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The Chinese Miracle, Revisited
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The Chinese Communist Party (CCP) centennial takes place this week at the heart of an incandescent geopolitical equation.

China, the emerging superpower, is back to the global prominence it enjoyed throughout centuries of recorded history, while the declining Hegemon is paralyzed by the “existential challenge” posed to its fleeting, unilateral dominance.

A mindset of full spectrum confrontation already sketched in the 2017 U.S. National Security Review is sliding fast into fear, loathing and relentless Sinophobia.

Add to it the Russia-China comprehensive strategic partnership graphically exposing the ultimate Mackinderian nightmare of Anglo-American elites jaded by “ruling the world” – for only two centuries at best.

The Little Helmsman Deng Xiaoping may have coined the ultimate formula for what many in the West defined as the Chinese miracle:

“To seek truth from facts, not from dogmas, whether from East or West”.

So this was never about divine intervention, but planning, hard work, and learning by trial and error.

The recent session of the National People’s Congress provides a stark example. Not only it approved a new Five-Year Plan, but in fact a full road map for China’s development up to 2035: three plans in one.

What the whole world saw, in practice, was the manifest efficiency of the Chinese governance system, capable of designing and implementing extremely complex geoeconomic strategies after plenty of local and regional debate on a vast range of policy initiatives.

Compare it to the endless bickering and gridlock in Western liberal democracies, which are incapable of planning for the next quarter, not to mention fifteen years.

The best and the brightest in China actually do their Deng; they couldn’t care less about the politicizing of governance systems. What matters is what they define as a very effective system to make SMART (specific, measurable, achievable, relevant and time-bound) development plans, and put them in practice.

The 85% popular vote

At the start of 2021, before the onset of the Year of the Metal Ox, President Xi Jinping emphasized that “favorable social conditions” should be in place for the CCP centennial celebrations.

Oblivious to waves of demonization coming from the West, for Chinese public opinion what matters is whether the CCP delivered. And deliver it did (over 85% popular approval). China controlled Covid-19 in record time; economic growth is back; poverty alleviation was achieved; and the civilization-state became a “moderately prosperous society” – right on schedule for the CCP centennial.

Since 1949, the size of the Chinese economy soared by a whopping 189 times. Over the past two decades, China’s GDP grew 11-fold. Since 2010, it more than doubled, from \$6 trillion to \$15 trillion, and now accounts for 17% of global economic output.

No wonder Western grumbling is irrelevant. Shanghai Capital investment boss Eric Li succinctly describes the governance gap; in the U.S., government changes but not policy. In China, government doesn’t change; policy does.

This is the background for the next development stage – where the CCP will in fact double down on its unique hybrid model of “socialism with Chinese characteristics”.

The key point is that the Chinese leadership, via non-stop policy adjustments (trial and error, always) has evolved a model of “peaceful rise” – their own terminology – that essentially respects China’s immense historical and cultural experiences.

In this case, Chinese exceptionalism means respecting Confucianism – which privileges harmony and abhors conflict – as well as Daoism – which privileges balance – over the boisterous, warring, hegemonic Western model.

This is reflected in major policy adjustments such as the new “dual circulation” drive, which places greater emphasis on the domestic market compared to China as the “factory of the world”.

Past and future are totally intertwined in China; what was done in previous dynasties echoes in the future. The best contemporary example is the New Silk Roads, or Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) – the overarching Chinese foreign policy concept for the foreseeable future.

As detailed by Renmin University Professor Wang Yiwei, BRI is about to reshape geopolitics, “bringing Eurasia back to its historical place at the center of human civilization.” Wang has shown how “the two great civilizations of the East and the West were linked until the rise of the Ottoman Empire cut off the Ancient Silk Road”.

Europe moving seaward led to “globalization through colonization”; the decline of the Silk Road; the world’s center shifting to the West; the rise of the U.S.; and the decline of Europe. Now, Wang argues, “Europe is faced with a historic opportunity to return to the world center through the revival of Eurasia.”

And that’s exactly what the Hegemon will go no holds barred to prevent.

Zhu and Xi

It’s fair to argue that Xi’s historical counterpart is the Hongwu emperor Zhu, the founder of the Ming dynasty (1368-1644). The emperor was keen to present his dynasty as a Chinese renewal after Mongol domination via the Yuan dynasty.

Xi frames it as “Chinese rejuvenation”: “China used to be a world economic power. However, it missed its chance in the wake of the Industrial Revolution and the consequent dramatic changes, and was thus left behind and suffered humiliation under foreign invasion …we must not let this tragic history repeat itself.”

The difference is that 21st century China under Xi will not retreat inward as it did under the Ming. The parallel for the near future would rather be with the Tang dynasty (618-907), which privileged trade and interactions with the world at large.

To comment on the torrent of Western misinterpretations of China is a waste of time. For the Chinese, the overwhelming majority of Asia, and for the Global South, much more relevant is to register how the American imperial narrative – “we are the liberators of Asia-Pacific” – has now been totally debunked.

ORDER IT NOW

In fact Chairman Mao may end up having the last laugh. As he wrote in 1957, “if the imperialists insist on launching a third world war, it is certain that several hundred million more will turn to socialism, and then there will not be much room left on earth for the imperialists; it is also likely that the whole structure of imperialism will utterly collapse.”

Martin Jacques, one of the very few Westerners who actually studied China in depth, correctly pointed out how “China has enjoyed five separate periods when it has enjoyed a position of pre-eminence – or shared pre-eminence – in the world: part of the Han, the Tang, arguably the Song, the early Ming, and the early Qing.”

So China, historically, does represent continuous renewal and “rejuvenation” (Xi). We’re right in the middle of another one of these phases – now conducted by a CCP dynasty that, incidentally, does not believe in miracles, but in hardcore planning. Western exceptionalists may continue to throw a fit 24/7 ad infinitum: that will not change the course of history.

(Republished from Strategic Culture Foundation by permission of author or representative)
 
The China/America Series
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  1. Anonymous[260] • Disclaimer says:

    Join the Borg and be one with the universe, man.

    • Troll: Supply and Demand
    • Replies: @JasonT
    , @Leo Den
    , @Dystopian
  2. JasonT says:
    @Anonymous

    It is the WEF/Davos crowd that want to stick microchips in our heads to make us borg.

    • Replies: @Old Brown Fool
  3. Alfa158 says:

    In addition to its own hard work and planning, China did also benefit from the lucky stroke of American capitalism deciding to let domestic industry die in order to procure cheaper goods to cram into the big box stores and online retailers. Bigger margins, no pesky American workers involved.
    China is winning through both luck and pluck.

  4. ….Compare it to the endless bickering and gridlock in Western liberal democracies, which are incapable of planning for the next quarter, not to mention fifteen years….

    Western plutocracies do make serious plans and you can find one 5 year plan here:

    [Destroy Seven Muslim Countries in Five Years]
    [Afghanistan->Iraq->Syria->Lebanon->Libya->Somalia->Sudan and, finishing off, Iran]
    https://genius.com/General-wesley-clark-seven-countries-in-five-years-annotated

    Why should they waste their time planning for economic development when they can just print fiat currencies in exchange for the sweat of the Global South slaves?

    China is building a self-sustained civilization whereas Khazarian mafia lead plutocracies are running ephemeral empires. The two systems are incompatible and the presstitutes who keep comparing them don’t understand what’s going on.

  5. The Ogs says:

    Everyone agrees that the American government has mortgaged the future heavily, and that the situation is looking bleak for the American grandchildren and great-grandchildren. Things can’t possibly work, going forward…
    Whereas I hear Russia and China exist in a different world, where the future might actually be viable.
    So there’s your major (fundamental) difference right there.

    • Agree: GomezAdddams, follyofwar
    • Replies: @moi
  6. Carlo says:
    @Alfa158

    Luck plays an important role in history. US was also greatly benefited by the stupidity of Europeans, who decided to destroy themselves twice in huge world wars, without which it would never become the dominant country in the West.

  7. Rubicon says:

    We have not read, or heard from Dr. Michael Hudson for a number of weeks.

    We hope he is well, and merely taking a much-deserved vacation.

    • Replies: @Ginko
  8. SafeNow says:
    @Alfa158

    One component of the China takeover of manufacturing is that they trained thousands as interpreters specializing in sourcing and factory tours. It became a popular college major. They then advertised their specialties online. Thus, a few guys get their fat American bottoms over to China, the attractive high-IQ simultaneous interpreter picks them up at the airport, and it begins…transport to hotel, select the restaurants, and an interesting city tour, in addition to the factories. All quite pleasant, efficient, and cheap.

  9. Patricus says:

    The US was well on the way to surpassing European powers well before the world wars. There was a fast growing and industrious population combined with immense natural resources.

    The world wars hobbled Britain, Germany and France but these powers quickly recovered after WW II. Nevertheless the US would have been the dominant western power even without the great wars, if only because of the larger population and boundless resources. There is no western power that can surpass America. China might, or might not, equal or surpass America. India is a less likely competitor.

    There is along history of foreigners dismissing Americans. We were dull, uneducated, full of lesser races. Somehow America did better than all the other nations. It might be premature to predict the end of America—not a good bet.

  10. Rahan says:

    Compare it to the endless bickering and gridlock in Western liberal democracies, which are incapable of planning for the next quarter, not to mention fifteen years.

    Now now, just because post-Western post-democracies call themselves Western democracies, this neither means that they are Western democracies, nor that Western democracies are defective.

    While they really were Western democracies, they could outcompete every challenger, from Kaisers and emperors to various comrade chairmen. They could attract the best from the rest, operate supersonic intercontinental airliners, had the most robust and authentic pop culture in the world, were trend-setters in everything and so on.

    Just because those who hijacked and dismantled the institutions, did away with freedom of speech and conscience, still pretend to be “carriers of the banner of liberal democracy”, this doesn’t mean that they are. After all, we realists measure reality through facts first and through words second.

    Remember how a hundred years ago in the US car-selling fat cats bought up public transport and then ran it into the ground, thus discrediting the concept, and conditioning the US population that public transport sucks, while cars are brilliant?

    Right now the “western democracy” is being ran into the ground, and yes this discredits the very concept, but what are we, ten year olds to take this at face value?

    Summary: China is doing much better than anyone expected and this is quite an achievement. However, its major competitor today is not “liberal democracy” but rather “virtue-signaling techno feudalism”.

  11. @Alfa158

    most of the “business” ZOG agents like you kvetch about had already been exported to Japan and Mexico.

  12. @Patricus

    There is no western power that can surpass America.

    IMO Team America ®, as a societal and civilisational model, peaked way back in the 1970’s.

    Everything has been downhill since those heady days. Opportunities missed, the best of intentions corrupted, a rosy destiny foregone – the slow, agonizing death of an Empire.

    It’s much the same as the collapse of the Roman Empire – not so much a mirror image, but a rhyme. The rot has set in and is eating America from the inside out.

    The ultimate fate of the USA is central, and will be pivotal, to the rest of Western civilisation. If the Satanic cabal of the Davos crowd succeed, the entire West will be reduced to a totalitarian collective ruled by the likes of Gates, Schwab and their hidden handlers. America will then be just one more colony of “useless eaters” ruled with an iron fist. We will all own nothing, and be happy.

    As for the non-West, including South America, most of Eurasia and especially China – well, all they really have to do is weather the storm and survive, while Western civilisation implodes and submits to a permanent Orwellian dictatorship.

    It might be premature to predict the end of America—not a good bet.

    That’s entirely up to the American people. Not looking good so far.

  13. @Rahan

    Americans were too deracinated and fat-on-the-hog to stop the “international capitalists”. In my view, this is the marker of a weak society begging to be destroyed. I am glad that China will destroy it, and even gladder that I’ll be safely ensconced in Dalian while ZOGmerica descends into anarchy and the “historic American nation” descends into opioid abuse, illegitimacy, and (((Trump))) messiah worship.

    It’s a shame that the North will have to fall with the South, but this is our just revenge for not giving Southerners the Boer-Revolt treatment after their failed boogaloo attempt.

    • Disagree: CelestiaQuesta
    • Replies: @Escher
    , @Rahan
    , @Poco
    , @Sick of Orcs
  14. @Patricus

    There is one western power that ticks all the boxes, and that’s Russia. Which is why Russia remained an enemy even after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

    Outside of the west, I agree that India seems to lack the necessary secret ingredient. Then again, a person 100 years ago would have said the same about China. As for modern China, I think it might already have surpassed the US, and it’s just that the necessary clash-of-civilisations moment hasn’t yet happened to demonstrate the actual true situation.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  15. Baxter says:

    I forget the context, though the phrase stuck with me for some reason. It goes “like dinosaurs talking about the ice age.” I think that phrase pretty much captures the overall attitude of our political class when talking about China. Indeed, they are like dinosaurs talking about the ice age.
    It should also be pointed out that China is something like 90 percent Han. The place is kicking-ass without “diversity.” I swear, the next time I have to hear the word diversity used in a positive context, well, I may just pull out my prick and start shaking it around.

    • LOL: Biff
  16. Yee says:

    Patricus,

    “It might be premature to predict the end of America—not a good bet.”

    The U.S. is the 3rd most populous country in the world, so, even if collapse, it’d only mean losing world hegemony. You’d still be the natural hegemon in the Americas.

    Unfortunately, some people find that prospect unacceptable.

    • Agree: showmethereal
    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
  17. Ron Unz says:
    @Marshal Marlow

    Outside of the west, I agree that India seems to lack the necessary secret ingredient. Then again, a person 100 years ago would have said the same about China.

    Actually, that’s not correct. Back a hundred years ago, many of the foremost public intellectuals of the West strongly believed that China would soon regain its position among the world’s leading powers, especially in economic matters. I discussed the whole history at length in a couple of my articles from a few years ago:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/chinas-rise-americas-fall/

    https://www.unz.com/runz/how-social-darwinism-made-modern-china-248/

    E.A. Ross, one of America’s greatest early sociologists, wrote a very interesting book about his experiences in China back in 1911:

    https://www.unz.com/book/e_a_ross__the-changing-chinese/

    I’m much less familiar with the Western verdict on India back then, but doubt it was anything nearly as positive.

  18. Yee says:

    Rahan,

    “Summary: China is doing much better than anyone expected and this is quite an achievement. However, its major competitor today is not “liberal democracy” but rather “virtue-signaling techno feudalism”.”

    I tend to ignore ideological indoctrination and look into the more fundamental elements, since throughout China’s history, we have run the circle of rise and collaspe over and over, without any of modern political ideologies.

    What rises a nation is political stability and a populace with good organizing skills.Without these two, you can’t maintain a functional soceity (this is exactly the problem for Africa nations, IMO, no political stability and people are bad at organizing)…. What collaspes a nation is the extreme concentrating of wealth to the few.

    Even if everyone starts on relatively equal footing at the beginning, after a couple of centuries of competition, you’d have a few gigantic winners and everyone else losers. That’s when it starts to not working.

    • Thanks: RichardDuck
    • Replies: @Baxter
  19. Biff says:
    @Patricus

    It might be premature to predict the end of America—not a good bet.

    • LOL: GMC
  20. Ktulu says:

    Definitely a good time for the world to get handed over to the Chinese. Last stretch of time the Chinese held pre-eminence over Europe business went along as usual, the world didnt go to shit for the most part other than the muslims invading everything which wasn’t China’s problem, and now on the brink of AI and GMO humans, at least with the Chinese at the helm we know that these new technologies won’t be taken and run with to the extreme, because that’s not their thing.

    We will be back, hopefully, and if and when we do return, once again with something new the Chinese would never bother to think of, I hope it is improves human ecology. But in the meantime, while the west descends into race war, at least the world is in the hands of the group of people who loathe nothing more than rocking the boat.

    • Replies: @Ber
  21. @Ron Unz

    I’m much less familiar with the Western verdict on India back then, but doubt it was anything nearly as positive.

    I don’t see how India could have been thinking about world economic dominance 100 years ago when it had been under a Brutish colonization for 200 years – 100 years under the Brutish East Indian Company and 100 years (as of 1947) under the Brutish crown. Queen Victoria and Queen Elizabeth were all empresses on India. I suspect that their intellectual gurus were rather busy figuring out how to escape from the jaws of the Brutish Crown.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  22. Cyrano says:

    I don’t know why people are swooning so much over the rise of China. I mean it’s good for them, and I would like to see them reunite with Taiwan – traitors that they are, and I would like them to put Hong Kong under firm control of CCP, but that’s about it.

    China is not going to be a savior of the west, or some kind of panacea for the all the ills of this world – it is more likely that they will turn into a pain-in-the-assea in the coming years.

    I also think that their “strategic partnership” with Russia is way overrated. I call their “partnership” a marriage of inconvenience – for Russia that is.

    The ideal ally for Russia in Asia is Japan. They are similar in population sizes and together they can counterbalance China not only in Asia, but on the world’s stage. Too bad Japan at present time is in an abusive relationship and they are not allowed to date new partners. But the times pass and come for everything.

  23. frankie p says:
    @Ron Unz

    Ron,

    I find it repeatedly in books in which “old China hands” express their opinions about the Chinese as a civilization and race. An excellent example would be Barbara W. Tuchman’s Pulitzer Prize-winning ‘Stilwell and the American Experience in China’. Stilwell recognized many of the positive features of the average Chinese, and especially the average soldier. He railed against the endemic corruption in the system and officer corps, and asserted repeatedly (including many communications with the US military and government, especially Marshall) that with proper leadership, they would make an awesome military. The striking thing about the book, however, is that besides Stilwell, nearly every US official who learned the language and culture had similar opinions.

    • Replies: @Daniel Rich
    , @Anonymous
  24. @JasonT

    And they say the Chinese government is intrusive, and it does not value your privacy.

    • Replies: @Rev. Spooner
  25. @Nostradamus

    “…and the presstitutes who keep comparing them don’t understand what’s going on.”

    A picture of your average journo taking notes:

    I fully agree with the rest of your post.

  26. AaronB says:

    China’s development is so amazing that it’s citizens are rebelling and “lying down” – refusing to work.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.insider.com/disenchanted-chinese-youth-join-a-mass-movement-to-lie-flat-2021-6%3famp

    6 day work weeks, insane hours, low pay, inability to afford housing or get better jobs, intense pressure, constant monitoring – yes, this is exactly the system we should be emulating in America.

    Basically, the latest Asian “tiger” – sacrifice all life quality for “development” – just on a larger scale and even more brutal and intense.

    The world should be moving towards the relaxed European model that prioritizes quality of life and not work.

    To the credit of the Chinese people, it seems they are beginning to wake up. And these kinds of intense efforts never last, so China won’t remain a dystopia long term, and will become a more relaxed place as time goes on.

    The funny thing is, the CCP is trying to suppress this movement and telling people they are not allowed to be “content with just getting by”, but must slave away in their shitty jobs to enrich the CCP elite.

    • LOL: Erebus
  27. @Ron Unz

    India suffers from casteism, which is a combination of everything that is bad for a good society and for a great nation- State; it is not possible to rid of casteism in the foreseeable future. So, no one need lose sleep over India’s domination over the world.

    For those readers who are not fans of a multi-culti or race- intermarriages, India offers an excellent case study. It has all the ingradients: race differences, language differences, and social and cultural differences that are yet to be shown either as advantages or obstacles for a 21st Century society. But mixing of races is going on in India for thousands of years now, and still it has not yet produced a homogeneous and cohesive society. The counterpoint is that complete racial mixing was prevented by a rigid caste system that prohibits marriage outside the caste. Even today, a very substantial portion of upper castes have (comparatively) fairer skin, and lower castes, darker skin. May be all those multi-culti countries will end up with a society with caste system.

    • Replies: @BlackFlag
    , @loren
  28. Kramer says:

    China miraculously became a superpower after the global elite decided that all Western production should move to China.

    The average Chinese factory laborer makes 7000 dollars a year, and lives in a hazy world of constant smog, while billionaire financiers and stock holders in the West make massive profits.

    The Chinese government is a puppet regime installed by the global elite, to ensure that Communist production continues.

    Meanwhile, in China, forced Communist labor by the very poor earning dirt wage is spinning the wheel of globalist ambitions.

    US hegemony? Bad.

    Chinese hegemony? Great!

    Stupid much, Pepe?

    • Disagree: Badger Down
    • LOL: Erebus
  29. antibeast says:
    @Carlo

    And don’t forget the transfer of technology as well as the emigration of talent from Europe to America during the 19th and first half of the 20th centuries which turned a nation of cowboys and hillbillies into an industrial and technological powerhouse overnight. Unlike the USA, Latin American countries failed to acquire the technology and attract the talent from Europe which relegated all the countries South of the USA to a perpetual state of industrial and technological underdevelopment persisting to this day. Mexico and Brazil could have industrialized their economies in the same manner as the USA after getting their independence from Spain and Portugal, respectively, which for some reason did not happen unlike the USA.

  30. A miracle? That’s terrorist Ziocorporate globalism’s newspeak. Geopolitical manipulation of tech and know-how transfers, investment and trade schemes has made many an “Asian tiger” in the last 40 years. South Korea wasn’t even more developed than the North for decades before the socioeconomic effects of US-backed industrial and financial policies was widespread. The Chinese, a civilasation of 5000 yrs of recorded history, rambling about “miracles”, even if not really, is pure absurdity showing how intertwined in business prostects the CCP are with their Ziocorporate partners.

    And then, to say that the US “can’t plan for the next 5 yrs” is outright ignorant and misleading. The US is part of the Ziocorporate collective, and you just don’t get the power to launch a global “great reset” by not being able to plan ahead, the US regime is clearly on its way to further corporatise, and likely automise, state affairs as the technopoly assumes more government responsibilities, the CIA can still stage coups faster than a Beijing-Shanghai bullet train. China itself has been the object of the West’s policy of profiteering and building and order out of chaos for some 200 yrs already, and there they are trying to get the EU-China deal going and US-China trade to grow more. China’s overclass and the masses consumption habits have westernised and never the other way around.

    The Zioterrorist-led Chinese “miracle” is actually sending us all back to feudalism, but powered by AI for a change. Although the Chinese, even if overworked like the other east Asians, at least appear to have the slight advantage that their government doesn’t seem to want to social-engineer model postmodern activist-citizens wearing rainbow armbands, or marginalised “domestic terrorists” out of them.

    • Disagree: antibeast
    • Replies: @Kramer
  31. @SafeNow

    Friendly and harmonious relations. NOT the Western model. Find the greediest, most venal, and put them on the payroll as ‘assets’. Our Parliament is full of such vermin, many in the so-called ‘Labor’ Party, and earning their pats on the head from the Boss by snarling at barking at China.

    • Replies: @Arthur MacBride
  32. @Ron Unz

    India is bedevilled by sycophancy to the West, the caste system, its Islamophobic regime and envy of China, but they are, at last, investing in infrastructure, following the Chinese example. Too late, of course, as India will be uninhabitable in decades through anthropogenic climate destabilisation (like Portland and Vancouver!??).

    • Agree: GomezAdddams
    • Replies: @anon
  33. @Yee

    America will splinter into a collection of squabbling regimes. Blowback on steroids.

    • Replies: @Johnny Rico
  34. The west over the last twenty plus years have been sold non stop trillions in toxic cheap, inferior products from China, while greedy globalists asshats look the other way. They have sold out the west for mega bucks, reaping wealth for globalists as western workers were laid off, outsourcing manufacturing to a communist regime.
    In the last few years, I have received product recall notices for my car’s airbags, shower seat, dog food, supplemental vitamins, toys I bought for gifts, ad nausea. All products made in China.
    Then forced to shelter in place for over a year and a half, wear a mask, social distance, take untested vaccines because China in collusion with globalists, hate our President and would rather see the whole world collapse as collateral damage while they install a criminal babbling buffoon President to further expand their power while censoring, banning and jailing patriots for addressing grievances for a January 6th rally on voter fraud.
    Then to add fire to the flame, label those same patriots white Supremacists and domestic terrorists.
    The psychopaths of the Biden administration have gone full postal on not just white America, all America. When government uses tax payer funded agencies, local and federal law enforcement and military against its own citizens, it’s time patriots use the second to restore constitutional order.
    Don’t wait until we have passed the point of no return. Remember, Biden said they have nukes and F15’s..Those are our weapons, let’s keep them safe and in good friendly hands.

    • Replies: @Supply and Demand
  35. Aglan says:

    Slowly but surely, the scenario predicted by the Fatima prophecy of 1917 is unfolding before our very eyes. I myself never imagined that the “errors of Russia” would spread to the United States under the guise of “political correctness”, but it’s happened. The neo-Bolsheviks have even succeeded in hijacking the American presidency!

    Only this prayer will bring lasting peace:

    “Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the Father, send now Your Spirit over the earth.

    Let the Holy Spirit live in the hearts of all nations, that they may be preserved from degeneration, disaster and war.

    May the Lady of All Nations, who once was Mary, be our Advocate.

    Amen.”

    FYI: exactly ten years before communism came to an end in Eastern Europe in 1989, Pope John-Paul II made the following invocation during an outdoor Mass in Warsaw (June 2nd 1979):

    “And I cry — I who am a Son of the land of Poland and who am also Pope John Paul II — I cry from all the depths of this Millennium, I cry on the vigil of Pentecost:

    Let your Spirit descend.
    Let your Spirit descend,
    and renew the face of the earth,
    the face of this land.

    Amen.”

    • Replies: @Druid55
    , @Nancy
  36. anonymous[139] • Disclaimer says:

    Author really lays the praise on. A paid shill would be more subtle than this. Author cranks out one article after another centering on Chinese triumphalism. Lots of people like totalitarian societies because they can get things done so looking at them from the outside they’re quite impressive. Of course the outsiders praising them don’t want to live there, they prefer being wine and cheese gurus living in fancier digs in the West. Not to say the Chinese haven’t made great strides, they have, but daily life there is unknown by these foreign visitors, some of whom are Duranty clones. Rebels at home, admirers of conformity there.

    • Agree: Kramer
    • Disagree: Badger Down
    • Thanks: Grahamsno(G64)
    • Replies: @Miro23
  37. antibeast says:
    @Cyrano

    The ideal ally for Russia in Asia is Japan. They are similar in population sizes and together they can counterbalance China not only in Asia, but on the world’s stage. Too bad Japan at present time is in an abusive relationship and they are not allowed to date new partners. But the times pass and come for everything.

    Delusional fantasy which ignores the geopolitical realities of East Asia. Do you know how many times Russia/USSR went to war against Japan after its Amur acquisition from the Qing Dynasty? And do you know why Japan invaded Manchuria prior to WWII? I will give you a hint: something to do with the island of Japan.

    • Replies: @Cyrano
    , @Daniel Rich
  38. Kramer says:
    @shylockcracy

    The perfect comparison is Iran and all the Asian Tigers.

    Iran went against Global Zionism, so they are sanctioned by everyone, including China and Russia.

    Meanwhile, Zionist vassals like China “miraculously” surpassed the West, because Global Zionism decided to move all of the West’s production there.

    China has never criticized Israel, to my knowledge. That is why they are advancing so quickly today.

    If Xi comes out and chants death to Israel, he will be removed from power. If all of China starts chanting death to Israel, they will be sanctioned like Iran, and all of their production capacity will be moved somewhere else, just like it was moved away from the West.

    Pepe is a propagandist on the Chinese government payroll.

    Chinese hegemony will make US hegemony look like paradise on Earth.

    • Replies: @Francis Miville
    , @Erebus
  39. onebornfree says: • Website

    “a CCP dynasty that, incidentally, does not believe in miracles, but in hardcore planning”

    Yawn.

    Here we ago again – yet another mindlessly idiotic paean to the joys of socialism/communism/collectivism ( with the brain-dead idea that the Chinese are clever and can therefore get it right, and so therefore “we” should copy them), this time penned by the blatant commie shill Escobar.

    Therefore, according to Escobar , all “we” need in the West , apparently, is a lot more top down “hardcore (economic)planning” , Chinese style, of course. 😂

    Anyone with just a modicum of sense plus a knowledge of economic theory is fully aware that fully free markets are the only way to mass prosperity, and that top-down, planned economies always destroy economies and the population, leading to mass poverty and enslavement , while enriching only those at the very top (I.e. the planners).

    This “just” in:

    The best way to general economic prosperity for _any_ society is a completely _unplanned_ from above, free market economy , what is definitely NOT needed ( in China or anywhere else), is for a bunch of know-nothing know it all murdering criminal halfwits to “plan” an economy to their own advantage , and to the rest of society’s detriment.

    So get lost , Mr Escobar, and stick your Chinese style “hardcore planning” where the sun don’t shine”.

    “Regards” onebornfree

    • Disagree: GomezAdddams
  40. moi says:
    @The Ogs

    Not to mention that Americans are quite possibly the dumbest people in the world.

  41. @Carlo

    It was not the Europeans who “decided to destroy themselves twice in huge world wars;” that was a decision and plan of the bankers, epitomized by those Brenton Sanderson discussed elsewhere.

    in September 1919, . . .
    in one of his Army educational courses, [Hitler] had
    heard a lecture by Gottfried Feder, a construction engineer and a crank in the field of economics, who had become obsessed with the idea that
    speculative” capital, as opposed to “creative” and “productive” capital, was the root of much of Germany’s economic trouble. He was for abolishing the first kind and in 1917 had formed an organization to achieve this purpose: the German Fighting League for the Breaking of Interest Slavery.

    Hitler, ignorant of economics, was much impressed by Feder’s lecture.

    He saw in Feder’s appeal for the “breaking of interest slavery” one of the “essential premises for the foundation of a new party.” In Feder’s lecture, he says, “I sensed a powerful slogan for this coming struggle.” Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, William Shirer, 1960

    Many on this forum lament US enslavement to central banking and consequent domination by debt finance and those who have mastered the method and its privileges; many moan, “But what can we do?”
    Hitler and also Mussolini did something.

    Shirer’s dismissive tone reflects the attitude of the bankers who demanded war to protect their privileges.

    • Thanks: Erebus
    • Replies: @HeebHunter
    , @Curmudgeon
  42. Why does Escobar except Chinese imperialism?

    This article was republished from Strategic Culture Foundation,which is basically a propaganda front for the Kremlin

    Why does Escobar except Russian imperialism?

    I can’t think of a more toxic and dangerous combination of totalitarian communism,” with Chinese characteristics ” and Putins dumb as [email protected]#k irredentism

    Whats more I’m blown away at how many folks fall for this latest iteration of the axis of evil,talk about useful idiots

    • LOL: Erebus
    • Replies: @Badger Down
    , @Daniel Rich
  43. Escher says:
    @Supply and Demand

    The suffering of the common citizenry that comes with the collapse of a nation is nothing to celebrate.
    The leaders will make out like bandits, no matter what happens.

  44. @Cyrano

    In 1904, it pleased the Jew Jacob Schiff to set Japan at war against Russia, to weaken her and pave the way for the Bolsheviks. The subsequent Treaty of Portsmouth (USA) settled things for a while, but then Japan sneak-attacked again, grabbing all of Sakhalin. As the USSR had agreed at Yalta, Japan was attacked from the north three months after the second world war ended in Europe. Japan lost all of Sakhalin and the four southernmost Kuril islands. And they hate it! To this day the Japanese government insists that school books show Japan extending north of Hokkaido, to include “the Northern Territories”.

    • Thanks: Angharad
    • Replies: @Anon
  45. noboady says:
    @Alfa158

    just like usa luck, when the world engaged in unrestricted wars, and usa came in later to proclaim its the savior of the world. after all the world powers were exhausted

  46. Realist says:
    @moi

    Not to mention that Americans are quite possibly the dumbest people in the world.

    Not all. The U. S. has some of the brightest also. The problem is there are a large number of idiots in the U. S. and they are allowed to vote. If the U. S. had a meritocracy instead of a plutocratic oligarchy posing as a democracy, we would be competitive.

    • Replies: @The Real World
  47. @onebornfree

    Admit it, OBF, Xi is smarter than the Biden and that woman put together. This gotta be America’s dumbest government.

  48. @moi

    It was an ingenious plan: they would vote in an elderly person with dementia to be president.

  49. @AaronB

    I am not sure your rosy prognosis for China’s future is realistic. Here in Toronto, about five years ago a case came up out of the shadows of a Chinese immigrant working for a fellow ChineseCanadian: ten hours a day, six days a week, for \$200 a week. I’m sure that’s just the tip of the iceberg. A friend of mine knows a Chinese lady who paid her condo mortgage by dividing the bedrooms in half and cramming in two tenants to a tiny condo bedroom, even put a partion wall in the kitchen to add an extra tenant. The Chinese bring their “insect slave” mentality with them when they emmigrate. Imagine what it is like in China.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @antibeast
  50. Fred777 says:
    @AaronB

    “6 day work weeks, insane hours, low pay, inability to afford housing or get better jobs, intense pressure, constant monitoring – yes, this is exactly the system we should be emulating in America.”

    It is the system we’re emulating in America, just with massive debt rather than their economic growth.

  51. @alwayswrite

    The latest iteration of the axis of evil: an idiot running the US, a Jew running the UK, and a murderous borg running the entity stealing Palestine. USUKisrael!

  52. Angharad says:
    @Alfa158

    BALLS. Jew money moved everything to China because the Chinese are PERFECT bugmen. JEWS are running China.

    • Disagree: Miro23
    • Thanks: Kramer
    • Replies: @Anon
  53. @Alfa158

    … the lucky stroke of American capitalism deciding to let domestic industry die in order to procure cheaper goods to cram into the big box stores and online retailers.

    My impression as it happened was that it was not done for that reason. Rather, the left had constantly attacked domestic industry because of the way that workers were treated, but then around 1970, the left opened up a second front by attacking corporations for all the pollution that American factories generated. A lot of corporations realized that they could avoid all these hassles with the left simply by moving their factories to other countries. And so that’s what they did. Too bad for the American worker, but that was the left’s problem.

    • Replies: @frontier
    , @obwandiyag
  54. Angharad says:
    @moi

    No. Not that. Americans were TERRORIZED and traumatized by JEW MONEY torture and malicious engineering for over a century. All real leadership was crushed. White men have allowed jews to take over everything, and this is the result.

    • Replies: @Boomthorkell
  55. AaronB says:
    @Bombercommand

    Yes, but that’s only one side of the Chinese character.

    There is also a deep and rich tradition in China of love of “leisure”, nature, enjoyment, and pleasure.

    Also, you have to cut the Chinese some slack – they had a very bad 19th and 20th centuries, some real trauma there, and really were very poor until recently.

    It’s normal for China o go through a period of frantic all out effort in an attempt to “catch up” – all countries do. Only, the CCP elite is trying to unnaturally prolong this period and keep the Chinese as slaves to enrich themselves, and Western elites are trying to rekindle enthusiasm for harsh, brutal capitalism in the West by pointing to China.

    A bad show all around.

    Probably, the world won’t be able to “calm down” until all countries who can, go through this period of frantic development and reach the other side. China is on the cusp of achieving that, and it’s people are starting to question the system.

    • Replies: @antibeast
    , @Bombercommand
  56. TG says:

    You know, everyone says that a rapidly growing population is a good thing. Everyone is either lying or mistaken.

    Ancient Rome was characterized by a low fertility rate – the rich complained about it all the time, that this caused high wages and they had to resort to slavery to get cheap labor. And Rome dominated civilization for about 5 centuries.

    In the 19th century the American fertility rate fell – it was on the base of a low fertility rate and abundant resources and industrial protectionism that American boomed! Then in 1888 the rich decided to cancel that out, and used mass immigration to force population growth upwards, and indeed crushed wages and created great poverty and a massive crime wave. After the 1929 crash (no, NOT after 1924) immigration halted, and the already low fertility rate fell even further. It was on this base that, when things took off around WWII, the United States economy boomed into the greatest industrial and military power the world had ever seen. Now the rich are progressively opening the door to the overpopulation third world – and things are fraying, aren’t they?

    China under Mao insisted that it was everyone’s patriotic duty to have six kids each starting at age 16. That (in COMBINATION with some bad central policies on industrialization, true) nearly tore the country apart. The central authorities backed off, and now, with a moderate fertility rate, China is set to become the dominant global power. Sure market reforms helped – but market reforms in the face of massive population pressure have not worked out in Mexico or India or Brazil or really anywhere else.

    Bottom line: humans are only productive after they have been supplied with tools and developed resources and industrial infrastructure. Rapid population growth sucks up capital like a sponge, enriching the few but overall making the society poor and capital starved.

    The United States is now following Milton Friedman and Julian Simon. China is now following Alexander Hamilton and Ma Yinchu. Yes indeed, China is going to prevail.

    • Thanks: RichardDuck
  57. Ross23 says:

    The main issue relating to “China’s Rise” right now is :-

    1.How will the US blame China for COVID?
    2.What will it do ie sanctions, canceling debt etc?
    3.What other nation will go along with it?
    4. How serious will it be for China?
    5.What will China do to overcome this?
    6.The possible outcome on China?

    Everything else is based on the past up to now

  58. @Kramer

    As we are speaking now, China never mentions Zionism while Iran mentions nothing but Zionism, but it shows up that the two countries are allies and that Iran as gently opens up to China as Canada to the US. China loves to hush but let allies speak the embarrassing part in its name. North Korea is the there to mean to the West that if the Zionist try to impede their growth rate by various means or impose them LGBT they can go back full Mao, Cultural Revolution style. Same thing for Iran : China can all of a sudden become the people of the world’s beacon of antisemitism by denouncing the Jews for having been responsible for not only the present West’s subservience and decadence but also the invention of the West’s undue technological progress and prosperity (through kabbalah) which should have never taken taken place as these belong to China only.

    The Chinese have a long-term duty to take karmic revenge upon the Western world, but not any Western World, that which was spearheaded by the Sassoons. They won’t engage in antisemitic discourse : they act first and then they let their public draw their conclusion. The Jews were somewhat expert at winning while forbidding to mention their victories too loudly. China knows how to play that game far better. They when it comes to the NWO just say “Why not?” not mentioning that they agree with the concept on one condition : they alone will be the bosses of that order, or there will rather WWIII they can but win. They are the Centrol Kingdom of the Earth : not Israel. We tend to see Maoism as the ultimate result of the conquest of China by Western Jew-led ideologies : in reality Mao was but the continuator of the oldest political philosophy of China : “legism”, which is machiavellianism on steroids plus Orwell.

    China does not mention Zionism now, it is on the contrary arch-polite on that matter, but as you now Chinese politeness has one aim : the defeat of your partner. China plans to defeat Israel on one battleground the latter never expect to be attacked from : not ideology, not military or political influence, not any chess game in the ME or in Europe, but speculative finance. They are waiting for Israel to turn full religious as they seem to come close to their final aim : destroying the economies of the West to look like the latter’s only driving force. As Israel build its infamous Third Temple the news will spread in all East Asian Stock Exchange places that Israel, after all, has shown to be a superstitious Semitic people like so many others in the ME, and to have a way overexposed and overrated intellect and expertise. In a few days of transactions throughout China and East India all Jewish and Zionist fortune will dwindle to near zero. Not that they are so bad but there is always better than them closer to home, as the new barycentre of World Economy will be Asian, not Western.

    All of a sudden Israel will have fallen to economic level of Yemen, and the USA will be busy with Civil War II, as the soul of this country, Israel, no longer radiates enough magnetism to keep that dumb elephant body’s together : America was originally defined as the New World’s own New Zion as well as the restorer of the old one, and became a world power only by inheriting from Jewish power networks that decided to outsource their main operations in their country from other former empires they had built together through their contacts and managed before jettisoning them : America entailed no risk as they had always been the real founders of it and peopled it with the dumb rookies they chose wave after wave of immigration, as America believed in their Bible only as they read them, as the original White racism of America, far from being antisemitic was anglo-israelist : you were a true White only in as much your blood was rich in Jewish genes from lost tribes, that is the only form of White supremacism that can be sold in the US and it was sold until about 1950.

    But when the Zionist empire has been defeated financially (what no Jews await : they are ready for a murderous response in case of military defeat : Samson option ; they otherwise think money exists only through the agency of their God through the magical powers of their hands to value and devalue any objects) by a much more cunning supremacist entity than they, their game is over. Israel is not defeated militarily, it is as poor as Yemen. Meanwhile Iran will have become the main regional power. Contrary to what you say Iran had an interest to be overly and caricatural antisemitic. If they had renounced to official top priority antisemitic discourse they would have been forced to obey Jews who ask from them to remain underdeveloped and corrupt. The only way to keep that sort of Jewish influence at a distance is constant rabid antisemitic discourse and a national manifest destiny based on antisemitism, not vice-versa. Iran had not the same starting point as China : an antisemitic kind of Maoism (as would have happened if the gang of four had won) would have meant for China renouncement to modernisation while in Iran it was the condition for modernisation. Better : radical antisemitic Islam always connives with the Israeli extreme religious right, and consequently with the right wing of Zionism in the West : Menachem Begin and Netanyahu have counted on Iran’s own religious radicals to foster their own platform and progressively do away will all forms of Zionist left as there used to be. Iran has modernized and developed at last (it is far easier for any moderately intelligent would-be scientist or engineer to become one in Iran than in the US) thanks to their Islamic state : you need to have some fanatical religion that prohibits many pleasures and excessive free speech to develop an industrial state : full humanist democracy is tolerable only among certain self-contained elites as a luxury denied to the working masses.

    • Replies: @frankie p
    , @Kramer
  59. “…while the declining Hegemon is paralyzed by the “existential challenge” posed to its fleeting, unilateral dominance.”

    Thanks to your people, Pepe Escobar, the Hegemon is bleeding internally but don’t bet on your yellow dog, just yet,, to win the battle, notwithstanding the Tribe’s machinations.

  60. MLK says:

    So China, historically, does represent continuous renewal and “rejuvenation” (Xi). We’re right in the middle of another one of these phases – now conducted by a CCP dynasty that, incidentally, does not believe in miracles, but in hardcore planning.

    Always and everywhere, there’s nothing new under the sun when it comes to “hardcore planning.” The Sad Story that is the three decades since the events of 1989-91, for the US and the West were the product of planning.

    Every civilization/system has its appeal depending on where you sit. It’s been memory-holed, but that was certainly true with Nazism/National Socialism, including long after WWII had ended. Ditto with Soviet Communism, Leninism and Stalinism alike.

    As I’ve belabored before, US (and Western) ruling and governing classes are tired and ready for CCP China to lead. That was true pre-Trump but his win in 2016 forced them to go Loud and Proud early.

    For good reason, China looks like the “strong horse” at the moment. You haven’t been paying attention if you give all or even the determinative amount of the credit to the CCP.

    Accept the broad sweep, the CCP broke a lot of eggs consolidating China internally. It then spent the last three decades exploiting the weaknesses and rot that developed in the American Project under the playful delusion of “exceptionalism.”

    I know it makes most feel bad about themselves to hear, but Trump and MAGA are all that’s been exceptional of late in the sense of being quintessentially American.

    With Clinton and Bush the POTUS became a figurehead/pitchman, and to an increasing degree under Obama so that in no meaningful sense was he, or is he, or does he even present himself any longer as American. Now they’ve installed a “Yeltsin” in the form of “Biden.”

    It took me a long time to figure out that “Hindsight is easy” is inversely correlated with how smart someone thinks he is. Who forecast Russia would right its ship in two short decades? Believe me, it ain’t the ones who are still selling their bright idea to drive Russia into a Strategic Alliance with China.

    For lack of a better term, the anti-Trump alignment, foreign and domestic, is applying ever more force to consolidate its illegitimate hold on power. Just accept that it ain’t over yet as they attempt to plug-n-play “our democracy” in substitution for the Constitution (Obama calls it “just a piece of parchment”) and free and fair elections.

  61. Anon[195] • Disclaimer says:
    @Angharad

    BALLS. Jew money moved everything to China because the Chinese are PERFECT bugmen. JEWS are running China.

    You got that right. The Tribe is in control in China and Xe is their stooge and gopher. The Chinese were always flunkies of some other race. They think they are so smart but are as dumb as ever. This time around though, they are in the hands of a truly rapacious bunch. Not even Bruce Lee with his fake Kung Fu can save them from the Krav Maga of the Hasbaras.

    The politico members of the CCP are getting their pockets filled with shekels while the average Chinese worker wonders how his is going to buy his next bowl of rice and some old fish heads.

    The Chinese “miracle” is that all their money will end up being looted, plundered and stolen by the Yoos. The Hoodinisteins will make it all disappear, like magic !

  62. Miro23 says:
    @anonymous

    OK China isn’t perfect, but it’s also not as bad as it’s made out to be.

    This Dutch lady has been living and working there for 10 years and videoblogs about it:

  63. Yee says:

    AaronB,

    “The world should be moving towards the relaxed European model that prioritizes quality of life and not work.
    ……
    but must slave away in their shitty jobs to enrich the CCP elite.”

    Yeah, imagine our shock when some Chinese come back from America with tales that many Americans work 2 jobs…

  64. The China miracle was created by David Rockefeller and his corporate henchmen, when he opened up China’s slave labor to the ZUS corporations and deindustrialized the ZUS by moving the industrial might of America to China, there was no China miracle , it was the transfer of one nations wealth and might to a backward nation under communist control.

    • Replies: @antibeast
  65. @CelestiaQuesta

    Mega-cope. Talk about being on the wrong side of history!

  66. antibeast says:
    @Bombercommand

    A friend of mine knows a Chinese lady who paid her condo mortgage by dividing the bedrooms in half and cramming in two tenants to a tiny condo bedroom, even put a partition wall in the kitchen to add an extra tenant. The Chinese bring their “insect slave” mentality with them when they emigrate. Imagine what it is like in China.

    Imagine what it was like in New York City:

    Did those Europeans bring their “insect slave” mentality with them when they emigrated to the ‘Land of the Brave, Home of the Free’? Or did they have to suffer and die like “insect slaves” as epidemics periodically swept through New York City as shown in the graph below:

    I am not sure your rosy prognosis for China’s future is realistic.

    Maybe that’s because you’ve never been to China. The standard of living of Chinese cities like Chengdu can easily surpass that of Western cities like Toronto, with a much lower cost of living to boot. Here’s a video of a Western expat in Chengdu which is a Tier-2 city in the Southwest China:

    Everything that Western expat is showing in the above video was built during the last ten years. And that’s the future of China.

    • Replies: @Bombercommand
  67. Rahan says:
    @Supply and Demand

    The first globohomo fellow Chinese people Millenials and Zoomers are already popping up hither and yon, so maybe try to figure out ways of safely mentioning certain elements that contributed to the sharp dismantling of the West over the last 20-30 years, in such ways as to not paint a target on your back, yet prepare the local Han for the challenges ahead and maybe help them keep the infecion out…

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  68. anon[314] • Disclaimer says:

    The Chinese, 92% one ethnic group (Han), like each other.
    The USA does not like each other. They attempt to move away from each other and are often afraid of each other. The unelected rule the screens in the USA. The USA has too many lazys, too many druggies, too many sex-obsessed, too many victimhood-olympics-partisans. The USA calls bad things good, and good things bad.

    We are at the beginning of a new solar minimum, and tempretures are going to fall, not rise, until the early 2050s. This will affect agriculture.

  69. anon[327] • Disclaimer says:

    There is a Chinese saying that wealth does not transfer across three generations: the first generation grew up poor and worked hard to attain the wealth, the second generation grew up watching the first generation strive to attain its wealth, so it is careful to preserve that wealth and even to grow it. The third generation however, grew up in wealth, does not know its value and often end up squandering it.

    The same can be said of societies at large. Most dynasties/empires go through a period of conquer, followed by prosperity, and eventually, decline.

    Owing to the empires around them like the Tibetans, Western Turks and Northern nomadic tribes being mired in civil wars, the Song Dynasty (around the 1100’s) enjoyed a prolong period of relative peace and prosperity, and they forgot how to fight. Eventually the perpetual warring tribes in the north and the south started attacking them, and their relatively rusty and weak army couldn’t mount a defense. They ended up having to pay tributes to the “barbarian” nomads to keep peace. But the Song emperor was also wise, he launched a campaign for his meritocratic bureaucrats culled from the smartest among the populace to come up with new weapons, and this was when the formula for gunpowder was first discovered on paper. Unfortunately they were attacked again before they could put all that into practice and ended up losing the empire.

    The West has been in a period of relative peace and prosperity since 1945 and is now going through decline. But the imperialist power running this country is trying to avoid the faith of forgetting how to fight, so it’s constantly drumming up wars with imaginary enemies to keep its fighting forces ever at the ready and weapons ever sharpened. All the wars we keep fighting ensure our military never forgets how to fight. The Chinese military has never really been tested. Nor the Russians. This period of prosperity in China will only further deter their fighting zeal. Military exercises are not the same as the real war.

    Meanwhile, BRI as it’s currently planned will only help further extend US dominance in the world by bringing 5G internet connection everywhere. The online sphere is the final frontier, including the frontier for cyber warfare. Countries that really want to break free from the US must come up with their own alternate internet. As long as they continue to use the world wide web, they are subjected to outsized US influence as it is dominated and controlled by US run companies such as Google, Facebook, Twitter, Apple, Microsoft, Netflix, US run media such as NYTimes, CNN, WSJ etc. and by US military and intelligence agencies. So, instead of creating a separate block from the imperialist, BRI might inadvertently help extend its reach and ensure the CCP’s own demise as US uses its soft power like entertainment, media, academia, culture(however insidious) to influence hearts and minds including those in China.

  70. This is very interesting.

    This modern China looks really impressive!

    HAPPY ANNIVERSARY PEOPLE’S REPUBLIC OF CHINA

    Here’s a question I would like to know the answer to:

    China is run presently and firmly by her Communist Party. I don’t think it ever likely to fall soon, so it need not fear, but if the Party were to fall or collapse in the near future who would likely be replacements? Are there indeed any favorites? Northerners, Southerners, Shanghai Businessmen, exiled Monarch? Liberal or Democrat?

    I have absolutely no idea!

    Maybe the Communist Party in China really is as good as it gets in a really tough world: after all, they got all the steel, all the people, all the determination, all the money, and all the best food! And anyway, they like it that way.

    Well Done CHINA

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  71. frankie p says:
    @Francis Miville

    May, 2021

    The Jerusalem Post (also reported widely through western media)

    Chinese truthtellers put the west to shame (except for the Unz Review, the Occidental Observer and a few other sites)

    “Israel is a US military proxy that enjoys US support because of the influence of wealthy Jews, Chinese government-affiliated English-language news channel CGTN said Tuesday in a video posted online.
    In a video titled “Why does the US act as a diplomatic shield for Israel?” presenter Zheng Junfeng floated a version of the theory, found in The Protocols of the Elders of Zion and other antisemitic tracts, that Jews control government policies by nefarious means.

    The video opened by describing China’s anger with the US for blocking a UN Security Council resolution against Israel this week and questioning why successive US presidents have supported Israel.
    “Some people believe that US pro-Israel policy is traceable to the influence of wealthy Jews in the US and the Jewish lobby on US foreign-policy-makers,” Zheng said.”

  72. Smith says:

    Congratulation too soon, USA is not down yet.

  73. Baxter says:
    @Yee

    I think this is a very accurate formula of what makes for national success, especially the point about a populace with strong organizing skills-skills that should be learned independent of government initiatives. In America individualism is a concept at the heart of liberal democracy. I use the term liberal in the classical sense. However, the individualism engendered by liberalism has, until recently been chastised and moderated by Protestant Christianity. If you remove the religion what you are left with is unbridled individualism, which appears to be what we have now in America. So in the absence of social self-regulation, we increasingly have government forced self-control. This has not addressed the root of the problem, but led to more government interference in private life. In that regard, I can’t distinguish between totalitarianism in America or China.

    • Agree: Daniel Rich
  74. hardcore planning

    This article is written like pornography. It is designed to arouse a certain type of man, who has long thought himself just too competent and too rational, for this world. I doubt it tells me anything about China. It is selling a fantasy to a certain type of fantasist.

    • Troll: Mevashir
    • Replies: @Mevashir
  75. antibeast says:
    @AaronB

    Yes, but that’s only one side of the Chinese character.

    Nothing to do with ‘Chinese character’ because all poor immigrants behave the same way in the West. It’s a logical fallacy to attribute either ‘race/ethnicity’ or ‘culture/religion’ to what is in fact a socio-economic phenomenon which would explain the behavior of Chinese immigrants in the West. If you go back 100-200 years ago, European immigrants were doing the same thing in US cities like New York. Here’s a photo of European immigrants living in New York back then:

    https://www.history.com/topics/immigration/tenements

    In New York City–where the population doubled every decade from 1800 to 1880–buildings that had once been single-family dwellings were increasingly divided into multiple living spaces to accommodate this growing population. Known as tenements, these narrow, low-rise apartment buildings–many of them concentrated in the city’s Lower East Side neighborhood–were all too often cramped, poorly lit and lacked indoor plumbing and proper ventilation. By 1900, some 2.3 million people (a full two-thirds of New York City’s population) were living in tenement housing.

    One final word: the original poster cited the plight of Chinese immigrants living in Western cities which had been built with obsolete technologies of the 20th century. That only proves that their standard of living in Western cities is lower than that of Chinese cities which have been built with the latest technologies of the 21st century. And that’s the future of China.

  76. @Ultrafart the Brave

    I’d go back a little further than the ’70’s. The promising future of the USA died on 11-22-1963, when JFK was assassinated by forces within the Deep State, a treasonous act which may or may not have been masterminded by his evil successor. By the 1970’s the country was already on its way down hill after it lost, and deserved to lose, its 10 year long Vietnam folly, which JFK, had he lived and won a second term, would have avoided.

    Another pivotal date was 1965, when the civilizational destroying Hart-Celler Act was passed, setting into motion the inexorable death of Heritage America. Now it’s too late for this wicked would-be Hegemon. Its insane drive for Full Spectrum Dominance has become but a pipe dream.

    I’m glad that China is winning (and Russia, too). And I’m sick and tired of hearing about the supposed “genocide” of the Chinese Uighur Muslims when the despised White Man is being slowly “genocided” in this degenerate country by the globalist Powers-That-Be.

  77. antibeast says:
    @Desert Fox

    The China miracle was created by David Rockefeller and his corporate henchmen, when he opened up China’s slave labor to the ZUS corporations and deindustrialized the ZUS by moving the industrial might of America to China, there was no China miracle , it was the transfer of one nations wealth and might to a backward nation under communist control.

    No shit! Maybe that would explain why the USA does NOT have high-speed rail because David Rockefeller took America’s high-speed rail to China! LOL!

    • Replies: @HeebHunter
  78. Leo Den says:
    @Anonymous

    What everyone seems to forget here is that the American miracle occurred first, and China piggybacked on it. Still, I’m not trying to take anything away from China, what they have done is outstanding.

    Their luck is that they don’t have an APARTHEID Israhell and its elite in the US sucking it dry.

    America’s tumble has been precipitated by its obsession with the needs of the racist Jewish state to reconfigure the Middle East to benefit the Apartheid country.

    In the process, the US got blindsided and bankrupt while China and Russia became powerhouses themselves, ready to knock the US Empire off its perch.

    Such happenstance is truly God’s doing to impede the Evil American Empire, as wagged by the Evil State of Israel, to become much worse than it already has.

    http://biblicisminstitute.wordpress.com/2014/08/05/israel-the-scourge-of-empires/

    • Replies: @A.K.Patal
  79. Mevashir says:

    As detailed by Renmin University Professor Wang Yiwei, BRI is about to reshape geopolitics, “bringing Eurasia back to its historical place at the center of human civilization.” Wang has shown how “the two great civilizations of the East and the West were linked until the rise of the Ottoman Empire cut off the Ancient Silk Road”.

    Europe moving seaward led to “globalization through colonization”; the decline of the Silk Road; the world’s center shifting to the West; the rise of the U.S.; and the decline of Europe. Now, Wang argues, “Europe is faced with a historic opportunity to return to the world center through the revival of Eurasia.”

    And that’s exactly what the Hegemon will go no holds barred to prevent.

    Fascinating article. I wish the Chinese every blessing and success for the sake of the entire global community. Does anyone actually prefer McDonald’s to Chinese food?

    The Chinese are confident intelligent and seem to interact with the world on the best level rather than the worst warmongering level.

  80. Erebus says:
    @Kramer

    China has never criticized Israel, to my knowledge.

    Your knowledge is obviously limited.

    Admittedly, they’ve haven’t chanted “death to Israel”, but no responsible world power player would chant “death to…” anybody. OTOH, China has always maintained that the Palestinian issue is the “core issue in the Middle East” and has repeatedly said that it supports a 2 state solution based in the Palestinian people’s claims on political, moral and humanitarian grounds.

    … all of their production capacity will be moved somewhere else, just like it was moved away from the West.

    Wrong again. Too late for that, China punked ’em. Aside from imports (energy and raw materials), China is very close to not needing the rest of the world. Hence the marriage of mutual convenience with Russia. Sanctions won’t work beyond inconveniencing some less than patriotic elites.

    The critical flaw in your statement lies in the fact that China does not allow the export of used production eqpt, so plants can’t simply be rolled up and shipped en masse to another location as they were during the West’s “Great Sellout” of the ’90s and early 2000s. You see, the CPC had read the gameplan and counter-planned accordingly. It really was too smart for the West’s greedy elites who dreamed of ruling China from behind the curtains. Only Kissinger had an inkling of what the US was up against when he told Nixon: “They’re smarter than us”.

    In sum, China’s internal market now drives the Chinese economy to a level not well recognized by the RoW. There’s a great many large, successful companies making everything from beer to cars that the RoW has little knowledge of catering solely to the Chinese market. Short of all-out war, that train left the station some time ago.

    • Thanks: Mevashir
  81. Anonymous[548] • Disclaimer says:

    A lot of butthurt Americans and a lot of completely outlandish analysis ranging from “the Jews own China which is full of insect people” to “China is planning to destroy Israel with the help of Iran”.

    It’s obvious that nobody here knows anything about China.

    • Agree: Mulga Mumblebrain
  82. @AaronB

    Wrong.

    Recent law changes have capped housing price increases through controlling mortgage amounts, cram schools are being closed in mass due to policy changes to give students free time on weekends, and more rights are given to new mothers (3 months leave, likely to expand further) than what you have in America.

    The ultimate goal is to create a healthy population that is reproducing at a steady rate while ending the collective individualist struggle into the social elite that has been characteristic of 21st century China.

  83. Mevashir says:
    @Triteleia Laxa

    This article is written like pornography. It is designed to arouse a certain type of man, who has long thought himself just too competent and too rational, for this world. I doubt it tells me anything about China. It is selling a fantasy to a certain type of fantasist.

    About the dumbest most useless comment I’ve ever seen on Unz.

    If this article doesn’t tell you anything about China it’s because you’re an idiot. Maybe even a hardup porn addict.

  84. frontier says:
    @John Pepple

    A lot of corporations realized that they could avoid all these hassles with the left simply by moving their factories

    You are placing the cart before the horse here. “All these hassles” were created in order to push the industry off-shore, while the GOP made sure there were no obstacles on the way out – Republicans are and have always been the champions of the Free Trade BS which ruined America. You’re confusing the tools with the tool master.

    During the time of mass exodus, 2003-2012 under Bush/Obama, there were at least 10 bills introduced in Congress asking to restore the balance of the US trade relations. All of them sponsored by Democrats. The bills died without any Republican support and anemic interest from the vast mass majority of Democrats. The two parties act in tandem, the disagreements are just a clown show. Anyone who still believes “their” party is on their side is a moron. The GOP/Dems wanted the money for their wars and they lost the wars, the money and the industry.

    This bill asked to implement Warren Buffet’s idea of fair trade:
    https://www.congress.gov/bill/109th-congress/senate-bill/3899

    • Replies: @Sick of Orcs
    , @profnasty
  85. @AaronB

    I actually broadly agree with both your, quite concise, comments. My reply was a counterpoint to your linked article, which described 6 day weeks, low pay, constant survelliance etc, to point out that those same conditions are imposed on Chinese by Chinese, surrepticiously and illegally, in First World Canada, not just in China, and so is just “a phase” due to rapid development.

    • Troll: Mulga Mumblebrain
  86. Poco says:
    @Supply and Demand

    You can bet that malignant pustules like you and your maggot ancestors were the deracintors of America.

    • Replies: @Supply and Demand
  87. @Cyrano

    The ideal ally for Russia in Asia is Japan. They are similar in population sizes and together they can counterbalance China not only in Asia, but on the world’s stage.

    Perhaps you are a CIA operative or similar westerner thinking only in terms of (shifting) alliances, temporary blocs waging war on other temporary blocs.

    In reality, if ever there is a Rus-Jap link it will benefit both those great nations/cultures to ally with China, as is already happening with Russia … The major benefit to any nation in the world today would be to close out USA, its bases, and its zio-freemason MIC warmongering such as in the strategy you have outlined.

    At present the only thing in US favour is the US\$, which is faltering.
    So that day draws closer.
    It is to be hoped for the sake of ordinary Americans that they can get a govt to represent them and not the criminal Hyena as at present.

    • Agree: nokangaroos
  88. Dystopian says:
    @Anonymous

    The boot licking Borg live here too. However, Resistance is futile. Given the current trajectory of western governments we will live under someone’s tyranny whether we like it or not.

  89. @antibeast

    You don’t even understand my point to begin with, but you dig up a photo from 1880 to try to refute me? My point was Chinese attitudes to and treatment of other Chinese. This “Chinese condo lady” could only purchase her condo because the Canadian government guarantees all mortgages, (otherwise the bank would never lend to her), and maintains monetary policies that support 2% mortgages and 10% down payments, but “Chinese condo lady” wants to pay for her condo by packing in tenants above the legal occupancy limit and overcharging for rent, like it is the 19th century. You’re ridiculous. Your response to the second “block quote” is pure Straw Man Fallacy. I was doubting the assertion by AaronB that the Chinese will soon be working humane hours and conditions. Nothing will change except North Americans will be shoved down to the same conditions the Chinese slaves endure.

    • Troll: Mulga Mumblebrain
    • Replies: @antibeast
  90. @Supply and Demand

    Just stay on the good side of Winnie the Xi. Don’t want to be executed without a trial…

    • Replies: @Supply and Demand
  91. @frontier

    The two parties act in tandem, the disagreements are just a clown show.

    Democrats push the radical agenda.

    Republicans weakly oppose them then throw the fight.

    Lather, rinse, repeat.

    #Uniparty

    • Agree: Robert Bruce
  92. @Mulga Mumblebrain

    20-odd years ago, Mulga, I was visiting friends in locations from Brisbane down to Sydney and up in the Blue Ridge Mts.

    It was when Oz had made very advantageous trade-deals with China, there was open talk of Oz being an “Asian Nation”. There were side-debates abt Indonesia etc somehow invading (lol) but that didn’t seem a realistic scenario to me or the people I knew. There was talk also abt the rise of China as a regional hegemon … “I don’t fear that” was the common reaction of those I knew and they said it was the common attitude.

    Now that Oz has renaged on those trade-deals apparently at the behest of tele-evangelists and other insane Americans, the country’s future which looked very rosy when I was there seems now to be in the balance and not too optimistically so.

    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
  93. @SolontoCroesus

    shirer was another typical filthy amerimutt who is burning in hell for being an usurious piece of shit. Seriously, now that we reflect back on all the years after the death of the West, I do see that the kikes, while being evil in nature, are much less vile than the “huwhites” who helped them. Jews are like cockroaches, they cant help it. But to be a goy and help them, tsch tsch…

    Heh, it looks like that entire shithole is going to hell soon. 1945 payback!

  94. @antibeast

    [You have previously been warned about too many content-free rants, filled with profanities and racial/ethnic slurs. Keep things up and all your comments will get trashed.]

  95. @Old Brown Fool

    The American government is also intrusive, so is the UK Government as is the French and German. Should I go on??
    If you are an important target to them, be sure they have the ability to dig out the goods on you. Stop believing in this Western Democracybullshit. Take a minute to google Julian Assange’s fate. So much for freedom of speech.
    You, I, we, them and all us Goys are screwed.

  96. Cyrano says:
    @antibeast

    You are right. It will probably never happen – the partnership between Russia and Japan. Too much history and geography between these two countries. But then again, Japan at one point had territorial ambitions not only against Russia, but against China too. Let them try playing that card now – asking for a piece of land from China and see how that goes. What I am saying is that maybe Japan will one day come to its senses, or maybe the reality will force them to do it.

    • Replies: @antibeast
    , @showmethereal
  97. I can’t wait for the day when we the violin is replaced by the urhu – such a versatile instrument.

  98. anon[187] • Disclaimer says:
    @Alfa158

    Isn’t that the fate of the people under the capitalism ? Isn’t taht the inevitable journey capitalism has to take?

    We might think we will get a better deal because we belong to white race or are citizen of USA-UK-Australia . We think our interest will be always met and addressed as per the bond. It never was and would never be .Feudalism nor capitalism ever managed to cross the barrier imposed by nepotism and by individualism to reach the common members .

    Blacks in Congo are as dispensable as are the whites from Kansas or Idaho.

    People are freaking stupid. They today manage to unite under “white nationalism “in Europe after fighting for centuries among themselves and after treating the S Europe as inferior non whites (Greek and Italians ) for decades .

    Without Chinese market and without Mexican factories ,American place in the world would not have been where it found itself after 1980 -the very history the “white “nationalist were proud until it hurt them in the face in 2008 a direct development of the processes that gave rise of the new middle class and installed “American Dreams” among the millions who possibly don’t deserve to have a good night sleeps .

  99. antibeast says:
    @Bombercommand

    You’re using the grand total of ONE sample case of a Chinese immigrant in ‘First World Canada’ which you think represent how ‘Chinese treat Chinese’ in China? Really? Have you been to China at all?

    The rat race in China is real but it’s mostly concentrated in the coastal cities which have experienced breakneck growth over the last 40 years. But the last ten years have seen a back to the hinterland movement in China where young people want to start their careers in less costly inland cities and with less frenetic lifestyles. The video that I linked above shows Chengdu which has been built over the last ten years. I have personally witnessed this phenomenon myself as I moved to Shenzhen where the 9-9-6 workaholic lifestyle originated. Coming from Silicon Valley, this 9-9-6 workaholic lifestyle is nothing new as Shenzhen serves as a manufacturing hub for global companies which are located all over the world. If you have lived or worked in Silicon Valley, then you would know what I am talking about. In fact, the housing costs in San Francisco and Silicon Valley is so high that young workers are forced to live in overcrowded and illegally subdivided apartments and houses. Some Silicon Valley workers even live in cars!!!

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-05-21/silicon-valley-s-shame-living-in-a-van-in-google-s-backyard

    How would you describe those Silicon Valley tech workers now? ‘Insect slaves’? LOL!

    If you want to compare Western society with Chinese society, then there’s no comparison there in terms of traditional Asian values with liberal Western ideals. Social cohesion in China is far greater than in the post-Modern West where individuals live atomized lifestyles unlike Asian societies which puts family, community and tradition ahead of individual freedoms and lifestyles.

    I cited New York City of the 19th century because the USA was a rapidly developing country at the time with millions of European immigrants flooding into cities like New York and living in squalid conditions. That is a SOCIO-ECONOMIC phenomenon that has nothing to do with their RACE/ETHNICITY but everything to do with the economic conditions of the USA as a rapidly developing country during the 19th century, much like China was during the last 40 years. You were trying to attribute what it is in fact a SOCIO-ECONOMIC phenomenon — SOCIAL CHANGES caused by rapid ECONOMIC GROWTH — to some proverbial RACIAL/ETHNIC character. I could say the same thing about those European immigrants living in squalid tenements back then and attribute it to their ‘insect slave’ mentality which is complete, total nonsense.

    • Replies: @Bombercommand
  100. @Realist

    Plenty of dummies in the USA but, you better go spend time in South America before claiming that North Americans are the dumbest. You’ll learn differently.

    • Replies: @Realist
  101. @Nostradamus

    What is interesting is that a Wesley Clark appears on this list, see…..

    https://www.reteccp.org/biblioteca/disponibili/guerraepace/potere/comitato300/Ruling-Oligarchy.pdf

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wesley_Clark

    Who does he hang out with???? Most of these are probably evil.

    https://www2.gmu.edu/news/2018-03/wesley-clark-michael-hayden-discuss-us-russia-cold-war-20-0

    https://www.forbes.com/2009/11/09/wesley-clark-soldiers-leadership-power-09-warriors_slide.html?sh=3d768b602079

    ???? So this makes Wesley Clark a Bad Guy? Why did “they” want us to know about 7 countries in 5 years????

  102. antibeast says:
    @Cyrano

    If you read the history of East Asia, then you would know that Japan was the most aggressive in expanding its territory due to its need for natural resources as well as its small land area. That’s why Japan invaded and occupied Sakhalin Island from 1800s onwards. Russia then moved into the Northern part of Sakhalin after a brief war with Japan which then succeeded in kicking out Russia after the latter’s defeat in the Russo-Japanese War. Several wars later the USSR then managed to finally retake Sakhalin Island and kick out the Japanese after WWII.

    Japan’s status as a vassal State of the USA complicates the geopolitics of East Asia even more as both China and Russia are geopolitical rivals of the USA. Due to its militaristic past, Japan does not have much geopolitical options except to accept its ‘finlandization’ by both China and Russia after the USA withdraws its military from Japan in the near future. The two Koreas are quite hostile to a military buildup of Japan which the USA intends as a counterweight to China or Russia. Southeast Asian countries are also hostile to a military buildup of Japan given its sordid history during WWII.

    • Replies: @Che Guava
  103. Druid55 says:
    @Aglan

    I am a believer but hate preaching on sites like these. Go do it in a desert!

  104. @John Pepple

    Wrong. Offshore was cheaper. Once transportation costs became cheap enough, bob’s your uncle. No “leftist” input necessary. You don’t exactly understand the logic of capitalismo.

  105. “To seek truth from facts, not from dogmas, whether from East or West”.

    Good Lord, don’t they realize the Enlightenment is poison! It leads directly and inevitably to Drag Queen Story Hour! Quick, send E Michael Jones over to evangelize them before it’s too late!

  106. @103 ImaBotKnot

    So you think Wesley Clark is a good guy, eh, because he spilled the beans and told us about the Pentagon’s plan to overthrow 7 countries in the next 5 years? Well remember that same Wesley Clark did his best to start WW3 in Kosovo when he gave orders to fire upon Russian international peacekeepers at the Pristina International Airport. Fortunately someone had more sense and ignored Clark’s order.

  107. bayviking says:

    China is doing what the US used to do. Building a competitive economy by building a low cost infrastructure for businesses to operate in. Now it’s all about paper shuffling in a financialized service economy. The virtuous cycle between production and consumption has been broken domestically. Globalization locks the American worker out.

    • Agree: Boomthorkell, Miro23
  108. Che Guava says:

    Pepe,

    You are, at times, an interesimg writer.

    I don’t see why you adopt the same style as ignorant loons.

    The correct form in English is ‘Communist Party of China’, so CPC, not CCP.

    It seems that this is still the party’s preferred style.

    Irritating, especially when loons who would like a war with them inevitably use ‘Chinese Communist Party’ and ‘CCP’ as a kind of forced meme.

  109. Che Guava says:
    @antibeast

    Japan now has long had a huge re-established Navy ❨On Ocean Self-Defence Force❩, the fleet of the Maritime Safety Authority (Coastguard) is largely a reserve fleet for it. I once saw a review of most of the latter, an immense fleet.

    Commercial ships, such as large ferries that carry vehicles, are also designed for dual use.

    South Korea has a similar structure, on a smaller scale except perhaps on the last point.

    South-East Asian countries, sure, there was much bad behaviour, but

    both Indonesia and Myanmar/Burma polities have direct lines of descent from the Imperial Army and

    Thailand was an ally.

  110. @SolontoCroesus

    Hitler and also Mussolini did something

    Indeed they did.
    I can’t find the video, but a couple of years back, there was a trickster quoting Hitler in front of a “woke” crowd, likely Antifa. All of them were cheering.
    Ezra Pound was a dangerous man.
    https://counter-currents.com/2010/10/ezra-pound-march-15-1942/

    • Replies: @profnasty
  111. Realist says:
    @The Real World

    Plenty of dummies in the USA but, you better go spend time in South America before claiming that North Americans are the dumbest.

    You seem to be dazed and confused…I didn’t say that.

    • Replies: @The Real World
  112. Thim says:

    Young Chinese are so rich, so incredibly affluent, that they cannot afford to marry and have children, and have no land, none at all.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  113. @SafeNow

    One component of the China takeover of manufacturing is that they trained thousands as interpreters specializing in sourcing and factory tours.

    Another and more important (imho) factor was that from even before the declaration of the PRC, the Communists were very keen on educating people, particularly in the STEM disciplines and on building industrial capacity. When the Western capitalists arrived in China after the “opening up”, they found a lot of very skilled workers and technicians and capable scientists. There was also a large industrial base to build on and basic infrastructure in place. This was done under Mao’s guidance. (For which, of course, he gets no kudos in the west!)

  114. profnasty says:
    @frontier

    The Bush Bastard defended tax law that made the factory moving expense, to China, tax deductible.
    Obama complained about it.

  115. @Arthur MacBride

    Arthur, they are the Blue Mountains, and very scenic they are. When they aren’t on fire, of course.
    Austfailia is terminally fucked. We have the most Evil and incompetent regime yet, an Opposition of utter uselessness, full of treacherous ‘rats’, many on the US Embassy’s ‘protected sources’ list. Our leaders, ALL total stooges of the US and Israel, decided, on orders from the Five Eyes racist colonist regimes, but out of innate racism, too, about ten years ago, that China had to be ‘brought down’. The local Federal regimes, both Labor and Verminous, commenced spitting in China’s face, driven on by the Murdoch media cancer, and by the Government-owned ABC. Positive stories about China had never appeared in over forty years of diplomatic relations, but now the negative outbursts grew ever more deranged, vile and racist.
    The Chinese ignored our racist viciousness for a while, but then began to respond. Giving a nation of belligerent racists sixty billion or so a year in trade surpluses to be spent with our Yankee Bosses’ arms industry, for use against China, just wasn’t going to go on. Naturally that gave the racists an opportunity to ramp up the hate even more, and now various gibbering, far-Right racists, many ex-Army, Pentecostal, psychopaths, others in ‘think-tanks’ financed by US MIC corporations and the US State Department, are openly yelping for ‘WAR!”. Meanwhile climate destabilisation will soon render much of Indonesia uninhabitable, and those tens of millions are not just going to sit still and die, so our 200 years of ownership of and destruction of this continent is about to end. No amount of racist bitching is going to stop that. I imagine world sympathy will be minimal.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  116. profnasty says:
    @Rahan

    Funny funny words.
    The Repugs have reduced our standard of living by immigration labor treason. (Bush Bastards)
    The Dems are facilitating an immigration race war.
    (Obama-rhama)
    fify.

  117. profnasty says:
    @Ron Unz

    Sheldon Cooper. IQ 180.

  118. @Cyrano

    Too bad Japan at present time is in an abusive relationship and they are not allowed to date new partners. But the times pass and come for everything.”

    You obviously know f*** all about Japan and the Japanese.

    It’s a ff-ing US colony, just like Germany.

    Move around the globe, dude, and your blinkers will come off.

    • Replies: @Cyrano
  119. @frankie p

    The striking thing about the book, however, is that besides Stilwell, nearly every US official who learned the language and culture had similar opinions.”

    ‘We’, in the west, slay Ryu [dragons]. In the East they admire them.

    That, in a very primitive nutshell, explains the difference between East and West.

    Nothing bout being right or wrong, though.

  120. @onebornfree

    I fervently hope that the USA continues to follow imbeciles like you, onebornfucked. Truly, madly and deeply. The sooner you go around the S-bend of history, the better.

  121. @antibeast

    No, I cited two, very differant cases, which you conflate to one. I used the “10 hours/day-6 days/week-\$200/week” example because AaronB linked an article about “6 days a week slaves”. What I see is the same sordid exploitation in China and Canada by the same Chinese actors. Toronto is a place where \$400/month for food is the bare minimum(no fruit, variety of vegetables, snacks, juice or even cheap takeout meals on that budget). How could any human being treat another that way? So yes, I think the Chinese do have a problem. The “Chinese condo lady’s” scam has nothing to do with rapid economic growth in China or 1880’s America. She is pulling her scam in Canada in the 21st century. She is using generous Canadian government subsidies that enabled her to buy a condo with 10% down and a 2% mortgage. But she treats her tenants, who pay her mortgage, like 19th century slaves in a slum. She is sucking from both ends, it’s grotesque. Do you get it now? You seem unable to grasp the most simple intellectual assertions. Yes, it is true, I have never been to China, but I live in a neighborhood that is 2/3rds Chinese and have had intimate dealing with them for decades. I will take the word of my friend Ming who bluntly told me “In China, 90% of the marriages are without love”. I thought of having an affair with her, she’s a good girl like all Chinese girls, but I figure she would ask me to help her kill her husband. I’m serious, I could see that coming. Then there is David Chen, of “The Lucky Moose”(Toronto, look it up, who self righteously locked up a shoplifter in a panel van, charges of unlawful confinement dropped after pressure from the Chinese community). Meanwhile he defrauds his customers by bleaching spoiled salmon and selling it as fresh, putting ordinary tomatoes in packaging marked “organic”, ordinary eggs sold as organic, and nifty side businesses out of his building like a speakeasy and a methamphetamine lab (you could smell it in the alley off Dundas St W at 3AM). I truly respect the Chinese for their deep love and pride in their country, people, culture and language, but given my experience, I cannot take Pepe Escobar, Godfree Roberts or yourself seriously. Finally, if you want a cynical assessment of America and Americans, I’ve got plenty for ya, a lot more than you got(I’m American BTW). I got plenty on Canuckistan and Canuckistanis too.

  122. Babyl-on says:

    Why , why, why does the GREAT Pepe Escobar, geopolitical commentator most extraordinary get the name of the political party which rules China wrong?!?!?!

    Pepe please look it up and stop insulting them by constantly using an incorrect name.

  123. @Patricus

    We were not so thoroughly corrupt 100 years ago or half as stupid. We did not glorify the barbarian or go totally insane. My chips are on America going kaput as we know it in 10 years tops. The target date has already been set for 2030 by our supposed betters.

  124. BlackFlag says:
    @Old Brown Fool

    Without the caste system, do you think India would boast the smart fraction that they do? Probably makes India more competitive than it otherwise would have. Plus casteism makes the culture more interesting. Seems like a good trade off.

    • Replies: @Old Brown Fool
  125. BlackFlag says:
    @Bombercommand

    A 6 day work week is normal. Why are Westerners so lazy?
    \$400 per month on food is a ridiculous amount as well.
    I was in the US recently and visited my 90 year old grandma. She had a fat worker paid by the government to come look in on her. The worker was getting like \$50/hour and all she did was clean, bathe the old bird in a sloppy way. Unbelievable the fat that still exists in countries like the USA despite of all the cries of immiseration from clowns like Turchin.

  126. Ginko says:
    @Rubicon

    He had made the rounds quite abit the past few months, would not suprise me if he was just resting up some…

  127. profnasty says:
    @Curmudgeon

    EP. A great American.
    One of the few.

  128. @antibeast

    I will give you a hint: something to do with the island of Japan.”

    Island…?

  129. “In this case, Chinese exceptionalism means respecting Confucianism – which privileges harmony and abhors conflict – as well as Daoism – which privileges balance – over the boisterous, warring, hegemonic Western model.”

    Confusionism and Daoism are manifestly part of old Chinese culture and embracing them and rejecting Communism would benefit them and the rest of the world.

    • Replies: @littlereddot
  130. @anon

    The imperialist power running this country is trying to avoid the faith of forgetting how to fight, so it’s constantly drumming up wars with imaginary enemies to keep its fighting forces ever at the ready and weapons ever sharpened. All the wars we keep fighting ensure our military never forgets how to fight.

    I disagree.

    [1] It is easy to bomb wedding parties, funeral processions, and defenseless villages from the air. However today’s US military would be annihilated in a real war with a real enemy.

    [2] The US military has been crippled by relentless “diversity training.” More and more we are seeing helicopter crews (and soon entire combat groups) consisting of gay people only (no heterosexuals). All heterosexual white male personnel are constantly told they are racist, sexist, “homo-phobic,” “trans-phobic,” and so on. This destroys unity and teamwork.

    [3] The endless dollars thrown at the US military do not produce better weapons, or better war-fighting tactics. All the money is pocketed by the executives of corrupt military contractors, plus other war profiteers. It is strictly a money-grab. Most items produced by today’s military contractors are deliberately designed as garbage, in order to sustain the trillion-dollar welfare program that is military spending.

    Beyond that, American society is coming apart at the seams. To think that the US will be globally dominant into the future is delusion.

    ZOG is done. China is the future

  131. @alwayswrite

    Whats more I’m blown away at how many folks fall for this latest iteration of the axis of evil,talk about useful idiots

    Fortunately, you’re the smart one, the one to follow…

    • Replies: @alwayswrite
  132. @Alfa158

    Luck? There is more than luck involved. Quite simply the least technically competent managers got the promotions in the US during the critical period from 1970 to 2000. The result was that the existing businesses didn’t adapt to the computer age and instead of investing in the new technologies (that were developed in universities) they shipped the production to Mexico and Asia. That was good for the development of those countries but that meant de-industrialization in the US. The California startups took over the retailing sector and they created monopolies in a number of areas further damaging Main Street. China has provided inexpensive products to the US in part because the Japanese, Coreans and Taiwanese outsourced part of their production to plants in China. I write that because I was there. I was there when local universities wanted to help local shoe manufacturing companies develop automation and the owners moving their production anyway. And I was in China where the large plant close to the college I attended was in fact owned by Corean interests and shipping carpets to WalMart in the US. There was a river flowing and the Chinese were there to catch the fish, if you will.

  133. @Mulga Mumblebrain

    Let me cite a random example to show how the world is turning away from ZOG, and embracing China.

    At the most recent G7 summit (11–13 June 2021) Biden and the other clowns proposed an initiative they called “Build Back Better World” (B3W) as an answer to China’s One Belt, One Road initiative (OBOR).

    “Build Back Better World” (B3W) promotes ZOG supremacy by keeping the world divided and miserable. It involves the United States Agency for International Development (USAID), whose mission is to prevent development, and to keep people forever trapped in the bare minimum of living standards by providing only rudimentary infrastructure, like small solar panels and ad-hoc water towers.

    USAID is designed to disrupt unifying national projects, and to encourage local communities to make do with crude infrastructure. Its purpose is to kill development across entire regions, and to thereby keep foreign nations weak, and also to keep communities dependent on US handouts, so that foreign communities don’t cooperate with their own governments. Such communities are ripe for “color revolutions.”

    USAID is one reason why so much of the world remains primitive today.

    Put another way, ZOG rules by keeping people enslaved.

    By contrast, China’s One Belt, One Road initiative (OBOR) seeks to promote authentic development. China builds roads, dams, bridges, highways, railways, pipelines, and power grids throughout the world, with no political strings attached, and without armies of foreign “activists” hijacking national sovereignty.

    China does not demand that foreign nations become perpetual debt slaves, or build holocaust memorials, or destroy their families, or worship anal sex, tranny supremacy, and “MeToo” feminist psychosis. All these measures are ZOG’s way of keeping people demoralized and helpless.

    With China’s help, Africa is finally coming along, as are many other parts of the world

    ZOG cannot stop China. All ZOG can do is babble garbage about about “human rights,” and try to foment color revolutions.

    Average Americans are oblivious to all this. They are infantile, e.g. “onebornfucked” above. However the rest of the world is acutely aware of it, and the world is increasingly turning to China.

    ZOG is committing suicide. China is the future.

    • Agree: Mulga Mumblebrain
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @nokangaroos
  134. Ber says:
    @Ktulu

    Hmm, something to think about. It has been written that here in the western societies, commemorative memorials that are put up are about warriors or wars, but in China it is about scholars or poets.
    DNA?

  135. Nancy says:
    @Aglan

    OK, preaching is bad but I wonder who really knows what Mary meant by ‘errors of Russia’… ? perhaps giving the reigns to the Bolshevic anti-Christ Talmudists? I personally doubt she was concerned with an economic system, especially ‘saving capialism’.

  136. @Patricus

    It be premature to predict the end of America—not a good bet.

    You are pretty much right. America and Americans are there to stay. I was in China in 2012 and the young people there loved the American pop culture. However one of my young friends told me he did not understand why the American media and politicians always put China under a bad light. He was right. A couple of weeks after I came back home I came across a 130 pragraph long article in the NYT on China. Most of the paragraphs were factual giving an illusion of objectivity to the paper. However some of them were incorrect and the whole showed China in a very negative tone and that didn’t match my experience there at all.

    The American media and the politicians and the deep state together with the concept of American dominance are the ones at risk I think. But as you say they won’t disappear or change tomorrow morning.

  137. Agent76 says:

    Jun 30, 2021 How Mao Zedong Got Away With Mass Murder | Great Leap Forward

    Before China’s Cultural Revolution, Mao Zedong instituted a movement that led to one of the largest man-made famines in history: the Great Leap Forward. Instead of catapulting China into the league of civilized nations, the socialist policies Mao implemented not only killed tens of millions of people, but set China back significantly.

  138. @Che Guava

    Japan has a bright future ahead of itself once it achieves true independence. It will always be a relatively numerous, intelligent, advanced and productive regional power. Even if the horrors of globalized immigration begin to pick up, it still retains a strong racial and cultural homogeny that will see it through at least the next century.

    • Agree: Che Guava
  139. @Sick of Orcs

    The NSA/FBI is going to hunt you down within the next year or so. Even if Xi camps me (highly unlikely given my father in law), you’ll be bound and gagged in a federal prison having negroes and trannies shoving weird objects up your butt to get a confession Abu Ghraib style.

    • Replies: @Sick of Orcs
  140. @Angharad

    Yes, colonized as well. Never forget the disastrous effects of migration in the 19th-century, right about when the Copper Whore of Babylon was put up with her legs spread wide. The colonization of the 20th and 21st-centuries was just an escalation of a bad trend.

    It’s not that I don’t like anyone descended from other parts of Europe. It’s just, Republics only function with communities born and raised in a Republican tradition, with very specific allowance for certain individuals who make the cut. Bringing in millions of ill-educated, monarchist (in cultural inheritance) factory workers and farm laborers is deliberately planning for a failed Republic.

    • Agree: Angharad
  141. @Cyrano

    China overall is still a good partner for Russia, but Japan would be especially so.

    The future looks bright overall.

  142. Seraphim says:
    @Mulga Mumblebrain

    I sadly agree. At the beginning of the pandemic we expressed our awe at the speed and efficiency with which the Chinese addressed the problem (the construction in few days of the hospital in Wuhan) to a life-long friend. We were just returning from a trip to China and sharing our (favorable) impressions. To our utter dismay she started abusing us, accusing us that ‘you are communists’ and cut all our relations.

    • Thanks: Miro23
    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
  143. aspnaz says:

    Such baloney, no doubt paid for by the CCP.

    First, China is an aristocracy, not communism. The CCP own all land and control everybody living on that land: they have a workforce for sale.

    The USA billionaires used that workforce, focusing on the short term and selling the USA down the river in return for cheap labour.

    The CCP took a cut of every transaction. They had previously tried to develop China and had failed – Mao’s ten years plans all failed – but the cheap labour offered the USA billionaires a greater profit.

    China was a third world country and had been for millennia. The western fantasy about China is complete bullshit. For example, the Chinese do not have any form of musical instrument that would be recognised in the west, their only board game is mahjong, they don’t have card games, etc etc. It is more of a cultural dessert than anywhere else on earth.

    Cheap labour and a terrorised workforce has enabled the CCP to become wealthy and powerful.

    Xi played his part by killing off all his competitors in what the west describe as purges on corruption … naive.

    The crucial point is that China could not work if everybody was equal.

    • Troll: antibeast
  144. Cyrano says:
    @Daniel Rich

    Seasons change, feelings change, people change.

    I might add – Countries change. Do you catch my drift?

  145. Biff says:
    @aspnaz

    I love these Chinese threads here on Unz. It’s the commentators like you that make it so entertaining.

    It’s like you put your own balls in a vice before you begin typing – really good stuff – keep it coming.;^)

  146. @Thim

    I was just reading about this as I wanted to find more info on Chinese demographics.

    The reason so many Chinese male or female stay single is because of the bride price. Most of the time it is a huge amount of money. and I mean huge, 1 million yuan is about average = 155,000 usd. And on top of that, the male needs to have a house in a big city, a car, and a job with steady high income. Apartments in major cities near the city centers are a minimum few million yuan = around 500,000 usd.

    How many 20-30 somethings in USA and the entire west have 700,000 usd lying around just so they can date and get marry?

    The Chinese families also spent 50% of their income on raising their kids. We americans only spend 5%. This is why their birth rate fell. They care about their next generation a bit too much.

    With all the above conditions, Chinese birth rate as it is, is already fucking impressive. Very, very fucking impressive.

    • Replies: @nokangaroos
  147. Panadechi says:

    The traditional architecture of the races teach us something. West, Multicultural Third World. go to failure.

  148. loren says:
    @Old Brown Fool

    darkies south indians? dravidians?

    • Replies: @Old Brown Fool
  149. antibeast says:
    @Bombercommand

    No, I cited two, very differant cases, which you conflate to one. I used the “10 hours/day-6 days/week-\$200/week” example because AaronB linked an article about “6 days a week slaves”. What I see is the same sordid exploitation in China and Canada by the same Chinese actors. Toronto is a place where \$400/month for food is the bare minimum(no fruit, variety of vegetables, snacks, juice or even cheap takeout meals on that budget). How could any human being treat another that way? So yes, I think the Chinese do have a problem.

    How’s the case of a Chinese immigrant ‘exploiting’ other Chinese immigrants by paying them cheap not equivalent to European immigrants getting ‘exploited’ during the 19th century or Latino illegals getting ‘exploited’ in the USA today? Those are SOCIO-ECONOMIC phenomena that has nothing to do with RACE/ETHNICITY which you then claim must imply the same in China.

    Well, guess what, China is a SOCIALIST country with its STATE sector accounting for half of its GDP. The PRIVATE sector consists mostly of family-owned SMEs which account for another 40% of its GDP. The CAPITALIST sector comprises the remaining 10% of the Chinese GDP. Most of the labor exploitation occurs in the CAPITALIST sector where a large number of export industries employ migrant workers in sweatshop factories churning out cheap consumer goods for export. That’s where the notorious ‘9-9-6’ workaholic lifestyle originated which doesn’t exist in either the STATE or the PRIVATE sector.

    I don’t deny that there are Chinese exploiting other Chinese in China. What I am refuting is your attempt to impute that SOCIO-ECONOMIC phenomenon to their RACE/ETHNICITY instead of attributing it to rapid economic growth which was causing all kinds of social problems including labor exploitation of migrant worker in sweatshop factories in the coastal cities where export industries are located. CAPITALISM promotes a ‘dog-eat-dog’ ethos which permeated China after Deng introduced ‘market’ reforms during the 80s. The Chinese authorities recognized those SOCIO-ECONOMIC problems early on but delayed any action until the GFC in 2008. That’s when the Chinese authorities decided to restructure the Chinese economy away from serving export markets to serving the domestic market. That’s why China built 35,000kms of high-speed rail lines in order to decongest the coastal cities and promote economic development in the inland provinces. And Chengdu which used to be one of the poorest cities is one of those inland cities benefitting from this ‘dual-circulation’ strategy adopted since the GFC 2008.

    • Troll: Agent76
    • Replies: @Bombercommand
  150. A.K.Patal says:
    @Leo Den

    You put it so nicely. Thank you Leo! The big problem is that we all see problem, but no one is bringing any idea forward on how to untangle the nation from the Apartheid state. And since no one is doing that, the problem will never go away by itself.

  151. @Daniel Rich

    Daniel Rich I’m glad you can see my superior knowledge,and yes you’d do well to follow people like me unless you want to live in a world of vile dictators,unfortunately you sound like you want the comfortable world of Chinese communism,they’ve basically created a hive mind,a real Borg of robotic humanity who have every minute of their lives monitored by stuff like facial recognition AI ,you know even in schools they have this stuff just to make sure you’re thinking the right and correct thoughts,frightening,very very frightening,but thats the future for China,you’re welcome to it 😱

  152. Kramer says:
    @Francis Miville

    A lot of words.

    Did Jewish billionaires orchestrate the transfer of all Western industry to China, for more profit?

    Are they making more profit?

    What else is there to say? They couldn’t make more profit in the West, so they moved their industrial base to China.

  153. Anonymous[370] • Disclaimer says:
    @Nostradamus

    Pure crap.

    China was run – up to the late nineteenth century – by dynasties which deliberately kept all ‘foreign influences out’ and thus held China back to medieval levels of technology and development.
    This was followed by the most rapacious western pseudo colonisation and aggression, which led to the Tai Ping rebellion in which millions died and caused enormous economic loss. The twentieth century brought the turmoil of Japanese aggression and the Chinese civil war, not to mention the cultural revolution. All these resulted in massive turmoil, millions of deaths and untold economic destruction.

    And yet …… the Chinese rose above it all.

  154. @aspnaz

    Racist, Sinophobic, Orientalist, hard Right garbage. China is a democracy in that the Government works for the people, not the rich only. It is meritocratic, rather than plutocratic. China grew at more or less the same rate under Mao as after, but from a very low base with much of the country devastated. Still, illiteracy was nearly done away with, women emancipated for the first time in Chinese history, life expectancy raised from less than forty to nearly seventy and basic industries and infrastructure established.
    Your shite concerning Chinese culture is about as Evil such racist garbage as I have ever seen from any Western supremacist psychopaths, but it is so openly dehumanising, therefore genocidal, as to be useful to illustrate just how deranged Western racists are and ever have been. Evil, evil, evil filth.

    • Troll: Agent76
    • Replies: @aspnaz
  155. @Seraphim

    Here in Austfailia I would put the proportion of dedicated racists at c.20-30%. Anti-racists similar, and those who can be converted to race-hatred by a concerted propaganda campaign, the rest. The hate campaign against China has been and remains the most vicious and totalitarian, with NO dissent allowed anymore, that I have ever seen.

    • Troll: Agent76
  156. Miro23 says:
    @aspnaz

    Where’s the Weird Comment button?

  157. @Supply and Demand

    I love how you think your “connections” will save you. If they want you gone, you’re gone. That’s how totalitarian regimes operate.

    From your banter I detect you’re not Chinese. If that’s the case you will never be considered one of them. If you are Chinese-American, likely the same.

    • Replies: @Supply and Demand
  158. @Joe Paluka

    It is not an either / or situation.

    China has been Confucian and Daoist for more than 2000 years. The influence lives on in Chinese culture and the collective psyche. It affects they way they respond to new ideas like Communism. Of the two, Daoism has more a spiritual appeal so Confucianism has had a much greater influence on Chinese statecraft in all this time. Fortunately for the CPC/CCP, Confucianism is itself very compatible with Communism.

    In a very crude nutshell, Confuciansm boils down to the “the Senior shall have only the Junior’s best interest at heart; and conversely the Junior shall respect the Senior”. Nothing in contradiction with Communism here.

    For this reason the CPC/CCP is very tolerant of Confucianism. Have you checked out the numerous Confucius Institutes established worldwide by the Chinese government?

    Pepe was absolutely right when he mentioned that the CCP is simply the latest of the Chinese dynasties. The way the Chinese view it, just like in the old times of the emperors, it is not how one’s leader was appointed/elected that grants him legitimacy. Rather it is whether the leader delivers the goods or not. This is something most Westerners just don’t understand.

    Westerners think of elected leaders in terms of an evolution of the idea of the “Divine Right of Kings”. So the modern day Western elected leader, was not appointed by God, but by the Ballot Box. To the Chinese, this is largely irrelevant. They have an equivalent concept of “Mandate of Heaven” where a virtuous emperor was favored by Heaven and so derived his legitimacy. And what made an emperor “virtuous”? Being able to deliver the goods to his people (having their best interests at heart). Confucian sounding no?

    Pepe is one of the few Western writers who really understand China. It is sad so many readers just deride his views.

    • Agree: Mevashir
    • Replies: @Mevashir
    , @Joe Paluka
  159. @Astuteobservor II

    IIRC the One-Child Policy resulted in a 85M male overhang, so it´s
    very much a Sellers´(and in-laws´) Market.
    – In the heady pioneer days of the US comparable lack of women resulted
    in what H.J. Stammel called “the Mom as National Trauma”,
    bans on alcohol, tobacco, chewing, spitting, pissing, prostitution and what have you.
    It is also the deep Freudian reason for the American fascination with going to
    distant lands run by men, and bombing their weddings.
    – In Australia it resulted in the somewhat more benign [ahem] buddy system.

    – Historically large numbers of discontented men have always meant war.
    We´ll see how the Chinese, what with being somewhat more highly evolved,
    deal with it.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  160. @Sick of Orcs

    I never said I wanted to be Chinese! My daughter is Chinese, and additional future children will be, and that’s what matters.

    China is not run by Jews, so it has no perverse incentives to black bag its most enthusiastic supporters like like ZOG does.

    • Replies: @Sick of Orcs
  161. @Poco

    My Magyar is perfect. Are you fluent in the languages of all your European forebears, Mutt?

  162. anon[258] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mulga Mumblebrain

    This is a country so hateful of Muslim that it was saddened, angry,and upset for not being thanked by Netanyahu government after the latest Gaza war over India’s support to Israeli aggression . Netanyahu thanked 15 countries for the support but did not include India despite the popular and government support to Israeli aggressions.

    It even sent formal request to be mentioned.

  163. Anonymous[327] • Disclaimer says:
    @A little boy in the crowd

    Somehow, I have a hard time believing that China is building infrastructure in the developing world without expecting anything in return. The Chinese are rapacious capitalists just like the Jews. They are not building all this out of the goodness of their hearts. First, the infrastructure will mostly be built by Chinese companies, with Chinese workers, while paid for by loans issued to local governments. Next, cheap Chinese goods will flood into these countries, decimating their mom and pop industries. Third, Chinese “tourists”, “students” and “businessmen” will flood into these countries and many will forget to leave and turn into immigrants, legal or illegal. This was how China took over Africa and now it plans to extend this same “generous” plan to the rest of the developing world. The last part in fact, the exporting of its people, was how China took over the rich world, all without firing a single shot, just like India.

    ZOG will not go down without a fight. Jews have waited 2,000 years to finally rule the world, they’re not going to let anyone take over. To everyone else, world domination is ridiculous, most of us are just happy to have a little money to live on; but to the Jews, it is an existential crisis. These paranoid delusional people have convinced themselves through tall tales like the Holocaust that if Jews don’t control the world and everyone in it, they will perish. They already control the world economically through Wall Street and the Fed, and in the last 50 years they have also assumed full control of the world’s lone superpower socially, politically and militarily.

    Xi Jin Ping is a megalomaniac who poked the bear before China is ready for a fight. He has forgotten the most important advice from Deng Xiao Peng, which is to “hide your edge and nurture your strength, never take the lead”. BRI has awaken the dark lord, now Sauron’s eye is firmly fixed on Beijing. No one can match the Jews when it comes to greed, treachery and capacity for evil, all justified by the Holocaust and other historical grievances, however contrived. BRI will only help extend ZOG’s soft power around the world through the internet thanks to China installing the 5G network all over the world to bring everyone online. Xi is handing over the world to the ZOG’s slaughter on a silver platter.

    • LOL: antibeast
    • Replies: @Mevashir
  164. @A little boy in the crowd

    Good points, Little – but still a wee bit blue-eyed.

    The most destructive aspect of US “foreign aid” is forcing ag exports on countries that could feed themselves, to prop up the \$\$\$;
    it works only as long as you find some asshole willing to sell his country´s farmers and resources down the river for peanuts read: a Swiss account padded in francs i.e.
    precious little has changed since the days of slabbery ™ .

    – Unlike the US China has to earn the money they invest, so they have to be pickier.
    Railroads and harbors are always good, but the “large-scale infrastructure” number
    is not so much different from what Europeans and Soviets did during the Cold War,
    the results at least for SSA being so-so at best.
    Still it´s better than the USraeli offer any day (things like starting a war in Sierra Leone
    just to keep the diamond prices up).

  165. Mevashir says:
    @Anonymous

    Somehow, I have a hard time believing that China is building infrastructure in the developing world without expecting anything in return. The Chinese are rapacious capitalists just like the Jews. They are not building all this out of the goodness of their hearts. First, the infrastructure will mostly be built by Chinese companies, with Chinese workers, while paid for by loans issued to local governments. Next, cheap Chinese goods will flood into these countries, decimating their mom and pop industries. Third, Chinese “tourists”, “students” and “businessmen” will flood into these countries and many will forget to leave and turn into immigrants, legal or illegal. This was how China took over Africa and now it plans to extend this same “generous” plan to the rest of the developing world. The last part in fact, the exporting of its people, was how China took over the rich world, all without firing a single shot, just like India.

    Why should the Chinese be more altruistic than anyone else?

    And consider the idea that the Chinese are working for ZOG!

    The world’s smallest nation in partnership with the world’s largest. It’s perfect!

  166. Mevashir says:
    @littlereddot

    For this reason the CPC/CCP is very tolerant of Confucianism. Have you checked out the numerous Confucius Institutes established worldwide by the Chinese government?

    Pepe was absolutely right when he mentioned that the CCP is simply the latest of the Chinese dynasties. The way the Chinese view it, just like in the old times of the emperors, it is not how one’s leader was appointed/elected that grants him legitimacy. Rather it is whether the leader delivers the goods or not. This is something most Westerners just don’t understand.

    Excellent comment!

    The problem in the West is that elections are fake, the people have no real choice, and everything is just a feeding frenzy for the lamestream mess media.

    We’d be better off with a King. The American Revolution was an enormous mistake aided and abetted by an angry Catholic Church seeking revenge on Henry VIII for removing England from the RCC:

    https://www.amazon.com/Rulers-Evil-Useful-Knowledge-Governing/dp/0066210836
    https://archive.org/details/F.TupperSaussyRulersOfEvilUsefulKnowledgeAboutGoverningBodies
    https://pacinlaw.us/pdf/sup/Rulers_of_Evil.php
    https://www.granddesignexposed.com/pdf/ROEpdf.pdf

    • Replies: @frankie p
    , @Mevashir
  167. @Carlo

    And the Europeans were “lucky” that the Ming Emperor foolishly stopped all naval advancement – which at the time was a century ahead of Europe. A strong Chinese navy and merchant fleet would have meant no E/SE Asian colonies and the riches that came along with them.
    “Time and chance happens to all men”…. It happens to nations too indeed.

  168. @Patricus

    What became the United States were all European colonies…
    You are correct the shift started before WWII. But that said – there is absolutely a difference to be half a world away – when not 1 but 2 world wars decimated 3 major continents.

    But even before that the shift did start… it started when the US started stealing European technology and industrial processes. That’s when the US economy took off.

  169. @Rahan

    “Summary: China is doing much better than anyone expected and this is quite an achievement.”

    But that’s only because people don’t know and understand history nor culture. As noted in this piece – Escobar points out that Martin Jacques noted that 5 times in recorded history China was the pre-eminent or co pre-eminent power. Westerners only know the Roman Empire – but didn’t know how advanced or powerful the Han Dynasty was during the days of Augustus.
    That said – even in modern times – as Lee Kwan Yew from Singapore pointed out – once China opened up in the late 1970’s it was easy to predict. He noted all you have to do is look at Singapore and Taiwan and Hong Kong. The same exact people ethnically – but 50 x more of them. So he wasn’t the least bit surprised before he died.

    • Thanks: Rahan
    • Replies: @Old Brown Fool
    , @antibeast
  170. @loren

    In India, the White vs Black is reversed: the Black States are better developed!

    Dravidian is not a race of people, it is a family of languages; the speakers have become a mixed lot over the last 2500 years; but yes, most of them, especially at the lower economic and social strata are black; some of them have been mistaken in Europe and America for Blacks. But culturally, the “Black” sections of Indian society are practically indistinguishable from the “White” sections. Only thing is there is an inbuilt preference for “White” skin; a hue that would be classified as Black in America can very well be in great demand as “White” in South India.

  171. @BlackFlag

    Without caste system, India would have been better mixed and more homogeneous; It need not have fragmented into such numerous linguistic and social strata. Chinese are not as homogeneous as we think. In any case, India would have had the benefit of using all its population for all purposes, instead of confining its ruling class to a very narrow band.

    The “interesting” culture is very horrible to live in, if you are on the wrong side of the dividing line. Stories can be easily found how someone from a “lower” caste can be harassed throughout his career.

    Just in the past few days:

    https://english.mathrubhumi.com/news/kerala/chennai-iit-scholar-death-police-find-11-page-suicide-note-1.5797602

    https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/tamil-nadu/iit-professor-resigns-alleges-caste-discrimination/article35089086.ece

    BTW, I have experienced these firsthand.

    Caste is still a burning topic in India. People can be killed for marrying outside the caste. How interesting is that?

    • Thanks: BlackFlag
  172. @showmethereal

    And even those Westerners who could appreciate the achievements of the Roman Empire – and those are great and many – often forget that a monarchical empire in Persia was matching it militarily for a very long time. How big an empire ought to be, to stand against the Romans for a long time?

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  173. @Realist

    Meant to reply to: moi ……he/she said that. Carry on..

    • Thanks: Realist
  174. @antibeast

    “Unlike the USA, Latin American countries failed to acquire the technology and attract the talent from Europe which relegated all the countries South of the USA to a perpetual state of industrial and technological underdevelopment persisting to this day.”

    I read a book called “False Economy” which touched on some of those same things. It singled out Argentina – which in the 1800’s had lots of hope – to compare to the United States. Your comment makes me want to go back and read again.

  175. @Supply and Demand

    Unzfolk know about Jewish influence, but we’re not running. Even an ailing USA remains immensely powerful.

    I have nothing against you personally, but your wishing for the USA’s downfall on this site, while permitted, is unwelcome.

    • Replies: @Miro23
  176. antibeast says:
    @showmethereal

    Westerners only know the Roman Empire – but didn’t know how advanced or powerful the Han Dynasty was during the days of Augustus.

    Westerners don’t know just how backward the West was compared to the East AFTER the Fall of Rome. That period — sometimes called the ‘Dark Age’ or ‘Medieval Period’ — of Western history coincided with the rise of powerful Eastern Empires such as the various Islamic, Persian, Byzantine, Mongol, Turkic, Hindu, Buddhist and Chinese Empires, collectively forming the East which ruled the Eurasian continent, excluding the Mesoamerican Empires of the Aztecs, Incas and Mayans. Instead of powerful Empires, the West was ruled by venal fiefdoms constantly fighting internecine wars against each other over turf, taxes and trade. The modern West today has not changed that much from the medieval West with its venal feudalists replaced by rapacious capitalists. The only difference today is that the modern West had invented its various politico-economic systems which effectively deploy its omni-present industrial technologies to exploit the natural and human resources of the non-West, during the last 500-year period of its rise via the conquest, subjugation and exploitation of the non-West.

    That period is now over as the East has risen to its place in the world after a hiatus of 500 years. The ruling oligarchy of the West will not give up their wealth, power and privilege but will fight tooth and nail to prevent such an eventuality. That explains the hostility of the West led by the USA to the rise of the East led by China, Russia and Iran today.

  177. @Psychotic Break

    You ask a good question… And the answer is that is the reason the overwhelming majority of people support the ruling CPC. Only about 7% of the population are registered communist party members. That leaves 93% who are NOT communists. So why are the people happy with the government? They have brought peace – and lately have brought prosperity. Chinese loathe and fear chaos. People couldn’t care less about Karl Marx… They care that China is strong and prosperous. Westerners who think the CPC doesn’t need to please the Chinese public have zero clue. The government fears chaos too – and when citizens protest they often (but not always) get their way. You don’t want a new power plant in your area? Believe it or not – people have protested that and gotten plans cancelled. Your mosque is going to be destroyed because people built it without a permit? People protest and get it saved. Many westerners have zero clue. The one thing the government doesn’t tolerate is calling for the fall of the government.
    As to “free speech” – again – the majority don’t care about that. What many westerners call free speech is just a license to be rude or disrespectful or to sow dissent. That is contrary to Chinese culture anyway…

    • Agree: Malla
  178. Miro23 says:
    @Sick of Orcs

    I have nothing against you personally, but your wishing for the USA’s downfall on this site, while permitted, is unwelcome.

    Agreed that the US is in deep trouble, but we wish it well. It’ll need a lot of local organization and hard work but the ancestors of US Anglos did it before and they can do it again.

    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
  179. @Cyrano

    It’s not popular to say anymore – but the fact is much of Japanese culture is built on Chinese culture – especially the Tang Dyansty. So Japan’s natural position – like Korea – was to be an understudy to China.
    The alphabet – tea – soy – Zen Buddhism – architecture – many of the martial arts (including the art of the “ninja”) and on and on – even to the very naming of different imperial epochs of time. Those and more are things Japan borrowed from China. It’s a fact of history even though it’s not popular to say now because of “communism”. That only changed after the Opium Wars where once a weak China was invaded by whites – the little brother began to hold the older brother in contempt. Better yet – China was more like the uncle – and Japan and Korea were the squabbling brothers and Japan south to keep little brother Korea down… But Uncle China was against that.
    Long story short – there is nothing “natural” about a Japanese – Russian partnership at all. They share nothing in common except the Russian Far East is there. I mean obviously China and Russia share much longer borders and aside from the waters of East Asia – they both share huge borders with Mongolia and the Central Asian “stans”. So whether they liked each other or not – they always had to deal with each other since they are both continental land masses. Both sides just realized in the past 30 years it is much better to have friendly neighbors.

    • Replies: @Cyrano
    , @Malla
    , @Smith
  180. @Che Guava

    Much of South Korea’s naval building up is not about North Korea. A lot of it is because they are wary of Japan…. Much to US chagrin…

    • Replies: @Che Guava
  181. in the U.S., government changes but not policy. In China, government doesn’t change; policy does.

    Not true. In the U.S. the governing tribe has not changed in a long time. Indeed, their ability to control citizenry groupthink is as good as it is anywhere else. Constant propaganda masquerading as entertainment enables groupthink on a massive scale.

  182. @Old Brown Fool

    Good point. Not much is spoken about the Parthians of the time. The irony is more is written about them in Han Dynasty China – who had “diplomatic relations” through what is now known as Xinjiang – than the Romans – who were neighbors. Very peculiar. But again – I think much of that now is to downplay “modern Iran” to make them seem unsophisticated and as if they descend from nomads or something…

  183. Cyrano says:
    @showmethereal

    Neither China nor Japan are “natural” allies of Russia. That’s not the argument I was trying to make. I was simply trying to point out that it makes more sense from geo-strategic perspective for Russia to have Japan as an ally, than China.

    Of course, Japan is not free to make such decisions and the point is moot. Why I think that Japan is a better choice for Russia? It’s simple. Both Japan and China have territorial aspirations toward Russia, but the Japanese ones are more modest – the Kuril islands, Sakhalin maybe and if Japan was free to make its own decisions – maybe they can be talked out of such silly aspirations and be encouraged to see the big picture – how much they can benefit from having Russia as an ally rather than being subjugated – like they are now.

    China’s territorial aspirations towards Russia, on the other hand, are really, truly megalomanic – they want Siberia. According to some legends, there are some who believe that Russia “stole” Siberia from the Chinese – based on the fact that there are some native people in Siberia who appear Asian – thus automatically they are Chinese and Siberia is theirs. That’s a retarded logic.

    By the same logic – the Americas also belong to China, because the first settlers – the native Indians were of Asian descent and appearance – thus they must have somehow been of Chinese origin too. That’s the argument that I was trying to make – that Russo-Japanese alliance will be based more on equal terms – populations size wise and also based on the fact that the ambitions of one of the allies will be easier to control than the ambitions of one of the allies in the Russo-Chinese alliance.

  184. @Miro23

    I wish the US State and ruling elites dissolution, and justice, but the US people, who are oppressed by the US Empire, I wish liberation.

  185. @showmethereal

    There are hundreds of protests every day in China, and, as you say, the Government tries to peacefully resolve them. Speech is free unless you are calling for the overthrow of the country, ie working for China’s ideological, racial and civilizational enemies.

    • Replies: @Sick of Orcs
  186. Seraphim says:
    @Cyrano

    The legend that Chinese want Siberia is just that, a legend. Why did they built the Great Wall? They rather want America and likely will have it eventually! It’s a matter of time, but the Chinese are very patient.

  187. aspnaz says:
    @Mulga Mumblebrain

    I live in China and I understand how it works. You seem to have forgotten the cultural revolution, the 10 year plans and everything else that could possibly shatter your delusion. Millions of Chinese died to secure the CCP’s control over China, for bad or for good, but it happened. The destruction of books also happened. The result was a split China with the CCP still complaining that they actually own Taiwan, when in fact they failed to conquer Taiwan.

    As for racist, you should go to China and you will discover that it is a racially pure society with very few foreigners compared to all other countries bar maybe North Korea. Chinese are openly racist, depending on what’s in the news they can be openly hostile to white people – I have had strangers shout “White Trash” at me in the street. I have no problem with that, but you better steel yourself if you are ever going to go there because you have a child’s impression of China.

    Remember that Mao started the CCP and that Xi’s Dad ran Mao’s intelligence services. The leopard has not changed its spots, it has gotten less desperate.

  188. @Mulga Mumblebrain

    You make a lot of predictions. You find self-worth in this pointless endeavor. Which means you are deluded about a few things. It also means you are wrong far more times than you are right about anything. Far more. I’d put the ratio at like 20-to-1. So by all means keep it up. You are a good predictor of what the future will not be.

  189. denk says:

    Confucius sez

    Its rude not to return a favor…..

    I said so long ago,
    Dont get mad, get even.

    Two can play at this game.

    China backs Argentina claim over the Malvina.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1456466/Falkland-Islands-news-China-Argentina-Chinese-sovereignty-United-Nations-UN

  190. @nokangaroos

    The Chinese are encouraging their young to seek brides outside the country 😛 That is how they are dealing with it for the more capable and affluent ones anyway.

    Think of this like the continuation of the extreme Chinese competition that ron mentioned in his old article. If you are not capable, you wouldn’t even be able to breed. While the more capable ones have more than they can handle. That is the Chinese way.

    I like it. It is 1000% opposite of the retarded “equity”.

    • Agree: nokangaroos
  191. @aspnaz

    But you do sound and read like white trash. I bet you show your trashiness through your daily activities.

    When in a foreign country, do behave. I don’t want to be judged by your behavior.

  192. d dan says:
    @Cyrano

    “Both Japan and China have territorial aspirations toward Russia”

    Japan has territorial claims against Russia, that is a documented FACT. China “aspiration” exists in the minds of many Westerners still hoping for a major conflict between Russia and China.

    “but the Japanese ones are more modest …”

    A country that once wanted to conquer the WHOLE China (area almost 100 time Japan) is never modest. A country that attacked from Pearl Harbor to East India was far from modest. A country where many still consider those aggressions are justified will never be modest.

    “based on the fact that there are some native people in Siberia who appear Asian – thus automatically they are Chinese and Siberia is theirs. That’s a retarded logic.”

    The retarded logic is from you. If that is their logic, they better claim the whole South East Asia, where Chinese have settled there thousand years before the arrival of Europeans, dominated (and still dominate) the economy, and the settlers still strongly identify themselves culturally with China. They also have better weather and more militarily and political strategic locations (e.g. Malacca Strait) But you don’t see them claiming any countries as their colony like the Europeans, do you?

    “Russo-Japanese alliance will be based more on equal terms – populations size wise and also …”

    If that is the case, shouldn’t India-China the best alliance in the whole world? Shouldn’t Russia-US (closer populations) better alliance than Russia-China?

    “… ambitions of one of the allies”

    Ambitions? Typical projection from Westerners of their own sick thinking on China.

    • Agree: littlereddot
    • Replies: @Smith
  193. antibeast says:
    @Cyrano

    China’s territorial aspirations towards Russia, on the other hand, are really, truly megalomanic – they want Siberia. According to some legends, there are some who believe that Russia “stole” Siberia from the Chinese – based on the fact that there are some native people in Siberia who appear Asian – thus automatically they are Chinese and Siberia is theirs. That’s a retarded logic.

    What a bunch of bullcrap! If there is anyone who wants Siberia, it’s Japan not China. Here’s a map detailing the plans drawn up by the Imperial Japanese Army to conquer Siberia from Manchuria as part of its ‘Northern Expansion Doctrine’ called Hokushin-ron:

    The Imperial Japanese Army abandoned that plan after its defeat in the Battles of Khalkhin Gol in 1939 which forced the Japs to pursue its ‘Southern Expansion Doctrine’ called Nanshin-ron, which entailed the attack on Pearl Harbor and the invasion of Southeast Asia in 1941.

    You must be either a paid troll sowing disinformation here or a nincompoop lacking any knowledge of the history and geopolitics of East Asia.

  194. antibeast says:
    @aspnaz

    Chinese are openly racist, depending on what’s in the news they can be openly hostile to white people – I have had strangers shout “White Trash” at me in the street.

    You’re just making things up. No Chinese ever use the term ‘White Trash’ on Westerners in China. Heck, that term ‘White Trash’ was invented by the Yanks not by the Chinese.

    • Replies: @aspnaz
  195. Malla says:
    @showmethereal

    but the fact is much of Japanese culture is built on Chinese culture – especially the Tang Dyansty. So Japan’s natural position – like Korea – was to be an understudy to China.

    This is not completely true. Yes, sure, Japan was influenced by China but Japan had charted a unique historical-cultural course and that is why in the book “Clash of Civilizations”, Japan was shown as an independent civilization. indeed what is unique about Japan is that in many ways its historical development was in some ways paralleling the West before it came across the West. But of course Japan is still a North East Asian nation and has North East Asian cultural traits like Kore and China. Just like Western civilization was we knew it for a 1500 years was at its core a Germanic civilization, it may have borrowed from Classical Greeco-Roman civilization but in many ways is a different civilization. Russia too has a different civilization even though Slavic Russians are White Europeans. Ditto for South East Asia and India.
    It was Korea who was happy to be vassal state of China, a Little China for that matter. Indeed during the late Joeson Dynasty, Korea was more Confucius than even China. Vietnam too was part of the system but I think Vietnam was the rebellious guy in the lot, what France is in NATO.

    the little brother began to hold the older brother in contempt.

    Little brother? You are confusing Korea with Japan. Korea was little brother all right. This is again a Chinese mentality view of things. Japan’s anti-China tendency emerged after Chinese Confucius feudal mentality opposed modernization, which was important. Japan had its own modernization sucess story, an Asian success story it offered to Korea and China but because of anti-Japanese tribalism, Middle Kingdom mentality (which was becoming obsolete in a rapidly changing world) and arrogance about learning from Japanese or White barbarians, they both rejected it. This is perfectly well mentioned in Fukuzawa San’s writings.
    It is this same thinking which led to the “Indians being sepoys of the British/ West” mentality of the Chinese, without any deep understanding of the British Raj. The British Raj was a light liberal mini- Empire and a far superior and humane upgrade over what Indians (including Pakistanis and Bangladeshis) had earlier. At most 200000 British people lived in India including soldiers, not enough to “enslave” the population. The common Indians were happy in the British Empire because the British brought justice, equal rights, freedom of speech etc…as well as peace while earlier there was constant wars. Instead of understanding the British India phenomenon in deep, instead of doing a deep study, the Chinese started looking down upon Indians as lowly sepoys because of their own Middle Kingdom mentality as well as their own experiences with the West. And now you are projecting the Japanese having the same mentality w.r.t China, that is false. And mixed with this “India being sepoys” mentality you had the toxic mix of childish Marxist mentality (all non-Communist countries are part of the Imperialist Capitalist World) die to which the early CCP regime stupidly treated, India’s Government made up of freedom fighters as sepoys!! It was utter humiliation on vengeful Indian. Wrong timing too as Indians were just free from British rule and to rile up the Indian masses against the British Raj, the Indian Brahmanical leaders spread the “India Vs the World” mentality that the whole world wants to loot Great India idea. The idiotic “India is sepoy” mentality toxic mix with childish Marxist “Imperialists Vs Communists” mentality of the early CCP clashed in the 1950s with the equally childish and Brahmanical, egoistical “The World is out to loot Bharat Varsha (India)”, “all wealth in the world ,went from Bharata, Bharata (India) is the source-spring of the World’s wealth and knowledge, they Imperialists will come again to loot great Bharata and steal knowledge” .
    So this Chinese egoistical “India is sepoy” mentality + childish “Communists revolutionaries Vs Imperialists” Marxist mentality of the CCP CLASHED BANG into the Indian egoistical idiotic “World will loot India again”, resultant, even though China became very friendly towards India later on, genuinely wanted a partnership, Indians like a homing missile look towards China as British Raj 2.0, as new Imperialists against Mother India. Which is also an idiotic theory based on misunderstanding of China, Indian egoism and arrogance of history & civilization. But it sticks and likely to stick.

    • Disagree: d dan
    • Replies: @antibeast
    , @showmethereal
  196. Malla says:
    @showmethereal

    Very true. If one looks at Chinese history, China has done well only when there is strong Central control and over all stability. Stability is more important for China than democracy and freedom. Add to that, the Chinese has seen what happened to the mighty USSR after it collapsed and fell. Because the Western elites are short term thinking scumbags, instead of setting an example by integrating Russia, the Jewish like Western elites went in for the loot. Slimeball Clinton and his gang of Jewish looters with inside help form drunk fatso Yeltsin and Russian Jewish oligarchs, went in for the loot, looted out the collected wealth of the USSR. So why would the Chinese trust the Western elites after seeing what happened to Russia?
    Also the bombing of the Chinese embassy in Belgrade by the U.S air force sealed the deal for any major Chinese desire for American style democracy when they saw how the USA behaved like a bully and itself broke international law by attacking an embassy. Embassies are not to be attacked.

    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
    , @Miro23
  197. Smith says:

    All the people who think the chinese are succeeding because they are “chinese” are fools, and don’t get why the chinese are succeeding at all.

    This is just like worshiping the germans because of the German Empire or the japanese because of their Empire and the 80s miracle.

    Success can be achieved by anybody, it has nothing to do with culture or race or ethnicity. It has more to do with again, organization and divided-labor-wealth.

    If the chinese has stuck with their chinese culture and way of thinking, they would still be the Ming or Qing dynasty now.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  198. Smith says:
    @showmethereal

    There is no brothers in geopolitics, only interests.

    China got nothing to worry about as Japan is under US control now.

    But when the US is outta the way, that’s when China should worry, especially when Japan can have their own politics back. Same for Korea, especially if the North prevails against the South, the South corporations are easily controlled by greed more than the Kim family.

    Vietnam is just chilling. Nobody dares to mess with us.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  199. frankie p says:
    @Mevashir

    The tolerance of the CCP towards Confucianism demonstrates the ability of the party to change and adapt to new realities and needs. Anyone mentioning or emphasizing this tolerance should point out that it is a recent phenomenon; Mao in the 1950s, 60s and 70s was hell bent on erasing all of the traditional Chinese ideologies and systems of thought. This included Confucianism.

    • Thanks: Mevashir
  200. Yee says:

    Cyrano,

    “I was simply trying to point out that it makes more sense from geo-strategic perspective for Russia to have Japan as an ally, than China.”

    It’d make as much sense as Russia ally with Britain against continental Europe…

    Both UK and Japan are island state off the continent that is 100x the landmass and 10x the population.

    • Replies: @Smith
  201. @aspnaz

    Your story is very surprising and borders on the unbelievable. If you really do live in China, either
    1. You have not been there very long and don’t understand the culture or the people.
    or
    2. You have not bothered to learn Chinese and live in an exclusive expat environment.
    or
    3. You have misspelled “live” and instead meant to type “livedD”. Like maybe for week in a hotel in Hongkong or Taiwan, 30 years ago.

  202. antibeast says:
    @Malla

    This is not completely true. Yes, sure, Japan was influenced by China but Japan had charted a unique historical-cultural course and that is why in the book “Clash of Civilizations”, Japan was shown as an independent civilization. indeed what is unique about Japan is that in many ways its historical development was in some ways paralleling the West before it came across the West. But of course Japan is still a North East Asian nation and has North East Asian cultural traits like Korea and China.

    Huntington’s “Clash of Civilizations” represents an Anglo-Saxon historical worldview, just like Toynbee’s book “A Study of History”. It’s more accurate to say that Japan belongs to East Asian Civilization, sharing a common Confucianist/Buddhist culture with the Chinese, Koreans and Vietnamese. That East Asian Civilization has expanded to Southeast Asian countries like Singapore and Malaysia with substantial ethnic Chinese populations as well as to Buddhist countries like Thailand and Myanmar. Similarly, there is an Islamic Civilization which originated in the Arabian Peninsula, and then expanded to encompass North Africa, West Asia, South Asia, Central Asia, Southeastern Europe and Southeast Asia. The key characteristic that define a Civilization is its all-encompassing religion which forms its highest cultural entity uniting disparate cultures, societies and polities together, as exemplified by Confucianism/Buddhism in East Asia as well as Islam in the Muslim World.

    Just like Western civilization was we knew it for a 1500 years was at its core a Germanic civilization, it may have borrowed from Classical Greco-Roman civilization but in many ways is a different civilization.

    The difference between the Classical West and the Medieval West was the power of Roman Catholicism which did influence the Germanic Holy Roman Empire, Anglo-Saxon England, Papal States, Hanseatic League, Italian City-States, etc. The rise of German, Anglo-Saxon and Nordic Protestantism broke the power of Roman Catholicism and ushered in the European Renaissance starting in the Italian City-States which then spread to Northern Europe, thereby creating what is now known as the ‘Modern West’ while the Iberian Powers Spain and Portugal remained mired in the Medieval West.

    Russia too has a different civilization even though Slavic Russians are White Europeans.

    Russia has a complicated history compared to Eastern Europe due to the Mongol Conquests in the 13th century. During the rule of the Mongols, Muscovy became the dominant Principality which then conquered the rest of Russia following the collapse of the Tatar-Mongol Yolk in the late 15th century. Since then, Russia has had a conflicting identity, torn between Europe and Asia, due to its history and geography, from Peter the Great’s ‘Westernization’ to Stalin’s ‘Eurasianism’.

    It was Korea who was happy to be vassal state of China, a Little China for that matter. Indeed during the late Joeson Dynasty, Korea was more Confucius than even China. Vietnam too was part of the system but I think Vietnam was the rebellious guy in the lot, what France is in NATO.

    Tokugawa Japan also adopted neo-Confucianism from China, just like Joeson Korea. But you’re right though that Japan never became a tributary State to China unlike Korea which sought protection from China against Japan. Vietnam too adopted neo-Confucianism even after its independence from China.

    Little brother? You are confusing Korea with Japan. Korea was little brother all right. This is again a Chinese mentality view of things. Japan’s anti-China tendency emerged after Chinese Confucius feudal mentality opposed modernization, which was important. Japan had its own modernization success story, an Asian success story it offered to Korea and China but because of anti-Japanese tribalism, Middle Kingdom mentality (which was becoming obsolete in a rapidly changing world) and arrogance about learning from Japanese or White barbarians, they both rejected it. This is perfectly well mentioned in Fukuzawa San’s writings.

    This was true only for the Manchu Obscurantists not the Chinese Nationalists like Sun Yat-sen who was educated in HK and the USA as well as Chiang Kai-shek who was educated in Japan. Sun was a Pan-Asianist who sought out Japan as China’s ally against the West while Chiang was a Japanophile who admired Japanese discipline which he wanted to impose on the Chinese people. The myth that Confucianism militated against Chinese industrialism is patently false as China achieved a proto-Industrial economy as early as the Song Dynasty due to the rise of neo-Confucian metaphysics such as Zhu Xi’s ‘spiritual rationalism’.

    Japan has a LONG history of rejecting Western ‘barbarians’, including persecuting Christian missionaries, which did not exist in China. Matteo Ricci’s time in China is testament to his acceptance by the Chinese Emperor. The problem was the Manchu Obscurantists who feared foreign trade would affect their ability to rule China which made them hostile to Western ‘barbarians’ who came to trade with the Chinese. Emperor Qianlong’s dismissal of Lord Macartney’s offer to trade sealed China’s fate to a backward status which lasted until the Xinhai Revolution toppled the Qing Dynasty in 1911. If Qianlong had accepted Macartney’s offer to trade British goods such as steam engines, cotton textiles, railroads, steel mills, etc. during his trips to China from 1792-1794, then the Industrial Revolution would have started in China as early as 1795 not a hundred years later in 1895, after the Treaty of Shimonoseki forced the Qing Dynasty to allow foreign investment in industrial enterprises in China. As it were, the Manchu Obscurantists wasted the national wealth of China on opulent palaces such as the Yuanmingyuan all the while refusing to build modern infrastructure such as railroads which was proposed by the British but rejected by the Manchus TWICE after the Opium Wars.

    • Thanks: Mevashir, showmethereal
    • Replies: @Mevashir
    , @Malla
    , @Malla
  203. @showmethereal

    Thank you for your summary of my post.

    I would rather that we Westerners however retained our freedom of speech whether it be misinterpreted as rudeness or disrespect or whatever.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  204. @Malla

    NO country has ‘democracy’ or ‘freedom’ in any fully meaningful sense, but China has more of both than the USA.

    • Replies: @Malla
  205. @aspnaz

    What a pack of obvious lies! Why do stupid trolls think that they can get away with moronic mendacity? Ten year plans??!! It is to snigger. Back under your rock, troll.

    • Replies: @aspnaz
  206. @Mulga Mumblebrain

    Speech is free unless you are calling for the overthrow of the country, ie working for China’s ideological, racial and civilizational enemies.

    red chinee internet is on lockdown, always has been, worse than even current zuckerbookooglemazon.

    • Replies: @Supply and Demand
  207. moi says:
    @Old Brown Fool

    Indeed, I’ve lived in four countries for periods of time. If you look in the mirror you’ll see we are the most violent, arrogant and greedy people–as attested by us having bases just about everywhere. If this is our response to 9/11, imagine what it would be be had someone done to us what the Versailles treaty did to Germany.

  208. @antibeast

    I don’t think we are as far apart in our mental constructs as you assume. I certainly never claimed these attitudes are the result of racial/ethnic qualities, but I understand that you see me referring to “Chinese” and your pride in your national identity kicks in and you are offended. I believe these attitudes are the result of an absurd set of cultural/political opinions that can be summed up in a sign that used to be common in American drinking establishments “If You Are So Smart Why Ain’t You Rich?”. The notion, more accurately a mental disorder, that a person’s value is literally proportional to their “net worth” in dollars, and these attitudes are cross cultural and distributed worldwide. Please don’t be offended, but contemporary Chinese seem to have a particularly bad case of this disorder presently. Over the past 70 years we in The West have substantially grown out of this mindset, yet a large plurality still cling to this mental disorder, resulting in abominations like Thatcherite NeoConservatism.

  209. Smith says:
    @Yee

    It’d make as much sense as Russia ally with Britain against continental Europe…

    To my knowledge, that happened 3 times already.
    Once in Napoleon time.
    Once in WW1
    Once in WW2.

  210. Smith says:
    @d dan

    I mean, China is claiming the South East Asia sea, do they not?

    You bring up a good point, and indeed, they do claim of the sea, the majority of it.

  211. Yee says:

    Smith,

    “To my knowledge, that happened 3 times already.”

    And that did a world of good for Tsarist Russia/USSR and the Europeans… So good that Russia would want to repeat it.

    • Replies: @Smith
  212. Yee says:

    Smith,

    “I mean, China is claiming the South East Asia sea, do they not?”

    South China Sea was claimed right after WW2 by the former Chinese gevernment. Any country who wants it should have claimed it before the ROC government did.

  213. Smith says:
    @Yee

    I mean, yeah, it’s kind of crisis, but it happened 3 times already so it’s not a strange thing anymore.

    And the CCP doesn’t have to take up the claim of the imperial ROC government, which they were fighting against, but since they do, I guess they share the blame.

    The rest of the SEA’s governments don’t have to upheld any pledge or order by imperialists set to divide up their territories.

  214. Malla says:
    @Mulga Mumblebrain

    What rubbish! I cannot say about the USA or UK, but we Indians in India have far more freedom than Chinese in the PRC can dream of and we want to keep it that way. Thanks. Maoist system is good for Chinese, our system is good for us, though many Indians would argue that the true native system for Indians is Hindutva, which is debatable. But yes most Indians desire Hindutva in their hearts, but I think they are making a mistake.
    Sure Modi is trying to stifle this freedom, but thanks to our Constitution by wise genius Babasaheb Ambedkar, there are limits to how much damage he can do. Compared to his Turkish soulmate Erdogand (gand in Hindi means bum, ass, which he is). Erdogand could do much more crushing of freedom of speech by jailing record numbers of journalists than Modi could even if he wanted. This is primarily because of our Constitution.

    • Replies: @FB
  215. Che Guava says:
    @showmethereal

    I know that, but thanks for posiing it.

    The fear ir groundess, except for Doktou, but Korea already ocçupies that rock, an attack is vanishingly unlikely.

    Of course, extreme nats on both sides claim larger islands, Tushima in the case of Korean ultra-nats, Chengdu in the case of Japanese equivalents, some I know in person.

    Both sides have correct historical info., but posession of both has been the situation for centuries, so both are lost causes.

    Okinawa, or the Ryuukyuu Kingdom is another matter. The top people in the U.S. army knew, or had been informed of the history. They never used the word, Okinawa, and supported independence.

    I don”t think it was entirely cynical.

    The Ryuukuu kingdom originally only had a vassal relation with China, which left them alone as a centre for occasonal trade.

    The southernmost of the feudal domains in Japan, Satuma, invaded the northernmost islands well before the Meiji period, but I have been to an ocean hot spring there, and conversation with these older people was very interesting. Also, with people from there here, same thing.

    They still were using words to imply that main island people are foreign.

    So, the annexation of all of the Ryukyu kingdom was earliest in Meiji and post-expansion. Stupidly accepted by the dominant ‘Western Powers’ at the time, as a small stroke in crushing China at the time.

    Some (recent) years ago, a woman from there ran in the Governor’s election, she very nearly won, looking at the Trump Biden bullshit, I wonder if she really won, but was cheated.

    Increasingly, retirees and Sun lovers from among the rich in the main islands are making a future challenge from such as her impossible.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  216. Anonymous[283] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rahan

    prepare the local Han for the challenges ahead and maybe help them keep the infecion out…

    The infection will never get a foothold in China, for the eternal and simple reason that, in spite of learning from the West, and openly admiring features of Western Civilization, the Chinese have never, not even in the most helpless and backward moments of their history, ever considered their identity to be subject to the pronouncements or mental constructs of outsiders (ex., the Woke West).

    They have a clear and rock-solid concept of themselves, and sundry outside “tribes”, “commentators” and “intellectuals” presuming to define to the Chinese what they are, are met by ridicule and derision, not least by Chinese intellectuals and their elite, all the way to the common man.

    We are always trying to put the Chinese into a box, into categories of our own devising.

    First it was “Orientals are lazy and stupid, worthless ants”. When this was shown to be mistaken, it was modified to “Asians are diligent and some are intelligent, but they are not suited to technological sophistication”. Later, it became “Chinese can only copy, never innovate”. Every time we have put the Chinese in a category, they have broken out of that category.

    The only people we’ve managed to trap in these cultural straitjackets, these stereotypes . . . is ourselves.

    Almost as if we believe that if we define and name something (China, as a case in point) that then becomes actual Reality – and then we are endlessly dismayed, astounded and infuriated that it was all delusion on our part.

    • Replies: @HeebHunter
    , @Malla
  217. Anonymous[283] • Disclaimer says:
    @frankie p

    That list of American officers includes one Albert C. Wedemeyer.

    A graduate of West Point, he also attended the German Kriegsakadamie, very perceptively reporting on the brilliance of German leadership, morale-building, tactical and operational philosophies (he was strictly professional, with no contact with any ideological element in Germany) He recommended these practices be adopted by the U.S. military, and of course, he was ignored on the institutional level.

    Those American who did heed Wedemeyer’s words, or paid for their knowledge with the blood of Americans, agreed that he was undoubtedly prescient.

    Fun fact, Wedemeyer drafted the Victory Plan, outlining American full-spectrum mobilization for World War 2. This was, with some changes, the program that was followed by the country. Albert Wedemeyer was an unsung hero.

    Wedemeyer was assigned to China after Stilwell, and had a quite favorable impression of the culture.

    • Thanks: frankie p
  218. Miro23 says:
    @Malla

    Add to that, the Chinese has seen what happened to the mighty USSR after it collapsed and fell. Because the Western elites are short term thinking scumbags, instead of setting an example by integrating Russia, the Jewish like Western elites went in for the loot. Slimeball Clinton and his gang of Jewish looters with inside help form drunk fatso Yeltsin and Russian Jewish oligarchs, went in for the loot, looted out the collected wealth of the USSR. So why would the Chinese trust the Western elites after seeing what happened to Russia?

    That’s a good example. I’m sure it’s exactly what the western elite want to do to China. Officially referred to as “bringing democracy”, “free markets” and “protecting minorities”. In fact China is more problematic than Russia because it doesn’t have collaborationist local Jewish oligarchs and it’s not a society that’s breaking down – in fact quite the opposite – it’s the US that’s breaking down.

    • Agree: Malla, JohnnyGodYilmaz
  219. Mevashir says:
    @antibeast

    Fascinating comments. Thank you.

    This talk by a Singapore pastor on Chinese history and language suggests that the problem was not Manchu obscurantists but rather that a faction in the Vatican condemned Mateo Ricci’s culturally sensitive outreach to Chinese people and sought to impose exclusively Western dominated values. This led the Chinese emperor of that time to completely expel all Catholic missionaries and to shut down the Christian religion. See from ~1:40:00

  220. @antibeast

    that is because the people that helped get mexico “independence” were cabal members who installed cabal members down in mexico ciudad.

    is it any wonder why it has been a perpetual hellhole? here’s a hint…that was always the deal.

    they aren’t sending their best and brightest because that is the deal.

    the USA only ever wanted the dumbest mejicanos to come to the USA. to clean toilets and pick lettuce for hamburguesas. doing the jobs the fat lazy anglo cabal didn’t want to do.

    rinse, repeat, and multiply. and you have USA-Mexico relations in 2021.

  221. Mevashir says:
    @Mevashir

    We’d be better off with a King. The American Revolution was an enormous mistake aided and abetted by an angry Catholic Church seeking revenge on Henry VIII for removing England from the RCC:


    https://archive.org/details/F.TupperSaussyRulersOfEvilUsefulKnowledgeAboutGoverningBodies
    https://pacinlaw.us/pdf/sup/Rulers_of_Evil.php
    https://www.granddesignexposed

    What I meant to say is that the Roman Catholic Church, according to this book RULERS OF EVIL, sought to create a pro-Catholic English-speaking enclave to replace England that had been lost to the Protestant Reformation courtesy of Henry VIII and his daughter Elizabeth. I’m not sure that the Catholics were seeking revenge on England so much as to compensate the loss of an important Catholic society by replacing it with a new English-speaking Catholic enclave. And in truth the United States has grown to possess the most prosperous and influential Catholic Community in the world.

  222. aspnaz says:
    @antibeast

    And you are assuming the Chinese are not intelligent enough to insult you in your own language? Yet you are an expert on China? Ignorant.

  223. Albert Wedemeyer was an unsung hero

    This mental block of worshipping golem who served the kikes victories on a plate is the reason why the (((west))) will die.

  224. @Anonymous

    I never got the whole “bug people” thing. If one is to look at the 20th century, it was Europeans and mostly our mutt rejects who were the unthinking insects. How would the yids have gained full spectrum dominance otherwise? Only an insect would be so easily goaded into self destruction.

    And you forgot, Asian infanstructures are straight out of sci-fi today, and in Muttmerica there has been news of collapsing buildings every week. And Europe is going that way in 10 years, top.

  225. @antibeast

    Mexico and Brazil could have industrialized their economies in the same manner as the USA after getting their independence from Spain and Portugal, respectively, which for some reason did not happen unlike the USA.

    The reason: Mexico and Brazil are populated by Mexicans and Brazilians.

  226. denk says:

    I smelled a rat when Abe abruptly went out on ‘health’ reason.

    Now I know why.

    NOt even Shinso 731 abe was ready to broach China’s red line so he’s removed.

    Jp is now fully onboard the new eight nations alliance.

    Japan’s deputy defense minister warned at an event aired on Monday of a growing threat posed by Chinese and Russian collaboration and said it was necessary to “wake up” to Beijing’s pressure on Taiwan and protect the island “as a democratic country.

    [2]

    The barbarians are at the gate…. again.

    [1]

    https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/news/article/article.aspx?aid=2971580

    [2]
    https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/japan-minister-says-necessary-wake-up-protect-taiwan-2021-06-28/

  227. @littlereddot

    “Have you checked out the numerous Confucius Institutes established worldwide by the Chinese government?”

    One day I was doing some work for one of those organizations as a subcontractor in a university. Knowing that it was a front for the CCP, I asked some innocuous questions about what the society was all about. The evasive answers and unease spoke volumes about their organizations true purpose.

    • Troll: Mulga Mumblebrain
  228. @Cyrano

    I actually thought you had a serious argument to make… But once you trot out the “China wants Siberia” nonsense – I put this under the joke file. China’s northern provinces can’t even keep people from migrating to the south.. The only lands in the Far East that were Chinese historically were formally settled 30 years ago… That was the beginning of the Russian Chinese rapprochement. I’m sorry but you completely misunderstand the region.

    About the only thing you got right is that Japan can’t do anything since it is a US vassal.
    But I will list why China and Russia decided to make friends.

    1) neither country likes to be told how to govern their own country. So with both being permanent UN Security Council members – they both most often vote against the other 5 who seek to impose western values around the globe

    2) they are the 2/3 strongest militaries in the world from a conventional and nuclear standpoint. it makes sense to be friendly … especially when neither wants the US or its allies near their borders

    3) China has lots of money and Russia has lots of resources. Again – it gives both some independence from “western values” which seek to strangle countries to get their way.

    • Agree: antibeast
  229. @Malla

    Of course Japan had its own unique aspects (especially it’s Bushido spirit)… But there is no debate that for 1000 years it learned from China. From the Tang Dynasty up until the Meiji Period. Once Japanese visitors saw what happened to China after the Opium Wars they made the major and conscious decision to no longer follow China’s lead but instead learn from the west. It was a pragmatic choice on their part.

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @antibeast
  230. @Psychotic Break

    Which is perfectly fine… Just as long as it is not imposed on other societies/cultures

    • Replies: @Psychotic Break
  231. Malla says:
    @Anonymous

    First it was “Orientals are lazy and stupid, worthless ants”.

    What rubbish. Europeans had praised East Asian work ethics for a long time. There was this quote by some British guy centuries ago where he said that in industriousness the Chinese are more akin to Europeans than to tropical peoples but I cannot find it now.

    • Replies: @Rahan
  232. Malla says:
    @showmethereal

    But there is no debate that for 1000 years it learned from China.

    That maybe true, but Japan is an unique distinct civilization in East Asia.
    South East Asia and China learnt a lot from India too but they are unique civilizations too. You can go to South East Asia and they have tales of Hindu Lord Ram, avatar of Lord Vishnu.

  233. Yee says:

    Joe Paluka,

    “I asked some innocuous questions about what the society was all about. The evasive answers and unease spoke volumes about their organizations true purpose.”

    Whatever ideology the evil Commie are try to poison you with, at least they’re doing it in the open, unlike the sneaky Evangelical Protestants…

  234. Malla says:
    @antibeast

    The rise of German, Anglo-Saxon and Nordic Protestantism broke the power of Roman Catholicism

    This process had started much earlier, already after the fall of the Roman Empire, the new civilization which arose in Europe was highly Germanic and many of its aspects were borrowed from Germanic cultures. Post Roman Empire, Western civilization ran on three cylinders Greeco-Roman heritage, Catholic Church (later Protestants) and Germanic Culture. This is way before Martin Luther.
    It was during the Renaissance, that because of the admiration of ancient Greece and Rome at that period, that this Greeco-Roman heritage was more stressed and the Germanic element covered up. But that is false history.
    The truth is Western civilization is quite different from Classical Civilization, has a different soul but in one way it is also the continuation of Classical Civilization, at the same time. But after the fall of Rome, it is a completely distinct civilization too.

    How Does the West Works

    The Islamic conquests of North Africa actually helped this process further as now the locus of Western civilization shifted from the Mediterranean and moved North. All
    explained in the Video.

    Huntington’s “Clash of Civilizations” represents an Anglo-Saxon historical worldview, just like Toynbee’s book “A Study of History”. It’s more accurate to say that Japan belongs to East Asian Civilization, sharing a common Confucianist/Buddhist culture with the Chinese, Koreans and Vietnamese. That East Asian Civilization has expanded to Southeast Asian countries like Singapore and Malaysia with substantial ethnic Chinese populations as well as to Buddhist countries like Thailand and Myanmar.

    Just because it is Anglo historical viewpoint, does not make it always inaccurate. I never claimed Japan is not part of East Asian civilization just that Japan charted a more unique course within East Asian. This is common sense to anybody who goes to Japan. I am not trying to separate Japan from other East Asian countries, that would be stupid. I suspect, Japan being an island played a part in making Japan a bit unique. Just like how the British have a slightly different mentality than continental Europeans. Even Indian leader Ambedkar spoke about the English channel playing a big part in bringing about ideas of liberty in England.
    Japan has a habit of Japanifying everythign and they did that to whatever they absorbed from the West. And ths same hapapned with ehat they had absorbed froM China till the Tang Dynnasty era.

    Four fundamenta things reached Japan from China (one of them was from India but was highly Sinified by then) which did play a big role in early Japanese history and state development. The Chinese writing system, Buddhism, Confucianism, and the Chinese legal system of centralized bureaucracy (ritsuryo). All of them were very beneficial, no doubt. But with time, the ways in which these four elements were all integrated into Japan thereafter there is a history of divergence from the origin, a strong tendency of transformation. These four fundamental principles underwent marked changes during the Heian, Kamakura, Muromachi, and Warring States Periods-in positive terms, they were Japanized; in a more negative light, some of them were used arbitrarily, abandoned undigested or changed substantially into forms unlike those in the source country of China. Chinese elements definitely made massive positive changes in Japanese culture millenia ago but Japan did, however, manage to break away from Chinese civilization sphere politically in the time of Prince Shotoku, culturally in the Heian Petiod to the Kamakura Period, and economically in the 16th-17th centuries, ascending step by step to eventually even surpass China in some areas. The collpse of the Tang dynasty in the 10th century marked the end of any decisive influence by Chinese Civilization on the development of Japanese Civilization, and the subsequent history of China was a bewildering alternation of order and chaos annd the rise and fall of dynastiesd. The only constant through this history was the imperial system.
    On the other hand, many core Chinese cultural/ governmental practices were never imported into Japan, among them the civil service examination system, the eunuch syste, and the ban on marriages within the same kinship group. While in Japan there are any number of instances of marriages between cousins with the imperial family, such arrangements were absolutely forbidden in China. Japanse emperors, being “heavenly sovereigns”, had no names. This is remarkably difference from China. The names by which past Japanese emperors are known are posthumous names (okurina)-for example, Emperor Showa, the name bestowed on the previous emperor after his passing-while the reignng emperor is simply refered to as His Majesty. The Chinese emperors, however, possess their personal names during their lifetimes.
    Chinese society was a strictly patriarchal one, and women would continue to use their premarital surnames even after marriage. Women were pro forma absorbed into the extended family of their husbands, but they must keep their premarital surnames and thus remained outside the fold. As extended families normally had the same surname, marriages between members of the same extended family were not permitted. This systm was not adopted in Japan, though, where the society tended to divide itself into smaller kinship groups.

    During the Tokugawa shogunate, Korea, was respected and the Shogunate consciously adopted a policy of receiving envoys from Korea. As a tributary state of China, Korea used Ming era names in contacts with the Ming court and the Qing era names in dealings with the new rulers, but the Japanese rulers refused outrigt to do so and instead used its own era names in corresponddence with Korea.

    By the Edo period Japan was already creating its own unique view of the world order with Japan replacing China as the center of the civilized world. Scholars from the time of Razan Hayashi and Soko Yamaga to that of Norinaga Motoori all saw Japan as the center of civilization, and from this period emerged the conviction that Japan was the Imperishable Holy Land. Japan had no diplomatic relations with China from the beginning of the Edo Period. In fact, Japan had not maintained official diplomatic relations with China from as far back as the overthrow of the Muromachi shogunate. Even then, the Edo Period experienced a revival of Confucianism!!

    Ancient Rome’s influence in the Mediterranean region remained strong even after the empire itself had met its end, but the advance of Islam in the 7th century cut off access to the Mediterranean and the Germanic nations, eventually to found the Holy Roman Empire. Japan introduced the ritsuryo (Chinese legal) system and not long thereafter, given the imminent fall of the Tang dynasty, terminated its dispatch of envoys to the Tang court. Once the Tang empire did indeed fall in 907, Japan no longer received any decisive influence from Chinese civilization on the mainland, nor was it sucessfully conquered by China/ Mongol Empire.

  235. antibeast says:
    @showmethereal

    Once Japanese visitors saw what happened to China after the Opium Wars they made the major and conscious decision to no longer follow China’s lead but instead learn from the West.

    That was due to Commodore Perry’s ‘Black Ships’ which forcibly opened Japan to foreign trade in 1853-1854. The first Opium War started a decade earlier in 1839-42 followed by the second Opium War in 1856-1860. The Meiji Restoration then proceeded to remake Japan into a modern nation based on Western models. While the Opium Wars did influence the Meiji Reformers, it was the shock of Perry’s ‘Black Ships’ which finally forced the Japanese to abandon the old world of Tokugawa Japan.

    • Agree: showmethereal
  236. Malla says:
    @antibeast

    Again I am not saying Japan is not a part from East Asian civilization, all I ah saying is that facts show that it charted a more unique trajectory compared to China and Korea, which is the nature of the Japanese anyways. This was to counter showmethereal’s assertion that during the period of China’s experiences with the West and Russia, Japan considered itself little brother. That is true for Korea, not Japan. Also the Japanese did not look down upon China because of its weaker position against modern European/Western nations. All it did was further encourage industrialization in Japan.

    The key characteristic that define a Civilization is its all-encompassing religion

    I would disagree in keeping that criteria as the most important one as by that criteria Buddhist South East Asian countries would belong to Indian civilization. Ankor Wat had many aspects of Indian mythology there. But anybody who goes to Thailand, Laos, Cambodia or Myanmar would realize that they are unique and different from India. I would say they are more unique and different from India than Japan is from China, Korea, Mongolia or Vietnam and I have already explained Japanese uniqueness.
    By the same criteria Latin America and vast parts of Africa would belong to Western civilization, which is not true. One thing of debate about Huntington’s classification is the cone of South America, who are predominantly Europeans (though Chileans may be more Mestizo with substantial Mapuche and other Amerindian ancestry) made up predominantly of Spaniards and Italians and add to that Germans, Ukrainians, French and even Welsh and English ancestry people. Spain and Italy as well as Portugal are part of Western Civilization but the Southern cone of South America is not.

    Russia has a complicated history compared to Eastern Europe due to the Mongol Conquests in the 13th century.

    I would say both, the combination of the Mongol Empire as well as Orthodox Christianity played a part in Russian+ Belarussian uniqueness in Europe/ Eurasia. Orthodox Christianity-Catholic Christianity differences did put a wedge in between Western and Eastern populations of Northern Slavs. Indeed this was a major factor in Polish-Lithuanian Empire rule over Ukraine.

    This was true only for the Manchu Obscurantists not the Chinese Nationalists like Sun Yat-sen who was educated in HK and the USA as well as Chiang Kai-shek who was educated in Japan. Sun was a Pan-Asianist who sought out Japan as China’s ally against the West while Chiang was a Japanophile

    Yes true, but that was much later. I was talking about Fukuzawa Yukichi’s Datsu-A Ron work which played a part in influencing Japanese policy towards Mainland Asia in 1885. He wrote it after he was heart broken that his Korean reformer student was killed in Korea.
    “In my view, these two countries [China and Korea] cannot survive as independent nations with the onslaught of Western civilization to the East.We do not have time to wait for the enlightenment of our neighbors so that we can work together toward the development of Asia.”
    Sun Yat Sen also wrote urging Japan to “leave the West just like Russia was leaving the West”.

    The myth that Confucianism militated against Chinese industrialism

    Not Confucianism. Confucianism modified correctly can work extremely well in a modern society. I am talking about the medieval state Qing China and Joseon Korea were in when the Europeans reached the East. Also Confucianism was losing its essence with time and was becoming more ritualistic just like was the case with Hinduism, Zoroastrianism etc… Ideologies can deteriorate with time until it may see a revival. Indeed without European scholars and their research on Vedanta (Jones, Muller), Hinduism would have not seen a revival. Ironically, this Hindu revivalism played a big part in the Indian Independence Struggle against British rule.
    Also why did Mao Zedong encourage criticism of traditional Confucianism during the Cultural Revolution? For modernization right? My point is not Confucianism which was the problem but that most of Asia were stuck in medieval age while Europe progressed. Europe too saw massive changes of its own, from its Medieval period to say the Victorian era. It was an age of revolutions, confusions and wars. England probably saw some major transformations due to the Industrial Revolution, the Brits did not get their Industrialization easy, there were sacrifices to be made. You will not believe this but in the medieval period British food was known to be good., there was an Italian traveler who was praising it. A combination of strict Protestantism (dislike for earthly pleasures) and the Industrial revolution changed British cuisine a lot.

  237. Malla says:

    As it were, the Manchu Obscurantists wasted the national wealth of China on opulent palaces such as the Yuanmingyuan

    That is how many medieval powers were, not unique to the Qing. This was the same for the Mughal Court in India where 30% of India’s GDP was absorbed to maintain an opulent court and properties.
    https://www.dailyo.in/politics/emperors-of-extraction-rana-safvi-the-mughals-did-not-make-india-rich-claims-of-their-welfarism-only-buttress-a-political-agenda/story/1/31483.html
    Emperors of Extraction: The Mughals did not make India rich. Claims of their welfarism only buttress a political agenda
    by Abhishek Mitra Iyer
    A riposte to Rana Safvi’s argument on how the Mughals apparently strengthened India, while, in fact, Europe grew by paces just then and India’s poverty shocked visitors.
    “Add to this the point that almost 1/4th of the Mughal state’s revenue was the emperor’s personal property, that 1/3rd of the revenues went into maintaining the Omrah (or court) and that between 60% to 70% of revenue was concentrated in the hands of just 655 nobles — that tells you all you need to know.
    The same Thomas Roe that Safvi quotes, for example, was shocked at the levels of poverty he encountered in India. The Mughal empire, like any medieval feudal empire, and the entire Islamic period in India was a period of economic stagnation — one that saw Europe steadily overtaking it even in the 1500s and reaching a massive power differential by the 1700s.”

    I was reading Valentine Chirol’s book on Persia and he came to the same conclusion about the Qajar court.
    Sir Valentine Chirol in his book “The middle eastern question; or, Some political problems of Indian defence” wrote in 1852
    “Whilst the road from Resht to Teheran affords a perfect illustration of Russian activity, it happened to afford, whilst I was passing over it, an accidental, but equally striking, illustration of Persian medievalism. The Shah was on his way back from Europe, and in accordance with immemorial custom, the whole of his Court, numbering thousands of retainers, was hurrying down to welcome him at the frontier. It was the strangest and most picturesque spectacle which the eye of an artist enamoured of quaint contrasts, or of a student in search of a typical presentment of the unchanging East, could hope to light upon. For hours at a time there streamed past us a ceaseless procession of camels, mules, horses, carts and litters, laden with the personnel and the paraphernalia of an Eastern Court.”
    …snip…
    “The extent to which the process of national impoverishment I have just described has affected the people of Persia can only be surmised indirectly from incidental manifestations of distress, but the desperate shifts to which the Court has been reduced in order to gratify its growing extravagance, bear abundant evidence to the penury of the State as a whole.”
    …snip….
    “To our ears two or three millions sterling may not sound a very formidable sum, but in Persia it means that the State is now spending, for the sole benefit of the Court, at the rate of nearly twice its normal revenue, and this when, in the usual course of things, an enormous proportion of the normal revenue already goes to the support of the Court. “

    Even in Egypt when the Brits took over when Egypt defaulted on loans (the French were more eager than the Brits to takeover but out of fears of the French, the Brits took over), the first thing they found was how much of the egyptian budget went to the Kedivate court expenses, Khedivates were still legally tributary states of the Ottoman Empire. Streamlining that was the first order of the day to make Egypt more solvent again.

  238. Anonymous[253] • Disclaimer says:
    @Smith

    Rubbish.

    • Replies: @Smith
  239. Smith says:
    @Anonymous

    Empires rise and fall.

    Tang dynasty who thought themselves the apex of Asia? Brought down by a single turkic rebellion by An Lushan.

    Never believe the hype, not even your own.

  240. @showmethereal

    For someone who obviously likes lecturing everybody so much, perhaps you should be more careful with the words you use.

  241. aspnaz says:
    @Mulga Mumblebrain

    Whatever. Why not try going to China and living there and only then declaring yourself an expert. You obviously have no idea, no idea at all about living in China. You are yet another useless westerner who adores China because it is some sort of vistory for your twisted ideas about socialism. I live it, you dream it. The fact that you and your friends on UR are so ignorant tells me everything.

    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
  242. The Chinese Miracle is selling slave labor to US corporations.
    Here is how they ran it.
    US corporation wants Chinese slave labor. Builds factory, trains workers.
    After 5 yrs they must vacate. Move to rural area build new factory, train new workers.
    Forced abortions, execution van that comes to your home, cuts out organs.
    Miracle~

  243. @Sick of Orcs

    The Western internet is “free” and 90% of the content is government domains and porn.

  244. @Smith

    But when the US is outta the way, that’s when China should worry, especially when Japan can have their own politics back.

    Why on earth would China fear Japan??? China is united again and is on it’s way to full modernization. If the US leaves – Japan is the one who is afraid because they think China will seek revenge (which it won’t). Fact is the only time Japan ever posed a threat to China – other than sea pirates robbing merchants) was when China was disjointed and then stunted by the 8 Nation alliance. That’s when Japan sought it’s opportunity to try to take over China. China’s weapons are modern – and in some cases lead… China is not ruled by warlords and different fiefdoms. There is no reason to fear Japan.

    Koreans would be nervous… But that’s why even in South Korea – they refuse to join any anti China Quad nonsense. They know from many centuries – that a strong China is what keeps them free from Japanese imperialism. Westerners tend to think it was just a 20th century issue. Nope – it goes back centuries that Japan tried to take Korea. China protected it.

    • Replies: @Smith
  245. @Che Guava

    Yeah it’s not just even the disputed rocks. Koreans always have had a fear of Japan wanted to the invade them again. They tried more than once over the centuries.

    Yeah Okinawa should have been given independence as Ryuku after WW2. The US gave it back to Japan – in spite of Japanese terms of surrender leaving it with just it’s 4 main islands – because the US wanted bases to fight China. I feel sorry for the Okinawa people. Even “voting” to get rid of US bases got them nowhere.

    • Agree: Che Guava
  246. India suffers from a fascination with feces, sewage and filth. See filthy India pictures: https://memolition.com/2013/05/23/filthy-india-not-for-sensitive-viewers-47-pictures/
    Dogs gnaw on corpses on the shore of the Ganges where people defecate, bathe and brush their teeth, swallowing the brush water so as not to waste food. These hygienic values are reflected in the thousands of dirty, run down Patel family motels that insult the U.S.

    South America has potential, but in Ecuador a 200% -300% import duty on books keeps the people ignorant. Medical service in Ecuador is pathetic, the doctors have the same condescending arrogance as American doctors but are utterly incompetent – having no medical books.

  247. @Bombercommand

    Some very friendly advice – Make use of paragraphs, and you will be far more widely read. Two to five sentences per paragraph as in most journalism – as in Pepe’s article here. Your comment looks like real work to read.

  248. Smith says:
    @showmethereal

    Japan under its own politics would challenge China. Japan under Hideyoshi invaded Korea and bankrupted the Ming dynasty forcing China to be rife with peasant rebellion and be ruled by manchu. Japan under Meiji invaded Korea and parts of China proper and helped ended the Qing dynasty.

    Just like an united Korea would. They wouldn’t stay as vassal like the historical Korea if the Kim family is in charge.

    The US is a joke and keeps Japan and South Korea ruled by capitalists who are easy for China to deal with, which is why it’s actually preferable to keep the status quo, hence China wanting to keep dipomatic ties with the clowns. But I think you know this already.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Malla
    , @Che Guava
  249. @aspnaz

    At least I’m NOT a racist. Where do you live-a province will do.

    • Replies: @aspnaz
  250. aspnaz says:
    @Mulga Mumblebrain

    Not a racist …. the progressive’s anthem.

  251. Anonymous[283] • Disclaimer says:
    @Smith

    Japan under Hideyoshi invaded Korea and bankrupted the Ming dynasty

    Not really. The late Ming dynasty of that era had 3 opponents, of which Japan was the LEAST powerful. yes, even the fully mobilized Japan of Hideyoshi – simply not as powerful in reality as other threats the Ming faced.

    The largest wars and the most powerful Ming armies were directed in continuous warfare against the Mongols. Yes, those Mongols, in Mongolia itself, the descendants of the Mongols of China who did not assimilate. Plus fighting skirmish battles against the Manchus and the Turks of Central Asia.

    The other large war was to (successfully) destroy an internal rebellion in China’s west and southwest. So, Ming imperial armies fighting huge break-away Chinese armies, and winning.

    The Ming force committed to Korea was the smallest force they could spare – no more than 100,000 men. But this was a high-quality force, enough to tip the balance against Japan.

    Ming fought successfully on 3 fronts, and succeeded on all 3 (in Korea, a joint victory with Koreans) – not bad for a dynasty widely considered, by Chinese, as being weak at warfare. (For sure, the Ming were not anything like the Yuan!)

    The Imjin War did not bother the Ming financially – it was simply too small to really matter. Of course, it did not help.

    Japan under its own politics would challenge China.

    Just like an united Korea would

    What do you mean by “Challenge”? Of course, you CAN’T mean war. Let’s be realistic here. The population of Japan is 127 million, and a united Korea is 80 million. So we have 207 million Japanese plus Koreans (LOOOL, assuming these 2 countries will become allies – which has NEVER, EVER happened in history – they REALLY hate each other).

    There are 1.4 billion Chinese – 7X as many, with a country that is just simply colossal. And of course, China is no longer backward, and advancing very, very fast. This is no longer the old China. Think about it – would Britain survive a war against the United States? Would Poland exist after a war against Russia? War is quick suicide.

    As to Japan and Korea will have their own independent foreign policies to “challenge” China?

    How can Japan and Korea having their own policies be bad for China? Japan, controlled by the U.S. is with the so-called Quad! That Quad is the best and ONLY hope of Japan to slow down China. NOTHING Japan could do on its own is worse than that, and would be much less effective.

    As for Korea, they already have their own policy towards China – they REFUSE to join the Quad. Can’t blame them, they don’t want to pick a fight with China, even with the U.S., India, and Australia offering them full support.

    • Thanks: showmethereal
    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Smith
    , @showmethereal
  252. FB says: • Website
    @aspnaz

    This has to be one of the prize-winning comments on this website, lol!

    This clown ‘aspnaz’ says he ‘lives’ in China, then starts in on ‘ten-year plans’!

    I literally can’t stop laughing out loud!

    I suppose this fool thinks everyone is as painfully stupid as himself?

    I seriously doubt this ‘world traveler’ has ventured much farther than that far corner shelf at Walmart, lol! You know, the one where they keep the special IDIOT JUICE! 🤣

    • LOL: Jazman
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @aspnaz
  253. FB says: • Website
    @Malla

    Malla disputes Mulga’s contention that Chinese have abundant personal freedom—pointing out that Indians have far more freedom.

    Which is of course true, in a sense—Indians are at liberty to drop a Stanley Steamer on the sidewalk 24/7, without fear of getting written up by the constabulary [who may in fact likewise drop ‘steamers’ at their own discretion, lol]!

    [MORE]

    A 1908 Stanley Steamer leaving the starting line at the Newport Antique Auto Hill Climb

    And since Malla is an enthusiastic Anglophile, he is going to enjoy the Beeb’s take on the issue:

    It’s early morning and local commuters are queuing up for tickets at the Kirti Nagar railway station in the Indian capital, Delhi.

    Along the tracks, another crowd is gathering – each person on his own, separated by a modest distance. They are among the 48% of Indians who do not have access to proper sanitation.

    Coming from a slum close-by, they squat among the few trees and bushes along the railway tracks and defecate in the open.

    A new World Health Organisation (WHO) report says more than half a billion people in India still “continue to defecate in gutters, behind bushes or in open water bodies, with no dignity or privacy”.

    —BBC News: Why do millions of Indians defecate in the open?

    Meanwhile, China’s CPC has lifted 800 million people out of poverty, and created the world’s BIGGEST consumer market, recently surpassing the US in terms of dollar size. In the glittering, spotlessly clean large Chinese metropolises, urbane, smartly-dressed young Chinese shop in fancy stores and tool around in stylish electric cars.

    And even while China is attaining civilizational leadership, their message to the western world is that human rights also includes fundamental things like freedom from poverty.

    Homeless tent cities are a common sight in the US, where these unfortunate folks similarly lack sanitation. who is thinking about their human rights?

    Perhaps it is not surprising that India has not been able to make much progress in these rights, like freedom from poverty and decent sanitation—seeing as the country’s regressive and reactionary Hindutva are taking their cue from the US. India being one of the few countries where public opinion of the US is high—over 80 percent, compared to under 20 percent in Germany for instance.

    Yet the Indians have no problems casting aspersions at China, and even cultivating open hostility.

    Remarkable. And the idiot Malla’s comments here give a clue as to the problem. Whether or not China’s civilizational rise is due to the CPC or the Chinese ‘character’, it seems that Indians are culturally set in their bad habits.

    ‘Just building toilets is not going to solve the problem, because open defecation is a practice acquired from the time you learn how to walk.

    When you grow up in an environment where everyone does it, even if later in life you have access to proper sanitation, you will revert back to it,’ says Sue Coates, chief of Wash (water, sanitation and hygiene) at Unicef.

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Malla
    , @Malla
    , @Malla
  254. Anonymous[283] • Disclaimer says:
    @FB

    Well, I don’t know about 10-year plans, but in fact, China has unveiled 3 consecutive 5-year plans, going out to 2036.

    Probably, they have made a “15-year plan”, but, since it would be a little jarring to old-time CPC members (“What is this, comrades? We make 5-year plans – 5-years, correct?”) the top guys decided to say “Oh, nothing is different, here we have uhhh . . . 3(!) 5-year plans, one after another! See, the same!

    • Replies: @antibeast
  255. Malla says:
    @Anonymous

    As for Korea, they already have their own policy towards China – they REFUSE to join the Quad.

    I did not know South Korea was offered a place in the QUAD, in which case it would not be a QUAD with 5 powers in it, maybe renamed as PENTA. There were even talks about Vietnam but nothing happened of it. The Philippines is trying to balance things in between the two big powers but basically Duerte smartly does not want the Philippines to turn into a huge battle ground in between Chinese and American forces like during WW2 in between Japanese and American forces.
    China’s biggest threat is actually a war with an USA-India alliance, USA with the technology and India with the numbers to throw as well as China facing a two front war similar to what Germany faced in both the World Wars. But the QUAD is collapsing now as India and USA seem to be falling out, so China is safe for now.
    But even then India like an idiot and for emotional pride reasons or whatever bullshit remains anti-China.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  256. Malla says:
    @Smith

    If Japanese elites was 100% independent and were truly smart and not driven by short term Japanese Corporation profits in mind, this could have been the game plan. It would have acquired nuclear weapons and ICBMs after WW2, which would have made any chance of a Communist invasion of the islands nearly impossible. Once done, clandestinely supported North Korea to take over South Korea. Then clandestinely support the anti-Dengist camp in China as well as China’s takeover of Taiwan. Without China becoming rich under a Communist Party+free trade model, Vietnam itself would not have embarked on the same road. Hongkong and Macau were to return to China anyways. This would keep the other high IQ East Asian populations in closed economic systems. With nukes in place, Japan would slowly pressurize the Muricans to leave and become 100% independent.
    So with large number of nukes and ICBMs, Japan would not face any security threat from the Communist nations nearby including the USSR or united DPRK or united PRC.
    Being in a closed economic system, Korean, Chinese or in the future maybe Vietnamese companies would not emerge as challengers to Japanese companies. No Samsung taking over market share from Japanese corporations. Also with no threat of nearby nations, Japan could have made the Muricans leave and become truly independent and maybe no Plaza Accords imposed on Japan by Muricans. It would have been a Banzai moment.

  257. antibeast says:
    @Anonymous

    Well, I don’t know about 10-year plans, but in fact, China has unveiled 3 consecutive 5-year plans, going out to 2036.

    Probably, they have made a “15-year plan”, but, since it would be a little jarring to old-time CPC members (“What is this, comrades? We make 5-year plans – 5-years, correct?”) the top guys decided to say “Oh, nothing is different, here we have uhhh . . . 3(!) 5-year plans, one after another! See, the same!

    THAT must be the dumbest shit I’ve ever read here on UNZ. Poster FB says China has no ‘ten-year’ plans. And he’s right as China does not and never had have any ‘ten-year’ plans since the founding of the PRC. Unveiling three ‘five-year’ plans at once does not turn them into ‘fifteen-year’ plans, get it?

  258. Malla says:
    @FB

    Here comes FB the idiot crackpot. Attacking me personally, when I have repeatedly criticized India’s idiotic anti-China stance. But I guess FB in his blind childish “Communist revolutionaries fighting evul Imperialist” simpleton model of looking at the world and playing childish games with tank toys in his mother’s basement. And may be an Anglophile but I am also a Sinophile, a Russophile, a Japanophile, a Germanophile..you name it. I have always maintained that brown black countries in the long term benefit with association with White-Yellow countries. With a few exceptions, that has generally been the case in recent history.

    The crackpot FB does not realize that (justifiably or unjustifiably), Indians look at P.R. China as an imperialist country, East India Company 2.0. But crackpot FB does not try to understand nations and how they think (rightly or wrongly) before going into a tirade for his favourite Communist China even when China is super Capitalist and went against its own Constitution to become Capitalist. Only sensible point he made was that the CCP does not allow Chinese oligarch Corporations to become to strong like the USA, which I am in agreement with.

  259. Malla says:
    @FB

    To understand Indian emotions and attitudes towards P.R. China, check out this patriotic song. Patriotic Song sung by a great Indian Muslim singer Mohammed Rafi. Go to Pakistan or Bangladesh and insult Mohammed Rafi and you would get raped on the streets (which FB enjoys), he is that respected. I have posted the colour one not the original black and White one which is more popular.

    00:00 minutes to 1:43 minutes
    Indian border village kid screams after seeing Indian border soldiers being killed by sneak attack by Chinese Imperialist Communist barbarians.
    1:45 to 2:35 minutes
    A crippled Indian Army officer reports to his superior officer that they have not given up their posts to the foreign Imperialist invaders even after heavy attack.
    2:35 to 3:01 minutes
    Poor Indian women from throughout the nation start donating their jewelry for the Indian Army in their fight against Chinese Communist invaders. Indian women love wearing jewelry and donating it away is a big thing, donating it for their poor nation and motherland.
    From 3:01 minutes
    Millions of Indians, teeming millions flood the streets to welcome back the bodies of martyrs to the motherland and to protest aggressive action against the motherland by Chinese Imperialists.
    4:51 minutes
    Chinese PLA soldiers try to rape a patriotic Indian border woman during questioning. One strong Indian village woman “equal to three tiny Chinese soldiers.”
    Finally at 5:31 minutes we see the border village boy saluting an Indian Army officer.

    The song in Hindi is about after we are gone, who till protect your motherland, who will take the heavy burden. Your motherland will always be invaded by foreign barbarian imperialists, who will take the heavy burden to protect your motherland. The small valley kid at the end by saluting the Army officer is symbolically showing that the children of India will take this heavy burden from the present adult generation to protect the motherland from foreign invaders.

    Now of course this is mostly propaganda bullshit. But all countries including China partake in propaganda. However the women donating their jewelry for the defense of their poor country as well as teeming masses protesting is not propaganda, it happened. However what I know is that the PLA treated Indian POWs very well, fed them, gave them medical services and took care of them at a time when China itself was a poor country and those PLA soldiers would themselves have much smaller rations and more basic medical support than today. And our slime-ball Indian Government did not allow this fact (good treatment by PLA troops) known to the people. What I am saying is when dealing with people, emotions is what matters, not historical facts. True for India , true for any nation. Most of official “history” is just propaganda anyways. FB being homo never been with a woman. When dating a woman, the emotions and feelings you create matters, not facts. Similarly the populations of nations are like women, they go more on emotions than on facts.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  260. Smith says:
    @Anonymous

    The Ming dynasty lasted less than 50 years after the Imjin war, and this last 50 years were full of tears and blood, it’s similar to how the Hun-Roman war where Attila failed in destroying Rome but left it unstable. I don’t know why the chinese act like it’s nothing but it’s not my problems.

    Independent Japan and Korea might be bad or good for China, but the fact is a re-militarized Japan and nuclear united Korea should worry China.

    The quad? The quad is led by the US, capitalist clowns, shove them enough money and they will back-off. As said, this is why China wants the status-quo, with the american clowns controlling Japan and half of Korea.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  261. Malla says:
    @FB

    The scene in the Indian patriotic video (post 264) by great singer Mohammed Rafi at 4:51 minutes where the Chinese PLA soldiers try to rape a patriotic Indian woman supporting her Indian army during interrogation. Well that scene was the most emotional to millions of poor Indians, because to 100s of millions of Indians she represented Mother India and “foreign Chinese invaders are trying to rape our holy motherland”. She also represented Goddess Sita, the most purest wife in Hindu mythology (remember the singer is Muslim Indian, very popular in Pakistan too) , wife of perfect Lord King Ram who came on Earth as avatar of Lord Vishnu to fight evil when injustice increases beyond a limit on Earth to bring justice on Earth.

    The lyrics in Urdu during the PLA rape scene was such
    Khech do apne khuun se zameen par lakeer, is taraf aane paaye na Raavan koi
    Draw out a line upon this earth with your blood and do not let any foreign barbarian demons (Chinese PLA) come this way

    Tod do haath agar haath uthne lage, chuu na paaye na Sita kaa daaman koi
    Break the enemy’s hand if his hand raises [against you] and let no one dishonor Sita (The woman at 4:51 minutes representing both Motherland and Goddess Sita for millions of Indians). After the rape attempt scene, the new scene shows the Chinese PLA solider dead.

    Raam bhi tum, tum hii Lakshman saathiiyon
    You are both Ram and Lakshman, fellow countrymen (Lakshman was Lord Rams brother who along with him fought the demon Kings in Hindu epic Ramayana)

    Ab tumhaare hawaale watan saathiiyon
    Now we entrust the heavy burden of protecting the holy motherland to you, fellow countrymen.

    You have no idea, what collective struggle the nation took during the 1962 war. They just do not go away from people’s mind this easily.

    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
  262. Rahan says:

    All of this is quite true, but until we reach the international Zoomer.

    It’s difficult to remember that theirs is the first post-human generation in various respects. They are the first to be born into an environment completely contaminated by microplastic, GMO, and other toxins that disrupt the endocrine system, and indeed the regulatory system of all animals, or as some might say “turn the frogs gay”.

    But perhaps more importantly they are the first virtual generation. We older folks were the last to live in a 100% physical world. Then it became 10% virtual, then 20%, and today it is 95% virtual, but to the Zoomer this is “natural”. This is an enormous difference that is difficult to overstate, and is so big as to be basically invisible.

    The Western zoomer does not remember the old rights, freedoms, privacies, and values. To him this is some fable of old farts. The Eastern European zoomer does not remember totalitarianism and its deprivations and humiliations. To him this is also a fable of old farts. The Chinese zoomer also does not remember the deprivations and humiliations of the 20th century.

    10-15 years from now, these post-humans will be taking over, across the world, especially across the northern hemisphere. Once this happens, there’s no going back. We, the last inhabitants of the old timey physical universe and the last generations to remember both the western freedoms and the eastern hell, need to build new safeguards into the fabric of the civilization that the zoomers will inherit.

    This goes for China too. Whatever applied to our different civilizations, applied before the zoomer. Theirs is a new breed that doesn’t really understand us when we speak of a world without mobile phones or the Internet, and a world with free speech, expanding freedoms, and rising affluence, or conversely total censorship and breadlines. To them this is as “real” as a Marvel film.

    And those who control the Internet’s information flows and general pop culture, controls the zoomer. Without safeguards adapted to this new reality, things will get very very post-human, and not necessarily in a nice way, once the global zoomer takes over. Or rather refuses to take over and just sits there with a blank stare.

    • Replies: @alwayswrite
  263. Rahan says:
    @Malla

    Well, one POV does not necessarily preclude the other. Both were very much present, and generic xenophobia + “scientific racism” did indeed play a widespread and vile role.

    Just because today globohomo abuses these concepts, as an excuse to lock us all into their dystopia, doesn’t mean this wasn’t true at one point. People were prejudiced and arrogant, and those who transcended this were a smart honest minority.

  264. Malla says:
    @FB

    drop a Stanley Steamer

    Freedom of expression and the freedom to shit can be the same thing to only one guy on this planet, our FB, because whenever he expresses himself, he shits all over the place. LOL.
    I am not aganist the CPC running China, their system is best for the Chinese and our system is best for us, Simple. And a saying goes in some parts of India, “It is better to be a free wolf than be a rich dog, anyways”.
    Indians definitely have more freedom than Chinese in the PRC and that is because of our Constitutions. Let Chinese have their CCP model, it is theirs but to claim that Indians have less freedom than Chinese in mainland China is stupidity. Indeed Indians in the British Raj had more personal freedom than Chinese during the Mao period, any day.

    This is from a Indian movie on the early days of our nation when the Constitution was written, the movie’s name is Samvidhan or Constitution. Discussions in both English and Hindi. Hindi ones I cannot translate but from 1:29 minutes to 2:11 minutes as well as from 2:40 to 4:10 minutes, they debate in English, make speeches in English (for people here to understand). Check out the discussions they have about freedom of speech in India as well as ways to safeguard these rights of all Indians. Our founding fathers took this very seriously as a democracy.

  265. @Anonymous

    Great comment…. Mongols and Jurchen (Manchu) were much more a threat than Japan was to China. In fact – even the Tibetan Empire was more of a threat. China eventually absorbed all of them. I really don’t get why these guys think China would ever be afraid of Japan. Japan was only ever a threat because of the 8 Nation Alliance that drained China. Japan is only a threat to China when it was weak and divided. Prior to that the main threat were sea pirates from Japan. Japanese were vicious warriors – but not more so than Mongols… As you noted – China pushed them off the Korean Peninsula. Had China been strong in the late 19th and early 20th – they would have sent Japan back again.
    Deep down Japan knows this which is why the are afraid of letting the US leave. They fear China wants retribution for the that time frame. China doesn’t – but they fear it deep down. When China was still weak they were fine with building a relationship in the 70’s and 80’s… Now that China is strong – they are nervous. But that is what happens when you don’t sincerely repent of your sins.

  266. @Malla

    Moon was asked directly by the US press if he would join Quad – and he said absolutely not. He said – thankfully the question was never posed to him by Biden. He said they have zero interest in antagonizing China. Korea knows their history (even if they don’t care for the CPC). And contrary to Japan the statement after the meeting with Biden – the one with Moon made no negative mention of China. Korea has no guilty conscience so they have no animosity toward China. In fact – many don’t have animosity toward North Korea….. But they do have animosity toward Japan.

    • Replies: @Malla
  267. @Smith

    The Ming dynasty ran it’s course. Most Chinese dynasties have a good run of about 200 years before beginning to decline. But as noted by “Anonymous” – that relatively minor operation to beat Japan didn’t bankrupt the Ming. That was a minor issue. The bigger issues were elsewhere. Japan is no threat to a strong China. Korea is a good associate of a strong China

    • Replies: @Smith
  268. Smith says:
    @showmethereal

    This reads like a bot post.

    It runs its courses coincidentally when Japan invaded Korea?

    Were all those peasant revolt, manchu invasion post-Imjin coincidences as well, I thought the Ming also bested them like Japan?

    Bah, the head of nationalists never change.

    And yes, it bankrupted the Ming, to pay for the Imjin war, the Ming emperor raised taxes all over which lead to peasant revolts, and the japanese piracy and fleet stop the source of trade which lead to the silver crisis.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  269. Malla says:
    @showmethereal

    Moon was asked directly by the US press if he would join Quad – and he said absolutely not.

    Moon Jae-in and his Democratic Party (Minjudang) are closet Commies anyways so have a good relationship with the DPRKand PRC. But I do not think that even the Liberty Korea Party would have joined QUAD. South Korea already has North Korea to worry about so I do not think it is in its interest in joining QUAD anyways. QUAD is most useful for India + USA to be honest, that is it. Indians are most eager for QUAD but Biden’s USA has back-stabbed India and the USA is beocming unpopular in India now, not as much as China obviously. So QUAD should break apart in the next 4 years maybe.
    Yes most South Koreans are more anti-Japan than even anti-North Korean but mostly due to anti-Japanese Empire propaganda by VANK. Anyways at least North Koreans are their own people, same ethnic group. And the Kim family of North Korea are at least strong and independent. So maybe many South Koreans take pride in this.
    What I find weird is that there are many Koreans living in Japan who attend North Korean schools. I do not understand why Japan allows this and why do they not return to Korea, South Korea at least which is very prosperous, with a standard of living close to Japan. The Americans did something weird in Japan. Would North Korea allow Japanese schools? No.
    It would be great if Korea could be united like Germany but I do not understand how interested the both sides really are and how this could be achieved. It is sad that so many families are divided, you could see them crying when they meet. There is a good Korean Movie named Tae Guk Gi: Brotherhood Of War, which I liked very much. In the last part of the movie both the brothers get divided, one fighting for North Korea and the younger brother for South Korea. If one wants to understand the emotion of love and devotion for your brother, this is one of the best movie ever.

    Tae Guk Gi: Brotherhood Of War

    Maybe if Japan could have got nukes, it could have secretly supported North Korea take over South Korea which would have been greatly advantageous to Japan and the two Korea’s would be united. With nukes, Japan would have no fear of a Communist invasion of Japan ever. After the Russian Bolshevik Jews killed off the Russian Imperial family, Japan’s main fear was the spread of Communism in East Asia. Chairman Mao on the other hand was very kind and magnanimous to the last Qing Emperor but that was after WW2.

    • Replies: @Smith
  270. Che Guava says:
    @Smith

    Nonsense. Nothing more worth saying.

  271. aspnaz says:
    @FB

    Name calling. Cool. I have landed back in kindergarten where FB, the American “toddler of Walmart”, thinks that I too am an ignorant American “Person of Walmart” because he cannot believe that anyone who lives in China could possibly connect to UR, is flabbergasted with the contradiction that anybody who lives outside of America must surely be as ignorant of the world as the FB’s of America.

  272. Smith says:
    @Malla

    Oh Malla, you and your usual anti-communist drivel.

    At the end of the days, it would be socialist/communist North Korea and Vietnam who can resist China, not capitalist nations like South Korea and Japan, and especially the king of capitalist, the USA.

    This is why China tries to smooth itself with South Korea and Japan, the corporations are easier to deal with than North Korea hard-liners i.e. people who aren’t blinded by greed.

    The biggest game change in the region would be a united Korea under the North, that’ll be something China itself doesn’t want (it wants the South to take control instead, and for the North to denuclearize).

    • Replies: @Malla
  273. Yee says:

    Smith,

    “Oh Malla, you and your usual anti-communist drivel.
    At the end of the days, it would be socialist/communist North Korea and Vietnam who can resist China, not capitalist nations like South Korea and Japan, and especially the king of capitalist, the USA.”

    LOL… Yeah, I agree. Finally someone gets it.

    Chinese forumers decided long time ago, the worst nightmare for China would be India goes communist.

    No one worry about tiny Korea or Vietnam though.

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Malla
    , @Smith
  274. Malla says:
    @Smith

    It would be in the interest of nuclear armed (and thus secure Japan) to see North Korea take over South Korea and remain under Juche ideology. Japan and North Korea have their own relations behind the scenes.
    Russia going Communist and China remaining Maoist in the early decades after WW2 actually gave the biggest benefit to the USA. Had Tzarist Russia followed its growth trajectory and China had opened up after WW2, the USA would have faced far more competition in the post WW2 period. By both being parts of closed systems, the USA could rule the roost.
    That is why I say if our Indian leadership would have been smart, they would have pushed for more Islamic fundamentalism in Pakistan, the only risk is an Islamic fundamentalist state with nukes. We could also have funded Communist parties but lets be honest, the Pakistan is not ever gonna go Commie. LOL. That would keep Pakistan backward. Same with Bangladesh. If India is smart, it is best to push Islamic fundamentalism in Bangladesh. On the other hand, I would Anglify or Westernise India. This would make India more advanced, strong and prosperous while keeping Pakistan a backward shithole.
    Similarly Pakistan would benefit by pushing for more Hindutva in India as it would cripple India in the long term. But unlike Islamic fundamentalism, Hindutva takes more time to screw up a nation. India going Hindutva would actually even benefit China. China opening up with Deng has actually been harmful to India.
    If the West would have been smart, it would have pushed for spreading Communism in the Third World. Communism if applied properly does a good job of keeping people poor but also reduces the birth rate. The only exceptions seems to be Africa because Africans suck at running anything above a tribe or Caliphate.
    The big threat is actually Fascism in any Christian type country or North East Asian country. United Korea as a fascist Capitalist system (with some Socialism) is a bigger long term threat to the USA or Japan economically than a pure Juche Communist United Korea. Samsung emerged from South Korea right? Not North Korea. More the West westernizes the non White World via liberalism more it creates headaches for itself. But we speak from a nationalist and racialist perspective not globalist Corporatism perspective. But Western leaders (and people) foolishly think in terms of either global trade or in terms of some ideology (White man’s burden which creates more long term burdens LOL, helping the weak or some other bullshit)
    That is why it would be in Japan’s interest to have a united strict Communist Juche United Korea. With nukes, Japan’s big fear of Communism coming to Japan would be gone. Fear of earlier Russian expansionism (to seek ports) and later the fear of the spread of Communism in mainland East Asia as well as its own idiotic White Man’s burden or Japanese man’s burden led to most of Japan’s pre-WW2 problems and actions. Add to that before WW2, other European powers/USA coming to East Asia and via inter European competition creating trade blocks excluding Japan. After WW2, it got the protection of the USA but a far better protection would have been if it had got its own nukes as well as ICBMs.

    • Replies: @Smith
    , @showmethereal
  275. @Malla

    Why not start a war then? Let’s see what a China vs India 2.0 looks like. All the pent-up hate. Let it out and start a war!!! I can’t wait to see what it looks like. I bet the Chinese are fed up too. This time, they would not stop because of USA or USSR. I bet on it.

    When other members of the quad just quietly watches the war, that would also be funny.

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @GomezAdddams
  276. Anon[289] • Disclaimer says:
    @Badger Down

    ….In 1904, it pleased the Jew Jacob Schiff to set Japan at war against Russia, to weaken her and pave the way for the Bolsheviks…..

    True and even today Schiff is celebrated by the small hats as a great success and example to follow. Christians should realize the divide and conquer methods of these small hat people are consistent today.

  277. @Malla

    I thought that Indians were the greatest rapists of Indian women. Particularly high caste raping low caste women and children, often murdering them to cover up the crime. And in gangs.

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Malla
    , @Malla
  278. Malla says:
    @Yee

    Chinese forumers decided long time ago, the worst nightmare for China would be India goes communist.

    How so? If India would have followed China’s path of some decades of Communism followed by Capitalism under a Communist country, I can see the point. However the probability of a successful pan-Indian Communist revolution in India was very slim unless if the US State Dept clandestinely had funded Communism in India like it did in Cuba and many other places. LOL
    India followed the Socialist model of Jewish Marxist philosopher Harold Laski. After 1930, he began to emphasize the need for a workers’ revolution, which he hinted might be violent. Laski’s position angered Labour leaders who promised a nonviolent democratic transformation.

    Laski was one of Britain’s most influential intellectual spokesmen for Communism in the interwar years. In particular, his teaching greatly inspired students, some of whom later became leaders of the newly-independent nations in Asia and Africa. Born to a Jewish family, Laski was also a supporter of Zionism and supported the creation of a Jewish state.

    Critics have often commented on Laski’s repeated exaggerations and self-promotion and his wife commented that he was “half-man, half-child, all his life”. Laski began teaching government at the London School of Economics (LSE) 1920. In 1926, he was made professor of political science at the LSE. Laski was an executive member of the socialist Fabian Society from 1922 to 1936. In 1936, he co-founded the Left Book Club along with Victor Gollancz and John Strachey.
    At the LSE in the 1930s, Laski developed a connection with scholars from the Institute for Social Research, now more commonly known as the Frankfurt School. In 1933, with almost all the Institute’s members in exile, Laski was among a number of British socialists, including Sidney Webb and RH Tawney, who arranged for the establishment of a London office for the Institute’s use. After the Institute moved to Columbia University in 1934, Laski was one of its sponsored guest lecturers invited to New York. Laski also played a role in bringing Franz Neumann to join the Institute who after fleeing Third Reich Germany almost immediately after Hitler’s takeover, Neumann did graduate work in political science under Laski and Karl Mannheim at the LSE. Laski was a proponent of Marxism and believed in a planned economy based on the public ownership of the means of production. Instead of, as he saw it, a coercive state, Laski believed in the evolution of co-operative states that were internationally bound and stressed social welfare. He also believed that since the capitalist class would not acquiesce in its own liquidation, the co-operative commonwealth was not likely to be attained without violence. Initially, he believed that the League of Nations would bring about an “international democratic system”.

    However, from the late 1920s, his political beliefs became radicalised, and he believed that it was necessary to go beyond capitalism to “transcend the existing system of sovereign states”. Laski was dismayed by the Hitler–Stalin Pact of August 1939 and wrote a preface to the Left Book Club collection criticising it, titled Betrayal of the Left. Between the beginning of World War II in 1939 and the Attack on Pearl Harbor in 1941, which drew the United States into the war, Laski was a prominent voice advocating American support for the Allies against Germany and Japan, became a prolific author of articles in the American press, frequently undertook lecture tours in the US and influenced prominent American friends including Felix Frankfurter, Edward R. Murrow, Max Lerner, and Eric Sevareid.. Laski tried to mobilise Britain’s academics, teachers and intellectuals behind the socialist cause, the Socialist League being one effort.

  279. Malla says:
    @Yee

    Laski was a gifted lecturer, but he would alienate his audience by humiliating those who asked questions. However, he was liked by his students, and was especially influential among the Asian and African students who attended the LSE.
    However Laski was always a Zionist at heart and anti-Catholic.
    Laski plunged into Labour Party politics on his return to London in 1920. In 1932, Laski joined the Socialist League, a left-wing faction of the Labour Party. In 1937, he was involved in the failed attempt by the Socialist League in co-operation with the Independent Labour Party (ILP) and the Communist Party of Great Britain (CPGB) to form a Popular Front to bring down the Conservative government of Neville Chamberlain who was making peace with Hitler.

    Laski had a huge long-term impact on support for socialism in India and other countries in Asia and Africa. He taught generations of future leaders at the LSE, including India’s Jawaharlal Nehru. According to John Kenneth Galbraith, “the centre of Nehru’s thinking was Laski” and “India the country most influenced by Laski’s ideas”. It is mainly due to his influence that the LSE has a semi-mythological status in India. He was steady in his unremitting advocacy of the independence of India. He was a revered figure to Indian students at the LSE. One Prime Minister of India said “in every meeting of the Indian Cabinet there is a chair reserved for the ghost of Professor Harold Laski”. His recommendation of K. R. Narayanan (later President of India) to Nehru (then Prime Minister of India), resulted in Nehru appointing Narayanan to the Indian Foreign Service. In his memory, the Indian government established The Harold Laski Institute of Political Science in 1954 at Ahmedabad.

    So what we see is that India was the most Laskian economy in the World after WW2 highly influenced by the teachings of Marxist crackpot Harold Lasky who loved the USSR, hated Hitler & Imperial Japan, wanted socialist revolutions as well as wanted nations to stop existing under the League of nations, a one worlder as well as a hardcore Zionist. This led to India having one of the lowest rates of growth for a long time called the “Hindu rate of Growth” after independence. Only the Swatantrya party led by ex-leftist Minoo Masani opposed Nehru’s ideas of a soft Marxist Laskian economic system. Since there was massive anti-British propaganda by the Congress leaders to rile up the Indian masses against the Government of India (British Raj) Indians were taught to fear the East India Companies coming to loot them motherland. India more or less closed its economy, nationalized many private companies and created the infamous license Raj. Everybody was jumping, farting at that time with glee that now Socialist India would become rich while evul British would be living in slums. But what we ended up with was some success and a lot of failures. Now Indians blame Nehru and his idiotic socialist policies for destroying India. But what they forget that in their hate British craze in 1947, they all supported Nehru’s Laskian socialist policies, so Nehru has been turned into a punching bag, the fall guy for the nation to feel better for being idiots.
    It is all comedy really.

  280. Smith says:
    @Yee

    That’s wrong tho.

    China’s worst nightmares is the current USA government going down. Why you ask?

    1. No more boogeyman to blame. Imagine China without the USA/5 Eyes to blame things upon.
    2. No more controlled opposition that actually hurt their allies, for example: Japan has to re-militarize instead of relying on shitty, expensive USA weapons, no more NGO forces forcing rainbow capitalists on Japan, India, Korea.
    3. And finally, no more forces holding back the above countries going socialist. The Japan Communist Party is already the 3rd biggest party in the Japan, the communist movement in India and the union movement in South Korea.

    In short, it’s actually beneficial for China to keep the USA in their current status so they in turn can keep China’s rivals in check, because capitalists are a fucking joke. This is why China has kept the “harmonious, binary superpowers can co-exist” narrative going on.

  281. Smith says:
    @Malla

    Samsung nowadays is a South Korean company in name only.

    I always thought as a joke ever since that guy RDM brought it up as a part of Korean ingenuity, pro-tip: look at its owners. Samsung’s owners are actually majority multinational people (i.e. americans).

    So the south koreans work hard just so the americans can just swoop in and harvest. I actually wouldn’t be surprised if similar things are true for some japanese corporations like Toyota (biggest production is in US or China) or Sony (moved to California).

    That’s “capitalist” to you, the right to sell shit to americans. And no, no “capitalist” force is in opposition to the USA, that’s a joke.

  282. Malla says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    Calm down dude, I personally do not want a war, India is acting like a fool, India has a lot to gain from China, especially the poorer sections who idiotically are the most riled up by Nationalism. I am explaining to FB how people feel on the ground. He needs to understand things can be much more complicated than just Imperialists vs Communists.
    Your leaders at the CCP are way more smarter than you. In some meeting this year they came to the conclusion that India (due to Indian hyper-nationalism) is a bigger problem for China than Australia or Japan and the best way to handle this is to “manage India”. Yes manage India, put balm on its ego from time to time but remain solid, think you are dealing with an angry kid.
    China has more to lose with a war with a poorer country like India with nukes. It would be stupidity. Firstly India is not a pushover, it has significant military capacity with a huge army though much weaker than China’s military capacity. And even if China defeats India, which is very likely, it would lose more if India launches nukes on China’s more advanced first world like cities.
    This is the same relationship India has with Pakistan, India may be stronger than Pakistan but Pakistan is no pushover having significant military capabilities. India has more to lose from a nuclear exchange with Pakistan which is much more backward. Are you going to trade global IT hub Bangalore with Rawalpindi? Similarly is it worth it to trade first World Shanghai with slum infested Mumbai? This is true even if India’s nuclear capabilities are far less. And that is what India is banking on, China has more to lose to see its shiny cities damaged.

    And a Chinese defeat of India will feed into the Indian nation’s nationalist “desire for revenge for humiliation to motherland against red Chinese barbarian Imperialists”. They will scream for a thousand years for revenge. Look what a tiny border conflict has done to Indian hypernationalist mentality. You cannot exterminate 1.3 billion Indians on their way to rise to 1.8 billion in few decades.
    The CCP’s strategy to somehow “manage India” is far more smarter strategy and in China’s interest. Thanks God, the Chinese Government has smart people in it and not idiots like FB.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
    , @anon
  283. Yee says:

    Smith,

    “China’s worst nightmares is the current USA government going down. ”

    Well, it’s better USA decline over the next 30 years instead of 10, and unless a war breaks out, I think a slow decline is more likely.

    You place too much emphasis on the small nations, they wouldn’t have significant impact on China no matter what they do, simply because the difference of scale in everything.

    India is the only nation with the potential to rival China, as long as they don’t go communism, we’ll be happy.

    • Replies: @Smith
  284. Smith says:
    @Yee

    China’s history of getting conquered and dismantled by smaller nations, or tribes even, doesn’t leave the best impression.

    But meh, not my problems.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
    , @antibeast
  285. @Malla

    I would be honest with you. If I was in charge, the second war wouldn’t be a small skirmish, but a war to push to the Indian Ocean. You think of trading cities, but I think in terms of annihilation for pests. But but, you are 1000% right to thank whatever power that be that someone like me is not in charge of China or in power in China lol. I really have no patience these days, life is too short to be wasted on pests. I personally much prefer to end problems once and for all. As I get older, I finally understand people like Stalin. Just a consequence of running out of patience.

    Maybe that is the entire purpose of all this farce. It doesn’t work on the Chinese but it worked on me 😛

    And I am sorry that you have to live with very, very stupid fellow countrymen. I know exactly how you feel as an American. Also as a person with no skin in the game(I don’t support going around the globe murdering people), it is just so bizarre that India would ever want to join in the might be deadly mud fight between US and China as a fodder. And yes, it is fodder. I honestly don’t know where your confidence in the Indian military comes from. This faith is 100% why I believe you are an Indian though lol.

    Live free and prosper.

    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
    , @Malla
  286. anon[283] • Disclaimer says:
    @Malla

    India is acting like a fool, India has a lot to gain from China, especially the poorer sections who idiotically are the most riled up by Nationalism.

    Yes manage India, put balm on its ego from time to time but remain solid, think you are dealing with an angry kid.

    These statements capture the heart of the matter, I think.

    It has been observed that the Indian peoples and cultures are immature, emotional and tantrum-prone. I refuse to believe these stereotypes, but with Malla’s recommendations above, maybe there is some truth to them.

    The anecdotes call Indians adults only on the outside, while inside they have the qualities of children and adolescents. Children in that their needs, including emotional, must be met, or they throw a fit. Adolescents in that their insecurities run very deep, so they compensate by display, boasting and chest beating.

    A great many Indians do not fit these stereotypes. They are reasonable, can indeed work hard, and exhibit great intelligence.

    But then there are the others. Those Indians who’s first reaction to the success of his fellow Indian is to derail, obstruct and destroy that success. He/she does not think of working to perform better, when it’s so much more natural to strive to make someone else fail, instead.

    There’s a story of the Indian crabs, right? It seems this story is from India itself.

    Take a huge basket, fill it with crabs. Leave that basket completely uncovered. Observe. Not a single crab will ever make it out of that uncovered basket. Not one. Because as soon as he moves toward the edge, all the other crabs drag him back down. Is the story meant to be a metaphor, an Indian observation of their own society?

    On the other hand, there are memoirs to the effect that should someone be encountered who is already, at that moment, more capable and more formidable than they, Indian culture is very deferential.
    The key here is your process of rising, your effort in doing so, and your humble beginnings must not be known or witnessed. Then the person assumes that is simply the way things are, and behaves accordingly. A holdover from the caste system?

    Anyone advancing , working hard and long to move up in life, and is seen to be doing so, is not only grudgingly acknowledged, as in the West, but is seen as a living insult and walking reproach to the rest. This person must be hindered, slandered, in extremis, killed. Then the rest can ease their inner psychic trauma – essentially by removing the point of comparison.

    The funny thing is, maybe it was all in their heads? Maybe that enterprising Indian was just living his own life, and never looked down on anyone, ever? No matter, his very existence causes the insecurity to well up.

    There is nothing that can be done when someone has decided that he simply hates you with every fiber of his being. Someone who makes it his sole reason for living to bring you down. That person is neurotic, and unbalanced.

    Best to combine the approaches of ignoring that person, keeping him at bay, and managing the situation. A concession here, some honeyed words there, – a minimum effort, maximum payoff approach. Take solace in the certainty that the crazy fool is wasting all his energy in hatred, and really cannot stop you.

    Well said, Malla. Well said.

    • Replies: @Malla
  287. Seraphim says:
    @Smith

    But every time China recovered.

    • Agree: showmethereal
    • Replies: @showmethereal
  288. @Smith

    A “bot post”…?? No… But you have reverted back to your usual “anti China” reading of history even if it is plain false.

  289. @Malla

    Question…. In your scenario – how was Japan ever going to get nukes and ICBM’s??? Japan lost in the war…

    • Replies: @Smith
  290. Malla says:
    @Mulga Mumblebrain

    I thought that Indians were the greatest rapists of Indian women.

    And they are going to show that in a patriotic video?? Especially Indians who cannot accept any criticism of themselves. “We are perfect and the most peaceful, ancient wise nation and the rest of the World is out to get us” mentality. The World accuses the Chinese of having face saving culture, but they have not studied us Indians.
    The rape attempt scene by the PLA soldier on the Indian woman is a juxtaposition of many elements.
    Firstly in Indian mythology Lord Ram represents the avatar of Vishnu, one of the major Gods running this universe. In the famous epic Mahabharata, an ancient tale, Lord Krishna one more avatar of Vishnu (of Vishnu taking human or animal form including Ram and Krishna) tells Arjuna at the battle of Kurukshetra that whenever evil and injustice (Adharma-wrong behaviour) becomes dominant on Earth ,”I shall come”. To annihilate evil and bring back Dharma (righteous behaviour).
    Lord Ram represents the God King and his rule is called Ram Rajya (Rajya in English means realm). An utopia where there is no poverty and people live in happiness , peace and prosperity and righteous lives. When Ram was exiled with his brother Laxman and his wife Sita in the forests, the demon Lord Ravan took Sita away. Sita represents the perfect wife, the most righteous woman. Indian couples pray to God that their daughter be born like Sita, and pray that their son gets a wife like Sita. When Ravan, the demon king took Sita away, Ram and Laxman raised an army to get Sita back and to annihilate the demon King Ravan. The defeat of evil and unrighteous behaviour.
    Historically Indian kings have taken the name Ram many times to signify good Kingly rule, inspired by Lord Ram. And enemies barbarians (Mleccha) like the Muslim invaders and even the British (and later the Chinese) have been historically shown as Ravan the demon King, the evil one to be annihilated by righteousness.

    In the video, the Indian woman at scene 4:51 minutes signifies both Goddess Sita and Mother India and the PLA as demon barbarians. What is interesting is that the poem was written by a famous Muslim Indian poet Kaifi Azmi written in a flash of inspiration at 1 AM during the war. It was sung by another Muslim Indian very famous in Pakistan and Bangladesh too, Mohammed Rafi. So Muslims wrote and sang about Hindu Gods, which is forbidden in Islam!!! This shows how before the crackpot Hindutva BJP, Indian Hindus and Muslims got along so well that Muslims would sing Hindu mythology because it belongs to the land of India. And that the 1962 war, united the nation against the enemy.

  291. Malla says:
    @Mulga Mumblebrain

    So the juxtaposing works like this. The Great Mohammed Rafi Sahab sings like this and it goes with these scenes.

    Urdu: Khech do apne khuun se zameen par lakeer, is taraf aane paaye na Raavan koi
    Translation: Draw out a line upon this earth with your blood and do not let any foreign barbarian demons (Chinese PLA) come this way
    When this is sung at 4:47 minutes we see an Indian solider with his stomach wounded, crawling on the ground and thus creating a line with his own blood. This is related to the Ramayana, where Ram draws a magical line called “Laxman Rekha” to protect Sita from the demons. The demons use other techniques to get Sita out, that is a different story but here Goddess Sita is equated to the Motherland. So the Indian soldier with his blood on the soil is drawing a Laxman Rekha to keep the invader Chinese “demons” away from the motherland. Notice he uses the word Raavan in the song, who was the arrogant demon kings drunk on his power and thought he could do anything he pleased and acted on Adharma or break Dharma. So the blood of Indian soldiers draw the Laxman rekha to protect glorious motherland from Communist Imperialist demons.

    Urdu: Tod do haath agar haath uthne lage, chuu na paaye na Sita kaa daaman koi
    Translation: Break the enemy’s hand if his hand raises [against you] and let no one dishonour Sita.
    During the first part of the verse at 4:51 minutes”Break the enemy’s hands” the video shows the PLA soldier at raise his hand to rape at the woman and then she fights back. Which sighnifies that when the ney raises his hand, Mother India fights back against the invaders. The next scene (5:02 minutes) shows the PLA officer dead during which he sings “let no one dishonour Sita”. That is this is what should and will happen who tries to dishonour great Goddess Sita just like the foolish but arrogant demon king Raavan who was inevitably annihilated by righteousness and good, by God. The dead PLA officer shows the fate eventually awaiting the foolish and arrogant Communist invaders, annihilation by the forces of good, by righteousness and dharma.

    Urdu: Raam bhi tum, tum hii Lakshman saathiiyon
    Translation: You are both Ram and Lakshman, fellow countrymen
    When this is sung, we see Indian soldiers march (5:07 minutes). Which signifies they are both Ram and Laxman who avenged the dishonour of Goddess Sita and killed demon king Raavan. Thus Indian soldiers are Ram and Laxman who will protect the motherland and annihilate evil invaders like Ram and Laxman did the same for Goddess Sita. Remember Sita here is juxtaposed with Mother India.

    Urdu: Ab tumhaare hawaale watan saathiiyon
    Translation: Now we entrust the heavy burden of protecting the holy motherland to you, fellow countrymen.
    Again there is double meaning. the soldiers say we have died fighting the enemy Communist Imperialist barbarian hordes, now we leave it to you fellow countrymen to protect your glorious motherland. Similarly it also speaks to the future generation of Indians to take the burden of protecting their motherland from foreign imperialists. That is why the poor village boy salutes the Indian Army officer at the end where he is saying that the next generation of Indians will take the heavy burden of protecting the motherland from foreign invaders.

    The song shows the marvels of technological and cultural advances with which the nascent country sought to keep pace and by the very real threat of encroaching communism. The song classically depicts the motherland as a new bride to be defended and death as a welcome sacrifice to preserve her honour. With godlike bravery and fortitude that surmounts all obstacles, the soldiers in “Kar Chale Hum Fida” transcend from life to death, from idealistic to divine. Hope is derived from the constant refrain that entrusts the responsibility of the nation to the next generation.

  292. Malla says:
    @Mulga Mumblebrain

    There is one more interesting element in the song. BTW, this song was believed to be one of Kaifi Azmi’s most beautiful poems.
    In the beginning part at 2:34 minutes , where the poem gives respect to the women from throughout India who started donating their jewelry, poor women/ rich women, North Indian women/South Indian women all of them donated their jewelry for the national cause of their poor nation against the foreign Chinese invaders, the lyrics goes like this.
    Urdu: Zindaa rahne ke mausam bahut hain magar jaan dene ki rut roz aati nahiin
    Translation: There are many seasons to live, however, the time to give your life for nation does not come every day
    Urdu: Husn aur ishq donon ko ruswaa kare woh jawaanii jo khoo.N mein nahaatii nahiin
    Translation: What displeases beauty and love are youth that do not bathe in blood
    Urdu: Aaj dhartii bani hai dulhan saathiiyo
    Translation: Today your motherland became a bride, dear fellow countrymen.
    Thus the donation of jewelry for the national cause and struggle against the invaders by the women of India has been used to deck your motherland who is like a bride. In Indian marriages, women deck themselves with jewelry.

    There is one more scene which was very interesting but it is not in this version but maybe in an extended version.

    The brilliant montage of an Indian soldier’s death guarding the borders of his motherland with his wife turning off their bedroom lamp. Trace each shot and its mis-en-scene carefully from left to right to understand the genius of this editing sequence.
    The soldier is sent to the border with a tiny boxful of earth and seeds that his young bride tells him to plant in the barren borderlands of Ladakh with the borders with Tibet. But he is wounded mortally in the crossfire with the invading Chinese enemy and falls on his side to the ground in a medium close-up. CUT: A reverse shot of his wife on their bed reaching to the lamp. She flicks the light off. CUT: Reverse reaction shot of the soldier lying on the battlefield, he smiles at her. CUT: She smiles in return, flirtatiously switching the lamp back on. She turns it off again and moves closer to him. Her eyes close as if to sleep. CUT: A gunshot is heard and the Indian soldier falls dead in a close-up. CUT: Wide-shot of an enemy Chinese PLA invader standing over his body with a warm gun. CUT: Close-up of the box of earth his wife had given to him, flung to the side.

    What does it mean? Here, a man and a woman completely separated by time and space are juxtaposed back-to-back and we as an audience immediately understand what is happening. How extraordinary, if you think about it. the Indian soldier is imagining that he sees his wife, recalling an earlier memory of them lying together in bed. We recognize that he is dying and the symbolism of her lamp flicking on-and-off is suddenly clear. When her lamps turns off and she falls asleep, he will never awaken. It is a tantalizing moment as the people were both fearful of this inevitable poetic death, but also hypnotized by her flirtatious smile and playfulness with the light. The brilliance of the editing transported the audience suddenly from the cold battlefield on the borderlands of the nation close to the dangerous enemy to the warmth of a bedroom and the intimacy of a couple in love somewhere safe deep inside the country far away from the enemy. People wanted him to join her almost as much as they needed him to remain alive. The close-up of earth after his murder assumes the wife’s logical next position in the editing of the sequence, invoking the classic symbolism of India as a new bride whose honor is worth dying for. Saving the honour of women and brides is of primary importance in a clannish culture of India requiring even sacrifice.
    Also though criticized for his failure to “anticipate Chinese attacks,” Prime Minister Nehru himself blessesd the song with a brief cameo (3:40 minutes) derived from archival footage . However Nehru is called a traitor and a secret Chinese agent by Indian nationalists today.

  293. antibeast says:
    @Smith

    The only foreign people who succeeded in defeating China militarily were the Mongols AFTER they had conquered the whole of Eurasia using Chinese military technology. The Manchu conquest of China was more of a political coup followed by a Civil War pitting Han troops loyal to the Ming against the Manchu usurpers and their Han defectors. Nobody else succeeded in conquering China militarily, not the mighty British Empire who preferred to trade nor the genocidal Imperial Japanese Army who resorted to invading Southeast Asia

    • Thanks: showmethereal
    • Replies: @showmethereal
    , @Smith
  294. @Astuteobservor II

    India would be OK if Modi was gone, they co-operated with China instead of licking the boots of Jews and Five Eyes who hold them in contempt, and if anthropogenic climate destabilisation was not about to render their country uninhabitable.

    • Replies: @Malla
  295. anonymous[391] • Disclaimer says:
    @Alfa158

    I have a slightly different view of how our capitalism evolved after WW2.
    Before WW2 the now obviously misnamed ‘Middle Class’ did not exist. It was a working class mired in the Great Depression.
    WW2 spawned our new, large, and overwhelmingly white ‘Middle Class’ which demanded the highest standard of living of all people on Earth. Political savvy demanded that our capitalism continue providing that high standard.
    Because the purchasing value of the dollar kept sinking the only solution to avert disaster was to shift the production of the staple-goods and services of our new middle class to places of cheap labor. The need is diametrically opposed by “America First”.
    In fact the need and search for cheap labor has been a major theme of the capitalist economy from day one. It still is.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  296. Malla says:
    @anon

    Well said, Malla. Well said.

    Thanks. Love the CCP or hate the CCP, I tell you they have some smart people in them. This is the most pragmatic attitude to have towards India. When I first heard about this strategy my response was “they are smart.”
    China gains nothing having a war especially when it has worked hard to build up so much. Manage the enemies, be strong but keep calm & composed. The USA might want China to make false moves.

    The anecdotes call Indians adults only on the outside, while inside they have the qualities of children and adolescence

    Honestly, the human species as a whole behaves like children and adolescents but I guess Indians take it to a higher level.

  297. Malla says:
    @Mulga Mumblebrain

    India would be OK if Modi

    What rubbish, it is Modi who has cooperated the most with China. I hate Modi but he remains very popular. BJP or Congress or even Communist, India will remain anti-China because China being an imperialist enemy of India has solidified in Indian heads and hearts (wrongly). Just like Communist or democratic, China will remain anti-West , this is what the idiots in the West do not realize.

    • Disagree: GomezAdddams
  298. Malla says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    Clam down it is just a patriotic propaganda video, every country makes this shit. There are many more, but I just posted one to make FB understand something.

    in terms of annihilation for pests.

    Your mass murder tendencies are coming out and so I can understand your love for Stalin. Wow great. Nepalis hate India so India should “annihilate the pests”. Many people hate the USA, so USA should “annihilate the pests.” How the hell do you annihilate 1.4 billion people?

    India would ever want to join in the might be deadly mud fight between US and China as a fodder.

    India does not consider itself cannon fodder. It joined for mutual security. Anyways it got back stabbed by the USA. Does not change its stance on China. But the situation is thus far better for China, India on its own cannot do shit to China.

    I honestly don’t know where your confidence in the Indian military comes from.

    I don’t, India will lose, Indians are chest-thumping like idiots. But India is no pushover either, it can do some serious damage before it goes down.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathu_La_and_Cho_La_clashes
    “The Nathu La clashes started on 11 September 1967, when China’s People’s Liberation Army (PLA) launched an attack on Indian posts at Nathu La, and lasted till 15 September 1967. In October 1967, another military duel took place at Cho La and ended on the same day.
    According to independent sources, India achieved “decisive tactical advantage” and managed to hold its own against and push back Chinese forces.[1][2][3] Many PLA fortifications at Nathu La were destroyed,[8] where the Indian troops drove back the attacking Chinese forces.[1] The competition to control the disputed borderland in Chumbi valley is seen as a major cause for heightening the tensions in these incidents. ”

    Anyways do not worry, it seems that the CCP strategists are far smarter and wiser than you and me and maybe Indian strategists.
    Chairman Mao’s biggest mistake regarding India was because of his narrow Marxist view of the World where he mistakenly (but understandingly) termed Indian behaviour in 1962 as sepoy behaviour. Actually what China was dealing with was the Indian Independence Movement guys who fought the British Raj and who formed the deep state of the the new country of India. What Chairman Mao should have done is get some retired Viceroy’s of India as well as top level ex-British officers of India, gave them an invitation, showed them around China, showed the progress made under Socialism and all that , given them a sumptuous Chinese feast , impressed them with some expensive Moutai Baiju and finally got about to ask them about India “What the Hell are we dealing with here? What are these irritating hornets making noise, suddenly stinging and always complaining? What do they want?” They Brits would have been able to explain to the baffled Chinese side exactly what they are dealing with, the psychology of the Indian deep state due to their own deep experiences. Even though most of those Viceroy’s of India of the early 1900s were quite Indophiles, love India and Indian culture and all that. So they would have been for team India due to their simple affections for the place. But atleast the Chinese side would understand exactly what kind of people they are dealing with. But now it is too late to do that, not much use now.

    Live free and prosper.

    Same to you. Live free and prosper Brother.

  299. @Alfa158

    I take great issue with your “pesky American workers” crap.

    As a retired industrial electrician (U.A.W. Journeyman) and having worked for over 40 years in that vocation, I can honestly tell you that every factory where I was treated with respect, I gave back 110% and in the factories where I was being treated like dirt, I gave them much less than that – union shop or no union shop. Almost all of my co-workers conducted themselves likewise.

    The ONLY “problem” with American workers, for the most part, is that the people at the top, with their insatiable GREED, do not give a damn about their workers any longer. The only thing that matters now is the bottom line.

    MY country, the United States, has gone (in my lifetime) from being a country that manufactured useful products, with workers receiving relatively decent wages, to being a country where the growth industry is screwing people out of money.

    By the way, I use my real name. I am not ashamed of my views, because I can back them up with FACTS. Thank you.

    • Agree: GomezAdddams
  300. @Seraphim

    Don’t mind Smith… he isn’t serious about anything except being anti Han Chinese. Nations that last thousands of years are bought to have down turns. As you noted – China always recovered – and all of it’s neighbors that attacked them or even conquered them – they eventually absorbed them… But he doesn’t care about reality. Just anything to make Han Chinese look bad.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  301. @anonymous

    “Because the purchasing value of the dollar kept sinking the only solution to avert disaster was to shift the production of the staple-goods and services of our new middle class to places of cheap labor. ”

    Indeed. People seem to forget that before moving overseas – production moved from the Northeast and Midwest to “the South” for cheap land – cheap labor – low taxes – low unionization rates. Then once they saw that worked – Mexico – Guatemala – – Japan – Korea – Hong Kong – Taiwan – Mainland China – Thailand – Vietnam etc etc.

  302. @antibeast

    Good points. Fact is that is why the Anglo Empire – and Japan still hate China so much. China is the only non-white they didn’t fully conquer (aside from Afghanistan) that they tried too. Sure they took advantage of a weakened and arrogant China – but they never conquered the entirety of China. In fact – only Japan was crazy enough to try. The other members of the 8 Nation Alliance were willing to settle for port cities. So correct the Mongols were the only ones (and yes they absorbed Chinese military tech and used it to conquer Eurasia) and they were eventually absorbed into China. Most don’t even realize more Mongols live in China than in the country of Mongolia today.

    • Agree: GomezAdddams
    • Replies: @antibeast
  303. Seraphim says:
    @showmethereal

    Right, just keep in mind that this is applicable to Russia too.

  304. lloyd says: • Website

    Since its economic liberalisation from the 1970s, China has been held back by its English language deficit. This was mostly caused by its English language teachers being Western hippies, themselves deficit in English grammar and usage. They came to China because they couldn’t do anything better with their College degrees. I came to China with advanced knowledge of English grammar, was actually persecuted and occupationally terminated for that. My glib tongue and sometimes confusion didn’t help. Spies infiltrated my classroom and teaching grammar was almost a crime. That paralleled the issue in the West with teaching literacy. Then, it seemed to be overnight, it completely changed. I was pleaded to stay at my College and called by the administrator “an excellent teacher” That may seem a dry matter overlooked by the Western media but is as important as anything else happening in China. It would be the equivalent that after publication of the book Johnny Can’t Read, American leadership set out to teach the next generation of youth how to read books, instead of focusing on Sputnik. In the next generation, the notorious Chinglish is most likely to disappear, replaced by expert professional English. The British Empire achieved teaching professional English throughout its domains. Not so good in Africa results. But consider Singapore and Silicon Valley South Asia. China could do that because in China, their system finds out a problem, and then sets out intelligently to solve it. In the West, a problem is discovered, the power or privileged groups fight every inch to preserve the old system. The media distorts the issue to make profitable news stories. Then nothing is solved.

    • Thanks: GomezAdddams
  305. antibeast says:
    @showmethereal

    The map below shows the Mongol Empire before its conquest of Song China:

    Kublai Khan completed the conquest in 1276, 70 years after his grandfather Genghis Khan founded the Mongol Empire in 1206. Many of the Song Dynasty military officers and government officials later fled to Vietnam where they helped the Tran Emperor fight off the Mongol invasion.

    That Viet poster ‘Sean’ does not even know his own history! He thinks the Mongol Empire was just a small tribe which managed to conquer Song China, 70 years after its founding when it spanned the whole Eurasian continent!

    • Thanks: Showmethereal
  306. @Astuteobservor II

    India went bye bye in 1963—–it will again go bye bye–Modi or not,

  307. Smith says:
    @antibeast

    Uh, let’s see:

    Let’s start with Qin:
    Qin dynasty – broken by internal squabble/conquered by Han/Shu.
    Han dynasty – broken by internal squabble/usurped by Cao Clan and then Xima Clan.
    Tang dynasty – broke by a turkic rebellion started by An Lushan.
    Song dynasty – first half conquered by the Jin/Khitdan (this is where Mandarin comes from), and then rest by the Mongol.
    Ming dynasty – broken by Manchu.
    Qing dynasty – broken by 8 nations.
    ROC – PRC – currently still in civil war.

    And that’s not counting the smaller dynasties, I’d say it’s fair to say China does get its ass handed to them via smaller nations and even tribe (the tribe led by An Lushan).

    • Replies: @antibeast
  308. Smith says:
    @showmethereal

    Oh, how is it plain false?

    I note that you sometimes snipe a comment, but always refuse to elaborate, why?

    Every nations have its up and down, sure, but pointing out China is humbled by smaller nations is somehow bad?

    I’m not anti-Han chinese btw, I’m anti-imperialism and anti-historical revisionism, no matter if you are chinese, white or black.

  309. antibeast says:
    @Smith

    You originally claimed that China was ‘conquered’ numerous times by foreign powers but internal rebellions such as the An Lushan don’t qualify as ‘conquest’ by foreign powers. China was indeed ‘invaded’ but not ‘conquered’ except by the Mongol Empire. The Manchu Conquest of China started as a political coup as Han generals defected to the newly-installed Qing which then fought a Civil War against the Ming loyalists. The Jin Dynasty was established by the Jurchens who are the ancestors of the Manchus but the Song later helped the Mongols to sack the Jin from where they got their military technology such as the trebuchets.

    So technically, only the Mongol Empire succeeded in ‘conquering’ China which fought 1,000 wars, won or lost, with an exchange of territories over a 2,200 year period.

    • Replies: @Smith
  310. Smith says:
    @antibeast

    An Lushan rebellion resulted in the total breakdown of the Tang dynasty, which leads to them and the Tibetan sacking Chang’an, and the creation of warlord states, 5 dynasties, 10 kingdoms that lasted 70 years.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Dynasties_and_Ten_Kingdoms_period

    If that isn’t complete conquest of the Tang, I don’t know what is.

    Yep, the Song helped the Mongols sack the Jin, but the Jin conquered North Song beforehands, and then it’s the mongols who conquered both Jin and South Song later, creating the Yuan dynasty.

    I don’t know what coup you are talking about, but the fact some Ming generals defected and helped Manchu killing their own kin isn’t a good look for the Ming. You probably mean this guy who opened the Northern gate for the manchu to come:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_Sangui

    And I don’t think the Han ethnic chinese consider this guy to be a hero, but a traitor as much as Song Huizong.

    In the end, all the Han are forced to cut their heads and follow the queue, and themselves adopt the manchurian dress and wear their dress/customs. In fact, modern chinese are probably closer to Manchu in culture than the Han, which is it’s funny when the singychink said the Han absorbed Manchu.

    • Replies: @antibeast
  311. antibeast says:
    @Smith

    The Chinese Empire had already become divided into many states long BEFORE the Fall of the Tang in 907. Here’s its Wikipedia entry:

    The Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms period (907–979) was an era of political upheaval and division in 10th-century Imperial China. Five states quickly succeeded one another in the Central Plain, and more than a dozen concurrent states were established elsewhere, mainly in South China. It was the last prolonged period of multiple political divisions in Chinese imperial history.

    Traditionally, the era is seen as beginning with the fall of the Tang dynasty in 907 and having reached its climax with the founding of the dominant Song dynasty in 960. In the following 19 years, Song gradually subdued all remaining states.

    Many states had been de facto independent kingdoms long before 907 as the Tang dynasty’s ability to control its officials gradually waned, but by this point, they had now been recognized as such by foreign powers. After the Tang had collapsed, warlords who controlled the Central Plain crowned themselves as emperors. During the 70-year-long period, there was near constant warfare between the emerging kingdoms and alliances they formed. All had the ultimate goal of controlling the Central Plain, which would have granted legitimacy over currently held territories and the rest of China as Tang’s successor.

    The last of the Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms regimes was Northern Han, who held out until 979 when Song officially conquered it, thereby reclaiming all of the territory of the former Tang dynasty.

    The Tibetan Empire did conquer Xinjiang as well as parts of Sichuan, Gansu and Yunnan, and had briefly occupied Chang’an but the Chinese repelled and fought the Tibetans until the Sino-Tibetan Peace Treaty. Here’s a map showing that Chang’an was outside the maximum extent of the Tibetan Empire:

    The Ming Dynasty was suffering from revolts led by Li Tzu’cheng who had already taken Beijing when the Ming Emperor committed suicide. Ming General Wu Sangui then defected to the Manchus who had established themselves as the newly-installed Qing Dynasty in a political coup. What followed next was a Civil War pitting Han armies of the Qing Dynasty against Han armies of the Ming Dynasty loyalists.

    Any more questions?

    • Replies: @Smith
  312. Smith says:
    @antibeast

    No questions, just comments.

    You are admitting that the An Lushan rebellion did break the Tang and destabilize China, which leaving to various empires taking a bite out of it.

    And the other is a Ming general who defected to manchu and unleashed the Manchu conquest of China. One more tidbit: said general later rebelled against the manchu, called himself a Han emperor and got executed by manchu. Such 4D chess.

    None of this goes against what I said, but this glorification of Wu Sangui is very strange, Han people doesn’t like him.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @antibeast
  313. Anon[283] • Disclaimer says:
    @Smith

    As with all such ancient identities as China’s (oldest one still going out there, no sign of stopping), it’s very hard to simply say they are one genetic group. China is a great many genetic groups, all related.

    In fact, as you know, what we call “China” was not always what it is today. When the country first unified in 221 BC, it was because apocalyptic wars had been fought to make it unified. Probably, all those erased empires and kingdoms were all different ethnicities, originally. But they saw each other as one race, so here we are.

    DNA testing has revealed that 1/8 of the modern Chinese genome comes directly from the Mongols. So if you meet an average Chinese, he might have significant Mongol genes. And probably other significant percentages come from the Manchus, Turkueh, Tibetans, Thai and Viets.

    It’s possible that the part of China’s genome that directly comes the original peoples of 5,000 years ago has morphed many times.

    But what does it matter? If a group all say they are one race, and all of them agree, and support each other accordingly, who cares who absorbed whom?

    What matters is the civilization and the culture, the identity of the nation, And there, it is 100% clear that the “Chinese” (I did not say Han) have been around almost forever.

    I don’t know about Chinese outside, but inside China, they consider Hubilie, Emperor Shizu of Yuan. as one of China’s mightiest rulers.

    You might know him as Kublai Khan.

    • Thanks: showmethereal
    • Replies: @Smith
  314. antibeast says:
    @Smith

    The An Lushan rebellion was more of a Civil War which weakened the Tang Dynasty and allowed the Tibetan Empire to conquer Xinjiang and parts of Sichuan, Gansu and Yunnan. While the Chinese Empire split into several States after the Fall of the Tang, the Chinese fought against the Tibetans who were kept at bay until the Song finally unified China.

    I am not implying that Wu Sangui or the Manchus are well-regarded by the Hans. All I did was to point out the manner in which the Manchu Conquest of China was accomplished through a political coup in Beijing when Wu Sangui defected to the newly-installed Qing Dynasty after the suicide of the last Ming Emperor following the revolt led by Li Tzu’cheng. Had Wu not defected to the Qing and instead had fought against the Manchus, then Li would have succeeded the Ming Dynasty as the new Emperor of China. But the Han armies of Wu ended up fighting against the Han armies of Li. Wu himself later rebelled against the Qing but lost to the Manchus who became the second alien rulers of China, after the Mongols who were the first and only alien invaders to successfully conquer and rule the whole of China.

    I stand by my earlier statement that no foreign power had been able to conquer and rule all of China, with the lone exception of the Mongol Empire. Not the British who were only interested in trade nor the Japanese who occupied and ruled only the peripheral parts of China, i.e., Manchuria and the coastal cities but not the inland cities of Central China which had always formed the historic center of China. Beijing became the capital of China only under the Mongols during the Yuan Dynasty.

    • Replies: @Smith
  315. Smith says:
    @antibeast

    An Lushan was an ethnic conflict, the Tang had a system where they recruited turkic tribes as part of their vassals so they fought for them, similar to the foederati roman-barbarian system the Roman had. An Lushan decided to say fuck it I’M KING NOW similar to the Franks in Europe. It cannot be a civil war because An Lushan didn’t fight to keep the Tang, but to destroy it and replace it with a Yan dynasty where he was emperor. Of course, he failed in that, but his rebellion destroyed the Tang.

    And I’m sorry man, but the manchu did conquer China. The “coup” you mentioned was Wu Sangui, the general who guarded the Northern gate opened it for the manchu to come.

    The fact some Ming generals later defected and fought for the manchu to slaughter Han is another thing, but you will find this common in chinese history. During Jin and Mongol conquests, some Han stayed behind and fought for Khitdan and mongols against their own kin, just like when the japanese invade, some Han fought for the japanese. These are usually called Hanjian, and it’s still a thing nowadays.

    • Replies: @antibeast
  316. Smith says:
    @Anon

    The chinese identity is a created by the Qin, as a meant to unite the warring states into their previous dynasty the Xia.

    When Liu Bang beats the Qin, he calls everyone under his rule to be Han, no matter if that someone is used to be Han, Shu or Qin.

    But when the manchu conquers of China and creates the Qing dynasty, the manchu wanted that China (the land) does not belong to the Han alone, but other ethnicities such as manchu and mongol (to justify their rule), so there is “inner chinese” and “outer chinese”.

    When the ROC beats the Qing, they hugely persecute the manchu and enforce the Han rule over China, but these guys lost to the communists/Maoist, who preach China belonging to everyone and warn of Han chauvinism/nationalism, which makes them closer to Qing than Ming/older Han rule. Many “han chinese” up to this point are just straight out manchu/mongol who hide their identity.

  317. antibeast says:
    @Smith

    Chinese engineers who were captives of the Mongols after the sacking of the Jin ended up serving the Mongol Empire which succeeded in conquering almost the whole of Eurasia before its conquest of Song China. That was different from the Ming General Wu defecting to and later rebelling against the Manchus who had installed themselves as the Qing Dynasty in Beijing, thus commanding the Han armies as well as the Han bureaucracy. That’s why the tongmenghui led by Sun Yat-sen referred to the Manchus not so much as invaders but as usurpers of the throne. This was similar to how Lenin — with the help of Jewish bankers in the West and Jewish Bolsheviks in Russia — had established himself as the leader of the October Revolution against the Romanovs and then subsequently leading the Red Russians in the Russian Civil War against the White Russians which led to the founding of the USSR. That was a political revolution followed by a Civil War, albeit with funding and support of foreign interests as well as military intervention by foreign powers.

    You’re right that Hanjians such as Wang Jingwei and Emperor Puyi served as puppet leaders of Japanese-sponsored States in China during WWII. But those Hanjians had a different role than the Ming General Wu because the Japanese invaders didn’t declare themselves to be the new rulers of the Chinese Empire but as the new rulers of the Japanese Empire, much like the Mongol Empire. The Manchus didn’t possess a State of their own but had to usurp the Imperial throne of the Chinese Empire because they could not have created a Manchu Empire of their own. Whether or not there were Han defectors to the Manchus or Mongols or Japanese is orthogonal to the issue of which State they were representing, i.e., the Ming General Wu was defecting to the Manchu rulers of the Chinese Empire while Wang Jingwei and Emperor Puyi were defecting to the Japanese Empire. That’s two different things: Manchus as alien rulers vs Mongols (or Japanese) as alien Empires.

    This is my last post to you on this topic as we are just going around in circles.

    • Replies: @Smith
  318. Smith says:
    @antibeast

    This is pretty much the coping of the decade.

    By that logic, the mongols, the japanese, the europeans were not invaders, but just usurpers to the throne because they have helps from various chinese officials. This is how chinese rationalize being conquered I guess, if you can’t win against them, join them.

    Meh, again, not my problem.

  319. anon[287] • Disclaimer says:

    Smith is so absessed with china. he must be a big fan. seems like he won’t be satisfied if china is not eternally great under han. Eternally Great under Han! if not, he will be angry, blaming, satire.
    wonder why did that happen

    • Agree: littlereddot
    • Replies: @Smith
    , @littlereddot
  320. Smith says:
    @anon

    I’m not fond of Han or Manchu.

    But I do say Manchu clothes are way better, Hanfu always seems kinda cringe to me, cheongsam is form fitting and sexy. Then again, maybe because the Han has never been given a chance to modernize their clothes like the manchu and japanese and vietnamese.

    And manchu sabre >>>>> chinese sword and japanese sword.

  321. @anon

    Very true. I mostly read the comments, and observe the commenters. What amuses me is observing how their minds work.

    Smith absolutely hates China, which is no surprise, as Vietnamese are brought up to be that way. He also loves Japan, almost as much as he loves communism. To him, if a cup is at the 50% mark and filled with Chinese tea, then it would be horribly half empty. If it were similarly at 50% mark with Japanese tea, then it would be gloriously half full. I am not saying any of it is right or wrong, it is just plainly clear.

    Malla, is definitely Indian. One can tell from the copious amounts that he writes. Where I live we have plenty of contact with Indians, so I am familiar with this cultural aspect of theirs. Over here, the one profession that they are far over represented in is law. Indians just luuuuuuurve to talk and argue. Never mind if it doesn’t make much sense, but why be succinct when you can have ample bombast? Again not saying it is right or wrong, it is what it is.

    Aspnaz is just a American. What else can I say?

    • Replies: @Smith
  322. Smith says:
    @littlereddot

    That’s a bit overboard.

    I don’t overly hate China nor I do overly love Japan. Both are great cultures and both have flaws, with Japan more because they are a total US vassal nowadays.

    The issue is again history, sometimes China has its ups and downs, when I mention the downs, people usually get mad, but this is history, they cannot escape from that.

    Also, China cultural exports have been terrible since the 00s, which do contribute to my preference of Japan, since they have better cultural exports.

    My dabbling in communism is also very recent, I used to be anti-communist, until I read classical economist like Micheal Hudson and compare USSR’s economy with 50s America.

    • Replies: @Deep Thought
  323. @Smith

    Also, China cultural exports have been terrible since the 00

    What is that? The year 0000 AD, or the year 2000 AD?

    • Replies: @Smith
  324. Smith says:
    @Deep Thought

    The 2000s.
    You know all the awesome mainland chinese shows back then. The atmosphere, the grits.

    For example:

    Now it’s like this (same source material):

    What happened?

    • Replies: @Deep Thought
  325. @Smith

    The 2000s.

    You know all the awesome mainland chinese shows back then. The atmosphere, the grits.

    For example:

    No Smithie, I was NEVER aware of any Chinese “cultural exports” (except the government sponsored “Confucius Institutes”) from China for a couple of hundred years before the year 2000– until I see the above post of yours!

    Generally, you can successfully export your culture only when your country have become sufficiently richer than the countries you export your culture to– like Japan from the 1960’s to around the 2000’s. I still can remember the enormous popularity of all things Japanese then. I also remember that from around the mid-1900’s, Korean cultural exports (the K-pops for example) gradually displaced Japanese cultural exports in my part of the world. Today, neither of them seems important.

    I never suspected that China had it for the simple reason that, before about 2000, China was still very poor– even in its “richest” city of Guangzhou then. I know because my work took me there and other Mainland Chinese cities from time to time. That it exported these “awesome mainland Chinese shows back then” AT ALL surprises me when I learn it from you today!!!

    China in the year 2000 was probably in about the same league as Vietnam is TODAY.

    Therefore, there are 2 questions:

    1) If the Chinese could have exported these “awesome mainland chinese shows back then”, where are the “awesome Vietnamese shows” exports TODAY???!!!

    INDEED,

    What happened?

    2) If, even as an ethnic Chinese, I did not bother to pay any attention to these “all the awesome mainland chinese shows” around the turn of this century, what drives YOU, who so despise the Chinese, to spend so much time and energy to monitor such unworthy Chinese cultural exports???!!! Why the obsession?

    Of course, manga, and K-pops, were not always the popularly accepted cultural exports in history. 2000 years ago, it was Confucian culture– which was totally obliterated by manga and K-pops in late 20th Century. TODAY, even manga and K-pop lie in the bins of history. It is Facebook, Twitter, etc that are hot– Even the Chinese government’s propaganda department use them!!!

    But, but… Facebook, Twitter don’t belong to China. So, the Chinese surely cannot derive any pride from them!!!

    But wait! There is something called Tik Tok.

    https://www.socialmediatoday.com/news/tiktok-remains-the-most-downloaded-app-in-q1-2021-according-to-new-data/597672/

    “TikTok Remains the Most Downloaded App in Q1 2021, According to New Data”

    WHAT the hell is going on?! Where is our TokTik, that belongs to Vietnam???

    The Buddha is goddamned unfair. WHY does He make TikTok, instead of the Vietnamese TokTik, “the Most Downloaded App in Q1 2021” and therefore a most successful cultural export!!! Certainly the Vietnamese, rather than the despicable Chinese, deserve that honour.

    To save “face”, Smithie must now conduct an epic historic struggle on the UNZ forum to demonise, belittle, trash,… China and the Chinese to get even with the Buddha for His biased action, and to make the Chinese KNOW THEIR PLACE on behalf of the viets’ white masters!!! ;-D, ;-D, ;-D

    I think it is time for me to go to bed!

    • Replies: @Smith
  326. Smith says:
    @Deep Thought

    Uh, HK movies and TV shows were huge cultural exports, some of the mainland chinese shows use the same source materials (Jin Yong novels).

    I used to watch those as a kid, and I can still watch those nowadays, the issue is that the modern shows aren’t like the older shows and quality have been decreased, even SFX become worse.

    I’m just asking “what happened”?

    TikTok is just a video sharing service, you can see many kind of countries videos on it, ironically, probably most are made by americans. Most videos are also short and content-less, so I don’t care for it.

    • Replies: @Deep Thought
  327. @Smith

    Uh, HK movies and TV shows were huge cultural exports,

    Those, and music/songs, were very popular in HK when it was still a British colony. I heard that they were exported to the Chinese communities in SE Asia from some time in the 1960’s onwards.

    I don’t know if they were also popular among the non-Chinese in SEA. I wonder what your relationship with the ethnic Chinese in Vietnam was– since you “used to watch those as a kid”?

    Their popularity waned even in HK since around the 1990’s or even earlier.

    some of the mainland chinese shows use the same source materials (Jin Yong novels).

    That must have happened after the CR. One saying was that Jin Yong came to HK in order to escape the Maoists since Jin’s Kungfu novels were considered reactionary in the revolutionary China then.

    TikTok is just a video sharing service, you can see many kind of countries videos on it, ironically, probably most are made by americans.

    The contents are international but the way of delivering the contents is due to ByteDance. A specific way of doing a certain thing can also be considered a kind of cultural trait.

    “In 2020, the TikTok copycats began to emerge, both in the form of competing startup apps and new features on long-established platforms….”

    https://www.ypulse.com/article/2021/03/02/heres-how-social-media-is-competing-with-tiktok-in-2021/

    • Replies: @Smith
  328. Smith says:
    @Deep Thought

    Pretty much everyone in SEA watch those TVB shows made from Jin Yong novels, you can find Cambodian dub of those shows on Youtube now. It’s just like Romance of the 3 kingdoms.

    They have a ton of mainland shows about Jin Yong novels after the 00s, my point is that after the 00s, there’s a huge quality drop.

    I don’t find anything particular chinese about TikTok tbh, unless dancing terribly and shaking ass is chinese 🙁

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