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The Mysterious Michael D’Andrea: Was the C.I.A.’s Iran Mission Center Chief Shot Down?
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Pictures shared by Taliban linked social media accounts showed wreckage of an E11 aircraft on a snowy plain. Credit: Pajhwok

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Last Monday a United States Air Force Bombardier E11A communications and intelligence gathering jet was either shot down or crashed in a remote mountainous region of Afghanistan. Almost immediately a story sourcing Taliban officials ran on Iranian State television claiming that the dead had included Michael D’Andrea, the chief of the Central Intelligence Agency (C.I.A.)’s special Iran task force, which goes by the name Iran Mission Center.

U.S. forces were hampered by weather, Taliban gunfire and terrain from reaching the site of the crash for more than 24 hours, and the lack of any kind of definitive commentary from Washington gave the story legs. Given the news vacuum on the story, the Iranian account was picked up throughout the Middle East, to include photos allegedly taken of the downed plane and of burned corpses. Russian Media also featured the story and it was eventually even reported, though with some editorial skepticism, by the Independent and Daily Mail in the United Kingdom.

The Pentagon eventually issued a brief report that the crash appeared to be accidental, perhaps due to weather, and stated still later that the pilot and co-pilot, both Air Force officers, had been killed. The statement to the media did not explicitly say whether or not there was anyone else on board the plane, which is capable of carrying additional crewmen and passengers. The C.I.A. refused to comment. Fully forty-eight hours after the crash the Pentagon released a second statement confirming that the two crewmen were Lt. Col. Paul K. Voss, 46, of Yigo, Guam; and Capt. Ryan S. Phaneuf, 30, of Hudson, New Hampshire.

The mainstream media in the U.S. dutifully replayed the government version of what had occurred, but that did not stop a wave of speculation regarding a possible cover-up. Some reasoned that the Iranians, who are cooperating with the Taliban against U.S. forces, seemed to be on top of the story first, indicating that they might have known what occurred in real time because they had been in the loop with the Taliban armed unit that may have shot the aircraft down using a Russian produced portable anti-aircraft missile launcher.

Many who were following the story were inclined to believe the account circulated by Iran and other media outlets because the United States has a recent track record of lying about nearly everything, including the “imminent threat” details of its recent assassination of Iranian Major General and Quds Force commander Qassem Soleimani. The U.S. also lied when it claimed that there had been no casualties among American forces after Iran struck back against two bases in Iraq and many observers are quick to note that the United States has as its Chief Executive a man who calls journalists the “enemy of the people” and who is constantly claiming that there exists a huge reservoir of “fake news.”

So, another lie by the Pentagon in reporting the possibly successful attempt to kill a senior C.I.A. officer would be expected by nearly everyone, which is not to suggest that the Iranian account was necessarily true or accurate in all details. Iran would have had plenty of motive to create confusion about the United States and what it was doing in Afghanistan, particularly if the implication is that Afghanistan was being used as a launching pad to destabilize or even attack Iran, with which Kabul is not at war.

The White House and Agency have neither confirmed nor denied that the C.I.A. Chief of the Iran Mission Center Michael D’Andrea is still alive. He has in any event an interesting history. He is apparently a near contemporary of mine though I did not know him and do not know if that is his true name. As he is reported to be under cover, the fact that a name has surfaced at all is due to investigative reporting on him in the U.S. media. A former chief of the CI.A.’s Counter Terrorism Center, he was appointed to his current position by then Agency Director Mike Pompeo in June 2017. The New York Times reported that his appearance on the scene would mean a much harder line in opposing Iran on the part of the Trump Administration.

Within the Agency, D’Andrea was reportedly referred to as the Dark Prince or Ayatollah Mike, nicknames he acquired while heading the search for Usama bin Laden and also while directed drone strikes against al-Qaeda targets in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, Yemen and Iraq. As a chain-smoking observant convert to Islam, he is not your conventional Agency officer, many of whom are more comfortable working inside from an Embassy desk rather than from a helicopter. A workaholic who keeps a roll away bed in his office, D’Andrea is, as a result of his abrasive style, reportedly extremely difficult to work with and not terribly popular.

One might also speculate that the claimed killing of D’Andrea is something like a half truth that might be construed as a warning. The C.I.A. officer might still be alive, but it is completely possible that the tale of his death was something of a contrivance to serve as a warning coming from the Iranian government suggesting that if the American government can kill senior Iranian officials, American senior officials might likewise also be targeted.

Even if D’Andrea was not on the plane, he just might come to the conclusion that his movements were being monitored. U.S. bases overseas are full of local employees who are engaged in menial tasks like driving or cleaning and even for perimeter and other basic security. Any number of them might be reporting on the movement of important Americans to the Taliban and other interested parties. D’Andrea and other senior U.S. government officials will inevitably have to think twice and increase their security arrangements when next they venture forth. And even an obstinate White House will perhaps begin to think that killing men like Qassem Soleimani is not a good idea because if we continue to do it to “them,” “they” will turn around and do it to us.

(Republished from American Herald Tribune by permission of author or representative)
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: American Military, CIA, Iran, Qassem Soleimani 
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  1. mijj says:

    in the novel i’m thinking of writing, the Pentagon co-operated with Iran in the elimination of D’Andrea.

  2. If reports from the mid east of D’Andreas death are false would not the U S seek to discredit the reports and their source by saying the man still lives?

    • Replies: @A123
    , @journey80
  3. A123 says:
    @Gordon Pratt

    If reports from the mid east of D’Andreas death are false would not the U S seek to discredit the reports and their source by saying the man still lives?

    The spooks simply do not respond to questions on the record. To give an answer they would have to admit D’Andreas was a CIA station chief. Thus, they stick with, “Neither Confirm nor Deny”.

    The story seems improbable. What would a station chief be doing in the back of a communications plane? Someone that senior has much better things to with their time. A helicopter crash would be much more likely to claim the life of a top level official.

    The most credible explanation I have heard so far is that D’Andres was lower in the hierarchy. The station chief is actually someone else. Thus the crash took out a mid level staffer. Of course, there is no way to know for sure.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @NPleeze
  4. Half Back says:

    ..” the reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated,” D’ Andrea/Langley Funeral Parlor

  5. melpol says:

    Stories about secret CIA operatives are usually fake news. D,andrea might be a civilian hopping a free ride to a fun filled oasis. This plane could have crashed due to mechanical failure. Desert dwellers are always looking for credit of downing the plane of an infidel.

  6. @mijj

    in the novel i’m thinking of writing, the Pentagon co-operated with Iran in the elimination of D’Andrea.

    Sounds like the conspiracy theory I recently heard that Soleimani was as much a liability to Iran’s leadership as to America, which is one reason why the fallout from his death has been relatively tame.

    • LOL: Tony Hall
  7. Bugsplat says:

    A few years back D’Andrea’s name was briefly floated as chief of DO, then superceded, or obfuscated, by an unnamed ‘she.’ This was around the time when Pakistan was publicly pantsing station chiefs, leading to a fairly entertaining game of musical chairs. Does anybody know if he did in fact do a stint as a Chairborne Ranger? Whacking a DO head would make a very pointed statement, what with treaty body pressure on the USG to implement command responsibility in law. DO is the highest levels of government, since they’re the ones who whack insubordinate presidential figureheads.

  8. Lot says:

    Fired from the American Conservative, PG now is paid by the Iranian “American Herald Tribune” a fakenews Islamic propaganda website that uses a name that sounds like a real newspaper.

    Most of PG’s fans are foreign jihadis or americans with mental illnesses. What causes someone born in the USA to descend to such depths?

    Details here:

  9. It is an intriguing event, but I guess we’re all left to think as we are inclined rather to know.

    The official attitudes revealed here are just just a small part of why you cannot believe anything that comes out of Washington.

    Full-time war means full-time deception.

    Just as great power means great corruption.

    The American empire gives us almost the worst of all possible worlds.

  10. anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:

    So refuting anything he said might give you cooties?

  11. @Lot

    God, what a poor way to show yourself.

    Your remarks reflect on you more than Mr Giraldi.

    Personal attack? On the author and his readers?

    No response to any analysis or line of thinking?

    Speaks for itself. Shabby.

    The fact is that, whatever his background and whatever the nature of any publication carrying him, Giraldi is one of the best quality alt-media writers we have.

    Always worth a read, and sometimes just superb.

    I judge for myself always, but a lowlife approach like yours only brings him into higher esteem.

    • Agree: AnonStarter, Tony Hall
  12. utu says:

    DIA was keeping channels open to Assad in Syria via Moscow and Berlin and sabotaging CIA weapons shipments to Syrian rebels (Al-Qaeda, Al-Nusra and ISIS) when gen. Dempsey was Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and gen. Flynn was in DIA (our Sy Hersh article).

    • Replies: @sarz
  13. When we invaded Iraq in 2003, and for years after, there were regular news releases claiming this or that high enemy officer (the number two guy in Al Queda Iraq, &c.) had been killed. It is a routine propaganda trope. The Taliban is not known to possess anti-aircraft missile armament. That stuff costs big money.

  14. @Lot

    ‘Fired from the American Conservative, PG now is paid by the Iranian “American Herald Tribune” a fakenews Islamic propaganda website that uses a name that sounds like a real newspaper.

    Most of PG’s fans are foreign jihadis or americans with mental illnesses…’

    OMG. Jeepers. Should I stop reading him, Lot?

    • Agree: Lot
  15. anonymous[189] • Disclaimer says:

    Who knows what’s fact in this house of distorted mirrors. Is this fancy name D’Andrea his real name or an assumed one? How could a high ranking CIA member be a Muslim convert even while targeting many of them? This seems bizarre and hard to believe. However, right now Russian media has more credibility than American media does so paying some attention to them could be useful. Another thing is that they had cameras on the scene quickly so perhaps they knew a surprise was in the offing. Are the Iranians that good that they know who is working against them and their whereabouts so they could pull off a counter-assassination so quickly? It’s in the interest of many on all sides to lie and manage public perceptions so how could the average interested person really find out the truth of this story?

  16. Tony Hall says:


    Heh Lot. Go back to CNN where you probably belong if you are not an outright troll. If you believe the bunk published on CNN is more believable than what you here see at Unz , you really cheapen the neighbourhood by hanging out here. Go away please to venues more attuned to your taste for junk food of the mind.

    Not only is CNN attacking American Herald Tribune, but Washington Post is too. That’s a basis for quite a bit of street cred around these parts. The corrupt US media is busy trying to shut down anything at all Iran-friendly, anything falling short of pure blood war porn brought to you by Donald Trump and his political appointee, the CIA’s lionized mass (drone) murderer, Mike de Andrea. Is promoting war with Iranians your thing Lot? Will you enlist to go kill some Iranians to make the world safe for Jeff Bezos and the other billionaires of his ilk?

    My name is Anthony James Hall. I am a Canadian citizen in Lethbridge Alberta Canada and I’ve been Editor In Chief of American Herald Tribune since its inception. I responded to the ridiculous smear by CNN disinformation reporter, Donie O’ Sullivan here.

    CNN and Washington Post cite a study by a contractor in Milpitas California named Fire Eye (408 321-6300). I have read Fire Eye’s full report which is on-line. I don’t see in the report used to justify the smear of AHT a single actual reference to American Herald Tribune. Instead the report does some assessment of sites called Liberty Front Press, US Journal, Real Progress Front, British Left, Critics Chronicle and Instituto Manquehue. Until reading the Fire Fly report earlier today, I had never heard of any of these sites.

    To sum up, then CNN and Washington Post cite a study that has no information at all concerning the allegation supposedly rooted in Fire Eye’s (shoddy) research. In other words, the smear that Lot takes as credible reporting from credible sources, is not backed up by any evidence at all.

    CNN and Washington Post seem to picture themselves as media outlets for the Hillary Clinton Faction of the Democratic Party. There seems to be some media fiction in the USA that the Washington Post and CNN, both notorious CIA venues, are “liberal.” What bunk! These two news venues are both promoters of war. The two parties present dual aspects of the the same political machine that regularly tricks Americans into thinking that elections offer them a real range of options when it comes to the operation of the American war machine.

    American Herald Tribune is not promoting war with Iran like the fake news operations acting as cheer leaders trying to incite an Iran-US conflagration of the type that the government of Israel has been promoting for many years. The government of Israel seems to be getting its wish as they so often do with bought-and-paid-for US politicians. Its long past due for the thinking people of the USA to take the initiative and get the military megalith out of the cycle of fighting unending wars for Israel.

    Those who check it out will find that AHT is a site rich in informed commentary from a wide variety of perspectives. AHT is the real thing, not a caricature of news reporting like the CIA’s Mockingbird kookoos. American Herald Tribune derives its authority from a variety of gifted contributors from all over the world. We are proud to publish much of the cutting-edge and courageous work by Philip Giraldi. Dr. Giraldi stands at the front of a list of contributors extending to literally hundreds of writers of significant merit who submit essays to AHT. The essays of writers hosted at AHT will definitely bring readers much closer to the truth than the blatant and laughable propaganda at CNN and Washington Post.

    • Replies: @Lot
  17. Lot says:
    @Tony Hall

    “ If you believe the bunk published on CNN is more believable than what you here see at Unz”

    Ron had some fine authors like Sailer, Derbyshire, Thompson, Epigone, and Karlin. I don’t agree much with Cockburn but he has an interesting perspective.

    On the other hand, a number of them are just shills for Russia, Iran, or China. I think it is highly immoral to promote such shilling as these are all dictatorships and strategic adversaries of the USA and other Anglo nations.

    • Replies: @Oscar Peterson
    , @anonymous
  18. An E11 crashed due to weather???

    Did the Air Force and Navy forget to include “resistant to rain” in their specification?

    • Replies: @FB
  19. Crazy Horse says: • Website

    CNN that there’s a reliable source. (eye roll) Lot of Bullshit.

  20. Crazy Horse says: • Website

    I’m sure D’Andrea’s dead and the Mockingbird media is covering it up since they pretty much work for the CIA. Also it’s obvious because they are working the Glomar defense i.e. “can neither confirm deny” which usually means its true but the details are classified.

    The fact is when Hezbollah sets out to do something they usually accomplish it. Ask the Israelis who recently lost one of their general’s and their staff after they droned one of their media centers in Beirut.

  21. sarz says:

    I wonder, if Flynn at DIA was part of sabotaging anti-Assad efforts to arm Islamist terrorists, how does that square with the anti-Iran book that Flynn co-authored with Neocon Ledeen?

    Trumptards, to which company I confess I once belonged, in the days of Trump’s campaign took Flynn to be some sort of anti-war hero, mostly on hope. I have since revised my views of Trump as anti-war. He’s just had bad luck on that score. The revision would apply to Flynn, too. Is friend utu continuing with the old view of Trump and Flynn as anti-war rather than out-and-out Neocons (who dupe deplorables well when in election mode)?

    • Replies: @gg
    , @utu
  22. NPleeze says:

    The story seems improbable. What would a station chief be doing in the back of a communications plane?

    Let’s see – coordinating a drone strike? Engaging in reconnaissance? I.e., black ops or spying.

    Yes, I know, I’m genius to figure out these possibilities. 🙂

  23. bj0311 says:

    the United States has a recent track record of lying about nearly everything

    That is too funny–recent? How about perennial? And then there is the description of D’Andrea straight out of Amazon’s CIA recruitment show Jack Ryan.

    As a chain-smoking observant convert to Islam

    • Agree: El Dato
  24. El Dato says:

    This is the epoch of completely groundless conspiracy theories, which need some serious movie-level prequel/sequel-style retconning and general reality warps, for the sake of conspiracy theorizing.

    Reality: A Game by Hideo Kojima.

  25. El Dato says:

    > “Details here:”
    > Directs to Clinton News Network.

    Christos Jesusos, Lot you are completely bipolar.

  26. lysias says:

    On Mar. 24, 2012, the Washington Post published an article on “Roger”, chief of the CIA’s Counterterrorism Center, a chain-smoking convert to Islam.

  27. Bugsplat says:

    N.B. Lot’s panicky forum-sliding approximately one hour after comment 7. Here Lot picks a fight to get past something awkward. The brief delay is consistent with the bureaucratic deliberations of a JTRIG-type propaganda apparat. Doughty Keyboard Kommando Lot does succeed in attracting attention: 4 responses and 7 replies, some presumably from Lot’s employer to escalate the argument. How very validating!

    So what might have triggered our delicate little snowflakes at Impunity Central? D’Andrea as DO? That’s not so touchy – although it would be interesting to put D’Andrea’s tenure on a timeline with Epstein’s hijinx and in particular, with contemporaneous activity at Zorro Ranch. The trend at Langley is to give domestic operational facilities an attention-grabbing sideshow. When you call No Man’s island a nature preserve or call the CFC a police repository, people just laugh at you. A pedo whorehouse has greatly improved chaff potential.

    But that is not what got Lot’s panties in a bunch. You know what did it? Command responsibility. Iran and the SCO are enforcing it at gunpoint, in default of US response to the legally binding demands of treaty bodies, charter bodies, and special procedures. Rough justice is the most effective countermeasure to impunity in municipal law. When BMD Commanders experience consequences for their actions, judicial or otherwise, the grabass stops.

    So they’re gonna trot out ol’ Bill Buckley’s screaming skull to explain command responsibility to you assholes.

    • Replies: @Lot
  28. gg says:

    the fact is Trump has yet to start a new war or overthrow a government in a way that puts American lives at risk. All of the quasi warlike moves that trump has made seems, in my opinion, directly tied to the pressure he is feeling from congress, who are all warhawks, in the form of the Muller investigation and now impeachment.

    Even the Solimani killing, I do not think it was a coincidence that it happened in the middle of impeachment when Trump needed the votes of war hungry republican establishment types to survive a lynching – same thing is true when it comes to his strikes on Syria while the Muller report was going on.

    In reality an establishment political class on both sides of the aisle are relishing in the investigations and the impeachment bc it allows them to control Trump. The Dems impeach and call for his hanging and then the Neocons can make Trump do whatever they want bc he wants to avoid his own death at the hands of the mob when he is impeached and they are the only ones keeping that from happening. I wouldn’t be surprised if the entire impeachment affair was cooked up at the behest of both top establishment republicans and democrats working in concert.

  29. Lot says:

    Another example of PG fans having some screws loose.

    This is technically written in English, but….

  30. utu says:

    I think there are more factions than one-dimensional axis neocons vs. anti-war can explain. Too many actors there to be able to figure this out. One can ponder only questions.

    I believe that Israel is the key to understanding what was/is happening in Syria. Why Netanyahu gave a green light to Putin to save Assad regime in 2015? Why did Israel agree to introduce one more actor to the scene? Why did they want to stop the Syria destabilizing insurgency that was seemingly supported by both the neocons (and Israel) and also not so friendly to Israel Obama administration? Was Israel afraid that the vacuum left after Assad collapse would be filled by Turkey? Or is Russia there to control Iran in Syria and Lebanon?

    • Replies: @Oscar Peterson
  31. Rich says:

    The most interesting revelation, to me, in this article is that the Iranians are openly working with the Taliban. If they are supporting this terrorist group that murders civilians and our boys, it would seem to me that most patriotic Americans would want to see immediate retaliation against a state sponsor of terrorism. Of course, most have probably never met a serviceman who’s been involved in this conflict and many here seem to support the foreigner above the American. It’s a shame no one ever taught many of the commenters here, that when your countrymen are involved in a war,you back them. Work to end the war if that’s your cause, but for God’s sake, don’t support an enemy killing your fellow citizens.

  32. Bugsplat says:

    And heere’s comment 30, in which Lot plays dumb, and it’s not a stretch. Just goes to show, don’t send ASVAB waivers to do a man’s job. These little candyass cyber war rooms just don’t have the candlepower. It’s just as bad at the eunuchs’ auxiliary, NUIS – there’s nothing sadder than a dumb Jew. Then you get the epigenetically OCD ones, winding them up is more fun than a barrel of monkeys!

    Benjamin Yeshurun Sutchi’s sayanim and goyishe dupes are looking over their shoulders. He’s fully contact-chained, you know, wee wee wee all the way home.

  33. @utu

    Why Netanyahu gave a green light to Putin to save Assad regime in 2015?

    Yeah, it’s a good question.

    My view:

    It starts with Israeli/Jew concern that Obama was not going to get the job of overthrowing Assad done. Obama was very ambivalent about involvement in Syria and was caught between his anti-war grass roots and the warmongering (((political-media establishment.))) Also, I think that the warmongers were expecting Hilary to win in 2016, and though she is a shabbosgoy who will give Israel at least 80% of what it wants, she would have had some of the same constraints in Syria as Obama.

    The other background issue is Putin’s initiative, almost since the day he took office, to improve Russia-Israel relations, which had never been good except at the very beginning in the late 1940s. Putin plays his cards close to his vest, so what his game has been is open to debate, though I think at least a big part of it was the idea that making nice with Israel might help blunt anti-Russia sentiment in the US. The Chinese play that game as well.

    Given Israeli concerns about Obama and greatly improved Israel-Russia relations, Russia entry into Syria to “take control” of Assad was a good back up to Israel’s original plan to eliminate Assad and destroy the integrity of the Syrian state. It also had the potential benefit of promoting a rift between Russia and Iran while still leaving Israel almost entirely free to conduct its relentless terror operations in Lebanon and Syria.

    After November 2016, with Trump coming into power and becoming more shabbosgoyisch with every passing month, the Israeli calculation changed again somewhat. He had run on a platform of getting out of Syria, but has turned out to be a plaything of Israel and its American operatives. Putin wants things in exchange for anything he gives Israel. Trump, the “great negotiator” wants nothing but praise and money from Jews. The hostage crisis made him anti-Iran decades ago (as with many Americans) and left him easily influenced against Iran today.

    Now perhaps, there is some buyer’s remorse in Jerusalem about Russia’s role. “If we’d only known Trump was such a loyal shabbosgoy, we would have opposed any “deal” with Putin.” And whatever warm feelings Putin might have towards Israel, I don’t believe they are much shared elsewhere in Russia–especialy after the IL-20 shoot-down caused by IAF antics in Syria. (Still, it’s true that Israel hasn’t gotten quite everything it wanted from Trump. Trump has failed to embrace the Kurds and set them up in political entities that Israel can use to surveil and operate against Turkey and Iran.)

    So I agree with both your thoughts about concern over the disintegrating Turkey-Israel relationship and and the Russia-controlling-Iran-in-Syria thinking in Jerusalem.

    There is no question that in the short-medium term, Iran’s role in Syria has been diminished. But the US is sowing the wind by doubling down again and again on Israel’s demands for more anti-Iran violence. It’s all a big one-way bet on Israel driven by the demands of disloyal Jewry.

    What the US needs longer-term is Iran and Turkey on side, both with a broadly China-skeptical and Russia-skeptical attitudes. What we are doing is producing the very opposite.

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @sarz
  34. @Rich

    “The most interesting revelation, to me, in this article is that the Iranians are openly working with the Taliban.”

    And just where was that “revealed” in the article?

    More to the point, are you a scheming Jew or a groveling shabbosgoy?

    • Replies: @Rich
  35. The other possibility that this article does not raise is that Iran simply took advantage of an accidental E-11 crash to seed the notion that it might be retaliating for the assassination of Soleimani into the media for purely domestic purposes. The killing of Soleimani was a blow, and while Iran may well wait for an optimal opportunity to exact revenge, it may behoove it to give the Iranian people the idea that acts of vengeance are being carried out forthwith.

    • Agree: utu
  36. Rich waves his widdle fwag, “It’s a shame no one ever taught many of the commenters here, that when your countrymen are involved in a war, you back them.” What crap. Rich evidently never met any of his countrymen who got shipped to Nam. Then Rich would know that if your countrymen order you into stupid-ass losing wars, you frag their tiny weasel balls. Just like they fragged that ass-kissing sleeve Petraeus, that was great. “for God’s sake, don’t support an enemy killing your fellow citizens.” Iranians do the job when we can’t. They’re our fellow citizens of the world. The enemy is scumbags like D’Andrea, the kind of worm that shits on every law, torturing Assange to hide his crimes against humanity and peace.

  37. One would think that the opposition has their own deck of HVT cards.

    “Led the hunt for bin Laden.” The CIA was “hunting” their own asset. Unsuccessfully hunting through Clinton and Bush43. Only to bury the bin Laden project at sea, as part of an Obama PR project.

    “General Lewis W. Walt, the Marine commander of I Corps. Walt argued heatedly that the real target of the American effort should be the pacification and protection of the population”

    The USA needs to stop engaging in military adventures where the killing (pacification) of an indigenous population is the strategy being deployed to “protect” the same population. Did not work in Vietnam. Won’t work anywhere. USA is the Uninvited Invader.

    “Because we live here” is a strong motivator everywhere.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Oscar Peterson
  38. @Lot

    Either you over-tightened it a notch last time you tied a box to your head, or you overdid the mental-patient rocking and whacked your scone on something.

    Either way, being a shill for free is leaving shekels on the table, which is not sensible.

    • Replies: @Lot
  39. utu says:

    “… as part of an Obama PR project” – That’s what it was. And timing wa very important. Obama was announcing to run for the second term (April 4). His birth certificate was released (April 27). Trump and all birthers were being ridiculed at White House correspondents dinner (April 30) while the operation to get Osama was in progress. Then great hurrah that Obama got Osama (May 2), a mini crowd for hire chants USA, USA, USA in front of White House. Very successful PR operation.

    • Replies: @anon
  40. @SaneClownPosse

    “Walt argued heatedly that the real target of the American effort should be the pacification and protection of the population”

    The problem is that these two are quite likely to be in conflict. “Pacification of the population” is likely to be quite aggressive, to say the least. That’s why most would rather talk only about “protecting the people.” It’s also why we don’t like to study our own successful COIN episodes–Philippines, South Korea, American Indians–because the pacification in each case was so brutal.

  41. while directed drone strikes against al-Qaeda targets in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, Yemen and Iraq. As a chain-smoking observant convert to Islam,

    Given the list of countries, it would seem that he was not so much a convert to Islam as convert to Wahabbism, and the targets weren’t al Qeada, since it doesn’t exist.

  42. NPleeze says:

    the Iranians are openly working with the Taliban

    Not really stated, but Americans have worked with them, al Qaeda and ISIS – even armed them all.

    most patriotic Americans would want to see immediate retaliation against a state sponsor of terrorism

    If that were true, the US government would have been overthrow long ago. As it stands, most Americans support the US, which is by far the planet’s largest open and covert terrorist and sponsor of terrorism (the US’ BFF, ZioNazi Israel, Savage UK and Saudi Barbaria are all runners up).

    when your countrymen are involved in a war,you back them

    Actually, I’m happy to back them mutinying against the ZioNazi and other warmonger scum in Washington and the Pentagon. As to murdering people abroad, sorry, that’s a war crime, and there’s just no excuse for that.

  43. Lot says:

    “Either way, being a shill for free is leaving shekels on the table”

    It’s always about money with you Iranians!

    • Replies: @Oscar Peterson
    , @NPleeze
  44. Rich says:
    @Oscar Peterson

    4th paragraph, second sentence. I expect, that since Dr Giraldi is a retired CIA operative, his contacts have confirmed to him that his statement “the Iranians, who are cooperating with the Taliban against US forces” is true. When you back Iran, you’re backing those killing your fellow Americans. You feel good about that?

    • Replies: @Oscar Peterson
  45. @Lot

    On the other hand, a number of them are just shills for Russia, Iran, or China. I think it is highly immoral to promote such shilling as these are all dictatorships and strategic adversaries of the USA and other Anglo nations.

    The only shill here, sweet Jew, is you, pushing the interests of the tribe day in and day out, as you and others of your ilk try to insinuate yourselves into the cultural right.

    Your claim of Iran and China “shills” at this site is ludicrous.

    What we have here are writers who argue–correctly–that our strategically vacuous policies with regard to Iran, Turkey and the Middle East are counter to US strategic interests and subordinated to the rapacious, Judeosupremacist goals of Großisrael. Neither PG nor anyone else here has any meaningful remunerative or psychological attachment to Iran, and the commentary here on the Middle East is is a refreshing antidote to what we get from our mendacious, Jew-ridden media. By contrast, it’s clear that our conniving Jews-in-residence are inextricably attached to the Judenreich and international Jewry. So the bias is all in your mirror.

    There is much less China coverage, but it too provides a useful corrective to one-sided MSM narratives. China deserves careful analysis and criticism, but exposing the nonsense that is being spewed out on that subject is equally important. Media coverage of HK, so-called “debt-trap diplomacy,” largely evidence-free claims about the Uighurs, and much else is infantile and deserves cross-examination, and that’s hard to find among our mainstream “journalists.”

    The Saker, Israel Shamir and others do have some attachment to Russia, but even there, their views are a tiny drop in the sea of mindless anti-Russia blathering in the larger media environment and, on balance, quite useful, given the relentless, propagandistic tone of the MSM on Russia.

    Amusing to hear you labeling anything as “highly immoral” when, as a scheming and nefarious, tribalistic Jew, your moral conceptions are deformed from the get-go. And the faux-patriotic tone of your comment is so obviously calculated that it becomes almost a parody of itself.

    • LOL: Lot
    • Replies: @Oscar Peterson
  46. @Lot

    Then let Israel go about the business of thrusting Judaea and Samaria into its slavering maw by itself, and let it go its own way, with Americans freed of the burden of subsidizing its unlovely denizens and of fending off the understandable revulsion of the rest of the world.

  47. @Rich

    If they are supporting this terrorist group that murders civilians and our boys,

    I wasn’t aware that the Taliban had killed any of your Israeli “boys”.

  48. @Rich

    It’s no “revelation” that Iran has episodically cooperated with the Taliban in retaliation for the Israel-induced targeting of Iran, my little conniver. Absent aggressive attempts at regime change in Iran in pursuit of untrammeled Israeli regional hegemony, there would be no retaliation. This is what we get for acting as Israel’s golem.

    It’s a far cry from the situation in 2001 when the Iranians provided significant assistance to the US against the Taliban. We took their help and then immediately placed them on the “Axis of Evil” along with Iraq and North Korea expecting to generate regime change in Iran after the planned regime change in Iraq.

    And we had little problem cooperating with the Taliban when they were murdering Iranian diplomats in Mazar i Sharif in the late 1990s.

    But what do you mean when you refer to “those killing your fellow Americans”? Which Americans are you talking about, and when were they killed? Iranians are not killing Americans, although we are assassinating senior Iranian officers at the behest of Judeosupremacist Israel.

    Are you just making stuff up, sweet one?

    • Replies: @Rich
  49. FB says: • Website
    @Genrick Yagoda

    An E11 crashed due to weather???

    Not likely…The E11 is a Bombardier Global Express…which is a large bizjet…nearly the size of the original B737…

    This kind of airplane doesn’t just fall out of the sky like a Piper Cub…

    There have been 816 of these built since 1996 intro…with exactly ZERO fatal crashes…until this event…

    Also, VOA reported five dead…with two bodies recovered and three ‘unaccounted for’…

    Weather…not bloody likely…especially in wintertime when convective activity [thunderstorms, the big weather hazard to aviation] is at a minimum…

    It could be a crash…we can’t rule that out, on just the sketchy info we have…but it would have to have been the result of a very unlikely accident chain that involved multiple system failures and pilot errors…

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  50. anonymous[374] • Disclaimer says:

    Agree on the authors except for Derbyshire. Giraldi is also among the Tier 1 authors here.

    • Replies: @Lot
  51. sarz says:
    @Oscar Peterson

    Would you or utu please spell out the green light as you see it.

    If you read Israel Shamir at Unz on Putin and the Israelis you will get a different idea of the scenario.

    • Replies: @Oscar Peterson
  52. NPleeze says:

    The invader Jew terrorists and barbarians belong at the bottom of the Mediterranean sea.

  53. journey80 says:
    @Gordon Pratt

    Wouldn’t he make an appearance and prove that he still lives?

  54. @sarz

    Well, if you mean spelling out the interaction between Russia and Israel leading up to the Russian intervention, then I can only say that I don’t know.

    Perhaps “green light” is a misleading phrase. But the bottom line for me is that Israel had ushed the overthrow of Assad for a long time–before the anti-Assad mass violence beginning in 2011.

    All things being equal, one would have expected them to viscerally oppose Russian involvement that was intended to rescue and stabilize the Assad government which was certainly in a very dangerous situation in 2015 despite Iranian support.

    But the Russian intervention did not elicit opposition from Israel nor calls from its operatives in the US for the American golem state to block or impede it. And right-wing Israeli sites like Debka were announcing that the Russian entrance was impending well before the MSM started to talk about it.

    Later, when the situation had shifted and with Trump in the WH, Israel promoted and supported the missile strikes against Syria on the ludicrous pretext of supposed SAG chemical weapon use even though those attacks put Russia in a difficult position, so the Russia-Israel entente was far from an iron-clad alliance, and Russia’s repeated refusal to dump Iran over the side has always limited the scope of the entente.

    Beyond that, I’ve pretty much said what I have to say on the subject in my previous post.

    What conclusions do you draw from the episode?

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @sarz
  55. @Oscar Peterson

    LOL: Lot

    When you have no idea how to respond, I suppose “LOL” and a headlong retreat is probably the best way to go.

    • Disagree: Lot
  56. sarz says:
    @Oscar Peterson

    Good to have your view. Thanks.

    My own overall take is that Putin and Putin’s Russia are understandably soft on Israel, to a point. There are many Russians there (mostly fake Jews) including a favorite (Jewish) teacher of Putin’s for whom he bought an apartment there. But it’s mostly reasons of state, and the Israelis are well aware of the Islamist danger to Russia if such forces take over Syria. There’s only so far they can push.

    Russia’s basic stance is to preserve its sovereign status against the designs of globalism. So Russia needs Eurasia, and China snd Iran are central to that. However, Russia will not be drawn into avoidable fights between other states. So it puts up with Israeli pinpricks against Syria.

    No one talks about Russia’s nuclear policy in this context, though it has been unambiguously if tactfully stated. At his annual press conference in 2018 Putin solemnly pronounced:

    I believe it my duty to say this: any use of nuclear weapons of any yield—small, medium or whatever—against Russia or its allies will be regarded as a nuclear attack against our country. Retaliation will be instant with all the ensuing consequences.

    He waited a year and a half to drop the other shoe. There was a much-heralded meeting in Jerusalem between Russia, Israel and the US, prior to which it was widely speculated that Putin was doing some sort of surrender. But the headlines in Israel following the meeting, between Bolton, Netanyahu and Patrushev (Russia’s national security advisor and a close friend of Putin) only said, Russia declares Iran is an ally.

    This was directed at both the other parties, not just Israel but more importantly Trump, who had at great expense had the American arsenal fitted with “usable” nukes—for Iran. So that’s the bigger picture. Patrushev probably spelled out for Bolton and Netanyahu something like if even a small nuke is used against Iran, half an hour later the base from which it came will be gone. Putin also explicitly has stated that if it comes to nuclear war, Russians will go God as Christians. (Trump knows that, but he thinks he has some special art of the deal, so the US has just deployed a sub with small nukes.)

    • Agree: Oscar Peterson
    • Replies: @Oikeamielinen
  57. There’s one for sure way to put an end to the targeted assassination of Iranians. The Iranians have to start nailing high ranking Israeli officials where ever they can get them.

  58. Tony Hall says:

    The ideas I floated in response to Lot have been developed. The comments I floated in this thread about American Herald Tribune, Washington Post etc I wrote up in AHT. The AHT essay has been picked up by Unz. Its my first essay on Unz. Please check it out.

  59. Rich says:
    @Oscar Peterson

    “Sweet one”? What do you think you’re on “grinder”? Sorry, I don’t play that way.

    I’m happy that after rereading the article you were better able to understand what I wrote, even if you still don’t understand that if the Iranians are providing support to the terrorists killing American servicemen, they should face retaliation.

    • Replies: @Oscar Peterson
  60. Lot says:

    “ Agree on the authors except for Derbyshire.”

    I’ve been a fan since the 1990s.

    I like how he drives the antisemites nuts: he obviously isn’t PC and even was fired from NR over this, but on the whole JQ he’s just a philosemite!

    Derb: right back at ya, my favorite foreigners are the British (and the Dutch) (just not the cuisine!).

  61. @Rich

    “What do you think you’re on ‘grinder’?”

    Now don’t try and pink-wash the issue, Jud Süß. I know that’s how you connivers like to operate.

    I reiterate my question about your evidence-free claims. Your assertion was: Iran is “killing your fellow Americans.” First, I notice you say “your” and not “our.” What passport(s) do you hold, dear one? And as I asked before: Which Americans are you talking about, and when were they killed?

    Surely you’re not the kind of slimy, deceitful, little Jew who is scheming to get Americans into a war against Iran on behalf of the “shitty little country,” are you?

  62. Rich says:

    I’m Roman Catholic, born and raised in NY and a US Army vet. Don’t know where you come up with this “Jew” thing. I will admit that I dated a couple of Jewish girls when I was a kid, and had several Jewish friends, but that’s all. When Israel acts like an ally, I support them. If they act against US interests, then I’m against them. Very simple.

    It’s very simple for anyone to look at what I wrote and see that you have to outright lie in order to try to save a little face. I wrote that “the Iranians are openly working with the Taliban.” I do agree with you in the sense that in openly working with these vicious murderers, they have contributed to the death of Americans. You’d rather get in bed with Shiite murderers, than support American service members, because you don’t like Jews. Shouldn’t you then prefer an expanded Israel where all the world’s Jews could live?

    • Replies: @Oscar Peterson
  63. @sarz

    You construct complicated scenarios about Russian actions. Maybe you have the right idea, I don’t know.
    I figure that Russia is simply talking to the boss instead of underlings when dealing with invaders in the Middle East.

  64. Rich, get it through your thick skull. Criminals are criminals. We don’t give a fuck if they’re American service members or Tanganyikan rodeo stars. Criminals get prosecuted or extradited. Or whacked. D’Andrea is hostis humani generis with command responsibility for systematic and widespread murder. Fuck him and the grunts he rode in on. Nobody’s gonna genuflect for your America shit.

    • Agree: NoseytheDuke
    • Replies: @Oikeamielinen
    , @Parfois1
  65. Stop eroding any trust I have left.

  66. @Rich

    “Don’t know where you come up with this “Jew” thing.”


    It sometimes requires the allegation of Jew-ness to elicit a response that distinguishes between Jew schemers and witless shabbosgoyim. Now I know where to pigeonhole you.

    You say you oppose Israel when they act against our interests. When has the establishment or expansion of the Judeosupremacist state ever been in US interests?

    It’s true that Iran did support Shia groups that were targeting us in Iraq in the 2004-2010 period and did (indirectly) kill US soldiers and marines. But what did we expect? We invaded Iraq at the instigation of organized Jewry, Jew intellectuals and Sharon/Bibi with the ultimate goal of regime-changing Iran as well. What did you think they would do? Wait until we had stabilized Iraq under our control and started to go to work on them?

    There is no reason for us to have turned Iran and, provisionally, Turkey into adversaries. They both dislike the Russians historically and neither has anything much in common with China except for oil sales. And yet, in order to pursue a relentlessly Israel-centric regime change policy in the Middle East, we have sacrificed our own strategic well being and left Iraq and Syria in ruins.

    I reiterate my question for the third time: You said, using the present tense, that Iran is killing US military personnel. What specifically are you talking about?

    You seem to think of yourself as a realpolitik kinda guy, but I’m here to tell you you’re not. Your perspective is obviously generated entirely by our Jew-dominated media and commentariat.

    If you’re concerned about the deaths of US service members, then back away from your shabbosgoy understanding of what is going on in the Middle East and develop a comprehension of the central role organized Jewry has played in getting us into the morass we now find ourselves in.

    • Replies: @Rich
    , @NoseytheDuke
    , @Parfois1
  67. Rich says:
    @Oscar Peterson

    Where did I write “that Iran is killing US military personnel”? I’ve gone over my comments and don’t see that line anywhere. I wrote that if they were supporting those killing Americans, they should face retaliation.

    I’m not sure how an expanded Israel hurts the US. They are a pretty solid ally, whereas the other players in the region are unreliable to say the least. I won’t trust the Turks until they give back Constantinople.

    • Replies: @Oscar Peterson
  68. @Rich

    It sounds like you’re playing word games.

    In your original post (#32) you demanded of other posters: “don’t support an enemy killing your fellow citizens.” Who is the enemy you were referring to? I mean, it’s quite clear from the comments that no one is favorably disposed towards the Taliban per se, and the whole thrust of your original post was Iran as a threat. So were you not referring to Iran there?

    “I’m not sure how an expanded Israel hurts the US. They are a pretty solid ally…”

    Why do you think Israel is a “solid ally?” An ally should be a strategic asset. Israel is simply a strategic liability masquerading as a strategic asset. Israel and its operatives in the US are the classic pyromanic-fireman who starts conflagrations and then presents himself as the solution to the problems he creates for the US.

    Why do you think we invaded Iraq? Why have we left Syria in ruins? Why are we giving away the Golan, Jerusalem, and now most of the rest of the West Bank to Israel? What do we get out of this? Why are we alienating the key players in the region and pushing them towards Russia and China?

    One word alone suffices: Israel.

  69. @Oscar Peterson

    In other words, a true American patriot would know that the best way to protect and preserve the lives of American troops is to bring them home and station them where they can really serve American national and defence interests. Rich is both naive and completely misinformed.

    • Replies: @Oscar Peterson
  70. Tony Hall says:


    You comment Rich

    I’m not sure how an expanded Israel hurts the US. They are a pretty solid ally….

    Yikes. Where to start?

    Well, for starters much evidence points to Jeffrey Epstein being at the centre of a Mossad operation to make sure US politicians, opinion makers, jurists and such stick to the “solid ally” interpretation in their voting, public commenting, judging etc etc. The key to this operation was to video demoralized young people and horny older people having sex. A primary object of the process was to have dirt on any future resisters to the “solid ally” interpretation so that they can be blackmailed. This evidence supporting this interpretation cannot be swept aside with the usual “conspiracy theory” justification for the exercise of unaccountable power.

    Epstein was the key figure in this very elaborate operation involving, for instance, a prince, a current US president, a past US president and probably thousands of others potential blackmail victims. After carrying on in this way for decades without any legal accountability (save a really stinky sweetheart deal of feigned incarceration), Epstein was finally caught, charged and incarcerated. He was jailed awaiting trial in New York.

    Then suddenly Epstein was made to just disappear, maybe through suicide, maybe through murder or maybe by being spirited away to continue his life under a new identity. Officials in and around the US relationship with the “solid ally” can’t really say what happened to the engineer of the blackmail operation. Because of this completely unacceptable failure going to the very top criminal justice system, US citizens must deal with a huge loss to the integrity of the idea that there is any such thing as a credible system of law enforcement. Apparently pretty much anything will be sacrificed when it comes to protecting the existing relationship with the “solid ally.”

    This episode provides yet another example that this twisted perverse way of maintaining relations with the “solid ally” must not be exposed on open court; the blackmail operation must be saved no matter how great the costs to the primary victims, namely the demoralized youth that Epstein and company devoured in the course of this sick operation

    This case study is just an example of how the relationship with the “solid ally” is in fact constructed. If people can’t get worked up to challenge an alliance rooted in sexual predations on our youth in order to advance agendas including a never ending stream of US wars for Israel, what will work them up?

    • Disagree: Rich
  71. @NoseytheDuke

    Well, there’s always hope of enlightenment. But yeah, if you’re getting your info off the standard hymn sheet from the amen corner, you will certainly be pointed in the wrong direction.

  72. Anonymous[866] • Disclaimer says:

    I’ve been a firsthand observer of Afghan wars, on & off, since 1987. Among the most striking aspects of the US failure here is that we have managed to lose despite unchallenged air superiority.
    When Afghanistan was a Cold War proxy battleground, US supplies of Stinger missiles to the mujahideen – starting about 1986 – turned the tide militarily against Soviet occupation forces. Before that, things were looking grim for the muj. Some of us still recall US spooks’ & diplomats’ cynical willingness to ‘fight to the last Afghan [mujahid],’ an eventuality that – pre-Stinger – seemed quite likely.
    Nowadays US forces routinely resupply outlying bases and move personnel via low-altitude, broad-daylight helicopter flights, dozens of flights a day – just above small-arms range, like the Soviets before the muj got Stingers. These flights – unlike, under ordinary circumstances, a relatively high-altitude reconnaissance aircraft – would be very vulnerable to man-portable SAMs. Given the risk-averse mindset of US commanders, having just one routine chopper flight shot down by a SAM would paralyze resupply & movement for days or weeks, crippling residual US anti-Taliban operations here. Why would the Taliban take irrational potshots at reconnaissance aircraft, when they could dramatically reshape the conflict in their favor by picking off a sitting-duck supply chopper?
    It’s hard to take Giraldi seriously, not because he ‘works for an Iranian propaganda front’: Since it’s CNN claiming that, it’s likely false. It’s not because Giraldi thinks US officials are pathologic liars: Indeed they often lie even when the truth would serve them better.
    It’s not just because of his fixation on a single (purported) US official, details of whose identity & background Giraldi substantiates largely with questionable reportage by the Washington Post. But that gets us closer to the mark.
    The problem is that Giraldi ignores the forest for the trees: If Iran or Pakistan or some other country has dramatically upped the ante in Afghanistan by supplying the Taliban with SAMs, that’s the story, there’s your headline – not the speculative death of a speculative CIA official in the speculative ‘shoot-down’ of a reconnaissance aircraft that, simply reckoning Afghan plane-crash odds, more likely crashed due to bad weather. (Obviously, if the Taliban have more robust, vehicle-mounted SAMs, capable of shooting down a high-altitude surveillance plane, that’s an even bigger story.)
    Our intelligence on Afghanistan was never very good. In the past couple decades, it’s gotten worse, with respect not just to Afghanistan but elsewhere, notably Russia. Paradoxically, this has happened even as our surveillance technology has progressed to near Orwellian efficacy & penetration. So I’m willing to hear out a disgruntled former spook, but only up to the point he starts spewing the same kind of drivel that his erstwhile colleagues churn out, from the opposite ideological standpoint.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  73. @Anonymous

    Why would the Taliban take irrational potshots at reconnaissance aircraft, when they could dramatically reshape the conflict in their favor by picking off a sitting-duck supply chopper?

    The Taliban leadership would possibly agree with you but the reality is that the people actually using the weapons are unsophisticated, barely literate and somewhat fanatical fighters who live to expel the unwelcome foreign invaders. They have been trained to use the weapons they are supplied with and would likely aim at any aircraft of any type, secure in the knowledge that it is one of their enemy.

  74. anon[508] • Disclaimer says:

    a mini crowd for hire chants USA, USA, USA in front of White House. Very successful PR operation.

    I’d forgotten about that.

    I took screen shots of that hired crowd.
    Several of the rowdies wore sweatshirts from Jewish fraternity from University of MD.
    prolly just a coincidence.

  75. Parfois1 says:
    @Crispy Mike

    Rich, get it through your thick skull. Criminals are criminals.

    Well! That’s a concise and crisp answer alright – and it tells a lot too. Criminals are the same all over the world – even the ones at home – maybe especially the ones at home because they are too close for comfort.

  76. Parfois1 says:
    @Oscar Peterson

    You say you oppose Israel when they act against our interests. When has the establishment or expansion of the Judeosupremacist state ever been in US interests?

    Spot on! One detects one’s Jewishness by deeds and words. A neutral outsider holds his judgement, deeds and words and does not consistently side with one party to a contest. If he does, he declares which side he is on. If he sides with the criminals, it is because he is one of them, thinks like them or, the worst kind, is paid by them.

  77. @FB

    Yeah crash or not… I found it strange that the plane was so “empty”… Would there really be a reason it was flying over that area with only 2 people aboard as reported by the MSM…?? I don’t know the answer to that – but it again would seem peculiar – accident or no accident.

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