The Unz Review • An Alternative Media Selection$
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 BlogviewPepe Escobar Archive
Bamboo Diplomacy: The China-SE Asia Romance
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>
Chinese Premier Li Keqiang will head Beijing’s delegation in Cambodia for regional meetings. Photo: CCTV screen grab

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • B
Show CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeThanksLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Thanks, LOL, or Troll with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used three times during any eight hour period.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

(From Asia Times)

The Association of Southeast Asian Nations is monopolizing the Asian and Global South spotlight for no fewer than 10 days, this week and the next, across a flurry of regional and international summits.

First stop is Phnom Penh for the 25th China-ASEAN summit, the 25th ASEAN Plus Three (APT) summit, and the 17th East Asia Summit, all the way to Sunday.

Next week will be Bali for the Group of Twenty, followed by Bangkok for the APEC (Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation) summit.

No wonder the diplomatic spin across Southeast Asia is all about global governance entering the “Asia moment” – as coined by Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi. It’s a moment that may be set to last a century – and beyond.

Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi. Photo: Wikimedia Commons
Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi. Photo: Wikimedia Commons

In parallel, Chinese diplomacy is also predictably on a roll. Premier Li Keqiang – who will step down next March, after two terms in office – heads Beijing’s delegation in Cambodia after two key Southeast Asian interactions: the visit by Vietnamese leader Nguyen Phu Trong to China and Chinese Vice-Premier Han Zheng’s visit to Singapore.

All that fits the pattern of increasing China-Southeast Asia integration. Since 2020, ASEAN has been China’s largest trading partner. China has been ASEAN’s top trading partner since 2009. Total China-ASEAN trade reached $878 billion in 2021, up from $686 billion in 2020. It had been $9 billion in 1991. China-ASEAN investment was more than US$340 billion by last July, according to the Ministry of Commerce in Beijing.

Interests particularly converge on deepening RCEP – the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership, the largest trade deal on the planet. That translates in practice as closer integration of supply chains, infrastructure connectivity and the building of a new international land-sea trade corridor.

So it’s no wonder all the slogans for these 10 days of summits reflect closer integration. The ASEAN 2022 theme is “ASEAN A C T: Addressing Challenges Together.” The Indonesians defined the G20 as “Recover Together, Recover Stronger.” And the Thais defined APEC as “Open. Connect. Balance.”

Now bend that bamboo

Timing is everything. After the Communist Party Congress defined the parameters of “peaceful modernization” and how Beijing will develop globalization 2.0 with Chinese characteristics, diplomacy was ready to go on the offensive. And not only across Southeast Asia.

On South Asia, Beijing hosted Pakistani Prime Minister Shehbaz Sharif. Regardless of who holds power in Islamabad, Pakistan remains strategically crucial, with the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) connecting to the Western Indian Ocean, the Persian Gulf, the Red Sea and beyond toward Europe.

Pakistan cannot be left to implode under severe financial constraints. So it’s no wonder that Xi Jinping promised that “China will continue to do its best to support Pakistan in stabilizing its financial situation.”

Pakistani PM Shehbaz Sharif visited Beijing. Photo: Creative Commons
Pakistani PM Shehbaz Sharif visited Beijing. Photo: Creative Commons

They were very specific on CPEC: Priorities are the construction of auxiliary infrastructure for Gwadar port in the Arabian Sea and to upgrade the Karachi Circular Railway project.

On Africa, Beijing hosted Tanzanian President Samia Suluhu.

Beijing is constantly inviting African leaders to discuss trade and investment in a “South-South” format. So it’s no wonder the Chinese find receptivity to their ideas and necessities to an extent that’s absolutely out of the question in the West.

China-Tanzania is now a “comprehensive strategic cooperative partnership.” This is quite significant, because now Tanzania is on the same level as Vietnam and Cambodia, as well as Kenya, Zimbabwe and Mozambique, in China’s ultra-complex “friendship” hierarchy. Tanzania, incidentally, is a crucial source of soybeans.

On Europe, Beijing received German Chancellor Olof Scholz for a lightning-fast visit, leading a caravan of business executives. Beijing may not “save” Berlin from its current self-enforced predicament; at least it’s clear that German business will not go for “decoupling” from China.

It’s crucial to remember that Vietnam, Pakistan and Tanzania are all key partners in the Belt and Road Initiative (BRI). And the same applies to Germany: The Ruhr Valley is the privileged Belt and Road terminal in the European Union.

All that leaves the Quad, AUKUS, the “Indo-Pacific Framework” and the “Partners for a Blue Pacific” – different denominations of isolation/demonization of China – trailing in the dust. Not to mention the imperial drive to impose “decoupling.”

Beijing knows full well Singapore’s role as the essential Southeast Asian finance/tech node. Hence the signing of 19 bilateral deals, some related to high tech.

But as far as optics go, the key visitor may have been Vietnam. Forget about their South China Sea tensions. For Beijing, what matters is that Nguyen Phu Trong came to visit immediately after the Communist Party conference – somehow echoing the centuries-old tribute system. Hanoi may have no interest whatsoever in being strategically dominated by Beijing. But demonstrating respect – and neutrality – is the Asian diplomatic way to go.

Trong made a point to note that “Vietnam considers its friendly cooperation with China the first priority of its foreign policy.”

That may not necessarily mean that Hanoi is privileging Beijing over Washington. The meaning of “first priority” seems to be clear: China and Vietnam agreed to turbocharge work on the Code of Conduct for the South China Sea. That also happens to be a key Chinese priority – as it keeps the process as an inter-Asian matter without the predictable “foreign interference.”

It was Trong himself who first came up with the fascinating idea of “bamboo diplomacy“: soft, clever, persistent and resolute. The concept may be easily applied to the whole of China-Southeast Asian relations.

Nguyen Phu Trong meets Xi Jinping on an earlier visit. Photo: VNA
Nguyen Phu Trong meets Xi Jinping on an earlier visit. Photo: VNA

Round up the jargon

This week in Phnom Penh, there are serious discussions on deepening the RCEP; problems on the food and energy front; and speeding up the negotiation of what is billed as the 3.0 version of the China-ASEAN Free Trade Area.

All that involves a key issue: the interconnection of BRI projects and ASEAN’s so-called Outlook on the Indo-Pacific – a series of ASEAN development strategies.

A good example is the endless high-speed-rail saga related to connecting Yunnan province in southern China to Singapore.

ORDER IT NOW

The building of the Thai section was proposed even ahead of the Laos section. Yet Kunming-Vientiane was ready in record time – and is rolling – while the Thais have been endlessly haggling and lost in corruption and internal infighting: Only part of their section at best will be finished by 2028.

The same applies to Malaysia and Singapore still not finding an agreement. This is the case of a key connectivity corridor across Southeast Asia hobbled by internal and bilateral trouble. In parallel, the construction of the Jakarta-Bandung high-speed railway has proceeded with only a few bumps.

As much as China and ASEAN established an official comprehensive strategic partnership in 2021, several key BRI projects are intimately connected to Southeast Asia. After all, Xi Jinping launched the Maritime Silk Road concept in Jakarta more than nine years ago.

The same applies to solving the seemingly intractable issues of the South China Sea. The Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea was signed by Beijing and ASEAN 20 years ago.

In geopolitical terms, the 10-headed ASEAN hydra is a unique beast: a living lab of peaceful – civilizational – co-existence.

Trade has always been the secret weapon. It has always been a two-way road between China and Southeast Asia. History tells us that the willingness of Southeast Asian rulers to submit – even if symbolically – to China explains the predominant Make Trade Not War ethos.

The main exception was Vietnam, occupied by China from 111 BC until AD 963-979. But even as Vietnam became independent from China a millennium ago, it always remained deeply influenced by Chinese culture. In contrast, the Chinese who were assimilated into Thai culture gave up Confucianism and ended up adopting Indian court rituals.

In parallel, as Professor Wang Gungwu in Singapore always noted, paying tribute and requesting protection from the Chinese imperial dynasties never meant that Beijing could do what it wanted across Southeast Asia.

In the current incandescent geopolitical juncture, China is definitely not interested in playing divide and rule in Southeast Asia. Chinese strategic planners seem to understand that ASEAN carries a lot of soft power smoothing the big power play across Southeast Asia, offering a platform for all to engage with each other.

No one seems to mistrust ASEAN. That also explains why the Southeast Asians have come up with an acronym fest that basically hails cooperation – from ASEM and ASEAN+3 to APEC.

So it’s enlightening to remember that “China is prepared to open itself to ASEAN countries,” as Xi himself said when he launched the Maritime Silk Road in Jakarta in 2013. “China is committed to greater connectivity with ASEAN countries” – and “China will propose the establishment of an Asian infrastructure investment bank that would give priority to ASEAN countries’ needs.”

The bilateral relationships between China and each of the 10 members of ASEAN may carry their own particular complications. But there seems to be a consensus that no bilateral will determine the future of China-Southeast Asian relations.

The discussions this week in Phnom Penh and next week in Bali and Bangkok suggest that Southeast Asia has ruled out either extreme: paying tribute or demonizing China.

Across Southeast Asia the Chinese diaspora has been informally referred to for decades as “the bamboo internet.” The same metaphor would apply to China-Southeast Asia diplomacy: Gotta go the bamboo way. Soft, clever, persistent – and enduring.

(Republished from Asia Times by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: Economics, Foreign Policy • Tags: ASEAN, China, Southeast Asia 
Hide 227 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
    []
  1. Anonymous[128] • Disclaimer says:

    It is starting to get clearer – China is winning big – the thing that is propelling them zooming past America is their apparent “Christian” attitudes towards the rest of the World. They have some interest in being good towards their neighbors – whereas America has a “Jewish” attitude towards the rest of the World. The “Christian” attitude realizes that we are all brothers in this World and we are all owed honest treatment – the “Jewish” attitude is that everyone (except our “tribe”) are there to be cheated or exploited to the full extent.
    The “Jewish” attitude is also that the other guy is too dumb to even notice that he is being exploited – that attitude always fails, because everyone always eventually figures out whose hand is in their pants pocket.
    We are not used to attributing “Christian” attitudes to the Chinese – but that is appearing to be the case – and that America acting is like the typical Jew – being overly greedy and stealing everything in sight also seems to be the case.
    We will soon see the benefit of living by the Golden Rule, and that even dogs recognize rotten treatment from creatures supposedly much more intelligent than they are. China will be rich and powerful and America will be poor and lonely.

  2. Fascinating way of putting it, Anon128. Thanks. The world looks so much better without America. Thanks for this article, Pepe.

    • Agree: Son of a Jedi
    • LOL: littlereddot
  3. Nomil says:
    @Anonymous

    I agree, thank you, briefly and to the point. If you look from afar and with an open mind at something complex, it becomes simple.

    • Agree: Poupon Marx
  4. Anon[104] • Disclaimer says:

    An American that lived in Great Britain for nearly 20 years gave me some very good information about the cause of the destruction of that culture.

    And what’s at the root of the UK’s current swirl into 3rd World stupidity, backwardness and corruption is not what people would be inclined to believe.

    It was allowing the backward Irish free access to Britain’s territory that set-in motion the irreversible decline into the muck for UK society.

    The American was astounded at the high number of very unintelligent, egregiously incompetent and vulgarly mannered Oirish he came across in positions of power in corporations, and in areas of social influence in the UK.

    Here’s just one example of the Oirish in UK society:

    [MORE]

    An Oirishman in a position of influence with UK intelligence involved himself in an illegal escapade to destroy a bridge on Russian territory – this act was recent and intended to aid Ukraine in its current war with Russia.

    This stupid Paddy (paddy is a slang nickname the British have for the dumb Oirish) carried out the planning for the destruction of the bridge using regular unencrypted phones, text messages and email apps. He basically used Google Gmail and very basic devices to ferment this plan to destroy the Russian bridge on behalf of the British government.

    Worse than this, this Oirish thicko also sent his own British passport details over Gmail whilst in the process of planning to bring down the Russian bridge.

    Needless to say, an amateur journalist intercepted the messages that this idiot Oirishman was sending and published details of his horrendous and unbelievable stupidity.

    The UKColumn, a news site in the UK, picked up on this Paddy’s dumbness and televised it. It was nice to see the personal page of this Oirish/British Intelligence Officer’s passport being displayed on TV at lunchtime.

    The dumb-tripe Oirish have infiltrated into every nook and cranny of Great Britain’s culture. Even before any 3rd World immigration to the UK, the tripe Oirish had lowered its average IQ to the low 90s.

    The subsequent influx of the 3rd World into the UK didn’t actually lower the average IQ much below 90. Black Africans were actually on a par with the Oirish IQ-wise, the Arabs a few points above, whilst the Indians are generally on a par with the native White English. The average IQ of the Republic of Ireland is 88.

    You always have to look for where the true fault lies. The responsibility for the destruction of Great Britain ultimately lies with the White English in the 19th century accepting uncontrolled numbers of thick Oirish to flood their territory.

    In Ireland in the 19th century where food was hard to find many of the lowest IQed thick Oirish would have perished. At least in Ireland at this time the dumb Paddies with the highest IQs would have been selected for.

    But in the UK in the 19th century the dumbest of the Oirish could find enough food to sustain themselves – eating from bins and collecting scraps from well-intentioned English people and such like. And with this access to enough food to survive the dumb Oirish bred like diseased rats.

    Skip forward to the 1950s and the breeding-rat Oirish had increased in numbers enough to lower the UK’s average IQ. And what was more criminal than this is that the inbred Oirish also had the vote.

    So, now the low IQ Oirish could use their votes to get revenge against White England for all the decades they had to rummage through their bins to feed themselves.

    It was the Labour Party that did the most harm in the UK, and without the thick Oirish vote the Labour Party would have only been in power a tenth of the time that it has been in the post war period.

    It’s likewise in the United States. Beta O’Rouke, paedo Joe Biden and his paedo son, and no end of other dumb debauched Oirish in places of influence.

    The Blacks play a very small part in the destruction of the United States. If the US dumbed the 50- or 60-million low-IQ dumb Oirish it has into the North Atlantic, its problems would be solved overnight.

    By the way, I request that any dumb Oirish that may respond to this to please not be rude to me. I’m super intelligent and therefore rather sensitive, and even though you’ll probably be using some type of indecipherable pidgin-English, please be polite and civil.

  5. This is the kind of deal that America offers south-east Asia:

    -America gets control over your economy and your political process

    -you get nothing

    It’s not hard to beat this kind of deal.

  6. Awesome!
    Being – Be-i-jing – bamboo ending The Blue(s) (Divide Et Impera)…
    It seems the opposite way to the EUSSR and its criminal comissioners an their “transatlantic” leads.
    When does Singapore drop the poisonous Blue?
    Where is the new Sovereign Nations (versus Jewnighted aka “United”) Office & Assembly going to be?
    May Jew Yolk literally turn trans-atlantic all the way down to bombed sea cables and tubes.

    • Replies: @Dieboomerdie
  7. @Anonymous

    Across Southeast Asia the Chinese diaspora has been informally referred to for decades as “the bamboo internet.

    The Chinese diaspora in SEA for the longest time has the highest collective GDP per capita in the world by a HUGE margin. Even during the time of Western colonization of the region, before the arrival of European powers and right now. The Brits, the Dutch, the French and later the Americans tried to break them and take over but none could do it. Even with the full might of the British empire in the 19th century, they couldn’t do it. Cartoon Biden and Blinken can? LOL!

    They control from 90% to 60% of the economy in Southeast Asia. Even China wouldn’t want to mess with them. That is one of the reason why I feel China will not invade Taiwan by force because most of the SEA Chinese diaspora are Fujian/Minnan people and Taiwanese are mostly Fujian/Minnan people.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
    , @Obsequious
  8. @Anon

    I’m not Irish. But I would like to point out that your comment is very harsh towards the Irish – many of whom are ANGLO Saxon.
    Nor do you mention the 100’s of years in which the British brutally exploited Ireland. That informs some Irish actions & attitudes.
    I can’t comment on Irish IQ, however I’m surprised you consider the Irish as being so manifestly stupid. Numerous Irish poets, writer’s, soldiers etc suggest otherwise…

    • Agree: Rubicon
    • Replies: @Dieboomerdie
  9. @Anonymous

    Beautiful. A fitting end to nation(s) that want to relive the Old Testaments. Did these retards ever realize that the Old Testaments didn’t have a happy ending for the kikes?

  10. @Anon

    And this is also a beautiful demonstration of “huwhite nationalism”.

  11. Ghali says:

    Correction: The President of Tanzania is Samia Suluhu Hassan.

  12. @Anon

    Somebody really has it in for the Irish 😭

  13. Beijing will develop globalization 2.0 with Chinese characteristics

    WTF? I don’t like globalisation with American characteristics so I doubt I’ll like this one any better. Down with globalisation with whosever characteristics!

    • Agree: Kali
  14. It looks like the Philippines, geographically isolated, also finds itself sidelined from China’s huge high speed BRI development train – diplomatically, politically, economically, culturally, and militarily. It need not be that way if the leadership uses its imagination to gain respect and influence among ASEAN and China. The Philippines can serve as an anchor of development security for itself and ASEAN/China from the depredations of the US intruder in Asia. But the Philippines to serve this critical role requires close security relations with China and ASEAN. Instead of serving (historically) as the US power springboard to the Asian mainland, the Philippines can act as the first line of defense for ASEAN/China. With the latter’s full security cooperation and development inclusion. This kind of relationship should benefit parties directly involved. Neglecting the Philippines as a peripheral backwater is an open invitation to the hegemonic monster to maintain its presence and threat to Asian development and modernization. The partnership with ASEAN/China will also compel tremendous internal restructuring of Philippine society, economy, culture, infrastructure integration, education, wealth sharing, etc., etc. Challenging but invigorating for everyone. Inshallah.

  15. Biff says:

    These APEC meetings snarl the traffic in a gawd-awful way, and the plebes are made to suffer – as per usual.

    Note to self: Don’t go to Bangkok next week.

  16. Recent headline in the news is that more world leaders visit China than the U.S. if one country offers trade while the other only offers contention and weapons sales and wars and forced identity values – well who do you think countries will much rather visit???

    ASEAN is liking their position and has told the US “no thanks”. Europe – especially Western Europe is really the only place the US still dominates. Even the Caribbean has refused to stop doing business with Russia. Much of the Americas are also ditching the US puppet Guiado in Venezuela too. Reality is the rise of China has benefited the Global South not just economically but diplomatically as well. The US spends so much time chasing every Chinese shadow that it gives the rest of the world more room to breathe without as much fear of US strangulation

  17. @Anonymous

    While I am in no way calling Confucianism divine – the Biblical and Confucian ethics are actually not too far off.

  18. @Brian Damage

    You also point out why the idea that American investment rebuilt China is another Psyops myth. As you noted ethnic Chinese dominated the economies of what we call ASEAN now for centuries and had huge amounts of wealth. The bamboo network of Southeast Asia and the people of Hong Kong and Taiwan are who invested 80% of the funds that rebuilt and industrialized Mainland China. Western funds came late in the game and were relatively minor in comparison

    • Agree: Mary Marianne
    • Replies: @Brian Damage
  19. @Anonymous

    The “Christian” attitude realizes that we are all brothers in this World and we are all owed honest treatment – the “Jewish” attitude is that everyone (except our “tribe”) are there to be cheated or exploited to the full extent.

    If you changed “Jewish” to “5-eyers’”, you would be telling the truth!!!

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/concentric-circles-of-loyalty/#comment-4914927

    The “Jewish” attitude is also that the other guy is too dumb to even notice that he is being exploited – that attitude always fails, because everyone always eventually figures out whose hand is in their pants pocket.

    They have already figured that out:

    https://www.republicworld.com/world-news/europe/emmanuel-macron-slams-us-for-selling-gas-at-higher-prices-calls-it-double-standard-articleshow.html

    On TV news today, Macron also accused the US of using the excess earnings from its gas sales to subsidize its other industries in order to force out European competitions!!!

    • Replies: @Deep Thought
  20. @animalogic

    Aren’t these exactly the same arguments about muh oppression Indian immigrants to the UK use? Because this narrative strengthens his point about the Irish, it doesn’t detract it.

    Nobody cares they’re white too, it’s allowing foreigners to settle on your land because it’s politically expedient. You either have nationality by blood or you have a circus that believes in magic dirt.

  21. Smith says:

    Would be nice if they can finalize the South East Asia sea Code of Conduct with the SEA community and put the 9-dash-line in the trash bin of bad ideas in history!

  22. @Kurt Knispel

    I hope you realize you’re reading badly written propaganda and it will pan out the same as Russias illegal invasion of Ukraine that resulted in nothing but pure embarrassment for Putins roving gang of impotent drunks. It’s hilarious reading the Russia fan fiction of the last months on this site.

  23. Nat X says:

    Need to change the name from the unz review to the slant review.

    • Replies: @Anon
  24. @Deep Thought

    “To be an enemy of the US is dangerous, but to be a friend is fatal”

  25. @Anonymous

    I always saw cause and effect to be the way of existence. What else could life be but solid, material, fluid, alive, evolving but as itself, what it is made of, rules and nature. Whatever you do produce concurrent results, relevant to itself and what it is doing, whatever goes/going on with it…which is from where comes the saying ‘do unto others what you would like done unto you…you get exactly what you do to others

    Humans are born out of nature as nature lives and produces, evolves things. Nature is material, physical, alive, evolved everything including humans, sentient, conscious, die ultimately, all individuals having an absolute, physical maximum longevity individuals and group. Life forms, evolves in species…species/must eat to live but food is not secure, must be found to be edible and nutritious/found/earned-prepared-secured and some saved and stored for another day..

    All ways relevant to food – technologies in securing, preparation and saving, in doing food must be developed as humans survive over time or we won’t survive. In doing all of this we underpin species survival and what we call development -social development that includes philosophy, ideology, politic, economic etc. This is what is crucial to human development- advancement maximises our chances of indefinite survival in nature…not max dollars but max survival skill and focus on truth that increases human chances
    but advancing human understanding of nature and skill in survival in nature, branching out, increasing individual longevity, maxing out human biological diversity and fitness responses to human activity on the planet

    Humans as individuals are physically insecure and must survive from day to day. Humans begin life ignorant of nature from where our insecurity begins. Such a start poses challenges to each and all life forms not only humans all along the way. All individual life is on the line all the time.

    We do not start with the overall, limitless existential relevance connection and meaning we have to each other’s survival, and that ultimately as soon as we become aware of it we must come to work collectively with this as purpose definition of our work, or we will eliminate ourselves as a species…that our work would have the opposite effect of survival for ourselves as individuals/collective.

    The economic systems we have used have expanded us greatly at the sme time they have produces horrific exploitation of each other, and massive, horrific genocides of each other, to the point we now have the ability to exterminate oursles as a species with the push of button…but at the same time we have developed maximally the very understading I am trying to describe here…that we have the advancement to move forward to what is our clear purose as in life, defined by obvious and simple understanding of nature, what our clear, obvious absolute purpose is…and twhat our resultant way of life must be if we are to survive…and that is to ensure our indefinite survival as a species, to live in nature in our our best interest period and tola and to achive that maximally we are required to take care our ourselves and therfre must take care of the planet

    IT IS CLEAR BY SIMPLE LIFE-EXPERIENCE THAT THERE IS NO GOD LIKE WE HAVE DEFINED AND USED TO UNDERPIN THE PHILOSOPHICAL/IDEOLOGICAL SYSTEMS BY WHICH WE HAVE LIVED, LIVE BY…THAT BY THE WAY WE LIVE, WE CAN SEE THAT ANYONE-ANYTHING WHO/WHAT HAS MADE ANYTHING THAT EXISTS, WOULD MAKE SUCH UNLIKE ITSELF. ANY GOD THAT MAKES, SHAPES-FORMS-CREATES A LIFE FORM IT WOULD DO SO FORM IT GOD-LIKE, OR IT WOULD BE WASTING IT’S TIME. HOW ELSE COULD, IT! WOULD IT CREATE IT! SUCH A FORM OR SPECIES?

    SUCH A GOD WOULD SIMILARLY BE WASTING ITS TIME WERE TO CAUSE NATURAL PROCESSES TO EVOLVE SUCH A SPECIES AS HUMANS ARE TOUTED BY OURSELVES TO BE IN ALL OUR RELAVANCES AND COMPARATIVES IN NATURE…AS EXCEPT IN COMING INTO THE REALITIES WE HAVE PROVEN OF OURSELVES WE ARE POINTLESS, RIDICULOUS, JACKASS

    HUMANS CAN IN FACT ONLY NOW MAKE SENSE, RELEVANCE, IF WE BRING OUR CULTURAL LIFE, SOCIETY, PHILOSOPHIES/IDEOLOGIES INTO RELEVANCE WITH THE TRUTH OF NATURE, OURSELVES WE HAVE PROVEN, CREATE WAYS OF LIVING THAT ADJUST AS WE ADVANCE IN NATURE, INCREASE OUR KNOWLEDGE ALONG THE WAY.

    The Chinese, Russians, the East are way ahead of the West who should in fact be ahead given our material advance. Western capitalism has now fully developed, produced the means for the solution of human material problems but cannot resolve the capitalist class problem, revolutionize western society, eliminate capitalism and find ways to use the stage of the day to advance human society and enhance human chances of indefinite survival. instead Western philosophy enhances the aspects of natural life in our philosophies/religious/political enomic ideologies that entraps humanity in a genocidal/suicidal framework we seemingly cNT GET OUT OF domined as it is by a lunatic Jewish perspective that they cannot correct

    The ways of natural insecurity into which humanity has evolved ensured out individual conscious subjective and personal insecurity and millenial phisophical/ideological ways of seeinf things, of seeing and living life…hence we have theJudaism and a great part of christianity full of lies and manipulation and philosophical manipulations to control adherents, societies, populations, slaves, colonials etc….the focus of societies on social control not human survival. With the arrival of capitalism at its current stage and human capability to eliminate itself our time to play games with truth has run out. We must come to our truth and bring human culture into essential with the required collective response essential for human survival in nature or given our stage of advancement we may bring about our own extinction

  26. annon says:

    Peking Pepe shamelessly shilling and wrong as always. loans not being paid for the now useless belt and road propaganda which cannot cross Russia effectively anymore. while central Asia exploits Russian weakness and starts to run amok. Turkey big winner. Xi nowhere and watching his own back at home where people plot against Big Brother everyday since his coronation.. I’m LorenzodaPonte

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  27. Anon[338] • Disclaimer says:

    Whatever the opinions of the “experts” I agree with China being a foil to the West. Anyone with an ounce of sense will say that having two opposing forces stimulates (we hope) good sense and caution in the behaviour of both parties. Well, in theory at least !

    However, if history is any teacher and if history’s lessons are to be respected, we find that each side wants to dominate their partners and each side wants to get the upper hand on the other. That is, the one with the muscle wants to be “The MAN”.

    In my opinion, China can corral all the allies in the region and bark about Asia first. However, the trouble will start when it naturally seeks to call the shots. This will be exacerbated by the fact that while “Asians” seem to be a cohesive body China seeks to harness, it is fact many different cultures some of which dislike China. Vietnam is one example !

    The alliance with Russia is also unnatural, the two cultures being different. Moscow and Beijing have been buddies before and their brotherly love has unfortunately dissipated. This will happen again !

    Any alliance with India and or Pakistan will be an unnatural love affair and set the other up as a bitter rival. India already has its issues with Xi. The cultures of all three are vastly different and if China thinks it will ultimately call the shots with both or either of these two, then Xi must have been consuming too many pork dumplings.

    In the meantime, while China is keeping an eye on its bedfellows, it must also watch the manoeuvre of the opposition, not only the Alpha male but the lesser players. The fact is, everyone will be watching everyone else all the while scheming to further their own interests. Talk about a witch’s brew !

    Every other Empire (and even primitive Tribes and criminal gangs ) has followed the same fool’s course with the same result. These alliances like love and marriage don’t go together like a horse and carriage. The wheels not only fall off, but the horse bolts and the whole contraption with the passengers run into the ditch.The driver and footmen generally get it the worse as there is usually nothing to hinder their forward momentum.

    Bamboo diplomacy first, then the Big Bamboo (aka the BBC) second and third the Bamboo cane and anyone who has ever seen a split Bamboo stick in action will tell you it splits on contact, the edges are sharp and then the whip pinches thus cutting the skin and drawing blood.

    I wish China all the best in its endeavours but my humble advice to Xi is simple. If lurking in the dark recesses of his mind is absolute control over his allies AND the other side, he needs to understand that world domination is best left to Pinky and the Brain on the Saturday morning cartoons.

    • Replies: @littlereddot
  28. @Dieboomerdie

    This is why your cuntry is going down the drain. Cunts like you are too stupid to stop it.

  29. Why China is similar to early 20th Century German Empire:

    1) Ah wantz muh stolen territory returned
    2) Muh place in the sun n’ sheit
    3) Muh centuries of foreign domination/interference
    4) Muh centuries of disunity
    5) Ah wantz a world class navy
    6) Ah wantz colonies and muh spheres of influence
    7) Ah wantz evrabodee to buy muh products
    8) Ah wantz respeck

  30. Could China Survive the Sanctions Against Russia?

    • Replies: @mulga mumblebrain
  31. @Ben Sampson

    Nice rant, except that the Russians are Christians and the Chinese believe in Tao.

    Why are “huwhites” so retarded and far up their own asses? Is it because of a lack of soul? They kept calling the Chinese and Russians soulless bugmen just 5 years ago. Now we are seeing the opposite.

  32. Anon[338] • Disclaimer says:
    @Nat X

    China is a big country but their billions of people live on just 57% of their landmass, most of the country being uninhabitable. While the people “slanted toward China talk up its prosperity, that Xi raised millions out of poverty, this bombast withers under scrutiny .

    What I mean is if poverty meant the Chinaman ate one meal a day, then being raised out of poverty means he is now able to eat 1.5 and have some tea and a cookie before bed. The “prosperity” is yelped about using the glittering cities as the example. Yet many of these cities are crumbling and empty with buildings that are falling apart. In the rural areas, the poverty is severe accompanied with lack of water, heating and sanitation. In rural areas folks still scavenge road kill and dogs running free are non existent. Like everything else, the CCP doth flatter themselves too much !

    China, is not self sufficient with severe famines going back to AD 900 with millions dying. It must have the resources of other countries or it will dry up and perish. Hence, we see China exploiting resources in Latin America and especially Africa. Cut those off and a lot of Gooks will be Spooks !

    As for Africa, the Politicians and population is waking up to the new colonialists, arrogant and full of themselves. Other “Asian ” countries are already at their nerves end with these people.

    The time is not far off when these newly arrived locusts will be expelled and then we shall see how Xi will feed, house and clothe his 1.4 B people. You can bet noodles with a little rat or fish heads will again be in vogue. All the arrogance will vanish overnight when the rice bowl is empty and the cop sticks stand unused.

    As for the Chinese who remain in Africa and refuse to return to their Utopia, might I say, THEY will be eaten. And those deemed not palatable will be distributed to the Tribal Chiefs to be slaves. Every dog has his day, no pun intended !

    • Troll: antibeast
  33. 1) China must be aware of the danger of treachery from “crucial” Pak.
    Just deposed, tried assassinate a popular and efficient PM.
    Pakistan is a paid servant of US.

    2) Looks like nothing ever changes in Muang Thai.
    Endemic corruption, family/clan infighting.
    How to resolve this after death of King Bumiphol ?

    3) Philippines an offshore US-friendly entity ?

  34. @Anon

    Average Irish IQ is 92 and ranks 15th on the world stage as per Brainstats. In cases where people state they are intelligent or have high IQ’s, frequently the opposite is the case…regards..Justa Peon

  35. Anonymous[271] • Disclaimer says:

    Propping up Pakistan? Now I know China is doomed to a big badass failure!

  36. Anonymous[180] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    It’s the orthodox Christian way, not the ravaging western criminal Catholic Christian way. The Vatican is a sinister rogue tool of western hegemony.

  37. @Anon

    I suspect that he’s O’Isrelish.

  38. Dumbo says:
    @Anon

    LOL. Is this satire? Anglos screwing everyone all over, including their own working class, in cahoots with the Jews — then they blame the Irish, whom they oppressed for centuries.

    Seriously, is there any race more despicable than the WASPs?

  39. @Ben Sampson

    Gimme shelter. Gimme some food and rye whiskey and I promise to stay awake and applaud at the end (have someone nudge me).

    • Replies: @Ben Sampson
  40. @showmethereal

    You also point out why the idea that American investment rebuilt China is another Psyops myth. As you noted ethnic Chinese dominated the economies of what we call ASEAN now for centuries and had huge amounts of wealth. The bamboo network of Southeast Asia and the people of Hong Kong and Taiwan are who invested 80% of the funds that rebuilt and industrialized Mainland China. Western funds came late in the game and were relatively minor in comparison

    Yes. The SEA diaspora, HK and Taiwan are the ones who invested in China and helped China to be able to be a manufacturing juggernaut. It was Singapore that first invested in the little fishing village Shenzhen. Today Shenzhen is probably the most futuristic city in the world with a population of 13 million.

    I remember reading about how the US were “laughing” at China wondering who will invest in such a backward place back in the 80s.

    • Replies: @antibeast
    , @showmethereal
  41. A word of caution. Often it is repeated that China in the past was not imperial invader, that is, it did not invade other countries to annex them to its empire; instead, it was supposed to be satisfied with tribute, and the tributary nations were in awe of Chinese culture but not about Chinese conquest. A further step is that Chinese influenced people by their culture.

    There are a lot of flaws in these arguments. First, the capacity for projecting power over long distances, especially through overland routes, was highly limited in the past; journeys took longer time, making logistics difficult for sending conquering armies to the other end of the Eurasian continent. Even then Mongol could sweep from one end to the other.

    Second, China invaded annexed all those lands it could hold on; it left only those lands which it could not hold by force; a good example is Vietnam. Vietnam was annexed to Chinese empire till it became impossible to hold on to it. Chinese became satisfied with tribute from only those countries which they realised could not be held for long by force. So, all the countries Chinese have conquered and held on to became China! All the countries they could not hold on to for long became tributaries. Had the ancient Chinese emperors been able to project power like a modern power, they would have probably conquered the whole South East Asia.

    Third, the Chinese cultural model did not cut much ice even with the Japanese, their next door neighbour. The entire South East Asia admired the Chinese empire, and obeyed, but it did not become a cultural colony of China; instead, it opted to adapt Indian religion, scripts and a bit of culture. Chinese culture did not seep into the Mongols.

    All the expectations of China behaving the same way as in the past ignore the changes in technology and capacity. The present China may well turn out to be a conquering power. We need to wait for at least three or four rulers before drawing some reliable conclusions.

  42. @Allan P.-E. Tolentino

    It looks like the Philippines, geographically isolated, also finds itself sidelined from China’s huge high speed BRI development train – diplomatically, politically, economically, culturally, and militarily. It need not be that way if the leadership uses its imagination to gain respect and influence among ASEAN and China.

    The Philippines is the most confused country. Delusions of being part of the West by subserviently seeking affirmation while at the same time main income earners by native Filipinos are the maids working in other Southeast Asian countries, Hong Kong, and by the laborers in the Middle East. Almost all of domestic industries are owned by the Spanish mestizos and the Chinese diaspora.

    This identity crisis is so obvious. Unlike many other SEA countries with rich civilizations, the Philippines never had one until the Spanish colonized the archipelago. I never understood why after independence from the US in 1946, the country never changed its name. Still the country “owned by King Philip II”. The word “Filipino” sounds like King Philip’s boys. I would start by renaming the country. I like Duterte’s suggestion. The Republic of Maharlika. Or even better, Nusantara. Google that.

    • Agree: antibeast
    • Replies: @Hacienda
    , @Adrian
  43. Hacienda says:
    @Brian Damage

    The Philippines is the most confused country.

    Let’s not confuse confused with tiny. Flips are tiny. There’s a world of difference.

    I played pickup basketball with Flips. They acted like tiny niggers with the shoes and hanging, colorful polyester shirts. But Flips can’t quite do nigger- not to get too academic- either in form or substance.
    Being tiny, they couldn’t slam, jump, defend, out-run. But they still had the attitude. In tiny Flip form.

    The Philippines are at max velocity. The US showed surprising good sense, for a change, by leaving it.

  44. @Commentator Mike

    Thanks Mike.

    Find self hoping that those reports are really too negative.
    That General Armageddon really is a patriot.
    That V. V. Putin has not privately arranged Jewkraine with the scum of the earth.

    Know I’m not alone in looking for positive news on this front.
    Not some face-saving fake ceasefire “to save lives” either.

    Because that’s what it’s starting to look like.
    I.e. the soon coming carveup of Russia, then China, by the Moneychangers, solidly established in their New Israel, capital city Kiev.

  45. Many years ago there was a shop in San Francisco, USA named ‘China Book and Periodical’. I remember going there to buy stunningly prosperous-appearing and hopeful propaganda posters from Red China. These cartoons featured fish farms with weirs and nets bursting at the seams with tilapia and carp; they showed amber waves of grain stretching to the horizon being harvested by healthy, strong young people manning huge combines and tractors; modern rolling mills produced steel beneath smokeless, pollution free skies. Well, we all know now that was all bulldink and jive. The reality was most Chinese country people were then living in Third World conditions.
    In any case this article by Escobar far surpasses China Book and Periodical for mindless rah rah cheerleading, and jive. It is a piece of rubbish which doesn’t belong at UNZ.

    The new silk road will end in the Ruhr Valley? Now that is bat shit crazy stuff.

    The overseas Chinese are not well liked. They were pogromed from Indonesia in the 1960s, and when the Viet Cong were victorious in Viet Nam they forced them into boats at gun point. The high IQ Chinese own and operate Singapore but who’s to say the low IQ Malays might one day get greedy and push them out?

    Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Indonesia are all Muslim countries who consider Chinese the Kings of the kaffirs for eating pigs, cats, dogs and bats.

    And then the jewel in the crown of the New Silk Road is the shit hole country of Tanzania: a place of rolling blackouts in the city and darkness in the countryside. Hunger, malnutrition, poor water supply and no sanitation. Per capita income is $438. I doubt very much they export soybeans.

    Anyway, China once again re-invents the wheel. This ‘peaceful modernisation with Chinese characteristics’ is imperialism or neo imperialism all over again.

    • Disagree: antibeast
  46. @Old Brown Fool

    Third, the Chinese cultural model did not cut much ice even with the Japanese, their next door neighbour. The entire South East Asia admired the Chinese empire, and obeyed, but it did not become a cultural colony of China; instead, it opted to adapt Indian religion, scripts and a bit of culture. Chinese culture did not seep into the Mongols.

    So many people speaking from the side of their mouth to fit a narrative. Ignorance is bliss.

    The Japanese, Koreans and Vietnamese used Chinese characters until only recently Vietnam got their language romanized by the French, both Japan and Korea still use Chinese characters for traditional words, or least Japan does. All still practice traditional Chinese culture and practice confucianism. They are still very Han culture-like especially the Tang Dynasty style. Even their traditional clothes are Han clothes. Chinese traditional clothing changed a bit after the Manchus ruled China for close to 300 years. That shaved head with pony tails? That’s Manchurian. Those garish colors? Manchurians. Go visit Xian, the capital city of the Han and Tang Dynasties and see the architecture there. Google “Tang dynasty Hanfu” for Han clothes.

    Indian princelings expanded their territories to Southeast Asia all the way to Cambodia way before China ever had any interest in the region. I am talking about way back, like 200bc. That’s why upper part of Southeast Asia still have Sanskrit structure in their languages while the southern part were influenced by Arab traders later on, adopted Islam and used Arabic scripts until the British and Dutch took over and forced them to romanize.

    Thailand and Laos were originally Hindu based until perhaps 3 to 4 hundreds years ago when Chinese influence began to gain foothold. Today, both Thai and Laos while on the surface still have their Sanskrit based language and architecture, their culture is more Chinese than Indian.

    Here’s a nugget for you. Around the 1200s, one of the Indian princelings founded the Majapahit empire that spanned from Java, Sumatra to southern peninsula Malaysia. The flag of Majapahit is red and white stripes. That empire ended roughly around late 1500s. Even after that, ships in the area still flew the Majapahit flag. Especially pirate ships. When the British East India came over to plunder, they too flew the Majapahit flag but with the Union Jack on the top left. At least the Dutch East Indies flag was more original. It retained the Majapahit red and white multiple stripes and added blue stripes to represent Dutch colors.

    Guess where the American flag originated from? From pirates. I remember educating an ignoramus who said the Malaysian flag is a copy of the US flag. The Malaysian flag is far more original than the US flag as it was part of the Majapahit empire that was islamicized hence the crescent moon on the top left. Indonesia retained the Majapahit flag but with just one red stripe and one white stripe. Singapore, a Chinese majority city state was caught between a rock and a hard place had to adopt the Majapahit flag with a crescent moon. Sort of a compromise between Malaysia and Indonesia.

    • Thanks: showmethereal
  47. @Anonymous

    Christian attitudes ? Really ?

  48. @Arthur MacBride

    Who knows what’s going on? Maybe they hope to shake hands with Americans who will thank them for testing each other’s weapon systems and tactics, and US and NATO will go back to ganging up on some hapless little country. Maybe nothing much will change except that many got killed. At least we’ll remember Putin for some great anti-globalist speeches.

  49. @Arthur MacBride

    My attention has been drawn to this vdo.
    It’s familiar analysis.
    Hope it’s accurate.

  50. @TheAntidoteToToxins

    From this villainous, racist, thug one can see the REAL reason for the genocidal hatred of the Chinese which is so rife in the West these days. Pure race hatred and inchoate RAGE that the Chinese are proving so superior to the glorious White ubermenschen. Ending with corruscating race hatred for Tanzanians.
    This is a race and civilizational war as the dying West struggles to maintain its dominance over the lesser breeds. The Chinese example is what Chomsky called the ‘Good Example’ of a country that puts its people first, NOT Western investors or the Western Overlords ensconced in their ‘gardens’, to quote Josep Borrel, while the various sub-human ‘niggers’ exist in ‘jungles’. The ending is, as usual with racist imbeciles, pure projection, as their tiny insect minds cannot comprehend ANY way of existence for a State but dominating or being dominated.
    Here, in Austfailia, our inconsequential, one-term, PM, Albanese, has turned full ‘pipsqueak bombadier’. He was off, he declared to the MSM vermin, to confront the Evil Fu Man Xi, his little loser’s mug twisted into a weakling’s impersonation of a ‘determined’, yet repulsed, visage, as he contemplated ‘facing down’ the Oriental despot. He was going to stand up for ‘Australian Values’ (easy, stomach!) such as locking up Indigenous kids at age ten in adult gaols, incarcerating Indigenous men, women and children at the world’s highest rates, and locking up refugees for decades in off-shore Hell-holes imposed on our neighbours etc. He has at last seen his duty to the race, and taken up The White Man’s Burden, albeit performatorily, and poorly, as expected.

  51. Check out Garland Nixon on the Duran: https://theduran.com/freeze-this-conflict-or-escalate-w-garland-nixon-live/.

    His thesis: the U.S. using the Ukraine was as a pretext to deindustrialize Europe in favor of its own economy. Essentially, it’s the quasi-genocidal Morgenthau Plan all over again only, this time, “Fuck ’em, they’re all Germans!” (My gloss, not his.)

    He seems to think their only hope is Russia, China, BRICS+/BRI, but they won’t likely realize it until it’s too late and they see their comprador elites clinging to the wheels of the last plane out of Frankfurt/Kabul.

  52. @loner feral cat

    The sanctions against Russia have strengthened Russia and hurt the West. Sanctions against China, with or without Chinese retaliation, would DEVASTATE the West, and leave China virtually unaffected.The Western racists, in their frenzy of hatred for China, have gone barking mad,( as the Gods prepare their destruction), egged on by lunatics like Friedman and Zeihan, and that favoured CIA journal of record, the Epoch Times.

    • Replies: @loner feral cat
  53. @TheAntidoteToToxins

    The overseas Chinese are not well liked.

    A few decades after the gaining independence from their divide and conquer colonial masters, the affluent chinese diaspora in SEA were despised as natives were poor. Not so much nowadays. They knew they need the Chinese diaspora to “engine” their industries.

    They were pogromed from Indonesia in the 1960s,

    Read the “Jakarta Method” for more info on this. In the 1960s, the Americans started to “spread democracy” to Southeast Asia, Sukarno, then president was not on board and was subjected to “regime change”. Pro-US general Suharto was funded heavily by the CIA to topple the Sukarno regime and tried to break the economic hold by the Chinese diaspora under the guise of rooting “communism”. Thousands of ethnic Chinese were massacred along with hundreds of thousands of pro-Sukarno supporters. Post-USSR, Suharto no longer needed by the US, and no longer supported by the US was voted out in 1997. Afterwards, Suharto’s faction tried to stirred up sh%t again by instigating another anti-Chinese riots in Jakarta May 1998. Since then, ethnic Chinese in Indonesia enjoyed more rights than ever. Allowed to practice Chinese culture, have Chinese names, have Chinese schools and allowed to speak Mandarin and/or their Minnan dialects. Even the previous governor of Jakarta is ethnic Chinese.

    and when the Viet Cong were victorious in Viet Nam they forced them into boats at gun point.

    I was in Ho Chi Minh City (Saigon) before covid. Ho Chi Minh City is by far the richest city in Vietnam. Full of ethnic Chinese. Most industries are still owned by Vietnamese-Chinese.

    The high IQ Chinese own and operate Singapore but who’s to say the low IQ Malays might one day get greedy and push them out?

    Ain’t gonna happen. If they couldn’t do it in their own countries what made you think they can do it to the most sophisticated military force in Southeast Asia.

  54. @TheAntidoteToToxins

    1)A Big Lie-China has settled ALL its territorial disputes with is fourteen or so neighbours, but poor old India, re-living The Raj.
    2)Baboon projection. China believes in, and practises, respect for other States, so very unlike the West.
    3) An historical fact that this racist wishes to re-impose.
    4)That’s over, Whitey-now it’s your turn.
    5)A large navy in ship numbers, puny in tonnage compared to the USA, and almost entirely for DEFENSE, not for bombing defenceless victims Back to the Stone Age as Whitey heroes like you so love doing.
    6)Another Big Lie-China wants ‘win-win’ co-operation, again the opposite of the Whitey Bosses.
    7)Doesn’t everybody? It’s still a matter of choice. This is dumb, even for you.
    8)Don’t we all? You’ll have to work on it, starting from a subterranean base.

    • Agree: JR Foley
    • Replies: @TheAntidoteToToxins
  55. @Allan P.-E. Tolentino

    You are correct but it is not simple. Duterte tried this – but the Filipino military is firmly in the hands of the US. Marcos Jr is less combative than Duterte and is more resigned to that fact. And of course the US does not want a prosperous Philippines. Where will if recruit cheap nurses and other medical workers from?

    • Replies: @Brian Damage
    , @antibeast
  56. @annon

    Yup the same Turkiye who refused to sanction Russia and even is will to trade with Russia in rubles. Turkiye just announced a new deal to buy more gas from Iran. The joke is on NATO.

    I should have known you were just trolling when you said useless belt and road. You need to learn what global trade numbers have been doing and where it is occurring

    • Agree: A B Coreopsis
  57. @Old Brown Fool

    The Mongols absolutely adopted Chinese ways. What on earth are you talking about??? They even named themselves to be a successor Chinese Dynasty – the Yuan Dynasty. They adopted the Chinese style of government because they saw it as a superior way to govern – after they conquered. It was the Mongols who took Han Chinese guns and paper and currency and brought them to the wider world – thereby changing the course of history. In case you didn’t know to this day more Mongols live in China than in Mongolia itself. They were absorbed into China without forced integration. Beijing itself became the established capital under the Mongols. So does that mean Beijing is not Chinese…???

    As to Japan. That is post WW2 western friendly propaganda. Japan was basically an acolyte of Tang Dynasty China. Aside from Shinto – the majority of things people see as Japanese were of Chinese influence. I mean you can start right at the alphabet…. Then continue to tea and agriculture practices and bonsai and Zen and architecture and many martial arts. I mean any serious student of history knows that for basically a thousand years – from Tang until the Meiji Restoration and subsequent industrial revolution – Japan was heavily influenced by China.

    As to Vietnam. Why do people forget Vietnam was literally founded by a Chinese general and Vietnamese population has many of the same exact ethnic groups that exist in Southern China…???

    • Thanks: dogbumbreath
    • Replies: @Brian Damage
    , @Smith
  58. @showmethereal

    the Filipino military is firmly in the hands of the US. Marcos Jr is less combative than Duterte and is more resigned to that fact.

    Marcos Jr is like his dad. Corrupt to the core. Seems like King Philip II’s boys like to elect people that will make them poorer.

    And of course the US does not want a prosperous Philippines.

    Only the Philippines can have a trade deficit. Importing more than exporting. For a country rich with natural resources and plenty of manpower. Sigh… Filipinos are emigrating like crazy to the West as immigration rules are relaxed in the West to attract more immigrants to “.. ahem.. sustain” their economies. I wonder what happened to that “Filipino Pride”.

    • Agree: showmethereal
  59. antibeast says:
    @Brian Damage

    Yes. The SEA diaspora, HK and Taiwan are the ones who invested in China and helped China to be able to be a manufacturing juggernaut. It was Singapore that first invested in the little fishing village Shenzhen. Today Shenzhen is probably the most futuristic city in the world with a population of 13 million.

    HK and Taiwan were the first to invest in Shenzhen in the 1980s while Singapore was the first to invest in Suzhou in the 1990s.

    I remember reading about how the US were “laughing” at China wondering who will invest in such a backward place back in the 80s.

    Back in the 1980s, US capitalists were eager to invest in China by forming joint ventures such as McDonnell Douglas, AMC, AT&T, etc. which were disbanded after the US government imposed sanctions against China after Tiananmen in 1989. During the 1990s, Deng went out and courted foreign investors from Asia which led to the establishment of diplomatic relations between China and Singapore. European investors then followed suit, especially German companies. After US firms saw their Asian and European competitors gaining market share in China, US capitalists then lobbied the US Congress to grant MFN status to China in 2000, which allowed China to finally join the WTO in 2001. By the time, US multinationals started investing in the 2000s, their Asian (eg Japanese) and European (eg German) competitors were already well-established in China.

    • Agree: JR Foley
    • Thanks: Brian Damage
  60. antibeast says:
    @showmethereal

    You are correct but it is not simple. Duterte tried this – but the Filipino military is firmly in the hands of the US. Marcos Jr is less combative than Duterte and is more resigned to that fact.

    The USA has too much dirt on the kleptocratic Marcos family which is seeking to gain power in order to protect their own private wealth and promote their own personal interests. So Marcos Jr will try to appease the USA just to save his own family even if Filipinos themselves don’t want US military bases in the Philippines as proven by the popularity of Duterte’s anti-American ideology. The USA could try to revive the Spratly Islands dispute which Duterte shelved in favor of closer economic relations between China and the Philippines. But Marcos Jr has only so much time left before the USA — which is already mired in a deep-seated crisis of its own making — leaves the scene in Asia which is now fast coalescing around China’s BRI, BRICS, AIIB and SCO. Even India is now balking at US pressure to isolate Russia while Pakistan has seen a US-instigated regime-change against Imran Khan for his refusal to back US moves against Russia. Now Saudi Arabia is talking about joining the BRICS!

    And of course the US does not want a prosperous Philippines. Where will if recruit cheap nurses and other medical workers from?

    The Philippines is already behind ASEAN countries like Vietnam and Indonesia. Other than sending tens of millions of Filipinos to work abroad, the Philippines badly needs investments in physical infrastructure and manufacturing industries while improving its peace and order as well as public governance and social welfare. All these things the USA can not provide except maybe call center jobs in the Philippines and nursing jobs in the USA. Duterte had made the right choice by pivoting to China which could have made those badly needed investments in physical infrastructure and manufacturing industries but Marcos Jr has opted to switch back to the USA for the aforementioned reasons.

  61. Adrian says:
    @Brian Damage

    Yes I too have wondered why post-independence Philippines stuck so lamely to its colonial name whereas all other formerly colonized SEAsian countries changed theirs.

    “Nusantara” would be a nice name, fitting in with the country’s Malay-Polynesian languages.

    Or Multatuli’s proposal for pre-independence Indonesia: Insulinde. I understand that the name “Maharlika” was laughed out of court – apparently it means ‘big organ”.

    • Replies: @Brian Damage
  62. @TheAntidoteToToxins

    I promise myself not to reply to trolls but I don’t think anyone can resist a Bharat troll. Too comical.

    Whatever this troll posted is just a projection of his Jai-Hindness.

  63. HK and Taiwan were the first to invest in Shenzhen in the 1980s while Singapore was the first to invest in Suzhou in the 1990s.

    Shenzhen is next to HK and after the establishment of the Shenzhen Special Economic Zone (SEZ) naturally initial investment came from nearby HK. Singapore had a huge hand in Shenzhen. It was Deng who brought a bunch of CPP officials in the 80s to Singapore to learn its system and also had Singapore to help kick start the Suzhou Industrial Park and Tianjin Ecocity. At least that’s what I understood over the years of reading financial news.

    Taiwan had more of an impact on its cousin across the straits. The Fujian province. Taiwan’s tech prowess had an impact on Shenzhen once it gained momentum.

    • Replies: @antibeast
  64. @Adrian

    Yes I too have wondered why post-independence Philippines stuck so lamely to its colonial name whereas all other formerly colonized SEAsian countries changed theirs.

    “Nusantara” would be a nice name, fitting in with the country’s Malay-Polynesian languages.

    Or Multatuli’s proposal for pre-independence Indonesia: Insulinde. I understand that the name “Maharlika” was laughed out of court – apparently it means ‘big organ”.

    My bad. Indonesia’s new capital in Borneo will be named Nusantara. Perhaps “The Republic of Rizal”. King Philip’s boys and girls can now be emancipated to Rizalians.

  65. Anonymous[308] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    There once lived an American seer/prophet named Edgar Cayce.

    In 1935 or thereabouts, he prophesied: “China will be the cradle of Christianity, as lived by Man. It seems very far off, but in the mind of God, the time is very near”.

    It sure sounded insane to say that in 1935.

    Make of that what you will.

  66. @showmethereal

    As to Vietnam. Why do people forget Vietnam was literally founded by a Chinese general and Vietnamese population has many of the same exact ethnic groups that exist in Southern China…???

    The Vietnamese language is basically a derivative of the Cantonese language. I am sure the West is familiar with Vietnamese surnames. Nyugen = Yuen in Cantonese. Truong = Cheong in Cantonese. Voung = Wang. Tran = Chan, Trinh = Zheng, so on and so forth.

    • Replies: @AmerimuttRetard
    , @Smith
  67. antibeast says:
    @Brian Damage

    Shenzhen is next to HK and after the establishment of the Shenzhen Special Economic Zone (SEZ) naturally initial investment came from nearby HK. Singapore had a huge hand in Shenzhen. It was Deng who brought a bunch of CPP officials in the 80s to Singapore to learn its system and also had Singapore to help kick start the Suzhou Industrial Park and Tianjin Ecocity.

    Singapore didn’t establish diplomatic relations with China until 1992 which resulted in the creation of Singapore-Suzhou Industrial Park thereafter. And yes, Chinese officials were sent to Singapore to study public administration there. But the Singaporeans never played any role in Shenzhen unlike what you asserted in your previous post. Rather than Singaporeans, HK and Taiwanese investors were the first to move their factories from Southeast Asia to Shenzhen early in the 1980s after Deng launched his four SEZs, the first one in Shenzhen while other three in Xiamen, Zhuhai and Shantou. HK businesses such as Li & Fung mostly invested in garments and toys while Taiwanese companies such as Foxconn invested in electronics manufacturing industries.

    Taiwan had more of an impact on its cousin across the straits. The Fujian province. Taiwan’s tech prowess had an impact on Shenzhen once it gained momentum.

    Xiamen was the only SEZ in Fujian Province while the other three were in Guangdong Province. But Taiwanese investors had to go through HK to do business in Xiamen where they were the biggest investors but they were also the biggest investors in Shenzhen after HK.

    • Thanks: Brian Damage
  68. Anonymous[308] • Disclaimer says:
    @Old Brown Fool

    LOL at what you just wrote.

    These are the groups that have Sinicized themselves, basically the ethnicities of East Asia:

    We begin with, of course, the Han. In addition, we find Mongolians, Manchurians, Tibetans, Asian Turkics (Uighurs), Koreans, Japanese and Vietnamese (who are geographically South East Asian).

    Also very strong (at least as strong as Indian, probably more so) Chinese culture to be found in Thailand and Myanmar. In fact, the ancestors of many Thais and Burmese migrated there from south-west China as recently as the 1300s AD.

    • Replies: @Old Brown Fool
  69. JR Foley says:
    @Anon

    Ireland was Ireland when England was a pup
    Ireland will be Ireland when England’s buggered up !!

    • Replies: @Hulkamania
  70. JR Foley says:
    @Anonymous

    Edgar Cayce most interesting reading –. However what I have trouble with is the Poles reversing—yet the true magnetic North and South are not at 90 degrees and have shifted. Was Cayce referring to these Poles or the guys next to Ukraine ? All kidding aside —were the magnetic Poles to flip –it would sure shake things up ——tectonic plates and all. Another point is COP27 in Cairo–they all fly there —eat meat and then no coin for ecology BUT all Flew there. The Airline industry has had a Free Ride with all this nonsense. Edgar Cayce and Mother Nature —most interesting.

  71. @Anon

    What an assclown. There is a huge obesity scare in all of Asia. You entire post read like a State Dept cope.

  72. @mulga mumblebrain

    I would like to add another Chinese similarity to Prussian militarism/expansion:

    9) Gunboat diplomacy/sabre rattling. Grinding up beautiful coral reefs, destroying wondrous ecosystems for all time, and dumping construction debris on top of them to build air strips and bases, then harassing fishing boats and coast guard vessels with destroyers is big bully behaviour. Ditto declaring “exclusive economic zone”. I understand Trump started a ‘Space Fleet’ because China has threatened to militarise the heavens with orbiting weapons of mass destruction.

    1) Okay, I didn’t know. The Dalai Lama and Richard Gere used to say Tibet wanted to be independent. As well, I understood the Uyghurs, the Manchurians and the Mongolians want to secede. Certainly Taiwan doesn’t want in and Hong Kong would leave in a New York minute. The only country that is willing to cede the South China Sea is The Phillipines. Take a look at a Chinese map; the border problems with Russia, Viet Nam, and India are far from settled.

    5) Aircraft carriers are NOT for shore defense; think blitzkrieg; think closing the Straights. Amphibious landing craft are for invading .

    7) China has said it wants to do ALL the manufacturing in the world. All the cell phones, all the shoes, all the cars, all the cups, all the saucers, all the vaccines, and all the face masks. Does not want “free trade”. China wants to sell finished products and buy raw materials. China wants to EXTRACT all the resources of the seas and the land like the aliens in ‘Independence Day’.

    8) China has an inferiority complex but it shouldn’t. Wake up and stop being neo imperialist; rejoin the community of nations.

    • Troll: antibeast
  73. @Brian Damage

    For two thousand years they have self-determined to be apart from China. They earned their rights and destiny. That much can’t be said for the (((west))) nowadays.

    • Replies: @Brian Damage
  74. @Anonymous

    Cheer to the dragon century! May the murdering angloid scum meet their punishment!

  75. Meanwhile, in Australia, our PM jets off to Cambodia to the sounds of a dutiful media chorus about how China’s aggression is destabilising the region (while out of the other side of their lying mouths they beat the drums of war to a refrain of bad man Putin and how it’s in our interests to follow the Americans into Ukraine with soldiers, guns and money).

    America clearly plans to sacrifice Australia in its last-gasp effort to prevent China becoming the biggest global economy, and we’re being paid too well to notice.

  76. antibeast says:
    @TheAntidoteToToxins

    China has an inferiority complex but it shouldn’t. Wake up and stop being neo imperialist; rejoin the community of nations.

    You sound like someone from India. That last sentence is a dead giveaway of your own inferiority complex which Indian elites try to compensate by being neo-imperialist.

    • Agree: mulga mumblebrain
    • Replies: @Deep Thought
  77. Intel hackers steady on station this evening on the MoA site. After several postings this evening I suddenly noticed on checking them, that they no longer existed. Erased. So I did two tests, explaining what I thought was going on, mentioning that “B”, the site owner lives in Germany and that it’s the wee hours in the morning over there, so he wouldn’t have been responsible.

    After both postings I quickly jumped back to previous page option and voila, in less than a minute those submissions had disappeared into cyberspace.

    Of course I’d been slaughtering intel hireee trolls for much of the day, calling them out and providing them with slight alterations of their screen names on occasion. Evidently, the installation to remove my postings had been hacked into the system, so when my screen i.d. and/or I.P. protocol showed up, the postings were automatically removed.

    Being a technophobe, of moderately considerable years, I have no idea as to how to address this intrusion into Moon. Perhaps another poster here on Unz would do me the kindness of posting this info there…providing you have also posted there from time to time. There appears to be some level of dual involvement with both of the two leading free-expression sites on the net.

  78. @AmerimuttRetard

    For two thousand years they have self-determined to be apart from China. They earned their rights and destiny. That much can’t be said for the (((west))) nowadays.

    Yes they did. You guys are so funny. It is the Chinese culture not the Chinese empire. Han China never really interested in conquering its neighbours other than the occasional border spats. Vietnam is as Chinese as China. Actually, after the cultural revolution when many of the Chinese culture were suppressed, Vietnam is one of the caretaker of traditional Chinese culture. Vietnam in Cantonese is pronounce as Yet Nam. In Mandarin Yue Nan.

    • Replies: @AmerimuttRetard
  79. @JR Foley

    Ireland will be Africa in 30-40 years at the rate it’s going. Britain will be, too, if that is consolation.

  80. Zane says:

    Whatever the question is, China is not the answer.

    • Replies: @mulga mumblebrain
  81. @Change that Matters

    Meanwhile, in Australia, our PM jets off to Cambodia to the sounds of a dutiful media chorus about how China’s aggression is destabilising the region

    Cambodia never had it so good after China started investing in the country. Living standards went up by a lot. There are still unexploded American bombs in Cambodia. The bombing campaign by the US was so devastating that it never recovered until the last 10 years.

  82. @antibeast

    You sound like someone from India.

    Not just from India, I have also encountered such house-niggers of East and Southeast Asian origins. Whenever they find Chinese poster who does NOT submit to the whites of the West, they immediately point their fingers at the Chinese and accuse him of having an “inferiority complex”:

    I have seen many examples of this displayed by some “North American” posters of South Asian, Southeast Asian and sometimes East Asian origins, who meekly accept a position of inferiority with respect to the whites, on the Economist forum.
    .
    Whenever they find others, like most Chinese, who refuse to do the same, they point their fingers at them and accuse them of having an “inferiority complex”. I didn’t know what to make of it at first but then realised that that might have to do with the fundamentalist/evangelical Christianity in North America. According to this fundamentalist ideology, a man who accepts an inferior position with respect to God is a “superior man”. A man who does not is inferior and must be harbouring an “inferiority complex”! Carrying it over to the human realm, a non-white who meekly accepts an inferior position with respect to the whites is therefore a “superior non-white”! A non-white who does NOT is inferior and must also be fostering an “inferiority complex”!!!
    .
    This is a view that I did not see in Britain in my decade long stay there– Not even with Anglican Christians.
    .
    It is a very, very funny kind of mentality– I have yet to work out the best way to ridicule it.

  83. @Zane

    China is the answer for China, and does NOT, unlike the racist terror state the USA, DEMAND that every country ape the Yankee dystopia, of which, I assume, you are a typical denizen.

  84. @Change that Matters

    China has been the biggest economy, in PPP terms, since 2014. Certainly it is by far the biggest in productive terms.

  85. @TheAntidoteToToxins

    More Big Lies. 9) Gunboat diplomacy/sabre rattling in ITS OWN territory, while surrounded by scores of bases belonging to the most violently aggressive power in history,, the USA, that has been preparing for war on China for decades. 1) Quoting seventy year CIA asset the Dalai and Richard Gere is cretinism, and the argument that Uighurs, Mongolians, ‘Manchrians’ want to secede is another FOUL lie, but one that shows you racists’ genocidal intent to destroy China and break it up. What EVIL scum you are!
    The rest is lying filth almost beyond comprehension. No wonder our species is destroying itself when it throws up vermin like you.

  86. @Brian Damage

    Words do not convince. Words make you look like bitches. Deeds speak. Especially murder, the act of perfect communication. Therefore there must be war.

    The only way to communicate with Whites is to kill them in armed conflicts. Instill in them a collective racial trauma, as they put it. I am embarrassed by fools like you who bother to talk to them. It betrays your naivete. There are only gods and niggers on this Earth. You can be either. But you can never be “human”.

  87. antibeast says:
    @Deep Thought

    Not just from India, I have also encountered such house-niggers of East and Southeast Asian origins. Whenever they find Chinese poster who does NOT submit to the whites of the West, they immediately point their fingers at the Chinese and accuse him of having an “inferiority complex”.

    I have not met any East Asian who behaved like ‘house-niggers’ while the only Southeast Asians who who did so were all Filipinos. Unlike Filipinos, however, Indians constantly measure India by looking at their neighbor and feel upset every time China achieves something that they could not do in India. A good example of this phenomenon is Indian calls to boycott Chinese smartphones which keep expanding their market share in India. The poster’s claim that “China has said it wants to do ALL the manufacturing in the world. All the cell phones, all the shoes, all the cars, all the cups, all the saucers, all the vaccines, and all the face masks” is obviously his way of coping with China’s manufacturing prowess which Modi wants to replicate in India.

  88. Smith says:
    @showmethereal

    Vietnam has history older than chinese colonization.

    The Nam Viet dynasty is not considered a Viet dynasty.

    Please don’t spread bullshit history.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  89. Smith says:
    @Brian Damage

    It uses many loan words and there was a time when Viets use Hán tự as official characters, but our common people do not speak it and the way some words are arranged is reverse of Chinese, like Minh Triều (Hán) / Triều Minh (Việt).

    • Replies: @littlereddot
  90. @Brian Damage

    Go tell that to the Viets and see if they dont punch you in the mouth. The Chinese themselves are smarter than that.

    Western “experts” are saaad.

  91. @Deep Thought

    They have ingested too much Negro/Saxon and amerimutt propaganda. “Huwhite Nationalism” is just a branch of Anglo-Zionist imperialism. Thankfully, they are just tragedies of the past and the Negro-Saxon and the entire (((AUKUS))) will drown in a brown tide!

    1945 payback!

  92. @Deep Thought

    Not just from India, I have also encountered such house-niggers of East and Southeast Asian origins. Whenever they find Chinese poster who does NOT submit to the whites of the West, they immediately point their fingers at the Chinese and accuse him of having an “inferiority complex”:

    It is like a dog looking down on a human for not obeying its master.

    • Agree: Deep Thought
  93. @Brian Damage

    The topic was S E Asia, so I mentioned that even when the S E Asia admired the Chinese empire, it did not adapt the script or culture.

    As for other things, yes, I am aware of quite a few of them.

    All I said was, the historic Chinese empires may not have been expansionist, but the present one could turn out to be. And I listed the possible reasons that limited their expansion in the past, and may not be applicable now.

    • Replies: @Brian Damage
    , @antibeast
  94. @Anonymous

    That actually adds to my argument. In the past, Chinese empires stopped expansion at some point, and now that is being celebrated as a good trait. All I am saying is, there were many limiting factors, not under the control of the then Chinese empires, that could have forced the Chinese not expand. And then they were happy to see those people sinicize themselves (adapting script, or pieces of culture); but now technology enables a much larger expansion, and so this time the Chinese empire may expand much beyond their traditional boundaries. It is too early to celebrate their peaceful disposition.

    • Replies: @Deep Thought
  95. @Poupon Marx

    Get your own sustenance and cover…and try an alarm clock set for an hour or 2

    Divided society that suffers, carries, affords this that or the other parasitic class, even a few at the same time, has always been corrupt, anti life, threat to human permanence more so at this current stage than ever previously. Minority elites have always been limitless capable of any absolute and extreme act in their own interest, seeking to maintain their permanence. No morality is absolute with them. All that is permanent with them is their own class position. All else is permeable, disposable. No horror untenable, uncontemplatable in the preservation of elitist interest

    It really does not matter what you drink, eat or smoke, where you choose to hide the options are on the table. result of all that has gone into their production. Humans are what we are, require some of , must choose and create some of many positive options to ensure our survival as we go. Elite dominant social classes are no longer valid, practical, useful, positive options if they ever were. Neither are gods in this that or the other heaven, and religions as we have know them

    There are no chosen people among the human group. We are all from the same source..no group/race better or superior to the other and nothing the same from period to period. But we know the story to a great extent already. We are not sure we are going to or can make it indefinitely no matter, and that if we continue with failing dying class/capitalist society we simply sign our own death warrant.

    But we must live and try, revolutionize the life, meet the real challenges and that we face currently: at this stage we must solve class/capitalism and all its attendant ills it walks with, has produced and work out responses in line with, positive responses to what we have come to know life is so far…or we are done, toast

    • Agree: mulga mumblebrain
    • Replies: @Poupon Marx
  96. @Old Brown Fool

    The only Lebensraum you can expand into nowadays are the white empires. And it is not just the Chinese who are carrying out the expansions. The Indians (dot type), Pakistanis, Africans, Hispanics, Arabs, etc are far, far more successful than the Chinese are and they are doing so largely peacefully– though not always legally!

  97. @Anon

    we find that each side wants to dominate their partners and each side wants to get the upper hand on the other. That is, the one with the muscle wants to be “The MAN”.

    Culturally speaking, the Chinese do not think this way. It is difficult for the Westerner to understand. But if you look historically for the last 1000 years, when China was BY FAR the largest and most prosperous country in the region, it did not invade or colonise. Its foreign policy was (at risk of oversimplifying), like this:
    1. I dazzle you with my size, prosperity, power and culture. The glory of China is apparent to everyone.
    2. If you recognise this then send your ambassadors and “tribute” to acknowledge this in my palace.
    3. In return, for the sake of my prestige, I will dazzle you even more with my largesse in return of gifts many times the value that you have given me. Even more, I will give you trading rights at my ports to import highly desirable Chinese goods, and you will make yourself rich.
    4. I don’t care for whatever you do in your own country. Do as you wish.
    5. If you do not recognise this, then it is your loss. Bye bye.

  98. @Old Brown Fool

    My friend, I have had the pleasure of reading many of your thoughtful and sensible posts, so I will reply in the spirit of constructive discussion.

    Often it is repeated that China in the past was not imperial invader, that is, it did not invade other countries to annex them to its empire;

    Yes, it is true the China went through a phase of territorial expansion, this is natural in all empires. But this expansionist phase ended 1000 years ago. If you examine its historical borders, it has stayed nearly the same for the last 1000 years.
    The only two exceptions to this is when China itself was conquered by the Mongols and later the Manchus in the Yuan and Ching dynasties respectively. Please have a look at historical maps freely available to verify this.

    There are a lot of flaws in these arguments. First, the capacity for projecting power over long distances, especially through overland routes, was highly limited in the past; journeys took longer time, making logistics difficult for sending conquering armies to the other end of the Eurasian continent. Even then Mongol could sweep from one end to the other

    Okinawa was composed of tiny islands off China. They were independent and traded extensively with China for hundreds of years, until the Japanese conquered them in 1800s.
    Other countries within easy reach: Korea, Thailand/Siam, Philippines.

    Then there is the example of the Chinese fleet under the command of Admiral Zheng He, who travelled as far as East Africa with 30,000 marines and sailors and 200 ships. The Chinese established trade and diplomatic links established, but not a single country conquered or colonised. Compare this with the genocidal exploits of Columbus and 3 little ships.

    Second, China invaded annexed all those lands it could hold on; it left only those lands which it could not hold by force; a good example is Vietnam. Vietnam was annexed to Chinese empire till it became impossible to hold on to it. Chinese became satisfied with tribute from only those countries which they realised could not be held for long by force. So, all the countries Chinese have conquered and held on to became China! All the countries they could not hold on to for long became tributaries. Had the ancient Chinese emperors been able to project power like a modern power, they would have probably conquered the whole South East Asia.

    Vietnam became independent from China about 1000 AD. See my comments above about how China ended its expansionist phase about that time.
    See my example of of Okinawa, Philippines, Thailand, Korea.
    Also Zheng He.

    Third, the Chinese cultural model did not cut much ice even with the Japanese, their next door neighbour.

    The Japanese use the Chinese script. They call it Kanji. They supplement the meanings in Kanji with their own phonetic alphabet in order to adjust it for their own language. Chinese is to the Japanese what Latin is to Europeans.

    The Japanese adopted Chinese culture and thought wholesale during the Tang dynasty.
    Till this day, if you want to see a Tang dynasty (circa 600-900AD) court orchestra, you cannot find it in China. You will see it in the Japan.

    Chinese became satisfied with tribute

    The term “tribute” used in conjunction with ancient Chinese foreign policy is terribly misunderstood.
    Unlike its use in other cultures, the Chinese were not concerned with material gifts, what they wanted was PRESTIGE. I will explain
    In return for offering “tribute” to the Chinese Emperor, and fanning his ego, the emperor for the sake of his prestige would bestow return gifts many times the value of the “tribute”. Think dazzling largesse. This became very profitable for the tributary kings, so much so that eventually the Chinese had to limit the presentation of “tribute” to once every two years.
    Please also verify if what I have written is true.

    The entire South East Asia admired the Chinese empire, and obeyed, but it did not become a cultural colony of China; instead, it opted to adapt Indian religion, scripts and a bit of culture.

    Southeast Asia had contact with India much earlier than China. By the time the Chinese came to trade, SE Asian kingdoms had gone from pagan to Buddhist, then to Hindu.

    However there was nothing for SE Asia to obey, because China gave them no orders. All it offered was highly profitable trade, and in order to do that, one had to kiss the ass of the Emperor. All voluntary and natural. We can compare it to how one needs to please our bosses if we want that nice fat bonus.

    But China did not invade countries that did not offer tribute…it didn’t want to….been there done that.

    All the expectations of China behaving the same way as in the past ignore the changes in technology and capacity. The present China may well turn out to be a conquering power. We need to wait for at least three or four rulers before drawing some reliable conclusions.

    Yes, that is a very prudent view. We may never know if China will become a bully after it becomes No.1 again.

    But I worry less about China than another young upstart empire. China has been there, done that. It is like an old man with nothing left to prove.

    The USA by comparison, is like a 17 year old, who discovered that he has a young adults powerful body, but lacks the maturity to use it, and has been bullying customers and making a nuisance of himself at the restaurant. Now the other adults in the room are cutting him down to size.

    • Agree: showmethereal
    • Replies: @A B Coreopsis
  99. @Anonymous

    He also said that “Russia would be the light of the world”.

    Even 10 years ago I would have scratched my head at this statement. But today, lo and behold!

    So, if he was right about Russia, maybe he ain’t so far off about China. Who knows?

  100. @Brian Damage

    What’s the likelihood that the US will force China’s hand and provoke it into invading Taiwan, as it has been able to do with Russia and Ukraine?

    • Replies: @Brian Damage
  101. @Old Brown Fool

    Third, the Chinese cultural model did not cut much ice even with the Japanese, their next door neighbour. The entire South East Asia admired the Chinese empire, and obeyed, but it did not become a cultural colony of China; instead, it opted to adapt Indian religion, scripts and a bit of culture. Chinese culture did not seep into the Mongols.

    Above is your post that I replied. You said the “Chinese cultural model did not cut much ice”. and I called out your BS. Stop word salading like those incompetent “academics” who knows nothing about a topic but cherry picking eras spanning thousands of years while restricting some to just a few years to prove a narrative.

    In truth, despite the last 2 hundred years of Western hegemony, it “did not cut much ice” with anyone despite the technological advance in propagating information and constant Anglo Saxon cultural propaganda through movies, music and other media. Most people in East Asia and Southeast Asia are still practicing Chinese cultural practices.

    • Replies: @antibeast
    , @Old Brown Fool
  102. @Obsequious

    What’s the likelihood that the US will force China’s hand and provoke it into invading Taiwan, as it has been able to do with Russia and Ukraine?

    Time is on China’s side. It may take humiliations to avoid actual invasion of Taiwan militarily.

  103. antibeast says:
    @Old Brown Fool

    The topic was S E Asia, so I mentioned that even when the S E Asia admired the Chinese empire, it did not adapt the script or culture.

    For its first 1,000 years before the Song Dynasty, the maritime Silk Road saw Indian traders, Hindu Brahmins and Buddhist monks traveling to and settling in SE Asia. During this time, SE Asia had become ‘indianized’ by successive waves of cultural exports undertaken by Indian rulers including Ashoka the Great during the Mauryan Empire. Buddhism thus spread to SE Asia which culminated in the founding of the Buddhist thalassocracy of the Srivijaya Empire ruling over much of maritime SE Asia. Hinduism also spread throughout SE Asia with Indians settling and intermarrying with native SE Asian elites such as those in the Khmer Empire whose first king was an Indian Brahmin named ‘Kaundinya’ who married a local Princess. Only during the Song Dynasty which promoted maritime trade in China’s coastal cities did Chinese traders began settling in SE Asia which were already ‘indianized’ in terms of religion, language scripts, arts and architecture or political ideologies. Prior to the Song Dynasty, Chinese rulers were mostly concerned with the overland Silk Road which could explain why China didn’t have much cultural impact on SE Asia as did India.

  104. antibeast says:
    @Brian Damage

    In truth, despite the last 2 hundred years of Western hegemony, it “did not cut much ice” with anyone despite the technological advance in propagating information and constant Anglo Saxon cultural propaganda through movies, music and other media. Most people in East Asia and Southeast Asia are still practicing Chinese cultural practices.

    Old Brown Fool is begging the question here: did China really influence the cultures of Northeast Asia as India did in Southeast Asia? Of course, China did influence the cultures of Japan, Korea, Vietnam, Mongolia and Ryukyu Kingdom which are derived from the Classical Chinese Culture of the Han-Tang-Song Dynasties. Probably more so than Indian influences on the cultures of SE Asia due to the rise of Islam and the decline of Hinduism over the last 700 years. During the same period, Indian influence declined as India came to be colonized by Muslim invaders from Persia and Central Asia as well as the British and Portuguese colonizers from Europe while Chinese influence increased due to the influx of Chinese immigrants to SE Asia such as Thaksin the Great in Thailand and Lee Kuan Yew in Singapore. Buddhism still exist in China but hardly exists in India today. Buddhism originated in India but its two branches — Mahayana and Vajrayana — are centered in China today based on the Chinese and Tibetan canons respectively. Chinese immigrants to Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia and the Philippines were instrumental in reviving the Mahayana Buddhism of the ancient Srivijaya Empire whose greatest work of art and architecture is the Borobudur Temple in Java, Indonesia visited by Chinese Buddhists to this day.

    • Agree: A B Coreopsis
    • Replies: @Brian Damage
  105. @Anonymous

    Schopenhauer’s position — from 200 years ago — was that of an atheist who did not believe in an omnipotent deity in any form. Yet he was very clear that the great religions were Buddhism in the east and Christianity in the west.

    As for the Jews, he described them as “the slime of the earth and the masters of lying”.

    • Replies: @Poupon Marx
  106. @Ben Sampson

    This screed reads like a plagiarized copy from Robespierre’s secretary during the French Revolution. How old are you? How do you feel about “classism”, “hierachalsim”, Isn’tism, Schismism, toxic maleism, Freudism, Fuckyousim?

    • Replies: @mulga mumblebrain
  107. @littlereddot

    You’ve replied respectfully to someone old, brown and a fool.

    In her waning years, she should learn that the best unbiased predictor (statistics) of the next element in the data set is the last element in the data set.

    So while anything is possible, the outcomes are not equally likely.

  108. @antibeast

    Old Brown Fool is begging the question here: did China really influence the cultures of Northeast Asia as India did in Southeast Asia?

    I did CLEARLY explained it to her. I further added that Southeast Asia in fact are more Chinese influenced despite Hindu influences earlier on and Western hegemony for 200 years “did not cut much ice” in the region. Nothing clearer than that.

    Great stuff about Taksin the Great. Thai culture today are very Teochew. Even the food is a more Teochew than traditional Thai. Teochew people are very economically dominant in Guangzhou and HK too.

    • Replies: @antibeast
  109. @Brian Damage

    Yes – though I see antibeast noted correctly that while Singapore after Deng met Lee Kwan Yew served as the model for Shenzen opening up – Singapore didn’t invest actually… they later invested in Suzhou). But things change fast… Shenzen is closing on 18 mill now – lol.

    But yeah back to the Bamboo network… I’m shocked westerners didn’t realize how wealthy they were. Didn’t they watch James Bond? LOL. In “Man with the Golden Gun” the Hong Kongers got James a link to the wealthy business class in Thailand – who were ethnic Chinese – related to those Hong Kongers. LOL. They don’t believe the correct things in western films. That was actually accurate – LOL

    • Replies: @Brian Damage
  110. @showmethereal

    But yeah back to the Bamboo network… I’m shocked westerners didn’t realize how wealthy they were. Didn’t they watch James Bond? LOL. In “Man with the Golden Gun” the Hong Kongers got James a link to the wealthy business class in Thailand – who were ethnic Chinese – related to those Hong Kongers. LOL. They don’t believe the correct things in western films. That was actually accurate – LOL

    Because Westerners always believed in their own superiority therefore inferior Easterners can’t never be better than them. If any Chinese with wealth shows it off, it will be immediately brushed off as money laundering, triad, corruption, illegal activities or, this is recent, real estate speculation causing home ownership crisis in the West. No different from the 1866 cartoon published in the Sydney based The Bulletin Magazine on August 21, 1886, “The Mongolian Octopus – His Grip on Australia”

  111. antibeast says:
    @Brian Damage

    Speaking of Western influences, I remember vividly Singapore’s attempt to promote Mandarin amongst the Chinese-Singaporeans who are still predominantly Buddhist/Confucianist despite 146 years of Western colonialism plus another 57 years of Western hegemony. So Chinese influences are alive and well in Southeast Asia, not just from Chinese immigrants but also from China’s diplomatic and economic relations over the past 700 years. In addition to Zheng He’s voyages, Princess Hang Li Po was sent to marry the Sultan of Malacca during the Ming Dynasty while the Sultan Paduka Pahala of Sulu was buried in China after passing away during his visit. There were also the Song loyalists who fled to Vietnam and helped fight off the Mongol invasions. With India turning into a colonized satrapy of a series of Islamic Empires, one after another for five centuries, China emerged as the dominant power in SE Asia after the fall of the Srivijaya Empire. This happened despite the Yuan and Qing Dynasties having alien rulers because the Chinese State had remained intact.

    Today, Buddhism is alive and well in SE Asia but Hinduism barely exists except for the Balinese and Chams. That means Chinese Buddhists have more in common with SE Asian Buddhists than do Indian Hindus. During WWII, India had fallen to such a diminished state that Indian sepoys were busy fighting and dying as cannon fodder for the British Empire in SE Asia while the Chinese Nationalists were busy fighting the Japanese Imperialists who were dying in Burma. During the Cold War, Chinese Communists had helped their SE Asian counterparts to fight the Western Imperialists, whether in Indochina, Malaya or Indonesia. Heck even the pro-Western Philippines to this day faces a five-decade old Communist insurgency founded by Filipino Maoists. Not to mention that its National Hero as well as its first President who led the Philippine Revolution against Spain are Filipinos of Chinese descent.

    Other than tourist traps like the Angkor Wat in Cambodia or exotic destinations like Bali, Indian influences in SE Asia can best be described as cultural artifacts of a bygone era, serving as open-air museums for tourism purposes. By contrast, China is driving its integration with ASEAN through RCEP, BRI, AIIB, etc. with India virtually absent as a participant and content to be treated by the West as a sepoy member of the QUAD. That is how irrelevant India has become in its inability to influence SE Asian affairs.

    • Thanks: littlereddot
    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  112. @Brian Damage

    That ‘cartoon’ is a depiction of the inner pathopsychological worldview of most of the Austfailian political, business and MSM Mafias. The order to prepare for war on China that came from the USA c.2014 must have been a tremendous relief for the rulers here, who had to spend years pretending to like the ‘Mongolians’ in return for their billions in trade, tourism, student enrollments etc. Much better to return to that good old ‘Yellow Peril’, ‘Clash of Civilizations’ mindset that has served the White Bosses so well over the years. The antipathy is portrayed as ideological, they being ‘autocrats’, we ‘ democrats’, but, in reality, it is simply race hatred.

  113. @Poupon Marx

    The reactionary Right’s usual allergic reaction to a few truths. Take a Bex, or twenty, and have a good lie down.

    • Replies: @Ben Sampson
  114. @Smith

    Oh – you are back…. But Come on… Stop it. The Vietnamese language itself used Chinese characters until the French invasion. Stop it…

    Now yes indeed it is true that prehistoric Vietnam had a history. It is also true there were scattered people’s living in different kingdoms. No dispute. But what we now call Vietnam was undoubtedly founded by a Chinese general and for that reason was later incorporated into China. When the Europeans arrived they called the region Indo China because they couldn’t distinguish you all from the Southern Chinese in Yunnan and Guangxi and Southern Guangdong. That’s not BS history. It’s reality. There is no question Vietnam is their own country now. But the idea of “one thousand years of colonization” is pretty silly. How can one be colonized for a thousand years???? After one thousand years are people still different???? Vietnam broke off.. That’s ancient history.. But let’s not pretend what we know of today as Vietnam was firmly based on it’s own variation of Chinese culture until the French invaded. I mean that’s true Champa had it’s own development – but let’s not forget even that which we would call Southern Vietnam – the Champa kingdom there broke off from China. So what is false?????

    • Replies: @antibeast
    , @Smith
  115. Always thought Vietnamese with the name of Smith were delusional — thanks for the confirmation.

    • Replies: @Smith
  116. @A B Coreopsis

    LOL, thanks.

    Well, I sense that she/he has a good heart, and that all important virtue…humility.

    This makes the debate more like an entertainment that we can enjoy.

  117. @Smith

    As much as it pains me, I concur with you. Vietnamese belongs in a different language family to Chinese.

    Chinese is Sino-Tibetan-Burmic

    Vietnamese is Austroasiatic

    • Replies: @Brian Damage
  118. @Brian Damage

    Well, to the best of my knowledge, Japan retained its stratified society and caste system, unlike China; it kept its ruling dynasty as sacrosanct, unlike the Chinese mandate of heaven concept. It retained its own religion that is much at cross purpose with Confucianism. Japan adapted the scripts and tea and quite many other things from China but kept its culture intact, just like China is adapting Western science, technology, McDonalds, KFC, wedding dress, etc but keeps its culture intact. And yes, 200 years of Western attacks have not alienated many Chinese from their cultural beliefs (in India the West has successfully alienated many Indians from many core Indian beliefs; it is another matter whether those beliefs are compatible with the times!). If I have to quote a foreign influence that completely changed a culture, then I would quote Japan after the WWII.

  119. @A B Coreopsis

    Thank you very much for the polite but point to point reply. I admit there have been some, no, many, flaws in my examples, but my core argument is, it is too early to expect the non-expansionist tendencies of the past Chinese empires from the present one, because the historical Chinese empires could not expand further due to many factors beyond their control, and, the present Chinese empire, and I am using that term for want of any better terms, does not have many of those historical constraints.

    As for the issue pointed out by another member here, where will China expand into, all lands have been already taken; well, White nations developed some cold feet in the 20th Century about conquering an already populated territory and slowly replacing the population. Chinese may not have the same qualms. Already there are more Chinese in Africa than there were British in India ever. Chinatowns are mushrooming, if I believe the African news, and one does not see any African face there. If we remember the East Asian / South East Asian ideas of sovereignty, it is not over the land, it is over the people. It is possible for two different people living side by side on the same town, but obeying their respective leaders. It was called Mandala concept. Basically, Chinese may live in African towns, obeying Chinese ideas. They can evolve a modus vivendi with the local population, which in any case going to only thin out and disappear. The ability of the African governments to force the Chinese to obey their civil law will decrease; Chinese may gain something like the extraterritoriality that Europeans enjoyed in China in the 19th Century.

    As for the question, “Why should China expand into other countries when it has so much of thinly populated lands within itself?” the answer is, “Mineral wealth and fertile lands”.

    In the final count, it is a game of numbers; and Chinese have more than enough numbers. The Europeans who spread out and multiplied speak half a dozen languages, but Chinese speak fewer. We may yet see Chinese cities in South America too.

    • Replies: @Brian Damage
    , @d dan
  120. @A B Coreopsis

    So while anything is possible, the outcomes are not equally likely.

    Exactly. We cannot expect the non-expansionist policies of the past Chinese empires from the present one. Technology has changed. And now, to conquer a country, one need not set out expeditions with army, as the South American countries are showing the USA.

  121. @littlereddot

    As much as it pains me, I concur with you. Vietnamese belongs in a different language family to Chinese.

    Chinese is Sino-Tibetan-Burmic

    Vietnamese is Austroasiatic

    In a pure sense it is. Very close to Khmer (Cambodia). Just because now the border is drawn in such a way doesn’t mean that people from the other side of the border can explain away the centuries of influences and migration. You can sort of get a sense of things by visiting both places. Khmer still uses a variation of the Sanskrit scripts while Vietnam used Chinese characters. Cambodians don’t really observe Chinese practices while Vietnamese, in my view, are one of the few caretakers of traditional Chinese cultural practices that have since eroded in post cultural-revolution China. Khmer has “Thai style” architecture while Vietnam has Chinese type architecture.

    We have to go back to perhaps 2200 years to justify that Vietnam is different from Southern China. Even Southern China today is very different from the Southern China a thousand years ago. Southern China has always been the place to seek refuge during times of war and we all know how many dynasty changes happened throughout the history of China.

    Vietnamese have more of a mixture of Tai people/Chinese proper than Austro-Asiatics/Tai while Khmer is the other way around. Language wise, the foundation is still Austroasiatic.

    • Replies: @littlereddot
  122. As for the question, “Why should China expand into other countries when it has so much of thinly populated lands within itself?” the answer is, “Mineral wealth and fertile lands”.

    Sounds like the Chinese should expand into Australiar, Can-anda, etc. These lands are big, resource-rich and are occupied by people who do NOT truly own the lands. After expanding into these territories, the Chinese could then put the true NATIVES back in positions of importance!!!

  123. @Old Brown Fool

    “As for the question, “Why should China expand into other countries when it has so much of thinly populated lands within itself?” the answer is, “Mineral wealth and fertile lands”.

    China is ranked number 4 in arable land by acres.. Considering the size of the population, you can argue that it is still not sustainable. Fair enough.

    Below is a list I posted a week ago.

    Ranked 14th in oil reserves. US 11th.
    1st in wheat production, the US 4th
    1st in rice production by a large margin. US 11th
    2nd in corn production. US 1st. Both a quite close in volume.
    1st in steel production. About 60% of the world’s production.
    4th coal reserves. US 1st.
    6th in natural gas reserves. US 4th.
    1st in rare earth reserves. 60% of wth in iron ore reserves. US 8th.
    Both US and China are not in the top ten of copper reserves. Chille, Russia and Peru , all Chinese allies have 80% of the world’s reserves.
    9th in uranium reserves. US 16th.
    4th in lithium reserves. US 5th.
    6th in gold reserves. US 1st.
    1st in agricultural production. US 2nd.
    1st in pork production. A large margin over US at 2nd.
    3rd in poultry production, US 1st
    4th in beef production. US 1st
    1st in fishery. US 5th
    1st in fruit production. US 6th.

    And China is aware that these reserves are depletable if used so it imports resources to make products for exports. UK is just years of deleting most of its resources if it keeping using its own resources to sustain its economy.

    Not to mention that China is in the forefront of Agritech. Recent breakthroughs included salt water rice farming.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  124. @Brian Damage

    Yes, what you say is true. I would say it is a similar situation with Korea. Although Korean is also a different language family, it has been very highly sinified.

    These are all sensitive topics. It would be hard for peoples to admit the full extent they have been influenced without getting their self identity bruised a little. It is only natural.

    • Agree: Brian Damage
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @showmethereal
  125. @mulga mumblebrain

    Oh boy! Very funny early this Sunday morning. hahahahaha

    I thought poupon Marx was mustard but had no interest since I gave gave up on dogs and burghers and so on a long time now

    Youtube can be helpful here – I hope it is…took a minit to find and post this up to do a better job trying to a better job with my outlook, approach, what I take to be the human point and purpose.

    Its all pointless to me outside this approach and parameters, wide and open, limitless….

    • Replies: @Poupon Marx
  126. @antibeast

    Indians have soft power in SE Asia: Bollywood.

  127. @Brian Damage

    That octopus could well represent the grip on the world by another ethnic group, especially the opium trade of the time. No wonder they call the Chinese the Jews of Asia. But were there already so many Chinese in Australia to provoke such feelings?

    • Replies: @Brian Damage
  128. antibeast says:
    @showmethereal

    I mean that’s true Champa had it’s own development – but let’s not forget even that which we would call Southern Vietnam – the Champa kingdom there broke off from China.

    Champa became an ‘Indianized’ Hindu Kingdom based in Central and South Vietnam until its conquest by the Dai Viets during the Nguyen Dynasty. This historical fact has been deliberately obscured by Vietnamese nationalists who want to erase the cultural identity and political history of the Chams, some of whom still exists as an ethnic minority in Vietnam and Cambodia. Unlike the Kinh of Dai Viet whose ethnographic origins lie in the indigenous Austroasiatic tribes in Southern China and North Vietnam, the Chams of Champa are Austronesian migrants whose ethnographic origins lie in maritime Southeast Asia. Those Austroasiatic tribes then migrated Southwards to mainland Southeast Asia forming the Viet peoples in the Red River Delta in North Vietnam while the Austronesian migrants from maritime Southeast Asia settled in the coastal regions of Central and Southern Vietnam forming the Cham peoples of the Champa Kingdom. After the founding of China by Qin Shi Huang, a Chinese general from the Qin Army then established his own Kingdom called ‘Nam Viet’ in Southern China and Northern Vietnam which was later annexed by the Han Dynasty. That’s how the Viets became ‘Sinicized’ during the 1,000 year history of Nam Viet as part of China. After becoming independent of China, the Dai Viets would later invade and conquer Champa, uniting the North, Central and South in what they would later call ‘Viet Nam’.

  129. Smith says:
    @showmethereal

    No, that’s BS history.

    Before any chinese general comes, there was already various Viet tribal kingdom (Văn Lang/Âu Lạc). The chinese were seen as colonizer and imperialist, not any founder.

    Champa also has nothing to do with China, and it’s the middle of Vietnam, not southern Vietnam. It attacked Vietnam and tried to ally with China to maintain its position, but it wasn’t meant to be, and Vietnam incorporates Champa into our dynasty.

    I suggest you read more history books instead of spreading bullshit history.

    And I’m always here to point out the bullshit from the chinese hasbara, being a history/language buff myself.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  130. Smith says:
    @A B Coreopsis

    To be fair, lot of people thoughts the viets are delusional, until their empires ended, see multiple chinese-turkic dynasties (Han, Tang, Song, Yuan, Ming, Qing), the french, the japanese, the american, the Khmer Rouge and the chinese under Deng.

    We don’t do war willy nilly, but if pushes come to shoves, we ain’t afraid of great powers.

  131. @Ben Sampson

    Who do you buy your LSD from?

    • Replies: @Ben Sampson
  132. Anonymous[225] • Disclaimer says:
    @Brian Damage

    Nice rundown of China’s raw material and agricultural resources.

    It must be noted that much of China is still not really explored in terms of minerals, metals, and fuels.

    The reason why China wasn’t mapped out geologically is that China was simply not industrialized, really until the Reform and Opening Up years. China’s industrial revolution began in 1982, but manufacturing take off didn’t begin until just 20 years ago.

    For example, China is not 4th in Coal reserves, it’s actually at least at 2nd place. They found more coal in China just in the last 2-3 years, in economically recoverable form.

    Same with gold, iron ore, thorium, uranium, even natural gas and oil. Chinese geological exploration is having a lot of success lately.

    I think we’ll find that China actually has colossal reserves of raw materials, energy, water and food-growing capacity.

    • Agree: showmethereal
    • Replies: @antibeast
    , @showmethereal
  133. Anonymous[225] • Disclaimer says:
    @littlereddot

    These are all sensitive topics. It would be hard for peoples to admit the full extent they have been influenced without getting their self identity bruised a little. It is only natural.

    One thing I find admirable with China is that the cultural confidence is so solid and utterly unshakeable. This kind of inner core identity is what allows China to learn powerful concepts from all over the world, and then implement them in China.

    Basically, the real meaning of “humility”. Humility doesn’t mean kissing up to foreigners; it means admitting if and when an outside idea is better, then making that idea fully your own. Not many cultures can do this. Certainly, the West can’t.

    China can learn from the world, and blend its own ideas to create a stunningly effective national culture. But the world cannot learn from China, because of pride, racial animosity, and plain inability to change.

    Who is better off, who will advance faster? The answer is obvious.

  134. @Smith

    Oh I understand about Champa… What is BS is you pretending Vietnam has a continuous culture which predates it’s actual founding by a Chinese general. It doesn’t. Stop it. You get what “continuous” means – right?

    • Replies: @Smith
  135. @antibeast

    Yes agreed. The way I wrote it came out a little jumbled… But yes the Viet nationalists like “Smith” indeed obscure their history.

  136. @littlereddot

    Yes the young people in South Korea are highly sensitive and don’t like China because things are pointed out about South Korea that were adapted from China. They are highly propagandized by the west. It would almost be like Europeans denying the influence of the Romans on Europe.

  137. antibeast says:
    @Anonymous

    Same with gold, iron ore, thorium, uranium, even natural gas and oil. Chinese geological exploration is having a lot of success lately.

    Yup, you’re right. In the oil and gas fields, China’s offshore exploration has mostly been in shallow waters of less than 300m in water depth due to its lack of deepwater technology until recently. But 70% of its offshore oil and gas reserves can be found in the deepwaters of the South China Sea which could potentially rival the Gulf of Mexico as one of the world’s biggest offshore deepwater oil and gas reserves. China began operating its first self-developed deepwater oil rig in the South China Sea only in 2012. That’s only ten years for China compared to SE Asian countries which have been exploiting their offshore deepwater oil and gas reserves for several decades already. Here’s the news article:

    http://www.china.org.cn/business/2012-05/09/content_25339532.htm

    Same case in Xinjiang where China’s deep drilling has become possible only in recent years. What this all means is that China has barely started exploiting its oil and gas reserves with more to be discovered in the future, opting to import its oil and gas needs from foreign countries instead of tapping its own reserves.

  138. d dan says:
    @Old Brown Fool

    “my core argument”

    Which is pure BS. Your “argument” that Chinese didn’t possess the tech to expand has been proven wrong again and again. Mongol was able to conquer so many countries because of Hans’ tech and 100,000 Han engineers they employed. Ming possessed much more advanced ship and navigation capability compare with the West and yet didn’t attempt to colonize any. And what makes you think that 10k or 20k Chinese soldiers (not to mention with many more local Chinese residents and wealthy traders’ assistance) couldn’t “hold on” to Philippines, Malaysia, Kalimantan or some tiny kingdoms in Asia or Africa when a few hundreds Europeans were able to do? Is this some types of superiority complex or what?

    Chinese non-expansionary tendency is not just recorded in history, but part of the culture, philosophy, and behaviors. China built the Great Wall for pure defensive purpose. Many Chinese empires bent backward to avoid wars by bribing the enemy, with gold, silver, silk, princess/women, or even killing their own general. The amazing thing was that some times they did that even after they won the wars – it tells the extend Chinese were willing to have peace. Ancient Chinese philosophers counselled that 好战必亡 (those who prone to war will destroy himself), and war should be the last resort. Confucius advocated harmony and opposed aggression. Lao Tzu’s 无为 (do nothing or be natural) was diagonal to expansionary. Even the brilliant general and most famous strategist Sun Tzu wrote 上兵伐谋,其次伐交,其次伐兵,其下攻城 (my translation: the best way is to use planning, the next is to use diplomacy, the next is to use military, and the last to use aggression). And in social interaction, most East Asians try to be non-confrontational and avoid conflict. Look how China waited 150 years to peacefully take back Hong Kong, and still patiently waiting and hoping to unify with Taiwan peacefully. And so on and so forth.

    “too early to expect”

    This is a hilarious way to cope with China’s rise. The story has been told. China already risen, peacefully. It has done that without colonializing, enslaving, genocide, aggressive wars against others, unless all other great powers in the human history.

    Furthermore, there is also no rule to say that a country must be no 1 before it can expand. History and current events show there are plenty of empires and countries that were no 2, no 3 or some 3rd or 4th rate powers that expand. But China never did nor does that.

    Projecting into the future, most Chinese people are confident they will continue, and want to grow, peacefully. No Chinese are seriously thinking of expanding their territory as a mean to fuel their future growth. There is simply no need, no plan, no viable way and no motivation for that. The idea of China’s expansionism is all in the Westerners’ sick minds.

    Sorry, I don’t agree with other commenters about your “humility”. Humility goes beyond superficial courtesy in words, but more as an attitude to self-reflect and learn from others who have demonstrated to be more knowledgeable than you.

    “Chinese may live in African towns, obeying Chinese ideas….Chinese may gain something like the extraterritoriality…”

    Chinese may, Chinese will… blah, blah, blah. Where are these little inconvenient things call evidence? Proof?

    I read several silly people like you in Unz the last few weeks. One claims China’s aggression will be inevitable because all government is corrupted and it is due to “human proclivity” (actually, he was projecting his “westerners’ proclivity”). Another tries to compare PRC territory with Xia over 3000 years ago to prove that China was expansionist, while ignoring all the historical context and “tiny” events in the intervening period. And then I see you distorting historical interpretation or concocting new rules specifically for Chinese (“a game of numbers”). The hypocrisy here is simply mind boggling. The West claims rule of laws when their own people are assumed to be innocent unless proven guilty. Well, after all western powers have been proven guilty, they change the standard on China: it is assumed to be guilty unless proven innocent. But damn, China has demonstrated that it is innocent without aggression too. So, now yet again, the standard change: it is assume that China *will/may* BECOME guilty unless proven otherwise. Luckily, China doesn’t have to prove anything to anyone, especially the Westerners. It is good that your world order is self-destructing, your voices are less important each day, and your views are being marginalized. Whether it is done by Jews or not, I don’t care, but wish whoever doing it best of luck.

    • Agree: Brian Damage
    • Thanks: antibeast
  139. @Anonymous

    Basically, the real meaning of “humility”. Humility doesn’t mean kissing up to foreigners; it means admitting if and when an outside idea is better, then making that idea fully your own. Not many cultures can do this. Certainly, the West can’t.

    The West did until about 130 years ago. Late 1800s. Anything from China before then were highly sought after and only the rich can afford.

    Another nugget. It is easy to tell the timeline of tea by the name adopted by each culture. Tea in Fujian is Teh. The best tea came from the Fujian area and the Brits started to import directly from them. That’s why in English, Teh is Tea. India, Chai. In Cantonese and Mandarin, Tea is Char. You can tell that the British started to import through its Hong Kong port later on. Obviously, Indians and Ceylonese started to cultivate their own tea under the British.

    • Agree: littlereddot
    • Replies: @showmethereal
  140. @Commentator Mike

    That octopus could well represent the grip on the world by another ethnic group, especially the opium trade of the time. No wonder they call the Chinese the Jews of Asia. But were there already so many Chinese in Australia to provoke such feelings?

    Because the Chinese are sub-human in their eyes therefore should not be able to do better than them. If they do, it is because of cheating, triad, bribery and other illegal activities. Any tech advances through billions of dollars of R&D are just copying Western tech.

  141. @Anonymous

    This kind of inner core identity is what allows China to learn powerful concepts from all over the world,

    One thing I noticed is the identity crisis of Koreans and the Vietnamese. Japan, not so much. Japanese are practical people with their own destiny and great accomplishments. Koreans are so adamant to shed their history that it is making them into Western dogs. What’s up with the Christianity stuff? I love Jesus and the New Testament and all, albeit post Catholicism, which provided a solid foundation and value but worshiping to a picture of an European rendition of a White “deity”? That’s some F up identity crisis.

    Some delusional Vietnamese have serious identity issues. I said “some”, not all. Being on the line between “Fancy Asians” and “Jungle Asians” made things very difficult for them. I would tell them to relax. They are as Han as any Southern Chinese. Just be yourself. Go with the flow. Things are looking up for Vietnam. It will be the most successful country in Southeast Asia in a decade or so.

  142. Smith says:
    @showmethereal

    As said, you need a healthy dose of history book and less internet.

  143. @Poupon Marx

    I am like that naturally man! freely. You on the other hand…I don’t know?
    How hard is it for you to get to Ukraine? Its clear they need the fodder!

  144. Smith says:
    @Brian Damage

    It’s more accurate to say that the “southern chinese” are Yue/Việt, and not Hán. Hán itself is a civic identity, and not an ethnic one, due to the spread of the Han dynasty by Liu Bang.

    Anyway, we viets do feel kinship with the Cantonese, but not with the northern chinese, who we identify as mongols and koreans.

  145. @Anonymous

    A telling comment. I remember a WSJ article from a long time ago — at least 15 years. It quoted a US corporate exec who had worked in both Japan and China — he said that dealing with the Chinese and Japanese businessmen was completely different despite some nominal similarities.

    Specifically, he said you could tell the Chinese confidence pointed to their belief that China would once again regain its position as the center of world economic power. In contrast, he said that even at the height of their powers in the 1980s the Japanese were very insecure…something to the effect that they wore their imperial robes “uncomfortably”.

  146. @d dan

    OBR’s brain is starting to seize up — ignore her. Fortunately her influence beyond this website is likely nil. The less said about the mental midget Smith the better.

  147. antibeast says:
    @Brian Damage

    That’s true only for Seoul but not for the rest of Korea which by the way also includes the North. Same case in Vietnam where you would see people from Ho Chi-Minh City (formerly Saigon) including the Việt Hoa who are the most pro-American. But these people are seen as traitors by the North Vietnamese from Hanoi, who tend to be the most anti-American. So it’s not really an identity crisis per se but more of a comprador mentality, with Koreans in Seoul and Vietnamese in the former Saigon kissing the asses of their White Masters in order to curry favors with the USA. Same can be said of the HK rioters, as with the trendy pastime of rich Chinese sending their kids to English-language schools. But that’s only a passing fad which will fade away in due time.

  148. @Anonymous

    That is one of the reason the US and UK have always wanted to break off both Xinjiang and Tibet from China. There are huge deposits of various commodities in both. China though has basically declared Tibet off limits ecologically. So tourism – agriculture- forest rangers will be the main employment there. Not industry. Xinjiang on the other hand is beginning to be greatly exploited – which is why the U.S. is concocting nonsense to stifle the industry there. Except the US will pay more for solar panels and cotton and other things by trying to cut Xinjiang out. Meanwhile there is no loss of employment there since Xinjiang products have the non west and of course the largest market in the world – it’s domestic market. In fact Nike and Adidas have now fall behind one sportswear company in China and being closed in by another. Why? Young people said they will buy domestic products if those companies refuse to use Xinjiang cotton. Local companies like Li and Anta have begun buying more from Xinjiang to support them. Another case of US led western folly that backfired on their own companies

  149. @Brian Damage

    Tea was on of the main reasons the opium wars ended up happening. The Brits used industrial espionage to steal the plant and the whole cultivation process – then using their Asian colonies to plant. Tea- like paper before it – was a state secret in China. The Brits thought better to steal. How noble of them (sarcastic eye roll). So yeah the supposed noble Brits took stolen tea and drank it back in Britain from their “fine China” – while pretending to be righteous. The more things change the more they stay the same

  150. @Brian Damage

    Agreed. Though western Christianity is that… western. Biblical Christianity is a Middle East – aka – west Asian religion. But I sure hope now that after this last tragedy of the stampede – South Koreans will stop following the stupid Halloween garbage.

  151. @showmethereal

    I wonder if they were playing that techno song “Dance with the Devil” as they were trampled to death in Seoul. They wanted to play with Satan so Satan came to play with them. What did they expect? And the government declared days of mourning and condemned the police instead of banning these devil worshipers and banning all this nonsense. It’s a pity they drag so many young people and children into this, but Satan must be licking his lips torturing all these fresh souls in Hell.

    • Agree: showmethereal
    • Replies: @showmethereal
  152. @antibeast

    Champa became an ‘Indianized’ Hindu Kingdom based in Central and South Vietnam until its conquest by the Dai Viets during the Nguyen Dynasty.

    A lot of them moved to Aceh.

  153. @Smith

    Anyway, we viets do feel kinship with the Cantonese, but not with the northern chinese, who we identify as mongols and koreans.

    Fair enough. Northern Chinese tend to be more rigid and administrative. Look at it like the Northern Chinese as British/Germans and the south as French/Italians. At the end of the day, all are cousins. I feel there are more creativity from the south while the north provided stability with good administration and maintaining large scale industries.

    Shanghai, in the middle, is a good mix of both.

    • Replies: @Smith
  154. @Commentator Mike

    So sad. But yes what you described indeed conveys the satanic spirit behind it all

  155. @showmethereal

    Agreed. Though western Christianity is that… western. Biblical Christianity is a Middle East – aka – west Asian religion. But I sure hope now that after this last tragedy of the stampede – South Koreans will stop following the stupid Halloween garbage.

    Christianity is an Abrahamic religion. Like Judaism and Islam. They are all the same. The thing is, Western Christianity today is different, benevolent, “enlightened” because they can afford to. Both Judaism and Islam are always under siege. Look at Christianity during those time when it was under siege. Its behaviour was similar to Islam. Christians won their jihad (crusade) 150 years ago coinciding with the Industrial Revolution.

    • Thanks: littlereddot
    • Replies: @showmethereal
  156. @Brian Damage

    Not disputing your history but practice is different. Most non political Jews and Muslims admit their practices are more similar to each other than western Christians (or even Ashkenazi Jews for that matter). Remember also there were many forms of Christianity that were not western at all. Christians sprang up wherever there was a Jewish community – whether that was in Persia or Syria or East Africa. Military conquests just drowned them out. Western Christianity is build on a Greco Roman foundation- mixed with the Abrahamic (a middle eastern man) really.

    • Replies: @Brian Damage
  157. @showmethereal

    Jews and Muslims admit their practices are more similar to each other than western Christians (or even Ashkenazi Jews for that matter).

    My post addressed how Christianity evolved. Ashkenazi Judaism is not really Judaism. It was the Khazars in central Europe who adopted Judaism in the face of growing popularity/pressure of Christianity and Islam. Khazars were originally Turkic. In a sense, the anti-semitism in this site, in my humble opinion is misguided. Real Jews had not say. The affluent Ashkenazi “Jews” moving in from Europe after WW2 had all the say and dictated all things Jews. And they are not even Semite.

    • Agree: Ben Sampson
  158. @Brian Damage

    They are as Han as any Southern Chinese

    Good point. On a technical level, if being Han is being one of the many ethnic groups that were united under the Han dynasty, then yes, the Vietnamese can be considered Han.

    I am sure they wouldn’t like the idea tho…..at present.

    But wait another 100 years when China returns to its old prosperous and prestigious self. Then maybe the Vietnamese would like to be associated with Han.

    Kinda like how some Japanophile kids in Asia like to give themselves Japanese names in the recent past.
    I wouldn’t be surprised to start hearing them use Korean sounding names soon.

    • Replies: @Ben Sampson
    , @Smith
  159. @Brian Damage

    accurate and useful contribution, taking us forward

  160. @littlereddot

    Quote “But wait another 100 years when China returns to its old prosperous and prestigious self. Then maybe the Vietnamese would like to be associated with Han.”

    Capitalism’s is dcayed into its final stage then it evolves interest of all. into sustained, continuous, functional socialist organizations internally, globally multipolar and cooperative. Human advance has already made our evolutionary choices clear–either popular democratic-socicialist evolution, or some short term Orwellian/Huxleyist nightmare(s)


    Approaching truth and the determinatives of social existence…who and what we are how we may survive and live on sustainably, successfully, as a species

    • Replies: @littlereddot
  161. Smith says:
    @Brian Damage

    From my experience, the northern chinese are more reactive, proud, to your face-y, that’s why they are commonly known as cavalry troop. Their main martial art also focus on stance and kick.

    The southern chinese are more kind, warm, and focus on mercantilism and technology, that’s why the southerners adapt better to newer weapons like gunpowder weapons, crossbows, and their main martial art relies on the the fist.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  162. Smith says:
    @littlereddot

    Nah, no thanks.

    After all, Han lost to the mongols while the Viets didn’t.
    We Viets think our history is much more prestigious.

    We are safe watching you guys from afar, thank you.

  163. @Smith

    Lol. Leaving my own bias out… to clarify for non Asians – everyone should know Northern and Southern Chinese are indeed “different”. There was always a push and pull between the two. When Hakka people moved into Southern China they literally had to fight clan wars in Guangdong.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  164. @Brian Damage

    Ok – got ya: yeah and when the nation state was founded the Mizrahi (who includes Semites) who migrated from parts of Asia and Africa welt discriminated against by the European ones. To this day many will say it still exists

  165. @showmethereal

    Ok – got ya: yeah and when the nation state was founded the Mizrahi (who includes Semites) who migrated from parts of Asia and Africa welt discriminated against by the European ones. To this day many will say it still exists

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Israel

    As much as this site keeps blaming the Jews for their own problems, their wars against humanity. Even within Israel, you got the microcosm of it, Europeans causing problems within Israel. As far as I am concerned, Ashkenazi Jews are as White as any other Europeans. The difference is their religion is Judaism.

    Not unlike “native Americans” in North America, where White looking “native Americans” control native assets and resources. Used native grievances to get more money, rights and land from the government but never really trickle down to the “native looking” native Americans. All you need is to have 1/16 native blood to qualify as one. https://www.powwows.com/much-percentage-native-american-enroll-tribe/
    The poorer the natives are, the more socially dysfunctional they are, the better, to perpetuate that victimhood. I feel more so in Canada than the US.

    Same with the Gay movement. White gays pretty much set the agenda and non-White Gays are discriminated. They will use all the grievances and experiences of every Gays to get what they want to benefit mostly White gays.

    You see the pattern here?

  166. @showmethereal

    A continuation of my previous post.

    There is a pattern here. That’s why I am not surprised when the West started to push LGBTQ+, green agenda, climate issues, and other cross sectional issues to the rest of the world. Throw in a few token non-Whites in leadership positions for safe measure and all is good. So far it worked.

    I am not surprised the US has ideologues as diplomats instead of real diplomats.

    There is no difference between the Left and the Right. The Right are still deluded in their long gone glory days and thought the rest of the World are sh8tholes while the Left understood what’s at stake and the best way forward is to Kumbaya the whole world and maintain the status quo. Both sides strive for maintaining the status quo of Western hegemony.

    And I am not surprised the triggered hatred against the Chinese as it is the only country big enough to sidetrack this 21st century racism, “woke-ism”.

    Below is a video of Vijay Prashad lecturing those environmentalists. I don’t agree with him 100%, he is a staunch communist but the emotions he evoked are the same felt by many non-Western people. All these “woke” sh%ts are for the benefits of Western Whites, especially the elites.

    • Thanks: showmethereal
  167. @Smith

    Han Chinese got payback on the Mongols in this incident in 1891, but not in battle but by numerically overwhelming the Mongols in colonization and then attacking in a sneaky underhanded way,

    a Han Chinese secret society called Jindandao (金丹道), who rose in revolt in Inner Mongolia in November 1891 and massacred 150,000–500,000 Mongols before being suppressed by government troops in late December.[1][2][3] The revolt devastated Mongol communities in the southeastern borderland and forced many Mongols to take refuge in northern banners.[4] This massacre was later dubbed an incident by Chinese officials.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jindandao_incident

    Chinese historians have a very dishonest way of covering up how violent and bloodthirsty its past is.

    You knew that Cao Cao was a ruthless guy, but you didn’t that he wantonly massacred hundreds of thousands of civilians after he besieged cities. He also buried alive 70,000 of Yang Shao’s surrendered troops after Battle of Guandu–

    太祖击破之,遂攻拔襄贲,所过多所残戮,九月,公东征布。冬十月,屠彭城,获其相侯谐,邈从布,留超将家属屯雍丘。太祖攻围数月,屠之,斩超及其家,十二年,太祖征三郡乌丸,屠柳城,初平四年,曹操击谦,破彭城傅阳。谦退保郯,操攻之不能克,乃还。过拔取虑、雎陵、夏丘,皆屠之。凡杀男女数十万人,鸡犬无余,泗水为之不流,

    https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/屠杀#cite_note-6

    There’s a long page here just on the massacres that took place in the Ming-Qing transition,

    https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/明末清初屠殺事件

    • Replies: @Deep Thought
  168. @d dan

    As Mahatir Mohammed observed, China and southeast Asia had peaceful, mutually beneficial, relations, but when the West, in the form of the Portuguese, arrived, it took them a mere few years to attack, murder and destroy.

    • Replies: @Brian Damage
  169. @mulga mumblebrain

    As Mahatir Mohammed observed, China and southeast Asia had peaceful, mutually beneficial, relations, but when the West, in the form of the Portuguese, arrived, it took them a mere few years to attack, murder and destroy.

    Speaking of Mahathir, in 1987, a 10 year old boy, Darrell Abercrombie, from UK wrote a letter to him, then the Prime Minister of Malaysia. Darrell wrote that Malaysia should stop cutting down trees because animals in the tropical rainforest will disappear. Darrell felt it was disgraceful because he wanted to study these animals when he grows up. Below is part of Mahathir’s reply. For more, follow the link below .

    https://says.com/my/news/mahathir-s-reply-to-a-boy-from-england-about-logging-in-1987

  170. Smith says:

    Cao Cao was a hero, history be damned.

    Without him, the 3 Kingdoms era wouldn’t end.

    He’s my personal leader type, a good official in peacetime, a warlord in wartime.
    He also said the only truth in warfare “if you win, you are king, if you lose, you are a bandit”. Everything else is just hot air.

  171. @Smith

    I love the story of Cao Cao and his goons crashing a wedding, scaring off the men, ravishing the women, eating the food, and, when the guests return, mob-handed, they escape through a window, whereupon, Cao Cao, as his last comrade clambers through, shouts ‘There they go-let’s get them!” and leads the pursuit of his erstwhile colleagues.

  172. @Ben Sampson

    survive and live on sustainably

    I think we as a planet worry too much.

    In the past, the big worry was that the teeming masses in Asia and Africa will grow so large beyond the point that the planet can sustain us.

    But in the space of a few decades, Asia has already now begun the process of sharp slowing of population growth, and in parts a decrease. I attribute this to affluence. When a society becomes confident that their children will not die in large numbers due to starvation or disease, people naturally produce less offspring. Sure, there may be the odd exception here and there, but the general trend is clear.

    Just as Asia continues to slow its population growth with increasing affluence, Africa will do the same. It is my personal opinion that we are already at the peak, or near the peak of world population.

    Very soon countries will start competing with each other for immigrants. In my country, I already see this. Half the population here are non-citizens.

    Here is an irony. If people in the West really want to save the planet from population induced “climate change”, then the best thing to do is to encourage or even help China in its efforts to develop the rest of the Global South.

  173. @Smith

    The Zhang Yimou movie Hero went into a related theme. It explored the legacy of Qin Shihuang. Sure he did bad, but alot of good came out of it too.

    Same with the Manchu conquest of China. Of course nobody likes to be conquered. But some good did come out of it. The expanded borders that the PRC occupies today are a legacy of it. Do the pros outweigh the cons? I am not a Chinese citizen, so it is not for me to judge.

    • Replies: @Smith
  174. Smith says:
    @littlereddot

    That movie “Hero” is basically just style over substance. Too much flowerly fighting and battle, not enough story and context.
    A better Qin Shi Huang movie is the Emperor & the Assassin (Jing Ke assassinates Qin King).

    Too bad, chinese cinema nowadays have degraded, and you won’t see this kind of gritty movie anymore.

  175. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Han Chinese got payback on the Mongols in this incident in 1891, …

    Wonder when the Hans will do the same to the Japanese! The damage the Japs did to the Chinese matched those of the Mongols and Manchus…

    Worse for the Japs, they own blood debts not only to the Chinese but to almost all the East and Southeast Asians!

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  176. Anonymous[304] • Disclaimer says:
    @showmethereal

    to clarify for non Asians – everyone should know Northern and Southern Chinese are indeed “different”

    What I saw, when I was there, is that north and south Han like to rib and poke each other a lot, to make lots of jokes about each other, often to each others’ smiling faces. So “different” in the sense of two brothers being different.

    In fact, we can extend the whole thing. You have the “northern” group, which includes also the Mongols, Manchus, and Turkics, as well as Han north of the Yangtze river. And then the “southern” group – the Han south of the Yangtze, and including all the tiny minorities and mountain ethnicities.

    Most countries have a north/south distinction, although in China it’s more like a gray scale.

    It’s not the case that there’s a line where you cross the Yangtze, and suddenly it’s night and day difference. It’s very gradual, almost imperceptible.

    Now, if you cross the border to Myanmar or Vietnam, then absolutely the cultural and even ethnic change is stark. You immediately know you’ve left China.

    But that’s the core reason that Vietnam and Myanmar are not part of China in the first place – because they are simply not Chinese (and you can tell they are not Han) and vice-versa.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  177. @Anonymous

    In the north/south divide I was only referring to Han people. But Actually if you spend most of your time in in China in Guangxi and Yunnan and Southern Guangdong – then you actually don’t notice much difference if you went into Laos and Vietnam. In fact those ethnic minorities exist on both sides of the border – some times with a different name. Hmong people are but one example. That’s why the ASEAN trade forum is held in Nanning and not Shanghai. Closer cultural affinity. That’s why the China – Muslim country trade shows are held where the millions of Hui Muslims in China live. The Muslim visitors can go to mosques and eat Hallal food.

  178. @Deep Thought

    You know there are actually Japanese elites who worry that China wants revenge. That’s why they are willing to still bow to the US. And of course the US loves to play that card to keep Japan under the wing too…. But nah – China doesn’t want revenge. China’s “revenge” is RE-passing Japan economically and scientifically in all aspects (only a few boxes left to check on that). But not fighting. Now if something happens over Taiwan and Japan jumps in at the behest of the US – then unfortunately no mercy will be shown on Japan. But let’s hope wisdom prevails and people give up the folly of Taiwan independence.

  179. @Smith

    Jing Ke ATTEMPTS, but fails, to murder Qin Shi Huangdi. Got his sword caught in his robes, if I recall correctly.

    • Replies: @Smith
  180. @Smith

    we viets do feel kinship with the Cantonese,

    I have read similar words on the web before. And the viets also consider the Cantonese hapless little brothers waiting for the viets to rescue them from Han tyranny!

    That is a misplaced conviction. Being a Cantonese in HK my own observation is that, of all the Hans, the Cantonese are the most chauvinistic. They generally look down on Chinese from other provinces. The yellow house-niggers in HK have an added reason to do so because they see the mainland Chinese as “yellow field-niggers!”

    [MORE]

    https://www.scmp.com/comment/opinion/article/3030187/hk-people-have-superiority-complex-about-mainland

    Hong Kong people have superiority complex about mainland China

    Many believe they are fundamentally better than those over the border and there is something deeply wrong about being ruled by ‘barbarians’

    Alex Lo

    Published: 9:43pm, 24 Sep, 2019

    For a long time, I thought protesters who waved the colonial, British and American flags and sang their national anthems during protests were doing so just to spite Beijing and Chinese nationalists.

    There is surely a strong element of that. Now, though, I realise some of them actually mean it. I have seen too many videos showing protesters and rioters who immediately calmed down, reacted reasonably and/or even backed away when Western-looking people intervened in their actions.

    Whether it was blocking road traffic, rallying at the airport, stopping MTR trains from running or in a new YouTube clip, arguing with an expatriate woman who was tearing down messages from a “Lennon Wall” – they amazingly showed awe, respect or deference.

    If a mainlander or a local did it, they would beat them up.

    Given the chance, there is a small but vocal subset of Hong Kong people who really want the Brits to recolonise the city or the Americans to take it over. But since that’s an impossibility, they accept the next best thing, which is to get those Western countries to interfere in Hong Kong as much as possible.

    That may be hard for outsiders, especially mainlanders, to understand. Didn’t Hong Kong get over a century and a half of colonial rule like it was yesterday?

    But forget about Britain’s legitimate interest in Hong Kong; or debates about China’s obligations under the Sino-British Joint Declaration and whether the treaty’s main functions have been superseded by the Basic Law, the city’s mini-constitution. Those are afterthoughts, justifications used to invite the Brits to interfere. They are basically academic.

    We are not even talking about the viability of communist or authoritarian government. At a gut level, many Hongkongers believe they are fundamentally superior to mainlanders, so there is something deeply wrong about being ruled by barbarians. At the same time, they believe they are equal or possibly inferior to Westerners. Well, if they have to be ruled by someone, their preference, however unrealistic, is clear. Ironically, that’s a common Chinese trait – to place peoples within a “barbarian hierarchy”, say, South Asians, Filipinos and Indonesians in Hong Kong.

    Whether and to what extent they succeed in realising it, most Western societies at least have a strong cultural attachment to the ideal of equality. It’s rather different in Chinese societies. Perhaps if more Hongkongers admit their inferiority-superiority complex about mainlanders, we may all have an easier time coexisting.

    But…, the worst of their detestation is reserved for the Vietnamese!!!

  181. antibeast says:
    @Smith

    ‘Hero’ is all about showbiz, not enough about history. Another good movie about Qin Shi Huang is ‘Emperor’s Shadow’:

    • Replies: @Smith
  182. Smith says:
    @mulga mumblebrain

    You can watch the movie to see how it plays out.
    The movie I posted has a pretty historical portrayal on how Jing Ke tried to kill Qin King.

    • Replies: @mulga mumblebrain
  183. Smith says:
    @antibeast

    Will check it out, thanks m8.

  184. @Smith

    Well you said it not me, by that logic the Japanese have even less to apologize for. There was never any Confucian morality in Chinese history, only who’s more ruthless.

    But that wasn’t Cao Cao’s quote. Its attributed to Dong Zhuo’s lieutenant Li Jue 李傕,

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/成者為王,敗者為寇
    https://baike.baidu.com/item/胜者为王,败者为寇

    Cao Cao’s most famous quote, after he had slaughtered a kind-hearted friend who had given him shelter, is–

    I would rather that everyone were betrayed by me, instead of me being betrayed by everyone.

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/寧教我負天下人,休教天下人負我

    • Replies: @Smith
    , @Deep Thought
  185. Smith says:
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    I have said in the last thread that don’t mind the chinese nationalists. Anti-japanese is sorta nationalism for them, kinda like anti-chinese for us Viet ultras.
    Mao himself decided to normalize relationship with the japanese since the Tanaka-era. And yesterday Kishida just shakes hands with Xi.

    Though, I believe there’s no friendship in geopolitics, just use and be used.

    On the 3 Kingdoms note, Li Jue was kind of a loser piece of shit but if he did say that, he said something correctly.

  186. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    寧教我負天下人,休教天下人負我

    The MOST faithful practitioners of that philosophy are the murrikans:

    “You’re either with us or against us,” he continued. “And if you’re trading extensively with China, and you’re friendly with China, you’re undermining the United States in this security competition. You’re feeding the beast, from our perspective. And that is not going to make us happy. And when we are not happy you do not want to underestimate how nasty we can be. Just ask Fidel Castro.”

    Australia is not aligned with the US to protect itself from China. Australia is aligned with the US to protect itself from the US. As a Twitter follower recently observed, the US doesn’t have allies, only hostages.

    This is what we’re seeing all around the world now: a slow motion third world war being waged by the US power alliance against the remaining nations which have resisted being absorbed into it. As the most powerful of the unabsorbed nations by far, China is the ultimate target of this war. If the empire succeeds in its ultimate goal of stopping China, it will have attained a de facto planetary government which no population will be able to oppose or dissent from.

    https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2020/10/21/america-has-no-allies-only-hostages/

    And that is WHY the japs surrendered ONLY to the US but NOT to the other nations in East and Southeast Asia:

    [MORE]

    Devils Advocate_1in reply to Nguyen GiapJun 8th 2013 5:33 GMT

    Nguyen GiapJun 7th, 10:38

    Japan and Japanese is the most disgusting in the world. A barbaric pariah country that should have been totally destroyed back in 1945.

    Asia will have a 2nd chance to do just that:

    Devils Advocate_1in reply to Kara no Kyoukai

    Kara no Kyoukai reply to Pacific 15th, 04:30

    China never defeated Japan. Japan surrendered only to the United States…

    .
    There is some truth in your statement and it only confirms what many believe, which is that the Japanese only respect BRUTE FORCE. There is also some eerie similarity in mentality between the Japan of today and Germany between the World Wars.
    .
    After WWI, the German army felt “betrayed” by their politicians, who surrendered “without being militarily defeated”. As a result the German right-wing did not feel obliged to accept the terms of their defeat. All that changed after WWII, in which Germany was not only soundly defeated but did so by its main victim– The USSR. The Rape of Berlin woke up the Germans so much that the denial of the Holocaust became a crime in Germany.
    .
    The fact that the main victims of Imperial Japan– China, Korea– did not actually militarily defeat Japan makes the Japanese right-wing arrogant. They feel that they are superior to their former victims while instinctively submitting to their white conquerors. It will have to take a “Rape of Tokyo” to bring them to their senses.
    .
    Needless to say, your statement above merely admits that, of the War in the Pacific and East Asia, only the part between Japan and the US is settled. The part between Japan and its Asian victims is still unfinished and remains suspended. Like the war in Europe, it will take a 2nd session to bring it to conclusion. Fortunately, unlike the first session, this 2nd session will be fought when the aggressor, Japan, will be weak while its victims, China, Korea and other Asian countries, will be strong. THAT will be poetic justice done!
    .
    Devil’s

  187. @Smith

    Anti-japanese is sorta nationalism for them, kinda like anti-chinese for us Viet ultras.

    Totally agree! As I have said repeatedly:

    The Vietnamese are just smaller versions of Chinese,

    From intellectual ability to chauvinistic attitude,

    From body size to penis size!!!

    • LOL: littlereddot
  188. antibeast says:
    @Deep Thought

    The fact that the main victims of Imperial Japan– China, Korea– did not actually militarily defeat Japan makes the Japanese right-wing arrogant.

    And that is WHY the Japs surrendered ONLY to the US but NOT to the other nations in East and Southeast Asia.

    That is a myth invented by right-wing Japanese neo-fascists and their Western apologists. The Soviet Red Army did militarily defeat the Kwantung Army in Manchuria. After defeating the Japanese in Burma, the Chinese Nationalist Army equipped its 36 divisions with American weapons supplied via the Ledo Road in Burma. That was enough to allow the Chinese Nationalist Army to successfully fight and win all battles and gained back Chinese territories lost to Operationf Ichi-go in the last six months of WWII. Had Emperor Hirohito not surrendered to the Americans, the Soviet Red Army would have reached Hokkaido while the remaining Imperial Japanese Army troops would have moved out of China to defend Japan, as called for in Operation Ketsu-go. Even without the Americans, the entry of the Soviet Red Army alone would have turned the tide against the Japanese not only in Manchuria but also in the rest of China because Manchuria served as the industrial base of the Imperial Japanese Army.

    • Replies: @antibeast
  189. @Deep Thought

    And that is WHY the japs surrendered ONLY to the US but NOT to the other nations in East and Southeast Asia:

    I can imagine what the US military emissaries said to Imperial Japan while negotiating their surrender “If you surrender to us, we will save you from the Chinese, Koreans and all the others”…….they sold out their “allies” in order to position themselves as future world hegemon.

    And to this day, boys and girls, the Japanese bacame a willing puppet to keep the USA on top.

    • Replies: @antibeast
  190. antibeast says:
    @Deep Thought

    The fact that the main victims of Imperial Japan – China, Korea – did not actually militarily defeat Japan makes the Japanese right-wing arrogant.

    And that is WHY the Japs surrendered ONLY to the US but NOT to the other nations in East and Southeast Asia.

    That is a myth invented by right-wing Japanese neo-fascists and their Western apologists. Even without the Americans, the entry of the Soviet Red Army alone would have turned the tide against the Japanese because Manchuria served as the industrial base of the Imperial Japanese Army. The Soviet Red Army did militarily defeat the Kwantung Army in Manchuria. The Chinese Nationalist Army also defeated the Japanese in Burma which allowed 36 Chinese divisions to be equipped with American weapons supplied via the Ledo Road in Burma. That was enough to enable the Chinese Nationalist Army to successfully fight and win all battles and gained back all territories lost to Operationf Ichi-go in the last six months of WWII. Had Emperor Hirohito not surrendered to the Americans, the Soviet Red Army would have reached Hokkaido while more Imperial Japanese Army troops would have to move out of China to defend Japan, as called for in Operation Ketsu-go. With the loss of Manchuria and the defeat of the Kwantung Army, the remaining Imperial Japanese Army would be fighting a three-front war against the Soviet Red Army in the Northeast and the Chinese Nationalist Army in the Southwest, plus the million-man strong CCP guerrilla army all over the countryside. that’s why the Japanese surrendered to the Americans because MacArthur struck a deal with Hirohito by promising to protect him from war-crimes persecution. That saved Hirohito from either being killed or captured had the Soviet Red Army reached Tokyo. That also saved the ImperialJapanese Army from getting defeated in China, after their defeats in Burma and Manchuria.

  191. @Deep Thought

    In Austfailia the entire ‘intelligence’, military, political and MSM pathocracy are more loyal to the US and the Empire than to Austfailia. It comes from being one of the Five Eyes, the gang of Anglo settler, racist, genocidists who ABSOLUTELY believe that they must rule the planet forever. The Wizz hereabouts is typical of the type. Any government that shows any sign of independence, eg Whitlam and Rudd, is swiftly dispatched by the USA and its Quisling ‘protected sources’ in the country.

    • Replies: @Deep Thought
  192. @Smith

    Or you can read Sima Qian for the historical record. I got mine second-hand from ‘The Tiger of Ch’in’ by Leonard Cottrell as a child sick with measles.

  193. antibeast says:
    @littlereddot

    I can imagine what the US military emissaries said to Imperial Japan while negotiating their surrender “If you surrender to us, we will save you from the Chinese, Koreans and all the others”…….they sold out their “allies” in order to position themselves as future world hegemon.

    The historical revisionism of the right-wing Japanese neo-fascists is just Japanese coping with their military defeat in WWII. The fact of the matter is that the IJA had lost to the CNA in Burma and Hunan, two decisive military defeats which forced the Japanese to start withdrawing from China to defend their home island of Japan as called for in Operation Ketsu-go. The last few months of the war saw the CNA, newly-equipped with American weapons, fast gaining ground in the Southwest as the IJA was ceding territories captured during Operation Ichi-go the year before. With the defeat of the Kwantung Army by and the loss of Manchuria to the Soviet Red Army, the Japanese knew they had lost the war in China. But the Americans wanted Hirohito to surrender to them in order to prevent the Soviet Red Army from reaching Japan by promising the Japanese that they would save Emperor Hirohito from war-crime prosecution and preserve his imperial throne in exchange for an ‘unconditional surrender’ (wink, wink). And that’s exactly what happened after Hirohito surrendered to MacArthur who promptly protected Hirohito and his throne.

    All this talk about the atomic bombings forcing Hirohito to surrender is a smokescreen to cover up the treacherous conduct of the Americans who betrayed their Asian and Western allies which had wanted to prosecute Hirohito for war-crimes after his surrender. But that was exactly their quid-pro-quo which the Japanese had sought before agreeing to surrender. And in order to hide that fact, the Americans made it appear as if Hirohito had surrendered only after the two atomic bombings which were intended to warn Stalin not to invade Japan.

    • Agree: showmethereal
    • Thanks: littlereddot
    • Replies: @Che Guava
    , @littlereddot
  194. @mulga mumblebrain

    Yes! But I have far greater respect for Keating and love his “make a cat laugh” comment.

  195. Lurker says:
    @Anonymous

    Agree. It’s very difficult for western nations to do this. Not with a parasitic infestation screeching into your ear every waking minute.

  196. Che Guava says:
    @antibeast

    Antibeast,

    You are well-informed on many points.

    However, two disagreements.

    Americans who betrayed their Asian and Western allies which had wanted to prosecute Hirohito for war-crimes after his surrender.

    Which were these ‘Asian and Western allies’ of America at the time?

    The RoC and Britain?

    made it appear as if Hirohito had surrendered only after the two atomic bombings which were intended to warn Stalin not to invade Japan.

    I agree with that, to a degree, but would cut the ‘not to invade Japan’ part. How was the U.S.S.R. of then to invade Japan? I’ve seen the alleged (as in likely fabricated) old maps of a partitioned Japan, but the U.S.S.R. didn’t have the floating transportation means or means in general to do more than make a beach-head on Hokkaidou. It’s a big island.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
    , @antibeast
  197. @Che Guava

    The Soviets took the Kurils from Japan at that time. Aside from China – Japan is subservient to the US because they want the Kurils back from Russia. The US forced Ryuku/Okinawa to go back to Japan and gave Japan back the Diayou to spite the PRC even though the ROC in Taiwan also claims them. But the US couldn’t do anything about the Soviets holding the Kurils. Japan surrendered all but it’s 4 main islands after WW2 so has no real claims to any of those . Not to digress – the Soviets could get across from the Kurils

    • Agree: antibeast
  198. @Smith

    The difference is that there aren’t many Viets in China, but there are now a million Chinese in Japan and growing.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_people_in_Japan

    Jackie Chan made a movie about this in Shinjuku Incident where he’s an illegal immigrant to Japan. He joins the criminal underclass, where all the Chinese pretended to be brothers with each other but in the end all backstabbed each other and died like sewer rats.

    Cao Cao was assessed very favourably in Records of the Three Kingdoms,

    評曰:漢末,天下大亂,雄豪並起,而袁紹虎眎四州,彊盛莫敵。太祖運籌演謀,鞭撻宇內,擥申、商之法術,該韓、白之奇策

    https://ctext.org/text.pl?node=601875&if=en

    He’s compared in statecraft with Shang Yang and Shen Buhai, military strategy with Han Xin and Bai Qi (who like him, buried alive massive numbers of captured soldiers).

    ROTK assessed him more negatively but that had to do with political reasons– Cao Cao ruled the north, by the time of Luo Guanzhong northern China had been under barbarian Jürchen Mongol rule for three centuries.

    • Replies: @Deep Thought
  199. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    there are now a million Chinese in Japan and growing.

    That is cause and effect. The Chinese should bring their African brothers along. The women of the Yamato-Race are particular weak at their kneels when it comes to African men! THAT would spell the end of the “superiority and purity of the Yamato-Race!”

  200. @antibeast

    Japanese neo-fascists is just Japanese coping with their military defeat in WWII.

    It is too hard for them to cope with being beaten by what they regard as “inferior races”. I believe that they refer to the rest of Asia as “Asia”, as if they don’t belong to it. For example “look at those Asians and their uncivilised ways”.

    • Replies: @Deep Thought
  201. antibeast says:
    @Che Guava

    I agree with that, to a degree, but would cut the ‘not to invade Japan’ part. How was the U.S.S.R. of then to invade Japan? I’ve seen the alleged (as in likely fabricated) old maps of a partitioned Japan, but the U.S.S.R. didn’t have the floating transportation means or means in general to do more than make a beach-head on Hokkaidou. It’s a big island.

    Stalin had planned to invade Hokkaido on August 24 but those plans were cancelled on August 22, 1945. Despite Hirohito’s surrender on August 15, the Soviet Red Army had started their invasion of the Kuril Islands on August 18, 1945 which ended on September 2, 1945, the same date Japan’s surrender was formally signed onboard the USS Missouri. Stalin had the military means to invade Hokkaido but risked a violent reaction from the Americans.

    If Truman had wanted to save Japanese lives, he could have postponed the atomic bombings until Hirohito accepted the Potsdam terms of unconditional surrender just a week after the Soviet Red Army began their invasion of Manchuria. But Truman had decided to drop the two atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki on August 6 and 9 respectively. Why the haste? This decision IMHO was made in haste as Operation Olympic which called for the American invasion of Kyushu was planned to commence on November 1, 1945. If Hirohito had not surrendered to the Americans on August 15, the Soviet Red Army would have reached Hokkaido by September and possibly onwards to Honshu by November. That was the dilemma that Truman faced when he decided to drop the two atomic bombs whose existence was hinted to Stalin on July 25, 1945 during the Potsdam Conference. Two weeks later, Truman dropped the two atomic bombs as a stark warning to Stalin not to invade Japan. All this talk of Truman’s motivation for dropping the atomic bombings in order to save American lives is bunk because Operation Olympic was not scheduled to commence until November 1, almost three months after the Soviet Red Army began their invasion of the Kuril Islands which is right next door to Hokkaido, unlike Kyushu which is quite far from Okinawa.

    • LOL: Che Guava
    • Replies: @antibeast
  202. @littlereddot

    … they regard as “inferior races”. I believe that they refer to the rest of Asia as “Asia”, as if they don’t belong to it.

    Yours is not just pure speculation. Hating Korea is now followed by hating China!

    [MORE]

    http://theseoultimes.com/ST/db/read.php?idx=2701

    “But the comic book, perhaps inadvertently, also betrays Japan’s conflicted identity, its longstanding feelings of superiority toward Asia and of inferiority toward the West. The Japanese characters in the book are drawn with big eyes, blond hair and Caucasian features; the Koreans are drawn with black hair, narrow eyes and very Asian features.”

    Asia Rivals’ Ugly Images Best Sellers in Japan

    By Norimitsu Onishi

    In “Hating the Korean Wave,” a young Japanese woman says, “It’s not an exaggeration to say that Japan built the South Korea of today!” Photo Courtesy Sharin Yamano/Shinyusha

    TOKYO, Nov. 19 — A young Japanese woman in the comic book “Hating the Korean Wave” exclaims, “It’s not an exaggeration to say that Japan built the South Korea of today!” In another passage the book states that “there is nothing at all in Korean culture to be proud of.”

    In another comic book, “Introduction to China,” which portrays the Chinese as a depraved people obsessed with cannibalism, a woman of Japanese origin says: “Take the China of today, its principles, thought, literature, art, science, institutions. There’s nothing attractive.”

    The two comic books, portraying Chinese and Koreans as base peoples and advocating confrontation with them, have become runaway best sellers in Japan in the last four months.

    In their graphic and unflattering drawings of Japan’s fellow Asians and in the unapologetic, often offensive contents of their speech bubbles, the books reveal some of the sentiments underlying Japan’s worsening relations with the rest of Asia.

    They also point to Japan’s longstanding unease with the rest of Asia and its own sense of identity, which is akin to Britain’s apartness from the Continent. Much of Japan’s history in the last century and a half has been guided by the goal of becoming more like the West and less like Asia. Today, China and South Korea’s rise to challenge Japan’s position as Asia’s economic, diplomatic and cultural leader is inspiring renewed xenophobia against them here.

    Kanji Nishio, a scholar of German literature, is honorary chairman of the Japanese Society for History Textbook Reform, the nationalist organization that has pushed to have references to the country’s wartime atrocities eliminated from junior high school textbooks.

    Mr. Nishio is blunt about how Japan should deal with its neighbors, saying nothing has changed since 1885, when one of modern Japan’s most influential intellectuals, Yukichi Fukuzawa, said Japan should emulate the advanced nations of the West and leave Asia by dissociating itself from its backward neighbors, especially China and Korea.

    “I wonder why they haven’t grown up at all,” Mr. Nishio said. “They don’t change. I wonder why China and Korea haven’t learned anything.”

    Mr. Nishio, who wrote a chapter in the comic book about South Korea, said Japan should try to cut itself off from China and South Korea, as Fukuzawa advocated. “Currently we cannot ignore South Korea and China,” Mr. Nishio said. “Economically, it’s difficult. But in our hearts, psychologically, we should remain composed and keep that attitude.”

    The reality that South Korea had emerged as a rival hit many Japanese with full force in 2002, when the countries were co-hosts of soccer’s World Cup and South Korea advanced further than Japan. At the same time, the so-called Korean Wave – television dramas, movies and music from South Korea – swept Japan and the rest of Asia, often displacing Japanese pop cultural exports.

    The wave, though popular among Japanese women, gave rise to a countermovement, especially on the Internet. Sharin Yamano, the young cartoonist behind “Hating the Korean Wave,” began his strip on his own Web site then.

    “The ‘Hate Korea’ feelings have spread explosively since the World Cup,” said Akihide Tange, an editor at Shinyusha, the publisher of the comic book. Still, the number of sales, 360,000 so far, surprised the book’s editors, suggesting that the Hate Korea movement was far larger than they had believed.

    “We weren’t expecting there’d be so many,” said Susumu Yamanaka, another editor at Shinyusha. “But when the lid was actually taken off, we found a tremendous number of people feeling this way.”

    So far the two books, each running about 300 pages and costing around $10, have drawn little criticism from public officials, intellectuals or the mainstream news media. For example, Japan’s most conservative national daily, Sankei Shimbun, said the Korea book described issues between the countries “extremely rationally, without losing its balance.”

    As nationalists and revisionists have come to dominate the public debate in Japan, figures advocating an honest view of history are being silenced, said Yutaka Yoshida, a historian at Hitotsubashi University here. Mr. Yoshida said the growing movement to deny history, like the Rape of Nanjing, was a sort of “religion” for an increasingly insecure nation.

    “Lacking confidence, they need a story of healing,” Mr. Yoshida said. “Even if we say that story is different from facts, it doesn’t mean anything to them.”

    The Korea book’s cartoonist, who is working on a sequel, has turned down interview requests. The book centers on a Japanese teenager, Kaname, who attains a “correct” understanding of Korea. It begins with a chapter on how South Korea’s soccer team supposedly cheated to advance in the 2002 Word Cup; later chapters show how Kaname realizes that South Korea owes its current success to Japanese colonialism.

    “It is Japan who made it possible for Koreans to join the ranks of major nations, not themselves,” Mr. Nishio said of colonial Korea.

    But the comic book, perhaps inadvertently, also betrays Japan’s conflicted identity, its longstanding feelings of superiority toward Asia and of inferiority toward the West. The Japanese characters in the book are drawn with big eyes, blond hair and Caucasian features; the Koreans are drawn with black hair, narrow eyes and very Asian features.

    That peculiar aesthetic, so entrenched in pop culture that most Japanese are unaware of it, has its roots in the Meiji Restoration of the late 19th century, when Japanese leaders decided that the best way to stop Western imperialists from reaching here was to emulate them.

    In 1885, Fukuzawa – who is revered to this day as the intellectual father of modern Japan and adorns the 10,000 yen bill (the rough equivalent of a $100 bill) – wrote “Leaving Asia,” the essay that many scholars believe provided the intellectual underpinning of Japan’s subsequent invasion and colonization of Asian nations.

    Fukuzawa bemoaned the fact that Japan’s neighbors were hopelessly backward.

    Writing that “those with bad companions cannot avoid bad reputations,” Fukuzawa said Japan should depart from Asia and “cast our lot with the civilized countries of the West.” He wrote of Japan’s Asian neighbors, “We should deal with them exactly as the Westerners do.”

    As those sentiments took root, the Japanese began acquiring Caucasian features in popular drawing. The biggest change occurred during the Russo-Japanese War of 1904 to 1905, when drawings of the war showed Japanese standing taller than Russians, with straight noses and other features that made them look more European than their European enemies.

    “The Japanese had to look more handsome than the enemy,” said Mr. Nagayama.

    Many of the same influences are at work in the other new comic book, “An Introduction to China,” which depicts the Chinese as obsessed with cannibalism and prostitution, and has sold 180,000 copies.

    The book describes China as the “world’s prostitution superpower” and says, without offering evidence, that prostitution accounts for 10 percent of the country’s gross domestic product. It describes China as a source of disease and depicts Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi saying, “I hear that most of the epidemics that broke out in Japan on a large scale are from China.”

    The book waves away Japan’s worst wartime atrocities in China. It dismisses the Rape of Nanjing, in which historians say 100,000 to 300,000 Chinese were killed by Japanese soldiers in 1937-38, as a fabrication of the Chinese government devised to spread anti-Japanese sentiment.

    The book also says the Japanese Imperial Army’s Unit 731 – which researched biological warfare and conducted vivisections, amputations and other experiments on thousands of Chinese and other prisoners – was actually formed to defend Japanese soldiers against the Chinese.

    “The only attractive thing that China has to offer is Chinese food,” said Ko Bunyu, a Taiwan-born writer who provided the script for the comic book. Mr. Ko, 66, has written more than 50 books on China, some on cannibalism and others arguing that Japanese were the real victims of their wartime atrocities in China. The book’s main author and cartoonist, a Japanese named George Akiyama, declined to be interviewed.

    Like many in Taiwan who are virulently anti-China, Mr. Ko is fiercely pro-Japanese and has lived here for four decades. A longtime favorite of the Japanese right, Mr. Ko said anti-Japan demonstrations in China early this year had earned him a wider audience. Sales of his books surged this year, to one million.

    “I have to thank China, really,” Mr. Ko said. “But I’m disappointed that the sales of my books could have been more than one or two million if they had continued the demonstrations.”

    The above article is from The New York Times

    • Thanks: littlereddot
  203. Che Guava says:
    @showmethereal

    Rubbish on many counts. Japan isn’t

    subservient to the US because they want the Kurils back from Russia

    , in fact Japan was threatened with not having the Ryukyuu islands back (and ‘back’ was aburd, it had been an annexation in the first place.

    At the time of annexation by Japan, the Ryukyuu Kingdom had a tribulatory relatory with China and and a minor relation with Satsuma Han in southern Kyushuu.

    The latter seized most of the northernmost islands of the Ryukuu island kingdom, not for a unitary, that didn’t exist

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  204. Che Guava says:
    @showmethereal

    I am preparing a post to cover the whole, but must sleeping and working tomorrow, saved as a text file, think I posted a scrap of it.

  205. antibeast says:
    @antibeast

    Here’s a map showing the Soviet invasion of Japan’s Kuril Islands:

    From the Kuril Islands, the Soviet Red Army was just a stone’s throw away from Hokkaido, seen on the lower left hand side of the map above. That must have compelled Truman to finally decide to drop the two atomic bombs on Japan to show America’s newfound military might which forced Stalin to cancel the planned invasion of Hokkaido. There’s a Chinese saying: “Killing the Chickens, to Scare the Monkeys”. And that’s exactly what Truman did to scare Stalin.

    • Disagree: Che Guava
    • Thanks: littlereddot
  206. Che Guava says:
    @showmethereal

    Not true. The distance from the southernmost of the Kuriles (Etorofu) to Hokkaidou is short, but the U.S.S.R. didn’t have the water transport to launch a major invasion.

    Also, the U.S. army air force would have attacked, and we might have had WWIII back then. Possibly the world would have been better than now if that had happened, the U.S.A. would have been pushed back, they didn’t have any spare atomic bombs, only the two they dropped, so their earlier invasion plans were nonsensical.

    • Replies: @antibeast
  207. Che Guava says:

    That is nonsense, the two atomic bombings had two purposes.

    1. Experimental. Simply to see the effects.

    2. To threaten the U.S.S.R. in general, and no connection to the mythical invasion of Japan by the U.S.S.R.

  208. @Che Guava

    I think you are confused between the difference of Ryuku and Kurils. They are many thousands of kilometers away from each other and have complete different histories. Maybe that’s why you don’t know what’s rubbish and what is not

  209. antibeast says:
    @Che Guava

    The distance from the southernmost of the Kuriles (Etorofu) to Hokkaidou is short, but the U.S.S.R. didn’t have the water transport to launch a major invasion.

    How did the USSR manage to invade the Kuril Islands from Sakhalin if they ‘didn’t have water transport to launch a major invasion’ as you claim? Surely, you must have missed that part of the equation which likely convinced the Yanks that they had to get the Japanese to surrender to them before Stalin launched his invasion of Hokkaido from the Kuril Islands which he did grab from the Japanese by September 2, 1945. Here’s the planned invasion of Japan by the Americans called ‘Operation Downfall’:

    Note the dates for the invasions of Kyushu (November 1, 1945) and Honshu (March 1, 1946) planned by the Americans in Operations Olympic and Coronet, respectively, as part of Operation Downfall. That was too little too late as the Soviet Red Army would have reached Hokkaido and Honshu by those dates respectively before the Americans could even commence their planned invasions of the main islands of Japan. The Yanks needed the Japanese to surrender to them before the Soviet Red Army reached Hokkaido. And that’s why the Yanks agreed to protect Hirohito from war times prosecution in exchange for his ‘unconditional surrender’ to them by the end of August 1945.

    • Replies: @littlereddot
  210. @antibeast

    Thanks, you make good points.

    So like in the western front, where the US and Brit invasions of Europe was a land grab in order to stop the Soviets from gobbling up all of Europe,

    In the east, the US was also desperate to stop the Soviets from gobbling up Japan before them. It puts their use of the two A-bombs in a better perspective.

    • Replies: @antibeast
    , @Che Guava
  211. antibeast says:
    @littlereddot

    In the east, the US was also desperate to stop the Soviets from gobbling up Japan before them. It puts their use of the two A-bombs in a better perspective.

    The Americans were also desperate to stop China from falling to the Soviet/Chinese Communists after the Soviet Red Army had defeated the Kwantung Army in Manchuria. That’s why the US military had to hurriedly airlift Chiang’s Chinese Nationalist Army troops to Manchuria to accept the surrender of Japanese troops there. But it was too little too late as the Chinese Communists had already moved into Soviet-occupied Manchuria and grabbed the weapons left-over by the departing Japanese.

    Here’s a map of the wartime situation in China by August 1, 1945:

    https://catalog.archives.gov/id/50925960

    Note the black arrows indicating the planned withdrawals of the Imperial Japanese Army under Operation Ketsu-go which called for abandoning Southwest China and Fujian to reinforce the IJA’s China Expeditionary Army in Northeast China after their defeat in the Battle of West Hunan in Central China. The Chinese Nationalist Army had planned to liberate the coastal cities of Canton and Shanghai under Operation Carbonara which sought to fight the final battle in Northeast China to liberate Peking.

    Aside from Japan, the biggest reason why the Yanks had to get Hirohito to surrender to them as soon as possible was to prevent the combined Communist Armies of Stalin and Mao from defeating and capturing the remaining IJA troops in Northeast China after the Soviet conquest of Manchuria and defeat of the Kwantung Army. That was untenable for the Yanks who were forced by the looming prospect of losing China to the Soviet/Chinese Communists to strike a secret deal with Hirohito in order to allow the USA to dictate the terms of the postwar order in East Asia.

    • Thanks: littlereddot
    • Replies: @antibeast
  212. antibeast says:
    @antibeast

    The map below is the wartime situation in China as of August 1, 1945:

    • Replies: @antibeast
  213. antibeast says:
    @antibeast

    The following American account describes the wartime situation in the China Theatre by August 1945:

    https://history.army.mil/brochures/chinoff/chinoff.htm

    In mid-April the Japanese Imperial General Headquarters had more immediate matters to reflect on. American troops had landed on Iwo Jima and Okinawa, which could provide staging bases for attacks on Japan itself. Subsequently, Tokyo ordered the Kwangtung Army in Manchuria to transfer one-third of its ammunition and some of its best troops to the home islands. Tokyo also issued warning orders to the China Expeditionary Army to prepare to concentrate its forces in the Yangtze River valley between Shanghai and Hankow; around the main ports of China, such as Shanghai and Canton; and across northern China, joining with the remaining units of the Manchurian Kwangtung Army. Okamura was to be reinforced with newly mobilized units from Japan, bringing his total troop strength by the summer of 1945 to over a million men south of the Great Wall, although the quality was less than before. The redeployment in China would guard against anticipated American amphibious landings along the coast and a Soviet attack from the north. The Japanese leaders hoped to deny the Allies staging areas from which they could attack Japan and to protect Chinese mines and factories, which could still supply Japan’s military forces.

    Thus, when the Japanese drive on Chihchiang was blunted and pushed back, reinforcements were not rushed to the area to retrieve the situation, as the local commander demanded. Instead, the Japanese prepared for further withdrawals. In mid-May, as the situation on Okinawa deteriorated, Imperial General Headquarters ordered the evacuation of the southern rail line extending to Kweilin and Liuchow, a branch of the main Hankow-Canton railway. Thus, within a few days of the end of the Chihchiang campaign, General Okamura had begun to move units from south China and redeploy them into northern and central China.

    As the Japanese forces started pulling back, General Wedemeyer and China theater planners began studies on how best to exploit the withdrawal. Reviving the BETA plan for an advance to the coast to capture the ports of Canton and Hong Kong seemed a good possibility. With U.S. forces now established in the Philippines, supplies could quickly be brought to China from Manila. Furthermore, the evacuation of the air bases in the Kweilin-Liuchow area, about 270 miles west of Canton, which was expected to occur soon, would help solve the logistical problems of supporting the offensive. Supplies then could be flown directly from India or the Philippines to east China.

    The revised plan, renamed CARBONADO, called for a rapid advance to the coast in August to seize Fort Bayard on the Liuchow Peninsula, about 250 miles southwest of Canton. Once a forward supply base had been established at Fort Bayard, Wedemeyer believed that the main CARBONADO attack could begin on 1 September from the Kweilin-Liuchow area with a final assault on Canton on 1 November. Additional combat aircraft arrived in China to prepare for and support CARBONADO. The U.S. Tenth Air Force from India joined the Fourteenth Air Force on 23 July to form the Army Air Forces, China theater, under the command of Lt. Gen. George E. Stratemeyer. Logistical support was another matter, and it proved to be no less troublesome than previously.

    The Chinese armies slowly moved forward into the vacuum left by the retreating Japanese. Northeast of Chungking, the Chinese armies skirmished with the Japanese in June and July and then withdrew to reorganize when it became apparent that the new Japanese defensive line was strongly held. In central and south China, more minor fighting occurred, but the Japanese troop movements into northern and central China were largely unopposed, at least initially. Along the coast between Shanghai and Canton, Nationalist Chinese forces moved into Fukien Province, seizing the port of Foochow in May. Despite this success, the Japanese tightened their grip on Shanghai and also south of Foochow, on Canton, by reinforcing the garrisons of the two ports with troops withdrawn from Fukien and by sending additional troops to the Swatow and Amoy coastal areas between the Canton-Hong Kong area and Foochow. Although the Japanese hoped to reserve their main strength for a defensive struggle in the north, they meant to conduct a strong rearguard action against any Allied attempts to seize the southern coast from either the land or the sea.

    On 26 June Chinese forces recaptured the airfield at Liuchow, but sharp fighting ensued as the Chinese attempted to cut the Japanese line of withdrawal near Kweilin, on the railway about one hundred miles north of Liuchow. By the end of July, the Chinese had concentrated sufficient troops in the area for an attack, but the Japanese, the bulk of whom had cleared the area moving north, relinquished the city. As August began, the Japanese had almost completed their redeployment into the areas they intended to defend to the last.

    • Thanks: littlereddot
  214. Che Guava says:
    @littlereddot

    It is nonsense, the U.S.S.R. did’nt have enough water transport.

    • Replies: @littlereddot
    , @antibeast
  215. @Che Guava

    They beat the mighty Wehrmacht. I wouldn’t put it beyond them.
    These are the same people who evacuated whole industries to across the Urals to save them from German attacks.

    Especially since they had already been island hopping all across the Kurils.

    • Agree: antibeast
  216. antibeast says:
    @Che Guava

    The following decoded telegraph, dated August 10, 1945, intercepted by the Allied Forces shows that the USSR had plans for ‘liberation of the Japanese people’, whatever that means:

    The following document contains written orders from the CPC’s Yan’an headquarters, dated August 10, 1945, containing instructions for the disarmament of Japanese forces upon Japan’s surrender:

    In other words, the Chinese Communists had expected the Imperial Japanese Army to surrender to them, not to the Americans, while the Soviet Communists had plans for the ‘liberation of the Japanese people’, whatever that implies. Had Hirohito not surrendered to the Americans on August 15, 1945, the Chinese Communists would have defeated the remnants of the Imperial Japanese Army who would have had to withdraw much of their troops from China and evacuate them to their home islands of Japan where they had expected to make their last stand, effectively ending the Second Sino-Japanese War in China by December 1945.

    The Chinese Civil War would have begun in early 1946 as did happen but would have ended much sooner in late 1946 after the Chinese Communists had gained control of the Northeast. During this time, the Americans would still be pre-occupied with fighting the Imperial Japanese Army who had vowed to make their last stand in Japan.

    Beyond the defeat of the Imperial Japanese Army in Japan, the Yanks had other plans which were to 1). warn Stalin not to be too aggressive in East Asia, and 2). support Chiang against Mao in the ensuing Chinese Civil War. The only way for the Yanks to win over the Japanese to their side in their incipient Cold War against the USSR was to strike a secret deal with Hirohito, effectively turning him into a client of the USA after his surrender. This Cold War thinking explains why MacArthur did everything he could to protect Hirohito from war crimes prosecution after moving to Japan in the aftermath of Hirohito’s surrender.

    Oh, one last thing, the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki had no impact on the conduct of the war in Japan because those Japanese cities were deliberately chosen not for their military value but for their high density of civilian populations, just like the firebombings of Tokyo which produced the highest civilian casualties in any theatre during WWII. If Hirohito didn’t bother to surrender after the firebombings of Tokyo on March 9-10, 1945, why would he surrender after the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki on August 6 and 9, 1945, respectively? To convince Hirohito to surrender to them before the Soviet and Chinese Communists had the chance to defeat the Imperial Japanese Army in China, the Yanks offered Hirohito immunity from war crimes prosecution and turned him into their Cold War Ally. That would explain Hirohito’s sanitized image unlike Mao’s demonization in the West today.

    • Agree: Deep Thought
    • Thanks: d dan
    • Replies: @antibeast
  217. antibeast says:
    @antibeast

    The research study below provides details into the thinking and reaction of the Japanese to the Soviet invasion of Manchuria (bold emphasis mine):

    https://www.kinu.or.kr/pyxis-api/1/digital-files/386b2e1a-ee83-44a6-a667-8324ea81f256

    From February 1945, Japan witnessed the massive buildup of Soviet military power in Siberia. Lieutenant Colonel Sejima Ryūzō of the Operation Division was dispatched to Moscow as a diplomatic courier, leaving Tokyo on December 25, 1944, and returning in early February. On the Trans-Siberian Railroad, which took two weeks to cross one way, he observed train after train loaded with Russian troops, tanks, and equipment being shifted eastward. In late February 1945, Army Headquarters in Tokyo confirmed a marked increase in the shifting of Russian troops on the Trans-Siberian Railroad, including anti-aircraft guns and airplanes. The number of trains actually observed from late February to early August was between 800 and 1,000. On July 26, Colonel Shiroki Suenari, the new chief of the Russian Section of the Army Headquarters, reported that the Soviets had completed transporting 1.5 million troops, 5,400 airplanes, and 3,000 tanks to the Far East. By early August, according to Hayashi Saburō, Army Headquarters estimated Soviet strength on the Soviet-Manchuria border to be 1.6 million troops, with 6,500 airplanes and 4,500 tanks. Shiroki concluded that, because the Russian troops were not equipped with winter uniforms and equipment, the Soviet Union might commence its military operation against Japan on August 1, so as to complete its occupation of Manchuria in the months of September and October, before the winter sets in.

    Faced with this mounting threat, Japan was utterly unprepared. Most of the old elite units of the Kwantung Army had already been removed from Manchuria and redeployed elsewhere in the Pacific. Between January 1943 and January 1945, thirteen Divisions from the Kwantung Army were sent to the South Pacific, and in March 1945, seven more Divisions of the Kwantung Army were reassigned to the Japanese homeland and the Southern region of Korea. To replace them, some twenty-four Divisions were reorganized in haste, recruiting mostly from retired army veterans. Their actual strength, according to Hayashi, amounted to that of a mere eight normal Divisions, while their weapons and equipment were even more ill-prepared. Itō Masanori, a well-known military historian, dubbed it “the toothless army that cannot bite.” Even the vice chief of staff of the Kwantung Army, Major General Matsumura Tomokatsu, declared that the Kwantung Army was reduced to “a Paper Tiger” by the end of 1944. Japan was totally defenseless in Manchuria.

    The primary mission of the Kwantung Army was from the outset to defend Manchuria at all cost. But as soon as Russia declared war against Japan on August 8, 1945, the Kwantung Army was ordered to abandon Manchuria. On August 10, the Kwantung Army received a new operation order from the Army Headquarters in Tokyo which, according to Matsumura Tomokatsu, the vice chief of staff of the Kwantung Army, consisted of just two points: 1) “The objective of the Army Headquarters is to complete successfully the main operation against the United States, but because the Soviet Army attacked unexpectedly, your mission is to undertake an entirely new operation to destroy the Soviet troops in order to preserve the national polity and to defend and secure the Imperial Land”; and 2) “The Commander-in-chief of the Kwantung Army should direct its main operation against the Soviet and destroy the enemy as it encounters it in order to protect and secure Korea.”

    Although it is not easy to grasp the meaning of this convoluted text, Matsumura offers further explanation. With this order, according to Matsumura, the Kwantung Army was given for the first time the new mission of “defending and securing the Imperial Land.” In other words, according to Matsumura, “the Kwantung Army was relieved of its original mission of defending Manchuria” and was “reassigned to take part in defending and securing the Imperial Land, for which it will bring the [Japanese] Army of Korea under its command.” Matsumura further explains: Previously, the Kwantung Army was prepared to die at Donghua (in Southern Manchuria), but with the new order, “we were to fight until death defending Keijō (Seoul).” As soon as the Soviet Union declared war, Japan decided to abandon Manchuria, conceding it to Russia, and to concentrate its efforts to defend the Japanese homeland, which includes Korea.

    From the above, it is quite clear that the Imperial Japanese Army knew that they had already lost the war in China from the day the Soviet Red Army invaded Manchuria on August 8, 1945. The Japanese would issue a new order on August 10, 1945, just two days later, commanding the Kwantung Army to abandon Manchuria to the Soviet (and Chinese) Communists in favor of defending Korea and Japan. The same thing would have applied to the China Expeditionary Army holed up in Northeast China following the defeat and surrender of the Kwantung Army in Manchuria. With the support of the Soviet Red Army, the Chinese Communists would have easily defeated the remnants of the Imperial Japanese Army in Northeast China which would imply the end of the war in China. Meanwhile, the Chinese Nationalist Army would have captured Canton from the retreating Japanese which would have shortened the American supply-lines to China. But that would have been too little too late for the Chinese Nationalists in Southern China as the Chinese Communists would have secured control of Northern China by the end of 1945. To make matters worse, war material intended for the Chinese Nationalist Army would have to be diverted to the American invasion of Japan, starting on November 1, 1945.

    That was the dilemma faced by the Yanks on August 10, 1945 after the two atomic bombings during the four days prior failed to force the Japanese to surrender. Between August 10 and 15, someone convinced Hirohito to surrender to the Yanks. Methinks that MacArthur bypassed Truman and interceded on behalf of the Yanks to promise Hirohito immunity from war crimes prosecution. In other words, the Yanks wanted not so much to fight but to end the war in Japan by offering to protect Hirohito from war crimes prosecution. That secret deal clinched Hirohito’s surrender and instantly turned him into a Cold War Ally of the USA. WWII was finally over while the Cold War has just begun.

  218. antibeast says:
    @antibeast

    Oh, one last thing about the much ballyhooed ‘American victory over Japan’ in WWII. The wartime reality was such that the Americans were not in a position to defeat the Imperial Japanese Army in China, Korea and Japan because they were stuck in the Philippines due to MacArthur’s obsession to fulfill his promise to Filipinos to return to the Philippines. The closest the Americans got to Japan was Okinawa where they suffered heavy casualties.

    By contrast, the Soviet Red Army had amassed 1.6M troops which invaded Manchuria, North Korea, South Sakhalin and the Kuril Islands by August 1945. Stalin could have invaded Korea and Japan but didn’t due to the two American atomic bombings which forced him to stop short of the 38th parallel in Korea and the Kuril Islands in Japan. While Hirohito surrendered to the Yanks, the Imperial Japanese Army never did which remained undefeated and undeterred by the firebombings of Tokyo (and other Japanese cities) as well as the two atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

    As to who really won WW2 in East Asia, the Chinese recovered ALL their territories lost to Japan except for Diaoyu Islands while Japan is still under US military occupation to this day. In China, the Second Sino-Japanese War has long been over since 1945 with the Chinese Communists emerging as the final victors in the ensuing Chinese Civil War which the Chinese Nationalists lost by retreating to Taiwan. In some sense, the right-wing Japanese neo-fascists feel that WW2 is still not over for them as the US military continues to occupy Japan while Russia yet to sign a peace treaty ending the war. This geopolitical fact explains their sour grapes when it comes to their vainglorious attempts to whitewash their wartime atrocities during WWII, the final chapter of which has yet to be written by its true victims, the Chinese and Southeast Asians, as well as Western POWs. That last chapter would finally close the book on WWII.

    • Thanks: littlereddot
  219. @antibeast

    Well, many a Yank will boast that without their D-Day landings, Europe would now be speaking German.

    But when it is pointed out that 4 out of 5 German casualties were at the hands of the Soviets, they would inevitable scramble to give a butthurt, desperate argument to save their sense of saviourhood.

    It is clear to me that the most powerful weapon that the US has is not their atomic weapons, it is Hollywood and their propaganda machine.

    • LOL: Deep Thought
    • Replies: @antibeast
  220. antibeast says:
    @littlereddot

    The Yanks did land in Normandy and fought the German Nazis on their way to Berlin which qualifies as warfare, unlike in Japan where they decided to firebomb and nuke Japanese civilians which qualify as war crimes. In East Asia, the Yanks hardly fought except for two battles — Iwo Jima and Okinawa — against the Imperial Japanese Army and that was it. By contrast, the Chinese — both Nationalists and Communists — fought far more battles while the Soviet Red Army fought the biggest battles against the IJA which lost the war by attrition over eight long years. Had Hirohito not surrendered to the Yanks, the Japanese would be speaking Russian today. That’s how close to Japan the Soviet Red Army had reached after invading the Kuril Islands.

    Anyway, my point is that the Yanks didn’t win the war by achieving a military victory over the Imperial Japanese Army which had prepared to fight to the last man in Japan but they did manage to end the war by entering into a ‘Cold War’ alliance with Emperor Hirohito who had agreed to surrender to them in exchange for immunity from war crimes prosecution. That would explain the bizarre behavior of Yanks like General Douglas ‘I Shall Return’ MacArthur — War Hero of the Pacific — who went out of his way to protect Emperor Hirohito and his Imperial Family during the Tokyo Trials. Here’s a video on how the Yanks deliberately sabotaged the Tokyo Trials:

    To this day, the Yanks go out of their way to sanitize Hirohito and his Imperial Family because that was their quid-pro-quo back then as it is today: “if you join us, then we will save your ass!”

    • Replies: @littlereddot
  221. @antibeast

    This geopolitical fact explains their sour grapes when it comes to their vainglorious attempts to whitewash their wartime atrocities during WWII, the final chapter of which has yet to be written by its true victims, the Chinese and Southeast Asians, as well as Western POWs. That last chapter would finally close the book on WWII.

    Yep!

    https://www.unz.com/pescobar/bamboo-diplomacy-the-china-se-asia-romance/#comment-5667045

  222. @antibeast

    Anyway, my point is that the Yanks didn’t win the war by achieving a military victory over the Imperial Japanese Army

    What you say is true.

    In the big picture, the US seems to have used the strategy of letting the others kill themselves off first (purported “allies” included), then coming in late to claim the prizes. Them dishonorable sneaky b*stards.

    This happened in both world wars, and is happening right now between NATO and Russia.

    Thankfully, if I am reading them correctly, Russia/China is aware of all of this and is turning the tables on them. In my view, the whole Ukraine thing is basically a fixing operation/feint to keep the Yanks distracted. The real war is economic. With the Global South aligning with BRICS+, the Europeans starting to get pissed with the Yanks, the signs are encouraging. I think that next spring, things will be obvious which way things are going.

    • Agree: antibeast
Current Commenter
says:

Leave a Reply - Comments on articles more than two weeks old will be judged much more strictly on quality and tone


 Remember My InformationWhy?
 Email Replies to my Comment
$
Submitted comments have been licensed to The Unz Review and may be republished elsewhere at the sole discretion of the latter
Commenting Disabled While in Translation Mode
Subscribe to This Comment Thread via RSS Subscribe to All Pepe Escobar Comments via RSS
PastClassics
From the Leo Frank Case to the Present Day
The Surprising Elements of Talmudic Judaism
Analyzing the History of a Controversial Movement