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A Saigon Moment Looms in Kabul
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A Taliban fighter holds a rocket-propelled grenade (RPG) along the roadside in Herat, Afghanistan’s third biggest city, after government forces pulled out the day before following weeks of being under siege, August 13, 2021. Photo: AFP
A Taliban fighter holds a rocket-propelled grenade (RPG) along the roadside in Herat, Afghanistan’s third biggest city, after government forces pulled out the day before following weeks of being under siege, August 13, 2021. Photo: AFP

August 12, 2021. History will register it as the day the Taliban, nearly 20 years after 9/11 and the subsequent toppling of their 1996-2001 reign by American bombing, struck the decisive blow against the central government in Kabul.

In a coordinated blitzkrieg, the Taliban all but captured three crucial hubs: Ghazni and Kandahar in the center, and Herat in the west. They had already captured most of the north. As it stands, the Taliban control 14 (italics mine) provincial capitals and counting.

First thing in the morning, they took Ghazni, which is situated around 140 kilometers from Kabul. The repaved highway is in good condition. Not only are the Taliban moving closer and closer to Kabul: for all practical purposes they now control the nation’s top artery, Highway 1 from Kabul to Kandahar via Ghazni.

That in itself is a strategic game-changer. It will allow the Taliban to encircle and besiege Kabul simultaneously from north and south, in a pincer movement.

Kandahar fell by nightfall after the Taliban managed to breach the security belt around the city, attacking from several directions.

In Ghazni, provincial governor Daoud Laghmani cut a deal, fled and then was arrested. In Kandahar, provincial governor Rohullah Khanzada – who belongs to the powerful Popolzai tribe – left with only a few bodyguards.

He opted to engage in an elaborate deal, convincing the Taliban to allow the remaining military to retreat to Kandahar airport and be evacuated by helicopter. All their equipment, heavy weapons and ammunition should be transferred to the Taliban.

Afghan Special Forces represented the cream of the crop in Kandahar. Yet they were only protecting a few select locations. Now their next mission may be to protect Kabul. The final deal between the governor and the Taliban should be struck soon. Kandahar has indeed fallen.

An Afghan soldier keeps watch after US forces left Bagram Airfield in Afghanistan on July 5, 2021. Photo: AFP / Anadolu Agency / Haroon Sabawoon
An Afghan soldier keeps watch after US forces left Bagram Airfield in Afghanistan on July 5, 2021. Photo: AFP / Anadolu Agency / Haroon Sabawoon

In Herat, the Taliban attacked from the east while notorious former warlord Ismail Khan, leading his militia, put up a tremendous fight from the west. The Taliban progressively conquered the police HQ, “liberated” prison inmates and laid siege to the governor’s office.

Game over: Herat has also fallen with the Taliban now controlling the whole of Western Afghanistan, all the way to the borders with Iran.

Tet Offensive, remixed

Military analysts will have a ball deconstructing this Taliban equivalent to the 1968 Tet Offensive in Vietnam. Satellite intel may have been instrumental: it’s as if the whole battlefield progress had been coordinated from above.

Yet there are some quite prosaic reasons for the success of the onslaught apart from strategic acumen: corruption in the Afghan National Army (ANA); total disconnect between Kabul and battlefield commanders; lack of American air support; the deep political divide in Kabul itself.

In parallel, the Taliban had been secretly reaching out for months, through tribal connections and family ties, offering a deal: don’t fight us and you will be spared.

Add to it a deep sense of betrayal by the West felt by those connected with the Kabul government, mixed with fear of Taliban revenge against collaborationists.

A very sad subplot, from now on, concerns civilian helplessness – felt by those who consider themselves trapped in cities that are now controlled by the Taliban. Those that made it before the onslaught are the new Afghan IDPs, such as the ones who set up a refugee camp in the Sara-e-Shamali park in Kabul.

A new generation of IDPs in Afghanistan. Image: Supplied
A new generation of IDPs in Afghanistan. Image: Supplied

Rumors were swirling in Kabul that Washington had suggested to President Ashraf Ghani to resign, clearing the way for a ceasefire and the establishment of a transitional government.

On the record, what’s established is that US Secretary of State Antony Blinken and Pentagon chief Lloyd Austin promised Ghani to “remain invested” in Afghan security.

Reports indicate the Pentagon plans to redeploy 3,000 troops and Marines to Afghanistan and another 4,000 to the region to evacuate the US Embassy and US citizens in Kabul.

The alleged offer to Ghani actually originated in Doha – and came from Ghani’s people, as I confirmed with diplomatic sources.

The Kabul delegation, led by Abdullah Abdullah, the chairman of something called the High Council for National Reconciliation, via Qatar mediation, offered the Taliban a power-sharing deal as long as they stop the onslaught. There’s been no mention of Ghani resigning, which is the Taliban’s number one condition for any negotiation.

The extended troika in Doha is working overtime. The US lines up immovable object Zalmay Khalilzad, widely mocked in the 2000s as “Bush’s Afghan.” The Pakistanis have special envoy Muhammad Sadiq and ambassador to Kabul Mansoor Khan.

The Russians have the Kremlin’s envoy to Afghanistan, Zamir Kabulov. And the Chinese have a new Afghan envoy, Xiao Yong.

Russia-China-Pakistan are negotiating with a Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) frame of mind: all three are permanent members. They emphasize a transition government, power-sharing, and recognition of the Taliban as a legitimate political force.

Diplomats are already hinting that if the Taliban topple Ghani in Kabul, by whatever means, they will be recognized by Beijing as the legitimate rulers of Afghanistan – something that will set up yet another incendiary geopolitical front in the confrontation against Washington.

As it stands, Beijing is just encouraging the Taliban to strike a peace agreement with Kabul.

Afghan President Ashraf Ghani gestures as he speaks during a gathering to assess the general security situation in Jalalabad on March 3, 2020. Photo: AFP / Noorullah Shirzada
Afghan President Ashraf Ghani gestures as he speaks during a gathering to assess the general security situation in Jalalabad on March 3, 2020. Photo: AFP / Noorullah Shirzada

The Pashtunistan riddle

Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan has minced no words as he stepped into the fray. He confirmed the Taliban leadership told him there’s no negotiation with Ghani in power – even as he tried to persuade them to reach for a peace deal.

Khan accused Washington of regarding Pakistan as “useful” only when it comes to pressing Islamabad to use its influence over the Taliban to broker a deal – without considering the “mess” the Americans left behind.

Khan once again said he “made it very clear” there will be no US military bases in Pakistan.

This is a very good analysis of how hard it is for Khan and Islamabad to explain Pakistan’s complex involvement with Afghanistan to the West and also the Global South.

The key issues are quite clear:

  1. Pakistan wants a power-sharing deal and is doing what it can in Doha, along the extended troika, to reach it.
  2. A Taliban takeover will lead to a new influx of refugees and may encourage jihadis of the al-Qaeda, TTP and ISIS-Khorasan kind to destabilize Pakistan.
  3. It was the US that legitimized the Taliban by striking an agreement with them during the Donald Trump administration.
  4. And because of the messy withdrawal, the Americans reduced their leverage – and Pakistan’s – over the Taliban.

The problem is Islamabad simply does not manage to get these messages across.

And then there are some bewildering decisions. Take the AfPak border between Chaman (in Pakistan’s Balochistan) and Spin Boldak (in Afghanistan).

Pakistani soldiers (R) check stranded Afghan nationals at the Pakistan-Afghanistan border crossing point in Chaman on August 13, 2021, after the Taliban took control of the Afghan border town in a rapid offensive across the country. Photo: AFP
Pakistani soldiers (R) check stranded Afghan nationals at the Pakistan-Afghanistan border crossing point in Chaman on August 13, 2021, after the Taliban took control of the Afghan border town in a rapid offensive across the country. Photo: AFP

The Pakistanis closed their side of the border. Every day tens of thousands of people, overwhelmingly Pashtun and Baloch, from both sides cross back and forth alongside a mega-convoy of trucks transporting merchandise from the port of Karachi to landlocked Afghanistan. To shut down such a vital commercial border is an unsustainable proposition.

All of the above leads to arguably the ultimate problem: what to do about Pashtunistan?

The absolute heart of the matter when it comes to Pakistan’s involvement in Afghanistan and Afghan interference in the Pakistani tribal areas is the completely artificial, British Empire-designed Durand Line.

Islamabad’s definitive nightmare is another partition. Pashtuns are the largest tribe in the world and they live on both sides of the (artificial) border. Islamabad simply cannot admit a nationalist entity ruling Afghanistan because that will eventually foment a Pashtun insurrection in Pakistan.

ORDER IT NOW

And that explains why Islamabad prefers the Taliban compared to an Afghan nationalist government. Ideologically, conservative Pakistan is not that dissimilar from the Taliban positioning. And in foreign policy terms, the Taliban in power perfectly fit the unmovable “strategic depth” doctrine that opposes Pakistan to India.

In contrast, Afghanistan’s position is clear-cut. The Durand Line divides Pashtuns on both sides of an artificial border. So any nationalist government in Kabul will never abandon its desire for a larger, united Pashtunistan.

As the Taliban are de facto a collection of warlord militias, Islamabad has learned by experience how to deal with them. Virtually every warlord – and militia – in Afghanistan is Islamic.

Even the current Kabul arrangement is based on Islamic law and seeks advice from an Ulema council. Very few in the West know that Sharia law is the predominant trend in the current Afghan constitution.

Afghan Taliban militants and villagers pray in Alingar district of Laghman Province on March 2, 2020. Photo: AFP / Noorullah Shirzada
Afghan Taliban militants and villagers pray in Alingar district of Laghman Province on March 2, 2020. Photo: AFP / Noorullah Shirzada

Closing the circle, ultimately all members of the Kabul government, the military, as well as a great deal of civil society come from the same conservative tribal framework that gave birth to the Taliban.

Apart from the military onslaught, the Taliban seem to be winning the domestic PR battle because of a simple equation: they portray Ghani as a NATO and US puppet, the lackey of foreign invaders.

And to make that distinction in the graveyard of empires has always been a winning proposition.

(Republished from Asia Times by permission of author or representative)
 
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  1. Jim H says:

    ‘On the record, what’s established is that US Secretary of State Antony Blinken and Pentagon chief Lloyd Austin promised Ghani to “remain invested” in Afghan security.’ — Pepe Escobar

    Today, the US is bragging about its capacity to ‘evacuate thousands’ per day from Kabul.

    Take that, you half-baked insurgents: WE RULE.

  2. Unit472 says:

    I couldn’t care less who does what in Afghanistan. I just hope the Taliban can overrun Kabul before those US troops can deploy and Biden fly ‘our Afghans’ to the US. I don’t want those cowards and losers here. Better to have them die in a bloodbath as a lesson to buying into the schemes of US military and State Department careerists.

  3. El Dato says:

    A merger between Afghanistan and Pakistan would be awesome, something right out of Dune, just w/o any tech more advanced than nukes.

    Also, if you cross Rommel and a Taliban do you get a Romulan?

  4. Good article, except for this blunder:

    Military analysts will have a ball deconstructing this Taliban equivalent to the 1968 Tet Offensive in Vietnam.

    Surely the author meant the 1975 Spring offensive. John Bolton announced the Taliban were defeated yet we lacked the will to stay a bit longer to ensure peace, just like the myth created a few years after Vietnam fell — to the Vietnamese.

  5. Notsofast says:

    “operation total chaos” going entirely as planned. this is the geopolitical equivalent of leaving a flaming bag of dog shit on the doorstep of iran and pakistan, ringing the doorbell and running like hell.

    • Replies: @Arthur MacBride
    , @moi
  6. @Unit472

    The sooner Kabul falls the fewer Afghans can flee; pretty clear what to root for. Get ‘er done!

  7. “besiege Kabul”. That

    won’t be necessary. Taliban

    will walk in with little or no resistance from

    the Jew S puppet regime. At the most

    our ZOG will use it as an opportunity to

    bring another few thousand sandniggers

    to ‘Murka.

    • Agree: AnonfromTN, Ray Caruso
    • Replies: @Alfa158
    , @Dave Bowman
  8. Alfa158 says:
    @Haxo Angmark

    The US has to date opened up 26,500 visas for Afghan collaborators, and 20,000 have already been processed. If, as I’m guessing, each visa also covers the family members, it looks like roughly around 100,000 people.

  9. TKK says:

    FYI:

    I am not sure why, but military contractors in Kabul are not worried. They never left. Smaller bases have been doing contract close out, but have no immediate demo papers right now. They are not evacuating. Day to Day operations carry on as usual, and there is not even heightened security.

    Apparently the “Taliban” have been taking over these Northern areas for months. It is not news to anyone in country, in “theater”, as they call it.

    Another false flag event to distract?

    • Replies: @frankie p
    , @notbe
  10. Turk 152 says:

    Who will liberate Afghans heroin now?

    • LOL: Notsofast
    • Replies: @WJ
    , @Frank Frivilous
  11. SafeNow says:
    @Alfa158

    Are they actually “translators” or is that mainly a cover story? Simultaneous interpretation requires significant intelligence and education. Or were they mainly dishwashers etc. at military bases. One can argue whether both kinds of people should be equally rescue-worthy. In any case, the US government should tell the truth about the numbers, quantitatively, right now. I remember when the migrants were marching into Germany a few years ago. Every guy the liberal media interviewed claimed to be a “mechanical engineer.” it didn’t work out that way, of course.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    , @Carroll Price
  12. TG says:
    @Alfa158

    Only 100,000? Oh we are just getting warmed up. Never mind that most of these ‘refugees’ were probably working for the other side, cheap labor is where you find it.

    • Replies: @Alfa158
  13. is not Kabul too far inland for helicopter evacuation? it must be by airplane? to what base?

    2) The US embassy is 14-25 acres, I have read.

    How big is the Green Zone in Kabul? does such a zone even exist?

  14. @Jim H

    “Now why not take on someone our own size –perhaps both China and Russia combinced and see US win hands down !!!” and Sergeant Slim knows his warfare inside out and back again…..

  15. ruralguy says:

    We spent \$2 trillion over the past 20 years fighting the Afghanistan war, with 2,400 American service members killed. We trained 352,000 soldiers in the Afghan military, giving them some of the best military equipment in the world. The estimated size of the Taliban military is 60,000 to 85,000 soldiers, but at any moment in time they could field only 10,000 soldiers, with only 2,000 to 3,000 of them highly motivated. So, we spent \$2 trillion to fight an army of 2,000 to 85,000 illiterate peasants and lost. We then spent a fortune training 352,000 Afghan troops, who likely outnumbered the motivated Taliban more than 100 to 1, but this U.S. trained Afghan military lost in one week, in a complete rout. The incompetence of our government is just off the scale.

  16. Anon[119] • Disclaimer says:

    Small Hat Mission accomplished

    1) CIA Drug running skimmed a trillion or so in loot over 20 years
    2) a big population country destroyed
    3) Wack jobs in charge of destroyed country
    4) Billions of waste, mismanagement, and fraud flowed to Beltway bandits

    • Agree: Druid55
  17. Surprisingly very little coverage of the Afghan situation on veterans.com: nothing in the “headlines”, “news”,” what’s hot”; just one three day old article stuck under “government”. southfront.org does much better.

    • Replies: @republic
  18. El Dato says:

    Little Kandahar is definitely coming.

    Hey, whoever thought a George Lucas-style “War with No Consequences” is actually a feature of the real world?

    A step towards solving the problem that Canada wants warm bodies:

    Canada vows to resettle 20,000 Afghans, including embassy staff & aid workers, amid fears of Taliban reprisals

    The Canadian government has pledged to evacuate and resettle 20,000 Afghans, including women, aid workers and diplomatic staff, citing concerns about Taliban reprisals as the militant group overruns cities across Afghanistan.

    Immigration Minister Marco Mendicino announced the move on Friday, telling reporters that Ottawa would do its best to bring thousands of vulnerable Afghans to safety in Canada, though he gave no timetable for how long that could take.

    It better take about a week.

    “As the Taliban continues to take over more of Afghanistan, many more Afghans’ lives are under increasing threat,” he said, later sharing a photo of a plane carrying refugees that landed in Canada.

    Defense Minister Harjit Sajjan

    Why is there a “Canadian” Defense Minister Harjit Sajjan?

    also noted that Canadian special forces would help to relocate Afghans,

    In the last 20 years, I have gotten the impression that “special forces” are actually “forces” and that “non-special forces” are basically elements that are propping up desks, are used for decoration or ensure that someone is potemkinetically animating expensive material that someone else is getting top taxpayer dollar for.

    saying the “challenges on the ground are quite immense,” but offered few other details. His comments followed a series of reports on Thursday night that the government would send a small contingent of special operators to the Canadian Embassy to assist with the evacuation of staff, though the officials cited did not provide exact numbers for the deployment.

  19. “Even the current Kabul arrangement is based on Islamic law and seeks advice from an Ulema council. Very few in the West know that Sharia law is the predominant trend in the current Afghan constitution.”

    Unz commentator and self styled expert on Korea Rich does not know this, for one.

    • LOL: showmethereal
    • Replies: @rehman
  20. @El Dato

    A merger between Pakistan, historically controlled by a set of Punjabis, mostly feudal landowners, and Afghanistan would be an impossibility. The Afghans would never buckle down to be ruled over by Pakistanis any more than they submitted to Amerikastan.

    Vivisection of Pakistan with the historically Afghan Pashtun areas around Peshawar rejoining Afghanistan is also extremely unlikely, even in the most far fetched scenario of Pakistan disintegrating completely. My Pakistani Pashtun friends tell me that Pakistani Pashtuns speak different dialects from Afghan Pashtuns, have increasingly little in common with them, and tribal divisions still prevent them from ever uniting anyway.

    An Afghanistan united, at least as a loose confederation of tribes and ethnicities, under a Talib Emir is about the best one can hope for.

    • Replies: @PJ London
  21. Ross23 says:

    The whole point of the invasion was to get a foothold in Central Asia, with Iraq the Middle East.

    So the neighboring Stans will now look for Russian protection and China will trade rare earths with the Taliban.

    A vast area of the earth’s surface from the med with Syria to pacific China will now be anti US.

    What a gift to Russia and China

    What a total fuck up

  22. I’m looking forward to the Afghan equivalent of this:


    The Taliban blitz actually has very little in common with the North Vietnamese 1975 offensive, which was a conventional military offensive carried out by a professional army (the NVPA) with very little Vietcong guerrilla activity. The Taliban spent many years taking countryside around cities, recruiting from local tribes, and suborning warlord militias. They therefore didn’t have to launch an offensive with huge columns of easily interdicted vehicles. They just moved in on the cities from the surrounding country, after having already prepared the ground via family connections, tribal elders, and promises of immunity (which they have largely kept). Soldiers with zero faith in the foreign imposed puppet regime, led by a foreign citizen, had no intention of dying for it. Unlike the defeated and routed ARVN in 1975, the so called Afghan Army didn’t have to be defeated; it just refused to fight.

    It will be interesting to see if the Ghani regime makes a last stand in Kabul, and what happens then. My bet if that happens is on a military coup to remove Ghani and open surrender talks.

    • Replies: @One-off
  23. Come Mister Taliban, tally me opium
    Daylight come and we wanna come home

    Well at least the world gets to receive more cheap dope to cloud the masses Brian.

    The globalist are partying like it’s Obama 100th birthday party.

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
  24. GMC says:

    The USG will do the same thing to the American populace as they did to the South Vietnamese , Afghanistan and others. They will leave the Americans High and Dry – too.

  25. jihadijew says:

    End of gravy train for contractors, family members of key politicians in both parties, highly paid mercenaries etc. Beginning of new useless analysis of what went wrong in Afghanistan. A war that was motivated by global future politics and domestic agenda.

    I wonder how Fatso Richard Armitage, former deputy secretary of state, is reacting to current events. This is the guy who used to brag of bombing Afghanistan into stone ages without realizing Afghanistan was already in stone ages. A typical Zionist bully.

    https://www.haaretz.com/1.5412978

    • Thanks: Bill Jones
  26. gatobart says:

    Time to check the structural resistance of the roof of that U.S. Embassy .

  27. Afghanistan’s very own 1776 moment.

    Best wishes to all Afghans!

    • Agree: moi
  28. @Notsofast

    That’s what it looks like; against China and Russia also.
    Similar to what they did in Ukraine.

    ——

    As Pepe notes, the Durand Line is artificial/arbitrary and even pernicious in dividing Pashtuns and cannot reasonably endure long into the future.
    How this issue is resolved will be interesting. Borders may change.
    Similar ref Afghan access to the sea.
    SCO will seek best possible relations with (Taliban) Kabul in negotiations.

  29. gotmituns says:

    A Saigon Moment Looms in Kabul
    ————————————–
    I’ve seen pictures of Taliban with our Humvees and other of our gear. I’m sure Ratheon, Boeing, and all the other lousy military industrial complex bums are running around giving each other “high fives” – they get to sell our shitbird government more gear. After all, it’s never about “winning or losing”. It’s always about selling their products.

  30. notbe says:
    @Unit472

    Your opinion is kind of brutal but it does have an absolutely compelling logic-look what happened when the somalis were brought over-their culture was way to backward which meant the next generation of somali-americans became ultra-left as a form of mental compensation and now we have ultra-left somalis setting up laws which legacy americans have to obey and follow…the scramble for america indeed

    …and true enough a bloodbath would be a dose of reality to any natives throughout the world who dream that following the dictates of obviously incompetent american careerists is the easy road to success and riches

    nevertheless, i doubt the talibs can take Kab quick enough to forestall the deployment of US forces on their traditional refugee rescue mission-get ready for the arrival of 200 thousand refugees then

    Those 200 thousand will become 2 million in a generation and they, and their various non-legacy ethnic allies, will set the rules

    Oh well, at least we know that George W and the neocons will burn in Hell once they pass, thats a minor compensation for all of us

    • Replies: @gotmituns
  31. snake says:
    @Jim H

    But has anyone defined Afghan security? Security has a regulated domestic self vs a valid defence against all non self set of connotations? Security also has a defended class connotation, is everyone in the lost of coral to be defended by security in the same way and with the same degree of attention?

    Security is infrastructure (food, housing, work, education, health care, transportation) and informed governed masses (capable to participate in a society which offers to everyone, well understood, well defined, uniformly enforced laws (rule of law)) concern, together with adequate means, available to the responsible, to enforce the laws, and to deny outside influence, invasion, and sanctions, of whatever kind, from all domestic or outside influence or force?

    The biggest element in security is control of the propaganda the dependent governed masses are allowed to experience. Ordinarily, propaganda is controlled by private non state interest and is locally tailored to suit those with the most influence.

    Security basically is the essence of nation state sovereignty. To secure to the government of Afghanistan its sovereignty could easily be more costly to its guarantors than just waring against the resident enemies of the state. It could consume more resources depending on how it is defined and how it is implemented than anything yet committed.

    I don’t see how taking those sequestered within <= the lost-out Taliban controlled coral] from the Taliban secured nation state is remaining in Afghan Security. The take out <=of those inside of the coral, suggest the question whose security is being defended by this giant airlift operation?

  32. frankie p says:
    @TKK

    Fool. These are provincial capitals and the dates the Taliban took control. Western countries, the US at the head of the queue, are hurrying to send troops to evacuate their citizens from Kabul. After the B-52 bombers out of Qatar attacked Taliban forces just a week ago, I would think it would be fair game for the Taliban to exact revenge from any Americans remaining in Kabul, military or civilian.

    [MORE]

    August 6 – Zaranji (Nimruz)
    August 7 – Sheberghan (Jowzjan)
    August 8 – Kunduz (Kunduz)
    August 8 – Sar-e Pol (Sar-e Pol)
    August 8 – Talquan (Takhar)
    August 9 – Aybak (Samangan)
    August 10 – Farah (Farah)
    August 10 – Pul-i Khumri (Baghlan)
    August 11 – Faizabad (Badakhshan)
    August 12 – Ghazni (Ghazni)
    August 12 – Kandahar (Kandahar)
    August 12 – Herat (Herat)
    August 12 – Qala-e-Naw (Badghis)
    August 13 – Lashkar Gah (Helmand)
    August 13 – Tirin kot (Uruzgan)
    August 13 – Chaghcharan (Ghor)
    August 13 – Pul-e Alim (Logar)
    August 13 – Qalat (Zabul)

    • Replies: @TKK
  33. @Alfa158

    The US is barking mad. And evil.

  34. MLK says:

    No one seems to be able to address, let alone provide a credible answer for the salient question, why did the wheels come off the Afghanistan withdrawal so quickly and so humiliatingly for the US?

    After all, the Bush administration and even President Bush himself, essentially abdicated on Afghanistan (and pretty much everything else) well before Obama was installed.

    Despite his campaign rhetoric, Obama was Bush 3.0 and 4.0 on Afghanistan.

    Trump willingly expended political capital to end the Afghan War and withdraw. Starting in the 2016 campaign he freed the (expanded) Republican Party base from the despicable trap the Bush Neocons had it in and Obama et. al. fully exploited with establishment Republican complicity. In short, the Democrats became the War Party for free. That’s why the Neocon filth were part of “Trump Must Go!” from the beginning.

    Yet Trump didn’t relent. He methodically and relentlessly worked to end the endless wars through negotiation despite it fueling already raging efforts to destroy his presidency regardless of the cost to the national interest.

    As Trump kept pointing out, he had succeeded in converting the American occupation into a “police action,” with no KIA or injuries in combat to speak of. This despite the anti-Trump alignment, including not the least within the USG, doing everything they could to make it a deadly failure. They even trafficked in the Russian bounties lie in only the latest gambit to kill American personnel to blame on Trump to exploit in the election.

    So, ask yourself, why didn’t they let Trump be Nixon/Saigon if that is what our withdrawal was fated to be, during his run for reelection no less?

    And, why are the foreign and domestic powers that be that installed the illegitimate “Yeltsin” humiliating the US over Afghanistan when “Biden” continues to gift them everything they’ve wanted and more?

    Perhaps for Obama et. al., national humiliation while destroying the American Project from all sides is a feature not a bug.

    • Replies: @Old and Grumpy
    , @W
  35. Unit472 says:
    @Alfa158

    A cream faced talking head named Ned Price from State was on CNN yesterday and said just 1200 Afghan collaborators had been admitted to the US. How many more the US will be able to get out is uncertain. If 3000 US troops are to be brought in by the end of the weekend there might be 3000 seats out at of Kabul on those same military transports but I would suggest getting US citizens and Embassy staff out will have priority.

    It is also the case that domestic flights from Kandahar, Herat etc are no longer available so any US collaborators or dependents caught in those cities are not going to be able to get to Kabul. In addition with remaining Embassy staff now busy burning documents and destroying computers processing Afghan visa requests is not a high priority.

    Depending on how fast and hard the Taliban move on Kabul there may not be either the time or ability to get Afghan ”interpreters” to the airport and on planes to the US. With no Turkish troops showing up to secure the airport and no ‘diplomatic’ agreement to allow that airport to keep operating the big danger is that Biden is landing 3000 US POWs or hostages into Kabul with no way to get them back out.

    • Replies: @InnerCynic
  36. Perhaps in a political sense it can be compared to Saigon if this is in fact the closing act which remains to be seen. I doubt it.. I do believe it is rather obtuse to call it a “War” in the same sense as past wars in which tens of thousands died often draftees. Afghanistan is more like a twenty year occupation with our casualties being absorbed by random acts of resistance.
    Oddly it certainly was a different kind of war, I never heard of a tank battle, air to air combat , artillery duels or like in Vietnam instances in which 6 choppers were shot down in a single day and hundreds over the course of a single. See the millennial generation doesn’t know what a real war is and that is to our peril…
    World War 2, Korea and Vietnam were in fact wars that involved fighting armies We were fighting in those places for significantly less amounts of time but yet sustained significant higher casualties often suffered by many who didn’t volunteer for it unlike this Afghanistan business. Kabul to Saigon is comparing apples to oranges and frankly insults Vietnam vets.

    • Agree: Old and Grumpy
  37. @ruralguy

    The stupid USers weren’t “fighting the Afghanistan war”, because it didn’t exist. They are losing the 20-year American war in Afghanistan. And they’re still having difficulty getting the name of the US war in Vietnam right. The USer should butt out of Asia. Just say no. You know it makes sense.

    • Replies: @Naughtius Maximus
  38. One-off says:

    The parallels between the United States and the late Soviet Union are eerie. The upside is the USSR collapsed rather quickly and peacefully after its humiliation in Afghanistan. The downside is the monsters and sociopaths in D.C. will lash out at its people as soon as they know the grift is over and Israel is about to fall, too.

    Heritage Americans need to familiarize themselves with what happened to the Armenians when the Ottomans knew their empire was crumbling. The difference is Heritage Americans remain a decisive majority.

    • Agree: notbe
    • Replies: @Anon
  39. gotmituns says:
    @notbe

    and true enough a bloodbath would be a dose of reality to any natives
    ——————————————————————————
    And those silly girls who bought into the American feminist BS.

  40. One-off says:
    @Fiendly Neighbourhood Terrorist

    Correct.

    The closest parallel here is the first Evil Empire’s humiliating retreat from Afghanistan closely resembles the second Evil Empire’s running away. For the MIC Afghanistan was a smashing success as it gave it a steady revenue stream for 20 years, but for the overall Empire this is the beginning of the end. Look for China to absorb Taiwan, and a frontal Iranian assault on Israel, to be followed by the dollar being replaced as the reserve currency and the United States dissolving.

  41. WJ says:
    @Turk 152

    Yes, the poppies. However , looking at the soldier’s gear, it’s no surprise we lost. He has no mobility. He is up armored to the point of overload and in the heat he is not chasing any Taliban. Casualty reduction,not fighting effectiveness is the theme here. He even has the armor cod piece.

    These guys were fighting goat farmers with old AKs and RPGs. The tali had no fighter jets,no Apaches, no UH 60s , no pain killers and crappy radios.

  42. @MLK

    It seems like the Biden administration is doing everything it can to bury the US in debt and illegal humanity. All dissenters must be politically witch hunted and jabbed. Speaking of jabs, lockdowns look inevitable for the 2022 election. Good news for the establishment of haters.

    Perhaps the US withdraw might have gone smoothly with a President Trump. They don’t want that. The US must become a failed state. Humiliating Americans with more failure and stressing the internal system with millions of new welfare recipients, all the while the dollar printing press overheats with its vroom, is a recipe for disaster. The people in DC represent the globalists and the Great Reset. We apparently won’t be allowed to make the reset cut.

    • Agree: CelestiaQuesta
    • Replies: @MLK
  43. @WJ

    This happened in Vietnam also. The Vietcong carried little bags of food, tied to their belts a nd had great mobility. They were able to move from one place to the next with almost no problems involving logistics. In any case, we do not belong in such places, which is my sincere belief.

  44. anon[972] • Disclaimer says:

    * Under pressure to quit, Afghanistan’s president pledges only to end ‘instability.’
    * As the Taliban set their sights on Kabul, some fear a collapse within weeks.
    * Canada promises refuge for 20,000 Afghans as nations scramble to evacuate.
    * Worried about the spread of Islamic extremism, China seeks good relations with the Taliban.
    * Why has the Afghan military crumbled so quickly in the face of the Taliban offensive?

    https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/08/14/world/taliban-afghanistan-news

    Line after line , word after word , these article describe the corruption , brutality of the occupation, oligarchical nature of the administration , embedded nepotism , cluelessness of the American military brass , insistent pursuing of policies despite the realities and contexts suggesting immediate 180 degree changes , and quickened pace of surrender by the Afghan army without significant fights , and the readiness of the civilians to embrace the arrival of the Taliban , NYT reach the same conclusion that is reached by Gen Petreaus, Mike Pompeo, Gen Miller , Defense minister of UK , disgraced intellectually corrupt , morally cheap Bush 2, German defense minister , idiot like Joni Ernest and Cotton ,Mike Gallagher who offer nothing but trying another 20 years if necessary to protect what have been achieved in last 20 years.
    Other than abstract woman freedom , no concrete data no visual of any achievement is presented .

    Petreus was heard on BBC saying Taliban rule was not desirable compared to a civil war engulfing Afghanistan.

    That’s a thought suggestive of war crime and crime against humanity .Only a morally repugnant swine can say that and only on a platform that has the necessary thought and idea’s boundaries to make possible for a pig express sentiment like that .

    Max Boot , Hannity , WaPo editorial , Guardian news papers , WSJ , English media in India – , Indian gov , – expressing sane combinations of frustration , indignation and despair while demanding to return of 20 years of status quo.

    Given the absence of similar virulent expression in past and distinct lack of any earlier attempt to saturate the media with same viciousness , despondency and anger it is plausible that Taliban’s quick success and certainty that civil war will not ensue are causing alarms at the war profiteering cohorts that congregate , cavort , plan , socialize together in same ideological space .

  45. @El Dato

    There won’t be a blood bath : about 100 pedophiles will be thrown down from buildings, about 100 opium-trafficking LGBT will have their throat slit, about 100 big GI-loving whores will be stoned, and that will be it. They will be busy getting rich with the difference being that they will also try to make the whole country richer, mostly by still growing the poppies but calling Chinese Big pharma to build plants to make it into legal drugs : that’s perfectly Hallal : as long as it is medical or supposedly so any drug is OK, and selling it to infidels to destroy them is also OK. They will install solar panels and send their best students study in the US.

    • Replies: @cassandra
  46. BorisMay says:

    Now the SAS has deployed to Afghanistan there will be no stopping the Taliban.

    The Taliban and UK special forces, mostly SAS and SBS, are to all intents and purposes the same element.

    The Muslim Brotherhood have offices in London UK that are essentially an embassy pretending to be a charity.

    The UK adoption of Islam, in particular Salafist Islam and the more extreme elements like ISIS, Al Quida along with the BBC funded White Helmets means that Afghanistan is more likely to become a British funded terrorist State.

    Once established the UK will launch terrorist attacks on China and Russia.

    Don’t ever think Afghanistan is or will be controlled by the Taliban.

    It will always be subservient to MI6.

    • Disagree: republic, gatobart
  47. JamesinNM says:

    Afghanistan has over three trillion dollars of minerals. The elite will control the wealth and the people will remain poor or be killed by the jab. Every ordinary Afghan person might consider departing this world with a two-fer: i.e., taking at least two of the enemy with them.

  48. Alfa158 says:
    @TG

    Yes, that might be just a start, big numbers could potentially come from family reunification, where cousins, grandparents etc. are brought in, plus an ongoing fresh stream of refugees who are fleeing a regime claiming that walls would otherwise be dropped on them.
    Based on what happened with our South East Asia disengagement, an ultimate figure of half a million might be possible. However, the main impediment is that Afghanistan is land-locked so you can’t have people cramming into boats and getting picked up at sea. If the Taliban take an approach of not caring whether people leave or stay, then all those visa holders could still get out in a slow trickle over time, instead of a stampede for the helicopters. I have no idea if the Taliban wants revenge on everyone or don’t care as long as they just leave.

  49. MLK says:
    @Old and Grumpy

    Speaking of jabs, lockdowns look inevitable for the 2022 election.

    Yup. Everyone should ask themselves why the “Biden” regime is governing as if they don’t need public support to “win” the elections in 2022 and 2024.

    • Agree: Fred777
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  50. Maddaugh says:
    @WJ

    WJ-great observation about the soldier gear. It was the same in the Nam. The average NVA/ Cong soldier might carry a floppy hat, water bottle, rice bowl and bamboo joint with some cold rice and fish heads, perhaps a spare shirt, rubber sandals, AK, a few grenades and an AK chest rig.

    We became demoralised unless we had cold beer, steaks and Thanksgiving turkey with the trimmings, delivered in the field, along with the mail, porn and newspapers.

    When I look at the load of the US soldier in Afghanistan it was a wonder the guy could even move especially in mountainous terrain. I dont even know how any can rise from the prone position with all the kit.

    As far back as the 30’s and 40’s the German Wehrmacht conducted extensive and exhaustive studies on personal equipment designing backpacks and pouches of mountain troops so they contained what they were supposed to AND NO MORE. . If I remember my stats the full load was about 20 pounds including 2.93 pounds of food representing 3 meals to be consumed only when ordered. We decided to reinvent the wheel and make it concave !

    Speed, mobility, agility and aggression in the US Army have all but disappeared. The average recruit today is in addition an overweight unfit character who does not even know what he is fighting for and will not move unless there is extensive artillery and air to cover his attack or withdrawal.

    And now to add insult to injury they must also carry red high heels, matching dresses and designer handbags in their packs.

    We now depend on technology to win but still get creamed. What will happen if in an all out conflict the technology is destroyed ? It makes a guy’s hair stand on end to think of the fallout.

    The most devastating consequence of this Afghan excursion is that the Taliban is now the second third world opponent to show the world the US can be defeated by a peasant army. The WILL to fight and stamina to endure any losses or wait any number of years will defeat the Yankee.

    The US seems to fight its wars with one had tied to their balls and the other up their ass. Its no wonder we lose.

  51. Emslander says:

    When will our intellectual elite understand what Islam means to its adherents and to the nations that are dominated by it? Afghanistan is just one of it purer examples. They will take our money and use the power we manage to confer upon them, but they will wave goodbye to us cheerfully as they take departing kill shots at our fleeing presence. Islam doesn’t buy our womanly libertine values, our “democratic” ways or our religions. They have rid themselves of our homosexual preferences in one country and they will rid themselves of us in every other country until they take aim on us in this country.

    Wake up, people!

    • Replies: @anonymous
  52. Stonewall Jackson [AKA "Joker"] says:

    Well another failed country courtesy of the US Military/Wall St/BigTech/Big Pharma/Academia/Industrial Complex…. whew… you really had to update that term in the New World Order didn’t you?

    This article prompted me to watch that infamous Army recruiting video on youtube for Emma and her Two Mommies… Did you know Emma works on a Patriot Missile battery?

    Is it any wonder that a country that produces this sort of shit, not to mention the shit Patriot Missile lost to a bunch of goat herders with AK 47s and RPGs? Simple 20th century Soviet technology beat fancy military hardware costing trillions….

    The game is up for the US…. the Deep State elites while pursuing their own interests are too shortsighted to see reality. The reality of goat herders who care about their own…

    Raise your hand if you believe in the sort of shit country that produces Emma Has Two Mommies military recruitment videos.

    • Agree: GomezAdddams
  53. Latest news is the Taliban are 10 kilometres from Kabul and Ghani’s recorded a resignation video but is hesitating about releasing it. Maybe like Hitler in the Führerbunker he’s waiting for Wenckuddin and Steinerullah to save his throne for him.

    • Replies: @Malla
  54. notbe says:
    @TKK

    yes but thats what was being said in 1975 just before Saigon fell-the Am embassy and the embassies of allies functioned normally, local branches of Western companies also worked normally just before the fall-seriously read some newspapers from that era-everyone was stressing the normalcy of the situation and the need not to panic- noone said that we are in deep doodoo

  55. notbe says:
    @ruralguy

    but seriously, aside beating the mexicans 170 years ago, has the US ever won a war without major allies?-beating the south dont count
    like Fred Reed said, war is a US hobby but we just arent very good at it

    • Replies: @gotmituns
  56. notbe says:
    @Maddaugh

    “The most devastating consequence of this Afghan excursion is that the Taliban is now the second third world opponent to show the world the US can be defeated by a peasant army. The WILL to fight and stamina to endure any losses or wait any number of years will defeat the Yankee”

    Yes incredible that the Taliban is the SECOND peasant army to beat the US

    -double incredible is the fact that this time around the peasants had NO ALLIES to help them-the Vietnamese, the first time around, could always rely on China and the Soviets

    Weird that at the turn of the millenium, idiotic French intellectuals were describing the US as a HYPER power unprecended in human history whose hegemony might last centuries-the Talibs just blew a giant rasberry at intellectual pretentiousness

  57. nsa says:

    Imagine the kind of worthless shithead collaborator who “translates” while some cretinous yank crusader or nato satrap moron threatens- tortures- beats on some hapless hooded cab driver or goat herder. Those quisling Afghans are coming to a town near you. The quislings will go on welfare, live in section 8 housing, vote reliably D, and bring over all their inbred worthless relatives at the first opportunity. And they will always harbor resentment against whites which the vile jew elites and their acolytes will use to their advantage. If only whites showed just 1/10 the courage of the Talib patriots………….never going to happen. No balls.

  58. @Maddaugh

    In Afgantsy, his book on the USSR’s experience of intervention in Afghanistan, Roderick Braithwaite mentions an ex Mujahid who’d fought against the Soviets, the Taliban, and the Americans, and he said that the Soviets were better and more honourable fighters than the Americans (honour is extremely important to Pashtunwali, Pashtun culture). The Soviets, he said, were willing to come down to the ground and fight. The Americans, in contrast, wrapped themselves in armour and sunglasses and helmets, looking like aliens, stayed in their bases, and depended on drones and air strikes to do their work for them. This was not calculated to make the ordinary Afghan respect them.

    • Agree: nokangaroos
  59. rehman says:
    @Fiendly Neighbourhood Terrorist

    I think Sharia Law is redundant.
    Sharia is Islamic Law that is what I have heard.

  60. TKK says:
    @frankie p

    My brother- a government contractor since 2006 in both Iraq &Afghanistan, emails with his co-workers many times a day and they speak on the phone.

    Believe what you like- he has no reason to lie. The Taliban has been in control of Afghanistan (save the capital) for a long time. The media is only deciding to spotlight it now. Those are the facts.

    To be sure, you are gathering your information from the media. Who gather their information from government paid advisors. But lets look at your own flawed sources. Why is there a Frontline documentary….from 2 years ago….frantcally detailing the Taliban “taking over Afghanistan.”

    This morning, Mitch McConnell is calling for air strikes. It is another diversion to detract from the (possible) fact that the governments of China and the USA unleaded a pandemic on their own populace?

    The Taliban is just an anti- government resistance that has been freshly fortified by all the resources the American government leaves there over the past years. You think this is new? The USA has packed up and left Afghanistan in increments over the past 7 years, slowly abandoning each base. (Of which there were hundreds).

    No American or Western is walking around ANYWHERE in Afghanistan for many years. Not even NGOs are on the ground in Afghanistan. Any Western or military outfit are behind fortified walls of bases in the past or behind many layers of security in Kabul now.

    You can’t cross a road in any village without permission from the local Taliban “mayors.” This has been this way for years. The Taliban brings in about \$1.5 billion US dollars per years, with real estate, opium trade and other ventures. They are a well established presence, and run the courts, security and food distribution.

    The “new” panic is not new. The Taliban run Afghanistan. They are just buttoning it up in Kabul -and the Western busy bodies don’t feel safe now.

    • Replies: @El Dato
  61. @El Dato

    I’ve always thought of the borders of Afghanistan as being the point where the surrounding countries find the people to be ungovernable.

  62. Another failed experiment in “nation building.” To expect the brown sludge of the world to become “democracies” and “Western” is a fools errand. Initially our goal was to stop Afghanistan from being used as a terrorist base. We could have done that much cheaper by buying off the tribal leaders and killing who we wanted to kill. We could have then reserved the right to intervene and splatter whatever terrorists we needed to at a time of our choosing, all without trying to recast a bunch of goat and boy fuckers in our image. IMHO this was the best and most workable solution.

    The other extreme would have been doable as well. Install a White governor, rape the country for its resources (there’s a great deal of rare-earths in Afghanistan), and cycle in young Americans to learn the facts of life about what most of the Earth and its inhabitants look like. A little more expensive, but we might have got something out of it.

    In either case, expecting these barbarians to act like Whites was the worst option.

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    , @BorisMay
  63. US almost managed to own Iran.

    Islam is tough though.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  64. @CelestiaQuesta

    Who is this Brian of which you speak?

    Maybe Monty Python could make a Bio-Pic.

    • LOL: CelestiaQuesta
    • Replies: @CelestiaQuesta
  65. Rdm says:

    Sooner or later, we’d see

    Taliban POWs competing for 2024 US Presidential candidates.

  66. @Unit472

    I’d like to know what the foreign cargo and airlines are doing. Have they bugged out?

  67. The Taliban, of course, were the last legitimate Afghan Government.
    It’s time the puppets went.

    Perhaps they could have a polo game with the heads of the traitors.

    • LOL: Ann Nonny Mouse
  68. gotmituns says:
    @notbe

    Sir, you’re looking at it from the wrong angle. The war between the states showed the world given a good cause – “freeing the slaves”, we could fight real well. The world was astounded at our Civil War. Our Civil War revolutionized warfare right up into WW2. Erwin Rommel read all our cavalry Generals campaigns and applied their tactics to his tanks.
    ——————————————————————————————————
    Having said that, Fred Reed is correct, it’s a “hobby” to us with lethal outcomes. But the concept of “winning” or “losing” doesn’t enter into our reasoning. All “war” is to us now is war games so we can test new gears/weapons systems and give out contracts to worthy military industrial club members.
    ——————————————————————————————————-
    Read “War is a Racket” by Smedley Butler, Maj. Gen., USMC (recipient of two medals of honor)

    • Replies: @notbe
    , @notbe
  69. @Bill Jones

    Brian is a cousin of Brain who should never do comments late at night after sipping ounces of bourbon.

  70. Hibernian says:
    @Carlton Meyer

    Vietnam fell to a faction among the Vietnamese that was just as dominated by the Soviets as was the RVN by us.

    • Replies: @ungdo
  71. Unit472 says:

    There are still some foreign airlines flying out of Hamid Karzai Airport (before its name is changed) Mostly going to Istanbul or some neighboring Stan and charging top dollar for a seat. Afghan airlines still flying out ( whether they’ll offer return flights is another matter). I would think fuel supplies will either run out or be stolen by corrupt Afghans.

    This is going to be epic. An Irwin Allen scale disaster movie. 4 million thieves, war profiteers and corrupt Afghan government officials with no way out about to be overrun by a horde of stinking, illiterate brutes with AK-47s. Once the killing starts there’ll be no stopping it so I hope some neutral TV crews will be their to document it.

  72. Hibernian says:
    @Alfa158

    Good, more people in the US who know what totalitarianism is really like./

  73. @Turk 152

    The preferred drug on the streets of America is now Fentanyl in it’s various forms so there will not be any financial disruptions at our end.

    • Replies: @Johnny Rico
  74. There’s a long list of US Generals between Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria who remind me of glorified third world dictators walking around littered with badges and pendants marking some imaginary heroic event where they stand behind enemy lines sipping whiskey and smoking cigars.

    These are the same pos bowing to GlobalHomo’s LGBTIQPWXYZ, Magic Negro CRT, while trillions have been spent on overpriced war toys, and playing wars games on targeted counties that don’t comply with their sick agenda.

    Go Taliban, take back your country from GlobalHomo sick perverts and Magic Negro Warlords.

    • Agree: Druid55
  75. Hibernian says:
    @SafeNow

    There are different levels of translation skills. There are those who translate for Lieutenants and Captains, and those who translate for Colonels and Generals. BTW, dishwashers and cooks tended to be US contractor personnel, and required (low level) security clearances. (They might pass on unguarded statements of senior, or key junior, personnel in the mess hall.) Also, BTW, I was there; 33rd Area Support Group, Illinois Army National Guard, Bagram Air Field, March 2oo4 – April 2005.

    Anyone who collaborated with us, including any translator, is in danger.

    • Replies: @RobinG
    , @SafeNow
  76. The ZUS was thrown into Afghanistan by the false flag attack by Israel and traitors in the ZUS governments attack on the WTC on 911, which was falsely blamed on Bin Laden and the Arabs and then the ZUS went into Afghanistan under a false narrative, to facilitate the opium trade, which was ran by the CIA and MI6 and the Mossad.

    Now with hundreds of billions of military equipment left behind, the ZUS has armed the taliban so that they can attack Iran through Irans back door, this is a repeat of the arming of the taliban which was first done to fight the Russians and now they are armed to teeth to infiltrate both Russia and Iran.

    However under Putin and his generals , the taliban is making the mistake of their lives to infiltrate and attack Russia even though they will have CIA and MI6 help in this provocation as well as in their attemps to infiltrate Iran.

    As Orwell said in his book 1984, wars are meant to destroy lives and equipment and keep the proles poor and to keep the ruling class in power. The ZUS is a perfect example of this.

    • Agree: Druid55
    • Replies: @CelestiaQuesta
    , @BorisMay
  77. RobinG says:

    A very good piece on how Afghanistan under US occupation has been used to destabilize Iran by hosting Jaish al-Adl, an anti-Iran organization whose top commander Amir Naroui was recently killed by the Taliban. A free Afghanistan could be central to having peace in the region.

    By MK Bhadrakumar
    August 14 2021
    Iran comes to terms with the Taliban
    Iran and the Taliban are turning the page on their messy history. But can the Afghan militant group that was once steeped in Wahhabi ideology govern as realists with the help of its neighbors? Tehran is cautiously optimistic.
    https://thecradle.co/Article/columns/1048

  78. RobinG says:
    @Hibernian

    Yes, and those ‘logistical contractors’ tended to be Filipino.

  79. Agent76 says:

    September 4, 2010 The Imperial Anatomy of Al-Qaeda. The CIA’s Drug-Running Terrorists and the “Arc of Crisis”

    Part 1 examines the origins of the intelligence network known as the Safari Club, which financed and organized an international conglomerate of terrorists, the CIA’s role in the global drug trade, the emergence of the Taliban and the origins of al-Qaeda.

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-imperial-anatomy-of-al-qaeda-the-cia-s-drug-running-terrorists-and-the-arc-of-crisis/20907

    August 30, 2015 THE CIA AND THE MEDIA: 50 FACTS THE WORLD NEEDS TO KNOW By Prof. James F. Tracy

    Since the end of World War Two the Central Intelligence Agency has been a major force in US and foreign news media, exerting considerable influence over what the public sees, hears and reads on a regular basis.

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-cia-and-the-media-50-facts-the-world-needs-to-know/5471956

  80. @WJ

    Who do you think are going to win a ‘Battle For America’, when a few million armed white Supremacists/domestic terrorists are joined by non white Americans and foreign mercenaries and start taking back control of Big Government run American cities/states?

    If battle harden MuJihadins can fight and withstand a twenty year war with US/NATO/Allied forces and come out winners, heavily armed American patriots should be able to take back America within a year or two.

    More than half of US armed forces and National Guard will side with us, so there’s that support.

    What are we waiting for, strategic air strikes on our infrastructure, as tanks roll through neighborhoods rounding up patriots, sending patriot command and control to a remodeled Guantanamo?

    Look what they did to January 6th patriots.

    This CW2.0 is real.

    • Replies: @El Dato
  81. The US response to the latest humiliation ?

    New sanctions on Iran …
    (((Treasury Dept))) doubles down …
    At the same time “willing to join JCPOA” …

    US foreign policy … the forked tongue of idiocy … not even Monty Python …
    R Malley, US envoy for Iran assesses Trump’s Iran policy …
    While other JCPOA signers negotiate in Vienna without USA.

    https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2021/08/13/664385/Iran-US-Oman-Treasury-sanctions-oil-Quds-Force-IRGC-Muscat-Mahmood-Rashid-Amur-Al-Habsi

  82. Rahan says:

    Ahem *tink tink tink on glass*

    • Thanks: notbe
  83. @Jim H

    You cannot kill us Americans as we will fly away before you reach Kabul. But anyway you know we are old friends and seriously, the last few years we have been talking and you know and we know.
    We are leaving all our armaments intact for your use against the Iranians and the Chinese. If possible, attack the underbelly of Russia too.
    Please beware, they will all offer you roads, dams, electricity and other modern evils like TV and Internet. Don’t accept unless you like your wives to wear mini-skirts.
    If more arms are needed then we, the US will ask Pakistan and Saudi Arabia to provide.
    Stay true, fight the foreign devils with the shiny new weapons we are leaving behind.

  84. @Desert Fox

    The few billion cash from Afghanistan opium drug trade is nothing compared to the trillion\$ changing hands through MIC/Black Operations/NGO’s/ Pay to Play/////.

    How to you distract and deflect accountability from the public?

    See (((Global Warmongers)))

  85. anonymous[108] • Disclaimer says:
    @Emslander

    What the true monotheism of Islam means to its adherents is the sublime reality that a large section of humankind has been graced by the Creator of all existence, to be liberated from the darknesses of pagan polytheist mangods-worshipping godlessness, and the mind-bending delusions which accompany such spiritual pestilences.

    The feeling is that of; what good have I done done to deserve such a blessing? The resultant exhilaration is indescribable. Most of you will never experience it. My heart breaks to think about that, truly. 😉

    All praises are due only to the Almighty One.

  86. Malla says:
    @Fiendly Neighbourhood Terrorist

    Comparing Hitler to Ghani?? The strongest resistance to the Globalists falling to their American, British and Soviet whores compared to a Ghani? WTF

    • Agree: E_Perez
  87. Malla says:
    @ruralguy

    We trained 352,000 soldiers in the Afghan military, giving them some of the best military equipment in the world.

    Oops, what was the outcome the last time this was done?

  88. @Unit472

    stolen by corrupt Afghans.

    4 million thieves, war profiteers and corrupt Afghan government officials

    a horde of stinking, illiterate brutes with AK-47s.

    Ya, really too bad the Afghans liberated their own country from globohomo …
    Just don’t know what the world is coming to these days …
    Rack and Ruin …

    Irwin Allen scale disaster movie.

    Though JB is getting past it, they may call on Felix Leiter to sort this one out.
    Everyone knows CIA are the good guys … Just keep hanging in there …

  89. Malla says:
    @Fiendly Neighbourhood Terrorist

    Reminds me of the Iraqis who said that the British were far tougher fighters than the Americans.

  90. anonymous[108] • Disclaimer says:
    @Priss Factor

    Islam is tough though.

    Yup, that is the unassailability of being on the side of Pure Monotheism. When you consider that the only logical comprehension of Divinity is that of Oneness (true Oneness, not the pathetic 3-is-one kind), it automatically follows that that One God is on the side of the true monotheists. Islam gets its toughness from that.

    The pagan polytheist spiritual pestilences of the soul you see all around the world will simply vanquish themselves in due time (I believe there are signs of that in the western world?). We simply need to wait it out, while also assisting good people everywhere to the truth of the One and only.

  91. Unit472 says:

    Mazar-i-Sharif has surrendered. Kabul is all that is left. Once Hamid Karzai airport runway is shelled that’s it. No way in or out.

  92. pol anon says:

    China will be mining rare earths in Afghanistan by 2030.

    • Replies: @El Dato
    , @notbe
  93. @Carlton Meyer

    Where’s the Cronkite of Afghanistan goddamn it

    • Replies: @Unit472
  94. SafeNow says:
    @Hibernian

    Thank you. That is interesting and important. Derb has a column today on this issue (and I made a comment about what it takes to be a high-level simultaneous interpreter).

  95. @Frank Frivilous

    No, it’s not. It is marijuana and your mom got dat fire shit.

  96. Unit472 says:
    @Grahamsno(G64)

    Hell, even Dan Rather did live reports from Afghanistan in the late 1980’s. Modern TV reporters are yellow bellied, brown nosing pansies who will only go into a war zone if they are émbedded in a US Army brigade sized unit. No ‘war correspondents’ anymore because they would have to report on what they are seeing not what they are being told.

    • Replies: @Fur baby
  97. @Fiendly Neighbourhood Terrorist

    ” . . . The Americans, in contrast, wrapped themselves in armour and sunglasses and helmets, looking like aliens, stayed in their bases, and depended on drones and air strikes to do their work for them. . . .”

    Of course, this is probably the inevitable consequence of a high-tech, lavishly equipped army. Trouble is, it erodes the fighting qualities of the individual
    soldier. . . .

  98. W says:
    @MLK

    Trump willingly expended political capital to end the Afghan War and withdraw. Starting in the 2016 campaign he freed the (expanded) Republican Party base from the despicable trap the Bush Neocons had it in and Obama et. al. fully exploited with establishment Republican complicity. In short, the Democrats became the War Party for free. That’s why the Neocon filth were part of “Trump Must Go!” from the beginning.

    Zion Don didn’t make foreign policy decisions, presidents never do, before the pos took office, people like you knew that, and if he had the agency you suggest, the he-can’t-do-anything because-he’s-surrounded-by-enemies-and-he’s just-a-helpless-victim-is-invalidated.

    If he had the power to buck the neocons he had the power secure the border, prosecute antifa, resist the vaccine/down agenda, resist the antiwhite agenda and pardon his supporters instead of the greatest traitor in history.

    Yet Trump didn’t relent. He methodically and relentlessly worked to end the endless wars through negotiation despite it fueling already raging efforts to destroy his presidency regardless of the cost to the national interest

    .

    The war was planned before Bush assumed office and the withdraw was planned before Trump left office.

    You Trumpkins are living in a fantasy.

    Why did he leave his 1/6 supporters to rot?
    Why did he pardon Pollard?
    Why did he appoint
    the swamp into positions of power?
    Why did he sign a executive order making “anti-Semitism” illegal?
    Why did he praise the clintons after the election?
    Why did he say people who commit hate crimes[against the chosen] should be killed without trial?
    Why was he supported by right-wing zionist?

    All 4d chess of course…. Except when he was a victim alone surrounded by enemies….but he was put in office by white hats in the government…

    Thats the thing about BS narratives: they are built on sand.

    • Replies: @MLK
    , @Anonymous
  99. HbutnotG says:

    For cornsakes! These days the Khyber Pass is about as important as the Cumberland gap. Hey…ever hear of an airline? A rocky useless resourceless patch full of weird looking stone age “hillbillies with turbans” and 1,000’s of sucker “green niggers” willing to waste years of their best fucking days, trapsing around aimlessly in that moonscape, doing what for, why for, nobody says. And nobody asked!

    Quietly wiring up tall buildings for detonation isn’t something widely taught in primitive places like that. Not even in their sky daddy theaters – and no seats! bring your own rug.

    • LOL: El Dato
  100. ungdo says:
    @Hibernian

    You ‘ re a little bit wrong . N. VN can be compared to Gaullist France who got much help from UK-US but non puppet in no way
    Read ” Rand in southeast Asia ” : VC are depicted as dedicacted , resilient patriots “the best with passionate intensity ” ; the
    Saigon Vietnamese as losers , who lack all conviction ( Tennyson , the Second coming )

  101. El Dato says:
    @CelestiaQuesta

    You are the extremist that they are warning us about

    Biden administration warns of threat from anti-lockdown ‘extremists’ & terrorist sympathizers marking 9/11 anniversary

    “There are people planning to … to walk on sideways” Psaki cried out before she collapsed in anguish and started to rent her clothes. Everybody fled.

    Anyway President Hologram is really angry NOW:

    Biden orders INCREASE in US presence in Afghanistan as he threatens Taliban with ‘strong’ military response if interests attacked

    “Oh please Omar let me know … should I stay or should I go?”

    Could the Taliban make a quick contract with someone nearby to provide airspace cleanliness?

    • LOL: CelestiaQuesta
    • Replies: @CelestiaQuesta
  102. notbe says:
    @gotmituns

    Ole Smed-a true and a real American hero if there ever was
    a genuine Rambo and John Wayne combined-not some stupid cowardly actor, in both cases, being paid dollars to pretend to be war hero- yet Butler was true to himself and true to America so he told the truth
    in a righteous world, he would have a giant statue of himself in Washington DC instead of being totally dammned from our collective memory

    • Replies: @El Dato
  103. notbe says:
    @gotmituns

    oh one more thing-in Butlers day at least invading other countries was about something the US could use and didnt have before..bananas

    at least back then the US could proudly say, “hey we got bananas out of that whole mess down south BANANAS!” Today, like you said, its only buying and testing equipment which the US taxpayer pays for anyways

    • Replies: @Half Back
  104. El Dato says:
    @pol anon

    So you are saying Afghanistan will become even more of a superfund site than it already is?

    “Stalker: Afghanistan” when?

    The big eco dilemma: How rare earth metals have become a thorn in the side of the green agenda

    And that brings us to the highly ironic price of the proposed ‘green initiative’ – that of extreme pollution and abject environmental disaster. There are many highly toxic derivatives that come from the extraction and processing of these metals. It is highly disruptive to ecosystems, while releasing hazardous acidic and radioactive by-products into the atmosphere and the water table.

    Rare earth ore often contains radioactive thorium, but in order to process, the metal requires an even deadlier cocktail of toxins. Processing a single ton produces 2,000 tons of toxic waste. In Baotou, there is now the world’s largest mine tailings pond. It is a vast death-lake of poisonous, grey, slime, and for 20 years it has been leaking its toxic contents into the groundwater supply. In Bayan Obo, where the Baotou rare earths are processed, sheep grow abnormally (they grow extra rows of teeth, are unable to close their mouths and their wool is ugly).

    Crops wither and the drinking water has a horrid smell which blackens gums and teeth. Locals die from cancer at an inordinate rate. The mine itself is a massive, apocalyptic black crater – much larger than the lonely nearby apartment block – 1,000 metres deep and spanning 48 sq km. It is a landscape of smoky smelters and dark, lifeless, mud.

    China has introduced new, stricter environmental regulatory policies as of late, and is showing signs of simply becoming sick of poisoning its own land and people in pursuit of these minerals. It has attempted to outsource its own production to corporate-colony-mines in Africa, where no doubt – if successful – invaluable rare wildlife already nearing extinction can look forward to poisoned water, radioactive waste, and smoke-stack horizons.

    • Thanks: RobinG, RichardDuck
  105. https://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/2021/08/simply-came-to-mind.html

    Прощайте, горы, вам видней,
    Какую цену здесь платили,
    Врага какого не добили,
    Каких оставили друзей.

    Farewell mountains, you know better
    What price we were paying here
    What kind of enemy we didn’t finish off
    What kind of friends we left here.

    • Replies: @El Dato
  106. notbe says:
    @pol anon

    and good for them-at least they were smart enough not to invade and stay 21 years

  107. @Jimmy le Blanc

    Initially our goal was to stop Afghanistan from being used as a terrorist base.

    Thanks for the laugh.

    • Agree: Biff
  108. @El Dato

    I’m curious how Afghans reacted to C19 hysteria. Since they already wear burkas and scarfs, not many would bother wearing western style face diapers, or lining up to take a western made bio weapon jab.

    That in itself should grounds to fight Taliban for another 20+ years. How dare they hurt Bidumb’s feelings.

    Bad jihadie, bad bad bad.

    • Replies: @El Dato
  109. BorisMay says:
    @Jimmy le Blanc

    They look upon people like you as scum. And judging by what you write, what the US has done to their nation and the obscene reasons given for the US’s intervention then I suggest they are correct in their assessment of you.

    • Agree: Druid55
    • Replies: @Jimmy le Blanc
  110. BorisMay says:
    @Desert Fox

    Actually war is the last resort of the incompetent. There is nothing honourable, decent or positive about it. Only fools elect incompetents to power and only idiots follow war mongers. You only need to read the average US citizen on here to see how utterly stupid Americans are.

  111. BorisMay says:
    @Unit472

    And what about the 350 million lying two faced thieves in the US?

  112. @Badger Down

    Like Americans actually have self determination. File your complaints with Blockrock and the Federal Reserve please in the future.

  113. El Dato says:
    @TKK

    Not even NGOs are on the ground in Afghanistan.

    Actually, NGOs ARE on the ground in Afghanistan:

    MSF: Afghanistan violence: Increase in trauma needs in Lashkar Gah hospital

    There is clearly actual fighting going on.

    National Security Fellow (whatever that is) Jennifer Cafarella has advice:

    “Do not watch”
    “Do not post” (definitely not Saigon-like images and music by “The Doors” is right out)
    “Just lie back and think of the copium”

    Unfortunately the advice to reach out to colleagues rubs against COVID “best practices”. Mummu mum muhummmu muh mummmmm muh Ivermectin!!

    Speaking of which, the COVID situation in Afghanistan is not ideal. This is not astonishing if nearby Iran is hit to the degree that a US bioweapon deployment (by some internal cabal) starts to be a “hypothesis to be potentially considered”.

    2021-02-12: Keeping an eye on COVID-19 cases in Herat, Afghanistan

    There are probably a lot of people dying off-screen. COVID-19: Not a white whine (You hear Paul Craig Roberts? I’m talking to you. Get into the real world!). Hell, the Armenia-Azerbaijan war was seriously affected by people getting pneumonia during action.

    Also:

  114. El Dato says:
    @CelestiaQuesta

    They have no masks (a medicinal theatre reserved for Zone A) no “jabs” but sadly also no oxygen or straightforward early-patient care. And probably scant hand-washing.

    But life goes on, as it must.

    • Replies: @Turk 152
  115. El Dato says:
    @Priss Factor

    Have some Victor Tsoi adapted to Afghan war footage

    Song translation is under the video.

    The last scene in that video looks like the bridge into Uzbekistan over which people are now fleeing.

    Can you imagine Alexander pushing through Persia and then right through the whole region into the northern sector of India until his troops said “enough – we won’t any further”. That must have been something.

  116. @ruralguy

    “…giving them some of the best military equipment in the world.”

    What would those be?

    The Jammomatic?

    The Flying Turkey?

  117. Aedib says:

    The government collapse rate is astonishing.

    • Replies: @Druid55
    , @Buck Ransom
  118. The most interesting thing to me is in all the media videos where the Taliban have taken over – I see civilians moving about pretty normally…. For people who are supposedly terrified of the Taliban and wanted a western life – it seems pretty strange. But I guess it’s like most conflicts where one government is overturned is because the average people on the ground really support the “other” group…. No way the Taliban could do this if they didn’t have the popular support.

  119. The US got what it wanted. When Carter’s CIA aided the fundamentalist mujahideen under Osama bin Laden and other outsiders (along with Saudi Arabia and Pakistan) and overthrew the Soviet-style Afghanistan (Western and relatively progressive, particularly for women, relative to what they became in a few short years, and all most Afghans have known since then), that started 40 years of tribal wars starting in about 1979. Russia left its vassal state to the CIA-supported fundamentalists (ISIS precursors), and the Taliban sprung up as an indigenous alternative to al Qaeda, and to collaborators of the occupiers.

    Trump’s agreement with the Taliban to withdraw in May was abrogated. Biden showed American treaties (once again) mean nothing, and gave the Taliban popular support to take over. We know while some military will be removed, the CIA, mercenaries, and military contractors will continue to keep money flowing (Neoliberalism for billionaires in action). Unlike the US, 7500 miles away, bordering Pakistan, China and former Soviet states will quickly work to consolidate economic agreements beneficial to all parties. Of course the US, Saudi Arabia and Israel will continue to disrupt this, fomenting more misery for the Afghans.

    • Replies: @John Johnson
  120. Fur baby says:
    @Unit472

    We don’t know or never knew what the hell was going on there because the deal since the first gulf war with all these reporters in these theaters of operations is they can be there on condition they make the U.S look good and making progress towards it’s goals. Now the foreign press may be better but we in the U.S have a problem getting that info.

  121. @Unit472

    Hey you never know – they might have children who can win an Olympics gold medal for the US… Kind of the like the Hmong girl – who won the overall female gymnastics… Her forebears betrayed their locals and worked with the CIA to cause trouble in South East Asia. Then they got persecuted by the Vietnamese. instead of going back to China – where the rest of the Hmong are – those particular Hmong got airlifted to the USA. Minnesota is glad to receive traitors it seems 🙂

  122. MLK says:
    @W

    The worst you can say of Trump is that he was crazy to risk his family and fortune to save his country.

    The primary psychological driver against him, and it’s palpable in your comment, is resentment toward the man. I get that, courage and sacrifice makes a lot of people feel bad about themselves in comparison.

    Believe me, I’ve heard it all before a million times (e.g. “You think he’s playing 4d chess!”). I suggest you exercise some common sense. If Trump was same old, same old then how do you explain the last five years and still counting?

    • Replies: @W
  123. @anonymous

    What the true monotheism of Islam means to its adherents is the sublime reality that a large section of humankind has been graced by the Creator of all existence, to be liberated from the darknesses of pagan polytheist mangods-worshipping godlessness, and the mind-bending delusions which accompany such spiritual pestilences.

    A liberation religion? Is that what you call the only religion that allows sex slaves?

    So God allows man to worship all kinds of gods for thousands of years but then around 610 he tells an Arab in a cave that it actually pisses him off to where you need to go kill non-believers and take their women.

    Isn’t that about right?

    • Troll: Biff, John Johnson
  124. @michael888

    The US got what it wanted. When Carter’s CIA aided the fundamentalist mujahideen under Osama bin Laden and other outsiders (along with Saudi Arabia and Pakistan) and overthrew the Soviet-style Afghanistan (Western and relatively progressive, particularly for women, relative to what they became in a few short years, and all most Afghans have known since then

    Soviet-style Afghanistan? I think you mean Soviet occupied as they were backing a coup.

    The Afghans never got a vote on if they wanted Soviet overlords as with all Soviet territories.

    Yes we gave them weapons but so did other countries.

    Trying to blame the Taliban on the US is a leftist narrative that leaves out huge sections of history. It’s the same leftist game of trying to blame everything on Whites/US/Western society/etc.

    They would have had plenty of weapons without US support. Even China was backing them.

  125. @anonymous

    Yup, that is the unassailability of being on the side of Pure Monotheism. When you consider that the only logical comprehension of Divinity is that of Oneness (true Oneness, not the pathetic 3-is-one kind), it automatically follows that that One God is on the side of the true monotheists. Islam gets its toughness from that.

    So are Sunni or Shia on the side of that One True God?

  126. W says:
    @MLK

    The worst you can say of Trump is that he was crazy to risk his family and fortune to save his country.

    This is the worst thing a die hard Trumpkin would say because you focus on the positive and ignore/rationalize the negative.

    Why did he leave his 1/6 supporters to rot?
    Why did he pardon Pollard?
    WHY IS HE PUSHING A KILLSHOT KILLING AND MAIMING THOUSANDS OF AMERICANS?

    If Trump was same old, same old then how do you explain the last five years and still counting?

    The parasite class are not monolithic, they fight with each other – Cumo was forced to resign because he lost a fight. How did Trump become president if all the powers that be were against him

    Trumpstein has enemies, so does Glenn Beck, Cucker Carson, and Alex Jonestein. If the parasite class was monolithic Trump would not have gained the nomination, and he never would have won the presidency.

    BS narratives will always be made of conflicting information.

    Was he all alone or not?
    Did secret patriots help him out or not?
    If secret patriots helped him why couldn’t he appoint non swamp creatures?
    Why did he have to play 4d chess in the first place?

    Last year I realized that Trumpkins don’t care what he does. Ignorance is not the problem; pushing the killshot, paroding Pollard, leaving his supporters to 20 year sentences. It was such a blatant betrayal, such a clear mask off situation that you don’t even defend it. You know why he did those things.

    You.Don’t.Care

    I washed my hands of you people, all american loyalists should do the same

  127. cassandra says:
    @Francis Miville

    They will install solar panels and send their best students study in the US.

    Given the declining state of American universities, and the upcoming quality of the Chinese, Afghan students might prefer China. Learning Mandarin and making Chinese connections might be better long-term business investments fo Afghanis.

    As for solar panels, the example of performance of the American electrical grid might affect decisions there as well.

  128. @ruralguy

    The incompetence of our government is just off the scale.

    That would be true if declared objectives (nation-building, bringing democracy, improving the lot of women, etc.) were real. They most certainly were not. The main objective was to steal as much of those two trillions as possible, and virtually all thieves were as American as an apple pie. Secondary objective was to let certain people get rich on opium/heroine trade. Tertiary objective was to leave a large pile of shit on Russia/China doorstep. All objectives were successfully achieved: the US taxpayers were robbed, right (from the US government point of view) people got a sizable chunk of drug profits, and the pile of shit to be left behind is enormous. So, the US government is competent in what it really sets out to do, as well as in fooling its citizens (as your post demonstrates).

    • Replies: @Jazman
  129. nickels says:

    Fagmerica die, die, die.

  130. Anon[254] • Disclaimer says:

    The author of this article needs a reality check. Either that, or this is a science-fiction novel in the making. Everyone knows that the U.S. left Afghanistan in 2016:

    In Obama’s own words, by the end of 2016, the U.S. will only have “a normal embassy presence” in Kabul. If you doubt this, remember that he was our President. Moreover, he received the Nobel Prize for Peace — think about it. A man of such caliber would never lie to us. Eo ipso, the war in Afghanistan ended nearly five years ago. It’s as simple as that.

    Get with the program, people!

  131. @El Dato

    I have that video set to “Who will save the world” by Modern Talking 😄

  132. @notbe

    There are also the slum teenager militias of Iraq, but they weren’t peasants. The Taliban owe their victory to the Iraqi resistance, which gave them 2 years, 2003-5, to recover and rebuild their forces and local networks.

    • Agree: notbe
  133. cassandra says:
    @Unit472

    Mostly going to Istanbul or some neighboring Stan and charging top dollar for a seat. Afghan airlines still flying out ( whether they’ll offer return flights is another matter). I would think fuel supplies will either run out or be stolen by corrupt Afghans.

    Since American arms will soon be unavailable to supply the black market from within Afghanistan, the profiteers are having to travel outside to establish ASAP new suppliers, so arms flow to their Taliban customers won’t be interrupted.

  134. Druid55 says:
    @Aedib

    Not really. For 2 decades us soldiers have been trying to instill into Afghans the will to fight. They never had it. The taliban did!

    • Agree: GomezAdddams
  135. arami says:

    There’s no reason to think that a new Taliban regime won’t be another humanitarian eyesore, Husain Haqqani, a former Pakistani ambassador to the U.S., tells.

    So far, in the areas of the country where they have regained control, the Taliban “have been executing people summarily, they have been lashing women, they have been shutting down schools. They have been blowing up hospitals and infrastructure,” he warns.

    “If they take control of Afghanistan, there is no question in my mind that they will provide a safe haven for al-Qaida, for ISIS and for terrorism in general,” he said. “And that constitutes, frankly, a national security threat to the United States.”

    Abdullah Abdullah who Leads the High Council for National Reconciliation, was giving his condolences to number of families today who have lost their loved one, killed by terrorist Taliban.

    People of the world must know that this is a PLAN designed by Jewish mafia pimp, trump and Khalilzad, and is followed by the self proclaimed zionist Biden and his Jewish mafia fifth column Blinken. Biden foreign policy, so far, is IDENTICAL to servant of the Jewish mafia trump.

    The plan is to bring PashtunTaliban into power, using Pashtun zionist ‘leaders’ Khalilzad – Ghani- Karzai against the Shiite Persian, TAJIK and Uzbek in Afghanistan to put a hostile racist anti Shiite on the Iranian border AGAIN. Pashtun are 40% and Tajik and Uzbak combine are 40% of the population.
    Ghani working with Biden is managing Taliban take over through a ‘peaceful process’ ordering the ‘Trained Afghan Army by the t US military’ not to defend the country against the terrorist Taliban because Biden said: the transfer of power should be ‘peaceful’, otherwise washington does nto recognize Taliban (Bullshit, the plan is going on as was designed)

    Also fifth column Blinken, speaking Friday in Paris, noted the increased violence and cited “a real danger” that if the Taliban tries to take the country by force, “we’ll see a renewal of a war or possibly worse.”

    As we have seen, Taliban is taking city after city, faster than the speed of light, with NO resistance from the Afghan Army and in fact they have FELT the front due to an ORDER by the ‘president’ Ghani in bed with the Zionists.
    Taliban will kill whoever is resisting and not resisting if they become obstacle against their taking over. The defenseless people of Afghanistan have betrayed AGAIN by by the ‘axis of evil’ for political gain.

    How do you explain? Khalilzad, Ghani, Karzai, all working with Washington to let Taliban to grab power against the wish of people, like Tajik and Uzbak and no complaint from either Russia or China, because China can work with any terrorist who let China continue to expand its ‘silk road’, of course China’s Buddy Pakistan is working with Washington on this plan, which is TREASON against Afghani people. They all want Pushtuns against Persians.

    Death to enemy of Iran

  136. @showmethereal

    Oh course they have popular support. Outside the “Kabulbubble” of upper and upper middle class, English speaking, westernised people, the equivalent of the Moscow liberals, their support approaches 100%.

    What happened, by the way, to the Volkssturm of housewives who were parading with rifles a few days ago boasting that they’d fight off the Taliban? Anyone know?

  137. Half Back says: • Website
    @notbe

    Hence the song “Yes we have no bananas today”. It seems to correspond to America Monroe doctrine and war-plans in Central/South America. This however is serious business and Historians will look back at this time 2000-2022 as the decline of sole America super status, which was hastened by the political elite decisions. I remember the time when American cultural elite ‘laughed at ‘monocled British Generals,’ the disastrous campaigns and sheer bloody madness of Great Britain, while loudly proclaiming American superiority. Well all your chickens have come to roost.

    • Agree: notbe
    • Replies: @notbe
  138. @anonymous

    True Oneness means that there is only one. You and God are one. You ARE God. Can you handle that?

    • Agree: Pharaoh
    • Disagree: El Dato
    • Replies: @Anon
  139. @arami

    They could at least have removed their national flags from their Humvees before running for their lives. It’s just common decency.

  140. LOL. Afghan situation has devolved into this:

    And this is something out of Mel Brooks movie.

    • Replies: @El Dato
  141. Imelda Marcos was an amateur. This is funnier than START THE REVOLUTION WITHOUT ME.

    • LOL: littlereddot
    • Replies: @El Dato
  142. @SafeNow

    Quite a few “translators” would be “house boys” paid by GIs to clean the barracks and keep their lockers in order.

  143. Jazman says:
    @AnonfromTN

    Same will happened when Americans left Kosovo I hope soon . Bondstill base was number one distribution center for heroin from Kosovo to EU

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
  144. I dream of the day this happens in Israel – and it will. By

    • Agree: Druid55
  145. @Aedib

    Are you talking about the government in Kabul or the one on the Potomac?

  146. Anonymous[205] • Disclaimer says:
    @W

    Why did he pardon Pollard?

    Trump didn’t pardon Pollard you stupid idiot. He was paroled during the Obama administration.

    • Replies: @W
  147. Pharaoh says: • Website
    @anonymous

    When you consider that the only logical comprehension of Divinity is that of Oneness (true Oneness, not the pathetic 3-is-one kind), it automatically follows that that One God is on the side of the true monotheists. Islam gets its toughness from that.

    Islamic oneness is not the true Oneness. In True Oneness there exists just One Entity, God alone exists.

    You worship a false god who lives in a big black house in Saudi Arabia, who will torture for all eternity the overwhelming majority of his own creation for not believing that a mass-murdering caravan-robbing pedophile was his ‘Last Prophet’. What the hell do you find “logical” about that?

    • Replies: @Anon
  148. Jiminy says:

    I reckon that they’ll be dropping like flies from the killer flu very soon in Kabul, so why are they worried about the odd little skirmish with the taliban. Don’t they realise there’s a pandemic on, where’s their priority?

  149. Anon[323] • Disclaimer says:
    @littlereddot

    😯
    That’s a great understanding of vainglorious yourself .
    Not of god .

    There is no god but god and he has no partner .- and Muhammad is his messenger—-Islam .

    Does it include you anywhere ?
    Does it include even Muslim prophet ?

    • Agree: El Dato
  150. Anon[323] • Disclaimer says:
    @Pharaoh

    Hey moron , don’t read Islam’s early history from the Rabbi ‘s sermons on the right to rape non Jews boys and girls or from evangelical Bible thumping morons and neither from medieval despondent Catholic anguish or cry .

    Moron , your whole history is nothing but stealing and ambushing the caravan of the entire world in the name of Christ from those who did not attack you – from Africa to Phillipinr to Latin America .
    At least prophet was attacked and boycotted before any attack on caravan .Yoir entire existence is nothing but snatching and grabbing from Palestine and that also pure on the basis of Old Testament.

    • Troll: El Dato
  151. W says:
    @Anonymous

    You’re right smart boi, he let Pollard go home and pardoned his handler.

    Now continue masterbating and eating your cheatoes

  152. El Dato says:

    An arbitrary blast from the past from my extensive stash of files I kept.

    The Economist, 1998-04-25: “Those not very nice people in Afghanistan”

  153. El Dato says:
    @Priss Factor

    This is like watching some Wiley E. Coyote.

  154. El Dato says:
    @Priss Factor

    2010-Jan-18: River of booze flows through Afghan UN mission in NYC

    KabulPress recently received a pile of receipts from “The Diplomatic Duty Free Shops” in Manhattan, which supplies all manner of tax-free booze, caviar, cigars, and exotic chocolates to the world’s diplomatic elite. The receipts document thousands of dollars of purchases of Johnny Walker Scotch whiskey, Absolut Vodka, and a variety of French and Italian wines, and champagnes bought by the Afghan U.N. mission in 2007 and 2009. The receipts read: “bill to and ship to “Mission of Afghanistan 360 Lexington Ave. attn: Z. Tanin.”

    Dr. H.E. Zahir Tanin, whose title on the mission’s website is, “Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary, Permanent Representative of Afghanistan to the United Nations” has held that position since December 19, 2006. He heads a mission staff of seven from a 27th floor suite, just around the corner from U.N. Headquarters.

    🤣🤣🤣

  155. Half Back says: • Website

    The Taliban are at the gates of the capital Kabul. Helicopters roar through the air carrying US personal to airports and so state side. Joe’s 5000 soldiers are still on the way? So it looks like Pepe’s prediction is coming true. Saigon moment in Kabul…….All those Interest groups foundations and military apparatchiks are going to cry into their corn flakes this morning…. if only…Anther colossal waste of resources and the US is spending big (\$) with nothing in the cupboard. The Taliban said give us evidence and we give you Bin Laden and they were serious, so this WAR could have been avoided. It’s rumored that GW wanted to attack Iraq straight away after 9/11 but advisors said the country would understand, since you said the attack came from Afghanistan. So on the ‘cheap’ they went after Afghanistan, knowing full well that Iraq was he prize, such Treachery from GW.
    Finally here is a link that probably will go soon showing the largest spy ring (ever) lead by Israeli arts students. I did read that the spy network was 500 yards from the Terror cells lead by Mohamed Atta. So combine this with ‘dancing Israeli you have provable proof that they, the Israelis were in complete knowledge of 9/11 before it happened. In law this means they are held to be responsible.
    DEA reports of Spies. – It was credible shown the ‘Moving company ‘ and some spies said in questioning that they ‘were’ demolition experts. So from Larry Silverstein owning all the 2 main building as well as building 7 and sky high insuring them just weeks before 9/11 and the Spies having explosive experts being in the country several streams of what really happened comes into play. Israeli are know to infiltrate groups with \$\$ and push such groups into action, anyway thats possible BUT what we really can say with certain is Spies with explosive skills in country combined with knowledge before the event, and so to make it more dramatic it seems building 7 was definitely wired for demolition and only one group would have that to be outcome that day, Larry Silverstein and the Israeli. This would in PM Nuttywho-who words ‘be good for us.’
    https://cryptome.org/dea-il-spy.htm

    • Thanks: El Dato
    • Replies: @John Johnson
  156. @BorisMay

    The Chinese are currently courting the goat and boy fuckers for access to resources and a passage for their “Silk Road” project. The Chinese certainly won’t care about the lives of girls and women, or building schools and roads, or drilling wells, or the myriad of other benefits the U.S. foolishly provided to these barbarians. The Chinks will ruthlessly exploit Afghanistan based on a completely sober and unemotional cost/benefit analysis. They’ll probably harvest blood and organs from the populace.

    Let me know when your tears begin flowing for Afghan suffering under the Chinks.

  157. @Druid55

    For 2 decades us soldiers have been trying to instill into Afghans the will to fight.

    So you tried to get Afghans to join you in killing other Afghans in Afghanistan.

    And you failed … How surprising … for you anyway …

    Posts like yours really show the depth of American stupidity.

    Mere ignorance disappears with education/time/experience, but you depraved boneheads continued this for two decades.

    While your colleagues ran Heroin out of Afghan through Camp Bondsteel.

    Do you have any idea why the world laughs at Americans ?

    • Troll: Druid55
    • Replies: @Druid55
  158. PJ London says:
    @Fiendly Neighbourhood Terrorist

    Idiots do not understand that for 50% of the world’s population, the only thing that matters is Tribal affiliation.
    _
    What should be done is split these areas (and Arabia and Africa) into tribal lands.
    You know “Apartheid”.
    It works for the people but not for the corporations and that is why it is opposed.

    “We were fortunate that the British became our colonial masters. Because they were the only ones that realised tribal identity was the basis of nations. Probably from the endless Scottish and Irish wars. You will note that the successful African countries are based on single tribes. Swaziland Basutoland, Bechuanaland, Nyasaland and Malundi. Multiple tribes with a single government do not do so well. Clan genocide is fairly common.”
    _
    They let the French divide Arabia and then really screwed up when it came to India-Pakistan.
    Implement Apartness in all the world (including USA) and peace will reign.

    • Replies: @Marshal Marlow
  159. Report from a couple hours ago —

    ” The Taliban have reportedly entered the Afghan capital but the group said its militants have been ordered to wait at the city’s gates and that they are not planning to capture Kabul “by force” shortly after they seized control of a strategic eastern city without any resistance.

    Afghanistan’s interior ministry announced on Sunday that the Taliban had started entering the capital “from all sides.”

    More at —
    https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2021/08/15/664473/Taliban-Jalalabad-offensives-Kabul

    • Replies: @Arthur MacBride
  160. PJ London says:
    @Maddaugh

    The Rhodesians and S Africans learned how to beat these.
    Have snitches and recce teams locate the Terrs as they moved and then drop hunter teams (20-30 men) as close on their heels as you could.
    The Hunters ran them down (as the Paras and RLI were younger, fitter, better trained) and killed them.
    If you did not get them inside 12 hours you were the laughing stock of the Battalion.

    • Replies: @El Dato
  161. Maddaugh says:
    @Fiendly Neighbourhood Terrorist

    C”mon man ! Here is the deal Man ! Our boys HAVE to look cool. Friendly, what is the point of going to war and looking like a bum ? What would Arnold, Rambo, Bruce Willis, Chuck Norris and Dolph Lundgren have to say ? It might not make any sense to you but it does to me. I mean it is perfectly intelligent, as a matter of fact pure common sense, to spend trillions reducing a place to rubble,then spending trillions to rebuild it, then spending more trillions to blow it up again, then spending more to win hearts and minds. What could be more rational ?

    Anyway, When the photo journalist appears on the scene you have to be doing the GQ thing, say cool shit and be upbeat about bringing democracy to a people still living in the 11th Century, and of course winning the war…………..even as we go down in humiliating defeat. The people back home WANT to hear that crap. They scream “Lie to us Pleeeeeeeeeeease!!”

    And of course, we need dem Afghan women educated. Their men dont give a shit about them but we do ! The “merican public wants to know it was all worth their kids coming home without limbs and parts of their faces missing.

    I cannot tell you how frustrating it is for me to look at all this. You know, in the Russian Army, the current doctrine is still the one they learnt from the Wehrmacht so long ago. Physical education consumes some 56 hours a week in their military. Some of the porkers we now recruit into so called “elite” units cant climb a flight of stairs naked without palpitations. Every single foundational element of the effective infantry man, laid down as a result of thousands of years of experience, has been thrown on the scrap heap and replaced, disastrously with “technology”.

    As to the training ! The average Taliban recruit generally learnt on the job. He might have some rudimentary basic but live or die his experience was in the field. Here is an AK, here is how you load, aim, clear a jam and clean the thing. Now get some Americans. We spend oodles of time teaching recruits how to make their beds, iron their shirts, polish their boots and shout “Yes Sir, No Sir” every time the DI scratches his nuts, time that could be devoted to battle drill from the very first day.

    And then there are our illustrious leaders Generals Smiley and Dustbin. The whole US military is now a circus and we are the spectators, paying a premium entrance fee for a shit show!

  162. El Dato says:

    More stuff

    2014-Dec-28: CNN: Obama marks end of combat in Afghanistan

    [MORE]

    Thirteen years and more than 2,000 American casualties after it began, the war in Afghanistan will conclude responsibly, President Barack Obama said on Sunday.

    In a written statement marking the formal end of U.S. combat there, Obama said the remaining 10,000 or so American troops in Afghanistan would still face danger but that the longest U.S. war ever was now history.

    “Our personnel will continue to face risks, but this reflects the enduring commitment of the United States to the Afghan people and to a united, secure and sovereign Afghanistan that is never again used as a source of attacks against our nation,”

    American troops went to fight in Afghanistan following the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, and the U.S. spent more than \$1 trillion dollars there and lost upwards of 2,200 servicemen and women.

    Obama vowed to wind the Afghan war down when he took office, eventually announcing this year he would reduce the number of troops stationed there to about 10,000 — a massive reduction from the nearly 150,000 who once served.

  163. El Dato says:

    Even more stuff:

    2010-March-15. Alan Bock: Down the Rabbit Hole in Afghanistan

    The clincher for me, however, came in an article in the eminently establishment (though unusually open to different perspectives) Web site for Foreign Policy magazine, started by the Carnegie Endowment and now owned by the Washington Post Co. The article is by Thomas Johnson, who teaches national security affairs at the Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey (which does also tolerate our old friend David Henderson), and Chris Mason, a retired State Department officer who served in Afghanistan. They have previously compared Afghanistan to Vietnam, at a pretty deep level [DEAD LINK]. In “Down the AfPak Rabbit Hole,” they compared U.S. “strategy” in Afghanistan, and the Marjah campaign in particular, to Alice in Wonderland. Some examples:

    [MORE]

    “Two months ago the collection of mud-brick hovels known as Marjah might have been mistaken for a flyspeck on maps of Afghanistan. Today the media has nearly doubled its population from 50,000 to 80,000 … and portrays the offensive there as the equivalent of the Normandy invasion, and the beginning of the end for the Taliban. In fact, however, the entire district of Nad Ali, which contains Marjah, represents about 2 percent of Regional Command (RC) South, the U.S. military’s operational area that encompasses Helmand, Kandahar, Uruzgan, Zabul, Nimruz, and Daykundi provinces. RC South by itself is larger than all of South Vietnam, and the Taliban controls virtually all of it. This appears to have occurred to no one in the media.

    “Nor have any noted that this nearly worthless postage stamp of real estate has tied down about half of all the real combat power and aviation assets of the international coalition in Afghanistan for a quarter of a year. The possibility that wasting massive amounts of U.S. and British blood, treasure, and time just to establish an Afghan Potemkin village with a ‘government in a box‘ might be exactly what the Taliban wants the coalition to do has apparently not occurred to either the press or to the generals who designed this operation.”

    Although the Afghan war at a macro level is a disaster fated to be regretted for a long time to come – whether it peters out gradually and most U.S. troops are withdrawn in 16 months or so or substantial U.S. forces are stationed there for decades, which is the only way to do nation-building in a country that has no particular desire to be a nation as Westerners understand the term. But one might have supposed that at least a few of the tactical operations involved could have been well-designed and well-executed, with something resembling a serious counterinsurgency purpose that actually accomplished some short-term gain.

    However, the invasion of Marjah appears to be little more than a public relations or propaganda gesture, designed to make it seem that the “coalition” troops are doing something to earn their keep and the commanders can take some initiative. I will admit that some believe that Marjah is a more important Taliban stronghold than Johnson and Mason do and that the campaign just might have an influence beyond the tiny geographical area that it covers. But I’m skeptical, and I’ll let Johnson and Mason have the last word:


    “So here we are in the AfPak Wonderland, complete with a Mad Hatter (the clueless and complacent media), Tweedledee and Tweedledum (the military, endlessly repeating itself and history), the White Rabbit (the State Department, scurrying to meetings and utterly irrelevant), the stoned Caterpillar (the CIA, obtuse, arrogant, and asking the wrong questions), the Dormouse (U.S. Embassy Kabul, who wakes up once in a while only to have his head stuffed in a teapot), the Cheshire Cat (President Obama, fading in and out of the picture, eloquent but puzzling), the Pack of Cards army (the Afghan National Army, self-explanatory), and their commander, the inane Queen of Hearts (Afghan President Hamid Karzai). (In Alice in Wonderland, however, the Dormouse is ‘suppressed’ by the Queen of Hearts, not the White Rabbit or the Cheshire Cat, so the analogy is not quite perfect.)”

  164. El Dato says:

    Unclean hands! Lots of info were in that Manning dump, as I remember.

    2010-04-30: Atrocities in Afghanistan: A Troubling Timetable

    It is worth noting that even General McChrystal acknowledges that U.S. forces have killed civilians who meant them no harm. During a biweekly videoconference with US soldiers in Afghanistan, he was quite candid. “We’ve shot an amazing number of people and killed a number and, to my knowledge, none has proven to have been a real threat to the force,” said General McChrystal. “To my knowledge, in the nine-plus months I’ve been here, not a single case where we have engaged in an escalation of force incident and hurt someone has it turned out that the vehicle had a suicide bomb or weapons in it and, in many cases, had families in it.”  

    The list below describes, in part, the suffering and agony that people in Afghanistan have endured since April, 2009. To focus on this list doesn’t excuse atrocities committed by Taliban fighters. It does indicate our own responsibility to urgently educate others and ourselves about a deeply disturbing pattern: U.S./NATO officials first distribute misleading information about victims of an attack and later acknowledge that the victims were unarmed civilians.

    Then americans get a moral panic when they see troops sporting a flag with stylish SS runes from the Dark Empire, as if that mattered in one way or another. Because “Jewsish Organizations” are unhappy about this and get PTSD or something. Oy!

    2012-Feb-10: Marine SS photo riles major U.S. Jewish group

    Well, it’s not your insignia guys, so don’t fly it. Still:

    “I don’t believe that the Marines involved would have ever used any type of symbol associated with the Nazi Germany military criminal organization that committed mass atrocities in WWII,” Chapin said. “It’s not within who we are as Marines.”

    We commit our OWN atrocities.

    Hier said it clearly shows more training about the Holocaust and the SS unit is needed.

    I won’t say any more about that.

    And really, who DOESN’T want to drive around with the SS? The IDF would probably reuse the flag if someone let them.

  165. @Arthur MacBride

    Looks like peaceful transer of power, forgiveness for those working for the occupiers, FUKUS ambassadors/staff etc allowed out.

    Russian embassy “working normally”.

    No bloodbaths.

    Humiliating defeat for Globohomo.

    https://www.rt.com/news/532086-taliban-attacks-kabul/

    • Agree: Aedib
    • Replies: @Wokechoke
  166. Unit472 says:

    Afghan ”president” Ghani had fled the country. I sure hope Biden has not allowed him into the US

  167. Smith says:

    Oh wow, that was fast.

    That’s a new friggin’ record. They have surpassed the Vietcong. Praise be!

    • Replies: @Unit472
    , @notbe
  168. The only common thing between Saigon and Kabul is a humiliating defeat of the US military. Everything else is different. It was a tragedy in Saigon, where some people actually resisted North Vietnamese takeover. It is pure farce in Kabul: US-installed puppet “government” has virtually no internal support in Afghanistan, so Taliban meets little if any resistance. Afghan “army” (a pretext for stealing allegedly ~\$88 billion) is either surrendering or running away, Afghan “president” ran away even before the US finished troop drawdown, Afghani traitors who worked for the puppet regime are trying to flee any way they can. Chances are, many will get their deserts at the hands of Taliban.

    Reminds one of the words of Ukrainian politician Lyashko some years ago: “those whose planes do not take off in time will be hanged”. All puppet regimes have a lot in common. Even someone as dumb as former Ukrainian foreign minister Klimkin is beginning to realize what Kabul should teach Kiev. Interestingly, Ukrainian lawyer and blogger Montyan responded to Klimkin’s post: “When the US decides to turn you in, like empty bottles, very few of you would have a chance to run away. The majority will be hanged on lampposts”.

    • Agree: Half Back
  169. @Jazman

    Yep. Empire-installed puppet regimes have a lot in common. “Government” in Kosovo is as much of a puppet as the ones in Kabul or Kiev.

  170. El Dato says:
    @PJ London

    This may work against blacks. Keep armchairing.

  171. Unit472 says:
    @Smith

    US Secretary of State Anthony Blinken says the US is moving its embassy compound to Kabul airport.

    He told ABC News: “It’s why we had forces on hand – to make sure we could do this in a safe and orderly fashion. The compound itself, folks are leaving there and going to the airport.”

    He added that the embassy has lists of people to get out of harm’s way and is doubling down on efforts to do so.

    He also denied any comparisons of the current situation to the 1975 fall of Saigon, in Vietnam, and insisted that the Afghan mission had been “successful”

    “This is not Saigon,” he said.

    • LOL: Arthur MacBride
    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    , @Wokechoke
    , @Smith
  172. Unit472 says:

    From bad to worse!

    Posted at 11:5511:55
    ‘Kabul airport under fire’ – US embassy
    There are reports of gunfire at Kabul’s airport, according to a security alert just issued by the US Embassy.

    Officials have instructed US citizens in the area to take shelter, as “the security situation in Kabul is changing quickly”.

    Any Americans who still require assistance to leave Kabul have been told to register online, after operations at the embassy concluded.

  173. @Unit472

    The US moved its embassy to Kabul airport. Apparently in preparation to moving it the heck out of Afghanistan.

  174. Levtraro says:
    @Maddaugh

    I think that you and WJ are missing the point of the soldier’s gear: it is not there to help win any war or make the soldier more effective, it is there because it was PAID to be there (all those corporations need to sell all that gear).

    • Replies: @Maddaugh
  175. Levtraro says:
    @anonymous

    The feeling is that of; what good have I done done to deserve such a blessing? The resultant exhilaration is indescribable.

    Yo bro’ you’re talking ’bout islam or ’bout ecstasy?

  176. Wokechoke says:
    @Magnus8788

    This was America’s attempt to gain a foothold in Central Asia. Prepared for the subsequent catastrophic US civil war as the various factions back home point fingers at each other and bloodletting on a scale that might be more proportionally bloody that the ECW, War of the Roses or even the Russian Civil War after the Bolsheviks seized power. It’s Imperial Collapse.

    • Replies: @HeebHunter
  177. @Jimmy le Blanc

    Behold, the current pathetic state of the once mighty White Man. Reduced to copium addiction. Hopes and dreams replaced by resentment and rage.

  178. Wokechoke says:
    @Arthur MacBride

    Bloodbath for who exactly? This could be trigger for domestic civil war. War lost against infidels, statues smashed fuel prices spiking and plague. It’s medieval. It’s exactly how a country falls to bits.

  179. Wokechoke says:
    @Unit472

    Saigon was just a coastal port area that gave whites a foothold near some rubber plantations. This is the sort of defeat that triggers civil war for the home country. The US has been trying to have a base in Central Asia since the 1960s to control the “world island” as MacKinder put it. It’s a major strategic reversal. The relatives of white soldiers sacrificing everything for 20 will be fucking furious. Not that the war was worth their sacrifices of course.

    • Replies: @Unit472
  180. raju says:
    @Malla

    Gandhi a fair weather man claiming to be a friend of Gitler (read what Gandhi wrote to Gitler) was denied an audience with Germany’s leader (as an opportunist politician Gandhi just was interested in a Photo OP for self promotion). What Gitlter said to British Prime Minister what British should do with the fuc…naked beggar (Churchill’s words) was a quick reply “shoot him”. The British did not want to do that to their asset. According to Orwell British were happy with their bidder promoting non-violence. India would have been free a long time ago had it not been for this fraud named Gandhi.

    You never found if Gandhi ever graduated from law school, name of school, he however, registered in one school in London and later claimed to be a lawyer in South Africa. He was not recognized as a lawyer in India. This is one example of Gandhi’ Fraud.

    He preached and claimed the Indian untouchables are his children however was against them praying in the same temples with other high class Hindus. When the British gave some civil rights to the untouchables in Indian Parliament, Gandhi in Protest in September 1929 went on hunger strike and the British had to recant. Just google.

    Dont promote Gandhi to a god like figure without checking facts. There is a library in Delhi go there and spend some time

    • Thanks: Justrambling
    • Replies: @Malla
  181. Taliban celebrating the defeat of the Evil Empire.

    • LOL: notbe
  182. Unit472 says:
    @Wokechoke

    True and the fall of Saigon was embarrassing but not a strategic defeat for the US. It was more a problem for China who, in 1979 fought a border war with Vietnam and found out how tough the Vietnamese army was. Now China has 100 million Vietnamese who are more nationalists than communist on its border. If anything China might wish Vietnam were still divided into North and South instead of a united country increasingly allying itself with the US.

    Similarly the US defeat in Afghanistan ends our responsibilities there. It is someone else’s problem now and a problem it will be for this is no ISIS composed of deranged fanatics but the real deal running a real country and armed forces. It will exert a malign influence throughout Central Asia now.

    Sometimes you win by losing.

    • Replies: @gatobart
    , @showmethereal
  183. One-off says:
    @ruralguy

    From the standpoint of the MIC, the 20-year revenue stream was a smashing success. There is an upside: the Evil Empire 2 is absolutely done after this utter humiliation.

  184. Cking says:

    Re: the Iraqi War, the Middle East and Southwest Asia. ‘We spent have spent \$7 Trillion of dollars in the Middle East, what do we have to show for it? We could have redeveloped the continent 2x over.’ The Trump Doctrine. You don’t need to be an geopolitical genius to access your common sense-intellectual power.

  185. notbe says:
    @Smith

    a week ago the Taliban were suppossed to start threathening Kabul around late October early November at the earliest-well thats the last time I believed there were some professionals left in the US and NATO militaries…absolute incompetence reigns!

    • Agree: Commentator Mike
  186. One-off says:

    While the semblance to Saigon is eerie, the closer analogy is the Suez Crisis, which officially marked the end of the British Empire (which really ended a decade earlier). The Evil Empire 2 is done now.

    • Replies: @Miro23
  187. notbe says:
    @Jimmy le Blanc

    well the afghans beat anybody who didnt pay them respect or treated them unfairly-the brits, the russians and…i forget who was the third

    if the chinese will “ruthlessly exploit Afghanistan based on a completely sober and unemotional cost/benefit analysis. They’ll probably harvest blood and organs from the populace” then they can join the above list

    seriously, do you really think that the chinese will do the above based on what happened today? There will be investments but the lesson learned is the afghans must be treated with respect and fairly

    if there is one population which in the future will be “ruthlessly exploited based on a completely sober and unemotional cost/benefit analysis. They’ll probably harvest blood and organs from the populace” is legacy americans

    -after all how much respect can one have for a population so passive that they allowed the closure of their factories and their transfer to china so that their rulers can increase their profits from 10 to 15 percent and which allowed a war to go on for 21 years without even getting resource concessions

    • Replies: @Malla
  188. Rdm says:
    @Anon

    It’s the same for all the institutions with prestigious awards, Nobel, Pulitzer etc ….

    to swindle those with IQ below 105.

  189. Miro23 says:
    @One-off

    While the semblance to Saigon is eerie, the closer analogy is the Suez Crisis, which officially marked the end of the British Empire (which really ended a decade earlier). The Evil Empire 2 is done now.

    There’s also the aspect that chaos is infectious. The Empire in Afghanistan with its modern equipment , mercenary army of 100’s thousands, and 2 trillion dollar expenditure just collapsed like a house of cards. Their agents can’t even fly out of Kabul without Taliban approval.

    Not to give other colonies of the Jewish Empire ideas, but there’s an opportunity here.

  190. arami says:

    Iran is following the events in Afghanistan very carefully, because they know this is another plot against Iran coming from the mass murderers zionist mafia and its fifth column servants. Some people in Iran think that the plot is to engage Taliban and Iran in a war, like they did in Iraq, or Syria.

    H. Rajaie writes:

    In two articles ( here and here ), the author has already taken the danger of the Taliban for our beloved homeland very seriously and warned about the puzzle that the United States has designed for the future of our region.

    The plans that the United States draws up for the West Asian region, each time with one actor playing a major role. After the victory of the Islamic Revolution and during the eight-year imposed war, its main actor was the Ba’ath party in Iraq. After 9/11 and during the occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq, it played a major role for al-Qaeda. Following the Islamic Awakening and during the crisis in Syria and Iraq, this task was taken over by ISIL, and it is likely that the Taliban will soon be the next stage in the implementation of US plans in the region.

    I also pointed out that some people’s assumption that the Taliban has changed is unreliable, and that it may return to its original form and ideological dreams to re-emerge after taking power. But it is important to know that each scene has its own game and it is not proven by a rule to deal with various threats and conspiracies. As serious as the Taliban threat is, sending troops to this country at this time is, for various reasons, the most unwise thing that our country can do.

  191. notbe says:
    @Half Back

    I also remember that back in the seventies and eighties, it was the american left and the american cultural elites that resisted the urge for foreign adventures

    now the situation is reversed-it is the real and genuine right that tries to put the american lefts and cultural elites urge to set soldiers abroad on a tight leash

    in a way, this is just regressing to normal patterns-the cold war was an anomaly in that the right was the militaristic wing Historically, it was the left of most countries that always wanted to export the revolution

    People who tend to be right wing tend to be satisfied with the world as is and fear that war can bring about uncontrolled and unforecast change

  192. One Afghan university student described feeling betrayed as she watched the evacuation of the U.S. Embassy.

    “You failed the younger generation of Afghanistan,” said Aisha Khurram, 22, who is now unsure of whether she will be able to graduate in two months’ time. “A generation … raised in the modern Afghanistan were hoping to build the country with their own hands. They put blood, efforts and sweat into whatever we had right now.”

  193. I maintain that this was probably supposed to be a handover to the to the Chinese with Blackrock controlled contractors but Biden done screwed it up. Hopefully Kabul uses the precedent for honesty set at the Nuremberg trials by our heroes and forever good guys The Allies.

  194. Turk 152 says:
    @El Dato

    Wrong about hand washing, it has been ritualized in the call to prayer before the west ever had a clue about sanitation. You can’t walk into a Muslim house without taking off shoes, I find the cultural standards much cleaner Americans.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    , @John Johnson
  195. Anon[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @One-off

    Biden = Andropov

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
  196. gatobart says:
    @Crescent Moon

    One would think a simple detail should have made her and many others like her in Afghanistan aware of the real situation and cautioned not to get their hopes too high: this was Amerrica sponsoring their movement. Had they educated themselves in post ww2 world history they wouldn’t have given such trust to their U.S. mentors and protectors.

    • Replies: @HeebHunter
  197. @Half Back

    Anther colossal waste of resources and the US is spending big (\$) with nothing in the cupboard. The Taliban said give us evidence and we give you Bin Laden and they were serious, so this WAR could have been avoided.

    What exactly did you think we had? A secretly recorded video from his cave where he planned it?

    Anyways the point is moot since he later took responsibility.

    The Taliban could have avoided war by handing him over. They knew he was responsible for at least the embassy bombings but decided to protect him since they didn’t think the US would invade over a single person.

    Attacking the Taliban was the correct move. In fact we were too nice about it and needlessly put too many soldiers on the ground.

    The wrong move was trying to turn the place into a US state.

  198. gatobart says:
    @Unit472

    “Sometimes you win by losing”

    Wow. you really sound sour grapes there. Otherwise, according to you, the great thing about military defeats is that you won’t have to care anymore for the winner, or for those you were under your rule or control until then. So I guess it must have been a great relief for the Germans in May 1945 not having to care for the rest of Europe in the future…that was Amerrica’s problem…! The same way Napoleon must have been ecstatic to lose in Russia and Waterloo.

    Anyway, that bit about Vietnam allying itself more and more with the U.S. explains it all: you are a guy living in a fantasy world.

    • Agree: notbe, littlereddot
  199. @Turk 152

    You can’t walk into a Muslim house without taking off shoes

    There s nothing specific for Moslems in this. In Russia, which is Orthodox Christian historically, you are expected to take your shoes off before walking into a house. It is considered very rude not to do so.

    • Replies: @Justrambling
  200. @Turk 152

    Wrong about hand washing, it has been ritualized in the call to prayer before the west ever had a clue about sanitation.

    As with liberals you guys only tell half the story.

    Yes they have been washing their hands for a long time but not with soap.

    Romans had public baths well before Islam existed.

    • Replies: @Turk 152
  201. @gatobart

    Subhumans are only interested in gib me dats, not self-reliance. The Welfare State of Dysgenics is the very foundation of shitlibs’ political views.

    • Replies: @gatobart
  202. @Crescent Moon

    Oh no, a single tear is running down my left eye. Poor little liberal subhuman scum cannot poison their fatherland anymore! The tragedy!

    Can’t wait for the Taliban rapetrain to roll over these wannabe femmnicunt sluts.

  203. @Wokechoke

    It is good so!

    The world will finally rid itself of the kosher, homosexual, pedophilic cancer called America.
    Niggers will bulldoze (((Arlington))). Spics will blast (((mount Rushmore))). NO MORE LIBERALISM!

  204. notbe says:
    @Crescent Moon

    I have this nagging feeling that these vox populi interviews with third worlders are usually written in advance in the journalists den back in good old new york city or london

    This so-called girl is talking a wee too much like what an american female university student would say- and is talking too much like a neocon Realistically, an afghan girl would know that the talibs would take over once the infidels would leave, looking back no suprise there

    Anyways its nice to know, from the girls statement that third worlders have no problem with globohomo going to their homeland and taking over for twenty years-I mean who could resist that?-well perhaps the Taliban but the Taliban is in its final days according to 2001 Time magazine I, for one, welcome our new globohomo overlords

  205. Half Back says: • Website
    @John Johnson

    Fair points, however near the end they knew the US was serious or were going to invade -the Taliban wanted to keep power and thus were willing to hand him over, whatever you say of Taliban they carry themselves with honor, medieval sure enough , so asking for evidence was the prelude to really handing Bin Laden over. The biggest question regarding the US war in Afghanistan was trying to define a purpose, as with most ‘invaders’ the US was not fully welcome (whatever the press may say) so was it a strategic position in the sub continent, nation building, Raj like Governor Government, (which it was ) so the whole endeavor died before it was born- due to lack of purpose. If you want to know what lack of purpose looks like , feast your eyes on ( In Joe’s words ) “300,000 Afghanistan Army with a air force” against a ‘rag band freedom fighters’ , outgunned six to one, little weapons but a force willing to fight unlike the Afghanistan army.

    • Agree: Justrambling
    • Replies: @John Johnson
  206. @Anon

    Biden = Andropov

    Let me remind you that Andropov had kidney disease, but was not a mental wreck. If you want Soviet analogies, Biden is Chernenko. When Andropov died and Chernenko became the general secretary of the party, there was a joke in the USSR: “the work on artificial kidney was stopped; the work on artificial intelligence was started”.

    • Agree: Ron Unz
    • Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
  207. notbe says:
    @John Johnson

    except the talibs did offer to turn bin laden over to be tried by a commitee of impartial, neutral islamic jurors-the us refused that offer

    …hmm methinks an impartial trial could reveal a bit too much about 911

    nah better spend a trillion on a war for oil and rare earths in which the us doesnt get any oil or rare earths rights and in the middle of that war make up a false story that bin laden was killed by SEALS

    -of course, real life SEALS would have to die in a helicopter crash so as to preserve the integrity of that story but thems the breaks…those neocons are certainly geniuses

    “In fact we were too nice…”- im sure those murdered SEALS are laughing at you right now up there

    • Replies: @John Johnson
  208. Turk 152 says:
    @John Johnson

    The history of sanitation in the west, or lack thereof, is a fascinating subject and there are Netflix documentaries on the cesspool that was London and Paris, a mere 150 years ago. You can also look at surgical practices between Islam and Western Medicine in the past, Western Surgery was considered a death sentence and you would have been far better off being treated in the Muslim world; another fascinating topic and digression.
    Here is a reference: https://theconversation.com/what-islamic-hygienic-practices-can-teach-when-coronavirus-is-spreading-133221.

  209. @Magnus8788

    Sorry, my mistake. Mine was meant to be LOL. I was convulsing with laughter and hit the wrong option.

    • LOL: Marshal Marlow
  210. @AnonfromTN

    Also true of Japan and other Asian non-Muslim countries.

  211. Anon[107] • Disclaimer says:

    BBC CNN MDNBC and Fox all are portraying apocalypse , Mesaaging American mind with Hollywood type of skit on Taliban behaviors and spoofing old false narrative as intelligence and promoting some kind
    action .Their aim is to send troops back in one way or another . They are again conditioning American mind .

    Shitty little country Estonia wants UN deliberate on the new Taliban government. They must have been handsomely by UK and USA to try whatever anyone can
    .

    Suddenly one is flooded with visuals of American respect and prestige – the words one time reserved for Arab countries as features of failed nation’s anger – being challenged .

  212. After the American defeat in Afghanistan, are we going to witness the imposition of sanctions on the victors by the vanquished?

    • Replies: @Marshal Marlow
  213. Smith says:
    @Unit472

    Yeah, this ain’t Saigon.

    This is Saigon on 4x forward.

  214. Joe Wong says:
    @Jim H

    You can’t rule by running away with tail between the legs, please stay.

    • Replies: @GomezAdddams
  215. gatobart says:
    @HeebHunter

    What is interesting is that the Amerrican retreat only means for her the possible lack of education chances in the future but she doesn’t seem to have thougth on less agreable things Afghan women won’t have anymore:

    a) being violently awakened in the middle of the night by U.S. soldiers kicking their doors down and taking their husbands, brothers, sons away to an uncertain future into military interrogation/torture rooms and prisons, for whatever reason, real or imaginary, the foreign occupier sees fit. Apart of course from being themselves gropped all over by the same soldiers.

    b) having their villages bombed and/or shot at with the loss of human life and property, houses and livestock. Being constantly under surveillance by U.S. satellites and drones and always under the threat of becoming collateral damage when the brass in Washington decide that, for example, they can’t lose the chance to take out a Taliban boss who is visiting their village at some moment in time.

    As for feminism, the problem is not feminism itself but the way it has developed in the US. I got my comment deleted in the very liberal site of RT when I wrote this but the fact is that feminism in the U.S. is extremely confrontational, it actually teaches women to hate men, to be at war with them, not to become their pals and collaborators, like it happened in the country in the South Cone where I was born and grew up. I have the impression that in the U.S. the movement for women’s rights was taken over from its very beginnings by rabid man-hating lesbians and they are the one who have given it their own mood and tone and are still using it for their own agenda of turning most women into the same thing they are. And I can say this because in my own South American country I was an Engineering student in the 70s and during the years I was at the university I saw the number of girls coming to take the career shooting from 4% to about 25% to 30% and all that without a hitch. Quite the opposite, the guys were happy to see our school fill up with girls. Also, i don’t remember ever having seen in the news from overthere those pictures, or the footage, of thousands of angry women marching in the streets shouting abuse at a “male owned society” because their work is more subtle, far subtler, they work their men, their milieu, they made themselves available to society and above all, needed. I don’t say it was all perfect, that it happened without a hitch, but the fact is, nowadays women can be whatever they want in the South Cone, even president of the nation, and they haven’t needed to die or fight in the street or even get angry at men to get all that. It was the natural development of society, at some point in time women wanted to be also this or that, and society said, why not. On the other hand, for example, in the U.S., despite all the babbling about women rights and feminism, they can’t even elect their first woman president at a time when many if not most of Latin American countries have had already one, some of them decades ago, and when even India and Pakistan had their own Indira Gandhi and Benazir Butho.

    That is why Afghan women don’t have many reasons to lament having lost their mentor/teacher at woman rights considering that the one they had is the worst possible in the world.

  216. @Half Back

    Fair points, however near the end they knew the US was serious or were going to invade -the Taliban wanted to keep power and thus were willing to hand him over, whatever you say of Taliban they carry themselves with honor, medieval sure enough

    Carry themselves with honor? Are you serious? What is honorable about beheading someone over a rumor? Or how about grabbing little girls and telling them UR MY WIFE.

    so asking for evidence was the prelude to really handing Bin Laden over.

    What would they accept as truth that the US could provide? Only Osama making a confession would be enough. Everything else they would deride as false evidence.

    Osama later admitted to it so I guess the US should have waited until then? What difference would it make?

    If you want to know what lack of purpose looks like , feast your eyes on ( In Joe’s words ) “300,000 Afghanistan Army with a air force” against a ‘rag band freedom fighters’ , outgunned six to one, little weapons but a force willing to fight unlike the Afghanistan army.

    The Taliban collapsed quickly when fighting marines.

    The problem was with Afghan security forces. They didn’t have the motivation to fight.

    Like I said we should have brought in mercenaries or just ground pounded them after taking Osama. I never agreed with the nation building nonsense but that doesn’t mean we should cut and run like cowards.

  217. @notbe

    except the talibs did offer to turn bin laden over to be tried by a commitee of impartial, neutral islamic jurors-the us refused that offer

    That was a ruse.

    They would just sentence him to house arrest where he would continue his war against the West.

    The Taliban thought they could play games with the US without serious consequence. They expected a special forces operation like Mogadishu and not a full invasion. That is what they gambled on.

    hmm methinks an impartial trial could reveal a bit too much about 911

    Well Osama already took credit for it so maybe you missed that
    https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/bin-laden-claims-responsibility-for-9-11-1.513654

    • Replies: @gatobart
    , @notbe
    , @Sparkon
  218. @Turk 152

    The history of sanitation in the west, or lack thereof, is a fascinating subject and there are Netflix documentaries on the cesspool that was London and Paris, a mere 150 years ago.

    Yes early industrial London was disgusting but that doesn’t mean that Muslims have always been ahead on sanitation. The Romans had aqueducts well before Christ and Muhammad.

    What do you think Arab cities smelled like before they adopted Western plumbing?

    Muslims try to take pride in the weirdest things. Islam holds that the ideal society existed in the past so I don’t see why they even need flush toilets, running water, refrigeration or anything else the evil infidels came up with.

    LETS KILL THE INFIDELS BUT FIRST I NEED TO CHECK MY FB WHILE ON THE TOILET

    MUHAMMAD GAVE ME A LIKE

    • Replies: @Turk 152
    , @Druid55
  219. @John Johnson

    Thank you for showing us powerful American reasoning that simply cannot be countered.

    MAGA!

  220. gatobart says:
    @John Johnson

    What is honorable about beheading someone over a rumor?

    What is honorable about killing millions of Vietnamese, Cambodian and Laotians in a war over the lie that some little wooden sampan had attacked with gunfire the steel-made USS Maddok in 1964, killing 58.000 and maiming hundreds of thousands of their own in the process…?

    What is honorable about destroying every city in North Korea and killing up to 20% of its population with carpet bombing of napalm and white phosphorus…?

    What is honorable about murdering half a million Iraqi children with sanctions (as recognized by Madeleine “It Was Worth It” Albright) and then bombing and invading the country, killing now one million, over a lie, that Saddam Hussein had WMDs…?

    “The Taliban collapsed quickly when fighting marines”

    Completely false. Either you are purposely lying or you simply don’t know what are you talking about. The Taliban has never been an army in the traditional sense but a guerrilla movement as many others in History fighting a foreign occupation of their nation or tribal territory. For that reason they can only collapse if they come out of hiding and they go all out in a face to face with their enemy. Of course they rarely do that, as their main purpose is to carry out a war of attrition meant to weaken and isolate that enemy until the moment it has been brought to size so it can be taken on (as the case was with the Sandinistas in Nicaragua in 1979 face to the Somoza’s army) or simply when it is forced to leave (as the U.S. is doing now in Afghanistan). I don’t mention the Vietcong as an example because what the Vietcong did during the Tet Offensive of 1968 was the first option I mentioned, to commit suicide by coming out in force for an all-out battle, and doing so it was practically obliterated, leaving the NVA to end the fight.

    Anyway, as said, the Taliban couldn’t have collapsed because they would never go for an all-out battle but they’d rather use the old and proven hit-and-run guerrilla tactics as Che Guevera (or that was Mao) dictated: to try to win strategic superiority in the long term by fighting the enemy when tactically in advantage (typically, hundreds of guerrilla fighters ambushing a 20-men patrol) and withdrawing when tactically in disadvantage (when more troops, warplanes, tanks, come to back the 20-men patrol). That is how a guerrilla could sustain itself and keep on the fight for decades waiting for the morale and resolve of the enemy to weaken to the point when it crashes through the basement which has been the case just now with Amerricans.

    • Agree: notbe, Druid55
    • Replies: @John Johnson
  221. Half Back says: • Website
    @John Johnson

    The Taliban collapsed quickly when fighting marines. JJ.
    No the CIA guided b52 to carpet bomb the shit out of the Taliban forces. Now if the Taliban had ‘stingers’ maybe the play wouldn’t have worked out so easliy as it did.
    Honor. Sometimes you just have to admit the MSM tells the opposite of what happens.
    The Taliban made a deal with Trump/ and at this stage they could massacre ‘marines now if they wanted too, but they DON”T, I wonder why, after all, what was the death rate of innocent Afghanis as McCristol said, ‘they killed a lot of innocents- so by the rules the Taliban should massacre the marines their now- but they don’t because they honor their word.
    Now sure their religion and custom’s are not to my licking but it’s their country- so but out.
    Now to the vexed question of responsibility of 9/11, well a book could be written with all kinds of perpetrators. Some with forward chapters of who new what before it happened. I shouldn’t surprise you that as high up to Aides President knew it would happen and wanted it to happen so they could put their geo political plans and wars into action. Your foolish to think otherwise. I supplied evidence that they (the political elites of USA ) knew and approved to the towers destruction. So what evidence should the Taliban of 9/11 give…. Dancing photographing Israeli’s before the 1st tower was hit. What about the lack investigating and follow up tips ( Arabs pilots ) The Israeli’s knew before hand and are masters at supply idiots patsies ( which did happen ) Which evidence do the Taliban show? But as others have said in this tread they were ‘honest’ in the handing over Bin Laden. It’s a mute point now anyway-.

  222. gatobart says:
    @John Johnson

    “The Taliban thought they could play games with the US without serious consequence.”

    I agree. The consequences have been earthshaking in this second case of a hasty Amerrican retreat from a country they invaded in fifty years. In Saigon in 1975 they plucked people out in choppers landing on the roof on the U.S. Embassy. In Kabul 2021 it is the whole Embassy they plucked out and took to the international airport. Quite a change.

    In any case you are as clueless as that four or five-star U.S. army general who during the talks in Paris approached a North Vietnamese delegate and said to him: We won every single battle, so how come we lost the war…? The Vietnamese only smiled and said: That was irrelevant.

    The poor man, after all his years in the Vietnam War he still didn’t know what a guerrilla war was.

    • Agree: Druid55
    • Replies: @ungdo
  223. Malla says:
    @raju

    I never promoted no Gandhi as God. He had his pros and cons. As far as the untouchables, you are right, I guess you are talking about the Simon Commission. Anyways Ambedkar, the leader of the lower castes met with the Commission, for which Gandhi called him a “traitor”.
    As far as Gandhi was doing the bidding of the British Empire, the British Empire was planning to (with some opposition within the ranks) wrap up its India operations anyways. Read the Mongaue-Clemsford Reforms. India was kept in the Empire for a little long, to help in the Empire destroying Third Reich Germany. Jews were screeching and screaming about “evul” British ruling over Indians and were working full time to destroy the British Empire but before WW2, they were dancing all around being proud of the great British Empire. Once their most dangerous enemy Hitler was destroyed, the British Empire was “pointless” according to them and was to be eventually dissolved. Which turned out good for Britain economically but of course, reduced London’s global power position w.r.t Washington and Moscow.
    I am not sure about Gandhi not getting the opportunity to meet Hitler, But Subhash Chandra met Hitler and got Hitler’s support. The Indian National Anthem was played for the first time in an official position in NS Germany, by a 100% German band.

  224. notbe says:
    @John Johnson

    well it was a commitee to be named by the organization of islamic cooperation which is a fairly multinational bunch

    with the cbc video-who knows what kind of editing software went into the creation of such videos…but if true the commitee of impartial jurors could have asked bin laden about that but unfortunately that plan was scotched by the usa

    anyways the canadian broadcasting corp is not really a professional news source just like air canada is not really a competent airline or the rcmp is not really a professional police force

  225. Malla says:
    @notbe

    well the afghans beat anybody who didnt pay them respect or treated them unfairly-the brits

    Actually it were the Afghans who did not pay Brits respect (by a sudden sneak attack and massacre) and Brits went in and took their revenge. Occupied most of the country and killed their enemies.

    • Replies: @notbe
  226. Anon[376] • Disclaimer says:

    Slowly but surely, the scenario predicted by the Fatima prophecy of 1917 is unfolding before our very eyes. I myself never imagined that the “errors of Russia” would spread to the United States under the guise of “political correctness”, but it’s happened. The neo-Bolsheviks have even succeeded in hijacking the American presidency!

    Only this prayer will bring lasting peace:

    [MORE]

    “Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the Father, send now Your Spirit over the earth.

    Let the Holy Spirit live in the hearts of all nations, that they may be preserved from degeneration, disaster and war.

    May the Lady of All Nations, who once was Mary, be our Advocate.

    Amen.”

    FYI: exactly ten years before communism came to an end in Eastern Europe in 1989, Pope John-Paul II made the following invocation during an outdoor Mass in Warsaw (June 2nd 1979):

    “And I cry — I who am a Son of the land of Poland and who am also Pope John Paul II — I cry from all the depths of this Millennium, I cry on the vigil of Pentecost:

    Let your Spirit descend.
    Let your Spirit descend,
    and renew the face of the earth,
    the face of this land.

    Amen.”

  227. A USG spokesperson (I believe it was John Kirby) denied that there would be a “Saigon Moment” in Kabul. Here is a video of today August 16, showing just that:

  228. @Justrambling

    Almost certainly. Even if the Taliban obeyed to the letter its agreement with the US, it’s inevitable that the some excuse will be found to freeze all foreign Afghanistan government assets to “hold them in trust for the Afghan people”.

  229. @PJ London

    I think the India/Pakistan split worked really well compared to the inevitable genocide that would have happened had they stayed one country. Short sharp pain rather than never ending pain is a good trade.

    • Replies: @PJ London
  230. @Jimmy le Blanc

    The Chinese want a land corridor to Iran (highway and pipeline)
    and Koh-e-Baba (the largest iron ore deposit in Asia and the strategic prize).

    As the US´sole intention from the beginning was to preclude exactly that,
    it is fair to say they lost.
    And as the “Chinks” won´t bother sending “womens´rights activists” at gun
    and drone point, they´ll be eminently more tolerable;
    of course they will build roads – if only to give the finger to the US Navee.

  231. Ed Case says:

    Here’s some Aussie atrocity propaganda, from our comical Deputy Prime Minister:

    Mr Joyce said the issue in Afghanistan was of “utmost seriousness”.

    “People are being murdered and maimed, women are getting eyes gouged out, girls are being sent into sexual slavery for the Taliban troops, gay people are being murdered,” he told The Sydney Morning Herald and The Age.

    https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/joyce-counsels-canavan-for-unnecessary-conflation-of-climate-and-taliban-20210816-p58j6h.html

  232. @Crescent Moon

    Americans don’t care about Afghan women; if they did they would have supported the Soviets in Afghanistan. Just propaganda lies as usual.

    • Agree: notbe
    • Replies: @notbe
  233. @Turk 152

    That’s history and what’s religion got to do with it? The poorer Muslim countries are quite unhygienic. And Mesopotamians built sewers 4,000 bc. – and they weren’t Muslims.

  234. Smith says:

    I’m surprised no one has made Dune reference:

    Because this is pretty darn close to Dune.

    • Replies: @notbe
  235. Passer by says:

    Crazy scenes ongoing at Kabul Airport

    Desperate Afghans are hanging on the plane tires and falling from the sky near the Kabul airport.

  236. Maddaugh says:
    @Levtraro

    I think that you and WJ are missing the point of the soldier’s gear: it is not there to help win any war or make the soldier more effective, it is there because it was PAID to be there (all those corporations need to sell all that gear).

    LOL. Shit, you know that is so obvious but of course I was so busy being frustrated at yet another shit show I missed the point.

    I got a good chuckle from your comment but you are so right. I guess the next kit requirement will be small 2 wheel cart attached to the soldier by a harness where he can pull even more “essential” equipment needed to lose the next war. He will in fact become a rickshaw grenadier.

    Some clever Chinaman is probably designing one right now with a small fridge for beer, a Hibachi for barbecues and shelving for cranberry sauce and potatoes, spare high heels and ceremonial red dress.

    What an unholy fucking mess.

    • Replies: @Levtraro
  237. PJ London says:
    @Marshal Marlow

    I beg to differ.
    For a millennia they had existed as “Indians” even though there were religious differences.
    Yes there were and are some minor outbreaks of violence both within India (Moslem, Hindu-Sikh-et al) and in Pakistan (Sunni, Hindus, Christians, Sikhs, Shias and Ahmadis) but by making them separate, they have increased the level to Nuclear weapon level.
    Nehru refused to be second to Patel and yet the Muslim League whilst united was in the minority against the other parties.
    If not for Nehru, India would still be united and the 4,000-6,000 killed in the partition would not have died.

    • Replies: @Marshal Marlow
  238. @El Dato

    Ah yes … the Unocal pipeline and the Central Asian Adventure;
    was it really only 20 years ago?

    – I admit to always thinking Karzai even looked like a shithouse fly
    so it seems I have to eat crow: This time he was orders of magnitude more
    presidential than the other guy 😉

  239. @Passer by

    LOL. You can even hear people on the ground laughing.

  240. Levtraro says:
    @Maddaugh

    You totally exploited my take to the full, hilarious, the rickshaw grenadier with a small fridge, lol, thanks for a good laugh.

  241. Anonymous[383] • Disclaimer says:
    @MLK

    Of course, they don’t need public support for just like Trump, there are always enough fools to vote for them, and they do and then try to turn it into the second coming bringing all kinds of make believe stories with them.

    As the man said, those who elect politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims…. but accomplices, which they are but lack the guts to admit it instead spending their times on keyboards telling the world how tough they are.

  242. Turk 152 says:
    @John Johnson

    Yes, but I am not Muslim and am not trying to do return to 600 AD. I am trying to point out verifiable historical facts which apparently contradict your ideology.

    Romans had aqueducts, so? How does that negate ritualizing cleansing with water as being beneficial to hygiene, sanitation and disease?

    Besides how many of those Muslim homes which you seem to know so much about have you actually visited?

  243. @Unit472

    Better to have them die in a bloodbath

    That’s not nice. It is, after all, THEIR fucking country – so they had a right to try to influence the “direction of travel”, as the business-types say.

    The poor naive bastards couldn’t have known they’d be sold out by the hordes of Zio neo-con filth in DC who created the whole fucking disaster in the first place. And the sellout of their goat-herder blood-cousins was probably the Jew neo-con plan from the very beginning. There are plenty of lessons for everyone involved to learn – but they don’t start in Afghanistan. The dark and satanic power in Washington is a whole lot closer than that.

  244. @Haxo Angmark

    Breaking news on the morning of the 16th August – Kabul has fallen with hardly a shot fired and the President has run away – with money packed into cars and a helicopter ! LOL Spot on, Haxo !!

    (But I meant the President of Afghanistan, of course. Not… umm… you know).

  245. @anonymous

    Spare me your vomit-inducing Islamic garbage.

    You are a fool. An ignorant, naive, religiously-brainwashed, woman-hating, disgustingly hypocritical fool.

    “I believe… that God is a sadist. And he probably doesn’t even know it”

    – – Cross of Iron, 1975.

  246. notbe says:
    @Malla

    yeah true but they left in the end

  247. notbe says:
    @Smith

    the problem is that in the end EVERYTHING becomes a Dune reference

  248. notbe says:
    @Commentator Mike

    in 1978, the last normal year in Afghanistan, miniskirts were worn openly on the streets of Kabul-then Zbig started thinking

    • Agree: Commentator Mike
  249. If you watch the scenes from the airport this is worse than Saigon, a lot worse.

    • Replies: @Maddaugh
  250. Sparkon says:
    @John Johnson

    First statements and first news reports are usually the most valuable because they are made before censorship, pressure, and outright lies enter the picture.

    On Sept. 17, 2001, Osama bin Laden issued a statement denying responsibility for the attacks on the World Trade Center in New York City.

    Bin Laden says he wasn’t behind attacks

    September 17, 2001 Posted: 11:21 AM EDT (1521 GMT)

    DOHA, Qatar (CNN) — Islamic militant leader Osama bin Laden, the man the United States considers the prime suspect in last week’s terrorist attacks on New York and Washington, denied any role Sunday in the actions believed to have killed thousands.

    https://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/inv.binladen.denial/

    But bin Laden’s denial of any role in the WTC attacks, and his subsequent death, were soon swept under the carpet by fake audio and a phony video tape where the confessing imposter looks nothing like bin Laden.

    Of course, upon hearing of the WTC attacks, CIA Director George Tenet exclaimed:

    “This has bin Laden’s fingerprints all over it.”

    Seemingly, one doesn’t get to be head of the CIA by waiting for all the facts to come in, or by engaging in deliberate and methodical analysis. That approach certainly wouldn’t have George Tenet’s fingerprints anywhere to be seen. Rather, his fingerprints would be all over propping up the patsy.

    And so, on October 7, 2001, the USAF kicked off a massive bombing campaign against Afghanistan called Operation Enduring Freedom. Pres. Bush said the attacks had the terrorists on the run, including Osama bin Laden, and they were going to “smoke him out of his cave,” according to Pres. Bush.

    https://www.indianz.com/News/archive.asp?ID=pol/10122001-1&day=10/12/01

    Here’s Rumsfeld and Russert waxing menacingly about Osama’s secret mountain fortress…

    Russert: The Times of London did a graphic…This is it. This is a fortress. This is very much a complex, multi-tiered, bedrooms and offices on the top…secret exits on the side and on the bottom, cut deep to avoid thermal detection so when our planes fly to try to determine if any human beings are in there, it’s built so deeply down and embedded in the mountain and the rock it’s hard to detect. And over here, valleys guarded…by some Taliban soldiers. A ventilation system to allow people to breathe and to carry on. An arms and ammunition depot. And … exits leading into it and the entrances large enough to drive trucks and cars and even tanks. And it’s own hydroelectric power to help keep lights on, even computer systems and telephone systems. It’s a very sophisticated operation.

    Rumsfeld: Oh, you bet. This is serious business. And there’s not one of those. There are many of those. And they have been used very effectively. And I might add, Afghanistan is not the only country that has gone underground. Any number of countries have gone underground. The tunneling equipment that exists today is very powerful. It’s dual use. It’s available across the globe. And people have recognized the advantages of using underground protection for themselves.

    …and…a… mine shaft gap?

    Osama bin Laden’s mountain fortress, according to the Times of London

    With all the anguished caterwauling now about the “fall” of Afghanistan, let’s not forget the big lies that got us into this mess to begin with.

    • Replies: @Brad Anbro
  251. Maddaugh says:
    @Commentator Mike

    Biden and Fauci should remind them to social distance AND wear masks. These Jihadists are going to spread the Delta !

    • Replies: @Dave Bowman
  252. ungdo says:
    @gatobart

    US Army Col. Summers said to N. Vietnamese counterpart ” you never defeated us in pitched battles ” , trying to win consolation prize . In truth , there were almost never big setpiece battles , the VN
    studiously avoided exposing themselves to US firepower . Contrarywise , they attacked usually small scale by stealth or ambush , when the odds favored them ; statistically , as 80% of engagements were initiated by them , they usually won them . Now , it has become historical hard fact that the Americains won the big battles (B.S.)

    • Replies: @gatobart
  253. @Druid55

    Taliban are mostly Afghan people though. So the issue is the ones who went along with the US invasion were of smaller number and most were just for the cash and other benefits

  254. Druid55 says:
    @Arthur MacBride

    Im Muslim and was against this war from day one. Im also a student of history and predicted was has just transpired, bozo! So just bugger off with your assumptions!

    • Troll: Arthur MacBride
    • Replies: @Arthur MacBride
  255. @Maddaugh

    These Jihadists are going to spread the Delta

    That’s certainly what I’m hoping.

  256. @El Dato

    I remember when the James Bond film “License to Kill” came out… They were portrayed as the “good guys” and helped James Bond against the Soviets.

  257. @Druid55

    You’re Muslim and you support the satanist empire recruiting Afghan Muslims to kill other Afghan Muslims in Afghanistan ?

    You a Muslim have the name Druid ?

    You are either a Liar or a Poser. Or maybe a Troll. Perhaps a Heroin user.

    Your language indicates any of those options.

    But not a Historian.

    • Replies: @Marshal Marlow
  258. Druid55 says:
    @John Johnson

    You’re just a “johnson”!

  259. @Unit472

    What do you mean China got a taste of how tough the Vietnamese army was???? The PLA was the ones helping Vietnam against the French first and then the US. Of course they knew. That’s why when they showed that they could advance deep into Vietnam (though admittedly taking a lot of losses) – they drew back and then held the border regions – until 1991. They showed the Vietnamese guerilla warfare and so knew what would be the result. It would have been dumb. The two sides spent the next decade shelling each other – until Vietnam left Cambodia – and then a border agreement was signed. So no – it is not the same thing at all.

    • Replies: @Smith
    , @notbe
  260. @John Johnson

    That is incorrect… It was a delicate issue and you could not rush such a thing. But the US cowboy mentality would not allow for such contingencies. Either way you cut it – it took 10 years to supposedly find and kill Bin Laden. Horrible return on investment any which way you cut it. It was pride that led the US to invade. Pride came before a fall…

  261. @Passer by

    A whole lot of laughter going on… I see people jogging and waving and smiling. I hear the people filming laughing. It seems more like a game than people really terrified.

  262. Smith says:
    @showmethereal

    Aksually, they were not fighting the PAVN, just the local militia since at the time the main force was busy liberating Cambodia.

    The objective of the PLA was to lure the PAVN back to Hanoi in order to defend it, but since the PLA suffered too many losses on the way, they just went back to the borders and employed economic sanctions and siege warfare for the next 10 years.

    After 10 years, the PAVN left Cambodia when the job is done i.e. establishing a new government in Cambodia and put an end to Pol Pot banditry.

    So like the US army, the PLA failed their strategical objective. They can boast about killcount and how many people they starve via economic sanctions tho, again just like the USA.

    • Replies: @Showmethereal
  263. @PJ London

    I don’t think they had existed as ‘Indians’. Indeed, the whole place was called the ‘subcontinent’ for that very reason. To western eyes the subcontinent wasn’t something that fit the idea of a nation state, rather it was merely a collection of entirely independent and sometimes fractious principalities, each with their own foreign policy etc. I’m guessing that the stresses of partition along religious lines actually forced group identity, which in turn provided the fuel for the formation of two reasonably coherent nation states.

    We’ll never know though.

  264. gatobart says:
    @ungdo

    Both sides were playing different wars in Vietnam and the ones who fought the real war were the ones to win in the end. While the U.S. brass were still fighting their last war, the Germans in Europe and the Japanese in the Pacific islands in their imagination; while they were still thinking they were opening the way to victory in The Bulge, Normandy, Guadalcanal, Iwo Jima, Okinawa; while they were still carpet-bombing German cities in their minds, now with the Asian forest rain playing that role; while they were still thinking that the guys who win the decisive battles retain the battlefield and so, by advancing into enemy territory, they will be set to win the war–while the U.S. brass were fighting this past war, I said, the Vietnamese nationalists only wanted them to vacate their country, to go home, to leave them alone. They didn’t want to win battles or conquer any land; that was theirs anyway, they were home and they were trying to chase away intruders…! And so their war strategy was simple: to inflict as much pain as possible to the invaders, to make them pay a heavy price in and damages and in losses, in dead and wounded, so that their citizens back home, the voters, the parents and wives of those falling for empire, or being mutilated for life, would finally say to their leaders in Washington: “Ok, enough is enough, bring the boys home!”. That is all what Ho Chi Minh had in mind and his master plan. That is something the U.S. brass and most U.S. politicians never quite understood, that the U.S, couldn’t possibly win that so called war. And the rest of the world was with Vietnam on this. Most of mankind agreed that the U.S. had no business being in Vietnam. So much so that not even the staunchest U.S. allies wanted to send their own troops to fight in that war, at least openly and officially, with the Australian government being the infamous exception, sending 60.000 troops total.

    I was a teenager then and as I saw every single night in the news scenes of the war when coming home from school, scenes of GIs opening their way which machetes into the rain forest like in Platoon or the B52s pounding the jungle like in AN (I still remember the sounds of the bomb explosions like big steel doors in a giant hangar being violently shut close). And as almost everyone else in this world, I had to think about the poor people receiving all that on their heads and thinking also: When are these crazy bastards gonna get it that they got no business being there, when are they gonna leave that poor people alone…? Of course, the most famous, most chanted, slogan around the world during those years came to be Yankee Go Home. Ah, happy times…

  265. @AnonfromTN

    Biden, when interviewed on the withdrawal Afghan, was not only not “a mental wreck”, but spoke the type of clear, calm sense that you rarely find in the hysterical, overblown low stakes politics of our era.

    • Replies: @gatobart
    , @Art Deco
  266. gatobart says:
    @Triteleia Laxa

    Great. Just what Amerrica needs now in so demanding times as those we live in, times of the fall of the Amerrican empire. A U.S. president who speaks with calm and clarity and who doesn’t lose his poise when trying to explain the latest, devastating, screw up of his administration. JFK would have loved to have that after BOP..!

  267. @Arthur MacBride

    Oh well said. Words as sharp as a scalpel.

  268. @Sparkon

    And don’t forget – the Taliban was willing to hand over Osama bin Laden, if the USA could furnish PROOF that bin Laden was connected to 9/11 – Bush’s response being that the USA does not negotiate with terrorists. But, of course, there was NO PROOF that Osama bin Laden was connected with 9/11. The FBI said as much…

    But it’s not just (the) Bush(es). Every U.S. president, since the murder of John F. Kennedy has been (and currently IS) a war criminal. They ALL have much blood on their hands…

  269. @Joe Wong

    As is Afghanistan today will be Taiwan in short distant future —-USA is a stauch defender of the countries it invades and rules———-Cai Ing Wen has her place chesen in California –next to Nancy Pelosi’s….Chiang Kai shek was another phoney—big uniform but did NOT have the will of the people—

  270. notbe says:
    @showmethereal

    actually there were several conventional set piece tank artillery battles in that unfortunate chinese vietnamese war-the PLA generally getting the far, far worse of it leading to the withdrawal

    • Replies: @Showmethereal
  271. gatobart says:
    @Jimmy le Blanc

    “The Chinese certainly won’t care about the lives of girls and women, or building schools and roads”

    Says the guy from the country (or from one of its minion states) that has been bombing Third World countries by the dozens since WW2 and even before that, flattening cities, blowing roads and bridges and murdering their people by the millions, in Asia, Africa and Central America, killing not only the girls and women but also the kids, the babies, the elderly and even the sick in their hospital beds when intentionally bombing clincs as hospitals such as those managed by the Medicins Sans Frontieres organization.

    “The Chinks will ruthlessly exploit Afghanistan based on a completely sober and unemotional cost/benefit analysis. They’ll probably harvest blood and organs from the populace.”

    Evildoers see evildoing everywhere.

    Nothing more appropriate as a response to that mouth foaming rant than the old saying. That is how Amerricans and their White European vassals project their own racism, brutality and arrogance unto others. Of course the Chinese don’t even deserve the basic, elementary, respect of being treated by their real demonym. Even a single and short comment like that is more than enough to expose in all his nakedness the bloodthirsty troglodyte who exterminated most of the natives of the North American continent to steal their land and who then went on to try to do the same in a global scale. By any chance, were you staring at the mirror when righting such a hatred-charged diatribe…? It would make sense.

  272. @Smith

    Actually I agree with you on this… Except the Chinese didnt brag about kill count or sanctions. In the end pf the 10 years though China did achieve its strategic objective. China never wanted to control of Hanoi – nor was it seeking regime change.. Just to remind Hanoi it couldnt have free reign in the area – especially in Cambodia. You can calll Deng arrogant – but his purpose was stated to just teach Hanoi a little lesson. China was never going to attempt to control Vietnam. It was also a warning to the USSR at the time – which is why the US worked with China and provided intelligence on Soviet troop movements.
    But it definitely showed China it needed to adapt new tactics – especially as relates to supply lines.

    But China is patient – not a cowboy. When Vietnam left Cambodia – the land was restored to the Vietnam side and there was peace. It was an unfortunate altercation but such was the geopolitics of the time.

    • Replies: @Smith
  273. @notbe

    You are correct on the losses but if losses alone were an issue China wouldn’t be China. It would have been carved up a long time. The object was never to take over Vietnam though. So for the purpose of “teaching a lesson” – the losses were indeed too much. So the strategy changed to pull back… But the point was the PLA did indeed hold Vietnamese territory for the next decade and there was still skirmishes. The official border settlement was held when they pulled out of Cambodia. So comparing the US and Chinese objectives and results in disputes with Vietnam are not remotely close. But there is no question China had to rethink afterwards as things didnt go as smoothly as planned especialy related to communication among forces.. Lets not forget that even in the 1980’s it took naval action against Vietnam in the Paracel islands so China never backed off… It just changed strategy.

  274. Smith says:
    @Showmethereal

    Yeah, congrats for China to attack Vietnam to defend genocidal Pol Pot and its regime.

    And no, since China failed to protect him, I don’t think it achieves that objective either. All it results to is chinese committing war crimes or supporting people that commit war crimes and ethnic minorities (vietnamese and chinese included) being cleansed off Cambodia, Vietnam gets on pretty swell with friendly and stabilized neighbors.

    • Replies: @Showmethereal
    , @Smith
  275. Art Deco says:
    @Triteleia Laxa

    1. The contractors servicing Afghan military equipment were withdrawn.
    2. Air cover was withdrawn.
    3. Some Afghan soldiers haven’t been paid in months.

    Doubt the 2,500 ground troops were all that salient.

    • Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
  276. @Art Deco

    The Afghan government had 20 years to prepare for this. They were also given tremendous resources. They frequently failed to pay their people and they frequently couldn’t maintain their aircraft. Only when the 2,500 US troops left did they collapse.

  277. @Smith

    Yes yes of course Vietnam is clean and innocent in your view. In any event fact is Vietnam left Cambodia and that is when Vietnam got its land back. It was about Cambodia – and the rest of the neighbors – not Pol Pot. In the same way China doesnt care jf its Ghani or the Taliban ruling Afghanistan. The picture is bigger than the leader.

    • Replies: @gatobart
  278. gatobart says:
    @Showmethereal

    I once met a refugee here in Canada who was coming from Vietnam or Cambodia, I don’t remember, but I do remember what he said to me was the reason why Vietnam had invaded Cambodia. It was for the forests, he said. Vietnam had been depleted of its forests by the Amerrican pyromaniacs and they still needed the wood and the timber, the rainforest, so they took it from Cambodia. I don’t know if this is true but that’s what he told me.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  279. @gatobart

    It is a very complicated issue… Some would say that… Some would say the USSR was backing them to takeover South East Asia one by one (including ASEAN leaders) … I don’t know the insights of Vietnam though to know what the leaders were thinking… But I’m sure “Smith” on this thread will say it was for altruistic reasons – lol… Or better yet he will say China caused them to do it – LOL

    • Replies: @Smith
    , @gatobart
  280. Smith says:
    @Smith

    Of course, the part when China attacked Vietnam when Pol Pot was in retreat had nothing to do with protecting Pol Pot.

    Oh well, we did our job.

  281. Smith says:
    @showmethereal

    Aksually, the one ASEAN leader that did it was Lee Kuan Yew from Singapore, who got heavy backing from the US, the others were also the Thai, who yet again, have heavy US backing.

    I’m sure it’s so complicated after all, it’s to protect Cambodian land, by sanctioning and starving Cambodian.

  282. gatobart says:
    @showmethereal

    One thing is not hard to understand, though, because of one basic principle of physics (Nature abhors the vacuum) that the shameful, humiliating withdrawal of the world hegemon from a good part of the Asian continent left an immense power vacuum in the region that interested parts tried to fill up. In any case, one of the main concerns of the (North) Vietnamese leadership after the fall of Saigon, if not THE main, was the reconstruction of the country, of its economy, a task for decades to come. That would have certainly forced Hanoi to be realistic and to give only secondary importance to geostrategic or geopolitical matters, as there was so much to be done (to feed the people, to rebuild their homes, the cities; to put to work the civil infrastructure, what was left of it; to take care of many thousands if not millions of war refugees, etc, etc. A task made at least simpler by the absence of any foreign hostile power ready to jump in, as China was still a friend and an ally.

    It was Vietnam`s turn to live now, in 1975 and beyond, what the whole of Europe had experienced in the aftermath of WW2 with the difference that the “benevolent` world power helping in the task would be two instead of one, China and the USSR and, as it was also the case in the original example, they were not there with completely altruistic intentions. In any case, ethnic tensions, some of which had been present for generations, started making felt their presences again with the new situation created by the end of the war against the last European occupier, a great factor for unity by itself. Check for example what Wikipedia says about the FULRO insurgency against every Vietnamese government/regime, something most people have never heard about:

    The FULRO insurgency against Vietnam was waged by the United Front for the Liberation of Oppressed Races (French: Front uni de lutte des races opprimées; abbreviated FULRO) against the South and North Vietnamese governments and the unified Socialist Republic of Vietnam. The FULRO insurgents represented the interests of minority Muslim and Hindu Cham, Christian Montagnards, and Buddhist Khmer Krom against the ethnic Kinh Vietnamese. They were supported and equipped by China and Cambodia according to those countries’ interests in the Indochina Wars.

    Check how many different ethnic groups for such a small piece of land. At the end the conflict with China was triggered by many different factors, politics, ideology, ethnic tensions, and one of these factors could have been also what my Cambodian/Vietnamese refugee alluded to. It could have been also another factor that the Hanoi “liked Moscow better than Beijing” at a time when the two world Communist powers were still in the long, ardours task of rebuilding bridges after their great schism of the 50s and 60s, when Beijing had confronted Moscow for having Khrushchev denounced Stalinism and embraced pacific coexistence with the U.S. Empire, a “difference of views” almost brought them to full scale war in he 60s (something many people tend to forget, that at the time both giants were fighting it our for the sympathies of the rest of the Socialist/Communist world). In the end is unlikely that the Chinese Vietnamese war of 1979 would have happened if only one or just a couple of those factors had been in play.

  283. Smith says:
    @gatobart

    The Sino-Vietnamese war of 1979 and the 10 years of sanctioning and starving vietnamese and cambodian are a war born of dirty politics and collusion between Deng Xiaopeng and Kissinger.

    The fact the chinese are still defending of it, and is still trying to say “China taught Vietnam a lesson” while Vietnam stabilized Cambodia means they have learned nothing from it.

    Karma weights heavily on them, Viets will continue to live on regardless of what they think.

  284. @gatobart

    What is honorable about killing millions of Vietnamese, Cambodian and Laotians in a war over the lie that some little wooden sampan had attacked with gunfire the steel-made USS Maddok in 1964, killing 58.000 and maiming hundreds of thousands of their own in the process…?

    So if I criticize the Taliban I must be on the side of bombing Cambodia? That doesn’t make any sense.

    This is type of us vs them thinking leads to irrational conclusions. I am against the Taliban and I was also against trying to turn the place into a democracy because I didn’t think it would work. That position has nothing to do with Vietnam or Cambodia.

    Completely false. Either you are purposely lying or you simply don’t know what are you talking about. The Taliban has never been an army in the traditional sense but a guerrilla movement as many others in History fighting a foreign occupation of their nation or tribal territory. For that reason they can only collapse if they come out of hiding and they go all out in a face to face with their enemy.

    They controlled most of the country and that collapsed within a year.

    So yes they collapsed when they went against marines.

    They held territory and operated multiple governments along with a structured military so I think it is you that needs the history lesson. They were not bush fighting guerrillas. Before the war they held all the major cities.

    • Replies: @gatobart
  285. antibeast says:

    What is missing from all this talk of the Sino-Vietnamese ‘War’ is the geopolitical context of the Cold War era. Remember that Nixon/Kissinger met Mao in Beijing which paved the way for Deng to stage his comeback after the death of Mao in 1976. Deng’s comeback coincided with Vietnam’s invasion of Cambodia in 1978, followed by the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1979. After the Vietnam War, the USA had become reluctant to get involved in another land war in Asia which was why the Yanks struck a deal with Deng to help ‘contain’ the USSR by arming the Mujahideen in Afghanistan as well as launching a punitive raid against Vietnam to force its withdrawal from Cambodia which occurred a decade later in 1988. The USSR also withdrew its troops from Afghanistan in 1989.

    ‘Smith’ is taking things too personally, ignoring the Cold War context of the Sino-Vietnamese ‘War’. The fact of the matter is that the USA, China and ASEAN had this fear — real or imagined — of the USSR dominating the whole of Asia after Vietnam’s invasion of Cambodia as well as the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. The USA and China had become ‘allies’ against the USSR as well as its satellite State of Vietnam due to the exigencies of the Cold War era which ended after Vietnam’s withdrawal from Cambodia and the USSR’s withdrawal from Afghanistan. The Yanks then turned against their erstwhile ‘ally’ — Deng — by sponsoring the ‘color’ revolution in Tiananmen in 1989. When the USA imposed sanctions against China after Tiananmen, Deng then patched up his differences with the Soviet Union until its collapse in 1991.

    • Thanks: Showmethereal
    • Replies: @Smith
    , @Showmethereal
  286. Smith says:
    @antibeast

    Because it’s showing height of chinese hypocrisy:
    – when China invades Tibet, it’s to stabilize and liberate it from serfdom, all is fine.
    – when Soviet gets invited to Afghanistan to help the communists there, China says it’s doing imperialism and invasion, while funding and helping mujahiden with the US
    – when Vietnam responds to Pol Pot massacre of Vietnamese in the southern border, same tune.

    On the diplomatic side:
    – when Kruschev decided to visit the USA and desired to coexist with the capitalist (in name only, Kruschev has never actually sold out), Mao denounced it as betraying the communist cause
    – then Mao decided to own the Soviet, by you guess it, inviting Nixon over and normalizing relationship with the US WHILE sanctioning the USSR and Vietnam (!!)
    – Deng went further, actually going into America and doing the same US trip as Kruschev did, except with even more extravagance.
    – now, if you ask the chinese, they desire peaceful coexistence with the US.

    Anyone who knows a little bit of historical facts of the Sino-Soviet split (the 60s-90s) knows how full of shit the chinese historian are.

    When this is pointed out, the chinese will go into full cope mode, congratulations, your treachery destroys the 2nd world. I guess the chinese can congratulate now since their deception destroys the USSR, declines the USA, now they can be the top dog.

    • Replies: @antibeast
    , @Showmethereal
  287. @gatobart

    Careful with the Vietnam references. I can imagine Smith’s forehead vein swollen and throbbing away. It might explode if you continue.

    Aksually, the one ASEAN leader that did it was Lee Kuan Yew from Singapore, who got heavy backing from the US, the others were also the Thai, who yet again, have heavy US backing.

    I’m sure it’s so complicated after all, it’s to protect Cambodian land, by sanctioning and starving Cambodian.

    No, it was because Malaysia/Singapore were fighting a communist insurgency then. Luckily after some tete a tete with Deng XP, he stopped Chinese support for the Communist Party of Malaya guerillas.

    Now we are as happy as a clam.

    • Agree: Showmethereal
    • Replies: @Smith
  288. Smith says:
    @littlereddot

    The communist movement in Malaysia at the time were led by the chinese malays, this fallout actually leads to the various riots and killing of chinese in Malaysia.

    So again, chinese fucking over the chinese, and communists no less? Just like Pol Pot, color me surprise.

    I’d make sure to tell denk next time when he’s in the chinese genocide rant.

  289. antibeast says:
    @Smith

    Look, I know you have this beef against China but Iran, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia also supported the Mujahideen against the USSR in Afghanistan. Deng was rightly concerned with the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan which shares a border with China. If you know the history of China, the USSR supported India against China during the 1962 China-India border war as well as two rebellions by Uyghur Muslims against China during the Republican Era. The USSR had been the biggest supplier of weapons to India which has been hostile to China since achieving its independence from the British Empire in 1947.

    • Replies: @Smith
  290. Smith says:
    @antibeast

    I don’t have a beef with China.

    I have a beef with Dengists and the cliche that run China from the 60s-00s. That’s the difference.

    And no, you can’t justify it to me, because USA and China ruined half of the world at the times, millions starved and killed for no reason. And I will keep mentioning the historical facts no matter how much chinese tried to defend that period.

    • Replies: @littlereddot
  291. @gatobart

    I cant argue with your analysis. Indeed it was multi faceted. You sound very neutral – which is a good way to analyze.
    One thing you left out is the CIA presence was still heavy in the area and playing on ethnic tensions. In fact that is how Hmong people got to the US as refugees. They worked with the CIA against multiple governments in the region… Even though they were historically a “Chinese” ethnic group they made enemies of everyone when they chose to work for the US side.

  292. @antibeast

    Very true indeed. The jor yers in the Vietnam War and the functioning of Afghanistan for the past forty years are the US – Russia (USSR) – China. The only difference is 2021 is Russia and China seemed to have learned their lessons and are not only working together but also willing to deal with the Taliban – whom they formerly opposed.

    • Replies: @Smith
  293. @Smith

    When did China “invade Tibet”? Dont say the 1950’s because that is nonsense. The ROC still claimed Tibet as part of China after the Qing collapsed. All the PLA did was clean up all separitists amd warlords through all recognized parts of China (the remaining place being Taiwan). The fact is the Dalai Lama was allowed to keep his plwer and still practice he serf/slavery system that the Qing allowed Tibet to keep for 200 years. The PLA didnt eradicate that system in full u til the Dalai Lama – who was a delegate at the peoples congress (you can find pictures and film of him beaming with Mao and other CPC heavy weights) – colluded with the CIA and started an armed rebellion… Thats actually when the serfs were finally freed. That is revisionist history to claim Tibet was recognized as a country. The Soviets going into Afghanistan is not the same.

    • Replies: @Smith
  294. gatobart says:
    @John Johnson

    “So if I criticize the Taliban I must be on the side of bombing Cambodia? That doesn’t make any sense.”

    What is that advice some fella gave about 2000 years ago about not throwing stones when you have a glass roof and about seeing the mole in your brother’s eye and not the beam in your own…? And what about pots calling kettles blacks…? How would you feel face to a German critizicing you Amerricans for putting children in cages in the Southern border….? If my own country, government had invaded and/or destroyed, bombed, ruined, dozens of countries in the last half a century and murdered with all kind of weapons (from biological to chemical to conventional to nuclear) tens of millions of people and stole entire countries for the profit of my elites I would be extremely careful before throwing stones, especially in the direction of my present or former victims.

    “I am against the Taliban and I was also against trying to turn the place into a democracy because I didn’t think it would work”

    You are only half right. Of course democracy won’t work in Afghanistan. As for turning the country into a democracy, Amerrica had much chance of doing that as Nazi Germany or Stalinist USSR would have had, i.e. the same of a snowball in Hell because Amerrica is NOT a democracy and it has never been one. The mere fact that you think you live in a democracy shows you as someone who has been deeply and completely brainwashed by your masters, as much as those poor souls living a fake life in plastic pods in the Matrix. Amerrica was never meant to be a democracy but a plutocracy. It was so in the beginning and so it remains to this day. Almost ten trillion US\$ wasted in useless wars for the unique benefit of the industrial and banking elites without having any of that money left for the unwashed masses should have been enough to make you open your eyes, but nooooo….

    “They controlled most of the country and that collapsed within a year”

    You keep completely and purposely ignoring what a Guerrilla War means. Did you really read and understood what I wrote…? What part of “withdrawing when in tactical disadvantage face to the enemy” you didn’t understand…? The fact that by now the Taliban practically controls the entire Afghanistan proves that they were never defeated, they were always there; they never surrendered or ran away, so they weren’t so to speak “Amerricans in Corregidor” or “MacArthur in Philippines”; they just acted as a guerrilla army should, executing tactical retreats when face to superior military forces and giving themselves the time to grind them down step by step. And it worked! Just like in Vietnam.

    In any case you should make an effort and put some order in that mind of yours because you are not really making it, as you are mixing two completely different things, two different periods in time. Of course they controlled the country before the Amerrican invasion of 2001, everyone knows that. But when the Amerricans came with their B52s and the rest of their arsenal they strategically withdrew and turned into a guerrilla force, I thought that was as clear as I could put it.

  295. Smith says:
    @Showmethereal

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Chamdo

    After months of failed negotiations,[14] attempts by Lhasa to secure foreign support and assistance,[21] and the troop buildups by the PRC[22] and Tibet,[23] the PLA crossed the Jinsha River on 6 or 7 October 1950 into Lhasa-controlled Chamdo, crossing the de facto border[24] at 5 places.[25]

    Two PLA units quickly captured the border town of Chamdo by 19 October, by which time 114 PLA[6] soldiers and 180 Tibetan[6][7][8] soldiers had been killed or wounded. The Chamdo governor and commander of Tibetan forces, Ngabo Ngawang Jigme, surrendered with his 2,700. Writing in 1962, Zhang Guohua claimed “5738 enemy troops “liquidated” and over 5700 “destroyed”, and “more than 3,000” peacefully surrendered.[26] Active hostilities were limited to a border area controlled by Lhasa northeast of the Salween River and east of the 96th meridian.[27][20]

    That is revisionist history to claim Tibet was recognized as a country.

    They fought for their independence, did they not?

    The Soviets going into Afghanistan is not the same.

    True, the Soviets were actually going to help the communist government in Afghanistan at the time.

    The more you argue, the more you seem to sink into the chinese sycophany.

    • Troll: showmethereal
    • Replies: @showmethereal
  296. Smith says:
    @Showmethereal

    Uh, you know China supported, funded and trained the mujahiden right?
    The Soviet retreat and collapse of the communist government in 1992 gave rise to the first Taliban government.

  297. @Smith

    Actually – not all Tibetans fought for independence. In fact there was internal battles where the independence seeking Tibetans attacked and killed those Tibetans who didn’t want to follow them. That was going on before the CPC took control of China. Your wikipedia page proves nothing against what I said.

    Time to stop trolling.

    • Replies: @Smith
  298. Smith says:
    @showmethereal

    You are using word play.

    The PRC troops weren’t in Tibet before that event, thus it’s 100% justified to call it the Invasion of Tibet since the existing Tibetan government did not ask for the PRC’s help.

    And no, historical facts aren’t on the chinese side on this.

  299. @ruralguy

    ‘Incompetence’? Do you really think so? I smell a great, big, Yankee rat.

  300. @Smith

    Another Sinophobic fan of theocracy, serfdom, hideous torture as punishment and a life expectancy under forty, plus near universal illiteracy.

    • Replies: @Smith
  301. @Smith

    I don’t have a beef with China.

    Choking !!!!! You almost made me choke to death.

    I think you gravitate to all the China linked threads just to take pot shots at Chinese. The above is the most disingenuous statement I have seen in ages.

  302. Smith says:
    @mulga mumblebrain

    I’m sorry, Mulga-chan, but it took the PRC a whole NINE (9) years after they take over Tibet to liberate serfdom:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1959_Tibetan_uprising

    I don’t think they give a damn until the Lama turned against them, it’s purely a geopolitical move.

    I don’t give much shit about the tibetan, but let’s call a spade a spade. And to be fair, I don’t think the Lama were as bad as Pol Pot.

    @littlereddot
    Well, my friend, you should drink more water.

    Feel free to check my post-history, most of my posts regarding China are regarding the China-Vietnam war and the Sino-Soviet split (which coincides with Dengist China), with some Chinese and Vietnamese history debate. Other than that, I think Xi Jinping is a fine fine dude and does a lot to reform Dengist China.

  303. @Smith

    The Pan-chen Lama sided with the Chinese while the Dalai Lama did not,
    so it´s not all cut and dried i.e. it was a matter of taste.
    Either way Tibet was part of China since the 16th century and
    let´s face it, what they did away with was yucky –
    if ever there was a moral point for modernization it was this.

    • Replies: @nokangaroos
  304. @Smith

    Which part do you not understand? Tibet was a part of Qing Dynasty China for centuries. They let Tibet do their own thing. When the Nationalists took over the Qing they till claimed Tibet and nobody ever considered Tibet a country. Then there was a pesky thing like the Japanese invasion and civil war and warlords going on in China and so the Nationalists never put troops there.. But the world recognized Tibet as part of China. The Nationalists then lost the civil war to the communists. The communists gave the Dalai Lama a sweet deal amd still let him do his thing similar to the arrangment under the Qing. That was until he reneged by collaborating with the CIA. Then that is when PLA locked it down. You claim to know history but you obviously dont.

    • Replies: @Smith
  305. @nokangaroos

    I mean I like Harrer (just forget the film. Pretty please?), especially
    his later anthropological work, and his personal sympathies for
    the Dalai Lama are in no way misguided;
    but for our purposes here he is an Agency stooge.

    • Replies: @Smith
  306. Smith says:
    @Showmethereal

    Which part of invasion do you not understand?

    Before 1950, no PRC troop in Tibet, then PRC sends troop to invade it and annex it despite the resistance from the existing Tibetan government.

    You claim to know history but you obviously dont.

    Oh, I do know quite a lot of it, you are just in the denial over the invasion.

    • Troll: showmethereal
  307. Smith says:
    @nokangaroos

    Tibet and China were conquered by the mongols and manchu, all under the banner of Yuan and Qing.

    When Qing collapses, Tibet declares independence until the PRC comes knocking.

    Actually, looking at the Qing and ROC claim, I’m quite happy that Mongolia achieved independence and North Korea and Vietnam got out of being tributary states, we could have ended up being another Tibet, but our ancestors fought hard for our independence.

    Makes me appreciate history more.

    • Replies: @antibeast
    , @nokangaroos
  308. antibeast says:
    @Smith

    Tibet and China were conquered by the mongols and manchu, all under the banner of Yuan and Qing.

    The Tibetans were allies of the Mongols and Manchus, so much so that Tibetan Buddhism became the official court religion of the Yuan and Qing Dynasties with the Dalai Lama selected by and appointed to the Imperial Court as the ‘official tutor’. That’s when Tibetan Buddhist monks settled throughout Northeast China with the Forbidden City acting as the official capital of Tibetan Buddhism in the Yuan and Qing Dynasties, Before then, Tibetan Buddhism had established itself in Sichuan, Gansu and Yunnan Provinces as well as the Xinjiang region after Tibetans conquered those parts of the Chinese Empire, following the fall of the Tang Dynasty.

    China’s relationship with Tibet started all the way back to when the Tang Dynasty began treating Tibet as a tributary State. Tibet later became an Empire when it expanded to Southwest China, Xinjiang region and parts of Central and South Asia. After collapsing due to the onslaught of various Turkic invasions, Tibet was later incorporated as part of the Chinese Empire under the Yuan Dynasty. Both the Uyghurs and Tibetans were then recruited by the Yuan Court as government officials and religious teachers, respectively.

    • Replies: @Smith
  309. Smith says:
    @antibeast

    That’s really a lot of word for Tibet being conquered by mongols and manchu, my man.

    • Replies: @antibeast
  310. antibeast says:
    @Smith

    Well, yes, but my point was that both the Mongols and Manchus adopted Tibetan Buddhism as the official court religion during the Yuan and Qing Dynasties respectively. As such, Tibetan monks were recruited to teach and practice Tibetan Buddhism in China with the Dalai Lama selected by and appointed to the Imperial Court in the Forbidden City in Beijing. To this day, the pervasive influence of Tibetan Buddhism can be found in the tantric practices of Chinese Buddhism in Northeast China as well as Southwest China where Tibetans settled as early as the Tang Dynasty. Tibetan Buddhism has become part of Chinese Civilization in the form of the esoteric schools of Chinese Buddhism such as the Sakya School while the tradition of the Chinese Emperor appointing the Dalai Lama has been going on since the Yuan Dynasty.

    Tibetans have been settling in Southwest China since the Tang Dynasty while Tibetan Buddhism and the Dalai Lama has become an integral part of Chinese Civilization and the Chinese State, respectively, since the Yuan Dynasty. If you visit the Buddhist temples in Sichuan, Yunnan and Gansu provinces today and you would find Tibetan influences all over the place. Same with the Forbidden City in Beijing which housed the sacred scrolls of Tibetan Buddhism with the Dalai Lama holding the official title of ‘imperial tutor’ during the Yuan and Qing Dynasties.

  311. @Smith

    I see.

    “I see soldiers moving at one point in time and space therefore it is an invasion;
    nothing ever happened before or afterwards in any way, shape or case.”

    You would no doubt call the Anschluß an invasion also.
    This is exactly the kind of self-serving ahistorical drivel that gave us
    the hollowcause.
    If you are not disinterested, say so – or risk sounding artificial.

    • Replies: @Smith
  312. Smith says:
    @nokangaroos

    Were there anyone killed in the Anschluß?

    • Replies: @nokangaroos
  313. @Smith

    Not to my knowledge – a company of mountain troops planned to resist but were talked out of it; you have to understand the only ones not for reunification were monarchists and communists
    (I will come back to that). The unanimous constitution of 1919 reads:

    Art.1: Deutschösterreich ist eine demokratische Republik.
    Art.2: Deutschösterreich ist ein Bestandteil des Deutschen Reiches.

    It was vetoed by Clemenceau personally.

    Now for Tibet … the PLA came to reassert control over a territory slid off into autonomy during the Century of Humiliation; for them it was the natural thing to do. As already noted the Pan-chen Lama agreed with that reading. The Dalai Lama at least did not object.
    For the following – I was not there so can only offer the “most probable”
    reading of ye olde tea leaves.

    Someone convinced the Dalai Lama his life was in danger.
    The only ones to put up a fight were the Khampa – bandits whom to retcon as heroes would be a bit off.
    I conclude the ordinary people were:
    1. cowed.
    2. not exactly devastated by the Chinese presence.
    Since when the Dalai Lama is in the CIA´s employ is open for discussion,
    but not the fact itself.
    This means the official narrative is the stories of flunkeys-in-exile that should be
    treated like the ramblings of postrevolutionary Russian nobility.

    – You are free to call that cynical to which I respond:
    Sentimentality is bad counsel. Thinking with your hormones whatever they may be is not “holistic”. Believe it or not your feelz have no physical reality. We wouldn´t be in the shit we are if everybody took these simple truths to heart.

    – You mention that “we” kicked the Chinese out, Baruch Haschem.
    Vietnam, then? (not trying to be nosy, just to better understand your reasoning)

    • Replies: @Smith
  314. Smith says:
    @nokangaroos

    First off, I don’t think Annexation and invasion are mutually exclusive, and in retrospect, I don’t think I agree with Germany annexation of Austria, which gives Hitler bigger and brighter ideas such as the invasion of Poland, and then the invasion of USSR, dooming his own regime.

    For the chinese, while you might think it was a “natural” thing to do for them to invade and annex Tibet, not so for the tibetan considering they have fought a small battle over it. Later on, these sentiments manifested in attacking Soviet troops and attacking Viet Nam, because they feel they it’s “natural” to take back territories.

    And the US, with their “natural” urge to invade to other nations to keep themselves as top dog.

    I will call you cynical, and I will say that these big states expansions are inherently unstable.

    • Replies: @antibeast
  315. [ ] I will say that these big states expansions are inherently unstable.

    … insofar as they are not organic, certainly; Tibet and Vietnam are
    borderline (heh) cases.
    – As in taxonomy so in politics the battle between “lumpers” and “splitters” is eternal.
    Peter Prince Kropotkin (Czar´s butler and aristo-anarchist) makes an excellent case for anything bigger than the polis being of inner necessity unfree.
    OTOH the economics of size are undeniable.
    I do not have all the answers but would argue that one people should be united
    (or at least not leave the decision to its enemies).
    “Ein Volk, ein Reich” was a catchphrase long before the Führer was born.

    – Much of history is justified by fait accompli or the inexorable progress of the doodah
    but I do think the Tibetans are better off as part of China (not to mention the inevitability; in this context I do not think Bhutan will hold out another generation either).

    • Replies: @Smith
  316. Smith says:
    @nokangaroos

    Cao Cao has this to say “Win then you’ll be king, lose and you will be bandit”.

    This rings true to me, no matter the ages.

    I just cannot stand the doublespeak on how chinese did not invade Tibet. That is absolute grating as much as the US propagandas.

    • Agree: nokangaroos
  317. antibeast says:
    @Smith

    For the chinese, while you might think it was a “natural” thing to do for them to invade and annex Tibet, not so for the tibetan considering they have fought a small battle over it. Later on, these sentiments manifested in attacking Soviet troops and attacking Viet Nam, because they feel they it’s “natural” to take back territories.

    As you’ve admitted yourself in past posts, Tibet has been a part of China since the Yuan Dynasty after being annexed by the Mongols. That implies that China considers Tibet to be part of its territory for at least 700 years from the Yuan, Ming and Qing Dynasties all to way to the Republican Era and up to the founding of the People’s Republic of China. Throughout this period, the Central Government in Beijing appointed the Dalai Lama who had an official position in the Chinese State as the spiritual head of Tibetan Buddhism and political representative of Tibet.

    The oft-repeated claim by Western propagandists that Tibet had been a sovereign State independent of China which was ‘invaded’ by the PLA is factually incorrect. You’re now claiming the Chinese suppression of the CIA-funded and supported Tibetan rebellion to be politically equivalent to both the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and the Vietnamese invasion of Cambodia which is completely absurd. Nobody recognized Tibet as an independent country since the Yuan Dynasty while everybody recognized Afghanistan as an independent country which survived the imperialist Great Game between the British and Russian Empires. Ditto for Cambodia. Now you’re claiming that China “in attacking Soviet troops and attacking Viet Nam, because they feel they it’s ‘natural’ to take back territories” is utter non-sense. You know very well that China’s intent and purpose was NOT to ‘take back territories’ as you allege but to oppose the USSR and its satellite State of Vietnam which DID invade Afghanistan and Cambodia respectively, both of whom were officially recognized and actively supported not just by China but by the OIC (in the case of Afghanistan) and the ASEAN (in the case of Cambodia).

    The war in Afghanistan is finally over as all US and NATO troops have left that Central Asian country. The US/NATO military lost that war as the Taliban fought their way to victory in Kabul. The \$2 Trillion, 20-year Afghanistan debacle has turned out to be another Vietnam for the USA as those stupid gringos lick their wounded egos back in America.

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