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Everything about US-China hinges on the result of the upcoming US presidential election.

Trump 2.0 essentially would turbo-charge its bet on decoupling, aiming to squeeze “malign” China on a multiple Hybrid War front, undermine the Chinese trade surplus, co-opt large swathes of Asia, while always insisting on characterizing China as evil incarnate.

Team Biden, even as it professes no desire to fall into the trap of a new Cold War, according to the Dem official platform, would be only slightly less confrontational, ostensibly “saving” the “rules-based order” while keeping Trump-enacted sanctions.

Very few Chinese analysts are better positioned to survey the geopolitical and geoeconomic chessboard than Lanxin Xiang: expert on relations between China, US and Europe, professor of History and International Relations at the IHEID in Geneva and director of the Center for One Belt, One Road Studies in Shanghai.

Xiang got his PhD at SAIS at Johns Hopkins, and is as well respected in the US as in China. During a recent webinar he laid out the lineaments of an analysis the West ignores at its own peril.

Xiang has been focusing on the Trump administration’s push to “redefine an external target”: a process he brands, “risky, dangerous, and highly ideological”. Not because of Trump – who is “not interested in ideological issues” – but due to the fact that the “China policy was hijacked by the real Cold Warriors”. The objective: “regime change. But that was not Trump’s original plan.”

Xiang blasts the rationale behind these Cold Warriors: “We made a huge mistake in the past 40 years”. That is, he insists, “absurd – reading back into History, and denying the entire history of US-China relations since Nixon.” And Xiang fears the “lack of overall strategy. That creates enormous strategic uncertainty – and leads to miscalculations.”

Compounding the problem, “China is not really sure what the US wants to do.” Because it goes way beyond containment – which Xiang defines as a “very well thought of strategy by George Kennan, the father of the Cold War.” Xiang only detects a pattern of “Western civilization versus a non-Caucasian culture. That language is very dangerous. It’s a direct rehash of Samuel Huntington, and shows very little room for compromise.”

In a nutshell, that’s the “American way of stumbling into a Cold War.”

An October Surprise?

All of the above directly connects with Xiang’s great concern about a possible October Surprise: “It could probably be over Taiwan. Or a limited engagement in the South China Sea.” He stresses, “Chinese military people are terribly worried. October Surprise as a military engagement is not unthinkable, because Trump may want to re-establish a war presidency.”

For Xiang, “if Biden wins, the danger of a Cold War turning Hot War will be reduced dramatically.” He is very much aware of shifts in the bipartisan consensus in Washington: “Historically, Republicans don’t care about human rights and ideology. Chinese always preferred to deal with Republicans. They can’t deal with Democrats – human rights, values issues. Now the situation is reversed.”

Xiang, incidentally, “invited a top Biden adviser to Beijing. Very pragmatic. Not too ideological.” But in case of a possible Trump 2.0 administration, everything could change: “My hunch is he will be totally relaxed, may even reverse China policy 180 degrees. I would not be surprised. He would turn back to being Xi Jinping’s best friend.”

As it stands, the problem is “a chief diplomat that behaves as a chief propagandist, taking advantage of an erratic president.”

And that’s why Xiang never rules out even an invasion of Taiwan by Chinese troops. He games the scenario of a Taiwanese government announcing, “We are independent” coupled with a visit by the Secretary of State: “That would provoke a limited military action, and could turn into an escalation. Think about Sarajevo. That worries me. If Taiwan declares independence, Chinese invade in less than 24 hours. “

How Beijing miscalculates

Unlike most Chinese scholars, Xiang is refreshingly frank about Beijing’s own shortcomings: “Several things should have been better controlled. Like abandoning Deng Xiaoping’s original advice that China should bide its time and keep a low profile. Deng, in his last will, had set a timeline for that, at least 50 years.”

The problem is “the speed of China’s economic development led to hot headed, and premature, calculations. And a not well thought of strategy. ‘Wolf warrior’ diplomacy is an extremely assertive posture – and language. China began to upset the US – and even the Europeans. That was a geostrategic miscalculation.”

And that brings us to what Xiang characterizes as “the overextension of Chinese power: geopolitical and geoconomic.” He’s fond of quoting Paul Kennedy: “Any great superpower, if overstretched, becomes vulnerable.”

Xiang goes as far as stating that the Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) – whose concept he enthusiastically praises – may be overstretched: “They thought it was a purely economic project. But with such wide global reach?”

So is BRI a case of overstretching or a source of destabilization? Xiang notes how, “Chinese are never really interested in other countries’ domestic policies. Not interested in exporting a model. Chinese have no real model. A model has to be mature – with a structure. Unless you’re talking about export of traditional Chinese culture.”

The problem, once again, is that China thought it was possible to “sneak into geographical areas that the US never paid too much attention to, Africa, Central Asia, without necessarily provoking a geopolitical setback. But that is naiveté.”

Xiang is fond of reminding Western analysts that, “the infrastructure investment model was invented by Europeans. Railways. The Trans-Siberian. Canals, like in Panama. Behind these projects there was always a colonial competition. We pursue similar projects – minus colonialism.”

Still, “Chinese planners buried their head in the sand. They never use that word – geopolitics.” Thus his constant jokes with Chinese policy makers: “You may not like geopolitics, but geopolitics likes you.”

Ask Confucius

ORDER IT NOW

The crucial aspect of the “post-pandemic situation”, according to Xiang, is to forget about “that wolf warrior stuff. China may be able to re-start the economy before anyone else. Develop a really working vaccine. China should not politicize it. It should show a universal value about it, pursue multilateralism to help the world, and improve its image.”

On domestic politics, Xiang is adamant that “during the last decade the atmosphere at home, on minority issues, freedom of speech, has been tightening to the extent that it does not help China’s image as a global power.”

Compare it, for instance, with “unfavorable views of China” in a survey of nations in the industrialized West that includes only two Asians: Japan and South Korea.

And that brings us to Xiang’s The Quest for Legitimacy in Chinese Politics – arguably the most important contemporary study by a Chinese scholar capable of explaining and bridging the East-West political divide.

This book is such a major breakthrough that its main conceptual analyses will be the subject of a follow-up column.

Xiang’s main thesis is that “legitimacy in Chinese tradition political philosophy is a dynamic question. To transplant Western political values to the Chinese system does not work.”

Yet even as the Chinese concept of legitimacy is dynamic, Xiang stresses, “the Chinese government is facing a legitimacy crisis.” He refers to the anti-corruption campaign of the past four years: “Widespread official corruption, that is a side-effect of economic development, bringing out the bad side of the system. Credit to Xi Jinping, who understood that if we allow this to continue, the CCP will lose all legitimacy.”

Xiang stresses how, in China, “legitimacy is based on the concept of morality – since Confucius. The communists can’t escape the logic.

Nobody before Xi dared to tackle corruption. He had the guts to root it out, arrested hundreds of corrupt generals. Some even attempted two or three coups d’état.”

At the same time, Xiang is adamantly against the “tightening of the atmosphere” in China in terms of freedom of speech. He mentions the example of Singapore under Lee Kuan Yew, an “enlightened authoritarian system”. The problem is” China has no rule of law. There are a lot of legal aspects though. Singapore is a little city-state. Like Hong Kong. They just took over the British legal system. It’s working very well for that size.”

And that brings Xiang to quote Aristotle: “Democracy can never work in bigger countries. In city-states, it does.” And armed with Aristotle, we step into Hong Kong: “Hong Kong had rule of law – but never a democracy. The government was directly appointed by London. That’s how Hong Kong actually worked – as an economic dynamo. Neoliberal economists consider Hong Kong as a model. It’s a unique political arrangement. Tycoon politics. No democracy – even as the colonial government did not rule like an authoritarian figure. Market economy was unleashed. Hong Kong was ruled by the Jockey Club, HSBC, Jardine Matheson, with the colonial government as coordinator. They never cared about people in the bottom.”

Xiang notes how, “the richest man in Hong Kong only pays 15% of income tax. China wanted to keep that pattern, with a colonial government appointed by Beijing. Still tycoon politics. But now there’s a new generation. People born after the handover – who know nothing about the colonial history. Chinese elite ruling since 1997 did not pay attention to the grassroots and neglected younger generation sentiment. For a whole year the Chinese didn’t do anything. Law and order collapsed. This is the reason why mainland Chinese decided to step in. That’s what the new security law is all about.”

And what about that other favorite “malign” actor across the Beltway – Russia? “Putin would love to have a Trump win. The Chinese as well, up to three months ago. The Cold War was a great strategic triangle. After Nixon went to China, the US sat in the middle manipulating Moscow and Beijing. Now everything has changed.”

(Republished from Asia Times by permission of author or representative)
 
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  1. 76239 says:

    “Everything about US-China hinges on the result of the upcoming US presidential election.”

    As many Unz readers know, US foreign policy is surprisingly very consistent no matter which buffoon occupies the White House. The deep state runs American foreign policy not its politicians.

    • Agree: Alden, Biff, Realist, chris
    • Replies: @animalogic
    , @Miro23
    , @Richard B
  2. tyrone says:

    No mention of the corona virus BIO-WEAPON!,perfectly adapted to infect humans……..anther bullshit artist propagandist.

    • Agree: Alden
    • Replies: @Alden
    , @tyrone
  3. Pepe, I’m not sure you’re right on this take. My own family within the M-I complex over there are quite sure that Biden’s victory is going to result in the same maneuver: a “conscious decoupling” in the Goop sense of the term. The decoupling will just be on China’s terms and at Beijing’s preferred pace as opposed to Washington’s. End result will be the same.

    The main difference is whether or not China will have the belt road finished before the American Boomer Money Spigot is plugged.

    I have a relative who’s been “prepping the bull” so to speak on deregulating Europe into America 2.0. He was on the Piraeus lease team and prior to that in Australia. China’s 5000 year history proves it’s good at finding tributaries while ascendant. There are other economies that they can subsume besides America.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  4. Alden says:
    @tyrone

    Covid is a fraud and a lie. Fewer people have died of covid alone than usually die of flu alone.

    The deaths are vastly over numbered. Average age 78, normal age to die. Most with cancer cardio vascular severe diabetes severe respiratory problems and other deadly diseases.
    Even a baby who died of a severe deformity, within hours of birth was classified as covid death.

    I believe covid hoax is a joint cooperative effort by every government on earth . I’ve no idea what the purpose of the fraud is and what the government’s intentions are.

    • Agree: Richard B
    • Disagree: Von Rho
  5. vot tak says:

    “Xiang has been focusing on the Trump administration’s push to “redefine an external target”: a process he brands, “risky, dangerous, and highly ideological”. Not because of Trump – who is “not interested in ideological issues” – but due to the fact that the “China policy was hijacked by the real Cold Warriors”. The objective: “regime change. But that was not Trump’s original plan.”

    “In a nutshell, that’s the “American way of stumbling into a Cold War.”

    The zpc/nwo is not stumbling into a new cold war, they very deliberately planned and initiated it, and trump is no “sweet innocent babe”, but an enthusiastic member of the team. These kinds of “analysis” only serve to obfuscate the geostrategy of the zpc/nwo oligarchy.

    • Agree: Maowasayali
  6. tyrone says:
    @tyrone

    Purpose of the fraud……to screw Trump …..how else could a senile old criminal like Biden ever have a chance.

    • Replies: @anon
  7. Toxik says:

    It’s really about the whites vs non-whites. The whites are terrified that the chinese will take over the planet. But in the end, after 300 more years, we’ll all be mixed.

    • Replies: @Mefobills
    , @Kali Yuga
  8. anon[454] • Disclaimer says:
    @tyrone

    Times are tough out there when a troll starts answering himself,!!

    • LOL: Biff
  9. @Alden

    I’ve no idea what the purpose of the fraud is and what the government’s intentions are.

    They’re trying to implement, “the Mark of the Beast,” based on a digital, networked system of bio-security and social credit.

  10. Anonymous[528] • Disclaimer says:
    @Alden

    I believe covid hoax is a joint cooperative effort by every government on earth . I’ve no idea what the purpose of the fraud is and what the government’s intentions are.

    One theory is that it’s like a giant fire drill being imposed by governments as a way to practice and prepare for the real thing and serious pandemics that could happen in the future. Except unlike fire drills in school, where all the kids know it’s just a drill and there’s no real fire, you can’t really let people know that it’s just a pandemic drill, because people aren’t going to cooperate and put up with a drill that disrupts their lives for months. The only way to really have a realistic pandemic drill is basically by lying to the public and pretending that there really is a pandemic.

    The military does this with its war games and exercises. The soldiers in them aren’t told if it’s just a drill or a real war scenario, and they can’t tell because it’s realistic and everyone follows along with the drill and pretends it’s real.

    • Replies: @Notsofast
    , @Carlos22
  11. For seven decades, the world has been told that an invasion of Taiwan is imminent. The American military-industrial-congressional complex needs threats to justify wartime budgets, and China provides one excuse. American warships and aircraft routinely operate just off China’s coast. If China complains, the world is warned that China is threatening military action. The good ole “China will soon invade Taiwan” tale is a perpetual favorite. In reality, China lacks the naval power to invade Taiwan and attempting to conquer this large island would prove bloody, devastate the Chinese economy, lead to domestic unrest, and may not succeed.

    • Replies: @Sean
    , @anon
  12. kauchai says:

    I don’t know where this guy (xiang lanxin) is going. Maybe he has forgotten his roots as a chinese after all that western indoctrination and bribes. In china, he will be labeled as a “gong zhi” – a wise ass who espouse neo-liberal bullshit.

    1)
    [[“Several things should have been better controlled. Like abandoning Deng Xiaoping’s original advice that China should bide its time and keep a low profile. Deng, in his last will, had set a timeline for that, at least 50 years.”

    The problem is “the speed of China’s economic development led to hot headed, and premature, calculations. And a not well thought of strategy. ‘Wolf warrior’ diplomacy is an extremely assertive posture – and language. China began to upset the US – and even the Europeans. That was a geostrategic miscalculation.”]]

    He has failed to see that china’s development from a poor and destitute economy to the current level is bound to come to a collision with western hegemonic interests.

    Take for instance, at the beginning of the opening up, china was a net producer of oil. It had no need to import oil and therefore the chances of it coming into contact with western oil interests was zero. Ever since it started to import oil and the imports have since increased substantially, it is brushing against the established western oil oligarchs. Its oil installations in Libya which amounted to USD 30-40 billions were destroyed by the empire’s “no fly zone” lie of a war (which was in actual fact a regime change war to rout out muaamar gaddafi). What was even sadder and comical for china was that its hands were forced at the UNSC to vote for the “no fly zone” resolution – only to see its own investments went up in smoke. Ditto for Iraq when Bush Jr went after Saddam’s ass in 2003.

    And now we turn our attention to the South China Sea (SCS). Prior to 1967 before it was announced to the whole world that the SCS contains billions upon billions of barrels of oil and gas, no littoral states bordering the sea was interested in the spratlys and paracels. Now it has been turned by the empire and the oil oligarchs into a potential powder keg with the usual diatribe that china wanted it all. All this, despite that fact that it was the former republican KMT (Kuomintang) government (who was and still is an empire vassal) who declared the initial 11 dash line and was later modified by the current government to the 9 dash line to placate vietnam. The empire back then even lend its warships to the KMT to ferry troops to re-occupy these islands according to the terms of the Japanese surrender document which incorporated the Potsdam Proclamation and the Cairo Declaration. To top it all, the chinese government had openly declared they are willing to share the riches of the SCS with all littoral states so long as exploration and exploitation of these resources are commonly agreed upon and operated on by all parties concerned.

    Next came the trade war. Again, for unprovoked reasons, that mad dog in the white house started slapping 25% tariffs on chinese manufactures.

    Next the tech war. First it was ZTE for dealing with Iran. Then came Huawei with identical boiler plate cards which culminated in the kidnapping of Meng Wanzhou, the founder’s own daughter.

    So, how do you keep your cool in the face of such wanton provocations? How do you “better control” these? (Xiang would have advocated that china keep burying its head in the sand and pretend nothing had happened). Deng himself was never shy when it came to teaching vietnam a “lesson” in 1979 for its invasion of cambodia. Back then, china had nothing to show or hide even.

    So, when is it a good time to “upset the US and the Europeans”? (Like it or not, this is bound to come to pass one day…)

    2) Yet even as the Chinese concept of legitimacy is dynamic, Xiang stresses, “the Chinese government is facing a legitimacy crisis.”

    Now I am convinced that this guy has been totally brain washed and bribed to the hilt. So, according to western notion of a legitimate government, it has to be universally voted in by the one-man one-vote manner. Never mind the fact that after only a few months, its popularity plummets to the single digit after having been exposed as a puppet for big businesses, special interests and naked corruption. Never mind the fact that half the population subsists on less than USD2/day, the 0.0001% live in big luxurious “palaces” and zoom around town in fancy foreign sports cars and the poor have to hunt for rats in the field to eat. Yet, these “legitimate” governments continue to operate by hiding behind the vote. (Yet, he quoted Aristotle)

    Maybe he has never seen the chinese government’s ratings which had consistently scored above 90% in the last few years. The chinese concept of legitimacy is dynamic because it is telling the whole world that if you cannot deliver the goodies consistently and on time, get the hell out. That’s why they have an official poverty elimination program that works, a public health system that mobilised the entire nation’s resources to combat pandemics like Covid19 (by china’s standards the trump and bojo regimes would have been rendered illegitimate), free education from kindergarten to universities, government subsidies for new business startups (even elon musk’s new Gigafactory in Shanghai received preferential loans and government tax breaks), etc, etc.

    At the end, if things don’t work out in china, the finger only points to one direction – the CCP!

    HOW’S THIS FOR LEGITIMACY?

    3) ” At the same time, Xiang is adamantly against the “tightening of the atmosphere” in China in terms of freedom of speech.”

    Some time ago there was a professor in a Shanghai university who wrote an article that denied the japanese unit 731 bio warfare experiments in north east china between 1931 – 1945.

    There were other academics and “gong zhi” who also denied the nanjing massacre.

    In the west, if one dare deny the jewish holocaust, he or she will be facing a jail sentence. But in “authoritarian” china, one can still go on merrily espousing these bullshit with no fear of prosecution whatsoever. How’s that for freedom of speech in china huh?

    Perhaps Xiang is their appointed spokesman ?

  13. @76239

    “US foreign policy is surprisingly very consistent no matter which buffoon occupies the White House.”
    Yes indeed. In many ways Dem’s are worse — always trying to prove they are “tough”. This, I tend to largely discount this comment from the article:
    “For Xiang, “if Biden wins, the danger of a Cold War turning Hot War will be reduced dramatically.”
    If Biden wins the dynamics may change, but not the general US aggressive posture to China/Russia.

  14. I don’t know Mr.Xiang, but usually academics don’t have a useful view or analysis of the China-US situation.

    For myself, I have been an occasional investor in China since the early 2000s, when I bought into Chinese bank shares after they collapsed and needed recapitalisation, which was supplied by many eager western banks and funds. I exited during their crazy bullmarket just before the US subprime crisis.

    As we all know, China has done a fantastic job of raising 800 million plus people out of poverty with an intense, sustained and disciplined effort that is mentally beyond anything the corrupt, warmongering, degenerate and virus-ridden USA can even imagine.

    China’s present leader Xi, also had the guts to tackle the massive corruption in Chinese government and society that sprung up during these efforts and he has largely been successful. If only the USA had leaders of the quality of Xi and his team, for sure the USA would not be in the Shithole it now is in.

    Xiang is wrong abt China making a mistake with its “Wolf Warrior” attitude. First of all, this is an invention of the western media, controlled by western intelligence services, who need to dominate world opinion and cannot tolerate any other power rising that does not kowtow to the western establishment.

    Problem is, China now doesn’t give a fuck what the West thinks of it. Its response has always been measured and thoughtful, it doesn’t respond in 5 secs with some crazed nonsense like the pussygrabbing, degenerate, virus-ridden leader of the USA.

    The Chinese public may have admired the west’s soft power and false talk about human rights and democracy, but the Chinese establishment has never been under such illusions. They know the west wants to be no.1 and will destroy anyone they feel is a threat to that position, whether that threat is genuine or not.

    So eventually at some point when the west demands that China must continue to kowtow to it, China has to politely tell them to fuck off, even if this results in much screaming and crying from the west.

    The crazy attacks and false accusations by the corrupt, degenerate and virus-ridden Trump regime in the last few years has only hardened the Chinese attitude and reinforced their decision to resolutely but firmly tell the USA to go and fuck its own degenerate ass.

    • Agree: Mary Marianne
    • Thanks: FB
    • Replies: @kauchai
    , @Ron Unz
    , @FB
  15. Abt the HK situation, it really exposes the hypocrisy and salivating desire of asslicking Trump supporters to destroy China by whatever means possible.

    When crazed HK rioters destroyed and burned down trains, shopping centers, blocked roads and beat up civilians who would not kowtow to them, reptilian lizardmen like Ted Cruz and Man-pig hybrids like Pompeo were literally cumming in their trousers with glee, calling the protestors heroes and calling the very restrained HK police response barbaric and deadly.

    I watched teenage rioters beat up old men and women who refused to kowtow to them, teenage fuckboy protestors smashing every little bit of glass in shopping centers and trains, putting thousands of bricks all over road to stop traffic, all directed, equipped and paid for by western intelligence linked groups who were openly boasting about their success in creating HK unrest and riots in the media.

    Thankfully their efforts resulted in complete failure and massively hardened the attitudes of Asians and Chinese worldwide against the corrupt Trump regime.

    Hilariously, when heroic BLM and Antifa supporters later peacefully protested against decades of systematic racist police killing, these same hypocritical lizardmen and manpig hybrids called for the US military to crush the peaceful BLM and Antifa protestors with tanks and heavy weapons.

    We should call upon China, Russia, Venezuela and Iran to aid these heroic BLM and Antifa protestors, supply them with thousands of assault rifles to protect themselves, and pay them salaries so they can continue with their peaceful protesting against the barbaric and corrupt Trump regime.

    After all, that’s what the USA did in Syria, Ukraine, Libya, Chechnya and so on. And the US was trying to do it in Xinjiang, but couldn’t get it going due to incompetence.

    America needs to stop fucking up other people’s countries and work on improving their own country, which has rapidly devolved into a shithole of corruption and disease.

    • Agree: Tor597, Ram, Chinaman
  16. Miro23 says:
    @76239

    As many Unz readers know, US foreign policy is surprisingly very consistent no matter which buffoon occupies the White House. The deep state runs American foreign policy not its politicians.

    Agree, and right now the MSM is running a whole raft of anti-China propaganda – Huawei, Embassy spying, Hong Kong, S. China Sea, Uyghur’s etc. so the Chinese are right to be worried.

    All of the above directly connects with Xiang’s great concern about a possible October Surprise: “It could probably be over Taiwan. Or a limited engagement in the South China Sea.” He stresses, “Chinese military people are terribly worried. October Surprise as a military engagement is not unthinkable, because Trump may want to re-establish a war presidency.”

    Not coincidentally, China is Iran’s principal trade partner and ignores US sanctions on the country:

    As a part of the deal, both the countries will invest the money to build infrastructure projects and spend on defense alongside to maintain closer ties with each other. China will inject $280 billion in Iran’s oil, gas and petrochemical sectors over the next five years. It is reported that further capital will be available in each subsequent five-year period.
    Furthermore, the capital infusion will see China investing another $120 billion to overhaul Iran’s transport and manufacturing infrastructure. Chinese companies will be granted to take part in any of the bidding processes for future new, postponed and uncompleted projects related to oil, gas and petrochemical inside Iran.

    https://www.globalbusinessoutlook.com/china-to-sign-400-billion-deal-with-iran-25-year-period/

  17. anonymous[331] • Disclaimer says:

    Listen hard to kauchai. Western indoctrination is right. xiang lanxin is a product of the Johns Hopkins spy factory. Of all US academic institutions, SAIS may be most hostile to rule of law. He keeps haranguing Chinese about “geopolitics,” the discredited realist doctrine in US foreign relations. He never would have got a Phd if he didn’t swallow it hook, line & sinker. Chinese in the SCO do not have to accept the US shitting on rule of law to create their anarchic dream world. The PRC wants the UN Charter, equality and mutual benefit. The US is going to learn that, probably the hard way.

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  19. Rahan says:
    @Alden

    I believe covid hoax is a joint cooperative effort by every government on earth .

    One refused to cooperate.

    MINSK – Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko has called the Covid-19 coronavirus pandemic declared by the World Health Organization (WHO) a psychosis, saying that panic will hurt people more than the virus.

    “Despite some criticism on my part, I call this coronavirus nothing other than a psychosis, and I will never deny that, because I’ve gone through many situations of psychosis together with you, and we know what the results were,” the Belarusian state news agency BelTA quoted Lukashenko as saying after receiving a report on the epidemiological situation in the country on Thursday.

    “Coronavirus is yet another psychosis, which will benefit some people and will harm others,” Lukashenko said.

    https://www.baltictimes.com/lukashenko__coronavirus_is_psychosis/

    **

    As most of the world turns to social distancing, face masks and hand sanitiser to slow the spread of coronavirus, Belarusians are being told that farming, sport, the sauna and a few shots of vodka are better ways to ward off the disease.

    Alexander Lukashenko, the authoritarian leader of Belarus, has decreed that the pandemic will not disfigure life in the country he has run since 1994, and so everything from borders to kindergartens will stay open and his 9.5 million people will not be deprived of their cinemas, theatres or football season.

    “It’s better to die standing than live on your knees,” Mr Lukashenko (65) declared after playing ice hockey last weekend.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/belarusian-leader-prescribes-sport-sauna-and-vodka-to-beat-covid-19-1.4217093

    Lukashenko for weeks now has downplayed the threat of COVID-19. Instead of preparing his nation for the worst, he has routinely and openly questioned the world’s response to the virus, using the word “psychosis” to describe the global response several times since early March.
    Meanwhile, he has made a point of keeping factories, stores, cultural and sporting events open. The Belarusian Health Ministry has reported just 152 cases of the coronavirus. Neighboring Russia reported 1,836 as of Monday.

    Two weeks ago, he insisted that Belarus has survived worse than the novel pandemic hitting the world. Saunas, vodka and tending to the fields were the best remedy for those who fear the spread of the virus, he said.

    “The tractor will heal everyone,” he said, “the fields heal everyone.”

    https://news.yahoo.com/belarusian-leader-bucks-coronavirus-psychosis-083605138.html

    Now, is it a coincidence that they’re trying to take him out right now? You tell me…

    • Agree: Notsofast, JasonT, Rdm
    • Replies: @Ann Nonny Mouse
  20. @nsa

    Hard to read, yet the point is 100 percent right!!! The U.S. has become a parody a joke.

    • Replies: @Miro23
  21. TG says:

    I’m sorry, but everything the neoliberals have told you about Hong Kong is worng. (“Worng” is not a typo, it’s a word inspired by Einstein, who once attacked someone by saying that their theory was so bad it was “not even wrong.”).

    Hong Kong was not an economic dynamo. Hong Kong did not create wealth. For a long time, essentially everything labelled as “Made in Hong Kong” was actually made in slave labor factories in mainland China, and Hong Kong had the unique privilege of being the tollbooth for slave-produced goods in China being shipped to the West.

    How typical of the neoliberals, to crow about how profiting from slavery is the epitome of economic development. What was it Milton Friedman used to say, ‘Free to Choose to Own Slaves?’ It’s all about freedom!

    Of course, now Hong Kong is no longer essential for China’s exports, and with no native industries, basically no natural resources, the elites continuing to import more people, and the advantages of its financial institutions being whittled away by competitors, the average Hong Kongese is looking at a dismal future of living in apartments not much different from cages…

  22. Ponder says:
    @kauchai

    Very well reasoned and nicely written rebuttal with logical facts and well placed historical events to back up the counter-argument. Keep your responses at such a level of response and you will in no time debunk the misconceptions and/or deliberate misinformation.

  23. Notsofast says:
    @Anonymous

    fire drills don’t usually wipe out half of small and independent businesses. i think there is a more sinister explanation that involves our billionaire overlords consolidating power and siphoning capitol upwards. this is class warfare which is why they want to portray it as racial struggle and hide behind blm.

    • Thanks: true.enough
  24. Sean says:
    @Carlton Meyer

    The effectiveness of US efforts in Korea and Vietnam must make Taiwanese leaders feel very confident. A decade ago the US threatened to nuke any Chinese invasion of Taiwan to forstall UDI (to which China insolently made veiled threats to turn LA into a glass parking lot) so US diplomacy does not act like it really thinks there could be a successful conventional defense of Taiwan.

  25. Navegante says:

    How old is Mr Xiang? I have noted that old Chinese have the tendency to believe that the White people are always right and little Chinese should not disturbe them.
    All this article to show the ideas of a brain washed Chinese living in Europe used to kowtow to the West?

    This Mr Xiang should at least read Kissinger Book “On China” where Kissinger explains very clearly, taking the case of Germany in the First WW, that no matter what the emerging country says or do, the only thing that count it’s his “capability”. And this capability cannot be hidden, even less in the case of China. So the attack from the incumbents will come no matter what. It will be an attack in the form of decoupling plus hot war like Pompeo wants or in the form of color Revolution as the Democrats want.

    • Replies: @Sean
  26. Worrying about the LIMIT’S of Chinese power, is not the issue. The issue is the present “influence” of Chinese power in the U.S., to wit, Control of U.S. sports and sport figures(Le Bron,etc.) Control of our movies, almost complete control of our medicines and pharmaceuticals, even control of the parts availability of our weapons, also manufactured in China. Americans have clearly been betrayed by the U.S. elite.. How can anyone doubt this at this late a date???

    • Agree: Redneck farmer
  27. anon[544] • Disclaimer says:
    @Carlton Meyer

    In reality, China lacks the naval power to invade Taiwan, and attempting to conquer this large island would prove bloody, devastate the Chinese economy, lead to domestic unrest, and may not succeed.

    I disagree. China has the military might to take over Taiwan. The reason China doesn’t want to do it is that the time is on China’s side, and peaceful unification is much more beneficial to China.

    The U.S has been playing the Taiwan card heavily last few years. Just look at the China/Taiwan resolutions and laws that passed in Congress. The relationship between China and Taiwan was warm and friendly when the last president was The KMT Ma Ying Jeou.

    China would be forced to react if Taiwan declares independence. China can invade and conquer Taiwan in less than 2 weeks. I doubt the US has the will to go to war with China over Taiwan. How many Americans are willing to die for Taiwan before American people rise up and revolt for getting into another war that is detrimental to the US?

    China, on the other hand, has to act. It doesn’t matter who is running China; it doesn’t matter which party rules China; it doesn’t matter China is democratic or authoritarian; it doesn’t matter how big the price China has to pay. No Chinese government can survive if China loses Taiwan. It would lose legitimacy to rule if it did.

    • Replies: @kauchai
    , @Malla
  28. Miro23 says:
    @Dr. Charles. Fhandrich.

    Hard to read, yet the point is 100 percent right!!! The U.S. has become a parody a joke.

    It’s difficult to say what the USA has become. It’s certainly not a joke – Americans aren’t laughing. Simon Dentith, defines parody as “any cultural practice which provides a relatively polemical allusive imitation of another cultural production or practice” (Wikipedia).

    The cultural production being parodied looks like 1950’s America. The Ivy League is still there, the Democrats and Republicans, Congress, the Supreme Court, the White House, the Presidency, the Washington Post, the New York Times the aircraft carrier battle groups, and the US Dollar – but there’s an unmistakable parody aspect to the whole thing.

    The Ivy League caters to preppy non-Anglos, the Democratic and Republican congressmen are special interest paid whores, Congress can only unite to give standing ovations to the leader of a foreign country, The Supreme Court is a disunited racial battleground, the White House is overshadowed physically and figuratively by a giant Menorah, and the Washington Post and New York Times are Jewish propaganda organs. And the carrier battle groups are simply maladaptive relics from WW2 with the US dollar a zombie currency floating on a sea of debt.

    Problem that the rest of the world (at least the non-Western part) isn’t part of the parody, and is getting really tired of compulsory attendance at this show.

  29. @GreatSocialist

    Blm and antifa are about beating down white america so jews can remain secure as the ruling elite. If you want to attack the US elite yoi have to attack the Jewish power structure. That means money should go toward Kevin Macdonald or david duke rather than organizations like antifa that are backed by jewish billionaires like soros.

    I know you socialist types dont have money for an education but try to use your head for once.

    • Agree: Malla
  30. Hank Kissinger knows what is best for us all.

    I was speaking with him this morning and he said to me, “You liddle schpritz can get out your fundelbaums, because the schtinkfelds and the geldbergs have found the key to good coffee down on Fairfax. Next to Cantor’s. You know the place!”

    Not really understanding what the sage old chew was suggesting, I simply nodded and thanked him for being better than anyone else and for being a member of the chosen people. I ordered a Reuben sandwich with a dill pickle on the side, and decided to try the cup of coffee that Hank had just spoken about.

    It was true! The chewish coffee was delish!

    Swing a chicken and throw your fedora, because the talmud clearly states that China and the izzies have the new security agreement in place.

  31. kauchai says:
    @GreatSocialist

    1) We should call upon China, Russia, Venezuela and Iran to aid these heroic BLM and Antifa protestors, supply them with thousands of assault rifles to protect themselves, and pay them salaries so they can continue with their peaceful protesting against the barbaric and corrupt Trump regime.

    And bring these “beautiful sights” into the backyards of every corner of the empire.

    I am all for it!

  32. Malla says:

    Compounding the problem, “China is not really sure what the US wants to do.”

    The problem is that the USA does not behave as a normal nation because its elites are globalists and they are only using the USA to achieve its ends. If USA would be nation ruled by nationalists, it would have the interest of the USA at heart and thus it would be possible to understand what the US nation wants and its national interests and thus make some sort of deal. But it is, not what the US nation wants but what the globalist elites want. That makes the USA unpredictable at times supporting contradictory movements. It has supported and opposed both Communists and Islamists.

    China should slowly build up a blue water navy equivalent to the USA concentrating on submarines. Only when China has a blue water navy equivalent or close to the USA will it feel secure in ensuring no blockages to its source of raw material or markets. Interestingly after the rapid growth industrialization of China, China is in the same situation as many European powers countries and Japan were a century back, fear that some other power could block their access to raw materials and markets. But China’s attempt to increase its naval power may raise alarm bells in Washington just like Kaiser Germany’s similar attempt, a century back, raised alarm bells in London.

    Also China should be very careful about any provocations or false flags. The US elites have a history of false flags. But most importantly China needs to build media power equivalent to the USA so that its narrative can be heard in the world, perception is key. CGTN and Global Times are good but more needs to be done. Unfortunately due to the Corona Virus, whoever may be responsible for it, China’s image has taken a beating. Now is not the time to take any bold actions but at the same time China needs to protect its interests. Walking a thin line.

    Also China should make some deals with South East Asian countries, give them fishing access to the South China sea and win them over to their side. Especially Malaysia, Singapore and Indonesia keeping the Malacca Straights in view. China is surrounded by rivals who are U.S. allies or potential U.S. allies like India on the West and Vietnam down South, while none of China’s allies are on the borders of the USA. China is thus in a weaker situation, just like Russia today or the Axis powers were in WW2 w.r.t USA. The USA is the ruler of a North America World Island, safe from attack from Eurasia, but thanks to its industrial power, navy etc… can interfere in Eurasian affairs keeping itself safe from afar. The USA has military bases in Eurasia but no Eurasian power has significant military bases in the Americas.

  33. Sean says:
    @Navegante

    So the attack from the incumbents will come no matter what. It will be an attack in the form of decoupling plus hot war like Pompeo wants or in the form of color Revolution as the Democrats want.

    MacArthur privately cautioned against Vietnam because after Korea he knew what a land war in Asia meant. He was ignored and America was thrashed. No American in a position of power is going to fight China in its backyard because they know America would lose. And the elites on both sides would be the first to get killed in the escalation that would follow the first use of thermonuclear weapons. Of course they bluster and issue veiled threats, but China, already too strong to fear the US, need not do anything non-economic to rise to an unchallengeable position in the world, and America can’t do anything to more effective than squawking.

    This Mr Xiang should at least read Kissinger Book “On China” where Kissinger explains very clearly, taking the case of Germany in the First WW, that no matter what the emerging country says or do, the only thing that count it’s his “capability”. And this capability cannot be hidden, even less in the case of China.

    True, and the power of China stems from its burgeoning economic growth, which is irrepressible, especially as America’s elites are hypercapitalisticly colluding with Chinese elitess for their mutual enrichment. Decoupling will not halt the relative gains in power that China is making, so China will be the most powerful country in Asia and behave there in a fashion concomitant with that status in the same way that America behaves in the continent it dominates.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Anonymous
    , @Anonymous
  34. Malla says:
    @anon

    Can’t P.R. China influence local politicians within Taiwan to maintain the status quo? Resolve the issue without anything military as Taiwan could be used by the USA to rope China into a major global war. The Propaganda machines could go full force in inciting the American people and the World.

    How many Americans are willing to die for Taiwan before American people rise up and revolt for getting into another war that is detrimental to the US?

    This shit has been going on for a full century now (since the American-Spanish Empire Wars) and the American people never rose up but allowed themselves to be led by their noses reading propaganda newspapers. Those who spoke out against war in the past have not been that effective in stopping the war machine.

    • Agree: Joe Levantine
    • Replies: @Anon
  35. Some of the suggestions as above sound abt right.

    I am sure china will have a thoughtful response to virus-ridden fuckboy Trump and his asslicking sycophants.

    Like right now, “Pussolini” Trump is blaming China for his own virus infection, knowing full well that Covid-19 originated in US laboratories, and it was his own pet man-pig hybrid Pompeo who signed authorization to start weaponization research on coronaviruses in 2017.

    Yet this fuckboy Pussolini el Donato Trumpanzo still dares to blame China for his own stupidity in unleashing Covid-19 onto the USA and the world.

    And China’s response? It’s “Fuck off, PUSSOLINI, we aren’t gonna waste time responding to you.”

    • LOL: Joe Levantine
  36. Anon[194] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean

    Wishful thinking, your Communist slip is showing, Sean. The USA wasn’t “thrashed” in Vietnam and suffered a comparable amount of casualties (40,000 vs 30,000) in the 3 year Korean war despite the Vietnam war being a decade long. Contrasted against the 1.1 million North Vietbamese killed, it’s pretty obvious who got thrashed, and the USA only pulled out due to the social revolution occurring back home. The USA could easily invade and occupy China today with a Southeast Asian, Indian and potentially Mongolian, Tajik and Kyrgyz alliance.

    • Troll: showmethereal
    • Replies: @Biff
    , @Anonymous
  37. “Any great superpower, if overstretched, becomes vulnerable.”
    The pattern of history shows every superpower does: a cautious reminder to all powers – incumbent hegemon or pretender.
    https://www.ghostsofhistory.wordpress.com/

  38. @Rahan

    Does this mean that the “authoritarian” president of Byelarus is in reality the least authoritarian national president in the world?

    • Replies: @Rahan
  39. @Sean

    And thank you Sean for that interesting and informative video.

  40. Anon[132] • Disclaimer says:
    @Malla

    Can’t P.R. China influence local politicians within Taiwan to maintain the status quo?

    One of the outcomes of WWII, the Korean War, and the Cold War is that Taiwan became a vassal of the the US, and still is. The US has a huge influence over Taiwan. Every serious presidential candidates has to go to Washington DC to be vetted, and every military movement be report to the US. Taiwan accepts it because its security relies on the US.

    Most Taiwanese want to maintain the status quo. Millions of Taiwanese work and live in China, and Taiwan has a huge trade plus with China. And the status quo best serves China’s interest, too. It has all sort of policies that favor the Taiwanese like college admission, startup, etc. But what most Taiwanese want is not always up to them. E.g, A referendum on gay marriage clearly showed most Taiwanese didn’t support it. Gay marriage was legalized anyway. When it comes to China-Taiwan relationship, Taiwan can only follow the direction from the US.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  41. Anonymous[360] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean

    America behaves in the continent it dominates.

    Not just in its own continent:

  42. Anonymous[312] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean

    Mearsheimer in a recent interview says the conflict between the US and China is likely to escalate, possibly up to nuclear war. He notes that people were also saying right before WWI that the European powers were too economically interdependent and engaged in mutual enrichment to go to war, just like people say today about the US and China.

    ” INTERVIEW/ John Mearsheimer: U.S.-China rift runs real risk of escalating into a nuclear war ”

    http://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/13629071

    [MORE]

    The real Cold War started before the coronavirus, and the coronavirus doesn’t matter much. And ideology doesn’t matter much. What matters is the balance of power. And the fact is, China has become so powerful over the past 20 years.

    There is a serious chance that (China) could become a regional hegemon in Asia. And the United States does not tolerate peer competitors. The idea that China is going to become a regional hegemon is unacceptable to the United States.

    So, it’s this clash of interests that are generated by this fundamental change that’s taking place in the balance of power. It is driving the competition…

    Well, there were many experts who said the same thing before World War I. They said there was a tremendous amount of economic interdependence in Europe. And nobody would dare start a war because you would end up killing the goose that lays the golden egg. But nevertheless, we had World War I. And what this tells you is that you can have economic cooperation, and at the same time, you have security competition.

    And what sometimes happens is that the security competition becomes so intense that it overwhelms the economic cooperation and you have a conflict. But I would take this a step further and say that if you look at what’s happening in the world today, that economic cooperation between the United States and China is slowly beginning to disappear, and you’re getting an economic competition as well as security competition.

    As you well know, the United States has its gun sights on Huawei. The United States would like to destroy Huawei.

    The United States would like to control 5G. The United States would like to remain on the cutting edge of all the modern sophisticated technologies of the day and they view the Chinese as a threat in that regard. And that tells you that not only are you getting military competition, but you are also getting economic competition…

    Now, contrast that with the situation in East Asia, which is the central flash point between United States and China, the three places where you could possibly have a war involve the South China Sea, Taiwan and the East China Sea.

    Those areas are not the equivalent of the central front. And it’s possible to imagine a limited conventional war breaking out in one of those three areas. It’s much easier to imagine that happening, than a war on the central front during the Cold War.

    This is not to say that a war in East Asia is axiomatically going to happen. I’m not arguing that, but it is plausible that the United States and the Chinese and some allies of the United States like Japan may end up in a shooting match with the Chinese in say, the East China Sea.

    Now, if China is losing, or if the United States is losing that military engagement, there will be a serious temptation to use nuclear weapons as the United States is committed to use nuclear weapons to defend Japan if Japan is losing a conventional war. And one might say, it’s unimaginable that the United States or China would use nuclear weapons.

    But I don’t think that’s true, because you would be using those nuclear weapons at sea. You would not be hitting the Chinese mainland in all likelihood. And, therefore, it’s possible to think in terms of a “limited nuclear war,” with limited nuclear use.

    So, I worry greatly that not only will we have a war between the United States and China, but also that there’s a serious possibility nuclear weapons would be used. And I think in a very important way, it was much less likely that would happen during the Cold War…

    No, the United States will not accept sharing power. Sharing power as you described it, means allowing China to become a regional hegemon in Asia, and the United States will not tolerate that. The United States will go to enormous lengths to prevent China from becoming a peer competitor.

    You want to remember the United States in the 20th century put four potential peer competitors on the scrap heap of history: Imperial Germany, Imperial Japan, Nazi Germany, and the Soviet Union.

    If China becomes a regional hegemon in Asia, it will have no threats in Asia to worry about, and it will be free to roll into the Western Hemisphere and form military alliances with countries like Cuba and Venezuela. This is why the United States goes to great lengths to prevent China from dominating Asia.

  43. Rahan says:
    @Ann Nonny Mouse

    Does this mean that the “authoritarian” president of Byelarus is in reality the least authoritarian national president in the world?

    Haha, nah, his regime really is authoritarian, albeit much much laxer than the USSR was, or than China or Vietnam are today, and also laxer than the various contemporary exotic satrapies like Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Kazakhstan, and America’s Arab allies. The most “liberal” authoritarian regime in the world, except maybe Turkey.

    A sort of “North Slav” Turkey, but with zero imperial ambitions. This makes Belorussians different from almost everyone else–zero imperial ambitions. Instead a very “just live us alone and don’t rock the boat” attitude.

    Lukashenko provided this “don’t rock the boat” for them, plus a quality of life somewhere in the middle between Russia and Poland, so it was good enough for a quarter of a century. Now that a new urban generation has grown up in this bubble, they feel they deserve more.

    So yeah, in his case his handling of the Corona was more like a broken clock being right twice a day, but when he’s right, he’s right. At least if one supports the ‘Swedish COVID model” taken to its extreme.

  44. Smith says:

    Pretty hard to NOT support Trump in this case.

    A Cold War will effectively bolster nationalism all over the globe, as a vietnamese, even we are getting a bit too gay compared to the older folks.

    The US needs to step back, China needs to erect its walls, we all need to erect our walls, really.

    A multipolar world with different visions for the world would be much better than globohomo model that humanity is deemed to head to by the democrats/US’s deep state.

  45. Ron Unz says:
    @GreatSocialist

    Problem is, China now doesn’t give a fuck what the West thinks of it. Its response has always been measured and thoughtful, it doesn’t respond in 5 secs with some crazed nonsense like the pussygrabbing, degenerate, virus-ridden leader of the USA…

    So eventually at some point when the west demands that China must continue to kowtow to it, China has to politely tell them to fuck off, even if this results in much screaming and crying from the west.

    The crazy attacks and false accusations by the corrupt, degenerate and virus-ridden Trump regime in the last few years has only hardened the Chinese attitude and reinforced their decision to resolutely but firmly tell the USA to go and fuck its own degenerate ass.

    Well, I don’t indulge in that sort of crude language myself, but your sentiments are certainly correct.

    I think both Escobar and that Xiang fellow are being more than a little unfair to the Chinese leaders. After all, how were they to expect that America’s government would suddenly go insane and start behaving in an extremely dangerous and irrational manner? Given that we first spent several years doing our best to provoke Russia and possibly starting a war in Syria under a Hillary Clinton presidency, does that mean that Putin also made some sort of major strategic mistake? Like moving his own country too close to Ukraine or something?

    And what about our insane sudden assassination of Iran’s top military leader in January? So Iran *also* did something very wrong?

    Basically for some years now, America has been acting like a totally crazy country, “not agreement-capable” in the Russian phrase, and that obviously makes the world a much more dangerous place for everyone, regardless of what the Chinese or Russian or Iranian leaders do.

    Furthermore, I’ve repeatedly emphasized that there’s pretty strong evidence that the Covid-19 outbreak was an American biowarfare attack against China (and Iran). Is that something any half-rational government would do?

    https://www.unz.com/announcement/31000-words-missing-from-the-atlantic-and-the-new-york-times-sunday-magazine/

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-our-coronavirus-catastrophe-as-biowarfare-blowback/

    However, I do get the impression that you’re a foreigner, and therefore probably not very well versed in the dynamics of domestic American politics, which you absorb through a distorting MSM filter. For example, you also said:

    Hilariously, when heroic BLM and Antifa supporters later peacefully protested against decades of systematic racist police killing, these same hypocritical lizardmen and manpig hybrids called for the US military to crush the peaceful BLM and Antifa protestors with tanks and heavy weapons.

    Frankly, this sort of statement is just as ridiculous as what the Trumpist idiots say about China and domestic Chinese politics. The BLM/Antifa groups are closely aligned with the American “Deep State” of financial and political power, who strongly dislike Trump but are just as bad in their own way, and much worse in domestic American politics. They’re prefer to start a war with Russia rather than against China, but that’s not a good thing either.

    The problem with saying totally ridiculous things about domestic American politics is that it severely weakens the credibility on your much more sensible statements regarding China and American foreign policy.

    • Agree: TKK, Joe Levantine
    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    , @TKK
    , @anon
    , @Tim too
  46. Anon[262] • Disclaimer says:
    @GreatSocialist

    Excellent! Could not agree more.

  47. Which is easier to swallow?

    A. Coronavirus is a total hoax perpetrated, fostered, and supported by the united leaders of every single country on earth. (Except of course Lukashenko the genius.)

    B. Coronavirus is a badly-concocted biological warfare agent released against China and Iran (where it first appeared), and then, because the US is a bunch of fuck-ups, blew back on them.

    Somehow, I personally find it a tad hard to swallow that the Xi Xinping, the US government, the North Korean elite, et al, etc., and so on, are all co-operating in perfect synchronicity to pull the wool over the eyes of 7 or 8 billion people or so.

    On the other hand, leaders terrified of some rogue manufactured biological weapon that they know nothing about, because the Americans who invented it are idiots, and anyhow, they never beta-test anything. That makes actual common sense to me.

    Saying it’s all a hoax is easier though. One two three. Zippety-do-dah. “It’s all a hoax.” Perfect for dumb people to say. All one-syllable words (making it ideal for the rocket scientists on here to type with one finger.)

    • Agree: Von Rho
    • Replies: @anon
  48. @Ron Unz

    1)My comments about the totally peaceful BLM protestors were tongue-in-cheek. Of course, like any rioting mob, they are dangerous and violent, and as u say, they r probably funded to a certain extent by such entities as Soros, etc.

    Similar to the mobs in HK that were hard at work destroying trains, shopping centers, occupying universities, intimidating senior citizens and blocking roads.

    2)I am writing from outside the US at this time(as you well know) and have lived for some decades outside the US.

    3)I invested in Chinese banks previously(early 2000s) but presently own no assets in China or HK. I go to China once in a while and the changes there since the 80s have been mind-boggling to me.

    4)I was critical of China in the 80s and 90s, but they have improved tremendously while I see the USA behaving more and more in an irrational and dangerous manner. In my eyes, China is a now a force for stability and predictability in the markets while the USA, under Trump especially, has been a destabilizing force.

    5)I help run my small family fund of abt $100M+, which is peanuts over here, but what Trump does, like his trade war from 2018, affected me personally. I underestimated his craziness that time n paid accordingly. However, recently accepting that he was crazy but also a coward, I got it right over the Iran and Covid-19 crises and did ok there.

    6)I appreciate the articles in your site, and even though I do not agree with many of them, I believe it’s good to be able to access a diversity of opinion.

    7)I detect some distaste for the strong language I have recently used so I will tone it down a bit in appreciation of the effort you have put into running a site like this.

    8)Please keep up the good work in running yr site and my best wishes to u and yr family.

  49. @Ron Unz

    Like moving his own country too close to Ukraine or something?

    Isn’t that what happened in Crimea?

  50. Mefobills says:
    @Toxik

    But in the end, after 300 more years, we’ll all be mixed.

    The nation state is the container for various tribes. The nation state is ascendant as it is part of the natural order.

    The mixing we’ve seen in the past is a function of finance capitalism seeking sordid gain. This sordid gain is to import third world people to lower labor costs, or to export jobs to a cheap labor country. The colonial system was to grab minerals and resources to then convert them into goods at a price, which then pays off bond holders.

    So, the forces for “mixing” are on the wane. What we are seeing now is the last gasps of liberalism, and its finance capital economy type.

    The unnatural order of liberalism is jewish at root, and since Jews are anti-logos, everything they touch turns to shit. Liberalism was funded into being by usury flows out of the finance sector. An example is the wall street and London financing of Atlantic slave trade.

    Clown world cannot be sustained without continued thievery and hoaxing by finance oligarchy. Your prognosis is that the future is a linear extrapolation from today. History is not linear, it is cyclical.

    There will be pockets of people groups using nation state containers to protect themselves, and that means severe restrictions on immigration of unlike peoples.

    • Agree: FoSquare
  51. MLK says:

    What with all the incoherent swipes at Trump, the timing of this jibber jabber from this Xi mouthpiece compounds the insult to our intelligence.

    I won’t recapitulate them. If doubt what I’m saying just focus on them in this article. I wouldn’t be surprised if Biden’s foreign policy handlers coordinated this messaging.

    Look, as a general proposition this isn’t so complicated. China won the post-Cold War quarter century, hands down. The American business, governing and political classes, found CCP China’s model unsurprisingly appealing.

    Just as no self-respecting successful capitalist (individual and corporations alike) wants to continue to have to compete every day, permanent one-party rule makes a lot of sense to our actual and would be overlords.

    Watch the debates between Obama and Romney in 2012. You’d be forgiven for wondering whether either knew that China existed. That was a mere eight years ago, when elite consensus was to stealth fully lock in CCP China’s comprehensive displacement of the US as the dominant world power, with the American people fed propaganda like this with one hand, and a coercive surveillance-state with the other to maintain control.

    A final word to the wise, anyone propounding a “Cold War 2.0” with China (much less Russia) is trying to snooker you. Whatever is to come, it ain’t going to be a replay of The Cold War. More ominously, China’s rise is much more akin to Germany’s in the late 19th C. Though the Han have a much more difficult row to hoe trying to dominate their neighbors.

    After all, what looks like smiles und sunshine to Escobar and Godfree ‘Gossamer’ Roberts is the Borg to everyone with their feet on the ground.

    • Replies: @anon
  52. Carlos22 says:
    @Anonymous

    That idea is based on the assumption that they give a flying fuck about ordinary people living in far away lands.

    We know they don’t. So why bother crashing the economy for it.

    I believe there’s more sinister reasons involving control, Corp money grab & population reduction through a dangerous vaccine that they will not take responsibility for.

  53. Anonymous[629] • Disclaimer says:

    Let me guess: another article from Pepe about how the BRI is a “game-changer”? Does he have any other material?

  54. anon[310] • Disclaimer says:
    @kauchai

    So, how do you keep your cool in the face of such wanton provocations?

    This is a disingenuous line of reasoning.

    CCP owes its ability to be a contender in the international arena to the Western Oligarchs that catapulted PRC to its current geopolitical perch. On its own, PRC would forever trail behind a technology curve that was getting even more steep and China would remain hopelessly backwards. Short of adopting a nuclear blackmail diplomatic model, or in general causing mayham, PRC had little to no strategic tools or capabilities, prior to getting into bed with ‘Westerners with supramacist characteristics’.

    What you call “provocations” were a series of incremental reminders to the CCP regarding “who is your Daddy?” The idea was always for China to assume a position like Japan, equal but not exactly equal, and not embarassingly unequal. Look what they did to Japan in the 80s & 90s. This same Trump was going around bashing Japan and using the same precise terms.

    To sum:

    what you call “provocation” are reminders by CCP’s partners that “the deal” required quietism on part of PRC. This was well understood by all parties.

    But there was one thing no one anticipated. Something happened earlier than anticipated.

    It is this early arrival that undermined the calculus of power that informed the West’s (possibly stupid) strategic decision to help CCP modernize and catapult China to its current world standing.

    Do you know what that early arrival was?

    • Replies: @kauchai
  55. TKK says:
    @Ron Unz

    The BLM/Antifa groups are closely aligned with the American “Deep State” of financial and political power, who strongly dislike Trump but are just as bad in their own way, and much worse in domestic American politics.

    Watching as a criminal defense lawyer, the protection given and the refusal to prosecute the BLM/Antifa domestic terrorists is unprecedented.

    And it’s a terrifying precedent.

    Even two (2) years ago, the idea that a group of howling, violent blacks and their white acolytes could storm your property and threaten to burn it down was unthinkable. No one would have sympathy for domestic terrorists. Sympathy would be reserved for the victims of the attack.

    Law and order was still a treasured value of American society.

    With alarming speed, this is swirling down the bathtub drain.

    The white couple from St. Louis, Mark and Patricia McCloskey, were minding their own lives in their beautifully restored home when they were stormed by a mob of domestic terrorists. They shot no one, but guarded their home with guns from the violent mob, who had managed to tear down an iron gate.

    They are being prosecuted, not the Mob. It was only after Tucker Carlson of Fox News, hammered their innocence over and over did any Republican elected official contact them, and it was a milky, wimpy letter of acknowledgement. The Missouri AG filed an amicus brief.

    The Soros backed DA Kim Gardner, a repulsive black AA candidate who I seriously wonder how she passed the Bar, is prosecuting the McCloskeys for felony gun charges and evidence tampering.

    This should frighten and unsettle every white, law abiding US citizen. It should capture your attention. You are not allowed to protect your property from a terrorist mob. What were the McCloskeys supposed to do? They called 911- and were told no one could help. Offer these domestic terrorists a snack? Pay them to not burn their house down?

    We are in slippage.

    • Agree: Ron Unz
  56. Richard B says:
    @76239

    US foreign policy is surprisingly very consistent no matter which buffoon occupies the White House.

    And not just foreign policy, but domestic and economic as well. Our Invite the World, Invade the World and In-debt to the World policies haven’t changed since they blew JFK’s head off in front of a bunch of smiliing unsuspecting school children and their parents.

    Xiang only detects a pattern of “Western civilization versus a non-Caucasian culture. That language is very dangerous. It’s a direct rehash of Samuel Huntington, and shows very little room for compromise.”

    Caucasian? The USA is a Judeocracy and everybody* knows it. No one’s falling for this obscurantism anymore. The continued use of such transparent and desperate deflection is just so silly and obnoxious. And a “rehash of Samuel Hunington”? What the —- ?

    But it is true that, being a Judeocracy it “shows very little room for compromise.” Or, as an Jewish friend put it, “How can anything Jewish be democratic?”

    * I say “everybody” out of politeness.

  57. anon[310] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ron Unz

    And what about our insane sudden assassination of Iran’s top military leader in January? So Iran *also* did something very wrong?

    And would a Ron Unz of the world know whether this “decision” had “OK” votes cast by members of Mullocracy running Iran?

    Do Ron Unzs of the world know of the guy who dreamed up IRGC? And how he died “under mysterious circumstances” in Iran-Iraq war? Some say he was a genius.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mostafa_Chamran

    You will note, Mr. Ron Unz, that the current wikipage for Mostafa Chamran does not even mention IRGC.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_commanders_of_the_Islamic_Revolutionary_Guard_Corps

    He was the first commander of IRGC.

    Soleimani probably knew a lot. It is naive and childish to assume the faction that he represented in IRI is the sole power cluster. It is not.

    Islamic Republic of Iran, like the People’s Republic of China, has a ruling clique that is divided between Globalists and pseudo-nationalists. Start there.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Von Rho
  58. Miro23 says:
    @Sean

    Basically an argument for Might = Right. Mearscheimer’s Realpolitik is highly dangerous. He says that it’s unacceptable to US hegemony that China can have its own sphere of influence in Asia – and it must be fenced in (in other words threatened – including its economy) by the US and Asian allies. His list of US allies is Korea, Japan, Vietnam, India and Russia. According to Mearscheimer, it’s unacceptable that the US has any global peer competitor.

    The interview was recorded in 2008, so by 2020, Russia can be counted out of this anti-China alliance, and we also have the answer to Mearsheimer’s question about Chinese development. He asked whether Chinese growth could continue at the pace of the last 10 years (speaking in 2008) with the answer being yes (and the US is also more of a political and economic disaster than Mearscheimer could likely have imagined).

    Watching the video, it’s clear that Mearscheimer’s Realpolitik is concerned with power, domination and threats (the usual ZioGlob CIA package) so he no doubt approves of the destruction of Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, Syria, Serbia, the CIA coup in Ukraine/ coup attempts in Turkey, Venezuela, and Belorussia.

    The downside is that it’s all winners and losers – like he says, human rights and values don’t come into it (except as political window dressing). He approvingly states that the US “cut off at the knees” 20th century German, Japanese and Russian imperial projects – so maybe now it’s the US’ turn to get “cut off at the knees” in the regular flow of world realpolitik.

    I wonder if any of these ZioGlob CIA lunatics have ever considered that friendly respectful relations between countries (regardless of how powerful they may or may not be) could be a viable alternative.

    • Agree: Godfree Roberts
    • Thanks: Joe Levantine
    • Replies: @Joe Levantine
  59. Anonymous[278] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    Exactly. The US assassination of Soleimani took place with the connivance of some other faction in Iran, doubtless Rouhani’s neoliberals. The ridiculously staged Iranian “response” should make that obvious. The contortions the retards here went into to “explain” Iranian actions are on par with their embarrassing justifications of Putin’s continued butt cheek-spreading.

  60. anon[310] • Disclaimer says:
    @obwandiyag

    We don’t know who made the virus, nor do we know how it got released, but we do know that China was the first country to push plague hysterics and Western MSM dutifully propagated these (now we know) completely ridicolous psyops.

    Remember people dropping in the streets in China?

    Remember how the hysteria got started?

    It was not a “US bioweapons lab” that started the MEDIA HYSTERICS.

    It was China. So adding the missing choice:

    C. CCP attended Event201 and CCP leadership is fully on board with ID2020 agenda. This “made for TV fight” is to keep the peons from rushing the local castles and hanging these “elites” by their necks, until dead.

    https://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/event201/recommendations.html

    CCP is a member of the Global Cabal. The conflict today is a conflict in the Global Cabal. Blogs like this are instrumental in perpetuating a “pick a side” game for unempowered peons (like you, me) while the tiny minority in various countries hash out deals to ensure the continuity of their familial prosperity and their clique’s grasp on local power.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @obwandiyag
  61. For his alleged brilliance, the author seems very clueless about the dislike of China by the world at large. It’s not that the majority of the world, which is non white, wants necessarily continuance of western civilizational dominance, but what they don’t want is: no Chinese rule over the world, either financially or culturally. China can enjoy its hard earned economic prosperity at home along with its ancient culture but the rest of us aren’t interested in their hegemony. So, before it’s too late, check your hubris at the Great Wall…

  62. gotmituns says:

    there are definite limits to Chinese power because they can’t see too far because their eyes are always squinting.

  63. anon[310] • Disclaimer says:
    @MLK

    After all, what looks like smiles und sunshine to Escobar and Godfree ‘Gossamer’ Roberts is the Borg to everyone with their feet on the ground.

    Your otherwise excellent comment is slightly marred by the assumption that Pepe Eschobar or Godfree Roberts are saying what they are seeing.

    Just as no self-respecting successful capitalist (individual and corporations alike) wants to continue to have to compete every day, permanent one-party rule makes a lot of sense to our actual and would be overlords.

    But we already have the uniparty and the Military-Intelligence-Complex has been running USA since at least the assassination of Kennedy, if not earlier.

    It is something else.

    CCP has a complete ‘mind lock’ on its people. It is uniformy of thought, not a uni-party, that Eric Schmidt and friends in Alphabets and associated MIC fronts are lusting after. Right now, the “overlords” have decreed that US will move to digital currency, digital id, and compulsory use of smart devices for conduct of daily life. Their demonstrated complete control over “mainstream” news and media is a fact. But they still don’t have control over our mouths.

    The mask is symbolic.

    • Replies: @MLK
  64. Anonymous[278] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    Yup. Covid-whatever is one big scam, carried out by the CCP and American Deep State, supposedly mortal enemies but just rival gangsters who sometimes quarrel but ultimately get down to business. And the alt-right was a psy-op/limited hangout to help further that agenda.

  65. MLK says:
    @anon

    Your otherwise excellent comment is slightly marred by the assumption that Pepe Eschobar or Godfree Roberts are saying what they are seeing.

    Thanks, and you’re right. I thought twice about including that comment and I shouldn’t have. Escobar has been an invaluable chronicler of BRI and much more. He repeatedly drew my attention back to China’s rise during the Obama years and for that I’m grateful. He’s entitled to what I view as his cheerleading for the CCP which, by the way, should not have been analogized to Roberts’s cult of Mao.

    Moreover, upon further consideration I shouldn’t have made any assumptions about him allowing Xiang to shoot his mouth off.

    CCP has a complete ‘mind lock’ on its people.

    I don’t think so. In any event, I wouldn’t be the first to observe that surveillance and state coercion is no way to run a railroad. If nothing else it’s absurdly expensive.

    Perhaps that’s why our tech titans fancy it as a governance model. But whatever the benighted Chinese will (or must for the moment) tolerate, I consider it sheer madness to think that it has any hope of success with Americans.

    If the post-WWII East Germans couldn’t build an enduring regime with a severely culled, and ever so earnest German population, then what hope do the totalitarians have in the US of A?

  66. anon[121] • Disclaimer says:

    I think a complete decoupling would actually be good for both countries and the world. We need to produce more of what we consume, they need to consume more of what they produce. The US will lose our technological edge if we continue to outsource our manufacturing know-how. China can also mount a serious challenge to the US tech monopolies by creating their own software and hardware platforms.

    I agree that the BRI is too ambitious and grandiose. We should just sit and watch, there’s no need to panic. Either the whole thing is going to collapse due to cost overrun and political challenges, or it’ll get built and we can also take advantage of it to move our goods along the route. Especially in light of Covid19 however, I think perhaps many countries have become wary of closer ties to China, not just in terms of being swamped by hordes of Chinese tourists/businessmen/emigrants, or cheap goods that decimate their domestic industries, but in terms of spreading pandemics across borders, which often originates from China due to their combination of poor hygiene, exotic eating habits and huge population.

  67. sally says:
    @TG

    yes, agree =>“Made in Hong Kong” was actually made in slave labor factories in mainland China, and Hong Kong had the unique privilege of being the toll booth for slave-produced goods in China being shipped to the West.”

    HK hid the USA and British companies that were deep inside of China sneaking around other people’s copyright and patents, just as the British corporations, in the American Colonies, managed to sneak around the British Patents and copyrights during the time the Americas were still subservient colonies to Britain.

    IMO, the the USA stole from America everything it had of value, It managed the theft by imposing copyright, and patents law, and by privatizing most of Americas public assets, which enabled the Oligarch owned Wall street to finance the corporations they chose to support, to the steal and transfer nearly all of American productivity and industrial know how. But the Chinese, just like the Americans, watched the Americans carefully, and emerged with better and more profitable monopoly power than the West will ever again have. Oligarch control over the USA is responsible for the demise of the American Economy, but is also the champion of USA economy. Hopefully, Americans are working on ways to ignore the USA. and develop economies of their own.

    Xiang to quote Aristotle: “Democracy can never work in bigger countries. In city-states, it does.” And armed with Aristotle, we step into Hong Kong: “Hong Kong had rule of law – but never a democracy. The government was directly appointed by London.

    The only democracy implemented in modern times, occured in the period between the End of British Rule in America 1776 to 1887, and the re establishment of British Rule in America. USA No. 1 [1776-1787] was a democracy, instead of after 1787, when the British Oligarchs reestablished crown governance and control over America by operating as USA #2, <= one might call this THE REBOUND REVOLUTION, because it truncated the Articles of Confederation and replaced it with Oligarch written and imposed federalism <=ratified by the same people that wrote the document<=basically it says the Oligarch owns and controls all that the Republic governs. The 2nd Revolution of 1787, converted Democracy into an Oligarch only system, public domain into private property, and Democracy into Federalism.

  68. haha says:
    @Malla

    You have said it so well!

    “The USA is the ruler of a North America World Island, safe from attack from Eurasia, but thanks to its industrial power, navy etc… can interfere in Eurasian affairs keeping itself safe from afar. The USA has military bases in Eurasia but no Eurasian power has significant military bases in the Americas.”

    My two cents now. That is the REAL problem, the core problem, in the world since the end of WW2. American bullying, unilateralism, and dreams of “full spectrum dominance” have arisen from its unique geographical advantage. It can do to others what others cannot do to it, hence its exceptionalism.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Joe Levantine
  69. Anonymous[278] • Disclaimer says:
    @haha

    Agreed, and unfortunately (despite the hypersonic/BRI/ad nauseum fantasies of the Team Russia retards and CCP-worshippers) this situation is not changing anytime soon.

  70. China is under zionist control, as is the ZUS and ZBritain and ZRussia and ZWorld, and this control is derived through the zionist central banks which control every nation in the world.

  71. @Malla

    Hi Malla,

    Your analysis is deep and comprehensive though I would have liked your take on one new aspect of modern warfare, namely cyber warfare. Here, I have heard from an analyst a few years back at Rense radio that China has in the PLA around 30,000 professional hackers.

    Going beyond military quantitative and qualitative analysis, how do you think a less than two hundred fifty years old America would fare against a civilisational country dating back to millennia and whose main ideology is Confucianism, not Abrahamic religions, with its emphasis on patience, discipline and the long term perspective.

    I think that the emergence of China as a leader in 5G technology and Xi’s declaration about China’s moving into the realm of a leadership in technology was a rude awakening to the West and all China has to do is to deprive the US of a casus belli for ten more years after which the showdown between the two greatest economies will resolve without a fight.

  72. Western men not want the life of a soulless insect automaton. I would rather die than live like a Chinese or under one.

  73. @Miro23

    “ so he no doubt approves of the destruction of Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, Syria, Serbia, the CIA coup in Ukraine/ coup attempts in Turkey, Venezuela, and Belorussia.”

    And we could add the nuclear bombing of Beirut Port on August 4th that went totally unnoticed by the Western media, with not one Western country honouring the Lebanese authorities’s request for satellite images of the blast that destroyed 60,000 apartments, killed hundreds and injured thousands.

    “ I wonder if any of these ZioGlob CIA lunatics have ever considered that friendly respectful relations between countries (regardless of how powerful they may or may not be) could be a viable alternative.”

    Yes, this is the one virtue that Western hegemonic instincts will never allow until such a time they are so consumed by their decadence that they will finally acquiesce to let go their lust for dominance and control in favour of their banking elites, out of sheer weakness.

  74. @haha

    “ American bullying, unilateralism, and dreams of “full spectrum dominance” have arisen from its unique geographical advantage. It can do to others what others cannot do to it, hence its exceptionalism.“

    Well, there is no need for anyone to threaten Exceptionalistan from without as it is capable of destroying itself from within. Most of the huge American arsenal is obsolete in a world of hypersonic missiles, and the deindustrialisation of America over the past thirty years has sapped its economy from its vitality, leaving the USD as the world’s reserve currency as America’s last tool to live beyond its means. The combination of QE’s and the huge deficits in America’s trade and internal budget are slowly but surely erasing that last advantage, as foreign holders of USD banknotes and treasuries will soon start having doubts about the USD. Also, the detrimental effects of the Federal Reserve’s juicing the markets in favour of the ultra rich at the expense of Main Street is bound to aggravate the social disparities in the US to the point of triggering internal chaos.

    Empires are like trends: they are born, they grow, they mature and then they die. Whoever cannot see the decline of the American Empire had better refresh on real history lessons.

    • Replies: @haha
  75. “Xiang’s main thesis is that “legitimacy in Chinese tradition political philosophy is a dynamic question. To transplant Western political values to the Chinese system does not work.”

    Does anybody have any idea what this means?

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  76. Tim too says:
    @Ron Unz

    “After all, how were they to expect that America’s government would suddenly go insane and start behaving in an extremely dangerous and irrational manner? ”

    because that’s what they normally do!

    Ron, such a joker!

  77. https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RRA394-1.html People’s Liberation Army Operational Concepts … RAND Corp This is interesting….. But still asking…. Why can we not also establish a Department of Peace, why just have a war department (Defense Department) in an ideal world the State Department would be an arm of the Peace Department instead of part of a Smedley Butler described company of CIA operatives and corporate/WORLD BANKER War is a Racket Gangsters? Look at how WW1 and WW2 were really organized by the Bankers/Corporatists/Military/proto State Departments under the directions of the Milner group and Tavistock types. Look at how Japan was industrialized/militarized and encouraged to take on Russia, China and eventually the US…. Look how “they” want us all to fight each other. How can we not fight each other should be the question. So the question is to what extent say the Illuminati control China and Russia, we know Illuminati like/do control Great (Evil) Britain, Germany, Israel, United States and once again they want us all to fight each other. How much is China and its Leadership and Money Capital Creation/Banking owned by Crown Forces of the Illuminati?

  78. anon[121] • Disclaimer says:

    Jews are great manipulators who excel in saying the opposite of what they’re actually doing. For example, they love to throw around the term “Rules-based” World order, but never bothered to explain what these rules are and more importantly, whose rules they are. Judging by Trump’s bullying tactics and assassination of foreign leaders when they weren’t even in combat or in their country, either the US is the biggest violator of these supposed rules and thus have no room to speak, or that there are no rules at all, only whatever benefit the Jews most.

    The best thing about the Trump admin is that he exposes to the world who is really in charge in America and how lawless and ruthless these people really are. The world is now seeing clearly what a Jew World Order looks like, and are making plans based on whether they want to be a part of that order. Me thinks Jews are once again overplaying their hands.

  79. haha says:
    @Joe Levantine

    Agreed as to decline of empires, trends etc. but the problem is it is not going to be an easy and linear process. Were Americans not so obsessed with their exceptionalism and mad drunk on hubris, peaceful trajectories could have evolved. American hubris is further fed by, let us face it, plenty of problems in and around Russia. In a world of blind, the one-eyed remains prince!

    • Agree: Joe Levantine
    • Replies: @utu
  80. @the cleaner

    There is considerable discussion in the West as to the source of governments’ right to rule. Max Weber proposed three sources:

    Traditional legitimacy derives from societal custom and habit that emphasize the history of the authority of tradition. Traditionalists understand this form of rule as historically accepted, hence its continuity, because it is the way society has always been. Therefore, the institutions of traditional government usually are historically continuous, as in monarchy and tribalism.

    Charismatic legitimacy derives from the ideas and personal charisma of the leader, a person whose authoritative persona charms and psychologically dominates the people of the society to agreement with the government’s régime and rule. A charismatic government usually features weak political and administrative institutions, because they derive authority from the persona of the leader, and usually disappear without the leader in power. However, if the charismatic leader has a successor, a government derived from charismatic legitimacy might continue.

    Rational-legal legitimacy derives from a system of institutional procedure, wherein government institutions establish and enforce law and order in the public interest. Therefore, it is through public trust that the government will abide the law that confers rational-legal legitimacy.

    [1]

    We can (and do) argue all day about what constitutes legitimacy, but the Chinese don’t because they settled that argument centuries before Jesus was born.

    The Duke of Zhou proposed the basis for legitimacy 4000 years ago and called it the Mandate of Heaven. Then Confucius built an entire political science around it and nobody has seriously argued against it for 2000 years: governments earn legitimacy by doing good things for their people.

    This chart, in Chinese eyes, demonstrates the PRC’s legitimacy:

    [1] O’Neil, Patrick H. (2010). Essentials of Comparative Politics. New York: W.W. Norton & Company. pp. 35–38. ISBN 978-0-393-93376-5.

    • Agree: Rdm
  81. Herald says:
    @Alden

    I believe covid hoax is a joint cooperative effort by every government on earth . I’ve no idea what the purpose of the fraud is and what the government’s intentions are.

    A hoax indeed it is and it’s about control and depopulation. The depopulation is to be brought about by vaccine and the control is needed to make sure that we all bare our arms for the genocidal witches brew. The outlook for nearly all of us is exceedingly poor.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  82. Anonymous[650] • Disclaimer says:
    @Herald

    Probably, yes. At a minimum they’re destroying the non-monetary economy to facilitate yet another bankster bailout. The “pandemic” is just the cover.

  83. utu says:
    @haha

    “…peaceful trajectories could have evolved…” – Like Cold War. It was pretty peaceful. No direct war between the US and the USSR. The war can be avoided yet the US will not give an inch of its current dominance. This includes Taiwan to not fall into China’s hands.

  84. Von Rho says:
    @anon

    “Pseudo-nationalism” is pleonasm. Nationalism was created by the bourgeoisie, as was globalism. Let’s stop believing in fairy tales. As Barnum said, no one lost money by betting on the stupidity of American customers. They also elected Joker for Potus.

  85. The USA does not have the balls to fight a war with anyone except the third world primarily due to the fact that Americans and NATO are cowards that only pick on people that cannot defend themselves so it looks like Americans are real tough when in fact they are real cowards and bullies instead.

    Furthermore, Americans are insolvent owing well over $30 trillion U$D in deficit as the $1.8 quadrillion dark pool derivatives universe deflates to reveal all the naked American swimmers like Bernie Madoff et al.

    NATO and the U.S. Army can get in line to lick my balls in deference to my superior intellect. And Pepe Escobar should really do his research before spouting off about Communist China or Communist Russian Federation geopolitical intentions via Finance.

    Americans can’t manage money, people, or their bloated undereducated Military Industrial Complex controlled demolition. The boneheads are insolvent, and I was raised by a Chartered Accountant.

    Fuck Wall Street, and the U.S Army, plus the cocksucking CIA.

    RW

  86. Biff says:
    @Anon

    The USA could easily invade and occupy China today

    Pfft..
    That’s hilarious. I would love to see USA try – you know – make a good hardy attempt.

  87. Art says:

    Nobody before Xi dared to tackle corruption. He had the guts to root it out, arrested hundreds of corrupt generals. Some even attempted two or three coups d’état.”

    Inscrutable is a word ascribed to the Chinese. Enigmatic, unfathomable, indecipherable are words that describe duplicity and dishonesty, the opposite of forthrightful. The Chinese are a greedy people – they love money – that is their ethos. China is a bribe culture. It does not work on a legal law bases. Its economy will grow to a point – then stagnate.

    Xi needs to take down a million dishonest officials – not just a few generals.

    p.s. China already has a “leader for life” and it has not even reach maturity yet. This is not good for China.

    p.s. Not being able to speak freely is a sign of Chinese weakness. It says that the Chinese people are incapable of rational discourse.

    • LOL: FB
    • Replies: @Whitewolf
  88. @Anon

    “A referendum on gay marriage clearly showed most Taiwanese didn’t support it. Gay marriage was legalized anyway. ”

    Indeed – Tsai and the DPP pushed it through… So much for “democracy”. As many noted – aside from making the DPP pleasing in the eyes of Europeans and Democrats in the US – there was also the reflection of Tsai’s own orientation…

    • Replies: @anon
  89. @TG

    Yea most of the wealth in Hong Kong was imported from Shanghai when the elites were fleeing the Japanese… They then increased when the communist revolution took over. The Brits were all too happy to receive them in Hong Kong. Shanghai took it’s spot back as the business hub of China. First the port surpassed Hong Kong – and now it’s capital markets. Tech R&D is not even close… Shanghai is three notches above of Hong Kong on that.

  90. kauchai says:
    @anon

    1) Do you know what that early arrival was?

    So what was the early arrival?

  91. @Malla

    “Also China should make some deals with South East Asian countries, give them fishing access to the South China sea and win them over to their side. Especially Malaysia, Singapore and Indonesia keeping the Malacca Straights in view.”

    That is exactly what China was doing. That’s what made the US so angsty. That’s where the farcical arbitration tribunal came from. Filipinos and Vietnamese were the only ones willing to go along with the US hopes of “no peaceful resolution”. The Code of Conduct was close to being implemented between China and all ASEAN. Then the US began massaging Vietnam’s ego… So now – Vietnam has been holding it up. The rest are all in. Duterte flipped the Filipino government – so the US lost that leg (though the military is still beholden to the west).

  92. denk says:

    yELLOW peril
    Then and now..

    In the 80’s when the book ‘JP as no 1’ sent chills down gringos spines, Jps were blamed for all kinds of evils, like ‘stealing our jobs’

    During the heat of Jp phobia, a Chinese was brutally beaten to death by two gringo car workers,
    The murderers mistook the victim for a Jap, anyway, they got away scot free.
    Gringos have been getting away with mass murders abroad, whats the big deal about some bashed Chinese skulls at home ?

    After [[[they]]] kneecap Jp with the Plaza accord, A new whipping boy was called for,
    Hmmm….’China the rising star’

    Thanks to the [[[five liars]]] yellow peril agitprop, EtHNnic Chinese have been abused, humiliated, assaulted even murdered in broad daylight, especially after the covid FF, the ‘Chinese virus’.

    Ironically, Yellow peril latest victim is a Jp

    The other day, a Jp pianist was brutally assaulted in fukus, incapacitated for work, the poor sod’s family is in dire straits now.

    The victim was mistaken for a Chinese, whose crimes made the Jp of 80’s look like child’s play.

    ‘They ‘steal our jobs, our IP, hack all our networks , they’r out to destroy our economy [as per Pete Navavarro and co], to top it all, they infect the entire world with their gawd damned virus’ [as per Trump]

    Hell, the chicoms even rough up our peaceful freedum fighters in HK and commit untold atrocities on our beloved moslem
    bro in Xinjiang

    Somebody wanna make the Chinese pariah of 21C, looks like [[[they]]] are succeeding with flying color,.

    NO need for conspiracy theory.
    This is the George Kennan doctirne in action.

    We Bode no peer competitor,,.
    .especially of the yellow hue….
    ‘Over my dead body’

    How do [[[they]]] ensure victory every time ?
    Its the good ole economic hitmen routine,
    If you cant beat them….send in the jackals.

    TAM,
    Tibet,
    Xinjiang,
    HK
    Terrorism in Afpak,
    SARS1 2003
    Ebola in Africa,
    Mh370 which took out dozens of top Chinese electronic experts….

    When all else failed,
    Activate SARS2,
    [[[They]]] get their reset and one world govn, mark of beast and all that craps.
    China gets the blame,
    A perfect crime.

    • Thanks: FB
  93. FB says: • Website
    @kauchai

    Excellent comment…

    A lot of good factual context and packed with meaty insights…

    Unlike this silly article…Escobar is basically clueless, although sometimes, by pure chance it seems, he manages to spurt out something half way reasonable…[the so-called ‘Saker’ is similarly often lost in clownland…]

  94. FB says: • Website
    @GreatSocialist

    Excellent comment…

    China’s present leader Xi, also had the guts to tackle the massive corruption in Chinese government and society that sprung up during these efforts and he has largely been successful. If only the USA had leaders of the quality of Xi and his team, for sure the USA would not be in the Shithole it now is in.

    This is it…this is why the corrupt western oligarchy hates Xi…and they hate Putin for the same kinds of reasons…

    Look, the whole western narrative [about just about everything, even mundane, unimportant things] has become such ridiculously obvious bullshit that one has to start feeling sorry for US the sole targets of this bullshit barrage…

    Every time we swallow a piece of their magic bullshit, no matter how small, our organism is harmed, of course…

    Sure they also try to spread this bullshit in China and Russia and everywhere else, and with some success in fact, which is not surprising considering the gargantuan bullshit gigafactory is surely a trillion dollar criminal enterprise employing many many thousands of brainwashed minions…such massive undertakings will inevitably have an effect…

    But one must ask, why is it so important to create this virtual, make-believe world that has nothing to do with reality and how things actually are…?

    The simple reason is that this appears to be what is keeping the doddering Ponzi Empire standing…it is simply a con game and people are still inserting money into the slot…because they BELIEVE…no other reason…take that away and the whole house of mirrors collapses…

    This clown Xiang sounds like he either an enthusiast of the bologna produkt, or perhaps even some kind of subversive working for the other side…either way, the fool Escobar seems to think it’s mighty keen to talk to this nothingburger and listen to his shite…

    • Replies: @denk
  95. Whitewolf says:
    @GreatSocialist

    We should call upon China, Russia, Venezuela and Iran to aid these heroic BLM and Antifa protestors, supply them with thousands of assault rifles to protect themselves, and pay them salaries so they can continue with their peaceful protesting against the barbaric and corrupt Trump regime.

    BLM and Antifa are organized and paid for by the same clowns that organized the Hong Kong rioting.

  96. denk says:
    @FB

    But one must ask, why is it so important to create this virtual, make-believe world that has nothing to do with reality and how things actually are…?

    Wanted: Enemy to Justify $344 Billion War Budget

    Latest: position filled.

    http://www.newsinsider.org/editorials/the_three_legged_stool.html

    • Replies: @denk
  97. Whitewolf says:
    @Art

    p.s. Not being able to speak freely is a sign of Chinese weakness. It says that the Chinese people are incapable of rational discourse.

    The same can be said of Americans despite having a first amendment to protect them.

    • Replies: @Art
  98. FB says: • Website

    Just as a contrast, a much more useful and realistic take on the China dynamic by Bhadrakumar…posted today…

    Quad won’t fly. This is why.

    The giant cockroach Pompeo, along with the Australian FM landwhale, plus Indian and Jap FMs at ‘Quad’ meeting in Tokyo

    A starting point will be to examine with a cool head the factors underlying the US’ hostility toward China.

    In a nutshell, the US’ predicament is that whereas it accounted for one-half or more of the world’s manufactures through the past seven-decade period, it now makes only about one-sixth. The US is paranoid that the era of its global dominance is ending. And, as happened often in history, the great power in decline desperately refuses to accept the geopolitical reality and adapt itself to a new normal.

    Today, China accounts for 30 percent of global manufacturing and continues to grow, with an economy that is almost one-third larger than that of the US in purchasing power terms and rapidly approaching parity at nominal exchange rates. China is hard to beat as it is now the largest consumer market on the planet and the biggest trading partner of over three-fourths of the world’s other economies.

    China is fully integrated into the global capitalist system and cannot be walled off from it. And China already possesses one-fourth of the world’s scientific, technological, engineering, and mathematics workforce. Its ascendancy has become unstoppable.

    Yet, China spends only two percent or less of GDP on its military compared to the current 7.9% spent by the US. China is disinterested in matching the US’ nuclear arsenal and adopts a “no first use” policy backed by a modest force de frappe that can conduct a limited but devastating retaliatory counterstrike.

    China cannot be beaten since, unlike the USSR, it is part of the same global society as the US. Look at the sheer spread of the US-China battlefields — global governance, geoeconomics, trade, investment, finance, currency usage, supply chain management, technology standards and systems, scientific collaboration and so on. It speaks of China’s vast global reach. This wasn’t the case with USSR.

    Above all, China has no messianic ideology to export and prefers to set a model by virtue of its performance. It is not in the business of instigating regime change in other countries, and actually gets along rather well with democracies.

    The heart of the matter is that India has no reason to be the US’ pillion rider. Whatever remained of the US’ exceptionalism is also gone as the world witnesses its pitiable struggle with Covid-19, repeated displays of racism, gun violence, political venality, xenophobia. No wonder, the transatlantic alliance is withering and Europeans are dissociating from the US’ effort to “contain” China.

    The US created the ASEAN but today no Asian security partner wants to choose between America and China. The ASEAN cannot be repurposed to form a coalition to counter China. Thus, no claimant against China in the South China Sea is prepared to join the US in its naval fracas with China.

    China has resources, including money, to offer its partners, whereas, the US budget is in chronic deficit and even routine government operations must now be funded with debt. It needs to find resources needed to keep its human and physical infrastructure at levels competitive with those of China and other great economic powers.

    Why on earth should India get entangled in this messy affair whose climax is a foregone conclusion?

    …China has no need to fight wars when it is already winning.

    • Thanks: Rdm
  99. Art says:
    @Whitewolf

    p.s. Not being able to speak freely is a sign of Chinese weakness. It says that the Chinese people are incapable of rational discourse.

    The same can be said of Americans despite having a first amendment to protect them.

    Stop putting down America – fight for it!

    Fifty years ago our parents and grandparents had free speech — it is time we take it back from the Jew thieves — end of story!

  100. Sorry Pepe, you really hit the goalpost on this. Back to China 101 for you, or better read Zhang Weiwei.

    • Replies: @Chinaman
  101. Chinaman says:
    @denk

    Thanks for It doesn’t take a genius to connect the dots and realise who’s behind all this, America’s fingerprints are everywhere and it doesn’t even bother to hide the evidence. As with H1N1, COVID is definitely an American Virus starting in early 2019 with the vaping death and flu season. What is interesting is that CIA and the deep state have flatout denied that it is a Chinese bioweapon which is unexpected given how they are wont to fearmongering and Trumped up charge and. I believe it is because they are the one who developed it and released the virus in Wuhan. It is sad that the Chinese government and its media ( or propaganda machine) have not been able to come up with an effective rebuttal against the onslaughts of misinformation and lies against China. You and I are doing a better job than they are! What I don’t understand is what is holding them back ? The evidence is all in the open now.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @denk
  102. Chinaman says:
    @Milonguero139

    Zhang Wei Wei is doing a good job but his dissenting voice is buried by a sea of misinformation and lies from the Jewish media.

  103. Ron Unz says:
    @Chinaman

    Thanks for It doesn’t take a genius to connect the dots and realise who’s behind all this, America’s fingerprints are everywhere and it doesn’t even bother to hide the evidence. As with H1N1, COVID is definitely an American Virus starting in early 2019 with the vaping death and flu season.

    But the theory you’re proposing really doesn’t make any sense.

    A key fact about Covid-19 is that it’s *extremely* contagious, and absent strong public health measures will grow exponentially in a community.

    If non-trivial numbers of Americans had unknowingly become infected with Covid-19 early in 2019, it would have spread like wildfire until detected, and millions of Americans would have been infected within a few months, probably with many tens of thousands of deaths, just as later happened in 2020.

    So that particular “conspiracy theory” seems mostly aimed at stupid people, and that’s one reason it has never caught on. I’ve already debunked it several times earlier this year:

    https://www.unz.com/article/last-man-standing/?showcomments#comment-3788148

    • Disagree: Robert White
    • Replies: @denk
    , @Chinaman
    , @Chinaman
    , @Rdm
  104. denk says:
    @Chinaman

    It doesn’t take a genius to connect the dots and realise who’s behind all this, America’s fingerprints are everywhere and it doesn’t even bother to hide the evidence

    So much for HIQ whites,
    hehehhe

    Tom LUngo

    Donald Trump has finally won a war. It’s a war he’s uniquely suited to fight, a propaganda war, and he’s successfully waged it on China through his command of Western media.

    ……………………..

    In fact, my fundamental problem with Trump’s China propaganda war vis-à-vis COVID-19 is that it lets the real culprits for how it unfolded around the world off the hook

    https://straightlinelogic.com/2020/05/24/trump-has-won-the-propaganda-war-with-china-by-tom-luongo/

    • Replies: @Poco
  105. denk says:
    @Ron Unz

    But they’re very reluctant to point to the pretty strong circumstantial evidence that the virus outbreak was a biowarfare attack on China (and Iran) by the Deep State Neocons. After all, that would be difficult to prove and also would be an act of war

    I’d say VERY strong circumstantial evidence.

    To recap…
    The avalanche of coincidences , bird flu, swine flu, army worms, SARS2, trade war, provocations at SCS, TW….
    defies the law of probability.
    It points to a bio attack.

    Who’s the motive,
    Who’s the means,
    Who’s a track record of assaults on China, including bio attacks ?

    Plus the myriad of predictive programming, messages hide in plain sight.
    Like chinaman says, they didnt even bother to hide it !

    It doesnt take a genius to figure out, you dont have to look far for a culprit, the master mind of this shit is right at home.

    PS
    I usually dont like to get bogged down in arguing about the mechanism of FF, how did they carry out the attack ?

    May be they planted a team of biowarfare troops in the sport delegation to spray the virus.

    Perhaps even the sport delegation was a diversion, they’ could’ve used field agents to crap it in the wet markets ?

    Gawd forbids,
    [[[they]]] might even have agents in the Wuhan lab !
    Who knows ?

    • Replies: @Barr
    , @Ron Unz
  106. Barr says:
    @denk

    USA china Switzerland created the virus in 2015. This is from NATURE

    [MORE]

    “Here we examine the disease potential of a SARS-like virus, SHC014-CoV, which is currently circulating in Chinese horseshoe bat populations1
    We generated and characterized a chimeric virus expressing the spike of bat coronavirus SHC014 in a mouse-adapted SARS-CoV backbone. The results indicate that group 2b viruses encoding the SHC014 spike in a wild-type backbone can efficiently use multiple orthologs of the SARS receptor human angiotensin converting enzyme II (ACE2), replicate efficiently in primary human airway cells and achieve in vitro titers equivalent to epidemic strains of SARS-CoV. Additionally, in vivo experiments demonstrate replication of the chimeric virus in mouse lung with notable pathogenesis. Evaluation of available SARS-based immune-therapeutic and prophylactic modalities revealed poor efficacy; both monoclonal antibody and vaccine approaches failed to neutralize and protect from infection with CoVs using the novel spike protein.

    Nature Medicine volume 21, pages1508–1513(2015)

    Wuhan Institute of Virology, Chinese Academy of Sciences,
    University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill ( more than 1 researchers)
    Department of Cancer Immunology and AIDS, Dana-Farber Cancer Institute, Harvard Medical School, Boston, Massachusetts, USA
    Institute for Research in Biomedicine, Bellinzona Institute of Microbiology, Zurich, Switzerland

    https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985

    • Replies: @denk
  107. Chinaman says:
    @Ron Unz

    Perhaps it is best I clarify my “theory” and lay out the evidences that led me to my conclusions. I want to make sure we are talking about the same thing first. I was a “quant” in finance so always happy to argue about the data and its interpretation. Most of what I learned about the origin of the virus at the beginning were actually from your site ( kudos to you). Since then, I have looked at wastewater studies from around the world and also Peter Forester’s research on the genetic age and evolutionary path of the virus. I assume you are not aware of these studies( which would be quite surprising) since I have not seen you referenced them even though they are extremely important results. I believe the wastewater and genetic studies are the ONLY scientific evidence worthy of consideration so far. linear or exponential extrapolations based on assumptions about R is not evidence, they are regression models with large standard errors. I would also hesitate to use “Arguments from incredulity” based on these model.

    The caveat of all this evidence I will present is that Forester’s GISAID data is from March and I have not seen an update so far. One of the commenters on your site, apparently a geneticist, have actually said some American scientists might have refrained from posting samples on GISAID that would contradict the official narrative. We might never know the truth. Anyway, as Keynes said, “if the facts have changed, I change my mind”. I am happy to be proven wrong and I anxiously awaiting a further update from Forester. Despite my passionate words, I am actually more interested in the science and don’t have an ideological axe to grind. Better to be corrected…than to remain stupid…


    https://asiasociety.org/hong-kong/events/coronavirus-updates-dr-peter-forster-episode-14

    Per Peter Forester’s thesis, there are 3 strains of the virus (ABC) and its genesis is sometime in September 2019. He have said there are large errors in this estimate ( due to sample bias) and it might have been much earlier. He have also basically concluded that it is unlikely that the virus have originated from Wuhan due to the fact that the predominant strain in Wuhan is the B strain which is descended ( or contain mutations) from the A strain. A strain is 96% similar to the bat coronavirus and is the most ancient form of the virus that supposedly jump to humans ( even though it might have took decades to mutate to such that form). 2/3 of the samples found in the US is of the primordial A strain. Other strains like B , C and strains with unique mutations were also found in America. The obvious question is of course why was the A strain the predominant strain in the US while it was the minority in Wuhan? Were caucasian and blacks more susceptible to the A strains? In that case, why was the A strain not the predominant type in Europe? The predominant strain in Europe was the B and C strain, none of the patients had the A strain! ( at that point) Peter refused to speculate on these matter and he have said his results are subject to serious sample biases. I am not going to take a leap of logic on this too. However, the hypothesis that the virus begun in the US cannot be refuted at this point due to inexplicable dominance of the A strain in US samples.

    The Lancet reported on similar research being conducted in Barcelona, Spain. At the University of Barcelona (UB) researchers analyzed raw sewage samples taken between April 13 and May 25 from two large wastewater treatment plants in the city. In addition, they analyzed frozen archival samples taken from one of the plants in 2018 (January-March), 2019 (January, March, September-December), and 2020 (January-March).
    They reported presence of the virus in samples taken as early as Jan. 15, 2020, 41 days before the Barcelona’s first known case was reported on Feb. 25. Most surprisingly, they reported the presence of two genetic fragments—IP2 and IP4—in a sample taken on March 12, 2019. Researchers in Brazil and Italy also have reported the early presence of SARS-CoV-2 in wastewater samples.
    In northern Italy, researchers tested samples taken from five wastewater plants between October 2019 and February 2020 and reported positive test results in samples taken on December 18 in Milan and Turin. The country’s first case of COVID-19 was documented on Feb. 21.“

    https://www.darkdaily.com/studies-finding-remnants-of-sars-cov-2-in-sewage-suggest-covid-19-may-not-have-originated-at-wuhan-market-some-scientists-dispute-the-findings/

    Monitoring wastewater for COVID have been adopted globally ( only recently in America) as a warning system for further outbreaks. The earliest sample of virus we have now is found in Barcelona wastewater in March 2019. We will never know whether that is a false positive due to contamination but all the other virus sample in the wastewater studies PREDATES Wuhan. ( October In Milan and November in Brazil). We also know people have been dying in France from COVID in Dec 2019. This dovetail with Forester’s assertion that the virus first spread to humans in September. The wastewater studies together with the genetic regressions studies are irrefutable evidence that the virus have been spreading amongst human populations AT LEAST before October and I venture to guess it is much earlier.

    The logical progression from here is obviously to compare these wastewater samples to the A strain and ascertain the genetic age of these wastewater COVID samples. I don’t understand why this hasn’t been done and ready to fund a study myself. I don’t think we will ever see a retrospective wastewater study from America but I will fund it to the tune of hundreds of thousands if you can find someone to do it.

    For me, the final missing piece of the puzzle that tie everything together is the article below. It makes the assertion that the vaping deaths in the US were attributable to COVID. Could be just CCP propaganda but I trust AI and supercomputers more than American doctors. These Americans were sick from pneumonia like disease that required ventilators in JULY and AUGUST. This is well within the timeframe and margin of error of a September genesis. I admit this is a mere conjecture but I don’t think Wuhan or anywhere else in the world had reported any “vaping deaths” at that point last year. China would have banned it immediately.

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3079046/chinese-supercomputer-and-american-doctors-clash-over-ai

    You have obviously done a lot more work on this than I did so I am not here to challenge your thesis at all. However, I have not seen you address any of this studies I have presented in your articles ( may be you did and I miss it) so this might be a good opportunity.

    Happy to be proven stupid.

    Thanks.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  108. Barr says:

    “For me, the final missing piece of the puzzle that tie everything together is the article below. It makes the assertion that the vaping deaths in the US were attributable to COVID. Could be just CCP propaganda but I trust AI and supercomputers more than American doctors.”

    Vaping is still continuing at more or less same rate .
    We need to know
    1 Has vaping products/chemical changed since then?
    2 Has the prevalence of vaping among those diagnosed with Covid been examined?
    and has Vaping been studied among those deceased with Covid?
    3 Viral RNA presence in the victims of the “vaping ” death
    4 Vaping an issue of younger age group Covid is seen in older ( death morbidity ) How did the 2 intersect ?

    • Replies: @Chinaman
  109. denk says:
    @Barr

    dude,
    Thats long debunked before.

    Did you notice the Wuhan staff Xi Zheng LI was listed at the end, meaning she was the least contributor,.
    In fact I heard she was mentioned only for her contribution of live BATS , samples.
    Thats primarily a UNC proj.
    Shi was robed in for a purpose…..to frame Wuhan lab.

    IN any case, I remember Nature clarify that the 2015 ‘GOF’ product is NOT the covid 19 virus.

    IN its latest update, Nature even says that covid 19 isnt man made !

    Man made or otherwise,
    it sure reeks of a bioweapon against China.

    • Replies: @Barr
    , @Robert White
  110. Chinaman says:
    @Barr

    Great questions and one that can be ascertained empirically. This could be the incision point to get to the bottom of this without ruffling anyone’s feathers. A win for Trump if Vaping death have been eliminated because they are all correctly categorised now.

    • Replies: @Barr
  111. Barr says:
    @denk

    Take hone message from this Nature is one thing and one thing only . That message is USA , China, and other countries have engaged in researches whose result could give and could have given rise to deadly engineered virus .

    A paranoid Chine would or might take umbrage and bristle at the suggestion that Chinese scientists would ever engage in these kind of researches . A Trump supporter might do same .
    These reactions is understandable.

    Chances are that USA and China are involved and is trying to deflect the attention from the going- on at the labs which are global and interconnected

    Only example I can think of is the terrorism whose controls are scattered leaving plausible deniability .

    Hope this helps .

    • Replies: @denk
  112. Barr says:
    @Chinaman

    I am not aware of non- pulmonary pathology in the vaping deaths.
    Not aware of any non- pulmonary symptoms by the sick alive vapers presenting at emergency ,

    • Replies: @Chinaman
  113. @denk

    The USA manufactured bioweapon SARS-2-nCoV-19 was engineered at Fort Detrick and the chimera was tested on a herd of pigs by a U.S. Army Epidemiologist in a U.S. Army uniform. The bioweapon was placed in a glass ampule and the Central Intelligence Agency instructed their U.S. Army soldier/athlete on how to deploy it via smashing it on the ground in the entrance way to the Hunan Fish Market as the USA contingent was slated to depart Wuhan district Military Games.

    Bloody Gina Haspel signed off on the Psyop and the CIA Analysts utilized plausible deniability via the false flag event in the Hunan Fish Market where they infected everyone in the market via the foot traffic that vectored the bioweapon into the complex so that USA adherents in Epidemiology could then offer the Pangolin transmission zoonotic transmisability as the obvious but false method of transmission from Pangolin to human infection. If you take a look at the director’s webpage for the National Institute of Health you will see the false flag Pangolin theory proposed early on in the genesis of the pandemic.

    China did not reveal their numbers of infected because they knew early on that it was a direct covert attack on China’s CPC ahead of the Trump administration failure to broker fair trade with China due to Trump’s ‘Art of the Deal’ double dealing charade. China’s Intelligence Community is well aware of the CIA intention to undermine their economic rise via One Belt One Road initiative and that’s why they were mum on the exponential rate of infection. Medical Signals Intelligence realized early on that Gain-of-Function deadly man made pandemic pathogen deployment by the USA Army contingent of below grade athletes was the most likely culprit given the U.S. State Department insistence that China’s BSL-4 Wuhan laboratory was the most obvious leak in that geolocation given the virulence detected by Medical Signals Intel.

    Their slip up in terms of security for Fort Detrick and the Central Intelligence Agency was my Counterintelligence via Remote Viewing as I actually Remote Viewed the planning stage, and chimera testing with a herd of pigs at Fort Detrick. I also Remote Viewed the CIA Instructor instructing the much younger U.S. Army soldier/athlete on how to deploy the glass ampule in the entrance way to the Hunan Fish Market post-Wuhan Military Games as the U.S. contingent was slated to depart the Wuhan region.

    The CIA Analysts created the plausible deniability thinking that nobody in the world could infiltrate their piss poor security.

    And I ain’t ‘nobody’, dork.

    Got it?

    http://www.cambridgeworkinggroup.org/

    P.S. I’m also a signatory and charter member of the 2014 Cambridge Working Group Call-to-Action on the USA manufacture of deadly man made Pandemic Pathogens. I signed for Carleton University back in 2014.

    Sincerely, RGW

    • Replies: @denk
    , @Chinaman
  114. denk says:
    @Barr

    Well NATURE is your go to source.

    I’d hardly be surprised if China has been doing research on coronavirus and others.
    In fact CCP would be derelict of its duty not to study counter measures after it had been attacked by SARS1, BUbonic, bird flu, swine flu for the past 70 years.

    I’d definitely not be surprised knowing fukus has been doing similar ‘GOF’ research either.
    The gringos have this morbid fetishism for all things deadly and lethal’, they pioneer every WMD known to men, prolly many more still unknown, dont they ?
    As for ‘defensive purpose’, anybody who believes that I’ve a bridge to sell.

    Its wot turns out to be War of Terror, killing 30 millions and displacing another 40 millions world wide so far.

    The Chinese have been denied international collaboration on all kind of high tech research, prime example is the US and Euro space station proj.

    They prolly jumped at the chance of a ‘joint research’ on Coronavirus with UFC, without realising its sinister connection to DARPA and USAID, thus walking into a trap.

    This has been a set up from day one.

    HOpe this help.

    • Replies: @barr
  115. denk says:
    @Robert White

    dork

    WTF

    I could sense this is a fukus FF when the Wuhan virus was still a non news, a few lines dispatch buried in page 20.
    Just like I could sense Mh370 was a FUKUS op from day one.

    Pangolin

    How’s that for message hidden in plain sight….

    Economist cover 2019

    Four horsemen , one with mask !

    and….Pangolin,

    • Replies: @FB
  116. antibeast says:
    @denk

    Wanted: Enemy to Justify $740.5 billion War Budget.

    That excludes the US budget for the Veterans Authority which totaled $220.2B in 2020:

    https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/security/reports/2019/12/04/478034/caring-u-s-veterans-plan-2020

    Wanted: Enemy to Justify $740.5B $960.7B War Budget.

    • Replies: @denk
  117. barr says:
    @denk

    Stop using yourself as a source . Definitely when science is involved . It doesn’t look good .
    Second don’t confuse with facts with opinion and opinion with hopes.
    America is a hegemon, a rogue. We don’t want any new hegemon to replace it. We want the world to be free of hegemon.

    • Replies: @denk
  118. Chinaman says:
    @Ron Unz

    I made a mistake with the dates of the Milan wastewater sample, it is 18th Dec 19. To be clear, the timeline we have is as below.

    Earliest sample found in Barcelona wastewater – March 2019

    Earliest sample found in Brazil wastewater -27 Nov 19

    Earliest Sample found in Italy wastewater -18 Dec 19

    Earlier confirmed coronavirus patient in Paris -27 Dec

    • Thanks: Godfree Roberts
  119. Chinaman says:
    @Robert White

    Dear Robert

    These are obviously extraordinary claims….hopefully backed by extraordinary proofs. Your narrative is that of the conspiracy theory making the rounds on the internet that “target stupid people” like me and which have been my working hypothesis since March but never been substantiated by any evidence.

    At this point, I would appreciate if you can give me DATES and the timeline of when these events- planning, animal tests and Gina’s signing off on the psyop- transpired. Nice if we could also know some details like why they use live pigs instead of say chimpanzees? And more importantly, how it comport with the phylogenetic networks and wastewater studies which shows its dissemination as early as October 2019.

    My other question is why don’t you walk in the nearest Chinese embassy? Given what you know CCP and plenty of Chinese will make you a billionaire if you are willing to be a whistleblower.

    • Replies: @Robert White
  120. Kali Yuga says:
    @Toxik

    No we will not be mixed. History is cyclical. The inevitable progress of history is garbage.

  121. Ron Unz says:
    @denk

    I usually dont like to get bogged down in arguing about the mechanism of FF, how did they carry out the attack ?

    May be they planted a team of biowarfare troops in the sport delegation to spray the virus.

    Perhaps even the sport delegation was a diversion, they’ could’ve used field agents to crap it in the wet markets ?

    Hard to say about the exact nature of the operation. But obviously having many thousands of foreign military officers in Wuhan for the Military Games would have provided ideal cover for the attack. Presumably many of them were doing lots of sightseeing, walking all around the city, and that sort of thing. My guess would be that 2-3 operatives were sent in among the 300 American participants.

    The timing of the Wuhan outbreak appears to match so closely with their presence, which seems an exceptionally unlikely coincidence.

    • Replies: @denk
  122. Ron Unz says:
    @Chinaman

    Thanks for your detailed response, and I apologize for my own rudeness.

    I think our starting point must be to recognize that the Covid-19 outbreak and its origins have now become a global flashpoint of international China/America conflict, involving a million or so deaths, trillions of dollars of economic devastation, and the new global Cold War.

    With such enormous international stakes regarding the blame and the assumed involvement of several leading Intelligence agencies, we must assume that the likelihood of active disinformation would be extremely high, especially in technical/scientific matters that none of us can easily check. Under these circumstances, I am *exceptionally* suspicious of alleged scientific evidence floating around that seems to support one side or the other, especially when promoted by various media organs. Why should I believe any of those claims?

    Here’s a trivial example of how gullible even reputable scientific/medical journals can be. As you probably know, a few months ago two of the world’s most respected medical journals, The Lancet and The New England Journal of Medicine, published ultra-high-profile studies co-authored by a leading Harvard academic demonstrating that the antimalarial drugs being widely used to treat Covid-19 actually increased the death rates, which led to a worldwide halt in their testing and arguments that they should be banned. But apparently, all the data provided was simply fraudulent, produced and promoted for business/careerist reasons by a low-level medical swindler, and the papers were retracted:

    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/06/two-elite-medical-journals-retract-coronavirus-papers-over-data-integrity-questions

    Now if the two top peer-reviewed medical journals can be so easily fooled by a single medical-swindler trying to market the fake data of his startup company, surely the world’s leading Intelligence agencies with multi-billion-dollar budgets can be at least as effective in promoting their frauds in the media for geopolitical reasons.

    For these reasons, I tend to be *extremely* skeptical of “scientific” analyses on this issue. As an example, back a few months ago someone named Yuri Deigin published an *exceptionally* detailed 16,000 word research study on the Internet strongly suggesting that Covid-19 was a Chinese bioweapon, accidentally leaked from the Wuhan lab, which many people apparently took quite seriously. But my reaction was very different:

    https://www.unz.com/announcement/our-facebook-ban-the-fatal-0-2/?showcomments#comment-3890285

    With so much “smoke” floating around on this issue, I try to focus on facts that seem undeniable, such as the epidemiological nature of Covid-19, notably its highly-contagious nature and approximate death rates.

    Let’s start with the SCMP suggestion that the summer 2019 “Vaping deaths” in America were caused by Covid-19. Almost all Vape-users are relatively young, probably in their teens, 20s, or early 30s, and those are the ages of the individuals cited in the article. Now everyone knows that Covid-19 has an *exceptionally* low death-rate for people in that age group, well below 0.1%. So if a few such Americans died of Covid-19 at that time, probably 10,000 or more in that age range must have been infected. And if 10,000 young adult Americans had been infected in summer 2019, we would have been in the middle of a *gigantic* national epidemic, with millions of infections soon following and many tens of thousands of deaths. That theory is empirically false and makes ZERO sense, like a theory predicting that rocks fall upward.

    The only way that scenario would work would be if the original disease outbreak in America had *entirely* different properties than the current Covid-19, with regard to its rate of contagion or its fatality-curve. But then it’s an *entirely* different disease, so maybe we should just call it “the Flu” instead.

    The fact that the journalists and scientists discussing these “vaping” theories have never noticed such an obvious point suggests that it’s all just dishonest propaganda being promoted for political purposes.

    A similar argument can be applied to all those claims of early 2019 outbreaks elsewhere in the world. If they occurred, then the disease involved could NOT have had the contagious/fatality properties of Covid-19.

    Covid-19 seems to follow an unusual spread-pattern, with “super-spreadering” individuals and events being key, and most victims never infecting anyone else. So it’s certainly possible that if 4-5 people had the disease somewhere, it might have just died out without spreading. But once dozens let alone hundreds of people have it, the exponential spread becomes virtually certain.

    Assuming the original outbreak was in Wuhan in late October/early November, there’s nothing particularly impossible about it having started to spread to Europe by December, and someone having died in France from it that month. However, I’m very doubtful about that March 2019 Barcelona wastewater datapoint, which seems to have been a one-off unique finding and therefore likely a false-positive. The October and November wastewater traces in Milan and Brazil are less totally implausible given international travel, but I’m still quite suspicious of the evidence.

    I can’t really say much about the different genetic strains in different countries, and while the claims are interesting, I just don’t see how they override the overwhelming factual reality of the points I made above. If America had had community-transmission many months earlier than Wuhan, the exponential death-rate would have made all the newspaper headlines.

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @Chinaman
    , @Chinaman
  123. @Chinaman

    I have already contacted the Chinese Embassy in Ottawa, Ontario CANADA, but the ambassador has not contacted me yet. Moreover, I don’t write dates and times down when I Remote View because I conduct intel in secrecy, and do not want to worry about knowledge being written down just in case of a raid on my home by the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, or Royal Canadian Mounted Police.

    [MORE]

    I have been Remote Viewing since I was a child too, and if I did document my intel I would be taking risk that is not necessary as I have excellent recall via Long Term Storage of memory.

    Suffice to say that I have told the Chinese Embassy that I will testify for the People’s Republic of China in any court in the land vis-a-vis the American bioweapon SARS-2-nCoV-19 manufacture at Fort Detrick, and deployment via CIA Psyop act of hot war against the Hunan Fish Market. In addition, Fort Detrick was shut down likely due to the spread of the pathogen from their herd of pigs that they tested the virus on to build the chimera. Once Fort Detrick was a hot spot the CIA was in a rush to dump it on Wuhan so that the spread was made to look like the progenitor leak came from China’s Wuhan BSL-4 lab.

    If the CIA had not dumped it on China the exponential spread and progenitor outbreak would have been empirically traced back to Fort Detrick.

    If the Government of China wants to contact me their Intelligence Community has access to my phone number and home address plus my email. So far no intel or government employees of China have contacted me.

    What I am telling you is accurate and true. I don’t lie or embellish facts of what I have Remote Viewed as that would render my intel useless if I did. Moreover, I have no reason to lie or embellish facts as I am not employed by anyone. Furthermore, I am a lifelong Marxist too so I am naturally defensive of China, Russian Federation, and Cuba.

    RW

    • Replies: @Chinaman
  124. Barr says:
    @Chinaman

    Yes , the symptoms are limited to lung ( pulmonary )

    COVID targets and produces at least 70% of the times various non – lung symptoms ( eye , muscle , stomach , skin , constitutional like malaise tiredness , fever , pain , headache ) , heart , brain .

    This is one area vaping victim might differ from non vaping COVID patients and might help separate

  125. denk says:
    @antibeast

    Candidate Trump had a very important message that most seem to have overlooked…..

    “I’m going to make our military so big, so powerful, so strong, that nobody — absolutely nobody — is gonna to mess with us,”

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-unveils-plan-to-boost-us-military

    Its Make USA MIC great again. 😉

    Surprise surprise,
    Trump the great white hope hoax
    turns out to be another glorified MIC salesman…
    just like all his predecessors !

    • Replies: @antibeast
  126. Chinaman says:
    @Robert White

    Ok. It is only now that I googled what Remote Viewing is and realise I was talking to a nut.

    May be I am much more gullible than Ron have implied! You had my attention when you mention Fort Detrick!

    • Replies: @Robert White
  127. @Chinaman

    You must have been talking to yourself again, Chinaman. Unlike you I have an Honours B.A. in Experimental Psychology with my major being Personality Theory. And the university I attended is an American Psychological Association sanctioned school. Moreover, given your acumen vis-a-vis spelling, grammer, punctuation, it is reasonable to assume that you don’t read much about Quantum Physics, or anything to do with Medical Athropology, or Consciousness.

    I do appreciate your bias being revealed upfront though as I now know not to bother conversing with you, or your ilk, Chinaman.

    RW

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  128. Chinaman says:
    @Ron Unz

    Now everyone knows that Covid-19 has an *exceptionally* low death-rate for people in that age group, well below 0.1%. So if a few such Americans died of Covid-19 at that time, probably 10,000 or more in that age range must have been infected. And if 10,000 young adult Americans had been infected in summer 2019, we would have been in the middle of a *gigantic* national epidemic, with millions of infections soon following and many tens of thousands of deaths. That theory is empirically false and makes ZERO sense, like a theory predicting that rocks fall upward.

    Thank you for taking the time to reply and by the way, thanks for hosting the site and the wonderful eye- opening articles! I want to respond to this point first. You have made a convincing case and based on what we know now about the death rate amongst the vaping demographic and R, it is indeed implausible that those vaping deaths are associated with COVID. I have actually anticipated you would refute the SCMP study with this logic and this is why I wrote “ I would hesitate to use Arguments from incredulity based on these models.”

    This is where the different strains per Peter Forester and high mutation rate of this RNA virus comes in and would cast doubt on your thesis. We know now that the B strains in Wuhan and Europe is the extremely aggressive and contagious strain that is plaguing the world and that the primordial A strain have almost completely died out. We also know that mutation of the A strain into the B strain most likely occurred sometime in late Oct and November when it begun spreading around the world. Now, what if the A strain had a high death rate but was not NOT very contagious ( which is why it died out) and those vaping death per SCMP were attributable to the primordial A strain and not the B strain which had the characteristic you have observed. We have already observed different R and death rates across different countries and we know the virus is mutating quickly. As such, it is reasonable to assume that the high mutation rate and natural selection would cause R to accelerate over time and we see exponential growth rate not only in infections but also in R itself! The exponential growth of R is consistent with the R rates that you have observed in Feb-March but also consistent with an early 2019 genesis of the A strain which was not as virulent but much deadlier strain ( the A strain)-

    I include 2 articles below which support my thesis.

    https://www.news-medical.net/news/20200825/Study-tracks-the-mutation-rate-of-SARS-Cov-2-virus.aspx
    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02544-6

    Not trying to nitpick here and I will be the first to say that it is most likely your theory is the right one since it is the simplest explanation and consistent with what we have observed. However, it is NOT the only plausible explanation and until we have more data and studies, the jury is still out on the timeline and genesis of COVID. Again, thank you for the good work and being America ‘s conscience. As I have said elsewhere ( which had your golden box), this is a time when the world and humanity should work together to defeat the virus and the origin of the virus should not be used as an excuse to start a new Cold War or to stigmatise 1.4 billion people. ( still reeks of a bioattack to me)

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Ron Unz
  129. FB says: • Website
    @denk

    I’m surprised nobody has commented here about this seemingly prophetic magazine cover…that issue actually came out in late 2018, many months before anyone had even heard of such a thing as Covid…

    I wasn’t aware of this at all, since I pay no attention to this useless fish wrap they call ‘The Economist’…so I searched around a little after seeing your comment, and there was all kinds of internet ‘conspiracy’ chatter at the time [late 2018] about what some of the cryptic symbolism was supposed to mean…500’th anniversary of Da Vinci…Putin and Trump, the Panda, and even the four horsemen of the apocalypse…but no one seemed to notice the facemask on one of the riders [Lady Liberty no less], nor the PANGOLIN…

    Of course it could just be a nice little coinkdink that they decided to put a frickin’ PANGOLIN on the cover…but somehow this gives off just enough creepiness that I would tend to doubt the coincidence theory…

    And so what is the deal with the whole COVID thing anyway…lots and lots of people are convinced it’s all a BIG LIE…even ordinary folks I know that are just level-headed family people…of course we have had here on this website all kinds of doubters and writers like Mike Whitney beating the drum continuously that this is economic suicide, and unnecessary at that…

    But to what end…what is the purpose of this engineered collapse, if that is what it is…?

    I’m pretty satisfied that the disease itself is legit, it can be much more deadly than any flu…but maybe not THAT much more dangerous as to pull the plug on the economy…

    Is it possible that this is a deliberate plan to collapse the this unworkable Ponzi Scheme of an ‘economy’ based on financial sleight of hand…

    A perfect cover to shovel trillions to the too big to fails [with pretend money that the Ponzi Empire doesn’t have and is just pulling out of their butts…?]

    Maybe the financial house of cards was about to collapse anyway, and some kind of cataclysm, or even apocalypse, was the only option to forestall a messy downfall…?

    I would not be the only person to speculate that, faced with a total collapse, the Ponzi Empire might even go nuclear…is this the milder option…?

    • Replies: @Robert White
    , @denk
  130. @FB

    I agree with your assessment of The Economist pictogram of key symbolism utilized as signifying signposts of apocalyptic semiotics. Roland Barthe’s Semiotics is key here for the propaganda espoused by that plutocrat rag of rags.

    The Pangolin symbolism is far too prevalent today whereas it was virtually unknown at this point last year. Suffice to say that if you read Wall Street on Parade you will find that Pam & Russ Martens have been disclosing the trillions USD that the Federal Reserve is pumping into the Primary Dealer Credit Facilities which are dark pools opaque to public discretion. This is being done to prevent a crash of the Federally Insured Deposit Corporation bank holding companies like Deutsche Bank, Citi Bank, et cetera. Mid September 2019 the REPO lines of credit ruptured/hemorrhaged for the Daytime & Overnight REPO facilities which necessitated BlackRock’s entry to assume Federal Reserve REPO credit line duties where the Federal Reserve is now backstopping Junk Bonds and Hedge Funds, plus stocks.

    Powell won’t disclose how much money is being dumped into the REPO lines or to the Hedge Funds because he has deemed them Systemically Important Banks when they are nothing of the sort. They are doing this because China is dumping U.S. Treasuries whilst Congress is raising the debt ceiling via the dark pools without asking Congress for yet another bailout by the US taxpayers that were promised post-Lehman bankruptcy 08 GFC that the banks would not need another bailout again.

    And when Trump launched Smoot-Hawley Act II Make America Great Again Trade War “Art of the Deal” shenanigans it was GAME OVER Zero Sum in so far as one cannot increase economic/macroeconomic activity in a climate of deflation via trade wars that never pan out to the profits promised or expected for Wall Street traders or investors.

    The Economist is forecasting Blockchain Tech Modern Monetary Theory where they will kill the Petrodollar World Reserve USD currency to replace it with electronic money printing and a cashless society that is controlled via Bioinformatic Passports for COVID-19 [Pangolin Semiotic] which is a false flag event headed up by the BIG Pharmacology giants that will deliver Bill Gates’ wet dream for societal control via bioinformatic tracing, and passports injected subcutaneously [vaccine].

    The bioweaponized nCoronavirus SARS-2-nCoV-19 enables societal lockdown in preparation for the imposed New World Order via the Gates Foundation, NIH, WHO, International Monetary Fund, World Bank, Bank for International Settlements, Group of Thirty, et cetera. so that electronic Modern Monetary Theory can be sold to the public after the cash runs out.

    With electronic cash control over all of society the banks can continue imposing credit scores to eliminate lending to the poor. This enables the banks to establish the feudal empire of control over everyone including the black market underworld criminals that hoard & hide cash that the system needs to circulate in order to have a smoothly operating cash infused money dispersal system that only the poor actually use.

    Rich predator capitalists can then move money at lightning speed away from anyone that disagrees with their totalitarian rule of might over right.

    Control is always the end game. Petrodollar USD supremacy is now over due to debt-to-GDP in the USD system where the USA is over $30 trillion USD in deficit that will never be paid back to their foreign creditors like China and the Russian Federation.

    Controlling One Belt One Road is paramount for The Economist and Americans in debt up to their eyebrows compared to the alternative superpower of China & Russian Federation.

    The IMF will announce a basket of currencies backing MMT and electronic cash. Then they will attach Special Drwaing Rights to sovereign nations contributing to the currency backing. If China and Russian Federation don’t fall in line there will be no multipolar world order and WW3 will ensue against China & Russian Fed.

    RW

    • Thanks: FB
  131. denk says:
    @Ron Unz

    The timing of the Wuhan outbreak appears to match so closely with their presence, which seems an exceptionally unlikely coincidence.

    That certainly is highly plausible.

    Perfect timing….CNY mass traffic.

    Perfect venue…..The Wuhan biolab.

    For good measure,
    They even sponsored their dangerous gof coronavirus research at Wuhan lab….even when Chinese scientists were excluded from benign cancer research at the US !

    hENce we had people screaming from day one,
    The virus came from the Wuhan lab !
    Caveat Emptor !

  132. denk says:
    @barr

    Scientific

    There’s no scientific proof of ‘Chinese virus’

    Even your go to source NATURE disown that thesis.

    Dont rely too much on the authoritative voice, the expert, especially the western variety.

    Use logic, commonsense.

    Hegemony

    China boast of a national railway system larger than the rest of world combined.

    FUKUS boast of a defence budget larger than the rest of world combined.AND hundreds of military bases all over the world/

    The difference is like day and night.

  133. denk says:
    @FB

    There was this thread where Robj, 911Insidejob, Maosali and me discussed on this economist cover plus many more predictive programming…
    The satanic cultists who rule fukus reveled in telling their victims about their plot beforehand, according to their warped beliefs, this would absolve them of any retribution from gawd.

    If Im not mistaken, we got an admonition from RON not to indulge in cultists crap traps 🙁
    But these are non trivial, for example, Economist is a known conduit for the ptb to announce their next reality show to their serfs.

    On the four horsemen ….

    Before,

    After, ,

    Four Ambulances in UK fetching covid patients to hospital.
    FAIK, that might be [[[their]]] idea of a victory lap !

    • LOL: FB
    • Replies: @Robert White
  134. @denk

    The four horseman of the apocalypse are the leaders of Britain, Russian Federation, China, and USA as they are the sovereign nations with thermonuclear capability. The COVID-19 disease that is caused by nCoronavirus SARS-2-nCoV-19 is merely the opening salvo of hot war that has been ushered in for purposes of Hegemony and rule forward.

    Expect thermonuclear hot war very soon.

    RW

    • Replies: @denk
  135. Chinaman says:
    @Ron Unz

    I am *exceptionally* suspicious of alleged scientific evidence floating around that seems to support one side or the other, especially when promoted by various media organs. Why should I believe any of those claims?

    I agree with the “scientific” misinformation. The Hong Kong virologist Li-Meng Yan have been making the rounds in the US selling COVID as a Chinese bioweapon and actually wrote a technical paper on it which most layman wouldn’t be able to unpack or decipher. It has been debunked but it was actually vastly more convincing than the Fort Detrick narrative.

    Given the vast amount of conflicting information you have come across about COVID , I am interested to know what is your working hypothesis about the origin of the virus at this point ? Do you still think it is a planned US bioattack on China or are you veering towards a more mundane natural origin now?

    Thanks

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  136. I refer to the discussion of the Trump virus and its actual origin.

    I think by now it’s accepted by most researchers that although SARS-CoV-2 was discovered in Wuhan, it probably did not originate there.

    From my own personal experience, I believe the virus was circulating outside China already by the 3Q 2019, and from looking at the ancestral strains and descendent strains, it is an unarguable indication that the virus actually originated in the USA(but in a less virulent and infectious form), then spread to Europe, China and Asia, mutated there into more infectious strains, then returned from mainly Europe to re-infect America, this time very clearly causing large outbreaks, helped by Trump with his corruption and stupidity.

    The counter-argument that there would have been big, visible outbreaks in America in 2019 if it had originated there, is easily negated if one assumes that the virus, in its early form, when it just escaped from USAMRIID, was not as infectious as it is now. So there weren’t big outbreaks, and any cases or fatalities were overlooked as normal flu cases.

    The argument that supports this is the recent news that the predominant strain now is the D416G strain which has just mutated from the earlier strains. This has a much more robust spike protein that really ream itself into your cells without breaking off like in the previous strains

    Just like how Trump got his ass reamed deeply every time he did property deals with the Chinese.

    Thus, the new strain D416G, is supposed to be almost 10 times more infectious than the previous strains, because it has protein spike that’s on Viagra. This wasn’t the case with the earlier strains.

    Thus, if we go back in history, the early variants of the virus that escaped from USAMRIID Fort Detrick that probably escaped thru its sewage/wastewater after USAMRIID’s steam sterilization plant burned down in May2018, would not have caused massive outbreaks in the US population in late 2018 and early to late 2019.

    One very clear n distinct symptom of Covid-19 is the loss of smell and taste, along with the usual respiratory problems, exhaustion, poor oxygen intake etc.

    Peter Piot, a virologist credited as one of the discovers of Ebola, gives a good personal account of his infection with SARS-CoV-2 in sciencemag.org

    The fatal outbreak of respiratory illness at the Greenspring RC near to USAMRIID in July2019 never had any further news of its samples being tested later for SARS-CoV-2, when they had a test for SARS-CoV-2 (PCR)later the next year. However, it was mentioned in the media that the scans showed the distinctive patterns of Covid-19. And in 2019, the CDC said it suspected Rinovirus.

    All the CDC had to do was test these samples later on in 2020, and we would know whether it was Covid-19 or not. But it would destroy the fake narrative put out by Trump’s Petpig Pompeo that Covid-19 came from China.

    So the CDC was ordered by Pompeo to destroy the 2019 samples, just like other Flu research centres were ordered to destroy their 2019 and early 2020 samples to protect the “China Flu” narrative.

    Let’s not forget that Pompeo, as newly appointed boss of the CIA in 2017, almost for sure authorized the re-start of gain-of-function research into various bio-agents. Past CIA heads had ordered research into weaponizing anthrax and other bio-agents decades ago.

    I believe that the initial screwup with the CDC’s testing kits was deliberate and ordered by Pompeo, because it was too early for them, they needed more time to mask the true origin of SARS-CoV-2.

    Later on, Trump probably discovered that Covid-19 originated in the US from Pompeo and he thus withdrew the US from the WHO so that WHO would not be able to send teams that might trace the origin of SARS-CoV-2 to USAMRIID.

    The next question is whether it is man-made or not.

    We’ve all read the Nature article, but IMO, this virus was actually harvested in Yunnan China, the bat caves there, in 2013, as something like RaTG13. But then it was immediately shipped off to US labs like USAMRIID and WR and many others to be used as the raw base material for research.

    After years of breeding, crossing with other bio-agents and natural mutations in labs, it finally becomes something that still looks natural, but isn’t really natural. It wasn’t created from scratch, but it was a raw natural base that became as it is after years in labs. Whether it was done purposely, or accidentally became how it is thru the processes of research, I don’t know.

    Then poof, we get a big fire that burns down USAMRIID’s steam sterilization plant in May2018, USAMRIID switches to chemical sterilization, and Covid-19(early variants) escape for 1 year continuously until USAMRIID is closed down by the CDC in August 2019 after the Greenspring RC fatal outbreak), and only reopened in April2020.

    Imagine if that had happened to WIV in China. Closed for 8 months because of suspected breaches, allowing God knows what to escape thru the sewage.

    And SARS-CoV-2 seems to survive in sewage so well that cities can test their sewage for Covid-19.

    That’s how I see the origin of SARS-CoV-2.

    • Replies: @Chinaman
    , @Ron Unz
  137. utu says:
    @Chinaman

    The Chinese theory of 2019 Covid-19 epidemic in the US preceding the outbreak in Wuhan has been promoted by Godfree Roberts here at the UR. To deflect the refutation the Chinese theory on epidemiological grounds (as exemplified by Ron Unz argument) one must invoke, just as you did, an existence of a different kind of strain that has elusive and unusual properties. I have addressed this issue in May:

    https://www.unz.com/article/objections-to-an-independent-investigation-of-china/?showcomments#comment-3879505

    “We know that the one strain is 279x more lethal than the most benign strain.” – Godfree Roberts

    “Entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity.” – William of Ockham

    Introducing new entities to salvage your theory indeed is an urgent necessity for you. Next you will have to stipulate that the benign strain does not protect from being infected by the more lethal strain otherwise New York and New Jersey would not be going through the lethal epidemic. Once you make this stipulation then the whole point of the US being infected first is moot if the strain that US was supposed to be infected in September (1) was benign, (2) did not offer any protection from the more lethal strain and (3) is not being detectable by the serum test developed for the more lethal strain that first appeared in China and which came later to the US to ravage NY and NJ. (1)+(2)+(3) implies that the entity you invented does not exit.

    The Nature article you linked brings up some criticisms about conclusions on G and D strains. While the stains do indeed exist there is no proof that one is more infectious than other. The lab study were done on pseudoviruses not actual viruses.

    “What’s irritating are people taking their results in very controlled settings, and saying this means something for the pandemic. That, we are so far away from knowing,” says Grubaugh. The pseudoviruses carry only the coronavirus spike protein, in most cases, and so the experiments measure only the ability of these particles to enter cells, not aspects of their effects inside cells, let alone on an organism. They also lack the other three mutations that almost all D614G viruses carry. “The bottom line is, they’re not the virus,”

    You are trying to get some mileage out of Peter Forester work. I have addressed it in May here

    https://www.unz.com/article/objections-to-an-independent-investigation-of-china/?showcomments#comment-3880501

    I can believe that finding the intercept, i.e., when. H=0 is an accepted methodology but I do not see how H=0 implies “the first infection”. Mutations H must be measured from some reference. If we change that reference by adding an offset ∆H the intercept will be shifted. Ok, I do not know much about it, just pondering.

    and here:

    https://www.unz.com/article/objections-to-an-independent-investigation-of-china/?showcomments#comment-3879564
    Obviously he knows what he is doing and follows established methodologies in the field, however, I am pretty sure you can find critics of what he is doing. Any extrapolation always require lots of assumptions. His estimated confidence level is based on data statistics only and does not ascertain whether the necessary assumptions for the methodology to be valid are fulfilled. One is that the time vector is not determined by individual samples unless you know they have a valid timestamps. A genetic lab may easily find that (A,B) is a father-son pair but may have difficulty determining who is the father and who is the son in the pair.

    I did some search to find published criticism of Peter Forrester paper and was pleased to find that my doubts were confirmed on a very similar basis:

    No evidence for distinct types in the evolution of SARS-CoV-2, Oscar A MacLean et al. (14 May 2020)
    https://academic.oup.com/ve/article/6/1/veaa034/5827470
    A recent paper has proposed three ‘types’ of SARS-CoV-2 (Forster et al. 2020) and has also received substantial attention in the media. Although that paper does not make any claims of any functional differences among these ‘types’, many of the issues discussed above apply again to this work. The network Forster et al. produce uses the RaTG13 bat sarebecovirus sample to infer the ancestral state of the outbreak. By ignoring the temporal information given by the viral tree and the decades of evolution separating RaTG13 and SARS-CoV-2, the inferred ancestor of the outbreak in this network is likely to be incorrect. The choice of which and how many clusters in the network were named was made on the basis of the number of samples belonging to, and surrounding, each node. This methodology means that the sampling biases described earlier are very likely to be driving this classification.

    Why does China need the Chinese theory that the virus originated in the US and circulated there in 2019? It is very simple. First it is a mirror image of American theories that the virus escaped from a lab in China and second because China has no balls to address, let’s call it, the Ron Unz theory that the virus was seeded in Wuhan by the US. The approach of not directly accusing the US might be a good one and bringing up an unrealistic theory instead might be good for the masses and I understand that Chines propagandists like Godfree Roberts and you will be propagandizing the Chinese theory for the masses but I wish that Ron Unz would label you and Godfree Roberts as propagandists give some protection to the masses.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Chinaman
  138. utu says:
    @utu

    On more thing. The work of Peter Forster hinges on RaTG13 virus. Where from do we know about RaTG13?

    https://www.unz.com/announcement/31000-words-missing-from-the-atlantic-and-the-new-york-times-sunday-magazine/?showcomments#comment-4153879
    LEMOINE brings main actor Shi Zhengli and the virus RaTG13-CoV she discovered. But nowhere he mentions how the virus RaTG13-CoV became known. As it happens Shi Zhengli kept the virus up in her sleeve for several years and on January 23 just decided write a paper about it:

    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.01.22.914952v2.full

    where she showed that RaTG13-CoV was 96% identical with Covid-19. But what is interesting is that the virus was not logged in any database and Shi Zhengli did not have live or dead version of this virus but only it digital sequence. Her story was that the virus was discovered in 2013, sequenced and forgotten. Does it sound a bit too strange to claim to have a natural predecessor of Covid-19 just in time when allegations that the virus could have been of synthetic nature began to float among scientific bloggers? And I am not saying she was building an alibi just for China. After all her lab in Wuhan and she worked on synthesizing viruses for the gain of function together with Ralph Baric (collaborator of DARPA) of University of North Carolina while violating the moratorium on such research in not so distant past. Bringing up RaTG13-CoV on January 23, 2020 was like deus ex machina in a Greek play to resolve the intricate plot and put some unresolved questions to rest.

    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
  139. antibeast says:
    @denk

    Candidate Trump had a very important message that most seem to have overlooked…..

    I don’t believe what Trump says to his followers which is usually hyperbole but I do know that Trump wants the US military out of foreign countries and endless wars… FOREVER. That alone makes him persona non grata to the US Deep State, regardless of how much dollars he lavishes on expensive toys for the US military which is more of an ego trip for Trump.

    Trump winning in November 2020 will mean the end of the US Empire… FOREVER.

    • Replies: @denk
  140. Ron Unz says:
    @Chinaman

    Given the vast amount of conflicting information you have come across about COVID , I am interested to know what is your working hypothesis about the origin of the virus at this point ? Do you still think it is a planned US bioattack on China or are you veering towards a more mundane natural origin now?

    Sure, I think there’s very strong evidence that it was an American biowarfare attack against China (and Iran). How else could our DIA have distributed a secret report about the “potentially catastrophic” viral outbreak in Wuhan before anyone in China itself was aware of it? And what about the top Iranian elites being infected and dying before there had been any significant outbreak anywhere except for China?

    https://www.unz.com/announcement/31000-words-missing-from-the-atlantic-and-the-new-york-times-sunday-magazine/

    There are just too many astonishingly implausible coincidences otherwise. Probably the second most likely theory is that it was all orchestrated by the Venusians to play a practical joke on us Earthmen.

    • Thanks: Chinaman
  141. Ron Unz says:
    @Chinaman

    Thanks the very kind words about our website…

    This is where the different strains per Peter Forester and high mutation rate of this RNA virus comes in and would cast doubt on your thesis. We know now that the B strains in Wuhan and Europe is the extremely aggressive and contagious strain that is plaguing the world and that the primordial A strain have almost completely died out. We also know that mutation of the A strain into the B strain most likely occurred sometime in late Oct and November when it begun spreading around the world. Now, what if the A strain had a high death rate but was not NOT very contagious

    I’ll admit I haven’t really paid close attention to these theories based upon multiple Covid strain theories, but I’m glad to see that utu has apparently read some of the articles and already raised some technical doubts about them. But my skepticism is of a more general nature.

    It sounds like the theory is that both strains were natural, and “A” happened to mutate into “B” during late Oct./Early Nov. in Wuhan, with “A” having been already circulating in the US but being much less contagious. However, this also seems *extremely* implausible to me.

    The first question is how many Americans had been infected with “A” during summer 2019. Since you’re suggesting that “A” actually had a pretty high fatality rate, the numbers of the infected would have to have been pretty low if it didn’t reach the national headlines. So maybe a few thousand at most, and that’s only if younger people were the main victims and the “A” fatality-age curve were something like the “B” case. Also, if “A” had been circulating in America during 2019, wouldn’t there be some evidence of it, e.g. wastewater samples like in those European countries?

    But if only something like 1/100,000 Americans were infected, how in the world did it get to Wuhan? There were only 300 American military officers in the Games, and it seems *exceptionally* implausible that a few of them happened to be among the infected. Also, why didn’t they infect the thousands of military athletes from all the other country?

    Even worse, the theory has to assume that out of pure chance, the “A” strain that they happened to take to Wuhan suddenly happened to mutate into the much more infectious and/or deadly”B” strain. This piles improbability upon improbability.

    Anyway, this “A”/”B” hypothesis still fails to explain what I’ve repeatedly argued is the strongest evidence, namely that the DIA was fully aware of the Wuhan outbreak before anyone in China. If “A” and “B” were both natural and randomly brought into Wuhan, how would the DIA have known what was happening? And why would the leading Iranian elites have been hit so hard almost immediately after America assassinated their top general?

    Personally, I think all these scientific-type articles are just red-herrings, and it makes much more sense to focus on the public pattern of events and those sorts of exceptionally-unlikely “coincidences.”

    • Replies: @Chinaman
  142. Chinaman says:
    @utu

    Why does China need the Chinese theory that the virus originated in the US and circulated there in 2019? It is very simple. First it is a mirror image of American theories that the virus escaped from a lab in China and second because China has no balls to address

    Thanks. I think you actually know this stuff more than I do. let me say I don’t have an ideology axe to grind and I just want to get to the bottom of this. I am not associated with the CCP or “China” other than being Chinese. China doesn’t own Peter Forester and 2/3 of the samples in the US will still be of the A strain closest to RaTG13 even if American scientists did the study. Facts are facts. These facts needs to be explained.
    How did it get there and how related are these A strains to the EARLIEST sample of the virus we have which is March 2019 in Barcelona. If the Barcelona sample is a B strain, then it is definitely a false positive. If it is an strain more primitive than the A strain, then we can conclude the virus have been with us all along and it would completely redefine our understanding of the virus. It is exactly because I do not wish to over-interpret Forester’s results that I brought up the wasterwater samples. The wasterwater samples are perhaps the most important piece of the puzzle now. It drive me crazy that no one is making the connection between Forester’s results and the wasterwater samples. Why not put those wasterwater samples on GISAID? We already have the tools and data to get to the bottom of this. I am actually willing to fund a study myself with American scientists to do it. I am not afraid of the truth.

    You made an excellent point about the genetic distance between RaTG13 and COVID and Forester have said it would have taken decades or accumulated mutations to get to a 4% differences. There is an undiscovered “missing link” between RaTG13 and COVID. I guess this is where the whole engineered bioweapon comes from. I also didn’t know it was the “Batwomen” who pull it out conveniently so it does reek of shenanigans. Something is going on here. I don’t know what evidence or thesis that I have presented that makes me seem like a Chinese propagandist. This isn’t about China or America. Anyway, love to learn more About this from you.

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @utu
  143. Anonymous[121] • Disclaimer says:
    @Supply and Demand

    It seems that in the long run, in terms of the broad-strokes of history,there will be a decoupling.

    The West might decouple from China, the world as a whole . . . nah, don’t see it happening.

    It won’t be any kind of global decoupling from China. That’s impossible since China simply has too much dynamism and flexibility as a society and economy, which means that they simply have too much to offer anyone who chooses to have relations with them. Products, investment, infrastructure, affordable technology, a vast consumer market – the list is very long. The West might decouple from China, but most of the world, of humanity?

    Nah, I don’t see it happening.

    Basically, China is not the old Soviet Union (not hindered by ideology, not aggressive and subversive to the point of being shunned, not paranoid), not Japan pre-Plaza Acccord (not content to “know its place” within a Western-dominated world, has its own mind). It’s also not Nazi Germany (not stupid at diplomacy and grand strategy), nor even Napoleonic France (not having to hold down an Empire with armies, sapping its strength in the process).

    No, China is China – a very long-term, very viable, very different civilization from “the West”. The Chinese know, in their bones, that they MUST co-exist with the West. In time, the West will realize that we MUST co-exist with China.

    Indeed, not only with China, but with all the myriad rising civilizations, all of them non-Western. The G-20 list of fast developing economies is a good guide to who these are. They range across the planet, from Africa, South America, South Asia, South-East Asia, Eurasia – many peoples are on the rise, not just China.

    Are we idiots, imbeciles, morons to think that we can somehow keep every non-Caucasian people from developing, from advancing? Do we think that this process of non-Caucasian advance will stop if we somehow, improbably (and I contend actually IMPOSSIBLY) manage to “contain” China?

    I call absolute bullshit on that notion.

    So, the West loses its “primacy”, whatever that means. A world develops with NO ONE being on top. That describes 4,500+ of the last 5,000 years of recorded history.

    So what? Why sweat it? North America and Europe will remain great places to live, with our own ways, our own lives, our own cultures. Free from any sort of outside interference, and unable also to interfere in the affairs of others.

    That’s the “decoupling”.

    • Replies: @kauchai
    , @antibeast
  144. @utu

    Bringing up RaTG13-CoV on January 23, 2020 was like deus ex machina in a Greek play to resolve the intricate plot and put some unresolved questions to rest.

    There is an earlier (2016) paper which describes a virus sequence from the same sample of bat faeces collected in a Mojiang mine in 2013, and it matches RaTG13 perfectly, only that virus sequence is differently named. This is explained in an article by Latham and Wilson:

    Despite the confusion created by their different names, in a letter obtained by us Zheng-li Shi confirmed to a virology database that BtCoV/4991 and RaTG13 are both from the same bat faecal sample and the same mine. They are thus sequences from the same virus. In the discussion below we will refer primarily to RaTG13 and specify BtCoV/4991 only as necessary.

    https://jonathanlatham.net/a-proposed-origin-for-sars-cov-2-and-the-covid-19-pandemic/

    • Thanks: utu
    • Replies: @Chinaman
  145. Anonymous[121] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    The USA could easily invade and occupy China today

    LOOOOL!

    Uh yeah, WW2 Eastern Front 2.0 + WW2 Pacific War 2.0 incoming!

    But with us Americans as the ultimately defeated Germans and Japanese, this time around.

    But actually, you bring up a fair point. It’s this: the U.S. is itching for war with China, not the other way around.

    And the only way that war will happen? It’ll be because we lose our sanity, miscalculate extremely badly, and START the war – thus making us the clear AGGRESSORS.

    Let me repeat that – US, THE AGGRESSORS.

  146. Anonymous[121] • Disclaimer says:
    @Robert White

    You do realize that, whether your Remote Viewing is accurate or inaccurate, your testimony based on same will not be taken seriously by the greater mass of Westerners.

    However, there are in China many open-minded types in the government technocracy who might see some value in your . . . unorthodox methods. They are imbued “with Chinese characteristics” after all, so they do not discount something simply because they don’t understand it, and their view of the workings of Reality are amenable to modification.

    A strange bunch, forever reconciling the physical with the non-material.

    I suggest you make a good-faith effort to convince them.

  147. @denk

    A rather confused post.

    “Denk” starts his unhinged rant by spewing forth virulent, unreasoning hatred of “gringos” for several paragraphs, while claiming that said “gringos” have been relentlessly poisecuting, beating, and murdering the blameless Orientals for the past few decades because muh “racism” or something. (Is “denk” claiming to be a mestizo? An Asian? A self-hating White? Not really clear here — coherence is not exactly his strong point).

    “yELLOW peril
    Then and now..”
    “gringos”
    “brutally beaten to death”
    “Gringos”
    “abused, humiliated, assaulted even murdered”

    Etc.

    As far a “denk” can be said to be advancing a particular hypothesis (beyond blind hatred of “gringos”) he appears to be claiming that Evil Whitey just naturally hates the yellow man, and that this hatred is encouraged and intensified by anti-Oriental policies of the “gringo” establishment. Does he bother to make any specific, potentially-falsifiable claims to support this odd hypothesis? Let’s see:

    “The other day, a Jp pianist was brutally assaulted in ‘fukus’, incapacitated for work, the poor sod’s family is in dire straits now.”
    “The victim was mistaken for a Chinese, whose crimes made the Jp of 80’s look like child’s play.”
    “They ‘steal our jobs, our IP, hack all our networks…”

    This appears to be a reference to the attack on Tadataka Unno in NYC (Denk’s apparent vagueness as to the specific location can be chalked up to an idiosyncratic attempt to spell “New York City” — which fits with his generalized difficulties with the basics of spelling, punctuation, grammar, etc.).

    Let’s examine denk’s “explanation” for this incident. Remember, denk’s infallible feelz have “reliably” informed him that the perpetrators of this gang assault were “gringos” driven by a combination of inherent “racism,” US government policy, and fear of Chinese theft of their intellectual property to attack virtually any Asian on sight. Denk doesn’t bother to give any further details on the leading “gringo” suspects in this crime, but from his description, we can expect that the attackers are most likely to have been either:
    – a gang of State Department/ CIA employees, or
    – a group of MAGA-hat sporting, Yellow Peril-fearing, White supreemist Trumpsters.

    Let’s see if we can test that claim against some of the corporate “news” media narratives which describe this event:

    – He was badly beaten by a “group of about eight young men and women” in a NYC subway station. Hmm… The assailants are referred to simply as “teens” or “teenagers” throughout the rest of the piece, with zero attempt to offer a more specific description (in this piece, or any other mainstream coverage). This is starting to sound familiar…

    – “The teens are still being sought nearly two weeks later.”
    Perhaps offering a slightly more detailed description might assist in locating and apprehending the attackers? Huh — apparently not. You’d also think that a subway station might have some sort of video surveillance footage of this event, or at least of the individuals in the area at the time, but none has been published. Huh. So which subway station was this, anyway?
    “the West 125th St subway station of the B and C lines in Harlem

    Harlem — ground zero for Trump supporters, White supreemists, and all sorts of people worried about their intellectual property rights — and highly concerned with enforcing the foreign policy priorities of the US government… right?

    It’s also interesting that the NYPD seems reluctant to characterize the attack as a “hate crime” — which strongly suggests that the perpetrators were both non-White. Non-White vs. non-White “hate crimes” do little to advance The Narrative.

    “According to Unno’s wife, racial slurs were also yelled during the attack.”
    “But police say no anti-Asian remarks were indicated in the report but the investigation is ongoing.”
    “Authorities said they are not investigating the attack as a hate crime despite local leaders calling it ‘bigotry’.

    Or perhaps the entire NYC government is controlled by Trump-supporting White supreemists…

    But even if that this assault was not, as denk claims, the result of a dastardly Deep State conspiracy to genocide the yellow man? That it was a routine Negro gang attack — perhaps encouraged by the depolicing that has accompanied the BLM-antifa riots? The attackers still might have been inspired by US government policy, right? I mean, back in the halcyon, peaceful, crime-free days of the pre-Trump era, Blacks wouild never dream of committing violent crimes against Asians…

    https://web.archive.org/web/20130712185117/https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/nevius/article/Dirty-secret-of-black-on-Asian-violence-is-out-3265760.php

    Just as Blacks in the olden days cared deeply about accurately distinguishing among various Asian groups according to their exact national origin/ race/ culture, rather than referring to them all indiscriminately as “Ching Chong.” “Chinaman,” or some other generalized epithet:

    https://web.archive.org/web/20170608033120/https://yingma.org/1998/11/01/black-racism/

    Even anti-White, BLM-supporting Asians like this guy acknowledge the reality of Black-on-Asian violent crime:

    “…less than 0.1% of violent crimes against Blacks were committed by Asians. In the Asian row you’ll see that 27.5% of violent crimes against Asians are committed by Blacks.
    That’s a ~280x ratio — Blacks are 280x more likely to commit violent crimes against Asians than Asians are to commit crimes against Blacks.”

    When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. When you view every aspect of external reality through a “Ebil Whitey out to get the poor innocent Orientals” filter, then typical Negro criminality is somehow distorted into “White supreemist China-bashing.”
    Sad!

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  148. Chinaman says:
    @Brás Cubas

    This discovery seems to have very important implication but I can’t connect the dots. (I am slow) Can you spell it out for me what is going on with the reintroduction of RaTg13 by the Chinese?

    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
  149. Chinaman says:
    @Ron Unz

    Even worse, the theory has to assume that out of pure chance, the “A” strain that they happened to take to Wuhan suddenly happened to mutate into the much more infectious and/or deadly”B” strain. This piles improbability upon improbability.

    These are same “arguments from personal incredulity” that I mentioned. As I have said, your model is the simplest and most elegant with minimal “curve fitting” to the data so it should be adopted as the standard explanation but it would be a logical fallacy to say that the A\B hypothesis can’t be possible because it seems implausible or unimaginable to you. It is just not enough to falsify it. This will never be resolved until we have autopsies from the vaping death or wastewater studies as that was done around the world. What is *extremely implausible* is that they didn’t do these retrospective wastewater studies when even Brazil is doing it. I think they actually did it but didn’t dare to publish the results…

    Anyway, this “A”/”B” hypothesis still fails to explain what I’ve repeatedly argued is the strongest evidence, namely that the DIA was fully aware of the Wuhan outbreak before anyone in China. If “A” and “B” were both natural and randomly brought into Wuhan, how would the DIA have known what was happening? And why would the leading Iranian elites have been hit so hard almost immediately after America assassinated their top general?

    I have been in the US bioattack crowd from the start but there are a lot of missing links between what we know scientifically about the genesis of the virus now and that thesis. We know the likely transmission method in Wuhan but what about Iran ? How did they get infected with this killer strain? It is not like Americans are allowed roam free in Tehran as they were in Wuhan. I would also expect the vaccine to be ready in May if it was a bioattack. I assume whoever planned it must have those contingencies in place. ( big money there! ) the crazy thing is that the Russians came out with the vaccine first…the plot deepens everyday.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  150. Chinaman says:
    @GreatSocialist

    Thanks. So do you believe it was a deliberate US bioattack or was it accidentally released in Wuhan ?

  151. Trump is bigger on talk, but the policies of both parties aren’t much different on China.

    Obama sought a containment policy, the whole pivot-against-China thing. He also tried to create a trade pact with China left out.

    One difference is the globalists want to maintain trade ties with China while politically isolating it whereas Trump wants to rejigger the trade agreements themselves.

    But both are for militarily encircling China with navy and allies/puppets.

    Many seem to project Americanism onto China, as if China too is hellbent on becoming a superpower with hegemony over the world. But Chinese don’t think like that. Even with globalism and trade, they have a Middle Kingdom mentality, not a Frontier Spirit mentality.

  152. denk says:
    @antibeast

    hyperbole

    He’s full of it.
    BUt when it comes to ‘national defence’, he really walk the talk…like all potus before,.

    Wanted: Enemy to Justify $740.5B $960.7B War Budget.

    Now the sec of ‘defense’ wants 500 ships to counter the ‘China threat’.

    Standard gringo circular logic
    provoke the ‘enemy’ de jour, said ‘enemy’ beef up its own defense,
    ‘hmmm, WHY’d they need all those missiles, they’r up to no good, told you so, we need to increase our budget to counter this threat

    Wash, rinse, cycle.

    Trump anti deep state

    Disagree.

    Every potus has been the front manger of the DS.

  153. denk says:
    @Robert White

    NIH sponsoring gof
    weaponisation of virus….rings a bell ?

    https://newsone.com/2000601/u-s-paid-scientists-to-weaponize-bird-flu/

    They even published the recipe in 2012.

    Someone noticed that and made this comment….

    Socio-Economics History Blog Socio-Economics & History CommentaryHome
    AboutWeaponized Bird Flu Research Published as Virus ‘Just Mutations’ Away from Pandemic!

    Why would any sane person publish details about how to weaponize bird flu? We are not dealing with sane people. We are dealing with people infected by the blasphemous reality of the mentally ill: Satanism. We are dealing with Illuminists-Satanists who are out to execute their agenda for depopulation, genocide, fomenting chaos, diseases, deaths, violence …. to initiate hell on earth … to prepare the way for their fake messiah, the Anti-Christ, the bringer of false peace, the white horseman of Revelation 6. They want to use bio-weapons and even race specific Bird Flu in this coming Satanic World War 3.

    This act of publishing the detail how-to of airborne transmissible virulent Bird Flu is just for plausible deniability before the western Illuminati employs it. They will say it is an act of rogue terrorists and nothing to do with their MIC.

    Page 72 of PNAC (Project for New American Century) Report And advanced forms of biological warfare that can “target” specific genotypes may transform biological warfare from the realm of terror to a politically useful tool.

    Ex. British Military: The Illuminati Plans World War 3 in 18 – 24 Months!
    China will catch a Cold … During the nuclear ceasefire, there is planned to be a covert release of biological weapons. These will initially be targeted against the Chinese. As our source chillingly told us, “China will catch a cold”. Biological warfare will spread further, to the west. Infrastructure will be critically weakened. This is intended to be just the beginning. After this, a full nuclear exchange would be triggered: the “real” war, with widespread destruction and loss of life. Our source tells us that the planned population reduction through these combined means is 50%. He heard this figure stated in the meeting.

    [link is dead, webarchive doesnt help these days]

  154. Ron Unz says:
    @James Forrestal

    Let’s examine denk’s “explanation” for this incident. Remember, denk’s infallible feelz have “reliably” informed him that the perpetrators of this gang assault were “gringos” driven by a combination of inherent “racism,” US government policy, and fear of Chinese theft of their intellectual property to attack virtually any Asian on sight…He was badly beaten by a “group of about eight young men and women” in a NYC subway station. Hmm… The assailants are referred to simply as “teens” or “teenagers”…“the West 125th St subway station of the B and C lines in Harlem”

    Well, obviously “denk” is a little confused about the true nature of anti-Asian violence in America, but I really think you’re being much too hard on him…

    As far as I know, he’s a Chinese guy living in Singapore(?), and I’m not sure he’s ever spent any time in the US or really knows anything about our country. Therefore, except for a few “fringe” websites like this one, probably all his knowledge of America comes from various MSM outlets.

    Let’s be honest. Wouldn’t you admit that at least 30-40% of Americans are sufficiently naive that they would also assume that most anti-Asian attacks are committed by MAGA-wearing white Trumpists? And if many Americans can be so easily misled by our dishonest MSM, you really shouldn’t condemn some Chinese foreigner for making a similar mistake. I’m sure that many of us might have very distorted views of daily life in China or Singapore or Pakistan or Iran.

  155. Ron Unz says:
    @Chinaman

    We know the likely transmission method in Wuhan but what about Iran ? How did they get infected with this killer strain?

    I’m no biowarfare expert, but I’d think it would have been pretty easy. We’re talking about an extremely contagious, frequently asymptomatic new disease that nobody knew existed, so much so that it actually circulated in Wuhan for a month or two before health authorities discovered it.

    With regard to Iran, all you’d need would be a single (Iranian or foreign) operative who met with and infected a few members of the political elite, e.g. Members of Parliament. Over the next couple of weeks, they would quickly infect all the other Iranian elites they met with. As a result, 10% of the entire Iranian Congress was quickly infected. The initial infection took place just after we’d assassinated Iran’s top military leader and war with America looked like a very real possibility, so the Iranians obviously had other things on their minds than whether one of their colleagues had gotten a case of the flu.

    I would also expect the vaccine to be ready in May if it was a bioattack. I assume whoever planned it must have those contingencies in place.

    Well, I realize I’m probably in a minority on this, but I just don’t see that. I think it’s overwhelmingly likely that the biowarfare attack was by rogue elements in American intelligence, presumably affiliated with the Deep State Neocons, and under the circumstances, they obviously couldn’t launch a major effort to produce a vaccine for a future viral epidemic.

    Since SARS and MERS had never inflicted any significant damage to America or Europe, they probably just assumed that America would also be safe from SARS-2, especially since all the international bodies always ranked the US and Europe as being best prepared for any disease epidemic. I’d also assume they arranged for the DIA to become aware of the Wuhan outbreak and distribute that secret report to all our leaders and allies alerting them to the looming threat.

    Obviously, they were wrong and incompetent, but lots and lots of American leaders have been wrong and incompetent on lots of other things over the last couple of decades.

    • Replies: @Chinaman
  156. Ron Unz says:
    @GreatSocialist

    The counter-argument that there would have been big, visible outbreaks in America in 2019 if it had originated there, is easily negated if one assumes that the virus, in its early form, when it just escaped from USAMRIID, was not as infectious as it is now.

    So you’re arguing that Covid just randomly mutated to become vastly more infectious? And even though only the tiniest micro-sliver of the American public had become infected, a few of that tiny number of infected Americans somehow ended up going to Wuhan and starting a huge epidemic there because they happened to carry the highly-infectious mutation? And a few others of that tiny American group carrying that new mutation just happened to meet with the Iranian political elites and infect them soon afterward?

    Meanwhile, the original epidemic in the US entirely disappeared so that all later outbreaks here have been traced either to China or to China-via-Europe.

    To accommodate so many different, unrelated low-probably events, aren’t we talking about less than one-in-a-million likelihood?

    And how does your random-mutation scenario explain how our Defense Intelligence Agency knew about the “potentially cataclysmic” Wuhan outbreak more than a month before anyone in China? Or do you think it was just a very lucky guess?

    • Replies: @GreatSocialist
  157. kauchai says:
    @Anonymous

    So what? Why sweat it? North America and Europe will remain great places to live, with our own ways, our own lives, our own cultures. Free from any sort of outside interference, and unable also to interfere in the affairs of others.

    That’s the “decoupling”.

    Bravo! If only the “deep state” think like this it will be truly “heaven on earth”.

  158. Ron Unz says:
    @denk

    During the heat of Jp phobia, a Chinese was brutally beaten to death by two gringo car workers,
    The murderers mistook the victim for a Jap, anyway, they got away scot free.
    Gringos have been getting away with mass murders abroad, whats the big deal about some bashed Chinese skulls at home ?

    Since you’re a Chinese guy living overseas (in Singapore?), I think the American MSM has given you an extremely misleading picture of American society, which naturally irritates some of the white-activist types on this website.

    For example, whites make up about 60% of the American population, but over the last few decades I doubt they’ve been responsible for even 5% of the violent attacks against Chinese and other Asians in this country. Indeed, I’m sure the overwhelming majority of the attacks have been by American blacks, but the MSM just covers all of that up, so foreigners like you remain entirely unaware. In an exactly similar manner, the MSM covers up the vastly larger number of black attacks against against American whites.

    There were indeed lots of violent white attacks against Chinese immigrant workers about 150 years ago, but that was roughly in the same era as the Taiping Rebellion, in which tens of millions of Chinese supposedly died. Are Taiping rebels still a major concern in modern China?

    Since Han Chinese are the overwhelming majority of China’s population, the Chinese MSM is unsurprisingly pro-Han Chinese. This naturally leads Chinese people to assume that the American MSM is similarly “pro-white”, but that’s an entirely mistaken assumption.

    Here’s a much better analogy. The Manchus are today less than 1% of China’s population, but suppose that they still controlled China in modern times just like they had in past centuries. Obviously, continued control of China by such a small group would require keeping the 92% Han population unaware of that situation, and also perhaps having the Chinese MSM constantly act to suppress and vilify “Han nationalism” and even trying to indoctrinate the Han that they didn’t actually exist as a distinct group.

    Naturally, those Han who figured out what was going on (and often suffered government repression as a consequence) might become very irritable and touchy, and quarrel with lots of other people on the Internet as they complained about the unfair situation.

    Since you’re overwhelmingly focused on Chinese issues, I doubt you’ve read my very long recent article on “white racialism in America” but you might really want to take a look, especially at my section on a 1972 book entitled The Dispossessed Majority:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/white-racialism-in-america-then-and-now/#wilmot-robertson-the-dispossessed-majority-and-instauration

    • Replies: @denk
  159. @Chinaman

    I’m not sure how important it is. It’s one more piece in the puzzle. For example, when utu said that RaTg13 came to light only after the pandemic, I wished to point out that there was actually previous evidence of its existence, though with another name — the 2016 paper by Ge et al. For example, it dispels claims that RaTg13 was manufactured, since there is enough evidence of the incident with the sick miners in 2013.

    As for the paper by Latham and Wilson, it describes how the miners were infected with Ratg13 in 2013, and were sick for months. A sample of the virus was collected from the bat faeces in the cave. According to those two authors, that virus naturally evolved while inside one or more of the sick miners’ bodies, and within a few months became Sars-Cov-2. At that stage, further samples were collected from the sick or dead man or men in the hospital. That sample or samples were stored in the Wuhan lab until one of them leaked, probably by accident, in 2019. This is their theory.

    Others, whose name I forget, have a slightly different theory which says that RaTg13, rather than evolve naturally, was bioengineered into Sars-Cov-2.

    • Thanks: Chinaman
  160. antibeast says:
    @Anonymous

    The West might decouple from China, the world as a whole . . . nah, don’t see it happening.

    It depends on what you mean by the “West”. If you mean the USA decoupling from China, that’s been happening since the GFC in 2008, even before Trump came into the scene. Remember also that Obama started the “Pivot to Asia” which was supposed to “contain” China by negotiating the TPP, a trade pact which Trump withdrew the USA from on the first day of his office. As for Trump’s technology bans, Xi himself called for technological self-sufficiency shortly after assuming power and came up with the “Made in China 2025” program which so alarmed the incoming Trump Administration that the USA threatened technology bans against China, proving the wisdom of Xi’s vision for the “Made in China 2025” program in the first place. So much for Trump “containing” China.

    It won’t be any kind of global decoupling from China. That’s impossible since China simply has too much dynamism and flexibility as a society and economy, which means that they simply have too much to offer anyone who chooses to have relations with them. Products, investment, infrastructure, affordable technology, a vast consumer market – the list is very long. The West might decouple from China, but most of the world, of humanity?

    Contrary to popular misconceptions, China sells very little of its own Chinese products out of some $500B of exports to the USA, 60% of which are either US or foreign goods made in China with the rest of the 40% consisting of low-value, high-volume consumer goods or industrial commodities. Most Chinese goods or services are sold to Europe and Asia, followed by Africa and Latin America, which provides the rationale for the BRI as the infrastructure needed to connect overseas markets to the export manufacturing industries of China. Thus the impetus for this BRI was the GFC in 2008 which forced China to “decouple” from the USA by seeking new trade and investment partners all over the world.

    No, China is China – a very long-term, very viable, very different civilization from “the West”. The Chinese know, in their bones, that they MUST co-exist with the West. In time, the West will realize that we MUST co-exist with China.

    Again, it depends on what you mean by the term “West”. If you mean the EU, then China has pretty good economic relationships with the most of Europe, including its leading economies such as Germany, France and Italy. If you mean the UK and the rest of the WASP settler-countries such as Canada, Australia and New Zealand, it’s possible that they might succumb to Anglo-American pressure and decouple from China. But they’re marginal players, unlike China which is fast turning into the main hub of the global economy.

    Indeed, not only with China, but with all the myriad rising civilizations, all of them non-Western. The G-20 list of fast developing economies is a good guide to who these are. They range across the planet, from Africa, South America, South Asia, South-East Asia, Eurasia – many peoples are on the rise, not just China.

    Agree. The 21st century will see the rise of the non-West which includes not just China but India, Russia, Brazil, Mexico, Nigeria, Indonesia, etc. Here’s a list of the top 10 economies of the world by 2050:

    Are we idiots, imbeciles, morons to think that we can somehow keep every non-Caucasian people from developing, from advancing? Do we think that this process of non-Caucasian advance will stop if we somehow, improbably (and I contend actually IMPOSSIBLY) manage to “contain” China?

    So, the West loses its “primacy”, whatever that means. A world develops with NO ONE being on top. That describes 4,500+ of the last 5,000 years of recorded history.

    Spot on. Western chauvinists like to believe in “Western supremacy” whether in culture or ideology but history proves otherwise. The fact of the matter is that the “West” never was on top of the world except for the last 500 years in 5,000 years of human history. And the triumph of the “West” came about only after ravaging one whole continent — the Americas — while enslaving another — Africa. But the 21st century will see the rise of the non-West with vastly differing cultures and ideologies from the West.

    So what? Why sweat it? North America and Europe will remain great places to live, with our own ways, our own lives, our own cultures. Free from any sort of outside interference, and unable also to interfere in the affairs of others.

    The USA Empire is the last Empire to arise out of the “West”, most of which have had to behave like ordinary Western countries after the decline and fall of their Western Empires. Just like Spain, Portugal, the Netherlands, UK and France, the USA would have to stop being “exceptional” by turning into a normal albeit still powerful Western country, located somewhere in North America.

    • Thanks: Showmethereal
    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  161. @Ron Unz

    To address some of the questions:

    1)I was asked by Chinaman if I believe there was a deliberate bio-attack on china by the USA. My reply is that I can’t know based on the info I have.

    I believe the US is capable of such a thing, but I think we’ll only know in the decades to come if there is some some congressional investigation like was led by Edward Kennedy? like last time in the 70s over the US military testing before in the 50s n 60s for biowarfare on uninformed civilians as was reported by in one of the hardworking writers in this site.

    2)If the DIA was aware of the virus in Wuhan in late 2019, it again may not have been because of a deliberate release, but rather that they were already ware of the virus circulating in the USA and were tracking the path of the virus from the US through Asia to Wuhan, which as we know is a very big transport hub. But this just guessing.

    3)I wouldn’t characterize the infections initially in the USA as a micro-sliver, because so many infected are asymptomatic or have mild symptoms. There could actually be many more than we think, but many cases would be unrecorded or mistaken as Flu or other mild illnesses. There could have been 100s of thousands or even millions already, but as early variants, with lesser infectivity and lesser symptoms.

    If European cities like Barcelona and Milan and Turin can test for SARS-CoV-2 in 2019 and already find traces in their sewage, how many people in those cities already must have been infected, and what numbers, to have it show up in the sewage? And nobody realized Covid-19 was there also.

    I can’t fit everything nicely into a rough theory that is deduced from what we have as public knowledge, and it would be silly to try. What I have is a rough theory that seems obvious(to me) when I look at all the inputs we have as public knowledge. We shouldn’t cherrypick the inputs that support our prejudices, but rather take in all inputs that are credible n see how they detract or support whatever hypothesis we have formed.

    That’s how I do it in investment. I form a hypothesis that something is going up or down, based on what I see, then position accordingly and keep on testing that hypothesis every day as I come across more inputs. If enough inputs tell me I am wrong, I’ll reverse or get out accordingly, n I have been wrong many times, so I know the danger of letting our hopes or prejudices affect our view of the true picture.

    What might confirm the rough outline of the theory would be if CDC can confirm that the Greenspring RC(July2019) infected and fatalities had Covid-19(which they are unlikely to do).

    That would be the main hard proof and everything else could eventually be analyzed from there. It would indicate that there was an accidental release, probably from USAMRIID, given the proximity, the fire and the shutdown of USAMRIID by the CDC in August2019, just days after the Greenspring RC outbreak was reported.

    I am not a medical person, I am not a science person. I am a finance person. I don’t pretend to have any expertise or training in medicine or science. But from life experience, I think I know when the media is filled with propaganda or bullshit when I see it. I also have some family and friends as medical doctors, so at least I can ask them if I come across some obvious bullshit.

    In the beginning, almost all of us believed the MSM narrative that the virus came from Chinese mainlanders eating bats from the Wuhan seafood market. I even had to explain to some friends who came over from the US that “Chinese eat everything, even bats, so we can’t blame them for it.”

    Boy, was I wrong. It was the ancestral vs. descendent strains that first raised a red light in my mind. This is basic virology 101. If some area has all the ancestral strains(USA) and the other areas(Wuhan, Europe) only have the descendent strains, it’s likely the virus came from the first area.

    But then how to explain the the first outbreak is recorded in Wuhan? Answer: The initial outbreaks in the US were missed, unreported or covered up, and were probably not as serious as the later outbreaks. How to confirm? Test the samples from the infected and fatalities.

    But what happened to the samples? As reported in the media, CDC instructed all samples from 2019 to be destroyed.

    So how did the virus get to Wuhan? Did it come accidentally or purposefully with the US military for the Wuhan Military Games? Did it come from as cargo or people using Wuhan as a transport hub? Not enough evidence to know.

    But when I see Trump’s petpig Pompeo on TV talking about the China virus, this guy certainly looks like a gleeful liar who is hiding something.

    I remember the interviewer asking Pompeo for his response when the scientific consensus came out that the virus was not man-made. He said I agree completely with that. But just before that he was accusing China and WIV of creating the virus. The interviewer repeated herself, and Pompeo realized what she had said and switched instantly to blaming China for not warning the world fast enough and not taking action fast enough or strong enough to contain the virus.

    His instantaneous switch from blaming China for creating the virus, to blaming China for not acting fast enough, was so fast and smooth that it could only have been done by a liar who never believed any of those accusations in the first place.

    My last point concerns the mutations. It seems Ron is skeptical that the virus could just mutate over a year into a more infectious form. I was skeptical also. But if u have been following the science of the virus, there are many articles describing how the virus has very probably mutated just recently over the last 8 months into the more infectious D416G strain, and this is known because the DNA testing recently for all the cases tested shows the majority 70%? now test as the D416G strain whereas earlier this year it was not like this.

    It could even be that recent spikes in infected cases everywhere in the west are partially due to the new D416G strain that is like on Viagra, compared to the previous strains.

    So if it can mutate like this now, maybe back in 2019, it also mutated after moving from the USA into Europe, Asia and China, then came back and re-infected the USA, mainly from Europe, as Trump never stopped visitors from Europe until too late, and Cuomo also says that most of NY was infected from Europe.

    OK, that’s how I see it.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @Chinaman
  162. To clarify again, the way the virus has mutated just recently in 2020 into the D416G strain, shows that it may have also mutated in 2019, going from early variants that were not that infectious or virulent while circulating in the USA(after escaping from USAMRIID), then moving to Europe, Asia and China and mutating into a more infectious and virulent form and coming back from mainly Europe to re-infect the USA.

    This would explain why there were no big outbreaks in the USA in 2019, also helped by the cover-up by the CDC that wished to conceal the escape of the virus from USAMRIID. Very probably the CDC didn’t even know what escaped from USAMRIID, until later on after looking at the Greenspring RC outbreak and probably other cases.

    They probably thought they could gamble on covering it up, hope that any outbreaks in the USA would not be severe, and later on blame it on China, Asia or Europe when it reached there.

    Very sad and disturbing if this is true, but not unexpected at all.

  163. Ron Unz says:
    @antibeast

    The 21st century will see the rise of the non-West which includes not just China but India, Russia, Brazil, Mexico, Nigeria, Indonesia, etc. Here’s a list of the top 10 economies of the world by 2050:

    Actually, by most objective measures China’s economy surpassed that of the US several years ago, though our dishonest MSM articles endlessly claim otherwise.

    I’ve also seen some plausible arguments that over the last couple of years Russia’s economy has been roughly as large as Germany’s.

    And I’m pretty skeptical that India, Indonesia, or Brazil will be ranked as high as you suggest in 2050

    • Replies: @utu
    , @antibeast
    , @Showmethereal
  164. Ron Unz says:
    @GreatSocialist

    I am not a medical person, I am not a science person. I am a finance person…

    In the beginning, almost all of us believed the MSM narrative that the virus came from Chinese mainlanders eating bats from the Wuhan seafood market. I even had to explain to some friends who came over from the US that “Chinese eat everything, even bats, so we can’t blame them for it.”…

    I wouldn’t characterize the infections initially in the USA as a micro-sliver, because so many infected are asymptomatic or have mild symptoms. There could actually be many more than we think, but many cases would be unrecorded or mistaken as Flu or other mild illnesses. There could have been 100s of thousands or even millions already, but as early variants, with lesser infectivity and lesser symptoms.

    Hmmm… So you seem to believe that hundreds of thousands or even millions of Americans were infected with Covid during 2019 but nobody noticed at the time, the disease then suddenly disappeared, and now there’s no residual evidence of that gigantic national epidemic.

    I hate to be rude, but one of the points I made earlier was that lots of these “alternative-narratives” floating on the Internet around appear to be aimed at stupid people…

    • Replies: @GreatSocialist
  165. Chinaman says:
    @GreatSocialist

    In the beginning, almost all of us believed the MSM narrative that the virus came from Chinese mainlanders eating bats from the Wuhan seafood market. I even had to explain to some friends who came over from the US that “Chinese eat everything, even bats, so we can’t blame them for it.”

    Are you of Chinese ethnicity? Or American living in Asia? Chinese don’t eat bats…Indonesian do. I am vegan…

    Boy, was I wrong. It was the ancestral vs. descendent strains that first raised a red light in my mind. This is basic virology 101. If some area has all the ancestral strains(USA) and the other areas(Wuhan, Europe) only have the descendent strains, it’s likely the virus came from the first area.

    Peter Forester’s work here is pivotal.
    Honestly, I think the Chinese over-reacted and they shouldn’t have lockdown. If they kept quiet, covered it up like SAR1 and let the French or italians report it first…none of this Economic fallout and PR disaster would have happen. In the long run, the same amount of people would have died as we reach some sort of herd immunity. It is impossible to eradicate the virus now. It would become like H1N1, forgotten during the US election. My friend’s mother died from it. That’s how all these pandemics have been handled in the past…you ignore it and “sacrifice the weak”. What is different this time is that The West freaked out and tried to copy what the Chinese did but their freedom loving people does not have the discipline and resolve to go through with it. Suicides and the economic disruption probably killed more people than COVID at the end. Despite all the arguments that have been put forth, I think the probability that this is a bioattack is quite low…There have been hundreds, if not thousands of pandemics in human history. This is most likely just one of them.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  166. denk says:
    @Ron Unz

    According to a recent poll, at least 73% of yanks are sinophobes.

    Now Whites consitutes 76% of population, leaving 24% as coloreds.

    Barring relevant data, we assume the extreme scenario where all colored are sinophobes, meaning white sinophobes consitute at least 49% of population.

    Hence at least 49/76 = 64% of whites are sinophobes, certainly non trivial.

    Dont forget this is a best case scenario, from what I gather, it could go up to at least 70-80 %

    When you consider the [[[five liar]]] family as a whole, the pic is even clearer.

    ON international scene,
    [[[five liars]]] have always been the most hostile entity towards the Chinese ever since the days
    of Eight Nations Alliance..
    Even now, its leading a full spectrum assault on China at the UN forum, never mind at China’s doorstep.

    ON glass roots level,
    [[[five liars]]] consistently score the highest percentage of sinophobes in international polls.

    Even before this covid psyop, [[[five liars]]] boasted the most racial assaults on Chinese worldwide,

    As I pointed out elsewhere, [my reply to Forrestal doesnt pass muster ?], somebody have been setting up the Chinese as pariah of 21C for many years now.
    With the covid FF, [[[they]]]’ve nailed it.

    Blacks are neither the mastermind nor even the main grunts on the ground, when you look at the big pic.

    With so many whites speaking truth to power, I certainly wouldnt tar the entire [[[five liars]]] population with
    the same brush either.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Ron Unz
  167. utu says:
    @Chinaman

    More criticism of Forster’s paper. From Institut Pasteur site:

    https://www.pasteur.fr/en/research-journal/news/phylogenetic-analysis-sars-cov-2-strengths-limitations-and-over-interpretations

    Another particularity of the method employed by Forster et al. is that it is an exploratory method that provides a visual representation of data, rather than an inferential method that can be used to test a hypothesis and confirm or reject it with a certain degree of statistical confidence. So the scientists’ results are primarily interpreted visually, and there are no indicators as to their robustness. A further limitation of the study is the very small number of genomes used (160), despite the fact that on the day the article was published there were 6,000 genomes available. At the very least, the analysis should have been performed a second time with different samples to verify the stability of the results. Nevertheless, the article was indeed published, with many interpretations, especially the existence of three subtypes: A, “the ancestral type” from bats and pangolins; B, “derived from A” and “adapted to a large section of the East Asian population”; and C, derived from B and affecting Europe and America. These interpretations were subsequently reported in several newspapers in the United States.

    This over-interpretation of a small-scale study (160 genomes out of the thousands available) provoked a reaction from the international community. A group of nearly 40 international scientists wrote a letter, published in the same journal around 10 days after the article itself (two other letters were published the same day on the same topic). The letter reveals two major shortcomings in the study by Forster et al.:

    • Replies: @Chinaman
  168. utu says:
    @Ron Unz

    I’ve also seen some plausible arguments that over the last couple of years Russia’s economy has been roughly as large as Germany’s.

    Could you share a source?

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  169. utu says:
    @denk

    “According to a recent poll, at least 73% of yanks are sinophobes.” – Are you saying that Americans dislike Chinese more than Chinese dislike Americans? There are 3.8 million Chinese in America while there are less than 75,000 Americans in China. So if it is true what you are saying perhaps it is because Americans are more familiar with Chinese than Chinese are familiar with Americans and as you know familiarity breeds contempt.

    • Troll: d dan
    • Replies: @denk
  170. denk says:
    @utu

    I’ve yet to come across a case of mainland Chinese taking it out on the gringos amongst them inspite of this…

    https://www.unz.com/article/anti-chinese-racism-sets-stage-for-new-mccarthyism/#comment-4228101

  171. Chinaman says:
    @Ron Unz

    The Nextstrain dataset has the genetic age and so it is just a matter of searching for the highest value and comparing to earlier data in case the higher previous MaxAge data mysteriously disappears from the later dataset. From the June dataset, those without a (new) Clade classification means that they have disappeared from the new dataset. So currently Italy has the MaxAge sample.

    Age | Clade | OldClade | Collection | Country | Strain
    102 | | Untyped | 2020-04-01 | Singapore | Singapore/40/2020 <– missing
    101 | 20A | A2a | 2020-04-27 | Italy | Italy/TE26425/2020
    99 | 20A | A2a | 2020-05-10 | Belgium | Belgium/ULG-10182/2020
    98 | | A2a | 2020-03-24 | France | France/IDF3276/2020
    98 | | A2a | 2020-04-14 | Belgium | Belgium/ITM_C456/2020
    98 | | A2a | 2020-04-18 | Luxembourg | Luxembourg/LNS9272998/2020
    98 | 20A | | 2020-03-24 | Belgium | Belgium/PM-0324144/2020
    98 | 20B | A2a | 2020-04-09 | Luxembourg | Luxembourg/LNS3652733/2020
    98 | 20B | A2a | 2020-03-31 | Italy | Italy/VR_20COV31-19/2020
    97 | 19A | | 2020-05-20 | Singapore | Singapore/347/2020
    97 | 20A | | 2020-04-09 | France | France/OCC-18/2020
    97 | 20B | | 2020-03-13 | Finland | Finland/13M3/2020
    97 | 20C | A2a | 2020-05-04 | Sweden | Sweden/20-51167/2020
    96 | | A2a | 2020-03-23 | France | France/ARA12265/2020
    96 | | A2a | 2020-03-29 | Italy | Italy/TE7859/2020
    96 | 19B | B | 2020-03-28 | Spain | Spain/Valencia212/2020 <– MaxAge Clade 19B
    96 | 20A | A2a | 2020-04-13 | Germany | Germany/BAV-MVP0186/2020
    96 | 20A | | 2020-03-08 | Spain | Spain/Madrid_LP23_5852/2020
    96 | 20B | | 2020-03-22 | Israel | Israel/51141014/2020
    96 | 20B | | 2020-03-31 | Italy | Italy/VR_20COV31-18/2020
    96 | 20C | | 2020-03-11 | Sweden | Sweden/20-50294/2020

    Though I labelled clade 19B as WuFlu, currently the MaxAge sample for Clade 19B is actually from Spain. That give more weight for the recent report of finding the virus in March 2019 in Spain

    I have been wondering about that before. Spain has many of the senior age (early generation) SARSCoV2 samples in the GISAID dataset. I have avoided labeling them as SpanishFLu. The strange thing is that there is considerable overlap of the clade profiles for Spain and China, unusual for a European country that does not have obvious link with China like Greece or Italy which have negligible clade 19B WuFlu component (relabelled as to GISAID explicit assertion that the May clade B is the June clade 19B, even though clade 19A is the dominant clade in China as well as many other Asia Pacific countries). With more data it might be possible to show that clade 19B might be originated in Spain,

    I found GOLD on your site! The commenter duxe.ie have compared the “clade” or strain of the virus on GISAID and samples from Spain is the oldest strain giving credence to the theory that the March 19 wasterwater study were real and that COVID actually originated there!

    https://www.unz.com/comments/all/?commenterfilter=dux.ie

    I got a bit too excited and wanted to post it here immediately and I suggest we all go through his comments and his conclusions.

    Since the ‘Africa Origin Orange’ politicized the alleged source of the virus, many researchers already self censored the submission of older age (earlier generation) samples. For example from the May GISAID/Nextstrain dataset the net results from the USA subset gave NEGATIVE mutation rate, USA must have discovered the fountain of youth.

    This was my concern. we might never get to the bottom of this.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  172. Chinaman says:
    @utu

    I am interested to know what you think of the commenter dux.ie’s independent phylogenetic analysis based on foster’s methods?

    https://www.unz.com/comments/all/?commenterfilter=dux.ie

    I see that you have converse with him on the matter a few month ago. I am surprise you didn’t mention any of his findings which were extremely important? . Do you consider him an Chinese propagandist too? I have been intellectually honest throughout our conversation and I expect the same from you.

    For A2a China only has 13/141=9.22% while US has 934/1211=77.13%. From the GISAID phylogeny tree it can be shown that the Chinese A2a sample were spread from USA. It is especially obvious where on the 2020-04-18 dataset China has only 1 sample that is traced from the GISAID phylogeny tree to be spread from USA. Gonzalez-Reiche et al attributed the origin of clade A2a to Europe/NorthAmerica.

    The Yankflu ( his words…claude A2a) spread from USA to China. The Yankflu either came from Spain or from America. It seems that the oldest strain we have is from Spain which dovetails with March 19 Barcelona wastewater sample.

    We can forget Forster for now and your criticism of small sample size of 160. dux.ie tested with, I believe, 6000 samples. Let’s all try to curb our confirmation biases and look at the science.

    • Replies: @utu
  173. vot tak says:

    China will be the only major economy to see growth this year as world braces for long recovery from Covid-19 crisis – IMF

    https://www.rt.com/business/503455-imf-recovery-coronavirus-crisis/

    “China is set to be the only exception in this gloomy forecast because it can avoid recession and even expand its economy, though not as much as during previous years. The IMF anticipates that China’s gross domestic product (GDP) will jump 1.9 percent in 2020, while other emerging and advanced economies are set to plunge 5.7 percent and 5.8 percent, respectively.

    “Except for China, where output is expected to exceed 2019 levels this year, output in both advanced economies and emerging market and developing economies is projected to remain below 2019 levels even next year,” the report, compiled by IMF Chief Economist Gita Gopinath, said.”

    Talk about “own goal”. The zionazi-gays thought they would seriously hamper China with their latest bio-war against that nation, but China countered and withstood the bio-attack far better than expected and now is back on track. Meanwhile, the zionazi-gay flagship colonies are wallowing in the negatives still and will remain that way for some time as their oligarchs concentrate their power playng monopoly.

  174. utu says:
    @Chinaman

    ” Do you consider him an Chinese propagandist too? “ – Sure he is with his YankeeFlu and NatoFlu. But I will look closer at what he is saying.

    Actually before you brought him out (I completely forgot about him since May) I was wondering why there are no publications similar to Forster’s where thousands of genotyped strains would be used? The problem is that one must go through the database with a forensic mind attitude and check who submitted the data and from where and when the samples were supposedly collected to decide whether the genome could be trusted. In March I speculated how faked virus could be planted into the database to hide the synthetic origins of a virus.

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/corona-cost/#comment-3768878
    You find a known virus in nature (in the database of known viruses) that requires minimum number of modifications to obtain the desired gain of function. Furthermore you can create intermediate stage viruses and introduce them into the nature (some animals) and then have your trusted scientists to discover them and upload them to the database of known viruses. So when the culprit virus is identified during the epidemic and cross checked against what is in the database it may appear as it is a product of natural random mutations from its known precursors.

    https://www.unz.com/article/last-man-standing/?showcomments#comment-3792676

  175. antibeast says:
    @Ron Unz

    Actually, by most objective measures China’s economy surpassed that of the US several years ago, though our dishonest MSM articles endlessly claim otherwise.

    In PPP terms, China’s GDP has already surpassed that of the USA as early as 2014. But in nominal terms, China’s GDP will take another decade before it takes the top spot, sometime before 2030. Here’s a PWC study of the world’s top 31 economies based on GDP (PPP):

    I’ve also seen some plausible arguments that over the last couple of years Russia’s economy has been roughly as large as Germany’s.

    In PPP terms, Russia’s economy should be ranked higher than indicated by its nominal GDP due to the depreciation of the ruble, right next to Germany. Personally, I think Germany and Japan are ranked too high in 2050, due to their dependence on gas auto exports, which will likely decline as China ramps up its EV industry and starts exporting EVs to the rest of the world.

    And I’m pretty skeptical that India, Indonesia, or Brazil will be ranked as high as you suggest in 2050.

    Same here. I think India, Indonesia and Brazil are ranked too high while South Korea, Vietnam and Thailand are ranked too low, given their proximity to China which gives them access to the Chinese market. South Korea, in particular should get a big boost in population and land area plus a sizeable STEM workforce, after its reunification with North Korea. Vietnam and Thailand will benefit the most from the relocation of export manufacturing industries as well as the increase in outbound tourists from China. The Philippines with its unresolved Muslim and Communist insurgencies is ranked too high, making it to number 19 while Italy is ranked too low, dropping out of the top 20 by 2050. The UK also faces headwinds, with its non-EU status forcing financial firms to relocate out of London, plus a restive Scottish population clamoring for independence.

    With that caveat, it’s still safe to say that 15 out of the top 20 economies of the world by 2050 will be non-Western countries while only 5 will be Western countries, namely: USA, Germany, UK, France and Italy in that order.

  176. Rdm says:
    @Sean

    The real BS.
    US cut Germany kneel at WWI?

    For the love of stupidity, we might as well say

    we cut off Genghis Khan’s hegemony at its kneel.
    We also cut off Mongol’s Empire at its kneel.

    How much stupidity do we need to tell the world that we Americans are the most arrogant and stupidest people on Earth?

  177. Ron Unz says:
    @utu

    I’ve also seen some plausible arguments that over the last couple of years Russia’s economy has been roughly as large as Germany’s.

    Could you share a source?

    Sure, the IMF estimates based on PPP:

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/russia-worlds-5th-largest-economy-again/

    • Thanks: utu
    • Replies: @utu
  178. Poco says:
    @denk

    Regardless of where the virus came from, Donald Trump doesn’t command the Western media. If the Western media is propagandizing about China it’s the media’s doing for reasons of their own.

  179. utu says:
    @Ron Unz

    Thanks. This is in PPP terms. In nominal GDP (Gross domestic product (GDP) is the market value of all final goods and services from a nation in a given year.)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)

    Russia is still at 11th place behind USA, China, Japan, Germany, France, UK, India, Italy, Canada and South Korea.

  180. Ron Unz says:
    @Chinaman

    Honestly, I think the Chinese over-reacted and they shouldn’t have lockdown. If they kept quiet, covered it up like SAR1 and let the French or italians report it first…none of this Economic fallout and PR disaster would have happen. In the long run, the same amount of people would have died as we reach some sort of herd immunity.

    I’m utterly flabbergasted that you’re now a “Flu-Hoaxer” or at least a “Flu-Minimizer.”

    The evidence seems to show that the the difference in Covid-19 fatality rates between between victims 70+ and those under 30 is something like a thousand-fold. But averaged across all ages, it seems to generally run 0.5%-1.0%, probably much higher if it overwhelms the local health care system.

    So if the PRC had followed your suggestion and ignored the problem, probably tens of millions of Chinese would have died. Wouldn’t people have noticed that? Wouldn’t it have caused a total collapse of the economy? Wouldn’t the masses have been really ticked off at such a deliberate plan, and maybe overthrown and massacred their Communist rulers? Perhaps Taiwan and the Mainland would have finally been reunified…under a new Nationalist government.

    Instead, the PRC government took an entirely different approach and stamped out the virus with minimal fatalities. As a consequence, Chinese life has mostly gone back to normal and China is the only country in the world to have a growing economy this year. I just can’t believe you regard the Chinese response as a failure.

    Meanwhile, America has suffered the most deaths in the world and our economy has been wrecked, so I guess by your standards, Trump handled the Covid-19 exactly right.

    • Agree: GreatSocialist
    • Replies: @utu
    , @Chinaman
    , @Chinaman
  181. Ron Unz says:
    @denk

    According to a recent poll, at least 73% of yanks are sinophobes.

    Now Whites consitutes 76% of population, leaving 24% as coloreds.

    Look, you’re some overseas Chinese guy who clearly doesn’t know anything about American society.

    Non-Hispanic whites in America are probably about 63% of the national population, not 76%.

    And American whites—like people in most countries—tend to believe whatever the MSM tells them to believe.

    For the last few years, most of the American MSM has been massively demonizing Vladimir Putin and Russia for totally irrational reasons. So Putin is enormously hated and probably regarded as the evilest man in the world, with all the stupid Democrats believing that he stole the 2016 election for Donald Trump, his puppet.

    During most of that time, the MSM was focusing on Russia and not particularly hostile to China, so neither was the public. But in the last year or two and especially since the Covid-19 disaster, the pro-Trump elements of the MSM have begun massively demonizing China, and the anti-Trump MSM has followed along. So now a huge fraction of the public hates China. But if the MSM did a U-turn, so would public opinion within a few months.

    As an extreme example, I’m sure a good fraction of the Americans hostile to China cite the PRC’s oppression of the Uighurs of Xinjiang. Until the big MSM campaign started up, I doubt even 1% of Americans had even heard of the Uighurs or Xinjiang.

    Instead of being angry at the American public for disliking China, you should focus on the people who influence and control the American MSM which produced that result. If someone orders his dog to bite you, should you be angry at the dog or the person who gave the order?

    • Agree: Chinaman, Rdm
    • Replies: @denk
  182. @Ron Unz

    Yes, that is exactly what I believe. I don’t know what is the number, but it was enough to spread from the USA into Europe, China, Asia, then mutate again and come back again and re-infect the USA.

    At the same time the number of infected in the USA was not enough to be seen as big visible outbreaks, or was mistaken as the Flu or vaping deaths and it was also being actively covered up by the CDC(which suspected that it escaped from USAMRIID), and we have some media articles about Helen Chu in a Flu research center in WA? complaining that CDC asked her to destroy her 2019 samples.

    That’s right, I believe that early variants of Covid-19 were alrdy circulating in the USA by mid-2019, and it was being covered up by the CDC. I also believe that the virus moved from the USA into Europe, Asia and China during this time, n as I mentioned, I believe my sister contracted it in Asia in 2019 Sept.

    Then it mutated n came back to re-infect the USA. And I don’t want to be rude either, but that would explain again and again why the USA has all the ancestor strains of SARS-CoV-2, while Europe and China had only the descendent strains.

    And it can mutate, as shown by how the D614G strain with the super protein spike(like the Chinese reaming Trump’s ass in property deals last time) has become the dominant strain in only abt 6 months.

    That’s how I see it, I am sharing my thoughts here, and anyone is free to accept it or not.

    In any case, even if I am right, it has no practical use, because even if WHO eventually tracks the origin of SARS-CoV-2 to USAMRIID, what is the practical effect? Put the CDC head or fat pig Pompeo in jail? What a laugh. Sue the US Govt?

    But at least I am not stupid enough to believe the MSM crap or Trump BS or Pompeo BS about the virus.

  183. Ron Unz says:
    @Chinaman

    The commenter duxe.ie have compared the “clade” or strain of the virus on GISAID and samples from Spain is the oldest strain giving credence to the theory that the March 19 wasterwater study were real and that COVID actually originated there!

    Well, I’m just pretty skeptical that the virus was floating around in Barcelona in March 2019. Wasn’t Covid-19 only found in only a single day-sample of the local wastewater, and then disappeared for almost a full year? How does that make any sense? And why wouldn’t it have been found anywhere else in Europe or the rest of the world at that time? It really sounds like a classical reporting-error to me.

    Doesn’t it seem more likely that someone mislabeled a sample or there was some sort of lab-error? Or even as utu suggests, some Intelligence operative fabricated the results to confuse the history?

    If some petty medical-swindler running an obscure startup company could just invent an ocean of totally implausible data, get his results published in the world’s two most prestigious medical journals, and thereby produce a worldwide change in Covid-19 treatment, couldn’t the CIA or another Intelligence agency just bribe some lab guy in Barcelona to misreport a Covid-19 sample in the local wastewater?

    • Replies: @Chinaman
  184. There is so much evidence that the virus was circulating outside China in 2019 that anyone who still thinks it originated in the Wuhan seafood market, is quite frankly, either ignorant of developments so far, or is simply a person whose mind cannot open enough to grasp reality when it presents itself.

    I keep on getting arguments that Covid-19(not only here but elsewhere in normal conversation) could not have been circulating in the USA in 2019 because the media did not report any large outbreaks besides the Greenspring RC outbreak and vaping deaths.

    But that’s exactly how it would have been if early variants of Covid-19 were less infectious and flew under the radar as Flu or vaping deaths, and also if the CDC was actively trying to cover it up.

    At the same time it is very easy for a few dozen travelers from the USA to seed other countries with the virus, even if it was early variants. People who say this isn’t possible are simply ignorant of how diseases spread.

    I always say this to people in finance. Just because you can’t do it, it doesn’t mean other people can’t do it also. So just because you can’t believe it, it doesn’t mean it isn’t possible.

    And with that, I return to my reading of how Trump is getting his ass reamed in this election.

  185. Rdm says:
    @Ron Unz

    Ron,

    I have read every article of yours and am grateful for having this outlet. Yahoo even locked down their comment sessions after Covid-19. So I must say having a genuine and outspoken outlet in this pandemic have been a blessing in disguise.

    Most of the comments here, I presume, tend to come from well-read, often times highly educated individuals cloaked in online anonymous status. I thoroughly enjoy reading a series of those comments, sometimes sprinkled with an occasional bouts of twelve year old white trash and Chinese idiots.

    Regarding one of your articles on Covid-19 originated in the US and planted by American athletes, I’d like to go into detail a bit here.

    You claimed that Covid-19 was more likely originated in the US and planted in Chinese soil. I found it hard to digest. It’s highly unlikely and extremely impossible to develop a bioweapon that targets only a certain race on Earth.

    It’s a nice story to read and feel good about “How China successfully handled a secretive US bioweapon and the US just tasted it own medicine”. Of course the “gotcha” sentiment depends on where one stands on this global pandemic fiasco.

    There are many experts with different opinions on whether the virus was developed in China or the US. I’m not a conspiracy theorist. I have no strings attached. I don’t get paid for expounding if the virus originated in China or elsewhere. I’d lay out the biological facts based on my experience. Take a grain of salt if you will.

    1. To make a virus, you’d need all the proteins necessary for envelope, particles, DNA, capsid to assemble and make a complete virion. You cannot simply make a virus and carry in an empty capsule, even if it’s airborne. Virus need a medium or a host to sustain their continual existence. Even if those American athletes brought virus with them in liquid medium, if it’s highly contiguous, they would be the ones who would get exposed to the virus in the first place. [Let’s say for the sake of argument, they succeeded in planting virus in Chinese soil.]

    2. To sustain the virus longevity, it has to infect the host and spread further via respiratory maneuver such as coughing and sneezing. If you plan to use your secretive bioweapons to achieve your deep state stratagem, you’re not gonna infect only some bumpkins at Wuhan and call it a day. You want it to be massive in scale. This very fact requires you to design the virus to be able to infect any host and survive it longer. This begs the question “How does one design the virus in such a way that it only targets Chinese in general then?” The answer is you cannot. Besides, there has never been a study on massive scale testing where all populations on Earth had been tried with Phase I, II, III on all kinds of viruses and compared their vulnerability. Even polio virus infected every race equally. That’s a natural accident rather than man-made study. The only study Man has established the discrepancy between different races is Hereditary Diseases, where certain races have more preponderance to have a certain kind of diseases (eg, Cystic Fibrosis in Jews). The bottom line is, to design the virus specifically to target Chinese would have been more difficult than sending Men to the Moon.

    3. This is a side fact If you want to know why it’s difficult to target to a specific race. Humans have 3 billions DNA that encode for all the proteins that build up the entire body, our skin, bones, blood, neurons, everything. The difference between races is because of the level of expression of such proteins. Case in point, dark skin and fair skin. Out of billions of DNA sequences, 99% of DNA sequences between Humans and Chimpanzee are identical. You’d probably recognize we Homo Sapiens is higher in evolutionary tract than Chimpanzee and yet we are almost identical for 99% of the DNA sequences. That’s how much it tells us it’s extremely difficult to design any bio agent that only acts upon certain races.

    4. If this is the case, shouldn’t we be prepared if the virus was to be planted back in 2019 in China? We should be stockpiling all the masks and prepare all the fallout. Even if we had devised such a clever trick, act like we didn’t, we should have done some measure to protect our American soil, don’t you think so? No, no, ..not an easy answer like “We americans are idiots, Trump is a buffoon.” I’m talking about the preparation. Even if the deep state is highly involved in this matter and all those global Zionists are planning to control Chinese welfare, isn’t it too much of a make believe scenario where Jews will be happily thinking that this kind of virus will somehow infect only other races and not Jews at all ? Once the virus infects, it just infects. There’s no discrimination. Whether or not to be able to recover from the infection is another topic.

    5. Following up on those scenario, global Zionists should be stockpiling toiletry, Israel should be suspending any travelers from China based on some voodoo national statement. It won’t also be not difficult to issue an executive order to restrict Chinese travelers (students, visitors) by issuing fewer visas. But it did not happen at all. In fact, travel restrictions by the US were much much later than any other Asian countries that you can imagine. Once the breakout happened, Japan and Korea instantly restricts traveler from China in February. We were chilling for 2 months until April. Do you really think whoever planted this virus by the order of higher ups, were chilling, hoping that the virus won’t even touch the American soil while thousands of Chinese travelers were landing at east coast and west coast incessantly for 2 months?

    If it’s too long, here’s a short version.

    1. Coronavirus originated in China and it began innocently.
    2. Chinese government handled swiftly and contained the virus at its best.
    3. A few fallouts in Europe and the US.
    4. MSM here had genuinely thought this would be an opportunity to roast the presiding President.
    5. There are a few legitimate Covid deaths. But it backfired that all the covid deaths counts are incrementing based on existing pneumonia, asthma, cancers. Hospitals are getting paid from 5 to 6 figures if they have covid deaths due to lack of intubators. So it’s basically incentivizing the hospital to report more covid death counts.
    6. Now MSM was biting its own bullet, couldn’t backtrack from stalling covid death counts and yet couldn’t shut down the entire country for their own half-assed covid report. (CNN made Chris Cuomo as a decoy in March, as if he’s about to die. Tom Hanks, he’s another one on display. Kevin Hart got the Covid as Tom Hanks, but the guy was silent.) All those Covid related deaths, MSM hide the real causative agent, i.e., the victim preexisting conditions.
    7. It’s all because of Trump’s failure on tackling the disease.

    • Replies: @Chinaman
    , @Ron Unz
  186. utu says:
    @Ron Unz

    I think I know where from Chinaman is coming. He is thinking about the PR angle for China. I have argued before that China would have been better off if it exaggerated the number of dead and the damage the epidemic brought to evoke international sympathy. Create soft power by hiding the hard power.

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-our-coronavirus-catastrophe-as-biowarfare-blowback/?showcomments#comment-3951313
    From the PR perspective China indeed made a mistake. The greatest mistake was to suppress and eradicate the virus too efficiently and too quickly. If China emphasized the suffering of victims and showed some mistakes that certainly were made, China could gained more sympathy in the West which possibly would counterbalance the tone of schadenfreude and blaming China you could frequently see and hear form the very beginning in Western media. Just go read some January and February comments here at the UR and their tone: jokes, mocking and jeerings about the bat soup.

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/which-one-is-austria-and-which-one-is-australia/#comment-3917262
    Was it a mistake for China to be so successful in eliminating the virus? Was it a mistake to minimize the damage, if indeed they lied? They could have gained sympathy around the world by showing vulnerability and by feigning that they were a wounded animal they could satisfy the bloodthirsty jackals that enough damage was done. Instead of competing who is better competing who is worse off. There must be a Jewish joke about it.

    I guess that all authoritarian systems even when they have at the tips of their fingers all wisdoms of Chinese sages they rather want to project strength and effectiveness because they play in front of domestic audience who can’t never be shown any weakness. The strength of authoritarian systems comes form strength only while the democratic system can be strong through its weakness.

    • Replies: @Chinaman
  187. Chinaman says:
    @Ron Unz

    To clarify, what dux.ie said was that the A strains from patients in Spain is of the OLDEST genetic age and they are closest to the bat virus. The wastewater sample is not on the GISAID database. What we can say, quite conclusively, is that the virus either originated from Spain or America since the patients had the primordial strains that is closest to the bat virus, that is, if you trust the data. Per dux.ie, the American data ( or the scientists themselves) is so corrupted now that it indicates NEGATIVE mutation rate which confirms your suspicions. Whether the wastewater sample from March is legit or not is not so important anymore but it is *extremely unlikely * that it is a coincidence that Spain patients have the oldest strains and also the earliest wastewater sample!

  188. Chinaman says:
    @Ron Unz

    Never thought I will even entertain the idea. ( not the flu hoaxer idea) and I am actually surprised I am going in that direction of the trolley problem. May be it is because China have the virus under controlled that I am at liberty to consider the alternative as an armchair exercise. First, I do hope we agree that it is likely more people will die in emerging countries ( and also on skidrow) from the economic damage in the next few years than the COVID will caused. It is a double whammy.

    My experience of the pandemic in Hong Kong is completely different from yours and thus my perspective.

    We NEVER had a lockdown in HK and life was 70% normal throughout the pandemic. We wore mask, quarantine the sick, stay at home for awhile….It was all voluntary and although we still have imported cases, we learned how to control the virus without destroying the economy. It is proven that it didn’t require a complete lockdown to get it under control. People just need to be conscientious and disciplined…. What me and others didn’t expect is for the West and rest of the world to completely fuck it up in this manner. That was really the black swan.

    China did the right thing for the Chinese of course and I am very proud of what we have achieved but the PR fallout was disastrous. 80% of the world hates the Chinese now and believe we are responsible for the virus. There are billions of people in the world with a 2 digit IQ who ain’t going to look at the matter scientifically and consider the evidence. ( Especially when you and I can’t agree on anything). I have investments assets in Australia that I am afraid to visit because the feral animals just randomly assault Asians up on the street. ( 400 incidents recorded). I am not necessarily concerned about the physical altercation but why expose myself to these insults and blame.

    I am pretty sure China could have handled the PR and communication in a manner Trump and Pompeo couldn’t take advantage of it.

    When the history books are written, the pandemic will be identified as the trigger of the new cold war…or worst…WW3 where hundreds of millions died. May be it is inevitable anyway and it was going to be happen if it was not the pandemic.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  189. Chinaman says:
    @Ron Unz

    So if the PRC had followed your suggestion and ignored the problem, probably tens of millions of Chinese would have died.

    To be clear, my suggestion is not to “let it rip” or herd immunity. All I am saying we don’t need to lockdown to get the virus under controlled…as it is proven now.

    Hong kong and Singapore have probably the achieve the best compromise between lives and the economy. There are still a dozen cases every day but no one really worries about it anymore. We had 7 cases yesterday but the resturant and streets are full of people. They get traced, quarantined and the rest of us get on with out life.

    It is a kind of a slow herd immunity…at least until a vaccine comes along which I am not optimistic about.

    Taking reasonable policies measures in their extreme is a recipe for disaster as we have seem with eugenics or Mao’s pest eradication program. This is due to second order effects and unintended consequences. Road to Hell is paved with kindness. Lockdowns are one of them…

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  190. Chinaman says:
    @Rdm

    Coronavirus originated in China and it began innocently.

    How? Do you have prove it? Where is the evidence it originated from China?

    I can prove it started from Spain.

    Can you prove it started in China?

    Did you not read a SINGLE comment from dux.ie, articles from Peter Forster ( from cambridge) or the wastewater studies???

    It never cease to amaze me how people can just ignore evidence\reality put front of them that contradict their own beliefs!

  191. Chinaman says:
    @utu

    I have been saying, since March, that Xi and Trump should do a meeting and jointly declare that the virus is a hoax..

    After that:

    Chinese can do their semi-lockdown, quarantine and wear their masks….quitely.

    America and Europe can do their herd immunity or whatever they want.

    To each to his own, everyone is happy. None of this shit would have happened. It is only when the West freaked out and copy what China did that it became a PR disaster.

  192. Ron Unz says:
    @Rdm

    You claimed that Covid-19 was more likely originated in the US and planted in Chinese soil. I found it hard to digest. It’s highly unlikely and extremely impossible to develop a bioweapon that targets only a certain race on Earth.

    Although race-specific bioweapons have been under development in various countries for decades, I’m not sure that anyone has ever succeeded in producing an effective one. And as the entire world now knows, Covid-19 is *obviously* not a Han-specific bioweapon.

    But there really seems pretty strong evidence that it was an American attack against China (and Iran), as my articles and columns have repeatedly suggested. Nothing in your long comment has undercut my arguments.

  193. Ron Unz says:
    @Chinaman

    China did the right thing for the Chinese of course and I am very proud of what we have achieved but the PR fallout was disastrous. 80% of the world hates the Chinese now and believe we are responsible for the virus. There are billions of people in the world with a 2 digit IQ who ain’t going to look at the matter scientifically and consider the evidence….I am pretty sure China could have handled the PR and communication in a manner Trump and Pompeo couldn’t take advantage of it.

    I really tend to doubt that China could have changed the situation by adopting a different PR strategy.

    Countries have strengths and weaknesses, and America’s greatest strength right now is that it heavily dominates the world’s propaganda/media organs. And it can deploy those assets to demonize whomever it likes, especially in the Western countries almost entirely under its influence. That’s the situation China faces.

    The same thing is true domestically. As you probably know, a few months ago a lifelong black criminal who was a drug-dealer happened to overdose and die after he was arrested by the police in Minnesota. These things happen all the time, but the American MSM turned him into a secular saint, and inspired mobs to riot and loot across something like 200 American cities, while tearing down or defacing the monuments to many of our most famous former presidents and other national heroes.

    Meanwhile, it inspired calls to “defund” the police, and various whites who have tried to defend themselves from attacking mobs have been arrested and prosecuted for serious felonies. Individuals who merely called the police because they felt under threat have been purged and even prosecuted. The whole situation is quite reminiscent of Mao’s Cultural Revolution.

    While all this was happening, many trillions of dollars in government aid was given to support the wealthiest speculators on Wall Street, leading our stock market to new heights, and enormously increasing the wealth of our wealthiest.

    The whole domestic situation in America is now totally insane, and almost entirely a product of the total dominance of our domestic MSM. For over 250 years, Washington and Jefferson have been regarded as two of America’s greatest presidents, but both are now being successfully demonized in American society by the MSM. So the fact that the MSM has also successfully demonized China overseas is a pretty minor achievement by comparison.

    • Replies: @Chinaman
  194. Ron Unz says:
    @Chinaman

    To be clear, my suggestion is not to “let it rip” or herd immunity. All I am saying we don’t need to lockdown to get the virus under controlled…as it is proven now.

    I disagree. The lockdown worked very well in China and completely stamped out the virus in just a couple of months. If they’d gone with half-measures, the virus would have certainly spread and become completely endemic, requiring severe health measures to be continued indefinitely.

    Anyway, when the Chinese leaders had to make the decision, they had extremely limited information about the nature of the virus, including its degree of contagiousness and long-term fatality rates. If they’d followed your suggestion and been wrong, many tens of millions might have died and China might have even collapsed. It’s not China’s fault that the West was totally incompetent in its response.

    Hong Kong and Singapore were obviously faced with a different situation since they’re so much more open to travel from the heavily infected West. So lockdowns there probably couldn’t be short and temporary the way they’ve been in China, and long-term masking might indeed be the best approach.

    • Replies: @Chinaman
  195. denk says:
    @Ron Unz

    The American people are generally a friendly, kindly and compassionate people. If they knew one tenth of what their governments get up to around the world and in their dealings with foreign governments and people, there would be an enormous outcry.

    http://krysstal.com/democracy_whyusa.html

    Wish I hadnt believed in that fairy tale. !
    —————————————————

    The demonisation of China didnt occur yesterday, it started the day USA ‘lost its China [sic] to the commies’…seventy years ago.

    Here’r just the biggies,

    1962
    Chinese aggression against India

    1989
    TAM ‘massare of peaceful students’

    2008
    Tibet, massacre of our peaceful monks

    2009
    Xinjiang, massacre of our moslem bro

    2014-
    Police brutalities in HK,

    2020
    POlice brutalities in HK,
    MIllions UIghurs in gulags,
    Chicoms hacking into all our networks,
    Our colleges are crawling with chicom spies,
    The Chinese flu.

    And….China is attacking India, again !

    More than two decades ago I told my self, the yanks sorely need some proper education, so I started this online therapy, free of charge, at great expense to my personal life.
    A fat lot of good it does.

    FF 2020,
    At least 70% of yanks are sinophobes, some polls shows a staggering 90%, from what I gather, its prolly somewhere in between but nearer to the high end.

    its the MSM fault*

    MSM addicts can at least be excused , what do you expect from mushrooms, kept in the dark and fed B.S. all day long,.? [John PIlger]

    BUt…
    What about the army of trolls flooding MOA, UNZ, SAKER…. ?
    They cant plead ignorance !

    Yet they keep repeating the lies about TAM, TIBET, XINJIANG , HK, HACKERS, SPIES , CHINESE THREAT, VIRUS ad nauseam.

    What wrong with these people ?

    PCR says those who still believes in official stories about anything are either very stupid or insane.
    BUt these people are very sober, perhaps they’r simply hardcore sinophobes who wouldnt let facts get in the way ?

    Ignorance aint crime.
    Pathological liars are another matter altogether.

    PS
    If I take your fig of 60% yanks being whites, that makes 49/60 =at least 82% of whites are sinophobes !

    BTW

    • Replies: @vot tak
    , @Ron Unz
    , @d dan
    , @FB
  196. Chinaman says:
    @Ron Unz

    The whole domestic situation in America is now totally insane, and almost entirely a product of the total dominance of our domestic MSM. For over 250 years, Washington and Jefferson have been regarded as two of America’s greatest presidents, but both are now being successfully demonized in American society by the MSM.

    This is why your site is so important and it is almost like Zion in the Matrix movies! What I resent the most are the lies, hypocrisy and politically correctness in the MSM and it force people to self-censor so as to fall in line. I really allow freedom of speech here. ( I am banned from making comments onSCMP !) I really appreciate it and I am going to make a donation after this! Keep up the good work.

    Now, let me ask you this.

    Do you see a civil war after the elections? We have the 1918 pandemic, 1930s great depression, 1980s Cold war, 1960s civil rights movement (and 2000 tech bubble!) all happening in the same year. The conditions seems ripe for a revolution…or do you think we are already at the height of madness and things will calm down a bit after the election? It have been 8 years since I set foot in the US so I really have no idea how bad things are now. What would a civil war look like in these days? California and confederate states all seceding ?

    Thanks.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  197. Chinaman says:
    @Ron Unz

    Yes. CCP reacted like it is a bioattack.

    What we know now, from the experience of Hong Kong is that masks, basic hygiene and some social distancing alone can stop the transmission effectively. As you know, HK have one of the the highest population density in world. 2 million people on 70km square island. If we didn’t need to lockdown completely, no other place need to do so (if its citizens are disciplined enough).

    This is all in hindsight of course so I agree that the best course of action at that point would be a lockdown even if it is an overkill.

  198. vot tak says:
    @denk

    Actually most americans are literally “monkey see, monkey do” types. If they are fed bs on a regular basis by those they bamboozled themselves to trust as reliable “authorities”, they ape that bs as their own. They internalize it, they don’t question it and become rote repeaters of it. The american is probably the most susceptible critter alive to propaganda manipulation ever bred. Especially the ones who identify themselves as “white”.

    • Replies: @denk
  199. vot tak says:

    Following up my previous comment:

    Trump: ‘Greatest Weapons Ever Produced’ Make US the ‘Envy of Russia, China & N Korea’

    https://sputniknews.com/us/202010181080810505-trump-greatest-weapons-ever-produced-make-us-the-envy-of-russia-china–n-korea/

    “While addressing his audience, Trump said that the US has “the greatest weapons ever produced by a single country”, including hypersonic missiles, which he touted as “super-duper missiles”, as well as rockets, ships, tanks, etc.

    “When I took over, our military – and you know it, the military people – it was totally depleted. We now have the greatest, we are the envy of Russia, and China, and North Korea, and every country in the world – there’s nobody that has anything near our weaponry”, Trump declared.

    Earlier this month, Trump also declared during a rally in Florida that the US has hypersonic missiles, adding that “we didn’t have them because other countries were stealing our plans from the Obama administration”.

    Probably at least half of americans will believe this nonsense (I’m likely being too kind here, probably a majority would).

    • Replies: @Chinaman
  200. Ron Unz says:
    @denk

    More than two decades ago I told my self, the yanks sorely need some proper education, so I started this online therapy, free of charge, at great expense to my personal life.
    A fat lot of good it does.

    Well, I hate to be extremely unkind, but I think your comments do a very poor job of achieving your goals and may even be rather counter-productive.

    You clearly have almost no understanding of American society, and making remarks about it destroys your credibility on other matters. You choose to rant and rave using your own peculiar personal acronyms and jargon (e.g. “Fukus” and “[[[“), and make all sorts of wild accusations without any evidence or proof.

    Basically, you come across as an eccentric and ignorant foreign lunatic, very unlikely to convince anyone about anything. You’re just the mirror-image of many of the American lunatics who also comment on this website.

    If you reduced your commenting by 95% but provided solid comments in good English, you’d be much more successful.

    • Replies: @denk
  201. Ron Unz says:
    @Chinaman

    This is why your site is so important and it is almost like Zion in the Matrix movies!

    Thanks for the very kind words.

    Do you see a civil war after the elections? We have the 1918 pandemic, 1930s great depression, 1980s Cold war, 1960s civil rights movement (and 2000 tech bubble!) all happening in the same year. The conditions seems ripe for a revolution

    Hard to say, though I do think the likelihood of a “violently disputed election” is greater than it has been in several generations. But you’ve certainly listed some of the simultaneous crisis-factors.

    If the vote is close in the key large states, one major problem is that Democrats are much more likely to cast votes by mail than Republicans:

    https://www.unz.com/anepigone/trumps-election-night-triumph-becomes-a-nightmare/

    Since mailed ballots are counted much more slowly, it’s quite possible that on Election Night, Trump has a large lead in enough big states to look like an (unexpected) winner. So he’ll declare himself reelected to the cheers of all his zealous supporters.

    But then as the mailed ballots are counted over the next few days, his lead disappears and the Democrats claim that Biden won. Naturally, Trump and all the Trumpists will cry “Fraud!” Since the Trumpists and the anti-Trumpists hate each other so much and have such strong feelings, there would be serious risks that the governmental dispute would end in violence:

    https://www.unz.com/article/yes-we-are-headed-for-violent-civil-war/

    Anyway, I’m just glad I live in California, where things are peaceful and quiet…

    • Thanks: Chinaman
  202. Chinaman says:
    @vot tak

    China’s hypersonic missiles…19x speed of sound…which are dubbed “aircraft carrier killers” are the most sophisticated in the world now.

    Americans really needs to wake up to the reality that it cannot win in an conventional war against China in the SCS…not because China is stronger but it is a simply a logistical nightmare to mobilised the necessary forces to do a 2nd or 3rd round of battles.

    We would be at war already if American thought it could win in the SCS.

    • LOL: utu
  203. denk says:
    @Ron Unz

    unkind

    Feel free to shoot.
    I like straight talk and never mince words.
    Too insolent even for MOA, UNZ, SAKER standard.

    iRONIcally, I seem to be more appreciated in MSM, getting hundreds of upvotes at one time, before GUardian decided to shut down comment is free.

    all sorts of wild accusations without any evidence or proof.

    B,S. !

    You mean like this…?
    https://www.unz.com/article/anti-chinese-racism-sets-stage-for-new-mccarthyism/#comment-4232235

    95%

    Good advice.

    NOt being my fan, you fail to notice that I’ve been doing this progressively….no point slogging
    at an exercise of futility, like banging
    you head at a brick wall.

    But wont be quitting for the moment,
    …subject to your hospitality of course.

    • Thanks: Chinaman
  204. denk says:
    @vot tak

    oF Course they have been fed B.S. all year round,.

    But why oh why do they keep sucking it up with relish ?
    Iraq, kosovo, libya, Syria, TAM, Tibet, Xinjiang, HK, hackers, spies, Chinese threat…..

    Fool me once, shame on you…

    Whatever happens to HIQ whites, ?

  205. d dan says:
    @denk

    “More than two decades ago I told my self, the yanks sorely need some proper education, so I started this online therapy, free of charge, at great expense to my personal life.
    A fat lot of good it does.”

    I want to let you know there are people who appreciate your efforts and time. I certainly want to thank you for your persistence. It is those racists’ lose when they don’t read or understand your comments.

    • Replies: @denk
  206. denk says:
    @d dan

    Glad to hear that.
    —————————-
    White nationalists only wanna preserve their identity, they resent WMM of any hue.
    They are not necessarily sinophobic.

    OTOH,
    White trash supremacists hate Chinese just for the sake of it.

    The best we can do is to wean WN away from their hatred .
    WTS are in-salvageable, their mind are closed to facts and reasoning, they spend their time seeking out any hearsay , gossips to justify their sinophobia.

    [[[five liars]]] seem to have more than their fair share of this species.

    For example, during the indo/sino war 1962, PLA captured thousands of Indian jawans. The Chinese washed them, treated their wounds, sent them back to India….with all their rifles cleaned and oiled..

    Some gringos journos flew in all the way from US to interview these released POWs, they wanted something juicy to make the Chinese looked bad, all they got was ‘stories about Chinese magnanimity !
    They left empty handed,…and rather miffed.

    Something contemporary.
    Years ago I was very high octane, with accounts on many MSM, right wing sites.
    I was thinking no point preaching to the choirs at Antiwar.com, ICH, Guardian [its still quite ok back then], gotta go into the lions dens to kick some ass in order to educate the gringos, or Brits, for that matter, I actually managed to convert a few at the Guardian, who thanked me for their enlightenment. !

    There was one wingnut site, where anglos and their Indian cousins were gleefully feeding each other cow dungs. I gate crashed their fest and shower them with the brutal truths.
    What happened next was the gringos deleted my account, called me ‘TAM butcher’.
    They thanked their Indian cousins,
    ‘We learn something new every day’
    LOL

    When someone has been fed B.S. since birth, they will curse you for feeding them honey, it make them puke.

    We see lots of this types in alternate media these days.
    Some are pros, paid to do a job.
    But most are simply WTS , they are here to troll , not to learn.

    When I do response, its bcos their lies are too foul to ignore, but mostly I tried to educate those audiences whose sinophobia are due to ignorance, hopefully still salvageable.

    if twenty hears ago you felt like preaching to the choir at ICH etc, these days even alternate media
    do not feel like home ground any more, its like you are doing pitch battle in enemy territory !

    So its down hill all the way bro,
    Enjoy yourself while it still last,.
    Look at it this way…
    At least we can practice our English 😉

    • Replies: @d dan
  207. d dan says:
    @denk

    “if twenty hears ago you felt like preaching to the choir at ICH etc, these days even alternate media
    do not feel like home ground any more, its like you are doing pitch battle in enemy territory !”

    Yes, we don’t seek financial rewards, just better future for our children. Hopefully the hard power of China would translate into more soft power – it would be the main source of stability in the world.

  208. FB says: • Website
    @denk

    @Ron Unz

    The American people are generally a friendly, kindly and compassionate people…

    Hmm, having trouble finding that particular snippet from Mr Unz…perhaps he thought better of this rather incredible statement and decided to remove it…

    But yeah, other than the fact that a lot of Americans like to hate on ‘niggers’ [not on this site thank goodness, 😂], ‘sand niggers’, Jews [again, thankfully not on this site],’chinks’, Mexicans, Russians, etc etc…they really are the salt of the earth…😂 😂 😂

    Keep it up Denk…

    • LOL: Jazman
    • Replies: @denk
  209. denk says:
    @FB

    Thanks

    That quote is taken from here…..
    http://krysstal.com/democracy_whyusa.html

    keep it up

    Couldnt quit even if I wanted to…..
    No way am I going to let pass such wicked lies.
    Anglos and their Indian cousins feeding each other cow dung again.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11894701/chinese-troops-mutilated-indian-soldiers-war

    • Thanks: FB
    • Replies: @anon
  210. anon[544] • Disclaimer says:
    @showmethereal

    Tsai was against gay marriage, and then for it, and then against it. She flip-flopped it a few times.

    Who knows what Tsai sexual orientation is? There was an old video in which she was asked if she considered herself Chinese, her answer was “depending on what government position I am holding”. Maybe her sexual orientation is fluid as well. She never directly said what she is. Never married, no kids, never had a boyfriend or girlfriend.

    Years ago Tsai led the protests against the import of U.S. pork that was raised on ractopamine. she was passionate in her speeches, calling for the resignation of anyone in parliament who dared to allow the import. She was telling the public how the ractopamine pork was poison and would ruin the health of Taiwanese and especially the children.

    Now that she is in her 2nd term. She bypassed the parliament and lifted the ban, and her only explanation is that “Time and Space have changed”.

    In all her political life, she had been stressing the importance of free speech, different voices, and political views. Now her administration is trying to cancel the license of a TV news station that has been critical of her and her party.

    • Agree: Showmethereal
    • Replies: @Showmethereal
  211. @Ron Unz

    Comparison between Russia and Germany. From most indications Germany has a hugher quality of life. But I wonder why since the end of the Soviet Union we don’t see more impactful Russian companies on the global stage. Even back in the days of the Kaiser Germany was known for high quality production. Russia though – while great in math and science – hasn’t seemed to translate that… I wonder if its that old adage of the “curse of natural resources”…??

    But yeah India – Indonesia – Brazil. Well India and Indonesia will keep growing just by the size of their populations. But because their populations are growing still – I doubt we will see that material improvement of the overall quality of life. We shall see.
    Brazil???? Sadly – she remains a basket case… So yeah you are probably right. I like the Brazilian people (i mean many people – like myself – adopts Brazil’s national side as their “second team” to cheer for in football) – but I dont have much faith in the leadership.

  212. anon[544] • Disclaimer says:
    @denk

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11894701/chinese-troops-mutilated-indian-soldiers-war

    That is just par for the course. There is so much stuff like this out there.

    So far I’ve heard on XingJiang

    1) concentration camps
    2) force Uighurs women to sleep with Han
    3) forced labor
    4) forced abortion
    5) forced sterilization
    6) forcefully shave Uighurs women’s hair to sell the hair to the US
    7) genocide
    8) sell Uighurs slaves on TaoBao . ( From Carl Zha vs Lyman Stone China Threat Debate. Lyman Stone claimed one could order Uighurs slaves from Taobao. Carl Zha asked him to show the audience how to order one. Lyman said he couldn’t do it because his keyboard couldn’t type Chinese characters)

    • Replies: @denk
  213. @anon

    Yeah Tsai is a perfect definition of a populist politician. But she has been so uneffective. Elections are an “amazing”. She had the lowest approval ratings any politician could imagine… And ends up winning the election.
    But yeah forcing through gay marriage was against the will of the people… Freedom??? Makes on scratch the head.

  214. denk says:
    @anon

    After several decades on the beat, I can sniff out a FF from three miles away.

    This kind of beastly behaviour are par for the course indeed.. to the three amigos, [[[five liars]]] , India ,their model democracy and Indonesia, their model moslem country

    So its a classic case of bandits crying robbery.

    When the mofo concocted such nonsense they most likely were drawing from their own rich experience.

    The big question is….how they managed to get away with their big lies, again and again ?
    From the sinking of Maine, the GUlf of Tonkin, the Iraq baby incubator, the Racak ‘massacre’, the TAM ‘MASSACRE’ ….Gadaffi’s viagra driven army, Saddam, Saddat gassed their own people, …….right up to the current Russia gate, evil peril, genocide in Xinjiang, hackers, spies, Chinese virus

    Fool me once, shame on you,
    Fool me hundreds of times……..?

    You gotta to wonder whats wrong with this fairy tale about HIQ white guy ?

    Exhibit A
    https://www.unz.com/article/anti-chinese-racism-sets-stage-for-new-mccarthyism/#comment-4236158

    Exhibit B
    https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2020/03/23/the-coming-war-on-china%e2%80%8a-%e2%80%8awatch-john-pilgers-powerfully-relevant-documentary/#comments

    Read the comments.

    So much for HIQ white guys,
    heheheheh

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