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The Heart of the Matter in the South China Sea
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When the Ronald Reagan and Nimitz carrier strike groups recently engaged in “operations” in the South China Sea, it did not escape to many a cynic that the US Pacific Fleet was doing its best to turn the infantile Thucydides Trap theory into a self-fulfilling prophecy.

The pro forma official spin, via Rear Adm. Jim Kirk, commander of the Nimitz, is that the ops were conducted to “reinforce our commitment to a free and open Indo-Pacific, a rules-based international order, and to our allies and partners”.

Nobody pays attention to these clichés, because the real message was delivered by a CIA operative posing as diplomat, Secretary of State Mike “We Lie, We Cheat, We Steal” Pompeo: “The PRC has no legal grounds to unilaterally impose its will on the region”, in a reference to the Nine-Dash Line. For the State Dept., Beijing deploys nothing but “gangster tactics” in the South China Sea.

Once again, nobody paid attention, because the actual facts on the sea are stark. Anything that moves in the South China Sea – China’s crucial maritime trade artery – is at the mercy of the PLA, which decides if and when to deploy their deadly DF-21D and DF-26 “carrier killer” missiles. There’s absolutely no way the US Pacific Fleet can win a shooting war in the South China Sea.

Electronically jammed

A crucial Chinese report, unavailable and not referred to by Western media, and translated by Hong Kong-based analyst Thomas Wing Polin, is essential to understand the context.

The report refers to US Growler electronic warplanes rendered totally out of control by electronic jamming devices positioned on islands and reefs in the South China Sea.

According to the report, “after the accident, the United States negotiated with China, demanding that China dismantle the electronic equipment immediately, but it was rejected. These electronic devices are an important part of China’s maritime defense and are not offensive weapons. Therefore, the US military’s request for dismantling is unreasonable.”

It gets better: “On the same day, former commander Scott Swift of the US Pacific Fleet finally acknowledged that the US military had lost the best time to control the South China Sea. He believes that China has deployed a large number of Hongqi 9 air defense missiles, H-6K bombers, and electronic jamming systems on islands and reefs. The defense can be said to be solid. If US fighter jets rush into the South China Sea, they are likely to encounter their ‘Waterloo.’”

The bottom line is that the systems – including electronic jamming – deployed by the PLA on islands and reefs in the South China Sea, covering more than half of the total surface, are considered by Beijing to be part of the national defense system.

I have previously detailed what Admiral Philip Davidson, when he was still a nominee to lead the US Pacific Command (PACOM), told the US Senate. Here are his Top Three conclusions:

1) “China is pursuing advanced capabilities (e.g., hypersonic missiles) which the United States has no current defense against. As China pursues these advanced weapons systems, US forces across the Indo-Pacific will be placed increasingly at risk.”

2) “China is undermining the rules-based international order.”

3) “China is now capable of controlling the South China Sea in all scenarios short of war with the United States.”

Implied in all of the above is the “secret” of the Indo-Pacific strategy: at best a containment exercise, as China continues to solidify the Maritime Silk Road linking the South China Sea to the Indian Ocean.

Remember the nusantao

The South China Sea is and will continue to be one of the prime geopolitical flashpoints of the young 21st century, where a great deal of the East-West balance of power will be played.

I have addressed this elsewhere in the past in some detail, but a short historical background is once again absolutely essential to understand the current juncture as the South China Sea increasingly looks and feels like a Chinese lake.

Let’s start in 1890, when Alfred Mahan, then president of the US Naval College, wrote the seminal The Influence of Sea Power Upon History, 1660-1783. Mahan’s central thesis is that the US should go global in search of new markets, and protect these new trade routes through a network of naval bases.

That is the embryo of the US Empire of Bases – which remains in effect.

It was Western – American and European – colonialism that came up with most land borders and maritime borders of states bordering the South China Sea: Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia, Vietnam.

We are talking about borders between different colonial possessions – and that implied intractable problems from the start, subsequently inherited by post-colonial nations.

Historically, it had always been a completely different story. The best anthropological studies (Bill Solheim’s, for instance) define the semi-nomadic communities who really traveled and traded across the South China Sea from time immemorial as the Nusantao – an Austronesian compound word for “south island” and “people”.

The Nusantao were not a defined ethnic group. They were a maritime internet. Over centuries, they had many key hubs, from the coastline between central Vietnam and Hong Kong all the way to the Mekong Delta. They were not attached to any “state”. The Western notion of “borders” did not even exist. In the mid-1990s, I had the privilege to encounter some of their descendants in Indonesia and Vietnam.

So it was only by the late 19th century that the Westphalian system managed to freeze the South China Sea inside an immovable framework.

Which brings us to the crucial point of why China is so sensitive about its borders; because they are directly linked to the “century of humiliation” – when internal Chinese corruption and weakness allowed Western “barbarians” to take possession of Chinese land.

A Japanese lake

ORDER IT NOW

The Nine Dash Line is an immensely complex problem. It was invented by the eminent Chinese geographer Bai Meichu, a fierce nationalist, in 1936, initially as part of a “Chinese National Humiliation Map” in the form of a “U-shaped line” gobbling up the South China Sea all the way down to James Shoal, which is 1,500 km south of China but only over 100 km off Borneo.

The Nine Dash Line, from the beginning, was promoted by the Chinese government – remember, at the time not yet Communist – as the letter of the law in terms of “historic” Chinese claims over islands in the South China Sea.

One year later, Japan invaded China. Japan had occupied Taiwan way back in 1895. Japan occupied the Philippines in 1942. That meant virtually the entire coastline of the South China Sea being controlled by a single empire for the fist time in history. The South China Sea had become a Japanese lake.

Well, that lasted only until 1945. The Japanese did occupy Woody Island in the Paracels and Itu Aba (today Taiping) in the Spratlys. After the end of WWII and the US nuclear-bombing Japan, the Philippines became independent in 1946 and the Spratlys immediately were declared Filipino territory.

In 1947, all the islands in the South China Sea got Chinese names.

And in December 1947 all the islands were placed under the control of Hainan (itself an island in southern China.) New maps duly followed, but now with Chinese names for the islands (or reefs, or shoals). But there was a huge problem: no one explained the meaning of those dashes (which were originally eleven.)

In June 1947 the Republic of China claimed everything within the line – while proclaiming itself open to negotiate definitive maritime borders with other nations later on. But, for the moment, there were no borders.

And that set the scene for the immensely complicated “strategic ambiguity” of the South China Sea that still lingers on – and allows the State Dept. to accuse Beijing of “gangster tactics”. The culmination of a millennia-old transition from the “maritime internet” of semi-nomadic peoples to the Westphalian system spelled nothing but trouble.

Time for COC

So what about the US notion of “freedom of navigation”?

In imperial terms, “freedom of navigation”, from the West Coast of the US to Asia – through the Pacific, the South China Sea, the Malacca Strait and the Indian Ocean – is strictly an issue of military strategy.

The US Navy simply cannot imagine dealing with maritime exclusion zones – or having to demand an “authorization” every time they need to cross them. In this case the Empire of Bases would lose “access” to its own bases.

This is compounded with trademark Pentagon paranoia, gaming a situation where a “hostile power” – namely China – decides to block global trade. The premise in itself is ludicrous, because the South China Sea is the premier, vital maritime artery for China’s globalized economy.

So there’s no rational justification for a Freedom of Navigation (FON) program. For all practical purposes, these aircraft carriers like the Ronald Reagan and the Nimitz showboating on and off in the South China Sea amount to 21st century gunboat diplomacy. And Beijing is not impressed.

As far as the 10-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) is concerned, what matters now is to come up with a Code of Conduct (COC) to solve all maritime conflicts between Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and China.

Next year, ASEAN and China celebrate 30 years of strong bilateral relations. There’s a strong possibility they will be upgraded to “comprehensive strategic partner” status.

Because of Covid-19, all players had to postpone negotiations on the second reading of the single draft of COC. Beijing wanted these to be face to face – because the document is ultra-sensitive and for the moment, secret. Yet they finally agreed to negotiate online – via detailed texts.

It will be a hard slog, because as ASEAN made it clear in a virtual summit in late June, everything has to be in accordance with international law, including the UN Convention on the Law of the Seas (UNCLOS).

If they can all agree on a COC by the end of 2020, a final agreement could be approved by ASEAN in mid-2021. Historic does not even begin to describe it – because this negotiation has been going on for no less than two decades.

Not to mention that a COC invalidates any US pretension to secure “freedom of navigation” in an area where navigation is already free.

Yet “freedom” was never the issue. In imperial terminology, “freedom” means that China must obey and keep the South China Sea open to the US Navy. Well, that’s possible, but you gotta behave. That’ll be the day when the US Navy is “denied” the South China Sea. You don’t need to be Mahan to know that’ll mean the imperial end of ruling the seven seas.

(Republished from Asia Times by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: American Military, China, South China Sea 
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  1. Thank you for the article. I believe China’s generally-accepted claims on these islands extends far into the past, when China was really the only significant sea-faring nation and discovered those islands. To me, this is not different than the US claiming Hawaii or Puerto Rico, or the UK claiming the Falklands. If the above are acceptable, then China’s claims are as well.

    With the Senkakus, or China’s Diaoyu islands toward Japan, they were seized by Japan from China before the last war. At the end of the war, the world powers ordered those little islands returned to China. But the US was in charge in the Pacific and, rather than returning the islands to China, gave them to Japan in a kind of “temporary stewardship”, totally illegal and also setting the stage for future conflict. Much the same as what the US did with Taiwan.

    With the islands in the South China Sea, the US pushed Vietnam and other nations to challenge China’s ownership and begin building military bases on some of the islands – the most useful ones. China wasn’t about to start a war with its neighbors, but saw what was happening and immediately began building its own bases on some of the remaining islands to counter the US provocation. This part of the story has been omitted from the official Western narrative.

    • Troll: Really No Shit
  2. No mention of international law, no mention of the of the fact that maritime nations in the region despise the Chinese, no mention of the rising anti-Sino sentiment among the average person in the region, no mention of the low level of PLA and ‘coast guard’ training, and on and on and on.

    China has no friends in the region. China has no allies in the region. China is the playground bully who has a few coins in the pocket to buy sweets for the crowd…once the sweets are gone, everyone hates the bully again.

    Another Escobar piece written without objectivity, just as the jew puppets in the ‘West’ do.

    • Disagree: Badger Down
    • Replies: @d dan
    , @Tor597
  3. South China Sea: New Big Dog in town. Well, not entirely new, historically. Force Majeure is an old concept regarding what the U$ would now call “boots on the ground.” Those electronic jamming capabilities are giving the U$N some serious migraines.

    First, there was the case of the U$ destroyer moving on in close to Crimea some 4-5 years ago. An unarmed Russian plane does an overflight and BINGO, the entire detection and arming electronics on the vessel went down. Several more peaceful, but deadening overflights later and the captain got the message. The destroyer limped back to a base in Romania and a number of sailors aboard got outta the navy as fast as they could–message taken.

    Now we get a differentiated replay in the South China Sea where land-based electronic jamming systems dinglefritzed electronic systems on U$ snooper aircraft. So twice now U$ imperial missions have been severiously compromised by electronic superiority capabilities. So it’s back to the drawing board where the private WarDefense industry will hafta get down and attempt to come up with countervailing solutions.

    Good luck with that one, as the WarDefense industry is all about the bucks and is anything but a lean, mean fighting machine. The Russians and Chinese are all-business when it comes to military capabilities…state-controlled business which almost inevitably trumps privately-owned businesses corruptingly controlling state interests.

    At this point in time the Pentagram is too totally corrupted by the lords of Highest Finance and their wholly owned and controlled WarDefense industry. Their idea of “defense” is not at all about defending the nation against all enemies, foreign and domestic, but totally about defense of their highly profitable racket and that sacred bottom-line.

    • Agree: Realist, AnonFromTN
    • Replies: @The Alarmist
  4. Sean says:

    China cannot be stopped from becoming the world’s most powerful country, its products are too cheap. its manufacturing too dynamic. At the critical mass they have already attained China is radiating catastrophe for the West without even trying to. Deaths of Despair in the Rust Belt, even BLM (for Fentanyl and Covid 19 came from Wuhan and George Floyd had both in his system).

    Trump tried, but the party of big business is now the Democrats, and all the Wall Street index funds are counting on Chinese growth for huge profits. In America, shareholder value vulture investing by you know who is tanking R&D.

    So what is probably going to happen is America begins to get overtaken economically in the next ten years while it is playing silly military shadow boxing games in the South China Sea. A generation hence China will have the world’s most powerful economy and a technological edge. They have the people with IQ and the institutions for them to meet and associatively mate; only a matter of time before China achieves intellectual world pre eminence in a world in which the clever (American and virtually no other) Jews’ birthrate has crashed and they have ceased to procreate with each other. In brainpower terms the West will be increasingly be trading without a stock.

    Time is of the essence, so we need a war, and the sooner the better. But the first order of business is to reach an understanding with Russia, whatever they demand the US should willingly pay. Only then can China be ground down by a grand encircling alliance of the white race, with India an honorary member. If the younger generation of our Jewish parasite masters turned cognitively symbiotic slaves can get their mind off of Asian girls’ zaftig calves for a moment, they might begin to realise this is now a situation in which the elite of countries who play by the rules will be lost.

  5. d dan says:
    @true.enough

    “No mention of international law, no mention of the of the fact that maritime nations in the region despise the Chinese, no mention of the rising anti-Sino sentiment among the average person in the region, no mention of the low level of PLA and ‘coast guard’ training, and on and on and on.”

    The same list of questions could be post to you, an obvious troll. For examples:

    No mention of how China violates any international law? No mention of the fact that maritime nations in the region hate US interfering? No mention of any rising of Sino social and economic links with the average person in the region? No mention of the high level of PLA naval ship-building output and peaceful missions, and on and on and on.

    • Agree: Realist
    • Replies: @Based Lad
  6. @Sean

    China is finished…

    In the battle between hegemonic systems it seems America has won…

    Huawei was never just about spying, IP theft, or anything like that, there was a MUCH bigger picture and MUCH larger fish to fry…

    https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/FP_20200427_computer_chips_khan_flynn.pdf

    For those of you who don’t know, Intel has been stuck at 10nm for years and is hopeless, TSMC is the future. All the modern smartphones and IoT devices and appliances that need to have good battery life whilst performing faster need to be on the 7nm process or less (now state of the art is 5nm and TSMC working on 3nm). Your Apple phone that runs the Apple chip? Apple offshores that chip making to TSMC. The Huawei phone that has Huawei’s own HiSilicion chipset? That is made by TSMC. The 5G base stations that Huawei brags about? The chipset is made by TSMC….

    [MORE]

    TSMC is a Taiwanese company, and whilst geographically located close to mainland China it is basically pro-American and on the Trump side of things…
    What US was able to do last week was get Taiwan to on-shore its TSMC factory to America, so that even if a confrontation in the South China Sea ends up with losing Taiwan the US will still have home-grown EUV microprocessor capabilities whilst banning China from access to these chips, including the machines that produce the chips (ASML) and the entire supply chain surrounding all of this (German Carl Zeiss etc)…

    By lowering the De minimis U.S. content rule from 25% to 10% and now down to 1%/zero percent, China won’t be able to source chips anywhere, even from non-US firms, and they will have hard time to even source the machines that build the machines that build the chips, as any supplier that has even 1% US content won’t be allowed to export to China to help China build a homegrown processor/fab capabilities… The intent of this is to throw China back into the stone age. Make no mistake, this is the America cutting off Japan from oil moment we just witnessed… Did you guys know China actually spends more money importing computer chips than it does oil? This is how critical processors are to China.

    Make no mistake, this ban is not limited to just Huawei, infact I have on good authority that SMIC (Chinese mainland version of TSMC that is years behind) is next, and a total blanket ban of all processors to China soon to follow after that. SMIC won’t be able to catch up in time, and Huawei’s entire 5G base station chips were designed for 7nm process, meaning not only does this kill Huawei’s bread and butter of being able to export 5G (70 contacts signed worldwide) thus giving that business to US /Western companies but in fact it will even make it impossible for China to complete the rollout of its own domestic 5G market, meaning China will have to use American 5G (TSMC is being set up in Arizona with plans to buy Greenland for the rare earth minerals to get ahead of China using the rare earth card etc and Trump plans to buy Nokia and Ericcson to transfer 5G tech to USA not to mention Marco bill to invalidate Huawei 5G patents paving way for Verizon/AT&T to use them freely etc) or none at all, and during a time of war when US decides to attack China mainland coast after first taking the SCS or Taiwan, it can flip a switch and basically electronically shutdown all of China to cut off the Chinese C&C and cause mass chaos and panic throughout the mainland.

    Without the ability to climb the tech ascension chain (“Made in China 2025”) this will cause China to be stuck in the so called Middle Income Trap… it is almost impossible to do this if China cannot find a workaround to the bans which deprive it of access to state of the art fabs /chip making processes etc. How can China continue to expect to be world’s factory if it is denied microprocessors? How can China climb the tech ascension if its 5G/ AI and other dreams are dashed due to not having the access to chips?

    On the other hand, if AI pans out and in the future US can have fully automated factories that need no human labor, then no longer is the need to outsource to cheaper places like India, Mexico, China, etc because nothing is cheaper than AI which runs on electricity costs for labor… Globalization could be going in reverse in that sense and automation will mean supply chains returning local again.

    Pundits say that 5nm is not economically viable without Chinese market… but politics trumps economics.. especially when America is using this as weapon to contain and erase China and US still has the luxury of the petrodollar hegemony and USD as global reserve currency affording it to print its way out of this issue and making the rest of the world pay for the decoupling.

    Fusion is still 40 years away from real application, oil is running out, climate change is real, we have past peak resource globally and population overshoot is a real thing…

    The biggest issue is that of peak global resources , be it peak oil, peak minerals, peak fresh water, peak top soil. So in that perspective the world really is a zero sum game and Chinese rising standards of living in aggregate means less piece of the pie for everyone else, including Americans. If the end goal is to shutdown China (crater its GDP) then that would be bigger pieces of the pie for the rest of the world, and that would directly and proportionately benefit the US by far the most in terms of rising standards of living. The real wages in the US haven’t risen since the 1970’s…a good part of it is due to China’s rise in standards of living taking ever larger slices of the pie. So this could be what Trump meant when he said he was going to MAGA

    The only way Americans can sustain their non-negotiable way of life is to start harvesting China in a sort of Plaza Accord 2.0; but since “trade talks” broke down last year and Xi/CCP made it clear that China wasn’t going to let itself be colonized/harvested by the West then the US had no choice but one choice left, to completely crater China GDP by cutting it off from computer chips….

    In the long run if US can regain tech preeminence and full spectrum dominance it can become a leader in AI, and if it wins AI and 5G/6G and gets in front, (no matter what tactics it uses) then it won’t even need China anymore for manufacturing at all!

    Very few people can see what I see, the big picture, we live in a post-peak-resource world, and so its not only zero-sum, its ever-shrinking-slices-of-the-pie! Red queen race! US has to run faster and faster just to stay in place, it was storing China up like a piggybank counting on harvesting China by now but the Chinese did not play ball and so the only way is for US to start manufacturing itself locally using AI and automation whilst crashing Chinese GDP now that China is useless to America and just another 1.4 billion extra mouths to consume ever dwindling global resources!

    No matter what happens, Trump just dropped the hammer on China and this is the inflection point of the second cold war and so far America seems to have the clear advantage/leverage.

    But there’s more…

    One of China’s biggest problems is its diabetes crisis — even worse than the USA’s per capita, and growing faster:

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/chinas-diabetes-boom-promises-23-billion-put-for-drug-makers-2016-01-15

    More than 11% of Chinese adults suffered from the disease in 2013, according to a study by Chinese scientists published in the Journal of the American Medical Association, up from less than 1% in the 1980s and about twice the amount in 2000. By comparison, about 9% of adults in the U.S. are diabetic, up from around 6% in 2000, data from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention show.

    Almost 500 million more suffer from so-called “prediabetes” — a stage where blood sugar levels are high, but not high enough to trigger a diagnosis — indicating what the IDF calls “the enormity of diabetes as a public health problem in China.”

    The majority of Chinese insulin is supplied by the European and American juggernauts: Novo Nordisk, Eli Lilly and Sanofi:

    https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/global-and-china-insulin-industry-report-2013-2017-236366991.html

    Insulin has seen an increasing proportion of Chinese diabetes drug market, from 38.7% in 2007 to 55.6% in 2012. However, due to technical barriers, China’s insulin market is mainly occupied by Novo Nordisk, Sanofi and Eli Lilly, of which, Novo Nordisk accounted for 60.3% in 2012. While in recombinant human insulin market segments, the local Chinese enterprise –Tonghua Dongbao Pharmaceutical Co., Ltd. occupied part of the market with approximately 16% share.

    China is getting sicker and sicker, and they depend on our drugs to avert a national public health crisis. And yet we keep opening our fast food chains in China; KFC and McDonald’s are making inroads in the mainland and will more than double by 2025.

    The Chinese century has been cancelled. Buckle up for another 100 years of American hegemonic dominance!!!

  7. Anonymous[228] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean

    So what is probably going to happen is America begins to get overtaken economically in the next ten years while it is playing silly military shadow boxing games in the South China Sea. A generation hence China will have the world’s most powerful economy and a technological edge

    How does the arithmetic work here?

    The US and its allies/vassals in North America, NATO, E/SE Asia, S. Asia, Australasia, etc. match or dwarf China in basically every metric – geography, economy, science, tech, energy, population, resources. etc.

    China is large but largely isolated and landlocked, and only has a couple dubious allies in North Korea and Pakistan.

    • Replies: @Johnny Rico
    , @Alfred
  8. – The times of unchallenged positive sea power are over; get over it.
    There is a reason the Sea is called “South China” and the Gulf “Persian” instead of “Lake Monroe I+II”.
    Hysterical clinging to positive seapower bankrupted Little Britain by 1908 – roughly where the US is now. Let´s see … Affirmative Action Americans, wetbacks and Pentagon cost roughly the same – $750bn raw and net p.a. (of course the actual numbers are worse but I have only this napkin).
    The wetbacks are the least odious (health and education mostly), the triple-As the least useful and the armed forces the least dispensable (as no one else props up the $$$).
    The stranglehold on China is logical but getting porous – let´s start with the First Island Chain:
    Korea and Japan will medium-term prefer the Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere to a tenuous existence as the US´s tripwire bitches. The Taiwan junta is the most dependent but also the most susceptible to color revolution – the logical flashpoint.
    Hong Kong is already naught but the necrotic appendix of the Greater Bay Area (Shenzhen alone is over thrice as big), just a grossly overcrowded money laundromat (which not coincidentally BoJo envisages for Little Britain too).
    The Philippines are a write-off barring a putsch; the problem is the abject and visible corruption that follows the Americans wherever they go, to the point of some beheading Islamic council looking preferrable.
    Yamashita´s bicycles have shown the Straits are not a problem if you do not give a shit.
    Arakan (a.k.a. “Rohingya”) was another shot in the Agency´s clit; the Burmese have 160 legitimate minorities to fret and will not be dumped on by a few illegal Bengals.
    India´s recent push north is aimed at China´s lines of communication – watch this space.
    The criminally occupied Chagos (“Diego Garcia”) is well positioned to control the Indian Ocean but a bit measly.
    Pakistan: -> Philippines.
    Afghanistan … as soon as the Germans are gone from Kunduz, expect a few plausibly deniable truckloads of active AT mines and MANPADS.

    Russia has been fucked over a few times too often – expect no sympathy. Much the same for Germany.
    Japan never had a chance (and Yamamoto knew it) and was easily goaded into a hopeless endeavour; the Chinese have not forgotten the Century of Humiliation.

    Prepare to eat the great terror bird 😛

  9. Sean says:
    @JohnPlywood

    full spectrum dominance

    Like with the wars in Vietnam and Korea, which were clear defeats of the local US ally by China despite massive efforts by an America relatively speaking far more powerful than it is today. The US’s geographic position means it will never be able to project sufficient power across the Pacific Ocean for dominance over China. Fat lot of good the US navy was in Vietnam, eh? If a dominant US Navy enabled effective force projection in mainland China, it would never have gone communist in the first place.

    TSMC is a Taiwanese company… and the entire supply chain surrounding all of this (German Carl Zeiss etc)

    The Germans are doing great business supplying China with capital goods. A few years ago when Taiwan seemed to be toying with the idea of independence the Chinese government said it would be an act of war and in that event Taiwan would be invaded. When the US tried to threaten nukes, China pointed out that their ICBMs can reach the West Coast of America. Taiwan is already within China’s orbit and functions for technology transfer from America to China. Korea and Japan are heading the same way, although they pretend to be US allies in order to get preferential access to the US market.

    No matter what happens, Trump just dropped the hammer on China and this is the inflection point of the second cold war and so far America seems to have the clear advantage/leverage.

    Most political scientists think Trump will will find it very difficult to avoid being be a one term president. Like Roosevelt in his first term, Trump was thwarted by legalism. To carry though his program of slowing down China’s growth Trump needs to win a second term to show he represents settled will of the people rather than some caprice. In 2016 the corporations just hunkered down expecting a favourable climate for trade with China in 2021, which seems to have been prescient, and when Biden wins they will go back to technology transfer as a way of getting access to the Chinese market, which they are licking their chops at. The shareholder value culture in US big business forces Corporations into China, where they will be shaken down for their technology.

    Wall Street wants profits, and they and their minions in the media are backing Biden. Among white working class women, support for Trump has fallen from over 60% to 50 %. Women will have suffered weight gain during the lockdown. Hillary’s strategists were perhaps not so misguided when they spent a lot of time on advertising that Trump fat-shamed a Miss Universe winner as “Miss Piggy”. Trump comes across as judgmental about female adiposity. Factor in that his female supporters cannot get into their clothes from 100 days ago and are constantly stressed by perception of negative male appraisal, his only hope is they start eating less, which is not going to happen

    China is getting sicker and sicker

    Which is what one would expect in a population selected for IQ that was mating ever more associatively.

    “[Sewall] Wright noticed something odd: that selecting the best animals for reproduction–Fisher’s formula for breeding success–when repeated over and over for multiple generations, did not always work well to create a superior breed. For example, during ongoing selection to create one trait like beef quality or milk yield, other traits often deteriorate … ”
    *Life Finds a Way, Andreas Wagner (2019) Page 14 “

    Diabetes is associated with Ashkenazi Jews, nuff said.

  10. Escher says:

    The 9-dash like looks to be devoid of any historic merit, considering it was invented in 1936 by a random Chinese guy.

    • Replies: @Showmethereal
  11. Alfa158 says:
    @JohnPlywood

    “ Trump just dropped the hammer on China and this is the inflection point of the second cold war”.
    Trump will be gone in four months. I’m guessing that the Biden administration will continue the same China policy, but I’d like to hear if you think there will be any significant change. Will the new Great Depression and upheavals resulting from the domestic policy changes be too much of a distraction to continue the Cold War?

    • Replies: @animalogic
    , @foolisholdman
  12. @Sean

    … and the one-child policy has cursed China with an 80 million male overhang; historically this has always meant one thing.
    They may have lower testosterone but neither do they have 56 djenndahs to choose from 😀

  13. Anonymous[414] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean

    Like with the wars in Vietnam and Korea, which were clear defeats of the local US ally by China despite massive efforts by an America relatively speaking far more powerful than it is today. The US’s geographic position means it will never be able to project sufficient power across the Pacific Ocean for dominance over China. Fat lot of good the US navy was in Vietnam, eh?

    They weren’t defeats.

    The Chinese and Soviets always advised North Vietnam to negotiate with the US and leave the country divided in half between the communist North and pro-US South. Ho Chi Minh also shared this opinion, but he was old and died in the 60s. His replacement General Secretary Le Duan overruled the Chinese/Soviet advice and insisted on pursuing an invasion to unite the country under communist rule. Le Duan’s offensives were disasters for the North.

    When the US wanted to, it could easily project tremendous firepower, like during Operation Linebacker II.

    • Agree: JohnPlywood
  14. @Sean

    The US broke the Communists backs in Vietnam and Korea, and more importantly, erased the Soviet Union in the Cold War, and Biden is tougher on China than Trump:

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hongkong-protests-usa-election-idUSKBN2426ZR

    https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/06/11/biden-presidential-election-china-trump-asian-americans/

    Beijing actually prefers Trump:

    https://www.businessinsider.com/china-wants-trump-win-election-keep-destroying-us-alliances-bloomberg-2020-6

    A former Chinese trade negotiator told Bloomberg: “If Biden is elected, I think this could be more dangerous for China, because he will work with allies to target China, whereas Trump is destroying US alliances.”

    Joe Biden’s gonna keep running the economic onslaught and RECRUIT allies like Germany rather than abuse them as Trump has.

  15. Sean says:
    @Anonymous

    China did not even have the Bomb when it steamrollered US forces in Korea. Americans in the CIA and Army as well as the government had been confident China would be too scared to do anything about MacArthur’s drive north because they knew they’d by no match for US firepower but such was not the case, and the US had to threaten to us nukes to achieve … what? Vietnam was all about China again, with several hundred thousand Chinese workers replacing the North Vietnamese sent to fight in the South, and the US too scared of provoking another Korea-style Chinese intervention to call up the reserves and fight all out for victory in Vietnam. Operation Linebacker II was ordered by Nixon in order to force the North Vietnamese leadership to accept an American pull out.

    Both in Korea and Vietnam the US came in supremely confident, but ended up happy to disengage without achieving any kind of victory. And in order to stop the Vietnam war Nixon was forced to recognise the North Vietnamese’s main supporter China and give it all sorts of benefits–accelerated under Carter– such as preferential trade status and access to the World Bank loans that eventually built the country into a very real competitor to America, devastator of the heartland and eventually the origin of COVID-19 and Fentanyl. How was any of that a victory for the US in the final analysis? China has won every hand. American strategists have an incredible 100% record on China: 100% wrong.

    • Agree: Steven80
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  16. d dan says:
    @JohnPlywood

    “TSMC is a Taiwanese company, … is basically pro-American and on the Trump side of things…”

    TSMC is not pro-American or pro-Trump. TSMC would like to sell to Huawei and to China. It may be forbidden to sell to them, but that does not mean they prefer not to sell to them. I guess this is too subtle a point for you.

    “Did you guys know China actually spends more money importing computer chips than it does oil? This is how critical processors are to China.”

    LOL. The flip side is that 60% of world market for chips is in China. Try embargo China and all US (and in fact the world) chips companies will be bankrupted.

    Ever wonder why most of US chip companies object to that idiotic sanction? Anti-China clowns usually are not very bright to know all the details or to understand the complexity of supply chains. But you still can keep your potato chip companies though, free of China if you wish.

    “By lowering the De minimis U.S. content rule from 25% to 10% and now down to 1%/zero percent, …”

    The fact that US has to lower its content rule from 25%, to 10%, and then to 1% and yet still could NOT kill a single company called Huawei, shows how weak US technological dominance is today.

    “… China won’t be able to source chips anywhere”

    China already produce a lot of low end and mid-range chips. Trump sanctions will only hasten China’s efforts to upgrade its capacity. Yes, they are trying to make their alternatives to ASML too. A few years from now, people around the world are going to write plenty of articles asking why were Trump and his supporters so stupid, and never learned from history.

    And that is not even counting China’s retaliations that can damage a lot of US industries.

    Lots of misinformation, lies and nonsenses

    “The Chinese century has been cancelled. Buckle up for another 100 years of American hegemonic dominance!!!”

    You should just write this very last sentence INSTEAD of the long post. Even that, I still need to fix something for you:

    “I wish the Chinese century has been cancelled. I dream to buckle up for another 100 years of American hegemonic dominance!!!”

    • Agree: Showmethereal, Alfred
    • Replies: @antibeast
    , @JohnPlywood
  17. Anonymous[200] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean

    There were plenty of intelligence reports that Chinese troops had entered the Korean peninsula and were approaching US forces. They were just ignored by MacArthur and his tight circle of yes men in Tokyo. MacArthur was arrogant and had concentrated power in himself and a small team of loyal yes men in his Tokyo headquarters removed from the field.

    Unlike MacArthur in Korea, the US was not overconfident in Vietnam. It stumbled into Vietnam and Johnson was quite restrained with bombing and firepower. BTW, the US Navy was quite effective in Vietnam. It successfully blockaded South Vietnam, preventing North Vietnam from supplying the Viet Cong in the South by sea, forcing them overland on the Ho Chi Minh trail. The US Navy was also effective at mining the sea to limit Soviet and Chinese naval supplying of North Vietnam.

    Nixon had little interest in Vietnam directly. He was much more interested in the Cold War with the Soviets and China and in domestic politics.

    • Replies: @Johnny Rico
  18. Based Lad says:
    @d dan

    We get it dan, you’re a chicom shill.

    • Troll: d dan
    • Replies: @Anon99
    , @neutral
  19. @Alfa158

    “Will the new Great Depression and upheavals resulting from the domestic policy changes be too much of a distraction to continue the Cold War?”
    That’s a great question.
    The US is now showing declines in GDP (ie -9 % growth/contraction) worse than the old great depression. Where as China is merely showing a decline in existing growth (ie it will likely not enter negative territory). How long these two trends continue may prove significant in the US’s ability or willingness to continue its “Cold War II” policies.
    Every day now suggests that future seismic international-economic-political changes are increasingly possible.

  20. @Anonymous

    “When the US wanted to, it could easily project tremendous firepower, like during Operation Linebacker II.”
    Even allowing this were true in an absolute rather than a relative sense, it ignores the eternal & basic fact that Wars are ultimately about politics — & the US LOST the politics. Some would argue such a lose was inevitable…

  21. Jason Liu says:

    ASEAN and China celebrate 30 years of strong bilateral relations. There’s a strong possibility they will be upgraded to “comprehensive strategic partner” status.

    I’d like that, but it’s extremely unlikely. Half the ASEAN countries are pretty anti-China due to island disputes. Only Cambodia and Myanmar are reliable, maybe Singapore on a good day. Laos, Philippines only have favorable governments and not favorable populace, so it’s not a stable friendship.

    • Replies: @antibeast
    , @Anonymous
  22. @Anonymous

    Nixon had little interest in Vietnam directly. He was much more interested in the Cold War with the Soviets and China and in domestic politics.

    Vietnam WAS the Cold War. How can you separate them?

    How and why he dealt with the Soviets and the Chinese at the time was directly related. And it was directly related to both how the Soviets and the Chinese related with each other and the Cold War.

    The Domino Theory. Remember that?

  23. @Anonymous

    To put it simply, military potential is a function of the size of the economy. And also, China is a permanent member of the Security Council.

    It is hard to predict how current allies will line-up and perform in 10 years.

  24. antibeast says:
    @JohnPlywood

    Here’s a map showing how China’s A2/AD strategy works:

    Economic sanctions are acts of war. Here are some questions for you to ponder:

    1. Is the US Deep State prepared to wage a nuclear WWIII over the SCS?
    2. Is the US Deep State prepared to sacrifice the USA over the SCS?
    3. Is the US Deep State prepared to accept hundreds of millions of casualties over the SCS?
    4. Is the US Deep State prepared to accept hundreds of trillions of economic losses over the SCS?

    The Chinese are fine with the USA deciding NOT to trade/invest with China. But if the USA decides to impose economic sanctions against other countries who trade/invest with China, then China will treat such economic sanctions as acts of war.

    All this silly talk about waging “limited wars” against China is non-sense because there are only two countries in the world today that has the military capability to destroy the USA. One is Russia. Guess which country is the other one.

    • Agree: Alfred
    • Thanks: d dan, Showmethereal
    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Chinaman
  25. antibeast says:
    @Jason Liu

    I’d like that, but it’s extremely unlikely. Half the ASEAN countries are pretty anti-China due to island disputes. Only Cambodia and Myanmar are reliable, maybe Singapore on a good day. Laos, Philippines only have favorable governments and not favorable populace, so it’s not a stable friendship.

    China is the most militarily powerful State in all of Asia. The fact that China has NOT used its military power to impose its will on ASEAN is testament to its peaceful intention of seeking political solutions to whatever territorial disputes it might have with a few ASEAN countries. Apart from its overwhelming military dominance, China also has Asia’s largest industrialized economy which is becoming increasingly integrated into a pan-Asian economy. On top of that, China is also Asia’s leading Civilization-State which will enable the growing cultural integration of the Asian World.

    What about the USA? A financially-insolvent Banana Republic bankrupted by corrupt Wall-Street Oligarchs in cahoots with the US Federal Reserve System printing USD trillions to fund the US War Machine in order to defend the Petrodollar which is maintained by Arab Sheikdoms in the Middle East. With the exception to the Middle East, the USA has no relevance to the Asian region because it is not an Asian country — ipso facto — all Asian countries NEED to live with China but NOT with the USA.

    Militarily, politically, economically and culturally, China — not the USA — is the dominant power in Asia. PERIOD!

  26. antibeast says:
    @d dan

    TSMC is not pro-American or pro-Trump. TSMC would like to sell to Huawei and to China. It may be forbidden to sell to them, but that does not mean they prefer not to sell to them. I guess this is too subtle a point for you.

    “T” in TSMC stands for Taiwan which is part of China not the USA. So it really doesn’t matter whether TSMC is pro-USA or pro-Trump. Xi can annex Taiwan tomorrow and take over its semiconductor industry which has the world’s most advanced manufacturing technology. And there is NOTHING the USA can do about it.

    • Replies: @Anon
  27. @Sean

    The british race has the most to lose in an all out war with China , just imagine the three stolen continents you are on and the other two islands will be vaporised along with the rest of the world do you want to risk that and your prosperity due to the three continent sized countries, china has you by the nads small brained guy.

    • Troll: mike99588
  28. Malla says:
    @antibeast

    If something happens in the South China Sea, India might take this opportunity to move in. The Indian leadership is under pressure to “take revenge” by the hyper-nationalistic masses.

    https://bharatkarnad.com/2020/07/16/dont-miss-this-opportunity-modiji-warn-china-of-military-action-and-execute-it/
    Don’t miss this opportunity, Modiji, warn China of military action and execute it!

    As one Indian commentator said
    https://bharatkarnad.com/2020/06/16/time-for-modi-to-use-the-brahmastra-now-that-military-escalation-is-on-the-cards-due-to-indian-armys-blunder/
    “The nation is thirsty for blood.So standing up to china will surely benefit india and moreover benefit modi and Bjp politically. Fingers crossed ,Mr.Karnad?’

    • Replies: @antibeast
    , @Anon
  29. LOL @ the level of viciousness in the China-troll brigade’s replies.

    “We’ll destroy America if you put economic sanctions on us!!!”

    “We’llvaporise England if you disrespect us again!!!”

    “How dare you not accept our college applicants? We’ve got you by the balls, Australia!!!”

    Yeah, no. In the real world, China buckles before the world and re-assumes the third world status that its government actually merits. They can’t “vaporise” other countries for interfering with their economy, and they can’t take over more successful countries like Taiwan, because, for one, they’re incompetent and weak, and two, without these countries, China’s economy ahrinks and its people starve.

    It’s over for China, folks. Kick and scream, stomp your feet and wish for the “vaporisation” of countries who don’t want to associate with your shitty government, but you’re gonna disappointed.

    Can’t bite the hand that feeds you:

  30. antibeast says:
    @Malla

    East Asians are the real warriors not the brown curries. That’s why East Asians are the ones who conquered the whole Eurasian continent, including India, and not the other way around. Remember this East Asian guy who makes Adolph Hitler look like a cub scout:


    Same with those stupid gringos who now act like ghetto blacks to win back their white girls whose sexual fantasy is to take in BBCs up their white pussies: “Fuck me like an animal!” White sissies who worship a Jew on a Cross can only hate because they don’t have the warrior spirit of East Asians who are born to kill.

    • Troll: Wizard of Oz
  31. @d dan

    Just more laughable denialism and broken English that is typical of a CCP-paid troll.

    I don’t see much worth responding to in this post, but this sad attempt at fortune-telling:

    The fact that US has to lower its content rule from 25%, to 10%, and then to 1% and yet still could NOT kill a single company called Huawei, shows how weak US technological dominance is today.

    …caught my eye.

    Who said Huawei isn’t going to die? TSMC hasn’t even stopped supplying the chips to China yet, and Huawei looks like it is dying.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2019/06/17/huawei-may-pull-honor-20-and-fears-40-60-drop-in-smartphone-sales-report-claims/#2f8c4a6654d2

    Huawei Confirms $30 Billion Revenue Hit As Smartphone Sales Drop 40-60% (Updated)

    The impact Huawei’s blacklisting at the hands of the U.S. will have on its smartphone business has been a hot topic for weeks. The company had just overtaken Apple for the number two spot globally, with only Samsung to catch, when its world changed after losing access to swathes of its hardware and software supply chain. Since then, speculation has continued to mount that the sales decline could be devastating.

    Now Bloomberg has cited internal sources to report that the Shenzhen manufacturer “is preparing for a 40% to 60% drop in international smartphone shipments,” with “sales and marketing managers internally charting a drop in volumes of anywhere between 40 million to 60 million smartphones this year.” Bloomberg also reported that the company is exploring options, including “pulling the latest model of its marquee overseas label, the Honor 20,” if sales are poor, and early indicators, including “two of France’s largest carriers [not] bothering with the Honor at all,” are not promising.

    Now Bloomberg has cited internal sources to report that the Shenzhen manufacturer “is preparing for a 40% to 60% drop in international smartphone shipments,” with “sales and marketing managers internally charting a drop in volumes of anywhere between 40 million to 60 million smartphones this year.” Bloomberg also reported that the company is exploring options, including “pulling the latest model of its marquee overseas label, the Honor 20,” if sales are poor, and early indicators, including “two of France’s largest carriers [not] bothering with the Honor at all,” are not promising.

    “We did not expect that the U.S. would attack us with such determination and on such a large scale, Ren said, adding that despite preparations, “we have been unable to protect some of the secondary parts” of the company. Last year, Huawei continued a flawless decade of growth and broke the $100 billion revenue mark for the first time. That growth record has now been brought to an end, not only will the U.S. action wipe out any growth aspirations this year and next, but it will see the fast-growth consumer business decline sharply bringing the overall topline down as well.

    Meanwhile, TSMC is booming:

    https://pressinsiderdaily.com/2020/07/tsmcs-35-billion-rally-puts-taiwan-stock-index-above-1990-peak/

    TSMC’s $35 Billion Rally Puts Taiwan Stock Index Above 1990 Peak
    Published 7 days ago on July 27, 2020

    https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Huawei-crackdown/TSMC-plans-to-halt-chip-supplies-to-Huawei-in-2-months

    So wait for the new plan to actually take effect… Huawei’s gonna bleed!!!

    • Replies: @d dan
  32. @antibeast

    Actually, antibeast, Genghis Khan may not have been an East Asian (genetically):

    http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_national/765155.html

    Do Genghis Khan and Westerners have a common ancestor?

    Newly published research indicates that Genghis Khan‘s family may not be Mongoloid, as is generally believed, but Caucasoid

    Based on a DNA analysis of bones that likely belonged to the Mongolian royal family, South Korean researchers have concluded that Genghis Khan and Westerners might share a common ancestor.

    “After analyzing the DNA from five bodies discovered in Mongolia in 2004, we concluded that they were members of Genghis Khan’s imperial family from the Mongolian era in the 12th and 13th centuries. We also concluded that these individuals’ patrilineal origins could be the same as the ancestors of Westerners,” said Lee Kwang-ho, the leader of the research team, on Oct. 10. Lee is a professor in the departments of life science and science of cultural heritage at Chung-Ang University.

    Thousands of years before there was a Genghis Khan, East Asia was invaded by successive waves of Europoids, who brought the lifestyle people typically associate with Mongols today (riding around in felt-covered carts, shooting arrows on horseback, worshipping a sky god, etc). Genghis Khan was a descendant of those men, and probably appeared like them: tall, light-haired, blue eyed and bearded.

  33. Malla says:
    @antibeast

    Yeah sure, I respect East Asian warrior spirit. All I am sayin is that India will be looking for a sneaky opportunity against China if something happens on the other side. There is a lot of pressure on the Indian Govt to act against China by the Indian population.

    • Replies: @antibeast
    , @foolisholdman
  34. d dan says:
    @JohnPlywood

    “Who said Huawei isn’t going to die?”

    Trump invoked the “emergency” order to ban Huawei in May 2019. But more than a year after such an “emergency”, and with the full powers of the States, Justice and Defense Departments leaning against it, Huawei not only survives, but emerges to be THE world best known brand. This shows how limited the exceptional superpower’s power is. I guess that is too bitter a pill for an exceptional mind like you?

    TSMC hasn’t even stopped supplying the chips to China yet, and Huawei looks like it is dying.

    Of course, it hasn’t. And if Huawei is such a grave national security that deserves a Presidential “emergency” order, why wait till September 2020 to start the ban? Why not kill it immediately? I guess you never even think about it, a 4-D chess player?

    “Huawei Confirms $30 Billion Revenue Hit As Smartphone Sales Drop 40-60% “

    Nobody is denying that US ban will hurt Huawei’s sales. The question is whether that drop is sufficient to kill Huawei, and the answer is a definite no. There are plenty of reasons, the following is just a partial list:

    1. TSMC will almost do its best to supply Huawei, not only because it is a profitable business, but also because TSMC main market is in China – and it is afraid of Chinese government retaliations.
    2. China based companies like SMIC already produces many low to mid-range chips. They are receiving almost unlimited funding currently to go to 7nm fabrication within a year. That will still be one generation behind TSMC, but it is sufficient to supply Huawei from short to mid terms. It will mean Huawei’s technological lead will be eroded and market share reduced, but it still can ship its products.
    3. Huawei already stocks up more than a year of chips for its 5G products – its most profitable and advanced segment.
    4. Even without the latest chips, Huawei’s smart phone will still dominate China – which is the world’s biggest smartphone market. That alone is sufficient to ensure its survival.
    5. Chinese government will certainly step in to help Huawei financially and in any other way. It will also retaliates against US companies – that will cause many US companies to start lobbying against the ban to Huawei. Chinese government hasn’t done much because it is not sure whether Trump will enforce the ban, or whether a potential Biden Administration will retract that order.
    6. Huawei legacy dominance in 4G, superior technologies and low price, ensures that many of its customers in the world still prefers Huawei products. Changing to different brands will be expensive and technically difficult.
    7. Huawei holds the world’s largest number of 5G patents. Even if Huawei is to stop producing any products tomorrow (an extremely unlike situation given the above reasons), simply collecting its royalty is sufficient to ensure its going concerns. I know Senator Rubio is trying to invalid those patents, but the rest of the world is much more rule-based and law-abiding than those American thugs and the Kangaroo courts.

    “So wait for the new plan to actually take effect… Huawei’s gonna bleed!!!”

    Don’t hold your breath.

  35. Trump invoked the “emergency” order to ban Huawei in May 2019. But more than a year after such an “emergency”, and with the full powers of the States, Justice and Defense Departments leaning against it, Huawei not only survives, but emerges to be THE world best known brand. This shows how limited the exceptional superpower’s power is. I guess that is too bitter a pill for an exceptional mind like you?

    Last year’s blacklist was not the same thing as the unprecedented chip ban implemented through TSMC. The US blacklisting Huawei was a left hook, the chip ban is going to be an uppercut.

    Of course, it hasn’t. And if Huawei is such a grave national security that deserves a Presidential “emergency” order, why wait till September 2020 to start the ban? Why not kill it immediately? I guess you never even think about it, a 4-D chess player?

    Because the US is a courteous and professional world hegemon, unlike China. TSMC is being allowed time to sort their business with China out as they adjust to the new market reality.

    TSMC will almost do its best to supply Huawei, not only because it is a profitable business, but also because TSMC main market is in China – and it is afraid of Chinese government retaliations.

    Nah, nobody outside China fears China anymore. Huawei is not gonna be a profitable business by next year, and the biggest emerging 5G market is the world outside China.

    3. Huawei already stocks up more than a year of chips for its 5G products – its most profitable and advanced segment.
    4. Even without the latest chips, Huawei’s smart phone will still dominate China – which is the world’s biggest smartphone market. That alone is sufficient to ensure its survival.

    I’m afraid not. It’s going to be a terrible next couple of years for smartphone sales due to CORONA:

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/20/coronavirus-smartphone-market-had-the-largest-fall-ever-in-february.html

    Global smartphone shipments dropped 38% annually in February to 61.8 million devices, the largest fall ever in the smartphone market, according to a new report from Strategy Analytics.

    The new data point shows how the COVID-19 coronavirus, which has disrupted daily life and the electronics supply chain in China, will hurt the electronics market.

    The gloomy statistic also foreshadows forthcoming trouble in the smartphone market as other countries have shut down their economies to slow the virus.

    ^ And keep in mind this is only from early 2020. It has gotten worse since.

    The US is also about to ban TikTok, WeChat and other smartphone apps, which is sure to disrupt the market even more; just piling on the death:

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/02/trump-to-take-action-on-chinese-software-firms-in-coming-days-pompeo.html

    Pompeo’s comments come after Trump said on Friday that he would ban TikTok, the Chinese-owned short form video app, via executive action.

    The State Department chief cited TikTok and WeChat, a Chinese messaging app, saying they were “feeding data directly to the Chinese Communist Party.”

    Sucks to be a Chinese smartphone company.

    Huawei legacy dominance in 4G, superior technologies and low price, ensures that many of its customers in the world still prefers Huawei products. Changing to different brands will be expensive and technically difficult.
    7. Huawei holds the world’s largest number of 5G patents. Even if Huawei is to stop producing any products tomorrow (an extremely unlike situation given the above reasons), simply collecting its royalty is sufficient to ensure its going concerns. I know Senator Rubio is trying to invalid those patents, but the rest of the world is much more rule-based and law-abiding than those American thugs and the Kangaroo courts.

    This is essentially just burst-transmission, direct limbic system-to-keyboard coping.

    Huawei no longer has access to TSMC’s superior technology, and the world isn’t going to wait 2 years to go back in time to Huawei’s 4G tech. All of Asia, North America, and increasingly, European countries have turned their backs on China, and no longer trust their software, and don’t want their hardware.

    It’s over for China. China now has to go back to being the country it really is: poor, burdened by a Communist government that cannot feed its people, and non-competitive on a global and even regional scale. You can write back endless responses denying everything and asserting the supremacy of Huawei, but it’s not gonna prevent the inevitable fall of the CCP. What’s about to unfold is going to blow your mind, and your diaper.

    • Replies: @d dan
    , @Alfred
    , @foolisholdman
  36. Anonymous[209] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean

    Wall Street wants profits, and they and their minions in the media are backing Biden.

    “Top CEOs ramp up GOP donations as Biden threatens to scale back corporate tax cuts”

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/27/top-ceos-give-big-to-gop-as-biden-threatens-to-scale-back-corp-tax-cuts.html

    The CEOs of some of the biggest companies in the United States have started ramping up their donations to Republican causes as concern grows about Joe Biden’s plan to raise the corporate tax rate.

    Of the top 10 political donors among S&P 500 CEOs, a majority gave big to GOP groups in the second quarter, according to data from the Center for Responsive Politics. The development comes as the presumptive Democratic nominee has expanded his lead in the polls over President Donald Trump.

    As Trump and other Republicans slide in the polls, the idea that taxes could go up under a Democratic administration and Congress has forced GOP donors off the sidelines, according to people helping raise money for GOP organizations. Biden has said he wants to raise the corporate tax rate to 28% from 21%…

    Dan Eberhart, a longtime prominent Republican donor, told CNBC he senses that wealthy financiers are going to start lining up behind Trump.

    • Thanks: Sean
  37. AnonCN says:
    @JohnPlywood

    You remind me some black people claim that Beethoven, Da Vinci, Voltaire…etc. are black. Maybe Socrates and Plato are also black in that theory. LOL
    I wondered where did these people learn this tactic. Now I get the answer, they learn it from white.
    Nice job! Shameless is infective.
    Anyway, your history is full of lies and your ‘research’ is hijacked to serve politic needs.
    So go ahead. Keep on lie to yourself to feel good about yourself. Who gives a f***.

  38. antibeast says:
    @JohnPlywood

    Thousands of years before there was a Genghis Khan, East Asia was invaded by successive waves of Europoids, who brought the lifestyle people typically associate with Mongols today (riding around in felt-covered carts, shooting arrows on horseback, worshipping a sky god, etc). Genghis Khan was a descendant of those men, and probably appeared like them: tall, light-haired, blue eyed and bearded.

    If you’re talking about Indo-Iranian tribes such as the Scythians, Bactrians, Sogdians, etc who either traveled or settled along the ancient Silk Road, then that would have been around 1000-500BCE. Their descendants did intermix with native East Asians but got pushed out after the Xiongnu Confederation was formed. The Huns were reportedly descendants of the Xiongnus who moved West towards Europe which paved the way for successive waves of East Asian warrior-nomadic tribes to expand Eastward. Genghis Khan was born in 1162 which happened more than 1,500 years after East Asians pushed Indo-Iranians out of the Eurasian Steppe. That timeframe would have been too long to have had any effect on Genghis Khan who didn’t seem to care about either Caucasians or Europeans whom he slaughtered en-masse.

    Anyway, this study claims that Adolph Hitler had African and Jewish genes:

    https://www.history.com/news/study-suggests-adolf-hitler-had-jewish-and-african-ancestors

  39. antibeast says:
    @Malla

    Yeah sure, I respect East Asian warrior spirit. All I am sayin is that India will be looking for a sneaky opportunity against China if something happens on the other side. There is a lot of pressure on the Indian Govt to act against China by the Indian population.

    The Chinese respect ancient India as the origin and source of ancient religions such as Buddhism which greatly benefited China. That’s the rationale behind my comment regarding Indians not having a warrior-spirit because of Indian historical preoccupation with metaphysical transcendence rather than military conquests. That’s not necessarily pejorative but an acknowledgment of the fundamental differences between East Asian and Indian Civilizations. My comment was also intended for Western readers who often mistake Confucian civility and humility as a sign of East Asian meekness and weakness. Outside of geopolitics, Chinese has no beef with India and Indians, both as a nation and a civilization.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Malla
    , @Malla
  40. Great writing as usual Mr Escobar. I wonder why the NY Times and Washington Post and Wall St Journal dont pick this up. But one thing you left out is that the west all agreed to the Republic of China controlling all the Spratley islands. Japan had to sign them over in the Treaty of Taipei. Beijing doesn’t refer to it because it was signed by the government in Taiwan – but they should – just to point out the hypocrisy of the west – who controlled Japan at the time.

  41. @Larry Romanoff

    True – though China did push Vietnam off all the Paracels. That was too close for comfort. South Vietnam begged for US help but it was denied. China was much weaker then. Makes you wonder the psychosis in Washington to challenge China now.

    As to Diayou/Senkaku… That is another case of psychosis. The DPP leaders still take marching orders from Washington but Taiwan was and still is fuming that the US would give away territory to Japan that they claim as part of the Republic of China. That should be clear to them that they are pawns as well

  42. @JohnPlywood

    Mongol tradition has always held Temujin was “of the grey-eyed Kyuts”, so no surprise.

    • Replies: @Tor597
  43. anon[228] • Disclaimer says:
    @antibeast

    Was there a time in the documented history of India when it was not fighting conquering and enlarging its domain ? Do you think the current Hindu Muslim Hindu Christian Hindu Dalit Hindu Sikh fights are something new ? The media’s scope and influences form TV ,print media,online established media , and social media like Facebook and Whats App serve today similar purposes the nascent religious resurgence in post Murya empire served through public display of religion ,elaboration of religious ceremonies and popularization of old mythologies through PURANA.
    India at various times stretched to Afghanistan , to Sri Lnaka ,Maldives, Indonesia, Camboida ,Thailand . Some of these enterprises became independent of the mother country but never stopped bringing the upper ruling class from India .

    Warrior spirit is ephemeral transient and is subject to patronage . Bengal itself being the fountainhead of rebellion against British in 1857 soon lost the warrior spirit to Sikh and Nepalese brought to military service by British .

    • Replies: @antibeast
  44. d dan says:
    @JohnPlywood

    “Because the US is a courteous and professional world hegemon, unlike China. TSMC is being allowed time to sort their business with China out as they adjust to the new market reality.”

    Yes, I am going to kill you (or rob your business), but I promise to kill you ONLY after 3 months – this shows that I am so “courteous and professional”. Sounds like thuggish logic to me. The fact that you can’t even see this shows how perverted the exceptional mind is.

    The fact remains: US wants to kill Huawei, VERY, VERY badly, and IMMEDIATELY – but it couldn’t do it without damaging some of its own corporate interests. That is why it hesitates. Immoral 4D chess player can’t see this, of course.

    “Nah, nobody outside China fears China anymore.”

    LOL. Only an exceptional mind thinks that China cares about this.

    “…biggest emerging 5G market is the world outside China… It’s going to be a terrible next couple of years for smartphone sales due to CORONA:”

    May or may not be true. But that is a worldwide problem. It will hurt Samsung and Apple as much as Huawei.

    “Huawei no longer has access to TSMC’s superior technology, …”

    The so-called TSMC’s superior technology contains less than 10% American technologies – otherwise there is no need to lower the limit of the ban from 10% to 1%. Go figure how difficult for China or TSMC to replace that few percentage technologies.

    “All of Asia, North America, and increasingly, European countries have turned their backs on China, and no longer trust their software, and don’t want their hardware.”

    hahaha, Pompeo told you? You (like the fat dumb Pompeo) don’t understand how difficult for telco companies to change vendor, and you don’t care because you don’t have to come up with the billions $ for the transition. So you just keep daydreaming…

    Of course, consumers and companies “hate” Chinese products so much that Trump has to impose 25% tariffs and yet still can’t narrow the trade gaps. Trump has to repeatedly revises his bans on Huawei, DJI, ZTE, etc and yet they still survive. Trump and his ilks has to threaten, coerce, sanction even US own allies and yet countries like Germany, France, South Korea etc still allow the use of Huawei. Trump has to consider banning Tik Tok because it is so popular among young people….

    “It’s over for China. China now has to go back to being the country it really is: poor, …”

    Frankly, you sound like yet another jealous neighbor of China who can’t deal with facts.

    • Agree: foolisholdman
    • Replies: @mike99588
    , @ThreeCranes
  45. @JohnPlywood

    What you are saying is true about US strategy is true – but the problem is that there are serious flaws in the argument. First off the EUV machine that the US strong armed ASML to not sell to any Chinese company is NOT required to make 7nm chips. It makes it faster but is not necessary. Samsung and TSMC both were making 7nm before they used the EUV. In case you didnt know many TSMC (and even some Korean engineer s) have gone to SMIC and other mainland Chinese vhip companies. That is why the progress has been so fast. SMIC is on track to make 7nm in a year and is currently already doing 14nm. So you are incorrect. It is absolutely possible to escape the gangsterism of Trump/Navarro policy on anything 7nm and above. For 5nm and 3nm you will indeed need the EUV. Here is the thing…. China moves faster than the US and Europe. It is no secret that there are several lithography projects going on in mainland China and that Taiwan engineers keep moving there. Some its just for the money – but make no mistake for others it is defintely ethnic pride and not wanting their cousins across the Strait to be bullied by Washington.
    As to Huawei – you are again mistaken. Huawei phones and 5G base stations now have ZERO US components. So how long before you think the lock will be broken on semiconductor tools and lithography. You bring up AI but you fail to realize even the NY Times had to admit that almost 1/3 of the gop AI researchers in the US are Chinese nationals. If they leave -what do you think will happen in the AI race? In many cases China is already ahead. Even if China misses the 5 and 3 nm race – what happens in 10 years? Look at the current PISA scores in math and science for 15 year old students around the world. It js the US that needs Chinese students to keep going to US university programs and not the other way around. You might want to check and see the STEM grads by each cou try per year. So while the Trump/Navarro/Pompeo sounds good on paper for a movie script – in real life it will be difficult. Japan was stifled by the US in the 80’s but China is not a US militarily occupied country like Japan. China has ten times the population of Japan. The same tactics wont work.
    Space is a perfect example. Just in the past 2 years China completed a global satellite navigation that is more accurate than GPS – sent a lunar rover to the far side of the moon which was unexplored – it added critical steps to its own space station launch – and just sent a multi mission oribiter and rover to Mars. It did all that with NO US components. Why? The US banned China from working with NASA. Japan works with the US but hasnt advanced its space program as far as China has. Was that a good idea for the US?

    Friendship is better than gangsterism.

    Some of the stuff you said again is lunacy. If Huawei gets its patents invalidated do you seriously not think US companies will lose theirs in China? Are you serious??? For many companies China is ome of their top 2 markets. Do you know what would happen???

    One thing i agree with you though is Chinese people are foolish for eating American fast food. I would also add for following the SUV trend from the US also.

    • Agree: d dan, antibeast
    • Thanks: Steven80
  46. @Escher

    Actually it was an 11 dash line and it was done with full gleeful approval by the US who was expecting the Republic of China to remain its ally. The US provided the ships to aurvwy the sea and draw the lines as well as for them to claim Taiping Island. Look it up.

  47. Malla says:
    @antibeast

    Outside of geopolitics, Chinese has no beef with India and Indians, both as a nation and a civilization.

    That is good to hear but the masses in India have turned extremely anti-Chinese and probably will always remain so now. Most look at the PRC as a imperialist country and we the fighters for freedom. Tarek Fatah even said that the Chinese are the new Nazis to be crushed.

    It is in Hindi but in the first few minutes he has already painted the Chinese as the new racist Nazi imperialists and implying we the Indians, sons of the soils who will bring arrogant Chinese down. He claims that Chinese at a cultural level consider us Indians (as well as Africans etc…) as subhuman. He claims Chinese have racist DNA.

    What he says is B.S. of course, but this narrative is gonna spread now. It is the Indian media which played a big part in riling the people up.

    My opinion is China does not want anything against India but the Indian deep state is slyly riling up the people against China via B.S. This is without the USA even getting involved. All nations use some form of propaganda amongst their people, it is essential in statecraft, but this is crazy level.

  48. antibeast says:
    @anon

    Was there a time in the documented history of India when it was not fighting conquering and enlarging its domain? Do you think the current Hindu Muslim Hindu Christian Hindu Dalit Hindu Sikh fights are something new? The nascent religious resurgence in post Murya empire served through public display of religion, elaboration of religious ceremonies and popularization of old mythologies through PURANA.

    The largest Empires in Indian history are Maurya Empire, British Raj, Mughal Empire, Gupta Empire, Delhi Sultanate and Maratha Empire. Of those six, three (British Raj — European/Christian, Mughal Empire — Turkic-Mongol/Islamic and Delhi Sultanate — Turkic/Islamic) are foreign-ruled while the other three (Maurya Empire – Buddhist, Gupta Empire — Hindu and Maratha Empire —Hindavi Swarajya ) are native-ruled. For Hindus, the Golden Age of India would probably be the Gupta Empire when the Puranas were officially compiled. Hinduism reached the Southeast Asian Kingdoms of Cambodia, Thailand and Indonesia through trade and diplomacy. For Buddhists, the Golden Age of India would be the Maurya Empire when Ashoka the Great adopted and promoted Buddhism to Sri Lanka, Central Asia and Southeast Asia. For Indian nationalists, the Golden Age of India would be the Maratha Empire which had succeeded in ending Islamic rule of the Mughal Empire and promoted Hindavi Swarajya or Indian self-rule. Outside of these Empires, India was mostly a continent of disparate Kingdoms, Principalities, tribes, clans and various peoples divided by language, culture, religion, ideology, ethnicity, caste, region, history, etc. That they managed to get along together outside of a centralized State implies a high degree of cultural heterogeneity and political autonomy for mutually independent peoples living in the same sub-continent.

    India at various times stretched to Afghanistan, to Sri Lanka, Maldives, Indonesia, Cambodia, Thailand. Some of these enterprises became independent of the mother country but never stopped bringing the upper ruling class from India.

    With the exception of the Chola Dynasty which colonized Sri Lanka and the Maldives, most of the cultural influences of India (Buddhism/Hinduism) spread via trade and diplomacy to Central, East Asia and Southeast Asia. India was constantly being colonized by foreign invaders while Indians were spreading their religions to other regions of Asia. This is probably due to the Indian proclivity for metaphysical pursuits giving rise to a wide variety of indigenous religions.

    Warrior spirit is ephemeral transient and is subject to patronage. Bengal itself being the fountainhead of rebellion against British in 1857 soon lost the warrior spirit to Sikh and Nepalese brought to military service by British .

    The warrior spirit is ephemeral in non-warrior cultures because it manifests itself only as a violent reaction to either internal pressures or external aggression. The Bengal rebellion of 1857 is a good example of the transient nature of that violent reaction to the widespread famines and diseases which occurred in Bengal under British rule.

    But East Asia is different because China had been fighting warrior-nomadic tribes for almost its entire history since the warrior State of Qin politically unified the Chinese Empire whose founder called himself Qin Shi Huang Di. All the other East Asians copied the warrior ethos of the Qin State which politically unified the whole of China by military conquest. When those East Asian warrior-nomadic tribes — Huns, Turks, Mongols — couldn’t defeat the Chinese Empire, they moved West and founded their own vast Empires. But unlike the Chinese Empire, those East Asian tribes were illiterate barbarians who later adopted the language (Persian, Arabic), culture (Turkic) and religion (Islam) of their conquered subjects as part of the larger Islamic Civilization.

    • Replies: @Malla
  49. Anonymous[261] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jason Liu

    On the other hand, the only South East Asian nation sure to oppose China would be Vietnam.
    And only if their territory is directly violated. Vietnam is not going to join some “grand coalition to contain China as a matter of high principle” or something similar.

    The Philippine population is increasingly, solidly NEUTRAL regarding both the United States and China. Maybe 15 years ago, they would have been onboard; now and in the future? Don’t bet on it. Their social media and traditional media are increasingly willing to air China’s points of view, and their people are beginning to have extensive dealings and positive awareness of China.

    You can count both Malaysia and Indonesia out. Increasing cultural, business and geopolitical connections mean that they are slightly leaning towards China even now, and more in the future. Ditto for Thailand, which also does not particularly like Vietnam’s hegemonic aspirations in South East Asia, with their country on the front line.

    Who will initiate conflict with China?

    The United States (current global hegemon), Japan (smarting over losing its position as Asia’s strongest power), possibly Australia (reluctant to be the lone Western nation in the region, Australian elites may see parallels with South Africa’s fate), and the United Kingdom (playing the part of great power, and barely having learned from their experience in the Middle East following the U.S. lead).

    That’s it. Let’s not be delusional and think the world desires to take down China, and form a coalition against it. Too much trade, business and cooperation for that to happen.

    China’s demise is a peculiarly American obsession.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
    , @Malla
    , @Tor597
  50. @JohnPlywood

    Mostly you’re right – the Troll commenters notwithstanding.
    The important thing is to not cause a war with China. Allowing everything you are saying to happen naturally, fine, but do it without causing a war.
    Box China in economically – show a hand willing to stand on the S.China Sea, and China has to find another way to exert the pressure/hot-air.
    Expect significant escalations on its other border conflicts – fighting a border conflict to a draw, but “losing” the S. China Sea, at least in a diplomatically-kick-the-can-down-the-road fashion, averts both nuclear war and a face-losing escapade asserting itself against the US.

    • Troll: d dan, Herald
  51. There’s absolutely no way the US Pacific Fleet can win a shooting war in the South China Sea.

    Incorrect.
    And the PRC CCP and PLAN know this, whether this author knows it or not.

    That said under no circumstances should a nuclear exchange be risked, and inviting or causing conventional war invites a nuclear exchange.

    Conventionally though – China cannot win in the S. China Sea.

    • Replies: @d dan
  52. @Anonymous

    I agree with most of your comment. In ASEAN – it is indeed only Vietnam that has even the slightest desire to fight with China. People get confused because ethnic Chinese sometimes get discriminated against in those countries – but that has nothing to do with their geo-political stances. Those same ASEAN countries were glad in 1979 when China attacked Vietnam… The only other group potentially would be the Filipinos. The older generation – as if often the case of former colonies – relates to the US (and even Spain to a level)… Many also still rely on remittances from family in the US. But Duterte is still very popular. Part of his platform is pivoting away from the west. Just in this past week – he re-iterated he will take part in no military exercise to try to intimidate China with the US. He said in his usual blunt talk – they can’t possibly stand up to China and they have no desire to join with someone else to fight where Filipinos will have to face the brunt of fighting. (Similarly in East Asia – South Korea’s Moon got elected partly on his platform of stop letting their country to be used to antagonize China – and stop further THAAD deployments).

    The part I disagree with is that you left out India. There is a mix of inferiority complex and delusions of grandeur there toward China. They also are upset that China is friendly with Pakistan. They would try to join in.

    • Replies: @Malla
  53. Anon[189] • Disclaimer says:
    @antibeast

    there are only two countries in the world today that has the military capability to destroy the USA.

    Yeah, and I suppose those two countries could destroy the USA effortlessly, with no ecological problems, no nuclear fallout, no nuclear winter. They could snap their fingers and effortlessly cause the USA to vanish, while they went on with their business, unharmed. It’s amazing that the defenseless USA has lasted this long, existing only on the sufferance of such titans.

    • Replies: @antibeast
  54. Anon[189] • Disclaimer says:
    @antibeast

    “T” in TSMC stands for Taiwan which is part of China

    Oh, I get it. You’re a Maoist.

    not the USA. So it really doesn’t matter whether TSMC is pro-USA or pro-Trump. Xi can annex Taiwan tomorrow and take over its semiconductor industry which has the world’s most advanced manufacturing technology.

    Nope.

    Even if the PRC manages to invade Taiwan successfully, even if they manage to seize the infrastructure unharmed, they won’t be able to make it run properly as soon as they turn the key. The workings of a modern chip factory are very, very complicated. Furthermore, Taiwan’s chip factories are intimately tied to foreign experts, and many/most of Taiwan’s experts will not be eager to be assimilated into the Maoist utopia. At best the PRC would deny Taiwanese chips to the civilized world for years, then perhaps it could save face by getting the factories to run at great expense and with low efficiency.

    However — Taiwan’s chip factories are not guaranteed to survive an invasion. If Taiwan’s government has the choice of surrendering the factories intact or burning them down as a scorched-earth policy, they might well go for scorched-earth.

    And then recall — Taiwan has some extremely defensible beaches. Even if it just gives the PRC a black eye when the PRC uses human-wave tactics to roll over it, the PRC’s military will be humiliated. A nation of 23 million humiliating a nation of more than a billion – that would put a dent in PRC hubris.

  55. d dan says:
    @Simplepseudonymichandle

    “Conventionally though – China cannot win in the S. China Sea.”

    Lots of chest thumping – an obviously ignorant troll like JohnPlywood.

    Both of you know ZERO thing about China. Both aren’t aware of Pentagon’s own assessments and US military think tank’s studies (e.g. Rand’s reports). Therefore, both of you probably don’t understand the threats of ballistic, cruise or hypersonic missiles to carriers and how advance China is in those areas. Both of you don’t even understand other Asians thinking (e.g. “TSMC … is basically pro-American and on the Trump side of things…”), and blindly believe US has the moral grounds and popular supports to interfere in South China Sea (e.g. “…to stand on the S.China Sea”). Both make unsubstantiated accusations against China (e.g. “China has to find another way to exert the pressure/hot-air.”) and attribute statements to China (e.g. “We’llvaporise England if you disrespect us again!!!”) without evidence/context/proper translations, … and so on.

    The arrogance and brainwashed state of both your minds are not only embarrassing, but clear and present danger to the peoples of America, China and to the peace of the world.

  56. d dan says:
    @Anon

    “Even if the PRC manages to invade Taiwan successfully, even if they manage to seize the infrastructure unharmed, they won’t be able to make it run properly as soon as they turn the key. The workings of a modern chip factory are very, very complicated.”

    This is the most silly reason I ever heard to invade Taiwan. It shows how little you China-haters know about China, about Taiwan, about Asia, or even about US.

    • Replies: @anon
  57. anon[105] • Disclaimer says:
    @d dan

    You’re not replying to the main point. Go back and read John Plywood again:

    https://www.unz.com/pescobar/the-heart-of-the-matter-in-the-south-china-sea/#comment-4071375

    John Plywood mentioned chips and antibeast claimed that the PRC could seize everything, including the chips (although antibeast was distracted by his “Taiwan is part of China” shilling and didn’t address John Plywood’s point).

    This is the most silly reason I ever heard to invade Taiwan.

    You are not qualified to judge which invasion causes are “silly” and which are not.

    It shows how little you China-haters know about China,

    I’m sure you know a lot about the people who pay you to shill. That doesn’t mean your knowledge is worthwhile.

    • Replies: @d dan
  58. d dan says:
    @anon

    “John Plywood mentioned chips and antibeast claimed that the PRC could seize everything, including the chips”

    You are the one who should read the comment more carefully. Firstly, antibeast was replying to me, not John Plywood. Secondly, antibeast never claimed that taking over the semiconductor is the reason for an invasion, but rather, as a way to foil US plan to isolate China.

    although antibeast was distracted by his “Taiwan is part of China” shilling

    Of course, Taiwan is part of China – it is recognized in the Constitutions of both ROC and PRC – the ultimate laws in the greater China. Who are you, a foreigner, to decide that for the Chinese?

    didn’t address John Plywood’s point.

    John Plywood’s point that China will not get any chips has been thoroughly answered and destroyed in several comments by myself and various posters above. None of you China-haters know enough to comment about China’s capability.

    “You are not qualified to judge which invasion causes are “silly” and which are not.”

    But foreigners like you (and John Plywood) that exhibits utter contempt to the Chinese people and ignorance are qualified?

    “I’m sure you know a lot about the people who pay you to shill. That doesn’t mean your knowledge is worthwhile.”

    Firstly, you know ZERO thing about me, just like you know ZERO thing about China. Secondly, whether my knowledge and comment is worthwhile depends on the soundness of my argument, the factual basis that it is based on, and the logic of the reasoning. Finally, you are not the final arbiter to the debates. There are other readers who can read and think.

    • Agree: Herald
  59. @JohnPlywood

    Your opinions differ from the wumao, so you must be a troll! Ha ha

    Nobody here knows the future, but the facts that are presented indicate that a prolonged struggle is happening and will continue.

    The Chinese, obviously, are not immune to the ruling class use of jingoism to stir nationalist sentiment (and to divert attention). It makes the people feel strong and proud. It even makes the PLA dance as seen here:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/nikki_miumiu/status/1290106242203975680

    • Replies: @d dan
  60. mike99588 says:
    @d dan

    The US lead in hydrological self control, edible food, and nukes seems enough for now…
    Russia appears to realize the CCP’s all ravenous threat, so that axis weakens.
    “Sorry” about the 400s

    A thoroughly CCP borg conrolled/compromised 5G network would have been a disaster. After all, Americans may already be outnumbered by CCP trolls on some blogs in the US.
    Sino-site-itis…

    A somewhat civil multiasian hegemon may be acceptable to US and will certainly pass US later anyway.
    The current CCP hegemon is likely to make blood and the SCS boil with the same success as the Kaiser’s Germany vs UK- the US got an almost paid free ride back then. Advanced in some areas is not enough …

  61. d dan says:
    @true.enough

    “Your opinions differ from the wumao, so you must be a troll! Ha ha”

    JohnPlywood and the various anti-China commenters are trolls not because their opinions differ from mine, but because they are ignorant of China. Their sweeping statements are groundless, their charges unfounded, their logic faulty and their predictions wishful. All their arguments have been rebutted completely by various commenters.

    Furthermore, JohnPlywood and some have malign intent for China and utter bad wishes for Chinese. He insults the people. He believes that US can and should go halfway around the world to interfere and to contain China, with regards to South China Sea disputes or Taiwan. He believes that US can and should tear up the supply chain arrangement and agreements built up over the decades among willing partners from Asia and even America. He does not considered it immoral to threaten and destroy companies, even it means breaking existing rules, international norms, WTO agreements, business contracts, practices or ethic.

    He, like Pompeo, Bannon and Navarro and the likes, are the real traitors to US and threats to the American and Chinese peoples.

    • Agree: Herald, foolisholdman
  62. The Potsdam Declaration of 1945, which set out the Allied Powers’ terms for Japan’s surrender, deprived Japan of all its overseas territories. Taiwan was a Japanese territory that was freed after World War II. The nearby Ryukyu Islands that include the large island of Okinawa were also a territory the Japanese empire had invaded in 1872 and imposed its language and culture. One-third of Okinawa’s population was killed during the American invasion in 1945, yet it was not freed. The Treaty of San Francisco in 1951 granted these islands to the United States so the US military could seize land to build a massive military base complex that displaced 250,000 Okinawans; almost half the population. Objections to the large US military presence continues to grow as Okinawans refuse to accept a perpetual occupation by foreign troops.

    I recently produced a mini-doc about this ignored topic. China and other nations never accepted the American ploy of returning these islands to Japan:

    • Agree: showmethereal
    • Replies: @showmethereal
  63. @Anonymous

    The Chinese and Soviets always advised North Vietnam to negotiate with the US and leave the country divided in half between the communist North and pro-US South. Ho Chi Minh also shared this opinion, but he was old and died in the 60s.

    This is fake history. Ho Chi Minh was elected as President of all of Vietnam in 1956 and the temporary division of Vietnam ended as dictated by the Geneva Accords. The United States attempted to establish a colony in Southern Vietnam and failed. The “DMZ” and “South Vietnam” were creations of the CIA/Pentagon propaganda machine.

    • Agree: Tor597
    • Thanks: Biff, mike99588
  64. Malla says:
    @Anonymous

    reluctant to be the lone Western nation in the region, Australian elites may see parallels with South Africa’s fate

    Australia would not face any South African fate if they had not allowed large scale immigration of Asians in the first place. The Australian deep state themselves allowed large scale immigration, so if they are afraid of South Africa’s fate, they are idiots. If they Govt of Australia were scared of SA like fate, they would had been more restrictive in granting citizenship and allowing immigrants, which is easy.
    Australia has deep links with the USA, that is how it is. Australia, the UK and even Japan follow the USA most of the times because of their deep links with each other. It is as simple as that.

  65. Chinaman says:
    @Sean

    Time is of the essence, so we need a war, and the sooner the better. But the first order of business is to reach an understanding with Russi

    The chinaman agrees on war but disagree on timing.

    It takes a decade to prepare for war and if China stop exporting to America tmr, America will basically collapses so I don’t think it is in America’s best interest for war now. We would already be at war now if not the fact the 2 countries are still too tightly coupled. The cheap goods are like opium that the Brits export to China 150 years ago. Payback. On the other hand, China faces many other issues, demographics being the most critical, so this might shift the balance back to the US if it rejuvenated its manufacturing ( although I am not optimistic). Both countries are facing a demographic timebomb. China from rapid ageing and America from racial makeup and low IQ birthdate, Average IQ drops by 2-5 points per decade in the US.

    Ultimately, I think China have already won so it is just a matter of time. We all know America is on an unsustainable path and imploding. The question is whether it will try to bring the rest of the world down with it. ( very likely)

    I should point out that The Thucydides trap assume 2 power vying for dominance but preclude countries on the sideline. UK and Germany both lost in WW2. America won. No one thought it will work out that way. This trap is not only infantile but arrive at the wrong conclusion about the outcome.

    India might end up being the preeminent power in this century.

    • Replies: @Sean
    , @Herald
  66. Malla says:
    @antibeast

    When those East Asian warrior-nomadic tribes — Huns, Turks, Mongols — couldn’t defeat the Chinese Empire,

    Wait didn’t the Mongols conquer China? Yuan Dynasty?

    India too has a history of invasion of Central Asians like Scythians to Kushans.

    This is probably due to the Indian proclivity for metaphysical pursuit

    This is true, but there are populations on the North Western side of the Indian subcontinent where many warlike martial populations are found such as the Sikhs, Rajputs, Marathas, Jats, Pathans/Pastuns (on the border of South Asia). Indeed India has itself faced constant threats of Afghan invasions, permanently stopped only by the British Empire. Also India has faced extreme brutal Islamic invasions (nothing of the like China faced) fiercely fought back by some local Hindu kings.

    The Bengal rebellion of 1857 is a good example of the transient nature of that violent reaction to the widespread famines and diseases which occurred in Bengal under British rule.

    The Bengal rebellion was the mutiny of the Bengal army of the British East India Company later joined by Maratha princes. It had more to do with religion than anything else. The mutiny was triggered with the rumour that the Army cartridges which had to be bitten off was smeared with Beed and Pork fat, Cows being holy to Hindus and Pork being considered Haram for Muslims. The Muslim mutineers later tried to recreate the Mughal Empire using the old last Mughal Emperor Bahadur Shah Zafar only as a figure head. The Maratha princes who joined in was because they were pissed because the British EIC stopped paying them their stipends.
    The British East India Company had three big armies in India. The Bengal Army, the Bombay Army and the Madras Army.
    Also worth noting is that the British EIC Bombay Army in the West and British EIC Madras Army in the South refused to mutiny. Many Indians like the Sikhs and Gurkhas supported the British. Partly because they did not want the Mughal Empire to come back. AThe Sikhs had nursed a serious grudge against the Purbias (Easterners-Biharis and Bengalis who filled the ranks of the Bengal Army) for insults and mistreatment once the British Bengal Army had conquered the Punjab from the Sikhs. So when these guys rebelled, the Sikhs had no interest in helping them.
    Each sub-group in the rebellion had its own agenda, the Hindu Marathas wanted to re-establish their Maratha Empire, the Muslims wanted the Mughal Emperor back and so on and so forth. Thus there was a lot of “conflict of interest” in-between the main factions fighting against the British.

    Besides, it is a well-accepted view that the risings in 1857 were just revolts by the princes to regain their feudal or territorial rights. The Cis-Satluj chiefs of Patiala, Malerkotla, Kalsia, Nabha, Faridkot and Jind, along with their mercenary forces, rendered full help to the British in suppressing the rebellion. These chiefs owed their existence to the British and were always outside the main Punjab, being hostile to Sikh king Ranjit Singh. They still remembered with gratitude the support extended to them by the British against Maharaja Ranjit Singh. But for the British protection, Ranjit Singh would have easily overpowered them long ago.

    Indian leaders decided to call the Mutiny of 1857 as “The first war of Independence”, which in reality was the last war of Mughals. It was after the mutiny, that Queen Victoria became the Queen Empress of India and the last Mughal Emperor was de-throned.

    • Replies: @antibeast
    , @antibeast
  67. Chinaman says:
    @antibeast

    Is the US Deep State prepared to accept hundreds of millions of casualties over the SCS?

    There is no group of people more dangerous than white psychopaths driven by ideological fervour. Nazis being the prime example. The genocide of the native Indians amounted to tens of millions. Hundreds of millions doesn’t even keep up with inflation since WW2. It is not just racism, Genocidal tendencies are ingrained in white people’s DNA.

    The US remain the only country to have used nukes even though we know it was unnecessary to defeat the Jap. They were using Jap as guniea pigs this new weapon.

    The deep state will probably feel it make sense for a nuclear reset given 50% of the population is non white in the next 2 decade.

    • Replies: @antibeast
  68. Tor597 says:
    @true.enough

    Wow. What projection we have here.

    As if America respects international law. America doesn’t even hide that it overthrows governments it doesn’t like.

    And who is friends with America and who toes the line with America because they have to?

  69. Tor597 says:
    @Sean

    Yeah, Russia is going to join the west in toppling China just so the west can topple Russia immediately afterwards.

    That is some wishful thinking there. It is actually more likely that the west is going to be broken up instead.

    Germany and Japan have a huge amount to lose by turning against China and not much to gain. Meanwhile, once the dollar loses its status as the reserve currency what use does an alliance with America bring.

  70. Tor597 says:
    @nokangaroos

    White people are really desperate to prove that they can only be beaten by one of their own superior race lol.

    • Agree: showmethereal
    • Replies: @nokangaroos
  71. GMC says:

    The main game, is to get the US off the back of the rest of the world. It doesn’t matter who can destroy who with nukes, but who can bring some sanity back to the countries that have been destroyed by America and its bought off or blackmailed allies. Russia, China and few others, seem to be the only ones capable of starting this badly needed Era. And so, the people of all countries need to come together and see the light – instead of the Western Darkness called the One World Order. Keep posting the Truth, Pravda etc. Thanks Unz.

  72. Anon99 says:
    @Based Lad

    Any time someone brings up positive points about China, it’s Chicom this or wumao that. You guys are like snotty playground kids just making annoying noises. The West is sure going to far with your valuable insights.

  73. neutral says:
    @Based Lad

    I get it is as well. Your “based” name is just a fraudulent attempt to hide your stock standard anti white neocon garbage narratives.

  74. Malla says:
    @antibeast

    My comment was also intended for Western readers who often mistake Confucian civility and humility as a sign of East Asian meekness and weakness.

    I understand. Similar to how, many browns and blacks mistake Western / White/Anglo gentlemanly-ness to White meekness and weakness, only to learn the hard way that it is opposite. It seems, in this respect Whites are like niggers and wogs compared to East Asians especially North East Asians.

  75. Malla says:
    @Sean

    If a dominant US Navy enabled effective force projection in mainland China, it would never have gone communist in the first place.

    LOL, The USA (Rockefellars) in those days supported Mao behind the scenes and back stabbed the KMT.

    Korea and Japan are heading the same way, although they pretend to be US allies in order to get preferential access to the US market.

    I doubt Korea and Japan will ever go the way of Taiwan. However in the long run a NATO like alliance in between a nuclear armed Japan, nuclear armed united Korea and China is the best for the region. Maybe include Vietnam and Mongolia too. This block could also have some kinds of wider defense partnerships with ASEAN nations as well as Russia and Australia/NZ. If a good understanding is had in between the three major North East Asian powers as well as others, it would be the best for this region and the USA has no business to be here. India (as it is planning) trying to enter the South China Sea fiasco would be worse for everybody involved.

    Actually if good understandings are created in between the Far Eastern nations from Russia in the north to NZ in the south and all border/maritime disputes resolved, the USA could be expelled from this space where it has no business being. Same with Europe, if European nations incl the UK can come to a peaceful understanding with Russia, the USA might not be needed in Europe too. Russia could become a bridge in between the European space and East Asia-Pacific space as well as Central Asia. The USA could concentrate on helping Israel enlarge via its Yinon plan with India’s help. India, USA and Israel belong more to each other than Europe or East Asia-Pacific region nations.

    • Replies: @Ann Nonny Mouse
  76. Half-Jap says:
    @Larry Romanoff

    Japan declared ownership in Jan. 1895, 3 months before the treaty of Shimonoseki. Japan has confirmed that there were no declared possessors in state prior to the declaration. The Senkaku/Diaoyu islands were not mentioned in the treaty either, because they were already under Japan, so there was nothing to be seized or annexed. There was nothing to return, although there was some power play at the end of the pacific war as you state.

    The current Chinese gov’s logic is essentially that because another dynasty has seen it or been there or listed it on an old record/map, or occupied at some point in time, it’s the current mainland gov’s property. Even if, for example, Taiwan was considered occupied by tribes and barbarians and not under any control or occupation by any dynasty until partial occupation by the last dynasty, the Qin, after quelling the Ming loyalists, just by virtue of it being on a map and being occupied at some point in time, it is asserted that it is legitimately part of the mainland’s authority. It has never been under communist control, and was continuously occupied by what remained of the Republic of China.

    The mainland’s logic is that of power, and power only. And they may win. The US and China are so much alike.

    • Agree: NobodyKnowsImADog
    • Troll: Larry Romanoff
  77. There is broad agreement across the American political spectrum – from President Trump to Bernie Sanders – that US manufacturing jobs lost to China must be returned to the home-soil. That would mean job losses in China and pressure to open its market to American imports. There is a clash of vital interests. History shows when those interests collide the result is war: in this case – the two greatest economies on the planet – it will be world war.
    https://www.ghostsofhistory.wordpress.com/

    • Replies: @Tor597
  78. FB says: • Website
    @JohnPlywood

    Very few people can see what I see, the big picture…

    Because very few people are that hopelessly retarded…

    …oil is running out, climate change is real…

    You should have stopped at simply being retarded…the lobotomy really wasn’t necessary…

    As for your silly quacking about the commodity technology of CONSUMER chips…

    In case you haven’t noticed the vast majority of this mickey mouse crapola is churned out of Asia…besides Taiwan also Korea and even that intellectual powerhouse Indonesia…

    Chips don’t mean diddly squat, they are nothing more than a COMMODITY product that can be churned out anywhere…soon they will be churned out in Africa…

    The newest passenger jets in production still use 286 chips from 30 years ago, because they fly high enough where cosmic radiation will fry small circuits…spacecraft like sats need much bigger circuits still…so do missiles and everything else that really counts for anything…

    Anyone who has used a computer for the last 30 years knows that there has been zero real progress in the last 20 years, after the initial gains in performance from say 1990 to 2000…the computer with Windows XP I used 20 years ago was actually more stable and more capable overall than the piece of crap I am typing this on now…despite having supposedly 100 times more power…

    The Apollo rocket was designed using slide rules, so was the Concorde supersonic passenger jet…those kinds of things take actual engineering, not a computer…

    The US is nowhere in actual high technology fields like hypersonics or nuclear energy, where the Russians have built a massive technology lead…also in jet propulsion, with the world’s only operational scramjet engine, which can fly at speeds of over Mach 5 and will eventually power civil transport as well…[see Zircon missile with scramjet propulsion]

    The US will never again regain the stature of a technology power and will soon be overtaken by the Brazils and Indias of the world…for the simple reason that in order to have technology, you first have to have education…

    Russia produces TWICE as many engineers as the US, with half the population…

    In the Broader STEM education measure, encompassing ‘science, technology, engineering and math…

    China graduates nearly 10 times as many STEM intellectuals as the US, despite having only four times the population…this ratio is also consistent with Russia, which has less than half the US population, but graduates about the same number…

    Intelligent people who actually work in intellectual technical fields know all of this very well…besides the poor quality and inaccessibility of technical education, American young people aren’t interested in math…it’s too hard for them…they prefer to be singers or youtubers…

    It is complete silliness to believe that an intellectual pygmy like the US is going to turn back the tide of its declining imperialism based on intellect, of all things…only the retarded media could come up with such an angle…

    Fortunately there are all kinds of morons with plywood, chipboard and other wood products filling their cranium, who will eat this crap up and then regurgitate it on UNZ…

    • Agree: Jazman
  79. Tor597 says:
    @Anonymous

    Don’t forget the virulent anti-asian sentiment coming from western countries.

    White people here will tell you it is only against the CCP and some will admit it is Chinese people that they want to target.

    But really all Asians have been attacked in western countries and this will have consequences. This is a hot topic in asian countries and this along with how poorly western countries have handled the virus has led to a big loss of face for the west.

  80. Malla says:
    @showmethereal

    The part I disagree with is that you left out India. There is a mix of inferiority complex and delusions of grandeur there toward China.

    Yes India would want to join in. The Indian deep state is spinning China as a new British Raj 2.0 and Chinese companies as new East India Company. Of course this is quite ridiculous but deep states frequently play with people’s emotions.
    Also, actually there are some parallels in between both the situations. India is pissed that economically it just cannot compete with China. That is why it took this opportunity of the clash to ban Chinese companies and products in India.
    The truth is the biggest bane for India in competing with the big powers is the low productivity of Indian manufacturing. We could not compete with Britain a century ago and not now with China. During the days of the Raj, British worker productivity was far higher, indeed it needed 8 Indian workers to do the work of 2 British workers in cloth mills. Thus even if British workers started from a higher wage (Britain already had twice the per capita income compared to India in 1600, when the East India Company was created), Indian industries could not compete.
    Besides that the Marxists in their desire to explain why the Industrialized countries of the West who were supposed to go Communist never went Communist according to Marx’s theory. The early industrial powers like Great Britain, France, Germany, Belgium, Netherlands etc… all had Communist parties as well as Worker’s unions but Communism never became successful there. Even in Asia, Japan the first Asian industrial power never went Communist even though there is a Communist Party in Japan. To explain away this anomaly, the Marxists explained that the colonies were used as dumping ground for production excesses. This idiotic theory influenced Dadabhai Naoroji ‘s (Grand Old Man of India) theory that India was supplying raw material to Britain and Britain in return was supplying India with Industrialized goods and thus impoverishing India. Especially Cotton exported to Britain from India and finished clothing imported back from Britain.

    Now there are many problems with this theory. First, British exports to India was only a tiny percentage of Britain’s exports, Britain traded more with the other nations of Europe like Germany and USA, all outside the Empire than British India or even Australia and New Zealand or British Nigeria. Also Britain’s exports to places like Australia was not that much less than India because more Australians as a percentage of their population had the money to buy British cloth than India even thought India had a much bigger population than Australia.

    Secondly Britain did not use much Indian cotton, Indian cotton then and even now is not of good quality for high quality clothing. The best quality and most used cotton in British Mills was from the USA and after that from British Egypt and only that we have British Indian and Brazilian cotton. Indian cotton made a tiny part of British Mills import. Indeed the British Raj Govt was working with Indian farmers trying various experiments to improve cotton quality and yield in India.

    Thirdly most of Indian cotton was used by British Indian Mills themselves who made much lower quality cloth. Most of these Mills were run by Indian baniya Capitalists. The other country which was importing a lot of low quality Indian cotton was Japan. Japanese Mills competed with British Indian Mills for the China market and British Indian cloth pushed the more expensive British cloth out of the Chinese market.
    Indeed once Japan was the China of its time, Japanese goods was flooding the world market. This is because Japanese workers though had lower wages than Western workers had quite high productivity. Indian Mills with lower productive workers could not compete against Japanese Mills. Indeed one Indian administrative officer in South India told a visiting British administrative officer that “If Japanese Goods are not banned from India, not only will it destroy Indian industry, it will throw out British goods out of the Indian market”. Even economist David Landes came to this conclusion in his book that India had access to latest technology (thanks to Empire, latest British technology reached India before some parts of Europe) and capital, the spoiler was low productivity of labour.

    …CONTINUED….

    • Replies: @Malla
  81. Malla says:
    @Malla

    …CONTINUED FROM ABOVE….

    And thus Norowji’s theories are wrong. But this theory was spread like wildfire among the masses and nationalist forces funded by greedy Indian baniya capitalists incited masses on a Swadeshi movements, burning British cloth and asking the British Raj Govt of India for protectionism. The fact that Britain did not depend on Indian cotton, British exports to British India made a tiny part of British exports, low productivity of Indian labour made Indian goods expensive was all lost on them. Gandhi made home made charkha cloth, told people to wear home made Khakhi cloth.
    Just because India had a huge population, the Indian nationalists chest thumped that by denying British goods access to India, Britain would be impoverished and brought to its knees. What they ignored was that the Indian market was small even if India had a huge population because most Indians were poor and that only a tiny percentage of British exports was to India. Thus Britain did not become poor and was relatively unaffected.

    The British Raj did not support protectionism much but supported a laissez faire economic model. But after WW1, the British Raj became more protectionist trying to protect Indian industries. That is because the Great depression started in America, made the British Empire elites realize that the Wall Street bankers are psychos and soon a Imperial Preference System was designed in a meeting in Ottawa, Canada by all members of the Empire which would slowly isolate the British Empire from the Wall Street crazies and increase trade in between the Empire. Thus 1/4th of the World (British Empire) was economically isolating itself from America. This led to Wall Street (and their minion President FDR) realise that the British Empire was the biggest threat to American Export Capitalism, indeed much more than even the Soviet Union!!! That is why the USA played a big part in destroying the the British Empire and all other European empires. But only after the Germans were defeated who were the bigger threat. Germany out rightly revolted against Wall Street with the coming of Hitler as the great depression had a horrifying effect on German economy and society and Germany along with Japan had to be put down first and fast.

    After Independence in 1947, the Indian Government chose protectionism for two reasons, due to lower worker productivity Indian industry found it hard to compete with Western and Japanese Companies and other because the Indian Capitalist baniya Industrialists wanted the Indian market all for themselves.
    And many years later, now, the same thing repeats itself. China imports more raw material from India but exports more finished goods. Due to lower Indian productivity not being able to compete with Chinese labour, toys to pots and pans are all imported into India from China. Thus the situation w.r.t. Great Britain and British India repeats itself again now with People’s Republic of China and Republic of India. In other words China “is the new Britain, taking our raw material and supplying us with finished goods and thus impoverishing us” according to Indian nationalists. China is the new British Raj in the minds of nationalist Indian masses, fueled by the Indian deep state.

    Just like before with Britain, because India has a huge population, the Indian nationalists chest thump that by denying Chinese goods access to India, China (like was thought about Britain) would be impoverished and brought to its knees. What they ignore (as they ignored w.r.t Britain a century back) is that the Indian market is small even if India has a huge population because most Indians are still poor and that only a tiny percentage of Chinese exports is to India. Thus China will not become poor (just as Britain did not become poor either) and will be relatively unaffected. Many Indian nationalists chest thump “that 60% of China’s exports are to India and we can bring China down by denying them Indian market” The reality is more like 2-3% of PR Chinese exports is sent to India. China trades much more with the USA and EU. So just a century back like how British goods were burned in India, Chinese goods are burned and banned. History repeats itself.
    The Indian Govt which could do nothing about the increasing neagtive balance of trade in between India and China, finally took this opportunity (Corona Virus weakening China’s image, US-China clash and the clash in the Himalayas) to do what it always wanted to do, ban Chinese companies and products via export substitution, something the rich greedy Indian baniya companies support as well. India is actually going back to pre-1990, pre-liberalization system of import substitution which kept India backward.

    • Agree: Tor597
    • Thanks: Miro23
    • Replies: @Tor597
    , @Anonymous
  82. Miro23 says:

    The ZioGlob/CIA deep state is making a big effort to demonize China (Wuhan Covid19, Huawei, Hong Kong colour revolution, Houston embassy spying, Uigur camps, S.China sea etc.)

    The reasons could be that China is the main trade partner of Iran – buying their oil, building infrastructure and not respecting the US trade embargo. Also refusing a US request to remove their military jamming systems in the S. China sea, and Huawei not allowing a NSA backdoor into their products. Then there’s the long term refusal to allow US financial services into China.

    China is insisting on its sovereignty – unlike for example Britain and Australia who follow ZioGlob instructions to the letter.

    So, the US ZioGlob isn’t doing all this for nothing. They’re preparing the ground for some “event” – although they should be aware that China is unlikely to back down. The Chinese are nationalists with still fresh memories of foreign occupation and exploitation.

  83. @Majority of One

    So twice now U$ imperial missions have been severiously compromised by electronic superiority capabilities.

    Gee, I guess it easn’t so smart to boost profit margins by off-shoring much of America’s microchip production. And even though Huawei and its subsidiaries are on the “entity list,” the capitalists at Cadence and Synopsys are continuing to sell the rope that will be used to hang us in the form of chip design software sold to regional and local Chinese entities.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  84. Biff says:
    @JohnPlywood

    In the battle between hegemonic systems it seems America has won…

    America is a bank – a financial institution. It no longer produces – it buys. If someone is selling victory somewhere America is sure to be a buyer. Hurry though, the money is running out!

  85. Another “analyst-journalist” infested with dirty yellow rat fever, touting the touch of Peking duck’s magic and the “imminent” decline of the White Christian West … a coming war will take care it!

    • Troll: d dan
  86. @antibeast

    Mongols, East Asian as in yellow rats of China? Are you nuts? They fucked the shit out of China… hope you’re not confused. They have pills made out of tiger penises that will help you know the difference between a slimy chinaman and the descendants of the Great Khan!

    • Troll: Herald
  87. gotmituns says:

    we shudd just reestablisch the Yangtze River patrel with gunboats and Marines and make the chinks due what we tell them.

    • Replies: @vot tak
  88. @Tor597

    I refuse to go full “March of the Titans”; Kemp is fun to read for the uninitiated but full of serious errors.
    Did I mention Temujin´s grandmother was raped by a blond god? There weren´t even “Mongols” before he gathered the tribes and gave them the Law (Jassa) and the Uyghur script.
    The population history of the steppes has been a wide open field for quite a few millennia.
    Timur Leng was a redhead (the Soviets opened his sarcophagus in the Gur Imir in Samarkand).
    Of Attila we do not even know the name but the title is Ostrogothic and Ildiko (the dame upon whom he died) is an East Germanic name though nowadays popular in Hungary.

    The Chinese, BTW, react anaphylactic to these things like a virgin grabbled upskirt, knowing who REALLY is the superior race 😀

    • Replies: @Tor597
  89. vot tak says:
    @gotmituns

    Sounds like someone’s choice of online Hebrew to English dictionary is of poor quality. 😀

    • LOL: FB
  90. vot tak says:

    US’ ‘mafia-style tactic’ on TikTok strips last layer of decency

    http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1196697.shtml

    “Trump on Monday doubled down on his earlier comments of forcing TikTok to be sold to a US company, suggesting that the potential transaction must be completed by September 15 or he could ban altogether the popular video-sharing app used by around 100 million users in the US.

    The US President also repeated his earlier demand that the US government should get a cut of the deal, saying that “the United States could and should get a very large percentage of that price because we’re making it possible.”

    Trump’s remarks immediately sent shock waves across Chinese social media platforms on Tuesday, where many declared the end of the US as a free market and a country ruled by the law, calling the move “naked robbery” from a Chinese company.

    “This is a Chicago mafia-style way of doing things, pure and simple: Pointing a gun at your head and ordering you to make a deal,” Shen Yi, a professor at the School of International Relations and Public Affairs at Fudan University, told the Global Times on Thursday, “there is no point in discussing the legality of the move because there is none. It’s utterly immoral.”

    In Beijing, a spokesperson for the Chinese Foreign Ministry called the US crackdown on TikTok “pure political manipulation” based on “baseless” accusations. “In fact, there has been no shortage of examples of the US using its state machine to crack down on other countries’ businesses. The US must stop opening the ‘Pandora’s Box,’ or it will reap what it has sown,” Wang Wenbin, the spokesperson, told a press conference.

    “This is beyond absurdity. It has really reached below the bottom,” Fang Xingdong, founder of Beijing-based technology think tank ChinaLabs, told the Global Times on Tuesday, adding that the US “has no moral high ground” left in its claims of a free market and a country upholding the rule of law. “It has shown its willingness to stop at nothing for its own interests.”

    “It is important for the Chinese government to exert some effort to ensure that the US would pay the price for such behavior,” Fang said, adding that given the intensifying crackdown on Chinese tech companies, China should treat and guard the high-tech sector as an area of “core interest.”

    Some experts have also suggested that China could continue opening up the domestic financial market for foreign businesses from other areas, but bar US companies from entering until the US government halts its crackdown on Chinese companies.”

    An obvious ploy to destroy a competitor of microsoft. Does microsoft have any properties in China? If so, maybe the Chinese government could confiscate these and hand them over to ByteDance? ;-D

    • Agree: Malla
  91. @Malla

    “He claims Chinese have racist DNA.

    Isn’t that rather a racist statement?

    Do we know if he was born with his racism or did he come by it honestly?

    • Replies: @Malla
  92. antibeast says:
    @Anon

    Yeah, and I suppose those two countries could destroy the USA effortlessly, with no ecological problems, no nuclear fallout, no nuclear winter. They could snap their fingers and effortlessly cause the USA to vanish, while they went on with their business, unharmed. It’s amazing that the defenseless USA has lasted this long, existing only on the sufferance of such titans.

    I was merely stating the geopolitical reality that the US Deep State refuses to accept by coming up with their US National Security Strategy which treats both Russia/China as existential threats to the USA Empire. This kind of imperial hubris is delusional because both Russia/China serve as a deterrent to the USA Empire from overrunning the world. That doesn’t imply that either Russia or China will initiate a catastrophic nuclear war against the USA because that would mean the destruction of humanity on this planet. Far from it, both Russia/China want to maintain a cordial and respectful relationship with the USA as expressed by both Putin and Xi. The danger is the mindset of the US Deep State who wants US military dominance of the world at all costs, at the risk of triggering a nuclear conflagration. Even starting a conventional war between nuclear-armed States is dangerous because it could lead to nuclear war. What the US Deep State is doing today — issuing military threats and/or organizing hostile acts — against both Russia/China could lead to military conflict because such provocative acts preclude political options or a diplomatic solution. In other words, they’re shutting the door to world peace by preparing the world for a nuclear conflagration.

    The main problem is that the US Deep State believes that either Russia or China would willingly surrender their National Sovereignty under threats of war from the US Empire. Quite the opposite has happened as both Russia/China has doubled down on their strategic nuclear weapons as well as their hypersonic missile systems. This is far more dangerous than the US/Soviet rivalry when the US Deep State was content to wage a political/economic “Cold War” against the Eastern bloc. But this is no longer the case as the US Deep State wants to threaten both Russia/China, ignoring their military capabilities as nuclear-armed States that could destroy the USA.

    This is not child’s play. Russia is not Iraq. China is not Afghanistan. But the US Deep State thinks they can treat Russia like Iraq and China like Afghanistan. Both Russia and China may not have as many military bases or aircraft carriers as the US Empire but both of them are highly-capable, technologically-advanced States armed to the teeth with high-tech AND nuclear weapons.

  93. Tor597 says:
    @peter mcloughlin

    Why would other people want Made in America? America has neither the ability to compete on price against China, nor the skill to compete against the Japanese or Germans.

    Made in America will be a flop. Just look at American cars and how bad Boeing planes are.

    • Agree: nokangaroos
    • Replies: @nokangaroos
  94. WOW! Washington knew in his farewell address:

    . Observe good faith and justice towards all nations; cultivate peace and harmony with all. Religion and morality enjoin this conduct; and can it be, that good policy does not equally enjoin it? It will be worthy of a free, enlightened, and at no distant period, a great nation, to give to mankind the magnanimous and too novel example of a people always guided by an exalted justice and benevolence. Who can doubt that, in the course of time and things, the fruits of such a plan would richly repay any temporary advantages which might be lost by a steady adherence to it ? Can it be that Providence has not connected the permanent felicity of a nation with its virtue ? The experiment, at least, is recommended by every sentiment which ennobles human nature. Alas! is it rendered impossible by its vices?
    In the execution of such a plan, nothing is more essential than that permanent, inveterate antipathies against particular nations, and passionate attachments for others, should be excluded; and that, in place of them, just and amicable feelings towards all should be cultivated. The nation which indulges towards another a habitual hatred or a habitual fondness is in some degree a slave. It is a slave to its animosity or to its affection, either of which is sufficient to lead it astray from its duty and its interest. Antipathy in one nation against another disposes each more readily to offer insult and injury, to lay hold of slight causes of umbrage, and to be haughty and intractable, when accidental or trifling occasions of dispute occur. Hence, frequent collisions, obstinate, envenomed, and bloody contests. The nation, prompted by ill-will and resentment, sometimes impels to war the government, contrary to the best calculations of policy. The government sometimes participates in the national propensity, and adopts through passion what reason would reject; at other times it makes the animosity of the nation subservient to projects of hostility instigated by pride, ambition, and other sinister and pernicious motives. The peace often, sometimes perhaps the liberty, of nations, has been the victim.
    It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world; so far, I mean, as we are now at liberty to do it; for let me not be understood as capable of patronizing infidelity to existing engagements. I hold the maxim no less applicable to public than to private affairs, that honesty is always the best policy. I repeat it, therefore, let those engagements be observed in their genuine sense. But, in my opinion, it is unnecessary and would be unwise to extend them.

  95. Tor597 says:
    @Malla

    I think its smart for countries to ban social media platforms like Tictok so they can have their own media not controlled by foreigners. This includes YouTube, Google, Facebook, and Twitter which I don’t see India ever banning though.

    But I agree with the rest of what you said. India especially needs to open up agriculture to free trade since so it makes up a huge percentage of an average Indians cost relative to the rest of the world.

    • Replies: @Malla
  96. Tor597 says:
    @nokangaroos

    lol.

    You should see white people when you tell them that Jesus was not white but instead a brown man.

    • Replies: @gotmituns
  97. antibeast says:
    @Anon

    Oh, I get it. You’re a Maoist.

    No, I am not. I admire them though for winning against all odds.

    Even if the PRC manages to invade Taiwan successfully, even if they manage to seize the infrastructure unharmed, they won’t be able to make it run properly as soon as they turn the key. The workings of a modern chip factory are very, very complicated. Furthermore, Taiwan’s chip factories are intimately tied to foreign experts, and many/most of Taiwan’s experts will not be eager to be assimilated into the Maoist utopia. At best the PRC would deny Taiwanese chips to the civilized world for years, then perhaps it could save face by getting the factories to run at great expense and with low efficiency.

    More delusions. Do you know how many of those “foreigners” including U.S. citizens who work in TSMC are ethnic Chinese? And do you know how many of those U.S. citizens working for US semiconductor giants like Intel, Cadence, Synopsis, AMD, etc. are ethnic Chinese? I will give you a hint: check out the present CEOs of Cadence, Synopsis and AMD. So how hard is it to run TSMC if almost all the technical talent are ethnic Chinese? Sure the management staff may be White Americans but they are just bean-counters while most of the techies are ethnic Chinese.

    However — Taiwan’s chip factories are not guaranteed to survive an invasion. If Taiwan’s government has the choice of surrendering the factories intact or burning them down as a scorched-earth policy, they might well go for scorched-earth.

    China doesn’t need to invade Taiwan. All China needs to do is issue an decree annexing Taiwan as a province of China, thereby placing its semiconductor industry under the laws of the PRC. TSMC is then subject to PRC (China) not ROC (Taiwan) laws. Same as HK. China issued a decree enacting the National Security Law in HK. No more one country, two systems. From now on, it’s one country, one system.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  98. gotmituns says:
    @Tor597

    Jesus was a Nordic.

    • Replies: @Tor597
    , @Bork
  99. @Tor597

    On second thought, this sounds awfully like just before WWII …

  100. Anonymous[339] • Disclaimer says:
    @Malla

    My God, we’ve been lied to on such a large scale. The presumption was that somebody responsible would conduct an analysis like Malla’s — looking at the significance of phenomena rather than their simple existence. Doesn’t happen.
    It still doesn’t happen. The denial of Hydroxychloroquine/zinc/azithromycin therapy in first week COVID-19 treatment is of similar scale to the denial of the Indian situation in the time interval covered by Malla’s analysis.

    This is insupportable. For once, Fred Reed is correct. (https://www.unz.com/freed/its-gonna-blow-be-a-miracle-if-it-dont/) If it’s any consolation, when the US goes, so does the Mexican central government.

    For those wanting more information about historical productivity of Indian vs. English industrial workers, see: Gregory Clark, A Farewell to Alms: A Brief Economic History of the World, Princeton University Press; 2007. The issues raised by Malla and Clark invalidate all current predictions of India’s future. This is most unwelcome, as the current predictions will be acted upon for the next several years, leading to the fiascos we all know and . . ., well, that we all know so well. Speaking for myself, I’ve had enough fiascos, and enough bad advice and enough incompetent leadership to last me for a few centuries. I don’t support them anymore.

    • Thanks: Malla
    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Malla
  101. antibeast says:
    @Chinaman

    There is no group of people more dangerous than white psychopaths driven by ideological fervour. Nazis being the prime example. The genocide of the native Indians amounted to tens of millions. Hundreds of millions doesn’t even keep up with inflation since WW2. It is not just racism, Genocidal tendencies are ingrained in white people’s DNA.

    But China is a nuclear-armed State.

    The US remain the only country to have used nukes even though we know it was unnecessary to defeat the Jap. They were using Jap as guniea pigs this new weapon.

    Yes, that’s why Japan will never fight a war against nuclear-armed States like China.

    The deep state will probably feel it make sense for a nuclear reset given 50% of the population is non white in the next 2 decade.

    I don’t think the rapidly declining USA Empire will last that long which makes the US Deep State desperate enough to try a last ditch “Hail Mary” attempt to forestall the coming collapse of the USA Empire. The way the US Deep State is provoking Russia/China could trigger an all-out nuclear conflagration between the three nuclear-armed States because they think a “limited war” involving conventional weapons could force Russia/China to surrender their National Sovereignty.

    The USA survived WWI and WWII largely unscathed because missiles were not invented yet at the time. But that’s no longer true today.

    • Replies: @Miro23
  102. Half-Jap says:
    @Larry Romanoff

    Ah, labeled as troll. Nice.
    It often means I won the argument, if you haven’t been savvy about how it works this past decade 😉
    Sometimes in the past I thought Japan should have planned to conquer all of China, as it would have been effective and perhaps beneficial, being capitalist and obviating the wait until Deng Xiao Ping got it going. But you, historical ignoramuses, cannot fathom that Japan did not want China at all, but only secure Manchuria as a nation state, which itself was problematic under prevailing international law/norms. We just got stuck, due to various retarded reasons, and our side especially being detrimental. Complex history in turd-size, for all to have a bite.
    Anyways, there is much in history that ideologues would ignore or loathe, and you shouldn’t act like one of them, to remain credible.

    • Replies: @d dan
    , @Larry Romanoff
  103. Malla says:
    @Tor597

    I would be more fearful of YouTube, Google, Facebook, and Twitter than TikTok.

    India especially needs to open up agriculture to free trade since so it makes up a huge percentage of an average Indians cost relative to the rest of the world.

    Very true. Besides Indian agriculture is in the dumps. Too many farmers owning very small patches of land (due to population growth and division of farms in between sons) making more productive farming difficult. And we have a lot of farmers committing suicide every years. Something is not right.

    What I find weird is even though we have a lot of land which gives us multiple yields per year, instead of clearing up the mess in Indian agriculture, the Indian Govt supported Indian big agro companies are buying agriculture land in Africa!!!!
    I can understand an arid country like Saudi Arabia doing something like this, but Indian companies buying African land is plain weird. If we clear up the mess in our own farming system, we do not have to go abroad and poach agro land from someone else.
    https://www.goimonitor.com/story/land-grab-africa-brought-you-india

  104. Anonymous[339] • Disclaimer says:
    @antibeast

    China doesn’t need to invade Taiwan. All China needs to do is issue an decree annexing Taiwan as a province of China, thereby placing its semiconductor industry under the laws of the PRC. TSMC is then subject to PRC (China) not ROC (Taiwan) laws.

    Great! My fortune is made!

    Proclamation!!!!
    As of now, Taiwan is under _my_ laws, therefore its semiconductor industry is under my laws as well. Law 1 (the basic law of the land): I get 0.1% of all profits from Taiwan semiconductor industry.
    Law 2: Decrees from the PRC anexing Taiwan will not be recognized. I annexed it first, guys. You snooze, you lose.
    Law 3: Taiwan remains otherwise self governing.

    I’ll await contact from the Taiwanese government. I’m offering it a much better deal than the PRC would, and (as Anon would have it) all I had to do was to make the proclamation!! Genius!

    • Replies: @Herald
    , @antibeast
  105. Miro23 says:
    @antibeast

    I don’t think the rapidly declining USA Empire will last that long which makes the US Deep State desperate enough to try a last ditch “Hail Mary” attempt to forestall the coming collapse of the USA Empire. The way the US Deep State is provoking Russia/China could trigger an all-out nuclear conflagration between the three nuclear-armed States because they think a “limited war” involving conventional weapons could force Russia/China to surrender their National Sovereignty.

    My thoughts on this, is why doesn’t the US ZioGlob/CIA deep state mind its own business? China and Russia aren’t threatening the US – all the provocations come from the US side.

    However, if they really must have a war, wouldn’t it be easier (and benefit everybody) if all the Neo-cons, think tank people, academics and media owners were rounded up one day and taken out of circulation. There aren’t that many of them -and they’ve been exerting non-democratic power in the US for decades already.

    • Replies: @Bork
  106. Malla says:
    @Anonymous

    Yes check out the parallels with what is happening now and in the past
    https://www.quora.com/Can-we-Indians-destroy-Chinese-products-in-masses-as-we-burnt-British-made-products-during-Swadeshi-Movement-in-British-Raj
    Can we (Indians) destroy Chinese products in masses as we burnt British-made products during ‘Swadeshi Movement’ in British Raj?

    https://www.thequint.com/voices/opinion/indian-economy-atmanirbhar-swadeshi-china-trade-globalisation-self-reliance-corona-impact
    Swadeshi – that clarion call for self-reliance – first heard in 1905, asking Indians to boycott British products and embrace the home-grown, is making a comeback it seems, in the wake of the COVID-19 pandemic. Only this time, the object of protest is China.

    https://www.quora.com/Will-Swadeshi-2-0-help-India-outperform-China
    The two pictures are a century apart but capture the same emotion of nationalistic revolt. One is of the 1905 Swadeshi movement, against British-made goods whereas the other is of the Atmanirbhar Bharat beginning its “anti-Made In China” movement.

    https://scroll.in/article/965167/sino-satyagraha-can-india-boycott-china-as-a-response-to-the-ladakh-attack
    Last week saw the biggest India-China clash since 1962 in the icy reaches of Ladakh. In a pre-planned attack, the Chinese Army brutally assaulted Indian soldiers leading to 20 deaths, 76 injured and 10 captured. According to the Modi government, the attack unfolded as “the Chinese side sought to erect a structure in Galwan valley on our side of the LAC”.

    As a response to this military aggression, many Indians, including members of the ruling Bharatiya Janata Party have called for a reprise of the tactics of Swadeshi against China, first used during the Indian freedom movement against the British Raj.

  107. Anonymous[339] • Disclaimer says:
    @The Alarmist

    Gee, I guess it iasn’t so smart to boost profit margins by off-shoring much of America’s microchip production. And even though Huawei and its subsidiaries are on the “entity list,” the capitalists at Cadence and Synopsys are continuing to sell the rope that will be used to hang us in the form of chip design software sold to regional and local Chinese entities.

    The US is desperately short of money, and has been for decades. The basic political system democracy, one man one vote, that has been subverted by importing foreigners to live on vote farm. The foreigners and their offspring are largely incapable of working productively in a industrial economy (about half the Blacks, about 1 third of the Hispanics), and must be supported entirely from political funds.

    That is very expensive

    .

    The West could not afford to buy its own electronics. This is more the case in that the industries involved and those working in them were generally in opposition to the “import foreign voters who will go on welfare” approach to democratic politics. Buying electronics domestically would have destabilized the political approach.

    So forget the “Capitalists”. It’s the politicians who call the tune, and they are calling “danse macabre” (https://www.britannica.com/art/dance-of-death-art-motif). Not the best dance, but a dance. It’s almost over.

  108. d dan says:
    @Half-Jap

    “But you, historical ignoramuses, cannot fathom that Japan did not want China at all, but only secure Manchuria as a nation state”

    Sounds like you are the real historical ignoramuses. I guess it was Chiang Kai Shek’s fault that Japan finally invaded Shanghai and Nanjing, etc. They really did NOT want the rest of China, Chinese forced them to do that?

    Ah, labeled as troll. Nice.
    It often means I won the argument, if you haven’t been savvy about how it works this past decade 😉

    This statement in itself shows that you are neither savvy nor have “won” the argument.

    Anyways, there is much in history that ideologues would ignore or loathe, and you shouldn’t act like one of them, to remain credible.

    Larry Romanoff’s credibility remains intact. You should be more concerned about yours.

    • Replies: @Half-Jap
  109. @JohnPlywood

    I think you have started to delaminate.

  110. Tor597 says:
    @gotmituns

    Future generations are going to read that Jimmy Hendrix was white and that Michael Jordan’s father was a blond Aryan.

  111. Herald says:
    @Anonymous

    Your proclamation is not going to cut the mustard, but nice try.

  112. China’s military was built by the ZUSS as was everything else in China , starting in 1973 when David Rockefeller sent his hired gun aka Kissinger to open up China’s slave labor to the kabal that runs America, and then the ZUSS corporations took America jobs to China and built their military up along with their economy.

    The so called disputes between China and the ZUSS are a diversion aka a psyop, as the kabal that controls the ZUSS aka the zionists and the kabal that controls China are on the same agenda aka turning the world into a communist, satanic, one world government.

    They are using the covid-19 psyop to destroy America, and it is all part of the plan by the kabal, there will not be a war with China, China is part of the covid-19 psyop and the kabal, birds of a feather , flock together.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  113. @Half-Jap

    Never engage with a pig, because the pig isn’t interested in the outcome of the conflict. It derives all its pleasure from luring you into the pigsty where it can coat you with muck and excrement.

    • Replies: @Half-Jap
  114. Anon[406] • Disclaimer says:
    @JohnPlywood

    China is not just a manufacturer, she is also a huge customer base for US products that she helps make. A richer China means more profits for US companies, a poorer/bankrupt China means less profit. US companies a.k.a. Wall Street are addicted to that Chinese revenue stream. Good luck convincing them to give that up. Can you imagine US fast food companies being kicked out of China? Even in the present hostile climate, FB, Google, Apple, Tesla, NBA et al. are doggedly trying to expand into China.

    As Stalin once said, capitalists will sell you the rope you use to hang them with. America will live and die by the need to maximize profits, as preached to us by the God Milton Friedman.

  115. @d dan

    Listen to yourself. You sound like a raving, dangerous lunatic. Even is you were right–especially if you are right–then everything you say coupled with what you claim is China’s awesome strength gives us no reassurance that China has anything but ill feeling towards us and is out to destroy us.

    You and or others go on about China’s humiliation in the 1850’s for God’s sake. Get over it. The fact that you’re still b!tching and moaning about that is a red flag. You’re just like the Jews. Never forget, never forgive.

    Thanks for the eye opener. You can’t be trusted. You’re malevolent.

    And to all you China apologists, the USA has long championed freedom of the seas. You are colonizing the open ocean. I believe this is your tiger by the tail moment.

  116. Half-Jap says:
    @Larry Romanoff

    Amazing non-argument.
    I wonder why you are so emotional.
    But it’s fine, as you are just another living proof. Of what, well, I will just see what you say, but thus far stuck with the CCP’s purported truths.
    Plenty of Americans I met that are simply full of this and that, far more angry or unreasonable than any Chinese mainlander. Even in this, they are perhaps better than you.

    • Replies: @Malla
  117. Anonymous[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @FB

    Your anti American screed is identical to the rationale of every HR department in America hiring only Indian and Asian foreign HI B visa holders in all stem and tech jobs to further affirmative action and the downward slide of White Americans to unemployable untouchables.

    • Agree: Cking
  118. Half-Jap says:
    @d dan

    I am fine. All you say are unsupported in any event.
    It delights me that Shanghai is brought up, as many do not know much about anything about the China war. In any event, it matters not what either of us think. In the end, it is not about truth, but diplomacy and relative power. The current mainland government has their own agenda and will dispose with whatever material is at hand to suit them. Typical. And, if you and Larry agree with their narrative, more power to you tools. 🙂

    • Replies: @d dan
    , @AnonCN
  119. Half-Jap says:
    @ThreeCranes

    The US and all other Powers championed such freedom. It only ends when they don’t like a particular country, like Japan in the past, Iran recently, and China today.
    They have all the rationale to go all Sampson on your asses, as us Japs did, and contributed to bring down the old colonialism, which embargoed us (for shit we did that was admittedly retarded lol)

  120. Alfred says:
    @Anonymous

    China is large but largely isolated and landlocked, and only has a couple dubious allies in North Korea and Pakistan

    Do you seriously think that Russia and Iran will let the USA do what it wants with China?

    Dream on! 🙂

    • Replies: @Anon
  121. Agent76 says:

    Jul 22, 2020 China helps world ditch US financial hegemony

    Red Lines host Anya Parampil speaks with Beijing-based journalist Ian Goodrum about a draft military and trade agreement that China and Iran are reportedly negotiating. They also discuss the latest China news, including the US decision to end Hong Kong’s special trading status.

    Jul 22, 2020 Chinese Consulate CAUGHT Frantically Burning Documents Amid Spying
    Charges, US-China Cold War Is Now

    Hours after the US ordered the closure of the Chinese consulate in Houston people noticed smoke emerging from the building.

  122. Alfred says:
    @JohnPlywood

    The reality is that the USA has lost its technological edge to China. Launching an economic war is a high-risk endeavor. It will never help the the USA regain its preeminence.

    It seems to me that the USA is playing a similar role to Admiral Yamamoto. He knew that even sinking those aircraft carriers (which had escaped because the Japanese Naval code was broken) won’t change the outcome of the war.

  123. d dan says:
    @ThreeCranes

    ” gives us no reassurance that China has anything but ill feeling towards us and is out to destroy us.”

    Firstly, please tell where is the ill feeling originated? From US or from China? Every single things China did, does or will do are *reactive* (reacting to US aggression) and self-defensive. Please cite one single example when China initiates the hostility.

    Secondly, why would China want to destroy US? Give a logical reason. I bet you can’t.

    “You and or others go on about China’s humiliation in the 1850’s for God’s sake.”

    Actually, I hear this more from Whites and Indians than from Chinese. I know you feel ashamed of your ancestor’s deeds, but don’t worry, Chinese are very forgiving.

    “the USA has long championed freedom of the seas.”

    LOL, can’t get more hypocritical than this. Please rectify UNCLOS before you lecture anyone.

    “You are colonizing the open ocean.”

    You are just a typical brainwashed American. Yes, USA, USA…

    Look how US colonizes the open ocean:

    Johnston Atoll, in the middle of nowhere, has been successively enlarged through coral dredging in 1942, 1958, 1962, 1964:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnston_Atoll#/media/File:Growth_of_Johnston_Island.svg

    Claimed EEZ by US: 157,389 sq mi (407,635 km2)

    And guess what the reclaimed lands were used: weapon test site, chemical weapon test site, biological weapon test site, nuclear weapon test site – you name it, they have it.

    Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnston_Atoll

    And you want more examples? You want examples from Japan, from France, from UK,… ?

    • Agree: Half-Jap
    • Thanks: Mary Marianne
  124. Excellent article once again, Pepe!

  125. The heart of the matter in South China Sea is that it’s South China Sea, not South America Sea.

  126. @Malla

    Do you as an Indian know why India suddenly decided to stop competing with China?

    It is now doing everything it can to bring down China instead of building India it self up.

    It is weird. What cause this drastic change?

    From what I have read of Chinese online postings, the bits I understand is that the Chinese people didn’t even know India existed as a security threat until the recent deadly border troubles.

    For a guy like me reading all these. It is like India is acting up to get China’s attention. But why? India is willing to let it’s soldiers die just to distract China’s focus away from their east coast? For whom? USA? But why? To become a vassal?

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Malla
  127. slorter says:

    The US itself, in its 1951 San Francisco peace treaty with Japan – signed and ratified by Canberra and 47 others – who in effect gifted most of the South China Sea islands – namely, the Spratly and the Paracel island groups – to China? The US then organized a separate document with the Republic of China in Taiwan – the 1952 Taipei peace treaty – making it even clearer that these islands should be taken from Japan and in effect given to China.

    GREGORY CLARK http://johnmenadue.com/gregory-clark-china-a-maritime-expansionist/

    • Agree: showmethereal
  128. @JohnPlywood

    I’m fairly neutral on this debate being neither Chinese or Anglo. However your arguments are entirely spurious, largely based on the idea that China will be crippled by a chip ban, or diabetes or such nonsense. Or that it can be easily removed from the world economy. It’s an entire misunderstanding of economics (US workers won’t grow richer if China is economically destroyed – the entire world economy collapses).

    The only way to defeat China is by nuclear weapons. And that too will destroy the world economy and of course cause massive retaliation. It will also destroy the atmosphere and possibly the Earth. Not going to happen.

    The Chinese century is coming. We Europeans should abandon the US and ally with them.

    • Replies: @Tor597
    , @Brás Cubas
  129. This reminded me of a Chinese video I watched. In it a Chinese guy was talking about how USA wanted to kick China out of the SWIFT system but then the major blow back to the dollar n US economy would be game ending. That was and is the only reason it was never done.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  130. Canción de Heisenberg, or
    the perils of the gringo boss playing in the wrong back yard (SCS)…

    Provoking China not unlike his going up against the cartel.

  131. Ron Unz says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    This reminded me of a Chinese video I watched. In it a Chinese guy was talking about how USA wanted to kick China out of the SWIFT system but then the major blow back to the dollar n US economy would be game ending. That was and is the only reason it was never done.

    I think that one of the main problems is that for more than 100 years, America has been by far the world’s largest economic and industrial power. So (stupid and ignorant) American leaders naturally think in those terms, and use that as a background assumption in their current geopolitical calculations.

    However, over the last decade China surpassed America in economic and industrial size, and given its much more rapid continuing growth, is continuing to spurt ahead. Moreover, there are plausible reasons to believe that a good fraction of America’s current “economy” is largely fictional, meaning that China is even larger than those raw official numbers indicate.

    Much of the true history of the 20th century can be understood as America continually picking fights with with someone much smaller. Unfortunately, America’s leaders seem eager to rely upon those past mostly-successful results to now pick a fight with someone considerably larger, which seems unlikely to end well…

    • Agree: Mary Marianne, Miro23
    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  132. @FB

    You are misleading us here. The US has a very strong university system. And while the US isn’t producing technocrats and engineers it is producing great gender studies graduates. I read a feminist tract the other day about how phallic the symbology of missiles and ICBMS are. This kind of insight is missing in Asian and non western countries. When the US builds vagina shaped missiles then all bets are off and it’s 100 more years of US hegemony.

    • Agree: Cking
    • LOL: FB
  133. @ThreeCranes

    Why would the Chinese forget or forgive you when you haven’t changed/improved in the slightest?

    You were the opium maffia cartel in the 1800s; you’re still the opium maffia cartel today (see: Afghanistan). You tried to carve China up in the 1800s; you’re still trying to carve China up today (see: HK, Xinjiang & Tibet). You went into the Chinese market, but refused to respect any of the local Qing laws in the 1800s; you’re still trying to force yourself into Chinese market while disregarding the local Chinese laws today (see: why Google, Twitter & Facebook are banned in China). You tried to absolve your debt to China by going to war in the 1800s; you’re still trying to use that tactic today.

    • Replies: @Cking
  134. Smith says:
    @Larry Romanoff

    That’s historically inaccurate.

    Vietnam has marked and charted these islands since the Nguyen’s dynasty, they also belong to Vietnam’s EEZ via international UN laws. China was NOT the only sea-faring nation when you compare it to the nations of fishermen of South East Asia.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spratly_Islands_dispute#Vietnam

    Anyway, it’s clear that nobody will respect these historical claims because it’s military and economic power that will be doing the talking here, not history. But what’s best for the SOUTH EAST ASIAN sea is that we back neither USA or China. Both sides have clearly shown themselves to be opportunistic, we will not die for either sides nor economic interests.

    SEA got a bright future ahead, and can certainly wait it out on either sides (China or USA’s demise).

    • Replies: @alchemist
  135. Sean says:
    @Chinaman

    I think the Fentanyl made in Wuhan (where COVID-19 came from) is more equivalent to British opium being foisted on China, although China currently has myriad things the US wants to buy, so the analogy to when the British needed to get the Chinese into a mutual goods trading relationship rather than paying in silver for Chinese tea is a poor one

    Emperor Qianlong: Letter To George III, 1793.

    Swaying the wide world, I have but one aim in view, namely, to maintain a perfect governance and to fulfil the duties of the State: strange and costly objects do not interest me. […] Such has been the procedure for many years … our Celestial Empire possesses all things in prolific abundance and lacks no product within its own borders. […]
    Should your vessels touch the shore, your merchants will assuredly never be permitted to land or to reside there, but will be subject to instant expulsion. In that event your barbarian merchants will have had a long journey for nothing. Do not say that you were not warned in due time! Tremblingly obey and show no negligence!

    It seems that you think Trump is like vaingloriously deluded Emperor Qianlong in the strength of the country he commands. This is a mistake the Chinese are not making. There is however one very great weakness of Trump compared to Qianlong, and that is Trump can, and it seems will, be replaced by someone who thinks his predecessor has been doing everything wrong. The US corporate elite hunkered down in the expectation of Trump becoming a one term president and in a few months they will almost certainly be proved right when Biden–candidate of what is now the big business party– beats Trump

    Ultimately, I think China have already won so it is just a matter of time.

    Agreed.

    India might end up being the preeminent power in this century.

    Yes Russia seems to be destined for stagnation and if it stayed out of a mutually suicidal US-China conflict, India would be well placed to be the associative mating breeding ground for a high IQ overclass swarming into the West. America cannot pulp China, but could take the Dragon down with it in much the same way Britain’s ‘victory’ over Germany in world wars proved pyrrhic. However that is only a theoretical possibility, the retired generals like McMaster and Spaulding warning of China are almost entirely without influence by comparison to the Wall Street and corporate elite who want in on Chinese growth.

    It was the East India Company being paid in British silver for the opium that replaced Indian cotton as a crop in the most prosperous parts of India and using the silver to buy tea that could be sold to Britain, that deindustrialsed the previously advanced manufacturing and cotton spinning in Bengal; and led to endless misery and famine in the benighted land, which is now Bangladesh. The same process is being used on the West by its own hyper-capitalist elite. And working whites are as helpless as the Indians were, naval shadow boxer “Jim Kirk” notwithstanding.

  136. Tor597 says:
    @Eugene Norman

    Its almost comical seeing a still powerful America try and lash out at China every which way it can, only to see everything blow up in its face and hurt America much more.

    1) America banning TicTok will likely result in other countries questioning why they don’t do the same against Google, FB, and Twitter. Whoops!

    2) Trying to ban Huwai by imprisoning the CEOs daughter and banning sales will only result in America falling behind in technology and force China to compete directly in semiconductors.

    3) Sponsoring color revolutions in China only to see a much worse version spring up in America.

    4) Releasing corona virus in China, only to see it come back and kill many more Americans.

  137. Herald says:
    @Chinaman

    India might end up being the preeminent power in this century.

    And I might win the November election. Vote Herald!

    • Agree: AnonFromTN
  138. @Ron Unz

    Could all these bombastic rhetoric be like the stars wars program in the 80s? Hoping the Chinese leaders are weak and stupid, might actually bend the knee?

    I just can’t wrap my head around how the American govt can be that stupid. Or hoping that the Chinese govt is that weak n stupid.

    • Replies: @dogbumbreath
  139. Boss says:
    @antibeast

    East Asians are nothing compare To Balkan,Chechens or Afgans and beside that they are short and small penis creatures

  140. Cking says:
    @Mary Marianne

    The fact is, since WWII, the post-WW Opium Trade Agreement, Requisitioning Chiang Kai-shek to Taiwan, Nixon, Bush, and the Clintons, China grew to its present status under US protection, care, and dollars. No need to legitimize the equally chauvinistic policy ‘China can make the US Navy behave’. This is not prudent statecraft on China’s part, and to besmirch the American outlook and say that the now obsolete US Navy is not needed in the South China Sea region is, I think, ignorant. China cannot profit by provocative, unconstructive, and reckless policy, that could inadvertently spark war. And Americans who hate America, and think they’re geopolitical geniuses, that is most of the people here, are wasting their time.

    • Replies: @d dan
  141. Anon[406] • Disclaimer says:
    @JohnPlywood

    Joo-S-A is rotting from the inside from all the drugs, alcohol, sexual deviance, pornography, prostitution, gambling, crime, left wing/LGBTQ lunacy, over immigration, Wall Street greed, dishonesty, Deep State, civil strive. It’s inevitable. Jews are a people driven to excess, they just can’t help themselves.

    China hasn’t got to lift a finger, this Jew empire will burn itself to the ground. I give it two generations.

  142. Anon[406] • Disclaimer says:
    @Malla

    LOL the only country even more of a paper tiger than China is India.

  143. Thim says:

    Childish article. Set up a straw man then knock it down.

    The carriers will sit well out of range. The attack will come via drones. ZOG has many drone bases nearby, not just on Guam. The attack will also come from space, from Taiwan, probably Vietnam, and elsewhere.

    China has no real friends in the region except the insane shytte for brains dictator in Manila, who will soon be gone.

    I cannot respect a writer who wants us to believe the Navy would be so stupid as to launch an attack from carriers within striking range of the Chinese missiles. Not that I believe the missiles would hit home. If Russian missiles yes, but not that Chinese junk.

    I do believe that war is coming. Probably it will be a minor war. ZOG will pound the islands into mush, destroying everything on them, and leave it at that.

    The Spratleys belong to the Phillipines.

    • Replies: @Biff
    , @denk
  144. Malla says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    From what I have read of Chinese online postings, the bits I understand is that the Chinese people didn’t even know India existed as a security threat until the recent deadly border troubles.

    I know.

    For a guy like me reading all these. It is like India is acting up to get China’s attention. But why? India is willing to let it’s soldiers die just to distract China’s focus away from their east coast?

    India does not care about no East Coast. The Indian Nation believes China to be its enemy. A lot to do with 1962 war and China’s friendship with Pakistan. China has repeatedly foiled India’s attempts to isolate Pakistan.
    In India the story pushed around is is that Xi Ping was trying to divert attention for his own failings by attacking India.
    Secondly the place (Galwan) where the clashed took place is very close to a road which connects to a forward Indian base which could have become a threat to CPEC.

  145. Malla says:
    @Bill Jones

    Isn’t that rather a racist statement?

    Do we know if he was born with his racism or did he come by it honestly?

    Isn’t the whole blaming people for racism business full of such contradictions and ironies.

  146. @Desert Fox

    I think you’re on to something: Israel & China are working together. Israel’s job is to destroy USA to make way for China; Israel will ditch USA, leech onto China.

    The cities being destroyed are former Jewish strongholds — Rabbi Stephen, a key figure in starting war against Germany in 1933, started his career in Portland.
    For some time Jews have been telling other Jews to leave NYC.

    Rick Wiles implies that Israel, specifically Netanyahu the Desperate, is/are behind the destruction of Beirut.

    Is that in the master-plan or a Bibi act of desperation to stay out of jail and in power?

    • Replies: @Desert Fox
  147. Anon[219] • Disclaimer says:
    @Alfred

    China is no more landlocked than USA is ,
    Having said that China doesn’t have any legal or moral right to 9 dash, It doesn’t mean Vietnam has either .
    China is getting pushed by USA . Russia is neutral now . Russia has its own American 5 th columns .

    China has Pakistan , NK , Iran and possibly Cambodia . But it doesn’t need any active war . American downward moral political social and intellectual slides don’t need an external enemy .

    India is a ‘country of yesterday ‘ , geographical and ethnic divisions and caste issues have always kept it vulnerable to foreign invasions , Neoliberalism replaced colonization which replaced feudal economy . Indian elite was always ready to accept and embrace any new winner .
    The Hindu votaries and beneficiaries of Mughal rule kicked Mughal in the teeth when British established rule of crown in 1857. A new identity developed but failed to paper over the deep fissures . The Hindu elite embraced British rule . Now they have American . These elite might accept Chinese as the leader if the economic interest of the core Brahmincal elite not hurt .
    The animosity against Muslim in India is as much as the products of British selectivity as it is the basic foundation of the Hinduvatta that was promoted way before any Muslim even had made any presence felt in politics in British Raj . Without presence of Muslim , India would break up from old fissures informed by religious diversity , ethnic tension, linguistic differences .

    There is no future of India except as intellectual and economic vassal of the existing power .

    Covid or a devastating war involving Israel Iran Lebanon would or continued US misadventure would or can upend USA ‘s position . Indian elite will look for escape hatch . Covid possibly has set India back to 1990 economic situation . It’s economic plan offers no path out of it . All it has ‘ Congress era Hindu growth and few cows ‘.

    It is rewriting history and building temples after rewriting history before and building a big statue of Patel .

    • Replies: @Malla
  148. @antibeast

    China is also Asia’s leading Civilization

    How do you characterise that civilisation? After recovering somewhat, maybe in a major reaction, from the Cultural Revolutiion which was aimed to destroy the old, what is this exportable cavitation which still relates itself to the founding of the Marxist-Leninist Communist Party? What is going to attract other societies?

    • Replies: @antibeast
  149. @SolontoCroesus

    In my opinion the zionist kabal is in control of the world by virtue of their ownership of all the central banks in every country especially in the ZUSS and they are now using the covid-19 scam, hoax, psyop to finish the takeover and bring in a draconian, demonic , satanic one world government.

    All the supposed disagreements between the major powers is a psyop, they are all under zionist control and that includes China and Russia as proven by their taking part in the covid-19 psyop, covid-19 is an imaginary virus .

    • Agree: TheTrumanShow
  150. Finding information on China’s banking system is cumbersome, at best. I don’t have the patience. At first glance all I found was Forbes claiming that China limits interest on loans to 38%. There I stopped. So, I’m going to hazard a guess as to how China developed so fast. Their State owned banks do not lend money into existence. It’s not fractional reserve banking. It’s not related to or controlled by the thieves of London. If I’m right; there will be war.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  151. Biff says:
    @Thim

    Chinese junk?

    A junk is a type of Chinese sailing ship with fully battened sails. They were developed during the Song dynasty (960–1279) based on Austronesian ship designs, examples of which have been trading with the Eastern Han dynasty since the 2nd century AD.

  152. Smith says:

    Lot of noises going around, from USAian side “muh Murica best evar we fattest we richest”, to chinks side “muh China best evar we most populous we smartest”. These noises actually help each other.

    USAian are trying to use China to make themselves look less bad.
    China meanwhile points to the USAian and make their citizen more nationalist (and they are honestly right, who is proud to be USAian these days?).

    But look at the objective truth, the chink influence on the globe is way smaller than USA. So in this conflict, it is better to stay neutral or NOT help USAian beat chinks or vice versa, let them duke it out to see who race to the bottom first.

    When the USA is beaten, that’s a win for every nationalists ever, WORLDWIDE, China cannot get out of Asia (aside from Singapore, which is a chinese colony they took from Malaysian), let alone controlling the world, it’s just a bunch of hogwash smear feared by USAian and believed by chinks (like the same lie that chinks/USAian spread about how Vietnam was gonna colonize the whole SEA if not for the “heroic” failed Vietnam invasion by Deng Xiaoping in 1979).

    tl;dr: stay neutral, or don’t help USA or China, follow your country’s national interests, that’s all you need to do.

    • Replies: @AnonCN
  153. @antibeast

    “China is also Asia’s leading Civilization”

    Acupuncture, herbal medicine, meridians, Lao Tzu, Confucius, some nice terra cotta figurines, porcelain, misty water-color landscapes, twangy singing, a big wall, some nice wooden buildings…..did I miss anything? Oh yeah, the junk rig and venetian blinds. Some civilization.

    Were it not for Europe’s uplifting, benevolent, civilizing, scientific influence, all the Orient would be mired in rice patties, walking behind water buffalo and fertilizing their fields with human excrement.

    Show some respect for your benefactors, ingrate. You worship your ancestors when you should bow down and thank us.

    • Replies: @AnonCN
    , @antibeast
    , @denk
  154. Sulu says:

    How many operational carriers does China have? Two? How many nuclear carriers? Zero!
    The U.S. Navy has 11 nuclear carriers deployed and are building more.

    It will take China a generation to even begin to catch up to where the U.S. Navy is now. And in 30 years how much more advanced will the U.S. Navy be? Meanwhile rumor has it that the U.S. Navy is going to have bases in the Philippines once again, no doubt as a counter to China.

    And what about the so called “tic-tac” ufo video and the “go fast” video that was released a couple years ago by the U.S. Navy? Some might say it is evidence of aliens but I suspect the truth is not quite so exotic. Much more likely is that it was a not so subtle message to America’s foes that we already have antigravity technology. If we have WWIII all the toys that have been secret for the last 50 years will be brought out of the attic.

    I am not in the military but I have friends there. More than one person that I trust has told me that our military has technology that is 40 or 50 years ahead of what is generally acknowledged. One friend that is an electronics whizz claimed he has worked on vehicles that I wouldn’t believe and he refused to provide me with any additional details about it. As well he should.

    At this point in time China is no match for the U.S. Navy. What the future holds in anyone’s guess but I suspect if a conflict occurs in the South China Sea political will is going to play just as big a part in what happens as military capability. If America decides it’s will be too costly to stop Chinese aggression in the region it may withdraw. But if we decide it’s vital to our interests we have the power to stop China cold.

    Do I think America will eventually fall as the predominant military power on the planet? Yes. We are already in decline as a country. But if conflict broke out in the South China Sea between China and the U.S. tomorrow we have the military assets to win it.

    Sulu

  155. d dan says:
    @Cking

    “The fact is, since WWII, the post-WW Opium Trade Agreement, Requisitioning Chiang Kai-shek to Taiwan, Nixon, Bush, and the Clintons, China grew to its present status under US protection, care, and dollars. “

    Total nonsense. Since WW2, US has engaged with China in direct war (Korean war), proxy war (Vietnam war), indirect war (multiple Taiwan crisis), overt and covert (color or otherwise) revolutions (Tibet, Xinjiang, Hong Kong, Tienanmen,…), nuclear blackmails, propaganda wars, embargoes, sanctions, continued to the recent trade wars, tech wars, diplomatic wars, cold war 2, and some may even consider the bio-attack (covid-19). Therefore, to characterize that China has been under the “protection” and “care” of US is a total insult to the intelligence of any decent people, befitting only the perverted minds of the exceptional.

    As to the dollars that US invested. Firstly US investment is only a small percentage of China’s FDI (about 2%, source: https://santandertrade.com/en/portal/establish-overseas/china/foreign-investment). Secondly, those investments were not for charity – US corporations have make trillions of profits out from them.

    I have rebutted this point to you before, but I guess you feel the need to keep repeating the same lies – perhaps because:

    “A lie told once remains a lie but a lie told 1000 times becomes the truth.” – by Joseph Goebbels

  156. d dan says:
    @Half-Jap

    You are equivocating and self-contradicting on multiple places in a short comment.

    “In any event, it matters not what either of us think. “

    If you believe what we think does not matter, why did you keep repeating your points? Why even commenting? Your action tells us it matters.

    “In the end, it is not about truth, but diplomacy and relative power.”

    If that is the case, then why do you assert that “All you say are unsupported in any event?” So there is such thing as truth and supported event, isn’t it? So you believe history is written by the winner, and the history is also written by the truth teller?

    Most Chinese are not interested to have war with Japan – it only benefits the Americans. But you keep making subtle or not so subtle excuses to revise the history (Imperial Japan was at fault – but not so much at fault, the “medical unit” 731, etc). How can you then blame the Chinese (and the Koreans) for not moving on?

    • Replies: @Half-Jap
  157. Malla says:
    @Anonymous

    Check this out

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Empire_Economic_Conference
    British Empire Economic Conference in Ottawa Canada, 1932

    India was represented by Sir Atul Chandra Chatterjee who had earlier served as the Indian High Commissioner to the United Kingdom from 1925 to 1931.

    From the above
    The British Empire Economic Conference (also known as the Imperial Economic Conference or Ottawa Conference) was a 1932 conference of British colonies and the autonomous dominions held to discuss the Great Depression. It was held between 21 July and 20 August in Ottawa.

    “The conference saw the group admit the failure of the gold standard and abandon attempts to return to it. The meeting also worked to establish a zone of limited tariffs within the British Empire, but with high tariffs with the rest of the world. This was called “Imperial preference” or “Empire Free-Trade” on the principle of “home producers first, empire producers second, and foreign producers last”. The result of the conference was a series of bilateral agreements that would last for at least 5 years.[1] This abandonment of open free trade led to a split in the British National Government coalition: the Official Liberals under Herbert Samuel left the Government, but the National Liberals under Sir John Simon remained.

    The conference was especially notable for its adoption of Keynesian ideas such as lowering interest rates, increasing the money supply, and expanding government spending.

    The United States were annoyed by the implementation of Imperial Preference as it affected them economically.[2]”

    Basically every part of the Empire, Australia, Canada, India, South Africa etc… would give preferences to native home industries first, after that to other members within the Empire before allowing foreign entities at all. This was a major threat to the USA (Wall Street) as a major chunk of the planet (British Empire) was setting barriers of trade with them. It was obviously directed at the psycho nutcases of Wall Street for bringing about the misery of the Great Depression in the first place.

  158. Malla says:
    @Sulu

    China does not want conflict with the USA, it is America which seems to be going on the warpath. PR China has not taken any retribution against any American company. Not has it done the same with India even though the Indian Govt is hellbent on targeting Chinese firms in India. Whoever wins the war (if there is one), I hope history will note this.

    • Replies: @dogbumbreath
    , @Sulu
    , @mike99588
  159. Thank you, Pepe Escobar. Once again you have explained the essence of a seemingly intractable problem for us to understand.

    As it is, the the imposition of a Code of Conduct would tame the Empire. It couldn’t happen sooner as the world cannot bear any more of American heavy handedness.

  160. @Sean

    we need a war, and the sooner the better

    I don’t know if you’re serious when you say this, but assuming you are…

    You’re saying that as things stand, China will replace America as the world’s leading power, and that the way to prevent this is an American-Russian-Indian alliance. Okay, that’s a plan. But you don’t explain why anyone should support this. Is the argument pure self-interest, or do you have an argument from values which favors America over China, to the point of justifying war?

  161. Anon[160] • Disclaimer says:
    @JohnPlywood

    You think you so clever…

    China has already won the war. Don’t believe me? Look around you, how many Chinese faces do you see in America, not just along the East and West Coasts but even in places like TX, IN etc.? Better yet, go to any university campus.

    Immigration is the new mode of invasion in the 21st century, pioneered by the Jews throughout history, all without firing a single bullet. Whites are so dumb.

  162. AnonCN says:
    @Half-Jap

    You are not half-Jap, you are typical-Jap. Crazy islanders.
    Ready to take any extreme and mad actions if you see there are chances, but if the chances disappear your kind behave nicely like a human being and ignore the essence of thing happened just like nothing really matters to you. Most polite and disciplined people in office and public, yet at the same time the most perverted hentai psycho in private time and occasions. Humanoid programmed as some crazy robots. Most suppressed society with most obedient people which successfully made the ordinary people’s feelings and opinions count for nothing. People ready to change their narrative to follow their hereditary oligarchy politician elites any minute anyway.
    Doesn’t worth to communicate with a Japanese except for business or some bizarre experience that merit only in forms. A robot is a better choice if you are interested in its programmed feelings and opinions.
    Doesn’t trust any words of Japanese leaders no matter as ally or enemy. They only follow the chances of power & result, that’s all Jap values except the trivial and ritual. No value left for right & wrong, truth & false, content & process.
    No more to say the creepy understanding and perspective in shame and responsibly.

    • Troll: Malla
  163. Tor597 says:
    @Sulu

    Aircraft Carriers and UFO’s people. This is what America will bring to take down China 🤣.

    For you to not know that Aircraft Carriers are a liability in modern warfare completely discredits your analysis.

    As far as UFO technology goes. It could just as easily been a bluff by America to try and send a signal to China to back down. Sounds exactly like something Orange Man Trump would do.

    • Replies: @Sulu
  164. @Anon

    Strange thing is that now 10 percent of the semiconductor engineers on Taiwan moved to mainland China…
    Btw – most Taiwan residents have zero desire to get into a fight with their cousins 100km away. Guess where is their #1 place to go visit or do business…. No – not the US and no – not former colonial master Japan… It’s the same place you claim they would humiliate in an invasion. That invasion would only come if they declare independence… Which is why they never have…

  165. @Carlton Meyer

    Indeed – but the western MSM never highlights these things. Such as the fact that Taiwan – as the Republic of China also claims Senkaku as territory (as it does also the islands in the South China Sea).
    But yeah the poor Okinawan people never signed up for this. They expected to be returned independence as Ryuku.

  166. Half-Jap says:
    @Sulu

    In the age of supersonic and hypersonic weaponry and electronic warfare, those floating landing strips are more liability than effective force projection. I doubt even naval officers share your view.

    • Replies: @Sulu
  167. Half-Jap says:
    @d dan

    Thank you for the good points.

    There is truth, or fact supported by at least preponderance of evidence. However, such do not matter in political history, or even politics in general, as it is merely a contest on allocating resources, etc., regardless of the wisdom of the political decision.
    I do not revise history, but after revisiting them, much is mere fiction established by the victors, and recycled by the latecomer commies. Only the mainlanders and Koreans keep maintaining the narrative that suits, while the defeated continue research. However, a recent bestseller in Korea has also strongly challenged much of their anti-Japan narrative, showing me that the truth does matter after all to many of us.

    It is wilful ignorance to maintain that whatever is said of the enemy/Other is all true; I am skeptical of much of what is said about Mao, notwithstanding my family’s travails during the Cultural Revolution, and of Tien an men, seems outright fabrication for the global audience.

    To rephrase my earlier statement, I lament the practical effect that establishing the truth has, since internationally it is a political matter, while each people tell their own tales amongst one another. However, it is important that the truth is available, so at least engaging interested individuals does not end in pointless exchanges of politically correct but inflammatory history. The continuous miseducation merely perpetuates hatred, and if truth is available, there is a chance to move forward.

    I can go on and on about the shitshow that the early Showa engagement and eventual war with Nationalist China was, and at least the medical unit and experiments apparently did take place, with even the Americans recruiting the ‘scientists.’

    Going back to the senkaku islands, it seems to be a problem that exists only because of the westphalian territorial system. If only we can work something out outside of this system.

  168. AnonCN says:
    @ThreeCranes

    When the day come Chinese lead in 6G technology, if any Chinese dare to say that white inventions and leading contributions in 1G 2G 3G 4G eras are totally disrespectable worthless piece of shit since those are really some outdated trash technologies, I would predict that Chinese grow our ignorance and arrogance that will only lead to destined failure in 9G and 10G.
    When a westerner decide that east heritages are garbage in corner, what should I say? Yes, go ahead, your Greatness of Eternity.

    But here I try to be nice. Your logic is simple:
    West won, East is shit, so East will never rise.
    Nobles rule, peasants work, so peasant will always be serfs.
    Neighbor rich, me poor, so my bloodline is doomed and curse.

    Remember that: other people/race/nation/civilization always have the potential to win/lead as long as others are still alive & still trying. Its only a matter of time! Given the big picture, there is no fundamental difference between others and me. Ups & downs, live & die, same same. Every one has chances and potential, no one is really entitled.

    But you won’t agree, in your culture, someone is entitled, so it is, so it should be, so it will be.
    Yet strangely, you won’t stop blame your entitled, Jews, deep state, London banker…
    What a curse, what a endless cycle. Strongly believer in superiority and call out the entitled at the same time.

    • Replies: @ThreeCranes
  169. @Astuteobservor II

    Could all these bombastic rhetoric be like the stars wars program in the 80s? Hoping the Chinese leaders are weak and stupid, might actually bend the knee?

    I just can’t wrap my head around how the American govt can be that stupid. Or hoping that the Chinese govt is that weak n stupid.

    If you think of the geo-political situation with a clear head, it’s very likely the rhetoric is theatre….it also keeps the “sheep” occupied and controlled. This theatre can go “live”, as it has in the past, but the controlled damage and suffering will only come to the “sheep”. Whatever happens in war, the outcome will ALWAYS be towards a NWO.
    Something to consider. The United Nations Security Council has 5 permanent members (China, France, UK, Russia and the USA). Each of the 5 have Veto powers over others. Even in 1946 when the UN was formed, China and Russia (Soviet Union) were Communists and thus enemies of the West. Why would they be given a permanent seat with Veto powers? Makes zero sense. Only reasonable conclusion is they are all working together to form a Global World Order (NWO). The United Nations is the child of The League of Nations.

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Malla
    , @Malla
    , @FB
  170. Nationalism is 100% OK IMO.

    Blind nationalism can get you killed. Your family killed. Your nation destroyed. All because you were too stupid to not think before you leap.

    Whenever I asked someone seriously why they hate China or Russia, most gives me this blank look in their face as they couldn’t even come up with msm talking points that they were spoon fed with.

  171. @Malla

    China does not want conflict with the USA, it is America which seems to be going on the warpath. PR China has not taken any retribution against any American company. Not has it done the same with India even though the Indian Govt is hellbent on targeting Chinese firms in India. Whoever wins the war (if there is one), I hope history will note this.

    Just to be clear, History is always written by the winners. What is recorded will always include lies and omissions. Goes without saying, what you have read or been taught about history is NOT 100% fact….never will be.

    • Disagree: Malla
    • Replies: @Malla
  172. AnonCN says:
    @Smith

    Vietnamese noise here: two powers are fighting, so we wait and see, no side taking.
    It’s really healthy mindset for small countries. Also the mindset that: if a big country did not invade & finally stay for good in my homeland, I won. By this logic, Viet beat French, beat US, beat China. A women is not really raped as long as the penis finally leaves her body. Vagina muscle won. If a sperm left in the uterus help to create new life, this woman definitely won huge. This kind of mindset is totally OK and good for health to small country: remain existence in the world jungle equals to won.

    But for big country, win equals to realize the target, and there can be many targets on the table for big counties, so it could be fuzzy to judge whether it really win since the targets can be partially realized partially unclear.
    But for small country, oh, wait, I am wrong, remain existence is exactly the target, clean and clear. So yeah, Vietnamese won. King of the world. Viet f**ked French, US and China. Queen of the vagina.

    Remain existence = you win. Could this golden standard also apply to big country? I hope so, because I am not a sexist, I wish I am not.
    So everybody wins. What a happy world.

    • Replies: @Smith
  173. Sulu says:
    @Malla

    History will note what ever the winners of the war wish it to note. True or not.

    Sulu

    • Agree: Malla
  174. Sulu says:
    @Tor597

    Sounds like you are an obvious sufferer of Trump Derangement Syndrome.

    While my take on the tick tack video is simply speculation on my part, as I indicated, I can assure you that 11 nuclear powered aircraft carriers with their accompanying battle group is hardly an idle threat. And, there can be no doubt that the U.S. military has many assets that are not known to the general public. Exactly what that encompasses is open to conjecture. If you are not bright enough to arrive at that rather obvious conclusion, as your post would seem to indicate, I pity your lack of intellect. But you do sound like a leftie after all, so it is not surprising that critical thinking is not part of your skill set.

    You are right about one thing. The carriers are a liability. For China.

    Sulu

  175. @Malla

    Touching your last sentence, I wonder if you’re right about India. Modi, yes, very pro-Israel, but is that India?

    I have a suspicion, guess, that certain Jews, who in 1947 were plotting to colonize part of the Middle East, were also the plotters behind the breaking up of India in that year, and that there has been Israeli involvement all the India-Pakistan turmoil since. And yes I know the insanity of Islam, can’t allow a non-Muslim to govern Muslims, but still…

    It is possible that post-Modi, India will wake up, and start to see Israel very differently.

    • Replies: @Malla
  176. @Malla

    There should be a rule of sending retards to the front lines so they can die for their words.

    • LOL: Malla
    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Malla
  177. utu says:

    The US should seriously consider giving guarantees for Taiwan sovereignty.

    https://www.unz.com/pbuchanan/jinping-takes-up-the-us-challenge/#comment-3922573
    If the US is really going to contest and stop China, Taiwan is the place where to draw the line in the sand. The legal case for Taiwan sovereignty and independence from China within the international law is much more clear cut than that for Hong Kong. If the will of the Taiwanese who in majority do not have close historical links to China is to seek the independence then the US should help them. Actually it is the US that should give Taiwan guarantees that it will use all its power to protect the independence of Taiwan so Taiwan can proceed.

    China does not need to have Taiwan just like the US does not need to have Puerto Rico or Hawaii. If Puerto Rico or Hawaii decided to secede I would support any country, including China, that would help them to accomplish it. For similar reason I will support the US helping Taiwan achieve its independence.

    From the point of view of the rest of the world that consists of small countries and small nations neither China nor America are good guys or bad guys. They are powers that small nations and countries have to put up with. While America did some good in the world it also did a lot of evil. China has not been a power long enough yet in the modern era to demonstrate its full capacity for good and evil but nobody has any illusions that given a chance it won’t be much better than America.

    • Troll: d dan
    • Replies: @d dan
  178. mike99588 says:
    @Malla

    Of course “China” doesn’t want conflict with the USA.

    Conflict is bad for business and CCP China just wants the exploitative regime back where the CCP was able to increasingly rent or purchase our politicians for the last 45 years, and then suck the IP, forex and industry out.

    Also quality control, storage, handling and procedures with high energy weapons can be much more dangerous to the owner than the targets. See the Kursk‘s sinking incident, or even think about Beruit yesterday… I wouldn’t be surprised if the CCP military has a lot more tofu than Russia did.

  179. antibeast says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    How do you characterise that civilisation? After recovering somewhat, maybe in a major reaction, from the Cultural Revolutiion which was aimed to destroy the old, what is this exportable cavitation which still relates itself to the founding of the Marxist-Leninist Communist Party? What is going to attract other societies?

    To answer your questions:

    1. China is Communist (Marxist-Leninist) only in name; in reality it is the modern Socialist version of neo-Confucianism. Renaming the CCP as the Chinese Confucianist Party would be more accurate.

    2. The Cultural Revolution is similar to the Protestant Reformation which destroyed the feudal, medieval, ossified culture of the Medieval West. That’s what it took to destroy the medieval feudalism of Imperial China whose culture became ossified under the Qing Manchus. What’s been happening now is a revival of modern neo-Confucianism in both State and Society under the CCP in the PRC.

    3. China is the most successful modern State in all of Asia, better-run than even Japan, South Korea, Taiwan or Singapore. As such, China could provide its economic model of industrial development to developing countries not only in Asia but also in Latin America, Africa and Europe.

    4. Like the Italian Renaissance, China could lead the Asian Renaissance in the 21st century which would involve the rediscovery and revival of ancient and classical cultures of Asian Civilizations based on Confucianism, Taoism, Buddhism, etc. Asian countries that follow these ancient traditions could look up to China as the source of inspiration for their own cultural revival.

    China has no interest in reviving Marxism-Leninism which is a foreign import from the Soviet Union, nor is it interested in reenacting the bloody revolutions which were inspired by Maoism. Those revolutionary ideologies were a necessary but not sufficient condition to modernize China. The solution was Chinese Socialism based on modern neo-Confucianism which has succeeded in modernizing China.

    • Thanks: Wizard of Oz
    • Replies: @AnonCN
  180. antibeast says:
    @ThreeCranes

    Acupuncture, herbal medicine, meridians, Lao Tzu, Confucius, some nice terra cotta figurines, porcelain, misty water-color landscapes, twangy singing, a big wall, some nice wooden buildings…..did I miss anything? Oh yeah, the junk rig and venetian blinds. Some civilization.

    Dude, China was the center of Confucianist/Buddhist Civilization in East Asia, influencing Japan, Korea and Vietnam, from Art and Architecture, Philosophy and Religion, Science and Technology, Commerce and Industry, Ideology and Politics to Law and Government.

    Were it not for Europe’s uplifting, benevolent, civilizing, scientific influence, all the Orient would be mired in rice patties, walking behind water buffalo and fertilizing their fields with human excrement.

    Europe invaded but never colonized East Asia nor did it contribute its language, culture, religion, ideology, politics, philosophy, arts and architecture to China, Japan and Korea. The only European contribution was in Science and Technology in the late 19th century to early 20th century when Europe took the lead in Science and Technology in the world. But East Asia was ahead of Europe in Science and Technology for 2,000 years before then. China was already an Empire with State-built canals, dams and cities when much of Europe were still inhabited by cave-dwelling barbarians.

    Show some respect for your benefactors, ingrate. You worship your ancestors when you should bow down and thank us.

    It’s the other way around: Westerners should be grateful to Easterners who shared their knowledge in Science and Technology with them while they were mired in the Dark Ages for almost 1,000 years after the Fall of Rome. The British even got their industrial technology for making cotton textiles from the Indians, without which the Industrial Revolution could not have started in England, which finally propelled the West to surpass China in Science and Technology by the mid-19th century.

  181. Ber says:

    Did not know about the Chinese electronic superiority/capability in the SCS. Maybe this is the reason why there has been no World War. Looks like ‘peace’ is possible or likely.

  182. FB says: • Website
    @Sulu

    Much more likely is that it was a not so subtle message to America’s foes that we already have antigravity technology.

    Yet the US is playing catch up with Russia and China in hypersonic technology…

    ‘The Pentagon’s Hypersonic Weapon System Passes a Critical Flight Test’

    The U.S. military is racing to catch up with China and Russia in developing hypersonic weapons.

    An attempted copy of the Russian Iskander missile which has been around for ages…

    But I guess the US is keeping its ‘UFO’ technology a ‘secret’…?

    It’s not like the US likes to brag a lot about its technical ‘prowess’…? 😂 😂 😂

  183. Malla says:
    @Ann Nonny Mouse

    Touching your last sentence, I wonder if you’re right about India.

    Indian Hinduvadis can beat Christian Zionists in Jew ass kissing/licking any day hands down. It will not even be a contest. On a Hindu hypernationalist site, there were videos on British Raj, PR China, USA and in all of them the Hinduvadi nationalists were insulting and jeering at these nations for Great India. But on videos related to Israel, in a video where India did not support Israel on some issue in the U.N, we see a 180 deg turn. The Hinduvadi hyper-nationalists who love their motherland, suddenly started feeling ashamed of being Indian, cursing their own country for letting down Israel. They promised in the comments section that India will never ever let India down to the last blood.

    I have a suspicion, guess, that certain Jews, who in 1947 were plotting to colonize part of the Middle East, were also the plotters behind the breaking up of India in that year,

    Actually it were Jews who played a part in destroying the British Raj which the upper caste Hindus supported to the detriment of the lower caste masses. Samuel Montague is one of them.

    In the 1920’s , the Maharajah (King) of Kashmir in Northern India asked Sir Arthur Lothian, “why the British government was establishing a ‘Yehudi ka Raj’ (Rule of the Jews) in India?”. The Viceroy of India then , Lord Reading, was a Jew, the Secretary of State of India at that period, Mr. Edwin Montague, was a Jew, the High Commissioner, Sir William Meyer, was a Jew.

    When the Jewish Edwin Montague was selected to be the Secretary of State of British India, Harry Mcloed Fraser in his book Truth (1921), said that Montague had created anarchy all over the Indian subcontinent to organise Asia’s mute millions into a human avalanche to overwhelm Western Civilisation. Jews, Fraser maintained, were seeking to discredit and and weaken the British connection with India under the guise of forwarding Indian Nationalism, merely in order to make Jewish control and dominion more complete. He further added that ‘The British Raj has for a good many years, become less and less British and more a Jew Raj’, and concluded that Indian Swaraj (self government) ‘merely means Jewish Raj’

    AND GUESS WHAT? During the reign of Montague we see the Montague Clemsford reforms, where in an official document, Edwin Montague lamented that 95% of Indian masses were happy with British Raj govt of India but the British Raj government will itself create Indian Nationalism!!! It is during his tenure that we see a huge rise in anti British mass movements.

    • Thanks: Ann Nonny Mouse
    • Replies: @anon
    , @Malla
  184. Malla says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    Both are Army officers (one of them retired). But I doubt they would go to the frontline against the PLA (against the Pakistani Army sure but not the PLA), they would send some lowly Jawans (soldiers).

  185. Malla says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    Check this
    https://www.unz.com/emargolis/nuclear-rivals-clash-in-the-himalayas/#comment-4031011

    Also Major General Gen Bakshi (old guy with white moustache) says (about 12:34 minutes and later) that India should attack China now as China is stuck up in the East near Taiwan and South China Sea. Now is the time to attack China. Kinda reminds you of 1962 Indo-China war, when India sneaked in thinking as Chinese military was concentrated on the East coast, we could move in easy and put pressure.
    The Indian deep state may smell a similar opportunity now.

    He also says (16:10 minutes) that Indian does not need America, Japan, Australia (QUAD partners) or even Vietnam and should not depend on them. He says India itself is big and strong enough to crush China. India only want the others to tie up China in other theaters of war.

    Maybe the Indian deep state is working with the US deep state against China now. But India is no vassal of USA when it comes to hatred for China. Even if the USA disappears tomorrow from this planet, Indian deep state and brainwashed masses are anti-China.

  186. Malla says:
    @dogbumbreath

    Sorry, I meant Agree. Clicked the wrong button.

  187. Malla says:
    @dogbumbreath

    Why would they be given a permanent seat with Veto powers? Makes zero sense.

    Agree.

    And why would a Soviet Commie agent in the US Govt, Harry Dexter White, play a part in creating the Bretton Woods System which made the U.S. Dollar THE CURRENCY of the World? And USA’s supposedly superpower enemy USSR did not say anything about the currency of its enemy becoming the World Reserve currency.

    And the USA, a supposedly christian democratic country supplied the Communist USSR with land lease largess. In which sane world does that happen? James Perloff even believes that FDR forced the Japanese into attacking Pearl Harbour to make sure that Imperial Japan never attacks the USSR in the East and so got them involved in a war with the USA. At the same time get a opportunity to get at NS Germany. NS Germany and Japanese Empire were the best forces against spread of Communism in the World. And two Christian Democratic countries USA and Britain played their parts in destroying both. Ya rite. They all work for the NWO alright.

  188. antibeast says:
    @Anonymous

    Let me help you understand the nuances of International Law.

    ROC (Taiwan) stands for Republic of China which is recognized by only 14 out of 193 UN member-nations with whom it enjoys diplomatic relations — ipso facto — the PRC can legally annex the island of Taiwan and turn “ROC (Taiwan)” into the “Provisional Government of the Province of Taiwan of the PRC”. The rest is just fine details which PRC emissaries will work out with the Provisional Government of Taiwan.

    Westerners confuse the State called “Republic of China (Taiwan)” with the island called “Taiwan”. But all Western nations including the USA recognize the PRC (China) — not the ROC (Taiwan) — as the legitimate government of the whole of China, including the island of Taiwan as part of China. There is no legal dispute as to the National Sovereignty of the PRC (China) over the island of Taiwan. But there is a legal dispute as to what kind of system under which Taiwan should become part of China. Since the HK riots a year ago, China has effectively abandoned the “One Country-Two Systems” formula by passing the National Security Law for HK. China was proposing the same formula to Taiwan but will likely abandon it in favor of direct rule from Beijing.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  189. antibeast says:
    @Malla

    The Bengal rebellion was the mutiny of the Bengal army of the British East India Company later joined by Maratha princes. It had more to do with religion than anything else. The mutiny was triggered with the rumour that the Army cartridges which had to be bitten off was smeared with Beed and Pork fat, Cows being holy to Hindus and Pork being considered Haram for Muslims.

    British EIC Bombay Army in the West and British EIC Madras Army in the South refused to mutiny. Many Indians like the Sikhs and Gurkhas supported the British. Partly because they did not want the Mughal Empire to come back.

    Each sub-group in the rebellion had its own agenda, the Hindu Marathas wanted to re-establish their Maratha Empire, the Muslims wanted the Mughal Emperor back and so on and so forth. Thus there was a lot of “conflict of interest” in-between the main factions fighting against the British.

    So the Muslim Bengalis in the British EIC Bengal Army mutinied in the East, later joined by Hindu Marathas. But the Sikhs and Gurkhas couldn’t get along with them because of their differing religions.

    This sounds to me more like the British exploited the sectarian conflicts in India using their classic “divide-and-rule” strategy. Why didn’t the Bengalis rebel against the British for causing the Bengal Famine of 1770?

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Malla
  190. karel says:
    @Sulu

    Great thoughts. How many missiles would one need to sink or seriously cripple two ”operational” carriers in the China sea? Probably less than twenty, each probably for less than 500k $.

    • Replies: @Sulu
  191. FB says: • Website

    There is no question that the US is trying and failing to somehow put a stick in the wheel of China’s industrial juggernaut that is now bestriding the globe…

    Some here have noted that the US economy is basically financial smoke and mirrors…this is of course the secret reality, and we will only get a full glimpse of the catastrophe once it is truly well upon us…and that is going to be at a time and place of China’s choosing…

    It will come when China chooses to decouple…not the US…

    The sharpest insight into this unfolding drama is in the undisputed flagship industry among the most developed nations of world…the manufacture of passenger jets…

    It’s not lost on anyone [hopefully] that this industry is not only the pinnacle of national prestige, with only a handful of the most advanced nations participating [or more accurately dominating] this space…but also the most strategic technology, since making aircraft and jet engines requires the same kind of knowhow as making missiles and ICBMs and spacecraft…it’s all part and parcel of the aerospace industry, the very foundation stone of national power in the modern world…

    Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, the US and Europe have been able to grab the high ground and dominate the world in civil aviation…but this is also the ‘final frontier’ for China to crack open…Russia, at one time accounting for a third of global aviation, is also making a strong comeback, and the two are joining forces to overturn western preeminence in this most vital sector…

    A well known aviation analyst notes…

    I’ve spent decades now saying they’re trying to break into the market and they’re not gonna succeed,” he says.

    “But I got it all wrong. The reality is that they’re preparing for a great decoupling between the West and China.

    Richard Abulafia, A Divorce Jet

    He’s talking about the Chinese-developed C919 jet, a short to medium range aircraft in the class of the B737 or Airbus 320…the most prolific class of civil transport aircraft…

    The first C919 was rolled out of Comac’s Shanghai factory on Nov. 2, 2015

    Since that debut, the C919 has made arduous but methodical progress…it first flew in 2017 and is currently expected to come into passenger service in the next year or two…

    But the gloves are now off and the mask has dropped, as we see from the very forthright comments now popping up in the silly aviation press, which for years offered up ridiculous pabulum about how Chinese, and Russian for that matter, aircraft just couldn’t ‘compete’ against western technology or ‘quality’…

    If it ever happens.

    Scott Kennedy, a senior adviser at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, D.C., calls the C919 a practice plane that has little chance of commercial success.

    The same old wishcasting about China failing that we have been subjected to our by our ridiculous media and chattering classes [like this ridiculous stink tank denizen] for decades [UNZ contributor Godfree Roberts occasionally likes to post a long and extremely hilarious list of headlines from the last three decades, predicting China’s imminent collapse]…

    But now the flailing empire is going to play hardball…

    The C919 also faces significant regulatory hurdles in getting certified to fly outside of China…

    Though certification by Chinese authorities is certain, letting the C919 fly within Chinese airspace, approval by the US’s FAA and Europe’s EASA is a much higher hurdle.

    Kennedy says the FAA and EASA may even try to use their influence as a protective measure.

    “You could also see the US or Europe try to extend their regulatory authority even to countries where they’re not certifying,” he says. “They could try to push countries to not buy these planes.”

    So it’s no longer about the ‘technology’ and ‘quality’…?

    My, my…

    And using the FAA and EASA to kill the nascent Chinese aviation industry in the womb is not the only tactic available to the ‘free enterprise’ west…

    Like Boeing and Airbus which buy their engines, avionics, landing gear and other major systems from outside suppliers, COMAC is doing the same, relying on western suppliers for all of those key pieces…

    And that’s where a very powerful bit of western leverage comes in, as the resurgent Russian aviation industry has found out the hard way…it’s own new passenger jet in this category, the MC21, also initially specified western engines and parts…but the US has been slapping all kinds of sanctions that make it impossible for countries like Iran that want to buy Russian jets, to take delivery because of the western content…

    In response the Russians have quite adroitly managed to develop a new state-of-the-art engine, the PD14, as well as all the other parts that go into their new jet, as well as previously produced aircraft already on the market…

    …if Western countries decide to restrict the sale of aircraft components — a possibility the Trump administration has hinted at — Comac has no Chinese-made products to fall back on, for engines or anything else. And though the country wants to develop its own aviation parts infrastructure, a completely domestically produced plane is unlikely…

    Of course, the Chinese could then simply source all those engines and other parts from Russia, which HAS developed them already…

    Once again, we conclude that our media presentation of somehow hobbling China’s rise is laughably delusional…

    China’s internal market alone is more than enough to support a world-class aviation industry…especially considering the massive growth potential as China rises into a middle, and eventually high income country, and the growth in air transport that comes with that upward mobility…Boeing last year predicted that China would spend upwards of three trillion dollars on buying over 8,000 aircraft in the next 20 years…that’s over 150 billion dollars a year…

    Russia, albeit much smaller has its own very viable internal aircraft market, and has traditionally been one of the most air travel intensive countries in the world, owing to its huge geographic footprint…

    And then there is Africa and the rest of the ‘shithole’ countries…which are not only going to dwarf the rest of the world in population in the next two decades, but will inevitably have hundreds of millions of relatively prosperous inhabitants that will make use of air travel more and more…considering especially that China is massively investing in Africa and helping them to develop with infrastructure and energy and trade, that good will, plus China’s industrial prowess for affordable products, including aviation, will almost certainly displace the current position of Boeing and Airbus…

    And what of these two flagship giants of western technology and prestige…?

    How is the global aviation industry going to look 20 years form now, when have double or triple the amount of jet travel worldwide, most of it from outside the already saturated west…?

    I don’t think we need to rely on the wishcasting ‘prognostiactions’ of such analyst/clowns as we see in the above linked article…

    And, in case anybody is still wondering…as Boeing goes, so goes the west…how do you say ‘buh bye’ in Mandarin…?

    • Thanks: Jazman
  192. Half-Jap says:
    @FB

    Beijing, which I have visited more times than I can recall, is mostly well built, but relative to Tokyo, it is easy to spot sore reminders that they aren’t after thoroughness. Missing this, loose that, mismatched or quickly dilapidated, I hope their planes have better quality control. Boeing’s shit, no doubt about that these days, but is the knockoff brand any better? We’ll just have to see, eh. A contest between the welfare queens.

    • Replies: @FB
  193. Jiminy says:

    A timely story, lest we forget the 75 th anniversary of the Japanese holocaust taking place. America using the end of ww2 as a pretence to demonstrate their new 2 billion dollar toy to the rest of the world. Who would have known then that they would keep us all safe from destruction.

  194. FB says: • Website
    @Half-Jap

    And of course, neutered Japan’s ‘aircraft industry’ is going to set the world on fire…?

    Right after they actually build their FIRST airplane, either military or civilian…?

    • Replies: @Half-Jap
  195. denk says:

    Border Talks Stall: India Demands Total Withdraw Of PLA Troops

    The hubris.
    Reneging on the 1996 agreement where
    both sides agreed not to use firearms in border skirmishes, Modi JI has given frontline commanders permission to shoot at sight,
    agreement be damned.

    Its not for nuthin that,
    India is known as the USA of South Asia,
    even MOdi reeks like Trump in SA !

    Looks like Indians aint that smart.

    The current set up is advantageous to India.
    Indian soldiers enjoy physical advantages in unarmed combat due to their larger size, whereas in a shooting war, Chinese superior firepower would ensure a rout
    Bear in mind the PLA whacked the Jawans in 1962 even when Indians were armed with superior weapons from USA, USSR.

    With that 1996 agreement the Chinese had voluntarily tied up one hand , bending backwards to appease Delhi.

    Be careful what you wish for,
    MOdi JI.

    I suspect the Chinese must be secretly chuckling at MOdi’s recklessness to escalate from kungfu fighting to firefights.
    ‘You want a shooting war, come on and
    make my day’ !

    • Replies: @Malla
  196. denk says:
    @Sulu

    But if we decide it’s vital to our interests we have the power to stop China cold**

    Myth
    Trump is a non -interventionist.

    [from the horse mouth, ]
    Orange clown,

    *we must stop all foreign interventions…………*

    read the fine print kids,

    unless its to defend our national interests !

    Pray tell , which foreign intervention since 1785 wasnt justified by ‘defending our national interests‘ ?

    What might those ‘national interest’ be ?
    Corporate profits, multiple military bases, repayment of debts incurred by the wealthy and repaid on the backs of the poor

    https://zcomm.org/zcommentary/wars-no-more-by-blas-bonpane/

  197. @Eugene Norman

    I’m fairly neutral on this debate (…).

    The Chinese century is coming. We Europeans should abandon the US and ally with them.

    Coherence: zero. Gall: ten. Average: five. Passed.

  198. denk says:
    @ThreeCranes

    *Show some respect for your benefactors, ingrate. You worship your ancestors when you should bow down and thank us.*

    YOu had your Chinese exclusion Act even when the chinamen were mere coolies building your raid roads.

    You still have your Chinese Exclusion Act today, cuz China is getting too strong for your liking, even when all the Chinese want is…..
    to upgrade your Chinese buit raid road !

    Because of your total embargo and sanction, The Chinese only way was to DIY themselves.

    I guess you’r right after all.
    Thanks to your GLobal Chinese exclusion Act,
    The Chinese now have their very own space stations, Beidou, J20, aircraft carriers…etc etc.

    GO easy with that total embargo on chips to China, it might just be the incentive for the Chinese to spring a HUawei Inside surprise in your face.

  199. Jazman says:
    @FB

    Always pleasure reading your comments especially related to aviation and military

    • Thanks: FB
  200. Anonymous[261] • Disclaimer says:
    @the grand wazoo

    It’s not fractional reserve banking. It’s not related to or controlled by the thieves of London. If I’m right; there will be war.

    The West’s reason for war with China is morally repugnant in the extreme.

    Somebody structures their society and economy so as to avoid the mistakes of ours, they succeed in brilliant fashion, and all the while they have no desire for military domination, nor do they seek to undermine anyone else’s country.

    At worst, they seek to engage in vigorous business competition, to advance their technology, to gave good lives for their people, and to forge ahead.

    And the West’s response to China is . . . WAR?!?

    SHEER INSANITY

  201. @FB

    The Certification game cannot work. As China can also play the same game with American or European jets.

    Since at that point, all gloves are off.

  202. Half-Jap says:
    @FB

    Another ‘what-about’ eh. Such a pathetic non-argument.
    Been ages since Japan made one but what is your point against mine? I do not recall mentioning anything Japan. No need to display your pathetic hatred against Japan so needlessly. Poor taste.

  203. denk says:
    @Thim

    China has no real friends in the region except the insane shytte for brains dictator in Manila,

    Duterte enjoys a higher popularity rating IN Ph than all the [[[five liars]]] con- artistes passing off as statemen combined.

    who will soon be gone.**

    Dont ever take it lightly when a five liars predicts someone’s imminent demise.
    its often Insider info.
    Duterte has complained about deteriorating health, most likely the [[[mofo]]] in FUKUS have gotten to him the same way [[[they]]] poison Chavez.
    It’d be a piece of cake,
    The Ph army/police are crawling with CIA 5 COlumns, even their VICE prez is a known, FUKUS stooge.

    The Spratleys belong to the Phillipines.**

    You dont understand English, those are ‘disputed’ territories.

  204. FB says: • Website

    The Certification game cannot work. As China can also play the same game with American or European jets.

    It’s not that cut and dried…

    The major regulatory bodies like the Federal Aviation Administration and the European counterpart EASA, which oversee the testing of prototype aircraft and certificating them for entry into public service, do indeed hold the hammer card right now…

    Almost every country in the world has air travel, but only a tiny handful have their own regulatory agencies that can undertake the mammoth technical task of certifying a new aircraft type…besides the above two also Russia and China, and that’s basically it…most others simply rely on certification by the big two, FAA and EASA…

    So this means that if this new Chinese aircraft, or any other that comes after it, is denied that precious certificate, the entire world market is pretty much denied…

    This is a big deal of course in terms of selling Chinese aircraft outside of China, especially in the developing world that would most likely benefit from lower-cost Chinese aircraft…

    What can China do in return…?

    Not that much right now…it can of course satisfy its own aviation needs, which is a huge and rapidly growing market anyway…but it cannot prevent new aircraft from Boeing and Airbus flying into and out of China, simply because all those foreign airlines flying Boeing and Airbus equipment, both from the west and non-western countries, make up a huge portion of international air travel to and from China…

    In principle, China could do what you suggest, banning new western aircraft from China, as it did with the MAX after that second crash in Ethiopia last year…but it’s not really feasible…

    Instead, what will work is exactly what has worked for China until now…the slow and steady path…build up its own aviation industry, using its own airplanes for domestic needs and partnering with Russia for international support…

    We note here that the two nations are jointly developing the CR929 long-haul, wide body jet that is going to compete with the likes of Boeing 787 and Airbus A350…which promises to be a carbon fiber technology dazzler…

    China and Russia also recently announced that they plan to develop space cooperation and even a joint moon mission and permanent moon base…!

    So with Russia’s advanced technical know-how, plus diplomatic pull the two are going to make some very big things happen…don’t bet against the ‘double helix’…

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
    , @Miro23
  205. Sulu says:
    @karel

    And if China was foolish enough to even attempt that much less do it the U.S. would bomb them back to the stone age. Shanghai and Beijing would vanish in nuclear fire. The Chinese know this and obviously don’t want it. I don’t see all out war happening between China and the U.S. Both sides are going to rattle their sabers but any real conflict would damage the U.S. but would destroy China.

    Sulu

    • Replies: @karel
  206. d dan says:
    @utu

    utu has been trolling this issue multiple times, and I have rebutted him repeatedly:

    https://www.unz.com/pbuchanan/jinping-takes-up-the-us-challenge/#comment-3922873

    Let me elaborate more thoroughly my point-by-point rebuttals to show how ridiculous, dangerous and unrealistic his proposal is.

    “If the US is really going to contest and stop China…”

    There is no reason US should contest and stop China. Both countries can live peacefully together. This is a outdated zero-sum mentality of a narrow-minded people.

    “Taiwan is the place where to draw the line in the sand.”

    Taiwan is an internal affair of China – as I would argue below, it is ridiculous, dangerous and unrealistic to draw the line here. Even if we accept utu’s fault assumption that US should contest and stop China – there are plenty of areas to do that which are less dangerous, more effective, and more morally justified.

    “The legal case for Taiwan sovereignty and independence from China within the international law is much more clear cut…”

    There is no “legal case” or “international law” on issue regarding sovereignty, independence or secession with regards to Taiwan, let alone being “clear cut”. In fact, the laws are clear, both Taiwanese (ROC) and Beijing (PRC) Constitutions – the ultimate laws in the land – state that Taiwan is part of China.

    Furthermore, ALL the 200 countries in the world today recognize there is only ONE China – not a single one recognize “2 China’s”, nor a single one recognize “1 China, 1 Taiwan”. Yes, every single country recognize Taiwan is part of China – so the case is “clear cut” – in the opposite way utu is trying to imply.

    “If the will of the Taiwanese … is to seek the independence “

    Before even to discuss whether the majority of Taiwanese want the independence, all foreign supports and interference should be cut off, all arm sales stopped and all diplomatic recognition of Taiwan withdrawn. ONLY then can we truly have a way of “self-determination” by the Taiwanese/Chinese people.

    But even if it is true – and so far the evidence is not conclusive – that the majority of Taiwanese want independence, it still need to be done legally, and it still need to seek the consent of Beijing and the majority of mainland Chinese. It is the same if California wants independence – it needs to seek permissions from the other 49 states – not only because it is Constitutionally bounded, but also because ALL Americans have (direct, indirect, implied, and other intangible – past, present or future) interests and rights in California too – whether they resides in the states or not, or whether they are aware or not.

    ”… the Taiwanese who in majority do not have close historical links to China…”

    This shows an utter ignorance of Taiwan by a foreigner who lives halfway around the world, brainwashed with typical western media. Taiwanese are majority Han, so they are linked racially to the mainland Chinese. They share close ties with mainland Chinese historically, culturally, genetically, religiously, economically, linguistically, … etc.

    The only thing that Taiwanese and mainland Chinese do not shared is their RECENT political history, i.e. the last 150 years or so. Ironically, the reason, and the ONLY reason that they do not share that recent political history is due to foreign imperial powers’ interference – first by Japan and then by US.

    “Actually it is the US that should give Taiwan guarantees that it will use all its power to protect the independence of Taiwan so Taiwan can proceed.”

    This of course, is extremely dangerous. Beijing has unequivocally stated that it will risk nuclear war to unify Taiwan. Furthermore, Beijing has the supports of almost 100% of her 1.4 billion people and the majority of overseas Chinese on this particular issue.

    “China does not need to have Taiwan “

    This of course, is totally irrelevant, and it is not up to any foreigners to decide in anyway.

    “If Puerto Rico or Hawaii decided to secede I would support any country, including China, that would help them to accomplish it.”

    Word is cheap. Let’s see this ACTUALLY happen with your country first before you talk about others that you don’t understand. If any, we see the utter hypocrisy of how the western world treated Catalonia – when 90% voted to be independence from Spain, their independence movement leaders escaped, sought refuge in other country and finally repatriated and jailed. Little western coverage and sympathy – and definitely none that I see from utu for such “clear cut” case. Another example is the suppression of independence of Western Australia.

    Furthermore, why stop your support at only the two offshore islands of US. Why don’t you support California to secede? What about NY, SF Chinatowns, the Italian towns, Native American reservations, and a few thousands more within US alone?

    “From the point of view of the rest of the world that consists of small countries and small nations neither China nor America are good guys or bad guys. They are powers that small nations and countries have to put up with. “

    The utopian ideal is superficially and morally comforting, but extremely naive, unrealistic and even dangerous. The world hasn’t worked in the way utu wishes for thousands of years, and it won’t for thousands more because it is practically infeasible, politically complicated, racially disastrous and ideologically dangerous. If people take a small intellectual exercise, they would realize that the world could split into thousands or even millions parts of all geographical shapes and sizes. Even if all 7 billions people are impeccably honest and magically subscribe to this ideal religiously, the implications to the military, security, governance, economy, trades, globalism, … etc would be negative of epic proportion. As an example, it took decades just for 200 countries to agree on the laws of the sea. Imagine if you have 10,000. Want to import pork from nearby Italian town – fill in 20 forms to transit through the three Muslim-istans, the two mini-Chinatown republics, and dozens others.

    • Replies: @Malla
  207. @FB

    I 100% bet on the tic for tat if US n EU refuse to certify the Chinese plane. Even though the Chinese are simply reacting, but they have been reacting to every single move so far.

    IMO, it is that cut and dry.

    Remember the French guy federic pieruchi? He is the reason why huawei will never cave. Why China is backing huawei. Why two Canadians met the same fate as huawei CFO. That is 1 tic vs 2 tats from the China side. I am surprised China didn’t tell the Canadian govt to release her or war.

    • Replies: @FB
  208. @AnonCN

    “West won, East is shit, so East will never rise.”

    Why would you attribute that to me? I have the utmost respect for both Chinese and Japanese people. Some of my best professors in college were Asians. I’ve traveled with them extensively, befriended them, studied their arts and combat styles and respect both of them for their great civilizations and abilities.

    Your overzealous, reflexively defensive/aggression is an eyeopener to me. I’ve never seen this side of the Asian personality, but then again, I’m not old enough to have fought in WW2 so I have no experience of how crazy you guys can be. Thanks for lifting the curtain on the darker side of your personality. I’ll remember this.

    All I’m saying is e.g. look at that plane up above in the comments. Doesn’t that look a bit like a Boeing or Airbus? You got it from us. Show some gratitude.

    • Replies: @d dan
    , @karel
    , @AnonCN
  209. Malla says:
    @antibeast

    So the Muslim Bengalis in the British EIC Bengal Army mutinied in the East, later joined by Hindu Marathas. But the Sikhs and Gurkhas couldn’t get along with them because of their differing religions.

    The Bengal Army was not only posted in Bengal but was spread throughout North India. Hindu Maratha kingdoms were dispersed around the territory. Earlier, the Maratha Empire had spread far and wide in India, so there were many maratha kingdoms spread throughout the country. The Maratha Empire was conquered by the EIC but many Maratha princes took British protection and were semi independent.
    The Sikhs did not like the Mutineers, because they hated the Eastern ethnic groups like Biharis and Bengalis who filled the ranks of the Bengal army. During the British Sikh wars, it was the British EIC Bengal Army which conquered the Sikh Empire, both Sikhs and white Brits fought hard with each other, both were ruthless to each other but both ended up respecting each other’s martial skills. But the brown sepoys in the Bengal Army (Bihari, Bengali both Hindus and Muslims) ran away from the huge scary Sikhs. But after the conquest of Punjab (Sikh lands) the newly posted Bengal army sepoy troops were bossing the people around. the Sikhs were like “we did not lose to you pussyboys’, so when the Bihari Bengali sepoys revolted, the Sikhs did not want to help.
    Also the Muslims in the mutineers went to Delhi and used the old Mughal Emperor as figurehead and decalred, they wanted to bring the Mughal Empire back. The Sikhs were like, we do not want those crazy Mughals back.
    Becuz the Mughals had done shit like this to many Sikh holymen/ Gurus

    The Mutiny was practically confined to the Indian troops of the Bengal army ; there was no trouble
    in Madras, and very little in Bombay. The initial successes of the mutineers won for them the support of some prominent individuals with real or imaginary grievances, but none of the important Princes took their side, and there was no movement which could be described as national ; if some of the mutineers restored the Mogul Emperor, others proclaimed a new Peshwa of the Marathas ; and, so far as it is possible to draw any general inference from their conduct,
    their object was to return to the conditions of the eighteenth century by eliminating the Company’s rule. Outside India the movement received no support ; Afghanistan remained friendly, while Gurkha Nepal sent a strong and efficient force to support the British Company in Oudh.

  210. Malla says:
    @antibeast

    This sounds to me more like the British exploited the sectarian conflicts in India using their classic “divide-and-rule” strategy.

    LOL Divide and Rule is some B.S. trope cooked up by Indian nationalists and Marxists, taught to us in history books but a deep study of history makes one realize it is B.S.. There were no need to divide, divisions were already there. The Brits actually United and Ruled India.

    Why didn’t the Bengalis rebel against the British for causing the Bengal Famine of 1770?

    Famines have been taking place from time immemorial. India is very rich agricultural lands, but at times the rainfalls fail and it always led to famine.

    For example, even before the Brits conquered Bengal, during Mughal Emperor Shah Jahan’s reign, we had the appalling famine of 1630-1631. In India a failure of the seasonal rains had always meant famine, in the precise sense of a deficiency of food throughout the area affected. From timee to time the Moslem chroniclers record the horrors of famine in one region or another, but their descriptions are rhetorical rather than precise, and now for the first time we are in a position to check their rhetoric by the observations of Europeans on the spot. The monsoon of 1630 failed almost completely over a tract comprising Gujarat and Ahmadnagar, with portions of Bijapur and Golconda, and before the end of the year the local stock of food was exhausted. Supplies were
    available elsewhere, but it would have been impossible to bring them to the heart of the affected region, because transport animals need food and water along their routes, while the country was bare of grass, and the streams and ponds were dry. The choice before the population thus lay, as the chronicles show it always lay, between flight and starvation. The former alternative was chosen by the more energetic, and the country was largely depopulated ; many of those who remained died of starvation, sometimes evaded by suicide, or postponed by robbery and by cannibalism. The official record of the reign tells us that ‘ men began to devour each other, and the flesh of a son was preferred to his love ’ ; a Dutch merchant, who lived through the calamity, noted that ‘ men lying in the street, not yet dead, were cut up by others, and men fed on living men, so that even in the streets, and still more on road journeys, men ran great danger of being murdered and eaten.’
    No one rose in revolt against Mughal Emperor Shah Jahan either.

    The famine of 1631 does not stand by itself. The sources of information are very incomplete, but we know that famine conditions prevailed with varying intensity in one part of India or another in 1636, in 1643, in 1645, in 1646, in 1648, in 1650, in 1659, and, over an exceptionally wide area, in 1661. The extent and intensity of the calamity of 1631 stand out ; but the record we have given forbids us to think of famine as something outside the ordinary experience of the time. We must regard it rather as a spectre in the background, always visible to peasants, labourers and artisans, and coming forward from time to time to wreck the social and economic life of one region or another.

    An Indian account of what is now the western portion of the United Provinces (where my ancestors come from) , written about the year 1788, tells of the inhuman measures taken to extract money from the peasants in a period of famine by the officers of Maratha King Mahadji Scindhia, who then dominated that region. One of his tax-collectors, we read, ‘ tied rags to the bodies of the rich and poor alike, and, pouring oil on them, set them on fire. . . . Crowded rows of men arc seen streaming from one place to another in search of food. Famine and robbery have enhanced their agony, and a third evil, viz., Mahadji’s tax-collectors, has now been added to the other two.’ In Rajputana (land of warrior Rajputs), again, the Marathas were a terror to Chiefs and peasants alike, and the enmity between these fighting races was destined to be an important factor in the extension of the Company’s territories.
    Wars in between the two ferocious people, the Rajputs and Marathas, both Hindus was very common. Similarly the old, fierce hatred in between the Sikhs and Afghan Pathans/Pastuns. The Sikhs had actually conquered Afghanistan very successfully, which the Soviets and Americans failed to do.

  211. Malla says:
    @d dan

    There is no reason US should contest and stop China. Both countries can live peacefully together. This is a outdated zero-sum mentality of a narrow-minded people.

    Bravo, very true.

    • Thanks: d dan
  212. FB says: • Website
    @Astuteobservor II

    I 100% bet on the tic for tat if US n EU refuse to certify the Chinese plane.

    I very much doubt that the US and EU are going to refuse to certify the C919…in fact you can bet on that…

    Boeing and Airbus both want to keep selling airplanes to China, which is a huge customer…even the engine companies like GE and France’s Safran want to continue to sell to China and make money…those companies and many others comprising the aerospace industry in the west have HUGE political pull…

    This is not mickey mouse chips from Taiwan and Korea that we are talking about…

    China is going to keep buying Boeing and Airbus airplanes also, because it can’t just go from zero to 500 mph in a heartbeat…it’s going to take time to develop and grow its industry and build its first 500 airplanes…eventually it’s going to need five thousand, and in fact much much more than that…

    So the real showdown is going to come much much later, when in fact it will be too late for the US and EU to try to protect Boeing and Airbus…

    China is a canny player…it wants to develop its aviation industry from the ground up, the same as it has developed its military aviation industry, which it is still building…in that instance, it relied upon Russia, at least at first…but once China learned how to make airplanes well enough [but not yet the engines], they bought less and less…a few years ago they only bought 24 Sukhoi Flanker fighters of the latest generation…Su35…even though they need hundreds…

    Before that, they knocked off Flanker copies by the hundreds without a license agreement like India pays for, somewhat irking the Russian industry people [but not really Putin or anyone in government]…

    The Chinese likewise tried for 20 years to reverse engineer the Russian Saturn jet engine for the Flanker…they tried like crazy to buy key components like the digital engine control system, but were refused…at some point they gave up on trying to get technology quickly and simply started to do their homework…their jet engines are now getting better and in a few years we may see them up to snuff…

    So the Russian leadership was patient and lived with the declining sales to China and even the IP intrusions and simply focused on the positive, such as the new aerospace cooperation that is taking shape…

    The west is not likely going to put up with a lot of that…as China’s domestic aircraft production hits its stride and it stops buying Boeing and Airbus, or only in symbolic little dribs and drabs, the west is likely going to start kicking and pulling hair…but at that point it will be too late…

    As mentioned in my previous post, China is working for a divorce from the west…and why not…not long from now they will have a domestic market bigger than the US and EU combined…they don’t need anyone…at some point, when they get technically mature, they won’t even need Russia…

    • Replies: @ThreeCranes
  213. d dan says:
    @ThreeCranes

    “All I’m saying is e.g. look at that plane up above in the comments. Doesn’t that look a bit like a Boeing or Airbus? “

    True. It is so ridiculous that all wheels in the world look circular – those shameless copycats and thefts in China and everywhere …

    ” You got it from us. Show some gratitude.”

    Agree again. But have you shown any gratitude when you use Chinese invented porcelain to hold your food, use Chinese invented paper-money to buy your groceries, use Chinese invented tea to make your breakfast drink, use Chinese invented toothbrush to brush your teeth, use the Chinese invented paper to clean your ass,… ?

    • Agree: FB
  214. Malla says:
    @denk

    I suspect the Chinese must be secretly chuckling at MOdi’s recklessness to escalate from kungfu fighting to firefights.
    ‘You want a shooting war, come on and
    make my day’ !

    Check the video in post 149 of this page, Major General Bakshi of the Indian Army (White moustache guy) says (about 12:34 minutes and later) that India should attack China now as China is stuck up in the East near Taiwan and South China Sea. Now is the time to attack China. He also goes on to say (16:10 minutes) that India does not need America, Japan, Australia (QUAD partners) or even Vietnam and should not depend on them. He says India itself is big and strong enough to crush China. He blames some China watchers and pro-Chinese parties in India is holding back Indian Army to go in and crush enemy China permanently. He seems confident India can do it and then emerge as big power in the World.
    Maybe shooting war is near?

    • Replies: @denk
  215. Malla says:
    @Anon

    There is no future of India except as intellectual and economic vassal of the existing power

    That may be true, but the Indian deep state and the Indian population of a billion plus dream of superpower India. India wants to screw China now but tomorrow it may want to screw the USA too. After China, the USA will be next on its list. Have no mistake about it. Unless ofcourse, we Indians take over the USA from inside, Jewish style. That is more likely to happen. That is happening right now.
    I have been hearing this Superpower India dreams and masturbation from my childhood from everybody. The Indian population is so sold in this at such a deep level that we can never accept a non-Superpower India future.

    • Replies: @Anon
  216. karel says:
    @Sulu

    so what is this nonsense about building more aircraft carriers.? A fantasy scenario or should China get a fright as it learns about this silly plan of yours?

    • Replies: @Sulu
  217. karel says:
    @ThreeCranes

    I will send a letter of gratitude to the CEO of Boeing with a little envelope containing few dollars. More I cannot afford at the moment in the dark days of Corona 19. I am just a little coolie boy and cannot do more to support the nourishing radiation of warm rays emanating from the beacon of light on the hill.

  218. @d dan

    Yes, I do. And I said as much. I’ve long admired Chinese and Japanese civilization.

    You guys are starting to sound like the Japanese right before WW2. You’re talking yourself into a corner. You’re saying “Nobody respects us. The USA is picking on us. We won’t stand for this. We’ll show them. It’s do or die.”

    That’s not a winning hand. Don’t play it. Drop that line immediately. Jews have a monopoly on it anyway. It’s unmanly. We expect that of Jews, who are dominated by their mothers, but you Asians have a great martial tradition and you must uphold that. Don’t let your lesser half lead. It will paint you into a corner. If you’re whining, you’re on the wrong path. Again, don’t be like the Jews. Have some pride, a noble, manly Spirit.

    Be strong. Be grateful. Like I am every time I sip a cup of tea.

    Oh, and by the way, you do know that Josiah Wedgwood discovered the formula through his own research. The Chinese wouldn’t share it with the world, seeking to monopolize on it. Same with tea, the plants of which were stolen from you. You didn’t benevolently share it, you lying scoundrel.

    How can you place the small contributions you made 2000 years ago in the scales over against the magnificent edifice of scientific and technological knowledge you have borrowed and stolen from Europe? You show yourself to be a jingoistic, unlearned and unlettered idiot.

    • Replies: @d dan
  219. @FB

    “As mentioned in my previous post, China is working for a divorce from the west…and why not…not long from now they will have a domestic market bigger than the US and EU combined…they don’t need anyone…at some point, when they get technically mature, they won’t even need Russia…”

    Then they will close their doors–and stagnate. And end up 500 years behind everyone else in the world just like before. Great plan!

  220. FB says: • Website

    I think someone that says ‘why does an airplane look like a Boeing’…is quite hopelessly retarded…

    I guess you’ve never heard of form following function…which is why *all* passenger jets look like cigar tubes with wings…

    And btw, wings were invented by birds…

    • Agree: showmethereal, d dan
    • Replies: @Tim too
  221. Sulu says:
    @karel

    It’s no silly plan of mine. It’s a quite rational plan by the U.S. Navy. The entire idea is to have a stick much bigger than the one your neighbor has and by showing it to him you are reducing the chance that you actually have to use it. But if the day comes that the plan no longer works you still have the advantage of having and using the bigger stick.

    China is no match for the U.S. Navy at this point in time and any one that thinks different is a fool. The Chinese leaders are no fools so they will continue to make their little gambits in the South China Sea but will stop short of real conflict. If by chance some hot headed Chinese officer initiates conflict China will fall all over itself to de-escalate the situation because they know that in a real war they would get destroyed.

    Military power is the result of mastery of technology and I admit that some day the U.S. will not be the predominate World military power. But that is in some far off hypothetical future. For the here and now China won’t piss a drop. They know better.

    Sulu

    • Replies: @showmethereal
    , @denk
  222. Smith says:
    @AnonCN

    Now, this dude talks like an actual chink, you are OK in my book, not a westernized chink like d dan with
    his westernized mouth, or a singaporean chink like showmereal, keep barking all days while trying to
    sound profound.
    I do disagree with you on Maoism and Cultural Revolution, Ho Chi Minh for example did not do the same
    thing Mao did despite learning from the same source i.e. Lenin. Mao remains flawed in so many ways
    compared to Stalin or Ho Chi Minh. If you said China sacrificed all luck for Mao, then I wonder how much
    Vietnam’s luck was sacrificed for Ho Chi Minh.
    About the vagina, aren’t you the same, chink brother? You got fucked by yourselves, jurchen, khitdan,
    mongols, manchu, japs, anglos, now you are still here. Aren’t you also a queen of vaginas, surviving all
    those dicks and claiming they were consensual all along?
    But indeed, I agree with you, you are big country thus you have big problems. My country is small, thus
    small problems. But big or small, if you survive, you can talk shit, that’s all there is to it.
    And no matter what you say about japs or japs say about you, both Japan and China are some of the
    greatest in Asia, and taught Vietnam plenty of things, despite our historical beefs with both. Considering
    we are already talking about dicks and vaginas, maybe your mind isn’t all that different to those psycho hentai
    japs after all, haha.

    • Troll: d dan
    • Replies: @AnonCN
  223. karel says:

    You need clever people as a bigger stick in the hands of idiots will hardly achieve anything sensible. We shall see of what may happens in the next one or two years and I bet that a bigger stick will not prevail.

    • Replies: @Sulu
  224. @d dan

    The ONLY reason Chinese wheels are ROUND is the ridiculous Chinese DID shamelessly copycat and thieve the wheel from Europeans. The Chinese didn’t get the wheel until 1200BC, when Europeans had been using the wheel THEY INVENTED for 2,000 years(likely for longer). When the Chinese first glimpsed the European invented wheel in 1200BC, the Celts had created the innovation of wood wheels with iron tires for increased wear resistance.

    • Replies: @d dan
  225. @Sulu

    Explain concisely why “China is no match for the US Navy”…. I would really love to hear it. Here is the thing that people who understand navies know. China’s navy is built to fight in the East and South China Seas. The US Navy is built to fight out in the wide open Pacific and Atlantic against the Russians. Complete different strategies at place. China also now has longer range missiles than the US – which means the US has to stay further out. The US has the advantage for subs… But again – the US has large nuclear subs for the wide open ocean. China has diesel electric subs for the shallow waters in the area. Japan’s subs are more useful in the area than the US subs.
    So please provide a concise analysis on why those professionals are wrong. Just saying something doesn’t make it reality without backing it up with facts.

    • Replies: @Sulu
    , @lysias
  226. alchemist says:
    @Smith

    I agree with you that in order for a country to claim islands it must show proof of past administration. Vietnam has an abundance of artifacts showing its administration of the Paracels and Spratly dating back to the 18th century during the Nguyen’s dynasty. China in contrast was an inward looking country, closing its border to trade and completely ignored the South China Sea. Indeed China’s maps from WWII backward indicates Hainan Island is the southernmost limit of Chinese territory. All Chinese assertions about sovereignty in the SCS are pure inventions. Both the PRC and Taiwan have no business being in the SCS.

    CCP is not China and lacks legitimacy to rule the Chinese people because it seized power through forces of arms. CCP has been helped by previous US administrations, both Democrat and Republican, in a mistaken belief that CCP can change to a democratic China but the Commies are like leopards that never change their spots. Instead CCP is planning to build a Chinese empire, supplanting the US as world’s premier power. Inorder to break out into the Pacific and Indian Ocean, the CCP wants to seize the SCS by force, presumably to protect its nuclear submarine base at Hainan Island from US scrutiny and because some part of the SCS is deep enough for its nuclear subs to hide in and from there it can fire its JL-3 SLBM missiles at the US.

    • Replies: @lysias
  227. Sulu says:
    @karel

    I don’t think the U.S. is going to get into a real shooting war with China any time in the near future. But just for the sake of argument let’s assume we do have a shooting war that escalates to all out war. What do you think India is going to do? Do you think they are going to sit on their hands while China is engaged with the U.S.? Or do you suppose they will see it as their chance to invade China and then China will be faced with a two front war?

    Sorry, but China is facing more that the U.S. The same way the U.S, is facing more than China. We won’t have a war. Just a bunch of saber rattling and economic sanctions. Basically just a pissing contest to see who blinks first.

    Sulu

    • Replies: @lysias
    , @Bombercommand
  228. …you Asians have a great martial tradition and you must uphold that. Don’t let your lesser half lead. It will paint you into a corner. If you’re whining, you’re on the wrong path. Again, don’t be like the Jews. Have some pride, a noble, manly Spirit.

    I believe Yukio Mishima committed hari kari to make this point.

    I’ve long admired Chinese and Japanese civilization. …

    Be strong. Be grateful. Like I am every time I sip a cup of tea.

    Agree.

    Or as Maximus said, “Strength and honor.”

  229. d dan says:
    @ThreeCranes

    “Yes, I do. And I said as much. I’ve long admired Chinese and Japanese civilization.”

    And what makes you think that most Chinese don’t admire western achievements – ahh, I forget, because you don’t read Chinese.

    “You guys are starting to sound like the Japanese right before WW2.”

    What a coincident. I have the dream last night too that American sounds like Nazi.

    “Oh, and by the way, you do know that Josiah Wedgwood discovered the formula through his own research. The Chinese wouldn’t share it with the world, seeking to monopolize on it. Same with tea, the plants of which were stolen from you. “

    How could that be? I thought white people don’t steal, only Chinese and Japanese do.

    “You didn’t benevolently share it, you lying scoundrel.”

    Are you sure Boeing “benevolently share” its design with China?

    “How can you place the small contributions… “

    Yes, “the small contributions” probably should not deserve your gratitude. You are too generous.

    “You show yourself to be a jingoistic, unlearned and unlettered idiot.”

    True, the Chinese didn’t steal the English letters for their language. They are unlearned in their stealing techniques.

  230. Sulu says:
    @showmethereal

    So please provide a concise analysis on why those professionals are wrong. Just saying something doesn’t make it reality without backing it up with facts.

    Sorry, but I’m not your bloody secretary. I have neither the time nor the inclination to do that much research and then commit it to this blog. But if you want me to point you in the right direction I would think Jane’s Defense Weekly might be a good place to start. It’s common knowledge that China’s Navy is no match for the U.S. Navy.

    You didn’t get your little yellow feelings hurt when I said China is no match for the U.S. Navy, did you?

    Sulu

  231. d dan says:
    @Bombercommand

    “The ONLY reason Chinese wheels are ROUND is the ridiculous Chinese DID shamelessly copycat and thieve the wheel from Europeans. “

    Cheezzzz, you are incredibly knowledgeable. You actually know that Chinese were using squared wheel before they copied the round ones from the Europeans – I thought that was a national secret.

    That is devastating for the entire 5000-year Chinese civilization!

    • Replies: @Bombercommand
  232. Anon[402] • Disclaimer says:
    @Malla

    India like any other country of similar land mass ,history and possibly half the population has the ability to become more powerful in the realms of economy ,stringer in extending political influence ,and mastering scientific achievement than any other country .
    Unfortunately Indian possibly is more than any other nation sensitive to what other countries say about them . Internally ,Indians follow same paradigm in day to day behavior . Indians elevate to divine level and decry human being as being worse than stray dog at the drop of a dime . The society is violent, unequal,dishonest ,and very exclusive . The top echelons in business academia in medicine engineering and also in politics are occupied by the rich families and upper caste .
    India has neglected almost intentionally uplifting of the masses and raising the educational standards
    The focuses on building temples and statutes and penchant for distorting the data on economic growth or law and order situation are revealing of a deeper malaise that almost can be construed as some sort of innate inability to rise to new dynamics and challenges. . It has fossilized attitude ingrained in a fossilized system that unfortunately now constitute its core identity.

    • Replies: @Malla
  233. @antibeast

    Agreed mostly – but the National Security Law doesn’t abandon One Country – Two Systems I don’t believe. The reason why is that the Basic Law of Hong Kong requires it to implement a national security law. The one that Beijing passed doesn’t touch on all the tenets of Article 23 of the Basic Law. So Hong Kong still “has work to do” to finish passing a proper law. What Beijing did was just a stop gap to quell the immediate rioting and subversion. But it’s not fully comprehensive. Which is why the 5 Eyes nations complaints are laughable.

  234. lysias says:
    @Sulu

    Take a look at a map. There are severe terrain and logistical problems standing in the way of an Indian invasion of China.

    In all of history, there has never been such an invasion.

    • Replies: @Sulu
    , @Anonymous
  235. lysias says:
    @alchemist

    All Chinese dynasties have seized power through force of arms. The PRC’s current success means that the CCP now has the Mandate of Heaven.

    • Replies: @alchemist
  236. @d dan

    IT IS DEVASTATING, with 5,000 years on you Chinese hands, you could not invent the wheel, square or round, but you did manage to copy the round one from “Whiteman”. It is impossible to keep the wheel a secret, as wagons travel about and their wheels are clearly visible. Still, “Whiteman” was using the wheel for 2,000 years before the Chinese wised up. The Chinese sure have a lot to feel superior about.

  237. Sulu says:
    @lysias

    In all of history, there has never been such an invasion.

    “If man had been meant to fly he would have been born with wings.”
    Same logic.

    Sulu

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  238. lysias says:
    @showmethereal

    At least for the time being, it may be enough for China to be able to outclass the US Navy in the East and South China Seas.

    • Replies: @Sulu
    , @showmethereal
  239. Sulu says:
    @Half-Jap

    I know a few Naval Officers, U.S. Navy of course, and they do share my view. They wouldn’t be in the military if they didn’t.

    Tell me smart guy. What do you think would happen to China if by chance they managed to sink one of our carriers and killed a few thousand sailors? Do you think the U.S. would sit around with its finger up its ass or do you think China would pay a terrible price for its folly?

    Besides if carriers are obsolete why is China building them?

    Sulu

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Half-Jap
  240. @Sulu

    War between China and India is inevitable for one very good reason: WATER. The major rivers India depends on all flow out of the Himilayan Icecap. China has built dams on the rivers that run into India and is planning a gigantic water diversion project to bring the fresh water of the Himilayas east to Metropolitan China. The Himilayan Icecap is the fastest shrinking icecap on Earth, due to Global Warming. This draw to Eastern China will mean increased water use by China as the supply shrinks. China, in its stupidity and arrogance, will not hesitate to turn off the flow to India. This will be unacceptable to India. However, India will not merely fight in the Himilayas, but will use its very capable Navy to blockade Chinese resource supply from the Gulf and East Africa which runs through the Indian Ocean. Although China can fight very well in the Himilayas, it is and will be powerless to stop the Indian Navy. The United States might assist India by blocking the Westward maritime route from Africa/MidEast to China. China, with its crude, heavy handed, arrogant forgein policy might go completely berserk. I am surprised with all this none too bright talk of China humbling The United States in The South China Sea(not going to happen BTW), no one has considered this much more real threat to world peace. Demand for water is “inelastic” and China has embarked on a very unwise policy of massive water diversion in a time of shrinking water resources in the Himilayas with increased demand, the result will be explosive.

    • Troll: vot tak
    • Replies: @FB
    , @Sulu
    , @Malla
    , @denk
  241. Sulu says:
    @lysias

    China can’t outclass the U.S. Navy anywhere in the world. To think otherwise is sheer fantasy.

    Sulu

  242. anon[306] • Disclaimer says:
    @Malla

    One wonders if Ghandhi was a creation of British as well .In him they found the possibility of prolonging of longevity of Raj .He participated on behalf of British in S African war against the local .He actively advocated for enlistment by poor Indian for British army to fight in WW1.
    He never challenged the sources of revenue -tax system .
    He removed people like Bose, Amdekar, Jinnah and other Bengali intellectuals
    He did not ask for freedom before or after WW1 when public mood was for independence .
    He claimed the fruit of independence when it was about to be delivered by British out of desperation .
    In his world view if not were the British , it should be the upper caste Brahmin class who should define the future of Indian society religion economy and politics .

    Intersting man .

    • Replies: @Malla
  243. Malla says:
    @Malla

    They promised in the comments section that India will never ever let India down to the last blood.

    Sorry it is “They promised in the comments section that India will never ever let Israel down to the last blood’

  244. Anonymous[261] • Disclaimer says:
    @lysias

    A lot of people don’t understand that China is almost impossible to attack from the South and the West.

    It is able to be attacked from the North and the East.

    Simple geographic fact.

  245. FB says: • Website
    @Bombercommand

    Sure…right after the hindoos get indoor plumbing and stop taking dumps on the sidewalk, they’re going to invade China…

    Congratulations…you have just taken the prize for most retarded commenter on UNZ…

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Bombercommand
  246. Anonymous[261] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sulu

    Nothing is eternal, but the very idea of invading via the Himalayas and the Tibetan plateau is nonsensical.

    You may as well postulate that Argentina, instead of India, can attack China via the same route – it is that difficult.

    • Replies: @Sulu
  247. denk says:
    @Malla

    Indian delusion of grandeur is legendary and its exploited to the hilt by Washington.

    It was JFKennedy who gave Nehru the backbone to poke the dragon’s eyes in 1962.

    Today Trump the orange clown continue that fine tradition of sending blacks to kill yellow, plodded MOdi to launch Nehru’s forward policy 2020 edition.

    Needless to say, murikkan ‘experts’ are quick to scream ‘Chinese aggression’, exactly like what they did in 1962.
    To be sure, they didnt forget to egg their IndiaN cousins on either, echoing the Indians own bombast….

    ‘This is not 1962, your have superior aircrafts and tanks and dont forget…you’ve nukes’

    https://www.deccanherald.com/national/chinese-could-lose-in-combat-with-india-in-ladakh-studies-851712.html

    That gem from the Yale Kennedy school of governments has gone viral, sending the Indians into a frenzy.

    ‘Told you so, this isnt 1962, even our murikkan cousins say so, this is our chance to redeem ourself,
    JAI HIND’

    Dont understimate Indian recklessness, They might even resort to a sneaky nuclear first strike if things do not go as planned.

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Malla
  248. Miro23 says:
    @FB

    Instead, what will work is exactly what has worked for China until now…the slow and steady path…build up its own aviation industry, using its own airplanes for domestic needs and partnering with Russia for international support.

    Maybe not so slow and steady – Pompeo doesn’t want any of that.

    If “Necessity is the Mother of Invention” then China has the political will, the engineers/ technologists and the ability to undertake focused national projects. With Russian assistance they could get there a lot faster than expected.
    Also, a combined Russia/China market would be a good start + a collection of non-aligned countries tired of Pompeo/CIA interference and bullying.

  249. denk says:
    @Sulu

    *Much more likely is that it was a not so subtle message to America’s foes*

    Gimme one good reason,honey.
    Why is China your ‘foe‘,
    or for that matter Russia, Iran, Venezuela,..NK….Grenada ?

    Ooops, in Grenada,
    ‘we got there….just in time’
    heheheh

    * If America decides it’s will be too costly to stop Chinese aggression in the region*

    Another stoopid white trash.
    With a track record of 300 naked aggressions since ww2, uncle sham should be hand cuffed at the Hague, instead of strutting around acting like a fucking judge, prosecutor and executor all in one,.

    • Replies: @Sulu
  250. Malla says:
    @Anon

    The society is violent, unequal,dishonest ,and very exclusive . The top echelons in business academia in medicine engineering and also in politics are occupied by the rich families and upper caste .

    This exclusivity and unequality tends to be very strong in most brown countries, it is the natural tendency of especially brown countries. Have you met the elites of brown countries (Indian subcontinent, Middle East etc…), some of the most snobbiest mofos around. But anyways, even the Brits observed these extremely elitist tendencies among Indians.
    Lord Macaulay (who brought English education to India and formed the Indian Penal Code) was of the opinion, that the elites of India would be educated in English in all the latest European science and learning and the elites in return would spread that knowledge into the gigantic masses via local native vernacular languages. LOL with all due respect, abolitionist (slavery) Lord Macaulay was a typical naive Whitey about brownie societies.
    Well how did the Indian elites spread learning and knowledge about? Well Viceroy of India Lord Mayo (Richard Southwell Bourke, 6th Earl of Mayo) will lament and tell us.
    From
    https://openthemagazine.com/essay/did-britain-educate-india/
    After the British Crown took over from the Company, Viceroy Lord Mayo again took up the cudgel for vernacular education in 1868 and attacked the so-called ‘filtration theory’, whereby knowledge would trickle down from the upper classes to the masses.In Bengal,” he lamented, “we are educating in English a few hundred Babus (educated office working Indians) at great expense to the State. Many of them are well able to pay for themselves, and have no other object in learning than to qualify for Government employ. In the meanwhile we have done nothing towards extending knowledge to the millions. The Babus will never do it. The more education you give them, the more they will try to keep it to themselves, and make their increased knowledge a means of tyranny… Let the Babus learn English by all means. But let us try to do something towards teaching the three Rs to Rural Bengal.”

    Lord Mayo sez “The more education you give them, the more they will try to keep it to themselves, and make their increased knowledge a means of tyranny”
    LOL. Who does this remind me of?
    Yup, Al Beruni, the Great Persian philosopher Al-Beruni in his book on India (Tārīkh al-Hind) wrote about us about a 1000 years ago:

    “In the fifth place, there are other causes, the mentioning of which sounds like a satire—peculiarities of their national character, deeply rooted in them, but manifest to everybody. We can only say, folly is an illness for which there is no medicine, and the Hindus believe that there is no country but theirs, no nation like theirs, no kings like theirs, no religion like theirs, no science like theirs. They are haughty, foolishly vain, self-conceited, and stolid. They are by nature niggardly in communicating that which they know, and they take the greatest possible care to withhold it from men of another caste among their own people, still much more, of course from any foreigner. According to their belief, there is no other country on earth but theirs, no other race of man but theirs, and no created beings besides them have any knowledge or science whatsoever. Their haughtiness is such that, if you tell them of any science or scholar in Khurasan and Persis, they will think you to be both an ignoramus and a liar.”

    What the Western educated elites in India did was, instead of playing a part in spreading western knowledge among the masses (there are some exceptional cases), used their education to relentlessly attack the British Raj itself. Bite the hand which educates you. That is why lower caste fire brand leaders like Periyar (or even leaders like Ambedkar) wanted the British and British Raj to stay. They preferred the YT Brits to the local elites.

    • Replies: @Anon
  251. Malla says:
    @FB

    Sure…right after the hindoos get indoor plumbing and stop taking dumps on the sidewalk, they’re going to invade China…

    He is not retarded. Indian Army generals are really talking of invading China. Check out video in post 149 of this page, Major General Bakshi of the Indian Army (White moustache guy) says (about 12:34 minutes and later) that India should attack China now as China is stuck up in the East near Taiwan and South China Sea. Now is the time to attack China. He also goes on to say (16:10 minutes) that India does not need America, Japan, Australia (QUAD partners) or even Vietnam and should not depend on them.
    And he is not the only one, I can post many more such videos of Indian Army personel who are taking about taking the war to the enemy.
    Call these generals retarded if you wish. Indian hypernationalist masses are all calling for invading “enemy of the Bharat Mata (motherland) – China” and crushing the dragon for many “national insults” to India.

  252. denk says:
    @Sulu

    It’s no silly plan of mine. It’s a quite rational plan by the U.S. Navy. The entire idea is to have a stick much bigger than the one your neighbor has and by showing it to him you are reducing the chance that you actually have to use it. But if the day comes that the plan no longer works

    ——–
    Albright…

    What’s the point of having this superb military if you can’t use it?

    “Ledeen Doctrine”…

    “Every ten years or so, the United States needs to pick up some small crappy little country and throw it against the wall, just to show the world we mean business.”

    Poor dear, uncle sham the reluctant sheriff,
    has been forced to defend itself against its legions of foes every each year since its inglorious birth.

    OMFG

    America Has Been at War 93% of the Time – 222 out of 239 Years – Since 1776

    • Replies: @Sulu
  253. Malla says:
    @denk

    It was JFKennedy who gave Nehru the backbone to poke the dragon’s eyes in 1962.

    Today Trump the orange clown continue that fine tradition of sending blacks to kill yellow, plodded MOdi to launch Nehru’s forward policy 2020 edition.

    Don’t write you B.S. Show me how JFK was responsible for Nehru’s forward policy? Show me the proof.
    Actually before the 1962 debacle, JFK and Nehru did not like each other. Nehru was a hardcore socialist and was pro-Soviet and JFK wanted Nehru to speak out against the Soviet invasion and crushing of the Hungarian resistance to Communist rule. Nehru obviously did not do so as he was very pro-Soviet.
    It was only because the Indian Army collapsed from their misadventure, and as the Soviets did not want to go against a fellow Communist country did Nehru have no alternative but to approach America for help. It obviously created extreme humiliation of Nehru, JFK joked that the British held on for a long time against the Germans before American help, India collapsed in such a short time, increasing Nehru’s humiliation.
    America only later agreed to give air support to India but by then the Chinese had already declared a ceasefire and moved back. Some say that, America getting into the war was responsible for this action by the Chinese PLA of moving back. Others explain away this action of Chinese retreat by the fact that PLA supply lines were overextended across the Himalayas and that China had achieved its objectives.
    But Nehru had no American support when the Indian Army moved into Chinese territory, he and JFK did not even get along very well.

    • Replies: @denk
  254. Sulu says:
    @Bombercommand

    You make a well reasoned point considering the possibility of war between China and India.

    Sulu

  255. Sulu says:
    @Anonymous

    I don’t believe I delineated the route India would take.

    Sulu

  256. Malla says:
    @denk

    Needless to say, murikkan ‘experts’ are quick to scream ‘Chinese aggression’, exactly like what they did in 1962.

    Check the American CIA report on the Indo-China war in 1962. It puts all the blame of the war on India and Nehru’s forward policy for the war. The report also notes that Mao was very prudent and tried his best to avoid conflict at first.
    Actually Chairman Mao was confused at first. He could not just understand why India would do something like this. Why would a “Leader of the Third World’, anti-West, Socialist Independent Republic of India attack a Communist “Leader of the Third World” PR China? As well as why would India commit suicide? This was after the Korean War, of course he reasoned that India knows how well the Chinese armed forces fought the Americans and the British in that war. He suspected that the West was pushing India to do this as this was the only explanation. But it was Brahmanical Indian deep state megalomania, nothing to do with any Western push.
    He told his troops at first to move back and avoid conflict. But as the Indian troops moved forward, he instructed the PLA to have a zigzag like deployment and try to counter the Indian Army with as little confrontation as possible.

    Mao actually had a lot of respect for the Indian Army at first because many of the soldiers were left over of the Royal British Indian Army who fought Imperial Japan. British India was of great help to the Chinese war effort against the Japanese Empire, there were Chinese troops being trained in British India, the Chinese were supplied from British India via Burma/Myanmar.

    However I might add, any Indian nationalists and revolutionary freedom fighters were pro-Japanese because according to them, the Japs were fellow Asians who were an enemy of the ruling British Empire. There were a lot of propaganda posters spread during WW2 by the Indian National Army allied to the Japanese.

    Little pussyboy Chinese, American (FDR), British (Churchill) and French slime-balls are begging/forcing the brave macho Indian man to enter the war on their side.

    • Replies: @FB
    , @denk
  257. Malla says:
    @Bombercommand

    War between China and India is inevitable for one very good reason: WATER. The major rivers India depends on all flow out of the Himilayan Icecap. China has built dams on the rivers that run into India and is planning a gigantic water diversion project to bring the fresh water of the Himilayas east to Metropolitan China.

    Very good point, I am surprised, no one raised this issue before. But India is trying to do the same to Pakistan as the source of the Indus is in Indian control. India is planning to use water as a weapon against Pakistan and the Indus is the main river of Pakistan. Indeed today’s Pakistan is more or less, just a territory around the Indus. Basically Pakistan is the ancient Indus valley civilization in geographical spread, more or less. What is ironic is the term ‘India’ comes from that Indus river while that river today is the life blood of the sworn enemy of INDIA, Pakistan.
    And you are absolutely right, China’s damming of the rivers in Tibet is a big issue for India and often spoken about in the Indian media

    China, in its stupidity and arrogance, will not hesitate to turn off the flow to India.

    You could also say that India too, in its stupidity and arrogance, will not hesitate to turn off the flow to Pakistan as well. And nuclear powered Pakistan will have no option but to go to war.
    Very interesting is that, in many ways, China is to India what India is to Pakistan. Or the other way round, Pakistan is to India what India is to China.

    but will use its very capable Navy to blockade Chinese resource supply from the Gulf and East Africa which runs through the Indian Ocean.

    That is what one of the strategies the Indian deep state is banking on. And yes it will get possible help from the USA and maybe even Australia. What is the QUAD of USA, Japan, Australia and India all about? The four nations have regular naval exercises to the anger of China. Some in India want the Vietnamese Navy to join in as well. Blockade in the Indian Ocean is what China is really scared of. But China has a masterstroke to reduce some of those concerns, CPEC, the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor. A mini BRI with roads and infrastructure built in Pakistan. Via this scheme, PR China gets access to the extremely important Gwadar Port in Balochistan, Pakistan, which is very close to the oil rich Gulf countries. Oil and goods could be sourced from that port all the way to Kashghar inside China as well as exports sent out. That way it can at least partially by pass the Indian Navy in the Indian Ocean as well as the risk of a possible Straits of Malacca blockade. And the Pakistani Navy could play watchman and keep the Indian Navy at bay from that coast at least. China is also developing a port in Sri Lanka and bringing its presence there. China is also getting involved in projects in the Maldives, Nepal and Bangladesh much to the anger of the Indian deep State as it considers South Asia outside Pakistan as its own backyard. And recently even Iran has kicked out India out of the Iranian Chabahar port project, near the much larger Gwadar port of Pakistan. India was planning to create its own version of the Silk road to counter China, the Iranian port would have created a trade route reaching Central Asia and all the way to Moscow and even Europe for India. Pakistan kind of blocks passage for India into Central Asia. But because of lack of funds in India, Indian laziness and all talk and no bark (unlike China) and fears of US sanctions meant the project never really took off. But now Iran after unceremoniously kicking Surrender Modi’s India off, is going with China and now that port though smaller is much closer to the oil rich Gulf than even Gwadar and the Iranian infrastructure system could be integrated with the Pakistani system, and be connected with Afghanistan and Central Asia and finally to China. Both the Iranian and the Pakistani Navy could protect that entire coastline from the Indian Navy now. India in its desire to isolate Pakistan has itself got isolated from the rest of the Eurasian heartland. Iran is also going to provide cheap oil to China for 25 years, maybe using Yuans and bypassing the Dollar system. So even if the USA & India tries to use their navies to block Chinese energy supplies, China will have supplies from Russia, Iran and many Central Asian countries and the US and Indian navies would be totally hapless to do anything about it except maybe sabotage. Also the Americans are moving out of Afghanistan and the Taliban are gonna be major power players now. India has invested billions, even financed & built the Afghan Parliament. All that seems lost. Surrender Modi screwed everything up.
    This is one of the reasons that India opposes CPEC so much. Not only because it passes through Indian claimed territory (Indian claimed Kashmir/Ladakh), India senses that if CPEC succeeds, its trump card of a Indian ocean blockade of Chinese maritime trading using the Indian Navy is defeated. That is also one of the reason, why India was/is/will keep on funding Baloch separatist movements in Pakistan as the Gwadar port is in Baluchistan where there is a separatist movement going on for a long time, Pakistan having crushed their independence struggle several times in the past.
    Also the recent Galwan clash in between India and China was very close to a road which was the only supply line to an Indian Military forward base in Ladakh region of India, which has the potential to attack the CPEC road lines.

    I think one of the many reasons for Chinese sensitivity and assertiveness about the South China Sea is not only based on historic claims but to also to maybe have a presence as close as possible to the Malacca Straits, where it can militarily respond in some way to the threat of a blockade by the US Navy supported by the Indian Navy or maybe even the Australian Navy.

    • Thanks: Showmethereal
    • Replies: @Bombercommand
  258. alchemist says:
    @lysias

    Who gives CCP the mandate of heaven? China is known to invade and subjugate its weaker neighbors. Xinjiang was an independent country until Emperor Kangxi of the Qing invaded and incorporated Xinjiang into his empire. The Uighurs are now being subjected to incarceration, their women sterilized by force. If this crime against humanity continues at this rate, the Uighurs race is bound to disappear. The CCP has a program of encouraging Han Chinese to move in en masse, turning Uighurs into a minority in their own land and seize their land for good. The same thing is happening to Tibet. However some warrior nations like Burma have succeeded in keeping China out. Around 1768, the Qing under emperor Qianlong invaded Burma four times but were defeated. Vietnamese too are a warrior race and in 1789 have dealt a 290,000 Qing invading army a crushing defeat, inflicting 150,000 casualties in five days of fighting. Chinese bodies were stacked up forming a hill named Dong Da near Hanoi.

    The common characteristics in every successful Chinese invasion is the attempt at assimilation of the conquered nations by destroying their culture, their history and nationhood. The lesson to all countries is in order to safeguard national independence and deter aggression is to build up military capability. There is the jungle out there. It’s survival of the fittest.

    • Troll: FB
    • Replies: @Malla
  259. AnonCN says:
    @ThreeCranes

    You are super hypocritical and you speak of very conflicting things here with no shame.
    In # 155, you tell the Oriental world to show respect to the benefactors. In your eyes, west is the benefactors of the east because west make some science and technology to human being in recent 400 years, of cause you add it up with benevolent, civilizing, LMAO. With the high attitude, you already ignored the value of any east contributions and you forget all the west destroys and hazards to human being.

    But when I reply you to remind your arrogant ass that general equality among all human being is something to be really remembered, you magically find the darker side of my personality and you will remember this!
    And you write all the shit with your upmost respect for both Japanese and Chinese. LOL.
    How arrogant, how fake, how hypocritical. Typical!
    Asia personality surprise you? Huh? West personality don’t surprise Asia anymore.
    You should be surprised because your arrogant ass never try to understand other people. Yet others have to put up with you, try to ignore your arrogance and continuously try to be nice, be polite. Haven’t we show you enough respect?
    You just have no idea what does respect mean, do you?

  260. anon[289] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sulu

    if carriers are obsolete why is China building them?

    Probably because China’s defense contractors are corrupt and thus are happy to make profits by selling impractical weapons to stupid, corrupt bureaucrats.

    But don’t bother, mate, you’re debating the wu mao crowd. They get paid five dimes per comment.

    • LOL: Sulu
  261. @FB

    Fart Blossom, you have the reading comprehension of a moron. Please block quote where I wrote that India will invade China. What I wrote is there will be war, started by China denying India water from the Himilayan Icecap, and India will use its strength, its Navy, to inflict a maritime blockade on China in the Indian Ocean, cutting off Chinese resource supply from The Persian Gulf and East Africa. All the land war advantage is enjoyed by China as long as the fight is in the Himilayas, but the sea war advantage is India’s and that will be devastating to China. What will China do, try to send a Naval Task Force into the Indian Ocean? Good luck now, good luck in 2030. India will use its strength, not its weakness in a conflict with China. China has made a blockheaded strategic blunder: trying to place itself as a world power while being totally dependant on a vast flow of raw materials over the oceans without first becoming the dominant Naval power over the World Ocean. Both Germany and Japan made that blunder, but China is in a worse position than either.

    • Troll: vot tak
  262. AnonCN says:
    @Smith

    Hi Monkey, do always try to seize the key point when other people are saying things so that you can really make a point.
    Forget those Chinese jurchen, Chinese khitdan, Chinese mongols, Chinese Manchu, and those Chinese land and Chinese history of love and hate, OK?
    As for the others you mentioned… things are not really finished yet. Don’t you know that for big countries, things don’t finish really fast because things are not that clean and clear as I told you? Sometime you have to try get out of the small county mindset to really understand others. And it matters to try understand each other.
    Since monkey is so obsessed with chinks, chink would kindly tell more to help the noughty and studious monkey: get out the east shyness and guiltiness when people talking about sex, vagina, penis as long as it helps to make clear the point especially when people talking in other people’ s language. Don’t easily go trivial for big topics which only comfort you to distract you before you really make clear about the main subject. And try to learn the differences of pervert and normal folk, so that if monkey evolves, it doesn’t grow to be nasty.
    Monkey see, monkey learn, keep trying. The obsession do help the most hopeful monkey to learn and evolve faster than others in this messy jungle.
    PS, for your Ho Chi Minh subject, not really interested in him, don’t really know much about him, so don’t open my mouth to make any comment about him.
    PS, don’t get offended, monkey. You do parroting after the west narrative with the word chinks. Why don’t you go back to your original healthy mindset and keep in mind that you already won! Stick to that result and stop the hate.
    Maybe I am wrong, it’s not finished for you guys either. OK then. As long as the existence, nothing is really finished, I got you.

    • LOL: FB
    • Replies: @Smith
  263. AnonCN says:
    @antibeast

    You are very obsessed with Confucianism, aren’t you?

    What I see China can offer: a value shift from small singular to plural. Not from 1 to 2, but from singular to plural. China offers this value based on strong believe in equality and fairness to all human being. It has something to do with both the antique Confucianism and not so old communism, but also many other things are related. Talk about continuity and consistency.
    Ever since the day people find that earth is round, that industry & modernity matters to human society, it’s a world of value for small singular.
    Well, now there comes the value of plural, and the value that everyone should get involved to define and shape the value for the future. It takes time and endeavor, but finally everyone will be relevant.

    No conflicting that Chinese are nationalist and at the same time advocating to build the so called ‘a community with a shared future for mankind’ with some sincerity. Just the same thing as some people has realized and accepted the fact that we do live in world of reality and still remains some believes in pursuing for a bigger dream. Call it confidence and ability.
    Respect the value of plural, rather than the value of smaller singular, is the way we have to take to go back to the value of some bigger singular (community with a shared future for mankind). This is also the way to fight the so called evil one world government.

    Anyway, it will be a world of more complications and more appreciations. Call it plural.

    • Thanks: FB
    • Replies: @antibeast
  264. lysias says:

    There are books about the Sino-Indian border war of 1962 and the difficulties India had in supplying its troops. I suggest you read them.

  265. FB says: • Website
    @Malla

    That cartoon is absolutely correct…Britain used one million Indian soldiers even in World War One, to fight in the European, Mediterranean and Middle East theaters, which had nothing to do with India…

    Now the same imperialists want to push India into fighting their war against China for them…and India is quite stupid to allow itself to be used as a proxy for the same imperialists that abused the country for hundreds of years…

    No lessons learned, unlike the Chinese, who constantly remind themselves of their humiliation in the one hundred years of weakness…

    India doesn’t have any major beef with China, except for that small northern territory…those kinds of things need to be solved by diplomacy, not starting a hotheaded war that can spiral out of control into a very big conflagration…

    India is a complete disappointment…I remember thinking 20 years ago that India would join the axis of anti-imperialist resistance, along with Russia and China [and today also Iran] and there is no reason that such a massive alliance against the globalist, homosexual, capitalist empire should not come together…

    No reason except India’s complete diplomatic immaturity and cultural toxicity…China isn’t blameless either of course, being unable or unwilling to smooth over the one big issue with India which is China’s support for Pakistan…

    The Hindu hatred for the Pakistani Muslims is surreal…in fact not reciprocated by the Pakis to such an extent at all, who are in fact among the more admirable Muslim nations…

    And let’s not forget how India was artificially split into two pieces to begin with…by the British colonialists, as their final act of indignity to the Indian people…now the same India would gladly let themselves be used by the same scumbags seeking to maintain what is the successor to the British Empire…

    I remember India from the non-aligned days, with the big Troika of Nehru, Nasser, and Tito…also Sukarno of Indonesia, who was quickly knocked off by the fascist US empire who were seeing their dream of world domination slipping away, with even European countries like France and Italy about to freely elect socialist governments…

    What a much different world it could have been…what FDR and Stalin were actually planning for the postwar order that would see colonialist exploitation and backwardness defeated by modernity and opportunity for all…before the fascist silent coup that brought in Truman as the first puppet of the fascist deep state…

    Today the world has another chance to throw off the shackles of capitalist bondage…people are sick of being used…but not India’s political elite apparently…

    How does this possibly make sense…if there is a way to explain this, I would love to hear it…

    • Replies: @Malla
  266. @Malla

    I had never considered that India controlled the high mountain source of the Indus River, many thanks. This new fact makes my thesis trebly dangerous: three nuclear armed countries, each with the capability to threaten or be threatened on that most “inelastic”, critical resource: fresh, potable WATER. The dynamics are hairaising: Pakistan without Indus water is literally dead, and Pakistan has dangerously entwined itself with China. China is intent on denying India Himilayan water while becoming dependant on that same, SHRINKING, supply. India is the most threatened by the water issue but has tremendous leverage to strangle China’s resource supply and will have the moral high ground as water is an “existential” resource and China’s behavior will be seen as deeply repugnant by all nations(but that won’t stop the hamfisted Chinese). Where I disagree is that the Chinese economic/military corridor through Pakistan will give it any decisive advantage in a conflict with India. India can tell Pakistan “Assist China and India will turn off the tap on the Indus”. Even without this threat Gwadar port is totally vulnerable to the Indian Navy, and therefore useless to China. The Indian Navy will brush aside the Pakistani Navy, like the last time they fought, only much worse. I don’t see the (tiny and useless)Iranian Navy teaming up with the Pakistani Navy in the best of scenarios and The United States Navy would sink it if it tried. China’s vulnerability in the Indian Ocean is immense and unsolvable. For example there is the Myanmar LNG port, easily interdicted by the Indian Navy. Iranian petroleum and gas must go by sea through the Indian Ocean, a China-Iran pipeline MIGHT solve that, partially, but it must be up and running by 2030 to be helpful. The resource flow out of Africa can be stopped by India at will. With the maritime blockade India has many options to pressure China. The blockade might not need to be total, a selective blockade starting with the African resources could be tried. The problem is that China is absolutely intent on funneling Himilayan water to Metropolitan China and have the resources to make that mega project happen. Once Eastern China is hooked up with that ultra high quality water resource, China can never back down, and yet I see no realistic scenario where the Chinese Navy can assert itself in the Indian Ocean. Three nutcase, nuclear armed nations all fighting over a shrinking potable water supply….totally depressing, like out of a dystopian novel. All the variables, aggravated by Global Warming, are speeding towards a critical situation in 2030. It is this Global Warming caused shrinking of the Himilayan Icecap that makes an already dangerous situation explosive.

    • Agree: Malla
    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Malla
    , @denk
    , @Showmethereal
  267. Steven80 says:
    @JohnPlywood

    I work in finance. I am sure some of your assumptions are wrong:

    If you check the latest availavble annual Huawei report, you’ll easily discover that the vast majority of their revenue does not depend on chips: https://www-file.huawei.com/-/media/corporate/pdf/annual-report/annual_report_2019_en.pdf?la=en Major items are underawter cables, mobile operators infrastructure, broadband, optical networks, private lines for banks etc.

    Regarding sanctions – there are so many, many ways to circumvent sanctions by a state or in fact any willing company. The whole thing that tarde can be stopped is a balooney. Want to know some of them?

    – Banks: China uses Kunlun bank for petrol trade with Iran. The bank immune to sanctions because has no transactions with foreign companies. But it trades actively with other chinese banks – what can stop transfers from a chinese company’s private accounts there and in a larger bank trading with world relations? Nothing. Petrol flows.

    – Individuals: US sanctions individuals and companies all over the world if they dont report revenues/accounts, and does so by threatening the banks in those countries (they need to have access to dollar trade). So, many US citizens just go to a bank branch in a far away land where in the branch they are willing to open account with temporary documents or local documents -such as residence permits, local driver licence, temporary travel documents obtained from an embassy etc. and then the bank will simply not report US passport number/citizenship and the account is invisible.

    – Companies: many corporations create so called “complex” structure, which is not complex at all, this is an euphemism used by lawyers to extort money from executives. The structure is create company within a company within a company, in weird places, and there are countless legal offices that will hide company onwers really well. And I mean well – own servers, not located in the US or UK, etc. The reason those will stay immune are various – from laundering politicians money to having to physically visit Liberia for example to get company records.

    Many other, among them really complex, methods come to mind, but rest assured, sanctions do not work the way media shows. It will disrupt a large company such as Huawei because it transacts with everyone, but eventually a structure will be created that will be invisible and immune to any US interventons. The guys in the East are learning that fast, and the US will soon lose another strategic weapon.

    • Agree: Showmethereal
  268. Malla says:
    @FB

    right after the hindoos get indoor plumbing and stop taking dumps on the sidewalk

    ooooh, you care about us smelly Indians so much? By writing insulting shit like that? Ya rite!!! Gimme a break. BTW it is ‘Hindu’ no ‘Hindoo’.
    And you are appealing to my Indian nationalism telling me evul Brutish did dis? evul Brutish did dat? Ya rite, gimme a break. LOL.

    Now the same imperialists want to push India into fighting their war against China for them…and India is quite stupid to allow itself to be used as a proxy for the same imperialists that abused the country for hundreds of years…

    If you believe this BS that Indian nationalist hatred towards China is because of Western Imperialists, you are out of touch with ground realities in India. Indeed there are many Indians who are both anti-West and anti-China and yes that is possible and did happen. Before the 1990s, most Indians were pro-Soviet, anti West AND anti-China. Our enemy Pakistan was anti-Soviet, pro USA and pro China. To millions of Indians, China is an Imperialist type country.
    For example Indian PM Indira Gandhi, daughter of Nehru was ANTI WEST AND ANTI CHINA and EXTREMELY PRO SOVIET.
    This idiotic “India is US vassal” bullshit is being pushed by the Chinese deep state and population because it cannot believe that a country of 1 billion poor brown people hates their “Socialist Revolutionary” China, in India, where hating “Chinese Imperialists” is being Nationalist and “true son of the soil” (this is a type of buffoonery). Since being anti-West automatically puts one in the “cool”, “revolutionary” and “morally superior” category (this is utter buffoonery too), so push India into the “Western Imperialist” camp and be cool again. LOL. Please tell me this is only propaganda. And please tell me they do not believe their own propaganda and B.S. The truth is India is a bully and bullies all its neighbours. It tried bullying China, tried biting more it could chew and got burned. Nothing to do with the West.
    Also the truth is Indian Nationalism is anti-Chinese. Capice. And the teeming billion Indian masses are anti-Chinese. Being pro Chinese in India today means you are automatically labelled a “traitor to your motherland”. This too is a kind of buffoonery. But we have more.
    India plays the same stupid game. India cannot explain why our little Hindu friend Nepal and the Nepalese hate India. Because we Indians believe we are “the most peaceful people on the planet of the World, nation of Gandhi and spirituality”. LOL. Totally ignored is that India has been bullying Nepal from day one, the same India which cries and was crying about “evul British Imperialism” all the time, constantly tries to interfere in Nepal’s internal affairs, created a blockade some years back targeting landlocked Nepal to force sovereign Nepal to write their constitution the Indian Govt way, the landlock causing enormous hardship to millions of Nepalese, repeatedly tries regime change to get a compliant Nepalese Govt to suit Indian interests. No wonder Nepal is looking to China to counter India. But just like the Chinese, how can India the “leader of the Third World”, “fighter against evul Brutish (& now Chinese) colonialism” explain why the Nepalese hate India? How can anybody hate us “peaceful son of the soil” Indians? LOL How to rationalize it away? Why using the same technique China uses but with a different twist. “Nepal is a tool of Chinese CCP imperialism, it is not Nepal which is causing problems for India, China is using Nepal as a tool against India, The Nepalese PM Oli was honey trapped by the female slut Chinese Chicom ambassador and is forced to be anti-Indian (an Indian Army officer actually said that in a video)” All B.S., the truth is that the Nepalese people are sick and tired of Indian Imperialism and want to be close to China and as a soveign nation they have the right to be. But since in India, being anti-Chinese is being nationalist, “revolutionary” and “cool”, like how being anti-West is cool in some places (even in India), they use this garbage. All buffoonery. We humans are Homo-bafoonous.

    Secondly, the Indian deep State as well as people are convinced that China wants to keep India down to come up as a rival in Asia. I personally do not believe this is true.
    But anyways, this hatred for China is old.
    For example in 1967 Indian diplomats were insulted and kicked out of China. Chinese mobs attacked our diplomats, our diplomats was even beaten by Red Guards. Listen from the mouth of our diplomat himself.

    Following a growth in animosity between India and China, the Indian diplomat, Krishnan Raghunath , who was expelled from Beijing holds a press conference regarding the present situation. Raghunath was beaten up by Red Guards at Beijing Airport.
    Who beats up a Diplomat? And you think Indians are gonna be all lovey dovey after all this?

    No shit, Indian masses will not take such insults to our nation. Anger among the people of New Delhi peaked who promptly attacked the Chinese embassy. The Indian masses stormed in, stoned the embassy and destroyed the Communist Chinese flag in revenge. They put Mao’s label around donkeys.

    INDIAN MOBS STORM CHINESE EMBASSY AND BURN CHINESE FLAG

    Earlier in 1965 when China (rightly or wrongly) blamed India for stealing some sheep and yaks on the border with in Tibet, nationalist firebrand popular Indian leader, Atal Bihari Vajpayee (who became PM later) drove 800 sheep into the Chinese embassy.
    https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/india-china-border-dispute-when-atal-bihari-vajpayee-drove-800-sheep-to-chinese-embassy-1692797-2020-06-26

    India doesn’t have any major beef with China, except for that small northern territory…those kinds of things need to be solved by diplomacy, not starting a hotheaded war that can spiral out of control into a very big conflagration…

    The Indian people have massive beef with China. For the Indian people, China is an aggressor. This is partly because the Indian deep State lied about the 1962 war to the Indian people when India invaded China and lost. So to save face, it lied to the people. Along with that the Indian media is supremely anti-China. The Chinese deep State is actually befuddled about the anti-China Indian media. I am too some times.

    But you are right, this has to be solved by diplomacy not war and I am with China on this one. It is the Chinese who have been sensible in this.

    India is a complete disappointment…I remember thinking 20 years ago that India would join the axis of anti-imperialist resistance, along with Russia and China [and today also Iran] and there is no reason that such a massive alliance against the globalist, homosexual, capitalist empire should not come together…

    Really? during the 80s, Pakistan had a good relationship with both the USA and China. Pakistan played its part in getting Nixon and the Chinese leadership together and that did not disappoint you? The Sino Soviet split did not disappoint you? When President Nixon and slimeball Kissinger toasted wine with Chairman Mao, you were not disappointed? Only India does? And you think India will give up her national interests and rights for your dream team?
    When Mao was toasting with Nixon, we remained the USSR’s staunchest ally. India has no beef with Russia. Russia is very popular with Indians and India wants to maintain good relationship with Russia even if it takes a US tilt. Becoming harder since the Ukraine maiden “revolution”. Indeed many older generation Indians still consider the USSR was our “benevolent Big brother” and have similar emotions towards today’s Russia. These same old generation Indians are anti West AND anti-China.
    Remember in the past, Pakistan was in the US camp (and Chinese camp), helped the USA in Afghanistan against Soviet forces. Many Pakistanis chest thump that they brought down a superpower (USSR). LOL. If the Soviet army would be in their doorstep the Pakistani Army would all be peeing and fleeing all around. LOL.
    Fear of China is pushing India more towards the USA anyways and also upper caste Hindus and Jews in the USA are building a kind of anti-Islamic alliance. Also there is a group in Russia (whose literature I read very seriously) who are really disappointed with India, those with an Eurasianist (vs Atlanticist USA) point of view. You know Dugin and stuff.

    The Hindu hatred for the Pakistani Muslims is surreal…in fact not reciprocated by the Pakis to such an extent at all, who are in fact among the more admirable Muslim nations…

    Both Pakistanis and Indians hate each other but I think you are right about the hatred from the Indian side being surreal. There is the weight of a 1000 years of Hindu Muslim conflict in the subcontinent after all.

    And let’s not forget how India was artificially split into two pieces to begin with…by the British colonialists, as their final act of indignity to the Indian people

    The splitting up of India into two was a result of the Muslim League and the Indian National Congress not being able to come to a settlement. The Brits wanted a united India, can be easily proven by the writings of Dr. Babasaheb Ambedkar (leader of the lower castes and architect of the Indian constitution) and British Parliament discussions on this topic. Actually many Chinese commentators here do not even believe that India should be an united country and that we are a British creation. There is this suspicion among Indians that China wishes to break our country apart to get rid of a rival. How is that gonna sound to Indian nationalists? Such people (Westernised liberals who are pro China or speak for Kashmiris etc…) are called the Tukde Tukde gang. Tukde Tukde —> piece piece, traitors who want to break up the motherland into pieces.

    Today the world has another chance to throw off the shackles of capitalist bondage…people are sick of being used…but not India’s political elite apparently…

    What???? Destroy Capitalist exploitation with China and Russia who are full of giant capitalist corporations like Lukoil, Tencent Holdings Ltd, Tatneft and Alibaba Group Holding Limited? What???? How is Britain with its socialist NHS healthcare not in your dream gang then? Our Govt owned Indian Railways is the biggest employer in the World, how are we not included then?

    What a much different world it could have been…what FDR and Stalin were actually planning for

    Stalin was not that much interested in interfering in Third World movements at least after WW2. He was very pragmatic. It was Khrushchev who got the USSR involved in Third World affairs. As far as FDR, the same FDR would not invite Jesse Owens into the White House because he was black, the same FDR would not help Churchill when Churchill begged him for shipping resources to alleviate the Bengal famine. Ya right!!!

    Anyways see, I personally do not think China wants to keep India down and all that B.S. and I want good relations in between both the countries. India is not even that important to China, as we think we are. I have written somewhere that India is China’s Pakistan, i.e.–> What Pakistan is to India, India is to China. I personally even want India to give up Arunachal Pradesh/ South Tibet to China and solve the whole issue. Arunachal Pradesh/ South Tibet leaving India will not destroy India. But such a position would be considered ‘anti-nationalist’ and ‘traitorous to the motherland’ in India right now. And I do not trust the US deep state (nothing against American people though).
    But the reality on the ground is that after the recent clash in Galwan, I think the Indian nation will now be forever consider China its enemy. If the clash was secretly (I will not be surprised if that was the case) initiated by the Indian deep State, they have been successful in radicalizing the Indian population which already looked at China as a enemy. And let me make this clear, the people who are calling for peace & friendship with China are the Westernised elites (not the entire lot but all pro Chinese are Westernised educated folks), the anti-China folk are mostly the ultra nationalists found a lot among the lower classes.
    The poster denk is right, being close to India is China’s misfortune.

    • Replies: @FB
  269. Tim too says:
    @FB

    “…form following function” Particularly true for aircraft. One look at an aircraft tells what it’s function is, what type.

    And wings? Insects predate birds? Flying fish?

  270. @lysias

    It doesn’t need much more. Only those who want to be global police or global imperialists need a navy on the “7 Seas”. Of course they will concentrate on the Indian ocean since they have lots of joint port projects with Pakistan – Myanmar – Sri Lanka – and now possibly Iran (taking over the dormant project India was supposed to handle) and supply Bangladesh’s navy with ships. India doesn’t like it – so the US is giving India weapons. The irony is they have those ports there to bypass any attempt of the US to blockade the Malacca Straits – or war.

  271. Malla says:
    @Bombercommand

    three nuclear armed countries, each with the capability to threaten or be threatened on that most “inelastic”, critical resource: fresh, potable WATER. The dynamics are hairaising: Pakistan without Indus water is literally dead, and Pakistan has dangerously entwined itself with China. China is intent on denying India Himilayan water while becoming dependant on that same, SHRINKING, supply.

    Yeah I know, this is crazy. Someday this will blow. Water is something that nations may go to war in the future as human populations grow. Water is more important than oil, we cannot drink oil.

    Three nutcase, nuclear armed nations all fighting over a shrinking potable water supply….totally depressing,

    What is more, all the three nations are turning more and more hypernationalist.

  272. @Sulu

    Long story short – you don’t have much clue what you are talking about. The Chinese navy doesn’t need to match ship for ship with the full strength of the US navy. You are bringing up Janes – but the people who run that site would tell you that too. Typical cowboy mentality.

    I didn’t ask you to be a secretary. I asked for a concise argument. You don’t have one. Run along..

    • Replies: @Sulu
  273. Malla says:
    @alchemist

    China is known to invade and subjugate its weaker neighbors.

    Most of these invading and subjugating were done by the Manchus and Mongols not the Han. Unless the Chinese of today are trying to be Manchu Qing part 2.

    Just like the Brahmanical Indian elites of today want to be British Raj part 2, they dream of Akand Bharat, Greater India, which is basically British India. Some Akhand Bharat map includes territory all the way to Indonesia!!!! So British Raj+Dutch Empire.
    “The British Raj was glorious” sez our Indian elites “but it should have been ruled by us superior Hindus who had civilization from 10000000 BC (when all the non Hindus were monkey barbarians) not those lowly mlaccha Barbarian White monkey British.” They want the British Raj without the British.

  274. @FB

    You bring up a very good point about chips. Most military applications don’t rely on the smallest chips. Further proof that the whole issue is economic gangster-ism. The “national security” is the US not controlling any consumer industry. And with Russia graduating so many STEM students – especially considering they are 1/3 the pop of the US – it is no wonder they don’t want to see China and Russia collaborating.

    • Replies: @Malla
  275. Malla says:
    @Bombercommand

    You also forget another factor in this shitshow.
    China may want her Qing era territory back. China may want the South China Sea and those Japanese islands. China may want Arunachal Pradesh/South Tibet now in Indian hands.
    The Hindutva Indian deep state in the loooong term MAY want this.

    Reuniting the mother land, called Akhand Bharat or Undivided India. Every Indian Patriot’s Dream. The final goal of Hindutva India, India the superpower with that map.
    Yup, includes all of nuclear Armed Pakistan and Tibet of nuclear Armed China.
    We humans truly are Homo-Buffoonous.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  276. Parbes says:

    OT good news: Brent Scowcroft, one of the top U.S. Cold War scumbags, who had a finger in the pie in nearly everything from the Korean War up to the Obama administration’s foreign aggressions, has croaked at the age of 95 (unfortunately). Good riddance; and may his name forever be blackened and rest in infamy!

  277. @Alfa158

    I notice that no one seems to be noticing the fact that people who have had the covid-19 virus, even the “symptomless” ones, all seem to be left with damaged organs. China has avoided most of its population being infected, has developed an antibody treatment and looks set fair to produce a vaccine or five sometime soon. The US by contrast, looks to be set fair for having a population which symptomed or symptomless, has mostly been damaged by the virus. They are pushing 4,750,000 and registering another 50,000 a day but these are the cases with symptoms, how many symptomless cases who are not being tested, are there?!

    The other factor that seems to be left out of this discussion is the endemic corruption of the US industrial and political scene. This must surely be a terrible drag on anyone’s plans to do anything, let alone carry through to a triumphant conclusion, a project as ambitious as “Containing China”!

  278. denk says:
    @Bombercommand

    India, the USA of South Asia , claiming any moral high ground, thats too funny !

    Attack on China
    1959, 1962, 2017, 2020
    [these are just the biggies]

    Annexation of the seven mongoloid kingdoms in 1947, thru a series of genocidal wars.

    Annexation of Sikkim
    1975

    Training and harBoring Tamil Tigers of Sri Lanka, regime change .

    Training and harboring of Maoist militants of Nepal, multiple regime changes including the massacre of KIng BIrendra’s entire family
    in 2001….A joint venture with CIA !

    BLockade of land locked Napal in 1998 and 2015 …cuz the tiny kingdom was cozying up with China.
    [Rings a bell ?
    no wonder they call India the
    USA of South Asia]

    Subjugation of BHutan , rendering it intoa Indian protectorate.

    Border dispute, water problem with Bangladesh
    FF in Maldives.

    India’s problem with Pakistan needs no introduction.

    fukus propaganda says China has problem with all its neighbors,
    B.S., its their beloved India that’s the local bully !

    No wonder Nixon call India the most aggressive [email protected]#$%^
    But then, it take one to love one eh. ?

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Bombercommand
  279. Malla says:
    @showmethereal

    it is no wonder they don’t want to see China and Russia collaborating.

    Those idiots should have kept their paws off Ukraine then and not picked on Russia so much. As Russia faces heat from the West, it is bound to move even closer to China. And more heat on China, it is bound to move closer to Russia, two gigantic nations. A new Axis block in formation. Except unlike the earlier Axis (Germany + Japan), these two are much bigger, have more natural resources and geographically border each other. What a bunch of morons the Western elites are. So moronic, that they shoot themselves in the foot and maybe thus with time will destroy themselves, which is a good thing.

    • Agree: Ron Unz
    • Replies: @showmethereal
  280. FB says: • Website
    @Malla

    Well…you released a lot of steam and vinegar to basically agree with most of what I said…

    As for insulting Indian culture, that is not where I stand at all…I have a lot of respect and admiration for India, especially its ideology with regards to animals, which is truly a shining example to the world in terms of how humans need to consider that our own needs and wants must not come at the expense of the animal world, which is deserving of respect, empathy and accommodation…India is far far ahead of the west [and the rest of the world] in this very important regard…

    It is amazing to see impoverished villagers not react at all if they lose a cow to a lion [a huge loss for a poor rural family]…in Africa they will just kill it even if it gets close, never mind if it actually causes any livestock loss…in Russia, they have nearly lost the Siberian Tiger due to incredible negligence towards poaching that is on a level with Africa…

    These are actually very important matters to the human race…not least because we need to start thinking that it’s not all about us…

    I never would have put my comment about the poverty in India in those crude words when speaking to you or any Indian directly, out of common respect and decency…but my basic point is still valid…India has much bigger problems to solve in the vital social sphere, before it can contemplate extracurricular activities like a major war against China like some complete idiots are suggesting here…

    China’s socialist system has largely solved Chinese poverty which was just as bad, if not worse…because the Chinese leadership actually believes that this is their main job…to improve the lives of ordinary folks…that is where true national strength comes from…

    Instead, India is moving in the opposite direction towards the failed neoliberalism and oligarchy that has now thrown the west into a terminal decline…

    Here’s the bottom line, there is a major agit-prop campaign under way against China…the more China rises, the more shrill this agitation becomes…and what is really the purpose of it…do you ever stop to think about that…?

    The ONLY purpose of it is control of our own minds, the much abused sheeple who are seeing their everyday lives continuously getting worse, for decades now…so China hate is of course the best way to distract people from their own misery…and even more important, to prevent them from seeing the basic fact that ordinary Chinese folks are only living better and better…

    The elite cannot have people start wondering howcome the people in socialist China are doing better, while we keep doing worse and worse in every objective measure…

    That’s what it’s all about…and you will notice the almost unanimous voices of the retards here, not only screaming against the ‘Chicoms’ but now also trying to prop up India as some kind of proxy…why on earth would India participate in some kind of naval blockade of the sea lanes used for Chinese commerce…?

    Of course I have to believe no serious person among the Indian elite is even remotely thinking about such utter nonsense…but nonetheless, the Indian regime’s animosity towards China is being used by the collapsing US empire…to keep India from cooperating with China in any way possible, such as the Belt and Road initiative, or any other economic cooperation…

    So again, any kind of ‘war’ with China is completely out of the question…Modi and the nationalists in India are doing the same kind of hoopla against China as we see here…and for the exact same reasons…to distract the people from the real problems…

    Look you make a lot of noise about past small incidents, such as during the Cultural Revolution…but at that time, China and Russia almost went to war, see the Sino-Soviet border dispute that was a lot more kinetic than a few diplomats getting roughed up [as truly bad as that is]…

    And now China and Russia have a friendship and a real partnership that is getting real results for their people…so why is it impossible to think that India and China could become friends…wouldn’t that be a lot better…?

    The fact is it is entirely possible, and in fact inevitable…the world is going to progress and move forward, as fraught as those steps may inevitably be…

    • Replies: @Malla
  281. denk says:
    @Malla

    iN 1962,
    India’s ‘forward policy’, a creeping encroachment into Chinese territory had its own momentum no doubt, but fukus exploitation of Indian ambition was well documented and should be common knowledge by now.

    Knowing,–and saying–that India cannot accomplish this alone, India’s ruling class confers feverishly with American and British strategists, seeking “aid” from the West. And Western imperialists cynically seek their own aims through India: a new dominance of Asia by Western imperialism, using Indians as cheap cannon fodder. This is what worries Pakistan, Nepal, Burma and even at times Indonesia.

    https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/strong-anna-louise/1963/letters_china/ch08.htm

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @FB
  282. Malla says:
    @denk

    But then, it take one to love one eh.

    Nixon loved Mao.

    Luv iz in da air. Luv iz in da eyes. Luv iz in da smile.

    • Replies: @denk
  283. @Malla

    I doubt that genetics has much of an influence on how well soldiers or guerrillas fight. I think it is plain from recent history that of vastly greater importance is Morale, Generalship and Ideology. Weapons can change hands. For fighters to fight well and bravely they have to believe they are fighting for something worthwhile. To fight effectively they have to be well led. “Lions led by donkeys” as was observed some time ago, is a recipe for defeat or a terribly costly victory.

  284. Malla says:
    @denk

    Please, denk do not give me all those dumbass Marxist links. The idiotic Marxists were bitter because India did not take up their murderous ideology and thank god. I do not have time for comedy.
    I want proof that JFK was involved with the forward policy of India. That statement is no proof.

    Also this is even more idiotic as the USA was a major ally to Pakistan, not India before 1962.

    Pakistani Prime Minister Ali Khan, initially attempted to establish friendly relations with both the Soviet Union and the United States in hopes that Pakistan could benefit from an alliance with both superpowers. Both the Military of Pakistan and Foreign Service of Pakistan raised doubts as to whether the Soviets had the political will and capacity to provide military, technical, and economic aid to a similar degree that Soviets had begun to offer to Pakistan’s socialist neighbor, India. Pakistan nevertheless requested military aid from the USSR, which was predictably rebuffed as the Soviet Union had previously oriented itself to India.The government’s overtures to the Soviet Union were not favorably regarded by Pakistan’s conservative middle classes, who regarded the USSR as an atheist and socialist ally of India.

    In 1950, the United States extended an overture to Pakistan by inviting Prime Minister Khan for an official state visit. As the USSR had rebuffed capitalist Pakistan and aligned itself with Pakistan’s rivals, the country’s policy crafters found that maintaining friendly relations with both superpowers was impossible. Prime Minister Khan accepted the American invitation and paid an official 23-day state visit to the United States beginning on May 3, 1950.

    Throughout the period between 1950 and 1953, several major Pakistan political and military figures paid visits to the United States. During this time, Army commander Ayub Khan paid visits to the United States – a figure who would later institute a strongly pro-American military dictatorship.

    Defense ties between the two countries strengthened almost immediately following Khan’s visit to the United States. Personal goodwill towards Pakistan was evident even when Liaqat Ali Khan was assassinated in 1951. Under the government of Khawaja Nazimuddin, Pakistani and American officials developed positive attitudes towards one another. Such personal goodwill was evident when Secretary of State John Foster Dulles, while arguing for wheat aid to Pakistan in 1953, told the sub-committee on Agriculture and Forestry during hearings that, “the [p]eople of Pakistan had a splendid military tradition,” and that in Karachi he had been met by a guard of honour which was the “finest” he had ever seen”. Close ties between the countries were further consolidated by a mutual defense treaty signed in May 1954, after which hundreds of Pakistani military officers began to regularly train in the United States. A U.S. Military Assistance Advisory Group (MAAG) was also established in Rawalpindi, then capital of Pakistan.

    In 1956, President Dwight Eisenhower requested permission from Pakistan’s new Prime Minister, Huseyn Suhravardie, to lease the Peshawar Air Station (PAS), which was to be used in intelligence gathering of Soviet intercontinental ballistic missiles. The request was granted, and soon the United States built an airstrip, command and control station at the site before initiating operations.

    During the dictatorship of Ayub Khan, Pakistan enjoyed a close relationship with the United States. Ayub Khan was strongly pro-American, and on a visit the United States in 1954, before Khan was head of state, he famously told American Brigadier-General Henry A. Byroade, “I didn’t come here to look at barracks. Our army can be your army if you want us. But let’s make a decision”. His view of the United States had remained positive by the time he seized power. In fact, during the 1960s, Pakistan’s population was generally pro-American and held a similarly positive view of the United States.

    In 1960, Ayub Khan granted permission for the United States to fly its first spy missions to the Soviet Union from the Peshawar Air Base, which had been recently upgraded with American funds.
    In 1961, Khan paid his first visit to the United States as head of state. American goodwill towards Khan was evident by an elaborate state dinner held at Mount Vernon, and a ticker tape parade for Khan in New York City.

    Why didn’t Murica use Pakistan? Why didn’t Western imperialists seek their own aims through Pakistan but India a Soviet ally???? Why not a new dominance of Asia by Western imperialism, using Pakistanis as cheap cannon fodder? Use Indians, allies of the Soviets a cheap cannon fodder???? You know how idiotic that sounds?

    • Replies: @denk
  285. @JohnPlywood

    It’s over for China. China now has to go back to being the country it really is: poor, burdened by a Communist government that cannot feed its people, and non-competitive on a global and even regional scale. You can write back endless responses denying everything and asserting the supremacy of Huawei, but it’s not gonna prevent the inevitable fall of the CCP. What’s about to unfold is going to blow your mind, and your diaper.

    Oh Dear! Where have I heard this before? I bet that this ban will be overcome by Huawei in a comparatively short time and they will teach themselves how to make chips with superior technology to that of their rivals because of it. This is technology, not magic! There is nothing about the technology of making chips that cannot be learnt. It is not a matter of having a “Philosopher’s stone” or the right spell! It’s been done before, and it can be done again and who more likely to work out how to do it than the Chinese?

    I could give examples of this sort of thinking, going back to before the PRC was declared, but this is a really egregious example! Such confidence!
    Look, the entire Chinese export trade is c. 30% of its total trade. I don’t know what portion of that trade is Huawei’s contribution, but let’s just for the sake of the argument say that it is a large part of it, say 10%. So let’s say that Trump successfully kills Huawei. (Won’t happen but never mind!) That means that China’s export trade is now 27% of its total trade. A hit? Sure! But lethal? Justifies this: ” China now has to go back to being the country it really is: poor, “? I don’t think so! Seems a bit er, exaggerated to me! Beside the USA China trades with 130 other countries. Their exports went up 6% y/y, in July 2020.

  286. @denk

    Like FB, you have a reading comprehension problem. I used “moral high ground” only in reference to China’s “Big Western Line” starving neighboring countries for water, then those countries would have a moral high ground in a conflict with China. China has built an astonishing amount of water impoundment and diversion infrastructure in Sichuan and Qinghai, both on the eastern border with Tibet. This infrastructure is meant to channel water to the Yellow and Yangtze Rivers for use in North East China. All that is needed now is the hookups to the Himalayan Icecap, which is shrinking, while demand is growing. A major diversion of the Brahmaputra River would greatly affect India, but be catastrophic to Bangladesh. Imagine millions of water refugees from Bangladesh pouring into India. I am not taking sides here, but there are three nuclear armed nations with batshit crazy leadership and batshit crazy population all being backed into a corner where no compromise is possible. Eastern China needs vast amounts of water, and China is drying due to Global Warming. The Yangtze and Yellow Rivers are grossly polluted, water from Tibet is ultra high quality. China talks casually of diversions of 200 billion cubic meters yearly of water for North East China, and why not more?What will be the source of this water? Why build scores of dams and tunnels on the Tongtian, Yalong, and Dadu Rivers connecting to the Yellow River? These gargantuan water projects develop an inertia due not only for the need for water but the need of construction companies for more contracts. I don’t blame China, but this cannot end well for the world.

  287. Sulu says:
    @denk

    Perhaps instead of commenting on this forum you should use your great intellect and monetary resources to bring Uncle Sam to heal. Should be a simple matter for an obvious genius such as yourself.

    Sulu

  288. Sulu says:
    @showmethereal

    You are a clueless apologist for a third rate military power such as China. If you had the slightest idea what you were talking about you wouldn’t even invite a comparison between the Chinese and U.S. Navy.

    A quick perusal of most any credible military reference would tell you that if one considers tonnage alone the U.S. Navy is bigger than the next 13 Navy’s in the World combined. Just let that sink in. That fact obviously chaps your ass but too bad. Any conflict between the U.S. and Chinese Navy can end only one way. With China on the bottom of the sea and America on top.

    Only a brain dead moron could see it any other way. Now you run along sonny boy. And wipe the Chinese jizz off your chin. It doesn’t look manly.

    Sulu

    • Replies: @Voatboy
    , @Showmethereal
  289. Sulu says:
    @denk

    Hey Dink,

    I’m not impressed by you using a partial quote of mine as a feeble attempt to make your rather lame ass point. If you are going to quote me use the entire quote. Any thing less is amphigory. Google that word if you need to. I suspect you do.

    Sulu

    • Replies: @denk
  290. Voatboy says:
    @Sulu

    if one considers tonnage alone the U.S. Navy is bigger than the next 13 Navy’s in the World combined.

    OK, smart guy, if you are the only one who did his homework, riddle me this:

    Does the USA have enough tonnage to cover the entire planet’s oceans? Because they seem to embrace ever expanding responsibility to protect. So they need more boats than everyone else.

    Second, the vulnerability of surface ships to modern weapons is serious. The USA would look weak if it suffered too many losses. Do they have any defense strategy other than sending dozens of submarines? Do they have any counterattack strategy?

    Third, the PRC navy is also vulnerable. Does the USA have any asymmetrical tactics to wreck them before they can wreck Taiwan?

    Fourth, how do either of these nuclear powers plan to avoid accidentally slipping over the edge into nuclear war?

    • Replies: @d dan
    , @Sulu
  291. FB says: • Website
    @denk

    Thanks for that excellent letter from 1963 Denk…

    Of course the US sought to use India against China even 60 years ago…

    That 1963 ‘Letter from China,’ by noted socialist correspondent Anna Louise Strong, quotes from a March, 1963 piece in The Christian Science Monitor…

    ‘The U.S…. will make India a “deterrent weapon” against China.’ India will increase her army from the present half million to two million men and ‘put it in position on the Himalayas to exert steady pressure and keep China continuously occupied.’

    Of course we know very well the imperialist leopard’s spots that never can change…despite all the silly protestations we see coming out in this discussion…mostly trying to obscure an objective reading of history that has seen India jump from one colonialist master to another…

    Many more letters from Ms Strong in that web archive…thanks…

    • Disagree: Malla
    • Replies: @Malla
    , @denk
    , @Malla
  292. Malla says:
    @FB

    As for insulting Indian culture, …….. solve in the vital social sphere, before it can contemplate extracurricular activities like a major war against China like some complete idiots are suggesting here…

    Listen, I do not have time for you B.S. trying to cover up about that extremely insulting racist tirade against Indians by how much you love Indian culture and all that B.S. Yet you talk against Imperialism? LOL Not surprising, Black nationalist Malcolm X had the opinion that he had more respect for outright racists than hypocritical White Libtards/Lefties who hid their racism.
    I am pretty cool, because I know a lot of what you said is true. About shitting and indoor plumbing. Truth is truth after all. Racism is normal human behaviour, most of us Indians are racist and tribal too.
    BTW, Indian villagers normally poison predators who take their lifestock.
    And BTW this is interesting, Sir Alan Cuthbert Maxwell Burns, colonial officer wrote a book attacking racism, “Colour Prejudice” but also wrote a book supporting Colonialism, “In Defence of Colonies”.
    Anyways moving on.

    because the Chinese leadership actually believes that this is their main job…to improve the lives of ordinary folks…that is where true national strength comes from…

    Ya sure, I will believe that. Communist leaders are super human.

    Instead, India is moving in the opposite direction towards the failed neoliberalism and oligarchy that has now thrown the west into a terminal decline…

    Ya maybe. But Indian nationalists hate Nehru today for his socialist policies, which according to them kept us poor and backward. They think it would have been better if we had full fledged Capitalism. But I think Nehru tried his best for the country, built gigantic factories with Soviet help. To be honest the British Raj too did a lot for the country. So unlike those Indian nationalists, I believe both Nehru’s socialist policies as well as the British Raj took us forward in Industry and development from a feudal era. Indians just like to blame either the British Raj or socialist Nehru/Congress rule instead of looking at their own faults. Typical Third world behaviour which keeps us backward and barbaric. What we need is self reflection instead of blaming.

    Here’s the bottom line, there is a major agit-prop campaign under way against China…the more China rises, ….and even more important, to prevent them from seeing the basic fact that ordinary Chinese folks are only living better and better…

    Yes I know, I totally oppose this targeting of China. And I am impressed with the the planned fashion of development of the Chinese Govt. Its crazy how, some years back it was all cool, America helped China into the WTO and all that. And now suddenly all this anti-PR China propaganda. I have a feeling, President Xi did something which pissed off some powerful Globalist people.

    The elite cannot have people start wondering howcome the people in socialist China are doing better, while we keep doing worse and worse in every objective measure…

    China today is a combination of Socialism and Capitalism, more like State directed Capitalism. It is a unique Chinese combination. Most countries even Western countries combine Socialism and free market systems in many ways. Actually today’s China reminds me more of NS Germany in economic system than anything else. I am not saying both systems are exactly the same, but China’s present model seem the most similar to National Socialist Third Reich Germany.
    I think the best economic policy is combining some of the best elements of Socialism as well as free market economics but avoiding Marxist Communism as well as US style Vulture Capitalism.

    but now also trying to prop up India as some kind of proxy

    Listen, please see that video of Major General Bakshi again. WE ARE NOBODY”S PROXIES, OUR ENMITY WITH CHINA IS PERSONAL. EVEN IF THE WEST DISAPPEARS FROM THIS PLANET THIS ENMITY MAY REMAIN. STOP TREATING US LIKE LITTLE KIDS TAKING DIRECTIONS FROM THE WEST. India has her own interests, her own decisions. Trust me on that. We will go against the West (we have a lot in the past) if it suits our perceived national interests, we will collaborate with the West if it suits our perceived national interest. Talk to any diplomat, Indian diplomats have a reputation for being pushy, of getting what they want. If there is a war with China tomorrow and if nobody comes to help us, the USA or Australia or Russia etc…. we will have to fight our own battles, even if we lose. But we will fight. Major General Bakshi of the Indian Army in that video says that we do not need anybody, USA, Australia, nobody. Indians at a deep level, do not trust any foreigners anyways either the Chinese or Americans or anybody.

    why on earth would India participate in some kind of naval blockade of the sea lanes used for Chinese commerce…?

    Because India & China have been enemies many times and are kind of enemies now. And we have great geopolitical location, the ocean is called the Indian Ocean for a reason, no other ocean is named after a country. And we have a reasonably powerful navy, weaker than China’s, agreed but in the Indian Ocean, it is difficult dominating the Indian Navy. We may shit with our asses to the sea in our navy ships and our naval ships lack plumbing but if the Indian State gets into an altercation with China, it may use this option of blockading China. Indian Naval officers have discussed this in many videos but most of them are in Hindi.

    Of course I have to believe no serious person among the Indian elite is even remotely thinking about such utter nonsense

    I hope so too. But at times I doubt. The Chinese leadership is more level headed than ours.

    to keep India from cooperating with China in any way possible, such as the Belt and Road initiative, or any other economic cooperation…

    India opposition for the BRI may have some American hand but there are some national level reservations as well. For example, the CPEC (branch of the BRI) runs though territory claimed by India, so India considers it illegal. The Indian deep state is afraid that BRI is a tool of Chinese imperialism and that it may push us into debt bondage to China. There are many more reasons to explain here.

    Modi and the nationalists in India are doing the same kind of hoopla against China as we see here…and for the exact same reasons…to distract the people from the real problems…

    Yes, could be possible. China has been used as a punching bag by the Indian elites to distract attention of the Indian masses. India and Pakistan both use each other as punching bags. China does the same with Japan.
    But I suspect, Modi wants to get close to the USA as well as block Chinese good into the market which they believe were killing Indian industry and causing unemployment. Modi has to provide employment to a gigantic population. They believe (rightly or wrongly) that banishing Chinese products from the Indian market will give our companies (including Govt Companies/PSU-Public Sector Units) some breathing space. Indeed thanks to cheap Chinese imports, many of our Government sector industries have died off, causing unemployment.

    Look you make a lot of noise about past small incidents, such as during the Cultural Revolution…

    Listen dude, maybe those incidents were small. But the fact remains that the Indian nation will consider the Chinese Govt as its enemy for a foreseeable future. At least a decade or more. We will have to live with that. Actually what you may not know is this but many Indian civil servants are weary and suspicious of the USA, a leftover from the cold war. Even tho there are many pro-USA forces working in India, there were opposing forces too. But after the recent Galwan incident, the anti-USA guys have jumped on the USA bandwagon. I do not know who is responsible for the border clash, India or China. But if it is China, it is probably one of the biggest mistake they had wished they had not made as now India inevitably will move closer to the United States. Due to this in a future war situation, they would face the same problem Germany faced in WW2, a two front war. India too is afraid of a two front war with China and Pakistan.

    And now China and Russia have a friendship and a real partnership that is getting real results for their people…so why is it impossible to think that India and China could become friends…wouldn’t that be a lot better…?

    India too has great relationships with Russia. Listen dude, I personally want good relationship in between India and China. In many issues w.r.t Indo-China relationships, I am pro Chinese. You are trying to frame everything as evul West vs the great heroic countries of China, Russia etc.. That is your frame. You seem to be fighting some cold war against evul Capitalist West even if your heroes like China and Russia are themselves not 100% Communist anymore and have huge Capitalistic Corporations of their own. You are stuck in some Cold War mentality.
    The Indian population does not share you worldview. Here it is Pakistan and China are enemies. Russia and USA are our friends.

    The fact is it is entirely possible, and in fact inevitable…the world is going to progress and move forward, as fraught as those steps may inevitably be…

    Ya hope so.

    • Replies: @KA
    , @FB
    , @Miro23
  293. d dan says:
    @Voatboy

    I am trembling already. This is so scary:

    “The U.S. Navy has 11 nuclear carriers deployed and are building more.” – Sulu

    “And, there can be no doubt that the U.S. military has many assets that are not known to the general public.” – Sulu

    “China is no match for the U.S. Navy at this point in time and any one that thinks different is a fool. ” – Sulu

    “China can’t outclass the U.S. Navy anywhere in the world. To think otherwise is sheer fantasy.” – Sulu

    “considers tonnage alone the U.S. Navy is bigger than the next 13 Navy’s in the World combined. Just let that sink in. ” – Sulu

    But, but, but….

    “Power is like being a lady… if you have to tell people you are, you aren’t. ” – Margaret Thatcher

    • Replies: @Sulu
  294. Anon[402] • Disclaimer says:
    @Malla

    Whatever be the merits of the regimes of Saddam or Ghaddafi , at least the education system didn’t suffer the problem of exclusiveness . Syria is also not a victim of an educational disparity .

    Sri Lanka , Malayasia Thailand Cambodia don’t suffer from this problem either . Literacy is much higher in these countries .

    Buddhism brought universal education . Brahminism closed the doors .

    Education has been much lower priority across the board in a lot of Wahhabism influenced Muslim countries .

    • Agree: Malla
  295. KA says:
    @Malla

    “Thinking of the Hindu alternative to Pakistan, the scheme that at once comes to one’s mind is the one put forth by the late Lala Hardayal in 1925. It was published in the form of a statement which appeared in the Pratap of Lahore. In this statement, which he called his political testament, Lala Hardayal said:—
    “I declare that the future of the Hindu race, of Hindustan and of the Punjab, rests on these four pillars: (1) Hindu Sangathan, (2) Hindu Raj, (3) Shuddhi of Moslems, and (4) Conquest and Shuddhi of Afghanistan and the Frontiers. So long as the Hindu nation does not accomplish these four things, the safely of our children and great-grandchildren will be ever in danger, and the safety of the Hindu race will be impossible. The Hindu race has but one history, and its institutions are homogeneous. But the Musalmans and Christians are far removed from the confines of Hindustan, for their religions are alien and they love Persian, Arab and European institutions. Thus, just as one removes foreign matter from the eye, Shuddhi must be made of these two religions. Afghanistan and the hilly regions of the frontier were formerly part of India, but are at present under the domination of Islam. . . .Just as there is Hindu religion in Nepal, so there must be Hindu institutions in Afghanistan and the frontier territory; otherwise it is useless to win Swaraj. For mountain tribes are always warlike and hungry. If they become our enemies, the age of Nadirshah and Zamanshah will begin anew. At present English officers are protecting the frontiers; but it cannot always be. . . .If Hindus want to protect themselves, they must conquer Afghanistan and the frontiers and convert all the mountain tribes.”

    /1/ See Times of India dated 25-7-1925, “Through Indian Eyes.”

    http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00ambedkar/ambedkar_partition/307a.html#m01

    If there were no partition, India would be fighting against Iran,Afghanistan,Tazikstan and against China from another front.

    • Thanks: Malla
    • Replies: @Malla
  296. Sulu says:
    @d dan

    If you don’t think the U.S. Military is the most powerful on the planet you are clueless. About three or four of the posters here sound like Chinese assets trying to desperately deflect from the fact that the Chinese Navy isn’t shit. I can’t take any of you paid trolls with any degree of seriousness.

    Sulu

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @last straw
  297. Sulu says:
    @Voatboy

    Are you trying to deny that the U.S. Navy is bigger in tonnage that the next 13 Navy’s in the World Combined? Because that is a fact and it tells the story.

    Why don’t you go back to your rice bowl. You have probably made enough money posting here to feed yourself for one more day.

    Sulu

    • Replies: @Voatboy
    , @antibeast
  298. antibeast says:
    @AnonCN

    You are very obsessed with Confucianism, aren’t you? What I see China can offer: a value shift from small singular to plural. Not from 1 to 2, but from singular to plural. China offers this value based on strong believe in equality and fairness to all human being. It has something to do with both the antique Confucianism and not so old communism, but also many other things are related. Talk about continuity and consistency.

    Yes, I am an East Asian Confucianist who believes that Chinese Socialism must be based on East Asian Confucianism not Western Marxism-Leninism which is not compatible with the East Asian cultural environment. The CCP has already abandoned the principal tenets of Western Marxism-Leninism which was created by Jewish Bolsheviks to destroy White Christian Civilization. Mao created Maoism to adapt Western Marxism-Leninism to the East Asian cultural environment. Deng then abandoned Maoism in favor of Chinese Socialism which should be based on East Asian Confucianism.

    • Disagree: FB
  299. FB says: • Website
    @Malla

    So now I’m racist because I stand up for poor people who don’t have indoor plumbing…?

    Also Indian villagers may poison smaller predators, which are in no danger, but not the big cats, which are not only protected vigorously by the government, but also the people have a great respect and tolerance for them…

    As for your silliness about Indian navy ships lacking indoor plumbing…no, the military doesn’t work that way…any country, especially a major power does make sure that the military is taken care of first…it’s job one for keeping the country in one piece…

    India’s military occupies a prestigious place in the country, and offers a great upward mobility for ordinary young people, just like in any real country, including the US…and btw, the military is both socialist and a dictatorship, in every country…because that’s the only way it can work…

    And yes, China’s communist leaders are a shining example to any country, because they have made the well being of the people the overarching priority…naturally this is the most difficult to accept for people that have been programmed with indoctrination their whole lives…

    Large private corporations do exist, but they are not the power base for an oligarchic system as they are in the rotten west…the power is with the government, which is indeed invested with the full trust of the people…big big difference…

    India would do well to start emulating China…I’m not going to get into a useless shpiel about economics and what mix of private business vs direct state control in the economy is best, but the Chinese have found a mix that works…private capital has no say in anything…only the CCP does…and the CCP is indeed accountable to the people, anyone that denies that is living in disneyland…

    • Replies: @Malla
  300. Malla says:
    @FB

    India would do well to start emulating China

    I agree too. But India is filled jealousy towards China’s rise. Instead we should be learning from their experience and implementing it.

    As for your silliness about Indian navy ships lacking indoor plumbing

    My comment about naval ships not having indoor plumbing was a joke.

    but they are not the power base for an oligarchic system as they are in the rotten west…the power is with the government, which is indeed invested with the full trust of the people…big big difference…

    I understand. Thanks.

  301. Malla says:
    @KA

    Shuddhi for those who would not know is cleansing, here it means reconversion because in the reconversion process, cleansing ceremonies takes place, as a non Hindu is considered unclean. Shuddhi of Moslems–> Reconvert the Muslims to Hindus.

  302. Malla says:
    @FB

    history that has seen India jump from one colonialist master to another…

    And India was a Soviet ally. And Pakistan was an American ally.

    socialist correspondent Anna Louise Strong,

    The Communists were bitter that India did not go Communist. And in the minds of the Communist buffoons, the world was Communism vs Western Capitalist Imperialism. That is a childish simplification of human affairs and geopilitics. It is much more complicated than that.

  303. Voatboy says:
    @Sulu

    No, I am well aware of the USA and its military. I wanted to hear about its naval tactics. Maybe you know naval tactics, maybe you don’t…. It doesn’t matter because now you have decided to dig in your heels and use the discussion for rhetoric, not information. I am both disappointed and surprised. I honestly expected you to knock that softball out of the park!

    By the way, the questions I asked are not insulting to the USA. Don’t confuse insults to you as an individual with insults against the USA. Have fun dominating this thread, I am confident that you will.

  304. denk says:
    @Bombercommand

    China, in its stupidity and arrogance, will not hesitate to turn off the flow to India

    Have it ever crossed your mind that…..

    India’s track record towards its neighbors in the past seventy years surely is the epitome of arrogance,
    stupidity

    Not to mention……USA

    Im not taking sides

    YOur slip, is showing.

  305. denk says:
    @Malla

    Hmm’
    uncle sham, that smiling tiger…

    fukus took full advantage of that liaison to infiltrate, co-op the CCP, PLA, intel, intellects, Culminating to that infamous TAM caper in 1989.

    FROM the horse mouth,
    KIssinger, the architect of that brief honeymoon [sic] bet fukus/China…

    ‘When uncle sham profess his love, run for your life’

    • LOL: Malla
    • Replies: @Malla
  306. antibeast says:
    @Sulu

    Are you trying to deny that the U.S. Navy is bigger in tonnage that the next 13 Navy’s in the World Combined? Because that is a fact and it tells the story.

    Nobody is denying that the US military has the most powerful Navy in the world which the USA Empire uses to project its power all over the world. But the US Navy is vulnerable to China’s A2/AD strategy which is now a reality in East Asia. The US Navy will be facing Chinese missiles not the Chinese Navy in the South China Sea.

    Let me apprise you of the Basic Laws of Physics as it applies to China’s A2/AD strategy to combat the US Navy in the South China Sea:

    1). Aircraft carriers are designed to carry and transport jet fighters from A to B so that jet fighters can fly from B to C and then fire missiles from C to D.
    2). Aircraft carriers are slow-moving (56km/h) bulky vessels.
    2). Jet fighters have limited range (F-35 – 2,200km; F-22 – 3,000km) and limited missiles.
    3). Aircraft carriers need to rely on anti-missile missiles for defense, either on-board or on guided missile destroyers as part of its Carrier Strike Group.

    China has the world’s largest arsenal of intermediate range ballistic and hypersonic missiles with a range up to 5,500km. The US Navy’s aircraft carriers are within range of China’s missiles once they enter the South China Sea but those F-35/F-22 jet fighters are not within range of China’s border where those missile batteries are located. That means the PLA can attack the US Navy before those jet fighters can strike China.

    How hard is it to target humongous aircraft carriers moving at 56km/h compared to the difficulty of defending against hypersonic missiles traveling at MACH 5 or above speeds?

    Now let’s consider the economics behind China’s PLA A2/AD strategy vs the US Navy’s Air/Sea Battle doctrine:

    Moore’s Law states that silicon performance doubles every 18 months which applies to Information Technology as it affects the detection, tracking and targeting of moving assets such as aircraft carriers. Industrial Technology found in aircraft carriers and jet fighters haven’t improved much since their invention in the 20th century but have increased their costs geometrically as a function of inflation. So China’s PLA A2/AD strategy will improve its performance exponentially over time vs the US Navy’s Air/Sea battle doctrine whose costs will increase geometrically as inflation costs add up.

    Both the Laws of Physics and the Laws of Economics combined makes the US Navy’s Air/Sea Battle doctrine obsolete in the South China Sea.

    • Replies: @FB
  307. denk says:
    @Malla

    dumbass Marxist links

    dont shoot the messenger,
    check the facts.

    Its so eerie, almost sounds like yesterday….
    just swap Nehru with MOdi, JFK with Trump.

    ‘Projects already appear in the world’s press that go far beyond the border conflict. The plans that appeared from Washington in early April from the visit of Patnaik, Nehru’s special envoy, were not dreamed up in a few days or weeks to meet any “Chinese threat on the border”. They are old plans that once were called “the American Century“, now adjusted to use India instead of China as source of raw materials and cheap soldiers and labor.’

    Then they had the PLan for New American Century in 2002
    Trump’s brizkreig on China is nuthin but PNAC on steroid.

    Trump and co drove out Apple from China to take up shop in India to take advantage its cheap labor,
    so much for MAGA !

    • Replies: @Malla
  308. denk says:
    @FB

    You’r welcomed.

    From ms Strong’s letter…..

    Special to U.S. AMERICANS! If you live blockaded in our good, old U.S.A., you can’t subscribe! Don’t try; it’s against U.S. law to send money to China. Even if we go to some pains to deal through the two firms licensed to import periodicals from China, the money goes into an account blocked by Uncle Sam. What fun is in that?

    See, even then, USA was trying its
    damndest to knee China’s jugular.

    Sometime somebody may publish in the U.S.A. charging to cover the costs. Till then, resign yourself to getting it as gift from me, not to you but to educate my country!

    Didnt Fred Reed says USA is unsalvageable ?
    The evidence is right here in this thread.

    RIP
    ms Anna,

  309. Smith says:
    @AnonCN

    Getting defensive now, chink brother? Talk about psycho hentai jap then feel free to talk about vagina, dick and fuck? I guess it’s further proving that there is not much difference between the normal folk and the psycho perverse?

    And chinese jurchen, chinese mongol and chinese manchu? How about chinese jap, chinese anglos as well? Everyone who ever fucks a chink is a chinese, right?

    Talk about big topic, big country, big mindset, I have only small mindset that only when you survive, you can talk about big and small, lol.

    Stay safe and well, big chink brother. Think about what you post deeply and use that big mindset to try and understand others, ok? For this monkey can teach you a lesson any times, if you are interested.

  310. Malla says:
    @anon

    One wonders if Ghandhi was a creation of British as well

    Ya, who knows.

    He never challenged the sources of revenue -tax system .

    He did, he attacked the Salt Tax via his Dandi March.

    The whole independence struggle looks like some scam.

    However Gandhi was a thinker of some merit with some unique views about life and politics. To understand Gandhi’s philosophy one has gotta read his book ‘Hind Swaraj’. Unfortunately his other book ‘My Experiments with Truth’ is more famous.
    What we find is that Gandhi was against modern industrial technology. And he makes some good a arguments such as railways may be good for travel, but it spreads criminals too. Earlier people would have to go through hardships to go to their sites of pilgrimage, but now thanks to easy travel by rail, the sanctity of that journey full of hardships to see and worship their diety is gone. Thanks to modern Western medicine and its quick healing ability, people abuse their bodies more and have lost self control. Though I must add that even though Gandhi was vehemently against Modern Western medicine, when he was sick in jail, he allowed modern surgery by an English doctor. LOL. “English doctors and Western medicine for me but not for thee”, sez Gandhi to other Indians.
    But anyways that makes Gandhi a very Anthony Ludovici like personality in this viewpoint.

    Gandhi argues that very few British are in India and most of India is rural. If the Indian population would widraw from the Raj system, the system would just collapse. He also says that the Empire is based on “moral superiority”. But Gandhi would out moral the British.
    He says that if Indians would attack and kill the British, the British nation would become more stubborn and fight back, that is what happened in the Mutiny of 1857 (Bibighar Massacre of British women and children) but if we out-moral them, they themselves would themselves give India its independence. He basically was saying that the British are a great military power but their morality being their strength was also a weakness and that could be exploited.

    On that Western Medicine thing, Gandhi was pro Ayurveda (traditional Indian herbal medicine) against evul Western medicine.
    From Katherine Mayo’s book Mother India:
    ——————————————
    But once upon a time it chanced that Mr. Gandhi, having widely and publicly announced that “hospitals are institutions for propagating sin”;[11] that “European doctors are the worst of all,” and that “quacks whom we know are better than the doctors who put on an air of humaneness,”[12] himself fell suddenly ill of a pain in the side.

    [11. Indian Home Rule, p. 61.]
    [12. Ibid., p. 62.]
    As he happened to be in prison at the time, a British surgeon of the Indian Medical Service came straightway to see him.

    “Mr. Gandhi,” said the surgeon, as the incident was reported, “I am sorry to have to tell you that you have appendicitis. If you were my patient, I should operate at once. But you will probably prefer to call in your Aruvedic physician.”

    Mr. Gandhi proved otherwise minded.

    “I should prefer not to operate,” pursued the surgeon, “because in case the outcome should be unfortunate, all your friends will lay it as a charge of malicious intent against us whose duty it is to care for you.”

    “If you will only consent to operate,” pleaded Mr. Gandhi, “I will call in my friends, now, and explain to them that you do so at my request.”

    So, Mr. Gandhi willfully went to an “institution for propagating sin”; was operated upon by one of the “worst of all,” an officer of the Indian Medical Service, and was attentively nursed through convalescence by an English Sister whom he is understood to have thought after all rather a useful sort of person.
    ——————————————
    LOL.

  311. denk says:
    @Sulu

    I’ve no respect for Anybody who claims that fukus built its 12 carrier groups [still growing], 300 foreign bases, 200 biowarfare Frankenstein labs, nukes which can destroy the planet 100 times over and still growing……..in order to deter a potential foe.

    dink

    I thought you’r only stupid, so you’r a stupid cunt to boot,.

    P.S.
    Im still waiting for your answer,
    Why’s China your foe ?
    why do you think USA has any biz acting as a globocop….is it normal for criminal to hold court where you come from ?

  312. Malla says:
    @denk

    dont shoot the messenger,

    We are shooting a bullshit artist.

    check the facts.

    what facts

    just swap Nehru with MOdi, JFK with Trump.

    Is that your proof that JFK encouraged Nehru for the forward policy? LOL

    PLan for New American Century……..Trump and co drove out Apple from China to take up shop in India to take advantage its cheap labor,

    And this is proof JFK encouraged Nehru?????

    No proof. Just the ramblings of pissed of lunatics.

    • Replies: @denk
  313. Malla says:
    @FB

    mostly trying to obscure an objective reading of history that has seen India jump from one colonialist master to another…

    Yes Indeed.
    Indo Soviet relationship began with a visit by Indian Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru to the Soviet Union in June 1955, and First Secretary of the Communist Party Nikita Khrushchev’s return trip to India in the fall of 1955. While in India, Khrushchev announced that the Soviet Union supported Indian sovereignty over the disputed territory of the Kashmir region and over Portuguese coastal enclaves such as Goa.

    The Soviet Union’s strong relations with India had a negative impact upon both Soviet relations with the People’s Republic of China and Indian relations with the PRC, during the Khrushchev period. The Soviet Union declared its neutrality during the 1959 border dispute and the Sino-Indian war of October 1962, although the Chinese strongly objected. The Soviet Union gave India substantial economic and military assistance during the Khrushchev period, and by 1960 India had received more Soviet assistance than China had. This disparity became another point of contention in Sino-Soviet relations. In 1962 the Soviet Union agreed to transfer technology to co-produce the Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21 jet fighter in India, which the Soviet Union had earlier denied to China.

    In 1965 the Soviet Union served successfully as peace broker between India and Pakistan after an Indian-Pakistani border war. The Soviet Chairman of the Council of Ministers, literally Premier of the Soviet Union, Alexei Kosygin, met with representatives of India and Pakistan and helped them negotiate an end to the military conflict over Kashmir.

    In 1971 the former East Pakistan region initiated an effort to secede from its political union with West Pakistan. India supported the secession and, as a guarantee against possible Chinese entrance into the conflict on the side of West Pakistan, it signed with the Soviet Union the Indo-Soviet Treaty of Friendship and Cooperation in August 1971. In December, India entered the conflict and ensured the victory of the secessionists and the establishment of the new state of Bangladesh.

    During the 1980s, despite the 1984 assassination by Sikh separatists of Prime Minister Indira Gandhi, the mainstay of cordial Indian-Soviet relations, India maintained a close relationship with the Soviet Union. Indicating the high priority of relations with the Soviet Union in Indian foreign policy, the new Indian Prime Minister, Rajiv Gandhi, visited the Soviet Union on his first state visit abroad in May 1985 and signed two long-term economic agreements with the Soviet Union. According to Rejaul Karim Laskar, a scholar of Indian foreign policy, during this visit, Rajiv Gandhi developed a personal rapport with Soviet General Secretary Mikhail Gorbachev. In turn, Gorbachev’s first visit to a Third World state was his meeting with Rajiv Gandhi in New Delhi in late 1986. General Secretary Gorbachev unsuccessfully urged Rajiv Gandhi to help the Soviet Union set up an Asian collective security system. Gorbachev’s advocacy of this proposal, which had also been made by Leonid Brezhnev, was an indication of continuing Soviet interest in using close relations with India as a means of containing China. With the improvement of Sino-Soviet relations in the late 1980s, containing China had less of a priority, but close relations with India remained important as an example of Gorbachev’s new Third World policy.

    Russia currently is one of only two countries in the world (the other being Japan) that has a mechanism for annual ministerial-level defence reviews with India. The Indo-Russian Inter-Governmental Commission (IRIGC) is one of the largest and most comprehensive governmental mechanisms that India has had with any country internationally. Almost every department from the Government of India attends it.

  314. Malla says:
    @dogbumbreath

    American Ambassador to the Soviet Union William C Bullit sent a dispatch to the Secretary of State in 1935 :
    “It is of course the heartiest hope of the Soviet Government that the United States will become involved in a war with Japan”
    “The Soviet Union would try to avoid becoming an ally until Japan had been thoroughly defeated and would then merely use the opportunity to acquire Manchuria and Sovietize China
    The USA’ CFR creates its own enemies which included ISIS.

    Also check this out
    https://www.corbettreport.com/the-great-decoupling-how-the-west-is-engineering-its-own-downfall/
    The Great Decoupling: How the West is Engineering its Own Downfall
    “For those who like their answers up front, that answer is “yes.”

    For those who need to see the argument before they arrive at the conclusion, there are no shortage of stories demonstrating how Russia, China, and their “resistance bloc” allies have been built up by the west in recent years.

    The sanctions that have been levied against Iran in recent years have steadily driven that country into bilateral trade agreements that not only circumvent the sanctions, but help ease the country and its trading partners off their dependency on the dollar. There was the ‘gas-for-gold‘ swap between Iran and Turkey that skirted the sanctions. There was the ‘junk-for-oil‘ trade between Iran and India/China. There was the rouble-denominated bilateral agreement signed between Russia and Iran in 2012. In the long run, the west succeeded in doing damage to the Iranian economy, but they also succeeded in building up trading alliances that skirt the dollar (and weaken future sanctions regimes) altogether.

    The growing naval and aerial threat of the Chinese military has US technology to thank, not only by direct military transfer (as a Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory whistleblower demonstrated the Clinton administration did in the 1990s) but by indirect (and illegal) transfers via Israel. And just last month, a congressional investigation uncovered evidence that the US government was planning to give Russia high level military technology for use in training their troops as part of the FY2015 budget, even as they were talking about tough sanctions and dire consequences for Russia’s annexation of Crimea.

    The Chinese industrial juggernaut did not just spring up overnight; the infrastructure for China’s economic marvel of the last decade was laid in the decade before. In the seven years from 1994 to 2001 alone, direct investment of US-based multinational corporations in China quadraupled from $2.6 billion to $10.5 billion.


    Source Data: Excel file
    In the same time period, China rose from the 30th-largest target of US R&D investment to the 11th on the back of a doubling of US affiliates in the country. The list of companies that started major R&D activities or facilities in China in the 1990s reads like a who’s who of the CFR-nested Fortune 500 set: DuPont, Ford, General Electric, General Motors, IBM, Intel, Lucent Technologies, Microsoft, Motorola, and Rohm and Haas all had a significant stake in China by the beginning of the 21st century.

    And the BRICS association that economists were wringing their hands over in previous years as a major threat to American-led western economic neoliberalism? It was actually created by Goldman Sachs, an outgrowth of a research paper that was convincing enough that it actually caused the four nations (of the then-“BRIC” grouping) to start a political process that made the paper into reality.

    It seems that as we enter the world of the “new cold war” there is western backing behind every aspect of this new rivalry. And sure enough, the much-ballyhooed Cold War 2.0 is becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy. China’s decision to abstain from the UN Security Council vote on Crimea’s annexation last month was a significant turning point in and of itself. Given China’s unease over its own territorial issues (Tibet, Xinjiang), the fact that they didn’t vote for the resolution condemning a nation’s right to unilaterally secede from a country speaks volumes about China and Russia’s increasing cooperation in geopolitical matters.

    The inescapable conclusion is that the NATO powers have helped to create their own enemy. They have helped to arm and fund that enemy, and then poked and prodded him into reaction. We would do well to remember the true genesis of this conflict the next time we are told about the “New Cold War.”

    • Replies: @FB
  315. antibeast says:

    The Sikhs did not like the Mutineers, because they hated the Eastern ethnic groups like Biharis and Bengalis who filled the ranks of the Bengal army. During the British Sikh wars, it was the British EIC Bengal Army which conquered the Sikh Empire, both Sikhs and white Brits fought hard with each other, both were ruthless to each other but both ended up respecting each other’s martial skills.

    But the British did end up recruiting Sikhs to fight for them as part of their Army during WWI and WWII. The British also recruited Gurkhas who are East Asian mongoloids known for their ferocity in warfare.

    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09723757.2006.11885957

    Here’s a study on the DNA of the Gurkhas:

    The standard genetic distances of the Gurkha population were calculated on the basis of gene frequency data of HLA antigens and when compared with other populations, it has revealed that Gurkha population is genetically closer to the population of Mongoloid origin.

    • Replies: @Malla
  316. Half-Jap says:
    @Sulu

    Besides if carriers are obsolete why is China building them?

    Anyone’s guess really, unless there is a plan for direct force projection. They build them perhaps as a status symbol? To show us they can do it? 😛
    I do not believe that ofc, and that it would be a part of a plan towards force projection.
    However, my point stands, which you do not address: Such floating strips are worthless today. It would be useful to bully Samoa or whatever.
    Also, there is no reason not to sink them if push comes to shove. The enemy merely waits for a rationale. If the response is at such level, it would be a situation where other major objectives are in play, not just the stupid carriers.

  317. FB says: • Website
    @dogbumbreath

    Even in 1946 when the UN was formed, China and Russia (Soviet Union) were Communists and thus enemies of the West. Why would they be given a permanent seat with Veto powers? Makes zero sense.

    And who is the Magic Santa that ‘gives‘ out Permanent Seats on the UN Security Council…?

    The formation of the UN and its highest body, the Security Council, was the result of a TREATY in the aftermath of Word War Two…

    It was the BIG VICTORS, primarily the US and USSR that won the war and NEGOTIATED how the postwar order would be established…the Soviet Union was a in a position of HUGE STRENGTH, having done most of the work in defeating Germany and winning the war…

    Do you think they were going to sit there and let anybody dictate anything to them while they were straddling half of Europe, and the rest basically in their grasp…?

    And btw moron, China’s seat on the Security Council was held by Taiwan [Republic of China] until 1971…against US opposition…a sign of declining American power, even 50 years ago…

    It’s been downhill ever since…

    The level of retardation on this website is absolutely astonishing…

    • Replies: @dogbumbreath
  318. Malla says:
    @antibeast

    The British also recruited Gurkhas who are East Asian mongoloids known for their ferocity in warfare.

    Yes, of course the Gurkhas are predominantly Mongoloid types, they border Tibet. (about 10% to 15% of mainland South Asian DNA is Mongoloid anyways). The toughest folk in the subcontinent are the more Caucasoid types in the North West (Sikhs, Jats, Pastuns/Pathans) and the Mongoloid types in the North East (Gurkhas).


    Gorkhas/Gurkhas of the India Army
    The British Army still has Gurkha divisions. A Gurkha can be recruited in the Nepalese, Indian and British Army.

    Also, Indian Army recruited Tibetans (exile) to fight the 1971 Indo Pakistan (Independence of Bangladesh) war. A war which had nothing to do with them.
    https://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/slide-show-1-a-war-which-was-not-theirs/20120110.htm
    The Tibetans who fought the 1971 war
    https://www.boloji.com/articles/15247/the-tibetan-special-forces
    The Tibetan Special Forces – Unsung Heroes of 1971

    Tibetan Special Forces (TSF). They scared the shit out of the Pakistanis.
    From the second link
    “There is little doubt, corroborated by military specialists, that the Tibetan guerillas were wildly successful.In their campaign against the Pakistani 97th Independent Brigade and their 2nd commando battalion of SSG in Chittagong, they not only restrained their movements but also cut off their routes of escape to Burma. The SFF with their bold and striking hits were so swift that they seemed like merciless ghosts on the prowl. They came down like phantoms, killed the Pakistani soldiers, destroyed their posts and vanished. They never let up and continued the kill and vanish movements till the “phantom guerillas” virtually cleaned up all of Chittagong before the war was declared officially on Dec. 3, 1971, leaving the Indian army to advance with no resistance.”

    But the British did end up recruiting Sikhs to fight for them as part of their Army during WWI and WWII.

    There was some time before they recruited Sikhs. The Bengal Army was still majority Bihari & Bengali. Later on Biharis and Bengalis totally dropped out and many Bengal Regiments were made of Sikhs.

  319. FB says: • Website
    @Malla

    The growing naval and aerial threat of the Chinese military has US technology to thank…

    This is so ridiculous…and you are here citing the nutbar James Corbett, who is in the same league as another nutbar that is regularly cited on this website Miles [pi=4] Mathis…

    The Corbett article in turn cites a 66-page, 1997 report from the Federation of American Scientists…

    But if you had briefed that lengthy report, you would note that it doesn’t at all say what Corbett claims…China certainly did not get any naval or aviation technology from the US, although they did from Russia…

    That FAS report itself is extremely light on substance…consisting mostly of nebulous hand waving about things like US participation in China’s research organizations…this is nothing new anywhere in the world of academia, where international collaboration is a must…

    The report also puts up a lot of fluff about how US consumer electronics companies participated in various ventures in China, which obviously benefited themselves first and foremost, otherwise they wouldn’t have bothered…

    I have already talked in some detail upthread about where consumer electronics technology fits in, in the scheme of things…this is mickey mouse stuff that has practically zero value to very technically difficult endeavors like aerospace, and nuclear which are in fact key to military power…

    Nobody is going to give you aerospace and nuclear technology…even if they did, it would be difficult for a technologically lagging country to do anything with it…even that silly report acknowledges that [page 35]…

    Chinese leaders have also come to realize the complexities and difficulties inherent in technology absorption and assimilation — that technology imports alone donot necessarily constitute technological know-how or capabilities in the long-run.

    I have also talked about this in many discussions on this website, because people often bring up the myth of ‘reverse engineering’…you can’t just give someone a piece of hardware and think that they are going to be able to figure out the vast complexities required to understand it, much less build it…

    We are not in the age of simple devices anymore, where you could take a simple early airplane, say, and simply disassemble it and build a knock-off…the last time that really happened was with the Boeing B29 Superfortress heavy bomber, which Stalin wanted to buy from the US, but was rebuffed…instead, he simply appropriated several B29s that had made emergency landings in Russia during the war and ordered the Tupolev design bureau to build an exact copy…

    Even then this was a losing strategy, vigorously opposed by Andrei Tupolev and his designers, because they this piston engine propeller aircraft was already obsolete in the dawning jet age…this task of making an exact copy [even though in many cases better components were already in production in Russia] occupied them for several years, instead of working on what they really wanted to build, which was the jet powered Tu16 that came out in 1952…

    The Tu 16 in flight…the Chinese license built version the Xian H6 is still in operational service with the PLA Air Force…where is the B29 today…?

    But today, such a task would not work with say the Russian S400 air defense missile system…which has been sold to a number of countries, including agreements to manufacture some pieces there…this is how it works in the west also…the F35 is going to have a lot of content manufactured in Japan and other countries…

    The point is that the hardware itself is useless without the knowhow…and China has been concentrating on developing scientific and technical knowhow…that is why they are AHEAD of the US in some key missile technologies for instance, like the long range anti-ship ballistic missiles that are a very real deterrent to the US Navy…

    Nobody gave them that…they had to build it themselves…this idea of technology ‘transfer’ is one of the most persistent canards in the popular imagination and the retarded media that peddles it…the problem is the extremely low level of science education and understanding among the US population…

    • Replies: @d dan
    , @Malla
  320. Malla says:
    @denk

    When uncle sham profess his love, run for your life’

    Uncle Sham created your Mao ruled China.

    How the Far East Was Lost: American Policy and the Creation of Communist China, 1941-1949 Paperback – April 28, 2012
    by Anthony Kubek (Author)

    There are hundreds of footnotes, sources and the author had access to the private papers of General Patrick J. Hurley, our former Ambassador to Nationalist China. At the Hoover War Memorial Library in Stanford University he was able to examine in detail the private diaries and correspondence of General Joseph Stilwell and learn the exact role played by “Vinegar Joe” in the China tragedy. Also, transcripts from the Harry Dexter White Papers at Princeton University library and many other sources.

    In 1920, the Communist movement in Asia was organized after Lenin sent his secretary, Marin, to establish secretly a Chinese Communist Party as a branch of the Communist International. In 1922, the Soviet government sent Adolf Joffe to China on the delicate mission of establishing official diplomatic relations with the internationally recognized Chinese government in Peking, while at the same time arranging for Soviet support of the revolutionary movement of Kuomintang, which aimed at overthrowing the Peking government. Joffe did not meet with success in Peking but met with Sun Yat-sen at Shanghai in January 1923, he was able to arrange an entente between Soviet Russia and the Kuomintang. Joffe returned to Soviet Russia and was succeeded by Leo Karakhan, the foremost Soviet expert in Oriental diplomacy. In 1924 he obtained official recognition of the Soviet Union from the Peking government.

    In Oct. 1927, a major speech before the Chamber of Commerce of the United States, George Bronson Rea outlined the picture of Bolshevism spreading over China. Friction developed between Russia and China over the administration of the Chinese Eastern Railway. The two parties had agreed in the Sino-Soviet agreement in 1924 that it would be a joint administration of the railway as a commercial enterprise. There was also an agreement forbidding the dissemination of propaganda inimical to the political and social institutions of either country. On April 6, 1927 the troops of Chang Tso-lin raided the Soviet Embassy in Peking and discovered documents that abundantly proved the Russians were spreading propaganda and planning to establish Communism in China.

    The Japanese saw this situation very clearly, and Japan to protect her own security, began to take measures to check the flow of the Red tide. The Japanese statesmen understood the Communist threat in the Far East far better than any other nation could have. It was clear to the Japanese that unless bastions of defense were built in Manchuria and Inner Mongolia, Communism would spread all of North China and seriously threaten the security of Japan.

    The United States had its danger zone in the Caribbean, and since the era of Thomas Jefferson, every effort had been made to strengthen the American position and keep foreign nations from establishing naval and military bases that would threaten American security. So Japan regarded Manchuria. But this fact was not recognized by the American Government after the close of WWI. Why?

    Secretary of State Henry L. Stimson directed a long verbal barrage against the Japanese. When FDR became President in 1933, he supported the “Stimson Doctrine” without reservation. It is significant that during the first Cabinet meeting of the Roosevelt Administration, March 7, 1933 the eventuality of war with Japan was carefully considered. On October 5,1937, FDR made a famous address at Chicago, in which he advocated a “quarantine” against aggressor nations. His words of sharp criticism were directed at Japan. He had inaugurated a new policy of pressure that helped drive Americans down the road to war.

    On July 26,1939, notice was given to Japan that after six months the Commercial Treaty of February 21, 1911 would expire. This action was a blow to the national pride of the Japanese.
    Roosevelt wanted to employ economic sanctions against Japan. Ambassador Joseph C. Grew was against this idea so FDR brought into his Cabinet on June 20, 1940, the Secretary of war, Henry L. Stimson who had convinced him of the efficacy of that policy back in January,1933.
    With the arrival of Stimson in the Cabinet, FDR began to forge an economic chain around Japan that foreclosed any hope of understanding between the two countries.

    …to be CONTINUED….

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @denk
  321. Malla says:
    @Malla

    …CONTINUED FROM ABOVE….

    Under these circumstances, Japan was compelled to adopt a new policy. She began to expand to the south in order to control those areas which would supply not only the necessities of life, but also the products essential to the Japanese war effort- notably oil, rubber, tin and adequate foodstuffs.

    On July 25,1941, FDR issued an executive order, effective the next day, freezing all Japanese assets in the United States. In effect, it created an economic blockade of Japan. Our highest military and naval authorities- among them Admiral Harold R. Stark, Chief of Naval Operations and General George C. Marshall, Army Chief of Staff- believed that the freezing order would cause Japan to take last-ditch measures.
    Six days before the order was issued the War Plans Division warned that an embargo on Japan would possibly involve the United States in an early war in the Pacific. Dr. Stanley K. Hornbeck, Advisor on Political Relations to the State Department and Secretaries Morgenthau and Stimson strongly advocated the order.
    When the Japanese Ambassador, Admiral Kichisabura Nomura, called at the Department of State to inquire as to the meaning of the executive order, he was coolly received. Tojo, then Minister of War, regarded the freezing order by the United States as driving Japan into a corner. Oil was vital to Japan, and from now on each fall of the level on oil brought the hour of decision closer. Historian Louis Morton, Chief of the Pacific Section, Department of Army, wrote that America by adopting a program of unrestricted economic warfare, left Japan the embarrassing choice of humiliating surrender or resistance by whatever means lay at hand. He termed the American order of July 26 “the Japanese Pearl Harbor,” suggesting a degree of provocation in excess of what many have been willing to concede.
    President Roosevelt and his advisors seemed unable to understand the realities in the Far Eastern situation. They never understood the fact that Manchuria and Inner Mongolia were danger zones for Japan. Japanese statemen of every party had realized for years the significance of Soviet menace to Japanese security.

    Churchill said, the first time he met Roosevelt, Roosevelt had told him that,“regardless of whether Japan attacked us or not the United States would go to war” At noon on November 25, Secretaries Stimson and Knox met at the White House together with General Marshall and Admiral Stark. The discussion dealt mainly with the Japanese situation concerning the intercepted message fixing the November 29 deadline. The President brought up the event that we were likely to be attacked perhaps as soon as next Monday. The main question was “how we should maneuver into the position of firing the first shot without allowing too much danger to ourselves.”

    Harry Dexter White ( Soviet mole) putting pressure on the Japanese by sending a letter signed “Henry Morgenthau Jr.” to the President Roosevelt on the 24th or 25th of November. In words told of the dire consequences that would come in the wake of any agreement with Japan. Pressure exerted by Communist sympathizers in the Institute of Pacific Relations must also be taken into account when analyzing the reasons for the many rejections of a truce with Japan. On November 25, Professor Owen Lattimore, (Soviet spy) the special advisor to Chiang Kai-shek dispatched an anxious cable to Presidential Assistant Lauchlin Currie ( Soviet Spy) arguing against any agreement between the United States and Japan on a modus vivendi.

    When Congressman Martin Dies, Chairman of the House Committee on Un-American Activities, became insistent on digging Reds out of the Administration, he was summoned to the White House, where Roosevelt , in fury, told him, “several of my best friends I’ve got are Communist, You’re all wrong about this….” Roosevelt, indeed, acted as if some of them were. After Earl Browder the head of the Communist Party in the United States had been sent to the penitentiary for passport fraud in making a clandestine trip to Moscow, Roosevelt pardoned him as a contribution to “national unity,” now that Russia was our ally. Browder boasted, in his testimony before the Tydings Committee in 1950 that in 1942 and 1943 he reported to Roosevelt, and that the information he relayed to the White House had an important in reshaping American policy in China.

    Besides, Roosevelt seems to have had an exalted opinion of himself as a diplomat. Frequently his ambassadors were by-passed by his direct personal diplomacy. During the Beaverbrook-Haaiman Mission in October 1941 Harriman said to Marshal Stalin, “I hope you will feel free to cable President Roosevelt directly on any matters that you consider of importance. President Roosevelt would welcome such messages.” So the groundwork was laid for the personal negotiations between Roosevelt and Stalin that were to cause so much difficulty later on.
    The President had no doubt that he could enroll Stalin as a member of his circle and could lead the Soviet leader along new paths of accommodation. As early as March, 1942, the President in writing to Churchill had said: “I tell you that I think I can handle Stalin personally better than either your Foreign Office or my State Department.” Later Roosevelt told Ross McIntire, his private physician, “If I can convince him [Stalin] that our offer of co-operation is on the square, and that we want to be comrades rather than enemies, I’m betting that he’ll come in. And,” the President added with a grin, “what helps a lot is that Stalin is the only man I have to convince. Joe doesn’t worry about a Congress or a Parliament. He’s the whole works.”

    Roosevelt had little patience with diplomats who were well acquainted with Soviet policy and who warned him against any optimism about establishing cordial Soviet-American relations. Former Governor George H. Earle of Pennsylvania was a Lieutenant Commander in the Navy serving as assistant naval attaché in Turkey. Earle sent frantic dispatches to Washington concerning the alarming situation in that country in regard to Russia. In May, 1944, he flew to Washington to see the President. While waiting in an ante-room in the White House, he met Secretary Forrestal and conveyed his fears of Russia. Within the shadow of the President’s desk, Forrestal told him: “My God, I think this is dreadful. We were all alone over here. Russia can do no wrong. It is perfectly dreadful. They just simply are blind to the situation.” When Earle saw Roosevelt, he said: “Mr. President, the real menace is not Germany, it is Russia.” FDR gave Earle a smile and said: “George, Russia is a nation of 180 million people speaking 120 different dialects. When the war is over she will fly to pieces like a centrifugal machine at high speed.” A short time later, Roosevelt wrote a letter to Earle forbidding him to publish an article concerning his critical views of Russia. Commander Earle was exiled as Governor of Samoa, a remote island in the Pacific, “so I could not talk.”

    Harry Truman sent Marshall to China. On December 15, 1945 his directive is to form a coalition government between the free Chinese and the Communist. Marshall’s entire mission was one of convenience to the Reds. Before he went to China, the Communist occupied a very small portion of China. Their Army numbered less than 300,000 badly equipped troops. When Marshall returned from China to be rewarded by Truman with an appointment as Secretary of State, the Communist -controlled area had greatly increased. The Communist Army had grown from 300,000 badly equipped troops to an Army over 2,000,000 relatively well-equipped soldiers. The testimony of General Marshall corroborates the conclusion that an arms embargo was used in an attempt to force Chiang Kai-shek to admit Communist elements into the Government.

    The Institute of Pacific Relations (IPR) probably more than any other single factor, conditioned out people to abandon the mainland of China to the Communist. When Edward C. Carter became the chief administrator, July 1934, welcomed the USSR as a new member. The American branch of the IPR grew rapidly and prospered, boasting over 1,000 members. The Rockefeller, Carnegie foundations gave millions of dollars. J.P. Morgan, Shell Oil, International Business Machines, British Lever Brothers and many others. The IPR has been an organization whose chief function has been to influence United States public opinion on Far East matters. The Senate Subcommittee has concluded that the IPR has been neither objective nor nonpartisan and that since the mid 1930s, the net effect of the IPR activities on United States public opinion has been pro-Communist and pro-Soviet, and has frequently and repeatedly been such as to serve international Communist Chinese Communist and Soviet interests, and to subvert the interest of the United States. The the Japanese branch of the IPR was used as a spy ring for Russia Communist and the Russian Red Army. Elizabeth T. Bentley a former operator in the underground movement of the American Communist Party , mentioned that her superior, Jacob Golos, referred to the IPR as “…. Red as a rose….”

    It is no longer debatable that Cairo, Teheran, Yalta, Potsdam, and elsewhere the Western World took wrong actions in its wartime and postwar dealings with the U.S.S.R. The Red lava released by these actions has since engulfed the seven hundred million inhabitants of Poland, East Germany, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia, mainland China, North Korea, Vietnam , Cuba etc. These wrong actions gained wide acceptability, if not outright approval, by a controlling percentage of policy-makers, scholars, writers, and other molders of policy and opinion. They had the “wrong thoughts,” about the Soviet Union and Communist China. The wartime activities of the IPR even penetrated the White House when Lauchlin Currie became executive assistant to the President and special advisor on Far Eastern affairs. Currie was responsible for setting up a conference in Washington, on October 12, 1942, between himself Sumner Welles, then Under Secretary of State, and Earl Browder( head of the Communist Party USA) and Robert Miner, then officials of the Communist Party. John T. Flynn made a study of thirty books dealing with the political conditions of China. He found that twenty-three of these books were pro-Communist, seven were anti-Communist. He explains the whole subject with this interesting statement: Every one of the 23 pro-communist books, where reviewed, received glowing approval in the literary reviews…. That is, in the New York Times, the Herald Tribune, the Nation, and the New Republic and the Saturday Review of Literature and every one of the anti-Communist books was either roundly condemned or ignored in the same reviews.

  322. Malla says:
    @Sulu

    Sulu, yeah the USA is great, but why support a war with China? The U.S. Deep State (ZOG) which is going on a warpath with China is the same party which is anti-White America. So why support your enemy, the ZOG in its misadventures?

    • Replies: @Sulu
  323. FB says: • Website
    @antibeast

    Everything you said is COMPLETE NONSENSE…

    The ridiculous ‘Moore’s Law’ has NOTHING to do with military technologies, much less ‘tracking and targeting’ aircraft carriers, which requires radar technology…

    Also the F22 and F35 have NOTHING to do with aircraft carriers, which carry Boeing F/A18 Hornets…

    And, China does not yet have OPERATIONAL hypersonic missiles in service…they do have very capable long range antiship BALLISTIC missiles like the Dong Feng 26, which can hit a ship at up to 4,000 km and would have a speed of about Mach 10, which, while hypersonic, is less than half the speed of an ICBM…

    The DF21 is a smaller, shorter range missile with similar anti-ship capability, which does require a terminal homing capability [usually radar] to let it hit a moving target like a ship…

    While these do fly at hypersonic speeds, like an intermediate range ballistic missile, it is not by definition a hypersonic missile…many missiles going back decades, starting with Scud, were capable of hypersonic speeds [over Mach 5] and also terminal guidance…even the Nazi V2 flew at Mach 5 and was capable of terminal guidance [and even midflight course changes like the Scud which was an evolution of the V2]…

    A true hypersonic missile is by definition one that is able to fly a maneuvering flight path in its entirety, as opposed to a ballistic arc, with just limited maneuvering in the terminal phase…only Russia has operational hypersonic missiles in service as of today…such as the Avangard intercontinental range missile that flies at over Mach 25 and with a range of up to 10,000 km…

    Nonetheless, China’s DF21 and DF26 are formidable weapons that are a real deterrent to the US navy and aircraft carriers…that does not mean that aircraft carriers are useless…they are in fact a very powerful tool, but not necessarily in a naval war against China…they are more suitable to mounting a naval blockade to commercial shipping for instance, which would be a real problem for China…

    But the problem with that is that a naval blockade is an act of war and the other side will be justified in retaliating in kind…as we saw with the Iranians seizing that British ship in a tit for tat move…Britain buckled very quickly…and that is an insightful glimpse into the real world limitations of imperialistic strategies like naval blockades and adventurism…

    The situation is indeed that there is very little the US could realistically do against China in terms of military force…but it is not for the silly nonsense you have burped up here…

    • Replies: @antibeast
  324. @Malla

    Um, even the British Raj wasn’t delusional to that level. That map is essentially British Raj, and lands that it wanted to take. That included French Indochina. Notice the name. At least the qing China really had control of those lands on it’s maps and not just lands it wanted to conquer.

    My own prediction, if India and China really have a shooting war without going Nuclear(which is impossible as the losing side would not allow it), India might lose the entire territory on the east side above Bangladesh and below Bhutan.

    Reason is simple, Indian military is only comparable to Chinese Military from the 1980s with a few bought for semi modern hardware. While the Chinese now produces all it’s own equipment and India buys 70% or more.

    There was a funny Indian guy I talked to on Reddit. I asked him why he wouldn’t want to talk seriously with a Chinese guy. He stated that his claims would be met with maps by the Chinese guy. He got pissed off by the maps. So he refuses to talk to any Chinese on Reddit, he just want to continuously make his claims. 😂🤣😂

    I was like, damn. That self denial is almost as good as that anon guy who claims that China doesn’t matter and not a challenge to the USA in the AK blog.

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Malla
  325. antibeast says:
    @FB

    The ridiculous ‘Moore’s Law’ has NOTHING to do with military technologies, much less ‘tracking and targeting’ aircraft carriers, which requires radar technology…

    I am referring to the exponential increase in processing power which greatly enhances the C4ISR capabilities of China’s PLA missile force which includes radar technology. That’s been called the network-centric warfare of the 21st Century.

    http://dodccrp.org/files/Alberts_NCW.pdf

    https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/capabilities/c4isr.html

    Also the F22 and F35 have NOTHING to do with aircraft carriers, which carry Boeing F/A18 Hornets…

    The F-35C Lighting II is a carrier-based fighter jet.

    https://www.f35.com/about/variants/f35c

    The F-35C carrier variant (CV) is the world’s only 5th Generation, long-range stealth strike fighter designed and built explicitly for carrier operations. The U.S. Navy is the largest customer receiving F-35Cs, with the U.S. Marine Corps also planning to acquire the C variant in addition to the F-35B.

    The F-22 is operated by the USAF which could use airbases in South Korea to attack China. But China’s A2/AD also includes anti-aircraft missile defense systems such as the S-400. My last post included the F-22 just to illustrate the max. range of the possible jet fighters that the US military could deploy against China.

    https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/south-korea-confirms-arrival-of-f-22-stealth-fighters-for-joint-drill-with-us

    One last thing, China could mass produce those missiles while the USA can’t mass produce aircraft carriers, at a cost-advantage of maybe 10,000 to 1 assuming $10 billion aircraft carrier vs $1 million missiles.

    • Replies: @FB
    , @Jiminy
  326. d dan says:
    @FB

    “The point is that the hardware itself is useless without the knowhow…and China has been concentrating on developing scientific and technical knowhow…
    Nobody gave them that…they had to build it themselves…this idea of technology ‘transfer’ is one of the most persistent canards in the popular imagination and the retarded media that peddles it…the problem is the extremely low level of science education and understanding among the US population…”

    Good post and well said FB. Add the word “forced” to “technology transfer” – and that is how US population see the state of China’s achievements today. Can’t get more idiotic than those “exceptional” minds.

    • Agree: FB
  327. FB says: • Website

    Look FOOL…

    It’s obvious that you like to squawk about things of which you know less than nothing…those silly buzzwords bandied about in the fanboy media like C4blabla mean absolute zilch…you have no clue about how these things work, or what they do, and neither does that clown media that you link to…so I suggest you stop jumping in my face…

    The F35 is NOT presently deployed on any aircraft carrier…and still has lots of big problems…

    Also your maximum ‘range’ numbers are complete nonsense…how does the pilot get back when he runs out of fuel…?

    That’s why combat radius is the relevant figure, not any kind of silly ‘maximum range’…the F/A 18 has a combat radius of only about 500 nautical miles, which is not that much, certainly not enough for USN carriers to get within striking distance of Chinese mainland…the F22 is about the same, not the thousands of km you pulled out of your silly ass…

    And it makes no difference what hardware the US has in South Korea…the country would never allow for US aircraft to attack China from its territory…that’s just kindergarten level stuff…

    Not to mention that any aircraft violating North Korean airspace will be promptly shot down…

    I suggest you actually learn something before being contentious here…

    • Replies: @antibeast
  328. FB says: • Website
    @antibeast

    My comment 331 is for you…

  329. Miro23 says:
    @Malla

    Here’s the bottom line, there is a major agit-prop campaign under way against China…the more China rises, ….and even more important, to prevent them from seeing the basic fact that ordinary Chinese folks are only living better and better…

    Yes I know, I totally oppose this targeting of China. And I am impressed with the planned fashion of development of the Chinese Govt. It’s crazy how, some years back it was all cool, America helped China into the WTO and all that. And now suddenly all this anti-PR China propaganda.

    Kissinger (1972) opened the way for the outsourcing of US manufacturing to China / de-industrialization of the US. US corporations made record profits and China got tremendous economic development.

    Probably the quid pro quo, was that the Chinese allow the ZioGlob/CIA to get it’s hooks into China (media, banking, special interest deals, communications, politics) which hasn’t worked. The Washington Post, The Guardian and Google are blocked in China, The talk about access to their closely guarded $21 trillion capital market are constant on/off but going nowhere. They see the onshore and offshore capital markets as theirs by right. US special interests have no traction whatsoever with the CPC political structure.

    Basically they are protecting their sovereignty.

    Kissinger (2020) leading light of the current NWO is probably particularly angry that they won’t do the deal (for example NSA back doors in Huawei products and removal of electronic jamming in the S.China Sea) and are blocking his pet “destruction of Iran” project. The Chinese ignore the US international trade embargo on Iran, are Iran’s principal trade partner and are engaged in development projects + a military partnership.

    Conclusion that the CPC doesn’t give a toss about Kissinger’s Zio/Glob NWO. Hence the major anti-China agitprop.

  330. @Sulu

    If you don’t think the U.S. Military is the most powerful on the planet you are clueless. About three or four of the posters here sound like Chinese assets trying to desperately deflect from the fact that the Chinese Navy isn’t shit. I can’t take any of you paid trolls with any degree of seriousness.

    The most powerful military in the world and winning a regional war on someone’s home turf are two different things. You don’t sound like someone who knows much about Chinese military. Ever heard about 055 class destroyer? YJ-12 and YJ-18 anti-ship missiles? ASBM? DF-17 hypersonic missile? DF-100 strategic supersonic cruise missile? If there is a war between China and the U.S., it will be fought over the Taiwan Strait or South China Sea. Both are pretty much China’s home turf. If U.S. couldn’t win a war on China’s turf in Korea and Vietnam when its GDP was 40% of the world’s, expecting it to win a war on China’s turf now is quite unrealistic.

    • Replies: @FB
  331. FB says: • Website
    @last straw

    And speaking of Korea…

    At first the US and its allies had a fairly easy go of pushing back the North Korean forces, and almost completely occupied North Korea…

    However, once U.S. units neared the Yalu River and the frontier between North Korea and China, the Chinese intervened and drastically changed the character of the war.

    [The US] Eighth Army was decisively defeated at the Battle of the Chongchon River and forced to retreat all the way back to South Korea.

    The defeat of the U.S. Eighth Army resulted in the longest retreat of any U.S. military unit in history.

    But the Chinese just kept coming, practically sweeping the US and UN forces right off the peninsula…

    The Chinese broke through the U.S. defenses despite U.S. air supremacy and the Eighth Army and U.N. forces retreated hastily to avoid encirclement.

    The Chinese offensive continued pressing U.S. forces, which lost Seoul, the South Korean capital. Eighth Army’s morale and esprit de corps hit rock bottom, to where it was widely regarded as a broken, defeated rabble.

    Eighth United States Army, Korean War

    • Replies: @Smith
  332. @FB

    And btw moron, China’s seat on the Security Council was held by Taiwan [Republic of China] until 1971…against US opposition…a sign of declining American power, even 50 years ago…

    Touche!

  333. @Miro23

    I thought FDI came from Taiwan, HK and other Asian countries like Japan. American FDI into China was very small in comparison?

    What USA provided was no more sanctions and a market. China did the same as American companies that sells in China posted record profits.

    Isn’t that the deal?

    I doubt the Chinese would OK a deal where they commit suicide and give control of their country to the likes of Kissinger.

    • Replies: @Miro23
  334. antibeast says:
    @FB

    Sorry but you’re wrong. C4ISR stands for Command, Control, Communications, Computing, Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance. That’s all the Pentagon talks about these days: “systems-of-systems”, “sensor-fusion”, “artificial intelligence”, “network-centric warfare”, etc. China recently completed the Beidou-3 network of satellites and ground stations which form part of the PLA’s C4ISR. That’s the future of warfare as driven by Information Technology. Here’s a video describing China’s Beidou-3, how it’s different and why it’s better than the USA’s GPS:

    Also, you forgot about China’s DF-17 and DF-100. In addition to its intermediate-range ballistic missiles with terminal homing capability, namely: the DF-21d anti-ship “carrier-killer” missile and the DF-26 “variable warhead” missile, China has the DF-17 which uses a hypersonic glide vehicle and the DF-100 which uses a ramjet engine. Here’s a video of China’s test of a hypersonic missile with a ramjet engine:

    Lastly, China designed the J-20 to be a long-range strike bomber/air interceptor to implement its A2/AD strategy which will be used to attack high-value targets such as AWACS. Here’s a video of an American talking about China’s J-20:

    Not to mention China’s submarine fleet which is the largest in the world. So the poster here bragging about how “powerful” the US Navy is because of its aircraft carriers don’t know jack shit about China’s A2/AD strategy which renders US aircraft carriers obsolete in the South China Sea.

    • Replies: @FB
  335. denk says:
    @Malla

    You miss the point of course,

    The more they change things, the more it remains the same.
    fukus have been using the Indians as cannon fodders and cheap labors since time immermorial.

    As for the role of JFK,

    Nehru himself was subjected to unremitting pressure when he was in the U.S. More U.S. aid was used as bait to lure Nehru into the trap of a protracted India-China war, which can only result in further detriment to India, China and the cause of all oppressed people.

    SINCE NEHRU’S VISIT

    Since the Indian Prime Minister left the shores of the U.S. there have been only rare intervals in which there has been a let up in the war fever fanned by the Indian bourgeoisie and its agent Nehru. For a long time Nehru played the role of moderator between left and right in the Indian-China border dispute, cautioning the extremist elements of the bourgeoisie in Parliament, and repudiating suggestions for offensive operations by his military advisers.

    https://www.workers.org/marcy/cd/samwith/within/pcnvrt05.htm

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Malla
  336. denk says:
    @Malla

    Uncle Sham created your Mao ruled China.

    ‘China, 1945-49:
    Intervened in a civil war, taking the side of Chiang Kai-shek against the Communists, even though the latter had been a much closer ally of the United States in the world war. The U.S. used defeated Japanese soldiers to fight for its side. The Communists forced Chiang to flee to Taiwan in 1949.’

    http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/US_Interventions_WBlumZ.html

  337. Jiminy says:
    @antibeast

    Clearly while the US has poured billions into stealth it has dropped the ball on a lot of other technologies, so it has to play catch up. Also, to give an f22 or f35 extra range would require fitting of external fuel tanks which then diminish the stealth benefits.

    • Replies: @antibeast
  338. FB says: • Website
    @antibeast

    Look Idiot, stop wasting my time…ramjet engines have been in use for more than 50 years…the SA6 SAM used ramjets in 1970…so do many others…

    Now get lost…you know diddly squat, except what you read in the retarded media…

  339. antibeast says:
    @Jiminy

    Clearly while the US has poured billions into stealth it has dropped the ball on a lot of other technologies, so it has to play catch up. Also, to give an f22 or f35 extra range would require fitting of external fuel tanks which then diminish the stealth benefits.

    Yes, FB pointed that out in his last post on the combat radius of the F-22 with and without external fuel tanks. But like you said fitting the F-22 with external fuel tanks defeats the purpose of stealth. So the only other option left is for the F22 or F35 to do mid-air refueling BEFORE they reach their maximum range so they could fly back to their nearest airfield or aircraft carrier, as the case may be.

    If FB is right that the F-35C is still not combat ready as of today, then NONE of the carrier-based aircraft that the US Navy can field today on its aircraft carriers are fifth-generation stealth jet fighters. So assuming US aircraft carriers somehow survived unscathed from wave upon wave of China’s DF-21D/DF-26/DF-17/DF-100 missile attacks and assuming the US Navy was able to “park” those aircraft carriers close to China’s borders in order to stage sorties of F/A18 Hornets against land targets along China’s coast, those F/A18 Hornets will be intercepted BEFORE they even reach China’s borders by J-20s which have a maximum range of 3,400km. After surviving the J-20s, the F/A18 Hornets will then face the S-400s upon reaching China’s borders. By the way, the J-20s are fifth-generation stealth jet fighters while the F/A18 Hornets are fourth-generation+ non-stealth jet fighters.

    Here’s a video of the J-20s:

    • Replies: @Jiminy
    , @FB
  340. Malla says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    Um, even the British Raj wasn’t delusional to that level. That map is essentially British Raj, and lands that it wanted to take. That included French Indochina. Notice the name. At least the qing China really had control of those lands on it’s maps and not just lands it wanted to conquer.

    Very true, It is British Raj without the British. Akhand Bharat is Raj controlled by us superior Hindus (who had civilization 10000000 BC in some made up ‘yuga’ and were flying about in vimanas [airplanes] raping Sanskrit slokas [verses] all around and throwing chapatis at the lowly non Indian Mlecha barbarians) not those mlecha barbarian White monkey British.

    Even the British Raj never posted any troops in some of the regions contested by India with China. they were on paper only. That was because of the fear of Russia (Great game struggle took place in Afghanistan as well to a lessor extent in Tibet) where the Brits were scared Russia (who had colonized Central Asia) may come down to try to get some warm water port. That is they wanted buffer zone regions on the borders of British India. Also to put some kind of pressure on Qing China from the West. It was post 1947 India which actually tried taking all that territory.

    My own prediction, if India and China really have a shooting war without going Nuclear(which is impossible as the losing side would not allow it), India might lose the entire territory on the east side above Bangladesh and below Bhutan.

    That part of India should never have been part of India anyways, the North East. The people there are similar to Tibetans in the Northern areas and South East Asians in the lower areas, the natives I mean. India went in like a bully and forced them into the Union. Even back stabbed the benevolent Buddhist King of Sikkim and took over Sikkim before Sikkim could get a UN membership, Bhutan had by then and had thus escaped the net. The Mongoloid (Tibetan types) and Mongoloid Australoid (Burmese types) natives there face the threat of being overwhelmed demographically by the Caucasoid-Australoid hybrid desi populations not only of India but of Muslim Bangladeshis who keep on coming in. Bangladesh’s Chittagong Hill Tract regions bordering Myanmar made up of Buddhist Mongoloid-Australoid natives is itself getting overwhelmed by Bangladeshi Caucasoid-Australoid Bengali majority.
    A Burmese guy was blogged about this
    http://hlaoo1980.blogspot.com/2013/04/genocide-of-buddhists-in-bangladesh.html
    Hla Oo’s Blog: Islamic Genocide of Buddhists In Bangladesh – Part 1
    http://hlaoo1980.blogspot.com/2013/04/islamic-genocide-of-buddhists-in.html
    Hla Oo’s Blog: Islamic Genocide of Buddhists In Bangladesh – Part 2
    http://hlaoo1980.blogspot.com/2017/04/long-running-buddhist-genocide-in.html
    The Chittagong hill tracts region of Bangladesh want independence from the Bangladeshi government in Dhaka. Islamic Bangladesh has been carrying out a genocide of native Buddhists and even Christians. Basically that is where the Mongoloid world meets the Caucasoid world.

    The Nagas in the region even went to the UN to appeal for their freedom from Indian Imperialism.
    In 1949 the Naga people appealed to the United Nations for protection from Indian invasion. The Appeal stated that ‘during the British Rule in India there was no outside interference in any way in the form of our existence and in the system of our administration which was entirely managed by our people’.
    And again:
    ‘The real fact about our relations with India is that she was unknown to us until the other day, when the British withdrew from our border. We can understand that India is badly in want of land…but at the same time we do not consider that our freedom, the smallness of our country and its geographical contiguity with India’s border constitute an obligation on our part to submit our independence and the means of our existence in favour of her landless and starving millions’

    It is reported that in July 1955, India had appealed to Burma for help in crushing the Naga headhunters, who have established their own republic on the border between the two countries. Indian troops and policemen have been authorized to shoot to kill in their campaign against the headhunters (3), and there has been severe fighting. In March 1956 it was officially reported that fifteen Nagas had been killed in clashed with Indian troops (4). The Nagas maintain that they are fighting for their independence.

    (2) – Hindustan Times of 12th July, 1952
    (3) – The New York Times of 26th July, 1955
    (4) – The Times of 22nd March, 1956. A Naga member of the Central Indian Parliament recently stated that the troops sent to quell the uprising have burned four fifths of the Naga villages and have treated the rebels with excessive severity.

    Reason is simple, Indian military is only comparable to Chinese Military from the 1980s with a few bought for semi modern hardware. While the Chinese now produces all it’s own equipment and India buys 70% or more.

    Unfortunately chest thumping and gungho is huge in the Indian population, deep state and armed forces. Same with Pakistan as well. Recently I was seeing a Pakistani army guy saying how they will take Kashmir with ease. It is a South Asian trait. Chest thump and then run when the shit hits the fan and things do not go according to fantasy.

    Check this out

    India Stronger than China: US Study made by Homo buffoonous Abhishek Shukla
    Some dumbass American study (Harvard Kennedy School in Massachusetts) claimed how India has an advantage over China in the Himalayas. The Americans have realised how to influence India. Stroke Indian ego and arrogance. Talk about Indian talent, India becoming a superpower and the world will FINALLY bow down to superior Indians and we Indians will go batshit crazy and do anything they want from us.
    In the video (in Hindi but you can figure out some things as slides are in English) he claims how China would have a problem facing India in the Himalayas, because China will not be able to get supplies in the sparely populated Himalayas while India will be close to populated areas and will not have logistical problems, how the Western Command of the Chinese forces are stretched out as they have no not only keep the Tibetans down but have to have some forces facing Russia (LOL) unlike India which can concentrate on this region with armed forces. What this buffoon forgets is India too faces a two side war, we have to keep forces facing Pakistan. At 6:00 minutes in the video he talks how we have more forward bases (muh bases) than China and China depends on a sole railway connection to these bases, which we can destroy and thus screw the PLA supply system. He also talks about (12:04 mins) India putting diplomatic pressure on Russia go get them on our side. (LOL). Also because of the high altitude, thinner oxygen in the skies above Tibet, Chinese planes will not be able to take maximum weapons payload and fuel. And somehow magically our planes will be able to?

    Even the baffoonous Indian media is gone apeshit on this. This is in English.

    India-China Forces Comparison: Harvard Studies Suggests India’s Strategic Edge Over China

    There was a funny Indian guy I talked to on Reddit…….So he refuses to talk to any Chinese on Reddit, he just want to continuously make his claims. 😂🤣😂

    Unfortunately India is one brainwashed echo chamber even of we are a democracy and a free press. Me thinks WW3 may start from here, why is Mr. Escobar so obsessed with the South China Sea? Even a fellow Indian poster here Graham(G64) was warning China into entering the shitshow that is the Indian subcontinent politics including Pakistan. The Brits eventually realized what they had conquered, realised the headache about the politics of this place and eventually scrammed back to their islands without a major fight.They fought the Wehrmacht and the Imperial Japanese Navy but that was preferable than batshit crazy South Asian politics.

  341. Miro23 says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    What USA provided was no more sanctions and a market.

    The US elite also allowed most of US manufacturing to decamp to Asia to get record profitability for themselves (US elite). The Chinese were very remarkably able to take this vast opportunity. They learnt skills, got 100% serious about mass STEM education, developed infrastructure and now for example can efficiently produce most of Apple’s iPhones in Shenzen along with their own world class products.

    I’m no great fan of the Chinese, but you have to respect what they achieved over the space of 50 years. Also respect them for completely shutting out Kissinger’s ZioGlob/CIA crew and ignoring their aggressive demands.

    There is FDI in China from Taiwan and Hong Kong, but it’s their own business. As to the financing;

    In 1994, the Chinese government established three more banks, each of which is dedicated to a specific lending purpose. These policymaking banks include the Agricultural Development Bank of China (ADBC), the China Development Bank (CDB), and the Export-Import Bank of China.

    The specialized banks have all conducted initial public offerings (IPOs) and have varying degrees of ownership by the public. Despite these IPOs, the banks are still majority owned by the Chinese government.

    https://www.investopedia.com/articles/economics/11/chinese-banking-system.asp

    So they also keep this in house.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  342. Smith says:
    @FB

    And one paragraph later.

    General Ridgway forcefully restored Eighth Army to combat effectiveness over several months. Eighth Army slowed and ultimately halted the Chinese advance at the battles of Chipyong-ni and Wonju. It then counter-attacked the Chinese, re-took Seoul, and drove to the 38th parallel, where the front stabilized.

    When General Ridgway replaced General of the Army Douglas MacArthur as the overall U.N. commander, Lieutenant General James Van Fleet assumed command of Eighth Army. After the war of movement during the first stages, the fighting in Korea settled down to a war of attrition. Ceasefire negotiations were begun at the village of Panmunjom in the summer of 1951, and they dragged on for two years. During the final combat operation of the war, Lieutenant General Maxwell D. Taylor (promoted to general 23 June 1953) commanded the Eighth Army. When the Military Demarcation Line was finally agreed to by the Korean Armistice Agreement, South Korea and North Korea continued on as separate states.

    How was this even possible? “forcefully restored” a disorganized rabble in a matter of “several months”, actually performed counter-offensive while the chinks were overwhelming them?

    This seems fucking unreal until you start to notice there’s still a South Korea today, with a pop of 50 million people.

    So what happened there? Chinks’s mercy? US somehow getting shit together in its direst times? Like in the movies?

    Whatever happened, I’m glad NVA was decisive in dealing in the US, and it wasn’t entirely reliant on the chinks for geo-political moves like the KPA.

    If it turns out that chinks really had a secret dealing with the US to keep South Korea, I wonder how the koreans (North and South) would actually think.

    • Replies: @FB
  343. Malla says:
    @denk

    Oh my God. workers.org, marxist.org, salty leftists who could not believe that Indian never went Commie, India was so important in their scheme of things even before WW2. And the childish baffoonish view of the world that these reds have, either they are in the Red World or the Imperialist world. Just like George W Bush.Jr “You re either with us or against us’ psychological tactic.

    fukus have been using the Indians as cannon fodders and cheap labors since time immermorial.

    LOL and they could not think of Capitalist Pakistan whose dictator was ready to give bases to the USA against the USSR to be used as cannon fodder. They had to go with the great socialist Indians who were allies with the USSR. Wow, you know how stupid that sounds. Fukus used brown South Asians all right, they used Pakistan against the Soviets in Afghanistan, while their “slaves” were Soviet allies and fchi the People’s Republic of China was the ally of Capitalistic fukus slave Pakistan.
    wow, just wow.

    And you forget the most important person in the Indian political scene, Nehru’s right hand man, Krishna Menon.
    From
    http://src-h.slav.hokudai.ac.jp/publictn/eurasia_border_review/Vol3SI/hershberg.pdf
    Quietly Encouraging Quasi-Alignment:
    US-Indian Relations, the Sino-Indian Border War of 1962, and the Downfall of Krishna Menon
    Pg 127
    “But Menon really strolled on to the world stage in 1952 when he began leading India’s
    delegation to the United Nations. For the next decade he would regularly appear there and at other
    major international gatherings, from Geneva to Bandung, denouncing imperialism, colonialism, and other evils and infuriating Americans and other targets (including many Indians) of his sweeping, bombastic, astringent, moralistic, didactic, often sarcastic and barbed rhetoric. As H.W. Brands noted, Menon “possessed a genius for antagonizing other people—not least other Indians”—one Indian journalist dubbed him “our [John Foster] Dulles,” and a senior foreign office colleague, C.S. Jha, called him “an outstanding world statesman but the world’s worst diplomat,” often “overbearing, churlish, and vindictive.” Eisenhower considered him “a menace and a boor” and “a master of twisting words and meanings of others … governed by an ambition to prove himself the master international manipulator and politician of the age.”15 “Highly strung, highly irascible, and highly intelligent,” Menon exasperated American officials, who found his diplomatic tactics as frustrating as the Soviets’; after dealing with him in New York in the closing months of the Truman Administration to devise a formula to end the Korean War, Dean Acheson complained that Menon was “a master of putting words together so that they conveyed no ideas at all.”16 One American reporter, in 1962, termed the “gray-haired, gray-faced, decidedly violent-looking man” a “master wriggler,” noting that he was a “brilliant lawyer, well-trained in logic.” 17 Yet, despite despising him as a communist appeaser, U.S. officials occasionally found Menon useful, as when he facilitated exchanges with the “Red” Chinese delegation led by Zhou Enlai at the 1954 Geneva conference.18 For the rest of the Eisenhower Administration, even as ties between India and the United States (and Eisenhower and Nehru) warmed somewhat—to the point that Ike visited India near the end of his term—Menon countered American stands on topics ranging from Suez to Hungary to Kashmir to Berlin to decolonization and nuclear weapons, and encouraged his boss’s enhanced ties with the communist

    John F. Kennedy took office in 1961 vowing a fresh outlook toward the Third World and the
    nonaligned movement, moving away from myopic anti-communism and toward broader concerns,
    offering a fresh impetus to better relations between Washington and Nehru. ”

    …snip….
    Pg 128
    Yet the hopes for a rapid Indo-US warming proved overblown. Although, as JFK calculated, Galbraith and Nehru got on well, disagreements persisted over issues ranging from Cuba to Berlin to nuclear disarmament and decolonization—and above all Washington’s alliance with India’s archenemy Pakistan (at least until China bid for the title in late 1962). In November 1961, an attempt to establish a personal rapport between Kennedy and Nehru failed when the Indian visited the United States. Despite devoting much forethought to the trip, which included meetings in Rhode Island and Washington, it fell flat: Nehru seemed tired, diffident, and indifferent to Kennedy’s wit; and his daughter Indira’s dinnertime conversation, rapping US policy and praising Menon, hardly lightened the atmosphere. JFK would later describe the encounter as “a disaster…the worst head-of-state visit I have had.”21 A fortnight after Nehru’s trip, Menon had a predictably discordant conversation with JFK in the White House; the two sparred over Vietnam, disarmament, the United Nations, and Laos, and talking to reporters outside afterwards, the U.S. record dryly noted, the Indian “extensively restated his known views on many issues.”22 The talk hardly elevated Kennedy’s view of Menon,whom he thought “a very adroit and unscrupulous maneuverer who has his finger in every pie”23
    A month later, the gap between Washington and New Delhi was on display for all to see
    when Nehru, pressured by Menon, ordered the forceful seizure of Goa
    after rebuffing repeated U.S. pleas to delay military action to give more time for a political solution (though Washington showed scant appetite for pressuring Lisbon to concede the colony gracefully). ”

    …snip….
    …to be continued…..

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @denk
  344. Malla says:
    @Malla

    …continued…..

    In the run-up to the fall 1962 crisis, Menon remained a major irritant to moving forward in
    relations in U.S. eyes, especially as the defense minister forged a deal with Moscow to obtain Soviet
    MiG-21 fighter-jets.
    In Washington, Democratic Senator Stuart Symington of Missouri tried to eviscerate a foreign aid bill for India, clearly alluding to Menon’s malevolent presence when he asked JFK, “why should we continue to give billions to India despite the steady opposition and criticism, often bordering on contempt, which we have received from the principal leaders of that country?”28″

    …snip….

    By the autumn of 1962, overcoming earlier ambivalence, Menon favored a more aggressive
    policy along the border, in line with the “forward policy”
    Nehru had approved to assert Indian claims and undermine Beijing’s. On September 9-10, with the prime minister away—attending a
    Commonwealth meeting in London, accompanied by Finance Minister Morarji Desai, who often
    opposed Menon’s policies—the defence minister presided over a meeting of senior military officers
    that approved a decision to strike at Chinese positions along the Thagla Ridge, an “eviction
    operation” given the code-name “Leghorn.” In NEFA, unlike in the Aksai Chin and Ladakh, Menon and senior officers felt confident that Indian forces were poised to attack successfully. The decision reflected what turned out to be a grossly inflated opinion of Indian military potential and congruent underestimation of China’s ability and will to use force on a larger scale than the periodic minor skirmishes that had occurred in the preceding few years.34 Exemplifying these views, a Western diplomat learned that Menon, in mid-September, had privately told associates that “Indian forces in [the northeastern border] area were well prepared and in fact anxious, if given the chance, to administer sound trouncing to Chinese,” and had been authorized to act—although Menon, while sensing a “good opportunity for boosting Indian army morale,” had magnanimously vowed to “soft pedal publicity” of the assured victory so as not to make the Chinese lose face.35 Another Western envoy, noting the stepped-up activity on both sides of the undemarcated border during the summer and early autumn of 1962, recalled Menon as being “in a mood of some exaltation about the ability of Indian patrols to take on Chinese opposition on the same scale.”36
    By mid-October, however, after weeks of desultory military and diplomatic exchanges, and
    rising Indian public anticipation of an imminent victory, the Chinese were vigorously—and
    successfully
    —counter-attacking, not only rebuffing Indian attempts to evict them from strategic points but starting to push southwards and vanquishing outmanned Indian outposts. In public Menon stoutly insisted that India would “fight to the last man, to the last gun,” to evict the Chinese from land India claimed was hers.37″

    MALLA: SO YOU SEE DENK (AND ALL OTHER CHILDISH BUFFOONS HERE WHO SIMPLISTICALLY SEE THE WORLD AS 100% HEROIC COMMIES VS EVUL IMPERIALISTS), MENON THE RIGHT HAND MAN OF NEHRU, WAS EXTREMELY ANTI AMERICAN AND ANTI WEST AND EXCITED ABOUT CRUSHING THE CHINESE. Yes it is possible to be anti-West and anti-Chinese. Americans and the British hated Menon, Menon hated the “imperialist” West, but meonon wanted to give People’s Republic of China a sound thrashing for his countries pride.
    It was the 1962 war debacle which led to Menon’s fall and India came closer to Uncle Sham just like it is because of China again that India gets closer to the USA. If not for china, India would have become even more pro-leftist as Menon’s position would have been strong. Thank you China for preventing that.
    The same Menon who gave speeches in the UN against the evul Muricans and West was the defense minister in the 1962 war with China.

    Further from the link at page 125
    The shocking reports of Indian setbacks on the frontier in late October 1962, deflating cocky official predictions and public expectations of a glorious victory to push the Chinese back along the disputed border (especially in the North-East Frontier Agency, or NEFA), prompted widespread calls for Menon’s ouster. Critics, including many in Nehru’s own ruling Congress Party, blamed the defence minister for India’s unpreparedness, listing a range of sins that included inappropriate, faulty, or outdated weapons and gear; intelligence failures; flawed strategy, and misguided priorities in weapons procurements; and excessive sympathies toward the communist and nonaligned worlds that were failing to rally to India’s side. Under heavy pressure, Nehru grudgingly demoted Menon from Defence Minister to a lesser, newly-created post (Minister of Defence Production) on October 31, and a week later, after further protests, evicted him from the Cabinet altogether.7
    Analysts and historians have long recognized that Menon’s political demise removed a key roadblock to improved ties between India and the United States, and in particular opened the door to closer military cooperation, including direct U.S. aid (or even intervention), against a now-common Chinese enemy. “

  345. antibeast says:
    @Miro23

    Kissinger (1972) opened the way for the outsourcing of US manufacturing to China / de-industrialization of the US. US corporations made record profits and China got tremendous economic development.

    Nope. All Kissinger did was to win the PRC over to the US side against the Soviet Union in exchange for diplomatic recognition. Three decades later, China joined the WTO due to the greed of Wall Street globalist elites who wanted access to China’s market as well as outsource their manufacturing to China. By that time, China’s low-cost export-oriented manufacturing industries were already well-established by East Asian investors who went in two decades earlier. After China’s accession to the WTO in 2001, Western MNCs who wanted to sell to China were required to setup JVs and transfer their technology to the JVs from the parent company. That was the most common case of technology transfer. However, this technology transfer from the West to China was limited only to industrial technology for civilian goods not military equipment. Much of China’s defense, space, science, supercomputer industries are homegrown because they were and are subject to Western embargo to this day. Western MNCs also outsourced the manufacturing of consumer goods, industrial commodities and tech products to China but those factories are mostly owned and managed by East Asians who had developed their own industrial technology after becoming industrialized economies pre-WWII (Japan) and post-WWII (HK, Taiwan, South Korea, Singapore). Remember that the West boycotted China after 1989. So China turned to East Asians after that.

    • Replies: @Miro23
  346. Malla says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    That included French Indochina.

    Once correction. This map only includes Burma not Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam (French Empire).
    This map only includes Myanmar/Burma which was part of the British Empire, indeed once part of British India before it was made a separate entity by the British and thus got independence separately.
    But not for long, it may have to join Akhanda Bharat soon.

    There are even more idiotic maps for that as well, maps from Arabia/Iran to Indonesia. Ottoman+British+French+Dutch+More Empire = Hindu Empire of the future. LOL Maybe a World map painted saffron next!!!!. Some crackpot will make some claim that in some ancient Vedic book America was called “Vishnudesha” and China was “Shivadesha’ and were Hindu. LOL.

    Actually a British East India Officer scholar (I forgot who??) was fooled by the Brahmins that Australia was mentioned in the Hindu Holy books. This gentleman fights with his colleagues scholars that we Hindus already knew about Australia. Later it was found to be a scam, to the embarrassment of the officer. LOL

  347. Malla says:
    @denk

    fukus have been using the Indians as cannon fodders and cheap labors since time immermorial.

    Ummm…cheap labour huh? Have not fukus being taking advantage of cheap Chicom labour to keep prices of products down? And raking in big profits for rich fukus Capitalist Corporations? Fat American sits in front of Chinese Chicom worker made telly drinking beer while proud revolutionary Chinese work long hours in factories makin Television for fat American bourgeois. LOL. Is that why Chinese fight Chinese Civil War and make proud Communist Maoist revolution ((secretly Uncle Sham supported))? To make telly for fat yank bourgeois? LOL
    So let me get this straight, rich greedy Capitalists screwed the Unionized working class in the West and make bigger profits by using a Communist country???? Wow, whata world!!! Now I know why Uncle Sham destroyed Japan and backstabbed Generalissimo Chiang.

    Now American deep state, using the brainwashing MSM is telling Americans, “Chinese be evul” through those same Chicom made telly? How did that turn out?

    Fukus tried cheap Indian labour. Indian labour slow, lazy and always complain and corrupt labour unions, so after some time, Fukus companies run away. Recently surrender Modi invite the fukus companies to India, fukus companies run to Vietnam. So Indian labour poor, shit in railway-track but not make telly for fat Murican Capitalist bourgeois. We be the true revolutionary.

    • Replies: @Miro23
  348. Jiminy says:
    @antibeast

    The yanks were toying with smaller, stealthier refuelling drones, (of a very abstract body shape), to mitigate against that very problem.

    • Replies: @antibeast
  349. Miro23 says:
    @antibeast

    All Kissinger did was to win the PRC over to the US side against the Soviet Union in exchange for diplomatic recognition. Three decades later, China joined the WTO due to the greed of Wall Street globalist elites who wanted access to China’s market as well as outsource their manufacturing to China. By that time, China’s low-cost export-oriented manufacturing industries were already well-established by East Asian investors who went in two decades earlier.

    That’s basically right. China joined the WTO in 2001. But by then, off-shoring had been running for some time. The massive profitability was clear and corporate run US wanted all obstacles removed.
    It’s no accident that it was the same Bill Clinton who also presided over the removal of the Glass-Steagall Act 3 years earlier (1999) giving Wall St access to Main St and setting of disastrous speculative frenzies.

    IMO, from the point of view of the interests of US public, Bill Clinton was the probably the worst President they ever elected. A corrupt and sleazy ZioGlob guy there to serve the US elite.

    • Replies: @antibeast
  350. Miro23 says:
    @Malla

    fukus have been using the Indians as cannon fodders and cheap labors since time immermorial.

    Ummm…cheap labour huh? Have not fukus being taking advantage of cheap Chicom labour to keep prices of products down? And raking in big profits for rich fukus Capitalist Corporations? Fat American sits in front of Chinese Chicom worker made telly drinking beer…

    Cheap Chicom labour worked out great – until they decided to get into development. Didn’t want to remain low wage coolies on the ZioGlob plantation forever.

    India couldn’t even organize the low wage coolie part – and never got past the starting gate.

    Ford did invest over $2 billion in India over the last 25 years and makes some excellent products at its Chennai plant, but the expected Indian growth never materialized. 2018 saw 4 million passenger cars old in India vs. 28 million sold in China – with India’s Mahindra now taking 51% share of a new joint venture which may in reality be the first stage of Ford exiting India.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/01/business/ford-india.html.

    • Replies: @Malla
  351. Malla says:
    @FB

    Firstly, let me start by writing that I myself do not believe in this China copying B.S. I know China has great indigenous capabilities and that without know how it is hard to copy such sophisticated technology. Even when Sutton wrote about the USA supplying and building up Soviet capabilities, I know that the Soviets were excellent in their own technology and in some areas far superior to the USA. I have high opinion of the capabilities of the Chinese, Russians and other Soviet and Warsaw pact populations as well as the Communist systems of the USSR or PRC. I may rail against Communism in my posts but the truth is I admire many aspects of the Soviet Union and the People’s Republic of China as well as other communist countries.

    And you do not have to tell me about this China being a copycat nonsense in the USA. India is rife with this B.S.. You see we Indians being an arrogant people could never stomach the Chinese moving past us. Because according to us Indians we are a superior talented people (Read NASCOM publications) . Indians believe the USA is a superpower only because of superior Indian talent, Western countries are rich because of superior Indian talent. Americans and Australians are stupid (that is what Indian software companies and call centers would actually officially teach their staff )What nobody told these buffoons is that the USA was already a superpower and a technology giant before Indians were allowed in large numbers in 1965. Japanese are HARD WORKING yes, very different not intelligent according to Indians. LOL. If we Indians become hard working like Japanese,we will rule the world, that is the mantra here. As if there is something in our genes. That is one reason why Indians support the USA over China, USA is superpower due to Indian talent. China becoming a Technology giant without Indian talent is shocking to most of us Indians. They do not like this. China vs USA is according to them stupid chinkys vs Indian Talent. Also the USA has allowed Indians into their country and by handwork and by office politics, mostly office politics, Indians have risen to CEO positions in most companies. China has not allowed that, Indian immigration that is, that is one more reason why the USA is and will always be, more popular here compared to China.

    For example I have been receiving a lot of messages that 90% of Microsoft, NASA etc… are staffed with Indians.
    https://scroll.in/article/927193/fact-check-are-58-of-nasa-employees-indian
    This is actually only 58% claim, I have seen claims upto 90% of NASA etc.. are Indians.
    This is so believed here, that our MPs have said this on the floor of our Parliament. Homo Baffoonus Indicus.
    https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/36-of-scientists-at-NASA-are-Indians-Govt-survey/articleshow/2853178.cms

    You can read more of this phenomenon here
    https://www.quora.com/What-percentage-of-NASA-employees-are-Indian

    But this phenomenon is a result of a mindset, of the “super talented intelligent” Indian population as against “dumb” Whites/goras, chinkys, negroes, Arabs etc…

    Also many Indians consider the Chinese to be a “robot like emotionless, brainless people” following Emperor and now Communist. Ironically after reading some comments here it seems the Chinese think the same about the Japanese!!! What Indians think about Chinese, Chinese think about Japanese. LOL. Indian seems to be to China what China is to Japan.
    Indians on the other hand are “free running, supreme talented, masters of themselves, wild people, oozing talent and genius” (Also most civilized, all civilizations came from India) unlike “robotic” Chinese. Chinese have “no originality”. White people have “no originality”, only Indians have originality. This is the opinion here among the masses. That is why “the Chinese copy and reverse Engineer” B.S. is so prevalent here.

    For example

    Gravitas Plus | Dear China, stop COPYING!
    These above are from the channel WION, now before you start calling this channel nutcase, remember WION is the talk piece channel of the Indian deep State. If you know what the Indian deep State or Govt thinks,you gotta watch WION. That China reverse engineers everything and have nothing original of their own is a DEEP BELIEF of people in the highest echelons of the Indian Government including some top people in our Military.

    Russia Suspends s400 supply to China|China copying Russian technology|s 400 missile system in action.
    Such above videos are very common here.
    Homo Baffoonous Indicus. Very common.

    I will discuss that article by Corbett later.

    • Thanks: FB
    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
    , @denk
  352. Malla says:
    @Miro23

    Yes doing business in India is not very easy. Unless they improve worker productivity, infrastructure, the attitude of the common people etc… all of Modi’s Make in India, Bake in India, Skill India, Atmabirhar Bharat (Self Sufficient India) will all fail. It is very hard to do business here and very hard to exit as well. The Indian Govt will blood suck you and screw you over before exiting. Look what happened to the Japanese company Docomo. They had a venture with TATA as well.
    The truth is Indians are very anti-foreigner and miserly and cannot accept a foreigner taking even a dollar out of the country, may they be Americans or Chinese or Japanese or German.

    My that post was a jab at denk who was talkin about Indians being used as slaves. That is all. I wrote that in jest.

    You are right, it may be possible, (JUST A POSSIBILITY) the Americans maybe wanted a Communist China (destroyed Japan, back stabbed KMT, Rockefeller forcing a reluctant Stalin to bring about a 100% mainland China) so that the elites could use China in the future. But it seems somehow China under Xi eventually rebelled/fooled the bankers/elites and maybe hence the current shitshow.

  353. antibeast says:
    @Jiminy

    The yanks were toying with smaller, stealthier refuelling drones, (of a very abstract body shape), to mitigate against that very problem.

    Really? That looks like a band-aid solution to the problem of range for the F-35 which maxes out at 2,200km, far less than the J-20’s 3,400km. Here’s an article comparing the two fifth-generation aircrafts:

    https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/j-20-vs-f-35-america-s-new-stealth-jet-isn-t-the-answer-to-balancing-china-s-mighty-dragon-in-the-pacific

    The rapid modernisation of China’s People’s Liberation Army (PLA) Air Force and of the aerial warfare assets of other branches of the country’s armed forces has brought about a shift in the balance of power over the skies of the Asia-Pacific which has been viewed highly unfavourable by the United States and its Western partners, which previously retained undisputed military dominance of the region. Alongside acquisition of state of the art air defence platforms such as the S-400 with advanced counter-stealth capabilities and a series of increasingly capable anti aircraft missiles such as the PL-15, perhaps the most symbolic acquisition representing China’s emergence as a peer competitor to the U.S. in terms of the quality of its aerial warfare assets is the induction of the country’s first stealth fighter, the Chengdu J-20, into service in 2017. The J-20 is a twin engine fifth generation air superiority fighter – fulfilling an analogous role to the American F-22 Raptor in U.S. service – and is the first and only fighter of its generation to be successfully developed outside the United States. The fighter combines the benefits of a high end air superiority airframe – namely a heavy and powerful radar and high speed, manoeuvrability, operational altitude and weapons payload – with the strengths of fifth generation technologies – foremost among which are a radar evading stealth profile and radar absorbent coatings, active electronically scanned array radar systems and next generation electronic warfare and avionics systems. The J-20 also includes a number of technologies not found on earlier fifth generation designs such as the F-22 including a distributed aperture system for improved situational awareness – with new technologies continuing to be integrated as the rate of production continues to grow.

    According to the article, there are only TWO(2) fifth-generation fighter jets in production in the world today: F-35 (USA) and J-20 (China). Without the F-35C, the US Navy does not have any fifth-generation stealth aircraft that can survive being intercepted by the J-20 which is armed with VLRAAM PL-15s with a range of up to 300km.

    “I am see you but you can’t see me means you’re dead.”

  354. antibeast says:
    @Miro23

    That’s basically right. China joined the WTO in 2001. But by then, off-shoring had been running for some time. The massive profitability was clear and corporate run US wanted all obstacles removed.
    It’s no accident that it was the same Bill Clinton who also presided over the removal of the Glass-Steagall Act 3 years earlier (1999) giving Wall St access to Main St and setting of disastrous speculative frenzies.

    Don’t forget NAFTA signed by Clinton in 1993 which decimated the auto and consumer goods manufacturing industries in the USA.

    IMO, from the point of view of the interests of US public, Bill Clinton was the probably the worst President they ever elected. A corrupt and sleazy ZioGlob guy there to serve the US elite.

    Don’t forget his wife too. They’re partners in crime.

    • Replies: @Malla
  355. FB says: • Website
    @Smith

    Hello Monkey…

    You are assuming that you *KNOW* the strategic objectives of the Chinese army in Korea after they pretty much destroyed the US Eighth Army and practically swept the imperialists right off the Korean Peninsula…

    That is again a masterstroke of *MONKEY INTELLIGENCE* …so we will naturally be taking you very very seriously from now on, since no mere mortal could possibly divine the intentions of the enemy with such amazing precision…

    However, from what we do know in hindsight…the Chinese were not interested in taking over South Korea…they only wanted to keep north Korea from being swept off the face of the Earth and for the dividing line to stay at the 39’th parallel…

    As for the Eighth being reconstituted under General Ridgway, that has happened dozens of times in modern war…the Soviet army in WW2 reconstituted many armies that were pretty much wiped out, so did the Germans…

    Perhaps if you actually *KNEW SOMETHING* about military matters, instead of relying on your god-given monkey sense, you might think twice before making a total retard of yourself here…

    • Replies: @Smith
  356. @Miro23

    You give way, way too much credit to the US for the rise of China. We only provided a market. Check out China’s GDP back in the early 2000s, and the conditions it had to sign just to get into the WTO compared to other members. China’s rise has very little to do with the USA. Especially after 2008.
    I could even argued that China has risen despite all the efforts of USA in the last 12 years and especially the last 3 years. About iPhone, they are done by foxconn, and still only responsible for final assembly. The phones are not made in China.

  357. @Malla

    Malla, in my honest opinion, the only roadblock for India is actually the Indian govt and politicians.

    Ex: in HK, people can get a business license in the same day. In India, it can take longer than 10 years.

    This is why india never became the new factory of Asia after China.

    This confirms my opinion that elites of a country can 100% affect the course of a country. Doesn’t matter what the national avg IQ is.

    • Replies: @Malla
  358. Malla says:
    @antibeast

    Don’t forget his wife too.

    Hilary, the Killary is far worse than Bill Clinton. She went to Haiti, poorest country in the Americas and with her Clinton foundation and an ex Haitian President, looted out that country after the earthquake. After the death of Gaddafi, she laughed like a demon. Many folks voted for Trump, just for the reason that they did not want that witch bitch as President.

  359. FB says: • Website
    @antibeast

    Look, I wish you would try to *ask intelligent questions* instead of repeating a lot of nonsense that you see floating around in the retarded media…

    I have already made this point many many times…the people who write about this stuff in the popular ‘science’ and ‘technology’ media have absolutely NO scientific knowledge or professional credentials whatsoever…they simply repeat the nonsense they are told by various publicists working for the defense industry, and have no proper scientific education to tell what is plausible and what is not…

    The buzzword ‘fifth generation’ is completely meaningless…it is just a gimmick dreamed up by PR people in the US defense industry in order to create hype among the uneducated and clueless public, so that these companies, like Boeing and Lockheed, can get massive amounts of taxpayer cash for completely unreal and unscientific stuff like so-called ‘stealth’…

    It’s a magic money machine, based on parlor trickery, and that’s all…

    I have covered this ‘stealth’ nonsense on this website many many times in basic technical terms that are easily understandable to the layman…here we go again…

    The basics of detecting a flying aircraft by radar, which is used millions of times each day by air traffic control, is by means of shooting a radio wave that will REFLECT, ie bounce back to the radar, and thus it is seen [detected] by the radar and shows up on the operator’s radar scope as a blip…

    The idea of ‘stealth’ is to reduce the amount of waves reflected back by the flying aircraft, thus making it harder to see…there are obviously TWO ways that can happen in the physical world…either the aircraft simply ABSORBS all those radio waves, or it bounces them back AWAY from the radar in the opposite direction…

    Neither of these two strategies is easy or even practical…absorbing radio waves is theoretically possible, but it would require an extremely THICK layer of special material…I won’t get into the specifics of the type of material that could do this, but for people like myself that have actually handled the skin of the Lockheed F117 Nighthawk aircraft, I can tell you that it is a very thick and heavy, *rubbery* skin, that actually weighs more than the underlying aircraft structure, which is made using very lightweight composite materials…

    Since aircraft must be LIGHTWEIGHT in order to fly in the first place, adding a lot of weight is defeating the basic purpose of a FLYING MACHINE in the first place…

    [MORE]

    That’s why people say ‘if pigs could fly’…pigs are very very heavy, while birds are quite amazingly light for their size, having hollow bones, lightweight feathers etc…

    The *other* strategy is to bounce the radar waves off in opposite directions, instead of back to the radar dish…this too is physically possible [to some extent] and is obviously better than creating a heavy flying pig…

    But this too is extremely difficult because it involves shapes that are not going to have very very bad *AERODYNAMICS*

    Let’s review some very basic physics here about waves and how they are reflected…most people would remember this from middle school physics *had they been paying attention at the time…*

    The basic LAW of wave reflection is that the angle of reflection ALWAYS equals the angle of incidence…it can NEVER be anything else…

    Here we see what happens when a wave hits a FLAT surface…it bounces off in ONE DIRECTION ONLY…it cannot go in any other direction due to the laws of physics…

    The same is true for a curved surface…only now, it goes off in EVERY POSSIBLE DIRECTION because the curved surface is like an infinite amount of small flat surfaces, each and every one of them at *a DIFFERENT angle…*

    Now that should make clear the very fundamental idea that if you have CURVED surfaces, your aircraft is going to be reflecting radio waves in ALL DIRECTIONS, including right back at the radar dish…

    Now if you look at any bird…please show me one that is completely FLAT…

    Airplanes are just like birds…they MUST have curved surfaces…so right away we have a big problem with our plan to bounce radio waves off in the opposite direction, now don’t we…?

    BUT…scientists being scientists said, ‘maybe we can build an airplane shape with a lot of FLAT surfaces’…this is the result…

    Lockheed F117 stealth fighter in flight

    Now this is quite the technical achievement…it really DOES work…BUT with some very severe LIMITATIONS…

    The most obvious limitation is that it does not look like it’s going to fly very well, with all those flat plates and sharp edges…for the simple reason that the physics of aerodynamics tells us that FLAT surfaces and edges cause a lot of disruptive disturbances in flowing air, which is why you don’t see airplanes that look like flying barn doors…

    And this is what happened to this particular flying barn door in Serbia in 1999…

    Canopy of F-117 shot down in Serbia in March 1999 at the Museum of Aviation in Belgrade

    BUT now…many years later, we now supposedly have ‘stealth’ aircraft with plenty of nice curved surfaces that are going to fly very nicely…

    Lockheed F35 in flight

    And this airplane is even more ‘stealthy’ than the barndoor F117, despite having all those beautiful CURVES all over the place…?

    Why of course it is…just like the Moon is really made of blue cheese…don’t people realize that the LAWS of physics can be changed, as needed…?

    Now this entire ‘stealth’ science fiction fairy tale is very very well known to actual physicists and experts in the field of aeronautics…like the late USAF test pilot and physicist Col Everest Riccioni…

    Analysis of the USAF F22

    Some claim that the Raptor has the signature of a bird. True, but only in the forward quarter, co altitude, and only to enemy fighter radars.

    It is quite visible to ground based radars.

    [Page 10 of report, footnote 18]

    This includes ordinary, run of the mill civilian ATC radars, which see stealth aircraft just like any other aircraft in the sky…

    Stealthy no more? A German radar vendor says it tracked the F-35 jet in 2018 — from a pony farm

    This is of course confirmed by many many professional ATC controllers who regularly pick up ‘stealth’ aircraft on their radar scopes…and has lately prompted the professional liars in the US MIC to come up with the next fairytale about how F35 are fitted with special radar reflectors [called Luneberg lenses] in order to make them visible to civilian radar and not cause havoc in the national airspace system…

    This would also neatly explain why Russian radars in Syria are able to track Israeli F35s as soon as they leave the ground in Israel…

    …the Russians are currently able to identify takeoffs from Israeli bases in real-time and might use collected data to “characterize” the F-35’s signature at specific wavelengths as reportedly done with the U.S. F-22s.

    U.S. Air Force’s F-35A Jets With Radar Reflectors And External AIM-9X Missiles Carry Out First Airstrikes In Iraq

    F35 in flight with the ‘radar reflectors’ [😂 😂 😂 ] visible [the two small bumps on the aft fuselage, just ahead of the vertical stabilizers]

    Whew…it’s a good thing those ‘stealthy’ F35s ‘turn on their headlights’ for ‘safety’ for the Russians…which the Russians would not otherwise see…

    That makes perfect sense of course…we wouldn’t want the Russians to somehow figure out that they haven’t actually SEEN what they haven’t seen…

    Now here is how the real world works…

    Let’s go back to how this whole idea of ‘stealth shaping’ came about in the first place…

    In the early 1960s Russian scientists were working on radio wave physics at a prestigious Moscow research center…surprisingly little was actually known at the time about the specifics of radio reflection…there was an existing scientific model at the time, known as Physical Optics…

    By 1962, physicist Petr Ufimtsev had developed a much more comprehensive theory of radio wave interaction with solid objects…the main insight he added to our understanding of wave physics, is this…

    The radar reflection of an object is determined more by its EDGE geometry than its actual size. Hence, even a very large aircraft could appear very small to radar, IF they are SHAPED in a particular way…

    In other words, if you are able to figure out exactly how to use EDGES and where and how to place them, then most of the radio waves bouncing off that object will go scattering off in the opposite direction, and the object will appear much much smaller on the radar scope…

    This was demonstrated for the very first time by Lockheed engineers when they did a demonstration of a model and showed the amazed MIC people how this large model, sitting on a stick in a test field, gave a radar return of a very small bird…

    Those Lockheed engineers had built this using Ufimtsev’s work, which was translated into English by the USAF Foreign Technology Division in 1971…

    Method of Edge Waves in the Physical Theory of Diffraction

    That work started because US defense planners became very concerned in the early 1970s about the deadly effectiveness of the Russian air defense missiles, as exemplified in the 1973 Arab-Israeli war, when Russian supplied SAMs nearly annihilated the entire Israeli air force…shooting down over 100 Israeli fighter jets, mostly US McDonnell F4 Phantoms, and French Mirages…

    A Lockheed engineer had read Ufimtsev’s work and the Have Blue project was started…

    …the Skunk Works’ design team leveraged the mathematics published by Soviet physicist and mathematician Petr Ufimtsev regarding the reflection of electromagnetic waves.[2]

    A stealth engineer at Lockheed, Denys Overholser, had read the publication and realized that Ufimtsev had created the mathematical theory and tools to do finite analysis of radar reflection.

    I can tell you that certain engineers from a particular Midwest state working on the F117 used to regularly break out into song in the middle of the design office…heartily singing ‘On Wisconsin,’ the fight song of the University of Wisconsin Badgers, but replacing the words with ‘Go Ufimtsev’…to the amusement of many coworkers…

    Ufimtsev in the Soviet Union had no idea he had become a hero among the brightest aerospace engineers in the US, and would become known as the ‘Father of Stealth’…

    He subsequently accepted a professorship at UCLA and wrote a second work on radio physics, both of which today constitute the foundation stone of this discipline…

    Now we get to the fun part…why the entire ‘stealth’ shpiel is turning into a complete farce, where ‘stealth’ airplanes supposedly need to wear special ‘reflectors’ so that ATC and Russian radars can see them…

    Here is what the USAF wrote in the introductory note to the Ufimtsev 1962 book…

    The book is intended for physicists and radio engineers who are interested in diffraction phenomena, and also for students of advanced courses and aspirants who are specializing in antennas and the propagation of radio waves.

    Now I would like to really see how many of the clowns churning out horseshit 24-7 in our retarded media fall into the category of ‘physicists’ and ‘radio engineers’…

    If you actually do fall into those categories, and have actually studied Ufimtsev, you will know that it is impossible to achieve any kind of ‘stealth shaping’ with those curves we see on the F35 and the F22…

    For the simple reason that CURVES HAVE NO EDGES…

    How many edges do you see on a soccer ball…?

    This is the level of retardation that we have in our present society…

    Ask yourselves this question…knowing that people are absolutely ignorant of the subject of physics, and will never ever plow through Ufimtsev’s work, or any other real physics and the associated math…how difficult then is it, for an oligarchic defense industry that has literally TRILLIONS of dollars…to go around spreading complete disinformation…?

    Who on earth is going to plow through that book I just linked to, and be able to understand it…?

    Well guess what, the few people that have actually done that, such as Col Riccioni, who, besides being a test pilot and engineer, was also a physicist who taught highly technical subjects at the USAF Academy in Colorado…including the USAFA’s first graduate course in astronautics…

    But what is the voice of one single knowledgeable true expert, against the massive media hype that the publicists and professional liars can create with their many millions of spending on PR and disinformation…?

    This website’s alleged purpose is to present counter-arguments to the lying media…yet we see commenters here constantly popping up quoting absolutely fantastic media garbage…nowhere is the disinformation more ACUTE than in so-called ‘science’ and ‘technology’ reporting…it is mostly wall to wall bullshit…that is how the system is set up, and it does that job very very well…

    • Thanks: dogbumbreath
    • Replies: @Jiminy
    , @antibeast
  360. Malla says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    Malla, in my honest opinion, the only roadblock for India is actually the Indian govt and politicians.

    Yes, the Indian Govt is basically confused what it really is. Is it Capitalist or is ti Socialist? Does in want foreign companies with their capital and money? Of it wants no bloody foreigners into our nation? It is basically everything at one time, various forces acting at once. China’s rise also played a role in the Indian Govt to open up the economy, but some old protectionist/Socialist/Licence Raj tendencies still exists.
    What the Govt is doing now by banning Chinese imports is import substitution what we have been doing from 1947 to 1990. Hell even before 1947 for the last few decades the British Raj Govt was becoming protectionist for the first time in its history (because of the great Depression and the Wall Street crazies), the Imperial Preference System. FDR pushed for Indian independence, arm twisted Churchill, partly to get access to Indian market for American goods but after WW2/ independence, Nehru continued a similar policy to the last decades of the Raj anyways, actually an even stricter protectionist policies. These policies only helped the Indian oligarchs.
    The Indian Govt should make up its mind what it wants. There are forces within his own party which wants all foreign companies kicked out, like the Swadeshi Jagran Manch. And foreign companies watch all this and lose confidence, even the abrupt banning of Chinese companies will reduce the confidence of other foreign companies too.
    We need to improve Worker productivity and that needs a lot of investment in education and health. And increase discipline. Cheap labour is no use if it has low productivity. Chinese labour was cheap and high productive. That is why our companies could not compete. We have faced the same with our competition with British labour and Japanese labour in productivity before 1947.
    Also even if Chinese companies invested in a lot of Indian startups, they never built strong relationships with the dominant old industry oligarchs run mostly by mercantile baniya Marwaris/Gujratis etc… who are very politically dominant. Indeed the joke is that Reliance Industries owned by Ambani family and Adani family literally run the country behind the scenes. American companies made deep relationships with them. Earlier our old baniya mercntile companies opposed foreign investment as they found it as threat to their oligopoly. But the Americans gave them a stake in their system, Reliance got involved in Hollywood. Soon the Indian baniya companies were singing praise of Foreign investment. Even today Google and Facebook are investing in Reliance. The Chinese remained aloof of these oligarchs and ended up as dangerous and superior rivals to them. Indeed the Chinese companies may have run them oligarchs out. Just now as Chinese solar equipments are banned, guess who is entering into that field, why the oligarchic Adani family who are very close to Modi. As Huawei gets kicked out, the Ambani owned Reliance soon announced its own 5G system.
    The Chinese companies actually brought benefits to the poorest of the poor (the idiots who chant anti-China slogans) who now got access to products at a much cheaper price for the first time, improving life comfort and increasing their own productivity in their small businesses. They are going to be hurt the most by the ban on Chinese products. A century back when British goods were being burned, Rabindranath Tagore, the guy who wrote our national anthem and the first Asian to get the nobel prize, lamented on the adverse effect of the attack on British goods on the poorest of the poor. Surprise surprise, Gandhi (who was into British goods burning) was very close to powerful baniya mercantile Indian families like the Birlas and Sarabhais, cloth mill owners, who wanted the Indian market for themselves. Gandhi himself was from a mercantile family and caste.
    It is the Indian oligarchs whose interests leads to these actions which harms the poor masses.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  361. @Malla

    Damn, that sucks. When the elites of a country are that selfish, the masses are fucked. While lining their pockets, they should also make the country better. Making the country better is why they are allowed to line their pockets in the first place.

    All elites should strive for symbiosis instead of parasitic.

    • Agree: Malla
    • Replies: @Malla
  362. Jiminy says:
    @FB

    I think it was explained years ago that one of the reasons that the f117 actually flew as well as it did was the same reason moths can fly so well, and that being the vortices that are found around the front of the wing that can provide lift. Mainly due to the shape and acute angle of the wing. Didn’t the yanks send in f16 with radar seeking armament first before the f117 in the Iraq war, to clear the way for them? Also, don’t they use intelligence planes to scan for radar emitter positions in a lead up to conflict, then develop a course that allows the plane to avoid them? Sometimes in the past those headings would be inputted onto tapes that then set the course for the plane, automatically steering through safe passages. Obviously a plane can’t be designed to be unseen by every possible energy wave and I remember it was mentioned that tv broadcasting airwaves could also be used to locate stealth craft if needed.

    • Replies: @FB
  363. denk says:
    @Malla

    NO nEEd to tell me about Indian jingoists…like preaching to the choir !
    I’ve been confronting those types since the days of usenet [?, the current newsgroups
    after its brought by google].
    When the puny Agni was out, someone declared. ‘nuke the Three Gorges’ !
    I told them, ‘Not even the yanks have the audacity to advertise such intention’, thats saying something.

    The problem is with you, refusing to admit the other side of the coin…fukus stoking Indian chauvinism.

    Nehru hardening his position towards China AFTER his sjourn to the WH is telling.

    Jawans as cannon fodders goes right back to the days of Opium war, eight nations alliance, up to this very day.

    https://www.weeklyblitz.net/politics/obama-tried-to-corner-china-with-indias-help/

    https://www.veteranstoday.com/2020/05/28/after-failure-of-covid-19-bioweapon-trumps-turns-to-india-as-weapon-against-china/

    https://www.afr.com/policy/foreign-affairs/push-india-towards-the-quad-to-deter-china-20200525-p54w1q

    https://eurasiantimes.com/chinas-worst-nightmare-quad-could-become-a-reality-as-india-australia-japan-us-hold-drills-in-indo-pacific/

    tip of an iceberg

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Malla
  364. denk says:
    @Malla

    IOW
    YOUR earlier claim of ..

    The growing naval and aerial threat of the Chinese military has US technology to thank…

    is B.S. !

    hehehhehe

  365. antibeast says:
    @FB

    Yes, I do understand the physics of radar and electromagnetic reflection. But you miss the point of my last post.

    Fifth-generation “stealth” fighter jets such as the F-22, F-35 and J-20 CAN and DO achieve FRONTAL and SIDE stealth from enemy fighter radars due to their small RCS. But that’s not true for non-stealth aircraft such as the F/A-18 Hornets which would appear like flying ducks to fifth-generation “stealth” fighter jets such as the J-20s.

    Some claim that the Raptor has the signature of a bird. True, but only in the forward quarter, co altitude, and only to enemy fighter radars. It is quite visible to ground based radars.

    Yes, I agree. All “stealth” fighter jets DO lose some but not all of their “stealth” against the ground-based radars of anti-aircraft missile defense systems such as the S-400. The term “stealth” is a misnomer as they are actually Low-Observable Aircraft. Here’s a video comparing Russia’s S-400 vs USA’s Patriot Pac-3 and THAAD:

    • Replies: @FB
  366. Malla says:
    @denk

    Nehru hardening his position towards China AFTER his sjourn to the WH is telling.

    You need new glasses. Or you cannot understand a big essay. Make it digestible to you.

    ” In November 1961, an attempt to establish a personal rapport between Kennedy and Nehru failed when the Indian visited the United States. Despite devoting much forethought to the trip, which included meetings in Rhode Island and Washington, it fell flat: Nehru seemed tired, diffident, and indifferent to Kennedy’s wit; and his daughter Indira’s dinnertime conversation, rapping US policy and praising Menon, hardly lightened the atmosphere. JFK would later describe the encounter as “a disaster…the worst head-of-state visit I have had.”21 A fortnight after Nehru’s trip, Menon had a predictably discordant conversation with JFK in the White House; the two sparred over Vietnam, disarmament, the United Nations, and Laos, and talking to reporters outside afterwards, the U.S. record dryly noted, the Indian “extensively restated his known views on many issues”
    Not a good India US relationship in WH visit.

    Menon exasperated American officials, who found his diplomatic tactics as frustrating as the Soviets’; after dealing with him in New York in the closing months of the Truman Administration to devise a formula to end the Korean War,”
    “In the run-up to the fall 1962 crisis, Menon remained a major irritant to moving forward in
    relations in U.S. eye
    s, especially as the defense minister forged a deal with Moscow to obtain Soviet MiG-21 fighter-jets. ”
    Menon and America/West hate each other

    “By the autumn of 1962, overcoming earlier ambivalence, Menon favored a more aggressive
    policy along the border,
    in line with the “forward policy””
    “Exemplifying these views, a Western diplomat learned that Menon, in mid-September, had privately told associates that “Indian forces in [the northeastern border] area were well prepared and in fact anxious, if given the chance, to administer sound trouncing to Chinese,” and had been authorized to act—although Menon, while sensing a “good opportunity for boosting Indian army morale,” had magnanimously vowed to “soft pedal publicity” of the assured victory so as not to make the Chinese lose face.”
    ANTI WEST MENON ALSO ANTI CHICOM
    Does not look like sepoy or colony.

    “The shocking reports of Indian setbacks on the frontier in late October 1962, deflating cocky official predictions and public expectations of a glorious victory to push the Chinese back along the disputed border (especially in the North-East Frontier Agency, or NEFA), prompted widespread calls for Menon’s ouster.
    “Analysts and historians have long recognized that Menon’s political demise removed a key roadblock to improved ties between India and the United States, and in particular opened the door to closer military cooperation, including direct U.S. aid (or even intervention), against a now-common Chinese enemy. ”

    SUMMARY: Fchi got Fukus and INDIA together. Fchi shoot in own foot.

    • Replies: @denk
  367. Malla says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    Indian society because of caste has always been unequal. China is different from India, in China once you adopt Han culture you are more or less equal, that is how Han culture spread. In India, Puranic Hinduism/ brahmanism spread by adopting Jew like Brahmins as your elites. They would perhaps marry into the local priestly caste to combine and continue the scam. Next the local warriors would be made a higher caste below Brahmins but above everybody else. They warrior KSkhatriyas would be slaves too but higher slaves. In those days if you control the warriors, you control the population, just give the warriors higher status than the rest and they will accept the slavery. After Industrial revolution, Brahmins dump the warrior Kshatriyas and made alliances with the mercantile Vaisyas like baniyas, traders and businessmen. Because in industrial era, you need money, with money you control population. Gone are the need of kings and warriors. Thus most Indian media house have traditionally been Baniya (trader) owner with a Brahmin editor.
    Brahmanism fought and destroyed Buddhism (Golden period) and then Islam came. Muslims killed and raped and destroyed but Brahmanism survived. The next big challenge to brahmanism was the Anglos and Christian Protestant missionaries and modern ideas from the West. It is the missionaries who started charity for the poor, in Hindu idea, poor are poor because of bad karma in past, if you stop them from suffering poverty, you will stop them from suffering out their bad karma balance and they will have to be born again to finish off bad karma.
    The Western educated upper caste was mixed in mindset. They were semi Western modern and semi traditional. It is these people who led the independence struggle. They said to the Brits “we have modernised, now give us Dominion Status like you gave Australia/Canada and NZ”. Dominion Status is autonomy but inside the Empire. The Brits said in return “You have not totally modernised and millions of people are still backward and poor. India is not ready for dominion status”. Western educated Indians cried “Racism, you not give us dominion Statues because we be brown and Australians be White, now we want total independence” . Independence struggle, Independence and aborted British Raj and thus modernisation stopped half way. But do not worry, the now elites, Western educated upper caste carry on some modernisation but they always had a traditional Hindu element in them. So it was mix of modern and traditional. But now the pure traditional (BJP) is destroying the earlier half half elites (Congress). As India becomes more prosperous, it is actually going backwards. Because the super rich, are upper caste baniya Hindus who support many aspects of traditional culture.
    As I said, as the country becomes more prosperous, it becomes more backward and taking reverse gear. Anglo White Man’s burden has failed. India is going back to its original state. As it becomes more traditional, it will become more unequal as Indian Hindu culture is inherently unequal.
    https://scroll.in/article/969775/the-making-of-modi-s-ramrajya-how-indian-citizens-became-subjects-and-the-prime-minister-king
    The making of Modi’s Ramrajya: How Indian citizens became subjects and the Prime Minister king

    The end part of that article
    “This is a crucial moment in India’s politics – one that completely reverses what the liberal vision of the nation tried to establish. It is not just about secularism, it is about modern-liberal ideas of liberty, individualism and rights. That project stands defeated in this battle. The question is whether this is the end of the war.”

    Also on a different note, China has not taken any action against the Indian app ban or other bans. It is China which is acting sensible maybe also because trade with India is not a big factor for China’s economy and China faces bigger headache from USA and some other powerful economies.
    China could ban companies using Indian software companies services in the name of national security just as India has done its ban the name of “national security”. Big banks and companies would have to make a choice in between cheap Indian software services or access to China’s huge market. China could hunt down which Western companies in China are using Indian software company services (Infosys, TCS, Tech Mahindra etc…) and force them to change their service provider. That would hit the Indian software companies and the Indian Govt.
    China has done nothing of the sort. The Chinese deep state seems to want good relationship with India. India is acting like a little kid.

  368. Smith says:
    @FB

    However, from what we do know in hindsight…the Chinese were not interested in taking over South Korea…they only wanted to keep north Korea from being swept off the face of the Earth and for the dividing line to stay at the 39’th parallel…

    Wow, FB, so you are telling me the chinks didn’t have the same goal as the KPA, which is to liberate South Korea and unify Korea as one country?

    But I thought the chinks have totally beaten the imperialists and routed them? But they also allowed the imperalists several months to re-group, re-organize and counter-offense and push them out of Seoul i.e. shaking with hands with imperalists and maintaining the status quo?

    That says a lot about the chink leadership to be quite honest, they can have the best army in the world, but that kind of inept and coward leadership will lead to ruin.

    For the North Koreans, let this be a lesson to country who let national defense controlled by “allies”, these “allies” will shake hands with your enemies and fuck over you.

    • Replies: @denk
  369. denk says:
    @Malla

    Fchi got Fukus and INDIA together. Fchi shoot in own foot.

    Damn it,
    Another one who never read the faq.

    https://www.unz.com/article/china-trade-war-americas-policy-dilemma/#comment-3333610

    • Replies: @Malla
  370. Malla says:
    @denk

    Very informative denk. But in India’s case in 1962, Fchi was the reason INDIA went towards Fukus.
    As far as Rajiv Gandhi it was more complicated.

    • Replies: @denk
  371. FB says: • Website
    @Jiminy

    I think it was explained years ago that one of the reasons that the f117 actually flew as well as it did was the same reason moths can fly so well, and that being the vortices that are found around the front of the wing that can provide lift.

    Okay, an interesting question regarding vortex flow…

    But first, moths don’t really fly all that well…and really the science of flight at very small scales is quite different…it is interesting in its own right, for instance the bumblebee, but not that relevant to aircraft…

    I’ll get into vortices in a minute, but first the aerodynamic problem with all those flat surfaces and edges…those discontinuities, which are the key to radio scattering, are also the main problem for the flow of air, which likes smooth, continuous surfaces…

    Flowing air, like any flowing fluid, does not like to make sharp turns…so what happens with those edges is that they cause drag, which you want to minimize…which is exactly why the so-called ‘stealth’ aircraft of the later era have gone back to smooth, curved shapes…the initial Russian assessment back in the early 1960s was correct…it’s just not a good tradeoff…

    Now for vortex flow…a vortex flow over a wing does not create lift…it is a turbulent flow that creates drag…in fact the major source of drag on a wing are the wingtip vortices, that are like small tornados coming off each tip…

    Vortex created by the passage of an aircraft wing, revealed by colored smoke.

    This is why we see things like those winglets on passenger jets, and other wingtip treatments…aerodynamicists are constantly looking for ways to reduce that vortex shedding…it can never be eliminated completely…except if you put a wing inside a room with each tip being built right into the wall on each respective end…which is how wing sections, also known as airfoils, are tested in a wind tunnel…this produces two-dimensional flow because there is no spanwise flow towards the tips…

    So vortices are mostly something we don’t want to have…

    However, they can actually be used in a very clever way that is quite beneficial…and that is at high angles of attack, a strong vortex over the top of the wing can suppress the layers of airflow near the skin surface, and press those streamlines down, to prevent them from lifting up and separating from the surface…this separation happens at high angle of attack and the separation of airflow causes a loss of wing lift, which is called aerodynamic stall…the wing stops making lift…

    Here’s how that looks…

    The wing shape is seen here in profile, or section view…at low angles of attack, top left, the air flows smoothly over the top surface of the wing and stays nicely attached…

    In top right we see a higher angle of attack which will create more lift…such as when turning or maneuvering…this lift is in excess of one g, which is the pull of gravity…one g being required simply to fly straight and level and counteract the gravitational pull of the earth…

    In the lower left we see a very high angle of attack and the air cannot make that sharp turn down and stay stuck to the top surface…it begins to separate from the surface [due its inertia, it wants to keep going in its initial direction of travel]…this illustration doesn’t show it, but there will be large vortices in that gap between those top streamlines and the surface of the wing…this vortex flow is useless and only causes drag…here we see what’s going on…

    Those large vortices on the top surface of the wing only cause massive drag and provide no lift…

    Here wee see the the difference between a round, cylindrical profile and a streamlined wing airfoil…notice the counterrotating vortices at the aft end of the cylinder…again the airflow, due to its inertia, cannot make that sharp turn down [and up from the bottom surface]…and we get those vortices…

    Notice also the respective drag, graphically shown as rectangular boxes on the right…the round cylinder has about 10 times the drag of the streamlined foil, and has very little separation at the very aft end, or trailing edge…

    So vortices are not good…but they are powerful, and clever aerodynamicists have figured out in the last few decades how to put them to a good use…

    Imagine now if you had a very strong vortex ABOVE those streamlines on the top surface…they would PUSH down those streamlines and prevent them from separating from the surface…!

    We are concerned here with only the lefthand illustration…notice how that strong vortex at the leading edge causes the streamlines to turn down and remain attached to the top surface…LEV being leading edge vortex…

    Here is a top view of a delta wing [triangular planform, hence the Greek delta, Δ], showing the counterrotating vortices that form over the top surface…

    Here those vortices form due to the sharp, pointy leading edge [the entire lenght of the leading edge is basically the wingtip also]…this is probably what you are thinking of in the case of the F117 wing…

    But this is only useful at high angles of attack, a regime that is more useful to a highly maneuvering fighter than for an attack aircraft [bomb dropper] like the F117…during all other flight regimes at moderate angles of attack, a lot of energy is wasted due to those vortices…again, it’s like increasing wingtip vortices and their drag penalty, not decreasing it…

    This is good at high angles of attack and we see this on every fighter aircraft now, only they don’t use delta wings, but forward extensions of the wing at the root, called strakes, or leading edge root extensions [LERX]…

    Here we see how that works in flight…

    That’s a Boeing F/A18 Super Hornet, the mainstay of the US Navy carrier aviation…we see those vortices very clearly here, manifested as water condensation that is pulled out of suspension in the air…[the acceleration of the air due to the aerodynamic forces, causes a drop in its temperature to below the dew point and the invisible water vapor suspended in the air condenses into a little cloud that clearly swirls in that vortex flow…]

    This is great for maneuverability for those basic reasons we discussed above…ie using the energy of those rotating vortices to keep the airflow pinned down on the top surface of the wing at high angles of attack, and not letting the flow separate and go into aerodynamic stall [loss of lift]…

    The science of using these vortex phenomena is still moving forward…for instance on the Sukhoi Su57 we have the first use of the leading edge vortex controller…where that wing extension or strake is now a movable surface…

    Underside of Su57 in flight showing the left side LEVCON activated [also note the thrust vectoring on the engine jetpipes…]

    So, bottom line is that the F117 doesn’t actually fly very well…those edges create a LOT of drag, which means more engine power is required, more fuel burn etc…bad all around…

    The delta planform does in fact produce some benefits, as discussed, but this is completely separate from the faceted, edged design of the stealth shaping…you could put a wing planform other than a delta on a stealth-shaped airplane like this…and conversely, any other delta wing aircraft does not need the faceted shaping of the F117…they are really kind of separate issues…

    So besides the increased drag due to those edges, the other, and much bigger issue with the F117 is flight stability, which is also challenging…

    This is a much more complex subject, and it requires the flight control system be controlled by computer, where the computer is constantly making little corrections with the flight control surfaces like rudder, aileron etc…most modern combat aircraft use this anyway in order to be more maneuverable, because an inherently unstable aircraft will be more maneuverable because it is on the edge of going off in one direction or another constantly…but to then fly it in a steady, controlled manner requires constant pilot input to the controls, which is not practical and is why these ‘fly-by-wire’ systems are used…

    But that’s a whole other subject…

    And lastly, getting back to insect flight…they do in fact use the vortex effect, especially bees and hummingbirds…bats also and perhaps moths as well…so that is perhaps why this is sometimes mentioned…but there is a lot more to the subject of insect flight and vortices, and very little of it applies to aircraft…

    • Replies: @Jiminy
  372. FB says: • Website
    @antibeast

    Yes, I do understand the physics of radar and electromagnetic reflection.

    Yeah right…and I suppose you read the Ufimtsev book I linked to…?

    Here’s the actual reality…you actually understand very very little, if anything at all…

    And your continuing to quack here, even after my extensive educational explanation, is the proof…

    Please do not jump in my face any more…you are only making useless noises in this discussion with this meaningless yapping about ‘fifth generation’…a completely meaningless BUZZWORD…

    I’m not interested in stupid buzzwords, and neither is anyone else who wants to actually pick up some useful knowledge about the subject…

    There is very little reduction of so-called radar cross section with the F22 and F35 that is of any real use…if you look at any airplane from the frontal aspect, its physical cross section size is the smallest here…if you look at it from the side, the cross section is already much bigger…and if you look at it from the top or bottom it is HUGE…

    So the only real reduction of radar returns is possible ONLY from the front…and only from straight ahead…as soon as an enemy fighter is above you or below you, he is seeing a very very large surface area…the same, to a lesser extent is true for the side…

    What happens when the aircraft banks into a turn…he is exposing that entire HUGE underside now…the radar return on the F117 increased 100-fold in a simple banking turn…

    These are things a silly fool like you simply cannot know because you have zero real knowledge of the subject…do you think you can learn aerospace engineering from retarded youtube videos…or silly websites…?

    You need a major attitude overhaul…people who understand that there are things that they do not know are already way ahead of fools who don’t even know what they don’t know…that’s called the four stages of competence…

    The four stages suggest that individuals are initially unaware of how little they know, or unconscious of their incompetence.

    That’s you IDIOT…your first step is going to be learning to know just how much you don’t know…

    • Replies: @antibeast
  373. @Bombercommand

    Your admiration of the Indian navy is fool’s gold. That is why they have to beg the US for ASW tools right now to try to “match” China. India couldnt track Chinese subs in the Indian Ocean except for when they made themselves known.

    • Thanks: Malla
    • Replies: @Malla
  374. @Sulu

    You are simply not too bright. So all you can do is hurl insults. When i was in grade school I used to know how to deal with people like you – but alas that is not what a mature man would do. So let me break it down for the last time with you – which EVEN THE PENTAGON and RAND CORP. have publicly acknowledged. The US navy is built to be a global navy. China’s navy has the most ships now. So why is it less tonnage??? Most of their ships are smaller and more manueverable because of their role in strictly protecting the shoreline of China. The other main purposes are to win any war in the 1st island chain – which would include the Taiwan Straits and the South China Sea. China does NOT need to match US tonnage to do so. The bigger issue for the US is that China has longer range missiles than the US would have in such a skirmish. They also have the largest stockpile of missiles and rockets in the world. US carriers cant park near China and send planes to bomb Chinese positions. Again – go ask the Pentagon. That is why they are removing themselves from any missile treaty – hoping to catch up to china. The problem is even if they do – getting someone to host them. Australia is probably the only hope. China has missiles that can even hit Guam. Again – the US Navy cannot just waltz in.

    • Replies: @Bork
  375. denk says:
    @Malla

    Fchi shoot in own foot.

    What’s China supposed to do,
    surrender to MOdi’s forward policy in order not to ‘push’ Indian towards Fukus ?

    Also why F China ??

    • Replies: @Malla
  376. denk says:
    @Smith

    What rubbish. !

    China is very consistent in applying defensive warfare,
    MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.
    NO more, no less.

    1950,
    PUshing the murikkans outta NK,
    mission accomplished

    1962
    PUshing back the intruding Indians, with Delhi in sight, the PLA withdrew voluntarily.

    1979
    limited war to punish VN’s border provocations, with Hanoi in sight, withdrew voluntarily.

    As a VN, you dont understand Chinese philosophy .
    VN is more in tune with India, fukus, birds of the same feather.

    • Replies: @Smith
  377. Malla says:
    @denk

    What’s China supposed to do,
    surrender to MOdi’s forward policy in order not to ‘push’ Indian towards Fukus ?

    You keep on talking about present and I keep on talking about 1962.
    I am not saying China did wrong, China had the right to fight back “Forward Policy” but unfortunately that is how it turned out, the war discredited Menon and India and USA came a bit closer after the fall of Menon. Shit happens.
    If USA or Russia would be bordering India, India might have tried “Forward Policy’ on USA or Russia too. Then USA and Russia would have become our enemy. USA was enemy in past anyways.
    Bordering India is your bad luck.

    • Replies: @denk
  378. Malla says:
    @denk

    The problem is with you, refusing to admit the other side of the coin…fukus stoking Indian chauvinism.

    I do not refuse it, I refuse it for 1962 case. For present situation, I do not refuse but accept.

  379. Malla says:
    @Showmethereal

    That may be true, but for some reason, the Indian Navy intends to attempt something of a blockade if shit hits the fan.

    Indian Navy sieges China in the Indian Ocean (Sorry it is in Hindi)

    No Entry in ‘Indian Ocean’ | Indian Navy Vs Chinese Navy | how to Counter China’s Navy ? (Sorry it is in Hindi)

    ‘The Chinese are frightened of India’: Ex-Indian national security advisor In English

    MK Narayanan, former National Security Adviser of India, says there is always competition between India and China due to different type of civilizations the two countries represent. He calls the rest of the world to see India as a “beacon of hope”, but points out that India’s relationship with China needs to be managed, not shut out.

    Keeping An Eye On 7-8 Chinese Ships In Indian Ocean: Navy Chief | CNN-News18

    Speaking at the annual press conference, navy chief Admiral Karambir Singh, stated that the Indian Navy was keeping a close watch over 7-8 Chinese ships which has been intruding Indian waters since 2008. He also said the navy had driven away a Chinese ship last week.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  380. antibeast says:
    @FB

    Ad-hominems are for kids.

    Here’s a comparison of the Radar Cross-Section (RCS) for different types of flying objects:

    Note the RCS differences between the F-16 and the F-35 at 4.0 vs 0.005 sq. m. When the PLAAF scrambles J-20s to intercept F/A-18s launched from US aircraft carriers in the South China Sea, they WILL engage each other in head-to-head combat before they fly within visual range of each other. The frontal stealth of the J-20s will make them invisible to the on-board radar of the F/A-18s while the J-20s will be able to “see” the approaching F/A-18s which lacks frontal stealth. This stealth advantage in frontal combat will allow the J-20s to shoot the F/A-18s out of the skies over the South China Sea.

    Now if the J-20s want to attack land targets, then that frontal stealth buys some time before it disappears as the fighter jets approach the ground-based radars of anti-aircraft missile defense systems such as the S-400. Stealth design DOES work by reducing the RCS which turns “stealth” fighters such as the J-20s into Low-Observable (LO) aircraft.

    Saying that “stealth” design is useless because they don’t make aircraft 100% stealthy is a logical fallacy called reductio ad absurdum.

    • Replies: @FB
  381. denk says:
    @Malla

    damn,

    It should read,
    What’s China supposed to do,
    surrender to Nehru’s forward policy in order not to ‘push’ Indian towards Fukus ?

    • Replies: @Malla
  382. Jiminy says:
    @FB

    Thanks for the info. All good reading. Looking at the Russian plane, there’s a lot happening in that manoeuvre. It makes me think that their electronics are no longer sub par. I wonder if that left engine is being fed more fuel to help make the turn as well.

    • Replies: @FB
  383. FB says: • Website
    @antibeast

    Wow…isn’t that amazing…?

    And here’s another fun fact…

    [MORE]

    Thanks also for reminding us that Alzheimer’s is a terrible tragedy…

    • LOL: Jazman
  384. FB says: • Website
    @Jiminy

    What makes you think that Russian military and aerospace avionics were ever ‘subpar’…?

    Because our clown media says so…?

    As for the thrust vectoring seen in the Sukhoi picture, it shows the 3D vectoring capability on the Saturn engine nozzles, which are also used on other Russian combat jets…it is the only engine in the world with 3D vector…the US F22 has 2D vector only, linear up and down and side to side motion…but not anything in between, as we see in the Sukhoi where the nozzles can be independently pointed in ANY direction…

    The mechanism used to accomplish this kind of movement is quite a challenging piece of machine design, considering the very high temperature of the engine nozzle and the requirement to be light, reliable and not take up too much space…

    But even more challenging is incorporating this into the flight physics of the airplane…the flight control computer that already is used to take the commanded pilot inputs from the control stick and translate those into the movement of control surface like rudder, elevator and ailerons, must now additionally control the thrust vector, which is an additional and very powerful force…and make all of that play like a symphony orchestra to deliver the end result, which is amazing aerodynamic maneuvering…

    That is really the big challenge, because the pilot hasn’t been given an additional control device to manipulate those engine nozzles himself…that would be impractical and counterproductive, as the goal is make things as simple as possible for the pilot…ie the human-machine interface…

    So really a lot of technical challenges to make this work really well…it’s not just a matter of being able to point those nozzles in any direction…the computer has to figure out, hundreds of times a second, where the pilot wants the aircraft to go, and then to give him exactly what he needs…it would be very easy to bumble this and end up with an airplane that is more difficult to fly…

    For instance, many pilots will tell you that they are not completely happy with various computer intervention in the loop…a perfect example is the absolutely unbelievable disaster that was the Boeing MCAS system that caused two catastrophes…it will go down in the books as one of the biggest engineering disasters in history…and rightly so…

    Bottom line, this is not easy stuff…it just looks easy when it works right…

    And no, extra fuel is not added to the engines…the addition of fuel increases engine rotational speed [RPM] which increases power, and this is also controlled by the engine computer as needed, also based on where the pilot commands engine power with the thrust lever…

    This is not what is going on here…it is simply the nozzles are pointed in the desired direction, so the thrust is directed in that particular direction…

    • Replies: @FB
  385. FB says: • Website
    @FB

    Have to correct myself…the F22 thrust vector is only up and down and not side to side…

  386. Smith says:
    @denk

    Ironic.

    If we follow the chink strategem, we would still be a divided country, with South Vietnam. Despite the diaspora meme, no viets actually want that.

    So thankfully, we do not follow that foolish strategem.

    China will natutally lead itself to ruin if it really believes in leaving the enemy to re-group as “defensive”.

    • Troll: d dan
    • Replies: @antibeast
  387. antibeast says:
    @Smith

    If we follow the chink strategem, we would still be a divided country, with South Vietnam. Despite the diaspora meme, no viets actually want that.

    When the Korean War started in 1950, the Chinese PLA had just won against the Chinese KMT in the Chinese Civil War one year earlier. So for Mao to commit the Chinese military to intervene in the Korean War was highly unpopular to the Chinese masses but deemed necessary to deter US imperialism. The North Koreans were too cocky in believing that they could win the Korean War despite the backing of the Soviet Union and China, both of them not having fully recovered from WWII and the Chinese Civil War. When the Vietnam War came in the 1960s, both the Soviet Union and China had already built-up their industrial base and their military capabilities to match that of the USA.

    So thankfully, we do not follow that foolish strategem.

    The Chinese intervened after the US military crossed the 38th parallel into North Korea all the way to the Yalu River. After successfully expelling the US military out of North Korea and then occupying Seoul, China made the decision to withdraw given the overwhelming superiority in transport/logistics, military hardware and supply lines of the US military which was able to retake Seoul and push the front lines back to the 38th parallel. China actually suffered most of its casualties during this phase because the PLA lacked the material support needed to hold its positions inside South Korea.

    China will naturally lead itself to ruin if it really believes in leaving the enemy to re-group as “defensive”.

    The armistice was the right thing to do to stop further death and destruction to North Korea which suffered 3 million dead, mostly civilians from the genocidal bombings carried out by the US military against the North. China also suffered heavy losses, mostly during battles inside South Korea. Unlike the North Vietnamese who had the support of the Vietcong in South Vietnam, the North Koreans were simply not capable of winning the war, without political support from South Koreans. The Korean War was a stupid war because Korea became the most bombed-out country in world history, even worse than the WWII or the Vietnam War. What did the North Koreans gain from invading South Korea? Nothing but death and destruction.

  388. antibeast says:
    @Malla

    Wait didn’t the Mongols conquer China? Yuan Dynasty?

    Yes, the Mongols did conquer Song China AFTER they had conquered Central and Western Asia as well as Eastern Europe. Ironically, the Mongols succeeded in conquering such a vast territory by using their equestrian and archery skills AND deploying Chinese military technology developed by Chinese engineers whom they captured after sacking the Jin Dynasty before starting their military campaigns Westward.

  389. @Malla

    It’s actually scary how delusional the Indian media is… All jokes aside – Is it the deities they worship? The only hope the Indian navy would have is if the US sent one of it’s fleets.
    But what bothers me most is the hypocrisy that the US can protect it’s backyard – India can protect it’s backyard – but China can’t… I’ve also seen crazy reports of claiming Chinese “intrusion” in Indian territory – of Nicobar Islands. The only territory is 12 miles away from shore. An EEZ is NOT territory. It says you have sole access to economic benefit to anything within 200 miles. The Chinese were not exploiting any resources – yet the Indians went crazy. Yet when China protects islands in the South China Sea – everyone screams China is “militarizing”. It’s such a ridiculous joke.
    As China has agreements with Sri Lanka – Bangladesh – Myanmar – Pakistan and potentially now Iran and Maldives – India has to get used to it. China’s interests are first commercial. The only reason China is putting so much military in the South China Sea and Indian Ocean is precisely because the US and India respectively want to be able to choke China’s commercial routes. How ironic…

  390. @Malla

    Simple solution for western elites is to not try to dominate everyone who is not like them. Making friends is the best “security” there is. Russia and China wasted a few decades not collaborating. Now they have big links in the aerospace industry. I wonder why they aren’t working together in semiconductor manufacturing…?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  391. Anonymous[428] • Disclaimer says:
    @showmethereal

    Now they have big links in the aerospace industry. I wonder why they aren’t working together in semiconductor manufacturing…?

    Who says they aren’t, as well as collaborating on a great many other areas?

    China, Russia and also Iran, whatever their politics, also have strong emphases on STEM education and industries (no joke; check the stats on Iranian science and engineering grads).

    It is to be expected that there will be increasing cooperation in many areas among these nations, not only in military R&D, but civilian as well.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  392. Hrw-500 says:

    Not directly linked to the South China Sea, I don’t know much we can trust the vloggers of China Uncensored but they posted a vlog about China who threatnens nuclear war.

    I quote the video description:

    China says it wants nukes to deter the United States. Flooding in China puts the nation’s food supply chain at risk. The US “brutally” unpacks Chinese furniture. Xi Jinping launches Operation Empty Plate. A fourth Canadian is sentenced to death in China. And a new report reveals who China wants to win the US election. That and more on this week’s China news headlines!

    And it’s a bit ironic then Mao had once the support of the power that be. http://archive.vn/nY2ln Then we would have to wait and see what’s China’s next move will be if and when the Three Gorges Dam collapse.

    • Troll: d dan
    • Replies: @antibeast
    , @showmethereal
  393. antibeast says:
    @Hrw-500

    China doesn’t have to do anything except watch the most beautiful love story unfold in the USA:

    If Mao were alive today, he would say: “See, I told you so!”

  394. @Hrw-500

    Like the Shen Yun cultural dances all over the US – and the Epoch Times – that site is run by the Falun Gong cult… No doubt with funding from the usual “alphabet agencies”. They also have a cable channel called “New Tang Dynasty”…. Very sophisticated propaganda channels.

  395. @Sulu

    The US often loses these war games.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/the-us-apparently-gets-its-ass-handed-to-it-in-war-games-2019-3?r=US&IR=T

    In fact that’s the reason the US has left the INF treaty, China has intermediate missile supremacy.

    Of course the US navy would over power the Chinese navy if the Chinese decided to stray into the Pacific or try to control the Atlantic. They have no such aim. The question is can they defend China with missile a (not just their own navy). Looks like they can.

    • Replies: