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Stranger things have happened.

Everyone was expecting US President Donald Trump to go nuclear by de facto sanctioning China to death over Hong Kong. In an environment where Twitter and the President of the United States are now engaged in open warfare, the rule is that there are no rules anymore.

So in the end, what was announced against China amounted to an anti-climax.

The US government, as it stands, is terminating its relationship with the World Health Organization (WHO). The geopolitical repercussions are immense and that will take time to sink in. In the short term, something must be blamed for the US’ appalling Covid-19 record, so it might as well be a UN institution.

Hong Kong’s preferential trade status will also be terminated, but in a hazy future in still undetermined terms.

Phase 1 of the US-China trade deal still stands – at least for now. Yet there’s no guarantee that Beijing itself won’t start to doubt it.

The bottom line: “Investors” were duly appeased, for now. Team Trump seems not to be exactly versed in the niceties of Hong Kong’s Basic Law, as the president stressed the “plain violation of Beijing’s treaty obligations with the United Kingdom.” The national security law was blasted as “the latest” Chinese aggression against its own special administrative region.

Now compare all this with the Two Sessions in Beijing ending the day before, with an intriguing, quite Keynesian performance by Prime Minister Li Keqiang. This was compelling as much for what Li did not say as for what he chose to put on the public record.

Let’s review some of the highlights. Li stressed that the NPC’s resolution putting forth a national security law for Hong Kong is meant to protect “one country, two systems,” and not as an “aggression.”

Instead of demonizing the WHO, Beijing is committed to a serious scientific investigation of the origins of Sars-Cov-2. “No cover-up” will be allowed, Li said, adding that a clear, scientific understanding should contribute to global public health. Beijing also supports an independent review into the WHO’s handling of Covid-19.

Geopolitically, China rejects a “Cold War mentality” and hopes China and the US will be able to cooperate. Li stressed the relationship could be either mutually beneficial or mutually harmful. Decoupling was described as a very bad idea, for bilateral relations and for the world at large. China, after all, will start to import more and that should also profit US companies.

Domestically, the absolute focus – 70% of the available new funding – will be on employment, support for small and medium enterprises and measures to encourage consumption rather than investment in infrastructure building. In summation, in Li’s own words: “The central government will live on a tight budget.”

If not completely Sisyphean in the long term, it will at least be a “daunting task” in Li’s terminology considering the previously stated end-of-2020 deadline would be to reach President Xi Jinping’s goal of eliminating poverty across China.

Li said absolutely nothing about three key themes: the alarming Himalayan border stand-off between China and India; the prospects for Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) projects; and China’s complex geopolitical and geo-economic relationship with the European Union (EU).

The non-mention of the last theme is especially noticeable after Chancellor Merkel’s quite encouraging assessment earlier this week and EU foreign affairs chief Josep Borrell’s remark to a group of German ambassadors that “the end of an American-led system and the arrival of an Asian century” is now “happening in front of our eyes.”

Confirming steady rumors emanating from Frankfurt, Berlin, Brussels and Paris, China and East Asia are taking precedence as the EU’s top trading partner. This is something that will be extensively discussed at the upcoming EU-China summit next autumn in Germany. The EU is going Eurasia. Team Trump won’t be amused.

Dancing with wolves, remixed

Predictably, the Beijing leadership needs to focus on domestic consumption and reaching the next level on technological production so as not to fall into the notorious “middle-income trap.” Fine-tuning the balance between domestic stability and a very strong and wide global reach is another tak that brings Sisyphos to mind.

Xi, Li and the Politburo very well know that Covid-19 hugely affected migrants, farmers and small-scale family entrepreneurs. The risk of social unrest is very high. Unemployment protection is far from Scandinavian levels. So back to business, fast, has to be the top priority.

Enveloping this strategy is a new diplomatic offensive. Foreign Minister Wang Yi, usually meticulously nuanced and polite, is now increasingly exasperated. Earlier this week, Yi defined the demonization of China by the US over Covid-19 as “a product of the three no’s”: no grounds, no factual basis and no international precedent.

Moreover, he described attempts to blackmail China through threats as “daydreaming.” The Global Times, for its part, has blasted the Trump administration for “typical international hooliganism” and additionally stressed that “labeling Chinese diplomacy as ‘wolf warrior’ reflects an extreme ideology.”

The “wolf warrior” plot is bound to thicken. Beijing does seem ready to deploy its diplomatic force as wolf warriors. One should always keep in mind General Qiao Liang: if China is forced to dance with wolves, it might as well set up the rhythm.

That applies perfectly to the Hong Kong question. Whatever Team Trump thinks, Beijing has no interest whatsoever in disturbing the Hong Kong financial system or collapsing the Hang Seng index. That’s exactly what the black block protesters last year were accomplishing.

What we saw during this week is the result of what a task force, sent to Shenzhen last year to examine every angle of the protests, relayed back to the leadership in Beijing.

The sources of financing for the hardcore black blocks have reputedly been cut. The local 5th columnist “leaders” have been isolated. Beijing was being very patient tackling the whole mess. Then along came Covid-19.

The economic consensus in Beijing is that this will be an L-shaped recovery – actually very slow on the bottom of the L. So the West will buy much less from and invest much less in China.

This implies that Hong Kong is not going to be very useful. Its best bet has already been offered many times over: integrate with the Greater Bay Area and be part of a booming Pearl river delta southern cluster. Hong Kong businesses support it.

ORDER IT NOW

Another conclusion was that, whatever Beijing does, the Sinophobic hysteria in the US – and in this case also the UK – is unabated. So now is the right moment to go for the national security law, which of course is against subversion, against British-era “wigs” (judges) acting as 5th columnists and, most of all, against money laundering.

A Global Times editorial cut to the chase: the national security law is the “death knell” for US intervention in Hong Kong.

Cold War 2.0

As much as Yi may have said, this time diplomatically, that we’re “on the brink” of a new Cold War, the fact is the Trump administration’s hybrid war on China – or Cold War 2.0 – is now fully established.

US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo is openly threatening Five Eyes allies and vassals, as well as Israel, with consequences if they fail to ditch any projects linked to Belt and Road.

That is intimately linked to the avalanche of threats and measures against Huawei and everything connected to Made in China 2025, which proceeds at a fast pace but without using the terminology.

The official Trump re-election campaign strategy “China, China, China,” detailed in a 57-page memo to Republicans, is bound to be deployed as total hybrid warfare, including non-stop propaganda, threats, infowar technologies, cyber warfare and breaking news fabrications.

The ultimate objective shared by every Sinophobic strand, whether commercially-minded or think tank-based, is to derail the Chinese economy – a top level competitor – by any means necessary and thus cripple the ongoing Eurasian integration process whose three key nodes, China, Russia and Iran, happen to be top “threats” according to the US national security strategy.

Once again, the gloves are off. And Beijing won’t stop counterpunching in kind.

It’s as if Beijing had so far serially underestimated the Deep State and Beltway’s larger than life obsession with always remaining the undisputed hegemon, geopolitically and geo-economically. Every “conflict” erupting across the chessboard is and will continue to be directly linked to the twin objectives of containment of Russia and disruption of the Belt and Road.

I previously referred to the Empire of Chaos, where a plutocracy progressively projects its own internal disintegration upon the whole world. But only now is the serious game starting, complete with Trump’s intention to test nuclear bombs again. Not against a bunch of low-life “terrorists,” but against a serious, peer-competitor: the Eurasian strategic partnership.

It would be too much to expect Team Trump to learn from Gramscian analyses of Belt and Road, which demonstrate how the Chinese Dream – a Confucianist variant of neoliberalism – marks the evolution of China into a core production zone in the neoliberal world economy by profiting from the existing global legal structure.

Team Trump has vociferously announced its own strategy. Expect serial, silent Sun Tzu counterpunches.

(Republished from Asia Times by permission of author or representative)
 
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  1. Svevlad says:

    China might just start giving the US a taste of it’s own medicine.

    The riots shall be eternal

  2. Sean says:

    In the short term, something must be blamed for the US’ appalling Covid-19 record, so it might as well be a UN institution.

    On January 29th 2020 Peter Navarro sent Trump a memo advocating an immediate ban on air travel between China and the US. That Navarro’s advice was not taken indicates that Trump believed the WHO, and they believed China. Only Taiwan, Vietnam, Korea, and India, with their distrust of China escaped the straight-out-of-Wunan pandemic. The WHO between 12-22 January passed on a message to the whole wide world from China that the Wuhan disease had shown no signs of sustained transmissibility, China had knew that was not true by the 23rd of January, when they instituted an absolute cordoning off of Wuhan with a draconian internal closedown of the city.

    China did not bother to pass on this trifling little tidbit, they just left every other country to find out for themselves that the Wuhan disease would cause a global pandemic. Right into February China kept insisting and obscurely menacing that no country suspend flights to or from China. Until February China had insisted with obscure menaces that no country suspend flights to or from China.

    The Global Times, for its part, has blasted the Trump administration for “typical international hooliganism” and additionally stressed that “labeling Chinese diplomacy as ‘wolf warrior’ reflects an extreme ideology.”

    That is absolutely fine, and actually desirable. Each country should defend its own interests to an extreme degree and in that way a equitable settlement of issues can be reached. It is when one side starts thinking that the other is soft in the head and can be taken advantage of that there are problems. Fortunately Navarro’s stock with Trump is now sky high.

    I previously referred to the Empire of Chaos, where a plutocracy progressively projects its own internal disintegration upon the whole world.

    This is the total gulf in outlook between us. I happen to believe that states function to survive over-against other states, that is the reason for their existence and they continue to exist because they act that way. Internal power struggles do not determine the way a state behaves, at least not to the extent of it acting like a rabid dog. It most certainly is not true that plutocracy of any sort of cohesiveness, or lack of it, has proved less warlike that democracy. From its first appearance in Ancient Athens, democracy was the most aggressive and predatory of all systems.

    • Disagree: Mary Marianne
    • Troll: bluedog
  3. Sean says:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Running_dog
    Historian Chang-tai Hung suggests the term was used to invoke negative mental imagery; “The image of…a running dog parallels that of the United States as a wolf. Both bestial representations provide convenient and familiar symbols that political artists can target, but they also validate the use of violence since the annihilation of beasts is justified

    Canines have very low status in China, wild animals even more so. Mao Zedong compared the US to a wolf. I think it likely Xi’s statement is better translated as talking about Chinese officials as wolf hunters.

    • Replies: @Erebus
    , @Justsaying
    , @Jigvocute
  4. “On January 29th 2020 Peter Navarro sent Trump a memo advocating an immediate ban on air travel between China and the US. That Navarro’s advice was not taken indicates that Trump believed the WHO, and they believed China.”

    China stopped all flights from Wuhan on January 22.

    • Replies: @Sean
    , @ThatDamnGood
  5. Erebus says:
    @Sean

    Sean, there is nary a material statement in your 2 posts, or through your entire >8600 comments history, that isn’t demonstrably false, delusional, or disingenuous. Why do you invest so much time to type them out and present them to an audience who views the intellectual bankruptcy you display daily with contempt?

    Of course, in a trivial sense it’s understandable that you’d do it if you’re being paid for your efforts, but even if you can’t see (or care) that you’re actually harming the goals of the organization that employs you, surely your superiors should.

    Russian State television trapped its west leaning “liberals” by inviting them on talk shows and otherwise giving their views a wide airing. Net result? The Russian public developed the same contempt for them and their views that the “nationalists” have.

    Russian liberals and their backers took the bait. Are your superiors also so incompetent that they don’t see the trap?

    You and the enterprise you represent are genuinely puzzling to me.

    • Agree: Bill
    • Replies: @FB
    , @Parfois1
    , @voicum
  6. Sean says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    On the 3rd of February, ten days after air travel from Hubei to anywhere else in China was banned and traffic checkpoints restricting movement appeared in Beijing, China’s representatives on the World Health Organisation board insisted that there was no problem with international travel to and from China. Accordingly, that was the official advice the WHO put out.

    Not until the 27th of March did Xi place any restrictions on flights between China and America. If Trump had acted on Navarro’s 29th of January memo strongly advocating that Trump institute an immediate ban on air travel between China and the US, then many people’s lives would have been saved.

  7. Dr. Doom says:

    China and Russia are watching these riots.

    Lets see if Trump does anything.

    If these riots persist, Beijing and Moscow will see a paper tiger.

    Can Amerika be a “Superpower”, when it cannot even control its streets?

    • Replies: @Marshal Marlow
  8. @Godfree Roberts

    Xi, Li and the Politburo very well know that Covid-19 hugely affected migrants, farmers and small-scale family entrepreneurs. The risk of social unrest is very high. Unemployment protection is far from Scandinavian levels. So back to business, fast, has to be the top priority.

    Comments?

  9. I hope the Chinese government rounds up all the Hong Cucks and shoots them.

    And it’s about time Russia took the fifth-columnists and threw them into the middle of Caspian Sea.

    It is kill or be killed with the globalists. Just look at Syria. What horrors visited that nation due to Evil Empire of Jewish-controlled US.

    • Agree: GMC
    • Replies: @Rev. Spooner
  10. Anonymous[798] • Disclaimer says:
    @Svevlad

    Actually, they have nothing to do with the riots, and will remain hands off. Russia as well, hands off.

    After all, the riots are a completely homegrown American problem.

    In the very old days, during Cold War 1.0, the Soviets pointed out weaknesses in American society. They thought these factors would, in the long run, bring down America. Even the Chinese of back then agreed with the Soviets on this matter. Well, their timing was wrong.

    But their basic point was correct. The internal stresses will keep growing. They will not stop. One day, they will be too great.

    These riots are only the beginning.

    America is powerful, it is resilient, and still has life in it. It will not fall, not yet. Not for a while.

    But one day, since the social trajectory can’t be changed, the stress will be too much. It’s sooner than many realize. To repeat: These riots are only the beginning.

    • Agree: vox4non
    • Thanks: FB
    • Replies: @sally
  11. babbage says:

    Mr. Escobar, wait until after the election and see.

  12. @Sean

    Only Taiwan, Vietnam, Korea, and India, with their distrust of China escaped the straight-out-of-Wunan pandemic.

    Not true by a long shot.

    While not speaking to the economic consequences, and disregarding the insinuation that they were spurred by “distrust of China”, pretty much every nation in the entire Western Pacific and around the bend to the Indian Ocean escaped the worst medical ravages of Corona Chan.

    The list includes China, South Korea, Japan, Philippines, Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia, Australia, New Zealand, and so on all the way to India & Pakistan.

    While a few of these nations are still struggling in their efforts to keep a lid on the pandemic, they all so far have reported Corona Chan death rates at less than 10 per million population.

    Compare that to the experiences of Europe & North America, where the Corona Chan death rates are up in the 100’s per million population.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

    • Agree: Godfree Roberts
    • Replies: @Sean
    , @orionyx
  13. Miro23 says:

    The non-mention of the last theme is especially noticeable after Chancellor Merkel’s quite encouraging assessment earlier this week and EU foreign affairs chief Josep Borrell’s remark to a group of German ambassadors that “the end of an American-led system and the arrival of an Asian century” is now “happening in front of our eyes.”

    Confirming steady rumors emanating from Frankfurt, Berlin, Brussels and Paris, China and East Asia are taking precedence as the EU’s top trading partner. This is something that will be extensively discussed at the upcoming EU-China summit next autumn in Germany. The EU is going Eurasia. Team Trump won’t be amused.

    These are an interesting couple of paragraphs.

    Russia is already quite close to China. Places like Saudi Arabia and Iran already have China as their principal trading partner, and China is leading African development.

    That seems to leave the US with Israel, the Five Eyes, India and some vassal states in South America – not the right mix to dominate world trade and retain the dollar as the world’s reserve currency. If Europe goes for the “Asian century” then the logical outcome would be some sort of Euro/Yuan/Petro unit.

  14. @ThatDamnGood

    98% of migrants, farmers and small-scale family entrepreneurs own their homes free and clear and hold several times the personal savings of their US counterparts.

    They enjoy free medical care, free K-U education, and a guaranteed income, so most folk are doing better than their Western counterparts.

    Unrest is always possible, of course, but given its relationship to the people, the government has less to fear than most.

    • Replies: @Wood Stove
  15. FB says: • Website
    @Erebus

    That’s the question…

    Everybody knows ‘Sean’ is a shill…even Mr Unz has identified him as such, in a moment of exasperation…

    Yet ‘Sean’ just keeps plodding along like a Clydesdale…completely indifferent to the total lack of credibility he engenders…

    Here’s why his supervisors keep him on this website…because they are clueless…

    Here’s the logic…in order to drink the kool-aid you must, by definition believe in the ‘product’…now we all know that at some point it becomes impossible to keep on believing…yet some continue to…

    Ergo these are special people…

    Just as we cannot understand how they keep believing in the product, we likewise cannot understand how they can be so dumb as to continue failing in more and more obvious ways, here in their shilling efforts…

    Just like those neoliberal clowns keep coming back on the Russian talk shows, where they have long been nothing more than an object of ridicule…like our ‘Sean’…😅

  16. @Sean

    Canines have very low status in China, wild animals even more so.

    If I regarded any animal as low status, they certainly would not make it to my dinner table. Sounds like unfounded speculation to me.

    • Replies: @Wood Stove
    , @Erebus
  17. @Dr. Doom

    The US has a history of rioting and military killing their own citizens. However the existing system has always prevailed, so I doubt any other country will draw any conclusions from these riots.

    I think it would take an actual armed insurrection within the continental US before any other countries begin to wonder about what might be going on.

  18. FB says: • Website
    @Sean

    Holy jesus man…you’re like a broken record…

    When did Russia close its border and air travel to China…?

    It was January 31…

    So who was twisting Donald Trump’s arm to keep it open…?

    Why was Russia not ‘fooled’ by evil Xi…?

    You’re a fucking mental case…

    AND EVERYONE’S SICK OF THIS NON ISSUE

    • Replies: @Meena
  19. Wally says:
    @Sean

    said:
    “If Trump had acted on Navarro’s 29th of January memo strongly advocating that Trump institute an immediate ban on air travel between China and the US, then many people’s lives would have been saved.”

    – Pay attention dumsky, Trump did act.

    Trump banned travel from China on Jan. 31 …. in spite of vociferous Leftist criticism.

    before that:

    – Jan 14, WHO declared no evidence of human-to-human transmission of virus.
    – Jan 21, Dr. Fauci makes this statement about the Coronavirus: ““This is not a major threat to the people of the United States and this is not something that the citizens of the United States should be worried about right now,”
    – Jan 23, At an emergency committee convened by the World Health Organization, the WHO says that the Wuhan coronavirus does not yet constitute a public health emergency of international concern.
    – Jan 28, Chinese President Xi Jinping meets with WHO Director General Tedros Adhanom in Beijing. At the meeting, Xi and the WHO agree to send a team of international experts, including US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention staff, to China to investigate the coronavirus outbreak.
    Jan 29, The White House announces the formation of a special virus task force.

    • Replies: @Sean
    , @Sean
  20. gotmituns says:

    this is no big deal. everyone knows how those chinees are.

  21. > something must be blamed for the US’ appalling Covid-19 record…

    implying the doom flu wasn’t a totally media-engineered hoax…

    Ok boomer.

    • Agree: botazefa
  22. @Justsaying

    Sounds like someone hasn’t typed China into the liveleak searchbar.

    The Chinese have zero empathy whatsoever. What they do to animals would give anyone a one-way first class ticket straight to the lowest pit of hell.

    If you’d like to become more worldly, go watch some of these videos.

    • Replies: @ploni almoni
    , @Daemon
  23. @Godfree Roberts

    Imagine taking a poll seriously. Especially concerning China!

    But I don’t doubt the stat, it really proves how brainwashed those respective countries are. America is looking pretty good. Not trusting your government is a very sane thing to do. If you wouldn’t trust a stranger then why would you trust a government that created such a society?

    All that assuming it’s not completely made up, as many polls are.

    Polls do not reflect public opinion, they are psy-op tools used to manipulate public opinion by gently gaslighting you into believing some crazy idea is a norm shared by many people.

    Remember the “most women are bisexual” stat? Completely made up subversive lie to further sexualize and pornography society. As if it weren’t degenerate enough.

  24. antibeast says:
    @Sean

    If Trump had acted on Navarro’s 29th of January memo strongly advocating that Trump institute an immediate ban on air travel between China and the US, then many people’s lives would have been saved.

    If this is true, then why are you blaming China for Trump’s incompetence?

    • Agree: showmethereal
    • Replies: @Mary Marianne
  25. GMC says:

    If China doesn’t show every aspect of the US Military/ big pharma BioWeapons lab operations , that are working around the whole world , and continue to call them out – then it’s all huff and No Puff. Russia too – call them out just like they called you out with the fake Skripol case and the Syrian gaz attacks – or forget about it and …….

  26. @Wood Stove

    ???

    That was not a “made up stat”. Multiple studies from different authors have shown that women respond physiologically to multiple forms of sexual media, in a way that indicates arousal. They’re not just turned on by female-female porn, but by male-male porn and bestiality, as well. Ever wondered why the main participants and consumers of bestiality porn are females, and why virtually every “straight” woman has multiple gay male friends?

    You need to stop coping and hoping that nobody here would know any better. Women are LGBTQ. They’re fucking faggots, cunt. Why does the alt-right consist almost entirely of jilted individuals who are guided solely by a impulse to deny scientific facts that conflict with the alternate reality they are living in?

    • Thanks: Mefobills
  27. @Wood Stove

    The stats in that survey come from right-wing Pew Charitable Trusts and further-right-wing Taiwan.

    What evidence do you have that properly constructed and executed polls like theirs do not reflect public opinion?

    That they are psy-op tools used to manipulate public opinion by gently gaslighting you into believing some crazy idea is a norm shared by many people?

    Or are you just blowing smoke?

    • Replies: @frankie p
  28. @Sean

    It would have made no difference when Trump or China stopped air travel. Covid-19 was circulating in the US long before it reached China.

    Here are some random items to back that up:

    Francis Collins, director of the US National Institutes of Health, said the virus might have been spreading quietly in humans for years, or even decades, without causing a detectable outbreak. https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3077442/coronavirus-pathogen-could-have-been-spreading-humans-decades.

    Few U.S. adults say they’ve been diagnosed with coronavirus, but more than a quarter know someone who has. Only 2% of U.S. adults say they have been officially diagnosed with COVID-19, and 2% say they have taken a blood test that showed they have COVID-19 antibodies, an indication that they previously had the virus. But far more say they are “pretty sure” they had the virus despite not getting an official diagnosis or say they personally know someone who was diagnosed with it.https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/05/26/few-u-s-adults-say-theyve-been-diagnosed-with-coronavirus-but-more-than-a-quarter-know-someone-who-has/?utm_source=Pew+Research+Center&utm_campaign=ef5ba73bf3-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2020_05_29_05_11&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_3e953b9b70-ef5ba73bf3-399482577

    [MORE]

    CNN host Chris Cuomo said he believes there will be revelations showing the novel coronavirus was spreading in the United States as early as October. “The kids now anecdotally, Cristina believes, that at least two of them have had it in the last few months. Why? We don’t know, but atypically long-duration sinus, fever, lethargy. I think we’re going to learn that coronavirus has been in this country since, like, October, that there have been cases,” Cuomo said. “And as you guys both know, and I hear all the time from all over the country, how many people do you hear saying, ‘I think I had it, I had this and this, I lost my sense of smell and this and that, but I never got tested’? Those cases are, like, abounding all over the country,” he added. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/chris-cuomo-predicts-evidence-will-show-coronavirus-was-spreading-in-us-since-october.

    Belleville, NJ, Mayor Michael Melham said he has tested positive for coronavirus antibodies, adding that he believes he was sick with the virus in November — more than a month before doctors in China first reported cases of the new disease. Melham said he was sick toward the end of November and suffered from chills, hallucinations and a “skyrocketing temperature” after he left the League of Municipalities Conference in Atlantic City.Melham said it was the sickest he had ever been in his adult life. He did not take a flu test and said he did not travel overseas. Melham said he later suspected he had contracted the coronavirus in November but dismissed the notion because the earliest cases in the United States weren’t reported until January. His November illness is what prompted Melham to ask his doctor for the blood test. He got the results Wednesday.The mayor said it is entirely possible he was exposed to the coronavirus later and was asymptomatic, but felt it was “highly, highly unlikely.The antibody in my blood is older as opposed to the more recent one showing you just finished fighting it off,” Melham said.Melham believes he could potentially be an early, undetected case of the coronavirus.
    https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/essex/belleville/2020/04/30/belleville-nj-mayor-tests-positive-coronavirus-antibodies/3057925001/

    Coronavirus was in Florida before we knew it: A Miami Herald analysis shows state health officials have documented at least 170 COVID-19 patients reporting symptoms between Dec. 31, 2019, and Feb. 29. https://www.tampabay.com/news/health/2020/05/05/coranavirus-was-in-florida-before-we-knew-it/

    Florida coronavirus: Up to 171 cases detected in Jan. & Feb., health officials say
    TAMPA, Fla. (WFLA) – As many as 171 people in Florida may have been infected with COVID-19 months before officials said the virus was in the state, data shows. Records show that symptoms of coronavirus were reported to the state’s Department of Health as early as Jan. 1 – exactly two months before Gov. Ron DeSantis announced that the first two cases had been confirmed. According to state data, which was changed Monday to remove the date of symptoms reported, 171 people reporting symptoms in 40 counties across the state eventually tested positive for coronavirus.Those reporting early symptoms ranged in age from 4 to 91 years old.https://www.wfla.com/community/health/coronavirus/florida-coronavirus-up-to-171-cases-detected-in-jan-feb-health-officials-say/

    Santa Clara County Executive Jeff Smith has long asserted that the virus was circulating as far back as December, based on anecdotal accounts he gathered from urgent care doctors. The dates of these first confirmed cases support that infection and incubation timeline. “If the test was available back in December, and there hadn’t been restrictions, that would have helped us a lot,” he said. Stanford medical statistician Dr. John Ioannidis agreed, saying the autopsy reports corroborate his team’s controversial new findings, announced this week, of substantial prevalence of COVID-19 infections in Santa Clara County. Based on blood tests, they concluded that 48,000 to 81,000 residents were infected with the coronavirus in Santa Clara County by early April — suggesting the virus had an early start. “It is possible that the virus had been spreading unnoticed in Santa Clara for much longer than it was thought,” he said. “For a death to happen on February 6, the virus must have been spreading since January.”https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/04/22/what-we-know-about-the-bay-areas-first-covid-19-deaths/

    French doctors believe they may have treated coronavirus patients last fall.
    Video: https://youtu.be/XVZMb5oOOCE
    http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-05/08/c_139040660.htm
    In what would mark a massive shift in the timeline of coronavirus spread, French researchers believe there is evidence coronavirus may have been in Europe as early as November 2019. X-rays obtained exclusively by NBC News show two patients with symptoms in their lungs consistent with the novel coronavirus dated Nov. 16 and Nov. 18, months before COVID-19 was believed to be spreading in the country. Researchers from Colmar, France, announced the X-rays last week and are working to confirm whether the patients had coronavirus. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924857920301643
    The study comes in conjunction with a study by other French scientists who discovered last week that a coronavirus patient had been treated in the country in December. The doctors from the Groupe Hospitalier Paris Seine in Saint-Denis said a sample taken from a 42-year-old fishmonger admitted to the emergency room on Dec. 27 had tested positive for the coronavirus. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/new-evidence-race-find-france-s-covid-19-patient-zero-n1207871

    Anders Tegnell, Sweden’s chief epidemiologist, said coronavirus may have been circulating in the country since November https://www.ft.com/content/aba67162-9129-41b9-b82b-d61a890e6589

    Dr. Junya Fukushima (Gastroenterologist, University of Tsukuba). From fb, “In August 2019, the new coronavirus COVID-19 had invaded and spread in Japan.” In Japan, this year’s infection is the second wave. A large-scale antibody test is desirable in the future. #covid19. https://mobile.twitter.com/isaiah_sweetie/status/1257885191864897536

    The months of magical thinking: As the coronavirus swept over China, some experts were in denial
    By HELEN BRANSWELL @HelenBranswell
    Dear Ms Bramswell:
    Thank you for your piece, “The months of magical thinking”.
    .
    Your reportage of the timeline, as well as most others, has me asking whether this virus was actually widely circulating in Wuhan last fall. Just a bit of presumption on my part, but wouldn’t it HAD to have been infecting enough people for it to draw notice? And then to subsequently draw alarm by Dec? Do the math going backwards… With the extremely high transmission of this virus during its long incubation period, wouldn’t this virus have been infecting many who were traveling to various destinations throughout the world all throughout Sept, Oct, and Nov?
    .
    Wouldn’t it be possible, then, that it was also circulating here in the US during those months?
    .
    I am pretty certain I had covid 19 last Oct, Nov and most of Dec. I had all the symptoms, including some asthmatic reaction that was treated unsuccessfully with pregnazone. Fortunately, if it was the virus, I had a mild case in comparison to what I’ve read about.
    .
    At the same time that I had this mysterious respiratory flu, a friend of mine, who is a triage nurse in the busiest urgent care in CO, complained of seeing nearly an epidemic numbers of a similar ‘flu’ that didn’t test as influenza A or B, with the O2 levels so low, they sent them immediately to the ER. Since urgent cares don’t follow up on patients, she had no info on what happened after these patients were sent to the ER.
    .
    It only got worse in CO, and the urgent care was closed due to the pandemic. My friend was laid off and soon came down with what she believes was a mild case covid. She tried to get tested twice, but she didnt meet two of the criteria—she had no underlying condition and she had not traveled to China in the last month. Now, she’s recovered and would need a blood test to find out. As would I, when the antibodies tests come out.
    .
    What I’m getting at is that I think it’s been here in the US for much longer than just the beginning of 2020.
    .
    Are you seeing anything that supports my theory? And, if this is the case, what does that do to the whole pandemic curve? Are we even anywhere close to the projected peak?
    .
    Thanks for your time. Stephanie Ericsson APRIL 21, 2020 AT 6:48 AM
    https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/20/the-months-of-magical-thinking-as-the-coronavirus-swept-over-china-some-experts-were-in-denial-about-what-was-to-come/

    Patient Zero Video: https://youtu.be/3u4Mwi4tFT0

    • Thanks: FB, Iris
    • Replies: @Half-Jap
  29. sarz says:

    It’s really tough to parse “Confucianist neoliberalism”. Must not put more weight on words than they can bear.

    • Replies: @antibeast
  30. @Svevlad

    China would shake like a leaf if the US was in the hands of the real Americans instead of those turncoats!

    • LOL: bluedog
  31. Parfois1 says:
    @Erebus

    You (Sean) and the enterprise you represent are genuinely puzzling to me.

    But you might give credit to his obduracy though. “Empty vessels make the most noise” comes to mind.

    His role is similar to a vexing virus, ceaselessly sapping the reader’s immunity to inanities; in other words, microbe’s work.

  32. AnonCN says:

    ‘98% of migrants, farmers and small-scale family entrepreneurs own their homes free and clear and hold several times the personal savings of their US counterparts.’
    ——–Yes, if you mean the houses at their hometown. Yes, savings of the US counterparts.
    ‘They enjoy free medical care, free K-U education, and a guaranteed income, so most folk are doing better than their Western counterparts.’
    ——–Yes, medical care for all of us, but not 100% free, we are not that rich/extravagant. free K-U education? not so sure, in my school days, its 9 years free education, 7 years paid education but quite affordable for lower income familiar. Again not a rich country to support that extravagant.
    ‘Unrest is always possible, of course, but given its relationship to the people, the government has less to fear than most.’
    ——–Given the government has more responsibilities for its people, it may has the same fear for unrest. People perform under different standards though they get same credit.
    It’s very fair for China to get lower credit while perform better since their is a different standard waiting for China. Speaking of this, I feel proud and sad.

    ‘But I don’t doubt the stat, it really proves how brainwashed those respective countries are. America is looking pretty good. Not trusting your government is a very sane thing to do. If you wouldn’t trust a stranger then why would you trust a government that created such a society?’
    ——–You think I am brainwashed, I think you are brainwashed. But I can speak your language, you can’t speak mine. See the difference here? But OK, We both agree America is looking pretty good, since America has different standard for itself. Not trusting your government is a very sane thing to do when your government is not trust worthy. While projection is not always a sane thing to do. I don’t trust a stranger simply because he is a stranger, no matter what kind of society I live, not matter whomever created the society. Ang stranger can win my trust through further acquaintance process. I trust the government nowadays because this government thing is around us for thousands of years, definitely not a stranger anymore, so I can judge whether its trust worthy these days or not anymore some other days.

    You sound like you live among trust worthy strangers while your government has no trust.
    Why your no trust government can create a society full of trust worthy strangers?

    • Agree: Godfree Roberts
  33. AnonCN says:

    @Sean
    Your behavior of blaming China show us Chinese clearly that US has lost its confidence and senses. So that you don’t respect facts any more, you full of BS.
    Once upon a time, US people respected science and logic, get clues from fact, and we admire that very much. What happened these years?
    As I am partially nationalist, I do hope that US is full of people like you, and people like Godfree should be muted/expelled by US society. LOL LOL LOL

    • Replies: @botazefa
  34. Sean says:
    @Wally

    Trump’s order on the 31st of January was only a ban for foreign nationals. It exempted U.S. citizens, permanent residents and their families. Almost half a million ethnic Chinese flew from China into America after the 31st of January. So it was not what Navarro recommended, which is unfortunate because a lot of people have died as a result.

  35. @antibeast

    Sean likes to pretend that there is only one vassal state called Chimerica, controlled by the big bad UN/WHO tyranny, but the fact is that we are dealing with two sovereign countries, China and the USA, who are both free to make decisions for themselves regarding internal, inbound and outbound migration, and the WHO only has an advisory role, and makes (sometimes faulty) recommendations based on the limited data that it can collect.

  36. Erebus says:
    @Justsaying

    Sounds like unfounded speculation to me.

    Wrong. He copy-pasted that from his talking points memo.

    Judging by the number of doggie pet salons in my neighbourhood, and the numbers of over-coiffed dogs walking around, the “low status” meme is something Sean’s supervisor sucked out of his thumb.

  37. crh says:

    Stopped reading Escobar long before he made it to the pages of Unz. Face it, if he actually criticized the CCP in any meaningful way he’d be back in Barcelona by nightfall and never be allowed back into the country. He NEVER seriously criticizes China.

    I used to think Russia and China really had some new strong accommodation worked out between them but I don’t think so anymore. Russia knows exactly what the end game is for a communist government, that’s why Russia’s happy to sleep with China but never stay overnight.

    When the Soviet disbanded, Russia went on a fantastic training programme. They shed troublesome, largely incompatible territories and useless dependencies while arranging a more formidable industrial, resource and monetary policy, coming out far more lean and mean. The US will have to do the same thing or it will fragment far more. But the Chinese Communists? Communists don’t do populist reforms (besides the one that puts them in power), they merely talk alot about them. At the moment when they could reach for the brass ring, the CCP are becoming their most monolithic. Rough timing.

    • Replies: @Mefobills
  38. @Wood Stove

    People with no empathy should be nuked.

    • Replies: @orionyx
  39. Sean says:
    @Wally

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-health-who/who-chief-says-widespread-travel-bans-not-needed-to-beat-china-virus-idUSKBN1ZX1H3

    World Health Organization chief Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said on Monday there was no need for measures that “unnecessarily interfere with international travel and trade” in trying to halt the spread of a coronavirus

    That was on the 3rd of February, ten days after Hubei was air quarantined and Beijing had roadblocks. Trump incorporated the advice of the Word Health Organisation into his 31st of January restrictions and as can be seen they were not even happy with the rather relaxed restrictions he initially ordered, making Trump think he had taken a hard line. But, unbeknownst to him, the opinion of the WHO was not reached though proper examination of the scientific evidence; Chinese WHO board members used pressure and disinformation to get the organisation’s chief to oppose anything that might have been really effective. Navarro asked for far, far tougher curbs on flying into America from China than Trump actually ordered on the 31st. Navarro was to be proved right, but tragically too late for his accurate perception to save thousands upon thousands of people.

  40. Mr. Escobar really needs to escape the antiquated nation state paradigm. The international bankers and their billionaire run corporate entities have designated China as the new “it” pretend country. Li can have his pretend dynasty, but he’ll still be a mere tool. Also if you haven’t notice we here in the US are getting our color flagged revolution. We are past our usefulness date, but still have plenty of farm ground and water resources still in private hands just ripe for the taking.

    On a side note have any physical banks gone down to the hoards of looters?

  41. Daemon says:
    @Wood Stove

    Confirmation bias makes you see what you want to see. You hate the chinese, so those twisted individuals on liveleak gets projected across the entire race.
    By that same token, I can go browse WorldStarHipHop (or just the regular news) and decide that all americans are feral, swarthy anarchists incapable of acting like civilized human beings.

    • Thanks: showmethereal
  42. They are all in on the scam, China, ZUS, Russia, Israel, ZBritain, Germany, ZFrance etc., all are under zionist control and all this talk of war and coronavirus is all a scam to bring a zionist one world government under UN Agenda 2030, if interested google and read it.

  43. @Ben_C

    I’m starting to develop a pavlovian nausea response to images of that big fat stupid lying gangster pig “we lie, we cheat, we steal” Pompeo.

    How is it that individuals like that manage to stay alive so long?

    Al Capone was an angel in comparison, and yet he still eventually got his come-uppance. Maybe Al Capone’s failure was that he just wasn’t bad enough.

  44. antibeast says:
    @sarz

    It’s really tough to parse “Confucianist neoliberalism”. Must not put more weight on words than they can bear.

    Escobar should have used the term “Confucianist neosocialism” to reflect the nature (“neosocialist”) and character (“Confucianist”) of the Chinese State.

  45. @Really No Shit

    China would shake like a leaf…

    “Why can’t we all just get along?”

    – quoting Jack Nicholson, in the movie “Mars Attacks”.

    • Replies: @Really No Shit
  46. jsinton says:

    Sure. Whatever you say. The game is not “chess” Mr. Spock. The game is “poker”.”

  47. Agent76 says:

    May 30, 2020 China Must “Prepare for War:” Xi Jinping | India and China Military Build Up

    Chinese leader Xi Jinping is telling the military, the People’s Liberation Army, to prepare for war! This comes as a growing border dispute between India and China, and threats of invasion of Taiwan threaten the global order and peace. Meanwhile, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo tells Congress Hong Kong is no longer autonomous from Mainland China.

  48. @Priss Factor

    In the USA the creamy layer is really putrid and this wealthy putrid layer (mostly jewish) has to be skimmed off. Anyway. you cannot make broken eggs with whole milk.

  49. denk says:
    @Really No Shit

    China would shake like a leaf if the US was in the hands of the real Americans

    So when are you gonna get rid of those turncoats, macho man ?

    If shithead like you’r supposed to be the real murikkans then the Chinese have nuthin to worry about.

    hehehehhe

    • Replies: @Really No Shit
  50. Meena says:
    @FB

    Never have to say you are sorry or wrong ! Always it is someone else .

    Fast backward – Neocons started blaming Bush jr for failures in Iraq – for chaos,riot,death,lack of reconstruction, torture in Abu Gharib etc etc . Never they acknowledged that Bush followed neocons advice to the tee,to the last letter . Even though some of those Israeli advices like instigating riots and enabling sexual violence and engineering riot were against Bush jr’s nature .

  51. @ThatDamnGood

    That’s why starvation scenario is ever present.

  52. While the rabid left continues to sell fear that Trump is Hitler, cooler heads figured out early on he was a blustery weakling.

    Had the Orange Jester proved strong and capable, we were (still) never going to vote our way out of this.

    Shlomo’s demographic invasion policies will end all majority-hwite nations. God promised no more deaths by flood, but only of water. He said nothing about a lethal flood of diversity.

    • Replies: @Meena
  53. Abhraka says:

    Indeed the human mind builds sand-castles and this one is difficult to ignore. As soon as the ”
    appalling” reference is bandied you are in for a tour ad absurdum. We hold these truths to be self evident:

    [MORE]

    The USA is controlled or better owned by intl. capital mainly affiliated with
    The owners and controllers of the Greater Israel.
    The virus was known about for months and was purposely spread long before Wuhan
    was in the headlines. Escobar’s implication that someone flubbed-up in such
    a carefully planned operation is beyond comment.
    The “appalling” handling of the fake-epidemic is plainly a propaganda ploy similar
    in scope to 9/11 where the facts are so distorted and obscured that nothing reported
    is verifiable except this simple realization that the press is a lie machine that literally
    produces fictions about which only conjecture as to their brazenness can be spoken.
    China has no way to avoid being torn to pieces since if it entertains the idea of cultural
    national sovereignty having already allowed the aforementioned moguls of Intl. finance
    to slurk and slither within its boarders this WW-bioweapon announcement cannot
    be answered. A kid with a bull horn is standing at the corner announcing:” the adoption of the tactic of guerrilla warfare previously held as the great thorn-in-the-side of conventional armies has now been fully co-opted by the corporate plutocracy by means of the bio-terrorism technology which renders all nation states abject vassals to it’s power “.
    Hey Pepe read Snow Crash all of this was anticipated as the most probable evolution for man’s exploitation of man. Even Dimitri Orlov who refrains from characterizing the “means” for the predictable end offhandedly proffers that of course bio-terrorism is the expected escape for the
    masters of ponzi whose addiction to looting grows always more voracious.
    It is really comical that a writer on UNZ the very platform that dares define the nature (thoroughly analyzed by Arendt in O. of Total. ) of the total anonymity and barbaric sadistic indifference to any consequences produced would dare define conflict on the basis of the Nation State facade. This is the very axiom of the political sophistication within Unz Review these forces
    own China and the USA. Look Pepe ; Then built-up GB and then smashed it and moved to New York. Then they built up Disneyland (looting to the last paisa) over here and then smashed this joint
    and moved over to China….and now… right before our very eyes the autistic kid shot up with the vaccine from TEVA The company started by Rahm Israel Emanuel the ex-mayor of Chicago now run by a Pritzker (Obama’s sponsors who looted that bank and invented the Swap Derivative-yeah
    those Jews connected to the hunken General Dynamics) is standing with his\her bullhorn announcing:”we are smashing China now and moving to India”…but if you have ever been to India
    you know that the real live Israelis have been grooming that place for decades the octopus the strings controlling the hand wearing the exterior-ly brand recognized glove will be used to loot make wars and create appalling violence. However in La Noche de la Boca Arriba Julio Cortazar clearly expounds that since the Aztecs and Incas only the technology changes. MIT is not an incredible enterprise of mind mindbogglingly technical miracles it’s a bunch of indoctrinated cowardly dehumanized dominated abject serfs of diabolical enslavement greed and bewildered worship of fake legitimacy. The institutions that rest on a presumption of the legitimacy of Nation State protection of human populations is A Disneyland addict snorting PCP. Stay high Pepe as long as you can.

  54. Anonymous[798] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean

    You know, I think I am starting to get your style, “Sean”.

    You’re implementing that time-tested propaganda method of “never be defensive, always be on the attack”. As in, dispense with reason and logic in advancing your views, simply attack, constantly, your target. In this case, China’s pandemic response, and more broadly, China itself.

    That’s a classic propaganda technique. You hope to force logical people, who have assessed the actions of the U.S. and China fairly, onto the defensive.

    You seek to have people spend their time and effort answering baseless statements and warped views, leaving you firmly in control of the discussion. CLASSIC, well-known propaganda/media warfare.

    After all, you, with your sheer output, always have the initiative, and never have to be on the defensive regarding the questions others put to you. You assume the role of prosecutor, and never have to take the stand yourself. Propaganda 101, right?

    There’s only one problem. People on this site are figuring you out, and more importantly the techniques you use.

    They will no longer play defense, many posters here will play offense, increasingly. They will attack your side as relentlessly as you attack theirs. You cannot beat facts and logic with sheer aggressive persistence, hammering away at the same points until people give up.

    They will never give up, since the very facts will not let them. People get it, your mind is made up and you wish to push your views non-stop, the same points over and over and over.

    It’s now an endurance contest. “Sean” vs other posters on this site.

    • Replies: @FB
  55. Mefobills says:
    @crh

    I used to think Russia and China really had some new strong accommodation worked out between them but I don’t think so anymore.

    Russia is wisely becoming more autarkial, but there are still many linkages to China. A double helix is probably too strong a metaphor, but there are strong connections between the two states.

    American deep state has come to the same conclusion, hence the breaking of Soviet/American treaties, as it is now Russia/China vs America.

    But the Chinese Communists? Communists don’t do populist reforms (besides the one that puts them in power), they merely talk alot about them. At the moment when they could reach for the brass ring, the CCP are becoming their most monolithic. Rough timing.

    I used to think that too, witness the sclerotic Soviet Politburo. But, the Chinese communists have gone through massive changes, and are flexible. I don’t understand how that is so, but some Chinese nationals talk about it in Pilger’s documentary.

    http://johnpilger.com/videos/the-coming-war-on-china

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Parfois1
  56. Meena says:
    @Wood Stove

    “ America is looking pretty good. Not trusting your government is a very sane thing to do. If”

    So that everyday ,you can tell yourself : “ look I didn’t trust them . It’s all my fault that I voted them to power “ . And so on and on and on for next 19 just like previous 19 years.

  57. Meena says:
    @Sick of Orcs

    Trump can and has polarized . He can and has incited wars , a domestic tribal war.

    He validates criminal minds . He divines and sanitizes those with arrested development gripped with mindset of reaching a solution for shitful lives through blaming other with hatred and entitlements.

  58. @Ultrafart the Brave

    Didn’t Rodney King say the same thing after getting a good whopping from LA cops back in the day?

    • Replies: @Ultrafart the Brave
  59. @denk

    Another dirty rat from China … don’t you worry panda boy because another virus is coming your way to finish off the job!

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @denk
  60. @Sean

    Since when have you cared how many people die?

    • Replies: @Sean
  61. Wally says:
    @Sean

    Oh yawn.

    Trump would not, could not prevent Americans from returning and those who had legally booked flights and travel arrangments in advance.

    The point is that Trump did ban fights, in spite of leftist / media / Deep Swamp protests, preventing even larger infections.

    To criticize Trump for being humane in his initial enforcement is insincere. and ignores the massive pressure he was under to NOT ban anyone from anywhere.

  62. d dan says:

    The author says:

    “Beijing Sees Trump’s Hand and Won’t Fold”

    Beijing is quite rightfully surprised by the “mildness” of Trump’s reactions on Hong Kong’s security laws. They expected a range of actions from Trump, e.g. tariffs (Trump’s favorite), sanctions of companies (Commerce Department’s favorite), arrests and charging of key players (Justice Department’s favorite), military/geo-politics pressures (Pentagon & States Department’s favorite), … Instead, what they got was some vague threats of ending of Hong Kong’s special treatments in future undetermined date. It must be a HUGE disappointment to all those anti-China hawks.

    Why? Because:

    1. US has been firing on all its cylinders against China in the last 2 years: economically, commercially, diplomatically, technologically, legally, financially, militarily,… So it is rapidly running out of bullets.
    2. Trump wants to preserve its Phase 1 trade agreement with China: he feels it is his “greatest achievement” (LOL).
    3. US has a big trade surplus with Hong Kong, i.e. $30 billions.
    4. Wall Street has huge interests in Hong Kong.
    5. CIA and US embassy still have lots of personnel and investments in Hong Kong – it is not ready to jeopardize them yet.

  63. rjjcda says:

    It is not Pepe’s flagrant sycophantic worshiping of China that impels his articles. No, it is the rampant and obsessive anti-Americanism that appears to drive his thought. Sad.

  64. Sean says:
    @ploni almoni

    I don’t think China spread coronavirus to America deliberately any more than Officer Chauvin asphyxiated a six foot six African American man deliberately. However, both Chauvin and China ought to have the generosity of spirit to have considerations beyond minimising all inconvenience to themselves. Such as how others might be suffering. It was their defensiveness that led both of them to fall well short of what we expect. China has not learned its lesson.

    https://www.unz.com/pescobar/beijing-sees-trumps-hand-and-wont-fold/
    Seeking to mark an anniversary of the European Union’s relations with China on May 6, he and the EU’s 27 ambassadors co-wrote an opinion piece titled “EU-China ties vital amid global crisis,” for publication on embassy websites and in China Daily, an English-language newspaper controlled by the state. “The outbreak of the coronavirus in China, and its subsequent spread to the rest of the world over the past three months,” said the carefully orchestrated piece, had “temporarily side-tracked” plans for meetings. But in the China Daily version, the reference to the virus starting in China was deleted

    China is falling into (forgive the pun) Chauvinism.

    IF civilization is a necessary course of development from the family to humanity as a whole, then […] there is inextricably bound up with it an increase of the sense of guilt, which will perhaps reach heights that the individual finds hard to tolerate. (Freud 1962, pp. 79-80)

    East Asians might seem to be an exception to this evolutionary trend. They generally live in large communities where paternal authority is insufficient to enforce social rules. This problem seems to have been resolved through a stronger sense of social duty, rather than a greater propensity for empathy and guilt. We see this in a study of young Chinese adults. The participants could see things from another person’s perspective and understand how that person felt, but they did not seem to internalize those feelings and experience them vicariously. They were motivated to obey social rules by a sense of duty, rather than by empathy and feelings of guilt

    I was wrong about Xi being mistranslated when he spoke of his officials as wolves, it is a film reference. https://youtu.be/6e-LAE9eTQY?t=46

  65. Anonymous[798] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mefobills

    But, the Chinese communists have gone through massive changes, and are flexible. I don’t understand how that is so

    Think on this, see if it makes some sense – you may agree with it to some extent.

    In human affairs – politics, economics, society – the West formulates beautiful, pure theoretical constructs, and then attempts to put these into successful practice. In effect, we make a noble effort to impose our vision (whatever the vision – democratic capitalism, socialism, even fascism) on the real world.

    In China, they first find out what works in reality, then formulate theory based on what they saw work in the real world. In effect, the Chinese give way to reality, and let it drive theory. That giving way seems to us passive, but to the Chinese, they see going against the real world as doomed – so they don’t.

    I think I read something funny somewhere, words to this effect: “You know what’s so wrong with the Chinese? They don’t care about being true to a philosophy, any philosophy. They’ll always just do what works.”

    IMHO, we should all prioritize “what works”.

    • Agree: vox4non, Godfree Roberts
    • Thanks: Mefobills
    • Replies: @frankie p
    , @Erebus
  66. A lot of “the enemy of my enemy in my friend” thinking creeping into the comments threads on this site. Just because China is opposed to some western liberal regimes doesn’t mean they have an interest in helping nationalists in other countries. Since the early 1990s they have been quite happy to push immigration onto western countries, and promote economic globalisation in their own national interest. You don’t see the Chinese opposing Asian immigration into Australia and Canada, or telling Africa and Latin America to adopt state capitalism. And in the UK Commonwealth they are quite happy to work with left-liberal politicians and academics who detest western nationalists but are sympathetic towards China out of spite or ignorance. Nationalism for me but not for thee.

    To the extent that an Asian country can be called a friend of western nationalists, its Japan, not China. At least the Japanese aren’t flooding into the West and are reasonably consistent in their ideological stances.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
    , @FB
  67. Anonymous[798] • Disclaimer says:
    @Really No Shit

    Another dirty rat from China … don’t you worry panda boy because another virus is coming your way to finish off the job!

    Is that an admission that America launched Biological Warfare in Wuhan, during Chinese New Year, against China?

    Hey, wait a minute, Really No Shit . . . do you know something the rest of us don’t?

    Please share what you know, and how you know it.

    • Replies: @Really No Shit
  68. Derer says:

    “…test nuclear bombs again. Not against a bunch of low-life “terrorists,” but against a serious, peer-competitor: the Eurasian strategic partnership.”

    This is an amateurish statement that do not recognize the NATO military alliance membership. However, US has no business to use the Hong Kong card at all. For practical purposes the Hong Kong and even Taiwan is China – forget it, peeing against the wind is insane.

    As far as China’s economic rise with the US help over the past decades, ask the architect as to what was the intention/benefits of this criminal policy, Kissinger is still alive.

  69. frankie p says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    “further-right-wing Taiwan.”

    Godfree, what universe do you inhabit? Taiwan is right wing?
    Top down DPP tactics pushing legal gay marriage is right wing?
    Pushing itself as the human rights champion of Asia is right wing?
    Media coverage (besides that controlled by China) that pretty much mirrors the garbage coming out of the (((western))) media is right wing?
    The swallowing of neo-liberal narratives pushed by establishment USA hook, line, and sinker is right wing?

    I’ve been here for over 30 years, and that’s news to me!!!

    Explain

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  70. FB says: • Website
    @Anonymous

    Well…I didn’t think it was possible, but you just made ‘Sean’ sound positively intelligent…

    Let me nip this notion in the bud, right now…’Sean’ is definitely on the retarded end of the autism spectrum…he’s like an idiot savant, but without the ‘savant’ part…

    He has no ‘plan’ nor ‘strategy’…he is simply handed a bunch of idiotic talking points by his supervisors…at one point he even discussed on this forum how the Covid impact on the economy might affect his employment as a troll…true story, you can look it up in the comments history…

  71. @alt right moderate

    Japanese aren’t “flooding” because their living standard is almost as high as the USA. By the way, i disagree with the term flooding 😎

    The problem is USA doesn’t want China to have any where close to our living standards. Just 25% = same economy as ours. 50% of our living standard = twice our economy. Almost the same = 400% of our national economy.

    Do you understand yet?

  72. @frankie p

    I should have said that Taiwan aligns itself with right wing elements to attack the PRC.

  73. FB says: • Website
    @alt right moderate

    I’d be interested in hearing just who you *think* is actually responsible for US immigration…

    I would bet dollars to donuts that I will hear from various ‘alt righters’ that it’s Jews, blacks, leftists and liberals…

    But never will they get the right answer which is Wall Street and Big Business…and of course it’s these plutocrats that own the government and set policy…

    I only say this because I’m sick of hearing this retarded noise…and now, even China is forcing immigrants onto King Bezos and the rest of the billionaire gang…who are of course being forced… *forced* I tell you…into accepting brown immigrants who will work for peanuts…

    When will our poor billionaires finally get a fucking break and be able to tell the Jews and the blacks and the Chinks that they just won’t take any more immigrants…?

    That enough is enough and they just want to pay American workers a decent living wage and to heck with immigration and offshoring…?

    • Replies: @frankie p
  74. Flubber says:
    @Svevlad

    Its simple abnd been said many times

    Diversity + Proximity = War

    As was intended.

    The Bolsheviks will stand on the ashes and proclaim victory.

  75. Parfois1 says:
    @Mefobills

    … the Chinese communists have gone through massive changes, and are flexible. I don’t understand how that is so, but some Chinese nationals talk about it in Pilger’s documentary.

    You don’t understand because you – like most people under Western Capitalism’s official propaganda – never bothered to find out that Communism is not that “monolithic totalitarian ogre” as you suggest by the cliched “sclerotic Soviet Politburo”.

    For most people, especially in the US where there was never a significant leftist movement, Communism is an immovable monolith in all its aspects and manifestations and was simply pure evil (because it was “atheistic” and totalitarian by definition), and that therefore all Communism was necessarily the same. The Europeans (the source of theoretical Communism – empirical proto-Communism had been practised by many societies since the earliest periods of human existence) recognized and many experienced the large spectrum of communist tendencies and adaptations to local realities.

    Even the unifying and foundational theoretical doctrine of Communism, Marxist dialectics, is extremely diverse and malleable to suit the requirements of time and locale. As early as August 1917, Stalin had already stated that:

    “There is a dogmatic Marxism and a creative Marxism; I stand by the latter”

    and Lenin pushed for the “capitalist road” in 1921 with the New Economic Policy and a money-economy to replace the “War Communism” in force during the Civil War, that is, from an “ideal Communism” where all resources were distributed equally to all people and no currency, to a “pragmatic Communism” where the State only retained responsibility for heavy industry, transport, banking and foreign trade.

    Communism is a goal, not a practice, and there are many roads to reach that goal. If we want to find out more about the world we live in and search for alternatives to improve it, we have to firstly stop equating Communism with badness and then honestly learn what it can offer to elevate the human condition.

    • Agree: Erebus, Biff
    • Thanks: Iris
    • Replies: @FB
    , @Wood Stove
  76. Erebus says:
    @Anonymous

    They’ll always just do what works.

    And when it doesn’t work as well hoped, they’ll iterate until it does or abandon it if looks like it won’t.

    Deng called it “crossing the river by feeling the stones”, Xi cemented the principle in place under his “Pragmatic Socialism” rubric. Every policy and initiative gets tested in limited “test zones”, and adjusted appropriately before being rolled out elsewhere.

    That’s how they went from being one of the 5 poorest countries in the world in 1980 to being the wealthiest less than 2 generations later.

  77. FB says: • Website
    @Parfois1

    If we want to find out more about the world we live in and search for alternatives to improve it, we have to firstly stop equating Communism with badness and then honestly learn what it can offer to elevate the human condition

    Exactly…

    The funny thing is, most of these people who think communism ‘doesn’t work’ don’t actually know the first thing about it…

    Meef is actually much more sophisticated than that, but the word itself is so heavily freighted that it becomes off putting even to use it…

    It just goes to show you the depth of the Pavlovian conditioning that the people have been subjected to…

    I never tire telling people about my time in East Germany as an exchange student…the best year of my life…Westerners simply don’t understand what an amazing society that was…it just blew my mind to see just how well these people knew how to live…

    Was it perfect for everyone…?…of course not…but even three decades later, the majority of those who lived through it would still choose to go back…

    What the CPC has been doing with great success is evolving that system…sure there have been some stops and starts…for instance the Deng reforms are now mostly seen as a wrong turn, and Xi appears to be making the course correction…

    The future of humanity is socialism…it’s encouraging that the young generation isn’t hamstrung by the propaganda hangups…

    • Agree: Jazman
    • Thanks: bluedog
  78. denk says:
    @Really No Shit

    Another dirty rat from China … don’t you worry panda boy because another virus is coming your way to finish off the job!

    So you have no balls to face off your ‘turncoats’, but take it out on the Chinese ?

    What a tough guy,
    mofo !

    • Replies: @Really No Shit
  79. sally says:
    @Anonymous

    After all, the riots are a completely homegrown American problem. <= no they are problems produced by the USA and left for Americans to solve. .

    America used to be powerful, but as of now, it has no leadership, its like a ship after a terrible storm, left resting on the top of a rise in the ocean floor that is an island in peaceful times but submerged in challenging times. . America is tottering on that knoll without the ocean water to help it float again, no one can fix it, until the next storm.

    Americans have been decimated, their pockets picked by the corporate bandits, its job producing industries raped and transported to far off lands. The good ship America is grounded, its Captain and her crews too busy with their corruption to notice or to care. Much of the productive capacity of America has been rolled up into Oligarch owned monopoly sustained corporate power palaces, and these palaces have all been hidden by the elected, wage earning, 527 middle people, so they can be re elected to continue their corruptions..

    Not a voice is allowed to be heard, no one is allowed to object To breath in America takes a license, to get a job a 4 year course of propaganda, to get a high level academic degree in a USA funded University one must be from a foreign nation, and to stay out of jail requires to hide, … until called by name to perform.

    There is a giant difference between the USA and America, between the corporate powers that control the USA and the everyday Americans that are constrained by the USA and driven into the corporate corals. The USA is ephemeral, its time as a government, is limited, while America and the humans that make it great, when they are allowed to perform, are everlasting.

  80. @Parfois1

    we have to firstly stop equating Communism with badness and then honestly learn what it can offer to elevate the human condition

    I equate communism with torture, terror, mass murder, slavery, and war because that is precisely what it accomplishes wherever it has killed its way to power.

    Not only that, but this is precisely what communism was designed to accomplish. All the sweet talk about equality and wealth redistribution are just silly lies for silly people like you to believe. But those lies don’t mean a thing to the people who had to experience communism.

    Communism was designed by jews as a means to enslave gentiles in order to prepare the world for their messianic (satanic) age where they would rule the goyim out of jerusalem. That is why zionism and communism are intimately linked.

  81. Sean says:
    @Ultrafart the Brave

    Taiwan has a total of seven COVID-19 deaths, despite being excluded from the World Health Organisation. Hardly the most persuasive evidence of the WHO’s CCP-informed advice being particularly useful.

    In 2019 Italy became the first European power to join China’s Belt and Road Initiative. Italy banned flights from Taiwan during the epidemic because it treats Taiwan as the province of China that the CCP says it is. There have been over 33,000 Italian deaths from COVID-19 .

    The WHO Country Office in China was first informed of the novel Wuhan disease on 31 December 2019. A curious date, and to my mind one which does little to ally the suspicion that China had sat on the information for a significant number of days, maybe weeks.

  82. Half-Jap says:
    @Sean

    As you can see from Roberts’ response, he shifts the issue and does not address it. He is another ol’ Sophist doing as Sophist does. Even if flights from the city was stopped or any movement blocked, Trump’s trust in and assertions by the WHO as well as open international travel from other cities are concerning issues, and some may view this as malicious, if not grossly negligent, by China.
    Much harm to the US as well as reputational damage to China could have been avoided or minimized, but nope. Was China malicious or had to save face? I would never accuse the Chinese of ignorance 😛

    • Replies: @Erebus
    , @d dan
  83. Half-Jap says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Your references are inadequate regarding the detection of the virus, until one can establish the accuracy and error rates, both false positive and negative, as well as specificity. As we know, there are plenty of corona viri out there. There are disparate studies, but the PCR has not been developed towards this end, while antibodies are only a sign of past infection, while it is also not established regarding the specificity towards this so-called novel corona virus, which (in Ze Frank’s voice) also has likely mutated once or more as typical viri do.
    As I’ve said, things are not in absolutes. Your faith in faith-based ‘science’ is not a fault of yours, but widely shared, but it must be said nevertheless.

  84. Parfois1 says:
    @FB

    What the CPC has been doing with great success is evolving that system…sure there have been some stops and starts…for instance the Deng reforms are now mostly seen as a wrong turn, and Xi appears to be making the course correction…

    I used Stalin’s quote about “dogmatic Marxism” to highlight the general perception (even among committed Communists) that there is only one way towards Communism as if anyone knew what Communism is supposed to be or the formula to get there. Marx made some suggestive previews about the “demise of the state”, “to each according to his needs” and similar visions of social harmony and well-being, perhaps inspired by Sir Thomas More’s vision of a perfect society, but no predictions. Once again the pragmatic Stalin comes up with the best description: “Communism is what we construct”, that is, whatever suits you after you eliminate the power of privilege and wealth. For such tunnel-vision viewers any other course is a deviation, as Deng’s risky opening of China to the “capitalist roaders”. From a “dogmatic’ single-way perspective, that was a betrayal of the Chinese Revolution but history may prove his turn right if Chinese society’s needed the “private enterprise” stimulus to change gears from “one step back, two steps forward” under Mao to a continuous “two steps forward” and bring higher standards of living to the Chinese people albeit to the detriment of ideological purity.

    In such matters there are no “right” or “wrong” for anyone to discuss or judge outside China and its people: it’s their business how they want to be governed. They made a choice with their War of Liberation and victory at Liaohsi in 1948, the same way the Russians made theirs by the Reds victory over the Whites in 1921.

    What I find most amazing is the number of commenters here (probably unrepentant Nazi bad-losers) who arrogate to themselves the right to judge how all other countries should be ruled because of their impotence to change their won.

    • Thanks: Iris
  85. @Anonymous

    No, the virus didn’t come from America but from the incompetent lab in Wuhan but the same idiots will let loose another weapon on its own people … and that will fix their overpopulation problem.

    • Troll: Erebus
    • Replies: @Rabbitnexus
  86. @denk

    One thing at a time … first the Chinese and then the domesticated rats … any more questions?

    • Troll: Erebus
    • Replies: @denk
  87. Erebus says:
    @FB

    It just goes to show you the depth of the Pavlovian conditioning that the people have been subjected to…

    … and right on cue, Wood Stove broke into a chimney fire, followed by a meltdown @#85.

    I was behind the Iron Curtain in the ’80s for a funeral. My guesstimate at the time was that they were somewhere in the West’s ’60s in terms of material living standards (cars, TVs, etc), but like you say made up for that by living a better way of life. I was particularly surprised at the level of political awareness and the wide range of topics an ordinary person could discuss intelligently. I’m now not surprised that some of those who remember it would happily turn the clock back.

    What the CPC has been doing with great success is evolving that system…

    … and evolving itself and its modi operandi as the country develops. Xi’s great contribution has been to place the notion of continuous, reality based evolution of the country and its govt at the centre of governance. As long as they can keep it there, China will remain an example to the world.

    • Replies: @FB
  88. At this point I think that it’s good if Trump loses the election. It was his to lose and lose it he will. A derranged VP running the show will accelerate the fall of the evil empire and that’s good. The empire cannot be fixed from within or from the outside, it simply needs to implode before it causes any more major troubles. I look forward to an angry black female VP running the show (into the ground).
    Trump had his chance, he royally f… it up.

  89. Erebus says:
    @Half-Jap

    One shakes one’s head at the imbecility some commenters here want to reduce the discussion to. Doubtless, so they can compete.

    There was an epidemic outbreak in Hubei, and it was cordoned off as soon as it was recognized as such. In fact, almost all of Hubei’s cases were within Wuhan. There was no outbreak anywhere else in China that rose above the statistical background noise of flu season.

    Simply put, a local outbreak of flu, however “novel” it may be does not warrant a shutdown of inter-provincial, never mind international travel – especially if it’s been sealed off. One doesn’t shut down the world’s largest economy and the livelihood of 1.5B people over a “maybe”. No responsible leadership would make a move like that unless it was overdetermined. The CPC doesn’t do “rash” or “ill-considered”, and no govt should. One has to be 110% certain, and 95% ain’t certain enough. In the event, China probably erred on the side of caution, but the net result is that China’s domestic economy was back on the rails within 3-4 weeks and no lasting damage was done.

    Commenters like you love to omit the fact that the only people who knew how dangerous it was was the NCMI, who reported the danger to the NSA/Whitehouse in mid-Nov, and repeatedly through December. One has to assume that the Whitehouse took their reports seriously. Why the Whitehouse’s only reaction was to warn the Israelis and NATO command is the only question worth asking.

    • Agree: d dan
    • Replies: @Sean
  90. @Sean

    the opinion of the WHO was not reached though proper examination of the scientific evidence

    ; Nonsense. The WHO reached its conclusion through proper examination of the scientific evidence

    Chinese WHO board members used pressure and disinformation to get the organisation’s chief to oppose anything that might have been really effective. Twaddle. As junior members in the Organization’s funding, Chinese board members were in no position to pressure the organization, even if they wished to, and they did not.

    • Replies: @Biff
    , @Iris
  91. Parfois1 says:
    @FB

    I never tire telling people about my time in East Germany as an exchange student…the best year of my life…Westerners simply don’t understand what an amazing society that was

    Thanks for sharing that personal snippet with us. That has been quite an intriguing question in my mind: how you freed yourself from the systematic conditioning most people in the Anglosphere are subject to. Beyond La Manche people tend to be more tolerant and accepting of Communism as just another political orientation although it is generally recognized that the Russian debacle has severely harmed its moral standing and reputation among the proletariat, namely for being an inside putsch by the apparatchiks. What Hitler did not achieve with his great war machine, a band of traitors managed to do and scoop the loot.

    Sometimes the course of history is at the mercy of single thread of a chance event as the one on 5th March 1953, before the planned “leadership academy” to train and accredit public officials came to fruition. The Chinese were more prudent and had the benefit of the ages-old imperial service experience to get their equivalent merit-based system (ganbu) going.

    • Replies: @FB
  92. Biff says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Dude STOP! Shithead Sean is just trolling you as a Mike Pompeo wanna be. If you ignore him it’ll make him mad and the rest of us will be happy.

    • Thanks: bluedog
  93. d dan says:
    @Half-Jap

    “… open international travel from other cities are concerning issues, and some may view this as malicious, if not grossly negligent, by China…. Was China malicious or had to save face? I would never accuse the Chinese of ignorance”

    You have gone from a moderately China skeptics to a radically anti-China hawk. What happened?

    Anyone who are reasonably non-biased will agree that:

    1. Banning of travel has to be proportional to the risks. Chinese government assessment of the situation has been proved to be correct.
    2. Banning of travel is a two way decision – both sides have to take responsibility of their own actions, e.g. Russia was early in closing its border and didn’t blame China.
    3. US and western leaders, elites and media have the long tradition of NOT trusting Chinese government – what makes you think that they trusted Chinese numbers this time – just because Sean says so?
    4. Growing bodies of evidences have shown that there were plenty of cases or suspected cases of Covid-19 outside China in January, December, or even November or earlier. Roberts cited one example – but there were a lot more examples. Why didn’t you accuse all these countries: US, Italy, France, etc of malice or negligence? They are more justifiable accusations because none of these western countries even bother to test their patients (seemingly intentional), let alone taking actions to contain or report them until Chinese government drastic actions in Wuhan.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  94. denk says:
    @Really No Shit

    when was the last time the Chinese laid a hand on you, motherfucker. ?

    • Replies: @d dan
    , @Really No Shit
    , @Biff
  95. botazefa says:
    @AnonCN

    Your behavior of blaming China show us Chinese clearly that US has lost its confidence and senses

    How do we believe you are Chinese? There are some tics in your commentary that make me understand you are faking Chinese.

  96. Sean says:
    @Erebus

    Half-Jap agreed with my comment. Certain facts are not a matter of dispute. Taiwan is inveterately suspicion of China, and Taiwan suffered 7 coronavirus dead, while Italy–China’s most economically co opted Euro state–had 33,415 coronavirus deaths. Professor Ian Lipkin who is the world authority on the previous coronavirus epidemic (2002’s SARS) and had been regularly visiting China since to confer with Chinese experts and had been begging them to close wet markets went to China.

    https://globalcenters.columbia.edu/news/us-virus-hunter-w-ian-lipkin-assisting-china BY Wu Guoxiu, CGTN
    February 03, 2020

    A specialist known as one of the world’s leading “virus hunters” is in China, to help contain the coronavirus epidemic. Dr. W. Ian Lipkin is the John Snow Professor of Epidemiology and director of the Center for Infection and Immunity of Mailman School of Public Health at Columbia University. Dr. Lipkin came to China 17 years ago to help fight SARS. His week-long trip this time included Guangzhou and Beijing, without going to Wuhan. “I’ve not been to Wuhan, I’ll not be able to get back into the U.S. very easily, and that would impede my ability to do the work. Although I would like to have gone to Wuhan, unfortunately logistics made that impossible,” he says.

    Lipkin is in a better position to understand than anyone. He now says we will never know what the Chinese knew and when. China managed to inform the local office of the World Health Organisation about the Wuhan disease on the eve of the Western New Year.

    • Troll: d dan
  97. FB says: • Website
    @Parfois1

    Sometimes the course of history is at the mercy of single thread of a chance event as the one on 5th March 1953, before the planned “leadership academy” to train and accredit public officials came to fruition.

    Indeed…you display your erudition once again, Parf…thank you…I had only heard in passing of Stalin’s plans for a ‘leadership academy’…do you have any pointers to further reading…?

    I will say [not as a historian nor any kind of ‘authority’] that the Khruschev era started the demise of the Soviet system…eventually becoming the ‘Russian debacle’ as you put it…

    Unfortunately for the Russian people, what came afterwards was even worse [including right now even, the Putin regime is far from doing what needs done…]

    The Chinese simply continued adjusting and learning and then adjusting some more…and then learning again etc…Erebus notes here that any new idea is first TRIED OUT in a limited scale to see if it will work…

    Also will note here that the sheeple of the US are so indoctrinated against socialism that they fail to realize that the US economy is today far more CENTRALLY PLANNED than any communist economy in history…only difference is it’s the FED and the Bankstas that are doing the central planning…[one need only look at the ‘individuals’ that have occupied the Treasury Secretary post in the last three decades or so…]

    • Replies: @Parfois1
  98. FB says: • Website
    @Erebus

    E, I’m going to describe here how the family I stayed with lived…

    Their apartment was not tight for a family of four, but certainly not expansive…the kitchen was equipped similarly to our own home in the 1980s [except for a dishwasher]…it was a flat in what used to be a very nice single family home that was now a duplex…

    The family did not own a car, while my family had two cars at the time [both financed]…our house was mortgaged, their apartment was theirs and nobody could ever evict them…under the system, your employer was responsible for providing you with suitable living accommodations after a set period of working there, usually two to five years or so…after which you would simply pay a quite tiny and unnoticeable portion of your income for the building upkeep etc…

    The family did own a lovely little country getaway [cottage or cabin style] in the countryside located on a little lake…there was public transit to go right to this little town, but the family at the time was waiting for their turn to get a car…public transportation was free and very clean and quite an efficient way of getting around, including the subway, which was very neat and well maintained…so a car was not really a priority…[I’m sure they could have had one earlier had they really wanted it…]

    So overall, certainly this is not the level of material ‘comforts’ that you would have found in a middle class home in the West…[the father was a chemical engineer and the mother was a veterinary doctor]…

    However…it is difficult to describe just what it means to not have any debt in your life…neither for house, nor for car, nor for student loans etc…you did not have to worry about ANY higher education costs…if your kid had the aptitude to become a nuclear physicist he would simply go all the way without once worrying about neither tuition, nor room, nor what he was going to eat…

    Crime was not a concern, much less violent crime…but especially what we call white collar crime…at the time I was in East Germany, my family had actually gone through an incredible financial ordeal involving unscrupulous financial operators in the so called ‘investment’ industry…we nearly lost our house…savings were of course wiped out…

    How do you put a price tag on a life well lived…can you make up with TVs and stereos and crappy cars the fact that your kids never finished university…?

    • Thanks: frankie p, Jazman
    • Replies: @frankie p
    , @Parfois1
  99. d dan says:
    @denk

    I believe “Really No Shit” is a multi-person account, used by people related to Japan. He/she/they don’t argue with good faith nor sincerity.

    • Replies: @denk
  100. denk says:
    @d dan

    The sob sounds like a white trash .
    Whatever, after Im done with him, the creep will be consigned to the mofo file, two steps below bozo.
    Sean is filed under bozo , meaning I dont bother with him any more.

  101. anonymous[814] • Disclaimer says:
    @Really No Shit

    So, when are these “real AmeriKKKans” going to show themselves? What are the waiting for?

    They won’t show themselves, you lowlife, because the current AmeriKKKans are the real AmeriKKKans.

    It seems that some/many idiot citizens transform from the Indifferent, to Patriots, and finally to Nationalists. The final transformation appears to somehow fry the said idiots’ brains.

    They then spew utterly nonsensical claims such as ” would shake like a leaf…,” etc.

  102. @Sean

    Worse than that Trump did not know, because of a lack of test kits no one knew, that many infected people were coming into the US from Europe, so he did nothing about restricting flights from Europe. One of the major factors in messing up the US response to the covid-19 pandemic has been the ongoing CDC’s cock-up over the test kits. First refusing to join in the international effort to produce them and then producing dud kits and then after getting them to work, failing to produce enough.

    Two other questions that it seems to me are not asked often enough are Why are the proceedings of the US CDC conducted in great secrecy? What are they trying to hide? And what was going on in Fort Detrick that caused it to be closed down last July?

    • Replies: @Sean
  103. orionyx says:
    @Ultrafart the Brave

    These statistics reinforce my view that the Western democracies with their expensive social safety nets are using Covid19 as an excuse to lighten the burden of old or otherwise useless eaters on said safety nets. They’re doing this right out in the open, in plain sight.
    What seems to happen is that you go to hospital, get diagnosed with the virus for which nothing can help except a ventilator, and wait your turn. The ventilators kill somewhere around 90% of those who are so treated. Many of those who lie around, lie around and die. Whereas if they had been diagnosed with bacterial pneumonia, given appropriate antibiotics and supportive therapy, and kept properly nourished and hydrated, they would have been ready to go back to their nursing homes within days, and costing lots of money for years.
    Seeing governors taking their own mothers out of nursing homes only reinforces this opinion.

    • Replies: @Sean
    , @Ultrafart the Brave
  104. orionyx says:
    @Miro23

    India will not remain with the US bloc. Modi has one virtue: he is mortal.

  105. orionyx says:
    @ploni almoni

    Spoken without the slightest hint of irony?

  106. Sean says:
    @foolisholdman

    And what was going on in Fort Detrick that caused it to be closed down last July?

    I do not know, but nothing is made in the US any more. South Korea sells Huawei advanced semiconductors, Germany supplies the Chinese navy submarines’ silent running diesel engines, and German/ Japanese capital goods are the basis of Chinese productive capacity. Who defends those countries? American taxpayers. Meanwhile

    America’s mom-and-pop investors, labor unions, pension funds, and retirement plans have lost millions investing in fraudulent Chinese companies. From reverse mergers and stock indexes to single-stock listings, this fraud has been deliberate and pervasive. Just this year, Luckin Coffee – the Chinese equivalent of Starbucks – which did an IPO last May, saw its stock drop over 80% as investors learned of fabricated sales and shoddy accounting. Recently, two other Chinese companies – TAL Education and iQiyi – have also been accused of fraud. Over an eight-year period, a pattern of cheating has emerged. It begs the question: Is this fraud a normal part of investment risk or an intentional part of China’s larger geopolitical strategy? Facts suggest the latter, leading observers to conclude the CCP executed a purposeful and strategic defrauding of American investors in broad daylight.

    Nixon initiated rapprochement with China in order to end the Vietnam War, then building China up as a counterweight to USSR proved an easy Cold War option. Under Carter, US officials were ordered to give China preferential treatment. Wall Street?

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/05/30/washington_must_end_chinas_fraud_on_our_markets_143328.html
    China needs access to Western capital to become a dominant world superpower and it found a willing partner in Wall Street. The partnership works like this: First, Wall Street spins a narrative about emerging market returns and the “can’t miss China growth story.” Then, it markets and sells Chinese companies to American investors. After the sale, proceeds are sent to China, it continues to support these companies by putting them in stock index funds, promoting them in the financial media, and lobbying Washington on their behalf.

    • Replies: @Lol
    , @Anonymous
  107. frankie p says:
    @FB

    “I would bet dollars to donuts that I will hear from various ‘alt righters’ that it’s Jews, blacks, leftists and liberals…

    But never will they get the right answer which is Wall Street and Big Business…and of course it’s these plutocrats that own the government and set policy…”

    Wall Street and Big Business = plutocrats that own the government and set policy

    So are you saying that there are no Jews among them, because in my own observation over many years of changes in the US, the plutocrats are very top heavy with Jews. And these Jews, unlike many of the plutocrats, are rabidly political, interested in the big question that has dominated their lives:
    Is it good for the Jews?

    They are the hot knife that cuts through the butter of the gentile plutocrats, who go along so as to not be labeled anti-semite or be cut out of the feeding frenzy of sharks taking advantage of the poor and rapidly disappearing middle class.

  108. @denk

    Dirty rat is, dirty rat says … you have a filthy mouth … it’s too bad your 阿妈 didn’t wash it out with a soap when you were in diapers.

  109. frankie p says:
    @FB

    I have enjoyed your descriptions and comparisons of life behind the iron curtain and behind the greed curtain of the west. Thanks.

  110. Parfois1 says:
    @FB

    Thanks FB. It’s the first time I had a glimpse into the personal experience of someone living in East Germany although I have read about many people there deeply distressed by and disillusioned with the reunification to such an extent that they migrated to other countries. I also heard about a whole village/community setting up a farming cooperative in Northern Portugal when I was trekking in that region in 1994.

    I fully agree with your condemning the crass consumerism consuming the “affluent” societies while their humanity degenerated into a “dog-eat-dog” contest of selfishness and survival for the lumpenproles.

    By the way, my dishwasher went on the blink in 1995 and was not replaced, neither the telly set “discontinued” when B&B (Bush and Blair) went on a crusade.

    • Replies: @FB
  111. Parfois1 says:
    @FB

    I had only heard in passing of Stalin’s plans for a ‘leadership academy’…do you have any pointers to further reading…?

    Not at the moment… I’ll need to do some digging (the computer where I had stored historical material and everything else went kaput 3 yrs ago, no backups). From memory, at the time of his death there were three main unfinished business: the “white gowns plot”, his intention to “groom” his successor ( I think he had in mind the young party chief in Belarus, an “outsider”, forgot the name) and the plan to set up an institution similar to the French ENA (Ecole Nationale d’Administration) to train the top bureaucrats and, by extension, political cadres. He had been working on that project for some years privately, not through the C.C. or Politburo, probably assisted by a De Gaulle’s appointee for that task. There were also rumours of a project to relocate Jews to the Far East.

    Maybe, someone else with expertise on that subject will lend a hand. One thing is certain, Stalin was aware that something was afoot at the time (propaganda says he was paranoid) and later events, starting with the murder of Beria up to Khrushchev’s “secret speech” proved that he was right to be suspicious. I think he underestimated the butt of his jokes (the clown Nikita)’s guile.

  112. @Svevlad

    What on earth has China got to do with the riots? If you believe that codswallop you’ll believe anything man. Do you maybe think Russia is backing Trump too? That is just so feeble.

    When the USA instigates and feeds riots and protests in other nations the means are always obvious and clear. US money and influencers filter into various organizations in the targeted country. They are typically given a thin cover being called various permutations of democracy promotion but they’re just the funnel through which US skullduggery is directed. There are no such options for China, Russia, or anyone else in the USA, with the exception of “Israel”. Nobody else has more than very easily tracked lobbies.

  113. @Really No Shit

    All indications are it came from the USA, specifically Fort Detrick. From the multiple genomes in the US when just one was in China to the Israelis reporting that US intel told them and NATO in November of a deadly pandemic coming out of Wuhan which would affect military readiness, (when China only knew of a few isolated cases then). The first cases were probably those strange vaping deaths that never were resolved but disappeared from the news just before Fort Detrick was shut down for failing to secure deadly pathogens. Even what little evidence there is it could have been the Wuhan lab is linked to the USA which had given them money and instructions to work with bat coronaviruses. points back to the USA. The hysterical and empty accusations from Washington look like nothing less than a desperate attempt to cover up the real source. The USA is guilty son and anyone with a functioning brain knows it. Ideology shuts down the brain. Drop your failed ideology and regain your mental function.

    • Replies: @Really No Shit
  114. Biff says:
    @denk

    when was the last time the Chinese laid a hand on you, motherfucker. ?

    When he was getting a massage by little liu whey and her small hands made his tiny dick look normal for only just that moment.

    (I couldn’t resist)

    • LOL: FB
    • Replies: @denk
    , @Really No Shit
  115. Lol says:
    @Sean

    So basically China acted exactly like America with the pandemics it caused.

  116. Lol says:
    @Sean

    American taxpayers don’t defend shit, if anything, the EU should have sold guns to all MENA countries to shoot down your war criminals out of the sky, not only to make money but because it’s in our interest, along with kicking your other war criminals from the EU so that we can stop going into your stupid wars instead of backing your opponents for profit and having you and China bid for our support in the Pacific.

    If anything, we’re stupidly subsidizing your moronic foreign policy in the ME, Russia and China. You’d be nothing more than a regional power with a big head without Europe 😂

  117. Anonymous[153] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean

    Who defends those countries? American taxpayers.

    Well, no. Those countries – Germany, Japan, South Korea, and China – pay for US military spending by using their trade surpluses to buy US Treasuries and other dollar denominated assets and finance the US budget deficit. If American taxpayers actually had to pay for the US military, they’d be much worse off. It’d be like the Soviet economy with lots of military spending and fewer consumer goods available.

    China is freaking out the US not just because of its economic growth but because instead of just using its trade surplus to buy US Treasuries and fund the US military, it is using it to build its own military, to move up the value chain, and to build alternative trading networks and economic infrastructure around the world that cut off or diminish the US’s role economically.

    • Agree: Biff, uncoy, showmethereal
    • Replies: @Sean
  118. @Rabbitnexus

    Once the legit investigations of both claims are concluded then let the chips fall where it may but until such, I bet it is the dark (China) side that is the guilty party!

    • Replies: @denk
  119. Sean says:
    @Anonymous

    Those countries – Germany, Japan, South Korea, and China – pay for US military spending by using their trade surpluses to buy US Treasuries and other dollar denominated assets and finance the US budget deficit.

    Which means China’s exports to the US remain cheaper imports to the American consumer; there is no countervailing rise in the Yen to moderate the trade imbalance; dwindling manufacturing jobs in the US and few are earning enough to tax heavily for amed up R&D spending. Neglect of the technological edge–already pitiful compared to the Reagan era–will ceaselessly erode away the only future advantage the West might have had. Meanwhile, the US is expected to defend South Korea and Japan against the very same country they are collaborating with in a subtle mercantilist attack on the West.

    China is freaking out the US not just because of its economic growth but because instead of just using its trade surplus to buy US Treasuries and fund the US military, it is using it to build its own military,

    No. China has been careful to limit its military spending in order to not cause “freaking out” in the US military. What Chinese military flexing there is helps their South Korean and Japanese suppliers intersperse playing the (Chinese Cat’s Paw) North Korean threat card with a China threat card . So far it always works because of disconnect between economic and military strategy by the US. Those in the loop who advocate integrating those policies are instantly sacked, as Rob Spaulding was.

    Only Peter Navarro comprehends that it is a zero sum game between China and America, and assuming the other fellows good faith in mutual advantage (the current rules) favours Chinese exploitation of the West. That is why he, as a mere economist, was so right so early about the Chinese export of their pandemic, while renowned world authority on coronaviruses Professor Lipkin was so slow on the uptake.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  120. denk says:
    @Really No Shit

    legit

    shithead,
    USA and legit
    What an oxymoron !

    As chief American prosecutor, Robert Jackson clearly stated, a war of aggression “is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole.”

    Jackson further noted that the tribunals would certainly be a farce if the United States failed to apply the Nuremberg standards to itself in the future.

    https://www.countercurrents.org/kantar300408.htm

    • Replies: @Really No Shit
  121. denk says:
    @Biff

    dick

    But that shithead is a stupid cunt.

  122. @Biff

    No Beef, his momma was keen on the tiny one but that’s for another day … in the meantime, don’t get in to bed with denk lest you wanna catch the Yellow fever!

  123. Mefobills says:
    @FB

    Meef is actually much more sophisticated than that, but the word itself is so heavily freighted that it becomes off putting even to use it…

    Thanks for defending me against Parfois.

    I didn’t realize the word “Sclerotic”would trigger such emotion.

    Of course, I do understand there are different kinds of communism, and the differences can be profound. Today’s Chinese flavor is obviously much different than the Politburo flavor.

  124. FB says: • Website
    @Parfois1

    There’s a lot more to life behind the so-called ‘iron curtain’…

    For instance holidays and vacationing…even manual laborers had decent paid vacation time and fully paid for holiday trips…there were plenty of worker resorts or ‘sanatoriums’ that were really quite nice…

    I happened to go on a week long bus tour that was fantastic…it was a bunch of primary school teachers and the vacation was all part of the job perks…[Incidentally, this was just for the teachers, sans spouses…so I would imagine there may have been a little extra-curricular activity going on…😘]

    Each of the hotels we stayed in were excellent, nothing extravagant, but spotlessly clean, the staff competent and friendly…the food was fantastic…

    This is how people lived…you didn’t need to worry about pulling out your credit card and getting soaked in some tourist trap…it was all part and parcel of the trip, which was paid for…in fact you can think of it as a proper way for the employer to show his appreciation for the work you do…

    I wish I had had a chance to visit one of the sanatoriums…they had those in West Germany also…in the 1960s while I was a young boy, I had spent three years in West Germany while my dad was stationed there with the military…he had the pleasure of going to one of those after he had ulcer surgery…he was there for a few weeks and brought back souvenirs and such, and said it was the best time of his life…

    Yes there is a lot more to life than the catch-wrestling for survival that we are living in here in the Banksta Paradise…this is a jungle existence compared to civilized life for humans the way it should be…

    So yeah…whenever I hear someone twaddling about the ‘murderous’ communists I just shake my head…total inversion of reality…people in that system actually put in a lot of thought and effort to build a civilized way of life…something that we have never put any effort into at all…it takes cooperation, not competition…

    • Replies: @Erebus
  125. @Mefobills

    I am 100% sure China is communist in name only.

    They are essentially a giant testing ground. Non stop trials, whatever works goes national.

    They have no ideology. That is a huge advantage imo. Their national message seems to be rejuvenation of China and lifting every Chinese out of poverty.

  126. Sean says:
    @orionyx

    These statistics reinforce my view that the Western democracies with their expensive social safety nets are using Covid19 as an excuse to lighten the burden of old or otherwise useless eaters on said safety nets.

    While the elite is greedy I cannot go alone with the idea that they would be so stupid as to cull the old folk and destroy the basis of an organisation of society the elite themselves are chief beneficiaries of. Even in the Antebellum South slaves too old to work were left to live out their life and fed, because the black multi generational family was the basic unit that made the system work and the slaveholder money. Money is made from the ‘useless’ by the elite in all sorts of ways:-

    https://robertlustig.com/hacking/
    In the last forty years, government legislation and subsidies have promoted ever-available temptation (sugar, drugs, social media, porn) combined with constant stress (work, home, money, Internet), with the end result of an unprecedented epidemic of addiction, anxiety, depression, and chronic disease. And with the advent of neuromarketing, corporate America has successfully imprisoned us in an endless loop of desire and consumption from which there is no obvious escape.

    The system is not only tolerant of those delilitated by age is actuall set up to make profit by making people ill. Moreover the healthcare industry is just as profitable a racket as the aforementioed industries.

    https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691190785/deaths-of-despair-and-the-future-of-capitalism
    Deaths of Despair and the Future of Capitalism paints a troubling portrait of the American dream in decline. For the white working class, today’s America has become a land of broken families and few prospects. As the college educated become healthier and wealthier, adults without a degree are literally dying from pain and despair. In this critically important book, Case and Deaton tie the crisis to the weakening position of labor, the growing power of corporations, and, above all, to a rapacious health-care sector that redistributes working-class wages into the pockets of the wealthy.

    So the continued life of the elder generation is an important part of the whole thing, like pensions and they do not kill people and steal their pensions because the assurance of retirement is essential, without it people would immediately cease to believe in the system. The poor and minorities need to have some kind of assurance they will be taken care of. Maybe coping with perceived racism is a significant factor in the development of obesity in African American women, but Lustig in one of his books many who are seriously obese consider themselves more sexually attractive (“thick”) for it.Those with the least self control are railroaded into early the dehabilitation and illness associated with great age because there is profit in it. In a nutshell: the elite can’t let useless people die on the scale you suggest, and it would not benefit them in short term profit perspective even if they could.

    Japan has a population of 126 million and it is the oldest in the world, and the population density in Japan is very high indeed and the antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 are present in about 6% of Japanese. Yet only 900 have died of the disease in the entire county. The reason appears to be that the Japanese government mandated compulsory annual measuring of waistlines for individuals between 45 and 70 with sanctions for local government and companies whose people are overweight. Possible the Taiwanese government is similarly paternalist, but the fact is Taiwan has ten deaths in the entire country, and they are viscerally suspicious of China and those co-opted by them such as the World Heath Organisation. So is no-fan-of-welfare economist Peter Navarro, and if his memo to Trump had been acted on then the US might have significantly fewer deaths because thousands of Americans with metabolic syndrome would not have been infected with the coronavirus that killed them.

  127. @Really No Shit

    Didn’t Rodney King say the same thing after getting a good whopping from LA cops back in the day?

    They should have listened.

    • Replies: @Really No Shit
  128. Anonymous[784] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean

    I’ve read Navarro’s book. Navarro and other China hawks make clear that not only do they regard direct military spending as a threat, but also China’s attempt to move up the value chain and its attempt to build up alternative global trading networks and infrastructure as a threat. Huawei and other Chinese hi-tech firms, and China’s Belt & Road project, are regarded not just as economic but ultimately military threats.

    China is acceptable to the US as a cheap labor outsourcing destination specialized in relatively low tech middle and low valued added goods, with its trade surpluses recycled back into the US financial system and thereby supporting US government and military spending and power. However, China has been breaking this unwritten rule of the postwar order by using those surpluses to try to build up an alternative arrangement that would diminish the US’s power and position.

    • Replies: @Sean
  129. @orionyx

    These statistics reinforce my view that the Western democracies with their expensive social safety nets are using Covid19 as an excuse to lighten the burden of old or otherwise useless eaters on said safety nets. They’re doing this right out in the open, in plain sight.

    It’s hard to see that happening in the countries that have managed to keep the Corona Chan fatalities right down – mostly Asian nations, but including Australia & NZ. Last I looked, NZ had about 20 deaths in total, & Australia just a tad over 100.

    On the other hand, I’ve read accounts of elderly Corona Chan victims being shipped from hospital back to their nursing homes in the USA, with predictable disastrous results. But wouldn’t you expect that if a genocidal policy was actually in force to cut the cost of senior care, in a country as large as the USA, they’d be aiming at a body count in the millions?

    Seeing governors taking their own mothers out of nursing homes only reinforces this opinion.

    If true, that certainly indicates a lack of trust in the safety the nursing homes.

    So – if we accept that, in some countries, the elderly have been dying unnecessarily (and the elderly do seem to be the principle victims of Corona Chan) – is it due to lack of resources, neglect, incompetence or premeditation? If deliberate, is it the cost of elderly care, or are there other motivations afoot?

    I think neglect & incompetence probably played a big part where elderly groups have been put at avoidable risk of catching Corona Chan. That certainly seemed to be the case at one nursing home in Australia.

    I do hope you’re wrong about individual states or nations having a deliberate policy of bumping off the old folk just to cut care costs.

    BUT I wouldn’t discount hidden agendas being behind the original genesis and spread of the Corona Chan pandemic.

  130. Anonymous[338] • Disclaimer says:

    Video has been leaked showing Indian soldiers beating captured Chinese soldiers to a pulp, no doubt China will consider this a big loss of “face”. Wonder if this will push China to just launch an outright invasion?

    • Replies: @denk
  131. Sean says:
    @Anonymous

    I find it strange you think China has got the worst of it dealing with the US, and only recently started to militarily assert itself. China fought America to a standstill in the Korea and then in the Vietnam War used proxies (hundreds of thousands of Chinese were in north Vietnam as workers so Vietnamese could fight in the South) to inflict a shattering defeat. Nixon had to concede recognition to China, which was a capitulation. As a result of this clear defeat of the US, China gained access to the W0rld Bank and other sources of capital. Not only loans, but preferential trade relations, imports of natural resources, and everything else needed for for economic blast off. Moreover, Nixon’s recognition of China and its claim to Taiwan meant Taiwan was expelled from the UN, and the World Health Organisation is a UN organisation.

    Travel between China and Taiwan became common and it has the highest proportion of obese people in Asia. In addition 3.27 million people in Taiwan are over 65 years old. By any rational standard Taiwan ought to have a large number of dead from COVID-19, yet they are not even into double figures. Taiwan loathes and fears the CCP regime and all their works, and that standpoint is the secret of Taiwan’s uncanny success in avoiding import of a Made In China pandemic. Navarro is something simular. Death From China is a Navarro book and the title is indicative of his mindset, which is why he has been so corruscatingly prescient, although he was not paid enough attention to for his good advice to prevent the pandemic hitting the US so much harder than was necessary.

    The promotion of China as counterweight to the USSR accelerated under Carter and continued until 2016 as a zombie policy with no strategic rationale remaining for it. Profit for finance is no kind of national strategy. Navarro was plucked from nowhere because the entire US elite had been co-opted by China. He saw the big picture. Bankers are devotees of the oriental sage Gi Mi Sum. The elite and their tame economists were licking the boots of China, but ordinary people said enough was enough and elected Trump.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  132. denk says:
    @Anonymous

    India has always been the invader,
    why’d they call it ‘USA OF south Asia’. ?

    Just like the days of eight nations alliance and 1962, the Aryan Indians are willing to fight to the last Dravidians for their white cousins.

    https://www.unz.com/freed/america-on-video/?showcomments#comment-3937951

    • Replies: @Sean
  133. Sean says:
    @denk

    India has always been the invader

    As when India invaded Tibet.

    Indians are willing to fight

    In 1962 the Indian army ran away from the Chinese.

    … to the last Dravidians for their white cousins

    We can see what the Chinese have done to their Tibetan cousins. There is hardly a tree left in China. Soon Tibet will be the same.

    • Troll: d dan
  134. Parfois1 says:
    @Mefobills

    Today’s Chinese flavor is obviously much different than the Politburo flavor.

    I did not “attack” you, you just got a broadside for carelessly using the hackneyed phraseology commonly used by the cretinous US commenters here when the “communist bogeyman” makes an appearance. It’s like a jingoistic reflexive reaction typical of a redneck.

    By the way, guess what’s the top watchdog of the Communist Party of China? The flavoursome Central Politburo of the Communist Party of China.

    As I said before, political theory is not your forte. Cheers

    • Replies: @Mefobills
  135. Erebus says:
    @FB

    Thanks FB. Your reminisces reflect my own memories, though my experience there was nowhere near the depth of yours. I’ll never forgive the fact that my formative years were spent trapped in a web of patent lies and fictions with no connection to real history, or even current events, but even my short visit did much to break the spell.

    A point many miss when they talk about how the “Commies” failed to deliver the consumer lifestyle and material goods that the West had in such abundance is that the countries east of the Iron Curtain were devastated by the war. Whole cities were laid waste and had to be rebuilt from less than scratch. The West saw nothing like that level of destruction, not to mention the level of human losses. IOW, the “Commies” had to climb out of a much deeper hole than the West could imagine climbing out of, and they not only climbed out of it but managed to give their people a dignified life.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  136. Anonymous[291] • Disclaimer says:
    @Erebus

    Was it ever sustainable, Erebus? As I understand it, communism gradually grew more and more inefficient until it imploded. I understand this was inevitable due to an overreliance on central planning and communal goodwill and an underutilisation of capitalist axioms: individual will to power, free market price finding mechanism, etc.

  137. @Sean

    You’ve gotten the dirty yellow rat cornered … now watch the panda punk trying to weasel his way out.

    One feels empathy for the noble Tibetan race with a billion money grubbing Chinese oppressing them.

    FREE TIBET NOW!

    • Troll: d dan
  138. @Ultrafart the Brave

    And the cities are burning just like then…

  139. denk says:
    @Sean

    India….
    Gobbled up ,
    Arunachal Pradesh, Assam, Meghalaya, Manipur, Mizoram, Nagaland and Tripura.
    All mongoid kingdoms after India’s own independence.
    Annexed Tawang,. birth place of HMDL 1951
    Invaded China 1962
    Borrowed Lipulekh, Kalapani and Limpiyadhura from Nepal, still squatting on it.
    Annexed Sikkim, 1975/
    Sikkimise Bhutan, until this day.
    Invaded Sri Lanka 1980
    Invaded China 2017
    Invaded China again, 2020

    Trees

    Chinese parks
    https://www.tripsavvy.com/guide-to-public-parks-in-china-4071482

    Champion of the earth
    https://www.unenvironment.org/news-and-stories/press-release/chinese-initiative-ant-forest-wins-un-champions-earth-award

    https://www.unenvironment.org/news-and-stories/press-release/chinese-initiative-ant-forest-wins-un-champions-earth-award

    Did I say you’r in my bozo file ?
    I was gonna tell the other posters here to ignore you.
    You’r either having too much time on your hand or perhaps paid to post such nonsense.
    IM granting you this one off amnesty, dont push your luck.

    After wasting time on sean the troll,
    Im not gonna waste a separate post for that ‘really shit head’

    Free Tibet

    You think the Chinese should listen to preaching from the greatest land grabber in human history ?

    Fuck Tibet, free Navajo.

    USA, Canada, Oz, NZ, …..
    ‘You’r all fucking illegals’
    https://www.rt.com/usa/native-american-immigration-man-500/

    Hawaii, Guam, Puerto Rico, Diego Garcia, Okinawa, Jeju, ….Iraq, Syria, Libya, Kosovo.

    I’ve seen lots of mofo in my times, but you, asshole, takes the cake.

    • Replies: @Sean
    , @Really No Shit
  140. Sean says:
    @denk

    The virus was in Taiwan on 21 January 2020, from a 50-year-old woman who had been teaching in Wuhan. Due to Taiwan’s efficient democratic systeml and well founded belief that the CCP were engaging in dissimulation, Taiwan took quick and practical action against the Made in China infection, and has had a mere seven deaths from coronavirus. Only 7 dead in Taiwan so far.

    Most importantly for the world, the Taiwanese policy encourages the evolution of the virus to less lethal forms. Allow me by way of elucidation to quote Professor Ewald:

    Social distancing, disinfection, staying at home when sick, restricting the sizes of gatherings, and increasing protection in hospitals and residences for the elderly take away the advantages that harmful durable viruses have over milder viruses. On the basis of these considerations we expect that the COVID-19 viruses will shift toward a level of harmfulness that is below the one death per thousand where strong infection control measures are maintained.

    As for the Navajo, they’ll be especially vulnerable due to their high rates of prexisting disease especially diabetes. Suvh conditions are common among the poor everywhere, thise are the ones the virus is most deadly in.

    If the virus is steadily becoming less harmful, then delaying infections may be especially important for individuals who have had inadequate health care opportunities…. throughout the U.S., African Americans are disproportionately represented among COVID-19 cases and deaths.

    However the million of Uyghurs in Xinjiang re-education camps are creating precisely the opposite of an environment for making the virus less dangerous. It would be no huge surprise if COVID-19 came back in October with an infection to death rate of one or more percent. So it turns out that the democratic Taiwanese are protecting the Navajo, indigenous people worldwide, Appalachians who sank into poor health after having their livelihoods taken away by China, and every one else too.

    Western systems of government are more productive because they do not have one dimensional criteria for success, whereby innovation is fostered.. In China’s totalitarian system they drive headlong for growth irrespective of the consequences. This whole epidemic is a result of that internal lack of transparency and flexibility. The West has suffered through assuming China was basically similar to the West. Now the whole world has found out the hard way what the Taiwanese always knew.

    • Troll: Godfree Roberts, FB, Jazman
    • Replies: @Really No Shit
  141. Anonymous[122] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean

    I’m not sure what sending masses of ill equipped infantry and laborers to defend against US intervention on China’s bordering states far from the US mainland has anything to do with this discussion.

    I don’t think you’re very familiar with Taiwan. Taiwan has lots of travel and close ties and links with mainland China. There are pro-CCP elements and constituencies as well as anti-CCP ones. But even among anti-CCP Taiwanese, the sort of visceral fear and loathing that Navarro and you seem to have, which presumably ultimately derives from China being large, powerful, and racially alien, doesn’t exist. You seem to be projecting your own views and attitudes onto the Taiwanese and others in the region.

    • Replies: @bluedog
    , @Sean
  142. Anonymous[146] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean

    We can see what the Chinese have done to their Tibetan cousins. There is hardly a tree left in China. Soon Tibet will be the same.

    There were around 1 million Tibetans when the PRC was established in 1949. There are over 6 million Tibetans today.

    By contrast, the American Indians have been largely wiped out over the course of US history.

    Why do you pretend to care about the Tibetans except as a useful cause and wedge against China?

    • Replies: @Sean
  143. bluedog says:
    @Anonymous

    Hell he’s a troll which has been pointed out a hundred times in the past,don’t feed him don’t reply to him and he will dry up and blow away……

    • Agree: FB
  144. Iris says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Coronavirus began ‘as an accident’ in Chinese lab, says former MI6 boss

    A former head of MI6 said he believes the coronavirus pandemic “started as an accident” when the virus escaped from a laboratory in China.

    In an interview with The Telegraph, Sir Richard Dearlove said he had seen an “important” new scientific report suggesting the virus did not emerge naturally but was man-made by Chinese scientists.

    The apparent discovery will raise the prospect of China paying “reparations” for the death and economic catastrophe wreaked upon the world, the former intelligence chief said. It comes as Beijing faces growing pressure to explain precisely how coronavirus first began to spread late last year.

    International scientists have reached a near-unanimous consensus, however, that the virus emerged in animals – most likely bats or pangolins – before jumping to the human population.

    But Sir Richard, 75, pointed to a scientific paper published this week by a Norwegian-British research team who claim to have discovered clues within Covid-19’s genetic sequence suggesting key elements were “inserted” and may not have evolved naturally.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/03/exclusive-coronavirus-began-accident-disease-escaped-chinese/

    And the peer-reviewed research article the interview is based upon:
    A Candidate Vaccine for Covid-19 (SARS-CoV-2) Developed from Analysis of its General Method of Action for Infectivity

    https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/DBBC0FA6E3763B0067CAAD8F3363E527/S2633289220000083a.pdf/biovacc19_a_candidate_vaccine_for_covid19_sarscov2_developed_from_analysis_of_its_general_method_of_action_for_infectivity.pdf

  145. I am deeply impressed by our media’s ability to suppress the facts that the Coronavirus has been circulating outside China since August, while blaming China for their own massive screwup. The power of media and propaganda is really, really impressive!

    As an historian and British spy, Sir Richard is eminently qualified to discuss the finer points of virology and I trust his judgement implicitly. Except…

    A senior Conservative MP has described the continuing cover-up of Britain’s complicity in the kidnapping and torture of detainees in the “war on terror” – and of who authorised it – as a shocking scandal that must be resolved without further delay.

    Andrew Tyrie, the chair of the all-party parliamentary group on extraordinary rendition, made clear that an answer to the key question – who knew about the secret operations – was getting closer.

    Tyrie, also chair of the Commons liaison committee of senior backbenchers and the Commons Treasury committee, was responding on Wednesday to the Guardian’s disclosure that the former head of MI5 was incensed when she discovered the role played by MI6 in abductions that led to suspected extremists being tortured.

    Lady Eliza Manningham-Buller was so angry that she threw out a number of her sister agency’s staff and banned them from working at MI5’s headquarters at Thames House in London.

    She wrote to Tony Blair, then the prime minister, to complain about the conduct of MI6 officers, saying their actions had threatened Britain’s intelligence gathering and may have compromised the security and safety of MI5 officers and their informants.

    Her letter was discovered by investigators examining whether British intelligence officers should face criminal charges over the rendition of the exiled Libyan opposition leader Abdul Hakim Belhaj.

    “This letter strongly suggests Tony Blair, the former head of MI6 Sir Richard Dearlove, and Eliza Manningham-Buller, the head of MI5, all knew that secret agents were engaged in the rendering, and possibly subsequent maltreatment, of prisoners,” Tyrie told the Guardian. “It is now essential to establish who authorised this rendition. The chances of it not having been authorised would appear low. Were it unauthorised it would be criminal.”

    • Replies: @FB
  146. Sean says:
    @Anonymous

    SARS in Taiwan: an overview and lessons learned
    This report aims to describe the epidemiology of severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) in Taiwan between March and July 2003, and to examine the public health response.

    The main lesson learnt by Taiwan was that China had mistaken the facts about a coronavirus epidemic originating in mainland China in the past, so could be expected to pass on erronous information in the event of a future coronavirus epidemic arising in China. Professor Ian Lipkin says the Chinese admitted that in 2002 they were minimising the situation.

    Eighteen years later SARS-CoV-2, another novel coronavirus, arose in mainland China, and Taiwan listened carefully to the World Heath Organisation explain that there was no evidence of sustained transmission between humans being found by China. The Taiwan authorities then immediately went into emergency mode knowing from experience exactly how reliable China is about such matters. That is not to say the Chinese were lying when they kept insisting right up untill January the 22nd the government of China knew of no evidence for sustained transmissibility between humans, because the totalitarian system creates bottlenecks for the free flow of data.

    You see my dear Anonymous[122], the totalitarian CCP government is one in which with a clean record a member of the party is guaranteed a rise to the top, but this entails avoinding being associated with anything going wrong. Careers are not made by subordinates bringing their boss bad news. As a result the supreme leadership actually know surprisingly little about egregious occurrences in the gigantic country they rule, because no one wants to be the fellow who is accused of lack of performance in meeting targets, let alone defeatism and spreading false news. Several weeks into the current crisis , Xi had to do a re-set, and make a special point of telling his regional bosses that they must not conceal cases of COVID-19.

    I don’t think you’re very familiar with Taiwan. Taiwan has lots of travel and close ties and links with mainland China.

    I was and mentioned that fact in a comment because it makes it all the more astounding that Taiwan has had only seven deaths from coronavirus. The reason for Taiwan’s astounding performance compared with China is clearly not racial superiority, and can only be because the Western system of government is better.

    A state with Western democracy and a Chinese population is the most efficient in the world, as the success of Taiwan proves, but even the Koreans (who are like the Chinese, except more so) have not managed the feat of having under ten people die of COVID-19. It is indubitable that the Taiwanese over Western democracy advantage is an understanding that given the CCP regime is dysfunctional because the party members are inveterate dissimulators when dealing with one another, and why on Earth would foreign countries expect the truth from China? Three months ago Professor Ewald warned that

    Unlike what we’re seeing with COVID-19 now, where people must be more or less mobile to infect others, in a detention camp this constraint on the virus disappears. There it can evolve high specialisation and virulence in the species it’s infecting – in this case, people.

    If the Chinese government cannot or does not curb the transmission of the novel coronavirus in Xinjiang, it’s possible that it will evolve, as the influenza virus did in 1918, to become even more dangerous to humans. If the disease evolves greater virulence by circulating in the Uighur detention camps, the responsibility will lie with those who made the decisions — fuelled by what appears to be racism — to isolate these people in the XUAR.

    But Xi may not know all that much about what is actually happening in the XAUR, just as he didn’t about Wuhan. To put it magniloquently there is an invisible hand distributing information throughout the society in America, and other advanced democracies. This is messy (as we can presently see) yet gives them better decision making and flexibility. Many people think the Western system is more fragile, don’t you believe it.

    • Thanks: AaronB
    • Troll: d dan, Patagonia Man
    • Replies: @Patagonia Man
  147. Sean says:
    @Anonymous

    Today Americans treat Amerindians with respect, acknowledge wrongs were done to them and grant them a degree of autonomy on there own reservations. Tibetans would like to be treated like that. It is important to remember that, historically, there was a Tibetan state, which China was content to exercise a shadowy overlordship in relation to. When the Chinese Communist party took power, China suddenly invaded Tibet, began replacement immigration of Han Chinese to make Tibetans a minority in their own lands and set about the destruction of Tibetan culture. The Tibetans had never bothered anyone.

    China’s claim to Tibet was recognised by Nixon as part of the deal with Mao (to end Vietnam). Nevertheless, the international community does not think Tibet is a completely internal Chinese matter. Neighbouring countries especially see that under the CCP, China has a much more aggressive attitude to neighbouring states and is only content with subservience. Bullying by a mega power is what every country on China’s borders is increasinly apprehesive about .

    • Troll: d dan
  148. @Sean

    The whole world knew Wuhan was locked down in January. Your comment is nonsense.

  149. @Sean

    Sean From end-WWII to 2010 the US has committed 69 overt/covert invasions/regime change operations in SIXTY-NINE nation-states – 1/3 of the whole UN member states, incl. its majority white, majority Christian ally, Australia in 1975.

    Boy, instead of sounding off about Tibet – shouldn’t you be lookin’ a little closer to home???
    https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.tumblr.com%2Ftagged%2Fwilliam%2Bblum&psig=AOvVaw27M4H-5vLiDkFBhT66mHqu&ust=1591352894769000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAIQjRxqFwoTCJC909r55-kCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD

  150. @denk

    “After wasting time on sean the troll,
    Im not gonna waste a separate post for that ‘really shit head’”

    Sirrah, you are the real shithead! Only the other day, you’re begging with your collective Mao designed iron bowl until Uncle Sam (read white man) bailed your yellow, slanty-eyed, asses out of the slimg and instead of being humble for the largest charity ever handed out to a starving people, you are getting to cocky for your britches, so, therefore, it’s time to teach you panda rats a lesson of the millennium!

    • Replies: @denk
  151. @Sean

    Well, now we all know youre a propagandist ‘Sean’ that journal article you linked to is about 2003.

    SARS in Taiwan: an overview and lessons learned

    Summary Objectives:

    This report aims to describe the epidemiology of severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) in Taiwan between March and July 2003, and to examine the public health response.

    Nice try!

  152. @Sean

    Leave to GR to label you a troll … Godfree Roberts is so far up the Chinese ANUS that he can’t find his way out of festering chopsuey of most the world’s depleted exotic wild life that’s stuck in there … you can bet dollars to donuts that he is not a regular white man but one of those Middle Eastern types strutting around America claiming to be one for the benefit of his “real” people!

    • Troll: d dan, FB, Jazman
  153. FB says: • Website
    @Godfree Roberts

    I am deeply impressed by our media’s ability to suppress the facts that the Coronavirus has been circulating outside China since August, while blaming China for their own massive screwup. The power of media and propaganda is really, really impressive!

    Yup…the US cradle-to-grave brainwashing system is huge and very powerful…

    Although it does help that a big part of the population is quite seriously retarded…

  154. @Sean

    Ummm no. You seem to confuse India with China. The only country that China has a land border with that is an issue is India. India has problems with all its neighbors borders.
    And no countries recognized Tibets claims to independence. Go read the constitution of the US ally on Taiwan. Tibet is claimed by the ROC also. They didnt teach you that before sending you out?

  155. Sean says:

    Comunist China’s forieng policy has been vastly more aggressive than anything seen before by that country. Having not recognised CCP mainland China as a proper government, the US was under no obligation to not cause trouble for China in Tibet. But China worn down America in Vietnam until Nixon was desperate to end that war. Accordingly, China got access to capital, resources and markets from Nixon, who also abandoned Taiwan, and recognised China’s annexation of Tibet, whereupon aid to Tibet to fight China ceased.

    India was non-aligned while being close to the Soviet Union so America had no incentive to support Indian claims, and China could use their armed force to conquer the territory from India and inflict a humiliating defeat on it. In 1979 China invaded Vietnam, which would not have happened if Vietnam had been an ally of America.

    The lesson of history for all neighbours of China therefore, is that as soon as they become estranged from America, China will pounce.

    China is inexorably turning into a megapower and soon no country on China’s borders, not even Russia, will be safe unless they are members of a grand alliance led by the USA.

  156. Anonymous[127] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean

    You’re sort of projecting the history and template of Western inter-racial relations, combined with the natural hostility and suspicion towards a racially alien outgroup.

    Chinese and Tibetan relations are nothing like the Western inter-racial relations of Western colonial and imperial history. The Chinese and Tibetans are neighboring, related, kin peoples.

    To most Americans, Amerindians don’t exist. They’re like mythical creatures or historical relics. They’re like elves or dinosaurs. Most of those who claim to be Amerindian have only minor traces of Amerindian ancestry. The very small numbers of those who have significant or mostly Amerindian ancestry live in remote, desolate reservations which were established after most of the Amerindians were driven off, displaced, and wiped out.

    Presumably because of greater genetic distance, and Western expansionist energy and drive, relations with and treatment of Amerindians were much more contentious, cruel, and extreme than relations between Chinese and Tibetans.

    • Agree: Godfree Roberts
  157. @d dan

    3) Yeah exactly.. Aside from the fact Trump was on record praising China and the WHO’s response in February – what is the point in paying so much for US intelligence services if they couldn’t inform the US gov that China was lying. It’s the same with Huawei spying. Long on talk but low on evidence. Anyone who watches news outside the US knew China was very serious with the outbreak.

    • Replies: @d dan
  158. d dan says:
    @showmethereal

    “…what is the point in paying so much for US intelligence services if they couldn’t inform the US gov that China was lying.”

    So that “Sean” and a few others here could be employed?

    “It’s the same with Huawei spying. Long on talk but low on evidence. “

    Of course, they have plenty of “evidences”. They could even find Iraqi WMD in Wuhan Labs if they want, couldn’t they? The only dilemma is to decide whether to invade Iraq or China after they found it.

    In other news, they have decided to add Zimbabwe to the list of countries responsible for America problems. Hopefully Sean will have more info for us after he finds Zimbabwe in the world map:

    “… national security adviser Robert O’Brien… Allegations of foreign influence attempting to influence and stoke the disruption in the US have quickly followed the violence coming out of the protests. O’Brien pointed to Chinese social media messages gloating about the chaos. On ABC’s “This Week,” he also acknowledged some Russian activists and mentioned Zimbabwe and Iran….

    Rubio, who was appointed acting Intelligence Committee chairman earlier this month, tweeted Saturday he was seeing “VERY heavy social media activity on #protests & counter reactions from social media accounts linked to at least 3 foreign adversaries.” “

    source: https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/31/politics/outside-influence-extremists-riots-us/index.html

    • LOL: FB, Herald, Showmethereal
    • Replies: @Anon
  159. denk says:
    @Really No Shit

    Charity ???

    What a psycho !

    Tell that to those Chinese starved to death during the famine years, courtesy of fukus imposed total embargo….including grains, wheats and Pencillin.

    Teach a lesson

    Talk like a thug….

    Your twenty nations coalition force , tanks, artillery, bombers, jet fighters, naval bombardments and all…were beaten by Mao’s PLA ,many equipped with only single action legacy rifles.

    How do you propose to teach them a lesson today, with their DF21, q20 ?

    Are you gonna launch another sneaky bio-war?
    Thats just about the only thing you are good for these day.

  160. Anon[544] • Disclaimer says:
    @d dan

    In other news, they have decided to add Zimbabwe to the list of countries responsible for America problems.

    Of course.

  161. voicum says:
    @Erebus

    Don’t be,Sean is one of those people that do not understand anything that happens around them but he is , totally unaware of it.

    • Replies: @Sean
  162. Sean says:
    @voicum

    George Floyd had foam visible at the corners of his mouth when the police arrived. Autopsy tests revealed Fentanyl and COVID-19: both straight out of Wuhan. Rapacious globalising hypercapitalism, inequality, economic despair causing ill health with drug abuse especially of opioids. Now riots that aim to topple the only Western leader who sees China for what is. Look into any form of decay afflicting the West and one finds it originated with China, which is exerting a baleful influence slowly but surely destroying the lives of our people.

  163. vox4non says:

    LOL It’s hard to believe that any sane adult would come up with so much verbiage as the two commentators “Sean” and “Really No Shit”. Is it a reflection of their sad pathetic lives, where they have been superseded by all and sundry (especially the minorities)?

    The only way that they can feel in control is to cast aspersions, insults and name-calling on others who do not share their worldview. All they can do is to project their inadequacies and failings on others.

    So much vitriol and threats makes one wonder about their mental health and their grasp of reality. As Shakespeare have said, “… full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.”

  164. Mefobills says:
    @Parfois1

    As I said before, political theory is not your forte. Cheers

    We’ll agree to disagree. I think you over-reacted. Also, my “political theory” is nuanced because politics is down-stream of economics.

    It used to be called political-economy, until the mathematicians wanted to make economics a “hard science” which it isn’t.

  165. Jigvocute says:
    @Sean

    Canines have such a low status in China that they eat them.

  166. Apparently Bejing also sees that Russian women’s hands won’t fold either and are quite miffed about it. I realize that China is a mono-culture compared to America, but if they have any serious ambitions to be global players, they might want to reconsider their charm offensive.

    Chinese men are becoming increasingly frustrated and dissatisified with Russian women to the point of having to critique the mystiques of Russian women in national Chinese publications, in hopes that the Russian women will get their acts together in order to satissfy Chinese men. 

    https://sputniknews.com/world/202006281079742293-chinese-outlet-names-three-chief-weaknesses-of-russian-brides/

    https://sputniknews.com/society/201911231077383156-fountain-of-youth-revealed-chinese-outlet-says-whats-behind-rapid-aging-of-russian-women/

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