The Unz Review: An Alternative Media Selection
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 BlogviewPhilip Giraldi Archive
The Annual Armenian Genocide Bloviation
🔊 Listen RSS
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeThanksLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Thanks, LOL, or Troll with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used three times during any eight hour period.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

America’s congress cannot reform health care but will be able to vote tomorrow on the annual Armenian Genocide resolution. I have already provided my opinion of a non-binding resolution that accomplishes nothing but “accountability,” whatever that means, for a genocide that took place nearly one hundred years ago under a government that no longer exists. There have been more recent genocides that the US has not commemorated in any way, suggesting that the whole exercise is part and parcel of the usual political hypocrisy that has made the US Congress famous. In terms of the US national interest all it does is further damage relations with a key ally.

Every year the resolution lives or dies based on a key but never openly verbalized question: what does Israel want? This year, Israel is somewhat chagrined by Turkish refusal to see last year’s Gaza carnage as a measured response, but remarks by Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak would seem to indicate that Tel Aviv still values the relationship, unleashing AIPAC to make sure that each and every congressman votes the right way. Having received its instructions, the US Congress will likely genuflect and do as it is told, allowing the resolution to languish in committee just as it did last year. All the resolution really does is make both Armenians and Turks angry and it probably doesn’t do much good for Israel either.

(Republished from The American Conservative by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: Armenians 
Hide 27 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
    []
  1. Mark says:

    I never understood why American conservatives “Christians” are always against a vote that aptly describes the butchering of not only Armenian Christians, but Assyrian and Greek Christians as well. I thought America was a Christian nation. Do we not have any guilt that we are allies with the country responsible for the destruction of Christianity in the Middle-East? Before WWI, Eastern Turkey and Northern Syria/Iraq were once 40% Christian. Now it is more like 4% Christian. I wonder why, where did these people all go? These people were all butchered or converted because they were “infidels” and a threat to Muslim homogony.
    And if you want to know how it relates to today, take a look at the million Christian refugees the Iraq war has generated. Yet American Christians hardly say a peep about this. Why are military links to these barbarians more important than Christian life to American Christians?

  2. Anonymous • Disclaimer says: • Website

    The U.S. Congress has, appropriately, condemned and commemorated the Holocaust, the Ukrainian, Cambodian, Rwandan, Bosnian, and Darfur genocides, as well as American slavery and the internment of Japanese Americans during World War II.

    All the Armenian Genocide Resolution asks is that we honor the memories of the fallen and put the lessons of this terrible atrocity to work in preventing future genocides. The only interests against its adoption are in Ankara (plus the lobbyists they pay here in America).

    Here’s a briefing book that the ANCA has prepared outlining the reasons Congress should adopt this genocide prevention measure:
    http://www.anca.org/endthegagrule/briefingbook.pdf

  3. TomB says:

    Mark, you make not just a good but a deep point: For some reason the slaughter or abuse of Christians all over today seems to be not worth mentioning. When you read references to the Bolshevik regime for instance, while they may note its terror and horror, for some reason you never seem to see the slightest perception that to a preponderant, simply huge degree that terror and horror was perpetrated on Russia’s Christians.

    Nevertheless I sense that the conservative reaction against such an Armenian vote stems from the same sources that make me very dubious about it: It’s just grandstanding, and has not only become actual ugly thing beyond that given the influence that AIPAC has disgustingl brought to bear on it, but it will only help further ugliness too.

    That is, once you get into the horror-recognition business, where do you stop? Start running around and condemning this or that specifically, and you know you can’t ever really be fair doing so. You know that politics is going to get into it and poison what you’ve done. So why start? And why, once started and seeing what’s happened, continue?

    Moreover as Giraldi somewhat notes, is *this* what the US Congress was designed to do? To be The Moral Foghorn Of The World? *Those* pygmies?

    In the aftermath of the first half of the last century I could see a somber resolution, say, that just condemned *all* the violations of all human rights that had gone on in the world during that mad time and all the sorrow and suffering that resulted. And I could see such a thing further pointing out that it was no accident that at the same time you saw the institutionalization of such violations you also saw the two most frightful wars the world had ever seen. To me, while still limited, at least it wouldn’t seem cheap and could carry about the most moral weight possible for such a thing, and it could also be made to avoid having an unseemly immodesty by noting that our nation speaks on such matters with perhaps some special understanding due toour happy experience with our Bill of Rights.

    Much more than that though and … what moral weight is carried by anything that might be said by Congress? Given the grotesque political ball this Armenian thing has become, even if it passes now who really is going to do anything but cynically snicker at Congress for passing it? Who really believes that those 535 creatures wouldn’t vote for in favor of cannibalism if it helped their campaign coffers?

    In this then I differ from Giraldi, but in his same direction: It’s not anymore even that passing such a thing does nothing, it does *worse* by cheapening what happened. Surely without it the Armenian people must know that the people of the United States in no way condone what was done. Could they really feel better just because our Congress speaks well of them?

    Nuts. Congress tells the average American every day how much they work and care for them; look how that works out.

  4. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    As a conservative, I am amazed when fellow conservatives make such silly arguments like “we need Turkey as an ally.” Since when do we conservatives cower to the whims of an Islamic country (1) who did not allow us to open a northern front in the war against Iraq, (2) whose population feverishly dislikes America and its values (see the Pew Center’s latest poll, which shows that only 12 percent of the Turks like the United States—fewer, even, than the percentage of Pakistanis), (3) whose Prime Minister described Israel as a genocidal regime, (4) which threatens that its Jewish population cannot be protected if the US Congress adopts the Armenian Genocide Resolution, and (5) where Mein Kampf is a bestseller (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/mar/29/turkey.books)?

    If you wanted to be truly federalist in your approach, you would not commemorate the Armenian Genocide but you would also not commemorate the Holocaust or the Ukrainian, Cambodian, Rwandan, Bosnian, and Darfur genocides. Whether we believe it is Congresses role to do so or not, the fact is that the Congress does commemorate those and it should do likewise regarding the first genocide of the 20th century. A genocide of a Christian population by an Islamic regime done solely to wipe Christians off Turkish soil.

    Mr. Giraldi seems to want to take a page from the Obama playbook and show our Turkish “allies” that we care and are willing to be complicit in their current crime of Genocide denial. That’s neither American nor Conservative.

  5. Dear Mr. Giraldi

    Armenians in Ottoman Turkey were often called the ‘Yankees of the East’ because of the influence of American missionaries who were scattered throughout the Ottoman Empire working among the Armenians. Americans witnessed the Armenian Genocide sparking America’s largest humanitarian relief response to an international tragedy at the time. The Near East Relief was established in America to help save the victims of the genocide. The fund was so extensive that every state in America had a committee. Americans raised over 100 million dollars at the time, sent over 500 relief workers and established over 250 orphanages and relief stations. This is all heavily documented in the U.S. archives. Recognising the Armenian Genocide is recognising an important part of AMERICAN HISTORY.

  6. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    What writer Phillip Giraldi fails to mention in his politically correct article is that TRUTH is important. If not we are destined to repeat the cycle of worldwide genocides that exist every day. As an American I am understanding that politically correct vs. Truth are seperate.
    Accountability is important whether this genocide occured 1 day ago or 95 years ago. As this sets up the enabling process for future genocides and giving a free “pass” to countries to forget their dark past and consequences.
    Our politicans need to grow some courage and not allow Turkey to threaten or intimate by stating “recognition of the Armenian Genocide would damage US/Turkish relations”
    First of all Turkey needs the USA more than we need them.
    Our politicians have allowed Turkey to place a gag order on the TRUTH.
    The amount of money in Gephardt and Hastert’s pockets by the Turkish Government to squash the Armenian Genocide recognition makes me ashamed to be an American. Hastert alone receives $45,000 a month.
    Our leaders don’t have any courage or guts anymore. They know of Turkey’s attempt to bury their dirty past, it is well documented and has been for over 95 years. Changing the name of your country from the Ottoman Empire and destroying records internally related to the “deportation” (wink-wink) and excecution, mass murders of Armenians and other ethnic group doesn’t give the Republic of Turkey today a free pass nor did it give Germany the right to forget about the Nazi regime.
    Long before the Ottoman Empire there was the Byzantium Christian Kingdom – the true seat of Christianity. The Greeks, Armenians, Pontic Greeks, Assyrians, etc., all lived peacefully. Our beloved Constaniople was a major Christian capital tolerent of all people. Today it is Istanbul where the Turkish people have attempted to erase any hint of a free and democratic Christian people by destroying most of our people and churches. They have threatened and intimidated Patriarch Bartholomew of the Eastern Orthodox Church to the point where death threats from Turkish Nationalists are common place. Many of you may recall that over 20 years ago Pope John Paul II was shot by a Turkish nationalist – as an assault on Freedom of Religion and Christianity.
    Freedom of speech is something that America has long been a supporter of. How can our politicians support a country that imposes penal code 301 and imprisons citizens for even mentioning the TRUTH? Mr. Gilardi should be glad he lives in America as his article would have landed him in Jail, if he was a Turkish citizen for the mere mention of the Armenian Genocide. Why is Turkey ashamed of their dark past?
    Many countries throughout the world have already recognized the Armenian Genocide after recieving similiar threats from the Republic of Turkey and it hasn’t hurt their import/export or relations with Turkey.
    Lastly, no American should romance the idea that Turkey is an important Moslem ally of the USA. Turkey and Turkish people have a big dislike for America and openly criticized the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan. Once such popular Turkish movie portrays the American military as a bunch of blood hungry, oil loving animals. This is what our fake ally Turkey REALLY thinks of the USA.

  7. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I like to ask to non-Armenians and non-Turks here: how many of you has actually read an academic piece written on this issue from both sides? I am not talking about news bites, politician statements.

    All I hear is that this genocide thing has occured and accepted by historians. Come on name one historian..Yet, I can name 2 dozens who dispute it, including most famous being a western based Islamic scholar Bernhard Lewis.
    Show me some impirical evidence. Do not act under religious zelous.

    Yes we all want to feel rightous by siding with victims. When someoen claims to be a victim, we support him/her. It is in our nature. So, we are biased always towards to accuser.

    Before you support a disputed historical claim, study it acurately by reading all sides, and make your mind….

    Is this too much to ask?

  8. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Dear All Turk,

    Isn’t it quite ironic that Bernard Lewis once called the Armenian Genocide, “the 1915 holocaust” before selling out to the Turkish government?

    However, for your information, we can also name Yehuda Bauer, Lucy Dawidowicz, Howard Zinn, Yair Auron, the International Association of Genocide Scholars and lots of others as far as historians, and Raphael Lemkin, Gisèle Littman, Noam Chomsky, Howard Zinn, Elie Wiesel, and about 53 Nobel Laureates as far as non-historian scholars.

  9. “All Turk” : you lost me at Bernard Lewis.

  10. I’ll bet there is one congressman that won’t vote for this silly waste of time. We all know who it is.

  11. KP says:

    Dear Mr. Giraldi,

    This resolution may pass committee, but it will never pass the full house or senate. Why?

    Because Turk hating Armenians have filled politicians coffers with millions upon millions of dollars since the 1970s. Passing the resolution would put an end to all those political donations.

    For example, Senator Menendez of NJ, one of the most vociferous advocates of stoning the Republic of Turkey, which didn’t even exist at the time, alone has benefited to the tune of over $136,000 Armenian donations, counting only donations of $250 or more (for details see http://www.poligazette.com/2008/08/05/buying-policies/ ). Why would our esteemed representatives chew off the hand that continually feeds them?

    As for 3rd party historians that dispute the genocide label, there are many. Here is a partial list–

    1. William Batkay, Associate Professor at Montclair State University

    2. Arend-Jan Boekestein, Professor International Relations at Utrecht University and also Member of Parliament in The Netherlands

    3. Levon Panos Dabagyan, Armenian historian and writer

    4. Roderic Davidson (RIP), former Professor at George Washington University

    5. Paul Dumont, Professor at Strasbourg-II University, Director of the Institut Français d’études Anatoliennes (French Institute of Anatolian Studies, Istanbul)

    6. Gwynne Dyer, Ph.D. in Ottoman Military History

    7. Edward J. Erickson, Ph.D. in Ottoman Military History, Researcher at Birmingham University

    8. David Fromkin, Professor at Boston University

    9. Edwin A. Grosvenor

    10. Michael M. Gunter, Professor at Tennessee University

    11. E.Y. Hooijmaaijers, Rijksuniversiteit Groningen, The Netherlands

    12. J.C. Hurwitz, former Professor at Columbia University

    13. Eberhard Jäckel, Professor Emeritus at Stuttgart University

    14. Steven T. Katz

    15. Avigdor Levy, Professor at Brandeis University

    16. Bernard Lewis, Professor Emeritus at Princeton University

    17. Guenter Lewy, Professor Emeritus at Massachusetts University

    18. Heath Lowry, Professor at Princeton University

    19. Andrew Mango, Researcher at University of London

    20. Peter Mansfield, Professor of Middle East Politics at Willamette University, Oregon

    21.Robert Mantran (RIP), former Professor of Turkish and Ottoman History at Aix-Marseille University

    22. Justin McCarthy, Professor at Louisville University

    23. Pierre Nora, former Professor at School of High Studies in Social Sciences (École des Hautes Etudes en Sciences Sociales, Paris), Member of the French Academy

    24. Pierre Oberling, Professor at Hunter College

    25. Dankwart Rostow

    26. Jeremy Salt, Professor of Political Science at Melbourne University

    27. Stanford J. Shaw (RIP), former Professor at UCLA and Bilkent University

    28. Philip H. Stoddard, Ph.D. in Ottoman Military History

    29. Norman Stone, Professor at Bikent University

    30. Dr. Hew Strachan (Ph.D), Chichele Professor of the History of War at Oxford University ( labels the issue “still not clear” )

    31. Gilles Veinstein, Professor at Collège de France

    32. Annette Wieviorka, Researcher at the French National Center for Scientific Research (Centre National de la Recherche Scientifique, Paris)

    33. Dr. Malcolm Yapp Ph.D., Professor Emeritus of The Modern History of Western Asia at the School of Oriental and African Studies (SOAS) at the University of London

    34. Robert F. Zeidner, Ph.D. in Ottoman Military History

    Let’s not forget that Armenians bombed Stanford Shaw’s residence for his views because, of course, freedom of speech, scholarly research and publication is for Armenians only.

    And, if financing or grants from an interested party (i.e., either Turkish or Armenian in origin) disqualifies a historian’s analysis of the situation, you can kiss all the credibility of all the genocide-promoting scholars good-bye.

  12. I do NOT want the US Congres to be the “moral forum” for the world. Rather, I want it to legislate within the limited grant of authority that it was given by the Constitution. In foreign affairs, I want the Senate to use its confirmation and Treaty powers, and the Congress as a whole to reulate international commerce and to steer the country, following the lead of the President, towards a policy of non intervention.

    I do NOT wnat the Congress to play referee or historian over controversies nearly a century old that make no differnence whatsoever to our current foreign relations. The polity that committed the atrocities that allegedly amount to genocide, the Ottoman Empire, no longer even exists. Not only is no living Turk guilty of anything as an individual, even assuming all the allegations are true, but the polity and government of modern Turkey is as well. The issue is anything but ongoing, and the Armenians now have their own State.

    Just as I do not need the US Congress opining on the rightness or wrongness of Roman policy in Gaul, Norht Africa, Judea or Spain, or on the sack of Constantinople by the crusaders, or Frederick the Great’s policies of expansion and militarism, etc,so I do not want it judging the rightness or wrongness, or degree of wrongness, of Ottoman policy nearly a century old.

    As an aside, I think the word “genocide” has now become debased. Basically, anybody who doesn’t like what some regime, past or present, has done, labels it “genocide.” For currrent issues, this is often the predicate to neo con intervention. Milosevich (sp?) was said to be a “genocidalist,” a charge that was almost certainly untrue. So was Saddam. Also untrue. Phony “genocide” charges have led us to the brink of military intervention in the Sudan. And elsewhere.

    “Terrorism” is the new “Communist threat;” it is used by neo cons to jusify war to the Right. “Genocide” is the other side of the same coin. It used by the “huminatarian” neoliberals to justify war to the Left. We need a lot less talk of “genocide,” not more. And we certainly don’t need it interjected into the study of history, especially by the amateurs with axes to grind on Capital Hill.

  13. “If you wanted to be truly federalist in your approach, you would not commemorate the Armenian Genocide but you would also not commemorate the Holocaust or the Ukrainian, Cambodian, Rwandan, Bosnian, and Darfur genocides.”

    Exactly. And, as an aside, out of all those mentioned, I don’t think any of them, outside of the Holocaust and Rwanda, actually amounted to genocide, as the word was first created and as the UN defines it on paper. But that is neither here nor there, let anyone define it as they please. There is no reason for the US Congress to be involved.

    In Turkey, it may well be illegal to mention the Armenian affair. On the other hand, in other countries it may be illegal to “deny” that it was genocide. Who cares? It is not illegal to argue one way or the other in our own country, and that is what should be of paramont concern to us.

  14. oz says:

    This is giant lie folks. But since it’s such a big and emotional lie that it people ask “why would they lie about something like this”? It’s pretty damn simple actually.

    This is not about truth or justice. If it was, then in the 90 years since WW1, Armenians could have taken this to any high court, like the Hague. But they did not. They have so much “evidence” that it would’ve been over in a week! But it turns out the evidence all forgeries, not even a good one.But here’s how it gets to be “fact”.

    They take it to legislatures, where Billy Bob Congressman doesn’t have a clue about the history of this whole thing, nor does he care or have the time to scrutinize all the evidence, and you can you can’t expect him to. Then it gets put into text books, stating only the Armenian side. Then it getsinto other media, and so on, and voila you have urban legend or a myth.

    I won’t get into the details anymore, but it began in 1870s, 40 years before WW1, and it is very well organized, an well connected. Armenians produced the movie “Midnight Express” and even played the “evil Turks” role in it, if you recall. That psycho prison guard that everybody hated in that movie was actually an Armenian, and the writer of the book admitted to fraud. That’s just one example of the media war they have been waging, Wikipedia is another. Once these stories get into the psyche of people, it’s hard to get them out. And this is their method.

    And the whole point of this this scheme is to fool America into forcing Turks into capitulating to a war that Turks have already capitulated to, a war that’s been over for 90 years, a civil war that has nothing to do with America or Christianity, to damn the Turks for eternity as murderers, and in turn gain revenge for their disgruntlement, and of course to gain dominion over all of Turkey. After which comes of course the reparations, the humiliations, the insurance claims, more racist movies and games that turn Turks into caricatures. Bottom line, it’s all about money, just like everything else.

    As far as where the Christians went, where they disappeared to, you might ask that to France, UK, British Petroleum, AMOCO, and America who held the protectorates of those occupied Ottoman lands. These nations turned those lands over to corrupt puppet governments, like King Faisal in Iraq, in order to exploit the natural resources. And the Christians simply ran away so their pissed off neighbors wouldn’t kill them.

    The same thing is happening today as a continuation of WW!, in Iraq and Afghanistan where the leaders are puppets. The small amount of Christians are taking the brunt of the occupation and the exploitation by being ostracized by their neighbors, justified or not.

    Not knowing or caring about these things, and blindly jumping into a fight, as poor GWB did, is not in the interest of America. What happened with Iraq is similar to Armenians complaints where certain Iraqis and Kurds were claiming there were WMDs used against them, there was genocide, and that it would be cakewalk if US helped out.

    We see how that’s working out today. Sorry for the Bloviation.

  15. Well, they did it. The best congress money can buy has voted in committee 23 to 22 in favor of the genocide resolution. Unless it is blocked by adult leadership (if that can be found anywhere in Washington), it will now go to the House for a full vote. Turkey has recalled its ambassador. Contrary to some of the comments made above, the US needs Turkey much more than vice-versa. One might also note that our constitution gives congress no role in foreign policy apart from the ability to deny funding. Can anyone explain just what exactly the American people have gained from this nonsense?

  16. TomB says:

    Phil Giraldi wrote:

    “Can anyone explain just what exactly the American people have gained from this nonsense?”

    Sure: The disdain the rest of the world naturally feels at our moral self-importance, and the disgust it feels for the obvious fact that it wasn’t really even any moral calculation that brought it about at all, (no matter how cheaply made), but instead some mere grubby political one made by Congress.

    (With, it should be said, not a molecule of genuine moral respect being gained for the substance of the pronouncement itself.)

  17. One would think that the Congress would have more pressing matters in these hard economic times.

    Is the taxpayer-funded Armenian Genocide Museum soon to follow?

  18. Wow, some intelligent converstion on a conservative site. Good book by a Turkish scholar (Taner Akcam) called “A shameful act” which is a careful documentation of the orders from government officials including the Young Turks directing the elimination of the Armenian people most of which just wanted to be good Turkish citizens, some of which were seekers of political freedom (do we Americans still support that?). I knew these victims. I know their stories were true. Is the truth important to “conservatives” anymore? It doesn’t seem so from watching “conservatives” in action these days. The truth may set yo free but you can’t see the truth with your head up your @%%. Always seek the truth!

    p.s. You don’t have to like our elected representatives but you should support the process that brought them to Washington. It’s still our choice and that’s what’s important. Don’t stand for lies of convenience for political gain. If you can’t seek the truth about the various genocides (including Native Americans) then why bother considering the truth in our own country’s politics.

    Please join me;
    I fervently pray, God Bless America! God Bless the Freedom of thought! God Bless the freedom to debate honestly! God Bless our democracy! God Bless the light of truth!

    Think about it. Get a backbone and stand up for what’s right (and I mean correct and just).

  19. “I knew these victims. I know their stories were true”

    How can that be? Even if you’re a hundred years old, these events occured when, at the most, you were five years old!

    “Is the truth important to ‘conservatives’ anymore?”

    Given your above claims, “truth” does not appear to be your strong suit. But, anyway, most conservatives (no scare quotes necessary) fear when “truth” becomes “Truth.” Whatever happened in Turkey a century ago happened. Historians can search for the little “t” truth of those affairs. And they can reasonably disagree. We don’t need Congress pronouncing a big “T”, officialy sanctioned, Truth, one way or the other.

    “The truth may set yo free but you can’t see the truth with your head up your @%%. ”

    Arguments from vulgarity are not persuasive.

    “Always seek the truth!”

    Yes, but always be hesitant to pronounce “the Truth.” Fanatics have found the Truth, not conservatives.

    “You don’t have to like our elected representatives but you should support the process that brought them to Washington. It’s still our choice and that’s what’s important.”

    It is simply none of my business, nor of the US Congress, to declare “the Truth” about obscure, historical matters.

    “Don’t stand for lies of convenience for political gain.”

    Yes, in either direction. I would not condemn Turkey for what happened, nor would I deny it. Atrocites were clearly committed. Whether they rose to the level of genocide or not should be of no concern to the US government. Political, or foreign policy, gains can be found on either side of the vote. They are not what concern me. What does is the US Congress overstepping its bounds and the US government posturing and moralizing about affairs that are none of its business.

    “If you can’t seek the truth about the various genocides (including Native Americans) then why bother considering the truth in our own country’s politics.”

    An exploration of the atrocities committed against the Native Americans, including the quesion of whether they rose to the level of genocide (my personal opinion, is that they did–in some instances, but not in most) would be an appropriate topic for an exhibit at the Smithsonian, the Museusm of the American Indian, and the like. I still don’t see what purpose would be served by Congress opining on the issue at this late death. But, such action by Congress would at least pertain to matters within its jurisdiction under the Constitution, and to past actions of the US government.

    So the comparison with Armenia is not on all fours.

    “Please join me; I fervently pray, God Bless America! God Bless the Freedom of thought! God Bless the freedom to debate honestly! God Bless our democracy! God Bless the light of truth!”

    As I said, a little too fervently (“light of truth” indeed!). As for freedom of thought and freedom of debate and democracy, I don’t see how a “yes” vote in this case does anything good for any one of them. Democracy has nothing to do with it, and historical questions, like logical ones, can’t be decided by popular vote. Freedom of debate and freedom of thought, it seems to me, are better served by allowing historians, partisans, and folks of all descriptions argue this issue to their hearts’ content, without any stultifying, official, purporting to resolve the debate, pronunciamundo coming from Congress!

  20. Theo says:

    Interesting times. AIPAC, dispensationalism, and the State if Israel work against recording history accurately. Like Hitler famously said, when planning the genocides against Jews, Roma and other “undesirables” (in reaction to a question regarding the opinion of the rest of the world when such a massive atrocity would be uncovered) “Who remembers the Armenians?”. Fact is Turkey is fast becoming geopolitically irrelevant. It should be divided up between Greece, Armenia, Kurdistan and Syria. The US and UK dont know what to do with their orphan ally anymore!

  21. “…recording history accurately”

    Not the responsiblity of Congress. Also, “history” is a little more complex than somethng merely to be recorded.”

    “Who remembers the Armenians?”.

    I’m not sure what was the case when Hitler said it, but it seems obvious that lots of people remember them now. Even without an official stamp of approval from the US Congress.

    “Fact is Turkey is fast becoming geopolitically irrelevant. It should be divided up between Greece, Armenia, Kurdistan and Syria. The US and UK dont know what to do with their orphan ally anymore!”

    Now we see the real agenda! How did that “lets carve up Turkey” thing work out for the Western allies and Greece after WWI, Theo? You, for whatever reason, hate Turkey. Good for you (I guess). But why should the US Congress, the US government, and the American people be a party to your lurid dreams of divide and conquer? And what does this precious “recognition” of a century old alleged genocide committed by a predecesor government have to do with it?

  22. oz says:

    “Fact is Turkey is fast becoming geopolitically irrelevant. It should be divided up between Greece, Armenia, Kurdistan and Syria.”

    On the contrary, Turkey is becoming even more important, e.g. gas pipelines, oil pipelines, Iraq war, a nuclear Iran, the Straits, failing Greece, the Euphrates & Tigris, EU buffer, etc.

    There is no land mass more important then Turkey today, inch for inch.

    And it is true that Greece, Armenia, Kurdistan and Syria would love to carve Turkey, and in fact are working together to do so. But if that happened, any of these nations would open the Straits to the Russian fleet in an instant, which I think is a huge failure on Obama’s part – the failure to understand the implications of seemingly minute foreign policy decisions.

    Russians are the main reasons why the Allies in WW1 didn’t completely destroy Turkey. Somebody had to watch the gates, but the Allies couldn’t share, and Turks fought back, and rest is unsettled history.

    The Armenian lobby that got this passed is funded by Russia, surprise! If the ultimate outcome is that Armenia gets the port Ceyhan, which is what they are asking for, who do you think will have largest Navy yard in the Mediterranean?

    The balance of power of in the Middle East is very fragile, and when it breaks it spills on to our shores, if case you didn’t know. The U.S. should consider every outcome when dealing with anything that pertains to the Middle East, becomes it is never as it seems, or stay out of it…if it can.

  23. Hey Rudy, I wasn’t being vulgar but apparently you took this personally.

    I did know these people. I knew the Armenian refugees who came to this country not only to escape the slaughter but for political freedom. They fought in our wars to defend this great country. They lost everything in Turkey because a government that most of them supported turned against them and systematically eliminated them man, woman and child. As an American once said “Nits make lice” as the same kind of justification for murdering Native Americans.

    I grew up in an America that believed in finding the truth and doing the just and moral thing or at least trying to do so. “Love thy neighbor”, now that’s the truth we all need to believe in. Having a government that seeks these the truth is a blessing. I’m afraid that the current radical right that calls itself “conservative” would rather invent their own “truth”. (The radical left too for that matter.) One of our strengths in America has been our ability to look at something in this world even if its something that we’ve done and say that its wrong and try to correct it. Genocides, slavery, taxation without representation and so many other sins that one people inflict on another. For those of us who are Christians we’ve been given instructions in these matters and its important that our government be instructed by us to do the same.

    If we don’t learn from these mistakes we will repeat them and probably right here in our country. Turks think they are being shamed by this but they should embrace their own history to try to improve like we’ve tried to do. This task is never done.

    Enough said.

  24. “Hey Rudy, I wasn’t being vulgar but apparently you took this personally.”

    You were vulgar (“head up —“) and I didn’t take it personally.

    “I did know these people. I knew the Armenian refugees who came to this country not only to escape the slaughter but for political freedom. They fought in our wars to defend this great country. ….”

    Before you said you “knew the victims” of the alleged genocide and that you “knew” their “stories were true” Now, I take it, you are admitting that you know no such things. What you really “know” is that you have met some alleged refugees, not the actual “genocide victims,” and that these refugees claim x, y and z. But you yourself have no personal knowledge of genocide or not. And you have no personal knowledge of whether x, y and z are true, either. You/ve heard stories from expatriates. Big deal. And whether these “refugees” fought in later US wars or not has nothng to do with it.

    “As an American once said ‘Nits make lice’ as the same kind of justification for murdering Native Americans.”

    The genocide,or not, of Native Americans, has nothing to do with it.

    “I grew up in an America that believed in finding the truth and blah, blah, blah….”

    I doubt it. I think you actually “grew up in an America” that did not take it upon itself to determine the “truth” of the endless squabbling that characterizes the study of history in much of the world. That was the America I grew up in, anyway. It is only recently that America has decided, or, rather, the Congress has decided to play “judge and jury” of each and every controversy everywhere in the world. But, even at that, the Congress has more or less confined itself to current events, not set up itself up as some sort of “Court of history.”

    It simply is not the job of the US Congress to determine whether the atrocities in 1915 Armenia amount to genocide or not. That is a matter for historians to debate, not for Congress to decide, as it would how much money to spend on interstate highways!

    “If we don’t learn from these mistakes we will repeat them and probably right here in our country.. . ”

    Please. Do you really believe in this sanctimonious and self righteous drivel? Unless the US “acknowledges” the Armenian “genocide,” it will perpetrate it’s own genocide? Is that how it works?

    “Enough said.”

    Too much said.

  25. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I’m a third generation Armenian American (along with a few other strains), and I’m not sure of the value of congressional recognition of the genocide, though denial of truth is generally damaging.

    The thing I’ve always found difficult in this debate is raised by the claim that the genocide is irrelevant to the present Turkish government because it wasn’t the one that did whatever it was that was done. If that is the accepted truth, why cannot the present Turkish government decry the misdeeds of the government it replaced as the present German government decries the deeds of the Nazi regime?

  26. Here is the real truth of the “Genocide Peddling Movement”: 1) Greece, Armenia and the Kurds want to wipe Turkey off the map. 2) The Armenian lobby, which is trying to make the USA a vassal state of Armenia (already Armenian lobbies in Europe, Australia, and some parts of the Middle East have succeeded at doing this. 3) Armenians. as well as Greeks, are plotting to vilify everything Turkish (even more then how Hitler vilified the Jews). 4) Armenians, as well as Greeks, are trying to portray everyone who is Turkish as bloodthristy, barbaric, evil and cancerous. (Fact is, most of the Turkish community in the USA provided many doctors, engineers, small business owners, academics and many other professional backgrounds. There is no Turkish/American youth gangs at all and Turkish/American youth end up going to the top universities in the USA, as well as International Turkish students (who you will mainly see studying at top-tier universities all over the USA). (The portrayal schemes is reminiscent to what Hitler and the Neo Nazis did towards the Jews). 5) Armenians, as well as Greeks, are supressing freedom of speech about the 1915-1923 issues, because they don’t want the have the fact exposed that there was EQUAL TURKISH SIDES OF SUFFERING (Fact about 1915: 50% Turkish/Muslim suffering and 50% Christian suffering) (Greeks and Armenians want to paint it as this: 100% Christian suffering, we didn’t touch a single Muslim, the Barbaric Turks were cutting the ears of children and women, and stabbing pregant women, blah blah blah, all Turks are demons, blah blah blah). 6) Armenians, as well as Greeks want to compare the Anatolian issue to the Shoah (While Armenian extremeists play the “Shoah” card, at the same time, Armenians on Stormfront boast about how they love Hitler and how they create a ridiculous conspiracy theory claiming secret Jews were behind the Turkish Independence War, and how Jews killed Armenians and blame the Jews for the “so-called” Genocide just because Israel doesn’t care about their crybaby behavior. 7) Armenians think the protocols are insulting (how is it insulting, you either sign the protocols and normalize relations, if you ask for land and money, that means you are plotting to divide Turkey, pure and simple). 8) Armenians want Turkish people to acknowledge what happened ot their dead (YES, I recognize their dead, but it was NOT a genocide, but civil war), but Turkish people are asking Armenians: recognize our dead (but they refuse to). 9) Why are you guys fear the historical commision (don’t play the Shoah card), because you fear your schemes are going to be exposed. 10) Armenian “Genocide Peddlers” want to paint Leftist Turkish Academics as progressive, but Taner Akcam has Marxist/Leninist links. Face it, Islamists represent only less than 10 percent of Turkey. Turkey has provided USA with 5 decades of friendship, saving USA troops in the Korean War and protecting 1/2 of Korea from being overtaken by Commies, provided troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, stopped Russia from spreading Communism to the Mid East, while Armenia sold arms to Iran, which gave arms to Shia Militants in Iraq to kill US soldiers and is hosting Russian bases in Armenia. Also there was an Armenian Terrorist named Vladimir Arutunyan who plotted to assasinate George Bush a few years back. Also, an Armenian university gave Ahmadinejad an Honorary Doctorate. Armenians cannot supress free speech on the 1915-1923 issue, Armenian/American political officials cannot threaten to impeach officials for disagreeing with one sided allegations and Armenians have no right to use faschist lobbies to control other countries to use them in their plots to destroy Turkey off the map. Same with Greek lobbies too. They want to silence freedom of speech, attack everything Turkish and vilify people who want to speak with more balanced views. The Turkish people and others have a right to execrise their human and civil rights against racist, hateful Armenian lobbyists.

  27. Also, Armenia has given guns to Shiite Militants to kill US Troops in Iraq and Armenian mobsters were guilty of stealing 150 million dollars in Medicare Fraud money.

Current Commenter
says:

Leave a Reply - Comments on articles more than two weeks old will be judged much more strictly on quality and tone


 Remember My InformationWhy?
 Email Replies to my Comment
Submitted comments have been licensed to The Unz Review and may be republished elsewhere at the sole discretion of the latter
Subscribe to This Comment Thread via RSS Subscribe to All Philip Giraldi Comments via RSS
Personal Classics
Shouldn't they recuse themselves when dealing with the Middle East?
A Modern Guernica Enabled by Washington
Pressuring Candidates Even Before They Are Nominated
But is it even a friend?
The gagged whistleblower goes on the record.
Today’s CIA serves contractors and bureaucrats—not the nation.