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On 9 to 10 November 1938 the German government encouraged its supporters to burn down synagogues and smash up Jewish homes, shops, businesses, schools. At least 91 Jews – and probably many more – were killed by Nazi supporters egged on by Joseph Goebbels, the minister for public enlightenment and propaganda, in what became known as Kristallnacht – “the Night of Broken Glass”. It was a decisive staging post on the road to mass genocide.

On 23 February 2020 in Delhi, Hindu nationalist mobs roamed the streets burning and looting mosques together with Muslim homes, shops and businesses. They killed or burned alive Muslims who could not escape and the victims were largely unprotected by the police. At least 37 people, almost all Muslims, were killed and many others beaten half to death: a two-year-old baby was stripped by a gang to see if he was circumcised – as Muslims usually are, but Hindus are not. Some Muslim women pretended to be Hindus in order to escape.

Government complicity was not as direct as in Germany 82 years earlier, but activists of the ruling Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), led by Indian prime minister Narendra Modi, were reported as being in the forefront of the attacks on Muslims. A video was published showing Muslim men, covered in blood from beatings, being forced to lie on the ground by police officers and compelled to sing patriotic songs. Modi said nothing for several days and then made a vague appeal for “peace and brotherhood”.

The government’s real attitude towards the violence was shown when it instantly transferred a judge critical of its actions during the riots. Judge Muralidhar of the Delhi High Court was hearing petitions about the violence when he said that the court could not allow “another 1984” to happen, referring to the killing of 3,000 Sikhs by mobs in Delhi in that year after the assassination of former prime minister Indira Gandhi by her Sikh bodyguards. He said the government should provide shelter for those who had been forced to flee and questioned if the police were properly recording victims’ complaints.

The government says that Judge Muralidhar’s transfer had already been announced and claims that its speedy implementation of the move had nothing to do with his remarks.

Accusations of fascist behaviour by present day political leaders and their governments, similar to that of fascist regimes in Germany, Italy and Spain in the 1930s and 1940s, should not be made lightly. Such comparisons have been frequently levelled in recent years against nationalist, authoritarian populists from the US and the Philippines to Poland to Brazil. Often the allegation is believed by the accuser and, at other times, it is simply a term of abuse. Yet Modi and the BJP appear closer than other right-wing regimes to traditional fascism in their extreme nationalism and readiness to use violence. At the centre of their agenda is their brand of Hindu nationalism and a relentless bid to marginalise or evict India’s 200 million Muslims.

The rest of the world has been slow to grasp the gravity of what is happening in India because the Modi government has played down its project to shift India away from its previous status as a pluralistic secular state. The sheer number of people negatively affected by this change is gigantic: if the Muslim minority in India was a separate country then it would be eighth largest state in the world by population.

The violence in Delhi this week stems from the fear and hatred generated by the government-directed pincer movement against Muslims in India. One pincer is in the shape of the Citizenship Amendment Act (CAA), under which non-Muslim migrants can swiftly gain Indian citizenship but Muslims cannot. Even more threatening is the National Register of Citizens (NRC), which is likely to deprive many Indian Muslims of their citizenship. It was the non-violent protests and demonstrations opposing these measures that provoked the Hindu nationalist mobs into staging what was close to a pogrom earlier this week.

Just how far Modi and the BJP will go in their anti-Muslim campaign is already in evidence in Jammu and Kashmir, the one Indian state with a Muslim majority. It was summarily stripped of its autonomy last August and has been locked down ever since. Mass detentions and torture are the norm according to the few witnesses able to report what they have seen.

For 150 days after the government revoked Jammu and Kashmir’s special status, the internet was cut off and it has only been restored to a very limited degree since January. The security forces detain who they want and distraught family members complain that they cannot find their relatives or that they are too poor to visit them in prisons that may be 800 miles away.

The isolation of Kashmir has largely worked from the government point of view in sealing it off from the outside world. But would it make much difference if events there were better known? The burnings and killings in Delhi this week are well publicised, but regarded with a certain tolerance internationally: Modi can trade off India’s reputation as a ramshackle democracy and a feeling that “communal violence” is traditional in India, like hurricanes in Florida or earthquakes in Japan, and nobody is really to blame.

There has been an encouraging, though fiercely repressed, wave of opposition in India to the degradation of its non-sectarian traditions. The danger here – and the mobs in Delhi may be a sign of this – is that Modi and his government will respond to these protests by playing the Hindu nationalist card even more strongly.

ORDER IT NOW

Dealing with foreign criticism, the government may say that, regardless of its domestic political programme, it is supercharging economic growth and this excuses its other failings. Authoritarian regimes, with control over most of their own media, often make such claims and, when economic statistics show the opposite, they simply fake a new set of figures. A recent study of the Indian economy noted that, while overall economic growth had supposedly risen strongly, the growth in investment, profits, tax revenues, imports, exports, industrial output and credit had all weakened in recent years.

In one respect, Modi is in a stronger position than Germany after Kristallnacht. President Roosevelt responded with a statement denouncing antisemitism and violence in Germany and promptly withdrew the US ambassador. President Trump, on a two-day visit to India at a time that Muslims were being hunted down and killed a few miles from where he was sitting, said he was satisfied that Modi was working “really hard” to establish religious freedom.

(Republished from The Independent by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: India, Muslims, Narendra Modi 
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  1. On 9 to 10 November 1938 the German government encouraged its supporters to burn down synagogues and smash up Jewish homes, shops, businesses, schools. At least 91 Jews – and probably many more – were killed by Nazi supporters egged on by Joseph Goebbels, the minister for public enlightenment and propaganda, in what became known as Kristallnacht – “the Night of Broken Glass”. It was a decisive staging post on the road to mass genocide.

    There is exactly zero evidence that the German government of the NSDAP itself encouraged anyone to do any of the acts you allege. This article is almost 35 years old:
    https://www.ihr.org/jhr/v06/v06p183_Weckert.html

    Your assessment of the amendment to the citizenship is wanting. The purpose of the legislation was to allow a fast track for those suffering from religious persecution in surrounding Muslim countries. A Muslim will not suffer religious persecution in a Muslim country.

    • Agree: Irish Savant
    • Thanks: nokangaroos
  2. anon[223] • Disclaimer says:

    It was a decisive staging post on the road to mass genocide.

    Encouraging precedent, let’s hope there aren’t any Muslims left in India by 2027.

    • Replies: @Just passing through
  3. every great journey …

  4. Modi, Rabid Zoinist And Rothchild Puppet.

    Hindu nationalists are transforming India into an Israel-style ethnostate.
    Inspired by Zionism, Narendra Modi’s party makes religion a condition of Indian citizenship while excluding indigenous groups and Muslims.
    https://www.972mag.com/caa-hindu-nationalism-zionism/

    Netanyahu in India: What was swept under the carpet.
    During Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu’s visit, the Indian media and the Modi government kept quiet on a few major issues.
    https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/netanyahu-india-swept-carpet-180120161503967.html

    India – Crime of the Century: Narendra Modi & Rothschild’s BIS Failed Financial Coup.

    A Financial genocide, if there was ever one. Death by demonetization, probably killing hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people, through famine, disease, even desperation and suicide – because most of India’s money was declared invalid.

    The official weak reason for this purposefully manufactured human disaster is fighting counterfeiting. What a flagrant lie! The real cause is of course – you guessed it – an order from Washington.
    https://politicalvelcraft.org/2017/01/21/india-crime-of-the-century-narendra-modi-rothschilds-bis-failed-financial-coup/

    • Agree: AnonStarter
  5. Fran800 says:
    @Curmudgeon

    What a bizarre article! Thank you Curmudgeon for exposing its nonsense. I would like to add to your sensible observations. For years I have been wondering why India didn’t rescue the persecuted Hindus in Pakistan. Why were they stuck there? Now he is doing so. Good for him. I have also wondered why once-Christian countries in the West (still many Christians here) don’t rescue the persecuted Christians in Pakistan. I know many Christians are escaping to places like Thailand where they are still persecuted, and yet we in the West continue to ignore them and bring Pakistani Muslims into our countries. Why? Now Modi is rescuing Hindus and Christians both, along some smaller South Asian groups, all of them treated abominably in evil country of Pakistan. Has the author of this article ever heard of Asia Bibi, the persecuted Christian mother in Pakistan? Why don’t Muslim countries such as Pakistan and Bangladesh offer to rescue the Rohinga who are persecuted in Burma? Why doesn’t Saudi Arabia offer to take in persecuted Palestinians?

  6. Anon[332] • Disclaimer says:

    I greatly enjoy reading these articles, as my Indian boss frequently blasts America and Christianity for being so intolerant. He loves to brag about the great tolerance of the traditional Hindu Indian culture, which supposedly holds that all religions are “true.” I do not ever respond, but it is good to see news and history that would contradict him!

    ——-

    There is a little bit of a red-pill on internal demographic change with the Muslim case in India.

    In 1951, the Muslim population was 9.9% of India, and it has grown to be 14.2% in 2011.

    India is set to get much more Muslim. And this underlies a lot of the violence we are seeing now. The growth and integration of Muslims (who used to be mostly contained in the non-British North) in other parts of India is causing a stir!

    Is this not a bad thing, from the non-Muslim standpoint? Hindu Indian culture is wonderful and unique, and Islam is not so unique. Since religions die rapidly under religious diversity (religions are exceptionally fragile), the growing Muslim minority really is a threat to traditional Indian culture. I denounce violence, but I understand the BJP.

    • Replies: @Just passing through
  7. Anon[332] • Disclaimer says:
    @Fran800

    I know the answer here: the once Christian countries of the West are atheist and actually anti-Christian and anti-religion.

    • Agree: YetAnotherAnon
  8. @Fran800

    I think many Unz review commenters (including myself) only like to criticise the Jewish state because of the hypocrisy of prominent Jews when it comes to minority rights. For example George Soros promotes causes that destroy nationalism in many countries (including India which I initially found suprising as I was under the impression that he only targeted White countries) but he never promotes anti-Zionist causes in Israel.

    I personally don’t have much sympathy with Palestinians, there is nothing to suggest they are not just another low-IQ, inbred and aggressive group who are always looking for a fight. What I find particularly stupid is why they insist on sending their kids out to throw stones when they know IDF will just shoot them in the face. They already have their state and it is called Jordan. Interestingly, the Gulf countries have millions of Indian Hindu guest workers on construction and whatnot, why don’t they give the contracts to the Palestinians?

    The interesting things is there are more Muslims in India than there are Muslims in Pakistan. Some of the Indian Muslims are just a 5th column.

    I have noticed a great deal of reporting on this India affair in MSM, these same publications never propagandise Muslim atrocities against Christians or some other non-Muslim group. It is all very odd that the entire media is out to get Modi and his gang, haven’t they got all those evil White men to be demonising?

  9. @anon

    This is being played up by the international media, India is not capable of genociding 200m Muslims within 7 years. I have been following this affair somewhat closely and it is interesting to see many pundits referring to detention centres for illegal immigrants as ‘concentration camps’. I guess Western culture spreading around the world means even the brown people now have to be scared of being called ‘Nazi’

    As someone living in Britain, I do wonder if one day we will see these sorts of riots by Muslims. I can already imagine there being a need to bring in laws to combat (mainly Islamic) terrorism and Muslim lobbying groups making a huge fuss about these laws as they disproportionately target Muslims and incite riots amongst the Pakistani population. Muslims are currently 5% of the population in the UK, what will happen when we get to 15% as is the case in India?

    • Agree: Satish Bendigiri
    • Replies: @anon
  10. @Anon

    Most Indians in the West who are political are rabid leftists, most seem to oppose the BJP government.

    https://m.rediff.com/news/report/pix-indians-hold-anti-caa-protests-in-30-us-cities/20200127.htm

    https://medium.com/@pieterjfriedrich/kshama-sawant-explains-how-seattle-passed-anti-caa-nrc-resolution-d912e43e639b

    Even old George Soros has decided to wage war on the brown nation of India for not giving in to Muslim hordes, I though that was only reserved for Europeans!

    https://www.opindia.com/2020/02/george-soros-harsh-mander-open-society-petition-arrest-bjp-leaders-delhi-riots/

  11. @Curmudgeon

    A Muslim will not suffer religious persecution in a Muslim country.

    I think you’re not so familiar with the situation on the ground in numerous countries populated predominantly by Muslims, where Muslims certainly do suffer persecution as a consequence of their religious convictions. The Muslim Brotherhood is effectively outlawed in Egypt. Minority Shi’ah also suffer persecution in Saudi Arabia. Like his father, Assad has persecuted Sunni Muslims as well. And that’s just the short list.

    It’s fairly obvious where Modi is going with this. It’ll come back to haunt him soon enough.

    • Replies: @Johann Ricke
    , @Curmudgeon
  12. @Just passing through

    They already have their state and it is called Jordan.

    Old hasbara. Long since debunked:

    https://www.nytimes.com/1990/09/16/opinion/l-jordan-and-palestine-remain-separate-entities-505890.html

    To the Editor:

    H. Z. Bornstein asserts (letter, Sept. 2) that Transjordan constituted Eastern Palestine, the eastern province of the British mandate in Palestine, until 1946.

    However, from the end of World War I in November 1918 until April 1920, the territory called Jordan was part of the Arab kingdom of Syria, established between the demise of the Ottoman Empire and the assertion of Western control over Ottoman lands. In April 1920, the San Remo peace conference, which formally ended the war, assigned France a mandate over Syria and Britain a mandate over Palestine, an area then considered to include the lands both east and west of the Jordan River.

    In March 1921, Britain offered Emir Abdullah, the grandfather of King Hussein, the governance of the area east of the Jordan River, which became known as Transjordan – the area across the Jordan from Palestine – and this area was considered thereafter as separate from Palestine. Thus, in July 1922, when the League of Nations formally confirmed Britain’s mandate over Palestine, Transjordan was excluded from the Palestine mandate and from Britain’s promise to assist in the establishment of a Jewish homeland in Palestine. In 1946, Britain granted Transjordan independence, and in 1949 the country was renamed the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.

    Israel and many of its American supporters have asserted that ”Jordan is Palestine” and that the Palestinians should be satisfied to seek fulfillment of their national aspirations in Jordan and leave all of Palestine to Israel. But the history of Transjordan-Jordan shows that except for 11 months when Jordan was carelessly thrown together with Palestine by Western powers interested only in their own colonial aggrandizement, no one – least of all the Arabs – has ever seriously regarded Jordan and Palestine as parts of the same entity.

    KATHLEEN CHRISTISON

    Santa Fe, N.M., Sept. 2, 1990

    Thanks for dropping the pretense. Saves a lot of time.

    • Replies: @Just passing through
  13. anon[223] • Disclaimer says:
    @Just passing through

    This is being played up by the international media

    Agreed, this whining about India’s immigration law is especially repellent, there are good reasons not to want any more Muslims in India, whereas Hindus and others who are oppressed in Pakistan, Bangladesh etc. should get preferential treatment.
    As for Pakis and other Muslims in Britain, imo they should be given a choice between leaving and being turned into soap bars, but unfortunately that’s of course not going to happen. Have to say I find the Indian approach more sensible, if there was something like the Paki groomers in India, Hindus would just kill a few hundred Muslims in retaliation.

  14. anon[223] • Disclaimer says:
    @Just passing through

    the Gulf countries have millions of Indian Hindu guest workers on construction and whatnot, why don’t they give the contracts to the Palestinians?

    iirc that used to happen, but Palestinians got unpopular in the Gulf countries and were seen as potentially subversive, because many of them saw Saddam Hussein as their champion and sided with him at the time of the first Gulf war.

  15. @AnonStarter

    I literally only care about Israeli/Jewish subversion of the West, very few sane people actually give a shit about Palestinians, we just like using them against the Jews.

  16. BWAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA so what. Muzzies do this kind of shit all the time. So why should I care again.

  17. @Just passing through

    For example George Soros promotes causes that destroy nationalism in many countries (including India which I initially found suprising as I was under the impression that he only targeted White countries) but he never promotes anti-Zionist causes in Israel.

    Israelis probably wish Soros confined his attentions to countries not named Israel.

    https://hungarytoday.hu/yair-netanyahu-soros-organizations-destroying-israel-from-the-inside/

  18. @AnonStarter

    I think you’re not so familiar with the situation on the ground in numerous countries populated predominantly by Muslims, where Muslims certainly do suffer persecution as a consequence of their religious convictions. The Muslim Brotherhood is effectively outlawed in Egypt. Minority Shi’ah also suffer persecution in Saudi Arabia. Like his father, Assad has persecuted Sunni Muslims as well. And that’s just the short list.

    So Muslims in power persecute Muslims of other sects? And the persecuted would do the same to their persecutors if they were in power? So what else is new in the Muslim world?

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
    , @Ko
  19. Ko says:

    Yes, and the peaceloving Muslims are murdering non-muslims all over the planet. What have you got to say about that?

    Muslims have murdered Christians, Buddhists, and indignious peoples and converted once Buddhist Bangladesh into a Muslim nation.

    Could it be that not everyone wants to be sliced in half by insane islamists and rather they’d fight back instead? Unlike the spineless Europeans.

    • Agree: Hail
  20. @Just passing through

    I literally only care about Israeli/Jewish subversion of the West

    If you did, you’d realize that a core facet of that subversion concerns their effort to pit the West against Muslims and vice versa. Rant about Soros as you’d like, we’ve got a considerably influential faction of anti-Islam brigadiers training in Camp Zion, all of them well subsidized, and the fact that you swallowed that “Jordan is Palestine” tripe so easily is proof of the pervasiveness of their influence.

    “Let’s you and him fight” is one of their favorite strategies. The effort to dehumanize and vilify Islam is much like basic training in Camp Zion: you have to be programmed to see your enemy as subhuman. All the easier to treat them like animals.

    Once you begin thinking like a zionist, it’s too late. They’ve already subverted you.

    • LOL: Lot
    • Replies: @Just passing through
  21. @Johann Ricke

    So Muslims in power persecute Muslims of other sects?

    Ataturk considered himself Muslim, but I doubt he’d fit the definition of one when comparing his conduct against what’s prescribed in Islam. Alcoholism and homosexuality don’t quite dovetail with the religion, and throwing Muslims in prison for writing in Arabic doesn’t really jibe with an Islamic identity. He’s just the clearest example, of course. Many more have come and gone throughout the Muslim world.

    And the persecuted would do the same to their persecutors if they were in power?

    No, not necessarily. Pound for pound, Erdogan doesn’t come close to M. Kemal.

    But go ahead and try to divert the discussion from the subject of Modi’s intent, anyways. Knock yourself out.

  22. Anon[373] • Disclaimer says:
    @Curmudgeon

    Assam ,a north eastern state of India has been complaining about illegal immigration from 1980. Prior to 1970, Assam has been. raising the issue as well culminating into periodic riot and expulsion of Bengalese from Indian state of West Bengal. But for last 3 decades ,the focus has shifted to infiltrators from Bangladesh .
    Here it gets tricky for the RSS – BJO- Hinduvatta . They commissioned certain polices and applied to Assam. Out of 2,5 millions ,1.7 millions were found Hindu lacking documents . They didn’t expect it though they knew Hindu Bangladeshi had infiltrated . The magnitude spoilt their game. Now after this finding,they came with offering selective asylum based religion. It solidified their world view but was seen by Assamese as if a knife had been thrust into their chest by the fellow faithfuls.
    Assam is the place where first this agitation against citizenship act started . Assam doesn’t want any Bengali .

    The other part of the problem is how to identify the outsider ,non native,infiltrators.? India has only in last 20 years or so has started some kind of document that shows the citizenship . But it is dubious ,I’ll planned,and beset with many faults . Both Hindus and Muslims have raised this inadequacy . But it is mostly Muslim a who are afraid . This is why non Bengali speaking Muslims in Delhi Bihar Punjab,South India are protesting .

    India is giving an impression that it is following American example . But these people who are rendered without citizenship are not stopped or identified at borders but picked up from home . They are asked to provide certificates and documents which have never been well delineated ,enforced,and were never required for job,school admission or buying house or lands until few years ago.
    People have used voters card or high school leaving certificate or simply went to court with some witness vouching for the person.

    .if tomorrow each and 3very Indian is asked to provide documents of citizenship, more than 80 percent possibly won’t be able to do so . Often these recent latest documents are being issued after establishing the residence of father,grandfather or even great grand father .

    But Muslims won’t be spared when any of them can’t produce while Hindus will be allowed . There lies the problem.
    A problem Hitler would have loved to solve . By the way Hitler was very popular hero for RSS in 1940.
    Now Israel is very popular and Netanyahu is a hero to all RSS – BJP brigand .

    Enjoy

  23. On the zionist roots of anti-Islam propaganda:

    https://dissidentvoice.org/2018/05/the-israeli-government-role-in-promoting-islamophobia-internationally/

    As Deepa Kumar at Rutgers University reports, the effort to tie Islam to terrorism started at a Zionist funded neoconservative conference on international terrorism in 1979. Then, after a second such conference in 1984, “both US neocons and Zionists worked together to convince Western policy makers that ‘Islamic terrorism’ would replace communism as the West’s next great threat. By tying Islam to terrorism, neocons would gain political cover for their imperialistic ambitions in the Middle East, and Zionists would benefit from garnering Western sympathies for their struggle against Palestinian ‘terrorism.’” …

    According to the Center for American Progress, the US has six major organizations that manipulate Islamophobia in order to further US support for Israel. These are the Center for Security Policy, the Society of Americans for National Existence, the Middle East Forum, Jihad Watch, Stop Islamization of America, and the Investigative Project on Terrorism.

    The article at the last link is definitely worth a read, chock-a-block with evidence that the anti-Islam campaign is part and parcel of the zionist agenda.

    • Agree: animalogic
  24. anon[166] • Disclaimer says:
    @AnonStarter

    Modis rise is linked to Israel. The diaspora Hindu learned the tricks from Israel starting way back in 1990

    In 2006, Joint session of Congress allowed the relationship to be showcased . lantos ( the shit head Russian -oligarch embracing thief from CA) told the Hindu BJP delegate that “ Israel is surrounded by 200 million muslim and India is inhabited by 200 million muslims “

    That SOB was allowed to get away with this Hate speech . He was allowed to get away with this incitement in the House. Yes Islamophobia is Zionist created .

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  25. @anon

    Indeed, but I prefer not to use the term “hate speech,” since it was coined with the intent to criminalize expression objectionable to zionists. Muslim Americans would do well not to support “hate speech” laws, as they themselves will find it very difficult to openly criticize Israel should such legislation gain ground.

    Let others say what they will. Criminal action is criminal action that can be prosecuted as such under the auspices of the current legal system.

    • Replies: @Just passing through
  26. zimriel says:

    The greatest works of Zionist antiIslamic propaganda are the Koran and Hadith. All the Zionist Islamophobe needs to do is to quote them. And to quote them in context – the context being the conduct of the Arab armies 600-800 AD.

    What a devil the Zionist is, telling the truth about his enemy.

    The Serbs and the Hindus must be Zionists too. And the Buddhists.

  27. MBlanc46 says:

    Not my problem.

    • Replies: @Hail
  28. Malla says:

    In the Western State in India of Maharastra, a right wing party called MNS (Maharastra Navnirman Sena) is on a hunt for illegal immigrants from Bangladesh & Pakistan.

    https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/trends/mns-to-give-rs-5000-for-intel-on-illegal-immigrants-in-maharashtra-4987071.html

    MNS to give Rs 5,000 for intel on illegal immigrants in Maharashtra

    The Maharashtra Navnirman Sena (MNS) has announced it will reward everyone who provide intel on illegal migrants from Pakistan and Bangladesh in Maharashtra.

    While a poster located in Mumbai’s Bandra area announced a financial reward of Rs 5,555, another put up in Aurangabad offered Rs 5,000 to every informant, reported India Today. Maharashtra Chief Minister Uddhav Thackeray’s cousin Raj Thackeray is the leader and founder of the party.”

    MNS workers barge into houses in Pune (city in Maharastra, India), demand citizenship proof to identify illegal immigrants
    Maharashtra Navnirman Sena (MNS) workers on Saturday launched an operation to “throw out” the illegal immigrants from Pune in Maharashtra. Speaking to India Today TV, MNS Pune president, Ajay Shinde said that the party workers caught three illegal immigrants and handed them to the police.

    He said, “This is the first phase of our operation – throw out illegal immigrants. Today, we caught three suspected illegal immigrants and we handed them to the Pune Police. Few families escaped from the area where we carried out a search operation.”

    When pointed out that it was illegal to barge into someone’s house without any concrete information, Ajay Shinde said he has enough “documentary evidence” that there were illegal immigrants in Pune.

    “We had been keeping an eye on the suspected illegal immigrants in Pune and adjoining industrial area. Our Information is that there is a large number of Bangladeshi workers who have been living illegally,” he said.”

    Imagine the BNP in the UK doing something like that! Or some party in the USA. You nice 100 IQ Whiteys need to learn how to protect your borders from us IQ 82 brown folk. SMH.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Anon
  29. Anonymous[294] • Disclaimer says:

    INDIAN MUSLIMS ARE SAFEST IN INDIA THAN ANY OTHER PLACE IN THE WORLD.

    The Modi government’s Citizenship Amendment Act 2019 provides for the citizenship of six communities of Hindus, Christians, Sikhs, Jains, Buddhists and Parsis ( EXCEPT Muslims) from Afghanistan, Pakistan and Bangladesh. Those who have entered India as refugees from these three countries will benefit from this Act. Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, Jains, Christians, and Parsi communities in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Bangladesh suffered grave injustice and persecution. Mr. Amit Shah said in the Lok Sabha that the bill was brought to give them the citizenship of India. Congress, Shiv Sena and other parties objected for the non-inclusion of Muslims. The government clarified that Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Bangladesh are Islamic republics where Muslims are in majority hence they cannot be treated as persecuted minorities. The government also assured that it would examine the application from any other community on case to case basis.

    [MORE]

    Article 5 to 11 ( Part II ) of the Indian Constitution provides for citizenship of India. Parliament has the right to make laws and amend them to determine who are citizens of India and what are their provisions and norms. Accordingly, the Citizenship Act of 1955 was enacted. From time to time, it has been amended. This Act is comprehensive and explains how a person can be granted Indian citizenship and what are the requirements for becoming an Indian citizen. There were many amendments made to the Citizenship Act 1955 and have been amended five times in 1986, 1992, 2003, 2005 and 2015. It was approved in the Lok Sabha in 2016, but couldn’t be approved in the Rajya Sabha as its term got expired.

    Indian citizens get citizenship by birth ( born in India), by consent, and by acceptance with due procedure. Getting citizenship by birth is a practice all over the world. This is called ” jus soli ” ( right of the soil ). A person born in India from 26 January 1950 until 1 July 1987 is a citizen by birth, whatever be the parents’ nationality. A person born in India after this date ( on or after 1 July 1987 ) is a citizen of India if either parent was a citizen of India at the time of his/her birth. The right of citizenship was restricted further in 2004; by abolishing ” jus soli ( right of the soil ) and adopting ” jus sanguinis ” ( right of the blood ) principle. Those born in India on or after 3 December 2004 are considered citizens of India only if both of their parents are citizens of India or if one parent is a citizen of India and the other is not an ILLEGAL migrant at the time of their birth. These measures were brought about largely in reaction to illegal immigration from Bangladesh.

    Indian citizenship ends or ceases to operate for three reasons when:

    1) someone voluntarily relinquishes Indian citizenship. ( Which Muslim would like to do this? They know that India is the safest country as compared to any Muslim country in the world. So they need not fear ).

    2) someone accepts citizenship of another country. ( Most countries in the world are reluctant to welcome Muslims post 9/11 and their nuisance value. They can be a nuisance only in India because Hindus tolerate it. ( And wherever Hindus have gone they have proved that they are peace-loving people, hard workers, intelligent, talented and they contribute to the economic growth of the country in which they reside). So Muslims need not fear.

    3) the government takes away one’s citizenship. ( This is what Muslims fear as on today. If they go through the Citizens Amendment Act right from 1955 onwards they will realize that their citizenship will NOT be confiscated. So they need not fear. But yes, if they have illegally entered India through the porous borders, coming to India all the way from Myanmar by traveling 1700 km. and not daring to enter into China which is just a few km.away, engaging in loot and arson here, damaging public properties funded by taxpayers’ money, uprooting rail tracks, and do not have supporting documents to prove their legality, yes they will be deported.)

    Basically, the idea of a separate land for Muslims was beyond the comprehension of the Muslims who were staying in India during partition, although Jinnah made it think about, based on a pamphlet titled ” Now or Never, Are we to Live or Perish Forever? by Rehmat Ali in 1933 talking about creating a Pakistan, an acronym which stood for P- Punjab, A- Afghan ( NWFP ), K- Kashmir, S- Sindh, and Tan for Baluchistan.

    Around 1940 Muslim League used this newfound concept as bargaining power with Congress and by the time people were fully aware of what was this idea, the nation split into two.

    Those Muslims decided to stay in India were thinking that this idea of a separate land was still in its nascent stage and thus were reluctant to move to a land so far away from their place and were happy here. Imagine a Muslim staying in Kerala or Karnataka deciding to start a fresh life in Karachi or Lahore, uprooting his roots here. Besides their lifestyle was more common with their Hindu neighbors than their counterparts in Pakistan. Perhaps a Sikh in Amritsar might have been more common with a Muslim person in Karachi.

    So far so good. The question is why the opposition party, the so-called intellectuals, Bollywood celebrities, the journalists and other strata of the society is opposing this Act? If the so-called strata which is opposing is non-Muslim and belong to one of the six religions ( now eligible to become Indian citizen) and have been staying in India for quite long, why oppose and why fear? Even those Muslims satisfying ” jus soli ” and ” jus sanguinis ” principles have nothing to fear, the fact which is time and again reiterated by Home Minister and even Prime Minister. Those Muslims who decided to stay in India during partition were also free and were into the mainstream for quite long. In fact, those who came to India flourished. We loved Yusuf Khan aka Dilip Kumar. We loved Mehdi Hassan, Gulam Ali, Noor Jehan, and so many artists although they were Pakistani nationals. In fact, the Muslim population grew by leaps and bounds and we had even a Muslim President. Our cricket team had so many Muslims and many even captained the Indian cricket team. Such things never happened in Pakistan. Contrary to it, Hindu population dwindled. They were persecuted.

    After independence, Hindus, Christians, and Sikhs formed about 15-17% of Pakistan’s population which has come to single digits. By contrast, the Muslim population has multiplied in a big way.

    Congress put its reliance on Muslim vote bank and neglected Hindus to some extent, especially upper-caste Hindus who believed in Sangh Parivar and pampered Muslims. Congress even supported the Sikh massacre after Indira Gandhi was assassinated. About 3,00, 000 Hindu Pandits were driven out from Kashmir by terrorism sponsored from Pakistan and Congress neglected them by keeping mum. The BJP took up their cause. The Muslims and their supporters in the Congress and its Muslim supporters were arrogant to the significance of Ayodhya in Hindu consciousness. The Congress and Muslim clergies could have easily met a legitimate demand by Hindus but Congress went a step further questioning the authenticity of Ramayana. Congress neglected other communities such as Jain, Parsis, and Buddhists.

    The winds are blowing in different directions now. It is a myth that all Muslims are pro-Congress. Muslims have numerous sects such as , bohras, wahabis, khojas, deoband, memons, ahle- hadis and so on. They claim among themselves that they are more loyal to the Islamic faith than the others. The regional divide of them have pathans, bagwans, sheikhs, quereshis, ansaris, syeds etc. and there is nothing common in them. The only commonality is they all follow Islam. They rarely mix with each other and are conscious of their own identities. They have a separate mosque. Pathans, Sheikhs and Sayyads are superior whereas Quereshis and Ansaris are lower strata of the society. More upper castes like Bohras and Khojas have prejudices against other Muslims and hold them in contempt and call them as Miyabhai. Rather than mixing with their own caste, Bohras and Khojas and Memons mix with Hindus. These separate identities reflect their economic disparity as well. Most important is this each sect has their own clergy and these clergies also differ in their opinion as they keep their followers divided. Consequently, their political opinions differ and some support congress and some of them do not. Some wealthy upper-caste extend financial support to politically inclined members and in return get political patronage as these supporters require a favourable environment to do their business and flourish. The clergies join hands and appeal to the followers to vote for the party which assures them of continuous support.

    The wealthy community has influence over their followers as they believe in charity and help for well being of the poor. In spite of this altruism, the followers ignored Imam Bukhari in 1993 to boycott Republic Day and hoist the Black flag.

    Sabarmati express was doused with petrol and karsevaks returning from Ayodhya were burnt in February 2002 . Then during the tenure of Narendra Modi as a Chief Minister of Gujarat, the upper caste Muslims such as Khojas, Bohras, and Memons spoke in favor of Narendra Modi and supported BJP.

    Syed Ahmed Bukhari of Delhi’s Jama Masjid also spoke that CAA has nothing to do with India’s Muslims and has supported Narendra Modi and Amit Shah, and more recently Donald Trump also supported Modi.

    Western Media is biased.

    • Replies: @Meena
  30. Malla says:

    How is Hitler different from the Hinduvadis? Well it is elementary Watson, the German National Socialists were against the Zio NWO eites, the Hindutva folk at the top, work for the NWO elites. That is why Roosevelt behaved one way with the Third Reich and President Trump behaves if a different way with ‘teflon nation’ Hindutva India.
    The Hinduvadi BJP is been pushing NWO policies all along, been pushing the bio-metric (Mark of the beast precursor) Aadhar card system and the system is been provided by a French company close to the CIA. The BJP is pushing for a cashless society. Hindutvaism is only a blanket to keep the low IQ thugs and population busy while they sneakily administer more NWO policies on the sly. India may end up become a Hindutva Soviet Union where instead of Communism the controlling ideology will be Hindutva. The result will be same, enslavement of the people in a Orwellian future.

    There is a Netflix Hindi program called Laila which may show how a dystopian Hindutva Orwellian India will look in the future.

    #ReasonsWhy: ‘Leila’ Is a Show That Will Force You to Re-Think (in English)

    Leila Review: 10 Reasons why the Netflix series is too close to todays India | Ep.95 The DeshBhakt
    Hindi with English subtitles, click on subtitles

    Leila, Official Netflix Trailer (English subtitles)

    • Replies: @Just passing through
  31. @AnonStarter

    The problem occurs when people buy into the whole Zionist run ‘counter-Jihad’ movement with people like Tommy Robinson or organisations like PEGIDA. These organisations shill for Israel while attacking Islam.

    I hate both of them, I am fully aware of the JQ and will see world events through that lense but I certainly won’t go down the delusion of supporting Muslims just because some of them hate Jews, in fact, Muslims are just Jewish golem and they too deserve our hate.

    Jews let Muslims into our countries, Muslims commit terror attacks and engage in rape gangs and crime. Both are responsible for the predicament White countries are in.

  32. @AnonStarter

    Muslims only help the Zionists in vilifying their religion by their acts, Zionists may control the press and have the power to demonise one group, but Zionists do not force Muslims to form massive rape gangs that abuse hundreds of thousands of white girls or commit those stabbing attacks.

    The UK prison population is disproportionately Muslim. Pakistanis make up a permanent underclass here in the UK and unlike the White underclass, they are much much worse and engage in all sorts of skulldugery

    It is the Jews’ fault for letting you into Western countries en masses, it is the fault of Muslims for then attacking the host population by murdering and raping them.

    • Replies: @BDS Always
  33. @AnonStarter

    Muslims are the biggest supporters of hate speech laws, they know that it is worth not being able to criticise Israel in exchange for the host population not being able to criticise Muslims.

    The former would not result in much as the average person does not care about Muslim persecution by Israel, only leftist idiots care. Muslim anti-Zionists never talk about Israeli/Jewish subversion of Western countries in regards to undermining traditional European society, because if they did, people would want nothing to do with Muslims either and there would be growing support for repatriation of Muslims (amongst others)

    If anything, when Muslims criticise Israel, it just increases support for Israel as nobody really likes Muslims.

    • Agree: Malla
    • Replies: @Ko
    , @AnonStarter
  34. @Just passing through

    Child Abuse: The End For Big Insurers. (This is never talked about)
    When Municipal Mutual threatened Clwyd Council, and threatened to cancel the authority’s cover, Municial was already in a highly vulnerable financial state.
    In 1994 the Local Government Chronicle reported that following a ‘scheme of arrangement’ – in the hands of receivers might be a better term – Municipal faced “future claims of £925m compared with assets of £45m.”

    Hardly surprising that the company was on edge at the idea of an expanding child abuse enquiry.
    https://www.ukcolumn.org/article/child-abuse-end-big-insurers

    You do not half “Talk Some Bollocks” as we say in England.
    Nothing Islamic, unless one believes the Treasonous Zio Puppet Tommy “4 Names” Robinsons Waffle, in seeking out young vunarable girls, giving them drink, drugs, and then after a period of brainwashing the girls into believing that they care for them they abuse them.

    Drink, Drugs, Sex outside of Marriage, all forbidden in Islam. Do we ever blame Christianty or Sikhism etc when week in week out child abusers are charged?

    https://theukdatabase.net/category/all-areas/

    A Nonce is a Nonce, string them all up.

  35. Modi, in some of photos, looks like such a kindly and benign figure, but his policies have released chaos and violence.

  36. I’m an Indian Indian from the South born a Hindu & now an atheist/agnostic and words can’t convey how much I hate these Hindutva retards. That semi-literate low class thug Modi & his mass murdering crony the hideous Amit Shah with their plague of locusts (Violent sub 80 IQ retards mainly from the north) are making India medieval again MIMA.

    The veneer of political modernity was always very thin in India which is being a liberal, secular & democratic republic, which was carefully nurtured by our first Prime Minister Nehru and was almost ended by his daughter Indira and which is now being ended by these religious fanatics. I utterly loathe religious fanatics which’s why I can’t stand Islam and now I’ve to add Hinduism to the list. It’s heartbreaking as it was a matter of pride to me that Hinduism had modernized and wasn’t overrun by crazed religious fanatics like Islam. But now can any honest observer say that? I am so utterly fucking depressed at seeing my nation go ‘full retard’ like the Germans in the 1930’s and the Chinese during their ‘Cultural Revolution.’ I am so glad that the South by and large told these retards to fuck off. We’re paying a price for it He’s denying us funds which the centre owes us, there’s a sinister plan to scrap ‘delimitation’ – the Indian Parliament no of MPs hasn’t changed since the seventies because the South said that they would be punished for successfully implementing family planning and once that happens we’ll be totally marginalized and they don’t even have to pretend to give a fuck.

    At this point I’m all for secession – the confederate States of South India anyone – lets see how these BIMARU retards run the Nuclear, Space, Missile and Tech programs without us. Within a decade they will be to us what Mexico is to you guys – an endless source of unskilled labourers their best will anyway emigrate to us. Fuck them Hindutva Morons.

  37. Ko says:
    @Johann Ricke

    So Muslims in power persecute Muslims of other sects? And the persecuted would do the same to their persecutors if they were in power? So what else is new in the Muslim world?

    That’s exaclty what happened in Rakhine State in Myanmar. The Islamic ARSA groups went into villages and converted young muslims, boys and men, and installed a madrassas and Imams. Anyone who resisted was forced to leave the village. Anyone who argued against being expelled was murdered.

    When the Burmese Army (Tatmadaw) finally fought back against the evergrowing violent ARSA, they approached villages, asked leaders to identify the Imams and Arsa supporters, and if the villages cooperated, they were spared. If they resisted, they were torched.

    No one talks about the nearly one million muslims in Rakhines state that fought against the ARSA terrorists. They remain in Rakhine State, and they lived side by side with Buddhists – whom all idnentify as Myanmar.

    Reality is messy.

    • Replies: @Malla
  38. Ko says:
    @Just passing through

    Muslims are also as corrupt, hateful, bigoted, violent, and murderous as anyone else in earth.

    • Replies: @KA
    , @SBaker
  39. @Malla

    LOL, they are making Hindu supremacist related films in India just like they are making White supremacist related films in the West.

    Will Netflix ever make a show about Jewish or Muslims supremacist groups?

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Malla
  40. @Just passing through

    Muslims are the biggest supporters of hate speech laws

    You’d have to be living under a rock to think that anyone but zionists were the biggest supporters of such legislation. They, not Muslims, are the very architects of these laws.

    the average person does not care about Muslim persecution by Israel, only leftist idiots care

    You’re quite mistaken. The problem of anti-Islamic zionism has garnered significant bipartisan attention in recent years, many here at UR reflect consciousness of it, and the BDS movement has gained more momentum in its early stage than the anti-apartheid movement had in its first years:

    Muslim anti-Zionists never talk about Israeli/Jewish subversion of Western countries in regards to undermining traditional European society

    You obviously haven’t been paying attention to my posts then.

    The single most defining and distinguishing characteristic of America is the First Amendment. It follows then, that America’s enemies will seek to undermine this bedrock principle of law first and foremost in their effort to subvert and alter irrevocably the American ethos. I, a Muslim American, have been discussing this topic regularly here at UR for years now and my position against “hate speech” laws is well known among those following my contributions.

    Incidentally, 68 percent of the Rotherdam child exploitation ring weren’t Asian:

    Majority of Rotherham child exploitation suspects are white, claims new report

    Perhaps you should be focused first and foremost upon the depravity of your fellow skinmates if you wish to “clean house,” no?

    Here’s another bit of factual information for you, free of charge: With rare exception, for the last century, individuals who actually fit the definition of Muslim have been routinely prevented from holding office in their respective homelands, thanks to Israel and its western golems — who hold significantly more political sway over the millennial Muslim world than do Muslim immigrants to the west. This has been the consistent imposition of western realpolitik since WWI and you’d have to be fairly oblivious to the history of the Muslim world to think otherwise.

    When you entertain the cartoon cut-out perspective of the world as you do — one haplessly informed by cherry-picked data and knee-jerk jingoism — you yourself merely serve the agenda of Israel. When and where it rears its head, I decry the same kind of disposition among Muslims as well, as they also serve this agenda by such superficial reasoning, consciously or not.

    I don’t have any problem with restrictions on immigration to the west, but the problem is strictly one of economics, not a religious one.

    • Replies: @Just passing through
  41. KA says:
    @Ko

    Yes ,they are. Difference is this that the world at this particular time is felicitating cozying up to, and seeking the blessings of leaders like Modi , Netanyahu and Birmese PM while the same world is denigrating leaders of ISIS and ALQuiada, Thats the difference. It’s not polemical or rhetorical issues . Current crops of BJP leaders asking openly for murdering muslim in India, and seeing fire to the tenets of the victims of the riot previously committed by them set a new standard in body politic of India.

    Bibi Netanyahu cabinet has much worst members who support blinding of the children , separate but filthy roads for Palestinian, killing them at whims, sabotaging the due process at judiciary by having similar minded judges ,offering discriminatory verdicts and sen fences for sam e crimes based on religion, relocating them out of country ,periodic wars ,threatening wars and many more crimes that Taliban possibly had . Later did it with beard ,white dress, rifle and on unpaved roads .

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
    , @Ko
  42. Malla says:
    @Just passing through

    LOL, they are making Hindu supremacist related films in India just like they are making White supremacist related films in the West.

    Very true, except that Hindu Supremacists actually control India while White supremacists control no government.

  43. Meena says:

    2002 Godhra train burning was an accident that originated from within the train compartment due to ?willful or accidental neglect of the safety issues about Kerosene lamp . But it was blamed on Muslim and that blame led to killings of thousands in Gujarat . That killings of muslim elevated the image of Modi . Pathetic Obama who wanted to kill Assd for “gassing “his people removed the travel ban to Modi .

    The book-
    The Clash Within
    Democracy, Religious Violence, and India’s Future
    Martha C. Nussbaum

    supports the view largely reported initially by certain media and by the initial judiciary findings of the Godhra Train Burning incident.

    . But that report was under BJP RSS pressure was shelved or ignored .

    Years later Indian media will accept the truth and own the responsibility but the damage is done and the damage keeps on giving even

    ” 15 years after Godhra, we still don’t know who lit the fire
    What is perhaps closest to the truth is the report by the Forensic Studies Laboratory at Gandhinagar, Gujarat, which concluded that the coach was set afire by someone “standing in the passage of the compartment near seat number 72, using a container with a wide opening about 60 litres of inflammable liquid has been poured and then a fire has been started in the bogie”

    https://www.hindustantimes.com/analysis/15-years-after-the-godhra-we-still-don-t-know-who-lit-the-fire/story-vkeZowN2nhvVkAJPZAPntN.html

    This pattern of behaviors characterize BJP RSS Indian Hinduvatta propaganda. They used similar strategies in 1987 and 1992 .

    Question is did the fire originate accidentally or was it set by the agent provocateur (that killed 3000 Hindu zealot ) to incite violence and riot . Question is this -was the Gujrat violence spontaneous and accidental or was it planned and orchestrated to bring Modi and BJP to power and to solidify the base based on anti muslim hatred .

    911 created a negative view of Muslim and allowed other countries to view that America wouldn’t raise any moral or legal or economic challenges to any government despite them engaging into mass murdering of citizen as long as it was mostly muslim . . India took that advantage to its fullest extent .

  44. Malla says:
    @Ko

    I think the Zio elties are flaming Wahabi Sunni Islam too. Can someone explain to me how Saudi Arabia which funds all these Wahabi crap around the world, funds mosques in Europe and the West is one of the best friends of Western governments? The western elites even supported the conquests of the Saud clan to form Saudi Arabia. Oil cannot explain anything as Saddam had oil (Saddam was close to the CIA in his youth when he was in Egypt BTW), Iran today has oil. At the same time European governments allow muslims to come unabated especially in some case backward fundamentalist Muslims. Something does not seem right.
    As Imam Imran Husseini said, Israel and Saudi Arabia are sister nations, behind the scenes.

  45. Malla says:
    @Just passing through

    These Hinduvadi retards are in bed with the Jews. They love Zionism, they love Palestinian kids been blown smithereens. I hate muslim fundus too, but if there is one population on earth what will kiss Jew ass the most, it are the Hinduvadis. Christian Zionists have tough competition in this game of ‘ass kiss Israel’. They would lose easily to hinduvadis.
    Game of Ass kissing Jews and Israel by lowly ‘subhuman Goyims’, the rankings
    No. 1 Spot subhuman goyim: Hinduvadi retards
    Distant No.2 SPOT goyim: Christian Zionist retards
    Indeed Zionism is partly behind Hindu fundamentalism.

  46. @AnonStarter

    You’d have to be living under a rock to think that anyone but zionists were the biggest supporters of such legislation. They, not Muslims, are the very architects of these laws.

    I agree, only Jews have the institutional power to enact such laws, but that doesn’t mean Muslims do not want these laws to be enacted or would support scrapping of all hate speech laws. Because they correctly identify that while they might then have the freedom to complain about Israel, another group – the far-right – will also complain about Israel AND about Muslims, Muslims anti-Zionists will have no unique selling point. Protection of Jews is in reality also a protection of Muslims, the European guilt of the Holocaust is what stop many Europeans from voting for parties that advocate for mass repatriation of Muslims and other non-Europeans.

    You’re quite mistaken. The problem of anti-Islamic zionism has garnered significant bipartisan attention in recent years, many here at UR reflect consciousness of it, and the BDS movement has gained more momentum in its early stage than the anti-apartheid movement had in its first years:

    The problem with Zionist led counter-Jihad is that it bills itself as a patriotic and nationalists movement but denounces ethnic nationalism, Zionist lead counter-Jihad only cares about Muslims. Tommy Robinson for example believes that ‘anyone can be English’, these sorts of things are just Islam-exclusionary Cultural Marxist talking points i.e. anyone can be English, even Bantus…as long as they are not Muslim. This movement aims to target a particuar cultural (in this case Islam) to keep the flames of civic nationalism going, that is why it is so destructive, because it acts as a gatekeeper movement. It is however correct about the harmful effects of Muslims in Western society.

    You obviously haven’t been paying attention to my posts then.

    The single most defining and distinguishing characteristic of America is the First Amendment. It follows then, that America’s enemies will seek to undermine this bedrock principle of law first and foremost in their effort to subvert and alter irrevocably the American ethos. I, a Muslim American, have been discussing this topic regularly here at UR for years now and my position against “hate speech” laws is well known among those following my contributions.

    Incidentally, 68 percent of the Rotherdam child exploitation ring weren’t Asian:

    There will always be exceptions to the rule, but the vast majority of Muslims are supportive of laws that make it more difficult to criticise Islam or Muslims. Muslims are just less intelligent version of Jews. While Jews engage in all sorts of intrigue behind the scenese by deplatforming their opponents, Muslims start rioting and killing.

    When something offensive about the Holocaust is published, Jews mobilise their agents to heap financial and political pressure on the offenders, when something offensive about Islam is published (Salman Rushdie Affair, Danish cartoon controversy, Charlie Hebdo), Muslims chimp out in the most low-IQ manner imaginable.

    In regards to the Muslim rape gangs, it is known that most paedophiles are indeed White, that is what the link you cite tells us. What it doesn’t tell us is that almost all the rape gangs were Pakistani Muslim. Your line of logic is like saying ‘Most murders in the UK are commited by Whites, therefore we shouldn’t be outraged when some Muslims mow down innocent civilians’, the things these girls had to go through at the hands of these low-IQ Muslim savages is unbelievable. A good book on this subject is the follwing;

    So yes, White males may make up the majority of kiddy fiddlers/rapists, I say go medieval on them. But they didn’t engage in the type of behaviour the Muslim gangs engaged in like murdering what they see as sub-human kuffar White girls when they resisted their gang rape. Another aspect is that White males are indegenous to Europe, they are not abusing their hospitality like Muslims are by murdering and raping innocent Europeans.

    And your inforgraphic of South Africa is kind of funny, because South Africa after achieving ‘freedom’ is rife with AIDS and struggles to keep the lights on.

    • Agree: SBaker
    • Replies: @AnonStarter
    , @BDS Always
  47. @Grahamsno(G64)

    I wonder if you would feel the same way if the bottom half of India was dark green? It should also be noted that the the Northern states are very densely populated so the majority of Indian Muslims will live in the north, the percentage map does not do justice to showing how heavily Muslim the north of India is.

  48. @KA

    I’m not sure most folks here have much of a clue as to the history of the Muslim world following WWI, how the constructs of nation-statehood and secular administration were imposed upon the greater portion of it by western polities. The notion that these nation-states were effectively independent is undermined by the actual political and economic pressure that was brought to bear upon them in order to maintain de facto western hegemony.

    In countries such as Egypt and Turkey, grass-roots efforts to restore Islamic political administration were brutally repressed and this has been a recurring pattern throughout the millennial Muslim world. Erdogan still cannot affect any significant turnabout from secular rule, the leadership of Saudi Arabia is rife with hypocrisy, and Egypt languishes under a tyrant who would sooner murder Muslims than allow them ascent to administrative authority. Saddam, Gaddhafi, and Assad weren’t really a problem for the west while they kept sincere Muslims firmly under their jackboot.

    To say that the west, as a proxy for Israel, has kept the Muslim world subjugated to its political objectives for the last century would be a gross understatement. Understanding this fact helps to explain the persecution that Christian minorities experience, particularly after 9/11 and America’s roughshod invasion and occupation of Iraq. It certainly doesn’t excuse that persecution, but cartoon caricature extremists — the corollary of UR’s anti-Islam brigadiers — predicate their action upon a superficial, guilt-by-association perspective of the world fueled by the very recent history of western manipulation in their respective country’s administrative affairs. (See, for example, the rationale of bin Laden and company.)

    Dismissing this history with a cavalier attitude only exacerbates the issue. Until American foreign policy reflects a disposition that isn’t as lopsidedly pro-Israel as it currently is, it will only get worse. Change that foreign policy for the better and you squelch the extremism on all sides.

    It’s really just that simple.

    • Troll: SBaker
  49. On 9 to 10 November 1938…burn down…smash up…shops, businesses…91…killed

    Yawn…whatever…sorry about that chimpout…

    1992 Los Angeles riots

    …thousands of people rioted over a six-day period…looting, assault, arson…63 people were killed…property damage were over $1 billion

  50. @Just passing through

    So yes, White males may make up the majority of kiddy fiddlers/rapists, I say go medieval on them. But they didn’t engage in the type of behaviour the Muslim gangs engaged in

    When we attempt to measure the severity of child molestation against that of gang rape, we’re approaching the realm of absurdity. As an argument, this sort of moral relativism lacks any kind of persuasive weight.

    You want to talk about abuse of the non-indigenous? Look no further than the greater Muslim world, where American and European powers have labored to maintain a de facto hegemony over the affairs of its nation-states for more than one century. Throughout this time period, we’ve seen little more than tin-pot dictators, marionettes of the occident, whose repression of their respective Muslim population received scarce mention in the American MSM while it occurred. Even if bin Laden had wrongly declared the bloodshed of American civilians permissible, his grievance concerning the west’s support of tyrannical leaders has never been effectively challenged. Of course, this would be nearly impossible, seeing as how it’s 100% accurate.

    It also helps to explain why the immigrants you so revile left those countries in the first place. Chickens coming home to roost, indeed.

    For the record, I’m adamantly opposed to “hate crime” and “hate speech” legislation, including, but not limited to, any endeavor that seeks to undermine the First Amendment of the United States Constitution. To the extent that Muslims support such legislation, I will seek either to persuade them against so doing or oppose them in this respect if need be.

    Your book link isn’t appearing for some reason. As for the infographic, it isn’t intended as an argument for the current state of affairs in South Africa, but rather, to demonstrate that the BDS movement is likely to attain success more rapidly given its current trajectory. Yes, it enjoys more support on the left than it does on the right, but there are plenty of non-partisan westerners who have given it strength as well.

  51. @Just passing through

    This writer, in several posts, offers us the raw sewerage of racism

    His words, in fact, effectively serve Israeli disinformation efforts at establishing the worthlessness of the Palestinians, while pretending to be concerned with other matters.

    The writer supposedly only cares about “subversion of the West” – high-sounding claptrap, that – by Israeli interests.

    The Palestinians? Untermenschen, not worth thinking about.

    Their children? Cockroaches. And they throw stones.

    My God, this is some of worst gutter stuff I’ve seen.

    • Agree: Pheasant
  52. Thank you for mentioning the persecution of Sikhs in 1984 in Punjab and elsewhere. Many many Sikhs were massacred at the Golden Temple in Amritsar in 1984. By Hindus, not Muslims.

    I hate the fact that religion, including Christianity (I am a believer on Christ), has committed such heinous crimes throughout history. Hindu vs. Muslim, but Muslim vs. Muslim, Christian vs. Christian vs.Christian (Catholic vs. Protestant and Catholic vs. Orthodox), Buddhist vs. Buddhist even, and yes, Jew vs. Jew (secular or reform vs. hard core Talmudists like ultra Orthodox Chabad Lubavitch, as well as Zionist Orthodox vs. anti-Zionist Orthodox such as Nuturei Karta) or Jew vs. Christian (Noahide) and Jew vs. Muslim (esp. Palestinians).

    But let’s not also forget the crimes of atheists (esp. Communists) against Christians and Muslims and Jews and any other deity-believing people under the guise of “humanism” or “rationalism.”

    Memo to atheists: show me you can create something out of nothing and maybe I’ll believe your BS about how the universes were created. And where did the organisms that “created” everything come from? The “flying spaghetti monster”? Not that “creationism” is scientific… And where is the empirical evidence man comes from ape? Or were you around “4 million years ago”?

    Rational? Right, like the square root of two!

    • Replies: @Meena
  53. @Fran800

    As for rescuing Christians from Pakistan, I agree, but I know for a fact that Canada has taken in several stuck in Thailand (a non-asylum nation) and they will eventually find their way here to the US if they choose. Several ministries/churches/pastors I know about are trying as hard as they can (esp. with limited finances–these aren’t prosperity gospel billionaire folks I’m talking about…).

    As long as religions dominated by man-made doctrines rule the religion-world, this apostasy is going to happen. Christ, not religion.

  54. @John Chuckman

    I would sooner free Europe from Jewish domination than I would free Palestine. People like Orban have shown it is possible to be both pro-Israel and anti-globalism. At the end of the day, nobody really cares about Palestinians

  55. Hindu extremism enjoys quite a legacy in India:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_against_Muslims_in_India

    Lest we forget, Hindus have targeted Christians as well:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_Staines

    According to Open Doors, Modi has made India less safe for Christians:

    https://www.christianpost.com/news/hindu-extremists-attack-70-christians-traveling-home-from-conference-on-praying-for-peace-in-india.html

    India is ranked No. 10 on Open Doors USA’s 2020 World Watch List of countries where it is most difficult to be a Christian. The country was ranked No. 31 in 2013, but its position has worsened since Prime Minister Narendra Modi and his Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party rose to power in 2014.

    This, of course, doesn’t excuse any variety of extremism, but it’s nice to keep things in perspective while our resident zionazis go about their business as per usual.

  56. Meena says:
    @Omegabooks

    Yes,you are absolutely correct . Most religions have committed all sorts of diabolical crimes against other religions. They have committed crimes against their own co religionist throughout the centuries .
    But losing faith in democracy just because of the corruption of it by Bish Cheney Blair Neocons gangs makes no sense ,so does losing faith in religion .

    India is the only place where Hindus constitute overwhelming percentage of the population who interact often aggressively with sizable portion of visible poor and often denigrated minorities . Nepal is only made of Hindus . So Hindus are not going to commit crimes against other religions in Africa or EU or in Arab or S E Asia. Hindus try to hide behind the fact that the muslims everywhere are killing each other and also non muslims and India is no different . But that’s a lie and impractical proposition ( RSS often suck up to Israel saying “India never persecuted the Jews “ Yes I get that Its also a fact no man was ever persecuted in the moon for nay belief be cause there is no man. Jews were not persecuted in Mongolia and China also same reason like Indian- No Jews no zionism.

    . Hindius used to kill each other ( state vs state ) before muslim had come and also before British had established pan Indian empire after 1858.

  57. @John Chuckman

    The writer supposedly only cares about “subversion of the West” – high-sounding claptrap, that – by Israeli interests.

    I have no problem acknowledging that there are such goyim. Where their focus is inordinately upon Muslims, however, it’s safe to say they’re working in tandem with the usual suspects.

    The “Jordan = Palestine” lie is a dead giveaway. Nobody but a zionazi peddles that sort of flagrant rubbish.

    • Replies: @Just passing through
  58. Meena says:
    @Anonymous

    eanwhile the Jamia students detained by the police for protesting against the CAA are regarded as “political prisoners” by their supporters.

    The protests against the CAA are continuing, and each day brings new revelations about what happened during the disturbances at Jamia and Delhi’s other well-known left-leaning university, the Jawaharlal Nehru University (JNU).

    The Times of India reports that 4 CCTV clips taken from the Jamia university library indicate that some Hindu-supremacist Jamia students, past and present, were with the thugs from outside campus who invaded Jamia on 15th December last year.

    There had been news reports previously that the police simply stood around while students were beaten-up by the mob. The Washington Post reports that some cops joined in the attacks on students.

    The Times of India article mentioned above also says that the CCTV clips show some policemen smashing CCTV cameras, presumably in a complicitous attempt to thwart the identification of rioters for later criminal charges.

    Everyone I spoke with from Jamia (and JNU, see below) said it was clear the police were accomplices of the thugs on both campuses.

    [MORE]

    As mentioned, an attack by rightwing goons took place at JNU last month. Though the rioters at JNU were masked, some were recognized as members of a Hindu-nationalist student organization, the Akhil Bharatiya Vidya Parishad (ABVP), which is the youth wing of the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS).

    The RSS has been around for a relatively long time—it was founded 94 years ago by fervent admirers of Mussolini.

    Gandhi’s assassin was an RSS member, and the flavour of Modi’s politics is conveyed by the fact that he began attending meetings of the RSS when he was 8 years old (1958), and has been a member of it for 43 years.

    A gleichschaltung is taking place in Modi’s India.

    The above-mentioned Washington Post article says that the Indian corporate media, with profit margins in mind, has fallen in line with the BJP, and sacked or sidelined those journalists who are critical of the BJP and its policies.

    I had dinner with a Delhi-based fellow CounterPuncher. Our conversation focused on Indian politics, and touched on the CAA, due to come before the Indian Supreme Court, and Article 370 of the Indian constitution, conferring a special status to Jammu and Kashmir, which the BJP government had abrogated, and is also due to come before the Supreme Court.

    My friend told me that Modi had tilted the Supreme Court towards the BJP. As if to prove him right, a couple of days after our dinner there was a media report in which Supreme Court Justice Arun Mishra, speaking at a conference, called Modi an “internationally acclaimed visionary” and a “versatile genius, who thinks globally and acts locally”.

    Not even US Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh would go in for such colossal arse-licking and describe Trump in these terms!

    Academics who are BJP stooges are being made heads of universities, and given the task of making life wretched for their leftwing colleagues.

    I met a professor at the conference who has taken out 3 lawsuits against the head (Vice-Chancellor) of his university. He’s just won the first case, and is fairly confident the other two will go his way.

    Towards the end of 2019 the JNU administration attempted to turn the screws on Romila Thapar, professor emerita of Ancient Indian History at JNU, and doyenne of Indian historians, by asking her for a copy of her curriculum vitae (CV), to review her status as professor emerita.

    The university authorities justified the move on the bogus grounds of changes in JNU’s rules and regulations regarding the continuation of a professor emeritus after turning 75.

    This is a cock-and-bull rationale.

    The title “Emeritus/Emerita” is bestowed for life on scholars of sufficient accomplishment upon retirement. It is purely honorary, carries no stipend, is for achievement up to the point of retirement, and so is beyond review after being conferred (unless hitherto unknown facts establishing the gross moral turpitude of the awardee come to light after their retirement, and so forth).

    (I speak as an emeritus at my American university.)

    In 2003 Thapar was appointed to the US Library of Congress’s Kluge Chair. Her appointment was opposed in an online petition containing more than 2,000 signatures, on the grounds that she was a “Marxist and anti-Hindu”, and that it was a “waste of US money” to support a leftist. The Library of Congress ignored the petition, and Thapar became its Kluge Professor.

    As in the US, the teaching of history in India is a frontline for rightwingers, religious bigots, and racial and ethnic supremacists, as they seek to alter the content of textbooks to reflect their warped view of the past.

    Professor Thapar has not minced words by in effect telling her Hindu chauvinist critics to crawl back under their rocks, hence their antipathy towards her.

    The Hindustan Times had a piece on the head of Visva Bharati University, Kolkata, Vice-Chancellor Bidyut Chakrabarty, who caused controversy when he described Congress Party supporters wearing Nehruvian white caps ”as the country’s biggest thieves”. A video clip has also emerged of Chakrabarty questioning protesters about their opposition to the CAA. The man is clearly doing everything the BJP requires of a university head

    Modi is foisting a version of neoliberalism on India in the name of “development”, one which has benefitted the country’s plutocracy, but done little for its working-class economically.

    Modi has provided the large Hindu majority with a Muslim enemy, thereby concealing his failure to deal with the abject poverty afflicting hundreds of millions of Indians— despite revising the definition of poverty to exclude those making 26 rupees/US 36 cents or more a day, 400 million Indians live below the poverty line.

    Ordinary men and women are being instigated to blame Muslims and left-wingers for their economic predicament, while Modi and his crew of scoundrels are let off the hook.

    Little wonder Trump and Modi, authoritarians both, get along like a house on fire.

    The day Trump arrived in Delhi there were disturbances between pro- and anti-CAA protesters, involving stone-throwing, buildings being torched, stick-wielding police charges and the use of tear gas. Four people have been killed so far, including a police constable.

    The Trump-Modi love fest will float tranquilly above the fray.

    Trump’s visit will conclude with a state banquet, and it will be interesting to see what will be on the menu. Trump’s staple is the beefburger, and the BJP has been playing “beef politics” since it cam to power in 2014 by fostering an anti-beef ideology.

    In some cases Hindu vigilante mobs have lynched people accused of eating beef, including a tragic case in 2015 in which a Muslim man was lynched for eating what turned out to be mutton.

    Part of the animus against Romila Thapar comes from her research which shows that beef eating was common in ancient India.

    So will Modi, the anti-beef-eating ideologue, feed Trump his beef customary beef burger?

    Join the debate on Facebook
    More articles by:Kenneth Surin

    Kenneth Surin teaches at Duke University, North Carolina.  He lives in Blacksburg, Virginia.

    https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/02/27/trump-in-modis-india/

  59. @AnonStarter

    And you are one of those people who wish to worm their way into the rising tide of White identity politics by trying to make it out as if Muslims and Whites have some common goal and that we should all be caring about the plight of the poor Palestinians.

    The answer is no, I and many others will use Palestinians as a battering ram against Western liberal Jews who promote mass migration of people like you while advocating for more funds to Israel to build a wall. People like myself admire Israel for what it has done to preserve its ethnic identity by excluding low-IQ elements from society, elements which would undoubtedly turn tha patch of land into another South Africa.

    When people like me complain about the plight of the Palestinians, it is not to encourage Israel to give away its identity to yet another group of Muslims, but to shake Whites into seeing that such measures are normal and should be emulated.

    At the end of the day, it is only trendy university types and/or Muslims who care about Palestinians. To everyone else, they are just another group of people facing oppression like hundreds of other groups around the world, there is nothing inherently worse about their victimhood.

    [Palestinains try for the 6 millionth time to expel the nuclear armed Zionists with their chimpouts, although nothing significant materialises, another Palestinian child is shot in the face, allowing Western leftists to cry about it]

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  60. Meena says:

    The glaring omission by the media of the expected observation that was not observed in India by Indian Hindu party and government was this fact- this riot ,anti Muslim riot was taking place while a foreign dignitary was visiting India. Thus is unprecedented . The possibility of passive approval by Trump can’t be excluded . His anti muslim attitude is not lost on RSS-Modi . Trump wanted to secure some deals . India couldn’t do much beyond buying defense and asking for H1 .

    The killings of muslims by intention and not by accident as the speech of BJP leader proved was not going to upend anything since US was not coming out against the riot was not lost on Indian RSS gang. Modi knew that the killings would bolster the confidence and trust in the BJP . That ideologically driven muslim killing machine generates thousands more vote every time muslims are killed and then are blamed for their own deaths.

  61. melpol says:

    Violent mobs have become extinct in the US, they have been replaced by rent a mob. For 3oo bucks a rioter can be purchased they will carry a sign and howl in protest. Hindu mobs are easier to purchase, they can be bought for a little ganja.There are members of the Kali cult who will kill for the love of Killing. They are banned from US entrance.

  62. Ko says:
    @KA

    Which is why Hindus know what their dealing with. Islam is chaos.

    Odd that Muslims mighrants and refugees are unwanted in Muslim nations. They all migrate toward non-muslim nations – because the infidels live there and they seek only to sow chaos and create new muslim nations. Mainland SEA and India aren’t going to let it happen to them as it is in Europe and USA.

  63. @Ko

    Muslim refugees do not migrate to Muslim nations because the latter understand that ‘Muslim’ is not a monolithic identity and that there are internal fault lines relating to sect, ethnicity and culture. The Muslim countries are fully awate of impulisive and highly clannish behaviour caused by inbreeding by way of first-cousin marriages amongst Muslims.

  64. Meena says:
    @Ko

    Oh yes! Thats why 3 and 4 millions from Afghanistan live in Pakistan and Iran . Thats why Turkey hosts 4 millions Syrians in Turkey and Jordan has been hosting around 2 millions . Even Sudan has allowed those fleeing from S Sudan violence Their number range in hundreds of thousands .

    • Replies: @Ko
  65. AaronB says:

    I read about this.

    While India undoubtedly has a problem with its restive Muslim population, violence against them should be discouraged and deplored.

    India has an obvious right to define itself as a Hindu state, just as Pakistan and Bangladesh define themselves as Muslim states. That India must be a pluralistic state while its Muslim neighbors can unabashedly define themselves as Muslim is a regrettable instance of Muslim narcissism, similar to the demand that Israel share control of Jerusalem while refusing to share control of Muslim holy sites.

    The Muslim community in India should have the self-awareness to realize this and accept it – that they are rioting about it, does not make Muslims look good.

    At the same time, a Hindu state can treat its Muslims fairly and honestly, and make provision for them in a good faith manner. Violence against the Muslim community is disgraceful.

  66. @Just passing through

    And you are one of those people who wish to worm their way into the rising tide of White identity politics by trying to make it out as if Muslims and Whites have some common goal and that we should all be caring about the plight of the poor Palestinians.

    Why would I “wish to worm [my] way into the rising tide of White identity politics”? I have no need to become part of a movement that differs little from zionism.

    I’ve asked white identitarians repeatedly about their platform and I’ve never seen a single pragmatic, intellectually compelling response to the question. None of you will ever come close to bearing the influence of a religious denomination because, unlike Jews, you don’t possess the requisite heritage, patience, or discipline for it. (Note that intellect has little to do with it.) Given the history of ethnic conflict and bloodshed among people of European extraction, it would constitute a major miracle to accomplish such unification, and it certainly won’t happen without a religious foundation, upon which not a single one of you can agree.

    It’s true that ethnicity provides a common bond around which birds of a feather may flock together, but “whiteness” is a poor substitute for genuine ethnicity (e.g. British, Italian, etc.), and as an ideological platform, it sorely lacks any similitude of historical precedent.

    who promote mass migration of people like you

    I’m American, born and raised, buddy. Obviously, you don’t bother to read what I write, and if you do, you’re woefully short on comprehension skills.

    People like myself admire Israel for what it has done to preserve its ethnic identity by excluding low-IQ elements from society

    How fascinating that for all the vaunted intelligence of Israel, it finds itself confronting the quandary of an ever-expanding Haredi population that not only vehemently resists conscription — upon which Israel depends desperately for its survival — but comprises a unbearable tax burden. It would appear that this particular element of long-term planning has eluded the intellect of your beloved pharisees:

    https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/haredi-demographics-and-the-democratic-point-of-no-return/

    The current coalition between the right and Haredim is unsustainable economically. We can’t afford it. Well before the Haredim are 25% of the population in 2065 the economy and democracy will be unsustainable and our military strength and superiority will decline. If modern Israel is to survive for a thousand years it must maintain its economic and military superiority. That requires addressing the Haredi issue now. …

    The rapidly growing Haredi population puts an even greater tax burden on increasingly fewer tax payers. Israel already has one of the smallest number of tax payers paying 90% of all Income Tax. Anyone earning more than around NIS 18,000 ($5,000) per month is part of the top 20% of income earners paying 92% of all income taxes collected by the Government. This is highly unfair and the demographics suggest it will get worse. The current system is economically unsustainable.

    When people like me complain about the plight of the Palestinians, it is not to encourage Israel to give away its identity to yet another group of Muslims, but to shake Whites into seeing that such measures are normal and should be emulated.

    Right. You’re a zionist. We get it.

    To everyone else, they are just another group of people facing oppression like hundreds of other groups around the world, there is nothing inherently worse about their victimhood.

    What a convenient irrelevancy.

    Nobody’s qualifying their oppression as “inherently worse” than others’. The Palestinian issue is about American support for Israeli tyranny. We sanction other nations or penalize them for far less serious offenses, but nurture Israel in its despotism, and Saudi Arabia would be another Afghanistan if the House of Saud weren’t so firmly in bed with Israel.

    Lost upon you golems is the fact that zionists are, in one sense, rather analogous to those immigrants you so detest, the notable difference being that most of those immigrants inhabit your country legally. Jews had inhabited the Holy Land peacefully and freely for centuries before the late 19th Century, when the first wave of European migrants began arriving. The entire zionist project was launched with the intent to remove Arabs indigenous to Palestine from the Promised Land. That you attempt to invert the historical truth and posit the opposite would be amusing were it not so utterly pathetic.

    But that’s okay. Your thumbs up for zionism merely strips your own argument against Muslim migration of all its validity, as you provide Muslims with a bulletproof rationale for doing to the west what zionists did to Palestine, especially if they — unlike zionists — do it under the auspices of the law.

    Palestinains try for the 6 millionth time to expel the nuclear armed Zionists

    Unlike white identitarians, many of them actually have the guts to lay their lives on the line for their cause, their materiel weakness notwithstanding.

    Which is why they’ll be still be standing at the end of the day, long after you and your ilk have been consigned to the proverbial dustbin of history.

    • Replies: @atlantis_dweller
  67. Smith says:

    Muslims should go back to muslim countries.

    Get out now.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
    , @anon
  68. @Smith

    Muslims should go back to muslim countries.

    “Go back”? I was born and raised in America, pal.

    And I’m not going anywhere.

  69. anon[112] • Disclaimer says:
    @Smith

    Who the are you ?

    Why don’t you go back somewhere ?

    Do us a favor , take Gorka, the carpetbagger ( or a scoundrel ) with you . I hate his accent .I don’t know why Trump doesn’t mock his English . It’s worse than Modi’s , but that’s not the reason of his expulsion. He is a knuckle head .

  70. @Ko

    Odd that Muslims mighrants and refugees are unwanted in Muslim nations.

    Not so odd, however, that you demonstrate such a miserable lack of knowledge.

    Had you bothered with the facts, you would have learned that countries such as Turkey, Lebanon, and Jordan absorbed the bulk of Syrian refugees. Egypt and Iraq have also absorbed a considerable number of them, cumulatively far more than western nations combined:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugees_of_the_Syrian_Civil_War

    So much for the facts, eh? We now return to your regularly scheduled ignorance, already in progress …

  71. @Just passing through

    More of the standard Bollocks from yourself that is easily refuted.

    The Child Abuse Cover Up – A Police Whistleblower Speaks.
    In a courageous and explosive audio interview with UK Column “Despatches from the Front”, a Metropolitan Police Detective Constable child protection specialist, takes the lid off the scale of child abuse, trafficking and prostitution in London and UK.

    [MORE]

    He exposes the lies, threats and intimidation used by the police, Local Authorities, Social Services, Politicians, Charities and others to protect Establishment figures and Westminster.

    This criminal conspiracy seeks to deceive the public and stop the truth emerging in every possible way.

    Young children taken from care, stolen, picked up on the street, groomed for sex, drugged, sickened with serious disease, or dying in the gutter are shown to be the worthless play things of powerful people – the same people who run Britain, and the very authorities supposedly protecting families, society and the weak and vulnerable.

    John’s courage deserves that everyone listening to his testimony circulates it and demands action.

    A Britain run by those who protect child abusers and murders is shown to be the sickening reality, but a far more dangerous future lurks beneath the surface as this criminal British State, unchecked, grabs yet more power over families and children by the day.

    https://www.ukcolumn.org/video/child-abuse-cover-police-whistleblower-speaks

    Child Abuse – The Deafening Silence Of A Cover Up.
    Good Samaritan – The Brave Man Who Tried To Protect White Youngsters.

    This man was victimised for protecting WHITE youngsters from WHITE abusers. Operation Bullfinch ignored the evidence.

    The UK Column has written several major articles, over many months, exposing vicious sexual and physical abuse at Oxford and Cherwell Valley College (OCVC).

    Threatening legal action against the UK Column within hours of publishing our first report, OCVC managers shied away when faced with the knowledge that multiple victims were coming forward to tell their stories and provide evidence. There is no doubt abusers worked at the college.

    Student victims identify a common thread to the nature of abuses, and the failure of the College management to deal with the perpetrators. Worse, some victims were warned off or bullied into silence, by the very college staff who should have protected them.

    A cover-up by Child Safeguarding in Oxford is now hiding the nature and scale of that abuse, the multiple abusers, and the fact that individuals named as abusers, are still employed by OCVC.

    More recently student victims alerted the UK Column to one brave member of OCVC staff that had tried to protect them and bring their abusers to justice. More corroborating student statements about this man followed. Secretly photographed by an under-cover reporter from this paper, shortly after leaving a mosque in Buckinghamshire, he is shown on our front page and in the photo on this page. For his own safety, we cannot name him.

    There can be no doubt that he is a good Samaritan. He is of Asian origin and the youngsters he repeatedly tried to protect are white, and included white females that were being sexually abused. Some had made complaints of the fear of being raped. The abusers, identified by students as white, are still at large. Some abusers are also accused by students of being racist, and their foul abuse was vented on our good samaritan. Students stated that the language used by the abusers was not just racist and concerning religious hatred, but were, in fact, comments that were highly inflammatory.

    This man deserves our utmost respect and support for his actions, and those actions highlight a key question: since Thames Valley Police TVP under Chief Constable Sara Thornton, have recently rounded up Asian paedophiles in Oxford under Operation Bullfinch, and her team were made aware of the OCVC abuses years ago, just why have the police and Oxfordshire Child Safeguarding Board ignored the evidence of multiple students, including their written statements praising and supporting our OCVC samaritan? Was key evidence and information with-held by top managers at OCVC, or could there be a political agenda to protect white abusers connected with OCVC?

    https://www.ukcolumn.org/article/child-abuse-deafening-silence-cover

    • Agree: AnonStarter
  72. RodW says:
    @AnonStarter

    So did Israel somehow incite Ayatollah Khomeini to issue a fatwa against Salman Rushdie and thereby rile up most of Britain against Muslims?

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  73. @RodW

    Of course not.

    Muslims who know their religion are aware of prophecy that foretells of a time in which “the knowledge will be taken up (as in ‘removed’) from the Arabs.” First, prophethood; after this, caliphate; afterward, rapacious monarchy; and following this, tyrannical kingdom, wherein the knowledge will be lost. Some interpret this as a time that is yet to come, but the precise mathematics of Arabic make that impossible, since the word for “after” is thumma, which implies “immediately following.” As such, we know that this time occurred during the reign of the Abbasids. It already happened and it’s been nothing but terminal collapse ever since, all appearances to the contrary.

    Another haddith attributed to the Prophet sallALLAHU ‘alaihi wa sallam tells us that his people will follow those who came before them (Jews and Christians) to such an extent that, “were they to enter the hole of a gecko, they would pursue them.” This refers first to the corruption that beset Israel insofar as their own deviation from The Torah is concerned, and second, to Christians, who erred in their perception of Jesus ‘alaihis-salaam, one advanced invariably by Temple Israel.

    That corruption is evident to this day in the codification — if not implementation — of capital punishment for married adulterers and apostates, laws that have precedent in The Torah, but not The Qur’an. It’s how imperatives for assassination applicable exclusively to a theater of war in which the very survival of the nascent Muslim polity was threatened with extinction were made analogous to the kind of mandate upon which Khomeini acted.

    You raise a valid point, of course. I’ve often considered the possibility that westerners concerned about this issue would be wise to “own” Islam as originally given to the Prophet, one that introduced the world to federalism and provided the first divine fiat for religious pluralism:

    http://www.oxfordislamicstudies.com/Public/focus/essay1009_jefferson.html

    In so doing, the west could more effectively forestall any effort to subvert the legal protection of religious liberty (which also applies to atheists and agnostics), providing explicit and irrefutable Islamic precedent to support their representation of the religion.

    Just thinking aloud, of course. I’m not anticipating that anybody here is actually paying attention to what I write …

    • Replies: @RodW
  74. @AaronB

    I would once again reiterate that Muslims in India have not at all been persecuted. History shows that after partition Muslim population has doubled in India. India has had Muslim President and Vice President. The most popular film Industry is ruled by Khan clan. Indian cricket team has had a Muslim captain. The present cricket team has a Muslim player
    Indian police force has a history of many Muslims who have graced top posts of administration. The present Modi Government has many Muslims in his cabinet. Even RSS has Muslims. Just a couple of days back Maharashtra government has decided to pass a legislation of reserving 5% seats for Muslims. Let me tell you that Muslims in India are safest compared to anywhere in the world. Washington Post and Western Media is biased against RSS and Narendra Modi. And yes, India has every right to protect Hindus from riot mongering Muslims because India is and will remain Hindu Rashtra. There is only one Hindu nation of in the world and that is India except Nepal which is very tiny country. If Muslims feel that they are being treated in a harsh way and being persecuted, they are free to go to Muslim majority countries like Pakistan, Afghanistan, Bangladesh and many other countries as there are 58 Muslim countries in the world. It is their choice. If they want to stay in India, they have to be civic and behave in a civilised manner.

  75. Hail says: • Website
    @MBlanc46

    True, but remember Europe is not under threat of conquest/absorption/indundation by Hindus, but by Muslims. (And Africans, many of whom are also Muslims.)

    Generic “Muslim Victimization propaganda” is against our interests; it becomes our problem quick when anti-European thugs like Erdogan ship these poor-victimized-Muslim-innocents to Europe, dump them on us. Demographic war.

  76. Renoman says:

    So you found out that people don’t like Muslims, what a shock. What exactly is there to like? Where is the positive side in having Muslim neighbors? Even the Muslim Countries don’t want them.

  77. nymom says:
    @Curmudgeon

    Exactly couldn’t have said it better myself.

    Muslims in predominantly muslim countries constantly murder Christians and people of other faiths. Bangladesh muslims, a year or so ago, murdered a guy who was an atheist because they didn’t like what he posted on his blog.

    This was a simple common sense measure put in place by India extending citizenship ONLY to people who emigrated due to a real fear of persecution…not trying to illegally enter another country for economic or social benefits…

    Bravo to the Indians for standing up for what is right and not bowing to political correctness.

  78. @Curmudgeon

    “Zero evidence”! Exactly!

  79. RodW says:
    @AnonStarter

    That’s all very well in its way no doubt — you say gecko’s arse, we generally say rat’s arse these days. Once Britons have overcome their shame at being called racist for liking their own culture as much you obviously like your own, these pettifogging issues that you raise will become irrelevant, inshallah. People will give more of a rat’s arse about the racial component of their culture than the Christian component about which they don’t really give a gecko’s arse, except as built heritage.

    You’re in America so I won’t presume to speak for what might happen there regarding whites, but in Britain, we have a good basis for a default setting to which we might return if the will can be found.

    • Replies: @BDS Always
    , @AnonStarter
  80. @AnonStarter

    You are right that “white identitarians” lack that Jewish stamina, and genuine faith in their own race. And you are right that, among other things, that is due to the fact that there is not “one white identity”, not at all.

    • Thanks: AnonStarter
  81. @AnonStarter

    The Muslim Brotherhood is a political organization, allegedly formed by British intelligence. Sectarian violence is not the same as religious persecution. In Northern Ireland, the “Troubles” were between two Christian groups, but played out through political groups like the IRA and UDV.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  82. Here’s hoping they wipe out every last Muslim. And swiftly.

    • Replies: @Meena
  83. Ko says:
    @Meena

    You’re tlaking about refugees fleeing conflict who would otherwise remain in their country of prigin. I’m talking about willful migrants. If you read this, and understand the proselytising aspect of Islam that seeks to ovetake the world, destory indiginious culture and whole societies to make Arabic and Islam the only race/culture/society on earth. (you may be familiar with the term Evanglilical?)

    https://www.al-islam.org/a-code-of-practice-for-muslims-in-the-west-ayatullah-sistani/migration-non-muslim-countries#introduction

    General Rules

    Based on these and other similar ahadith, and other religious proofs, the jurists (mujtahidin) have issued the following rulings:

    [MORE]

    1. It is recommended for a believer to travel to non-Muslim countries for the purpose of spreading the religion [of Islam] and its teaching, provided that he can safeguard himself and his young children against the dangers of loss of the faith. The Prophet said to Imam ‘Ali, “If Allah guides a person from among His servants through you, then that is better than everything between the east and the west on which the sun shines.”7 When asked by a person for a counsel, he said, “I advise you not to associate anything with Allah…and to call the people to Islam. You should know that [the reward] for you for each person who answers [your call] is [equal to] emancipating a slave from the children of [Prophet] Ya’qûb.”8 (See the question-answer section below.)

    2. A believer is allowed to travel to non-Muslim countries provided that he is sure or has confidence that the journey would not have a negative impact on his faith and the faith of those who are related to him.

    3. Similarly, a believer is allowed to reside in non-Muslim countries provided that his residing there does not become a hurdle in the fulfilling of his religious obligations towards himself and his family presently as well as in future. (See the question-answer section below.)

    4. It is haram to travel to non-Muslim countries in the East or the West if that journey causes loss of the faith of a Muslim, no matter whether the purpose of that journey is tourism, business, education, or residence of a temporary or permanent nature, etc. (See the question-answer section below.)

    5. If the wife strongly feels or is sure that her travelling with the husband [to a non-Muslim country] will result in loss of faith, it is haram for her to travel with him.

    6. If the baligh9 boys or girls strongly feel that their journey [to the non-Muslim country] with their father or mother or friends will cause loss of faith, it is haram for them to travel with those people.

    7. What do the jurists mean when they speak of, “loss of faith”? It means either committing a forbidden act by indulging in minor or major sins like drinking intoxicant, adultery, eating forbidden meat, or drinking najis (impure) drinks, etc. It also means abandoning the fulfillment of a compulsory act like neglecting salat, fasting, hajj and other obligations.

    8. If circumstances force a Muslim to migrate to a non-Muslim country with the knowledge that the migration will cause loss of faith (e.g., a person seeks political asylum in a non-Muslim country in order to save his life), it is permissible for him to make that journey to the extent that it saves his life, and not more than that. (See the question-answer section below.)

    9. If an immigrant Muslim, residing in a non-Muslim country, knows that his stay in that country will lead to loss of faith or of that of his children, it is wajib on him to return to one of the Muslim countries. (See the questions at the end of this section.) As mentioned above, this loss of faith is realized by neglecting the obligatory acts or by committing sins.

    10. The obligation to return to a Muslim country applies only if it does not lead to death [for example, for a political opponent who has fled his own country], or to putting him in untenable situation or, to an emergency situation where religious obligations are suspended (e.g., the necessity of preserving life which allows a person to eat haram meat in order to prevent his own death from starvation).

    11. If the journey is haram for a person, then his journey will be considered “a journey of sin;” and, in such cases, he loses the benefit of the concession of praying (qasr) in four -rak’at salat and also the benefit of not fasting during the month of Ramadhan. As long as his journey maintains the status of “sin,” he cannot benefit from such concessions provided by the shari’a for travellers.

    12. A son is not allowed to disobey his parents when they forbid him from travelling, if their refusal to give permission is out of their concern for the son, or if his journey will cause distress to them because of his separation from them – provided that he does not suffer loss by not travelling.

    13. It is permissible to approach the competent authorities [like police and the justice system in a non-Muslim country] for various important issues -like prevention of harm befalling the person, the honour and the property of a Muslim- provided that it is the only way for exacting one’s right and preventing injustice.
    Questions and Answers

    • Agree: SBaker
    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  84. @RodW

    “for liking their own culture”

    What is their own Culture?

    Another question that I have asked for an answer to “They don’t follow our way” never gets an answer.
    What is our way?

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  85. @RodW

    you say gecko’s arse, we generally say rat’s arse these days

    [laughing]

    Alright, I’ll take the blame for the loss in translation. The “hole” referenced isn’t the gecko’s anus, but rather, the entrance to its dwelling.

    I appreciate your drawing a distinction between America and Britain, which really needs to be done more often in these conversations.

    in Britain, we have a good basis for a default setting to which we might return if the will can be found

    What is that “default setting” and how feasible is attainment of it?

    • Replies: @RodW
  86. @Curmudgeon

    The Muslim Brotherhood is a political organization, allegedly formed by British intelligence.

    I often wonder where you guys are getting this stuff from …

    The Muslim Brotherhood began as a grass-roots religious organization, focused primarily upon social welfare programs, educational reform, and economic enfranchisement. You’ll find a fairly decent summary of its political motivations here:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Muslim_Brotherhood_in_Egypt_(1928%E2%80%9338)

    In the case of Egypt, we’re not looking at “sectarian violence,” we’re observing its subordination to western influence, which has been a problem there for over a century now.

    The other examples I cite also cannot be blithely dismissed as “sectarian violence,” since we’re speaking of minority groups suffering for their religious conviction at the hands of acting state administrators, which is the textbook definition of religious persecution.

  87. @BDS Always

    What is our way?

    The same question I’ve asked repeatedly.

    Judging by this thread, the “way” appears to be nothing more than “wipe out all the Muslims” or “keep Muslims out.” There doesn’t appear to be much else.

    “Anti-” anything isn’t a foundation upon which to construct a society. Surely, there has to be something worth holding onto other than a personal grudge.

    Shame that nobody can tell us what that is.

    • Agree: BDS Always
    • Replies: @RodW
  88. RodW says:
    @AnonStarter

    To be honest, I thought it was unlikely that a Muslim would have the curiosity to look at something so small as a gecko’s anus.

    The default setting would be Britain with a racial population similar to pre-Cromwellian times, with no groups of sullen Jews, Indians, and Africans. There would always be a certain ‘diversity’ as traders come and go.

    As for feasibility, it’s getting harder with every passing day, but the pressure to achieve it is also growing with every passing day, as more people start imagining it. That was one of the drivers behind Brexit of course. There’s still a lot of ‘anti racism’ in Britain, but when you challenge the egalitarian dogma with kind logic, the anti racists fall silent because they have no ground.

    Hopefully it can be achieved by buying them off. Presumably these ex-Britons will be welcomed with open arms anywhere else in the world, but especially their original home countries, for their high education and diverse outlook.

  89. RodW says:
    @AnonStarter

    Your and BDS Always’ notion of a society based on ‘anti’ is nothing but reductio ad absurdum.

    A group of five or six Britons sitting in a pub quaffing ale could easily come up with a very detailed blueprint for their culture.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  90. @Ko

    If you read this, and understand the proselytising aspect of Islam that seeks to ovetake (sic) the world, destory (sic) indiginious (sic) culture and whole societies to make Arabic and Islam the only race/culture/society on earth.

    There’s nothing in that reading from which this might be understood.

    I disagree with the notion of proselytizing, which really is a latter-age influence of Christianity upon the Muslim world. As dar al-Islam expanded, the religious and cultural practices of indigenous non-Muslim peoples remained largely intact. Yes, there were natives who embraced Islam, sometimes en masse and certainly of their own volition, but this was not due to any type of missionary activity; rather, such folk were often persuaded by the egalitarian manner in which Muslims administered themselves and others beneath the aegis of their rule.

    Our “proselytizing” — if one wishes to call it that — lies in the nature of our disposition. We have to become the invitation. Now if others wish to understand where we’re coming from, then we have an obligation to edify them. If they want it for themselves, the obligation is greater.

    But no, Islam isn’t zionism. It doesn’t demand your fealty.

    • Replies: @RodW
    , @Escher
  91. @RodW

    Your and BDS Always’ notion of a society based on ‘anti’ is nothing but reductio ad absurdum.

    As is the anti-Islam rhetoric here at UR.

    But to be fair, I didn’t define your society that way. I’m merely hoping to elicit some kind of discussion about what the contributors to this thread perceive as a superior alternative to the current religious plurality of western nation-states.

    Thus far, neither you nor anyone else has shown me anything different than “keep them out” or “wipe them out.”

    A group of five or six Britons sitting in a pub quaffing ale could easily come up with a very detailed blueprint for their culture.

    So you say, but at UR, we surely have more than half a dozen more-or-less sober Britons bandying about a lot of bitter rhetoric against darkie interlopers, but nothing resembling this storied blueprint of which you speak.

    Even an outline would suffice at this point.

  92. @Grahamsno(G64)

    Hey… Why don’t you change your religion from Hindu to Muslim if you so much hate Hindutva? You mean all technosavvy people are found only in TN, Karnataka, Andhra and Kerala? BARC was a brainchild of a Parsee, mind well.

    • Replies: @Grahamsno(G64)
  93. RodW says:
    @AnonStarter

    Most of us know what our own culture is about and we simply can’t be bothered to explain it to you at your demand.

    I’ve seen your proselytising both in England and Japan. You come among the natives with your ridiculous, arbitrary taboos on certain foodstuffs that the natives enjoy without any ill effect and make the natives uncomfortable with your presence. Out of politeness and tolerance, the natives may show some grudging curiosity about your perverse taboos. Just to make conversation really, since you never have anything else of interest to talk about.

    Whereupon your eyes light up and you regale us with the superiority of your ridiculous ways. We’re then left with the choice of ignoring you, or telling you to go away. We can easily ignore you when there aren’t too many of you, but your proselytism by your brilliant example becomes intensely irritating when you appear in our midst in groups. We see through the method—it’s perfectly transparent. Perhaps you think there’s something clever about it.

    I hope you’ll accept my experience of your culture in lieu of an explanation of my culture (although you might glean some hints about that from my comments).

  94. Anon[171] • Disclaimer says:

    Blond, Tall, with Honey-Colored Eyes: Jewish Ownership of Slaves in the Ottoman Empire

    https://archive.org/details/JewishOwnershipOfSlavicWhiteSlavesInTheOttomanEmpire
    https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10835-006-9018-z

    Hundreds of Hebrew written sources, dozens of official decrees, judicial records (sijillat), and reports of European travelers indicate that slaveholding – particularly of females of Slavic origin – in Jewish households in the urban centers of the Ottoman Empire was widespread from the sixteenth to the nineteenth centuries

    Slavery and slaveholding has been among the most outstanding aspects of life in the various and varying Muslim societies over the centuries. As is reported by hundreds of Hebrew sources, dozens of official ordinances, documents produced by the Shari’a courts, and the reports of European travelers, slaveholding was also common among Jews in Muslim lands. The ownership of women, in particular, was widespread in Jewish households in the Ottoman Empire on the threshold of the modern era. It was certainly far more common than in Jewish communities in North Africa or Europe.

    … The documents concern female slaves almost exclusively; I found only one case concerning a male. Slavery thus seems to have been limited to those who would provide household services of the kind exclusively performed by women, including sexual ones. This helps explain why nearly all the slaves were white females, principally of Slavic origin captured during Ottoman campaigns, or by their Tatar collaborators in Eastern Europe, with only a few of other provenance – Circassian, Caucasian, Hungarian, and Austrian.

  95. @RodW

    Never fails. Every time I ask the question, you guys always have a ready excuse for deflection.

    What’s that you were saying earlier about reductio ad absurdum?

    Most folks who have actual familiarity with Muslims and Islam — as opposed to anecdotal evidence — know that, in general, we’re not proselytizing. So you ran into some folks a little too enthusiastic about their religion for your blood. Understood. Personally, I have no problem with JWs or Mormons. I could probably talk religion with them until the cows come home, but that’s just me. It’s obvious you’re not that type of guy. I don’t blame you.

    The only hints I’ve gleaned from your comments thus far is that you, like many here, would rather denigrate Islam than explain your own culture, which really isn’t characteristic of anything that could be honestly defined as “culture,” unless, of course, you’re suggesting that you don’t actually possess it, which is also quite possible.

    • Replies: @Anon
  96. @AnonStarter

    Yes, Britain has no culture, thankfully the immigrants came and gave us culture.

    I wonder if Pakistanis would tolerate White British Christians being 5% of their population, engaging in terror attacks against the majority and demanding special rights and complaining about the term ‘Islamic Republic of Pakistan’ as the term is not inclusive enough? Would their anger subside once the Christians asked them ‘what is Pakistani culture?’

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  97. @RodW

    “Most of us know what our own culture is about and we simply can’t be bothered to explain it to you at your demand.”

    So tell us then what it is instead of deflecting and giving us a Bollocks answer. And who is “We?”

    Sure that some on here would be more than happy to learn a bit more about British Culture including Morris Dancing, celebrating the annual Summer Solstice at Stonehenge, Tea and Crumpets etc.

  98. @Satish Bendigiri

    Hey… Why don’t you change your religion from Hindu to Muslim

    Did you even comprehend my post cretin, I said that I am an atheist/agnostic …and that I can’t stand Islam because of its fanaticism.

    You mean all technosavvy people are found only in TN, Karnataka, Andhra and Kerala?

    I never said that I implied that most of the people in the nuclear, space, missile and tech programs are from the south, there’s a reason that the tech hub is in Banglore not Lucknow.

    • Replies: @Satish Bendigiri
  99. @BDS Always

    What is Palestinian culture?

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  100. RodW says:
    @BDS Always

    Morris Dancing is our approximation of the way that the Moors dance. Hence the name. Dances that fall under the category also include elements of pre-Christian, pagan symbolism. Interestingly, Japanese Shinto and rural England have very similar dances involving people dressed as deer. Perhaps the name ‘Moorish dance’ is disguise for traditional paganism in the face of disapproval from zealots of the alien ME Christian religion.

    • Replies: @BDS Always
  101. @Grahamsno(G64)

    Well, that’s the beauty of Hinduism. You can abuse it, criticize it, call it fake on any platform you wish and still remain as a Hindu. No compulsion of chanting Gayatri mantra, you can be atheist even by being a Hindu. Being Hindu you have a freedom to abuse and call name about Hindu religion and publicly say that you hate it. Just criticize Muslim religion. Muslims will never criticize their own religion but they are scot free to abuse Hindu, Hindutva in any which way they want. Understand the difference man. If Hindus are so bad why do you need them as CEO s of Google and Microsoft? or in silicon valley? Wherever Hindus have gone in the world, they have worked hard and helped the economy of that country grow by their contribution and zero nuisance value. They have never invaded and usurped any country right from Vedic period. I would suggest you to read Slavery, Terrorism and Islam by Peter Hammond. Perhaps it will change your viewpoint.

    • Replies: @BDS Always
  102. @Just Passing Through

    Yes, Britain has no culture, thankfully the immigrants came and gave us culture.

    More deflection.

    Why are you blokes so angry at me? I’m neither Pakistani, nor am I defending any criminal acts or requests for special treatment. I’m simply asking you guys about what you have to offer in terms of an alternative to the current British culture that legally protects religious and cultural pluralism.

    Your reply is about as relevant to my question as would be my talking about Britain’s role in the American coalition that served Israel’s interests in creating a hell on earth for Muslims in Iraq and Syria (among other places). Since you reference “terror attacks against the majority,” it seems only proper to keep things in perspective, no?

    • Replies: @Anon
  103. @RodW

    So you know how to use Google then?

    Still, like all the others that waffle the Bollocks about “Our Way, Our Culture”, you have not answered the question that I asked you?

  104. @Just passing through

    Palestine had been home to Jews, Christians, and Muslims, among others, for well over one millennium before WWI and the twentieth century British Mandate. For that period of time, it was characterized largely by inter-religious comity, as the right of non-Muslim minorities to religious liberty was an essential feature of the Islamic suzerainty that held sway over it.

    Commencing with the large-scale immigration of European Jews at the onset of the twentieth century, Palestine’s long-standing ethos of tolerance began to erode as the ambition of zionists to displace the indigenous inhabitants became more evident. As a consequence of said aggression, Palestinian Arabs felt compelled to protect their own interests by organizing resistance to the fledgling zionists.

    In spite of tremendous setbacks, they have continued their resistance in one way, shape, or form to the present day. While zionists have eradicated the Holy Land that was, Palestinian Muslims still safeguard the rights of indigenous Christians among them:

    https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/gazas-christians-and-muslims-grow-closer-defiance-israeli-attacks

    Not so hard now, was it?

    • Replies: @Anon
  105. I’m simply asking you guys about what you have to offer in terms of an alternative to the current British culture that legally protects religious and cultural pluralism.

    You are trying so hard but failing.

    First you start with your sophistry regarding there never being any such thing as ‘British culture’, then when you are called out on it, you chnage your tune and make it seem like all you were asking all along was ‘what is the alternative to current British culture’. You know full well freedom of speech has been curtailed severely since the ’60s in the UK and during that time you could say things about race and not wanting certain races or religions in your country. British culture was not yet politcally correct and people had this common understanding of what it means to be British, just like Japanese currently know what it means to be Japanese. There was none of your gaslighting about there being no real British culture, everyone knew what it was.

    Racial foreigners and should be repatriated to a country that will take them, Muslims should get the priority for this. The British National Party was going to pay £50,000 per head to 180,000 non-White people a year to leave the country permanently. Britain could be achieve the status quo ante-1948 within 40 years, that is to say Britain being ethnically pure once again.

    Life for Muslims needs to be made as uncomfortable as possible to encourage them to leave, halal and kosher should be banned and they should fine those who wear burkas heavily.

    This is hardly rocket science, Islam is the brush Jews use to sweep Europe of its Whites, they need to be removed at all costs.

    Your reply is about as relevant to my question as would be my talking about Britain’s role in the American coalition that served Israel’s interests in creating a hell on earth for Muslims in Iraq and Syria (among other places). Since you reference “terror attacks against the majority,” it seems only proper to keep things in perspective, no?

    This is just leftists style non-sequitur, we bombed their countries so we have to take every single person in. How about we stop bombing their countries and start shooting refugees who try and invade Europe? And while we are on the topic, Western forces must have killed a few thousand people at worse, the main casualties came because of standard Muslim chimpouts, as soon as Hussein and other strongmen were gone, the Muslims started massacring eachother. So much for Muslim unity.

    • Agree: RodW
    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  106. Tel Lie vied 911 EvangeLIED working along with Zio cow worshipping Hindu Terrorists to bring about the Anti-Christ Dajjal to rule the world by hook or by crook.

    • Replies: @BDS Always
  107. Anon[276] • Disclaimer says:
    @AnonStarter

    Most folks who have actual familiarity with Muslims and Islam — as opposed to anecdotal evidence — know that, in general, we’re not proselytizing.

    You just forcefully over ran lands that were formerly ours and will one day be again: Anatolia, Iran, and Northern Africa.

    You just forcefully convert or oppress after a certain tipping point of population, and in the past forcefully field circumsized or enslaved us. Today, you just behead our soldiers in our own streets.

    Your apocalyptic ideal is enough for us to reject you, in fact. Moreover, you haven’t made an argument, convincing or otherwise, as to why we are required to tolerate you in our lands at all.

    So you ran into some folks a little too enthusiastic about their religion for your blood. Understood.

    Our history with you goes well beyond that, which is something that you will also understand in the future if not already. Why do you think we act against you? Oil? If that is what you think, then you are naive.

    Personally, I have no problem with JWs or Mormons.

    It is irrelevant what you do or do not have a problem with.

    I could probably talk religion with them until the cows come home, but that’s just me.

    What someone who follows a 7th century AD dumbed-down version of Judaism has to say about religion is as worthwhile as listening to a child talk about music who’s largest accomplishment is playing chopsticks in the lower school recital. The best of Islam is what little of Zorastrianism you imported into Esoteric Shi’ism, but what most of the rest of Islam bites at their Jewish bit to cleanse away.

    The only hints I’ve gleaned from your comments thus far is that you, like many here, would rather denigrate Islam than explain your own culture,

    Other than the results of our general civilization that you are begging to remain a part of or otherwise be included in, a desire which is its own evidence and answer to your question, we aren’t required to pass shit tests from aggressive Jewish golem camel fuckers in order to justify why we dislike you and don’t want you in proximity to us.

    which really isn’t characteristic of anything that could be honestly defined as “culture,” unless, of course, you’re suggesting that you don’t actually possess it, which is also quite possible.

    Did you have another false hoop to jump through, or did you simply wish to continue to repeat any other unconvincing anti-White taunts or denigrations that you gleaned off of the last kike that you read?

    In sum, no one is required to explain Christian culture, Europe, or the sum of the greater West minus its subversives in order to exclude those who want in. Our results and your desire are your answer. In fact, your monkey-kind’s desire to be near to us is so great that you may as well place us as a surrogate for your god, against our will of course.

    You are better off being silent and hoping that we don’t notice you, but the Jews and your heavy low IQ contingent will always be politically or physically violent and otherwise desiring of White women enough to assure that will never be the case.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  108. Anon[252] • Disclaimer says:
    @AnonStarter

    Palestinian Muslims still safeguard the rights of indigenous Christians among them

    Islam has a long history of enslaving Christians. Consider us not convinced and eager to show you to what degree. Have fun with it.

    Perhaps you can find salvation in abandoning your dumbed-down Judaism and becoming Christian (which is anti-Judaism). My money is that you will go down enslaved by your Judaism-on-horseback.

    • Replies: @Meena
  109. @Just Passing Through

    First you start with your sophistry regarding there never being any such thing as ‘British culture’

    Never said any such thing. Clearly, your anger has affected your comprehension skills.

    you chnage (sic) your tune and make it seem like all you were asking all along was ‘what is the alternative to current British culture’.

    Incorrect. That’s actually what I wanted to know all along.

    You know full well freedom of speech has been curtailed severely since the ’60s in the UK and during that time you could say things about race and not wanting certain races or religions in your country.

    Actually, I didn’t know this, but I appreciate the information. Found this WP page on “Hate Speech laws in the UK,” which provides further detail:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_laws_in_the_United_Kingdom

    Looks as though there have been some pretty ludicrous cases brought to court thus far. I can certainly understand why you’d object to this. Personally, I’m glad I live in America.

    The British National Party was going to pay £50,000 per head to 180,000 non-White people a year to leave the country permanently. Britain could be achieve the status quo ante-1948 within 40 years, that is to say Britain being ethnically pure once again.

    And obviously this didn’t happen because not enough Britons were on board with it, right?

    Life for Muslims needs to be made as uncomfortable as possible to encourage them to leave, halal and kosher should be banned and they should fine those who wear burkas heavily.

    Why? How do halal and kosher adversely affect you? How does a woman who wants be judged for her character rather than her sexuality bother you?

    This is hardly rocket science

    Right.

    Islam is the brush Jews use to sweep Europe of its Whites, they need to be removed at all costs.

    The anti-Islam brigades are stuffed to the gills with zionists. You’re referring to the opinion of Rabbi Efrati, who represents the opposite extreme. Agitation from both extremes is intended to foment conflict between the west and Muslims.

    Only one who consigns himself to the false left-right political dichotomy would fail to appreciate this.

    This is just leftists style non-sequitur

    No, it’s just throwing your irrelevancy back at you. You call it “leftist” because you’ve been conditioned to embrace the false left-right dichotomy endemic to your society. I won’t join you in that narrow box, thank you very much.

    Western forces must have killed a few thousand people at worse

    According to Iraq Body Count, the American coalition was responsible for the majority of casualties, and IBC have been accused of underestimating total casualties. But more to the point …

    None of it would have occurred were it not for America and Britain’s obsequious fealty to Israel, the nation for whom you hold such swooning admiration.

    With culture like this, who needs barbarity?

  110. Anon[304] • Disclaimer says:
    @AnonStarter

    I’m simply asking you guys about what you have to offer in terms of an alternative to the current British culture that legally protects religious and cultural pluralism.

    There is no defensible mandate to protect pluralism. In fact, both Judaism and Islam make strong arguments against pluralism in their deformation of religion into imperial political strategies.

    In short, we have enough issues defending against Jews who at least are of some political use. The last thing that we need are brown Jews-but-worse in the form of Islam. There is no benefit to us. It is literally all pain. Be happy with your own women in your own lands and pray five times per day that we don’t take them from you by force and in total. Otherwise you will certainly reap that result.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  111. @Anon

    camel fuckers … kike … your monkey-kind

    Ah, yes. There it is in all of its resplendent glory:

    “Culture.”

    • Replies: @Anon
  112. @Anon

    In fact, both Judaism and Islam make strong arguments against pluralism in their deformation of religion into imperial political strategies.

    Your statement fails to consider the important distinction between the personal practice of a Muslim and that of a Muslim entrusted with administration over the affairs of non-Muslims.

    Where Islamic suzerainty existed, it did not compel non-Muslims to embrace Islam. That’s established, irrefutable historical fact. Furthermore, prior to the arrival of Islam therein, Europe enjoyed nothing resembling religious liberty or pluralism. Islam effectively introduced this novelty to the Iberian Peninsula.

    Thanks for the rape and death threats, but I’m an American, born, raised, and current resident.

    Oh, and just in case you’re curious, the population of Muslim Americans is only increasing. We’ll outstrip Jewish Americans in another generation:

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/by-2040-muslims-predicted-to-outnumber-jews-in-the-us/

    Good times!

  113. Anon[213] • Disclaimer says:
    @AnonStarter

    So you say, but at UR, we surely have more than half a dozen more-or-less sober Britons bandying about a lot of bitter rhetoric against darkie interlopers, but nothing resembling this storied blueprint of which you speak.

    Even an outline would suffice at this point.

    A bad faith demand, typical of kikes and other monkeys who always have a self-interested genocidal agenda to attempt to cover for.

    In fact, kikes love to make the discussion of such culture to be taboo before asking such a question. What a mass of intellectual faggots (cowards) that group is.

    Brown uppity bedouins aren’t close to being worthy of a response to this question.

    You people shit in holes in the ground before we passed out tech to you and when you can bother to install it today,

    and your sole unique possession is an OCD religion that is perfectly tailored by Jews for non-Whites. Tailored in its emphasis on routine, literalism, strict rules required to keep your hormonally amped sexual impulses in check, and zealotry (harnessed to serve Jews). All serving as the bulk sum of your “culture”.

    But to shut you up and teach you that wisdom is coming to the conclusion that you only know that you don’t know (which is something that our children tend to learn in young adulthood):

    Our culture has become so ingrained throughout the modern world, simply because it is so superior and successful, that the rest of the lower IQ world practically sees it as their own software if not their own hardware at this point. As can be seen whenever we vacate an area in physical presence if not in all communication forms, that perception is false.

    Our culture includes our detailed system of manners and mannerisms that literally define what it is to be civilized, our vast repository of arts dating back thousands of years (painting, sculpture, dancing, equestrian, sports, poetry, cuisine, etc) (much of which you came into possession of upon your locust like invasions of Central and Western Asia and Spain), our religious practices (both pre-Christian and Christian), our education system and most of its content, our traditional family life practices, our traditional moral systems that underlie the high function of our societies (until we became too pluralistic and the function started to decline), our development of hygienic practices that we passed to you barbarians (that you still have trouble with), our myths, and our development of literally all of the technology that defines civilization tech to this day (from the wheel to satellites and everything in between). All of that and all of the disciplines needed to develop it is our culture, you dumb monkey.

    But no people has to justify their desire for continued existence in “culture” to anyone else.

    What the kikes-on-horseback want to do is equivocate away the results of two millenia of
    Christendom that they desperately don’t want to be excluded from and which was on turn built on the civilizations and racial results of what came before it. In favor of OCD praying and brute force imperialism and slavery that they pat themselves on the backs for.

    It doesn’t matter what we do or don’t do. What we all know is how desperately you want to be in proximity to us, and will try to aggressively rationalize to us any reason for that to continue. Which will have the opposite effect that is intended.

    No one is advised to answer the questions of your enemies, whose primary aim is to equivocate in response to any answer. The harm that they wish to do you through that question better invalidates their culture and existence than the question promises to validate yours.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  114. Anon[216] • Disclaimer says:
    @AnonStarter

    camel fuckers … kike … your monkey-kind

    Ah, yes. There it is in all of its resplendent glory:

    “Culture.”

    Just calling it like everyone in the civilized world actually sees it, monk.

    But keep trying to poorly ape what passes for English manners and better writing (over using embarrassing adjectives), as a content free response. Its funny. Primarily because our system of manners and social hierarchy is more complex than monkeys like yourself are led to believe. Which keeps you in the gutter where you reside. You sound like a nigger trying to pass as upper class.

    Last: see my prior response to your chimp challenge, Bubbles.

    • Thanks: AnonStarter
  115. @Anon

    Wow. I had no idea such a simple question would ignite the fury of so many Anons. Looks like I struck a nerve.

    Well, at least you’ve attempted an answer …

    Our culture has become so ingrained throughout the modern world, simply because it is so superior and successful, that the rest of the lower IQ world practically sees it as their own software if not their own hardware at this point.

    That’s a cute theory, but it ignores the reality of European colonialism, replete with the subjugation of indigenous peoples, as well as the history of post-colonial western hegemony. Continued assimilation of western influences after gaining nominal independence isn’t really proof of inherent western superiority so much as it is a matter of practicality and political expediency. (A comprehensive cultural recrudescence would have been impossible after so many years of colonial assimilation, which also included sink-or-swim adaptation to imposed technological advances.) Where erstwhile vassals as nation-states had attempted to divest themselves of western political influence, concerted efforts were made to suppress such moves toward autonomy.

    The litany of such examples is too long to cite here, but we could look at that of Egypt, for starters. The Muslim Brotherhood was highly popular among Egyptians in its infancy, a highly influential grass-roots movement that not only enfranchised low-income citizens but acted as a bulwark against deleterious British influence. Concerned about the consequences of its ascendancy, Britain threw its weight behind a political leadership that effectively suppressed it, and the west continues this policy to date.

    If you consider this an example of your culture’s “superiority,” have at it. Calling those who know better “low IQ” merely tells us who you are.

    Our culture includes our detailed system of manners and mannerisms that literally define what it is to be civilized

    Uh huh.

    And, of course, this is evinced in the manner of your dialogue, replete with ill-mannered rhetoric that would make a drunk sailor blush.

    our vast repository of arts dating back thousands of years (painting, sculpture, dancing, equestrian, sports, poetry, cuisine, etc)

    No problem with this, but aesthetic taste is always subjective. I much prefer Iskender Kebabi to bean-and-kidney pie, though I don’t begrudge others a preference for the latter.

    Everyone is entitled to claim his taste is superior, and most do. I’ve seen quite a few westerners here decrying popular sports as a contemporary circensus et panem, something intended to distract the masses and prodigally expend their energy in order to prevent effective political activism. Cinema and television often appear to fall into the same category.

    Your mention of Spain is curious, since Muslims were responsible for introducing dozens of new crops to the Iberian Peninsula, as well as significant agricultural advances, not to mention the introduction of novel culinary dishes, etiquite, hairstyles, and music — see this article about “Ziryab” if you doubt it. Many Spanish terms used to this day are borrowed directly from Arabic as a consequence of Islamic cultural influence.

    And this just scratches the surface of what Muslims introduced to Europe.

    our religious practices (both pre-Christian and Christian)

    European commerce didn’t flourish so well under the aegis of the Church, since it proscribed any variety of profit-making as usurious. Muslims were integral in altering the economic landscape of Europe, as their religion did not impose such onerous restrictions. Eugene Heck’s Charlemagne, Muhammad, and the Arab Roots of Capitalism provides extensive details about this, though it’s cost prohibitive, so you should try to procure a copy through an inter-library loan.

    As for religious liberty in Europe, it didn’t exist, whether imperial rule was pagan or Christian. The Church never allowed it before Muslims showed up. In fact, the Northern Crusades were rather renowed for their uncompromising subjugation of pagan populations.

    our education system and most of its content

    Indeed, it became quite impressive after Muslims had already established their own universities.

    Independent of formal universities, Muslim scientists were making quantum advances in their respective fields while Europe languished far behind them. Universal literacy was encouraged in the Muslim world; not so much in early medieval Europe beyond the confines of clerical institutions.

    our traditional family life practices

    There’s much to be commended about that tradition, to be certain, but today’s Europe is not what it once was. Matriarchs have abandoned the home and taken to the streets, formerly the dominion of men; this phenomenon has done less to enfranchise women than it has to corrupt the natural familial hierarchy, where women serve to raise children and maintain the sanctity of the home.

    The current state of affairs is simply not sustainable as a means of providing for the future welfare of the European family.

    our development of hygienic practices that we passed to you barbarians

    Fragranced, hard toilet soap was originally innovated in the Muslim world and exported to Europe. Muslims were using a natural toothbrush from the Salvadora persica tree long before Europeans had used anything remotely similar. Regular cleansing of the face, nose, hands, forearms, neck and feet is a religious ritual in Islam, as is the prophetic counsel, “Cleanliness is from faith.”

    You really haven’t the slightest clue what you’re talking about. Perhaps you think that the use of dry toilet paper is somehow preferable to the use of a bidet, but most of us who have tried both methods of cleaning can attest to the superiority of the latter. I shouldn’t have to explain how you’ll never be able to come fully clean with dry paper alone.

    our myths

    There’s only one that’s effectively survived, and even that one is obviously borrowed from the pre-Christian pagan cultures of Egypt, Mesopotamia and beyond. I’m not sure whom you’re trying to fool.

    our development of literally all of the technology that defines civilization tech to this day

    I give credit where it’s due, and I acknowledge the western contribution to technological advancement. It’s undeniable, of course, but it wouldn’t have been so had it not been for the accomplishments of Muslim scientists that laid the groundwork for it.

    (Incidentally, Europeans didn’t invent the wheel.)

    But no people has to justify their desire for continued existence in “culture” to anyone else.

    True, but I wasn’t asking anyone for a justification. Go back and read what I wrote again in case it confused you the first time around.

    What we all know is how desperately you want to be in proximity to us, and will try to aggressively rationalize to us any reason for that to continue.

    If what you knew were water, it wouldn’t fill a thimble.

    I’m an indigenous American and I have no interest in proximity to you and your ilk beyond my correspondence with you here. You’re more than welcome to the apoplectic rage and ignorance which is the hallmark of your particular subculture — one that, unsurprisingly, remains on the fringes of larger western society.

    I live in the belly of the beast and have a pretty good view of its demise. Not sure what it is you’re seeking to preserve, but your own disposition won’t do a thing to keep it from collapsing beneath the weight of its own corruption.

    Enjoy it while it lasts.

  116. @Satish Bendigiri

    Still talking utter Bollocks which so easily refuted.

    Islam and tolerance towards other religions.
    https://themuslimvibe.com/featured/are-muslims-supposed-to-be-religiously-tolerant

    • Replies: @Satish Bendigiri
  117. American Santa Claus Christians supports Hindu Terrorists because they both have the same agenda.

    Ever wonder why so many Christians support America’s many wars, especially in the Middle East? A new Christianity has emerged from the 20th century called Christian Zionism, or what could be called “Angry Evangelicalism” or “Dispensationalism on Steroids.”

    What motivates a nationally known, evangelical preacher like John Hagee to call for a preemptive strike against Iran when it is contrary to what Jesus taught and commanded his followers to do? This “Roots of Zionism” presentation may be the first of its kind with a factual explanation of how Christianity’s latest apostate epidemic was launched with the publishing of C. I. Scofield’s reference Bible in 1909, and the influence of the notes in it.

    https://www.winterwatch.net/2016/11/the-roots-of-christian-zionism-the-scofield-bible-apostasy/

    • Replies: @Meena
  118. wildbeard says:

    Due to the teachings of the Koran, wherever there is a sizable Islamic minority there will be Islamic terrorism. Why should governments be forced to accept this as a matter of freedom of religion?

    People in the west need to wake up and smell the coffee before it is too late.

  119. Meena says:
    @Mother Theresa

    According to available estimates,the Chinese and Indian share of global manufacturing output , which was still 54% in 1800 , had fallen to 5% by 1900.

    BJP RSS says Muslim rules destroyed India

    • Replies: @KA
    , @Satish Bendigiri
  120. Meena says:
    @Kamel Jockey

    They are servants of the rapist , drug dealers , petty criminals with IQ around 80 . They read Left Behind .

    They call them followers of Jeusus . But they follow the torturers of Jesus.

  121. Meena says:
    @Anon

    That’s what Christians used to be told by pope and by civil administrator – King . So that they could kill Muslim in Philliones , Niger,Nigeria, Indonesia .

    It was 15 th century version of Bush – Cheney – Neocons war on terrorism .

  122. Nuncle says:

    The first paragraph of this article is total garbage. For those wanting to learn the truth about ‘Kristallnacht,’ the only serious study is by German revisionist Ingrid Weckert. I believe that Weckert actually was sent to prison by the German state for having the audacity to show that the official fable is a load of bull.

    Free download here:

    https://www.pdfdrive.com/the-bizarre-story-of-kristallnacht-e189887713.html

  123. KA says:
    @Meena

    Interestingly
    Ship building was flourishing in India in 17 and 18 th century

    British tried to harm it by first imposing speacial taxes on all goods imported on India -built ships to British isle.
    Later they prohibited any India built ship bringing cargo to any parts of Britain.

    This is same Britain who was ruling waves nad crossing the Atlantic and venturing into Pacific .

    It was the cheap dirty lives and poor future and poverty at home that drove Europe to sail in dingy in search of loot amd slaves . They were hungry and poorly clothed. They killled everything and looted every thing they came across .

    Indian was doing well and they didn’t have engage into perilous illegal journey . Indian lived a better life .
    Their well meaning welcoming of these people led to destruction of India and China .

  124. @BDS Always

    Recommending you following books.

    Slavery, Terrorism and Islam by Peter Hammond.

    Islamophobia and the Politics of Empire by Deepa Kumar.

    A Wonder that was India by A L Basham

    Hope you will change your perception after reading the above.

    Thank you.

    • Replies: @SBaker
  125. @Meena

    Wait a minute…by 1800 Mughal had almost driven out of power by Marathas and the new thugs emerged to loot India were British. They not only overpowered Mughal but Marathas also and started plundering India in any which way they wanted. First it were Muslims who looted India and carried everything to Ghazni by Mohammad Gazni and Ghori. Then they had an audacity to stay here in India and enjoy the richness by killing, raping, looting and what not. Bahadurshah Zafar was raised to ashes by British and then British started a systematic annexure of whole of Indian states one by one carrying to England Kohinoor diamond and Bhavani Sword of Shivaji Maharaj in the process. Thus Muslim and British both reduced India to poverty.

    • Replies: @ka
    , @Meena
    , @Barr
    , @anon
    , @Malla
  126. @AaronB

    ‘I read about this.

    While India undoubtedly has a problem with its restive Muslim population, violence against them should be discouraged and deplored.
    India has an obvious right to define itself as a Hindu state…’

    I’ve read about it, too — and watched the videos, and read the posts.

    Scraping off the layer of hypocritical slime you deposited, you’re on the side of the Hindu lynch mobs and police. Certainly you sympathize with them.

    There’s a morbid irony here. If we take on faith the tales of Eastern European Jews of oppression in the pogroms inflicted on them by the Christian peasantry, the Tsarist state, etc, guess which side that puts you on?

    Aaron! You little Cossack, you!

    Have you betrayed everything, or can you still lay claim to anything worth having?

  127. Anonymous[174] • Disclaimer says:

    Israel has been murdering Muslims for decades and very few non-Muslims care about it. Muslims are hated in most places, often scapegoated by the Jewish media for obvious reasons. Countries get away with mass murder and Apartheid policies against Muslims because even most leftists hate Muslims.

    Apartheid South Africa was toppled because white leftists quite like blacks, but Apartheid policies against Muslims are still going strong the world over because even leftists hate Muslims. It’s also not just Muslims who are targeted by Hindu nationalists, Christians have also been subjected to Hindu violence.

  128. Anonymous[174] • Disclaimer says:

    The way anti-Muslim sentiment is being encouraged around the world seems like an agenda to promote open borders and race mixing. Anti-Muslim sentiment is big in Britain, so much so that even right wingers don’t care about mass immigration of non-Muslim Africans, Hindus, Sikhs, Chinese, etc, just so long as they aren’t Muslim.

    It’s a clever strategy to promote a raceless world, they have turned the world into Muslim vs non-Muslim. That’s how many people see the world nowadays, that any form of immigration and race mixing is “Kosher” just so long as it doesn’t involve Muslims. Nationalism is no longer about defending one’s race and culture, it’s about keeping Muslims out.

    • Replies: @Anon
  129. Anonymous[294] • Disclaimer says:
    @RodW

    Hindus and Sikhs have an arbitrary ban on beef and Jews on pork (among other things) but I don’t see British people complaining about that, only about Muslims and pork. There’s also probably more Hindus and Sikhs in Britain than Muslims so if any industry is likely to be affected it’ll be the beef one.

    A certain type of British person is just brainwashed to hate Muslims, Muslim food restrictions, like those of other religions, have no direct effect on native British people but they just complain about Muslims and pork because they despise them.

    • Replies: @RodW
  130. Where has RodW gone?

    I was still waiting for his answer to the question I asked when I was having my usual Tea and Crumpets this morning.

    • Replies: @RodW
  131. Next these Hindu thugs, actually Hindu Terrorists, will come to McDonalds and behead all beef eater’s. There goes your Beef!

    Once you allow idol worshipper’s to take hold like the way Santa Claus Christian Terrorists did in the West, they will bring you their God Less Shari’ah, basically Satanic Shari’ah were Anti-Christ Dajjal will be your Lord.

    They will make you kill innocent people, loot what belongs to other’s, and destroy justice wherever they go. What their brethren has done in Palestine is what they will do to you next.

    911 was a Fraudster perpetrated by these Hidu Terrorist’s brethren in the Holy Land. Holy wood Bolly wood, magicians are at play to Sodomize the entire world. This war on Terror is actually a War on Islam. They want to implement their Satanic Shari’ah, where a man can marry another man and get a marriage certificate and where they can Usurpt the rights of other’s with their creation of fake money.

    https://www.winterwatch.net/2017/12/the-war-on-islam-9-11-revisited-uncovered-exposed/

  132. ka says:
    @Satish Bendigiri

    Let me understand this- either you are saying that the statistics are wrong or you are saying despite the rapes, wars, killings, destruction of Indian peninsula the developments continued unabated . You have already said that these destruction continued for centuries . Am I correct ? How did India manage to progress at same level of that of China during these periods ? China was not ruled by some rapist muslim rulers . But then may be a country can function perfectly fine despite widespread killings ,rape, looting like Congo does now or Honduras or Haiti or Brazil or post WW! Germany do or did.
    May be India should have functioned a lot better despite absence of those pillage and looting for over 70 years . Only we hear Ambani and Adani and some N .Modi are looting and stashing the money abroad but there are other . None of them are muslim . These Ambani ,Adani and Modi also teach Hindus that muslims had ben looting and carrying loots away out of India for centuries. The difference between these 2 types of looting is that Indian share of current trade is minuscule and it’s free people are poor . Its education sucks and its health is represented by open toilet . It has no technology to offer to the world compared to what it did in that past . So what it does? It says India invented plastic surgery- look at Ganesh . It says nuclear formula was found by Indian scientist and E= MC squared was established by Indian Hindu scientists in Vedic period Hindus also invented airplanes .

    Its people go out and vote more for BJP every time one more muslim is killed or raped or expelled from his or her house.

    Marthas also started looting and plundering But because of the existing structures built by Muslims over the years . The change did not disrupt the system, it only changed the rulers .

    Rest of your arguments make not sense and has no legal basis.

    Let me state this – this rape killings destruction and pillage by RSS-BJP will not go unpunished .

  133. Meena says:
    @Satish Bendigiri

    I understand where your arguments are coming from . Its from the decades long attempt to portray muslim rules in negative light and to accuse current muslim citizen of being the culprits for India’s poverty ,overpopulation ,violence,and being obstacles for progress . RSS has got rid of scholars in universities and archeology department . It has attacked historians . It has manufactured term like psuedo-secularist . It refers tom Ashoka Ghandhi and diversity of opinions and beliefs . But it hates Ashoka and Ghadhi . It wants one opinion in faith practices and and observance .

    It has changed the text books . It has erased the existing already compromised account of the Muslim contribution to Indian civilization ( altered and downgraded by British ) and has lowered the bar of hatred much lower by accusing muslim ruler of nonexistent crimes . It has attacked Bolloywood It has attacked cinemas and it has killed journalists . It has organized symposium and conferences geared to the erasure of any Islamic contributions to Indian developments.

  134. Muslims Are Being Murdered in India

    Yes, and …

    Are we supposed to care? Do they care about Europeans mass murdered by Muslims in London, Paris, Berlin, Brussels, Nice, … ?

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
    , @SBaker
  135. Meena says:

    1-“Yet, visiting Ramghat temple that night was not part of his original plan as he set out to install the idol of Lord Rama inside the sixteenth-century mosque

    According to the plan, Paramhans was to arrive at the Hanumangarhi residence of Abhiram Das by 9 pm, after his meal. They were to go together to the Babri Masjid, where another sadhu, Vrindavan Das, was to join them with an idol of Lord Rama.

    Their entry into the Babri mosque had to be before midnight when there would be a change of guard.
    The trio was then supposed to go inside the 16th-century mosque, plant the idol below its central dome and keep the deserted place of worship under their control till the next morning when a larger band of Hindu communalists would pour in for support.

    https://qz.com/india/1745179/how-ram-lalla-appeared-inside-ayodhyas-babri-mosque-in-1949/

    The beginning of the collective violence against muslim was planted by the planting of a statue in 1949! It had to get makeover repeatedly and often with intellectual garbage peddled as Hindu philosophy and tolerance and Hindu history .

  136. Anon[336] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    That’s how many people see the world nowadays, that any form of immigration and race mixing is “Kosher” just so long as it doesn’t involve Muslims. Nationalism is no longer about defending one’s race and culture, it’s about keeping Muslims out.

    None of that is true.

    Muslims are twisting themselves in knots here trying to create false dichotomies to justify their continued incursion into the West.

    “You can be civilized or anti Islam, choose one…”

    “You can keep your race or be anti-Muslim, choose one…”

    “You can oppose Jews or be anti-Muslim, choose one…”

    All of which inspires major LOLs.

    We’ve been at war with Muslims who want to over-run our nations for about 1.3 millenia. Its all pain and no benefit for us, and therefore you have nothing to bargain with.

    How about this:

    You can stay out, with the Jews, and we’ll see improvements in race, civilization, and the suppression of the ultimate and undeniable sources of the vast majority of our chaos.

  137. @Commentator Mike

    Do they care about Europeans mass murdered by Muslims in London, Paris, Berlin, Brussels, Nice, … ?

    Absolutely, since such attacks are not only anathema to Islam, they also provide Europeans with a rationale for further ambivalence toward their own governments’ horrible policies vis a vis the Muslim world.

    The more recent historical subjugation of Muslim lands by colonial empires now posturing as independent nation-states devoid of hegemonic objective merits frequent repetition, since it appears that the only thing the anti-Islam brigades can remember are battles prior to the 16th Century CE.

    What’s the pragmatic difference between the era of colonialism and today when ostensibly “Muslim” countries have to toe the occidental line or suffer the fate of Iraq, Syria, Libya, Egypt, etc.? Have Muslims occupied London, Paris, Berlin and Brussels in exactly the same manner as Britain, France, Germany, or Belgium once had occupied lands other than their own? Do you really want to make a detailed, qualitative comparison between contemporary immigrant Muslims in Europe and colonial overlords in Africa and Asia?

    Which has had the more recent impact: western colonialism on the Muslim world or Islamic suzerainty over Europe?

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  138. Barr says:
    @Satish Bendigiri

    The political role played by temples in consolidating political authority is well known to most scholars of South Asian history. Royal temples housing the state deity often referred to as kuladavata expressed the sovereignty of the king thereby allowing such temples to serve as sites where kingship was created, legitimized and often revitalized. Given this political connection between temple, deity and kings scholars like Richard Davis and Richard Eaton have demonstrated numerous instances of temple desecration seen through early medieval Indian history occurring during times of inter-dynastic conflicts.
    Chalukyas and destroyed their royal temple looting their state deity from their capital. Such actions of destroying royal temples and looting the central deity were carried out with the explicit aim of detaching a vanquished king from the most visible sign of his former legitimacy. Thus, the act of temple desecration was well established within the Indian political rhetoric. During the period of the Turkish conquest, they replicated these political patterns and traditions. Unfortunately, we have not been able to determine the exact number of temples destroyed by the Turkish forces as records left, if any have often not survived. Furthermore, the eagerness of court chroniclers to portray their patrons as ideal Muslim kings often resulted in actions of temple destruction being attributed to kings even
    on epigraphic and literary evidences, Eaton identifies eighty instances of temples desecration spanning over five centuries (1192-1729), most of which were along a moving military frontier carried out by the state to denounce the legitimacy of vanquished local ruling houses. For instance, as the Mughal state annexed new territories, temple desecration accompanied these new conquests as is evident in Assam where the Mughal defeat of the Ahoms was followed by destruction of the chief temples patronized by the Ahom rulers. Such a theoretical understanding of temple desecration does not deny the destruction of temples but places it within a much larger tradition associated with political needs of states, rather than as an ideological weapon for suppressing the Hindus. From Akbar’s period the Mughals saw temples as part of state property and took steps to protect them, renovate them and even patronize them. These policies continued with Aurangzeb who as has been documented earlier patronized temples and their functionaries. A farman from 1659 to officials in Banaras instructed them to protect Hindu temples and their functionaries and prevent any unlawful harassment of them so that they could continue praying for the continuation of the Empire. But the
    While it is true there was no instruction given regarding the general desecration of all temples throughout the empire. The temples that however still faced the wrath of the emperor suffered such a fate primarily because of the close linkages that existe

    https://juniperpublishers.com/gjaa/pdf/GJAA.MS.ID.555686.pdf by Aniket Tathagata Chettry , Assistant Professor Siliguri College WB India 2018

    • Replies: @Satish Bendigiri
  139. anon[220] • Disclaimer says:
    @Satish Bendigiri

    Temple destruction or looting of temple was a well -established patterns in the long history of the feuding Hindu kings before Mughal came and after they had gone .

    “The Sanskrit BRIHATSAMBITA , written perhaps in the 6 th century , warns. , “ If a Shiva Linga , image , or temple breaks apart, moves , sweats, cries, speaks, or otherwise acts with no apparent cause , this warns of the destruction of the king and his territory .” 
Acting on this premise that religious images held political power , Hindu Kings targeted one another’s temples beginning in the 7 th century , regularly looting and defiling images of Durga, Ganesha,Vishnu , and so forth .They also periodically destroyed each other’s temples . Some Hindu Kings  even commissioned Sanskrit poetry to celebrate and memorialize such actions “ in the book
    AURANGZEB
    The life and legacy of India’s most controversial king , by. Audrey Truschke, Assistant Professor of History at Rutgers University

    Even the middle class businessmen used to empty the temple’s treasury as late as 1900 for personal needs ( Economic Times of India ) .

    • Agree: AnonStarter
    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  140. @Barr

    Thanks…Nice Information….

  141. SBaker says:

    A first step in dealing with organized crime is to destroy their meeting and planning establishments. Islam is not a religion.

    • Replies: @anon
  142. SBaker says:
    @Satish Bendigiri

    Islam is organized crime behind a mask of religion.

    • Replies: @Satish Bendigiri
  143. SBaker says:
    @Commentator Mike

    Islam is organized crime. If you are not in the gang and paying for membership, you are an infidel to be murdered. And, if you become Muslim and decide not be live a life in organized crime and wish to leave, you are definitely on the list to be murdered.

  144. @AnonStarter

    Those countries all earned their independence, and shouldn’t they have learned, from their former relationship with their colonial masters, to develop and organise themselves in a such a way to collectively better counter these now neo-colonialist imperialist designs and attacks on them? What did they expect? I know it’s easier said than done but then so is almost everything.

    Of course they don’t care. Even London’s mayor doesn’t care other than that it despoils the image of a city he rules as his little Khanate. He says it’s part and parcel of living in a big city but forgets to mention that it’s part and parcel of importing millions of Muslims. Sure bombing Muslim countries also contributes, especially if you don’t seal your borders during wartime.

    I am absolutely pissed off at the destruction of Iraq, Libya, now Syria, but shouldn’t have all those Muslim countries pulled together, headed by their nuclear power Pakistan, and created their own Coalition to withstand the Western aggression that is surely coming for all of them, one by one? But whatever they do to each other in the subcontinent doesn’t concern me – I’m sure the Hindustanis have their own grievances against the Muslims, and old and newer scores to settle. How would Pakistan like it if tens of millions of Indians turned up there clamouring for passports?

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @AnonStarter
  145. @anon

    Even the middle class businessmen used to empty the temple’s treasury as late as 1900 for personal needs ( Economic Times of India ) .

    Well they all worship the God of Thieves no matter what they claim.

  146. @SBaker

    Precisely. Just four days back militant Taliban signs a deal for peace with the Government of Afghan and US decides to withdraw their troops from Afghanistan and immediately Taliban starts attacking Afghan Defence Force’s checkpoints. That’s how they define peace. US had to conduct air strikes on Taliban forces. Once US withdraws its last batch of soldiers all hell will break loose in Afghanistan and Taliban will bring mass destruction in Afghanistan. They were the one who were accused of providing shelter to Osama bin Laden who attacked World Trade Centre.

  147. anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @SBaker

    Islam is not a religion”

    And you are not a human . .

    A bot.
    Bot votary of defeated scheming and a firm anchor of self generated lies.

    • Replies: @SBaker
  148. SBaker says:
    @Ko

    Muslims are also as corrupt, hateful, bigoted, violent, and murderous as anyone else in earth.””

    In terms of mass murder of soft targets, the Mexican drug cartels pale in comparison to the phony “religion” of Islam. Muslims are the master slavers.

  149. SBaker says:
    @anon

    By your definition, of human, I’m glad I don’t fit/submit to your degenerate standards. Is mass murder of innocent, unarmed people, a standard technique to force submission to you primitive slavers? S. Rushdie, once a Muslim, was revolted and decided to leave the gang. This got him the death sentence for simply being an escaped slave.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Satish Bendigiri
  150. anon[228] • Disclaimer says:
    @SBaker

    Yes you shit head, that’s why Malleshappa Madivalappa Kalburgi, and Gauri Lankesh were killed by BJP. Out of love for truth duty and human development! Ask RSS why they killed them . Ask your RSS why they hounded out of the country this guy- Fida Hussain.
    Its time to ask why Bollywood actors Khan brothers and few other were asked to leave India . Its time to ask why criticizing BJP violence and ethics and M O are crimes.

    • Replies: @SBaker
  151. Talha says:
    @Commentator Mike

    I am absolutely pissed off at the destruction of Iraq, Libya, now Syria, but shouldn’t have all those Muslim countries pulled together, headed by their nuclear power Pakistan, and created their own Coalition to withstand the Western aggression that is surely coming for all of them, one by one?

    Damn right!

    Time for:
    United
    Muslim
    Military
    Alliance

    Look at this, I love it – even some non-Muslim guy named Mike has a better sense on this subject than plenty of Muslims still waving their little flags and killing and dying over the straight-line borders some European guys drew up for them. Until Muslims unite on this front, they will continue to be invaded at will by international coalitions and humiliated time and time again by tiny countries like Israel. And it will totally be our fault for being too stupid to not push for this unity after seeing what keeps happening.

    Peace.

  152. @Commentator Mike

    Those countries all earned their independence

    The very use of the word “earn” suggests a patronizing relationship, one in which independence is granted as a privilege rather than restored as a matter of right, and this privilege has always been conditional. To imagine it was granted unequivocally is simply naive, a fact easily verified by examining the historical record of organized opposition to western hegemonic objectives following said nominal “independence.”

    It’s well known that Britain continued to influence the Egyptian leadership even after independence was declared in 1922. Read John Perry’s “Shifting Sands: The United States, Great Britain, and the Muslim Brotherhood, 1945 – 1954” for further details. Perry also alludes to the CIA’s role in overthrowing the democratically elected government of Syria for its refusal to sanction construction of a Gulf-Mediterranean pipeline.

    and shouldn’t they have learned, from their former relationship with their colonial masters, to develop and organise themselves in a such a way to collectively better counter these now neo-colonialist imperialist designs and attacks on them?

    You’re suggesting that there’s never been any such effort to do so, which simply isn’t so. The “independence” game was rigged from the onset.

    The pattern is obvious: Where a nation-state’s leadership maintains a role subordinate to the western hegemon, every effort is made on behalf of the hegemon to ensure said leadership is protected. This includes undermining dissident factions, even brutally so. Where a country’s leadership does not toe the line, it’s lights out.

    The war continues to this day. Sooner or later, however, the balance will be tipped.

    Of course they don’t care.

    They do more than you imagine. You think Muslims enjoy it when these a-holes get their bomb on? Think again, Mike. Speaking as someone who has presented himself as a Muslim in public, it’s no fun having to deal with it.

    but shouldn’t have all those Muslim countries pulled together, headed by their nuclear power Pakistan, and created their own Coalition to withstand the Western aggression that is surely coming for all of them, one by one?

    India also has nukes. As well as Israel. And Europe. And America. Obviously, you’re not a chess player.

    I’m sure the Hindustanis have their own grievances against the Muslims, and old and newer scores to settle.

    It might interest you to know that India’s first encounter with Islam was not through warfare, but rather, though trade. Very early in the history of Islam, Muslims had established good relations with the natives of the subcontinent, and many of those natives themselves became Muslim. One of the first mosques outside the Arabian Peninsula was in India. Furthermore, the first conflict that occurred between Muslims and Hindus was a consequence of Hindu piracy and kidnapping of Muslim women — a fact curiously omitted from the labor of our resident Hindutva apologists.

    How would Pakistan like it if tens of millions of Indians turned up there clamouring for passports?

    India doesn’t have a problem with immigrants and it said so explicity.

    It just has a problem with Muslims, even if they’re native and don’t have papers to prove it, much like a large swathe of the native population. Only Muslims, however, face deportation for lack of documentation.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  153. @Talha

    Talha,

    Thanks. But I’ve always thought like that and not because of any particular affection for Muslims. It’s just that right is right and wrong is wrong no matter who is doing it to whom and I never agreed with wars on the Arabs. However, I am not fond of Muslims and don’t want them spreading into white countries either by whatever means. Quite strange that although whites are quite individualistic they can still organise all these disparate nations that have had their own conflicts for centuries to work together against Muslims in wars, yet the Muslims who tend to be clannish cannot organise to jointly defend themselves from this military aggression. On the other hand, the whites aren’t doing too well at defending themselves in their own countries either from a different type of aggression by the state and the immigrants. But of course when talking about both white and muslim countries there are the rulers and the ruled. So it seems the rulers of white countries are united against Muslims in war and against their own peoples at home, while the Muslim rulers, well … I guess you know better about them. And then there’s the Jews of course in this mix.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
    , @Talha
  154. I hope that the non-whites can set an example for whites.

    Obviously the Hindus have some balls. Good for them. As the global percentage of the white population shrinks, so will the pro-Islam, anti-white, white western lunatics. Israel will also fail without white Zionist support (and Holocaust guilt).

    It’s unfortunately a rough situation for us – with the destruction of the whites (notably NW Euros) comes the destruction of GloboHomo. Unfortunately around 97% of whites cannot be saved. They are either scared or unable to think tribally, the way Indians, Pakistanis, etc.

    Personally I don’t really care what happens in the Sub-continent. If Muslims were acting the way in India that they do in the UK, I can tell you things would be alot more severe for them.

    The same pattern is really followed everywhere, though. Turn your own country into a shithole by your shitty culture and practices. Perhaps those obsessed with English culture should instead wonder why all of their countries, without exception, are shit holes (Gulf Coast is still a horrible place to live even with all the oil money and comfort). Rather than introspect, you then determine that the other, non-Muslim countries have a duty to save you because you’re poor and starving! Then turn the new location into a shithole just like the last one you fled. WITHOUT EXCEPTION.

    India is an interesting place, and i wish the Hindus luck. Just as I wish the Muslims luck. All need to return home. I’m interested to see how India turns out. Hindus have some brains, especially in the South. Their liberal democracy facade will fall in this decade and it will be fascinating to see what kind of system they choose to implement. Could be something totally new. We’re seeing China, with its National Socialist government, Russia, with its Orthodox Christian Traditionalist government, and let’s see what the Hindus cook up.

    All of these systems are doing better than our “feminist, liberal democracy” btw which is overtaken by leeches.

  155. @Talha

    Time for:
    United
    Muslim
    Military
    Alliance

    Brilliant!

    Ma sha ALLAH. How can any Muslim not love such enthusiasm?

    In one generation, the Muslim population of America will outstrip that of Jews. Demographics will likely bring about a tentative solution to the Palestinian crisis. As for UMMA, that would first require Muslims in any given country to be sufficiently unified among themselves to withstand any opposition that’s certain to militate against them. That unity would have to be religious as well, since disparate perspectives among the ranks would act to undermine the effectiveness of the alliance.

    Hmm …

    [Hi, ECHELON. Just kidding.]

    • Agree: Talha
    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Commentator Mike
  156. @Commentator Mike

    What I’m saying is much the same what Razman Kadirov said recently after meeting Mahmood el Habash, the advisor to the Palestinian president, condemning Trump’s peace proposal (3 March 2020):

    They believe that conflicts in Muslim countries erupt under the influence of the West. “I condemned the so-called deal of the century, which grossly violates international law and is a crime against the entire Muslim world” wrote Kadirov. He believes that the lack of unity of peoples and leaders of some countries in which Islam is the leading religion is fertile ground for the escalation of the crisis in the Middle East.

    https://capost.media/news/politika/kadyrov-plan-po-uregulirovaniyu-palestino-izrailskogo-konflikta-prestuplenie-protiv-musulman/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=cpc

    There is only this Russian source. I’m surprised RT or some Arab media haven’t reported this in English yet.

    • Agree: Talha
    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  157. Talha says:
    @Commentator Mike

    But I’ve always thought like that and not because of any particular affection for Muslims.

    I definitely respect the don’t-invade-don’t-invite

    Quite strange that although whites are quite individualistic they can still organise all these disparate nations that have had their own conflicts for centuries to work together against Muslims in wars, yet the Muslims who tend to be clannish cannot organise to jointly defend themselves from this military aggression.

    Excellent point here!

    there are the rulers and the ruled.

    Yup – the rulers are not acting in the interests of the ruled. The only thing is, at least in many Muslim countries this is a very open and obvious arrangement with ruling elites being un-elected monarchs or corrupt dictators…Europeans on the other hand, seem to be presided over by people that don’t act in their interests even through free and fair elections – I honestly don’t know which situation is worse.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  158. Talha says:
    @AnonStarter

    I’m personally hoping the “Persianate” bloc of the Muslim world can get this going first. This includes; Iran, Turkey, Pakistan, Azerbaijan, and any of the Central Asian ‘stans and even Iraq. They have a lot more cultural ties and shared history.

    Then loop in Egypt as the pivot to the North African and Arab spheres.

    Wa salaam.

  159. @AnonStarter

    I know a lot of that but you’re making it look as if those countries didn’t have a chance. I think they did have a greater chance for mutual cooperation but the problem was between the leaders as they all wanted to be No. 1 in any joint Arab endeavour.

    Furthermore, the first conflict that occurred between Muslims and Hindus was a consequence of Hindu piracy and kidnapping of Muslim women — a fact curiously omitted from the labor of our resident Hindutva apologists.

    LOL. And we Europeans know very well that it was Muslims who were kidnapping European women and slaves for centuries; the Barbary pirates were Muslims and the scourge of the seas as far as Ireland.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_pirates

    Muslims were also enslaving Africans. So I’m supposed to believe that Muslims somehow spared the Hindus from their practice of kidnapping and enslaving everyone they came across, on your say so.

    No need to argue, it’d be like arguing over who Kashmir belongs to – Pakistan or India? I couldn’t care less, let them fight over it.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  160. @Commentator Mike

    He believes that the lack of unity of peoples and leaders of some countries in which Islam is the leading religion is fertile ground for the escalation of the crisis in the Middle East.

    If not for this escalation, then for the weakness of the Muslim world. This has been the perpetual refrain of many imams, heard from countless minbars throughout the world for over one century.

    Yes, there’s truth to it. There’s also truth to the aggressiveness with which western hegemons regularly act to undermine such unity.

    The former truth is one which Muslims and Muslims alone must deal. The latter is one with which western folk and western folk alone must deal.

    I’m both of those, so I’ve got my hands full.

    • Replies: @Talha
  161. Talha says:
    @AnonStarter

    The former truth is one which Muslims and Muslims alone must deal.

    Agreed, we have to get our house in order.

    The latter is one with which western folk and western folk alone must deal.

    Doesn’t matter, expect nothing positive from that side and you won’t ever be disappointed. Assume the West will continue at-will invasions and bombings of Muslim lands until Muslims develop the means to deter them ourselves. Assume Hindutva-extremist mobs will continue to try to kill and purge as many Muslims as possible. What – do you expect any better? Why? They are called religious-extremists for a reason, right? Just like our religious extremists, they have to earn that name.

    It is in the economic interests of Western elites to keep the Muslim world fractured and killing each other so they can sell arms to each side and use Muslim populations as the testing grounds for the effectiveness of military hardware.

    Look at the history of Kuwait. Did it just spring up out of nowhere? Then ask yourself why it even exists. Ask yourself why Iraq had to be smashed for crossing its border.

    Brunei is another good one; the Sultan of Brunei is still protected by British SAS and Ghurkas…why? Why not native troops?

    Wa salaam.

    On a positive side, I’m glad Imran Khan stated publicly that any communal retaliatory violence wouldn’t be tolerated – and I hope he follows up on that harshly if it happens:

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  162. @Talha

    Excellent point here!

    In more secular societies, individuals are compelled to realize the strength attainable by solidarity as a consequence of lacking the strength acquired by keeping faith with God. Conversely, the faithful feel no dependence upon anyone but God; content and self-confident, this disposition all too often and ironically becomes an obstacle to solidarity with their brothers-in-faith.

    Ustadh Said Nursi rahmatullahi ‘alaih provides more details about this phenomenon here:

    http://www.nur.gen.tr/en.html#leftmenu=Risale&maincontent=Risale&islem=read&KitapId=494&BolumId=8747&KitapAd=The+Flashes+(Revised+2009+edition)&Page=200

    was-salaam.

    • Replies: @Talha
  163. SBaker says:
    @anon

    I don’t know those people and I don’t know the acronyms. Islam remains a gang of organized criminals and they are pretty damn good at mass murdering the innocent and unarmed. Get back in your cave.

    • Replies: @anon
  164. @Talha

    Doesn’t matter, expect nothing positive from that side and you won’t ever be disappointed.

    Well, as I said, I’m on “that side” as well. It’s inescapable, of course, and I really don’t have a choice but to deal with whatever my two hands can reach here. It’s my responsibility, after all.

    That doesn’t mean I’m about to shoulder unbearable burdens. Expect civility from the Hindutva? I don’t even expect it from our neighbors, though they’ve been alright.

    On a positive side, I’m glad Imran Khan stated publicly that any communal retaliatory violence wouldn’t be tolerated – and I hope he follows up on that harshly if it happens

    Insha’ALLAH!

    was-salaam.

  165. @AnonStarter

    In one generation, the Muslim population of America will outstrip that of Jews.

    So? In UK, France and some other European countries the Muslim population has long far exceeded the Jewish one and this has not resulted in a any change in policy in relation to Israel or wars for Jews in the Middle East.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
    , @AnonStarter
  166. @Commentator Mike

    I know a lot of that but you’re making it look as if those countries didn’t have a chance.

    No, I’m merely stating facts. I certainly don’t make any effort to exculpate Muslims.

    So I’m supposed to believe that Muslims somehow spared the Hindus from their practice of kidnapping and enslaving everyone they came across, on your say so.

    Did I make this claim? I merely attempted to provide some perspective as readers drown amid the deluge of anti-Islam sentiment inundating this thread. I certainly never said anything about Muslims not being involved in piracy that followed their wholesale expulsion from Europe, nor did I deny their role in the worldwide slave trade.

    If you have no skin in the game, why get bothered by this single historical fact? If I were to talk about the seemingly implausible comity between Hindus and Muslims under the reign of Muhammad ibn Qasim, would that upset you?

    What for?

  167. anon[228] • Disclaimer says:
    @SBaker

    Know something about the problem before opening your mouth . Just don’t regurgitate RSS fed data and idea . That is called freaking moronic stupidity of self -imposed ignorance . Tolerate the pain of knowing the facts . Until then stay away from any kind of posting .

    • Replies: @SBaker
  168. @Commentator Mike

    In UK, France and some other European countries the Muslim population has long far exceeded the Jewish one and this has not resulted in a any change in policy in relation to Israel or wars for Jews in the Middle East.

    A fair point, but France isn’t a good analogy, given its distinct form of government which codifies anti-religious legislation. In the UK, progress is slow in coming, yet the fact that it didn’t renege on the JCPOA is a very good sign. The last election was a disaster for Corbyn, but it also exposed the role of the Jewish Lobby in influencing the outcome. Muslims have yet to organize a united front in the same way as Jews have; given the recent exposure of the Lobby’s influence, however, they’re far more likely to start doing so in the near future.

    America is the nexus of the problem. Sanders’ strong showing has the usual suspects tearing their hair out. It’s quite possible he won’t even be the Democratic nominee, though this won’t matter much. The current shake-up in the Democratic Party is a sign of things to come.

    Change is incremental. It won’t happen overnight, but it’s going to happen. It’s just a matter of time.

    Give it a generation or two.

  169. De Doc says:

    Whatever! I could give two feces about this. I’m more concerned about South Asian immigration to the West, where they import their old ethnic and religious conflicts and push to make their problems become ours. Doesn’t this author have anything better to write about than issues in the Subcontinent?

  170. @SBaker

    Same with Tasleema Nasreen.

  171. @Commentator Mike

    There’s something else that merits attention …

    One of the most distinguishing characteristics of the western world has been its protection of free expression. Unfortunately, in Europe, this protection has been significantly eroded with the passage of hate speech laws and laws proscribing historical revisionism of WWII. England’s hate speech legislation has become farcical, particularly given Britain’s official adoption of IHRA standards for determining anti-Semitic hate speech.

    Trump’s Executive Order also adopted those standards, but the scope of their potential application currently reaches only college campuses, whereas in Britain, it covers all possible hate crimes. (It should also be noted that in both Britain and America, those standards are merely recommended as a means of judgment, not mandated.)

    Now in America, there is only one state — Florida — which has passed legislation like Britain’s, but as it is new legislation, no cases have been brought before the courts. In the event they are, it’s more than likely the law will fail as unconstitutional. Currently, about half of the United States have passed anti-BDS legislation, and of the four cases brought to court thus far, in three of them, the pro-BDS plaintiffs handily prevailed. (In two cases, Muslims brought suit.) The fourth is pending appeal and likely to be decided in the plaintiff’s favor as well.

    Insofar as this subject is concerned, the situation in America looks more promising. It’s an indication not only of the willingness of Muslim Americans to defend their constitutional rights, but also an indication that American courts recognize the attempt of Israel’s Lobby for what it is: a boldfaced attempt to undermine the single-most defining characteristic of the American republic.

    If Britain’s magistrates were to demonstrate as much integrity, I’d be just as hopeful for Britain. We’ll just have to wait and see what courts across the pond have to say.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  172. Talha says:
    @AnonStarter

    Beautiful advice – mashaAllah; Shaykh Nursi’s words are very similar to Imam Ghazali’s. I especially liked those 9 pieces of advice to overcome discord and disunity while not becoming exactly the same. Very practical.

    JazakAllahu khair, wa salaam.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  173. @Talha

    wa eeyakum, akhi.

    was-salaam.

  174. SBaker says:
    @anon

    You didn’t supply any facts. I know the world of Islam very well. I know their culture, their history, their techniques used on infidels, their practice of pedophilia, their incestuous behavior, their practice of bestiality, their abuse of women and children, and even the stupidity of their dietary beliefs. Inbred Omar married her own brother; now that is intelligent, isn’t it?

    • Replies: @BDS Always
    , @anon
    , @Anon
  175. @SBaker

    You have not supplied any facts either for your claims?

    There Is No Credible Evidence Rep. Ilhan Omar Married Her Brother.
    (if a lie is told enough times then it will appear to be the truth)
    Falling for that Crap, then that is intelligent, isn’t it?

    https://www.truthorfiction.com/there-is-no-credible-evidence-rep-ilhan-omar-married-her-brother/

    • Replies: @Talha
  176. Talha says:
    @BDS Always

    Snopes is your friend:
    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ilhan-omar-marry-brother/

    But this kind of stuff doesn’t matter, man. She’s gotten on the wrong side of the Zionist hit-squad so these things will keep coming.

    Peace.

    • Agree: Colin Wright
  177. anon[228] • Disclaimer says:
    @SBaker

    https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/31/world/asia/indian-scholar-who-criticized-worship-of-idols-is-killed.html

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/08/world/asia/india-lankesh-kalburgi-gun.html

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/01/india-delhi-after-hindu-mob-riot-religious-hatred-nationalists

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-43496017

    (86% killed in cow-related violence since 2010 are Muslim, 97% attacks after Modi govt came to power
    As many as 124 people were also injured in the cow-related attacks and more than half (52%) of these attacks were based on rumours.)-https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/86-killed-in-cow-related-violence-since-2010-are-muslims-97-attacks-after-modi-govt-came-to-power/story-w9CYOksvgk9joGSSaXgpLO.html

    (Four Dalit men stripped, beaten by cow protection vigilantes in Gujarat
    Four Dalit men were chained to a car, stripped and beaten up by cow protection vigilantes in Gujarat’s Gir Somnath district. )-https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/four-dalit-men-stripped-beaten-by-cow-protection-vigilantes-in-gujarat/story-vGhVgYXeHa0h8DwIiXfqQN.html

    ( ‘Top RSS, VHP men behind 2002 riots’
    “A six-month Tehelka investigation brings forward irrefutable evidence of many horrific incidents…,” says the magazine)-https://www.hindustantimes.com/india/top-rss-vhp-men-behind-2002-riots/story-OWZwg6UsQMylCAS3JNUMvI.html

    (Fact-finding team blames RSS for Kasganj riots
    An independent fact-finding team has blamed RSS and like-minded organisations — Sankalp Foundation and ABVP — for the Kasganj riots.)-https://www.hindustantimes.com/lucknow/fact-finding-team-blames-rss-for-kasganj-riots/story-2WZntHAJML3mcc6CVWBkeN.html

    • Thanks: AnonStarter
    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  178. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @SBaker

    Anon has to really hammer the sharp ends of the facts very hard on your thick head,it seems.
    But he didn’t have to do it . The earlier posts of KA, Meena,and Barr should have opened your thick head and provided you with the necessary painful realities .

    Your fascination with incest should prompt you to know about the ideological incestousness among AIPAC, Likud,EvangelicalFDD,JINSA, Labour’s Friend of Israeli,French version of ADL and AIPAC, Florida Republican ‘s Jewish corner ,UANI, David Project, and Greater Israel Project , PNAC or WSJ and Fox News.
    In real world ,the incest among Rothchilds shouldn’t have been lost to you . Incest in S India is still well established .

    Domestic violence, killing of babies,sons or daughters and domestic partners are something that you hear everyday in USA . Aboard ,you hear the same fate but caused most,y by US drones and MOAB and other nicely sounding names based on Judeo – Christian values like bringing freedom to the women by the pimps of the wars ,like Joe Lieberman, K,K,K ( Kristol Kagan , Krauthammer ) and Kushner and by the rent boys like Bolton ,Cheney and Blair ,Trump.

    Raccoon eating and cicada eating ,or snake eating to cat and dog eating – all abound in Christian world . Hindus eat various animal origin food until they find that they can use any of the habits against the contemporaneous target for certain advantage . This time it is cow. Tomorrow ,could be rat or boar. Because they worship rat and boar as incarnation of God.

    Beastiality seems to have cropped up in your head . It is not unexpected given the fear some of the beasts of the architects of the wars and riots have in their minds . That’s the only beastliaty , I can think of .

  179. @anon

    That revenge violence should be easy for Muslims to avoid. Just don’t abuse, attack, kill, or eat cows and the cow protection vigilantes won’t have any reason to assault you. How simple can that be?

    • Replies: @Meena
  180. anon[228] • Disclaimer says:
    @Just passing through

    “The violence began on Feb. 23 and lasted for several days, leaving at least 46 people dead in Delhi, the majority of them Muslims. It was the worst religious violence in India in years. Though some Hindus too were killed in the riots, it quickly emerged that Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), and the Delhi police force his government oversees, had tacitly supported the mobs, who chanted Hindu nationalist slogans as they burned buildings and beat Muslims while police reportedly looked on.

    Since the riots, hundreds of Muslims have fled the city, unsure if they will ever feel safe enough to return. Although both Hindu and Muslim houses were burned down in this corner of Delhi, on Saturday it was only Muslim families loading up their possessions to flee. “The ruling party has built an atmosphere against Muslims,” Efaz said. “Now, hate is being preached openly against us.”

    https://time.com/5794354/delhi-riots-muslims-india/

    The Diplomat is reporting that in Assam ,people who can trace their origin to 1860, will be allowed to live in Assam and rest’s will become homeless without the rights to the properties that they have now.

  181. Meena says:
    @Commentator Mike

    There will be something else

    Intermarriage
    Wearing certain dress
    Protesting against loss of inherent guaranteed rights
    Remaining politically quiet even ,
    Not respecting or observing Hindu festivities

    But the main problem is the false reality posted in social media that counts as news

    More often it’s not the killing of cows but allegation of killings or allegation of disrespect to Hindus (. Most of the times , Dalits or very low classes are the victim )

    Even traffic accident or property disputes or access to water – things that are dealt by established unbiased court or judiciary , are decided by mob on the spot and often the religion can have a dangerously deciding factor , promoted by police .

    Muslim can’t rent apartment .

    Dorm and student hostel will not allow Muslim because Hindu might not agree to share space or live next.

    Current emphasis in proof of citizenship has affected and will affect Muslim because the officer looking into documents have no trauaning other than to turn Muslim and not Hindu down , when lacking the documents .
    But the documents are created recently and do not address the almost universal lack of documents only 20 years ago . There are no Muslim officers . There are no police personnel also from Muslim community .

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  182. @Meena

    Sure. And Christians and Buddhists in India have the same problems with Hindus, do they?

    • Replies: @Talha
  183. RodW says:
    @BDS Always

    I got bored of your bad faith discussion. I hope you choke on your crumpet.

  184. RodW says:
    @Anonymous

    Ah, there it is again, the ‘brainwashed’ straw man. Nobody is brainwashed to dislike Jews and Muslims. We learn it from the behaviour of Jews and Muslims.

    Jews may or may not eat pork, but since they don’t see it as an opportunity for proselytising, that aspect of their weirdness has never impinged on me. There are plenty of other things to dislike them for. But in my experience, Muslims take every opportunity to give us infidels a patronising little lecture on the merits of being picky, and soon we come to wish the smiling brown wankers back in their own countries.

    I don’t recall ever having been pestered by a Sikh about anything, apart from the lovely Paul of Paul in the Mall on Guam, who did an excellent job of selling me a whole wardrobe of shirts and trousers. Since my experience of Sikhs has been generally very pleasant, I don’t dislike them at all.

    So you see there’s no brainwashing and no murderous ‘hate’. It’s a dislike bred of familiarity.

  185. Talha says:
    @Commentator Mike

    Well not all Hindus, just Hindutva extremists:

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  186. @AnonStarter

    AnonStarter,

    Just a general comment on how I see things.

    I presume you’re an American convert to Islam and I have no problem with that (actually I’m not American so I shouldn’t care anyway other than in the sense that I see USA as part of the European heritage) under the freedom of religion laws. But for those overseas Muslims who want to convert the world they should do their proselytising via the Internet and not send their imams and immigrants to invade the West.

  187. @Talha

    Talha,

    I know they sometimes kill priests, especially foreign ones, but generally the violence against Christians is not on the same level as against Muslims, and presumably because the Christians there tend to be more peaceful. I don’t agree with foreign missionaries going there and there should be enough Indian Christians to spread the religion to those whom may wish to convert.

    I’m also aware that many Indians want to convert to Islam, Buddhism and Christianity because they’re fed up with the caste system. It’s up to India how it resolves these issues. But definitely if upon partition they had separated even better the Muslims and the Hindus there would be less violence and religious problems now. And of course they’ve had their problems and violence with Sikhs too.

    Meena’s comment actually showed that Muslims haven’t done too well assimilating and integrating into Indian society, as she described how they stick out from the general population, even though they are of the same race as the rest. So what chance is there of integrating and assimilating foreign Muslims into white societies? Nobody in their right mind can say that importing a whole load of Muslims into European societies won’t increase the violence dramatically. We’ve all seen it happen in our own lifetime. Sure, Western intervention has also dramatically increased violence in many Muslim countries too.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Satish Bendigiri
  188. Talha says:
    @Commentator Mike

    presumably because the Christians there tend to be more peaceful.

    I think it’s more of a numbers game; there are simply more Muslims, thus more targets. Plus, Hindutva extremists are far more butt-hurt about Muslim history on the continent than the late comer Christians. They have cognitive discourse because they hate Muslims and want to expel them, while at the same time their great chief takes foreign dignitaries to visit the places Muslims built as examples of Indian high-culture:

    I’m also aware that many Indians want to convert to Islam, Buddhism and Christianity because they’re fed up with the caste system.

    Yup. They kill 50-100 in a chimp out riot and then for the rest of the year, Islam gets hundreds of converts…rarely do Muslims convert to Hinduism. I have personally come across Hindu converts to Islam even in the US. Not really sure what a Dalit gets out of a religion that tells him he was born inferior and that he deserves it for what he did in a previous life.

    It’s up to India how it resolves these issues.

    I agree. I don’t want the US or other non-Muslim countries gettign involved. We can handle this ourselves. One, through Muslims standing up and defending themselves when these extremists go ape – I saw a video where there were like 25 Hindutva guys heading towards a Muslim area to do damage and like 3 determined Muslim guys chased them off – sometimes you have to crack the nose of bullies. Give me 50 Chechens and 100 Uzbeks and I can easily guarantee the safety of the Muslim neighborhoods in Delhi. These Hindutva fanatics do swarm attacks with like 10-15 guys on one person. Second, the Muslim countries can easily say (if they had the will to do so); “get your dweeb extremists in check or we bring your economy to a grinding halt”:

    So we can handle this issue completely internally.

    Muslims haven’t done too well assimilating and integrating into Indian society

    Uh…Muslims were integral in helping build what is Indian culture; everything from language, to food to architecture. Do they stick out, yes? Hell yes. Because Muslims will obviously not assimilate with a pagan culture.

    So what chance is there of integrating and assimilating foreign Muslims into white societies?

    Integrating? Plenty – Muslims should integrate completely. Assimilating? Hopefully none – Muslims should never assimilate fully into non-Muslim cultures.

    Nobody in their right mind can say that importing a whole load of Muslims into European societies won’t increase the violence dramatically.

    Can’t disagree there, especially if people are bringing in thousands upon thousands of foreigners all at the same short time frame.

    Western intervention has also dramatically increased violence in many Muslim countries

    For sure.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Just Passing Through
  189. @Commentator Mike

    ” I’m also aware that many Indians want to convert to Islam, Buddhism and Christianity because they’re fed up with the caste system. It’s up to India how it resolves these issues. But definitely if upon partition they had separated even better the Muslims and the Hindus there would be less violence and religious problems now. And of course they’ve had their problems and violence with Sikhs too.”

    Hahaha…from where did you get this absurd idea? I can understand they may get converted into Christianity or Buddhism a remote idea, but into Islam? Any examples you can give? During Hare Krishna movement many westerners got converted into Hinduism. Acharya Rajneesh, aka Osho had thousands of followers from West who willingly decided to follow Hinduism. I hope you know Dr. David Frawley. Or Maria Wirth? Search them on Google and you get the answer.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
    , @anon
    , @KA
  190. @Satish Bendigiri

    Satish,

    Hahaha…from where did you get this absurd idea? I can understand they may get converted into Christianity or Buddhism a remote idea, but into Islam? Any examples you can give?

    https://www.nytimes.com/1981/08/14/world/lowly-hindus-in-india-see-islam-as-their-salvation.html

    https://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/aljazeeraworld/2015/09/dalit-muslims-india-150902080746653.html

    I’m aware of some westerners converting to Hinduism of the Hare Krishnas, Rajneesh, and other gurus – Tulsi Gabbard being the most prominent (if we can call her “western” as she is a mix of white and Pacific islander).

    • Replies: @Talha
  191. Escher says:
    @AnonStarter

    Yes, there were natives who embraced Islam, sometimes en masse and certainly of their own volition

    LOL. No conversions by the sword?

    such folk were often persuaded by the egalitarian manner in which Muslims administered themselves and others beneath the aegis of their rule.

    2X LOL. So non-muslims having to live under permanent subjugation and pay extra taxes is egalitarian.
    Muslims need to wake up and clean their house of the old-school backwards and toxic beliefs that have no place in the modern (or any civilised) world. But that would mean questioning the words of the most perfectly written book of all time, so unlikely it will happen.

  192. Talha says:
    @Commentator Mike

    One of the most (if not the most) popular musical composer in India right now is AR Rahman, who converted to Islam and has made many popular songs from a Sufi perspective:

    Peace.

  193. Escher says:
    @Talha

    For that they would have to learn how to operate complicated and dangerous machinery. Inbreeding over many generations tends to reduce the ability of that part of the brain.

    • Replies: @Talha
  194. Talha says:
    @Escher

    Muslims are fine where they’re at – not as advanced as other militaries, but that’s not necessary. All you need is something good enough to make the price of invading Muslim lands not worth it.

    The Muslims just need better cooperation, a much more meritocratic military structure and better allocation of resources.

    Peace.

  195. @Talha

    I think it’s more of a numbers game; there are simply more Muslims, thus more targets. Plus, Hindutva extremists are far more butt-hurt about Muslim history on the continent than the late comer Christians. They have cognitive discourse because they hate Muslims and want to expel them, while at the same time their great chief takes foreign dignitaries to visit the places Muslims built as examples of Indian high-culture:

    I do not think they have a hatred for Islam so much as they do for the people who converted to it. Many of the great Islamic built sites in India were designed by racially foreign groups from the likes of Persia or Central Asia. In fact India has good relations with Iran as demonstrated by the development of the Chabahar Port funded by India. These groups either left, were slowly destroyed by the British or faded away into obscurity as the new masters took over. The people they converted remained

    This depends on what you consider more important, race or religion. I have heard many Pakistanis boast about Islamic conquest of the subcontinent completely oblvious to the fact that their ancestors were converted by the sword of the invaders. It would be like the Christian converts in Africa getting all upitty about the achievements of the European colonialists and passing them off as their own, by virtue of the fact their ancestors cucked.

    These Hindutva fanatics do swarm attacks with like 10-15 guys on one person. Second, the Muslim countries can easily say (if they had the will to do so); “get your dweeb extremists in check or we bring your economy to a grinding halt”:

    Thankfully those Muslims are much more honourable…

    • Replies: @Talha
  196. anon[296] • Disclaimer says:
    @Satish Bendigiri

    How did Hindus and Buddhist got converted in Indonesia,Malaysia, Sri Lanka, Thailand in large numbers ? Were those countries ever conquered by Muslim ? How did Maldive and Ethiopia get converted ?

    What about Mongol’s Golden Horde?

    • Replies: @Satish Bendigiri
  197. KA says:
    @Satish Bendigiri

    “ During Hare Krishna movement many westerners got converted into

    Conversion to Hinduism has a checkered history ,way back to the early medieval period . The untouchables were the original owners of various lands . They would lose it and become the slave tied to the land. The encroachment ,forceful ,eviction, frank invasions and relocations – all methods were employed by Brahmin- Khatriya. They would take over the land . Build a temple . incorporate the surrounding area into their existing estate ,fiefdom,kingdoms,or simply establish entirely new ownership . The original owners who were not Hindu ( not basically related to the Brahminic entity which over years have morphed into various local religious groups like Shava or Bishnu until Hindu came to embrace the collective of the loose groups with 4 or 5 caste ) were relegated to serfdom and forced to serve this new Brahmincal Khatriya entity . They were given new identities – low caste, ungodly ,destined to serve the upper caste with no rights . That’s group constitute more than 50% of Hindu today.
    Those forced converts had fared much worse than any forced converts either of Christianity or of Islam .

    It’s a lie to claim “ Hindus didn’t convert “. Only difference,Hindus did much worse .

  198. Talha says:
    @Just Passing Through

    The people they converted remained

    Well, not that easy. There are plenty of people that are admixtures of the original conquerors. Usually you can tell this physically, but you can also tell by names. For instance, a popular actor like Salman Khan is from conquering stock – both in looks (he looks Turco-Persian) and by name:
    I am from Pakistan and look fairly Persian, but my family hails from Uttar Pradesh in India where my ancestor, a Sufi shaykh came and settled from Kirman, Iran. He converted many, many locals and has an entire city built around his grave. Obviously, my family left but plenty of his descendants that mixed with the locals still live there.completely oblvious to the fact that their

    ancestors were converted by the sword of the invaders

    No, they just don’t buy the propaganda that westerners do and know their history better. There were some forced conversions for sure – no doubt about that, but most were not. They were either sincere conversions at the hands of Sufi shaykhs like Moinuddin Chishti (ra) or for upper social mobility in a society where Muslims were the alpha. I suggest reading Prof. Richard Eaton’s research on this:
    “…those regions where the most dramatic Islamization occurred, such as eastern Bengal or western Punjab, lay on the fringes of Indo-Muslim rule, where the ‘sword’ was weakest, and where brute force could have exerted the least influence. In such regions the first accurate census reports put the Muslim population at between 70 and 90 percent of the total, whereas in the heartland of Muslim rule in the upper Gangetic Plain—the domain of the Delhi Fort and the Taj Mahal, where Muslim regimes had ruled the most intensively and for the longest period of time—the Muslim population ranged from only 10 to 15 percent. In other words, in the subcontinent as a whole there is an inverse relationship between the degree of Muslim political penetration and the degree of Islamization. Even within Bengal this principle holds true.
    The Rise of Islam and the Bengal Frontier, 1204-1760 (Univ. CA Press)

    Thankfully those Muslims are much more honourable…

    That’s a good point; pinhead religious extremists of every stripe seem to prefer to attack in cowardly fashion.

    Peace.

  199. @Talha

    Interesting insight.

    The fact remains that most of the Muslims in India are converts (by some method or another) and the same can be said of Pakistanis. I have been to both Pakistan (Karachi) and India (Mumbai) and physically the people looked identical. The people in the Western regions of Pakistan there are sure a lot of Persian looking people but they seem to be almost their own country and don’t associate much with the other parts of Pakistan as much as one would have expected (in many ways Pakistan is just like a smaller and less diverse version of India, the ethnic diversity is still there albeit not as much as India)

    It is still ludicrous for them to feel pride in the achievements of the Mughals though, sure they might have *some* of the DNA but overall the vast majority of Pakistanis look similar to various North Indian groups, indicating that they were at some point the same people but now divided by religion.

    Here in the UK, the only way I can positively identify a Pakistani is by his facial hair, otherwise they look the same as Indians. I am guessing it is because most Indians and Pakistanis in the UK are Punjabi.

    Either way, Pakistanis definitely have a higher level of fanaticism than Indians, whose foray into Hindu extremism seems to be relatively new as their country has been ruled by the left wing Congress party for much of the time. Observing Pakistani sociobiology in the UK, it is not hard to see that such people are aggressive in Pakistan against non-Muslims. I am guessing this is caused by the high rates of cousin marriages within the Pakistani Muslim community which leads to clannish behaviour and negative religio-ethnocentrism towards outsiders.

    India is obviously in quite a precarious position due to almost 1 in 6 of her citizens being Muslims. The UK is only 5% Muslim and I have witnessed first hand the amount of havoc they cause here, I can only begin imagine what it would be like at 15%, guess we Westerners are about to find that out in a couple of years time as well. Will the UK start to see Muslim riots in the near future when things do not go their way?

    • Replies: @Talha
  200. No forced conversions in Southeast Asia. But some form of government pressure is used in Indonesia, Malaysia and Brunei to induce conversion in more recent times.

    What about Mongol’s Golden Horde?

    I doubt anybody could convert them by the sword, LOL. More likely they converted others by force once they accepted Islam.

    https://www.britannica.com/topic/Islamic-world/Conversion-of-Mongols-to-Islam

    • Replies: @anon
  201. Talha says:
    @Just Passing Through

    The fact remains that most of the Muslims in India are converts (by some method or another)

    Correct. Though there was definitely admixture, and while there was definitely quite a bit of blood spilled, there was no wholesale replacement of the natives; those who state otherwise are simply lying.

    It is still ludicrous for them to feel pride in the achievements of the Mughals though

    But this goes back to your earlier point about what is more important; race or religion. Most Westerners at this point have a materialist (metaphysical) outlook – even if they claim to be cultural Christians, their entire paradigm of thinking is on the material plane. For Muslims (at least practicing ones), spiritual brotherhood and even spiritual lineages are more important. For instance, the Prophet (pbuh) had stated in hadith: “Verily you shall conquer Constantinople.”

    He was speaking to the audience of Arabs, but those people never conquered Constantinople, the Turks did. And though there are hadith about a later conquest of Constantinople near the end of times by the Muslims, he could have been talking about either one – but neither of them indicate that the “you” was talking about the Arabs that were in front of him. Furthermore, it is reported (in the Musnad of Imam Ahmad [ra]):
    “The Messenger of Allah (pbuh) said, ‘I wish I could meet my brothers.’ The Prophet’s companions said, ‘Are we not your brothers?’ The Prophet said, ‘You are my companions, but my brothers are those who have faith in me although they never saw me.’”

    So there is a spiritual brotherhood among Muslims which is stressed which transcends region, era and lineage. So the accomplishments of the Muslims belong to the Ummah due to that spiritual connection.

    I mean, if you are an Englishman and you take pride in the works of Newton…why? You didn’t do it. And you are certainly not descended from him since he had no kids. But, by virtue of some abstract connection to him, English people feel pride.

    One of my first teachers was a mufti younger than me. His mother was a Hindu from India and converted and married a Muslim, he is obviously local stock and from recent converts:

    My family is different stock and in the religion for far longer, but he mastered the various disciplines of the religion and someone like me respects him for it and calls him “teacher”.

    Pakistanis definitely have a higher level of fanaticism than Indians

    I’ll definitely agree that there is way too much extremism in Pakistan and even among certain Pakistani immigrants and this is an issue that needs to be tackled.

    I am guessing this is caused by the high rates of cousin marriages within the Pakistani Muslim community which leads to clannish behaviour and negative religio-ethnocentrism towards outsiders.

    Certainly possible that this is a factor. There has also been the unfortunate factor of Wahhabi-Salafi style extremism entering into the community which has been traditionally a Sufi-oriented one. You can see the damage they have done in this list of over 15 Sufi mausoleums they’ve attacked since 2005:
    https://www.dawn.com/news/1315263

    Will the UK start to see Muslim riots in the near future when things do not go their way?

    I certainly hope not.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Just Passing Through
  202. @anon

    Well, getting converted to Muslim has its own benefit. For example, you can eat meat if your taste buds were demanding the taste of it. If your nature is belligérant and militant and take pride in showing it by throwing your weight around by cutting your birthday cake with a sword, if you have killing instincts and you don’t like to be kind with animals, being Muslim is good. The most attractive feature is you can have four girls as your wives, you can fuck them 24/7, 365 days in any position you want and still be atrocious with them. If one of the wife is menstruating another three are at your disposal to satisfy your carnal desire. Isn’t it?

  203. Barr says:

    . The most attractive feature is you can have four girls as your wives, you can fuck them 24/7,”

    Wht’s the ratio of girl to boy or woman to man in Saudi Arabia or in Pakistan ? Any idea or thought? Did you just throw that line after ringing somebody inRSS headquarters? RSS’s receptionists write books on statistics ,nuclear science, history and religion .
    At least the numbers are not distorted by selective foeticide or by bride burning which takes place among the Hindus of Northern India .

  204. anon[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Commentator Mike

    May be that’s why Russia remained a Christian country despite 400 years of Muslim Tartar rule . Same applies to India and Mongolia.

  205. @Talha

    Correct. Though there was definitely admixture, and while there was definitely quite a bit of blood spilled, there was no wholesale replacement of the natives; those who state otherwise are simply lying.

    And what of the peoples of modern day Pakistan?

    I would imagine the Pashtuns and Balochis have more conquerer DNA coursing through their veins than Punjabis or Sindhis? After all, the former two look more Persian while the latter two groups can also be found in India albeit under a different religion

    I mean, if you are an Englishman and you take pride in the works of Newton…why? You didn’t do it. And you are certainly not descended from him since he had no kids. But, by virtue of some abstract connection to him, English people feel pride.

    My personal theory in why people take pride in such things is due to some innate awareness of the laws of inheritance. It is theoretically possible that one of my descendents could be the next Newton after all, that is why Englishmen take pride in the many achievements of the English peoples because they know they carry the torch of English genius within them. In the case of Islam, simply changing ones culture does not give one the innate abilities that made the original carriers of that culture great. An African Christian’s descendents will not be producing architecture like that of Notre Dame or St. Peters Basilica by virtue of their ancestors being converted to the religion of the Europeans who came. This is of course an extreme case but the priciple still holds.

    I personally do not put to much faith in national IQ statistics, and according to Lynn Pakistan, India and Iran are all in the same ballpark (India = 82, Pakistan and Iran = 84), but Iran stands out in its cultural achievements in my opinion, while Pakistan and India are comparable in terms of ethnic groups and level of civilisation (both countries suffer from poor sanitation, rape culture and corruption). This leads one to lean towards the notion that the current day population of Pakistan is not really that related to the conquerers who came from Iran and who were of Central Asian/Persian stock.

    Either way, Pakistan and India both have histories of humiliation and should work towards creating a new future, both people seem to get too hung up on the past (we wuz mughals n shieet versus we wuz aryans n shieet) and Pakistanis are way more fanatic, with India also developing its own fanaticism to counter the Islamic one. All while Western arms manufacturers enagage in intense hand rubbing…

    • Replies: @Talha
  206. Talha says:
    @Just Passing Through

    I would imagine the Pashtuns and Balochis have more conquerer DNA coursing through their veins than Punjabis or Sindhis?

    The main conquerors were Turco-Persians (like Ghaznavids) or sometimes Turco-Afghan (like the Khaljis), and their armies were composite (even including Hindu mercenaries) so what you are stating is quite possible. One thing that butt-hurt Hindutva extremists seem to forget is that these very capable military elites and their armies were able to halt multiple attempts by the Mongols to invade the interior of India (which would have been a blood bath):

    In the case of Islam, simply changing ones culture does not give one the innate abilities that made the original carriers of that culture great.

    No, it does not, but it also gives one; 1) a spiritual connection to the same (this being the most important according to the a priori metaphysical assumptions – everyone dies, no matter what race they came from and are eaten by the Earth, what then – the spirit remains and the spiritual brotherhood persists) and 2) a roadmap by which one can also attempt to achieve what those others had achieved irrespective of the innate advantages or limitations one possesses.

    I personally do not put to much faith in national IQ statistics

    Today, people want some sort of easy silver bullet explanation for complex issues. The idea that there could be a variety of different aspects at play to produce a phenomenon doesn’t appeal to them, it’s too unpredictable and scary. They want a formula or equation that they can plug in numbers and produce plot points on a graph.

    Peter Turchin and his “Cliodynamics” seems to at least be more interdisciplinary in approach, but I think even he is trying too hard.

    Either way, Pakistan and India both have histories of humiliation and should work towards creating a new future, both people seem to get too hung up on the past

    Agreed. It is a comforting thing to retreat into the past when one is embarrassed about the present. I’m actually one of the minority of people from Pakistan that still think the jury is out on whether Partition was a good thing – I simply don’t know. I also think Pakistani culture and identity owes a lot to its larger connection to India as well as to its Persian connection.

    All while Western arms manufacturers enagage in intense hand rubbing…

    Yup.

    Peace.

  207. Malla says:
    @Satish Bendigiri

    ew thugs emerged to loot India were British.

    British looting India is bullshit. i have debunked this non sense several times.

    Thus Muslim and British both reduced India to poverty.

    Muslims rulers maybe, but definitely not the British Raj.

    • Replies: @Satish Bendigiri
  208. Disgusted says:
    @Talha

    Conquering stock? Turko-Persian? LMAO

    What a pathetic loser you are for sure. Salman Khan has a Hindu mother, FYI.
    There are Hindus who have that look pretty much everywhere in North India, NW India as far down as Gujrat and Maharashtra. He is nothing special, and looks like literally every second North Indian HINDU guy. I have seen many far Eastern people who look far more Persianate that any everyday Pakistani.

    You have confirmed you are a loser, who is obsessed with race and lineage, despite piling the spiritual brotherhood garbage on everyone else. Losers generally talk this kind of garbage not having achieved anything in life.

    • Replies: @Talha
  209. Talha says:
    @Disgusted

    He is nothing special, and looks like literally every second North Indian HINDU guy.

    Uh if you say so – he obviously does NOT since he wouldn’t be a movie star if he did.

    I have seen many far Eastern people who look far more Persianate that any everyday Pakistani.

    Same here. Depends on which Pakistani people you are talking about.

    You have confirmed you are a loser

    Thanks for your opinion.

    who is obsessed with race and lineage

    Not obsessed at all, but I’m certainly willing to discuss it.

    piling the spiritual brotherhood garbage on everyone else

    Thanks for another opinion. I’m actually very happy and feel blessed to have people that I call brothers from all sorts of background in my local community; white/black converts, Senegalese, Bosnians, Bangladeshis, Uzbeks, etc. so your opinion is noted and dismissed.

    Feel free to reply, but don’t expect a further response.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Disgusted
  210. Disgusted says:
    @Talha

    You reveal your hand, quite clearly.

    SK is a movie star, not for any innate talents (he particularly cannot act, even after all these years), but because his father is a famous scriptwriter who is heavily involved/possibly related to the initial stars of Bollywood, many of whom came from the NW provinces, and are Muslim or crypto-Muslims*** who use Hindu names to attract audiences. He is not talented (his movies are a meme for being devoid of talent, logic and facts), and not particularly great looking either. He is a product and prime example of the rampant nepotism that RULES Bollywood. Most of these kinds of films are funded with black money that comes from the criminal gangs (need I say Muslim) that run amok in Mumbai. He is a ruthless asshole who is infamous for utterly low class behaviour like peeing in hotel lobbies and public scuffles, assaulting women, killing poor people while drunk driving, and killing endangered species of animals i.e. rules for the poor fucks who watch his crap films don’t apply to him cuz Turko-Persian ruling class and all. Sheesh!

    I’m sure you find a brotherhood with this man fer sure, given your half-baked comments about race and conquering stock bs. He seems to be your type. Your spiritual brotherhood blather gives me the heeby jeebies because you can’t even hear yourself on how fake and hypocritical you sound. A man who felt brotherhood for other people and races, would not talk in this strangely subversive manner. You have an agenda obviously and its pretty clear what that is. You are trying to white-wash and soft-pedal an image of muslims being utterly reasonable and peaceful people. But its just a veneer and you have outed yourself.

    ***I have come to the conclusion that many, if not most, film stars in Bollywood, as well as prominent people in that industry are crypto-Muslims. Nothing else makes sense of how they behave.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
  211. But this goes back to your earlier point about what is more important; race or religion. Most Westerners at this point have a materialist (metaphysical) outlook – even if they claim to be cultural Christians, their entire paradigm of thinking is on the material plane. For Muslims (at least practicing ones), spiritual brotherhood and even spiritual lineages are more important. For instance, the Prophet (pbuh) had stated in hadith: “Verily you shall conquer Constantinople.”

    profound

    • Replies: @Disgusted
  212. Disgusted says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Yes, profound obsfucating drivel.

    • Replies: @Disgusted
  213. Disgusted says:
    @Disgusted

    Fran Taubman, this man whose thoughts you admire as so ‘profound’ belongs to a religious nation that literally slaughtered one half of their own countrymen (East Pakistan which became Bangladesh) because they were of a different race and ethnicity (darker, shorter Bengalis vs the taller, bigger, presumably light skinned West Pakistanis). Whence the spiritual brotherhood then? Oh its all spiritual brotherhood when it comes to Turks, Arabs and Persians, a presumably superior people. This reeks of an inferiority complex.

    Do go and read about the particularly gruesome genocide, mass rapes and torture which took place in Bangladesh (of all people, but particularly Hindus) and then come back and admire this nonsense about spiritual brotherhood from the man who literally in the same text admitted to being part of a conquering stock and not wanting to assimilate with pagans. Natch!

  214. @Malla

    Britain drained out over $45 trillion from India, which to date has hampered the country’s ability to come out of poverty.
    Reincarnation, an endless cycle of birth and rebirth, driven by how one lived one’s previous life is a Hindu belief. At some point mankind will learn from its mistakes and achieve Moksha ( salvation) is what is required to be learnt . Hinduism believed in a Varna ( caste) system namely Brahmin, (learned men), Kshatriya ( warrior or a king) Vaishy ( business class or artisans) and Shudras ( menials or workers at lower level) a hierarchical caste system to assist smooth functioning of the society in general which eventually marred by superstition, and religious beliefs which culminated into higher and lower class fight to gain superiority and this played a part in the ease with which both the Mughals and the British managed to dominate India.
    The French and the British fought each other during 1740s and 1757s until the British, under Robert Clive beat the French at the Battle of Plassey in 1757.The battle allowed the EIC (East India Company) to gain dominance over the French in India. As a result of the war the Bengal treasury was forced to pay huge compensation, which further financed British expansion in India and allowed the British to usurp Mughal throne. For the next hundred years, the EIC arranged the infrastructure to facilitate trade for their own benefit.
    Indian precious resources like gold and forex earnings, all went to feed the people of the British country.
    every year the Britishers siphoned off resources equivalent to 26-36 per cent of the Central government’s budget. This would have made a huge difference in India’s journey towards being a ‘developed’ nation.
    Britain exported foodgrains and imposed high taxes, which spread famine in India and reduced its purchasing power.Per capita annual consumption of food, which was 200 kg in 1900, went down to 137kg during World War II in 1946. Then they left India in 1947 cutting India into two pieces, the wounds of which have not healed to date.
    Thus first Mughals who drained Hindustan by enforcing Jiziya tax, committing atrocities by killing, maiming, raping, converting, persecuting and looting its riches and then British who almost dug the grave and buried India deep down.

  215. Malla says:
    @Satish Bendigiri

    Britain drained out over $45 trillion from India, which to date has hampered the country’s ability to come out of poverty.

    India did not have $45 trillion you stupid idiot, how would the British loot something that did not exist?

    As a result of the war the Bengal treasury was forced to pay huge compensation, which further financed British expansion in India and allowed the British to usurp Mughal throne

    The Marathas looted Bengal in order of magnitude far more than what the EIC got.

    For the next hundred years, the EIC arranged the infrastructure to facilitate trade for their own benefit.

    Proof?

    Britain exported foodgrains and imposed high taxes,

    Taxes in British India was FAR LOWER than Maratha and Mughal taxation. Famines existed in India before the British came. Western medicine paled a big part in the rapid rise of the Indian population which led to more famine.

    Then they left India in 1947 cutting India into two pieces, the wounds of which have not healed to date.

    The British played no part in the partition of India.

    • Replies: @Satish Bendigiri
  216. Malla says:
    @Satish Bendigiri

    I will debunk all of you B.S Indian education system propaganda/ marxist propaganda one by one.

    Partition of INDIA

    The British wanted a United India, partition was forced on them by the Muslim league
    From British parliament records Hansard
    https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1947/jul/15/indian-independence-bill

    The President of the Board of Trade (Sir Stafford Cripps) said on the floor of the British parliament while discussing the INDIAN INDEPENDENCE BILL 15 July 1947

    “We take this action, not because it is forced upon us by circumstances outside our control, but because it is consistent with all that we hold to be just and right. It is true, as many have remarked in the course of our discussions on the future of India, that we would far rather have passed a Bill setting up a single united government for India as a whole. That has not proved possible and it is not the sole fault of any of us, Indians or Englishmen, that it has not proved possible. It is the inevitable outcome of a long history of difficulties and of tensions, of lost opportunities and human failures of which we have all had our share. None of us can point our finger at others and say, “But for you, all would have been well.” I am perfectly conscious myself in the small part I have played in these matters, that by greater wisdom and understanding at particular moments I might have made a better contribution to a united India, but it is of no profit now to review the past. This Bill will launch us into a new and, let us hope, a happier era.
    I have always held and often stated that we should never achieve true and worthwhile co-operation with India until we could deal with one another upon the basis of absolute equality. It is that equality which this Bill will establish for the first time. It will thus create a basis for a far deeper and more significant friendship between the peoples of our two countries. Some have thought in the past that we could hold India in close association with ourselves on some basis of modified domination. That is not possible, and to believe it shows a profound misunderstanding of all that is inherent in the democratic principles which we have spread throughout the world from this country. I am convinced, therefore, that this Bill will do more to create a real and living friendship with India than any other action which this country has ever taken.
    A great deal has been said in the course of the Debates on this Bill on the subject of the Muslim and Hindu communities and the difficulties resulting from their inability to co-operate, but let us not forget that there are other important elements in India besides these two communities. To name two, there are the Sikhs and the Pathans. In some ways the position is far more difficult for these two communities than for the two major communities. It is not practicable, short of the complete Balkanisation of India, which I think no one desires, to give to every individual community the complete and undiluted rights of self-government which the two major communities attain through this Bill. But that fact does nothing to diminish our care or anxiety that the Sikhs and the Pathans should receive the fullest measure of recognition for their racial and cultural differences. 229Both these people have shown restraint in their most difficult situation and we hope and believe that those to whom, by this Bill, we are now remitting power in Pakistan and India will do their utmost to admit the reasonable claims of these two splendid peoples who have contributed so much to the life of India.”

    Mr. R. A. Butler (Saffron Walden) said in the same session of parliament
    “It is always said that the most remarkable frontier affecting the British Commonwealth is that between the United States and Canada, where one can see no guard and where there are miles and miles of friendly contact. Those of us who know some of the difficulties and sorrows of the partitions that are taking place, and in particular those in the Punjab, will realise that it is too much to hope that there will be no unfriendly gestures, or no unfortunate skirmishing. But let us at least hope that, thanks to the Dominion relationship that will prevail between these two new Dominions, frontiers may be set up and observed which, in time, may be regarded as just as friendly as the famous frontier to which I have drawn the attention of the House. But we must remember that in the partition of the Punjab, which is the second partition, apart from the partition of India itself, we have left the Sikh community, to whom the right hon. and learned Gentleman made reference, almost exactly divided as between one side of the frontier and another.
    It is to be hoped that the boundary commission, on which the most serious responsibility will fall, will be able so to arrange the boundary that shrines and properties, and other things held dear to the Sikhs, may he amassed, as far as possible, in one area, provided that no violence is done to a proper division between Muslim and non-Muslim areas, in the same way, it is hoped that the partition of Bengal will so take place that the industrial welfare of the Eastern portion may not be prejudiced, and that access may be had to the sea through the port of Calcutta in some satisfactory manner.
    I cannot help feeling, although the partition of India appears violently necessary at the present time, that as history develops, certain contacts must be made between the two portions of India which have been divided, and that the conception of a greater whole will arise. I looked over many of the documents and papers which we had to study in the course of the preparation of the 1935 Act, those relating to communications, to railways, and, in particular, to the provision of water in one section of India to the other. Very often a water supply to the villages it has to serve may be divided by the frontier. In the question of finance, in all of these aspects some nexus will be necessary, and how that is to be invented is at present beyond the wit of man. Immediate arrangements have to be made before the appointed day. There is a violent hurry, and it is quite clear to any who have studied this matter scientifically at all that many of these great questions are left unsolved at the present time, and for some time in the future. I trust, therefore, that the relationship between the Governors-General and the Ministers of the various Governments may be friendly, and that matters to be decided, may be taken to the Arbitral Tribunal, which was mentioned yesterday in the course of our deliberations. I should like the Government to consider in another place whether the Arbitral Tribunal cannot be brought more into the picture, and whether they have given their final decision as to its inclusion in the Bill.”

  217. Malla says:
    @Satish Bendigiri

    THE BRITISH UNITED THE SUBCONTINENT.

    It was the Muslim League which wanted Pakistan, they felt that the Indian national Congress did not represent them. The Indian National Congress was dominated by upper caste Hindus.

    Dr. Babasaheb Ambedkar, leader of lower caste rights and the author of the Indian Constitution wrote

    “If there is any doubt about her dual personality, it has now been dispelled by the Resolution of the Muslim League demanding the cutting up of India into two, Pakistan and Hindustan, so that these conflicts and convulsions due to a dual personality having been bound in one may cease forever, and so freed from each other, may dwell in separate homes congenial to their respective cultures, Hindu and Muslim.
    It is beyond question that Pakistan is a scheme which will have to be taken into account. The Muslims will insist upon the scheme being considered. The British will insist upon some kind of settlement being reached between the Hindus and the Muslims before they consent to any devolution of political power. There is no use blaming the British for insisting upon such a settlement as a condition precedent to the transfer of power. The British cannot consent to settle power upon an aggressive Hindu majority and make it its heir, leaving it to deal with the minorities at its sweet pleasure. That would not be ending imperialism. It would be creating another imperialism. The Hindus, therefore, cannot avoid coming to grips with Pakistan, much as they would like to do.

    If the scheme of Pakistan has to be considered, and there is no escape from it, then there are certain points which must be borne in mind.

    The first point to note is that the Hindus and Muslims must decide the question themselves. They cannot invoke the aid of anyone else. Certainly, they cannot expect the British to decide it for them. From the point of view of the Empire, it matters very little to the British whether India remains one undivided whole, or is partitioned into two parts, Pakistan and Hindustan, or into twenty linguistic fragments as planned by the Congress, so long as all of them are content to live within the Empire. The British need not interfere for the simple reason that they are not affected by such territorial divisions.

    Further, if the Hindus are hoping that the British will use force to put down Pakistan, that is impossible. In the first place, coercion is no remedy. The futility of force and resistance was pointed out by Burke long ago in his speeches relating to the coercion of the American colonies.”

    YOUR BRITISH DIVIDED INDIA B.S. DEBUNKED. In later posts I WILL PROVE HOW THE British ACTUALLY DEVELOPED INDIA AND MAY HAVE LOST MONEY ON INDIA. But thanks to the 3 posts limit on UNZ.com, that will have to wait for later.

  218. Malla says:
    @Satish Bendigiri

    The Great American economist Milton Friedman on Colonialism

    A student poses a question to Milton Friedman in which he asks for an appraisal of just how exactly the riches that now exist in the so called “capitalist democracies” were obtained and how those countries became so rich so quick. Specifically he asks Friedman to account for the effect that having free labor derived from slavery allowed them to enrich themselves, and how the possession of colonies allowed rich countries to bleed wealth out of their colonial domains. Friedman responds by claiming it’s simply untrue that the wealth that arose in Western countries was due to slavery. Slavery was a disgrace and a blot on the United States’ record, but many rich Western nations did not have slavery. Britain and Japan did not have slaves when they developed and Hong Kong does not have slaves today. He goes onto claim that the facts are against the notion that the wealth was created due to the West exploiting its colonies. The reason people are quick to think so is that they have an ingrained predisposition to see view the world as a zero-sum game where if one man gains the other man looses. In reality a free market allows everyone to gain through mutually beneficial voluntary transactions. When the West colonized Africa they brought with them technology that greatly improved the condition of the people that lived there and actually made them better off. The wheel for example had not even been invented in Africa in the 19th century. As a result of Africa’s contacts with the West their condition improved greatly from what it previously was. To the charge that colonizers bleed wealth from their colonies, Friedman notes that it has always cost the mother country more to maintain its colonies then what was ever received in direct or indirect economic benefit. (5:44 minutes in the above video) In the famous case of India, conclusive studies have shown that it cost Britain far more to maintain India then if it had never had it. Furthermore, many Western nations never possessed colonies yet became wealthy despite that fact.

    THE BRITISH ECONOMY DURING THE EMPIRE DID NOT DEPEND ON THE BRITISH INDIAN ECONOMY BUT TRADED PRIMARILY WITH THE USA & THE REST OF EUROPE. BRITISH INDIA WAS A TINY PART OF BRITISH TRADE.

    From http://www.friesian.com/british.htm
    we see that Britain’s trade with the Third World was tiny and not of any consequence as compared to it’s trade with the USA and the rest of Europe from the above link “Another lesson to be read off the trade figures is that a relatively small fraction of British trade involved colonies that would later constitute the “Third World.” Indeed, the only trade surpluses in the table are with India, Africa, the West Indies, and the Far East, which might give some heart to Marxist claims that British colonies, especially India, were the outlet for Capitalist “excess production.” However, the trade surpluses are small, and overall British trade with India and the other colonies is hardly larger than with the much, much smaller populations of Australia, New Zealand, and Canada. No serious argument can be made that the likes of Australia and New Zealand, with their own autonomous governments and protective tariffs, were being “exploited” by Great Britain. Instead the largest British export market is simply with the rest of Europe. Indeed, Europe, the United States, Australia, Canada, etc. are the places where more people would have enough money to buy British goods.

  219. Malla says:
    @Satish Bendigiri

    http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/essay/economic-lessons-from-the-raj
    IT’S A SAD paradox of our history that national independence came with the loss of the economic freedom India enjoyed for a century-and-a-half under British rule. That may come as a surprise to Indians brought up on nationalist myths about colonial rule plundering India, de- industrialising its economy and draining off its wealth. More recent economic studies show that colonial India, well ahead of other developing countries, had built up a trading and industrial base that would have made it the envy of the Eastern Tiger economies, had Nehruvian socialism not cut it off from global markets after 1947.

    Let’s take the myth of colonial plunder first. During the early phase of conquest, British generals and common soldiers undoubtedly acquired much war booty, then regarded as the legitimate spoils of victory. But their plunder was minimal compared with that of Indian contemporaries like the Marathas and Tipu Sultan or other foreign invaders from Iran and Afghanistan.

    Much before the East India Company took over Bengal, the Marathas had ravaged the province with six plundering raids in the course of a decade, killing off hundreds of thousands and exacting huge sums in chauth from its Mughal Nawab, estimated at Rs 2.5 crore per annum in today’s money. It was these attacks and the inability of the feeble Mughal administration to resist them that led the Hindu business community, led by the powerful Jagat Seth banking house, to plot the British takeover of 1756-64.

    Delhi was less fortunate than Bengal and suffered devastating invasions by Iran’s Nadir Shah, followed by the Afghan Ahmad Shah Abdali. According to contemporary estimates, Nadir Shah’s sack of Delhi in 1739 extracted in one month an estimated Rs 70 crore worth of plunder, many times anything creamed off by the Company Sahib during its most rapacious years in Bengal, and a blow from which the Mughal economy never recovered.

    Myth number two is that India declined from being an economic superpower under the Mughals to a de-industrialised colonial wasteland. True, Mughal India in 1700 accounted for 25 per cent of world Gross Domestic Product, a statistic often misquoted to prove economic success, except when one remembers that India also had 25 per cent of the world’s population. Far more revealing are statistics of per capita GDP compiled by the Maddison Project, generally accepted as the most authoritative guide to global prosperity from ancient Roman times to the present.

    The Maddison figures show that India’s per capita GDP was only half that of Britain’s in 1600, when the Mughal Empire was at its peak. Thereafter India witnessed steady economic decline, with its trade heavily dependent on textile exports increasingly unable to compete with cheaper European cloth. That’s because the Mughal economy offered neither incentives nor opportunity for labour-saving technological innovation. Eighty per cent of its territories were allocated to a rentier class of jagirdars, who creamed off any agricultural surplus for their own luxurious lifestyles. Because their tenure was restricted to a few years, they had no incentive to reinvest their rents in improved productivity. Capital costs were prohibitively high, with interest rates double the 6 per cent average in Britain and peaking as high as 40 per cent in pre-colonial Bengal.

    That’s not the propaganda of colonial apologists but the judgement of eminent Indian historians as diverse as the Marxist Irfan Habib and the nationalist Tapan Raychaudhuri. ‘Not only was the Mughal state its own gravedigger,’ concluded Habib, ‘but no new order was or could be created by the forces ranged against it.’

    Both Habib and Western economists like Angus Maddison have agreed that the Mughal land revenue system was far more exploitative than anything later devised by the Company Sahib or the Raj. It’s estimated that the Mughal elite creamed off an average 15 per cent of national income for its own consumption, compared with a mere 5 per cent by the British. Under the rapacious warlords who succeeded the Mughals, land revenue demands soared as high as 50 per cent of production to fund their local wars.

    India in 1750, on the eve of the British conquest, had no scientific or technological research, no machinery, no mechanical tools. Its labour-intensive textiles were bound to suffer dramatically, whoever ruled, once cheaper European industrial goods captured their markets. This economic challenge coincided with a period of fierce regional wars, following the collapse of Mughal authority, which devastated both agriculture and manufacturing across vast swathes of the Subcontinent. It was a situation which left the European-ruled ports as the only safe havens for Indian commerce, prompting a migration of business communities like Marwaris from declining inland cities like Benares and Mathura to Calcutta, Madras and Bombay.

    The first two decades of Company rule were undoubtedly a period when private trade carried on by its corrupt employees, in defiance of the Company’s own monopoly, damaged indigenous competitors. But the Company itself had no interest in such abuses, relying as it did on a steady supply of high quality Indian textiles that it could export to Europe. After 1773, when the British Parliament took direct oversight of the Company’s finances and administration, such privateering was firmly stamped out.

    • Replies: @Malla
  220. Malla says:
    @Malla

    Myth number three is that our colonial rulers deliberately de-industrialised India by flooding it with machine-made British goods at the expense of Indian manufacturing. The Company certainly had no links with the satanic mills of Lancashire, nor any interest in selling their products. Its own trading interests lay in selling Indian goods to Europe, so it lobbied hard to lower British tariffs on them and also to raise protective Indian tariffs. That it failed to do so was a measure of the extent to which Europe’s Industrial Revolution was inevitably turning the economic tide against traditional cottage industries worldwide.

    Even so, recent research has demonstrated that European industrial competition, though far from being a zero-sum game, created winners as well as losers. Cheaper factory-made British yarn may have hit Indian spinners but was a boon for weavers, who could now source cheaper supplies and produce a more competitive end-product. Although textile exports declined, domestic demand grew, with per capita cloth consumption increasing from 5.8 sq yards per year in 1750 to 7.4 sq yards in 1850. Handlooms held their own in the production of saris, but lost out to machine-made men’s clothing.

    By the 1850s, a massive road-building programme by the East India Company had given Indian trade 2,600 km of newly metalled highways, including, of course, the Grand Trunk Road

    Far from being wiped out by colonial competition, actual numbers in the handloom sector remained stable throughout most of the colonial period, ending with the same number in 1947 as in 1750. Cheap yarn imports also freed weavers from being tied to regional spinning centres and enabled them to move closer to the ports, where they forged new links with mercantile houses, sowing the seeds of India’s own infant textile factories. India’s population increased from 170 million in 1750 to 425 million in 1947, a sure indicator of reduced famines and improved public health.

    Myth number four is that imperial trade was a one-way flow, with cheap Indian raw materials extracted to supply British industry. The Raj created a Subcontinent-wide single market or customs union, which would have been the envy of the European Union today and which hugely expanded both internal and foreign trading opportunities for Indian merchants. By the 1850s, a massive road-building programme by the East India Company had given Indian trade 2,600 km of newly metalled highways, including, of course, the Grand Trunk Road. By 1913, India also had the world’s largest canal system and its fourth largest rail network.

    This new transport revolution transformed agriculture and commerce by enormously speeding up flows of goods and price information. The railways lowered freight costs by as much as 90 per cent in the mid-19th century, compared with their predecessor, the bullock-cart. Based on the volume of freight traffic in 1900, the social savings brought by rail amounted to as much as Rs 1.2 billion or 9 per cent of national income. Detailed statistical studies at Cambridge University and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) have demonstrated that railways raised real incomes by an average of 16 per cent in the districts they reached.

    India’s foreign trade also benefitted from British command of the seas. Imperial naval protection helped Gujarati merchants like the Khojas trade with East Africa and the Gulf, establishing business networks that still survive. The other hugely lucrative opportunity for Indian merchants was the British-protected China trade in tea, cotton, indigo, jute and, notoriously, opium. The wealth from such commerce found its way into new banks and joint stock companies, established on the basis of newly introduced Western- style company law, and fed infant stock markets. The managing agency system, later reviled by Indian socialists, allowed scarce managerial skills to be pooled across companies, while protecting them from hostile takeovers.

    From 1913 to 1938, Indian manufacturing output grew at an annual 5.6 per cent, well above the world average of 3.3 per cent and a growth rate we would welcome today

    By the 1850s, India’s own industrial revolution was taking off, fuelled by a virtuous economic circle of faster internal transport, increased commerce and agricultural productivity, rapidly expanding export markets and the resulting much-needed capital accumulation in an economy long starved of venture capital. Far from blaming colonialism, development economists now agree that India’s chronic capital shortage was largely due to geographical and climatic factors.

    If globalisation is defined as the capacity to buy the knowledge, goods and services one needs in global markets, the British Empire led the modern world in the first great wave of globalisation in the 19th century. India was at its heart and a major beneficiary of the new openness and cosmopolitanism. The Empire offered free movement of capital and labour and relatively free trade in goods. A Bombay mill-owner could set up with borrowed British capital and the latest machinery and skilled foremen from Manchester. India’s first cotton mills opened in 1851, preceding Japan by 20 years and China by 40. They were soon beating Manchester at its own game, supplying 76 per cent of India’s textile demand by 1945.

    Not surprisingly, thriving merchant communities strongly backed the Company during the 1857 revolt, and the smooth supply of crucial goods from the ports helped turn the tide against the rebels. According to economic historian Tirthankar Roy of the London School of Economics: ‘The Indian merchant saw the Raj to be a force working for the kind of capitalism in which they had built a stake, a better bet than the remnants of Mughal feudal warlords who led the other side.’ British Indian cities, thanks to public and private endowments, soon sported some of the world’s best municipal services and world-class educational and medical institutions.

    Far from becoming a dumping ground for British products, India maintained a trade surplus with Britain throughout the colonial period, and export earnings paid for the services bought in from abroad by both public and private sectors. True, 19th century British governments at home and in India were committed to economic laissez faire and free trade and did little to protect indigenous industries. Nevertheless, young Indian industries like textiles and steel were given tariff protection during the world depression in the 1920s. From 1913 to 1938, Indian manufacturing output grew at an annual 5.6 per cent, well above the world average of 3.3 per cent and a growth rate we would welcome today.

    From the 1920s, the colonial government made India’s railways buy their entire rail requirement from Tata Steel at Jamshedpur. By 1935, India produced 50 per cent of all the world’s steel made outside Europe, North America and Japan. Firms like Tata Steel profited enormously from government contracts during both World Wars; and these profits were ploughed into new industries like sugar and paper. Between 1850 and 1940, employment in Indian factories went from near zero to two million, while per capita output of industrial goods rose by one-third, hardly a mark of de-industrialisation. India’s per capita industrial output at independence was higher than anywhere else in Asia except Japan, and more than half its exports were manufactures, not raw materials.

    Myth number five is that British governments, companies and officers drained off India’s wealth through foreign remittances of their ill-gotten gains. The actual fact is that by 1913, colonial India had attracted an enormous and very welcome injection of £380 million (£23 billion in today’s money) as inward investment by British capital. In the same year, the so-called ‘Home Charges’, the money remitted back to Britain by government and private transfers, amounted to the comparatively tiny sum of £11 million. Economists recognise that all foreign capital comes at a cost of foreign remittances. Calculated as an annual return on British investments in India, the Home Charges amounted to an average of only 3.4 per cent, a far lower return than British capital could have earned in world markets at the time. Amounting to an annual average of only 1.5 per cent of India’s national income, such remittances were hardly a drain of resources.

    ‘The so-called drain,’ writes Tirthankar Roy, to whose research I owe many of these figures, ‘was also a payment for skills, and it is impossible to imagine an economy short of skills dealing with the world without having to buy skills from abroad.’ Ironically, World War II allowed India to reverse the flow of remittances, with the imperial government paying New Delhi handsomely for the deployment of Indian troops abroad. The result was that at independence, the Reserve Bank of India held the enormous sterling balance of over £1 billion (£36 billion in today’s money), a golden handshake if ever there was one.

  221. Malla says:
    @Satish Bendigiri

    nd religious beliefs which culminated into higher and lower class fight to gain superiority and this played a part in the ease with which both the Mughals and the British managed to dominate India.

    Maybe but small European armies formed of a mixture of Indian and European soldiers led by European officers were regularly beating Indian Native armies, both Hindu and Islamic, 10 times their size. The first such incident was when a French Army defeated a much larger native army, nearly 10 times their size in South India and the rest is history.
    Of course many native armies like the Marathas and Mughal armies had Europeans in them mostly as artillery officers and European armies had mostly Indian sepoys.

    superiority and this played a part in the ease with which both the Mughals and the British managed to dominate India.

    The Mughals were not the only Islamic rulers, before them there was the Delhi Sultanate. Indeed Babur, the Prince of Fergana Valley, Uzbekistan, Central Asia, defeated Emperor Ibrahim Lodi, a Muslim ruler, in Panipat to form the new Timurid ruling dynasty in India.

    Robert Clive beat the French at the Battle of Plassey in 1757.

    Colonel Robert Clive defeated the Nawab of Bengal, Siraj ud-Daulah, who had a lot of French support (Officer Monsieur de St. Frais) in the Battle of Plassey.

    BTW Marwari Mercantile Bankers supported the British East India Company against the Nawab and played a part in the British victory.
    Sir Penderel Moon (The British Conquest and Dominion of India) says “some influential Hindu bankers in Murshidabad, alienated by Siraj ud Daulah’s violence and caprice, had secretly informed the British that they were meditating his removal“. These influential bankers were Oswal Jains, led by a man whose title was Jagat Seth, meaning “banker to the world”. His name is not known for certain, but it might have been Madhav Rai. The Muslim rulers had no confidence in running the economy and usually trusted the Hindu mercantile castes to do this. Akbar’s economist Todar Mal was Punjabi Khatri.

    The problem the Oswal Jains had with Nawab Siraj ud Daulah was that, only in his 20s, he was not mature or knowledgeable. He did not understand interest or finance, and did not apply the rule of law. He preferred rule by whim. He became violent when it was learnt that he had no money to pay salaries to the army. Sir Penderel writes: “He is said to have struck Jagat Seth, the leading Hindu Marwari banker of Bengal, in the face and threatened him with circumcision… It seems to have been Jagat Seth who took the lead in approaching the English for help in overthrowing him.”

    A Punjabi Khatri Merchant and a friend of the Jagat Seth, Amin Chand cemented the deal between Colonel Robert Clive and Mir Jafar (Syed Mir Jafar Ali Khan Bahadur ), but then blackmailed the British East India Company saying he would tell Siraj ud Daulah unless he was paid ₹ 30 lakh.

    As a result of the war the Bengal treasury was forced to pay huge compensation, which further financed British expansion in India and allowed the British to usurp Mughal throne.

    The British “usurped” the Mughal Throne only after the Sepoy Mutiny. Many Mutineers had revolted in the name of Emperor of India, Bahadur Shah Zafar (Mirza Abu Zafar Siraj-ud-din Muhammad). Emperor Bahadur Shah, in his defense, stated later, his complete haplessness before the will of the sepoys. The sepoys apparently used to affix his seal on empty envelopes, the contents of which he was absolutely unaware. While the emperor may have been overstating his impotence before the sepoys, the fact remains that the sepoys had felt powerful enough to dictate terms to anybody. The eighty-two year old poet-king was harassed by the mutineers and was neither inclined to nor capable of providing any real leadership. After the defeat of the mutineers, Emperor Bahadur Shah Zafar was deposed leading to the end of the Mughal Empire. Queen Victoria then became the Empress of India. It was Benjamin Disraeli, Britain’s first Prime Minister of Jewish descent, who pushed for Queen Victoria be crowned as Empress of India. He pushed the Royal Titles Act 1876 through Parliament, so that Victoria took the title “Empress of India” from 1 May 1876. The new title was proclaimed at the Delhi Durbar of 1 January 1877.

    The Marathas had looted the rich lands of Bengal multiple times more in money than what the East India Company got.
    Most of India was conquered by the East India Company only after the Third Anglo Maratha War leading to a British Victory. Most of Indian territory by now (1700s) was defacto ruled by the Marathas, the Mughals were just a tittle heads.
    The Third Anglo Maratha War between Peshwa Baji Rao II versus Francis Edward Rawdon-Hastings, 1st Marquess of Hastings, Major-general Sir John Malcolm & Lieutenant-General Sir Thomas Hislop, 1st Baronet (of the Madras Army) led to a British victory and hence a large chunk of India came under British rule. And war was because of the Pindaris.
    The Pindaris were looters who rode with the main Maratha armies and they looted Indian villagers all across the country. They were a serious head ache for most Indians and they terrorized poor Indian peasants. They made a mistake of raiding (looting and killing) some villages in the Madras province under the protection of the British East India Company. Hence the British decided to annihilate these looter dacoits once and for all. And since the Pindaris were close to the Marathas, this led to the clash in between the Maratha and British Empires, leading to a Maratha defeat, formal end of the Maratha Empire and most of India coming under British East India Company rule as they absorbed most of the Maratha Empire. This also led to the end of Pindaris and for Indian villagers this was a very good thing.

    In 1599, before the East India Company was even formed, already the people of Great Britain had nearly twice the per capita income than the average people in India. Indian wages in grain was 70% of British wages and Indian wages in silver was only 17% of British wages.

  222. @Malla

    Calling others stupid and idiot reveals own level of stupidity and constitution which is made of foolishness, the brain which can be compared to an animal having tail which jumps from one branch to another branch of a tree. I would suggest you to read following to gain some knowledge so that it enters your thick head, if you have one.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/britain-stole-45-trillion-india-181206124830851.html

    https://www.businesstoday.in/current/economy-politics/this-economist-says-britain-took-away-usd-45-trillion-from-india-in-173-years/story/292352.html

    https://www.indiapost.com/the-great-loot-how-britain-stole-45-trillion-from-india/

    • Replies: @Malla
  223. Malla says:
    @Satish Bendigiri

    Oh please all, that commie, Usta Patnaik figure has been debunked in the video below. Even most of Shashi Tharoor’s b.s has been debunked.

    “European Powers looting Colonies” theory was originally a commie theory to explain why advanced countries like Britain, France, Belgium, Netherlands etc… were not turning commie. It was a theory to explain Britain and other European countries, not India or Africa.
    Sorry For My Harsh words BTW.

    • Replies: @Satish Bendigiri
  224. Malla says:
    @Satish Bendigiri

    For the next hundred years, the EIC arranged the infrastructure to facilitate trade for their own benefit.

    Lets start with the railways.

    RAILWAYS IN BRITISH INDIA 1909

    Railways under British Rule

    The first line of railway in India was finished in 1853. At the end of March, 1924, India had a total length of 38,039 miles of open system, which in 1925 carried over four and a half times as many passengers per mile of steel as did the railways of the United States.

    When America built her railways, she had not sufficient means to do so without borrowing. Consequently she borrowed from Europe, largely from Great Britain, about half the money that built her railway system, well content to pay what it cost in view of benefits expected from the opening of the country. These costs, in the normal course, continued until about 1914. When India built her railways, she also failed to find the money at home; yet in her case not because money was lacking, but because Indian baniya capitalists would lend only at huge rates of interest. Consequently India borrowed from her cheapest market, London, practically all the money that built her railways, paying from 2.5 to 5 per cent., with an average of 3.5 per cent, on the loans–the lowest rates that the world knew.

    Beyond the railheads ran the British-built network of good highroads, speeding motor traffic where earlier only bullock carts alone used to creep and wallow.

    Other practical uses of the railways were equalization of prices, in opening of markets, or in development of trade with its consequent increase of individual prosperity and of Government revenues.

    The following figures as of the year 1925 are based on statistics contained in The Statesman’s Year Book of 1926:

    Mileage open per 1,000 square miles of territory in
    British India – 21
    Argentina – 19
    USA – 88
    Canada – 15

    Number of passengers carried per mile of open railway
    British India – 15,834
    Argentina – 5,966
    USA – 3,550
    Canada – 814

    Tons of goods carried per mile of open railway
    British India – 2,785
    Argentina – 2042
    USA – 8,277
    Canada – 2,019

    Total value of imports and exports carried per mile of
    open railway
    British India – $56,929
    Argentina – $73,092
    USA – $33,116
    Canada – $35,647

    At 1947, when India exited the British Empire, she had 53,596 kms of British built railways, post Independence Indian government added only 11,004 kilometres rail network after 1947. India’s rail network rose from 53,596 route kilometres as of 1947 to 64,600 kilometres in 2016.

    COMPARE AND CONTRAST WITH RAILWAYS IN CHINA

    China an ancient civilization, was never totally colonized by any European powers or Japan, though the Japanese came closest in doing so. There were only spheres of influence of Britain, France, Russia, Portugal, Netherlands, Germany, United States and Japan but China an ancient civilization was never fully conquered and colonized. The Manchu Qing dynasty sat on the throne of China.

    RAILWAYS IN CHINA DURING THE SAME PERIOD

    Most of these railway lines were designed and built by Europeans, Americans and the Japanese

    The British built the Shanghai-Nanjing Railway (1905-1908) and Kowloon-Canton Railway (completed 1911). The French built the Sino-Vietnamese Railway (1904–10), an 855 km 1,000 mm (3 ft 3 3⁄8 in) line to connect Kunming with Vietnam, French Indochina/Vietnam. The Germans built the Jiaoji Railway in Shandong Province. British and German industrialists jointly built the Tianjin–Pukou Railway. The Americans built the Canton – Sam Shui Railway in Guangdong in 1902-04. Czarist Russia built the China Eastern Railway (1897-1901) and the Southern Manchuria Railway to Port Arthur. To prevent domination by bigger powers, the Qing Court gave the rights to the Lugouqiao-Hankou Railway to Belgians. The Imperial Japanese built the Chao Chow and Swatow Railway (1904–06).

    Some networks however were built by the Chinese themselves
    The Beijing-Zhangjiakou Railway built from 1905–09, was the first railway to be designed and built indigenously. The chief engineer was Zhan Tianyou, who is known as the Father of China’s Railways. The Shanghai-Hangzhou Railway, 189 km in length and completed in 1909, was financed by the provincial governments of Jiangsu and Zhejiang.

    At 1947, when India exited the British Empire, she had 53,596 kms of British built railways as against China in 1945 who had only 27,000 kms of railways even though China is three times larger in size than India.
    By 1948, the number of usable kilometers of rail in China was estimated at only 8,000 km due to the Chinese Civil War. The Communists actively sabotaged rail lines to disrupt the ruling Nationalists (Kuomintang), and the Nationalists scavenged lesser used railways in order to repair the most important ones.

    INDIA AT 1945-47 HAD A MAJOR ECONOMIC/ INDUSTRIAL ADVANTAGE OVER CHINA ONLY BECAUSE OF THE BRITISH.

    • Replies: @Malla
  225. Malla says:
    @Malla

    THE LARGEST IRRIGATION PROJECT IN THE WORLD WAS IN BRITISH INDIA

    The evul British harmed India by building the largest irrigation project in the World at that time in the Punjab. Larger than anything in the United States, Russia/ Soviet Union, China or Brazil at that time. Built between 1886 to 1940.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punjab_Canal_Colonies

    The Punjab Canal Colonies is the name given to parts of western Punjab which were brought under cultivation through the construction of canals and agricultural colonisation during the British Raj. Between 1885 and 1940, nine canal colonies were created in the inter-fluvial tracts east of the Beas and Sutlej and west of the Jhelum rivers. The Punjab underwent an agricultural revolution as arid subsistence production was replaced by the commercialised production of huge amounts of wheat, cotton and sugar.[1] In total, over one million Punjabis settled in the new colonies, relieving demographic pressures in central Punjab.[2]

    …snip….

    In the 19th century, the vast majority of the population was settled in the fertile regions of central and eastern Punjab. In the western Punjab rainfall was too low for large scale agriculture and resulting in large tracts of barren land.[3] Most of this land had been assigned as Crown land and lay unused.[5] In the 1880s the British Punjab administration of Charles Umpherston Aitchison began the process of engineering a vast irrigation scheme in the mostly uninhabited wastelands. The two stated motives for the project were:[6]

    To relieve the pressure of population upon the land in those districts of the Province where the agricultural population has already reached or is fast approaching the limit which the land available to agriculture can support and to colonise the area in question with well-to-do yeomen of the best class of agriculturists, who will cultivate their own holdings with the aid of their families and the usual menials, but as much as possible without the aid of tenants, and will constitute healthy agricultural communities of the best Punjab type.

    The British Indian government hoped to “create villages of a type superior in comfort and civilisation to anything which had previously existed in the Punjab”,[7] which in turn would increase productivity.[8] This increased productivity would then boost revenues for the government. To finance this ambitious project, capital was raised through the sale of governmental bonds in Britain, offering investors the chance to benefit from the interest charges remitted by the provincial government.[9]

    …snip….

    To improve the economic position and standard of living amongst Punjabi agriculturalists, the British Indian government had passed a series of farmer friendly measures. The Punjab Land Alienation Act, 1900 removed the zamindar’s right to sell or mortgage his land without the approval of the district officer. These officers usually only approved a zamindar’s request if he belonged to a tribe designated as an agricultural tribe by the government. The restrictions were designed to halt the flow of land outside of the agricultural community, and prevent further indebtedness towards moneylenders by curtailing cultivator’s credit. Although the Act drew protests from the commercial tribes and money-lenders, they were unable to garner support from the cultivators whose interests had been protected. In the following years, encouraged by the lack of agitation further farmer friendly measures were introduced by the British Indian Government, such as the Punjab Pre-Emption Act which stated agriculturalists had first claim on any land sold by a villager.[4]

    …snip….

    The Punjab, despite being only 9.7 per cent of the total area of British India, had by 1931 9,929,217 acres irrigated by canals colonies, the largest area in British India, and representing 46 per cent of the total land irrigated by canals. This was two and a half times greater than the Madras Presidency, second in this category.[55] The canal irrigated area in the Punjab increased from 3 million acres in 1885 to 14 million acres by the end of the British Raj in 1947.[56]

    The canal colonies acted as a primary industrialising agent in the British Punjab. By 1921 the proportion of the population supported by agriculture was lesser in the colony districts relative to in the non-colony districts, because a significant population in the colony districts was engaged in industrial pursuits. For example, in Lyallpur alone 326 ginning factories emerged to serve her own cotton fields.[57] By converting barren land into productive agricultural land, the British Punjabi government was able to increase export output and maximise revenue through taxes on the increased produce. The increased supply of produce in turn meant investment was needed in the road and rail network to transport the goods to market. The larger size of the holdings in the colonies, together with improvements to the transport infrastructure and other marketing facilities had a large positive impact on the settler’s income.[58]

    Prior to the establishment of the colonies, many farmers in the Punjab were in debt to money-lenders. However, with the increased incomes in the colonies, the proportion of debt owed to traditional money-lenders was considerably less than in other non-colony areas.[57] Furthermore, by obtaining the grants at nominal prices, the settlers were able to enjoy the vast capital appreciation of their land as it grew increasingly productive. By the 1920s, thirty years after the establishment of the Chenab Colony, the average land price in Lyallpur was Rs. 1200 providing a capital gain of 9,900 percent.[59]

    A significant beneficiary of the colonisation was the city of Lyallpur, originally named after Sir James Broadwood Lyall who pioneered the Chenab colony. At the time of the British annexation in 1849 it was a barren wasteland, and by 1891 the region had a population density of mere 7 persons per square mile. It was characterised by nomadic tribes and notorious criminals, with the Sandal Bar area being named after the Chuhra bandit Sandal. By 1901, in just a decade, the population had reached 187 persons per square mile, was 301 in 1921 and 927 in 1998.[60] Lyallpur, renamed Faisalabad in the 1970s, is currently the third most prosperous city of Pakistan in terms of GDP per capita.[61]

    • Replies: @Malla
  226. Malla says:
    @Malla

    Evul British built irrigation canal networks in India to fight Famine

    http://www.yourarticlelibrary.com/irrigation/irrigation-development-in-india-during-british-rule/60643
    Irrigation Development in India During British Rule

    During British rule, the canals of Ancient India were subsequently remodeled, renovated and converted into perennial canals in the first half of the nineteenth century. This was followed by a large number of diversion works with extensive canal systems. Important among them are the Upper Ganga Canal, the Upper Bari-Doab Canal, the Godavari delta system, the Krishna delta system, the Sirhind canal on the Sutlej River which were constructed towards the middle of the nineteenth century.
    Then started an era of storage reservoirs. The storage dams like the Khadakwasala near Pune with the Mutha canal system and the Periyar dam in the erstwhile Travancore State to divert the west flowing Periyar waters towards the east were constructed in the later half of the nineteenth century.

    During the closing decades of the nineteenth century the country was stalked by successive famines. It led to setting up of a series of Famine Commissions. As a follow up, schemes like the Betwa canal in Uttar Pradesh, the Nira left bank canal in Maharashtra and the Rushikulya system in Orissa were executed.

    At the turn of the twentieth century First Irrigation Commission was set up to take stock of the existing irrigation facility and to make recommendations for its furtherance. As a result of the findings of the Irrigation Commission special attention was given to the development of irrigation in the country.

    The Godavari canal, the Pravara canal and the Nira right bank canal in Maharashtra, the Sarda canal in Uttar Pradesh and the Gang canal in Rajasthan were some of the important works constructed in the pre-independence period of the twentieth century…….

    • Replies: @Malla
  227. Malla says:
    @Malla

    MORE “EVUL” THINGS BRITISH DID TO INDIANS

    Sir Mark Cubbon and the development of the State of Mysore /Karnataka

    The Hindu Wodeyars were reinstated in Mysore throne by the British after the fall of Tipu Sultan followed by the British taking control again in 1831. Finally power was handed back to Wodeyar in 1881.

    But what happened between 1831 and 1881? The credit goes to this gifted longest serving commissioner, Sir Mark Cubbon, of Mysore state from 1834 (now Karnataka). This was when Mysore state started developing into a power house.

    1.He made Bangalore the capital. This is not the Bangalore you see today but imagine a run down village. Tremendous amount of development went in and Bangalore became a modern city.

    2.Construction of over one thousand miles of roads divided into four classes: Trunk, Main, Taluk and Village.

    3.Hundreds of dams

    4.Coffee production

    5.Improvements in the tax and revenue systems that made Mysore state super efficient and rich.

    6. Railways, Post and telegraph etc.

    Power was handed back to Chamaraja Wodeyar groomed as a child by the British in 1881. The British commissioners were based in the state and progress continued unabated. Wodeyar went on to do great things for Mysore state

    The glorious Cubbon Park (with statues of Mark Cubbon) and Cubbon road are dedicated to him in Bangalore for his outstanding contribution. The credit for development of Mysore state (now Karnataka) clearly goes to the British and Wodeyars. Unfortunately, carried away by nationalism, Tipu Sultan is the one remembered in India even though he was a tyrant and contributed nothing in comparison.

    Cubbon park has around 68 varieties and 96 species with about 6,000 plants. Indigenous species such as Jackfruit, Cassia fistula, Peepal, Ashoka and exotic species such as Araucaria, Bamboo, Castanospermum australe, Grevillea robusta, Milletia, Peltophorum Schinus molle, Mahagony, Tabebuia can be seen.

    For more information about the amazing development by Sir Mark Cubbon in the Mysore state refer the book “The administration of Mysore under Sir Mark Cubbon (1834-1861) – Kasi Nageswara Venkatasubba Sastri”

    Orissa state, Education and T E Ravenshaw

    Orissa came under British rule in 1803 neglected in Education by earlier rulers (Maratha and Mughals). Thomas Edward Ravenshaw who was the commissioner argued for modern schools in Orissa state.

    Welcome to Ravenshaw University
    Three colleges were named after him for his outstanding work.
    They were the Ravenshaw Collegiate School, the Ravenshaw Girls’ School and the Ravenshaw College, which has now become a University. The point to note is that this honour was bestowed on Ravenshaw only after he completed his 12 year tenure in the state and left for another station, and this was done not at the behest of the government, but on account of the goodwill of the people of Orissa.

    Education received the maximum attention when this region came under British rule. Developments were done in cities of Cuttack and Bhubaneswar. The latter was redesigned by employing the services of Otto H. Königsberger.

  228. Anon[279] • Disclaimer says:
    @Malla

    Hindus have given the Muslims almost everything.

    They gave up one third of their country during the partition. They let 200 million Muslims stay in India. They then let in 30 million illegals from Bangladesh.

    Even Whites aren’t this stupid and naive as Hindus.

    India is the worst possible example of protected borders.

    • Replies: @Malla
  229. Anon[279] • Disclaimer says:
    @Malla

    America deported 350,000 illegals last year. How many did India deport?

    • Replies: @Malla
  230. Malla says:
    @Satish Bendigiri

    I suggest you read this book

    The Making of India: The Untold Story of British Enterprise by Kartar Lalvani where the author complies information about how the British single handedly made up modern Industrial India.

    The story of The Making of India begins in the seventeenth century, when a small sea-faring island, one tenth the size of the Indian subcontinent, despatched sailing ships over 11,000 miles on a five-month trading journey in search of new trading opportunities. In the end they helped build a new nation. The sheer audacity and scale of such an endeavour, the courage and enterprise, have no parallel in world history. This book is the first to assess in a single volume almost all aspects of Britain’s remarkable contribution in providing India with its lasting institutional and physical infrastructure, which continues to underpin the world’s largest democracy in the twenty-first century.

    The book asserts India’s infrastructural development owes a great deal to the British, Dr Kartar Lalvani has come up with The Making of India: The Untold Story of British Enterprise. To provide India with a lasting civil and physical infrastructure, how the first pioneers used girders for more than 100,000 bridges, tracks for 45,000 miles of railways and countless pieces of heavy machinery.

    Informative, factually accurate, with a wealth of fascinating material Dr Lalvani (who took 15 years to write this book) through his book addresses and opens these very debates, which most Indians in the garb of patriotic fervour decide to ignore or not to address.

    What Dr Lalvani brings to the fore is the acknowledgement of the fact that there was a certain public decorum under the British Raj and there were benefits for the colonies they ruled in particular India.

    Dr Lalvani rightly points out it was under the British rule that Indians finally started to come together for work and as a community – irrespective of religion, caste or creed. It was the British who created the institutions we are proud of today – such as the Indian Army, railways, post and telegraph. And we continue to draw from those very liberal tenets and values of equality irrespective of what we are born as. It is another point of contention that as Indians we tend to wrongly attribute the worse cases of bureaucratic red tape to the British but in reality it is more likely a result of the corruption in public life post independence.

    He convincingly points out that there were less riots or conflicts based on caste and religion during the 200 years rule of British India than independent India. All minorities felt safer or were given safety during the British rule across the Undivided India.

    The British-built bridges, canals, telegraph, universities, public utilities, sewers and grand buildings have all endured and created a pathway for today’s modern democratic India.

    When the British arrived India was a fragmented country. The British helped build a new nation and the audacity and skills of this endured.

    They also established the first universities and went on to found the first museums and libraries unknown to India before, engineering, medical colleges and hospitals.

    The British united and restored a fractured India – take for instance the battered and devastated city of Delhi that the British inherited in 1803 in contrast to the glorious New Delhi the restored capital of the unified progressive new India as left by the Raj in 1947.

  231. Malla says:
    @Anon

    America was racially 90% White in 1960, now it is down to 60%. How much has the South Asian racial component percentage of India reduced?

    • Replies: @Anon
  232. Malla says:
    @Anon

    BTW I am not against stopping illegal immigrants to India. ILLEGAL immigrants are just that, illegals. It is within the law to stop them and deport them. I support illegal Bangladeshis be sent back.

    I was just pointing out that in brown countries too many are concerned and opposed to illegal immigrants. In one more post, I had written about how Ghana and Nigeria had deported each other’s illegals decades ago. Leftard Whites consider any stopping of immigrants as “racist” and want open borders.

    And to be frank even tho, I am against Hinduvadis and want good relations in between Indian Muslims and Indian Hindus, I DO NOT want the Muslim population percentage in India to rise much further. If you ask me frankly. 14 % is good enough.

    • Replies: @Anon
  233. Anon[279] • Disclaimer says:
    @Malla

    Muslim component has grown quickly and over one third of the land has been stolen by Pakistan and Bangladesh.

    Hindus were mass genocided in Bangladesh during the war.

    Kashmiri Pandits have been pushed out of their homeland.

    America hasn’t lost an inch of land. It stole land from Mexico and Native tribes.

    What has India done in response to Muslim aggression? Almost nothing. Under Congress, Hindus have lost a lot.

    America killed millions of Muslims in Iraq, Afghan, Syria, etc. For no reason. Whites never criticize this.

    Modi killed maybe 1,000 Muslims in Gujarat, but leftist retard Hindus are in an uproar even today.

    Abdul Kalam was the BJP candidate. BJP is not Hindu supremacist.

  234. Anon[279] • Disclaimer says:
    @Malla

    White countries have strong economies that need lots of labor.

    Eastermln Euro countries have weak economies and have avoided saturation by immigrants.

    If the Western Euro and American economies collapse, it’ll be easier to deport illegals. As there won’t be jobs and welfare for them.

    Western countries are rich and attract immigrants like insects to sugar. No more sugar, no more immigrants.

    India is so poor that other than Banglas, nobody wants to go there. Even Africans don’t like India, as it’s more competitive than their homelands and women are difficult to get. More crowded too.

    It’s why Ukraine is all-White, but England is 20% non-white.

    • Replies: @Malla
  235. Malla says:
    @Anon

    Hindus were mass genocided in Bangladesh during the war.

    True.

    Kashmiri Pandits have been pushed out of their homeland.

    True and justice must be done for them but Muslims have been brutally treated by the Indian Govt and the Maharaja of Kashmir before that.

    America hasn’t lost an inch of land. It stole land from Mexico and Native tribes.

    Americans stole from Native Americans does not mean Indians, Arabs and everybody in the world has a right to it. Black Bantus stole land from Khoi San and Pygmies who owned most of Africa. Try moving a million Indians in one shot to Malawi and the locals will go all Idi Amin in a few years.

    What has India done in response to Muslim aggression? Almost nothing. Under Congress, Hindus have lost a lot.

    America killed millions of Muslims in Iraq, Afghan, Syria, etc. For no reason. Whites never criticize this.

    Indians invaded the land of the North East, who never wanted to be a part of India. How many Indians know this or criticize this. India sneakily engineered the take over of the independent kingdom of Sikkim. India is not innocent.
    America kill millions of muslims because America is run by Jews. Jews have adopted the policy of “invade the World and invite the World”. This way they skrew up both their enemies, WHITE people and Muslims. Jews believe they are destined to rule over lower goyims like us.

    White countries have strong economies that need lots of labor.

    What rubbish, White people had all the labour before WW2, suddenly after WW2 they “need labour”. Japan and S.Korea have a much lower birth rates than many Western European countries but immigration there is very small. If Japan can do it, so can the UK or France.

    Western countries are rich and attract immigrants like insects to sugar. No more sugar, no more immigrants.

    The Western governments can easily stop immigrants from coming in. If the Western government wanted, the USA COULD Have remained 90% White and Britain and Germany 99.6% White. You do not leave your sugar in your house outside for insects to consume.

    Check out who pushed the 1965 law to allow large scale immigration in the USA. Jews. Do your research. Jews have repeatedly played a big part in pushing multiracialism-multiculturalism in WESTERN COUNTRIES. Jews are themselves outsiders, they do not belong in Europe, Europeans are native to Europe. JEWS WANT THE White race to race mix and disappear. Jewish controlled Media regularly pushes interracial relationships in between Whites and others in advertising, movies, serials and even in porn.
    Non White migration to the West HAS NOTHING to do with need of labour but everything to do with Jews pushing slow White genocide.

  236. @Malla

    I also used unparliamentary language so let us forget and forgive each other for calling names and concentrate on the subject. I went through all your detailed replies and got a great deal of knowledge. This type of brain storming indeed helps to broaden one’s vision about a subject which is controversial for many on a superficial level but once one delves deep into it it helps to reveal new nformation and depicts hitherto hidden facts which turns myth into reality and vice versa. Had British not ruled us, Shashi wouldn’t be able to learn English and argue with them in their own language and on their own soil. At least on this one point he should thank British immensely for his gift of gab. Thank you.

    • Replies: @Malla
  237. Malla says:
    @Satish Bendigiri

    Thanks Satish, you are a very rational, humble and civilized person, far more civilized than me. It was great discussing things with you.

    • Replies: @Satish Bendigiri
  238. @Malla

    No. I may be as civilized and humble as you. What I had said was from a tit for tat attitude. Mahatma Gandhi had said that if someone hits you on a left cheek, offer him your right cheek but that is too meek and amounts to subjugation, a type of vassal to a king. But the irony is the same Mahatma swore on Bhagvadgita, the revered iconic religious book, which was born on the battleground! Just before the mother of all the greatest wars!

    Of late, we are seeing the decaying of harmony, brotherhood and social etiquettes, which is evident from the new crop of young crowds engaging in showing rudeness and devil may care attitude that has almost become their second nature. Some may raise a question here on this platform, ” what is so great about ethics and etiquettes?” because if you read arguments and answers here you may realise that abuses are freely hurled at each other while an unstoppable competition to prove each other wrong continues. And such brilliant arguments, authenticated with painstaking research like you did while you cut me into pieces. Yes, it is required for a tumultuous brainstorming discussion to know and absorb hitherto unknown information but not at the cost of abusing each other. The abuses leave an indelible stain on the brilliant piece of information, like a dark spot on a snow-white shirt and that too exactly on a collar. It mars the beauty. I think even Ron Unz wouldn’t appreciate abuses.

    So when some one asks what is so great about étiquettes, the answer is not at all complicated. Simply said, it is a basic quality of civilized society. Any of these people who have pursued the subjects of human history, philosophy, and anthropology, as is clear from their writings, will know that all the civic societies around the world and from time immemorial have such formal rules, even at such basic observance such as eating and dying, even when the ultimate result is death. The urge to create bedlam and become belligerent and cantankerous is equivalent to quenching the thirst of animalistic behavior because the war starts in the brain. Before the dawn of the civilization, this type of animal instinct was prevalent at the primitive stage but then we see etiquettes during even cannibalistic rituals, like chanting and dancing around the human tied to the post of sacrifice for killing and eating his/her flesh. Cannibals first engage in the religious rituals, before putting the human morsel in their mouth. Although It is primarily bad to say that hypocrisy is awful, it helps to express human feelings in a way that others would agree. Some often say it is pointless to attend a funeral when attending a movie could have been a good proposition, but 9/11 had changed all that feeling and people had realized to respect death.

    We have come long long way and you and me are far far superior than even Kings of medieval ages who were crowned to take care of their subjects but literally killed them to quench their thirst for blood, not sparing even their own child such as Vlad the impaler, Aurangzeb, Ivan the Terrible, and more recently, Pol Pot, Mao Zedong, Joseph Stalin, and ilks of them.

    You and I may not be Kings and Queens but we are definitely Monarchs while observing etiquettes. You and me and civilized people like us are no less than Alexander the Great who, when he captured King Porus at the border of Sindhu Ghati and asked him how he should be treated, he ( Porus) said ” …as a king treats another king….” and Alexander, impressed by his royal attitude, restored him back as a king. You and me and people like us value human dignity on basic level. Our parents and their parents taught us that value, respecting each other irrespective of creed, class, caste,and colour and we are observing this legacy. It is a genetic chain we have which perhaps, nothing wrong in saying, boasts of Alexanderian attitude.

    So let me say I have gained so much from you, unbeatable pieces of information, backed by research and bibliography, which wouldn’t have been possible to search elsewhere. Thank you so much.

    • Replies: @Malla
  239. Malla says:
    @Satish Bendigiri

    And thank you very much Satish for this most excellent of posts. I agree with everything you wrote. Especially this sentence “You and I may not be Kings and Queens but we are definitely Monarchs while observing etiquettes.” Never came across such a great thought before.

    • Replies: @Satish Bendigiri
  240. @Malla

    I reciprocate. Take utmost care of yourself and your family and stay safe from Corona virus. Follow the guidelines in to to. Let us fight and eradicate this pandemic. See you soon.

    • Replies: @Malla
  241. Malla says:
    @Satish Bendigiri

    Take care of yourself and your family too. The virus came at a very bad time of our country when the economy was already not doing great (Yes bank collapse for example). I hope most businesses in India somehow survive and job losses are at a minimum. Delhi is in lockdown mode. Let us fight this virus and its economic impact together.
    Anyways best of luck.

    • Replies: @Jatt Arya
  242. Jatt Arya says:
    @Malla

    ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੁ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਸਿੰਘ ਸੁ, ਪੂਰਣ ਹਰਿ ਅਵਤਾਰ ।
    Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji is the full ‘Avatar’ of Hari.

    ਰਚਯੋ ਪੰਥ ਭਵ ਮੈ ਪ੍ਰਗਟ, ਦੋ ਬਿਧ ਕੋ ਵਿਸਤਾਰ ।
    Creating the Panth in this world, [the panth] has two forms.

    ਏਕਨ ਕੇ ਕਰ ਖੜਗ ਦੈ, ਭੁਜ ਬਲ ਬਹੁ ਬਿਸਤਾਰ ।
    One [form] holds a Kharag in hand, with powerful hands, they spread [through the nation].

    ਪਾਲਨ ਭੂਮੀ ਕੋ ਕਰਯੋ, ਦੁਸਟਨ ਮੂਲ ਉਖਾਰ ।
    Protect the nation they destroyed the roots of the enemies.

    ਔਰਨ ਕੀ ਪਿਖ ਵਿਮਲ ਮਤਿ, ਦੀਨੋ ਪਰਮ ਵਿਵੇਕ ।
    The other form is the Nirmala [viml] ideology, which gives the highest wisdom.

    ਨਿਰਮਲ ਭਾਖੇ ਜਗਤ ਤਿਹ, ਹੇਰੈ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਸੁ ਏਕ ।
    The world calls one a Nirmala, whom only sees the one Braham [in all].

    https://www.manglacharan.com/post/guru-gobind-singh-ji-moksh-panth-prakash

    Brits tried to suppress Sikhi which is the next conceptualization of Indian nationhood.

    Philosophy decides everything else a nation does as the current pride parades in London show.

    So ultimately they were wrong..

  243. Jatt Arya says:

    Meena ur a love jihadi slut.

    Inter caste marriage is against Dharma even Sikh rehat says it let alone marrying melech.

    Muslim have reputation for not moving out or slaughtering animals on EID.
    Furthermore, why pollute your property with beef eaters?

    Talha with 5 Singhs we’ll end your whole Panth yet you need a company just for stick-bearers in Delhi? LOL.

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