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As Cold War Tensions Escalate, What Are Governments Trying to Hide?
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The new Cold War launched by the West against China and Russia is escalating by the day. In a single week, the Kremlin has been unmasked trying to discover the secrets of Britain’s pursuit of a vaccine against coronavirus and revelations are promised about covert Russian interference in British politics. Boris Johnson made a U-turn on Huawei, announcing that it is to be kicked out of participation in the 5G network because it poses a threat to British security, though a curiously slow-burning one since they will only be evicted over seven years.

The US may put the widely used Chinese video app TikTok on a blacklist that would prevent Americans from using it. The administration is considering using the 1977 International Emergency Economic Powers Act in order to penalise TikTok as “an unusual and extraordinary threat” to US security. President Trump says he is considering banning the app in response to the way China handled the coronavirus epidemic.

This is a clue to the prime motive for Trump to ramp up the Cold War against China, which is his determination to win a second term in the White House by diverting voters’ attention from his catastrophic handling of the pandemic. “Don’t defend Trump – attack China,” is the advice of a leaked 57-page memo circulated among Republican Senatorial candidates in April. It suggested that Republican politicians should blame China for starting the epidemic by allowing the virus to escape from a laboratory in Wuhan, lying about it and hoarding medical equipment needed to treat the sick.

A striking feature of the US and British diplomatic offensive against China is how little criticism or even discussion it has provoked in any quarter in the US and Britain, even from those whose normal knee-jerk reaction is to denounce anything said or done by Trump or Johnson. This may be because these critics are genuinely horrified by undoubted Chinese oppression of the Uighurs, proposed imposition of dictatorial rule in Hong Kong, and assertions of military power in the South China Sea and on the Chinese-Indian frontier.

As during the original Cold War in the late 1940s and 1950s, critics can be conveniently dismissed as Communist sympathisers or dupes. Unsurprisingly, Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden is responding to the confrontation with China by demanding that the US should take an even tougher stance towards Beijing, while the Democratic Party establishment are ever hopeful that their prolonged campaign to portray Trump as the creature of Vladimir Putin’s Russia will take fire and do him serious damage at the polls.

As with Trump’s claim that China is ultimately responsible for the lethal debacle of America’s handling of the coronavirus epidemic, I have always thought that Hillary Clinton’s claim that she lost the 2016 presidential election because of Russian interference was absurd. Every history of her disastrous campaign shows that she lost for obvious self-inflicted reasons such as not campaigning enough in key northern states like Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Michigan – states that Trump won by a whisker.

The explanation for Boris Johnson’s U-turn over Huawei is simply explained by his inability to withstand American pressure as Britain leaves the EU and becomes even more dependent on the US. The kowtow to Washington over Huawei is the first of many such humiliations that come as an inevitable consequence of Brexit. Instead of getting back control of its destiny, Boris Johnson’s Britain will be more like Little Red Riding Hood lost in the global forest and menaced by every passing wolf.

There may be enough Chinese and Russian misbehaviour to justify retaliation, but threat-inflation has the great advantage of diverting attention from the British government’s incompetence in coping with the pandemic, a failure only excelled by the US and Brazil. Quite possibly Russian intelligence in the shape of cybergroup Cozy Bear has devoted great efforts to stealing secrets from western academia and pharmaceutical companies seeking to produce a vaccine against coronavirus. Less clear is why such information should be secret, unless these institutions and companies are planning to keep monopoly control over any vaccine produced, unlike the polio vaccine which the US made available to the world when first developed by American scientists at the height of the previous Cold War in the 1950s.

The heads and former heads of British intelligence agencies have been giving solemn interviews about how British security is threatened by Russian and Chinese machinations. The nature of this threat is never spelled out and intelligence chiefs can always claim that to do so would compromise confidential information that must not be disclosed.

I have always had doubts over the exalted claims about the excellence of British intelligence, which has become part of the British national myth. The saga of the breaking of the German Enigma codes in the Second World War has replaced the defeat of the Spanish Armada as a source of national pride and self-confidence.

Yet I have always wondered about those great British secrets that hostile foreign powers hunger to learn and must be protected at all costs.

British officials I encountered over the years during wars in the Middle East never seemed strikingly well-informed, but it was always possible that they were being singularly discreet or they were outside the loop of those privy to such vital information. Yet when the exhaustive Chilcott inquiry into British actions during the Iraq War was finally published in 2016, it concluded that Britain was poorly informed about almost everything that was going on in Iraq before and after it joined the US-led invasion. On the Libyan war in 2011, a scathing report by the House of Commons select committee on foreign affairs concluded that Britain lacked “accurate intelligence” or much idea of what was happening.

ORDER IT NOW

Four years later, the British government launched a bombing campaign against Isis in Syria amid much angry debate in which all sides took it for granted that Britain was in a position to do more than military posturing. But nine months into the much-debated bombing, a report of the House of Commons defence committee chaired by Dr Julian Lewis revealed that only 65 air raids had taken place over nine months because the RAF did not know where Isis was hiding. Nor was the government able to identify the 70,000 armed anti-Assad fighters on whose behalf Britain was supposedly intervening. No wonder that Johnson was so dismayed by the election of the experienced and critical Lewis as the new chair of the House of Commons intelligence and security committee, instead of Chris Grayling, his own notoriously blunder-prone nominee.

It is just possible to forget amid the threats and counter-threats of the new Cold War – and the intention is certainly that we should forget – that the world is failing to contain a pandemic that has killed half a million people. Never has global unity of effort been more necessary, whatever differences there may be, and its fragmentation more damaging. “How is it difficult for humans to unite and fight a common enemy that is killing people indiscriminately?” asked the director general of the World Health Organisation, Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, wiping away tears of frustration earlier this month. “Can’t we understand that the divisions and the cracks between us are an advantage for the virus?”

He got his answer from the Cold War warriors the world over this week, and it was a resounding “no”.

(Republished from The Independent by permission of author or representative)
 
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  1. Bro43rd says:

    Pretty good until the end, OMG THE VIRUS!!! It’s gonna kill us all. When will they stop pushing the ridiculous fear propaganda!

    • Replies: @mark tapley
  2. What Are Governments Trying to Hide?

    They are trying to hide the fact that they are helpless to avert the onrushing catastrophe. They know that the people must not sense that the various governments do not have the mandate of heaven, for once the people do face that fact they will revolt.

    • Replies: @Alden
  3. Bill H says:

    Again we have reference to Trump’s “catastrophic handling of the pandemic.” I cannot understand what that refers to.

    Was it that he closed our borders to travelers from China? Did that cause an enormous surge in Covid cases in the United States? Or was it that he waited too long to do so? Might that have been because Fauchi and the entire US Legislature was threatening mayhem if he did so? Really, what did Trump do, or not do, that was so catastrophic?

    The economic shutdowns, mask wearings and all such measures have been made, or not made, entirely by state governors. Not even by state legislators, but by “executive order” of the governors. Even seven months into this debacle, mandates are still issuing from the California governor, and the leislature remains silent on virus control measures. And we still call this nation a “democracy?”

    • Agree: Alden, Michael888
    • Replies: @Saggy
  4. JVC says:

    There may be enough Chinese and Russian misbehaviour to justify retaliation

    Chinese and Russian misbehaviour—pales when compared to the misbehaviour of the USG and it’s lapdogs. If anyone has earned a bit of retaliation it is them.

  5. > Kremlin has been unmasked trying to discover
    > the secrets of Britain’s pursuit of a
    > vaccine against coronavirus

    This is aimed against the probable outcome that Russia releases first an effective covid-vaccine. The western medical industry is so corrupt it can not invent anything new. – Any covid-vaccine that is not from big-pharma must be banned. At any cost.

    I think this is the first step towards admitting there will be no vaccine. – And the blame is on Russia and China. Of course.

    • Replies: @Alden
  6. critics are genuinely horrified by undoubted Chinese oppression of the Uighurs, proposed imposition of dictatorial rule in Hong Kong, and assertions of military power in the South China Sea and on the Chinese-Indian frontier

    Critics’ horror may be genuine but their pretexts are false. China has no motive for oppressing Uighurs or imposing dictatorial rule in Hong Kong, nor is there any evidence that she has done so. China’s response to both American-sponsored disturbances has been patient, pacific and bloodless. Uighurs and Honkies enjoy the same constitutional rights today that they have always enjoyed–and in the case of HK, vastly more than under British rule.

    As to assertions of military power in the South China Sea and on the Chinese-Indian frontier, both are within Chinese territory and unworthy of comment.

  7. It suggested that Republican politicians should blame China for starting the epidemic by allowing the virus to escape from a laboratory in Wuhan, lying about it and hoarding medical equipment needed to treat the sick.

    That is actually a clever strategy, _if_ diplomatic back-channels are used to whisper in China’s ear that “we don’t really mean it, just stupid domestic politics”.

    The problem is that China may not want to play along as the scapegoat, unless they get something in return….

    Please note that I am _not_ commenting on the truth or falsity of the allegations, just the strategy.

    We live in a world where everyone who gets near a microphone is probably a pathological liar–that is just a given.

  8. Is the UK blaming the Russians knowing full well that they are the kind of “Russians”

    that

    hang around in the middle of Londonistan

  9. It is dangerous to see the growing hostilities as a “new Cold War.” There are those in the corridors of power who think so, a perilous illusion. In the original Cold War Russia had a buffer zone and China was allied to the West for the last twenty years. Today Russia has no cordon sanitaire (though a huge nuclear arsenal) and China is unwilling/unable to reverse the economic advances made in recent decades. That is why the big powers are on course for world war, not a re-run of the Cold War: in retrospect a very peaceful and successful era.
    https://www.ghostsofhistory.wordpress.com/

  10. Alden says:

    I despise the entire all 4 generations of communist Cockburns. Find another cause. It’s not 1948 any more when American and Western European communists were applauding the take over of half Europe and China.

    Since the end of WW2, England has had a more socialist and more egalitarian socialist society than the Soviet Union ever had. It’s not exactly evil Capitalist colonialist England VS socialist progressive soviet Russia any more.

    Not that Soviet Russia was ever socialist and progressive . It was just gullible idiots like the Cockburns who believed it. I remember when Alexander Cockburn moved up to Pelican Bay Ca to try and foment a revolution among the most hard core vicious prisoners in the entire California state prison system. Didn’t work.

    If a Cockburn is the author, it’s all lies.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
  11. Alden says:
    @Ͳommy Ͳurmoil

    It’s called industrial espionage done all the time by every business and country in the world.

    • Replies: @mia
  12. Alden says:
    @another fred

    What covid hoax catastrophe? That oooo.2 of the population, average age in the 70s already sick with cancer , heart COPD died in 2020? I read the average of death in Italy was 81, an age when people die.

    It’s as much a hoax as climate change.

    • Replies: @another fred
  13. Saggy says: • Website
    @Bill H

    Again we have reference to Trump’s “catastrophic handling of the pandemic.” I cannot understand what that refers to.

    The US is now the epicenter of the pandemic, with ~70,000 new cases per day. So, you might wonder how in hell the most technically advanced nation in the world is doing the absolute worst in fighting CV. Even today Trump’s idiocy is off the charts, with the insistence on re-opening schools … here’s a little reminder of what a complete idiot Trump is ….


    • Replies: @Sya Beerens
  14. Cockburn is wrong on all counts. This fake flu was exposed in 2014 by a journalist who had the documents from The Rockefeller Foundation laying the whole thing out in 2012. I talked to a friend a couple of days ago who said her brother-in-law who had severe diabetes (blood sugar over 700) died of a brain hemorrhage. He was listed as a covid victim. This is what is happening everywhere. People are dying as usual but getting tagged as Covid 19. Remember CDC criminal Debra Brix said “we have told the hospitals to tag everything possible as covid 19.”

    If you have a fake virus then you have to have a fake test. The PCR test gives over 200 false positives, does not determine what type of Corona (cold) it is, and is not quantitative. It is a bogus test for a preplanned fake virus brought in now as a cover for the central bank looting of trillions for their friends on Wall St. This is just the latest version of several CDC touted flus. The AIDS scam can also be thrown in. See (Dr. Peter Duesburg on this particular hoax.). China is working with Jewmerica on the fake virus. Wuhan is a city of 11 million and has the worlds worst air pollution. 350,000 people in China die of pneumonia every year so it is easy to find “covid victims. Both countries want to get total surveillance and control of the livestock. China is the NWO model and are leading the pack with the social credit system.

    Several people have sent in videos of the “overflowing” hospitals that were practically empty. And what about this fake tents in Central Park? We really needed that hospital ship too didn’t we? When ever the Jew MSM jumps on something full force like WMD’s, global warming, I mean climate change, or a mass shooting like the government’s Sandy Hook or Los Vegas hoaxes or a fake Floyd then that is a big red flag.

    The Zionist criminal syndicate that runs most countries of any consequence has been working for a global totalitarian gov. for well over 100 years. They cannot make progress if people are relatively content in peaceful societies. They must have hatred, conflicts and war. That is the reason for the animosity generated against Russia and China. The old Soviet Union and communist China were both established by the Zionists, read Wall St. and the Bolshevik Revolution by Hoover Inst. researcher Anthony Sutton. One of the Zionists favorite tools for progress is the thesis-antithesis as taught by Hegelian Philosopher and Apostle of the Neo Cons, Leo Strauss. I believe that the plan will be for Russia and China to merge militarily and attack Jewmerica. This would provide the catastrophe needed to instigate martial law and remove all individual rights. The most important one is property rights. As Marx (Moses Mordecai Levy) stated, The abolition of property is the essence of communism (Judaism.) Once property rights have been eliminated all other rights will follow.

    On another front the Zionists are moving ahead with the destruction of the Middle East in accordance with the Yinnon plan for Greater Israel. That is the motive for the actions agains Iran and Syria as it was against Iraq and Libya. No amount of ?American blood ar treasure is too much for the Kazar thugs occupying Palestine.

    Most people do not see through these manufactured scams. They believe what they hear on the MSM. This is clear since most of them are buying into the fake virus. Another tool of the Zionists is the Republican Democrat paradigm that fools most of the goyim. They are both controlled at the top by the Zionists. It makes no difference wether the politician is left or right, Rep. or Dem. as long as they follow the aIPAC Zionist agenda.

  15. @Bro43rd

    The Zionists and the CDC Drug Co. will use the fake virus as long as they can get the stupid cucks to believe it.

  16. “This may be because these critics are genuinely horrified by undoubted Chinese oppression of the Uighurs, proposed imposition of dictatorial rule in Hong Kong, and assertions of military power in the South China Sea and on the Chinese-Indian frontier.” THAT in itself is China bashing, and a total load of bovine excrement! ALL countries have anti sedition laws. What part of HK is Chinese territory dont they understand. Xi should immediately revoke the ‘two systems’ principle and integrate HK as totally part of China as it should be not a hole to permit Western NGOs and other provocateurs to operate. Remember it was stolen from the Qing Dynasty in the 1840s. Urghurs are not opperssed. So its ‘oppression’ when you round up paid terrorists from Syria who come across the border from Afghanistan?

    • Replies: @mark tapley
  17. mia says:
    @Alden

    Yeah but in this case according to news and not the CNN variety mind you, Russia is first with the antidote, the vaccine, the English and the US anticipated that and is now desperately trying to take credit for it by claiming that Russia “stole it”. We can’t have anything positive to say about Russia now can we?

    Western regimes taking credit for Russian inventions or landbreaking events isn’t exactly something new. Who won the WW2 f.ex?

  18. I guess it’s excusable that foreign correspondents think that the President has any control over Public Health (beyond military and federal jobs). Public Health, like drivers’ licences (and physicians’ and most professional licensing), unemployment payments, insurance for cars, people, homes, etc, are all part of state rights and are in their many Governors’ domains (and they obviously are feeling their power). When Trump ADVISED, since that’s all he can do, the tristate epicenter of the US epidemic months ago (late March) to self quarantine, Gov Cuomo quickly pointed out that TRUMP had no authority to make such requests and threatened to sue. As the NY Times noted May 7, NYC seeded all the hotspots in the nation based on the NY strain of SARS-CoV2 detected everywhere. So it is not a stretch to say the Cuomo is responsible for covid spreading across the nation (probably inevitable, but he sped things up). Cuomo also threatened to sue RI Gov Raimondo when she tried to quarantine NYers bringing covid-19 into her state. Hawaii (and Alaska) have governors who have essentially copied Asia and quarantined all travelers arriving in state; Hawaii has had 24 covid-19 deaths, Alaska 18, NY 32,570. Cuomo is hawking a poster of NY’s massive “victory” over covid-19 for only $14.50, plus S/H. Cuomo is also threatening to arrest anyone from the NYC seeded hotspots who arrive in NY, although it’s likely that anyone in the NYC who was going to contract covid-19 already has had it.
    And it now looks like T cells provide the immunity to the coronavirus, not exclusively antibodies, which fade quickly, and hopefully our vaccine development is taking this into account.

    • Replies: @Sya Beerens
  19. Ko says:

    A good question to ask is why were so many predicting a pandemic years before it happened? I keep going back to the 2010 video in which a man named Bill Ryan spoke about how he learned of the group of powerful people called Bilderberg group. In the video he claimed he learned plans were made for war against Iran (ongoing provocations) and a pandemic starting in China prior to a reset to the New World Order.

    It also seems likely the pandemic has to do with the Great Reset – very, very soon coming. The Bilderbergers plan is to reset the global economy. All currency and every aspect to economy will be digitized and run on blockchain technology. People won’t really need to get microchip implants, though that’s going to happen. Our phones will be essential to our lives, we will be our own bank, and that will require the phone and therefore that is your ID2020. We are already tracked and monitored. It’s far too late to opt out, if that would even be possible.

    So why a Great Reset? The Bilderbergers and their minion hordes will rake in quadrillions of dollars when money is digitized. The gold standard is coming back very soon, and the new digital world reserve currency called XRP will be pegged to the gold price.

    The company called Ripple is going to be the most highly valued company on the planet. They talk about banking the unbanked – the millions of people with no access to the global economy. They will have smartphones, and the money they store will be on the blockchain, and when transactions are made, Ripple gets a slice. Ripple is closely connected to the Bilderbergs.

    This is a plan that’s been worked out since at least 2005. And if anyone thinks this is a conspiracy theory, then do your own research. Or don’t. It doesnt matter, you will find out one way or another.

    The pandemic was/is a smoke screen to hide the death of the economy as we know it. Bill Gates is an evil human being and he should be shoved into a pit and left to rot. His anti humanity GMG Foundation is nothing more than a charade that Dr. Mengele would be proud to have built. He and many others wish to reduce world populations as stated on the Georgia Guidestones, to 500 million. By the way, why hasn’t anyone trashed and destroyed the Georgia Guidestones?

    The rest is due to the decline of America and the the petrodollar. We are in a struggle for dominance with BRICS. War will happen. How can it not happen? It’s human nature.

    Watch the first 17 minutes:

  20. anonymous[246] • Disclaimer says:

    These so-called tensions are immaterial. The NATO bloc is limited to pinprick sneak attacks, which the SCO promptly interdicts and counters by exacting proportional costs. The latest sabotage attacks on Iranian assets are now finished.

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/china-inks-military-deal-iran-under-secretive-25-year-plan/5718940

    US military professionals know they have to limit themselves to harmless posturing if they want to keep playing with their shiny toys. US impotence is the determining factor here.

  21. Anon[316] • Disclaimer says:

    The Five Eyes are just feckless US lapdogs. British intelligence is pumped up by the romance of British and Hollywood movies: James Bond, MI6…the world incl. Brits think it’s all real, that they really do kick ass like in the movies.

    Brexit was a mistake for Britain, but a win for the Eurozone. Britain was never really part of Europe anyway, and Europe is better off without an American lapdog. Now Britain will replace her European immigrants with Asian/Muslim/African immigrants. A nice win alright, Farage.

    The only thing that seems to unite both the left and the right these days is China hate. Even George Soros is agreeing with Trump on this. That’s when you know something’s up. As Samuel Huntington said in his book Who Are We?, every country needs an external enemy to unite her people. China is that new enemy since Russia and Iran hate didn’t resonate with Trump’s base. China is an easy target now thanks to Covid19 and high immigration in the last two decades.

    China is not helping their own cause by not holding an open investigation into the origin. I think they should allow German scientists to go to Wuhan and do the investigation. WSJ reported recently that Germany is in a quandary as she now has equal trade with China and the US, which means she is in a perfectly neutral position. Their doctors and scientists did great in containing Covid, and Germans are the most honest people in the world.

    • Replies: @mark tapley
  22. @Ko

    Watched the first 17 minuets. Lots of speculation. The fake virus was predicted in 2014 by a journalist from documents he had obtained from 2012 showing the Rockefeller Foundation had the present covid 19 laid out. See my post 16 for more information. Also go to momorefakenews.com. China is the NWO model and is working with the Zionists in Jewmerica on the fake virus. Both countries primary goal is to gain more control of their population. China already has the social credit system of surveillance and control and have been moving large numbers of people into the cities.

    The fake virus was used as a cover for the theft by the central bank cartel of trillions for their friends on Wall St. This is another theft as was done by the sovereign global bankers in 08-09. I say sovereign because they are not held accountable by Congress.

    The last thing the Zionists would do is to adopt a gold standard. That would mean automatic accountability. The fiat central bank cartel is there most valuable tool. It makes the permanent wars for the Zionists possible and enables the continued expansion of socialist government. If money were gold and silver as intended by the founders then the currency could not be depreciated as a hidden tax as a means of stealing the wealth and eliminating the middle class which is also another big benefit for the Zionist elites.

    Iran and Syria are primary targets of the Zionists and have been since the Yinnon Plan was formulated in the 80’s and given as a task for the Israeli Foreign Legion (U.S. military) to accomplish as they have done in Iraq and Libya. I don’t foresee the use of nuclear weapons because I think most of their effectiveness is in the psychological aspect and many of us have doubts about their real utility. See Miles Mathis on this.

    It is most likely that the Zionists will continue on course as they have for well over 100 years. They have to have conflict ,war and hatred in order to make progress in their quest for a global totalitarian state. They will always fabricate crises in order to get the goyim to give up more liberties for an ephemeral appearance of security. Ultimately then goal is to herd all the livestock into the security of Agenda 2030-21.

  23. @Anon

    Germany is an occupied power controlled by the Zionists. They are tagging everything as the fake covid just like we are. Italy was one of the first hot spots. Official Gov. autopsies on the “victims” show over 99% had preexisting conditions, most multiple at an avg. age of 69.5. Friend of mine said her brother-in-law who had severe diabetes died of a brain hemorrhage. Reported as covid 19 victim. People are dying as usual, now they just get a fake tag.

    As you state, the Zionists always have to maintain an enemy. We built the USSR and also put the communists in power in China. I expect they will both be used in the next thesis antithesis for WW3 in order to implement the global totalitarian state that the Zionists syndicate has been. working on. for over 100 years.

  24. @BlackDragon

    When the current Chinese government of thugs took over China (read Anthony Kubek) as they were enabled to do by the U.S. Zionists they abrogated all property rights of the previous government. The people of Hong Kong as anywhere else have the right to self determination as to the government they want. Maybe the people of HK don’t want the social credit surveillance and control system of the mainland goon squad. Same thing applies to the Urghurs.

    • Replies: @d dan
  25. @Ko

    By the way, why hasn’t anyone trashed and destroyed the Georgia Guidestones?

    Good question. Since most Africans would have to be genocided in order to bring the world population down to 500 million why hasn’t BLM led it’s monument destroying hordes to topple these Guidestones?

  26. @Michael888

    Don’t mix politics with science

  27. @Alden

    The onrushing catastrophe is the collapse of the credit expansion, and the trough wars that follow.

  28. @Alden

    “Since the end of WW2, England has had a more socialist and more egalitarian socialist society than the Soviet Union ever had. “

    It did indeed, and it stopped around 1980, and has been in reverse ever since.

    Median male UK real wages are less than they were in 1997, while real house prices have more than doubled.

    GDP (aka “the economy”) is up 50% in real terms, but none of the gains have accrued to working people.

  29. d dan says:
    @mark tapley

    Ahh, so many misinformation and lies in such a short paragraph, like with so many typical anti-China trolls.

    “When the current Chinese government of thugs took over China (read Anthony Kubek) as they were enabled to do by the U.S. Zionists they abrogated all property rights of the previous government. “

    Land ownership was extremely uneven when PRC took over. A few percent of land owners control over 90% of the farm lands – the result of combination of feudal system, warlords, civil wars and foreign invasions. PRC initiated a systemic land reform to release most of the land to the peasants. I guess you think this is atrocious.

    “The people of Hong Kong as anywhere else have the right to self determination as to the government they want. “

    Firstly, Hong Kong people already enjoy more right to self-determination than anytime during the over 150 year of British rule. I guess you still want to ignore this fact. Secondly, it is not true that “people … anywhere else have the right to self determination as to the government they want.” In every countries, including US and every western countries, the right to self determination is granted only through the consent of the majority of the people in the country through the blessed power of the central government of that country. Try to form a government in your neighborhood to start collect taxes, issue fines and imprison criminals to see whether it will be declared illegal or not.

    “Maybe the people of HK don’t want the social credit surveillance and control system of the mainland goon squad.”

    Maybe, correction, certainly you don’t know what you are talking about. You don’t know anything about the “social credit surveillance and control system of the mainland”. Furthermore, Beijing is not interested in imposing any such alleged systems to Hong Kong.

    “Same thing applies to the Urghurs.”

    Yes, same thing applies to Uighurs – it is just in the opposite sense you try to insinuate.

    • Replies: @mark tapley
  30. @d dan

    Where’s the misinformation. The thugs in power in China now are mostly the descendants of the oligarchy that took over after the death of Mao who gained power as a result of the actions of the Zionist forces in the U.S. There was no recognition of property rights only tyranny as ap. 60 million Chinese died in Mao’s Great Leap Forward.” I never said the previous regime was a picnic. Individual freedoms and limited governments are the product of western civilization. The Asian countries never experienced these ideals before the example of the American Republic. Read the book by Mao’s personal physician “My Life With Chairman Mao” and you will see a typical parasitic despot living off the productivity of the people.

    The British left a legacy of self government and free enterprise that greatly benefited Hong Kong. Governments everywhere aggrandize for more power over the individual. That is self evident. And that is why the power of government should be strictly limited. The people of Hong Kong as everywhere else have the right to form a government of their own choosing. Not one imposed by the thugs on the mainland. You seem to think that since dictatorial government by those currently in power is the norm that somehow provides justification.

    Your statement that “Beijing is not interested in imposing such alleged systems to Hong Kong” is transparent sophistry. The thugs of China will never limit their own power anymore than the Zionists in the U.S. It contradicts the very nature of government. That is why the power of government must be limited. Jefferson said “let us hear no more of confidence in men, but bind them down from mischief with the chains of the constitution.” British philosopher Lord Acton noted long ago what many people still do not grasp as evidenced overwhelmingly in Mao as well as the current thug rulers of China and the Zionists here in the U.S. that “power tends to corrupt, absolute power corrupts absolutely.”

    • Replies: @d dan
  31. d dan says:
    @mark tapley

    More lies and misinformation.

    “The thugs in power in China now are mostly the descendants of the oligarchy that took over after the death of Mao who gained power as a result of the actions of the Zionist forces in the U.S.”

    I see. So now you are claiming Xi is elected due to actions by the US “Zionist forces”? Does this even worthy of a response?

    “There was no recognition of property rights only tyranny as ap. 60 million Chinese died in Mao’s Great Leap Forward.””

    I already explain the reasoning for the “property rights” part, but I guess you need to obfuscate this with further lies about “60 million Chinese died”…

    “Individual freedoms and limited governments are the product of western civilization. The Asian countries never experienced these ideals before the example of the American Republic.”

    That means you don’t know anything about ancient Chinese philosophies, social concepts and political thoughts. You unlikely know that Confucius invented the concept of *universal*, *free* and *private* education over 2000 years ago, well ahead of anything the West (or any civilizations) has ever seen until 20th century. You unlikely know Lao Tze advocated limited government well before there was the “American Republic”. You clearly didn’t know how the principles of how early Han dynasty govern.. etc. Of course, I can give more examples, but I am sure you are not interested. So, “it’s better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than open it and remove all doubt”

    “The British left a legacy of self government and free enterprise that greatly benefited Hong Kong.”

    This is clearly a blatant lie. Please tell how many elections did British allow during the over 150 years of ruling? How many their governors were elected by Hong Kongers? That is a true “legacy of self government”, isn’t it?

    I won’t bother to respond to the rest of your ideological rants and low-grade propaganda – they are self-explanatory. However, given:

    “A lie told once remains a lie but a lie told 1000 times becomes the truth.” – by Joseph Goebbels

    Maybe the good news is that you only need to repeat your lies 999 more times?

  32. I do not know Xi’s personal history. What I said was that after the death of the communist and murderer Mao there was a power struggle in the backward Chinese rat hole. The winners were to a large degree the scions of the Chinese elites of today.

    You didn’t explain anything about property rights. The Chinese communists did not recognize any preexisting property rights and in fact the citizens of China today do not have full property rights. You can go to California for instance and find large areas of native Chinese who have come to America in order to get property in perpetuity for themselves and their children that they do not have in their “wonderful” homeland.

    I guess all those peasants were reading “The Thoughts of Mao” with a little Confucius thrown in as they were dying of starvation in Mao’s Great Leap Forward. No problem though, Mao’s personal doctor reveals in “The Private Life of chairman Mao” what Mao’s real philosophy was. The same philosophy Lenin had. To plunder everyone except your cronies while telling the world about the workers paradise. I suggest you also read “Mao’s Great Famine” by Frank Dikotter, not much Chinese philosophy just the tragic story of a Mao’s man made catastrophe.

    If things were so bad under the British why was Hong Kong called the Pearl of The Orient and is still a major financial capital? All those Hong Kong Chinese I saw waving British flags. I don’t recall any of them waving the communist mainland flag. Hong has always been a much freer society than the mainland. If the mainland is so great why do they even need the Orwellian Social Credit Score surveillance and control system? I don’t think it is to promote individual freedom.

    Confusius was a toady for the ruling elite with his philosophy of passive acceptance. Much like the Hindus used to control the people in India. Where was this enlightened kingdom of limited gov. and free education? Maybe for the parasites at the top. For the great mass of of peasants there was nothing but grinding poverty. In fact its still is for most of the population. Are they still putting nets around the buildings to keep the happy workers from leaping to their deaths? Just make sure they all sign more of those no suicide agreements. Problem solved.

    • Replies: @Tacitus Herodotus
  33. @mark tapley
    Thank You for the Frank Dikötter book suggestion. You seem well read. Any other must read suggestions?

  34. @mark tapley

    Thank You for the Frank Dikötter book suggestion. You seem very well read. Any other must reads?

  35. @mark tapley
    Thank You for the Frank Dikötter book suggestion. You seem well read. An other must read suggestions?

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