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American Troops to Leave Germany: Is It Goodbye or Just Auf Wiedersehen?
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President Donald J. Trump participates in a bilateral meeting with the Chancellor of the Federal Republic of Germany Angela Merkel during the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) 70th anniversary meeting Wednesday, Dec. 4, 2019 in London. Credit: Official White House Photo by Shealah Craighead

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The continued presence of tens of thousands of American military personnel in Europe seventy-five years after the end of the Second World War is rarely questioned either by politicians or the mainstream media. Currently there is little recollection of how, after the war ended, soldiers from Britain, France, the U.S. and the Soviet Union occupied Germany, each in a designated zone. Germany’s capital Berlin was divided into four sectors, each with a foreign military occupying force. I was a part of that occupation force from 1968 through 1971, serving in the U.S. Army’s Berlin Brigade as part of the 430th Military Intelligence Detachment.

The initial intention to keep postwar Germany in check morphed into the Cold War with the Soviets. The Soviet sector of Berlin became the capital of communist East Germany while the U.S. led efforts to create a military union based in Western Europe that would resist further Russian expansion. That alliance became the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) in 1949, a structure that incorporated the newly minted Federal Republic of Germany, and the Soviets countered with the Warsaw Pact that included nearly all of Eastern Europe. Both the Organization and Pact were ostensibly defensive alliances and the U.S. active participation was intended to demonstrate American resolve to come to the aid of the Europeans. The Cold War between the two alliances continued until 1991 when the Soviet Union collapsed. Germany was reunited, the Berlin wall was torn down, the foreign troops went home and the city again became the country’s capital.

During my time in Germany the Cold War was decidedly hot, having relatively recently witnessed the Russian denial of Berlin’s occupied city status shared among the four victorious nations by building a wall and confronting U.S. forces at the new border crossing points. My recollection is that in 1970 there were more than 10,000 GIs in Berlin alone and about 200,000 more stationed in West Germany.

Today there are approximately 36,000 American soldiers and airmen based in a reunited Germany but President Donald Trump decided in early June to withdraw 9,500 of them and to also cap the total U.S. military presence in that country at 24,000, which would involve 2,500 more cuts and might go even deeper depending on what is eventually included in the numbers. Preliminary planning suggests that about 5,600 will be repositioned to other NATO countries, including Italy, Belgium and Poland, while 6,400 will be returned to the U.S., from which point they might go on to the Pacific theater to confront “Chinese ambitions.” Unlike previous Trump pronouncements on reductions in force in Afghanistan and Syria, neither of which has actually been achieved, this latest move regarding Germany appears to be serious.

As some of the soldiers that are being re-positioned elsewhere in Europe will undoubtedly be closer to the border with Russia, there should be no doubt but that the Kremlin is still the designated enemy. Whether Russia is an actual threat is questionable and many observers privately believe that NATO is an anachronism, kept going by the many statesmen and military establishments of the various countries that have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo.

In spite of the clearly diminished threat in Europe, NATO has expanded to 30 members, including most of the former communist states that made up the Warsaw Pact. The most recent acquisition was Montenegro in 2016, which contributed 2,400 soldiers to the NATO force. Since the demise of the Warsaw Pact, NATO has found work in bombing Serbia, destroying Libya and in helping in the unending task to train an Afghan army, tasks which were not envisioned when the treaty was signed in 1949.

Trump has also stated his intention to move the European Headquarters of U.S. forces from Stuttgart in Germany to Mons, near Brussels in Belgium. The move would seem to make some limited sense as NATO headquarters is also in Brussels, but there is also a political dimension to it. Trump has been sending the not unreasonable message that if the Europeans want more defense, they should pay for it themselves, though he has wrapped his proposal in his usual insulting and derogatory language. A wealthy Germany currently spends 1.1% of GDP on its military, far less than the 2% that NATO has declared to be a target to meet alliance commitments. That compares with the nearly 5% that the U.S. has been spending globally, inclusive of intelligence and national security costs.

Trump might actually have a reasonable U.S. perspective on the burden sharing issue, but the European concern is more focused on how Trump does what he does. For example, he announced the downsizing in June without informing any of America’s NATO partners. The Germans were surprised and pushed back immediately. German Foreign Minister Heiko Maas regretted the planned withdrawal, describing Berlin’s relationship with the Washington as “complicated.” Chancellor Angela Merkel was reportedly shocked. And Trump made matters worse last week when he tweeted “Germany pays Russia billions of dollars a year for Energy, and we are supposed to protect Germany from Russia” before maladroitly observing that “The United States has been taken advantage of for 25 years, both on trade and on the military. We are protecting Germany. So we’re reducing the force because they’re not paying their bill. It’s very simple: They’re delinquent. Very simple.”

The timing of the decision has also been questioned, with many observers believing that Trump deliberately staged the announcement to punish Merkel for refusing to attend a planned G-7 Summit in the U.S. that the president had been trying to arrange. Merkel argued that dealing with the consequences of the coronavirus made it difficult for her to leave home and the G-7 planning never got off the ground, which angered Trump, who wanted to demonstrate his global leadership in an election year.

Predictably, the Democrats and also some Republicans are piling on Trump over the decision. Joe Biden sees a “profound problem” in the withdrawal while Senator Bob Menendez of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee quipped “Champagne must be flowing freely this evening at the Kremlin.” Republican Mitt Romney declared the move to be “grave error…a slap in the face at a friend and ally when we should instead be drawing closer in our mutual commitment to deter Russian and Chinese aggression. The move may temporarily play well in domestic politics, but its consequences will be lasting and harmful to American interests.”

The limited reduction in force actually makes no sense if one believes that NATO itself should instead be terminated due to its lacking any credible threat from Russia or from anyone else. A recent opinion poll suggests that keeping U.S. troops in Germany is not considered desirable by the Germans themselves, only 15% of whom support their remaining on national security grounds. And moving troops to Belgium and Italy is going in the wrong direction if one actually considers that there is an active threat from Moscow.

Nor does moving soldiers from one country that is behind on its 2% “dues” to NATO to other countries that are likewise in arrears make any practical sense but for a president who feels personally affronted by a foreign leader and is choosing to react petulantly as punishment. The disruption to U.S. military facilities that currently provide support to elements in Africa and the Middle East will be considerable, and the move will also not be cost-free. According to the New York Times, “Repositioning the troops will cost several billion dollars. The withdrawal and shifting of forces is likely to take months, if not years.”

And, of course, the real kicker is that if Joe Biden is elected president in a little less than three months the whole planned move will be scrapped by the victorious and persistently warlike Democrats. No wonder Americans’ trust in the rationality of their government is at an all time low.

(Republished from American Herald Tribune by permission of author or representative)
 
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  1. RVBlake says:

    If we remove those elements in Africa and the Middle East, they will no longer need to be supported. Yeah, I know.

  2. All of Europe should tell the US to get the hell out.

    Make that the whole world.

  3. Americans are much better in the occupation business than the Russians. American troops are still stationed in Cuba and Philippines 120 years after the war that got them there. So 75 is not too bad, yet. The reason is that the Americans have created a special class of natives who are ideologically committed to American occupation forever, and other natives are being kept out of power. There were exceptions that a native succeeded to get to power without the US blessing, like Charles de Gaulle, but even he was deposed and the American troops came back to France under Sarkozy. It is almost impossible to rid of American troops. Vietnam did it, at a huge cost of millions dead. What is amazing that no American is horrified by that. In the USSR, people demonstrated and objected to their troops presence in Afghanistan, Hungary, Poland. French demonstrated and demanded to leave Vietnam and Algiers. Why there is no such sentiment in America, Philip?

    • Agree: Barr
    • Thanks: Ann Nonny Mouse
    • Replies: @Sir Launcelot Canning
  4. The Soviet sector of Berlin became the capital of communist East Germany.

    As much as the Western Allies might have liked to pretend they were running things, Berlin never stopped being the Capital of Germany.

    My recollection is that in 1970 there were more than 10,000 GIs in Berlin alone and about 200,000 more stationed in West Germany.

    When I passed through in the ’80s, there were seemingly tens of thousands crawling all over the Frankfurt/Main and Wiesbaden metroplex, and no shortage of locals telling me to speak English because they wanted to improve their skills. When I next revisited in 1999, there was no shortage of people telling me to speak German, that I was in Germany. This was before most of the troops were sent to cheaper basing farther “downrange.”

    Aside from keeping an eye on what the Germans are up to, it’s really hard to say what US forces in Germany are actually doing to bolster German security, especially now that there are large buffer states to the east to keep the Russians at bay.

    Trump is the pimp in chief. The opposition to acquiring energy from Russia seems less about safeguarding the interests of Germany and more about pimping more expensive LNG from the US and its ME “allies” who are in this business. Just like banning TikTok, which was starting to eat the lunch of FaceBag and other US tech giants in the space; ditto Huawei. If the US can’t compete, it obstruct, blocks, or destroys in the name of National Security.

    • Replies: @Realist
  5. After the fall of the Soviet Union, NATO bureaucrats should have been given certificates of service and sent home. The organization itself should have been honorably retired, then disbanded.

  6. Realist says:

    American Troops to Leave Germany

    Now get the rest the hell out of all foreign countries.

    • Agree: Majority of One
  7. Realist says:

    And, of course, the real kicker is that if Joe Biden is elected president in a little less than three months the whole planned move will be scrapped by the victorious and persistently warlike Democrats.

    The Republicans are if anything more hegemonic than the Democrats…but they are both two sides of the Deep State coin.

    • Replies: @Majority of One
  8. Realist says:
    @The Alarmist

    Trump is the pimp in chief. The opposition to acquiring energy from Russia seems less about safeguarding the interests of Germany and more about pimping more expensive LNG from the US and its ME “allies” who are in this business. Just like banning TikTok, which was starting to eat the lunch of FaceBag and other US tech giants in the space; ditto Huawei. If the US can’t compete, it obstruct, blocks, or destroys in the name of National Security.

    Excellents points…right on target.

  9. Anonymous[231] • Disclaimer says:

    They’re just moving east into Poland. So, most U.S. military troops and assets in Germany will remain there and U.S. military will expand into Poland and start to set up permanent bases there.

    https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/us-to-have-permanent-troop-presence-in-poland-as-defense-pact-agreed-637052

    US to have permanent troop presence in Poland as defense pact agreed

    The United States will establish a permanent military presence in Poland as it deploys around 1,000 additional US troops there, Poland’s Defense Ministry said on Friday.

    And the Polacks are thrilled with this. According to a recent Anatoly Karlin post Poland has seen a 14% decline in religion. And Poland, working so hard to become a favorite American vassal state, has embraced negrolatry with movie posters and ads with black people conspicuous in Warsaw. Dumb Polacks will be fertile ground for the Anglo-Zionist Empire’s values of 🏳️‍🌈🙍🏿‍♂️🧕.

    • Agree: Curmudgeon, nature
    • Replies: @Dumbo
    , @Hibernian
  10. Dumbo says:
    @Anonymous

    Great. So, more black soldiers to impregnate dumb Polack sluts.
    You’ve got to hand it to NigGloboHomo, they really know how to brainwash young people.

  11. The initial intention to keep postwar Germany in check morphed into the Cold War

    The intention was never to keep Germany in check, it was to brainwash Germans into believing 6 kagillion Red Sea Pedestrians were gassed in two car garages, so that they would pay for the creation of a shitty little country on the Mediterranean.

    That alliance became the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) in 1949, a structure that incorporated the newly minted Federal Republic of Germany,

    I think you mean that NATO created the Federal Republic of Germany, which is an occupation government.
    “The German Federal Constitutional Court itself, an organ of the Federal Republic of Germany, explicitly state in its judgment of 31.July.1973: “The German Reich still exists (BVerfGE 2, 266 (277); 3, 288 (319 f.); 5, 85 ( 126); 6, 309 (336, 363)), still has legal capacity (…)” ´but can not act at the moment due to a missing government´. ”
    https://operationdisclosure1.blogspot.com/2019/11/reader-post-thomas-anderson-legal.html

    This repeated a decision made by the German Federal Constitutional Court in 1956.

    • Replies: @Majority of One
  12. Chris Moore says: • Website

    ZOG (Marxist-Zionism) was supposed to occupy Germany forever. Now it can’t even keep the lights on in the States.

    ZOG needs to be thrown out everywhere, because is ruins whatever it touches. Literally. Find me a country that ZOG has touched that isn’t worse off. It doesn’t exist.

    The problem isn’t “whites.” The problem is Zoglodytes.

    • Replies: @Sir Launcelot Canning
  13. Anonymous[271] • Disclaimer says:

    Trump has been sending the not unreasonable message that if the Europeans want more defense, they should pay for it themselves, though he has wrapped his proposal in his usual insulting and derogatory language.

    Not unreasonable? Those weapons are overwhelmingly US-made so virtually all that money goes back to the US. Personally, I’m no fan of Merkel but no European country should be a satrapy to the second most jewed country on the planet (after Israel). How is that “reasonable”?

  14. Riiiiiiiiight, the US is leaving. I’ll believe it when I see it. Even if they leave, most will head to Poland.

  15. A friend called me this morning to report that he saw a train with some 50 plus Abrams tanks on flat cars. He did some research and determined that the US Marines are now in the process of mothballing their entire armored divisions.

    • Replies: @Piglet
    , @Alfa158
  16. Here’s another problem with the U.S. remaining in Germany; German taxes imposed on American Service Personnel for marrying a German National!

    It’s time for ALL U.S. troops to come home to American soil and rebuild the infrastructure while simultaneously halting the BLM (Bolschevik Lives Matter) and ANTIFA!

    TUCKER CARLSON FOR PRESIDENT 2020!!!!!

  17. Alden says:

    America is just pushing our bases in Europe further east. We’re establishing a permanent base in Poland. Allegedly will house only a thousand troops Ha ha. A thousand combat ready troops needs about 20 thousand support troops.

  18. The Allies not only defeated Germany and Japan militarily. They also cleansed the political and military echelon of people associated with the toxic aggressive ideologies that upset peace between nations (in addition to having exceedingly low aspirations for relations within nations). This helped set (West) Germany and Japan on a course not only of great economic and technical advancement, but also forged a durable partnership in the struggle against Soviet ambition (which although considerable, turned out to be not nearly as effectual or wild-assed as that of the regimes that previously controlled Germany and Japan).

    This is well known, and it highlights the notion that American (or “Western”) designs in Afghanistan and Iraq in 2003, and Libya in 2011, were not entirely unfounded as plausibly successful approaches for dealing with regimes that were obvious blemishes upon global civilization.

    The fact that success has been elusive suggests that Arabs (Muslims) are different, and in ways which are both flattering and unflattering, but mostly unflattering.

  19. What is the “threat” that has these countries together spending multi-trillions on the latest weaponry and careers in the armed forces? Is Russia a threat? Why?

    Why would Russia want to take over the whole of Europe? Russia holding all of Europe would be a nightmare, yes, but for who? For Russia!

    The rest of Europe would have a higher standard of living under Russian occupation because they would not have to maintain their hugely costly armed forces. And why wouldn’t Russia, the occupier, want their economies to thrive? Win, win!

    Back when armaments cost little there were no standing armies. Why can’t Europe disband all their forces? Oh, the American occupier. Get rid of that fiend first. There is no other threat!

    So, why? Why this absolute madness? What’s going on with all this military spending? Who benefits? Who’s behind it all?

    Nationalize the banks, folks.

    • Agree: Curmudgeon
  20. ‘… Unlike previous Trump pronouncements on reductions in force in Afghanistan and Syria, neither of which has actually been achieved, this latest move regarding Germany appears to be serious…’

    ? Why would Israel care how many troops we deploy in Germany?

    • Replies: @Piglet
  21. ‘…No wonder Americans’ trust in the rationality of their government is at an all time low.’

    I was going to say ‘on the bright side, it can’t go below zero’ — but then I realized, ‘why can’t it?’

    After all, the consensus could become that our government is actively plotting to destroy us.

    …purely hypothetically, of course.

  22. Hibernian says:
    @Anonymous

    Putting your use of an ethnic slur aside, a 14% decline in religion is nowhere near how much religion has declined in the West. True, if this happened in a short time, it’s concerning. The Poles want American military aid to counter Russia, not out of love for American culture.

    • Disagree: Majority of One
    • Replies: @dfordoom
  23. @Realist

    Both the Republicrats and the Demolicans are two arms of the same body, a Frankenstinian creation of the ruling financial elite. The parties are run through their central committees, a very Soviet concept. The role of the puppet regime in the District of Corruption is primarily that of global pitbull for the minions of highest finance.

    • Replies: @Realist
  24. All of these old Boomer dinosaurs on both sides of the Atlantic trying to keep the Cold War alive. Vote for people born before 1965 if you want yesterday’s solutions to today’s problems.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  25. @israel shamir

    American horrified by that right here. That’s one.

  26. @Curmudgeon

    There never has been a peace treaty between Germany and the allied powers of WWII. Thus, on a legal and diplomatic basis, Germany remains an occupied nation. Ditto, Japan and Italy. When nuclear-armed U$ forces leave Germany it might be said that they no longer are under alien occupation and by German law, still have an independent government.

  27. @Chris Moore

    Yeah but my fellow dumbshit whites have allowed it to happen.

  28. @04398436986

    The aggression against Libya and Gadhafi was a blemish against civilization. The leader of that now demolished state was setting a bad example by his intention to create a non-usury based economic system for ALL of Africa based on the gold and oil backed Libyan dinar. The Rothschild controlled French banking system had their panties in a knot over that scenario as the central banks of the Neo-colonial “Francophonie” would have lost their profitable hold over the economies of those quasi-independent nations.

    Much of Nato joined in on the devastation of the Libyan military as well as of the civilian infrastructure in a demolition project similar to that inflicted on Serbia. The scraps, bones and considerable oil wealth of Libya are currently being fought over by Sultan Erdogan of the Terrible Turks versus various nationalist elements. And by the way, whatever happened to Libya’s considerable gold reserves? Are they now safely stowed in a Swiss bank under the tender mercies of the Rothschild owned Bank of International Settlements?

    • Agree: Ann Nonny Mouse
    • Replies: @04398436986
    , @Anonymous
  29. Athena says:

    Merkel argued that dealing with the consequences of the coronavirus made it difficult for her to leave home and the G-7 planning never got off the ground

    Germany has the same problem aas Joe Biden, and the US-UK-Brussel (i.e. NATO) friends on the ”Kosovo issue”:

    “Kosovo Will Again be a Part of Serbia”

    ”The debate in the German Bundestag on the extension of the mandate of German Kosovo Force (KFOR) soldiers turned into a criticism of long-time Chancellor Angela Merkel and raised speculation that Berlin might adopt a different position on Kosovo. The opposition reminded Merkel that Germany participated in the war in Kosovo, and that KFOR, a multinational NATO “peacekeeping force” was on the same side as the terrorist “Kosovo Liberation Army”

    ”Since Kosovo made its illegal declaration of independence in 2008, it has become a ‘smugglers paradise’ for heroin and a hub for human trafficking, organ harvesting and arms trafficking, all under the watchful eye of KFOR. As of today, 15 countries have withdrawn their recognition of Kosovo as an independent country, meaning only 50% of countries in the world recognize the illegal entity.”

    ”This event in Germany is extremely important because it is a leading country that stands on a firm position that nothing will change on the Kosovo issue and pushes for Serbia to recognize the independence of Kosovo with the promise of EU membership. This debate in Germany now will certainly have an impact on Berlin’s policy, but not immediately – at least not while this ruling coalition, led by Merkel, is in power. Germany will take over the presidency of the Council of the European Union in July for a 6-month period and we can see how Merkel might navigate Kosovo considering the political climate is changing.”

    From:

    Germany’s Kosovo Policy Shift. Implications for Serbia and the EU
    https://www.globalresearch.ca/will-germany-kosovo-policy-shift-back-serbia-favor/5713293

    • Replies: @Majority of One
    , @Derer
  30. Piglet says:
    @Jim Bob Lassiter

    The Marines have never had armored divisions. Their largest tank units have been battalions, with one each assigned to the 1st, 2d and 4th (Reserve) divisions. As best I can tell, the 3d is a partial division with no tanks.

    As part of a Corps-wide force reorganization, the Marines are eliminating tank units, among others. The tanks themselves will likely be reallocated to the Army or sold to allied nations.

  31. Piglet says:
    @Colin Wright

    Forces in Germany can more quickly be deployed to the Mideast in support of Israel. Also, Ramstein AB in Germany serves as a stopover point for troops going to or coming from the Mideast.

  32. https://www.bitchute.com/video/GjZcT9DkXqr1/

    Good letter but Waters is also a dummy. He blames ethnocracies than imperialism.

    Zionist imperialism destroyed Palestine. What happened to the Palestinians is what is happening to white Britons under massive immigration. The Great Replacement.

    https://www.bitchute.com/video/91GjZ_lCdxs/

  33. @Sir Launcelot Canning

    ‘… Vote for people born before 1965 if you want yesterday’s solutions to today’s problems.’

    You say that as if today’s solutions to today’s problems would be an improvement.

    • Replies: @anarchyst
  34. Closing American Overseas Bases is something that I’ve researched for years. For those interested in the details, here is something from my blog:

    Aug 2, 2020 – Base Closings in Europe

    G2mil readers know that I’ve researched and wrote about the need to close half of American overseas military bases. This information is here: Overseas Base Closure List.
    http://www.g2mil.com/OBCL.htm

    Many have asked me to comment on President Trump’s recently announced plans to pull some troops out of Europe. This was a spun as punishing Germany for letting its military decline via funding cuts, but Germany had just defied the empire by completing a new natural gas pipeline to Russia, so the imperialists are retaliating.

    If Trump was serious about saving money and better positioning our military forces, he would have started this his first year in office, not four months before the elections. As a result, nothing will happen until after the elections, then even if reelected, Generals will stall action his last four years in office. They’ll happily spend more money on new facilities, but not close anything because bases belongs to them!

    Details are vague but I’ll review what I’ve read. Let’s start with Spangdahlem airbase. Trump’s plan follows my 2012 recommendation “Closing Spangdahlem”.
    http://www.g2mil.com/spangdahlem.htm

    Keeping an airbase open with 15,000 airmen, civilians, and family members for a single fighter squadron is insane; two other squadrons had been deactivated when the Cold war ended. The Air Force had announced plans to spend millions of dollars to move a refueling squadron to this base from England to justify its existence. Trump’s plan cancels this move and orders the single F-16 squadron to the Aviano airbase in Italy to join two other F-16 squadrons. Spang has horrible flying weather and no nearby aerial maneuver areas so training there is impossible.

    This simple move will save lots of money if the 52nd Wing headquarters and its support units are disbanded and the airbase is turned over to the Germans to operate. It would still be a NATO airbase available to American aircraft for operations, except Germany will have to hire several hundred people to operate and maintain the base. The US Air Force will shed some 4000 overhead positions and an equal number of civilian employees with this common sense move. If something happens to threaten central Europe in the future, F-16s from South Carolina can deploy to Spang within a week.

    This makes so much sense that Spang may close even if Trump loses the election or loses interest in this topic. The Air Force has been downsizing its air fleet for years and could just disband the squadron at Spang and distribute its F-16s to under-strength squadrons worldwide, to include the two at Aviano. Nevertheless, Spang bureaucrats have already announced they plan to keep their jobs and this airbase with no aircraft open.
    https://www.airforcemag.com/spangdahlem-loss-of-fighter-mission-doesnt-mean-the-end-of-the-base/

    • Thanks: Alden
    • Replies: @Carlton Meyer
  35. @Athena

    I await the day when Germany is freed from occupation by all foreign occupation forces which have been there since May of 1945. Once those troops are removed and Germany recovers its own power of total self-governance then the likes of Sauschwein Merkel will no longer be in operational power.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
  36. @Carlton Meyer

    Part II from my blog:

    Aug 3, 2020 – More on German Bases to Close

    Trump’s base downsizing plan for Germany mentions moving the AFRICOM headquarters. It was suppose to be a small 500-man command element spun off from the European Command that was temporarily based down the road at Kelley Barracks when created after the Cold War ended. AFRICOM never moved to the United States as planned because Army Generals enjoy tours in expensive Germany. It grew into a 2600-man headquarters that resulted in a multi-million dollar building boom around Kelley Barracks, paid for by American taxpayers. I recently did a video about AFRICOM taking over all of Africa.

    Building a new AFRICOM headquarters complex in Europe would be stupid. There are two options that make sense. Merge it into the big American headquarters complex near Naples, Italy, as I suggested in 2011. http://www.g2mil.com/africa.htm

    The other option is to downsize ARCENT and merge it into CENTCOM in Florida, then give its big new headquarters complex at Shaw AFB in South Carolina (pictured) to AFRICOM.

    I suggested this years ago to shed 2000 headquarters personnel, but Army Generals hate ideas to downsize or eliminate redundant senior headquarters.

    Merge ARCENT into CENTCOM

    People talk about headquarters fat, and “component” commands are the best example. When Congress forced the establishment of unified commands, each service kept a separate “component” command. A Unified Command J-3 does not control forces directly, but must route everything through unneeded service component command layers.

    For example, the Central Command covers the Middle East. For practical reasons, its headquarters is based in Florida with a forward headquarters in Qatar. However, the Army insists on having a huge separate “3rd Army” headquarters to pass messages from CENTCOM to major army units. It doesn’t like mixing with the cluster of Generals in Florida, so it built a new massive headquarters building in South Carolina. ARCENT/3rd Army should disappear or downsize to a General and a dozen staff and move into the main CENTCOM building in Florida and allow CENTCOM staff to directly control major army units.

    • Replies: @Derer
  37. @Majority of One

    a non-usury based economic system for ALL of Africa based on the gold and oil backed Libyan dinar

    This is crackpottery cooked up by deceivers eager to distract from the fact of an impending slaughter of tens or hundreds of thousands of destitute, bullied and bloodied Arabs; it’s crackpottery cooked up by deceivers with an agenda of piracy of one kind or another; it’s crackpottery endlessly repeated by people desperate to feel that they’re in on deep dark secrets, and who have never spent ten minutes learning about or thinking about what 100,000 bankers and investors and brokers and all kinds of other financial types (including regulators) do every single working day.. in Zurich, Paris, London, Moscow, Dubai, New York.. and I’m not saying all such people are noble and admirable.

    You could grow up, maybe starting tomorrow.

    • Replies: @Majority of One
    , @Malla
  38. Alfa158 says:
    @Jim Bob Lassiter

    The Army is also moving large numbers of Abrams back to Ft. Irwin in the Mohave Desert. They have had more than they needed for quite a while and periodically told Congress to stop buying them, but Congress kept buying because of local pork-barrel politics and a fear that once the plant was shut down no one would be able to re-start it. With shrinking military commitments they probably need even fewer now.

  39. @Majority of One

    I await the day when Germany is freed from occupation by all foreign occupation forces which have been there since May of 1945. Once those troops are removed and Germany recovers its own power of total self-governance then the likes of Sauschwein Merkel will no longer be in operational power.

    Yawn. Silliness.

    The occupation in the West ended in 1955. While the Cold War was going on Germany wasn’t as free to pursue their own policies as most nations. But with reunification and then the collapse of the Soviet Union Germany’s been free to do whatever it wants. To the extent it is bound, it is bound by it’s own desire to wrap itself in “Europe”.

    Merkel committed a quasi-genocide against the German people–acting against German and European law–waving in over a million invading foreigners in 2015-16. Since these are overwhelmingly reproductive age males, in a couple, years she created a nightmare of the magnitude of America’s “legacy of slavery”.

    And guess what … her “conservative” party couldn’t even boot her out and the German people returned her to power with a modestly reduced vote and governing coalition. And it’s not like they didn’t have an alternative that actually opposed globo-homo. They could have pushed Merkel out if conservatives had voted for AfD.

    If Germans want someone to blame for their joint going to hell … look in the mirror.

    • Troll: nature
    • Replies: @Majority of One
  40. Derer says:

    A cold war relic NATO is an instrument of American foreign policies and not European’s. It gives Pentagon aggressive/occupying escapades (that breaks the NATO own defensive pact statues) a convenient appearance of a collective effort. The European weaklings are useful idiots of the Washington ruling clique, they should reduced the cost share rather than increase it. Incidentally the dumb Polaks are ruled by the grip of “twin brother” to Washington backroom ruling clique.

    The American soldiers in Germany are not there to defend Germany – only naive would think so – but to clamp down on anti-Americanism in its embryo stage. Watch the Nord Stream 2 resolution.

    • Agree: Majority of One
  41. Derer says:
    @Carlton Meyer

    Merge it into the big American headquarters complex near Naples, Italy, as I suggested in 2011.

    Why there, it is too far and bad exchange rate, Portland Oregon would be much better place.

    • Agree: Majority of One
  42. Petermx says:

    “Trump has been sending the not unreasonable message that if the Europeans want more defense, they should pay for it themselves, though he has wrapped his proposal in his usual insulting and derogatory language. A wealthy Germany currently spends 1.1% of GDP on its military, far less than the 2% that NATO has declared to be a target to meet alliance commitments.” That is the question. I would really be interested in why the extreme left Maas, who could be described as a traitor and Merkel, who flooded Germany with 2 million uneducated Arabs, demonstrating how much she loved Germany, would be upset at American troops leaving Germany. Is it because they hate Germany or love it? First, most countries don’t pay their occupiers (you would think Trump and other Americans would know that) and second, most countries don’t get upset when their occupiers leave.

    It seems that memories fade fast as to how and why Americans came to occupy Germany. They joined the British and allied with the Bolsheviks against Germany, which made the Bolsheviks and Americans the leading powers when the war was over. Germany was officially an occupied country until 1955 when it was invited to join NATO. But when the argument arose as to whether Germany should unify in 1990 it was acknowledged that NATO was created “to keep the Russians out and the Germans down” and it was still serving that purpose. Furthermore, a castrated Germany with no armed forces with which Germany could threaten others is precisely what the British and Americans wanted. What year did that change I would be interested? Also, the very idea that Germany could defend itself was certainly never wanted. The idea of allowing Germany to have atomic bombs (they could certainly build them), which would be required against a nuclear armed USSR was considered insane. The British, French and Americans didn’t want the Germans to be able to defend themselves. Also, the Americans wanted military installations all over the world with which they can project their power, so don’t claim this is only being done to help others, the very ones you are occupying no less.

    • Agree: Majority of One
  43. Derer says:
    @Athena

    Kosovo theft (a part of the Pentagon sinister doctrine of encircling Russia with US military bases) was allowed by drunken Yeltsin. Putin justly retaliated by reclaiming Crimea. The East Ukraine being historically inhabited by 12m Russians will follow.

    • Replies: @Curmudgeon
  44. d dan says:

    Withdraw from Germany? LOL. More like Trump throwing tantrum against Merkel.

    I am sure 90% of Americans would like all troops to be withdrawn from everywhere, But since the country is a democracy, withdrawing of course, will not happen.

    There are also a lot of foreigners and foreign countries that want US to leave, e.g. Iraq parliament voted to ask US troop to leave. But since Trump is such a peace-loving anti-war President, he simply threatened to confiscated Iraqi assets in US.

  45. Confronting “Chinese ambitions” unfortunately will not end like the Cold War, peacefully. Blind conviction by those fomenting a Sino-American war ignore the pattern of history. https://www.ghostsofhistory.wordpress.com/

  46. Gast says:

    “During my time in Germany the Cold War was decidedly hot”

    Perhaps from your low-level intelligence officer perspective, but probably you knew better even then, and you certainly know better now. I think from the vantage point of the top players the Cold War was always some kind of hoax. This hoax should keep the minds of the Whites occupied (especially the Germans whose energy could be diverted into a cold civil war) and provide pretexts for interventions all over the world, all of them would bring more and more countries under the control of the jews. Perhaps the most important aspect of this hoax was the military build-up of Israel by the West, because it had to be “protected” from the Arab world, which would be “supported” by the Soviet Union (but of course, this support was never enough). As Russia today the Soviet Union was completely controlled by jews, as was its supposed antagonist. So the whole Cold War was a jewish hoax.

    Mr. Giraldi, I think you are a competent writer, but I am sure you are still connected to intelligence. So you feed us with well written disinformation.

    • Agree: nature
  47. @04398436986

    They also cleansed the political and military echelon of people associated with the toxic aggressive ideologies that upset peace between nations (in addition to having exceedingly low aspirations for relations within nations).

    Try reading some real history, not the victor’s narrative.

    • Agree: Majority of One
  48. @Derer

    Putin justly retaliated by reclaiming Crimea.

    When the USSR collapsed, Crimea voted to join Ukraine with special, somewhat independent status. When the coup d’etat took place in Kiev, Crimea voted to withdraw from Ukraine. It voted a second time to request to join the Russian Federation.
    While there is little doubt that there was some Russian assistance – primarily along the lines of preventing those perpetrating the coup d’etat from entering Crimea and staging a second coup, the reality is that it was driven by the people of Crimea. Putin didn’t “reclaim” Crimea, the Russian Duma voted to accept their request. Putin only signed the legislation into law.

    • Agree: Majority of One
    • Replies: @Derer
  49. “Today there are approximately 36,000 American soldiers and airmen based in a reunited Germany but President Donald Trump decided in early June to withdraw 9,500 of them and to also cap the total U.S.”

    uhhhh, i have to admit some folly here. I thought that the US still had more than 100k troops in the region. 36,000 is nothing. It’s almost a who cares. So what . . .

    I had not really examined the numbers for years despite discussing budgets for NATO. This withdrawal doesn’t mean did potatoes. I have been discussing US military might for years but somehow I have completely missed that our troop presence was but a smidge of what it once was. Certainly all the money we are spending there is not merely to support 36k troops.

    Amid rising tensions — one wonders if its enough.

    Oy.

    • Replies: @Majority of One
  50. Anonymous[271] • Disclaimer says:
    @Majority of One

    Little known fact: Qaddafi gave €50 million to (((Sarkozy’s))) presidential campaign in 2007.

    A few years later, French planes destroyed his convoy which led to his gruesome death.

  51. Moses says:

    Seriously, what are American soldiers still doing in Germany? The Germans are more than capable of defending themselves.

    Same for Japan and Korea for that matter. Those countries have plenty of ability.

    Somehow America survived for 150 years without permanent overseas garrisons in Europe and Asia.

    Bring all US troops home!

  52. @04398436986

    Looks like a kettle calling the pot cracked. You appear quite conversant with the world of investments and financial manipulations and like a cracked LP continue to gravitate along the same grooves…A disinformational specialist, perhaps?

    Blackrock, State Street and Vanguard are the current gatekeepers in your echo-chamber world. As for growing up, I have been a student of political matters since 1962 and over the years transitioned from a mere micro-political level, through macro and into mega-political understandings and now in my years of seniority have achieved at least a grundlage stage of meta-political realization.

    According to your nom de guerre, you are all about numbers–evidence of pure economic determinism–a fallacy dating back at least to the perambulations of Adam Smith.

  53. @AnotherDad

    Your perspective on occupation forces closely follows the official 1955 line. You are modestly well-informed, but not fully. The Allied powers of WWII have yet to sign a peace treaty with Germany and American troops still occupy that country. The conclusion should be obvious.

    The financial powers that be are utterly determined that Germany not go about its own business…thus they lack full sovereignty and remain under occupation forces under the puppet regime in the Di$trict of Corruption.

    Those forces owe obeisance to the Pentagram, which is dominated by brown-nosed 4-stars who are part of the WarDefense industry and will achieve their industry-granted golden parachutes as loyal minions to the financial elite, primary stockholders in the likes of Lockheed-Martin, the largest such firm on the planet. Controlling interest in L-M rests securely in the clutches of London bankers, who, in turn, are dominated by the Rothschild Crime Clan and to a lesser degree by the House of Battenberg/Mountbatten/”Windsor”.

  54. @EliteCommInc.

    “Enough”? We have no business staging troops in Germany or in any other allegedly independent country–most particularly in Europe. There is no threat of any significant sort to the nations of Europe–except, perhaps from the massive military under the command of “Sultan” Erdogan.

    The United $tates of America Corporation is a fully-owned subsidiary of international highest finance through their ownership of the “Federal” Reserve Bank Corporation. American sovereignty, though technically still in the hands of WE THE PEOPLE, was essentially dissolved by a series of legislative coups commencing with the unlawful passage of the 14th Amendment and the Act of 1871, which made the American people surety for Civil War indebtedness to London Bank$ters, primarily the Rothschild Crime Clan. More recently, our Bill of Rights was eviscerated via the wholly contra-constitutional Patriot Suppression Act under Bu$h the lesser.

  55. anarchyst says:
    @Colin Wright

    It is those of “the greatest generation” (WW2) who pushed the immigration act of 1965 and the failed civil-rights laws on us.
    In fact, the civil-rights laws were forced on us whites by no other than “greatest generation” President Eisenhower at the point of federal bayonets. Let’s not forget “supreme court justice” Thurgood Marshall who equated black preference with white dolls as proof of “racism”.
    Us “baby boomers” suffered as much, being denied our birthright by (failed) civil-rights (for some) and affirmative action policies. Those of us who were aware and cognizant of the travesties pushed upon us by “the greatest generation” were outnumbered and outmanned.
    The “chickens have come home to roost” with today’s minority arrogance, white dispossession and the uncontrolled flow of illegal immigrants.

    • Replies: @anon
  56. anon[421] • Disclaimer says:
    @anarchyst

    Many seem to forget that a large percentage of “the greatest generation” were immigrants or first generation Americans. My immigrant father was drafted — i.e. involuntarily made to fight — against the country where he was born.

    We Boomers were raised without learning / celebrating the culture that was our European heritage, and also without our parents being able, or willing, or perhaps forbidden to discuss the tragedy of their fighting in a war that split them from their heritage.

    I’m 100% in favor of Boomers

    • Replies: @anon
  57. Jews hate Russia. Jews resent Germans. Jews want US troops in Europe against Russia and to prevent a rise of an independent German military.

    But when it comes to Jewish Power, even the Dissident White goes into Occam’s Blindfold. Who, where, what?

  58. anon[421] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    For 95% of my life the concept of White never registered — I never thought of myself as White.
    White is not a culture, white does not have a language, or a set of myths.

    Ethnicities have cultures, they are specific and differentiated.

    I’m 100% in favor of Boomers celebrating and proclaiming their specific European ethnic heritage — loud and proud, like, “I’m a son of Ireland,” and “The proud blood of the German people runs in my veins.” and “We Germans . . . Irish . . . French . . . Italians, etc. have brought the best of our heritage to make this USA great” —

    THAT is ‘diversity.’

    Would luv to hear Trump identify various European ethnic groups in campaign speeches and praise them for their contributions to USA.

    to Priss Factor: Do Jews want to reclaim Poland as Theirs? Is that what is behind planting US troops on Polish soil, to make Poland Jewish again?

  59. “Enough”? We have no business staging troops in Germany or in any other allegedly independent country–most particularly in Europe. There is no threat of any significant sort to the nations of Europe–except, perhaps from the massive military under the command of “Sultan” Erdogan.

    Laughing.

    I think you are missing my point.

    36,000 troops is of no consequence for a major Russian invasion.

    Sure, sure, sure . . . I have made those arguments. But that is when I thought we still had a significant presence and wasting money. But we don’t. The current executives bid to appear as though he making good on some agenda falls flat when one considers the numbers.

    As for being there . . . 36k is not much there. But as we have an agreement with NATO and an active e presence — troops pr no troops — should a NATO state be attacked troops or no troops we are going in. A 36k presence is reasonable for any number of operations we engage in the region. When I was in a DOD educational system there — which was some time ago we still had more than 75k troops there. That was during the cold war era –for some incredibly loss reason I spoke as if that is the case. It is troublesome to me because up until five years ago, I was still coaching teams regarding the military and our size — I just don’t recall that the numbers were that low —-

    I am fairly confident that Europe can defend itself, but if we are going to end up in a fight in the region — a toe hold makes sense.

    Laughing Uhhhh this is no big deal — the numbers are not large enough.

    Though the question then becomes cost — is the actual cost those 36k and if not where is the other x billions going.

    https://www.factcheck.org/2016/04/u-s-foreign-military-support/

    Simply —- it really isn’t that a bog. By all appearances we have been withdrawn troops gradually since the end of the cold war.

    If the executive wants to do something significant regarding security policy he should build the wall . . .

    • Replies: @Majority of One
  60. Now that the Rothschild Reich has thoroughly de-Christianized and amerzionized the 🐑Jerkman🐑sheeple and is establishing an 👮 Afro-Moslem 👮migrant occupation force throughout western Europe, both Comrades Trumpsky and Kommisar Merkillary have decided that the time is right to zogify all of Eastern Europe. The Zionist-Communist-Masonic -ew World Order marches relentlessly onward bringing democracy to the world one bomb at a time. Welcome to the genocidal (AI-Internet-5G-Robot- Bio-Cyber Techno Terror Smart Cities) Global Gulag, Zooropa! THE TRIUMPH OF THE ZIONIST WILL.

  61. @EliteCommInc.

    Barf and garbage. “A major Russian invasion”. To some degree that might have rung true as recently as possibly the early ’70’s. That’s nearly 50 years ago. Russian military adventurism essentially halted after the reign of Catherine the Great, a German born princess who married the rather hapless Tsarevitch and removed him from the scene shortly after his accession. Her conquests were largely against the Terrible Turks and the terroristic Tartars. Following her reign, Imperial Russia got on the Europe-wide bandwagon and expanded their rule eastwards and southeastwards into the Caucasus nations as well as into the Turko-Islamic “Stans.”

    Russian expansionism then essentially ceased under their good Tsar, Alexander II, who also freed the serfs the year before his colleague Abraham Lincoln freed the slaves. Since his reign, Russia’s military power has been far more reactive than proactive.

    I am always cynical and suspicious when anyone demonizes Russia. Such individuals are either victims of mindfuck propaganda memes OR are connected to the Deep State or to the little man behind the curtain who runs the electronic lightshow.

    • Replies: @Ann Nonny Mouse
  62. Derer says:
    @Curmudgeon

    And if Putin would not sign? You are unnecessary splitting hair…president has final word and president is in charge of foreign policies. Equally it was president Yeltsin that let NATO to put military base in Kosovo.

  63. Malla says:

    Maybe Trump being a half German American, is a German plant, to finally free Germany from American occupation since WW2. Maybe all that, “build the wall, threaten China, threaten Iran, get jobs back, Make America Great Again” etc… was the side show, so that nobody became suspicious of his real motive. This is what he became President for, to finally end Allied occupation of his ancestral homeland.
    Smart move, Deutschland!!!

  64. Malla says:
    @04398436986

    Even more interesting than the Rothies. You know Jewish festival of Purim?? The day, jews celebrate the death of their enemies especially the Persian anti-Zio nationalist Hamman and his sons?

    http://survincity.com/2010/07/sarkozy-gaddafi-and-purim/
    Sarkozy, Gaddafi and Purim

    “In 2009, during the Extraordinary Summit of the African Union, Muammar Gaddafi said that “all military conflicts on the African continent is Israel”
    AFP notes that Gaddafi has repeatedly issued strident anti-Israeli statements, in particular, it offered to all member countries of the African Union to break off diplomatic relations with Israel, because, according to Gaddafi, the Israeli authorities are nothing more than a “gang.”

    “Or look at Purim. We celebrate nothing more than a mass killing of tens of thousands of men, women and children, which we did not like.
    But Haman was executed eleven months before Purim, so that the threat is long past. No, we’re just celebrating the massacre of enemies, rather than just getting rid ”


    So the slaughter of Gaddafi during the Jewish holiday with a very bright light of the moon looks very symbolic. You could even call this ritual slaughter.

    Incidentally, the U.S. attack on Iraq in 2003, also took place during this Jewish holiday.”

    • Replies: @04398436986
  65. “I am always cynical and suspicious when anyone demonizes Russia. Such individuals are either victims of mindfuck propaganda memes OR are connected to the Deep State or to the little man behind the curtain who runs the electronic lightshow.’

    Oy.

    I hate to be the bearer of bad news . . . Russia has been thoroughly demonized and the current executive has agreed. I don’t know what to tell you. I would that the executive had been made of tougher stuff and not signed the intell report that stated without equivxation —

    that means with a maybe, a coulda , possibly might have . . . .

    that

    1. Russia sabotaged the US election in 2016

    2. that have actively sought o interfere in the democratic process in the US in 2016 (an act if war)

    3. those efforts are ongoing

    4. that Russia engaged in murder of citizens in allied nations (an act if war by the way)

    5. that Russia attempted to murder residents visiting in the sovereign territories of our allies

    5. has Russia to sabotage the elections process in the states of or allies.

    Now you and I might have preferred some other rendering. You and I might no have agreed. You and I might have said there’s no evidence of that and you I might be in full disagreement. But at the the end of the day, the executive responsible for the nation’s security and defense agreed that the above observations are factual. Given that the current executive is going to have respond accordingly — Russia is an enemy of the US and seeks her hard. Period. End of discussion. The current executive cannot magically make that poly intel disappear one would that he could, but he cannot.

    And Pres. Putin knows it. An Pres Putin also knows that he has no intention of admitting that he ordered those activities as he had made clear. He also may know that the current executive did so as a matter of politics. And I have no doubt that Pres Putin decided then that the current executive ‘s open attempts to reconfigure the relationship between Russia and the US under that cloud was nil to impossible because it would require some kind of reckoning “mea culpa” from the Russian Pres. And The Russian Pres. has already stated he did no such thing.

    I am not going to mine words. Based on this executives own choices — Russia is an enemy of the US and her allies.

    That debate that occurred in the first months of this executives tenure settled the demonization of Russia. and the democrats would love for the pres. to make overtures of hand holding minus any “mea culps’ —

    The opponents that this executive beat in the election effectively deconstructed any reconciliation with Russia. And in so doing crashed a major component of the then president’s foreign policy.

    Leaving 36k troops in Germany — a nonissue. And based on the intel report, one would be foolish to think that Russia is a nonthreat.

    Demonizing Russia . . . . I am not sure where you have been but that

    done and done.

  66. vot tak says:

    Off you go, then! Most Germans in favor of US troops’ pull-out from their country – poll

    https://www.rt.com/news/497054-germany-us-troops-withdrawl-trump/

    “Around 47 percent of participants in research conducted by pollster YouGov on behalf of DPA news agency, said they were in favor of the Pentagon’s decision to pull out almost 12,000 American soldiers from Germany.
    Moreover, one in four surveyed Germans insisted that the US military presence in the country should be reduced to zero.

    Only 28 percent thought that the 36,000-strong contingent must remain as it is, while four percent said that they wanted more American soldiers. The others declined to answer.

    The views of the German public on the issue are in sharp contrast with those of the country’s politicians. Five out of six parliamentary groups in the Bundestag have been opposing the withdrawal, with only the Left Party saying that the Americans must leave completely.”

  67. “Moreover, one in four surveyed Germans insisted that the US military presence in the country should be reduced to zero.”

    So 75% disagree. look I am not arguing about whether to keep troops in or not. Seems prudent based on the intel and the executives support for the same. The real issue is that 36 or 9 thousand troops doesn’t amount to much is a stop gap in support of Europe against a possible invasion by the Russians, though I would contend that 36k could do more slowing than 9k.

    I take it your case is but flailing in the wind because in the best case you present it’s roughly an even split with more than 50% disapproving.

    Off you went and off you are.

    • Replies: @vot tak
  68. @Malla

    There are no shortcuts: Arab, Persian, Turkish societies, all need to grow up intellectually and emotionally to make nations they like living in, to be governed by citizen consent rather than terror, to embrace well lived lives rather than death cults and juvenile fantasies of aggression and domination.

    It’s happening, albeit quite slowly.

    We are patient.

    View post on imgur.com

    • Replies: @Malla
  69. vot tak says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Actually I was not making any case at all, simply posting an article about a poll.

    Now if I were to speculate what the poll means, I would say roughly half of Germans would like u.s. occupying troop levels reduced or the troops removed altogether. While roughly one third polled were ok with the present numbers there, or would like to see more occupying their country.

  70. Malla says:
    @04398436986

    Ya sure, the ME will eventually evolve nice societies and all that. But what does that have to do with the mysterious fact that these regimes are attacked by Western countries on the Jewish festival of Purim all the time???

  71. “Now if I were to speculate what the poll means, I would say roughly half of Germans would like u.s. occupying troop levels reduced or the troops removed altogether. While roughly one third polled were ok with the present numbers there, or would like to see more occupying their country.’

    Excuse me, if i read more than you intended. But I am unclear why you would need to speculate — your stats tell the story or at least provide some clear direction.

  72. @Majority of One

    Right. Your “victims of mindfuck propaganda” is a good description of those worms.

  73. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Hibernian

    a 14% decline in religion is nowhere near how much religion has declined in the West. True, if this happened in a short time, it’s concerning.

    It’s more than concerning. The idea that eastern Europe is going to remain a bastion of Christianity is now in tatters. Within a very few years (probably a single generation) eastern Europe will be culturally indistinguishable from western Europe – thoroughly secular, thoroughly Pozzed, with Gay Pride Marches every weekend, homosexual marriage and transexual bathroom rights and all the other benefits of American cultural hegemony.

    The survival of Christianity in eastern Europe was always an illusion. Christianity could survive communism but it cannot survive globalist capitalism. Old people who clung to their Christian faith under the communists are still religious but the young have already largely abandoned Christianity. Once those old people die off the churches will be empty. They’ll be turned into museums, or restaurants.

    Christianity is as doomed in eastern Europe as it is in the West. No amount of wishful thinking can change that.

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