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The West Can’t Engage China on the Climate, While Also Demonising Them
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As Britain prepares to host the Cop26 climate conference in Glasgow next month, it is pursuing two contradictory policies that undermine its chances of success. On the one hand, it is seeking a unified global response to the climate crisis with nations agreeing to targets for the reduction of their coal and petroleum emissions. But at the same time, it has joined the US in escalating a new cold war directed at confronting China and Russia at every turn.

The two policies have polar opposite objectives in trying to persuade China, responsible for 27 per cent of global carbon emissions, to cut back on building new coal-fuelled power stations, but at the same time demonising China as a pariah state with whom political, commercial and intellectual contacts should be as limited as possible.

In practice, this means deciding which threat is the greatest. Is it the reported thawing of the permafrost that covers 65 per cent of Russia that could release toxic quantities of methane gas? Or is it Vladimir Putin’s annexation of the Crimea, support for insurgents in eastern Ukraine, military intervention in Syria and building a Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline between Russia and Germany?

Is the risk stemming from China’s claim to the Spratly Islands, and the possibility that it might invade Taiwan, greater than that posed by Beijing building hundreds more coal power stations under its next five year plan – and thereby making the planet less habitable?

Viewed like this the balance of risks is weighted decisively towards giving priority to limiting climate change when comparing it to more traditional security threats originating in state competition. Put it another way, the greatest menace to the west is not the unlikely prospect of president Xi Jinping invading Taiwan or Putin doing the same in Ukraine, but the disappearance of ice in the Arctic bringing about a global sea rise.

Anatol Lieven caustically points out in his ground-breaking book, Climate Change and the Nation State, that the tension between the US and China over the Chinese fortification of reefs and sandbanks in the South China Sea may be ended, if the two nations fail to limit climate change, not by military conflict but by rising sea levels and typhoons that “put the sources of these tensions under water again”.

It should be obvious that the degree of cooperation essential to stall and, if possible, reverse the warming of the world’s atmosphere will be impossible in the context of an escalating cold war between the leading nations. Unfortunately, the two issues of the climate crisis and a revived cold war remain separate in the minds of both political elites and the public, a self-destructive blindness that is driven by diverse but powerful forces.

These include the difficulty people in general have in taking on board that mega-disasters, of a kind which they previously have had no experience of, may happen to them. A recent example of this was the calamitous delay in Europe and the US in 2020 in understanding the seriousness of the coronavirus epidemic and that it would not be confined to east Asia.

The most dreaded consequences of the climate crisis are still in the future, even if there may be signs of disasters to come in the wildfires in Australia and California and the increasing desertification of countries in the Middle East and North Africa from Iraq to Chad. People may speak of making sacrifices for their grandchildren and for future generations, but they seldom expect to do so in practice. “Do it for posterity,” urges the old joke often attributed to Groucho Marx, but in fact much older. “But what has posterity every done for me?” comes the reply.

People may worry about the climate crisis, but this does not mean that they are willingly assent to higher fuel taxes. Political leaders in both democratic and authoritarian states understand that people do not like governments of any stripe which preside over a reduction in their standard of living, unless they are frightened by a great threat like a war or a pandemic, and possibly not even then.

At the government level, another strong impulse is simply that the political, bureaucratic and military powers feel comfortable in the cold war world of great power confrontation. It was this confrontation that gave them huge influence and vast budgets during the original Cold War against Communism and the Soviet Union, and there is no reason it should not do so again. “This helps explain the enthusiasm with which western security elites have embraced the idea of a new cold war against Russia and China – an analogy that is both largely false and wholly unnecessary,” writes Lieven.

To point this out is not a defence of the authoritarian nationalist regimes in Moscow and Beijing, or, more specifically, of Putin’s repression of his critics and fixed elections or of Xi Jinping’s persecution of the Uyghurs and jailing of opponents in Hong Kong.

In terms of realpolitik, Russia and China are smaller players than they are portrayed by themselves or by their enemies. Russia may still be a nuclear superpower, but in Europe it is territorially weaker than at any time since the 17th century. China may have the world’s second largest economy, but to pretend that it now has the world’s biggest navy by counting every patrol boat in coastal waters is misleading threat-inflation.

America’s fixation on China as a rival is shared by Donald Trump and Joe Biden, but it has an additional input. Hostility to China is a bi-partisan issue in Congress, about the only serious one on which Republicans and Democrats are agreed. This is very different from the vaccine campaign and other anti-Covid measures that have produced only rancorous division. In such a bifurcated political scene, it is not surprising that an embattled Biden is boosting China as the enemy at the gate and calling for Americans to rally around the flag with some expectation that they will do so.


Belief and disbelief in the climate crisis is one of the most envenomed dividing lines in American politics. Conviction that it is not happening or is grossly exaggerated has become part of Republican identity. The hundred or so world leaders gathered in Glasgow in November will know this and that the shaky Democratic control of Congress may soon end, stymying any further climate control measures, so why should they do what America cannot or will not do? They know also that Trump, or a Republican sharing his opinions, could well be back in the White House in 2024.

An international jamboree like Cop26 will be full of rhetorical appeals for global action and solidarity. As during the pandemic, real action, if it happens at all, will be by nation states acting in their own interests. Despite all the apocalyptic predictions of climate catastrophe, the moment when these countries really believe that they face an existential threat has yet to arrive.

(Republished from The Independent by permission of author or representative)
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: China, Global Warming, NATO, Russia 
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  1. Now, where is the peer-reviewed, transparent study that shows the Global “Warming” is here, and it is exclusively due to the human activities, and that the Kyoto Protocol will surely reduce the world temperature by the amount promised?

    It was Global Cooling and Snowball Earth in the 1970s, followed by a Global Warming, and when that failed to materialise, now a vague and impossible-to-disprove “Climate Change”. Climate certainly changes because it has always been so.

    It is true and lamentable that forests have been destroyed and ecosystems have been damaged due to the pillage by the industries, and that must be stopped, and industries must be made to pay for their shortsighted ideas, but jumping from there to the conclusion that “the whole Earth has become warmer, and we ought to commit suicide to save it” is a very long one.

  2. @Old Brown Fool

    You forgot the “Acid rain” in the 1980’s. I was in grade school and I remember the story going something along the lines of all our industrial smog was going to pollute our rain, which in turn would pollute all our ponds and streams. That would lead to fish and amphibian die-offs, collapsing the food chain and causing global starvation.

    Also, there was the Ozone layer problem in the early 1990’s. Remember that one? The carbon emissions were going to burn a major hole in the Earth’s protective ozone layer. That would lead to mass skin carcinomas, crop destruction, widespread famine and death for hundreds of millions.

    Neither happened, and then the “Settled” science changed.

    It’s called weather, and it’s normal.

    • Thanks: Bro43rd
  3. Bro43rd says:

    TBH, I couldn’t get past the first few paragraphs in which PC shows his lefty-wokester bonafides. Now I am wondering if his initials are a pseudonym for his belief system. I must say though I was pleasantly surprised the 1st 2 comments were not the usual climate change echo chamber. Conservationism is the real issue instead of searching for that unicorn aka addressing climate change. I know this is very cliche but true nonetheless, as the boyscouts say; let’s leave it better than we found it. Now I will go back & finish the article.

    • Replies: @Bro43rd
  4. Bro43rd says:

    After finishing the article I stand by my previous comment. Adding that PC is totally out of touch with the American mindset. Claiming that all those who don’t fall in line with CC agenda are republicans is laughable. PC is statist to the core, always clamoring for government to take this or that action to resolve this or that problem. When the real answer is grassroots action & individual initiative. He is so shallow minded to not realize that most of these problems are a result of government having too much power already. My analogy is giving the recovering alcoholic a job tending bar & expecting good results.

    • Replies: @mulga mumblebrain
  5. Verity says:
    @American Citizen

    Wrong!! Both happened. Acid rain was primarily curtailed by sulphur scrubbers on coal-fired power plants and the ozone hole is still with us. In 2021 the hole in the southern hemisphere was larger than Antarctica though experts say the atmosphere is healing.

  6. anonymous[197] • Disclaimer says:

    Mr. Cockburn should first provide data on emissions by China and “the West” to show which one is actually making more progress in controlling emissions. If he can demonstrate that it is the West that is leading in controlling emissions, then he could consider presenting an article such as this. Otherwise, talk of the West “persuading China” is just more of the British self-righteousness the world has had to put up with for centuries.

    • Agree: Houston 1992
    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
  7. @American Citizen

    True, I forgot. Thanks for reminding. And then there were other equally ‘scientific’ forecasts that must have been realised in alternate timelines.

    • Thanks: Houston 1992
  8. @anonymous

    Here you go. These are coal consumption figures.China is building more coal-fired stations. Between 2016 and 2020 they installed enough coal generation to power the entire UK.

  9. anonymous[197] • Disclaimer says:

    First of all, this is just coal, not total CO2 emissions. More important, you have to look at emissions per unit of industrial production. This is because a country cannot claim to have reduced emissions by simply exporting the production feeding their consumption to another country. Thirdly, you need to consider emission Per Capita, otherwise you are insisting that others remain at a lower standard of living without being willing to reduce your own to theirs.

    • Replies: @d dan
  10. d dan says:

    Correct. You should note your comment is in reply to YetAnotherAnon (comment #8).

    “First of all, this is just coal, not total CO… More important, you have to look at emissions per unit of industrial production. Thirdly, you need to consider emission Per Capita…”

    Fourthly, a lot of the newly open coal plants are more efficient replacement of the old plants that were shut down, thereby partly reduce emissions. Fifthly, you have to look into CO2 sink also, which absorb CO2. And sixth, seventh, …

    1. China is the country that grow the most forest (afforestation) in the world [1].
    2. China has the most installed solar photovoltaics in the world (more than the next 3 countries combined) [2].
    3. China is the largest producer of wind power in the world (more than the next 9 countries combined) [3].
    4. China is the largest hydropower producer in the world (more than the next 4 countries combined) [4].
    5. China has the longest high speed rail (more energy efficient than plane or car) in the world (more than the rest of the world combined) [5].
    6. China has the largest green investment in the world (more than the next 4 countries combined) [6]
    7. China produces and uses most electric cars in the world.
    8. In addition, the trends will continue and may accelerate for all the above, and the gap between China and others will keep growing.

    and the list goes on…


    Furthermore, 25% of the trees planted in the world in the last few years were planted in China. Even NASA acknowledges that the results are visible through satellite:

    China is the only major economy that makes the most efforts and investment, and making tangible progress towards its promise to have peak CO2 by 2030, and carbon neutral by 2060. Quite an achievement for a fast growing economy, low per-capita and developing country.

  11. @Old Brown Fool

    Global Cooling in the 1970s is an old denialist lie. Even then scientific papers predicted warming by six to ten times as much as did those predicting cooling. Are you an ignoramus or a liar? The final sentence with its deranged proposition that a fix of anthropogenic climate destabilisation is ‘suicide’ (to your fossil fuel shares, perhaps)when the precise opposite is the truth, is viciousand Evil, even for a denialist.

    • Replies: @Change that Matters
  12. @American Citizen

    A real Gold Star moron. Acid rain was cured through putting scrubbers on smoke-stacks, and the ozone hole was caused by CFCs and their chlorine, not carbon. The real bottom of the denialist moronic sewer this one. Poisonous imbecile, easily brainwashed, but thinks that it is really clever.

    • Replies: @EH
  13. @Bro43rd

    I agree! Mass murder, genocide and insatiable greed are, indeed, the salient features of the ‘American mindset’. You are not a TOTAL imbecile it appears.

    • Replies: @Bro43rd
  14. reading says:

    Yes. Why not?

    Various European scholars have worked hard for decades. Finally, they have developed the environmentalism advocated by the Nazis into a new universal religion.. they have organized the carbon Holy See.. the environmental protection tribunal. The NGO Knight order. The holy see is ready to levy a carbon tenth tax.. the major clerical families are ready to sell all kinds of environmental atonement vouchers

    What about tax collection?

    Europe is the prepared electorate of the God of the environment.. all major economies are God’s chosen children.. they are different

    Only those who are environmentally friendly are Aryans

    As a producer. Handicraft slave workshop in dollar economy.. China is not environmentally friendly.. consumers who buy Printing paper are environmentally friendly

    As a consumer… China’s demand has led to the destruction of the Spanish aquaculture industry and the bad environment… China has added another layer of non environmental protection

    So let’s organize a benevolent and universal environmental crusade to reward their scalp and labor. The carbon Temple needs to be built with great brilliance

    Beat all the third world into evil people… Let them pay taxes. Buy atonement vouchers

    Only the best provided and most comfortable licked dog will be promoted to human by voters

    Look! Behind the most universal value, the most benevolent and noble purpose is such darkness and oppression
    The earth experienced millions of years of rainy season, dry season and ice age when no one on earth.. so environmental protection is important and not important.. if the universal value is not universal.. in fact, it creates slavery and control.. then it will be despised sooner or later

    The only true God is omnipotent. He loves everyone mercifully. Why does his church fall apart?

    • Thanks: Bro43rd
    • Replies: @mulga mumblebrain
  15. reading says:

    Environmental religion has a hidden danger

    It was first initiated by the Nazis. Its essence is to prove that they are better, so as to expel others’ human rights

    If all environmental protection is universal, then we have to face a problem. Does the environmental protection Bible believe that all human beings are born equal and enjoy the nursery rhyme carbon quota… If so, then it begins to be universal

    Or are some people God’s voters? The carbon quota is promised by the God of environmental protection. The rest are half people… Asians. A third of people. They are dogs lying in the voter’s garden. The carbon quota promised by the God of thieves?

  16. Bro43rd says:
    @mulga mumblebrain

    Your words, not mine. You’ve apparently overlooked the fact that I’m definitely not one of those go usa rah rah mf’ers.

    My words, you are a cc troll with nothing valuable to add to the conversation. Please go back “down under”.

    • Agree: 36 ulster
  17. @reading

    Further proof that denialists are Pure Evil. When leavened with narcissistic arrogance, as here, and more than usually swinish pig ignorance, the stench overwhelming.

    • Troll: Bro43rd
  18. Sean says:

    China, responsible for 27 per cent of global carbon emissions, to cut back on building new coal-fuelled power stations,

    All credit to you for mentioning that fact.

    China as a pariah state with whom political, commercial and intellectual contacts should be as limited as possible.

    Boris defied the US to give China the British 5G contract, he also told Xi in phone call after the covid-19 pandemic started that “I love China”. Just last week he said we must welcome Chinese investment and it will play a “gigantic part” in UK economic life for the foreseeable. Before Boris, Cameron (and even more enthusiastically his chancellor Osborne) gave China to contract to build nuclear power stations in Britain. Some of these decisions were reversed but the fact is Britain under the Conservatives are licking China’s boots.

    In such a bifurcated political scene, it is not surprising that an embattled Biden is boosting China as the enemy at the gate and calling for Americans to rally around the flag with some expectation that they will do so.

    Biden publicly scoffed at the idea that China was competition for the US, this was in May 2019 when he was on the campaign trail. He has never described China in the terms that he used for Russia: “an opponent”. The strategy of the US foreign policy establishment (who are convinced Trump was extremely soft on Russia if not an actual Russian agent of influence) is to open up China to market forces and them use a liberalised China as a wedge to make Russia harmless. Biden and those advising him are living in the past.

    American thinkers are stuck in a Cold War mindset, whereby they think that it is the USA’s system of values that makes it the global superpower. This was useful to believe when facing the USSR–supposedly backward because of it totalitarian stultifying of the Russian people’s potential– but really there is no reason to believe that China’s success is bound up with them emulating American ‘freedom’ either economic or political. Contra Biden, China can ‘eat our lunch’ without emulating the West’s particular version of democracy. Hong Kong was successful without much in the way of democracy, the asset they had was the capacities of the population, which China proper has a billion of. Thirty years from now China might well be a giant Hong Kong, and more dominant in the world than America has ever been. Given the size of their home market (which everyone in the West wants in on and is facilitating the growth of) it simply is no longer possible for the West to slow down China’s economic growth. In 15 years fighting China will be completely out of the question. Soon after that they will be dictating to the West.

  19. @Sean

    “China, responsible for 27 per cent of global carbon emissions, to cut back on building new coal-fuelled power stations,

    All credit to you for mentioning that fact.”

    While I agree with the main thrust of your post, you quoted that out of context, the context being that COP26 among other things will try and persuade China to stop building new coal fired power stations.

    China plans to build more coal-fired power plants and has hinted that it will rethink its timetable to slash emissions, in a significant blow to the UK’s ambitions for securing a global agreement on phasing out coal at the Cop26 climate summit in Glasgow.

    In a statement after a meeting of Beijing’s National Energy Commission, the Chinese premier, Li Keqiang, stressed the importance of regular energy supply, after swathes of the country were plunged into darkness by rolling blackouts that hit factories and homes.

    I don’t know what Boris is thinking of in allowing HK Chinese to move to the UK, haven’t we got enough Fifth Columnists of our own in the Remain voters? The last thing the UK needs is another bunch of high-IQ people whose interests are aligned with those of a different country.

    • Replies: @Deep Thought
  20. @Obstinate Cymric

    I don’t know what Boris is thinking of in allowing HK Chinese to move to the UK, haven’t we got enough Fifth Columnists of our own in the Remain voters? The last thing the UK needs is another bunch of high-IQ people whose interests are aligned with those of a different country.

    I am sure that that is how China sees it too. These people become your asset only when you place them in the enemy’s camp!

    The 5-eyers, having created these high-IQ fifth colunmists in HK in order to hurt China, NOW see them infesting their OWN countries. What a poetic revenge!!! 😀

  21. I can’t understand the logic behind those on the Climate Change side.

    On the one hand they say the West uses disproportionate carbon per person than say an Ethiopian and yet these same people promote multiculturalism and bringing those from the third world into first world countries and first world carbon usage?

    These carbon cops point to the carbon generation of on international jet trip, again comparing against an Ethiopians carbon footprint (Maybe a carbon credit system should be called the Ethiopian?) Yet nobody decries the “out of control” African population growth that is adding a country of Ethiopia each year!

    • Agree: Bro43rd
    • Replies: @mulga mumblebrain
  22. @Cookie Boy

    A most unfortunate comment. The reality of anthropogenic climate destabilisation is irrefutable. Do nothing and we’ll be stuffed by 2050, possibly extinct. Carbon ‘footprints’ must be lowered, which means that the rich countries must reduce theirs ie reduce their consumption-or their children and grandchildren die. Trying to shift the blame to Africans is most unhelpful. What is so hard to understand that? Denialists are either too stupid, ignorant or brainwashed to know what they do, or they do not care that they are killing their own, and others, children.

    • Replies: @Cookie Boy
  23. @Sean

    A comment far more rational than usual. However China is a different civilization, upon whom you appear to still project Western values of dominance and submission. The Chinese value harmony within and between societies, and, unlike the West, in fact in total contrast to it, reject dominance over and interference in the affairs of others. A world where China was the leading power would be a paradise in comparison to the Hell of the last 500 years of Western tyranny.

    • Replies: @Whataboutery2020
  24. @mulga mumblebrain

    You don’t address pure numbers then all the technology advances in the world cannot overcome all the mouths needed to be fed per annum or the bodies needing warmth, all the windmills in the world will not generate the energy needed.

    For once the population growth is not a western issue, you take yearly immigration away from the population growth in the West and most countries are either declining or stagnant.

    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
  25. The two policies have polar opposite objectives in trying to persuade China, responsible for 27 per cent of global carbon emissions, to cut back on building new coal-fuelled power stations, but at the same time demonising China as a pariah state with whom political, commercial and intellectual contacts should be as limited as possible.

    I think this is comparing Apples and Oranges. The Power Elites in virtually every nation don’t give a **** about global carbon emissions. But in this day and age it’s necessary for them to pretend they do. Those Elites have concluded that they can survive any future upheavals, and the prospective deaths of the lower 99% doesn’t bother them a bit.

    I think that demonizing China is much more a matter of money. Big money for the Weapons Makers, and the people who will be Bribed, and those who can skim off a chunk of those Bribes.

    This may also be a huge factor in the China stuff.

    People may worry about the climate crisis, but this does not mean that they are willingly assent to higher fuel taxes.

    People around the world who are already comfortable aren’t willing to do diddly **** about anything which might inconvenience them in any way. Big Fossil Fuels have been bombarding citizens for decades with their propaganda, and it’s now a cottage industry to throw bags of **** at the fan to confuse the issue. Deniers are easy people to dislike because they’re so obnoxious and loud, but to be fair to them, they’re not a speck worse than some cultivated “Liberal” types like Obama and Biden who run their mouths about the problem, but do absolutely nothing to address it. Deniers and Hillary/BHO/Pelosi/Uncle Joe – peas in a pod. Denier Joe Sixpack – even at his loudest – doesn’t to a tiny fraction of the damage managed by the hypocritical politicians.

    Russia may still be a nuclear superpower, but in Europe it is territorially weaker than at any time since the 17th century. China may have the world’s second largest economy, but to pretend that it now has the world’s biggest navy by counting every patrol boat in coastal waters is misleading threat-inflation.

    I fear this is some misleading stuff. “Territory” is not at all a good way to measure the success of a nation. Ditto for ‘naval displacement’. The US has the largest navy in the world by that standard, but so what! A small 500 ton corvette carrying a couple nuclear tipped cruise missiles can sink a Ford-class carrier in the blink of an eye.

    • Replies: @Bro43rd
  26. Bro43rd says:
    @Zachary Smith

    Denier this denier that. How about suggesting that this is an environmental issue not a climate issue. You climate change enthusiasts are a dime a dozen. Spent a little to much time in the kool-aid line. When are you gonna realize the cc issue is just another elitist distraction (& make a little money while at it) technique.

    The real problem is corporations have totally captured government & are not being held accountable for the environmental damage done. Which leads me to believe that government is entirely useless.

    • Replies: @Zachary Smith
  27. @Bro43rd

    When are you gonna realize the cc issue is just another elitist distraction (& make a little money while at it) technique.

    Obviously we have different viewpoints about what’s important and what’s not.

    I destested GWB for all his crimes. Yet while he was still in office I remarked on a blog somewhere that if he would take the Global Warming problem seriously and jump into the battle with all his might, I’d support the little swine as President For Life, and for the Tequila Twins and their children to follow him in that role.

    If we don’t halt, then reverse, Climate Change, nothing else matters. Nothing.

    When I’m in an especially realistic frame of mind, sometimes I have to admit to the increasing possibility we’re Dead Men Walking. That we’re already past the point of no return.

    So, I can’t take your advice. But I’ll offer a bit of my own. By skipping over whatever I’m posting, you’ll surely remain in a better frame of mind.

    • Disagree: Bro43rd
    • Replies: @Whataboutery2020
  28. Cockburn is wet and very windy.

  29. Let us hope all nations run by evil turds can put aside their petty differences and embrace global tyranny.

  30. This is why I advocate the Mars project. We have to move out of Earth-simple as that. The great men aboard the mayflower set sail from Europe in search of new land. We must do the same. MARS will be paradise-absolute paradise. And none of this jew nonsense, no immigration, no non whites, no trannies. A new dawn….a new beginning on a new land-a RESTART if you may. The Red planet awaits!

  31. @reading

    Malicious gibberish. Brain damage?

  32. @Cookie Boy

    Windmills grind grain or pump ground-water, wind TURBINES produce energy, my dimwitted friend. There is more to renewables than wind power, or have you suffered some sort of post vaccine cognitive injury?

  33. I see we have a Democrat on the inside stirring trouble, it’s time to hit their sites and do the same.

  34. EH says: • Website
    @mulga mumblebrain

    Always insulting, always projecting.
    From: “A real Gold Star moron…” to: “easily brainwashed, but thinks that it is really clever”, all your posts are all about you.

    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
  35. @EH

    I call a spade a spade, or a ‘bloody shovel’ if you prefer. I detest Dunning-Krugerites, not for what they are, loathsome as that is, but for the carnage and suffering that their arrogant stupidity, and so often malice, cause.

  36. @Old Brown Fool

    Tell that to the people in Vancouver Canada —-or BC –they were hammered and more is coming..

  37. Dennis Dale says: • Website

    I’m having a hard time imagining something less relevant than this. I feel profound sympathy thinking of Patrick, entering his dotage of futile oblivion talking about “global warming”, as if things are more or less normal. God bless you, simple, good person.

    • Agree: Bro43rd
  38. @mulga mumblebrain

    Be careful what you wish for. The Chinese think Africans are subhuman and the best you can hope for is to be a pet in one of their human zoos.

    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
  39. @Zachary Smith

    If we don’t halt, then reverse, Climate Change, nothing else matters. Nothing.

    It’s complete bollocks.

    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
  40. @Whataboutery2020

    Another proud denialist, with NOTHING to be proud about. ‘I have nothing to declare but my malignant stupidity’.

  41. @Whataboutery2020

    As one confidently expects, the denialist imbecile reveals itself to be a vicious racist. You creatures are scum, with apologies to algae.

    • Replies: @Whataboutery2020
  42. But what if the original goal was to stop China from modernizing by using climate change?

    That kills both birds of engaging China on climate change and demonizing it.

    It just didn’t work out.

  43. @Mulga Mumblebrain

    It’s not me who’ll be keeping you in a zoo, it’s your Chinese buddies.

    • Agree: 36 ulster
  44. Bert33 says:

    Climate schmimate. They all failed science class or there would be news about international contests and awards and prizes and insulation ads and public see-and-do demonstration stations and 5-6-7 different vendors running their booths showing people how to save energy dollars. Instead it’s billionaires in private jets who live in climate-controlled environments and could not change a light bulb to save their sorry lives. Give the problem to Siemens(Germany), and they can contact Dr. Dipl. Ing. down at the Universitaet, and take everyone zu Schule on Thema Energie at the Messehalle, ja? Albore is a politician, not a professor. He is an overmonied twit tied up somehow with the ‘democratic’ party and their mysterious inner workings. If he and Kerry could manage to shut their richpeople pie holes then maybe some honest science could get out and people would pay attention and learn a little something.

    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
  45. With trillions at stake plus full tyrannical power, the evil left (redundant) is never, ever going to drop the warming hoax.

    They must be destroyed.

    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
  46. @Sick of Orcs

    It is good to see the hard Right denialist psychopaths express their genocidal drives so openly. Apart from the hatred of Life on Earth, a given for denialists, you have the insect idiocy of asserting that climate realists are driven by greed. That is rank projection, typical of deformed arthropod minds. Fossil fuels are by far the greatest source of wealth and power on Earth, valued in the tens of trillions, and subsidised, according to the IMF, by five trillion or so, per year. THIS, absolute Evil, is what denialism has always been, and this, the call to mass murder, is the very essence of their poisonous existence.

    • Replies: @Sick of Orcs
  47. @Bert33

    Yet more insect stupidity. The world is full of technologists and scientists working to avert climate catastrophe, improving batteries, EVs, power transmission, electric engine and appliance efficiency, novel power sources, wind and solar efficiency etc. That such low stupidity and ignorance is driving humanity to destruction is truly laughable.

  48. @Mulga Mumblebrain

    We’ve covered this already, MM. In 80 years, not ONE eco-doomsday prediction ever came true. Career alarmists are full of shite and driven by both greed and power. Most socialist swine are.

    Hoaxers had to switch from global cooling (FAIL) to “manmade global warming,” until that flopped, now the BS has been rebranded “climate change.” The duckers can’t get their story straight.

    Fossil fuels keep the lights on, Bro. They’re still the cheapest and most powerful energy we have that isn’t nuke. And we’re finding more oil all the time.

    Except for communist globalist tyranny, the future’s looking bright.

    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
  49. @Sick of Orcs

    Of course the psychopathic imbecile is ineducable, and just doubles down on his lies. ‘Global Cooling’ was NEVER a thing among climate scientists. When Time or Newsweek was pushing it, the great consensus was already for warming, not cooling. So you’ve been conned dumb-arse. The great concentration on nomenclature, instead of the FACTS, is the sign of a very stupid mind, driven by pathopsychological hatred of ‘socialists. You’re a very Evil nonentity, but that’s all the rage these days. And, of course, solar and wind have been cheaper than fossil fuels for some years, so you’re a liar, or imbecile, or both.

    • Replies: @Bro43rd
  50. Bro43rd says:
    @Mulga Mumblebrain

    Global mean temperatures have been declining for several decades now. Climate change is directly linked to solar cycles not CO2.

    The issue that we (humanity) should be addressing is mass ecological destruction facilitated by government cronyism.

    You MM are being duped by media magicians parading theory as fact. Your ad hominem attacks show you to be the small minded person of the forum.

    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
  51. Fred Unz says: • Website

    The CCP has declared war on the west. They are openly dishonest, and have a long history of making promises they don’t keep. Perhaps the usefulness of civility and diplomacy is over. (Duh)
    Indeed, those who still promote civility and diplomacy toward the CCP are NOT taking the moral high ground, rather, they are justifying their fear; their cowardice.

  52. They are openly dishonest, and have a long history of making promises they don’t keep.

    “As long as water flows and grass grows…”

  53. @Fred Unz

    Pretty typical Sinophobe racism, lying and truly impudent projection of the West’s own habitual crimes onto others.

  54. @Bro43rd

    All the hottest years recorded have occurred since 1998. 2016 and 2020 were the warmest. You are either a truly impudent liar, or a thoroughly brainwashed hard Right cretin-or both. My refutations of the denialists’ lies are NOT ‘ad hominem’. They are ‘ad insectam’.

    • Replies: @Bro43rd
  55. Bro43rd says:
    @Mulga Mumblebrain

    Because there has been a few hot years does not negate the fact that global mean temperatures have been falling. Your insistence of parroting the cc fallacy verbatim shows you’re just a bonnified member of that cult. Climate is driven by solar cycles, not CO2. I guess the cult doesn’t allow reading non-approved materials.

    OT- Why is it so many of you Aussies are fooled by the cc fear propaganda? I guess I have been mislead into thinking the Aussies were a fiercely independent folk not so trusting of the establishment compared to the Brits. MCIP, the whole covid hysteria has not been similarly embraced.

    Also your making excuses for the asians when they are some of the worst polluters & ecological destroyers baffles me. Totally inconsistent.

    • Troll: Mulga Mumblebrain
    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
  56. @Bro43rd

    By God, they just keep getting dumber and dumberer! Who would have thought it possible? A ‘few hot years’ ie the twenty or so hottest recorded, in the last twenty-three years, with 2016 and 2020 tied as the hottest, but, somehow, in the teeming worm infestation of its mind, ‘global mean temperatures are falling’. All the agencies monitoring global mean temperatures refute your insect stupidity and lies. And the ultimate pathetic, poisonous, cretinism, the climate is ‘driven by the Sun, only’ imbecility, and the dullard denial of the role of greenhouse gases. And the poisonous piece of shit adds nassty anti-Asian racism to boot. What Evil scum they truly are!!

    • Replies: @Bro43rd
  57. Bro43rd says:
    @Mulga Mumblebrain

    Just ad hominem attacks, nothing in the way of useful dialog. You’re like a teet on a boar hog. Fortunately there’s an appropriate action to not have to see your mumblebrain slop.

  58. @Bro43rd

    Like ALL denialist psychopaths this late in the day, you ignore or deny plain facts. You are insane, and people WILL, eventually, notice who it is that joined enthusiastically in killing their children and grand-children.

  59. @Bro43rd

    Those obsessed with “climate change” are fanatical, excepting famous alarmists like Algore who buy beachfront houses despite their warnings about rising sea levels.

    • Agree: Bro43rd
  60. @mulga mumblebrain

    Mate. Take a Bex, or have a cup of tea (or something) and have a lie down. You’re the most wound-up person on Unz.

    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
  61. @Change that Matters

    The looming reality of Near Term Human Extinction ‘winds up’ only the morally sane. I imagine you are totally relaxed about it.

    • Replies: @36 ulster
  62. 36 ulster says:
    @Mulga Mumblebrain

    You’re not imagining; he and I ARE totally relaxed about it. Hypes (or hoaxes, as the case may be) don’t affect us.

    • Replies: @mulga mumblebrain
  63. 36 ulster says:
    @Fred Unz

    Yeah, but (smirk) it’s Russia that’s the main enemy; the Beltway Cabal deems it so. It ain’t the CCP, it’s the (former) CCCP. A good many of us believe that Russia is still communist, and that she is still the size of the old Soviet Union. Sadly, there’s more than (((paranoia))) over Putin’s alleged czarism that skews the views of today’s Russia. Then there’s the so-far-successful “gallant little Ukraine” narrative that will probably turn out to be of cold comfort to the Ukie military. And tragic, since, to paraphrase Bismarck, Ukraine, as presently configured, isn’t worth the bones of a single Ukrainian fusilier. Or any Azov Battalion fighter. As for China, there’s usually a time and place for diplomacy, but not enough people pretend to notice or care about that country’s rivalry with the West and the Pacific Rim nations. Our self-actuated slide into Third World culture and despotism in the pursuit of diversity, inclusion and equity, aptly abbreviated DIE, has crippled us in every imaginable way. If we pull out of this flat spin and convene a truth-and-JUSTICE commission, one that features certain and severe punishments, I’m sure the culprits will turn out to be many and varied.

  64. @36 ulster

    So, you’re an ignorant moron. I surmised that to be the case.

  65. bert33 says:

    At sea level, when heated to 212f, water changes phase from liquid to a gas and expands 1,000 times, which we know as steam, and steam has been turning turbines for a good long time now, as in the example of nuclear power. People don’t like nukes because of the radiation hazard, but people like to have electricity. TANSTAAFL, there ain’t no such thing a a free lunch, if you want 1.21 gigawatts you have to figure out how to generate it. China built the 3 gorges dam, one of the largest hydroelectric projects ever attempted, to do just that. Hydroelectric is very clean and renewable. Another clean application that way is wave power. Ocean waves are pretty much perennial, as is geothermal.

    Focus on the science of getting things done here in america, instead of whining about china. China made your pants. Without China, we’d be naked, pretty much.

  66. Either…OR ?  A Quiz
    Either:  A modern society, worldwide with all the amenities we have come to expect.
    Either: Ready access to autos, trains, busses and airplanes.
    Either: Unlimited travel to destinations of choice by air, sea or land.
    Either: Adequate housing for all.

    OR…Eight billion human beings occupying the finite Planet Earth.WHICH DO YOU CHOOSE?
    You can’t have both.

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