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Shurat HaDin, the Israeli government funded Lawfare center, has been busy filing lawsuits to take away the assets from groups, individuals and even governments that it considers to be “terrorist” connected. That includes anyone opposed to Israel’s existence but it also extends to groups that are critical of Israel for some of its actions as an occupying power as well as for its reported war crimes in dealing with its neighbors. Shurat HaDin has also been using similar tactics to attack supporters of peaceful protest, to include the Boycott, Divest and Sanctions (BDS) movement, which has been seeking to put economic pressure on Israel to comply with United Nations resolutions relating to Palestine, as well as against groups on campus seeking to criticize Israel and its policies, claiming that such activity creates a threatening environment for Jewish students.

Sometimes the lawsuits are frivolous. In the past year Shurat HaDin has, for example, “challenged the tax exempt status of the Presbyterian Church that declared its intent to divest from the Jewish State.” But sometimes they are more serious. On May 15, 2012 a Washington D.C. court awarded $332 million in damages to an American family whose sixteen year-old son had been killed in a 2006 suicide bombing in Israel.

The court determined that Syria was guilty even though it had directed no terrorist activity and would have to pay the judgment due to its allowing various Palestinian resistance groups to have offices in Damascus. The point of law involved, that supporters of militant groups, no matter how far removed, can be held legally responsible for the consequences of that support is a fundamental principle exploited by Lawfare.

On its website Shurat HaDin boasts of other more recent courtroom victories and the large payoffs that it has been responsible for, including “a historic $655 million judgment in federal court in New York this past February in the case of Sokolow v. Palestine Liberation Organization, holding the PLO and the Palestinian Authority liable for a number of suicide bombings perpetrated during the Second Intifada. We are currently pursuing Palestinian assets to execute on the judgment.” It was, in fact, a “victory” that was not welcomed by the Israeli government. The full judgment would bankrupt the Palestinian Authority, requiring Israel to take full administrative responsibility for the areas currently run by the PLO.

Shurat HaDin was in the forefront of opposition to the Gaza aid flotilla of 2011. It successfully pressured the Greek government and international insurers to physically stop the sailing and deny insurance for the vessels involved. It sent warning letters to the UK and US based global satellite company INMARSAT, stating that it might be liable for massive damages and criminal prosecution if it provided communication services. The legal warning asserted that under US law, INMARSAT and its officers “will be open to charges of aiding and abetting terrorism if it provides satellite services to the Gaza-bound ships.” It should be noted that the ships were completely and scrupulously legal, were breaking no laws and were carrying humanitarian supplies that had been inspected. All passengers and crews had signed pledges of non-violence.

Shurat HaDin is no friend of free speech. Its threats of litigation on American university campuses is described on the website as: “Monitoring the rampant anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism in academic institutions by informing the school of its potential civil and criminal liability for tolerating an environment of intimidation and hostility that fails to protect Jewish and Israeli students from anti-Semitic harassment.”

Shurat HaDin, though ostensibly and Israeli non-government organization, is particularly active in the United States, exploiting the fact that American courts have proven willing to hear lawsuits directed against any terrorist group anywhere in the world even if no U.S. citizens are involved based on the principle that terror is an international crime. Existing terrorism legislation in the U.S. making it illegal to provide “material support” to any group designated as terrorist is itself Lawfare, using deliberately vague language to justify nearly anything if a terrorist group is in any way involved or can plausibly be implicated. The law itself provides an elastic framework for litigation. Shurat HaDin’s intention is to silence any and all criticism of Israel, and, to do so, it works assiduously to connect governments and organizations to proscribed terrorist entities so they can be sued for damages. The intention is to use the legal weapon to tie up opponents, wasting time and resources defending themselves, which is precisely what is intended.

The essential hypocrisy of the Lawfare remedy has been noted. Hosting an office of an organization labeled terrorist by the U.S. government or Israel hardly equates to Israel’s actual assassination of Iranian scientists or its recruitment of Jundullah or Kurdish terrorists to carry out attacks inside Iran, not to mention the terror attacks by heavily armed West Bank settlers on unarmed Palestinian civilians. One sometimes wonders what would happen if the family of a slain Iranian scientist were to sue the Israeli government for multi-million dollar damages in a New York City or Washington D.C. federal court. The scrambling by the Justice Department to avoid any involvement in such an action and make it go away would be quite entertaining to watch and one can be sure that the case would be expeditiously dismissed by the presiding judge as “frivolous” or “without merit” or “lacking jurisdiction.” Even though the Israeli actions constitute actual terrorist attacks that kill people, as Israel is not on Washington’s state sponsor of terror list it has up until now avoided becoming the target for litigation.

But now, it seems, the double standard regarding supporting terrorism might just be changing at least as related to some recent outrages committed by armed settlers, to include the burning to death of a Palestinian toddler as well as his mother and father. Armed harassment of Palestinians and destruction of their livelihoods by settlers has become more frequent, particularly as the Israeli authorities hardly ever punish the perpetrators. So-called “price tag” attacks intended to cause fear, sometimes directed against identifiable Christian and Muslim religious targets, have also been increasing.

A lawsuit filed in Washington last month claims that a number of I.R.S. tax exempt 501(c)3 “charitable” entities have been funding both the settlers and their violence, in violation of both U.S. and international law. The suit, filed by the firm of Martin McMahon and Associates, is on behalf of a number of Palestinian plaintiffs who claim to have suffered materially from the activities of the settlers aided and abetted by the Israeli government. More than 100 organizations are cited as part of the illegal activity, which includes financing terrorism, support for war crimes, mail fraud and money laundering in aid of illegal activity. The suit claims that “The entities have engaged in (a) promoting religiously- and racially- discriminatory practices, i.e. funding ‘Jewish only’ settlements; (b) violated numerous other 501(c)3 regulations; (c) funded the violent expulsion of non-Jews living near the settlements, i.e. classic ‘ethnic cleansing’; and (d) violated at least eight federal criminal statutes, including conspiring to commit income tax fraud and the federal perjury statute.”

Previous suits directed against pro-Israel organizations in the U.S. have generally been dismissed by unsympathetic judges or brushed off by the I.R.S. but this suit is different in that it asks instead for a Treasury Department review of the procedures involved relating to funding that winds up illegally in the settlements. The suit alleges, perhaps hyperbolically, that as much as $1 trillion dollars might be recouped by the Treasury from money that was illegally exempted from American taxation through false claims of charitable activity over the course of forty-eight years, which provides some suggestion of the scale of the activity. By one conservative estimate hundreds of millions of dollars from U.S. sources have been illegally funding the settlements in recent years.

There is considerable evidence that U.S. dollars fund the settlers, so much so that even the mainstream media has begun to report on the phenomenon. Some of the money is earmarked for “security” which translates into weapons and other infrastructure while other funding goes to support the mechanisms used to evict Palestinians and illegally appropriate their land. When an Israeli settler kills a Palestinian he rarely is charged, but if he is there are American funded groups that will pay for his lawyers. One group cited, the Friends of the Israeli Defense Forces, allegedly engages in war crimes to protect and support the settlers in their aggression against the Palestinians.

The Treasury Department has sixty days to respond to the Palestinian suit. It is likely that it will ask that the claim be rejected for some nonsensical reason but then it will be up to the presiding judge to determine if the case should go forward. On its merits, it would seem that the case against American funders of illegal settlers and settlement should be allowed to proceed but the U.S. criminal justice system has certainly produced any number of unpleasant surprises over the past fifteen years.

Ultimately it will be up to the White House and the attorney general to decide if a potentially embarrassing case should be squashed and there are plenty of tools lying around to do just that, to include invocation of the State Secrets Privilege, which the Obamas have used more than all preceding administrations combined. Nevertheless, it is important for those of us seeking a U.S. foreign policy that is not morally and practically repugnant as well as those desiring a modicum of justice for the Palestinians to follow this case closely as it unfolds and to make their opinions known both in the media and to potentially sympathetic congressmen. Allowing the Palestinians to plead their case in a U.S. court as the Israelis have been doing unhindered for years would be a major breakthrough and should be welcomed by everyone who believes that law is, or at least should be, blind and that justice will eventually prevail.

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  1. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    The lawsuit filed in Washington last month is an encouraging step in making the routine injustice done to the Palestinians more visible to the American public.

  2. alexander says:

    Dear Mr Giraldi,

    What will happen to” the world”, (not just Israel/Palestine), if the “keystone” of all international law, as set down in the Nuremberg trials , the UN charter, and ratified, unanimously by the UN Security Council…. that the criminality of the acquisition of territory through force…is removed ?.

    What happens to the world, Mr Giraldi, if it is no longer considered a crime against humanity to acquire territory through war and conquest ?

    Will Switzerland invade Northern Italy ?

    Will France invade Switzerland ?

    Will Germany invade Spain ?

    Will Britain invade Finland ?

    Will Turkey invade Greece ?

    Will Austria invade Poland ?

    Will Serbia invade Montenegro ?

    Will Albania invade Macedonia?

    Will Canada invade Alaska?

    Will Russia invade Canada?

    Will the United States invade Mexico?

    Will Brazil invade Argentina?

    Will Uruguay invade Ecuador ?

    Will Egypt invade Libya ?

    Will Spain invade Morocco?

    Will Italy invade Monaco?

    Will China invade Japan?

    Will Russia invade China?

    Will japan invade Thailand ?

    Will Pakistan invade India ?

    Will it all happen at once ?….Once its “okay” ?

    What will happen to the world, Mr Giraldi, once the acquisition of territory through force….through war… no longer a “crime” ?

    Isn’t that the real question you are asking us.?…Isn’t that the” real “question the plaintiff’s in this case are making to the Department of the Treasury, the Justice Department and the US Government…..Isn’t that the “real “question being posed to the judge presiding over this case ?

    I wonder what the judges verdict will be…….don’t you?

    • Replies: @Rehmat
    , @SolontoCroesus
  3. My guess is, the suit must ultimately fail. The USA government apparatus is so completely infected with religious right (Doug Coe cult aligned) “Family” and like ilk at so many levels, we have little more than circumstance of Christian Zionists keeping the door firmly wedged open for the Israeli Zionists’ ‘Greater Israel’ at every level, right up to SCOTUS. Meanwhile here’s bit of what the Christian Zionist rank & file have been busying themselves with:

    Kim Troup, the director of CFOIC’s U.S. Office and an avowed Christian, told ThinkProgress that her group, which was found in 1995, rejects the international consensus that the West Bank is an occupied territory.

    “[The West Bank] was occupied by Jordan from 1949 to 1967, when Israel was attacked by the Jordanians,” she said, referring to the Six Day War. “So God performed a miracle in 6 days and the land became the Jews’.”

    Still, she noted their support primarily comes from a literal interpretation of what they say is God’s law, not humanity’s.

    “Genesis 12:3 — God promised to bless those who bless Abraham and his descendants,” she said. “So number one, we’re gonna bless. Number two, God said the land would always belong to the Jews, that it’s a Jewish homeland forever. We can get on board with that because we believe that the Bible is true. So seeing Jews come home to that land, seeing them turning the desert and making it blossom…it’s the fulfillment of prophecy.”

    “Our support, our friendship is offered unconditionally based on those two things,” she added.

    Troup and the CFOIC work to provide financial aid to settlements as often as possible, reportedly spending nearly $600,000 on West Bank settlements and outposts in 2014 alone, according to Al Jazeera. These projects are typically intended to be magnanimous, with staffers raising money for small community projects such as libraries, day care centers, and hot meal programs. But the group also accrues funds for “emergency and security” programs, including surveillance equipment to ward off “terrorist attacks and hostile infiltration.”

  4. Sounds like Shurat HaDin got their playbook from the Southern Poverty Law Center. I wonder if these 2 groups have a nice Hanukkah party every year where they swap inspiring stories of their efforts to crush free speech.

  5. Sam Shama says:

    Who funds Shurat Ha Din?

    I would speculate without evidence that they are the same elements who would manipulate our own political classes. Although not known with any certainty at this point, the Israeli Supreme Court is considering a ruling that nullifies the jurisdiction of foreign courts, as they apply to cases brought forth on Israeli matters by organisations such as Shurat Ha Din.

    Shurat Ha Din represents a rather undisguised, shameless and ultimately insidious scheme to suppress free speech. One wishes them all the misfortune that one can muster.

    This organisation is not a favourite of the Israeli judiciary nor its public prosecutor. Shurat Ha Din had apparently attempted to protect the killers of the Dawabsha family in the WB, but were foiled.

  6. @Ronald Thomas West

    If the territory was acquired by aggressive war you have a case. If the territory was acquired in defensive war, then you lost your land. Ask Bolivia what happens when you lose land to a country you attack. Bolivia lost its outlet to the Pacific and they occasionally ask Chile for the land back. Chile just laughs at them.

    Israel has every right to laugh in this case as well.

  7. Personally I am tired of the worlds injustices that always result in American intervention and picking sides when there is no side to pick. I’m tired of being asked to choose between the lesser of two evils. Doesn’t anyone get tired of “America being involved” somewhere in the world?
    What do you want an Exceptional America? Don’t we steal everyone’s oil and kill all their brown people? What happened to the evil white Christians destroying the brown people over there? What about the fact that both the Jews and the Sunni Muslims have the same enemies, Christians and Shia (And no those Muslims don’t like Christians either)? Why doesn’t Saudi Arabia do something about the Palestinians with their brothers in Israel?
    Stop trying to suck us in to their problems. It always costs us lives and jobs, neither of which can white people in America afford to lose. I’m sure the Palestinians already have the support of the American Democrat party, let the party of color go fight for them with their own money and lives.
    Why doesn’t Mr. Giraldi, know better? I thought no one ever retired from the CIA 🙂

    • Replies: @Ken Hoop
  8. Rehmat says:

    You missed few spots dear ……

    1. Would Arabs re-invade Spain or Sicily, or Malta?

    2. Don’t worry about the US Supreme Court. Three of its nine judges are Zionist Jews, and the rest of them are Zionist Christians.

    Spanish Muslims ruled the Mediterranean Christian island of Malta from 870 to 1091 CE. The Normans took the island from Muslims but allowed them to remain subjects of the new rulers, and Arabic became their common language. In 1224 Frederick II, responding to religious uprisings in Sicily, expelled all Muslims from the island. During the reign of Charles II of Naples (1254-1309) the Muslim inhabitants were exiled or sold into slavery, with many finding asylum in Albania. All mosques were destroyed or converted to churches…..

    • Replies: @MikeP
    , @Orville H. Larson
  9. If I were king Solomon I would not give that piece of land either to Jews or the Palestinians because they want to split it in two pieces.

    • Replies: @Rehmat
  10. @Quartermaster

    I think you missed (flunked history, actually) the ‘pre-emptive’ nature of the Six Days War.

    By the same logic I suppose you’d find a rationale for the related USS Liberty attack as just… if only because morons abound –

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
  11. SPMoore8 says:

    Bolivia lost its outlet to the Pacific in 1904. That was several decades before 4th Geneva.

    I would be interested to know if the Bolivians who live in the territory acquired by Chile continue to be stateless, as is the case with millions of Palestinians in the Occupied Territories.

    Israel wants the land, but not the people on it. One can say that most Palestinians don’t want to be Israelis. But that doesn’t justify the Israelis treating one class of persons in the West Bank preferentially over another class of persons. Anyone can see that.

  12. LarryS says:

    Should there be a one-state or two-state solution to the conflict? How about a no-state solution? The land could be named The Holy Land and anybody would be allowed to live there as long as they respected everyone else living there. Perhaps it could be governed by an international organization to protect the civil rights of everyone.

  13. U. Ranus says:

    I really love that picture, although it makes me sad.

    I think it is the stark contrast between this cute boy in a sane country getting a sane education and events in Europe (such as New Year’s Eve in Cologne, Germany) that really drives home how utterly hopeless the European situation has become.

    Why must we settle for insanity when a working model of sanity is so readily available?

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    , @annamaria
  14. @LarryS

    Actually something close to that idea was proposed for Jerusalem at the UN at the inception of Israel as a state:

    It didn’t work out that way and likely won’t. Nevertheless it was and is probably the best solution. Israel’s capital should be Tel Aviv and the State of Palestine’s capital Ramallah with Jerusalem more or less an independent city-state. It would (or should) take away a lot of the tensions.

    Perpetually in the way of intelligent solutions is radicalized nationalism, Zionism (Christian & Jewish) and leadership with geopolitical agenda (western and middle east) placing narcissistic strategic interests ahead of common sense & sanity –

    • Replies: @alexander
  15. Amazing how the whole world is now subject to extraterritorial U.S. law. I can’t help but find lawfare repugnant no matter whose ox is being gored. It’s a bit like SJW Black Lives Matter activists calling for the the unjust police killing of white ranchers, under the theory that applying injustice equally is a remedy for out of control governmental authority.

  16. @Ronald Thomas West

    If you think that the Obama administration, the U.S. Justice Department, or the federal judiciary is controlled or even substantially influenced by “the religious right”, you live on another planet.

    The federal judiciary in particular is increasingly hostile to traditional Christians and their liberties and beliefs.

    At least one federal court in California (the U.S. District Court for the Central District of California) holds homosexual propaganda events on court property, during work hours, with speeches by homosexual federal judges and staff, attended by federal court employees who should be working for the taxpayers. Any such comparable event on the other side of the issue would be declared bigotry and disallowed, and any judges or staff who expressed opposition to homosexual marriage or homosexual adoption of children (!) would be shamed, probably disciplined, and possibly put on a path to termination.

    • Replies: @Ronald Thomas West
  17. @LarryS

    The safest and most realistic solution would seem to be a state for Muslims and a state for Jews. Split Jerusalem if necessary to secure agreement.

    Too many on each side have shown their strong unwillingness to tolerate each other and live in relative harmony. Let’s stop trying to force them to live together.

    • Replies: @Karl
  18. @U. Ranus

    I guess taste is subjective. I don’t see a “cute boy” and don’t know what “sane country” that would be.

    Jewish Israelis have a riot to defend themselves, and there is nothing wrong with them insisting on a homeland where they are not forced to accept Muslims, too many of whom are sworn to their destruction or subjugation. But Jewish Israelis are also some of the most racial supremacist, vicious, intolerant, unfair people in the world, and that’s saying a lot.

    Yes, i have known plenty of Israelis, some still only Israeli citizens with prem residency in USA and some dual citizens of USA and Israel (which should not be allowed by the USA, but that’s another story). Growing up near New York City, there were, shall we saw, a couple of ’em around my neighborhood, my school and academic clubs, my sports teams, my town’s businesses and associations, my everything.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  19. @RadicalCenter

    That would be “right” to defend themselves, not riot. Or was that a Freudian slip? 😉

  20. Rehmat says:

    Sadly, like “the Bible’s G-d promised Palestine to Khazarian Jew”, many people have been fooled by the so-called BDS, which in fact legitimizes 78% of historic Palestine by the Zionist Jews.

    On June 30, 2015, Barack Obama signed the so-called ‘Anti-BDS’ Bill which says that as long as the BDS movement targets only the illegal Jewish settlements in the West Bank and not the Zionist entity – the US State Department will not classify it “Terrorist Organization” like Hamas or Hizbullah.

    If you study the BDS Declaration, it uses the word “occupation” for the West Bank and Gaza Strip but not even for East Jerusalem which all were occupied by Israel as result of its 1967 War of Aggression. The BDS demands from Israel; 1) Ending its occupation and colonization of all Arab lands occupied in June 1967 and dismantling the wall, 2) Recognizing the fundamental rights of the Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel to full equality (meaning Israel has the right to exist within pre-1967 borders); and 3) Respecting, protecting and promoting the rights of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and properties as stipulated in UN Resolution 194.

    Zionist Jew writer David Cohen boasted at Jewish site algemeiner on December 23, 2013 that BDS is not anti-Israel but against world Jewish power.

    On February 18, 2014, Emily L. Hauser claimed at the Jewish Daily Forward that BDS is not antisemitism. “Though I boycott the settlements, I don’t personally support BDS, and I do not doubt that some members of that movement are unrepentant antisemites – just a some member of the Greater Israel movement are unrepentant racist and Islamophobe,” she wrote.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
  21. RobinG says:

    What is going on at Unz Review? The comments seem to be blocked.

    • Replies: @alexander
  22. alexander says:
    @Ronald Thomas West

    I agree with both you and LarryS.

    The idea of Jerusalem having its” own” territorial boundaries….and belonging to everyone and no one…is the most wise and just solution to that issue…I imagine it would function a lot like the Vatican, without adhering to any specific world religion….but paying equal homage to all three.

    My understanding is that the mandated solution from the world body is dividing Jerusalem according to ethnic majorities and ethnic enclaves…..much of the old city…which is predominantly Palestinian would go to Palestine…and the balance to Israel.

    Is that correct ?

    I wonder how much of this impasse is based on financial considerations?

    how many Muslims, Christians, Jews and whomever else would make their visit to Jerusalem, every year…to visit the epicenter of the three great world religions….and how much income could a state generate from that level of tourism…were there to be peace ?….

    .I can only hazard a guess….but I am sure it is a substantial amount of revenue.

    Quite substantial.

    I imagine, too,that were Jerusalem to become wholly part of Israel…and not Palestine…there are perhaps a billion Muslims who would balk at the humiliation of having to pay a” toll” to Israel, every year, to visit one of their holiest sites.

    What a sticky wicket.

    • Replies: @Avery
  23. @RadicalCenter

    Sounds like you need some lessons in the western culture’s homosexuality…

    …this one (above link) was written just for you (people who’re obsessed) 😀

  24. Ken Hoop says:
    @Jane Claire

    Anyone who assumes the Palestinians have the support of the Democratic Party has no business counseling others on political strategy.

  25. alexander says:

    Hi RobinG,

    Are you saying that comments coming into Unz are being” censored” once they get here.?…or that they are being blocked” before” they get here , at all ?

    • Replies: @RobinG
  26. Avery says:

    {….the epicenter of the three great world religions…..}

    What a joke: the epicenter of the three – three ? – great world religions ?
    Muslims invaded Jerusalem from Mecca: they have no historic claim to Christian lands or Christian cities. If Muslims can claim any ownership to Jerusalem, then Jews/Israelis can also claim ownership – by conquest. What is the difference ?

    Epicenter of Islam is Mecca, Saudi Arabia.

    If you want to make Jerusalem the epicenter of the three great religions, then Mecca must also be forced to house Christian and Jewish houses of worship.
    It is fair, is it not ?

    • Replies: @alexander
    , @Robzview
  27. RobinG says:

    I mean that I’ve been trying to post a reply on another thread. When I click ‘publish’ it just disappears.

    Look at all the articles – almost no comments have been posted for the past day or so, except on a couple articles. At first I thought it was me, but I think something’s going on with the system.

    Thanks for asking.

  28. @alexander

    Interesting concept, Alexander, but I suspect the tactic Phil is pointing to is more like the Eliot Ness case that brought down the Al Capone crime family by using tax regulations.

    A legal argument involving financial matters and their violations of US law is also more likely to succeed than an attempt to do something like challenge Israel on Nuremberg principles –to the extent Nuremberg was an exercise in principled law-making, a can of worms most of the west is not likely to wish to open.

    The implications of a court finding that tax-exempt donations to Israeli settlements are in violation of US statutes and subject to recapture, restitution, fines, etc. are potentially huge. Think of all the corporations and institutions that could be held liable, from your local grocery-store chain whose owners use their profits to support and contribute to Israeli settlements, to the software developer who donates to IDF, to numerous hedge fund managers, etc.

    Taking the case to US Dept of Treasury is a stroke of genius. Treasury has been terrorizing international banks and corporations for years, imposing massive fines on several very large banks for violating US perquisites — sanctions on Iran. Several EU court cases have ruled that those actions violated international laws.
    Some of those institutions just might see an opportunity for payback; they might be more than willing to cooperate. Karma’s a b*@ch.

    If the legal community finds one small chink in the armor, it can be expanded to call the whole enterprise to account.
    The demise of zionist oppression of Palestinians — and the removal of the zionist extortion racket from the wallets of American taxpayers — with a whimper not a bang is eminently to be desired.

  29. Svigor says:

    My guess is, the suit must ultimately fail. The USA government apparatus is so completely infected with religious right (Doug Coe cult aligned) “Family” and like ilk at so many levels, we have little more than circumstance of Christian Zionists keeping the door firmly wedged open for the Israeli Zionists’ ‘Greater Israel’ at every level, right up to SCOTUS. Meanwhile here’s bit of what the Christian Zionist rank & file have been busying themselves with:

    Yes, it’s the Christians who are doing all the Zionist dirt! After all, Israel is a Christian Supremacist Apartheid state.

    It’s definitely not the Jews who are doing the vast majority of the Zionist dirt (including suborning what Christian Zionism there is), no sir. That would make no sense – it’s not like Israel is a Jewish Supremacist Apartheid state.

    What’s in it for Zionist Christians? Oh, right – scraps from the Zionist Jews’ table.

    I guess taste is subjective. I don’t see a “cute boy” and don’t know what “sane country” that would be.

    Jewish Israelis have a right to defend themselves, and there is nothing wrong with them insisting on a homeland where they are not forced to accept Muslims, too many of whom are sworn to their destruction or subjugation. But Jewish Israelis are also some of the most racial supremacist, vicious, intolerant, unfair people in the world, and that’s saying a lot.

    Security is Israel’s great fig leaf. Non-Jewish, non-Muslim Latinos, Europeans, sub-Saharan Africans, east Asians…none of these people are the slightest security threat to Israel, yet Israel denies them immigration and citizenship. And Israel isn’t full up, just ask Israelis, who have the highest birth rate in the developed world.

    • Replies: @Ronald Thomas West
    , @Rurik
  30. MikeP says:

    So clearly once land is taken by Muslims it must remain Muslim. I say let’s reverse that thinking and get Constantinople and all of Anotolia back in Christian hands.

    • Replies: @Rehmat
  31. @Svigor

    “After all, Israel is a Christian Supremacist Apartheid state”

    Dumb f**k, in the sense of who empowers the Israelis, that is exactly correct.

  32. Why can’t I vote….it’s Apartheid! Give me your country, I am a waiter! It’s Apartheid! You built it but hired me as a waiter. Give me Give Me Educate Meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee It’s Apartheid and you owe me give me give me give me a vote so that I may vote myself prosperity.

  33. Here is a fun stat about our legal system, in which the Supreme Court has the final say. There are more Muslims in the USA than Jews, yet there are three Jewish justices and zero Muslim. Moreover, there is not a single Protestant, who make up 51% of our population. This is never in our “news” yet one might think Obama would have considered that oddity during his most recent nominations. Even our hard core Protestant Congressmen utter no protest or comment. Why?

    • Replies: @Rurik
  34. Mark Green says: • Website

    Unfortunately, the Treasury Dept is infested with Zionists. These operatives will do everything possible to exempt Israel from existing statutes and international laws.

    • Replies: @Orville H. Larson
  35. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Ronald Thomas West

    Pot calling the kettle black there, RTW.

    First, blockading the Gulf of Aqaba was an act of war. Egypt did that in the run-up to the Six Day War. They also demanded the removal of the UN Peacekeeping force separating them from Israel, mobilized their armed forces, and announced they would drive Israel into the sea.

    Second, although Israel launched a preemptive attack on Arab air forces after all that, it didn’t preemptively invade the West Bank. In fact, Israel’s prime minister asked the King of Jordan to stay out of the war, and, had he done so, he would have held on to the West Bank. But, goaded into it by Nasser, King Hussein started shelling Israel from the West Bank, and Israel drove them out in response.

    The real mistake, on Israel’s part, was to not annex the West Bank and expel its inhabitants immediately after the war. Cis-Jordan Israel/Palestine is too small a piece of land to be shared by two peoples who don’t get along. The Palestinians could have cleaved off a piece of Jordan for themselves. They still can, if they want to: they comprise the majority of Jordan’s population today.

  36. Yevardian says:

    Was Tom-R finally banned?

  37. Dave Pinsen says: • Website

    The BDS demands from Israel; 1) Ending its occupation and colonization of all Arab lands occupied in June 1967

    Does this mean they consider territory Israel has controlled since before 1967 legitimate, unoccupied, and uncolonized? If so, that’s weird. It’s not as if the Arab world was content with the shape of Israel prior to 1967; that shape was just determined by the armistice lines from 1949.

  38. alexander says:

    I think you are right on the tactic S2C, and that is precisely what is going on.

    I am not familiar enough with our laws to know which tax exempt donations to Israel fall within the legal framework of our federal statutes…and which do not.

    It may well be that a “donation” to build a” park” near Haifa , a “Synagogue” in Netanya …..or a “museum” outside of Tel Aviv falls completely within the legal tax exempt status of U.S. law….whereas building a “park , a “Synagogue”, or a” Museum “on stolen lands, within the Occupied Palestinian Territories, do not .

    It stands to reason they would “not” qualify, precisely” because” of the Nuremberg principles and the inadmissibility of acquiring territory through force or conquest.

    It seems that international law is crystal clear on the matter…as spelled out in U.N.S.C. resolution 242…and that the plaintiffs, rightly so, are using 242 to underpin their case.

    I think Mr Giraldi is correct in saying the US Government can find many ways, if it so chooses, to have the case dismissed , prior to the judge ever ruling on it…but it will be interesting to see what happens if our Government does “not” dismiss it, and the case moves forward.

    Uncle Sam can be extremely ruthless in righting “wrongs”…. especially if there is “big big money” to claw back , in the process.

  39. Karl says:

    >> a state for Muslims and a state for Jews

    you mean like…. Jordan and Israel ?

    Jordan is part and parcel of Mandatory Palestine. which is how the Brits were able to give it to a Saudi family.

    Britain lost lots of people trying to re-grab North America in 1812 – and Philip Giraldi is in mortal danger if he goes to Samaria, and whips out a foreign court judgement, a badge and a gun.

    We can talk about internationalizing Jerusalem the day after the Pope agrees to dis-establish the Swiss Guard & internationalize the Vatican.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  40. @Dave Pinsen

    “On November 11, 1966, the Syrian-sponsored militant group al-Fatah killed three Israeli soldiers with a landmine. Two days later, a detachment of Israeli troops struck back, decimating the town of el-Samu in the West Bank and killing 21 Palestinians. Here, Jordan’s failure to restrict an internal threat caused its embroilment in an unwanted conflict with Israel”

    Israel could have attempted working with Jordan whose King Hussein was opposed to Fatah using Jordan to launch attacks rather than provide Jordan with casus belli … speaking of painting the kettle black. Israel is no saint in the matter of the Six Days War, particularly in regards to Jordan –

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
  41. alexander says:


    It may be easy for you to have your judgement swayed by your own religious beliefs and your commitments to them .

    I appreciate that.

    May I remind you, that Jerusalem is home to not only the” Wailing Wall”, but the” Church of the Holy Sepulchre” and the ‘Dome of the Rock “.

    It is a city of enormous importance to people of different faiths.

    It may not dissuade you from disparaging those faiths which are not your” own”, but it certainly shines a light on why Jerusalem, for the sake of all civilization, should be a city at peace, and freely enjoyed by all those venture there, whatever their faiths may be.

    • Replies: @Avery
  42. Avery says:

    {..may not dissuade you from disparaging those faiths which are not your” own”, }

    Show me exactly which sentence in my post your consider “disparaging” other faiths.

    • Replies: @alexander
  43. alexander says:

    I believe the statement you made:

    What a joke: the epicenter of the three – three ?- great world religions ?

    seems to disparage, by implication, that some, or one, of the three world religions are “greater” than the others.?..and that some might not be” great” at all….

    No ?

    • Replies: @Avery
  44. Avery says:

    No: you read that sentence wrong.

    {What a joke: the epicenter of the three – three ?- great world religions ?}

    Note the emphasis on “three ?”: the sentence does not question the greatness of Islam, rather your claim that Jerusalem is the epicenter of three great religions.

    Note the next sentence:
    {Epicenter of Islam is Mecca, Saudi Arabia.}

    My argument is that just because Muslims invaded Jerusalem and took it by force, why should it be considered an epicenter of Islam ?
    My argument is that wherever Muslims invade, ethnically cleanse the indigenous peoples, slaughter them, forcibly Islamize those who do not wish to convert…..suddenly become “Muslim lands” and Muslims thereafter “consider” their own. So my counterargument is that if Muslims consider this or that, then Israel/Jews can also consider it. Muslims planted themselves in Jerusalem by force: Israelis are forcing them out by force. Where is the dichotomy ?

    To be clear: I am not a Jew, and have no love for the Israeli psychopath leaders or the state. They cause a lot of grief to Armenian Christians in Jerusalem, who were there long, long before Israel was founded. Since the appearance of Christ. And their Jewish Orthodox thugs regularly harass Armenian Orthodox priests in Jerusalem (spitting on them, roughing them up…and Israeli cops do nothing).

    But I strongly object to people prostrating themselves before Islam.
    On what bases do you consider Jerusalem the epicenter of Islam ?
    Please explain.

  45. alexander says:

    My claim is that it was the epicenter of the three great world religions …together.

    The importance of Jerusalem, to Islam, seems to rest in” The Dome of the Rock”, believed to be where Mohammed ascended to heaven.

    I think it is considered by many of that faith to be their second most holy site, second only, in fact, to Mecca.

    • Replies: @Avery
  46. @Karl

    The people of Italy, their leadership, and authorized representatives of Roman Catholicism agreed by treaty in 1929 on the resolution of the Rome Question: the Vatican is recognized as an independent State, and the Italian state recognizes Rome as its capital.

    The Brits “gave” what was not theirs to give — a nasty habit that many western colonizers indulged for centuries, and part of the crux of the problem today.

    Jewish zionists capitalized on that nasty habit of the Christian West by playing their trump card, which Yuri Slezkine identifies as the “outsider – broker – trickster;” Chaim Weizmann was instrumental in brokering that trickster maneuver by which Lord Balfour the Stupid gave Baron Rothschild that which the British did not have and also that had already been promised as spoils by Sykes and Picot.

    If the way-back machine is your frame of reference, and if winning vs. losing is your basis for claiming this or that chunk of Planet Earth, then the Jewish record vis a vis Jerusalem is 1-for-3: firstly, their own scriptures state that they took the land by invasion, theft, mayhem and slaughter.

    They maintained control over Jerusalem even when it was part of the Roman Empire, and with the indulgence of Roman authorities, until some hothead Jews rebelled against Rome. Rome crushed the revolt, Jews, as the losing entity, was expelled from Jerusalem. So it goes. According to H. Sacher, Jews have been smarting over that defeat for well over a millennia — world’s longest case of being a sore loser.

    The Zionist movement dates from A.D. 70, the year of the destruction of the Temple and the Jewish State.

    If Jews really really want to solve the Jewish question and return to their native land, they’ll in-gather themselves back to Ur. (RIP Helen Thomas but you were wrong.)

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
  47. Avery says:

    “Epicenter” by definition is the focal point: you can’t have two focal points.

    ” …their second most holy site, second only, in fact, to Mecca.”

    You contradict yourself: second only means Jerusalem is not an epicenter for Muslims: you yourself admit Mecca is.

    I accept Muslims consider Jerusalem important to Islam, but I already addressed the notion of “consider”.

    We probably have to agree to disagree on this item, but glad we had the discussion.

  48. alexander says:

    Hi Avery,

    No worries either way.

    My reference to “epicenter” was used to point to a “spot of convergence” where all three religions come together in a very small space. One where each religion has a uniquely significant chapter of their own history represented…and one where it is represented “there” like nowhere else.

    The idea was a little bit like (but not quite) three”religious” arrows being shot from different directions all coming together to hit a bulls eye in one unique spot.

    That spot being…..of course…..Jerusalem.

    Hence my use of the word “epicenter”.

  49. bjondo says:

    the wailing wall.
    is the wailing wall the 600 miles, 30′ high monster, winding through/dividing homes, farms, communities, families, water accessibility?

    pretty sure the brit mandate of palestine was a temporary guardianship arrangement. (and the league died). not an ownership right to be disposed of to settle an iou a couple of english owed to some jews.

    you cant force someone else to pay your debt(s) and have payment considered legal.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
  50. bjondo says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    mostly you are full of sh-t. your history is cameraesqe.

    driving into the sea

    would be dwarf ben gurion talking
    dont know anything about above site but only one not absolutely zionist i could find.

    from above link The Straits of Tiran

    In 1967, Israeli leaders repeatedly threatened to invade Syria and overthrow the Syrian government if Palestinian guerrilla actions across the border did not cease. On May 13, the Soviets informed Egypt officially that Israel was massing troops and was planning on invading Syria. On May 22, Egypt responded by announcing, in addition to the UN withdrawal, that the Straits of Tiran would be closed to “all ships flying Israeli flags or carrying strategic materials”, with effect from May 23.

    The rights of Egypt regarding the Straits of Tiran had been debated at the General Assembly pursuant to Israel’s withdrawal from the Sinai following the Suez Crisis. A number of states, including Australia, Canada, Denmark, the Netherlands, New Zealand, the United Kingdom and the United States argued that the Straits were international waters, and, as such, all vessels had the right of “free and unhampered passage” through them. India, however, argued that Egypt was entitled to require foreign ships to obtain its consent before seeking access to the gulf because its territorial sea covered the Strait of Tiran. Citing international law, Israel considered the closure of the straits to be illegal, and it had stated it would consider such a blockade a casus belli in 1957 when it withdrew from the Sinai and Gaza. Egypt stated that the Gulf of Aqaba had always been a national inland waterway subject to the sovereignty of the only three legitimate littoral States — Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt — who had the right to bar enemy vessels. The representative of the United Arab Republic further stated that “Israel’s claim to have a port on the Gulf was considered invalid, as Israel was alleged to have occupied several miles of coastline on the Gulfline, including Umm Rashrash, in violation of Security Council resolutions of 1948 and the Egyptian-Israel General Armistice Agreement.”

    an illegal state has no rights. israel, shut up.

    jews can cleave off a piece of jersey to be israel. maybe a landfill that smells like skunk water jewry is often using against the caged palestinians.

  51. Svigor says:

    Dumb f**k, in the sense of who empowers the Israelis, that is exactly correct.

    Diaspora Jewry empowers the Israelis, you nitwit.

    I’m sorry, did I call you a nitwit? I meant to say coward.

    Blaming the Christians takes about as much balls as blaming widows and orphans. Actually, it takes a lot less. Lots of people will still stick up for widows and orphans.


    • Replies: @Ronald Thomas West
  52. @Svigor

    So, the world’s 16 million Jews (let’s be generous) dictates ‘Christian America’ (approximately 300 million people, 80 million if you stick to American Protestant Evangelicals) policy propping up Bibi’s settlement policy in the West Bank. Who, then, are the pussies? Looks like the Christians, hands down. Heads, I win, tails, you lose. Dumb F**k.

  53. Both Sunni and Shi’ites consider the Al Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem to be the third holiest shrine in Islam, after Mecca and Medina.

  54. The New Church Struggle Get Equipped for the Assault on Christian Support for Israel

    Jews created Christian evangelicalism, or at least, according to Dexter van Zile, an evangelical Christian who shills for zionists, Jews desperately need to keep Christian zionists on the reservation.

    On the other hand, James Bradley’s writing strongly endorses RTW’s pov, that there is something evil at the core of Protestant Christianity (especially as expressed by American leaders back at least as far back as James K Polk; ratcheting up with William McKinley, and on steroids beginning with Teddy Roosevelt).

    They ‘missionary spirit’ or mirage, as Bradley terms it wrt the Chinese, has led American leaders to slaughter and dispossess sovereign people from China to Philippines to Iraq etc., all in the name of “we Christians know better how they should live.”

    This reviewer did not like Bradley’s The Imperial Cruise; a New York Times reviewer made the opposite assessment

    Bradley’s The China Mirage is less polarizing than Imperial Cruise, and forces an entirely different calculus of US involvement in WWII. Specifically, Bradley argues that there was no reason for US to go to war — rather, provoke a war — against Japan; it came about as part of a scam perpetrated by Christian supporters of Chaing Kai -Shek in opposition to the more nationally oriented Mao Tse-tung. Once again, the Christianizing impulse and sense of superiority was the driving dynamic. If, as Bradley argues, US war with Japan was “unnecessary,” and as Buchanan argues, war with Germany was unnecessary, then it’s looking more and more like Charles Lindbergh was correct, and millions of Russians, Germans and Poles were victims of evangelical arrogance and hubris raised to a degree that eventuated what Rick Atkinson calls “the greatest catastrophe in human history.” (Stand by, Rick; it ain’t over ’til the fat Kagans sing.)

    Most Christians are dumb as a box of rocks. They worship a book that most have not read with any sort of contextual or analytic awareness (Kevin MacDonald states that his interest in the sociology of Jews began with a critical reading of the Old Testament/Hebrew scriptures).

    • Agree: Carroll Price
    • Replies: @RobinG
  55. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Ronald Thomas West

    This is a non-sequitur. The shelling of West Jerusalem during the 1967 Six-Day War was by the Jordanian Army, not by Palestinian militants. Jordan was 100% responsible for that.

    • Replies: @Ronald Thomas West
  56. Dave Pinsen says: • Website

    If the Jews were sore losers for smarting over their defeat at the hands of the Roman Empire, what does that make Arabs today, whining about the West Bank, which they lost to a tiny, marginal country (Israel’s 1967 population < 3 million)?

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  57. Dave Pinsen says: • Website

    In the end, the British didn’t give the cis-Jordan portion of the Palestine Mandate to anyone; they just left on the day the Mandate expired, and the Jews and Arabs fought over it. The internationally-recognized territory of Israel isn’t based on any of the mooted Mandatory partition plans. It just reflects who controlled what at the time of the 1949 armistice.

    • Replies: @bjondo
  58. RobinG says:

    “Most Christians are dumb as a box of rocks.”

    Definitely the ones with their eyes glazed over: Rapture-Ready fruit cakes.

  59. bjondo says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    the beginning:

    “His Majesty’s government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people…” 1917

    the british did/didnt what?

    they tired of the jew’s terrorism and left and should have taken the jews with them. should never allowed jews into palestine.

    the jews began a war and took.

    “international” then is like international today. what countries are coerced.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
  60. Rurik says:

    Israel is a Jewish Supremacist Apartheid state.

    What’s in it for Zionist Christians?

  61. Rurik says:
    @Carlton Meyer

    Moreover, there is not a single Protestant, who make up 51% of our population…

    Even our hard core Protestant Congressmen utter no protest or comment. Why?

  62. @Dave Pinsen

    West Bank (and Gaza) Arabs are not so much “whining about” but protesting vociferously and demanding justice for having had their homes stolen from them.

    If someone steals your wallet, what do you do, Dave Pinsen?
    If you report to the police that someone punched you in the face, broke your teeth and stole your wallet, and the police tell you to suck it up, do you “whine about” it or do you take action?

    That’s the situation that applies to Palestinian Arabs who have been dispossessed by Israel.

    But there is more going on in the region that is all related to the kernel of conflict labeled Israel.

    Because of Israel (+ Abrahamism) the promise of self-determination of Arab states in the Ottoman empire was betrayed, back in 1913.

    Because of Israel ( + Abrahamism) the people of the entire region have been manipulated and persecuted ever since 1913.

    Because of Israel ( + Abrahamism) Russia, Germany and Poland etc. were vanquished; millions of people either killed or raped or ethnically cleansed — removed from their homes. Yes, Israeli zionism was at the center of “the way World War I ended” (quoting the words of David Ben Gurion), and of the war that destroyed Germany & so many Russians.

    It’s not just the West Bank that is the irritant about which Arabs “whine.”
    It is the murderous injustices perpetrated by zionists and Abrahamic Americans over the course of a century that is erupting in a demand for justice and for sovereignty.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  63. Dave Pinsen says: • Website

    Maybe the Arabs should have fought harder. In any case, time to move on, no? There’s plenty of land under Arab control where Arabs can build their ideal societies.

  64. Rurik says:

    It’s not just the West Bank that is the irritant about which Arabs “whine.”
    It is the murderous injustices perpetrated by zionists and Abrahamic Americans over the course of a century that is erupting in a demand for justice and for sovereignty.


  65. @Dave Pinsen

    In any case, time to move on, no? There’s plenty of land under Arab control where Arabs can build their ideal societies.

    cycle back to the stolen wallet analogy.

    Time to move on, no? There are plenty of wallets, and you can earn more money, get new credit cards, get a new driver’s license, replace your kids’ pictures. These days prosthetic dentistry can do wonders to rebuild smashed teeth — it shouldn’t cost that much and maybe your insurance will cover it.

    And that creep who punched you in the face and and broke your teeth — he should be allowed to get away with hurting you and with stealing your stuff because that’s how a well-ordered society is run.

    Thane Rosenbaum wrote a book called Payback about how the need for revenge is inherent in human nature.
    Don’t give me any crap about turning the other cheek. According to Rosenbaum, that’s a socially destructive practice.
    You’re going to need to take out your resentment over the bloody nose — or the dry cleaner’s bill to get the stains out of your new suede jacket. Take it out on someone else; get you your Payback. Smash a window somewhere. Beat up on your wife. That’s what social contract is all about, isn’t it?

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
  66. @Rehmat

    “2. Don’t worry about the US Supreme Court. Three of its nine judges are Zionist Jews, and the rest of them are Zionist Christians.”

    In any case, they’re nine unelected, unaccountable, ethics-free megalomaniacs.

  67. bjondo says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    a few arabs fought against a heavily armed, vicious, lying aggressor. the few arabs had old weapons and small amount of ammo.

    the land that the arabs live on is controlled by the zionized west except for syria which is under attack for that reason. and the land that the various arabs live on belongs to the arabs.

    what the jews live on is stolen. the jews belong in a toxic land fill in jersey. a land fill that exudes the stench of their skunk sweat. surrounded by a 30′ high, 6′ thick concrete wall.

    declaring a state on another’s land was the act of war.

    so many actions of violence by the jews from their 19th c infiltrations to the declaration to never ending aggression.

    israel and all its little rats, screw off.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    , @Reg Cæsar
  68. bjondo says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    a few arabs fought against a heavily armed, vicious, lying aggressor. the few arabs had old weapons and small amount of ammo.

    the land that the arabs live on is controlled by the zionized west except for syria which is under attack for that reason. and that land belongs to the arabs.

    what the jews live on is stolen and they belong in a toxic land fill in jersey. a land fill that exudes the stench of their skunk sweat.

    declaring a state on another’s land was the act of war.

    so many actions of violence by the jews from their 19th c infiltrations to the declaration to never ending aggression.

    israel and all its little rats, screw off.

  69. @SolontoCroesus

    “The demise of zionist oppression of Palestinians–and the removal of the Zionist extortion racket from the wallets of American taxpayers–with a whimper not a bang is eminently to be desired.”


  70. annamaria says:
    @U. Ranus

    “…how utterly hopeless the European situation has become.”
    Is not a genesis of the “utterly hopeless” situation involves this supposedly “sane” country? Perhaps you would want to dismiss the infamous Yinon plan as unrelated to the current “utterly hopeless” situation, but the saturation of the warmongering class with Israel-firsters (the ziocons) should give you a pose. There is a law of cause and effect… Because of the geography, Europe is suffering for being too pliable re the Lobby & MIC converging interests.

  71. @Mark Green

    “Unfortunately, the Treasury Dept is infested with Zionists. These operatives will do everything possible to exempt Israel from existing statutes and international laws.”

    You’re probably right.

  72. Dave Pinsen says: • Website

    No, the social contract is not about beating up your wife because someone else stole your wallet. That sounds like the attitude of the Muslims who attacked women in Cologne on New Year’s Eve. People who think that way don’t belong in civilized society.

    And, in any case, the analogy is false. Land isn’t a wallet, and the borders of lands have long been decided by wars. Mexico lost what’s now the US Southwest in a war. Should they launch terrorist attacks on us to regain it? Better to move on, no?

    • Replies: @RobinG
    , @Jeff Davis
  73. Dave Pinsen says: • Website

    When Britain withdrew from its Palestine Mandate, Israel declared its independence, and the surrounding Arab countries invaded, Israel had 0 tanks, 0 cannons, and fewer than 10 planes. Jordan, to name just one of its adversaries, had a legion armed and trained by the British, and led by a former British general, John Bagot Glubb ( ).

    • Replies: @bjondo
  74. RobinG says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    But we can’t move on, because ISRAEL is a MALIGNANT FUNGATING TUMOR whose exudate is contaminating not only the whole middle east but our body politic as well.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
  75. bjondo says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    jews make up histories to fit the stories they have created to fit their needs.

  76. @Dave Pinsen

    You ignored the the Israeli military incursion of Jordan several months previous, mr dyed in the wool hasbara. I apologize for the tardy reply, I’d been preoccupied with composing a satire on Christians:

    ^ It’s my habit not to obsess with Jews ;0)

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
  77. Svigor says:

    ^ It’s my habit not to obsess with Jews ;0)

    So we noticed.

  78. Svigor says:


  79. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Ronald Thomas West

    I didn’t ignore it; I just pointed it out was a non-sequitur. Before the Six-Day War there were numerous fedayeen attacks on Israel, and Israeli retaliatory raids. The West Bank remained in Jordanian hands. Jordan lost the West Bank after attacking Israel during the Six-Day War, after being asked by Israel to stay out of the war. By international law, if it were applied consistently, that would be Israel’s land by right of conquest.

    It certainly wouldn’t be the Palestinian’s land, because Israel didn’t take it from them, but from Jordan. And the Palestinians didn’t care enough to demand independence from Jordan for the 19 years Jordan controlled the West Bank. Which is unsurprising, considering they didn’t even think of themselves as Palestinians until after Israel was established. Prior to then, “Palestinian” and “Palestine” had Jewish connotations, as they usually referred to Jewish institutions (e.g., the Palestine Post, now the Jerusalem Post, The Palestine Orchestra, now the Israeli Philharmonic).

  80. Dave Pinsen says: • Website

    You can’t move on because you have an irrational obsession.

    If Israel disappeared in a puff of smoke tomorrow, Iran and Saudi Arabia would still be engaged in their proxy war, Syria and Libya would still be flaming hellholes, and German women would still be getting assaulted by Muslim migrants, and our “body politic” would have the same problems it does today.

    • Replies: @bjondo
  81. bjondo says:
    @Dave Pinsen


    the newly free palestine would still be a stinking, toxic, wasteland with ugly, mind-numbing architecture because the jews who just disappeared in a puff of skunk smoke left their shit.

    the rest of your blather is BS and irrelevant

    how much does benyammerin nuthinyahoo pay you to do the jew trick of distorting, fabricating history?

  82. alexander says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    Mr Pinsen ,

    You make some interesting points, but I have a few questions for you.

    Wasn’t the area of land, that is home to Israel today as well as the West Bank and Gaza…all considered the British Mandate of Palestine from 1922 up until 1948 ?

    Wasn’t there a clear division made during the Sykes-Picot agreement that provided a separation between Transjordan and Palestine.?..

    .Wasn’t that division the natural boundary of the Jordan river …with Palestine to the West of it…and what is now Jordan to its East?

    If that is not the case then why was The Mandate of Palestine to be divided along specific lines in “the partition plan” of 1948…if (as you say) there was never any “Mandate of Palestine” to begin with ?

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
  83. Dave Pinsen says: • Website

    I didn’t say there was no Palestine Mandate; in fact, I have referred to it several times in this thread. I said that the Arabs who lived there didn’t consider themselves “Palestinians” at the time. The idea of Arab “Palestinians” as people/nationality separate from a broader identity as Arabs is a phenomenon that didn’t emerge until after the establishment of Israel. And even then, it was fairly slow to emerge.

    For example, the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) wasn’t founded until 1964, by the Arab League, in Cairo.

    Stop and consider that for a moment. Today, Palestinians claim to want a state on the West Bank and Gaza. In 1964, Gaza was controlled by Egypt, and the West Bank by Jordan. Arabs could have given the Palestinians a state on 100% of the West Bank and Gaza then, but they didn’t. Why not?

  84. geokat62 says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    In 1964, … Arabs could have given the Palestinians a state on 100% of the West Bank and Gaza then, but they didn’t. Why not?

    This should be a question on Jeopardy. Your expectation is that most dumb goy would get it wrong because they have been fed a pack of lies for so long that the truth is no longer in sight.

    If the Egyptians and Jordanians had suggested in 1964 that the Palestinian state was comprised solely of Gaza and the West Bank, it would have underminded the Palestinians’ legitimate claim to the rest of Mandate Palestine.

    With regard to your claim that “the Arabs who lived there didn’t consider themselves ‘Palestinians’ at the time,” this point is irrelevant because you can’t get around the fact that there were human beings residing there for centuries before Theodor Herzl came up with the brilliant idea of establishing a Jewish homeland in a sea of Arabs. But he knew that the key was to rely on Hasbarah so they came up with the brilliant lie of ” a land without a people for a people without a land.” And it worked and it would still be working if it weren’t for this damn internet thingy where people can discover the truth without having to rely on “the narrative” that is pumped out by MSM… but you already knew all this, right?

  85. @Dave Pinsen

    Prior to then, “Palestinian” and “Palestine” had Jewish connotations

    To some people perhaps. But Palæstina was actually the Latin name for the ‘land of the Philistenes’, who had been the enemies of the Israelites. (You’ve heard about that whole David vs. Goliath thing, right? According the Bible, Goliath was a Philistene.) The name never had any Jewish connotations – at least not to most people.

    • Replies: @Avery
    , @Dave Pinsen
  86. Avery says:
    @Seamus Padraig

    If anyone knows the answer, I’d be curious to know.
    (I have no dog in this fight: just an observer).

    As far as I know Philistines were not of Arab ethnicity.
    Today’s Palestinians are of Arab ethnicity.

    Aside from the common name they inherited, do today’s Palestinians/Arabs inhabiting the land have any genetic links to Philistines ?

  87. @Dave Pinsen

    The idea of Arab “Palestinians” as people/nationality separate from a broader identity as Arabs is a phenomenon that didn’t emerge until after the establishment of Israel.

    And there it is! I was just waiting for it – Golda Meir’s old dictum: ‘There is no such thing as a Palestinian.’

    But there are two important things to note here:

    1.) That’s a dangerous argument for a Zionist to make. After all, what if it should turn out that, as some contend (Shlomo Sand et al.), there really is no such thing as a distinct and continuous Jewish ‘people’ either? What if Azhkenazic Jews really are what they look like: a bunch of (mostly) white people whose ancestors converted to Judaism ages ago, before that was forbidden by the Greco-Roman Church? If true, that would weaken the case for a ‘national’ homeland for the Jews (Herzl) considerably. You cannot inherit what didn’t belong to your ancestors.

    2.) Whether or not Palestinians (or Jews) are a distinct people is kind of irrelevant anyway. One could just as well argue against Zionism on strict Lockean property-rights grounds. If the Arabs, having been resident in Palestine for at least a thousand years prior to the Balfour Declaration, and having worked, farmed, built up and improved that land, have the same rights to life, liberty and property as the rest of us (so goes John Locke’s old theory), then wouldn’t Zionism constitute a crime? Haven’t the Israelis engaged in an invasion of someone else’s land, with the intent to steal that land, and murder or oppress all those who resist? And don’t we all acknowledge that those who are being attacked and invaded in such a fashion retain a right to resist and defend themselves and their property? And anyway, isn’t that what the Germans did to the Jews in WW2 – kill them and take their property? And aren’t we all now supposed to regard said crime as being a crime of the worst conceivable kind, which most never-ever-ever under any circumstances happen again? Isn’t that why we go around building shrines and monuments to the Holocaust all over the west – even in countries where it didn’t happen?

    Hmmm. Food for thought, eh?

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen

    Mark Green interviewing Dr. Kevin MacDonald

    One of the core findings of MacDonald’s research into Jewishness is the fierce commitment to preserving genetic segregation:

    “[In my book,] People Who Shall Dwell Alone, I talk about the fact that if you look at the jewish religion it basically — one of the main things about it is the attempt to segregate the Jewish gene pool. to make sure there were no out marriages and so on. and that was pursued. So when we do population studies in the 20th century, and there are an awful lot of them now, There’s no question that Jews are a unique gene pool.”

    Then Green asks:

    “But Very similar to Arabs still, or are they quite distinct from Arabs?”

    MacDonald responds:

    They are distinguishable from Arabs but if you look at what they’re most similar to, they’re most similar to the Palestinians, ironically. So when you talk about the conflict in the ME you’re not talking about a conflict between two very different people genetically. Different group identities

    Green nods his head in agreement.

    –This interaction between Green, who is Jewish, and MacDonald is fascinating on several levels.

    The main point for this Unz thread is that “Jews –for whom genetic segregation is the most important raison d’être — are genetically most similar to Palestinians.”

    Those very same Palestinians who, according to Pinsen, did not exist, i.e. had a different group identity, before 1907 when Viennese Jews sent Arthur Ruppin to Palestine to assess the status of Eastern and other European Jews who went there to die.

  89. bjondo says:

    “…are genetically most similar to Palestinians.”

    on this, macd is out of his mind or on his knees.


    how many of these population studies done by jews(jew hirelings) with an agenda?

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  90. @SolontoCroesus

    –This interaction between Green, who is Jewish, and MacDonald is fascinating on several levels.

    Green was very quick — eager, even– to ascertain that Jews are distinguishable from Arabs.

    It brought to mind the epigraph in Gil Eyal’s The Disenchantment of the Orient: yo

    At the end of every Hebrew sentence that you utter,
    There sits an Arab, sucking his hookah.
    Even if it begun in Siberia
    Or in Hollywood, with Hava Nagilah.
    – Me’ir Ariel

    What most strikes fear in the Jewish breast is that Jews will be associated with their fellow Semites.

    As Yossi Alpher explained to Bruce Reidel last year, zionist Israeli Jews think of themselves as the equivalent of ancient Persians — who are Aryans, of course, not Arabs, who are Semitic.

    We Israelis, again, back to that isolation — we Israelis, to this day, have a need to — a deep need to be recognized and accepted by the region.
    You see, Bibi’s demand, which is supported by most Israelis, that the Palestinians recognize us as a Jewish state, or the state of the Jewish people — the nation-state of the Jewish people — this goes way back, this need to be recognized. It explains our relationships with some of the Christian and Kurdish and Druze minorities as well, and so at the height of the periphery doctrine, when things are going well, there’s this sense that the ancient peoples of the Middle East have created an alliance, the people who precede the Arabs, okay.

    We go back with Iran, we just celebrated Purim, all right, we go back 2,600 years with Iran. The Egyptian, the Ethiopian national narrative is King Solomon and the Queen of Sheba. So, this is almost a biblical — a new biblical chapter.
    This is how some people in Israel felt.

    There were also some people who were just cynical,practitioners of realpolitik. Everybody in Tehran and in Addis and in Ankara were cynical practitioners of realpolitik. They did not reciprocate. They said, we kidded ourselves that they did. And we still do to this day, because if you believe that this is — we are somehow Middle Eastern, ancient blood brothers, then who’s Khomeini? This wasn’t meant to be.

    fuggedabout Sunni vs Shiite; that is a diversion dreamed up by the masters of divide and conquer.

    The real conflict in the ME resides smack dab in the middle of the zionist heart: Jews cannot stand being Semites. They want to be Aryans.

    Jews are the Alice Roosevelts of the world, acting outrageously out of the profound feeling of being unloved by her father’s new wife while simultaneously hating her own mother, whom she really never knew.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
  91. @bjondo

    on this, macd is out of his mind or on his knees.

    — or as clever a wordsmith as his interviewer.

    Aren’t Palestinians Arabs?

  92. alexander says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    Dear Mr Pinsen,

    Nothing in the way the state of Israel has acted, from its inception, represents a profound difficulty to understand.

    The expulsion of 700 thousand Palestinians, during the birth of the State in 1948, many can argue, was needed if Israel was to be born as a democracy with a substantive Jewish majority.

    Seeking to” hide” these expulsions and ethnic cleansing’s from the world, makes perfect sense too, on the heels of the global condemnation of that self same behavior being visited on the Jews in Nazi Germany.

    It makes sense too that Israel would recognize itself in a permanent state of war with all those neighboring states that refused to acknowledge the legitimacy of its existence.

    It also makes enormous strategic sense for Israel to seek to incapacitate those states, by whatever means available, and neutralize their war making Powers.

    An “enemy” that is divided (at war within itself) is much less capable of making war on Israel.

    What perhaps makes less sense is for Israel to use lands which it has “conquered” to build “settlements”…. which is universally recognized as an international crime.

    Whatever the enemy chooses or chooses “not” to do, Israel’s conduct should always have its foot on the “right” side of international law…..not the “wrong ” side.

    Israel may have succeeded in dominating its enemies to the point where seizure of their territory and the occupation of that territory, during “wartime”, is justified.

    But its justification begins to erode, quite rapidly, when the enemy has agreed to the terms of the internationally mandated solution, and Israel has not.

    Israel has every reason, in so many ways, to distrust, that states opposed to its existence, would, given the chance and the military might, rise up to exterminate Israel.

    But that is no excuse for Israel to engage in the extermination of Palestine, absent their power to do so.

    If anything, the extermination of the state of Palestine as recognized in U.N.S.C. resolution 242, re-legitimizes the enmity of Israels enemies, endows that enmity with the tools of international law and humanitarian justice, and alienates many of Israels allies, which are , and have been, most sympathetic to its cause.

    One does not have to be a genius to look back over the last fifteen years and see that the wars the United States has engaged in, primarily at the behest of Israel, have created untold suffering to tens of millions of totally innocent people ,wreaked havoc on the civilizing force of international law, drained the United States of tens of trillions of dollars it simply doesn’t have, and eroded many of the noblest characteristics Americans have always cherished most, about their country.

    It seems hard for you to argue with well informed individuals, like geokat62, when they say ” Thanks a lot buddy !” because they are well within their rights, given the circumstances we are in, to say so.

    • Agree: Orville H. Larson
    • Replies: @annamaria
  93. Mark Green says: • Website

    I think that the case can be made that the entire Zionist project is not about protecting Jews from another Hitlerian-style ‘extermination’, but to shore up and improve the Jewish genome.

    High levels of Jewish intermarriage have prompted many leaders in the Jewish community to call this ongoing dilution of the Jewish genome a ‘silent Holocaust’.

    For this reason, no ‘interfaith’ marriage involving a Jew can be performed in Israel. And there is no greater taboo in Israel than a Jew producing offspring with an Arab. This genetic threat is surely why leading Zionists want to expel as many native Palestinians from Israel as possible since, over time, there could very possibly be massive race-mixing between Jews and similar-looking Arabs.

    Zionism is committed to sustaining Jewish genetic purity and Jewish genetic continuity. These are core Zionist values.

    PS- Mark Green is NOT Jewish.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  94. one way the initiative of suing Israeli settlers might be supported by activists or concerned people in US is by contacting your alma mater and/or its law school and requesting their support.

    those who donate to their college alma mater/ law school might consider conditioning future support on the engagement of their college with the Suing-Israeli-Settlers initiative. For example, second- or third-year law students might take on the project to draft an amicus brief.

    The Israeli settler lawsuit might best be framed as an initiative in support of justice for all American taxpayers, who ought not be underwriting the illegal activities of Israeli settlers.

  95. @Dave Pinsen

    Dave Pinsen wrote:

    “By international law, if it were applied consistently, that would be Israel’s land by right of conquest”

    Having been published in international law in regards to ‘the right of self determination of peoples’ I had a good laugh at that line. Even if your assertion were true, the Palestinian Arabs should have been subsequently ceded ‘the right of offensive self-determination’ on account of behaviors by the State of Israel. Certainly there is much hypocrisy in international law and I can think of two nation-states, one quite large (empire) and one quite small (empire out-post) have done much damage to international law over the course of the past half century or so.

    Israel’s contribution to the damage is arguably as great as her sponsor’s. Here’s a (2002) sampler:

    On the eve of a possible U.S.-British assault on Iraq, Zunes decided to examine in depth one of the main arguments used by the Bush administration to justify changing the Baghdad regime – Iraq’s deliberate refusal to implement UN Security Council resolutions. He systematically went through all the states given instructions by the security council to find out how common a phenomenon it was. His results were somewhat surprising: “Some of the countries are considered and are known to be friendly to the U.S.,” he told Ha’aretz yesterday. “In the vast majority of cases I examined, the governments violating UN Security Council resolutions are countries that receive significant military, diplomatic and financial aid from the U.S.”

    Israel leads the list. Since 1968, Israel has violated 32 resolutions that included condemnation or criticism of the governments’ policies and actions…

    Per my position for the record, insofar as any international law perspective concerning the legitimacy of the State of Israel per se, it is the Arab states themselves are included among those legitimized creation of that now very rogue state. How some might ask? By joining the United Nations and thus signing on to the veracity of that multilateral organization’s acts. ‘That horse has bolted the corral’ would be the apropos folk wisdom per an international law principle as old as Rome: “No nation may go against its own acts.” When they joined the UN, they signed on to the UN’s actions, like those actions or not.

    Israel, on the other hand, is a case study in ‘biting the hand that feeds you’ (or in this case, ‘the hand that created you’) ever since.

    The old ‘right of conquest’ is long dead.

  96. @Mark Green

    PS- Mark Green is NOT Jewish.

    Green was born to a Jewish family[2][3][4] in Brooklyn, New York.

    • Replies: @Mark Green
  97. Mark Green says: • Website

    Hi Solonto. You are right about that. But I’m not Mark J. Green.

    I am Mark P. Green.

    Mark J. Green ran unsuccessfully for both NY mayor as well as the US Senate. Smart guy. Liberal. Jewish. Very prominent. Mark J. Green also used to be a regular guest on Buckley’s ‘Firing Line’.

    I’m the relatively obscure Mark P. Green. I hosted Flashpoint (tv talk show) for awhile about ten years ago. I Interviewed Kevin MacDonald, Bradley Smith, Jeff Blankfort (and even Steve Sailor). My dad was from Kansas.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  98. @Mark Green

    How do you do, Mark P. Green.
    Pleased to meet you.

    Mark J. Green looked like the interviewer in the linked video, seemed to have the credentials that coincided with the interviewer.

    I thought the interviewer (You!) to be a very smart guy, quick thinking on his feet, well versed and prepared for the interview and the (well-matched) personality, but a bit defensive. I wondered whether the interviewer might have had training in psychoanalysis.

    In any event, sorry for the confusion, and thank you for an insightful interview. Are there links to your other interviews?

    • Replies: @Mark Green
  99. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Seamus Padraig

    Now we’re talking about 3 completely different time periods, separated by millenia. Let’s clarify:

    – ~1,000 BC. King David’s time. The Philistines were indeed an enemy of the Israelites, a seafaring, non-Semitic people, perhaps initially from Southern Europe.

    – 135 AD. The Romans create the province Syria Palestina after defeating the second Jewish revolt in what had previously been the Iudea, or Judea province. At the same they renamed Jerusalem to Aelia Capitolina. At this point, the name “Palestine” had no Jewish connotations, and that’s probably why the Romans chose it: after two rebellions by the native Jews, the Romans wanted to disassociate the land from them.

    – 1932 AD. The Romans are long gone, as are the Philistines. The British control what is now Israel, after having wrested it from 400 years of Ottoman Empire occupation. Jews there found the Palestine Post, now called the Jerusalem post. At this time, “Palestine” connotes Jews, not Philistines, or today’s Palestinians.

  100. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Seamus Padraig

    And there it is! I was just waiting for it – Golda Meir’s old dictum: ‘There is no such thing as a Palestinian.’

    Nope, not what I said. Today there are people who consider themselves Palestinians, and the world considers them Palestinians as well. There is indeed such a thing as Palestinians now, and there was such a thing when Golda Meir was prime minister of Israel. But there wasn’t so much when Israel was founded. The national identity of Palestinians was largely formed in the UN-subsidized refugee camps their Arab neighbors confined them to after 1948.

    That’s completely understandable: separate a group like that and they will form a separate identity. On the other hand, if you assimilate disparate groups, like, for example, Israel did with Jews displaced from Arab countries from Iraq to Morocco, then that doesn’t happen. Descendants of Jews exiled from Iraq to Israel think of themselves as Israelis today. Palestinians in neighboring Arab countries would think of themselves as Egyptians or Jordanians or whatever today had they been allowed to assimilate.

    • Replies: @Seamus Padraig
  101. Dave Pinsen says: • Website

    What most strikes fear in the Jewish breast is that Jews will be associated with their fellow Semites.

    It didn’t strike fear in Disraeli’s breast, IIRC. He embraced the connection, as a number of Jews did in the 19th Century, seeing Arabs as noble “Jews on horseback”.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  102. Mark Green says: • Website

    Hi Solonto. Assuming my website is still up and running ( there should be a few other TV interviews there of interest.

    I was the among the first (but hopefully, not the last) TV talk show hosts to feature ‘extreme’ critics of Israel, Jewish myths, Jewish deception, Jewish racism, and the omnipresent Jewish Lobby. It’s a thankless task but it must be done!

  103. geokat62 says:

    I thought the interviewer (You!) to be a very smart guy, quick thinking on his feet, well versed and prepared for the interview and the (well-matched) personality…

    Mark, I too just finished viewing the video and I have to agree with S2C, you did a splendid job interviewing MacDonald.

    If others would like to see more of Mark’s interviews, simply type in “Flashpoint and Mark Green” in the YouTube search bar and a whole bunch of previous episodes pop up.

  104. @Dave Pinsen

    excellent example.
    An Anglican, if I’m not mistaken.

    Was Disraeli a zionist? He died just as the Haskalah movement was in its infancy in Russia, and Jews were flocking to Germany to participate in the prosperity engendered via German unification and industrialization. It was a period of Jewish assimilation into German/European culture. And also assimilation into British culture, presumably.

    Did Disraeli have the same need for recognition of Jewish relatedness to ancient Persia as Yossi Alpher explained was characteristic of so many Israelis today?

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
  105. Bob Bogus says:

    Aw come on, Phil. Don’t ya know this is the United States of Israel?

  106. Dave Pinsen says: • Website

    Sure, Disraeli was an Anglican, who bragged about how his ancestors were priests in the Temple of Solomon, and wrote a series of novels featuring a Sephardic Jewish character who referred to Jews as “Mosaic Arabs”.

    Disraeli died before modern Zionism started in earnest, but he (at least as a novelist) was part of another movement, which ended up having some overlap with Zionism: Jewish Orientalism, which arose as a response to German Völkisch movement of the late 19th century. To oversimplify, the Völkisch movement identified Jews as aliens unrooted to the land in Europe and rejected their attempts at cultural assimilation, so Orientalist Jews reached back to their old attachment to the land in the Orient (Mideast). I guess a weak recent analogy would be the Black Pride movement.

    As Tom Reiss noted in his book The Orientalist, Orientalist Zionists like Martin Buber saw Zionism as part of a broader movement that would “signal the rebirth of Asia and the end of colonialism”. Sounds crazy now, but Jewish Orientalists saw themselves as brothers of the Arab and the Persian, and thought they could all achieve prosperity together. I’m guessing that Kumbaya idea died during the Arab riots of 1920.

  107. Robzview says:

    Muslims May or may not have invaded Jerusalem but Palestinians have been there forever unlike the Jewish converts from Europe

  108. Robzview says:

    I,and I expect many other contributors are laughing at you and your piss poor historical knowledge – Israel started the June ’67 war with a sneak attack on the Egyptian Air Force substantially destroying it on the ground. You also clearly have no understanding of the Geneva conventions which prohibit the acquisition of territory BY FORCE and name no mention of “defensive” war justifying such acquisition.

  109. argos says:

    It will never see the light of day not in israeli America.

  110. @Dave Pinsen

    Until the modern state of Israel was proclaimed in 1948, there were, strictly speaking, no Israelis either.

    But I noticed that you kind of breezed past the main point: changing what you call the Palestinians does not change what/who they are, and does not weaken their claim to that land one iota. Assigning them a new name or national category is just a sleazy rhetorical trick employed by some Zionists (like Meir) to legitimize the idea of robbing their land and throwing them all into Jordan, or wherever.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
  111. @Dave Pinsen

    Dave Pinson,
    So, when eventually, the Arabs outnumber the Jews in Palestine (or what should be Israel + Palestine, but which is “greater Israel”) and take over and give the Jews the same that they now dish out; I’ll bet you will sing a different tune. When you get screwed, you are incapable of “moving on”.

  112. Priss Factor [AKA "The Priss Factory"] says: • Website

    Way of US media

  113. On its merits, it would seem that the case against American funders of illegal settlers and settlement should be allowed to proceed but the U.S. criminal justice system has certainly produced any number of unpleasant surprises over the past fifteen years.

    Lawsuit of this nature will be summarily dismissed by US courts, just as they would be in Israel. Why? Because, with few excepti0ns, Zionist now occupy practically all US judgeships, both state and federal..

  114. Mr. Giraldi writes: “The scrambling by the Justice Department to avoid any involvement in such an action and make it go away would be quite entertaining to watch and one can be sure that the case would be expeditiously dismissed by the presiding judge as “frivolous” or “without merit” or “lacking jurisdiction.” ”

    The DOJ won’t have to scramble much. The judge will pitch this in the bat of an eye. The suit, which alleges that “Defendant Treasury owes these Plaintiffs and all American citizens a duty to monitor the activities of all tax-exempt charities,” is brought under the federal “mandamus” statute, 28 USC 1361, which states: “The district courts shall have original jurisdiction of any action in the nature of mandamus to compel an officer or employee of the United States or any agency thereof to perform a duty owed to the plaintiff.” The judge will first say that plantiffs have no “standing,” under a long line of USSC cases holding that aggrieved “citizens” or “taxpayers” have to allege a harm specific to themselves. You can’t sue based on a harm to the whole country (one of the reasons the Chris Hedges’ type NDAA and NSA suits got tossed–if the government fucks all of us, nobody can sue). The judge will then say that under other USSC decisions, you can sue under the “mandamus” statute only if the defendant failed to perform some binding ministerial duty–like, for instance, refusing to issue marriage licenses to gays. You can’t sue over any “discretionary” act–any act that involves even the slightest cogitation. Heckler v. Ringer (1984).

    The lawyer who drafted this complaint either has no business doing this kind of litigation or was put up to it by the scumbag Zionist enterprises themselves, in order to secure an adverse decision, which can then be pointed to as “precedent” (even if nonbinding) when a real suit is brought.

    • Replies: @Ronald Thomas West
  115. annamaria says:

    The Jews have been using a notion of “superior moral ground” for their many claims. The policies of the state of Israel have undermined this ground. Hence the untenable position of defenders of Israel: the louder they try to assert the inherent Jewish righteousness, the more obvious the Israel’s trespassing and violations are. The facts rejects the alleged Jewish righteousness, while revealing the ordinary vices of greed and ethnic snootiness and the primitive joy of degrading and killing “others.” The Lobby and ziocons have a lot to answer for.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  116. Rehmat says:
    @Regnum Nostrum

    But dear, there were no Jews during King Solomon time. According to Israeli historian Dr. Shlomo Sand, “Jews were invented only a century ago.”

  117. Rehmat says:

    Can you prove that Christians and Jews in Constantinople and Anotolia were slaughtered by Muslims as the Christian Franks and Crusaders slaughtered Muslims and Jews in Spain and Palestine?

    Try to read some object history book for a change, dude.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
  118. @Abner Hosmer

    “or was put up to it … in order to secure an adverse decision, which can then be pointed to as “precedent” (even if nonbinding) when a real suit is brought”

    Similar or related to corrupt judges actions in cases of:

    stealth precedent erosion: Write the opinion in case y in a way contrary to what precedent x implies, but do not expressly refer to precedent x. Then, in later cases, rely on y as precedent and ignore x, or disclaim the force of x by pointing to a “tension” between x and y

    Shouldn’t be surprising in a nation where judges attend parties thrown by drug cartels…

    “We also had information on campaign fundraisers and parties in La Union that the [Zetas] cartel held for officials from New Mexico and El Paso. A lot of important people were at those parties, such as bankers, judges, and law enforcement officers.”

    …in environment where lawyers and judges could be blackmailed by the likes of MOSSAD, the USA would be ripe for picking if only because our system is corrupt to the core –

  119. @annamaria

    the question begged is whether this “primitive joy of degrading and killing “others.”” is a recent aberration or an inherent characteristic.

    Inasmuch as the same “primitive joy” is recorded in ancient Hebrew scripture, and that Jews celebrate to this day those primitive joys — Passover, the celebration of the Hebrew people stealing from, then slaughtering the children of, Egyptians who had been their host and protectors for centuries; Purim, the celebration of Esther and Mordechai overthrowing the government of their host and protecter, the Persian king and people, and slaughtering 75,000 innocent Persians who had only recently contributed their gold and treasure to enable the Yehud to return to their holy Zion — it would do well for those charged with the protection of the American people to be wary regarding collaboration with people who may lay claim to such a legacy.

    Raise your hand if you recognize a pattern.

    The tragedy of the American — and Jewish — people is that the USA is led by people like Ed Royce — who does not perceive the pattern that will lead to the destruction of USA, and Eliot Engel, among many others, who are preparing to betray their own nation to the ideology of those who follow the primitive Hebrew ideology. The ideology afflicts both Jewish and ‘Christian;’ I call it Abrahamism. It is destructive.

  120. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Seamus Padraig

    Is it a “sleazy rhetorical trick” to note that Palestinians didn’t care enough to demand independence in the West Bank and Gaza during the 18 years those territories were occupied by Jordan and Egypt? No, it’s evidence that they didn’t think of themselves as a separate Arab nation then. The sleazy rhetorical trick is to take today’s Palestinian national consciousness, forged in part by their use as political pawns by other Arabs, and transplant it back to the 1940s.

    • Replies: @Heath
    , @Seamus Padraig
  121. Dave Pinsen says: • Website

    Islam is a religion of peace. It’s hard to imagine Muslims slaughtering anyone in the past, given how peaceful they are today.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  122. I know I’m a little late to this article, but isn’t this interesting:
    “Christians” United For Israel?
    David Brog (Jewish) is the powerhouse behind the Christian organization (Christians United For Israel), yet he’s also a conservative (non-Messianic) Jew. He brought two other Jews on board: Shari Dollinger from Atlanta as one of his coordinators and Ari Morgenstern as communications director. Morgenstern ensures CUFI’s messaging is consistent with what Brog wants—which is to convey that evangelical Christians support Israel, yet (to his Jewish supporters) are also “safe” because CUFI will never proselytize.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  123. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Dean Havens

    Conference in Los Angeles Jan 18 2016: Will Israel Lose Christian Support?

    In response to the challenge of anti-Zionism in American evangelicalism, . . .a one-day conference in Los Angeles . . . will take place on Jan. 18, 2016, . . . titled “Evangelical Christians, Jews and Israel: Looming Threats To An Historic Friendship.”

    . . . The keynote speaker will be David Suissa, president of Tribe Media Corp., which publishes the Jewish Journal of Greater Los Angeles.

    The goals of the conference are to educate both Christians and Jews about the campaign to divide evangelicals from Israel, promote awareness of the Jewish roots of Christianity, and inform people about the status of Christians in Israel.

    The conference comes at a crucial time, as Islamists are murdering Jews and Christians throughout the world.

    This conference is badly needed, now more than ever.

  124. @Dave Pinsen

    “Better to move on, no?”

    The Jews would like that, no? The Palestinians,… not so much.

    And it’s the aggrieved Palestinians that you want to “move on”, no? Which means that it is totally up to the Palestinians to decide to move on or not move on. Currently, they don’t seem to be wanting to move on, although to be honest, their freedom of movement under Israeli occupation — and in the case of Gaza, virtual imprisonment — is severely constrained.

    For the sake of argument however, let’s assess that they currently don’t choose to “move on”, but rather to continue to resist the past and ongoing Zionist geopolitical crime-in-progress. And let us further suppose that they remain committed to this posture of resistance,…indefinitely,… and patiently,… inflicting on the Zionist criminal project an endless state of low-level, asymmetric, unconventional, ***perpetual*** war.

    Then an entirely different choice to “moving on” presents itself: a modernized Arab polity “liberates” the Arab peoples from the corrupt Arab monarchies, takes back the Arab oil patrimony, uses that massive oil wealth to bulk up militarily, and finally, by sheer force of numbers, destroys the Zionist cancer, returning the Mideast to a state of peace. Or at least a Mideast free from the psychopathic depredations of the overweening Jews.

    This outcome conforms to the Jews’ five-thousand year pattern of attempted suicide-by-goy. Israel cannot continue to commit its savagery in full view of the world and expect survive. The world will turn away, America will turn away, and Israel will be destroyed. That the Jews think otherwise, believing somehow that their nukes will protect them, just goes to prove how bat crap crazy they are. No, the Jews will fall victim yet again to their eternal blind zealotry.

  125. Heath says:

    The illegal squatters whose vile presence in Palestine has always been unjust, and defiles the land/indignous owners of Palestine. The Ashkenazi’s have no historical, or blood lineage with the Hebrews, or Abraham. What they have always been is a fraud as are the network of mendacious terrorist organizations funding them. Furthermore what has Israel ever done for the US??? Nothing.

    When the US fights a war for Israel, the Zionist entity smirks, sits on its hands and through AIPAC manipulates for more American Tax Payer Money. What needs to be done is a dismantling of the Zionist spy apparatus, and all of the Lobby groups doing its bidding. Israel has never been a friend and certainly deserves to be kicked hard to the curb.

  126. Svigor says:

    “Christians” United For Israel?
    David Brog (Jewish) is the powerhouse behind the Christian organization (Christians United For Israel), yet he’s also a conservative (non-Messianic) Jew. He brought two other Jews on board: Shari Dollinger from Atlanta as one of his coordinators and Ari Morgenstern as communications director. Morgenstern ensures CUFI’s messaging is consistent with what Brog wants—which is to convey that evangelical Christians support Israel, yet (to his Jewish supporters) are also “safe” because CUFI will never proselytize.

    Croesus calls this “Abrahamism,” while “Noahide” is what springs to my mind. Definitely heretics. But heresy is bound to flourish when the true religion is being destroyed.

  127. Heath says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    Why would the Palestinians need to declare anything when it was their lands to begin with? These vile Ashkenazi Fake Jews/Zionists making the utter fraud that they were connected with the Hebrews, and Abraham when they never were further cements the illegitimacy of the illegal squatters and Zionists as a whole.

    Zionism has no mention in any holy text, and has no historical connection with Judaism, and you have the utter audacity to ask why the Palestinians did not make verbal claims to their homeland???

    The Palestinians have always known that Zionism was, and is an utter fraud, and uses Judaism as an excuse to exploit, thieve, subjugate, and murder the rightful owners of the land. Go back to sleep Faker….

  128. annamaria says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    You have placed yourself in a glass house. Look at composition of Israelis and count carefully the former Soviets, these economic migrants that would kiss Israel good-bye as soon as they had a chance to settle legally in Germany, the US, France, and UK. What does exactly make this motley group into rightful owners of Palestinian land? Do you really believe that the religious fanatics living in the illegal settlements (and participating routinely in militant and humiliating acts against the natives) do indeed represent the noble traditions of Judaism?
    There was an interesting post on the stories of Purim and Pesakh, which describe the ungratefulness and blood-thirstiness of ancient Jews. These stories do not present Judaism as a religion of peace, not at all. Could you dare to acknowledge that neither religion nor ethnicity define a person? This post was not intended to defend the religious fanatics of Islam. The post is just a reaction to your over-confident righteous posture of a believer into Jewish supremacy. The tragedy of modern Jewry is an extraordinary high percentage of Jews among the leading US neocons, the leading warmongers.

  129. @Quartermaster

    Big If fella-“If the territory was acquired in defensive war, then you lost your land. ”
    I suggest you consider the real facts—Jews are habitual liars and every cry from Israel that they invaded us is hog wash. Just like the 6 million Hollowco$t.
    There is not even a trace of godliness in these chosen ones. Even WWI and WWII were all about creation of Israel. These folks need relocation back to Eastern Europe–not middle east

    • Agree: Carroll Price
  130. @Dave Pinsen

    I notice that–for the second time now–you quietly ignored my main point: What Palestinians choose to call themselves is irrelevant; the theft of their land by the zio-state remains theft. I will assume you are tacitly conceding my point.

  131. Interesting story, as well puts the lie to those bigots who make out every Israeli to be some rabid cretin of Zionism & ‘Greater Israel’ for the fact this excellent piece is posted up by a magazine founded by Israelis:

    Airbnb, it has come to our attention, enables anyone to rent rooms and vacation homes in Israeli settlements in the West Bank. Anyone who is not of Palestinian descent, of course.

    Without exception, the listings, some which appear to be luxurious cottages and others that are caravans sitting on barren hilltops, make no mention of the fact that they are in settlements on occupied land. Almost all claim to be in Israel, despite the fact that they lie beyond the country’s borders.

    Exploring the Airbnb website turns up dozens of cheap rooms and homes with pastoral views and many just a short drive from Jerusalem — all pretty enticing. Especially if nobody tells you that you’re paying to be a settler few days…

    Read more:

    • Replies: @RobinG
    , @RobinG
    , @Carroll Price
  132. RobinG says:
    @Ronald Thomas West

    Forgot to say, protest is at CIA, Langley, VA.

    • Replies: @Ronald Thomas West
  133. @RobinG

    You’re not a very generous spirit RobinG. Some of the most revealing and accurate anti-Zionist literature comes out of Israel… I suggest Eyal Weizman:

    “For refugees, camps were shelters for the reconstruction of personal and social life, but were also seen as sites of great political significance, the material testimony of what was destroyed and ‘all that remains’ of more than four hundred cities, towns and villages forcefully cleansed throughout Palestine in the Nakba of 1947-9. This is the reason refugees sometimes refer to the destruction of camps as ‘the destruction of destruction.’ The camp is not a home, it is a temporary arrangement, and its destruction is but the last iteration in an ongoing process of destruction.

    “This rhetoric of double negation – the negation of negation – tallies well with what Saree Makdisi, talking about the Israeli refusal to acknowledge the Nakba, has termed ‘the denial of denial’, which is, he says, ‘a form of foreclosure that produces the inability – the absolutely honest, sincere incapacity – to acknowledge that denial and erasure have themselves been erased in turn and purged from consciousness.’ What has been denied is continuously repeated: Israel keeps on inflicting destruction on refugees and keeps on denying that a wrong has been done”

    Eyal Weizman: ‘The Least Of All Possible Evils’ (Humanitarian Violence From Arendt To Gaza)

    In fact you [RobinG] come across as just another narcissist hate-monger –

    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @RobinG
  134. @Ronald Thomas West

    You gotta admit, that when it comes to making a fast buck, the Chosen Few are in a class all their own. Always have been, always will be…

  135. @bjondo

    the land that the arabs live on is controlled by the zionized west

    Mauritania, Western Sahara, Morocco, Algeria, and Sudan are controlled by “the Zionized West”?

  136. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Ronald Thomas West

    Some of the most revealing and accurate anti-Zionist literature comes out of Israel

    not to mention an example of sublime respect for womanhood

    the semi-automatic tower mounted guns on the Israeli Palestinian border are manned solely by women.

  137. RobinG says:
    @Ronald Thomas West

    Eyal Weizman wouldn’t have written this – wouldn’t have needed to write this – or his book, Hollow Land: Israel’s Architecture of Occupation, if he were not the exception that proves the rule.

    Certainly there are some admirably honest Israeli’s, but they are few and far between. Men like Miko Peled, Ilan Pappe, Gilad Atzmon and Gideon Levy are verbally attacked and sometimes physically threatened by their countrymen. Weizman lives in Britain. Levy lives in Israel, under constant death threats. He will be here to address this year’s conference,
    ISRAEL’S INFLUENCE: Good or Bad for America?
    Washington, DC – March 18, 2016 at the National Press Club

    • Replies: @Ronald Thomas West
  138. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Oh my, good luck with that, with JEWS controlling the whole F-ing Legal System and the IRS.

  139. Svigor says:

    Interesting story, as well puts the lie to those bigots who make out every Israeli to be some rabid cretin of Zionism & ‘Greater Israel’ for the fact this excellent piece is posted up by a magazine founded by Israelis

    Ever the brave “leftist,” I see. Bash Christians, boost Jews.

    You’re not a very generous spirit RobinG. Some of the most revealing and accurate anti-Zionist literature comes out of Israel… I suggest Eyal Weizman

    Your bravery and compassion are astonishing. No one ever says anything nice about the rich, powerful, Jews. No one ever dares to criticize the touchy, vengeful, Christians.

  140. Anonymous • Disclaimer says: • Website
    @Ronald Thomas West

    “Genesis 12:3 — God promised to bless those who bless Abraham and his descendants,”

    At last check, Abraham’s first born was Ishmael (whose descendants are the Arabs) and his second was Isaac (whose descendants are the Jews).

    Where did God say he was blessing the Jews only?

    • Replies: @Carroll Price
  141. @RobinG

    “if he were not the exception that proves the rule”

    You seem to like passively discrediting some of the most important players. For instance the group of Israeli veterans “Breaking the Silence” @

    Did it ever occur to you that, when waving your signs outside the CIA headquarters, inside they are drinking toasts to Gene Sharp?

    The folks at Langley love it, when you’re burning up your time with events the wholly agency owned msm won’t cover, as opposed to the tedious work of raising awareness –

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  142. @Anonymous

    Where did God say he was blessing the Jews only?

    As all Fundamentalist know, it comes from de Bible! To be exact, from it the Schofield Reference Bible. Wherein Cyrus Schofield, by adding foot-notes and explanations gleaned from Zionist founder, Samuel Untermeyer, placed Jews in their current position of “the chosen” who can do no wrong in the eyes of glassy-eyed, dispensationalist Christians.

  143. @Ronald Thomas West

    1. CIA also gave Irving Kristol the initial support that made his magazine and movement viable.

    2. CIA is funding Palo Alto tech firms to continue the work of spying on the American people — as well as the people of the ROW. One such firm was founded by a Frankfurt school groupie disciple of Habermas who laments that his public position makes it difficult for him to indulge his sex travels in Berlin. What could possibly go wrong?

    3. In “The Worth of War,” Benjamin Ginsberg reveals that non-violence is actually the planned, intentional precursor to war. Having first garnered the support of a strong friend, a weak party engages in non-violence with the goal of provoking the adversary to over-responding, whereupon the Strong Friend will step in and vanquish the Over Respondent, which is the outcome that was desired all along. Notice that the original, weak party does not necessarily achieve satisfaction of his complaint. Ginsberg cited the example of the use of non-violence by Martin Luther King, and the example of the British guarantees to Poland might also be mentioned.

    4. Sharps’s tactics are the framework for the color revolutions that have caused so much turmoil and bloodshed in several parts of the world

    Wikipedia entry for Sharp notes that: “The Iranian government charged protesters against alleged fraud in the 2009 elections with following Gene Sharp’s tactics. The Tehran Times reported: “According to the indictment, a number of the accused confessed that the post-election unrest was preplanned and the plan was following the timetable of the velvet revolution to the extent that over 100 stages of the 198 steps of Gene Sharp were implemented in the foiled velvet revolution.”[33]”

    Damn those Iranians! They refused to be provoked.

    Was the beheading of Nimr executed with a Sharp axe?

  144. @SolontoCroesus

    Since I’d posted up Bramhall’s article at Scribd (which has gotten more hits today than in the entire 2-1/2 years since I’d posted it), the classic ‘Sharp’ example is Ukraine. People might be interested to check out the comment I left at:

    Or here is the direct link to the information Robert Parry DOES NOT include in his (above linked) cover narrative or ‘information operation’ (as the case may be)

    This is on top of the five billion Nuland bragged to Chevron & Exxon-Mobile had been spent to bring events to a head, funneled through the organizations (NGOs) Bramhall names.

    Nothing quite like the CIA operations sector training snipers in Poland to insert into the Maidan with complicity of the presently USA supported Kiev regime, eh? But you never see the ‘alternative journalism’ narrative go there, despite it has been attested to by 1) a conservative Polish Member of the European Parliament and 2) bolstered by a leaked (intercepted) phone call between then EU Foreign Minister Ashton and the Estonian Foreign Minister.

  145. @SolontoCroesus

    ps, Dr Bramhall’s article I’d linked (the Scribd document) was a few years old. Here it is again with repaired hyperlinks in the references, as well, my appended update (Ukraine) and conclusion:


  146. alexander says:

    Dear Mr Giraldi( Phil ),

    I have always been a believer in free market capitalism….

    When it comes to the buying and selling of property, anywhere in the world, if there is a seller and there is a buyer…and there is an agreed upon purchase price, there should be no reason why a transaction can not move forward. This seems part and parcel of the free market system I grew up in.

    But what happens in the case of Palestine ? What happens in the case of the West Bank and Gaza? Do transactions of this sort, the buying and selling of property, still go forward in a legitimate fashion when a state or a territory is under occupation ?

    How does a military occupation effect the legitimacy of “real property” transactions ?
    Can any who are occupied militarily, make the same decisions they would, to buy and sell land, if they weren’t occupied ?

    Where does the freedom in free market capitalism, begin and end for an occupied people ?
    How many choices can they make, free from the duress of their occupation ?

    If a Palestinian farmer chooses to sell his sixty acres of land, North of Hebron to a wealthy Israeli business man, even at a price beyond what he would normally ask, how much of the decision that he makes is tempered by the occupation ?

    Is it possible to know?

    If Palestine were “free”, if it were a state of its own, with its own infrastructure, borders, constitution, and appropriate government entities…then I imagine any transaction of that nature could occur free of the coercive and extortionist pressure that a military occupation would engender ?

    There may have been many land exchanges dating back to 1967,within the OPT ,that seemed to carry all the ear marks of a free market transaction, but can any have “real” legitimacy in the case where the seller isn’t really “free” ?

    Its interesting to think in just how “many” ways a military occupation “muddies the waters” of most forms of day to day Life, let alone land transactions, in the OPT.

    And very sad, that after all these years, one would still have to.

  147. RobinG says:

    ************* R.I.P. – ALAN RICKMAN

    Alan Rickman Made A Difference
    from WRMEA, The Washington Report on Middle East Affairs

    British actor Alan Rickman died Jan. 14, 2016, at age 69, after a battle with cancer. Many of his fans remember him for his roles playing villains like Professor Snape in the “Harry Potter” movies, the Sheriff of Nottingham in “Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves,” and numerous other romantic or shifty roles in film, TV or onstage. Rickman also edited and directed the 2005 play titled, “My Name Is Rachel Corrie,” based on the life and death of the 23-year-old American student who was crushed to death in Gaza by an Israeli soldier driving a U.S.-made Caterpillar bulldozer. Wearing a bright orange fluorescent vest, and carrying only a megaphone, Corrie was trying to protect a pharmacist’s home from being demolished.

    Rickman’s important work was mentioned in only a few articles, including Salon’s “Remembering Alan Rickman’s Pro-Palestinian Play About American Activist Rachel Corrie”: “Rickman had not only a legendary film and theater résumé, but also a firm commitment to progressive politics, and support for Palestinian rights in particular.”

    In one of two Washington Post obituaries published Jan. 15, Adam Bernstein devoted three paragraphs at the end of his half-page article to the controversy surrounding the New York Theatre Workshop’s planned 2006 production of “My Name Is Rachel Corrie,” and its decision to “indefinitely delay” the show’s first U.S. performance over concerns of boycotts and protests.

    When the play finally opened in 2006, at New York’s Greenwich Village Minetta Lane Theatre, it was a triumph. Other performances of “My Name is Rachel Corrie,” including its original London debut, have been covered by the Washington Report over the years (See Activist Resources Section).

    In Katharine Viner’s article, “Alan Rickman: the most loyal, playful and generous of friends”, also published yesterday, in Britain’s The Guardian, Viner recalls her first meeting with Rickman. “It was March 2003 when Alan turned up at London’s Royal Court theatre, clutching an edition of the Guardian’s G2 section featuring the powerful last emails of Rachel Corrie, the American activist killed by a bulldozer in Gaza. Alan had recognized that Rachel’s voice could work brilliantly on stage, and I was commissioned to help him turn her words into a play.” Viner also recalls, “When asked recently about his proudest Royal Court moment, his answer was not about him: he said it was when he took Rachel Corrie’s parents outside the front of the theatre to show them their late daughter’s name in neon lights.”

    Alan Rickman leaves his fans and fellow activists heartbroken by his early death. Along with Rachel Corrie, whose life and death he sought to immortalize, Rickman shows us that doing the right thing—working for truth, justice and freedom for all— may be risky, but it is profoundly satisfying. One person can make a huge difference in the world.

    • Replies: @alexander
  148. alexander says:

    I had no idea Alan Rickman, was involved in the cause for Justice in Palestine, Robin, and I had no idea he directed “My Name is Rachel Corrie”….either.

    I thought it was “verboten” to speak out for human rights for Palestinians, and continue to be a Hollywood actor.

    I thought you had to make a choice.

    But speaking of Rachel Corrie, what about getting Geo to add her folks names to the roster of potential speakers…for the march ?…..

    They are very fine , thoughtful, people…and it seems they have agreed to carry Rachel’s torch of justice forward.

    I am sure they would make fine additions.

    I am sure Rachel would be at the march ….if she could be..

    I am sure she would be happy if her folks spoke up, in her stead.

    • Replies: @geokat62
    , @RobinG
  149. geokat62 says:

    But speaking of Rachel Corrie, what about getting Geo to add her folks names to the roster of potential speakers…for the march ?

    You read my mind, Alexander.

    I think inviting the Corrie’s to speak is an excellent idea.

    And thanks to Robin for posting the previous comment.

    • Replies: @RobinG
  150. RobinG says:

    This is an interesting question as regards our focus. Maybe I’m just not aware, but I’ve only known the Corrie’s to be defenders of Palestinian human rights. Of course they know, first hand, that the US backs Israel. But are they really informed about the Lobby? Are we straying into SJW territory? (I’m not saying that’s necessarily wrong, just something to think about.)

    Also, the Corrie’s recently came out on a surprising side (opposite to my own) on a controversy. I’m sorry, I’m not positive, but I’m pretty sure it was when Alison Weir was “excommunicated” by JVP and the US Campaign, etc., and the Corrie’s were in favor of that because Weir had spoken on an ‘anti-semitic’ radio show. There was quite a split over this, and I believe the Corrie’s went against Weir.

    Now, maybe this would be an opportunity for reconciliation, but perhaps the bigger question is whether you want to continue on the emotional/sympathetic path, or pursue the deceit and betrayal of America by Israel’s 5th column – or some of both. (I would argue that for those who think they have a soul, it’s not in their self interest to have murder and mayhem committed in their name. Are we going to include such ‘religious’ overtones?) Just thinking out loud here.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  151. geokat62 says:

    … I’m pretty sure it was when Alison Weir was “excommunicated” by JVP and the US Campaign, etc., and the Corrie’s were in favor of that because Weir had spoken on an ‘anti-semitic’ radio show.

    I was aware of the excommunication of Alison Weir (as she wrote a blog about it not too long ago here at UR), but I had no idea the Corrie’s had sided against her. With this information in hand, I would say that it should be up to AW to decide whether she feels comfortable with RC’s parents being added to the speakers list.

    … but perhaps the bigger question is whether you want to continue on the emotional/sympathetic path, or pursue the deceit and betrayal of America by Israel’s 5th column – or some of both.

    As long as we try and adhere as much as possible to the two principles Phil laid out for us in his previous comments, I’m ok with “some of both”:

    1. Our central theme has to be the terrible damage that Israel and its lobby have done to our country and our liberties, citing the Liberty and its coverup as a prime example of the corruption that the “special relationship” has engendered…

    2. What is needed is feisty, some serious confrontation with the Israel-Jewish-Christian Zionist groups accusing them directly of the treasonous activity that they are engaged in.

    • Replies: @RobinG
  152. RobinG says:


    Grant Smith is the force behind the (anti-) Israel Lobby conference. March 18, 2016, will be the third annual. The roster of speakers is a goldmine. All their talks are online.

    Grant Smith: A brief history of Israeli foreign agent, smuggling & spy cases.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  153. RobinG says:

    March 7, 2014

    Here are links to all speakers at the first conference. I recommend watching all. (There is also a transcript version.) When I saw these 2 years ago, there was only one that I didn’t find riveting.

    All the above speakers could be added to Geo’s list (below) as potential for June 8, 2017, event —

    1. Phillip Giraldi of CNI
    2. Alison Weir of CNI
    3. Congressman Paul Findley of CNI
    4. Profs. Mearsheimer & Walt
    5. Phillip Weiss of Mondoweiss
    6. Justin Raimondo of
    7. Sibel Edmonds of Boiling Frogs
    8. Ray McGovern, former CIA Analyst
    9. Robert Parry of Consortium News
    10. Roger Waters of Pink Floyd

  154. geokat62 says:

    Grant Smith is the force behind the (anti-) Israel Lobby conference…

    Thanks for sharing, Robin. I’ve seen Grant Smith before hosting other related conferences. I think he would be the ideal person to MC our “Liberty from the Lobby” campaign. I also think that Gideon Levy should also be considered as a potential keynote speaker.

    Also really looking forward to “meeting at some central location at some point to exchange ideas,” as Phil has suggested.

    • Replies: @RobinG
    , @alexander
  155. RobinG says:

    Here’s Gideon Levy’s speech at last year’s conference. He calls for ONE STATE.

    Gideon Levy: Does unconditional support for Israel endanger Israeli voices?

    • Replies: @geokat62
    , @alexander
  156. alexander says:


    I think its shaping up nicely…..

    .It’s fascinating to think about our Congressmen and Senators today…the exquisite pressuring they must endure to facilitate these catastrophic policy decisions….and “catastrophic” they are:

    Nearly “SIXTY MILLION” REFUGEES from war torn areas primarily in the Middle East and North Africa regions -UN Refugee Agency.June 18, 2015

    US NATIONAL DEBT: year 2000-5.74 trillion ….., TODAY :18.84 TRILLION….

    OVER THIRTEEN TRILLION DOLLARS in OVERSPENDING under the LOBBY’S direction of Congress over the last 15 years

    Richest 1% will control MORE wealth than the remaining 99% by 2016-CNN….

    “What’s going on ?”- Marvin Gaye

    I think having people who have concrete experience, like MJ Rosenberg, in the inner workings of the lobby and are willing to “pull back the curtain” on those dynamics will be really important to include in “the march”.

    it would be great to get “statistical”information on how many US Billionaires who underwrite the “illegal settlement enterprise” in the OPT are ALSO integral in precipitating the catastrophic, criminal middle east conflicts …and their over arching “clean break” strategy.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  157. geokat62 says:

    He calls for ONE STATE.

    Thanks for sharing Robin. After viewing this video, I can honestly say that Gideon Levy should receive top billing in our “Liberty from the Lobby” campaign. What a man! If there is such a thing as a true humanitarian, this guy is it. He does more than call for a one state, however. He does a terrific job exposing the underlying values (victimization, chosen people, and the systematic dehumanization of the Palestinians) that enables the Israelis to live in peace with the occupation. And he also explains that for real change to happen, it must come from the international community, especially the US and the EU.

  158. geokat62 says:

    “What’s going on?”- Marvin Gaye

    Great suggestions, alexander.

    btw – I think the above-noted song should be played before and after the guest speakers address the audience… it’s one of my favourites in terms of promoting political awareness.

    • Replies: @alexander
    , @RobinG
  159. alexander says:

    I think one state that is a true democracy that represents all its citizens equally…would be outstanding..

    But given the demographics, (as we have discussed before), would favor a Palestinian “majority” in the single larger state….I think it would ‘extinguish” the notion of Israel as a sovereign state for the Jewish people .

    Why is that so bad ?

    Its not bad for me…I couldn’t care…I am an American….what binds all Americans is our “constitution”, our bill of rights…and the sovereignty of the” individual.”… not our “ethnicity’s”…No?

    But I think its understood or perceived as bad for Israel, because of the idea that Jews can no longer control their own destiny…as a people..and as a nation….and….. in a Post-Holocaust world, they have a point.

    Does that make sense ?

  160. alexander says:

    Could not agree more, Geo.

    I think having the music that underscores the reality of what is really going on…will empower the march…and give it that consolidating unify the marchers in their drive to demand from their elected officials…..significant change…..if, in nothing more, than addressing, squarely, the wanton criminality of our policies…and an overdue accounting…for the fraud that has enabled them !

  161. RobinG says:

    Geo, you’ve hit 2 sensitive nerves: MONEY and LOGISTICS. What is your vision?

    Are you seeing a million people on the national mall? Do you see jumbotrons set up, or at least loudspeakers, so those people can actually hear the speakers, or the music? Are those speakers on a stage?.

    Quite frankly, that’s not what I see, unless something bizarre happens between now and then. BTW, when I mentioned that only one man had brought a million to the mall, I wasn’t referring to Obama at his inauguration. I meant Louis Farrakhan, who obviously has a built-in education/information/fundraising network. The size and quality of what happens on Jun.8, 2017, depends on what happens between now and then. That means a lot of education and motivation, by whatever means.

    Here is the video of Gareth Porter’s talk last spring —

    Gareth Porter: The push for war on Iran.

    • Replies: @geokat62
    , @alexander
  162. geokat62 says:

    Geo, you’ve hit 2 sensitive nerves: MONEY and LOGISTICS. What is your vision?

    As the saying goes, Robin… the bigger, the better. That’s why I like S2C’s recommendation that we recruit Sam Shama to help us come up with some creative fundraising ideas.

    “Let’s go big, or let’s stay home”… that’s my vision, Robin.

  163. alexander says:

    I would not be surprised if we could find some excellent musicians willing to perform, for free,during the march, …..I think we may be surprised, Robin, at how many more people, than we think there are…..really care about these issues….and want to do something about it.

    • Replies: @RobinG
  164. RobinG says:

    Would You Believe…………………….
    Louis Farrakhan Agrees With Donald Trump on Refugees

  165. klxgvgjxxc says: • Website

    Suing the Israeli Settlers, by Philip Giraldi – The Unz Review

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