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Purging the Palestinians
The British try out a new version of free speech
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Political purges are not new. Trotsky was purged from the Soviet Communist Party and Ernst Rohm was purged by the Nazis. Currently we are witnessing the spectacle of “progressive” groups ostensibly dedicated to the cause of Palestinian rights turning on long time advocates of that cause because they are not viewed as sufficiently engaged in demonstrating that they are not anti-Semitic. Indeed, demonstrating one’s anti-anti-Semitic credentials seems to have become a sine qua non for establishing the bona fides of any friend of Palestine, apparently more important than actually doing anything for the Palestinians, who have been losing land continuously to the Israelis and regularly getting killed whenever they resist.

That the Palestinians have been victimized by the self-designated Jewish State funded by Jewish organizations and enabled through Jewish manipulation of America’s legislature and media would appear to be an irrelevancy to the self-righteous standard bearers adhering staunchly to what they choose to describe as their “anti-racist principles.” In a recent disagreeable incident involving the Students for Justice in Palestine at Stanford University a Nakba survivor Palestinian woman speaker was actually disinvited because it was feared that she might verbally challenge the legitimacy of the Zionist occupation of her former home. One wonders if the students would have censored an anti-Apartheid speaker from South Africa in a similar fashion in the 1980s?

I have sometimes noted how the Zionist conspiracy is international in nature, with hate crime legislation strictly enforced in places like France to sanction any criticism of Israel, which has been conveniently and incorrectly conflated with anti-Semitism. The latest focal point for making any critique of the Zionist enterprise unacceptable is Britain, and more particularly in the Labour Party, which once upon a time was viewed as the most progressive of the country’s three major parties. It also has long included Jewish Britons in senior party and government positions and is home to two formidable pressure groups, the Labour Friends of Israel and the Jewish Labour Movement.

Some recent Labour Party history is required. In September 2015 Jeremy Corbyn was elected leader of the parliamentary Labour Party to replace Ed Milliband. Corbyn, who has a long history as a human rights advocate and anti-interventionist in his foreign policy views, was considered a long shot when he began his leadership campaign but eventually won with nearly 60% of the vote due to “anti-establishment” fervor similar to what is taking place in the United States currently. Along the way, his campaign was assailed by a number of Jewish organizations in Britain based on allegations that he was hostile to Israel.

Corbyn had indeed been outspoken on Middle East policy as a member of the Palestine Solidarity Campaign, condemning the Israeli handling of the conflict in Gaza and denouncing what he describes as apartheid in Israel. He has supported a selective boycott of Israel and believes that weapons sales to it should be blocked. Asked on by an interviewer in July 2015 why he had referred to both Hamas and Hezbollah as “friends”, Corbyn replied, “I use it in a collective way, saying our friends are prepared to talk. Does it mean I agree with Hamas and what it does? No. Does it mean I agree with Hezbollah and what they do? No. What it means is that I think to bring about a peace process, you have to talk to people with whom you may profoundly disagree … There is not going to be a peace process unless there is talks involving Israel, Hezbollah and Hamas and I think everyone knows that.”

Corbyn also supported the lifting of sanctions as part of a negotiated agreement to dismantle the Iranian nuclear program, and the initiation of steps to place Israel’s nuclear arsenal under Non-Proliferation controls. Though one would think that the statements were pretty mild stuff relatively speaking, Corbyn continues to be assailed as being tolerant of anti-Semitism within the Labour Party as a consequence.

Observers in Britain believe that much of the behind the scenes anti-Corbyn agitation within the Party is being orchestrated by former Prime Minister Tony Blair, who wants to see Corbyn replaced by someone closer to his brand of political centrism. One longtime Blair supporter and major Labour donor David Abrahams apparently agrees, ending his financial support of the party over its alleged anti-Semitism, declaring it “a plague that has to be stamped out.”

Britain is going to the polls on Thursday in local and municipal elections. It is perhaps no coincidence that the attacks on Labour have intensified in the past several weeks and polls are now suggested that the Party might well lose “hundreds” of local government seats at least in part due to the apparent turmoil reflected in media coverage of the anti-Semitism issue.

The wave of attacks on Labour members deemed to be too hostile to Israel actually began in August 2015 with widely publicized but later discredited claims that the Oxford University Labour Club was dominated by anti-Semites. As it turned out, Alex Chalmers, the student who made the allegations, was a member of Britain’s Israel lobby. Currently it is being fueled by appearances in the national media by Israel’s Ambassador Mark Regev and also by former associates of Tony Blair who are demanding a thorough review of possible anti-Semitism within the party. They have focused on two Labour notables, Naz Shah and Ken Livingstone, “Red” Ken, who have been suspended over comments and social media postings relating to Israel.

Naz Shah, a member of Parliament, reportedly made a Facebook post before she was elected to office that copied a graphic of Israel superimposed on to a map of the United States with the message “Solution for Israel-Palestine Conflict – Relocate Israel into United States” with the additional notation by Shah “Problem Solved,” a joke intended to demonstrate that if the U.S. and Israel love each other so much they should collocate, solving the Middle East conflict as a consequence. The graphic was copied from American professor Norman Finkelstein’s blog.

Shah has apologized four times for her transgression.

Ken Livingstone reportedly told the BBC that Adolph Hitler had supported Zionism in that he negotiated with German Zionists to transfer Europe’s Jews to Palestine in the event of a German Army defeat of the British in the Middle East, a victory that never materialized. Livingstone, well known for inserting his foot in his mouth, was, in fact correct in his comment, which he later declared as “historical” in nature. Under attack, Livingstone defended himself by declaring that the truth about Hitler and Zionism is “not taught in Israeli schools.”

Corbyn and other members of the Labour Shadow Cabinet have repeatedly stated that any party member who makes anti-Semitic or racist comments will be expelled. He has responded to the demands in the media and from within the party by initiating an official inquiry into possible racism headed by Shami Chakrabarti, a highly regarded former head of a civil rights charity called Liberty.

The disturbing aspect of the current purge underway in Britain is not only about racism, if that is indeed how one should define anti-Semitism. It is over the extent to which one can criticize the state of Israel without suffering consequences and also over the degree to which any such criticism should or can be equated with anti-Semitism. It is in the interest of Israel and its supports to make the two issues one and the same and they have had considerable success in making the distinction between the two largely invisible. Corbyn’s comments on the Middle East are decidedly progressive but not necessarily wrong. Naz Shah played with a graphic on Facebook expressing her views, which were not genocidal or racist, in a silly fashion that most Facebook users have likely emulated at one time or another. Ken Livingstone has a history of shooting from the lip and turning him into a whipping boy for an ill-advised comment that had no racist overtones or that did not in any way call for violence is more than a bit of overreach. None of the three attacked Jews either as an ethnicity or as a religion but they were criticized as if they had done so.

Critics of Israel in the United States, possibly to include the Stanford University Students for Justice in Palestine, should learn from what happens in Europe. Once you start your critique with an apology lest you offend someone you have already lost the argument. Refusing to listen to speakers who just might upset part of the audience is self-censorship, designed to go along to get along and in the end it is self-defeating. If you want to tie yourself in knots over avoiding the anti-Semitism label, which is routinely used to silence and destroy critics including yourself, you will never see a country called Palestine or a United States that is free from the manipulation by the Israel Lobby.

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  1. What I disapprove of is free speech being compromised by professional anti-semite hunters, and the Israeli lobby’s hijacking of US foreign policy. That’s the real issue. The Israel/Palestinian conflict is one of many ethnic land disputes.

    I do not care if the Israelis are ‘stealing’ Palestinian land, or if the Arabs stole Kurd lands, or if Kurds are softly ethnically cleansing Kirkuk of Arabs. I have no intention of sticking up for Muslims who ended the Christian domination of Levant and Asia minor.

    The title deed to land has been the rifle barrel. Deal with it. Once everybody has organized themselves into homogenous geographic units, they eventually decide there’s more to be gained from trade then conquest, or more precisely, the gains from peace are outweighed by the gains of conquest. Israel still has more to gain from conquest. Yippee skip for them. But why the West should bleed money and treasure to help them do it escapes my grasp.

    • Agree: iffen, woodNfish, Marcus
    • Replies: @bunga
    , @Max Payne
  2. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Anyone heard anything about this:

    California Holocaust Denial Speech Restrictions Initiative

  3. “Shami Chakrabarti, a highly regarded… ”

    Highly regarded by the Left media. Normal people loathe her.

    • Replies: @Rehmat
  4. geokat62 says:

    If you want to tie yourself in knots over avoiding the anti-Semitism label, which is routinely used to silence and destroy critics including yourself, you will never see a country called Palestine or a United States that is free from the manipulation by the Israel Lobby.

    So, stickman, do you think Giraldi is guilty of “pulling his punches” in this article?

  5. Rehmat says:
    @Simon in London

    Calm down Moshe. To counter Chakrabarti’s ‘anti-Israel loathing’, the Labour Jesus Corbyn has appointed professor David Feldman, who believes the European Jews had the birth-right to occupy a foreign land because they were hated in their ancestral western lands.

    • Replies: @Polar Bear
  6. Rehmat says:

    The so-called “Freedom of Speech” in Britain like most of Europe’s Zionist-occupied nation is based on antisemitic label – the Organized Jewry has to judge who should be allowed to say what.

    Since Jeremy Corbyn, who had confessed to have maybe 2% of Jewish blood, became the leader of UK’s Labour Party – 50 prominent members of the party have been kicked out for telling the truth about Israel, Holocaust and the Jewish power.

    The latest victims of Jewish Lobby witch-hunt are MP Naz Shah and former London Mayor Ken Livingstone. Incidently, both had sponsored Corby for the party leadership.

    British Jewish Chronicle, country’s top Israeli propaganda website, reported on January 26, 2015 that a panel of European Jewish leaders headed by Israeli professor Yoram Dinstein (Tel Aviv University) and backed by several former EU head of states and governments have proposed that any criticism of Jews, Israel or Holocaust should be banned by the 28-member European Union being an old-fashioned antiemitism.

  7. Mark Green says: • Website

    Well said, Phillip. But you spend a bit more time wrestling with the loaded concept of anti-Semitism than necessary. It’s a very manipulative term, managed by the other side.

    Besides, ‘anti-Semitism’ (disliking or mistrusting Jews) is not a criminal offence–nor should it be. In fact, it should be applauded. After all, look what they’re up to. It’s criminal. What’s worse, Americans have been trained see Israel as our ‘Best Friend’. Is this a terrible joke–or a bad dream?

    The concept of anti-Semitism’ must be brought down to earth. It should be re-named. ‘Anti-semitism’ merely involves mistrust or aversion or hatred. These are all common emotions. Yet the other side has injected all sorts of myths and distorted imagery around this subject. ‘Anti-Semitic theory’ would have us believe that a well-earned disdain for Jewish conduct is indicative of a some kind of moral defect. This is absurd as well as dishonest.

    Therefore, the spotlight must remain on Israeli cruelty and aggression over there, as well as Zionist espionage here. Israel is an a supremacist state with its own agenda. Our arranged marriage with the Jewish state is an orchestrated fraud.

    As for ‘anti-Semitism’, the very charge is a strategic distraction. It should be rejected outright. Let’s not allow our adversaries change the subject, which must remain Israel’s pernicious influence and bad conduct.

    Also, it’s sometimes necessary to keep obvious truths in mind, such as this: contempt for Zionism does not equal genocide.

    Contempt is contempt. Mass murder is mass murder. To conflate the two is not only fallacious, it’s libelous. But this is what the pro-Zionist brigade is attempting to do.

    In order to exercise Free Speech (that’s critical of Israel) one must prove first that he/she is not ‘anti-Semitic’. This restriction totally empowers our adversaries. Jewish supremacists routinely demand special privileges and an uneven playing field. This is Jewish supremacism. It must be identified for what it is and rejected categorically.

    • Agree: SolontoCroesus, Rurik
  8. Yes, they know how to fix things nicely to make things go their way. What I don’t understand is why some of these public figures who’ve been branded with the toxic anti-Sem label don’t hire some Jew lawyers and start a civil action for defamation. It can be done, and can be successful.

  9. @Mark Green

    Great words Mark.
    It would appear that Jews equate themselves with criminal activity, and when you condemn the crimes, you are condemning Jews.

    • Replies: @RaceRealist88
  10. iffen says:

    Does anyone besides me see a problem with Israel Lobby rather than Israel lobby?

    • Replies: @ISmellBagels
  11. biz says:

    First of all, very few people are actually pro-Palestinian. You can see this with the fact that ISIS is currently ethnically cleansing Palestinians from Yarmouk, Syria and none of the people who can be counted on to oppose Israel have anything to say about it.

    So if one is honest, anti-Israel opinions have nothing to do with Palestinians and everything to do with Jews. The people who are posting antisemitic comments to this article are at least honest about that, and thus I have far more respect for that them I do for people who hide their Jew-obsession behind a faux concern for the Arabs who have recently called themselves Palestinians.

    So let’s be honest and not label anti-Israel speech as having anything to do with “Palestinians.”

    Once we’ve done that we can evaluate if the anti-Israel opinions in question are antisemitic and/or just plain stupid, and yes, most anti-Israel speech is thus. That doesn’t mean it should be illegal, but people should not try to claim they didn’t say it when they did.

  12. @Anonymous

    It’s for the children, don’t you know?

  13. iffen says:

    the self-designated Jewish State

    All nation states are self-designated.

    I have sometimes noted how the Zionist conspiracy is international in nature,

    That a conspiracy exists has not been established.

    In any case the speculation here is not firmly connected to the rest of the sentence which is something that can be established or debated based on the facts.

    with hate crime legislation strictly enforced in places like France to sanction any criticism of Israel, which has been conveniently and incorrectly conflated with anti-Semitism.

    • Replies: @ISmellBagels
  14. @biz

    And you shouldn’t try to claim you are not a racist, bloodthirsty shill for Israhell and its crimes. Many Americans are disgusted with the rot a zio-controlled government has as a large side effect, and the killing of innocent poor people that your tribe are stealing from and abusing with our official support.

    • Replies: @biz
  15. @iffen

    the self-designated Jewish State

    “All nation states are self-designated.”

    Only Israel is self-designated by race. Imagine how you yids would be throwing a hissy fit at the US designating itself the Anglo State.

  16. @iffen

    You Israhellers are always finding “problems” without seeing your biggest one: YOURSELVES.

  17. Wally [AKA "BobbyBeGood"] says: • Website

    Only lies need the protection of government, truth can stand on it’s own.

    – Thomas Jefferson

    Why is free speech on the absurd & impossible ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ illegal in Europe & Israel? And why are efforts for the same ban on free speech being made in the US?

    Because the ‘holocaust’ storyline cannot withstand scrutiny, simple.

    The ‘holocaust’ storyline is an impossible & quite laughable fraud. It is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived.
    Realize that and the machinations of violent Zionist supremacism are greatly diminished. Just think about how that scam is used.

    Nothing changes until then.

    The ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    see the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here:
    No name calling, level playing field debate here:

  18. schmenz says:

    This whole “antisemitism” nonsense is kind of funny. In my (Catholic) upbringing “antisemitism” is defined as hatred of Semitic people simply because of their race, a concept which is to be rejected. At the same time, however, bad behavior of Semitic peoples can and rightly should be criticized.

    Therefore, when certain Semitic peoples such as Jews were committing terrible crimes, as in Palestine, criticizing or condemning those crimes was considered the right thing to do. And, yes, I am aware that the current regime in the Vatican has long since lost that right thinking on the matter and, like their Biblical antecedents, are fleeing “for fear of the Jews”.

    The other ironic thing about this antisemitism charade is that the Palestinians are themselves Semitic peoples. Ergo, the Israelis who oppress them are genuine antisemites.

  19. Rehmat says:

    Catholic Jesuit priest Daniel Berrigan (died April 30, 2016) earned his Antisemitism Award in 1973 after his speech at a meeting of the Association of Arab University Graduates in Washington in 1973 where he made a prophetic statement about the Zionist entity that had become a criminal Jewish community and, alongside South Africa under apartheid and the US embroiled in Vietnam.

    “The state is a Jewish settlers colony seeking Biblical justification to ethnic-cleansing and occupation of a non-Jewish land – a crime against humanity,” he said. He lamented that Jews after suffering discrimination for centuries in Europe and experiencing Holocaust during WWII, became oppressors themselves.

    Rev. Berrigan defended his statement on the Zionist entity against a vicious campaign run by Jewish lobby groups demanding an apology to Israel and Jews.

  20. DaveE says:

    “If you want to tie yourself in knots over avoiding the anti-Semitism label…….. you will never see a country called Palestine or a United States that is free from the manipulation by the Israel Lobby.”

    Exactly. Real truth-tellers are not afraid of liars. Real patriots are not afraid of traitors. Real freedom-fighters are not afraid of cowards.

    Wear the “anti-semite” badge proudly. There couldn’t be higher compliment, albeit extremely misleading and inaccurate.

    Anti-Jew is more accurate, but I’ll settle for anti-Semite, regardless.

  21. @Anonymous

    Amusing how Armenians and Ukrainians were included; reminiscent of how W’s neocon handlers included North Korea in his “axis of evil”. Can’t give the game away.

  22. @Mark Green

    The term “anti-semite” is only used to control discourse. It’s also followed by “muh holocaust, oy vey he’s an anti-semite planning anuda shoah!”

    That’s mostly all it is. The Eternal Jew knows he can’t win without controlling the discourse and shutting down any and all opposition.

  23. @ISmellBagels

    They are forever victims.

    It vuz real in zer mind goy!

    • Replies: @Wally
  24. @ISmellBagels

    The Tribe™ wouldn’t allow that. Aka those Jews who have inserted themselves into our governments.

  25. MLK says:

    I would say that your failure to even mention BDS was an insult to your readers’s intelligence, but judging by most of your commenters you’re safe on that score.

    Oldsters like you are wholly part of the problem. You and the rest of the adults need to stop bothering the college kids. It’s probably going to take a generation for young people to reacquaint themselves with their collective interest in free speech.

  26. iffen says:

    You stake out the “honest” position for yourself and leave those who might disagree on the dishonest side; this is against the rules. I consider myself “honest” (I only lie if I have to) and I don’t agree with some of your assertions.

    One could be anti-Israel and that could spring primarily from being Palestinian or simply of sympathy for the Palestinians or for some other reason. What some of us are trying to understand is when this concern for the Palestinians is “genuine” and when does it spring primarily from anti-Semitism.

    The options for anti-Israel opinion are not restricted to anti-Semitism or stupid. That criticism of Israel is not sufficient evidence of anti-Semitism seems to be one of the points of the article.

    • Replies: @biz
    , @Mark Green
  27. @biz

    ISIS is a Mossad-CIA mercenary army. At any rate, there’s a big distinction between things that happen in wartime as opposed to things that are a regular matter of policy. US imperialism against the Muslim world should be vigorously opposed, but that doesn’t change the nature of Israeli disposition of the Palestinians. A simple point: Israel will be treated like other countries when it starts acting like other countries.

  28. Wally [AKA "BobbyBeGood"] says: • Website

    It’s clear that ‘holocaust’ revisionism is breaking out everywhere, it’s about time this hate crime against white Gentiles is exposed for the scam that it is.

    The parade of stupid “survivor” tall tales is endless.
    You’ll like these:

    survivor” was Saved by a Keyhole / and more like it

    And how can there be countless ‘extermination camp survivors’ when Jews claim that ‘the Germans tried to kill every Jew they could got their hands on’?

    Follow the money.

  29. @Wally

    You are completely delusional.

  30. Joe Walker says: • Website

    Once we’ve done that we can evaluate if the anti-Israel opinions in question are antisemitic and/or just plain stupid, and yes, most anti-Israel speech is thus

    Please stop trying to pass off your own opinions as facts.

  31. alexander says:

    Dear Phil,

    It would sure help a lot, if Israel presented a well articulated “peace plan” that engaged all the outstanding issues of its conflict…namely “borders”, “Right of Return(for Palestinians)”, ” “East Jerusalem”, and the “settlements” (in both the West Bank and Golan Heights).

    Not having ANY peace plan,at all, and continuing to build, at a feverish pace,illegal settlements in the Palestinian territories….is not a strong indicator Israel stands for a just resolution to its conflict(s) …or peace.

    I wish it did…..but its doesn’t.

    Why the (19 trillion in debt) U.S. is going to pony up a yearly donation to Israel of 4.5 billion, when it has no ” plan for peace” ,whatsoever, makes very little sense .

    Does it make sense to you ?

    Israel needs a “peace plan” , and it needs one….. fast.

    • Replies: @Art
    , @alexander
    , @DaveE
    , @Anonymous
  32. biz says:

    Yes, nothing communicates genuine concern for “Palestinians” quite like the user name “ISmellBagels.”

  33. Sam Shama says:

    For a more nuanced version of the Livingstone matter , do also read Toby Lichtig in the Times literary blog [rather than just the Independent]:

  34. Wally [AKA "BobbyBeGood"] says: • Website
    @Andrew E. Mathis

    Ah yes, you again. Hilarious.

    Anyway, onward we go.

    You cannot prove your delusional, utterly impossible, and quite laughable ‘gas chambers’.

    Everyone should read:

    ‘Cyanide Chemistry at Auschwitz’

    Next, everyone must see that the ‘6M Jews’ scam was brewing since 1869:
    discussion here:
    ‘The Six Million, Six Million Times / beginning in 1869’

    • Replies: @Andrew E. Mathis
  35. biz says:

    The options for anti-Israel opinion are not restricted to anti-Semitism or stupid.

    No they are not, but the overlap in that Vann Diagram is enormous. Most anti-Israel rhetoric is so divorced from reality as to be in the realm of stupid, and / or motivated by antisemitism. Usually and.

    Some examples are:
    – “Israel consists of European / White people oppressing Indigenous Brown people”
    Fact: The majority of Israeli Jews trace their ancestry to the Arab and Moslem world from which they were ethnically cleansed after 1948. Meanwhile “Palestinians” only started calling themselves that in the 1970s. Before that they proudly touted that they were the descendents of conquerors from the Arabian peninsula.

    – “Israel is carrying out a genocide.”
    Fact: The “Palestinians” have one of the highest rates of population increase in the world.

    – “Israel only survives because of eleventy bijillion dollars from the United States.”
    Fact: US aid to Israel is 3 billion dollars annually, every penny of which must be sent back to the US to purcahse US manufactured equipment. This \$3 billion represents less than 2 percent of Israel’s GDP. In the full scale wars in 1948, 1967, and 1973 Israel stood alone and still won.

    – Israel is responsible for 9/11″ etc.
    Fact: Obviously false, but a staple of supposedly “pro-Palestinian” opinions.

    – “Israel practices Apartheid.”
    Fact: Israeli Arabs, Druze, Circassians, and other minorities shop in the same stores, swim at the same beaches, get treated at the same hospitals, vote in the same elections, and receive the same welfare benefits as Jews.

    – “Ashkenazi Jews are Khazars / not descended from ancient Jews etc.”
    Fact: DNA and historical evidence have shut the door on these theories for at least a decade.

    etc on down the list. All stupid and divorced from reality.

    • Agree: Clyde
  36. Mark Green says: • Website

    Like most humane people, my sympathy for the Palestinians emanates from a multiplicty of ideas, observations and values. Due to the dangerous levels of Zionist influence in the Western world, I also identify with the Palestinian people. They are under siege. As are we.

    Who doesn’t hate to see powerless and innocent people mistreated for decades?

    Who doesn’t hate to see their nation’s resources and reputation wasted on faraway ventures that are devoted to racial conquest, ethnic cleansing and needless subjugation?

    Who doesn’t hate to witness a cabal of powerful people advance their exclusivist, ethic agenda upon America and the world?

    Do you?

    Uncompromising, Zionist expansion is a global scourge. The Zionist project has not only killed or harmed millions in the Arab world, but US citizens as well.

    Zionist censorship and taxation in America diminishes freedom here as surely as it degrades our nation’s reputation. And it has squandered trillions.

    Zionism has caused vast suffering. And it continues now.

    Just consider the US wars in the Middle East that were orchestrated in large part by Zionists (Iraq, Libya, Syria). These pro-Zionist projects elevate a ruthless collection of already-powerful, racial supremacists. Have they no compassion?

    When will their rapacious appetites be satisfied?

    Hand-wringing about ‘anti-Semitism’ is a perverse, self-destructive sideshow. People are dying at the hands of these so-called victims. Action is required.

    If these conclusions make me an anti-Semite, then I wear the badge proudly.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @iffen
    , @biz
  37. @Andrew E. Mathis

    Then provide evidence that disputes his conclusions.

    • Replies: @Andrew E. Mathis
  38. @Chris Mallory

    Provide evidence for what, exactly? Be specific. Ask for me to prove something specific to you, and I’ll be happy to do it.

    • Replies: @Chris Mallory
  39. Art says:

    Israel needs a “peace plan” , and it needs one….. fast.

    NOT going to happen.

    Who is fool enough to think that Israel wants peace?

    Zionism is Israel – Israel is Zionism – Israel and Zionist are the same thing.

    Every Jew who supports Israel is a fascist killer, because that is what Zionist Israel is – a stone cold fascist state. There is no in-between.

    That is the stark reality.

  40. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says: • Website

    “Nakba survivor”

    That’s going too far. As tragic as Nakba was, it didn’t have a high body count like the ‘Armenian genocide’ and the expulsion of Ost-Germans. And there was no attempt to mass-kill Palestinians. So ‘Nakba victim’ is probably a better term.

    Even the term ‘Holocaust Survivor’ has become overblown. I would say someone who was sent to the camps or was in hot war zones as a Jew or a specially targeted victim of the Nazis could be called ‘Holocaust Survivor’.
    But that term now applies to just about ANY JEW in regions occupied by Nazis. Sure, some of them faced hard times and some had to go into hiding. But to call them ‘Holocaust Survivors’ is a stretch.

    Maybe they can be called Occupation Survivors. But the term ‘Holocaust Survivor’ stirs up images of someone who survived the horrible conditions where the actual killings were happening. It’s like calling every Japanese a ‘Hiroshima Survivor’.

  41. @biz

    US aid to Israel is 3 billion dollars annually. This \$3 billion represents less than 2 percent of Israel’s GDP.

    They are trying to get this increased to \$4.5 billion. But since it is so little, Israel shouldn’t mind if we cut it off and started spending it on American citizens. And how about we end the yearly bribe we are paying to Egypt on Israel’s behalf.

    In the full scale war…1973 Israel stood alone and still won.

    Which completely ignores the 22,395 tons of matériel shipped to Israel during Operation Nickel Grass. The U.S. Air Force shipped 22,325 tons of tanks, artillery, ammunition, and supplies in C-141 Starlifter and C-5 Galaxy transport aircraft between October 14 and November 14, 1973.

    This mistake by the Nixon Administration directly lead to the oil embargo and severe economic distress in the United States.

    It is well past time the US brought all it’s troops home from the Middle East. Nothing in the Middle East is worth one drop of American blood or one ounce of American gold. Let Israel stand or fall without the American tax payer.

    Ah, the 1967 war, if we had had a President who wasn’t an Israeli stooge, Tel Aviv would have been leveled after the murder of the sailors on the USS Liberty.

    • Replies: @Andrew E. Mathis
    , @Marcus
  42. @Andrew E. Mathis

    YOU said he was delusional, tell us what his delusions are and provide evidence to back up your claims. It is pretty simple.

    • Replies: @Andrew E. Mathis
  43. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says: • Website

    “I have sometimes noted how the Zionist conspiracy is international in nature, with hate crime legislation strictly enforced in places like France to sanction any criticism of Israel, which has been conveniently and incorrectly conflated with anti-Semitism.”

    There is also an element of Imperialism of Guilt. If the French feel guilty about what happened to the Jews during the German Occupation, okay.
    But that is French Guilt. Why should French push their own guilt on non-Frenchmen who have a different history with Jews?
    There was a time when the French forced Catholicism and Croissants on non-whites. Now, they force their own Official Guilt on other people whose history is entirely different from that of the French. Why should French War Guilt that is particular to French history and people be forced on non-French?

    Imagine if there are three peoples. A, B, and C. Suppose people A did wrong to people B, and people B did wrong to people C.

    So, people A feels guilt in relation to people B. In contrast, people C feel anger at people B.
    But suppose people A have power over people C and force them to share in the guilt about people B even though people C didn’t harm people B but, if anything, were harmed by people B.

    Globalism spreads the Imperialism of Guilt of the West, especially in relation to Jews and blacks. Because white people have this special guilt about Jews and blacks, it’s like everyone else has to favor that guilt narrative and even share in the guilt.

    That said, some Muslims in Europe go too far and even praise the Nazis. It’s funny since Nazis would have despised them too. Also, Muslims are now themselves imperialists since they are barging into Europe and acting like conquerors.

    “Corbyn had indeed been outspoken on Middle East policy as a member of the Palestine Solidarity Campaign, condemning the Israeli handling of the conflict in Gaza and denouncing what he describes as apartheid in Israel. He has supported a selective boycott of Israel and believes that weapons sales to it should be blocked.”

    It’s good that Corbyn cares about the suffering of Palestinians in Gaza and West Bank. He seems to believe that Palestinians have a right to their own land. But then, why doesn’t Corbyn stand up for UK and for white Britons to defend their own land? He wants to reduce White Britons to the status of Palestinians in the West Bank. He is tarded. He is for nonstop migration into UK that will turn UK into something like North Africa.

    Maybe his real grip about Israel is it’s not cucked out like the EU. He wants not only globalist demise of the white race but of the Jewish race as well. He wants the entire world to be some borderless mulatto utopia. What a humorless and bloodless nut.

  44. alexander says:

    Dear Phil,

    If I might follow up,

    Having a very copious and well thought out ” plan for peace”…would ensure all the world powers that Israel is NOT the antagonist in the conflict.

    If Israel has, and presents a “peace plan” to the world….then everyone can be sure that Israel is NOT trying to “confuse” the world, who the terrorists are,(and are not) in their “battle”.

    If I may reiterate the point in the obverse…..If you have NO plan for peace…AT can the other guy, who does (accept the plan for peace) be “the terrorist” in the equation ?

    How is it possible, Phil, logically( or any way) for the other guy to be “the terrorist”, if it is “you” (and not he) who wishes to perpetuate the conflict ?

    Looking for an answer (?)

    • Replies: @Wally
  45. bunga says:

    your subtle racism and anti Muslims verbiage devoid of historical facts are no substitute for declining numbers of faith based Christian in EU and US/Canada or Australia .

    Get some from Kenya and Philippines who will read Bible and wave the flag of Constantine . He was even promised that he would win following the symbol of the God ,something of a fish in the cloud that also reads like X.

  46. Wally says: • Website
    @Mark Green

    Israel has representation in the US Govt, but no taxation.
    In fact the Zionist parasites grab billion upon billions of taxpayer money every year.

    Not to mention:

    The Costs to American Taxpayers of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict: \$3 Trillion\$3-trillion.html

    and little details like:

    ‘Jewish groups get up to 97% of grants from the Homeland Security’

    every US taxpayers ‘loan’ that “that shitty little country” has received has never been paid back. The Israeli Occupied Congress curiously “forgives/forgave” all these huge debts.

    Let’s not mention the vast sums they receive from ‘Homeland Security’ to do much of the spying.

    “Jame Bamford of Wired subsequently reported that the NSA had hired secretive contractors with extensive ties to Israeli intelligence to establish 10 to 20 wiretapping rooms at key telecommunication points throughout the country.”

    “Two Secretive Israeli Companies Reportedly Bugged The US Telecommunications Grid For The NSA”

    “IDF Unit 8200 Cyberwar Veterans Developed NSA Snooping Technology”

    Of course, auditing the Federal Reserve is being resisted tooth & nail by Zionist interests. Why?

    and then:
    “There’s no business like Shoah business.”

    any thought or person that a Jew doesn’t like

  47. Wally says: • Website

    And ‘shitty little Israel’ refuses to state what they believe their official boundaries to be.


    Because any official boundary designation would be troublesome for them since they plan on seizing more & more land.

  48. @Chris Mallory

    His claim that Holocaust denial is gaining ground is baseless. He’s hoping to generate a bandwagon effect for his sad little website. Irving failed more than a decade ago, and he was their best shot. The rest are knuckle draggers with degrees from Google University and poorly concealed swastika armbands. They haven’t fooled anyone.

    • Replies: @Wally
  49. @Chris Mallory

    I agree with most of your post with two exceptions. First, I don’t think LBJ was a stooge; I think he had his hands full with Vietnam and a key Soviet ally at war with a friendly neutral (Egypt and Israel, respectively). Second, the Arab oil embargo hurt everyone, not just the U.S., and most importantly the countries instituting the embargo itself. We opened the Alaska pipeline and quite literally flooded the petroleum market, rendering their oil superfluous, at least in the short term. Why do you think Islamic fundamentalism cropped up in the late 1970s? Yes, the Soviets in Afghanistan played a role, but so did shitty economic conditions that Arab and Persian dictators helped to create.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @utu
  50. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says: • Website

    Actually, this map answers a lot of questions.

    If indeed Israel had to be created as a response to the Holocaust, it would have made more sense to create Israel in the US, Canada, or Australia.

    Those big nations have plenty of spaces. After all, Jewish elites say those countries must be open to more and more immigration until their numbers reach close to billion.

    Also, if Jews needed security after what happened in WWII, it would have been safer for them to live in a nation surrounded by white Christians who defeated the Nazis than by Muslims who were gonna get PISSED for Zionist taking over of holy Muslim lands.

    Also, if the Holocaust defined Jewish mentality after WWII, surely one of the lessons should have been “‘since Jews were victimized, they should not victimize others.”

    Upon close scrutiny, Holocaust as excuse for Israel being located in Palestine makes no sense. Jewish victims ended up victimizing another innocent people. Jews built a homeland in a very dangerous area and came to be surrounded by hostile nations. If the whole point of having a Jewish homeland was safety and security, one could find a worse place than Palestine.

    Also, if Germans were most to blame for the Holocaust, a piece of Germany should have been given to Jews. Why not? A big part of Germany was given to Polacks.
    Why make Palestinians pay for what Germans did?
    Suppose Chinese feel guilt about what they did Tibetans and decided to make amends by conquering Arizona and giving to the Tibetans. And if Arizonans resist, suppose the Chinese accuse them of anti-Tibetism. Ridiculous.

    So, the satirical map above makes perfect sense IF the whole point of Israel was security for Jews. Also, if Americans, Canadians, and etc. cared so much for Jews, why were they so stingy and didn’t offer a piece of their own territory for Jews? Why did they do Jews a favor by helping Jews rob the territory from an innocent people?

    Another reason why the Holocaust Excuse fails is because Israel was formed AFTER WWII when Nazi Germany totally went down in defeat. If Israel was created DURING the Holocaust, it might have more of a justification as a haven for fleeing Jews.
    But Jews had no reason to flee Europe after WWII. And indeed, most Jews who remained in Europe returned to their civilian lives and did pretty good.

    So, it is time to do away with this Holocaust-justified-Israel BS.

    Holocaust was used as excuse for the creation of Israel, but it wasn’t the main reason for why Jews wanted the homeland there.
    Jews wanted Palestine-as-Israel because of historical and spiritual significance. In cultural terms, it is the most valuable piece of property in the world. It has great mythic value. Even secular Jews steeped in history could see how much that land meant to Jews.
    And even though Jews have been away for so long and Nakba led to a great tragedy, it is true enough that the ONLY REASON why that land has such significance is because of Jewish history and religion and experience. Without the Jewish narrative, it would be no more special than any other piece of land.
    And indeed, THAT is the ONLY decent justification for Jewish takeover, recovery, reconquest, or etc and fulfillment of the return to the Promised Land.

    So, why won’t Jews admit it? If all Jews lived in Israel, maybe Jews will admit it.
    But so much of Jewish power, wealth, and influence reside in gentile nations where Jews are nervous or neurotic minorities.
    If Jews were to proudly proclaim the greatness of nationalism, racial identity, territoriality, majority rule, and unity as having done wonders for Jews in Israel, it would imply that such themes are good for gentile majority nations as well(like Hungary that says NO to the mass invasion).
    This is what Jews don’t want because gentile unity and majority rule may challenge Jewish power in US, EU, Canada, and Australia. For Israel, it’s homogeneity, unity, and majority power are strengths. In gentile nation, it is diversity and fragmentation that are touted as strengths when, in fact, they undermine majority power and allow Jewish minority elites to play off goy against goy. Look what happened to white/GOP power in California. Only a dumbass white would have agree that diversity has done wonders for whites in CA.

    This is the Jewish Quandary. The very reasons why they really support Israel(the source of Jewish Power in Israel) is what they fear most among gentile majorities where Jewish power has become prevalent, even predominant. Paradoxically, what Jews fear most is gentiles in their own majority nations acting more like Jews in Israel. In Israel, Jews control everything: media, banks, schools, entertainment, government, military, and etc. Jews believe it should be that way… for Jews in Israel. But if gentiles in gentile nations thought likewise, they would emphasize the need for themselves to control all the levers of power. But Jews happen to control many of those levers in the West and don’t want to let them go. Jews fear that the main challenge to their power will come from gentile unity and nationalism. That is why Jews love a poodle like Blair and Merkel but hate men like Orban and Putin who, while not anti-Jewish, believe their own nations should reflect the history, identity, and values of the majority population in the nationalist sense.

    So, Jews have invoked the Holocaust as justification for Israel, but upon closer moral, historical, and political scrutiny, it makes no sense at all.

    If indeed Jews needed a safe homeland after the Holocaust, they could not have found a worse place than Palestine.

    It’s about time Jews came to their senses. Even if white gentiles were to close their national borders and emphasize their identity and culture, they are not going to turn anti-Jewish. They learned too many hard lessons from WWI and WWII. And successful Jews are not gonna be targeted for confiscation. If anything, white people overwhelmingly consider Jews as fellow whites. So, all this Jewish paranoia about whites is just gonna drive everyone nuts in the long run.
    Also, this Holocaust thing has turned into some kind of morally narcissistic cult. So many Jews feel this need to feel holier-than-thou in relation to it, and so, they keep finding new alliances with so-called ‘victim groups’. This just get sillier and sillier. You’d think denying the ‘right’ of some guy in a dress to use the women’s washroom is like new Nazism. Morality is turning into a farce.

    Also, it is about time the West admitted its role in Nakba. It needs to admit that an innocent people, the Pallies, were made to bear the cross for the horrors committed by whites. One might even say that Zionism was a kind of Crusade with Christian West using Jews as proxy. Christian Right seems to feel this way.
    Given what the Pallies lost, there has to be some major compensation in favored economic treaties and aid. And Palestinians have to be given something substantive in remaining territory. And that means the West Bank.

    And the world will recognize Israel as Jewish Homeland not on the basis of the Holocaust but on the basis of History, Heritage, and Sacred Myth.
    Next, such themes should be deemed human/racial rights for ALL peoples, i.e. the world recognizes that Israel is holy land to Jews, but it also recognizes Japan as holy to the Japanese, Germany to the Germans, Hungary to the Hungarians, etc. What is good enough for Jews in Israel should be good enough for any people who own their own nation. Right of Reverence. If Israel especially belongs to the Jews, who are Jews to say that Hungary doesn’t especially belong to Hungarians or Russia belongs especially to Russians?

    All Jews in the West Bank must go back to Israel. That way, there will be no more ethnic tension in the West Bank as it will be all Palestinians.
    And to make Israel stable, all the Arabs there should be pushed to West Bank. That way, Israel will be all Jewish and West Bank will be all Palestinian. Two-state solution is workable ONLY IF it leads to two homogeneous states.

    This plan, to be called the Dominique Plan, is the only one that will work. Everything else will make things worse.

    PS. If the world says NO to the Plan, then at the very least, the US(that is most responsible for aiding and abetting the creation of Israel) should give Palestinians a piece of America(equal to size of Israel/West Bank) to develop as their special homeland. If Palestinians were kicked off their land like American Indians, give them a reservation in America. (Indeed, the Jewish support for mass migration of Muslims to Europe seems to be along these lines.)

    • Replies: @utu
  51. Wally [AKA "BobbyBeGood"] says: • Website
    @Andrew E. Mathis

    And all that name calling coming from an unhinged racist Zionist is nothing short desperation.

    “All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.”.
    Arthur Schopenhauer

    It’s you who is in denial. Look at the growing numbers of comments at this site which indicates a growing awareness of the impossible ‘6M Jews, 5M other, & gas chambers’ scam.

    here’s more debunking of the impossible:
    Holocaust Handbooks & Documentaries
    Presented by Castle Hill Publishers and CODOH

    ISSN 1529-7748 (books) & 2059-3872 (documentaries)
    Groundbreaking Research Books on the Biggest Taboo of the Western World

    From the book by Revisionist Jew, Gerard Menuhin, the son of the famed Jewish violinist Yehuda Menuhin:

    Copyright 2015 by GERARD MENUHIN and THE BARNES REVIEW
    Published by:
    THE BARNES REVIEW, P.O. Box 15877, Washington, D.C. 20003
    available at:

    quotes from .pdf version, pagination may be slightly different:
    “Those ultimately responsible for this hopeless situation have succeeded in their conspiracy: they have created, with the aid of “holocaust” professionals and propaganda, the necessary climate of guilt whereby never-ending legal as well as illegal immigration goes unchallenged, resulting in a fractured society, civil unrest and inadequate social funds. The desired massive debt is therefore programmed. Jewish influence has achieved the dissolution of a once cohesive community.”

    “Alone the fact that one may not question the Jewish “holocaust” and that Jewish pressure has inflicted laws on democratic societies to prevent questions—while incessant promotion and indoctrination of the same averredly incontestable ‘holocaust’ occur—gives the game away. It proves that it must be a lie. Why else would one not be allowed to question it? Because it might offend the “survivors”? Because it “dishonors the dead”? Hardly sufficient reason to outlaw discussion. No, because the exposure of this leading lie might precipitate questions about so many other lies and cause the whole ramshackle fabrication to crumble.”

    “Jewish huckstering is most obviously apparent in its frenzied compulsion to uphold the “holocaust” myth, whose exposure would not only refute the Jews’ claim to Palestine and to endless financial reparations and atonement for harm not done to them, it would also deliver Jews and their minions to the fury of a world deceived and victimized for centuries by their lies and conspiracies.”

    also see:
    ‘quotes from Gerard Menuhin: Revisionist Jew, Son of Famous Violinist’

  52. iffen says:
    @Mark Green

    Like most humane people,

    Just like I told biz and others, you can’t claim the humane or honest positions without contest. I consider myself as humane as the next human and I don’t share your views.

    my sympathy for the Palestinians emanates from a multiplicity of ideas, observations and values.

    I see enemy of my enemy rather than a multiplicity.

  53. Wally [AKA "BobbyBeGood"] says: • Website
    @Andrew E. Mathis

    Now you suck-up to Chris Mallory who previously shot you down.


    • Replies: @Andrew E. Mathis
  54. @Wally

    He shot me down how? Be specific. Provide examples.

    Sorry, I forgot that debating isn’t your strong suit.

  55. @Wally

    Keep panicking.

    • Replies: @Wally
  56. biz says:
    @Mark Green

    To the extent that you have any actual sympathy for the Arabs who have recently called themselves “Palestinians” it is because you perceive their enemies to be Jews. In your last sentence you said you would wear the badge of anti-Semite proudly, so do it. Stop hiding behind faux concern for Arabs.

  57. Sorry, but this is BS.

    Anyone who claimed that relocation of the Muslim areas of Rotherham, Rochdale, and Bradford to Pakistan would amount to “problem solved” would be denounced as racist – probably by Naz Shah herself. The same logic must apply to Naz Shah’s suggestion of relocating Israel to the USA.

  58. Wally [AKA "BobbyBeGood"] says: • Website
    @Andrew E. Mathis

    Keep projecting.

    Curious how some people want ‘6M Jews’ to be dead. I don’t.

    Now here’s more for those who are catching on:

    ‘Jews created fake Jewish graves’

    and this gem:

    ‘Is 1% too much to ask?’

    This is too easy.

    The ‘holocaust’ storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that denies free speech and the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

    The tide is turning.

    • Replies: @Andrew E. Mathis
  59. DaveE says:

    Do you realize how many “peace plans” the zionists have trashed, derailed or just plain broken in the last 100 years? It must be in the thousands, by now.

    My dogs will sing the Bolivian National Anthem in Hebrew before those ^^%#^&*’s keep a promise.

  60. It was Judea before it was Palestine … Discuss!

    • Replies: @Andrew E. Mathis
  61. Blake says:

    ‘israel’ only exists as long as American support (veto/handouts/military aid) for it exists.

  62. @The Alarmist

    It was Canaan before it was Judea!

    • Replies: @Blake
  63. @Wally

    How much money do you make to run that forum, Nazi-boy?

    • Replies: @Wally
  64. Max Payne says:

    Because if the US doesn’t intervene Israel would have stopped existing (probably as early as 1973).

    The funny thing is the white man thinks by having a state just for Jews only that the Jewish people will just leave the US and go live there. They failed to realize they’ll use Israel as a dummy corporation to bleed US tax dollars like a parasite forever (not to insult parasites by comparing them to Israel).

    Shame really….

  65. @ISmellBagels

    I would be tremendously excited to find any politician of note in Ameri-Kwa today who would be willing to declare that the US is the spiritual homeland of the White race and White culture, and that our foremost duty as White men is to secure the existence of our people and a future for White children. I haven’t seen anybody hanging around the Quad willing to say such a thing in a long, long time now. Have you? Let us know if you find such a person. I might even be willing to start voting again. We can’t even find anyone willing to say that America is and always has been a White nation, of White people, by White people, and for White people, that any other guests we have allowed to come here are just that–guests–and that some of them have worn out their welcome and may need to be shown the door if their behavior toward their hosts does not improve.

    As for either Jews or sandniggers, mathematicians are still working on theory that describes a number small enough to allow me to express how little I care about either of them. Let them kill one another. I’ll make popcorn. What does it matter to us?

  66. German_reader says:

    “a Nakba survivor”

    That’s a silly term…I suppose it’s meant to be equivalent to “Holocaust survivor”. But what happened in Palestine in 1948 most certainly wasn’t genocide, it’s strange to speak of “Nakba survivors” when only a small minority of Palestinians was actually killed.

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @Max Payne
    , @Blake
  67. iffen says:

    You have to play the victim cards that you are dealt, not the ones you wish you had.

  68. Wally says: • Website
    @Andrew E. Mathis

    More desperate name calling just doesn’t cut it anymore. Haven’t you been reading this thread?

    “All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.”.
    Arthur Schopenhauer

    You mean the forum where everybody takes your redneck Zionist trash to the woodshed?



    Andrew Mathis, who also posts as ‘Thames Darwin’ demolished here:

    ‘Is 1% too much to ask?’

    ‘Himmler’s note infers Hitler knew of liquidation?’

    ‘Alleged “mass graves” according to T. Darwin / Andrew Mathis’

    ‘Andrew Mathis on Dachau, Majdanek, Auschwitz, Treblinka’

    AndrewnMathis, who also posts as ‘Thames Darwin’, gets shot down again:
    Anecdotal evidence & “holocaust survivors”

    holocaust’ denial article by Andrew Mathis debunked here’

    ‘Prof. Mc Nally dissects HHP’s Andrew Mathis’ bogus article’

    ‘Holo. Hist. Proj.’s Andrew Mathis on Zyklon scent removal’

    ‘Green, Mathis refuted / cyanide: lice, humans, & more’

    ‘Believer org. spokesman, Andrew Mathis, demolished in debate’

    ‘Holo. Hist. Proj.’s Andrew Mathis attempts damage control’

    ‘Email from Andrew Mathis (The Holocaust History Project)’

    ‘holocaust’ History Project to unveil section on Treblinka’

    The ‘holocaust’ storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that denies free speech and the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

    The tide is turning.

    • Replies: @Andrew E. Mathis
  69. @biz

    Your incredibly arrogant comment is just plain stupid. I’m for free speech, but I would happily turn a blind eye if someone would do us all a favor and ban the word “anti-Semite” from our language. It’s a worse word than even “racism” for killing honest dialogue.

  70. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Israel needs a “peace plan” , and it needs one….. fast.

    I can’t see anything the Jews could do to achieve peace other than kill them all. On balance, I think most Americans would agree that doing so is at least premature. I mean, ordinary Americans are not putting up that much of a fuss with replacing Andy Jackson with Harriet Tubman on the \$20 bill, so we are not THOSE people anymore (the ones who really, no-kidding would have killed them all were we in the place of God’s Chosen People).

    \$4.5 billion is a small price to pay to postpone such unpleasantness while to wait to see if president Trump can make a deal.

  71. @Wally

    You are truly a mental case

    • Replies: @RaceRealist88
  72. utu says:
    @Priss Factor

    Hitler toyed with the idea of Madagascar as a Jewish state. I wonder if Madagascarians celebrate the defeat of NAZIs on May 8? If not, they should!

    Hitler had no illusions about the nature of the Jewish state:

    While the Zionists try to make the rest of the World believe that the national consciousness of the Jew finds its satisfaction in the creation of a Palestinian state, the Jews again slyly dupe the dumb Goyim. It doesn’t even enter their heads to build up a Jewish state in Palestine for the purpose of living there; all they want is a central organisation for their international world swindler, endowed with its own sovereign rights and removed from the intervention of other states: a haven for convicted scoundrels and a university for budding crooks.
    It is a sign of their rising confidence and sense of security that at a time when one section is still playing the German, French-man, or Englishman, the other with open effrontery comes out as the Jewish race.” (Mein Kampf)

    • Replies: @bunga
  73. Blake says:
    @Andrew E. Mathis

    Judea was one of three divisions of ancient Palestine – other 2 being Galilee & Samaria. Encyclopaedia Britannica being my source

    • Replies: @Andrew E. Mathis
  74. utu says:
    @Andrew E. Mathis

    Why do you think Islamic fundamentalism cropped up in the late 1970s? – CIA creation!

    • Replies: @Andrew E. Mathis
  75. Max Payne says:

    Don’t worry, just like how “holocaust survivor” has been extended to mean any Jewish person who was alive during the years of 1939-1945, even if they were living comfortably in Canada or Iceland, in time that term will encompass all Palestinians of all generations.

    Word-smithing. I learned it all from Israel.

  76. @utu

    Not quite that simple. The CIA had no reason to create opposition to the Shah of Iran or, for that matter, the KSA. Moreover, the CIA funded the Mujahadeen, but it began as a genuine reaction to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.

    • Replies: @5371
  77. @Blake

    Yes, I’m aware of that, but before the rise of the Jewish commonwealth circa 1000 BC, it was called Canaan.

  78. @Andrew E. Mathis

    How is he delusional? What did he say that was incorrect?

  79. Max Payne says:

    Israel stood alone……


    Israel, caught off guard, initially reeled under the two-front attack, but Israeli counterattacks turned the tide, aided by massive amounts of U.S. military assistance….

    Jewish people are not really known for their warrior skills. That is a well-established fact. Cowardice on the other hand….

    • Replies: @biz
  80. @Andrew E. Mathis

    Ahhhhh yes. Ad hominem. My favorite! He just showed you numerous things and you have 5-word replies. Oy gevalt!!

    Guess what?

    The goyim know. More and more goyim awaken to the Jewish control of the West every day. Nothing will change to stop it.

    • Replies: @Wally
  81. Blake says:

    it’s strange to speak of “Nakba survivors” when only a small minority of Palestinians was actually killed.

    Over 30 massacres by jewish zionist terrorist gangs ethnically cleansing Palestine of their native gentiles. Creating the world’s largest/longest suffering refugee population. Most fled on foot for hundreds of miles. They are survivors!

  82. @Wally

    Damn right. My favorite are the evil Mengele stories. And how the one woman survived with just a straw for air while buried underground!! Damn, Jews are super-human too??!?!?!?

    No idea if you’ve seen these before, but oy vey!! The Jews sure are resilient!!

    Here’s one of my favorites:

    Babies torn in half, a woman jumped a ten-foot wire fence, guards nailing inmate ears to the door. Oy vey the evil Nayzees!!

  83. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says: • Website

    Lookie, even your hero David Irving admits millions of Jews were killed.

    “He says plainly that over 2 million Jews were executed.”

  84. Wally [AKA "BobbyBeGood"] says: • Website

    Bingo, redneck Zionists are losing their grip and know it. How sweet it is.

    It’s been a bad day for ‘Rejoining Ash’ and his knuckle dragging liars.

    “All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.”.
    Arthur Schopenhauer

    • Replies: @Andrew E. Mathis
  85. biz says:
    @Max Payne

    Israel got weaponry from the outside but nobody else did the fighting. It was Israel fighting alone against genocidal enemies and they won. I know you hate that it turned out that way, but it is historical fact now and you should deal with it.

  86. @Priss Factor

    No one disputes the reality of mass-killings, rather the nature and number. The sacrosanct 6M number is completely fabricated, and the gas chambers are likely apocryphal. There is no evidence of a systematic plan to exterminate the Jews of Europe. Now, German wartime policies were unquestionably cruel and directed towards Jews, but they were just that: wartime policies. Probably correct to say 1-2 M Jews were killed as a direct and indirect result of German actions. A great human tragedy, without question, but akin to what happened to the Armenians, not something that we have to morally wrangle over forever (heavens darkening and all that).

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Priss Factor
  87. @Priss Factor

    BTW, given the legal problems Irving has faced, it’s not entirely clear that his recent statements were made duress-free.

  88. Wally [AKA "BobbyBeGood"] says: • Website
    @Priss Factor

    You’ve been highly misinformed, deliberately so I suspect.
    But it is good to see you reject the nonsense about Auschwitz. It’s a good start.

    David Irving does not represent Revisionist research, he’s a straw man.
    He got out of jail early (imprisoned for Thought Crimes) and is curiously now trying to ‘rehabilitate’ himself by playing ‘holocaust’ lite.

    Serious Revisionist scholars do not take his post-imprisonment efforts seriously. It all reminds me of the absurd and impossible ‘confessions’ at Nuremberg.

    The evidence Irving claims is nothing more than a list of transports to labor camps. There is zero proof for the “two million”, zilch.

    no mass graves as alleged which should necessarily exist:

    Show me excavated, verified, with contents shown, enormous mass graves that are allegedly known. You can’t, they do not exist. Recall the alleged & impossible 900,000 Jews at Treblinka that Irving believes in, which are said to buried at that site. Nothing there or we would have seen it.
    In fact physical obstacles have been put into place to prevent any forensic excavations. Search Treblinka photos and see for yourself.

    go here and read:

    ‘Irving’s ‘holocaust’ lite / but what ‘2.4 million document’?

    ‘Irving attempts ‘rehabilitation’ via the Hoefle Telegram’

    ‘The David Irving Phenomenon’


  89. Wally [AKA "BobbyBeGood"] says: • Website
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    You’re starting to figure it out.

    Recall the sending of Japanese Americans to forced labor camps, recall the Soviet gulags for unrepentant Christians.
    Recall the fact that under Soviet communism ‘anti-semitism’ was illegal, anti-gentilism was not.

    But there is no proof that 1-2 million Jews were killed.

    If you have it then please present it.

    No throwing them a bone when it is not warranted.

    Also note that there is not a single verifiable excavated mass grave for your 1-2M that can actually be SHOWN, not just claimed, (recall the claim of 900,000 buried at Treblinka) even though Jews claim to know exactly where these allegedly enormous mass graves are.

    for more:


    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  90. iffen says:

    – “Israel practices Apartheid.”
    Fact: Israeli Arabs, Druze, Circassians, and other minorities shop in the same stores, swim at the same beaches, get treated at the same hospitals, vote in the same elections, and receive the same welfare benefits as Jews.

    Israel was established by Jews for Jews. The non-Jews in Israel are 2nd class citizens. Writing stuff like this makes you look silly.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @biz
  91. @Wally

    I’m referring to all causes of course, when the German logistics system collapsed due to Allied bombing the camp system became particularly lethal, which had nothing to do with German intent. Even Butz puts the number of Jews killed at around 1M, it seems like a realistic number given conditions of war in the East.

    • Replies: @Wally
  92. Wally says: • Website


    ‘Jews Only’ towns, ‘Jews Only’ regions, ‘Jews Only’ neighborhoods, ‘Jews Only’ streets/highways, ‘Jews Only’ shops & markets, ‘Jews Only’ swimming pools, ‘Jews Only’ buses, ‘Jews Only’ water, ‘Jews Only’ gas development of fields just off Gazan coast, ‘Jews Only’ mineral resources ….

    But don’t dare call it apartheid.

    • Replies: @biz
  93. bjondo says:
    @Priss Factor

    some deaths in the separation camps. no mass killings. irving with neck under the sword.

  94. Wally [AKA "BobbyBeGood"] says: • Website
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Yeah, I know Butz inside & out, but he is just winging it on this. There just isn’t any proof.

    1M is a huge number of people, where are the physical remains? After all, they supposedly died in known, very centralized sites which would be easy to verify, if true.
    But we see nothing.

    Here’s the LA Coliseum which holds 90,000 people. To get the ‘1M’ multiply that by say 11.2.
    So where are the human remains to excavate, see, verify?

    Come to for discussion with others in the know.


    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  95. Durruti says:

    Philip Giraldi,

    A brilliant short missive. Many Thanks.

    I, personally, am not an anti-Semite. I like Arabs. Most Jews, such as my mother’s family, are not Semites. We hail from Germany (German Jews). Much of family sport blond hair & blue eyes. Some of the blond hair is Flax, and changes to brown at an early age.

    Anti Semitism is mostly practiced by Zionist Jews, and their puppet American, British, French, and German imperialists, and their bought media, such as Hollywood. Zionists hate the peoples of the Middle East, and are busily destroying nation after nation, from the Fertile Crescent, to Africa, and dislocating their people (destroying the infrastructure and depopulating their countries), essentially driving them out of their homelands, to – anywhere else.

    I have some family – occupying Palestinian land. They would be far more human and decent, if they would return their stolen land (and goods), and return to Kings Highway (Brooklyn).

    From genocide against the people of Biblical Jericho, (every man, woman, and child was massacred – and a song was written about the deed and is sung in churches and temples throughout the world), to the genocide against the indigenous Palestinians and other neighboring Arab peoples, history bears witness to a continuum of Zionist racial and imperialist terror. Lately, this terror has been supported by and financed by the American taxpayers.

    All criticism – truth has been repressed. London’s former Mayor, Livingston, its Labor Party leader Corbyn, and France’s Dieudonné, among others, have felt the cudgel. America’s bought Traitor Congress worship their President, Netenyahoo, who received raucous standing ovations from both sides of the isle. The Rothschilds, and other lesser oligarchs, Zionist New World Order have triumphed. Those in the way, such as our last Constitutional President, John Fitzgerald Kennedy, and his government, and his supporters, such as his brother Robert Kennedy, and Martin L. King, have suffered the fate of those at Jericho, and Deir Yassin. America has never been the same – since the coup d’etat in Dallas, on November 22, 1963.

    The enemy, and their MOSSAD-CIA-MI-5, are omnipotent.

    We, the victims, are dust.

    Hope Survives Just Barely.

    For the Restoration of our Democratic Republic!


  96. @Wally

    I fully agree, if there were mass graves containing anything like the numbers claimed, the Soviets would have exhumed them and had a propaganda field day. But again, I’m referring to total deaths, not just, say, mass shootings.

  97. @biz

    RE: – “Israel only survives because of eleventy bijillion dollars from the United States.”
    Fact: US aid to Israel is 3 billion dollars annually, every penny of which must be sent back to the US to purcahse US manufactured equipment. This \$3 billion represents less than 2 percent of Israel’s GDP. In the full scale wars in 1948, 1967, and 1973 Israel stood alone and still won.”

    Actually, the amount of money that Israel get from the US is far, far greater. I have heard that it might be as much as \$20 billion or more per year..

    Among the other ways that Israel is able to bleed the American taxpayer are:

    1) Israel is given supposedly surplus US military equipment for free. It then sells these items on the international market and gets to keep the money. Some of these items are not really surplus or obsolete but are items simply diverted illegally out of current stock by supporters working in the US government. Israel has conducted a brisk trade in these item with every tin horn third world dictator in the world. China has been a particularly active buyer of such goods.

    2) Israeli companies are given preferential access to US military contracts for items ranging from high tech computer hardware and software to things as mundane as recreational items such as plastic garden sheds? They regularly swipe these contracts from American companies who are often able to produce these itmes at lower cost. Senator Diane Feinstein has always been a particularly active promoter of such preferential contracts.

    3) Israel, unlike other US aid recipients, is only obliged to spend a small percentage of the aid money it gets on American made goods. Israel is also the only country that gets its entire financial aid package in January so it can collect interest on it for the rest of the year. The aid money given to other countries is divided up and only given in monthly or quarterly allotments.

    4)Donations made to Israel by American are tax deductible which results in the loss of considerable tax revenue to the US government. Apparently even money donated to the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) by such well known Americans like Larry Ellison of Oracle Corporation (rumored to be as much as \$33 million) and Michael Dell of Dell Computer (\$1.5 million) is deductible. This is supposedly because the money is isn’t donated directly to the military but to the IDF “Foundation.” whatever that is.

    5) Because of a particularly odious piece of legislation nicknamed the “Cranston Amendment” (named after the late California senator Alan Cranston), Israel, unlike other countries, does not have to pay back large loans made to it by the US government. Nobody really knows the full amount of these “free” loans.

    Thanks in part to this continuing largess on the part of the American taxpayer, Israelis on government assistance apparently get \$6 thousand more in welfare funds annually that their similarly distressed American counterparts.

    • Replies: @utu
  98. Harbinger says:

    Israel was attacked by Palestinians and surrounding Arab nations at the time of its independence in 1948, 1967 and 1973, the intent of all of those wars to destroy Israel.

    The result of losing wars has often meant losing territory, and the relocation of the defeated people. Germany after WWII a prime example. The Arab nations which aided the new nation of Arab Palestine in 1948, then governed the remaining Palestinian areas (Egypt for Gaza, Jordan for the West Bank) then compounded this defeat by another attempt to destroy Israel in 1967.

    After losing the 1967 war, the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank should have been forced en masse to leave both areas, and the losing Arab nations allied against Israel should have provided a new home for their defeated allies. Although Jordan and Lebanon did take in many, Israel should have pressed for a complete relocation, although the West including the U.S. would have fought this. International “political correctness”.

    The result: the extended misery of both Israelis and Palestinians. The resorting of many Palestinians to acts of murderous terrorism of all kinds, plus the raising of their children to passionately hate Israel, has only served to increase this misery, and to further delegitimize any claims to statehood, or for that matter any right to remain in autonomous areas that wouldn’t even exist had Israel not agreed to their creation. The democratic election of Hamas in Gaza clearly demonstrates that the Palestinian people, not just their leadership, are still determined to violently destroy Israel.

    How is Israel supposed to respond to this? If nothing, considering the continued lethal violence against them, they have been restrained, and forced to accept an impossible status quo by the strong de facto anti-Israeli constraints imposed on them by Western nations including the U.S.

    Does one think any other nations would put up with this? Little Chechnya wanted to break away from Russia; Russia all but leveled much of the country, killing many people.

    All of the pressure against Israel, plus huge infusions of money from wealthier Arab nations and even the West, has kept the remaining Palestinians from accepting their defeated status, and either leave the remnant areas of Palestine, or live as law-abiding, non-warlike people in Israel. Thus the years of terrorist attacks on innocent Israeli civilians >>that no nation<< would tolerate – or be expected to tolerate- from murderous suicidal bus-bombings to knife attacks, to shelling from Gaza.

    Have any of you who oppose Israel so strongly even begun in the slightest to look at this from an Israeli perspective? It is noble to be concerned for any people's right to self-determination and self-governance, BUT the Palestinian people have repeatedly forfeited these rights by their warlike actions from 1948 forward.

    Try advocating for another people who should have been granted independence a long time ago: the Kurds. Watch Turkey and Iran and Syria laugh in your face. Iraq would to, if it weren't a near failed state.

  99. @Wally

    He was your very best — the only one of you guys with even a modicum of respect from other historians. And not only did he blow it, but he also recanted.

    Yeah, the tide is turning. Whatever.

    • Replies: @Wally
  100. iffen says:

    BUT the Palestinian people have repeatedly forfeited these rights by their warlike actions from 1948 forward.

    They haven’t forfeited anything by not being very good at fighting back.

  101. America has never been the same – since the coup d’etat in Dallas, on November 22, 1963.

    Your comment is highly informative, Durruti, thank you.

    You imply that zionists hate, or rather fear, being identified as Semites; I agree:

    The epigram that opens Gil Eyal’s The Disenchantment of the Orient captures this identity crisis:

    At the end of every Hebrew sentence that you utter,
    There sits an Arab, smoking his hookah.
    Even if it begun in Siberia
    Or in Hollywood with Hava Nagilah.

    I disagree with the date you post, however.
    Alison Weir’s “Against Our Better Judgment” dates zionist inroads into American political processes and culture to the Woodrow Wilson’s administration, with the work of Louis Brandeis.

    It’s tempting to push back just a bit further, to the 1910 Jekyll Island meeting where Paul Warburg set the framework for a US central bank that not long after enabled Wilson to take the USA into a war that proved hugely beneficial to the zionist cause.

    • Replies: @Durruti
  102. FLgeezer says:

    Take a look at the homepage of Computershare(DOT)com and select the INDIVIDUALS tab. Look at the stuff you’re encouraged to buy. \$3 billion a year is an obscene joke.

  103. Wally [AKA "BobbyBeGood"] says: • Website
    @Andrew E. Mathis

    Right, so much respect they had him jailed for Thought Crimes.

    I notice you cannot rebut the info. on him I posted.

    BTW, be sure to see this and have a laugh:

    ‘Alleged “mass graves” according to T. Darwin / Andrew Mathis’

    Truth is hate to those who hate the truth.

    • Replies: @Andrew E. Mathis
  104. alexander says:

    Interesting .

    Your comment:

    “The result of losing wars has often meant losing territory,and the relocation of the defeated people”.

    Actually, post WWII, fighting wars to gain territory became , and still is,… a supreme international crime…along with ethnic cleansing and genocide.

    This was in direct response to and complete rejection of the Nazi central tenet of “Lebensraum”, living space, where acquiring territory through force and war was a Nazi prime directive.

    it is now considered a heinous evil along with ethnic cleansing and genocide.

    Thank God.

    The signature transformation for which the post WWII era represents is the complete rejection, and criminal-ization of all acts of “Lebensraum” (land grabbing), or taking territory through violence and force of arms.

    The second inviolable law, One that all of Western civilization has committed to, is the law of the right of return.
    During wartime, peoples are often forced to flee their homes due to the ravages of war. Their ability to return to their homes, once their is a cessation of hostilities, is inscribed in the UN charter.

    It is a right that cannot be broken.

    The French, the Polish, the Russians and the Jews, who were forced to flee during the Nazi reign of terror, and brutal occupations of France,Poland and Russia were allowed to return to their homes once the Nazi’s were defeated and the war was over.

    Thank God for all the wonderful laws we have in place to prevent a new Reign of Nazi terror, from ever coming to pass again…. where land grabbing and ethnic cleansing of the “untermenchen “‘people, is completely forbidden.

    “Never again” to Nazi” Lebensraum”, Nazi totalitarianism, Nazi ethnic cleansing, Nazi genocide and Nazi terror.

    Wouldn’t you agree, Mr Harbinger ?

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
    , @Harbinger
  105. bjondo says:

    jews declared war in 1948 (declaring you own someone else’s land is thievery/war) and waged aggressive war in 1967. 1973 was a collusion between jews and sadat.
    if not for this collusion and the demented clown, sadat’s treachery, egypt would have continued to beat then totally defeat the shitty, coward state that depends on others for everything except lies and how to beat babies. jews best at lying and beating babies.

  106. Marcus says:
    @Chris Mallory

    Yes, it’s funny that the neokahns lionize Reagan, when he was much more even-handed to Israel than his predecessors or successors.

  107. Ben_C says:

    First of all, Israel is not a real nation. It is a fabrication and a grim relic and reminder of post WWII Colonialism that has turned into a Frankenstein’s monster of sorts…

    The political concept of “self-determination” does not apply to “a people” that are not real in the first place.

    So-called “Israel’s” behavior has become so bad that even officials of the very nations that invented it in the first place find it hard, if not impossible, to deny.

    Additionally, so-called “Israel” simply cannot have it both ways. So-called “Israel” is either brutalizing and oppressing ‘its own people’ (meaning the “Palestinians”); or so-called “Israel” needs to officially acknowledge and respect Palestine as a sovereign, territoriality contiguous, and legitimate State which certain basic “rights”–including the “right” to protect and “defend” its boarders and territorial integrity.

    There is really no way around these realities…

  108. I would like to correct some wong information I posted earlier.

    Larry Ellison of Oracle computer “only” donated \$10 million dollars to the IDF group.. Michael Dell of Del computers contributed \$1.8 million. The total raised during the “gala” was \$33 million. The name of the organization that hosted this fathering was “The Friends of the IDF”, not “The IDF Foundation.”

    Read about it here.

    Do these contribution mean that American are defacto supporting the pensions of IDF soldiers?

  109. Durruti says:

    Solanto Croesus,

    We are on the same page – so to speak. I was attempting in my missive, not to write a book. Yes, Zionism began long before World War II.

    The assassination of JFK, and the American Republic in 1963, is a Watershed Date for the definitive end (Overthrow in the First Modern Arab Spring), of the remnants of the American Republic. The overthrow was required, as the Kennedys, (acting as the elected leaders of the American people), and their supporters, attempted to defend the Constitutional Government and its institutions (from within).

    The last of the old Arab Spring – attempts, that of the CIA –Bay of Pigs– invasion of Cuba failed, because new President, Kennedy, insisted the effort was Unconstitutional, and refused to support it. JFK used the occasion as an excuse to fire Allen Dulles, the head of the CIA, and to insist on, (for the last time), the primacy of Civilian Control over that Police State Agency.

    Zionists Insist on being identified as Semites – for 2 reasons.

    1. The label helps them as they attempt to legitimize their claim to a part (or most), of the Middle East.

    2. It helps in their propaganda – in that all their critics, and opponents may be Labeled as “Anti-Semites.” It is a convenient misuse of language by Tyrannical Powers, that was referred to by George Orwell. It is a misuse of language, as the Semites are the Palestinians and other Arabs. The true anti semites, reverse the correct meaning of that term.

    The world is controlled by the Zionist Oligarchs, with only some in-family feuds allowing any resistance at all, (such the Russians in Syria, Crimea, Novorossiya, and, to a lesser degree, the Chinese Stalinists.

    The Zionist Oligarchs control all. They are omnipotent. They have successfully installed The First Worldwide Totalitarian Order. They have suborned our American Government and destroyed its freedoms. America is no longer a Sovereign Nation; the Sovereignty fell with the Republic.

    Our Rabble in Arms must rise, or the world’s humans will suffer a Dark Age, (which they are entering now).

    Our Republic is dead! Long Live our Republic!

    For the Anarchist Collective:


    • Replies: @Blake
    , @SolontoCroesus
  110. @Priss Factor

    DFS wrote:

    “He [Irving] says plainly that over 2 million Jews were executed.”

    No, Irving does not say plainly that over 2 m. Jews were executed.

    He says that documents exist that show that “loot” — fountain pens, watches, etc. — was taken from “1.24 million Jews” in camps “S, T and B” and sent to Berlin to be turned into revenue for the Reich.

    Irving says, “you don’t have to be a rocket scientist to know what S, T and B stand for, and you don’t have to be a rocket scientist to know what happened to the people in those camps.”

    One assumes Irving seeks to imply that the people in those camps were killed. That is a baseless assumption. You need a corpse to provide evidence that a person was killed.

    An accounting of items taken in no way provides evidence that people were killed.

    Irving then compounds the unwarranted claim when he says explains that the accounting for 1942 linked “1.24 m. Jews” with the listed loot, and that no number of persons was given for the listed loot for 1943, but Irving extrapolates that the same number of people must have been involved.

    I don’t know about rocket scientists, but I know that the evidence Irving offered would be insufficient to convince a parking court magistrate of your innocence.

    “Your honor, I took my wallet out of my pocket when I passed the parking meter. I should not have gotten a \$45 ticket.”

    • Replies: @Priss Factor
  111. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says: • Website

    “Show me excavated, verified, with contents shown, enormous mass graves that are allegedly known.”

    That will have to be done in Ukraine, Belarus, Lithuania, and Russia, but I’m not sure governments there wanna go there. One reason could be due to the fact that there was some degree of local collaboration. These nations cannot blame Germans without partly blaming themselves.

    Also, there might be many many graves than one big single one.

    Look. Around 3 million Poles died in WWII. Their remains all scattered and gone forever. Just because we can’t find those bodies doesn’t mean the Polacks didn’t die.

    Lots of Vietnamese died in the war. Most bodies weren’t properly buried in graves, and many were just lost and reclaimed by nature and elements. Just because we can’t find all those bodies, must assume millions of Viets didn’t die?

    Now, these numbers of the dead are all estimates. Do I believe in 6 million Jews? No. That ‘6’ number is suspect.
    Also, I’ve seen numbers of dead come down substantially about other mass killings.
    Many news accounts and books mentioned 7 to 10 million Ukrainian dead when I read that stuff in the 80s. Now, the figure is down to 3.5 million.
    Robert Conquest used to believe in very high numbers of dead in USSR. He revised them downward with release of Soviet archives.
    Even the NYT used to say 1.2 million Tibetans died under Chinese rule. I remember reading such articles. Like they say, when legend becomes fact, print the legend.

    But it makes no sense arguing with you because you believe with commitment first and fit evidence to serve your worldview. You MUST BELIEVE the holocaust didn’t happen. It’s a personality trait that some people have.
    We find this among some Jews too. They must believe that 6 million died. Yes, 6 million and not one less. Some people have this righteous personality that gets the better of reason.

    So, I’m not even arguing with reason here but with righteous zeal.
    Believing in the anti-narrative has become your religion. You eat, drink, and excrete it.

    It’s like some Japanese still won’t admit anything terrible happened at Nanking.
    It’s like some people still believe Mao was a great man.
    They just gotta believe. It’s a personality trait that some have.
    It’s like some people won’t believe evolution no matter how much evidence is provided to them.

    One thing is for sure.

    Hitler and Nazis really really hated Jews.
    They saw WWII as Germany vs Jewish-manipulated UK and US. And even though Hitler knew Stalin got rid of many Jews, communism was still seen as Jewish-Asiatic menace.
    When the war began to go badly, Hitler went especially mad and wanted to get even somehow. If he couldn’t win the war, he was gonna do maximum damage to the Jews.
    And there were plenty of Nazi killers to carry out such orders. And plenty of local collaborators in German-occupied lands to give Germans a hand. Some were angry at Jews for old historical grievances. Some suffered under communism and blamed communism on Jews.

    War turns men into beasts on all sides. But when people begin to lose, they get extra-nasty. Japanese, as war got desperate in China and Southeast Asia, became especially brutal.
    Americans firebombed entire cities and even dropped two nukes when Japan was on the ropes and pretty much totally defeated. So, if a democratic nation like the US that had already kicked Japan’s ass real bad decided to drop two nukes to wipe out huge numbers of civilians, one can imagine the mindset of Germans who were losing the war and faced with crushing defeat. They got desperate and mad with rage. This meant hell for the Jews since Nazis had an ideological justification against Jews.
    Given all these factors, Nazi mass killing of Jews doesn’t surprise me.
    If even good guys act like that, why wouldn’t the bad guys act even worse?
    If US nukes a nation on the verge of defeat, why wouldn’t Germany, faced with utter defeat, not go out of a limb and kill as many before succumbing to total collapse.
    The bloodbath intensified in Rwanda as the Hutus began to feel Tutsi pressure from neighboring Burundi.

  112. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says: • Website
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    “A great human tragedy, without question, but akin to what happened to the Armenians…”

    Intentions and ideologies do matter.
    Turks killed lots of Armenians, but that was a war atrocity borne of rage, revenge, and fear. But Turks didn’t see Armenians as subhuman. War just turns all sides into beasts. US acted terribly in the US-Filipino War. And Filos acted plenty crazy too.
    War is ugly.

    But there was something extra about the Nazis. They had an ideology of extermination and enslavement. And we can’t separate this from what happened. So, regardless of how many died, the killings weren’t like other mass killings. There was something extra-sinister about it because the violence was fueled not only by war rage but racial ideology, a very false one at that.

    Same goes for the Great Famine. So many people died in big famines all throughout history. But the Ukraine famine was deliberately created by Stalin as a war on a certain ‘class’ called kulaks. That made it especially sinister. It wasn’t like Irish dying because potatoes went bad in a nation where even ice cream is made of taters.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  113. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says: • Website

    “You need a corpse to provide evidence that a person was killed.”

    In crime investigation, yes.

    In history, no. History is about estimates. We know there was a war. We know Nazi carried out extermination policies in occupied areas in the East. Not just against Jews, btw.
    We can’t find every body. We can only go with educated guesses and estimates.

    I mean we will never know how many died in the Killing Fields. There are some skulls and bones and such stuff. But most were lost to the elements.

    And we can’t find every body that died in the Great Leap Forward. We can only make an educated guess.

    That’s how history works. The idea of finding every body is nuts.

    Take firebombings of cities. Many bodies are completely gone in the fire.
    If we add up only the found bodies, it will be much lower than the actual number of dead.

    • Replies: @Wally
  114. utu says:
    @silly billy

    It must be way over \$100 billions since 1949
    Clyde R. Mark Foreign Affairs, Defense, and Trade Division
    Order Code IB85066
    CRS Issue Brief for Congress Received through the CRS Web

  115. Wally [AKA "BobbyBeGood"] says: • Website
    @Priss Factor

    Excuses, excuses.

    ‘holocaust’ Revisionism is gone overnight if the alleged enormous mass graves could be shown.
    Imagine the boost to Zionism if they could be shown.

    And the alleged events against Poles are not said to have happened in very centralized sites where the exact locations are supposedly known. The claimed cause of deaths do not generally defy laws of science a la the absurd ‘holocau\$t’. BTW, the 3M Poles is laughable ‘give us more money’ propaganda. I challenge you to back that up with proof.

    There are cemeteries all over Vietnam. Killings were done in very scattered non-centralized locations and no one claims 900,000 in one location (like Jews do for Treblinka, 34,000 Jews claimed for a known ravine at Babi Yar). Nothing about the deaths in Vietnam defy laws of science as does the laughable & impossible ‘holocau\$t’.

    If you think millions of Jews were murdered it is incumbent upon you, the accuser, to provide the proof. You cannot.
    Imagine in a legit court of law if someone claims enormous mass murders of millions in centralized, supposedly known locations, but then cannot produce the human remains, they would rightly be laughed out of court.

    2,000,000 Jews were allegedly shot by the Einsatzgruppen in the east into massive pits.
    So, is that:
    100 graves of 20,000?
    200 graves of 10,000?
    400 graves of 5,000?
    500 graves of 4,000?
    1000 graves of 2000?
    2000 graves of 1000?

    No mass graves as alleged, no ‘holocaust’ as alleged.
    It’s as simple as that.

  116. Blake says:

    Zionism began long before World War II.

    Yes this should interest you:

    Full text of “How Britains Biggest Racists and Financiers Created Zionism”

    • Replies: @Durruti
  117. Wally [AKA "BobbyBeGood"] says: • Website
    @Priss Factor

    More laughable desperate Zionist excuses.
    Don’t give us that crap.

    Cemeteries exist in German cities for the firebombing deaths.
    And do see pictures of corpses after the Dresden, Berlin, Hamburg, etc., etc. Allied terror bombings.

    “Finding every body”?? Oh please, that’s pure straw man. No one said “every body”.

    But out of an alleged ‘6M Jews, 5M others’ we see zilch, nada. That’s 11,000,000 !! supposedly murdered and buried in supposedly known locations and we see no verified excavations with human remains shown for even a good portion of this absurd 11,000,000.

    see ‘holocaust’ debunking videos:

    Questioning the Holocaust: Why We Believed (Part 1 of 2)

    The Treblinka Archaeology Hoax

    Holocaust, Hate Speech & Were the Germans so Stupid?

    3D Imagery Demonstrates the Auschwitz Hole Hoax

    The Majdanek Gas Chamber Myth

    Auschwitz—The Surprising Hidden Truth

  118. @Priss Factor

    FWIW I’m a little skeptical of the Polish death toll numbers as well. In fact, there is some debate over whether the 3M number should refer to Poles only or also ethnic Ukrainians (e.g. 2M and 1M). Needless to say, the Polish state (like the Russian) has its own interests in exaggerating their wartime casualties.

  119. @Wally

    You provided information about Irving? What info? You know your opinion and “information” are different things, right?

  120. @Wally

    Imagine the boost to Zionism if they could be shown.

    Why do you keep positioning your point of view against “Zionism”? What does Jewish nationalism have to do with whether the Holocaust happened or not?

  121. @Wally

    ‘holocaust’ Revisionism is gone overnight if the alleged enormous mass graves could be shown.

    You know that’s not true. If you’re shown evidence, you’ll hand wave it as insufficient to meet your standard, all the while steadfastly refusing to define in any real way what that standard is. Or you’ll claim the author of a study is “Zionist” without a shred of proof. But you won’t accept any evidence. So why ask?

    Tell you what: Go Google the Serniki mass grave and tell us all what’s insufficient about that evidence. Or Google the core sample tests at Belzec. Or GPR at Treblinka. All insufficient, I’m quite sure.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  122. @Priss Factor

    I agree Nazi racism was of a rather different character than garden-variety anti-Semitism. That doesn’t change the fact that wartime policies, however terrible, are typically driven by necessity and the Germans were confronted with a war they did not want for the most part and were ill-equipped to fight. Hence the adoption of slave labor with little regard for life against a population they reasonably expected to be a security risk anyway. Ugly stuff, but again, not really cosmic in nature. There is no evidence that there was some kind of master plan to kill Jews or Slavs.

  123. @Andrew E. Mathis

    Do you mean the sites that are under Rabbinical proscriptions against exhumation?

    • Replies: @Wally
  124. Wally [AKA "BobbyBeGood"] says: • Website

    Ah yes, I have you yet again.

    Lying Zionists claim ‘6M Jews & 5M others’ / 11,000,000 !!, yet you are left arguing about an inconsequential Serniki site & non-existent core samples.

    Why not actually dig and show the alleged 900,000 Jews at Treblinka? See below for answer.


    I Googled ‘Serniki mass graves’ and this came up first, ha!
    Yes, Revisionists cover it all.
    ‘Mass Graves / Serniki’

    Look closely, an embarrassingly fake Serniki photo, no such site like this actually exists. See it demolished at link above.
    And for your fraud at Treblinka see:

    ‘The Treblinka Archaeology Hoax’

    Note that the GPR used at Treblinka actually shows nothing at the alleged site of the 900,000 Jews. Nothing.
    You’ve been hoisted by your own petard yet again.

    And for your fraud at Belzec, please actually show these non-existent “core samples”, you cannot.
    see laughable nonexistent core samples debunked here:
    ‘Belzec: a fraudulent excavation’

    You see, the ‘holocau\$t’ scam is all smoke & mirrors, no substance.

    It merely serves the interest of racist Zionist land seizures, Zionist mass murders, Zionist ethnic cleansing. Zionist extraction of cash from US taxpayers, and the bizarre need for Jews to be at the center of everything:

    ‘Jews: the bride at every wedding, the corpse at every funeral.

  125. Wally [AKA "BobbyBeGood"] says: • Website
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Another revealing topic:

    ‘1000 year old Viking mass graves excavated, identified, etc., but no such ‘holocaust’ mass graves. Why? / +Treblinka’

    This is too easy.

    • Replies: @Andrew E. Mathis
  126. @Wally

    Serniki was excavated 15 years ago.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  127. @Wally

    Really? The Serniki grave is fake? Are you aware who commissioned that dig and why?

    I see now why you were reluctant to debate here. Mere assertions hold no truck here. You say it’s a fake? Prove it.

    • Replies: @Wally
  128. @Wally

    If you want to prove that the core samples from Belzec are fake, you’re going to have to prove it. Your mere assertions and links to your vanity website are worthless here.

  129. @Wally

    Come up with your own insults.

  130. Is there some reason why posts with links aren’t coming through?

  131. Ash and body remains mixed with sand all over Treblinka:

    • Replies: @Wally
  132. @Andrew E. Mathis

    The reality of German war crimes does not support claims of an extermination policy.

    • Replies: @Andrew E. Mathis
  133. @alexander

    Golan heist?
    With Syria in chaos, Israel makes a bold claim

    April 28, 2016

    By the Editorial Board

    Israel appears to be in the process of trying to take advantage of the current weakness of Syria to legitimize its seizure and occupation of the Golan Heights in the 1967 war.
    Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu took the occasion of an unprecedented Israeli Cabinet meeting he organized in the Golan April 17 to declare that Israel would “never” give the Syrian territory back. He called it “an integral part of the state of Israel in the new era.” The Golan was declared part of Syria in 1946 and was taken by Israeli forces in the Six-Day War of 1967.
    There have in the past been recurrent negotiations between the Israeli and Syrian governments regarding the return of the Golan to Syria. In recent years, however, Israel has established some 41 settlements in the part of the Golan it holds, resided in by an estimated 20,000 Israelis and including vineyards and a dozen or so wineries. Genie Energy Ltd. of Newark, N.J., also is looking for oil and natural gas in the Golan.
    The U.N. Security Council met April 26 and sharply rejected Israel’s claim, reminding the world of Israel’s military occupation of the Golan and illegal settlements there. The U.S. did not block the Security Council action. When Saddam Hussein’s Iraq attempted to annex Kuwait in 1990, America put together a multinational force and ejected Iraq from the neighboring state.
    There has been some suggestion on Israel’s part that its occupation of the Golan should be recognized as legal as a form of compensation for the agreement that Security Council members and Germany reached with Iran in June, trading an end to economic sanctions for Iran’s suspension of its nuclear arms program. Israel has also suggested that the annual military aid it receives from the U.S. be increased to \$5 billion from its current \$3 billion as another act of compensation for the Iran accord. Israel’s own arms exports amounted to \$5.7 billion last year.
    The current multiparty war in Syria is certainly reason for Israel to watch carefully the border of the two-thirds of the Golan it holds. At the same time, the current disorder in Syria can in no way serve as a reason to legitimize Israeli occupation there. Resolution of the ultimate fate of the Golan needs to await the end of the war in Syria.

  134. @Durruti

    Thank you for your reply.
    I agree: not all stories should hark back to Adam & Eve.

    So saying — Alistair Crooke married Patrick Armstrong’s warning that Russia is responding to US-NATO’s encroachments on Russian borders by preparing for a “big war,” with a capsule account of how central bankers precipitated the World Wars, and are conducting a similar form of financial warfare today, against Russia (and Iran, I would add).


    The point here is that the re-configuration of Russia’s armed forces underlines that Glaziev’s point that Russia is threatened by American escalation primarily in the hybrid mode is reflected amongst the Russian leadership. They would not be spending this money on re-shaping the armed forces if they did not think the threat to be serious.

    The type of financial warfare (geo-financial) to which Glaziev refers, is nothing new. Professor Carroll Quigley was formerly at Harvard, Princeton, and the school of Foreign Service at Georgetown University. He was also something of an ‘insider’, being a friend of Rockefeller, and an important influence on his one-time student, Bill Clinton (who was to become came an important patron of the financial establishment, and its wider ambitions). Quigley wrote in detail in his epic 1964book, Tragedy and Hope: A history of the world in our time (page 324), how the men –“the Anglo-American establishment” – who constructed our early monetary system:

    “had a far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control … able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled … by the central banks of the world, acting in secret agreements … Each central bank, in the hands of men like Montagu Norman of the Bank of England (and) Benjamin Strong of the New York Federal Reserve … sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world. In each country the power of the central bank rested largely on its control of credit and money supply.”

    Quigley relates that it was, for this purpose that the Federal Reserve System was established. However, the project started rockily: the then US President William Taft declined to support the banking élite’s scheme to create a central bank in the United States. Taft was duly toppled – the 1907 ‘financial crisis’ being ‘crafted’ to usher in a more favourable climate towards the establishment of an American central bank, and a more compliant President Wilson, shortly after taking office, signed the Federal Reserve Act.

    But as Quigley noted: “It must not be felt that the heads of the world’s chief central banks were themselves substantive powers in world finance. They were not. Rather they were the technicians and agents of the dominant investment bankers of their own countries, who had raised them up, and who were perfectly capable of throwing them down. The substantive financial powers of the world were in the hands of these investment bankers who remained largely behind the scenes in their own unincorporated private banks. These formed a system of international cooperation and national dominance which was more private, more powerful, and more secret than that of their agents in the central banks.”

    What is so intriguing about Quigley’s writings was his awareness, proximity and understanding of the workings of the unofficial levers of western power, and more specifically a group which evolved from what he referred to as the ‘Anglo American Establishment’ in an earlier manuscript, and which we have come now to call the American ‘deep state’ (in its wider manifestation). Quigley wrote, “I know of the operations of this network because I have studied it for twenty years, and was permitted for two years, in the early 1960s, to examine its papers and secret records. I have no aversion to it or most of its aims and have, for much of my life, been close to it and to many of its instruments.”

    Plus ça change, plus c’est la meme chose! The names may have changed – Goldman Sachs vice Rockefeller – but otherwise, the ‘system’ is still intact (just). What did change however, was the exceptionalism demanded by the US in the wake of the 9/11 World Trade Centre attacks. This effectively turbocharged the tools of geo-financial warfare. In pursuit of the eradication of ‘terrorism’, money laundering, and of the global implementation of US enacted sanctions on ‘bad actors’, America has increased its claim to legal jurisdiction to extend to virtually the entire global financial system. The imposition of secondary sanctions affecting third countries, the levying of quite arbitrary and massive fines on banks, the threat of expulsion from the global financial system, derivative based ‘runs’ on currencies (i.e. the (orchestrated) run on the rouble on 15 & 16 December 2014); plays with dollar appreciation and devaluation impacting on dollar-denominated debt held outside of the United States — in aggregate, all these measures combined had truly become more potent than conventional weaponry; more powerful, in some cases, than an army.

    Yuri Slezkine called Jews “Mercurians,” but I think of Zionists as the interstitial people: they operate in the niches and corners of larger world events, using the fogs of those larger conflicts to obscure their intentions and actions.
    Prime example:

    Golan heist? With Syria in chaos, Israel makes a bold claim
    April 28, 2016

    Israel appears to be in the process of trying to take advantage of the current weakness of Syria to legitimize its seizure and occupation of the Golan Heights in the 1967 war.

    Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu took the occasion of an unprecedented Israeli Cabinet meeting he organized in the Golan April 17 to declare that Israel would “never” give the Syrian territory back. He called it “an integral part of the state of Israel in the new era.” The Golan was declared part of Syria in 1946 and was taken by Israeli forces in the Six-Day War of 1967.

    Of course, Israel has been acting for several years in alliance with Saudi Arabs who are funding ISIS and the “surest weakness in Syria,” thus the interstitial people first create the larger conflict, the better to exploit its interstices — just as was done when zionist leaders instigated an economic war on Germany in 1933-1940.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  135. 5371 says:
    @Andrew E. Mathis

    American support for the “mujahidin” started before there was a single Soviet soldier in Afghanistan.

  136. @5371

    That’s right, it began not long after the Vietnam War ended.

  137. Durruti says:


    will take a gander.

  138. biz says:

    ‘Jews Only’ towns, ‘Jews Only’ regions, ‘Jews Only’ neighborhoods, ‘Jews Only’ streets/highways, ‘Jews Only’ shops & markets, ‘Jews Only’ swimming pools, ‘Jews Only’ buses, ‘Jews Only’ water, ‘Jews Only’ gas development of fields just off Gazan coast, ‘Jews Only’ mineral resources ….

    None of which actually exist.

  139. biz says:

    Name one way in which the non-Jewish citizens in Israel are actually second class citizens. And I mean a real factual way, not drawn from the many lies circulating about Israel.

    Do they not receive the same welfare benefits?
    Do they not receive the same medical benefits?
    Are they restricted from public facilities such as beaches, parks, etc?
    Are they restricted from stores, malls, pedestrian streets, etc?
    Are they restricted from public transportation?

    Give me something real, or take it back.

    (and no, you can’t use the army because in fact non-Jews are allowed to volunteer for duty and many do. Druze and Circassians are drafted, Bedouin Arabs volunteer in significant numbers, Christian Arabs volunteer in small numbers, and even several Muslim Arabs are currently in the IDF.)

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @iffen
  140. iffen says:

    Give me something real

    Defense minister.

    IDF General.

    Mossad Director. (I am sure there are plenty of Palestinian agents)

    Exclusion from the Law of Return.

    If you are a supporter of Israel or an Israeli, you are damaging your country’s image.

    You do so much damage posting nonsense that I suspect that you are an anti-Semite poser.

  141. Anonymous • Disclaimer says: • Website

    Neo-nazis are the new Leftist fashion

  142. iffen says:

    Name one way in which the non-Jewish citizens in Israel are actually second class citizens.

    How about getting your house and village bulldozed, your kids killed, yourself driven into exile and government housing for Jews being built on one’s ancestral homeplace?

    That would seem to qualify as 2nd class treatment.

    • Replies: @Andrew E. Mathis
  143. @iffen

    The question was framed to have the answers be specifically limited to Arab Citizens of Israel, to whom these things don’t generally happen, bearing in mind that West Bank and Gazan Palestinians aren’t Israeli citizens.

    The answers are that ACIs are barred from renting land owned by the Jewish Agency and they are barred from immigrating based on the Law of Return and other immigration legislation. Those are substantial ways in which ACIs are handicapped by Israel.

    • Replies: @iffen
  144. @Beefcake the Mighty

    When you build camps for the sole purpose of killing people, then you pretty much have a plan.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  145. @5371

    Have any proof for that, or do I just go on your word for it?

  146. iffen says:
    @Andrew E. Mathis

    The question was framed to have the answers be specifically limited to Arab Citizens of Israel

    Israel draws the lines that determine what is or is not “Israel.”

    No soup for you, you’re outside the line!

    How fucking stupid do you think people are?

    • Replies: @Andrew E. Mathis
  147. Wally [AKA "BobbyBeGood"] says: • Website
    @Andrew E. Mathis

    Where? We see nothing. Just Zionist talk.
    Laughable again.

    You’re in a hole, I recommend that you stop digging.

    • Replies: @Andrew E. Mathis
  148. @iffen

    Even Israel does not claim the West Bank and Gaza are Israel. East Jerusalem, yes, but not the other Palestinian Territories.

    • Replies: @Talha
  149. @Wally

    You’re saying that there was no study at Treblinka because I didn’t physically hand you a copy?

  150. Wally says: • Website
    @Andrew E. Mathis

    More fraud exposed:

    – no dodgy photo of alleged dig as was previously posted

    – covered / obstructed ‘mass grave’ areas in all locations

    – mass graves claimed in photos which show no mass graves whatsoever

    – claimed “pits” with no humam remains in them

    ‘Tales of atrocity from the grave’

    “This is an edited version of a May 11 speech at the Sydney Jewish Museum, Darlinghurst, for the opening of the permanent exhibition Serniki: Unearthing the Holocaust.”
    Bingo! A crappy Zionist source, highly biased and completely untrustworthy, but everyone is realizing that.

    So what do we see? A picture of ONE, that’s ONE skeleton whose origin, date, identity, & location are completely unknown. Note again the utter lack of that dodgy photo.


    The Katyn mass murder by Soviets site, what real forensic excavations look like:

    now under discussion at:
    ‘Mass Graves / Serniki’

    Note a Believer’s embarassing effort in that thread, rather like ‘Rejoining Ash’ here.

    • Replies: @Andrew E. Mathis
  151. Talha says:
    @Andrew E. Mathis

    If I may…

    Even Israel does not claim the West Bank

    No, it just settles it like it does. I can also not claim my neighbor’s house, but I’m sure if I went in whenever I wanted to raid the fridge, use the toilet, trash his furniture, berate his wife – he may have an issue about the validity of my words.

    So you support removal of settlements in the West Bank then, right? Or at the very least, isolating the settler population to one contiguous area so the Palestinians can have their own contiguous manageable area without occupation forces rolling around?


    • Replies: @Andrew E. Mathis
  152. @Talha

    So you support removal of settlements in the West Bank then, right? Or at the very least, isolating the settler population to one contiguous area so the Palestinians can have their own contiguous manageable area without occupation forces rolling around?

    These are my bare minimum conditions. Rather, I favor a single, binational, democratic state west of the Jordan.

    • Replies: @Talha
  153. @Wally

    So in short you don’t know — you have literally no idea — who commissioned the dig at Serniki or why.

    And you seem to believe that if something isn’t available on the Internet, then it doesn’t exist.


    • Replies: @Wally
  154. @Beefcake the Mighty

    How am I begging the question? Tell you what: Maybe you can tell me what Belzec was for, if not the killing of Jews. Any plausible scenario will do, provided you can prove it. I have as proof the testimony of the perpetrators and the survivors, the latter who are so few in number (less than 10), which is strange considering half a million Jews were demonstrably deported there, and they never arrived anywhere else. And there’s also copious physical remains at the site.

    Your explanation?

  155. Talha says:
    @Andrew E. Mathis

    Dear RA,

    Given the circumstances (everyone has to compromise, else we get nowhere), this seems reasonable to me.

    May God preserve you and yours.

    • Agree: Andrew E. Mathis
  156. Wally [AKA "BobbyBeGood"] says: • Website
    @Andrew E. Mathis

    I’m sure the usual redneck Zionists commissioned this laughable ‘”dig”.

    Of course I pointed all that out already, but you pretend I didn’t.

    Here’s for more Unz readers.

    ‘Rejoining Ash’ slapped silly at:
    ‘Mass Graves / Serniki’

    This is too easy.

  157. Wally [AKA "BobbyBeGood"] says: • Website
    @Andrew E. Mathis

    There is also testimony by “perpetrators and survivors” to witchcraft & sorcery. It’s just gotta be true.

    Of course when one looks at this laughable nonsense these “perpetrators and survivors” claim we quickly realize that they are simply impossible and they contradict themselves right & left. It’s embarrassing really. And do follow the money.
    for example after example

    And the excavated, verified mass graves with visible human remains are where exactly?

    Rejoining Ash, you are certainly taking a beating here. But you have provided an excellent opportunity for posting real facts about the impossible ‘6M Jews, 5M others, and gas chambers’.

    Jews: the bride at every wedding, the corpse at every funeral.

    • Replies: @Andrew E. Mathis
  158. @Wally

    You are a case study in ignorance. If your point was that the “usual redneck Zionists” commissioned the dig, then it turns out you’re wrong. Want to try again?

    I have never, and would not, make posts at your laughable little forum, so kindly do not impute that I have.

  159. bunga says:

    ISRAEL was not attacked by Arabs until refugees started streaming out in 1947 -1848 . Combined Arab forces numbering half of Israeli forces and ill trained attacked Israel in `1948 and kept the fight in the areas occupied by Israel ( given to Palestine in 1947 but grabbed in the civil wars of 1947 )

    TRY THESE REFERENCES from NYT Archives –

    “(This certainly isn’t the first time the NYT contradicts itself either)

    Two facts which torpedo the Zionist narrative are corroborated by reporting from the New York Times during this period.

    1. Masses of Palestinian refugees were created before one Arab soldier ‘attacked’ the new state of Israel. In one story from March, 20th, 1947, the New York Times actually addressed the pre-1948 situation as one of colonization and describes it rather appropriately. Imagining such characterization in the NY Times today is fantasy. I urge you to read the whole article, titled “Palestine Jews Minimize Arabs: Sure of Superiority, Settlers Feel They Can Win Natives By Reason or Force,” but here’s an excerpt:

    Whatever the degree of their superiority complex, however, the Jews are certainly confident of their ability to bring the Arabs to terms — by persuasion if possible, by might if necessary. The program of the largest terrorist group, the Irgun Zvai Leumi, is to evacuate the British forces from Palestine and declare a Zionist state west of the Jordan, and “we will take care of the Arabs.”

    Despite this, the New York Times today repeats the ridiculous assertion commonplace in the Zionist narrative that the creation of the state was an innocent act that drew unprovoked and barbaric reaction from the Goliath Arab states. Here is another article, this one from April 16, 1948 and titled “Jews Press Arabs in Pitched Battle in North Palestine“:

    [Villages] taken yesterday were Dabiat er Ruha, Rihania and Kuteinat. Previously they had occupied Kufrin, Abu Sureik, Abu Shusha, Zerain, Naamieh, Ghubyat at Tahta and Ghubyat al Fauqha. Several bridges blown up by Haganah squads between Jenin and Lajjun are hampering Arabs [sic] communication.

    But today’s New York Times wants you to believe that the refugees created during the Nakba period, which is actually from 1947-1949, started only after Arab states attacked the newborn and sinless Israel. In reality, Zionist operations against Palestinian villages began well before the Arab armies crossed any borders. Half the total refugees created during the Nakba were created BEFORE May 15th, 1948.

    Again, another New York Times story from May 2nd, 1948 titled “Dispair is Voiced by Arab Refugees: Evacuees from Palestine say Jews Crash Through Weak Resistance by Volunteers“:

    A stream of Arab refugees is moving eastward across the Jordan river. Many of the refugees passing Jericho en route to Trans-Jordan, a few miles away, are from Jerusalem and Jaffa. They say they fear that Jewish offensives are crashing through weakened Arab volunteer resistance. Haifa was described as almost a ghost town, with its population having dwindled to less than 20,000 from a normal figure at least five times that.

    Another article appearing in the New York Times titled “Palestine Strife Creates DP Issue” is dated May 3rd, 1948 stating “200,000 Arabs are now listed as homeless”:

    It is believed that possibly 50,000 Arabs left Jaffa, thousands of them by sea. Other thousands have fled inland, large numbers of them to become cave dwellers in the historic caves of Beit Jibrin, northwest of Hebron…at least 40,000 Arabs left Haifa when the combined Haganah and Irgun Zvai Leumi force stormed the Arab market place and conquered all of the city except the British-held waterfront. From Jerusalem wealthy Arabs have fled to near-by countries, the poorer ones into the hills and villages.

    Another New York Times story, this one from April 18th, 1948, tells of horror among refugees and massacres in the Galilee:

    According to reports telephoned from Nablus, that town and Jenin are crowded with refugees, among whom the rumor is circulating that the Jews are driving on Jenin. The Haganah said it had killed 130 Druse [sic] tribesmen yesterday when it seized Usha, a village east of Haifa.

    This information is important not simply because it illustrates how poorly the New York Times‘ current day reporting is on an issue it reported on thoroughly at the time (They can’t even copy and paste), but also because it clearly rebuts the Zionist narrative people like Jeffery Goldberg incessantly repeat despite mounds of historic evidence to the contrary. In this post, Goldberg argues that the Nakba was “self-inflicted” because the Arabs “attacked the just-born Jewish state and then managed to lose on the battlefield.” Setting aside the already morally corrupt notion that ethnic cleansing during war is somehow acceptable, history simply proves Goldberg wrong. For a detailed account of the patterns of depopulation, you can see this video of Salman Abu Sitta’s recent lecture at the Palestine Center, starting around the 10 minute mark.

    2. The pre-state Israeli forces were far greater in number and far better equipped than the combined forces of the “Goliath” Arab armies. This is another myth in the Zionist narrative. They want you to believe that the 5 Arab armies had genocidal intentions and wanted to destroy Israel. Why else would you send 5 armies against one? But if the 13 nation-states of the Caribbean attacked the United States we’d hardly consider the United States the ‘David’ facing a Caribbean Goliath. But the Zionist narrative wants to trick you with a faulty numbers game. In reality, the pre-state Israel forces were greater in numbers and far superior in training than the combined forces of the infamous 5 Arab Armies. Conveniently, the New York Times reported in an article from Feb. 29th, 1948 titled “The Army Called ‘Haganah’” :

    Nobody knows its full strength, let alone its membership rolls. But it is no amateur army. It has a nucleus of 30,000 men who served in the British forces. Three thousand of them served in the RAF, including more than forty pilots. More than 300 served in the Commandos and 4,000 in the Jewish Brigade in action in Italy. The British estimate Haganah’s active membership at anywhere from 60,000 to 80,000.

    David Ben Gurion’s war diary notes that at every stage of the war Zionist troops outnumbered combined Arab armies. The Arab armies were disorganized having little combat experience prior to this with the exception of some of the Jordanian forces. Most Arab soldiers were using outdated arms from WWI or earlier which were inferior to the Zionist armies’ WWII arms and artillery. But even though these are facts the New York Times told us back then, they don’t want to remind you about it now. It makes you wonder; do the people that write the New York Times read the New York Times?
    – See more at:

    • Replies: @schmenz
    , @Durruti
  160. schmenz says:

    Israeli Bolierplate 101.

  161. @Wally

    There is also testimony by “perpetrators and survivors” to witchcraft & sorcery. It’s just gotta be true.

    Those testimonies were not supported by physical evidence; the Belzec testimonies were/are.

    And the excavated, verified mass graves with visible human remains are where exactly?

    I already provided a link for the Belzec excavation data. Your refusal to look at it isn’t my problem.

    Rejoining Ash, you are certainly taking a beating here. But you have provided an excellent opportunity for posting real facts about the impossible ’6M Jews, 5M others, and gas chambers’.

    Really? What I see is repeated cut and pastes from a neo-Nazi Web site in which you clearly have some financial interest, where a chorus of chimpanzees all clap hands around someone called “Hannover,” whose posting style, including insults, strongly resembles your own. Fair enough?

    • Replies: @L.K
  162. stickman says:

    Not even a quibble with Giraldi on this piece. He is taking essentially a righteous stand in the dispute between justice for the Palestinian people and the inherent racism in Talmudic Judaism which is exacerbated immensely by the Rothschild Zionists. Though Giraldi does not extend his observations to denote the racism inherent in the “Chosen People=Master Race shtick; it is quite possible to read between his lines.

    One should always bear in mind that there are righteous Jews of good conscience who stand in the forefront of the BDS movement, for example. I could only wish there were far more of them.

  163. schmenz says:

    Excellent. Thank you.

  164. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says: • Website

    WWII didn’t happen!!

    Where are the bodies?

  165. bunga says:

    Directly quoting a quote out of Mondoweiss

    May 4, 2016, 10:32 am

    This controversy brings to mind the following:

    After WWII, a memorandum dated January 11, 1941, was discovered in Ankara. Prepared by the German Naval Attaché in Turkey, it revealed that Naftali Lubentschik, a representative of the Stern Gang (one of the Yishuv’s terrorist orgnaizations) led by Avraham Stern, had met with German Nazis, Otto Von Hentig and Rudolph Rosen in Vichy controlled Beirut and proposed that in exchange for military aid and freedom to recruit European Jews for Palestine, the Sternists were prepared “…to take an active part in the war on Germany’s side…and [this cooperation] would also be in line with one [of Hitler’s recent speeches which] stressed that any alliance would be entered into in order to isolate England and defeat it.”

    The proposition presented to the Nazis pointed out that “the establishment of the historical Jewish state on a national and totalitarian basis and bound by a treaty with the German Reich would be in the interest of maintaining and strengthening the future German position of power in the Near East.” (Quoted by Klaus Polkehn, “The Secret Contacts: Zionist-Nazi Relations, 1933-1941” as well as Lenny Brenner, Zionism in the Age of Dictators, Westport, Conn., Lawrence Hill & Co., 1983, p. 267 and Yediot Aharnot, February 4/1983). The Nazis rejected the Stern Gang’s proposal.

    Following Stern’s death at the hands of the British in 1942, three of his lieutenants (one of whom was Yitzhak Shamir) took over leadership of the Gang. It is revealing to note that despite Avraham Stern’s ignominious record and his flirtation with the Nazis, Ben-Gurion later referred to him as “one of the finest and most outstanding figures of the era.”

    Also, for the record:
    “Adolf Hitler, who took his racism seriously, applied it to all Semites. He could not stand Arabs either. Contrary to legend, he disliked the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin al-Husseini, who had fled to Germany. After meeting him once for a photo-opportunity arranged by the Nazi propaganda machine, he never agreed to meet him again.” (Uri Avnery – link to
    – See more at:

  166. @Andrew E. Mathis

    Confessions likely obtained under duress are not very reliable, and many of these eyewitness accounts are simply fantasy. Having said that, I don’t doubt that many Jews were killed at places like Belzec and Treblinka. But unless you would have me believe ridiculous accounts of burning bodies on open air pyres and such, I find it hard to believe that 500K were murdered there. And there is no forensic evidence for such a number anyway, at any of the camps. What happened to them? Who knows? But it seems likely this was part of a very harsh wartime policy, and not some systematic extermination plan.

    • Replies: @Andrew E. Mathis
  167. @Beefcake the Mighty

    Confessions likely obtained under duress are not very reliable,

    Certainly you can provide some proof of witnesses at the Belzec trial being placed “under duress.”

    and many of these eyewitness accounts are simply fantasy

    Well, I gave you a very easy job by focusing on Belzec. Here are the known survivors who gave testimony: Rudolf Reder, Chaim Hirshman, and Israel Shapiro. That’s a grand total of three. Should take you no time to track down their testimonies, read them, and demonstrate what’s “simply fantasy” about then.

    Having said that, I don’t doubt that many Jews were killed at places like Belzec and Treblinka.

    So the number is inflated, you say? What happened to the rest of the people sent there, then?

    But unless you would have me believe ridiculous accounts of burning bodies on open air pyres

    Ridiculous why? Your mere assertion that something is ridiculous doesn’t make it ridiculous.

    and such, I find it hard to believe that 500K were murdered there.

    You find it hard to believe why?

    And there is no forensic evidence for such a number anyway, at any of the camps.

    That’s just flatly untrue. Thirty-three mass graves were identified at Belzec with a total volume of approximately 21,300 cubic meters or approximately 752,202 cubic feet.

    What happened to them? Who knows?

    Let’s try it this way: I say half a million people were sent to Belzec and then disappeared. There are clearly massive numbers of human remains there and only a handful of people who ever said they were interned there. Of those interned there, they all say it was a killing station that used gas chambers. So do the people that worked there.

    Your explanation for what Belzec was would have to explain the remains, the testimonies, and provide some alternate explanation for where some reasonable proportion of those half a million people went. Otherwise, you’re not playing like a grown-up.

    But it seems likely this was part of a very harsh wartime policy, and not some systematic extermination plan.

    What else is sending half a million people to a place and killing them there but an extermination plan, exactly?

  168. L.K says:
    @Andrew E. Mathis

    Rejoining Ash,

    You are clearly a pathetic LIAR & a SHILL.

    Among many other idiocies, you wrote:

    “Those testimonies were not supported by physical evidence; the Belzec testimonies were/are.”

    NO, they are NOT. I’m familiar with the study, you are l-y-i-n-g.

    Obviously, people did die in the camps, so finding some human remains is normal. The Belzec excavation data, in fact, supports the revisionist position. Few graves and too little human remains = NO death camp.

    The so called Holocau\$t is a monstrous hoax bc its three essential, key elements, are all FALSE.
    (1) intention to mass murder the Jews, by Hitler and/or the NS elite;

    (2) the use of gas chambers for industrial mass murder at specific locations; and

    (3) the 6 million deaths.

    Most people are led to believe re the ‘holocau\$t’, that there is abundant proof of the alleged crime, as described above.
    This is absolutely NOT THE CASE.

    Let’s take a look at some admissions against interest by important holocaust “historians”:

    During an interview to the Canadian STAR, 27 December 2009, prominent Jewish holo “historian” and Auschwitz ‘expert’, Robert Jan van Pelt, stated:

    “We have no material or forensic evidence to support eyewitness reports of gassings…
    Ninety-nine per cent of what we know we do not actually have the physical evidence to prove [then how do ‘we know’ it!?]…
    It has become part of our inherited knowledge.”


    Professor van Pelt also admitted that the “evidence” for the mass killings of Jews at Treblinka, Sobibor and Belzec—where allegedly millions were murdered – is sparse at best. In reference to these three camps, he wrote: “There are few eyewitnesses, no confession that can compare to that given by [Auschwitz commandant Rudolf] Höss, no significant remains, and few archival sources.”

    In fact, several holocau\$t “historians”, such as American professor and professional holohoaxter, Christopher Browning, have admitted that the “confession” of Höss is quite unreliable. No surprises, the man was brutally tortured.

    In other words, Van Pelt is saying that there is no material or forensic evidence to support the Auschwitz gas chamber story and 99% of what he claims to be known is unsupported by physical evidence… then he also tells us that the “evidence” for the Aktion Reinhardt “death camps” is, in fact, even more lacking!
    Notice he also mentions not only the lack of documents but also the fact that there are no significant remains.

    Obviously, if mass killings of such order of magnitude in small camps the size of large parking lots had taken place, there would a massive amount of remains and huge mass graves.
    Archeological investigations of Belzec concentration camp in the late 1990s, for example, found no trace of the alleged homicidal gas chambers. Holocaust “researcher”, i.e, quack, Robin O’Neal, conceded : “We found no trace of the gassing barracks dating from either the first or second phase of the camp’s construction.”

    Israeli and Polish archeologists who recently investigated the Sobibor camp site found no physical evidence to prove the Sobibor homicidal “gas chambers” existed, or that hundreds of thousands were massacred there.

    In fact, already in 1951, the Jew Léon Poliakov, who had been part of the French delegation at the Nuremberg show trials (1945-1946), stated his conclusion that we had at our disposal an overabundance of documents for all points of the history of the Third Reich, with the exception of one point alone: the “campaign to exterminate the Jews”. For this, he wrote, “No document remains, perhaps none has ever existed” (Bréviaire de la haine, Paris, Calmann-Lévy, 1974 [1951], p. 171; English version: Harvest of Hate, New York, Holocaust Library, 1979, revised and expanded edition).

    • Replies: @Andrew E. Mathis
  169. Re. coercion, I was referring to defendants, not witnesses. There were definitely cases of torture or other threats employed against German officials. You are perhaps right re. Belzec, although the primary German source of the official account, Gerstein, died under mysterious circumstances in French custody and at any rate his claims are often inconsistent and frankly absurd (e.g. 15,000 killed per day, etc.).

    Some of the absurd claims re. Belzec include death by electrocution, “death trains”, and of course the human soap stories which no one believes.

    As you no doubt know, nothing but speculation re. the number of corpses in those excavated graves was ever made. Which is why I suspect you decline to attribute such a number here instead of volumetric notes.

    But to your ultimate point that I’m obligated to explain what happened to the Jews sent there: why? It’s sufficient to say that, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, they weren’t all killed there.

    • Replies: @Andrew E. Mathis
  170. @L.K

    Do you find it difficult to type while wearing a straitjacket?

  171. @Beefcake the Mighty

    We know how many died at Belzec because we know how many were sent there and we know how few survivors there were. Hundreds of thousands of people being sent to a single location and then disappearing is pretty good proof that they died there, especially given the remains in the ground and the testimonies.

    The key prosecution witness at the Belzec trial was Josef Oberhauser, who was in the SS detachment at Belzec. What proof do you have that he was coerced?

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  172. @Andrew E. Mathis

    You keep saying it’s “known” they disappeared. But it’s really not. The Soviets would have been in a position to produce the necessary forensic evidence (disregarding claims that the Germans dug up and burned all the bodies in the middle of Polish winter), but they didn’t. They would also be in possession of German documents detailing what did happen to those prisoners. So, likely scenario, many were indeed killed, but many were sent to other camps to serve the German war effort. The Soviets lied about other atrocities (e.g. 4M killed at Auschwitz), there’s no reason to think they wouldn’t lie about the so-called transit camps.

    • Replies: @Andrew E. Mathis
  173. @Beefcake the Mighty

    OK, great! So the Soviets concealed what happened to the Jews who were sent to Belzec. The Soviets have been gone for 25 years now. Why don’t we have the evidence of what happened to them? The rest of the Soviets’ lies have been exposed. Why not this one? It isn’t like the Soviets didn’t keep their own records of things.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  174. @Andrew E. Mathis

    Obviously, the most sensitive Soviet state secrets are still under lock and key. Russian national myth-making on the issue of German war crimes is pretty strong, although not as strong as it is for the Jews. (The Russians have unfortunately assumed a fair amount of Soviet baggage.). Plus why would the West want to expose them? They’re parties to the lie after all.

    • Replies: @Andrew E. Mathis
    , @Wally
  175. Durruti says:

    to justice,

    Nice important comment. Should be read by all.

    The references to the New York Times, (which is the leading Rothschild & other Zionist Oligarchs, propaganda organ, are legitimate. The back-handed admissions from the NYT, and leaks by some of their not totally evil reporters are doubly significant.

    By way of analogy:

    Their (NYT) articles covering the American Military/CIA extermination of 1 million Indonesian civilians in 1965, are similarly significant. Just Google “Indonesian Massacres,” The NYT reporters admit to the seriousness of the massacre “The rivers ran red with blood.” – I remember that sentence to this day (quote should be close to exact, or paraphrased). Their articles, (naturally / typically), blamed the Victims for their misfortune. The NYT insisted that the Civilian Victims, (Unarmed), somehow were responsible for their own demise. We are describing the massacre of whole families, men, women, elderly, and their children. The bulk of the secular oriented Indonesian Middle Class was eliminated – as part of the American -terrorist- Phoenix Program which was used in Vietnam (where 2 million civilians were slaughtered, mostly by American bombing.

    The slaughter of Wounded Knee, and of tens of thousands of Philipine Independentists, 1900-1904, and a thousand other horrors come to mind.

    The cynical handling, (or mishandling) of history is one of the key patterns of abuse so described by Orwell, and others, that accompany murderous Crimes Against Humanity.

    Check it out.

    The Truth shall make us free, or very unhappy. Or Both.


  176. @Beefcake the Mighty

    You’re not making any sense. Before the Soviet collapse, Gorbachev admitted to Soviet war crimes, most importantly the Katyn Forest massacre, which they had tried to pin on the Nazis. As you noted, they also conceded that the death toll at Auschwitz was heavily inflated. But they’re going to continue to hide relocation of millions upon millions of Jews? For what possible reason are they going to hide that information?

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  177. Wally [AKA "BobbyBeGood"] says: • Website
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Good work Beefcake, Rejoining Ash has made a fool of himself yet again. He’s been sliced & diced here.

    But what can anyone expect from a redneck Zionist who recites from the racist hasbara handbook.

    All the issues under discussion have been thoroughly handled at:

    BTW, it’s my understanding that the numbers have surged at that forum.
    Isn’t great?

    • Replies: @Andrew E. Mathis
  178. L.K says:

    The “death camps” Treblinka, Belzec and Sobibor were basically transit camps where deportees were routed to various other labor and concentration camps in Poland itself or in the occupied territories in the East.

    The verdict of the Düsseldorf Treblinka show trial, for example, stated that “coming from Treblinka, several thousand people are said to have arrived at other camps.”

    This is confirmed by the testimony of many former deportees.

    In the following excellent underground documentary by E.Hunt, which dissects the propaganda techniques used by the holocau\$t industry( in this case re Treblinka), one can listen to several former Jewish deportees freely talking about how they were routed through “death camp” Treblinka to several other locations, at about 6:20

    Well worth watching it all, to understand how atrocity propaganda is made and how we are bombarded with it.

    • Replies: @Andrew E. Mathis
  179. @Wally

    Interesting that you won’t engage further with me. That’s strong evidence of cowardice and lack of conviction in one’s beliefs.

  180. @L.K

    So where are the records of hundreds of thousands of Jews arriving in the occupied East in 1942 and 1943?

    • Replies: @X
  181. @Andrew E. Mathis

    Your question isn’t serious. The Soviets (and Western and Jewish sources) acknowledge that the Auschwtiz number was phony, it is true, but the fundamental story (including the magical 6M number) remains unchanged. It’s value as a propaganda tool and ideological weapon is obvious.

    • Replies: @Andrew E. Mathis
  182. @Beefcake the Mighty

    The six million figure was never related to the inflated Auschwitz figure. See, e.g., Hilberg’s 1961 study, which cites a one million figure for that camp.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  183. @Andrew E. Mathis

    Fair enough, but Hilberg acknowledged the lack of documentary evidence by claiming that the Germans communicated orders by telepathy, essentially. He clearly had a desired conclusion in mind.

    • Replies: @Andrew E. Mathis
  184. anarchyst says:

    If a country were hell-bent on genocide, WHY WOULD THEY KEEP RECORDS?? WHY would they build “camps” hundreds (if not thousands) of miles away with sanitary facilities, housing, recreational, medical and other ancillary facilities. Would it not have been easier to just “eliminate” them without going through all of this trouble? The jewish communist Bolsheviks did just that with the non-communist civilian populations of the conquered countries in the communist orbit.

    Something BIG “stinks” in this whole jewish “holocaust ™” deal. It is no secret that jewish Zionists made “deals” with the Nazis in order to make life “uncomfortable” for jewish Germans.

    The establishment of a “homeland” was a Zionist “dream” since the 1800s. What better way to encourage “emigration” to a barren land than to make things difficult for the “cream of German society” (jews)?? The TRUTH about the so-called jewish “holocaust ™” is out . . .

    The so-called jewish “holocaust ™” has been turned into a de-facto “religion” in which no deviation from orthodoxy is permitted. In fact, in most European countries, independent investigation into jewish “holocaust ™” truths is strictly forbidden under pain of fines and imprisonment. In the USA, things are not quite as bad, only job loss and personal and professional destruction at the hands of those of the “tribe” that FEAR the real truth of the jewish “holocaust ™” being exposed is evident.

    The truth about this minor event in human history will change much of the world’s perception about those that are using this event as a “cash cow” that “keeps on giving”. . . “there’s NO business like “SHOAH business”.
    Jewish complicity in this event is carefully “covered up”.

    It is curious to note that jewish interests will hunt down and imprison a 90 plus year-old German “camp guard” while looking the other way when their “own kind” was involved in truly brutal actions. Camp “capos” and “sonderkommandos” (who were primarily jewish) come to mind. Not one of these jewish “collaborators” has been brought to (jewish) justice. I guess blood is thicker than water.

    A good example of present-day censorship is the fate that awaits those that dare question “official” jewish “holocaust” orthodoxy. Most European countries have criminalized ANY line of thought that deviates from the “official” jewish “holocaust” story. WHY?? In fact, TRUTH is no defense when it comes to “all things holocaust”.
    Ask noted WW2 researcher David Irving, who was forced to recant TRUTH in order to avoid punishment. . .

    If people only knew of the planning that took place (among those of the “chosen”) to engineer the jewish “holocaust”, there would be a pogrom of massive size. You see, the jewish “holocaust” was necessary in order to force the establishment of a jewish state. In this case, the ENDS justified the MEANS. There have been many “holocausts” of much greater misery throughout human history, yet the jewish “holocaust” is the only one that counts . . .

    Most jews will never be satisfied with knowing that those that commit evil deeds on earth in this lifetime will pay for it in the next life . . . they have taken vengeance from the Creator and appointed themselves the exacter of vengeance (in contradiction to mosaic law but not their anti-gentile talmud).

    Most jews are vengeful people that will never pass up a chance to “make a buck” by screwing a gentile (goyim) out of money or property. jews were hated in Germany for taking advantage of the non-jew Germans between the two world wars. The average German did not have a pot to piss in while his wealthy jewish neighbor was trading food for land . . . taking advantage of the jewish bankster situation in Germany.

    Look at the “commercialization of the so-called jewish “holocaust ™” while the much larger communist (true) holocaust is conveniently forgotten. To assure a continuing supply of jewish “holocaust ™” “survivors”, jews are tattooing their ATM (oops, I mean “camp” numbers) on their children and grandchildren.

    Since the jews declared war on Germany in 1933 (yes, 1933), the Germans had no choice but to complete the Zionist plan of marginalizing German jews (to say the least).. This fulfilled the Zionist plan of forcing German jews to emigrate to Palestine while making the world grant jews a “homeland”–Israel.

    Zionists have been predicting a jewish “homeland” for the last two-hundred years while predicting a “holocaust ™” of 6 million for the same amount of time. The ACTUAL number of non-combatant deaths in the European theater of operations is approximately 731,000, NOT 6 million (official International Red Cross figures).

    Regarding that “holocaust ™” “showplace” Auschwitz, there are engineering inconsistencies in the design of the so-called “gas chambers”. The doors are not of a gas-tight design; it would have been impossible to retrieve the bodies, and there is no means to ventilate the rooms after the so-called “gassing” took place”. From an engineering standpoint, these are very serious errors that would have caused the deaths of the “operators” of these supposed “gas chambers”.
    American execution expert, Fred Leuchter travelled to Auschwitz, surreptitiously obtained samples from the purported “gas chambers”, had them tested and published his results. The absence of methylene blue in ALL of the samples, save one, was PROOF that the “gas chambers” did not exist. The one positive sample was taken from a room used to disinfect clothing.
    Mr. Leuchter was rewarded for his search for TRUTH by his professional and personal character assassination by those of the “tribe”. He lost all of his federal and state contracts, and was prosecuted under an obscure Massachusetts “law” for “practicing engineering without a license”–a law which had never been used before or since. . .

    It is no secret that after WW2, the Soviets attempted to “create” the “death camps” for propaganda purposes.
    The engineering inconsistencies proves that these “death camps” were recreated for communist propaganda purposes. Germans were excellent engineers, and as such, would not have made the engineering “mistakes” that are evident.
    Yes, there was extreme deprivation and suffering–many people perished. However, the prime cause of death was typhus. As allied bombings destroyed most of the infrastructure, typhus was at epidemic levels. THIS is what caused the massive amounts of human deaths . . .NOT gassing.

    After the end of WW2, these same “camps” were used to intern German civilians. These German civilians were subject to much greater deprivation and suffering than the previous “occupants” of these “camps”. In fact, jews were controlling these camps, at the behest of the Allied forces, and were vicious in their treatment of those interned. In fact, the German civilians interned were defined as “disarmed enemy combatants” despite being civilians, so that Geneva Convention rules would not apply to them.

    In fact, it was JEWS that ran the internment camps after WW2. I guess vengeance was theirs, as the Germans made the jews WORK (manual labor in the camps) for the first time in their lives…

  185. Polar Bear says: • Website

    Jews are hated everywhere they go for good reason. If goyim reacted appropriately, there would be no more despicable joos.

  186. @Beefcake the Mighty

    I don’t think you’ve actually read Hilberg. He doesn’t say anything about telepathy. You’re parroting a bad interpretation of a bad interpretation.

    Hilberg was a believer in the idea that the nature of Nazi bureaucracy lent itself to competition among departments and interest groups and that much of the Holocaust was driven forward by such competition.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  187. annamaria says:

    actually, the interstitial people have been supporting ISIS in a daylight – for the whole world to see. The Israelis’ support of ISIS included financing the ISIS by way of oil trading, treating ISIS warriors at the Israeli hospitals, violating the Syrian space and bombing the Syrian army personnel in order to weaken the flight of the sovereign state of Syria against ISIS. All these criminal acts have been committed in order to get the mineral-rich Golan Heights.
    The “never again” and “never forget” have become utterly empty words bringing to mind the theft of Palestinian land and the “mowing” the civilian population in the Israel-occupied Gaza. The “never again” also reminds about the Lobby’s successful capture of the US Congress and thus about the Iraq & Libya & Syria destruction. The Middle East tragic saga of the last 15 years comes out as a step-by-step application of Yinon Plan for creation of Greater Israel. Instead of becoming an exemplar of ethics (see the numerous Holocaust Museums), Israel has succumbed to the banality of evil. Sad.

  188. @Andrew E. Mathis

    The fact is, he allowed the conclusion to drive the interpretation.

    • Replies: @Andrew E. Mathis
  189. Anti-Semites are a bunch of boo hoo cry babies who, like criminals, want to use violence to tip the scales in their favor with regard to Jews. This is typical of the conduct of all criminals. They whine and cry baby about not being born rich, so they turn to violence and crime to get by violence what they can’t get honestly with they own talents and hard work.

    Every country has the right to self defense, and the right to pursue its national interest as its first, and even its only, priority. Differences between states can be pursued by war or diplomacy, or any other means, subject to other states taking counter measures they consider to be in their national interest. The Muslims generally, and the Palestinians in particular are a bunch of loser cry babies who want to get by violence what they can’t get with their own inferior talents and brains.

    Israel is a state, that has fought 6 wars to keep its independence and protect it borders. In each of these wars America and Europeans forced them to stop when they had defeated the Arabs. In each war if not stopped the Jews would have wiped out every Arab state in the Middle East, and Israel would be ten time the size it is now. We have given aid to Israel as a inducement to get them to take their foot off of the neck of the Arabs. If America had refrained from being involved Israel would long ago have defeated totally all of the Arab States combined. Only America “forcing” Israel to back off has allowed these worthless states to continue to exist.

    America should do nothing for or against any other state that is not in America’s National Interest. Part of America’s National Interest, as she sees it, is defending Christianity and Judaism anywhere in the world they are threatened. Jews like all peoples have both good and bad people among themselves. No nation is perfect and no person is perfect. Hitler should have focused on cleaning up the filthy, lazy, stupid, disloyal German people, instead of blaming Germany’s own faults on the Jews.

    Anti-Semites have chosen for whatever reasons to make war on Jews and the Jewish state of Israel, and they in turn must expect to have war waged on them, by any means necessary.

    America has many many “Lobbies” that lobby for many things, such as Atheism, Secular Humanism, Catholicism, Whites, Blacks and Hispanics. Jews are no different than any other group, except maybe a bit smarter. But the way to deal with Jews being “Smarter” is for other groups to get “Smarter” not to go boo hoo complaining about Jews having an advantage over them.

  190. @Beefcake the Mighty

    The conclusion being what? That millions of Jews were murdered? That wasn’t his conclusion. That was the established fact upon which he based his thesis.

    You’re projecting what Holocaust deniers do onto actual scholars. None of them have written with the goal of proving the Holocaust.

  191. geokat62 says:

    Hey, FounderChurch. Not sure how you ended up here at Unz. But based on your comment, you’ve obviously landed on the wrong webpage. I think you were probably looking for the NYT, WaPo, or WSJ. Just click on one of the links below and it should redirect you there:

    • Replies: @iffen
  192. @FounderChurch

    Nations have the legitimate right of self-defense, not to live parasitically off of other nations.

    • Replies: @FounderChurch
  193. @Andrew E. Mathis

    If by an “established fact” you mean the 6M number and gas chambers, it’s one for which there is little documentary or forensic evidence.

    • Replies: @Andrew E. Mathis
  194. Israel raids hit Gaza as violence flares for fourth day

    (caution: photos & text may be doctored. viewer discretion advised)

  195. @Andrew E. Mathis

    BTW, not that it matters in any way, but I’m not a “denier”, I acknowledge that what happened to the Jews was a great crime, but akin to what happened to the Armenians (1-2M from all causes), not a cosmic event, or more appallingly, a defining event for present-day Jews.

  196. @FounderChurch

    anti-Semites . . .want to use violence to tip the scales in their favor with regard to Jews. This is typical of the conduct of all criminals.

    Do you mean violence like writing books, holding conferences and speakers’ events, and speaking inconvenient truths –are all of these instances of criminal conduct & violence according to you, First Amendment to US Constitution be damned?

    How do you define attacking unarmed and blockaded civilians with the most sophisticated weaponry on the planet — as Israel has been doing in Gaza these past 4 days is that your version of “non-violence”??

    • Replies: @OLD JEW
    , @FounderChurch
  197. iffen says:

    What’s this, you have appointed yourself hall monitor now?

  198. iffen says:

    Palestinians have the right of self defense.

  199. @Beefcake the Mighty

    There’s actually quite a bit of evidence for gas chambers, considering the efforts undertaken to destroy the evidence. Ditto on documents. The population first bear out a population decrease of at least 4.5 million, but I’m comfortable with a figure of 5.75 million. I agree, btw, that it shouldn’t be a defining aspect of Jewishness.

  200. OLD JEW says:

    Dear Sol, (sounds better than Croesus)


    How do you define attacking unarmed and blockaded civilians with the most sophisticated weaponry on the planet



    Lack of agility.


    IDF lacks the capability of nimble response.

    It cannot localize and reply in real -time to small arms fire.

    The perpetrators fire and melt away.


    The fire has no return address.

    They have declared to themselves: “Hamas is in absolute control of Gaza”

    HAMAS is the return address.

    Biggest nightmare for IDF would be a failed state (ex: Somalia).

    • Replies: @iffen
  201. iffen says:
    @OLD JEW

    Biggest nightmare for IDF would be a failed state (ex: Somalia).

    But supposedly the Israeli leadership wants to be surrounded in the ME by failed states. (This is supposed to be the motivation for “manipulating” [with a major assist from American Jews] America into major wars to dissolve existing nation states in the ME. Clever Israelis want to be surrounded by 10-20 Hamas type entities so that they have to continually take police actions in numerous states to exponentially increase the “goodwill” that they get from the rest of the world for actions in places like Lebanon, Gaza, West Bank, etc.

    It looks to me like the anti-Zionists would be the ones to pursue this path.

    Oh, and they want to grab Golan which they have had for 50 years.

  202. geokat62 says:

    But supposedly the Israeli leadership wants to be surrounded in the ME by failed states.

    Michael Oren, a prominent lawmaker from Israel’s governing coalition and a former ambassador to Washington, is quoted by the WSJ expressing precisely that sentiment:

    If we have to choose between ISIS and Assad, we’ll take ISIS.

    • Replies: @iffen
  203. X says:
    @Andrew E. Mathis

    You can’t be this stupid, can you?

    Q: So where are the records of hundreds of thousands of Jews arriving in the occupied East in 1942 and 1943?

    A: Destroyed by the Soviets.

    You really need to find other employment… hasbara is just not your thing. (P.S. You’re not very good at it!)

  204. iffen says:

    Just because one or more Israeli politicians support the “smash all ME nation states into pieces” idea does not mean that it is good policy. Israelis are not infallible, they make mistakes, sometimes major mistakes. Contrary to the belief of some, Israelis, and Jews for that matter, can and do have different ideas and beliefs.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  205. geokat62 says:

    Just because one or more Israeli politicians support the “smash all ME nation states into pieces” idea does not mean that it is good policy.

    Who said anything about it being good policy? All most of us are suggesting is that this is indeed the policy that has been foisted on the United States by a foreign lobby that believes this policy is truly in the best interests of the Zionist entity:

    “It is hoped that the removal of Saddam Hussein from power will set in motion a ‘domino effect,’ will end the Palestinian Intifada, bring about the end of Yasser Arafat’s regime and eradicate the threat to Israel from Iran, Syria and Hezbollah.”

    Contrary to the belief of some, Israelis, and Jews for that matter, can and do have different ideas and beliefs.

    Who is suggesting “Israelis, and Jews for that matter” are a monolithic? What most of us are suggesting is while there are, indeed, disparate viewpoints in the community, its leadership is united in promoting the policy of balkaniizing the Zionist entity’s enemies, as outlined in the Oded Yinon Plan and in PNAC’s A Clean Break. It is also clear that the Lobby has exercised its tremendous influence on US institutions to implement the goals set out in these policy papers by launching the GWOT, a front for regime changing those countries deemed hostile to the Zionist entity, all in an effort to enhance the security of the villa in the jungle.

    Do you doubt any of this?

    • Replies: @iffen
  206. @iffen

    Since Israel created Hamas, I suspect they’d be ok with your scenario.

    • Replies: @iffen
  207. iffen says:

    Yes, I doubt that most of the Israeli leadership are pursuing a plan to have Israel surrounded by 15-25 Hamas like entities.

    As to US institutions, leaders, diplomats and such, I think that they are like children in a world of wolves, pedophiles, jesters and conmen. That John Kerry in his many rounds of senseless diplomacy has shown any coherent overall strategy that is beneficial to the US would have to be proven to me.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  208. geokat62 says:

    Yes, I doubt that most of the Israeli leadership are pursuing a plan to have Israel surrounded by 15-25 Hamas like entities.

    So what plan are they, and the Lobby, pursuing, in your view?

    • Replies: @iffen
  209. iffen says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    If reality is just one big Jew created matrix we would be damn fools to tamper with their control.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  210. iffen says:

    I think they would like to have more Jordans, Saudi Arabias and Egypts. Some of them seem to fear Iran but I think that is because Iran sponsors irregulars and militias that will actually fight Israel. It would have been smart to help Iraq stay together as a counter-weight to Iran. Maybe you are right and they want Iraq destroyed so Iran will feel safe and can unleash more irregulars without having to worry about Iraq’s power.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  211. @iffen

    Not sure what you’re replying to. It’s well-known that, much like the CIA created the Mujahideen in Afghanistan, the Mossad created Hamas to serve as a counter-weight and tool. Maybe Dr. Frankenstein has lost control of his monster now, but I doubt it.

    • Replies: @iffen
  212. iffen says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    To reiterate, if they are that fucking good, let’s try to not piss them off.

  213. geokat62 says:

    I think they would like to have more Jordans, Saudi Arabias and Egypts

    Of course they would. But the Iraqs, Syrias, Libyas, and Irans were not obliging.

    I think option one was to install a US/Israel-friendly regime (e.g. Ahmed Chalabi in Iraq), but failing that they were content to see these countries broken up into their component parts. And rather than coming out and announcing this was their real intent, they pulled a page from Sharansky’s playbook and claimed that their intervention in the ME was to promote democracy. Here is one of my previous comments:

    [It] is very important to remember the source of the Bush Doctrine of promoting democracy at the point of a gun. It was a book (The Case for Democracy) by Natan Sharansky who was a refusnik and former Interior Minister of Israel. Rather than having a genuine desire to liberate the peoples of the ME, Sharansky devised an ingenious scheme that would destabilize Israel’s remaining enemies. These countries were targeted because they were supporting the Palestinians in their struggle against Israeli oppression. The common trait among these countries was that they were led by autocrats – Hussein in Iraq, Assad in Syria, Gaddafi in Libya – or autocratic regimes – the theocracy in Iran. Since these regimes proved difficult to subvert from without, Sharansky’s brilliant idea was to topple them from within. And this would require little effort thanks to how most of these countries were artificially constructed on the ruins of the Ottoman Empire. The Sykes-Picot Agreement was based on the principle of “Divide and Rule.” So Shia, Sunni, and Kurd were placed within a common border. Good luck trying to establish a functioning democracy under these circumstances. So next time someone talks about the virtue of “spreading democracy,” remember these are really code words for spreading instability and ultimately, bringing about regime change.

    • Agree: SolontoCroesus
    • Replies: @iffen
  214. iffen says:

    OK, you are wearing me down. I forfeit the TOT title to you.

    I agree that the Jewish/Israel lobby/Lobby has way too much influence over American foreign policy.

    People worry about different things. Some people worry about whether Saudi Arabia or Israel was instrumental to 9/11.

    I worry about whether or not the pilots received DOE grants to attend flight school.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  215. geokat62 says:

    I agree that the Jewish/Israel lobby/Lobby has way too much influence over American foreign policy.

    Thanks for acknowledging this point. It’s makes a difference.

  216. Blake says:

    zionists defying logic again. Impossible to attack ones invader dispossessor

  217. @SolontoCroesus

    Freedom of speech is not per se violent, BUT when that speech is used to justify and encourage aggressive violence against Jews and Israel, then it can be considered as aiding and abetting violence. And hat is exactly what the defender of Hamas and Hezbollah are doing with their speech, even in the Parliament of England. This is what everyone except anti-Semites are doing.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  218. @Beefcake the Mighty

    They have the “right” to do anything they can get away with.

  219. @FounderChurch

    Why don’t you bring a lawsuit against Hamas and Hezbollah and their defenders, FounderChurch?

    It would be terrific to have a precedent set by which victims of speech that incites to violence can collect reparations/restitutions, maybe even treble damages from the perpetrator of such violence-provoking speech.

    For example, the authors and funders of The Israel Project’s Global Language Dictionary (2009) could be held liable for disseminating information intentionally calculed to be harmful to the wellbeing of the Palestinian and Iranian people. Israel Project and the document’s author should be held liable for aiding and abetting violence.

    A lawsuit against Israel Project and that doc could get very complicated: to the extent that US Congressmen voted or in some other way acted in ways harmful to the Palestinian, Iranian, or Syrian, and also by extension the American people, as a result of the information suggested by that handbook; and if that information was conveyed to US Congressmen by persons representing Israel but who were not properly registered under the US FARA act, then all of those issues would have to be litigated, and Israel, the Israel Project, the manual’s author, and those unregistered agents who used it to influence — i.e. “aid and abet violence” against Iraq, Palestine, Iran, Syria, etc. would be required to make reparations to all of those people, by your logic.

    The American people would also have a claim against those parties who “aided and abetted violence” against third parties (i.e. Iraq), which caused the deaths of American personnel and harm to the economic wellbeing of the USA. That would be a whopping big claim for damages. How long do you think it would take Israel to come up with the money to pay all those claims?

  220. Harbinger says:

    You missed my point totally on Germany. Of course Germany’s pursuit of lebensraum was wrong. But Nazi Germany, a repeat aggressor and loser in wars (like Palestine and the Arab nations), had large areas of land taken from it after WWII that had been populated by Germans for many hundreds of years: East Prussia, Pomerania, and Silesia. These German lands were turned over to Poland. The German people inhabiting these lands were forced to emigrate to East or West Germany.

    Likewise, much if not most or even all of the ethnic cleansing that took place in Bosnia by Serbia and Bosnian Serbs against Bosnian Muslims has not been undone.

    Where is the obsessive outcry against Poland and Bosnian Serbs to restore these ethnically cleansed lands? Is it because Jews are not involved? Likely so.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  221. geokat62 says:

    Where is the obsessive outcry against Poland and Bosnian Serbs to restore these ethnically cleansed lands? Is it because Jews are not involved? Likely so.

    Likely not. I always get a kick whenever the defenders of the Zionist entity try to defend the indefensible.

    In the inimitable words of Bill Clinton: It’s the occupation, stupid! The Zionist entity has been brutally oppressing another people for almost 50 years, or if we listen to Miko Peled, almost 70 years:

    It’s important for people to stop talking about the occupation or the occupied territories.. as though they are limited parts of Palestine…. All of Israel is occupied Palestine, all of Israeli cities and towns are illegal settlements. And we have to start talking about it in those terms, otherwise we will never reach a solution, which relies on understanding this, and accepting the fact that we need to push for a transformation and the establishment of a democratic regime in Palestine.

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