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9/11 was the foundation stone of the new millennium – ever as much indecipherable as the Mysteries of Eleusis. A year ago, on Asia Times, once again I raised a number of questions that still find no answer.

A lightning speed breakdown of the slings and arrows of outrageous (mis)fortune trespassing these two decades will certainly include the following. The end of history. The short unipolar moment. The Pentagon’s Long War. Homeland Security. The Patriot Act. Shock and Awe. The tragedy/debacle in Iraq. The 2008 financial crisis. The Arab Spring. Color revolutions. “Leading from behind”. Humanitarian imperialism. Syria as the ultimate proxy war. The ISIS/Daesh farce. The JCPOA. Maidan. The Age of Psyops. The Age of the Algorithm. The Age of the 0.0001%.

Once again, we’re deep in Yeats territory: “the best lack all conviction/ while the worst are full of passionate intensity.”

All along, the “War on Terror” – the actual decantation of the Long War – proceeded unabated, killing Muslim multitudes and displacing at least 37 million people.

WWII-derived geopolitics is over. Cold War 2.0 is in effect. It started as US against Russia, morphed into US against China and now, fully spelled out in the US National Security Strategy, and with bipartisan support, it’s the US against both. The ultimate Mackinder-Brzezinski nightmare is at hand: the much dread “peer competitor” in Eurasia slouched towards the Beltway to be born in the form of the Russia-China strategic partnership.

Something’s gotta give. And then, out of the blue, it did.

A drive by design towards ironclad concentration of power and geoconomic diktats was first conceptualized – under the deceptive cover of “sustainable development” – already in 2015 at the UN (here it is, in detail).

Now, this new operating system – or technocratic digital dystopia – is finally being codified, packaged and “sold” since mid summer via a lavish, concerted propaganda campaign.

Watch your mindspace

The whole Planet Lockdown hysteria that elevated Covid-19 to post-modern Black Plague proportions has been consistently debunked, for instance here and here, drawing from the highly respected, original Cambridge source.

The de facto controlled demolition of large swathes of the global economy allowed corporate and vulture capitalism, world wide, to rake untold profits out of the destruction of collapsed businesses.

And all that proceeded with widespread public acceptance – an astonishing process of voluntary servitude.

None of it is accidental. As an example, over then years ago, even before setting up a – privatized – Behavioral Insights Team, the British government was very much interested in “influencing” behavior, in collaboration with the London School of Economics and Imperial College.

The end result was the MINDSPACE report. That was all about behavioral science influencing policymaking and most of all, imposing neo-Orwellian population control.

MINDSPACE, crucially, featured close collaboration between Imperial College and the Santa Monica-based RAND corporation. Translation: the authors of the absurdly flawed computer models that fed the Planet Lockdown paranoia working in conjunction with the top Pentagon-linked think tank.

In MINDSPACE, we find that, “behavioral approaches embody a line of thinking that moves from the idea of an autonomous individual, making rational decisions, to a ‘situated’ decision-maker, much of whose behavior is automatic and influenced by their ‘choice environment’”.

So the key question is who decides what is the “choice environment’. As it stands, our whole environment is conditioned by Covid-19. Let’s call it “the disease”. And that is more than enough to beautifully set up “the cure”: The Great Reset.

The beating heart

The Great Reset was officially launched in early June by the World Economic Forum (WEF) – the natural habitat of Davos Man. Its conceptual base is something the WEF describes as Strategic Intelligence Platform: “a dynamic system of contextual intelligence that enables users to trace relationships and interdependencies between issues, supporting more informed decision-making”.

It’s this platform that promotes the complex crossover and interpenetration of Covid-19 and the Fourth Industrial Revolution – conceptualized back in December 2015 and the WEF’s choice futuristic scenario. One cannot exist without the other. That is meant to imprint in the collective unconscious – at least in the West – that only the WEF-sanctioned “stakeholder” approach is capable of solving the Covid-19 challenge.

The Great Reset is immensely ambitious, spanning over 50 fields of knowledge and practice. It interconnects everything from economy recovery recommendations to “sustainable business models”, from restoration of the environment to the redesign of social contracts.

The beating heart of this matrix is – what else – the Strategic Intelligence Platform, encompassing, literally, everything: “sustainable development”, “global governance”, capital markets, climate change, biodiversity, human rights, gender parity, LGBTI, systemic racism, international trade and investment, the – wobbly – future of the travel and tourism industries, food, air pollution, digital identity, blockchain, 5G, robotics, artificial intelligence (AI).

In the end, only an all-in-one Plan A applies for making these systems interact seamlessly: the Great Reset – shorthand for a New World Order that has always been glowingly evoked, but never implemented. There is no Plan B.

The Covid-19 “legacy”

The two main actors behind the Great Reset are Klaus Schwab, the WEF’s founder and executive chairman, and IMF Managing Director Kristalina Georgieva. Georgieva is adamant that “the digital economy is the big winner of this crisis”. She believes the Great Reset must imperatively start in 2021.

The House of Windsor and the UN are prime executive co-producers. Top sponsors include BP, Mastercard and Microsoft. It goes without saying that everyone who knows how complex geopolitical and geoeconomic decisions are taken is aware that these two main actors are just reciting a script. Call the authors “the globalist elite”. Or, in praise of Tom Wolfe, the Masters of the Universe.

Schwab, predictably, wrote the Great Reset’s mini-manifesto. Over a month later, he expanded on the absolutely key connection: the “legacy” of Covid-19.

ORDER IT NOW

All this has been fully fleshed in a book, co-written with Thierry Malleret, who directs the WEF’s Global Risk Network. Covid-19 is described as having “created a great disruptive reset of our global, social, economic and political systems”. Schwab spins Covid-19 not only as a fabulous “opportunity”, but actually as the creator (italics mine) of the – now inevitable – Reset.

All that happens to dovetail beautifully with Schwab’s own baby: Covid-19 “accelerated our transition into the age of the Fourth Industrial Revolution”. The revolution has been extensively discussed at Davos since 2016.

The book’s central thesis is that our most pressing challenges concern the environment – considered only in terms of climate change – and technological developments, which will allow the expansion of the Fourth Industrial Revolution.

In a nutshell, the WEF is stating that corporate globalization, the hegemonic modus operandi since the 1990s, is dead. Now it’s time for “sustainable development” – with “sustainable” defined by a select group of “stakeholders”, ideally integrated into a “community of common interest, purpose and action.”

Sharp Global South observers will not fail to compare the WEF’s rhetoric of “community of common interest” with the Chinese “community of shared interests” as applied to the Belt and Road Initiative (BRI), which is a de facto continental trade/development project.

The Great Reset presupposes that all stakeholders – as in the whole planet – must toe the line. Otherwise, as Schwab stresses, we will have “more polarization, nationalism, racism, increased social unrest and conflicts”.

So this is – once again – a “you’re with us or against us” ultimatum, eerily reminiscent of our old 9/11 world. Either the Great Reset is peacefully established, with whole nations dutifully obeying the new guidelines designed by a bunch of self-appointed neo-Platonic Republic sages, or it’s chaos.

Whether Covid-19’s ultimate “window of opportunity” presented itself as a mere coincidence or by design, will always remain a very juicy question.

Digital Neo-Feudalism

The actual, face-to-face Davos meeting next year has been postponed to the summer of 2021. But virtual Davos will proceed in January, focused on the Great Reset.

Already three months ago, Schwab’s book hinted that the more everyone is mired in the global paralysis, the more it’s clear that things will never be allowed (italics mine) to return to what we considered normal.

Five years ago, the UN’s Agenda 2030 – the Godfather of the Great Reset – was already insisting on vaccines for all, under the patronage of the WHO and CEPI – co-founded in 2016 by India, Norway and the Bill and Belinda Gates foundation.

Timing could not be more convenient for the notorious Event 201 “pandemic exercise” in October last year in New York, with the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security partnering with – who else – the WEF and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. No in-depth criticism of Gates’s motives is allowed by media gatekeepers because, after all, he finances them.

What has been imposed as an ironclad consensus is that without a Covid-19 vaccine there’s no possibility of anything resembling normality.

And yet a recent, astonishing paper published in Virology Journal – which also publishes Dr. Fauci’s musings – unmistakably demonstrates that “chloroquine is a potent inhibitor of SARS coronavirus infection and spread”. This is a “relatively safe, effective and cheap drug” whose “significant inhibitory antiviral effect when the susceptible cells were treated either prior to or after infection suggests a possible prophylactic and therapeutic use.”

Even Schwab’s book admits that Covid-19 is “one of the least deadly pandemics in the last 2000 years” and its consequences “will be mild compared to previous pandemics”.

It doesn’t matter. What matters above all is the “window of opportunity” offered by Covid-19, boosting, among other issues, the expansion of what I previously described as Digital Neo-Feudalism

or Algorithm gobbling up Politics. No wonder politico-economic institutions from the WTO to the EU as well as the Trilateral Commission are already investing in “rejuvenation” processes, code for even more concentration of power.

Survey the imponderables

Very few thinkers, such as German philosopher Hartmut Rosa, see our current plight as a rare opportunity to “decelerate” life under turbo-capitalism.

As it stands, the point is not that we’re facing an “attack of the civilization-state” . The point is assertive civilization-states – such as China, Russia, Iran – not submitted to the Hegemon, are bent on charting a quite different course.

The Great Reset, for all its universalist ambitions, remains an insular, Western-centric model benefitting the proverbial 1%. Ancient Greece did not see itself as “Western”. The Great Reset is essentially an Enlightenment-derived project.

Surveying the road ahead, it will certainly be crammed with imponderables. From the Fed wiring digital money directly into smartphone financial apps in the US to China advancing an Eurasia-wide trade/economic system side-by side with the implementation of the digital yuan.

The Global South will be paying a lot of attention to the sharp contrast between the proposed wholesale deconstruction of the industrial economic order and the BRI project – which focuses on a new financing system outside of Western monopoly and emphasizes agro-industrial growth and long-term sustainable development.

The Great Reset would point to losers, in terms of nations, aggregating all the ones that benefit from production and processing of energy and agriculture, from Russia, China and Canada to Brazil, Indonesia and large swathes of Africa.

As it stands, there’s only one thing we do know: the establishment at the core of the Hegemon and the drooling orcs of Empire will only adopt a Great Reset if that helps to postpone a decline accelerated on a fateful morning 19 years ago.

(Republished from Asia Times by permission of author or representative)
 
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  1. When Bear Stearns was murdered outright March 10th 2008 around 11:00am New York City time it became evident that USD was a dead and defunct Petrodollar Hegemon that was finished historically in light of the incompetence of the Gorilla of Wall Street that leveraged Lehman Brothers Inc. 44:1 on the premise that the Government of the United States of America would backstop his bad bets if they went South.

    MIT, Princeton, Brown, Harvard, Oxford, Columbia, Yale, et certera, all bet the farm on the fourth largest investment bank in the world at that juncture because they all believed the tripe offered up by the Chicago School of Economics and their limited intelligence adherents in government bureaucracy.

    The USA unleashed COVID-19 due to their bankruptcy and resounding incompetence to govern world affairs. This is not a proposed New World Order as much as it is a continuation of the New World Disorder imposed upon the USA March 10th 2008 when Bear Stearns was murdered so that Lehman Brothers Inc. would be next in line to fail as fourth largest investment bank in the entire world.

    Greed alone allowed Henry Paulson and Richard Fuld to get drunk on the souls of the poor, but Bear Stearns murder will most assuredly show them the poor house and eternal poverty for millennia. In brief, no proposal for the Great Reset can or will work as America is bankrupt with unsustainable debt-to-GDP by the numbers.

    The USA is currently at war with China for supremacy, but China has already slaughtered the USA via their command economy and Communist rule via Xi.

    RW

    • Replies: @Alfred
    , @Getaclue
    , @Anonymous
    , @anon
  2. The piece

    Great intuitive effort to connect the dots. Not a typical Jewish, poisoning the tea with few short-term interests pushing. No Trump, no Red and Blue, no elections, no US but the globe. “Direct” influencing is the key to a new realm in history of the planet indeed. Many corners are shadily if at all “enlightened”. No fault to be found as to the actor/author, how could he be, our cherished “thinkers” are as few and making up as they go, seconded by the crude second tier public domain politicians, the corporate mongers, them being even less prone to visionary skill. This “thing” can go wrong in all kinds of ways, but real it is, and some derivative globally altered reality is there to stay. Brusquely, genuinely.

    What I tend to see as the few certainties, the commoner/race/gender/class neutral surplus population will have the choice between mere subsistence under full central control(food, informtion, ambitions, partnering, systemic change, free-lance altercations). To them the age of the vego-beta male and the transgender-black suburbanite is here.

    Secondly as much a certainty, ultimately even if there will be backtracking efforts, disputes as to in-group (elites located territorialy at different spots and systemic positions, quarrels about means, methods and partitioning), there is going to be a global directive and uni-core directorate, intended to be invisible to the surplus population.

    The definition of AI? More then a single brain can pattern. More then human clusters can engender. The “new order” crystal ball is merely making sense of data in broader scopes. The ambitioned goals are themselves an expression of a supra-human insight so far. The end of the influential individual, the start of the individual as a meme to himself and as a clown and drama queen to the surplus population. The demise of most of the middle-class.

    The ultimate outcome, and left as a question mark, is this the approach to “end of history”, reducing the untenable global humanoids population numbers? I tend to think that is the case. The short-term approaches and the Wild West of corporate financial capitalism, relying on military power, have clearly reached the end of the life-cycle.

    My annotations are incomplete, but a mere “what comes to mind”. The thing with most “narratives” here at unz.com is not that it has become hard to lead the readers by the nose, to have the public run in circles, but the obsolescence of the paid middle class @media, since there are now better and more direct venue-ways to bombard and control the credulous surplus populations, from individuals to groups and races, classes, all the overlaps of Blue and Red, as needed. My prediction of “coat hanger” journalists is not far of. Say the article is in that sense, “not the regular fare” in making sense and having bigger scope and range. Thanks.

  3. Funny how “new normals” are rushing at us….9-11 was the new normal only 19 years ago, and 19 years later going on 20, a new “new normal” is upon us. The next “new normal” will only be a few years away, 9 at the most…Agenda 2030 and all that. By then, AI-enhanced RNA/DNA altered “new humanity” will be upon us, and anyone not in this new “new normal” will be outcast, shunned, shamed, and unemployed…and if retired will not be able to get their SS and MC.

    I don’t care, screw the Great Reset!

    • Agree: TheTrumanShow
    • Replies: @Sya Beerens
  4. “As it stands, there’s only one thing we do know: the establishment at the core of the Hegemon and the drooling orcs of Empire will only adopt a Great Reset if that helps to postpone a decline accelerated on a fateful morning 19 years ago.”

    What?

    I thought Covid 19 was a tool that the establishment is using to spark a Reset. And that Agenda 21 is part of a Reset.

    So why would the establishment object to a “decline”?

  5. Pft says:

    9/11 was just the first operation of the 21st century designed to accelerate the disintegration of society and economy to achieve Agenda 21 . It was actually a continuation of the 1975 TLC Project Democracy (sardonically named) that was kicked off by the Carter administration in 1977 and went into warp speed under Reagan/Bush. Its continued ever since but is picking up speed with the agreement of Agenda 21 in the 90’s and its update Agenda 2030 in 2015. 2020 is the start of the final phase which will accomplish all of the Sustainable Development Goals of Agenda 2030, which is basically means total control over every individual and all resources.

    Its pretty much been an Open Conspiracy. Those who refused to question 9/11 will double up on their blue pills to deny the Plandemic and expect a return to normal, dooming their descendants to a life of serfdom should they be lucky enough to avoid the culling.

    The new Normal will make some dystopian films seem like utopia. Watch some old movies and TV series to remind you of old normal. They wont be available much longer unless you have the DVD or VHS and a machines to play it. The tapes and discs age so don’t last forever. Books will last longer but those with digital collections will one day fund them disappeared

    • Agree: Johnny Walker Read
  6. Miro23 says:

    The beating heart of this matrix is – what else – the Strategic Intelligence Platform, encompassing, literally, everything: “sustainable development”, “global governance”, capital markets, climate change, biodiversity, human rights, gender parity, LGBTI, systemic racism, international trade and investment, the – wobbly – future of the travel and tourism industries, food, air pollution, digital identity, blockchain, 5G, robotics, artificial intelligence (AI).

    Since the US is a global has-been with most of its industry gone and living on debt – it’s probably useful for it to claim leadership of a “Strategic Intelligence Platform”. It can bury US problems internationally (same as it did with the dollar reserve) but in a more comprehensive way than simple Globalization (only economic). If the USA NWO claims international leadership of everything on all fronts, then they become the arbiters (in their opinion) of everything everywhere on the grounds of a higher morality.

    It actually looks more like the folie de grandeur of a old alcoholic than the foundation of a new religion – and not something to pay attention to – apart from the fact that he tends to get violent with anyone who disagrees.

  7. Regarding your 50 questions, the fact that German and Russian intelligent warned the FBI about an imminent Muslim terrorist attack is not compatible with the idea that there was a controlled demolition.

  8. Ah yes, the Beast reveals itself as a sensurround global hamster cage with a plethora of control mechanisms hardwired through emergent software memes in celebration of the planned future of total abstraction. Abstract reality. The hubris of the plutocratic, oligarchic and technocratic elites is of a Promethean orgasm of trans humanistic values systematically gorging itself on their perceived future of an enserfed humanity comprised of those who will compromise truth, honor, justice, beauty and love–all in the service of mammon.

    Not only is human nature to be subsumed to a mechanistic mindset gone ballistic in the visions of absolute domination, but the ongoing assault on the natural world will be a by-product of this Re-set. Stated simply, these schemers are playing God and have assembled the tool-kit, which in their minds, will allow for no compromise, no mistakes. These people are either spiritually vacuous or are imbued with an evil that totally negates a natural order which is cosmic and universal in scope. Ultimately their dreams and schemes will implode like the legendary Tower of Babel. Creation is not about to be undone by those who have convinced themselves that they can control everything.

    Mother Nature is not a mere lump of matter. She is a sentient being who is cosmically connected and connective. Consider the storms, the blizzards, the fires and the systematic destruction of our very atmospheres, to say nothing of oceanic life in all its magnificent manifestations. Mama is not in a good mood and when she has had all she can take…..

    • Agree: Kali, Rubicon
  9. R.C. says:

    “Strategic Intelligence Platform” should be renamed something like “s Strategic Intelligence Millennial Platform“ (SIMP)
    R.C.

    • Replies: @jsinton
  10. @Intelligent Dasein

    “… the fact that German and Russian intelligent (sic) warned the FBI about an imminent Muslim terrorist attack is not compatible with the idea that there was a controlled demolition.”

    How so? The US architects of a controlled demolition could have quite easily created fake “chatter” and fake “intelligence” about an imminent Muslim terrorist attack.

    • Agree: Biff, TimeTraveller
  11. Thomasina says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    Definitely a controlled demolition.

    There’s a great video to be found on Youtube titled “Former NIST Employee Speaks Out On World Trade Centre Towers Collapse Investigation”. It’s 31 minutes long, but he says the following at approximately 18 minutes in:

    “Look at the symmetry. These buildings come straight down, or almost straight down.

    Asymmetric damage does not lead to symmetric collapse. It’s very difficult to get something to collapse symmetrically because it is the Law of Physics that things tend towards chaos. Collapsing symmetrically represents order, very strict order.

    It is not the nature of physics to gravitate towards order for no reason. It will gravitate towards chaos. It is very difficult to get a building to collapse symmetrically.”

    • Agree: dogbumbreath, Sulu
    • Thanks: Majority of One
    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
  12. dimples says:

    I can’t make any sense out of this article. It reads like a lot of stock sentences jumbled together by a computer program.

    • Replies: @Whitewolf
    , @anon
  13. @PetrOldSack

    “Great intuitive effort to connect the dots. Not a typical Jewish, poisoning the tea with few short-term interests pushing. No Trump, no Red and Blue, no elections, no US but the globe. “Direct” influencing is the key to a new realm in history of the planet indeed. Many corners are shadily if at all “enlightened”. No fault to be found as to the actor/author, how could he be, our cherished “thinkers” are as few and making up as they go, seconded by the crude second tier public domain politicians, the corporate mongers, them being even less prone to visionary skill. This “thing” can go wrong in all kinds of ways, but real it is, and some derivative globally altered reality is there to stay. Brusquely, genuinely.”


    The Atlantic
    tells us that “Overall, bots … are responsible for 52 percent of web traffic” and I think we’re looking at Exhibit A.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/01/bots-bots-bots/515043/

  14. skrik says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    an imminent Muslim terrorist attack is not compatible with the idea that there was a controlled demolition

    Q: Why not? In fact, just as the 3 WTC towers were pre-loaded with explosives, so the alleged hijacker-piloted a/cs and resulting photogenic explosions were pre-planned ‘Hollywood special effects’ as critical components. How else to convince the insouciant punters, except with a well-scripted and executed ‘whiz-bang?’ Then, see the reports of putative Muslim hijackers doing dope and/or booze with lap-dancing bar-girls beforehand. You do yourself a disservice by denying *humongously obvious* controlled demolition. Tip: Try not to be silly.

    • Replies: @Robjil
    , @Badger Down
  15. EL PMIS says:

    To unravel the enigma i wonder if one does not need to go completely eurocentric.
    1848 unraveling the empires or at last a planting of the seeds.

    1948 the new_world order is established. With its counterpart in the east. Essentially a ynraveling of 1848 which was a crystallisation of the 30 year was and the peace of westphalia. Neither established empire being a nation while a very different nationbuiling started in europe compared to the pre-great war.

    2048, no doubt some kind of replacing the new_world order with a new world_order.
    One way or anothr to serve europes plutocrats. And with an eye on unraveling the previous 1948 situation. Soviets are gone, so now the disunited states of america has to go and be reduced to a new balkans.
    Perhaps sweeping away europe too this time. Arabobantustan unable to sustain a developed economy certainly is on the timeline for europe.

    Now. Regardless of whether the ghost of Herr Weishaupt is hanging around, the timeline is awfully useful for anyone like the anglozionist cabal of assorted late 1800s multimillionaires and their respective business empires cross inheritances into socalled NGOs. The names being quite well known like rockefeller, carnegie, rhodes etc.

    Then again maybe no one really knows what they are doing anymore and there is no plan at all, just many very confused very badly planned plans. And all that will ensue is chaos and destruction and no order afterwards worthy of the name. 150 years of pisspoor mismanagement tends to have such consequences.

    • Agree: PetrOldSack
  16. Alfred says:
    @Robert White

    When Bear Stearns was murdered outright March 10th 2008 around 11:00am New York City time …

    I think murdered is not the right word. It was a cold corpse long before that date.

    When the GAO report came out on the Quantitative Easing by the Federal Reserve, it uncovered a secret $16 trillion feeding tube from the Fed structured as revolving, low-cost loans to any bank (foreign or domestic) teetering on the edge. Amazingly, the audit showed the Fed started the loans in December 2007 – long before the public knew there was a dangerous financial crisis – and it lasted until at least July 2010.

    In addition to the publicly known support to Bear Stearns from the New York Fed, the GAO audit revealed that the Federal Reserve provided another $853 billion in secret loans to Bear Stearns; $851 billion from its Primary Dealer Credit Facility and $2 billion from its Term Securities Lending Facility. It wasn’t until May 31, 2008, when JPMorgan Chase closed its deal with Bear Stearns. However, the GAO reported that Bear Stearns “was consistently the largest PDCF borrower until June 2008.” The Fed shows that Bear Stearns continued to receive funds until June 23, 2008.

    Did the Fed Begin Secret Bailouts in 2007 Before Anyone Knew of the Pending Crisis? | Armstrong Economics

    • Thanks: dogbumbreath
  17. gotmituns says:

    9/11 – inside job – implosion.

    • Replies: @Alfred
    , @republic
    , @Sya Beerens
  18. This article pretty much sums it up as best as I can understand. I had often stated to people of similar mind to watch for the next major ‘move’ after 9/11, it will be a dandy because with possibly a few white knuckle moments, the Masters will have concluded that they can get away with ANYTHING, internet or no. Truth simply fails to get traction in the minds of the majority of ‘screen zombies’ and the majority is all they ever needed.

    Now where things might get really scary is if/when they decide to implement the great cull. From a dispassionate perspective, it is something they simply have to do. In 1950 the world population was about 2 billion. Now it is about 8 billion. If a population graph was drawn from say, 50,000 years ago it would be long and flat and then it would shoot up near vertically at the end.

    The problem now of course is that with technology and agricultural machinery of all sorts the system doesn’t even require the population of 1950. I recall one Master being on record as mentioning 500 million as being ideal. That is somewhat more than a cull.

    Some fools say that a war is imminent for that express purpose. Sorry wars (even nuclear, which would affect the Masters too), won’t result in the butcher’s bill required. Only a global pandemic could conceivably attain the goal and like a neutron bomb, leave the infrastructure intact.

    But this Covid is a hoax you say. Probably so, but what about this proverbial ‘second wave’ that is repeated like a Hare Krishna mantra everywhere. What if they released a REAL nasty virus (which we know they have somewhere) that has a proven vaccine for the 1% and then let the fun begin knowing full well that they would not be fingered for it because a pandemic is already on the move?

    If it doesn’t happen this fall then I may be wrong in my speculation. I always hope to be wrong when dealing with topics of unfathomable evil.

    Cheers-

    • Agree: PetrOldSack, Rubicon
    • Replies: @eD
    , @Carlos22
  19. Liza says:
    @Majority of One

    Mama is not in a good mood and when she has had all she can take…..

    Or, as some folks like to say, “God is mad”. But it’s all the same thing. Maybe the schemers should be forced to read The Fisherman’s Wife. However, they probably won’t have any little hovel to go back to.

  20. Robjil says:
    @skrik

    19 hijackers were “involved” in the 9 /11 false flag. Covid-19 has the number 19. This Covid thing comes 19 years after 9/11.

    Here is an abstract of a paper that points to a deep state game with the use of these 19 hijackers. I could not read the whole paper since one needs an invitation to read the works at this site.

    https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.1016/S0161-7230(06)23001-3/full/html

    Noting government refusal to disclose evidence called for by investigators, we find some pieces altered or fabricated and others confiscated or destroyed. Other revelations point to hijackers with national security overrides, protection in their alternate roles as drug traffickers, and deep political connections with government elites. We investigate patterns, reminiscent of historical intelligence involvement, revealing the presence of a covert intelligence operation disguised as an outside enemy attack.

    Here is another site that points to a deep state game with the use of “19 hijackers”.

    https://aldeilis.net/english/no-evidence-that-muslims-hijacked-planes-on-911/

    No proof that Muslim terrorists boarded the planes.

    No legal proof that Muslim terrorists boarded the 9/11 aircraft

    To sum up this section: No authenticated passenger lists of flights AA11, UA175, AA77 and UA93 have ever been produced by the airlines or the FBI.It is therefore not possible to confirm the names, let alone the identities, of the persons (including those of alleged hijackers) who checked in and boarded these flights.

    No filmed evidence found.

    4.No authenticated CCTV of the hijackers at the departure gates

    Apparently none of the three airports from where the 9/11 aircraft reportedly departed (Boston Logan, Newark International and Dulles Airport, Washington, D.C.) had surveillance cameras above the boarding gates. There exists neither eyewitness testimony nor a visual documentation of the boarding process.

    19 hijackers myth taken as ” fact” by the 9/11 Commission. Any contradictions of this myth were ignored by this Commission.

    •By ignoring the numerous and glaring contradictions regarding the identities of the alleged hijackers, the 9/11 Commission manifested its intent to maintain the official myth of 19 Muslim terrorists.

    •By refusing to allow interviews with personnel who were responsible for passengers boarding the four aircraft of 9/11, the airlines manifested their intent to conceal evidence about the circumstances of the aircraft boarding.

    • Thanks: TimeTraveller, Thomasina, Iris
    • Replies: @skrik
    , @CyrusTheGreat
  21. Svevlad says:

    Sooo…

    Torch the power plants, you say?

  22. When 9/11 occurred my immediate thoughts went back to an January 2001 when Lyndon LaRouche warned that if John Ashcroft were to become Attorney General that then one could look forward to a new Reichstag fire type situation occurring within the context of the fact that the world financial system was finished and that the financial oligarchy was prepared to throw over the chess board so to speak.

    LaRouche was right and because his understanding of history was correct as it is based upon a method of hypothesis that had already demonstrated the trajectories of economic collapse and attendant political operations long before, with an understanding of how to get out of the mess as demonstrated in history, particularly the Renaissance.

    Of note here is a recent article of interest, which helps tell why LaRouche is hated!

    https://larouchepac.com/20200908/antifa-back-future-1967-68-counterintelligence-primer-further-investigation-and-action

    • Thanks: Majority of One
  23. This is a very interesting, all encompassing article, well done indeed. For a simpler and perhaps more digestible and more narrowly focused look at the SARS-Cov2 issue specifically, this is a worthwhile video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQE7S6c-SCk&t=50s

  24. Alfred says:
    @gotmituns

    9/11 – inside job – implosion.

    Lots of micro nukes. Plenty of distractions from alleged “conspiracy theorists” in the pay of you know who.

    The nanothermite theory was a psyop from the beginning to hide the nuclear event at the towers.

    Startling: The Story of the 9/11 Breath-though that Solved it all and debunked the ‘truthers’ forever

    • Replies: @skrik
    , @anon
  25. annamaria says:
    @PetrOldSack

    We cannot ignore the prominent contribution of certain individuals like Cheney & ziocons of PNAC; they have made history (and some made a handsome gesheft) on other peoples bones and blood: https://www.hannenabintuherland.com/asia/the-cost-of-war-post-9-11-wars-refugee-crisis-caused-by-the-us-brown-university-david-vine/

    Since the George W. Bush administration launched a “global war on terror” … the U.S. military has waged war continuously for almost two decades. In that time, U.S. forces have fought in wars or participated in other combat operations in at least 24 countries. The destruction inflicted by warfare in these countries has been incalculable for civilians and combatants… Between 2010 and 2019, the total number of refugees and IDPs globally has nearly doubled from 41 million to 79.5 million….

    These babies-loving American X-tians and other Samantha Powers and Obamas, have arranged quite a spectacular mass slaughter of children of all ages to please the “deciders” (Masters of the Universe).
    None of the murderous idiots has been punished, yet Assange the truthteller is in a high-security prison Belmarsh, handled by the same murderous scum.

    • Agree: Alfred, Rubicon
  26. Kali says:
    @PetrOldSack

    My annotations are incomplete, but a mere “what comes to mind”.

    I would be interested to read them complete.
    I appreciate your comment.

    Thanks.

    With love,
    Kali.

  27. Kali says:
    @Majority of One

    Thesepeople are either spiritually vacuous or are imbued with an evil that totally negates a natural order which is cosmic and universal in scope. Ultimately their dreams and schemes will implode like the legendary Tower of Babel. Creation is not about to be undone by those who have convinced themselves that they can control everything.

    I couldn’t agree more with this.

    The intelligence of Existance Itself, the very Nature of Being is anathema to to those specs of dirt who would attempt to determine the will of God.

    The same sentience which is manifest in Man is repeated and applified throughout all of existance. How could it be any other way when everything we experience is fractal? Just as God may be experience at the centre of our very Being, so the same God is observed within the All of Everything.

    Thank you for your comment.

    With love,
    Kali.

    • Agree: Rubicon
    • Replies: @ploni almoni
  28. A great look into what is going on, and what is still to come. Yet the sleeping, brain dead, face diapered, mind controlled masses of the global corporation formerly known as he United States spend every waking hour saying “hooray for our guy”. Never once does it occur to the sheeple both are puppets, controlled by the international banksters and their minions.

    One of these morons has undeniable ties to the Russian mob, while the other has deep ties to the Chinese Communist Party. If that weren’t bad enough, they both swear undying loyalty to that little shit stain in the Middle East which seems to project more influence on world politics than the two formerly mentioned giants.

    I know it is no accident the printing of this article occurred on the anniversary date of the last, greatest mind fuck to hit America since Dec. 7th, 1941. I guess the infidels have been shown a lesson and the world is now safe for a one world government technocratic Corporatocracy.

    So here’s to 3/11/2020(my official date for the roll out of the CV hoax), the ushering in of a new slave system, and the idiocy and gullibility of the global citizenry.

    So enjoy your new bosses, as they are going to be far more tyrannical than your old.

    • Agree: Liza
  29. skrik says:
    @Robjil

    Thanks. Some of the most amazing things happened on 2001/9/11, one of which was the alleged crash of UA93 into a field, a claimed old ‘rehabilitated’ mine-site said to have been very soft ground, therefore ‘explaining’ why there was no visible trace of the Boeing passenger aircraft. Here are two photies, the 1st presented by the [US-justice] prosecution as a piece of official ‘evidence’ to the Moussaoui-trial, the 2nd image ‘self-explanatory:’
    [I see that the 1st image is not visible, kindly try this link:
    alleged ‘recovered’ flight recorder]
    Q: How soft was that ground, anyway? Does anyone ‘believe’ that part of the official 9/11 narrative? Haw. Only the ‘insouciant punters’ were ever hoodwinked by such offensive, lying rubbish, all faithfully echoed by the ‘lame-stream media.’ rgds

    • Thanks: Robjil, Alfred, Iris
    • Replies: @Badger Down
  30. @Intelligent Dasein

    Condoleeza Rice resisting at Congressional enquiry “N-o-o-o” and then admitting in a faint there was an “intelligence report” that said said “Ben Laden planning to use airplanes in terrorist attack” was play acting to confirm what they wanted people to believe. You will remember that you were taught to prepare in advance “red herrings” and leave deliberate confusions behind you to cover your trail.

  31. @Majority of One

    Here’s hoping you’re right, but I must say I have my doubts.

  32. Getaclue says:
    @Robert White

    China is the NWO “Model”, cheering them on is foolish based upon the actual facts at issue — there would be NO “modern” China without David Rockefeller — his fingerprints are everywhere as to the “opening” up and then offshoring of the US Economy over there — he and his NWO lackeys had been preparing for the One World Government Bankster NWO for decades (he was responsible for the design of the Twin Towers by the way that allowed the easy demolition when it was “time”, anything disastrous for the USA and you will always find the fingerprints of David Rockefeller and his paid lackeys all over it…Rockefellers destroyed the health centered Medical system in the USA intentionally and gave us the money centered/disease encouraging thing we have now and much other misery/destruction we now live in– though most are completely clueless: https://www.corbettreport.com/episode-286-rockefeller-medicine/

    All of this destruction of the USA you are cheering — including the CVirus hysteria leading to Medical Martial Law was planned out by Rockefeller and the Rockefeller Foundation (Gates Foundation is basically an arm of the same– same people all the plague of Fauci “Experts” are bought off by them if you do any research at all this becomes obvious very quickly, Neal Ferguson and his employer received many millions from Gates and his bs “Model” was used to implode the USA Economy thru Fauci/Birx paid Gates sycophants/”Experts”….).

    To put it in terms of the “USA is currently at war with China for Supremacy” is simplistic and misses what is really up — like the Towers in 911 the USA has been set up for implosion so the new “Order” can be forcibly installed — we are seeing this right now. It is not the people of the USA that are behind any of this — it is the installed traitors of the NWO that have pulled all of this off — Rockefeller/Gates/Soros/Bush/Obama and the Davos crowd etc. — yes the USA is being leveled just like the Towers on 911 and will be leveled but it was done by traitors and infiltrated enemies not by any brilliance of the vicious Chinese Communist mass murderers — if you like the idea of taking a van ride for expressing your anti-Government thoughts you’ll love the ChiCom “Model” being installed here now on all of us — Ron Unz would be one of the first for the van ride if he tried to run a site like this in China by the way — there is zero disputing this fact. David Rockefeller gave us the CFR, Trilateral Commission etc. and of course the WHO and: https://vigilantcitizen.com/latestnews/the-true-agenda-of-the-who-a-new-world-order-modeled-after-china/

    • Agree: Johnny Walker Read
  33. skrik says:
    @Alfred

    Lots of micro nukes

    Ma-a-ate! You cannot be serious – or you are, but at the same time you are totally ‘off the planet’ [= polite term for ‘barking mad.’]
    IF only one video THEN this:

    Assuming there might be such things as ‘micro nukes,’ such would produce radioactivity; your putative evidence please? Haw. Or was that suppressed as well, along with the bulk-wreckage [=crime-scene evidence] which was destroyed by being exported as scrap? Haw again.

    Nitty-gritty: There is no need to posit any ‘exotics,’ from nukes to DEW; standard explosives [both with OR without thermite/mate; only the ‘best’ tools = most suitable would have been deployed]; standard explosives could quite easily do the job, for example det-cord threaded into the floor-slab conduits can fully explain both the absence of floor in the rubble plus the billowing pyroclastic white dust-clouds [incidentally, explaining scorched vehicles]. And so it goes. A term for such reasoning = Occam’s razor.

  34. MLK says:

    We’re all familiar with “Hindsight is easy.” In some periods events conspire toward Scarlett O’Hara’s, “I won’t think about that today — I’ll think about that tomorrow.”

    We’ve been in such a fog for last 31 years since the Soviet Union and its Warsaw Pact collapsed. I distinctly remember in 1989-91 a general lack of interest in what history had just unfolded because it made too many important people, even subject matter experts, feel bad about themselves.

    I suspect this is true, though for slightly different reasons, whenever History is being made in the moment.

    Our embarrassingly short UniPolar Moment — Could you have made it a 25-year blink of an eye if you tried? — is one such Sad Story that drives everyone to talk about anything but the post-Cold War period and the immediate future. It’s so much less agitating to focus everyone on ‘1619’ and Trans-humanism.

    No one, including me, predicted CCP China’s rise to its present station at the time of Tiananmen Square in 1989. Yet here we are, with CCP China the hands down winner of the last three decades and we in the West, depending on where we sit, arguing with each other over whether it’s a good thing.

    I’m not in any manner or form discounting their trouble-making capabilities, but writ large the Davis gang is thoroughly discredited. The headliners are mere figureheads/Brands at this point (e.g. Soros; Bloomberg) or, as you note, paying to spout their wisdom.

    File the following under ‘Be careful what you wish for’ — In a digital world, relieving billionaires of their ownership will be the same flick of a switch easy as it will be to cut the power to whatever computer they purported to download their consciousness into trying to cheat death.

  35. anon[437] • Disclaimer says:
    @Priss Factor

    I never heard of Ryan Dawson but after watching this vid, it’s clear he’s a total shill. Actually, a limited hang-out shill. Some of his howlers from the video:

    1. “The US & Israeli governments at the minimum, had prior knowledge of the 911 attacks.” LOL!

    2. “Fire does in fact weaken steel beams to the point where a building might collapse…”

    He then fails to explain why no steel framed skyscrapers anywhere, have ever collapsed by fire.

    There’s probably more BS in there but I stopped watching.

    • Agree: ploni almoni
  36. We are living now in the century of lies.

  37. anon[312] • Disclaimer says:
    @Alfred

    The nanothermite theory was a psyop from the beginning to hide the nuclear event at the towers

    .

    Another folder from the ‘Directed Energy Beams from Killer Satellites’ dept…. Keep pissing in the well, lol.

  38. Getaclue says:
    @skrik

    David Rockefeller was behind the design for the Twin Towers — they were designed to do exactly what they did on 911, be imploded and collapse in a controlled demolition, and this was planned and executed of course to help usher in the NWO One World Government we are now seeing unfold upon us daily — Soros/BLM Riots etc., “Color Revolutions”, Medical Martial Law via CVirus — also all comes from the Rockefeller Foundation (Gates Foundation is an arm of it, Soros is also….) — all of it is part of the same Agenda as is the implosion and destruction of the USA and the USA and World Economy imposing David Rockefeller’s “Model” of Communist China on the world as the Banksters take over and the Peons do as they are told and take their “depopulation vaccines as Gates has put it several times now….

    — Exact details explosive wise etc. of how they did it (and I agree with your version) is not as important as knowing that they did do it and why — to crush the non-“Elite” and to inflict slavery and serfdom on us all as the “New Normal” as we live under a ChiCom type system with the Banksters at top of the imposed One Word Government and 24/7 Tech monitoring and quarantining etc. — unfortunately they are succeeding spectacularly, given they destroyed over many decades the education system, medical system, government and just about everything else (religion…) the pickings have been easy now that we are at the terminal end, very obvious now also as to what is up but they control the Mainslime Media completely so the fact many “know” what is up has done nothing to slow down their “Agenda” — it’s actually moving faster than it was laid out — not 2030 as it was laid out but right now…prayers….

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @JasonT
  39. republic says:
    @gotmituns

    The comments that Trump made just after 9/11 were quite interesting to say the least

  40. The latest from the woman who tried to warn us so many years ago about the coming Agenda 21 madness. Rosa Koire, an absolute warrior in the battle to awaken the masses to the Agenda 21/2030 madness. Covid 19 is just the latest means to this end.

    • Replies: @Ko
  41. China, Russia, and other Asian states are to begin joint military exercises in southern Russia in ten days.

    Will the prospect of fighting Russia and China simultaneously put the fear of God in feckless Amurika and spineless NATO?

    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/china-russia-kick-joint-military-exercises-caucuses-ties-deepen

  42. The only puzzling thing to me why they did not keep the plane engines from this disasters as a memento. High tension stainless steel engines must have remained practically intact.

    • Replies: @Alfred
    , @ploni almoni
    , @Lace
  43. @Kali

    You are very bad at making this stuff up. Just quote Deepak Chopra.

    • Replies: @Majority of One
    , @Kali
    , @tru3
  44. @skrik

    Thermite: AKA “Jewish Lightning.”

  45. Anonymous[251] • Disclaimer says:

    What?

  46. @Getaclue

    I agree fully with your assessment of my commentary, but from what I have witnessed live time there is no way in heck that the establishmentarians you mention had any clue that Bear Stearns was intentionally taken down so that Lehman Brothers Inc. would be the next domino to implode. This means that all the investors you mention had no idea that the 08 Great Financial Crisis-GFC was going to implode their collective investments whilst they all had both hands fully immersed in the cookie jar with their collective pants down at the same time.

    Bear was murdered for counterattack purposes, and so that Lehman Brothers Inc. would conveniently be placed into Chapter 11 bankruptcy exactly one week after the 911 September 11th date where the George W. Bush Torture Regime started their shakedown of the world via the Iraq War. Henry Paulson went running to Congress for immediate bailout of the Fractional Reserve Banking System on September 18th 2008 just as the Bush Torture Regime was leaving office for good.

    I can guarantee you that the Rockefeller’s best and brightest Macroeconomists had no clue whatsoever that the USA was taken down via Richard Fuld’s overt over-leveraged 44:1 betting whereby he used short-term operating cash for long term investment on McAllister Ranch in Bakersfield California. See the BBC documentary ‘The Lehman Crash’ on YouTube. Lehman Brothers own bankruptcy lawyer Harvey Miller publicly stated that Fuld made a rookie error that any first year business student would know not to make vis-a-vis using ‘short-term operating cash for long term investment’.

    Fuld was the longest serving investment banker in the history of Wall Street when he made that mistake that cost the USA hegemonic status via USD and the decoupling of markets.

    RW

    • Replies: @obwandiyag
  47. anon[327] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    Dawson questionable re attack at Pentagon.

    Says 757 (or a plane) hit.

    Few times heard is good re Palestine/Israel.

    • Replies: @ploni almoni
  48. jsinton says:
    @R.C.

    “Strategic Intelligence Platform” should be renamed something like “s Strategic Intelligence Millennial Platform“ (SIMP)

    Global Intelligence Millennial Platform (GIMP)
    Comprehensive Humanist Utopian Matrix Platform (CHUMP)
    Behavioral Egalitarian Assimilation Systemic Transformation (BEAST)

  49. Agent76 says:

    Feb 16, 2020 WORTH THE PRICE? Joe Biden and the Launch of the Iraq War

    Joe Biden and the Launch of the Iraq War is a documentary short reviewing the role of then-Senator Joe Biden (D-DE) in leading the United States into the most devastating foreign policy blunder of the last twenty years.

    Sep 11, 2011 General Wesley Clark: Wars Were Planned – Seven Countries In Five Years

    “This is a memo that describes how we’re going to take out seven countries in five years, starting with Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and, finishing off, Iran.” I said, “Is it classified?” He said, “Yes, sir.” I said, “Well, don’t show it to me.” And I saw him a year or so ago, and I said, “You remember that?” He said, “Sir, I didn’t show you that memo! I didn’t show it to you!”

  50. eD says:
    @Timur The Lame

    The current population of 7.8 billion requires the current levels of oil production to be fed and that is not going to happen forever. Making oil from coal crashes the economy and you get billions of poor people, and the coal will not last forever anyway, though the environmental damage will get us before the coal runs out.

    But I don’t think Operation Thanos is on the agenda. These people want their slaves.

    • Replies: @Tommy Thompson
  51. Anon[114] • Disclaimer says:
    @Getaclue

    David Rockefeller was behind the design for the Twin Towers — they were designed to do exactly what they did on 911, be imploded and collapse in a controlled demolition, and this was planned and executed of course

    Source please. Tell us the basis of that claim.

    • Replies: @Getaclue
  52. @anon

    Some true some false equals shill. Or the Devil.

  53. @ploni almoni

    “You will remember that you were taught to prepare in advance “red herrings” and leave deliberate confusions behind you to cover your trail.”

    Thus the endless current reporting that our military must be prepared to forcibly remove Trump from office when he refuses to accept the election results, alongside the stories that final results won’t be known until weeks later.

    Just imagine our surprise when Trump gives a “premature” victory speech after his 65-35 landslide, and the revelation sometime in December that Slow Joe ultimately squeaks out a win.

    There’s so many red herrings laying around these days, the joint smells like a Communist Long John Silver’s.

  54. @Zarathustra

    “We are living now in the century of lies.”

    Brought to you by the good folks whose dad “is a liar and the father of lies,” spoken by someone who should know.

  55. Interesting to think that the riots may actually be a hindrance to, rather than a tool of, the New Normal. Like Covid-19, there’s a possibility of the “opportunities” growing past the hegemony’s ability to use them to their own ends.

    Long-term plans based on models are wonderful things to have… until they run up against something that their contingencies haven’t accounted for. Then they can end up making you even more vulnerable than if you never had a plan at all…

    So maybe we should actually be hoping that things get much worse…

    • Replies: @Getaclue
  56. @eD

    The current population of 7.8 billion requires the current levels of oil production to be fed and that is not going to happen forever.

    Sorry, most people have little understanding of earth’s resources, they are near infinite into the near future. Oil is not running out, and with new technologies, its usage is on the slide, via edict from the Big Banksters, who wan the fourth industrial revolution, without the working and farming classes. Robots will do.

    Oil gives money to poor people and poor countries, sorry to inform you, that oil turned around the oil regions of the USA from poor backwaters that could not graze cattle to Cadillac driving cowboys.
    It did more for poor countries around the globe.

    The pollution issue has been contained, and CO2 is another false flag. We need CO2 for plant life and it has dwindled down over the past 600 million years to dangerously low levels.

    The elites have their agenda and we get their propagated excuses in order to carry out their implementation. Bill Gates and company will cull the world’s useless eaters, leaving Kissinger and his Zio buddies to eat filet and drink champagne. China will serve to be their exclusive producing zone and maybe the USA and Brazil their Agro base. Africa can still give up their mineral wealth, blood diamonds and other bloods.

    Yes COVID 2 is doing a fantastic job now, in shutting the world’s economy and social well being.
    Is it too late to become a Chosenite? Let us bow down to be saved by Israel, as our dumb f#8% money Preachers (reapers) from the backwaters of America tell us what we should wait for Rapture as they eat Caviar and Party in Tel A-babe to await their Savior, Netanfuyu.

    LOL

    • Agree: Getaclue, Rubicon
    • Replies: @Alfred
    , @Badger Down
  57. Scotist says:

    Speaking of 9/11, for anyone who’s interested:

    ‘Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth is thrilled to present “Justice Rising,” an online conference from Friday, September 11, to Sunday, September 13, on the continuing struggle for 9/11 justice and the destructive trajectory of the post-9/11 world.’ https://www.ae911truth.org/justicerising

    • Thanks: republic
  58. Sparkon says:
    @skrik

    …standard explosives could quite easily do the job, for example det-cord threaded into the floor-slab conduits can fully explain both the absence of floor in the rubble plus the billowing pyroclastic white dust-clouds [incidentally, explaining scorched vehicles]. And so it goes. A term for such reasoning = Occam’s razor.

    Do you think standard explosives or det-cord could have hurled multi-ton exterior box column sections from the Twin Towers several hundred feet, like those structural elements that smashed into the Winter Garden Atrium at a point ~600 feet from WTC 1?

    WTC 9/11

    U.S. Navy photo by Chief Photographer’s Mate Eric J. Tilford, 9/18/2001

    slagheap on Flickr

    Note the many blown out and broken windows in the World Financial Center buildings, as well as exterior “chex” sections, probably from WTC 1, that have impaled themselves in the AMX Building, or 3 WFC .

    Speaking of rubble, or debris heaps, I’ve seen several photographs showing a substantial debris heap for Building 7, but I’ve never seen a single photograph showing any debris heaps over the footprints of WTC 1 or WTC 2. In fact, the available imagery shows no such debris heaps at all, nor any visible big, heavy things like elevator cars and stairways, office equipment like desks and filing cabinets that would be expected components in the debris of a demolished or collapsed 110 story skyscraper.

    Occam’s Razor says the simplest explanation is likely the correct explanation, but only if it accounts for all the observed characteristics of the problem.

    • Thanks: Alfred
    • Replies: @ploni almoni
    , @skrik
  59. 911 was done by Israel and traitors in the ZUS government to give the ZUS the excuse to destroy the middle east for Israel and these same zionists are behind the covid-19 scam, hoax, lie and psyop, these zionists are destroyers of nations and humanity.

    • Agree: Alfred, FLgeezer, Robjil
  60. @Sparkon

    Has anyone got a hold of some of their thermite and tested it.?

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  61. @anon

    I never heard of Ryan Dawson but after watching this vid, it’s clear he’s a total shill

    That’s sad to hear because his Kenosha analysis was very good.

    Thanks for saving me the time anon-437!

  62. Alfred says:
    @skrik

    Assuming there might be such things as ‘micro nukes,’ such would produce radioactivity;

    Read the article in my link it will explain that in detail. Believe it or not, a lot of work has been done on these weapons since Hiroshima.

    Here is an example of a more recent nuclear explosion – in Beirut.

    Do you seriously think that this was caused by fertilizers – an oxidising agent without any reducing agent?

    • Replies: @A123
    , @jsinton
  63. Carlos22 says:
    @Timur The Lame

    “Now where things might get really scary is if/when they decide to implement the great cull“

    LOL it’s called “THE COVID VACCINE” coming to a town near you very shortly avoid like your life depends on it.

  64. JasonT says:
    @Getaclue

    All big buildings are designed to be taken down by controlled demolition into their footprint.

    • Replies: @Getaclue
  65. Alfred says:
    @Zarathustra

    High tension stainless steel engines must have remained practically intact.

    Because that is what a nuclear explosion does. Ditto for the steel structure of the these giant buildings.

  66. @Thomasina

    Asymmetric damage does not lead to symmetric collapse. It’s very difficult to get something to collapse symmetrically because it is the Law of Physics that things tend towards chaos. Collapsing symmetrically represents order, very strict order.

    To your excellent point, go to YouTube and search for, “controlled building demolition,” clips.

    YouTube will return dozens of videos showing building demolitions far, far less symmetrical than WTC 1, 2, or 7.

    Definitely controlled demo.

    • Agree: Agent76, Alfred
    • Thanks: Thomasina
    • Replies: @Agent76
  67. The numerically tiny but extremely mighty US Power Elite is turning a wheel that´s far greater than Nine Eleven was. That all most probably by an act of bio war.
    See:
    „An Existential Question and two very Different Answers“: https://wipokuli.wordpress.com/2020/04/22/an-existential-question-and-two-very-different-answers-eine-existentielle-frage-und-zwei-sehr-verschiedene-antworten/
    Best regards

    Andreas Schlüter
    Sociologist
    Berlin

  68. Agent76 says:

    Sep 11, 2020 COVID-911: From Homeland Security to Biosecurity

    But whereas the post-9/11 era introduced America to the concept of homeland security, the COVID-19 era is introducing the world to an altogether more abstract concept: biosecurity.

  69. Agent76 says:
    @The Wild Geese Howard

    This will is a good report. Sep 4, 2020 9/11 Suspects (Full Documentary | 2016)

    The Corbett Report released the 9/11 Suspects series in individual installments.

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
  70. @Zarathustra

    They found one jet airplane engine a few blocks away photogenically lying over a street sign on the sidewalk. It was at a construction site and under the street shed. But it did not match the alleged planes. Too small and it obviously came from a junkyard. A correct match to the imaginary planes would not have fit in a pickup truck. And maybe would have cost too much.

  71. @Robert White

    The basic disagreement between you and Getaclue is schmart vs. dumb.

    This is the central disagreement of our time: Are the Powers That Be planning all this like geniuses, or are they just rolling with the punches, improvising, faking it, covering over their incompetence with bribery and blackmail. Are they Lex Luthors or Till Eulenspiegels?

    I would say B. So would you. These people with all the money, they be dumb as proverbial bricks. Only somebody who believes in that Chicago School of Economics crap about people supposedly “earning” money would swallow that they are smart. How do you “earn” billions of dollars? How many bricks must you lay? How many patients take care of? Answer: you can’t “earn” billions of dollars. You can “make” them. You can steal them. You can luck into them. But you can’t earn them.

    Nope. You are the right one. The ruling class are dummesel heebahabah hoofties, and they do not know what they are doing.

    • Agree: Robert White
    • Replies: @Getaclue
    , @Majority of One
  72. Anonymous[193] • Disclaimer says:
    @Robert White

    The NWO won’t come in marching behind demoniacal freaks like Zuckerberg, Brin, Gates, or Schwab, or under banners proclaiming totalitarian servitude and chemical behavioral modification for 99% of mankind, but by one transnational compliance regime sneaking in the back door after the other. If WEF/Gates/MSM et al can get worldwide vaccination against a trivial coronavirus, compel people to wear useless masks and snitch on their neighbors for gift cards on Amazon (wait for it), they can regulate everything. But, I don’t think Schwab and the rest have that limited goal in mind, given the Kalergi Prize to wipe out the white race through miscegenation, or in other words, punish those who are the elitists’ chief obstacle.

    I would anticipate the reset will involve another false flag attack like CV19 or 911 cascaded on top of a crash of the markets early next year with the latter objective of expropriating the $30 trillion in public and private retirement assets under the guise of protecting them, replacing those assets with “freedom bonds” whose value goes to zero in the holders’ lifetime, and which then transfers ownership of corporate America to the state. The overall effect of that theft of wealth and wipe-out level of thrift-punishing inflation will be cutting the standard of living of America’s middle class by half or more. Based on experiments done in the aftermath of the financial meltdown, millions of foreclosed homes may be filled with the rioting inner-city blacks in what will amount to genocide of mainly white suburban children forced to attend schools that make the Island of Dr Moreau seem like hide-and-seek of yesterday.

    With freaks like today’s elites who exterminate people in Africa and India by the hundreds of thousands in chemical sterilization posing as inoculation, or, like Hillary, joke about incinerating hundreds of thousands from the air and displacement of tens of millions more innocent people in the Mideast, there is no limit to the horrors that, as the Russian prophet foretold, they won’t inflict on their chief enemy, white America. If there’s any consolation, those who do the elites’ bidding in DC will end up, no doubt, like the cop thinking he’s chowing down with pockets full of cash in that restaurant scene in The Godfather, which is pretty much what happened in Russia.

    • Agree: Getaclue
    • Replies: @Robert White
  73. Getaclue says:
    @Anon

    ­”The original idea for a world trade center in New York is generally credited to David Rockefeller, one of industrialist John D. Rockefeller’s many grandsons. In fact, the idea was proposed soon after World War II, a decade before Rockefeller ever got involved, but he was the one who actually got the ball rolling.” https://science.howstuffworks.com/engineering/structural/wtc.htm There are tons of “sources” as to David Rockefeller being behind it and overseeing all of it…just do a search on Duckduck or whatever easy to find multiple sources and various commentaries….

    This video is quite good on Rockefeller and his posing with his watch at 911 etc.:

    The Occult “Elite” get some kind of power by telegraphing what they are going to do and letting you know who they are — that’s a different topic but it is definitely a “thing” — like Gates using a Satanist witch as an ad spokesman this last Good Friday and his wife wearing the upside down Crucifix in an interview etc. This site covers this “symbol” thing of the “Elite” well: https://vigilantcitizen.com/latestnews/microsoft-releases-and-deletes-an-ad-with-elite-occultist-marina-abramovic/

    “Symbols Rule The World Not Words Nor Laws”: https://vigilantcitizen.com/

    • Agree: Sya Beerens
  74. Getaclue says:
    @JasonT

    Actually, no — and not all are taken down that way either– there are other methods: https://theconstructor.org/structures/demolition-methods-process-buildings-structures/13941/

    The Towers design was, however, perfect for Controlled Demolition and that’s how it fell: https://thefreethoughtproject.com/physics-report-911-controlled-demolition/

  75. @ploni almoni

    Perhaps you should invest a bit of time in Reading Rupert Sheldrake and his synthesization of the discoveries made in quantum physics.

    • Agree: Kali
  76. A123 says:
    @Alfred

    Here is an example of a more recent nuclear explosion – in Beirut.

    Do you seriously think that this was caused by fertilizers – an oxidising agent without any reducing agent?

    This picture shows the much less damaged reverse side of the building.
    .

    .
    The NASRALLAH-SHIMA blast is obviously too small to be nuke.

    The bulk of the working material was NH4-NO3, which is scientifically proven to be explosive without additional chemicals such as fuel oil. However, there would be no surprise funding out that there were some true high explosives in Iranian al’Hezbollah Munitions Depot #12 that supplemented the Nasrallah-shima detonation.

    PEACE 😇

    • Troll: Majority of One
  77. Ko says:
    @Johnny Walker Read

    yeah, this is one of the best vids of its kind. Spiro is spot on the ball.

  78. @skrik

    When it comes to the import of the 911 Inside-Job, arguing over the “how” is akin to how many angels can dance on a pin. The critical key is the “WHO”.

    • Agree: nokangaroos, Kali
    • Replies: @skrik
  79. Getaclue says:
    @obwandiyag

    This is exactly how the CIA with multi-billion dollar budgets yearly plays it — we’re just “stupid” all these “mistakes” leading to destruction, we totally “missed” 911 “terrorists” planning it (even though they were reported to the FBI and flagged endlessly at the CIA….)…but all these “mistakes” they all go in one direction — the NWO Agenda direction, funny that– just “boobs” huh?….

    It’s also just one big Coincidence that all these “Experts” like Fauci, Birx and Neal Ferguson etc. are all financed by the Gates Foundation and/or Rockefeller Foundation — to believe this “just happens” and is the result of “stupid” rich people — you have to be a “Coincidence Theorist” — a “New Pearl Harbor” was stated as needed by the Neocons and soon thereafter we got 911…CVirus was planned and gamed by both Rockefeller Foundation and Gates Foundation (Gates last year, amazing coincidence…) and in it rolled out the Medical Martial Law agenda that “coincidentally” gives the “ruling class” Davos “Elites” exactly what they want in authoritarian control, economic “reset”, and destruction of civil liberties (destruction of Populist Movements in France and worldwide– funny how that “just happened”….)….

    I could go on and on but having read your other comments I won’t bother….– no the “ruling class” aren’t “dumb” but they rely on the Peons they want to “depopulate” by vaccine and enslave to, in the majority, be so….

    • Replies: @obwandiyag
  80. @omegabooks

    Covid19 “Novel Corona”🤴 Operation Crimson Contagion 2019

    Global Pandemic Virus is the new “Israelic Terrorists”

  81. Kali says:
    @ploni almoni

    Maybe if I’d ever read any Deepak Chopra I would. But he’s never appealed to me.

    But here’s a thought on a different note, maybe if you spent a little more time focusing on yourself rather than trolling others, your comments might be of a little more value.

  82. @A123

    This picture’s trying too hard…..it’s got pseudo biblical fantasies all over it

    Very tacky as usual

    • Replies: @A123
  83. skrik says:
    @Sparkon

    hurled multi-ton exterior box column sections

    No. The perimeter-wall units were relatively light, 3 storeys high and 3 columns wide, joined by ‘spandrels,’ look it up. [As for “chex” kindly drop it, IMHO that’s just silly.] I suggest that you could think about it; there was no space ‘within’ the towers for the perimeter-wall units, they had to be ejected outwards – a ‘natural’ result of having to be explosively disassembled from within. The core columns were [most likely, from my analysis] blown over, one shaped charge at the top, the other at the bottom = core-column units were flipped horizontal. [There is photo-evidence, showing torn welds and depressed walls on recovered core columns.] Further, to initiate the process, each tower was severed, possibly using some thermite/mate-variant, creating 45° cuts across one [the alleged plane-impact] level, allowing the upper section to go into free-fall, enormously reducing the horizontal disassembly process force-requirement. We can get the idea from the NIST so-called simulations of the WTC 7 collapse [IMHO a by-product of the actual demolition FEA modelling], which showed the development of an internal spiral of collapsing columns, centred on col 80/81.

    heavy things like elevator cars and stairways, office equipment like desks and filing cabinets

    were blown to bits; most human remains recovered were little more that splintered bone and flesh-fragments.

    I suspect you are aiming at DEW; kindly allow me to point out that according to what may be the ‘strictest’ of natural laws [i.e. conservation etc.], matter may neither be created nor destroyed; IMHO on the highest ‘scientific’ authority, every piece of the WTCs landed on the ground somewhere. only to be unceremoniously carted off for ‘recycling;’ *none* was DEW’d to some other dimension. rgds

    • Replies: @Sparkon
    , @Peripatetic Itch
  84. Lace says:
    @Zarathustra

    They are seen in the Daudet film–unless someone thinks the Daudets were ‘in on it’.

    The Towers were on fire only where the planes hit. I saw the North Tower collapse from my back window, and I could see it gradually collapsing to the left side–but still not more than that from what I could tell. Not close enough to see jumping bodies, just heard about them on the radio. ”

    When the North Tower finally collapsed, all of it fell apart–you could see the dismembered spire–but the now-destroyed material of the part above the plane hit enveloped all the much larger lower remaining part of the building remained intact for a few seconds, and so had not, if ever, been ‘controlled-demolished’ during the fall of the top of the Tower–in short, there was no explosion of the larger lower part of the North Tower. I think this is the same with the South Tower but I didn’t see it directly, and just looked at video that didn’t show it well (the only famous one is the shot of the 2nd plane flying into the Tower, although the 1st plane is shown too.)

    I don’t see why the article is not both shockingly necessary and provident if the WTC building were Al Qaida, after all the Aug. 6 memo (which you can easily read) was something that was discussed at the top, not just a ‘red herring’, cf., Lawrence Wright’s The Looming Tower--so there was no responsibility taken based on that memo–in not taking it, they indisputably allowed it to happen, as it was a near blueprint of what was to happen. Wasn’t it George Tenet who went to Crawford and talked to Bush and Bush said something like ‘Fine. You’ve done your job?’ (It’s been about 15 years since I read it.)

    So it would still seem to lead to all the other unfolding events, that it was Al Qaida and Bush and Condi ignoring the intelligence still proves they’re culpable–none of the commenters’ evidence is, however, convincing that it was a ‘controlled demolition’. All sorts of ‘commoners’ would have had to be informed that all this was happening, which is probably easier managed with plans for power-grab from Covid-19.

    And it was a plane that went into the Pentagon. My friend’s husband was on it and his wedding ring found. I just mentioned that because there used to be talks of missiles into the Pentagon. They both ironically worked at the Pentagon, and if he’d been in his usual office there and not on the plane, he would be alive. And that part was reparable, and my friend, his wife, had to do her last time as a Pentagon employee in the very part of the building her husband was killed. Also, Rumsfeld was in the building.

    • Troll: Peripatetic Itch
  85. @Priss Factor

    Prissy, have you ever seen Charlie Varrick? What did you think?

    • Replies: @Priss Factor
  86. From 9/11 to this

    • Replies: @Sya Beerens
    , @Whitewolf
  87. jsinton says:
    @Alfred

    A mountain load of ammonium nitrate can absolutely blow up in such an explosion. See Texas City disaster in Wikipedia. The videos on Youtube of the Beirut disaster clearly shows “why” it blew up. The only questions in my mind is “how” it got there, was it “fireworks” or “ammo” next door, and “who” lit the match.

    • Replies: @Majority of One
    , @Alfred
  88. @skrik

    It wasn’t micronukes, it was clearly a few matter/anti-matter devices, cancelling out the radiation, but hot enough to convert the various metallicoxided in the buildings into thermite. The Deep State, populated by lizard aliens, didn’t think it wise to blame the Klingons, as that would clue the public into alien interference in Earth politics, so they picked Muslims to be the patsies.

    • Replies: @skrik
    , @Badger Down
  89. gotmituns says:

    Building #7 ????????????????

  90. @Lace

    This poster is either a total case of mind-management syndrome or a disinformation specialist who does not provide sufficient plausibly deniable masking.

    • Replies: @Lace
  91. The people who went to global war on civilians after some TV show are the people who are fighting the global corona virus Pandemic 😷

    Please enlighten us again…..

    What’s the difference between Bush and Trump?

    Drug of choice? Fake tan products?

  92. Mefobills says:

    The Great Reset would point to losers, in terms of nations, aggregating all the ones that benefit from production and processing of energy and agriculture, from Russia, China and Canada to Brazil, Indonesia and large swathes of Africa.

    Davos man and globo homo engages in speculative finance capital.

    Davos man and globo homo take usury, engage in rents, and siphon unearned income toward themselves.

    It is pretty clear who the losers will be. It will be the west, as all western economic surplus generated by western economies are harvested by the parasite class.

    In meantime, China and Russia – and those who join their system, will enjoy industrial capitalism, where state credit is channeled toward production; where state credit improves labor and the commons.

    Improved production and efficiencies will raise the standard of livings for their populations, while Davos parasites continue to emit propaganda and maintain western clown world. Oligarchy and corporatism will only increase.

    The Green New Deal is more folly by the Davos Crowd, as we actually need nuclear power plants to increase power outputs, to then help power the economy. For example, building new highly insulated homes (debt free) can be done on an industrial scale (instead of war), but that takes energy, labor, and creativity.

    Every problem has a solution, and solutions always seem to come back to money power issue.

    Privateers have aggrandized the money power to themselves, and now think they are god – but instead they are parasites. The parasites would rather make war than let go of their ill-gotten vaunted status.

  93. Whitewolf says:
    @dimples

    I can’t make any sense out of this article. It reads like a lot of stock sentences jumbled together by a computer program.

    You’re not alone.

  94. @Lace

    Too many wedding rings are being found and not enough black boxes. Note to Sholem Aleichem: your Bryan C. Jack and Barbara Rachko sob story is too schmalzy for UNZ even if it is 9/11. Try selling it to the New York Times. “We were together for 15 ½ years before we finally got married. Bryan for years had said we ought to get married, but I was very non-traditional. We finally did on June 16, 2001. We were married a grand total of 87 days. Bryan was wearing his ring when he was killed. I was contacted by the Army and told that certain items had been recovered from the crash site. If there was one thing I hoped they would recover, it was that ring. It was a one in a million chance.” —

    • Replies: @Lace
  95. They brought us to the knowledge there could be consequences to US for our policies towards them! We like to say we won the cold war without a shot being fired; 9-11 was fallout of that cold war where we propped up regimes for our cold war benefits military bases and below market oil and cold war anti soviet alliances. We were not minding our own business that glorious sept morning. Contrary to our self serving narrative we were not attacked for not being Muslims by religious fanatics but for our unjust meddling in their homelands including for our vetoing with a simple stroke of the pen every UN resolution which would have brought a modicum of justice to the Palestinians. They launched the new century ; the new millennium? of the people, bottom up not top down,-nation states with their militaries. They upset the balance of power; these backward desert natives. they saw themselves as freedom fighters who did not start this war; we did with our unjust policies and meddling in their homeland. osama and the saudi regimes were enemies contrary to the self serving narrative of the 9-11 families and media. [ Never forget how much we hate those people]!The US showed its true colors after that ; everything we professed to believe in went out the window; torture was now gleefully talked about, as a good, pre emotive wars, religious discrimination, indefinite detention without trial, assassination with civilian casualty; inherent human rights went out the window; amerikans showed that their narrative of exceptionalism based on ethics was a sham . That it was some backward gang of natives and not some superpower and their military who gave us a taste of our own medicnce , is what outraged the amerikans; how dare they; did not God tell these people that when we kill men women and children we’re good but when anyone kills US they’re bad!We spend the whole 20th century dropping bombs on men women and children with impunity and that this band of brothers gave us some punity, is well a defining event for the amerikans psyches!

  96. Whitewolf says:
    @Priss Factor

    She makes Serena look feminine in comparison.

  97. Sparkon says:
    @skrik

    I suspect you are aiming at DEW;

    You suspect wrong. I reject the DEW theories of Dr. Judy Wood, and others, and have many many comments about that here at UR. Just ask Desert Fox.

    No. The perimeter-wall units were relatively light, 3 storeys high and 3 columns wide, joined by ‘spandrels,’ look it up.

    Relatively light compared to what? I cannot find any listed weights for the external box column “chex” sections, which in any event varied from heavier near the bottom to much lighter toward the top.

    The spandrel plates, typically 52 inches (1.3 m) deep, were welded to the exterior columns to create the modular pieces off-site at the fabrication shop. Each of the modular pieces was 10 feet (3.0 m) wide and 36 feet (10.9 m) tall…

    — Wikipedia

    In my world, 36′ x 10′ assemblies of 30-some steel plates would probably weigh at least a ton if not several several tons, depending on the thickness of the steel plate.

    Of course, you are free to produce any documentation that specifies the weight of those “chex” sections, but until then, I’ll stick with my assertion that they were multi-ton sections.

    • Agree: Peripatetic Itch
    • Replies: @Sparkon
    , @skrik
  98. Lace says:
    @PetrOldSack

    What I tend to see as the few certainties, the commoner/race/gender/class neutral surplus population will have the choice between mere subsistence under full central control(food, informtion, ambitions, partnering, systemic change, free-lance altercations). To them the age of the vego-beta male and the transgender-black suburbanite is here

    .

    Between mere subsistence and what? Not that I ever think of ‘vego-beta male’ and ‘transgender-black suburbanite’ as such (they think it for you against your will, but you’ve written such an interesting comment, but barely proofread, that I’d just like to know what you’re talking about a bit more precisely.

    The “new order” crystal ball is merely making sense of data in broader scopes. The ambitioned goals are themselves an expression of a supra-human insight so far. The end of the influential individual, the start of the individual as a meme to himself and as a clown and drama queen to the surplus population. The demise of most of the middle-class.

    This sounds fairly brilliant, or at least you can play with it, esp. ‘individual as a meme to himself and as a clown and drama queen to the surplus population’ is already in effect, and if there is one who deservedly escapes it, it will usually be fairly intimate with few players. Most artists I know in New York do not see Covid-19 as anything but this giggly new way of virtual sharing, when it is merely numbing beyond imagining. Only things done within this corpsical context in the modernist sense of the content being conjoined to the form, can actually work–I have seen only one to use it effectively, although there will be a few more who’ve held out to at least a memory of content and don’t live on iPhones–the rest is ‘hobbies’ suggested by the NYT and its idiocies as we see the very fast but impossible-to-miss speed of the decomposition. Most people I know think a ‘return to normal’ really will resemble early-March normal more than it’s exactly like what we have now. The early politeness mostly went away and people are now pissed at each other for no reason other than Covid. The movements toward ‘re-opening’ have been just as discordant as I thought they would be.

    • Replies: @PetrOldSack
  99. A123 says:
    @Sya Beerens

    The picture is Australian, so I’m not sure what you are getting at.

    Here is the source article.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-06/satellite-images-reveal-extent-of-damage-from-beirut-blast/12529112?nw=0

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Sya Beerens
  100. Lace says:
    @ploni almoni

    It was not a sob story, and I only mentioned it because of the fact of the plane that people called a missile. Aren’t you clever as well as totally boorish, though? I didn’t know it was a well-known story. She’s a successful painter in pastels here now.

    The thing I got wrong in the post (and can’t edit it here) was that the part of the North Tower above the plane’s entry first fell apart, after it buckled, and went around the large part of the still-intact much-larger lower part, so if there were a controlled demolition, you are saying that they timed it so that that part could be blown up separately from the top part. I had said of the North Tower that ‘it all fell apart’, which it did, but the top part first, revealing the large part underneath as intact at least some seconds longer than the collapsed top.

    Maybe you think it was so well-oiled that the explosives in the lower part of the North Tower were set off just at the right moment when it “needed to look like there was the pancaking.

    Thanks for the chance to clear that up. I don’t know how many storeys were in the top part, but they were heavy enough. I realize I shouldn’t have put that story in, although anyone knows that doing so for any purpose other than more facts is tacky, and I didn’t do that. You just assumed I did, and you didn’t know.

    • Replies: @ploni almoni
  101. Lace says:
    @Majority of One

    This turns out to often be little better than WaPo comments sections, although I guess you can cuss here. Your sentence is insulting yet thoroughly unintelligible. What language is it? White Ebonics? That’s got to be the worst thought I’ve ever had regarding English.

    • Replies: @Majority of One
  102. Sparkon says:
    @Sparkon

    … 36′ x 10′ assemblies of 30-some steel plates

    That should read 15 steel plates, not 30.

  103. @Lace

    You are getting your scripts confused. But don’t worry; you’ll do fine, many beginners start out unsure of what they are supposed to be talking about. It took Vot Tak a long time to find his “Zionazi” shtick and Kali will read up on Deepak Chopra and Madame Blavatsky and get its act together. A123 still goes back and forth, but he is still discovering himself.

    • Thanks: Lace
  104. anon[320] • Disclaimer says:
    @Robert White

    FWIW, Bear didn’t just disappear. Shareholders eventually got $10/share from JP Morgan. I don’t know why I find the details important, other than the fact that it was messier than simplistic narratives would have it. The Fed is the acting hedge fund of last resort. They are selling exit visas from hell, and drive a hard bargain. Don’t forget that the Federal Government collects about 20% of GDP. So it isn’t just the top 1%. Anyone working for or doing business with the Federal Government has an incentive to keep things going. Back when these things ended with a general liquidation things ended badly for about everybody. But to your general point, maybe details perhaps don’t matter. Except I see a more systemic trend toward evil. Shareholders were paid off to expedite an orderly liquidation.

    “On March 24, 2008, a class action was filed on behalf of shareholders, challenging the terms of JPMorgan’s recently announced acquisition of Bear Stearns.[29] That same day, a new agreement was reached that raised JPMorgan Chase’s offer to $10 a share, up from the initial $2 offer, which meant an offer of $1.2 billion.[30] The revised deal was aimed to quiet upset investors and was necessitated by what was characterized as loophole in a guaranty that was open ended, despite the fact that the deal required shareholder approval.[31] While it was not clear if JPMorgan’s lawyers, Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz, were to blame for the mistake in the hastily written contract, JPMorgan’s CEO, Jamie Dimon, was described as being “apoplectic” about the mistake.[32] The Bear Stearns bailout was seen as an extreme-case scenario, and continues to raise significant questions about Fed intervention. On April 8, 2008, Paul A. Volcker stated that the Fed has taken ‘actions that extend to the very edge of its lawful and implied powers.’ See his remarks at a Luncheon of the Economic Club of New York.[33] On May 29, Bear Stearns shareholders approved the sale to JPMorgan Chase at the $10-per-share price.[34]”

  105. @skrik

    As Sparkon justifiably says:

    Occam’s Razor says the simplest explanation is likely the correct explanation, but only if it accounts for all the observed characteristics of the problem.

    Attempting to apply Occam’s Razor without agreeing on the basic phenomenological characteristics of the problem is like a hit-man trying a drive-by shooting of his intended victim in the dark and from the back in a strange section of town. You need to acknowledge that the high temperature of the debris pile under the twin towers and lasting for months is a feature needing to be explained.

    The demolition of WTC1 and WTC2, with hardly any debris pile in the footprint, differed in essential characteristics from that of WTC7. The debris pile under WTC7 was big enough to account for the structural steel in the structure, suggesting that the building came down pretty much in its own footprint. It could perhaps be seen as similar to a conventional controlled demolition. We had quite a good view of it coming down and there was no sign of steel girders being flung hundreds of feet.

    Look carefully at any conventional controlled demolition such as this for the Seattle Kingdome. You will see small bits flung a substantial distance, but the the only big piece tossed up in the air is on fire and probably nothing more than a light combustible. Also you see clouds of dust resulting from the collapse but they appear later that they did with WTC1/2 and do not shoot up in the WTC1/2 fountain pattern, which is generally thought characteristic only of nukes and volcanoes.

    We can get the idea from the NIST so-called simulations of the WTC 7 collapse

    Unfortunately NIST did not actually explain the collapse. Their mechanism, which you endorse, would produce a quite asymmetrical collapse, contrary to observation. The University of Alaska has done an exhaustive engineering-physics study showing that the NIST analysis can explain nothing.
    http://ine.uaf.edu/wtc7

    That is not to say conventional explosives such as thermites were not used in the twin towers. Observers reported many large explosions, none of them breaching the building’s walls, in the minute or two before each tower came down. It may well be that these were required to make a continuous chimney from top to bottom out of elevator shafts that individually went only part way. However, no one has shown that thermites can generate the energies required for such an explosive demolition. I’m sure you will understand that the energy required to pulverize a building’s concrete is orders of magnitude greater than that required to break it up into softball-sized chunks.

    I have seen several plausible protocols for a nuclear demolition. Some of them suggest mini-nukes, while one suggests a supercritical thorium/water reactor. All of them put it in the bottom of the sub-basement elevator shaft and use the granite sides of that shaft to funnel the blast directly up into the structure of the building. I think that scenario, which is posited by competent nuclear engineers, addresses your critique about the required depth of an underground nuclear explosion. It also explains the odd glassified potholes in the granite under the twin towers to be as a result of melting and re-solidification. I would thus offer that as one of the characteristics your nano-thermite theory needs to, but cannot, explain, except as some unrelated geologic fossil, which dulls the razor of Mr. Occam.

    • Agree: Alfred
    • Thanks: Majority of One
    • Replies: @skrik
    , @Iris
  106. @Anonymous

    SARS-2-nCoV-19 is yet another Controlled Demolition not unlike 911 in so far as it is a Gain-of-Function deadly Pandemic Pathogen being utilized for the WEF Great Reset to blockchain technology for their Fractional Reserve MMT coming in January.

    The USA Federal Reserve is hyperinflating assets as the corporatists cash out on stocks and options.
    $9 trillion has been pumped into the Primary Dealer Credit Facilities of the behemoth serial felon marquee Wall Street investment banks and their Chair lackey Powell has become Trump’s monkey financier for the great pump that is manifesting now, and dump that January will usher in with WEF.

    Printing one’s path to Weimar Republic always ends badly no matter what the bobble-heads and meat puppets prognosticate.

    Trump is not a hero, and this is not mythology. Printing to infinity is their only recourse post-lehman implosion. Bear was the progenitor outbreak that toppled Lehman Bros. Inc.

    Trump’s admin funded the NIH bioweapon SARS-2-nCoV-19 for purposes of nanotechnological tracking of all throughout the world. Blockchain MMT, and Green Finance Revolution allows for the masses to be co-opted for the children.

    Gates is Lex Luther and his plans are indeed diabolical at best.

    RW

  107. Loup-Bouc says:
    @PetrOldSack

    Much word-salad blather. Zero evidence, logic, sane sense. A ton of language-slop. E.g., this:

    What I tend to see as the few certainties, the commoner/race/gender/class neutral surplus population will have the choice between mere subsistence under full central control(food, informtion, ambitions, partnering, systemic change, free-lance altercations).

    Disregard the general spray of gobbledgook. Just note:

    …population will have the choice between mere subsistence under full central control(food, informtion, ambitions, partnering, systemic change, free-lance altercations).

    [My emphasis of the term “between” (Loup-Bouc).] Between what and what?

    And

    My annotations are incomplete….

    Your annotations are absent. Their number is zero.

    • Replies: @m___
  108. anon[206] • Disclaimer says:
    @dimples

    You’ll only understand it if you’re plugged into the matrix. They’re using special coded language to communicate out in the open but totally imperceptible to the enemy. Let me assure you, the enemy is completely worried about how much opposition there is to them and how much power will be used to oppose them when the time comes.

  109. Getaclue says:
    @Sollipsist

    Chaos is their game plan 100% — the Financing for the Riots comes right from Soros and his buddies thru various NGOs and back doors — so I can’t agree with your analysis here — it’s all part of the CVirus, 911 package — just another part of the controlled demolition they are using against the Peons who, for the most part, are clueless many willfully so as we see here even at UNZ unfortunately….

  110. @Robjil

    Great Analogy and thoughts about 19. Just to add to your collection of things on 19, if you reverse 911 you will get 119! This really needs to be looked into further. We might get closer to something worthy. Thanks for your thoughts which never crossed my mind before.

    • Thanks: Robjil
  111. Mailer was right about the Iraq War.

    • Replies: @PetrOldSack
  112. Sparkon says:
    @ploni almoni

    As far as I know, we’re still waiting for that definitive demonstration of the allegedly awesome destructive power of thermite, where somebody uses that incendiary to really blow something to smithereens.

    If thermite really had the explosive power some people think it does, somebody by now would have blown something up with it in spectacular fashion, and we’d all be familiar with the video.

    Thermite burns hot with a lot of smoke and sparks, and can cut through steel, but nothing I’ve seen even qualifies it as an explosive.

  113. Alfred says:
    @skrik

    Here is a picture showing how the bedrock under the two larger 9/11 buildings was melted. This could only have been caused by a nuclear blast. I challenge anyone to show a similar photo under any office or factory or forest fire. The sad fact is that Israel has a large number of these weapons and that all of Europe is being blackmailed into silence. They have similar bombs dotted around at strategic locations.

    The Secret History of 9/11

    • Thanks: Majority of One
    • Replies: @skrik
    , @Sparkon
    , @Agent76
  114. Poco says:
    @Majority of One

    I had long considered talk like this as just so much hippy dippy bullshit because I am a technician. An engineer, an electrical contractor, of a hands on, non-mystical bent. I’m starting to come around to your way of thinking. But it ain’t easy.

    • Replies: @Majority of One
    , @Biff
  115. @Priss Factor

    Exquisite mind deploy, such a relief of most things chatted up not even twenty years later. A Jonathan Franzen, …a bot.

  116. @Lace

    What I tend to see as the few certainties, the commoner/race/gender/class neutral surplus population will have the choice between mere subsistence under full central control(food, informtion, ambitions, partnering, systemic change, free-lance altercations) and social internment. To them the age of the vego-beta male and the transgender-black suburbanite is here. The prospect of dullness on the individual and collective level.

    Indeed, as things go, though the projections, and that from different angles, are duly anchored, expressing them does not excuse sloppy writing.

    • Agree: Lace
  117. @jsinton

    jsi: “Ammo next door”? Says who? Do your research. Ammonium nitrate cannot possibly blow up with such force all on its own. Even the Murrah building in OK City was enhanced by pre-planted explosives within the structure. Likely, that the guy with the rental truck was a totally new type of patsy–one whose action was surmounted by one by elements of the deep state. It made for a perfect media hit on extremists with a burning grudge against the government by a former GI.

    • Replies: @jsinton
  118. @A123

    A123 is Sayanim or some other form of Zionist creep troll. This becomes obvious when he calls the blast “The Nasrallah-Shima blast.” Nasrallah is the legendary head of the Hezbollah who cleaned the clock of the Israeli Offensive Force a few years back, knocking out a mess of Merkabah tanks in the process. The alien occupiers of Palestine are crapping their undies out of fear of those defenders of Lebanon.

  119. @Lace

    So you do admit to having thoughts regarding English. I’m glad for you. Obviously you are not accustomed to driving in heavy traffic. So you do read Jeff Bezos’ little rag–the primary out spewer from the horse’s heinie mouthpiece for the Agency. Capisce? Oh, and you are permitted to cuss on this site, so long as it is “apropos le moment”, is not the focus of overindulgence and adds a soupçon of spice to the pudding.

    • Thanks: Lace
    • Replies: @Lace
  120. Paul C. says:
    @Robert Dolan

    Excellent analysis, especially for those who are unaware. It’s a perfect wake up call that many need.
    I’ll be forwarding it. Thanks.

  121. @Intelligent Dasein

    Why not, if a Muslim attack was the cover for the real operation?

    • Replies: @Sya Beerens
  122. skrik says:
    @Majority of One

    The critical key is the “WHO”

    Too easy, someone with ‘privileged’ access; folowing the years-earlier bombing, security would have been tight at WTC’s 1&2 and WTC7 ditto due to the nature of some of the tennants. The explosives would need to be covertly delivered then installed ‘out of hours’ – unless disguised as maintenance, like installing new coax-cabling incl. det-cord into floor-conduits plus modems behind the dry-wall = both shaped charges and detonation-controllers, say. Of course we the great un-washed can only surmise, but ‘security’ both local and national would be presumed to know ‘who’ [possibly an ‘external’ sub-contractor] if not be the actual ‘who’ [or possibly some military group.] rgds

    • Replies: @Majority of One
  123. Alfred says:
    @Tommy Thompson

    Oil is not running out, and with new technologies, its usage is on the slide

    If you think that electric cars will save on oil, you are deluded. Electricity has to come from somewhere – and at the right time of day and right time of year. Forget about solar and wind. They are a boondoggle.

    As for oil, the USA is certainly running out. These oilfield service companies know that the future is bleak. The Permian is the biggest “shale play”

    Oilfield Service Companies Are Bailing On The Permian

    Here is what they told investors in January, 2020. If you had listened to this advice, you would have lost 3/4 your investment.

    3 Top Fracking Stocks to Buy in January

    https://www.fool.com/quote/nyse/devon-energy/dvn/
    https://www.fool.com/quote/nyse/eog-resources/eog/
    https://www.fool.com/quote/nasdaq/diamondback-energy/fang/

    Good luck with that mate!

  124. skrik says:
    @The Alarmist

    they picked Muslims to be the patsies

    Der. We know very-well why Muslims, it was to convert the ‘clash of civilisations’ into a ‘war of elimination,’ the suppression strategy [in occupied Palestine, say] was taking too long. [A bit like the war on SARS-CoV2, suppression vs elimination.] The obvious aim is to acquire ‘land without natives.’ rgds

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
  125. m___ says:
    @Loup-Bouc

    

    …population will have the choice between mere subsistence under full central control(food, informtion, ambitions, partnering, systemic change, free-lance altercations) and social internment.

    Sloppy writing indeed. Cannot be excused.

    As for my take on the overlap of different factors, much as in layers on maps, the in-distinction, first of East and West, the understand and put up, globally by the few before pointing to a West – Russia – China conflict, class overlapping race, the need to tune the global surplus populations, the altered importance of media, these could be important enough factors to insist on scope when envisioning a world view. The policies have changed, and I agree with some others, that the impact and dare translates the doubt and stress of a pressured elite to come up with better or bust. The comment should include enough meaningful factors that correlate to change the discussion from linear to possible multiple outcomes.

    The insistence of some that yes indeed a still growing population is possible and neither climate change or toxicity, resource availability prohibit this stands. …only to question what they understand by overhead, and how the added numbers would have even a single benefit to the few. It takes about the majority of a burbling middle class in media, academia and politics to herd the surplus population. That seems not to be what the few might conceive of as efficiency. The complicity and the need for a middle class of janisaries is detrimental in the long term. That is where the keg and the coup ferments.

  126. skrik says:
    @Sparkon

    you are free to produce any documentation

    I am not your google-bot. I refer you to the video I posted above on September 11, 2020 at 1:45 pm GMT. Note the puffs coming out through the window-slits; that’s from opposite-direction ‘top and bottom’ shaped explosive charges ‘flipping’ core-elements, and the wall-panel sections moving away from the tower, some of which, as said, embedded themselves into surrounding buildings. As we know from Newton, if one shoves something with a sufficient force, that something will move away in the direction of the shove, indicating that the wall-panel units were blown outwards by, one supposes, pre-planted shaped explosives at the spandrel-joints. I say ‘shaped’ because such are designed to generate a push, not just a bang. I don’t see any mystery here, all ‘standard’ physics.

    Relatively light compared to what?

    Compared to the core-columns, truly massive.

    • Replies: @Peripatetic Itch
  127. Alfred says:
    @jsinton

    A mountain load of ammonium nitrate can absolutely blow up in such an explosion

    An explosion on the surface creates a small crater if any. The nuclear explosion in the photo was triggered below the surface.

    The blast wave caused by an explosion always seeks the direction of least resistance. In this instance, it would have gone upwards and sideways – not downwards. Simple physics.

    When explosives are stored for mining or construction purposes, they are never stored in a confined space. If the structure has a roof, it is flimsy. The structure is usually surrounded by large mounds of soil to divert the blast.

    Lastly, the ground under this port is rock – like Manhattan.

    Here is some real data for nuclear and TNT explosions.

    CRATERS PRODUCED BY EXPLOSIONS ON THE SOIL SURFACE

    Table 5 on page 690 has the following data for explosions on the surface by TNT – a far more powerful explosive than Ammonium Nitrate combined with diesel in the correct ratio.

    – 50kg of TNT on surface produces with a diameter of 194 cm
    – 500kg of TNT on surface produces with a diameter of 316 cm

    A tenfold increase in the explosive produced a 63% increase in the diameter of the resultant crater.

    This is not a linear relationship. A crater with a diameter of 12,400 cm (Wikipedia) would require a nuclear explosion with a blast equivalent to 5000+ tons of TNT. Don’t take my word for it. Check the data for yourselves.

    • Agree: dogbumbreath
    • Thanks: Majority of One
    • Replies: @A123
    , @jsinton
  128. skrik says:
    @Alfred

    Bullshít, be ashamed. The bedrock was polished smooth by a glacier. Had a nuke gone off, one would get a deep underground cavern or a crater – neither happened. WTCs 1&2 collapsed from half-way up beginning near the sites of the putative a/c collisions, they did not fall unto a nuke-crater – as any fool can see, but apparently not you. Go look at the video I posted above on September 11, 2020 at 1:45 pm GMT.

    • Replies: @Alfred
    , @Lace
  129. @skrik

    Considering the US, and the rest of the West for that matter, increased its intake of migrant Muslims since 11 September 2001, it seems an odd way to depopulate land that isn’t worth much by despoiling lands that are.

    • Replies: @skrik
  130. @gotmituns

    9/11 – Unsolvable Mystery.

    9/12 – present – unjustifiable – mass graves – neo liberal – torture camps.

    Let’s focus on the facts and ourselves instead of speculations and pseudo religious ideologies

    Or shut up

  131. @Mr Blue Sky

    What exactly is a ‘Muslim’ attack? Diabetic hypo?

  132. Alfred says:

    There are plenty of frauds going on worldwide. Bill Gates has deep pockets. Anytime a politician claims to have caught Covid19, you can be sure that he is getting a Mercedes for Christmas. 🙂

    EMPTY COFFINS – EMPTY HOSPITAL – Brazilian MPs Expose Biggest Covid-19 Hoax Known to Date

    As is now new normal, Youtube.com has removed the videos showing the empty coffins. Here it is on BitChute.com


  133. Arabs can’t organize…..uhm a pair of socks but Arab cavemen with a 1978 cassette recorder and a microphone can organize a turbo war on the US bcz “God’s Great”?

    “Mohammed Tatta” looks/looked like a 1970’s Colombian disco dancer who supposedly sacrificed himself for

    72 Dades “Dates with Necro virgins”?

    Because “Islam wants to steal our freedom”.

    Covid19 wants to kill the Flu😷

    • Troll: Majority of One
  134. skrik says:
    @Peripatetic Itch

    You need to acknowledge that the high temperature of the debris pile under the twin towers and lasting for months is a feature needing to be explained

    Right. As [somebody/anybody] wrote, it took a lot of energy to blow those three little houses down. Kindly consider; a shaped-charge looks a bit like a mollusc stuck on a rock. It has a hard-shell on the outside, snuggling up closely to the target, in WTC 1, 2 & 7’s case steel girders near the ends connecting them into the structures. By Newton, when shaped-charges blow, they can transfer only a small proportion of their energy into the target steel beams, the rest blowing off into essentially emptiness – but also by thermodynamics [i.e. heat flows from hot to less-hot], to be partly absorbed by any nearby material.

    I’m sure you will understand that the energy required to pulverize a building’s concrete is orders of magnitude greater than that required to break it up into softball-sized chunks

    Right again, and that would quite adequately explain the hot-spots at all 3 sites, WTC 1, 2 & 7. QED.

    Note 1: The basements of 1 & 2 were quite deep, that could also quite adequately explain where the collapsed core-columns went to = ended up [nicely warmed up!]

    Note 2: I cannot continue to argue with irrationals, especially those whose ‘arguments’ diverge from ‘standard’ physics. So I pose this Q: Who is served [aka cui bono] by these weird troll-like posts suggesting nukes, DEW or other extreme oddities? Kindly address any further Qs to Occam.

    I wish all so-addressed posters ‘good day!’

  135. Sparkon says:
    @Alfred

    I‘ll second what skrik has said. Your image shows a natural geological feature known as a glacial pothole that was formed about 20,000 years ago.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/22/nyregion/22rocks.html

    • Replies: @Alfred
  136. skrik says:
    @The Alarmist

    That’s the so-called ‘genius’ of the ‘9/11 -> war’ inside-job perpetrators; most driven-out migrants are polluting Europe – and damaging to destroying the ‘receiving host’ cultures.

    Note, also consistent with a ‘forced diversification’ policy.

    Some good news: LGBTIQ etc. including sex-change is now becoming allowed, but AFAIK not yet anywhere compulsory. Live it up while you still can. rgds

  137. Agent76 says:
    @Alfred

    Actually thermite melts steal and government is the only entity to own and use this.

    May 25, 2014 FDNY 9/11 Survivor Witness and Whistleblower Speaks on WTC 7

    Listen very carefully starting at the ’20’ second mark! As a firefighter on 9/11, he was at Ground Zero and was there when Building 7 came down.

    • Replies: @Alfred
  138. vot tak says:

    Another of the things gets caught.

    Venezuela’s Maduro Announces Capture of Alleged US Spy Planning Explosion

    https://sputniknews.com/latam/202009111080435235-venezuelas-maduro-announces-capture-of-alleged-us-spy-planning-explosion/

    Venezuela says it captured ‘US spy’ targeting two oil refineries with ‘heavy, specialized’ weapons

    https://www.rt.com/news/500521-venezuela-us-spy-captured-oil/

    • Thanks: Kali
  139. A123 says:
    @Alfred

    There are a number of unique situations that give the NASRALLAH-SHIMA blast different crater making capability.

    I. SELF CONTAINMENT

    — Approximately 3,000,000 kg of NH3-NO4 was present.
    — The ignition mechanism appears to be other incident munitions (or possibly very large fireworks)
    — Because the Chemical reaction started from the top/outside the blast wave created its own pressure containment forcing energy downwards. The effect is similar to a shaped charge.

    Smaller amounts of explosives such as your cited 50kg, and 500 kg cannot generate this effect.
    _____

    II. UNSTABLE FOUNDATION

    The original foundation for Munitions Depot #12 dates back to the 1960’s, or possibly earlier.

    Starting in the 1980’s, multiple land reclamation and sea wall projects (1) changed water flow through the area so that it no longer matched the design specification for the original construction. The area had been effectively undercut.

    This large crater is a combination effect of both the blast and preexisting underground conditions.
    _____

    III. ADDITIONAL HIGH EXPLOSIVES

    Several observers have noted that it is highly likely that Munitions Depot #12 also contained a smaller amount of military grade High Explosives (100,000-300,000 kg) in addition to the NH4-NO3.

    They believe that the first few seconds of the primary blast show two explosions:
    — A less powerful, but supersonic “Wilson Cloud” condensation effect from High Explosives.
    — Followed by the much larger subsonic NH4-NO3 pressure wave.

    The total energy release could thus be 15-25% higher than a value calculated based on only the 3,000,000 kg of NH4-NO3.
    ______

    Taken together, these three factors provide a highly credible scenario for conventional explosives producing the observed crater.

    PEACE 😇
    _______

    • Replies: @Majority of One
    , @Iris
  140. Anonymous[372] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sparkon

    Normal micron-scale thermite is well known and easy to make. What about the nanometer-scale thermite detected by the Dutch paper, do we even have a recipe yet?

  141. Alfred says:
    @skrik

    “Bullshít, be ashamed … as any fool can see, but apparently not you”

    You clearly lost the argument as you resort to insults.

    It seems you think that they built some of the biggest buildings in New York on geological caverns. Do you seriously think that they did not do plenty of drilling before working on the foundations. 🙂

    The reason for the two distinct clusters is found in the geological history of New York. The island of Manhattan consists of three rock formations, known as Manhattan Schist, Inwood Marble and Fordham Gneiss.

    These rocks are the remains of the collision of two enormous landmasses. Some 450 million ago, the collision of the baltic areas of modern Europe with northern parts of America formed the primordial continent of Laurussia. Laurussia eventually merged with Siberia and pushed south, colliding 300 million years ago with Gondwana, a landmass formed by the tectonic union of South America, Africa, Australia and Antarctica.

    How Geology Shaped New York City’s Skyline

    • Replies: @skrik
  142. Alfred says:
    @skrik

    Right again, and that would quite adequately explain the hot-spots at all 3 sites, WTC 1, 2 & 7. QED.

    Show us any building fire that had molten steel under the debris 2 weeks later and I will accept your argument.

    The reality is that your idea of how Newton’s laws work are wrong. The energy contained in falling masonry and beams is nowhere near enough to melt steel for a single second. Otherwise, why the need of so much coal to make steel? They would simply drop the steel from a height before forging it. 🙂

    Witnesses of Molten Metal at Ground Zero

  143. Iris says:
    @skrik

    By Newton, when shaped-charges blow, they can transfer only a small proportion of their energy into the target steel beams, the rest blowing off into essentially emptiness – but also by thermodynamics [i.e. heat flows from hot to less-hot]

    Anybody who confuses the order of magnitudes of natural time constant of mechanical phenomenons, versus those of thermal phenomenons, not only demonstrates they are Physics-illiterate, but that they lack of common sense as well.

    If somebody punches you in the face, you’ll collapse in a fraction of a second. If somebody puts a big, dense, burning stone in your bed, it’ll burn your proverbial for hours. Do you get the difference?

    Your opponent kindly tried to educate you by being very specific: the high temperatures at the WTC (circa 1000 °C) lasted for months, with no visible chemical fuel in sight.

    The heat released by the WTC over 4 months was calculated by a low estimate (considering only free convection). It is in the order of the monthly energy output of a medium-size 900 MegaWatt nuclear generator. Anybody can work out what happened in the basement of the Twin Towers.

    • Thanks: Alfred, Peripatetic Itch
  144. Alfred says:
    @Sparkon

    Your image shows a natural geological feature known as a glacial pothole that was formed about 20,000 years ago.

    The choice of the NYT for an objective opinion on this subject is interesting.

    So you believe that the civil, structural and soil engineers proceeded with putting up these massive buildings without investigating the ground beneath them?

    An interesting idea. 🙂

    If that were the case, the buildings would not have risen beyond the first few floors during construction.

    Massive billboard was put opposite the offices of the NYT to point out that they were lying about the biggest event ever to have taken place in Manhattan.

    Coming September: ReThink911 Billboard to Rock NY Times

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  145. Alfred says:
    @Agent76

    Actually thermite melts steal and government is the only entity to own and use this

    There is no doubt that thermite was involved. I am not disputing that. But 99% of the energy was nuclear.

    • Agree: Peripatetic Itch
  146. @Robert Dolan

    Excellent article by Escobar – one of my favorite essayists. And thanks for posting this timely video.

    It becomes more clear to me by the day that these Masters of the Universe need to get rid of Mr. Trump. Trump’s enormous campaign rallies, in defiance of social distancing and mask mandates, are threatening their diabolical plans. Ironically, Trump himself is often clueless, as in his rush to bring an untested and dangerous vaccine to market, and in ever taking the advice of evil Dr. Fauci, who has undermined him at every turn.

    The more this Great Reset is challenged, and the longer it takes to fully implement, the greater are our chances. Why are the democrats pushing a senile sick old man, who can’t remember his lines, and who has trouble breathing and talking thru his ubiquitous black mask, as their short-term figurehead to bring down Trump the Disrupter? That could wind up being a fatal mistake on their part, especially if any debates actually take place.

    Yes, Trump is a very flawed and imperfect vehicle, but, for now at least, he has the Bully Pulpit. The forces of darkness know that they cannot defeat Heritage America this November by legal means. Thus they have frightened the mass of people, who are afraid for their safety if they go to polling places, into demanding easy to tamper mail-in ballots. Believe the witch Hillary when she warns Biden to never concede “under any circumstances.” A civil war is brewing. God help us if we lose.

  147. @Poco

    Poco: Thank you for your honesty and self-analysis. Like you, I was schooled into believing that Newtonian, Cartesian, left brain, logical rationalism was the only acceptable intellectual pathway. Over the course of many years, my level of consciousness has evolved into broader and deeper perspectives on life and reality. Perhaps a mantra/meme I have developed to cure myself of a monadic mindset would be of assistance: “The whole is equal to and greater than the sum of its parts”. Ultimately, all are one and One is all.

    Rationalistic materialists strike me as being caught up in their own rhetoric and failure to evolve, both in terms of personal evolution and spiritually. They are ideologues, trapped within the web of all-encompassing ideas promulgated by individuals like Hegel and Marx, who though brilliant in some respects; were incapable of thought processes beyond the hubris of their own intellectual postulations.

    Perhaps you are acquainted with the writings of Rupert Sheldrake, who beautifully synthesizes the discoveries of the quantum physicists. Through experimentation, these open-minded thinkers have determined that mind can and does influence matter. Thus dissolveth the primacy of materialistic rationalism.

    Maybe my reinterpretation of the materialist scientific “Big Bang Theory” could be of avail. In some foggy (to our levels of consciousness) level of being precedent to time and space; Creator IS prior to existence. Creator became bored with being this amorphous intelligence and decided that an evolving pattern of creation would be an interesting exercise.

    Creator began by playing with some gases that this essence developed. Then followed electricity, magnetism and some chemistry experiments. In succession to that procession, stellar entities came into beings, then planets. More of the interplay and organic life developed in the oceans of some of the more favored planets.

    I’m confident that you can conjure up the rest of the evolutionary pathway up to the point that Creator was still unsatisfied until he/we elected to perform another level of Big Bang—to emit holographic essences of his own being into primates which had developed in the evolutionary process—with the essential core of those transmissions being that of consciousness.

    As fellow conscious beings, Creator saw in them the perfect means by which to explore all possible realms of conceivable reality by the means of that selfsame power of creativity which is being shared by the All which is One.

    • Replies: @Poco
  148. @skrik

    You might wish to do some in-depth research on just who it was that took care of security in the towers shorty precedent to the Inside Job. Unless information sources have been thoroughly “scrubbed”, you will be amazed, intrigued, disgusted and ultimately infuriated by the identity of the agency of security.

  149. @A123

    A123 is a Sayanim disinformation specialist and has the technical backing of the Mossad to come up with his disputations. This poster has been “outed” numerous times by those who can read between the lines and notice the obvious—such as his blaming Lebanon’s chief protectors, the Hezbollah resistance movement and its now legendary leader Nasrullah. The micro nukes, which probably did the dirty work were planted by Israeli saboteurs.

    • Replies: @Sya Beerens
    , @Miro23
  150. Poco says:
    @Majority of One

    Just to be precise. I have never believed that evolutionists were correct because they believe that random collisions of atoms created codes and self replicating dna molecules. Codes are created they do not spontaneously arrange themselves.
    They are actually mystical religionists but aren’t self aware enough to know it.
    I loathe religion but the existence of a creator seems obvious to one such as myself. However I never attached any mysticism to the creator or creation.

  151. skrik says:
    @Alfred

    You clearly lost the argument as you resort to insults

    Try not to feel bad about being called ‘stupid!’ You are not alone, try looking here:

    “NYT columnist Paul Krugman ripped after claiming Americans reacted ‘calmly’ to 9/11 & didn’t blame Muslims”
    https://www.rt.com/usa/500505-paul-krugman-handled-911-tweet/

    Me: Haw! Anyone writing “no nukes on 9/11” is not losing the argument, merely demonstrating a secure and correct grasp on reality.

    Tip to you ‘9/11 nukers:’ Get real – or get lost.

  152. Gaza IS a Smart City according to the H2020 Cabal

    Life goes on behind the daily Freakshow 🤡

  153. @Mefobills

    Henry Ford’s “International Jew” by any other name, but nothing’s changed:

    Davos man and globo homo engages in speculative finance capital(ism).

    Davos man and globo homo take usury, engage in rents, and siphon unearned income toward themselves.

    We’ve been in decline for the 100 years since Mr. Ford put everything he’d built at stake to warn us, but now at this late stage of the #JEW$4whiteGENOCIDE initiative our very survival as a people is at stake as you, Mefobills, so clearly express:

    It is pretty clear who the losers will be. It will be the west, as all western economic surplus generated by western economies are harvested by the parasite class.

    So China and Russia will thrive using what you’ve educated us is “The American System” which caused us to flourish here before the Jew finance capitalists took over the USA via their blackmail of Peck’s Bad Boy

    In meantime, China and Russia – and those who join their system, will enjoy industrial capitalism, where state credit is channeled toward production; where state credit improves labor and the commons.

    Improved production and efficiencies will raise the standard of livings for their populations,

    as our path to serfdom then extinction which has been macro obvious since the 1970s has now been accelerated in 2020 by the corporate media flu hoax mandating economic surrender via shutdown sans objection due to the Goy Gag while corporate-sponsored / DOJ-enabled criminals sanctioned as Establishment soldiers in Antifa and BLM guise show us how quickly the fruits of our labors present and going back centuries will be destroyed:

    while Davos parasites continue to emit propaganda and maintain western clown world. Oligarchy and corporatism will only increase.

    Aa (((their))) Talmud tells them to do and think

    Privateers have aggrandized the money power to themselves, and now think they are god – but instead they are parasites. The parasites would rather make war than let go of their ill-gotten vaunted status.

    But you, Mefobills, have the necessary insight

    Every problem has a solution, and solutions always seem to come back to money power issue.

    plus the seasoned mental tenacity and proven courage to lead a turnaround of The West.

    In the news this week Trump ridiculed Bob Woodward for “drinking the kool-aid” when Woodward surrendered himself to the Jew-lie slander “white privilege” while asking Trump to do the same. So Trump has the tenacity and courage but needs somebody with as much or more who also has the wisdom and insight.

    That’s you, Mefobills. It’s why God had you walk those integrated halls, “Homes”, to get you ready.

  154. Von Rho says:

    Mr. Escobar held another hangout on the present issue last Friday with his Brazilian colleagues from the u2b website “Duplo Expresso”. At 3:30:30, his colleague Piero Leirner, PhD and anthropologist, says that it is crucial for the scissors strategy to incorporate some alternative discourses to the mainstream view in order to be easier to fit any serious opposition that may arise in the same category of those alternatives, that is, as a conspiracy theory. This would be the case for all the questions raised about Tower 7 in the 911, as it was claimed in the hangout, and, as we claim here, the case of the dualism between pro-vaccine globalists and pro-chloroquine nationalists. Mr. Escobar agreed with prof. Leirner, but the former should know that there are no specific antimicrobials for viruses, as there are otherwise for bacteria. All articles on antimalarial drugs, as well as colchicine, metronidazole, ivermectin and so on, were all off-label. All meta-analysis carried out showed that these substances are only palliative. All right-wingers are betting on Trump, but many of them, fascists in particular, are also betting on Chinese expansionism. I repeat that the Far East developed under the hand of the West to destroy the social achievements of the Western working class. Far East did not go through the same historical steps of West that led to philosophical development in order to promote progress. “Corruptio optimi pessima est”, said the Latins. The Western elite has gained its power over the centuries. So, even for evil, they are masters. Whoever bet against Allied forces in WWII lost. Now those who bet on China will lose. But perhaps Mr. Escobar, saying that chloroquine “unmistakably” works, fits into the type of speech described by Prof. Leirner.

  155. Sparkon says:
    @Alfred

    So you believe that the civil, structural and soil engineers proceeded with putting up these massive buildings without investigating the ground beneath them?

    If you carefully read the NYT article I linked, you’ll perhaps note that the glacial pothole was found when preparing for the construction of Tower 4 of the new World Trade Center, so the geological feature was not beneath either of the original Twin Towers.

    Sorry Charlie. In fact the geological feature was noted and described during construction of the original WTC:

    During construction of the original World Trade Center Twin Towers in the 1970’s an unusual feature was encountered. The southeast corner of the slurrywall cut through a bedrock valley filled with rounded and polished glacial boulders and cobbles. The geotechnical investigation in 2007 for Tower 4, under construction in the southeast corner of the WTC site, explored the feature further, identifying additional till filled depressions (Moss and Merguerian, 2008). During excavation for the foundation in 2008 the emerging plunge pools and potholes were studied in greater detail and wood found buried in the till was 14C dated.

    https://dspace.sunyconnect.suny.edu/bitstream/handle/1951/47900/moss-09.pdf?sequence=1

    See figure 6 on page 6 of the PDF.

    The original 4 World Trade Center was a 9-story low-rise office building completed in 1975 that was 118 ft (36 m) tall, and located in the southeast corner of the World Trade Center site.

    […]

    Following the destruction of the building during 9/11, rescuers and surveyors exploring the building’s basement discovered large amounts of gold and silver bullion in the vault … these coins bear unique labels on their holders, and have since entered the hands of collectors.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4_World_Trade_Center

    Psst: Apparently, the glacial pothole beneath the original 9 story WTC 4 did not succeed in melting any of the coins stored in the vault beneath the building.

    • Replies: @Alfred
  156. Lace says:
    @Majority of One

    I have WaPo and NYT to read the headlines of what happened and also to see how grotesquely biased some of the stories on the ‘mostly peaceful protesters’ are. So give me a suggestion as to where I should just get the new daily stories and I will love to cancel both of these forthwith. It just happened to this degree this summer, and I’d still read Douthat and sometimes Parker can be canny in WaPo, but otherwise feces. NYT did write one very small story on Cannon Hinnant and Sessums, and the paragraph where they said ‘Cannon, who was white, and Sessums, who is Black’ seemed we were already all the way in the cesspool, not just freakin’ knee-people . I googled to see if they covered the freak ‘who wanted to kill a white men’, stabbed him 7 times, was thrown in a cell with a white young man, and beat him to death. They did NOT cover it. And I’m sick of throwing out even small amounts of dough to these two toilets.

    I don’t like to watch TV news (anybody’s), so I just need a simple all-purpose place to get the main stories. I can read detailed stories here and a few other places. I mean–I ought to know but don’t. For this, I just want some centrist sort of thing like AP, the real writing I’ll find elsewhere as here.

    Sorry this is so off-topic, but this summer had the effect of my valuing my White Privilege above all else. I do read Sailer every day, and also Atzmon and Whitney, Cole and a few others, so I don’t have to be a big commenter (there seem to be knowledgeable scientists here, so that’s built-in intimidation for me), although I will some.

    Thanks.

  157. Lace says:
    @skrik

    The South Tower collapsed much lower than the North Tower, which was much higher, and why it stayed up longer after being hit first. Watching the North Tower toward the end, I kept thinking the whole building might not collapse, since hit between floors 93 and 99, but was not objectively watching this out the window I went so crazy I thought the helicopter surely had a water hose and could put out the fire. The South Tower between 77 and 85–not as low as I had thought, but still a substantial difference in the weight above the strike. But at 110 stories each, both would buckle, although I don’t know how that looked on the South Tower, I couldn’t see all of it.

  158. @Getaclue

    Well, you’re dumb.

    And you don’t know what I’m talking about.

    Here’s a clue, which you ain’t got:
    Killing people is easy. Dumb people can do it, no sweat.

  159. Iris says:
    @A123

    — Followed by the much larger subsonic NH4-NO3 pressure wave.

    You wouldn’t recognise a “much larger subsonic pressure wave” even if it came out of your much larger Hasbara a*** under the form of a giant fart.

    The particularity of one, single shock-wave is that it originates, and then propagates in a homogeneous milieu at the same speed in all spherical directions.

    It is well illustrated by this photo, where each separate detonation produces its own spherical shock-wave, illustrated by the circular shape given to the water in which it propagates.
    Assuming that the gun firings were of similar power, it becomes obvious that the one to the left occurred fractions of seconds later than that to the right.

    There is not a vaguely remote snowball’s chance in hell that hundreds of ammonium nitrate kegs, scattered over a large warehouse, would have exploded simultaneously , in perfectly synchronised fashion, at exactly the same fraction of second, so as to produce one, single, perfectly coherent shock-wave spreading symmetrically in all spherical directions. This is BS is for the gullible.

    • Agree: Patagonia Man
    • Replies: @A123
  160. Lace says:

    I was just being lazy, and will use AP, Reuters, and BBC. cancelling those two ‘pieces of shit of record’ in a few minutes. I can’t believe how long I paid for them–who needs Jennifer Rubin and David Brooks? Ever? This will be better.

    Also, I read Ron Unz’s 2018 piece on the truther movement, and that is the first one that has ever made sense to me. All the old leftist ‘troofers’ said Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld did it, which always made no sense even with people as here talking about scientific proofs or theories of how a controlled demolition could have been done. Fantastic article, and I don’t mind too much thinking of how Israeli Mossad was at it, did it–but amazing how long it’s taken me to find this. Doesn’t make me like Muslims any more than I already did, and Al Qaida did do the embassies and U.S.S. Cole, didn’t they? And ISIS Bataclan, etc.? Confused, but I’ll spend a lot of time here studying archives to see what they way. Unz’s article was the one that finally made sense, though–and he, of course, talked about how that Bush/Cheney business always got in the way of the facts.

    • Thanks: Ron Unz
  161. @Sparkon

    Exactly. Thermite is a cutting charge. No more no less. Nano-thermite, if such exists, might well be a more effective cutting charge, but nothing more. The whole thermite-destruction hypothesis seems to have been formulated to divert our attention from the extreme energetics of the explosive destruction of the towers.

    It’s the thermite hypothesis that fails a critical examination under Occam’s razor.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  162. tru3 says:
    @ploni almoni

    Deepak? Nah, try this:

    Heaven and Earth are not kind.
    They regard all things as offerings.
    The sage is not kind.
    He regards people as offerings.

    Is not the space between Heaven and Earth like a bellows?
    It is empty, but lacks nothing.
    The more it moves, the more comes out of it.

    A multitude of words is tiresome,
    Unlike remaining centered.

    Tao te Ching chapter 5

  163. Biff says:
    @Poco

    I am a technician. An engineer, an electrical contractor, of a hands on, non-mystical bent.

    Wow! Me too. I’m also the All being master of space, time and dimension.

    • Troll: Majority of One
    • Replies: @Poco
  164. vot tak says:

    New US Air Force Chief Suggests Possible ‘Future War’ Would Be Fought ‘Not Far’ From US Shores

    https://sputniknews.com/military/202009121080442832-new-us-air-force-chief-suggests-possible-future-war-would-be-fought-not-far-from-us-shores/

    “The incoming USAF chief of staff, Charles Brown Jr., stated that the next possible “future war” involving the US will look very different from the many wars waged by Washington in the last 20 years. A future armed conflict against a near-peer adversary, possibly Russia or China, would “not remain far from our shores” and would be more “akin to the World War II era”, Brown alleged in his program paper for the military branch.

    “Likely future budget pressures will require the most difficult force structure decisions in generations. We cannot shy away from these decisions. [Previous decisions] do not deliver the outcomes we need today due to the rapidly-changing elements of the competitions with China and Russia”, Brown asserted.

    In contrast to the previous administration, US President Donald Trump and his administration has consistently suggested that Russia and China are the most likely “near-peer adversaries” that America might face in a future armed conflict, despite neither nation displaying any form of military or territorial aggression toward the US. The shift in posture was followed by Washington’s decision to boost investment in the development of new nuclear weapons and in the modernisation of existing nuclear technology. The Trump White House also chose to ditch a key Soviet-era agreement with Russia in 2019, which banned the development and production of short- and medium-range ballistic missiles, under a pretext of alleged violations on Russia’s part, announcing the creation of a new nuclear missile soon after.”

    The zionazi-gays are preparing their pindo colony to fight ww3 against Russia and China.

  165. @tru3

    I see I am not good at sarcasm. I have utter contempt for Deepak Chopra.
    as for the TAO I prefer this translation:
    Heaven and Earth are impartial;
    They regard All Things as straw dogs.
    Evolved Individuals are impartial;
    They regard all people as straw dogs.

    Between Heaven and Earth,
    The space is like a bellows.
    The shape changes,
    But not the form.
    The more it moves,
    The more it produces

    • Replies: @Patagonia Man
    , @Von Rho
  166. @skrik

    As we know from Newton, if one shoves something with a sufficient force, that something will move away in the direction of the shove, indicating that the wall-panel units were blown outwards by, one supposes, pre-planted shaped explosives

    Surely you jest. You meant Olivia Newton-John, right? Not Sir Isaac, right. Because if you meant Isaac, you would have realized that the mass of the object pushed has a wee tiny bit to do with how much it moves. You might even have come up with an exact weight of the outside spandrel sections or box columns to challenge Sparkon’s estimate of several tons. Then you might have estimated the magnitude of the force, in Newtons, generated by your so-called standard shaped charge. Then we could all have calculated the acceleration, the distance traveled and the speed with which those columns could hit a wall hundreds of yards away.

    When I google “shaped charges” I find they are specifically used for cutting girders and such, by focusing the limited blast effect on a small area, and bringing down structures in multiple pieces, not for pulverizing or ejecting at great speed. The experts who use them say they are limited to a catalytic effect, with gravity doing the real work. When I google “shaped charges, pushing effect” my search engine tells me, not many results, do you want to continue?

    Of course that “one supposes” of yours covers up a great many sins. Projection being one of them, I suggest.

    • Replies: @skrik
  167. Miro23 says:
    @Majority of One

    The micro nukes, which probably did the dirty work were planted by Israeli saboteurs.

    Apart from the high temperatures, there’s another problem with the non-nuclear explanation. Laurent Guyénot calculated, that to demolish the towers exclusively with thermite would have required truck loads of it with hundreds of men working for months (Niels Harrit calculated at a minimum 29,000 metric tons – about 1,500 truck loads with men working 24hours a day for 300 days) – which clearly didn’t happen.

    • Agree: Alfred
    • Replies: @Iris
    , @Alfred
  168. @Lace

    In the words of our esteemed “decider”, I must apologize for “misunderestimating” you. Appears that you have found an excellent site right here at Unz. What you will discover is that the scene here is a potpourri of single-issue types who cannot find another place to spout off; assorted haters and off-the-rails types; a constant trickle of intel agents who closely monitor citizen expostulations; and finally, some of the most deeply informed individuals you will encounter on any marketplace of ideas. I have learned a great deal from some of them, reminding myself that “he not busy being born is busy dying” –Dylan.

    My second go-to location is global research.ca, emanating from Montreal and headed up by the estimable Michel Chossudovsky and featuring a plethora of highly-credentialed and internationally recognized analysts of various persuasions of political perspectives. One highly regarded feature of that site is their posting of links to various other alternative resources which are working diligently to make sense of our current dilemmas.

    From 2000 to 2016 I had regular but delayed access to print copies of the NYT, where I perused headlines, occasionally scanned a news article, enjoyed a few features and was altogether addicted to Will Shortz’ daily crosswords, finding the Monday and Tuesday ones to be not very challenging, the Wednesday and Thursday editions rather run, the Friday one quite challenging and Saturday’s appeared to be composed so as to lead most “solvers” to doubt the scopes of their own knowledge bases–in other words, cheating by means of reference works or googling. My secondary use for the publication was to kindle my wood cookstove and for waste-disposal duties. The WaPo may be regarded as a regurgitation of memes developed by the CIA and other intel minderbinders.

    • Replies: @Lace
  169. Alfred says:
    @Sparkon

    So your thesis is that although not a single high-rise steel frame building in the world has ever collapsed from fire, on that particular day 3 of them were destroyed and blew up into fragments because of fire.

    The thousands of other steel-frame buildings that caught fire over the past 100 years were just lucky because they did not blow up in a likewise manner. 🙂

    By constantly referring to the propagandist mainstream media and schools that are funded by the criminally-complicit government of the USA, you have proven that you are a troll.

  170. Anonymous[121] • Disclaimer says:
    @Lace

    so I don’t have to be a big commenter (there seem to be knowledgeable scientists here, so that’s built-in intimidation for me), although I will some.

    There is no need to be intimidated, as long as you comment

    a) honestly and plainly (with no hidden agenda)

    b) to the best of YOUR knowledge on the matter (and willing to learn from the better informed, of course)

    With these caveats, comment away. We all benefit from open discussion.

    • Replies: @Lace
  171. Avianthro says:

    First, a few words to ponder from Ted Kaczynski’s Manifesto, aka the Unabomber Manifesto (https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/unabomber/manifesto.text.htm):

    “TECHNOLOGY IS A MORE POWERFUL
    SOCIAL FORCE THAN THE ASPIRATION FOR
    FREEDOM

    [MORE]

    125. It is not possible to make a LASTING compromise
    between technology and freedom, because technology is
    by far the more powerful social force and continually encroaches on freedom through REPEATED compromises.
    128. While technological progress AS A WHOLE continually narrows our sphere of freedom, each new technical advance CONSIDERED BY ITSELF appears to be desirable.”

    The Great Reset is all about accelerating the hegemony of a new technological paradigm, a so-called 4th Industrial Revolution (IR). It is a global-supranational phenomenon though its impacts may differ in nature and degree from nation to nation depending on each nation’s current state of “progress”…many nations are still actually struggling to achieve full 2nd IR status while the more advanced/developed continue to move ahead. It involves not just Western but Eastern “stakeholders”…The “Eastern Bloc” (China-Russia) are every bit as much, if not more, on board as the Western Bloc, and are quite active in the WEF. (https://www.veteranstoday.com/2020/07/12/putins-vision-for-an-anti-fascist-open-system-future-and-you/)

    The East-West conflict, if there is a real one, not just one made/staged for the sake of MIC maintenance, lies in the matter of which bloc will be able to lead and control this 4th IR to become the next global economic power hegemon, globally dominant empire. (Note: Really though we also need to be aware that not only is this 4th IR supranational but the “players” making it happen, the global investor-corporate class, is also very much supranational. Is there not really already only one hegemon…the global financial elite investor class, that is at least in effect running a competition between the E&W in order to increase its net returns?…Competition as a driver of higher GDP…economic power)

    This new tech paradigm is a phalanx of new techs brought together or commonly enabled-made mutually cooperative/synergistic by digital-info techs of the 3rd IR, and don’t forget that the whole thing depends on one critical input resource: exosomatic energy. Without a transformation of our energy supply from fossil to non-fossil and at a higher potential energy flow rate (TWh/yr if we’re talking global scale), this 4th IR fizzles out entirely, and we have a devolution scenario. Additionally, by the way, we face the challenge, even more fundamental, of our endosomatic energy supply (food and water) obviously fundamental to all previous IRs since we cannot live without it. So, all of this 4th IR dreaming and strategizing will depend first on very basic fundamental inputs of energy (exo and endo) and then also on a spectrum of other inputs, materials…minerals. Both sides are now very actively seeking to be sure they address the challenge of maintaining flows of energy and materials, and are heading into deeper, more intense competition for these fundamental inputs. It looks like the BRI is the East’s strategy while the West’s strategy appears to be not so well organized, shall we say not so pro-active, but it does already stand on an established global neocolonial base with military power strategically projected (navies and bases) around the globe to support it…The East is the challenger. The West the reigning champ.

    As social organisms, lifeforms composed of other smaller-size lifeforms) the East and West political-economic entities are both naturally, and necessarily, exhibiting “imperial” behavior, one as a newly emergent empire and the other older and undergoing some weakening. The Great Reset is a thing that both must seek to control in their competition with each other for life-support (economic) resources, but ultimately we may ask, as does Kaczynski, whether the thing that’s really in control is the technology itself, and whether it may be best for all if this 4th IR falls on its face.

  172. Dane says:

    Thats quite a lot of high fallutin babble right there . Here’s something simpler to contend with. (albeit a tad more abstract )
    To whit : As some may understand , the Human consciousness has been “tweaked” genetically or otherwise by , I suggest, higher universal forces . Some may call them / it “god(s) “. “Garden of Eden ” anyone ?
    In our earlier forms of grunting and thumping animals to death to survive , to becoming skilled in laying out lines of seeds at certain times. Thus onto being diggers for gold (some even “chosen” to collate said “gold”. All at different points in our human development .
    What is apparent, but yet occult is that ….yes our minds have been tampered with along our way . But during those times we were asleep, anaesthetised (ignorant ) on the operating slab .
    I posit we are undergoing the same again except this time to a state of consciousness beyond our present ken . and yet more pertinently THIS TIME …..we are awake on the operating table. or at least semi conscious .
    WTC 911 raised the worlds spiritual consciousness .It “woke” many people up . Its worthwhile bearing in mind that the raising of human consciousness is not always done via quiet religious study or mediumistic “channelling “etc . Quite often it comes with a bang . Just as it did twice in Japan Hiroshima and Nagasaki .
    Sometimes we need a good slap to raise us from our somnolence.
    Whatever/ whoever is giving us this slap right now I think, sees our human lifeplan from a far greater perspective than ours with our feet and minds on terra firma.
    Change brings discomfort and uncertainty . Adaptability is the key . “Que sera sera ” as they say . all I say is “lose the fear “.
    Ps , just dont even trust the god/s either . lol

  173. @ploni almoni

    English playwright William Shakespeare said it this way:

    ‘Nothing is either good or bad – its the mind that makes it so”

    Regards

  174. skrik says:
    @Peripatetic Itch

    You meant Olivia Newton-John, right?

    No; actually Olivia neutron-bomb.

    One of my many alleged sins: {projection
    n noun
    1 an estimate or forecast based on present trends.
    2 the projecting of an image, sound, etc.
    3 the presentation or promotion of someone or something in a particular way. Øa mental image viewed as reality.
    4 the unconscious transfer of one’s own desires or emotions to another person.
    5 a protruding thing.
    6 a map or diagram made by projecting a given figure, area, etc.}

    Which?

    I assert that my analysis is based on standard physics as known to me, interpreting videos such as the one above titled “IF only one video THEN this” here repeated:

    What do you see? From the soundtrack: “the horizontal speed of some of the girders has been ‘clocked’ at over 70mph.”

    Q: Do you know the rough concept of WTC 1&2 construction?
    A: Yes, [US-talk] a soda-can with a stick down the middle.

    Olivia neutron-bomb says every push has an equal and opposite reaction, so now you can explain to us exactly how nukes eject wall-panels, as part of an integrated ‘how nukes did it all‘ tour de force. Not holding my breath.

    • Replies: @Peripatetic Itch
  175. annamaria says:

    The lynching of Assange:

    Comment:

    The big mistake Julian made was back in 2012, when he ran to the Ecuadorian Embassy, instead, he should have ran to the Russian embassy, they would never hand him over. Look at Edward Snowden a free bird.

    Yes, the most prominent Political Prisoner of our times has been tortured by the UK’ deciders on the orders of the US’ deciders. As for US/UK judges, they serve not to justice and truth but Military-Industrial Complex and the war profiteers and war criminals like Blairs, Obamas, and Clintons.

    A month after the Afghan War Diaries were published [2006] two women went to the police in Sweden to ask if Assange could be tested for sexually transmitted disease after having unprotected relations with both of them. One of the women later texted that she had been “railroaded” by police into making a formal complaint about rape and refused to sign her statement. The next day Sweden’s chief prosecutor dismissed the allegations. …

    In 2016, WikiLeaks published leaked emails from the Democratic National Convention and Hillary Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta that exposed …Hillary Clinton’s role in the destruction of Libya…

    The First Amendment prevailed until the Trump administration charged Assange with espionage. … Journalists have for decades possessed and published state secrets without consequence. This is what makes Assange’s case an unprecedented assault on freedom of the press and the First Amendment.

    https://consortiumnews.com/2020/02/10/julian-assange-wins-2020-gary-webb-freedom-of-the-press-award/

    • Replies: @Peripatetic Itch
  176. Iris says:
    @Miro23

    Laurent Guyénot calculated, that to demolish the towers exclusively with thermite would have required truck loads of it with hundreds of men working for months

    Indeed. A low estimate of the amount of heat released by the WTC towers footprints over four months after the tragedy was actually calculated, based on aerial thermal imagery, and found to be in the order of 10^15 joules (1 peta Joules).

    https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/hal-02004696v2

    Producing 1 peta Joules would have required in the order of 100,000 metric tons of chemical energy carriers, whether that be thermite, nanothermite, kerosene, or any other chemical compound. Such quantity would have been impossible to hide.

    Conversely, producing 1 peta Joule of thermal energy would have required only 10 metric tons of nuclear energy carriers, a mass and volume inferior to, say, a couple of ordinary industrial generators and easy to conceal.

    There is no other possible Physics-compliant explanation to the 4 months-long heat release at the WTC disaster site: nuclear bombs were detonated underground

    • Agree: Alfred
  177. jsinton says:
    @Alfred

    The ground under the warehouse is not rock. It was reclaimed land. I can tell you from experience, the coast off N. Beirut drops off sharply. Reclaimed land is built from loose fill. So it was a deep loose-fill reclaimed crater. Doesn’t surprise me that it left a big crater.

    • Replies: @Alfred
  178. jsinton says:
    @Majority of One

    “Ammo” because the Lebanese had no use for a warehouse full of “fireworks”. Fireworks displays are not a big feature in Lebanon. There was no exporting “fireworks” to Syria. They shoot their guns in the air for New Years. It should be a simple matter to tell what was burning by examining the debris on the ground, but politically difficult depending on if it WAS ammo or not.

    Did you watch the video of the fire before the explosion? Certainly there was enough explosions and fire to cause a fuel-air explosion of the ammonium nitrate. No question of “how” it exploded. Just “who” put it there, “who” lit the match, and “why” it was there in the first place.

    • Replies: @A123
  179. @tru3

    The reason why it is a better translation is because “offerings” sounds as if the “offerings” are despised. “Straw dogs” does require some exegesis:
    Su Zhe’s commentary on this verse explains: “Heaven and Earth are not partial. They do not kill living things out of cruelty or give them birth out of kindness. We do the same when we make straw dogs to use in sacrifices. We dress them up and put them on the altar, but not because we love them. And when the ceremony is over, we throw them into the street, but not because we hate them.”

  180. @skrik

    Kindly address any further Qs to Occam.

    So Mr. Ersatz Occam, if I may call you that, since you actually display a rat’s-ass amount of respect for the real Occam, let’s look at your so-called science. You do like to drop Newton’s name a lot, though there isn’t even a hint of any Newtonian principle in the following statement:

    By Newton, when shaped-charges blow, they can transfer only a small proportion of their energy into the target steel beams, the rest blowing off into essentially emptiness – but also by thermodynamics [i.e. heat flows from hot to less-hot], to be partly absorbed by any nearby material.

    So your magical little clam shells can launch multi-ton girders off into space at semi-warp speeds with but only a small fraction of their energy, and raise the temperature of the massive rubble pile to 1000° C with but another small fraction, the rest of their energy blowing off into nothing. Since those girders are the size of many cars, I’m guessing your last gig was as a consultant for Mr. Elon.

    By the way, given that many demolition companies drop bridges into water and the boiling point of water is a mere 100° C, I’m sure you will have no trouble finding a video where the falling bridge boils a whole river dry. Not.

    You really should stick to your areas of expertise, in middle-east politics and epidemiology.

    • Replies: @skrik
  181. A123 says:
    @Iris

    Iris of Tehran,

    We all know you take money from Khameni. You do not have to prove it with your technical incompetence.

    There is a more than adequate record that shows that huge quantities of NH4-NO3 can detonate in a single blast. For example, history shows that Galveston was levelled by ~2,000,000 kg of 100% NH4-NO3. (1).

    The exact mechanism of why large quantities go off in a single blast could be discussed. However, I will graciously not go down that road as it is clear that basic science is outside of your comprehension.
    _____

    Instead, let us consider the more important questions:

    — Why did your Nasrallah ignore the lessons of history, such as Gaveston?
    — Why did he set up Iranian al’Hezbollah Munitions Depot #12 in a populated area?
    — Could it be that Nasrallah thought using Lebanese civilians as “human shields” was desirible?

    Enquiring minds want the TRUTH, not your pathetic & obvious Taqiyya lies.

    PEACE 😇
    _______

    George Santayana, “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”
    _______

    (1) https://www.learning-history.com/galveston-bay-disaster-deadliest-industrial-accident/
    .

    • LOL: Alfred
    • Replies: @Majority of One
    , @Iris
  182. A123 says:
    @jsinton

    J,

    Good Luck. I found trying to have a serious conversation with Minority of Zero impossible.

    I added that pathetic Taqiyya Troll to my blocked commenters list some time ago. When it lies, all I see is a inoffensive grey bar instead of its ranting.

    I am about to do the same to the scientifically illiterate Iris of Tehran.

    PEACE 😇
    _______

    “You cannot help people permanently by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves.” ― Abraham Lincoln

    • Agree: jsinton
    • Replies: @ploni almoni
  183. Poco says:
    @Biff

    You seem more like a turd in a birdbath.

  184. skrik says:
    @Peripatetic Itch

    Me: {so now you can explain to us exactly how nukes eject wall-panels, as part of an integrated ‘how nukes did it all‘ tour de force. Not holding my breath.}

    You: Not a peep. I think it’s now time for you to put up or shut up. Let’s see if you can earn

    a rat’s-ass amount of respect

    Eh? And if not, why not? Could it be that your cupboard is bare? Rat’s-ass bare?

  185. @A123

    I don’t know why A123, but you sound just like an Israeli disinformation agent.

    • Agree: Majority of One
    • Replies: @A123
  186. @skrik

    What do you see? From the soundtrack: “the horizontal speed of some of the girders has been ‘clocked’ at over 70mph.”

    Isolated facts do not make an argument. I don’t need to disagree with you to point out it’s no different from putting 100 monkeys in a room with typewriters and hoping a masterpiece will result. A real argument would put the speed of the girders together with their weight to calculate their momentum and then determine what sorts and amounts of explosive would suffice to produce such. You don’t do that because you can’t. You wouldn’t know even where to start. But then you outdo yourself with this non-sequitur:

    every push has an equal and opposite reaction, so now you can explain to us exactly how nukes eject wall-panels

    In case you didn’t notice, nukes work pretty much exactly in their destructive action as do conventional explosives — by creating a shock wave of super-heated gases (by E = mc², remember). The only difference is that they are orders of magnitude hotter and more energetic than conventionals. Heck they can even pulverize massive amounts of concrete, eject things into the stratosphere and raise the temperature of rubble piles to a thousand degrees. The point is, though, they can do anything a conventional can do, only better. Everything else is explained by the random and chaotic conditions within the shock wave.

    Understand I have never denied a role for conventional explosives in the WTC demolitions. They just cannot account for the major features of the event. and that is what Occam’s razor is all about.

    • Replies: @skrik
  187. A123 says:
    @ploni almoni

    Phoney Ploni Baloni,

    Why is it that you sound like a liar?

    Most likely it is because…. gasp…. You are a proven liar.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @ploni almoni
  188. Lace says:
    @Anonymous

    Thank you for your thoughtfulness and welcoming. I don’t think I’m in general intimidated, I was talking specifically about b) to the best of YOUR knowledge on the matter (and willing to learn from the better informed, of course)

    I am a classical musician and most of my professional knowledge is in the Classical Arts, though a good bit of popular culture too, know tons about movies from the silents on. But I know nothing of physics and was blinded and fascinated by all this talk of ‘spandrels’ and ‘thermite’ and ‘ammonium nitrate’ and ‘mininukes’ that’s being discussed about 9/11 (and a good number of people knowing a lot), so I definitely purely listen and learn on those things–and still can manage to know only a little of what they’re talking about. “Intimidated” is probably too high a word, more the r-word, which I usually like to call other people instead of myself.

    My rage came when ‘white allies’ and incomprehensible alien, unsightly freaks like d’Angelo started doing their Aphid Number in public. Even though in a Whitopia in NYC, I’m still surrounded by 100% supporters of BLM (and the best neighbourhoods have been what they’re targeting this time, so I had looting a block away already in early June.) Then I saw the 2 big papers had rotted all the way. That was it, and I cancelled them both yesterday, and NYT asked me why–and I certainly told them, including that even WaPo capitalized both ‘black’ and ‘white’–although that, of course, is the least of it.

    So thanks for the encouragement, I will comment and question on the things I’m ignorant about.

  189. @annamaria

    The First Amendment prevailed until the Trump administration charged Assange with espionage

    The First Amendment prevailed until the Trump DOJ taken over by the Mueller Special Counsel team charged Assange with espionage

    Fixed it for you. Mueller was working against Trump, not for him. All part of the Russian collusion hoax

    • Agree: Majority of One
  190. Lace says:
    @Majority of One

    finally, some of the most deeply informed individuals you will encounter on any marketplace of ideas.

    Yes, there truly are. I read a lot before I even put those little comments yesterday–and the knowledge of all the materials like ‘thermite’, ‘spandrels’ were things a lot of commenters were fluent in–and about which I know nothing. But this post itself is very thought-provoking too, and I want to learn more and more about the funders of BLM and what they and the Davos ‘masters’ are doing–as do many here. The spinelessness of these ‘white allies’ has simply floored me–and they are taken full advantage of. What do they want? A restaurant of BLM cannibals? One of the British black writers said “‘no no no no, the money is not enough, you have to have a ‘loss of grace’”–which is even illiterate, because the ‘grace’ meant ‘white privilege’–but ‘grace itself’ is only desirable. So she was telling them “you can prove to us only by wanting something totally undesirable for yourself”. And these people so stupid they just take it all at face value. They actually do what they’re told! I think Taki had a good one the other day called ‘The Only Good White Ally is a Dead White Ally”.

    I guess it was when WaPo and NYT became 100% white allies that I found what’s closest to my ‘single issue type’ here. All that defense of being the only exceptions to large gatherings. I will check out your montreal site today.

    I had read NRx writers for some years, and found Unz from links from ‘outsideness’s tweets–he can write a mean one: Two months before Saint Floyd he wrote “Full-spectrum social collapse is no reason to avoid race wars in the sewers”. I don’t like nearly all the NRx writers, though, and could not be a part of it, although some of them are good.

    Much appreciated.

  191. @A123

    Your Mossad handlers do a lot of research for you. The takes are very carefully skewed, of course.

  192. Von Rho says:
    @ploni almoni

    These verses show what I have always warned Westerners who are attracted to Eastern cultures. Notice how Taoism worships Nature (Earth, Heaven), not the gods (brought to China by Buddhism). They didn’t even evolve from animism to polytheism. Not without reason, both Chinese and Mughal emperors had Jesuit priests to advise them, even to help Emperor Akbar when he created Din-i-Ilahi, or a cult that intended to synthesize various religions. Modern China only grew under the benevolent hand of the West. The same hand that gave, now it will take away.

    • Replies: @ploni almoni
  193. skrik says:
    @Peripatetic Itch

    Either offer us your integrated alternative [appropriately substantiated] or you have zero credibility.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
    , @Peripatetic Itch
  194. @Agent76

    This will is a good report.

    Thank you, that was great.

    I personally hadn’t been aware of the extent of the EPA coverup, Baer’s “cash out guy” comment, and the actions of the AF general the evening before the attacks.

  195. Iris says:
    @A123

    The exact mechanism of why large quantities go off in a single blast could be discussed.

    But we all already know the answer. Large “quantities” of BS go off of your Hasbara a*** every time Israel’s crimes are evoked. The unmissable smell of Hasbara farting over any article pertaining to 9/11, JFK, or the Beirut bombing is equally unmissable proof of Israel’s culpability.

    As for the Beirut Harbor, and unlike other more ancient explosions, it was recorded by modern instrumentation, including a seismograph.

    The seismic data shows a smear-like spot caused by the first, smaller explosion, then followed by a an abrupt and massive disturbance, representing the behavior of a perfectly coherent shock-wave: the maximum amplitude is reached at the very beginning, as would be caused by the initial abrupt front of a pressure shock-wave.

    Apart from the smokescreen first explosion, the second, devastating blast produced one, single, coherent shock-wave, that is a pressure disruption with a single origin that spread uniformly as per a spherical pattern centered around the origin of the explosion

    For this to happen, it would have required that the hundreds of Ammonium Nitrate bags that exploded, by an extraordinary chance, did so at exactly the same time.

    You may as well try to convince me that when you make pop corn, and put 2000 grains of corn in a pan, you get them to pop all at exactly the same fraction of a second. Enough with Israeli intellectual farting now.

    • Thanks: Alfred
  196. @A123

    So you admit that you betray all of humanity. How can you know that and still face your neighbors without screaming “I am a monster!” You know your “shalom” and your “halo” do not protect you from the evil of yourself.

    • Replies: @A123
  197. A123 says:
    @ploni almoni

    Phoney Ploni Baloni,

    What are you blithering & lying about now?

    Sorry. No dead Christian babies for you today. Have considered renouncing your false Prophet, The Anti-Christ Muhammad?

    PEACE 😇

  198. Iris says:
    @Peripatetic Itch

    The demolition of WTC1 and WTC2, with hardly any debris pile in the footprint, differed in essential characteristics from that of WTC7. The debris pile under WTC7 was big enough to account for the structural steel in the structure, suggesting that the building came down pretty much in its own footprint

    These observations about the piles of debris are indeed very important indication to understand what actually happened at the WTC;

    A technique called LIDAR (Laser Detection and Ranging) was used to produce 3-dimensional mapping of the devastated WTC.

    It showed that, where the North and South Tower used to stand, the ground was presenting negative elevations. They are represented by the orange-red colored sections, of the South Tower to the right, and of the North Tower in the centre.

    Further more, the red spot to the left is the gaping hole within WTC5, a building which suffered no “fire ” or “airliner crash”, but was also destroyed at the basement level.

    Not only the buildings left an insignificant pile of rubble, but their basement caved in, indicating that the towers were destroyed at the basement level: only underground explosive charges can do that.

  199. Sparkon says:
    @skrik

    Wrong. That’s called a false dilemma. So much for your logical chops.

    But at least you didn’t resort to name calling, and I do welcome your comments.

    • Replies: @skrik
  200. @skrik

    Precisely. Foreign intelligence picking up murmurs of “Muslim plotting” is entirely compatible with “israel” exploding the Towers and blaming it on dark strangers.

  201. @skrik

    And if the ground is so soft, it should be easy to just scoop it out and find the wreckage and the bodies of the victims, so that they may be given a proper burial. Didn’t anyone ask the families about this? Didn’t the authorities want to find the plane, the cause of the crash, the identities of the hijackers, and so on, and so on. It looks like a coverup!

  202. Sparkon says:
    @Peripatetic Itch

    Yes, and it’s also a red herring.

    Another red herring is the nukes in the basement theory a la Dimitri Khalezov.

    The need to protect the slurry wall, the so-called “bathtub” holding out the Hudson River pretty much rules out any subterranean nukes. In the event, the slurry wall sustained only minor damage on 9/11, did not give way, and the site wasn’t flooded.

    The available videos show the Twin Towers being blown apart from the top down while the lower portions of each building remain undisturbed until their turn comes as the destructive force spirals downward hurling debris outward like an eruption, creating a fountain of dust that some see as a pyroclastic flow.

    Simon Shack and other video analysts say the entire demolition sequences are fake for WTC 1, 2 and 7. Certainly many of the videos show various artifacts indicative of video editing, such as dark outlines around objects or buildings, and murky skies.

    Khalezov himself had used a bad or scratch version of the WTC 1 demolition sequence, poor sap, where the tower had the wrong number of vertical columns, which additionally were skewed. Those flaws are the classic hallmarks of a poorly positioned image map in a 3D graphics program, and a dead giveaway that the building in the video was a 3D model.

    When it comes to own goals, that was a beauty.

    Now it’s time to talk about the gold. Up next.

    • Replies: @Peripatetic Itch
    , @Iris
  203. @Tommy Thompson

    Just goes to show how wrong you can be. Oil is running out onto the beaches of Mauritius:
    https://phys.org/news/2020-08-mauritius-oil-potential-failures-expert.html
    The pollution has not been contained. Plastics continue to choke the oceans. Japan is waiting for someone to design a robot that can scrape melted and hardened uranium off concrete in the Fukushima nuke plant, and a river runs through it, into the Pacific Ocean. Can you walk for one hour without seeing any trash?

  204. @The Alarmist

    It was a great plan: buy a condemned building full of asbestos for pennies on the dollar. In fact use Other People’s Money to do that. Double-insure the sucker, then blow it up. Blame it on the Jews, sorry, Blacks, no: Muslims, like in Palestine. Yeah blame it on Arab terrorists: Obama bin Laden. Claim your billions (one of your buddies be the judge). The cops will never suspect anything.

  205. Sparkon says:

    In the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks on the WTC, there was a (once) publicized operation beginning on October 16, 2001, led by NYC Mayor Giuliani with a team of 30 police and fire fighters, and accompanied by his police and fire commissioners, to recover gold bars from a 2-level bombproof vault maintained by Toronto’s Bank of Nova Scotia, and located four stories beneath WTC 4, one of the buildings that had collapsed or was otherwise destroyed during the attacks on the World Trade Center on Sept. 11, 2001.

    Nov 1, 2001 — Most of the $200 million in gold and silver buried under a building destroyed in the World Trade Center attack has been recovered.

    “I think we have most of it. I’m not sure we have all of it yet,” Mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani said.

    https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2001-nov-01-mn-64176-story.html

    Supposedly, Giuliani’s gold recovery operation was a two day affair beginning on Oct. 16, but apparently it took until late October to count the gold bars, and apparently Giuliani’s team was still working. Eventually, it was determined that $230 million in gold and silver bars had been recovered from the vault, but the Bank of Nova Scotia said that an additional $200 million in gold bars had been lost.

    To this day, only $230 million has officially been accounted for. All of that was retrieved from the previously mentioned, two-level, 6,000-square-foot vault maintained by the Bank of Nova Scotia. They reportedly lost $200 million in gold as a result of the attacks. However, other estimates suggest there was an additional $750 million worth of precious metals that may have been stored in other vaults or hurriedly evacuated from the Nova Scotia vault before the skyscrapers came down.

    https://www.investoffshore.com/how-much-gold-was-under-wtc-complex/

    According to an article in the New York Times, the World Trade Center had substantial basement and underground structures with a volume twice that of the Empire State Building, and at least some of these areas survived 9/11 relatively intact.

    On Oct. 15, 2001, just one day before the gold recovery operation began, Mayor Giuliani had received word that he was being knighted by her royal majesty, Queen Elizabeth II. Giuliani’s police and fire commissioners were also to be bestowed with honorary awards from the Queen – Commander of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire.

    Hmmm. I wonder about the timing of the Queen’s awards, and I wonder also what happened to the missing $200 million in gold. One clue might be the crushed 10-wheeled armored truck containing millions in gold bars that was reportedly discovered in a delivery tunnel under WTC 5.

    Comex is on record saying they stored a large amount of gold in vaults under the WTC, but it’s not entirely clear if they used the Toronto bank’s vault, or if there were perhaps additional vaults beneath the WTC. Former mob boss Tony Gambino made this remark in a 2007 radio interview:

    “I know for a fact that Bush [and other] U.S. government leaders had prior knowledge and helped organize 9-11. They did it for many obvious reasons, one being to instigate a war in Iraq. But they also did it to get their hands on all the gold that was hidden below the [WTC].”

    Gambino also claimed his grandfather’s construction company built the WTC, and installed underground vaults to store vast quantities of gold.

    That claim is repeated in this long article from 911 Justice Halifax about the missing gold.

    The patient reader who plows through the article from 911 Justice Halifax, will find this claim in the comments at the very bottom:

    I was brought here because I was just reading the Last Will and Testament of Ferdinand Marcos and read this part:

    “brought by the undersigned to the United States of America worth $ 20, 000, 000, 000 or 10, 000 metric tons of gold bars that preserved beneath the World Trade Center in New York City, USA that directly intended for the welfare and benefit of the People of the Philippine Islands”.

    That’s $20 billion in gold bars. Another commenter added:

    Philippines is The owner of GOLD deposited in wold trade center in new york is the payment to USA for Philippine independence and the damages with condition of 4% per anum expired Sept 11, 2001 the Birthday of Ferdinand Marcos. the documents found in Ferdinand Marcos last will testament in youtube.

    • Thanks: annamaria
  206. @Sparkon

    The need to protect the slurry wall, the so-called “bathtub” holding out the Hudson River pretty much rules out any subterranean nukes. In the event, the slurry wall sustained only minor damage on 9/11, did not give way, and the site wasn’t flooded.

    Fair comment. The nuclear engineers (and not just Khalezov) seem to think, however, that the open elevator shafts directed the force of the blast upwards in a spreading laser-like beam to protect the bath-tub and take the towers down top first. Not being competent in that profession myself, I can not evaluate the claim, though it does seem to me that there might be technical means relating to the design of the device to enhance the effect. The only thing I can find in the literature is a statement that tunnels bored through solid rock are fairly resistant to damage from blasts, which should also apply to chimneys, if I am reading it correctly.
    Shock Effects of Surface and Subsurface Bursts

    There is clearly still room for much discussion about the nature and placement of the device(s). What is your best hypothesis?

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  207. Iris says:
    @Sparkon

    The need to protect the slurry wall, the so-called “bathtub” holding out the Hudson River pretty much rules out any subterranean nukes. In the event, the slurry wall sustained only minor damage on 9/11, did not give way, and the site wasn’t flooded.

    The damage incurred by the Bath Tub, the slurry encompassing part of the WTC footprint and protecting it against water ingress from the Hudson river, is one of the most striking evidence of underground explosion.

    The Bathtub was partially destroyed and had to be repaired. A map of the damages was even published by the New York Time, a picture that was easy to find a few years ago but now expurged from the Internet.

    If a building was to be destroyed using traditional methods, thanks to aerial explosions only, one would not expect to see damage to the building’s basement, let alone to an independent underground structure surrounding it.

    Damage to the BathTub is another undeniable proof that underground explosives were detonated.

    The extent of the damage is another proof of how powerful was the yield of the explosion.

    Only an underground nuclear explosion fits the bill.

    https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/archives/2002/03/21/workers-rush-to-repair-huge-hole-in-wtc-bathtub.NYC_20029

    • Thanks: annamaria
  208. Sparkon says:
    @Peripatetic Itch

    The nuclear engineers (and not just Khalezov) seem to think, however, that the open elevator shafts directed the force of the blast upwards in a spreading laser-like beam to protect the bath-tub and take the towers down top first.

    The only thing I can find in the literature is a statement that tunnels bored through solid rock are fairly resistant to damage from blasts, which should also apply to chimneys,

    Well, in the first place, tunnels bored through rock are one thing, elevator shafts entirely something else again, in terms of their relative strengths.

    How would you make that elevator shaft strong enough to withstand and channel the force of a nuclear blast all the way up to the top of the building, but then give way to that blast on its way down?

    How indeed would you make the blast force turn around at the top of the building, and head back downward?

    It would take a magic elevator shaft to be impervious to a nuclear blast one instant, then give way to it like paper mache the next, and a boomerang blast from magic nukes in the basements to destroy the Twin Towers from the top down.

    • Replies: @Peripatetic Itch
  209. skrik says:
    @Sparkon

    false dilemma

    No.

    Which part of ‘put up or shut up’ don’t you understand?

    Tip: It might be best to let the troll answer for itself.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  210. Anon[123] • Disclaimer says:

    Mossad’s execution of 9-11 should have been a wake up call.

    [MORE]

    You guys subscribed to the phony WMD and coyote planes dissapearing into the babylonian twin towers whilst your intuition should have kicked in and told you something is not right.
    9-11 should have been the litmus test for truth but you conveniently ignored it. You looked the other way due to cognitive dissonance.
    You followed Bush’s order to go on a spending spree with more credit card debt jacked up with high interest to feed the satanic cabal instead.
    With all these bogus wars on terror and non-ending hoaxes you have unwittingly supported the Zionist Satanic push for one world disorder.
    At this point, all you can do is repent for your sins and start fighting back the criminal enterprize who are in charge of orchestrating all these bogus war on terror, creating these monstrous, diabolical, sinister ISISraHELL with the help of al-CIA-da and MOSSAD.
    Alternate would be to sit back and enjoy bigger fireworks than 9-11 coming near you whilst they prepare greater IzraHELL for the coming of their Yahweh, The Anti-Christ dajjal who will globalize his reign of terror from Jerusalem.
    Either way buckle up for a roller coaster ride with some of these demonic, totally psychopathic, diabolical, sinister, pathological liars and corrupters of mother earth. You reap what you sow.

    There is a lie. Then there is a BIG LIE. Then there is 911. Santa Claus is beyond a LIE. Tel LIE vised 911 EvangeLIED are being taken for a ride by way of Deception to think Jesus Christ died for their Evils. Everyone shall have to account for deeds, either good or evil to enter Paradise or eternal abode in Hell fire.

    The infuriating thing about 9/11 and the multitude of lesser false flags which both preceded and followed it is that, although most Americans know it was as phoney as a three and a half dollar fed reserve note, everyone seems content to put up with the extremely phoney “war on terror” it was designed to create and which has already destroyed a hand full of countries in the world, caused the murder of upwards of two million people, mostly using U.S. military, and turned the U.S. into a ruthlessly insane police state wherein everyone is made to obey patently unlawful statutes in the name of “emergency” while the ruling elite has quit obeying any laws at all while gathering a massive military presence to cow the now restless and resentful public. – See more at:Christopher Bollyn: The Man Who Solved 9/11

  211. Sparkon says:
    @skrik

    Still wrong.

    Put up or shut up is not a logical argument, nor is it what you said to begin with:

    “Either offer us your integrated alternative [appropriately substantiated] or you have zero credibility.”

    That’s a false dilemma. As I said, your logic is weak, and now you’re trying to worm your way out of it.

    • Replies: @skrik
  212. @Sparkon

    Well, in the first place, tunnels bored through rock are one thing, elevator shafts entirely something else again, in terms of their relative strengths.

    How would you make that elevator shaft strong enough to withstand and channel the force of a nuclear blast all the way up to the top of the building, but then give way to that blast on its way down?

    How indeed would you make the blast force turn around at the top of the building, and head back downward?

    With respect, and as someone with a degree in physics, you are doing this ass-backwards. You have put your cart before the horse. You are basically repudiating a very specific theory without knowing what the theory is. More charitably you may just be assuming the blast comes from a standard fireball-generating detonation that destroys pretty much everything encompassed by the fireball and then the shock wave takes out everything else. I may be guessing here, but that is the only way I can see you would assume the “blast” needed to turn around at the top of the building and head back down. That would also explain why you think the elevator shaft needs to be something more than just a conduit to guide and direct a plasma pulse up through the center of the tower.

    Just from an empirical point of view (and I note your screed has no empirical references) it is clear that the WTC1 event started even before the 8:46 am “plane crash.” William Rodriguez, a janitor of 20 years experience there, was working in a sub-basement when he heard and felt a major explosion go off underneath him. The sprinkler system was activated and his co-worker Felipe David rushed in with skin hanging off his face and arms. Rodriquez only then heard and felt the crash many floors above him.
    https://needtoknow.news/2019/09/9-11-whistleblower-william-rodriguez-says-there-was-an-explosion-in-the-basement-before-the-plane-hit-building/

    Again cameras on board two helicopters exhibited the typical nuclear aberrations termed silverfish in the minutes before WTC1 began to fall. At the same time, cars parked near the towers began to burst into flames, attributed by many to EMP bursts. And seven to nine major explosions shook each of the towers in the several minutes before they fell.

    We have of course already noted the tremendous amount of energy involved in both the destruction of the towers and the hot spots underneath the towers lasting months. It is estimated the former took energy equivalent to at least that produced by the entire Eastern seaboard for the U.S. while the latter has been deemed equivalent to that of a multi-kiloton nuclear bomb.

    The German physicist Heinz Pommer has developed a model of a non-standard nuclear “fizzle” reactor that has at least the potential to explain many of the odd events of the WTC demolition. His model has rings of Uranium and Beryllium with a control rod that activates the reactor when plunged into place, if I understand him correctly. Water from the sprinkler system acts as the moderator, in WTC1&2, and the process takes an hour or so to go super-critical. It then creates a very high-temperature, high-pressure plasma which bursts upwards in two spreading waves, one through the elevator shaft, destroying the insides of the building with heat and x-rays. It then takes down the building as it explodes out through the gash created by the initial “plane” crash.

    The model for WTC7 apparently needs no water and takes out the interior columns by an ultra-rapid rusting process caused by heat and X-rays. The model is still in the hypothesis stage, of course, but it does fit many more of the observed features of the event than the nano-thermite hypothesis (which explains all of the above with a wave of the hand).

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  213. Otoh/Imho says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    Not so. The planes crashing into the Twin Towers was the fig-leaf, as it were, for the controlled demolition. See the testimony of janitor William Rodriguez (from wikipedia): “On September 11, Rodriguez told CNN that shortly before the plane hit the tower he was in the basement when:

    …we hear like a big rumble. Not like an impact, like a rumble, like moving furniture in a massive way. And all of sudden we hear another rumble, and a guy comes running, running into our office, and all of skin was off his body. All of the skin.”
    Or the Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth.

  214. skrik says:
    @Sparkon

    the @Peripatetic Itch troll has revealed itself to be a nuclear nutter à la Khalezov [what I suspected hence my Put up or shut up which got up your nose, too bad]; I will not argue with any nutter proposing ‘dustification’ [= unknown physics, probably totally unknowable] via nukes nor DEW nor whatever. Bye.

    PS “directed the force of the blast upwards in a spreading laser-like beam” Haw.

    Repeat: Tip to you ‘9/11 nukers:’ Get real – or get lost.

    • Replies: @Peripatetic Itch
  215. Alfred says:
    @Miro23

    There are so many trolls trying to uphold the “official” version. Here is a video that should convince everyone that governments never lie. </sarc

    • LOL: Peripatetic Itch
  216. Alfred says:
    @jsinton

    If your thesis is correct, it changes little.

    Why do they fill military sandbags with sand? Surely solid rocks are better? 🙂

    • Replies: @A123
  217. @skrik

    So, Mr. Skrik, it might surprise you to know I gave you quite a few passes in this thread for comments that made it most probable you have never set foot inside a college physics classroom. For instance, you left out the crucial word “only” in your statement of the Second Law of Thermodynamics: “Heat flows only from hot to cold”. Comment 141. (But at least you didn’t assert, like climate-change alarmists, that heat actually flows from cold to hot.) Similarly you had your alleged WTC demolition team absurdly putting your clam-shell charges on each end of box-column sections, apparently so you claim, to invert them from vertical to horizontal(!), but more likely to avoid the criticism that an unbalanced pushing charge would send them spinning, which did not happen. C84. Then you willfully misinterpreted Professor Woods DEW theory as destruction of matter, not dustification, and invoked conservation laws to rebut it, when her real problem was to hubristically assert that the massive amounts of energy needed were stolen from a nearby Atlantic hurricane.C84.

    I gave you the pass because you were smart enough to buy into the controlled demolition hypothesis, to see through the fake Flight 93 crash scene, and to cite a video (even though it must be 15 years old) by David Chandler, about thirteen times, who is one of the greats of the 9/11 truth movement.

    What I could not do was pass on your very insulting and patronizing attack on a fellow truther who obviously had a better handle on the energetics of the destruction than you. C34. You framed it as an application of Occam’s razor, but as I and Sparkon made it clear, that application was most disingenuous. You simply waved your hand to say that det-cord threaded into the floor-slab conduits could explain everything including the billowing pyroclastic white dust-clouds and scorched vehicles, even those happening before the collapse, I presume. C34. You seem not to understand that scientific argument involves something more than just linking isolated observations. Mechanisms are required. Mechanisms that are up to the job.

    And now, without answering a single question I put to you, you demand that I definitively prove the nuclear hypothesis, with full documentation. Nothing less will do, because your David Chandler video proves, to your satisfaction, that nano-thermite and shaped charges brought down the WTC. Even though Chandler never even mentioned thermite or shaped charges. I’m sure if I were even to meet this atrocious double standard, you would immediately demand I prove my qualifications as an expert witness. But your real aha moment came when you oh, so smartly “tricked” me into revealing myself as a 9/11 nuker:

    Tip to you ‘9/11 nukers:’ Get real – or get lost. C158.

    In short you have duly appointed yourself as the chief gatekeeper for all 9/11 discussion on this site. That you are the one in charge of the cancel culture around here. You don’t even have the decency to call me a troll to my face.

    • Replies: @skrik
  218. @skrik

    “directed the force of the blast upwards in a spreading laser-like beam” Haw.

    I’m guessing Professor Heinz Pommer’s PhD in physics puts your qualifications in that subject to shame. I’m even guessing my B.Sc. in the same subject, with a senior course in nuclear physics and a prize in thermodynamics, does the same. So maybe Put up or shut up yourself.

    I’m also guessing you’re a Johnny Come Lately to the 9/11 truth movement. I joined it 48 hours after the event when the list of hijackers wasn’t included in the passenger manifesto. How about you?

    What really needs to be explained is why are jerks like you so hostile to the nuclear-demolition hypothesis? Why is it so much more threatening than the thermite hypothesis. Let me suggest the reason is that it clearly takes more than a couple of years to plan and set up such an intricate plot. George W had of course only been president for 8 months and 3 weeks on 9/11. We know who had been in power before that. We even know who was in charge of the White House for the previous eight years. Hint: It wasn’t WJC. Think chortling psychopath.

    If that wee bit of information came out, you could have a real “October surprise.” Who are you voting for, Mr. Skrik?

  219. skrik says:
    @Peripatetic Itch

    OK; 1) you are a troll to your face. There; dunnit – happy now?

    Q: What is the 9/11 equivalent of ‘bats in the belfry?’

    A: Nukes in the basement.

    Here is the evidence that every troll claiming nukes under WTCs is a filthy+mad liar:

    http://www.princeton.edu/~ota/disk1/1989/8909/8909.PDF

    In layman/troll {or even in B.Sc.} terms, any nuke not buried deeply enough will result in an airburst/crater [did not happen], but if it is buried deeply enough, only a few dust-specks are raised on the surface. Hardly enough to obliterate a WTC tower. And no more silly talk of “upwards in a spreading laser-like beam,” OK? That’s pure Khalezov, the original 9/11 nuclear nutter. IIRC ‘dustify’ is the precise term deployed by both Khalezov and Mme Wood, another 9/11 nutter.

    Then, the very definition of a nuke is ‘a nuclear fission device’ [H-bombs use a fission trigger], Q: Where is the fallout [= fission products?] A: Not present, your honour! = No nukes, full-bloody stop! Der.

    2) You are a complete idiot [= bats in the belfry] for imagining that your convoluted hand-waving can constitute any sort of valid argument. Q: What is your aim? Suggested A: To make serious enquirers look like conspiracy nuts. You and your nukey-ilk are obviously attempting to bring ‘9/11 truth’ into disrespect. grrr

    PS I mention thermite/thermate/whatever as a possible adjunct, but mil.spec HE as the ‘driving force.’ Tip: Don’t try to put words in another’s mouth – projection? IF you’ve been ‘in the game’ since “48 hours after the event” looks like you are a ve-e-ery slow learner as well. Jerk yourself.

    • Replies: @Peripatetic Itch
  220. Sparkon says:
    @Peripatetic Itch

    your screed has no empirical reference

    Four short paragraphs hardly qualify as a screed. I don’t need any empirical references to back up my argument, which is based on sound logic, and not conjectures, or models.

    The German physicist Heinz Pommer has developed a model of a non-standard nuclear “fizzle” reactor that has at least the potential to explain many of the odd events of the WTC demolition

    Uh huh…a model…with potential. Gee.

    high-pressure plasma which bursts upwards in two spreading waves, one through the elevator shaft, destroying the insides of the building with heat and x-rays.

    You’re trying to have it both ways. The photos show the upper portions of the buildings being destroyed while the lower portions of the buildings stand undisturbed, as I have previously noted.

    Remember Occam’s razor, and my stipulation that the solution must account for all the observed characteristics.

    With respect, and as someone with a degree in physics, you are doing this ass-backwards.

    Doing what ass backwards? I put my argument in plain English. A model is not an empirical reference. Show me where an elevator shaft or something with a similar lightweight construction has contained and channeled a nuclear blast.

    The boom that Rodriguez heard and felt is not proof of a nuclear detonation, and please note he also claims to have heard the impact of a plane above him.

    • Replies: @Peripatetic Itch
  221. A123 says:
    @Alfred

    Why do they fill military sandbags with sand? Surely solid rocks are better?


    Your concept is badly off-point.

    Sandbags have nothing to do with an explosive threat. They are intended to slow and capture projectiles (bullets, shrapnel, etc.).

    Using solid rocks would be much worse because you would have:
    — Ricochet rather than capture.
    — Potential for holes, that would automatically self close when using Kevlar bags filled with sand.
    _____

    Land reclamation uses underground walls in a box pattern. The fill material inside the walls is compacted, but not structurally secured. Once a wall is breached that entire “box” of reclaimed ground is fatally compromised and easily craterable.

    Changes in water flow due to other projects had already weakened some of the wall structure associated with the oldest part of the port. This made them easy for the blast to break.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Alfred
  222. Alfred says:

    “Skriket” – the Scream. A Norwegian troll?

    • Replies: @skrik
  223. Alfred says:
    @A123

    Wrong.

    Sand in compression is as strong as its native rock. An explosion on the surface compresses the soil beneath it – and the soil pushes right back. Sand is almost incompressible. Sand can make an excellent foundation for a tall building. Building on clay is another matter.

    A bullet hitting a sandbag compresses the sand ahead of it and the sand blocks it and pushes back – because that was a compressive force.

    Please learn a little about physics and materials before offering your opinion. Trolling with no background knowledge is a waste of time. 🙂

    • Replies: @A123
  224. skrik says:
    @Alfred

    Munch recalled that he had been out for a walk at sunset when suddenly the setting sunlight turned the clouds “a blood red”. He sensed an “infinite scream passing through nature”.

    • Agree: Alfred
  225. A123 says:
    @Alfred


    Off-Point Again

    Please learn the scientific difference between:
    — Artificial “reclaimed” land
    — Natural geology

    Sand inside an artificial box structure is only strong if the box structure holds it in compression.

    The artificial, land reclamation “box” under al’Hezbollah Munitions Depot #12 failed. The sand poured out. The result is a large crater.

    You need to learn to accept constructive criticism when you are wrong. Deflecting with off-point irrelevance is ineffective, and it makes you appear weak & evasive.

    PEACE 😇

    • Troll: Alfred, annamaria
  226. @Sparkon

    Show me where an elevator shaft or something with a similar lightweight construction has contained and channeled a nuclear blast.

    That’s not quite what Professor Pommer is saying. He doesn’t need the shafts to contain the plasma except initially and a plasma is not a nuclear blast in the conventional sense of a fireball. He only needs to channel the plasma upwards to start. Once it is going in the right direction it will rapidly destroy the building from the inside out, including the elevator shafts. (No elevators or motors found in the wreckage–all pulverized). Do watch the video and read some of Pommer’s documentation.

    Uh huh…a model…with potential. Gee.

    Your sarcasm is misplaced. Unfortunately almost every area of modern science is riddled with their sometimes good but often malign influence. You rightly critique climate science. Models up to your neck. You seem more tolerant of corona-virus science. Models up to your neck. You fly on airplanes. Models up to your neck. Nuclear physics. Models up to your neck. Capiche? Same in 9/11 engineering.

    The boom that Rodriguez heard and felt is not proof of a nuclear detonation, and please note he also claims to have heard the impact of a plane above him.

    First, it’s not cricket to cite my point against me. I was the one who claimed significance for the fact he heard the crash after the explosion happened beneath him. Second it’s not fair to demand proof when it was you who overtly formulated your argument in terms of Occam’s razor. Yes, Pommer is claiming that the 8:45 am explosion was the event that set the control rod of the WTC1 reactor in place to start the nuclear fizzle reaction, and that the sprinkler system added the water to moderate (slow down) the neutrons, as required. That’s called theory formulation and elaboration. Unless you have a better explanation for how that explosion fits into the overall event as explained by whatever theory/model you have (which you are keeping very close to your chest), then your demand for proof is the hand-waving that keeps you from having to come up with an explanation. Proof, BTW, is a legal fiction. Never happens.

    You’re trying to have it both ways.

    Address your criticisms to Dr. Pommer. I’m just trying to explicate him enough for people to take an interest. I can’t say I am doing it that well but the general nuclear-destruction hypothesis remains viable on the energetics alone. If I have interpreted him correctly, however, it would seem his lower and wider cone is more of an EMP burst than a plasma pulse. By the way, most people are woefully ignorant of what a plasma actually is. It is considered to be the fourth state of matter and constitutes an entire sub-discipline of physics in itself.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
    , @Erebus
  227. @skrik

    Does seem like I got under your skin. Not much of substance here. Lots of ranting and of course your usual childish, insulting behavior substituting for argument.

    OK; 1) you are a troll to your face. There; dunnit – happy now?

    That felt so much better, didn’t it? Always better to say something out front than behind the other guy’s back. Now just put your head on Mommy’s shoulder and have a good cry.

    In layman/troll … terms, any nuke not buried deeply enough will result in an airburst/crater [did not happen]

    I checked out your reference long ago and answered it a previous comment. The reference did give a formula of very limited relevance, applying to fire-ball generating nukes only. That said, working through the formula gave a distance that was less than the height of the North Tower (1368 feet) for smaller kiloton ranges. But even if the plasma wave exited at the top, it would be thoroughly entrained with the pulverized remains of the destroyed structure. In other words you couldn’t see the difference.

    You so tactfully ask about radioactivity. This was answered in Pommer’s video, the one you were too snotty to watch, I mean. Jim Fetzer talks about it, a study from the U.S. Geological Survey. I had a paper copy of the study in 2011 and asked about it at the Toronto 9/11 hearings. Surely you’ve seen it. They do have it in the syllabus for standard training at Langley. You know, Limited Hangouts 101, 201 and 301.

    • Agree: Alfred
  228. Iris says:

    Photos of the 9/11 false flag terror attack which speak for themselves:

    The WTC7 Building standing unscathed, without any sign of “raging office fires” , after both North and South Towers had collapsed:

    A photo of the North Tower into which AA flight 11 allegedly crashed, with fire and damage orderly contained along a perfectly horizontal direction, and no trace of any fire in the lower floors that would have caused its collapse.

    A photo of the North Tower already reduced to dust even before having finished collapsing onto the ground.

    Throwing a crystal vase into the air, one would expect it to shatter upon hitting the ground, not mid-air. Yet, we are supposed to believe that the solid steel and sturdy concrete making the North Tower had been turned into fine dust even before hitting the ground. The cause and the effect happening the wrong way around.

    The had been dustified before collapsing. What can achieve such result is the extremely powerful pressure shockwave resulting from an underground nuclear explosion.

    • Thanks: Alfred, annamaria
    • Replies: @skrik
    , @Peripatetic Itch
  229. skrik says:

    The had been dustified before collapsing

    No nukes, no DEW; “dustified” is nothing more than hyperactive imagination, *not* physics.

  230. skrik says:
    @Iris

    What was dustified were the floor-slabs, 10cm concrete on steel-sheeting, via high-performance det-cord threaded through the cable-ducts. That explains the billowing white clouds and the high iron content microspheres in the dust, and little flooring in the WTC 1&2 rubble-piles. Photos exist of core-columns with dints from the shaped charges and welds torn off by the column-flipping action, the edges of the steel still sharp = nothing dustified there.

    My comments are based 100% on observation, 0% imagination. I bid all 9/11 nuke nutters “Good day!”

    • Troll: Iris, Alfred
  231. Sparkon says:
    @Peripatetic Itch

    That’s not quite what Professor Pommer is saying. He doesn’t need the shafts to contain the plasma except initially and a plasma is not a nuclear blast in the conventional sense of a fireball. He only needs to channel the plasma upwards to start.

    Sorry, it still takes a magic chimney, and I don’t believe in magic. Look again at that image I posted, and please recall my stipulation that the solution must account for all the observed characteristics of the problem.

    In your fancy, there’s a torrent of plasma shooting up the elevator shafts, but it doesn’t do anything to the building until it reaches the top, when suddenly the previously impervious elevator shaft is no longer indestructible, and the building starts turning itself inside out from the top down. It must be a dual purpose plasma, or something.

    As I’ve said, thermite and nukes in the basement are red herrings.

    As proof, note please there has been not a single response to my 700 word comment about the gold heist. Not even one word from anyone here, just the sounds of silence.

    • Replies: @Erebus
    , @Peripatetic Itch
  232. Erebus says:
    @Peripatetic Itch

    … a plasma is not a nuclear blast in the conventional sense of a fireball. He only needs to channel the plasma upwards to start.

    I believe it was the grand wazoo who introduced Pommer’s hypothesis in Kevin Barrett’s 9/11 and Jeffrey Epstein: Media Malfeasance on Steroids thread a year ago.

    As far as I know, it has not been gainsaid as the only working hypothesis that attempts to cover all the empirical bases we see in the demolition of the towers themselves without postulating some magic technology. I’m rather convinced it or some close variant which combines carefully planned placement and sequencing of conventional explosives will stand as the explanation of how the towers were brought down, and as a monument to the chutzpah of the perpetrators. Fake airplanes are easy-peasy. Nuclear driven plasma and super-heated gas jets

    Unfortunately, it suffers from the fact that very few people have the specialized training and knowledge required to critique his hypothesis in detail, or to explicate the mechanisms involved. They in turn depend utterly on government funding for their employment and wandering out of the Overton Window means instant, and permanent unemployment. The perfect crime. One hopes that some retired nuclear physicists weigh in on Pommer’s hypothesis and help him polish it.

    • Thanks: Peripatetic Itch
    • Replies: @Erebus
    , @Iris
  233. anon[184] • Disclaimer says:

    @Intelligent Dasein

    an imminent Muslim terrorist attack is not compatible with the idea that there was a controlled demolition

    Indeed. Therefore, the glaringly obvious controlled demolition of the TTs and Building 7 proves Arab (Muslim) terrorists could not possibly have been involved. Those involved could only have been American and Israeli terrorists.

    • Agree: Alfred
  234. Erebus says:
    @Erebus

    CORRECTION: “Nuclear driven plasma and super-heated gas jets aren’t.

  235. Erebus says:
    @Sparkon

    Sorry, it still takes a magic chimney, and I don’t believe in magic.

    That’s simply not true.

    I was once in a factory that used super-heated steam at very high temperature & pressure. A pinhole leak had developed and its general location could only be traced by observing that it condensed to visibility some meters away from the pinhole where it also went chaotically swirly. To imagine this, think of watching a column of smoke rising from a cigarette in still air. It goes (almost) straight up until it loses sufficient energy to go chaotic and breaks up into swirls, but in this case the “smoke” appears only at the end. One can look down from there to find the originating cigarette.

    On its way to that point, the high velocity steam had punched holes through several nearby cartons that were not significantly larger than the pinhole itself. The pinhole’s location was traced by drawing a bead through the holes. At that point some soapy water was all it took to nail the location precisely.

    Pommer’s mechanism depends on the same sort of phenomena. High velocity gas streams stay coherent until they don’t. The point at which his plume would go chaotic is the point where it enters a radically different environment, namely where a floor has just been “vaporized”. IOW, the swirly chaos would follow the vaporizing floors down until almost all of it had gone chaotically swirly.

    His working hypothesis, or something like it, remains the most plausible and comprehensive of anything I’ve heard. I am unable to judge his nuclear calculations and claims, but a little experience with high pressures and temperatures opens one’s mind to the general scenario he’s postulating.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  236. Sparkon says:
    @Erebus

    I still don’t believe in magic, and that’s 100% true.

    Show me a real world demonstration of Pommer’s conjecture using a real plasma channeled for 1000 feet, not cigarette smoke.

    Tons of jibber jabber about what kind of firecracker blew up the Twin Towers, but still not a even a single word in response to my comment about the big gold heist.

    • Replies: @Erebus
  237. @Sparkon

    In your fancy, there’s a torrent of plasma shooting up the elevator shafts, but it doesn’t do anything to the building until it reaches the top

    Seriously, my fancy. I am just trying my best to explicate Pommer’s hypothesis. Labeling it “my fancy” is just a hand wave serving to absolve you from having to watch Pommer’s video, to work through what he is saying for yourself and to evaluate it honestly from an Occam’s-razor viewpoint or other accepted criteria.

    You continue to misinterpret (willfully, I think) what I said, which is that the purpose of the elevator shafts is to initially collimate the beam of plasma and project it upwards. Once launched in that direction it will continue so by inertia and Newton’s First Law (a body will keep moving in a straight line at constant speed unless it is acted upon by a force). No beam can however stay perfectly collimated (and this would not have been perfectly collimated to begin with). Even laser beams spread out the farther they travel. That spread by itself means the destruction will have differential effects by height that will evade anti-empiricists who think any effect can be reasoned out with a thought or two, or dismissed with a wave of the hand (what happens when mathematicians take over physics).

    The plasma beam is of course at an incredibly high temperature and also incredibly erosive because of x-rays, ionization, or whatever. It will melt and erode the building from the bottom to the top and from the inside out as soon as it makes contact. No waiting until it gets to the top. After some short interval all you have is an thin empty shell ready to collapse on it’s own. The actual collapse, as we saw it from the outside, happens starting at the “plane” gash due to edge effects relating perhaps to turbulence as the plasma beam hits the bottom side of the upper 14- or 30-story undamaged section of the towers. These can of course be modeled and probably were modeled before the plan was put in place.

    I stand ready to be corrected on any of these details. Dr. Pommer has a falsifiable hypothesis and he stands ready to have the tests done to either falsify it or corroborate it. Consider it an Eddington moment.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  238. @Iris

    we are supposed to believe that the solid steel and sturdy concrete making the North Tower had been turned into fine dust even before hitting the ground.

    It is indeed the ultimate magic trick. Things going on behind the curtain that defy imagination, perhaps because we cannot believe in such absolute evil. Think about how much energy is required to pulverize concrete into dust-sized particles. I have taken a sledge hammer to cement sidewalk and managed to break it into a few large pieces, but with back-breaking effort. I have also tried to pulverize something similar in a mortar and pestle, only to give it up as a bad job.

    As a young child I had the misfortune to be caught smack in the middle of a class-four tornado, coming within inches of death. Buildings were collapsing all around me. After the initial tossing about, I came to in the middle of a sidewalk, only to look up and watch a full-size, plate-glass, restaurant window topple sideways out of its frame a few meters away from me. As it fell it progressively broke up into thousands of pebble-sized pieces, all of which swooped over my head in a cloud of glass. No dust however. All that energy and no metal doing the same thing. My bicycle’s frame was recovered in one piece twenty miles downriver.

    Your first picture shows one of the pyroclastic cloud segments that emerged from underground separately from the main part coming from the tower. Your last picture clearly shows a fountain of debris from the collapse front shooting upwards at an approximately 45° angle. That is also pretty magical if one assumes it to be a classical controlled demolition. One should only get a coordinated upwards component of motion if there is some major force with a vertical component to begin with.

    Thanks

    • Replies: @Iris
  239. Erebus says:
    @Sparkon

    Show me a real world demonstration of Pommer’s conjecture using a real plasma channeled for 1000 feet…

    If one can be channelled for 1′, one can be channelled for 1000′ given enough energy. Demonstrating a channelled 1000′-er would of course require a LOT of energy. Like, we’re talking nuclear here bubba.

    As for your gold fixation, the gold may well represent one of the motives, but I can’t see that it relates to the means. You seem to rely on the Justice Halifax site for your info. I wouldn’t.

    Speaking of magic, what you haven’t addressed (so far as I can tell) are the thoroughly measured and documented hotspots. Whatever means you think were used to bring down the towers, the hotspots are one of the few fully documented phenomena you’ll have to account for. Planes/no planes, thermite (nano or micro), nuclear “lady fingers”, and whatever else you care to throw in to your narrative, the hotspots demand an explanation. The gold heist can be ignored as tangential, the hotspots can’t. They’re a fundamental component of that day’s events.

  240. Sparkon says:
    @Peripatetic Itch

    the purpose of the elevator shafts is to initially collimate the beam of plasma and project it upwards. Once launched in that direction

    […]

    The plasma beam is of course at an incredibly high temperature and also incredibly erosive because of x-rays, ionization, or whatever. It will melt and erode the building from the bottom to the top and from the inside out as soon as it makes contact.

    Perhaps, but as I’ve said, there is no sign of anything like that happening in the available videos and photographs. See the one I posted here:

    https://www.unz.com/pescobar/from-9-11-to-the-great-reset/#comment-4165232

    All the imagery shows the lower parts of the Twin Towers below the zones of destruction entirely undisturbed by anything, let alone an expanding cloud of plasma melting and eroding the building from the bottom to the top and inside out.

    So it’s a rather serious flaw in your argument. And there are others, but this will be my final comment about the magic plasma shaft.

    • Replies: @Peripatetic Itch
  241. Iris says:
    @Erebus

    The gold heist can be ignored as tangential, the hotspots can’t. They’re a fundamental component of that day’s events.

    Amen to that. The 4 months-lasting hot spots alone, because of the sheer gigantic amount of thermal energy they involved, suffice to solve the riddle of 9/11.

    The WTC released an amount of energy at a minimum in the order of the monthly production of a 900 MVA nuclear reactor: no other possible energy carriers can match nuclear fuel.

    The WTC was demolished by 3 underground nuclear detonations. It is terrifying, but it is the only explanation a scientific mind can accept.

  242. Iris says:
    @Erebus

    One hopes that some retired nuclear physicists weigh in on Pommer’s hypothesis and help him polish it

    The work of providing sound, scientific evidence of what actually happened at the WTC has already been brilliantly completed by French Physics academic Pr Francois Roby:

    https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/hal-02004696v2/document

    Pr Roby lost his tenure at the Université de Pau as a consequence, for reason of “anti-Semitism”.
    His demonstration is elegant, simple and limpid and can be replicated by any Physics students, establishing forever 9/11 as the most transparent false flag of all times.

    Heinz Pommer is sincere and well-intentioned; he has done a fantastic job uncovering, in Europe, the truth about the nuclear demolition of the WTC. However, his digressions about “plasma fountains” and the like are just baseless suppositions that do not help getting to the truth.

    There is no need to make far-fetched hypothesis about underground nuclear detonations’ patterns: they have been experimented in real-life trials and amply documented in nuclear engineering literature.

    • Replies: @Peripatetic Itch
  243. @Sparkon

    All the imagery shows the lower parts of the Twin Towers below the zones of destruction entirely undisturbed by anything

    Curious indeed, when nano-thermite theorists and even truthers in general are constantly pointing out the high-pressure squib ejections well below the zone of active destruction and the river of molten metal emanating from the building even before the start of the collapse.

    Did witnesses as well not speak of the building shaking and the ground-level atrium collapsing?

  244. @Erebus

    In support of your statement:

    If one can be channelled for 1′, one can be channelled for 1000′ given enough energy.

    I give you this, from The Fundamentals of Plasma Physics by Paul M. Bellan

    plasmas have the remarkable property of being extremely scalable;
    i.e., the same qualitative phenomena often occur in plasmas differing by many orders of
    magnitude.

    https://www.iaa.csic.es/~dani/ebooks/State%20of%20Matter/Fundamentals%20Of%20Plasma%20Physics%20-%20Paul%20M.%20Bellan.pdf

    Proving once again physics works best as an empirical science.

  245. Sparkon says:
    @Erebus

    If one can be channelled for 1′, one can be channelled for 1000′ given enough energy.

    Sure it can, provided one has a magic plasma shaft.

    You seem to rely on the Justice Halifax site for your info. I wouldn’t.

    You seem to have missed the first four citations I provided in my comment #214 are from, respectively, The Los Angeles Times, Invest Offshore, The New York Times, and CNN, before I cited the 911 Justice Halifax page, so you are wrong on that point too.

    https://www.unz.com/pescobar/from-9-11-to-the-great-reset/#comment-4163304

    As far as fixations go, the record shows virtually all the keyboard diarrhea here has been about nukes in the basement, magic chimneys, raging plasmas reduced to squibs, now you’ve brought up the alleged hot spots, but no citation, yet you’ve got the temerity to say I’m the one with the fixation?

    Give me a freaking break!

    • Replies: @Erebus
  246. Iris says:
    @Peripatetic Itch

    One should only get a coordinated upwards component of motion if there is some major force with a vertical component to begin with.

    Thanks for your reflections. I see where you are coming from with regard to a hypothetical vertical component projecting matter upwards , but IMHO such force was not at play in the case of the North Tower collapsing.

    The materials making the Tower had been finely dustified. When a particle becomes too light relative to its surface, its weight, and therefore gravity, becomes negligible compared to the broad hydrodynamic forces present and to the laws of momentum conservation. Possibly, stuff was projected upwards because other stuff suddenly collapsed (was projected downwards), in a way that on balance the overall momentum of the Tower remained zero.

    One of the most striking and revealing features of 9/11 is the dustification of concrete and steel into particles so fine that they took a long time to deposit on the ground. Turning steel into dust particules normally only happens through abrasion. WTC was the siege of a phenomenon never seen before.

    The Twin Towers were each shattered by shockwaves generated by underground nuclear explosion. Such shockwaves have an extremely sharp wavefront, compared to chemical explosions, meaning that they include much higher-frequency waves, which carry superior levels of energy , and were able to dustify steel.

    • Replies: @Erebus
    , @Peripatetic Itch
  247. Erebus says:
    @Sparkon

    Look, 9/11 was many things, including but not limited to a gold heist, stock-market and insurance fraud, and many other criminal acts that have surfaced the years. To my mind, none of them can tell us much about the mechanisms used to actually bring the towers down. Sure, they add interesting details to the overall forensic picture and speak to a confluence of criminal motives but are otherwise tangential to a discussion about means.

    … you’ve brought up the alleged hot spots, but no citation…

    Here ya go, though as a motivated 9/11 truther I’m sure you’re already familiar with these and others and are simply being obtuse and/or disingenuous.
    [20] Earth Data International NewYork State, Office for Technology. Aerial views and maps of the WTC -thermal imagery, 2001.
    http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/911/911-maps.html [cited 2017-03-08].
    [21] Charles K. Huyck and Beverley J.Adams. Emergency response in the wake of the World Trade Center attack: The remote sensing perspective. Technical report, Multidisciplinary Center for Earthquake Engineering Research,June 2002.
    http://mceer.buffalo.edu/publications/wtc/02-SP05-screen.pdf.
    [22] A. Dreger. Sources related to exceptionally high temperatures, and/or to persistent heat at Ground Zero; disinformation regarding the phenomena of “molten steel”/ exceptionally high temperatures/ persistent heat at ground zero; pre-collapse pressure pulses, 2008.
    http://911research.wtc7.net/papers/dreger/GroundZeroHeat2008_07_10.pdf.
    [23] Images of the World Trade Center site show thermal hot spots on September 16 and 23, 2001.
    https://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2001/ofr-01-0429/thermal.r09.html

    Straight out of Roby’s paper, which you must surely also be familiar with as you spent considerable energy (:-)) debating it a year ago. The reality is that the hotspots are probably the most publicly/scientifically documented feature of the 9/11 demolition. One of the very few features we have hard numbers on. Any hypothesis as to the means must account for them, or it necessarily falls wide of the mark.

    Roby goes on to calculate the size of the original energy source(s) using simple, widely accepted calculations and presents his case in highly readable form. Only the results are surprising. The energy sources had to have been huge – as in nuclear HUGE. Until and unless you can show that you’ve read his paper (cited by Iris @#251) and understood it, there’s little to discuss.

    • Agree: Alfred
    • Replies: @Sparkon
  248. Erebus says:
    @Iris

    Let this serve to address your #251, though obliquely.

    … (Pommer’s) digressions about “plasma fountains” and the like are just baseless suppositions that do not help getting to the truth.

    and…

    The Twin Towers were each shattered by shockwaves generated by underground nuclear explosion. Such shockwaves have an extremely sharp wavefront, compared to chemical explosions, meaning that they include much higher-frequency waves, which carry superior levels of energy , and were able to dustify steel.

    Both Pommer’s and Roby’s working hypotheses require additional energy inputs at specific locations and times to direct the demolition in accordance with what we saw. Pommer explicitly mentions such, but Roby doesn’t though I can’t imagine his working without them.

    Pommer’s is the simpler one in 2 primary senses:

    1. It does not require a full-on detonation. Rather, it’s somewhere between a meltdown and a blast. A full-on detonation embodies far higher risks of catastrophic failure than a quasi-meltdown/blast.
    If I understand him, Roby postulates that the blast’s extraordinarily energetic shockwave travelling through the structure brought it to a quasi-metastable state and eventually collapsed it.
    Given the non-homogeneity of the buildings’ construction, the discontinuities where the columns changed wall thickness, at the very large number of riveted/bolted/welded connections and the discontinuities at the interface of different materials (concrete-steel-gypsum board-glass-etc) would necessarily reflect the shockwave in millions of unpredictable patterns that would (I think) make it all but impossible to bring the structure to a uniformly quasi-metastable state from a single point underground with a high level of confidence.
    A quasi-metastable state, moreover, where the structure is consistently weakest where the load is lowest and falls consistently to next weaker point floor by floor as it collapses seems to me doubly impossible. As I can’t imagine such a state, it’s here that additional explosives would have to have been placed to push the quasi-metastable structure over the edge in sequence.
    However, any large equipment such as elevator cars, HVAC eqpt, mechanized filing systems, mainframe computers, etc that are not hardpoint attached to the structure would be largely immune both to the original shockwave and to the “helper” blasts, so they should have been visible in the debris. AFAIK, none were found. That’s a problem. In fact, other than tons of paper documents, very little was found.
    Another problem with Roby’s mechanism is that it doesn’t account for other anomalies such as the burning cars, the super rustification, the camera interference, and others.

    A basic tenet of civil engineering is that columns fail from the bottom (point of highest load), never from the top (point of least load). Metastability, rise times, etc notwithstanding, I can’t get my head around 100s of columns failing from the top in choreographed sequence. Had we seen the opposite, the structure giving way from the bottom up, I’d give Roby the credit for having proven that it was a fully nuclear demolition. As it is, it seems to fly in the face of everything I’ve ever encountered.

    2. Given that the towers dustified in near-identical sequence from the top down, whatever destroyed them included a mechanism whereby the energy was contained, directed and then released near the top of the structure, AND (importantly) the release point followed the moving top of the structure as it proceeded to the ground.
    That could of course be done by conventional HE as with Roby above, but would require an enormous clandestine effort to set up and would fail to account for the many “side-effects” we saw.

    Pommer’s short lived “plasma needle” followed by a continuous jet of high-velocity, super-heated gas does account for most of what we saw. That is, if the destructive mechanisms he postulates can actually be manifested from the nuclear reaction he posits, his is the more attractive hypothesis. The destruction will necessarily proceed from the top down, will obliterate everything whether attached to the structure or not, and can even account for some of the corollary effects such as camera interference and cars self-immolating.
    Unfortunately, while I can see my way to how they would be capable of doing the job at the mechanical level, I have no way to judge whether his mechanisms can realistically be generated at the nuclear level. From what I’ve seen of his rather sketchy presentations, they don’t lend one a high level of confidence that he’s done the heavy lifting required to explicate his hypothesis in its full form.

    In the absence of such, I remain in a state of hopeful anticipation rather than any sort of certainty regarding Pommer, but I do think he’s on to something.

    • Replies: @Peripatetic Itch
  249. @Getaclue

    . . . there would be NO “modern” China without D.X.?
    “China initially had a soviet-style
    40:48 economy but in 1978 a new leader came to
    40:53 power in China Deng Xiaoping and he
    40:56 analyzed the situation and he concluded
    40:58 that the Soviet system is doomed to
    41:01 failure and that’s of course dangerous
    41:04 he concluded for you know for the
    41:08 country and it’s better to abandon this
    41:10 system and instead he looked at other
    41:14 countries that had a more successful
    41:16 monetary system such as Japan and
    41:19 Germany and the US and he concluded well
    41:23 we need to decentralize banking and so
    41:26 when he came to power 1978 what what was
    41:28 the key one of the key things he
    41:30 introduced was he found it thousands of
    41:34 banks thousands of new banks local banks
    41:36 small banks regional banks specialized
    41:40 banks all across China and the rest is
    41:43 history that’s how you get high economic
    41:44 growth “
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=OdYmdKUiQNw&feature=emb_logo

    I don’t think D.R. was responsible for this?

  250. @Iris

    Pr Roby lost his tenure at the Université de Pau as a consequence, for reason of “anti-Semitism”.
    His demonstration is elegant, simple and limpid and can be replicated by any Physics students, establishing forever 9/11 as the most transparent false flag of all times.

    Heinz Pommer is sincere and well-intentioned; he has done a fantastic job uncovering, in Europe, the truth about the nuclear demolition of the WTC. However, his digressions about “plasma fountains” and the like are just baseless suppositions that do not help getting to the truth.

    Having just finished reading Professor Roby’s paper, I agree it is a tour de force in demonstrating that the energy in the three WTC hot spots requires a nuclear device of perhaps 80 kilotons each. I am less convinced as to his specific proposals about how this was achieved. First it seems to me that such a powerful explosion from underneath would tend to topple the towers from the base, but there seems to have been no hint even of any instabilities before they fell. Then it would seem that such a blast would undermine adjacent buildings as well. However none of those outside the WTC complex itself seem to have suffered damage inconsistent with falling debris. Then it would seem such a blast would rubblize the base rock sufficiently as to make impossible the building of a replacement tower. And finally, as Roby admits, the seismic waves generated that day were too small, more consistent with a micronuke than with 80 kilotons.

    I disagree with your comment about Professor Pommer but will not comment further except to say his model avoids the above problems by postulating a localized fizzle reactor device, meaning incomplete “combustion” of the nuclear fuel, which would leave most of it in the ground. Most informed people know that the main technical problem with nuclear bombs is their tendency to fizzle if the detonator is faulty.

    As the following Amazon notation says, Pommer and Roby actually collaborated on the model we have been ascribing to Pommer. That would suggest they have (or now have) no major disagreements. I understand that this does not exactly fit with Roby’s comments in his paper, but suggest that perhaps his paper may have actually been written some years ago and that they have since come to a meeting of the minds. Perhaps you can clear this little conundrum up.

    The Ground Zero Model Paperback – June 14, 2020
    by Mr. Heinz Pommer (Author), Dr. François Roby (Author), & 3 more

    • Replies: @Erebus
    , @Iris
  251. @Erebus

    I quite agree. Good analysis. It is of course always easier to define the general nature of the required mechanism than the specifics. Your opponents will always point to the weaknesses in the specifics and portray them as objections to the generality.

    I am rather confidant that Pommer’s hypothetical fizzle reactor is actually feasible. Certainly badly built nuclear bombs do tend to go fizzle, producing a small fraction of their explosive power. Badly built or malfunctioning nuclear reactors also tend to go super-critical. Remember the disaster at Fukushima for instance. That’s why they have huge containment domes over them. Nuclear engineers could never have improved on these things if they didn’t figure out what caused them to fail. Should be easy to design one for purpose.

    One small non-material quibble. You say:

    A basic tenet of civil engineering is that columns fail from the bottom (point of highest load), never from the top (point of least load).

    I can see that for columns of constant thickness. The Twin Tower columns were graduated in thickness, however, being much thinner at the top than at the bottom. That may change things.

    • Replies: @Erebus
  252. Erebus says:
    @Peripatetic Itch

    … Pommer and Roby actually collaborated on the model we have been ascribing to Pommer.

    Thanks for that. Very heartening to see that people at that level of expertise are working together and converging on a solution.

    Having read their Abstract, however I worry that the authors are wandering off the rails. It’s one thing to present the maths and prove a thesis, it’s quite another to wander into moral polemics which is where they seem to have headed. Yeah, it was a crime on many levels, but qua Physicists, the authors aren’t exceptionally qualified to tackle great questions like

    … as simple as the physics might turn out to be, more puzzling and complex is the mindset of the perpetrators, which we must also grasp and recognize.

    Would that a Nietzsche had joined the group to contribute his insights into mindsets. Though the book would have doubtless grown into a Zarathustra, at least the topic would have gotten a fair shake. Without a Nietzsche on staff, I fear the Physicists may have made a hash of it and so undermined their message.

    If you’re interested, the Abstract is below.

    [MORE]

    Abstract
    This book is an invitation to uncover and decode the lies of 9/11, both the physics and the demonic conceptions and machinations behind it which led to the crime of the century. The Ground Zero Model (GZM) presented here assumes a nuclear destruction process of the World Trade Center. Hitherto any nuclear hypothesis on 9/11 has been violently attacked by state agents and the “public common sense” (which we call “the trained mind” in this book). However, the authors provide not only a hypothesis, a model, but they also reveal the “9/11 Nuclear Fingerprint” left behind by the perpetrators, likely to their horror: an electromagnetic signal readable like a barcode scan to those who understand the physics behind it. We wrote this book with the intention of providing the broad public with the basic knowledge for understanding the true monstrosity of the 9/11 war-crime against America. However, as simple as the physics might turn out to be, more puzzling and complex is the mindset of the perpetrators, which we must also grasp and recognize. So, in addition to the physical theories and basic mathematical equations for understanding the destructive mechanisms of the World Trade Center (both the Twin Towers and Building 7) we touch upon the most forbidden topics with this book: the combination of supreme intelligence and the infantile belief in the all-powerful conception of evil as a legitimate force. The reader will understand that the worship of evil and the worship of Mammon is not only a the­oretical and figurative conception for some, but in fact real for the powerful. We do not provide names, but we are confident that when arriving at the end of this book any reader will know which group it is that bows to and leads the death cult of Money. Thinking positively, this book is a step towards liberty, starting playfully with a hypothesis. In the long run – should this hyothesis turn out to be true – it will create an outcry for justice. Nonethe­less, as important as justice might be, the author’s intention is not to “bring” justice or to identify the perpetrators, but rather to help [to] free the human mind. At first, this easy-to-read book might seem a challenge to American physicists, researchers and investigators. We point out that the “challenge” here is the mere thought of the crimes’ enormous scale. The physics behind it is simple. This book must also be understood as a call for the universities to prove or disprove the Ground Zero Model (GZM). On the university level, this future task should be simple. The underlaying dynamics can be solved by either using differential equations or by building a model based on finite element analysis (FEA), which is good for solving any given physical phenomenon. We are confident that step by step – and with the help of the still to be liberated universities – we can collectively break the spell and leave the lie behind, throwing it finally on the dungheap of follies of human history. The old and still deeply rooted public belief in the 9/11 state lie is a prison in itself. Layer by layer, this book reveals the structure of the lie, its method and character. And so cautiously – again step by step – the reader is invited to leave the prison cell. He or she will then soon recognize that this is only the beginning. In finishing we would like to point out that the real journey to truth must be undertaken by the reader himself. We invite and encourage everyone to do so. The Ground Zero Model is available in soft and hard cover, full color, Barnes & Noble, $18.95 or on Amazon as an ePub for Kindle and the Fire Tablet (includes audio and video) for $2.99, titled “The Oligarchs Nuclear War Games: The Ground Zero Model 2nd Edition. Barnes & Noble: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-ground-zero-model-heinz-pommer/1137150656?ean=9781663524201 Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Oligarchs-Nuclear-Games-Ground-Model-ebook/dp/B08BP683F2/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&qid=1594344206&refinements=p_27%3ADavid+François&s=digital-text&sr=1-2

    • Replies: @Peripatetic Itch
  253. @Iris

    The materials making the Tower had been finely dustified. When a particle becomes too light relative to its surface, its weight, and therefore gravity, becomes negligible compared to the broad hydrodynamic forces present and to the laws of momentum conservation. Possibly, stuff was projected upwards because other stuff suddenly collapsed (was projected downwards), in a way that on balance the overall momentum of the Tower remained zero.

    Uh, no. First, conservation of momentum doesn’t help here because other forces suddenly came into play, chiefly the explosive force and the force of gravity. Both these generate increased momentum without any way to measure or predict the compensating decreases elsewhere, in the earth, for instance. Not easy to define a closed system. Multi-body systems are notoriously intractable. Better to try to explain the fountains from a phenomenological viewpoint.

    Second, while much of the towers were in fact dustified, a large part of them were pulverized into larger particulates. The fountains can be seen to fall only slightly slower than the buildings themselves, indicating their weight was not negligible compared to the hydrodynamic forces holding them up. The huge pyroclastic dust clouds only billowed up after the towers hit the ground

    Third, the fountains displayed the classic shape of a ballistic parabola, suggesting that they were shot up at a 45 degree angle and were coming down in symmetric fashion. An air current does not carry a falling object upwards until it reaches a speed of 180 km per hour.

    http://www.911history.de/aaannxyz_ch06_en.html#autoid1026636/

  254. Erebus says:
    @Peripatetic Itch

    I can see that for columns of constant thickness. The Twin Tower columns were graduated in thickness, however, being much thinner at the top than at the bottom.

    Quibbling right back atchya…

    Columns are almost always tapered, a principle understood by the architects of the ancient columns of Athens. My point was that a properly engineered column will always be able to support its load so long as it stays “in column” (namely, in compression). At the bottom, the column carries the load of its own upper reaches, as well as the load those upper reaches are supporting. Any variations in the load, then is always felt at the bottom, though not always at the top.

    It goes without saying that a column that’s been relieved of its topmost load should fail at the point of relief is absurd.

  255. @Erebus

    I did read their abstract and had much the same reaction as you. I am going to give them a bit of a pass because they seemed so far to have been able to keep their moral judgments separate from their science. You must admit it’s been extremely hard for anyone to stay morally neutral about 9/11. When it happened, practically everyone in the world was eager to rush into Afghanistan to root out that evil bin Laden on but the flimsiest of evidence.

    What I found equally curious is their suggestion that the nuclear devices may have been implanted in the ground when the WTC was first built. I found that rather bizarre and wondered if they did it in an effort keep from getting offed by TPTB.

    • Replies: @Erebus
  256. Sparkon says:
    @Erebus

    Look, 9/11 was many things, including but not limited to a gold heist, stock-market and insurance fraud, and many other criminal acts that have surfaced the years. To my mind, none of them can tell us much about the mechanisms used to actually bring the towers down. Sure, they add interesting details to the overall forensic picture and speak to a confluence of criminal motives but are otherwise tangential to a discussion about means.

    But you are focused here entirely on just one of the possible means — nukes in the basement — to the exclusion of all else. Is it a filibuster yet?

    Unz Review writers and commenters have shown a complete and inexplicable lack of interest or curiosity about the apparent big gold heist on 9/11, as if it were mental kryptonite for them, or something, i.e. that which will not be discussed.

    Anyway, the hot spots prove nothing beyond the fact that there were fires burning beneath or within the rubble of the WTC in the days after 9/11, and as the images at the USGS link show, the hot spots were much reduced and had cooled considerably by Sept. 23, 2001:

    Analysis of the data indicates temperatures greater than 800°F. Over 3 dozen hot spots appear in the core zone. By September 23, only 4, or possibly 5, hot spots are apparent, with temperatures cooler than those on September 16.

    — USGS

    Researchers are still finding unevenly distributed radiation hot spots around Chernobyl. At Fukushima, millions of gallons of contaminated water are being stored on site that were used in an attempt to cool the coriums from the triple meltdown, which could have generated temperatures as high as 4,350°F. Now high level radiation hot spots have been found in Tokyo near the site of the planned Olympic games.

    How about at the World Trade Center? You claim the perpetrators blew apart the WTC with blasts from nukes in the basement you call “nuclear HUGE,” but where are the massive radiation hot spots such an event would produce? Already by Sept. 23, the thermal hot spots had virtually disappeared, and there were only a few small ones remaining.

    However, there are certainly indications that some kind of exotic technology was used to destroy the Twin Towers. Recall that the Deutsche Bank building across the street from WTC 2 was condemned because of contamination by toxic dust, and the building was finally dismantled 10 years later, laboriously, from the top down.

    The photos and videos tell me that the Twin Towers were destroyed from the top down, so if you must have nukes, why not start upstairs?

    Recall that some of FDNY firemen were saying they heard: “Boom, boom, boom, boom.” Does a nuke in the basement make multiple booms?

    • “…we originally had thought there was like an internal detonation explosives because it went in succession, boom, boom, boom, boom, and then the tower came down.”– Cachia

    • “You see three explosions and then the whole thing coming down” — Campagna

    • “there were about ten explosions” — Carlsen

    • “I heard an explosion from up, from up above” — Charles

    • “I heard a loud roar, “boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom,” and it was getting louder.” –Citarelli

    Read my entire Top 25 FDNY eyewitness accounts here:

    https://www.unz.com/audio/kbarrett_ph-d-structural-engineer-ibrahim-soudy-10000-to-anyone-who-can-refute-new-u-of-alaska-wtc-7-study/#comment-3486482

    Note that my comment back on October 5, 2019 about the eyewitness accounts from FDNY firemen provoked your darling Iris to call me Hasbara, the same routine she pulled when I shot down all of her relentless promotion of BS artist James Files.

    Maybe for laughs I’ll dig up Khalezov’s original narrative about 9/11. It’s a doozy.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
    , @Erebus
  257. Iris says:
    @Peripatetic Itch

    As the following Amazon notation says, Pommer and Roby actually collaborated on the model we have been ascribing to Pommer. That would suggest they have (or now have) no major disagreements

    There is an important nuance, understandably not picked up by people less familiar with European intellectual “dissidents” . Heinz Pommer, in his recently released book “The Ground Zero Model” By Physicist Heinz Pommer and Colleagues, added the following to the title:

    Special Thanks to Physicists Andreas Pieper, Dr. David Madlener and Dr. François Roby with the Assistance of works by Dimitri Khalezov, William Tahil and Dr. Edward Teller

    This does not mean that Pr Francois Roby endorses Pommer’s methodologies and thesis: Roby did not sign any chapter in Pommer’s book, unlike other contributors.

    Roby and Pommer are known to have a respectful and friendly relationship, and to help each other. It is obvious that Roby’s scrutiny and thinking has greatly influenced and modified Pommer’s, who in his book has now dropped the “plasma fountain” fanciful speculations.

    Here is what Pr Roby said about Heinz Pommer in his article:

    Some other people, like a German citizen named Heinz Pommer, who has also a background in nuclear energy (as a graduate physicist), have resumed and developed the idea of underground nuclear devices as an attempt to fully explain the strange phenomena that occurred at the World Trade Center on September 11, 2001.

    Heinz Pommer has made a great deal of effort making his work public for a large audience, and maintains currently two websites, one in German and in English [69], and one in German, Russian and English [70].

    We consider that these websites contain a lot of useful information, but also some speculative arguments that do not fulfill the criteria of scientific research, which should proceed by elimination rather than by accumulation.

    However, we are extremely grateful to Heinz Pommer for stimulating discussions and we do acknowledge that his attitude is at the same time open-minded, benevolent and brave. Were only a small fraction of professional physicists in the world be able of such a “Mut zur Wahrheit44” attitude, would the 9/11 mystery be entirely solved and would physics as a science gain enormous sympathy and respect.

    Pr Roby maintains an excellent website on current affairs; he didn’t even mention the launch of Pommer’s new book in the 9/11 section:
    https://aitia.fr/erd/mot-cle/11-septembre/

    Pr Roby and Heinz Pommer are simply nowhere in the same academic league. The former is a first class scientist who has studied and taught in elite higher education institutions.

    On the commemoration day of 9/11 this year, Pr Roby wrote an open letter to his only peer among European dissident intellectuals, Belgian physicist Jean Bricmont.
    Bricmont is a Professor emeritus in theoretical Physics, member of the Belgian Royal Academy of Science, spouse to the wonderful Diana Johnstone, long-time friend of Noam Chomsky and a fine critic of Western schizophrenic, Zionist-worshiping “democracies”.
    Pr Roby’s reminded him of physicists’ responsibility in the cover up of 9/11 and betrayal of the public, asking him to weigh in the balance and provide a learned review of his WTC nuclear demolition article.

    https://aitia.fr/erd/lettre-ouverte-a-jean-bricmont/

    • Thanks: Erebus, Miro23
  258. Erebus says:
    @Peripatetic Itch

    I am going to give them a bit of a pass because they seemed so far to have been able to keep their moral judgments separate from their science.

    Well, they put them in the same book. That’s much too close a proximity for my tastes. You can talk about that sort of thing when pressed by (say) an interviewer, but it dilutes the science when put alongside it.

    Call me cynical, but I doubt that they’ll be able to compel the scientific and engineering community to look at their Physics if they’re forced to wade through a half-baked discussion about “mindsets” and “free(ing) the human mind”.

    I didn’t see anything about nukes being placed at time of construction in the Abstract. Is it somewhere else? It’s indeed a weird suggestion.

    • Replies: @Peripatetic Itch
  259. @Erebus

    “We discuss in appendix B how this surprising conclusion can
    be more easily understood in the technical
    context of the 1960s’, since it is quite obvious that burying three big nuclear devices
    deep in the ground under three skyscrapers
    could not be a “classical” terrorist operation
    but only the opportunistic use of a built-in
    feature.” (pp.22-23) Roby paper

    Now Iris says Amazon screwed up the authorship information, that Roby was not an author.

    • Replies: @Iris
    , @Iris
  260. Sparkon says:
    @Sparkon

    Dmitri Khalezov’s 9/11 fable from his Feb 21, 2011 YouTube interview with Kevin Barrett and Gordon Duff:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brQqRLCxJew&feature=player_embedded#at=33

    [Transcript @ ~1:13:00] Khalezov says,

    “…the missile that was fired into the Pentagon was used as a pretext to demolish the World Trade Center […] when the missile was fired into the Pentagon and found unexploded there, it was with a nuclear warhead, okay, and the fact that the missile found in the middle of the Pentagon was a nuclear missile was used by some people to convince the American officials in New York that the planes that hit the Twin Towers also had similar nuclear warheads inside the planes, and that this warhead stuck inside the Tower, I mean on the upper floors of the Twin Towers, and the warhead would produce atmospheric nuclear explosions over the high yield […] that would be enough to incinerate the entire New York. So the American officials took this information very seriously, because the missile in the Pentagon was a very convincing argument, and they decided to demolish the Twin Towers to prevent that atmospheric nuclear explosions by those alleged warheads on top of the Towers.”

    http://www.takeourworldback.com/wtcnukeddisinfo.htm

    In the interview, both Duff (12:46) and Barrett (1:07:30) make reference to, in Barrett’s words:

    “the demolition devices that were installed beneath the Twin Towers when they were built, were 150 kiloton nuclear devices, buried 77 metres beneath the surface”.

    Khalezov claims these 150 kiloton nuclear devices were detonated on 9/11 to destroy the Granit missiles embedded in the Twin Towers.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  261. Alfred says:

    The thermal hot spots conclusively proved that a number of nuclear devices were involved in the destruction of these buildings.

    The numerous trolls who have appeared here merely illustrates the importance to the Deep State of confusing people about the precise details as to HOW this was done.

    Doubtless, in due course, they will try to persuade us that letting off “small” nukes in an urban environment is not very different from conventional explosives. That is how they work. One small step at a time. Eventually, this will lead to a big nuclear war but by then it will be far too late.

    • Agree: Peripatetic Itch
    • Thanks: Iris
  262. Erebus says:
    @Sparkon

    But you are focused here entirely on just one of the possible means — nukes in the basement

    It’s called problem solving by halving. Two things stand out about the demolition – molecular dissociation of heavy materials including steel, and hotspots lasting weeks/months.

    Both require great energy. Much greater than available from chemical sources. Solving where it came from and how it was employed is the foundation of any solution and comes before cutter charges, micro/nano thermites, wired floors, and all the rest. Unless our only question is Cui Bono?, it comes before the gold heists, the stock market & insurance frauds, etc as well.

    There’s many books’ worth of anomalies regarding the hijackers, the flight paths, the passenger lists, the cell phones, the security, Shanksville, the Pentagon, etc, etc, etc. It’s a huge rat’s nest of intertwined anomalies. Focusing on one, or a subset of them may be interesting (or at least entertaining) but that’s not where this discussion has gone. It has narrowed to addressing the two stand-out features of 9/11 mentioned above. The rest are relatively simple crimes and their associated cover-up. That may be frustrating for you, but there it is.

    Recall that some of FDNY firemen were saying they heard: “Boom, boom, boom, boom.” Does a nuke in the basement make multiple booms?

    Yes and no, in order. Note that Pommer explicitly calls for auxiliary detonations of standard explosives as well as electrically charged to weaken the building and shape the super-heated flow. Perhaps you missed that?
    Roby does not explicitly call for auxiliary charges, but as I mentioned above his schema won’t work without them. I think he simply didn’t take his nukes and consider how exactly they could be used to get to what we saw that day.

    One of the things that struck me that day and later watching videos is that there were no explosions during the collapse. Multi-ton building components were flying through the air, and all that anyone recorded was a roar like a rolling thunder. I remember thinking that was very odd, but forgot about it until I read Pommer. One of the reasons I like his schema is that it accounts for that small observation I made then and no other schema has.

    • Agree: Peripatetic Itch
  263. Sparkon says:
    @Sparkon

    Khalezov claims these 150 kiloton nuclear devices were detonated on 9/11 to destroy the Granit missiles embedded in the Twin Towers.

    It should be “to destroy the Granit missile warheads embedded in the Twin Towers.”

    According to Khalezov’s fantastic and entirely unbelievable theory, he thinks AA11 and UA175 had Granit missile warheads aboard.

    • Replies: @Peripatetic Itch
  264. Erebus says:

    … he thinks AA11 and UA175 had Granit missile warheads aboard.

    I’ll grant that they did, if Khazelov in turn grants that they were CGI like the planes.

    I’m gotta find me some of whatever he’s smokin’.

  265. Iris says:
    @Peripatetic Itch

    since it is quite obvious that burying three big nuclear devices deep in the ground under three skyscrapers could not be a “classical” terrorist operation but only the opportunistic use of a built-in feature.” (pp.22-23) Roby paper

    Thanks for picking up this important point which is often understood differently by people, based on their background.

    By “opportunity use of a built-in feature”, Pr Roby did not mean that nuclear weapons were placed underneath the Twin Towers at construction. He meant that empty “explosion chambers” had been constructed under each building, at a carefully calculated depth, as part of building controls provisions, to receive nuclear explosives in the future when decision is made to demolish .

    Devising a demolition method beforehand is normal practice in building regulations.
    What seems strange to us is that engineers could have even thought of using nuclear weapons for demolition. But in the 60’s, nuclear engineering was not viewed as hazardous as it is today and had been happily used for peaceful, civil engineering applications.

    Like most skyscrapers, the Twin Towers were erected on piles anchored into the bedrock, a necessary condition for a building that high.

    The footings supporting the building would have been blasted or drilled into the bedrock to create the foundations; there was, from memory, 20+ pile per tower. It would have been easy to create one supplementary drill, left empty as provision to be used as future explosion chamber . Not even the construction workers would have paid attention.

    • Replies: @Erebus
    , @Peripatetic Itch
  266. Iris says:
    @Peripatetic Itch

    Now Iris says Amazon screwed up the authorship information, that Roby was not an author.

    Heinz Pommer has provided his book “The Ground Zero Model” in free access, in its entirety it seems, so everybody can check by themselves and make up their opinion.
    Roby certainly helped him, but does not necessarily endorse the book.

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/342355359_The_Ground_Zero_Model_GZM

    For clarity, what I am saying is that:
    – Pr Roby’s work is 98% impeccable physics and mathematics, and 2% assumptions.
    – Heinz Pommer’s work is perhaps 50% general physics knowledge, and 50% assumptions.

    More importantly, Pr Roby’s outstanding and superior contribution is that he has proven, using un-challengeable Physics laws and flawless mathematics, that the WTC heat release can be nothing but the consequence of a nuclear reaction.

    Assumptions made by Pommer about the type of nuclear device, its location, its depth, can be rejected and ridiculed.

    But the cold, hard, low-estimate figure of 1 peta Joules of thermal energy released by the WTC cannot, because it was obtained using universal Physics principles impeccably utilised by an accomplished academic. We can be 100% certain that the WTC energy release was of nuclear nature, because its gigantic scale was scientifically calculated.

    One last thing: expert physicist Jean Bricmont’s refusal to assess Roby’s demonstration is a proof in itself. If the demonstration was flawed, it would have been morally and intellectually easy to denounce it. If the demonstration is correct, saying so would be committing social and professional suicide. Bricmont’s silence is an admission of self-preservation.

  267. Erebus says:
    @Iris

    Strangely, my own reply to Peripatetic Itch’s post did not appear.

    It was much along the lines of your post, so I AGREE!

    It would have been easy to create one supplementary drill, left empty as provision to be used as future explosion chamber . Not even the construction workers would have paid attention.

    Though I can’t speak to the era when the Towers were built, the reality is that in more modern times “End of Life” planning has been fundamental to the architect’s and the civil engineer’s job.

    As that era coincided with the the “Atoms for Peace” program which promoted nukes for a variety of civil engineering purposes including nuclear demolition, it wouldn’t surprise me one bit to learn that appropriate “features” had been built-in to the WTC plan for the towers’ eventual removal.

    • Thanks: Iris
    • Replies: @Iris
  268. Erebus says:
    @Iris

    Bricmont’s silence is an admission of self-preservation.

    … and of abject cowardice. To refuse to look for truth is to endorse The Big Lie. Shameful. Obviously, when push comes to shove, Bricmont’s no Physicist, much less a Scientist.

    • Replies: @Iris
    , @Miro23
  269. @Priss Factor

    When steel approaches melting point 2700 degrees it behaves like licorice and doesn’t fall.

  270. Iris says:
    @Erebus

    As that era coincided with the the “Atoms for Peace” program which promoted nukes for a variety of civil engineering purposes including nuclear demolition, it wouldn’t surprise me one bit to learn that appropriate “features” had been built-in to the WTC plan for the towers’ eventual removal.

    Thanks Erebus for your open mind.

    The only thing that is bizarre about the “nuke in the basement” engineering solution is that it proceeds out of obsolete technologies that seem criminal and weird to the contemporary public, but are not even formally banned yet by the Comprehensive Nuclear Test-Ban Treaty.

    From 1957 to 1989, over 150 Peaceful Nuclear Explosions (PNE’s) were carried out by the US and USSR. PNE’s were carried out for a variety of engineering purposes:

    – Large-scale excavation to create reservoirs, canals and ports.
    – Stimulating oil and gas recovery.
    – Creating cavities for underground oil, gas or waste storage.
    – Extinguishing gas field fires;

    To which we can with certainty add the demolition of skyscrapers in the heart of Manhattan.

    https://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/non-power-nuclear-applications/industry/peaceful-nuclear-explosions.aspx

    The US “Plowshare” PNE programme aimed, among other things, at digging a second Canal of Panama by means of nuclear detonations.

    • Thanks: Erebus
  271. Iris says:
    @Erebus

    … and of abject cowardice. To refuse to look for truth is to endorse The Big Lie.

    Correct. On second thought, this reasoning applies to all physicists.

    In France, we have dedicated press organs, part of mainstream media as prestigious as leading reference newspaper “Le Monde” for instance, whose overt and declared mission and raison d’être is the tracking of “fake news” and debunking of “conspiracy theories” to the public.
    There even exists a European Observatory created and funded by the EU to combat fake news.

    https://www.euractiv.fr/section/medias/news/un-observatoire-pour-traquer-les-fake-news-demarre-a-florence/

    You would think that such army of institutional mercenaries supported by mercenary academia would make mincemeat of the lone Professor Roby, no? Que nenni: they don’t even dare mentioning his works or his name, let alone try to refute his proof. You can safely conclude that this is the best possible credit to his thesis.

  272. @Sparkon

    According to Khalezov’s fantastic and entirely unbelievable theory, he thinks AA11 and UA175 had Granit missile warheads aboard.

    Couldn’t agree more about the fantastic and unbelievable aspect of this statement, but I’m put to asking what on earth your statement has to do with Khalezov’s actual theory of how the towers were brought down. Is it the Granit-missile aspect that provokes you? Would you have had the same reaction if he had said the planes were carrying population-destroying levels of anthrax, or Covid-19? What you are doing is attacking the man not his theory. Your point is he must be crazy for advancing this, so we can ignore anything else he has said.

    More likely, IMHO, he was threatened by TPTB with dire consequences, even death, even attacks on his family, if he didn’t come up with something wild and unsustainable that could be used in exactly the manner you employ here.

    You seem much less interested in determining how the towers fell than in denigrating the more threatening explanations.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  273. @Iris

    It would have been easy to create one supplementary drill, left empty as provision to be used as future explosion chamber.

    That is certainly possible but consider Pommer’s approach to the placement of his device. He has it placed at the bottom of the main service elevator. When it is activated (coincident with William Rodriquez’s explosion seconds before the “plane” crash), it heats up, melts through the bedrock in a “China Syndrome” way and sinks a further 19 meters or so below the elevator shaft. This helps to contain the blast and its radioactivity and to create that collimating shaft required to direct the blast upwards.

    Pommer’s solution has more explanatory power because it fits together in an integrated whole, requiring only the one ingenious idea together with the known properties of radioactive materials. It does not require the extra drill hole at the time of construction, for which there is no independent evidence.

    Explanatory power, in the history of science, is often one of the more important criteria in gaining acceptance for a theory.

  274. Sparkon says:

    Anyone could, and should, download and examine the 9372 x 9372 pixel overhead image of the WTC site taken in late September 2001 from a Cessna aircraft operated by NOAA.


    [This is a 1024 x 1024 preview – get the full 9372 x 9372 version here]

    When looking at that big image, please take note that none of the many exterior box column sections scattered about in and beyond the WTC site are ripped, scorched, melted, shattered, or even bent, and virtually all are intact, showing that failures of the external box column sections must have occurred at the bolts.

    Note also the larger, long steel beams lying scattered about. These pieces are almost certainly from the central core, and most are straight, seemingly undamaged, showing no sign, and offering no evidence of the nearby passage of a torrent of plasma, or of a nuclear explosion.

    Donald Friedman was a privately contracted engineer from LZA Technology who was at Ground Zero to help oversee cleanup operations. In his book After 9-11, An Engineer’s Work at the World Trade Center he observed:

    I had misgivings about the core columns I was seeing … I was unhappy that the columns I saw lying on West Street seemed to be in too-good condition.

    These huge columns—the largest weighed more than one ton per running foot—were almost all straight, with clean edges at both ends. There were some dents here and there, but I expected a piece of steel that had been wrenched out of a building to be bent. I examined the ends of the columns every chance I got. Every welded splice at the column ends I saw had failed the same way: by ripping out of the steel.

    […]

    Under the extraordinary loads imposed during the collapse, the columns were free to buckle after the the welds ripped off of the flat surface of the groove. Like a lot of the structural damage I saw, this was not a normal phenomenon and it was hard to accept.

    [my bolds & formatting]

    https://www.metabunk.org/threads/wtc-towers-core-columns-what-held-them-together-welds.9256/

    Your level of acceptance may vary.

    • Replies: @Iris
    , @Peripatetic Itch
  275. Miro23 says:
    @Erebus

    Bricmont’s silence is an admission of self-preservation.

    … and of abject cowardice. To refuse to look for truth is to endorse The Big Lie. Shameful. Obviously, when push comes to shove, Bricmont’s no Physicist, much less a Scientist.

    Bricmont is actually very exposed, but he has done enough to get his message across. We all have to wait for more auspicious times. It’s not Bricmont that will do the mano a mano in the streets.

    • Thanks: Iris
  276. Erebus says:
    @Iris

    But the cold, hard, low-estimate figure of 1 peta Joules of thermal energy released by the WTC cannot, because it was obtained using universal Physics principles impeccably utilised by an accomplished academic. We can be 100% certain that the WTC energy release was of nuclear nature, because its gigantic scale was scientifically calculated.

    This is the money shot.

    The undeniability of Roby’s work and conclusion is the new foundation on which any future model of the towers’ demolition must stand. The combination of plasma plumes, super-heated gas jets, shockwaves, thermites/thermates, hi-explosives, etc that best explains the entirety of empirical evidence will stand tallest, but it remains to be seen what that model is.

    Whatever it will prove to be, Roby has laid the soundest of foundations. No satisfactory model can be built without incorporating his 1 petaJoules.

    Thanks for sticking with this Iris. I downloaded Pommer’s GZM and plan to read it in the coming days.

  277. @Iris

    Heinz Pommer has provided his book “The Ground Zero Model” in free access.
    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/342355359_The_Ground_Zero_Model_GZM

    Thanks for that. It is a good read. Took all afternoon.

    Pr Roby and Heinz Pommer are simply nowhere in the same academic league. The former is a first class scientist who has studied and taught in elite higher education institutions.

    Uh, no. These are the same arguments that have been made about the truth community from day one. The hiring and promotion of scientists has too often been corrupted by politics for many decades. Scientists tend to do their greatest work when they are young and inexperienced in the opprobrium a novel idea can generate against them from established academic circles. Einstein was a green patent-office clerk in 1905 when he published not one but four research papers, any one of which could have earned him a Nobel.

    – Pr Roby’s work is 98% impeccable physics and mathematics, and 2% assumptions.
    – Heinz Pommer’s work is perhaps 50% general physics knowledge, and 50% assumptions.

    Without endorsing these impossibly precise figures, it seems Professor Roby impeccable physics is in the one area of thermodynamics that Pommer accepts and builds on, because that is where Roby’s admitted expertise lies. Roby’s assumptions about the nuclear device required may or may not be based on better physics than Pommer’s. Pommer actually seems to have developed more detailed expertise in nuclear physics than has Roby. The evaluation of their models should be based on their explanatory power and not their author’s credentials.

    More importantly, Pr Roby’s outstanding and superior contribution is that he has proven, using un-challengeable Physics laws and flawless mathematics, that the WTC heat release can be nothing but the consequence of a nuclear reaction.

    There is no point in trying to rank them. Physics builds on prior research. No one denigrates Feynman for building on the work of Planck. As I said, Pommer accepts and builds on Roby’s thermodynamic results and Roby seems at least to respect Pommer, being a contributing author to Pommer’s book.

    Assumptions made by Pommer about the type of nuclear device, its location, its depth, can be rejected and ridiculed.

    Ridicule is but a highly refined sub-discipline of rhetoric and sophistry. It has nothing inherently to do with the validity or invalidity of the thesis it is directed at. In fact the biggest efforts of ridicule are often most directed at the more threatening and valid aspects of a novel theory. Just for example, I was somewhat taken aback by the ridicule I garnered in this thread for describing Pommer’s plasma pulse as a collimated beam that spread more and more the higher it rose. Well as it turns out that spread is what is probably responsible for the 600 ft. spire that remained standing in WTC1, which on careful examination turned out to be a v-shaped cut in the lower portion of the building (i.e. not one but two spires opposite each other), in exactly the form of Pommer’s spreading beam. That v-shaped cut was also incredibly where all the survivors of the collapse were situated. This may well turn out to be the key observation of the whole event.

    • Replies: @Erebus
  278. People who have experienced Arabic people/culture/mentality know better than to believe the official 9/11 narrative

    It’s pretty darn embarrassing to be honest

    What’s next? The Kardashians

  279. Erebus says:
    @Peripatetic Itch

    I’m out of buttons, so AGREE & THANKS
    And thanks to both you and Iris for the conversation.

    BTW, another quibble… I’ve very cursorily scanned the book as is my habit before reading it later, and the first thing I noticed…
    You mentioned at #282 “He has placed (the nuclear charge) at the bottom of the main service elevator.” In fact, the first schematic in the book (pg7) places the charge at ~95M below grade, while the elevator shafts seem to bottom out around 18M below grade. A presumably pre-existing “nozzle” in the granite focuses flow.
    BTW, that schematic captures exactly how I imagined his scheme working, at least on the physical level. It’s been substantially developed since the PPT I saw last year.

  280. Sparkon says:
    @Peripatetic Itch

    What you are doing is attacking the man not his theory.

    Horse pucky! You’re playing fast and loose with the truth, and not for the first time. My comments 211, 217, 229, 240, 245, 249, 254, 265, and more recently 283 have all addressed directly or indirectly this entire nukes in the basement business a la Dimitri Khalezov.

    In my comment 269, I quoted Khalezov himself. In my comment 272, I described his theory as “fantastic and unbelievable,” but in your mind, all I’ve done is attack the man.

    Of course, you’re the same guy who mischaracterized my four-sentence comment as a “screed,” and you’re another guy who doesn’t want to talk about anything but nukes in the basement, nukes in the basement, and more nukes in the basement.

    Is it a monomania yet?

    • Replies: @Peripatetic Itch
  281. Erebus says:

    … you’re another guy who doesn’t want to talk about anything but nukes in the basement, nukes in the basement, and more nukes in the basement.

    This statement outs you as somebody who needs a fishing net installed on his hat so concepts don’t keep flying over his head.

    It’s the petaJoule(s) in the basement, petaJoule(s) in the basement, s petaJoule(s) in the basement that your net-less hat keeps missing.

    On the day Roby’s paper came out, all explications of the towers’ demolition that failed to account for his work became noise. His paper doesn’t assume nukes, it concludes with them. Do you understand what that means? As his logic and maths are unassailable, it means he’s right. That in turn means that the only viable counter-argument is to show that in fact there exist technologies other than nuclear that could have generated similar amounts of energy in a similarly confined space. As none are publicly known, the process of elimination necessarily takes us to “nukes in the basement”.

    Pommer’s is the first mechanism (I’m aware of) that uses Roby’s petaJoule(s) as the foundation for the development of a plausible schema accounting for what we actually saw (and didn’t see) that day.

    For myself, everything that happened to the towers that day became explicable so long as his super-heated flow of gases could be generated by a nuclear event/process. That’s something I’m unqualified to comment on. If it can be, then the discussion necessarily moves to what supporting inputs of energy would be required to maintain the flow and assure complete destruction.

    It really is as simple as that.

    • Thanks: Iris
    • Replies: @Sparkon
  282. Iris says:

    That in turn means that the only viable counter-argument is to show that in fact there exist technologies other than nuclear that could have generated similar amounts of energy in a similarly confined space

    Thanks ever so much for the clear and concise summary.

    I will further detail the following for the benefit of the confused Sparkon. We cannot create energy, we can only channel it from nature where it presents itself under three forms:
    – Physical (such as windpower, tidal energy, waterfalls,…)
    – Chemical (chemical reactions involving only the electron outer layers of atoms and molecules)
    – Nuclear (fission or fusion reactions involving respectively the breaking up or the merging of nuclei of atoms and molecules).

    And that’s it. There is no other possible source of energy.

    So unless there was a raging volcano underneath the Twin Towers (sarcasm), science proves as implacably as 1+1=2 that they were demolished by nuclear detonations.

  283. Sparkon says:
    @Erebus

    You have failed to prove there were any of your hypothetical nukes or petajoules in the basement, either one, nor to describe how the fantastic raging torrents of plasma from your precious magic nukes and their petajoules were contained within the magic chimney, yet failed to melt, bend, or damage those central core columns photographed strewn around “Ground Zero,” as I pointed out in my comment # 283, and as was noted by Donald Friedman in his book, as I have quoted.

    “…the columns I saw lying on West Street seemed to be in too-good condition…Every welded splice at the column ends I saw had failed the same way: by ripping out of the steel.”

    Not melted, but ripped. It really is as simple as that.

    Friedman was there at the WTC site, and observed the relatively undamaged central core columns. Additionally, as I have pointed out, there are numerous seemingly undamaged central core columns visible in NOAA’s overhead image.

    Of course, who would believe his own lying eyes, when we’ve got you, Iris, and Peripatetic Itch bombarding us with your fantastic claims, like a tag team on a filibuster.

    Meanwhile, your Khalezov claims he was in Bangkok, Thailand on 9/12 meeting with Mossad Operations Chief Mike Harari. In his book, Khalezov claims there really were no planes on 9/11, so he can’t even keep his BS stories straight.

    Anyone can look at the high resolution image I linked and see for himself there are undamaged central core columns lying around “Ground Zero,” in addition to the great number of external box column sections, virtually all of them intact.

    That fact — visible to anyone, and not requiring thousands of words of special pleading — all by itself destroys your magic petajoules, magic plasma shaft, and all the rest of the monomaniacal malarkey you and your tag team are peddling here nonstop.

    • Replies: @Erebus
  284. Erebus says:
    @Sparkon

    You have failed to prove there were any of your hypothetical nukes or petajoules in the basement…

    Umm, it was Roby who proved that the petaJoules were in the basement, not me. Had you read and understood his paper, you’d know that his proof is robust and you wouldn’t expect me to prove it (again).

    Somewhere upstream I said that until you had read and showed you understood Roby’s paper, there was nothing to discuss. You didn’t, there isn’t, and so you remain where you started – in ignorance. Read Roby’s paper and get back to us. Until then you’re just noise.

  285. Iris says:
    @Sparkon

    This is a very important photo, as it contains one of the most striking empirical proof of controlled demolition bu underground detonation.

    Zooming in, one can see a gaping whole in the middle of WT6:

    As a reminder, WTC used to stand in between WTC7 and the North Tower:

    So what mysterious and invisible force could have caused WT6, a completely independent structure, to cave in and collapse at its centre?

    The official explanation is that WTC6 was crushed in its middle by pieces of structure dropping of the North Tower. The first problem is that the alleged pieces of structure are nowhere to be seen in the aerial photo.

    The second problem is that LIDAR 3-dimensional mapping of the area showed that the core of WTC6, far from showing a pile of debris off the North Tower, had actually collapsed as low as 40 feet below street level (far left side on the picture):


    Is this yet another extraordinary scientific mystery 9/11 was rife with?

    Not really. The North Tower and WTC7 being destroyed at the basement level show that the controlled demolition was carried out with underground detonations.

    As WTC6 was erected between WTC1 and WTC7, its foundations and the ground it was standing on collapsed as collateral damage of the underground detonations that occurred each side.

  286. @Sparkon

    When looking at that big image, please take note that none of the many exterior box column sections scattered about in and beyond the WTC site are ripped, scorched, melted, shattered, or even bent, and virtually all are intact, showing that failures of the external box column sections must have occurred at the bolts.

    It is indeed an interesting and informative picture, but you never really tell us what it is supposed to prove, and despite my asking several times, you never really state what theory of collapse you subscribe to. That makes it very easy for you to always go on the attack and never have to defend a position. In other threads you seem to hold to a nukes in the “belfry” model as opposed to the nukes in the “basement” model you are so careful to disparage in this thread. That seems to be belied by your subsequent statement here, but if true whatever this picture proves goes double for a nukes in your belfry model.

    I suspect, however, that you are a covert supporter of the so-called official fire-induced theory of the collapse. If so, perhaps you can explain how the lack of scorching or melting fits in with that theory. While you are at it please have a go at explicating how those multi-ton columns got so far “scattered about in and beyond the WTC.”

    Note also the larger, long steel beams lying scattered about. These pieces are almost certainly from the central core, and most are straight, seemingly undamaged, showing no sign, and offering no evidence of the nearby passage of a torrent of plasma, or of a nuclear explosion.

    All very good, but (unlike you who never seems to think it necessary to peruse his opponent’s cites) I did look through the metabunk cite you offered. That cite has end pictures of six interior box columns (not necessarily distinct), five of them showing marked inward bowing of the longer edges of the rectangle, which could only have happened under the intense heat and pressure of the collapse. These box columns all failed at their welds, which also implicates excessive heat as much if not more than mechanical stress.
    https://www.metabunk.org/threads/wtc-towers-core-columns-what-held-them-together-welds.9256/

    https://www.metabunk.org/attachments/20171119-085052-2nqdr-jpg.30188/

    You quote the engineer Donald Friedman from the same source for the information that:

    the columns I saw lying on West Street seemed to be in too-good condition.

    In the same book, however, Mr. Friedman also offered this tidbit:

    I saw almost no traces of the trusses (open-web joists), and the few bits visible had been bent into meaningless knots.

    How does this happen without substantial applications of heat? Did they evaporate on their own? Twist themselves into knots under extreme anxiety?

  287. Sparkon says:

    Here is another photograph that argues against the idea of nukes in the basement. The workers are using torches to cut apart the intact steel beams at the very bottom of one of the Twin Towers.

    AP Photo by Richard Drew, January 2002, h/t Whitney Webb

    The location of the building where the workers are cutting can be determined from this photo taken while the towers were under construction. The angled beams were used only at the very bottom of each tower in the basement levels.

    Can anyone identify the several cylindrical objects in the background of the photo where the workers are cutting? Are they perhaps part of the sewer lines?

    The Richard Drew photograph seems to be cropped. It accompanied an article by Whitney Webb at Mint Press News, but using Google image search, I have been unable to find any other versions of it.

    • Replies: @Erebus
  288. @Sparkon

    Dimitri Khalezov in fact proposed a quite interesting theory for the nuclear destruction of the WTC, with details for size, placement, mechanisms and effects and with scientific evidence demanding the energetics only a nuclear device could generate. Admittedly, as a first attempt at solving the “crime of the century” and having no access to the minds of the perps or the investigative powers of the FBI, it naturally had some faults, many of which he admitted himself. (Hey, even the vaunted FBI accused the hero of the 1996 Atlanta Olympic bombing, Richard Jewell, of being the terrorist himself.) But the closest you could get to any of Khalezov’s actual theory was:

    Another red herring is the nukes in the basement theory a la Dimitri Khalezov. C211

    Not even a hint of any denigration there, right…

    Then, Khalezov, you say, got sucked in, like all the rest of us, by the fake demolition sequences for WTC1, 2:

    Khalezov himself had used a bad or scratch version of the WTC 1 demolition sequence, poor sap,

    Yep, no ad homs there…

    Tons of jibber jabber about what kind of firecracker blew up the Twin Towers, but still not a even a single word in response to my comment about the big gold heist. C245

    As far as fixations go, the record shows virtually all the keyboard diarrhea here has been about nukes in the basement, magic chimneys, raging plasmas reduced to squibs, now you’ve brought up the alleged hot spots, but no citation, yet you’ve got the temerity to say I’m the one with the fixation?
    Give me a freaking break! C254

    Yep, no ad homs there, either… And while demanding citations for the “hot spots” you naturally nodded off when Erebus gave you half a dozen. No point in responding to fixated people with keyboard diarrhea, especially when they have no interest in responding to your 700-word screed on the gold heist.

    But you are focused here entirely on just one of the possible means — nukes in the basement — to the exclusion of all else. Is it a filibuster yet? C265
    Unz Review writers and commenters have shown a complete and inexplicable lack of interest or curiosity about the apparent big gold heist on 9/11, as if it were mental kryptonite for them, or something

    Maybe for laughs I’ll dig up Khalezov’s original narrative about 9/11. It’s a doozy. C265

    In my comment 269, I quoted Khalezov himself. In my comment 272, I described his theory as “fantastic and unbelievable,”

    You certainly described something about Khalezov as “fantastic and unbelievable”, but it wasn’t any aspect of the physicist/nuclear-engineering theory that relates to how the WTC came down. It related only to his perhaps forced explanation of why the perps needed to do the deed, and then only to give them a culpability-reducing excuse. Nope, no ad hom there… Nothing to do with damning a motive-ascription that is irrelevant to the core issue…

    Horse pucky! …. you’re another guy who doesn’t want to talk about anything but nukes in the basement, nukes in the basement, and more nukes in the basement.

    And still nobody wants to talk about the world’s biggest gold heist…

  289. Sparkon says:

    This photo shows an interior view of WTC 6 after it was mostly destroyed.

    Image from Dr. Judy Wood, photographer unknown.

    I had previously posted this photograph, and commented about it:

    If you look at the hole in Bldg. 6, structural elements from WTC 1 (or 2?) can be seen at the bottom of the hole in the form of the external box-column “chex” sections. The simplest explanation is that debris falling or ejected from WTC 1 punched a big hole in Bldg. 6.

    Notice the hanging debris within WTC 6 that would tend to refute a bottom up force, and support a top down force, i.e. debris falling from WTC 1. Note too there is no sign of a blast of any kind within Bldg. 6’s ruins.

    https://www.unz.com/article/more-americans-questioning-official-9-11-story-as-new-evidence-contradicts-official-narrative/#comment-3448336

  290. Erebus says:
    @Sparkon

    The pictures show the exterior columns in exactly the condition I would expect. If planned correctly, the plasma/hot gas flow would never have got near them, especially at the bottom where the flow would have been at its most focussed. In fact, I’d expect them to be intact several stories up, and it wouldn’t surprise me to learn that even a few of the core columns were still standing near the bottom.

    Not only do you misunderstand Roby, you totally misunderstand Pommer’s destruction model. More likely, you simply lack the concepts necessary to work with them.

    Pommer’s model is actually brilliant in its simplicity and the breadth of empirical phenomena it can account for. It even tells us why “airplanes” were a necessary component, and why the demolition necessarily began at the “impact point” and equally necessarily went downwards in a perfect sequence.

    Meanwhile, it dissolves several vexing problems such as how the buildings were saturation wired for explosives with no-one noticing. They didn’t have to be, a couple dozen explosions are all that were needed.

    Assuming his plasma/hot gas flow could be generated and sustained by a nuclear reaction, I’m convinced Pommer’s model would explain everything if he can bring it to full maturity.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  291. Sparkon says:
    @Erebus

    Assuming his plasma/hot gas flow could be generated and sustained by a nuclear reaction, I’m convinced Pommer’s model would explain everything if he can bring it to full maturity.

    Good luck with that. It’s assumptions and models all the way down.

    Where you rely on theory, I rely on direct observation.

    I’ll put to you the same challenge I’ve put to the thermite advocates. Show me a real-world demonstration of Roby’s or Pommer’s theories or models.

    • Replies: @Iris
    , @Erebus
  292. Iris says:
    @Sparkon

    I’ll put to you the same challenge I’ve put to the thermite advocates. Show me a real-world demonstration of Roby’s or Pommer’s theories or models.

    But there had been dozens of real-life demonstration of underground nuclear détonations, Sparkon. Just not with a skyscraper on top of the explosion chamber, which is truly a NeoCon novel speciality.

    This is a description by French “Commissariat à l’Energie Atomique” of the processes involved in underground nuclear detonations carried out in hard, rocky Sahara ground, similar to Manhattan’s bedrock.
    https://www.osti.gov/etdeweb/servlets/purl/20528748

    Page 9 – Description of the formation of the cavity around the detonated charge

    1- Formation of the cavity

    Figure 4 illustrates the cavity formation process for a one kiloton shot in hard rock.
    a) between time zero and a few microseconds, there is formation of a fireball then of a powerful shock wave at the explosion chamber walls. As explained above, the environment surrounding the chamber is not yet disturbed.

    b) after a few tens of microseconds, the shock wave having propagated in the medium and its pressure having decreased to the vaporization pressure, it has created within the medium a cavity filled with gas at high temperature .

    c) after a few hundred microseconds the pressure of the shock wave has evolved to the melting pressure of the medium. The gases from the vaporized rocks then begin to relax adiabatically and the cavity, the walls of which were expanding, is lined with molten rocks (or lava).

    d) between a few hundred microseconds and a few tens of milliseconds, while the shock wave continues to propagate by fracturing the medium, the gases continue their quasi-adiabatic expansion until their pressure is compensated by the pressure exerted by cover lands.

    e) a few tens of milliseconds after time zero, the cavity stabilizes; the lava that lined the walls during expansion sinks and accumulates at the bottom. The gases escape through the cracked rock surrounding the cavity and their pressure slowly decreases. The cavity is not stable for very long; when the gas pressure is no longer sufficient to hold the pulverized and fractured rock in place, the roof collapses causing the formation of a scree zone which gains height.

    Page 12 Formation of the chimney:

    2. Formation of the chimney

    Both the crushed zone and the fractured zone have a roughly spherical shape as long as the pressure of the gases holds the pulverized rocks in place. After a time varying from a few minutes to a few hours, the vault collapses and the weathered rocks above it. A chimney is formed which is stabilized either by equilibrium of the new vault in the sound rock, or by complete filling of the cavity by an abundance of scree.

    At the base of the cavity, the collapsed blocks mix with the liquefied rock, undergoing partial melting. Above, they accumulate, forming a unit with very high permeability and porosity. There are often voids, especially in the upper part (fig. 5). The shape and height of the chimney as well as the dimensions of the scree depend on the one hand on the energy of the explosion but mainly on the nature of the rock and its degree of fracturing prior to firing. In friable soil, the chimney can spread gradually and reach the surface, forming a small collapse crater (fig. 6). In salt [ref. 7] an almost spherical chimney is formed, the diameter of which is slightly greater than that of the cavity before the collapse (fig. 7).

    On page 13, there is a clear, explanatory drawing showing how a chimney is created above the nuclear detonation chamber.

    These are the chimneys that engulfed the Twin Towers rubble and created yet another “9/11 scientific mystery”, whereby skyscrapers were brought down leaving holes instead of piles of rubble.

  293. Erebus says:
    @Sparkon

    Where you rely on theory, I rely on direct observation.

    You say you do, but to what effect? I haven’t heard of a plausible, or any, demolition model from you. At the end of a given day, a cat has observed as many or more things than you did, but lacks the modelling algorithms that allow him to explain things beyond a behavioural level. To explain things is to create a model.

    You make a lot of noisy complaints about us being a “one-trick pony”, but I see a no-trick pony when I look at your posts. I too was a no-trick pony. Until I was introduced to Pommer last year (by Iris?), I knew only that the model implicit in the official narrative fell light years short of explaining any of the empirical facts, but had no model to replace it.

    As a wise man once said “There’s nothing as practical as a good theory”. He was right, because a good theory is something like a metaphor which incorporates everything we’ve seen, and extrapolates it successfully into the future using logic so that anyone who understands the theory knows what to expect.

    You show us pictures of columns etc that you believe disprove Pommer’s model, utterly unaware that they actually corroborate it. I thank you for the corroboration, but I strongly suggest you alleviate your ignorance of the subject matter before typing it out for public consumption.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  294. Warring West: September 11th

    Global Muslim population: 2001-

  295. Sparkon says:
    @Erebus

    It is the responsibility of the person making the claim, that’s you, to provide the proof.

    I’ve asked you at least twice to show me a real-world demonstration of the theorized swirling magic plasma effect, and you haven’t done that.

    The ball’s in your court, not mine.

    You know, our host Ron Unz is a theoretical physicist. Maybe he’ll drop in to offer his opinion on Roby’s and Pommer’s theories and models.

    Speaking of Ron Unz, his long article American Pravda: 9/11 Conspiracy Theories back in 2018 had 2,385 comments, and Jonathan Revusky’s article earlier in the year Revisiting 9/11, Betty Ong, and the Mystery of “Black Betty” had 1,335.

    Both of those articles covered a wide range of topics related to 9/11, as you probably recall, including the peculiar fact that AA11 flight attendant Betty Ong had the additional Chinese name, call it an alias, of Deng Yuewei – 鄧月薇. Still no explanation why Ms. Ong had that Chinese name.

    The only 9/11 article on Unz Review this year is the current one by Pepe Escobar, which so far has drawn just over 300 comments. Clearly the relentless one note samba about nukes in the basement has not drawn wide interest or much participation from many of UR’s regulars.

    • Replies: @Peripatetic Itch
  296. Erebus says:

    It is the responsibility of the person making the claim, that’s you, to provide the proof.

    You again miss the mark.

    I did not make the claim that high ground temperatures necessarily required nuclear sources. I had no need to. Prof. Francois Roby proved it.

    Did you read his paper? If you did, it either went right over your head or you have to show why he is wrong. If you succeed in proving him wrong, I’ll be the first to drop the nukes-in-the-basement meme.

    My claim re: Pommer, as I’ve stated many times, is provisional. That is, if a plume can be generated by a nuclear event and controlled, it will explain much if not all of what we saw. Should somebody show that such a plume can be so generated, my claim would no longer be provisional and I would have to defend it. I stand eager to do so.

    … show me a real-world demonstration of the theorized swirling magic plasma effect…

    Have you ever used a plasma cutter Sparkon? Ever held one in your hand and cut a 2″ chunk of steel, or at least watched a CNC plasma cutter doing it from a distance? If you had, you wouldn’t be asking me that. The handheld version offers a more visceral experience, but even the CNC version would convey what a quite tiny plasma jet can do. Multiply that a few million times and 100 storey towers get destroyed.

    • Replies: @Erebus
    , @Iris
  297. Erebus says:
    @Erebus

    Correction, I meant to type “1” chunk of steel”. Didn’t notice the typo until too late.

  298. @Sparkon

    Speaking of Ron Unz, his long article American Pravda: 9/11 Conspiracy Theories back in 2018 had 2,385 comments

    So I accepted your invitation to look at your comments in this article to see what you really believed, at least back then. For the record, here’s what I found: That you believed (as I do) that there were no planes and that GCI was used to fake the plane pictures. That CGI was used to produce the demolition sequences. That the dustification of the towers requires a nuclear demolition and that you believed it was a series of shaped micronukes, which may have been put there at construction. Interestingly, you were much less caustic in those comments.

    [MORE]

    Comment 1049
    Even if we now throw out USGS’s WTC dust work as inconclusive, that still won’t establish a chain of possession for the haphazardly gathered samples analyzed by HFJ.

    Nor will it establish that this special nano thermite has the destructive force necessary to turn concrete and steel into dust, or to account for the demolition of the twin towers as seen on TV.

    This special thermite is supposed to ignite at relatively low temperatures, yet substantial portions of it somehow managed to avoid ignition and turn up in the samples gathered by four of NYC’s finest dust conscious citizens.

    Thermite is reputed to burn with a very bright flame, yet there is no evidence of any such bright flames or light during the demolition sequences of the twin towers.

    All that thermite, so little light.

    By the same token, I would expect to have seen bright flashes of light if nuclear devices had been used to destroy the twin towers.

    Comment 1339
    Nevertheless, the images are not so “blurry” to prevent us from seeing that reputed mostly aluminum UA 767 penetrate entirely into that reputed steel-caged WTC 2 like the proverbial knife through butter without any reaction from either building or airplane until a few puffs of white smoke finally flit across the still intact facade only as the magic airplane’s tail ducks out of sight into the building.

    Comment 1459
    My working assumption is that some video editing software similar to PVI’s L-VIS was used to generate the images of the 767, at the very least, and possibly much of the subsequent televised imagery including the airplane-shaped cartoonish punch-outs in the facades of the towers was generated and/or edited by a video insertion system like L-VIS, and even in the collapse sequences as well, CGI might have been used at least to remove tell-tale visual signatures of the agents of demolition used.

    All of those special effects are well within the capabilities of a system like L-VIS, which explains warnings by CBS execs in early 2000 already that this software makes things like “airplanes crashing” look “too real.

    In this video, even casually curious onlookers may see the image of the 767 strike the image of WTC 2 and glide into it like a hot knife into butter, but without any visible immediate reaction by either the 767 or WTC 2 – an entirely impossible feat.

    By now many regular people know that a mostly aluminum airplane could not possibly penetrate the dense array of steel box columns that enclosed the WTCs like a cage in the manner depicted in this and other videos.

    If it can’t be real, it must be CGI.

    Comment 1466
    I submit that it is conceptually sound and plausible for the plotters to have installed and detonated a string of shaped charge nuclear ladyfingers (very small yield) along the central core of each building with the blast of each directed upward to that it would demolish a set of floors, but leave its neighbors below undisturbed.

    Just as you can break anything with a big enough hammer (force) so too can you be much more precise with the breakage if the destructive range of your force is precisely known, and some of your lads know how to roll these nuke doobies to whatever size is required.

    C1482
    But everyone wants to keep talking about thermite, but not the other candidates with the necessary destructive force.

    C1739
    I agree with this. WTC 7 looked like a classic controlled demolition where most of the building’s debris did fall into its own footprint, but much debris from WTC 1 and WTC 2 did not fall into the respective footprints of those buildings.

    C1875
    In fact, there is no good, incontrovertible evidence of any Boeing airliner crash debris at any of the 4 sites where hijacked jetliners were alleged to have crashed on September 11, 2001. There are a number of obvious problems with the object found standing on end under scaffolding near the corner of Church and Murray.

    The simplest explanation for the failure of the USAF to intercept any hijacked jetliners on Black Tuesday is that there were, in fact, no real hijacked 757s or 767s that day, but rather only a combination of electronic spoofing, airplane shell games, video fakery, among various types of jiggery pokery used to construct the narrative

    C1942
    It is reasonable to think that these massive structures, which were entirely unnecessary when built, were constructed with some method and provisions for their eventual demolition incorporated into the original design.

    In fact, that may have been their real purpose, after all, symbolic pillars to be destroyed in some cataclysmic event with occult significance, little hints of which began appearing in the popular media almost from the time these completely unnecessary, widely reviled, and almost universally hated behemoths were built.

    C2286
    So too in the available videos of the collapse sequences, growing columns of dust and smoke effectively obscured the lower half of the buildings. We can’t see what was happening in those critical main support areas of these massive structures while the upper portions of the towers were being ripped apart by a downward-moving spiral of small but very powerful explosions that seemed to turn the buildings into cascading fountains of dust and debris spilling out far beyond the respective footprints of each tower.

  299. Dr. Charles Fhandrich [AKA "Dr.C. Fhandrich"] says:

    A great study by Pepe Escobar. There is a lot to consider here. Thank God, that Ron Unz posts such interesting and relevant articles.

  300. Iris says:

    Another 9/11 never-seen-before scientific “mystery” is fully explained by the nuclear demolition thesis.

    A noticeable feature of the WTC aftermath was the number of toasted cars found in the vicinity of the explosion, with a number of firemen testifying that in most cases no fire occurred around the cars:

    Some of the damage was very striking, with cars presenting both a completely toasted side, next to an intact and shiny side:

    There were even cars presenting a toasted metallic body, alongside unscathed synthetic upholstery:

    Such otherwise incomprehensible damage can be logically explained by the effects of the nuclear detonations.

    Nuclear detonations produce Gamma rays, which are known to cause the hydrolysis of water vapour (creeping from the fractured Bathtub) and Nitrogen (78% of air content), and produce nitric acid.
    Nitric acid is a powerful corrosive of metals, which presence explains the cars’ body fire-like corrosion, as well as the much accelerated corrosion of structural steel later recorded at the WTC.

  301. Iris says:
    @Erebus

    Hello Erebus;

    Pr Roby addressed some of your (and others’) questions regarding his support to Heinz Pommer’s WTC nuclear demolition thesis, although it differs from his own. You might want to read it and say hello to him; he is such an outstanding scientist. Best.

    https://aitia.fr/erd/lettre-ouverte-a-jean-bricmont/comment-page-1/#comment-2376

    Il semble que certains intervenants sur Unz Review (comme Erebus) me reprochent d’avoir associé mon nom à celui de Pommer et ainsi de prêter davantage le flanc à une critique facile. Je pense qu’il(s) se trompe(nt), et je vais essayer de dire pourquoi.

    • Replies: @Erebus
    , @Erebus
  302. Erebus says:
    @Iris

    Thanks for that Iris.
    It seems Prof. Roby has misinterpreted both my (and others’?) position on this. Here’s the Google translation, which reads pretty much like what remains of my schoolboy French. I italicized the point where my schoolboy French deviates from Google:

    It seems that some contributors to Unz Review (like Erebus) criticize me for associating my name with that of Pommer and thus lending more flank to easy review (criticism). I think he (s) are wrong, and I will try to say why.

    I certainly don’t reproach Roby for associating his name with Pommer, and I can’t think of why he may think so. Most likely he simply hasn’t paid much attention to Unz and I’m no more than a cipher for a more general perception of criticism.

    On the contrary, I wish he would dig in and underpin Pommer more concretely for the simple reason that my mechanical brain likes Pommer’s “mechanism”, but lacks the chops to satisfy me that his “needle” of superheated, high velocity gases can reliably be created by his “fizzling” (vs detonated) nukes. If anything, my worry is that Pommer can’t demonstrate that either.

    I’ve completely accepted Roby’s demonstration that the documented thermal evidence leads in a straight line to a nuclear power source, but my mechanical brain doesn’t like Roby’s mechanism of a shock wave emanating from a single point source as the primary collapse mechanism. In a structure as complex as a >300M tall building, shock waves would reflect and dissipate in such a bewildering cascade of effects that one could hardly expect them to result in such an orderly sequential collapse moving towards the energetic source. Simply put, that flies in the face of everything I’ve experienced. Unless forced by a sequential series of energetic inputs, with all their attendant logistical problems, I can’t get there from here.

    Whoever designed the collapse of the towers may have been geniuses, but they had to have developed and tested a model (even if only by FEA) to know what to expect with the requisite near-100% certainty when they set it off. An FEA model of Roby’s shock wave mechanism would be incredibly complex, taking a decade of tedious work and super-computer levels of computational power to verify. Even so, the operation would remain fraught with (in my view) unacceptable levels of risk. Then there’s the floor by floor wiring of explosives…

    Pommer’s mechanism has the advantage of simplicity, and looks like it would be able to account for such anomalies as the “planes” which are totally superfluous, indeed lethal, in Roby’s.

  303. Erebus says:
    @Iris

    Hi Iris,

    I’ve read your entire conversation with Roby (in translation). Very interesting to read his thoughts on background and surrounding matters, incl his association with Pommer. Thank you so much for engaging with him!

    Having read it however, I’m no closer to understanding where his notion that I specifically, or others (EG: Peripatetic Itch) are using his association with Pommer to attack him comes from. My own position regarding Pommer is much like his own. Perhaps he mistakenly attributed some of Sparkon’s rants to one (or both) of us.

    • Replies: @Iris
  304. Iris says:
    @Erebus

    Dear Erebus, lovely to hear from you as always.

    I think the machine translation does not do justice to the overall idea Pr Roby was expressing in his comment. I re-posted the compliment you made of his work. He must have been pleased that somebody new (yourself) had been able to understood the consequences of his findings. So he felt obliged to explain why he was also supportive of Pommer’s and others’ WTC nuclear demolition thesis that may differ from his own, at the risk of confusing the reader.

    I think your comments must have inspired him into explaining himself further to you and others. I guess he felt stimulated and challenged to carry his thinking over to somebody like you, highly intelligent, sincerely interested in 9/11 Truth, but not necessarily with a background in Thermal science, the core basis of his proof.

    I was first introduced to Khalezov’s thesis by an Unz Review commenter, in a discussion where Heinz Pommer himself took part (this webzine is amazing):

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-911-conspiracy-theories/#comment-2571621

    Revising nuclear engineering documentation was an immediate illumination. You see, Erebus, the trick was the creation of the chimney above the underground nuclear explosion chamber and its belated collapse that engulfed the respective Tower, like a magician “disappearing” his helpless victim through an invisible hatch. I read Pr Roby later, and his works provided the implacable, unchallegeable scientific forensic proof to something I already knew was true.

    Pr Roby’s situation is that all physicists know he is correct and won’t openly support him for fear of losing their jobs, lives or worst, while the educated public does not necessarily understand his proof. But his proof stands, towering over all 9/11 research as the immutable and unassailable evidence that a crime against humanity was committed at the WTC using nuclear weapons.

    Discussing his works with the respectful readers is, I am sure, something he enjoys and a way for him to improve the way his truth is carried to the public. Best.

  305. Erebus says:

    Hi Iris,

    I’m unable to follow the link as the comments to that article are now hidden, but I’ve surmised that the commenter “Heinz ” is actually Heinz Pommer. That’s very interesting and I’ll now re-read all his comments. Unfortunately, of the first few I’ve read he seems to have immediately been ambushed by the house trolls. C’est la vie sur Internet.

    I was actually tempted to leave a comment in your conversation with Prof. Roby. Perhaps I will after reading “Heinz’s” comments on the American Pravda thread.

    • Replies: @Iris
  306. Iris says:
    @Erebus

    Hi Erebus. Apologies, I did not realise that weblinks don’t work straightaway on archived comments.

    After clicking on the “2,385 Comments” weblink at the bottom of the article, please go to comment Nr 2,384 which is Heinz Pommer’s last in the discussion thread. It was a fascinating discussion; I don’t know of any website other than the UR, apart from Pr Roby’s, which allows such interesting exchange.

    I think you writing directly in English to Pr Roby would be great. He is probably much more interested discussing with people with questions and different views on his model, than with those like myself who are already convinced anyway. Best.

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