Indeed depressing to watch the Donald get co-opted. But if nothing else, DJT is capable of surprise. Almost anything can happen, for better and for worse. Fasten your safety belts and enjoy the ride, say I.

About Israel/Palestine, the so-called ‘two-state solution’ was faintly ridiculous even before the Israeli land grabs from 1967 onward. Let’s call it a day for that particular bit of political fantasy.

The obvious ‘solution’ now is to go the way of South Africa: one state for all, with Truth & Reconciliation commissions, a dispossessed and terrorized white minority on the run, the whole works. Should be fun.

Not to forget the wall with Mexico. The Israeli company Elbit won a huge contract for the younger Bush’s palisade:

https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/nora-barrows-friedman/israeli-arms-maker-wins-unprecedented-contract-us-mexico-border

Now Magal is liking its chops over Señor Trump’s supposed rampart:

http://www.haaretz.com/world-news/u-s-election-2016/1.753331

All the world a DMZ–all eruv, all the time, jeje.

Most of us are tired of the obnoxious jooies and their relentlessly self-serving scheming, both domestic and foreign. If they insist on murdering and pillaging the idiot arabs…….great. Just do it on their own nickel with their own crappy little army No problem……just leave the rest of us out of it.

Well, Señor Netayahu turned most of the Xian Fundamentalists and Evangelicals into Zionists, like the Reverend Hajee of the Megachurch in old San Antone. Zionist White Nationalists should be as much fun as a greased pig, eh?

By the way, Pence is one of the former, a dyed in the wool fundamentalist Christian Zionist.

At the time news reports said that Trump did not choose him, but some of his children did.

Wonder which?

Well, look at it this way, Señor Trump is going to stop all those messkin illegals from taking jobs aways from gut ole watt merkin werkin foke, thus creating a lot of contracts and jobs for–Israelis, jeje.

Suckers.

“immediately and completely cease all settlement activities in the occupied Palestinian territory, including east Jerusalem.”

Unfair folks. We have an exceptionalism, they said.

But David not. Humble. Honest.

I’m guessing Trump has a plan and Giraldi doesn’t know what it is. So he’s reading tea leaves and getting himself upset.

The obvious ‘solution’ now is to go the way of South Africa: one state for all, with Truth & Reconciliation commissions, a dispossessed and terrorized white minority on the run, the whole works. Should be fun.

Israel should put a tarp over Gaza and run a Zyklon-B hose to it. After that, American soldiers can scorch the earth of Jordan and Syria, and restore the Kingdom of Israel. That’s what God wants.

“”The pro-Israelis who produced the presidency of the dysfunctional George Bush to take us to war in Iraq also produced the presidency of narcissist Donald Trump—to take us to war in Iran. Were that not the case, the Trump transition would not be dominated by pro-Israeli right-wingers. Below I show how supporters of the Israeli Right delivered an Electoral College victory for a reality show host who likely remains unaware who is manipulating his self-absorbed needs on behalf of Tel Aviv.”

http://hiddentaxonhumanity.com/uncategorized/mel-rockefeller-commentary/mel-rockefeller-commentary/

“Pre-staging The Donald

Pro-Israelis inside the Trump Organization include general counsel Jason Greenblatt (a former settler), bankruptcy attorney David M. Friedman (a two-state solution skeptic), special counsel Michael Cohen and key family members, including son-in-law Kushner and his wife Ivanka Trump who converted to Orthodox Judaism. Israeli settlers were heartened by an interview that Greenblatt, lately described as a Trump “foreign policy adviser,” gave to Israel’s Army Radio after the election in which he said that Trump did not view the settlements as “an obstacle for peace.” That statement led to several celebratory announcements in Israel claiming “the era of the Palestinian state is over.”[8]

Greenblatt lived in a settlement in Israel. Post-election rumors speculated he could be appointed as Trump’s Middle East envoy though Kushner is also seen as qualified. Kushner is a real estate developer and Greenblatt a real estate attorney. Neither have diplomatic experience.

Israeli Ambassador Ron Dermer has repeatedly visited the transition team. An American who forfeited his U.S. citizenship to serve Israel, he’s a key Trump intermediary not only for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu but also Sheldon Adelson, the casino mogul who spends an estimated $50 million per year publishing for free Israel’s most widely read free newspaper (Israel Today). The paper is steadfastly supportive of Netanyahu and the Israeli Right.[9] Dermer arranged for Republican Congressional leaders to secretly invite Netanyahu to deliver a nationally televised speech on March 3, 2016 to a joint meeting of Congress in opposition to then ongoing negotiations on the Iran nuclear accord—that Trump now opposes.[10]

Six days after that speech, Arkansas Senator Tom Cotton sought to undermine negotiations by releasing a letter to Iranian leaders signed by 47 Republican Senators suggesting that any accord with Iran could be undone by the next president. The role played by Israel and its lobby was apparent. Those skeptical that a 37-year old freshman Senator would take this step on his own initiative noted that Cotton’s Senate campaign received nearly $1 million five months earlier from the Emergency Committee for Israel led by Jewish neoconservative William Kristol, co-founder of the Project for a New American Century established in 1997 to lobby for regime change in Iraq.[11]

In 2012, Dermer broke with long-standing diplomatic protocol to campaign for Mitt Romney, the Republican presidential candidate, an opponent of the Iran deal and, importantly, a Mormon.[12] Also known as the Lost Tribe of Israel, youth in this uniquely American version of Zionism are routinely recruited for employment in the F.B.I. and our intelligence services, an issue to which I will return.[13]

By stirring up the settlements issue, the Israel Right may well ignite another war-catalyzing intifada reminiscent of the Ariel Sharon-led march to the Al Aqsa Mosque (Temple Mount) in September 2000. That provocative armed march triggered the Second (Al Aqsa) Intifada one year prior to the war-catalyzing provocation of 9/11. Sharon organized that march after helping ensure the failure of international negotiations on a proposed agreement to designate Jerusalem an international city protected for use by adherents of all three faiths that consider the ancient city sacred.

Purposefully aggravating the settlements issue is also consistent with the influence wielded within the Republican Party by Mr. Adelson. He and his equally rightwing Israeli wife used their influence to ensure that any mention of the two-state solution was removed from the Republican Party platform. Democrats saw a similar scouring of their platform by the Israeli Right to ensure that the term “occupied territories” was stricken.

Adding to those provocations, the Knesset took up legislation allowing settlers to gain title to privately owned Palestinian land on which the settlers illegally built. As usual with rightwing pro-Israelis and their deployment of simultaneous provocations, multiple goals are routinely pursued at the same time. Senator Pat Leahy of Vermont summarized how:

“One of the most effective ways that ISIS and other terrorist groups have attracted recruits is by tarring the United States with Israel’s expanding occupation of the West Bank. This legislation to retroactively legalize illegal settlements will be welcomed by those murderous groups as further evidence that America’s closest ally in the region is bent on destroying a peaceful solution, including the possibility of a Palestinian state.”[14]”

It is funny how Unz.com’s large stable of Israel/Jew haters just can’t decide if Trump is on their side or not. (I think Giraldi is right, he’s not, and Saker is wrong.)

What Giraldi does not understand is that patriotic white people do not find it acceptable that the Holy Land be occupied by Muslim barbarians. It really is just that simple. It was the case 1000 years ago, and is still the case now.

Israel is America’s Crusader Kingdom, and Bibi is white America’s loyal viceroy.

on land stolen from Palestinians

It is Israel’s by right of conquest.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_conquest

And if you don’t believe in that right, I first urge to you deed your house over to the nearest Indian tribe, and second explain how the various Arabs who call themselves “Palestinians” got that land in the first place.

Trump’s son-in-law, and closest advisor, is a professional Jew. His presence probably guarantees that American boys will be dying in Israel’s wars for the next eight years.

Gullible = stupid

You don’t need to be psychopath to agree with this conclusive statement. And have real consequences.

I always think only Brazilian people who are very politically conformist but by now I’m perceiving other similarity between two countries/peoples, both are too much passive/pussy.

Tsk. Oh well, go ahead, heighten the contradictions, baby. Better a horrible end than horror without end…

Such is life in a nation–America–that is a colony of Apartheid Israel. All that free money and all those ‘surplus’ weapons they receive each year is a tribute from the occupied nation, the USA, to Apartheid Israel.

Israel and its American sayanim control the WH, Congress, State, and the FED and Treasury, making sure that Israel is completely in control of us GOYIM.

But don’t worry, watch football, baseball, basketball, soccer, hockey endlessly. Drool and lust after Hollywood starlets that love to show off their bodies. Drink yourself into a stupor and stay stoned. Just don’t question or complain about being a subject of Eretz Israel.

Those of us who considered the foreign policy debacle to be the most dangerous issue confronting the country, particularly as it was also fueling domestic tyranny, tended to vote on the basis of that one issue in favor of Trump.

It seems to me that people have been disgusted with ‘Merkin foreign policy for a long time. I believe that’s a large part of the reason the goon, GHW Bush lost a second term, why its goofy spawn who promised a compassionate conservatism with a humble foreign policy got elected, why the drone murderer and warmonger “Peace” prize prez got elected and the Charnel House Madame lost.

Trump will take care of himself and his buddies and the rest of us schmucks’ll get a few crumbs.

Aristophanes’ The Knights is about how a sausage seller became a politician. It’s a fun read, and I challenge anyone to make a good case of how it’s really any different now than it was 2.5 millennia back.

Demos
Oh! what a lot of good things! Why it’s quite full! Oh! what a huge great part of this cake he kept for himself! [1220] He had only cut off the least little tiny piece for me.

Sausage-Seller
But this is what he has always done. Of everything he took, he only gave you the crumbs, and kept the bulk.

– Aristophanes, The Knights, 424 BC

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0034%3Acard%3D1191

“The parasites get it all; honest industry and honest business must be grateful for a few crumbs only.”

Charles A Lindbergh Sr, “The Economic Pinch,” 1923 pg 119

Lindbergh was elected to the U.S. House of Representatives in 1906, as a Republican, serving in the 60th, 61st, 62nd, 63rd, and 64th congresses. He was a member of the House Banking and currency committee when the Federal Reserve Act was passed which he opposed.

It’s all a scam and a crummy deal for de lil pipple. Pun intended.

I agree, we will find out once in office. Trump is an America first guy, this will inevitably clash with Zionist interests, already has over Syria, Russia etc. The Iran stuff is just rhetoric. Bolton won’t be getting a position, nor are any other neocons.

Could have written a column at this point when JFK was President elect saying he was servile to Zionist interests, nothing could have been further from the truth once he assumed office.

How does Humpty Trump fit in here?

This imperial Christian nation, in point of fact, is moving toward neither Communism nor Fascism, though it supports and endures trifling minorities who clamor for both. The great bulk of its people prefer a sober middle course- the traditional American course, hallowed by the Fathers. That is to say, they prefer to follow indigenous mountebanks, bred in the native technique and speaking the native vulgate. Such mountebanks have been saving them quadrennially for a hundred years, and will continue at the job to the end of the chapter. Dr. Roosevelt, though he wears a halo, is certainly no god from the machine, no messiah sent from afar. He belongs to a hierarchy of wonder-workers which stretches back without a break to the first days of the Republic, and includes all the heroes that schoolboys are taught to revere.

H.L. Mencken, The American Future, The American Mercury, February 1937, pp. 129-136

http://www.unz.org/Pub/AmMercury-1937feb-00129

Where do people get their faith?

"American politics is about humoring neurotic Jews while they drive the country off the cliff." (Greg Johnson) Sad! https://t.co/fX4WZS60Sl— (((Luke Ford))) (@lukeford) December 25, 2016

Why change is only possible when you have someone like Trump who has been totally immersed in a Jewish milieu for his entire adult life.

How dare instead of aid they hook DC. J Street seemingly pro DC UN-res. Unrespected to UN-res is isolation move very clear.

Now if only POTUS Trump will implement a highly racialized National Origins Immigration Policy that excluded all nonwhite Legal Immigrants….just like our Friend ISRAEL!!!!

Damn dem nefarious Jews.

Just when we think we have elected a good Nazi as President he turns out to be a mole for Israel.

Damn dem nefarious Jews.

Breitbart commenters are already foaming at the mouth about the UN Palestinian vote and calling for the UN to be moved out of New York and all the “Pal Muzzies” be killed or kicked out the West Bank ASAP.

These are Trumps supporters and they aren’t looking at the finer points of anything. Bannon knows it, and Trump knows it, so the next stop is probably some new False Flag and the bombing of Iran.

What would be the effect be?

More 100.000’s of civilians killed and made homeless with a US public that couldn’t care less (as proved by Iraq, Libya etc.) . A temporary rise in the oil price and much more wariness of the US from both Russia and China and maybe even a mutual defense treaty.

The main issue for the US public would probably be the financial one. This time they would insist on a cheap and quick execution with no $Trillions (it’s being done on credit after all) and Trump could present himself as a Bush style all American hero if it’s over in a few days.

From the viewpoint of the ROW the US would be a certified Rogue Nation, that was also the world’s leading military/nuclear power, so Russia and China would no doubt urgently ramp up their nuclear capabilities – if they’re not already doing it.

Quote: “Donald Trump could make the world a safer place” Former Chief of the British Defense Staff – Lord Richards. Need to ask him about that one.

To Lot: And how long did the Outre Mer last? A century? All those squatters in Jerusalem and elsewhere ought to dust off their old passports for a return to Minsk, Pinsk and Miami Beach.

Jew Crusader, LOL. Stop spitting at crosses before you paint them on your clothing. How do you think Christians 1000 years ago would have looked on the Holy Land being occupied by a Jewish state?

Yeah, I agree that European and American usurpers who (temporarily) control the place need to pack the fuck up and go home. But who’s going to give them that kick in the ass? Where’s this new Saladin, who’s the new Baibars? I don’t see any…

There are about six million Palestinians enslaved by Zionists in Palestine. There must be up to three hundred million Americans enslaved by those same Zionists in the US. Which is a greater tragedy? We needed Pat Buchanan for president.

How do you think Christians 1000 years ago would have looked on the Holy Land being occupied by a Jewish state?

Make the West Great Again; bring back the Dark Ages.

Considering that Trump is surrounded by so many Jews and the fact that he is extraordinarily fond of his Jewish son-in-law (who has close ties to Israel) I never put much stock in his “America First” slogan. When push comes to shove Israel’s interests will trump (pun intended) America’s, but of course, we will be lectured that Israel’s interests are U.S. interests and anyone who dissents is an anti-semite and holocaust denier.

The loony and intellectually bankrupt left only labels Trump a Nazi insofar as he doesn’t hate white people which is their prerequisite for political office. Otherwise, he’s shaping up to be a Likudnik’s wet dream.

If Israel wants regime change with neighboring Muslim countries then it’s time they step up to the plate and risk bankruptcy. high military casualties and devastating terrorist attacks against their citizens to achieve it. They need to start paying with their own blood and treasure.

It’s time for the U.S. to chart an entirely different course and adopt neutrality and a defensive grand strategy as foreign and military policy.

Well not that Quisling Abbas, that’s for sure. But history has a way of providing surprises, even for a people that spent 2000 years trying to figure out how to get Jerusalem back. And history is littered with 1000 year Reichs, unconquerable empires and unsinkable ships. Note that the UNSC vote was 14-0 and that Europe is skeptical, to say the least, of America’s, and especially Trump’s , ability to lead.

“Great again”? Israel has always been great. Two words: high IQ.

Israel is America’s Crusader Kingdom, and Bibi is white America’s loyal viceroy.

“America is Israel’s Crusader army, and Trump is the Zionist entity’s loyal viceroy.”

There, fixed it for you.

Well, I think the most likely scenario would be mass-emigration, resulting from worsening of economic conditions. Infusions of US money can only do so much, and hopefully BDS will play its part…

I was encouraged that DJT might be more balanced in approaching Israel than it first appeared when this meeting cancellation showed up. http://www.timesofisrael.com/backing-swedish-far-rightist-trump-proxy-boycotts-top-israeli-official/

Nov 25, 2016 Donald Trump Picks Hawk CFR Henry Kissinger Aid To Cabinet

Donald Trump’s latest National Security Advisor pick apart of his cabinet K.T. McFarland. We go over who this person really is and what to expect in the future from this major decision.

but of course, we will be lectured that Israel’s interests are U.S. interests and anyone who dissents is an anti-semite and holocaust denier….

It’s time for the U.S. to chart an entirely different course and adopt neutrality and a defensive grand strategy as foreign and military policy.

Just curious whether our anchor baby patriot concurs with these statements.

I want the same kind of highly racialized National Origins Immigration Policy as Our Friend Israel!!!

Jared Kushner supports a Jew only National Origins Immigration for Our Friend Israel!!!

Donald Trump supports a Jew only National Origins Immigration Policy for our Friend Israel!!

Richard Spencer and Paul Kersey….take note of this….talk about nothing else….

Israel and its American sayanim control the WH, Congress, State, and the FED and Treasury, making sure that Israel is completely in control of us GOYIM.

Here is some background info on The Lobby:

I clicked on your link and read this:

This is not the first time officials tied to the incoming Trump administration have been criticized for ostensible support for far-right or neo-Nazi groups. Trump’s pick of Steve Bannon as chief strategist has irked many in the US Jewish community over his embrace of the white nationalist, racist “alt-right” movement while at the helm of the Breitbart news website.

A little rich seeing as they have no issues supporting an ethnostate.

anchor baby patriot

I assume this is my cue.

but of course, we will be lectured that Israel’s interests are U.S. interests and anyone who dissents is an anti-semite and holocaust denier….

Do not concur.

It’s time for the U.S. to chart an entirely different course and adopt neutrality and a defensive grand strategy as foreign and military policy.

Changes are definitely needed, not sure about the entirely part, and disagree with blanket neutrality.

Surprising enough, Kevin MacDonald has a more optimistic outlook on the present situation (“Donald Trump as a Zionist,” Occidental Observer, 26 December 2016).

When will Israel define its border? Is it Genesis 15:18 from the river in Egypt to the Euphrates river in Iraq? Didn’t God make His covenant conditional on the obedience of Abraham’s offspring? Deuteronomy 28. Does the modern, secular state called Israel have a living prophet telling the Jews to take the land away from the people living there? The 10 tribes of the Kingdom of Israel were conquered and assimilated in 722 BC leaving the southern Kingdom of Judah (and the tribe of Benjamin). They were conquered in 586 BC. Later Judeans (Jews) returned to Judea. The land today should rightfully be called Judea, not Israel, and of course Jews should be allowed to live there. But I disagree that it should be a solely Jewish state. Also, I do not believe that the modern, secular state called Israel has anything to do with the Second Coming of Christ. Modern Israel was created by the UN and is not the Israel of the Bible.

Well, a pro-Russian, pro-Israel Trump administration would probably align nicely with Bibi’s own foreign policy (which is informed by the demands of the large Russian-Israeli population). As Steve Sailer has noted for a long time, Israel’s right has been cozying up to Putin for a long time. True, they don’t see eye to eye on Iran or Syria, but I’m sure some arrangement can be hammered out.

Those of us who considered the foreign policy debacle to be the most dangerous issue confronting the country

Idiots, in other words.

For sure, but he has a point, and it all is part and parcel of a foreign policy that serves no actual interest for people who already live in the United States.

Globalism isn’t some detail of foreign policy. Not for the globalists, and not for their victims (the world).

At least Obama had the good sense to despise Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, but that will not be true of the White House after January 20th.

This seems odd for Trump, given how Boobie threw Trump under the bus during the election, and how the Zionists did pretty much nothing to help Trump – when they weren’t NeverTrumping, that is.

Maybe Trump’s invitation to Boobie is like his invitation of Romney; hi guy, here, have a long, long tease, now GTFO, enjoy the blue balls.

Or maybe Trump has in mind a strategy of using Israel as sword and shield. I think this would be an immensely useful strategy; pattern American policy on Israeli policy (sword); whenever criticized, defend by pointing to Israel (shield). It could be devastatingly effective, given the many billions of dollars the Zionists have spent building up Israel’s popularity in America. American cucks will be highly vulnerable to this strategy. Jews will be very weak against it. It will expose all kinds of fissures and vulnerabilities long papered over. And it will give implicit white nationalism a lot of room to maneuver. And in the long run, it will be good for the Zionists, and bad for diaspora Jewry.

Or maybe Trump’s strategy is somewhere in the middle.

You’re mostly speculating, jumping the gun, vis-a-vis Iran.

You’re right about Trump’s position on the Security Council resolution being straight from Boobie, but I can see a lot of potential up sides to cleaving closely to the rightist Israeli regime.

I noticed that you ignored Boobie/Trump’s point about Hussein’s sharp divergence from the bipartisan consensus in Congress. Much as we might hate to admit it, they have a point.

But unfortunately, Trump’s interventions suggest that nothing critical of Israel will be allowed to emerge from the U.N. during his term of office.

Maybe. Or maybe Trump will work deals with Boobie, the way he seems inclined to work deals with everyone. Trump may be inclined to grant unconditional support to the Zionist Jews, the way he probably hasn’t been inclined to grant it to New York City Jews (a corrolary of his continued survival in the NYC real estate business), but I wouldn’t bank on it.

Hussein has handed Trump a big favor with the Security Council abstention, btw. Trump can now point to the fact that White House support for Israel is not unconditional, without having to get his hands dirty. And he can position himself as quite the carrot. Personally, I’d make Boobie & the Zionists pay, in a public way, for throwing me under the bus during the campaign, if I were Trump, but maybe he has bigger plans.

Dan thanks for the link to the OD piece:
http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2016/12/donald-trump-as-zionist/#more-108242

America is run by Israel-Firsters. Giraldi & company are Israel-Lasters. Trump is (or seems to be) an America-Firster. KMac is a Whites-Firster, so naturally, he’s not as het up about Trump’s position as the Israel-Lasters are. KMac is obviously closest to my own position. Our problem is far more with diaspora Jewry, than it is with Israel. On the contrary, we’d like to have for ourselves something a lot like what Israeli Jewry has for itself.

Politics, after all, is the art of the possible. For us as advocates of a White America, our first priorities should be domestic policy — ending the immigration onslaught first and foremost. If doing that is made easier by supporting Israel, so be it.

Finally, I suggest that Trump’s sympathy for Jews and Jewish concerns is real, but that he is well aware of Jewish power and the need to use Jewish power and their personal abilities to his advantage. An article in the Jerusalem Post by Michael Wilner from September adds considerable detail to Trump’s very long history of Jewish ties.

Indeed. That makes perfect sense to me.

It is funny how Unz.com’s large stable of Israel/Jew haters just can’t decide if Trump is on their side or not. (I think Giraldi is right, he’s not, and Saker is wrong.)

Taking a wait and see attitude, and constantly correcting for new info, is common sense. I don’t find common sense “funny,” generally speaking, but to each his own.

Dealmakers support no one unconditionally. That seems like common sense to me – to see Trump as a dealmaker, before seeing him wedded to some cucked-out vision of Israel as “our” heretical Crusader State.

“Great again”? Israel has always been great. Two words: high IQ.

What’s Israel’s mean IQ again? 95, or something? Ashkenazi Israeli mean IQ is like 104, IIRC. Vast majority of the smart Jews live in the diaspora.

Giraldi & company are Israel-Lasters. KMac and I are Whites-Firsters.

And iffen & co are Stupidity-Firsters who conflate the two.

Make Israel great again; bring back ALEXANDER JANNÆUS.

Alexander’s chief aim was to make Judea great and powerful; to this he devoted his life.

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/1144-alexander-jannaeus-jonathan

Josephus tells us that this same dude …

…when he ordered eight hundred [Pharisees] to be hung upon crosses in the midst of [Jerusalem], he had the throats of their wives and children cut before their eyes; and these executions he saw as he was drinking and lying down with his concubines.

-Flavius Josephus, The Wars of the Jews, Book I, Chapter 4, William Whitson translation, 1987 edition, page 550-55-

Nary a kudo for Obama anywhere. The Jew MSM has supported him 100% for eight years – now nothing. He has given up untold millions in speaker fees from Jews (and probably every major interest) to do the right thing. Too bad he got the Nobel Peace Prize when he did – he deserves it now.

Trump campaigned that he was going to take America out of the bad guy trouble making column. Well with his actions on the UN vote he has squarely put America at odds with the world. In effect the vote was 15 for Palestine – zero for Israel. Hmm – 15 for good – ZERO for evil.

It appears that what Trump meant when he said he would end the Palestinian/Israeli conflict, was that he would give Palestine a deal that they could not refuse – either they take it, or he will give Netanyahu full range to do as he pleases.

Peace — Art

http://www.timesofisrael.com/backing-swedish-far-rightist-trump-proxy-boycotts-top-israeli-official/

senior member of President-elect Donald Trump’s transition team and a delegation of US Republican and European lawmakers canceled a briefing Thursday with Israel’s Deputy Foreign Minister Tzipi Hotovely over a refusal to allow a Swedish far-right member of the group into the meeting, The Times of Israel has learned.

Yes, that is very interesting, isn’t it?

It is funny how Unz.com’s large stable of Israel/Jew haters just can’t decide if Trump is on their side or not. (I think Giraldi is right, he’s not, and Saker is wrong.)

On second thought, I suppose I’ve unfairly lumped myself into the group you’re intending to criticize. There is, after all, a large stable of Israel-Lasters here at TUR.

The Israeli/Zionist cancer of America is irreversible at this point, so deeply entrenched are these forces in our nation. The assassination of John F. Kennedy came during the heights of his battle against Ben-Gurion and the possibility of a nuclear Israel, something he was dead set against and that quickly happened once he was out of the way. During this time, while JFK was attempting to place Israel’s Dimona Nuclear weapons program under US inspection, attorney general Robert Kennedy ordered AIPAC’s parent organization, AZC(American Zionist Council) to openly register and disclose all of its foreign funded lobbying activity in the United States. Of course, these plans were stopped by the murder of JFK and Israel today is fully nuclear and NO Israeli lobby has ever registered as a foreign agent.

https://pulsemedia.org/2009/08/28/the-kennedys-vs-israels-lobby/

More than likely, Trumps courting of Pro-Israel, Pro-war with Iran Romney was a signal to the Lobby and hard line Zionists.

“When Mitt Romney made Trump’s short list as a potential Secretary of State, the war-with-Iran agenda came sharply back into focus. A lay bishop in the Mormon Church, a Romney Administration would by now have led us into Israel’s long-sought war with Iran.
During Romney’s 2012 campaign, foreign policy adviser Dan Senor told journalists that if Israel launched a strike on Iran’s nuclear facilities, Romney “would respect the move.” Regardless of their personal differences (Romney called Trump a “phony” and a “fraud”), his hardline position on Iran qualified Romney to serve as Trump’s Secretary of State.
Should Romney be included in a Trump administration, Trump will be portrayed as magnanimous and Romney’s role will be cast as unifying the party. In truth, it will confirm that Zionists have consolidated their power in a presidency produced for the purpose of taking us to war in Iran. Those promoting the narrative of “Russian interference” in the 2016 presidential election fail to mention that Israeli Ambassador Ron Dermer campaigned for Romney in 2012; Netanyahu was prominently featured in a Romney campaign ad in Florida warning of the Iranian threat.
Romney adviser Dan Senor hailed Pompeo as a “superb pick” (Romney’s July 2012 trip to Israel is described as the “brainchild” of Senor and Dermer).[20] As chief spokesperson for the Coalition Provisional Authority and senior adviser to Bremer,[21] Senor put a positive spin on the disastrous post-invasion policies that devastated Iraq and pre-staged the conditions required for the emergence of ISIL.[22] While in Iraq, the neoconservative Senor represented not U.S. but Israeli interests.[23]
Trump’s transition confirms that Jewish elites and extremists have amassed enough control to pick presidential advisers able to shape U.S. foreign policy for the next fifty years. Lt. General Michael Flynn, former Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency,[24] was quickly named National Security Adviser. After the attack on the U.S. diplomatic compound in Benghazi, Libya in 2012, General Flynn kept asking his intelligence officers to look for a link to Iran—i.e., in much the same way that intelligence officers were pressed to look for a 9/11 link to Iraq. In neither case was there any link.

http://hiddentaxonhumanity.com/uncategorized/mel-rockefeller-commentary/mel-rockefeller-commentary/

Dear trolls and assailants,

Congratulations, you have won. Insults and pejoratives are one thing, intimidation and assaults are another. Other people may fancy violence and blackjacks, I have no taste for confrontation. In a few hours, you can raise your champagne flutes and celebrate my passing. Cyber-stalking laws are there for a reason. Parents, please don’t let this happen to your children, it turns life into a living hell.

– Allie

Don’t believe Obama just “developed a backbone”. This is a scam, pure and simple.

There will be massive false-flag attack on American soil, blamed on Russia, before Obama leaves office.

This newfound “compassion” for the little guy will make it all the easier for Obama to rally Americans into supporting martial law, and an open-ended Obama dictatorship, or at least putting up with it. With a little help from the Stasi, eh, “Homeland Security”, for luck.

At minimum, this move is simply what Noam Chomsky has described as the “standard zionist tactic of appearing to switch sides, last minute, to avoid being blamed”.

The US-Israel Axis of Diversity.

Trump didn’t need Obama’s action on the UN resolution to set that tone. George W. Bush let five UNSC resolutions pass against Israel, called on Israel to end the occupation of Palestinian land, called for a contiguous Palestinian state unfettered by Israeli settlements, condemned the settlement enterprise repeatedly, withheld U.S. loan guarantees to Israel, implemented strict restrictions on Israeli travel to the U.S., condemned the building of Israel’s security wall, condemned Israel’s attacks on Gaza, pushed Israel into the Annapolis conference and the Road Map, sold weapons to Arab states in violation of an agreement with Israel, pressured Israel to allow Hamas to run in the Palestinian elections, prosecuted AIPAC staffers for espionage, and refused to support an Israeli bombing run on Iran’s nuclear facilities. Nonetheless, his last year in office, with the financial support of Sheldon Adelson no less, he was honored at the first Israeli President’s Conference as Israel’s protector and the best friend Israel has ever had in the White House.

Obama’s big crime and the real favor he did for an incoming Trump administration was signing that Iran Nuclear deal giving Trump a shadow of an opportunity to avoid another war for Israel being so aggressively pushed by the Pro-Israel crowd.

All of Bush’s lesser crimes against Israel were easily forgiven for the much greater gift he gave the Zionists which was the war against and total destruction of Iraq and the huge cost it caused to the American empire which must happen for the torch to be passed from Pax Americana to Pax Judaica.

More than likely, Trumps courting of Pro-Israel, Pro-war with Iran Romney was a signal to the Lobby and hard line Zionists.

The quote seems both premature, and outdated in light of subsequent events.

Dear trolls and assailants,

Congratulations, you have won. Insults and pejoratives are one thing, intimidation and assaults are another. Other people may fancy violence and blackjacks, I have no taste for confrontation. In a few hours, you can raise your champagne flutes and celebrate my passing. Cyber-stalking laws are there for a reason. Parents, please don’t let this happen to your children, it turns life into a living hell.

You’ll be missed (that’s sarcasm).

There will be massive false-flag attack on American soil, blamed on Russia, before Obama leaves office.

Maybe we can get the Russians who just faked their ambassador’s assassination and blew up their own passenger jet to pull it off for us? If not, maybe the Russians who pulled off the false-flag bombings of Russian apartment buildings (to get Russian public support for 2nd Chechnian war) are available.

Before Russia is blamed for a false flag, Iran will be and very soon too. The destruction of Iran is the most pivotal prereq to a war against Russia and Putin will have to decide whether to let America exhaust its empire in Iran through war or continue with the stand he took in Syria., which logically would continue into support for Iran.

Nary a kudo for Obama anywhere. The Jew MSM has supported him 100% for eight years – now nothing. He has given up untold millions in speaker fees from Jews (and probably every major interest) to do the right thing. Too bad he got the Nobel Peace Prize when he did – he deserves it now.

Good point; the abstention won’t do him any favors in that department, that’s for sure. Which suggests that some of his Big Money Jews are on board; I doubt he’d put (all of) his Warbucks in jeopardy without at least consulting them.

Trump campaigned that he was going to take America out of the bad guy trouble making column. Well with his actions on the UN vote he has squarely put America at odds with the world. In effect the vote was 15 for Palestine – zero for Israel. Hmm – 15 for good – ZERO for evil.

Yeah, Trump seems more interested in America than The World. I tend to agree.

Israel-Lasters do seem pretty uninterested in what’s good for me and mine. Just like the Israel-Firsters. But at least there’s something to be gained from the latter.

This seems odd for Trump, given how Boobie threw Trump under the bus during the election

You keep repeating this false claim. Once again, in reality, Bibi distanced himself from Trump in mild terms after Trump proposed a blanket ban on Muslim non-citizens entering the U.S. The very same speech was criticized in much harsher terms by Marine Le Pen and, at the same time, the British parliament actually held a debate, after a petition signed by hundreds of thousands, on banning Trump from the country. The Prime Minister of France to take one example out of hundreds, said that Trump made him “want to retch”. At the same time, Arab MKs were threatening riots if Trump visited the country.

With all that said, Bibi is actually not a very good student of US affairs. He bet that Romney would win and Trump would lose. He doesn’t seem to have any more insight than anyone could get from reading the newspaper.

As always, a good article, Mr. Giraldi.

I wish that you would be on the NSC, not that you would necessarily want to be there.

As a non-US person, the turning point to complete pessimism about the Trump prexidency in your country was the reaction to the UNSC vote.

Breitbart News made it obvious that their core interest is to push settler Zionism ever since Trump was elected.

Sure, they have Milo as a dolly-bird to make it a little more than that at times.

They have just the same take as, or even worse, on the UNSC resolution that they pretend to be alternative to.

Obama did not show a spine by abstaining, to show a spine would have to voting in favour. Sure, an improvement, he could have allowed a very similar resolution to have passed, many years ago.

Two state solution：Israeli invaders (post-1973) to certify the legality of their land holdings, and to compensate the people they drove out in many places.

I read enough to know that some parts of eastern Jerusalem, there were legal sales, but they were in the inner parts of the city.

So my two-state solution has serious compensation for illegal theft of land post-1967, and the Israeli ‘settlers’ to be under a Palestinian government, in the same way as Arab citizens of Israel are within Israel.

I doubt that anybody will adopt this sensible idea, and, even if anyone does, wealthy Israel will not pay, but will demand that their USA colony does.

Really, the whole thing was something of a win-win; Hussein gave Israel-Firsters a slap in the face, which they desperately needed, and Trump tried to stop him, temporarily succeeded, but ultimately failed.

You may be right…… hard to say.

As for Iran, I think the zios got burned bigtime with the explosion of their rocket, days before the anniversary of 9/11, on the launchpad, seemingly by a missile (still not explained) and which absolutely freaked out the Israelis. The rocket carried a nuke “from Iran” designed to strike the US on the 15th anniversary of 9/11, after orbiting Earth for a day or two, just for cover.

My guess is that the downed TU-154 plane (a new low even for the Chosenites) , the assassination of the Russian ambassador, the Obama threats to Russia over the bogus election meddling, all point to Russia as the latest target of the zionists.

questions:

Who demands mass immigration into white gentile countries, but stops non-Jew immigration into “that shitty little country”?
Who runs the Federal Reserve?
Who runs Wall Street?
Who owns the US Congress?
Who owns the White House?
Who dominates the US Supreme Court?
Who forces acceptance of the fictitious & impossible ’6M & gas chambers’?
Who runs the media / entertainment?
Who runs the music business?
Who dominates ‘academia’?
Why is AIPAC the most powerful, dominant lobby, which regularly writes the text of Congressional bills and resolutions?
Who is it that wants to censor free speech via the “hate speech” canard?
Who is it that demands we shed the blood of US troops for their interests?
Who are the real & biggest racists on the planet?

France isn’t our greatest ally. Or a lobbying colossus. And I cut L Pen waaaaaaaay more slack than I do the Israelis, because the Israelis aren’t in an uphill struggle to win back their own country. England is enemy-occupied territory, too, but what’s Israel’s excuse? They’re an ethno-state, they have huge influence over the Jewish diaspora, who in turn have huge influence over American politics, but instead of being a friend to us as they are to Israel, they’re our foremost enemies. This stuff shouldn’t need explaining.

Bibi distanced himself, the Zionists did precious little but watch the election in silence, when they weren’t NeverTrumping.

Ethno-nationalists in Western Europe range from nobodies, to minorities. Ethno-nationalists are in charge in Israel, but they still threw us under the bus. They’ve never even crooked their pinky fingers to help us. Treachery from a supposed friend (the ethno-nationalists who have run Israel forever) is far worse than treachery from an enemy (the anti-ethno-nationalists who have run Western Europe forever).

iran is untouchable right now. china’s new silk road runs through it. the zionists would have to deal with iran, russia and china, all 3 at the same time.

I don’t see anyway for the zionists to win in that confrontation. it is also the reason why the iran/usa nuclear treaty even exists.

The most insightful and thorough overview I’ve read on our truly deplorable situation.

Thank you Philip Giraldi for not pulling any punches — we need truth now more than we ever have.

There never was going to be a two state solution. What will someday happen is a unified Israel that is not overtly a Jewish racial and religious state as it now is, but one that resembles other modern nations. It’s only a matter time.

As for settlers, they couldn’t be stopped in North America, either, but those of us with Native American ancestry had to live with it.

Interesting……….any links you can point me to regarding that failed false flag attack?

Friedman describes Jerusalem as “the holy capital of the Jewish people and only the Jewish people.”

It usually takes a lot for me to lose it, but…

Screw you, miserable punk!

Wally: Thanks for the genuinely relevant questions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPpybzN0cLo

Surprising enough, Kevin MacDonald has a more optimistic outlook on the present situation (“Donald Trump as a Zionist,” Occidental Observer, 26 December 2016).

Kevin MacDonald: Politics, after all, is the art of the possible. For us as advocates of a White America, our first priorities should be domestic policy — ending the immigration onslaught first and foremost. If doing that is made easier by supporting Israel, so be it.

http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2016/12/donald-trump-as-zionist/#more-108242

That is crazy – do blacks and Latinos control congress, the president, foreign policy, domestic policy, the media, education, and soon to be the courts. Get real!

The very reason we have too many Mexicans is because of Jew policy and politics.

America needs to fix its Jew control problem.

Only fools disagree with that.

Peace — Art

“Israel should put a tarp over…blah blah”
Sure, the evil empire and its begger biatch could do that, but…

“That’s what God wants.”
LOL!

What God has indeed promised is to fill hell with the pagan polytheist disbelievers. That would mean everybody who worships human-like beings, and animals (including the calf… 😉 )

England is enemy-occupied territory, too

Not really sure what this means. The majority of British people have, by American standards, liberal beliefs. They are occupying themselves. This is what British people think of Trump.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/06/tenth-of-britons-back-donald-trump-for-president-while-half-back-hillary-clinton

Perhaps you want to punish British people, too, along with more or less the whole world for opposing Trump. I hope not. I’m very fond of Britain.

but what’s Israel’s excuse?

1) Israel’s population is 20% Muslim. Muslim MKs threatened riots if Trump visited.
2) Israel relies on not alienating pro-peace-process, but not anti-Israel countries, like Britain, the political and elites and populations of which were (and are) wildly hostile to Trump.
3) Israel is loathed by huge swathes of the world, is the object of more UN resolutions than any other country by a huge margin, has sanctions against it by the EU and cannot afford to alienate people even further by allying with unpopular candidates with no chance of winning (again, in Bibi’s judgement).
4) Bibi was widely considered to have made a fool of himself and endangered Israel’s security for publicly backing Romney and was loathe to make the same “mistake” again,
5) Bibi’s comments were about a policy that is not, in fact, law in Israel (Muslims can and do frequently enter the country and Muslims can and do become citizens, for example if they marry an Israeli) and which Trump has, himself, effectively repudiated (I still think it’s a good policy, for what it’s worth.)

they’re an ethno-state, they have huge influence over the Jewish diaspora,

The majority of diaspora Jews support a Palestinian state, no matter how many times we tell them it means suicide, because they just know better. Yet you expect us to dictate their domestic political positions too?

but instead of being a friend to us as they are to Israel, they’re our foremost enemies.

Were this true, you would expect there to be some correlation between the amount of Jews/Jewish power in a country and the amount of anti-White leftism, but no such correlation exists. I don’t dispute that Jewish Americans are, for the most part your enemy. Since, nearly half are not even Jewish under Jewish law, I don’t even care.

(the ethno-nationalists who have run Israel forever)

The authors of the Oslo process have admitted that it was part of a plan to turn Israel from a Jewish state into a state with some Jews in it. Saying that “ethno-nationalists” have always run Israel is like saying that anti illegal-immigration patriots have always run America because the Democrats publicly claim to be patriotic and against illegal immigration. Even now, if Hamas would just develop some time preference and “lay down their weapons (wink wink)”, Israelis would elect a Leftist suicide government in five minutes flat. What it more, even when the most popular Palestinian faction openly declares their intention to slaughter every one of us, moderate ethno-nationalists can only cobble together a coalition government with the aid of Haredim. We’re just not as all-that as the alt-right seem to imagine.

Treachery from a supposed friend

You haven’t pointed to anything that amounts to treachery. Cowardice and poor judgement? Absolutely, but that’s no surprise. The reality is that Bibi is not that ethno-nationalist and not that smart. He’s stayed at the top of Israeli politics for a very simple reason. If the Left gain power, then the Palestinians will gain the West Bank meaning endless low level wars which will destroy the economy. If the (real) Right gain power then the international community will impose serious sanctions that will destroy the economy. The Bibi strategy is the only viable option, but it’s so dishonorable and shameful that’s he’s the only reasonably talented guy willing to do it and he doesn’t do it all that well.

“I want the same kind of highly racialized National Origins Immigration Policy as Our Friend Israel!!!”

Yeah, and I want the same thing for Germany.

Germans let in a million migrants from the ME but make ridiculous, craven arguments based on Second and Third Reich law when it comes to recognizing the descendants of those they pushed out and whose businesses were aryanized in the thirties.

“…by those murderous groups…”
In *comparison* to the evil empire and its beggar soulless master, these groups you talk of, are positively saintly 😀

One word: Networking

Talha,

Just how many inviolable Holy Cities do “you” people need?

“…acceptable that the Holy Land be occupied by Muslim barbarians…”

So says either a *human* worshipper or a descendent of *calf* worshippers, who have committed far greater murderous barbarity that us Muslim “barbarians.” H3ll will be a most appropriate place for likes of you, if you actually believed in such a thing.

Go usurp all you want, glorify yourselves all you want, for this fleeting moment in this world, for you will utter losers in His court.

As for us, worshippers of the One and Only, the Infinite, the *Unique*, the Unseen, we praise and glorify Him daily for choosing us to be Muslim “barbarians.”

The Old Farting Lesbian Angela Merkel must be convicted of TREASON!!!….and then dipped in a large vat of car battery acid…sealed…Do it in a popular public square so the German People can observe and enjoy kicks and screams emitted from the walls of the vat….Make it a German Family Holiday……Then kick the US Negro Military out of Deutchland….forever.

Goddamn it.

Well… it was certainly worth a try. Plan A didn’t work. Damn you Kushner. 🙁

I pray it isn’t but just in case, begin the sharpening of the pitchforks and the oiling of the torches cuz it may be time for Plan B. 😉

High IQ with Zero morality.

What would you understand about that.

Hey iffen,

I was upset about his “only” remark. If his remarks insinuate that they plan to eventually drive out Muslims from the city so that is it is for “only the Jewish people” – then that is utterly contemptible. Especially given the history:
“Playing to messianic expectations rampant among 16th-century Jews, Sultan Süleyman the Magnificent invites Jewish refugees from the Spanish expulsion to settle in his realm. Jerusalem, already an established center of mystics, becomes a magnet for pious Jewish settlers who flock here in greater numbers for the first time since antiquity.”
http://www.bu.edu/mzank/Jerusalem/p/period6-3.htm

Peace.

no matter how many times we tell them it means suicide

What suicide, are you insane? Why don’t you just go back where you (or you parents) came from, and let the good people of Palestine return, rebuild their villages, and live in peace as they did for centuries before all this madness started. What’s suicidal about that?

“Who are the real & biggest racists on the planet?”

Why, the whites of course. Or, was that a trick question?

> When will Israel define its border?

how long was the USA in existence when it completed its “land grab” from the Spanish-American War?

How long was Russia in existence when it re-annexed Crimea?

“Two State Solution” – what is that, the revival of the Confederate States of America?

PS: whenever you see a tail wag a dog, you know that you’re looking a very strong tail…. or a very weak dog. What’s the last three things that Philip Giraldi did to strengthen the footing of the weak dog?

hey Talha, how about we make a fair compromise…. a religion gets to declare a place to be its “Holy City”, if the religion is indigenous to that place?

YHWH-cult and Jesus-cult are indigenous to Eretz Israel. We all agree on that

Mohammed-cult is indigenous to….. Saudi Arabia.

You can keep Mecca.

I’ll be shocked if the US does not go to war with Iran under Trump, but better war with Iran than war with Russia. The US Empire will have its war with somebody, so let it be with people who really can’t damage the US physically. I am curious to see if Trump deals with the Salafist supporters like Saudi Arabia and Qatar. The only thing Trump’s ambassador appointment did was to make the official policy visible to all. There is no faux liberal nonsense out there that can hide the emperor’s nakedness now. BDS is the only way to peacefully end the Israeli occupation. America’s unconditional support for Israel has already done damage to American interest in the Middle East. I guess even the idiots among the Muslim population can see what the true policy of the US and Israel has always been concerning the Palestinians now thanks to Trump. The appointment is a stroke of genius if what I read is correct and Friedman is to the right of Netanyahu. It changed nothing but the perception. Congress will fight the appointment I bet in order to keep the lie alive.

Not really sure what this means.

I’m not surprised. I can’t play the obtuse role, so I’ll just skip your comment instead.

“Great again”? Israel has always been great. Two words: high IQ.

Two more words: Mere quackery.

Who invented the concept, and who promoted it, and who profits from administering these so called “intelligence” tests?

They have about as much worth as the laughable Nobel prizes, Pulitzer prizes, and what not.

Just another manifestation of the endless self preening of the self promoted racially superior, self obsessed ones.

Only a gull would believe otherwise. Bunch of birdbrains, in fact.

Can someone explain this? I haven’t a clue what he or she is talking about.

Hey Karl,

a religion gets to declare a place to be its “Holy City”, if the religion is indigenous to that place?

Makes no difference to us; the Biblical prophets are ours too and we claim them as such.

This is not about belief because there is no way to argue about that; Buddhists can declare it to be a Holy City for all we care. We can simply show facts that, when Muslims had control of that city, they allowed Jews to reside there – often to the consternation of Christian voices.

There is no way the Muslim world will stand by if Israelis intend to empty out Jerusalem of its Muslim population (assuming I read the man’s words right). Not after spilling blood and pitting steel for nearly 14 centuries against Byzantines, Latins, Mongols, French, etc. for sovereignty.

Right now – everyone should try to stick to the UN plan for the city and not overstep any bounds in an already volatile situation.

Peace.

What ingenious constitutional arrangements do you forsee to allow Jewish fears of being swamped by Arab voters to be overcome?

Why should Native Born White American Christians continue to subsidize Greater Israel…and send off their teenage sons to die as canon fodder for Greater Israel?

Wally: P.S. — I admire your persistence regardless the considerable number of “sayanim volunteers” here, paid and unpaid, not to mention the many gatekeepers, the disinformed, etc. A lot is at stake for us all and it takes courage to look and see and speak up for sanity and freedom.

Lord,
does israel conquer america continent? And all the world is blaming america continent (of huge power posture) now?

Lord,
should america continent hug the huge of better temporary influences of israelis?

Lord,
we believe in YOU .. clearly unbelieve in any arsenal that hurt every human rights here and there

Lord,
does israel do conquer america continent of freedom?

I sometimes wonder if you are trolling as you don’t seem to be stupid. But the idea of the “people of Palestine” returning (sic – you aren’t referring in reality to many people who were their before) to “rebuild their villages” is beyond ludicrous. Who wants to live in a village these days? Villlages built again where now there is a factory or a freeway? What do you do for employment or home sites when your family has multiplied by five or ten times in number? As for the peaceful past!!

I never understood why “religious” Jews object to Palestinians co-habiting a common ancestral land; nor Hamas/Pals declaring their intention to throw every Jew into the sea.

I think Trump looks at reality, the one which Russia and many nations in the ME have bugun to embrace: Israel is to be the sovereign nation which extends citizenship to Palestinians in the WB. She has the wherewithals to execute this successfully. Pals in turn must pledge fealty to the state and work towards a better shared future. Those that wish not to, are free to leave with fair compensation.

Jews worried about the demographic future ought to do their bit, as in fact they have, rather busily it seems, with recent Jewish birth rates exceeding Pal rates.

for “only the Jewish people”

They would tread lightly in this regard. It is inconceivable that they would antagonize and cut themselves off from evangelical Christians. I have many contacts in that community and will put in a good word for you and your peeps concerning access to the Holy Sites if things get out of hand.

I am also quite confused – and going to the archive of this poster reveals no clues…

I can only ask:
“Allie, are you OK? Are you OK, Allie?”

Hopefully she has not been hit by a smooth criminal.

Peace.

At the risk of taking seriously mere trolling about psychometrics and its history allow me to ask what Nobel Prizes you are referring to in the same breath as Pulitzer Prizes as “laughable”.

Presumably the separately governed Peace Prizes? Possibly the late added Economics Nobels? Literature? But I don’t suppose you would want to dismiss the positive significance to hard science and medicine of the work which was honoured by about 98/99 per cent of the hard science Nobels awarded.

Well said!

OBAMA’S CHRISTMAS EVE ASSAULT ON FIRST AMENDMENT

The Countering Disinformation and Propaganda Act

The attack on our freedom of speech has begun. What do you bet that criticizing Israel gets labeled ‘Disinformation and Propaganda’? Not to mention any reporting on Syria or Ukraine that questions official US line.
http://www.commondreams.org/news/2016/12/26/under-cover-christmas-obama-establishes-controversial-anti-propaganda-agency

OBAMA GUILTY OF FELONY OR TREASON
Obama should be prosecuted for providing aid to terrorists.

Looks like Obama is setting booby-traps for P.E. Trump. But shouldn’t Obama be held accountable for his crimes? Since 2012 at least (i.e. his entire second term) Obama has been training and funding groups allied with terrorists. That is a crime. Any regular citizen would be prosecuted for providing aid to terrorists. The only question: felony or treason?

SENATE AND CONGRESS GUILTY OF AIDING AND ABETTING, OR OF MISPRISION, WHICH IS ALSO A FELONY

Apparently a commenter with the handle vintueil and egghead know each other. One doxed the other, I forget which, it doesn’t have anything to do with anything.

No way are “the rest of us” going to be left out of it. We’re hosts — parasites need those; too few of we-the-hosts seem to realize we don’t need our blood drained to the last drop though. And this has been going on for a very long time (google “Tacitus and the Jews”). “When will we ever learn?” in enough numbers to make a difference? Maybe we won’t.

Why is Israel so evil?

But at least we’ll finally get a war with Iran. Iran is a great nation with a great history (real history). Their people are proud of their country. So they’ll fight for it! Not like Saddams boys.

Who knows maybe even Israel will launch an attack on Hezbollah (though I doubt it).

The DoD opened combat positions to women expanding its recruitment pool for the eventual occupation force needed for Iran.

Think of all the movies and games that can be sold based on a new war with Iran in Western markets.

It’s gonna be great.

He is a Jewish rights warrior [or worrier] of sorts, decent enough chap I reckon; other than carrying a virulent hatred for those he considers antijewish. I had exchanged words with him on this forum.

This post is weird, to say the least, it suggests someone stalked and physically accosted him, with serious consequences. The mention of his own passing is suggestive of what Ron Unz had hinted at in those past exchanges – mental illness.

e.g., you might care to follow the thread on this one:

https://www.unz.com/jderbyshire/what-do-jennifer-rubin-and-brett-stephens-have-against-nativism-oh-wait/?highlight=Sobran#comment-1586859

“I have no taste for confrontation…”

Anybody who’s curious can check out your posting history here and see for themselves your penchant for malice and dishonesty.

“But the idea of the “people of Palestine” returning (sic – you aren’t referring in reality to many people who were their before) to “rebuild their villages” is beyond ludicrous. Who wants to live in a village these days? Villlages built again where now there is a factory or a freeway? What do you do for employment or home sites when your family has multiplied by five or ten times in number? As for the peaceful past!!”

Especially when the Israelis are cutting down and burning all their olive trees. Which by the way is forbidden by the Old Testament as a gross sin.

You really aren’t familiar with peasant farmers, are you? Or olive trees for that matter. They take twenty years to mature and bear fruit for long centuries.

But turn the question around–why would the early Zionists want to return to Israel after more than a thousand years to refound and rebuild an ersatz”Israel” in the image of a Neo-Hegelian heresy, especially since many of them were atheists or agnostics?

Also why would anyone want to live the Holy Land of ticky tacky apartments, freeways, walls and so forth? Kibbutz perhaps one can understand, farming like the Palestinian peasants, right? Netanyahuesque real estate speculators’ pigeon holes?

Señor Trump is P. T. Barnum redivivus. He has never looked at reality in his life. What he sees is his name writ all over the landscape, inlaid with gold, classy looking broads, hotels, casinos and so forth. Has Señor Netanyahu promised him a high rise hotel casino overlooking the wall?

I am just speculating, but that commenter egregiously doxxed somebody else on this site a few months ago, he divulged his name, where he worked, he even posted selfies of the guy; it was unbelievably contemptuous. Maybe that guy, or some of his friends, or people who agree with his views (the guy who was doxxed was a white-nationalist type) sought out revenge??

Fish rot from the head.

And you have the gall to suggest trolling…

I am also quite confused – and going to the archive of this poster reveals no clues…

I also went to comment archives looking for clues but found none.

“Jews worried about the demographic future ought to do their bit, as in fact they have, rather busily it seems, with recent Jewish birth rates exceeding Pal rates.”

Interestingly enough, among the highest birth rates in Israel are Haredi Jews. One problem they range from indifferent to Zionism and Latter Day Israel to outright hostile to both:

“Given the current birth rate of about six children per Haredi mother, some predict they will make up 25% of the population within a few decades. And a significant proportion of these are somewhere on a scale from indifferent to downright hostile to the state of Israel, and refuse to serve in its army. Last year a uniformed IDF officer was pelted with stones, eggs and nappies in Mea Shearim.”

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2016/may/12/for-haredi-jews-secular-zionism-remains-a-religious-heresy

So after the Palestinians, who’s next on the Netanyahu Zionist Imperial hit list?

The Swedish Academy has an agenda even for the so-called “hard sciences” and medicine.

Did Henry Judah Heimlich get or even ever get seriously considered for a Nobel Prize in medicine, which he richly deserved?

Why not then? Answer that question even roughly according to reality and you will have uncovered some aspects of same agenda.

“It is Israel’s by right of conquest.”

Whose conquest was that–the Britishers?

Abraham or Avram came from Sumer. The Elohim were the gods of the lands now known as Israel/Palestine. Certainly, whatever one chooses to call the Creator it is surely the same one for all of us and for every living thing.

Stories about gods saying this and that regarding land or commandments are just the result of con tricks played on primitive, unsophisticated fools choosing to believe in an anthropomorphic God. That some people still believe and are still around to comment on The Unz Review is a sad commentary on our species.

What ingenious constitutional arrangements do you forsee to allow Jewish fears of being swamped by Arab voters to be overcome?

Good people – people of good will can always find a way to work things out.

The problem is that the Jews want it all – they do not want a solution.

It is clear from all the Jew comments – that is so.

Peace — Art

“In 1984 Dr. Heimlich, the recipient of many honors, won the Albert Lasker Public Service Award, one of the nation’s most prestigious medical science prizes, for a ‘simple, practical, cost-free solution to a life-threatening emergency, requiring neither great strength, special equipment or elaborate training.’…”

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/17/us/dr-henry-j-heimlich-famous-for-antichoking-technique-dies-at-96.html

See that: “simple, practical, cost-free solution to a life-threatening emergency, requiring neither great strength, special equipment or elaborate training.”

You’re getting warm.

Since you despise us so much, why do you post here. Your attitude towards us is the same as the Jewish geniuses have towards us

How dare you Nancy’s bring your illiterate retard drama onto Unz.com

Just shoot each other already.

Who knows Robin,

Perhaps all the oligarchs who own the big media conglomerates as well as others, will all find themselves in orange jumpsuits and deposited in Guantanamo Bay for having defrauded the American people into the catastrophic Iraq war ?.

The citizenry of our nation were thoroughly conned out of trillions (upon trillions) of our tax dollars , to initiate a war of aggression and murder countless of innocent people who never attacked us on 9-11 …and never intended to .

Why is that okay ?

Why wouldn’t President Trump, who in his own words stated “they lied us into the Iraq war” make this a top priority of his administration ?

Is there one American , anywhere, who would complain if he did ?

Is there really one decent American citizen, you can find anywhere in our country, who enjoys being defrauded out of his or her dough to go murder tons of people who never did anything to anybody ?

I don’t think so….do you ?

Certainly the combined assets of these deceitful oligarchs, clawed back to our nations balance sheet (where it rightfully belongs) would go a long way toward funding the trillion dollar infrastructure projects President Trump wishes to get off the ground.

Wouldn’t they ?

Perhaps President Obama felt we should look forward and not back, but that was before the full realization of this massive, deceitful “war fraud”(as well as its outrageous costs) had crystallized in the minds of most Americans ….besides, the last time I checked there is no statute of limitations on murder…Is there ?

If all the pretexts for the Iraq war were contrived and phony from the get-go (and it seems quite clear now , that they were)…. why , pray tell, should the burden of the costs of that war be born on the backs of the 300 million Americans who were lied into it ?….Shouldn’t the liars…the “war propagandists” bear the burden ?

Wouldn’t passing a law against “War Fraud” and “War Propaganda” be a fine thing, especially if its made retroactive to 2002 ?

How else will they ever learn that “lying” us into “war” is NOT okay ?

How else will they learn that lesson ?

Salaam Qasim,

Live by the sword…I guess. Both acts are deplorable to me – seems a shame to try to destroy each others’ lives over a tiff on an anonymous forum – just my opinion.

Wa Salaam

“Is there one American , anywhere, who would complain if he did ?”

Dick Cheney?

The vat should be made of glass so all can see her torment

Hmmm.. Erdogan really seems to believe that the US was behind the recent coup.

Or maybe he is just sour at the US for having misled him that Assad would fall but not delivering on the promise.

Or maybe he is trying to push the blame on OTHERS when he himself clearly supported ISIS.

Whose conquest was that–the Britishers?

The conquest of territory vacated by the British, prevailing over local Arabs and the invading armies of Egypt, Iraq, Syria, and Jordan.

The British intended on giving Jews about half of modern Israel, but the British were never going to defend those intended borders.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestine_war

Average JEWISH IQ in Israel is something like 95. It will get lower because the hasids have most of the children and their state supported religious schools don’t go further than 4th grade

The basis kids don’t learn math much beyond 4 the grade. All the girls need to know is how to cook, have babies and go to the benefits office.
All the boys need to do us learn to read so they can spend the rest of their lives studying religion

Since the descendants of Russian commie Zionists have few kids and the various sects of looney orthodox have most of the kids Israeli IQ will get lower each generation

How do you think Christians 1000 years ago would have looked on the Holy Land being occupied by a Jewish state?

They would have preferred it to Islamic rule and viewed it as in accordance with the Bible.

Our problem is far more with diaspora Jewry, than it is with Israel.

If the muzzies ever take over Israel, guess where the Israeli Jews will all come!

Ashkenazi Israeli mean IQ is like 104, IIRC. Vast majority of the smart Jews live in the diaspora.

I agree Ashkenazi Israelis have lower IQ than full-blooded non-Israeli Ashkenazi because the choice to become a farmer-soldier in Israel v a citizen of a safe Western democracy would have sorted by IQ.

Regression to the mean, however, would have greatly narrowed these differences by now.

Ultimately it isn’t very important going forward, as fewer and fewer full-blooded Ashkenazi are being born as they intermix with whites and asians in the USA and Sephardi and Slav-Ashkenazi hybrids from the former USSR.

That’s so funny, I was thinking the same thing, but instead of the Palestinians I was thinking Israel.

I mean, as an American, nothing would be better then to remove the Jewish enemy that currently infests this once great nation.

That just delayed the war with Russia though.

People here seem to be thrilled that Trump is bff with Putin. It is just a ruse. The game is to weaken China by turning Russia against China and to topple Iran. Then the US will use its superior military to take down China.

Once China is dealt with, the west will focus on economically destroying Russia. Russia cannot be controlled economically with China still standing, but without China the Russians can be starved into submission.

If you wonder why Russia is always a target no matter what, you need to read up on the Heartland and Mackinder. Russia is always the number 1 target.

Süleyman the Magnificent invites Jewish refugees from the Spanish expulsion to settle in his realm. Jerusalem

So Suleiman the Mag was a lover and not a fighter? IMO, he had an ulterior motive since Jews possessed wealth, education and influence in Europe which could benefit the Ottoman Empire. I doubt it was because he was committed to religious tolerance and pluralism.

Spanish Jewish expellees were also welcomed by other Christian states like England, France, and Holland, so it wasn’t as if Christian Europe slammed the door shut on Jews. Only Spain did and it appears with pretty good reason depending on the historical account(s) once chooses to believe.

Some Muslims, blaming Jews for their own declining fortunes, committed atrocities against those making their journey to the coastal areas where ships would take them to other Christian states or places controlled by the Ottoman Empire. The Spanish Christians did little to protect them.

If the muzzies ever take over Israel, guess where the Israeli Jews will all come!

Yeah, I know. I’ve heard all the angles, believe me. I’ve certainly heard that one many times, anyway. 95% of everything I’ve ever heard, in fact, I heard first discussing the issue at Stormfront.

Just gonna have to live with the risk, I guess. The Sampson Option, Mutually Assured Destruction, etc.

So says either a *human* worshipper or a descendent of *calf* worshippers, who have committed far greater murderous barbarity that us Muslim “barbarians.” H3ll will be a most appropriate place for likes of you, if you actually believed in such a thing.

Obviously Lot gave you reason to retaliate, so I’ve no objection there. But, Muslims really have no room to criticize along the lines you’ve chosen. You hold up a child-molesting bandit and murderer as your “perfect model of humanity”; your Christ, in effect.

Put another way, your greatest religious aspirations are to child-molesting, banditry, murder, etc. Sorry to break it to you, but this is baked into the Muslim cake.

Pals in turn must pledge fealty to the state and work towards a better shared future. Those that wish not to, are free to leave with fair compensation.

I’m afraid any such pledge would be worthless.

Jews worried about the demographic future ought to do their bit, as in fact they have, rather busily it seems, with recent Jewish birth rates exceeding Pal rates.

They’re setting the stage for reclaiming Eretz Israel, in the name of Lebensraum. They won’t use that word much, though.

They’re setting the stage for reclaiming Eretz Israel, in the name of Lebensraum. They won’t use that word much, though.

I mean, what will borders do to stop them? They’ll colonize Jordan, Lebanon, etc. And invade to “protect Jewish minorities there” in future. They can have PMCs do the day-to-day security, and run cross-border raids when the real military is needed. Who’s gonna stop them? The UN? On paper, it will still be Jordanian, Lebanese, etc., territory, but in reality, it will be Israeli.

The private bankers that conspired and created the unconstitutional Federal Reserve, control our currency and have an infinite supply of money. They own the United States (which was turned into a corporation in 1871). They own our gov’t, media, medical establishment and all major institutions. They created Israel and wreak havoc on the world in the form of wars. They control all the central banks (except for North Korea, Iran and Cuba) and therefore control the world.

They’re in the process of culling the world population through chemtrails, vaccines and wars. We need a worldwide awakening and revolution to take control back. There’s billions of us but unfortunately everyone is asleep.

“I agree Ashkenazi Israelis have lower IQ than full-blooded non-Israeli Ashkenazi because the choice to become a farmer-soldier in Israel v a citizen of a safe Western democracy would have sorted by IQ.”

I thought that one of the big unmentionable sins of the Zionists is that they turned away lots of Jews from British occupied Palestine during WWII, and afterwards, on the grounds that they were mentally and/or physically unfit for the planned Zionist state. The Zionists used eugenics against Jews, so you would think that the Ashkenazis in Israel would be at least on par with the Ashkenazis elsewhere. The sabras were supposed to be mentally and physically superior beings, which is ironic beyond belief on so many levels. They apparently failed on both goals.

Why don’t diaspora Jews make an issue of Israel’s rejection of other Jews as being unfit to be Israelis?

https://azvsas.blogspot.com/2009/05/nazi-zionist-eugenics.html

> Whose conquest was that–the Britishers?

no, it would be those souls who are currently sleeping in Israel’s numerous Military Cemeteries. Whatever we possess, was given to us by them, on a silver platter.

Outside materiel help & support is always gratefully accepted. However, those cemeteries are full of our own people.

> continue to subsidize Greater Israel…

if that money gets cut off…. fine with me, as long as you ALSO stop giving money & guns to our neighbors. Use the money to pay down your debt. History teaches us that merely paying of 1% of a debt can turn things around, a LOT.

> and send off their teenage sons to die as canon fodder for Greater Israel?

one of the favorite themes here. We didn’t directly gain anything from your Iraq or Afghanistan adventures. It is possible to posit second-order and third-order effects that were helpful to us….. however comma, i don’t think anyone can accurately measure those.

We get a LOT more results from dealing with those sorts of people ourselves, quietly. Consider the cases of two Muslim countries: Azerbaijan & Khazakhstan. Cureently de-facto aligned with us….. That was OUR foreign ministry, every step of the way.

By the way Talha, we have PLENTY of Muslims in the IDF and EVEN MORE in the Border Police. The only point of contention is YOUR refusal to stop, stopping Jews from praying on the Temple Mount. Even just closing your eyes and standing still up there, gets a Jew arrested by the Muslim Police.

There wasn’t one American soldier’s downrange deployment which cut even ONE DAY off the reserve duty Israelis still need to do to man checkpoints. Our problem is the Palestinians. Whatever happens in Anbar province or Kandahar province doesn’t change the daily reality of needing to put these Palestinians through metal-detectors to find knives. It just doesn’t.

Israel is to be the sovereign nation which extends citizenship to Palestinians in the WB. She has the wherewithal to execute this successfully. Pals in turn must pledge fealty to the state and work towards a better shared future. Those that wish not to, are free to leave with fair compensation.

Here’s the German “Lebensraum” version:

Germany is to be the sovereign nation which extends citizenship to Russians and Ukrainians in the Eastern Territories. She has the wherewithal to execute this successfully. Ethnic Russians and Ukrainians in turn must pledge fealty to the German state and work towards a better shared future. Those that wish not to, are free to leave with fair compensation.

Except that 1) It was Russian land to start with 2) It was taken by force 3) Ethnic Germans will form a new upper class and have economic priority 4) Many Russians and Ukrainians will be obliged to leave – and without compensation.

Nope.

10.4 MILLION DOLLARS A DAY, we send in “aid” to Israel.

For what?!

Our goddamn infrastructure and everything else is LITERALLY falling apart around us in this country. Bridges collapsing. Roads with potholes the size of manhole covers causing deadly blowout accidents. Schools falling apart, Veterans dying while waiting for hospital visits, drug overdose death rates skyrocketing, homeless and jobless Americans in the millions. And the list goes on and on of issues that Americans need aid with.

But instead of using that money to try to fix these problems, in America, for Americans that need aid, what do we do?

We send 10.4 MILLION DOLLARS A DAY in “aid” to Israel.

For what?!

Imagine if we used that 10.4 MILLION DOLLARS A DAY on American aid instead of to destroy our International name by subsidizing the building of illegal settlements, the running of the worlds largest open-air prison, the maintaining of an apartheid wall, and slaughter of Palestinian families in their homes with weapons made and paid for by us.

Mr. Giraldi wrote yet another great piece with this “Welcome to Greater Israel” article. Here’s a “Welcome to Gaza” to see what our 10.4 MILLION DOLLARS A DAY has bought us. How much longer are we going to allow this to continue?

Who wants to live in a village these days?

Whoa, what a way to miss the point. For all I care, they can build a super-futuristic metropolis, if they prefer; the point is that the region’s native people should be in control of their land; not exactly a novel or controversial concept.

It’s just that over 400 Palestinian villages have been depopulated and about a hundred of them destroyed by European settler-colonists since 1948…

An agenda you say? Who could have ever guessed, eh? Please don’t spoil the sweet dreams of the innocent, good sir! 😉

The Buzzard itself mentioned the “Peace” prize. That should have been its first clue.

The word ‘Barbarian’ in your title is redundant.

Fox Mulder, is that you?

Well I’ll grant that those escaping the shtetl had one thing in common with the Palestinian refugees’ descendants. That is an embarrassingly high fertility which was perhaps even more of a problem for them than those for whom the UN organises sustenance and shelter. But that is about as far as your comparison is useful. Palestine had a lot of underused land when the first Zionists arrived. Not true today of Israel apart from parts of the Negev. Small holdings and small scale co-operatives were an aspirational novelty as well as subject for romantic nostalgia 100 plus years ago for often illiterate, often intellectual socialist Jews. The situation of Palestinians in their diaspora or benefiting (somewhat) from the post WW2 refugee convention is very different.

As to your point about olives, as it happens I do know a bit about olives having chosen and planted quite a few by hand and picked the fruit. And your point about peasant farmers and olive trees directly contradicts your argument. Why would prople living poor but modern lives in towns or equivalently large refugee camps for three generations consider a deal which would allow those of them descended from olive owning peasants to plant small plantatations of olives which might, in 20 years time, begin to support a small fraction of the now extended family?

I wonder if it is time to cleanse official positions of “foreign agents” yet.

And “the press” worries about Russia…. (now Obama has announced “retaliation” for the clear-and-present influencing of US elections; this means there will be “events” in Russia in the next two weeks and maybe a few dead-by-terrorist ambassadors too; I wonder what the return ticket will be)

What is the argument of constitutional law which justifies the statement that the Federal Reserve is uncontitutional?

Has that argument ever been tested in the courts? If not why not?

I am surprised that you say Spanish Jews went to England and France. The Netherlands very likely but my recollection is that there were practically no Jews in England from their expulsion in the late 13th century until readmission under Cromwell. (I recall that some Jewish physician got blamed for something under Queen Elizabeth but he was no doubt blamed for misrepresenting the unique skills which justified his residency).

Reading your comments, it often seems like there’s a reasonable person struggling to get out underneath a bitter liar who resorts to ludicrous Procrustean logic chopping whenever pressed to defend his false claims.

OK -I won’t stop to question anything about your last paragraph but do ask that you flavour your suggestions with realism and perhaps work into any ethical argument some arguably relevant principles like those underlying statutes of limitations and prescriptive titles.

And it would be interesting to know how your suggested principles might apply to very many other occupations extending back to …. whatever date you choose to justify …. including Tibet, Taiwan, West Irian, Crimea, Goa, Matabeleland, Western Sahara, Northern Cyprus, Amazonia etc etc.

Reality.

1948-1967. During the Jordanian occupation of East Jerusalem, all Jewish residents were expelled, Jewish access to holy sites was forbidden, all synagogues were destroyed and their stones were used for public latrines.

1967- Present. After the liberation of the undivided capital of the Jewish people. Muslims live in East Jerusalem, they retain ownership of and access to all their holy sites, freedom of religion of all is respected, with the exception of Jews who are not allowed to pray on the temple mount, in violation of the Israeli constitution. By way of thankyou for the undeserved magnanimity of the Israeli government, Jerusalem’s Muslims use their “holy” Al Aqsa to hold frequent riots, sometimes throwing Molotov cocktails into the Western Wall plaza.

But biting the hand that feeds you whilst lying about it is just what Muslims do, always and everywhere.

Hey Lot,

From a historical basis; every time the Christians (Antiquity or Medieval) got hold of the cities of the Holy Land it usually did not turn out well for the Jews. Here are some citations I’ve made before…

Taking just the city of Jerusalem as an example, here is what journalist and historian Nissim Rejwan (an Iraqi Jew) wrote about the phenomenon:
“It is interest to note here that, as far as Palestine is concerned, the right of Jews to ‘return’ to live in this small area of land was accepted by all successive Muslim rulers from the Muslim conquest to the end of the nineteenth century, when Zionist settlement there became entangled in European weltpolitik. Gibb and Bowen relate how, when the Jews of Europe ‘learned of the paradisiacal life awaiting them in Turkey’ and many of them set out for Palestine, it was not the Muslims who objected but the [Christian] Franciscans of Jerusalem, ‘who talked the Pope into forbidding the Venetians to carry Jewish passengers to the Holy Land.’ This was not the first time Jerusalem Christians tried to prevail on Muslim rulers to ban Jews from living in the city. A similar attempt was made first when the second Caliph, Omar, entered Jerusalem at the time of its conquest by the Muslim army in the seventh century, and again when Salah ad-Din [Saladin] drove out the Crusaders in the twelfth. On both of these occasions, the Christian patriarch of the city tried to persuade the Muslim conquerors to prevent Jews from living in or (as in the latter case) returning to Jerusalem after they had been expelled from it by the Christians. Both Omar and Salah ad-Din refused to heed their pleas.”
Israel’s Place in the Middle East: A Pluralist Perspective

The ban that Umar (ra) lifted had been in place for 500 years:
“Umar fulfilled the hopes of Jews by refusing the church’s request to continue the ban against Jewish residence and inviting them back into the city. In the seventh century, as Jerusalem came into Muslim hands, the ban on Jewish residence was lifted. After approximately 500 years of being Judenrein, Jerusalem again included a Jewish community. Jews long banned from living in Jerusalem by Christian rulers, were permitted to return, live, and worship in the city of Solomon and David.”
http://www1.american.edu/ted/hpages/jeruselum/muslim.htm

“Omar permitted the Jews to reestablish their presence in Jerusalem–after a lapse of 500 years…Jewish tradition regards Omar as a benevolent ruler…”
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0015_0_15096.html

Peace.

Stupid question, stupid answer. Apart from anything else, the Crusaders wouldn’t consider the Protestant population of the US to be legitimate Christians. I doubt they’d consider the Pope to be a Christian. What is the point in talking about stupid stuff like this? Is Bibi going to sack Venice or something?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sack_of_Constantinople_(1204)

Hey Karl,

we have PLENTY of Muslims in the IDF and EVEN MORE in the Border Police

Yes the Circassians (being the tough Caucasians that they are) have historically been some of our toughest fighters too. Anybody who doesn’t take advantage of the martial prowess is wasting good material.

The only point of contention is YOUR refusal to stop, stopping Jews from praying on the Temple Mount.

I don’t refuse them anything. That land is supposed to be shared as well as the Holy sites. I think this is deplorable if it is happening – I’m sure accommodations can be made from a logistical perspective so the Palestinian authorities should make it so. I like Arab nationalism and supremacy about as much as I do the Jewish kind.

A citation about this legal restriction would be much appreciated.

Peace.

Not much lower probably because those descendants of the late Medieval hasids largely preserve the good genes (don’t hold me to precise knowledge of Jewish history but my understanding is that the selection for cognitive abilities ended by about 1650 when Askenazi population growth meant there were many more young people than could make money as bankers, merchants or estate managers and that at about the same time the Hasidic emotional forms of Judaism took off). The very large families of Haredim (I may be confused but aren’t they sometimes caĺled Ultra Orthodox?) are so inbred in Israel that they have lots of retarded children but thatof course doesn’t prevent the other children preserving and reproducing the good genes.

I would challenge you to justify the suggestion of trolling except that you are so clearly trying to divert attention from your having just blurted out whatever rubbish popped into your head on a subject of which you knew bugger all. You make no attempt to justify your crude bluster to which I was replying with questions designed to elucidate what you meant and in a later post make it even clearer that you are ignorant of what you claim to have an opinion about by failing to note that the Peace Prize is awarded by the Norwegians, not the Swedes!

Better to stop digging.

Hey KenH,

So Suleiman the Mag was a lover and not a fighter?

He was both; the number of concubines those sultans had – let me tell ya! I think the citation already states ‘Playing to Messianic expectations…’ which connotes ulterior motives.

I doubt it was because he was committed to religious tolerance and pluralism.

You have that wrong – those policies were good for commerce and taxation; the sultans took full advantage:
“For a long time the Ottoman empire was a relatively benign regime. In the sixteenth and seventeenth century, as the kings of Christian Europe were burning heretics at the stake, the sultans saw to it that the various religions in their empire were protected from each other…It was a regime of material self-interest, designed to increase the wealth and power of the Ottoman dynasty, but taxes were not very burdensome and some of the empire’s great wealth filtered back to the subject populations.”
https://my.vanderbilt.edu/robertdrews/files/2014/01/Chapter-Thirty.-The-Ottoman-Empire-Judaism-and-Eastern-Europe-to-1648.pdf

Spanish Jewish expellees were also welcomed by other Christian states like England, France, and Holland, so it wasn’t as if Christian Europe slammed the door shut on Jews.

Never implied that, but what does this have to do with the discussion of Palestine? I could also cite that the same Jews settled in Morocco and Egypt – but, who cares?

Some Muslims, blaming Jews for their own declining fortunes, committed atrocities against those making their journey to the coastal areas where ships would take them to other Christian states or places controlled by the Ottoman Empire.

Citation would be nice, but let’s take it at face value that ignorant Muslim mobs committed violence to minorities as they do today.

It would not be surprising that his predecessor, the Caliph Beyazid II, who took in Jewish refugees from the original ejection from Spain sent the royal navy to help pick them up under royal protection:
“During the years 1490 to 1497 Sultan Bayezid II accepted the exiled Jews from Italy, Spain and Portugal. In 1492 Kemal Reis and his fleet were sent to Cadiz to take the Jews in charge…The last lot of Jews gathered in the port of Cadiz faced a dilemma: Those who left port were attacked by the pirates, those who went on land were burned at the stake by the inquisition. About a thousand people waited in anguish. At the last minute arrived a small fleet manned by the Turkish admiral Kemal Reis who took the refugees under his protection.”
http://www.sephardicstudies.org/sultans1.html

He also issued an edict to stop harassment, which would not have been necessary had it not been a potential problem:
“The Grand Rabbi Moshe Kapsali (1420-1495), leader of the Jewish Nation, who resided in Constantinople and enjoyed favor of the Imperial Court, had obtained from the Sultan a firmanwhereby the ‘penalty of death’ was decreed against anyone who would dare to mistreat them (the Sephardi immigrants) or cause the slightest injury.”
History of the Turkish Jews and Sephardim: Memories of a Past Golden Age

Peace.

Hey Gabriel,

Citations would be nice.

But see my comment to KenH. If that happened or is happening – then it is a gross violation of the historic trust we have over administration of those lands and sites. The Muslims who are doing that are condemned by their own sacred law for those violations. As I said, I like Arab nationalism as much as Jewish kind.

But biting the hand that feeds you whilst lying about it is just what Muslims do, always and everywhere.

I keep on hearing similar claims about Jews – but I know better than to pay such nonsense any attention.

Peace.

Opinion is changing – I remember on a forum such as this when there would be only a couple of comments critical of Israel. Now, such comments are sometimes the majority – comments excusing/glorifying Israel’s racism and land-theft are becoming the minority, and a hysterical minority at that making little sense. Of course, people willing to comment on public forums, are not the whole electorate, but they are usually on the front edge of public opinion, and that is moving against Zionism. The politicians will lag, because they are not the smartest and they are always looking for a bribe (e.g. the Clintons). I wouldn’t put Trump in this category. When he figures out that backing the racism and the land-theft of the Zionists is a losing position, he will be the next target of Netanyahu’s temper tantrums.
The Sun is setting on racist Imperial Israel, and I don’t believe that any celestial being is going to interfere.

And it would be interesting to know how your suggested principles might apply

As far as I’m aware, Israel is the only active case of Western settler colonialism today. If you know of any other case, name it.

one of the favorite themes here. We didn’t directly gain anything from your Iraq or Afghanistan adventures. It is possible to posit second-order and third-order effects that were helpful to us….. however comma, i don’t think anyone can accurately measure those.

According to Profs. Mearsheimer and Walt:

Israel’s enthusiasm for war eventually led some of its allies in America to tell Israeli officials to damp down their hawkish rhetoric, lest the war look like it was being fought for Israel. In the fall of 2002, for example, a group of American political consultants known as the Israel Project circulated a six-page memorandum to key Israelis and pro-Israel leaders in the United States. The memo was titled “Talking about Iraq” and was intended as a guide for public statements about the war. “If your goal is regime change, you must be much more careful with your language because of the potential backlash. You do not want Americans to believe that the war on Iraq is being waged to protect Israel rather than to protect America.”

A citation about this legal restriction would be much appreciated.

I can give you a personal citation.

I visited the temple mount with a friend on the morning of his wedding. First we were searched, reasonably enough, for weapons. Then we had a second search for prayer articles. For instance, they checked my wallet to see that I didn’t have a copy of Psalms or grace after meals. Also, as normal, we weren’t allowed to take water with us since we would make a blessing on it. While on the temple mount we were surrounded by armed (Israeli) guards with their Uzis pointed inwards at us. I briefly kissed a rock with my hands and was a reprimanded by a soldier. All the time leering Arabs filmed us on behalf on one of the thousands of NGOs that infest this country whilst Arab women shouted abuse (my Arabic is remedial, but I know well enough what Yahud means). Whilst leaving I bowed slightly and was arrested. They let me go pretty quickly though I had to return and sign a statement saying I would never attempt to pray at the Temple Mount again.

Anyway, if you were generally curious about the ban on Jewish prayer on our temple that you stole, you could just use google. Instead of telling everyone how reasonable Muslims are and how their misbehavior is always someone else’s fault, why don’t you devote your energies to actually encouraging your fellow Muslims to actually acting reasonably. If you did that the following list would be a hell of a lot shorter.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ongoing_armed_conflicts

You could be right and I remembered that after my post, but also recall reading somewhere years ago that small number of them were still able to sneak into England between the Spanish expulsion and their formal readmission in 1656. Kind of like how the U.S. has laws against illegal aliens being here yet we have millions of them (likely tens of millions).

P.S. This is how Palestinians treat Jewish holy sites today whilst under this terrible occupation they find so onerous, but we should give them East Jerusalem too because of some stuff that Talha said about what happened 500 years ago.

http://www.takeapen.org/Takeapen/Templates/showpage.asp?DBID=1&LNGID=1&TMID=84&FID=954

Hey Gabriel,

Like I said, I don’t think Muslims have a right to prohibit Jews from praying at their sacred sites as long as it can be reasonably accommodated. So you were harassed by armed Israeli guards? Interesting…

on our temple that you stole

Ummm, that was the Romans. And then the Byzantines banned your folk for centuries until our folks beat their armies and garrisons back and let you back in. That is according to your own historians – see my citations. Feel free to cite evidence that Muslims historically prevented Jews from praying at the Temple Mount before all this modern-day Israeli nonsense erupted. Academic sources, please. And, as I keep stating, modern day Muslim governments should not be preventing Jews from praying there – it is not their right.

how reasonable Muslims are

Some are quite reasonable, some obviously aren’t.

how their misbehavior is always someone else’s fault

Our misbehavior is indeed our fault, your misbehavior is indeed yours.

That list would also be shorter if the US government did not have an idiotic foreign policy – often set by neo-Conservatives – who have quite a lot of your folk in their cadre. Or do you think Iraq just pulled itself apart out of the blue? We need to work on our murderous and callous people, you need to work on yours.

Peace.

I agree that during that era, Jews were better treated by Muslims than the Crusader Kingdoms.

They (jews) control all the central banks (except for North Korea, Iran and Cuba) and therefore control the world.

The Brits are building a steel mote around Rothschild in London. Got to protect the Jew and his money.

The city of London is planning to protect its financial district and skyscrapers with a “ring of steel”

The $6.14 million plan proposed by the Corporation of London would create a protective ring bordering Liverpool Street, the Bank of England and Fenchurch Street, the Telegraph reports. The area is home to some of the city’s newest and most dramatic skyscrapers.

https://sputniknews.com/europe/201612251048968047-new-ring-of-steel-london/

Sadly – you can only get this in the Russian media.

Peace — Art

Hey Gabriel,

Go up the thread and actually read what I said was the specific issue I had with Friedman’s statement and what I recommended that people should adhere to.

Don’t read a bunch of stuff into my statements that I never made and definitely don’t put words in my mouth – that is just decent etiquette.

But yes, if you or anybody else is going to try to rewrite history on this matter (including those who don’t recognize that rabid Arab nationalism – or extremism – of the post-colonial era had a lot to do with why Jews left their ancestral homelands like Iraq, Yemen, Algeria, etc.) – then yes, expect push back from me.

Peace

Due to Zionist 5th columnist occupying key positions at virtually every level within the US government, Israel has emerged the real winner of every US presidential election since Woodrow Wilson became president, followed by implementation of the Federal Reserve Act, World War One – the rest is history.

Never implied that, but what does this have to do with the discussion of Palestine?

Nothing but you brought the subject up. I was just trying to add a little balance to things.

Citation would be nice, but let’s take it at face value that ignorant Muslim mobs committed violence to minorities as they do today.

See the book titled The Last Crusader: Isabella of Spain for an account.
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1153174.Isabella_Of_Spain

Regarding the “sephardstudies.org” link, no doubt Turkish Muslim fleets picked up Jews at Cadiz and other places, but the rest of the account seems to be highly partisan and propagandistic (appears to be a Jewish source). I haven’t studied the minutiae of that time, but it’s likely the Jews made a payment to the Ottomans for their assistance or there was a quid pro quo arrangement of some sort since altruism simply wasn’t in the DNA of the Muslim Ottomans. And there’s no accounts I know of where Spanish Christians were waiting on shore with flammable material in which to summarily immolate Jews who didn’t board the Muslim vessels.

Makes for sexy atrocity propaganda, though.

Rarely repeated. Bill Clinton 1996 received a demanding letter that 7 middle east countries be destroyed for security of Israel. Then the same Chosen Ones, again sent a 1999 letter demanding a New Pearl Harbor Event take place to get Americans rallied up.
Need I say more what took place for the event to succeed?
The article is jest. Thanks!

Good points all.

See Netanyahu out on the end of a limb vigorously sawing.

Netanyahu snubs May over UN settlements vote

Israel’s prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, has apparently snubbed Theresa May over the UK’s support of a highly critical UN resolution condemning Israeli settlement building.
The move is the latest in a series of diplomatic retaliations by Israel against the countries that supported a UN security council resolution describing Jewish settlements in the occupied Palestinian territories as a “flagrant violation” of international law and an obstacle to peace.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/26/netanyahu-snubs-may-over-un-settlements-vote-israeli-media-says

Netanyahu Rebuffs France on Restarting Mideast Talks

JERUSALEM — Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel on Sunday rebuffed the French idea of restarting the Israeli-Palestinian peace process with international support and the backing of a United Nations Security Council resolution.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/22/world/middleeast/netanyahu-rejects-international-diktat-on-israeli-palestinian-peace-deal.html?_r=0

The Jews chief Zombie hard at work showing the contempt and loathing they have for humanity.

So you are only referring to the West Bank? And you put Israel with its UN recognised boundaries as on the same footing, though older, as Tibet with its Han settlers and West Irian with its Javanese settlers?

Why are you only concerned by European origin settlement?

Please look at the following article that is written by an expert many trust. Unfortunately, now I have a doubt about him. To me, he is a closet zionist like chomsky. He always protect Israel from exposure and goes to the extreme to hide the obvious facts.

The wars in the middle east and Africa is waged by the criminal zionist bankers supported by the zionist tribe for ‘greater Israel’, where Porter never talk about it. We never trust the criminal zionist tribe and their stooges.

http://original.antiwar.com/porter/2016/12/27/behind-real-us-strategic-blunder-syria/

People should be ready to wipe the pathological liar and zionist stooge trump from the political scene. Trump showed that he is a criminal like the tribe and zionist bankers and their servants.
What the Obama regime did on UN resolution was toooooooooooo little and tooooooooooooo
late. He was a zionist servant to the bone. Obama is not a friend of Sunnis, as Porter suggest, he is a war criminal.

No, I’m referring to Palestine. I don’t think the UN vote was legitimate.

West had been doing it for centuries, till in the second part of the last century colonialism collapsed, was condemned as an unacceptable practice, and the colonial period ended (except in Palestine), with official proclamation of all peoples’ right to self-determination. Tibet is a province of China, and Tibetans are equal Chinese citizens, so I don’t think the concept of colonialism is applicable there.

If you voted for Trump, you are responsible for this. I am a non- interventionist libertarian, but was able to recognize a dangerous, juvenile psychopath as more dangerous than anything or anyone else.

It ought not to be forgotten that egghead was the one who doxxed vinteuil.

[Ummm, that was the Romans. And then the Byzantines banned your folk for centuries until our folks beat their armies and garrisons back and let you back in. That is according to your own historians – see my citations.]

I’m afraid this is nonsense, Talha. In rightfully rejecting Zionist slander against Muslims, you should not be ready to accept Zionist slander against anybody else.

Hey KenH,

but the rest of the account seems to be highly partisan and propagandistic

Possibly, beacuse it does seem dramatic, but there is no doubt – as you said – that the Ottoman navy helped pick up Jewish refugees.

but it’s likely the Jews made a payment to the Ottomans for their assistance or there was a quid pro quo arrangement of some sort

Conjecture and opinion, which I will file with the rest unless you have a source.

since altruism simply wasn’t in the DNA of the Muslim Ottomans

I already cited a source mentioning that Ottomans (like most monarchs – Muslim and not) were often only concerned with their own self interest. Which is why some of them (like other monarchs – Muslim and not) would assassinate kin to gain the throne:
“Before then, Ottoman succession had been governed by the “law of fratricide” drawn up by Mehmed II in the middle of the 15th century. Under the terms of this remarkable piece of legislation, whichever member of the ruling dynasty succeeded in seizing the throne on the death of the old sultan was not merely permitted, but enjoined, to murder all his brothers (together with any inconvenient uncles and cousins) in order to reduce the risk of subsequent rebellion and civil war. Although it was not invariably applied, Mehmed’s law resulted in the deaths of at least 80 members of the House of Osman over a period of 150 years.”
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-ottoman-empires-life-or-death-race-164064882/#ksWHghfkEhXOMhSl.99

No doubt these were grim men – and not just ‘Selim the Grim’.

That’s why we don’t look to them, but rather people like Umar al-Khattab (ra) from the first generation for guidance on things like this. If the Ottoman behavior comports, cool – if not, we throw it away.

As for what was truly in the heart of Sultan Beyazid II when he made his decrees, only God (and apparently you) can know.

Peace.

Angry US born Jew trashes America – calls America shameful.

US born Israeli ambassador: US led UN ‘gang-up’ on Israel settlement vote:

Washington (AFP) – The White House orchestrated a “gang-up” against Israel on last week’s UN settlement vote, its ambassador to Washington said Monday, in the latest sign of anger between the longtime allies.

Israel’s ambassador Ron Dermer said in an interview with CNN that his government plans to show evidence of the alleged US maneuvering in due time.

“What is outrageous is that the United States was actually behind that gang-up. I think it was a very sad day, really a shameful chapter,” the Israeli diplomat told CNN.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-led-un-gang-israel-settlement-vote-ambassador-160017776.html

This tribe of Zionist Jew Zombies will say anything to cover up their evil – no relationship is sacred to them. After all that we have done, and are doing for them, they call us “shameful.”

They are no friend – they see no friends – they see people they can manipulate – Jews are truly a people apart.

Hey 5371,

Could you elaborate, please? I definitely don’t want to slander anybody.

I thought it was well known that the Romans besieged Jerusalem and destroyed the temple way back in the first century. Isn’t that acknowledged by Roman accounts? I guess if you mean; way back then, everyone stole from everyone else as long as they had the army to back them up, in which case I understand where you are coming from.

And regarding the Muslims letting the Jews back into Jerusalem; our own historical sources indicate the Christians asked them not to be let in according to the terms of surrender.

So I don’t want to be a mouth piece for Zionism, but I thought these two things are fairly universally recognized. I’ll readily acknowledge my error if you have a sound source.

Peace.

that was beautiful

Anyone who believed that Trump was pro America over the jew welfare state when Trump has nothing but Jewish grandchildren is a complete imbecile or traitor and that includes Patrick J Buchanan.

It is known as Eretz Israel.

So I don’t want to be a mouth piece for Zionism

Heaven forbid that you would defend a nation state that mixes the religious with the secular.

In Article 1, Section 8, Clause 5 of the U.S. Constitution, it specifically confers on Congress the express powers to coin money and regulate the value of it.

It does not grant the power to establish a private central bank (with stock holders as the owners).

At quick glance, it looks as if there are only lawsuits on the basis of paper money vs. coins. The constitution cites coinage and some legal cases say paper legal tender is unconstitutional.

My hunch is that any serious legal threat to the Federal Reserve would be met with loss of life.

Probably not, Lot.

A recent example was Pope Pius X’s refusal to acquiesce to Herzl’s demand that the Church support a Jewish state in Palestine.

When all Jews around the world are accused of being Zionists and instruments of ersatz Israel, the game is exactly the same game played by Señor Netanyahu and his ilk, whose recent Papal Bull, for example, just called for all “Jews” to leave France.

Wonder if that includes Sarkozy?

Probably at least half the posters that post such trash are paid and unpaid Israeli agents. The other half–well, what they are is pretty apparent as well, even those who are part of the new Trumpist White Nationalist Zionist Coalition, along with the likes of Zionist Fundamentalist “Christians” like the most Reverend Hagee.

There’s one born every minute indeed.

“High Intelligence Quotient” is three words.

Ersatz eretz Latter Day Israel, to be exact.

“Palestine had a lot of underused land when the first Zionists arrived”

You realize, one is sure, that is straight John Locke, right? “Improvement”, jeje.

Will, say, Sandburg Village and Trump Tower be airlifted or carried by ship to ersatz Israel, or is replicating them sufficient, as is now the case?

The younger Netanyahu, one suspects, was already covertly a bit jealous of his close friend Señor Trump, during the latter’s salad days. But he picked up enough, obviously, to master a strictly State Capitalist US-subsidized version of real estate speculation, eh?

Did Señor Trump pick up the “seduction by furniture store shopping” from Señor Bibi, do you think?

Hey iffen,

I have far, far less problems with that than I do with a state based on ethno-centrism or ethno-superiority. Like I said – if a proposed Palestinian state is simply a carbon copy of another corrupt militarized Arab nation state then what is that worth? Not much to me.

Read simply about Iraqi Jews (an ancient community that is gone now) – just the excerpt of the first chapter (especially that poem):
“As the book reveals, the ultimate displacement of this community was not the result of a perpetual persecution on the part of their Iraqi compatriots, but rather the outcome of misguided state policies during the late 1940s and early 1950s. Sadly, from a dominant mood of coexistence, friendship, and partnership, the impossibility of Arab-Jewish coexistence became the prevailing narrative in the region—and the dominant narrative we have come to know today.”
http://www.sup.org/books/title/?id=20419

“Jews were an integral part of Iraqi society from the centuries it existed as part of the Ottoman Empire, through the British-Arab alliance following World War I that resulted in its creation as an independent state. King Faisal’s benevolent rule over this new state fostered an atmosphere of tolerance and equality which ended abruptly with his death in 1933, after which rising anti-Jewish and Pan-Arabic sentiment led to restrictions on all phases of Jewish life, culminating in the establishment of a pro-Nazi government and a notorious deadly pogrom against the Jews known as the Farhoud in 1941.”
http://cs.nyu.edu/shasha/papers/iraqlastjews.html

http://www.bintjbeil.com/E/occupation/ameu_iraqjews.html

This is what the evil twins of Arab and Jewish nationalism (Zionism) have wrought – the destruction of an ancient (we’re talking from Babylonian times) distinct identity (how long do you suppose it will survive in Israel before it disappears) – and this is not the only one. The only distinct one having survived is probably that of the Morocco.

People say this is progress…I have my doubts.

Peace.

Right–the holy land should be occupied by Jews who denigrate Jesus, not by Muslims who honor Jesus as a might prophet. Sounds like Jewish and Trump logic…

No-one ever banned Jews from Palestine. Hadrian seems to have banned them from Jerusalem after the Bar-Kochba revolt in 135 AD, but the prohibition was reversed within a generation.

“We didn’t directly gain anything from your Iraq or Afghanistan adventures.”

Ah, “directly” no doubt cloaking in silence, say, Iraq’s support and subsidies to Palestinians, the Palestinian guest workers in Kuwait, etc., right?

It is accurate to say, however, that many of the level-headed Israeli officials in and out of government thought that the US coalitions’ marches upcountry, during both wars against Iraq, were incredibly stupid and could backfire.

Most of these, however, wanted a US attack on Iran instead.

Hey 5371,

Correct – I thought I was specific about Jerusalem. I thought that the reversal was only to permit worship once in a while at the site of the temple but not residency, no?

Peace.

Who invented the concept, and who promoted it, and who profits from administering these so called “intelligence” tests?

Answer: The same people who, during the process of compiling the Old and New Testaments, appointed themselves the Chosen Ones, the rightful owners of Palestine, plus assigned themselves the designated rulers of all nations of the earth. It’s all right there in black and white. Read it in your spare time.

Bravo.

You missed, in fact, the fact that international Jewry is solely responsible for the tricked, bribed, forced legislation across the White western world which admits millions of uneducated, illiterate, unassimilable, racist, White-hating Moslems without passports, to drain White economies with fraudulent welfare claims, rape and traffic White females for Moslem prostitution and secret pig-god sacrifice, fund blood-soaked deranged maniacs to build and detonate bombs in White population centres, and beyond all of that fashion legislation which curtails and severely punishes free speech by all those openly critical of these things.

Add to that the fact that international Jewry has been engaged in a decades-long war of direct, subtle cultural Marxist propaganda via an endless stream of advertising, fashion and cinema content corruption, LGBT filth and shameless mass media lies, all designed to weaken, corrupt, undermine and destroy the morality and the morale of once-Christian White nations, and you begin to grasp the bigger picture, and the longer game.

Now that you have understood that Jews, as they have always been, are the curse of the earth, try furthering your education and knowledge of the true depths of their nation-wrecking evil, by going here:

http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2016/12/philip-giraldi-on-the-anti-semitism-awareness-act/

It is awesome to watch Jewish vote going Democrat regularly then being fucked up the ass by a crowbar by Obama.
As Maxwell Smart said, “loving every minute of it”.

There was no bar on residency.

So Obama allowed a toothless symbolic resolution, apparently favoured even by most American Jews, to pass the SC. What good will that do?

What has happened to Rehmat? I haven’t seen him recently.

“What good will that do?” – It helps Trump.

And what was Hillary? Oh I guess you voted for that know-nothing Johnson?

Hey 5371,

No problem – but this contradicts many academic sources that I’ve read. Can you provide just one source? I’m not trying to be difficult, if you have a solid source with an alternative narrative, I would actually welcome being exposed to it honestly.

Peace.

Trump made a lot of tempestuous declarations during election time. He is now backing off most of them or at least adding a grain of salt.
For Trump it seems that the mantra is ” Show me the money”
He will not give free ‘gifts’ to Israel anymore. Israel is a rich country and can pay. So if Trump gives money to Israel he will make sure he gets something worth it in return.
What can Israel give back to Trump now that the elections is over and the Jewish voters, in majority democrats lost? More support from the Congress? What else?
Well, Trump wants to be the president who solve the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, a conflict largely responsible for the violent anti-americanism in the region. That anti-americanism is the source of Al Qaedan, ISIS and other Islamist groups.
Trump will do all he can to eliminate such extremists but he will want to go to the root: who are funding them and how to stop its proliferation. Israel’s abuses on Palestinians feeds Islamist extremist. He will have to deal with that decisively.
Therefore I expect Trump to be much tougher on Israel than the Obama administration.
Israel may come to regret Obama who was just a naive and powerless enemy

I wondered the same thing a while back – no whisper from him (well, he wasn’t one for whispering) since a month back. iffen and I were speculating that he came across Sherman and, well…Sherman is still around…

But he’s still blogging at his old stomping grounds.

Peace.

Conjecture and opinion, which I will file with the rest unless you have a source.

Yes, and I don’t think I said otherwise. But I know enough about that era to know that there were no free lunches and the Ottoman empire wasn’t exactly the international red cross.

Of course, I don’t want to single out the Ottomans too much because the British Empire had their warts, too. However, the Brits never murdered 1.5 million people in cold blood, but I digress.

Mr Talha: neither I nor any friend of mine has ever done “egghead…” any harm. I do not even know who he is.

BTW – for me, this is no longer an “anonymous forum.”

I believe I am the only poster here who has ever been treated like this.

“I believe I am the only poster here who has ever been treated like this.”

I do not know the story. What happened?

However, the Brits never murdered 1.5 million people in cold blood, but I digress.

If you include the Greeks and Syrians, the number swells to 3.5 million:

GREEKS
1914 400,000 conscripts perished in forced labor brigades
1922 100,000 massacred or burned alive in Smyrna
1916-1922 350,000 Pontions massacred or killed during forced deportations
1914-1922 900,000 perish from maltreatment, starvation and massacres; total of all other areas of Asia Minor
TOTAL: 1,750,000 Greek Christians martyred 1914-1922

ARMENIANS
1894-1896 300,000 massacred
1915-1916 1,500,000 perish in massacres and forced deportations (with subsidiaries to 1923)
1922 30,000 massacred or burned alive in Smyrna
TOTAL: 1,800,000 Armenian Christians martyred 1894-1923

SYRIANS AND NESTORIANS
1915-1917 100,000

http://www.serfes.org/orthodox/memoryof.htm

However, the Brits never murdered 1.5 million people in cold blood, but I digress.

No, but they might have been a party to the starvation of plenty more (the jury is still out on this one as far as numbers and intentions – so keep your eyes on it) – but that’s OK because as Churchill said:
“The famine was their own fault for breeding like rabbits.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/worst-atrocities-british-empire-amritsar-boer-war-concentration-camp-mau-mau-a6821756.html

But, as to the Ottomans…if you read the details on the history, you will know this was not the work of the Ottoman sultans nor the Muslim scholarship. In fact, the sultan had been effectively deposed and replaced by the ‘Three Pashas’ that ran the empire and ushered in an era of nationalist Turkification under the secular-modern ‘Committee of Union and Progress’. This led to both the Armenian Genocide as well as a host of other horrific events and kick-started the Arab revolts against the modernist reforms as threats to their religion and traditions.

The Armenians recognize this:
“The Young Turks were the perpetrators of the Armenian Genocide….. The most ideologically committed party in the entire movement, the CUP espoused a form of Turkish nationalism which was xenophobic and exclusionary in its thinking. Its policies threatened to undo the tattered fabric of a multi-ethnic and multi-religious society. Taking advantage of the political confusion reigning in the aftermath of the First Balkan War which the Ottoman Empire lost in 1912 to its former subject states, the CUP seized power in a coup d’etat in January 1913.”
http://www.armenian-genocide.org/young_turks.html

Which is why Armenian nationalists hunted them down like dogs and assassinated them – since they had sought exile in European countries:

Those that were prosecuted and were sentenced to death by the Ottomans once the sultan was back in charge (again, same Armenian site as above):
“The post-war Ottoman government convened tribunals in 1919 to hear testimony on the conduct of the war and the implementation of the Armenian Genocide. While many second rank figures were prosecuted individually, the party as a whole was indicted for the crimes of conspiracy and massacre. The verdicts found the accused guilty of capital crimes, but the principal culprits were only tried in absentia.”

And whoever was around had their death sentence signed off by the Grand Mufti:
“When the Sultan received the papers for signature the day after Kemal’s conviction, already sanctioned by the grand vizier and the defense minister, the monarch hesitated. He wanted Shiekh ul-Islam to issue and appropriate fatwa…This version was eventually composed and incorporated in a new fatwa bearing Seikh ul-Islam Mustafa Sabri’s signature.”
Judgment At Istanbul: The Armenian Genocide Trials

So – it was actually the weakening of the Ottoman caliphate and the rise of a deplorable Turkish-nationalist modernism that led to the massacres…and a boat load of other stuff we are still talking about on this thread.

Peace.

Hey vinteuil,

I understand – which is why I always advocate for people to keep their cool and just hold discussions no different than you would if you were sitting across the person.

Peace.

Another reason why I abhor ethnic nationalism.

I don’t believe many if any “Trumpists” ever claimed he would be a consistent anti-Zionist, a consistent protectionist, a consistent nativist, a consistent isolationist etc. What they did claim is, he that he went much further in the direction of economic nationalism ,ethno-nationalism, non-interventionism than any other candidate. Along with bringing an element of potential chaos to the mix, which could be advantageous. Along with freeing Russia’s hand to bring some stability to the Mideast, in part by occasioning opportunities for Hezbollah and Iran and other freedom fighting forces to do their thing.

Hey Geo,

No doubt about that – though some of the figures look a bit inflated. As the Ottoman Empire was spiraling downwards it was getting quite desperate to maintain control (especially at the fringes where it was afraid of losing land to other empires like Russia) and became (as I’ve mentioned before) hyper-violent. Is it surprising or unique to the Ottomans? Possibly, with the right combo of having an alpha group and modernized weaponry to make massacres more effective. Nations and empires that are pulled apart in civil wars and strife get fairly violent along ethnic and religious lines – even in modern times, Yugoslavia being an example.

Peace.

Nations and empires that are pulled apart in civil wars and strife get fairly violent along ethnic and religious lines – even in modern times, Yugoslavia being an example.

Hey, Talha. If I didn’t know better, I ‘d think you were rationalizing genocide.

Here’s an exchange I once had with Linh Dinh:

Mr. [Dinh], given your reluctance to endorse their 2007 resolution, my sense is the International Association of Geneocide Scholars had someone like you in mind when they wrote this about Armenian Genocide deniers, which applies equally well to deniers of their 2007 resolution:

We note that there may be differing interpretations of how and why the Armenian Genocide happened, but to deny its factual and moral reality as genocide is not to engage in scholarship but in propaganda and efforts to absolve the perpetrator, blame the victims, and erase the ethical meaning of this history.

Peace

Tibet used to be an independent country with a Tibetan, not Han, population (indeed there was once some sort of Tibetan empire extending to the Bay of Bengal if my memory is correct) so when did it become a province of China and did it remain a province of China without self determination without interruption ever after (if you are referring to some pre 1951 event)?

What makes it OK to allow Tibetans to be reduced to a minority in their own province?

What do you say about Taiwan which was colonised by the Japanese in the 1890s and then the Nationalist refugees in 1949? What is your comparative analysis of that situation?

And of the Javanese settlements on West Irian land since 1961? (And how does it compare with the once claimed and colonised but now independent Timor L’Este? ).

Geo,

You obviously take pride in your questions. How about answering one for us. Where do you stand on Holocaust denial?

>It is known as Eretz Israel.

…and includes these United States.

Where do you stand on Holocaust denial?

Sam put this same question to me once before. I downloaded a number of primary sources that are related to this issue but haven’t had the opportunity to read them, yet. What I can say is this, while there may be disputes about the exact number that perished, the means by which they were disposed, and whether there were explicit orders given to carry it out, there is no disputing that significant numbers of Jews were rounded up and placed in concentration camps and that significant numbers perished.

The big difference of course, is that we made the indigenous people of the US full citizens. Israel never made the Palestinians in the occupied territories full citizens. See how simple it is to debunk Zionist tropes?

Hey Geo,

Rationalizing genocide? Yes.

Meaning, what were the conditions to set the events in motion such that they turned out the way they did given the circumstances especially at that particular time in Ottoman history? Unfortunately, ‘population transfer’ was in vogue at that time when dealing with resisting populations; Russians/Circassians, US/Native Americans, British/Boers, and later Italians/Libyans, etc. Forensics really – since it is good to learn from the tragic events of the past.

Justifying genocide? No.

Peace.

Mr. Trump, Stop Being An Ass. America First and Support for Israel Are Polar Opposites.
by Michael Scheuer, former CIA intelligence officer(22 years) , American blogger, author, foreign policy critic, and political analyst. He is currently an adjunct professor at Georgetown University’s Center for Peace and Security Studies.

Mr. Trump, stop being played as a dumb ass by Jewish-Americans. Every American soldier, Marine, and U.S. civilian who has died or been wounded or maimed since Osama bin Laden declared war on the United States in 1996 has been the victim — in significant part — of the record of slavish and largely unquestioning U.S. support for Israel’s national security interests.

This kind of policy requires the utter abandonment of all the tenets inherent in the concept of America First. Together, your selection for ambassador to Israel — a supporter of West Bank settlements; that is, the brazen theft of Palestinian land — and your promise to move the U.S. embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem will do four disastrous things: they will kill and maim more U.S. military personnel; decrease U.S. national security; prolong America’s Islam war by decades; and irreparably rupture the trust of your political base’s faith in your promise of putting America first. Proceed in the direction you are setting and you will be from the first day of your presidency nothing more than one more post-1945 U.S. president who is a slave to Israel’s national security interests, and the hapless pawn of disloyal Jewish Americans, their organizations, and their journals.

[…]The American republic was not formed to be the cats-paw of any foreign power — especially one irrelevant to U.S. interests, like Israel — or any disloyal gaggle of Americans. Neither is there anything manly or self-respecting in you authorizing such Israel First goals as are signified by your ambassadorial choice and the plan to move the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem.[…]
It is time, Mr. Trump, to stop playing the fool for Israel, Israel First, the Neoconservatives, and at U.S. Congress that is controlled by all three.

A prolonged and ultimately losing war with Islam or America First, Mr. Trump? It’s up to you.

Full article @
http://non-intervention.com/
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/46121.htm

geokat “What I can say is this, while there may be disputes about the exact number that perished, the means by which they were disposed, and whether there were explicit orders given to carry it out, there is no disputing that significant numbers of Jews were rounded up and placed in concentration camps and that significant numbers perished.”

Well, the holocaust revisionists do NOT dispute any of the above, of course. BUT, the above does NOT ‘The Holocaust’ make. The official version is rotten, a huge hoax, really.

As Prof.T.Dalton explained:

There are, in fact, three essential elements to the event called the Holocaust:
(1) intention to mass murder the Jews, by Hitler and the Nazi elite;
(2) the use of gas chambers(the extermination camps & gas vans); and
(3) the 6 million deaths.

If any one of these three should undergo substantial revision, then, technically speaking, we no longer have “The Holocaust”—at least, not in any meaningful sense. (Broadly speaking, of course, any mass fatality is a holocaust.) Holocaust revisionism contends that, not one, but all three of these points are grossly in error, and thus that “The Holocaust,” as such, did not occur. Obviously, this is not to deny that a tragedy happened to the Jews, nor that many thousands died, directly and indirectly, as a result of the war. But the conventional account is an extreme exaggeration.

If you set about studying the issue in depth, then you have to actually read what the other side is saying… otherwise there is no real point.

“He”? Is it all done by one obsessive? As you may recall I have more than once referred to the “Rehmat syndicate” (could have been “task force”). And to the youths he employs in Islamabad. Of course I don’t know but sometimes the Rehmat stuff is so madly illogical, unfactual and unrelated to what it purports to reply to that it seems impossible that it could be the work of a professionally educated adult.

Assange: Forget Russia,The Real Threat to America comes from Israel and the Israel Lobby

“Russian actions on its own doorstep in Eastern Europe do not in fact threaten the United States or any actual vital interest. Nor does Moscow threaten the U.S. through its intervention on behalf of the Syrian government in the Middle East.”

said Assange from his refuge in the Ecuador Embassy in London.

“however, another country that has interfered in U.S. elections, has endangered Americans living or working overseas and has corrupted America’s legislative and executive branches. It has exploited that corruption to initiate legislation favorable to itself, has promoted unnecessary and unwinnable wars and has stolen American technology and military secrets. Its ready access to the mainstream media to spread its own propaganda provides it with cover for its actions and it accomplishes all that and more through the agency of a powerful and well-funded domestic lobby that oddly is not subject to the accountability afforded by the Foreign Agents Registration Act (FARA) of 1938 even though it manifestly works on behalf of a foreign government. That country is, of course, Israel“

> There is no way the Muslim world will stand by if Israelis intend to

based on the EVIDENCE, what the “Muslim world” wants, is to turn Europe into the eastern-most suburb of Karachi

Really??! You’ve got to be joking! Such actions you mentioned are a serious breach of the 1949 Geneva Conventions. The last Zionist attack on Gaza was on civilians and civilian infrastructure. No American soldiers will even be used for such blatant atrocities.
You know quite well that in the scenario you just mentioned, the vast majority of casualties would be civilians. The war against Gaza proved that.
Modern Israel’s not even a legitimate state, according to the Torah. It’s the HQ of the Rothschild Khazar Mafia. According to the Torah, the Jews of 1st and 2nd Century Israel had defied God’s Commandments to the point wherein the occupying Romans destroyed Jerusalem and the 2nd Temple and scattered the inhabitants throughout the edges of the Roman Empire as punishment for their defiance. In the Torah, there’s a passage that even states that after the dispersion and the end of Biblical Israel, God forbade the restoration of the Israeli Kingdom; that Israel was to exist in spirit only.

MUST READ
The Staggering Cost of Israel to Americans
This report was produced by If Americans Knew analysts, particularly Pamela Olson, a President’s Scholar at Stanford University 1998-2002 with a major in Physics, a minor in Political Science.
By Pamela Olson / http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article34485.htm

[…]
There are many more potential categories of costs that are even more difficult to quantify. All in all, Stauffer estimates that Israel cost the US about $1.6 trillion between 1973 and 2003 alone—more than twice the cost of the Vietnam war.[23]
[Dr. Thomas Stauffer, a Harvard economist and Middle East studies professor who twice served in the Executive Office of the President, wrote a comprehensive report about all components of the alliance with Israel’s cost to American taxpayers for the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs in 2003]

Costs since Stauffer’s study in 2003

Nobel Prize-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz and Harvard professor Linda Bilmes put the cost of the Iraq War at over $3 trillion, and incalculably more if you take into account the opportunity costs of the resources spent on this unproductive war. For example, higher oil prices due to the war have had a devastating impact on America’s economy, and so have the surging federal debt and the servicing of that debt. Without the war, the 2008 financial crisis almost certainly would not have been as severe, and the Afghanistan war most likely would have been shorter, cheaper, and more effective.[29] { However in 2010 Professors Stiglitz and Bilmes revised this estimate upwards: “Writing in these pages in early 2008, we put the total cost to the United States of the Iraq war at $3 trillion. This price tag dwarfed previous estimates, including the Bush administration’s 2003 projections of a $50 billion to $60 billion war. But today, as the United States ends combat in Iraq , it appears that our $3 trillion estimate (which accounted for both government expenses and the war’s broader impact on the U.S. economy) was, if anything, too low… There is no question that the Iraq war added substantially to the federal debt. This was the first time in American history that the government cut taxes as it went to war. The result: a war completely funded by borrowing. U.S. debt soared from $6.4 trillion in March 2003 to $10 trillion in 2008 (before the financial crisis); at least a quarter of that increase is directly attributable to the war. And that doesn’t include future health care and disability payments for veterans, which will add another half-trillion dollars to the debt.” [4]. }
[…]
The Israel lobby and partisans are currently gunning for a war with Iran with the same zeal they showed in the run-up to the 2003 invasion of Iraq.[30] By all estimates, the costs of a war with Iran will be much higher than the Iraq war. In addition to the loss of life, analysts predict, for example, that if Iran’s oil production were taken out of the world market, gas prices would rise 25-70 percent.

Refer to the Luechter Report where engineer Fred Leuchter proved that the facilities alleged to be gas chambers were proven to be technically insufficient for the task. Gas chambers are the linchpin of Jewish holocaust allegations that six million were systematically exterminated. If there were no gas chambers then six million Jews did not perish.

No doubt some Jews were deliberately killed but mostly at the end of the war when the German command structure completely broke down and concentration camp guards blamed Jews for the horrors befalling Germany and meted out their own brand of justice.

The official story if full of holes and anomalies which is a big reason Jews overreact when anyone attempts to question or scrutinize the claims. It’s also reason why Europeans are forbidden from asking questions lest they be thrown in prison.

A good starting point to understand the tragedy that befell the Palestinians through the creation of the unlawful zio squatter entity of israel, is to read the book written by Israeli Historian Ilan Pappe, titled:
‘The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine’.

Renowned Israeli historian, Ilan Pappe’s groundbreaking book revisits the formation of the State of Israel. Between 1947 and 1949, over 400 Palestinian villages were deliberately destroyed, civilians were massacred and around a million men, women, and children were expelled from their homes at gunpoint.

That is an important point of course, but there is much more…
The zio propagandists on the net use a set of tactics in order to justify the creation of the artificial zionist entity called Israel.
One thing these creeps do is they dishonestly make ample use of false analogies, i.e, the apple and orange type of comparison.
One such tactic is to say that the zionists won the land by conquest and expelled the indigenous people just like what white settlers did to the amerindians in Zamerica. Except this is BS on so many levels;
I’ll address, for now, only the most obvious one:
There is the obvious problem of anachronism; what the American settlers did back in the 18/19th century, though morally reprehensible, was not yet subjected to International Law, as was already the case with the post WWII creation of the zio entity.
By then, to take other people’s land by force of arms and ethnically cleanse them from it was no longer acceptable.
Put it another way; if today there were still a large territory inhabited by amerindians in North America and ZUSA tried to take it by force of arms and expell the natives, this would be viewed as a crime by international law and the political costs would probably make it impossible to carry out.
Things have changed, but the zio scum of the hasbara brigade, use such ruses to pretend that the same rules which applied in the 18th century, apply today. They do not.

(sigh) yes Karl – that’s what we all want. We do not like the fact that overly spicy oily curry is not the only menu option in the West. You got us – I will have to tell our elders we have been found out.

Peace.

Even my slight knowledge of the Bible and of Jewish history suggests that you are trolling with blatant and obvious inaccuracies just to annoy. The Torah is the original five books of Moses all in final form by 500 BC so where is there any refetence to the Roman destruction of the Second Temple and associated events?

And the nonsense about the Khazars is surely beyond its use by date. Clue to not believing it in the first instance – long before DNA evidence provided conclusive proof – how come Ashkenazim spoke a German dialect and not any language remotely related to that of the Khazars?

The Jewish Diaspora began long before the destruction of Jerusalem and well before the capture of Jerusalem by Vespasian and Titus as well.

Hey WoO,

I tried to ask him/them to be more coherent and less belligerent on multiple occasions (especially since vicious attacks lead to vicious and angry responses like #138). But it didn’t work. Often, I felt like I was cleaning up some messes he/they would make.

But, I’m beginning to learn from that. I’m going to start cutting back on responding to simply emotional comments – seems not worth the effort. If someone is not going to put in the honest effort to give me something to work with – ie. type up simply lazy responses, it’s not worth my time to respond. Otherwise you end up with this:
https://xkcd.com/386/

I also have to assume better of the people on this forum that they can spot an opinionated person with a big mouth, but little knowledge of the subject they are posting on.

Peace.

I do not understand why America should support Israel.
Israel is militarily stronger than any country in region.
Let it take care of itself without the US constantly anguishing over whether America is doing enough.
Why does Israel of all nations in the world deserve US support?
It’s not even a Christian state.
US support is due only to Jewish political strength in the US.
And frankly, let the Palestinians, who have support among the Arab and Muslim nations and their hundreds of millions of people, come to an agreement with Israel.
Leave the US out of it.
Americans are sick and tired of Israel being their #1 priority.

The so-called Roman Treaty with the Maccabees in BC 161 has been doubted as a forgery, but the Romans were heavily involved in conflicts with the Seleucids and it is not hard to accept that Maccabeus sent an embassy to the Roman Senate.

How formal the treaty may have been is a different question. Likely the Senate issued a senatusconsultum recognizing the Maccabeus and the rebels as socii et amici populi Romani. Certainly I Maccabbees 8 knows the proper formula.

Why do you say Fred Luechter “proved” anything when he has no relevant qualifications acceptable to a court hearing expert evidence and a reputation as an “execution technician” for attempting shakedowns?

Indeed why do you say gas chambers are the “lynchpin” etc when Auschwicz, which is the only site your phony expert Fred Luechter visited accounts for no more than one million deaths?

Thanks for the link 🙂

Interesting but I’m not sure how it relates to Eileen Kuch’s possibly provocative pretence of ignorance that I was having a shot at.

Another reason why I abhor ethnic nationalism.

what about for Palestinians?

Peace

Tibet used to be an independent country

It was an independent country for a while, but now it’s part of China. Same as California in the US. People within China are all full-fledged citizens, and they migrate freely from province to province, and this is perfectly normal and has nothing to do with colonialism.

Now, of course some Tibetans – by which I mean those fully integrated in the Tibetan society – might (and probably do) want independence (just like some Californians, Scots, Catalonians, etc). So they will try to organize a secessionist movement, and of course the central government is likely to resist it. There will be a political, and perhaps even an armed struggle, and all that. But this is not colonialism, this is secessionism. So, at this point, you’re just trying to obfuscate…

Didn’t we experience the same schema with Obama? Right! First all these announcement what they will do and than later comes always the betrayal. Poor Palestinians they will suffer more.

I do not understand why America should support Israel.

Isn’t this the fundamental question? And aren’t fundamental questions supposed to be debated by the people’s representatives BEFORE a decision is taken to go in one direction or another? Can anyone tell me if this debate ever took place in the US Congress? Oh, sure the congress would pass separate pieces of legislation to authorize an attack on this country or that, but they never put the fundamental question of whether it is in America’s interest to spend $6 trillion to support the Zionist state. Rather than being truthful with the American people, they ridiculed Ron Paul for suggesting the attacks on 9/11 were motivated by US foreign policy and suggesting, instead, it was b/c “they hate us for our freedoms.”

If the political institutions are not willing to discuss these fundamental questions, what’s the point of having them?

P.S. There has been a lot of chatter lately that the power of The Lobby is waning. I don’t know how true that is, but I can tell you when we can be certain that The Lobby has truly lost its influence… and that’s when most online commenters no longer have to use anonymous handles. Can you even imagine that day arriving?

[YHWH-cult and Jesus-cult are indigenous to Eretz Israel. We all agree on that]

No we don’t.

Friedman’s statement has an obvious meaning: Jerusalem is the capital of Israel and should not be the capital of any other country. The fact that you would interpret this as him advocating expelling Muslims or denying them access to their holy sites is a clear and obvious example of paranoid projection. Whenever Muslims have the chance they deny Jews access to their holy sites, or actually destroy them.

As for stealing our temple. It’s a fact, you built a Mosque on the site of our Temple. You seem to think this kind of behaviour (like claiming Moses is a prophet of Islam and we falsified our scriptures to cover this up) is normal. It’s not normal. Obviously, you didn’t take the physical patch of land from us, but you took it from us by building a Mosque there and claiming it as a holy site for your religion.

To give you an analogy. Imagine that your worst nightmares came true and Mecca was conquered by Israel which, after a few pesky rebellions ruthlessly suppresses the Islamic religion and deports large swathes of the Muslim population. Then hundreds of years later Mecca was conquered by Japan, which built a Shinto shrine on top of the Kaaba and claimed that Muhammed was a prophet of Shintoism, whilst easing up restrictions of Muslims somewhat. Hundreds of years later Muslims reconquered Mecca, but the Japanese owners of the Kaaba used their international connections to maintain ownership of the Kaaba forbidding Muslims to pray there. Occasionally, in response to Muslims trying to visit the Kaaba, Shinto extremists will stab some old Mulsims lady walking down the street, cheered on by “moderate” Shinto media organisations like this one.

Whenever Muslims have the chance they deny Jews access to their holy sites, or actually destroy them.

Now, that’s just nonsense, the usual ethnocentric self-pitying narrative. Before Zionist madmen came to the scene and ruined the place for everybody, all three religions and a multitude of ethnic self-identification groups co-existed just fine in Palestine in general and Jerusalem in particular. For hundreds of years.

Before the Zionist madmen came along, Palestine was sparsely populated and underdeveloped backwater whose population – Jewish and non Jewish – lived on the edge of starvation. The temple mount looked like an abandoned shack.

But you’re obviously correct, in the pre-Zionist era, Levantine Arabs certainly took a much more reasonable attitude to Jewish holy cites. The recent hardening has something to do with opposition to Zionism and something to do with a general rise in Islamic extremism (which may or may not be authentic Islam). The case remains that right now Palestinians restrict access to all Jewish holy sites that they control when they do not actually destroy them, whilst responding to completely imaginary attacks on their holy sites by going on a bus and stabbing people. Across the Arab world Jewish houses of worship have been treated with maximum possible sacrilege.

I will add that Morocco and Tunisia have, I understand, been much more scrupulous. Fair play to them.

If the political institutions are not willing to discuss these fundamental questions, what’s the point of having them?

We just had an election. The people who support Israel elected a President that will support Israel. Voting is the ultimate discussion.

Hey Gabriel,

I must admit, perhaps I interpreted his words more ominously than he intended – I definitely hope you are right and it doesn’t mean expulsion of Muslims from Jerusalem.

Whenever Muslims have the chance they deny Jews access to their holy sites, or actually destroy them.

I cited the words of Jewish scholars and historians, they acknowledge that Muslims lifted the Byzantine ban on Jews residing in Jerusalem. The Jews supported the Muslim conquest as is evidenced by the earliest writings from non-Muslim sources, read the section called ‘Jewish Sources’ from Robert Hoyland’s excellent work, ‘Seeing Islam As Others Saw It A Survey And Evaluation Of Christian Jewish And Zoroastrian Writings On Early Islam’:

If you have evidence for your claim that Muslims have historically always banned- Jews from their holy sites, bring it. As I stated, the Palestinians (or any other Muslims) have no right to ban your folk from these sites at all in conflict with the practice of our earliest generation. We have been entrusted to share those sites not exclude others from them.

It’s not normal.

This is a set of arguments that assumes that Muslims just made stuff up as they went along. It is basically a crudely stated theological argument.

Divine revelation is not the monopoly of Bani Is-haac…deal with it.

The wisdom in God’s appointing the sacred precincts in the middle of a desert with only one well-source of water should be apparent to all. No one in their right mind wants to go there for any worldly reason – not even Muslims. Far away from other historic capitals like Damascus, Constantinople, Baghdad, etc. it avoided much of the conflict that comes from political turmoil (except in the earliest generation when it was a capital).

I’ve been there, it is hot, and maybe the hottest inhabited city in the world:
“But for inhabited locations it would appear that Mecca (or Makah), Saudi Arabia is the warmest inhabited location on earth.”
https://www.wunderground.com/blog/weatherhistorian/what-are-the-hottest-and-coldest-inhabited-places-in-the-world

“God created Arrakis to train the faithful.” – Dune

If anybody wants our sacred sites, you know where they are – in the words of the Spartans, “Come and take them.”

Peace.

and that’s when most online commenters no longer have to use anonymous handles

Dang – good insight!

Peace.

Execution technician? So he’s just some minimally qualified “technician” who dabbles in neo-Nazi causes as a hobby? Maybe according to the ADL.

Here’s the facts:

Leuchter was consulted by several U.S. states to improve the efficiency of their execution devices, including hardware for execution by lethal injection, electrocution, gassing and hanging. He designed a new gas chamber for the state of Missouri, and he designed and constructed the first lethal injection machine for New Jersey. In 1990 he was profiled by both The Atlantic and Insight magazines as the nation’s foremost expert in the mechanics of execution.

Indeed why do you say gas chambers are the “lynchpin” etc when Auschwicz, which is the only site your phony expert Fred Luechter visited

Wrong. Leucter conducted a forensic examination at the following three sites:

1) Auschwitz
2) Auschwitz-Birkenhau
3) Majdanek

He also warned Ernst Zundel beforehand, the man who commissioned this study, that he would testify against him if his findings revealed that the facilities under investigation were in fact execution devices. He wouldn’t have even been allowed to testify in court if the court deemed him unqualified.

which is the only site your phony expert Fred Luechter visited accounts for no more than one million deaths?

You forget that originally Auschwitz was credited with four million deaths which was revised downward to one million which means the six million figure drops to three million. However, that’s still highly inflated based on the evidence.

Hey Rurik,

If you know the history of that area (even the areas that are currently under Palestinian ‘control’), then you know it was a mish-mash of various religions and ethnicities; this included Jews, Christians (of various stripes) and Muslims. If the Palestinians plan to have a state that excludes others who have historically lived there (or worse kills them and usurps their land because they aren’t the right ethnic group), then I want no part of it. I am not going to support the oppressed just so they can come out on top and become oppressors. If they can come up with a more accommodating and less ethnocentric model, then I support that.

Gabriel mentioned that Jews are excluded from their holy sites in the Palestinian-controlled areas, if that is true, I feel no obligation to support that kind of behavior.

Peace.

“Writing in these pages in early 2008, we put the total cost to the United States of the Iraq war at $3 trillion. This price tag dwarfed previous estimates, including the Bush administration’s 2003 projections of a $50 billion to $60 billion war. But today, as the United States ends combat in Iraq , it appears that our $3 trillion estimate (which accounted for both government expenses and the war’s broader impact on the U.S. economy) was, if anything, too low…

Hey Jews – how much of that 3 trillion went into you Big Jew Rothschild’s piggy bank?

You Little Jews must be proud – first 9/11, then the Iraq War, and all that money too — such a deal!

p.s. Aren’t you’ll glad you came to America?

The recent hardening has something to do with opposition to Zionism and something to do with a general rise in Islamic extremism (which may or may not be authentic Islam).

Well, don’t you think the “general rise” is mostly a consequence of Zionist atrocities as well? Mohammad Atta, the reputed leader of the 9/11 attackers, was motivated by the US support for Zionism, that’s a documented fact. Without a doubt, Israel is the ‘ground zero’ of the “general rise in Islamic extremism”…

We just had an election. The people who support Israel elected a President that will support Israel. Voting is the ultimate discussion.

Hey iffen,

We all know that the voters have been coerced by your Jew controlled MSM. They do not hear the truth of Israel’s evils.

The great American democracy has been stymied by you Jews – a great crime against humanity. Shame on the Jews- shame!

Art

The people who support Israel elected a President that will support Israel. Voting is the ultimate discussion.

I thought you said you were honest, iffen? Do you honestly believe the 50 million Americans on food stamps support paying $3.8 B in annual tribute to the Zionist project? Do you honestly believe the people of Detroit city, the largest municipal bankruptcy filing in U.S. history, support the US gov’ts decision to launch the GWOT, a war that has shed the blood of millions and the treasury of trillions, to remake MENA so that the security of the citizens of the Zionist project is enhanced?

Tell me something, iffen, if the American people truly supported all these things, why the need for a lobby? Isn’t it redundant? Wouldn’t the executive and legislative branches of gov’t simply pass laws and execute policies that supported the Zionist project b/c they knew the American people supported these things, as you assert?

No, iffen, here is the best indication of how democratic The Lobby is about having meaningful discussions about their objectives:

Israel’s enthusiasm for war eventually led some of its allies in America to tell Israeli officials to damp down their hawkish rhetoric, lest the war look like it was being fought for Israel. In the fall of 2002, for example, a group of American political consultants known as the Israel Project circulated a six-page memorandum to key Israelis and pro-Israel leaders in the United States. The memo was titled “Talking about Iraq” and was intended as a guide for public statements about the war. “If your goal is regime change, you must be much more careful with your language because of the potential backlash. You do not want Americans to believe that the war on Iraq is being waged to protect Israel rather than to protect America.”

How do you honestly explain that quote, iffen? No, The Lobby (aka a night flower, b/c it thrives in the dark) wanted to keep their machinations on the down low because they feared a potential backlash. This is their biggest fear… if the American people ever connect the dots and figure out they’ve been played for dumb goy, the chickens will one day come home to roost. If you were truly honest, you would admit that.

I think the point Giraldi and other realists and non-interventionists are making is that, regardless of which side is “right” in this dispute, it’s not a dispute that need concern Americans. It’s possible that some Islamist fanatics will continue to target Americans if we ended all aid to Israel and just traded with them like any other nation, but I find it implausible that more would attack us then than now.

Hey Talha,

If they can come up with a more accommodating and less ethnocentric model, then I support that.

I agree with you when it comes to aggressive ethno-nationalism, but then I’m sympathetic to ethno-nationalism when it’s defensive. As with the Palestinians, I view them more or less as I view the struggles of the North American Amerindian.

Would you condemn those tribes whose people became so exasperated with the white man’s lies and genocidal treachery that they eventually decided- on the verge of complete annihilation, ‘OK, no more ***** white people are allowed on our land!’

Consider the Jews of Palestine. How many of them defended the rights of their Palestinian neighbors as they were being slaughtered and genocided during the Nakba and/or since? I honestly don’t know, but if I were a Palestinian, I would advocate that those Jews retain all of their rights, whereas any Jews who were complicit with their silence or worse, must go, having relinquished their right to stay.

Is that too strident to your mind?

Another place where ethno-nationalism becomes tricky is in places like Zimbabwe, where the government is overtly ethno-nationalistic and are busy wiping out the hated minority. Whose side do you come down on? The whites who created the notable material successes of the country, or the blacks who thronged in from the region once the nation was thriving, and demanded to usurp the government to steal all the property of the racial minority whose ancestors created the country (albeit on the African continent)?

I don’t think the whites of Zimbabwe were attacking their neighbors and stealing their land. Rather they had simply been born in a country that their ancestors carved out of the jungle, and though hard work had created a great and prosperous nation, only to have it taken from them by black ethno-nationalists. Are you sympathetic to the plight of the whites, who’ve been ethnically cleansed, or the ethno-nationalistic blacks who’ve stolen the white-built farms and houses and property and destroyed the country?

These are some of the nuanced questions that are being hashed out in the world today regarding ethno-nationalism. It seems that some people’s (aggressive) ethno-nationalism is ‘good’.. (the blacks of Zimbabwe or the Albanian Muslims of Kosovo or the Jews of Palestine/Israel), and some people’s (defensive) ethno-nationalism is bad.. (the whites of Sweden or Europe and the Arabs of Palestine)

what about the Kurds? I have to tell you that I’m very sympathetic to their plight and struggle.

For me, Talha, all peoples are entitled to self-determination. Kurds, Jews, Palestinians, whites, blacks and so on. And when that is denied to them, then my sympathies lie with those ethno-nationalists whose struggle is defensive against those who would persecute them and genocide them and steal their lands.

Peace

Why do you continuously question my honesty and my patriotism?

I question your understanding of politics and history, but as far as I can remember, I haven’t questioned your honesty or your patriotism.

Lord knows you give me ample opportunity to do so. For example, you seem to be dedicated to the Israel/Jewish question, yet you have no opinion on the Holocaust. Now that is strange.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/ban-ki-moon-united-nations-disproportionate-israel-focus-resolutions-palestinians-human-rights-danny-a7481961.html

Ban Ki- moon of UN thinks his body is biased against Israel.

It s time for Ban to think woud he be saying same thing against Iraq if hundred of resolutions were passed against Iraq for starting war against Kuwait in 1990 followed by more resolutions against Iraq for keeping the Kuwaitis occupied ,robbed,restricted,and killed at check
Lines and borders at will

No Mr Ban can’t say that because something always happened after every biased act against Iraq. He can add Iran even to this frame of refernce and then utter some truth publicly like why Iranian children are dying from lack of medicine and air passengers are dying from air travel .

No Mr Ban ,here the word bias has no relevance , no discriminatory power. All those discriminations seem to have resulted in America pouring more money and free military instrument on Israel. The bias expressed in UN has resulted more death in Gaza,WB and Lebanon and Syria .

Gabriel, another sad zionisy LIAR, says: ‘Before the Zionist madmen came along, Palestine was sparsely populated’

Pure BS. Another zio lie that has been long refuted.

iffen to geokat62
‘Why do you continuously question my honesty and my patriotism?’

Possibly bc you are a transparently dishonest creep & an obvious zionist troll?

Uncle talha: ‘If you know the history of that area (even the areas that are currently under Palestinian ‘control’), then you know it was a mish-mash of various religions and ethnicities; this included Jews, Christians (of various stripes) and Muslims. If the Palestinians plan to have a state that excludes others who have historically lived there’

See, it is precisely for ingratiating & intellectually dishonest posts like the above that you deserve to be called uncle Talha.

No, U.T, you do NOT know the history of ‘that area’ and why would you even mention an obvious zionist liar such as this gabriel guy?

The Palestinians are the core population of ‘that area’, an ancient levantine people going back thousands of years. Modern genetics confirms it.

Before the recent zio colonization and ethnic cleansing project, 96% of the people were Palestinians, of whom approximately 86 percent Muslim, 10 percent Christian.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/

Too many cheap zio LIES are still pushed about Palestine and Palestinians and about the creation of Israel.
This needs to be fought with the actual facts.

In the 19th century the land of Palestine was inhabited by a multicultural population – approximately 86 percent Muslim, 10 percent Christian, and 4 percent Jewish – living in peace.

Notice there were very few Jews.

In the late 1800s a group in Europe decided to colonize this land. Known as Zionists, they represented an extremist minority of the Jewish population. Their goal was to create a Jewish homeland, and they considered locations in Africa and the Americas, before settling on Palestine.[2][…]

This, of course, generated conflict.

..in 1947 the United Nations decided to intervene. However, rather than adhering to the principle of “self-determination of peoples,” in which the people themselves create their own state and system of government, the UN chose to revert to the medieval strategy whereby an outside power divides up other people’s land. Under considerable Zionist pressure, the UN recommended giving away 55% of Palestine to a Jewish state – despite the fact that this group represented only about 30% of the total population, and owned under 7% of the land.

1947-1949 War

While it is widely reported that the resulting war eventually included five Arab armies, less well known is the fact that throughout this war Zionist forces outnumbered all Arab and Palestinian combatants combined – often by a factor of two to three. Moreover, Arab armies did not invade Israel – virtually all battles were fought on land that was to have been the Palestinian state.

Finally, it is significant to note that Arab armies entered the conflict only after Zionist forces had committed 16 massacres, including the grisly massacre of over 100 men, women, and children at Deir Yassin.

Full article at
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/
AT the top of the page one can find 4 maps showing the loss of Palestinian land to Zionism, from 1947 to the present…

What would you people do if you had been subjected to this kind of ‘treatment’ for over 60 years?

I question your understanding of politics and history…

Is accusing me of being an 88 related to my understanding of politics and history?

For example, you seem to be dedicated to the Israel/Jewish question, yet you have no opinion on the Holocaust.

I thought I provided my opinion in comment #229.

Alan Hart, a former BBC reporter and author of several books on the israel/Palestine conflict, had this to say on the creation of Israel( greater details can be found in his books):

[…]In the name of pragmatism, willingness to “merely to recognise” Israel – meaning to accept and live in peace with an Israel inside its pre-June ’67 borders – has long been the formal Palestinian and all-Arab position. Why does it stop short of recognising Israel’s “right to exist”, and why, really, does it matter so much to Zionism that Palestinians recognise this right?

The answer is in the following.

According to history as written by the winner, Zionism, Israel was given its birth certificate and thus legitimacy by the UN Partition Resolution of 29 November 1947. This is propaganda nonsense.

– In the first place the UN without the consent of the majority of the people of Palestine did not have the right to decide to partition Palestine or assign any part of its territory to a minority of alien immigrants in order for them to establish a state of their own.

-Despite that, by the narrowest of margins, and only after a rigged vote, the UN General Assembly did pass a resolution to partition Palestine and create two states, one Arab, one Jewish, with Jerusalem not part of either. But the General Assembly resolution was only a proposal – meaning that it could have no effect, would not become policy, unless approved by the Security Council.

-The truth is that the General Assembly’s partition proposal never went to the Security Council for consideration. Why not? Because the U.S. knew that, if approved, it could only be implemented by force given the extent of Arab and other Muslim opposition to it; and President Truman was not prepared to use force to partition Palestine.

-So the partition plan was vitiated (became invalid) and the question of what the hell to do about Palestine – after Britain had made a mess of it and walked away, effectively surrendering to Zionist terrorism – was taken back to the General Assembly for more discussion. The option favoured and proposed by the U.S. was temporary UN Trusteeship. It was while the General Assembly was debating what do that Israel unilaterally declared itself to be in existence – actually in defiance of the will of the organised international community, including the Truman administration.
The truth of the time was that the Zionist state, which came into being mainly as a consequence of pre-planned ethnic cleansing, had no right to exist and, more to the point, could have no right to exist UNLESS … Unless it was recognised and legitimized by those who were dispossessed of their land and their rights during the creation of the Zionist state. In international law only the Palestinians could give Israel the legitimacy it craved.

And that legitimacy was the only thing the Zionists could not and cannot take from the Palestinians by force.[…]

For example, you seem to be dedicated to the Israel/Jewish question, yet you have no opinion on the Holocaust.

So iffen,

Why do you not use the “Six Million Lie” anymore? Is it because it is so refutable?

Those in your face guilt games are falling flat Little Jew – they just build more resentment for your tribe.

None of use feel any guilt for what happened in WWII. You Jews must learn to forgive – it is the best policy to stop what happened in that war. Forgiving acknowledges what happened, but stops the cycle of destruction.

Those who cannot learn from history are bound to repeat it. “You reap what you sow” Jesus.

Peace and Love — Art

Also, the notion that the Jewish diaspora was the result of Roman ethnic cleansing of Jews in Judea at the aftermath of the 66–73 CE war, is PURE FICTION.
NEVER happened.
This is well known by serious historians of the period, including Israeli historians.

Even before the era of Alexander, there were Jewish communities troughout the Mediterranean basin.
More than a century before the 66 war, there was already a thriving Jewish community in Rome itself.
Israeli historian Shlomo Sand, in the chapter titled ‘the invention of the exile'(from his book ‘the invention of the jewish people), discusses the presence of many Jews in Rome and Italy by 59 BCE, and how the famous Roman orator Cicero, complained aabout their numbers and power in Rome. p.145.

Enough with this nonsense.

Is accusing me of being an 88 related to my understanding of politics and history?

Yes, it would be.

I already said that perhaps I was too hasty in forming my opinion of you in that regard.

In any case, that’s not accusing you of dishonesty.

That’s an accusation of being mis-informed or of muddled thinking.

Dear Nephew,

I already know about this – I have little disagreement with anything on that site by the wonderful and indomitable Alison Weir (may God grant her many long years). In fact, the map you linked to is almost identical to the map we used to publish in our pamphlets on campus.

Is there any doubt that Zionism is mostly a secular ethno-nationalist European enterprise and supported by European colonial empires – and even founded with the aid of (gasp) terrorist methods? Even the Jews from other lands; Yemen, Iraq, Morocco, etc. are not native to that land; this is a given. Nor did they feel a need to ever migrate to that land wholescale – the entire thing is artificial like so much else of modern man. And when treated reasonably well, the Jews stay and don’t plan on cutting the ties of places they’ve inhabited for centuries:
http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2015/02/19/387265766/irans-jews-its-our-home-and-we-plan-to-stay
http://interactive.aljazeera.com/aje/PalestineRemix/return-to-morocco.html#/22

Is there a ‘Persian Jew’ if he is not in Persia? A ‘Moroccan Jew’ if he is not in Morocco? An ‘Ethipoian Jew’ if he is not in Ethiopia?
“And did you exchange
A walk on part in the war
For a lead role in a cage?”

I think this is something that other Muslim countries can work on; making their atmosphere conducive to those Jews coming back who want no part in that ‘project’.

However, some Jews, a minority for sure, are native to that land (and have been for centuries) and should not have their rights denied any more than Palestinians should. Furthermore, Jews from all over the world should be allowed to visit and worship at their holy sites.

Why this is considered boot-licking to Zionists, I have no clue.

Peace.

No I do not think that it is remotely plausible that when Boko Haram kidnaps a bus full of children or Pakistanis rampage around Bombay slaughtering people it is “mostly a consequence of Zionists atrocities”.

Another reason I do not think it is plausible is because the Muslim Brotherhood was founded in 1928 and Saudi Arabia was unified under Wahhabi rule in 1932 and I have a basic grasp of time.

That sentence was misphrased. As I explained in another comment, I meant that right now Muslims denying Jews access to holy sites and destroying houses of worship is a widespread fact, whereas Jews denying Muslims access to holy sites and destroying houses of worship is a paranoid projection.

I always find it interesting how moderate Muslims are willing to uncritically believe the most outlandish claims about Israel. My wife’s best friend at school was the children of Egyptian immigrants. My wife once asked whether she was interested in visiting Israel. She said that she was scared of getting attacked, something which is entirely ludicrous as anyone who simply walks any around any Israeli shopping centre where designer handbags or big sunglasses are sold can attest.

I think this is something that other Muslim countries can work on; making their atmosphere conducive to those Jews coming back who want no part in that ‘project’.

LOL. You don’t even want to live in a Muslim country.

Why not answer the question that was put to you in #267?

Uh no – I don’t mind living in a Muslim country and proposed several potential locations to my wife. She is a White convert however – this is her native land – from Swedish stock. She has thought it over and, depending on how things play out, we may move. I know you think the entire Muslim world is an out-house, but you’ve made it plain from your comments that you don’t have much knowledge about the historic Muslim world and its intersection with Jews to begin with.

I would start here “Neo-lachrymose Conception of Jewish-Arab History”:
http://www.academia.edu/6560487/Neo-lachrymose_Conception_of_Jewish-Arab_History

Which is an excellent article by Mark Cohen who wrote this excellent and balanced book:
“Did Muslims and Jews in the Middle Ages cohabit in a peaceful “interfaith utopia”? Or were Jews under Muslim rule persecuted, much as they were in Christian lands? Rejecting both polemically charged ideas as myths, Mark Cohen offers a systematic comparison of Jewish life in medieval Islam and Christendom–and the first in-depth explanation of why medieval Islamic-Jewish relations, though not utopic, were less confrontational and violent than those between Christians and Jews in the West.”
http://press.princeton.edu/titles/8761.html

So, if you are from European Jewry stock – sorry, you don’t get to rewrite history to fit your paradigm.

Some Jews don’t need to move to Israel to validate their identity:
“I am a Jew living in a Muslim country, and I am happy,” she said in an email. “I have my friends, family and my life here.” Her Muslim friends, she noted, had asked her if they could attend upcoming Jewish weddings “so that we can come and support you.”
Asked whether Jews were considering leaving Turkey, she said, “Migration from one country to another is in our history. However, we have been here for more than 500 years. I have my roots here, so it not easy to just pack up and go, and neither do I want to.”
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.714614

Peace.

You don’t even want to live in a Muslim country.

He’s working on correcting that. 🙂

Dear Mr Giraldi,

If the ongoing settlement enterprise does foreclose on the possibility of a viable state of Palestine for the Palestinian people……

What comes next ?

Does anyone really believe that the impulse toward continual land grabs buoyed by the determined settler mentality that dominates the Knesset today(as well as most of D.C.) will, upon completion of its task, suddenly “throw open the doors” to a bi-national state with equal rights for all ?

Please……one must be dreaming….

If anything, the current trends underway betray the exact opposite coming to pass…..a second “Nakba”….perhaps five times greater than the first……..will function as the settlers exclamation point on their drive to consolidate the Greater Israel Project .

They will eliminate the potential of an impending Apartheid by literally expelling and /or slaughtering , for all time, the bulk of Palestinians left in Judea and Samaria.

How can it be an “Apartheid State” if their are no Palestinians left ,anywhere, to suffer under it ?

Will the Israeli Military re-enter Gaza for the final liquidation, seize key coastal territory for gleaming new high rises , magnificent casinos and full access to Gaza’s water rights and off shore gas wells ?

Perhaps leaving a thimbleful of land north of the Rafah crossing, crammed full of Palestinians (like sardines) earmarked for merger with Egypt ?

Is that the plan ?

Lets assume for a moment , it is the plan…..and Israel is wholly successful in undertaking this “final solution” to the Palestinian question….

Then what happens ?

What comes next ?

Will Israel become an Ink spot of international shame ?

Will the entire world, absent the US congress, (of course) shut their doors to Israel ?….Just close the book on all interactions, all trade, all diplomacy ? Will all good will towards Israel vanish forever into thin air ?

What happens to Israel once the final and forced dissolution of Palestine is complete ?

Does anyone really know ?

That is understandable but ethno-nationalism is also a force of nature and can never be eradicated from the human soul. It can be a force for good or ill just like religion.

And let’s not forgot that most religions, including yours, are squatting on a mountain of skulls.

Hey Gabriel,

I meant that right now Muslims denying Jews access to holy sites and destroying houses of worship is a widespread fact

I may not agree with ‘widespread’, but yes certain Muslims are definitely doing this and certain extremists are also doing this to Christian sites across the Muslim world. Don’t use hyperbolic phrases like ‘Whenever Muslims have the chance…’ please. As I have said, they have no right to do this. And that example you showed of the prophet Joseph (pbuh) – any Muslim who desecrates his blessed resting place is opening themselves to the ire of God. They had best desist – stat!

I always find it interesting how moderate Muslims are willing to uncritically believe the most outlandish claims about Israel.

I am for believing in what is factual – I have great relations with my Jewish co-worker and my Jewish neighbors (who are plentiful since I live on the same block as a synagogue). Likewise, I find it interesting that many Jews can believe outlandish claims about Islam and Muslims.

Here are some pretty happy Jews in Morocco, they love the king:
https://www.moroccoworldnews.com/2016/09/197277/moroccan-jews-dancing-while-carrying-photo-of-king-mohammed-vi/

Peace.

I meant that right now Muslims denying Jews access to holy sites and destroying houses of worship is a widespread fact, whereas Jews denying Muslims access to holy sites and destroying houses of worship is a paranoid projection.

I do not have the facts to argue that out – but I do know about Gaza – your million person prison.

The evil you do there, so far out shadows anything the Palestinians are doing to Israel.

You Jews can never ever complain about the Palestinians with a straight face.

Perhaps you can explain how you Jews can in mass be so dishonest.

Peace — Art

Hey KenH,

is also a force of nature and can never be eradicated from the human soul

So is sexual energy. No – it cannot and neither can it be let loose with abandon.

And let’s not forgot that most religions, including yours, are squatting on a mountain of skulls.

Yes (including those without religion) – the Day of Judgment is going to be a very, very grim event – lot’s of people have lots to answer for and there is no obfuscating the evidence. Keep your own record as clean as possible.

“That Day shall We set a seal on their mouths. But their hands will speak to us, and their feet bear witness, to all that they did.” 36:65

Peace.

[Gabriel mentioned that Jews are excluded from their holy sites in the Palestinian-controlled areas, if that is true, ]

Hey Talha,
Yes, this part is true enough. As a Jew you can go up to the Mount, only as any other tourist might, under the strict eye of Israeli guards and Pal strongmen making sure that Jews don’t engage in prayer. I don’t understand the restriction; it has been the flashpoint of a great deal of violence (e.g., Sharon’s trip there started an intifada, which Arik likely anticipated; but there it is: Jews not allowed to pray on the Mount)

Bwaaahahahaha! We will out-breed you all!

Peace.

Jews not allowed to pray on the Mount

Maybe they could go and pray in Mecca instead.

My good friend Rurik,

Aggressive ethno-nationalism is exactly what I am talking about. If you read my posts, it should be clear that I actually have no problem with a society being set up in a way as to have an alpha group (an ‘old guard’) whether that is religious or ethnic based as long as they are benevolent and do not oppress the minority groups. Whether that government is a monarchy, parliamentary system, tribal confederation, etc. doesn’t matter much to me.

Is that too strident to your mind?

I can understand that for sure, but how do determine guilt for sure on these terms?

You’ve brought up some excellent examples which I’m not sure there are perfect answers to. There will have to be a degree of reconciliation and forgiveness in each instance. For instance in Zimbabwe, I don’t think the government should simply rip out the land from Whites, but isn’t this also built on a colonial British legacy that made sure the British settlers received a disproportionate amount of usable land – I am not an expert on this, so I’m not certain – but it seems reminiscent of the Brits in India or European colonial enterprises elsewhere – except all those packed up and left. Though, again, I’m not an expert on the conflict there. I certainly don’t think descendants of Whites should simply be evicted but a more equitable solution reached. Incidentally, even if (hypothetically) all of Palestine is completely taken over by Arabs I don’t think Jews that have immigrated should simply be evicted. The Muslim world absorbed Jewish immigrants before, we can do it again – it’s just an issue of numbers and details.

I am glad that we live now in a time of international law (however imperfectly it is applied) and that it is not the law of ‘might makes right’. I don’t think any ethnicity should be aggressively trying to dominate or expel anyone else at this point now – the inheritance of the older times where this was the norm (Huns, Mongols, Arabs, Greeks, Brits, etc.), we will just have to figure out because we can’t press the undo button. For instance, you mention Kurdistan, well Kurds have been occupied or had alliances and hosted garrisons of either Iran or the Turks or the Arabs for centuries before there was even a British Empire. Then what do you do with Persians or Arabs (facts on the ground) that obviously live within the land that they claim as a nation. Very difficult stuff to figure out.

Peace.

Kids and converts, kids and converts. 🙂

I am glad that we live now in a time of international law (however imperfectly it is applied) and that it is not the law of ‘might makes right’.

Get a grip, Talha.

“Before the Zionist madmen came along, Palestine was sparsely populated and underdeveloped backwater whose population – Jewish and non Jewish – lived on the edge of starvation.”

OOPS! Gabriel heads it into his own goal…. completely discrediting everything he has to say about anything…. Zio-Troll down, out, and barred from relevance…

This link is for the photos of Jaffa, but the article may also be interesting-
http://www.anarkismo.net/article/12296
Jaffa was the largest city in historic Palestine during the years of the British mandate, with a population of more than 80,000 Palestinians in addition to the 40,000 persons living in the towns and villages in its immediate vicinity.

Hey iffen,

Let the Hanafis (like the Ottomans) take over again and that becomes a possibility:
“Abu Hanifa’s opinion was that non-Muslims can enter Mecca and even the Sacred Mosque [haram], as long as they do not do so for the sake of the pilgrimage [hajj or umra], which they are not allowed to perform.”
http://seekershub.org/ans-blog/2010/10/20/are-non-muslims-allowed-to-enter-mecca-and-the-sacred-mosque-haram/

Combined with the fact that Rambam said praying in a mosque is kosher, you have a reasonable combo for a hypothetical situation:
“Regarding entering a mosque, the Rambam explains in one of his responses that Ishmaelites are not considered idol-worshippers since they believe in Hashem, blessed is He, and there is no denial of Hashem in their religion or anything else that should cause them to be considered idol-worshippers…Nevertheless, there is no halachic prohibition to enter an Arabic Muslim mosque; this is especially true when this is being done in order to pray there, such as at the graves of our forefathers in the Machpela Cave in Chevron.”
http://halachayomit.co.il/en/ReadHalacha.aspx?halachaid=2367

Peace.

Hey Sam,

Like I mentioned, I do not support this and I believe this policy is condemned by our own tradition. It is a sad side-effect of how Zionism and the resultant Arab nationalist backlash have completely skewed centuries of historical precedent.

Peace.

I find it very interesting that so many intelligent people can believe in an Abrahamic god (other gods are even further from my comprehension) who so clearly doesn’t think it good policy to make sure everyone is well informed about Him and his views. (To keep it short let me just suggest that, if there is an omniscient, omnipotent Creator the only explanation that makes sense is that he was lonely and bored so set going an evolutionary process that he could watch as entertainment. “Made in his image” we would have to guess that He has done it countless trillions of times: hence multiverses).

Clearly the evolved God gene has had some selective success but I would be interested to know what you think the outcome would be if somehow the 90 per cent of dangerous people in the world – young men – could be turned into agnostics or atheists.

Without seeking to dispute what you say I still wonder why you accept his supposed proofs when he was rejected as an expert witness and several people have published debunking criticisms of his work.

Sad is right. Gabriel the Zionazi LIAR and TROLL is also STUPID – making lies that are easily exposed. Here’e his ‘sparsely polulated, starving’ Palestine before the Zionist onslaught –

http://blog.palestine-studies.org/2015/05/15/nakba-day-2015/
NAKBA DAY BEFORE-AND-AFTER:
Jaffa, Jerusalem and Haifa

Perhaps I have misunderstood you. Your argument that China’s military occupation of Tibet in 1951 was sufficient to make Tibet part of China presumably means you accept that Israel’s occupation of pre 1967 Israel with its Arab citizens was just as conclusive in establishing Israel on those pre 1967 borders. If not why not?

When do disputes of that kind remain unresolved? What, for example, is your consistent take on Georgia/Ossetia, Ukraine/Crimea, Indonesia/West Irian? Or are there special rules for China because it is big and powerful as it most recently seems to be trying to prove in the South China Sea?

GABRIEL M is a LYING ZIONAZI TROLL
Zionist atrocities began before the Nakba.
The ’empty, undeveloped land’ is part of the myth Zios created to perpetuate their fraud.

– The City of Jaffa: an example of Ethnic Cleansing –
http://www.itisapartheid.org/getinformed_sub3_subsub2_text.html
Imagine the Terror and Horror Jaffa Palestinians Must Have Felt
When They Were PUSHED INTO THE SEA, May 1948

Yes, I saw your comments on this matter after I responded to your earlier one.

Israelis – the overwhelming majority today – will not choose a state where Muslims are a majority. Hamas and Palestinians, in general, will not accept a state with Jews.

I won’t get into propaganda issues – there is plenty to go around both from the Israeli side and even more from Pallywood, believe it or not – mainly to cut to the chase and talk about practical matters.

So in my mind, if we were to have a 1SS, I think Jewish citizens ought to embrace the reality; which is, Palestinians currently living in the WB if given citizenship, will result in a direct Muslim-majority democracy; or at least pretty close. I am perfectly ok with it.

After that, if demographics are a major concern it is better for Jews to bring Arab citizens up to par economically. Otherwise, the population-surge weapon will unleash without a doubt, industrial standards being inversely related to population growth. I don’t think Israelis today will accept this risk.

It is possible to explore the notion of fair compensation for say about 1m or more Palestinians to relocate themselves to other Arab nations: Jordan., Egypt, Morocco, Lebanon, Tunisia, Algeria are possibilities. However, I don’t think most of these countries want Palestinians, reputations preceding, etc…

So a 2SS is the only clean way.

However, I don’t think most of these countries want Palestinians, reputations preceding, etc…

Oh yes – that is for sure – those bad ass Palestinians — everyone knows what total war animals they are. They have been feared for thousands of years.

p.s. It’s true and a sad part of human nature – that there always has to be an unfair belittling of those you abuse.

Here’s an excerpt from The formal end of the two-state solution:

“The status quo is leading toward one state, or perpetual occupation,” said John Kerry in his speech this morning.

But we are past “leading toward.” The moment has arrived. For the next four years Israel, it appears, will have enthusiastic support from the American administration for its one state reality and occupation. Incoming president Donald Trump has nominated an ambassador to Israel who raises funds for West Bank settlements, who refers to the West Bank by its biblical names Judea and Samaria, who was bar mitzvahed at the Western Wall, who has spent his summers at an apartment in Jerusalem since 2002, who rejects a two-state-solution for the West Bank and Gaza, and who has described Jewish supporters of a two-state solution, as “far worse than kapos—Jews who turned in their fellow Jews in the Nazi death camps.” Under Trump’s leadership, commitment to a two-state solution was removed from the Republican platform. See, e.g WSJ.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-could-be-even-more-wrong-on-israel-1482882327

Perpetual occupation is the official policy of Israel and, in 23 days, the official policy of the United States. Resolution 2334 marks the formal end point of the two-state solution.

http://mondoweiss.net/2016/12/formal-state-solution/

Hey WoO,

This is getting theological, but I’ll go ahead and answer since you asked specific questions – though I’m not going to debate the points.

everyone is well informed about Him

Everyone is graded on a curve as Imam Ghazali (ra) explained; if you never heard the message, or never heard the correct message, you won’t be judged by that. If you heard the message correctly and you rejected it – well, I’m not God, so one can plead their case to Him when they see Him.

lonely and bored

Boredom is inconceivable for a Being Who created time and space and transcends them both. There is no timeline for God. His Begin-lessness is the same as His End-lessness – He does not age, gain more knowledge or become more perfect. He is observing your birth, your death and you being ushered into Heaven or Hell all in the very now of the ‘eternal moment’ (there is no term for it that makes sense in our framework). A statement of the early Muslims was, “He was, before there was a ‘when’ and a ‘where’ – and He is now as He ever was.” Lonely…He created the universe not for His benefit, as He is exalted above need of anything. The Divine Being was already self-aware of the Divine attributes; He originated creation, that His Omnipotence and Attributes be manifested to creation out of His generosity to share them with us, not out of need. We would not have had a chance to know Him (which is the point of worship) had He not brought us into existence.

At the end of the day, our intellectualizing about the existence of God does not change the reality of whether He exists or not – He does not need us to affirm Him:
“Allah bears witness that there is no god but He.” 3:18

And if He does exist, what is one going to do about it? It’s all Pascal’s wager – pick the most coherent narrative and roll with it.
“It is reward enough for worship that He has accepted you as worthy of it.” – Ibn Ata Illah (ra)

People usually pick a religion because it brings benefit to them – rarely do you see a person who just had to submit to a theological argument equivalent to a jujitsu arm-bar. Which is why I don’t argue theology* as I have been taught not to do so by my teachers.

Multiverse

This possibility was explored by no less than a theological authority than Imam Fakhruddin Razi (ra). If you are interested in a quick summary of his points based on the first verse of the opening chapter of the Qur’an; “Praise be Allah, Lord of the worlds“:
A Concise History of Afghanistan in 25 Volumes: Volume 1

Bigger question is; is that relevant to us? The answer, from our theological perspective is – no. The big question is, will you be successful on the Day of Judgement which is the goal of those in this universe.

90 per cent of dangerous people in the world – could be turned into agnostics or atheists

I am not convinced that removing a transcendent moral or ethical framework will make them any less dangerous – just my take on it.

Peace.

*Note: Seriously folks, I’m not commenting in order to debate these points – I was asked, so I answered – I will simply ignore any attempts in trying to argue. If you have further questions – I can try to find you answers, contact me at my Google account above.

Hey Sam,

will result in a direct Muslim-majority democracy

Sounds like Lebanon honestly.

So a 2SS is the only clean way.

Full removal of all settlers in the WB?

Peace.

Thanks for the links RobinG, good stuff!

Peace.

So you are only referring to the West Bank? And you put Israel with its UN recognised boundaries as on the same footing, though older, as Tibet with its Han settlers and West Irian with its Javanese settlers?

Why are you only concerned by European origin settlement?

While I would not let a Chinaman criticize the west without throwing their sins back into their faces (e.g., the Dzungar genocide, Tibet, Uighurs, etc.), I also would not let a Zionist pretend my 1-12 above weren’t a thing.

So Obama allowed a toothless symbolic resolution, apparently favoured even by most American Jews, to pass the SC. What good will that do?

If appearances, the war of words, rhetorical points, etc., didn’t matter, then Bibi & co probably shouldn’t be squealing as if they do.

Before the Zionist madmen came along, Palestine was sparsely populated and underdeveloped backwater whose population – Jewish and non Jewish – lived on the edge of starvation. The temple mount looked like an abandoned shack.

Far more true of European settlers, America, and Amerinds than of Jews, Palestine, and Palestinians, but try telling diaspora Jewish professors that. I doubt 1 in 100 would find the argument persuasive, at least not in the way you mean it to be persuasive in legitimizing Zionist colonization.

Why aren’t you out there trying to convert your tribe?

I agree with you when it comes to aggressive ethno-nationalism, but then I’m sympathetic to ethno-nationalism when it’s defensive. As with the Palestinians, I view them more or less as I view the struggles of the North American Amerindian.

Would you condemn those tribes whose people became so exasperated with the white man’s lies and genocidal treachery that they eventually decided- on the verge of complete annihilation, ‘OK, no more ***** white people are allowed on our land!’

I was just reading yesterday, about some Amerind tribe that exterminated some other Amerind tribe, in the 17th century, IIRC. Thanks for reminding me to get back to reading that!

Then there was that tribe that made war on Jamestown, but were crushed by the settlers and their Amerind allies.

Sorry I don’t have the names of the tribes handy. There were so many…

P.S., the whole thing where you implied that Amerinds were all peace-loving hippies, many of whom didn’t murder European explorers and settlers on sight, that was pretty cute. Lemme guess; whites taught them scalping, right?

Lord knows you give me ample opportunity to do so. For example, you seem to be dedicated to the Israel/Jewish question, yet you have no opinion on the Holocaust. Now that is strange.

Why would it be strange for him to ignore the issue, thus avoiding any opportunity for you to change the subject and score cheap rhetorical points? I mean, it’s not like you’re actually using his ignoring the issue as an opportunity to try to change the subject and score cheap rhetorical points…

It is possible to explore the notion of fair compensation for say about 1m or more Palestinians to relocate themselves to other Arab nations

It sure is too bad that the Jews don’t have any money to something like that!

My mistake, my 1-12 are in another thread:

https://www.unz.com/pbuchanan/barack-backhands-bibi/

So a 2SS is the only clean way.

Full removal of all settlers in the WB?

More like Israel and Judea.

None of use feel any guilt for what happened in WWII.

More’s the pity.

The fire bombings of 170 German cities and dozens of Japanese cities, deliberately targeting civilians and incinerating somewhere around 600,000 German civilians and god only knows how many Japanese civilians, were war crimes and crimes against humanity.

Because the Allies have never been called to account for their crimes, they continue to act with impunity, committing more of the same crimes, like a serial killer on a spree, who thinks he’s invincible.

The ethnic transfer of millions of Germans, and the maltreatment, starvation, and psychological warfare carried out against Germans for over five years after the German surrender is something else the American people should “feel guilt” for, but most are not aware of what was done in their name.

Not only do USAians “feel no guilt” for the commission of these war crimes, they revel in them — to the extent they even know what was done in their name.

The holocaust doxology: that there was a plan to kill every single _XXX___ by industrial means, that resulted in the deaths of 6 million _XXX___ is a projection:

there was a plan to kill as many Germans as possible, civilian and military alike;

by industrial means — including firebombing, which was researched and rehearsed to achieve the most efficient means of producing a firestorm;

that resulted in the deaths of an estimated 7 million Germans, most of them after Germany surrendered.

Unlike the alleged holocaust of Jews, the holocaust of the German people is well documented.

The Jew York Times still uses Germany as its all-purpose whipping boy, keeping the guilt fresh and raw: this item posted this morning:

“Germany Grapples with its African Genocide”
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/29/world/africa/germany-genocide-namibia-holocaust.html?emc=edit_th_20161229&nl=todaysheadlines&nlid=60527570&_r=0

Germar Rudolf was also skeptical of Leuchter’s work: he respected the motivation but as a PhD candidate in chemistry at Max Planck Institute, was concerned about Leuchter’s methods.

So Rudolf created the appropriate protocols and tested Auschwitz for Xyklon B, submitted samples to an independent, reputable lab. The lab’s analysis pretty much confirmed Leuchter’s conclusions.

The Rudolf Report: Expert Report on Chemical and Technical Aspects of ‘Gas Chambers’ at Auschwitz.

Why do you reject Leuchter’s conclusions out of hand? If you’re Jewish it’s understandable that you don’t have an open mind on the subject. But then, there are Jews like David Cole who also dispute the six million claim.

It’s been a long time since I read critiques of Leuchters work, but most of it amounted to nit picking and personal attacks to cast aspersions on Leucther rather than glaring errors in his methods.

Leucther was viciously attacked by world Jewry after he published his findings and they destroyed his professional life and ruined his marriage. All for questioning their cherished claim which they use to perpetually guilt trip and extort Germany and the West and hide behind to shield themselves from any and all criticism.

Anyone who doesn’t believe in their claims and embellishments is symbolically burned at the stake.

Listen you little fucking moron, you have no idea what you say most of the time, your knowledge derived from reading the echo-chambers you inhabit. Ever set foot in the Middle East? Fuck off.

Do you think any of your rambles or those of any of the other morons insulting Jews here matter even a bit? You are really stupid. Do you think Trump cares a whit what you say?

Wait and see.

Listen you pathetic little whining piece of shit. You are commenting on a forum run by a Jew. Of the People you hate, regardless of how much benefit any one of them bestows on you, judging by every little odious crap you deposit here.

So fucking piece of shit, why don’t you build and maintain your own “Christian” site where you can spew?

Shameless ape!

Yeah… and after that report the powers that be hunted Rudolf down and put him in prison… in the “freest” Germany of all time!
Oh those pesky thought crimes… the holohoax does not have a leg to stand on.

Removal of 300k settlers is not something we would do. This is not Gaza. I think we’d have to enter into land swaps and monetary help for Pals to settle in Jordan or Egypt. The truth is most Pals would prefer to live in Israel, avail of the nation’s public services, especially the educational institutions and healthcare. It would be a tremendous burden on the state.

We’ll have to dig deep.

On another matter, I think people on this forum especially ones I though I respected ought to refrain from using appalling slurs GabrielM or other Jewish commentators [yes you RobinG, and I never saw that snark you were going to write to Diogenes. I am sure you got busy]. I don’t mind vagrants like L.K or Art engage with dirt. I am happy to return in kind.

Thank you for your reply – with your usual exemplary courtesy.