The Unz Review • An Alternative Media Selection$
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 BlogviewPepe Escobar Archive
The Moskva Riddle
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • B
Show CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeThanksLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Thanks, LOL, or Troll with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used three times during any eight hour period.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

Neither NATO nor Russia is telling us what really happened with the Moskva, the legendary admiral ship of the Black Sea fleet.

NATO because in theory, they know. Moscow, for its part, made it clear they are not saying anything until they can be sure what happened.

One thing is certain. If the Russian Ministry of Defense finds out that NATO did it, they will let loose all the dogs from Hell on NATO, as in “asymmetrical, lethal and fast”.

On Moskva’s location: it was positioned near one of 3 drilling rigs, used for monitoring a whole sector of the Black Sea with hydrophones and NEVA-BS radar, the most westward one, BK-2 Odessa, approximately 66 km northeast from Snake Island. The whole thing was integrated in the regional monitoring systems. As in everything, literally, was monitored: ships, low flying targets, smaller echoes, even the bobbing head of an unsuspecting swimmer.

So there was a quite slim chance that anything – not to mention subsonic Neptune missiles and Bayraktar drones – could have slipped through this aerial net.

So what could have possibly happened?

It could have been some kind of underwater drone, released either from some sneaky sub, or by a SBS team, coming from the western coast, with a stopover at Snake Island. Then that drone somehow managed to drill itself through the Moskva’s hull from below – and exploded its payload inside.

What follows comes from a top source in Brussels: serious, trustworthy, proven record spanning nearly two decades. Yet he may be just spreading disinformation. Or bragging. Or that may be rock solid intel.

Before we start, we should point out it’s hard to believe the Neptune/Bayraktar fairytale angle. After all, as we’ve seen, the Russian fleet had established a multidimensional surveillance/defense layer in the direction of Odessa.

The Moskva was near Odessa, closer to Romania. A year ago, the source maintains, a new phased array locator was installed on it: the illumination range is 500 km. According to the standard Ukrainian narrative, first the Moskva was hit by a drone, and the locators and antennas were smashed. The Moskva was half blind.

Then – according to the Ukrainian narrative – they launched two Neptune cruise missiles from the shore. Guidance was carried out by NATO’s Orion, which was hanging over Romania. The missiles zoomed in on the ship with the homing heads turned off, so that the radiation beam would not be detected.

So we have guidance by NATO’s Orion, transmitting the exact coordinates, leading to two hits, and subsequent detonation of ammunition (that’s the part acknowledged by the Russian Ministry of Defense).

A strategic hit

The Moskva was on combat duty 100-120 km away from Odessa – controlling the airspace within a radius of 250-300 km. So in fact it was ensuring the overlap of the southern half of Moldova, the space from Izmail to Odessa and part of Romania (including the port of Constanta).

Its positioning could not be more strategic. Moskva was interfering with NATO’s covert transfer of military aircraft (helicopters and fighter jets) from Romania to Ukraine. It was being watched 24/7. NATO air reconnaissance was totally on it.

As the Moskva “killer”, NATO may have not chosen the Neptune, as spread by Ukrainian propaganda; the source points to the fifth-generation NSM PKR (Naval Strike Missile, with a range of 185 km, developed by Norway and the Americans.)

He describes the NSM as “able to reach the target along a programmed route thanks to the GPS-adjusted INS, independently find the target by flying up to it at an altitude of 3-5 meters. When reaching the target, the NSM maneuvers and deploys electronic interference. A highly sensitive thermal imager is used as a homing system, which independently determines the most vulnerable places of the target ship.”

As a direct consequence of hitting the Moskva, NATO managed to reopen an air corridor for the transfer of aircraft to the airfields of Chernivtsi, Transcarpathian and Ivano-Frankivsk regions.

In parallel, after the destruction of the Moskva, the Black Sea Fleet, according to the source, “no longer seems to have a ship equipped with a long-range anti-aircraft missile system”. Of course a three-band radar Sky-M system remains in play in Crimea, capable of tracking all air targets at a range of up to 600 km. One wonders whether this is enough for all Russian purposes.

So what do we really have here? Fantasy or reality? There was only one way to know.

I ran the info past the inestimable Andrei Martyanov, who knew the Moskva “as Slava in 1981 when she was afloat in the Northern Bay of Sevastopol and my class which was at first summer practice on board of old cruiser Dzerzhinsky was given an extensive introduction to her. So, she was an old lady and it is too bad that she had to finish her long life this way and at this time.”

Martyanov, once again, was the consummate professional, stressing no one, at this stage, really knows what happened. But he made some crucial points: “Per NSM (if we accept this version), even with its Low Observability and GPS guidance under normal (that is sea up to state 5-6) and normal radio-permeability, even the Moskva’s old frigate radar would have seen those missiles in distances of tens of kilometers, somewhere between 15-20 for sure. NSM, as any NATO anti-shipping missile, are subsonic, with their velocity roughly 300 meters per second. That leaves, even in a 15 kilometer range, 45 seconds to detect track and develop a firing solution for whatever ‘on duty’ AD complex. More than enough reaction time.”

ORDER IT NOW

Martyanov also stresses, “it is impossible to hide the external impact of the anti-shipping missile – one will immediately know what hit the ship. Moreover, to hit and sink such a target as the Moskva one has to launch a salvo and not only two missiles, likely 3-4 at least. In this case, Russia would know who attacked Moskva. Does NATO know? I am positive this event has NATO written all over it, if it is not an internal sabotage which absolutely cannot be excluded at this stage. I am sure if Nebo was operational it would have seen the salvo.”

Which brings us to the inevitable clincher: “If NATO was involved, I am sure we will see some retaliation, after all, as I am on record all the time, US bases in Middle East and elsewhere are nothing more than fat prestigious targets.”

So get ready: something lethally “asymmetrical” may be about to pop up.

(Republished from Strategic Culture Foundation by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: American Military, NATO, Russia, Ukraine 
Hide 259 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
    []
  1. Russia needs to take this opportunity to disintegrate NATO and get the US out of Europe. Ukraine is only the start.

    Turn off Europe’s source of energy to put confusion and domestic issues front and center for the airheads in Brussels.

    Russia should take out everything in Syria that isn’t Syrian or Russian for a start. I’m certain they can come up with additional targets. If I were in charge, there’d be a sub of DC waiting for a shipment of gold to make up for the bullshit US currency the US stole along with its usual cargo of missiles.

    • Agree: Humbert Humbert, Realist
    • Replies: @JWalters
    , @SPRiggs
  2. On the next day after the cruiser had been hit the Russians announced that the plant in Kiev at which the Neptune missiles were manufactured was demolished. It points out that the notion of Ukrainian anti-ship missiles hit is plausible. The Russians might have reacted and retaliated hitting the plant with Kalibr strike.

    Russian strike hits missile unit
    https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220415-russian-strike-hits-missile-unit-outside-kyiv-afp

    Russia had earlier announced it had hit the factory using Kalibr sea-based long-range missiles. The strike came a day after Ukraine claimed it had destroyed Russia’s Moskva warship, which Moscow later said had sunk. According to a statement on Ukraine’s state weapons manufacturer Ukroboronprom website, the Vizar factory produced Neptune missiles.

    Andrei Sizov, a 47-year-old owner of a nearby wood workshop, said the strikes came at night. “Around 1:30 am, my security guard called me because there was an air strike,” he told AFP. “There were five hits. My employee was in the office and got thrown off his feet by the blast.” He believes Russia was taking revenge for the Moskva warship, saying: “They are making us pay for destroying the Moskva.”

    • Agree: Horus
  3. If the Americans did orchestrate the actions suggested then their capability is impressive. And the Russians look like chumps. If they figure it out, the Russians will do nothing. The US and EU continually thumps Russia and the Kremlin issues words in response. Excepting the Ukraine where, considering the imbalance of forces, Russia shows it does not have the steel of the USSR.

    • Agree: Fran Taubman
    • Disagree: Badger Down
  4. Aliens did it with their directed energy weapons. They seem to target Russian rocket/missile capabilities, as fires are multiplying in Russia in places connected to Russian missile forces, and only in those places: Tver, Briansk…

    “Moskva” was a legitimate target in this sense as Russians are trying to salvage something from it, which denies it was just an obsolete ship used as a movable S-300 complex. What is being salvaged? Nuclear warheads?

    But even Russians prefer Ukrainian “Neptune” missiles than a blow by angels (to use the language of the Bible), so they will never tell you the truth. And remember that USA originally denied Ukies this scoring.
    They know Ukies could not and the later story is a cover story.

  5. “So get ready: something lethally “asymmetrical” may be about to pop up.”

    Pepe, for once I would like to see something symmetrical happen … lethal and fast because all the rest is hot air!

  6. MLK says:

    The green light to sink this ship had to be made by the USG. Not NATO. Not one of the nearby NATO members. And most certainly not Ukraine.

    The question is what it is paired with behind the curtain. Is it payback by the USM for something already on the books or a new line item that will be responded to commensurately by Russia in as public a way, even if deniable as here.

    The worst interpretation is that the neocon filth really have the means in place to fulfill their dream of getting the US and Russia at war with each other. Not through proxies, nor at all contained, but all out madness.

    So get ready: something lethally “asymmetrical” may be about to pop up.

    Thus this is the least worst outcome in the instant context.

    Ominously, the world saw in real time that whomever is handling the Potemkin Village Idiot in the White House can have whatever words they choose come out of his mouth. That was the clear message of having him read Regime Change off of his teleprompter in Poland.

  7. Not precisely connected with the Moskva riddle – but another riddle is based on the fact that Putin correctly said modern Ukraine is an artificial entity formed by the Soviets, ie – comprised of Ukraine proper, the Russian East, the Polish west around Lviv, and bits of Romania and Hungary.
    It is rumoured / reported that many Polish Generals want to use the opportunity of a weakened Ukranian army to seize back polish territory, bear in mind that the Ukranian Banderists/neo-nazis in addition to hating Russians, also hate Poles, and massacred them during WW2.
    The question is – will they do it under the pretence of a “peacekeeping” mission (which may very well be valid if the Banderists turn on Poles living in Ukraine) ?, and will the Hungarians and Romanians do something similar ?

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @Jeff Davis
  8. Wokechoke says:

    The interesting moment will be the targeting of the Dneiper bridges. Such destruction could trigger tit for tat bridges elsewhere. The oil depots getting smashed are an interesting escalation too. So fun to see Greens cheer on the Bryansk fires.

  9. Spanky says:

    The Ukros are crowing about a successful strike against Russia, yet the U.S. / NATO, which has been loudly trumpeting almost all other Ukro propaganda, is strangely muted about this. And the Russians are (apparently) playing coy about what happened aboard the Moskva…

    There has been online commentary to the effect that U.S. / NATO forces provided Ukro forces with the position of Moskva and, possibly, missile guidance using NATO equipment. And now this. In either case, these are acts of war. Perhaps both Russia and the U.S. / NATO are attempting to back away, for now at least, from all that that implies.

    FWIW, are there any photos of the Moskva available, taken after the incident, which clearly show the entirety of its hull, both port and starboard, stem to stern?

    • Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
  10. @Here Be Dragon

    Or Russia decided to destroy the factory because it was making Neptune missiles.

  11. TG says:

    Hard for us to say, of course, what with the near-total corruption of the western so-called press. But, some observations:

    1. Defending against missiles is harder than it is in the movies or glossy press releases. Anti-missile defenses are finicky beasts, a lot has to work perfectly, and things leak through. If the system were down for maintenance, or a technician pushed the wrong button, or it was shut down to avoid hitting a passing friendly, or whatever, well, that can be that. Being distracted by a bunch of drones won’t help. The record of anti-ship-missile systems is not perfect. And even subsonic drones are moving pretty damned fast, 600 mph 100 feet off sea level comes in over the horizon in not a lot of time.

    2. Did the western forces actually do it themselves? No idea. But it seems likely that the Ukrainians had real-time satellite intelligence from the Americans, so they wouldn’t have needed to use their own radars, just program in the coordinates and go. The missiles could also therefore fly silent until the last moment, not using their radars except in the terminal phase. And if the Americans were monitoring the emissions from the ship, they could tell the Ukrainians if the anti-missile systems were offline or engaged with other targets, giving them the perfect opportunity.

  12. Z-man says:

    I heard that the Ukrainians or whoever flooded, sorry for the unintentional pun, the airspace around the Moskova with drones which overwhelmed the defensive systems and a couple of missiles were able to penetrate the defenses and cripple the ship. 30 dead as far as I know.

    • Replies: @GMC
  13. Anonymous[343] • Disclaimer says:
    @John Thurloe

    Agree, the U.S. Secretary of Defense and Secretary of State announce they’re going to Kiev and then yesterday travel to Kiev (on Orthodox Easter) and tell Zelensky that the U.S. will directly provide Ukraine with a half-billion dollars of weapons to kill Russians.

    They could’ve called Zelensky to let him know but it was meant to humiliate Putin, that U.S. laughs at his pre-invasion threat, and to signal how impotent Russia really is even on her doorstep.

    Expect to see a partitioned Russia within 10 years and U.S. troops occupying Russian oil fields.

  14. Notsofast says:

    ….. lethally asymmetrical…..might not even come from the russians, irans proxies are stepping up attacks on u.s. supply lines in iraq and syria. just the other day in iraq four nato members were hit with a double ied attack. the pathetic state department is begging iran not to retaliate for solemanis murder, of course iran refused. it will be interesting to see if any of the captured manpads from ukraine end up in iraq and syria.

    • Replies: @P.O.W
  15. nsa says:

    Barstool Commander NSA here. The 2003 Iraq attack is the blueprint for quickly taking down a much weaker enemy. The complete power grid was knocked out the first day casting Baghdad into total darkness. . This requires less than 100 missiles attacks on the major substations in the case of Ukraine or Taiwan. No modern society functions at all in the dark. No communications. No cable. No internet. No online shopping. No free porn. No keeping up with friends on cuntbook. No trivial 200 text messages a day. Minimal damage to actual infrastructure. Game over….the only thing left to negotiate is the terms of surrender.

  16. Mr. Hack says:

    Wasn’t the original Russian response to the downing of their flagship that it was caused by some kind of a fire caused somewhere on the ship due to some sort of a malfunction? Why not take them at their word? I came up with this scenario recently at another blogsite, and nobody there challenged its veracity. Russian internal human error, anybody?:

    One of the sailors stepped out for a smoke and instead of throwing over the cigarette butt into the sea, he decided put it out on the shiny new deck…and voila a fire appeared that took down a \$750,000,000 cruiser ship. The flagship of the fleet! 🙂

    You kremlin stooges are incorrigible!

    • Replies: @TG
  17. or by a SBS team

    Thanks for an interesting review of this event.
    Of course it’s speculation, albeit informed speculation, and the field is narrowing to within NATO. My own “most likely” vote is the SAS/SBS from Perfidious Albion who specialise in this sneak sabotage type of operation.

    I disagree that retaliation should be aimed at USUK in the ME, although imho it would be beneficial all round to send a quiet diplomatic message to Oman to cease their long-term assistance to USUK forces bombarding Yemen with their ISIS allies.
    Imho a direct strike at the head of the snake is long overdue. SAS HQ is in Hereford, English west Midlands bordering Wales. The Queen of England is about to celebrate a Jubilee at the beginning of June. As good a date as any perhaps …

    Or maybe Mr Rothschild’s English mansion, also well-known …

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Jeff Davis
  18. @Gordon Bennett

    Can you fault this view of what happens when you brainwash people with the sort of views you seem to accept?

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/06/ukraine-mass-murder-hate-speech-soviet/629629/

    • Disagree: Badger Down
    • Replies: @mulga mumblebrain
  19. @John Thurloe

    If the Americans did orchestrate the actions suggested then their capability is impressive. And the Russians look like chumps. If they figure it out, the Russians will do nothing.

    That is true.

    Although I wouldn’t say that an alleged attack on the 40-year old ship is in particular impressive. It was equipped with outdated gear most of which was made in the 1980’s. But I agree that the Russians will do nothing in response, even if it is confirmed that NATO or the US did it.

    The US and EU continually thumps Russia and the Kremlin issues words in response. Excepting the Ukraine where, considering the imbalance of forces, Russia shows it does not have the steel of the USSR.

    True again.

    Russia is a liberal capitalist state incapable to mobilize its own government and population. The USSR was an elephant, and the Russian Federation is a bear. A bear is a stupid animal which prefers to sleep when the weather ain’t good, and so does Russia. And the Russians are pretty dumb too.

    • Disagree: Drapetomaniac
  20. TG says:
    @Mr. Hack

    Very possible, of course. Remember how just recently the multi-billion-dollar assault ship USS Bonhomme Richard was scrapped after a sailor lit a fire. But apparently, it wasn’t so much the original fire that did the damage, as incompetent damage control responses.

    They may be made of metal and surrounded by water, but these big warships are a lot more vulnerable to fire than you might think.

    • Replies: @Sollipsist
    , @Corrupt
  21. The message is clear: NATO will pump up the volume until Russia eventually gives in. Each and every Ukie cannon, tank, truck or other piece of equipment destroyed will be replaced quickly by the West, and for every Ukie soldier KIA, some mercenary will be sent.
    I guess after razing Ukraine to the ground the US plutocrats will then cheaply buy up the real estate and have the Germans, dumb as ever, pay billions for reconstruction, which they will do gladly. Because of, you know, the thing.

    • LOL: GMC
    • Replies: @MarkU
  22. A123 says: • Website

    Can someone explain how two undersized Neptune warheads could destroy a Heavy Cruiser? Even with pinpoint accuracy the story remains highly implausible.

    The original reports were about an onboard issue that created a fire in munitions storage. This is consistent with the one picture we have seen. NATO is relatively silent because they concur with the initial Russian assessment, “The Moskva was lost due to Operator Error. The U.S. Navy recently rendered a submarine permanently unuseable due to operator error, so it is not a story they particularly want to trumpet.

    PEACE 😇

  23. Mefobills says:
    @nsa

    No modern society functions at all in the dark. No communications. No cable. No internet. No online shopping. No free porn.

    Your right of course. Russia sucks at informational/cognitive war in the new hybrid war space. They have only just recently been able to counter false flags, as was shown in Kazakhstan. The CSTO had to put boots on the ground. But, the CSTO had to have some sort of decent intel to interdict the false flag operations.

    https://www.sott.net/article/463073-Pepe-Escobar-After-Kazakhstan-the-color-revolution-era-is-over

    The breakdown of the messy Kazakh op necessarily starts with the usual suspects: the US Deep State, which all but “sang” its strategy in a 2019 RAND corporation report, Extending Russia. Chapter 4, on “geopolitical measures”, details everything from “providing lethal aid to Ukraine”, “promoting regime change in Belarus”, and “increasing support for Syrian rebels” – all major fails – to “reducing Russian influence in Central Asia.”

    https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR3063.html

    So, even with the Rand report broadcasting Globo Homo’s intentions, Russia still is Oafish in the information space.

    Here is Glazyev also predicting the hybrid information war, and how it will shape the future as he saw it back in 2015.

    https://mronline.org/2022/04/16/russias-sergey-glazyev-introduces-the-new-global-financial-system/

    Glazyev: My book, The Last World War, that I already mentioned, which was published as far back as 2015, argued that the likelihood of this happening eventually is very high. In this hybrid war, economic warfare and informational/cognitive warfare are key theaters of conflict. On both of these fronts, the U.S. and NATO countries have overwhelming superiority and I did not have any doubt that they would take full advantage of this in due course.

    Globo Homo also turns inward on its own people with false flag, as the Jan 06 “insurrection shows” where the crowd is seeded with operatives.

    This new world is kind of like a blob.

  24. You-know-who has been perpetrating sabotage operations on the Iranian nuclear program and the IRGC for decades. Including explosions inside the factory with uranium centrifuges at work, and killing their atomic guru with a machine-gun aimed and triggered from space, and killing the chief of the IRGC at the Baghdad airport.
    BUT, since Mr. Escobar never mentions Israel for anything happening outside the Middle East – and always sparingly when he does, – and as he obviously hasn’t yet discovered that Russia and Israel are in an existential conflict, and since he is not aware that Ukraine was triggered this year as a trump card on the Iranian nuclear deal negotiations, it’s obvious that he’s leaving the most propable perpetrators and scenarios without consideration. How do I know that he doesn’t know? Because of his explanations why all this is happening – previous articles from roughly the last year. Everything else is/could be discussed at length as/ ‘the cause’ of this ongoing calamity we’re seeing in Europe and elsewhere, but never Israel as perpetrator and the Iranian nuclear program as the reason for the perpetration. So, this is a big blind spot in his articles, both for him if he’s truly ignorant of those things, and for his readers.
    BTW, there was a big explosion in the port of Beirut, Lebanon less than two years ago. Thus far no one knows what happened. Which is easy to explain: very high-tech weapons are outside the limit of comprehension of ‘dissident’ article writers, and noone with the relevant knowledge is telling you, me or anyone else.

    • Agree: inspector general
    • Replies: @George Rockwell
  25. ARepli says:

    What follows comes from a top source in Brussels: serious, trustworthy, proven record spanning nearly two decades. Yet he may be just spreading disinformation. Or bragging. Or that may be rock solid intel.

    Ok, so the article is entirely made up… Great work!

    * * *

    [MORE]

    At the Frying Dutchman All-You-Can-Eat Seafood Buffet…

    Waiter to Homer: And for you sir?

    Homer: All you can eat! All you can eat!

    Waiter: Now, when you’re ready, take this plate up and…

    Homer already at buffet…

    Chef: No sir! Don’t take our steam tray!

    Waiter to Captain McAllister: That man ate all our shrimp! And two plastic lobsters!

    Captain McAllister: ‘Tis no man. ‘Tis a remorseless eatin’ machine! Six bells! Time for closin’!

    Homer: Can’t talk… Eating.

    Captain McAllister: Fairly warned be thee, says I!

    Homer being removed from restaurant: But the sign said “All you can eat!”

    Lionel Hutz, Atty at Law: This is the most blatant case of false advertising since my suit against the movie The Neverending Story.

    Homer: So, do you think I have a case?

    Lionel Hutz: Mr. Simpson, I don’t use the word ‘hero’ lightly, but you are the greatest hero in American history.

    Homer: Woohoo!

    Lionel Hutz in court: Mrs. Simpson, what did you and your husband do after you were ejected from the restaurant.

    Marge: We pretty much went straight home.

    Lionel Hutz: Mrs. Simpson… you’re under oath!

    Marge: We drove around until 3 AM looking for another all-you-can-eat fish restaurant.

    Lionel Hutz: And when you couldn’t find one?

    Marge: We went… fishing!

    Lionel Hutz: Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, Your Honor: Does that sound like a man who had ‘all he can eat?’

    (Pepe keeps eating)

  26. Karl1906 says:

    OK. A decades old Russian warship burned and sunk. So much is known. It’s not even clear if it was attacked! Then, what’s the overall tactical value of this loss in the conflict? It’s the ONLY loss of this kind the Russians had to this point! I’d say it’s of no importance. It certainly will not change Putin’s course of action and the outcome of this war. No matter what some of the NATO-goons and the fake news-press may claim.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  27. Anonymous[274] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    This was supposed to be kept secret!!

  28. Anonymous[222] • Disclaimer says:
    @Arthur MacBride

    Or maybe Mr Rothschild’s English mansion, also well-known …

    • LOL: Arthur MacBride
  29. @Gordon Bennett

    And is Russia encouraging this through covert backchannels?

  30. @TG

    The simplest explanation is an internal accident. That explains the relative muted response from all sides — embarrassment from Russia, no reason to gloat from anyone else.

    The next most likely explanation is direct US/NATO involvement. It makes sense tactically, but nobody wants escalation, so there’s no official outrage on one side or triumph on the other.

    Least likely is an unassisted/lucky Ukraine strike. Taking out the flagship is great for propaganda and morale… but it begs the question of whether a strike like this is even within their capabilities — and if so, why haven’t there been more like this? Putting all your eggs into one big morale boost doesn’t make sense when you don’t have the guns, numbers and positions to rally with.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
  31. MarkU says:
    @nsa

    The actions you are proposing are war crimes under international law. Yes I know the US and Israel attack civilian infrastructure regularly and have no regard for international law but the Russians apparently do.

    • Agree: Notsofast
  32. Pheasant says:

    It was an old ship. The Russian missile cruisers even in Soviet times were rustbuckets. This articles information about how missile defence works is wrong. I did think it strange that the Ukranians would be capable of sinking a ship with a missile however.

  33. MarkU says:
    @A123

    Even a relatively puny munition can hit a vulnerable spot (such as ammunition stores) but you are correct to query the assumption that it was a Neptune missile. Only a fool would rule out the possibility of NATO having supplied something heavier.

  34. Agent76 says:

    Apr 18, 2022 Sinking of Moskva warship a ‘significant public embarrassment’ for Russia

    Retired Vice-Admiral Mark Norman discusses the sinking of the Russian warship Moskva and the implications of the loss for the war effort.

    • Disagree: Drapetomaniac
  35. SIS says:

    An exact same type of ship exists in the Ukraine fleet called the Ukraina. It looks exactly the same as the Moskva build wise, but has never been fully commissioned.

    The tug supposedly rescuing the Moskva is completely out of proportion with the Moskva in the “shaky footage” shown. Shaky footage being a classic Psyop tactic. It is possible to make convincing models of ships. Many James Bond films in the 70’s and 80’s used this technique.

    The deck on the Moskva looks rusted, where other actual images of it has a very red deck, and was also recently in for improvements in circa 2020, so they probably painted the deck then.

    Was the whole thing Psyop? I know this is hard to contemplate, that a mostly phony war is taking place, but much of the evidence suggests that. The phony war to give cover for the bankster / eco reset.

    The Kremlin does not control the Central Bank of Russia.

    • Thanks: Pheasant, RedpilledAF
  36. @Arthur MacBride

    “Strangle the chicken to frighten the monkey.”

    One of many possibilities: Attack Saudi oil production.

    With Saudi oil output “impacted”, the price of oil worldwide rises significantly. European and US economies are slammed. Turn the economic “hybrid” war back on the US and Europe big time. While Russia, Iran, and Venezuela — as well as US oil producers — get an economic boost.

    • Replies: @Arthur MacBride
  37. @Anonymous

    What will the US occupy them with? LGBT troops with orange hair?

    The US won’t exist as we know it in ten years, Russia will be better and stronger than ever.

    • Replies: @haha
    , @Drapetomaniac
  38. MarkU says:
    @Gaylord of the German Gaylands

    Yes, that is the plan as I read it. There are problems with that plan though, not least that the Russians regard NATO expansion as an existential threat and therefore cannot afford to concede defeat. Since the Russians cannot defeat a fully mobilised NATO because of sheer weight of numbers (something they know all too well) they have already clearly signalled that they will resort to nukes if they have to. The deranged inbred bankers that run the western world seem to believe (wrongly) they are playing poker and the Russians are bluffing, probably some European capital will pay the price of that misapprehension. The US, understandably unwilling to commit suicide to avenge London (say) will probably back down at that point rather than launch total nuclear war, the rest of NATO will disintegrate as it should have done after the fall of the Soviet Union. Ukraine will end up being partitioned and absorbed by the RF, Poland, Rumania and Hungary.

    That is the least bad option under our current leadership, I think we all know what the worst case scenario is.

  39. Horus says:

    Nato certainly knows what happened to the Moskva. Almost certainly they were the brains behind the attack.

    Likely was hit by an anti ship missile, who knows if it was Neptune, harpoon or whatever else Ukraine has been given.

    It was an old ship and as has been commented defending ships from missiles is really hard. Subsonic missiles can still beat modern air defence. Nothing surprising about it being hit.

    I’m surprised it sunk but wasn’t that due it it listing in bad weather ?

    But its good to see the massive over hyping of Russian capabilities continues.

  40. SafeNow says:

    I will repeat what I posted long ago. As Ron would say, made relevant by recent events.

    China recognized several years ago that warship-sinking has a high potential to be the dangerous basis for stepwise escalation into a strategic nuclear war. China then astutely deployed its gigantic “coast guard cutters” (12,000 tons, the size of a destroyer!). Also flat-sided and double-hulled merchant vessels. Ramming and “shouldering” would be the game; playing at bumper-boats. The worst-case scenario would be an exchange of small-arms fire, not WWIII. The U.S. responded by sending a Navy carrier group, a foolish and dangerous response. On the plus side, the Japanese and other CGs have enhanced operations, and conducted some joint exercises with the USCG. Too bad the U.S. doesn’t have ice-breakers – – perfect for bumper-boats.

    • Replies: @mike99588
  41. Seeing that America officially has laser technology with lethality up to one mile (ref 1), and considering the fact that microwave frequencies can be used for invisible maser beams, and remembering the strange anomalies of the California wildfires some years ago (ref 2), is it to stretch the imagination too much to think that what was used here might have been a space-based directed energy weapon?

    What is Elon Musk sending into space? And how much gear can one buy with the Pentagons missing 35 trillion USD? (ref 3)

    1: https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/capabilities/directed-energy/laser-weapon-systems.html

    2: https://odysee.com/PARADISE-DESTROYED--California-Firemen-Find-Signatures-of-Directed-Energy-Weapons – sorry it’s Infowars, but the 5-minute clip is quite good.

    3: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/pentagon-35-trillion-accounting-black-231154593.html

    • Replies: @Harold Smith
  42. GMC says:
    @Z-man

    Z Man – kak di la ? Possibly the drones did lead interference. My first comment , when I heard of the Moskva getting hit was a mini sub from Israel or Germania. That was my first instinct because the only way the Ukies could pull this off is with a whole lotta help from the Nato boyz. Actually Russia needs to make another couple big naval ports on the Crimea coast and Evpatoria could be enlargened to support the region between Sevastopol and Odecca areas. In due time. oodahchee

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
  43. Phibbs says:

    I was in the U.S. military, but I still hope Russia and Iran attack and destroy every single American military base in the Middle East and Europe. I hope Hezbollah flattens America’s master — the Jews of Israel — at the same time. As for those Americans who die, well they chose to serve in the Israeli-Occupied Government’s military. They can die knowing they died for Israel, as this Jew hatred for Caucasian-Christian Russia is all over the Jew-owned media and coming out of the treasonous mouths of the Jew-owned Congress and White House.

  44. ValMonde says:
    @John Thurloe

    What a juvenile comment.
    Understandably conditioned by a somewhat average IQ, low impulse control and decades of exposure Hollywood war heroics.
    At this point, Russia is not interested in returning scratches and minor bruises.
    Only in the annihilating of her enemy.
    Yes, the entire NATO fleet could be sunk in minutes. What for?
    Why give joo-run US the satanic satisfaction of destroying God’s creation?
    It’s going to be safer for humanity and easier for Russia if NATO is just disbanded.
    It will be eventually. Russia has time.

    • Agree: Drapetomaniac
  45. Wokechoke says:

    There’s Turkey sitting there rescuing the crew apparently.

    After the Bryansk oil depot was bombed by Bayraktar (MIT’s offshore drone project) drones Turkey should expect increased sabotage on their own installations. The war spreads. Istanbul could face several problems given that it is so exposed to the sea.

    It’s pretty clear now that Turkey is balls deep in the Moscow Cruiser sinking and technologically involved in that raid on Bryansk. What they are hoping to gain is anyone’s guess though. No wonder the Russians were so keen to seize and hold Crimea. Not having it exposes Russia to attacks in Moscow from Istanbul.

  46. Wokechoke says:
    @GMC

    The Turks must have been informed and greenlighted this, along with both Washington and possibly London. Turks are balls deep in this. And guess what, they’ve got oil terminals and gas pipelines too. They are going to get a lot of sabotage now. War Spreads.

    • Replies: @Here Be Dragon
    , @GMC
  47. still not much convincing evidence it was hit by missiles, which of course remains a possibility. this is what surface vessels are most vulnerable to. deliberate sabotage, hit by a torpedo, hit a sea mine, all also, decreasingly likely, scenarios.

    still most likely they accidentally blew up their own ship, then weren’t able to save it. which happened to Kursk in 2000, and is something that happens once in a while when you have dozens of vessels out there maneuvering. previously we have clowned US Navy for losing vessels this way that weren’t even in a war game or an actual war, so it’s totally fair to chuckle at RUS now.

    • Agree: peterAUS
  48. Wokechoke says:
    @Sollipsist

    Turkish ships nearby ready for rescue. Very suspect. They also appear to have provided the drone over Bryansk that blew up the oil depot. They are going to regret it. Russia has proxies there who can also blow up terminals and depots.

  49. @Jeff Davis

    Attack Saudi oil production.

    This is certainly a valid idea of itself, curtailing Wahhabism for example.
    The drawback is that many millions of innocent people will suffer*, also the action will be drawn-out and uncertain of success.

    *Just as today many people are suffering and have been suffering for decades in the west because of the policies/actions of their paid-for “governments” acting on behalf of zio-kike-masonic banksters. Even when such policies have a wholly malevolent outcome for 99.9% of humanity. Even when it is increasingly seen that zkmb’s and their politician and “journalist” flunkies are themselves malevolent and even demonic.

    So for reasons of justice and effectiveness, a strike at the head of the snake seems the best policy. The west is effete and will not retaliate. It’s also possible that many/most of the people in the west would support such a strike. It is even likely that righteous Jews also would do so. Oligarchs/zionism = the road back to expulsion/pogrom for Jews.

  50. @Thomas Faber

    …is it to stretch the imagination too much to think that what was used here might have been a space-based directed energy weapon?

    Yes it is stretching the imagination way too much to think that “a space-based directed energy weapon” had anything to do with this.

    • Agree: Drapetomaniac
    • Replies: @Thomas Faber
  51. @Here Be Dragon

    Or it was just an opportune strike and a propaganda win for Russia.

  52. iseeit says:
    @Anonymous

    Lol….

    Yeah and expect santa claus, the easter bunny and cupid to become leaders of the planet soon after…

    Moron-:)

    • Replies: @Notsofast
  53. So there was a quite slim chance that anything – not to mention subsonic Neptune missiles and Bayraktar drones – could have slipped through this aerial net.

    There’s no mystery. It’s only a mystery to Putin Fanboys, Russian Military Tech fanboys, and pseudo-public-intellectuals who don’t know when it is blaringly obvious that they don’t know what they’re talking about, so they are best off keeping their mouths shut.

    No one should listen to Pepe Escobar

    Demand your time back

  54. @Santa Claws

    Oy Vey!!!! You mean our greatest ally EVER might have sabotaged a Russian Naval vessel in order to try and possibly start WW3?

  55. ‘Russia Is Failing:’ Blinken, Austin Pledge More Military Aid During Kyiv Visit

    Antony Blinken and Lloyd Austin said the U.S. wants Russia weakened, after meeting with Volodymyr Zelensky in Kyiv; a Russian oil depot caught fire; Ukrainian Orthodox Christians celebrated Easter as fighting continued. Photo: Associated Press
    Russian authorities said they were investigating the fires at the facilities, which Russian state media said together contained around 15,000 tons of fuel. The blazes erupted less than a month after Russia said Ukrainian helicopters launched strikes that caused a fire at an oil depot in Russia’s Belgorod region, also bordering Ukraine. Russian state media aired security-camera footage on Monday that appeared to show a large explosion followed by a fire.

    Oh Pepe look!! look!! Russian oil fields a blaze. How do you think Nato did that? What does the General speculate? What do your top inside sources say? What you fail Pepe, (miserably fail) to realize is there exist a covert war being carried out by the West, with technology worthy of a Mission Impossible movie. You just do not get it. There is an entire army in there (belonging to no specific country ) with computers, no one knows about.

    It is true we in the West act silly and seem unfocused and incompetent, worrying more about only transgender rights. But the West also has brilliantly creative talented people that actually develop technology that would blow not only your mind but the Russians as well, and makes Russia look like nothing more than a school yard bully that needs to be sent home.

    If you think that Russia can compete with the West, I would invite you to visit the Smithsonian Air and Space museum, where a Mercury space capsule stands side by side with a Russian Soyuz Capsule. The Mercury capsule has beautifully fabricated toggle switches and a dash board with state of the art panels. The Soyuz looks like a 1950 Hoover Vacuum cleaner with rubber hoses mounted to openings with duct tape. If you think the Russians were ahead of us back then it was and still is a joke. Nothing much has changed. It appears you have very little knowledge of mechanics and technology to understand what is going on here. All that has happened is that Russia has poked the bear so to speak. Like Japan did with Pearl Harbor. Ukraine is considered an American Pearl Harbor, for no other reason that it is a bridge to Nato and the entire West. If Ukraine looses the West looses. It is not going to happen. In the words of the Japanese admiral Yamamoto Putin just woke up a sleeping giant.

    As I am writing this Ukraine has an army special Ops men and women from around the world out of uniform, working with computers and satellites. When the Israelis went into Iran to kill their top nuclear scientist they took 1/4 of the country of the electrical grid. Complete black out. When they took the scientist to the hospital the electric doors could not open.

    The Moskva was probably blacked out before the attack, and it was probably hit by a submarine also not belonging to any particular army. Just a stealth submarine you will never hear about. You really need to wake up and smell the fumes Pepe. When you write childishly saying “watch out ” all hell is going to brake loose.

    Which brings us to the inevitable clincher: “If NATO was involved, I am sure we will see some retaliation, after all, as I am on record all the time, US bases in Middle East and elsewhere are nothing more than fat prestigious targets.”

    So get ready: something lethally “asymmetrical” may be about to pop up.

    Think of that Soyuz capsule at the air and space museum and watch as the West start a full on assault, all the while making it look like Ukraine is on the brink of defeat and just got a few lucky brakes. At the end not one Russian soldier will be left in Ukraine. I do not care who you are routing for. The long arc of morality is about to appear. After Russia, Hezbollah will be defeated. The Lebanese want to join the normal world, not this turbaned terrorist like Nasrallah who just wants to kill Jews so the Muslims can capture Al Quds. Like the Muslims are the enlighten ones and the Jews and the West are imperial “occupiers”. Not even the Muslim Arabs in Arabia believe this any longer. Iran’s military will be destroyed after Hezbollah and Hamas. Game, set, match.

    Here is the ending Pepe:
    What we are left with is the groups of people who want to work and play with others and the group who wants to conquer, divide and take over, based on criteria that they have set for themselves. What nationality will run what. The other group who established the rules of law and human rites will carry the day. You cannot attack a country and kill civilians like Russia has and walk away to try it all over again the next day Doesn’t matter who historically is right or wrong.

    History is written by the winners and for sure Russia is going to lose.

  56. Photos do not appear to be a missile. When a missile hits a ship it punches a hole in the side of the ship and the hole creates a path of least resistance causing the walls of the ship to blow out.

    Here is a picture of an Indian test not long ago of a BraHmos missile striking an old target ship. You will notice the blowout of the walls.

    https://postlmg.cc/qtK8WxRY

    There does not appear to be any such blowout on the walls of the Moskva.

    https://postlmg.cc/D4SfYBf4

    Likely not a missile.

    • Thanks: Sepp
    • Replies: @Sparkon
  57. @Harold Smith

    Because such weapons do not exist, or because it would be too risky to do it like that?

    Physically speaking, such weapons are eminently possible – lasers have been used to measure the distance to the Moon, for example, and as I wrote, America already officially has military lasers. Israel also unveiled their “iron beam” anti-air-system recently, also utilizing laser technology. I admit it would require serious wattage and engineering to do it from space, but it is certainly possible. And with Elon Musks Space-X, a lot of stuff can be hauled into space relatively cheaply.

    As for microwaves (which can also be beamed, with similar technology as lasers), the reason that one should not put metal into a microwave oven is because metal absorbs microwaves, and heats up. Aiming a sufficiently powerful microwave beam at the ammunition depot of the Moskva would set it on fire.

    Now, would it be detectable with the sensors of the Moskva? I don’t know.

    • Replies: @Corrupt
    , @Harold Smith
  58. @A123

    A 40 year old warship is THE Flagship of the Russian Navy. Okay.

    Sounds more like a ship that could be scuttled and not be much of a loss.

    A prop in a fictional war movie.

    Similar to the loss of three asbestos laden towers in NYC.

    Similar to the abandoned steel plant that is a toxic waste site, and is currently the location of a suicidal last stand in its basement. Will they drink the cool aid?

    • Agree: antitermite
    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    , @Badger Down
  59. @Wokechoke

    It is highly unlikely that Turkey was at any rate involved in this incident other than saving the Russian sailors. There had already been a case when they hit a Russian fighter jet in Syria and the Russians made them pay for it a great price – billions in hard cash.

    Don’t think that after that the Turks would be willing to risk their well-being once again, especially considering that now the stakes are higher than ever. The Russians know what happened there, after all the crew survived it, whatever that was so they know for sure what it was and what it was not. Had it been NATO they would have certainly say it.

    But what is not any less interesting is why there is so little coverage regarding the recent Turkeys invasion of Iraq. An unprovoked and absolutely illegal invasion, a war of aggression against a sovereign country, a young and developing democracy and there is almost complete silence – where are all the human rights defenders?

    No sanctions against Turkey too.

    Turkey has begun the new week with the launch of a large-scale ground and aerial cross-border offensive against Kurdish militants in northern Iraq.

    Alongside artillery, T129B helicopters, drones and F-16 fighters, Turkey’s Special Forces and elite commando units were also deployed as part of the campaign that reportedly struck targets of the Kurdistan Workers’ Party, or PKK, in northern Iraq’s Metina, Zap and Avashin-Basyan regions.

    https://www.arabnews.com/node/2065816/middle-east

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    , @showmethereal
  60. Marcion says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Nations like Russia and China are based in ancient history. In other words, their cultures are time tested. The West is too anti-cultural and anti spiritual to survive the times.

  61. Wokechoke says:
    @Here Be Dragon

    That’s the Turks payback I suspect. A free plunge into Mosul.

  62. Wokechoke says:
    @SaneClownPosse

    The Tel Aviv Subterranean Battalion, Crack Suicide Squad.

    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein
  63. @A123

    Also there was a report that the ship’s captain had been arrested. Is that done for a battlefield loss?

    • Replies: @A123
  64. Corrupt says:
    @TG

    “But apparently, it wasn’t so much the original fire that did the damage, as incompetent damage control responses.”

    Not really. Perhaps incompetent fire prevention (if you discount the claims of arson), but ships in a shipyard being refitted do not have their normal fire fighting capabilities, both in equipment and crew wise.

    • Replies: @ntn
  65. Corrupt says:
    @Thomas Faber

    “Now, would it be detectable with the sensors of the Moskva? I don’t know.”

    It depends. Microwaves operate between 300MHZ – 300GHZ. At least part of that range (probably at the lower end) is detectable with ESM equipment designed to detect RADAR signals, especially those used for missile homing and and targeting by aircraft. I’ve also read about laser warning systems, but those were usually on aircraft, and I’m not sure if ships carry them yet.

    • Thanks: Thomas Faber
  66. Corrupt says:
    @Fran Taubman

    “The Moskva was probably blacked out before the attack, and it was probably hit by a submarine also not belonging to any particular army. Just a stealth submarine you will never hear about. ”

    Your claim is absurd. There are no non-Russian submarine in the black sea. They would have to transit the Bosporus Straits undetected, and that is not going to happen.

  67. Sepp says:

    There are also claims that a US Poseidon electronic spy plane was involved in the sinking, and that it was flying over Romania as it guided the missiles in.


    US reconnaissance plane over Black Sea after Russian warship Moskva ‘hit by Ukraine missile’

  68. @SIS

    At this point in history I would not at all be surprised to find out that what you suggest is true.

  69. @Thomas Faber

    Because such weapons do not exist, or because it would be too risky to do it like that?

    Because such weapons don’t presently exist and likely won’t exist for a long time if ever.

    Physically speaking, such weapons are eminently possible – lasers have been used to measure the distance to the Moon, for example, and as I wrote, America already officially has military lasers. Israel also unveiled their “iron beam” anti-air-system recently, also utilizing laser technology. I admit it would require serious wattage and engineering to do it from space, but it is certainly possible.

    It’s not “certainly” possible. A laser beam diverges and the beam quality deteriorates as it propagates through the atmosphere; and the beam would have to dwell on the same spot on the target for a long enough time to damage it.

    So to damage a ship like that from hundreds of miles away you’d probably need a multi-megawatt laser with good beam quality at the very least. In addition to the laser hardware itself (and I don’t know if current solid state laser technology can even be scaled to that level of power output) you’d need a huge power supply and cooling system along with it. It’s not feasible.

    Aiming a sufficiently powerful microwave beam at the ammunition depot of the Moskva would set it on fire.

    Even if you could generate a very powerful microwave beam, microwaves don’t penetrate metal; they are reflected.

    • Replies: @Thomas Faber
    , @orchardist
  70. peterAUS says:

    Not any mention of a failed missile launch process, which started a fire, which an outdated fire fighting system couldn’t handle.

    Boring, probably; much better stories are lasers, SBS, Harpoons etc.

    The all story is really simply about corruption and poor systems maintenance. Both endemic in RF armed forces.

    In time, with war dragging out, we’ll simply have more of that.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
  71. haha says:
    @Joe Paluka

    “What will the US occupy them with? LGBT troops with orange hair?”

    Nope. They will deploy crack LGBTQXYZ regiments armed with state of the art dildoes, instant gender-change equipment, and gender-neutral super-duper military gear. Them evil Russkies won’t even come to know what hit them: she-devils, he-devils, or multigendered devils.

    • Replies: @Sheba
  72. It is no riddle, the ZUS and NATO sank the ship, the ZUS and NATO are on the side of the zionists and nazis who rule the Ukraine, Russia will prevail.

    • LOL: Corrupt
  73. @Fran Taubman

    What an incredible piece of drivel and ignorance.

    The only technology in which Russia is lagging behind the West is semiconductor manufacturing, and even then – there is a huge industrial cartel and one country against it. And it is not because Russia has a lack of talented people but because it was in a crisis when these technologies were being developed – in the West.

    The vacuum cleaner was the first satellite in space. Russia and China are the only nations which can lift up heavy loads into the orbit. No other nation in the West can do that or compete with Russia in the metallurgical field and in rocket engineering. Russia has always been and still is the number one.

    And Russia has an army of strategic missiles armed with hypersonic warheads, gliding through the atmosphere ten times faster than any anti-missile system the West now has. The fact is even China is now testing a prototype, but in the West all these talented brilliant people still haven’t figured out hypersonic flight – fact.

    Russia is considered the best in submarine design. Russia is now building the most advanced submarines in the world – read your own western press, such as National Interest magazine. And Russia is the only nation that has nuclear-powered torpedos. You should at least read something on the internet before writing comments.

    The long arc of inadequate arrogance is here. You are delusional and stupid and for sure wouldn’t be able to explain what the hell morality is, if anyone asked, but no one certainly will seeing that the whole line of reasoning in your comment is that of a religious fanatic. You can do no wrong. You are who is right and who is best.

    For sure, we can say one thing: Russia hasn’t lost a war in two hundred years, and has defeated all the strongest military powers the West has ever had so far. Yet, for the West the situation is opposite. The United States Army – the strongest military power, in the world – couldn’t defeat Vietnam.

    Fact!

  74. MotGOD says:

    Total nonsense.

    If you got off your Russian Fanboy hobby-horse and did some honest research you would discover there is no need to pretend that it was NATO, no need to get excited about Russia “destroying” NATO (as you love Russia you should hope that Russian rulers are not stupid enough to attack NATO as that would be the end of your beloved Raggedy-Bear).

    You should be glad it was just those Ukrainians (those non-existent people of that non-existent nation), who sunk the Moscow.

    (With a little help from American spy planes and satellites, and a LOT of help from pure Russian incompetence in proper tactical ship-defense followed immediately by another heaping hubristic helping of not even really trying to prevent or do damage control — they just abandoned ship and let it burn and sink).

    Not a conspiracy! Not “ebil Not-See” Nato!

    Just RF incompetence — the Bully Bear can’t take the punches, that’s all.

    • Agree: Haxo Angmark
    • Troll: Humbert Humbert
    • Replies: @davidgmillsatty
  75. @Harold Smith

    Allright, I just checked it out, and I see that you are correct about the microwaves. Thanks for the correction.

    [If anyone is interested: https://engineering.mit.edu/engage/ask-an-engineer/why-cant-we-put-metal-objects-in-a-microwave/ ]

    But some other frequencies, perhaps?

    In any case, the official lasers work through 1 mile of surface atmosphere – and they can certainly burn holes through metal, and quickly. The thinner atmosphere at higher altitudes would have less of the scattering effect. Lockheed Martin say (officially) that they can produce focused 1 megawatt beams, as far as I read what they are saying.

    I honestly don’t know if they have space-based energy-weapons yet, but I am sure that there is a lot of hidden technology. And I must say, the pictures and anecdotes I have seen and heard from the California wildfires of some years ago leaves me very suspicious. People reported seeing beams from the sky, among other things. Did you check out the clip I linked to?

    • Replies: @Harold Smith
  76. Notsofast says:
    @iseeit

    don’t laugh, i have seen video footage of the easter bunny controlling joe biden, and santa has been a shill for norad for decades. with that said , you’re right, the guy is a fuckin moron.

  77. Sheba says:

    I agree with you. I read pepe’ s articles and am always excited to read his analysis but when it comes to israel he has a huge blind spot. He needs to address this head on otherwise all he offers is patched up stuff. They always seem to have a role in conflict. For example, both in Myanmar and with serbs the Israelis set the stage up for the conflicts and sold arms and provided training in ruthless kill tactics.

    • Replies: @Badger Down
  78. Wokechoke says:
    @peterAUS

    A missile that ignited other missiles is a good possibility. Shit happens.

  79. @Fran Taubman

    Ah, the old and ugly zionist bitch popped out of the freezer. Why are you sticking your giant schnooz in a fight between brothers that does not concern you? Do you not have enough images of dead Palestian babies to masturbate over?

  80. Notsofast says:
    @Fran Taubman

    you should stop beating your chest so hard, you’re going to bruise your saggy israeli tits.

    • LOL: Harold Smith
  81. Sheba says:
    @haha

    Thanks for that healthy dose of humor.

  82. PJ London says:

    My view (for what it is worth) is that the incidence of sabotage across both Russia and the US seems to be increasing.
    To me it is far more likely that some Russian sailor accepted \$2,000,000 to explode the Ammunition store than some Ukrainian missile evaded the Russian defences. It would also be cheaper.
    Oil facilities in Russia are mysteriously catching fire. Food centres in the USA are being destroyed, I know that the climate vegans are happy about it and will claim responsibility or blame it on God’s will, but it seems too much to be coincidental. When Electricity distribution or generation installations start strangely falling prey to acts of God then I will be more convinced.
    I expect funny things to start happening in the UK following Bozo’s visit to Kyiv. Though the UK is so screwed up I don’t know if they would even notice it.
    Russia in the mean time will step up attacks on Ukrainian infrastructure. Apparently as many as 11 million have fled westwards and 2 million eastwards, soon there won’t be many left. Of course they would have fled without Russian invasion if the borders had been open.
    Time to close down the western border. Take out the rail lines and the energy distribution, especially oil pipelines inside Ukraine.
    Anything entering Ukraine to be destroyed. Kill off the western supply lines.

    • Agree: James Speaks
    • Replies: @mulga mumblebrain
  83. @Joe Paluka

    Exactly.

    The US is degenerating quickly while Russia is still rising from the ashes of the Soviet Union.

    Poor old Uncle Sam is really going to need a lot of Viagra to stay erect.

  84. yes, by whatever means, NATO played a key role in sinking the Moskva.

    but blowhard botox-brain Putin will do precisely nothing about it.

    as to the “Donbas cauldron” you silly Putinistas keep glowing about,

    yeah…that’ll close about the time the milkyway galaxy completes another revolution.

  85. @Here Be Dragon

    “Russia hasn’t lost a war in 200 years.”

    you are an ignoramus. The Germans crushed Russia on the WWI Eastern Front.

    See: Treaty of Brest-Litovsk.

    • Replies: @Here Be Dragon
    , @republic
  86. A123 says: • Website
    @RegretLeft

    Also there was a report that the ship’s captain had been arrested. Is that done for a battlefield loss?

    The Moskva’s Captain has been reported deceased “in the line of duty”. Photos of him alive have been circulated, but at least some of them are out of date based on visible rank insignia.

    The USS Connecticut’s Captain was relieved of duty. The XO and the COB (most senior enlisted) were also relieved.

    I have not heard of any arrests from either incident.

    PEACE 😇

  87. Sorry to but in but a comment posted here on on this blog Jan 5th 2021 contained:

    The person who had the locution was correct about the devastation that would come about through the release from a lab of a “germ” 18 months before the covid outbreak. I strongly suspect that the UR contributors are monitored routinely so the relevant agencies will know from the date stamp in my emails at that time recording that the locution is true. Furthermore I pray with all my heart that an another locution is false and that what is heading to the US because of Israel does not happen.

    https://www.unz.com/pescobar/soleimani-geopolitics-one-year-on/#comment-4385751

    I thought there was an email regarding the final sentence above but I could not find it at the time, hence the vagueness, but tonight it popped up in an unrelated folder in my email client when searching for something else. I have moved it to my in folder and the intelligence services can easily verify the date it was sent i.e 16/12/21 and what seems the utter disaster which is going to be inflicted on people of America with no sign of mercy or hope.

    Furthermore the person who had the locutions above had two others several years ago which they did not understand until this weekend. One shows a recent president of the US seemingly in a hotel like building at a bar drinking his sorrows and pushing away somebody trying to enter. The latter finds himself outside in a desert landscape with withered and broken branches – they now think that this is a nuclear wasteland and the “hotel” is a reserved and protected installation for people of “importance”.

    The other locution is set in the area of where the industrial revolution was born in England. The person was puzzled because on one hand it seemed to be seeing back in time i.e. grass land with a Christian Church constructed of drystone – old style. The yard has “foodbank” style parcels indicating poverty but laid out in a fashion which I recognize and which seems to indicate Christianity has accepted in full the saying of Jesus “Before Abraham was I Am”.

    They no longer think this was seeing into the past but rather the future in which the holocaust which is going to come leads to a reversion to a pre-industrial state.

    For the benefit of the security services – if they check with whom I believe was their most famous remote viewer (Israeli tv celebrity?) they will find an email sent to him around the time of Obama’s inauguration about an extremely odd coincidence involving a sequence of numbers beginning with 111111… which he, a Jew, asked for comments. He replied virtually immediately and a short time later published an article regarding what he believed the meaning of the sequence was.

    • Replies: @Jack McArthur
  88. @Jack McArthur

    I have moved it to my in folder and the intelligence services can easily verify the date it was sent i.e 16/12/21 and what seems the utter disaster which is going to be inflicted on people of America with no sign of mercy or hope.

    Sorry for the typo – the date stamps is “12/16/2019 at 11:40 PM ”

    • Replies: @Jack McArthur
  89. @Here Be Dragon

    Frannie doesn’t mention that the US made money from WW2 while the Soviet Union was half destroyed. Or the list of space firsts by the Soviets.

    Frannie, is there a model of the Vanguard in the museum?

  90. raga10 says:

    If “NATO did it” it would be really impressive for them to pull something like this off with no-one noticing any NATO presence in the area.

    The ship was, as the article pointed out, just over 100km away from Ukrainian shores – well within the range of their missiles. Russians demonstrated their shortcomings many times over in this campaign; I find it completely plausible that they failed to detect or to intercept the missiles for some reason or another. Maybe they were just pissed, or maybe it really was an accident like they claimed at first.

    (I find that insistence that everything that goes wrong for them is the result of accidents rather curious – personally I would rather admit I was bested by the enemy than by my own incompetence… )

    • Replies: @raga10
  91. ntn says:
    @Corrupt

    If you read about it there’s no doubt it was a total clown show. People would have died for sure if the SD local Fire Department hadn’t shown up and cleared the vessel at the critical juncture.

    The first person to spot the fire kept walking to the vending machine then went back to their cabin. It’s a pathetic fuking joke.

  92. @Anonymous

    On the TV news they said the USers were afraid that Putin would take them out. That’s why they kept quiet about their visit to Question Mark.

  93. raga10 says:
    @raga10

    PS: so far NATO has been afraid even to send old equipment like jets or tanks to Ukraine for fear of upsetting delicate Russian feelings. I I find it very hard to believe they would have the guts to rush into actual military action instead.

  94. mike99588 says:
    @SafeNow

    An Iowa hulk filled with 40 psi foam might be especially interesting in bumper boats.

    • LOL: SafeNow
  95. @Harold Smith

    A low yield nuke, perhaps, detonated while suitably configured with a Fast Closure Device, mounted on either a ship, tank, plane or satellite, could pump a Laser to shoot a beam on a planned course and direction.

    Pumping Lasers with nukes was done c. 1975?

    One shot deal till the next shot is loaded – but if the reward is high enough, so what.

    Would be clandestine and non-traceable, also.

  96. @Haxo Angmark

    During that war two violent revolutions happened. The first one forced Emperor Nicholas to abdicate. The second one brought Lenin into power and led to a civil war.

    The continuing war led the German Government to agree to a suggestion that they should favor the opposition Communist Party, who were proponents of Russia’s withdrawal from the war. Therefore, in April 1917, Germany transported Bolshevik leader Vladimir Lenin and thirty-one supporters in a sealed train from exile in Switzerland to Finland Station, Petrograd. Upon his arrival in Petrograd, Lenin proclaimed his April Theses, which included a call for turning all political power over to workers’ and soldiers’ councils and an immediate withdrawal of Russia from the war.

    Yet Russia did not lose. The treaty was annulled soon thereafter and it fought back, regaining most of the territories it had lost. And later the rest of them.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
  97. My brother found a good info. Some time before the incident, the Moskva accidently downed an own Su-30 fighter bomber. Could be that they were very hesitant to attack possible air targets after that.

    As for Nato did it. It would have been enough to get all the intel together for UKR, sattelite etc. and coordinate the actions of the coastal antiship-missile battery.

  98. @nsa

    You are right. The second US war in Iraq shows how it’s done. Starve the population with “sanctions” to get rid of 500,000 children and other weaklings. Then bomb the civilians. Just shoot everybody, dogs too. Heck, the US killed more people in one week that Russia has killed in two months in the US war in Ukraine. Just kill the people and steal the oil!


    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    , @SPRiggs
  99. Ocko says:

    It didn’t sink, they pulled it into a harbor. There have been nuclear heads in the ship. They won’t let them rot on the sea ground.

    • Replies: @raga10
  100. @Jack McArthur

    I just looked up the remote viewer and lo and behold what happened on the morning 0f 911 (many people reported links with 1111111 etc) and recalled the locution the person had on that same moning, before the first plane hit, and how they believed the intercession of an America president in the next world stopped on that day an even more psychologically and dispiriting attack.
    https://www.urigeller.com/remote_viewing/

    • Replies: @Peter Rabbit
  101. Wokechoke says:
    @Here Be Dragon

    The USSR or the Soviets won of course.

  102. anonlb says:
    @Fran Taubman

    You are right about allmost all but your conclusion that Russia is going to loose big time is probably wrong. While its certain that West will fight to the last ukrainian and beyond I’m also certain that China will fight West to the last russian. Korean style division of Ukraine after milions deaths on both sides (even if nukes are not used) is more possible outcome.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    , @SPRiggs
  103. Wokechoke says:
    @Badger Down

    The celebration of the evident war crimes is astounding in retrospect, such footage should have resulted in Bush’s defeat and impeachment. Tells you something when Trump gets impeached for merrily threatening to block arms shipments…based on a leaked call to Zelenskyy promoted by a jewish Ukrio-American holding a US Army commission.

    • Replies: @SPRiggs
  104. Wokechoke says:
    @anonlb

    Hordes of heavily armed neo-Azovians’s their comrades killed off by Chechens, feeling betrayed by Jews like Zelenskyy and Blinken (and NATO), will roam the EU carrying NLAWs seeking vengeance on dumb whitey. A great opportunity for more violent repression and control by the existing state’s in the EU.

    thanks assholes.

  105. raga10 says:
    @Ocko

    There have been nuclear heads in the ship.

    That’s pure speculation and Russians certainly are not going to confirm it!
    Sure, they will try to recover as much as they can but they would do that regardless, just like US and UK worked very hard to recover their F-35s that fell overboard. There is plenty of useful intelligence on such wreck they wouldn’t want to reveal, even without nuclear weapons.

    It didn’t sink, they pulled it into a harbor.

    It sunk alright, in about 50m of water according to this source which also gives the pretty detailed location: 44°56′ N 31°44′ E.
    50 meters is not very deep, lucky for them.

    This location will be easy for open source intelligence to confirm: they just need to watch the activity in the area, as Russians will have to send recovery ships to the spot where the ship is – it’s not something that can be hidden in this day and age.

    source: https://charter97.org/en/news/2022/4/21/464344/

  106. republic says:
    @Haxo Angmark

    Also Crimean war and Russo-Turkish war and WWI

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    , @raga10
  107. Biff says:

    Somebody forgot to put the plug in before they launched the boat.

  108. @SaneClownPosse

    It must be the flagship: it’s got a flag on it. Any fool can see that.

  109. Anon7 says:

    As many of you know, Scott Ritter has consistently supported a contrary narrative about the war in Ukraine, one in which he claims that Russia is the clear winner in this conflict, and will dictate terms when it ends.

    Ritter accepts the story that the ship was struck by two missiles, and that this caused the loss of the ship. He asks a lot of questions about whether or not the Ukrainians had help in targeting the ship, and from whom. Sorry, but I can’t find the correct video; he’s been on youtube a lot.

  110. @Here Be Dragon

    Russia hasn’t lost a war in two hundred years

    Russo-Japanese war of 1905?

    • Replies: @Notsofast
  111. JWalters says:
    @RoatanBill

    The Russians may be equally focused on the information war. Worldwide, they are winning that war, as many countries are glad to see Russia striking back at the Western oligarchy’s bullying.

    Even within Europe and America, the general public is waking up to the lying of their oligarchs, and not buying their press and politicians’ excuses for their economic suffering.

    Putin is also maintaining the upper hand morally by offering generous surrender terms to regular Ukrainian forces. Events on the ground are being well documented, and that information will eventually find its way to the general Western public, just as did the deceptions about the war in Iraq.

    Daily documentation:

    https://rt.com/on-air/

    Daily discussion:

    https://rumble.com/c/theduran

  112. SPRiggs says:
    @RoatanBill

    &\[email protected]% Russia!!! Love to see the Russians try to remove the US from Europe or Syria. They could eff up a wet dream. Nothing scary about the Russian military as i can see other than nukes. I don’t think they are dumb enough to end the world for territorial ambitions, but if so, then it’s inevitable anyway or we will all be their slaves anyway. I think the US should take the opportunity to bury Russia by signing 50 year contracts for natural gas with Europe and everywhere Russia supplies and arms Russia back ton3rd world status where they belong!! Starve the people into regime change. Good ALWAYS defeats evil buddy!!

  113. @Fran Taubman

    Fran fellowwhite Taubman:

    (((You))) would love to see us all in an Israeli prison, so stop pretending (((you))) give a crap about the goyim.

    • Replies: @Sepp
  114. SPRiggs says:
    @Wokechoke

    You don’t seem to like Jews much, huh buddy?

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
  115. SPRiggs says:
    @anonlb

    If the west United and cut Russia off from everything and sent troops in and drew a line, this war would have never happened! Russia needs to be stopped at all costs. There dreams of getting the ole crew back together (ussr) needs to stop NOW or it will never stop.

    • Troll: Lurker
    • Replies: @mulga mumblebrain
  116. pyrrhus says:

    A 40 year old warship? If this were a commercial ship, I would assume insurance fraud rather than
    enemy action…

    • LOL: showmethereal
  117. @Here Be Dragon

    For sure, we can say one thing: Russia hasn’t lost a war in two hundred years, and has defeated all the strongest military powers the West has ever had so far. Yet, for the West the situation is opposite. The United States Army – the strongest military power, in the world – couldn’t defeat Vietnam.

    Russia has never successfully been invaded and lost. But they have lost adventures wars which they were the invader. The Japanese kicked their asses, so many Russian peasant conscripts died it brought down the Romanovs. You do not know history at all.

    As Russia faced imminent defeat by the Japanese, the call for peace grew. Nicholas’s mother, as well as his cousin Emperor Wilhelm II, urged Nicholas to negotiate for peace. Despite the efforts, Nicholas remained evasive, sending a telegram to the Kaiser on 10 October that it was his intent to keep on fighting until the Japanese were driven from Manchuria.[57] It was not until 27–28 May 1905 and the annihilation of the Russian fleet by the Japanese, that Nicholas finally decided to sue for peace.[60] Nicholas II accepted American mediation, appointing Sergei Witte chief plenipotentiary for the peace talks. The war was ended by the signing of the Treaty of Portsmouth.[57]

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    , @Here Be Dragon
  118. Notsofast says:
    @kaganovitch

    still being fought, my money’s on russia.

  119. @SPRiggs

    other than nukes

    The US won’t directly confront Russia because the US military has expensive but inferior weapons that have a long lead time for manufacturing. Any serious expenditure of it’s high tech weapons would result in shortages to continue the fight. Couple that with Russia is operating in their back yard and the US is an ocean away, and the US can’t win short of the US using nukes and then no one wins.

    The US hasn’t the fossil fuels to meet the European demand. The Europeans don’t have the infrastructure to accept US fuels even if the supply was available. In a short while, the Europeans will reverse their lunatic stance on their energy needs because there is no other choice. The hot air emanating from Brussels won’t run Europe’s industries or supply them with heat in winter.

    Men and nations behave wisely once they have exhausted all the other alternatives.
    Abba Eban

    The EU is living on borrowed time. It will disintegrate soon when their banks fail. That will take the Dollar along for the ride into oblivion due to counter party connectivity.

    • Thanks: James Speaks
  120. @Wokechoke

    The Tel Aviv Subterranean Battalion, Crack Suicide Squad.

    Subterranean Homesick Jews.

    • LOL: Notsofast
  121. Wokechoke says:
    @SPRiggs

    It’s no cohencidence that these events in Ukraine have come to crisis point with Zelenskyy as commander in chief in Ukraine.

    Leon Trotsky was born the next town over from the current Ruler of Ukraine. Third cousins or something I hear. You like professional revolutionaries old man?

  122. Wokechoke says:
    @Fran Taubman

    No the war against Germany did the damage to the Romanovs. Although to be fair the guys who actually gunned down the Czar and his daughters and sons have names and a religion.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakov_Sverdlov

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakov_Yurovsky

    Double Jacobs…

    Had anyone of the children survived it’s possible the imperial family may have returned as constitutional monarchs later on. Interesting what if.

    • LOL: Fran Taubman
    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  123. How times have changed. New Axis is Jewish supremacists and Sub-Nazis of Ukraine.

  124. @Spanky

    Your comment seems generally sound, but I would reply to this point.

    There has been online commentary to the effect that U.S. / NATO forces provided Ukro forces with the position of Moskva and, possibly, missile guidance using NATO equipment. And now this. In either case, these are acts of war.

    The provision of information can be regarded as an act of war, but probably won’t. Missile guidance using NATO equipment probably crosses the line, though.

    I wish that NATO would make up its mind that this simply is not NATO’s war. Unlike some right-of-center commenters, I sympathize with neither side in this war (or with both sides, if you prefer), yet I am unimpressed by sympathy as a cause of action in any event. In my estimation, a hard, cold calculation of Western interests dictates that we recognize the existence of a Russian sphere of interest—much as we would insist that, in, say, Mexico, Russia recognize the existence of an American sphere of interest. When it comes to the Ukraine, NATO should just stay out.

    My last sentence is unoriginal, of course, and is unlikely to provoke disagreement here; but it is nevertheless what I think.

    • Replies: @Spanky
  125. @Anonymous

    Expect to see a partitioned Russia within 10 years and U.S. troops occupying Russian oil fields.

    I doubt it. The U.S. could not even achieve a partitioned Afghanistan within 10 years, nor to maintain troops occupying Afghan poppy fields.

    • Replies: @anon
  126. Since NATO is arming the Ukraine and sending instructors to show the Ukrainians how to fire them and probably themselves firing them then they may as well do it officially rather than pretending that they are not directly involved in the war, which they are. Also they don’t need to have their NATO soldiers wear Ukrainian uniforms and pretend they’re some kind of mercenaries, they may as well fight in NATO uniforms.

    Surely Russia can gather evidence from satellites about Romania allowing its airfields to be used for Ukrainian planes, and helicopters or rather their own and other East European NATO members’ Soviet origin planes and helicopters with Ukrainian insignia painted on them, to fly missions in the war zone. Yes it’s time they all get punished for their direct involvement in the war which they are somehow trying to disguise as being something else, rather unconvincingly.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    , @Sepp
  127. @SIS

    The Kremlin does not control the Central Bank of Russia.

    It doesn’t? Please explain.

  128. Salcio says:

    “One thing is certain. If the Russian Ministry of Defense finds out that NATO did it, they will let loose all the dogs … ” – you mean all poodles?

  129. SPRiggs says:
    @Badger Down

    That’s a cool story yiu made up there bro! You like fiction, huh? Total BS!!

    • Agree: Fran Taubman
    • Replies: @Badger Down
  130. Wokechoke says:
    @Commentator Mike

    Then show the public back home the Plan 1919…

    What are we all signing for here?

  131. Sepp says:
    @Pat Kittle

    We are already in an Israeli prison, ever since the tiny hats forced all their shobbos minions to sign on to the Noahide laws.

  132. Sepp says:
    @Commentator Mike

    Nato sank Moskova in precisely the same way that Nato shot down MH17. All the planning, ground work, guidance and the coverup was done by Nato, and the Ukro-morons performed the dirty deed of pulling the trigger.

    In either case, it matters not what evidence Russia can present, it will be hidden in a bank of Nato propaganda FUD fog. The MH17 black boxes are still as unaccessable as Hillaries server or Hunter’s laptop. “Plausible deniability” backed by a synchronized global propaganda smoke screens.

    That Putin never extracted his vengeance for MH17 is likely one of the main reasons why Nato sank the Moskva. Now Putin is faced with making a far bigger and far riskier counter move, or once again retreating to his corner and waiting for the next, even bigger provocation.

  133. @Wokechoke

    No the war against Germany did the damage to the Romanovs. Although to be fair the guys who actually gunned down the Czar and his daughters and sons have names and a religion.

    Dude are you dense? Earth to Wokechoke the Russians LOST!!!
    The Empire fell
    People hated the Romanovs for sending young boys to fight and die and they rebelled.
    Pick up a history book.

    • Troll: Lurker
    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    , @Pat Kittle
  134. Wokechoke says:
    @Fran Taubman

    You credited the war with Japan for ending the Czars. That war with Japan happened a decade before the war with Germany. The Russian fleet was sunk in 1905. The St Petersburg Revolution deposing the Czar happened in 1917 and the communists staged a coup a bit later. Jews and certain ideologues didn’t like the Tsar but plenty of Russians still supported their royal family and various outlying groups of Cossacks were personally loyal to the Imperial family. The execution of the Czar itself is widely seen as an act of sadistic Jewish malignancy given the Jewish identity of the gunmen who shot raped and dissolved the family in acid. The murder of the family turned the birth of the communist regime straight into a curse.

    Yeltsin pointed out that the act was barbaric. We know what he meant. Today the Russians appear to see the Czar as a Saint.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  135. @Thomas Faber

    This Judy Woodesque “hidden technology” DEW meme is nonsense. There are presently no practical megawatt-level laser weapons. Certainly nothing that could be put on a satellite and used to destroy targets on the ground. And to the extent it may someday be possible, this is not the kind of thing that some small secretive research group is going to invent/develop in isolation.

    It is presently possible to make megawatt level lasers but they are big and bulky. An example is the YAL-1 project whose laser was so big and bulky it had to be housed in a Boeing 747. And as powerful as its chemical oxygen iodine laser (COIL) was, it still wasn’t powerful enough to do what they wanted to do with it, so it was scrapped.

    “I don’t know anybody at the Department of Defense, Mr. Tiahrt, who thinks that this program should, or would, ever be operationally deployed. The reality is that you would need a laser something like 20 to 30 times more powerful than the chemical laser in the plane right now to be able to get any distance from the launch site to fire … So, right now the ABL would have to orbit inside the borders of Iran in order to be able to try and use its laser to shoot down that missile in the boost phase. And if you were to operationalize this you would be looking at 10 to 20 747s, at a billion and a half dollars apiece, and \$100 million a year to operate. And there’s nobody in uniform that I know who believes that this is a workable concept.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_YAL-1#Specifications

    The Lockheed-Martin solid state fiber lasers are a more advanced technology than the YAL-1 COIL and they would be smaller than the COIL for a givern power output but it’s not clear how high the power can be scaled, and even if it could be scaled up to a multi-megawatt level, it would still be big and require a big and bulky power supply. It wouldn’t be something stealthy that somebody is going to put on a satellite.

    As far as starting fires is concerned you can buy 450 nm (blue) laser diodes with a 7 watt optical power output on ebay that will probably start fires under the right conditions at short range. Maybe one of these could be mounted on a small drone and used to start fires, but why would an arsonist go through the all the trouble and expense?

    • Replies: @Thomas Faber
    , @MarkU
  136. raga10 says:
    @republic

    Also Crimean war and Russo-Turkish war and WWI

    And let’s not forget Afghanistan! The US are not the only ones who embarrassed themselves in Afghanistan…

  137. @Fran Taubman

    Fran fellowwhite Taubman:

    (((You))) think we should all be in prison for merely questioning (((your version))) of WWII.

    That’s all we need to know about (((you))).

  138. GMC says:
    @Wokechoke

    Ya, it’s hard to tell the players without a scorecard but Turkey is definitely in the lineup.Israel too. It’s real easy for the so called leaders to sit back and let their populace take the hit for economic failures or become cannon fodder. If we don’t have a nuclear winter – Europe is going to get a bit poorer and chillier.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  139. P.O.W says:
    @Notsofast

    “…it will be interesting to see if any of the captured manpads from ukraine end up in iraq and syria.”

    – it would be a pity when those captured weapons turn up in the streets of NATOstan cities and towns, in the hands of the cartels, BLM and ANTIFA groups.

  140. @Harold Smith

    Well, you might be right. The fact is that I don’t know. But with enough money, I don’t see why it would not be possible to build a space weapon with a nuclear reactor mounted with some monster capacitors and, say, 5 1-megawatt lasers, all able to point at the same spot – it could be assembled in space, so as not to take the whole load up at once. Sure, it would be big and bulky, and perhaps, as you say, not feasible – but not impossible either, I think.

    Looking at the world, and what has been going on, I am convinced that there are people who, by any and all means, want to rule. I expect them to hide technology, if they consider this in their interest – and I also think that they have been doing so for a long time (at least a hundred years). And with enough money (35 trillion USD missing from the Pentagon??), a lot is possible.

    The bottom line is that I don’t know. In any case, I appreciate that you have taken the time to answer 🙂

  141. @SPRiggs

    So when will we see you parachuting into Azovstal to join your Ukronazi idols?

  142. The information in this article goes a long way to explaining why the Moskva “hit” is such a mystery,
    yet the most plausible reason seems much closer to Moscow’s official explanation.

    The propaganda peddled by the Ukraine is simply nonsense, there is no way that their homegrown fireworks could have snuck past the s500 system, with or without NATO help.

    Whether NATO was involved or not is irrelevant;
    with NATO effectively having to “plead the 5th”, & the Ukie story rubbished,
    this means that Russia has full control of this particular narrative.

    A useful thing.

    The sinking of a flagship, even one that was overdue for retirement…
    well in the other guy’s shoes, & if it were an American ship that would lead to all sorts of permissions.

    I’m not saying that it was a false flag. After all, no one else was blamed.
    But it does seem kind of convenient.
    And the casualty count curiously low, if it were a missile or torpedo. Think of the carnage after the Sheffield ate an exocet.

    Perhaps it was a “reverse false flag”.
    Give the other guy some little victories, that won’t matter much in the long run.

    After all, Russia has taken on a huge task – to knock the town bully off his pedestal.
    But if Russia shows himself to be too competent, too dangerous – well the other guy might just decide to pull out his “guns”, since that’s the only way to equalise things (even if it means everyone dies).
    Let him think that he can still fight this war with his “fists” (his puppet’s fists, even), without resorting to his impressive arsenal.

    • Replies: @R2b
    , @davidgmillsatty
  143. @SPRiggs

    A true Alpha Cretin. The USA doesn’t have fifty years of natural gas, possibly not even fifty months. Were you born this dumb, or have you deteriorated? But your comments are SOOOOOO dumb that I smell a sarcastic mouse. Not even a Yankee Doodle Dumbarse can be this thick.

  144. @PJ London

    Several of the mysteriously burning US food facilities were FOR vegetables. Veganism is not compulsory, so why do you denigrate its practitioners?

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  145. @Wokechoke

    The costly and humiliating series of Russian defeats in the Russo-Japanese War left the Russian Empire demoralized, added to Russians’ growing anger at the failed policies of Czar Nicholas II, and would fan the flames of political dissent that ultimately resulted in the overthrow of the government during the Russian …

    We started this conversation by saying the Russians had not lost a war in 200 years. Wrong. Peasant boys were being sent to die. The peasants resented the aristocracy for its disregard for the peasant class. Before the Russian revolution, Russian still had slaves. The revolution had nothing to do with the Jews. Russians were starving. The enlightenment never hit Russia, nor did the Renaissance.

    The order to kill the Czar and his family came from non Jews in the politburo. The Jews fighting in the Russian revolution did not fight for Jewry, they were godless. Most were non Jews. Most Jews in Russia were against the revolution and moved to America.

    It is like saying all the aristocracies in Europe and the French Revolution was caused by Jews. Stupid. The aristocracies created feudalism which granted power to the nobility WHO WERE CERTAINLY NOT JEWS. Revolutions are fought between the powerful (non Jews) and the powerless (non Jews and Jews)

    No one rapped the czars family. Furthermore there was only one Jew in the battalion of men guarding the Czar and his family. Most were non Jews. Because one was a Jew you decide to blame the Jews.

    The sadism that existed during the Russian Revolution was perpetrated by the revolutionaries who were mostly non Jews.

    You are so ignorant of the historical facts. Why not educate yourself on why the Romanov dynasty ended? No one misses them. It was a doomed dynastic system that was unsustainable and destined to fail. Serfdom ended and the peasants had a chance at advancement and education.

    • Replies: @Drapetomaniac
  146. @Another Polish Perspective

    It’s most likely things related to codes and such like. It was a 40 year old ship …. It wouldn’t have the most cutting edge stuff on it. But also ship born air defense would like have things the ground based ones don’t also…. So there can be plenty of reasons… the most likely is intelligence though.

  147. @nsa

    Remember Russia said they would not invade Ukraine but are conducting a special operation. It might be semantics to most – but that’s why they didn’t do exactly what you said and just knock out all communications and electricity. They are targeting military assets. Invasion means to take the whole country. In the west people view it differently. But in the East – words mean what they say. So I guess Russia really isn’t the west after all

  148. @Karl1906

    Yeah the silly media claimed losing that ship meant Russia could no longer hit Ukraine with cruise missiles… except that ship didn’t carry land attack missiles and Russia has kept hitting Ukraine with cruise missiles… Go figure

    • Agree: davidgmillsatty
  149. @Fran Taubman

    Dear Fran, in the Japanese War the Russians lost about 50 thousand men – about the same amount of casualties the Japanese had. The revolution that followed resulted in constitutional reform and establishing a parliament, not the abolition of monarchical order. Nicholas II retained his power.

    You could also reference the Crimean War of 1853 – 1856, the First Chechen War of 1994 – 1996 and the First World War, but it wouldn’t make a good argument because in the end Russia retaliated and defeated all of the enemies soon thereafter, even though it had lost to them first. However that is not what I was talking about.

    You said it – Russia has never lost when it was invaded. And this is what I meant. You need to learn a bit more about the historical context in order to understand the process which is taking place in Ukraine. The point is that Russia is not an invader – Ukraine is the aggressor.

    The war is going on for the territories and for the people which are an integral part of Russia and had on paper been a part of Ukraine not for a long time. Not long enough to forget that the region of Donbass was not lost to it in a war, not sold, not exchanged for something else but given as a gift.

    And had the Ukrainians not gone bananas with all that Nazi crap it would have remained a part of Ukraine, and Crimea would have as well. The war in Donbass began after the people had proclaimed independence and has been going on ever since. The Russians had to interfere to protect the people – the Russian people.

    There are no Ukrainians in Donbass.

  150. SIS says:

    Reply to @V. K. Ovelund. Please excuse the length of post.

    See Sergey Glazyev admitting that the central bank of Russia “needs to be nationalised” and at the same time “answers to the IMF” and “panders to the enemy”.. The article linked is worth a read. I have read more than Glazyev admitting the central bank is not Kremlin controlled. Including Escobar.

    Sergey Glazyev:

    [MORE]

    “the Central Bank, on the instructions of the IMF, raised the interest rate, which completely paralyzed our economy. The total damage caused by this policy has already reached 50 trillion rubles of unproduced products and approximately 20 trillion rubles of undeveloped investments. Now we need to add to this the \$ 300 billion invested in foreign assets that are currently frozen — that’s the damage” 1

    “Therefore, when we talk about nationalizing the Central Bank, we are not talking about formally nationalizing it (it is already nationalized), but about bringing it into a policy that is consistent with national interests” 2 (Glazyev contradicts himself by saying that the central bank needs to be nationalised, but is already nationalised. Surely it would be working in the national interest if it was.)

    ” But why does the Central Bank of the Russian Federation, in your opinion, pursue a policy in the interests of the enemy?

    — As I said, it does this on the recommendation of the International Monetary Fund. …. Therefore, an influential lobby is formed around this policy, which supports this policy based on its private interests. These interests run counter to the interests of the country, they are directly opposite to them. And if you look at what the Central Bank is doing today, I have no doubt that it is continuing its policy of pandering to the enemy.” 3 (Again, it would not be doing this if Kremlin controlled)

    1,2,3 https://www.theburningplatform.com/2022/04/09/events-like-this-happen-once-a-century/#more-264873

    If the central bank was Kremlin controlled, it would be working in the national interest. He admits it is “pandering to the enemy”.

    There is a reason that the Russian central bank had \$300 billion abroad ready to be seized, and let 600 tonnes of gold go abroad recently. So much for Russian accumulating lots of gold to fight the cabal. The central bank let more than 600 tonnes leave the country recently.

    Sberbank’s CEO Herman Gref is a WEF board member and involved with vaccine / digital money tech. JP Morgan is involved with Sberbank, via crypto etc. Rockefeller and Rothschild both are part puppetmasters of the WEF, as well as puppetmasters of the Fed. Herman Gref is “their man”, so to speak.

    It would appear that some of the same tentacles that control the Fed, control the Russian Central Bank. My guess is that the Rothschild / Rockefeller matrix and possibly others, control the Russian central bank. Obviously, these banksters control the IMF. Which Glazeyv admits, seems to be dictating Russian central bank actions. Not the Kremlin.

    • Agree: peterAUS
  151. R2b says:
    @antitermite

    I could buy that for now.
    Thanks!

  152. mcohen says:

    Someone bombed belgorod fuel depot,so in return the odessa oil refinery was bombed,so in return they sank the ship,and so it goes.
    I think this is no more about 2 countries at war,but Slavs settling scores .dangerous business all round.

  153. Spanky says:
    @V. K. Ovelund

    In my estimation, a hard, cold calculation of Western interests dictates that we recognize the existence of a Russian sphere of interest—much as we would insist that, in, say, Mexico, Russia recognize the existence of an American sphere of interest. — V. K. Ovelund

    Altho I agree with your estimate, unfortunately, the West (defined here as the U.S. and NATO, plus Australia, New Zealand and Japan) does not and seems incapable of hard, cold calculations regarding other nations’ interests — China’s recent treaty with the Solomon Islands being case in point. After much ado about Ukraine being completely free to join NATO, irrespective of Russia’s security interests, the Empire of Hypocrisy now says (according to The Guardian):

    US won’t rule out military action if China establishes base in Solomon Islands
    Ambassador Daniel Kritenbrink warns security pact presents ‘potential regional security implications’

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/26/us-wont-rule-out-military-action-if-china-establishes-base-in-solomon-islands

    The provision of information can be regarded as an act of war, but probably won’t. Missile guidance using NATO equipment probably crosses the line, though.

    When it comes to the Ukraine, NATO should just stay out. — V. K. Ovelund

    Altho an accident aboard the Moskva cannot be ruled out in light of our present lack of information, the war in Ukraine is a U.S. / NATO proxy war against Russia — nothing more and nothing less — which the Empire makes abundantly clear daily. Understanding this, Russia is trying to limit the fighting to Ukraine, which would explain their circumspection if the Moskva was hit by anti-ship missiles either by NATO or with their direct assistance. Russia does not desire a wider war, which the U.S. / NATO needs and is attempting to provoke. (Altho the promised Russian asymmetrical response is an interesting, if not ominous, reply.)

    • Agree: V. K. Ovelund
  154. @Here Be Dragon

    The Kurds were sold out a long time ago. Sadly the Kurds never seem to get it. They were used against Saddam and then sold out. They were used against Assad and again sold out. I’m not sure why they don’t understand the US couldn’t care less about them.

  155. @GMC

    Not poor enough. The Bulgarian PM wants poor Bulgarian citizens to donate one salary each to the Ukrainian government. Other European countries may do the same – spend their taxpayers’ money supporting the Ukrainian government.

    • Replies: @GMC
    , @Wielgus
  156. @Another Polish Perspective

    I go with some sort of directed energy weapon too…from the usual “aliens”. Just like the ones probably used on 9/11 and in setting some of those very interesting California “forest fires”….

    • Agree: GMC
  157. @mulga mumblebrain

    Australia is going apoplectic because PR China supposedly wants to build a military base on the Solomon Islands and calls it a red line, but it doesn’t recognise any of Russia’s red lines. But I see China denies it will be building this base so why all the fuss? Even US issued threats to the Solomon Islands based on this fake news about a Chinese base.

  158. @MotGOD

    The Ukrainians sunk the missile in their dreams. See my photos above.

    Moskva had no blow out of the sides of the ship which is what happens with a missile hit.

    Side blow outs happen because a missile puts a whole in the side of the ship, that hole is the path of least resistance, and the internal blast comes right back out the side of the ship, causing a blow out of the ship side wall.

  159. @Here Be Dragon

    Dear Fran, in the Japanese War the Russians lost about 50 thousand men – about the same amount of casualties the Japanese had. The revolution that followed resulted in constitutional reform and establishing a parliament, not the abolition of monarchical order. Nicholas II retained his power.

    Yes the Duma was set up specifically for constitutional reform on the issues I stated. But the Czar inexplicably reneged on the terms which meant power sharing, and retained all the power for himself. It was a failure and Nicholas was told by others in the aristocracy that retaining exclusive power and not solving the issues of status quo that he would be doomed, and he was. You need to understand that Russia never went thru the enlightenment where freedom and empowerment of individuals from the feudal system was abolished. Nicholas was a very stupid leader.

    https://spartacus-educational.com/RUSduma.htm

    The President of the Duma, Michael Rodzianko, became very concerned about the situation in the city and sent a telegram to the Tsar: “The situation is serious. There is anarchy in the capital. The Government is paralysed. Transport, food, and fuel supply are completely disorganised. Universal discontent is increasing. Disorderly firing is going on in the streets. Some troops are firing at each other. It is urgently necessary to entrust a man enjoying the confidence of the country with the formation of a new Government. Delay is impossible. Any tardiness is fatal. I pray God that at this hour the responsibility may not fall upon the Sovereign.” (28)
    On 10th March, 1917, the Tsar had decreed the dissolution of the Duma. The High Command of the Russian Army now feared a violent revolution and on 12th March suggested that Nicholas II should abdicate in favour of a more popular member of the royal family. Attempts were now made to persuade Grand Duke Michael Alexandrovich to accept the throne. He refused and the Tsar recorded in his diary that the situation in “Petrograd is such that now the Ministers of the Duma would be helpless to do anything against the struggles the Social Democratic Party and members of the Workers Committee. My abdication is necessary… The judgement is that in the name of saving Russia and supporting the Army at the front in calmness it is necessary to decide on this step. I agreed.” (29)

    You need to learn a bit more about the historical context in order to understand the process which is taking place in Ukraine. The point is that Russia is not an invader – Ukraine is the aggressor.

    I know enough history to challenge what you are saying. You need to understand what I am talking about with regards to the enlightenment missing Russia. The Ukraine was a part of the Russian Empire, much as many other countries from many other Empires in Europe. Austria used to part of the Austrian- Hungarian Empire, and Poland and Lithuania were all part of Empires. Empires have come and gone.

    It does not matter that Russia feels that Ukraine is part of its former empire, that country has made a decision to succeed from Russia, their choice, and obviously they are willing to die for it. Who conquers what has been going on since the beginning of time. If Russia loses they lose. You ideas are sentimental not logical.

    Ukraine does not want to be part of an autocrat government, they have chosen to join the West and attempt democratic reforms. That is their choice. Who would want to be rolled by Putin. Let Russia set one foot in Poland. I was just in Poland and they have memories of the the solidarity movement and what it took to get away from the USSR. Same is true of the Berlin wall.

    You can feel your feelings, but it is silly of you to claim some historical grandiosity about your ideas. There are two sides to every story. Like saying the Czar is missed, the Russian Empire was glorious.
    It is not relevant to what is taking place in 2022.

    The British used to say the sun will never set on the British Empire. Well how did that work out.

    • Replies: @Here Be Dragon
  160. GMC says:
    @Commentator Mike

    Simply amazing how these poodle countries fall over each other to kiss the USA and EU dicks. One would think that the Bulgarians and other Eastern European countries that have Russian populaces, would have entirely known about the terror that the CIA, Nato and the US has bestowed against Donbas – in the last 8 years. I wonder if the Turkish So. Stream pipeline is still flowing beyond Turkey ? Russia needs to neuter Bulgaria, Romania and others – in the future. Worthless countries 50 years ago and still are.

    • Replies: @raga10
  161. @Fran Taubman

    If there’s a loose brake routing issue to fix here, please enlighten us.

  162. @antitermite

    There being no photos of the Moskva, showing a blowout of the ship’s side wall,is highly indicative that this was not a missile, because side wall blow outs are clearly seen in known missile strikes.

    Most likely it was some kind of fire and/or internal explosion due to sabotage or negligence.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  163. Wielgus says:
    @Commentator Mike

    There are already tensions expressed towards Ukrainian refugees and giving up a month’s salary will make them worse. Like a tithe. Resentment of paying tithes to the clergy or to the Pope in Rome helped kick off Protestantism.
    If people had to give up a month’s salary to support Israel, anti-Semitism would cease to be on the fringes and become quite mainstream.

  164. Anon[336] • Disclaimer says:
    @Fran Taubman

    If you think that Russia can compete with the West, I would invite you to visit the Smithsonian Air and Space museum, where a Mercury space capsule stands side by side with a Russian Soyuz Capsule. The Mercury capsule has beautifully fabricated toggle switches and a dash board with state of the art panels. The Soyuz looks like a 1950 Hoover Vacuum cleaner with rubber hoses mounted to openings with duct tape.

    Heavy box wine consumption has its consequences, apparently.

  165. @Fran Taubman

    You are misunderstanding me.

    For me the Russian Empire was not glorious at all and I am not missing the Czar because I am a socialist of a particular kind. This is not the point. And what I am talking about has nothing to do with Russia’s alleged desire to restore the Empire. Russia does not need more land. Nor does it need Ukraine to be a satellite state.

    Let me explain it like this – imagine that we are talking about Jews. For example the Jews in the Palestinian territories. Let’s imagine that there is a Palestinian state, and the Jews are still residing there in the settlements. For a period of time there had been no problem and the Jews were getting along with the Arab population.

    But then a radical government came into power and began repressions against the Jews. For example, it ordered the Jewish schools to be closed and cancelled the status of Hebrew as the second official language, which it had been granted in the beginning when the state was established. And in the press people started to refer to Jews as Kikes.

    Of course the Jews couldn’t accept it and proclaimed independence. And then the Arabs called them a terrorist organization and started shelling them and attacking them with missiles and mortars and then sent the troops to enforce the law that the local Jews are not willing to follow. Most of the Muslim countries support the Palestinian Arabs.

    And the question is what would in a situation like this Israel do, and I guess it wouldn’t ignore it and would interfere in order to protect the people – the Jewish people, from being slaughtered. You should have known that Russia had tried two times to solve the problem without a war. Ukraine did not follow the agreements.

    And regarding it being a kind of sentimental line of reasoning – well, life is all about feelings and logic is not life. All ideas are sentimental. Most of all that of the enlightenment missing Russia, considering the fact that in the United States the slave trade! was abolished later then serfdom was in Russia.

    Your comment therefore implies that the enlightenment happened a little too late in the United States, but it nevertheless does not present a problem whatsoever for a reason that remains an enigma. And lest we forget that Russia’s contribution to the classical music, literature and science is eminent, if not outstanding.

    Your logic Fran is based on false premises.

  166. MarkU says:
    @Harold Smith

    I’m glad to see see someone else arguing with the clueless science fantasy garbage. In my experience it is always people that know damn all about science that believe in that crap.

  167. My hypothesis is that Russia cannot defeat the Ashkenazim. While Ashkenazi and Russian conventional weapons are relatively at the same technological level, the Ashkenazim possess a much larger force of international Gentile soldiers, they possess much more conventional weapons, and they possess the means to manufacture much more conventional weapons than Russia. The Ashkenazim seem to be calling Russia’s bluff regarding the use of nuclear weapons, and it may even be the case that the Ashkenazim, out of a Group Selected Religious/Spiritual/Monumentalism view, are willing to sacrifice themselves in a nuclear war as long as they can be relatively sure they will kill all the Gentiles along with them. There may be a subjective feeling of Honor among the Ashkenazim to choose to die and take their enemies with them than to remain alive where they have failed to enslave or kill off all the Gentiles.

    Now, the question is, do the Russians have the same Group Selected traits that will motivate them to be willing to sacrifice themselves provided that they take the Ashkenazim with them? My understanding is that they don’t. Dr. Michael Anthony Woodley of Menie has shown that due to years of dysgenics and mutational load, Russia comprises a very strong level of relatively Individually Selected/R-Selected Atheistic/Nihilistic Neurotic Non-Industrious Low-Intelligent Psychopaths. Thus, I conjecture that Russia will not launch a nuclear attack. Russians in Ukraine will be attacked by a virtually endless supply of soldiers and conventional weapons, resulting in the elimination of all Russians there. However, it will not end there. The Ashenazim, being extremely Group Selected/Ethnocentric, will now want to aggressively end the lives of all Russians in Russia as well. Russia will face a constant bombardment with conventional weapons until every Russian has lost their lives. Of course, during the process, the Ashkenazi males will rape as many Russian females that they perceive as attractive as they can.

    With the Russians out of the way, the Ashkenazim will take ownership of Russia, which means an abundant source of land and natural resources. Maybe Russia will be made part of Israel, which was their plan during the Bolshevik Revolution. Russia can be completely seeded with Hasidic/Haredi Ashkenazi families who, due to their extremely high eugenic birthrate, will quickly saturate all of Russia with genetically advanced Ashkenazi people. Subjectively speaking, the will of Mother Nature and G-d will be carried out, their plan being for the Ashkenazim to replace all Gentiles in the Darwinian struggle for survival and dominance. Just like the Homo Sapiens replaced the Neanderthals, the Ashkenazim will replace the Gentiles.

    On a final note, given the fact that the entire Russian population is going to experience extreme levels of physical and emotional pain at the hands of the Ashkenazim, the Russian government can preemptively provide the entire Russian population with painless suicide methods, such as suicide drugs, guns for everyone so they can end their lives via gunshot to the head, gas-based suicide products such as the gas coffin just invented in Switzerland, free plane rides for all so they can sky-dive without a parachute, preparation of buildings, high bridges, hills, and mountains that Russians can jump off of, and so forth. The remaining short time of existence that Russians have can be used to as quickly as possible prepare for a preemptive painless death.

  168. MarkU says:
    @Sanjay.....

    I beg to differ with your pathological analysis.

    You are obviously in need of serious medication and psychotherapy and probably need to be incarcerated both for your own safety and for the safety of those around you. If you continue to spout such delusional nonsense you will probably end up working for the Council on Foreign Relations.

    • Agree: davidgmillsatty
  169. Sparkon says:
    @davidgmillsatty

    I don’t see it that way. However, I do see dark areas, likely hull breaches, near the waterline on the port side in this photo of the listing, burning Moskva, and so does The Maritime Executive

    However, images from the scene told a different story: the vessel appeared to have sustained two hull breaches near the waterline on the port side, just beneath the stack, and extensive fire damage amidships.

    https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/family-members-look-for-answers-after-loss-of-the-cruiser-moskva

    The main damage appears to be amidships but smoke obscures much of the tower. Some naval experts may know if that is commensurate with an onboard magazine explosion. If the Russians release pictures of the sunken ship we may learn what took her down, but meanwhile, this image of HMS Sheffield, burning after being hit by an Exocet missile launched by an Argentine Air Force Super Etendard, in fact, looks quite similar, in terms of damage and smoke, to the image of the Moskva above, which was listing to port, putting those breaches closer to the waterline, whereas the Sheffield is not listing to starboard in this image, so the hole is higher, but she too foundered while being towed.

    Image: Navy Lookout

    https://www.navylookout.com/in-perspective-the-loss-of-hms-sheffield/

    • Replies: @davidgmillsatty
  170. @Fran Taubman

    “Why not educate yourself on why the Romanov dynasty ended?”

    Dynastic rule was ended so that non-dynastc psychopaths could gain control and immense wealth. You know, the people behind the curtains who are currently in control of the world’s dumb-ocracies.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    , @Wokechoke
  171. GKWillie says:
    @nsa

    Which goes to show that Russia and it’s leadership are MUCH more decent and humane, than any of the sick fucks who’ve been calling the shots in the West in the last 50 years.

    Of course, the cherry on top is the fact that Iraq was NEVER anything resembling a threat to the United States of America, only to the Shitty Little Nation of Jew dogshit which OWNS it’s weak compromised whores/politicians. as well as it’s media.

  172. Htos1av says:
    @nsa

    The problem with that is the >\$90 trillion the boomers are sitting on.

  173. Htos1av says:
    @Sanjay.....

    …OR they simply rediscovered their orthodox Christian roots and the Crusades are about to resume.

    FIFY

  174. Wokechoke says:
    @Drapetomaniac

    She knows! She can’t bear to face it though.

  175. Wokechoke says:
    @Drapetomaniac

    It was not so much ended as murdered by a set of Jewish freaks.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  176. @Wokechoke

    You mean like Stalin and Beria etc? Those freaks. Because they all turned non the Jews and sent them to Siberia.

    • Replies: @Avery
    , @Wokechoke
  177. Avery says:
    @Fran Taubman

    [Stalin’s Jews-We mustn’t forget that some of greatest murderers of modern times were Jewish]
    (Sever Plocker|Published: 12.21.06 , 23:35)
    https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3342999,00.html


    [And us, the Jews? An Israeli student finishes high school without ever hearing the name “Genrikh Yagoda,” the greatest Jewish murderer of the 20th Century, the GPU’s deputy commander and the founder and commander of the NKVD. Yagoda diligently implemented Stalin’s collectivization orders and is responsible for the deaths of at least 10 million people. His Jewish deputies established and managed the Gulag system. After Stalin no longer viewed him favorably, Yagoda was demoted and executed, and was replaced as chief hangman in 1936 by Yezhov, the “bloodthirsty dwarf.”]

    [Yezhov was not Jewish but was blessed with an active Jewish wife. In his Book “Stalin: Court of the Red Star”, Jewish historian Sebag Montefiore writes that during the darkest period of terror, when the Communist killing machine worked in full force, Stalin was surrounded by beautiful, young Jewish women.]

    [Stalin’s close associates and loyalists included member of the Central Committee and Politburo Lazar Kaganovich. Montefiore characterizes him as the “first Stalinist” and adds that those starving to death in Ukraine, an unparalleled tragedy in the history of human kind aside from the Nazi horrors and Mao’s terror in China, did not move Kaganovich.]

    [Many Jews sold their soul to the devil of the Communist revolution and have blood on their hands for eternity. We’ll mention just one more: Leonid Reichman, head of the NKVD’s special department and the organization’s chief interrogator, who was a particularly cruel sadist.]

    [In 1934, according to published statistics, 38.5 percent* of those holding the most senior posts in the Soviet security apparatuses were of Jewish origin. They too, of course, were gradually eliminated in the next purges. In a fascinating lecture at a Tel Aviv University convention this week, Dr. Halfin described the waves of soviet terror as a “carnival of mass murder,” “fantasy of purges”, and “essianism of evil.” Turns out that Jews too, when they become captivated by messianic ideology, can become great murderers, among the greatest known by modern history.]

    _______________________________
    *
    By 1939, the Jewish population of the Soviet Union constituted about 3.2 million people.
    In 1939 population of USSR was ~190 million people.
    That makes Jewish percentage of the USSR ~1.6%

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    , @Fran Taubman
  178. Wokechoke says:
    @Fran Taubman

    lol. The Soviet Union did one unique thing. It enfranchised Jews as citizens and let your people administer the NKVD, the economy, the police, the courts the army… the Czar excluded such subversive populations. Communism was the then current means with which vampires took over, over there. Trotsky was born the next town over from Zelenskyy for example.

  179. Wokechoke says:
    @Avery

    The Czar didn’t allow these people to hold office. The main innovation of communism was the political enfranchisement of Jews. The difference is stark from the pre to post revolutionary administrators.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  180. @Avery

    [Stalin’s Jews-We mustn’t forget that some of greatest murderers of modern times were Jewish]
    (Sever Plocker|Published: 12.21.06 , 23:35)
    https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3342999,00.html

    This is the greatest hits of Jew haters, a tired top 10. I know it was in Y News but taken out of context. The Jews who murdered during the revolution and communism were not fighting for Jewry, they were fighting for a godless communist society composed of godless Jews and non Jews.

    Those Jews were not fighting for Judaism or Jewish causes or for Zionism and Israel. They were just people who were born Jews, some whose parents had already converted to Christianity but are still considered Jews by die hard Jew haters.

    Jews fighting for Zionism and Israel are fighting for Judaism and the establishment of a state for Jews.

    Are you getting my point. Let me be more clear. Mao killed 75 million Chinese during the Chinese Revolution all in the name of a better godless China. No Jews were involved in that. That was mass murder on a much larger scale than one Jew did during the Russian revolution.

    But you are a Jew hater Avery, and as such you have a bias against Jews. You will look thru a microscope to find the Jews all the while passing on horrible sadistic non Jews to find the one Jew, because your biased makes you irrationally obsessed with Jews.

    No matter. If someone showed you 1 plus 1 = 2. You would say 1 plus 1 Jew= 2 murderous Jews.

    See my point. I fifth grader could figure out your silly bias, and dismiss you as a useless piece of shit with regards to history, murder and Jews.

    • Troll: Lurker
    • Replies: @Avery
    , @mulga mumblebrain
  181. @Wokechoke

    The Czar didn’t allow these people to hold office. The main innovation of communism was the political enfranchisement of Jews. The difference is stark from the pre to post revolutionary administrators.

    lol. The Soviet Union did one unique thing. It enfranchised Jews as citizens and let your people administer the NKVD, the economy, the police, the courts the army… the Czar excluded such subversive populations. Communism was the then current means with which vampires took over, over there. Trotsky was born the next town over from Zelenskyy for example.

    Double LOL for both of these lying comments. The Czar did not allow subversives in the government !! The entire aristocracy was a privileged bunch of idiots who owned land the peasants slaved and farmed the land for a piece of bread, while the nobility of land lords took the profits to drink and rape and pillage with no consequences or laws holding them accountable. If you were a poor Russian peasant woman your probably had many abortions from being raped by a Russian nobleman. Most died.

    The Czar let a piece of shit like Rasputin actually make governmental decisions. He was a drunken raping pervert. Oh sorry he was not Jewish.

    The Jews might have held positions in the communist party, but during the counter revolution most Jews who were sent to Siberia. When Stalin got sick before he died the politburo could not find a Jewish doctor to care for him because they were all in labor camps. No Jew ever held major administrative roles like Kruschev or Stalin or Beria, or further on in time. Jews were not allowed to practice Judaism. They did it in secret. Jews in my family went over to Russia covertly to help them get out.

    Practicing Jews were not desired within Russia and represented no continent of Judaism or Jewish causes. Most Rabbis were jailed, and bartering was done to get them out of Russia.

    Go find a Jew and Jew to make your noxious case. But Russia was full of non Jewish scum who treated the lower classes like scum. No education nothin. Fortunately the Jews were able to educate themselves and thus form intelligent people to challenge the corrupt Russian Aristocracy.

    You should watch the film Dr. Zivago and see what pre revolutionary life was like for the Russians.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
  182. How many Orcs were incinerated, maimed, drowned or died of hypothermia in the sinking of that old rust bucket?

    Not nearly enough!!

    The Russians, as individuals, can be great people. As a nation, they are such fuck ups. The Orcs just crashed a spy ship into a freighter off the coast of Istanbul. If there is a more appropriate metaphor for the Orc military, it’s a spy ship cruising blind.

  183. @Sanjay.....

    The so called armies of gentiles are quickly drying up due to woke ideology and kill shots. Let’s see Russia has as allies China, India and the middle east minus Israel. Israel has a collection of failed soon to be starving states known as the EU, Canada, and the already overrun U.S. The allies of Israel are bled dry and on the brink of collapse and soon to be a liability not much of an asset.
    At some point the U.S. will try to bring Trump along to rally the troops, or what is left of them. The best have been systematically weeded out and the rest dying or riddled with disease. Maybe they can re-up with Haitians and Afghanis. Good luck to you and yours.

    • LOL: Fran Taubman
  184. Avery says:

    {This is the greatest hits of Jew haters, a tired top 10.}

    You are desperate: the writer is a Jew.
    I didn’t write the article: a Jew wrote it. Get it?
    Nothing is taken out of context: I just highlighted some things from the article so that you would not miss it when you read the entire article 😊

    {But you are a Jew hater Avery, and as such you have a bias against Jews. }

    Sever Plocker, the author of the article — a Jew — must be a Jew hater then: No?

    {…. and dismiss you as a useless piece of shit with regards to history, murder and Jews.}

    When posters start foaming at the mouth and resort tom insults, I know they have no facts to backup their bloviations: they are just throwing out BS to try to obscure their incompetence.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  185. raga10 says:
    @GMC

    One would think that the Bulgarians and other Eastern European countries that have Russian populaces, would have entirely known about the terror that the CIA, Nato and the US has bestowed against Donbas

    And yet, most Eastern European countries that experienced bliss of living under the Russian rule first-hand are now Russia’s staunchest opponents. Makes you wonder, doesn’t it? Well, maybe not you – you probably prefer to remain oblivious to the obvious.

    • Agree: peterAUS
    • Replies: @Jack Sparrow
  186. Wokechoke says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Rasputin was known for being against the war with Germany. Had he really been influential Nicholas would not have decided to mobilize against Germany. Rasputin was just a proto peace n love hippy. He opposed Russian entry into war against Austria. He told Nicholas not to mobilize! This is why MI6 shot him as a dark influence (meaning counsel of peace) on the Emperor.

    Again Rasputin was a peacenik. His name was blackened by warmongering groups in the government and mostly by MI6 who wanted him gone because he was telling the Emperor to stop the war.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  187. @Wokechoke

    Again Rasputin was a peacenik. His name was blackened by warmongering groups in the government and mostly by MI6 who wanted him gone because he was telling the Emperor to stop the war.

    Sort of clueless about what you are saying here. I have never heard that he was a peachick etc. He was depraved and a vulture. You know the kind of subversive Jews the Czar excluded from power. Do you have a source you can quote about these facts regarding Rasputin? I have never heard this before. What is M16? Please sight sources for this drivel.

    Quoting you and Avery

    The Czar didn’t allow these people to hold office. The main innovation of communism was the political enfranchisement of Jews. The difference is stark from the pre to post revolutionary administrators.

    lol. The Soviet Union did one unique thing. It enfranchised Jews as citizens and let your people administer the NKVD, the economy, the police, the courts the army… the Czar excluded such subversive populations. Communism was the then current means with which vampires took over, over there. Trotsky was born the next town over from Zelenskyy for example.

    Here is what I have heard repeated many times. He was so embarrassing the nobility killed him. No peace

    Rasputin among admirers, 1914
    The Imperial Family’s belief in Rasputin’s healing powers brought him considerable status and power at court.[51] The tsar appointed Rasputin his lampadnik (lamplighter), charged with keeping the lamps lit before religious icons in the palace, and this gained him regular access to the palace and royal family.[52] By December 1906, Rasputin had become close enough to ask a special favor of the tsar: that he be permitted to change his surname to Rasputin-Noviy (Rasputin-New). Nicholas granted the request and the name change was speedily processed, suggesting that he already had the tsar’s favor at that early date.[36] Rasputin used his position to full effect, accepting bribes and sexual favors from admirers[51] and working diligently to expand his influence.

    Rasputin soon became a controversial figure; he was accused by his enemies of religious heresy and rape, was suspected of exerting undue political influence over the tsar, and was even rumored to be having an affair with the tsarina.[53] Opposition to Rasputin’s influence grew within the church. In 1907, the local clergy in Pokrovskoye denounced Rasputin as a heretic, and the Bishop of Tobolsk launched an inquest into his activities, accusing him of “spreading false, Khlyst-like doctrines”.[54] In St Petersburg, Rasputin faced opposition from even more prominent critics, including prime minister Peter Stolypin and the Okhrana, the Tsar’s secret police.[55] Having ordered an investigation into Rasputin’s activities, Stolypin confronted the Tsar about him but did not succeed in reining in Rasputin’s influence or exiling him from St Petersburg.[56] In 1909 Kehioniya Berlatskaya, who had been one of Rasputin’s early supporters in St Petersburg, accused him of rape. She went to Theofan for aid, and the incident helped to convince Theofan that Rasputin was a danger to the monarchy.[57] Rumors multiplied that Rasputin had assaulted female followers and behaved inappropriately on visits to the Imperial Family – and particularly with the Tsar’s teenage daughters Olga and Tatyana, rumors reported widely in the press after March 1910.[58][59]

    Rasputin with his daughter Maria (rightmost), in his St. Petersburg apartment, 1911

    Caricature of Rasputin and the Imperial couple, 1916
    World War I, the dissolution of feudalism, and a meddling government bureaucracy all contributed to Russia’s rapid economic decline. Many laid the blame on Alexandra and her evil spirit, Rasputin. One outspoken member of the Duma, far-right politician Vladimir Purishkevich, stated in November 1916 that he held the tsar’s ministers had “been turned into marionettes, marionettes whose threads have been taken firmly in hand by Rasputin and the Empress Alexandra Fyodorovna – the evil genius of Russia and the Tsarina… who has remained a German on the Russian throne and alien to the country and its people”.[60] (The tsarina had been born a German princess.)

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
  188. @Avery

    You are desperate: the writer is a Jew.
    I didn’t write the article: a Jew wrote it. Get it?
    Nothing is taken out of context: I just highlighted some things from the article so that you would not miss it when you read the entire article 😊

    I read the entire article. What I am referring to by out of context is what I have often repeated. These sadistic murders were Jewish in name only and they were part and parcel of an entire sadistic force of mostly non Jews. Stalin etc. They represent a godless communist mantra and despotic rule. These Jews did not murder for a Jewish cause or in the name of Jewry. Huge difference. Huge.This is the apparatus that many Jews belonged. It did not represent Jews, and most Russian Jews hated them.

    We cannot know with certainty the number of deaths Cheka was responsible for in its various manifestations, but the number is surely at least 20 million, including victims of the forced collectivization, the hunger, large purges, expulsions, banishments, executions, and mass death at Gulags.

    Whole population strata were eliminated: Independent farmers, ethnic minorities, members of the bourgeoisie, senior officers, intellectuals, artists, labor movement activists, “opposition members” who were defined completely randomly, and countless members of the Communist party itself.

    Here is what I meant

    The Jews active in official communist terror apparatuses (In the Soviet Union and abroad) and who at times led them, did not do this, obviously, as Jews, but rather, as Stalinists, communists, and “Soviet people.” Therefore, we find it easy to ignore their origin and “play dumb”: What do we have to do with them? But let’s not forget them. My own view is different. I find it unacceptable that a person will be considered a member of the Jewish people when he does great things, but not considered part of our people when he does amazingly despicable things.

    And finally. What did it matter if someone had a Jewish wife. Because the author is Jewish does not excuse hyperbole and stupidity like this. Did any of the Jewish murderers have beautiful Christian wives? What difference do the wives make. They were not murders. Just plain stupid.

    [Yezhov was not Jewish but was blessed with an active Jewish wife. In his Book “Stalin: Court of the Red Star”, Jewish historian Sebag Montefiore writes that during the darkest period of terror, when the Communist killing machine worked in full force, Stalin was surrounded by beautiful, young Jewish women.]

  189. @Wizard of Oz

    Anne Applebaum is one of the most loathsome neo-con hate-mongers extant, so the Wizz having a crush on her, too, hardly surprises. I bet he has a picture of Ilse Koch next to his bed.
    When it comes to barbarity, Applebaum’s Ukronazi idols are hard to beat. Not only are they directly descended from Ukrainian butchers whose atrocities against Jews, Poles, Hungarians, Roma and Russians during WW2 even repulsed the Germans, but since returning to Ukraine post-Gorbachev, and particularly since the US-organised and financed fascist putsch in 2014, they have massacred, tortured, disappeared and killed thousands of victims, all to Applebaum and the Wizz’s absolute delight. After all, who better to represent really existing Western Moral Values than yet another US-backed death-squad butchering its way through its enemies?

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  190. @Fran Taubman

    And they still claim to be the world’s cleverest people!! Basing its ‘argument’ on the Mercury space program c. 1962, and ‘Mission Impossible’ movies which it seems to believe are documentaries. This is what happens when the self-delusion, inculcated over 3500 year, of TOTAL supremacy over humanity, hits the reality of goyim who don’t believe the bull-dust. And arguing that the hyper-aggressive, murderous (for ‘religious’ reasons)fascist, racist, settler cancer occupying Palestine, that specialises in murdering defenceless children, represents ‘MORALITY”.

  191. @Fran Taubman

    Jews CANNOT have a ‘home’ by stealing the home of the Palestinians. That’s International Law, old girl. And ‘Eretz Yisrael’ extends from ‘..the Nile to the Euphrates’, to quote Ben-Gurion, Herzl and numerous others. It can only be done by genocide, but, fortunately, the Torah has the world’s oldest extant description of the ways and means of genocide, and injunctions by the psychopathic Judaic Divinity to commit it, then and now.
    Moreover the Talmud declares that killing civilians, even children and babies, is not just permissible, but is a mitzvah, or good deed. And a whole city, like Gaza, may be destroyed for the ‘crimes’ of a few. It’s no wonder you turned out so Evil.
    By the way, monstrous lies about Mao only reveal your deep, deep, Judaic hatred of the goyim, and the Chinese in particular, because the Chinese don’t buy the Judeosupremacist bull-dust that infects the West (neither do they hate Jews). Moreover, they suffered a vastly greater genocide during Imperial Japanese aggression, from 1931 to 1945, so do not buy the racist garbage that the Nazi Judeocide is ‘unique’ in being more important than ALL other genocides in history, which is just your insufferable egotism and narcissism and contempt for the suffering of others in action.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
    , @Pat Kittle
  192. @mulga mumblebrain

    You are a real weirdo. Very hard to respond to insane comments. Did I ask you this question before? Do you have a job, a girlfriend, married, boyfriend? Do you live in your moms basement with cats? Nothing personal but you sound a tad dangerous. Borderline whatever. I will respond to one lie which is very verifiable.

    Jews CANNOT have a ‘home’ by stealing the home of the Palestinians. That’s International Law, old girl. And ‘Eretz Yisrael’ extends from ‘..the Nile to the Euphrates’, to quote Ben-Gurion, Herzl and numerous others. It can only be done by genocide,

    The Arab Muslim population living in Israel has quadrupled since 1948. Genocide??? Conditions are better for Arabs living in Israel than most Arab countries like Saudi Arabia which still beheads people. More genocide is caused on poor Indians and Pakistans who word save labor and live in tin cans while working on Arab sheiks construction projects. Look it up. The death toll is staggering and they have no escape, their passports are taken away.

    Information like this is more than readily available. Like what is your problem.

    • Replies: @Jack Sparrow
  193. @mulga mumblebrain

    Prove any one of your grave accusations. You might start with the most serious if you think yourself capable of that discrimination.

  194. @mulga mumblebrain

    @Fran Taubman…
    … your insufferable egotism and narcissism and contempt for the suffering of others in action.

    Fran fellowwhite Taubman is fairly adept as leading us goyim down the rabbit hole.

    Go along for the ride, but keep this in mind:

    She considers ALL criticism of Jews, Israel, and/or Zionism to be “Jew hatred” — for which she would gladly see us imprisoned.

    Ask her if she approves of Europeans being imprisoned for questioning her version of WWII. She will adamantly refuse to answer. THAT is (((who))) we’re dealing with here.

  195. Wokechoke says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Rasputin is well known as an opponent of Russian entry into conflict with Germany for ww1. Because of this MI6 called him “Dark Forces” and made sure he got shot in the back of the head by an MI6 agent Oswald Rayner. The famous story about the poisoning, stabbing, multiple shooting, drowning death etc were hype and fake news created by the press. Good cover story.

    https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/Oswald_Rayner

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oswald_Rayner

    Anyway, Rasputin repeatedly told Nicholas not to go to war with Germany. There are letters he wrote to Nicholas to prove it and his eventual assassination by Rayner suggest he was a man who got in the way of a good old war.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  196. @Wokechoke

    What ever you are referring to about Rasputin is more fictional then factual. Rasputin garnered a lot of story telling and mythology.
    He was drunk most of the time and his involvement in the war effort and M16 is mythological and more story telling. Facts are not there to support your idea. Just gossip.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
  197. Wokechoke says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Rayner edited Yusupov’s book that gives an account of the assassination. Lurid tale as of no sexual orgies, cyanide in cakes, drowning.

    That’s a big red flag. The revolver that shot Rasputin was a British service revolver .455. Rare enough in St Petersburg to be the smoking gun.

    Gossip, nah, forensic. The autopsy in the police report said a bullet in the thorax and a .455 headshot did him in.

    Rasputin’s daughter even sued Yusupov for libel in a French court.

  198. @Sanjay.....

    Now that is thinking outside of the box.

  199. anon[271] • Disclaimer says:
    @V. K. Ovelund

    I doubt it. The U.S. could not even achieve a partitioned Afghanistan within 10 years, nor to maintain troops occupying Afghan poppy fields.

    Afghanistan is not the remains of an empire.

    Russia, post Mongol overlords period, has always been an imperial construct: a patchwork of ethnic regions ruled from the main 2 cities of the empire: Moscow and St. Petersburg. This was true during Tsarist Russia, Imperial Russia, Soviet Russia, and now Russian Federation.

    This deep, factual, identity crisis of “Russians” is one of the root causes of their turbulent history.

    As to the Russian military history. Arguably they deserve credit for defeat of Napoleon, but in WW II Russia would have ceased to exist if Allies did not pour support (just like they are doing now for Ukraine) into Soviet Union.

    You can hate anglo-zionist order all you want but let’s be honest: do we really want an order headed by Ivan? Seriously it is such a bad idea that even 1/2 of Russians historically have dreamed and prayed for being integrated into the evil bad lying West.

    • Agree: Fran Taubman, raga10
    • Replies: @Jack Sparrow
  200. @Wokechoke

    I just looked it up. I thought his story was disputed and mythological, put apparently it is considered accurate. I had never heard of it before.

    Thanks

  201. @Wokechoke

    Thanks.

    Nevertheless it’s always amusing to read Fran DeafMan who confuses UK’s Military Intelligence dept 6 with an American rifle the M16.

    Please don’t discourage her too much.
    She might cease posting …

    SIS is the world’s oldest spy agency (founded 1909).
    Many think it’s now just an adjunct of the Mossad, like UK itself.

    • Replies: @Lurker
  202. @raga10

    What you are referring to as Russia in this instance is actually the U.S.S.R and it was their own countrymen in many instances who were ruling over the people in the various parts of the Soviet Union. The only people under Russian rule are Russians. Many of the Russians living in the USSR were as much victims of a foreign power as were Ukrainians, Lithuanians, Belarussians, Estonians, etc.

    • Replies: @raga10
  203. @anon

    Not likely anywhere near half of Russians dream of being in the west. Even among those who do live in the west they could not even be induced to denounce the war in Ukraine at the cost of losing prestigious positions.

  204. @Fran Taubman

    What about the Christian population in Israel since 1948?

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  205. @Fran Taubman

    They were victims of genocide. Are you going to say that their numbers quadrupled?

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  206. raga10 says:
    @Jack Sparrow

    What you are referring to as Russia in this instance is actually the U.S.S.R

    What I am referring to is Russia, which for a time wore the name of Soviet Union but what you call it makes very little difference. There is obvious continuation between the two, starting with the fact that the current leadership, ie, Putin himself, is not a newcomer or an opponent of the previous regime but merely its re-labelled apparatchik. He is also continuing the foreign policy of the previous regime in every way that matters.

    • Replies: @Jack Sparrow
  207. @Jack Sparrow

    What the fuck are you talking about? What genocide? In Israel? You can look up the demographics of the citizens of Israel. But both Arab Muslims and Christians have equal rights inside Israel.

    There are Arab and Christian doctors, lawyers, judges, even heads of hospitals. In the IDF there are Druze which are Christians. You can look this up. The Arabs have a seat in the Knesset which is the Israeli parliament.

    I hope you post some dark web piece. But I have never heard of Israel practicing genocide on the Christian population. That has happened in Egypt and other Muslim countries who consider Christians Infidels. The Christian population in Arabia has dwindled down to nothing but that is not because of the Jews The Jews few all religions as equal.

    • Replies: @Jack Sparrow
  208. Nazareth (Agenzia Fides) – The Christian population of Israel continues the slight numerical growth that has characterized it since the founding of the Jewish state, but also continues its progressive decline in percentage compared to other faith communities – Jews, Muslims and Druze – present in the country. The Israeli Central Statistical Office published these data on Christmas Eve 2021. According to the Israeli Statistics Office, 182,000 Christians currently live in Israel, which corresponds to 1.9 percent of the total population, while the growth rate of the Christian population in the Jewish state in 2020 was 1.4 percent.

    http://www.fides.org/en/news/71437-ASIA_ISRAEL_Christian_population_numerical_growth_with_percentage_decrease_compared_to_other_religions

    • Replies: @Pat Kittle
  209. @Fran Taubman

    Fran fellowwhite Taubman:

    “Jewish lightning” mysteriously destroys ancient Christian churches in the self-proclaimed “Jewish State” (Israel).

    FACT:
    You know this, and have no problem with it.

    FACT:
    Your hatred of gentiles is so extreme you actually approve of throwing us in prison for questioning your version of WWII.

  210. Mike-SMO says:

    Or the Russians will discover that the same defective maintenance that was used on their “Sooper” anti-aircraft system trucks was used on the Moskva, and the system failed when the Ukrainian missiles arrived. Putin is surrounded by “Swamp Creatures” who took the money for upgrades ans maintenance and told the ex-Major what he wanted ro hear. Then the missiles arrived.

    The only question is how much blood will Russia pay to get what Putin wants. Stalin sent millions to their death to defeat Germany. Putin has the same option. Putin can fertilize the black soil of the Ukraine with Russian blood. He hasn’t allowed himself much of an alternative. The Regime in Washington is too senile and conflicted to come up with a solution that will satisfy the players. If you want war, this is how you get a war.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  211. @Mike-SMO

    This is definitely ww3, which I think Putin together with China has wanted all along. Putin will go tactical nuclear. Question how will the West respond. Russia and China want hegemony and they think the West will not fight not fight nuclear. Russia, China, and Iran are willing to fight and die, for their causes. They see no other way to win. West will not respond with nukes.

    I wonder if the West has this gamed out. But this is way worse than the Cuban Missile crisis. This is really it. Putin wants his countries prestige back. We have made Russia a bunch of losers, after the cold war ended.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-us-show-it-can-win-a-nuclear-war-russia-putin-ukraine-nato-sarmat-missile-testing-warning-11651067733?mod=opinion_trending_now_opn_pos2

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/putin-really-may-break-the-nuclear-taboo-russia-ukraine-weapons-attack-war-artillery-shells-fight-11651176309?mod=opinion_lead_pos8

    • Troll: Harold Smith
    • Replies: @mulga mumblebrain
  212. Shystress Fran:

    This is definitely ww3, which I think Putin together with China has wanted all along.

    How typical of (((you))) to pin WWIII on the goyim, when (((your kind))) are pushing it:

    “Ukraine crisis won’t cool off since jew neo-cons want war more than ever”:
    — (https://johndenugent.com/ukraine-crisis-wont-cool-off-since-jew-neo-cons-want-war-more-than-ever/)

    • Agree: GKWillie
  213. @SPRiggs

    You think the US isn’t stealing Iraqi oil?

  214. @Fran Taubman

    Your arguments against the well known and documented genocide of Christians in Israel is somehow disproven by the fact that there are doctors and lawyers who are Christian. The Christian populations was as big as, if not bigger than any other group at one time. So you completely have proven my point that the population is now 1.6 percent. Wow, if that doesn’t prove genocide nothing will. Christians were massacred in huge numbers as were muslim.

  215. @raga10

    The Soviet Union was made up of a number of countries most taken by force. The Soviet Union however is in no way synonymous with Russia which although a huge part of the Soviet Union they are still two very different things. The fact that Putin comes from the Soviet Union does not obscure this basic fact. His career may span both entities and he himself is ethnically Russian but he was not around at the start of the Soviet Union nor was he instrumental in the promotion of and continuation of it. Were that the case then I would agree that your argument has some validity. The legitimate Russian government was deposed in a rebellion including many foreign actors. Therefore it is no longer Russia and they did not call themselves Russia or consider themselves Russia. The Soviet Union also had party officials from other countries other than Russia. I agree that Russia has not completed disowned the Soviet Union as they properly should but have at the same time recognized many of the victims of the Soviet Union as heroes and martyrs. The Russian government today likes to take credit for defeating Hitler’s Germany while at the same time recognizing the history of Russia. I am not sure that any other former soviet countries do the same as Ukraine was much more sympathetic to Nazi Germany.

    See this taken from the web,

    [MORE]

    The Soviet Union was created by the treaty between soviet socialist republics of Belarus, Russian Federation, Transcaucasian Federation and Ukraine, which became union republics of the Soviet Union.

    Ukraine is a small country compared to Russia – but it punched above its weight when it came to political influence within the Soviet Union.
    When Ukraine’s military capabilities are compared to Russia’s, there is an obviously vast difference and a near impossibility that Kiev could resist a full-scale invasion of Moscow’s superior armed forces.

    But in terms of political influence, Ukrainians have shown their guile, dominating political life in Russia’s predecessor state of the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union had ruled between 1922 and 1991 and Ukrainian-origin leaders led the country for more than half of that time.

    Even Vladimir Putin, a Russian nationalist, conceded Ukrainians’ powerful influence on the Soviets.

    “Incidentally, during the Soviet period, natives of Ukraine held major, including the highest, posts in the leadership of the unified state,” wrote Putin, in an article titled “On the Historical Unity of Russians and Ukrainians” last year, referring to the Soviet Union.

    “Suffice it to say that Nikita Khrushchev and Leonid Brezhnev, whose party biography was most closely associated with Ukraine, led the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (CPSU) for almost 30 years,” Putin remarked.

    Beyond Soviet leadership, Ukrainian historical influence over Russia is clear in an inviolable fashion because of the fact that Kiev was the capital of the first Russian state in history, dating back to the 9th century.

    Ukrainian novelists like Nikolai Gogol’s hero Taras Bulba, the story of Ukraine’s famous Cossacks, have also been a great inspiration for many Russian generations for centuries.

    Here is a list of Ukrainians, who led Russian-majority Soviets in the past.

    Nikita Khrushchev

    Khrushchev was born in a Russian village close to the Ukrainian border, but raised in Eastern Ukraine, which is now de facto ruled by pro-Russian rebels backed by Moscow.

    In time, Khrushchev became the head of the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic. After Joseph Stalin’s death, he consolidated power and led the Soviet state between 1953 and 1964.

    Soviet Premier Nikita Khrushchev walks with US President John F. Kennedy in Vienna, Austria. Khrushchev’s love with Ukraine does not echo well in the current Kremlin.
    Soviet Premier Nikita Khrushchev walks with US President John F. Kennedy in Vienna, Austria. Khrushchev’s love with Ukraine does not echo well in the current Kremlin. (AP Archive)
    While Khrushchev was ethnically Russian, he fell in love with Ukraine. There is a definite proof of that, which is the transfer of the Crimean Peninsula’s regional management from the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic (RSFSR) to the Ukrainian SSR, which happened under Khrushchev.

    “It was somewhat symbolic, somewhat trying to reshuffle the centralized system and also, full disclosure, Nikita Khrushchev was very fond of Ukraine, so I think to some degree it was also a personal gesture toward his favorite republic. He was ethnically Russian, but he really felt great affinity with Ukraine,” said Nina Khrushcheva, the great-granddaughter of the former Soviet leader.

    The Crimea’s transfer to Ukraine was a controversial move, angering many including Putin in the Russian establishment. “In 1954, the Crimean Region of the RSFSR was given to the Ukrainian SSR, in gross violation of legal norms that were in force at the time,” Putin said of Khrushchev’s act, which the latter described as a “symbolic gesture”.

    Khrushchev was also known for his de-Stalinisation policy of the Soviets. As part of de-Stalinisation, he also opposed Stalin’s Russification policy, allowing its criticism in communist power circles. In 1953, the Ukrainian Communist Party openly criticised Stalin’s Russification policy. Stalin, a Georgian, was not an ethnic Russian.

    Leonid Brezhnev

    Brezhnev was born and raised in central Ukraine. Some official Soviet documents like his passport also listed his ethnicity as Ukrainian – but others believe he was of Russian descent. Brezhnev was one of Khruschev’s proteges and ruled the Soviet state between 1964 and 1982, the second longest-reigning communist leader of the state after Stalin.

    Soviet Communist Party leader Leonid Brezhnev, right, makes a point in conversation with President Richard Nixon during a Kremlin reception in Moscow, June 27, 1974.
    Soviet Communist Party leader Leonid Brezhnev, right, makes a point in conversation with President Richard Nixon during a Kremlin reception in Moscow, June 27, 1974. (AP)
    Under his leadership, there were several Ukrainians running high offices from the defence ministry to the KGB. During his term, the Soviets reached an equal level with the US in terms of nuclear power and Moscow also gained a lot of leverage over Central and Eastern Europe.

    While Brezhnev’s pragmatic approach helped the Soviets improve their international standing, his anti-reform agenda led to an eventual decline, an era known as Brezhnev Stagnation. After 1975, he mostly withdrew from active politics due to his declining health.

    Konstantin Chernenko

    Chernenko was another Ukrainian, who also reached the upper echelons of Soviet power. He led the communist state for a brief period from 1984 to 1985.

    He rose in the communist party ranks thanks to the help of another Ukrainian, Brezhnev.

    Mikhail Gorbachev

    Gorbachev, whose maternal family had Ukrainian descent and migrated from Chernihiv, a city in northern Ukraine, succeeded Chernenko as the next general secretary of the ruling Soviet Communist Party.

    Gorbachev established the office of the President of the Soviet Union in 1990. He was the first and the last president of the Soviets, overseeing the dissolution of the world’s communist superpower. In total, he had ruled the Soviets from 1985 to 1991.

    Soviet Union’s reformist leader Mikhail Gorbachev, who also had an Ukrainian ancestry, was the country’s last leader, overseeing its dissolution.
    Soviet Union’s reformist leader Mikhail Gorbachev, who also had an Ukrainian ancestry, was the country’s last leader, overseeing its dissolution. (Liu Heung Shing / AP Archive)
    While Gorbachev is liked and praised by many in the Western world and some former Soviet republics for his glasnost (openness) and perestroika (reconstruction) policies, he remains a controversial figure in Russia today. He ran for the presidency in 1996, receiving 0.5 percent of the total vote.

    Gorbachev, a reformist and pro-democracy supporter, provided occasional criticism of Putin’s policies, describing the president’s United Russia party as having “embodied the worst bureaucratic features of the Soviet Communist party”.

    But he also believes that Putin is the best man for Russia. “I am absolutely convinced that Putin protects Russia’s interests better than anyone else,” he said in 2014.

    He was also a critic of the West’s Russia policy, which was conducted in an attitude of “triumphalism”, according to him. He warned the world that Ukrainian escalations could trigger a new Cold War, pointing out that increasing US-Russia tensions create “great concern”.

    Ukraine banned Gorbachev from entering the country after he disclosed his support for Russia’s annexation of Crimea.

    Source: TRT World
    Related News
    The Great Game over the Arctic: Geopolitics from the North Pole to Syria
    The Great Game over the Arctic: Geopolitics from the North Pole to Syria

    So to conflate the Soviet Union and Russia is clearly overlooking major contributions of the Ukraine to this entity and would actually give credence to the argument that Ukraine is rightfully Russia’s which I am not proposing. However the territory in question clearly is Russia’s.

    • Replies: @raga10
  216. @Jack Sparrow

    Your arguments against the well known and documented genocide of Christians in Israel is somehow disproven by the fact that there are doctors and lawyers who are Christian. The Christian populations was as big as, if not bigger than any other group at one time. So you completely have proven my point that the population is now 1.6 percent. Wow, if that doesn’t prove genocide nothing will. Christians were massacred in huge numbers as were muslim.

    What a feckless ignorant response. You present no data just BS. If there was huge numbers of Muslims and Christians massacred wouldn’t there be some data backing that up like we see in Ukraine or China. etc. Bodies, burials. photos. You cannot massacre millions of people for religious reasons and not get noticed. Look at genocide of Muslims in China. Much written about it. Do you have any evidence siting this. Where is the well documented evidence of genocide of Christians in Israel? Where?

    You can look up the demographics of ethnicities inside of Israel. See below. The Christian population in Muslim Arabia is very small because the Muslims massacred them. That is proven. 1949 when Israel was founded there was 34,000 Christian. In 2019 The Christian population grew to 180,000. The Arab Muslim population grew from 110,00 in 1949 to 1.6 million in 2019. Where is the genocide? If you google genocide of Christians inside Israel you find nothing. Because there is none. There is no evidence because there is no genocide of anyone inside Israel. Why not trade there and see for yourself. All the religions go about their business together. You are just a flat out liar.

    If one looks at the entire table of the growth of the various religious communities in the State of Israel since its founding, one finds, for example, that the number of Christians in the Jewish state totaled 34,000 in 1949, in 1970 it was 75,000, in 1990 almost 115,000 and more than 180,000 in 2019.
    Over the same period, Israel’s Muslim population grew from more than 111,000 (in 1949) to over 1.6 million in 2019. The number of Jews, which was around 1.17 million in 1949, had risen to 6.69 million in 2019. The growth rates of the Christian population in Israel are consistently lower than those of the Jewish and Islamic sections of Israeli society. A certain similarity can only be found with the Druze growth figures, the number of which was less than 15,000 in 1949 and increased to 143,000 in 2019.

    • Replies: @d dan
    , @mulga mumblebrain
  217. @Jack Sparrow

    So easy to disprove your allegation of genocide of Christians inside of Israel that is scary and sickening. The Christian population has diminished to the point of genocide in all of the ARAB MUSLIM countries to the point of genocide.

    See below. Read it and weep at how wrong you are.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/02/persecution-driving-christians-out-of-middle-east-report

    Persecution of Christians ‘coming close to genocide’ in Middle East – report
    Not Israel!!!

    In the Middle East and north Africa, the report says, “forms of persecution ranging from routine discrimination in education, employment and social life up to genocidal attacks against Christian communities have led to a significant exodus of Christian believers from this region since the turn of the century.
    “In countries such as Algeria, Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Syria and Saudi Arabia the situation of Christians and other minorities has reached an alarming stage. In Saudi Arabia there are strict limitations on all forms of expression of Christianity including public acts of worship. There have been regular crackdowns on private Christian services. The Arab-Israeli conflict has caused the majority of Palestinian Christians to leave their homeland. ”

    • Replies: @A123
    , @Jack Sparrow
  218. A123 says: • Website
    @Fran Taubman

    You are 100% correct.

    The greatest threat to Christians are violent Muslims. Month after month after month, Muslim Jihadists shout “Allah Is Greater Than God” (Alluh Ahkbar) and butcher defenseless followers of Jesus: (1)

    The following are among the abuses Muslims inflicted on Christians throughout the month of March, 2022:

    *The Muslim Slaughter of Christians*

    Iraq: Family members murdered Eman Sami Maghdid, 20, known as “Maria.” Her “crime” was having embraced Christianity and abandoning the marriage she had been forced into at the age of 12. Her 18-year-old brother and perhaps uncle responded by slaughtering her on Sunday, March 6. Her body “tied with a tape, thrown at the side of the road, with many stab wounds,” was found later, according to a local source:

    “[S]he was punished by her family for leaving Islam, specifically for being emancipated and embracing the Christian religion; in short, she was ‘guilty’ of apostasy…. The young woman was well known for her activism, her struggle for women’s rights, which—together with her conversion to Christianity—led her to be condemned by her family….

    Islam has ethnically cleansed Bethlehem. (2)

    In 1947, Christians made up 85% of the population, but by 1998 the figure had declined to 40%.

    .”The Palestinian Authority is officially committed to equality for Christians, although there have been incidents of violence against them by the Preventive Security Service and militant factions.

    The phrase “officially committed to equality for Christians” is of course code. Minimal code breaking shows the translation, “enthusiastically committed to violence against Christians“.

    The Muslim Occupation of Judea and Sumaria [MOJS] has an obvious cause and resolution

        • Jihadist Colonies are the Problem
        • Islamic Decolonization is the Answer

    There is no other way.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/18464/persecution-of-christians-march

    (2) https://www.liquisearch.com/bethlehem/demographics/christian_population

    • Troll: mulga mumblebrain
    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  219. Sparkon says:
    @davidgmillsatty

    Photos do not appear to be a missile. When a missile hits a ship it punches a hole in the side of the ship and the hole creates a path of least resistance causing the walls of the ship to blow out.

    Here is a picture of an Indian test not long ago of a BraHmos missile striking an old target ship. You will notice the blowout of the walls.


    Thanks for posting this. However, a path of least resistance has no force, and some force was required to peel back the ship’s hull like that.

    The supersonic, two-stage BrahMos missile is named after rivers in India and Russia. In this test, two BrahMos missiles were fired at the unidentified, abandoned Indian vessel. The first missile, which presumably made this hole, did not have a warhead. The ship was then hit by a second missile, fired by an Su30, which did have an active warhead, and sunk the vessel.

    India has test-fired the anti-ship variant of its BrahMos cruise missile, striking and creating a massive hole in an abandoned Indian Navy ship.

    Demonstrating its integrated Network-Centric strike capabilities, the cruise missile was fired without a warhead from the guided-missile destroyer INS Delhi.

    In an interview with ANI News Agency, officials stated that the missile travels at a speed of around 3,000 kilometers (1,864 miles) per hour, making it difficult to intercept by air defense systems.

    The BrahMos was also fired from an Su30-MKI fighter aircraft on Tuesday, hitting the same abandoned ship and sinking it.

    https://www.thedefensepost.com/2022/04/21/india-brahmos-missile-trials/

    To be sure, there is not much in common between the supersonic BrahMos and the subsonic Neptune, nor between this unidentified Indian vessel and the Moskva, now lying in 50 meters of water beneath the Black Sea.

    Apparently, the hole in the Indian vessel was created by the kinetic force of the unarmed BrahMos, but I can’t explain how or why its hull peeled back like that.

  220. @A123

    How you been A123? Did we do a good job of getting AnonStarter, and his Aki Talha off UR? They could not match our facts and truth to their ridiculous self righteous Muslim BS. Claiming all the discord in the ME was due to the biblical Jews being cast aside by Allah, we the fallen, and them the new light with their third temple Al Aqsa. Nothing to do with the Muslims and infidels.
    I really believe we outmatched them at every turn and they left because they were seen for who they were, clueless and unable to defend Islamist nihilism as religious fanatics. I am proud of us.

    • Agree: A123
  221. d dan says:
    @Fran Taubman

    “Look at genocide of Muslims in China. ”

    Asshole, keep your lies to yourself. When your type is being genocide next time, don’t come to China to beg for help.

    “Much written about it.”

    As if it makes a difference. Yes, “much written”, by many assholes like you.

    • Agree: mulga mumblebrain
  222. raga10 says:
    @Jack Sparrow

    So your argument largely revolves around the fact that some individuals from conquered areas rose to prominence within USSR – fine, I don’t deny it. That doesn’t change the fact that on the whole those are now the countries that seem to be most fearful of return of Russian rule. Starting with Ukraine: whatever historical arguments you might want to list, the fact on the ground is that most of Ukrainian population living there right now is currently busy demonstrating as clearly as possible and often at great personal cost that they want nothing to do with Russia.

    Or take a look at Poland – their dislike of Russians might almost seem pathological, but it is the result of their long and complicated history as neighbours, history much predating USSR. It was Russia and not Soviet Union that dismantled Poland as a nation for something like 100 years. Of course, the Soviet years didn’t help either.

    As for the issue of continuity between two regimes, it was discussed at length when USSR was dissolved and Russian Federation formed in its place. At stake was the seat on the UN Security Council: if Russian Federation was a completely new entity there would be no particular reason for it to hold the seat assigned to Soviet Union. Since Russians wanted that seat, they argued strenuously in favour of being considered a continuation, rather than a brand new state.

    So know that when you argue in favour of completely uncoupling today’s Russia from its past, you are actually arguing against their own understanding on this issue.

    • Agree: Fran Taubman
    • Replies: @Jack Sparrow
  223. @Sparkon

    I am told that the black areas near the water are torpedo tubes and the black areas are burn marks from them but I don’t know.

    At any rate you can clearly see the blowouts on the Sheffield and you can see them on the Stark. I was not able to upload either or I would have. You can find images of the Stark online. The blow outs on the Stark are even more pronounced.

    And when you look at the two areas of damage on the Moskva they are not alike. In one you clearly have damage above deck and on the other you don’t. There is not even a fire on the side rear.

    The Stark, the Sheffield and the Indian target all look very similar and the Moskva is the odd man out.

  224. @Sparkon

    The blast follows the path of least resistance.

  225. @Sparkon

    At comment 67 there is a video and if you stop it at 49 seconds you will see two huge inserts(?) in the side of the ship that are obviously part of the ship before it was hit and it looks like these two areas are where the two main areas of damage were on the ship. So I am even more convinced that this was not a missile strike.

    I don’t see anything like torpedo tubes. It looks like ports where smoke was coming out.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  226. Sparkon says:
    @davidgmillsatty

    At comment 67 there is a video and if you stop it at 49 seconds you will see two huge inserts(?) in the side of the ship that are obviously part of the ship before it was hit and it looks like these two areas are where the two main areas of damage were on the ship. So I am even more convinced that this was not a missile strike.

    The vessel pictured at that point in the video is not even the Moskva, which can be determined rather easily by the lack of the missile tubes on her foredeck, and even more decisively by vessel’s hull number, 494 in the video, while Moskva’s hull number was 121.

    At any rate you can clearly see the blowouts on the Sheffield

    No I can’t, and I doubt anyone else can see that effect “clearly” either. Please examine closely (right click, open in new tab) the image of the stricken HMS Sheffield I posted in the comment to which you are replying, my #173, and this one:

    Image: The Star

    No, I’d say the odd man out is the Indian vessel, with its skin peeled out and back like that, an effect visible on none of the other ships hit by subsonic cruise missiles, while BrahMos is a supersonic cruise missile, so it is not too far-fetched to think it would have a different kinetic impact effect than a subsonic missile.

    Look at this image of the USS Stark, which did not sink, her survival due to quick action by captain and crew, and relatively close proximity to port, but the image, like that of the Sheffield, does bear some similarity to that single, smokey image of the Moskva

    Again, according to Indian sources, the first BrahMos missile to strike the unidentified, abandoned Indian vessel did not have a warhead, so there could be no blowout at that stage from the missile’s explosive force, because it didn’t have one, path of least resistance notwithstanding. Further, the Indian vessel apparently was not underway. It was abandoned and dead in the water. We have no pictures of the vessel sinking or about to sink, so comparative photo analysis can be taken only so far in this case.

    If there is anything clear from the image of the stricken Moskva it is the incontrovertible fact she is listing severely to port, and obviously must have been taking on water at that stage, meaning her hull was ruptured.

    The photo evidence we do have does not rule out that the Moskva was indeed hit and sunk by a missile or missiles, and in fact supports that argument to some degree.

    • Replies: @davidgmillsatty
  227. Anonymous[907] • Disclaimer says:

    List of the weapons and ammo the USA warmonger whores have sent to Ukraine.
    https://www.zerohedge.com/military/dod-sends-phoenix-ghost-kamikaze-drones-ukraine

  228. @raga10

    I believe in the areas in the east and south the Ukrainians largely are favorable to the Russians liberating those former Russian areas from the Ukraine. The government in Kieve is extremely unpopular there and this is why a war has been waged for eight years against this region. This is verified by people on the ground reporting from those areas. People there view the Russians as liberators. I am not aware of the history of Russia in Poland and when you made the comment regarding peoples under Russian rule I assumed that you meant Ukraine and were conflating the Soviet Union with Russia. At least parts of Ukraine absolutely desire to be under Russian rule. I don’t believe that the Russians have any interest in taking on the dumpster fire that is the whole of Ukraine and are probably indifferent to the western part of Ukraine and which country grabs what. Whatever Russia did to maintain a seat in the U.N. does not strengthen the argument that USSR and Russia are the same. The Ukraine did not just have a few prominent people in the USSR but were one of four main groups that came together under communism to form the USSR. People in these areas were under communist rule that was managed by the part of the USSR that was the Ukrainian component. Were there Russians there? Sure, just as Ukrainians ruled over Russians. One thing is clear Russians under Ukrainian rule are very unhappy with the situation as they are being discriminated against as a minority in what is rightfully Russian territory.

    • Replies: @raga10
  229. @Fran Taubman

    So there is no discrimination of Christians in Israel? Do they hold office in the Knesset? Can they be elected to run the country? Prior to the state of Israel there was no genocide of Christians by muslims and pointing out muslim crimes against Christians does not disprove jewish crimes against the Christian population. Saudi Arabia is not Palestine. Until the U.S and Israel started a war in Syria to oust Assad the Christian population was thriving in that country. Many have been murdered and killed due to the funding of jihadists by both the U.S. and Israel. Can you even pretend this hasn’t happened? For my part I will make no more response to your lies as that is all you have.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  230. @Jack Sparrow

    There is a lot, I mean a lot of history written on the subject of discrimination of religious minorities within Israel. The history of religious minorities within Arab countries in the ME. . Why don’t you goggle and or order some books and read up on the subject instead of asking stupid questions.

    Here is a list of Arabs in the Israeli Knesset? Muslims and Christian Druze. There are Christian Druze that are generals in the IDF.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arab_members_of_the_Knesset

    There has been ethnic and religions fighting between peoples, since the beginning of time. Do you recall the Crusaders? The Muslim sacking of the Spain and Europe for Islamization. o say that all was well between Christians and Muslims before Israel is just ignorant. You won’t respond to my comments because you are an ignorant buffoon.

    So there is no discrimination of Christians in Israel? Do they hold office in the Knesset?

    I have answered the above proving that there are Arab Christians inside the Knesset. Let me ask you a question.

    Name me one Christian or Jew who has ever been in any government seat in any Muslim land inside the ME. Egypt, Iran, Bahrain, Lebanon, UE, Turkey. The list goes on. Not only are the Jews not in the government. There are no Jews period. NONE. All of Arabia had thriving Jewish communities in countries like Iraq. There are no Jews there because they were kicked out. Have any Christians been in government in Syria prior to the civil war? They may have been tolerated but they were never running the country.

    Sorry to burst your bubble but Israel is the least discriminatory country in the ME. Open to all as long as they are not Jihadist and Islamist who do not recognize the right of Israel to exist.

  231. Al Liguori says: • Website
    @Fran Taubman

    Is genocide “discrimination”?

  232. raga10 says:
    @Jack Sparrow

    I don’t believe that the Russians have any interest in taking on the dumpster fire that is the whole of Ukraine and are probably indifferent to the western part of Ukraine and which country grabs what.

    Well, I see it differently – I think Russian regime doesn’t especially care about small minority of Russians in Donbas who might be unhappy there, except as a convenient excuse. It’s the rest of the Ukraine that they want, and beyond that, the rest of the Soviet empire that they lost: Baltic states, Poland, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria… Russia, whatever label it happens to be wearing at the time, is always just another imperialist bully.

    You have to be blind not to see that Russian original plan was to drive into Kyiv quickly, topple the current government and install their own puppet in its place, like the one in Belarus. This plan failed miserably, so they switched to plan B: take a chunk of Ukraine now, and wait for the next opportunity to take the rest.

    Afghanistan confronted with a smaller and less well equipped Taliban folded within a week with barely a whimper: it is obvious this was a country and society that didn’t care one bit about its shape and form, which was clearly imposed on them from the outside.
    Ukraine is still fighting on, two months into the conflict against much superior enemy. This is obviously a country and society that values its independence, rallies behind its government and does not want to be assimilated into Russia.

    Whatever Russia did to maintain a seat in the U.N. does not strengthen the argument that USSR and Russia are the same.

    I gave you the direct example of what Russian official position on this matter is, and you don’t think that is relevant at all?

  233. raga10 says:
    @Fran Taubman

    o say that all was well between Christians and Muslims before Israel is just ignorant.

    Yeah, Germans had muslim units in WWII (see: Free Arabian Legion). No doubt many volunteers to those units simply wanted to earn some cash, but none of them seemed to have any problem with exterminating Jews. So clearly, all was not well in Palestine long before the state of Israel was formed.

    Interesting reference to this point: https://www.camera.org/article/anti-jewish-violence-in-pre-state-palestine-1929-massacres/

    • Replies: @Al Liguori
  234. Al Liguori says: • Website
    @raga10

    What a crock of hasbara!

    The Jews have ALWAYS been the terrorists: https://judaism.is/genocide.html

    They have not yet received the full measure of their just desserts and they have always had an excuse for violating even their own laws. From the Talmud, Shevuot 39a:

    “Kol Yisrael areivim zeh ba-zeh” • “All Jews are responsible for each other”

    http://traditionarchive.org/news/_pdfs/0035-0050.pdf

    Keep (((their))) principle in mind. All Jews are responsible, hence even families for generations are responsible for Soros, Trotsky, the Kaganovichs, Pfizer’s Borla, Meyer Lansky, and the millennia of Jewish genocidalists and miscreants. Through the generations they all must be punished collectively because their own laws affirm their collective guilt. Hoist them on their own petard exactly as they swore in Matthew 27:25.

    Shevuot 39a is worth your reading: https://www.sefaria.org/Shevuot.39a?ven=William_Davidson_Edition_-_English&vhe=Wikisource_Talmud_Bavli&lang=bi

    • Troll: mulga mumblebrain
  235. @Sparkon

    Here is the Stark:

    And here is the Sheffield:

    There are blow outs on both of them like I said.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  236. Nice try but inconsistent.

    Assuming the veracity of the preceding paragraph (#3) about an “asymmetrical, lethal, and fast” response from Russia should NATO be culpable of sinking the Moskva and the lack of a said badass attack, this (succeeding) paragraph doesn’t work:
    “As a direct consequence of hitting the Moskva, NATO managed to reopen an air corridor for the transfer of aircraft to the airfields of Chernivtsi, Transcarpathian and Ivano-Frankivsk regions.”

    The ordinary and direct inference from that paragraph is that NATO sunk the Moskva. But I’m sure that the author can wiggle out of it from his (“his” used in the OED sense lest I be judged and pilloried as non-PC) prior equivocation.

    I’m guessing that my old friend from Cal, Graham Seibert (sometimes quoted by Unz) would have mentioned such an “asymmetrical, lethal, and fast” response in his daily reports from Kiev.

  237. Sparkon says:
    @davidgmillsatty

    There are blow outs on both of them like I said

    Both missiles that struck the Stark and the Sheffield had powerful warheads that exploded forcefully, so there is no real mystery about the damage done to either vessel. Your blow outs just weren’t very clear in some of the images, and still do not look like the damage done by the BrahMos.

    Unfortunately, you muddied the waters with that bogus video, and also by bringing in the Indian BrahMos test. My point was the peeled back skin of the Indian vessel doesn’t look like the damage to Stark or Sheffield, but it’s an irrelevant, apples-to-oranges comparison anyway, as the BrahMos is supersonic, the first one in the Indian test didn’t even have a warhead, and we have just one image with no details about when it was taken.

    By contrast, as we’ve seen, there are numerous good images of the Stark and the Sheffield after they were hit, but the blow outs are not clearly visible on all of them, while we have but a single, rather poor quality image of the stricken Moskva, with the area in question veiled by smoke, in shadow, and already partially submerged, so again, photoanalysis can take us only so far in this case, but there is nothing in the image of the stricken Moskva to rule out a missile strike.

    I’m pretty certain that the Moskva sank. The most likely explanation is her hull was ruptured by the force of an explosion. I’ve read that the Ukrainians were reporting in timely fashion on social media to have hit the Moskva with their Neptune cruise missiles. Indeed, most “reputable” U.S. defense authorities are now saying that the Moskva was hit and sunk by a pair of Neptune anti-ship cruise missiles, for whatever that is worth.

    Theoretically at least, and by most accounts, the Moskva should have been able to detect the Neptunes and defend herself against them, but the other side of the coin is she was an aging vessel, and we have little knowledge of the state of training and readiness of her crew. At the same time, the Neptune is a modern missile that was only quite recently introduced into service, and may have a trick or two up its sleeve. It’s not unreasonable to think if anyone would know the Moskva’s vulnerabilities, it would be either the Ukrainians, or the Americans.

    Additionally, please keep in mind, the United States and other NATO members have sent a load of modern weapons (and presumably military technology and intelligence) to Ukraine since Russia invaded.

    Finally, you may have noticed certain parties trying to derail this discussion about the sinking of the Moskva. I wonder why.

  238. peterAUS says:
    @Sparkon

    ….the Sheffield had powerful warheads that exploded forcefully,….

    The easiest/quickest:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Sheffield_(D80)#On_Sheffield

    The Exocet that struck Sheffield hit her on the starboard side at deck level 2, travelling through the junior ratings’ scullery and breaching the Forward Auxiliary Machinery Room/Forward Engine Room bulkhead 2.4 metres (7.9 ft) above the waterline, creating a hole in the hull roughly 1.2 metres (3.9 ft) by 3 metres (9.8 ft). Contemporary accounts suggested that the missile failed to explode, despite disabling the ship’s electrical distribution systems and breaching the pressurised sea water fire main. The damage to the fire system severely hampered any firefighting response and eventually doomed the ship to be consumed by the fire.

  239. raga10 says:
    @Sparkon

    Theoretically at least, and by most accounts, the Moskva should have been able to detect the Neptunes and defend herself against them, but the other side of the coin is she was an aging vessel, and we have little knowledge of the state of training and readiness of her crew.

    I watched a youtube clip posted by somebody who appears to be a Danish Naval officer, titled “Bad design can kill: Missile defense and user fatigue”.

    He points out that it would be unlikely that Ukrainian drone distracted Moskva – the ship is capable of dealing with multiple targets and a drone would not just fail to distract the crew but it would have the opposite effect: it would actually alert them that something was happening. But otherwise, sheer boredom of watching blank screens for hours at a time probably made the crew not as sharp as they could be.

    According to him (and I think that’s logical enough) it is easier to get the optimal performance from the crew during exercises that go for limited amount of time and everyone knows that something is about to happen, but maintaining the same level of readiness day after day is another matter.

    His opinion was that systems on Russian ships are older and less automated than the western ones and they are capable enough when operated by crew that is skilled and alert, but their performance drops off sharply when crew is at anything less than their best.

    It made sense to me. Anyway, here’s the clip if you’re interested:

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  240. Sparkon says:
    @raga10

    maintaining the same level of readiness day after day is another matter.

    Sure, that’s why I cited crew training and readiness, as well as the advanced age of Moskva, which may not have had modern and/or comfortable facilities for the crew.

    I worked on rotating shifts during two overseas tours with the USAF, and they are very grueling, and can grind one to a pulp. However, we AF shiftworkers did get a period of recovery, or “long break” after completing a cycle of days, swings and mids. That rotating, cycling shift work required four separate but complete crews or “tricks” to man positions 24/7/365. And mids, aka the graveyard shift, were always a struggle, giving us bleeding eyelids of lead, figuratively speaking, and possible real, long-term health consequences.

    I don’t know how the Russian navy (VMF) does it, but standing on station in a war zone for a lengthy period is bound to grind down the crew’s readiness, and there was no back-up for the Moskva in the Black Sea. I wonder if the Russians had considered moving another of their Slava class cruisers, Marshal Ustinov from the Northern Fleet into the Black Sea before Feb. 24, 2022.

    To summarize: If missiles sank the Moskva, there seem to be two possible ways it might have happened: 1) crew fatigue and/or inattention 2) new EW technology, which was capable of spoofing, jamming, eluding or otherwise defeating the Moskva’s anti-missile defenses.

  241. peterAUS says:

    To summarize: If missiles sank the Moskva, there seem to be two possible ways it might have happened: 1) crew fatigue and/or inattention 2) new EW technology, which was capable of spoofing, jamming, eluding or otherwise defeating the Moskva’s anti-missile defenses.

    There is also 3) system failure due to poor quality of material and/or poor maintenance.

    Personally, I don’t believe the cause of sinking was an (enemy) missile, but we won’t know the truth for some time.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  242. @Sparkon

    Sorry, I am not convinced. But, as you say, since we do not have any really good photos of the Moskva, we will have to wait to see if the Russians raise it (I have heard they might) and tell us what they find , if they ever do.

    I originally thought the Russians were going to use the sinking of the ship as an excuse to really ramp up the bombing campaign since the Ukrainians said they sank it. Some sort of retaliation would have made sense. But nothing changed much and as I recall they made statements that the sinking did not affect their plans in any way.

    Plus two smaller boats got sunk a couple of days ago purportedly by missiles from a Ukrainian drone and it seems like Russia admits this is the case. But they did not admit the Moskva was hit by missiles.

    I think it was sabotage.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  243. Sparkon says:
    @peterAUS

    Sure, training and maintenance are very large factors of readiness, which I inadvertently excluded from my 1). All equipment and weapons must be both modern, and in top notch condition, with well-rested personnel manning them. Fatigue always results in reduced readiness.

    A good military organization has reserves, so that units, equipment and personnel can be taken off line every so often for PM (preventive maintenance), refit, and R&R (rest and recuperation).

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  244. Sparkon says:
    @davidgmillsatty

    since the Ukrainians said they sank it. Some sort of retaliation would have made sense.

    Russia did retaliate directly, at least according to the Wikipedia article, citing Reuters:

    Although Russia did not confirm that Ukrainian missiles had hit the ship, Reuters reported that in the morning of 15 April, Russia launched an apparent retaliatory missile strike against the missile factory Luch Design Bureau in Kyiv, where the Neptune missiles allegedly used in the attack were designed and manufactured.

    The article goes on to describe a postage stamp:

    The sinking of Moskva came two days after Ukrposhta released one million “Russian warship, go fuck yourself” stamps, which show a soldier giving the finger to Moskva.


    Image:Wikimedia

    Yes, the Moskva was a big, juicy target sitting out there…

    There is also some speculation about other missiles, along with EW technology that may have been supplied to Ukraine recently by Western countries, that could have been deployed and launched against the Moskva to sink her.

    Russian commentator Sergei Markov, a strong Kremlin supporter, told the BBC Radio 4’s The World at One that the cruiser had been struck by missiles shipped from Norway, and that her electronic defenses had been neutralised by the USA. Other…media.. speculated that the ship had been hit by a Norwegian AGM-119 Penguin missile.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Moskva#Aftermath

  245. peterAUS says:
    @Sparkon

    Correct.

    We know that RF surface fleet got less resources/attention than their ground conventional forces.

    We see the level of manning, training, maintenance, and overall expertise in those ground forces. We can safely assume that all of that is even worse in the surface fleet. Adding the age of the ship into the account.

    I am, personally, positive that the fire was result of an internal error. Human (corruption, training, discipline, whatever), hardware, software, doesn’t matter. The error created the initial fire.
    Similar errors, then, allowed the fire to spread through the ship and, ultimately, lost the cruiser.

    Bottom line: the systemic weakness within RF Navy sank the ship, IMHO.

    That’s boring for Internet people and humiliating for RF. As for NATO it’s better to emphasize a missile attack.

    My take, anyway.

  246. @Fran Taubman

    Well, Fran, you well know that there are Jews in Iran, with a guaranteed seat in the Iranian Parliament. The other communities were hollowed out after the Nakbah, when they were ordered by the Zionazis to move to Israel, and when hesitant, the MOSSAD committed a few false flag bombings to hasten the exodus.
    Moreover when the massacres, murders, torture, rape and ethnic cleansing committed by Zionazi terrorists in the Nakbah became known, there were locals who attacked Jews, some for nefarious purposes of theft. Of course Israel is easily the most discriminatory country in a very poor field in the Middle East. It is the second most economically unequal country in the OECD, with Israeli Arabs second class citizens with at least sixty discriminatory laws and regulations targeting them, the imprisoned Palestinians third class or worse, guest workers fourth class and illegal immigrants fifth class.
    Furthermore, among Jews themselves, the Orthodox and Ultra-Orthodox are dominant in religious affairs, controlling the definition of a Jew, of Jewish marriage etc, and their head-bobbers sit in their yeshivas (and the brothels)all day, doing nothing, while subsidised by the State. You really are brainwashed Fran. Do you realise that the hate-crazed intransigence of Jews like you make Israel’s destruction, definitely an Evil, more likely, or have you got a bad dose of the Masadas?

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  247. @Fran Taubman

    Only a real Zionazi psychopath would reference the entirely fraudulent ‘genocide’ of Uighurs in China, then double down on Zionazi Big Lying by LUDICROUSLY asserting that this villainous filth has NOT been ‘..much written about’, when there are mountains of false writings concerning it. What is ACTUALLY NEVER mention in the West are the multitudinous crimes against humanity of the Zionazi regime. No surprise seeing that Zionazis own and control the Western MSM.

  248. @Fran Taubman

    Of course a flagrant psychopath like this Zionazi will accuse others of that which she most desires. The Zionazis have long threatened that if their horror regime is placed in existential danger, that they would ‘..take the world down with us’, by means of their large nuclear arsenal. Are you actually a vicious ‘antisemite’, determined to make people hate Jews by acting so vilely?

  249. @mulga mumblebrain

    What? Only one seat in the Iranian parliament for a tiny minority like the Jews! You’ve got to be joking! You know very well that although being a tiny minority in the general population they don’t want to be restricted to only one seat in the government- they want many more seats in government like they get elsewhere from US to the Ukraine and in-between. Now if you started reserving/ restricting seats for them in western parliamentd based on their minority status there would be an outcry and they would mobilise all their shabbaz goyim to complain that it is some kind of discrimination, anti-Semitism, whatever. They have to rule, or else…

  250. Sparkon says:

    Breaking news this morning May 6, 2022 reports that the Russian frigate Admiral Makarov has been hit by a Ukrainian missile and is ablaze near Snake Island.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/breaking-russias-admiral-makarov-warship-26889015

    NBC and other U.S. media were reporting on their 5/5 evening news that U.S. intelligence helped sink the Moskva.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  251. Sparkon says:
    @Sparkon

    The Wikipedia article on Admiral Makarov has been updated with the lastest information from a May 7, 2022 article in Liga, showing that
    the Russian frigate Admiral Makarov has not been sunk.

    Google Translate’s machine translation of the Liga article:

    Arestovich denies rumors of sinking of Russian frigate Admiral Makarov

    The Armed Forces of Ukraine attacked the Russian invaders on and near Zmeiny Island, sinking a landing boat of the Serna type, and earlier reports about the destruction or damage to the Russian Black Sea Fleet frigate Admiral Makarov turned out to be fake. Aleksey Arestovich, adviser to the head of the President’s Office, spoke about this in the Feigin Live podcast.

    “No Makarov was sunk, of course,” said speaker Bankova.

    He added that “it was some kind of misunderstanding.”

    Answering the question of where the information about “Makarov” came from then, he suggested that it could have been “thrown” by the Russian military themselves from the forces of information and psychological operations “under the guise of a Ukrainian account on social networks.”

    Such things are done in order, he added, to discredit the Ukrainian and Western press – “look, they say they are lying, they announced, but there is nothing like that.”

    https://news.liga.net/politics/news/arestovich-oproverg-sluhi-o-potoplenii-rossiyskogo-fregata-admiral-makarov

  252. I was told by a former CIA contact the Uke drones were bait, and when the ship’s ammo was depleted, the missiles were sent in for the kill.

    • LOL: peterAUS
Current Commenter
says:

Leave a Reply - Comments on articles more than two weeks old will be judged much more strictly on quality and tone


 Remember My InformationWhy?
 Email Replies to my Comment
$
Submitted comments have been licensed to The Unz Review and may be republished elsewhere at the sole discretion of the latter
Commenting Disabled While in Translation Mode
Subscribe to This Comment Thread via RSS Subscribe to All Pepe Escobar Comments via RSS
PastClassics
Analyzing the History of a Controversial Movement
The Shaping Event of Our Modern World
The Surprising Elements of Talmudic Judaism