didn’t shoot down the jet, or its military lied to them.

    Now, Chuck, what part about that are you willing to argue about, eh?

    I’m assuming that you aren’t because you can’t.

    So, what that means, is that because you’re on Iran’s side, you’re willing to give them a pass for an outright lie (of major global significance). I guess because everyone lies, right?

    Is that it?

    Is that why so many are taking the side of Iran’s leadership vis-à-vis their overt lies? Because everyone lies, and so what’s the big deal?

    If so, then at least it would be good to know that that’s the score, and that when leaders lie, it all depends on whether or not you like them, when it comes to passing judgment.

  256. onebornfree says: • Website
    @Thomasina

    Thomasina says: “Good points. Thanks. There are so many lies being bandied about today, it’s hard to discern what’s real and what’s not, and this is being done by so-called trusted sources (government, FBI, DOJ), so most people believe it must be true”

    Yes, it’s a hard lesson to both learn, and take to heart , and its also hard to consistently apply the lesson once learned.

    The only reason I know any of this is via my experience with investigating 9/11. It took lone researcher Simon Shacks incredible research to get me to understand that all of the “live” US MSM footage of the events of that morning , including Fl. 175’s “strike” into WTC2, and the subsequent *collapses of WTC’s 2, then 1, then 7, was in fact pre-fabricated , computer generated [C.G.I.] fake “live” footage, which was then falsely broadcast that morning as being authentic “live” footage:

    See: “The 9/11 Scam-The Faked “Live” MSM Imagery”:
    http://onebornfrees911researchreview.blogspot.com/2019/12/the-911-scam-faked-live-msm-imagery.html

    Once the individual crosses that particular “Rubicon” , there is no going back to immediately , if ever believing the authenticity of any imagery put out by the MSM , or even the “alternative” press [ including the image that heads this article, which appears to my practised eye to be a fake picture, for a number of reasons given in a previous post here].

    Regards, onebornfree

    • Replies: @artichoke
  257. @Anonymous

    What you are saying is that while attacking all military transponder signals are left on to identify them as foe. If that were the case, “stealth” aircraft wouldn’t be stealth.
    I didn’t say that airplanes couldn’t be tracked by radar.

    • Replies: @anon
  258. Ben_C says:

    There were no “riots” in Iran after the downing of the commercial aircraft Phil. As we’ve already been told over and over, there was just a resumption of the most “peaceful” of “protests” that are currently ongoing.

  259. Hi Rurik!

    Fyi, while in multiple Middle East countries, January 1981,* the victorious Reagan administration must have really liked (unamed) cooperative Iranian negotiating-officials, as Ayatollah Khomeini released the American hostages after Carter was defeated. 🙄 Another example of a Greatest History Story Never Told, eh Rurik?

    Islamic Republic of Iran, government zeitgeist, circa 1980;
    “Hooray…, Great GOP Satan!” and “Down with the Democrat Camp David Satan!”

    (Zigh)

    Below, Rurik, was the calculus (start) of Zion’s Old Big Deal of Century, 😳and a preview of the catastrophic endgame that’s coming soon to the present Trumpstein/Netanyahu Likud Middle East.

    2. USrael/KSA + 2. War targets Iraq/Iran =
    4-get aboudda’ Sunni/Shia unity. 👹

    (Zigh) You best be fo’ Greater Israel or you done be ‘agin it! So be pissed at Iran for “lying,” eh Rurik? 🙄 Okay, okay, but see more World Jewish Congress alegebra, below?

    1. Ukraine airliner down + 1. Trump Jumbo Jet downed by impeachment = 1 jump-start for Zio Biden’s version of New Deal of The PNAC.

    So continue to pass judgement upon lyin’ Iran, Rurik,👍, and meanwhile, the Chosen One will bless his ZUS ammunition.
    An Ed Murrow “Good luck,” and a Phil Giraldi “Good Night America.”

    * 1981, while ambling around occupied Bethlehem streets, & along with a bright Palestinian tour guide, I politely asked him about Jews and public display of Christian symbols, art. The man replied, “I will tell you truth, young man, “The Israelis even detest appearances of plus (+) symbols at markets because such evokes a Cross ➕ in people’s minds.”

    • Replies: @Rurik
  260. ivan says:
    @L.K

    I think mike-SMO, 251 has that covered. Its most likely from a static surveillance camera.

    • Disagree: L.K
  261. Parfois1 says:

    @ Rurik

    In my opinion, you are very tough on Iran demanding that their leadership obey the highest standards of morality regardless of any consequence. That is not the duty of a government whose paramount duty is to defend its people, especially of a country under a state of siege and facing the most abominable enemies in human history: one that has a proven record of incinerating cities in already defeated Germany and Japan, and another ready to emulate and even outdo the other.

    You should consider the possibility that the Iranian government probably denied the shooting down as the normal reaction of a person who does not know or even having an inkling as to what had happen. One is not required to admit something one doesn’t know.

    After being informed, supposedly, by the military that the plane was hit by their own missile, that is not the end of the story: after all, we are still discussing/reading the possibility of other agents being involved in this tragedy. Let’s assume the soldier who pulled the trigger or pressed the button was planted by the Mossad (not an outlandish speculation considering what the Jewish state has been doing since and before it took over Palestine), should the Iranian government confess being at fault?

    There are many alternative explanations about events which might appear clear-cut at first sight. With hindsight, it appears that the Iranian knee-jerk reaction to the downing of the plane was a statement as to how they feel morally about themselves, that is, incapable of doing sucha dastardly crime only Usrael is capable of. According to your view, that was an error of judgement; in my view, that was the honourable response of an upright man.

    As soon as they were disabused about the ostensible cause of the tragedy, they admitted their guilt. Yet they might be wrong. But for you, they are guilty, even if innocent.

    • Agree: FB, Brewer, Robjil
    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
    , @Rurik
  262. Rurik says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    So continue to pass judgement upon lyin’ Iran, Rurik,, and meanwhile, the Chosen One will bless his ZUS ammunition.

    As always Chuck, I know your heart is in the right place.

    But you sort of make my point, that my condemning Iran’s dishonesty in the most strident terms, as is my wont, it only helps bolster Israel’s agenda. True. (if my frothing had any significance beyond a few reader’s consternation).

    But I wasn’t the one who decided to tell the world one hell of a doozy, Iran did.

    All they need to do, is repudiate the men/man whose decision it was to lie, about something as huge as shooting a passenger jet out of the sky.

    For years, you have seen me Chuck, railing and frothing over the lies my government and Israel tell daily. Just consider MH17.. Has there been anyone on Unz, or anyone you know, who’s been more strident in condemning the lies my government and Australia and Ukraine and so many others about that particular atrocity to truth?

    Or the serial lies about Assad’s ‘chemical weapon attack’, or Seth Rich’s ‘robbery, or Putin’s ‘aggression’, or Iran’s ‘terrorism’, or the avalanche of lies we hear relentlessly from the ((media)), and our government traitors.

    I hate lies and I hate liars. Not just Israel’s liars and American liars, but the Saudi liars talking about Yemen’s ‘aggression’, or lying about Khashoggi’s torture/murder, or France’s lies about Libya, and all the rotten, stinking men and women who are false, and rotten.

    How can I then, in good faith, give succor to lies and liars when they open their faces and lies pour out, from the governments and men who I’ve previously supported.

    Wouldn’t that make me a vile hypocrite? If I condemn lies when they’re pouring out of Zion, but then give them a pass when they’re offered up on a plate, from people I formerly defended?

    If a man or country commits a war crime, I will condemn them. American, Israeli, Saudi, or otherwise. And if I found out about Iran or Russia, committing a war crime, you can take it to the bank, that I’ll condemn it, in the most strident terms I can muster.

    I don’t play favorites. A liar is a liar. A war criminal is a war criminal. Tony Blair is for the rope. So too all the American presidents and Senators and congress-whores who’ve broken sacrosanct covenants regarding human rights and human dignity and international law.

    If they’re guilty, they should be judged.

    What Iran did by lying, certainly doesn’t’ rise to the level of war crime, (at least as far as we know), but by lying about something as consequential as the shoot-down, what they did was catastrophic to what all of us want. Peace, in the region. The ZUS *out* of there.

    And perhaps that’s what I’m most disgusted with them for, is doing harm to their credibility, and political capital, right at the moment when they had the world’s sympathy.

    We’re all on the same team, Chuck. I just have less (none ; ) forbearance for lies and liars.

    Cheers.

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  263. @Parfois1

    Dear Parfois1,

    Reckon Rurik thinks Iran’s Supreme Leader is running a monestary or somethibg therof while surrounded by ZUS & Vampire Squid tentacles.

    Rurik might be temporaily paralyzed by the Zion impeachment proceedings & he will eventually come around. Thank you for intervening on his behalf!

  264. Rurik says:
    @Parfois1

    In my opinion, you are very tough on Iran demanding that their leadership obey the highest standards of morality regardless of any consequence.

    The highest standard of morality?

    All I’m saying is that telling lies about something as consequential as shooting a plane down, is egregious, and there must be accountability. Is that holding them to the highest, or minimal standards of morality.

    As I just mentioned, I was at least as strident over the obvious lies that we’re still being told about MH17. Should I use a double standard, depending on if I like or approve of the regime telling the lies?

    You should consider the possibility that the Iranian government probably denied the shooting down as the normal reaction of a person who does not know or even having an inkling as to what had happen.

    They didn’t say they didn’t know. (that would have been fine). What they said, in no uncertain terms, was that Iran did *not* shoot the plane down. Unequivocally. Period.

    One is not required to admit something one doesn’t know.

    They did know. They did it. One doesn’t shoot a jet out of the sky, and not realize it.

    Let’s assume the soldier who pulled the trigger or pressed the button was planted by the Mossad

    Fine. Admit it. Say so!

    I’ve said from the beginning, that if there was hanky-panky, all Iran had to do was come clean, and admit that they are investigating anomalies. But they didn’t and still haven’t’ done so.

    With hindsight, it appears that the Iranian knee-jerk reaction to the downing of the plane was a statement as to how they feel morally about themselves, that is, incapable of doing sucha dastardly crime only Usrael is capable of. According to your view, that was an error of judgement; in my view, that was the honourable response of an upright man.

    Umm, so lying about it, because they didn’t want to be viewed as acting like Israel, makes them ‘honorable’?

    For the record, as far as I know, shooting down the plane, wasn’t a war crime; (Israel’s calling card). It appears either to be an error, or something more clandestine/nefarious. My criticism of Iran, isn’t that the plane was shot down, (other than the normal WTF, are you kidding? You can’t tell the difference between a passenger jet right out of Tehran airport and an incoming cruise missile?!!?!!)

    But that’s all academic, and hopefully the experts and others will fill us all in on the mechanics.

    My point was the lie, not the bizarre and incomprehensible error, hacking, Mossad soldiers, or whatever the hell happened. What they knew, is that their SAMs shot it down.

    As soon as they were disabused about the ostensible cause of the tragedy, they admitted their guilt. Yet they might be wrong. But for you, they are guilty, even if innocent.

    Your logic is flawed. I said they were guilty of lying about it, and they were.

    As for what exactly transpired to cause the tragedy, I suspect we’ll never know.

    • Replies: @Parfois1
    , @anonymous
  265. @Rurik

    Hey Rurik!

    Get a load of AP report, linked below, where Trumpstein has exhibited sheer lying indulgence for hiring “The Best & Truthless” Zio impeachment “Defense Dream Team” available.

    https://apnews.com/3a0f6c7518ce72e63374ddc9e01eeb18

    Haha. And across the Zio GOP-Senate aisle, one sees the Honorable Adam Schiff 👹 upholding great respect & forbearance for lyin’ and the useful liars who tell them. (Note: Thank you, zio-deposed Al Franken, for offering news on your having received selective Odigo message warnings on 9/11😲)

    So in contrast to the “doozy lie” Iran told, Rurik, 🇮🇱-lyin’ Democrats are now counting on Trumpstein’s suddenly truth-toting Judas, John “Bolthead” Bolton’s,🙄 lyin’ impeachment testimony to trump Alan Dershowitz’s defense ‘lyin while wearin’ his silk underwear, and fucking Zio America up it’s giggy.

    Post scriptum: Iran Supreme Leader could straight-face & veritably tell Scranton school kids the story about young Washington’s fabled inability to tell a lie. 😇
    .

    • Replies: @Rurik
  266. anon[400] • Disclaimer says:
    @Curmudgeon

    What you are saying is that while attacking all military transponder signals are left on to identify them as foe. If that were the case, “stealth” aircraft wouldn’t be stealth.

    Yes they still are stealthy. IFF encrypted military Modes 4 and 5, the IFF modes that indicate a friend, only reply (transmit) when they receive a properly formatted encrypted interrogation. Otherwise, they are silent. Air Traffic Control can’t get the IFF Military Modes to reply and neither can an enemy SAM site since they don’t know the encryption keys. In addition, friendly fighters and friendly SAM site interrogators are not constantly scanning intruders to see if they are friend or foe. They only interrogate IFF military modes 4 and 5 right before they are going to shoot the intruder down. So as you see, even though the IFF transponder military modes 4 and 5 are on, the are completely silent unless a friendly is about to shoot them down.

  267. Parfois1 says:
    @Rurik

    @ Rurik

    Recently, I left a sum of money in the room I occupied at a relative’s home. The money disappeared. My host categorically said he did not take the missing money. Subsequently the money was found in a bag amongst other objects taken by him to unclutter the room.

    According to you, it was wrong of him to state he did not do it. He should have said, “We’ll call the police to investigate the theft”, instead.

    The first thing an honest person does is to state how he feels because the announcement of something untoward happening in his home implies an accusation. That’s how I read the Iranian leadership’s first response.

    Mind you, I don’t know how the denial came about. A government involves many individuals and the person with the ultimate authority may not know, in a long chain of command, what and where the truth is. It appears to me that the supreme leader, becoming aware of obfuscation in the ranks, stepped in and told the minions to stop the bullshit and own up.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @Rurik
  268. @Parfois1

    I think your notion of them giving the initial response which reflectedtheir own moral idea of themselves plausible but that the initial error was more likely caused by the military commander understanding or assuming that his political masters would want a decisive answer as soon as possible. As a result he acted after too little inquiry. Any subsequent delay would be understandable if discussions involved “well you’ve got it wrong once: now show us you know the truth” and “is there any chance of our sticking to the lie without being found out?” [Clearly not IMO].

  269. Read Colin Wright reply
    Ok…
    In the end False Flag, it’s a style. Not every wannabe is a specialist of it.
    Reichstag fire to put the blame on the communists : unmasked quickly.
    Rome fire by Neron : we know it ‘s him too !

    The style in itself is the smoking gun… The disregard for human life too.
    Remember the incident in the syrian sky involving a commercial airliner and a F-16 one or two year ago ? F – 16 trying to get close to “melt” the radar signatures (I don’t know exactly I’m not a specialist) to benefit from legal inviolability of the boeing, at the price of the passengers life maybe…Making someone think one thing is another. The very core of false flag Not exactly the same as Theran – Ukraine boeing, but tricky, sneaky, same style… It proves nothing, I know, but it’s a clue, another one in a long list.

  270. anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rurik

    “ .. at least as strident .. ” = even more like a distraught girl?

    I have appreciated many of your comments at this website. But you now want attention for the purity of your principles, calibrated by how strongly you feel. Which seems inconsistent with your rationalizing support for Mr. Trump, who only has to be a little less dreadful than your worst nightmare about Mrs. Clinton.

    Please reflect on how you’re coming across.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  271. @FB

    Something puzzling!
    The Ukrainian plane had the lights on. Than the lights disappeared for fraction of the second and only than visible explosion,
    Could this have some relevance?

    • Replies: @FB
  272. When a criminal takes a hostage and the cops kill the hostage usually on purpose.. Who is to blame?

    Why dont we use the legal standing.. Who was held responsible for killing almost 100 civilians in Waco..

    • Thanks: ChuckOrloski
  273. Rurik says:
    @Parfois1

    According to you, it was wrong of him to state he did not do it.

    How do you make that leap?

    I’m not even sure, by your description, whether he intended to steal the money or not. But assuming he didn’t, then why wouldn’t he protest his guilt? He wasn’t guilty.

    Iran was. Where’s the analogy?

    The first thing an honest person does is to state how he feels because the announcement of something untoward happening in his home implies an accusation. That’s how I read the Iranian leadership’s first response.

    Well, stating how one feels, and protesting their guilt, is fine and understandable. But lying about an extremely consequential event (the shooting down of a passenger jet full of people, killing them all), days after it was known what happened, is not the same, IMHO.

    It appears to me that the supreme leader, becoming aware of obfuscation in the ranks, stepped in and told the minions to stop the bullshit and own up.

    Recently I posted a story from Press TV, (Iran’s media), and from the story, the leadership of Iran was claiming that they never engaged in “misinformation”, which seems to me to be an attempt to rewrite history.

    Let me ask you something, Parfois1, since you seem like a reasonable and thoughtful person, what if it happened again? What if Iran spotted a “drone” over it’s airspace, and shot it down, only to discover that it was an Ukrainian oligarch’s private jet. And his pilot and some civilians died in the crash. And then Iran denied it, and then on proof of what happened, agreed that is was a grievous mistake, and regrettable, and that compensation would be paid.

    Would you then, condemn them for their dishonestly, or does Iran always get a pass, because we’re all supposed to support their leader(s), no matter what ?

    And I do support Iran, (for the record), and always have. But just because a nation like Iran, (or Palestine, or Donbas, or Venezuela, or any other of the myriad nations or people being menaced by ZOG, are victimized and often murdered on a whim), doesn’t mean their leaders all get (or should get, IMHO) a pass on reprehensible acts. Especially when those reprehensible acts lead directly to the credibility of their leaders.

    Is that so beyond the pale?

    A government involves many individuals and the person with the ultimate authority may not know, in a long chain of command, what and where the truth is.

    As I’ve said, I don’t think we’ll ever know exactly what happened, because as you mention, and it isn’t just one government involved, but dozens. And God knows how many spooks and creeps and agenda-driven deepstate types are all spinning their lies and obfuscations and writing CIA media reports, and bullying and bribing and so on. The truth is always the first casualty, as they say.

    • Replies: @Parfois1
  274. Rurik says:
    @anonymous

    like a distraught girl?

    Yea, that’s basically ‘Rurik’s’ persona, a distraught little girl. Darn, I was trying to cultivate that impression without anyone actually catching on. Shucks, you’ve figured me out!

    (I don’t mind a bit of ‘flame’ from time to time, but I do find it tedious from someone who posts as ‘anonymous’).

    Be a big boy, and put on some pants, and decide on a ‘name’, so we can keep better track of your efforts, ok big guy?

    I have appreciated many of your comments at this website.

    OK, thanks, (I think).

    But you now want attention for the purity of your principles, calibrated by how strongly you feel

    I despise liars, as I’m now sounding like a broken record.

    I’m starting to find that dishonestly and deception is becoming all-pervasive in our society. If you go to the grocery store, and don’t want to consume processed chemicals, and see a label in bold letters saying ALL NATURAL ingredients, with big pictures of blueberries on the cover, it will likely be High Fructose Corn syrup, with not one blueberry in the ingredients. I’m starting to get cynical. Sure, our politicians all lie, and that seems to be what politicians do, but Iran was supposed to be different, so it does make me angry, on some personal level. I know Donald Trump lies with his every breath, and so too do our media and all our fecal politicians, but when Putin is speaking, I actually give the man some credibility. Or Assad or Maduro, or so many of the nations and people who are victims of the ZUS’s serial lies and treachery.

    I don’t like lies and treachery and deception, either from men, or food labels, but I have come to expect it. But not from Syria’s Assad, (for instance) who, like Iran, is under a global microscope for any wrong-doing. But imagine if Assad told a doozy of a lie about one of his helicopters machine-gunning a school by mistake, killing a dozen people. And hoped (apparently) to get away with it. Only to find out there was proof of what was done, and so he had to walk-back the original story, and accept all blame for what his government knew at the time, that a tragic mistake had occurred.

    Now, I’d be annoyed that I was lied to, (even if I’ve come to expect it), but there’d be more to it, because I’ve come to consider Assad’s government one of the very few which still has come credibility, to my mind. And so to add to the disgust of being lied to, there’d also be a bit of betrayal in there as well. A sense of personal betrayal, because I used to trust him, and also a sense of the betrayal his people would no-doubt feel, for the deception and also for the consequences of Syria’s government losing some precious credibility, just when it needs it most.

    Do you understand?

    Which seems inconsistent with your rationalizing support for Mr. Trump

    This is something else.

    This is something that needs fleshing out. I don’t support Trump, except insofar as I wonder who would be better?

    Pence? Pelosi? One of the Democrat candidates? The only Democrat that had the integrity and decency to point out the catastrophe to America and beyond, and the evil of the ((Eternal Wars)), was Tulsi Gabbard, and she’s been ‘Ron Pauled’ by the corrupt DNC ((machine)).

    So with Biden or one of the other whores of Zion, we get more Eternal Wars, AND open borders with “free” health care and EBT cards and freebies for all the billions of people on the planet!!

    Weeeee!!

    And Trump seems to have contempt for the Deplorables, but the leftists and The Squad and Maxine and Adam Schiff and the rest, seem to have an unhinged, genocidal hatred for Heritage America.

    So as I bear witness to the reeling, festering, insane animus and malevolence that so many people have for Trump personally, so that every single time you turn on some media somewhere, these people are literally unhinged, and beside themselves, because they Hate Trump’s fucking guts with the seething fury of a thousand exploding suns!!!

    And anyone who doesn’t, is a Trump-lover and racist and a deplorable, irredeemable person !

    Here’s a clue, Bush and Obama were worse.

    They started wars, and they too committed treason with their lies, in service to America’s premiere enemy. Bush presided over 9/11, the false flag attack intended to turn America into the drooling, blood-spattered goon on the world’s stage, mass-murdering and slaughtering and openly torturing untold thousands upon thousands of innocents. While turning America into a Total surveillance police state. But I don’t remember the unhinged, psychotic hated for him personally, that I see with Trump. The same thing with Obama, who destroyed Libya, and sent Syria reeling into hell on earth.. with open calls to bomb Syria into the stone age, al la Libya.

    …yet where are the floodgates spilling out seas of bile, directed at Obama?

    Something is going on here.

    a little less dreadful than your worst nightmare about Mrs. Clinton.

    You

    have

    no

    idea.

    Please reflect on how you’re coming across.

    Yes, I’m defending my position against the entire length and breath of the Unz Review’s assembled intellectual heavies (and one irascible American-hater ; ).

    But like I said, I don’t like lies or liars, (or betrayal) and if that makes me too ‘principled’, then so be it.

    I respect and honor those whose intentions are in good faith, and see Iran as put-upon by a fiend, and therefor deserve our support, and I agree with that. But the lies, and the men who told them, should be accountable, and stop saying you never ‘misrepresented’ what happened, when you did.

    Not for my sake, but for the sake of the Iranian people’s continued respect for their leaders.

  275. Rurik says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    Trumpstein’s suddenly truth-toting Judas, John “Bolthead” Bolton’s, lyin’ impeachment testimony to trump Alan Dershowitz’s defense ‘lyin

    I am pleased to reveal, Chuck, that i’m not nearly as interested in the impeachment ‘circus’ taking place for the theater and farce that it is, than others seem to be.

    I simply don’t have any emotional investment in Trump, either way. So the charade just doesn’t resonate with me. Let them impeach, or not. We’re still going to have the Eternal Wars for Israel, and Gitmo, and open borders, and all the rest. Trump or no Trump.

    If it makes them shut up, then fine, put in Pence. He’ll be no different than Trump, but at least it will shut them up, no?

  276. Learner says:

    Who is pointing a camera to a section of the night sky?Someone who is waiting and knowing something is going to happen in a short period of time. That was my first impression when I watched the video the first time. Will we ever know what really happened?I doubt it.

  277. Trinity says:

    Maybe a large group of people should attend the next Trumpenstein KIG Rally and start drowning out the USA-USA-USA chants with ZSA-ZSA-ZSA, especially when Trumpenstein mentions anything to do with these wars for Israel or moving the American embassy to Jerusalem. Can you imagine the look on Trumpenstein’s face or the perplexed look on the face of the Trumptards. Most of those Trumptards are such lemmings that they might even start going along with the ZSA chant. hahaha.

    To be fair, the demshevik side isn’t any better. It is funny isn’t it, that the only thing Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump can agree on is that America must KEEP ISRAEL GREAT !!!

    ZSA-ZSA-ZSA-ZSA !!!!!

    • Replies: @geokat62
  278. Sparkon says:

    One of Sgt. Joe Friday’s signature lines in the famous U.S. TV drama “Dragnet” was his famous request to babbling drama queens:

    “Just the facts, ma’am.”

    With that in mind, FB has claimed upstream in his #245 that the Tor’s radar couldn’t be jammed or spoofed:

    However, interfering with or jamming the Tor missile system that brought down the passenger jet would have required UFO-level technology…simply because of the distances involved…if you look at a map Tehran is hundreds of kilometers from anyplace that US electronic warfare aircraft could possibly operate
    […]
    In any case, it is impossible to spoof the Tor radar into thinking a Boeing 737 is a small cruise missile

    https://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/who-targeted-ukraine-airlines-flight-752-iran-shot-it-down-but-there-may-be-more-to-the-story/#comment-3666043

    Well, the USAF has in its inventory a number of systems capable of penetrating and operating within enemy airspace while trying to avoid detection by enemy radar and SAM batteries. Some, like the Tomahawk cruise missile can fly low to the ground where it is difficult for radar to detect aircraft because of ground clutter and curve of the earth. In popular parlance, this is known as “flying under the radar.”

    The USAF also has decoy drones like the MALD that are capable of pretending to be a cruise missile, or just about any other aircraft, by mimicking its electronic signature and flight profile.

    The basic concept of spoofing is the electronic version of impersonation. You could think of it as electronic identity theft. Cell phones can be spoofed, networks can be spoofed, ATMs can be spoofed. Certainly, the USAF and other air forces would try to fool enemy defenses into shooting at rubber ducks rather than at the real war birds. From Raytheon’s website:

    The MALD decoy is a flexible and modular system … an expendable air-launched flight vehicle that looks like a U.S. or allied aircraft to enemy integrated air defense systems, or IADS.

    The U.S. and its allies can confuse and deceive enemy IADS by sending a formation of MALD decoys into hostile airspace. Weighing less than 300 pounds, the weapon has a range of approximately 500 nautical miles (575 statute miles). After it is launched from its host aircraft, the MALD decoy flies a preprogrammed mission.
    […]
    The MALD-J decoy is the jammer variant of the basic decoy, and the first ever stand-in jammer to enter production. The unmanned MALD-J decoy navigates and operates much closer to the victim radar than conventional electronic warfare when jamming the electronics… And, it is able to loiter in the target area for an extended time period – plenty of time to complete the mission.

    Again, this is entirely my own speculation simply to articulate the concept, but a Tomahawk cruise missile flown in the immediate vicinity of Tehran international airport in the right pattern just as PS 572 was taking off could have alerted the SAM radar to the presence of a cruise missile, which in its turn might have ducked down out of radar coverage again and flown off, perhaps to self-destruct over the Caspian, leaving the doomed Ukrainian 737 flying right into the crosshairs of the SAM which had just been alerted to an approaching cruise missile.

    Certainly the timing and sequence of events would lead one to take notice of the apparent absence of any strong or overt United States military response in the wake of Iranian missile attacks on U.S. bases in Iraq, unless one is willing to consider that perhaps the Ukrainian 737 shoot-down was trickery at its very best, where you can get in the last blow by fooling the enemy into shooting himself in the foot while the whole world is watching.

    • Replies: @FB
  279. Parfois1 says:
    @Rurik

    Would you then, condemn them for their dishonestly, or does Iran always get a pass, because we’re all supposed to support their leader(s), no matter what ?

    Your “scenario” is very similar to what has happened. But you attribute the admission of wrongdoing to the fact that a contradictory proof has emerged, proving their guilt. That is a supposition on your part – that what motivated Iran’s confession was their inability to hide behind a lie. If your supposition is correct, that they deliberately lied to avoid culpability for their action, then it was reproachable. Can you prove your supposition as fact?

    You might argue that the video ” revelation” was the trigger for the confession. To do that, you would need to drive home the notion that there was a unified mind with perfect knowledge of everything that took place leading to the shootdown, not a large assembly of many actors with their own different roles, ideas, perspectives and intentions.

    What prompted me to disagree with your supposition is that we really don’t know much about what is going on behind the visible events of international conflicts and we should avoid reaching hasty judgements, particularly when we apply ethical absolutism principles in a very complex world riddled with institutionalized evil malice. In such world, we cannot expect that a person or country can survive if imposing on itself standards of morality derided by its enemies. Precedents tend to reveal a pattern (even a law in jurisprudence) and, compared with its current enemies, Iran – with a very long history of minding its own business (and don’t get fooled by the Greek version of “Darius aggression”) is the closest one can think of a country deserving respect and admiration.

    Not an angel, for sure; if it were one, it would not exist. But whatever misdeeds they do in their fight for survival, they deserve our moral support. After all Iran is the only bulwark against the vilest axis of evil in our times.

    Cheers

    • Agree: FB, Robjil
    • Replies: @geokat62
    , @ChuckOrloski
    , @Rurik
  280. Hey Rurik!

    Fyi, I dig how P.G.’s article title emphasized “… maybe there’s more to the story.”

    Am also sincerely pleased by your dedication to the timeless Giuseppe/Pinocchio fable 🤥and dedication to seeking truth in our planet’s Orwellian politics.

    Subsequently, & fyr, linked way down below (toward hell), is an article which illustrated TalmudTruth abiding NYC kids, fittingly costumed as ZUS soldiers and celebrating Purim. 😇. The faithful Chabad Lubavitch kids’s execeptional dedication to the W. Bush Neoconservatives pilot-PNC program lies were honored as the “Liberation” of Iraq soon began.👹

    Couple questions, er, Mahatma Rurik. 😉

    1. Are we truthseeking U.R. “Homelanders” subject to a lower-Higher calling?🇮🇱 2. Do you think ADL roundup “goon squads” would take a % of mercy on you for presently holding Iranian feet-to-🔥 for lying?

    Here in impeached Scranton, for example, I am called by The Chosen One, Trumpstein, to place my deference & allegiance to “The Truth” in accordance to his international Supremacist Jewry’s worldview? (Zigh) You#2, Rurik, and wherever you may be, you’re long ago impeached.

    And (argh), with rapid looming ADL anti-Semitism charges, reckon that me and ma’ fella’ uncooperative Americans are obligated to smashmouth Rick Wiles & Brother Nathanael’s Christian despised TruthThink?

    UnPontius Pilot Netanyahu, “We never lie, and what shit is dumb goyim Truth?” Great idea, 🤚Bibi, and Pence at next Purim costume party in The Big Fucking 🍎? Referenced article below.

    https://www.jta.org/2003/03/18/lifestyle/rabbis-purim-iraq-war-linked

    • Replies: @Rurik
  281. FB says: • Website
    @Sparkon

    You really should not comment about things of which you clearly know nothing…

    The ‘M’ in MALD stands for ‘miniature’…this is a very small flight vehicle, about eight feet long, six inches in diameter and weighing about 100 pounds [for the version now actually in service, not the vaporware on Raytheon’s website]…

    It’s powered by a tiny turbojet engine…it’s basically a very small cruise missile designed as a decoy to be fired upon by enemy air defenses…which deployment would be carried out as part of a SEAD operation [suppression of enemy air defenses]…

    It only has a flight range of of about 460 km, which is less than half the distance of Tehran to the Afghanistan border…the nearest airspace where US aircraft could operate…

    The jamming version…MALD-J…HAS NOT YET ENTERED SERVICE…

    In any case, this type of weapon would NOT be used in the comic book way you present here…

    How would they know when to launch it, in order to disrupt an airline flight which time of departure could not be predicted with the kind of pinpoint time certainty required…?…[The Ukraine 737 took off more than 60 minutes behind schedule…]

    Also, you seem to have a problem with reading comprehension…

    I did NOT say that a Tor missile system could not be jammed…in fact I went to great lengths to explain that ANY device that uses radio frequency CAN be jammed or otherwise interfered with…this includes by definition ANY surface to air missile system [SAM]…since any missile designed to home in on a MOVING target, must use some sort of radar to fix on the moving target…thereby making it vulnerable to radio interference…

    And spoofing works as I explained…by sending false signals about location, direction and speed…

    IT CANNOT CHANGE THE STRENGTH OF THE RETURN TO MAKE A CRUISE MISSILE SEEM ONE THOUSAND TIMES BIGGER [THE SIZE OF A 737]…

    As for a single Tomahawk missile fired to try to somehow dupe the Tor crew into taking out an airliner instead…that is just as silly, for the same reasons…T-hawks are NOT flying ‘under the radar’…they would be seen approaching the national airspace…

    And cruise missiles can’t loiter in an area…they have very small wings and aren’t capable of turning in tight circles…

    Your entire incoherent babble sounds like the ravings of a madman to someone who actually knows this subject…

    If I recall correctly, you are the same nutcase who in previous episodes has tried to fantasize about nukes in the basement of the WTC buildings…or some other such nonsense…

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  282. @JimDandy

    I could be retaliation, and a warning message to Iran. “If you attack us with missiles, we have a thousand ways to make you pay for it.” It also shows Iran that their own air defences are vulnerable to manipulation. Additionally, it humiliates Iran on the world stage.

    • Replies: @JimDandy
  283. FB says: • Website
    @Ilyana_Rozumova

    I haven’t watched the video, but the lights going on and off on the airplane could be its white strobe lights, which are designed to do that…

    Anyway, the wingtip navigation lights [red on the left, green on the right] are generally visible better from the forward aspect, so the airplane turning could bring them in or out of view…on the ground video is not really a reliable indicator of what is actually going on with the aircraft lights…

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  284. @Rurik

    My deepest respect to you SIR. (Or maybe Lady.}

    • LOL: FB
    • Replies: @Rurik
  285. Sparkon says:

    If I recall correctly, you are the same nutcase who in previous episodes has tried to fantasize about nukes in the basement of the WTC buildings

    No, you don’t recall correctly, at all.

    In fact, I’ve argued rather strenuously here against that idea on several occasions, most recently just today:

    https://www.unz.com/freed/nine-eleven-by-the-numbers/#comment-3667480

    So much for your reading comprehension and situational awareness.

  286. Iris says:

    Pro-Iranian Arab media “Al Mayadeen” reports how the NYT spins their breaking news story of Ukrainian Flight 752 being shot down by two missiles.

    In their edition of 14th Jan, the NYT produced the video said to have recorded the tragedy on the 8th Jan, but masked the date which was actually reading 18-10 (Oct)-2019.

    This may not have any real importance, but the NYT journalist then goes into surprisingly great pain trying to explain that this incorrect date would have been the date of the Persian calendar, which actually was 17-10 (Dey)-1398, and would therefore have been incorrect too.

    Someone asked a good q about the date on the security footage. I believe it’s Persian calendar. Date of crash is Jan 8th Gregorian, translates to 18th day of 10th month in Persian (2019-10-18). Security clock is likely out by a day (2019-10-17).
    — Malachy Browne (@malachybrowne) January 14, 2020

    • Replies: @Parfois1
  287. @FB

    Thank you! (It was Iris who did claim nukes in the basement.)

    • Replies: @Iris
  288. geokat62 says:
    @Parfois1

    (and don’t get fooled by the Greek version of “Darius aggression”)

    Care to elaborate?

  289. geokat62 says:
    @Trinity

    Maybe a large group of people should attend the next Trumpenstein KIG Rally and start drowning out the USA-USA-USA chants with ZSA-ZSA-ZSA…

    … or better still, they could drown out the chants with:

    JewSA—JewSA—JewSA!

    • Thanks: ChuckOrloski
    • LOL: Trinity, Rurik
  290. Iris says:

    Ukrainian Boeing crash: at least six F-35s reportedly spotted near Iranian borders

    The presence of US F-35 jets near Iranian borders, shortly after Tehran’s attacks on American bases in Iraq and shortly before the crash of the Ukrainian Boeing 737 , testifies to how tense the situation was at that time, says Sergei Lavrov in his yearly diplomatic address.

    “There are reports that after the attack [on US bases in Iraq], the Iranians expected another American strike. They did not know in what form, but there were at least six F-35 in flight in the airspace just over the Iranian borders. This information, in my opinion still needs to be double-checked. But I just want to emphasize that nervousness is always present in such situations, “said the diplomat.

    https://fr.sputniknews.com/international/202001171042918057-lavrov-les-progres-du-sommet-normandie-ne-doivent-pas-rester-uniquement-sur-le-papier/

  291. Iris says:
    @Ilyana_Rozumova

    It was Iris who did claim nukes in the basement

    To be precise, dear Ilyana, it was not me, but the rules of Physics and Thermodynamics which prove without a shadow of a doubt that the WTC was brought down by underground nuclear detonations.

    As for me, I won’t claim anything anymore as I have now understood that nobody (except Erebus) is interested in what really happened on 9/11. Best regards.

  292. Iris says:

    Pan-Arab news channel “Al Mayadeen” reports about this article by Dr Giraldi to their Arabic language readers, under the title:

    Did deliberate cyber-attacks result in the Ukrainian plane being brought down?”

    شويش مقصود تسبب بتحطم الطائرة الأوكرانية؟

    https://www.almayadeen.net/press/foreignpress/1374838/ضابط-سابق-في–سي-آي-إي—تشويش-مقصود-تسبب-بتحطم-الطائرة-الأو

  293. @Parfois1

    Hey Parfois1!

    My compliment for your intervention attempts with a “good guy,” Rurik. 👍!

    In Thursday’s NYT’s column, the Israeli left-inclined Zionist ethicist, Thomas L. Friedman, blasted Trump’s zionized ethical standard for designating good vs. evil ZUS military (Boots-on-the not yet Israel Ground) heroes.😲

    Irked, Friedman opined: “Trump also has no moral framework.” (Oops) Thomas L. forgets Trumpstein’s Likud Jew immoral framework.

    At any rate, Friedman became especially pissed and asked, “Guess who the Trumps had over to Mar-a-Lago during the Christmas 🎄 holidays?”
    A. = Neither the Giraldi nor Unz Family. Haha, 😲, (Zigh).

    Seriously now, Tom Friedman reported that the Trumpstein’s welcomed NAVY Seal Edward Gallagher and his wife.👸 Thomas L. complained about how Gallagher was tried in a ZUS military court on GWOT 🇮🇱war crimes.

    The Jewish Corporate Media’s go to ZionAmachian left-wing essayist, Thomas L. Friedman, spilled the Lawn Mowing beans 🇵🇸 and wrote: “A member of Edward Gallagher’s Seal team told investigators, “You could tell (Ed) was perfectly Ok with killing anybody who was moving.”

    Am sentimental, Parfois1, and I now consider the fate of the late-Patrick Tillman who sorrowfully no longer moves.

    Linked down below & fyr is a rare “True News” video 😳which displayed how Seal Gallagher, the hero who posed for a photographer, while he held a young but captive & dead ISIS fighter’s hairy-head, “and shared the deer-kill photo with others.”

    (Zigh) Merry Xmas to The 😈 From The Malpracticing Shabbos Goy Trumps!

    • Replies: @Desert Fox
    , @Parfois1
  294. Late-Rush says:

    God damn, but you guys are paranoid fools!

  295. When the first video of a missile hitting the flight turned up it might have been legitimate to question its provenance, and why it was filmed: its location was confirmed in daylight (and anyone who has looked at satellite view of the area will admit that it is not in real doubt), and the delay between the flash and the sound of the explosion allows the distance to be estimated (I did detailed sums on this myself, taking account of the altitude of the filming site, the track of the aircraft from Flightradar24 data – it was climbing at almost 3,000ft/min at its last report – and the temperature, which affects the speed of sound).

    But we have at least 3 videos of missiles. The second one was from a fixed CCTV camera that was monitoring a parking lot almost directly under the point of missile interception of the first. Several quite widely spaced vehicles in the parking lot have flashing hazard lights because their alarms had been set off. Then we see the bright flame of the missile arcing up into the sky and the flash from the interception explosion almost directly overhead. Then we have the 2 minute 3 second security CCTV video from near Bidkaneh that shows the entire event: the launch of the first missile (its track across the sky until the motor burns out, and the explosion some 6 seconds later, about 18 seconds after launch), a pause of some 12 seconds before the second missile is launched and the explosion some 24 seconds after the explosion of the first missile. It should be clear that the sonic boom and flare from the first missile will have alerted those under the flight path to something unusual, and would have been the cause of the car alarms being triggered as seen in the second video. We have our explanation for why the “first” video was filmed. If we take the flight data and estimate the flying time between the last transmission and the second missile explosion, we find that the first missile explosion would have occurred about a second after the last transmission. So we have fairly precise locations for the two missile strikes. Working from the flight characteristics of Tor/SA15 missiles, it is then possible to estimate the range each missile flew from launch to explosion, and where the range arcs cross gives a launch site. We also have bearings to the launch site from videos 2 and 3, once we locate where video 3 was filmed. So the location of the missile battery is identified. Also we note from the third video that the aircraft was not visibly on fire until some time after the second missile strike.

    Next we should consider Iranian sources. Start with Hassan Rouhani

    Armed Forces’ internal investigation has concluded that regrettably missiles fired due to human error caused the horrific crash of the Ukrainian plane & death of 176 innocent people.

    He admits missiles (plural), and puts the blame squarely on human error, following the internal investigation. There is no thought of the type of conspiracy theories raised by Giraldi’s article. Surely, if there was a grain of truth in his claims the Iranian regime would have pounced on it at the outset?

    Next, look at the whole statement made by the Commander of the Aerospace Force of the Islamic Revolution Guards Corps (IRGC) Amir-Ali Hajizadeh, in full translated transcript and subtitled video here:

    https://ifpnews.com/irgc-releases-details-of-accidental-downing-of-ukrainian-plane

    It is clear that the missile battery was newly deployed in response to rising tensions, and was not integrated into the wider air defence system. Indeed, he states that they were on a Level 3 alert, with fire at will instructions. He is quite clear that the incident happened under fog of war conditions, and he is not seeking to blame anyone else, or accuse anyone of having interfered with defences. The Iranians had satisfied themselves that it was an unfortunate mistake. It’s a wholly credible conclusion. About the only thing he fails to mention is that 2 missiles were fired (he was speaking before the third video had emerged). He produces a map of events that confirms the battery location. He explains that the radar picked up the target at a range of 19km, which given the rest of the information, places it as having just overflown Parand power station (surely a much more likely target than many for any US cruise missile or stealth bomber strike) and close to the Tehran-Saveh freeway. Checking with the flight data, that would have been about 16 seconds before the missile was fired. Also, note that it was very dark: the almost full moon had set at 04:42 local time.

    The Ukrainian investigators reported that they believe the pilots were killed instantly by missile shrapnel: they have presumably seen the bodies. That suggests that it was the first missile that killed them, and knocked out the transponder, which is below the cockpit. After the first missile the aircraft appears to have continued on its course, quite possibly because autopilot was engaged, with it having made the turn from runway alignment to departure heading. It was now an unidentifiable flying object, a fact that may have influenced the decision to fire the second missile.

    Since the black box is located in the cargo compartment, and it is also evident that some element of autopilot was operational until the last few seconds before the crash, when the plane lurches with changes of direction before entering a steep dive as shown in several videos taken from vehicles and hand held phones, there is some reasonable hope that it will have recorded events beyond the first missile strike, and via its internal inertial tracking, perhaps offer enough clues to what happened in the remainder of the flight.

  296. @Iris

    My Dear Iris!!!

    Please, please don’t target everybody assembled here on the incredible WTC tower explosions and evident use of non-jet fuel variant & devastating detonations?

    The issue, t.b.d., 🙏is exactly where were the tower’s extraordinary munition locations. “Basements”? Cannot exclude such posdibility of nukes hsving been there, “done that.”👹

    Thanks & my beaming respect.

    • Replies: @Iris
  297. @Iris

    My dear.
    You know I do love you very much so I really hate to have to tell you no.
    Building # 7 was taken down by controlled demolition.
    If you watch the video of destruction (not even carefully) you will see first destruction and crumbling at the base level of building . Than you see the building slowly almost intact descending, and than crumbling at base level of the building.
    If you watch the destruction of towers, you will see that destruction started at the top of the towers.
    (The floors of the towers were falling on each others. Ergo pankaking)
    If there would have been large explosion underground the pattern of destruction would be similar as in building #7.

  298. @ChuckOrloski

    Trump proves the old saying , a person is known by the company he keeps.

  299. Iris says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    The issue, t.b.d., is exactly where were the tower’s extraordinary munition locations. “Basements”?

    Hello Mr O.;
    Just like it was feasible and easily done to drill dozens of shafts into the bedrock, in which the Twin Towers’ structure was anchored, it was easy enough to drill one extra spare hole in provision for future controlled demolition; this is where the nuclear charges were detonated.

    Anyway, taking the problem from the correct, scientific angle would require replying to the following question: what was in the WTC basement that radiated heat equivalent to that of a 900 MVA nuclear reactor?

    Anybody who believes in an explanation other than nuclear should raise a patent as they would make billions in the heating industry. More realistically, they should seek psychiatric help for their delusions.

    I find the idea that 3000 American civilians were murdered with nuclear weapons, in their own country, under the supposed care of their government, by the foreign Zionist entity, absolutely revolting and heart-breaking. But I guess it is easier for me to be lucid because I am not American. May God bless you as a people, I feel for you and hate what is being done to you.

    • Thanks: ChuckOrloski
  300. JimDandy says:
    @Based Inquisitor

    If you attack us with missiles, we will slaughter 176 innocent third-party civilians and blame it on your ineptitude? Could be, I guess.

  301. Howdy Ms. I!

    Am impressed by the unknown number of noble 🌟Americans, assembled here, and who are determidly interested about what really brought down the Ukraine plane.

    What escapes me, Iris, is how perhaps merely a few of these same American-regular U.R. commenters could care less about the 9/11 passenger airplanes which did not take down the 3 WTC towers, hit Pentagon, & to my greater dismay, the freaking needless “Dancing Israelis” who were ritually compelled to document the inevitable. And with no fear whatsoever about getting pinched by ZUS police law dis-enforcement.

    9/11 was de-investigated only by zionized U.S. Justice & with an Israeli/Zelikow seal of approval.

    Am sorry for these hell bound bastards who have been riding herd on dumb goyim America since at minimum, WW1.

    My love💓 & thanks to you, Iris!

    • Thanks: Iris
  302. Okhotnik says:

    Occam’s Razor- the Persians screwed the pooch on this one.
    If they actually feared a response from their paltry revenge attacks on the bases in Iraq, then any remotely rational government would have locked down their airspace.
    But…given the national IQ of 84 and their proclivity toward consanguineous marriage (approaching 40%), “oops” is far and away the most logical reasoning for their downing the plane.

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  303. Parfois1 says:
    @Iris

    Great scoop Iris! We can always rely on you to come up with the most thrilling revelations.

    Cheers

  304. @Okhotnik

    Yo Okhotnik!

    Given your high zio-tested & approved IQ score, 😳reckon you’d delight in the purchase of a ZUS Presidential 2020 chess set, video ad linked below, which includes great Shabbos goy pawn-figures, W. Bush and Cheney!

    A sale incentive: Buy it now before Purim, ‘cuz The Supremacist Jew “rats” in the chess set remain as the U.S. Kings and Queens. Guaranteed dumb goyim satisfaction or you’ll get a Jewish quarterback!🏈 Free and unsanctioned Mnuchin shipping too.

  305. @ChuckOrloski

    Yo ChuckOrloski!

    I bought the TV 2020 chess set; is terrific as Jared Kushner is a Conversos Bishop, and seated upon a pale horse coming. 🤗

    • LOL: Parfois1
  306. Anon[127] • Disclaimer says:

    In spite of the tension and the escalation, the Iranian government did not shut down the country’s airspace. Civilian passenger flights were still departing and arriving in Tehran, almost certainly an error in judgment on the part of the airport authorities.

    That’s strange. Why didn’t they shut down the country’s airspace?

    The same mistake occurred for the MH17: ”Kiev ignored EU request to close E. Ukraine airspace days before MH17 crash

    https://www.rt.com/news/212299-ukraine-ignored-eu-mh17/

  307. @Sean

    I found it rather quick that Iranians agreed to being guilty. My impression was that it came very quickly after US/boeing insisted on being part of the investigation. They didn’t want Americans in Iran, that’s for sure.

    The transponder data, switched off or falsified, were digital and everything digital can be falsified. That is the risk for going digital: Every wall one man can build another man can tear down. I am baffled by Mr. Giraldi’s openness. Didn’t people from the Si_I_Ay need permission to admit their former employment, and have everything they say approved or live dangerously?

  308. @Colin Wright

    I’d also be happy to learn Trump out maneuvered the Bolshevi but I’m also suspicious that the Raytheon PR team is in full damage control mode. They need to reassure their prospective customers that the Patriot defense shield is not a scam…”Our system didn’t fail…we let the Iranians hit a major oil refinery and US military base…for strategic purposes.”

  309. Klaus Fejsa says: • Website
    @FritztheCat

    Hi, its me. My video is not up to date.
    There is a new one

    And there is another article

    https://logik-idee.com/2020/01/17/iran-flight-ps572-crash-was-a-pantsir-system-involved/

    But the sensation is still only all in one 21 MB picture (you can zoom and zoom and zoom…)

    The “smoking-gun-proof” for a false-flag combined with video-scam in the western mainstream.
    ATTENTION please, this is hot !
    It was only ONE missile from a MANPAD and it was launched from a totally different direction.

    The DIRECTION gives the “smoking-gun-proof” and shatters all…..

  310. Parfois1 says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    It is always a pleasure to read your colourful outpourings of anger and disgust at the international cabal as well as the sharp barbs at the in-house ziorats and similar vermin, although I must confess sometimes I have trouble deciphering your signals (my fault, a bit slow on the uptake) .

    It’s comforting to know one is not alone in our common struggle to bring understanding as well as awareness of the dangers we face if we don’t, by whatever means available, resist the forces of evil in solidarity with Iran and other countries on the Usrael’s gunsights.

    Here’s an exhortation (and a riddle) for our friends and companions in this struggle:

    “Man’s dearest possession is life, and since it is given to him to live but once, he must so live as to feel no torturing regrets for years without purpose; so live as not to be seared with the shame of a cowardly and trivial past; so live, that dying he can say: All my life and all my strength were given to the finest cause in the world – the liberation of mankind”. (JVD)

    Cheers

    • Thanks: Iris
    • Replies: @geokat62
  311. geokat62 says:
    @Parfois1

    Here’s an exhortation (and a riddle) for our friends and companions in this struggle:

    Great quote, Parfois1.

    Quick question: what do the letters JVD represent?

    When I looked up the quote, I found the originator of it was Nikolai Alexeevich Ostrovsky. So, one would expect to see the letters NAO at the end of the quote.

    Ironically, this is what Wiki listed as his occupation: Novelist, Chekist, Communist Party member.

    I wonder how many innocent souls this fine Chekist was responsible for dispatching to the underworld, notwithstanding his inspiring quotation?

    • Replies: @Parfois1
  312. @A123

    You seem to have access to inside information. Could you ask around and confirm that one of our Jewish boys with a manpad missile hit the Ukrainian passenger plane first, while his chums filmed, and then Iranian air defense fired another missile by mistake thinking something hostile appeared in the sky when the Ukrainian plane lost its transponder?

  313. @ChuckOrloski

    Where do you find these, Chuck!!


    I’m holding out for the Brutus-model Ginsu knife; must be rated for Backstabbing.
    “It dices, it slices, it even chops nuts.”

    • LOL: Assad al-islam
  314. @Klaus Fejsa

    False Flag: Flight 752 in Iran Was Shot Down by US Allies with a Stinger Missile, Not by an Iranian Missile
    Robert Lindsay blog
    [who is Robert Lindsay? I DON’T KNOW. Appropriate question is, Does the sequence make sense?]

    https://beyondhighbrow.com/2020/01/18/false-flag-flight-752-in-iran-was-shot-down-by-us-allies-with-a-stinger-missile-not-by-an-iranian-missile/

  315. Klaus Fejsa says: • Website
    @Klaus Fejsa

    Sorry, I was wrong in the geolocation.

    I changed now the content of my link to the picture with my false conclusions.
    But your system displays still the old Content of this my link, because the picture seems to be uploaded.
    My correct picture now starts on top with “Correction”

    So I now used a new link

    What remains is my argumentation about the Pantsir.

    Please erase my wrong picture with my false argumentation and therefor wrong accusations in my last post.

  316. Trinity says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    Where is George Soros and Sheldon Adelson? Where is Sir Rothschild? And where is our President of JEW-SA, Baby Nut&Yahoo? Trump, Obama, Reagan, Pelosi and all the other shabbos goys should be the pawns. One comment on the YouTube video said this piece of crap was made in China.

    (((They))) are really laughing now. This chess set is a total mockery of what the former United States has a become. One poster said that after the 2020 election these pieces of crap would be available at The Dollar Store. You know what, I think that poster is right.

  317. Trinity strongly made move,🤗 and determined:
    “This chess set is a total mockery of what the former United States has become. One poster said that after the 2020 election these pieces of crap would be available at The Dollar Store. You know what, I think that poster is right.”

    l reckon that a Dollar Store sale, marked down to $1.00/unit 800 🇮🇱 for each mocking 2020 Presidential chess set, shall go big among targeted Amerikan dumb goyim consumers who have potential uses for toy Zion soldiers & empty eggheads as affordable children Easter bunny gifts.

    Hoppity hop and Trump White House’s hands-off pet, Barron The Purple Dinosaur’s, Purim Boppity Bop?😳

    P.S.: Added chess set value; Patriotic U.S.A.-colored chessboard’s multi-use utility as either cocaine or wrist cutting surfaces.

    • LOL: Trinity
    • Replies: @Trinity
  318. @Frederick V. Reed

    Don’t be silly. Conspiracies don’t exist, especially in freedom loving democracies. What are you doing here anyway? Shouldn’t you be reading the New York Times or the New Yorker where you will learn the truth? Stick to your own kind.

  319. anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @Frederick V. Reed

    “ .. conspiracy theory.”

    Your 65th comment on TUR, yet none under your own columns, where you also like to call names (“Truther,” etc.) and then slink off.

    Seriously, Mr. Reed, what the hell?

  320. Trinity says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    Maybe someone could come up with a Jew World Order aka “Globalist” aka “The Deep State” vs. Nationalist chess set. The JWO and/or “Globalist” side would have the usual suspects from past and present like Jacob Schiff, Leon Trotsky and Vladimir Lenin ( only part Jew, at least that is what we are told), Henry Kissinger,Soros, the Rothschild clan as the power pieces like the rooks, kings, queens, bishops, etc. I guess you could put some rabbis in there for the bishop pieces. The pawns would have to be the super duper shabbos goys of past and present like Churchill, FDR, LBJ, Clintons, Trump, Lindsey Graham etc.

    No doubt that the “Nationalist” side would have to have the ultimate manufactured boogey man, Hitler, as the king with lesser “monsters” like Putin, Hussein, Gaddifi, David Duke as possible “power pieces.” The pawns could be little KKK figures or little “Nazi” soldiers. lmao.

  321. Haha, (Zigh). Looks like the Rothschild Way street smart-smart & ZUS current President Trumpstein is wisely dissing the start of his zionized & mass entertainment, Senate impeachment trial.🙃 Please refer to the MSNBC report, linked below?

    https://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/trump-may-attend-davos-as-impeachment-gets-underway-76941893800

    Instead, he goes to Davos🤗 in order to cosy up to fellow global elites who share his skewed Supremacist Jew One World vision.
    And who the hell really knows the names of the empowered culprits who dare risk being seen with the Populist (🤥) Trumpstein?

    Haha. Would get real Zio nuts if James Biden gets caught breaking bread 💰 with Donald J. while luxuriating at the Atlanticist Integrationists & special guest watering hole, the Russia House? 😳

  322. Excellent article, well researched and compelling. It goes without saying that the usual pack of barking dogs – the Zio lobby’s little shills and hasbarats – will hound you no matter what you write on behalf of truth and justice.

    This is what they get paid for, isn’t it? But as Carl Schmitt (1888-1985) wrote: “The truth may go under at times, but it doesn’t drown.” (Die Wahrheit geht manchmal unter, aber sie ertrinkt nicht).

  323. Parfois1 says:
    @geokat62

    Quick question: what do the letters JVD represent?

    That is the riddle, and the idea is to take the mickey out of… whoever! Anyway, full marks for your ‘noticing’.

    By the way, forgot to explain “don’t be fooled by Greeks crying ‘Darius aggression’ ” . Athens and other city states helped/promoted the Ionian rebellion and Darius retaliated.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  324. JT says: • Website
    @FB

    I’m no expert in this field, but your ability to point out this or that flaw in an argument doesn’t convince me you are either.

    You link to a Tor video picking up a quadrone, without distinguishing model number. The Scott article distinguishes 29 Tor-M1, and M2E, with Tor-M1 being compromised.

    You seem unaware of Suter and its abilities, nor of a proven track record of Israeli spoofing of Syrian radar (Gasparre).

    You are no repository of secret military knowledge.

    although this would involve extremely specialized equipment…I would say there is really zero chance of that…

    we have to take your word for it.

    Don’t count on mine. Including for the various ways radar systems pick up vs. represent the size, speed, direction of potential targets, and the degree to which all of this is not immune to manipulation.

    Last I checked, Tehran is less than 100 km off coast of Caspian. How well does it control the airspace there, and the waters? There is a place called Sitalchay. Look it up. AZ SOM missile history suggests some interesting relationships. Mary-2 airfield can’t be ruled out either.

    If Raptors and F22 are worth their money, so is RQ-180, RQ-170, and a slew of other stealths. (Israel’s IAI Harop proved capable of taking out much more sophisticated Pantsir systems.) Half of which have been regularly criss-crossing Iran for at least 24 months.

    Oh, and even gyrostabilized navsystems require pre-launch programmed alignment, and there are at least four other major guidance systems we can go into.

    Frankly, the motive, opportunity, and means, reasonably suggestcutting edge EW, or simpler cyberwar playing some role. More telling, was Trump’s refusal to respond. Very uncharacteristic. Very calculated.

    bringing up 9/11 is an association fallacy. You know better than Engineers for 9/11 truth why Building 7s collapsed, or why the recent (relatively) revelation of “Dancing Israelis,” is irrelevant to the 9/11 story?

    All this being said, the Iranian regime is outdated, and may it soon disappear off the face of the earth. It is responsible for shoot-down either way, since it failed to shut-down air-space. It is responsible for stifling the creative genius of the Persian people.

    If the shoot-down was a sophisticated spoof, it remains ethnically acceptable, since Iran is the one who pulled the trigger.

    • Replies: @ploni almoni
  325. geokat62 says:
    @Parfois1

    Athens and other city states helped/promoted the Ionian rebellion and Darius retaliated.

    Ionian rebellion? What on earth could they have been rebelling against?

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
    , @Daniel Rich
  326. Hey geokat!

    Linked below, I trust you have already watched Brother Nathanael’s latest & perhaps greatest video to date, “Whose war is it?”

    OMG! Brother Nathanael launched a transcontinental Ground-Based-Missive which shook my Scranton pad.

    Reckon Trumpstein would love “doing” B.N
    now, 💀and afterward, make the claim that “Real Jew News” was a terrorist organization, which provoked attacks at Adelson’s casinos & gave ideological comfort to General Soleimani. 💀

    WOW. While listening to my zionized “Homeland” Commander in Chief’s tongue hiss (on the Brother’s video), the sound reverberated like a stalking snake whose prepared and anxious for “service” in The Blue &,White Horror House’s Waiting Room of Killer Reptiles.

    “Well, you know there’s lots of killers in the world,” right, shiksa? 🖤

    https://www.bitchute.com/video/0V2sBJjepb5r/

    • Replies: @geokat62
    , @anonymous
  327. @geokat62

    Will try & help Parfois1 here, geo.

    Ionians rebelled against the Zionion protons.

    • LOL: geokat62
    • Replies: @Parfois1
  328. geokat62 says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    Linked below, I trust you have already watched Brother Nathanael’s latest & perhaps greatest video to date, “Whose war is it?”

    I hadn’t, Chuck. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.

    Brother Nathanael is calling out Trumpstein for doing the bidding of his Jewish Supremacist masters.

    I especially enjoyed his concluding paragraphs to his off the cuff remarks:

    Look, we’ve got a problem.

    Trump’s latest actions are just a symptom of the problem.

    It’s a ‘Jewish problem.’

    All the civil, financial, educational, political, and federal positions held by Jews are leading our country into destruction.

    Make America Sane Again is my motto.

    Help me do it!

    The full transcript to Whose War Is It Anyways?

    [MORE]

    General Trump’s footprints now stretch from DC all the way to the minarets of Tehran.
    And as a business man he’s now CEO of Murder Inc.
    Lots of killers out there you know. [Clip]

    We believe you, yet you’re committing the very same mistakes which makes you a killer too.
    First you assassinated—to please the Jewish Lobby—General Soleimani, a senior state official of Iran.
    Then you put America on a war footing despite your promise. [Clip]

    And an endless comedy of terrors. [Clip]

    He means Trump won’t cut and run every time Sheldon Adelson threatens to cut off his campaign money.
    Targeted assassinations are the Israeli thing to do.
    But this time Netanyahu assigned Adelson AND Kushner to get Trump to pull the trigger.
    Not secretly, like the Israelis do, but brazenly, giving the Jewish Lobby a larger stake in America’s perpetual mistakes.
    The Jewish Lobbies you see—and there are hundreds of them—infix themselves in power positions as Israel’s ‘Policy Police.’
    For instance, the “Foundation For The Defense Of Democracies”—with its head Mark Dubowitz and sponsors Paul Singer and Bernard Marcus—plant its agents in high places to set up a hit.
    FDD’s Richard Goldberg, in this case, had embedded himself in the White House National Security Council staff in an arrangement made with John Bolton.
    His expertise, that is, his ‘craft’ in agitating hate toward Iran, was to navigate, it could be, Trump into assassinating Soleimani.
    All with the aim to put Trump on a war footing in the Middle East.
    Pleasing the Jews is the reason we’re in the region.
    Like Trump says, “We’ve killed a lot of people.”
    Are we now killing people who just might fight back?
    And with Pompeo’s “Deterrence Strategy”—”deterrence” inclusive of assassinating Russian and Chinese generals, or any high official the Jews don’t like—World War 3 will be just an asinine mistake away.
    This time it will be killing top officials of two great powers, China and Russia, able to inflict painful tit-for-tat retaliations and some very convincing “deterrences” of their own.
–
+BN off the cuff
    You know, With all Trump’s talk of pulling out of the Middle East and ending all the endless wars, he held a fundraiser to a bunch of deep pocketed Jews at Mar Largo last Friday night.
    While bragging how he took out Soleimani, I mean murdered him in an “Israeli-style” targeted assignation OPENLY, he promised the warmongers, mostly Jews, that he will increase the military budget by another 2.5 trillion.
    Yeah, he said it in his bravado rant and all the Jewish donors were rejoicing with glee.
    Then the blood-thirsty Jews got from Trump a blow by blow account of how he took out Soleimani and the Iraqi commander Muhandis and his entire entourage.
    It’s a basketful of deplorable arrogance. [Clip]

    And the deep pocketed Jews ate it all up and brought out their checkbooks.
    Look, we’ve got a problem.
    Trump’s latest actions are just a symptom of the problem.
    It’s a ‘Jewish problem.’
    All the civil, financial, educational, political, and federal positions held by Jews are leading our country into destruction.
    Make America Sane Again is my motto.
    Help me do it!

    http://www.realjewnews.com/?p=1419

  329. Okhotnik says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    Hahaha….I have no affinity for Jews, especially American Jews, but your paranoia expressed by seeing one under every rock and hiding behind every bush is nothing short of laughable.
    Yes they own and operate way too many businesses and corporations that have had a major impact in destroying the moral fiber and virtues that made America great and yes their dominance in the media, education, politics and the legal system is beyond disturbing. That alone is enough to cause massive consternation; there is no need to pursue tin hat fabrications.

    • Replies: @ploni almoni
  330. anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    How disgusting. Mr. Trump’s recorded speech available via the bitchute link is, given the days he had to prepare for it, worse than Mrs. Clinton’s spontaneous cackling over the death of Libya’s Mr. Gaddafi. No decent person can listen to it and not think less of the President.

    What will it take for Americans to quit rationalizing “lesser of two evils” political support for these Washington warmongers?

    Voting for any of them gets us nothing but more of the same.

    • Replies: @ploni almoni
  331. anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rurik

    Please tell me what you think after listening to the recording of Mr. Trump’s speech last Friday. See #334.

    Thank you.

    • Replies: @Assad al-islam
    , @Rurik
  332. @JT

    Sure, whatever is good for the Jews is ethically acceptable. Well said. Mazeltov.

  333. @anonymous

    How you say, you have to fight fire with fire?

  334. geokat62 says:

    Folks, tomorrow could be Charlottesville X 10!

    I’m referring to the mass 2nd amendment rally scheduled to take place tomorrow in Richmond, Virginia.

    A good backgrounder is this Red Ice interview, PRO 2ND AMENDMENT PROTEST IN RICHMOND, VA: PROCEED WITH CAUTION – MATTHEW BRACKEN:




    Description:

    Henrik is joined by former navy SEAL Matt Bracken to discuss the upcoming Pro 2nd Amendment Protest in Richmond, Virginia. Likelihood is that Intelligence services will hijack the event just like they did during the Charlottesville protest in 2017…

    In the interview, Henrik Palmgren discusses the content of the article written by Matt Bracken, RICHMOND: THE MOTHER OF ALL BUFFALO JUMPS:

    Here’s the introductory paragraph:

    The more I ponder the mass demonstration being promoted by the Virginia Citizens Defense League for the annual Lobby Day at the Richmond Capitol, the more it looks like a disaster in the making. I wish it were otherwise, but I see many times more downside risk than possible upside benefit.

    https://www.theburningplatform.com/2020/01/08/richmond-the-mother-of-all-buffalo-jumps/

    I’ll leave you with a couple of quotes by Matt Bracken from the Red Ice interview:

    It’s a battle b/w Globalists and Nationalists…

    This is a necessary step. Before you can have Lexington and Concord, you have to have the Boston massacre.

  335. Sparkon says:
    @FB

    FB wrote:

    You really should not comment about things of which you clearly know nothing…

    […]

    And cruise missiles can’t loiter in an area…they have very small wings and aren’t capable of turning in tight circles…

    Your entire incoherent babble sounds like the ravings of a madman to someone who actually knows this subject…

    Just for the record, long ago I was in the USAF for two hitches where I worked with signals intelligence, and wrote reports about it on a daily basis, sometimes many reports.

    What are your credentials FB?

    Now you’ve claimed that a cruise missile can’t loiter, but this is what Wikipedia says about the Tomahawk:

    Tomahawk Block IV introduced in 2006 adds the strike controller which can change the missile in flight to one of 15 preprogrammed alternate targets or redirect it to a new target. This targeting flexibility includes the capability to loiter over the battlefield awaiting a more critical target. The missile can also transmit battle damage indication imagery and missile health and status messages via the two-way satellite data link

    (my bolds)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomahawk_(missile)

    So clearly FB, what you think you know is wrong.

    It ain’t what you don’t know that hurts you,
    It’s what you know that just ain’t so.

    — Anon.

    • Replies: @ploni almoni
  336. Parfois1 says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    Ionians rebelled against the Zionion protons.

    Not far off the mark Chuck – the (dia)tribe was just down the road plotting something or another under the guidance of the Rabbit-in-Chief at the time (about 500BC), probably a regime change operation.

    Thanks for covering my flank – geokat was attempting a sneaky attack on my weak spot and forcing me to surrender by admitting the Persians were the hegemon du jour. How could that be? They were not the “Chosen”.

  337. @anonymous

    Please tell me what you think after listening to the recording of Mr. Trump’s speech last Friday. See #334.

    Mr. Rurik asked me some questions about Shia Islam, which I answered to him in good faith. Then he came after me with a vengeance, and at that time a good Shia Muslim “MEexpert” cautioned him that he was the one who asked the questions, and they were answered in good faith.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  338. @Sparkon

    Wikepedia also says: Gas Chambers: The Höfle Telegram, a decoded telegram to Berlin from the deputy commander of Aktion Reinhard, Hermann Höfle, 15 January 1943, listing the number of arrivals in Aktion Reinhard extermination camps. In this document, the 1942 total for Treblinka of 71355 is considered to be a transcription error for 713,555, which would yield a total of 1,274,166, matching the total in the telegram.

    After undressing, the newly arrived Jews were beaten with whips to drive them towards the gas chambers; hesitant men were treated particularly brutally. Rudolf Höss, the commandant at Auschwitz, contrasted the practice at Treblinka of deceiving the victims about the showers with his own camp’s practice of telling them they had to go through a “delousing” process. According to the postwar testimony of some SS officers, men were always gassed first, while women and children waited outside the gas chambers for their turn. During this time, the women and children could hear the sounds of suffering from inside the chambers, and they became aware of what awaited them, which caused panic, distress, and even involuntary defecation.

    Many survivors of the Treblinka camp testified that an officer known as ‘Ivan the Terrible’ was responsible for operating the gas chambers in 1942 and 1943. While Jews were awaiting their fate outside the gas chambers, Ivan the Terrible allegedly tortured, beaten, and killed many of them. Survivors witnessed Ivan beat heads open with a pipe, slice people’s flesh with a sword or a bayonet, cut off noses and ears, and gouge out eyes. One survivor testified that Ivan killed an infant by bashing it against a wall; and another claimed that he raped a young girl before cutting her abdomen open and letting her bleed to death.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
    , @Trinity
  339. @Okhotnik

    I take it you have not looked in a mirror lately?

  340. Sparkon says:
    @ploni almoni

    So what? I’m discussing cruise missiles, not what happened in WWII. Try to stick to the point, or is that too much for you?

    Most things in Wikipedia are accurate, and attacking the source is always a logical fallacy, but nice job trying to muddy the waters.

    In any event, one can easily check the footnotes to the Wikipedia article on the Tomahawk, and find the source is this press release from Raytheon, the Tomahawk’s lead manufacturer, so I’ve already covered my tail, and I’m way ahead of you, snail.

    Navy Posts Successful Test of Raytheon’s Block IV Tomahawk Cruise Missile

    Dec 14, 2006, 00:00 ET from Raytheon Company

    TUCSON, Ariz., Dec. 14, 2006 /PRNewswire/ — A U.S. Navy Tomahawk Block IV cruise missile built by Raytheon Company (NYSE: RTN) was successfully launched Dec. 6 from USS Milius (DDG-69), an Arleigh Burke class destroyer, on the Naval Air Warfare Center Weapons Division Sea Test Range off the coast of Southern California.

    After launch from the vertical launch system, the Tomahawk, equipped with an inert warhead, completed the launch sequence and transitioned to cruise flight. It flew a fully guided 869-mile course using global positioning satellite and digital scene matching area correlator navigation to a target site on the Naval Air Systems Command land range at China Lake, Calif.
    […]
    The new capabilities that Block IV Tomahawk brings to the Navy’s sea strike capability are derived from the missile’s two-way satellite data link that enables the missile to respond to changing battlefield conditions.

    The strike controller can “flex” the missile in flight to preprogrammed alternate targets or redirect it to a new target. This targeting flexibility includes the capability to loiter over the battlefield awaiting a more critical target.

    The missile can also transmit battle damage indication imagery and missile health and status messages via the satellite data link. Firing platforms, for the first time, will have the capability to plan and execute GPS-only missions. Block IV also has an improved anti-jam GPS receiver for enhanced mission performance.

    Raytheon Company, with 2005 sales of $21.9 billion, is an industry leader in defense and government electronics, space, information technology, technical services, and business and special mission aircraft. With headquarters in Waltham, Mass., Raytheon employs 80,000 people worldwide.

    Contact:
    Alan D. Fischer
    520.794.1211

    SOURCE Raytheon Company

    (Ratheon’s press release, my bolds and edits for typographic perfection, and brevity)

    https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/navy-posts-successful-test-of-raytheons-block-iv-tomahawk-cruise-missile-56249122.html

    • Replies: @ploni almoni
  341. Rurik says:
    @Parfois1

    Hello Parfois,

    Your “scenario” is very similar to what has happened. But you attribute the admission of wrongdoing to the fact that a contradictory proof has emerged, proving their guilt.

    For the record, the ‘wrongdoing’ I attribute to Iran, was their refusal to admit that Iran shot the plane down.

    Hasn’t the fact that Iran has now, (after foreign proof was proffered), admitted that they did, in fact, shoot the plane down, (after days of denials), reason to question their veracity?

    Unless you think that Iran had no way of knowing, and that all their investigative capabilities led them to believe (days after the shoot-down) that the jet suffered some mechanical problems. – A theory that I personally doubt.

    That is a supposition on your part – that what motivated Iran’s confession was their inability to hide behind a lie. If your supposition is correct, that they deliberately lied to avoid culpability for their action, then it was reproachable. Can you prove your supposition as fact?

    It’s simple really. Is there any viable argument out there, that a reasonable person could accept, for believing that Iran had no way of knowing that its military shot the plane down.

    IOW, is it reasonable to accept, that Iran’s military and its government, are not on the same page, and that there are rogue elements in the military, (not to mention staggering levels of incompetence), which the leaders of Iran are incapable of controlling? Or expecting a straight answer from?

    Are you comfortable with an Iran, whose military shoots down a civilian passenger jet
    (either by mistake or otherwise), and which acts outside of the parameters of its leaders in the Iranian government? And that when such an act takes place, that it would be too much to expect those military leaders to own up to their mistakes, within several days of the shoot-down?

    IOW it was either the Iranian government, who lied, or the military.

    Unless you believe that there was just no way of knowing what had happened, days afterwards. – A theory I personally find dubious.

    … a unified mind with perfect knowledge of everything that took place leading to the shootdown, not a large assembly of many actors with their own different roles, ideas, perspectives and intentions.

    That is quite the extremist view, Parfois. That either it’s all controlled by a single, omniscient entity, / or it’s utter and complete anarchy. How about something in between. When a passenger jet is shot out of the sky, by a modern nation’s military, that it’s likely that some people in the higher-ups in its military, knew about it, either as it happened, or immediately afterwards.

    And that in Iran’s case, it seems unlikely that those higher-ups in the military, would be willing to go rogue, and try a cover up. Lying to their government superiors about what had happened.

    But nevertheless, I have always accepted the possible (if improbable) explanation for the government’s insistence for days, that they didn’t shot it down, (because they were lied to by their military leaders).

    But if that’s the case, then is Iran ready for nukes? If this is the level of their military / civilian command structure?

    ‘Ok, so it seems our military blasted a passenger jet out of the sky, a few moments out from our capital’s airport, but you can’t expect us to be accountable for such things! How could we have known?! Rogue elements are operating within our military, after all. We can’t be expected to know what happened, unless the West’s spy satellites are brought to bear, to point it out to us.’

    Then: ‘OK, fine. We did it. But we never tried to misrepresent what happened!’

    Really?

    particularly when we apply ethical absolutism principles in a very complex world riddled with institutionalized evil malice.

    Well, if you’ve ever read my comments, Parfois, you’d know that I routinely apply ‘ethical absolutism principles’ (war crimes are wrong, murder and assassination are wrong, lying about things and trying to slaughter untold innocents on behalf of an ((evil regime)), is wrong, etc…), almost on a weekly basis. It’s just that usually I’m condemning the war crimes and atrocities, (frequently the atrocities against the truth) that my own government and media commit daily. It’s even become a rather tiresome routine, because my government and media commit so many crimes and atrocities against the truth, that one gets almost inured to it all.

    But, just because my government and media, are rotten and duplicitous and murderous, does not mean their enemies get a pass. It isn’t always a case of ‘the enemy of my enemy = is always righteous and virtuous and good’. (or something like that ‘ ).

    No, when otherwise good people do wrong, I will call them out. No matter who they are.

    Consider; Ron Paul is a hero of mine. I was a zealous supporter of his presidential campaigns, and remain a loyal fan. I was glad when his son Rand, was elected to the Senate. But it was on one of Ron Paul’s articles to Unz (if I’m not mistaken), that I excoriated his son Rand, applying “ethical absolutism principles”, because Rand had betrayed those principles, when he lied about Iran.

    Iran has said it will not pursue nuclear weapons technology, because they consider it against the principles and teaching of Islam. (not sure we can always believe what Iran says anymore, following this incident), but I took them at their word, and figured they were telling the truth.

    But then I read where Rand Paul had claimed, (something to the effect) that Iran had ‘reversed its nuclear intentions, because of threats from the U.S., which I’m convinced was a lie.

    Someone like Rand Paul would have known, what Iran’s stated position was vis-a-vis nuclear weapons. And that it wasn’t because of zio-threats, that Iran had cravenly appeased, but rather principled positions on nuclear weapons based on the teachings of Islam.

    So I condemned Rand’s lies, because of principles of verity that I consider of great consequence.

    If you’re false, then you’re rotten. And if you’re rotten, no one possibly can or should have any respect for you, or especially anything you say. Man, or regime.

    In such world, we cannot expect that a person or country can survive if imposing on itself standards of morality derided by its enemies

    Well, as I said, I ‘impose’ certain standards on all the people I deal with, all my friends and all my family and anyone with whom I have any respect for.

    If they turn out to be false and given to lies, (then I won’t respond in kind), but rather will forgo any future possible dealings. And, perhaps, let them know what I think of their treachery and guile.

    Iran – with a very long history of minding its own business … … is the closest one can think of a country deserving respect and admiration.

    I have always felt so. And, as I’ve said, with pushing two million words on this forum, over many years, have always said so.

    Just as with Rand Paul, it is when I’ve held men or nations in high esteem, that my disappointment, (and pen) are sometimes most scathing, when I sense deception, and betrayal.

    Not an angel, for sure; if it were one, it would not exist. But whatever misdeeds they do in their fight for survival, they deserve our moral support. After all Iran is the only bulwark against the vilest axis of evil in our times.

    They do deserve our moral and otherwise support, but only insofar as they too are not given to treachery and duplicity.

    I don’t follow men, I follow principles. That is the distinction between men and the jungle. Men honor laws and principles that guide our dealings with each other. Jungle animals have no honor, and respect only raw power. I refuse to be reduced to compromising on principles, without which, we’re little more than animals.

    If Iran had lied to the ZUSA, then that would be understandable, because the ZUSA is a den of snakes. But they didn’t just lie to the snake, they also lied to their own people. I consider that reprehensible, to say the least.

    We’re on the same page, Parfios. We both (all people of good will), want an end to the madness, and horrors and Eternal Wars for Israel. We just have different views on how to get there.

    I don’t think descending to their level is the way. Even if Iran tried, they’ll never in a million years ever be able to respond in kind to the fiend. The fiend has been honing duplicity and genocidal treachery for thousands of years. Trying to beat them at their own game, will only alienate your people, who, unlike the zio-thugs, actually do honor the truth.

    Sticking to the truth, even when it’s politically inconvenient, is the way Ron Paul has done it for his entire career. So it can be done, and you can even come out on the other end, with your soul intact.

    Hopefully his son has learned that, and with any luck, Iran’s leadership. We’re going to be counting on both, in the years and decades to come, if our planet is going to find any relief from madness taking us all into the abyss.

    Cheers.

  342. @Rurik

    Hi Rurik!

    Below is your “hero,” Rand Paul,” performing his obligatory homage at the Western Wall “abyss.”

    Cheers, (Zigh).

  343. Trinity says:
    @ploni almoni

    Yeah and for decades we all believed the lie that Germans made soap and lampshades out of Jewish fat and skin. Both have been PROVEN to be nothing but CRAZY AND FAR FETCHED WAR TIME PROPAGANDA. The SOAP LIE was even pushed in the best selling, “The Rise And Fall Of The Third Reich.” William Shirer’s work was a huge bestseller that was read by countless serious historians and history buffs, so people astonishingly believed these ridiculous claims of making bars of soap out of human fat and lampshades out of human skin. Even in WWI, the (((American media))) were publishing reports of German soldiers throwing babies into the air and spearing them with their bayonets. Only a sick and twisted mind of a sick and twisted person would even think about something so horrific and then try to pin their own sickness on someone else. Seeing as how the so-called, “holocaust” has been made by the usual suspects and their lackeys to be a taboo subject that must be believed and can’t even be debated, even punishable by imprisonment if you don’t believe the Jewish narrative in some countries, there are still people today who believe in the lampshade and bars of soap propaganda. During the time when Shirer’s bestseller was published the lampshade and soap bars were probably being touted as FACT and anyone who disputed it was labeled “Nazis,” “kooks”, “spawns of Satan,” blah, blah, blah… Even today despite the “official” number being lowered in Auschwitz camp from 4 million to 1.2 million, we are still constantly told that “6-million Jews perished in the “holocaust.” Not sure if the number has been lowered in the other camps, but now it has been “officially” lowered by nearly 3 million so why do we still keep reading and hearing about “6 million?” I was told growing up that if someone lies about one thing that they will lie about everything.

    “But it was real in my mind.” hahahaha.

  344. Rurik says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    1. Are we truthseeking U.R. “Homelanders” subject to a lower-Higher calling? 2. Do you think ADL roundup “goon squads” would take a % of mercy on you for presently holding Iranian feet-to- for lying?

    Is that what you think I’m doing Chuck?

    Trying to appease the ADL?

    Here in impeached Scranton, for example, I am called by The Chosen One, Trumpstein, to place my deference & allegiance to “The Truth” in accordance to his international Supremacist Jewry’s worldview? (Zigh) You#2, Rurik, and wherever you may be, you’re long ago impeached.

    Brother Chuck, you’re comments are increasingly incoherent.

    At 11:00 minutes in, please check out this video, recently posted by Priss on another thread.

    This man does not come across as a rabid Bibi-lover/appeaser. And yet says the anger of the Iranian people at having been “lied to” is “legitimate, overt anger”.

    Then Chuck, at just after 16:00 to 17:20, he shows his true colors! He’s a Bibi-worshiper and Trump-lover!!!!

    How dare he not pile on and call Trump the anti-Christ that he is!!!!

    Here’s a clue: Of course Trump is a zio-whore. They ALL are!

    Haven’t you noticed that?

    All we can hope for, is that Trump is somewhat less of a war-mongering whore of Zion, than he otherwise would be, were it not for the American people holding his feet to the fire, and demanding NO WAR WITH IRAN.

    Because the Jewish spremacits on both sides of the political isle are demanding we spend every last drop of American blood and treasure in dying for the Eternal Wars for Zion. As we’ve been doing for over a hundred years.

    And you sometimes sound like you expect Trump to end that cycle, in a four year term. In a way, I suppose you think more of Trump than most of us ever did.

    a “good guy,” Rurik. !

    In quotes?

    Very sorry to see you feel that way Chuck.

    But you’re pathological (and obvious) hatred for Trump personally, has colored your outlook, IMHO.

    Mark Green recently wrote something insightful about America, and how we’ve all been indoctrinated to see the world in a black vs. white, cartoon-like expression of pure good vs. pure evil.

    But life is more nuanced than that, and I appreciated the moderator at that forum, pointing out that all of the evil of the world didn’t begin on the day Trump was elected potus. He’s just been a terrible disappointment, but not as bad as the rest of them.

    (And no, Chuck. That is not an endorsement of Trump. But something tells me that anyone who’s (clearly) suffering from Trump Derangement Syndrome, considers anything but rabid denunciations of Trump- as a Trump lover. And I don’t buy that paradigm.)

    • Agree: Ilyana_Rozumova
    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  345. @Rurik

    You confuse the absolute and the relative, and the political and the divine. You can’t lie about the absolute and you can’t lie to God. The rest is negotiable. We have to lie all the time, anyway. To do otherwise would be be absurd and children’s fairy tales. It is a problem that autistics encounter all the time.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  346. Rurik says:
    @Ilyana_Rozumova

    (Or maybe Lady.}

    You say that like it’s a bad thing.

  347. @Sparkon

    It is just a game, Sparkon, don’t take it seriously. Wikipedia was just a red herring and Raytheon, an industry leader, is a font of truth, just like the Talmud.

  348. Rurik says:
    @anonymous

    Please tell me what you think after listening to the recording of Mr. Trump’s speech last Friday. See #334.

    I’ve been a fan of Brother Nathanial for many, many years. Long before I showed up here.

    What did he say that contradicts one thing I’ve ever said?

    I’ve said all along, that Trump is a whore of Zion. Duh.

    That is not in question. I’ll tell you what I think is going on..

    A yes, sort of child-like ‘our team good, their team evil’, kind of thing. When we look at the world in a black and white way, without considering the nuances:

    Trump is a zio-whore, but less murderous than Bush or Obama were.

    Iran is a good guy, but that doesn’t mean that can’t make disastrous mistakes.

    But in the cartoon world of ‘we’re good, and they’re evil!, such nuanced versions of reality are too complicated for some people, it seems. Iran must NEVER be criticized, because they’re part of the ‘good guy’ team, and Trump must be considered the worst evil man who’s ever sold out his nation to Zion, for a few shekels, because he’s the ‘orange clown’, and has divided the country!’, blah, blah, blah.

    How about he’s a compromised man, who has disappointed us all, with his slavish, murderous fealty to Israel, and its assorted Jewish supremacist$, just like they all do.

    In fact, by blaming Trump personally for all the evils being done by the ZUSA, is sort of giving a pass to the Zionists, who’re behind the curtain, hoping no one pull the curtain back, and sees them there pulling the levers and turning the dials.

    It’s all Trump!

    He’s doing it!!

    While Sheldon and Haim Saban carefully dial in the next move..

    • Replies: @anonymous
  349. Trinity says:

    Muh Wars For Israel are “Making America Great Again” “because they are jealous of our way life.”

    Dubya & The Donald cosign.

    • Replies: @Desert Fox
  350. Rurik says:
    @Assad al-islam

    Mr. Rurik asked me some questions about Shia Islam, which I answered to him in good faith. Then he came after me with a vengeance,

    Perhaps there was more to it than that.

    I know this fellow, and I doubt he’d act that way simply because you answered a question in good faith.

    He can be ‘excitable, but he’s generally not irrational.

    • Replies: @Assad al-islam
  351. @Rurik

    With coherency Rurik babbled: “All we can hope for, is that Trump is somewhat less of a war-mongering whore of Zion, than he otherwise would be, were it not for the American people holding his feet to the fire, and demanding NO WAR WITH IRAN.”

    Tyt, Rurik, & when you can name any American “people” who holds whorey Trumpstein’s “feet to the fire, and demanding NO WAR WITH IRAN,” please let me know?

    Perhaps Mark Green can help keep your feet warming-light burning here?

    Cheers!🙄

    • Replies: @Rurik
  352. @Trinity

    The ZUS is a feeder system that supplies cannon fodder for the zionist wars and Israel will fight to the last American.

  353. anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rurik

    Accordingly:

    By voting for him in 2016, and doing so again in November, you are enabling the Establishment against which you so passionately rail.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  354. Rurik says:
    @ploni almoni

    We have to lie all the time, anyway. To do otherwise would be be absurd and children’s fairy tales. It is a problem that autistics encounter all the time.

    Telling little lies about if your wife looks great in that dress, or if your boss is a good manager, are certainly forgivable, if expected.

    Telling the world that you didn’t shoot down a commercial passenger jet, full of civilians, moments after it took flight from your capital’s airport, is not the same thing.

    After MH17, the professional liars of the ((Western world)), were screeching that ‘Putin shot down the plane!!!’.

    That was reprehensible, but like Pravda, we’ve all come to expect nothing but lies from our media and governments.

    But what if it turned out that Putin, (the Russian military), was actually at fault for the tragedy?

    And that there was proof, that Russian SAMs systems, operated by Russians, shot down the plane, and then tried to cover it up with lies?

    I personally like Putin. (I consider him the most important bulwark against the fiend on the world’s stage. He may turn out to be the savior of the West, much as he turned out to be the savior of Russia, at least for now). But if following the shoot-down of MH17, he had lied to the world, and to the Russian and Ukrainian people and everyone else, about what had happened, I rather suspect that I’d be calling- collectively, along with millions of Russians and Ukrainians and so many others, for his repudiation.

    Something I was thinking about, over this.. is how some think I’m expecting too much in the way of principles, vis-a-vis this tragedy. But I wonder..

    What, if not principles, were the motivating foundation for the 1979 Iranian Revolution?

    It took an heroic level of patriotism and self-sacrifice for the (especially young, collage age) Iranians to take on SAVAK, and the Shah’s regime thugs, in order to free Iran and it’s people from the clutches of the fiend. No mean feat, that.

    But what would their chances of success have been, if they had said ‘it’s not about any faith in Islam, or any principles thereupon agreed, but rather we want to replace the men in power now, with some other men, who will then make up their own principles as they go.

    ?

    What is a nations state, of not something built upon iron principles?

    Would the founders of this country, have been willing to sacrifice their lives, to kill the British soldiers, if it means simply submission to a different set of men?

    Or did it require a set of iron principles, agreed to by all, that the republic for which they were willing to die, would rule based upon certain, outlined principles?

    I wasn’t there at the Iranian revolution, but I suspect it was the same kind of thing.

    Without principles, what/who are we?

    I’ll tell you who..

  355. Rurik says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    American “people” who holds whorey Trumpstein’s “feet to the fire, and demanding NO WAR WITH IRAN,” please let me know?

    Didn’t you see Trump engetically doing damage control after the assassination/murder?

    Claiming that he did it specifically to avoid war. A lie, of course, he did it to appease his Zionist masters, but he also understood the tenor of the nation, vis-a-vis the Endless Wars.

    Few people on the planet, are more hostile to more wars, that the American Alt-right. – A segment of the public who’re putatively aligned with Trump’s base; Heritage America. – Conservative, generally Christian, gun-owning, middle and working class Americans of all races and creeds, who’re opposed to the radial leftists of Hillary/Pelosi/The Squad/Homomania/war mongers, losers, and fools.

    Iow, the people who called their congresscritters over Obama’s designs to get a congressional mandate to bomb Syria, and said Hell No!

    Americans want to end the Eternal Wars – zio-scumbags, the media and fecal government- notwithstanding.

    Cheers.

    • Replies: @Desert Fox
    , @ChuckOrloski
  356. Rurik says:
    @anonymous

    By voting for him in 2016, and doing so again in November, you are enabling the Establishment against which you so passionately rail.

    You must be joking.

    The establishment have been apoplectic over the advent of ‘Trump’.

    They’ve screeched and blubbered and displayed enough butt-hurt psychic angst to send Preparation H’s stock to the stratosphere, of it could only sooth emotional butt-hurt.

    I don’t see or hear an organ of the Establishment bleeding out of its orifices every time Trump’s name is mentioned.

    There was no one more aligned with the goals of the Establishment, than Hillary Clinton.

    Wars, massive and transformational out, and in-sourcing. Not just destroying the middle and working class in fly-over America, but rubbing their faces in the manure pile, every chance they got.

    It wouldn’t just have been Epstein and Weinstein and homos of every stripe, all treating Heartland America’s kids like their personal little amusements, but the whole culture would have taken a Weimar-American plunge off the cliff into moral depravity beyond comprehension.

    This guys expression, sort of says it all

    And those are the men and women that Trump has routed from the highest echelons of federal law enforcement. It’s almost terrifying to think that these types of men, were running our federal intelligence and investigative operations.

    Moral letches and depraved, arrogant scum. From Clapper to Brennan to Comey and on and on..

    So please don’t pretend that Trump represents the Establishment. He sucks Bibi’s and Sheldon’s ****, because that’s who control the purse-strings and access to ‘favorable’ media treatment, such as it is, for Trump.

    And if Hillary ran against Trump tomorrow, and was the only alternative, I’d clamor over armies and walk though fiery pits of Hell, to pull the lever for Trump. Not for anything he is, (empty suit of pure vanity and ambition, in service to America’s premier ((enemy))), but for what he isn’t. Hillary R. Clinton.

  357. @Rurik

    For the record, the ‘wrongdoing’ I attribute to Iran, was their refusal to admit that Iran shot the plane down.

    Salam brother Rurik,

    After you asked me some question on Shia Islam which I answered you in good faith, you came down on me with a vengeance. The Shia poster with the handle of “MEexpert”, even faulted you. Since, then I have never answered any of your posts. But I strongly believe to give someone three chances, and you have used up two of them and this one your last chance. You seem to hold the Iranian Government at a very, very high standard. As as a government their task is to look after the safety and well being of Iran and their citizens. Iran government has noting to do with Shias or even represent all Shias. I hope my below explanation will help you to understand.

    Wilayat al-Faqih : Guardianship (Imam) of the Islamic Jurist

    Since the death of the Prophet and while his body was still warm and not buried yet, Islam was hijacked. Since then the Shia until very recently (read Iran) have refused to be “The Government” as any government leads to abuses and lust of power. The Shia wanted to have their cake and eat it too! They were always happy for Sunni to form the government and then target them for misrule. What about the Shia Fatimid Dynasty in Egypt where all Egyptians were Shia! And, after the fall of Fatimid they were all converted by sword to Sunni. How about the Safavid Dynasty in Iran! These were all dynasties and nothing to do with Shia 12er Religion.

    Imam Ayatollah Sayyid Khomeini was a Marja just like Ayatollah Sayyid Abu al-Qasim al-Khoei who was mowed down by Saddam due to father Bush. Or Ayatollah Sayyid Ali Sistani who became the highest Marja after Ayatollah Sayyid Abu al-Qasim al-Khoei. Sayyid Khoei and his student Sayyid Sistani have the highest following of the Shia people. Imam Sayyid Khomeini was a different cattle of fish, even though he didn’t have the highest following, today he is considered by majority of Muslims, as “Renewer of Islam”. A renewer comes once every century and he is recognized as renewer 50 to 70 years later. Islam was dead both in Iran and the Arab World due to Shah of Iran. Fashion magazines in Persian language were molded after the American fashion magazines, which introduced to the Muslims’ World the Mighty Mini Skirts. During Khomeini the modesty of Islam came back and out were Mini Skirts. He also came out with vengeance against Wahhabism.

    Iran being mostly Shia decided to form government based on democracy. This is the first time the Shia have attempted to form a government. Who is to oversee the democracy? So he opted for Wilayat al-Faqih, which was for centuries discussed in Shia Islam. The Shia world was in uproar, that how can he be the Wali (Guardian, Imam, Governor) of Sayyid Khoei who had the largest following. Is Sayyid Khomeini making himself a POPE. It was explained that this model is for Iran only and each Shia country can adopt this model from their people. As Marjas are throughout the World and no Marja can be above any other Marja. They are all independent and Sayyid Khomeini even in Iran is not the head of Iranian Marjas.

    People think that it is Iranian who taught the world about Shia Islam. The majority of people in Arab World are mostly Shia. Even after they were mostly converted to Sunni by SWORD, just like the complete Egypt. Majority of the books of Islam including the Quran is in Arabic. The capital of Shia Islam is Iraq and not Iran, especially Najaf (Iraq) and not Qom (Iran). Imam Ali moved the Islamic Capital to Najaf, Iraq and he is buried there. Imam Hussein is buried in Karbala, Iraq and about 3 more Shia Imams are buried in Iraq, making a majority of 11 deceased Imams. Only one Imam is buried in Qom, Iran. The title Sayyid means that they are direct descended of the Prophet (saws) and are Arabs. So both Supreme Leaders of Iran are Arabs and not Iranians.

    My belief is that the Iranian Government, Arab Governments, USA and Russia are in cahoots as they all are sick of Israel. What is in there for the Muslims. Well Israel will be taken care. The Arab Monarch like General Sisi are very happy that Caliphate System has bitten the dust. The Caliphate of ISIS (Baghdadi) is Godsend, as it showed the ugly face of Islam and Caliphate to the World and especially to the Muslims. Imam Hussain took care of it for 600 years by allowing war crimes against himself and the complete family of the Prophet (saws). In 12th Century, came ibn Taymiyyah who was so toxic even to Sunnis, that they locked him up and threw the keys in the sea. Another 600 years later in 18th Century came Abdul Wahhab and revived ibn Taymiyyah.

    What is in for Shia. There is lot of fog over the German history, as it is not available. But the True Islamic History is available in all Muslims’ Books. However, not many Muslims on the other side are aware of this history, as it is disguised in fog by their Mullahs. Even those few on the other side know the history, they disguise it with Taqiyya and Excuses. However, the True History of Islam is slowly, slowly being introduced. It might take a generation, but it will kill sectarianism in Islam. Just like the German History and HoloFake cannot be taught overnight.

  358. @Rurik

    When Trump gets reelected the zionists are going to do a false flag and blame Iran and Trump is going to bomb Iran and it makes no difference if a demon-rat gets elected, the plan is the same, and also Trump will go after our guns, same deal if a demon-rat get in, both are zionist goals, war with Iran and seize the guns.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  359. @Rurik

    You say that like it’s a bad thing.

    Try to recognize sarcasm!

  360. Trinity says:

    Lest we kid ourselves, there is NO VISIBLE “America First” candidate running for POTUS on the repuke side and there damn sure isn’t one running on the side of the rabidly anti-White demshevik side, at least not as far as anyone with a realistic shot at winning the election. This is WHY I lay a lot of blame on Whites themselves. WE were the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY and WE ALLOWED THIS CRAP TO HAPPEN.

    Creepy Joe Biden is as anti-White as black Corey Booker or Jewish Bernie Sanders. Can you imagine any Black, Hispanic, or Jew going against their own kind or applauding the destruction of their own race and culture? Obama would not have been elected were it not for tens of millions of white traitor trash psychopathic cretins voting for him. Obama was proven to be anti-White before he was elected and yet all those self hating White morons still voted for him. And then look at the two “white men” who ran against Obama, both Romney and McAmnesty were the personification of how a white traitor trash cuckservative acts and behaves. The display these two traitor trash cucks put on and continued to put on years later was pathetic. How in the hell are you going to vote your way out this mess when there is absolutely little or no difference between these two corrupt, anti-White, pro-Zionist and pro-multicultural parties??

    Cowardly Whites scorned anyone who even appeared to be slightly pro-White in the past and they were all for these candidates to be painted as kooks, “nazis,” and anti-American. Legit and credible candidates like Dr. David Duke were probably scorned more by their fellow traitorous kinsmen than Jews or nonwhites. Before Trump, you had George Wallace. George Wallace rallies made those earlier Trump rallies look tame by comparison. You think Trump had protestors? Take a look back at some of those Wallace rallies. Even lukewarm pro-White candidates like Pat Buchanan were demonized. lmao. IF Pat Buchanan is considered a “white nationalist” and an “anti-Semite” than Jesse Jackson is a REAL “reverend” who has read the Bible 5 times.

    Even now in the year 2020, not one single solitary white male or white female politician who is at least nationally known or in a prominent position has the cojones to promote any sort of pro-White agenda, condemn Black on White rape, talk about Jewish power and influence or stand up for civil rights of Whites in this country. We arrived at this point largely because of White traitorous behavior, White greed, White selfishness ( not caring about their kinsmen or the future of the country), etc. Good luck with the 2020 election because I will probably use my vote to write in a relatively unknown pro-White candidate or Donald Duck for President.

  361. @Rurik

    Okay, okay, Rurik.

    Reckon there are Americans 😊who are compelled to hold Trumpstein’s “feet to fire” and persuade him to not launch catastophic regime change in Iran.

    Nonetheless, Rurik, I suggest this:

    Russians under President Putin’s leadership & intimidating foreign policy goals did more to hold back Trumpstein’s trigger finger & did a helluva lot more than, and in your pie-in-THE Blue & Whitewashed Sky words,
    “Trump’s base; Heritage America. – Conservativegenerally Christian, gun-owning, middle and working class Americans of all races and creeds, who’re opposed to the radial leftists of Hillary/Pelosi/The Squad/Homomania/war mongers, losers, and fools.”

    P.S.: Haha. The MAGA populist,Trumpstein, is temporarily unchained from the Zio impeacment Squad, and is now off to attend Davos seances.🙄

    • LOL: Assad al-islam
    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @Iris
  362. @Rurik

    I know this fellow, and I doubt he’d act that way simply because you answered a question in good faith.

    He can be ‘excitable, but he’s generally not irrational.

    Salam Rurik, one question or bunch of questions.

    LOL Rurik, trying to soften it! And, then you try to hold the Iranian Government at a higher standard! Tut, tut….

  363. Rurik says:
    @Assad al-islam

    As-salamu alaikum, Assad al-islam,

    After you asked me some question on Shia Islam which I answered you in good faith, you came down on me with a vengeance. The Shia poster with the handle of “MEexpert”, even faulted you.

    Well, I’m, familiar with MEexpert, and consider him a very reasonable sort, so perhaps I was unfair to you, but it is not my wont to be rude to people who participate in ‘good faith’, so I suspect there must have been a misunderstanding of some kind. If I fell short of courtesy, then you have my apologies. (but I would still like to see it in context).

    and this one your last chance.

    You see, that’s the kind of tone for which I’m not well suited. I’ve even taken a measured umbrage at ultimatums.

    But in this case, I’ll put it down to cultural fault.

    Since the death of the Prophet and while his body was still warm and not buried yet, Islam was hijacked. Since then the Shia until very recently (read Iran) have refused to be “The Government” as any government leads to abuses and lust of power.

    Heavy-duty stuff, there.

    I’m not even a neophyte on the scholarship, tenets, conflicts or current rifts of Islam. Or any religion or philosophy for that matter. I know enough about the minutia of my niche in the tech world, but beyond that, I’m way too ignorant to agree or disagree with the momentous debates that are so intractable (if tragic) for so many Muslims. Not that I like it that way, but I’ve never been an intellectual heavyweight, (or even lightweight ; ), so you’ll forgive me if I simply don’t posses the depth to weigh in on those difficult matters.

    Islam was dead both in Iran and the Arab World due to Shah of Iran. Fashion magazines in Persian language were molded after the American fashion magazines,

    This, I get.

    As I’ve mentioned, (perhaps because of my limitations) I use an infallible metric to glimmer the good guys from the bad guys, in government, and beyond. It doesn’t always work to know who the good guys are, but it does for the bad guys. I think you even saw me mention it, (or someone with a name like yours) on another thread. Anyways, if a regime is friendly to Zion, (beyond the normal diplomatic courtesies), and invites in members of the Mossad (or their stooges at the CIA and MI6), to run herd on their citizens, then that regime is going to be the enemy of their people. That’s how I discovered that the Shah was an enemy of Iran, (and Islam), because he was a friend of Zion. Like the Saudis today. And so many others. So for simple people like me, using useful metrics like that, can be very helpful.

    For an American, it works the same. The closer to AIPAC a politician is, the more treasonous and perfidious that politician is.

    My belief is that the Iranian Government, Arab Governments, USA and Russia are in cahoots as they all are sick of Israel.

    Well then, they certainly have a strange way of showing it.

    In 12th Century, came ibn Taymiyyah who was so toxic even to Sunnis, that they locked him up and threw the keys in the sea. Another 600 years later in 18th Century came Abdul Wahhab and revived ibn Taymiyyah.

    Please understand, it is with all respect, that I want to point out to you that much of what you’re saying, is no doubt said in earnest and good-faith, but to a Westerner, not immersed in the minutia of Islam, our eyes glaze over, and it sound like so much obscure scholarship to be hashed out and poured over by theologians and clerics.

    I wonder, are you suggesting that you consider there to be an intractable flaw in Iran’s government, based on their interpretation of Islam?

    Is the Saudi interpretation, (and its manifestations upon the Muslim world), any better?

    • Replies: @Assad al-islam
  364. Rurik says:
    @Desert Fox

    When Trump gets reelected the zionists are going to do a false flag and blame Iran and Trump is going to bomb Iran and it makes no difference if a demon-rat gets elected, the plan is the same, and also Trump will go after our guns, same deal if a demon-rat get in, both are zionist goals, war with Iran and seize the guns.

    Well Desert Fox, I certainly consider those predictions to be well within the possibilities of our fate.

    The good news, if there is any, is that while I do consider those steps as possible, I will say they seem to me to be more on the pessimistic side, as opposed to the other.

    Or, another way is saying it, is that those are the worst-case scenarios. The best case-scenario, is that if Trump gets his second term, he’ll put in place safeguards against being ‘JFK’d’, and then go after all the deepstate scum who’ve made his life so miserable for so many years. John Brennan for instance.

    I really don’t know which scenario is more likely, but I hope it’s the latter. Even if that seems a bit Pollyanna.

    Yes, you could be right, but then there are a lot of Deplorables that would not take too kindly to being asked to hand in their guns, and things could get tricky.

    • Replies: @Desert Fox
  365. Rurik says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    Russians under President Putin’s leadership & intimidating foreign policy goals did more to hold back Trumpstein’s trigger finger

    So, let me ask you Chuck, do you think Trump was/is keen to bomb Syria, and remove Assad, and it was only Putin’s intimidation that thwarted Trump’s intention of destroying and occupying Syria for perpetuity?

    Can you read Trump’s heart?

    P.S.: Haha. The MAGA populist,Trumpstein, is temporarily unchained from the Zio impeacment Squad,

    Please Chuck, for the sake of us mediocrities, use less esoteric coding in your prose.

    Is it a ruse, that Pelosi and Schumer, and the Squad hate Trump’s guts, and that really, they’ve been working in cahoots from day one?

    Perhaps it isn’t four dimensional chess that he’s playing, but sixteen?

    • Replies: @Assad al-islam
  366. Iris says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    Hello Mr O.;

    This alleged “report” of US casualties in Ain Al Asad military base is being circulated on the Internet.
    The figures are so high it seems it could only be fake.

    What do you think of it?

    • Replies: @Brewer
    , @ChuckOrloski
  367. To me, Rurik asked: “So, let me ask you Chuck, do you think Trump was/is keen to bomb Syria, and remove Assad, and it was only Putin’s intimidation that thwarted Trump’s intention of destroying and occupying Syria for perpetuity?”

    Answer: yes.

    Rurik’s next question: “Can you read Trump’s heart?”

    Answer: No. Am Polish but not Conrad, and Trumpstein’s heart is simply too dark.

  368. @Rurik

    Heavy-duty stuff, there.

    I’m not even a neophyte on the scholarship, tenets, conflicts or current rifts of Islam. Or any religion or philosophy for that matter.

    Salam Rurik,

    No, it is not Heavy-duty stuff. I am discussing the rifts in Islam. Due to my ignorance I used to think that Hitler was a monster until I studied the history of WW2 for myself. You are a very intelligent person and someone who is interest in the Truth. So, I am basically saying to you to study the Islamic history for yourself. You will find out that the Prophet (saws) didn’t marry a child of six years. The child is signing her own songs claiming as such and whom the Quran calls a liar and destined for Hell.

    Well then, they certainly have a strange way of showing it.

    Not really, it is not sooo easy to defeat the snake.

    Please understand, it is with all respect, that I want to point out to you that much of what you’re saying, is no doubt said in earnest and good-faith, but to a Westerner, not immersed in the minutia of Islam, our eyes glaze over, and it sound like so much obscure scholarship to be hashed out and poured over by theologians and clerics.

    Not really, I am pretty sure that you know Abdul Wahhab and Wahhabism. As a person interest in Truth and who hate lies, you cannot feign ignorance. Neither you can feign ignorance of Caliph Abu Bakr Baghdadi, which is again based on Wahhabism.

    I wonder, are you suggesting that you consider there to be an intractable flaw in Iran’s government, based on their interpretation of Islam?

    Is the Saudi interpretation, (and its manifestations upon the Muslim world), any better?

    As Shia, we are very excited in the governance of Iranian Model. As I mentioned earlier this is the first time, the Shia have accepted to govern. God bless Khomeini who had the charisma and power to institute this kind of government model in Iran. All Muslims (read Sunnis and Shias) consider Khomeini as a Renewer of Islam for the 20th Century. It seems a successful model and would be nice it is implemented in Iraq, but I am afraid the USA will not allow it and Sistani keeps away from politics.

  369. @Rurik

    So, let me ask you Chuck, do you think Trump was/is keen to bomb Syria, and remove Assad, and it was only Putin’s intimidation that thwarted Trump’s intention of destroying and occupying Syria for perpetuity?

    Salam Rurik,

    Like I said that they all are in cahoots. Even Obama didn’t wanted to remove Asad, as it was the excuse to bring Iran at the doorsteps of Israel. Also, allowed Iran a land supply line to Hezbollah. When Russia walked in and took over Crimea, at that I said on the Saker’s blog that both Obama and Putin are in cahoots, and Obama gave Crimea to Russia on a silver platter. People taught at that time I being a camel jockey, I don’t know what cahoots means. I am very sure that you are aware of the significance of Crimea to Russia. They can now control the Mediterranean Sea and denying Israel the access anytime. On the other side, meaning the Red Sea the access too is now controlled by Iran (Houtis in Yemen) at Bab al-Mandeb.

    I was surprised that how can Iran being surrounded by sanctions, they could have developed a precise missile guided system which strike dead center of their targets. Now Russia is claiming that they provided these missiles to Iran. Iran technology is very backward especially, when it comes to air. They gave USA prior knowledge of this strike and ofcourse Israel was aware of it, thus the downing of Ukraine Airplane.

  370. @Rurik

    I hope I am wrong , however Trump is hand in glove with the deep state swamp, and his AG Barr is not only a zionist but is as corrupt as they come and was involved in gun and drug running when he was GHW Bushes AG, with Oliver North and Clinton, when Clinton was governor of Arkansas , see the book Compromised Clinton, Bush and the CIA by Vietnam veteran Terry Reed and see his videos on youtube, they are all swamp creatures and crooked as hell.

    Also I believe that Epstein is alive and I believe Barr had a major hand in getting Epstein out of the country. The book can be had on amazon.com and Barr’s undercover name in this book is Robert Johnson and Barr is also CIA and has been CIA for decades. This book reads like a novel, but it is all true and they even tried to kill Terry Reed.

  371. @Iris

    Dear Iris,

    Am incentivuzed to never trust the zionized Pentagon, especially since Zio Secretary Rumsfeld publically announced $trillions of M.I.A. dollars, and Amerikans got a spitoon accounting. 😞

    Consequently, official reports on the ZUS’s GWOT casualties can fluctuate (hout to hour) and according to the Pentagon’s predilection.

    Thank you!!!

  372. @Assad al-islam

    I am discussing the rifts in Islam.

    Correction, it should read I am NOT discussing the rifts in Islam.

  373. @Rurik

    No!
    I did say in a hope. (solidarity)
    Please curtail your insecurity.
    In my opinion you are one of the best brains here.

    • Agree: Assad al-islam
    • Replies: @Rurik
  374. @Assad al-islam

    Everything you say is correct.
    But all of you are conveniently forgetting the murder of prophet’s grandson who was to become Caliph.
    Prophet grandson was in love with Iranian princess and was about to transfer Caliphate to Persia.
    That political move you could not tolerate.
    So I do have to ask you?
    Where is the guilt?

  375. @geokat62

    Ionian rebellion? What on earth could they have been rebelling against?

    Greek , [z]ionized yogurt.

    • LOL: ChuckOrloski
    • Replies: @geokat62
  376. geokat62 says:
    @Daniel Rich

    [z]ionized yogurt.

    Speaking of [z]ionized yogurt, a little trivial pursuit:

    Danone was founded by Isaac Carasso, a Sephardic Jewish doctor, who began producing yogurt in Barcelona, Spain in 1919. The brand was named Danone, which translates to “little Daniel”, after his son Daniel Carasso.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danone

  377. artichoke says:
    @onebornfree

    That video is nonsense. The “proof” ignores the rules of perspective: when you move, the near objects appear to move the opposite way more than the distant ones do! The same mistake is made over and over purporting to “prove” something.

    I don’t know a lot of things about 9/11. But that video is nonsense.

  378. artichoke says:
    @Assad al-islam

    It appears that the young generation of Iranians isn’t liking it very much either. You can be excited about it, so why don’t you go live under that government?

    Muslims are told by their religious texts to export their Ummah, forcibly. We don’t want it. We’ll push you back out. You’re vigilant and aggressive and sneaky, so we must be more vigilant and more aggressive because we’re less sneaky.

    • Replies: @Assad al-islam
  379. @Assad al-islam

    Systems of solipsistic insanity can include any number of people who reinforce each other’s fantasies. They always perceive themselves as victims of the ignorant and uncomprehending majority which is malevolently unwilling to see the blinding truth of their assertions. Ali knew he was making mistakes but it was noble and deep to make mistakes. Husayn was making mistakes and and going off a cliff, but it was noble to make mistakes and go off a cliff. You see this in the population all the time in individual cases but when it is the whole tribe or nation that exists in a mirror world it is astonishing. Amazingly, everyone now and then someone escapes from this collective insanity.

  380. Rurik says:
    @Assad al-islam

    Salaam Assad al-islam,

    And thank you for your kind words.

    …study the Islamic history for yourself. You will find out that the Prophet (saws) didn’t marry a child of six years. The child is signing her own songs claiming as such and whom the Quran calls a liar and destined for Hell.

    Well, that sort of seems extreme, both the ‘marriage’ and the damnation of a child that young.

    But I don’t take religious texts literally. I’ve seen stuff in the Bible that would curdle the blood of a scorpion. I’ve read things about Judaism, where the Talmud apparently permits a rabbi to have sex with three year old toddlers, provided he waits one day beyond her third birthday.

    But I don’t extrapolate the moral atrocities sanctioned in the Bible, as defaming Christians, any more than the moral horrors rampant in the Talmud, paint all Jews.

    So I would hardly be inclined to use obscure passages in the Quran, to give a blanket condemnation of Islam or Muslims. Most of whom, seem like good and decent people to me. Just as most Jews and Christians are law-abiding, decent people, who don’t go around raping toddlers.

    For me, the ancient religious texts are general guides, often to be taken poetically and symbolically, rather than literally. The Bible says God created the earth and the heavens in six days, but I don’t take that literally. Any more than I believe the earth is some five or so thousand years old.

    Some people, far more pious than myself, might condemn my soul for such a casual reading of ‘God’s word’, but I don’t feel too threatened by that. I’m very forgiving of human frailties, we’re all mortal, after all, and imperfect.

    it is not sooo easy to defeat the snake.

    True that!

    Neither you can feign ignorance of Caliph Abu Bakr Baghdadi, which is again based on Wahhabism.

    Isn’t that the fellow seen here with John McBloodstain?

    Khomeini as a Renewer of Islam for the 20th Century. It seems a successful model and would be nice it is implemented in Iraq, but I am afraid the USA will not allow it and Sistani keeps away from politics.

    What ever the USA allows or doesn’t allow, is entirely dependent upon what a handful of Zionist, Jewish supremacists consider in their best interest. That much, I know.

    But from everything I can glimmer, Iran, (pre-, and post the zio-rat Shah), has been an exemplary nation of exemplary people. Much to be admired, and emulated, insofar as they’re a repudiation of the head-slicing orcs of ISIS, or the journalist-torturing BFF of Bibi and Zion. (I’m not a fan of the Saudi regime, attempting to starve to death the children of Yemen, in order to impose their corruption and rapine as far and wide as possible). The Saudis are a friend of Zion, and using my metric, that tells me all I need to know about them.

    Obama didn’t wanted to remove Asad, as it was the excuse to bring Iran at the doorsteps of Israel. Also, allowed Iran a land supply line to Hezbollah. … and Obama gave Crimea to Russia on a silver platter.

    Well, here we have to agree to disagree.

    I consider Obama nothing more than a tool of Zion. If his ((masters)) said bomb Libya, he obeyed like the cur he was and is. I don’t give Obama credit for Iran’s supply line to Hezbollah or Russia’s securing of Crimea, in any way, shape or form. Those very positive developments are due to Iran’s leadership, Hezbollah’s heroics, and Putin’s savvy and genius. The only possitive thing I can think of that Obama did, was the Iran deal. Which I suspect had something to do with (black man) Obama bristling at his domination by an arrogant white-man uber-prick, Bibi. – I did enjoy that spectacle, of a black supremacist racist – Obama, being ordered around like a dog, by a Jewish supremacist racist – Bibi. Obama, unlike Trump, didn’t like being Bibi’s dog. Trump seems to feel right at home, at Bibi’s feet. He knows his place.

    Salaam Assad al-islam,

    Always a pleasure to learn from people with vastly wide-ranging experiences and viewpoints. Which is part of the reason I’m here. Also, I’d like to think that though dialogue, many of our seemingly intractable differences, can be mollified though understanding. I especially feel this way about the rifts in Islam, which I consider tragic, insofar as Muslim kills Muslim, especially at the behest of Zion. As you mention Hitler, I consider the betrayals of Germany following the Armistice, and the carnage of WWII, as nothing more than Christian slaughtering Christian, at the behest of Zion. We two people’s, (Muslim and Christian), must not allow Zion to get us slaughtering each other, as the fiend giggles and exclaims ‘Such a deal!’

    That is my hope, and my sincere goal.

    Peace.

  381. Rurik says:
    @Ilyana_Rozumova

    (solidarity)

    Please curtail your insecurity.

    oops

    Please forgive my mistake, but I was getting hammered from every angle, (from many whom I respected) for simply expressing my heartfelt opinions, without malice or guile. And yet the condemnations were flooding in from all sides. I knew not where to expect the next slings and arrows to fly in from..

    Thank you, for your solidarity, and for seeing that my intentions, (even if potentially in error), are well meaning, and in solidarity with the people of Iran, and principles of thereof.

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  382. Lurker says:
    @onebornfree

    Were any of these ‘Rich Kids’ seen dancing at the time of the shootdown?

  383. @Rurik

    To Ilyana, a good man, Rurik wrote: “Please forgive my mistake, but I was getting hammered from every angle, (from many whom I respected) for simply expressing my heartfelt opinions, without malice or guile.”

    Re, above; No, no, Rurik. No “slings & arrows” flown at you! With objectivity, please return & reconsider the comment exchange?

    From me in particular, all you really got was recyclable “Caution” signs and a floating a Fig Leaf which together were meant as a signal to not judge the Iranians who daily get stoned by the ZUS and Israeli Pharisees.

    Thanks for Solidarnosz? 👌

    P.S.: Had Jacques Sheete been around, am fairly certain he’d try to grab your humane hand, & prior to your going down a Gadarene cliff.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  384. Rurik says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    a signal to not judge the Iranians who daily get stoned by the ZUS and Israeli Pharisees.

    I was not judging the Iranians, but the leaders who lied. And I continue to think, expound and caution, that lying, deception and duplicity, are not statecraft, if you’re going to rally your people and allies to your (admittedly noble) cause.

    I miss Jacques.

    Cheers Chuck.

  385. Dear Sir,

    Why the concerted effort to link electronic jamming etc with the aircraft transponder failure?

    No such devilishly clever measures were required to accomplish that end.

    Boeing aircraft have been specifically DESIGNED to have their electronic systems TAKEN OVER by US government and military agencies. All done remotely, by satellite link. As plain and simple as that. It’s no big secret, although none of the parties involved advertise it.

    This design “feature” was incorporated into post-9-11 Boeing aircraft as a “security” feature, allegedly to prevent any more nasty “hijackers” getting control of more planes after the (government orchestrated and military implemented) 9-11 False Flag.

    Of course, being the silly lemmings that we all are, no-one thought to question the rationale or the true motives for the Deep State, military & MIC getting arbitrary remote control of any and all Boeing aircraft flying around the world.

    The Turkish plane was a Boeing, and it’s transponder got switched off. No fancy radar spoofing or top-secret electronic warfare tricks required. Just a satellite signal sent to the aircraft as it took off. All timed like clockwork for the boys with their phone-cameras to get good footage from their pre-positioned vantage point.

    And remember that other Boeing that went missing over the Indian Ocean? Yeah, that’s right…

    • Replies: @Rurik
  386. @Rurik

    Well, that sort of seems extreme, both the ‘marriage’ and the damnation of a child that young.

    Salam Brother Rurik,

    First I have made correction to my above post 376 to you, in my post 381, which reads: “I am NOT discussing the rifts in Islam. Secondly, you are an excellent writer but a bad reader, which 90% of the population is. Please don’t take this an insult to you until you have finished reading this post and reflected on it.

    [MORE]

    THERE WAS NO MARRIAGE TO A CHILD, BUT MARRIAGE TO A DIVORCED WOMAN OF 35 YEARS OF AGE. AND, THE DAMNATION IS TO A VERY EVIL WIFE WHO HAPPENS TO BE A LIAR TOO.Read my post 376 again.

    Now, a brief 50 years of Islamic history after the death of the Prophet (saws) unit WAR CRIMES against his family, meaning his grandson Hussein were committed. I believe, you have participated in the latest Pepe’s article on this forum.

    At the death of the Prophet, while his body was being prepared for burial, a group of nine people left the burial procession and went into a different town. Travels in those days was not in cars, but camels, horses and donkeys. They decided to nominate a successor to the Prophet as they claimed that the Prophet failed to do so. When they came back at night, the Prophet was already buried. The nominated successor sneaked in Prophet’s room and slept there. In the morning, he was the First Caliph of Islam and according to them the Prophet failed in his job to appoint a successor, so it became incumbent on them to nominate a successor.

    What happened then was a 50 years of civil wars within Islam. Rebellion after rebellion. Everything was reversed what Prophet built during his life, some of the things.
    Prophet words hearsay (hadiths) are higher than Quran which was/is a revelation from God.
    We don’t need Prophet’s hadiths as we have Quran to guide us (contradiction).
    Prophet’s hadiths were burned.
    The Quran was compiled in non-chronological order.
    It was compiled with Old Arabic lacking grammar and could not be read. The proper Quran was revealed in Quranic Classical Arabic with pure grammar.
    Slavery was back in business and raping of war captured women was in.
    Yemen being complete Muslim Country refused the rule of the First Caliph, the first civil war was waged againt them and they were taken as slaves and their women raped.
    Anyone who stood againt them were called apostate and were murdered, contrary to Islamic Freedom in Quran, “There should be no compulsion in religion”
    Islam was spread by SWORD for mammon, and put a knife in Christianity which helped Islam and provided protection to early adherents of the Prophets.
    The Evil Woman waged a war against the Fourth Caliph Ali, which is called, “War of Camel”.
    Ali was murdered by the son of abu Sufyan Omayyad, the arch enemy of Islam. His son who murdered Ali, become the Fifth Caliph and from then on the Caliphate become the Dynasty of Omayyad.
    The son of Fifth Caliph (grandson of abu Sufyan Omayyad) became the Sixth Caliph, who committed WAR CRIMES against the Prophet’s family, i.e. Imam Hussein.

    On and on, but I am sure by now you have caught my drift. After Ali’s death when most of the Prophet’s companions were dead, the Prophet’s hearsay (hadiths) were cooked and cooked again. Mostly contradictory hadiths which were transmitted verbally. In Islam Prophet’s life is for Muslims to emulate. If the Caliph or his friends are Pedophiles, cook a hearsay (hadith) that Prophet married a six years old child, so it is OK for any Old, Old man to marry a child in this day and age.

    The cooked hearsay (hadiths) were compiled in writing in six books (each book is voluminous, like Talmud) 250 years later after the death of the Prophet. These six books are called “Sahih Sitta”, meaning Six Authenticated Books of Hadiths and are higher than Quran as being the Prophet’s Traditions.

    You don’t have to take my words for it, as History is there for you to learn. With such high standards and morals, you cannot sit on the edge by saying, “current rifts of Islam” . You have to come down the wall and to take a stand what is right and wrong, what is truth and lie.

    I hope, I didn’t insult you by calling you not a good reader, especially on forums like this where English is not the mother tongue of the many posters.

    With respect, peace and salam to dear brother Rurik,

    Mohamed

    • Replies: @Rurik
  387. @Rurik

    Salam brother Rurik,

    But I don’t take religious texts literally.

    Neither do I. The most famous verse in Quran which is displayed in most Muslims’ house is as follow:

    [MORE]

    Allah! There is no deity but Him, the Alive, the Eternal. Neither slumber nor sleep overtaketh Him. Unto Him belongeth whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is in the earth. Who could intercede in His presence without His permission? He knoweth that which is in front of them and that which is behind them, while they encompass nothing of His knowledge except what He wills. His throne includeth the heavens and the earth, and He is never weary of preserving them. He is the Sublime, the Tremendous.

    If you remember properly as I told you earlier that we Shias don’t believe A Creator can be a creation. Everything we see around us is creation, including the Quran, for which the Shias were murdered for believing that the Quran is a creation like everything. So, God doesn’t have body, shape. form, spirit and so forth as these are all creations. Also, He/She/It (no sexual organs as no body) is not bound by time and space, as both time and space being creations too. So, the above verse is nothing but allegorical.

    The Bible says God created the earth and the heavens in six days, but I don’t take that literally.

    In Quran it says too. But Bible is a translation of Jesus spoken language Aramaic. In Arabic, “Yom” means a day, whereas “Ayam” means days, periods, seasons and so forth. Instead of six days, it could mean six periods. Having said this, in Quran there is another way the creation of the earth and the heavens is explained as God is not bound by time and space. It say, Allah wills and it instantly happens. Again, instantly involves time, but no time is involved.

    In Quran it says that God is forever expanding the Universe, the recent science bears witness to that. Islam is not Christianity nor Judaism.

    I especially feel this way about the rifts in Islam, which I consider tragic, insofar as Muslim kills Muslim, especially at the behest of Zion.

    No brother this is not at the behest of Zion. It started happening while the dead body of the Prophet was still warm and not buried yet. After 50 years of his death it accumulated in war crimes against the complete family of the Prophet, not against the so called child-wife and any other wives. The Omayyad Dynasty continued this persecution of the Shia till today. Abu Taymiyyah, Abdul Wahhab, Wahhabism are part of these persecution. The ISIS theology is not new and it started with the death of the Prophet while his body was still warm and continued till today. I saw you ignored my comments regarding ISIS and blamed the Jews. To me the ISIS is Godsend, as it showed the ignorant Muslims the dark face of Islam.

    You should read Abdul Wahhab history that in three consecutive he went to Iraq from KSA, killed more than 40,000 Shia pilgrimage and looted the gold they brought for charity. We cannot remain ignorant in this day and age and remain on fence!

    Peace,

  388. Rurik says:
    @Ultrafart the Brave

    All timed like clockwork for the boys with their phone-cameras

    Yes, turning off the transponder and even commandeering the jet’s controls, I think we all agree are well within the capabilities (technical and moral) of zion. But how do you get the Iranian SAMs systems to shoot the jet down?

    Even without its transponder, a Russian built, Iranian Tor system can differentiate between a commercial passenger jet and a cruise missile.

    There are a number of speculations.

    Mine has been that perhaps, Ukraine outfitted that jet with electronics to purposely fool the Tor system. Ukraine is a full-on zio-occupied nation. Being zio, they would have every motivation to want to kill Iranians and embarrass the government. And being zio, they wouldn’t have cared one whit about the Ukrainian crew, unless killing the Iranian passengers and killing the Ukrainian crew, would have been seen as a bonus.

    Then there is the theory that one or more of the passengers were inconvenient somehow to the Iranian government, and so that’s why the plane was shot down.

    The only other alternative that I know of, is that the Tor operator was too incompetent to operate the system, and so scared that he acted like a nervous mouse, and shot down the first thing he saw, even as it was moments out from Tehran’s commercial airport.

    That scenario beggars belief. And isn’t aligned with the camera man standing there at the ready.

    But if the plane was intended to be shot down, (either by Ukrainian or Iranian chicanery), then that would solve all the other dilemmas.

    Personally, I happen to consider the government of Iran, as being far less likely to shoot down a plane full of people, in order to kill one or more inconvenient persons. Because I more or less consider the government of Iran, as somewhat moral. (Even if they lied about what happened), but governments are governments, after all, and so I put nothing past a government.

    But Ukraine is run by full-blown Zionists. The president is a stooge of Zionist oligarch Ihor Kolomoyskyi, who I suspect was responsible for shooting down MH17. He has his own military. And the pilot who flew the jet that is suspected of shooting down MH17, committed “suicide”.

    https://www.rt.com/news/421942-ukrainian-pilot-mh17-suicide/

    https://russia-insider.com/en/print/5331

    It would make perfect sense, all around, if Ukraine was responsible for the shoot-down.

    Their government has been installed by the worst of the worst set of zio-scum on the planet; the Kagan cabal. Including that most execrable toady of zion of all, John McCain. [Rot in Hell]

    Ever since the zio-putsch to install their cronies, Ukraine has been at war with Russia.

    (this is why the Ukraine is receiving so much funding and arms from the ZUS, al la the idiocy going on now with the impeachment farce).

    So it would serve zion’s agenda perfectly, for Ukraine to outfit one of its passenger jets (that is known to fly to Tehran), to imitate a cruise missile, in order to embarrass Iran, get some Iranians killed, and ultimately put pressure on Iran to submit to zion. Especially coming on the heals of the popular general’s assassination, that we all know was orchestrated by zion.

    • Disagree: Assad al-islam
    • Replies: @Robjil
  389. @Rurik

    Salam brother Rurik,

    Well, here we have to agree to disagree.

    As you mention Hitler, I consider the betrayals of Germany following the Armistice, and the carnage of WWII, as nothing more than Christian slaughtering Christian, at the behest of Zion.

    The Caliphate of ISIS was Godsend and it showed majority of the ignorant Muslims, the evil and dirty face of Islam. The masses are asking questions, where did this theology in Islam came from. And slowly, slowly the Mullah on the other side, the majority side are reeducating the masses that this theology came form the Omayyad Dynasty of Caliphate, carried on by the Abbasid Dynasty of Caliphate, carried to the recent Ottoman Dynasty of Caliphate and on to ISIS Caliphate. This reeducation is slow and might take a generation but cannot be done over night, just like if the World decided to reeducate the masses regarding the true history of Germany, it cannot done over night and might take a generation.

    Also, the Arab Spring brought true democracy in Egypt under Muslim Brotherhood, who are very humble and good Muslims. It was a farce, and it ensured people willing to accept the Monarchies again, like The Monarchy of General Sisi in Egypt. Fortunately, the Caliphate is thrown under the bus, along with the aspiration for Caliphate by majority Muslims. Goods times are ahead for Muslims and this reeducation of True History of Islam will rid Islam of Sectarianism. Amen!

    Don’t underestimate the World, your leaders and your military men as they are not all sell out, including Trump. Also, don’t underestimate the Muslims, the Arabs and the Iranians, the Sunnis and the Shias who lived together even the heavy persecution of the latter by the former. After WWI, WWII and especially the Kennedy’s murder, the world decided to get rid of the ZION. Getting rid of the SNAKE is not so easy, satan plans and God Plans, and God is the best of the Planner. The 29 standing ovation to Bibi in the USA congress at the end of Obama term was to inflate the ego. The balloon is so full of air, it will take just a slight prick. Don’t believe me, then study what Israel is going through lately and Imam Sayyid Ruhollah Khomeini quote that 70 years is a page in history.

    Keep your belief strong in HOPE!

  390. @artichoke

    It appears that the young generation of Iranians isn’t liking it very much either. You can be excited about it, so why don’t you go live under that government?

    I am an Arab and I live in my own country which is part of GCC. I am married for 45 years to a WASP, a hick like me from Arkansas, and we both live in my own county. We both decided that living in USA is like living in a rat’s hole. I was in USA for 13 years, and USA is a Great Country, with very Great People. God bless USA, and God bless all His children (creation).

    Muslims are told by their religious texts to export their Ummah, forcibly.

    I am a Shia Muslim and we don’t believe in exporting the Ummah, let alone by force.

    Peace,

    Mohamed

  391. Rurik says:
    @Assad al-islam

    Salaam, Assad al-islam

    I appreciate your heartfelt examinations of Islam, and the rift, (as I innocently call it), between the Sunnis and the Shias. This is something I’ve been curious about, since so much suffering has resulted from it, and continues to, even today.

    You don’t have to take my words for it, as History is there for you to learn. With such high standards and morals, you cannot sit on the edge by saying, “current rifts of Islam” . You have to come down the wall and to take a stand what is right and wrong, what is truth and lie.

    Oh my goodness, Assad al-islam. Consider, I was raised a protestant Christian, and many of my extended family are Catholics. As are many of my friends and associates. I’m also well aware of the wars waged and the mindless slaughters of so many in Europe, over the respective doctrines of Catholic vs. protestant. But even so, I would not deign in a million years to presume to tell Catholics or protestants that their faith is in error, (even as I do condemn their corrupt leaders) because I simply don’t possess that kind of wisdom. So it would be folly of the worst sort, for me to presume to weigh in on the minutia of Islam, and their respective interpretations. All I can do, is hope that they can sort our their differences peacefully. It pains me to no end to see Sunni fighting Shia, as Zion laughs all the way to their demonic ‘third temple’.

    To me the ISIS is Godsend, as it showed the ignorant Muslims the dark face of Islam.

    I once had a ‘rift’ of sorts with one of the participants here, when I speculated that perhaps there are Muslims that would be sanguine over the deaths of other Muslims, so long as those deaths advanced an agenda of Muslims.

    He chastised me thoroughly, until I agreed that such was not the case.

    I do admit that it seems somewhat callous to me, to laud the advent of ISIS, considering all the suffering they caused. And at the end of the day, did their reign, and repudiation- have a significant effect on the ongoing challenges inside Islam?

    No brother this is not at the behest of Zion. It started happening while the dead body of the Prophet was still warm and not buried yet.

    Yes, going back. But I’m talking about today. I see the entire reign of ISIS as having been orchestrated and funded and armed and fomented in the wretched id of zion’s bowels.

    It was zion, that destroyed Libya, and it was zion that sent the orcs who lynched Gadaffi into Syria, armed with Libya’s’ weapons, to rampage and slaughter and head-slice their way across the terrified, blood-drenched Levant.

    But what saddens me, genuinely was how many Muslims were all too giddy to get in on the action.

    Turkey, and Saudis and so many others, were all keen to see Syria destroyed, its ancient treasures profaned, its men, old and young, tortured and then hacked to death. It’s women, well.. never mind.

    It was all just so revolting, and tragic, especially to see so many Muslims partake in it all. That’s what I mean about zion pulling those strings, and fomenting so much suffering. (which, is what they do, after all), but why do so many Muslims play into their schemes?!

    It seems to me that the only nation that hates Iran more than Israel, is Saudi Arabia. Fellow Muslims! The only one more keen to see Syria dismembered, is Turkey, fellow Muslims.

    To me, it seems so damn tragic. Please Islam, get your house in order. That’s my prayer to Allah.

    We cannot remain ignorant in this day and age and remain on fence!

    Are you familiar with Talha?

    He has been my instructor here at Unz, on some of the tenets and principles of Islam, over the years. He is of the Sunni school, (if I’m not mistaken), and I wonder if you and he would find common cause, with your respective outlooks on Islam and beyond.

    Peace be to you, Assad al-islam

  392. Including that most execrable toady of zion of all, John McCain. [Rot in Hell]

    Salam Rurik,

    I consider both senators McCain and Graham to be USA heroes, who act like dumb Americans to serve their country. As I said earlier, Crimea was given to Putin by Obama on a Silver Platter. Obama didn’t act alone, he did it with the help of Senator McCain. God rest his soul in peace!

    In my 13 years of living in USA, I found out that the Americans are very knowledge but act dumb, especially to a foreigner. Try to connect dots from the death of President Kennedy, until lately. God rest his soul in peace too!

    [MORE]

    I know that 9/11 happened and I know that no way 19 box cutters would have done it. How it was done? There are lots of theories and to me it doesn’t matter how it was done. You will see people posting here with copy and paste, like they are experts posts after posts. I know Iran is a very weak country, but they have decided to get into it. So, it doesn’t matter to me who downed the plane, how it was downed as all parties are guilty. Period! I don’t sit on a high horse, like some do! And, I don’t make the Jews boogieman! But I keep my mouth shut for the goodness of mankind.

    It seems to me that the only nation that hates Iran more than Israel, is Saudi Arabia. Fellow Muslims! The only one more keen to see Syria dismembered, is Turkey, fellow Muslims.

    Wrong! You seem to consider people brainless. The central recurring theme over and over in Quran is that humans are persecutors and oppressors. But at the same time, the humans are better creation than angels. No fallen angels in Islam. So, when God asked the angels to bow to Adam. They bragged, “are we bow to someone who shed blood on earth”. How did the angels knew that Adam (humans) will shed blood on earth? Unless, there were other humans before Adam and the angels are talking from past experience.

    I don’t want to condemn anyone, but my desire for you is to learn, especially the history of first 50 years Islam after the death of the Prophet. I want you to come down from your high horse.

    The War of Camel, which Wikipedia calls The Battle of Camel was fought by the so called child bride, after the third Caliph Osman (Ottoman) was killed by the Islamic troops and was not allowed to be buried for days. The troops were ragtags, who were fighting wars after wars for 17 years spreading Islam by SWORD on the behest of the third Caliph Osman (Ottoman) for mammon, while the Caliph was busy in nepotism and building palaces.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Camel

    Read the Wikipedia article not with a grain of salt but with a fistful of salt, as it is written by the majority. And, it is Wikipedia!

    Today and earlier people had/have bad view of Islam. They are justified to have this view due to War Crimes committed by Islam. Until the Muslims take responsibility for their aristocracies, there will be further wars. In Shai Islam, we don’t believe any Marja (Ayatollah), meaning Tom, Dick and Harry have the authority to issue a fatwa to fight in the Way of God for defensive purposes, let alone for offensive purposes. Talha believe that even today any Tom, Dick and Harry can issue a fatwa to fight in the Way of God, even for offensive purpose, the fatwa is valid. Don’t take my word, read his posts. Beware, Muslims will fight you tomorrow again, a never ending cycle of wars.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  393. Rurik says:
    @Assad al-islam

    Salaam Assad al-islam,

    I consider both senators McCain and Graham to be USA heroes,

    You have some very interesting ideas, and your passion is impressive.

    I hope that with our continued efforts at understanding and humility, we can both do our part for peace and mutual respect.

    Part of that process will mean agreeing to disagree, as in the quote I provided above.

    God bless.

    Peace.

  394. Parfois1 says:

    I have been busy elsewhere oblivious of the intellectual mayhem left behind from an innocuous remark about ethical absolutism being the guiding light of those seeking the moral truth, Rurik being the torchbearer.

    I am reminded of a cute observation made the hardheaded empiricist who said “Communism is what we create”, that is, existence precedes essence, which flies against the idealist school template forged in Academy by Plato and his disciples and revived by the German school of Kant and Hegel searching for the absolute perfection.

    (A disclaimer; I’m not a philosopher – the closest I came to be one was producing a daughter who is. So please spare me the rod for epistemological errors).

    You can see the lines being drawn between Rurik’s idealism and my existential/materialistic/relativist conception of reality. This of course comes apropos the “lying Iran” for denying the downing of the airliner, and my attempts at exonerating the culprits on the grounds of situation exigencies, besides the fundamental question of what is truth and whether it is knowable. This brings to mind the joke I read sometime ago about a philosopher’s gathering being visited by a fairy who asked the leader to choose one of three gifts: wisdom, beauty or $10 million. Unhesitantly, the dean chose wisdom. What followed was a flash of lightning, a cloud of smoke and the master emerging with stunned countenance. Urged on by a fellow to speak, he said: “I should have taken the money”.

    If we take a walk from the Academy to the Lyceum and back again we can see along the path of dialogues the distant but ever receding Platonic “form” as the unreachable absolute perfection, the model from which we drawn imperfect samples, never the real absolute. If we did reach it, we would destroy it or, at least, would contaminate it with our defects. Better to leave it alone, immutable, absolute, unreachable; a beacon to guide us but not to command unquestioning obedience, especially when matters of, in ascending order, convenience, pragmatism and survival must take precedence over the imperative of absolute ethics and epistemic truth..

    Along that path in our walk we budding philosophers test our assumptions towards the truth by common garden variety questions derived from our experience and existence, as Plato and disciples did without realizing that, by doing so, they were creating the “form” ; therefore, as somebody well-known but little understood among our confreres at UR, said: we “turn Hegel on his head”. It is our understanding based on our existential reality that tests and shapes our idealistic creations of truth, wisdom, beauty and morality. Lying, for instance, comes almost naturally to any self-respecting politician as job requirement.

    We are not intimate with the Iran’s leadership’s knowledge about the myriad of problems they are facing, that is, their reality is superior to ours because it is based on their own experiences, capabilities and understanding of selves and others and their intentions and actions. We cannot impartially judge their reality for it is beyond our grasp and our subjectivism interferes with our judgement.

    We lie and test all the time the boundaries of our morality. “How are you” we ask daily. We never, or seldom, say: “Feel dreadfully miserable, utter nihilistic, lousy, or ecstatically happy”. We go through life gaily lying or hiding the truth about facts our culture deems inappropriate without blinking an eyelid. Sometimes we feel guilty about so much lying and put up a posture of conscientious virtue because we have to live with its gnawing at our self-image and -respect. But when you are commanding a platoon assaulting and enemy stronghold you try as much as you can to deceive them because the end justify the means. When you are commanding the ship of state, especially when you are under siege and your whole nation’s survival is at stake, your imperative is not obedience to abstract moral principles but the harsh reality on the ground, tested and verifiable by centuries or millenia.

    To all contributors to this discussion (of course Rurik stands out for his verve, verbosity, elan and brio, and insights} thank you.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  395. Parfois1 says:

    From me in particular, all you really got was recyclable “Caution” signs and a floating a Fig Leaf which together were meant as a signal to not judge the Iranians who daily get stoned by the ZUS and Israeli Pharisees.

    We, normal readers followers of the black-letter writing signage, are somehow limited by the parameters set by a system of communication inherited from the Gutenberg’s invention, which reduced the symbols to the bare minimum of expediency for mass production. Thrown out were the accessory characters still available to the monks in their scriptoria to illustrate in vivid colour and idiosyncratic taste their production.

    Are you trying to revive the art of illuminated texts in the digital age? The trouble is that we, the pedestrian variety with a foot in the grave, have to adjust our brains to newer symbols and meanings or take a course in Semiotics. You must be forgiving if we miss it sometimes. Anyway it is fun and brakes the tedium of sameness. By the way, where/how do you get the decorations? Cheers.

    • Replies: @Parfois1
  396. Parfois1 says:
    @Parfois1

    Another glitch. Comment above #404 was addressed to ChuckOrloski.

  397. Robjil says:
    @Rurik

    Rurik,

    When I heard it was a Z ukraine, I was quite skeptical about it. Something is very fishy about it being an Z ukrainian plane. In ZUS at the same time, Z ukraine is being used to impeach ( push Trump to Zion Macht Frei). Mh17 was an Z ukraine center event with Russia being demonized. Three times is too much for Z ukraine to be at the center of world politics. The odds are too high for it not being some manipulation by the Zio world.

    Kolomoisky, a Jewish Ukrainian Oligarch, is at the center of all three of these events. He owns a good part of this Z ukraine airline. He pushed for Zelensky to be president in Z ukraine. He was involved in Mh17 as noted in this video.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  398. Rurik says:
    @Parfois1

    First, I must say you had some kind, (if verbose ; ) things to say, and for that, I’m humbled. And I’ll reply to that, that you’re obviously intelligent and erudite. However..

    We lie and test all the time the boundaries of our morality.

    I confess I was appalled at your comments on another thread, that I think do immeasurable damage to your general credibility.

    https://www.unz.com/estriker/inside-the-war-to-take-away-our-free-speech/#comment-3675232

    Nevertheless, thank you for your citations on this thread.

    I suppose time will tell, whether or not Iran’s liberties with veracity will prove to be a mistake, or not.

  399. Rurik says:
    @Robjil

    Kolomoisky, a Jewish Ukrainian Oligarch, is at the center of all three of these events.

    Z ukraine center event with Russia being demonized.

    Who can possibly doubt that Ukrainian, ((Alexander Vindman)) didn’t betray his oath to serve the Commander in Chief of the United States, because he was alarmed that Trump was holding back military aid to Ukraine, which is fighting a zio-war (using goyim cannon fodder, of course ; ) against Russia.

    We all know where Vindman’s loyalties lie, and why he would betray his Commander, and his oath to honor and serve the Constitution. That shit is all fine and good, until it conflicts with serving Jewish supremacist goals.

    So yea, I suspect that this Ukrainian jet, full to the brim with ethnic Iranians, and taking off from Tehran airport, immediately following an international uproar over the assassination/murder, may very well have been tinkered with to make it look like a threat to Iran’s SAMs systems.

    A bunch of Iranians get killed, a few Ukrainian goyim, (“a trifle”) Iran gets embarrassed, Ukraine (and Canada and others) get to demand hundreds of millions in reparations from a reeling Iran, gets the whole world to condemn Iran’s actions, right on the heals of the assassination, when Iran had the sympathy of the world.

    It could not have played out for Zion better, than if they had orchestrated it themselves.

    Hmmm..

    • Agree: Robjil
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