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Who Made Coronavirus? Was It the U.S., Israel or China Itself?
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The most commonly reported mainstream media account of the creation of the Coronavirus suggests that it was derived from an animal borne microorganism found in a wild bat that was consumed by an ethnic Chinese resident of Wuhan. But there appears to be some evidence to dispute that in that adjacent provinces in China, where wild bats are more numerous, have not experienced major outbreaks of the disease. Because of that and other factors, there has also been considerable speculation that the Coronavirus did not occur naturally through mutation but rather was produced in a laboratory, possibly as a biological warfare agent.

Several reports suggest that there are components of the virus that are related to HIV that could not have occurred naturally. If it is correct that the virus had either been developed or even produced to be weaponized it would further suggest that its escape from the Wuhan Institute of Virology Lab and into the animal and human population could have been accidental. Technicians who work in such environments are aware that “leaks” from laboratories occur frequently.

There is, of course and inevitably, another theory. There has been some speculation that as the Trump Administration has been constantly raising the issue of growing Chinese global competitiveness as a direct threat to American national security and economic dominance, it must might be possible that Washington has created and unleashed the virus in a bid to bring Beijing’s growing economy and military might down a few notches. It is, to be sure, hard to believe that even the Trump White House would do something so reckless, but there are precedents for that type of behavior. In 2005-9 the American and Israeli governments secretly developed a computer virus called Stuxnet, which was intended to damage the control and operating systems of Iranian computers being used in that country’s nuclear research program. Admittedly Stuxnet was intended to damage computers, not to infect or kill human beings, but concerns that it would propagate and move to infect computers outside Iran proved to be accurate as it spread to thousands of PCs outside Iran, in countries as far flung as China, Germany, Kazakhstan and Indonesia.

Inevitably there is an Israeli story that just might shed some light on what has been going on in China. Scientists at Israel’s Galilee Research Institute are now claiming that they will have a vaccine against coronavirus in a few weeks which will be ready for distribution and use within 90 days. The institute is claiming that it has been engaged in four years of research on avian coronavirus funded by Israel’s Ministries of Science & Technology and Agriculture. They are claiming that the virus is similar to the version that has infected humans, which has led to breakthroughs in development through genetic manipulation, but some scientists are skeptical that a new vaccine could be produced so quickly to prevent a virus that existed only recently. They also have warned that even if a vaccine is developed it would normally have to be tested for side effects, a process that normally takes over a year and includes using it on infected humans.

If one even considers it possible that the United States had a hand in creating the coronavirus at what remains of its once extensive biological weapons research center in Ft Detrick Maryland, it is very likely that Israel was a partner in the project. Helping to develop the virus would also explain how Israeli scientists have been able to claim success at creating a vaccine so quickly, possibly because the virus and a treatment for it were developed simultaneously.

In any event, there are definite political ramifications to the appearance of the coronavirus, and not only in China. In the United States President Donald Trump is already being blamed for lying about the virus and there are various scenarios in mainstream publications speculating over the possible impact on the election in 2020. If the economy sinks together with the stock market, it will reflect badly on Trump whether or not he is actually at fault. If containment and treatment of the disease itself in the United States does not go well, there could also be a considerable backlash, particularly as the Democrats have been promoting improving health care. One pundit argues, however, that disease and a sinking economy will not matter as long as there is a turnaround before the election, but a lot can happen in the next eight months.

And then there is the national security/foreign policy issue as seen from both Jerusalem and Washington. It is difficult to explain why coronavirus has hit one country in particular other than China very severely. That country is Iran, the often-cited enemy of both the U.S. and Israel. The number of Iran’s coronavirus cases continues to increase, with more positive tests confirmed among government officials last Saturday. There were 205 new coronavirus cases, bringing the government claimed total to 593 with 43 fatalities, though unofficial hospital reports suggest that the deaths are actually well over 100. That’s the highest number of deaths from the virus outside of China.

No less than five Iranian Members of Parliament have also tested positive amid a growing number of officials that have contracted the disease. Iran’s vice president Masoumeh Ebtekar and deputy health minister Iraj Harirchi had also previously been confirmed with the virus.

The usual suspects in the United States are delighted to learn of the Iranian deaths. Mark Dubowitz, Executive Director of the Washington-based but Israeli government connected Foundation for Defense of Democracies (FDD) boasted on twitter Tuesday that “Coronavirus has done what American economic sanctions could not: shut down non-oil exports.” An Iranian government spokesman responded that “It’s shameful and downright inhuman to cheer for a deadly Virus to spread – and enjoy seeing people suffer for it…” Dubowitz followed up with an additional taunt, that Tehran has “spread terrorism” in the Middle East and “now it’s spreading the coronavirus.”

So, you have your choice. Coronavirus occurred naturally, or it came out of a lab in China itself or even from Israel or the United States. If one suspects Israel and/or the United States, the intent clearly would have been to create a biological weapon that would damage two nations that have been designated as enemies. But the coronavirus cannot be contained easily and it is clear that many thousands of people will die from it. Unfortunately, as with Stuxnet, once the genie is out of the bottled it is devilishly hard to induce it to go back in.

(Republished from Strategic Culture Foundation by permission of author or representative)
 
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  1. Ron Unz says:

    I’ll take the liberty of republishing a few of my own recent comments on the possible bioweapon aspect of the Coronavirus story:

    As of right now, I haven’t seen any solid evidence that the coronavirus is a bioweapon. But let’s assume that it is.

    It was released at the absolute worst time for China, just before Lunar New Year, when it could have easily spread throughout the country. Let’s say it was released during the worst ten-day window of a given year. The likelihood of this happening randomly (e.g. due to an accidental bioweapon release) is less than 3%, meaning that there’s a 97% the release was non-accidental.

    Consider also that the outbreak occurred in Wuhan, just after 300 American military personnel had visited that city. That surely further depresses the odds of a random bioweapon release.

    So I’d say that if the coronavirus was a bioweapon, the likelihood of a non-random release is something like 99%, which I find pretty persuasive amid all the complex and conflicting claims and arguments.

    https://www.unz.com/article/how-to-yellow-cake-a-tragedy/#comment-3743817

    Consider a particularly ironic outcome of this situation, not particularly likely but certainly possible…

    Everyone knows that America’s ruling elites are criminal, crazy, and also extremely incompetent.

    So perhaps the coronavirus outbreak was indeed a deliberate biowarfare attack against China, hitting that nation just before Lunar New Year, the worst possible time to produce a permanent nationwide pandemic. However, the PRC responded with remarkable speed and efficiency, implementing by far the largest quarantine in human history, and the deadly disease now seems to be in decline there.

    Meanwhile, the disease naturally leaks back into the US, and despite all the advance warning, our totally incompetent government mismanages the situation, producing a huge national health disaster, and the collapse of our economy and decrepit political system.

    As I said, not particularly likely, but certainly a very fitting end to the American Empire…

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/corona-will-kill-millions-crater-the-world-economy/#comment-3739730

    And I’m still very suspicious about the circumstances of the outbreak. It hit China just before Lunar New Year, the absolutely worst possible time, and the epicenter was Wuhan, a key transport hub. It really seems an *astonishing* coincidence that 300 American military servicemen had been visiting Wuhan just prior to the outbreak, at a peak of international tension.

    How would Americans react if 300 PRC officers had visited Chicago, and immediately afterwards, a deadly new plague broke out in that city, with a major risk of spreading throughout the country?

    Isn’t it also rather suspicious that Iran has been hit so hard? So the two countries in the world most subject to current American hostility just tend to be especially “unlucky”…

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/corona-will-kill-millions-crater-the-world-economy/#comment-3734861

    Well, supposedly something like 25,000 Chinese live and work in Italy, so a secondary outbreak there is hardly so surprising.

    On the other hand, I’m not sure how many Chinese are Shia Muslim pilgrims to Qom, Iran.

    By contrast, if someone wanted to deliberately spread a bioweapon within the pro-Iran Shia Muslim community, as a leading pilgrimage Qom would be an ideal release target location.

    None of this proves anything, but it seems *highly* suspicious…

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/corona-will-kill-millions-crater-the-world-economy/#comment-3736061

  2. A123 says:

    … escape from the Wuhan Institute of Virology Lab and into the animal and human population could have been accidental. Technicians who work in such environments are aware that “leaks” from laboratories occur frequently.

    An escape from a local lab is much more likely than a convoluted conspiracy theory explanation.

    The U.S. had a major trade win with the China “Phase 1” agreement. There is no plausible reason to believe that the U.S. administration would interfere with this success. Given the importance of the U.S. economy on U.S. elections, the timing of the outbreak is also inconsistent with deliberate U.S. action.

    For any “deliberate release” theory, the action would have to be taken by a group that is an enemy of both China and the U.S..

    PEACE 😇

  3. Like the JFK Magic bullet theory or the demolition of WTC building 7, we may never know with any certainty, where the virus originated. That genetic engineering is a reality with CRISPr technology, one would lean, like the Tower of Pisa, towards the theory that it is man-made. Any mutations will be God-made, though.

    • Replies: @sally
    , @Anonymous
  4. Realist says:

    Who Made Coronavirus? Was It the U.S., Israel or China Itself?

    At this time it is not known if Covid-19 was genetically engineered.

  5. Realist says:
    @Ron Unz

    Well, supposedly something like 25,000 Chinese live and work in Italy, so a secondary outbreak there is hardly so surprising.

    A possibility the ACE2 gene is a key:

    Persians are closer, genetically, to Europeans than East Asians, but that does not preclude the possibility that a number of Persians carry the ACE2 gene. It also appears that Italians are more susceptible to Covid-19, but they as well may have an increased propensity to carry the ACE2 gene…possibly due to the numerous cross cultural invasions over the last few thousand years.

    I would like to know the percent of the ACE2 gene in Northwest Europeans, East Asians, Persians and Italians.

    Here is one study. Although it states there is not enough data of the distribution of ACE2 to make a a judgement.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41421-020-0147-1

    • Replies: @Alfred
    , @reezy
    , @anon
  6. The article is very interesting and well-written.

    It is speculation, of course, but it is very thoughtful speculation, and it is entirely plausible.

    The very fact that anyone can say that shows how low America has fallen in esteem and regard for its honesty and trustworthiness.

    It tears up treaties and attacks nations for no good reason. It steals oil. It steals overseas assets of others. It deprives children of food and medicine. It shows almost no regard for rule of law.

    It proposes an obscene plan for permanently consigning Palestinians to Israeli Indian Reservations with no rights and no real citizenship and calls it a “peace plan.”

    Its Secretary of State resembles in every detail a gangster, and he brags and laughs about lying, cheating, and stealing.

    Its President is the most grotesque figure ever to hold such a high office – foul-mouthed, ignorant, and cowardly.

    So, yes, the United States is indeed today quite capable of using bio-warfare.

    Maybe some hard evidence, one way or another, will emerge, particularly when people are asking publicly questions like this.

  7. @A123

    You neglect what we can all see so clearly displayed today by the US, pure malevolence towards China.

    And towards Iran.

    People who hate can’t be counted on to act rationally.

    • Replies: @Moi
    , @Flubber
  8. Trinity says:

    Who knows? Could be natural but it is HIGHLY UNLIKELY. Israel and America look much more suspect than China IMO. Of course every other narrative other than the “official narrative” will be considered “conspiracy theories” cooked up by kooks, “anti-Semites,” and other wack jobs.

  9. lysias says:

    Western elites could also have another motive besides hurting China and Iran, namely, reducing spending on “entitlement” programs like Social Security and Medicare because of the coronavirus’s disprolortionate effects on the old and the sickly.

    The people ruling the West now are psychopaths.

    • Agree: GazaPlanet, druid55
  10. The truth is likely to out.

    In particular, it may out if Israel is a culprit. They seem to find it hard to resist the urge to kvell. Witness how they boasted of their role in promoting the coup in Egypt.

    • Replies: @Alfred
  11. The virus emerged in live animal market in Wuhan where innocent animals such as puppies and kittens are tortured,dissected and burnt alive .
    The Chinese government bears responsibility for this atrocity for they knew of dangers of allowing such savagery and and barbarity against animals to take place and yet allowed it to go on .

    This is NOT a biological warfare but is result of sadistic behavior of part of Chinese population and their sick and sadistic behavior VS innocent animals. Karma is a bitch. I do not feel sorry for them.

    The Chinese government MUST stop this barbarity and savagery of eating unsuitable animals such as dogs, cats ,wolf pups and any other moving creature,minus humans, or else it will face another outbreak.

    • LOL: Alfred
    • Replies: @anon
    , @Moi
    , @Anon
  12. Delta G says:

    Is the Internet a Great Thing or an Unmitigated Disaster. Guess it depends on your perspective and the topic at large. One thing the Internet and sites like this have done is to give equal voice and as such credibility to Morons and Buffoons compared to Experts and Intellectuals.

    While Dr. Phil has a Ph.D. in Political Science or whatever, he does not have a Doctoral Degree in Biological or Medical Science. To the Lay person it seems possible and maybe even reasonable that this normal outbreak of a Corona-virus could come from some Laboratory either by accident or with willful intent.

    But to the Biologically and or Medically Trained person, it is Bull Shit.

    All Corona-virus outbreaks come from a cross species infection. There is no detectable reservoir of this type of virus in humans but there is in many other mammalian species.

    Read the Workshop published in 2004 by the Experts.

    Learning from SARS: Preparing for the Next Disease Outbreak: Workshop Summary.
    Show details
    Institute of Medicine (US) Forum on Microbial Threats; Knobler S, Mahmoud A, Lemon S, et al., editors.
    Washington (DC): National Academies Press (US); 2004.

    The emergence of severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) illustrates that coronaviruses (CoVs) may quiescently emerge from possible animal reservoirs and can cause potentially fatal disease in humans, as previously recognized for animals.

    The medical community was amazed by the emergence of a new coronavirus associated with SARS in healthy adults in 2003.

    Human Corona virus infections most often cause the common cold and are mild, but historical fact shows that other variants of the virus can be lethal in both reservoir animal and HUMANS.

    Of course it could still come from some lab. And now tell us Dr. Phil what you want Santa to bring you this Christmas too.

    Nature is much more inventive than anyone in a lab.

  13. Han 21 says:

    I’ve seen remarkably little commentary on the role of the Harvard Chemistry Chair Charles Lieber, who was arrested on January 28, 2020. Lieber’s entire research team consisted of Chinese grad students, 2 of whom were also arrested in Boston on the same day.

    Lieber, as per WaPo, was “under contract as part of the Thousand Talents Plan,” and had helped create the virology lab in Wuhan. Lieber was paid $1.5M by the Chinese government, in addition to a $50k stipend/month and other expenses. His expertise was in nanovirology, and an article from over 10 years ago showed he had designed a nanotubule that could cross a cell membrane and deliver instructions directly to the cell’s genome.

    “Separately, the Justice Department charged Yanqing Ye, a student in Boston University’s departments of physics, chemistry and biomedical engineering, with lying on her visa application and failing to disclose that she was a lieutenant in China’s People’s Liberation Army. FBI agents found evidence that she was carrying out tasks for her military superiors, such as conducting research, assessing U.S. military websites and sending U.S. documents to China, the Justice Department said.”

    “The third case announced Tuesday was against Zaosong Zheng, who worked as a cancer researcher at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center in Boston from 2018 to 2019. Zheng is accused of trying to smuggle 21 vials of biological research material back to China in a sock in his luggage. When he was stopped at the airport and questioned about the vials, he allegedly told investigators that he wanted to use them to conduct research in China.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/fbi-charges-harvard-chemist-two-others-in-chinese-research-cases/2020/01/28/f5e09086-41ee-11ea-b5fc-eefa848cde99_story.html

    The radio silence on this arrest, even on dissident sites such as this one, is extraordinary, given the exponential increase in COV19 cases in the West. That, coupled with the US military exercise in Wuhan 2 weeks before the outbreak (average viral incubation time 2 weeks), and the apparent attempt by the Chinese government at covering up initial data on the virus obtained in Hubei Province, does make one curious. But the high concentration of cases amongst Iranian officials is rather glaring. As far as I know, China has no beef with Iran.

  14. Neo says:
    @Ron Unz

    What sources are there to confirm the presence of US military personnel in the Wuhan province just prior to the outbreak? I’ve tried looking for something on my own to no avail. That would be a really good resource to have when people question the bioweapons origin theory.

  15. YOU LOSE says:

    CIA has two problems: (1) dwindling advantage in hard power due to a missile gap and degeneration of its industrial base, and (2) the pincers of international criminal law and state responsibility for internationally wrongful acts. CIA has adapted by stressing unattribuable forms of warfare: biological weapons, covert support of armed irregulars, and, of course, cyber sabotage:

    http://blogs.360.cn/post/APT-C-39_CIA_EN.html

    Sooner or later these sneak attacks get attributed, as with APT-C-39 saboteurs and Erkin Alptekin’s fronts. COVID-19 is prima facie aggression, and it won’t take long to trace it to its grotesquely unnatural source. When these CIA sneak attacks have been attributed to China’s satisfaction, the response will follow the PLA’s unrestricted warfare principles:

    http://cryptome.info/0001/cuw.htm

    Upon decapitation of the CIA regime, multilateral reconstruction will build capacity with transitional justice. We will have input to the sentencing of Gina and Bob Gates. I vote death of 1,000 cuts. Dibs on the 1st cut!

    • Replies: @UK
  16. lysias says:

    The Wikipedia page on “2019 Military World Games” confirms that there were participants from the U.S.

    Strangely, the UK did not participate.

    • Replies: @Ed Nguyen
  17. @A123

    An escape from a local lab is much more likely than a convoluted conspiracy theory explanation.

    Perhaps, but conspiracy theories are more riveting and entertaining. Plus, given the number of conspiracy theories that turned out to be conspiracy fact, your assertion is not as likely as you might want to believe.

    • Agree: Beefcake the Mighty
  18. It’s quite a stretch to concoct a set of circumstances where a government or substantial group would believe they could profit or benefit from the release of this virus.

    Obviously, some make that stretch, but the more likely scenario is that an experiment was accidentally released.

    This kind of accident* has been headed our way for a long time. This is only a precursor.

    *ACCIDENT-N, An inevitable occurrence due to the action of immutable natural laws. – A. Bierce: The Devil’s Dictionary

    • Replies: @another fred
  19. Ron Unz says:
    @Neo

    What sources are there to confirm the presence of US military personnel in the Wuhan province just prior to the outbreak? I’ve tried looking for something on my own to no avail. That would be a really good resource to have when people question the bioweapons origin theory.

    Sure, 300 American military were in Wuhan for the Military World Games in late October. Here’s a link to the original Chinese announcement:

    http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-10/15/c_138473332.htm

    Since it was a high-profile public event, there are lots of other references on the Internet. Apparently the U.S. didn’t do very well, not winning anything like the number of Gold Medals of several other participants.

  20. @another fred

    BTW, those familiar with my history here know that I believe that there will be some virus, some time. I just saying it does not make sense for it to be this virus at this time.

  21. Ron Unz says:
    @Han 21

    I’ve seen remarkably little commentary on the role of the Harvard Chemistry Chair Charles Lieber, who was arrested on January 28, 2020. Lieber’s entire research team consisted of Chinese grad students, 2 of whom were also arrested in Boston on the same day….The radio silence on this arrest, even on dissident sites such as this one, is extraordinary, given the exponential increase in COV19 cases in the West. That, coupled with the US military exercise in Wuhan 2 weeks before the outbreak (average viral incubation time 2 weeks)

    Sure, I agree that the absolutely coincidental timing of the Lieber arrest seems *extraordinarily* suspicious. I pointed this out in a couple of comments last month:

    Frankly, I’d never heard of Lieber except as a chemist, but when I Googled his name plus viruses, a whole bunch of things came up. And he gets dragged off in shackles *exactly* at the moment the huge viral outbreak in China is reaching the national headlines.

    Seems like an *awfully* big coincidence to me.

    It really wouldn’t surprise me if Lieber had been discussing the possibility of Coronavirus being a US biowarfare attack against China with some of his friends on the phone or Email and the NSA or whatever found out about it and decided to nip such academic speculation in the bud…

    https://www.unz.com/article/how-to-yellow-cake-a-tragedy/#comment-3715247

    It’s also intriguing that Charles Lieber, a very high-ranking Harvard professor with strong China ties, was suddenly arrested and dragged off in shackles for what amounts to some sort of technical issue of misreporting his Chinese funding from many years ago.

    Frankly, I’ve *never* heard of anything like that happening before to a mainstream academic, especially for some technical-reporting violation. I wonder whether it isn’t just meant to intimidate all American academics who might consider voicing their suspicions about the Coronavirus outbreak. Maybe the NSA even discovered that Lieber was expressing some personal doubts about the official Coronavirus story in his emails or phone calls.

    After all, if a likely future Harvard Nobel Laureate can be dragged off in chains and face many years in prison for a supposed financial-reporting-violation, I’d think that lots of ordinary professors would think twice before questioning the Coronavirus story with MSM journalists…

    https://www.unz.com/article/how-to-yellow-cake-a-tragedy/#comment-3715020

    • Thanks: Iris, John Chuckman
    • Replies: @sally
    , @Ano4
    , @Ano4
  22. A123 says:
    @Neo

    I didn’t know about the Military World Games until Mr. Unz brought them up.

    https://www.activistpost.com/2020/02/un-troops-featured-in-world-military-games-in-wuhan-china-weeks-before-coronavirus-outbreak.html

    However, I come to the exact opposite conclusion based on the same facts.

    It would be terrible field craft to use known U.S. Military personnel to smuggle and release a virus. Chinese internal security would have been monitoring foreign troops. The chances of being caught would be absurdly high.

    Worse yet, thousands of international participants were present from multiple countries. A deployment error or malfunction could allow the virus to “Go Global” immediately.

    Thus, the presence of Americans and other international travellers in Wuhan makes it *less likely* that the current U.S. administration is involved.

    PEACE 😇

  23. They are looking for a way to Microchip every individual in the world so a new vaccine for a new virus strain is the perect tool for that.

    Looking for a way to reduce the population by use of vaccinations is also on the cards. Straight from the mouth of one of those proponents in the below 32min Video.
    (well worth a watch)

    Dr Graham Downing.

    Bill Gates warns world is ‘tragically unprepared’ to stop global pandemics such as ebola or zika.’ – (Daily Mirror)

    ‘Bill Gates warns tens of millions could be killed by bio-terrorism’ – (The Guardian)

    Mr Gates’ public Health approach has been challenged in many countries including, most recently, India where his organisation was asked to leave that country.
    Are Public Health measures helping or hindering the Human race; are they preventing illness or, as some contend, causing more harm than good?
    Well, let’s take a look at the scientific evidence!

  24. Poor Lieber, he’s the Lee Harvey Oswald of this coup de main, the Tamerlan Tsarnaev of this attack on the civilian population, the Hatfill (or Ivins) of this biowarfare attack. When the first six bullshit propaganda stories fall apart, the attack will get blamed on a patsy, a bog-standard CIA lone nut, in this case Lieber. Meantime they’ll keep the poor shnook in ADMAX so he can’t blurt out any more obvious stuff, because official Stories 1, 2, and 3 are already down the tubes:

    https://alethonews.com/2020/03/05/chinas-coronavirus-a-shocking-update-did-the-virus-originate-in-the-us/

    CIA blamed it on pot vaping when they first broke it out, so you had to get baked on gummy bears that taste like shit. Oh the humanity!

    Bob Gates is Patient Zero. He cooked it up in between buttfucking tearful Boy Scouts.

  25. @A123

    Possible that the Soldiers were given inoculations before they went to China with the pretence of them getting vaccinated to prevent them picking up a virus?

    Once in China the soldiers started to shed the virus spreading it to others.
    Not the first time that soldiers have been used as Guinea pigs.

    Military whistleblower Sherrie Saunders shares the truth about vaccinations given in the military.

  26. Mistaron says:

    Isn’t it odd that asking Google ‘how many white people have died from Coronavirus’ doesn’t return a direct result?
    Could this be a targeted virus? And if it is, how surprising is it that Iranians and Chinese have suffered the greatest incidence of mortality? Do they have an unusual genetic commonality? Speculation and coincidence is all that we seem to have at the moment. It surely isn’t any more conspiratorial than Netanyahu’s shifting ‘evidence’ for imminent Iranian nukes.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @Ralphie in WPB
  27. Neo says:
    @Ron Unz

    Awesome, appreciate the source! Surely just a coincidence those Americans being in China 2 weeks before the first reported case of Coronavirus…

  28. The problem with the theory of the USA using Corona to hamstring the Chinese economy is that many of the companies operating there are USA owned and the bulk of their annual revenue is derived from products made there that are then sold to the world at large. Why would they do this to themselves?

  29. anon[228] • Disclaimer says:

    Mark Dubowitz, Executive Director of the Washington-based but Israeli government connected Foundation for Defense of Democracies (FDD) boasted on twitter Tuesday that “Coronavirus has done what American economic sanctions could not: shut down non-oil exports.” An Iranian government spokesman responded that “It’s shameful and downright inhuman to cheer for a deadly Virus to spread – and enjoy seeing people suffer for it…” Dubowitz followed up with an additional taunt, that Tehran has “spread terrorism” in the Middle East and “now it’s spreading the coronavirus.”

    Only a psycho Zionist can say this and get away

    BTWis he projecting? Israel has been exporting terror for decades against other countries including US NZ UK and Arab . Can they now export the virus?

    • Agree: JamesinNM
  30. Ron Unz says:
    @Mistaron

    Could this be a targeted virus? And if it is, how surprising is it that Iranians and Chinese have suffered the greatest incidence of mortality? Do they have an unusual genetic commonality?

    Actually, a commenter on a different thread just claimed that the sequenced genomes of the Iran and China viruses are different, which might explain the puzzle:

    https://www.unz.com/article/its-official-chinese-scientists-find-genetic-explanation-for-coronavirus-discriminating-by-race/#comment-3753648

    Perhaps the differences are just the tiny, trivial changes you’d expect in a few weeks of viral mutation. But if they’re much more substantial than that, let alone if they produce different impacts upon different racial groups, that’s extremely, *extremely* suspicious…

  31. @BDS Always

    An interesting conjecture, for sure.

  32. A123 says:
    @BDS Always

    Possible that the Soldiers were given inoculations before they went to China with the pretence of them getting vaccinated to prevent them picking up a virus?

    Not Possible. None of the U.S. troops have gotten sick, so they were not intentionally infected for use a delivery mechanism.

    It also would be fantastically obvious when international visitors became sick before the locals, as incubation periods are somewhat consistent.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @BDS Always
    , @dogbumbreath
  33. lysias says:

    The Aletho News article linked in 24 says researchers have found that the strains of coronavirus in Iran and China are different, leading to the conclusion that neither country’s strain comes from the other’s. Instead, coronavirus derives from the country in which all five strains, including the two in Iran and China, are found, namely, the U.S.

    I’m not a scientist, I’m a classicist, but this line of reasoning is very familiar to me from manuscript studies and from historical linguistics.

    • Agree: Tor597
  34. @Ron Unz

    “A fitting end” indeed. Capping off 70+ years of the Ivy League Idiots of the “Intelligence” Community shooting its own legs off (and ours as well).

    • Replies: @getaclue
  35. Lot says:
    @Ron Unz

    “ How would Americans react if 300 PRC officers had visited Chicago, and immediately afterwards”

    I am aware visits of Chinese people overlap with bad things all the time. Because I am not a crazy person, I do not imply those Chinese people committed mass murder.

    And the “300” is a red herring since a single person or small team could spread a virus around a city.

  36. Realist says:

    It is, to be sure, hard to believe that even the Trump White House would do something so reckless, but there are precedents for that type of behavior.

    If indeed the US government is responsible for engineering Covi-19, why do you assume Trump or the White House initiated or knows about it?

  37. Isn’t it interesting how you types cry and scream about the supposed evils and immorality of abortion – seem to take no issue with or outright ignore the comments of Andrew Sabisky on the benefits of modafinil being “worth a dead kid a year”?

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/18239605.andrew-sabisky-said-drug-worth-a-dead-kid-year/

    https://www.unz.com/article/u-k-s-repulsive-reality-reflections-on-leftist-witch-hunting-and-the-andrew-sabisky-affair/

    It’s almost as if fascism has no real basis in consistent beliefs.

    • Replies: @Johnny Smoggins
  38. @Ron Unz

    Larry Romanoff’s latest article, whose footnotes I have not yet checked, is perhaps the most interesting of all, in that it points to a US coverup of a domestic outbreak prior to China’s

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/china-coronavirus-shocking-update/5705196

    • Agree: 2stateshmustate
    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @Lot
    , @Iris
  39. @A123

    It is if it is created to only attack a certain race?

    • Replies: @A123
  40. @Ron Unz

    I have heard some commenters say that because the US didn’t do well in the games, the 300 “athletes” were actually bioweapon specialists or something along the lines of them not being genuine athletes being sent out to win.

    But if you look at the medal tables for the past military games, you will see that America always does woefully bad in them.

    And as another commenter says, releasing the virus in this manner would be a very silly thing to do as Chinese domestic security agencies surely kept close tabs on all foreign personnel, especially those from hostile countries like America. It would be too risky and the fallout from being caught would be absolutely huge.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @naill
  41. A123 says:
    @BDS Always

    It is if it is created to only attack a certain race?

    Fact based science says that is impossible.

    ACE2 may make Asians more susceptible, but that does not mean Caucasians are immune. And, this racial impact may not actually exist.

    There appears to be a statistically significant correlation between tobacco use frequency, tobacco use method, and severity of COVID19 symptoms.

    PEACE 😇

  42. anon[228] • Disclaimer says:

    Israel’s Ethnic Weapon?

    Israel is reportedly developing a biological weapon that would harm Arabs while leaving Jews unaffected, according to a report in London’s Sunday Times. The report, citing Israeli military and western intelligence sources, says that scientists are trying to identify distinctive genes carried by Arabs to create a genetically modified bacterium or virus.
    https://www.wired.com/1998/11/israels-ethnic-weapon/

    Israel has been thinking the unthinkable for decades . Only a snake possibly could have thought that way if it had that kind of cognitive ability .

    • Replies: @Caruthers
  43. SteveK9 says:
    @A123

    Absolutely. The lab in Wuhan is very close to the food market (200 meters?). And, it doesn’t mean this was a bioweapon. It is simply research. In fact, I would have to search again, but there was a statement a few years back by the head of the lab (I think), that they were looking at various ‘chimeric’ engineered viruses. The idea is to look for ways to combat things that might arise naturally. There was also a statement that this work was risky. There is a preprint from a Chinese researcher that discusses one Scientists experience with contamination from bats, and the steps he took to quarantine himself. Not every one might be as careful.

    Anyway, no need to invoke evil conspiracies. A virology lab, researching coronaviruses, is right at the center of the initial outbreak. Why is it hard to believe in a loss of containment?

    If that is the case, and I think this likely, then China will really owe their people and the World an apology. If you decide to do research this dangerous, you better know what you are doing.

    • Replies: @animalogic
  44. Ron Unz says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Larry Romanoff’s latest article, whose footnotes I have not yet checked, is perhaps the most interesting of all, in that it points to a US coverup of a domestic outbreak prior to China’s

    Well, I just lightly skimmed through the piece, but the notion that the US itself had a major Coronavirus outbreak back in 2019 seems pretty implausible to me.

    By all accounts, the virus is extremely contagious. So any such American outbreak would surely have resulted in many hundreds of thousands if not millions of cases. Enough people, at least the elderly, would have become gravely ill or died that we would have noticed it.

    I suppose it’s possible that Trump is correct and that the Coronavirus is just a MSM hoax. But otherwise, I find it very unlikely there was an American epidemic last year and no one noticed it.

    My guess is that this is just some sort of poor quality government propaganda, maybe by the PRC.

  45. Ron Unz says:
    @Just passing through

    And as another commenter says, releasing the virus in this manner would be a very silly thing to do as Chinese domestic security agencies surely kept close tabs on all foreign personnel, especially those from hostile countries like America.

    I think you’ve gotten things entirely backwards. Having 300 American military officers visiting Wuhan and doing sight-seeing around the city and its open air food markets would have been perfect cover for maybe a couple of them to be releasing the Coronavirus.

    Obviously, under normal circumstances I’d assume that very, very few American military personnel are wandering around major Chinese cities, and these might be watched. But with 300 of them there, presumably along with many thousands of military officers from other countries, such surveillance would have been unusually difficult.

    Anyway, my argument is based on the strong implausibility of believing that the two events were entirely unconnected and coincidental, which, after all, is the “accidental leak” theory.

    • Replies: @Suggma J. Balzach
  46. @Ron Unz

    Address the point, coward.

    • Troll: Antiwar7
  47. @Mistaron

    What about my paisans in Italy?

    • Replies: @glib
  48. lysias says:
    @Ron Unz

    A brother of mine aged 84 died of pneumonia on or about Feb. 10 in New Jersey. From what I heard about his condition and medical developments, it sure sounded like what we later learned about Wuhan coronavirus. He had been being treated for cancer for 14 years, so his immune system was severely compromised. Shortly before Christmas, he went to Sloan Kettering in Manhattan for consultations, and a few days later he collapsed and had to be sent to a hospital. He never really recovered and weeks later died. His fortyish son, who had spent a lot of time with him in hospital, came down with a severe cold that incapacitated him for a week.

    If what my brother died of was the novel coronavirus, as I now strongly suspect, that means it was already spreading on Manhattan in late December.

    • Replies: @Sasha
  49. Lot says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Viruses don’t have a lot of DNA so are not too hard to sequence and produce genealogies by comparing them. The results are consistent with it arising and then spreading from Wuhan, with Iran and Italy the main secondary sources.

    • Replies: @Alfred
  50. Canucky says:

    As an answer to your question, who is behind this ”engineered” threat, may I suggest this excellent article from Mr Chossudowsky:

    Coronavirus: Remember the “Fake” 2009 H1N1 Swine Flu Pandemic: Manipulating the Data to Justify a Worldwide Public Health Emergency

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-h1n1-swine-flu-pandemic-manipulating-the-data-to-justify-a-worldwide-public-health-emergency/14901

    • Thanks: Thomasina, Meimou
  51. Canucky says:

    Who? I’d say the NATO and Chatham House, with their bio-chemo weapons developed at Porton Down. (Remember, the mysterious Skripal Case and the Porta Down’s and Kosova‘s nurse Colonel McCourt).

    The agenda is, obviously, to make China’s economy crash.

    Because: Mother Britain wants to help her little kids of Wall Streets re-engineer the petro-dollar though inclusion of the Yuan (and the IMF by IMPOSING her view of democracy to the European Union by force or persuasion or sanctions or intimidation, as usual). Britain, which has been hijacked by Zionists, is now an exemplary democracy.

    See what the Royal Institute has to say to Europeans about democracy on Chathamhouse.org

    Inside Porton Down: Britain’s Secret Weapons

    ”Dr Michael Mosley investigates Britain’s most secretive and controversial military research base, Porton Down, on its 100th anniversary. He comes face to face with chemical and biological weapons old and new, reveals the truth about shocking animal and human testing, and discovers how the latest science and technology are helping to defend us against terrorist attacks and rogue nations. ”

    • Thanks: Nonny Mouse
    • Replies: @BDS Always
  52. vot tak says:

    The israeli/zionazi bioweapon angle is the one to prioritize, in my opinion. Iran may be the main target, with China/East Asian disruptions being a secondary goal. By israel/zionazi I don’t just mean israel, but its colonial assets, especially the american ones, as well.

    As for trump, from its disingenuous rhetoric and actions, it is 100% certain this treasonous human doppelganger is in the loop.

    • Agree: Trinity
  53. Sasha says:
    @lysias

    This story (especially the comments) are interesting. Check the 4th one down when sorted by “best” – from the nurse. The replies to that suggest that this is indeed the case.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8075633/First-British-victim-25-describes-coronavirus.html#comments

  54. utu says:
    @Ron Unz

    My guess is that this is just some sort of poor quality government propaganda, maybe by the PRC.

    I have commented on it few days ago:

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/corona-will-kill-millions-crater-the-world-economy/#comment-3743124

    This new Chinese story-theory is that the US has had coronavirus epidemic since September 2019 and there were 40,000 deaths and apparently nobody has really noticed. Life was going normal as 40,000 deaths was within expectation for a flu season. So everything would be great except that the CCP began panicking and instead of riding the epidemic as Americans did they decided to stop it with extraordinary measures by going medieval on it. (see NYT: To Take On the Coronavirus, Go Medieval on It). And now everybody believes that the epidemic originated in China. Why did the CCP cried wolf? Just to save 100,000 lives? They lose 100,000 lives every year to various flu like diseases. They could have pretended that everything was normal just like Americans.

    The story-theory does not seem to work too well for China unless it is reinforced with a crucial element that the virus was much more harmful to Chinese and thus the CCP had no choice but to go medieval on it.

  55. Anonymous[266] • Disclaimer says:

    I’m willing to believe this COVID-19 could have its origin in a plot by Western intelligence agencies but I can’t believe they’d allow Trump in on the plan. Not only because they view Trump as the enemy but because they are trying to use this COVID-19 to reset the global political field (among other ancillary reasons).

    I knew as early as late December/early January that this was likely a product of Western intelligence agencies when I saw the media pushing this COVID-19 narrative in the same way they pushed Iraq WMDs and Russian collusion. The hype seemed suspicious at the start because it was largely hypothetical. The events of the past two months have only strengthened that assessment.

    Major media was able to keep the Russia hoax going for 2 years with nightly breaking stories about sources within the intelligence community and classified information having damning evidence of Trump’s collusion with Russia. We’ll see if this false flag can remain propped up with the relatively minor impact of this “pandemic”.

    We are living in a totally insane time which is becoming more insane by the day. And just imagine what we can expect to see in the future from Deep State when they now know they can plot to subvert American democracy, have their plot and its illegal actions exposed, yet not one of them arrested or facing any criminal charge. Stasi on steroids.

  56. getaclue says:
    @Peter D. Bredon

    Truer statement has rarely been made….

  57. getaclue says:
    @Ron Unz

    This is a good analysis of this issue — in the comments below the article!!! — by obviously knowledgeable MDs/Scientists– pro and con are argued with facts and past history– worth reading: https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/02/17/chinese-study-the-killer-coronavirus-probably-originated-from-a-laboratory-in-wuhan/ I came away that it could go either way at this point — the Lab at issue has incontrovertibly leaked in 2002-03 two strains of the SARS virus that the Chinese were working on at this EXACT lab that some claim leaked this virus– so to say it is not in the realm of possibility/probability that it leaked out of there, given that history, is flat out wrong.

  58. @ThreeCranes

    What if the “Ancients” felt that the “Moderns” had accumulated too much power with their financial shenanigans and were behaving too recklessly so they decided to implode the house of cards at a time not of their choosing to bring them down? Is it possible that at it’s core it is a battle of the Titans and any human toll is just collateral damage?

  59. Now that there have been about 347 articles here saying “Trump did Corona!” and comments hoping that the Chinese—world’s most awesome people(!)—will exact their revenge, I look forward to seeing an article about the Chinese history of sending toys to the U.S. coated with lead paint, not to mention their tainting and weakening of vital pharmaceuticals, not to mention their exporting of fentanyl, not to mention their industrial espionage, not to mention…… ad infinitum.

    But then again, there are likely at least several hundred experts-on-everything on this site who will claim none of that ever happened, or if it did, it was an accident, or it was America’s fault, or otherwise try to minimize it.

    Never remind a worthless sinophile about the 50+ million Chinese deaths under The Chairman’s benevolent reign, the re-education camps, the forced abortions, the organ harvesting of Christians, the concentration camps, or anything else along those lines, because that’s all just “anti-Chinese” propaganda and it never happened.” What really matters is “Orange Man Bad.”

    • Replies: @Greg Bacon
    , @Loren
  60. @Lot

    You have just received the ultimate internet counter-argument by being called a troll. That’ll teach ya!

  61. niceland says:

    Now it’s coming to light Covid19 infects Europeans of northern stock, seemingly quite efficiently.

    Case in point is Italy, but now we also have Iceland with 34 tested positive in past few days. The current world record per capita! All of them (so far) got the virus in ski resorts in Italy or Austria. I expect almost all of them to be of northern European stock. Our tiny group of Asian immigrants is unlikely to go skiing. Only those with symptoms were tested so I expect many more to be infected.

    Everything I have read about the difference between Covid19 and it’s closest relatives has to do with the ability to infect humans. If there is engineering involved it’s there and it follows, so is the alleged race selectivity.

    At this point it seems it isn’t so race selective after all, but time will tell.

    • Replies: @Pheasant
    , @TT
  62. @Lot

    And the “300” is a red herring since a single person or small team could spread a virus around a city.

    Not just that, but if the idea is that these 300 military personnel were recruited to spread the virus, they could, as participants in the games, presumably be identified and questioned. Doesn’t seem particularly “covert” to me.

    Anyway, you should be rejoicing that this article was posted. Your bete noire, Giraldi, just shot his credibility to pieces with this wild speculation.

    • Thanks: Lot
    • Troll: ploni almoni
    • Replies: @ivan
  63. Turk 152 says:

    It isnt a question of motive or criminality of the respective countries, the issue is that bioweapons are inefficient. As the virus illustrates, by the time you make one lethal enough to inlict damage, the chances if killing yourself are quite high. US, Israel, China, they all know this. I am afraid that in a few more weeks there will be plenty of cases proving this is not ethnic specific or at the very least such targeting was a failure.

    I dont think we are very far away from assuming this came from Wuhans viral lab. But a deliberate release that is this consequential, would have to have been done by complete morons or top leaders that are very diabolical. If the latter is true, I would need alot more proof, not mere speculation.

    • Agree: Old and Grumpy
  64. 44.Ron Unz says:

    “Well, I just lightly skimmed through the piece, but the notion that the US itself had a major Coronavirus outbreak back in 2019 seems pretty implausible to me.

    By all accounts, the virus is extremely contagious. So any such American outbreak would surely have resulted in many hundreds of thousands if not millions of cases. Enough people, at least the elderly, would have become gravely ill or died that we would have noticed it. . . . I find it very unlikely there was an American epidemic last year and no one noticed it.

    My guess is that this is just some sort of poor quality government propaganda, maybe by the PRC.”

    No. These comments are unreasoned and unfair. I don’t mean to be unkind, but maybe read instead of skim, and understand prior to making judgments.

    First, the article made no claim that that the US had “a major coronavirus outbreak” in 2019. In fact, the article made no claims at all. What it did was to state conclusions from Japanese and Taiwanese medical sources that the virus “probably originated in the US and not in China”. That is very different from claiming an epidemic in progress in the US.

    One bit of evidence provided in the above was of Japanese or Taiwanese traveling to the US (Hawaii) and returning home infected in September of 2019, stating these people had never been to China. That placed the beginnings of the virus outbreak outside China and inside the US, and three months earlier than assumed. Identical conclusions arrived at by virologists in three countries.

    Secondly, logic is absent from your argument. You state the US could not possibly have had the virus circulating in 2019 because millions didn’t become infected or die – then used that assumption to trash the article.

    But that’s wrong. The US is certainly infected with the virus now, but why doesn’t this now “surely … result(ed) in many hundreds of thousands if not millions of cases”?

    If it doesn’t create an epidemic now, why should it have done so in 2019? There was no ‘epidemic’ of millions in 2019 and there is no such epidemic today, but the virus is still circulating, isn’t it?

    It is at least possible that the main virus was indeed Chinese-specific, which would account in itself for the absence of Caucasian and black or Hispanic infections.

    Your reference to PRC propaganda is unkind, and unworthy of you. The Chinese medical authorities and Chinese intelligence agencies really did scour the world for virus samples to track down the origin, and they did determine that origin was elsewhere. The investigation was high-quality, not poor quality, and there was no propaganda involved. They identified all the different haplootypes and concluded a foreign origin – precisely the same conclusions that emerged from Japanese and Taiwanese virologists. Was that ‘Japanese propaganda’ or ‘Taiwanese propaganda’?

    • Thanks: Meimou
  65. Why don’t we call an Spade a Spade.
    When you first don’t progress with an Lie, Lie agian
    Then when the lie does not work, Lie more till the masses believe in it.
    The more you tell the lie straight in the face of someone, the sooner they will believe it.

    Now the Question is… Who owns all these “straight in the face” Lie Machines?
    You do, but with what and whome are you connected with 🙂

  66. COVID-19 “Worldwide Epidemic of Biblical Proportions”

    This is becoming increasingly crazy. The Western media hype is intolerable with its fear-mongering. What is driving this?

    In most countries, a few people or a few hundred people have been infected with this virus, and a dozen or so countries have seen a handful of deaths. Many more people die each year from simple influenza.

    Two years ago, the US had 45 million flu infections, more than 300,000 thousands hospitalised, and 61,000 deaths. Why wasn’t that considered an epidemic? All those infections and deaths weren’t even noticed by the media. But 100 infections and 10 deaths from a coronavirus is sufficient to request $8 billion in funds and curtail air transport.

    This year in the US, more than 10,000 have died of the flu and that is unworthy of media mention, but ten people out of 330 million have died from the coronavirus and we have a pandemic.

    In most infected countries the statistics are quite similar: about one person will die of each million of population.

    Iran, with 80 million people, has less than 100 deaths, roughly one out of each million of population. Statistically, this is nothing. The only curiosity about Iran is that the virus seems to attack primarily the political leaders of their Parliament.

    Italy has roughly 50 deaths out of 50 million of population, roughly one in a million. So what? More people die from from eating bad pizza or falling off bridges, but all the schools and universities are closed.

    Korea is similar. Out of 50 million people, 40 deaths. Roughly one in a million. Where is the pandemic?

    On this basis, China appears to be the worst with about two people dying out of each million. (3,000 deaths from 1.5 billion population). Probably more mothers-in-law are strangled each year.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  67. Antares says:
    @Delta G

    All Corona-virus outbreaks come from a cross species infection. There is no detectable reservoir of this type of virus in humans but there is in many other mammalian species.

    It would be reallly nice if you could also give such an explanation for the Stuxnet virus. Are there mammals other than humans from which such a virus can originate? Is it a cross species infection?

  68. sally says:
    @Bruce Arney

    https://www.veteranstoday.com/2020/03/04/russian-expert-covid-19-a-secret-coup-against-china/
    https://www.globalresearch.ca/china-coronavirus-shocking-update/5705196

    Are the Wuhan, China, Covid-19 story, Bernie to Biden switch, and Afghanistan treaty somehow related?

    consider this ..

    According to article at global research the virus did not originate in China and, according to reports in Japanese and other media, may have originated at the USA. .. if so, those that govern have kept the Americans they govern in the dark about the virus. ? <= claim needs confirmation

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/china-coronavirus-shocking-update/5705196
    still the question is.. are the Wuhan quarantine, the HK issue, Afghanistan and the recent apparent
    upset in the Democrat (Sanders vs Biden) Nomination related.

    According to a video (https://www.veteranstoday.com/2020/03/04/russian-expert-covid-19-a-secret-coup-against-china/%5D Nikolay Vavilov, former Russian Expert on China, & said to be specialist on Chinese domestic policy .. reminded us in the video 7 things are related. and I added the 8th.
    1. Dmitry Medvelov, Former President of Russia, <ties with Democratic Party in America. recently resigned.
    2. Chinese constitutional parliament special session indefinitely delayed<=virus policy and actual virus effect.
    3. Mentions Current leaders of Komsomal PM Likeqiang
    4. Jan 6, NYT called the virus "mysterious Disease.
    5. Jan 2, Taiwanese General was killed
    6 Jan 3 head of gen staff of Iran Soleimani was killed
    7. Jan 3 head of the Kurdish intelligence Metin Arsain was killed.
    8. Feb 29, Taliban -USA agreement (treaty?).

    I am interested to find out what this is all about.

    How does infection detection method of WHO vs infection detection method of CDC (USA will not allow WHO methods of virus detection be used) fit into this picture .?

    CJ @MOA.org Feb 29 2020 22:15 utc | 38 exposed to the MoA.org list what he says CDC needs: the virus test A New England Biolabs preprint reports on <= a very rapid assay for COVID-19 — the paper cited: Rapid Molecular Detection of SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19) Virus RNA Using Colorimetric LAMP Yinhua Zhang, Nelson Odiwuor, Jin Xiong, Luo Sun, Raphael Ohuru Nyaruaba, Hongping Wei, Nathan A Tanner <= Basic isothermal loop mediated amplification (LAMP) assay <=possibly suitable for COVID-19. 30 minutes/ — faster if automated, cost a few cents/. Adaptable to general practitioner or field personnel use dx — detection: a simple color change in a tube.< needed: a pipette, assay tube, hot block and a timer. Detection : 99.99% vs 1% or less false positive. <=if true, CJ says CDC needs to mass produce 100 million assay tubes — yesterday.

    As expected, the Trump Administration played down the risk of the coronavirus, could be because Trump knew as Global Research reports…

    • Replies: @anon
  69. Tor597 says:
    @Ron Unz

    Aside from the 300 soldiers visiting just before the outbreak, there are a number of other “coincidences” that don’t add up.

    1) Bill Gates event 201 which came out just a month before the initial outbreak. What was the pandemic they planned for? Corona Virus of course. And of course China was not invited.

    2) While China is being hit with Corona Virus, their food supply was being hit with African Fever (pork), avian flu (poultry), and a locust outbreak.

    The plan here was to hit China with a massive outbreak while at the same time starving them out.

    3) US government ended a moratorium on Gain of function virus testing. Making viruses more transmissible and pathogenic which is exactly what Cororna Virus is.

    https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/d34vyj/the-us-will-fund-research-to-make-pathogens-deadlier-again

    4) The vaccine Isreal developed is a new technique. They could have used any virus to test it on, but by pure luck they choose corona virus.

    “Let’s call it pure luck,” he said. “We decided to choose coronavirus as a model for our system just as a proof of concept for our technology.”

    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/israeli-scientists-say-they-will-have-coronavirus-vaccine-few-weeks

  70. More then 17 years ago, i stopped watching Main Stream Television.
    I even did tests in the wake of 911.

    It went like this.
    Put the TV 24 hours on “including when you sleep”
    Sleep on a sofa or couch 24 hours with the TV ON.
    Analyze what consequences it has in 1 to 2 years.

    And i did. I Flipped 🙂
    You will become a programmed and DANGEROUS ZOMBIE 🙂
    It’s an fact, and i’m proud that i do my own research and without MSM BS Psy-Ops.

  71. Back in 2001, a team of Russian scientists visited Israel. They were concerned by reports that ethnic-specific bio-weapons were being developed there. They conducted some enquiries there. When returning to Russia, their plane was shot down by a Ukrainian missile over the Black Sea. The Ukrainians said it was an accident and that was the end of the matter.

    • Replies: @Loren
  72. Corona Virus Patents

    Coronavirus
    Jul 23, 2015 – THE PIRBRIGHT INSTITUTE
    https://patents.justia.com/patent/10130701

    Coronavirus (SARS) isolated from humans
    Abstract
    Disclosed herein is a newly isolated human coronavirus (SARS-CoV)
    2004 US 2007 US
    https://patents.google.com/patent/US7220852B1/en

  73. anon[686] • Disclaimer says:
    @NegroPantera

    Such wild life, puppies or kittens are consumed by a very small percentage of the population. None of the Chinese that I know of eat such things. I will estimate 0.001% of them do.

    Like most other countries, China does not prohibit the consumption of wild animals. Heck, even the US does not prohibit the consumption of wild animals so people eat raccoons, alligators, snakes, moose, wild birds and anything that you bear to stomach. You can legally eat a cockroach if you want too. Now, do you want a grandfathering government that tells you what you can legally eat, and make it illegal to eat a cockroach?

    What makes you think you can tell the Chinese what they can eat? Especially when your own government does not do that on her own people.

    • Replies: @Been_there_done_that
  74. Alfred says:
    @Realist

    Here is one study.

    I confess that I did not try to read the article as it is not a science that I know anything about. The chart was equally obtuse. I respectfully ask someone with a relevant background to explain it to us.

    I would like to know the percent of the ACE2 gene in Northwest Europeans, East Asians, Persians and Italians

    I would like to add Black Africans to that list. I suspect that they will not be much affected by this virus. Their immune systems are way ahead of that of any other peoples. In their environment, that is a much more important quality than almost useless things like intelligence.

  75. More than two weeks ago, at Infowars (Alex Jones Show), there was an interesting interview with Prof. Boyle (see link below for transcript), at the University of Illinois, who drafted the Biological Weapons Anti-terrorism Act of 1989. He cited a peer-reviewed journal article by the Dutch publisher Elsevier, according to which there was proof that the Wuhan corona virus was genetically engineered to be hideously pervasive and deadly, referred to as “gain of function”.

    Prof. Boyle claimed that a part of the virus, which was subsequently enhanced in Wuhan, was most likely purchased by China five years ago from the University of North Carolina, which had a bioweapon level-3 lab:

    I think I have the definitive evidence where this came from and it came from the BSL-3 biowarfare lab at the University of North Carolina.

    He suggested that it was quite likely that at least one of the employees at the level-4 bioweapon lab in Wuhan became infected without showing symptoms and then unwittingly transmitted it to others in the vicinity.

    The information provided by Prof. Boyle in that interview is more informative than all the speculation in the article above and subsequent comments.

    The logical case for presuming that the release of this biologically engineered viral weapon was accidental would be the premise that intentionally releasing a biological weapon without having also already developed an appropriate antidote or vaccine beforehand would be tactically irresponsible because one could never rule out the possibility of incurring a “counterproductive” blow-back effect. Apparently the bioweapons researchers at the Wuhan lab had not yet gotten around to developing a reliable antidote.

    In light of the Chinese origin, a more pertinent question to speculate about would be: Were they considering or planning to release the virus in Tokyo during the late spring to sabotage (cancel) the Summer Olympic Games there, otherwise possibly in Taiwan, at a later time?

    Incidentally, the opening ceremony of the military games in Wuhan featured a spectacular light show and is worth watching.

    Article (February 19) in NaturalNews with link to abstract of research paper:

    https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-02-19-covid-19-coronavirus-found-to-contain-gain-of-function-for-efficient-spreading-human-population.html

    Transcript (February 20) of Interview with Prof. Boyle at NaturalNews plus video link:

    https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-02-20-full-transcript-smoking-gun-interview-prof-frances-boyle-coronavirus-bioweapons.html

    • Replies: @Tor597
  76. Alfred says:
    @Colin Wright

    They seem to find it hard to resist the urge to kvell

    Netanyahu more or less boasted on Israeli TV that 9/11 was one of his accomplishments.

    Netanyahu Says 9/11 Terror Attacks Good for Israel (Haaretz)

    Netanyahu Predicted 9/11 in 1995

    • Agree: Iris
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Cyndy
    , @melvin
  77. @Ron Unz

    One fresh suggestion (infra)…

    As I replied to you on the Lance Walton thread before Dr. Giraldi brought Israel into the frame by highlighting the Iaraeli’s’ claiming surprisingly speedy progress towards developing a vaccine:

    “Should you not factor in reasoning about vaccines for a full analysis and assessment of probabilities. True, one would not want to show up with a vaccine too soon if you were the creator or spreader of the virus – but you would want immunity for you and yours. This leads to the thought that the more likely inventor and infecter might be one of the rare beneficiaries from the virus outbreak. *Cashing in on vaccination or alleged cures could be a logical motive.* And success would allow sales of the virus mutating technology to governments.
    And all that suggests another fairly low probability possibility, namely that Israel is responsible for developing and spreading the virus. Iran? Check. China – well that would allow the effectiveness of the strongest countermeasures to be tested……. Amongst low probability events to be looked for an Israeli contribution to developing a vaccine should be considered. Will Israel suffer much economically from the Corona virus outbreak?”

    A theory which could fit is that Israel took the opportunity of accidental release in Wuhan to release a slightly different version in Iran. Naturally they would have worked on a vaccine as well.

    I hope this helps relieve your sadly rational compulsion to suspect the worst about USG morals and sanity. IMO even Trump would have seen and avoided the risk to the American economy of releasing the Coronavirus in Wuhan. Once the supposition is that some USG people did it without approval of the President one is indeed confronted by a scary world.

    • Replies: @ploni almoni
    , @Mefobills
  78. Alfred says:
    @Han 21

    The radio silence on this arrest, even on dissident sites such as this one, is extraordinary

    I have made three comments recently on the importance of much improved testing – effective triage and isolation – as the only practical long-term way of negating the threat of biological warfare.

    Dr Charles Lieber, I believe, was making good progress on a method of detecting individual virus particles almost instantly and at a low cost – without a highly-skilled workforce.

    It is as though in 1939 the Germans were to imprison their chief expert on anti-tank mines because he had a contract with the French. Well, that is my opinion. You can call me a nutter if you like. 😜

  79. @Ron Unz

    The CDC took twice as long to pick up the US Coronavirus outbreak in 2009 as China took for this one.

    An American serviceman as patient zero in September allows for an innocent vector and fits the incubation delay, since the Military World Games was held in Wuhan from October 18–27, 2019.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  80. Alfred says:
    @Lot

    The results are consistent with it arising and then spreading from Wuhan, with Iran and Italy the main secondary sources.

    Troll.

    How about some links to science?

  81. @Ron Unz

    “astonishing* coincidence ”
    Yes, indeed….

  82. Moi says:
    @John Chuckman

    When shit like this happens, my first suspect is our own beloved USA, and second is the eternal land of the Chosen.

    And how is this for a little compassion:

    https://theintercept.com/2020/03/05/iran-coronavirus-medicine-sanctions/

  83. Moi says:
    @NegroPantera

    American will kill anything, and the Chinese will eat anything.

    • Replies: @Trinity
  84. @SteveK9

    Perhaps. The “escape theory” probably works with occam’s razor better….
    The only troubling thing to my mind, at least, is why would the chinese be mucking around with a virus which research is increasingly showing to be 5 or so times more dangerous to east asians than others ? Yes, i guess people can find reasons for that, but i still find it very … curious behaviour….

    • Replies: @SteveK9
  85. Basto says:

    There is no reason that this couldn’t have naturally emerged. Also, I’m still not convinced that there is not a racial component to susceptibility to infection by this virus. Even if this were the case,it could easily be explained to have occurred through natural selection.

    The fact that the virus has hit hard in Iran could be due to Ghengis Khan and his marauding Mongolian and Chinese troops having had conquered and ruled Persia, spreading their DNA in the process.

    I wonder if a much higher than average percentage of the Iranian population has an increased number of ace receptors like the Chinese.

  86. Biff says:
    @A123

    An escape from a local lab is much more likely than a convoluted conspiracy theory explanation.

    An escape from a local lab is a convoluted conspiracy theory. Especially when it comes from an opinionated troll that has never been right about anything.

    • Agree: Meimou
    • Replies: @james charles
  87. Alfred says:
    @ThreeCranes

    Why would they do this to themselves?

    Who ever said that the CEO’s of these companies did it to themselves.

    Those in the know had an opportunity to massively short any stocks that would suffer – and buy options on stocks that would benefit. That is what happened in 9/11.

    For example, the leading bank in each of France and Germany lost 1/3 of their value in the past 3 weeks. That is tremendous. A person with a decent shorting strategy could easily make 10 times their money.

    https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/bnp.pa/
    https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/DB/

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  88. eah says:

    How does antibiotic resistance arise? — how do new variants of the flu arise? — every year the flu vaccine is reformulated in an attempt to confer immunity to the new/latest flu virus threats, some of which are mutations, even significant mutations, of known viruses covered by previous vaccines.

    One can speculate re the origins of COVID-19, and, assuming it was created, whether the outbreak is related to its deliberate release, even use as a weapon — but at this point, to believe that seems nutty.

    Coronavirus has mutated into more aggressive disease, say scientists

    Per this report, (suspected natural) mutations of COVID-19 have already been detected, and these are said/just happen to be “more aggressive” (I assume this means have higher pathogenicity) — were these mutations also created and released?

    • Replies: @eah
  89. Since only the young survive they should have named it the Pol Pot virus. Who’s afraid of Corona? Just a beer.

    • Replies: @SonOfABush
  90. @A123

    “…For any “deliberate release” theory, the action would have to be taken by a group that is an enemy of both China and the U.S.…”

    Or… a “group” that doesn’t care about the wellbeing of the US and only wants to use it for its own purposes. And also the same “group” that considers Iran as its greatest threat and has infiltrated all US institutions to the degree of almost total control so that it can cause the US to act against its own interests. Gosh, (((who))) could that be?

    • Replies: @ivan
  91. Ron Unz says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    An American serviceman as patient zero in September allows for an innocent vector and fits the incubation delay, since the Military World Games was held in Wuhan from October 18–27, 2019.

    Exactly. That’s why the theory works as PRC propaganda. It makes America look bad, but avoids any accusation of a deliberate US biowarfare attack, which would outrage the Chinese population and force the government to respond. But I don’t think that makes any sense.

    From everything I read in my newspapers, the China virus is highly contagious and has maybe a 1-2% death rate, over 10x that of the normal flu. If it had been circulating around in the US during 2019, it’s difficult to believe no one would have noticed anything. The circulation must have been very wide if it happened to infect a US serviceman who then took it to Wuhan. Even if it’s relatively harmless to non-East Asians, who are just carriers, it surely would have gotten into America’s Asian community, leading to a very noticeable epidemic.

    Another possibility is that its either not nearly as contagious nor as deadly as the MSM claims, which means Trump is right, and it’s basically a hoax. But the evidence from Asia strongly suggests otherwise, at least with regard to East Asians.

    It seems exceptionally unlikely that the virus circulating in the US during 2019 was mild, but once it jumped to China, it suddenly naturally mutated and became deadly. Possible, but exceptionally unlikely. We must also believe it mutated and became deadly once it jumped to Italy and Iran as well. I guess America is just “lucky” and the virus is harmless here.

    • Replies: @A123
    , @Tor597
    , @Godfree Roberts
  92. ivan says:
    @silviosilver

    Yes its too far fetced to believe. But everyone has to worship at the altar of stupidity sometimes – Einstein.

  93. @Realist

    It sure seems to quack, walk, and otherwise act like a duck, though: https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/03/gary-d-barnett/the-coronavirus-is-the-way-to-martial-law-and-total-control-over-populations/ The anti-free market bankster cartel likes shooting fish in a barrel.

    • Replies: @Realist
  94. It seems exceptionally unlikely that the virus circulating in the US during 2019 was mild, but once it jumped to China, it suddenly naturally mutated and became deadly?

    It seems more likely that it doesn’t fare well in Aryan environments but thrives when it gets into Chinese systems–an apparent innocent consequence of its structure.

  95. For all cases of a suspicion of a conspiracy, consider :

    1) If there is a combination of too many “coincidences” then it is no coincidence but a deliberate plan.

    2) Always ask yourself “who benefits ?” People never act “just like that”, but always with a definite interest in mind.

    3) Always combine motive, means and opportunity in your deliberations.

    4) Consider the character and past record of the suspect. Is suspect morally capable of committing the crime and has he done such things before?

    All this combined makes ISRAEL the main suspect of the Coronavirus (just like of 9/11).

    • Agree: Maowasayali
    • Replies: @Meimou
    , @Maowasayali
  96. Paul says:

    Dubowitz followed up with an additional taunt, that Tehran has “spread terrorism” in the Middle East and “now it’s spreading the coronavirus.”

    An Israeli accusing another country of terrorism? Talk about chutzpah!

    • Agree: Alfred
  97. UK says:
    @YOU LOSE

    We will have input to the sentencing of Gina and Bob Gates. I vote death of 1,000 cuts. Dibs on the 1st cut!

    Oh great, another internet nutjob psychopath.

  98. Jane Doe says:

    Good article, but this reflection strikes me as naive:

    “It is, to be sure, hard to believe that even the Trump White House would do something so reckless…”

    About 15 years ago I saw one of the major nightly news networks do a short report on the US government having done aerial bombardment of two American cities with radioactive particles in order to test the effects on humans. Any information regarding that report has since vaporized, but I often wonder if it would account for incidents such as those neighborhoods with unexplained clusters of children with brain tumors. Nevertheless, I think the US government sees us all as rather dispensable.

    The outbreaks in China and Iran seem too much of a coincidence.

    • Replies: @eah
  99. @A123

    As for:
    “The U.S. had a major trade win with the China “Phase 1” agreement. There is no plausible reason to believe that the U.S. administration would interfere with this success. Given the importance of the U.S. economy on U.S. elections, the timing of the outbreak is also inconsistent with deliberate U.S. action.”

    Like we did not have a reason to break the deals from treaties with Native Americans to the deal with the Taliban a few days ago. For the U.S. deals are made to be broken.

    Now the U.S. can blame a virus when the Everything Bubble collapses. The idea is to keep the Fed and Trump from having to take the blame.

  100. Anonymous[177] • Disclaimer says:
    @Bruce Arney

    I’d also be very suspicious of Israel’s having the Magic Vaccine nearing readiness. The timing of this rather obtuse sequence is the pattern to watch, and it may be firing a shot over the bow of China and Iran. There’s also the story by Stephen Lendman citing sources revealing Israel’s ethnic bio weapons that were tested on Arabs and black South Africans, producing exceptionally diabolical effects on the human guinea pigs—or non-human as Israelis would argue.

    The broader picture of Israeli biological warfare also includes reverse engineering livestock and crop viruses, with the Magic Cure from Israel keyed from the start. Years ago when the USDA gave testimony before Congress on this sort of threat no congressman bothered to show up. Food chains are vulnerable to annihilation and within weeks a country can be devastated like its cities had been bombed. Israel can move materials and operatives around this country with effective impunity if not outright cover from NYPD and federal law enforcement.

    • Agree: Old and Grumpy
  101. @Commentator Mike

    Or as Pepe Escobar says in “No Weapon Left Behind: The American Hybrid War on China” at https://www.globalresearch.ca/no-weapon-left-behind-american-hybrid-war-china/5704403 “The designation of choice should actually be WARS – Wuhan Acute Respiratory Syndrome. That would instantly give the game away as a War against Humanity – irrespective of where it came from.”

  102. Kachoo says:

    Remember when Bob Gates at UT made that big sappy speech like, “I love you guys, I’m not going anywhere, there’s nothing for me in DC and I love it here,” and then UT researchers started dropping like flies from level 2 biowarfare agents and Gates all of a sudden skedaddled to DoD and UT sat on it for a year and then took the CDC’s toughest suspension ever? Everybody was like Huh huh huhhuhhuh

  103. eah says:
    @Jane Doe

    The outbreaks in China and Iran seem too much of a coincidence.

    What is the origin of the outbreak in Iran? — is it the same strain as the one responsible for the outbreak in China? — how about the outbreak in Italy? — presumably behind “too much of a coincidence” is conflict US v China and US v Iran; how about Italy in this regard?

    Here is a claim that ‘patient zero’ in Italy is a Pakistani migrant:

  104. @Suggma J. Balzach

    I think you’ll find that around here most folks are actually pro abortion because it’s done such a great job of lowering the number of blacks in America. I know I’m grateful for it.

    • Thanks: Franklin Ryckaert
    • Replies: @Loren
    , @Suggma J. Balzach
  105. ivan says:
    @Franklin Ryckaert

    I doubt if this most holy of peoples would in their wildest imaginings want to be in the crosshair of the Chicoms.

  106. Anonymous[369] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ayatollah Smith

    Excellent points.

    What makes the fear-mongering unique in this case is that it was pushed initially by both major media and alt-right. That allowed its rapid and complete dissemination. The bizarre bat soup video, which was from Palau not China, quickly went viral and played up by Daily Mail, RT, Paul Joseph Watson, Ann Coulter, Tucker Carlson, and others.

    Based on prior false flags and propaganda operations (e.g., Steele Dossier, Skripal poisoning, et al.) I don’t expect much sophistication out of Western Deep State. But it does seem brilliant to capitalize on the xenophobia and Sinophobia of the right to make this false flag hoax potent. Even if was a secondary plan after the fact it is brilliant.

  107. If China wants to do something similar to the USA and release some kind of virus, all she has to do is to get an Israeli front man/woman to lead the group and they’ll not only be safe from any alphabet agency that for once, actually decides to do their job, but they’ll probably get a magnificent grant from our quisling Congress.

  108. @BDS Always

    Or the release of the virus was intentionally timed for right after the war games to blame the US military attendees.

    • Replies: @lysias
  109. @A123

    “ For any “deliberate release” theory, the action would have to be taken by a group that is an enemy of both China and the U.S..”

    So, Israel?

  110. Amanda says:

    the latest from Jon Rappoport:

    https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2020/03/05/coronavirus-the-definition-of-cases-is-producing-a-new-level-of-illusion/

    [MORE]

    Public health agencies and the press are casting out a blizzard of confusing terms:

    presumptive cases, infected persons, asymptomatic persons, confirmed cases, containment measures, persons connected to persons who are infected…

    It is my understanding that, now, the CDC is lumping together presumptive cases and confirmed cases, and calling them: CASES.

    Certainly, that strategy would immediately multiply the total number of CASES and also multiply fear among the uninformed population.

    A presumptive case would be a person who has not been tested for the coronavirus; or he has been tested, but the results are not yet in.

    Why is he a presumptive case in the first place? There could be several reasons. He has ordinary flu-like symptoms, and his doctor suspects he might be infected by the coronavirus, for no particular reason. He might have come in contact with a person who has been diagnosed as an epidemic case. He might have recently traveled to China—and has or doesn’t have flu-like symptoms. Maybe he has a slight cough…

    You can see that “presumptive” is a quite shaky status. It means next to nothing. Nevertheless, in order to “contain the spread of the virus,” he is pinned with that label—and added to the total of CASES.

  111. In all of the info/dis-info that is being spread around The High Wire shines some factual light on Coronavirus.

    Our founding fathers fought against tyranny to realize the dream of a great and free nation. It is time for the free people of the greatest nation on earth to stand up for our freedom to choose what’s healthy for our own bodies, before the industrial agriculture and pharmaceutical industries pass laws that force those decisions upon us.
    https://www.icandecide.org/

    • Thanks: Agent76
  112. Amanda says:

    More from a contrarian perspective:

    https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2020/03/04/patient-deaths-are-deployed-to-sell-the-coronavirus-story/

    First, let’s get one thing straight. Death by itself does not equal coronavirus.

    “…approximately 7,452 people die every day in the United States. In other words, a person dies in the US approximately every 12 seconds.” (indexmundi.com)

    Understood? The psy-op is: put death and coronavirus in the same sentence. People will unthinkingly buy it.

    CBS News, March 4: “The number of coronavirus deaths in the U.S. rose to nine on Tuesday, according to health officials. All of the deaths occurred in Washington state.”

    That paragraph convinces most people the state of Washington is experiencing an outbreak. What else could it be? Answer: it could be anything. It could be several anythings.

    Kuow.org: March 3: “Health officials on Tuesday announced three more presumed coronavirus deaths in the Seattle area, bringing the Washington state death toll to nine.”

    The key word in that paragraph is “presumed.” No test results are in yet. And even when they do come in—as I’ve been detailing in these pages—the tests are inadequate and worthless for diagnosing illness and disease.

  113. Amanda says:

    From James Corbett:
    https://www.sott.net/article/429957-The-Coronavirus-Pandemic-Lies-Damned-Lies-And-Infection-Numbers

    Yes, there are as many theories about coronavirus disease 2019 (Covid-19) as there are people talking about it. The reality is that I don’t know the truth about what this virus really is or where it came from and neither do you.

    But there’s something that we do know for sure regardless of where this virus came from or whether it even really exists. The hype and fear and panic and pandemonium surrounding this (supposed) outbreak is going to be far worse than the disease could ever be. Because, as I’ve been screaming about for over a decade now, a bioweapon attack (real or manmade, false flag or otherwise) is the perfect cover for a slew of agenda items on the globalist checklist. And the more the population panics, the more they play into the globalists’ hands.

  114. Ron Unz must be losing sleep over the coronavirus issue for I have never seen so many comments by him on any single article.

    Anyway, about that Dubowitz dude … the old timers, that is say Jews who were underfed and less pampered during their exile to the American gulag-the Lower East side of Manhattan-unlike the idiot in question, would serve up revenge as a cold dish without mouthing off but now it seems that discretion isn’t the better part of cowardice … Iran has nothing to worry about from the “too clever by half” moron!

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  115. @A123

    For any “deliberate release” theory, the action would have to be taken by a group that is an enemy of both China and the U.S..

    The Chosen seem to be the only group that hates everyone else, including China and their greatest benefactor, the USA.

  116. Anon[385] • Disclaimer says:

    The media coverage in the West stresses the calls for “a global and concerted response” to the Coronavirus. It is the same call that was made around the Greta Thunberg brouhaha. It is the UN’s attitude to “key global issues” since the fall of the USSR and the start of its World Summits (Population, Climate, Gender)

    So, first level analysis is the traditional who/whom among nation-states. At this level we can include the impact within each nation-state.

    But more importantly, and given the clues in the media coverage, one must think about the future scenario which is now being promoted on the global stage. Such a scenario would include an executive structure able to react “globally and concertedly” in matters of population and public health, would it not?

    • Replies: @Desert Fox
  117. In my opinion it was a bioweapon attack on China and indirectly on Iran by the ZUS and Israel, the usual suspects in the diabolical destruction of nations.

  118. @Turk 152

    One possibility is that those parties aren’t using it against each other, but rather in coordination (to facilitate global financial reset).

  119. Pheasant says:
    @niceland

    ‘I expect almost all of them to be of northern European stock. Our tiny group of Asian immigrants is unlikely to go skiing’

    Bjork.

    • Disagree: niceland
  120. @Turk 152

    And what were the odds of Stuxnet coming back around to bite us/U.S. in the a$$???

    I will not put that sort of stupidity past them considering prior behavior.

  121. @Anon

    Please go to the site stopthecrime.net and on the homepage click on the access headline to her youtube channel, and on her youtube channel click on the first video titled Deborah Tavares: Illuninati Global Agenda and watch the video, it is over 2 hours, but is one of the most important videos I have ever watched.

    Deborah Tavares is a very brave woman to speak on these subjects!

  122. lysias says:
    @Old and Grumpy

    Israel was another country that did not participate in the 2019 Military World Games in Wuhan.

  123. getaclue says:
    @Ron Unz

    I just saw this which is on point as to this question above and the manufactured hysteria — also as to the political weaponization of this by the usually suspects on team Clinton, Russia hoax didn’t work so next, next….–all must serve politics even if it destroys the country economically or whatever–sad group that has been basically “running” things for decades now: https://www.lifesitenews.com/blogs/how-the-left-is-weaponizing-coronavirus-in-an-attempt-to-destroy-president-trump

  124. BL says:
    @Ron Unz

    Conspiracy theories are exercises in Reductionism.

    Equally so Bias Confirmation.

    What has long fascinated me the most about them though, is the functional disconnect between the precipitating event (e.g. the Coronavirus outbreak) and the various conspiracy theorizing that follows ad infinitum.

    For the powers that be they aren’t puzzles to be solved so much as another day at the office in terms of risk and reward management. The greatest risk being that sovereign decision making is constrained or commanded by conjuring public ire that must be satisfied, even if in contradistinction to the national interest.

    Years ago, I put myself at ease upon learning that before exploding a nuclear bomb the USG consulted with the greatest physicists for expert confirmation that detonating it wouldn’t crack the sky or some such thing.

    But that was naïveté. An ignorant assumption that governmental authority would rise to the occasion to prevent catastrophe.

    A recent and ongoing example that is anything but the case is the global electronic surveillance system the USG built over the last decades, including, of course, of Americans, without, apparently, anyone in the room at the commanding heights ever asking what could go wrong.

    China’s CCP decided that nothing signaled China’s rise like their very own BSL-4 lab! After all, the US has 13!

    The funny thing is that there are now lots of smart Americans like Ron that long ago mentally made their peace with CCP China dethroning the American superpower. Indeed, he goes even further, believing that Han Chinese kids became a super race under our noses, as evidenced by their suddenly rising SAT scores leaving whites too in the dust.

    Cheating? Impossible! Saturday morning cartoonish finger-pointing at the US and/or Israeli government for the Coronavirus? Sure.

    • Replies: @Lot
    , @2stateshmustate
  125. A123 says:
    @Ron Unz

    Another possibility is that its either not nearly as contagious nor as deadly as the MSM claims, which means Trump is right, and it’s basically a hoax. But the evidence from Asia strongly suggests otherwise, at least with regard to East Asians.

    This never happened, the Fake Stream Media intentionally misrepresented what Trump said. (1)

    No, Trump did not call the coronavirus a hoax

    Now the Democrats are politicizing the coronavirus. We did one of the great jobs, you say ‘How’s President Trump doing?’ They go, ‘Oh, not good.’ They have no clue. They don’t have any clue. They can’t even count their votes in Iowa.”

    Trump continued: “One of my people came up to me and said, ‘Mr. President, they tried to beat you on Russia. That didnt work out too well. They couldn’t do it. They tried the impeachment hoax. That was on a perfect conversation. They tried anything. They tried it over and over. They’ve been doing it since you got in. It’s all turning. They lost, it’s all turning. Think of it, and this is their new hoax.’”

    It’s clear from the context that Trump was highlighting the Democratic Party’s efforts to smear Trump for mishandling the virus.

    Trump never said Coronavirus was a hoax.

    Trump said that Democrats misrepresenting U.S. actions was a hoax. Just like the impeachment hoax.

    PEACE 😇
    _______

    (1) https://www.thepostmillennial.com/no-trump-did-not-call-the-coronavirus-a-hoax/

  126. Greg Bacon says: • Website

    Sooner or later, the rigged and bloated stock market was going to crash, so blaming that crash on Corona would be ideal for a certain group of international gangsters.
    They can’t use the lame-ass excuse they used in 2008, that “Gosh, no one saw that coming.”

    Plus the Corona fear would be good cover for giving anudda’ trillion or two to those TBTF Wall Street Casinos.

  127. Remember Porportions and Rationalty.. again

    According to the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, an estimated 35.5 million people contracted influenza during the 2018-19 season and 34,200 deaths as a result of influenza were recorded.
    Population about 328 Million
    https://blogs.cdc.gov/publichealthmatters/2020/01/fivethingsflu/

    114 new deaths, 394 new confirmed cases of coronavirus infection were reported in the Chinese mainland. The total infection number soared to 74,576 with 2,118 deaths as of 24:00 Feb 19.
    Population about 1.3-4 Billion
    https://www.globaltimes.cn//content/1177737.shtml
    https://www.who.int/csr/don/12-january-2020-novel-coronavirus-china/en/

    China’s cases of Covid-19 are finally declining. WHO expert Bruce Aylward explains why.

    https://www.newcoldwar.org/chinas-cases-of-covid-19-are-finally-declining-a-who-expert-explains-why/
    March 05/2020

    There’s one country in the world that currently has the most knowledge of and experience with Covid-19: China.
    In recent weeks, though, the number of new infections and deaths reported in China has been declining, which suggests spread of the virus may have peaked there and that transmission is slowing down.
    At the same time, cases are rapidly increasing in several other countries, with major outbreaks in South Korea, Italy, and Iran — and a growing case count in the United States.

    Bruce Aylward
    Are they (China) hiding things? No, they are not. We looked at many different things to try to corroborate that cases are dropping. When I went to fever clinics and talked to people working there, they’d say, “We used to have a line out the door, and now we see a case once per hour.”

    According to the national data, fever clinics went from seeing 46,000 people per day at one point and it’s now down to 1,000. So there’s been a huge drop in numbers into the feeder system.

    Second thing: When talking to physicians in hospitals, I heard again and again that we have open beds, we can get people isolated even more rapidly. I heard that in Wuhan and other provinces. The third thing: I talked to people running clinical trials of drugs, and they are having a problem recruiting patients. All these things helped corroborate [China’s data].

  128. glib says:
    @Ralphie in WPB

    At the time of this writing, 148 deaths, average age 81, most if not all with multiple pre-existing conditions. The type of people the flu weeds out every winter everywhere.

  129. Tim too says:
    @Alfred

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angiotensin-converting_enzyme_2

    Basically, every human has the ACE2 enzyme. Some people are pointing to the density of ACE2 expressed as possible discriminatory for infection.

    • Thanks: Alfred
  130. This is not logical as an attack of one nation on another.

    In a few months, when people have adjusted to the presence of Covid-19 as a normal part of life that weeds out the old and genetically susceptible, most of the conspiracy theorists are going to be saying that governments did this to their own populations to relieve themselves of the burden of the non-productive.

    The economic “oopsie” of bankruptcies and stock market losses is the same. Zombie companies were going to die and needed to be taken off life support also.

    I am 73 years old, should live another 10 years (actuarily), and marvel at what I cost the Federal government in Social Security and Medicare. If I die fast, all you young people will be relieved of a burden. Multiply my cost by 3 or 4 million and the nation is about to be relieved of an enormous burden.

    “The scourges of pestilence, famine, wars, and earthquakes have come to be regarded as a blessing to overcrowded nations, since they serve to prune away the luxuriant growth of the human race.” Tertullian, quoted by G Hardin in “Protection, Yes…”

    • Replies: @bjondo
    , @Turk 152
  131. bjondo says:

    Opium: Jew, Brits;
    Stuxnet: Jew, Amurderka.

    Current attack: Jew, Amurderka?

    China, Iran, be really Jew:
    Never forget, never forgive.
    Revenge.

    #128, Remember Porportions and Rationalty

    Irrelevant if this is an intentional attack.
    Still war.
    Economies hurt, daily life seriously affected, people died.

    5 dancing shlomos

  132. Tor597 says:
    @Been_there_done_that

    But lo and behold here is Isreal just weeks away with a vaccine which destroys Boyles argument that it was an accidental release.

  133. bjondo says:
    @another fred

    I am 73 years old, should live another 10 years (actuarily), and marvel at what I cost the Federal government in Social Security and Medicare.

    To me, your idiocy
    is the greatest burden.

    5ds

  134. @BDS Always

    aanirfan.blogspot.com : “Coronavirus – update ” :
    “Remember the 2009 Swine flu epidemic …the WHO Director-General, Margaret Chan, predicted with authority that as many as 2 billion people could become infected over the next two years …It was a multibillion bonanza for ‘big pharma ‘ but the pandemic never happened …millions of vaccine doses were subsequently destroyed : a financial bonanza for big pharma , an expenditure crisis for national governments ” And President Trump is about to sign a bill authorizing the expenditure of over $8 billion dollars to fight what he termed the “hoax” coronavirus outbreak which , according to him ,will be over in April.

  135. Tor597 says:
    @Ron Unz

    To provide a counter argument, it is known that this flu season in America was exceptionally bad. There was already an abnormal amount of deaths this flu season.

    Also, it is known that there are 2 variants of the Corona Virus. The S variant which is less lethal and the L variant that is more lethal.

    It’s possible that the S variant was spreading in America and then it mutated to the L variant which is the ultra infectious strain.

    This may be one of the reasons Trump does not want to test much not does he want to use WHO approved standards. Maybe he is afraid what the testing will reveal that there are already millions of people infected in America.

    • Agree: Godfree Roberts
  136. IF I were going to attack another nation with a virus it would kill the young. I would also be ruthless enough to use it to weed out my own population of “undesirables”.

    I would release it in a way that would spread fast in the enemy population (e.g, the Hajj if I were going to attack Muslims, football bowl season if I were going to attack America), and I would have a vaccine in my back pocket to “begin” producing when the epidemic revealed itself.

    Covid-19 is a very poor weapon. For anyone to release it intentionally they would have to be idiots. Bio warfare is coming, but this ain’t it.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  137. Turk 152 says:
    @another fred

    I could see it being Hillary’s Health Care Plan.

  138. JosephB says:
    @Lot

    Ron, you’re losing a ton of credibility for your intellect on this thread. A few items:

    1. Your knowledge of probability is painful.
    “It was released at the absolute worst time for China, just before Lunar New Year, when it could have easily spread throughout the country. Let’s say it was released during the worst ten-day window of a given year. The likelihood of this happening randomly (e.g. due to an accidental bioweapon release) is less than 3%, meaning that there’s a 97% the release was non-accidental.”

    The above paragraph reads more like a skit by a light-night comic than what I’d expect from you. 97%? Seriously? By your logic, pretty much *any* bad event occurring at a bad time will be non-accidental. “I got a flat tire on the day of my wedding. Truly that was the worst time, and there is only a 1/366 (leap year) chance of that occurring by accident. Therefore there is a 99.7% chance the flat tire was non-accidental.” (facepalm) Let’s try using some real math:

    P(bioweapon | released then) = P(released then| bioweapon) * P(bioweapon) / P(released then)

    Among other mistakes, you’ve ignored the unconditional P(bioweapon) term in your computation. If you were computing MLE such an approach would be appropriate. But for low-probability real-world events, computing MAP is far more appropriate and you need to consider the prior probability the event is a bioweapon.

    2. Calling a poster raising a couple of useful points a “troll” isn’t helping your case. I don’t like the Chinese government and think they’re brutal, but would need a ton of evidence before claiming they purposefully dumped bioweapons into a country they’re nominally friendly with.

    3. You assert there were 300 US soldiers there beforehand. The link you provided says they were there in late October. Okay…they hung out for a few months hoping no one would notice, then dumped the virus? Isn’t 300 people overkill from a standpoint of keeping the event a secret afterward (“Hey, does anyone know why we’re just sitting here for a few months?”)? Or was their fieldcraft so amazing that they planted it then in a way that it wouldn’t blossom until the appropriate time just before the holiday? That’s *unbelievably* good planning. Why not give the mission to a few plainclothes psychopathic CIA operatives? No obvious web trail for outsiders to point at, and about 295 fewer witnesses to keep the mission a secret?

    Ron, you’re getting into Moon landing hoax territory here. You’re not quite there, but it’s definitely in visual range.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @Iris
    , @Iris
  139. Trinity says:
    @Moi

    hahaha. There is some truth to this unfortunately.

  140. O. Zerk says:
    @Ron Unz

    How do you get the timing to work? The median incubation period of the coronavirus is reported as 5-6 days (by WHO) or 5-7 days (by Chinese Medical Association). The short end of the range is only 1 day. If someone released the virus on the last day of the games (Oct 27), why didn’t the first case show up until more than a month later (December 1)?

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  141. Trinity says:
    @Tor597

    lolol. Yep, lo and behold, Israel and ((( the chosen))) to the rescue of all humanity. (((They))) have suffered so much so it is only right that they heal the world. (((They))) might even go on to make an academy award Hollywood movie about this some day that will break all kinds of box office records. Maybe leftist Stephen King will make a cameo or at least the producers can give credit to lefty King’s best seller, “The Stand” as being an inspiration for the movie.

  142. Agent76 says:

    February 6, 2020 Man-Made Coronavirus Kills Hundreds (Bill Gates has a Vaccine for That)

    The measures being taken by governments around the world are drastic and unprecedented. The authority that these institutions are willing to assume in the face of a “health emergency” is concerning… and it’s only the beginning.

    https://thetruthaboutcancer.com/man-made-coronavirus-kills-hundreds/

    Dec 8, 2019 How To Strengthen Your Immune System Naturally!

    Dr. John Bergman and Justin Stellman from Extreme Health Radio discuss tips, ideas, biohacks and more to help boost and strengthen your immune system naturally.

    • Replies: @Trinity
  143. @Tor597

    …here is Isreal just weeks away with a vaccine which destroys Boyles argument…

    Funny how you spell “Israel”. Decades ago I saw a guy on the street wearing a T-shirt in capital letters (two lines) announcing “Israel Is Real”.

    You must be referring to the recent story about the Galilee Research Institute. They merely made a bold and optimistic statement, presumably to get funding. They had been working on a vaccine against avian coronavirus infectious bronchitis virus, which affects poultry and is purported to be merely 80% similar to the Wuhan coronavirus. They are not the only institute or company working on vaccines to combat coronaviruses; they just decided to toot their horn to get publicity.

    This doesn’t destroy Boyle’s argument. It also doesn’t destroy the argument I made.

  144. Trinity says:
    @Agent76

    I’m $ure the usual $uspects will be looking to ca$h in on this with all $orts of remedie$ and precaution$ to keep you dear citizen from falling victim to this deadly virus. (((Doctors))) will go on radio and Televitizion talk shows to tell us what needs to be done or promote their latest book, etc.
    Dr. (((Bergman))) and Dr. (((Stellman))), haha. Couple of Irish doctors, no doubt. They are mocking you, goyim.
    $mdh and thinking about how I can ca$h in as well. lololol.

    • Agree: Desert Fox
    • Replies: @Agent76
  145. melpol says:

    Opportunists African/Hispanic consortiums created a virus that would infect every other race but their own. Blacks in Africa or Hispanics In South America are immune to the virus. There is no antidote that can stop the Coronavirus, it will continue infecting those without black pigmentation or genes. The outcome is obvious, jungle cultures will rule the world.

  146. NPleeze says:
    @John Chuckman

    Israeli Indian Reservations

    The difference is, as oppressed as American Indians are, they have essentially the same rights as other Americans (whereas not even Israeli Arabs have nearly the rights of Israeli Jews – Palestinians have no rights whatsoever), and they are free to leave their reservations.

    Apartheid is a more apt metaphor, but it’s actually much worse than that even.

    • Agree: L.K
    • Replies: @Dave Bowman
  147. @Ron Unz

    I have been suspicious of it being a Chinese bioweapon all along. Why would the Chinese develop a bio-weapon to which Asians are more susceptible?
    Trump’s “its a hoax” may be closer to the truth than we believe:
    https://www.zerohedge.com/health/six-reasons-why-covid-19-fails-sniff-test

  148. @Canucky

    I used to work with an ex-soldier who was a test subject at Porton Down at some point in his in his army career.
    He told me that they would sometimes have a paste applied to their skin which would make them fall flat down on the ground.
    Never thought to ask him any more stuff about his time at Porton Down.

  149. The problem with flu statistics is that they are manipulated and grossly exaggerated by the CDC and its foundation to sell the flu vaccine which has become extremely profitable, like other vaccines , to pharmaceutical companies .See:” Big pharma and big profits : the multi-billion dollar vaccine market”globalresearch.ca “It’s flu shot propaganda season! Beware the big lies about the vaccine” By Jeremy Hammond, foreignpolicyjournal.com

    • Agree: Desert Fox, Alfred
  150. Amanda says:

    Coronavirus End Game: The Economic Crisis & Roll Out of the New Digital Financial System

    This is what Lynnette Zang has been warning about:

    Bankers New SDR Crypto Blockchain will Enslave Humanity

    [MORE]

    https://steemit.com/money/@sgtreport…y-lynette-zang

    The new Chinese-created ACChain crypto currency blockchain will be the SDR-related world currency that will allow the international banking elite to digitize every tangible asset on earth, and they will then exert total control over all of it.
    ITM Trading’s Lynette Zang explains:
    “The goal is to capture your wealth, and when the say this is the LAST wealth transfer mechanism they mean it because they want it all. All of it.”
    Intel Software designer Brad peters takes it one step further, saying:
    “If a global crypto coin controlled by the Bank For International Settlements (BIS) comes to internationalize PROPERTY onto their crypto blockchain, they get their one world government and one world currency all in the same stroke. This IS your 1988 (2018 prediction) Economist magazine cover.”

  151. Greg Bacon says: • Website
    @Gleimhart Mantooso

    Now that there have been about 347 articles here saying “Trump did Corona!

    The mental midget Trump is barely able to function as a human, let alone do something like launch the Corona virus against the Chinese and also the Iranians, but his slippery son-in-law, Jared the Snake, with all his Mossad contacts, does have the mental acuity to use a bio-weapon.

  152. Realist says:
    @Alfred

    In their environment, that is a much more important quality than almost useless things like intelligence.

    Well then by all means they should stay In their environment. I most vehemently disagree that intelligence is not important in all environments.

  153. Realist says:
    @Bard of Bumperstickers

    The anti-free market bankster cartel likes shooting fish in a barrel.

    That is absolutely correct.

  154. @Han 21

    I posted content almost identical to this on r/conspiracy a few days ago and got downvoted into insta-oblivion. Lots of public antagonism at-toward this bit.

  155. Agent76 says:
    @Trinity

    A mind is like a parachute it only operates when it is open.

    Nov 4, 2019 Event 201 Pandemic Exercise: Segment 4, Communications Discussion and Epilogue Video

    Event 201 is a pandemic tabletop exercise hosted by The Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security in partnership with the World Economic Forum and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation on October 18, 2019, in New York, NY. The exercise illustrated the pandemic preparedness efforts needed to diminish the large-scale economic and societal consequences of a severe pandemic.

    • Agree: Desert Fox
  156. VICB3 says:
    @A123

    Regardless of where it originated or how (or if) it escaped, this thing is being completely over-hyped. It generates ratings and web hits to be sure, but it also – and dangerously – validates and empowers every control freak bureaucrat who wants to limit and intrude on your freedom in the name of ‘protecting’ you.

    Anybody remember Y2K? Nothing happened then, and really nothing is going to happen now. As then, there will be a lot of pissed off survivalists wondering what they’re going to do with a garage full of toilet paper. More dangerously, there will be a lot of incompetent government agencies such as the TSA/Homeland Security who will try and extend their already objectionable mandates. But that will be it.

    So relax and take a nice vacation. Right now you can probably get a hell of a deal at a great resort.

    Just a thought.

    VicB3

  157. Lot says:
    @BL

    Unz caught the confirmationbias virus a long time ago and has been a super-spreader ever since.

    Coronavirus hits elderly smokers with preexisting lung disease the worst. The ConfirmbiasVirus hits paranoid misanthropes with preexisting mental disease worst.

    Yes, PG and RKU really are suggesting that American military athletes engaged in random mass murder on the direct of our government. Based on the fact they just happened to be in one of the largest cities in the world that regularly hosts international events.

    • LOL: CanSpeccy
    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  158. Ron Unz says:
    @Really No Shit

    Ron Unz must be losing sleep over the coronavirus issue for I have never seen so many comments by him on any single article.

    Ha, ha, ha. Well, it is the #1 news story in the world, filling more than 10 full pages in my morning NYT, most of them in the front section.

  159. Ron Unz says:
    @another fred

    Covid-19 is a very poor weapon. For anyone to release it intentionally they would have to be idiots. Bio warfare is coming, but this ain’t it.

    Well, the fatality rate seems only about 1-2%, so it’s obviously not designed to wipe out populations. However, it inflicted enormous damage on the Chinese economy, and if the PRC government hadn’t reacted so forcefully, it might have become a national pandemic, with the social/political/economic blow being far more severe.

    None of that proves it was a bioweapon attack, but if it were, it would have been a pretty effective one.

  160. Ron Unz says:
    @O. Zerk

    How do you get the timing to work? The median incubation period of the coronavirus is reported as 5-6 days (by WHO) or 5-7 days (by Chinese Medical Association). The short end of the range is only 1 day. If someone released the virus on the last day of the games (Oct 27), why didn’t the first case show up until more than a month later (December 1)?

    Well, don’t forget that the overwhelming majority of cases are fairly mild, and even the severe ones might have hardly been initially noticed in a city of 11M during ordinary flu season. The Chinese supposedly haven’t found Patient Zero, so it seems quite possible they missed many of the earliest cases.

    I think the estimates are that each infected individual typically passes it on to a couple of others. If so, then the incubation/doubling-time would be about a week, meaning that it might have taken most of November to infect enough individuals to finally gain attention. I’m absolutely no expert, but that seems plausible to me.

    Another possibility would be for the virus to be smeared on various surfaces or even left in time-release canisters. Presumably, bioweapons people have expertise in those sorts of techniques.

    The key thing is that the presence of so many foreign military officers in Wuhan—including 300 from the US—would make it especially easy for one or two agents to casually do that sort of thing unobserved. The coincidental timing really seems quite extraordinary.

  161. ld says:
    @John Chuckman

    Looks like the US has acquired many traits from Israel.

  162. Z-man says:
    @Alfred

    I would like to add Black Africans to that list. I suspect that they will not be much affected by this virus. Their immune systems are way ahead of that of any other peoples. In their environment, that is a much more important quality than almost useless things like intelligence.

    Funny and true!

    It’s ‘Bat Shit Crazy’! I’ve seen pictures of Chinese butcher shops with the ‘delicacies’ of skinned rats in the store windows. The Chinks did it to themseves and to us. It’s devastating to the Chinese economy but also to the West. Look at Italy, they have Chinese sweat shops in the north where they can’t get Italians to do that work plus they wanted Chinese $investment$ into Italy…well they got it and they paid the price.

    • Replies: @Alfred
  163. Ron Unz says:
    @JosephB

    Your knowledge of probability is painful…The above paragraph reads more like a skit by a light-night comic than what I’d expect from you. 97%? Seriously?

    Look, there are three cases:

    (1) The virus appeared naturally as a random mutation near the height of regular flu season, which seems perfectly possible. I think the most suspicious element is that there was immediately an especially deadly additional secondary outbreak in Iran, centered in its holy city of Qom, with much of that country’s political elites being very hard hit.

    (2) The virus was a bioweapon, but released through a random accident. This seems extremely implausible given that the random-release occurred at the absolute worst time for China.

    (3) A deliberate bioweapon attack, that hits China and Iran exactly at the time when America is most hostile to those two countries (and indeed almost simultaneously assassinated a top Iranian leader).

    I’m just saying that #2—“a random biowarfare accident”—should be discarded as too implausible to consider.

    • Replies: @A123
    , @JosephB
    , @Turk 152
    , @Sean
    , @Sam J.
  164. Ron Unz says:
    @Lot

    Unz caught the confirmationbias virus a long time ago and has been a super-spreader ever since.

    Coronavirus hits elderly smokers with preexisting lung disease the worst. The ConfirmbiasVirus hits paranoid misanthropes with preexisting mental disease worst.

    Yes, PG and RKU really are suggesting that American military athletes engaged in random mass murder on the direct of our government. Based on the fact they just happened to be in one of the largest cities in the world that regularly hosts international events.

    Well, as I’ve repeatedly emphasized, I haven’t seen any solid evidence that the virus was actually a bioweapon rather than just some natural mutation, though the especially severe outbreak in Iran does seem extremely *suspicious*. Moreover, I’ve never suggested that Israel was involved, with the severe Iran outbreak being about the only grounds for suspicion.

    However, everyone knows that “Lot” is one of the most fanatic pro-Israel activists on this website, so her very active involvement in this topic seems somewhat suspicious. This makes me wonder whether she herself does believe that Israel was probably responsible. “The guilty flee when no man pursueth”…

    • Replies: @chris
    , @BL
  165. This is becoming more bizarre by the day.

    Confirmed news now that the US CDC is not testing for the coronavirus. Not only were their original test kits flawed and therefore useless, and not only are the CDC apparently not producing new reliable tests, but they are refusing to test even severely ill patients unless those patients conform to a specific standard.

    Included in that ‘standard’ is a prerequisite that the patient have “traveled to a highly-infected area”. In other words, if you haven’t traveled to Iran, Italy or South Korea – or China, but not merely China but specifically Wuhan, the CDC will not test you.

    One documented case reported in the US media was a woman where the hospital tried for nearly a week but the CDC refused to administer a test even though the woman had been on a ventilator in the ICU for five days.

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/why-us-apparently-not-testing-covid-19-coronavirus/5705721

    Chinese genomics sequencing company BGI has obtained the highest level of approval for its test kits and has sold hundreds of thousands worldwide, to about 50 countries. If the CDC cannot make a reliable test, they could purchase them from China. But they won’t do that, and they apparently don’t want to make their own test kits.

    And in the meantime, coronavirus infections and deaths are being masked and attributed to something else.

    What the hell is going on?

  166. DFC says: • Website

    Hi all, look at the following statistics I have calculated with the data in Worldometer:

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

    Still we see that the fatality ratio is 3,41% globally (deaths/total cases), but globally the weight of China is huge, but now may be we can start to see more clearly when other countries started to make open statistics and making thousands or hundred thousands corona tests.

    For example the statistics of Italy are the following:

    [MORE]

    ITALY
    Total Nº cases 4.636
    Nº Deaths 197
    Rate deaths/total cases 4,25%
    Nº recovered 523
    Nº Serious-critical condition 462
    Rate serious-crit/total 9,97%
    Rate recovered/total 11,28%
    Rate serious-crit/active cases 11,23%
    Rate deaths/(deaths+recovered) 27,36%

    You can see that the Fatality Rate is 4,25%, higher than in China and globally, but YOU HAVE ONLY 11,3% OF PEOPLE RECOVERED , that means you do not have an outcome yet for the rest.
    If you consider the ratio deaths compare with the cases that have an outcome (recovered + dead), we have a fatality rate of 27,36%, in the case of China is 6% (but this could be false).

    When we now analyze the fatality rate of the 1918 Spanish Flu we analyze with all the people or recovered or dead, all have an outcome, and that is the only way to know the REAL fatality rate of an epidemic.

    Now we can see the numbers in the case of South Korea, another developed country with a modern health care system and after making more than 150.000 corona tests:

    SOUTH KOREA
    Total Nº cases 6.593
    Nº Deaths 43
    Rate deaths/total cases 0,65%
    Nº recovered 135
    Nº Serious-critical condition 52
    Rate serious-crit/total 0,79%
    Rate recovered/total 2,05%
    Rate serious-crit/active cases 0,81%
    Rate deaths/(deaths+recovered) 24,16%

    In the case of SK the fatality rate is very low, only 0,65%, but ALSO IS VERY LOW THE RECOVERED RATE, only 2,05% of people have recovered from the disease so far, so the number of case with an outcome is very low, but the fatality rate based on deaths divided by deaths+ recovered (cases with an outcome) is 24,16%, similar to the Italy, So the fatality rate in the cases with an outcome is very high still (> 20%). And now we know there are re-infection cases and people dying after “recovered” at least in China….

    So I do not know the total fatality ratio of this epidemic, but seems is quite high, and it seems it affects the white people (in North Italy) in similar ways as in Asia.

    This is NOT a “normal flu”, and this virus has many new and fantastic features, it affects strongly the CNS (Central Nervous System):

    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1002/jmv.25728

    Good luck
    Davud

  167. A bit of a meta/rambling comment here…

    Epistemological circumspection, probity, are always indicated, particularly when we have poverty-of-~~stimulus~~/data. It’s good to explicitly recognize how little we know, how many plausible possibilities are out there given the data on-hand.

    However, and I must mention this, the sheer volume of pro-grade trolling on this topic, with the old tropes about conspiracy-theorists originating posts JFK in full swell here. I was trying to read this comment thread and it reminded me of the hippy anecdotes from the 1960 about their various marches and demonstrations and so on, e.g. Chicago — where some estimates had that a majority of the participants were federal assets of one form or another.

    With the pressure on Unz, I’m thinking these trolls do protest a bit much for their own program.
    …I’ve never regretted reading Thomas Pynchon’s “Against the Day”. As a complement to William S. Burroughs’ “Red Nights” Trilogy, sequel to “Mason & Dixon”, altogether give the best composite picture of the relevant struggles. “Against the Day” has a long hard look at the Colorado miners and anarchists around the turn into the 20th century, and the Pinkerton (private forerunner to the corrupt FBI) mercs sent to hunt them down like dogs. Civilian casualties in these robber-baron vs folk wars were brutal. Ever since there has been a sizable middle-class cohort (the Pinks) willing to do great violence against American people in order to serve the interests of their masters. 1913 wouldn’t have been possible without these middlebrow lunkhead whore enforcers; in the 20th century their methods became ever more refined; with the television and associated tech of idiocracy seemed to auger the oligarchic utopia wherein an economically productive “consumer-moron” class could be kept in an infantile state indefinitely. This is of course a mirage, economic production cannot possibly be relatively maximized with a population of drooling retards, but this was the conventional ‘elite’ wisdom as little as 10 years ago. During the same epoch it was conventional ‘elite’ wisdom (e.g. even respectable liberal Havardy intellectuals such as Naked Capitalism’s Yves Smith) that America would have overwhelming and abject military superiority for the next century because “look at how much money we spend on the military”, as if money had some kind of hard correlation with engineering quality at all levels. One of the last times I read anything out of Naked Capitalism was when I read Yves confidantly explaining to her readership how the petrodollar would last to the 22nd century because of our overwhelming military dominance, because, look at the budgets. Incidentally, this was at a time when NC was linking heavily to Zero-Hedge articles, this must have been before they were considered alt-right and cancellable. 2008-2010ish, maybe a bit later too.

    Good article by Giraldi here, at least the author has the aforementioned epistemological circumspection, explicitly recognizing his limitations around forming any real conclusions.
    The negative indicator of the trolling volume lends some circumstantial credence to the notion that there is something to misdirect over, i.e. a biowarfare angle. Not sure it’s going to matter what we proles think, but if you have a stable of trolls to support, I guess you gotta use ’em or lose ’em.

    What a shitshow.

    Most of these people acting like overnight biochem PhDs breathlessly repeating some 15minute old trope should be ashamed of themselves. I welcome data links inputs to the thread, but people trying to direct conclusions on such basis is absurd.

    • Replies: @m___
  168. A123 says:
    @Ron Unz

    I’m just saying that #2—“a random biowarfare accident”—should be discarded as too implausible to consider.

    Corruption and incompetence are fairly common in Chinese government. Remember the diversion of resources from school construction that killed a number of Chinese children? (1)

    Corruption and shoddy construction behind school collapses in China earthquake

    While the quake was certainly a natural phenomenon, much of the destruction and many of the deaths could have been avoided. Of the 70,000 killed (not including 18,000 still missing and almost certainly dead), a large number—some 10,000—were students who died as school buildings collapsed.

    In many cases, relatively new schools were flattened in a matter of seconds, making it impossible for children to escape. By contrast, the surrounding buildings were often still standing, indicating serious structural problems in school construction. Angry parents denounced the schools as substandard “Tofu” projects—that is, as soft as Chinese bean curd—in which local officials and businessmen siphoned off public money.

    Central projects are also susceptible. Two high speed trains collided because the Chinese design team did not consider lightening strikes on exposed electrical equipment. (2)

    This pattern of misconduct and error is consistent with a number of potential accidental release as a scenarios:

    — Could a bureaucrat from the Wuhan lab sell broken or surplus equipment without proper decontamination?
    — What about disposal of lab animals that survived exposure?

    These possibilities seem highly plausible and should be considered.

    PEACE 😇
    _______

    (1) https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2008/10/chin-o16.html

    (2) https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/jul/25/chinese-rail-crash-cover-up-claims

    • Replies: @Z-man
    , @Lot
    , @Godfree Roberts
  169. Dumbo says:

    According to the news, supposedly there are today around 200 confirmed cases in the U.S., but 14 deaths. That’s 7%, so either there’s lots more of cases that no one knows about, or the death rate is higher than in other countries.

    That of course taking the media information at face value, which I don’t. I think there’s a lot of misinformation, as well as interest by the powers that be in creating panic.

    • Replies: @Alfred
  170. ld says:

    I just read this article from Global Research, seems plausible.
    In February of 2020, the Japanese Asahi news report (print and TV) claimed the coronavirus originated in the US, not in China, and that some (or many) of the 14,000 American deaths attributed to influenza may have in fact have resulted from the coronavirus. (5)
    https://www.globalresearch.ca/china-coronavirus-shocking-update/5705196

  171. Trinity says:

    Since I brought up the Stephen King novel, “The Stand” and I have noticed they are doing yet another remake by remaking another movie about King’s bestseller starring, Whoopi Goldberg as the old black lady who is the hero of course. I have another “conspiracy theory.” haha.

    Goldberg has sported this bizarre hairdo for at least 4 months maybe, part of her character, so is it a COHENcidence that they decided to make a movie based on a fictional novel about a deadly virus to be released sometime in the near future just at the right time when the real deal is actually happening in the world?? Think of the ticket $ales. Don’t know if this movie will hit the theaters or the small screen, but I can see lots of awards for the actors, directors and producers. hehe. Welcome to clown world, folks. This would be funny if it wasn’t so evil and diabolical.

    • Replies: @lysias
  172. Sean says:

    Good news for Britain because Germany will be in a far less strong position in China (buying German capital goods) is cut off at the knees. Bearing in mind that Spanish flu seems to have come from unwise disposal of horse manure on a WW1 US Army base, a similar vector and accidental origin in a jump from animal to human in China seems not unlikely. The Chinese are the most likely country in which people will go to work with flu, so I am pretty certain that the mortality of coronavirus in China is an artifact of Chinese individuals with the virus not reporting themselves sick and thus skewing the mortality entimates sky high.

    [MORE]

    As Marin Rees says (linked to right part of podcast above) “It was shown in 2011 that it is surprisingly easy to make flu viruses more virulent and transmissible”. The’ gain of function’ experiments on flu were banned, for a while.

    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/02/exclusive-controversial-experiments-make-bird-flu-more-risky-poised-resume

    EXCLUSIVE: Controversial experiments that could make bird flu more risky poised to resume
    By Jocelyn Kaiser Feb. 8, 2019 , 8:45 PM

    Coincidence ?

    America creating and then letting the Chinese use espionage to acquire the virus, then using US secret agents in China to compromise their isolation of the virus causing it to get out of China’s control and decimate China would be a clever stratagem, I am a little dubious that US scientist would be able to tune it for Iran though. It is an open question whether a program to develop a relatively high mortality u that was going to affect East Asians mainly is something that the Deep State could get its research scientists to work on. But then again a lot of scientist in the US probably Chinese and spies. Whites might well say it was unfeasible, quit or made desultory efforts as Werner Heisenberg did with the WW2 German atomic program.

    Yet. if the US had such a weapon it would have to assume that STEM rich China had one too and would retaliate, in the same way the Nazis thought the Allies must have gas. China has the genomes of every American who has been DNA sequenced, because 23 and me ECT use Chinese firms to do the actual sequencing. As with everything else the Chinese simply submit a quote below what it actually costs and they get the business. China’s concentration camps have unlimited amounts of semi Caucasian Uyghurs to experiment on too. The US would be much more limited, and would not really know what they had until it was released. They would have to have tested it to gauge its lethality, and yet how it would spread in a city (speed of spread affects virulence), I think it could be impossible to know with any degree of certainty that the virus was not going to kill 100 million on Chinese cities, and the Chinese would be able to work out who did it.

    Iran has not much in common with Italy genetically, although the latter is a very nepotistic country with even professionals such as lawyers and doctors occupying positions beyond their qualifications. I think the deaths in Italy there are due to incompetence that you would not find in Germany. Iran is doubtless even worse that Italy.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-51496830
    According to Prof Kate Jones of University College London, there is some evidence bats have adapted to the energetic demands of flight and are better at repairing DNA damage. “This might enable them to cope with a higher burden of viruses before getting sick – but this is just an idea at present.”

    There’s no doubt that the behaviour of bats allows viruses to thrive. “When you consider the very way that they live, then they are going to have a large array of viruses,” says Prof Jonathan Ball from the University of Nottingham. “And because they’re mammals there’s a possibility that some of them can infect humans either directly or through an intermediate host species.

    That would be Pangolins.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/coronavirus-pangolins-racism-why-conservationism-prejudice-shouldn-t-mix-ncna1136681

    Beaten, boiled alive, and driven to extinction. The sexual inadequacy of Chinese men is the worst thing that ever happened to the world’s wildlife. Rhino horn, Tiger bone wine, bear bile ECT. What can you expect from the Chinese one’party’ state harvesting organs from the 2-3 million Muslims and dissidents in concentration, rape torture and death camps as proven by the fact that transplants for foreigners were being openly booked a months in advance. Israel forbids going to China for transplants for that reason. They are indeed a light unto the nations.

  173. skrik says:

    In the same sense of Q: Who rules over you?

    A: Those whom you may not criticise [BDS, holohoax etc., say].

    Q: IF this Coronavirus is a bio-attack THEN who dunnit?

    A: Those with immunity to this same Coronavirus.

    Find them and you will have exposed the guilty party. rgds

  174. @Anonymous

    Nothing particularly brilliant about it. They’ve been doing this for over a hundred years.

    Whenever they need domestic subversion and societal degeneracy, they turn to the left. Whenever they need bombastic warmongering and dehumanization against “foreign” enemies, they turn to the right.

    The Left and The Right are not really in opposing camps, although they think they are. They are, in reality, the two arms of the same hideous body.

    Nothing demonstrates this more than reading the comment section of any China-related article on this website. The various Jewish hasbara agents and the WNs, who pretend to hold opposing views elsewhere, join in lockstep to screech their genocidal bloodlust and hatred for the Chinese people.

    It shows just how worthless and pathetic these WNs and alt-righters Ron Unz is obsessed with really are.

    • Replies: @GeeBee
    , @utu
    , @RRR
  175. Tor597 says:
    @Ayatollah Smith

    CDC does not want to widely test Americans because they are afraid of what they might find.

    Imagine if they widely tested Americans at the rate of South Korea and the result was there are MORE Americans infected than in China.

    That would cast serious doubt of where the virus originated from.

    Why else would Trump take such stance as to downplay the risk of the disease when that could seriously hurt him down the road.

    It would be easy for him to hype up the Corona Virus and blame China, but instead he is trying to downplay the epidemic because he does not want to test to many people.

  176. augusto says:
    @John Chuckman

    John Chuckman I totally agree with your views .
    All of it is no more a matter of opinion today, it is History.
    The US of A is, because they chose to be, the most criminal State in history. If anyone still objects to that I ‘ll recall the the Stalin period and its crimes were over exaggerated by the western media because it was their indisputable interest to swell its numbers up. And second I recall the all the Nazi criminal action period has only lasted for 12 years.

    • Agree: Agent76
    • LOL: eah
  177. @BL

    Alrighty, so what’s your theory about how 3 skyscrapers collapsed on the same day and fell into their own foot print at free-fall speed?
    The reason I ask is because if you say that the government’s 911 story is the correct one then I know you have zero credibility.

    • Replies: @Truth3
    , @BL
  178. Agent76 says:

    Feb 11, 2019 They Actually ADMITTED There’s No Money in Curing People

    Feb 26, 2017 Bill Gates Just Warned a New Bioweapon Will Wipe Out 30 Million

    • Replies: @Alfred
  179. JosephB says:
    @Ron Unz

    Ron, we agree there are 3 presumably non-overlapping and exhaustive cases. We also agree that the timing raises the probability of #3 relative to #1 and #2. We sharply differ on the timing making the other possibilities as “too implausible to consider.” The 97% figure you posted is just incorrect. There is no debate on that topic to be had.

    You should sit down with a friendly generalist AI researcher or specialist in uncertainty for a chat about using evidence to update probabilistic beliefs. You are systematically ignoring the prior probability of each event in making your decisions. It matters — honest. It’s why my hypothetical groom with the flat tire would be ill advised to try to exact revenge on the nearest garage that fixes tires.

    But, more broadly: what was the long-range plan for the US here?
    Step 1: infect China with a highly contagious virus
    Step 2: virus circulates the globe and infects the US and its allies
    Step 3: profit?

    Which country is more willing to take draconian security measures to stop the spread of the disease: China or the US? You grant the US supercompetence with its ability to manufacture, distribute, and time the occurrence of the virus to great effect. But they appear to be drooling idiots with the actual impact of the plan.

    • Replies: @lysias
  180. @Delta G

    The death toll is going down and down from a very small number. Just sayin’

    Remember swine flu?

  181. Diseases always come from China. They sleep in the same room with their pigs. Not all of them. Just the farmers. That’s enough.

  182. Greg Bacon says: • Website

    Must be nice to be able to predict the future…

    Scooter Libby–real name Irve Lewis Liebowitz Jr–helped develop the 1997 Project for the New American Century doc “Rebuilding America’s Defenses: Strategy, Forces, and Resources for a New Century,” which contained this ominous warning: “Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor.”

    Which the US got when the Israeli masterminded 9/11 false flag busted up the WTC.

    These days, Scooter is on the “Bipartisan Commission on Biodefense”

    The Bipartisan Commission on Biodefense conducted a year-long study of how the U.S. should address biological threats. The study covered human-generated (i.e., terrorism, warfare, accidents) and naturally occurring biological threats. The study culminated in a report to the public and Congress released on October 28, 2015.

    The group’s report was titled A National Blueprint for Biodefense. The report described many biological threats, including those posed by the Islamic State and Al Qaeda, as well as nation states, and “mishandling of lethal biological agents by the U.S. government,” as reasons for making biodefense a high national priority. This report contained 33 recommendations and over 80 specific action items associated with those recommendations.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipartisan_Commission_on_Biodefense

    Does Scooter know something us peons don’t?

    Did they already give some nasty stuff to their al CIA Duh buddies? Or maybe the White Helmets?

    • Replies: @Desert Fox
    , @geokat62
  183. Agent76 says:

    5 Mar, 2020 Сoronavirus may be a product of US ‘biological attack’ aimed at Iran & China, IRGC chief claims

    The US сould be the prime culprit behind Covid-2019 outbreak that hit China and then Iran, head of its elite Revolutionary Guards claimed, threatening that the virus will eventually be turned against those who unleashed it.

    https://www.rt.com/news/482405-iran-coronavirus-us-biological-weapon/

  184. lysias says:
    @JosephB

    If the coronavirus kills a lot of sick and old people in the West, that would be a big saving for Western countries.

    The coronavirus could also be a big opportunity for adopting measures for controlling the populace, like getting rid of cash.

  185. Isn’t the Coronavirus a psyop by the global elites with the complicity of World leaders such as President Xi in China ?Already the agenda in China has been accomplished with more censorship , mandatory vaccinations and increased surveillance . The outbreak appears to be almost over in China as Starbucks has reported that 90% of its cafes have re-opened . The psyop is still unfolding in Europe and the US and once the items on the agenda have been completed it will likely be brought to an end. In the US already one of the goals has been met by the authorization of over $8 billion dollars in Federal spending to combat the virus which will enormously benefit “big pharma”,reportedly the highest spending lobby in Washington.
    See: “Six ways why Coronavirus fails the sniff test-the Burning Platform” theburningplatform.com

  186. Z-man says:
    @A123

    It’s an ironic coincidence but 20 years ago a school in central Italy came down in an earthquake for the same reasons as above. Fortunately only 20 children died not thousands. Back then I wished that an old age home had collapsed instead since the Italians have plenty of old folks. Jee-sus forgive me.

  187. lysias says:
    @Trinity

    I wonder when the decision was made to do the remake of “The Stand”. Did somebody know something in advance?

    Like when that “Pearl Harbor” movie was made months before 9/11, and “24” was in production at the time of 9/11.

    • Replies: @Trinity
  188. Truth3 says:

    Nice job Mr. Giraldi.

    Was waiting for someone to notice the Iran / China early exposure.

    Lots of probability this whole thing was Israeli & US developed and released.

  189. utu says:
    @Ayatollah Smith

    Exclusive: The Strongest Evidence Yet That America Is Botching Coronavirus Testing (11:40 AM ET, Mar 6, 2020)

    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/03/how-many-americans-have-been-tested-coronavirus/607597/

    On Wednesday, Vice President Mike Pence promised that “roughly 1.5 million tests” would be available this week.

    But the number of tests performed across the country has fallen far short of those projections, despite extraordinarily high demand, The Atlantic has found.

    The Atlantic could only verify that 1,895 people have been tested for the coronavirus in the United States, about 10 percent of whom have tested positive.

    In South Korea, more than 66,650 people were tested within a week of its first case of community transmission, and it quickly became able to test 10,000 people a day. The United Kingdom, which has only 115 positive cases, has so far tested 18,083 people for the virus.

  190. @Greg Bacon

    They gave us the attack on the WTC on 911 in conjunction with the zionists in the ZUS government and all the cowards in the congress aka the lower house of the knesset know it.

  191. Truth3 says:
    @2stateshmustate

    The new benchmark…

    Odds of 9/11 being exactly as the Government says…

    .000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001%.

    Or less.

    Roughly the probability that the oxygen molecule that leaves your lungs last when you die is the same one that was the first breathed in by Jesus of Nazareth upon His birth.

    Or…

    The chances that Netanyahu is getting into Heaven when he dies.

    • Replies: @Agent76
  192. JosephF says:

    And of course we have comment 180, in which Joseph B buffs the old 1035-960 ¶4(c) turd, to wit, Why would CIA do something so stupid? It’s updated, of course, with the passé Simpsons allusion, ‘Step 3: Profit?’ vaguely implying that cost outweighs benefit, or disadvantages militate against infecting the subject population.

    CIA’s costs are minimal in the world’s shittiest health care system, because under regulatory capture by predatory insurers the subject population is forced to accept most of the financial and medical risk of treatment along with the externalities of contagion. The profit to CIA, or strictly speaking advantage, is war propaganda (e.g. framing the Wuhan lab) and justification for further repressive measures (such as quarantines, restrictions on movement, or intensified surveillance.) CIA broke BWC-illegal anthrax out of secure storage and infected the domestic population for exactly those reasons (if you can’t get this through your thick skull, read MacQueen, The 2001 Anthrax Deception.)

    As always, CIA did it because they can get away with it. The national interest has nothing whatever to do with CIA’s institutional interest, which is criminal enterprise. A tacit assumption that CIA aims to act in the national interest is the bedrock, foundational Big Lie of CIA apologetics – even Giraldi falls into it.

  193. @Ayatollah Smith

    If information about the virus is deliberately being muddied or outright discarded.

    That should tell you exactly what you need to know.

    Two possibilities. Either a bioweapon, and don’t want to give the rest of the world a solid confirmation. Which could lead to ww3. Or the virus is spreading, and don’t want to cause a panic in the USA. Especially since US govt have no way to organize a quarantine like the Chinese did. So essentially economics over safety.

    Denying and not collecting information serves those two exact purposes.

  194. m___ says:
    @anon8383892

    …that there is something to misdirect over, i.e. a biowarfare angle. Not sure it’s going to matter what we proles think, but if you have a stable of trolls to support, I guess you gotta use ’em or lose ’em.

    What a shitshow.

    Most of these people acting like overnight biochem PhDs breathlessly repeating some 15minute old trope should be ashamed of themselves. I welcome data links inputs to the thread, but people trying to direct conclusions on such basis is absurd.

    Trying to read meaningful snippets from the garbage bin of public fodder for consumption, a method, a means to an end. What a great analysis you presented, on tarot and crystal balling, that one, a well comprehensible chain of interactions, correlation very much evident.

  195. Lot says:
    @A123

    When bioweapon lab techs in Wuhan take bats and rabbits home from the lab and sell them for soup at filthy wet markets, the way Americans steal pens from work, I think accident is very possible.

    The same way Africans first got HIV by eating monkeys, the Chinese eat all sorts of exotic animals.

  196. @Ron Unz

    The virus was designed to inflict economic damage, not kill tens of millions. And in this, it has been a spectacular success so far. Unfortunately it’s also gotten completely out of control.

  197. GeeBee says:
    @Ghan-buri-Ghan

    Much of what you say is broadly true, but your analysis is fundamentally flawed, if only because it ignores a number of rather abstruse and difficult to accept (for the largely brainwashed majority at least) aspects of reality.

    The ‘Left’ and the ‘Right’ are – as you correctly state – broadly similar. You also invoke an undefined ‘They’ four or five times in your short post. ‘They’ (perhaps it ought better to be rendered as (((They))) ) do indeed alternate between courting first ‘the Left’ and then ‘the Right’ as needs dictate. Perhaps we should attempt to examine how it is that these seemingly opposed modern political entities are – as you rightly observe – essentially one and the same.

    [MORE]

    Take, for example, the defining Left-wing political element that we all call ‘socialism’. There are not one, but many flavours of socialism, but the only one that is today ‘allowed’ is more or less a wholly-owned subsidiary of the entity you choose to refer to by your anonymous ‘They’, who are, again as you imply, the same tribe that also owns the opposite side of this bogus coin, namely ‘Capitalism’.

    We should be careful not to confuse this ‘Capitalism’ with good old-fashioned Private Enterprise. While the latter is the mainspring of all free, functioning and healthy societies, the former is just another wholly-owned subsidiary of that same International Race whom you refer to as ‘They’. ‘They’, in fact, deploy their ‘Left’ and ‘Right’ wing assets in order to promote the false dichotomy of ‘Communism vs Capitalism’ as a way of ensuring that ‘the people’ are forever deprived of the opportunity to live in any such harmonious society.

    It is one of the most important, yet little understood aspects of our world, and it goes like this: under ‘Communism’ the government owns big business and controls the media. Under ‘Capitalism’ the government is owned by big business and controlled by the media. Thus under both systems ‘They’ get to do what they want. ‘Communism’ is not socialism – at least where socialism is defined as a system which delivers the greatest good to the many, not the few. Orwell’s ‘1984’ is as good a summation as any of what life under Marxist-Leninist ‘Communism’ is actually like. To quote from it: ‘a boot stamping on a human face forever’.

    ‘Ethical’ forms of socialism (as Spengler described National Socialism, for example) are strictly verboten. They have been cast into the uttermost pits of hell by the tsunami of propaganda that has, since 1945, persuaded ‘the people’ into hating any route towards deliverance from their serfdom, which of course ‘They’ impose.

    Today, ‘They’ – the ‘Globalist’ Neo-Liberal elite – has got us where it always wanted us: a dismal morass of homogenised and deracinated mass consumers, specimens of Homo economicus, all dutifully buying junk we don’t need using money we don’t have and uncomplainingly paying ‘Them’ usurious interest for the privilege of our abject lives in ‘The Twilight of the Gods’.

    Yes, ‘White Nationalists’ can be extremely naive and embarrassing. But their seemingly irrational hatred for non-whites is, in fact, bogus. It is little more than an outlet for and an impotent reaction to a lurking, yet ill-defined rage at the actuality of their subjugation, indeed their prostration, before ‘They who must not be named’.

    Not until we see the bankruptcy of fighting a false political battle on ground which ‘They’ choose will there be any glimmer of hope. That ground is, of course, ‘Democracy’. This in essence today consist in offering ‘the people’ the bogus ‘choice’ of voting for ‘Agenda A’ in a blue rosette or ‘Agenda A’ in a red rosette (where ‘Agenda A’ is a Globalist Neo-Liberal dystopia benefitting a vanishingly tiny elite).

    • Replies: @Ghan-buri-Ghan
  198. ziggurat says:
    @Ron Unz

    As Scott Adams says, there’s always a tendency to perceive more meaning in coincidences than may be reasonable.

    For example, here are two competing conspiracy theories that both have supporting evidence that seems like more than mere coincidence:

    1) China either purposefully or accidentally released the virus from a nearby lab, and now they are trying to cover up the true source. After all, can it really be just a coincidence that there was a nearby lab?

    2) The U.S. released the virus when the 300 American military servicemen visited Wuhan just 2 weeks prior. Can it really be just a coincidence that these 300 servicemen arrived just 2 weeks prior?

    But both conspiracies cannot be true. No one is saying that China and the U.S. were working together to create and spread the virus.

    So, at least one piece of supporting evidence is just a mere coincidence that had nothing to do with the creation and spread of the virus. Another possibility is both are mere coincidences.

    But I think it’s good to consider the possibility of conspiracies, because some conspiracies are true. It’s hard to find the right balance between being naive and being full of incorrect, cynical beliefs. I think you just have to weigh the degree of confidence that is reasonable, given the evidence.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  199. Turk 152 says:
    @Ron Unz

    “(2) The virus was a bioweapon, but released through a random accident. This seems extremely implausible given that the random-release occurred at the absolute worst time for China.”

    Chinese New Years certainly makes (2) suspicious as does the Iranian outbreak. It undoubtedly deserves more scrutiny, there just isnt enough evidence yet to call (2) extremely implausible, unlikely perhaps.

    However, I have heard rumors from a friend of a friend who has access to government circles and I believe that it is indeed what they are saying, so it would not be surprising if you have confidential information. As you are well aware, with the intelligence community being the source of many conspiracy theories, i.e. WMD, there is always spin and counter spin occurring simultaneously during an operation. I am sure they would not waste such a golden opportunity to further their indoctrination, if for nothing else than to draw the attention away from their own incompetence in dealing with the crisis.

  200. @A123

    Let’s get this straight.
    You are arguing that the presence of a group of military age Americans, possibly posing as ‘athletes’, in Wuhan makes it less likely that the Americans released the virus?
    You are an absolute moron.
    China’s Ministry of State Security could not possibly monitor 300 people 24 hours a day. They would require as many as 300 teams of 4 men. 2 shifts of 9 hours a day makes 2400 men in total who are able to follow a subject in groups of 4 without being noticed. People with this type of training don’t grow on trees.
    These types of events are a nightmare for security details. Even using the omni-present security cameras, often low-resultion or stained by dust and pollution,the human factor is a problem. The need for physical manpower is, as I have shown, extensive. Without a specific tip, the Chinese would have no hope in hell of pulling that one off on short notice. Based on this simply math, it is obvious that a large gathering, such as an athletic competition, is perfect to catch the home team guys undermanned by slipping in a group of 20 specialist in Bio-Warfare into a large group of 300.
    Ditto for a country like Iran. Do you realize how easy it is for people who have a talent for lock picking? The average lock is bypassed in under 2 minutes. Ventilation systems are also really easy to access. Even closed societies are vulnerable to bio-attack. Imam Khomeini International Airport, in Tehran, is a busy place. Plenty of teams would be able to hit Iran just by taking a connector through that hub.
    I consider the Iranian outbreak the likely result of the intense business ties between China and Iran; they are busy right now signing contracts for oil and other business deals. All the insiders have to line up and mate with the appropriate envelope right?

    What these logistics that I have outlined really show is that, predominantly, a state of order is the normal course of events. What normally prevents one state from attacking another state is fear of reprisals. Obviously, someone felt the stakes were high enough to give it a go. Now, just like after the death of Soleimani the world waits for the inevitable act of revenge. Unlike the still semi-unconfirmed death of Michael D’Andrea, CIA Head of Islamic Assassinations, we will probably be waiting a long time to see China feast on its revenge.

    • Replies: @A123
  201. The sad thing about all these CIA bots yammering how it can’t be, cause REASONS!! is that CIA is busted and the whole world knows it – except for the subject population in the USA. Fletcher Prouty explained this syndrome back in the 70s. CIA’s criminal enterprise is carried out on such a massive scale that they can’t hide it. All they can do is brainwash the subject population to keep them unaware.

    BWC treaty parties mutinied at the last review conference, denouncing US breaches and subversion of the object and purpose of the treaty. The article below is a précis of Russia’s bill of indictment:

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/russian-government-violation-by-the-us-of-its-obligations-in-the-sphere-of-nonproliferation-of-wmd/20564

    International civil society has CIA by the short hairs, dead to rights with open-source information:

    https://21stcenturywire.com/2018/01/21/wmd-america-inside-pentagons-global-bioweapons-industry/

    CIA dead-enders are repeating the same bullshit slogans they dreamed up when they whacked JFK and took over, even though everybody with a 3-digit IQ is onto them now. CIA has been using germ warfare for 70 years. Of course they infected us with COVID-19 too. They won’t stop till we put their heads on sticks.

    • Replies: @Nonny Mouse
  202. geokat62 says:
    @Greg Bacon

    Does Scooter know something us peons don’t?

    Could it be these two black ops: Project Pogo and Project Zyphr?

    http://themillenniumreport.com/2019/09/project-pogo-project-zyphr-it-doesnt-get-more-serious-than-these-two-black-ops/

  203. @Delta G

    You do not not need a Ph.d to think. A Ph.d simply means your thinking is approved by those who gave it to you.

    • Agree: another fred
    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  204. Skeptikal says:

    “I read that a bat carries up to 500 viruses, many different cold or corona virus strains.”

    Could that be because most bats (that is, most bat species) nourish themselves by sucking the blood of warm-blooded animals?

    • Replies: @another fred
    , @Sparkon
    , @Jiminy
  205. Anonymous[239] • Disclaimer says:

    Top of thread is some bad info. Not sure if Ron Unz meant Chinese population of Milan but said Italy instead.

    Chinese in Italy ~330k (not including illegals which is substantial maybe another 100k or more)

    Chinese in Milano ~20k

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_people_in_Italy

    FACT: THERE IS A LARGE CHINESE WORKER COLONY IN ITALY

    HOW MANY ARE WORKING IN ELDER CARE INDUSTRY?

    NO ONE KNOWS BECAUSE MEDIA BLACKOUT IS IN EFFECT

    • Agree: Ron Unz
    • Thanks: Z-man
    • Replies: @eah
  206. utu says:

    Can we compare the flu in the US and coronavirus in China? Can we trust the numbers? Does the CDC even know the true numbers? Is it possible the the methodology used precludes the knowledge of true numbers?

    This Is How Many People Die From the Flu Each Year, According to the CDC
    https://www.health.com/condition/cold-flu-sinus/how-many-people-die-of-the-flu-every-year

    Flu season is hitting its stride right now in the US. So far, the CDC has estimated (based on weekly influenza surveillance data) that at least 12,000 people have died from influenza between Oct. 1, 2019 through Feb. 1, 2020, and the number of deaths may be as high as 30,000.

    The CDC also estimates that up to 31 million Americans have caught the flu this season, with 210,000 to 370,000 flu sufferers hospitalized because of the virus.

    The number of 31 million is model estimate. CDC does no know how many people actually were infected. Thus they can’t calculate the mortality rate. The other numbers they give are also estimates: 12,000 – 30,000 dead and 210,000-370,000 hospitalized. What would be the mortality rate for the flu this years so far? 30,000/31 mil ≈ 0.1%. or 30,000/370,000 ≈ 8%? Is it possible that among the numbers there are coronavirus cases that has not been detected?

    OTOH, we seem to have numbers form China about coronavirus.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
    Chine Total cases= 80,576 Dead=3,042 Mortality rate= 3.77%

    Are the numbers really well defined? How do they define the total cases? How many people were infected who are below the radar because they never had significant symptoms? Is it possible that mortality rate is significantly lower (like an order of magnitude) than 3.77%.

    How accurately can Chinese differentiate between coronavirus cases and regular flu cases that might be an order of magnitude more frequent than coronavirus cases?

    What question should we be asking? Is Trump correct by downplaying it and thinking only about economy or did China overreact by going medieval on it?

    To Take On the Coronavirus, Go Medieval on It
    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/28/sunday-review/coronavirus-quarantine.html

    Is it possible that China “medieval” reaction can be explained by their belief that they were under attack and that the virus was race specific? Was their belief correct or did they overreact?

  207. Anon[200] • Disclaimer says:

    WSJ had an article on all the virology labs in the world. Two dozen countries have these bio labs. The US by far has the largest number of BSL-4 bioweapons labs, a total of 10 with 2 more new/planned. The UK is next with 4, and 1 new/planned. China has 3 — all new/planned. India has 2, one BSL-3+ and a BSL-4. Israel curiously is not on the list, which makes you wonder how they could so quickly come up with a vaccine:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/coronavirus-epidemic-draws-scrutiny-to-labs-handling-deadly-pathogens-11583349777

    There has certainly been a concerted effort by the Ziocons to capitalize on this crisis and kick China while they’re down. Ziocon mouthpiece Brietbart daily uses the headline “Chinese coronavirus”. Ziohedge (Zerohedge), the #1 coronavirus hysteria propagating machine has had daily articles attacking China and the Chinese government. It was also the first to claim it was from the Wuhan lab and showed the picture of the scientist they claimed to be responsible, which got them banned from Twitter.

    Yesterday Pompeo claimed that China is “withholding info” making it difficult for US to make preparations. The US has had nearly 2 months to get ready and they failed, so the scapegoating has begun.

    Of course, right after China quarantined Wuhan, the Trump admin came out with one hit after another, first charging Huawei with RICO, then telling our European allies “The West is winning” and “China is our #1 enemy”, then trying to ban GE from selling their jet engine to China, and banning all companies all over the world from selling key components to Huawei. So brazen and shameless. Only Ziocons can do something like this. Win at all cost.

    But now that the virus has infected Wall Street, we will see how well this “kick them while they’re down” strategy works out for the Trump admin. As more cases will undoubtedly pop up and we will undoubtedly see more of US government’s incompetence and spin control, we will see if Pompeo the evil fat fuck has scored a goal against his own team.

  208. Sean says:
    @Ron Unz

    1) China has contacts with Iran and the elite would be the ones travelling to China and meeting people from or with with contacts in Qom when returning. Chinese people would tend not to report sick so the epidemic was probably running a longer time than realised because there are a massive number of unreported cases. Thus the Iran outbreak was less contemporaneous withe Chinese one than it seemed.

    2) Could be a lab escape of a virus created in gain of function experiments on flu, so not a bioweapon lab accidental reases just a lab accident

    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/02/exclusive-controversial-experiments-make-bird-flu-more-risky-poised-resume

    EXCLUSIVE: Controversial experiments that could make bird flu more risky poised to resume
    By Jocelyn Kaiser Feb. 8, 2019 , 8:45 PM

    3) A deliberate bioweapon attack that hits China would be a little risky as China has nuclear weapons and combination of the virus killing more Chinese than the US realised and Chinese leadership overreacting could see a specimen nuclear strike on a US city. Conventionally I think it would be inevitable that North Koreans with Chinese volunteers would invade South Korea, and trap the US army there

    • Replies: @Anon
  209. Trinity says:
    @lysias

    Making (((money))) off of tragedies. “Never let a good crisis go to waste.” We are dealing with PURE EVIL HERE, folks.

  210. A123 says:
    @steinbergfeldwitzcohen

    Let me get this straight.

    — Do you actually believe that the Chinese government did not separate the U.S. troops from their equipment for inspection?
    — Do you believe that something that could be used to stabilize and weaponize a virus is tiny and undetectable?
    — Do you believe what you see in James Bond films is real?

    For the U.S. to use known Americans in an attack on China is wholly implausible. Given that the virus is spreading everywhere there is no logical reason to believe it was an attack.

    No means, No motive, No conspiracy

    Had this been a desperate & failing Globalist President, Hillary “War is Proftable” Clinton, maybe you could create a plausible scenario. With a 100% win chance in the bag against the incompetent Dems, there is no plausible reason for Trump to do anything this rash. It makes no sense.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @lysias
    , @denk
  211. chris says:
    @John Chuckman

    Great point(s) John, it reminds me a little of when the Clinton Lewinski scandal broke, and Clinton’s entire cabinet came out endorsing the president, saying that they accepted his word that he had not had any undue relations with that tramp.

    Joseph Sobran commented at that time that many expressed their support for Clinton and took him at his word, however, no one supported him by saying that it was just not the kind of thing he, or a man like him would ever do.

    I think what you and Phil and Ron are all saying it that none of you and us will put it past the current US.gov or their Israeli masters to do such a thing.

    • Replies: @Sean
  212. chris says:
    @Ron Unz

    “The lady doth protest too much, methinks” too

  213. Anon[111] • Disclaimer says:

    2 can paly at any game. If the AngloZions did this, and China reverse-tracks it to them, next years flu season could be epic in New York/Washington/Tel Aviv. Just think of all those DNA samples that Chinese Doctors might have collected that could help synthesize a virus that could be potentially deadly to specific populations they suspect might be responsible.

  214. Anon[200] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean

    Honestly anyone who thinks China would use a nuclear weapon against the US is just not thinking straight, to put it mildly. It is the typical Western yellow peril paranoia that’s infected all the Zionists. Everything is an existential crisis to these paranoid warmongers.

    Unlike the blood thirsty Ziocons driven by the military industrial complex, China is a paper tiger. These are the same people who discovered Africa and just wanted to trade for some exotic animals and go home, unlike the Europeans who immediately attacked, enslaved and plundered the natives wherever they landed. Their nuclear weapons are for defense not offense. They would never instigate war with anyone esp. the US, at least not for the next forty years, when we are their biggest customer. Attacking us would be self-destructive, the equivalent of scoring their own goal. Only an evil fat fuck like Pompeo would do something so stupid.

    • Replies: @Sean
  215. Sean says:
    @chris

    I think what you and Phil and Ron are all saying it that none of you and us will put it past the current US.gov or their Israeli masters to do such a thing.

    What could possibly be in it for Israel? They would be opposed.

    • Troll: Trinity
    • Replies: @Lot
    , @FLgeezer
    , @Tlotsi
  216. buzzwar says:
    @A123

    “the action would have to be taken by a group that is an enemy of both China and the U.S.”
    There is only one group(i.e. A country) that is an enemy of both China and the U.S: ISRAEL

    • Agree: Tlotsi
    • Replies: @Trinity
  217. Dannyboy says:
    @John Chuckman

    So, yes, the United States is indeed today quite capable of using bio-warfare.

    LOL… Thankfully,(whatever nation you reside in) the Chinese and the Russians and the Israelis and the British and the French and the Germans etc..etc.. are above that sort of behavior.

  218. @Skeptikal

    Could that be because…

    One of the main reasons is that they roost in such crowded numbers. Herd immunity must be high or they do not survive.

    Modern humans have a much higher immunity than those before civilization and farming created such crowded conditions for us. If we live like Asians for a few centuries our immunity must necessarily rise.

  219. @Neo

    According to Wikipedia, 9,308 athletes from more than 140 countries participated in the 2019 Military World Games.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Military_World_Games

  220. @GeeBee

    Good post. Concepts like capitalism, socialism, and communism once held some sort of meaning I’m sure, but are now mere ideological abstractions to distract and confuse the goyim with.

    Yes, ‘White Nationalists’ can be extremely naive and embarrassing. But their seemingly irrational hatred for non-whites is, in fact, bogus. It is little more than an outlet for and an impotent reaction to a lurking, yet ill-defined rage at the actuality of their subjugation, indeed their prostration, before ‘They who must not be named’.

    Indeed, the Jews have been merciless and entirely wicked in the manner in which they’ve carried out the subjugation of these people.

    But, how can one not feel equal contempt and loathing for the dumb goyim cattle who eagerly follow along with their masters’ plans?

    For instance, what do these WN goons think will happen when their Jewish masters destroy China, thus taking complete control of every major power on the planet? Can they not think two steps ahead? Do they think their Jewish masters will make life better for them once they have achieved total domination? Their incredible stupidity combined with their vile bloodlust toward innocent third-parties makes it impossible to muster up any sympathy for such creatures.

    WWIII is shaping up to be a nearly identical repeat of WWII. And when we look back at the totality of world history, the illusory “West” these cretins croon about so much will not be covered in glory.

    • Agree: Beefcake the Mighty
    • Replies: @GeeBee
  221. Iris says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    From Arab media (translated and emphasis added ):

    ” For the second time, an Iranian official stated that what Iran, China and a number of other countries have suffered from the Corona virus epidemic was a terrorist biological attack.

    The official Iranian statement came out this time from a member of the National Security and Foreign Policy Committee of the Iranian Parliament, Heshmatullah Felahath Beesha, who affirmed that the “Corona” outbreak in China and Iran was caused by a biological terrorist attack.

    The Iranian official issued alarming warnings as he said: “From today until 2030, the world will be facing various types of terrorist biological attacks, so an independent institution should be formed [in Iran] with special powers, and we should have defensive anti-biological means similar to anti-missile defense.”

    And Felahath Beesha expressed his belief that US President Donald Trump and his Secretary of State Mike Pompeo were delighted at what is happening today in Iran and said: “The Americans will not provide us with assistance. They have made all possible efforts to increase the sanctions on the import of medicines. Iran needs to import three percent of the medicines it requires, but is unable to do so because of the sanctions. If Trump and Pompeo were honest and worried about the outbreak of Corona in Iran and the region, they would lift the sanctions. ”

    Tasnim International News Agency [close to the IRGC] had announced that the assistant to the head of the Academy for Joint Islamic Studies within the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and former ambassador 0f Iran to Syria, Hussein Sheikh Al-Islam died after his struggle with Covid-9.”

    So the deceased is the official tasked with bringing together Shia and Sunni schools of thought, a very important role to achieving an alliance with Iraq.

    And Covid-19 is incomparably more successful causing disruption in Iran than the “colour revolution” and engineered social unrest that Israel and the Trump administration openly called for after the assassination of Qasem Soleimani.

    https://ida2at.org/news/2020/03/06/5998/للمرة-الثانية-إيران-تؤكد-أن-كورونا-هجوم-بيلوجي-إرهابي

  222. lysias says:
    @A123

    You think the President has to approve everything that DOD does?

    • Replies: @A123
  223. Lot says:
    @Sean

    “ What could possibly be in it for Israel? ”

    Sean my man, that’s not how the paranoid antisemite mind works!

    The way to do it is assume the Jews (or Americans) did something bad, and then look *highly suspicious* connections.

    Motive? Our mild strategic rivalry, which doesn’t preclude us from having hundreds of billions of bilateral trade, creates the motive for the USA to want to randomly kill thousands of old Chinese guys.

  224. @Haspel's Syndrome

    Thanks, Syndie. That second link is absolutely breathtaking. CIA with many bioweapon centres / labs all over Africa and Asia, all directed at Russia and China, partly privatized to break the chains of responsibility / liability. And the CIA is itself privatized, isn’t it? Finances itself with its monopoly over the opium trade, right?

    All needed for an important reason of course: the threat posed by Russia and China.

  225. Sean says:
    @Anon

    Unlike the blood thirsty Ziocons driven by the military industrial complex,

    Can’t have your cake and eat it; either is Israel in charge or the MIC

    Honestly anyone who thinks China would use a nuclear weapon against the US is just not thinking straight, to put it mildly. It is the typical Western yellow peril paranoia that’s infected all the Zionists.

    China has repeatedly threatened is to nuke the US in a war over Taiwan.

    Their nuclear weapons are for defense not offense

    So are everyone’s, which is why no one would start a nuclear war by first use of nukes. But neither America or Russia fighting alone could win a conventional land war with China now. China could take Vladivostok or South Korea any time it felt like it. In the aftermath of a biological weapons attack they would absolutely have to. And that is why no one would dare attack China with biological weapons,

    • Replies: @Anon
  226. @Ron Unz

    Well, I have a slight quibble with your first assessment of the probability of release before the Lunar New Year. It seems to me that given that the Lunar New Year begins around January 25 this year, less than a month after the first cases are reported, if I have the facts right, and assuming a uniform distribution for this probability, the probability of a random outbreak is roughly 1/12 at most, which is less than 92 percent probability of deliberate release. Of course, the latter probability could be even greater if you want to take the exact time difference between the initial outbreak and the Lunar New Year. However, there are too many unknowns here, so I think 97 percent is likely too high a number. But I’d be interested in hearing how you arrived at it.

  227. @Greg Bacon

    Orange Man Bad!

    The Chinese also have the mental acuity for same. They have a huge burden of hundreds of millions of people too old to manufacturer their Chinese crap. The current virus is merely a test run—a weaker form of the real deal which, when it is finally released, will winnow their aged and decrepit to more manageable levels, thereby increasing the efficiency of the state. The “important people” there have already received a vaccine for the current virus, and will receive another for the next one.

    See, I can speculate, too. It’s so much fun.

    • Replies: @lysias
  228. @Ron Unz

    I wanted to delete “at most” from the above, but something went wrong.

  229. utu says:
    @Ghan-buri-Ghan

    Nothing demonstrates this more than reading the comment section of any China-related article on this website. The various Jewish hasbara agents and the WNs, who pretend to hold opposing views elsewhere, join in lockstep to screech their genocidal bloodlust and hatred for the Chinese people.

    You should not be too surprised. The WN-ism preached here is a part of Jewish supremacism. You are not allowed to become a WN-ist before acknowledging the Jewish supremacy. Read Sailer, Derbyshire and all other IQWists and HBDers there are and you will get it.

    • Agree: Ghan-buri-Ghan
  230. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @ziggurat

    No one is saying that China and the U.S. were working together to create and spread the virus.

    Actually, I did say just that.

    But I think it’s good to consider the possibility of conspiracies, because some conspiracies are true. It’s hard to find the right balance between being naive and being full of incorrect, cynical beliefs. I think you just have to weigh the degree of confidence that is reasonable, given the evidence.

    The fact is, nobody here knows nothing that points strongly in any particular direction. But while we’re speculating, here’s another idea: the virus was released by the US to provide Trump a excuse for the stock market crash.that was overdue and likely to impair his reelection chances.

  231. BL says:
    @2stateshmustate

    Uh huh. We can say the same of many incidents say, for example, The Kennedy Assassination.

    That goes directly to my point that the official story — and, actually, many of the unofficial stories as well — are functionally disconnected from the incident itself.

    A textbook example is the Pan Am 103 downing over Lockerbie. It sure looks in hindsight that Iran was responsible. Yet the USG played along in Iran setting up Libya taking the fall. That served the interests of both as Iran had downed the plane as payback for the Vincennes shoot-down of Iran flight 655.

    As the POTUS says, “It’s complicated business folks.”

    I know it’s hard for you to hear but your search for the truth is a fool’s errand. Under the totality of the circumstances it is that way by design, both in the planning and afterward.

    But you strike me as one of those who’s always at the ready to head down the rabbit hole. After all, unlike 9/11, or even the Anthrax Attacks that immediately followed, the Coronavirus is about as half-assed a bioweapon imaginable, unless you’re out to get elderly people and those with weak immune systems.

    Interestingly, like with pretty much everything these days, the response to the Coronavirus outbreak has quickly split along Red State/Blue State psychological lines. With the Blues pants pissing and trying to engender panic to exploit politically. With Red State denizens remaining calm and collected, and taking it as it comes.

  232. @ThreeCranes

    Breaking up two intertwined economies is bent done swiftly and brutally. Thus, no long tearful goodbye sighs.

    • Agree: Beefcake the Mighty
  233. @Ron Unz

    There are two strains: S and L.
    The S is older but the L is more virulent.

  234. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @ploni almoni

    A Ph.d simply means your thinking is approved by those who gave it to you.

    The Canadian humorist and McGill University economics professor, Stephen Leacock, maintained that Ph.D. stood for Philled-up.

  235. @BDS Always

    I watched the film and then tried to find information on the computer because I never hear about the findings noted by AV8. There were a few article on Staph, Strep and Bacteroides nasal colonization.
    I will have to check further because all sources in America- Infectious Disease societies, immunization and allergy societies, and many more encourage getting the yearly flu vaccine.
    In the film the emphasis seemed to be on the live attenuated influenza vaccine whereas most of us year after year have gotten the inactivated vaccine.

  236. @Ron Unz

    Was there (is there still) a coronavirus epidemic in America? Well, isn’t there one every year during the flu and cold season?

    Coronavirus is a generic term.

    Co·ro·na·vi·rus (kō-rō’nă-vī’rŭs),

    A genus in the family Coronaviridae that is associated with upper respiratory tract infections and possibly gastroenteritis in humans.

    The type of coronavirus that killed people in Wuhan, China was a new type and hence it was called “novel coronavirus” which was later changed to “Covid-19”– I think the name change had more to do with their occult “9/11” rituals than anything else… but I digress.

    We will never know the truth about what really killed those Americans, but one thing is for certain: they can design viruses to kill anybody and any race they want.

    The Center for Disease Control & Prevention (CDC) located in Atlanta, Georgia was granted a patent in 2007 for a coronavirus that can cause acute respiratory syndrome (SARS).

    Coronavirus isolated from humans

    Abstract

    Disclosed herein is a newly isolated human coronavirus (SARS-CoV), the causative agent of severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS). Also provided are the nucleic acid sequence of the SARS-CoV genome and the amino acid sequences of the SARS-CoV open reading frames, as well as methods of using these molecules to detect a SARS-CoV and detect infections therewith. Immune stimulatory compositions are also provided, along with methods of their use.

    Cf. Patent US7220852B1

  237. BL says:
    @Ayatollah Smith

    Oh boy, and that goes double for the three who responded to you!

    Coronavirus ain’t Ebola. The mortality rate is low, and more to the point, concentrated in the elderly and those with medical conditions. In other words, the same poor souls who die from the flu.

    From the get-go, the real risk has been from panic that induces behavior that overwhelms medical infrastructure.

    The Democrats and their allied media have been working overtime to generate panic that they can then exploit politically against the POTUS. After some early failures, they settled on the lack of available test kits nonsense. A word to the wise, there is no vaccine or specific treatment for Coronavirus. Severe cases, those with severe respiratory problems are — get ready for it — put on a respirator. There are a limited number of those and beds in intensive care. Even fewer in quarantined facilities.

    Thus, the worst possible outcome is selfish Democrats insisting on being tested — probably every day in Washington DC — if they feel a tickle in their throats and probably even if they don’t.

    I heard on the MSNBC tonight that soon test kits to test millions will soon be available. Unless I mis my mark, the Pharma companies will make a mint administering these tests on as frequent a basis as all the big babies desire.

    • LOL: Turk 152
  238. BL says:
    @Ron Unz

    However, everyone knows that “Lot” is one of the most fanatic pro-Israel activists on this website, so her very active involvement in this topic seems somewhat suspicious. This makes me wonder whether she herself does believe that Israel was probably responsible. “The guilty flee when no man pursueth”…

    You have to have cribbed that from Andrew Weissmann’s “Mueller Report.” Trump defended himself so he must be guilty!

    As for Iran, let’s just say conditions there are ripe for a virus to inflict damage. Viruses, which aren’t alive, just bits of errant code, if you will, are able to inflict greater damage in societies under great stress:

    https://asiatimes.com/2020/01/how-fragile-is-irans-regime-2/

  239. @Wizard of Oz

    Nice try. Expect a little something in your pay envelope.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  240. Anon[279] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean

    I have no doubt this is how those Washington warmongers think. These people think everyone is as blood thirsty as they are.

    Can’t have your cake and eat it; either is Israel in charge or the MIC

    They are one and the same, owned by the same (((tribe))).

    China has repeatedly threatened is to nuke the US in a war over Taiwan.

    Never read such a threat in any credible media. Where did you read this? Breitbart? Zerohedge? Link please.

    Your Ziocon cover’s been blown.

    • Replies: @Sean
    , @Herald
  241. @Stochastic Determinist

    There’s one major problem with this line of argument. Under the same uniform distribution, an outbreak in any other roughly month-long period would have the same probability, which implies that there is no special reason an outbreak at more or less the worst time of the year would be any less probable than at any other time of the year.

    Otherwise, you have to argue that the probability of an outbreak at that particular time fits some other probability distribution, which seems a bit impressionistic to me. I personally don’t see it. But I’m prepared to be shown otherwise.

    If you want to say that, given the circumstances, the outbreak seems suspicious, I would agree.

  242. Iris says:
    @JosephB

    Okay…they hung out for a few months hoping no one would notice, then dumped the virus? Isn’t 300 people overkill from a standpoint of keeping the event a secret afterward

    The “official” version that you happily believe may be that the incubation time is only a few days, but this testimony from a real patient who actually caught the disease in Wuhan, spent several weeks in hospital there with other patients and got cured of the Covid-19 infection says that the incubation time is about one month.

    https://ida2at.org/news/2020/03/06/6001/هام-هام-مريض-عربي-بعد-شفائه-يتحدث-عن-تجربته-بعد-إصابته-بالكرونا-و

    This patient is a Palestinian studying in Wuhan, who got contaminated by fellow students, and has University comrades of different nationalities (Russian, Pakistani, ..) who also caught the disease and got quarantined, then hospitalised in the same time with the same symptoms and went through the same experience.

    Unlike what the media tell us, he says that the symptoms of the Covid-19 infection are not like that of the flu: during the month-long incubation, neither him nor the other acquainted patients had symptoms of coughing and sneezing. Aside the temperature and extreme fatigue, the most characteristic symptom of the illness is acute pain to the lungs, as if stabbed with blades.

    This article of the Daily Telegraph admits that the incubation can last up to 24 days. With such a long delay, it is very realistic and possible that the initial contaminations happened early November, with symptoms materialising late November and the pandemic outbreak being acknowledged only late December.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/coronavirus-symptoms-covid-19-help-advice/

  243. eah says:
    @Anonymous

    FACT: THERE IS A LARGE CHINESE WORKER COLONY IN ITALY

    HOW MANY ARE WORKING IN ELDER CARE INDUSTRY?

    I’ll take your word re the numbers — but how many of the Chinese in Italy, including those/any working in the ‘elder care industry’ if you prefer, 1) have been to China recently, and/or 2) had direct or indirect contact with anyone who has?

    FACT: Unless you can provide this info, why should I care about how many Chinese there are in Italy?

    Or do you imagine just being ethnically Chinese is relevant?

  244. Ron Unz says:
    @Stochastic Determinist

    It seems to me that given that the Lunar New Year begins around January 25 this year, less than a month after the first cases are reported, if I have the facts right, and assuming a uniform distribution for this probability, the probability of a random outbreak is roughly 1/12 at most, which is less than 92 percent probability of deliberate release…. so I think 97 percent is likely too high a number.

    Sure, I was just providing a loose estimate, and yours is a perfectly reasonable alternative.

    The point is that the ideal target-date for a bioweapon attack would be so that a sufficient number of Chinese became infected in Wuhan prior to the beginning of the massive Lunar New Year travels, which would spread the virus to the entire country. But too early an attack would lead to its detection by the government in time to prevent the national outbreak.

    Since the outbreak was only initially recognized in early/mid Jan and an unprecedented national quarantine of many hundreds of millions of Chinese was required to prevent an unstoppable national pandemic, it seems to me that the timing-date was just about perfect, say within an ideal 10-day window. But if you’d argue that it was merely within the best 30-day window, I won’t argue with you. So whether the non-random-likelihood was 10/365=97% or 30/365=92%, either way it seems rather unlikely, even before you consider the coincidental presence of 300 American military officers in that city.

  245. @Ron Unz

    Why would Chump unleash a bio-engineered virus in the Wuhan province, with the entirely predictable results endangering his presidency? It’s pretty clear the man has no control over his own government. Why couldn’t this be the work of clandestine ‘Murican “deep-state” operatives working in conjunction with Israel?

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  246. Trinity says:
    @buzzwar

    Divide and conquer and “war by deception” strikes again. Arab Muslims and White Christian Gentiles fighting each other, so why not next have the (((commie))) Chinese go to war with the (((capitalist))) goyim. It is like the little scrawny kid instigating two of his bullies to fight each other. Both bullies are weakened and one might even be destroyed. Now the little kid only has to deal with one big bully.

    This shit smells so bad I can smell it from Sarah Palin’s house. haha.

    IT IS REFRESHING TO KNOW THAT THERE ARE SO MANY PEOPLE WHO ARE ON TO THIS SHIT. RESTORES MY FAITH TO KNOW THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE SEE THROUGH THIS.

  247. @Anonymous

    ” it does seem brilliant to capitalize on the xenophobia and Sinophobia of the right to make this false flag hoax potent.”

    What sinophobia? You mean the fake Jewish (neocon) right? Sure, they dislike China intensely, which is why their hands are all over the Hong Kong protests.

    If you mean the actual, isolationist, American First right, there’s no evidence they dislike Chinese people. The main critique is that the USA should not be importing legions of people from foreign cultures, not that the Chinese are bad.

    Cite a single example. Vox Day, Molyneaux, Paul Gottfried, etc etc. None of those people are anti-Chinese. In fact, many of them admire Chinese people for high IQ and for maintaining perhaps the world’s greatest civilization for uncounted hundreds of years.

    As for ‘xenophobia’, it’s a sign of your IQ not to notice the irony. The Chinese are xenophobic themselves, staunchly refusing to import Africans or Afghans to enrich their culture. (Wisely, in my opinion). Good luck trying to hold down permanent residency in China while committing some sort of crime. They’ll deport your ass in a heartbeat, giving not a single though to your ‘human rights’.

    White xenophobes bad for not liking Chinese. Chinese xenophobes good!

    Duh.

  248. @ploni almoni

    From whom? Have you understood what I have said?

  249. @Stochastic Determinist

    Of course, it could be argued that flu season comes especially in the winter. If this is true for China, then flu cases cluster in the winter, and a normal distribution would be a reasonable assumption. Then, that time of outbreak would be more probable than any other time, and the fact that it is the worst time of year possible would be purely coincidental.

    So there you have it. I’m willing to consider other arguments.

  250. CanSpeccy says: • Website

    Here’s a tough minded view of how the Western nations should be reacting to Covid19:

    in the face of new plagues, Globalism is suicide. The only thing that works is quarantine. In the Middle Ages, some Italian towns saved themselves from the plague by a policy of immurement: any house where plague appeared was bricked up, with the people inside.

    The equivalent for us now is to shut down all international travel.
    Source: William Lind

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  251. Ron Unz says:
    @Oldtradesman

    Why would Chump unleash a bio-engineered virus in the Wuhan province, with the entirely predictable results endangering his presidency? It’s pretty clear the man has no control over his own government. Why couldn’t this be the work of clandestine ‘Murican “deep-state” operatives

    Obviously, this is all speculation, but I agree with you 100%.

    Personally, I’m *extremely* skeptical that Trump himself would have been aware of a bioweapon attack, let alone that he ordered it. He clearly has very little control over his own government, as demonstrated by the fact that several of his closest political allies are being railroaded into prison for having supported his presidential campaign.

    And based on this clip from a couple of days ago, Trump still seems to think the Coronavirus is just a MSM hoax. I *really* don’t think he was behind it…

    If it were a bioweapon attack on China (and Iran), I assume the source would have been somewhere within the American national security establishment, I don’t have a clue where.

  252. Nuncle says:

    Both Canada and Australia have very large Chinese populations, so if it the virus had been engineered to harm Chinese people in particular I would expect larger outbreaks in these two countries than there have been so far. That said, it’s early days yet.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @Anonymous
  253. @Stochastic Determinist

    To clarify that last point, if the coronavirus is seasonal (like the flu) and its season is in the winter, then we could expect the outbreak and the bulk of the cases to cluster in the winter.

    But it seems to me that there are too many unknowns.

  254. Iris says:
    @JosephB

    Or was their fieldcraft so amazing that they planted it then in a way that it wouldn’t blossom until the appropriate time just before the holiday?

    Interestingly, this is exactly what randomly happened in Italy without any “fieldcraft” being even needed.

    Professor Massimo Galli, specialist in infectious diseases at the University of Milan, explains why Italy was so badly affected by the Covid-19 pandemic:

    Asked to explain the prevalence of the coronavirus in Italy, Professor Galli believes the country was unfortunate to experience infection early, before there was a high degree of awareness among the public or medical professionals.

    “We have an epidemic because of one person who returned with an infection in an asymptomatic phase and it spread underground in the ‘red zone’,” he said, referring to the Lombardy region in the north of Italy. “The fire spread in a large part of our region.”

    “What happened in Italy could happen everywhere in Europe,” he said. “Maybe we are particularly unlucky.”

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0305/1120469-why-has-coronavirus-infect-so-many-people-in-italy/

  255. MEexpert says:
    @A123

    However, I come to the exact opposite conclusion based on the same facts.
    Thus, the presence of Americans and other international travellers in Wuhan makes it *less likely* that the current U.S. administration is involved.

    Now we can rest easy. The Biological Weapons expert, “Dr. A123” came to these conclusions. Who can question his ecxpertise. He gets his information directly from the Research Labs in Israel.

  256. MEexpert says:
    @Ron Unz

    It was released at the absolute worst time for China, just before Lunar New Year, when it could have easily spread throughout the country.
    By contrast, if someone wanted to deliberately spread a bioweapon within the pro-Iran Shia Muslim community, as a leading pilgrimage Qom would be an ideal release target location.

    Coincidentally, Persian New Year starts around March 21. This combined with the pilgrimage to Qom makes it very likely that culprits are the USA and Israel.

  257. lysias says:
    @Gleimhart Mantooso

    Chinese culture venerates the old. I happen at the moment to be reading the Confucian classic the Xiao Jing, the Classic of Filial Piety. The title speaks for itself.

    The Chinese youth departed from that ideal in the Cultural Revolution, but I think that aberration is now thorpughly discredited.

    A bioweapon directed against the old is unimaginable in that culture.

  258. A123 says:
    @lysias

    You think the President has to approve everything that DOD does?

    Are you suggest that an enemy of the U.S. started this, such as Globalist Obama/Hillary holdover in the DOD?

    Interesting idea. Victims of Trump Derangement Syndrome operate outside of the bounds of sanity.

    I have to concede the possibility. Without rationality for restraint anything is possible from an Hillary Cultist.

    PEACE 😇

  259. @lysias

    I knew someone would do the “Chinese like old people” routine, and here you are. Once you go commie, you’re screwed. Was them killing 50+ million of their own people unimaginable in that culture, sinophile?

    But I’m happy that you’re having a good reading time. I myself don’t read Chinese shit, since Western Civilization is vastly superior.

    • Replies: @lysias
  260. lysias says:
    @Gleimhart Mantooso

    I have degrees in classical studies from three universities — a B.A. magna cum laude from Princeton, a B.A. with First Class Honours from Oxford, and a Ph.D. from Harvard, and I still find Chinese classics worth reading.

    China is far past the atrocities of the Mao era.

    • Replies: @Gleimhart Mantooso
  261. SteveK9 says:
    @animalogic

    I haven’t seen anything that suggests that East Asians are more susceptible, except one ‘study’ of 8 people including a single Asian male … that is ridiculous. Such a ‘study’ means nothing.

    This NY Post article has promoted a lot of the suspicions about the lab:

    https://nypost.com/2020/02/22/dont-buy-chinas-story-the-coronavirus-may-have-leaked-from-a-lab/

    But if there is a Level 4 Virology Lab, specifically studying coronavirus that is a short distance from the epicenter of an outbreak of a new type of coronavirus, it is not a stretch to believe that something ‘got out’. China had suffered through the SARS episode, which is also a coronavirus, so it is natural that they would want to study these viruses, to formulate anti-virals or methods of vaccine generation. There is nothing evil or odd about this. If you think that Scientists dealing with deadly pathogens are not concerned about the risks, you would be wrong.

    Read this article:

    https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985

    Here is a copy of a post from Moon of Alabama. I don’t know who DFC is, but this is pretty interesting reading:

    [MORE]

    So everybody knows that the Covid-19 started in Wuhan, but there is a very very important virology institute in Wuhan with the BSL-4 cathegory (the highest) and at the head of this research facility is the doctor Zhengli-Li Shi, this woman, as top researcher, wrote with his group of Wuhan in 2015 the following article:

    https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985

    I invite b and the commentariat to read CAREFULLY the full length article, where they say:

    “Therefore, to examine the emergence potential (that is, the potential to infect humans) of circulating bat CoVs, we built a chimeric virus encoding a novel, zoonotic CoV spike protein—from the RsSHC014-CoV sequence that was isolated from Chinese horseshoe bats1—in the context of the SARS-CoV mouse-adapted backbone. The hybrid virus allowed us to evaluate the ability of the novel spike protein to cause disease independently of other necessary adaptive mutations in its natural backbone. Using this approach, we characterized CoV infection mediated by the SHC014 spike protein in primary human airway cells and in vivo, and tested the efficacy of available immune therapeutics against SHC014-CoV”

    So they create a “chimeric” SARS-CoV virus that can cause disease (in humans)

    They continue:

    “we synthesized the SHC014 spike in the context of the replication-competent, mouse-adapted SARS-CoV backbone (we hereafter refer to the chimeric CoV as SHC014-MA15) to maximize the opportunity for pathogenesis and vaccine studies in mice (Supplementary Fig. 2a). Despite predictions from both structure-based modeling and pseudotyping experiments, SHC014-MA15 was viable and replicated to high titers in Vero cells”

    So they “maximize the opportunity for pathogenesis”. Very interesting…

    And then they continue saying:

    “To test the ability of the SHC014 spike to mediate infection of the human airway, we examined the sensitivity of the human epithelial airway cell line Calu-3 2B4 (ref. 9) to infection and found robust SHC014-MA15 replication, comparable to that of SARS-CoV Urbani (Fig. 1c). To extend these findings, primary human airway epithelial (HAE) cultures were infected and showed robust replication of both viruses”

    So in the last paragraph they have found that the new chimeric virus they have created (they called it SHC014-MA15) “show robust replication” in human cells. A great success I guess…

    But they continue with the research and say:

    “We next analyzed infection in more susceptible, aged (12-month-old) animals. SARS-MA15–infected animals rapidly lost weight and succumbed to infection”

    So they test the new chimeric virus (they call it SARS-MA15 and also SCH014-MA15) in mice and they saw a high pathogenicity in the lungs of the animals, more acute in older ones

    Then they continue with the trials of the SHC014-MA15 chimeric virus:

    “Similarly, antibodies 230.15 and 227.14, which were derived from memory B cells of SARS-CoV–infected patients13, also failed to block SHC014-MA15 replication (Fig. 2b,c). For all three antibodies, differences between the SARS and SHC014 spike amino acid sequences corresponded to direct or adjacent residue changes found in SARS-CoV escape mutants (fm6 N479R; 230.15 L443V; 227.14 K390Q/E), which probably explains the absence of the antibodies’ neutralizing activity against SHC014. Finally, monoclonal antibody 109.8 was able to achieve 50% neutralization of SHC014-MA15, but only at high concentrations (10 μg/ml) (Fig. 2d). Together, the results demonstrate that broadly neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV may only have marginal efficacy against emergent SARS-like CoV strains such as SHC014.”

    So it seems that the new chimeric virus they created is quite resilient to the antibodies normally used to treat SARS

    Still more about the risks of chimeric virus:

    “the creation of chimeric viruses such as SHC014-MA15 was not expected to increase pathogenicity. Although SHC014-MA15 is attenuated relative to its parental mouse-adapted SARS-CoV, similar studies examining the pathogenicity of CoVs with the wild-type Urbani spike within the MA15 backbone showed no weight loss in mice and reduced viral replication23. Thus, relative to the Urbani spike–MA15 CoV, SHC014-MA15 shows a gain in pathogenesis (Fig. 1). On the basis of these findings, scientific review panels may deem similar studies building chimeric viruses based on circulating strains too risky to pursue, as increased pathogenicity in mammalian models cannot be excluded”

    So they recognize they have created a very dangerous chimeric virus with a high pathogenesis, easily transmitted in human cells and hard to fight by antibodies, and they said at the end “building chimeric viruses based on circulating strains too risky to pursue, as increased pathegenicity in mammalian models cannot be excluded”
    Do you feel a cold sweat now?

    At the end of the article they finally said:

    “Coupled with restrictions on mouse-adapted strains and the development of monoclonal antibodies using escape mutants, research into CoV emergence and therapeutic efficacy may be severely limited moving forward. Together, these data and restrictions represent a crossroads of GOF research concerns; the potential to prepare for and mitigate future outbreaks must be weighed against the risk of creating more dangerous pathogens. In developing policies moving forward, it is important to consider the value of the data generated by these studies and whether these types of chimeric virus studies warrant further investigation versus the inherent risks involved ”

    So I have some tough questions to ask:

    a) What are the probabilities that an strange new SARS virus, never seen before, very easily transmitted and very pathogenic, started exactly some hundred meters from the same research lab where theses people were creating chimeric viruses one day and the following?

    b) What are the probabilities that a new “wild” virus be so similar to this chimeric virus created in 2015 for this study? Could it be a self-fulfilling prophecy?

    c) What are the probabilities that the Wuhan Virology Instute have developed a very accurate test for the brand “new” virus in just some days after the outbreak? Do they have some knowledge in advance of what kind of virus it was?

    Somehing stinks in Denmark (Wuhan)

    Posted by: DFC | Feb 27 2020 21:06 utc | 61

    • Replies: @utu
  262. 234.steinbergfeldwitzcohen says:

    “There are two strains: S and L. The S is older but the L is more virulent.”

    Your statement is not correct. You have misunderstood the fundamentals.

    Yes, there are the S and L strains, but there are five different varieties of the virus (so far). The one in Iran seems the most deadly (at least to Iranians). The one in most of Mainland China is totally different from that in Korea or Taiwan, and the Chinese variety has both S and L (as do probably all others).

    • Replies: @utu
  263. The US and Israel governments are trying so hard to distract, deceive, cover their own actions and incompetency must accuse other governments like China and Iran as their fierce competitor or state sponsored terrorist or enemies. And yet many countries around the world accusing the US and Israel as the main state sponsored of terrorists on this planet.
    Mr Giraldi in order to analyze one’s behavior all we need to look at is it’s past behaviors. Your suggestions are plausible as has been suggested by Dr Francis Boyle of Chicago U that COVID19 has escaped or released unintentional from the multinational BSL-4 bio-Lab in Wuhan!

    • Agree: Desert Fox, Turk 152
  264. @lysias

    Speaking of the old Master…

    Signs and symbols rule the world, not words nor laws — Confucius

    Who invented Covid-19 and who will use it to control the globe? 

    By their Star of David you shall recognize them. Shalom motherfuckers!

  265. @BL

    “In hindsight it looks like Iran” – More like, we already blamed Libya, but Qaddafi is gone, so now we can recycle it by pinning it on Iran. Hell, Pence was blaming Iran for 9/11 not too long ago. They already blamed the Taliban and Saddam for that. Basically, the US government psychopaths have decided they can say ANYTHING and people will buy their bullshit or do nothing about it.

    US intelligence agencies should be mercilessly purged. And since there is no “leaving” those groups, they can’t be purged by simply releasing them to civilian life.

  266. Initially, our suspicions should naturally be directed at the U.S./Israel globalist machine. But I’m becoming increasingly suspicious that Costco itself is behind this panic event. The motive is there. They are selling 4 trillion units of water and toilet paper daily. I guess the next investigative step is to document the Jewish ownership of the company. I’ll leave that to resourceful Unz.com readers.

  267. Sean says:
    @Anon

    https://www.nytimes.com/1996/01/24/world/as-china-threatens-taiwan-it-makes-sure-us-listens.html

    Bill Gertz, “China Threatens U.S. with Missile Strike,” Washington Times, February 29, 2000.

    [MORE]

    The threat by China to nuke the US was made implicitly in 1997, and barely veiled in 2000. In 2005 came the following:-

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/jul/16/china.jonathanwatts

    A senior Chinese general has warned that his country could destroy hundreds of American cities with nuclear weapons if the two nations clashed over Taiwan.
    Major general Zhu Chenghu, a dean at the National Defence University, said he was expressing a private opinion, but his comments, the most inflammatory by a senior government official in 10 years, will fuel growing concerns in Washington about the rise of China.

    Speaking at a lecture arranged by the foreign ministry and attended by several foreign correspondents on Thursday, Mr Zhu said China was prepared to initiate non-conventional warfare over Taiwan. “War logic dictates that a weaker power needs to use maximum efforts to defeat a stronger rival,” he was reported as saying by the New York Times.

    All this is over Taiwan declaring independence which the Chinese say would be an act of war. A Biowarfare attack on China would certainly be an act of war. And I repeat, it would be extremely difficult to gauge how many people would be killed by a engineered superflu once it was out in the cities, it could be much worse than the designers intended because there is no precise way of reliability testing it.

    Unlike Russia and America, China refuses to participate in nuclear disarmament talks. They have got stronger with every year and they are already too big to fight, possessing sufficient conventional power and nukes to them secure, The idea that some kind of deep state in america is going to and take down the Chinese growth that made Warren Buffet 600% on an investment in electric buses that US cities bought with government carbon neutral funds ECT ECT Wall St run US foreign policy; Israel runs US foreign policy; no wait it’s actually the a group inside Langley and the Pentagon , a cabal but out of the chain of command of the army and CIA against the interests of the Israel, Wall St, Director of the CIA director, the Joint Chiefs, and of course the President and his LAWFUL orders which every single one has sworn to obey. But actually {{{they}}} run everything against everyone’s interests including their own.

    Is this a scheming group covertly within and between the state institutions that the armchair detective writers have discovered, or schemata of narrative embellishment and mistrust indicative of the type of communication between brain cells that seem to go along with 14 genes implicated in mental health conditions, that is inside of the brains of too many commenters on this site? https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg24532660-500-a-radical-idea-suggests-mental-health-conditions-have-a-single-cause/

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @Anon
  268. Agent76 says:
    @Truth3

    Let this expose the insiders and the fraud. Fire has never ever brought down a steel structure in all of history.

    Sep 11, 2013 9/11 In A Nutshell

    [MORE]

    James Corbett presents this 5 minute parody of the official conspiracy theory of 9/11

    May 25, 2014 FDNY 9/11 Survivor Witness and Whistleblower Speaks on WTC 7

    Listen very carefully starting at the ’20’ second mark! As a firefighter on 9/11, he was at Ground Zero and was there when Building 7 came down.

    Sep 5, 2016 9/11 Suspects: Rudy Giuliani

    Mayor Giuliani oversaw the illegal destruction of the 9/11 crime scene and is criminally liable for the deaths of hundreds of emergency workers for not passing on prior warnings about the collapses of the Twin Towers.

    September 07, 2016 September 11, 2001: The 15th Anniversary of the Crime and Cover-up of the Century “What Really Happened”?

    New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani to be trucked away and shipped to China – an order that constitutes disturbing a crime scene – which is a federal crime.

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/september-11-2001-the-15th-anniversary-of-the-crime-and-cover-up-of-the-century/5544414

    • Replies: @Desert Fox
  269. @CanSpeccy

    True. Borders should be sealed and never opened again. There is absolutely no need for international travel any more. Goods could be moved internationally by drone ships and planes. People can watch tourism videos if they are so interested in the wonders of the world, and they can communicate via the internet, as well as learning foreign recipes, languages, or whatever else foreign from the internet, video conferencing. Hey, they can even have safe virtual webcam sex with foreigners via the Internet. Technology enables sealing countries off completely so why is it seen as a driver for globalism? So seal them off right now and whoever is cut off, they live out their lives wherever they are. Tough for few, good for the many.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  270. Jiminy says:

    Conner Reed says that he had the sniffles on the 25/11/19, and everything went downhill seven days later. Does that mean that he contracted the virus mid November? Allowing for a two week incubation period.The Chinese hospital treated him as a pneumonia patient. As for an unknown agent spreading an aerosolised virus in a crowd using a doctored spray can of hairspray, underarm deodorant , maybe even a personalised insect repellant – I think it would be possible. But why would China have in its possession an Asian targeting virus? Perhaps they had acquired it serupticisly from another’s lab and were trying to develop a vaccine against it before it was accidentally released. Why would China willingly release such a virus upon its own people? To destroy economies at the cost of its own, to see who blinks first- it just doesn’t make sense. In closing I think Reed could give a few clues as to his daily travels in that late December, early November period that might shine a light on the path of the virus.

  271. Biff says:

    Welcome to the new War.
    It’s elemental……

  272. @Agent76

    To see how Israel and traitors in the ZUS gov did the WTC go to drjudywood.com and wheredidthetowersgo.com.

    • Replies: @ploni almoni
  273. Mefobills says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Its likely that deep state actors operate unilaterally. How they benefit is the next question.

  274. Persons responsible for the creation of new diseases should be put to death.

  275. Mefobills says:
    @Just another serf

    Top Jews can rightly be accused of operating usury mechanisms. Conspiring to sell toilet paper at Costco prices is hardly their MO.

  276. utu says:
    @SteveK9

    Keep in mind that the 2015 paper you extensively quoting
    https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985
    comes form University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill not from China. The chief author was Ralph S. Baric who as his CV indicates

    https://media-speakerfile-pre.s3.amazonaws.com/documents/cc4e5e5d442320c20c7f76a0c3cadce51445358867.pdf

    was invited speaker at DARPA conferences and was funded by biodefense grants. The research for the 2015 paper was conducted during when the ban on the Gain of Function (GOF) research was in existence:

    https://www.the-scientist.com/the-nutshell/moratorium-on-gain-of-function-research-36564
    In the wake of a handful of biosafety lapses at federal research facilities, the US government is temporarily halting funding for new studies aiming to give novel functions to influenza, SARS, and MERS viruses

    so the 2015 publication of Ralph Baric paper brought some criticism:

    Lab-Made Coronavirus Triggers Debate (2015)
    https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/lab-made-coronavirus-triggers-debate-34502

    In January this year Ralph Baric stated that US residents should be aware about the 2019nCoV but be more concerned about the flu virus. Get your flu shot if you haven’t already!⁩ ⁦

    https://twitter.com/David_RMartinez/status/1222502006356684800

    It is true that one 15 co-authors was Zhengli-Li Shi who is associated with Key Laboratory of Special Pathogens and Biosafety, Wuhan Institute of Virology, Chinese Academy of Sciences, Wuhan, China. So it is likely that Wuhan Institute of Virology has similar know-how in engineering of viruses for the gain of function as developed by Ralph Baric lab in North Carolina.

    • Replies: @SteveK9
  277. @Sean

    Should we add to the ideas that nuclear weapons may protect the peace because of Mutually Assured Destruction the possible use of bioweapons. In a world of large cities the enemy would threaten to release many different pathogens, not just one. Countries would have to be prepared to stock up for months of self quarantining.

  278. utu says:
    @Ayatollah Smith

    AMID CORONAVIRUS OUTBREAK, TRUMP-ALIGNED PRESSURE GROUP PUSHES TO STOP MEDICINE SALES TO IRAN
    https://theintercept.com/2020/03/05/iran-coronavirus-medicine-sanctions/

    “Joshua Silberberg, a spokesperson for UANI, declined to respond to questions about the group’s effort to name and shame companies doing medical trade with Iran.”

    “Senior UANI adviser John Bolton worked for UANI both before and after his stint in the Trump administration as national security adviser. ”

    UANI = United Against Nuclear Iran

  279. Anonymous[239] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ayatollah Smith

    About 2 years ago when he was still in the White House as national security advisor, John Bolton abruptly disbanded the government officials responsible for dealing with pandemics, global health security and bioterrorism. Apparently the health security bureaucracy is fragmented across various agencies, which means the White House has significant control over national health security.

    This would explain the strange behavior and response of the CDC and other ostensibly independent government agencies. They’re fragmented and dependent on White House direction. This also seems like it would be a ripe environment for funny business by elements of the national security state. If health security is fragmented across various agencies and subject to White House control and can be easily kept out of the loop of things, there’s a greater probability that black ops could be implemented without worry of whistleblowers and the like.

    “Top White House official in charge of pandemic response exits abruptly”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2018/05/10/top-white-house-official-in-charge-of-pandemic-response-exits-abruptly/

    [MORE]

    The top White House official responsible for leading the U.S. response in the event of a deadly pandemic has left the administration, and the global health security team he oversaw has been disbanded under a reorganization by national security adviser John Bolton.

    The abrupt departure of Rear Adm. Timothy Ziemer from the National Security Council means no senior administration official is now focused solely on global health security. Ziemer’s departure, along with the breakup of his team, comes at a time when many experts say the country is already underprepared for the increasing risks of a pandemic or bioterrorism attack.

    Ziemer’s last day was Tuesday, the same day a new Ebola outbreak was declared in Congo. He is not being replaced.

    Pandemic preparedness and global health security are issues that require government-wide responses, experts say, as well as the leadership of a high-ranking official within the White House who is assigned only this role.

    “Health security is very fragmented, with many different agencies,” said J. Stephen Morrison, senior vice president at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. “It means coordination and direction from the White House is terribly important. ”

    The personnel changes, which Morrison and others characterize as a downgrading of global health security, are part of Bolton’s previously announced plans to streamline the NSC. Two members of Ziemer’s team have been merged into a unit in charge of weapons of mass destruction, and another official’s position is now part of a unit responsible for international organizations. White House homeland security adviser Tom Bossert, who had called for a comprehensive biodefense strategy against pandemics and biological attacks, is out completely. He left the day after Bolton took over last month.

  280. Ed Nguyen says:
    @Realist

    Unless I’m mistaken, the aeresol property is essential to weaponizatuon of biological agents. The spread dynamics of this pathogen shows it to be aeresolized.

    • Replies: @Realist
  281. Quintus says:
    @A123

    Anyone whose jargon includes normie, self-righteous phrases like “convoluted conspiracy theory” is gaslighting and cannot be taken seriously.

  282. Ed Nguyen says:
    @lysias

    I’d be curios to know how many of those personnel had the virus one month later.

  283. sally says:
    @Ron Unz

    The oil and gas owned, petrodollar controlled, nation state system is not in the control of those who are the governed. <= Until everyone understands how the mob uses government to engage regime change, virus infection, preemptive war, dissent suppression jailing, torture, bombing, lying, fake news, false flag ops as nothing short of the Al Capone style, Chicago based, leg breaking, nothing is going to get anything but worse.
    Consider WWI and WWII, the federal reserve act, the 12th amendment, government and its courts are secrets kept from the governed, the Viet Nam war, the Korean war, the Syrian war, the Yemen war, the Afghanistan war, Epstein type weapons, the Palestinian land siege, geographically distributed<=regularly staged<= mass shooting events, the invasions of [Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Venezuela, etc.] under cover of false pretense propaganda, the sanctioning of everyone who disagrees, 9/11, claims that both Saddam Hussein and Assad used Gas against their own people, WE came we saw, Qaddafi died, Julian Assange and long streams of already dealt with whistle blowers, and last but not least denial by government of its bill of rights obligations as a pre condition to legitimate claim that the USA has the right to govern.
    Paul Revere needs to modify his warning from The British are Coming, to The Mobsters are among us..

    • Agree: Maowasayali, Nonny Mouse
  284. Poco says:

    No one made it. It’s not even particularly lethal. Shit. You’re a bunch women, pissing your pants over a media sensation. If the media is pushing a narrative ignore it. Damn.

    • Disagree: GazaPlanet
  285. Alfred says:
    @Z-man

    All our ancestors ate rats and everything else. We all have enzymes for breaking down the consumed exoskeletons of insects.

    What is so repugnant about specially-raised and bred rats and dogs?

    “King Rat 1965 Movie”

    • Agree: Godfree Roberts
    • Disagree: Z-man
    • Replies: @Daemon
  286. GeeBee says:
    @Ghan-buri-Ghan

    ‘what do these WN goons think will happen when their Jewish masters destroy China, thus taking complete control of every major power on the planet? Can they not think two steps ahead? Do they think their Jewish masters will make life better for them once they have achieved total domination?’

    Precisely. I have, during the past ten years or so, found myself cast adrift from pretty much all of my life-long beliefs, largely thanks to the information that the internet has made readily available. Because of this new phenomenon, we live in a sort of turbo-charged version of the second half of the fifteenth-century, when the invention of the printing press had a similar, if incomparably smaller effect. It is salutary to recall that by the end of that century, in France, it was an offence punishable by death to own an unlicensed printing press.

    The internet has the potential to be massively dangerous to ‘They’ who call all the shots. Yet as you rightly lament, Orwell’s ‘proles’ fail to see what is so easily available before their eyes, and are instead so easily seduced into an impotent xenophobia by the very people who are their implacable foes. These same foes have of course perfected an insidious ‘controlled opposition’ which is shockingly successful at steering the masses safely into their own arms – not least by fomenting the bogus ‘clash of civilisations’ that uses the false logic that Islam is their enemy, therefore Israel must be their friend. Perhaps Orwell was right, and the natural predominance – he stipulates 85% – of lumpen ‘proles’ throughout all history is just a fact of life; one that is always ready to vote ‘Them’ into permanent power under ‘Their’ scam of ‘democracy’.

    At any rate, part of my own epiphany involved a sudden, blinding understanding that ‘America must fall’ before there can be any chance of salvation. It’s not Americans I have any reason to despise, but the fact that theirs is (for now) the most powerful nation, and it is of course yet another wholly-owned subsidiary of ‘They’ who seek to control the world (or as Gilad Atzmon mischievously put it: ‘to turn a promised land into a promised planet). The natural corollary of this seemingly seditious thought is that a puissant China, perhaps in cahoots with Russia and others, is the only possible mechanism for bringing this about. ‘They’ saw to it, brutally and totally, that the last such route to salvation was cruelly extirpated. The ‘proles’ in their dismal trust of what ‘They’ have taught them about WWII are little more than Pavlovian helots, or more accurately Orwell’s sheep, dutifully bleating ‘Democracy good, Fascism bad’ even as they are herded into the slaughter-house.

    • Agree: Ghan-buri-Ghan, utu
    • Thanks: Iris
    • Replies: @Kolo
  287. Bert says:
    @Ron Unz

    So what did we learn?
    Hopefully, we learned that it’s very difficult to generate non-random probability estimates unless you know precisely how the non-random mechanism works. Let’s say that in our poker example, we knew that there were some special rules for the draw but we didn’t know what those rules were. It would become impossible to determine the odds of drawing any particular hand. Worse yet, suppose we didn’t even know how many cards were in the deck. Probability estimating is an extremely complicated business, where the smallest unjustified assumption can produce numbers which are completely wrong and where missing information can make any kind of estimate impossible.

    http://www.creationtheory.org/Probability/Page04.xhtml

    What the UR reaction to the epidemic teaches is that conspiracy theorists throw around “probability” in a sense so loose as to be meaningless.

    • Replies: @Been_there_done_that
  288. Bob says:

    A scenario I did not see here:

    China loses trade war with USA. CCP releases virus in Wuhan, knowing it will spread throughout the world. Releasing the virus in Wuhan provides them with plausible deniability.

    Due to the predictable global outbreak, CCP knows it will saves face for losing trade war, gain an excuse to seize more power, excuse for bad economy. The virus also buries Hong Kong news and rallies the public. Authoritarian CCP is well-equipped to deal with the virus and has a head-start on USA and rest of world. It also solves their economic problems with the elderly.

    From CCP point of view, other benefits are the virus harms USA, harms Trump, stops Trump rallies. Since the virus will be discovered to be a bio-weapon made in USA (or probably/plausibly made in USA), CCP can gains propaganda points and possibly other benefits as well, including even stronger plausible deniability for having released the virus themselves.

    If the virus is shown to target East Asians (Mongoloids), the above scenario is much less likely.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  289. JEinCA says:

    If this was indeed a virus manufactured by humans to kill humans then those that manufactured it must be under some kind of Satanic influence. To unleash an epidemic for geopolitical gain is beyond wrong. It’s demonic. It’s no different than the atrocities carried out by Hitler, Stalin, Mao or Pol Pot. It is evil.

    • Replies: @GeeBee
  290. Alfred says:
    @Dumbo

    That’s 7%, so either there’s lots more of cases that no one knows about, or the death rate is higher than in other countries.

    What makes you think that the huge number of people who die from “flu” are not victims of corona virus?

    If they are not tested, we will never know the truth.

    As it is, a huge number of those who die from “flu” actually die from some other underlying condition but “flu” is put on their death certificate as that is what pharmaceutical companies and doctors prefer.

  291. Daemon says:
    @Alfred

    Food taboos are used to delineate ‘us’ from ‘them’.
    To expect consistency and rationality from tribalists is a fools errand.

    • Agree: another fred
  292. Alfred says:
    @Agent76

    They Actually ADMITTED There’s No Money in Curing People

    In the case of HIV/AIDS, there is no money in prevention.

    I found that out a long while back when my US patent was granted and the FDA approved it as a “medical device” – for the prevention of HIV.

    Apparatus useful in preventing or reducing risks of transmitting an infectious disease, primarily AIDS, or genetic disorder, comprises identification means such as a personal card bearing identity particulars of a first participant and security feature(s) and a storage medium such as a certificate or data based, bearing legible or retrievable test result data concerning the particular defect. A second participant consults the result before permitting intimate contact or accepting a donation of blood, body tissue or similar material

    US5108131 – Method of controlling transmission of defects

    At that time, I was not a cynic. 🙂

    Now, I would not put anything, absolutely anything, past those with the moneybags.

    • Replies: @BDS Always
  293. eah says:
    @eah

    Related to the discovered mutations/variants of this virus:

  294. @Alfred

    The chart was equally obtuse

    I believe you mean “obscure”.

    • Replies: @Alfred
  295. DaveE says:

    Thanks for a great piece (as usual) Mr. Giraldi.

    I’m not going to post links as I just don’t have time, but I would urge readers to look at some old clips of a certain guy named Gallo, talking about “African green monkeys” spreading the HIV virus he so diligently “discovered”. Or the works of Dr. Alan Cantwell who dug through all the medical literature of the 1970’s and realized that HIV was an engineered virus, developed under the guise of looking for a virus that causes cancer.

    My point is, there is a LONG history of germ-warfare going on, as this piece (and comments) make so clear. The “coronavirus” didn’t just materialize from outer space, if it exists at all, and neither did the various germ-warfare programs, by a race of people who consider themselves the Chosen, commanded by Yahwey to exterminate anyone who gets in their way.

    It makes me smile when I read these comments and realize that we pesky Goyim have awakened, once again, to yet another scam (or worse) that is basically an updated version of poisoning Palestine’s water-wells, taken to a global level.

    It ain’t gonna fly, Moische.

    • Agree: Maowasayali
    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  296. @NPleeze

    Apartheid is a more apt metaphor

    The most correct and accurate metaphor is “concentration camp”.

  297. @Nuncle

    It has been summer in Australia, most of the Chinese in Australia are relatively young and students who got caught back in China at the wrong time have generally been quarantined.

  298. @BL

    You say: “A textbook example is the Pan Am 103 downing over Lockerbie. It sure looks in hindsight that Iran was responsible.” Surely you meant to say that, “In Hindsight it looks like Israel was responsible.” Unless, of course, it was Fiji.

    • Replies: @Alfred
    , @BL
  299. @Desert Fox

    To see how they did it you don’t have to go anywhere. Open your eyes wherever you are.

  300. @Just another serf

    Quite a plan. Then Costco won’t see anymore toilet paper for the next year.

  301. beforeitsnews.com : “More COVID-19 Predictive Programming :Stephen King’s ‘The Stand’ and
    Coronavirus Crows ” :
    “So far with the Coronavirus poutbreak we have come to realize that this virus was predicted in various forms of media over the last 50 years …It just goes to show you that when the new world order
    is going to manufacture a crisis they go all out with preparedness.”
    “The conditioning of humans-Predictive Programming in Human” bibliotecapleyades.net :
    “Predictive programming is a subtle form of psycholgical conditioning provided by the media to acquaint the public with planned societal change to be implemented by the TPTB. If and when these changes are put through , the public will already be familiarized with them and will accept them as ‘natural progressions’ ,as Alan Watts calls it, thus lessening any public resistance and commotion [for example
    mandatory vaccinations , more surveillance, shelter in place/quarantine , TSA searches] Predictive programming therefore may be considered as a veiled form of mass manipulation or mind control , courtesy of our puppet masters.”

  302. @Bob

    Well reasoned except that it exaggerates the political/prestige problem would be caused by the trade war.

  303. Over the last couple of decades, a very large number of scientists, notably including many microbiologists, appear to have met untimely ends. See links below. I have not seen anyone in the comment stream here pose the question of whether these suspicious deaths could be related in some way to what is going on now with this COVID-19 situation. Thoughts? Mr. Unz? Anyone?

    https://mysteriousuniverse.org/2015/08/mysterious-deaths-and-microbiology/
    http://tapnewswire.com/2016/02/list-of-over-100-dead-microbiologists/
    http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/deadbiologists.html

  304. GeeBee says:
    @JEinCA

    Just a question: has it ever occurred to you that everything you think you know about Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot has been told to you – relentlessly and sedulously, and by means of a never ending tsunami of propaganda – by the very same people who brought about today’s world, in which ‘Satanic influence’ appears to be the norm?

    Personally, I no longer believe one word of that ‘official’ narrative concerning WWII, Adolf Hitler, Mao tse Tung, or any other of the demons and bogey-men they teach us to fear and despise. More, I have arrived at the conclusion that the truly Satanic trick of ‘projection’ is all that undergirds these ‘official’ narratives, and that the exact opposite to it is almost certainly the truth. The real demons and satanists of the past hundred years have included Churchill and Roosevelt, followed by a whole tribe of their hidden puppeteers…

    • Agree: Desert Fox, DaveE
    • Replies: @Trinity
  305. Are you in fear of the spread of the Coronavirus , have you succumbed to the mass media’s hysteria and “fear porn” about COVID-19 , then the government’s plan is working .”Fear:The foundation of every government’s power “ independent.org :
    “By keeping the population in an artificially heightened state of apprehension , the government-cum-media [whether it is in China, the US , the UK , Italy,etc.] prepares the ground for planting specific measures of taxation , regulation , surveillance, reporting and other invasions of the people’s wealth , privacy[surveillance] and freedoms[mandatory vaccinations ].Left alone for a while ,relieved of this ceaseless bombardment of warnings, people would soon come to understand that any of the announced threats have no substance and that they can manage their own affairs quite well without the security-regulated regimentation and tax-extortion scheme the government seeks to justify .Large parts of the government and the private sector participate in the production and distribution of fear
    {the massmedia , The CDC “Big pharma” and the MIC come to mind ] “

    • Agree: Desert Fox
  306. Al Liguori says: • Website
    @Ron Unz

    Israel is Developing ‘Ethnic Bomb’ for Growing Biological Weapons Arsenal

    by Mark Weber

    http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v17/v17n6p24_Weber.html

  307. Alfred says:
    @Dave Bowman

    I believe you mean “obscure”.

    I should have written “I’ve really been very obtuse and stupid” 🙂

    (example from Collins English Dictionary)

  308. @Wizard of Oz

    True, which is why some sort of coordinated dissociation of the two economies is the actual plan (assuming this isn’t all just media-led hysteria over a bad strain of the flu, which is probably more likely).

  309. @DaveE

    I would urge readers to look at some old clips of a certain guy named Gallo, talking about “African green monkeys” spreading the HIV virus he so diligently “discovered”.

    Gallo plagiariased, or should we say attempted to plagiarise, the French scientist Luc Montagnier who ended up getting the Nobel Prize for the discovery of HIV:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luc_Montagnier

    • Agree: Alfred
  310. Alfred says:
    @ploni almoni

    You say: “A textbook example is the Pan Am 103 downing over Lockerbie. It sure looks in hindsight that Iran was responsible.” Surely you meant to say that, “In Hindsight it looks like Israel was responsible.” Unless, of course, it was Fiji.

    The fact that since Lockerbie, the USA and Israel never again tried to blow up an Iranian airliner is sufficient proof for me that Lockerbie was an Iranian “return of the favour”.

    Libya had absolutely nothing to do with it. The Scottish legal system was entirely corrupt – just like the English one is with the ongoing Assange case.

  311. And here we go, Comment 288, CIA muppet Bert (Ernie’s up next) debunking quantitative probability estimates with Words, Words, Words! Bert uses the super-convincing magic words conspiracy theorist to prove everything.

    For Bert’s fit of utterly nonprobative hand-waving he has to shitcan Bayes. That’s because our priors are:

    P(CIA cooked up all kinds of germ warfare) = 1

    https://21stcenturywire.com/2018/01/21/wmd-america-inside-pentagons-global-bioweapons-industry/

    P equals One.

    CIA has been doing this shit for 70 years. They gave you Lyme and that weird farty disease that goes with it. They gave you anthrax. If you’re a jig they gave your Grampa syphilis. If you’re a gook they gave your Gramma anthrax, plague, cholera, you name it. And the scumbags gave me COVID-19 last spring. Didn’t work, hah, blow me!

    CIA does germ warfare all the time. We’re gonna get em.

  312. denk says:
    @A123

    No means, No motive, No conspiracy

    [[[USA]]] has NO motive to hurt China ??

    This must be the most inane remark of the century !

    Are you for real ?

  313. @Alfred

    Goldman Sachs asks in biotech research report: ‘Is curing patients a sustainable business model?’

    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/11/goldman-asks-is-curing-patients-a-sustainable-business-model.html

    • Thanks: Alfred
  314. @Bert

    …conspiracy theorists throw around “probability” in a sense so loose as to be meaningless.

    Worse than meaningless, actually deceptive, including self-deceptive.

    The mistakes in these pseudo-analytical approaches that utilize random probabilities, even if not uniformly distributed, to conclude that an observed phenomenon was too improbable to have been a mere coincidence, is that they ignore the consideration of conditional probabilities premised on what is already known or presumed to be a near certainty. For instance, consider the following:

    • Given that we can presume that an antidote to the dangerous coronavirus the they were synthesizing from other dangerous components at the Wuhan lab had not yet been developed there, nor anywhere else in case this line of research was not just being pursued in Wuhan, what is the probability that the deadly virus would have been deployed intentionally anyway – prematurely from a tactical perspective – to cause great harm, with unknown consequences, by any conceivable actor? (See my case for an accidental release in my comment #75 earlier in this thread.)

    • Given that we know scientists were already conducting this type of bio-weapons research at the Wuhan lab, based on their published papers, what is the probability that at least one of these researchers inadvertently infected themselves with their new concoction and then unwittingly infected others?

    • Assuming that the lab in Wuhan would have also employed workers, such as secretaries or business coordinators, without PhD degrees and subsequent specializations in coronavirus enhancements (gain of function), and assuming that certain types of animals were being used in the experimental testing process to observe the effects of viruses, what is the probability that one of these workers might have felt sorry for those (infected) animals and covertly sold them at the nearby open market, a block away (<280 meters air distance), where these lab animals were subsequently processed to some soup or other dish at a restaurant?

    • What would be the joint probability, of at least one of the last two prior outcomes, described above, having occurred, under the conditional probability that the outcome described in the first point above had not occurred (that is, not an intentional but a nearly certain accidental release) back in early November last year, nearly three months prior to the Chines lunar new year?

    Whoever might have intentionally released the virus, as was postulated by others, with the specific intent to have it spread as widely across the country as possible by unwitting viral carriers during the heavy travel period in late January, was certainly off with their timing because by then counter-measures were already put in place, even though these spontaneous quarantines actually came a few weeks too late, due to the initial ineptitude of officials who were covering up. A nefarious release, to cause maximum economic impact, would have happened a few weeks later than was the case. So, if you want to believe the speculation involving nefarious intent and thus ignore the first point cited above, what would be the probability that such a crucial operation would have gotten screwed up by bad timing?

    • Replies: @JosephB
    , @Lot
  315. BL says:
    @ploni almoni

    Fascinating. Until very recently, Iran’s asymmetric warfare capabilities were universally touted. Including, not the least by Iran and its most fervent supporters.

    That’s been memory-holed in the blink of an eye following Iran and the Democrats foiled gambit to replay the Iranian Hostage Crisis that sunk Carter’s reelection.

    This exemplifies the shifting utility driven nature of the conspiracy theorizing for all concerned.

    Having averted the danger by taking out Soleimani and others, the USG and Trump, have no interest in exposing the plot and its Democrat collaborators for that would constitute self-inflicted pressure via public opinion for more severe punishment of Iran — the exact opposite of Trump’s objective of averting war with Iran, whether before or after the election.

    I’m not sure we’ll ever know how extensively the ruling personalities and factions in the Iranian regime were onboard with the exceedingly reckless scheme. But clearly Iran now has an unqualified interest in keeping its nose clean lest it conjure the release of those details.

    Iran is in dire circumstances:

    https://asiatimes.com/2020/01/how-fragile-is-irans-regime-2/

    The last thing it needs is a renewed basis for any rapprochement with the US to become politically impossible like it was for decades following ’79-80.

  316. Anon[544] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean

    Let’s read Zhu’s whole speech, shall we? He was talking about the scenario in which China and the US get into a war over Taiwan. He said China should prepare for the mass destruction because the US could attack the Chinese cities and have the capability to destroy all the cities east of Xi’an. In that case, he said Americans should prepare for Chinese retaliation, which includes using nuclear weapons. Surely he is a controversial figure as he breaks away from China’s official position that it will never use nuclear weapons first in a major war. China still maintains the “no first use” position which was reaffirmed in July 2009 strategic white paper, which surprised some observers.

    The US doesn’t have the “no first use” policy and many were expecting a more aggressive posture from China which is not unlike Zhu’s position. You can interpret Zhu’s position however you want it.

    • Replies: @Sean
  317. Bob says:

    “…exaggerates the political/prestige problem would be caused by the trade war.”

    That’s only one factor. There are many advantages for CCP, especially excuse for bad economy and increased control over population. I would put the likelihood of CCP doing it as high as other actors, the two main ones being USA Deep State & affiliates or a Soros-type that hates both Trump and CCP.

    • Replies: @denk
  318. Sparkon says:
    @Skeptikal

    Could that be because most bats (that is, most bat species) nourish themselves by sucking the blood of warm-blooded animals?

    No they don’t. That’s entirely wrong. The vast majority of bats feed on insects, nectar, and fruit. A few take fish. Out of over 1,200 species of bats, just three species of the Vampire bats feed on blood, and those are found exclusively in the the Americas.

  319. Anon[544] • Disclaimer says:

    Washington (AFP) – Two people have tested positive for the new coronavirus after taking part in a pro-Israel lobby group’s conference in Washington which Vice President Mike Pence, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and dozens of lawmakers also attended.

    The influential American Israel Public Affairs Committee said in an email to attendees, speakers and congressional offices that the infected pair had traveled from New York to go to the March 1-3 event.

    “We have confirmed that at least two Policy Conference attendees from New York have tested positive for the Coronavirus,” AIPAC said in the message, posted to its Twitter account.

    The virus situation could get ugly quickly in the US.

  320. Ok, it how’s seems USrael is behind this bio-weapon.

    https://en.radiofarda.com/a/former-hostage-taker-of-us-diplomats-dies-of-coronavirus-in-iran/30470975.html

    Former Hostage Taker Of US Diplomats Dies Of Coronavirus In Iran

    Former Iranian ambassador to Syria and a hostage-taker of U.S. diplomats, Hossein Sheikholeslam, died Thursday from a Covid19 infection, local news outlets report…

    Meanwhile, local media report that an elected representative of Tehran to Majles (Islamic parliament), Fatemeh Rahbar, is in a serious condition after contracting coronavirus…

    Eight percent of the Islamic Republic’s parliament has been infected with the disease, as well as the country’s deputy health minister and one of the deputy presidents, Masoumeh Ebtekar. Still the government insists only just over 100 people have died of the infection

    For anyone who’s exposed to Western press it’s apparent that in the last year China has been in the crosshairs. From Uighurs, to Hong Kong, to now Coronavirus.

    [MORE]


    The Washington Post

    In China, every day is Kristallnacht

    By Fred Hiatt
    Editorial page editor
    November 3, 2019

    In China, every day is Kristallnacht.

    Eighty-one years ago this week, in what is also known as the “Night of Broken Glass,” hundreds of synagogues and Jewish cemeteries in Nazi Germany were damaged or destroyed, along with thousands of Jewish-owned businesses. It was in a sense the starting gun for the genocide that culminated in the extermination camps of Auschwitz, Sobibor and Treblinka.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/11/03/china-every-day-is-kristallnacht/?arc404=true

    China, Iran to Deepen Military Ties
    China’s defense minister vowed to strengthen military cooperation with Iran

    By Franz-Stefan Gady
    December 14, 2017

    Chinese Defense Minister Chang Wanquan met for talks with the deputy chief of staff of the Armed Forces of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Brigadier General Ghadir Nezamipour, in Beijing on December 12. Chang and Nezamipour vowed to strengthen military cooperation between China and Iran and to maintain friendly military exchanges…

    https://thediplomat.com/2017/12/china-iran-to-deepen-military-ties/

    Haaretz

    China Reaches Its Arm Deep Into the Middle East, Giving Israel Cause for Concern

    Beijing doesn’t attend summits to end wars. It builds ports, lays telecommunications networks and sells arms as it surreptitiously amasses its political power

    Zvi Bar’el
    Jun 15, 2019 6:23 PM

    https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/.premium-china-s-invisible-hand-in-the-middle-east-is-a-political-masterstroke-1.7369281

    …Ever since China adopted its Belt and Road Initiative in 2013, aiming to secure an economic hold on areas all the way to the Mediterranean, it has divided the Middle East (and East Asia) into five categories. The most important includes countries defined as full strategic allies; this category includes Saudi Arabia, Iran, Egypt, Algeria and the UAE.

    “Hey China, shame if you and your little buddy Iran were to catch a cold at this time and had to be quarantined. Hahahaha…”

    • Replies: @annamaria
  321. Trinity says:
    @GeeBee

    You might want to add Eisenhower, LBJ, Pappy Bush, Dubya Bush, Bill & Hillary Clinton, John McCain, and probably a few others to that list with Churchill and FDR. The puppeteers are even more evil than their puppets, however.

    • Agree: annamaria
    • Replies: @GeeBee
  322. denk says:
    @Bob

    I would put the likelihood of CCP doing it as high as other actors, the two main ones being USA Deep State & affiliates or a Soros-type that hates both Trump and CCP.

    Rubbish !

    Who’s the motive ?
    Who benefits ?
    Who’s the means ?
    Who’s the track record of hurting China ?

    All points to [[[USA]]]

    p[its an enemy action from USA] = 99.999999%

    mY conjecture trumps your conspiracy theory.

    • LOL: JosephB
    • Replies: @denk
  323. Jiminy says:
    @Skeptikal

    Experts believe that bats carry large amounts of viruses because the act of flight for the mammal is very demanding. Their body breaks down at a cellular level and as a result large amounts of DNA are coursing through their body. Because of this the bat has a lower level of immunity so large numbers of viruses can be carried and tolerated , as well as it’s own broken down DNA. Most bats eat insects, and some eat fruit and nectar, but not many deliberately drink blood. I can only think of one.

  324. Bob says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Replied to you on Comment 318. Must have done it wrong.

  325. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Commentator Mike

    People can watch tourism videos if they are so interested in the wonders of the world

    Agreed. Though in fact it’s simply the prospect of days of excessive eating, drinking and whatever other form of self-indulgence is to be enjoyed on board ship that attracts the mainly obese cruise ship crowd.

    Meantime, here in Victoria, capital of the Province of British Columbia, we are preparing to welcome the following plague, sorry, cruise ships:

    Apr 03 Fri GRAND PRINCESS Vancouver 7:00 14:00 San Francisc 2,606 Princess Cruise Lines 951 ‘
    Apr 10 Fri EURODAM San Francisc 18:00 23:00 Vancouver 2,104 Holland America Line 935 ‘
    Apr 12 Sun EURODAM Vancouver 8:00 17:00 Astoria 2,104 Holland America Line 935 ‘
    Apr 13 Mon STAR PRINCESS Astoria 8:00 23:00 Vancouver 2,590 Princess Cruise Lines 950 ‘
    Apr 16 Thu EURODAM Honolulu 8:00 17:00 Seattle 2,104 Holland America Line 935 ‘
    Apr 28 Tue DISNEY WONDER San Francisc 9:30 18:30 Vancouver 2,400 Disney Cruise Line 964 ‘
    South B Apr 28 Tue VOLENDAM Astoria 14:00 23:00 Vancouver 1,440 Holland America Line 777 ‘

    Apparently, we’re so desperate to sell a few T-shirts and souvenir mugs that the civic authorities are willing to put the health of the entire community at risk.

    But assuming our dim-witted rulers fail to act, perhaps we will be able to organize a shot-gun-armed posse to stop the mass of potential disease vectors on board these ships from disembarking.

  326. SteveK9 says:
    @utu

    Thanks. Usually the heads of the groups involved have their names last … Shi and Baric. The reason I suspect a release from the lab at Wuhan was that the epidemic started virtually next door (not in NC). I’m not a China basher (the opposite), but to me this looks like a serious mistake was made.

    I’m not sure who did what regarding this research (maybe I’ll stop being lazy and try to read this closely), but there is this in the Methods section.

    ‘Pseudotyping experiments were similar to those using an HIV-based pseudovirus, prepared as previously described10, and examined on HeLa cells (Wuhan Institute of Virology) that expressed ACE2 orthologs. HeLa cells were grown in minimal essential medium (MEM) (Gibco, CA) supplemented with 10% FCS (Gibco, CA) as previously described24. ‘

    Reference 10 is Chinese. For some reason references after 23 were missing from the PDF.

    Anyway, I would expect that some part of the work was done in Wuhan, not just that they have the capability.

  327. JosephB says:
    @Been_there_done_that

    You nailed it. Unfortunately, Mr. Unz appears unwilling to accept criticism on this front and is sticking to his “97%” mantra.

    I also agree delaying the release by a few weeks to a month would have been far better if the goal is to devastate China.

  328. Sean says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Quoting experts who say Coronavirus is clearly natural, establishment media are complaining about the US Right and Fox giving credence to the idea that it is no coincidence the virus appeared in the same city as China’s only level 4 biosafety lab as if pointing out these undisputed facts was synonymous with saying China had created the virus as a bioweapon. But even if it is true that Coronavirus is natural, this does not mean it was not accidently released from the level 4 Chinese lab, because that lab’s official regular business was studying natural viruses rather than creating bioweapons. It was the reporting by China of Coronavirus having an astronomically high infection to mortality ratio that caused speculation it was too lethal for purely natural origin.

    It seems the Chinese can count on the US media to attack their own country’s political leadership, and so a stratagem for the China could have been to deliberately use a novel Coronavirus to create a mildly lethal outbreak near their Wuhan lab (apparently at the worst possible time of year for them, thereby allaying suspicion they did it deliberately) and then lie about it being incredibly lethal. In this scenario the biological effect of Coronavirus is not why the Chinese are using it. The main thing is to get Trump and Republicans to talk about the epidemic in order for the liberal media to seize on and fact check the bio weapon angle, and point out that Trump is ill informed and complacent about the Coronavirus. Such a plan would require the China to massively over report the lethality of the Coronavirus.

    The World Health Organisation in the last week put the Covid-19 global death rate at about 3.4 per cent (compared to seasonal flu’s 0.1 per cent) . That estimate is almost certainly too high by at least one order of magnitude, and US President Donald Trump was quite correct to cast doubt on its accuracy. But now Trump is to be blamed for every American who dies. Bearing in mind that the Coronavirus is vastly less dangerous than the wily Chinese originally reported, them using the hate that much of the establishment has for Trump to get rid of him is as viable a scenario as the other theories being propounded.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  329. Realist says:
    @Ed Nguyen

    Unless I’m mistaken, the aeresol property is essential to weaponizatuon of biological agents.

    True, but that doesn’t prove it was engineered.

  330. bjondo says:

    The ignored but praised pandemic:
    Increase in the number of billionaires, especially the parasitic type.

    Here, there, everywhere.
    Using wealth to harm.
    Using wealth to control.
    Using wealth to manipulate.

    Time to pack ’em all into Guantanamo.
    Still plenty of room.

    5 dancing shlomos

  331. GeeBee says:
    @Trinity

    Amen to all of that sir!

  332. Sam J. says:
    @Ron Unz

    Ron Unz,”…(3) A deliberate bioweapon attack, that hits China and Iran exactly at the time when America is most hostile to those two countries (and indeed almost simultaneously assassinated a top Iranian leader)…”

    The dog that barked.[Sherlock Homes reference for those wondering]

    added (4).

    “…For any “deliberate release” theory, the action would have to be taken by a group that is an enemy of both China and the U.S…”

    Carroll Price says,”..The Chosen seem to be the only group that hates everyone else, including China and their greatest benefactor, the USA…”

    Music to Corona by

  333. staradvertiser.com : “Despite coronavirus , IOC unwavering on Olympics starting in July .”
    “Bach , Olympic Committee President , asked how he could be so confident that the Olympics will go ahead as scheduled July 24 to August 9 , he answered ‘ Because we talk to the experts .” The same experts who started the Coronavirus hysteria and who can end it at any time of their choosing ? Trump said April , so I am going with April, if not sooner .

  334. denk says:
    @denk

    josephb

    lol

    YOu have to do better than that ,

    I believe its a [[[USA]]] FF, ..with four good reasons.

    YOu supports Bob’s crazy conspiracy theory that China release that crap on itself…..hoping that it’d hurt [[[USA]]] eventually !

    Nothing in The CCP’s track record in the past seventy years indicates they’r such crazy nutters, meaning the conspiracy nutters must be you and BOb. !

    • Replies: @JosephB
  335. zerohedge.com “Surprise! China is using COVID-19 to strengthen its mass surveillance of citizens”
    Isn’t this further proof that China was in on this psyop with the elites of other nations, such as the US , Italy, the UK , Iran etc,etc, in order to exert more control over their people ?

    • Agree: Beefcake the Mighty
    • Replies: @denk
  336. Jimmy1969 says:

    Giraldi just ruined his reputation over this idiocy.

  337. Lot says:
    @Been_there_done_that

    “ inadvertently infected themselves”

    +++Albert Hofmann+++ invented LSD and then accidentally took enough to get high. And he was a top chemist and working with a very poisonous group of chemicals from ergot, a mold toxin that can kill at low doses. In other words, this happened despite him being very careful.

    His lab notes:

    “ Last Friday, April 16,1943, I was forced to interrupt my work in the laboratory in the middle of the afternoon and proceed home, being affected by a remarkable restlessness, combined with a slight dizziness. At home I lay down and sank into a not unpleasant intoxicated-like condition, characterized by an extremely stimulated imagination. In a dreamlike state, with eyes closed (I found the daylight to be unpleasantly glaring), I perceived an uninterrupted stream of fantastic pictures, extraordinary shapes with intense, kaleidoscopic play of colors. After some two hours this condition faded away.”

    He later wrote an interesting book about it, the first chapter is here:

    https://www.hallucinogens.org/hofmann/child1.htm

    • Replies: @Been_there_done_that
  338. @lysias

    It looks to me like you have a B.S. mega cum loudly in Lame Fallacy Studies from Walmart Community College.

    I have degrees in my area of specialty as well, and at no time have I ever listed them to advance an argument, since that would be so stupid. I frankly think you are full of utter shite.

    • Replies: @lysias
  339. @Ron Unz

    Once the little devil is out in the world, it would be a very simple thing to use maliciously. Why wouldn’t the Israelis spread some snot around Iran? After all, some of their politicians are gleefully proclaiming that the virus outbreak there is now accomplishing what sanctions couldn’t.

  340. @anon

    Like most other countries, China does not prohibit the consumption of wild animals.

    It’s not so much about what kinds of wild or exotic animals culinary connoisseurs in China may want to eat, but what animal parts they prefer to consume.

    Here is a report from less than a year ago, with photos, about a visit to a high-end Beijing restaurant that specializing in serving penis cuisine from different animals:

    The Beijing penis restaurant

    https://www.timetravelturtle.com/the-cock-and-the-chef/

    Quote:

    [MORE]

    There was great health to be had from eating the penis and it even had aphrodisiac qualities. The whiter meat was better for the women and the darker meat should be eaten by the men.

    After a meal, do dykes feel like wearing a strap-on harness with their preferred silicone appendage, or do old men walk around with horizontal peckers? Perhaps. I suppose occasionally there are daily specialties too, perhaps elephant cock or Jewish infant foreskin soup.

    With regard to the animals used for testing viral effects at the Wuhan bio-weapon lab, if they were later sold at the nearby market, then the assumption may have been that these animals had developed natural immunity to whatever viruses they were being tested for. So consuming these animals may have transferred their presumed anti-viral immunity, it might have been thought.

  341. Sean says:
    @Anon

    In 2000 it seemed the Taiwanese were toying with the idea of declaring their independence from China, and China publicly said it would conventionally invade Taiwan if it did formally make the break with China. America used the diplomatic code for nuclear weapons when it said in the aforementioned scenario China would face “incalculable consequences”. So you are right that America threatened to initiate the use of nuclear weapons. However the USA was talking about what in American terms would be foreign theatre first use, on the other side of the Pacific ocean.

    You are wrong that China merely threatened retaliation in kind, which would be to use battlefield nukes against the US’s theatre military forces in the event of them using battlefield/tactical nuclear weapons against Chinese forces invading Taiwan. No, the response from China was to threaten that if US forces battlefield nuked a Chinese conventional invasion of Taiwan, then China would hit the continental United States of America (presumably a major city) which would be an escalation from the tactical to strategic level with the first use at the strategic level being by China.

    • Replies: @phatmaus
  342. denk says:
    @9/11 Inside job

    since when has ZH become your holy grail ?

    The SARS1 attack shaved off more than 1% of China’s GDP, gawd knows how much this will hit its pocket book now.

    All these to ‘further control its citizens’ ?

    This is even crazier than BOb’s conspiracy theory.

    • Replies: @9/11 Inside job
  343. CanSpeccy says: • Website

    Debate about the source of the novel corona virus and who, if anyone, is responsible for launching it upon the world is futile.

    To launch a plague undetected is the easiest thing in the world.

    The responsible party, whether acting with deliberation or by inadvertence, will almost certainly never be identified.

    But one thing’s for certain. There’s no need for 300 American soldiers in Wuhan to do the job.

    One person with a pair of contaminated gloves will do it: visit the supermarket, touch this, touch that, smear the shopping cart handle, then drop the gloves where someone is likely to pick them up and contaminate themselves and others, and the magic of exponential growth takes over.

    Next thing you know the newspaper front page announces in 256 point type:

    CONTAINMENT IS
    FUTILE

    Followed by, in slightly smaller type:

    In Canada, local transmission
    “is going to be widespread,
    it’s going to be severe”. But for
    many, it appears the penny
    hasn’t really dropped.

    And that’s a key fact you have to understand if you want a plausible theory of the origin of this plague.

    Another key fact, is that the virus kills the old, not the young.

    So cui bono?

    Both China and America: each with rapidly aging populations and a problem financing the maintenance of the elderly.

    What to do? Kill them off with this handy virus, obviously.

    So no China didn’t do this to America and America did not do this to China. But it could very well be a joint operation using a virus modified by scientists of both countries, working, as we know, in collaboration on means to enhance the pathogenicity of bat flue viruses.

    • Replies: @Just another serf
    , @denk
  344. TRM says:
    @Ron Unz

    I would not discount it on those grounds. The flu season would mask a lot of it and Caucasians are much less susceptible to it than Asians and the end of the article is getting me very suspicious. That is a lot of coincidences (see below). It is also a possibility that the article is part correct in that it was released accidentally or intentionally during the games.

    I disagree with it being propaganda from PRC. The two other sources, Japan and Taiwan, are allies of the USA so they are much less likely to just repeat PRC propaganda. Not impossible but unlikely.

    If this is the start or escalation of bio-warfare between superpowers it will get extremely ugly with the retaliation that will follow. Here’s hoping it ends quickly.

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/china-coronavirus-shocking-update/5705196

    In the past two years (during the trade war) China has suffered several pandemics:

    1) February 15, 2018: H7N4 bird flu. Sickened at least 1,600 people in China and killed more than 600. Many chickens killed. China needs to purchase US poultry products.

    2) June, 2018: H7N9 bird flu. Many chickens killed. China needs to purchase US poultry products.

    3) August, 2018: outbreak of African swine flu. Same strain as Russia, from Georgia. Millions of pigs killed. China needs to purchase US pork products.

    4) May 24, 2019: massive infestation of armyworms in 14 province-level regions in China, which destroy most food crops. Quickly spread to more than 8,500 hectares of China’s grain production. They produce astonishing numbers of eggs. China needs to purchase US agricultural products – corn, soybeans.

    5) December, 2019: Coronavirus appearance puts China’s economy on hold.

    6) January, 2020: China is hit by a “highly pathogenic” strain of bird flu in Hunan province. Many chickens died, many others killed. China needs to purchase US poultry products.

  345. @Lot

    …working with a very poisonous group of chemicals from ergot, a mold toxin that can kill at low doses.

    Yes, highly toxic substances are easy to ingest even when taking precautionary measures.

    This hallucinogenic effect of ergot had previously been known for centuries. Some women would dip their broomsticks onto the rye molds, then rub their broomsticks onto their vulva and thereby absorb it to attain an elevated state of ecstasy. They were called witches because of their hysterical behavior while high. That’s the explanation why witches at Halloween ride their broomsticks in the sky. (See below for image of late 18th century plate etching, on display at the Goya Museum in Zaragoza.)

    [MORE]

    Two years ago the city of Basel commemorated the discovery of LSD on what was called “Bicycle Day”, probably because the first trip was experienced while riding a bicycle:

    Basel in the spotlight: the city that learned to love LSD

    ‘Bicycle Day’ on 19 April is the 75th anniversary of the day Albert Hofmann accidentally discovered LSD, changing his perceptions – and the city’s future

    https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/apr/19/basel-in-the-spotlight-the-city-that-learned-to-love-lsd-albert-hofmann

    Basel, birthplace of the mathematician Leonhard Euler, was also home to the novelist Hermann Hesse, author of Steppenwolf, the plot of which was likely set in that city.

    Image – Francisco Goya – Two witches riding on broomstick in air

    • Replies: @Iris
  346. All governments want to control their citizens and use different means to do so , see my comments 302 and 306 . I understand that sites ,such as Zero Hedge, have a mix of articles containing misinformation , disinformation and sometimes the truth , I believe that in this case it has been well documented that the Chinese have used the Coronavirus outbreak to both increase mass surveillance and censorship .A number of commenters in the alternate media have speculated that there are a number of agendas behind this psyop , one of which is censorship see, for example :
    dcdirtylaundry.com : “7 NWO agendas accompanying the Coronavirus outbreak “

    • Replies: @naill
    , @denk
  347. @denk

    Please see my comment #346 .

  348. Not only has CIA been doing this for 70 years, they have been trying to bullshit you about for 70 years. Lying about CIA germ warfare was the initial impetus for CIA mind control and mental torture programs. They had to discredit germ warfare confessions backed by overwhelming evidence.

    https://shadowproof.com/2015/03/28/book-review-this-must-be-the-place-how-the-u-s-waged-germ-warfare-in-the-korean-war-and-denied-it-ever-since/

    https://cryptome.org/2015/01/isc-biowar-kr-cn.pdf

    So anyway, this CIA mad scientist is sitting in his office, and a soldier staggers in and takes his shoes off. His toenails are all gnarly and yellow and fucked up. The CIA mad scientist looks at it and says, “Hmm. You got tolio.

    Then a soldier wobbles in all over the place on rubbery boingy knees. The CIA mad scientist says, “Uh oh! Looks like kneesles.”

    Then a soldier comes in and drops his pants. The CIA mad scientist backs up and yells, “Smallcocks!”

  349. The most commonly reported mainstream media account of the creation of the Coronavirus suggests that it was derived from an animal borne microorganism found in a wild bat that was consumed by an ethnic Chinese resident of Wuhan. But there appears to be some evidence to dispute that in that adjacent provinces in China, where wild bats are more numerous, have not experienced major outbreaks of the disease.

    The CIA and MSM should stop watching movies on Netflix because this is how a pandemic was caused (by a bat) in the 2011 movie Contagion by the Freemason Steven Soderbergh.

    Africans eat way more bats than do the Chinese and yet Africa and blacks are apparently immune to Covid-19. How does the CIA or CDC or MSM explain this? They don’t!

    Next in line after the Africans would be the Southeast Asians like Indonesians and Vietnamese who also eat more bats than do the Chinese. But there is no outbreak of Covid-19 in either Indonesia and Vietnam or anywhere in Southeast Asia. Never has been; why not?

    Why only in China? Why do we hate their Communism so much? /s

    Even for the Chinese who believe any creature with four legs that has its back facing the sky can be eaten–note that bats do not fit this criterion–bats and “bat soup” would be very exotic indeed.

    Have you seen the obviously fake and black propaganda YouTube video that went viral (pun intended) of a Chinese lady eating a bat with chopsticks and drinking bat soup in a “fancy Chinese restaurant” in Canton at about the same time that the news of the novel coronavirus broke out? 

    How curious and careless? Canton is about  836 kilometers (520 miles) away from Wuhan. 😆

    I personally do not know of any Chinese person who has ever eaten bats or drank “bat soup”. But the CIA and their MSM wants us to believe this is how Covid-19 was created.

    Africans and Southeast Asians who regularly eat bats as a staple food have never contracted Covid-19, but the small minority of Chinese who eat bats as a rare delicacy in fancy restaurants are the ones who contracted Covid-19 and caused this pandemic. Really?

    This would only make sense as a Jewish joke, which it is.

    Of course, this whole thing with bats is a perverted insider joke. Bats represent the Jews!

    They have been telegraphing coronavirus and the return of their Antichrist for zoomers and boomers alike for at least 4 years with their Lucifer TV series.

    [MORE]

    Lucifer’s once feathered eagle wings have turned into featherless (((bat wings))).

    • Replies: @bjondo
  350. Ron Unz says:
    @Stochastic Determinist

    the probability of a random outbreak is roughly 1/12 at most, which is less than 92 percent probability of deliberate release.

    My morning WSJ carried a very long and seemingly comprehensive article recounting the Wuhan outbreak and focusing on the sequence of events and the reaction of the central PRC government, while including a helpful timeline.

    After reading this, I think I’d revert back to my original view that the viral attack was almost perfectly timed to inflict maximum damage on China by becoming sufficiently prevalent just in time to be spread nationally by the Lunar New Year holiday travels. For example, on Jan. 18th tens of thousands of Wuhan families still participated in a huge holiday banquet, massively spreading the virus within that 11M city. The first public statement by the Xi wasn’t until Jan. 20th and Wuhan was only quarantined on Jan. 23rd, after millions had already left the area on their travels. If they’d waited another week, the outbreak might easily have become uncontrollable.

    So I really do think that if some nefarious plotters decided to launch a bioweapon attack against China, they really did pick the ideal 10-day window, enormously reducing the plausibility of any accidental, random biowarfare leak.

  351. Iris says:
    @Been_there_done_that

    Nice diversion into fantasy territory.

    I stand to be corrected, but actual fact are that the Anglo-Zionist powers-that-be that you strive to defend are the only ones on record to have deliberately utilised biological weapons:

    – Against their own population, as in the Tuskegee syphilis experiment, carried out between 1932 and 1972 where dozens of impoverished Black males from Alabama were deliberately infected with syphilis, never told they had the disease and never treated, even after penicillin proved to provide an efficient cure.

    (It was later revealed in 2010 that US “health authorities” had carried out a similar operation in Guatemala in the 1940’s , where unbeknownst to the victims, people were deliberately infected with syphilis and other STD’s for the purpose of experimentation).

    – Against foreign civilian populations, such as the USA dropping plague-infected fleas on North Korea in 1952, on top of the carpet-bombing, bombing of irrigation dams, and threats of nuclear attack.

    https://medium.com/@jeff_kaye/report-u-s-dropped-plague-infected-fleas-on-north-korea-in-march-1952-66b853f05ada

    The use of biological warfare is considered a war crime, same as, say, the bombing and murder of 100’s of children in Gaza.

  352. naill says:
    @Just passing through

    as Chinese domestic security agencies surely kept close tabs on all foreign personnel, especially those from hostile countries like America.

    This assumption has no basis due to :

    1. They could not have known beforehand US military are malevolent enough to use a virus on them

    2. Unlike conventional weapons as there is no equipment to scan viruses, and whatever release mechanism employed would most probably have been chosen because it is easy enough to slip pass even the most vigilant of security agents

  353. naill says:
    @9/11 Inside job

    I understand that sites ,such as Zero Hedge, have a mix of articles containing misinformation , disinformation and sometimes the truth

    You are right. I have come to realise that Zerohedge is no longer a useful source of information. The amount of truth in the articles is dwindling and the amount of misinformation/disinformation increasing.

  354. Hempus says:

    History has seen many witch hunts. Heretics and gentiles have been eleminated on demand of the three dogmatic lines of monotheism.
    The main textbook to qonquer and enslave the nations is the old testament part one of the “holy bible”

    We are now in the time of the ten menaces and a new holy inquisition is on the way supported by the vaccination pope Bill Gates to enable the establisment of the promised land for the chosen people and to destroy all other Nations who are in resistance against this plot.

    After the success (hundred of billions for the big Pharma) of the AIDS fraud where especially Africa got punished and in dependence….the already weaponized WHO in alliance with big pharma and their media declared martial war on China and Iran with the rumor of a new discovered Virus for which the Pirbright Institute already had the patent….means the licence to create fear by climing its a new deadly virus….eventually escaped from a Wuhan bio lab or from a fish market

    Like the HIV virus this virus is not new and probably just a marker found on people with flu or pneumonia. Anyway not the virus is found but the antibodies. So this people had already an immunity reaction.

    We should remember that all baboons have been HIV positive, but did not create any fear if you screaming on them that “you have a deadly virus and you might die soon” 24 / 7 / 52
    Its the fear and panic which is creating breathlessness and finally pneumonia. This innocent virus is just a patsie for the new god in white dress…kind of WHO white helmets.

    • Thanks: Johnny Walker Read
  355. @Iris

    Iris,

    Were the doctors, scientists and others involved in running those vile experiments Jews? It would be good to know. We don’t want to blame the Jews even for crimes they’re not guilty of.

    • Replies: @Iris
  356. @CanSpeccy

    Both China and America: each with rapidly aging populations and a problem financing the maintenance of the elderly.

    I do find it entirely plausible that the U.S. government would deliberately fumble mitigation steps. For example, failing to stop travel from infected areas, allowing spread of the contagion they know is most likely to kill elderly Americans. In their view the old people are a useless burden. Many are white and hold obsolete views on personal freedom, along with holding potentially “racist” and hetero-normative viewpoints. They are both a nuisance and simply surplus to requirements.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  357. Most UR commenters wouldn’t know the truth if it slapped em’ upside their cok suckers.
    I pray all here will get a little education and get out of absolute panic mode over a cold virus. Here is a good place to start if you are really interested.
    China, 5G, And The Wuhan Coronavirus: The Emperor’s New Virus
    https://www.electricsense.com/5g-coronavirus/

  358. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Ron Unz

    After reading this, I think I’d revert back to my original view that the viral attack was almost perfectly timed to inflict maximum damage on China

    Economic damage due to the present epidemic is short term. Economic gain from the inevitable culling of the elderly is long term.

    Mortality from Covid19 among over 65’s is much higher, perhaps ten times higher, than the average, i.e., 30%, versus 3%.

    In 2017 there were 49,261,056 retired American, or thereabouts — a hugely expensive overhead. China is in the same position, demographically, with a rapid aging population.

    Thus if the Wuhan flu or some variant of it returns two or three times, the saving in Social Security spending in America will be massive. The same improvement in demographic profile can be expected in China and many other developed nations.

    So why assume the current pandemic is the result of a hostile act by one country on another? If it is not the result of leakage from the Wuhan lab, which as all the experts acknowledge is quite a high probability, then it could well be a joint US/China project, just as has been the research on, and engineering of, the virus.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
    , @Vidi
  359. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Just another serf

    Many are white and hold obsolete views on personal freedom, along with holding potentially “racist” and hetero-normative viewpoints.

    Absolutely. Get rid of the old white stuck-in-the-past believers in that “goddam piece of paper” as George Dubya called the US Constitution and open the floodgates to the diversity, aka cheap labor. America can then emulate the dynamic regions of the Third World: lots of billionaires, billions of have-nothing-at-alls.

  360. Sean says:
    @Ron Unz

    Given you are correct then China must know what happened. It would have been apparent from the original planning stage that timing it perfectly for a starburst from a 10 day window and choosing Wuhan, which has the only lab in China that is researching such viruses would amount to a ‘tell’ .

    Yet, the enemy so blatantly attacking China went ahead while ignoring what the Chinese response would be? However, given that is true, then by now China must have established to its satisfaction that is what happened.

    They are going to retaliate and it will be much more more than tit for tat. We know with nukes the Chinese policy is no first use but retaliation being done with escalation from the tactical to strategic level. If China has an available bioweapon flu with a death rate of 4 per cent (compared to seasonal flu’s 0.1 per cent) they are currently preparing to hit the West with it.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  361. @Sean

    Well, yes. I suppose getting rid of Trump could be worth a lot to them, but the US MSM and social media aren’t *that* predictable and without knowing who would replace him it would be the kind of foolish and expensive risk that it is hard to see the CCP taking.

  362. Iris says:
    @Commentator Mike

    Dear Sir;

    I do not know. I know however from what I saw in my lifetime, that while the US Deep State commits terrible crimes, one never sees demonstrations by American people rejoicing at the murder of Iraqi or Afghan civilians.

    Conversely, one sees often Isrealis rejoicing at defenceless Palestinians being murdered, such as those dancing and chanting at a wedding, of all places, and celebrating having burnt 18-months old Palestinian baby Ali Dawabsheh alive, alongside his parents.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-1239333/Jewish-wedding-celebration-guests-mock-dead-Palestinian-baby.html

    At the trial: “Where’s Ali? Ali is dead, Ali is on the grill !”

    https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201806201065599493-far-right-israeli-protesters-celebrate-palestinian-death/

    I don’t believe there is a “Jewish” race, but I can’t see any other ethnic group holding such a firm belief in their superiority and sense of entitlement, and expressing it with such unbelievable impudence. As a consequence, their body of values borders and merges with Satanism.

    My Jewish friends are people who have generally cut links with their ethnic community, don’t visit Israel, and just live like any other citizen of the country: they are balanced people who accept that others are their equals, not their inferiors.

    • Agree: Nonny Mouse
  363. @Ron Unz

    There will be a price to pay, if indeed the Chinese and Iranians come to the same cnclusions.

  364. lysias says:
    @Gleimhart Mantooso

    My point was that I am quite familiar with the Western culture you claim is so superior to Chinese culture.

  365. @Ron Unz

    Hey, Ron.

    Where would you invest your money right now? Do you think it’s safe to stay in the stock market and bonds?

    Do you think gold is a good investment?

  366. Thirdtwin says:
    @A123

    “There is no plausible reason to believe that the U.S. administration would interfere with this success.“

    Deep State/IC would interfere, no doubt.

  367. Flubber says:
    @John Chuckman

    ” pure malevolence towards China.”

    That’s just lunacy.

    China has bought reams of politicians, academics, etc

    They have stolen anything that wasn’t nailed down. Just look for example at the Jewish biologist who deserves the Rosenborg treatment; or the billion dollars plus thrown at Hunter Bidens grubby mitts.

    All Trump has done is tried to rebalance things.

    You’re projecting your own mental issues.

    • Replies: @denk
  368. Tamy says:

    The usual suspects in the United States are delighted to learn of the Iranian deaths.

    These people are absolutely disgusting.

    • Agree: Alfred
  369. denk says:
    @CanSpeccy

    Both China and America: each with rapidly aging populations and a problem financing the maintenance of the elderly.

    What to do? Kill them off with this handy virus, obviously.

    So you still dont get the message last time..
    All the ‘kill them useless eaters‘ nutcases come from the ‘democrazies’, so stop projecting your gawd damned ‘values’ on the others.
    asshole !

    https://www.unz.com/pescobar/no-weapon-left-behind-the-american-hybrid-war-on-china/#comment-3743459

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
    , @Anon
  370. denk says:
    @9/11 Inside job

    I believe that in this case it has been well documented that the Chinese have used the Coronavirus outbreak to both increase mass surveillance and censorship

    well documented

    Like what ?

    • Replies: @9/11 Inside job
  371. Ernst says:

    ”One of the worst days for coronavirus, the 10th of February 2020, was when 108 people in CHINA died of Coronavirus.

    On the same day:

    👉 26,283 people died of Cancer
    👉 24,641 people died of Heart Disease
    👉 4,300 people died of Diabetes

    Mosquitoes kill 2,740 people every day,
    Humans kill 1,300 fellow humans every day,
    Snakes kill 137 people every day.”

    From the following blog:

    http://aanirfan.blogspot.com/2020/01/coronavirus.html

  372. @Ron Unz

    The MSM WSJ left way to much out!! People need to get the whole story so they can do something to save them and their offspring from certain destruction. The Corona may be the perceived problem, but is far from the lone cause…
    Here is a huge collection of articles, scientific studies, videos, and quotes relating to the Coronavirus. All together, the evidence strongly supports the conclusion that Coronavirus is no more dangerous than a common cold – perhaps even less so. There may be thousand of deaths from something, but not the virus. The data points to 5G electromagnetic exposure. Anyone seeking to gather as many facts on this issue as possible will save at least a month of research time by simply reviewing this huge document. -GEG
    https://needtoknow.news/2020/03/large-collection-of-data-on-coronavirus-suggests-the-illness-is-harmless-and-that-deaths-are-caused-by-5g/

    • Thanks: SolontoCroesus
  373. bjondo says:
    @Maowasayali

    Like the Green Monkey, a BS story.

  374. @Johnny Walker Read

    Agree, read the book Under an Ionized Sky:From Chemtrails to Space Fence Lockdown by Elana Freeland and her website is elanafreeland.com, also watch the 2 hour video by Deborah Tavares the Illuminati Global Agenda, her website is stopthecrime.net, click on the headline to her youtube channel and then click on the video.

    The book Under an Ionized Sky can be had on amazon.com and should be read by every American.

    • Agree: Johnny Walker Read
  375. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Johnny Walker Read

    Here is a huge collection of articles, scientific studies, videos, and quotes relating to the Coronavirus. All together, the evidence strongly supports the conclusion that Coronavirus is no more dangerous than a common cold – perhaps even less so. There may be thousand of deaths from something, but not the virus. The data points to 5G electromagnetic exposure.

    You’re most probably wrong about that. There is evidence from China that the virus can cause central nervous system, i.e., brain, damage. That is probably the reason for the disturbing videos from China of infected individuals undergoing convulsions or simply dropping dead in the street.

    If the virus damages the medulla oblongata so that it stops sending impulses to the lungs, breathing ceases and death follows shortly thereafter. That at least is what some have postulated is happening in some cases of Covid19.

    • Replies: @Johnny Walker Read
  376. Loren says:
    @Gleimhart Mantooso

    50 million? Id guess 100-300 million.

    murdered via babies and the great leap forward [cough].

  377. Anonymous[209] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean

    I don’t follow your logic.

    Why do you suppose “China must know what happened” with absolute certainty? Presumably they would have some sort of circumstancial evidence and intel leading them to suspicions of an attack, but I don’t see why they have anything approaching certainty. Plausible deniability is a typical feature of covert ops. We’re talking about an invisible weapon here. This isn’t like the assassination of Soleimani in which a US drone fired a missile at a convoy and blew it to smithereens. The putative weapon is imperceptible.

    Furthermore, there is plausible deniability in the court of international public opinion. Even if it were a US attack, nobody would believe China if it publicly asserted that the US was behind it. Any retaliation China took in reponse would be viewed internationally as unwarranted, unjustified aggression rather than defensive or retaliatory in nature.

    And why do you suppose China would retaliate against the West? China does not have an adversarial relationaship with Europe but has been trying to engage with it to develop its Belt & Road project. Incidentally, Italy, which has been hit hard with the virus, was the first major European economy and G7 country to sign on to the Belt & Road project, which greatly angered the US.

    China’s relationship is becoming more adversarial with the US under the Trump administration, but as you yourself have argued, the US is the dominant economic power which controls the dollar dominated international trading system that China benefits from. A major flu pandemic in the US that disrupted global economic activity and trade would not benefit China. Especially since China hawks among prominent US politicians, authorities, media figures could easily blame China for the attack and be believed by much of the country, giving them the political capital to take further actions to isolate China. US soft power would allow it to easily blame China around the world as well.

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @Sean
  378. Loren says:
    @Jon Halpenny

    why would Ukrainians protect Israel?

    • Replies: @Trinity
    , @Jila
  379. denk says:
    @CanSpeccy

    Hey you cunt,

    My conjecture pass the..
    Four who principle
    Basic detective 101

    Your con theory is based on what…

    I, at the age 76, am projecting my own wishes.

    So its not only your sick projection, its your fucking WISH..to cull the useless eaters !

    Are you BIll Gates per chance ?

    Enuff said.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  380. Loren says:
    @Johnny Smoggins

    Since 1965 more africans have moved to USA than were here when Lincoln was president.
    since 1965 USA Black population has gone from 13 m to 44? m.

    If it hadnt been for LBJ—immigration act AND
    giveaways, Black population might have not tripled in 54 years.
    I guess what you meant is not what you posted.

  381. denk says:
    @Flubber

    You’re projecting your own mental issues.

    Been telling all the idiots here,

    ———————–
    YOur dear leaders have practically advertised their handiwork for all to see.
    FFS !

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1236255/Coronavirus-latest-four-horsemen-coaches-british-flight

  382. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @denk

    All the ‘kill them useless eaters‘ nutcases come from the ‘democrazies’, so stop projecting your gawd damned ‘values’ on the others.
    asshole !

    No, you’re the asshole here. Or perhaps you’re the house troll, serving to insult anyone questioning the dopey idea Ron Unz is pushing that the US took advantage of the presence of US 300 Soldiers at the Military Games in Wuhan to have them spray Covid19 over the bat-meat market (as if America’s multiple spy agencies don’t have their own professional operatives to carry out sabotage missions anywhere in the world).

    And it is absurd to suggest that in pointing out that the use of a virus to wipe out a large proportion of the elderly in China and the rest of the world would make good economic sense to Machiavellian policymakers, I, at the age 76, am projecting my own wishes.

    No, I am proposing a hypothesis that makes better sense than the, in my view, ridiculous ideas being pushed by you, Unz and Giraldi.

    • Replies: @denk
    , @Biff
    , @another fred
  383. Biff says:
    @CanSpeccy

    If it hurts take some Vioxx….

  384. @CanSpeccy

    This crisis will hurt many small, medium, and even some big businesses, and it probably already has. Look at all the empty coffee shops, bars, restaurants, clubs, hotels, entertainment and sports venues, cancelled flights and tours, etc. How long do you think they can survive without any customers? Italy has now locked down 12 million. As lock downs spread many businesses could go under. Bad news for small businessmen and their employees. In fact the old people on their pensions are better off – until the virus hits them. Maybe the virus isn’t so serious but this extreme response will have major repercussions on the middle strata of society. And what happens when they find that someone in a workplace or factory is sick with the virus? Do they continue operating or send everyone into home quarantine for two weeks? Which could be extended for another two weeks. Worries about these kinds of events in the future will encourage even more automation in industry and services, and hence greater unemployment. I’m not sure that the panic is warranted but the economic damage could be significant with many people losing their livelihood. And if they ban cash transactions because contact spreads the virus? Bad news all around.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  385. Hempus says:

    Who Made Coronavirus? Was It the U.S., Israel or China Itself?

    If we discover through better methods of observation a new star or a “new” Galaxy. Does that mean we have “made” this Star or galaxy?

    To claim that a new discovered virus or fragments of it are the reason of pneumonia or related disease is a pure wishfull thinking and strategy of those people who profit a lot from such theories …big pharma industries and the vaccination mafia lead by Bill Gates.

    The WHO white helmets declared martial law on China. A whole nation in fear and panic and degraded to be patsies for an evil plot.
    Because it worked so well the whole strategy is used also against Iran. Of course there is collateral damage..Italy etc.

    The sceneries look like a science fiction movie.
    Innocent people with a liltte fewer or cold hunted like criminals. A Gaza concentration camp for the whole free world? And every dead person who dies in such circumstances counted as Covid 19 victim.

    This is like kidnapping people and use them as crisis actor for a staged chemical weapon attack . Then there is a test which actually says nothing just that you have to live with a new discovered galaxy. But “they” say you have a deathly virus in your body and you are a danger for other people to catch this virus also.

    The inventor of such new obsevation methods into the universe of Viruses dna is Kary Mullis, Nobel price laureate who invented the polimerase chain reaction method (PCR)

    On Wiki “they” run him also as AIDS denier. Would have been interesting what Kary Mullis would have say about the coronavirus but unfortunately he died on August 7th 2019
    Probably Aids denier are something like Holocaust denier?
    Maybe soon we have the corona killervirus denier
    and “Boston bombing” for the whole world?!

  386. @CanSpeccy

    In areas without 5G:
    Mild Symptoms Outside China

    It is stated by Dr. Maria Van Kerkhove, (Head of the WHO’s Health Emergencies Program), in the continuously updated Al Jazeera article, “What happens if you catch the new corona virus?” that “some patients do not show any symptoms,” and that
    “You have mild cases, which look like the common cold, which have some respiratory symptoms, sore throat, runny nose, fever, all the way through pneumonia. And there can be varying levels of severity of pneumonia all the way through multi-organ failure and death,” she told reporters in Geneva last week.
    However, in most cases, symptoms have remained mild.
    “We’ve seen some data on about 17,000 cases and overall 82 percent of those are mild, 15 percent of those are severe and 3 percent of those are classified as critical,” said Van Kerkhove. 18

    And why are people not recovering in Chinese Hospitals?

    5G Systems Installed at Wuhan Coronavirus Hospitals
    And to seemingly add insult to injury here, Huawei was very quick to install 5G systems in the new coronavirus hospitals — Wuhan Volcan Mountain Hospital and Thunder Mountain Hospital — the two hospitals known for only being built in just over a week. 41 425G scientific research
    The two articles cited here are ironically titled, (1) “Huawei installs 5G in China Hospital to fight Coronavirus,” and (2) “Huawei builds 5G in Wuhan Hospital, aims to indirectly fight the Coronavirus” as this might very well be the complete opposite of what they are indeed intending to do here. There is also an interesting video on YouTube entitled “Chinese hospitals deploy robots to help medical staff fight coronavirus outbreak,” 43 demonstrating this in action.

    Can all the symptoms you list be caused by something other than a virus? Yes they can.

    In a paper 62 (written by myself along with Prof. Olle Johansson of the Karolinska Institute) — which I believe offers the most solid hypothesis to date on the main mechanisms by which EMFs do in fact disable the immune system —a number of these related to immune system effects can be found listed in the citations.
    Johansson (2012) further details, in Section 8 of the BioInitiative, “Evidence for EMF Effects on the Immune System,” 63 numerous studies demonstrating those effects, especially with regards to how radiofrequency EMFs alter the immune system.
    In the previously mentioned Aljazeera article,18 it is stated that a study published in the medical journal, The Lancet, on January 24th, found
    what it called a “cytokine storm” in infected patients who were severely ill. The condition is a severe immune reaction in which the body produces immune cells and proteins that can destroy other organs.

    It’s time to quit freaking out over a virus and start addressing the real threat coming down the pipe.

    • Thanks: Nonny Mouse
  387. Iris says:
    @Ano4

    Chinese researcher escorted from infectious disease lab amid RCMP investigation

    Thanks for reminding us of this very important information.

    Chinese researchers being expelled from the Level 4 Virology facility in Winnipeg was the main foundation of the accusations made by the review “GreatGameIndia” that China was responsible for the outbreak of Covid-19:

    Coronavirus Bioweapon – How China Stole Coronavirus From Canada And Weaponized It

    https://greatgameindia.com/coronavirus-bioweapon/

    This accusations have of course to be considered, alongside India’s pro-Isreal, anti-China geopolitical bias.

    It is remarkable that Canada, one of the 5-Eyes nations, had expelled eminent virologist Dr. Xiangguo Qiu, a scientist who had lived and worked in that country since 1996, and who had made outstanding contributions to Ebola research, without even pretending and accusing her of any wrongdoing. No explication given, just out. It looks much like preparatory work for some operation in the making.

    • Replies: @Ano4
    , @Godfree Roberts
  388. annamaria says:
    @Bobby Sands

    “The Washington Post: In China, every day is Kristallnacht, By Fred Hiatt”

    — Beautiful. In Palestine, every night is Kristallnacht. Thanks, Mr. Hiatt. It is surprising that the comparison had been hibernating for so long. And before Palestine, it was the Soviet Russia where every night was Kristallnacht often run by bossy Jewish Bolsheviks making their living in secret police and the GULAG. https://www.amazon.com/Jewish-Run-Concentration-Camps-Soviet-Union/dp/1291002758

    Jews were the commandants of 11 out of the 12 main Stalinist-era Gulags, or concentration camps, including the camp system directors Matvei Berman and Hershel Jehuda [chairman of the NKVD 1934–1936]. Ultimately, some 14 million people would be detained in the 53 camps which operated from 1934 to 1953.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naftaly_Frenkel
    https://www.conservapedia.com/Genrikh_Yagoda
    https://spartacus-educational.com/RUSyagoda.htm
    The dirty and ridiculous Fifth Column in Russia and the exposure of Bolsheviks’ progeny in Israel: https://thesaker.is/bloody-monday-grandnephew-of-gulag-organizer-stabbed-the-echo-of-moscow-editor/

  389. @Delta G

    Dr Mrs Delta G. and Jimmy 1969
    Your so – called”experts” you can keep them. They are like everybody else. They have bills and need to eat. Meaning they can be bought and paid. In fact, a lot of them are. Look at the “experts” surrounding big pharma, Monsanto, Bayer, Dow…who are sometimes nothing more than salesmen or sandwich men… Or the “experts” who came to the conclusion that WT7 collapsed due to fire…
    The worst being maybe the vaccination lobby “experts” denying the link with the rise of autism / parkinson / sudden death of the new born and various psychiatric disorders. See the Robert de Niro story about his child.
    Independecy is an important point. Godfree Roberts clarified that in another thread : “I don’t work for anybody”.
    Giraldi’s article is well balanced and credible. It assembles in a synthetic way the pieces of the puzzle : economy, foreign relations, biology and US domestic politics.
    Please also note that the Covid – 19 being a dangerous virus is a sufficient condition. You take this dangerous thing and you spread it. That it is bio – engineerd is not necessary, to speak in a mathematical way you might be fond of…
    That said I think it was (bio engineerd).

    • Replies: @Iris
  390. Caruthers says:
    @anon

    Imagine the shrieks of “antisemitism” if anyone sought to create a virus that would only harm Jews.

  391. @CanSpeccy

    To a significant proportion of the population, to observe something and give it voice is to reveal your desire, even “to speak it into existence”.

    This is why so many scientists guard what they say. It is one thing to write on a board like this where one hopes for anonymity, but it can actually be a dangerous thing to do in public.

    There is no hope for changing this, it operates at a very primitive level.

    To paraphrase Jonathon Swift, most people are as well equipped for flapping their arms and flying as for thinking.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  392. @Iris

    …the Anglo-Zionist powers-that-be that you strive to defend…

    That’s a false allegation. I am not defending anyone; merely pointed out the case for why an accidental release of the coronavirus appears more likely, and I haven’t read a serious refutation of that here.

    • Replies: @Iris
  393. Iris says:
    @Christophe GJ

    That said I think it was (bio engineerd).

    The gullible and the Zio trolls alike don’t like that sort of questioning.
    Facts however prove your opinions are legitimate and sensible.

    In 2017, non-MSM media reported that the US Air Force was looking to acquire samples of ribonucleic acid (RNA) and synovial fluid from Russians, according to a government website used to place tenders. This creepy order was interpreted as an attempt to build weaponized viruses directed at Russians.

    ‘Weaponizing viruses’? US Air Force places ad for bio samples from Russians

    https://www.rt.com/usa/397883-us-airforce-russian-rna-sample-tender/

  394. Ano4 says:
    @Ron Unz

    To put the sudden death of Plummer in context:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=Plummer%2C%20SARS&utm_source=gquery&utm_medium=search

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2828578/

    Again, probably just a coincidence, but Plummer was certainly an expert in this type of viruses their receptors (ACE-2) and also an expert in HIV.

    Which brings me to:

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3052495/coronavirus-far-more-likely-sars-bond-human-cells-scientists-say

    When first described by an Indian bioinformatics group, this coronavirus HIV-like characteristic was deemed highly unlikely to have arisen naturally through random mutation.

    The Indian article, published on a non pair reviewed site was withdrawn due to a strong criticism.

    A team of (mainly) Chinese bioinformaticians later published this:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/32056509

    Someone as knowledgeable as Plummer might’ve had a lot of insight into the origins of this virus and its peculiar characteristics.

    Unfortunately, he will not be available to comment upon it…

    Sorry for the long comment.

  395. Meimou says:
    @Franklin Ryckaert

    The fact that zioshill Alex Jones implied that the chicoms infected their own population makes me look at Israel as well.

  396. Ano4 says:
    @Iris

    IMHO it is even more remarkable that the person that directed the Winnipeg lab during a number of years, an expert in SARS, Ebola and HIV, Frank A. Plummer suddenly died in early February.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Plummer

    This man might have had a lot of insight into the whole Covid-19 situation.

    His death was nearly unreported by the media.

    Probably just a coincidence…

    • Thanks: Iris
  397. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Commentator Mike

    This crisis will hurt many small, medium, and even some big businesses, and it probably already has.

    No doubt. And big business too. As economies have slowed, the demand for oil has contracted and OPEC has lost control on the oil price. As a result, the Saudis have opened the spigot. They may be able to do almost as well at $30 a barrel as at $60 — they just have to pump twice as much, which would mean death to most of the US oil industry.

    But in the longer-term, speeding the transfer of the wealth of tens of millions of retired people to the next generation would provide the economy with a huge boost.

    Needles to say (needless, that is, were it not for morons like Denk), as a person of retirement age, if not retired, I am absolutely opposed to any government conspiracy to bring about such an accelerated transfer of wealth.

  398. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @another fred

    To a significant proportion of the population, to observe something and give it voice is to reveal your desire, even “to speak it into existence”.

    That is a crackpot and a dangerous claim.

    It is a meme that any tyrant would love.

    Nobody to speak of the crimes that may be committed by the elite, since to speak of such crimes means to desire that they be committed, and even to ensure that they are committed.

    No: long live Hitler, long live Mao, long live Stalin. May their crimes be applauded and the evil in their hearts be ignored. Only when people speak that way, can we be sure that all good things will happen equally to everyone.

  399. @denk

    How do you control the citizenry , you scare the hell out of them , then they will do anything(shelter in place,self-quarantine) and agree to anything ( mandatory vaccinations, 24/7 surveillance , TSA intrusive searches, $8.3 billion to fight a fake pandemic)if it means feeling more secure . In China they have used the Coronavirus outbreak ( isn’t it just the flu under a different name ? They don’t even have an accurate and reliable test for it ) to increase surveillance as confirmed by the following articles :
    “Coronavirus controls increase surveillance danger [in China]” news.trust.org
    “The Coronavirus gives China reason to increase its Citizen surveillance ” fortune.com
    “Six ways why the Coronavirus fails the sniff test ” theburningplatform.com

    • Agree: Desert Fox
    • Disagree: denk
    • Replies: @denk
  400. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @denk

    Hey you cunt,

    Wow, Denk’s gone full Red Guard.

    But what can he possibly mean?

    At one time, I thought Denk must be a poor implementation of an AI troll. But now, if that what he is, the cogs and sprockets seem to be pinging out of the box.

    And as a spokesman for The People’s Republic of China, well, just sad.

    • Replies: @denk
  401. Iris says:
    @Been_there_done_that

    merely pointed out the case for why an accidental release of the coronavirus appears more likely, and I haven’t read a serious refutation of that here.

    You have used a flawed reasoning, basing it on conditional probabilities to give it a pretence of science, to try and refute an opinion that was in no way less credible than yours, and that was much more researched and better demonstrated.

    If the existence of a Chinese Level 4 Virology lab in the heart of Wuhan indeed makes the accidental release of Covid-19 by Chinese individual more likely, and therefore highly increases the conditional probability of it happening, the same applies to the hypothesis defended by your contenders.

    In other terms, the conditional probability of a deliberate release by the Zio/US PTB, considering:
    – the visit of a large number of military personnel bound by official secrets acts to Wuhan
    – in a town that is central to China’s scientific development
    – during a time window where people’s travel make the spread of an epidemic more likely
    – under a pattern where the pandemic jumps borders to hit most so-called enemies of the ZOG, including Italy, only European country to have joined the R&B initiative;
    is also a much higher probability.

    So, unless you are able to quantify the conditional probability of either possibilities, it remains a qualitative matter, not a quantitative one, and the contending opinions are as valid, if not more than yours. At least, your contenders are honest enough to openly admit they forged an opinion, instead of pretending to be “scientific” and “detached” as you do.

  402. Sean says:
    @Anonymous

    Ron said the timing was suspicious. It arising in Wuhan was too. China is capable of examining the virus and how it spread. A natural event origin would be very different to a bioweapon released so as to cause a starburst spread in a ten day window. Virologists typing it, and epidemiological detective work especially, could work out if it was a deliberate attack on China. If that is the case it is likely the Chinese are pretty sure of it by now, and feel they must deter a still more lethal repeat, meaning they will retaliate with massive escalation, probably using pneumonic plague (to which they are substantially imune for the same reason they get Coronavirus) within the Beltway.

    Some people here are speculating that Israel is behind the putative bioweapon attack on China. Not a chance. America ought to be doing something to stop Chinese growth, because that is in the long term interests of China. But by the same token, what possible advantage could Israel have in precipitating a war between China and America that would leave America less able to fight Israel’s enemies in the Middle East? If Israel has control of US policy it is not going to use that for the long term interests of anyone but Israel. It is like the analogy of a dog with rabies, it bites to spread the disease. It does not try to mate; there is nothing in that for the virus.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  403. denk says:
    @CanSpeccy

    Picking on my compliment ,
    while sidestepping my demolition
    of your con theory….

    Enuff said.

  404. denk says:
    @9/11 Inside job

    Quoting two western pov to
    bolster your own western pov ?

    Sorry….no smoking gun. !

    My conjecture of [[[US]]] bio-warfare is based on solid facts…

    Basic detective 101

    FOUR WHO TEST…

    [[[US]]] has the motive to hurt China,
    [[[US]]] benefits from this caper,
    [[[US]]] has the largest bioweapon arsenal,
    [[[US]]] has used bioweapon many times before, including several attacks
    on China.

    ====> its highly likely an enemy action from [[[US]]].

    See, your pov vs my fact based conclusion. !

    ————————

    P.S.
    1] The idiot canspeccy avoid this scientific analysis while resorting
    on ad hominem.

    2] Hey firefox,
    I remember you agreeing on a
    [[[FUKUS]]] attack ???

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
    , @Poco
  405. Anon[324] • Disclaimer says:
    @denk

    Not to worry , Denk: he’s getting older…

    • Replies: @denk
  406. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @denk

    1] The idiot canspeccy avoid this scientific analysis while resorting
    on ad hominem.

    Scientific analysis?

    Wow, Denk’s completely raving now: thinks “Hey you cunt” is some kind of science.

    But that’s where the Unz mode of comment moderation gets you. In the slime, with the bully boys of the Commie Red Guards, intent on the liquidation of class enemies, i.e., people who will not grovel before the tyrannical state.

  407. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Sean

    Unfortunately, there’s no one here who knows anything useful, certainly not Geraldi or Unz, so there’s no basis for assessing the likelihood of Corvid19 being (a) an engineered bioweapon, (b) a virus from the wild that made the jump to a human host, (c) a biowarfare agent released by the US, (d) a biowarefare agent deliberately released by China, (e) a biowarfare agent released by the US and China acting in collaboration, as their scientists have long collaborated in research on bat viruses, (f) a biowarfare agent accidentally released by China (the mere suggestion of which will likely bring additional obscene vituperation on my head from crazy Chinaman Denk), (g) a biowarfare agent released by a third party, possibly Israel — but why not Russia, or a non-state agent intent on, say, disrupting the world oil market, or cornering the market in anti-viral face masks.

    And there must surely be other possibilities. But in any case we have wasted our time here since nothing useful, interesting or new has been made evident.

    What is clear, though, is that if the Unz hypothesis, that the virus was loosed on China by the US to give the US an edge economically, nothing has been gained since Corvid19 has proved to be a boomerang that will likely take much more out of the GDP of the US, let alone all Western nations, that it takes out of the GDP of China. China is evidently better able to manage the disease than America and most other Western countries where the policy appears to be: let it rip.

    • Agree: Bert
    • Replies: @Sean
  408. So, unless you are able to quantify the conditional probability of either possibilities, it remains a qualitative matter, not a quantitative one, and the contending opinions are as valid, if not more than yours.

    The probabilities in any case cannot be quantified because the statistics pertaining to prior cases of accidents or sloppiness at various labs are likely secret, but we do know such instances have occurred, and it might have been more often than we would think. As I pointed out, the conditional probabilities, which I posed as questions to consider, rather than some simplistic time window calculation, were premised on and linked to prior high probabilities, with near certainty. The focus is more narrow and less conjectural than the suspicion of a nefarious secret agent operation.

    You ignored two points I made about why I regarded an intentional release less likely: The notion that it would be too risky without an antidote already being available, and the fact that the virus was released a few weeks too early if it had been intended to cause maximum damage. So I simultaneously provided independent arguments for why an intentional release was less likely and why an accidental release was more likely. In conjunction, they provide a better qualitative argument than what advocates for an intentional release have provided here.

    You seem to be suggesting that northern Italy is now suffering from an epidemic that was initiated independently from the outbreak in Wuhan, a different release. Do you have evidence for that? The rapid rise of infection in Italy could be explained by at least two known factors: Medical authorities allowed a sick patient early on to go about his activities for over a week instead of ordering a quarantine, and a Pakistani who had been infected, and was ordered to quarantine himself, violated the order and continued delivering Chinese take-out food to others, who then got infected.

    If you want to continue pursuing the conspiratorial angle then you or others ought to investigate whether the many cases that have occurred in Iran are based on a somewhat different virus from the one that came from Wuhan, yet still similar enough to also react positively to the same tests that are given to assess an infection. Also, you could investigate whether the tests used in Iran have somehow been sabotaged to provide higher rates of false negative results, which would allow the virus to spread into the population more quickly.

    • Replies: @Iris
    , @9/11 Inside job
    , @denk
  409. Bert says:

    Skeptikal says:
    March 6, 2020 at 9:59 pm GMT
    “I read that a bat carries up to 500 viruses, many different cold or corona virus strains.”
    Could that be because most bats (that is, most bat species) nourish themselves by sucking the blood of warm-blooded animals?

    Jiminy says:
    March 7, 2020 at 4:01 pm GMT • 100 Words
    @Skeptikal
    Experts believe that bats carry large amounts of viruses because the act of flight for the mammal is very demanding. Their body breaks down at a cellular level and as a result large amounts of DNA are coursing through their body. Because of this the bat has a lower level of immunity so large numbers of viruses can be carried and tolerated , as well as it’s own broken down DNA. Most bats eat insects, and some eat fruit and nectar, but not many deliberately drink blood. I can only think of one.

    Ron Unz is proud of his commentariat; he thinks it is especially intelligent. Robert McNamara was proud of Project 100,000 until decades later he decided it was a flawed idea. I wonder how many of McNamara’s Morons actually shot each other in mutual confusion. Unz’s Uneducables appear to do something like that.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  410. @Han 21

    https://21stcenturywire.com/2018/01/21/wmd-america-inside-pentagons-global-bioweapons-industry/

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-08-18/trouble-coming-walmart-nation

    Now believe that big lies told often enough get cult followings. Now I really find it terribly naive that people separate protection rackets as good or bad.. Old enough to know that ” know nothing”. Quite sure that Tolstoy put it better.. What I do know is the the Elites lie like crazy .. Know for a fact from my compiler and language development that the Capx guys have this sick central planning and control of bread and circus and addictions, religion, science for selfish reasons. Now what you are seeing now is https://americans4innovation.blogspot.com/2020/02/coronavirus-uncovers-rothschild-lord.html SPECULATION ..

    now these people have no control over the propaganda.. When the blood cell transfer is 1^98 power (estimate) the weaponize world exist… HOAX Now Nixon was my hero (stopped Nam) and presidents are really spokesman for a protection racket… Cui Bono?

  411. Outi says:

    Perhaps one of the goals is to cancel Olympic Games in Japan, now that the truth about Fukushima is emerging slowly but surely.

  412. denk says:
    @Anon

    See his latest rant ?

    The old fart is getting beyond senile,
    he’s acting juvenile
    an old child 😉

    Since there’s no point debating an
    idiot I shall not demean myself reasoning with that child,

    hehehhe

  413. @BDS Always

    Balmer was Marketing from Proctor and Gamble..

  414. @Franklin Ryckaert

    “9/11” was a Tisha B’Av Ceremony. “Covid-19” is their newest “9/11” Ritual per Revelation 9-11: 
     

    [MORE]

    Revelation 9-11 King James Version (KJV)

    9 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

    2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

    3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

    4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

    5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

    6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

    7 And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.

    8 And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.

    9 And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.

    10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.

    11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

    Note the bat wings of Abaddon… and note also the arrow in Abaddon’s right hand. He will hurl it and kill the already supine and defeated Christian on the ground… absolutely no mercy and absolutely no mystery to me who Abaddon or what “Covid-19” represents.

    Get ready for your mandatory vaccine shots you stupid filthy pig-eating goyim!

    • Replies: @Maowasayali
  415. Iris says:
    @Been_there_done_that

    The probabilities in any case cannot be quantified because the statistics pertaining to prior cases of accidents or sloppiness at various labs are likely secret

    In which case, please refrain from labelling others’ opinions “meaningless” and “self-deceptive”, as you are nowhere able to show how the conditional probability of your version could be higher than the conditional probability of your contenders’ version.

    As I pointed out, the conditional probabilities [..] were premised on and linked to prior high probabilities, with near certainty.

    The prior higher probabilities highlighted by your contenders are very high, too: after all, only the US is known to have actually used biological weapons in the past. And Israel is so pathetically impudent that they dare publicly rejoicing of the pandemic hitting Iran. The “Dancing Israelis” syndrome at work, once again.

    The notion that it would be too risky without an antidote already being available

    Nobody can be sure of that, as nobody can prove for certain whether the virus was engineered and how it was released. It is possible that the antidote exists but is being sat upon to cause maximum damage, preserve plausible deniability or God knows what other reason.

    the fact that the virus was released a few weeks too early if it had been intended to cause maximum damage

    This statement is incorrect and was replied to when the real incubation period was discussed above in the thread. The time window of approximately two and a half months to witness a full blown pandemic is actually proven correct by the current situation of 3 major countries: Italy, France and the UK. While the arrival of contaminated nationals of these countries started around the New Year, the pandemic is now reaching levels alarming enough to drive the authorities taking exceptional measures, such as a quarantine of Northern Italia. The curve below is particularly eloquent:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8088065/Coronavirus-hits-Oxford-University-Student-tests-positive-deadly-bug.html

    If you want to continue pursuing the conspiratorial angle then you or others ought to investigate whether the many cases that have occurred in Iran are based on a somewhat different virus

    This website is not Breitbart or Infowars. There are some very, very smart people writing and commenting here: you will not be taken seriously if you still believe what you are told in the MSM, just because it is difficult to admit to having been fooled for all your life. I have been, too, I am not ashamed to admit it.

    Finally, whether intentional or not, the version you defend is the same promoted by the Israelis:

    Israeli Expert: China Might Have Created the Coronavirus
    Former IDF intelligence officer and expert on biological warfare suggests coronavirus no accident.

    https://www.israeltoday.co.il/read/israeli-expert-china-might-have-created-the-coronavirus/

    • Replies: @Been_there_done_that
  416. Hempus,

    You could be onto something…. I’d like to think so but I’m not sure yet….If this coronavirus is just the renaming of the common cold or flu, then the way it’s being handled is doing a lot of damage, mostly economic, except to Big Pharma. Still, the precautionary measures should also limit the transmission and incidence of the common cold and flu, and other communicable diseases. So it’s not all bad I guess as adopting these precautions could lower the deaths due to regular flu significantly, considering the mode of transmission is the same. Let’s wait and see how the numbers add up at the end of the season – if they’ll give us true figures and breakdown by coronavirus and regular influenza fatalities. In fact the total deaths due to coronavirus + influenza could end up being significantly lower than would have been due to influenza because of the strict controls on transmission.

  417. anon[921] • Disclaimer says:
    @sally

    How does infection detection method of WHO vs infection detection method of CDC (USA will not allow WHO methods of virus detection be used) fit into this picture .?

    Sally, this really needs to be sourced, because with a source it makes the whole case for the source being US and the infection being a bioweapon far, far more credible, imho anyway.

  418. Cratylus says:

    File in your irony folder.
    China sends help to a US-occupied nation, Iraq.
    Quite amazing:
    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3074166/china-sends-medical-team-iraq-help-tackle-coronavirus-epidemic

    The US has the resources to combat the epidemic, far and above what China has, given the relative sizes of the population. And the US had weeks to prepare – but did little. And that applies not only to Trump as the MSM would have us believe -it is also true at the state, local and corporate (Health Care Behemoths, both insurers and hospitals) levels. Here in CA the very pwogwessive Gov. Newsom did not even ensure that we had enough tests!!! He is still working on it. Helluva job, Gavin.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  419. @Been_there_done_that

    How do we know those living in Italy ,or elsewhere for that matter, have actually come down with the Coronavirus.?From what I have read there are presently no accurate or reliable tests for COVID-19 .
    The Financial Times reports as of 8.23pm GMT on March 8,2020 “Mapping the Coronavirus :109,636
    confirmed cases ,3801 deaths “ ft.comSo either they are lying to us or they , like the rest of the mainstream media , are swallowing the statistics spewed out by WHO and other such agencies as the gospel truth.
    As Jon Rappoport has observed ,we have been lied to constantly about the number of annual flu cases and reported deaths from the flu, see “It’s flu shot propaganda season! Beware the lies about the vaccine.”foreignpolicyjournal.com
    Trump just signed a $8.3 billion spending bill to fight the alleged Coronavirus outbreak, “big pharma” is going to be “laughing all the way to the bank.”

    • Agree: Johnny Walker Read
    • Replies: @9/11 Inside job
  420. Sean says:
    @CanSpeccy

    Comparative genetic analysis of the novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV/SARS-CoV-2) receptor ACE2 in different populations

    The virus could simply have escaped from an ordinary research lab. It attacks Chinese worse so it is unlikely they engineered it.

    https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/03/03/science.abb2762
    Structural basis for the recognition of the SARS-CoV-2 by full-length human ACE2 (4 Mar 2020)

    “Although ACE2 is hijacked by some coronaviruses, its primary physiological role is in the maturation of angiotensin, a peptide hormone that controls vasoconstriction and blood pressure. ACE2 is a type I membrane protein expressed in lungs, heart, kidneys and intestine (15–17). Decreased expression of ACE2 is associated with cardiovascular diseases”

    Chinese food is more likely to be a Chinese bioweapon that the virus.

    —-
    Re who gets an edge. Power is a relative thing, the US probably should do something drastic to China now even if it hurts the US economy, but the people in charge of the US are not Deep State they are Wall St and they are banking on Chinese growth continuing. The US is going to try and slow Chinese growth down, but it has left it too late to use purely economic means.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  421. @Johnny Walker Read

    Check the site veteranstoday.com they have an article titled , Los Angles , chemtrail attack, is this how they plan to take us all out.

    • Thanks: Johnny Walker Read
  422. Trinity says:
    @Loren

    Isn’t Ukraine’s president a Jew? How many Jews hold powerful positions in Ukraine? Hell, why does America continually protect Israel? Israel, a country that has betrayed America with the Lavon Affair, the attack on the USS Liberty, the Jonathan Pollard case, Julius and Ethel Rosenberg ( okay, just Jews but we know where their loyalty lied, it was with Israel and not the Soviet Union I bet.) And that is just the shit we know about and not the questionable stuff where Israel looks pretty damn suspect like JFK, 9-11, as two examples.

  423. @9/11 Inside job

    See also :”How the CDC uses fear and deception to sell more flu vaccines “ jeremyhammond.com
    I have noticed that whenever a representative of the CDC comes on TV to spread fear about the Coronavirus they inevitably recommend getting a (worthless?)flu shot.

    • Agree: Desert Fox
  424. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Sean

    The virus could simply have escaped from an ordinary research lab. It attacks Chinese worse so it is unlikely they engineered it.

    Thing is, bat viruses don’t normally attack people. To make a bat virus capable of infecting humans it must be modified in such a way that it can attach to a human cell surface protein.

    Such modification to viral function have been made in the laboratory. Specifically, at a US level 4 Biohazard lab in North Carolina a chimeric bat Corona virus was produced that is capable of attaching to the ACE2 cell surface protein of human alveolar (lung lining) tissue.

    This is called “gain-of-function” research which is now largely if not entirely prohibited in the US. It is, in other words, dangerous work. Dangerous, that is for the world if the damn thing gets loose and is capable of killing people. Thus one should not expect to find such synthetic viruses anywhere but in a high-level biohazard lab, of which China currently has only one, that being in Wuhan.

    The work in North Caroline was conducted in collaboration with Chinese scientists, so the people in Wuhan must be well aware of the work (anyway some of it has been published in the open literature) and may have material created in the US. At least, there would be nothing specially remarkable if that were so. Clearly American and Chinese virologists have a close collegial relationship and thus certainly share information and probably material too.

    Thus, if Covid19 is a lab escape, and if the escape was from a lab in China, it was almost certainly from the Level 4 lab in Wuhan.

    It (Corvid19) attacks¸Chinese worse so it is unlikely they engineered it.

    That does not follow. Biowarfare research must be as much concerned with defense as offence, and to study defensive measure one must have the agent of offense with which one may have to deal.

    The US is going to try and slow Chinese growth down, but it has left it too late to use purely economic means.

    I don’t see why they would try. America’s problems are not rooted in China, they are rooted in America’s globalist elite, who wish to rule the world, while trashing the US and every other nation state.

    They aim for total integration of the world’s economy, i.e., open borders, free-flow of labor, capital and technology, which is a travesty of Ricardo’s conception of free trade and comparative advantage. This is what has impoverished much of America, as jobs and the capital and technology to go with them has been shifted to China and other cheap labor areas.

    The solution is not to damage China but to put the skids under America’s treasonous elite and institute measures that protect the national economic interest, i.e., massively improving technical education, punishing those who move capital and technology abroad or who whimper about the need of H1b visa immigrants as cheap replacements for America technicians.

    In time, perhaps quite soon, China will likely have a much large GDP than the US by virtue of its much greater population. Ditto, probably India, although China may falter due to the deadening effect of totalitarian governance, and India may never achieve take-off for other fairly obvious reasons. But whatever happens with these two nations that account for almost half of humanity, the US can prosper and achieve total security without buggering up anyone else’s country.

    Consider Russia, for example, a GDP not hugely greater than Canada’s yet a military that entirely checks that of the mighty US with a 20-fold greater military budget.

    • Agree: Alfred, Godfree Roberts
  425. Anonymous[104] • Disclaimer says:

    It is interesting that Wuhan, South Korea, Iran, and Italy are all areas that have upset the US foreign policy agenda in recent years.

    Wuhan is the pilot city for the “Made in China 2025” project, which the US opposes and regards as a threat.

    The current South Korean president is pro-China and pro-North Korea, and has been reluctant to accept US demands to install the THAAD missile system in South Korea that is aimed at China and North Korea.

    Iran of course is targeted as a rogue regime by the US.

    Italy was the first major European country to sign on to the Belt and Road initiative, against the US’s wishes.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  426. Sean says:

    This is called “gain-of-function” research which is now largely if not entirely prohibited in the US.

    You could not get a grant to do it after there were widespread concerns over a so called gain of function experiments in the US and in Holland in 2011. As Martin Rees sais in his new book, ‘It was shown in 2011 that it is surprisingly easy to make flu viruses more virulent and transmissible’By the way

    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/02/exclusive-controversial-experiments-make-bird-flu-more-risky-poised-resume

    EXCLUSIVE: Controversial experiments that could make bird flu more risky poised to resume
    By Jocelyn Kaiser Feb. 8, 2019 , 8:45 PM

    ——

    But whatever happens with these two nations that account for almost half of humanity, the US can prosper and achieve total security without buggering up anyone else’s country.

    No, as with any other organism or living thing a nation state must not only be efficient enough to survive in a certain environment, it must win competition with others of its kind. Mearsheimer puts it best:

    Given the difficulty of determining how much power is enough for today and tomorrow, great powers recognize that the best way to ensure their security is to achieve hegemony now, thus eliminating any possibility of a challenge by another great power. Only a misguided state would pass up an opportunity to be the hegemon in the system because it thought it already had sufficient power to survive.

    But in the 90s Mearsheimer said Ukraine needed nuclear weapons to deter Russia from attacking Ukraine, so what does he know. As for the Russian’s detterting America, Russia ended up fighting in Georgia, and is still at war with Ukraine, 490 kilometres from Moscow. All that happens when you withdraw as Russia did from Eastern Europe is another power is drawn in. China would build a naval base in Mexico if you had your isolationist way.

    • LOL: Alfred
    • Replies: @annamaria
    , @CanSpeccy
  427. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Anonymous

    It is interesting that Wuhan, South Korea, Iran, and Italy are all areas that have upset the US foreign policy agenda in recent years.

    If that’s so interesting, how come there’s no major outbreak in Russia, Venezuela, or since Trump was apoplectic with Boris Johnson at the end of their last telephone conversation, Britain?

    The answer, of course, is that although the government of the US may be fairly inept, even at times brutal, it is not barking mad.

  428. @ThreeCranes

    For that matter you could also ask things like: Why would Trump withdraw from the INF treaty when the U.S. might also be destroyed in a nuclear war?

    Or why would the U.S. “government” let the Japanese attack Pearl Harbor or why would the U.S. “government” let Israel get away with attacking the USS Liberty?

    And the answer always is: they do what they do because they’re evil.

    • Replies: @Desert Fox
  429. lots of conjecture here ,but no answers ….not china , us or israel ….japan , specifically the handiwork of yoshiro kawaoka ( dr death )….the lead actor in developing this virus ( and the revival of unit 731 )…there are many parts to this conspiracy ( porton down is one of them ). the virus consists of original components from the ” spanish flu ” – dug up several years ago , the remains of a native alasakan ….carefully cultured….hiv proteins inserted and the addition of m. tuberculosis dna sequencing …..gain of function implemented ….original target oct. military games , wuhan….too warm , too dry….macrobats aka flying fox infected used as vector…contaminated Yangtze river , including fish farms …..for the who,what ,where ,when and how , consult the work of japanese investigative reporter yoichi shimatsu …12 installments so far, he can be found on rense.com

  430. @Harold Smith

    Or why did Israel and the zionists in the ZUS government get away with destroying the WTC on 911 and throw America into war in the middle east for Israels greater Israel agenda!

  431. @Iris

    The time window of approximately two and a half months to witness a full blown pandemic is actually proven correct by the current situation of 3 major countries:

    So now you have changed – and essentially destroyed – the earlier narrative, presented earlier in this thread that I had been skeptical about, which was the supposition that American operatives, while using their presence at the Wuhan military games as cover, had released the bio-engineered virus intentionally in Wuhan to cause maximum damage to China’s economy.

    However, a release at a later time would have caused greater damage to China because the virus would have spread more widely during the travel period surrounding the lunar holiday, without any counter-measures, like mass quarantines, having yet been implemented to curtail the spread.

    Yet now you are assering that the implicit intent was to achieve a full-blown pandemic, including in European countries, in two and a half months while disregarding that the pandemic would have been even more full blown with a later release. There is then no longer a particular reason why a release at the particular time it occurred would have been more advantageous than any other time. Even in summer, when people’s immune systems are stronger, this dampening effect would be compensated by the enhancement from higher travel patterns when people take their vacations.

    Consequently, the probability calculation that led to the conclusion, that the time of release was far too suspicious to have been coincidental, breaks down as meaningless. Aside from that, a putative plotter could hardly predict accurately, how the nature of the infectious progression would manifest itself after three months because there are too many unknown variables that effect it.

    Also, instead of being analytically objective and detached, you revealed your ideological bias in your suggestion, that if an Israeli biological expert was quoted as having said something (accidental release), it almost necessarily must be false, so that anybody who might agree with that proposition, based on logic or common sense, must thereby be automatically suspect.

    Without having given it too much thought in advance, you have actually contradicted yourself and underscored the case I had made.

  432. reezy says:
    @Realist

    I would like to know the percent of the ACE2 gene in Northwest Europeans, East Asians, Persians and Italians.

    The %ACE2 gene in all racial/ethnic groups is 100, i.e. all humans have it. And there’s no clear data on allelic differences in susceptibility to coronavirus.

    It’s the expression level of ACE2 (particularly in lung tissue), which is itself regulated by hundreds if not thousands of other genes, that are different.

    • Replies: @Bert
  433. uradel666 says:

    Coronavirus theme is not the war issue.
    Using the threat of “Coronaviruses” is to exsufflate of the World inflation bloated by International Banking Sector, yet at the same time, it is the “Wall Street project” to prevent the recurrence of 2008 crisis.

  434. @Biff

    “In summary, somebody was entangled with the evolution of 2019-nCoV coronavirus. In addition to origins of natural recombination and intermediate host, the killer coronavirus probably originated from a laboratory in Wuhan. Safety level may need to be reinforced in high risk biohazardous laboratories. Regulations may be taken to relocate these laboratories far away from city center and other densely populated places. “
    https://img-prod.tgcom24.mediaset.it/images/2020/02/16/114720192-5eb8307f-017c-4075-a697-348628da0204.pdf

  435. Bert says:
    @reezy

    Right. For those less informed than you, here is a disease-oriented explanation of the phenomena of “expressivity” and “penetrance.”

    https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/primer/inheritance/penetranceexpressivity

    Those interested should note that these two subtleties of transmission genetics apply to many inherited traits that are not connected with disease.

  436. Anouk says:

    AGENDA BEHIND the : the re-engineering of the US dollar (in Chicago as predicted a few years ago?) through integration of the Renminbi and IMF.

    “Carney discusses the fact that China as the world leading trading nation is the obvious candidate to replace the dollar as leading reserve, however, he notes, “…for the Renminbi to become a truly global currency, much more is required. Moreover, history teaches that the transition to a new global reserve currency may not proceed smoothly.”

    Is the Fed Preparing to Topple US Dollar?
    By F. William Engdahl
    1 September 2019

    http://www.williamengdahl.com/englishNEO1Sept2019.php

  437. JosephB says:
    @denk

    “YOu have to do better than that ,”

    Ok, put up or shut up time. From your prior post:
    “p[its an enemy action from USA] = 99.999999%”

    If you believe this statement, you should be agnostic on taking a bet at 99,999,999 to 1 odds on whether or not it was an enemy action by the US. I’ll accept that you may have missed a decimal point, and meant to type “99.99999. ” I’ll even go a step further and cut the implied odds in half. Surely you’ll be all over a bet at 5,000,000 to 1 odds that it is enemy action.

    If you’re game, let’s find a third party to hold the stakes. I will wager 1 US cent that it was not enemy action. You’ll only have to put up $50,000 to cover your half of the bet. Remember, I shifted the odds 20 fold from what you posted (otherwise it would require $1 million to cover).

    If you believe what you posted, you should be all over this bet.

    I posted “LOL” because so many folks are throwing around probability in this thread without having the slightest clue what it means, or how one would go about computing it. If I was wrong, please accept the bet and we can start discussing who holds the cash.

    Your numbers are even more egregious than Mr. Unz’s, which takes some doing.

  438. @JosephB

    Wait a second. You do realize that probability and odds are not the same thing, don’t you?

    Odds = p/(1 – p)

    • Replies: @JosephB
  439. Poco says:
    @denk

    No. The most logical culprit for creating the virus is wakanda. Wakandans aren’t susceptible to it. Simple logic right. They slipped it to some chinese who were returning to china from wakanda.

  440. denk says:
    @JosephB

    So this is your better argument ?

    I posted “LOL” because so many folks are throwing around probability in this thread without having the slightest clue what it means, or how one would go about computing it.

    I’ve shown my conditional pr calculation to ‘been there done that

    Lets see yours !

    • Replies: @JosephB
  441. JosephB says:
    @denk

    I’m a simple man. I’m not asserting a particular probability, merely that yours is off by several orders of magnitude. If you believed in your number you would take my bet. Heck, you’d even demand I bump up the stakes to $1.

    If you say the high temperature in NYC next Monday will be -40 and I say that’s wrong, I do not have to put forward what the temperature will be. We can simply make a bet and settle it when evidence comes in. The first approach causes more internet arguments, the second approach tends to resolve them.

    Put up or shut up.

    • Replies: @denk
  442. According to the experts, coronovirus pretends to be the body’s friend, then destroys it internally when its guard is down. It has no respect for national borders & a true parasite makes home in other nations aw a hostile elite easily.

    I don’t call it coronavirus. I call it either:

    1) Cellar Virus
    2) Hart Virus
    3) Lord Dubbs Virus

  443. Turk 152 says:

    Another possibility that nobody has even mentioned is what we are witnessing is a very successful act of nonstate terrorism against China. This is the exact plot of every action movie since James Bond being played out.

    Any state actor releasing a bioweapon will know that the problems with bioweapons, which have been around since at least the 1940s, is that if you make one powerful enough to inflict damage it will inevitably infect your own country as the disease spreads. Indeed, that is exactly what we are witnessing, despite rumors of an ethno-bioweapon. A nonstate actor, would not necessarily care if an entire country damaged and it spread to other countries.

    It would also be too embarrassing for the respective governments involved to admit that a nonstate actor was able to disrupt their entire country and the world. How difficult would it be for a powerful villain to bribe a Wuhan lab worker making a paltry salary?

    • Replies: @JosephB
  444. pappagone says:

    there are a lot of articles which given direction of what/who caused coronavirus: https://www.gospanews.net/2020/02/04/da-cambridge-lallarme-sulle-bio-armi-etniche-25-laboratori-usa-contro-cinesi-e-russi-il-vaccino-corona-virus-lo-cerchera-un-partner-del-pentagono/

    this is one of the best article where there are names and surnames of who are working from decades to create a pandemic and if possible direct precisely to one race, there are some corporations (between the best BigPharma leading corporations) which are immediately ready to sell vaccines for coronavirus….
    This is a bit more than a suspect . IsraHELL Usa UK benefited a lot from Iran problems with the virus, specially if that rogue criminal nations continues their personal war to Iran.
    Why the whole world don’t do nothing (excluded China, RUssia and few other allies of that great nation) ?
    A world as this deserve to be crushed by a far more mortal disease, starting from some cited very bad criminal rogue deceptive nations which we know very well who are

  445. FLgeezer says:
    @Sean

    >What could possibly be in it for Israel?

    Trillions of dollars for having shorted stock markets the world over.

    • Replies: @Sean
    , @Trinity
  446. Turk 152 says:

    Framing the discussion in terms of the actions of countries completely distorts the discussion and does more harm than good in finding the culprits. This is not Donald Trump or even Mike Pompeo, Xi Jinping, or even dare I say, Benjamin Netanyahu. These are the acts of their enemies, but that certainly does not make whoever these villans are, our friends.

  447. blog.nomorefakenews.com :”Coronavirus : what real science would look like,if it existed ” By Jon Rapport :
    “…How many cases are there? How many people are [actually] infected ? And the answer to that comes from tests , diagnostic tests …people are labeled as [Coronavirus] cases without tests , I have explained that nonsense in other articles.Outside of China , the most widely used test is the PCR, IT MUST BE DONE WITH TREMENDOUS CARE…I see no evidence that the accuracy of this test has ever been proven…Trace all the implications …If you are the political leader of a nation with a 1000 cases of the “reported Coronavirus” , are you going to lock it down [based on an unproven test]?…Think it through …Don’t jump on the fear bandwagon.Don’t jump on the “scientific” b.s. bandwagon.”
    It’s very likely that there’s a lot of bad science and studies referenced in the comments to Philip Giraldi’s article and that they are likely contaminated by the biases and the conflicts of interests of the researchers and scientists involved .Former employees of both WHO and the CDC have complained about corruption in these organizations and in “Virus fraud – Vaccine treason “phibetaiota.net the author argues that :
    “At some point the CDC needs to be accused of treason, not only fraud.Most viruses appear to be a
    hoax and most vaccines appear to be a threat to public health.”

  448. Sean says:
    @FLgeezer

    More dead in Italy than Iran.

  449. @A123

    For you to say “not possible” is very obtuse. Not everyone gets symptoms or shows symptoms. Many healthy people with functioning immune systems just recover from COVID19 without feeling any bit ill. Military personal are young and not senior citizens. It is very easy to infect a healthy young adult and have him/her be a carrier.

  450. annamaria says:
    @Sean

    “Russia ended up fighting in Georgia, and is still at war with Ukraine, 490 kilometres from Moscow.”

    — And who has started the war in Georgia? Certain Saakashvili, a protege of McCain. https://www.history.com/news/russia-georgia-war-military-nato

    In early August 2008, after Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili sent troops into the rebellious province of South Ossetia, Russia came to its defense, beginning a five-day-long conflict that ended with Russian troops within striking distance of Tbilisi, the Georgian capital. …

    After Russia called a halt to its advance into Georgia, a cease-fire on August 12 ended the Russia-Georgia War. According to an official EU fact-finding report in 2009, nearly 850 people were killed during the five-day conflict, while some 35,000 Georgians were left homeless.

    Still much better than the US victorious Wars for Israel in the Middle East where whole states have been destroyed and 2 million people (including thousands and thousands of children) lost their lives to ensure the success of the sub-human Oded Yinon plan for Eretz Israel.

    As for unlucky Ukraine that had become the poorest European country since the putsch organized by the CIA/State Dept. in 2014, the bloodbath in eastern Ukraine is the crowning achievement of the pro-Nazi ziocons: https://consortiumnews.com/2015/07/13/the-mess-that-nuland-made/

    To sell this latest neocon-driven “regime change” to the American people, the ugliness of the coup-makers had to be systematically airbrushed, particularly the key role of neo-Nazis and other ultra-nationalists from the Right Sektor. For the U.S.-organized propaganda campaign to work, the coup-makers had to wear white hats, not brown shirts.

    So, for nearly a year and a half, the West’s mainstream media, especially The New York Times and The Washington Post, twisted their reporting into all kinds of contortions to avoid telling their readers that the new regime in Kiev was permeated by and dependent on neo-Nazi fighters and Ukrainian ultra-nationalists who wanted a pure-blood Ukraine, without ethnic Russians.

    And where is the ADL, made of the self-proclaimed warriors against “nazis? – The ADL has been standing firmly with the Banderites.
    https://www.globalresearch.ca/ukraines-neo-nazis-stepan-bandera-and-the-legacy-of-world-war-ii/5373773
    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-adl-in-american-society/

  451. JosephB says:
    @Stochastic Determinist

    Did I glitch the math?
    ““p[its an enemy action from USA] = 99.999999%””

    –> p=0.99999999 –> p/(1-p) = 99,999,999, which are the odds I quoted.

    I suppose later when I removed a decimal point, and then cut the implied odds in half I should have written 4,999,999.5 rather than rounding to an even 5 million.

    Or was there a higher-level conceptual mistake?

  452. JosephB says:
    @Turk 152

    Interesting. This scenario is more plausible than blaming the US or Israel. Set a plan in motion to tank the markets and go short at least has the benefit that the actors have some benefit.

    I’m still waiting for the “blame the US” crowd to explain how, exactly, the US is coming out ahead.

    • Replies: @Turk 152
    , @Wizard of Oz
  453. CanSpeccy says:
    @Sean

    You could not get a grant to do it after there were widespread concerns over a so called gain of function experiments in the US and in Holland in 2011.

    That’s why there are biowarfare research labs such as Ft Detrick where research of that kind is conducted in secret.

    No, as with any other organism or living thing a nation state must not only be efficient enough to survive in a certain environment, it must win competition with others of its kind.

    To equate a nation with an organism is a very Jewish point of view, and quite misleading. The Mongols conquered China, but the Chinese lived on, and soon perhaps China will conquer America, but Americans will most likely live on.

    All that happens when you withdraw as Russia did from Eastern Europe is another power is drawn in.

    Then the Poles and Hungarians and all the others in Eastern Europe learn to hate Americans instead of Russians. Hardly a benefit to the US.

    The US could retreat to within its own borders, resurrect its formerly excellent meritocratic educational system, close its border to most materials, goods and migrants and build up both its manufacturing base and arsenal of defensive weapons as Russia has done.

    Why, then, would anyone touch them?

    Most people and most foreign governments would be thankful to have the Americans off their backs and would be inclined to follow their example of independence and neutrality — like Switzerland and Sweden, both neutral during both the wars and the better for it.

    • Agree: annamaria
  454. Turk 152 says:
    @JosephB

    A large state actor would need to be both insane and stupid. Whatever Bibi is, he is not stupid. That pretty much leaves MbS, but he is on a tight leash.

  455. awry says:

    ATM it looks like the epidemic will ravage the West much worse than China, who was able to contain it for now. Not sure about the US but it looks like they handled it quite incompenently until now, and the virus is spreading there. Israel will be maybe relatively unscathed, as they are able and willing to take the necessary measures in time.
    So the conspiracy theory about this being a part of the trade war against the Chinese and that it was released to prevent China from overtaking the US does not hold water. It certainly does not look “engineered to racially target East Asians” either.
    It may be the result of an inadvertent leak from the Wuhan lab, perhaps the product of some gain of function tinkering, but only the Chinese leadership can know for sure if it is so. If that is true, then the it’s sure as hell that culprits and witnesses of the leak are all dead now.

    • Disagree: GazaPlanet
  456. mike99588 says:

    Sonuvabitch,
    Turns out the Chinese have been using two generic antiviral treatments successfully:
    500 mg chloroquinine twice/day + zinc supplement, and
    IV vitamin C, 1 gram/hour for 7 days (a little low and slow but 100% better than our mainstream medicine)
    Chloroquinine is a cheap drug in asia.

    South Korea, went one (less is) better on the Chinese and use
    one 500 mg chloroquinine + zinc supplement to treat Covid19
    turns out that chloroquinine is an ionophore for zinc, that carries zinc from outside the cell to the inside, into the cytosol
    see “Coronavirus epidemic update 34: US Cases Surge, Chloroquine & Zinc Treatment Combo, Italy Lockdown” and prior update nos. 32, 33

  457. Herald says:
    @Anon

    Sean’s ziocon cover was blown a long time ago, but it’s always well worth repeating.

    When you see the likes of the arch zios like A123, Lot and Sean hurriedly getting into top gear, you know that the article writer will have been hovering way too near the truth for their comfort.

    Giraldi always has these blowflies buzzing.

  458. Coronavirus epidemics is an excellent illustration for the saying that you don’t need conspiracy theories, as human stupidity is sufficient to explain things.

    It does not matter whether it was made on purpose or just appeared naturally. It is clear that the US will suffer much more than China. In the last few days major US universities ordered their undergrads to go home.

    If you want to reduce the spread of the epidemics, you’d want everybody to stay right where they are. If you want to ensure maximum spread, you’d order tens of thousands of students to go home from where they are to various places in the country. That’s exactly what the universities did. In Stalin’s times, this would have been called an act of sabotage, and those responsible would have been shot as saboteurs. However, in a lawsuit culture this action is perfectly rational: the universities aren’t going to be sued by the country, they can be sued by the relatives of individual students. Now they cannot be accused of doing nothing: they did something. Who cares that this something happened to be the most idiotic thing imaginable and will damage the country a lot. Chinese do not have this incentive to do the stupidest thing one can think of, so it is much better prepared to handle coronavirus and minimize its spread. That’s exactly what Chinese authorities are doing. Unlike authorities in the US.

    • Agree: Chinaman, Ron Unz
    • Replies: @Chinaman
    , @UK
    , @Ron Unz
    , @d dan
  459. @Alfred

    10 times? You need to go higher. I know several who made close to 40 times in just the last two weeks of shorting.

    But it is a gamble, as they don’t have insider information.

    Now imagine the ones who do have insider information?

    This is like a fucking harvest.

    And they will make more money as the rebound happens.

  460. Given the global hysteria this has engendered, it’s likely this article’s premise is flawed: it’s not whether China OR the US engineered and released a bio weapon, but rather whether they are coordinating the release.

  461. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:
    @Cratylus

    The US has the resources to combat the epidemic, far and above what China has, given the relative sizes of the population

    In RELATIVE terms, on a per-person basis, yes America has more resources.

    In ABSOLUTE terms, given that China is a manufacturing powerhouse and can produce whatever equipment they need at scale, China definitely has considerably greater capacity to respond to the pandemic.

    Since they were also able to lockdown the virus epicenter, they can indeed spare some capacity for Iraq and other places.

    For Iraq, and the outside world watching, it just confirms that it doesn’t pay to be “annexed” by the “America Empire”. When push comes to shove, you are on your own.

  462. FLgeezer says:

    Further evidence that (((they))) created it:
    -Our media talks about nothing but coronavirus. And who
    owns our media?
    -Gilead Sciences claims to have a cure. They began
    promulgating it a week ago in the WSJ.
    -What more certain way is there to get rid of Trump
    than by crashing the economy? Regardless of what
    we hapless goy do for them is never enough. (((They)))
    are heartless people that regard us as two legged
    animals. Or in the case of Coronavirus, as lab rats.

    • Agree: Desert Fox
    • Replies: @FLgeezer
  463. denk says:
    @JosephB

    I thought the mod deleted your silly post,
    hehehe
    ——————

    Bob sez

    CCP, US deep state, ‘SORO type’ are equally likely perpetrators

    I’ve proven him wrong …with pr formulation,

    . I’m not asserting a particular probability, merely that yours is off by several orders of magnitude.

    So what should it be, 99.999999, 99.99999, 99.99 ,99.9………. ?
    show me your calculation.

    put up or shut up

    • Troll: JosephB
    • Replies: @denk
  464. Oh hell, why worry? Live like a hikikomori! The hikikomori will have no problems surviving this virus. They were made for this, living in total self-isolation as they do – as long as there is someone leaving their meals outside their door. Perhaps their lifestyle is the future for would be urban survivalists of plagues to come.

    • Replies: @Maowasayali
  465. Florence says:

    ”CIA-NATO Gladio agent Vincezo Vinciguerra explained the Operation Gladio “strategy of tension” in sworn testimony.

    He said:

    “You had to attack civilians, the people, women, children, innocent people, unknown people far removed from any political game … to force the Italian public, to turn to the state to ask for greater security.”

    NATO’s secret armies linked to terror”

    http://aanirfan.blogspot.com/

    • Agree: Turk 152
    • Replies: @Desert Fox
  466. Andree says:

    INFURIATING!!

    30,000 U.S. Soldiers Sent into Europe Without Masks

    The United States has raised the coronavirus (COVID-19) alert for Italy to level 3 (“avoid nonessential travel”), bringing it to 4 (“do not travel”) for [the northern regions of] Lombardy and Veneto — the same as for China. […]

    However, one category of U.S. citizens is exempted from these rules: the 20,000 soldiers beginning to arrive from the United States in European ports and airports for the Defender Europe 20 exercise, the largest U.S. troop deployment in Europe in the last 25 years

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/30000-u-s-soldiers-sent-into-europe-without-masks/5706084

  467. @Florence

    Agree, the release of the bioweapon coronavirus is Operation Gladio in action.

  468. Robjil says:

    Italy did not join in the ISIS game.

    It is well known that the alert to the danger of jihadist terrorism is still high across Europe. The threat is very serious and real, as demonstrated by several terrorist attacks between 2015 and 2019 in Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Spain, Sweden, the Netherlands and the United Kingdom. As far as Italy is concerned, two elements have to be taken into account. First, it is true that Italy has managed to remain free of a successful jihadist terrorist attack, but investigations and counter-terrorism operations have revealed a strong presence in our national territory of terrorist activities of different kinds from support to attempted attacks. Second, Italy remains a country at risk of violent radicalization, a risk that is constantly evolving, however, so far its success in counter-terrorism is probably due to the combination of considerable and long anti-terrorism experience, its anti-terrorism legislation, the crucial role of CASA and a different social situation as compared to other European countries.

    What is CASA?

    [MORE]

    This long and considerable experience helped develop the Antiterrorism Strategic
    Analysis Committee (CASA), that is a common platform where Italian security forces (Police, Carabinieri, Guardia di Finanza, Penitentiary Police and intelligence agencies) share information about terrorist groups, intelligence, people, and threats. In 2017 alone, thanks to CASA’s activities, 26 people with links to jihadism were arrested and 105 were expelled. CASA is also responsible for the intelligence gathered while monitoring of Islamist websites.

    The reason that Italy was spared the ISIS games, is that Italians are very aware of what of the Operation Gladios games from USisrael and NATO during the 1960s- 1980s. This coronavirus was attack on Italians for being friendly with China and not playing any ISIS or other false flag games for USisrael. Here is what a real free press does. It researches a crime like the Operation Gladio games without fear of USisrael/NATO. That was in 1984. These days most of the world lives in total fear of the USisrael empire.

    http://www.zro.pt/strategy-of-tension

    The scandal originally came to light in Italy in 1984 when an Italian judge Felice Casson reopened the case of a terrorist car bomb in Peteano in 1972 and uncovered a series of anomalies in the original investigation. The atrocity which had originally been blamed on the communist Red Brigades turned out to be, in fact, the work of a right wing organization called Ordine Nuovo. Following the discovery of an arms cache near Trieste in 1972 containing C4 explosives identical to that used in the Peteano attack, Casson’s investigation revealed that the bombing in Peteano was the work of the military secret service SID (Servizio Informazioni Difesa) in conjunction with Ordine Nuovo. The intention had been to blame the bombing on the extreme left wing militant outfit, the Red Brigades. The right wing terrorist, Vincenzo Vinciguerra was arrested and charged and confessed to planting the bomb.

    • Replies: @denk
  469. @Bert

    OK, so why do bats carry so many viruses?

  470. @Commentator Mike

    And if Hikikomori gets lonely, he can get a hologram girlfriend… welcome to the NWO!

  471. Defense One is smearing Philip Giraldi as a “conspiracy monger” who works for Russia.

    Patrick Tucker said, “another piece of PressTV’s COVID-19-as-bioweapon coverage cites Philip Giraldi, a former CIA officer and conspiracy monger writing for the Moscow-backed Strategic Culture Foundation. Giraldi’s evidence that the United States, and not China, is the source of the virus? There are some regions of China with more bats than Wuhan, he argues, but somehow those regions have fewer cases of COVID-19.”
    https://www.defenseone.com/technology/2020/03/iran-and-russian-media-push-bioweapon-conspiracies-amid-covid19-outbreak/163669/

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  472. Unit 731 says:

    We’ve been through this with JFK, RFK, MLK, and dozen of domestic murders, OKC, Boston Marathon, WTC the first time, and WTC the second time. As a result, the conspiracy theory magic words don’t work, and the world is quickly compiling the bill of indictment for this crime. As soon as COVID-19 is attributed to the US government (and that won’t take long,)

    it raises questions.

    What is this unprecedented crime? It’s a breach of Articles I, II, and III of the Biological Weapons Convention, a US commitment executed in criminal law. It’s a breach of the 1925 Geneva Convention, jus cogens as international humanitarian law.

    But this crime goes beyond anything envisioned in those instruments. What kind of sick fuck infects the whole world? How do we make sure nulla poena sine lege doesn’t apply? The virus spread from the US shortly after a CDC suspension imposed on Fort Detrick. This will turn out to be a fallback position upon authoritative attribution, a sheepish, Oops! to evade criminal responsibility.

    When we catch these CIA mad scientists – and China will – What do we do with them? It’s as if Doktor Mengele was sewing us all together in twosies like gypsy twins. This is a historic, unprecedented crime against humanity and we’ve got to make these sick fucks and their bosses’ bosses’ pay so nobody ever dares do this again. It’s going to take a war, but it’s also going to take a Tribunal révolutionnaire. The US regime that failed to protect us from this crime has got to be destroyed.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  473. Hugo N. says:

    Larry Romanoff: COVID-19: Further Evidence that the Virus Originated in the US

    ”And it may therefore be true that the original source of the COVID-19 virus was the US military bio-warfare lab at Fort Detrick. This would not be a surprise, given that the CDC completely shut down Fort Detrick, but also because, as I related in an earlier article, between 2005 and 2012 the US had experienced 1,059 events where pathogens had been either stolen or escaped from American bio-labs during the prior ten years – an average of one every three days.”

    From:

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/covid-19-further-evidence-virus-originated-us/5706078

  474. Herald says:
    @Neo

    What sources are there to confirm the presence of US military personnel in the Wuhan province just prior to the outbreak? I’ve tried looking for something on my own to no avail.

    It seems quite strange that somehow you were looking in all the wrong places.

    • LOL: denk
  475. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Johnny F. Ive

    Defense One is smearing Philip Giraldi as a “conspiracy monger” who works for Russia.

    Patrick Tucker said, “another piece of PressTV’s COVID-19-as-bioweapon coverage cites Philip Giraldi, a former CIA officer and conspiracy monger writing for the Moscow-backed Strategic Culture Foundation. Giraldi’s evidence that the United States, and not China, is the source of the virus? There are some regions of China with more bats than Wuhan, he argues, but somehow those regions have fewer cases of COVID-19.”

    Well, at least that bit’s accurate: cf. the first paragraph of the above article.

    The most commonly reported mainstream media account of the creation of the Coronavirus suggests that it was derived from an animal borne microorganism found in a wild bat that was consumed by an ethnic Chinese resident of Wuhan. But there appears to be some evidence to dispute that in that adjacent provinces in China, where wild bats are more numerous, have not experienced major outbreaks of the disease.

    Can’t say if Giraldi works for the Russians. But other arguments that Giraldi and his defenders present here in support of the notion that the bat flu is an American biowarfare agent loosed with malicious intent upon China, are about as absurd as the one that Defence One cites.

  476. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Unit 731

    mm

    As soon as COVID-19 is attributed to the US government (and that won’t take long,)

    Which is as clear an admission as one will find at the Unz Review that there is currently no evidence to attribute COVID19 to the US Government.

  477. Diana says:

    DARPA (designed the Internet to control you, btw):

    ‘the Pentagon’s Defense Threat Reduction Agency (DTRA) has funded a number of military projects performed at the UK Defence Science and Technology Laboratory (DSTL), or Porton Down, over the last decade.

    Among them: experimental respiratory infection of non-human primates (marmosets) with
    Anthrax,
    Ebola virus,
    Marburg virus,
    Venezuelan equine encephalitis virus,
    Western equine encephalitis virus,
    and Eastern equine encephalitis virus.

    The US Defense Threat Reduction Agency (DTRA) has also funded experiments on animals which were exposed to chemical agents such as Sulfur Mustard and Phosgene gas. Phosgene gas was used as a chemical weapon during World War I where it was responsible for about 85 % of the 100,000 deaths caused by chemical weapons.”

    Asked why the information about the US military bio-laboratories in 25 countries bordering on Russia, China and Iran (the Pentagon’s main rivals) is classified, Kadlec responded: “They are not classified, they are openly available to anyone who wants to look at them.”

    Porton Down is just one of the Pentagon-funded military laboratories in 25 countries across the world, where the US Army produces and tests man-made viruses, bacteria and toxins in direct violation of the UN convention. These US bio-laboratories are funded by the Defense Threat Reduction Agency (DTRA) under a $ 2.1 billion military program– Cooperative Biological Engagement Program (CBEP), and are located in former Soviet Union countries such as Georgia and Ukraine, the Middle East, South East Asia and Africa.”

    Salisbury Nerve Agent Attack Reveals $70 Million Pentagon Program at Porton Down

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/salisbury-nerve-agent-attack-reveals-70-million-pentagon-program-at-porton-down/5636361

  478. @JosephB

    You raise the spectre of non-state actors in future keeping a lid on bull markets as the usual media bears will be quick to remind everyone that the markets are getting to the point where the latest version of Nigerian scammer plants a virus that will make everyone fear another 2020 style crash.

  479. Truth says:

    Scientists from Wuhan lab catching bats. And being worried about bat viruses…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovnUyTRMERI&feature=youtu.be

  480. denk says:
    @denk

    josephb

    so many folks are throwing around probability in this thread without having the slightest clue what it means, or how one would go about computing it

    I did.

    To recap..

    Pr [its an enemy action from US/
    giVEN swine flu+bird flu+army worm+
    CNY+Wuhan a major traffic hub+Wuhan happens to have a BSL4 lab+ trade war+ Xinjiang+SCS+TW+US is up to its eyeballs in biowarfare research+US has attacked
    China many times ..including bioweapon…]
    = PRACTICALLY ONE.

    From your admonition aBove you seem to know more about prob theory.
    Im aLways open to learning from the
    more enlightened.

    Show us your calculaton.

  481. denk says:
    @Robjil

    Yes,

    Besides,
    Italy was the first euro to join the BRI

    They also do not welcome swamp thing into their midst….

    https://ahtribune.com/world/europe/3880-italy-to-kick-out-steve-bannon.html

    • Thanks: Robjil
  482. Chinaman says:
    @AnonFromTN

    This is a brilliant observation. It goes completely against the concept of a Lockdown.

    There are many reasons why most of the social institutions that mankind have invented are inherently authoritarian.( churches, military, schools etc)

    It is an effective structure that get things done. The stark contrast between the success with which China and the West contain the virus shows the merits of authoritarian government vs democracy. The toxic combination of the waywardness of man and glorification of individual rights guarantees that that society suffers as a whole.

    I think it will take more than a coronavirus and a death of a few hundred thousand for the west to wake up from this madness.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  483. PROBLEM- A Worldwide epidemic blamed on a variant of the flu called the Coronavirus , hyped daily by the massmedia (propaganda)which is owned by six corporations controlling at least 90% or more of the market and which has links to the Federal Reserve, the Council on Foreign Relations and Wall Street.
    REACTION-Politicians and the public scared by the “fear porn” generated by the media demand action , people in fear of their lives will willingly give up their freedoms . Pharmaceutical companies demand money for research and development for the production of a vaccine ,for test kits and medical supplies.
    SOLUTION- The governments of the World impose trestrictions on travel and assembly,increase surveillance , enforce
    quarantines , propose mandatory vaccinations , destroy “infected” currency and discuss the need for cashless societies, in the US the Federal government passes legislation authorizing the spending of $8.3 billion dollars , the bulk of which will go to the pharmaceutical industrial complex (PIC) and the WHO and CDC which have been labeled corrupt by former employees and which own patents on vaccines . Cui bono?
    It’s the same modus operandi used by the perpetrators of 9/11 .

  484. UK says:
    @AnonFromTN

    I’m sure Americans are crying out for you and your political ilk to save them from American living standards and life expectancies and give them the amazing equivalents from Stalinist Russia…

    What a clown.

  485. Excellent article on “Understanding the Hegelian Dialectic – Problem-Reaction-Solution “ jeremiahproject.com :
    “The Hegelian dialectic applied to COVID-19 …’Coronavirus -the cures will be worse than the disease ‘ James Corbett points out in this article that a bioweapon attack( whether real or man-made , false flag or otherwise ) is the perfect cover for a slew of items on the Globalist checklist.And the more the population panics the more they play into the Globalist’s hands.”

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  486. @UK

    Exactly. Team Russia is every bit as moronic as Team USA. Neither one seems to grasp that capitalism and socialism are partners in crime, capitalism’s Dr Jekyll to socialism’s Mr Hyde.

    Speaking of the other team of retards (Team China), the only source of information (breathlessly repeated by the Western oligarchs media) about China’s “wise and strong” handling of the situation (the wave of the future, just ask chicken hawks like Godfrey Roberts) comes from the capitalists in the CCP, who are about as trustworthy as the USG.

  487. @9/11 Inside job

    Yes, but the issue is, what variety of globalism? Probably not the one-world nightmare advocated by liberals (that’s one bright spot, I suppose) but rather a multi-polar system, akin to what Orwell prophetically described in 1984. Likely the US and China are coordinating all of this to provide cover for dissociation of the two economies, which is necessary for multi-polarity.

  488. anaccount says:

    Despite half of our economy being cancelled, I can confirm that Drag Queen Story Hour is still scheduled at all of its locations – countrywide.

    #priorities

  489. Turk 152 says:
    @UK

    Let me guess, you dont have kids in college that are coming next week and dont give 2 cents about a stupid virus or precautions.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  490. @UK

    Severe dyslexia? My condolences.

    FYI, in there are 237 words in that comment, “Stalin” being only one of them. Please ask someone w/o dyslexia to read it to you, in case you are interested despite your condition.

    • Replies: @UK
  491. @Turk 152

    Sensible precautions aside, if you can’t see by now that this is a stage-managed farce (Tom Hanks, really? LOL George Clooney must have asked for too much money), your problems go beyond a bad case of the flu.

    • Agree: 9/11 Inside job
    • Replies: @Turk 152
  492. @Chinaman

    It’s not even democracy that’s at fault. In fact, if we define democracy as the influence of common people on government decisions, there is likely more democracy in China than in the US.

    What is really hurting the US is the lawsuit culture. The result is, covering your ass legally takes precedence over sensible actions. The universities want to prevent anyone from suing them, so they do what is best for that, in the process facilitating the spread of the epidemic. They don’t care about that reality, as the consequences for them are farther removed: virtually all business people (and that’s the people running the show) suffer from severe myopia. Boeing 737Max is a relatively fresh example of that. Merck’s Vioxx is the previous widely known one.

  493. @Turk 152

    Old enough to recognize bullshit when I see it.

    • Replies: @Turk 152
  494. Turk 152 says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Yeah, as I said, all the kids think this is BS because it doesn’t impact them.

    Trump seemed quite nervous in yesterday’s speech, I wonder if it had anything to do with the Brazilian minister who he just met who tested positive for Covid. It might finally be dawning on the Germaphobe in Chief, that there is no way for him to quarantine himself and he is a fatass in his 70s.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  495. @Turk 152

    Maybe. It was also said that he (and his generals) looked scared in the aftermath of those Iranian missile strikes on the US base in Iraq, but it should be clear by now that this was all a choreographed charade. Most likely the Corona response is as well, although doubtless the virus itself is real enough.

    Re. my age, I could be 10 or 100, I would always take precautions as appropriate to the situation, this is no different. That has jack shit to do with whether this is manufactured hysteria or not.

  496. Ron Unz says:
    @AnonFromTN

    It does not matter whether it was made on purpose or just appeared naturally. It is clear that the US will suffer much more than China.

    Well, the outbreak may or may not have been an American biowarfare attack against China (and Iran).

    But I think the evidence of the last couple of weeks proves that there is a 0% chance that Trump himself was aware of the plot. In some ways, Trump reminds me of “W”…

    • Agree: Turk 152
    • Disagree: GazaPlanet
    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @CanSpeccy
    , @Bob
  497. Turk 152 says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    I had not heard that Trump looked scared during the Iran missile strike, so I can’t comment; he seemed to have backed down but more out of a calculus than fear.

    Everyone sees the world from their own eyes.

  498. phatmaus says:
    @Sean

    Foreign Theater First Use for the US in that scenario means use against the Chinese mainland, i.e. strategic use from a Chinese perspective, because that’s where most of the military assets are based. If the US nuked the Chinese mainland, responding in kind by nuking e.g. San Diego along with it’s naval base, would be a response in kind and not an escalation.

    Let’s just hope that MAD continues to hold, so that the nukes continue to not be used.

  499. @Ron Unz

    In some ways, Trump reminds me of “W”…

    You mean, too dumb to know anything or to understand what he knows? Trump is likely limited intellectually, but he appears to have more street smarts than W. Then again, he did not inherit huge wealth from his daddy, he had to weasel his way into it himself.

  500. @Beefcake the Mighty

    Agree, it’s a “choreographed charade”, the virus is probably just the seasonal flu re-named Coronavirus for propaganda purposes , the reported number of cases of infections and deaths resulting fromCOVID-19 are lies.As I have commented ad nauseam they presently have no accurate or reliable test in the field to determine whether or not anyone has succumbed to the virus. Russ Winter has a great article at Winter Watch in which he explains why Tom Hanks allegedly has been infected with the Coronavirus, see :”STEP 1 : Coronavirus panic,STEP 2 : Loss of liberty and depression “ winterwatch.net :
    Russ Winter: “My February 29,2020 post on COVID-19 was spot on in numerous respects …One of my remarks was look for a big celebrity who’s active on Twitter to come down sick to help trigger a panic among the plebs . And now, lo and behold Tom Hanks and his wife have announced that they have come down with the Coronavirus . Has to be Oprah next [or George Clooney!] ?…The Uk’s health Minister caught the virus! Really? What are the odds?”

    • Replies: @Desert Fox
    , @Iris
  501. UK says:
    @AnonFromTN

    I captured the core meaning of your disingenuous post by wiping away all of the empty rhetoric. You sense this, hence your ad hominem response.

    I get it. You want people to believe that America is bad and perhaps China is good, in order to push your personal political ideology.

    You are unable to rely on anything more than the weakest of empirical arguments because your ideology is an outgrowth of your own internal mental difficulties.

    It is an Unzian version of concentric circles of loyalties jumping and a particularly stupid one. if you can’t recognise that America is currently a much more successful society than China then you need to get a grip.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @Nonny Mouse
  502. @UK

    There is such a thing as dynamics. The US vector is pointing down. The Chinese vector is pointing up. Using your words, “if you can’t recognize that, you need to get a grip”.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
    , @UK
  503. @AnonFromTN

    What direction is Tennessee’s vector?

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  504. @Beefcake the Mighty

    Flat to downward. Better than California vector, but that’s nothing to write home about.

  505. UK says:
    @AnonFromTN

    The US’s trend isn’t actually down, though certainly China’s is up.

    Nonetheless, simply relying upon trends for predictions of something as complex as power dynamics and societal success is really stupid.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  506. @Beefcake the Mighty

    Choreographed charade. Really? LOL 😆

    All the images of the coronavirus in the MSM, including the one used to headline this article, are Computer Generated Images (CGI). In other words, it’s all fake!

    Furthermore, the image used for this article is 100% Masonic. First of all, the color of the coronavirus is not red–is this a shout out to the Red Shields aka the Rothschilds?

    [MORE]

    Secondly, the 5 central “spikes” in the middle of the CGI coronavirus are lined up as to create the letter “X” or (2 “Vs”; one of which is upside down).  “V” is the sixth letter of the Hebrew alphabet and is one of their most holy numbers. “X” is also Masonic shorthand for  “as above, so below” which is arguably what the Star of David symbolizes. 

    Vav represents the number 6 and represents the six days of the creation of the world, as well as the six physical dimensions (right left, front and back, up and down). The Vav is also representative of the male phallus, the fertilizing agent, bringing life, abundance, continuity, and addition. — Walking Kabbalah

    In the past 2 months, I have counted at least 33 times in which their MSM novel coronavirus stories have contained the number “33”. For example, the person who was either infected or died from Covid-19 was aged 33! The most notable was the Chinese doctor-cum-whistle blower Dr. Li Wenliang who is now being hailed by their MSM as a hero.

    What are the odds of all those “33s” popping up in the MSM news if Covid-19 is real and spontaneous and not scripted news?

    Our Jewish Oligarchs use symbols to rule over us. They communicate to each other via numbers and the words they use in the headlines in the MSM are coded numerically based on Jewish gematria and I have already argued that “Covid-19” is another “9/11” or Tisha B’Av Ritual.

  507. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Ron Unz

    Well, the outbreak may or may not have been an American biowarfare attack against China (and Iran).

    But I think the evidence of the last couple of weeks proves that there is a 0% chance that Trump himself was aware of the plot

    I find that puzzling. What is the evidence of the last couple of weeks that “proves that there is a 0% chance that Trump himself was aware of the plot.”

    But it is also interesting if credible, since it suggests a reason for the virulent Trump hatred of so many iin Congress, the bureaucracy or Deep State, and among the brainwashed public: namely, that Trump unlike other Presidents since Kennedy have all followed a script provided for them by the permanent government, i.e., the bureaucracy.

    That pattern was set by Eisenhower, who so I have read, expected every decision to be presented to him as a statement of the issue and a list of options, all confined to a single page. The President would then tick an option, A, B, or C, etc., which meant that by artful statement of the problem and careful selection of the options, all power would have been in the hands of the officials.

    Of later presidents, George H.W. Bush, a former Director of the CIA would have understood the system and played by the accepted rules. Clinton, though he had ideas of his own, knuckled under when warned that his second term depended on it. As for Dubya, it’s hard to believe he’d have taken the trouble to inform himself well enough to make an independent decision on anything, and Obama was such a leftie that his ideas and those of the bureaucracy would generally have matched perfectly. But Trump, clearly is an ideas man and hence a threat to the whole system. So yes, deploying a biowarfare agent without notifying the President, especially if it would make trouble for him, could well have made sense to some in the Deep State.

    • Replies: @Turk 152
  508. Turk 152 says:
    @CanSpeccy

    Of course, the entire purpose of the intelligence agencies is to control the narrative or the question. Trump vs Biden, Coke or Pepsi, the choice is yours!

    • Agree: Beefcake the Mighty
    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  509. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Turk 152

    Of course, the entire purpose of the intelligence agencies is to control the narrative or the question.

    Meaning all the more reason for pushing a demented Biden over a more or less sane Trump.

  510. Katia says:

    The ANGLO-AMERICAN banks needed a big GLADIO op to make the USD crash.

    The ANGLO-AMERICAN banks want to re-engineer the dollar, using:

    – China’s currency

    – the IMF (Europe and ”Latin” America).

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  511. Zorba says:

    US will be isolated from the European Union. The European Union will have to business with Canada and Latin America. The United Kingdom will be the chef d’orchestre.

    ”The new travel restrictions temporarily bar foreign nationals starting Friday from traveling to the US from Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, the Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, and Switzerland.

    The European travel ban does not extend to US citizens, legal permanent residents, or immediate family members of US citizens.”

    http://aanirfan.blogspot.com/2020/01/coronavirus.html

  512. @Katia

    Sort of. I think they (meaning the realist faction of the oligarchs, as opposed to the demented globalists) want to return to something like a phony gold standard (really a gold exchange standard), based on regional currencies, namely the dollar, renminbi, and ruble/euro.

  513. @9/11 Inside job

    Agree completely, the zionist controlled ZUS going full police state on terrorized Americans.

  514. Scranton calling geokat!

    Did you see the reflection below by a Toronto-based Infectious Disease Specialist?

    My fellow “Homelanders” shall never get reflections like this from the Blue & White House’s Diseased Crowned Specialist 1, Pence.

    https://talbotspy.org/letter-from-toronto-an-infectious-diseases-specialist-reflects-on-corvid-19/

    • Replies: @geokat62
    , @Alfred
  515. anonymous[408] • Disclaimer says:

    boy, the writer is really idiotic to compare stuxnet to covid-19. stuxnet was designed to harm Irans ability to enrich uranium, so that they cannot develop an atomic bomb. to say that since the US was willing to unleash stuxnet, it might also be willing top unleash covid-19, is quite a stretch.

  516. anarchyst says:

    Obtain the movie “V For Vendetta

    Although the movie is fantasy it makes some good points. A “virus” is released into the general population.

    Many people die.

    And then miraculously the company comes up with an “antidote for the (government created) “virus”.

    The antidote manufacturer makes millions.

    The government achieves total control by martial law, forced relocations, and just playing on peoples’ fears to achieve their aims.

    • Thanks: ChuckOrloski
  517. @UK

    I need to get a grip. Please help me. Show me that America is a much more successful society than China. Has more military bases around the world? Quicker than China to respond to C2V which it knew was coming but China did not? Please educate me.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
    , @UK
  518. @Nonny Mouse

    How do you know that China responded to the virus so well? Because they said so?

  519. @Beefcake the Mighty

    Unless they had died and were not subsequently incinerated, early carriers of the cor