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The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan Back with a Bang
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Taliban fighters stand guard along a roadside near the Zanbaq Square in Kabul on August 16, 2021, after a stunningly swift end to Afghanistan’s 20-year war, as thousands of people mobbed the city’s airport trying to flee the group’s feared hardline brand of Islamist rule. Photo: AFP / Wakil Kohsar
Taliban fighters stand guard along a roadside near the Zanbaq Square in Kabul on August 16, 2021, after a stunningly swift end to Afghanistan’s 20-year war, as thousands of people mobbed the city’s airport trying to flee the group’s feared hardline brand of Islamist rule. Photo: AFP / Wakil Kohsar

Wait until the war is over
And we’re both a little older
The unknown soldier
Breakfast where the news is read
Television children fed
Unborn living, living, dead
Bullet strikes the helmet’s head
And it’s all over
For the unknown soldier

The Doors, “The Unknown Soldier”

In the end, the Saigon moment happened faster than any Western intel “expert” expected. This is one for the annals: four frantic days that wrapped up the most astonishing guerrilla blitzkrieg of recent times. Afghan-style: lots of persuasion, lots of tribal deals, zero columns of tanks, minimal loss of blood.

August 12 set the scene, with the nearly simultaneous capture of Ghazni, Kandahar and Herat. On August 13, the Taliban were only 50 kilometers from Kabul. August 14 started with the siege of Maidan Shahr, the gateway to Kabul.

Ismail Khan, the legendary elder Lion of Herat, struck a self-preservation deal and was sent by the Taliban as a top-flight messenger to Kabul: President Ashraf Ghani should step out, or else.

Still on Saturday, the Taliban took Jalalabad – and isolated Kabul from the east, all the way to the Afgan-Pakistan border in Torkham, gateway to the Khyber Pass. By Saturday night, Marshal Dostum was fleeing with a bunch of military to Uzbekistan via the Friendship Bridge in Termez; only a few were allowed in. The Taliban duly took over Dostum’s Tony Montana-style palace.

By early morning on August 15, all that was left for the Kabul administration was the Panjshir valley – high in the mountains, a naturally protected fortress – and scattered Hazaras: there’s nothing there in those beautiful central lands, except Bamiyan.

Exactly 20 years ago, I was in Bazarak getting ready to interview the Lion of the Panjshir, commander Masoud, who was preparing a counter-offensive against … the Taliban. History repeating, with a twist. This time I was sent visual proof that the Taliban – following the classic guerrilla sleeping cell playbook – were already in the Panjshir.

And then mid-morning on Sunday brought the stunning visual re-enactment of the Saigon moment, for all the world to see: a Chinook helicopter hovering over the roof of the American embassy in Kabul.

A US military helicopter flying above the US embassy in Kabul on August 15, 2021. Photo: AFP / Wakil Kohsar
A US military helicopter flying above the US embassy in Kabul on August 15, 2021. Photo: AFP / Wakil Kohsar

‘The war is over’

Still on Sunday, Taliban spokesman Mohammad Naeem proclaimed: “The war is over in Afghanistan,” adding that the shape of the new government would soon be announced.

Facts on the ground are way more convoluted. Feverish negotiations have been going on since Sunday afternoon. The Taliban were ready to announce the official proclamation of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan in its 2.0 version (1.0 was from 1996 to 2001). The official announcement would be made inside the presidential palace.

Yet what’s left of Team Ghani was refusing to transfer power to a coordinating council that will de facto set up the transition. What the Taliban want is a seamless transition: they are now the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan. Case closed.

By Monday, a sign of compromise came from Taliban spokesman Suhail Shaheen. The new government will include non-Taliban officials. He was referring to an upcoming “transition administration,” most probably co-directed by Taliban political leader Mullah Baradar and Ali Ahmad Jalali, a former minister of internal affairs who was also, in the past, an employee of Voice of America.

In the end, there was no Battle for Kabul. Thousands of Taliban were already inside Kabul – once again the classic sleeper-cell playbook. The bulk of their forces remained in the outskirts. An official Taliban proclamation ordered them not to enter the city, which should be captured without a fight, to prevent civilian casualties.

The Taliban did advance from the west, but “advancing,” in context, meant connecting to the sleeper cells in Kabul, which by then were fully active. Tactically, Kabul was encircled in an “anaconda” move, as defined by a Taliban commander: squeezed from north, south and west and, with the capture of Jalalabad, cut off from the east.

At some point last week, high-level intel must have whispered to the Taliban command that the Americans would be coming to “evacuate.” It could have been Pakistan intelligence, even Turkish intelligence, with Erdogan playing his characteristic NATO double game.

The American rescue cavalry not only came late, but was caught in a bind as they could not possibly bomb their own assets inside Kabul. The horrible timing was compounded when the Bagram military base – the NATO Valhalla in Afghanistan for nearly 20 years – was finally captured by the Taliban.

That led the US and NATO to literally beg the Taliban to let them evacuate everything in sight from Kabul – by air, in haste, at the Taliban’s mercy. A geopolitical development that evokes suspension of disbelief.

Ghani versus Baradar

Ghani’s hasty escape is the stuff of “a tale told by an idiot, signifying nothing” – without the Shakespearean pathos. The heart of the whole matter was a last-minute meeting on Sunday morning between former President Hamid Karzai and Ghani’s perennial rival Abdullah Abdullah.

They discussed in detail who they were going to send to negotiate with the Taliban – who by then not only were fully prepared for a possible battle for Kabul, but had announced their immovable red line weeks ago – they want the end of the current NATO government.

Ghani finally saw the writing on the wall and disappeared from the presidential palace without even addressing the potential negotiators. With his wife, chief of staff and national security adviser, he escaped to Tashkent, the Uzbek capital. A few hours later, the Taliban entered the presidential palace, the stunning images duly captured.

A screengrab from a video showing Taliban leader Mullah Baradar Akhund, front, center, with his fellow insurgents, in Kabul on August 15. Born in 1968, Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar, also called Mullah Baradar Akhund, is the co-founder of the Taliban in Afghanistan. He was the deputy of Mullah Mohammed Omar. Photo: AFP / Taliban / EyePress News
A screengrab from a video showing Taliban leader Mullah Baradar Akhund, front, center, with his fellow insurgents, in Kabul on August 15. Born in 1968, Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar, also called Mullah Baradar Akhund, is the co-founder of the Taliban in Afghanistan. He was the deputy of Mullah Mohammed Omar. Photo: AFP / Taliban / EyePress News

Commenting on Ghani’s escape, Abdullah Abdullah did not mince his words: “God will hold him accountable.” Ghani, an anthropologist with a doctorate from Columbia, is one of those classic cases of Global South exiles to the West who “forget” everything that matters about their original lands.

Ghani is a Pashtun who acted like an arrogant New Yorker. Or worse, an entitled Pashtun, as he was often demonizing the Taliban, who are overwhelmingly Pashtun, not to mention Tajiks, Uzbeks and Hazaras, including their tribal elders.

It’s as if Ghani and his Westernized team had never learned from a top source such as the late, great Norwegian social anthropologist Fredrik Barth (check out a sample of his Pashtun studies here).

Geopolitically, what matters now is how the Taliban have written a whole new script, showing the lands of Islam, as well as the Global South, how to defeat the self-referential, seemingly invincible US/NATO empire.

ORDER IT NOW

The Taliban did it with Islamic faith, infinite patience and force of will fueling roughly 78,000 fighters – 60,000 of them active – many with minimal military training, no backing of any state – unlike Vietnam, which had China and the USSR – no hundreds of billions of dollars from NATO, no trained army, no air force and no state-of-the-art technology.

They relied only on Kalashnikovs, rocket-propelled grenades and Toyota pick-ups – before they captured American hardware these past few days, including drones and helicopters.

Taliban leader Mullah Baradar has been extremely cautious. On Monday he said: “It is too early to say how we will take over governance.” First of all, the Taliban wants “to see foreign forces leave before restructuring begins.”

Abdul Ghani Baradar is a very interesting character. He was born and raised in Kandahar. That’s where the Taliban started in 1994, seizing the city almost without a fight and then, equipped with tanks, heavy weapons and a lot of cash to bribe local commanders, capturing Kabul nearly 25 years ago, on September 27, 1996.

Earlier, Mullah Baradar fought in the 1980s jihad against the USSR, and maybe – not confirmed – side-by-side with Mullah Omar, with whom he co-founded the Taliban.

After the American bombing and occupation post-9/11, Mullah Baradar and a small group of Taliban sent a proposal to then-President Hamid Karzai on a potential deal that would allow the Taliban to recognize the new regime. Karzai, under Washington pressure, rejected it.

Baradar was actually arrested in Pakistan in 2010 – and kept in custody. Believe it or not, American intervention led to his freedom in 2018. He then relocated to Qatar. And that’s where he was appointed head of the Taliban’s political office and oversaw the signing last year of the American withdrawal deal.

Baradar will be the new ruler in Kabul – but it’s important to note he’s under the authority of the Taliban Supreme Leader since 2016, Haibatullah Akhundzada. It’s the Supreme Leader – actually a spiritual guide – who will be lording over the new incarnation of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan.

Mullah Haibatullah Akhundzada posing for a photograph at an undisclosed location in 2016. Photo: AFP / Afghan Taliban
Mullah Haibatullah Akhundzada posing for a photograph at an undisclosed location in 2016. Photo: AFP / Afghan Taliban

Beware of a peasant guerrilla army

The collapse of the Afghan National Army (ANA) was inevitable. They were “educated” the American military way: massive technology, massive airpower, next to zero local ground intel.

The Taliban is all about deals with tribal elders and extended family connections – and a peasant guerrilla approach, parallel to the communists in Vietnam. They were biding their time for years, just building connections – and those sleeper cells.

Afghan troops who had not received a salary for months were paid not to fight them. And the fact they did not attack American troops since February 2020 earned them a lot of extra respect: a matter of honor, essential in the Pashtunwali code.

It’s impossible to understand the Taliban – and most of all, the Pashtun universe – without understanding Pashtunwali. As well as the concepts of honor, hospitality and inevitable revenge for any wrongdoing, the concept of freedom implies no Pashtun is inclined to be ordered by a central state authority – in this case, Kabul. And no way will they ever surrender their guns.

In a nutshell, that’s the “secret” of the lightning-fast blitzkrieg with minimal loss of blood, inbuilt in the overarching geopolitical earthquake. After Vietnam, this is the second Global South protagonist showing the whole world how an empire can be defeated by a peasant guerrilla army.

And all that accomplished with a budget that may not exceed \$1.5 billion a year – coming from local taxes, profits from opium exports (no internal distribution allowed) and real estate speculation. In vast swaths of Afghanistan, the Taliban were already, de facto, running local security, local courts and even food distribution.

Taliban 2021 is an entirely different animal compared with Taliban 2001. Not only are they battle-hardened, they had plenty of time to perfect their diplomatic skills, which were recently more than visible in Doha and in high-level visits to Tehran, Moscow and Tianjin.

They know very well that any connection with al-Qaeda remnants, ISIS/Daesh, ISIS-Khorasan and ETIM is counter-productive – as their Shanghai Cooperation Organization interlocutors made very clear.

Internal unity, anyway, will be extremely hard to achieve. The Afghan tribal maze is a jigsaw puzzle, nearly impossible to crack. What the Taliban may realistically achieve is a loose confederation of tribes and ethnic groups under a Taliban emir, coupled with very careful management of social relations.

Initial impressions point to increased maturity. The Taliban are granting amnesty to employees of the NATO occupation and won’t interfere with businesses activities. There will be no revenge campaign. Kabul is back in business. There is allegedly no mass hysteria in the capital: that’s been the exclusive domain of Anglo-American mainstream media. The Russian and Chinese embassies remain open for business.

Zamir Kabulov, the Kremlin special representative for Afghanistan, has confirmed that the situation in Kabul, surprisingly, is “absolutely calm” – even as he reiterated: “We are not in a rush as far as recognition [of the Taliban] is concerned. We will wait and watch how the regime will behave.”

The New Axis of Evil

Tony Blinken may blabber that “we were in Afghanistan for one overriding purpose – to deal with the folks who attacked us on 9/11.”

US Secretary of State Antony Blinken. Photo: AFP / Patrick Semansky
US Secretary of State Antony Blinken. Photo: AFP / Patrick Semansky

Every serious analyst knows that the “overriding” geopolitical purpose of the bombing and occupation of Afghanistan nearly 20 years ago was to establish an essential Empire of Bases foothold in the strategic intersection of Central and South Asia, subsequently coupled with occupying Iraq in Southwest Asia.

Now the “loss” of Afghanistan should be interpreted as a repositioning. It fits the new geopolitical configuration, where the Pentagon’s top mission is not the “war on terror” anymore, but to simultaneously try to isolate Russia and harass China by all means on the expansion of the New Silk Roads.

Occupying smaller nations has ceased to be a priority. The Empire of Chaos can always foment chaos – and supervise assorted bombing raids – from its CENTCOM base in Qatar.

Iran is about to join the Shanghai Cooperation Organization as a full member – another game-changer. Even before resetting the Islamic Emirate, the Taliban have carefully cultivated good relations with key Eurasia players – Russia, China, Pakistan, Iran and the Central Asian ‘stans. The ‘stans are under full Russian protection. Beijing is already planning hefty rare earth business with the Taliban.

ORDER IT NOW

On the Atlanticist front, the spectacle of non-stop self-recrimination will consume the Beltway for ages. Two decades, \$2 trillion, a forever war debacle of chaos, death and destruction, a still shattered Afghanistan, an exit literally in the dead of night – for what? The only “winners” have been the Lords of the Weapons Racket.

Yet every American plotline needs a fall guy. NATO has just been cosmically humiliated in the graveyard of empires by a bunch of goat herders – and not by close encounters with Mr Khinzal. What’s left? Propaganda.

So meet the new fall guy: the New Axis of Evil. The axis is Taliban-Pakistan-China. The New Great Game in Eurasia has just been reloaded.

(Republished from Asia Times by permission of author or representative)
 
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  1. SafeNow says:

    “Internal unity, anyway, will be extremely hard to achieve. The Afghan tribal maze is a jigsaw puzzle, nearly impossible to crack.”

    A jigsaw puzzle or maze is static. Isn’t the tribal situation ever-changing? If so, I can help. I have a list of similes and metaphors that I keep in my shoe so it’s safe. Let’s see. How about: “…like trying to put socks on an octopus.”

    But seriously, this is a helpful essay. I understand how to think about this, geopolitically, a lot better. Thanks.

  2. the New Axis of Evil. The axis is Taliban-Pakistan-China. The New Great Game in Eurasia has just been reloaded.

    Unfortunately for the aptly-named Empire of Chaos, nobody with more than a few brain synapses still firing now believes a word they say.

    We are looking to the fall of this Empire asap.

    It’s long overdue.

  3. Mark Milley, Lloyd Austin , Joe Biden, Tony Fauci, Andy Cuomo, Nancy Pelosi, John Kerry and most of the Pentagon, Supreme Court, CIA and FBI are devout Catholics – let us not despair – we are standing on a rock – we may still draw on the Treasury of Merit that Subsists within the bank of Rome, Argentina and Auschwitz.

    When Armin Laschet replaces Angela Merkel later this year 6 out of 7 leaders of the G7 will be Catholic – the Final Solution draws near – our salvation is at hand !!

  4. Seven months after American patriots stormed the U.S. Capitol on January 6th, the Taliban are putting their feet up on the desk of the puppet president of Afghanistan.

    If the Pashtuns were inspired by the images of the Capitol on January 6th, then we should be inspired by them taking back Kabul.

    The future of America is a Western version of the Pashtunwali. An honor code based on tribe and customs, blood and values.

    A different people, a world away, but we have more in common with them than we do with the money cult running Washington DC.

  5. Wokechoke says:

    The real humiliation is the way the Taliban won’t execute and pillage the capital. They’ve grown up. The statement by the top Taliban Bod shows he understands the game. The neocons are going to look dumb.

  6. Anon62 says:

    Internal unity, anyway, will be extremely hard to achieve. The Afghan tribal maze is a jigsaw puzzle, nearly impossible to crack.

    Here the Taliban must give credit to Joe Biden and the 20 year US military presence in the country. It took the military might of the global hegemon to unify a tribal nation of goatherders riven with internecine conflicts.

    • Replies: @Donald A Thomson
    , @Anon62
  7. Notsofast says:

    according to the russian embassy ghani showed up at the airport with 4 cars filled with cash but couldn’t fit it all in the helicopter and had to leave some on the tarmac, poor fellow.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
  8. Wokechoke says:
    @Notsofast

    That was the US puppet. Embezzling the poor afghans.

    • Agree: GomezAdddams
    • Replies: @Miro23
    , @GomezAdddams
  9. Stan says:
    @Dodge City Pete

    No Catholic who endorses abortion is a devout Catholic.

  10. “Afghan-style: lots of persuasion, lots of tribal deals, zero columns of tanks, minimal loss of blood.”

    Sure, that might be the way to win a war with speed and efficiency, but where’s the profit for the MIC in that?

    Introduce multi-billion dollar “weapons systems” and then when they become “obsolete” in couple years, repeat.

    As “Engine” Charlie Wilson (the GM president who brought “planned obsolescence to the military) said, “What’s good for GM is good for America.”

    • LOL: Ann Nonny Mouse
  11. @Anon62

    Yes. It was the US war of aggression that unified the tribes. Now, the NATO war against Afghanistan appears to be over and unity will be threatened. Hopefully, Afghan leaders will manage with internal diplomacy as well as many countries manage with external diplomacy. It’s usually been how Afghans manage. [email protected]

    • Replies: @Marshal Marlow
  12. El Dato says:
    @Dodge City Pete

    Mark Milley, Lloyd Austin , Joe Biden, Tony Fauci, Andy Cuomo, Nancy Pelosi, John Kerry and most of the Pentagon, Supreme Court, CIA and FBI are devout Catholics

    Yes we know – Shabbos Goy are bad!

    None of the people in the above list are of any importance whatsoever.

    Real players fly a white-and-baby-blue flag.

    • Agree: Che Guava
    • Replies: @c matt
    , @Angharad
  13. El Dato says:
    @beavertales

    The future of America is a Western version of the Pashtunwali. An honor code based on tribe and customs, blood and values.

    I would not like that. It would be like Southern Italy, only worse. You can’t built much structure on neverending vendettas and are of course open to foreign influence.

    Afghanistan’s insurgency “works” because they have radical Islam as “clan glue”, but who wants to live by radical Islam, a device engineered to keep Arab raiders in the same band?

    • Agree: Unit472, frontier
    • Replies: @frontier
  14. TKK says:

    Geopolitically, what matters now is how the Taliban have written a whole new script, showing the lands of Islam, as well as the Global South, how to defeat the self-referential, seemingly invincible US/NATO empire.

    Did IQs suddenly drop globally?

    The Taliban did not defeat the US/NATO empire. The US empire backed out. Did a cost/benefit analysis and left. NATO had to follow suit.

    When the American Military was in Afghanistan, the Taliban were on their knees. Many were fighting for “ISIS” or “Al Queda”- different flavors of the same Islamic Caliphate. There is no discernible different in these primitive, barbaric terrorists.

    Only as each US/ Afghani base was closed did the Taliban slowly start asserting dominance over each district. Filled the power vacuum. Obama began scaling back Afghani involvement immediately and also implemented strict “woke” rules of engagement- kill shots needs 5 levels of approval.

    It is a peculiar American tragicomedy , that the white working class is so beat down, disenfranchised and disgusted with our ruling class/elites that such a repellent movement as the Taliban would be idolized. The admiration I am seeing on Unz for the Taliban is solid evidence that our populace has been gaslighted into mean and hopeless insanity.

    Remember: the end game for the Woke Machinations of the Left is the Taliban. Agree with my beliefs or I will kill you.

  15. Unit472 says:

    Taliban riding high at the moment but their support maybe a mile wide and an inch deep. GDP is going to collapse now since it was mainly composed of foreign government and NGO assistance. Then there is the effect of that world war one tune How you gonna keep them down on the farm after they’ve seen Gay Paree!

    6th Century religious rule does not fill the gas tanks of motorcycles or imported automobiles. Heroin exports aren’t competitive in a world full of fentanyl.

    Russia and Chine might be diplomatically friendly but they will keep a wary eye on Islamic extremism and Afghanistan has little to offer their economies. The place is dirt poor, has no mineral wealth that cannot be found elsewhere and a subhuman population.

    • Replies: @BDS Always
    , @Eric Novak
    , @Anon
  16. gatobart says:

    Karl Marx said it best:

    History tends to repeat itself, first as tragedy, then as farce.

    Saigon was the tragedy. Kabul is the farce.

    • Thanks: beavertales
  17. RobinG says:
    @Wokechoke

    Yes, so far so good. Great, in fact.

  18. TG says:

    Afghanistan is a third-world hell-hole. The people breed like rodents, the consume all resources, they prevent any progress, they wallow in poverty and misery. It simply does not matter who runs the place, Islamist or democratic or communist it simply does not matter.

    And now they will all be invited to come to the Untied States – not just the perhaps few hundred saps that actually helped the United States, but basically everyone, because the rich want cheap labor.

    9/11 happened because we allowed crazed Islamic jihadists from Pakistan and Saudi Arabia to come here. Many of them were illegal immigrants – if we had enforced the laws, 9/11 could never have happened, but hey, the rich want cheap labor so the laws are not enforced.

    And now we are going to let millions of Afghanis fleeing the poverty and violence that inevitably comes with breeding like rodents into our country, no questions asked. What could go wrong?

    The whole war was a joke from day one. The real enemies were Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, but we couldn’t go after them (remember how after 9/11 the Saudis all got a free pass to fly out of the country no questions asked?). The whole time the Taliban were being supported by the Pakistanis – who were being subsidized by us – but we couldn’t say anything because that would not be ‘constructive’. And Donald Trump saying that this was folly was ‘racist’ and ‘destroying our democracy.’ Words fail.

    • Agree: notbe
    • LOL: the grand wazoo
    • Troll: Alfred
    • Replies: @ariadna
    , @RC
    , @Alfred
    , @TomTom
  19. Anon[243] • Disclaimer says:

    Biden = Andropov

    • Agree: Ray Caruso
  20. The Indian propaganda channel WION, owned by one of Modi’s fellow RSS fascists, is blabbering about a New Axis Of Evil of China, Pakistan, Iran and (Taliban) Afghanistan.

  21. @TKK

    I agree. If someone believes that the USAF wouldn’t have carpet-bombed the Talibans with complete disregard of the collateral damage, if they’ve chosen to do so, is dellusional.

    There are two reason why the Talibans moved so quickly:
    1) The were allowed to do so.
    2) The americans decided to pull out quickly for some reason.

    The second reason is more interesting, since the americans have the capability to remain in Afghanistan for a very long time, if they chose so. Instead, they moved out. Quickly. I wonder why.

    • Replies: @Gidoutahere
    , @Ray Caruso
  22. @TKK

    Your Jew neo-liberal/neo-con post is just that–a Jew neo-liberal/neo-con post. Means nothing to anyone who has broken free of Talmudic brainwashing.

  23. @beavertales

    “And Gomex—George W Bush —brother of Marvin Bush ( who was in Charge of Security World Trade Center and boss of overtime and weekend wiring of buildings in complex –1 2 7 ) gave the following statement earlier today —“Many of you deal with wounds of war, both visible and invisible,” the statement read. “And some of your brothers and sisters in arms made the ultimate sacrifice in the war on terror. Each day, we have been humbled by your commitment and your courage. You took out a brutal enemy and denied Al Qaeda a safe haven while building schools, sending supplies, and providing medical care. You kept America safe from further terror attacks, provided two decades of security and opportunity for millions, and made America proud. We thank you from the bottom of our hearts and will always honor your contributions.”——and this is WHY George W Bush is the greatest since the Towers of Doom appeared on Wrestling along with Diesel and Big Boss Man—-” and somehow I think my neighoubour has been watching too much Tucker Carlson and others……

    • Replies: @profnasty
  24. @Stan

    What about miscarriages —are they going to ex-communicate Mother Nature??

    • Replies: @Neuday
  25. The Taliban Statement to the World upon their victory, telling Western people that the Taliban does not hate us, it is only our governments, ‘run by Zionists and atheists’, who were their enemies. And he directs hopeful remarks to ‘especially the Palestinians’:

    For the last 40 years, we have struggled to establish peace in Afghanistan. We have defeated the forces of the atheistic Communists and the Zionist West, and we have liberated our country.

    We invite all Afghans to participate in our Islamic Emirate and we promise we will work for the betterment of our people. Our priorities are to bring peace to all regions of Afghanistan and to ensure the fairness of law. We will punish those who have done evil, and we will pardon those who fought against us, but have now submitted themselves. Allah is the most merciful and we can only thank Allah for our victory. Islam will be upheld in Afghanistan.

    We have but a few things to say to the world. If you want peace with us, end your hatred for our government of Afghanistan and recognise our rule. We are the rulers of this land graced by Allah, and no matter how hard you have tried, you have never defeated us.

    To the people of this world, especially the Palestinians, we hope that our victory over the superpowers of mankind will inspire you, as our faith in Allah has been confirmed for all to see. How can you deny Allah and his will, when he has delivered such a great victory to the believers?

    We dream of a world in which there is peace between all and we ask all world governments to recognise our government.

    Our message to the American people and people of the Western powers who fought us, who we know are hurt by this defeat, is simple: we do not have any hatred for you. Your governments, ran by Zionists and atheists, who want to spread their anti-Islamic views here, were our enemies, not you. We will pray for the day when you liberate yourselves from their grip, and there can be peace upon this planet.

    One day, in the future, we hope the whole world will see the truth of Islam. Allah is the most merciful.

  26. Escobar is not telling us the whole story.

    the Empire clearly made more of a deal with the Taliban than we have been told about. The Afghan Army was clearly ordered to stand down. Their Air Force did nothing. The USA Air Force did nothing.

    Thus what we see is simply a change of power agreement. The propaganda frame is ‘The cowardly/inept Afghan Army ran away’. This provides a scapegoat, as clearly seen in Biden’s speech.

    Another propaganda frame ‘heightened risk of terrorism’. I predict that will not be long lasting propaganda frame. The strategy has changed.

    The empire will soon be making trade deals and mineral rights deals and arms deals with their former and soon to be again, Islamic Ally. Remember the empire was the midwife of the Taliban, and as Escobar says, the Empire sprung Baradar from a Pakistani jail in 2018.

    Who knows, maybe the now well equipped Taliban freedom fighters will join the USA soldiers in Syria and fight alongside them to bring fundamentalist Islam to Syria.

    And don’t exclude other future possibilities, basing agreements for the empire in the Islamic Caliphate of Afghanistan. Why not?

    • Disagree: antibeast
    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  27. “There is allegedly no mass hysteria in the capital: that’s been the exclusive domain of Anglo-American mainstream media.”

    Yesterday, I decided to find out what was going on on the Afgani TV, i found this:

    https://www.afghanlive.tv/tolo-news-live/

    It is clear that the situation is calm, the journalists have not been replaced with Talibans (at least yet) and are doing their work rather peacefully, interviewing the Taliban leadership who seem to accept their position.

    I don’t understand Pashtun language but spendind some time watching the news at regular intervals during the day lead me to that conclusion.

  28. Malla says:

    Islamic Emirate, the Taliban have carefully cultivated good relations with key Eurasia players – Russia, China, Pakistan, Iran and the Central Asian ‘stans.

    International alliances are made and broken according to situations. there was a time when Iran, Russia and India combined, were supporting the opposition to the Taliban, Ahmed Shah Masood.
    Lets not forget that.

    The Taliban is looked at by some as an extension of the Pakistani secret services ISI. Even if that is an exaggeration today, they sure have good influence and always had since the Taliban was born.

  29. Malla says:
    @TKK

    Remember: the end game for the Woke Machinations of the Left is the Taliban. Agree with my beliefs or I will kill you.

    The Islamists, the Communists, the Hindutvas, post colonial studies etc.. are to a large extent driven by extreme hatred for Western liberal culture. By that I do not mean today’s Judeo-Negro-Feminist-Globo Homo “Western” “Culture” but that of the Victorianish past. Like the Satanic hate and jealousy of a crone witch. Western populations are like Eloi, unaware of this level of hatred towards them.
    Ironically Western liberal culture allows closet Communists to take over slowly (march through the institutions, constantly pushing the Overton Window towards Orwellian Marxism) and allows Islamists and Hindutva groups to thrive in Western societies.
    National Socialism and Fascism were a reaction to this weakness of liberal democracies against ever creeping Judeo-banker funded, Fabian Marxism in society.

    • Agree: Alden
  30. m___ says:
    @TKK

    The Taliban did not defeat the US/NATO empire. The US empire backed out. Did a cost/benefit analysis and left. NATO had to follow suit.

    A sandwich of truth!

    • Agree: Decoy
  31. Many nations are probably re-thinking nuclear and/or other WMD.

  32. frontier says:
    @beavertales

    The future of America is a Western version of the Pashtunwali. An honor code based on tribe and customs, blood and values.

    Why not beaver tales and pink unicorns? Seriously, instead of risky experiments with all of us, why don’t you go to Afghanistan and let us know how it’s working out?

  33. Souza says:

    Dear Author:

    It was a pleasure following your last articles here at UNZ.COM with respect to the complete failure of ISAF.

    Actually, writing to you far away, from your home country in South America, I have mixed feelings.

    On one hand, I think about the suffering of those Afghans who maybe once again endure very hard times.

    By the way, in 2019 in the Sao Paulo Cinema Festival there was a brilliant Documentary from an European Director exposing a children gang who has a complete domain close to one of the borders of Afghanistan (could be that narrow stretch with China?).

    A dozen kids between 10 to 15 controlling vast lands riding their horses, using heroin and plundering everything in their way. An incredible Documentary, the real Afghanistan it looked to me.

    On the other hand, as Nebojsa Malic put it: `Now the Entire World Knows the Emperor (the United States) Has No Clothes.`

    Ahahahahahahahahahahah.

  34. @Stan

    One wonders how much longer the Bishop of Rome will count as a devout Catholic under such a definition.

  35. EdwardM says:

    The Taliban did not defeat the US/NATO empire. The US empire backed out. Did a cost/benefit analysis and left. NATO had to follow suit.

    Agree. Only a couple of thousand American troops were able to preclude this takeover until they left. This is a political, not military, failure of the empire.

    Of course Republicans blame Biden et al. to score partisan political points, but if President Trump had walked away like this, most commenters here would be praising him. Biden did what Trump could or would not do.

    Biden took the action that Trump was elected on, the action that most Americans support — presumably over the opposition of the deep state/military-industrial complex. He deserves credit, even if he did blunder into it like everything he does.

    • Replies: @Publius 2
  36. Anon[354] • Disclaimer says:

    It was mentioned the STAN in the text. It is a Serbian word which means ‘a place of leaving’ and was brought by Aryans to this region 4000 years ago. So, we have Afghanistan, Pakistan, Hindustan, Rajasthan, Kazakhstan, Kurdistan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Kirgizstan, etc. Sometimes the STAN has the same meaning as House or Home but not always. Not every Stan is a home, you may have several STAN-s and you may or may not feel that it is your Home. There are hundreds of words derived from the STAN. For example, STAN-iste, means Habitat, i.e. can be applicable not only for humans then for plants and animals, too. Ergo, the meaning of Afghanistan, for e.g, is – the place where Afghans (Hindu, Kurds, Kazakhs, etc.) live.

  37. Sarah says:

    And then mid-morning on Sunday brought the stunning visual re-enactment of the Saigon moment, for all the world to see: a Chinook helicopter hovering over the roof of the American embassy in Kabul.

    I disagree; your comparison is WRONG: it is NOT THE SAME MODEL of helicopter

    • Disagree: Emslander
  38. Ocko says:

    Seems the Demonrats are giving up on world hegemony.

    Slowly giving it to the Russia China connection.

    It is obvious that the USA and its military can’t control the earth anymore.

    In a few years they may beg for deals with the new hegemon.

    They started already with peace contract with Russia.

    The mid east is going for the new hegemon. They abandon the USA, a looser of this game.

    The oil is going to other states. They will loose their foothold in Syria and Iraq. That would be the next step of the new hegemon tandem.

    The USA already starts to loose Europe which increasingly connects to Russia.

    The US may keep a hold on South and Middle America but the cracks are already visible with Russia connection to some South American States.

    The arrogant behavior of American Politicians wasn’t very helpful either.

    It might be that Canada and the US might merge at one time. Possibly Mexico will do so too.

    The jewish empire is collapsing

  39. eah says:

    I don’t care.

    Afghanistan has always been and always will be a shithole, with some of the lowest quality human capital in the world — I am sorry about what happened there/what was done to that country by misbegotten American ‘nation builders’ imperialists in the name of the idiotic ‘War on Terror’, especially the tens of thousands of dead Afghans, many of them civilians (‘collateral damage’) — I’m even sorrier about all the American lives wasted there, the thousands of dead as well as the thousands more with gruesome lifelong injuries, including amputations — and within the manifestly evil fiat money regime, the estimated \$2 trillion cost means debt slavery for future generations of American citzens vassals.

    But I don’t want any more Afghans to land anywhere in the West because of it.

    • Replies: @Realist
  40. Meanwhile on the “Chinese front”, US hubris has no limit

    https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202108/1231691.shtml

    “In a tweet on Tuesday, US Senator John Cornyn astonishingly said that the US has as many as 30,000 troops stationed on Taiwan island, more than the 28,000 US troops in South Korea. If that is true, the Chinese government and the Chinese people will never accept it. It is believed that China will immediately put the Anti-Secession Law into use, destroy and expel US troops in Taiwan by military means, and at the same time realize reunification by force. ”

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  41. Ocko says:

    Israel will be toast in one decade.

    Their stronghold in the US is crumbling. Jews are increasingly unpopular in the US

    • Agree: Alfred Muscaria
    • Replies: @anonymous
  42. It is really a pity that Zbigniew Brzezinski did not live to see this exciting moment

    • LOL: Alden
    • Replies: @Notsofast
  43. Ocko says:

    Russia is already inviting the Taliban to Moscow, most likely to integrate it into the Russian controlled world.

    I have the not so uncertain feeling that Russia got a deal with Biden/Jews during the peace negotiations which the jews asked for to win some time. Obviously the price for peace was to disengage in the underbelly of Russia, also known as the Middle East.

    It was very strange to see the Jews/US to crawl to Russia to beg for peace.

    What is really going on?

  44. Miro23 says:
    @Wokechoke

    According to the russian embassy ghani showed up at the airport with 4 cars filled with cash but couldn’t fit it all in the helicopter and had to leave some on the tarmac, poor fellow.

    That was the US puppet. Embezzling the poor afghans.

    OK, he got some of the 2 Trillion dollars, but where did the rest of it go? It’s interesting for US taxpayers because they’re carrying this debt.

    • Disagree: Ocko
    • Replies: @Rev. Spooner
  45. Emslander says:
    @Stan

    The Taliban are closer to devout Catholicism than are Biden, Kerry and Pelosi. If Catholicism were declared illegal in the USA, there wouldn’t be enough evidence to convict any of them.

    • Agree: some_loon
  46. It helps when your army, like the Taliban, don’t wear uniforms. How do you identify them? Just an Afghan with a gun, like any other Afghan. So they were waiting for this Taliban army to storm Kabul only to find out they were already there; hence the surprise at how quickly it all took.

    And then many of those in uniforms of the Afghan government army and police may have also been Taliban sympathisers in disguise working for a paycheck but with no loyalty or devotion to their paymasters.

    • Replies: @Spender_CGB
  47. I doubt this will happen, but it would be interesting if the Taliban were to conduct a thorough investigation and exposé of everything they know about the activities of OBL and Al Qaida while they were hosted in Afghanistan to show whether it was possible, or not, that they conducted the attack on WTC on 911. If they can provide evidence that OBL was not behind the attack it would delegitimise US’s invasion of Afghanistan, demonstrating that it was done on false pretense, and help their case for compensation from America for all the damage it did during the illegitimate 20 year war.

  48. Wokechoke says:

    I’m more liberal than the Taliban but tbh they’ve got the right idea on several levels.

  49. So you are saying that the Taliban took heed of the notion of ‘patience is a virtue’..

    The currently critical part of the ideology of the Taliban centres on ‘no foreign military forces’ in Afghanistan. (Perhaps without permission). This is a standard position for any nation that has any semblance of sovereignty – Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Muslim, Atheist, Liberal, whatever.

    What part of the Taliban taking half the country in a ten day blitzkrieg with almost no shots fired makes you think they are the oppressors?!

    What makes you think the Muslims who lived under forced LGBT propaganda by NATO want to continue to live under them, when they simply welcomed “the other” ideology?

    You implying (surrendering) Afghanis are uneducated goat fuckers for not understanding the benevolence of the ideology your people tried to push on their people, shows you as ignorant of their own needs and wants.

    Understand this: their culture is theirs. Their culture will accept debate with considerate outsiders, and may even shift opinion, subject to an honest, duress free discussion. On big theological issues, these debates take decades/centuries – such as the Hindu/Buddhist debates from about the first century BC till the mid first millennium.

    Their culture is theirs. However, economically, that their culture doesn’t jive with yours is an aside – what matters from geopolitics (not ‘ideologipolitics’?), is business – can you and the foreign culture agree to some economic terms, beneficial to both parties, whilst leaving the cultural difference to soft power to mingle and adjust?

    Western history shows that ‘beneficial to both parties’ is not something the elites that have ruled for the last half of a millennium generally take into account.

    This is the West’s problem – it can’t accept freedom of trade, freedom of exchange of ideas, any freedom other than the freedom to sit on an aged throne it believes gives it power to dictate terms to others.

    The roughness of the Taliban will be smoothed by balanced, fair, international relations – something that will be offered by the global South, and considerate, condescending powers like Russia and China.

    • Agree: Arthur MacBride
    • Thanks: Alfred
  50. gotmituns says:

    I’m shocked, shocked I tell you. None of you have mentioned the obvious. I haven’t seen one photograph or video of a Taliban wearing a mask. We should attack them with our best CDC units, the 534th airborne motorized assault brigade and force them and the rest of the people of Afghanistan to be jabbed against Covid immediately. If they resist, then of course, kill them – after all, it’s for their own good. We know best.

    • LOL: the grand wazoo
    • Replies: @some_loon
    , @anonymous
  51. @TKK

    Thank you for showing us yet again why the US cannot be saved.

  52. Publius 2 says:
    @EdwardM

    You think Biden is actually making decisions or controlling anything?

    • Replies: @Maddaugh
  53. IronForge says:

    Clinton & Bush Buddies initially went into AFG to Buy Up Drilling and Piping Rights to start extracting Petroleum; but problems dealing with the Taliban led to this FalseFlagOps of 9/11.

    Bin Laden allegedly/most likely died early based on his failing Health. AFG were invaded; but “Nation-Building” a Failed-State somehow Cluster-Failed.

    The Poppies started growing into a profitable harvest, and even though a 300K Strong Army was raised, no Drilling-Extractions nor Pipelines were enabled on an Industrial Scale.

    Perhaps TEAM_Murica though differently regarding “Nation Building”. It takes more than Occupational Foreign Militaries and the Training of Local Armed Subjects to run a Modern Economy; and forcing Cultural Changes – especially regarding Women – were probably not thought through.

  54. Anon[390] • Disclaimer says:

    \$2 trillion are actually the loan. By 2048, with interest it will amount to \$6.5 trillion and it should be paid by taxpayers. About 51.000 Talibans were killed and (officially) about 48000 civilians. It means, the cost was about \$500 millions/day or about \$60 million/dead Taliban.

    If they, instead, gave to every Taliban a Hollywood mansion with a swimming pool and a Ferrari, it would be much cheaper and much more effective. And, what to think about the mental ability of an average American?

    • Agree: GomezAdddams
  55. Fred777 says:
    @Anon

    Did Andropov, or his handlers, actively undermine their own country?

  56. Maddaugh says:
    @Publius 2

    You think Biden is actually making decisions or controlling anything?

    He is controlling his bladder and sphincter. What more do you want ?

  57. Maddaugh says:

    The adversaries of the US fight to win.

    We “fight” to make our Generals and everyone else in the top echelons rich. None of these guys give a shit about Afghanistan or the common soldier. You have to naive or incredibly dumb to believe any of them give a fuck about Afghan women’s rights, bringing democracy to Afghan, wokeism, finding Osama, defending freedom or whether their top secretly transgender sergeants get new cunts cut compliments of the taxpayer.

    They hop from their senior government positions to the Boards of the defence contractors and back again. So…the longer a war goes on, the richer they become. The more US bases all over the place, the more logistics, the more money to be spent by Uncle Sammy and earned by Big Business.

    When Mad Dog Mathis and General Dustbin are allegedly worth \$5M and \$7M and pirouette between Gumment and Defence suppliers, when a Subway sandwich costs \$5 in the US but \$25 at some remote US military shit hole, when troops stationed in desolate outposts (serving what purpose??) have TV, swimming pools, tennis courts, video games, satellite connections, hot showers, turkey and cranberry sauce flown in etc etc etc, you just know :
    1. The American taxpayer is being fucked hard
    2. The goal is to get rich not to win

    The crew we have at the Pentagon are a disgrace out for themselves and chumps putting themselves in danger for these clowns better face up to reality. When your son comes back minus limbs, his face or his mind, you can bet Joey’s son will still be partying, snorting, loking, toking, smoking and getting his joint polished and balls demolished.

    The US public are the suckers and the Washington elite are the fuckers. That is just how it is and there seems to be no end in sight or in site !

    • Agree: Garliv
    • Replies: @Hillbob
  58. ariadna says:
    @TG

    Your joke would have been more effective if you had not waited until the third paragraph to deliver it, by which time the reader is bored.
    Even so, it is funny as hell:
    “9/11 happened because we allowed crazed Islamic jihadists from Pakistan and Saudi Arabia to come here. Many of them were illegal immigrants – if we had enforced the laws, 9/11 could never have happened.”

  59. We’ll see how things turn out in Central Asia somewhere down the line. The international bankers have a reset planned, and they hate peace. Until then the empire of chaos is taking their act inward. I suspect Mr. Escobar will follow his beloved CCP in celebrating American bloodshed. Don’t worry Pepe, the neocon and political classes will survive. Maybe move to China too.

  60. xyzxy says:
    @TKK

    The Taliban did not defeat the US/NATO empire. The US empire backed out.

    Dammit! Those cost/benefit analyses ruin it every time. Who allowed those bean counters into the situation room, anyway?

    If we’d only spent another trillion dollars or two, bombed those god-forsaken hills for another twenty years, killed every goat-herder in the country, and lost another three or four thousand soldiers, we could have won. And that would have shown them!

    The Ziocon mind is truly an amazing thing to behold.

    • Agree: Realist
  61. Some very sour American losers here.

    But how many Afghans were killed by FUKUS in their 20-year occupation ?
    It’s too bad (but not really) that some occupying troops were killed.

    Reports on yet more American murderous crime just in the last 20 years.
    Just in one small area of the world.
    While running Heroin out of it.

    It would not be unreasonable for occupied/looted countries to seek reparations.
    Brief paper below, updated April 2021.

    https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/costs/human/civilians/afghan

    More detail but cutoff April 2018.

    https://consortiumnews.com/2018/04/03/how-many-people-has-the-u-s-killed-in-its-post-9-11-wars-part-2-afghanistan-and-pakistan/

    https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/files/cow/styles/standardimage/public/imce/costs/human/afghan-civilians-killed-wounded.jpg?itok=9q_DZlME

  62. Ghani, an anthropologist with a doctorate from Columbia, is one of those classic cases of Global South exiles to the West who “forget” everything that matters about their original lands.

    Thankfully Pepe always has some extra contextual information to share on events in Asia. It sounds like a recurring theme that the US administration relies on fantasy tales originating from foreign national expatriates when it comes to the final decision to wage war on some lesser country. PBS has aired countless interviews with such foreign political activists just before the wars in Irak and Afghanistan, and before other US military operations elsewhere. The foreign nationals are usually introduced as part of interviews with some local think-tank “expert”. Fortunately PBS used to show many points of view but other media show an obviously biased picture to their viewers supporting their own political ideologies. I no longer listen to those think-tank experts.

  63. @Commentator Mike

    Taliban sympathisers in disguise working for a paycheck but with no loyalty or devotion to their paymasters.

    I have to agree with you, there was a saying attributed to the Afghans which went something like this.

    “You can rent an Afghan but you can’t buy one.”

    This would apply to the Afghan army. Also the collaborators who our governments wish to ship to Europe and the USA. But when they find out that the rent they will receive overseas does not go very far, then we may have trouble with them.

  64. Realist says:
    @eah

    But I don’t want any more Afghans to land anywhere in the West because of it.

    It doesn’t matter what you want…the Deep State will decide what you get.

  65. RC says:
    @TG

    The Saudi regime and Alqaeda were enemies. Aq opposed US military bases in their holy land which the Saudi regime allowed. Alqaeda saw themselves as freedom fighters; opposed to all US or Soviet aligned regimes in the ME. Its a self serving narrative to say the SA regime was aligned with Alqaeda. Which is why the US gave a free pass to Saudis that day; Americans would say they were Saudi’s ergo they must be Alqaeda; just what is said now.
    Whenever there’s a perceived problem for US in one country we’re meddling in, we blame some other country. Now it’s all Pakistan’s fault; How dare they not kill all their tribal Pastuns for US

    • Agree: littlereddot
  66. profnasty says:
    @GomezAdddams

    Swonderful we went to Afghanistan to dole out candy and stuffed animal toys.
    Ft. Bragg is really like as Santa’s workshop:
    Not at all like a training ground for terrorists.
    George Bush- Santa Claws.

  67. Neuday says:
    @GomezAdddams

    Catholics, the real variety, not politicians, belief in natural life, from conception to natural death. It’s still considered a child. Up to 20 weeks gestation it’s a miscarriage; after 20 weeks it’s called a stillbirth. It’s essentially treated like the death of a sick child. Tragic and deeply painful for the parents, but who God calls and when is not something we humans should be arguing with God about. Abortion is an entirely different matter.

  68. @Dodge City Pete

    Sounds like SCOTUS. Always mostly Catholics, with Jews also over-represented relative to the US population. As the CDC(!) Eviction Moratorium shows SCOTUS has no power, and the Pope rules the Catholics.

  69. @Unit472

    Absolute Bollocks (crap) as we say in England.

    Soviet mining experts in the 1980s discovered that Afghanistan was rich in natural resources such as iron, copper, gold, cobalt, rare earth metals, and lithium, but the data lay hidden until the fall of the Taliban.

    In 2010, the Pentagon estimated Afghanistan’s mineral wealth at some \$1 trillion, although critics argued the deposits are cost-prohibitive to extract, not to mention the perils of mining in a war zone evidenced by China’s inability to extract copper from Mes Aynak for the past decade.

    https://theglobepost.com/2017/08/02/afghanistan-rare-earth-china/

  70. The US has been in Afghanistan since 1979 (remember Zbigniew Brzezinsk? Osama bin Laden?) Until the CIA with help from the Saudis, Pakistanis, and Israelis started civil war there, Afghanistan was just another Soviet -stan with a relatively modern society, women wore Western dress, went to school and University, had jobs– the Americans destroyed all that! They gave the Soviet Union their Vietnam. Of course, if left alone, Afghanistan would by now be just another former Soviet and probably a member of NATO. After the Saudis and CIA (probably others) pulled off 9/11, the US restarted the civil wars, and has been hammering Iraq and Afghanistan ever since.

    Afghanistan and the Taliban will be much better off under the aegis of China, Russia and Iran.

  71. @brabantian

    Yvonne Ridley: From Captive To Convert.

    • Thanks: Arthur MacBride
    • Troll: Che Guava
    • Replies: @Che Guava
  72. Smith says:

    Very interested in their social policies. Let’s see how they resist Westernization.

  73. Bruno says:

    People who jump on train in Calais for the UK or same in Ceuta are not fleeing persecution in France or in Marocco.

    Media presentation is centered on what they would do, not Afghans.

  74. Fred777 says:

    Fun watching the neocons go into “we never wanted to stay there anyway” mode.

  75. “So meet the new fall guy: the New Axis of Evil. The axis is Taliban-Pakistan-China.”

    And after China has used up the other two useful idiots, it will dump them like hot potatoes to be mashed up by USA.

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Rdm
  76. Notsofast says:
    @Mike_from_Russia

    he would have been so proud of his boys.

  77. How does that work? The US were supposed to give USSR their “Vietnam” in Afghanistan, but ended up giving not only USSR their “Vietnam”, they got another one for themselves too. So, basically now US has 2 “Vietnams”. And when all is said and done, I wouldn’t be surprised if they get a 3rd Vietnam – this one on their home soil. That’s how clever they are. Real strategists, those ones.

    • Replies: @notbe
  78. Alfred says:
    @TG

    9/11 happened because we allowed crazed Islamic jihadists from Pakistan and Saudi Arabia to come here. Many of them were illegal immigrants – if we had enforced the laws, 9/11 could never have happened, but hey, the rich want cheap labor so the laws are not enforced.

    This article presents evidence that the Israeli deep state was a prime mover in the events of 9-11. Note that it does not imply that other groups (i.e. the US deep state and maybe others) were not involved in both the commission and cover up of the September 11 attacks.

    The 9-11 event advanced the Neocon PNAC agenda, with its explicitly stated need for “…a catastrophic and catalysing event – like a new Pearl Harbor” [1] in order to mobilise US public opinion for already planned wars, the effects of which would be to destroy Israel’s enemies.

    “9-11/Israel did it”


    Bibi Netanyahu REAL NAME BenZion Mileikowsky says “SEPTEMBER 11TH WAS GOOD FOR ISRAEL!”


    • Agree: Druid55
    • Thanks: profnasty, Joe Levantine
  79. Alfred says:
    @TKK

    The Taliban did not defeat the US/NATO empire.

    It is fun to watch Americans rewriting recent history on the fly. 🤣

  80. Anon[319] • Disclaimer says:

    I am watching the press conference of Taliban on BBC .
    They seem to be fielding all kinds of questions like , will you allow previous government any part, will you treat the anti -Taliban activists fairly , will you stop opium , will you allow education for girls and women , will you stop supporting terrorism , what kind of government Afghanistan will have , will women have roles in government.

    I wonder did these bunch of well – barbecued journalist ever ask or has the guts to ask same question to Cheney – Bush gang – like treatment of Taliban , or opening school for girls or offering jobs for girls outside ministry or outside Kabul or stopping of opium or killing of civilians .

    May be these bunch of reporters ask what’s NATO did to Libyan women and to Syrian women . They should ask what they did to Afghan women in 20 years .

    Like that bastard of Bush administration who told be careful what you asked , these people should be told to be careful and not carry the nasty linguistic war for the neocons .

  81. JimDandy says:
    @Wokechoke

    The one time the MSM praised Donald Trump was when he pretended to get on board the Neocon train and fake bombed Syria. The only time the MSM turned on Biden was when he showed disobedience to the craziest caucus of that same cabal.

  82. gotmituns says:
    @TKK

    It’s only a “defeat” if you care about “winning or losing.” In that our war making has nothing to do with winning or losing but only about contracts and inventory, I’m sure Ratheon, Boeing, Loceed,, etc., etc., etc., are highly please with their bottom lines.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter, Realist
    • Replies: @The Real World
  83. Jiminy says:

    Here today Chairman Morrison was asked if the Afghanistan invasion debacle was all worth it. Morrison’s reply was that no Australian soldier has ever died in vain. That’s guaranteed to put the grieving families at ease.
    Does anybody remember ever seeing a press photograph of the taliban having a meeting in the White House that happened years ago. I wanted to show somebody but I can’t seem to find it anywhere. Maybe I was dreaming it.

  84. If I were recruiting for special ops or Seal Team 6, I would look no further than fighters from Taliban, ISIS, Al Quida and muhjihaden desert warriors. These guys have balls. There beheading techniques are second to none. They can withstand mother of all bombs and still run around US/NATO/Allied forces as if they were warrior gods fighting LGBTIQPWXYZ girlimen.

    I can’t wait to see all the upcoming blockbuster movies (((they will make))) of their Islamic heroics by Jewish studios, producers and directors betraying them as cave dwellers and desert monkeys.

    How many 1-2-3-4 star generals are now walking around with their circumcised pecker stuck up their butt?
    And how many warmongering pos are shouting from their penthouses, super yachts, Islands and palatial estates ……singing…

    Bomb bomb bomb Iran
    Swiftly as you can
    Merrily merrily merrily merrily
    Life is but a dream

    • Replies: @gotmituns
    , @Druid55
  85. What would an ‘American Taliban’ look like?

    Like the Founders.

    A very White expression of a people, joined by common heritage and values, seeking peaceful self-determination and dominion over themselves and their land.

  86. gotmituns says:
    @CelestiaQuesta

    There beheading techniques are second to none
    ——————————————————-
    In years gone by, Western Europe beheaded very well – Gilitine. They also did very well at garroting. Then of course, they had drawing and quarterin, not to mention straight hanging which England prided themselves on before overflow crowds. So don’t sell us westerners short as far as judicial murder goes.

    • LOL: CelestiaQuesta
  87. This new and improved Taliban has had a metamorphosis and they are now all butterflies. Women can work but have to wear hijab. Shias can have their Moharram celebrations and will not be shot. Girls can go to schools and women can teach.
    It’s a dream come true. I hope they stick to their proclamations
    Who knew that Americans were running re-education camps for the Taliban? Americans are so modest.
    Jokes aside, I think it’s a deal cut aside with China and Iran.

  88. @beavertales

    What would an ‘American Taliban’ look like?

    Like the Founders.

    A very White expression of a people, joined by common heritage and values, seeking peaceful self-determination and dominion over themselves and their land.

    Except they promptly invited Shlomo in to rule over them with the (((Bank of US))) before the grass even grew on the graves. Hopefully the Taliban will do better.

  89. @Miro23

    The way this is going, you and US taxpayers will pay for it by the time you and your descendants have devolved again back into one celled organisms.

  90. Well sheeple, Judeo/Christians/Magic Negros, saints and Jews…..
    Let’s all March to the drum and song that song…..

    Over there, over there
    Spread the word spread the word over there
    That the Jews are coming
    The Jews are coming
    They’re drum drum drumming everywhere

    Ok rainbow LGBTIQPWXYZ chorus, it’s your turn

    Over there, over there
    Spread the word spread the word over there
    That the Gays are coming
    The Gays are coming
    They’re drum drum drumming everywhere

    • LOL: Alfred Muscaria
  91. Anonymous[320] • Disclaimer says:

    We came, we saw, we got our asses kicked.

    Although it could’ve been better executed, I still think it’s right to pull out. I agree with Biden when he said:

    “How many more generations of America’s daughters and sons would you have me send to fight Afghanistan’s civil war when Afghan troops will not? How many more lives, American lives, is it worth, how many endless rows of headstones at Arlington National Cemetery?…American troops cannot and should not be fighting in a war and dying in a war that Afghan forces are not willing to fight for themselves…I’m clear in my answer. I will not repeat the mistakes we’ve made in the past. The mistake of staying and fighting indefinitely in a conflict that is not in the national interest of the United States”.

    Let’s hope he remembers this the next time the neocons/neolibs in his admin pushes for another war. And it’s also freaking time to pull out of Iraq and Syria, as well as shutting down the 700+ US military bases around the world. Put the troops on our southern border instead to stop the illegal immigration assault, that is where the real war is for America.

    • Replies: @profnasty
    , @One-off
  92. “… and in no way will they ever surrender their guns”.
    That sounds to me, as an American’, a very important statement. A statement that we all should take to heart. When the smoke has cleared in Afghanistan it will be clear to all how important an armed citizenry is to freedom. Hopefully Americans are paying attention.

  93. @beavertales

    What would an American Taliban look like? Hopefully as dedicated as the Afghan Taliban. We’re thinking alike.

  94. Anonymous[320] • Disclaimer says:

    Check out the second and third videos, nuts:

    These are all young able men running like cucks leaving behind their women and children, and these are the people we now want to bring to the US.

    • Replies: @Rubiyat
  95. Rubiyat says:
    @Anonymous

    I welcome them. Maybe they can beat some sense into our women.

  96. Rooster11 says:

    Thousands of Afghan refugees coming to a select Red State near you!

    Watching this all unfold, I thought even the most junior military commander would know to shutdown non-military operations, fly civilians out, remove equipment, and finally fly out all remaining military personnel. However, with all the nefarious actors in D.C., this was most likely a manufactured crisis. How many of those “Afghan “civilians” were vetted before cramming on to the plane? More than likely a few “Insurgents” were riding among them, soon to be planted in a city near you, and our leaders know exactly what’s going on.

    My god, imagine the horrors we’ll be seeing over the coming years as these terrorist cells are activated within our own borders. The atrocities will be carried out by these folks, and it’ll be blamed on White Nationalists; many of the same very people who fought over there, thinking they were defending freedom. Prepare now, you won’t have time to soon.

  97. You are a Cnut. You are a horrible man. Your country invaded theirs without any evidence or reason (911 was a false flag) and now you vilify those who helped your soldiers survive and will now will suffer. Rot in hell.

  98. Taliban gave a press conference —

    Taliban promises peace, amnesty, rights ‘within Sharia law’ & ‘narcotics-free’ Afghanistan in first intl media press conference

    https://www.rt.com/news/532319-taliban-promises-peace-rights-afghanistan/

    Meanwhile in Iraq, thought by some to be the next for the US to exit, a recommendation has been issued. Americans have killed over two million Iraqi’s so far … “only” multiple hundreds of thousands in Afghan …

    A senior leader of Iraq’s al-Nujaba resistance movement has urged the American forces stationed in the Arab country to “take lessons” from their humiliating defeat in and ouster from Afghanistan.

    https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2021/08/17/664642/Iraq-al-Nujaba-Movement-Nasr-al-Shammari-Joe-Biden-Taliban-Afghanistan-Resistance-Front

    Meanwhile Joe Biden is holed up in Camp David …

  99. @George Kovachev

    Carpet bomb the whole country? You under estimate by several orders of magnitude what that would require. Even if it were doable, which it is not, it is silly to offer it as an option. Leaving Afghanistan has more to do with much cheaper fentanyl replacing heroin. Money dries up no need to stay.

  100. rok53 says:

    And while our civilian and military leaders were searching for White supremacism———–
    ——

  101. Truth says:
    @beavertales

    What would an ‘American Taliban’ look like?

    A very White expression of a people, joined by common heritage and values, seeking peaceful self-determination and dominion over themselves and their land.

    Worshipping Allah. FIFY

    http://exposingislam.blogspot.com/2013/07/teenage-white-muslim-convert-who-wants.html

  102. Rahan says:

    At first I was like “I’m gonna quote Reagan on his support for Afghan freedom fighters and feel all superior and ironic”

    But then I was like “To be fair, he would indeed see today’s US govt as an Evil Empire”

  103. BorisMay says:

    What a load of rubbish.

    This is quite simply a handover by the US to an ‘approved version’ of the Taliban.

    Pepe Escobar has been paid the requisite thirty pieces of silver to write this obfuscation of the the truth.

    This is quite simply the primary founders of terrorist organisations, the US, handing power on a silver platter, to their approved terrorists who will now do the bidding of Israel through US funding.

    Pepe has lost his way…sad that he writes lies now.

    • Agree: Alden
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  104. some_loon says:
    @Sarah

    it is NOT THE SAME MODEL of helicopter

    Both appear to be Chinooks, judging from the images.

    They may be different versions of Chinhooks, I suppose.

    • LOL: Sarah
  105. fnn says:

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  106. anon[185] • Disclaimer says:

    It all goes back to 911 and who was responsible for it. It was pinned on Bin Laden who always denied it; which is unusual as most terrorists are eager to claim responsibility for their horrible actions, yet there were dozens of things which were not examined in the official report so is there a great deal of doubt there.
    There lies the answer but when the question arises anyone with any aspirations to power clamps up tighter than a chicken’s arsehole.
    Ron Unz and a few hundred other brave people examined it openly but they were the exception rather than the rule.
    911 was the springboard which prompted the invasion of Iraq, Afganistan, the destruction of Libya and the partial destruction of Syria, and probably a lot of other things.
    ‘War on Terror’, sombody mused, ‘has a nice ring to it and could make a lot of unscrupulous people very rich indeed. Yahoo!’
    Maybe some poor but lucky fisherman in the Arabian Gulf will find a personally monogrammed pair of Bin Laden’s sneakers floating around there, thus ending for all time the questions which keep bobbing to the surface about what actually happened out there. If anything.

  107. Saigon ended up another hotspot of terrorist Ziocorporate globalism’s investor/financial schemes for mass-production of mass-consumption shit for the masses worldwide to buy.

    Taliban are Islamic ragheads, and like any religious cultists, even Iranians Shias and Orthodox Russians, not that other “Russian-speaking cuntry” in Ziojew-occupied Palestine, will most likel be using “faith” as another point of contention to “negotiate” abroad.

    Any talk of full poppy/heroin production legalisation and regulation, and accountability for the US/EUNATO Ziocorporatist entities feeding off that scheme is off the table, China and Russia have to keep negotiating “multipolarity” with their Zioterrorist “great reset” business partners.

  108. John1955 says:

    “On a cost-effectiveness basis the colonists would not have revolted King George III, nor would John Paul Jones have engaged the Serapis Bonhomme Richard, an inferior ship. The Greeks at Thermopylae Salamis would not have stood up to the Persians had they had cost-effectiveness to advise them, or had these cost-effectiveness people been in charge.”

    Admiral Hyman G Rickover,Father of the US Nuclear Navy,also known as KOG aka Kindly Old Gentleman 😁
    (Hearings before a subcommittee of the Committee on Appropriations, House of Representatives, Eighty-ninth Congress, second session )

    Well,I guess Taliban are not big fans of cost-benefit analysis.
    And thats why they are in Kabul (and everywhere else)

    • Replies: @nokangaroos
  109. some_loon says:
    @gotmituns

    and force them and the rest of the people of Afghanistan to be jabbed against Covid immediately. If they resist, then of course, kill them – after all, it’s for their own good.

    And all the worse for them if they die unvaxxed!

    Much worse.

    • Replies: @Ilya G Poimandres
  110. @Anon

    Bimbo Biden = Boris Yeltsin….only worse.

    And to answer Fred’s comment: Imo, the distinction is not exactly that Biden ‘sold out his country’ but, rather, that he was BOUGHT a long time ago so, he owed his purchasers. They installed him to do their bidding and the old idiot has no choice.

  111. @gotmituns

    THIS…. ^^^^…. is absolutely what it’s really all about.

    MONEY and CONTROL….MONEY and CONTROL…..MONEY and CONTROL.

  112. @fnn

    He should have answered “We are our own Facebook”.

  113. frontier says:
    @El Dato

    but who wants to live by radical Islam, a device engineered to keep Arab raiders in the same band?

    A lot of wannabe Talibans around here but nobody took my offer to move to Afghanistan and live their dream lives…

    Team Drama Queen is again at work on this article, led by Escobar himself – their complete lack of understanding is as predictable as it’s boring and it turns the conversation into a meaningless circle jerk… Well done Escobar, well done…

    • Agree: Alden
  114. @Dodge City Pete

    I suppose you think that Argentinian pretender currently ensconsed in the Vatican is a Catholic too.

    Vaya con Dios, you poor deluded soul.

  115. @Anon

    I would have picked Chernenko, a placeholder of little serious consequence in his political life, installed by the Party elite while they worked out who they really wanted.

  116. @Sarah

    You are figuratively rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic.

    • LOL: Sarah
  117. Anonymous[331] • Disclaimer says:
    @Bugey libre

    Sure, anybody can tweet about anything. John Cornyn can say we have 30,000 troops in Taiwan, that does not make it so. In fact, I call 100% bullshit.

    Do you know why their government have NEVER allowed any foreign troops in Taiwan? Because the people living there would equate it with foreign occupation.

    Remember, the memories of the Centuries of Humiliation are very real and a core part of Taiwan’s curriculum. Regardless of how they view the Mainland, the people on Taiwan are first and foremost, solidly Chinese. Allow 30,000 American troops into Taiwan = INSTANT loss of legitimacy for the Taipei regime.

    That’s just a funny tweet, for entertainment purposes.

  118. babu says:

    911 an inside job brought to you by the CIA & Mossad.

  119. c matt says:
    @Dodge City Pete

    Whoa whoa whoa, “devout catholic”?!? Let’s not get carried away here. Cultural Catholic at best. Unless by not capitalizing catholic you are referring to their universalist mindset rather than self professed religion.

  120. c matt says:
    @El Dato

    Argentinians 🇦🇷?

    • LOL: Angharad
  121. anon[320] • Disclaimer says:

    Kyle Bass the Ziocon evangelical christian dumbass from hell claims that Afghanistan sits on \$3T worth of rare earth minerals that China will now swoop in to help themselves to. Either he just gave away the true reason why we tried to take over Afghanistan, or he’s full of shite/hate as usual. The US was there for 20 years, don’t you think those Ziocons would’ve cleaned them out by now if the rare earth minerals actually exist and are as valuable as he claims? Every time this POS idiot hatemonger opens his mouth nothing but feces comes out.

    • Replies: @Ed Case
  122. @John1955

    Errrm … maybe not quite.

    The cost of putting a pair of GI stilettoes on the ground in Afghanistan
    will support a Taliban company on the offensive in style.
    As if that weren´t bad enough, the vast majority of said stilettoes are
    preoccupied with protecting themselves, and the few who are not
    produce nothing but more hatred and contempt
    (listening to the Special Forces or the Germans be lame).

    I suppose the Taliban are BIG fans of the maff.

  123. Milla says:

    I know nothing about this and didn’t even read the whole article, but based on previous experiences with the media: What if most Afghanis prefer the Taliban to the Americans? Maybe the people fleeing were the traitors. If they could advance that fast they didn’t meet much restistance, did they? Is it that hard to believe that the Americans can be The Worst? Look what they did to the Germans.

    I live in Norway and right after this war the heroine started flowing into the country. It went from being very rare to all over the place in a moment. The Taliban could’ve made a lot of money by selling heroine too, but they didn’t. They pretty much killed the opium industry.

    When the media shouts about how horrible the Taliban is and how “the good guys” are fleeing, that’s enough for me to have serious doubts.

    But I’m open to different views. I would really like to hear from someone from that part of the world.

  124. Anon[295] • Disclaimer says:
    @TKK

    “ When the American Military was in Afghanistan, the Taliban were on their knees. Many were fighting for “ISIS” or “Al Queda”- different flavors of the same Islamic Caliphate. There is no discernible different in these primitive, barbaric terrorists.”

    Teach yourself few more lies , distortions , and and the thought what the imagined world would ahve looked like in real life .

    Getting kicked in the butt hurts and it hurts more when you do not know who your enemy is .
    Is it Bush -Cheney gang ? Did they ,in the final analysis harm USA? Did AlQuaoda really dupe and lure America to the grave ?
    Did Ghani come to earn the money that he couldn’t in the world bank ?
    Did the Blackwater milk with no regard for accountability?
    Did any of these thugs even ever consider doing anything for the country ? I mean America .

    Did all of them forget to do the cost analysis on 12 th September 2001 ?

    It seems in the process , Taliban learned and improved while USA thought that it could print money , bribe the vassals , pollute the media ,coerce the citizen at home and abroad , locate new places for wars and thought would keep on enjoying the fruits of
    deceptions .

    Is there any difference between the fate of the gun boat diplomacy of the Britain and the sky based terror of USA?
    No, both barbarism were shown the grave to rest .
    Did Taliban hide in the cave and seek sanctuary ?
    Did America hide in the bases outside Afghanistan? Did America use the sky the way Taliban use the difficult terrain ?
    It seems to be the case .

    Did America start believing in its own linguistic troll and double speak centering on woman , girl, education when that decaying country itself can’t provide protection, safety , health care , freedom from domestic violence or abuse by sex traffickers or oral contraceptives or protect the kids from predatory drug peddling and engage in those activities abroad ?

    No secular liberal language could have prevented America from staying . Only force can and again proved it can .

    By the way is ISIS cell being activated by USA again ?

  125. Mevashir says:

    Message to Afghanistan:

    You are a Muslim society. You claim your religion is superior to Christianity, that we changed the Bible, that Jesus was never crucified and rose from the dead, that your civilization is better than ours.

    So why don’t you own it? Why do you have to come begging for our political and military support and endless amounts of financial aid?

    If your religious leaders can’t get their act together to decide how Muslims should treat their women and daughters, that is not our problem. Why don’t you open your eyes and wake up to realize you’re part of a depraved religious system? And leave the rest of us in the world alone until you’re ready to acknowledge the failures and falsehoods of your faith. Stop playing on our sympathies and treating us like a bunch of suckers!

    Above all, lie about our religion and spit in the face of Jesus and the God of Israel and see what sorrow and suffering awaits you: Not 72 virgins in heaven but 72 different cases of VD HIV bubonic plague and every other horrific disease you can imagine.

    What you are suffering here now in this world is just a drop in the ocean of the pain shame and disdain that awaits you for all eternity in the afterlife. We pray you will open your eyes and cry out to the Lord God of Israel and repent. And throw off the shackles of your lying abominable false religious leaders. Get on your knees and come unto Christ. We are praying for you. Amen.

    • Replies: @Milla
  126. @TKK

    The “Afghan government” was a Potemkin village in Kabul. Who can really believe that they had 300,000 troops? The US spent 20 years carrying out “collateral murder” type operations, that was the nature of the “nation building.” ZOG-bots are human garbage like Dan Crenshaw. The idea that the US could stay another decade or two is delusional. They would be forced out. Afghanistan became a worthless base, because the Americans couldn’t control it. What would happen to the Americans there in the event of a war with Iran? I’d surmise, annihilation.

    • Replies: @notbe
  127. Angharad says:
    @El Dato

    John Kohn is a genetic jew. I believe Pelosi and Fraudci are Crypto Jews.

  128. What I will miss the most is news reports of The POTUS surreptitiously flying into Kabul to eat a Thanksgiving Turkey with our troops as a NFL game plays on a TV in the background

  129. Milla says:
    @Mevashir

    I’m not saying that the muslim way of treating women is the right one (I wouldn’t know), but they’re a hell of a lot closer to true christianity than the satanic West. Regards, a Norwegian woman

    • Replies: @Mevashir
  130. Mevashir says:
    @Milla

    I understand why you would think that. I have thought it as well. This is a picture i designed fusing the Hebrew and Arabic Divine Names:
    https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-VGJI7ukLdK0/V-VTK_w5raI/AAAAAAAAAD0/EME_6ZJ0ankn3_uz1Mf_cy56KacYLqywACLcB/s640/YaHuWAllaH.jpg

    My view is that Islam and Judascism are flip-sides of the same anti-Christ coin. Muhammed is the type of “messiah” Jews sought and for which they rejected Christ: a type of Davidic warrior king. Islam respects Jesus and Mary but denies the crucifixion and resurrection. It also distorts the Bible. Judaism preserves the Bible (Old Testament) but rejects Jesus outright as an evil false prophet. Woe to us from both movements:
    https://mevashir.home.blog/2019/12/19/korn-quran-crown-%d7%a7%d7%a8%d7%9f-%d7%a7%d7%95%d7%a8%d7%90%d7%9f-%d7%a7%d7%95%d7%a8%d7%9f/

    Islam is preferable to militant atheism. If the Taliban can reform themselves it might become a positive force. Remember before 9/11 when the Taliban sent a delegation to Texas to negotiate a huge pipeline project with Big Oil?
    https://www.ozy.com/true-and-stories/when-texas-oil-execs-courted-the-taliban/96638/
    https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-pipeline-taliban/fact-check-u-s-has-long-supported-natural-gas-pipeline-in-afghanistan-predating-keystone-xl-cancellation-idUSL1N2LM201

    • Replies: @Milla
  131. TomTom says:
    @TG

    9/11 was an inside job, (CIA, Neocons (Israel) and the military), just as was the Kennedy Assassination.

    • Agree: Mevashir
  132. Milla says:
    @Mevashir

    I agree with you. They certainly anti-christian. I met an Afghani once and when he told me about his beliefs it was a mixture of islam (I guess), hinduism, bhuddism, new age and mysticism. He was a better man than most Norwegian men I’ve met and I understood that islam is nothing for those who blieve in more than the carnal life.

    I misunderstood you. I took you for an average atheist and answered in those terms. What sorry state is the West in, when even the muslim extremist live more by The Law than we do?

    A good system can be made to look bad by pointing at a perverse version of of it. That’s how so many are being fooled to think good is bad and bad is good

    • Replies: @Mevashir
  133. Mevashir says:
    @Milla

    Agreed. Do you really think that Islam is purely carnal? The link in my previous comment is to an 800 page commentary I wrote carefully comparing the Qur’an with the Bible. Islam appears to be a combination of some scriptures, rabbinical Legends, and Gnostic Christian writings.

    I had a relative who worked as a missionary in Egypt and Jordan, and he claims that behind closed doors Muslims are very sexually depraved, heavy consumers of pornography on the internet and television.

    When I lived in Israel I had a friend who was an American raised in Norway because his father was a diplomat in Oslo. He told me he would immerse in the icy fjords in the winter. He ended up walking from Norway to Israel in a six-month Journey!

    Christopher Bollyn is a well-known American journalist who wrote a lot about 9/11 truth. His wife is Norwegian and he had to flee America and move to Norway when the American authorities started persecuting him:

    http://www.bollyn.com

  134. @some_loon

    Indeed does He say that one who does not take the shot, gets thrown in the burning pot.

    For He is the One most weary of Covid, and least patient with the Disbelievers.

    /sarc

    • LOL: Mevashir
    • Replies: @Mevashir
  135. Mevashir says:
    @Ilya G Poimandres

    I have studied the Qur’an extensively and this is a brilliant parody of its narrative voice!

    • Thanks: Ilya G Poimandres
  136. @TKK

    It isn’t really the movement at all, it is the fact that these guys showed some gravitas during this whole time and actually showed up the US in the end. Like Anglin said jokingly, we need the White Taliban here in the states. Just a group that has massive gravitas and some smarts in how to play the long game. I doubt anybody thinks this ever will come about, as we are way too soft and rather dumbed down to pull off such an endeavor. Look at the morons at Charlottesville and the Capitol. Non thinking herds!!!!

  137. voicum says:
    @TKK

    Sorry TKK…Until now i believed that nobody could be so obtuse. You proved me wrong.

  138. nickels says:

    Death to the Imperial Pigs.

  139. @TKK

    the butthurt in your comment almost makes me feel sorry for you murcans that actually believe these crazy things🤷‍♂️

  140. Skeptikal says:
    @Wokechoke

    Major handwringing on the opinion pages of the NYT today, doomsday predictions regarding the many consequences of this win/loss.

    Looks like the Taliban are smart enough not to give Western Neocons the bloodbath and retribution they want to see (and use for future propaganda) in Afghanistan.

    IT makes sense to keep all of those who worked for the Americans in-country, unharmed, because they surely do have valuable skills to contribute, in languages, communications, teaching, etc.

    The same goes for women who have acquired
    skills.
    .

  141. Skeptikal says:
    @WingsofADove

    ” The propaganda frame is ‘The cowardly/inept Afghan Army ran away’. This provides a scapegoat, as clearly seen in Biden’s speech.”

    That certainly was the thrust of Biden’s speech.

    Basically he said, you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink. We did everything we could for the Afghanis, but they just weren’t up to the job. (Sort of like Hitler saying the Germans had failed him)

    Of course he doesn’t go into why the USA did this for 20 years . . . I wonder whether Nord Stream 2 has something to do with abandoning pipeline plans in Afghanistan.

    But, yeah, it is a strategic retreat, and the doomsayers such as Bret Stephens and Tom Friedman in the NYT either are not in on the deal, or are, but are making the right sounds to misdirect attention away from the real game.

    Afg was no longer worth the trouble militarily. Major PR problem.

  142. lydia says:
    @Wokechoke

    Pentagon increases estimates for Afghanistan evacuations, 82nd Airborne to command airport security
    BY COREY DICKSTEIN• STARS AND STRIPES • AUGUST 17, 2021

    https://www.stripes.com/theaters/us/2021-08-17/afghanistan-airport-military-security-evacuations-kabul-pentagon-taliban-2583070.html

  143. Anonymous[354] • Disclaimer says:
    @BorisMay

    Specifically:

    The Americans invested \$ 85 billion in the government forces in Kabul and thus armed the Taliban.

    According to The Military Balance, Ashraf Ghani’s army had 40 medium T-55 and T-62 tanks, 640 MSFV armoured personnel carriers, 200 MaxxPro armoured vehicles and several thousand “Hummers”. Also, with quite serious artillery: up to 50 “Grad” rocket launchers, 85 122-millimeter D-30 howitzers and 24 155-millimeter M114A1 and with about 600 mortars. It’s all in the Taliban’s arsenal now.

    The Taliban also received aviation as a “gift”: 22 EMB-314 Super Tucano attack planes, four C-130H Hercules transport planes, 24 light Cessna 208Bs and 18 turboprop PC-12s. To this should be added six Mi-35 attack helicopters, 76 military transport Mi-17, 41 light MD-530F and up to 30 multi-role UH-60A Black Hawk.

    None of this was attempted to disable the puppet government units in Kabul. They completely – without firing a bullet – crossed over to the side of the Taliban. Even the “pride of the Americans” – a special unit “Host” with 6000 commandos.

  144. profnasty says:
    @Anonymous

    We have troops on our southern border. They’re helping the New Americans settle in to old American towns.
    Forward march!

  145. One-off says:
    @Anonymous

    The Deep State would assassinate Biden if he did even one of those things. I’m just waiting to see which country is the first to expel a United States base; my guess is one repelled by something like Drag Queen Story Hour, IOW, a normal country now occupied. It could be anywhere from Poland to another Muslim nation.

    Once one forces a US base out it will start a cascade of expulsions. So, in a sense, the bases become proxies for Judeo-Bolshevik perverts and experience what has happened everywhere they polluted with their presence.

    The West should realize now that the sickness and degradation it has allowed to corrupt its once great culture is reviled, and begin to clean up its act for its own people let alone the majority of the world.

    • Replies: @Adûnâi
  146. @Donald A Thomson

    From Washington’s perspective, the prospect of stability breaking-out in Afghanistan is terrifying because it’ll undermine their excuse that Afghanistan is ungovernable, and worse, US businesses won’t be the primary beneficiaries.

    To avoid the horror of peace, I’m guessing that a cargo plane filled with cash, guns and ammo has already been dispatched to some Afghan warlord who will soon be discovered by the media to be a previously unknown lover of democracy, LGBT rights, women’s rights and university education for every girl before she marries her lesbian partner.

    • Agree: nokangaroos
    • Replies: @Wokechoke
  147. Shamil says:

    “Ali Ahmad Jalali, a former minister of internal affairs who was also, in the past, an employee of Voice of America.”

    He has denied this in a tweet. This guy was corrupt and inept. No way the Taliban will give him anything.

  148. KA says:

    BoJO wants to impose sanctions. He is looking for reasons . Rest assured,it willbe provdied .
    USA is also thinking that threat of sanctiins should always be allowed to hover around in the backdrop and be allowed to make periodic appearances . BBC is reporting also that US has 1 billion worth of gold in NY that belongs to Afghainstan.

    Dont forget that 4 star general has expressed the polciy framework to follow before to BBC – Civil war is preferable to Taliban rule .

    The animosity between the two- US/ UK and Takiban is just starting and it is blowing from the cesspool of DC and City of London .
    American interventions, polcies and aggression , verbal or physical – all are hoped earnestly by the military and geared to the expectations of the careers lobbyists ,and mercenaries .
    Shedding blood is least of the moral handicaps they are hamstrung with.

    Here is Douglas Macgregor ( Trump administratiin ) –

    “Make no mistake, the US military will continue to thrive after Afghanistan
    There are too many careers and too much money tied to American power projection. So expect it to shift, not recede from the stage.

    …suggest the intelligence agencies, the defense industries, and numerous supporting contracting entities including mercenaries to create “other than U.S. forces” for foreign internal defense and development. ”

    https://responsiblestatecraft.org/2021/08/16/make-no-mistake-the-us-military-will-continue-to-thrive-after-afghanistan/

    Its no woder these mercenaries will soon be looking for job.

    “As U.S. troops withdraw, many contract employees – most of them from poor countries, including Nepal – are leaving Afghanistan and fanning out around the world.”
    The Diplomat doesnt fail to notice-“Some of the guys from my company are trying to get jobs with contractors in Iraq now,” says Shrestha. Other TCNs are looking for work with the militaries of Gulf countries reliant on contracted private security, or in oil refineries in West Africa, or in casinos in China, or with shadowy firms in Syria.

    Recent reports suggest that private security contractors from Latin America were unwittingly recruited to assist in the assassination of Haitian President Jovenel Moïse”

    https://thediplomat.com/2021/08/searching-for-the-next-war-what-happens-when-contractors-leave-afghanistan/

    “The Hawks still circle and screech .The voices from the past 20 years who prodded us forward into battle return to the evening news to sell us on staying . “”Its not too late”” ,the former generals,secretaries and ambassadors say .” More troops can hold the line .Victory is just around the corner ” – NYTimes 2021/08/16 The article boldly syas the unthinkable -“those presidnets and memebrs of Congress to mislead and mismanage us to defeat ”

    This war is not over because it is not over for war lovers – UK and USA .

    • Replies: @Arthur MacBride
  149. GenFranco says:
    @Dodge City Pete

    The modern Catholic Church is not nearly that competent.

  150. notbe says:
    @The artist formerly known as a young man

    yes it is bizarre that the us planned a vietnam for the ussr but in the end got another vietnam for itself-stupidity yes and weirdly enough, if a time traveller shoved up at the white house in 1980 or in 2001 to warn he would be kicked out-tbecause “That’s how clever they are. Real strategists, those ones”

    people speculate why there is a great silence in the universe, why no evidence of advanced civilizations-well perhaps at some point advanced civilizations get neocon types in charge…rigidly following their urges, never changing and then they cease to exist

  151. notbe says:
    @GazaPlanet

    but the thing is that in 20 years and for a trillion dollars you should get a functional army, need not be a great army but an army with at least a somewhat competent officer corps, somewhat able NCOs and experienced soldiers The soviets achieved it, after all the communist Afghan army did quite well after the soviets left-and for much less money and in a shorter period of time

    the south vietnamese army also did not do so bad compared to the ANA-they did last for at least three years and there was resistance even during the final collapse

    if the americans and nato couldnt build up a functional afghan army in 20 years and for a trillion-its not really the fault of the afghans but of the americans and nato-the americans and nato were basically incompetent, they should have trained a much better afghan army-they had the time and money

    this might be an unpopular opinion but it blends in with the facts-in twenty years and for a trillion you should…no you must be able to get an army that is, at least, able to fight if not win If the ANA didnt do this the fault lies with the nato training syllabus and with nato tactics

    Military wise, it basically looks like nato and the US are actually extremely incompetent-what was shown of their intelligence work…that kabul will last three months etc…leaves a lot to be desired-and mind you military intelligence often has the most competent officers-the rest of any army is dependent on good field intelligence

    If military intelligence is that bad, I shutter to think how bad the rest of the NATO military force might be like-remember the only chaos in kabul right now is at the american controlled airport-just pray it doesnt come down to a shooting war with the russians or chinese

    • Replies: @Zarathustra
    , @Ed Case
  152. notbe says:
    @Sarah

    the saigon one on right is a sea knight-one wheel at front two in back
    the kabul one is the chinook four wheels at corners
    similar looking but chinook is much heavier

    • Agree: Sarah
    • Thanks: notbe
  153. @Unit472

    Afghanistan has trillions in unrealized mineral wealth, including lithium and rare earth metals, the most important mineral resources of the 21st Century. China is already signaling its interests in mining and processing to the presumptive Taliban govt.

  154. Wokechoke says:
    @Marshal Marlow

    Yes he’s a graduate of Sandhurst a son of Shah Masoud.

  155. @KA

    Agree that FUKUS will try ongoing destabilisation in Afghan (as in Syria/other countries). It becomes clearer that this is effectively their only global policy. China said briefly and correctly that USA had left “a mess” there, country littered with unexploded ordinance, hundreds of thousands killed … while running Heroin …

    But it’s a long reach to a country surrounded by neighbours with vested interests in its success, and for powers that are now fading. Possibly the next ejection will be Iraq, where Uncle Shmuel and his ISIS proxies continue to kill Iraqi’s.

    Since the zionist Mad Dog seems by nature unable to act other than as a murderous Crime Cartel, its ongoing evil may be directed to nearer targets in Las Americas like Cuba and Vz. As its internal situation deteriorates further, there is the question of how much longer its citizens will tolerate their own destruction for Israel.

    So there is also the possibility of Repentance, but that seems remote for pedophile satanist aptly named GloboHomo.

  156. KA says:


    The 19-year-old war in Afghanistan needs to end because the United States stopped trying to secure a decisive victory years ago, President Donald Trump tweeted recently.

    But Osama bin Laden and his al Qaeda fighters were able to escape from their fortress at Tora Bora. Retired Gen. James Mattis would later write in his memoirs that the head of U.S. Central Command at the time had refused to send infantry troops and special operators to seal off bin Laden’s escape route.

    The Washington Post revealed last year that U.S. government officials had for years privately acknowledged the war was failing while publicly citing progress in Afghanistan.”

    https://taskandpurpose.com/news/trump-afghanistan-victory-tweets/

  157. @Skeptikal

    Yesterday on Twitter there was some character posting three random shots of Afghan crowds at a football stadium claiming that they were watching Taliban conducting executions at a cricket stadium. No photo of alleged “executions”, of course, but the majority of replies swallowed the accusation without question.

    Today on WhatsApp I got forwarded a 6 year old video of Al Qaeda executing a woman in Idlib after accusing her of adultery, claiming that it was a video of Taliban executing a woman for baring her face. Again the responses swallowed the accusation without question.

  158. @aandrews

    This is “invade their countries, kill their leaders, and convert them to Christianity” Coulter? Did she get some kind of epiphany?

    • Replies: @GomezAdddams
    , @Smith
  159. arami says:

    imperialists over Afghan women but are they going to speak about Syrian women under Al-Qaeda rule in Idlib? The experience tells us they will side with Al-Nusra against the SAA.

    Why people do not scream imperialists and zionist out of SYRIA. Down with enemy of Syrian people.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E9D_Dn7XEAMnzOn?format=jpg

    Get out NOW

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E9D_DfaX0AQRrBd?format=jpg

    • Agree: GomezAdddams
    • Replies: @Adûnâi
  160. @Dodge City Pete

    John Kerry’s brother has once responded to charges of anti Semitism against John Kerry by conservative Israelis by writing about the family’s Jewish roots ( Hasidic Jews). In 2003, John Kerry said it was a revelation when he learned shortly before he ran for president that his grandfather changed his family name from Kohn and converted to Catholicism before immigrating to the US in 1905; go figure!

    Well, Madeleine Albright ‘ it was worth it’ was also a pseudo Catholic. As for the rest of the bunch, they might be as Catholic as the current Pope.

  161. Agent76 says:

    August 17, 2021 In the Tradition of U.S. Puppets, When They Finally Get Kicked Out, They Steal as Much of the Country’s Treasure as They Can

    The Russian embassy in Kabul reported on Monday that Afghan President Ashraf Ghani fled Afghanistan with four vehicles and a helicopter full of cash as the Taliban took control of Kabul.

    https://covertactionmagazine.com/2021/08/17/in-the-tradition-of-u-s-puppets-when-they-finally-get-kicked-out-they-steal-as-much-of-the-countrys-treasure-as-they-can/

  162. Interesting insights into the current UK shock in parliament atm.

    Also interesting to hear the speaker’s views of terrible regimes — almost thought he was recounting the Brisitsh empire and the millions lost in India and other colonies etc. He’s rattled. Something deep in the psyche is going on in the crumbling Anglosphere.

    https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/latenightlive/ian-dunts-britain/13501824 [12 min]

    I then tuned into the UK parliament live. About 5 minutes is all I could handle of angry loser UK colonialist rhetoric way past their empire bedtime. Venting to counter rage in the armed forces for being used as stooges for 20 years, imo. They are rattled it seems — especially the USA’s ignoring of ‘little britian’ in the decision making is worse than their 2nd or is it 3rd retreat from Afghanistan. Now it’s suddenly all about women. I wonder what the Irish think of all this English bluster? Could little “Air Strip One” be suddenly hyperventilating about what their “BREXIT” now really means post-post-empire?

  163. Decoy says:

    Milley and Austin are the poster boys for the people you described well. Notice how you haven’t seen either one since the “exit” began? Both of these guys are too busy planting stories among friends in the media about what they wanted do, and the advise they gave Biden, and how everything would have turned out well if their advise had been followed. Under the circumstances, the the news media and the Deep Staters might be willing to throw Biden under the bus, but the Deep Staters are not going to turn on each other.

  164. Pepe called it, he said the Saigon moment looms. Damn was he right, it was Saigon on roids.

    • Agree: GomezAdddams
  165. I won’t believe that US evacuation was so dire that it had to leave behind drones and helicopters, which were promptly captured by the Taliban.

  166. Decoy says:

    Almost everyone does agree with Biden that we needed to exit Afghanistan. That is not the question that’s relevant. The relevant question is how do we do it? And on this matter, Biden made a number of spectacularly wrong decisions. I’ll mention just one. Abandoning the Baghram Air Base in the middle of the night without notice to the Afghans. Was that Joe’s idea or did someone actually recommend that? Milley and Austin need to get on a podium and answer some questions. The American people deserve answers and my guess is that many people in EU countries are equally interested.

    • Replies: @nokangaroos
  167. @brabantian

    But there are no atheist rulers.

  168. Anon[133] • Disclaimer says:
    @Unit472

    As soon as I read that you called them subhuman I threw up
    Are you a Nazi wannabe by any chance

  169. The commie globohome left has turned the world so upside down that the Taliban are now a Conservatives natural ally. I for one cheer for the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan. No pride flags flowing in Kabul!

    I have already done the soul searching being a “OEF” veteran. The Taliban are based and acting mature af.

    The SF gay mens choir wants to turn my kids into trannys and have sex with them. The Taliban and Sharia don’t play that sh\$t and either do I.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  170. @Wokechoke

    The Taliban are sitting on \$1 trillion worth of minerals the world desperately needs
    Julia Horowitz byline
    By Julia Horowitz, CNN Business
    “Is Julia a granddaughter of Shemp and Moe?” ( ooy yoy yoy–all that must only be for Israel and USA”—USA was there for 40 years and could have built factories-schools-hospitals but NO–1 Trillion spent on war machines and war contractors and soldiers——not successful.

  171. @Fiendly Neighbourhood Terrorist

    ” I would have nuclear bombed Afghanistan to the Stone Age and after—all would be great for USA getting those rare metals” and Commander Strangelove has been at this for the past 70 years—bomb and take —-

  172. Fur baby says:

    Fun to see the all too many news media feminists squirm… .

  173. Rdm says:

    One was the greatest nation builder among 197 countries in the world and the other was is President of one of those countries.

  174. Anon[203] • Disclaimer says:


    Implications for Islam of US defeat in Afghanistan

  175. @Rdm

    When you are in office for 4 years, or at the most 8, you do not need to focus on building up your country. You just have to kick the can down the road.

  176. @aldasfail770

    The Taliban revolted against the modern world and they won. Someone’s ghost must be smiling.

  177. Adûnâi says: • Website
    @arami

    Why would you ever support the faggy nationalist Assad over the based fundamentalist ISIS/Al-Qaeda? Is this an inexplicable part of the whiteboi psychology? The same as calling Brenton Tarrant Zionist, because he’s too radical and bad for optics?

    Regarding Afghanistan’s Taliban, if truly united under an incarnated god of a prince, it might be in a similar position to Juche Korea – a shrimp playing the geopolitical whales, featuring a fanatical religious faith, with mineral and drug exports funding the treasury.

    Obviously, nobody aside from a hypothetical Hitlerian America can squash the mountain bugs – for the time being. But Hitler wasn’t President of the USA, so the USA tried to defeat the Taliban by licking their genitals, which only pleasured them. And the Chinese are still too weak to genocide the bug[ger]s.

    • Replies: @mulga mumblebrain
  178. @Decoy

    Clearly they didn´t trust their heroic allies (who “refused to fight for themselves”)
    as far as they could throw them; echoes of Vietnam all over again.
    It was clear the optics would be disastrous – to the public, the ANA and other “allies”
    (in ascending order of importance) so I doubt it was Joe´s idea.

    As for the overall blunder the JCS probably dragged their feet until Orange Man
    was gone then dragged them some more – meaning they had assurances from
    On High the stew wouldn´t be eaten as hot as it was cooked
    (alternatively they may just be too stupid to organize an evacuation).

    I wouldn´t make too much of the gear left behind – within a year the only things still running will be the Toyotas and maybe a few Mi-17.

  179. Adûnâi says: • Website
    @One-off

    > “It could be anywhere from Poland to another Muslim nation.”

    Poland is the most pro-American country in the world, mate. How else are they going to cut out a tongue out of a Belarussian journalist’s mouth?
    https://www.mk.ru/politics/2021/07/02/lukashenko-zayavil-o-pokushenii-na-zhurnalista-azarenka-khoteli-otrezat-yazyk.html

    > “…proxies for Judeo-Bolshevik perverts…”

    The Warsaw Pact was the last Aryan racial force in the world. Was sold out for laced panties by the cheap whiteboi whores in 1991 without a shot fired. Muh’ fart of change.

  180. Smith says:


    On other news, I didn’t know Islam chant in japanese sounds so freaking good.

    Maybe I should check the Vietnamese version.

  181. Che Guava says:
    @BDS Always

    Anyone ever hear of Stockholm syndrome?

    She is also old and portly.

  182. Malla says:
    @A Half Naked Fakir

    And that would be a good thing for us. Lets just keep quite and enjoy the show.
    Or maybe China is getting involved in places which it might regret later. What we have gotta do is keep quite in the long run and build our strengths.

  183. Rdm says:
    @A Half Naked Fakir

    Indians trying to migrate to Singapore with fake vaccine card and Indian Singaporeans standing up to those without care to health code.

    https://singaporeuncensored.com/syndicate-sells-covid-negative-test-result-for-6-on-the-streets-in-india/

    • Replies: @A Half Naked Fakir
  184. Ron Paul Predicted the Afghan Debacle Ten Years Ago:

    • Replies: @mulga mumblebrain
  185. Druid55 says:
    @CelestiaQuesta

    Yup, and we decapitate and maul people with drones and jets. In larger numbers

  186. windship says:

    “Experts” are now worried the Afghanistan withdrawal may lead to the spread of global terrorism, now that the terrorists are no longer tied up with the task of occupying Afghanistan. No doubt!

    For years, the same experts have been trying to understand how dropping military explosives on innocent people could fail to advance humanitarian aims. Media usually attempts to shed some light on this mystery by asking an employee of a think tank that’s funded by arms manufacturers.

    We will know we are moving toward a healthier society when those who promote war and militarism are not rewarded with esteemed political, media and government careers, but chased out of every public area they try to enter and forced to live out their remaining days in lonely misery.

    It’s clear that these “experts” will be spinning the narrative that the Afghanistan withdrawal was a terrible mistake in every way possible over the coming months in an attempt to discredit opponents of US interventionism on both sides of the aisle.

    But another grand opera like 9/11 will work better. Any guesses where this time?

  187. @Rdm

    And exactly how does your retort relate to what I had posed?

    • Replies: @Rdm
  188. @notbe

    Army also needs politico-religious training. Ergo persuasion for what to fight.
    Americans totally neglected that.
    Stupid is stupid does.

  189. lydia says:

    https://www.persecution.org/2021/08/09/uncertain-fate-afghanistans-christians/
    Uncertain Fate for Afghanistan’s Christians
    08/09/2021 Afghanistan (International Christian Concern) – As cities fall to a Taliban resurgence in Afghanistan, the future of that country’s Christian population grows more uncertain. The US troop withdrawal has increased a climate of insecurity in the country and US-backed Afghan forces are struggling to contain the Taliban’s advance.

    Afghanistan’s Christians are already mostly underground. The country has only one Catholic church, tucked away in the Italian embassy, and even that closed in response to the pandemic. The 2004 constitution of Afghanistan severely limits religious freedom, forbidding the open preaching of the gospel and restricting conversion to Christianity.

    Due to the spreading insecurity, the likelihood of a civil war in the already war-torn country is growing more and more likely. The Christian community has never been welcomed in the country and now is feeling even more threatened as the US troop withdrawal peels back another layer of stability and security.

    Whatever the structure of the Church inside Afghanistan, if the Taliban fully assumes control, the Afghan church will face a difficult road. Women’s rights, which have increased over the years, will likely be rolled back and the investment of nearly \$1 trillion in the 20-year long conflict will have little to show in terms of sustainable development and progress

    • Replies: @Ray Caruso
  190. anon[206] • Disclaimer says:

    Seeing how the mightiest nation on earth has been brought to it’s knees through attrition by a small group of dedicated fighters that are tied together by blood and religion, it’s reassuring to realize that the US government really isn’t that strong, they have the aura of invincibility by showing their big ships, big planes and through constant press releases saying that the FBI has infiltrated this group or that group and that they have a list of 2 million on their no fly list etc. Things like this keep Bubba from getting out of line because he fears the FBI and other agencies have the goods on him. If there were a guerilla group like the Taliban, with ties of blood and religion, sworn to a code of Omerta, willing to die for their cause and almost impossible to track because they blend into society, but don’t use credit cards, or other means and have their own supply networks, they would be virtually impossible to stop and would win by a war of attrition.

    • Replies: @Malla
  191. @Wokechoke

    I hear that the Talib are throwing babies out of humidicribs. Fair do-it was the BBC, or CNN, or Radio Free Asia. Some organ of the ‘Free World’, I swear.

    • Replies: @Alden
  192. @Truth Vigilante

    The ‘debacle’ started forty plus years ago when the USA decided to use atavistic Wahhabist thugs to undermine a state on the USSR’s borders. This is just the latest phase.

  193. @Adûnâi

    How’s the weather in Jerusalem. You need to get out of the yeshiva basement, Curley Locks. The foetid air seems to have gotten to you.

  194. Malla says:
    @anon

    The Taliban had support and funding from Pakistani secret services ISI.

    • Replies: @littlereddot
  195. @Malla

    And where did ISI get their funding and support from?

    • Replies: @Malla
  196. Anon62 says:
    @Anon62

    The essay found at the following link provides an excellent analysis of the rise of the Taliba:

    https://annebonnypirate.org/2021/08/17/afghanistan-the-end-of-the-occupation/

  197. anonymous[437] • Disclaimer says:
    @brabantian

    It hurts our cause when you paste fake shit from 4chan that makes us look stupid.

  198. anonymous[377] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ocko

    That isn’t Israel’s problem.

    Its problem is that it lost its asabiya due to not having any mortal enemies for two generations.

    The Prime Minister of Israel is a fanatically orthodox jew who lives in the west bank yet his government includes nonjews. In fact most political parties in Israel include nonjews. But His government includes a non-jewish party. Of Arabs. Who are Muslim. Islamists.

    I myself am not a muslim islamist. Nor am I a Jew.

    I am a (nominal) Christian born in Ramallah to Christian Israeli parents from Jerusalem. So I’m not talking out of my ass.

    Despite my own lack of certainty that Christ was born from a virgin and grants me an eternal afterlife (though I wish I did have that certainty), I am regarded in Israel and Palestine (meaning Gaza and various disconnected cities in the west bank, including Ramallah) as a Christian.

    Happily in the UK where I am working on my phd in international diplomacy nobody really gives a shit except inasmuch as how it defines me to the various peoples in the non-western world.

    So if it were up to me The West would win.

    I am pleased about all of Britain’s colonial efforts. Colonizing North America, Australia and India made my current life possible.

    I wish Americans had more confidence in their way of life and values AND LANGUAGE and colonized as many other places as they could. And when those places reached certain benchmarks they were added to the union.

    But this is a pipe dream.

    [MORE]

    In fact American confidence is going where British confidence went in the first half of the twentieth century.

    Back to Israel.

    I am not a zionist.

    Zionism implicitly excludes ME. Any man against himself is a slave and deserves to be treated as one.

    But I am pleased as punch that the British colonized Palestine and….created what we call the state of Israel.

    You don’t need to be a zionist to thank God that you are a citizen of Israel rather than a subject of Jordan, a slave of Sisi, or at the whim of whichever motherfucker in Syria is the most violent that day.

    It bothers me tremendously that Israel has lost its confidence.

    Am I regarded as a fourth class citizen in Israel? No. I am regarded as akin to the sephardic majority. You heard of President Katzav? They humiliated him – and the rest of us non elite – by hitting him with bullshit sexual misconduct charges. Every people in power do that. It’s much more effective to call your enemy a pedophile than a “non-elite outsider who got too big for his briches”.

    Israel may or may not crumble. My brothers and sisters live in Jerusalem. They all fly Palestinian flags.

    You know why? Because we fear that the Palestinians will end up winning.

    We all vote. Every single one of us. (Though I missed the last two and was too lazy to get my mail in ballot.) And we all vote for jewish parties.

    Because we pray that they win. Inshallah!

    But because Israel has had no real mortal enemy since the Begin Government (before I was born) made peace with Egypt (the only real danger) and bombed Saddam’s nuclear reactor Israelis have had two generations of decadence.

    And now they have no asaabiya left (outside of the technology sector – every one of whom would convert to Islam if sternly asked).

    That’s why my sisters fly Palestinian flags.

    Because the Jews won’t fight any actually dangerous wars at all. They even stopped trying to control the parasite chareidim and just drown them with money to make more and more stone aged morons.

    The Chareidim have asaabiya but they have what we call a “galut mentality” and are still waiting for someone – anyone – to surrender to for any reason. So long as those people are not western type jews.

    That’s enough of a rant from me. Suffice it to say that I, AND EVERY SINGLE ISRAELI CHRISTIAN OR MUSLIM, support the continuation of the western, tolerant, state of Israel.

    I don’t plan to work in my own region because I am too emotional about it to do so effectively. And because I have no choice (I know you won’t understand this) but to publicly shout for Palestine while privately, with my own people and now with Muslim Israelis I meet abroad, hope and wish and vote that apathetic individualistic Israel not be conquered by barbarian animal fuckers.

  199. anonymous[412] • Disclaimer says:
    @gotmituns

    Indeed. The only thing the western mommies are willing to fight for is enforced “public safety” measures.

    It’s bitterly funny to me watching all these “community” centric people attack communism. What the hell do they think communism means? It’s about anti-individualistic “community first” programs.

    [MORE]

    And the christian mommies are all in on it as much as the park slope Hillary Suckers.

    There is nothing those twitter mommies won’t impose on them.

    I mentioned before that I am an Israeli citizen (christian and non-zionist but privately supportive of Israel over Palestine) working on a PhD in Cambridge.

    Did you know that the group MOST LIKELY TO BE UNVAXXED is PhDs?

    It’s true.

    I’m 26 and in no real danger of dying from the wuhan cold so why the fuck would I take an experimental vaccination?

    But until I do I can not go home. My parents tell me that in their day, 30 or 40 years ago it would have been inpossible to get the israeli jews to wear masks. Even the mothers would oppose it.

    But that’s what happens in safe countries. They surrender to their women in terror and agree to whatever stupid communistic demand their women demand so that their little treasures will live forever.

    If your hatred of jews surpasses your support for western individualism then you will be happy to know that the jews in Israel have no confidence left in themselves.

    Personally I hate it. And I swear that if my home in jerusalem is ever given over to Palestine I will never go home again.

    Why don’t I join the Israeli army and fight? LOL

    I would if there was any reason to. I would fuckin convert to judaism if the Israeli jews of today were like the Jews of 40 or 50 years ago.

    But they’re not.

    So should I start my own Christian (agnostic) army?

    Yeah right. The entire western world would condemn us as crusaders.

    You know they would.

    They’ll support palestinian animals who torture their political prisoners. Every LGBTHIV+ organisation shouts their tranny slogans for a palestine that murders anyone they like, with no concern for even the slightest amount of civil rights.

    Fuck them.

    Let them move to Gaza if they care so much.

    Oh, and in Gaza the regular people are not wearing masks. Even THEY wore masks during the stupid lockdown last year. But not since then. Except when they go to the border to play with the Israeli soldiers. In fact that’s the only fun thing they can do in gaza.

    Feminism wrought Faucism upon the world.

    You can tell who the winners are. They are the people not afraid to show their faces and whose terror of their wives remains in the home but not in public life.

    To my own detriment that is not Israel. The land of some of the shrillest metoo feminists on earth.

    Are any of you Christians? Or even Western Individualists?

    Where are your people demanding the human right not to wear a mask or to be vaccinated against your will?

    I was at the London Protest. Everyone on twitter was so proud of us. But how many were we?

    We were loud but politically we were a joke. We should have had millions instead we had a few thousand who fled as soon as they were told to.

    I would happily join any protest in Israel. But if I appeared in any photograph I would be in deep shit back home for joining the jews. Sure we all VOTE for the Jews but we are a minority christian community in the middle east and we have less than zero support from ANYONE in the west. LEAST of all from Christians!

    So if fucking goat fucking “palestine” take over our area we will be branded as traitors and thrown from the roof. That’s why I can never protest FOR MY OWN RIGHTS in Israel.

    But here in the UK I can protest and I do.

    I am not ashamed of my face or facial expressions.

    I will not wear a mask no matter how many women and henpecked castrated men tell me too.

    And I will not go home to Jerusalem for as long as they are faucist vaccination enforcers.

  200. Malla says:
    @littlereddot

    From the Pakistani Government which is today a vassal state of PR China. it was the vassal state of the USA once.

    • Replies: @littlereddot
  201. Rdm says:
    @A Half Naked Fakir

    If you have an IQ with triple digits, you’d see why.

    People with 2 digits only see one chapter ahead.
    Those with triple can see many ahead.
    Those in the upper band can see miles ahead.

    Singapore was founded without any natural resources but heavily relied on human skillset and intelligence. Yea. all the Chinese coolies and Singapore was even joked as toilet water drinking nation. The country was labeled as mercantilist bourgeois nation. There are many Indians/Vietnamese/Indonesians/ you name it, using the country as a stepping stone to migrate. When it comes to food on the table, many are willing to fake/cheat/steal at any cost. That’s the bottom line, my friend.

    That’s what happening with Pakistan as well. I’m seeing Indians jealous of their brethrens getting favorable treatment from their northeastern neighbor and shitting Paki like there’s no tomorrow.

    Recent attack at southern border in Pakistan by a suicide bomber killed two kids and Indians are jumping in delight. Indians don’t know what they’re doing.

    Pakistan has their homegrown fighter jets. But Indians are trashing PAF like their overpaid Rafale will drown JF17 at any minutes. It’s so overpriced that Egypt is now getting half the price of Indian with an equivalent number of Rafale jets. You know an extra 3 billions (USD) can build the nation infrastructure. (I was really inclined to take a dig at notorious Indian’s infrastructure, but I tamed my urge here.) Why are Indians so proud of pseudo things and keep trashing on Pakistan?

    There are two countries that LKY has serious doubt on dramatic progress in coming centuries. One is Malaysia and the other one is …. India.

    • Replies: @A Half Naked Fakir
    , @Malla
  202. Jeff M says:

    “Geopolitically, what matters now is how the Taliban have written a whole new script, showing the lands of Islam, as well as the Global South, how to defeat the self-referential, seemingly invincible US/NATO empire.”

    Not so fast: https://thediplomat.com/2021/08/is-the-panjshir-valley-the-talibans-achilles-heel/

  203. Ed Case says:
    @anon

    The Yanks were there to build a Gas Pipeline thru Pakistan and steal Afghanistan’s Gas.
    To secure that pipeline the U.S. needed to create a fake Taliban from scratch and arm it, which took 20 years.
    Mission accomplished.

  204. Ed Case says:
    @notbe

    From memory, some NATO Forces left early, the Dutch?
    The entire 20 years sounds like a Cointelpro, similar to what happened in the U.S. in the 1960s when the FBI was assassinating potential Black leaders.
    I’d say they’ve done the same in Afghanistan and Taliban 2.0 is well trained controlled opposition.

    • Replies: @notbe
  205. Alden says:
    @mulga mumblebrain

    I hear the Taliban are using babies for bayonet practice; just as the Germans did In Belgium during WW1. The mothers are forced to watch the slaughter of the babies. But in compliance with Sharia law, the mothers are shrouded from head to foot and chaperoned by husbands or other male family members while watching the spectacle.

  206. @George Kovachev

    Despite being involved in multiple conflicts around the world, the US military hasn’t won a war since helping to defeat Germany and Japan in World War II, although even then the USSR played a major role in both the European and Pacific theaters of operation. And yet you and others have an unshakable faith in the US military. Your argument is, “They could win if they wanted to!” or “They could win if the politicians would let them!” Not coincidentally, the losing streak started once the US military was “integrated”, first by (low-IQ and largely disloyal) blacks and then by women, homosexuals, and finally trannies. While that may never have been the immediate cause of US failure, the truth of the matter is that a military force that is concerned with political correctness is unlikely to defeat one that is purely concerned with victory and that is fighting on its home soil against rightfully despised foreigners.

    Therefore, the thesis that the US military would win if they were willing to act ruthlessly and were given permission to do so by liberal politicians (and all American politicians are liberals, without exception) is invalid because such a scenario only exists in a fantasy world. The only opponent the US military would be allowed to go after full-on would be White nationalist insurgents at home, but as liberal ideology and corruption continue to corrode US military power, the day will come when that will no longer mean much. The question is whether the deliberately engineered opioid epidemic and trannyism will spare enough young White men in the US to allow such an insurgency to form.

  207. @lydia

    Christianity was already effectively banned before the Taliban takeover, so no great loss, especially since any conversions would likely be to heretical and asinine “evangelical” Protestantism. As for feminism, good.

  208. @Malla

    Dont obfuscate. We are talking about creation of the Taliban.

    And I repeat. Where did the ISI get funding at the time the Taliban was being created?

    From the original issue

    Seeing how the mightiest nation on earth has been brought to it’s knees through attrition by a small group of dedicated fighters that are tied together by blood and religion, it’s reassuring to realize that the US government really isn’t that strong, they have the aura of invincibility by showing their big ships, big planes and through constant press releases saying that the FBI has infiltrated this group or that group and that they have a list of 2 million on their no fly list etc. Things like this keep Bubba from getting out of line because he fears the FBI and other agencies have the goods on him. If there were a guerilla group like the Taliban, with ties of blood and religion, sworn to a code of Omerta, willing to die for their cause and almost impossible to track because they blend into society, but don’t use credit cards, or other means and have their own supply networks, they would be virtually impossible to stop and would win by a war of attrition.

    • Replies: @Malla
  209. Malla says:
    @littlereddot

    Dont obfuscate. We are talking about creation of the Taliban.

    Obfuscate? me? Bitch go through the comment chain we had, where do I specify about the creation of the Taliban? Don’t act too smart.
    And if you are alluring to possible American CIA involvement in their creation, the Pakistani Government’s hand in that cannot be downplayed. The ISI was extremely pally pally with the CIA for a logn time. They are not completely innocent. And the fact remains that Pakistan (with the same deep state, with the same ISI) is a Chinese vassal now like it was of the USA once upon a time.

    • Replies: @littlereddot
  210. @Rdm

    Once again, what does even longer tirade have to do with my post, genius? I am going to assume that you are assuming I am Indian (hence your tripe), so I will assume you’re either a paki or chinaman. It’s par for the course!

  211. Malla says:
    @Rdm

    There are many Indians/Vietnamese/Indonesians/ you name it, using the country as a stepping stone to migrate. When it comes to food on the table, many are willing to fake/cheat/steal at any cost.

    And Chinese people never migrated anywhere?

    I’m seeing Indians jealous of their brethrens getting favorable treatment from their northeastern neighbor and shitting Paki like there’s no tomorrow.

    Trust me, No Indian is jealous of Pakistan for getting closer to China. LOL. Most Indians would wish both China and Pakistan would magically move far away, maybe next to the USA, so they could bash out each other and leave India in peace.. Indians believe (rightly or wrongly, in my personal opinion wrongly) that both “these snakes will eventually bite each other out”. Indians are just concerned that two of its enemies are coming closer to each other. Just like China is concerned about QUAD.

    Recent attack at southern border in Pakistan by a suicide bomber killed two kids and Indians are jumping in delight. Indians don’t know what they’re doing. Pakistan has their homegrown fighter jets. But Indians are trashing PAF like their overpaid Rafale will drown JF17 at any minutes.

    Dude, both India and Pakistan are enemies and jump with joy at the misfortune of each other. But within limits. Both sides make fun of each other’s military inventory and their fighting abilities. Pakistan is the country which is accused by Indians which harbours terrorists who target Indian soldiers.

    This is the emotions BOTH sides have with each other. Both sides.

    There are two countries that LKY has serious doubt on dramatic progress in coming centuries. One is Malaysia and the other one is …. India.

    Hmmmm
    “Useless lazy” Malaysia GDP PPP per capita 28,830 dollars Vs
    “Heavenly Middle Kingdom”PR China (not the ROC), GDP PPP per capita 16,790 dollars. Hmmmmmm
    “Low IQ Sepoy” India GDP PPP per capita 6290 dollars Vs
    “High IQ (LOL) China’s friend, friendship taller than mountain deeper than ocean …two sharks swimming together in the ocean….whatever” Pakistan GDP PPP per capita 4,800 dollars. Hmmmm

    I am confused and sheet….

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @antibeast
  212. notbe says:
    @Ed Case

    hmmm perhaps but given the huge cultural differences between us and the afghanis it would be hard for a layman to discover the truth unless he visited, lived among them, and had access to actual decision makers

  213. Anonymous[331] • Disclaimer says:
    @Malla

    “Useless lazy” Malaysia GDP PPP per capita 28,830 dollars Vs
    “Heavenly Middle Kingdom”PR China (not the ROC), GDP PPP per capita 16,790 dollars. Hmmmmmm

    I believe when LKY said that, Malaysia had been stuck in the “middle income trap” already for DECADES – really since the early 1970s. At the time of the statement, Malaysia had many multiples of China’s per capita PPP GDP (around \$3,000 at the time).

    Today, Malaysia has grown to some \$27,000, and China to between \$18,000 to \$19,000 (both nations’ figures depending on how you figure their respective production “baskets”, as it were).

    So, indeed while Malaysia is currently ahead of China, it seems they are growing rather slowly, while China is racing ahead.

    Time will tell if China also falls into the “middle income trap for many decades” – surely an outcome for which most in the Subcontinent, and the collective West, long.

  214. @aandrews

    Shariah law is not more violent or more discriminatory than the infamous Napoleon Civil code, which is one of the most inhumane ever : it is actually a subset of the Talmud, resulting is the object of property being all and the person of even the proprietor being secondary at best : ideally the transactions as described by French law should be made by trans-human beings. The Napoleon Code just came to be adapted to a more humane society under the pressure from the street and from other contending influences such as the Church. The principle of shariah law is not that heads should roll (far more calls to roll heads are present in the Napoleon code) and hands be severed but that all judgements be derived from initial data by strictly algorithmic processes. After all the very concept of algorithm, as a calculation process that could be performed by an automaton, existed first in known history in the first Islamic Empire : despite their own superiority as mathematicians, Greeks and Hindus had never cared for algorithmic processes. The principle of shariah is that no negotiation process should intervene in establishing a verdict, most contrary to Common Law where negotiation between contending parties is the very process by which juridical truth is supposed to be derived. The Qadi in Islamic law plays a far less decisional role than a judge in other systems : he is supposed to act as a human computer.

    Therefore the question asked to so many muslims of different nationalities whether they are fore shariah law having precedence is itself very ambiguous : it may mean that they want to see heads roll, but it may also mean that they simply want a system of law where knowing the judge rather than the law doesn’t make one a great lawyer rather than a simply good one.

  215. antibeast says:
    @Malla

    “Useless lazy” Malaysia GDP PPP per capita 28,830 dollars vs “Heavenly Middle Kingdom” PR China (not the ROC), GDP PPP per capita 16,790 dollars.

    In terms of nominal GDP per capita, China is already ahead of Malaysia, per IMF figures as of 2020 as shown below:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita

    China \$ 10,500
    Malaysia \$ 10,402

    I am confused and sheet….

    You used the PPP figures because the nominal GDP per capita figures would show China having surpassed Malaysia in 2020. And China is still growing at 6-7% per annum which is twice the 3-4% of Malaysia.

    Still confused?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Malla
  216. @Malla

    Exactly. The original poster referred to the links of the creation of the Taliban with the Americans. You refuted and said it was by the ISI, thereby minimising the US links.

    Now faced with a direct argument that it was the US that funded the creation of the Taliban through ISI, you wriggle and bring in things like the ISI’s current good relations with China, and other issues like the Pakistani Government’s hand etc.

    Just keep to the point and stop obfuscating.

    Or perhaps you write sooooooooooooo much that you forget your original points?

    • Replies: @Malla
  217. Anonymous[331] • Disclaimer says:
    @antibeast

    You used the PPP figures because the nominal GDP per capita figures would show China having surpassed Malaysia in 2020.

    In truth, Purchasing Power Parity GDP is the real measure of economic power, not nominal GDP. PPP factors out exchange rate distortions, while nominal GDP does not – and so nominal GDP is distorted – “fake” in a sense.

    For example, nominal GDP seems to show that the American economy is larger than China’s today, when in fact economic tracking institutes agree that China overtook the United States in 2014, and has widened its lead since then (measured in the most accurate way – Purchasing Power Parity).

    China is now clearly the world’s largest economy, and in particular its industrial lead is already huge, and growing fast.

    If as you say that China’s nominal GDP per capita is already ahead of Malaysia’s (Malaysia, barring Singapore, is the best performer in South East Asia), then I believe in PPP per capita terms, China will inevitably overtake Malaysia as well.

    (Fun fact: Malaysia itself is about 1/3 ethnic southern Chinese – the highest percentage in South East Asia).

    • Replies: @antibeast
    , @littlereddot
  218. antibeast says:
    @Anonymous

    The problem with using GDP per capita (PPP) is that it is a subjective measure based on the presumed equivalence in the standard-of-living of two disparate economies. So someone paying X dollars for a commodity in lower-income country A is deemed to be equivalent to paying Y dollars in higher-income country B by applying a multiple to the income generated in country A to compensate for its lower-cost of living vis-a-vis country B.

    But this is a false equivalence because the reason why country A has a lower cost-of-living than country B is due to its lower standard-of-living as measured by its GDP per capita (nominal). Applying a multiple to inflate the GDP per capita (PPP) figure assumes an equivalent standard-of-living in both higher-income and lower-income countries which is patently false.

    Malaysia has a large Oil&Gas sector which has boomed over the last two decades, driving as much as 20% of its GDP whereas China has a large export manufacturing sector which has boomed over the last two decades, driving as much as 17% of its GDP today. In fact, Malaysia’s export manufacturing sector has declined over the last two decades, due to competition from China even as its Oil&Gas sector has boomed, leading to what economists call the Dutch Disease. The difference between the GDP generated by natural resources in the case of Malaysia vs the GDP generated by industrial resources in the case of China has driven the socio-economic disparity in their standard-of-living which explains the lower cost-of-living of Malaysia vis-a-vis China. This Dutch Disease could also explain the socio-economic disparity between Singapore and Malaysia, with the human resources of Singapore generating much higher GDP per capita (nominal) compared to Malaysia’s economic dependence on natural resources.

    The Singapore example implies that China’s GDP per capita (nominal) will continue to grow much faster than Malaysia’s in the decades to come. Malaysia has a big problem retaining its high-quality workforce which consists mostly of Chinese and Indian Malaysians who prefer emigrating to Singapore, HK, Taiwan or the West, rather then remain in a Muslim Malay-dominated State. But China is now moving from capital-intensive infrastructure and labor-intensive manufacturing industries to knowledge-based technology and services industries. As a result of this transition, China’s human capital as measured by its HDI will rise rapidly over the next few decades, mirroring what had happened to other East Asian economies. And that is why China is now upgrading its human capital by investing in science, technology, education, healthcare, culture, sports, childcare, elderly care, etc., which would dramatically raise its HDI, just like Singapore.

    The USA is completely out-of-this-world given the status of the USD as the world’s reserve currency. A better comparison is the EU-27 or East Asia-3 (Japan, South Korea, Taiwan) which has a GDP per capita (nominal) of 30-40K, as compared to 10K for China which is still growing at 3X the rate of either EU-27 or EA-3. Sometime in the next decade, China’s GDP per capita (nominal) will exceed 20K, with the top 70% of its population reaching 20K-40K. By that time, China’s urban residents (70% of the population) will begin to enjoy a standard-of-living comparable to either EU-27 or EA-3. After that, China will officially become a high-income country based on its GDP per capita (nominal).

  219. Malla says:
    @littlereddot

    Are you smoking crack? My intentions were about the present Taliban. Read my earliest post.
    And as far as American involvement in Afghanistan in support of the Mujaheddin against the Soviets, IT WAS THEY WHO WERE APPROACHED BY PAKISTAN FIRST. It was only then that the Americans got the idea of taking revenge and creating the USSR’s own Vietnam. It was General Zia of Pakistan to wanted American involvement in Afghanistan. He said that they must boil the pot but not so much that the milk flows over. That is, support the anti-Soviet forces but not so much that the USSR ends up attacking Pakistan’s border’s in retribution (which the Pakistanis obviously feared). According to the Americans, the Pakistanis were afraid
    1] The Old British Raj fear of the Tzarist Russians wanting warm-water ports in the Indian subcontinent was taken over by the Pakistani deep State, a fear that the Soviet invasion may be a pretext for the USSR wanting Karachi port like the fears about Tzarist Russia a century earlier.
    2] Reduce India’s positive influence in Afghanistan and bring Afghanistan into Pakistan’s sphere of influence.

    I know Pakistan is China’s new satellite state and all that and you want to reduce their blame but that is not possible. They were deep into this shit.

    • Replies: @littlereddot
  220. Malla says:
    @antibeast

    You used the PPP figures because the nominal GDP per capita figures would show China having surpassed Malaysia in 2020. An

    I did nothing of that sort, all I did was type Malaysia per capita income on Google . Blame Google not me.

    Still confused?

    Yes. LKY was wrong (if what Rdm claims is true). Malaysia did far better than he predicted.

  221. antibeast says:

    Yes. LKY was wrong (if what Rdm claims is true). Malaysia did far better than he predicted.

    Malaysia did better than expected due to its Oil&Gas sector which boomed during the last twenty years. But LKY also predicted that Vietnam would become the next Asian tiger, outperforming ALL of ASEAN, due to the quality of its human resources.

    And he also predicted that the USA would lose the war in Afghanistan, as shown in the video below:

    • Replies: @Rdm
    , @Malla
  222. @Rdm

    The only reason that chinaman built a city (it’s a joke to call Singapore a country; hell, even the name comes from the Indians, just like mandarin) is because the White man, i.e. the British, helped found it and other white countries let it flourish with trade agreements favorable to the city. It’s nothing to brag about!

  223. @Anonymous

    Fun fact: Malaysia itself is about 1/3 ethnic southern Chinese – the highest percentage in South East Asia

    I think what you meant was highest percentage in SE Asia apart from Singapore, which we all know is 70% Chinese

    There is another fun fact. If you make a list with two columns, one column with the SE Asian countries by percentage of ethnic Chinese in their populations in descending order, and another column with their per capita GDP, you will find an interesting correlation that cannot be put off to coincidence.

  224. @Malla

    oooh, such alot of blabbering.

    Again cannot keep to the point and keep bringing in all sorts of irrelevant stuff. Now there’s Soviet and Brit Raj…..yada yada.

    Man up … just admit you were wrong.

    • Replies: @Malla
  225. Rdm says:
    @antibeast

    LKY has made many observations in his life and some of them are a bit over the top and would be deemed as racist and canceled immediately in this 21st century. However most of his comments became the reality and we’re still witnessing his observation true to the core to this day.

    He said it was quite a sight when the British fled the country like rabid dogs when Japanese dropped the bombs in SEA.

    When asked if Singapore will ever become innovative as the US, he spoke his mind and bluntly said “Not possible.” The reporter then drew a correlation between Finland, Sweden and Singapore where the population is quite similar and they have produced the global brands. He chuckled and said “it’s a fluke.” One might get either pissed or discouraged from his words but he tells like his minds.

    Little did everybody know is Singapore had a fluke once and produced Creative technology. Lo and behold Apple violated the patent and stole the technology and paid a big fine back in the days when iPod was a big thing.

    For Malaysia, I had thought of writing it down, but felt like lazy and I deleted my writings. It’s about GDP. GDP itself is an estimator, but it doesn’t tell an entire story of how healthy a country is running. Anyway LKY had a great admiration for India but also said that the country is locked in political gridlock. Well he also said the nature of human resources. His famous observation was

    “If you give a stick to do a job, it will take two Indians to carry a basket.”
    “For Chinese, they will carry two baskets with one stick.”

    • Replies: @antibeast
  226. Rdm says:

    We all get it, it’s a comedy. But one would wonder.

  227. antibeast says:
    @Rdm

    I agree with you that GDP per capita can be misleading. Take the case of Sarawak which is a State in Eastern Malaysia. Sarawak is among the top three richest states in Malaysia but ironically has seven of the 10 poorest districts in the country:

    https://www.theborneopost.com/2019/02/01/outwardly-rich-inwardly-poor/

    Sarawak is among the top three richest states in Malaysia, contributing 9.7 per cent of Malaysia’s GDP – behind Selangor (22 per cent) and the Federal Territories (15.6 per cent) in the State Socio-economic Report (SSR) 2017.

    Sarawak’s GDP per capita stood at RM49,327 in 2017, only behind the top three of Kuala Lumpur (RM111,321), Labuan (RM65,949) and Penang (RM49,873). Sarawak’s economic growth is quite fast at 4.2 per cent compared to other states in Malaysia.

    Note that outside of Kuala Lumpur which is the Capital of Malaysia, the next two economic centers are Labuan which is known for its offshore financial services industry and Penang which is known for its semiconductor/electronics industry and is the only State with an ethnic Chinese majority in Malaysia. Despite its high GDP per capita, Sarawak depends heavily on agriculture, mining, forestry and quarrying with its economy reliant on exports of palm oil, pepper, rubber and timber. That’s why Sarawak has a GDP per capita comparable to Penang even though Sarawak has a far lower human capital base than Penang. The rest of Malaysia outside of Labuan and Penang share similar characteristics as Sarawak: rich in natural resources but poor in human capital. Without Labuan and Penang, Malaysia whose oil wealth belongs to the State will look more like Brunei whose oil wealth belongs to just one man: the Sultan of Brunei. And despite its higher GDP per capita, Brunei has even lower human capital base than Malaysia.

  228. Malla says:
    @littlereddot

    just admit you were wrong.

    Admit something I did not do. Why should I?

  229. Malla says:
    @antibeast

    Actually Rdm got it wrong. LKY believed in the cold climate theory of human success. According to which the hardships faced by populations in places of cold climate combined with changing seasonal climate for thousands of years, seasoned some populations for success in the post Industrial revolution age. That breaks Asians into North East Asians (Japanese, Koreans, Chinese etc.. and maybe including Vietnamese) and the rest. LKY also spoke about Europe and the difference in between Germans and Italians. He once praised the meticulousness of how Germans make their beds in hotels etc… he did not specifically say anything against Indians or Malays as Rdm claims, he might have said something in a Singaporean context. By his cold climate theory Malays, Filipinos, Indonesians, Thai etc… all fall in the same group. And so do Indians, Bangladeshis and Rdm’s new pet favourites Pakistanis.
    And this difference was observed by a British gentleman in the 19th century, I cannot find the exact quote, it was in a text file in my old Hard Drive which is in my sister’s apartment. It was something like that British Gentleman (was it Alleyne Ireland??) said that in work, Chinese are in the same category of British, Germans, Frenchmen etc… and not in the category of Malays, Indians, Africans, Arabs etc… Something of that sort.
    Of course there are many other factors at play than this cold climate theory, it is just one factor among many in a population’s success. Many factors, genetic, cultural, economic policies, human development etc… interplay in many ways to determine outcome.

    • Replies: @Rdm
    , @antibeast
  230. Rdm says:
    @Malla

    Lee’s admiration on Indians

    “If all Indian ministers and top bureaucrats were like Narayana Murthy [cofounder and former chief executive officer of Infosys]- hardworking, tough taskmasters, hard negotiators, but always forward-looking-India would be one of the fastest-growing countries in the world, and in one generation would become a firstworld country. However, Murthy probably realizes that no single person can change India’s system of governance to become as efficient as Infosys”

    Lee’s realistic observation

    When doing a project [the British] would put the Chinese in the middle and put the Indians at the side, and the Indians were expected to keep the pace of the Chinese. And there was a hell of a problem, because one Chinese would carry one pole with two wicker baskets of earth, whereas two Indians would carry one pole with one wicker basket between them. So it’s one quarter. Now that’s culture. Maybe it has to do with genetic characteristics, I’m not sure.

    I think I’m done with this. One can only speculate to certain extent. The rest will be history.

    Reference

    1. Excerpt From: Graham Allison;Robert D. Blackwill;Ali Wyne. “Lee Kuan Yew: The Grand Master’s Insights on China, the United States, and the World.”
    2. Michael Barr
    3. Hindu News

  231. antibeast says:
    @Malla

    LKY, as far as I know, believed more in the extrinsic factors affecting the cultural evolution of human societies rather than on intrinsic factors such as genetics and biology. Yes, climate is one such factor but so is history. According to LKY, the Native Americans share similar genetics as East Asians but their societies and cultures evolved very differently from that of the Chinese, Japanese, Koreans and Vietnamese due to their differences in history not biology. Similarly, he observed that Russian society and culture evolved differently from Northern Europeans such as the Germans and Scandinavians even though they share similar genetic characteristics. So, climate is one factor, yes, but not the only factor. After all, Eskimos, Inuits, Yakuts, etc. all lived in cold climes but came out very differently from the East Asians living in cold climes, despite having similar genetic characteristics. Same can be said of Russians and Scandinavians, both of whom lived in cold climes but came out very differently from each other, despite having similar genetic characteristics. That’s why LKY didn’t believe in the universality of Western Liberalism which he thought would not work in Russia despite being a White Christian European Nation. LKY also opposed Western Liberalism in Singapore as he thought that Western ideals of ‘individual rights and personal freedoms’ would conflict with Asian values of ‘family ties and religious traditions’.

    On the differences between China and India, LKY had this to say in a public Q&A session during a convention of the South Asian Diaspora:

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Malla
    , @Malla
  232. Malla says:
    @antibeast

    https://www.readkong.com/page/lee-kuan-yew-race-culture-and-genes-9430387
    Lee Kuan Yew: Race, Culture and Genes
    By Michael D. Barr (Department of History, University of Queensland)

    “Singapore, although geographically part Of South East Asia, was economically on a par with the more prosperous East Asian region. (9) In the subsequent “discussion” of these predictions, “Wang Chang” made it clear that race was a factor in his assessment, since he based his forecasting “on a people’s culture, heredity and organisational strengths.” (10) A few years earlier, Lee used his 1989 National Day Rally address to defend the Government’s programme of encouraging Chinese immigration from Hong Kong on the basis that the birth rate of Singapore’s Chinese is lower than that of the Indians and Malays. The numerical preponderance of the Chinese must be maintained, said Lee, “or there will be a shift in the economy, both the economic performance and the political backdrop which makes that economic performance possible.” (11) Lee enumerated several reasons why maintaining the Chinese proportion of the population at current levels was necessary for economic prosperity – including the “culture” and “nature” of the Chinese.”

    ..snip…

    Lee maintains that at some stage before the late 1960s he had acted under the assumption that all races were equal, but bitter disappointment convinced him that the reality was otherwise: “When we were faced with the reality that, in fact, equal opportunities did not bring about more equal results, we were faced with [an] ideological dilemma. … In other words, this Bell curve, which Murray and Herrnstein wrote about, became obvious to us by the late ’60s.” (39) ”

  233. Malla says:
    @antibeast

    “While Lee has been moderately circumspect in most of his public statements on race, there have been rare occasions on which he has shown less discretion than usual.”
    …snip…
    “Central to the thesis propounded by Toynbee in A Study of History, was the notion that societies and civilisations develop in response to certain challenges. Toynbee argued that “civilizations come to birth in environments that are unusually difficult and not unusually easy.” (47) The Sinic Civilisation, wrote Toynbee, was nurtured in the north of China, where the climate was severe, and swamps and regular floods made agriculture difficult, and so it became a “hard” society. (48) Conversely, societies that were nurtured in easy environments, without challenges from people or nature are inherently weak. in Volume I of Study, Toynbee repeated a parable originally told by Ellsworth Huntington in his Civilisation and Climate. It was the story of a group of savages from the tropics who travelled north into the colder climate. Upon the onset of the first winter, some returned to the tropics, “resumed the old life and their descendants are untutored Savages to this day.” (49) All of the others perished except for one group which invented clothes, constructed shelter, learned to dry meat and store it, and discovered how to make fire. “And in the process of adjusting themselves to a hard environment they advanced by enormous strides, leaving the tropical part of Mankind in the rear.” (50) No one should suggest that Lee, Toynbee or Huntington believed that this parable was literally true. The story does demonstrate, however, Toynbee’s lesson of the importance of the challenge of climate and more generally, of the environment, whereby those people whose civilisations grew in the “soft” life of the tropics were left behind by their hardier cousins in harsher climates. Lee has taken Toynbee’s arguments and used them to justify a dismissive attitude towards the Malayan and Indian Cultures. This logic explains the hierarchy of hardiness of the three women in Lee’s parable. The Southeast Asian died first because she came from an easy tropical climate. The South Asian lived a little longer because the climate of the Subcontinent is less amenable than that of tropical Southeast Asia. The East Asian lived because she – or at least her ancestors – came from a very harsh climate which brought out tougher qualities in her people. With a harsh climate go many challenges which develop a plethora of cultural and racial characteristics in a people. In 1965, in an interview on Australian television, Lee discussed the differences between the Malays and the Chinese in Malaysia: “One is the product of a civilisation which has gone through all its ups and downs, of floods and famine and pestilence, breeding a people with very intense culture, with a belief in high performance in sustained effort, in thrift and industry. And the other people. more fortunately endowed by nature, with warm sunshine and bananas and coconuts, and therefore not with the same need to strive so hard. Now, these two societies really move at two different speeds. It’s like the difference between a high- revolution engine and a low-revolution engine. I’m not saying that one is better or less good than the other. But I’m just stating a fact that one was the product of another environment another history, another civilisation, and the other is a product of another different climate, different history.” (51) Lee found an unwitting ally for his views on cultural suprematism in the Scandinavian social scientist, Gunnar Myrdal. The connection was made by Lee himself in his 1971 commemorative lecture at his old college at Cambridge University, in which he argued this case at length: “It is in part the difference between the more intense and exacting Sinic cultures of East Asia and the less demanding values of Hindu culture of South and South-east Asia, that accounts for the difference in industrial progress between Eastern and Southern Asia. The softer and more benign Hindu civilisation spread through Burma, Thailand, Laos and Cambodia, meeting the Sinic civilisation on the borders of Vietnam…. Gunnar Myrdal, in his “Asian Drama” (52) voluminously sets out the reasons for lower achievements amongst these peoples [of South and South-cast Asia]. He terms them “soft societies.” Their expectations and desire for achievement are lower. Had he studied the Sinic civilisations of East Asia – Korea, Japan, China and Vietnam – he would have come to the opposite conclusions, that these were hard societies”

    ..snip…

    “Lee, however, has taken Toynbee’s views on the role of the environment. and developed a view of race based on a much stricter theory of environmental determinism than was ever advocated by Toynbee.”

  234. Malla says:
    @antibeast

    “Early in 1967, Lee expounded his views on the stultifying effects of living in the tropics, and explained why Singapore is the exception to the rule: “There is only one other civilization near the Equator that ever produced anything worthy of its name. That was the Yucatan peninsular of South America – the Mayan Civilization. There is no other place where human beings were able to surmount the problems of a soporific equatorial climate. You can go along the Equator or 2 degrees north of it, and they all sleep after half past two if they have had a good meal. They do! Otherwise they must die earlier. It is only in Singapore that they don’t. And there were good reasons for this. First, good glands, and second, good purpose.” (55) There are three noteworthy points in this excerpt, apart from the confirmation of Lee’s environmental determinism. First, the reference to the Mayan Civilisation is almost certainly derived directly from Arnold Toynbee’s Study. ”

    • Replies: @antibeast
  235. antibeast says:
    @Malla

    More quotes from LKY on race, culture, history and environment:

    https://lkyonrace.wordpress.com/

    [MORE]

    I started off believing all men were equal … I now know that’s the most unlikely thing ever to have been, because millions of years have passed over evolution, people have scattered across the face of this earth, been isolated from each other, developed independently, had different intermixtures between races, peoples, climates, soils.

    You take the American Red Indian. He is genetically a Mongolian or Mongoloid, the same as the Chinese and the Koreans. But they crossed over, according to the anthropologists and the geologists, when the Bering Straits was a bridge between America and Asia. But for a few thousand years, in Asia, they had invading armies to-ing and fro-ing, huge infusions of different kinds of genes into the population from Genghis Khan, from the Mongols, from the Manchus, God knows how many invasions. And in the other, isolation, with only the buffaloes, until the white men came and they were weak and defenceless against white men’s diseases and were eliminated. So whilst they were identical in stock, origin, they ended up different.

    I didn’t start off with that knowledge. But by observation, reading, watching, arguing, asking, that is the conclusion I’ve come to.

    This is something which I have read and I tested against my observations. We read many things. The fact that it’s in print and repeated by three, four authors does not make it true. They may all be wrong. But through my own experience, meeting people, talking to them, watching them, I concluded: yes, there is this difference. Then it becomes part of the accepted facts of life for me.

    —————-

    I visited Europe during my vacation (as a student) and then saw India, Pakistan, Ceylon, Indonesia, Japan, Germany … You look for societies which have been more successful and you ask yourself why. On my first visit to Germany, in 1956, we had to stop in Frankfurt on our way to London. We had [earlier] stopped in Rome. This languid Italian voice over the loudspeaker said something … And there were Italian workers trundling trolleys at the airport. It was so relaxed, the atmosphere and the pace of work.

    Then the next stop was Frankfurt. And immediately, the climate was a bit cooler and chillier. And a voice came across the loudspeaker: “Achtung! Achtung!” The chaps were the same, porters, but bigger-sized and trundling away. These were people who were defeated and completely destroyed and they were rebuilding. I could sense the goal, the dynamism.

    Then Britain – well, they were languid, gentlemanly. With welfare, the British workers were no longer striving. They were getting West Indians to do the dirty jobs as garbage collectors, dustmen, conductors. They were still drivers because that was highly paid, the conductors were paid less.

    So one was looking for a soft life, the other was rebuilding and pushing. That made a vivid impression, a very deep impression on me.

    I also visited Switzerland when I was a student in ’47, ’48, on holiday. I came down by train from Paris to Geneva. Paris was black bread, dirty, after the war. I arrived at Geneva that morning, sleeping overnight. It was marvellous. Clean, beautiful, swept streets, nice buildings, marvellous white pillowcases and sheets, white bread after dark dirty bread and abundant food and so on. But hardworking, punctilious, the way they did your bed and cleaned up your rooms. It told me something about why some people succeed and some people don’t. Switzerland has a small population. If they didn’t have those qualities, they would have been overrun and Germany would have taken one part and the French another, the Italians would have taken another part. And that’s the end of them.

    … the Japanese. Yes, I disliked their bullying and their hitting people and torturing people [during the Japanese Occupation], a brutal way of dealing with people. But they have admirable qualities. And in defeat, I admired them. For weeks, months, they were made, as prisoners, to clean the streets in Orchard Road, Esplanade and I used to watch them. Shirtless, in their dirty trousers but doing a good job. You want me to clean up? Okay, I clean up, that’s my job. None of this reluctance, you know, and humiliated shame. My job is to clean up; all right, I clean up. I think that spirit rebuilt Japan. It was a certain attitude to life. That assured their success.

    —————–

    Genes cannot be created, right? Unless you start tinkering with it as they may be able to do one day. But the culture you can tinker with. It’s slow to change, but it can be changed – by experience – otherwise human beings will not survive. If a certain habit does not help survival, well, you must quickly unlearn that habit.

    So I’ve got to try and get Singaporeans to emulate or to adopt certain habits and practices which will make Singapore succeed. If you go and act like the Italians and wander around gradually, take your own sweet time, trundling luggage, you are not going to have a good airport that can compete with other people in the world. You’ve got to hustle and bustle, now, get on with it! Clear the baggage quickly!

    —————–

    The only way we can all really be physiologically equal in brain power and everything else is to have a melange. All go into a melting pot and you stir it. In other words, force mixed marriages, which is what the people in Zanzibar tried. The blacks wanted to marry all the Arab girls so that the next generation, their children, will be half-Arab. But I don’t think that’s a practical way nor will it solve the problem. And you can’t do that worldwide, you can – maybe you can do that in Zanzibar. In the process, you diminish Zanzibar.

    Because whereas before you had some outstanding people who can do things for Zanzibar, now you have brought them down to a lower level.

    ——————

    In large areas of the world, a cultural pattern (is) determined by many things, including climatic conditions. As long as that persists, nothing will ever emerge. And for it to emerge, there must be this desire between contending factions of the “have” nations to try and mould the “have-not” nations after their own selves. If they want that strongly enough, competition must act as an accelerator, and no more than an accelerator to the creation of modern, industrial, technological societies in the primitive agricultural regions of the world. …

    I think Asia can be very clearly demarcated into several distinct parts — East Asia is one: it has got a different tempo of its own. So have South Asia and Southeast Asia. I think this is crucial to an understanding of the possibilities of either development for the good or development which is not in the interest of peace and human happiness in the region.

    I like to demarcate — I mean not in political terms — demarcate them half in jest, but I think half with some reality on the basis of difference in the tempo according to the people who know what these things are. I mean East Asia: Korea, Japan and mainland China and including the Republic of China in Taiwan and Vietnam. They are supposed to be Mahayana Buddhists. And then there is Cambodia, Thailand, Burma, Ceylon, which are supposed to be Hinayana Buddhists. According to the Hinayana Buddhists, if the bedbug disturbs you then you take your mattress and shake it off; there is that compassion not only for the human being but for the bedbug, and you give it another chance and you let it off. Either it finds its way on to some other creature or it finds its way back to your bed. But watching the Japanese over the years, I have not the slightest doubt that is not what they do. And I think this makes some difference. I am not talking now -isms or ideologies. It is something deeper. It is part of the tempo, the way of life.

    —————–

    I am sufficiently sanguine about the future because if you look at the history of the region you will find that these were not cultures which created societies capable of intense discipline, concentrated effort, over sustained periods. Climate, the effects of relatively abundant society and the tropical conditions produced a people largely extrovert, easy going and leisurely. They’ve got their wars, they have their periods of greatness when the Hindus came in the 7th and again in the 12th centuries, in the Majapahit and the Srivijaya empires. But in between the ruins of Borubudur and what you have of Indonesia today, you see a people primarily self-indulgent. And I think that is a source of considerable comfort to us because we are much smaller than they are.

    You have different peoples in other climates in other countries. Now, you have the Germans, for example, a different breed of men with a different cultural milieu, and they for some reason or the other always believed in destiny, that somehow God had chosen them to produce a better type of race in order to lift up standards in the world, and that they have the answer. And there are capable of extreme effort over very sustained periods, and with very high standards of individual performance. Now this being so, I suggest that the future is not necessarily bleak provided we can keep external powers from getting into Southeast Asia.

    ——————

    Industrial status can be achieved only if new value systems and behaviour patterns are grafted on the old. It is in part the difference between the more intense and exacting Sinic cultures of East Asia and the less intense and less demanding values of Hindu culture of South and South-east Asia, that accounts for the difference in industrial progress between Eastern and Southern Asia.

    The softer and more benign Hindu civilisation spread through Burma, Thailand, Laos and Cambodia, meeting the Sinic civilisation on the borders of Vietnam, hence the name, the Indo-China Peninsula. …

    Gunnar Myrdal, in his “Asian Drama,” voluminously sets out the reasons for lower achievements amongst these peoples. He terms them “soft societies.” Their expectations and desire for achievement are lower.

    Had he studied the Sinic civilisations of East Asia — Korea, Japan, China and Vietnam — he would have come to the opposite conclusions, that these were hard societies.

  236. Smith says:

    Hmm, I’ve seen literal worship of LKY here.

    Is Unz populated by singaporeans? Outside of singaporeans, nobody gives a fuck about this guy.

    • Replies: @littlereddot
  237. @Smith

    Awww, don’t be jealous.

    We all love Uncle Ho too, you know.

    • Replies: @Smith
  238. Smith says:
    @littlereddot

    Naw, just pointing out LKY isn’t all that great.
    This will seem apparent in Singapore’s future.

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