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Will Americans Submit to a Second Lockdown?
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On March 24, President Donald Trump said he wanted the country and the economy “opened up and just raring to go by Easter.”

Easter came and went. And Trump was mocked for being aspirational and unrealistic. Yet, with Ascension Thursday at hand, 40 days after Easter, the president seems to have been ahead of his time.

The country, as a whole, is, and has been, opening up. Sunday’s New York Times reports that, for weeks now, more than two-thirds of the states have been relaxing restrictions as Trump had urged.

The reasons: weariness with the lockdown and sheltering in place, a growing belief that the worst of the pandemic is behind us and undeniably positive news from several fronts in the coronavirus war.

“New Cases in U.S. Slow,” ran The New York Times top headline Sunday, adding the cautionary warning, “Posing Risks of Complacency.”

The facts suggest a positive trend. The number of newly confirmed coronavirus cases in the U.S. has been dropping for a month. The number of deaths has fallen from 2,200 a day in April to closer to 1,400 a day in mid-May. Several days last week recorded fewer than 1,000 deaths, an awful toll but a clear improvement over April.

As of Friday, the rate of new cases of the coronavirus was declining in 19 states and rising in only three. New Orleans and Detroit have seen sharp drops. The number of new cases in New York, Massachusetts and Rhode Island has dropped. New cases in Cass County, Indiana, and Sioux Falls, South Dakota, where meatpacking plants had seen outbreaks, have declined.

“On eight of the past nine days,” said the Times, “there have been fewer deaths announced than there were seven days prior, indicating that the virus toll appears to be easing. More than half of the 24 counties that have recorded the most coronavirus deaths, including Oakland County, Mich., and Hartford County, Conn., are seeing sustained declines.”

Still, the thrust of the Times article was about the new crisis we will be courting, should we try to resume normal activities too soon. Do that, says the Times, and we could easily forfeit all the progress we have made.

Message: Social distancing, sheltering in place, wearing masks, working at home — the practices that broke the back of the pandemic — should be sustained for those able to do so.

Clearly, the opening in many states has been driven by popular protest and public demand. Crowds have ignored social distancing to demonstrate for an end to the shutdown. Protesters have refused to wear masks and engaged in the time-honored practice since the ’60s of civil defiance and disobedience.

The protesters seem to be saying: We deplore the losses and know the risks, but we cannot live our lives behind closed doors in our homes until the elites tell us, as though we were children, when we may go out in the yard.

Hence, the next question we are all likely to confront:

ORDER IT NOW

If there is a sudden resurgence of the coronavirus, a second wave, and the media elite and blue state governors demand a new shutdown, a new closure of beaches, parks, shops, restaurants and churches, will the people of this republic comply with those demands or defy them?

Will the nation answer back to the elites: We did that. We sheltered in place. We wore the masks. We socially distanced. We stayed in our homes. We stayed home from work. We have done all we were told to do to contain the virus. But, now, with the shutdown having put 36 million Americans on unemployment and sunk our GDP to Depression-era levels, we’re going back to work.

The political divide has already begun to appear.

Among those making the case for ending the shutdown and reopening the country and economy will be Trump, red state governors like Ron DeSantis in Florida and Brian Kemp in Georgia, conservatives in Congress and populists.

The proponents of a second shutdown will be liberal governors and mayors, the mainstream media and the Nancy Pelosi wing of Congress.

It should not go unmentioned that the latter’s political interests are best served the longer the shutdown endures and the worse the economic situation on Nov. 3. If the economy has failed to begin a robust recovery by fall, the greater the odds that Joe Biden wins the White House.

Yet, even if the pandemic returns in the fall, the establishment cannot keep the country closed indefinitely.

Prediction: If the people conclude they have done all they can do to mitigate the suffering from a virus they cannot eradicate, they will resist the imposition of another shutdown, and the establishment will have neither the will nor ability to push them back into their homes.

Ultimately, the people will decide when this shutdown ends, and when a plurality so concludes, the elites will be swept aside.

Patrick J. Buchanan is the author of “Nixon’s White House Wars: The Battles That Made and Broke a President and Divided America Forever.”

Copyright 2020 Creators.com.

 
• Category: Ideology • Tags: Coronavirus, Donald Trump 
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  1. Exile says:

    Ultimately, the people will decide when this shutdown ends, and when a plurality so concludes, the elites will be swept aside.

    Pat, when is the last time “the people” decided anything in America? Don’t you bring this up every week in non-election years?

    red state governors like Ron DeSantis in Florida

    Only if Israel gives Ron the go-ahead first. Is DeSantis going to sign the shutdown termination order in front of the Wailing Wall wearing a kippah?

    Pat cannot kick the Red Team habit despite their shabby treatment of him over the past 30+ years. Hopefully younger Americans can.

    • Agree: follyofwar
    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @Weston Waroda
  2. The US has about 5% of the world’s population. We have about 1/3 of the virus cases. Next case.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @ClassicBenz
  3. mike99588 says:

    A lot of the HCQ “heart problems” mean either a pre-existing deficiency of potassium and/or magnesium, depletion of potassium and magnesium by the virus and/or the medicine. We plan to add K+Mg supplements if necessary.

    The authoritarians are often suffering from a lead deficiency. This is even easier to supplement, say 150 grain doses taken with great speed….

    • Replies: @Longfisher
  4. anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @Exile

    Mr. Buchanan wouldn’t want to write about the Senate bailing out Wall Street 96-0. No, to keep enough people gulled into voting, there has to be a Beltway squabble over something — transgender statues, Confederate bathrooms, how to avoid a virus — that can be tinted Red v Blue in the next Most Important Election Ever. So,

    It should not go unmentioned that the latter’s political interests …

    et cetera, ad nauseum.

    • Replies: @Realist
  5. @mike99588

    Please inform us of your professional credentials, either medical, nutritional or rational, to make us take seriously your above statements.

  6. Here is an article that looks at how new technology is being used to ensure that physical and social distancing is taking place during the pandemic:

    https://viableopposition.blogspot.com/2020/05/surveilling-physical-distancing-big.html

    Big Brother is alive and well.

  7. nickels says:

    The people are spineless morons. Just open the dope shops and stream endless homosexual propaganda on TV and they will accept pretty much anything.

  8. Realist says:

    Will Americans Submit to a Second Lockdown?

    Of course…American stupidity knows no bounds.

    • Replies: @Trickster
  9. A123 says:

    Red States will open and have economic success. Blue states will stay closed and suffer.

    The federal money tap is now closing. Pelosi went way too far with her latest House Bill. People in closed Blue States will begin to experience permanent financial harm.

    When Blue State residents lash out against Blue Governors, this may be the shock needed to end the threat of SJW Globalism. It could look like Regan vs. Mondale 1984.

    PEACE 😷

  10. Cliff says:

    Memorial Day weekend has a whole new meaning this year when the Mayor of New York decided to do battle at the beach at Coney Island as if it was Omaha beach.

  11. Realist says:
    @anonymous

    It should also be noted that AG Barr has no intention of pursuing criminal charges against Obama or Biden. This will also apply to all others involved in the Russiagate scam. This must be the millionth time the upper echelon escape punishment for crimes committed. But our ineffectual elected circle jerkers prattle on about justice…such as Nunes and Chaffetz, Gowdy before him.

    The stupidity and insouciance of Americans marches on.

    • Agree: Exile, By-tor, brandybranch
    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @Observator
  12. Storm says:

    Best protest sign I have seen: “When tyranny becomes law. Rebellion becomes duty.” This situation has gone way past mere civil disobedience as a response.

  13. Trickster says:
    @Realist

    Well Realist, what can be more gratifying than self isolation in a walk in closet stacked with toilet paper and checking the cell from time to time to see if the dollars are floating in from the Fed ?

    • LOL: Realist
  14. Trickster says:
    @Longfisher

    You are not very polite. Please address him as DR. MIKE who passed his final exam with 99,588 marks out of 100. In other words he passed with close to 100,000% more than was required, the first time in history.Talk about the pursuit of excellence.

    He missed the other 412 marks because he got his potassium and magnesium formula wrong. According to the eminent dermatologist Dr. Trickster he should have added 1 part of windshield wash fluid and 2 parts concentrated sulphuric acid and a tablespoon of DDT.

    This formula is guaranteed to cure the virus, heart, liver, kidney, stomach, ulcers and any other medical condition…permanently !

  15. Wally says:
    @Robert Magill

    – We see the cases because we test more than everyone else combined.

    – We also have one of the highest negative test results.

    – The US also has one of the highest recovery rates

    – The US also has one of the lowest fatality rates.

    – The US is one of most visited countries in the world.

    – The US was a preferred travel destination for the Chinese.

    – Due to poor leftist governance the lions share of deaths have occurred in nursing homes for the elderly.

    – Most cases by far have occurred in leftist run cities, counties, states.

    Pay attention.

  16. anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @Realist

    Agreed. I’ve said several times that no one above a Strzok will even be charged, but hopes will be stoked to get out the vote.

    The propaganda needs to be tag teamed, too. That Mr. Buchanan hasn’t used the name “Flynn” since 2017 may be because he’s still on record here endorsing the bipartisan Beltway baloney that Russia interfered in the last Most Important Election Ever.

    • Replies: @Realist
  17. Rurik says:

    The political divide has already begun to appear.

    What’s left of this place, other than a nostalgia and a few more years (at best) until they mandate the Mark of the Beast, and outlaw cash, and dissidents are sent to the Ministry of Love at Gitmo.

    Does anyone actually believe that there’s a way out politically?

    Yes, Trump and the GOP will stave off a full blown race war on whitey, for a few more years, and perhaps that will give more of us time to emigrate. But the inevitable is the inevitable.

    Here’s part of an email that is circulating, (so it may have errors), but I guess we’ll see..

    Hard to believe but look it up on Congress website for HR 748 from 116th
    Congress.

    American population: 330,483,530
    Stimulus bill: $2,000,000,000,000

    Dividing the cost by every person in America is $6,051.74

    The government could have given every person over $6,000, but instead
    will give $1,200 to each adult under a certain income.

    Wanna know where the missing 96% of your tax dollars went?

    I’ll list just a few..

    $300,000,000 for Migrant and Refugee Assistance pg 147

    $300,000,000 to the Endowment for the Arts

    $300,000,000 for the Endowment for the Humanities

    $30,000,000,000 for the Department of Education stabilization fund (that’s with a ‘b’)

    (I guess the virus has really hurt our federal bureaucrats the most)

    $35,000,000 to the JFK Center for performing Arts

    $25,000,000 for additional salary for House of Representatives

    $95,000,000 for the Agency of International Development

    $300,000,000 for International Disaster Assistance

    $13,000,000 to Howard University pg 121

    They’re looting the carcass of this Republic and dooming your children to debt slavery.

    And Trump signed it into law.

    It’s over. Done. Kaput.

    Get out while you can.

    • Thanks: SeekerofthePresence
    • Replies: @follyofwar
    , @Wally
    , @DaveE
  18. 450.org says:

    The protests are a fabricated spectacle for the most part and do not represent ordinary Americans. They are organized and funded by the wealthy extractive elite. By people like Betsy Devos who wants to put young children to work in coal mines and textile factories harking back to a time when America was truly great and slave wages for slave labor under horrible working conditions was considered industrial progress.

    https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2020/05/the-lockdown-protestors-are-not-working-class.html

    Sarah Jones, in The Coronavirus Class War, does a neat, tidy job of kneecapping the notion that the anti-lockdown protests are manned by workers who want to get back to their jobs so they can start making money again.

    While there are no doubt some who feel like that, not only are they not well represented among low-wage workers, but they also don’t appear to be well represented among the protestors either.

    More generally, polls not only show that citizens prefer to keep the lockdowns on longer, but that that desire is strengthens as wages levels drop. They can least afford to contract a potentially deadly ailment. We’ve followed Mike Elk of the Payday Report on strikes by front-line workers at Amazon warehouses and meatpacking plants, as well as by nurses over the lack of PPE. The risks are highest for work in crowded conditions, and those laborers have sorted out they aren’t being paid enough to risk their health.

    Now you might then say, “But what about those protestors?” First, there’s a weird tendency among the chattering classes to view all Trump fans as poor white trash, resentful of their educated blue city latte-drinking, well-traveled betters. In fact, the average income of Trump voters in 2016 was more than $10,000 higher than that of Clinton voters. And no, Trump didn’t get more lower-income conservatives to turn out either; the percentage of Republican voters making less than $50,000 was lower than in 2012.

    While it isn’t decisive evidence, the fact that many protestors drove long distances isn’t consistent with financial distress. If you are part of that nearly half of America with less than $400 for an emergency, and you’ve already had weeks of no or diminished income, spending a tank of gas or more on driving, even with gas now cheap, is taking, to paraphrase the immortal George Bush, food off your family.

    More specifically, Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer charged the DeVos family with funding Michigan’s “Operation Gridlock”; efforts in other states emulated its approach and even copied language from Operation Gridlock organization materials. Far right groups like Proud Boys and pro-gun groups also supported the protests.

    Betsy Devos’s plan for the children of the unwashed. Just like the good ol’ days when America was greeeaaatttt!!!

    • LOL: follyofwar
    • Replies: @Alden
  19. @Realist

    Barr is an attorney and qualified his remarks carefully. What he said to reporters was,“Based on the information I have today, I don’t expect Mr. Durham’s work will lead to a criminal investigation of either man,” referring to Obama and Biden.

    At the same time, Barr strongly denounced the Russiagate hoax as “one of the greatest travesties in American history” because “the law enforcement and intelligence apparatus of this country were involved in advancing a false and utterly baseless Russian collusion narrative against the president,” pretty tough language even in this age of hyperbole.

    Barr now has the cooperation of a key intelligence community insider, former NSA Director Michael Rogers, which the Horowitz and Durham investigations did not have. It promises to be an interesting summer and fall.

  20. A123 says:
    @Observator

    Barr is an attorney and qualified his remarks carefully. What he said to reporters was,“Based on the information I have today, I don’t expect Mr. Durham’s work will lead to a criminal investigation of either man,” referring to Obama and Biden.

    Barr is also a politician and appointed official. The Biden/DNC base is dispirited and unenthusiastic. The threat of an Obama indictment could fire up the racist SJW DNC base.

    Now let us parse what Barr said closely, “I don’t expect Mr. Durham’s work will lead to a criminal investigation”

    — There could be an unexpected criminal result. Especially, if someone like Comey turns State’s Evidence for a plea deal.
    — Hillary Clinton was not mentioned.
    — There could be additional work during Trump’s 2nd Term leading to an expected criminal investigation.

    I am not aware of any statute of limitations time restriction on sedition and treason.

    PEACE 😷

  21. @Rurik

    Not to worry, Rurik, 80 year-old Princess Pelosi, with her freezer full of chocolate ice cream and with her quickly disintegrating face, has another $3 trillion dollar “stimulus” package waiting in the wings, which has already passed the House. Surely, in an election year, at least some of it will become law.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  22. Will Americans Submit to a Second Lockdown?

    The question is, should they? No.

    As for the politics, the biggest advocates of lockdown are in states that the Repubes have absolutely no chance of winning. Let them stay locked down, twist in the wind, and starve. Sure, letting California and NY self-immolate will have some knock-on effects on Red-State Ammerica, but Red-State voters will likely say, “Wow, I’m glad we aren’t like those poor starving schmucks!” As for the Lockdown Landar voters, they might wake up and smell the … errrr … coffee when their toilet paper ration runs out.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @A123
  23. Alden says:
    @450.org

    There are no textile or garment factories left in America. Liberals plan to close down all the coal mines.

    DeVos is secretary of education, not labor. How can she change the child labor laws?

  24. @Robert Magill

    We don’t know what percentage of the (global) virus cases we have, because we don’t know how many cases the rest of the world is (not) counting.

  25. Alden says:
    @Longfisher

    He’s right about potassium. It moves the muscle fibers that move the muscles. So if you don’t eat anything at all for 3-4 weeks you die because there’s no more potassium to move the muscle fibers of your heart.

    A reasonably normal diet provides all the potassium you need, even if you live on potato chips as potatoes are high in potassium.

    No need to take potassium supplements. Potassium is in most commonly eaten and cheap foods. Hamburger and French fried potatoes KFC with the mashed potatoes even more potassium, very cheap oranges bananas and apples.

  26. A123 says:
    @The Alarmist

    Football season will be critical:

    — Lockdown MI will go Trump if the Wolverines cannot play.
    — Lockdown PA will go Trump if the Steelers cannot play.
    — Lockdown LA will go into open armed revolt if the LSU Tigers cannot play. Whites & Blacks would gladly go to war shoulder to shoulder.

    Governor DeSantis and the University of Florida are trying to poach a pro-team season. (1)

    “I’ve already spoken to some of our colleges, like the University of Florida. They have a great football stadium, the Swamp, that’s not used on Sundays. So if an NFL team needs a place to land, we can work that out too,” DeSantis said on Fox and Friends.

    When asked if Florida State University and Tallahassee would be in the mix like the University of Florida and Gainesville, DeSantis was coy.

    NY Giants blue is the first choice as the Gators colors are blue & orange. I am sure that Steelers colors could be made to work though.

    FSU immediately upped the rumor ante by mentioning the Redskins. The bars and beaches of Panama City are about 2 hours away from Doak Field.

    PEACE 😷
    _______

    (1) https://floridapolitics.com/archives/332731-nfl-swamp-desantis

  27. Realist says:
    @anonymous

    I’ve said several times that no one above a Strzok will even be charged, but hopes will be stoked to get out the vote.

    Probably no one will be prosecuted…at any level. Excellent point about stoke the vote.

  28. Realist says:
    @Observator

    Barr is an attorney and qualified his remarks carefully.

    At the same time, Barr strongly denounced the Russiagate hoax as “one of the greatest travesties in American history”

    Yada, yada as with all politicians…same shit different day.

    As Anonymous[245] said that is to stoke the vote…for Trump

    It promises to be an interesting summer and fall.

    No it doesn’t…no charges, no convictions.

    • Agree: brandybranch
  29. anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @Observator

    Wait …

    which the Horowitz and Durham investigations did not have.

    Isn’t Mr. Durham supposed to still be lifting that next shoe, to be dropped any day now?

    • Replies: @A123
  30. Adûnâi says:

    The protesters seem to be saying: We deplore the losses and know the risks, but we cannot live our lives behind closed doors in our homes until the elites tell us, as though we were children, when we may go out in the yard.

    Well-said! The Americans are an incredible lot. In a way, the Americans are like Jews – a diaspora. Why a diaspora? Because they don’t have a country. The USA is not a country but a place on the map where people gather. They have no culture other than worshipping a dead Jew on the cross and transvestites. They eat burgers so often, 10.5% of the population have diabetes. And of course, they are spreading feminism and Christianity all around the world. What a disgusting nation, a spawn of Chaos itself against the forces of Beauty.

    https://www.diabetesresearch.org/diabetes-statistics

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  31. A123 says:
    @anonymous

    Isn’t Mr. Durham supposed to still be lifting that next shoe, to be dropped any day now?

    Do not get too anxious over timing. Solid cases are made methodically by quietly flipping the lowest level on the next level up, and so on. Unless a lucky “smoking gun” is found, we are well away from Surprising October arrests.

    PEACE 😷

    • Replies: @anonymous
  32. anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @A123

    You needn’t worry about me getting too anxious over timing. Or anything else.

    • Agree: Exile
  33. Wally says:
    @Rurik

    said:
    “And Trump signed it into law.”

    – After he insisted upon, and got, some cuts from the original bill.

    – What would have Clueless Joe Biden have done?

    – What would Bolshevik Bernie have done?

    • Replies: @Rurik
  34. Pat has moved from “Right From the Beginning,” his moving memoir of his Catholic childhood in Ethnic America, to the Wrong at the End, as this whining Me Decade column exposes.

    Who’da thought Pitchfork Pat would put instant gratification above the national cause of suppressing the invisibly spreading contagious virus, safely reopening the country, and withstanding likely future waves or recurring outbreaks.

    According to the Asia Times, coronavirus deaths of May 11 were: the half-ass-mitigating United States (80,787); and the suppressing nations of Japan (624), South Korea (256), Malaysia (109), Australia (97), Thailand (56), New Zealand (21), Singapore (20) and Taiwan (seven), bracketed by China (4,633) and Vietnam (zero). Sources: statista.com and government of Vietnam.

    Most of the suppressing Asian countries have started returning to work under health guidelines while quickly clamping down on outbreaks.

    In contrast, woke America remains in chaos without a national policy other than the Kushner family’s financial bubble and cheap foreign labor schemes.

    Wisely, the Kushners have taught their children Chinese. Regrettably, Pat’s ready for a lesson.

    • Replies: @Justvisiting
  35. @Buzz Baldrin

    Even if Pat believes the virus is as fake as a three dollar bill, it would have been wiser to hedge his bets until this thing plays out a bit longer.

    If there is no second wave I will join him in celebration.

    But, if there is one he will join a long conga line of Covidiots.

    This is really a time when it is better to be silent and thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.

    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome
  36. KenH says:

    The real question is if states attempt to force their citizens into a second lockdown will they comply and would Trump use the DOJ against those states? Trump and Barr have largely failed us and outside of moral support on Twitter and a few token lawsuits not much has been done to intimidate tyrant governors mostly in blue states.

    A few weeks ago Trump tweeted “liberate the states” then blasts Brian Kemp of Georgia when he did just that. Trump is trying to play both sides and straddle the fence unlike in 2016 when he thumbed his nose at the establishment and took no prisoners. Now he’s just Jeb Bush

    Let’s not forget that Eric Holder threatened legal action against Ferguson, MO when they called out armored vehicles against black protesters during the Michael Brown affair. As usual, Republicans are in office and merely govern while leftist Democrats are in power and rule.

    • Replies: @A123
  37. By-tor says:
    @Observator

    Barr, employed by the CIA from 1973-77, was also the the DoJ.gov attorney that defended FBI executioner Lon Horiuchi against manslaughter charges brought by the State of Idaho in 1997. He is a Wash., DC insider and operates within The System’s limitations.

  38. A123 says:
    @KenH

    The real question is if states attempt to force their citizens into a second lockdown will they comply and would Trump use the DOJ against those states?

    Trump is a President, not an Ayatollah or Emperor.

    There are real Constitutional limits on what a President can do. Federal powers can be used to:

    — Keep churches open / 1st Amendment
    — Maintain business across state lines (e.g. agriculture and trucking)

    Trying to intervene in the closure of a local-only service business, such as a restaurant or salon, does not fit cleanly within a federal power.
    ___

    The #1 thing the President can do is cut Federal support for states that go rogue. For example Michigan and Nevada:

    Blue states that lockdown will have no income & reduced Federal transfer payments. They will plunge towards insolvency.

    PEACE 😷

    • Replies: @KenH
  39. KenH says:
    @A123

    Trump is a President, not an Ayatollah or Emperor.

    You don’t have to be either of those things to sic the DOJ on states who are egregiously infringing upon fundamental Constitutional rights. States have no power or authority to quarantine healthy people and tell them that they cannot work or operate their businesses. The DOJ has the power the remedy this but in most cases are not so Trump and Barr are failing us.

    Trump makes noise on Twitter so his base will think he’s really doing something but in most cases it’s just tough talk and idle threats.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
  40. Corvinus says:

    “States have no power or authority to quarantine healthy people and tell them that they cannot work or operate their businesses.”

    Actually, states do have that authority. It’s called a health emergency. Covid19 is no hoax.

    • Replies: @gsjackson
  41. SafeNow says:

    Even if the population ignores a second lockdown, the “ignoring” will take the form of a self-imposed minimalist new normal. Thus, this Fall the U.S. will be in societal collapse either way. In yesterday’s NY Post, one of the regular op-ed columnists explained, in a sobering dose of realism, why LaGuardia and Newark airports should be shut down, leaving only JFK open. This is what the non-locked-down country will look like. Meet the non-locked-down country, same as the locked-down country.

  42. Rurik says:
    @follyofwar

    with her quickly disintegrating face

    lol

  43. Rurik says:
    @Wally

    – After he insisted upon, and got, some cuts from the original bill.

    – What would have Clueless Joe Biden have done?

    I just wish Trump wasn’t so bad that we’re forced to compare him to Biden, just to demonstrate that it could be worse.

    At least he isn’t Beelzebub, so there’s that.

    Why doesn’t Rand Paul run with Jessie Ventura, or something. I’d even go for a Ron / Rand Paul third party ticket, these days. I suspect the nation is that jaded with the “two” party system that maybe it’s finally time that third party would prevail.

    Build the Wall that Trump and the GOP refused to build. Deport the criminal invaders. Investigate Obama-gate and put Comey and Brennan and Clapper all in prison. End the Eternal Wars for Israel and bring the troops all home. And most of all, End the Fed!

    Trump will do none of those things. We’re doomed. It’s just a matter of time before they outlaw cash. Ehud Barak spelled it all out for us on 9/11. ‘After today, nothing will ever be the same’

  44. DaveE says:
    @Rurik

    …..and a few more years (at best) until they mandate the Mark of the Beast……

    (((They))) mandated the “mark of the Beast” a long time ago – it’s the Star of David. Six intersecting lines, six triangles connected in a ring, a six-pointed star.

    (((The beast))) must be fed and it’s ALWAYS hungry.

    • Agree: Rurik
  45. @Exile

    Ultimately, the people will decide when this shutdown ends, and when a plurality so concludes, the elites will be swept aside.

    Yes, it’s a pandemic, and it’s serious. Death is a possibility. You might die from the coronavirus. But death by despair (suicide, drug addiction, alcoholism) will more than offset the deaths by Covid-19. So thinking people, people who see that there is no science whatsoever behind the lockdowns also understand the Constitutional issues that are trampled on by keeping people out of work and out of their churches. Unfortunately, thinking people in these times do not constitute most people. Pat speaks for his generation, a generation that spoke with thunder. We are lesser sons of greater sires. We are but sheeple now. Rule us, O red state governors, you are our only hope. Whitmer, Newsome, Cuomo, Inslee, save us. Save us.

    • Replies: @Alden
  46. @Justvisiting

    If there is no second wave I will join him in celebration.

    Second wave? There wasn’t even a first wave.

    • Agree: By-tor
  47. On this Memorial Day, let us honor those brave souls who died so we can live in Freedom…err…LOCKDOWN.

  48. Second lockdown? In NYS we’re still up to our eyeballs in the first.

  49. gsjackson says:
    @Corvinus

    Governments can’t suspend constitutional rights — and I count 10 so far that have been taken away, with a couple more possibly coming down the pike — without a “compelling reason,” as narrowly tailored as possible to address the problem. Even with an obviously compelling reason the courts would still do a balancing test, giving extremely high value to constitutional freedoms. I’d love to see some of these petty tyrants hauled into court to justify as compelling things like shutting down beaches and parks, permitting singles tennis but not doubles, forbidding the sale of carpet and paint, etc.

    I don’t know where the constitutional lawyers have been hiding — well, yes I do, most of them are Democratic Party partisans, who, like the corporate media, want to keep the fear porn going strong until November. But there used to be a handful of conservative public interest law firms in this country, and I’d hope, if they’re still around, they would be ready to go seeking injunctions in the event of a second lockdown.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  50. Corvinus says:
    @gsjackson

    “Governments can’t suspend constitutional rights — and I count 10 so far that have been taken away, with a couple more possibly coming down the pike…”

    Which ten? Please be specific.

    “I’d love to see some of these petty tyrants hauled into court to justify as compelling things like shutting down beaches and parks, permitting singles tennis but not doubles, forbidding the sale of carpet and paint, etc.”

    In each case the governors are purporting to act on the basis of public health and emergency powers conferred on them by statutes enacted by those same elected legislatures. It is possible, of course, that one or more of the governors might have overstepped the letter of these authorizing laws, and if so the courts of those states can yank them back into line.

    From the source below.

    “I don’t know where the constitutional lawyers have been hiding…”

    https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/do-state-shutdowns-violate-us-constitution

    Moreover, claims that the governors have violated the Constitution’s Guarantee Clause have been circulating in some populist corners of Trumpland for weeks, sometimes helping to furnish a scenario under which the president might have an inherent power to give direct orders to state governors, as the current White House occupant briefly seemed to imagine he had the constitutional power to do.

    There’s little prospect any of these notions will convince a judge to enjoin a shutdown anytime soon. Since the 1849 case Luther v. Borden, involving a Rhode Island dispute, the U.S. Supreme Court has consistently held that the Guarantee Clause does not create any rights that can be enforced in federal court—as a nonjusticiable “political question,” it is instead entrusted to the elected branches. Just last year, in the gerrymandering case of Rucho v. Common Cause, Chief Justice John Roberts reminded everyone that the clause creates no rights that can be sued over. Ironically, while there has been no shortage of legal commentators yearning to breathe life into the clause as a means for courts to reshape state government, such interest has come above all from progressives. Conservatives have a lot to lose policy‐​wise should the courts ever decide to rouse the Guarantee Clause from its slumber—and even more ironically, Trump fans may have more to lose than do conservatives.

    • Replies: @gsjackson
  51. gsjackson says:
    @Corvinus

    The Guarantee Clause? What in the world has happened to the constitutional law bar? It used to have some intellectual giants.

    Constitutional freedoms removed:

    1. Freedom of movement incorporated into 14th & 5th Amendment “liberty.”

    2. Right to property guaranteed in 14th and 5th Amendments: property includes the opportunity to make a living.

    3. Violation of the 14th Amendment equal protection clause: a disadvantaged class of citizens — “non-essential workers and businesses” — has been created.

    4. Due process in the 14th and 5th Amendments: whatever the hell due process means in the context of law creation, it certainly involves at some point reference to the will of the people, and executive orders that go against that will have to be subjected at some point to constitutional scrutiny.

    5. First Amendment freedom of speech: while it is currently being violated by private companies — the tech totalitarians — they can be brought into line with existing FA case law (see red Lion v FCC and Turner Broadcasting v FCC).

    6. FA freedom of press: see freedom of speech above, same analysis holds.

    7. FA freedom to peaceably assemble: as even you can see.

    8. FA freedom of religion: as even you can see.

    9. 2nd Amendment right to bear arms: since all the firearms vendors have been closed, if you are currently unarmed and would like to exercise this right perhaps for the first time — SOL.

    10. 8th Amendment prohibition of cruel and unusual punishment. We’ve had virtually every pleasurable experience society has on offer removed, and in many states the consolations and health benefits of nature as well. All the while we’re left in a state of anxiety wondering what in the hell is happening to us. It’s punishment without conviction of any crime, it’s cruel, and God knows it’s unusual since it’s never happened in the U.S. before.

    A couple more looming ahead:

    1. “Contact tracing” involving searching people in their homes and removing them as necessary — a violation of the 4th Amendment prohibition of unreasonable searches and seizures.

    2. Mandatory vaccines — violation of the constitutional right to privacy.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  52. Skeptikal says:
    @Adûnâi

    Truly terrifying statistics on diabetes. A huge percentage of these cases are the result of life style choices or conditions. We all pay for this general and avoidable sickliness in elevated health costs, insurance costs, etc. All of these diabetics are a huge burden on the health -care system such as it is, and are at far greater risk for covid-19 and other infectious and other types of diseases and conditions.

    However, I don’t think people become diabetic (etiher type 1 or type 2) from eating burgers.

    BTW, at the website is a good example (see below) of the way the US DHSS Blue Form (death certificate), when the cause of death section on the death certificate is completed correctly (according to the pre-covid standard), this generates fairly reliable statistics. That is, a properly completed Blue Form distinguishes between contributing and underlying cause of death.

    “–Diabetes was the seventh leading cause of death in the United States in 2017 based on the 83,564 death certificates in which diabetes was listed as the underlying cause of death.

    —Diabetes was listed as the underlying or contributing cause of death on 270,702 death certificates in 2017.”

  53. Corvinus says:
    @gsjackson

    “The Guarantee Clause? What in the world has happened to the constitutional law bar? It used to have some intellectual giants.”

    There remain those heavyweights. And, yes, the Guarantee Clause is used here.

    “1. Freedom of movement incorporated into 14th & 5th Amendment “liberty.””

    Which remains intact.

    “2. Right to property guaranteed in 14th and 5th Amendments: property includes the opportunity to make a living.”

    Which remains intact.

    “3. Violation of the 14th Amendment equal protection clause: a disadvantaged class of citizens — “non-essential workers and businesses” — has been created.”

    PERCEIVED violation.

    [MORE]

    “4. Due process in the 14th and 5th Amendments: whatever the hell due process means in the context of law creation, it certainly involves at some point reference to the will of the people, and executive orders that go against that will have to be subjected at some point to constitutional scrutiny.”

    Examples, please.

    “5. First Amendment freedom of speech: while it is currently being violated by private companies — the tech totalitarians…”

    Tech companies are private companies, and therefore not automatically covered by the First Amendment free speech protections which apply to the government.

    In 2019, the Supreme Court ruled that a nonprofit running public access channels is NOT bound by governmental constraints on speech.

    https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/17/18682099/supreme-court-ruling-first-amendment-social-media-public-forum

    ” they can be brought into line with existing FA case law (see red Lion v FCC and Turner Broadcasting v FCC).”

    You’re going to have to explain your reasoning here.

    “6. FA freedom of press: see freedom of speech above, same analysis holds.
    7. FA freedom to peaceably assemble: as even you can see.
    8. FA freedom of religion: as even you can see.”

    You’re going to have to offer specific cases here.

    “9. 2nd Amendment right to bear arms: since all the firearms vendors have been closed”

    No. It depended upon location. From the source –> In Pennsylvania, Gov. Tom Wolf allowed gun shops to open with new social distancing rules at the urging of some justices on the state’s high court. Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton said Friday that purchasing and possession of firearms during the pandemic is indeed essential.

    https://www.npr.org/2020/03/27/822873078/officials-debate-whether-gun-stores-are-essential-during-coronavirus-outbreak

    “if you are currently unarmed and would like to exercise this right perhaps for the first time — SOL.”

    Except your right has NOT been taken away, it has been temporarily delayed.

    “10. 8th Amendment prohibition of cruel and unusual punishment. We’ve had virtually every pleasurable experience society has on offer removed, and in many states the consolations and health benefits of nature as well. All the while we’re left in a state of anxiety wondering what in the hell is happening to us. It’s punishment without conviction of any crime, it’s cruel, and God knows it’s unusual since it’s never happened in the U.S. before.”

    LOL. You certainly are being creative with this application. If you believe you have a case, by all means, seek counsel.

    “1. “Contact tracing” involving searching people in their homes and removing them as necessary — a violation of the 4th Amendment prohibition of unreasonable searches and seizures.”

    You have to show how and why it is a violation rather than merely say it is a violation.

    “2. Mandatory vaccines — violation of the constitutional right to privacy.”

    The Supreme Court made clear over a century ago that not only may states require vaccinations as a condition of school attendance (public or private) but also in an emergency all individuals—and not just school children—may be subjected to compulsory vaccination.

    • Replies: @gsjackson
  54. gsjackson says:
    @Corvinus

    OK, I’ll jump through these hoops just in case anyone else interested is looking in. Everyone knows your role here is not to further enlightenment.

    Please dispense with a couple of pointless arguments. Everyone knows these constitutional violations apply in some parts of the country, not so much in others. The protections were intended for all American citizens. And it should go without saying that these rights are suspended temporarily — shouldn’t it? That doesn’t make it any less egregious. If the state can remove these rights any time it decrees some sort of public purpose, then we don’t have the rights. Both the authors of the Constitution and prevailing case law have regarded these rights as all but inviolate, to be suspended temporarily only for the most compelling of state purposes.

    (1) Freedom of movement has long been considered to include international travel, which virtually all governments have colluded to preclude. Domestically, Americans can wander around aimlessly on foot or in a car, but there’s no place to go because no place is open. Renders the freedom pointless.

    (2) Do you really think that the 36 million Americans who have been applying for unemployment believe their property right of being able to earn a living is “intact,” or will remain intact when the lockdown is called off?

    (3) “Perceived?” This is straightforward equal protection law. A disadvantaged class of citizens has been created — there’s no argument about that — and the state needs to show a compelling reason why (it would be fun to see the govt in court defending liquor stores and lottery ticket sales as “essential.”)

    (4) “Examples” of what? Executive orders that displease large numbers of citizens can be seen in the news every day. The point is that due process, especially when it involves suspension of fundamental rights by executive order, should require a continual justification by the state of its actions, virtually every day.

    (5) & (6) I went through this at some length in another thread. I guess it’s too much to ask you to read case law. So briefly: The social media giants — Youtube, Facebook, Twitter, etc. — have been censoring viewpoints they don’t like for years, and in Corona time have been ruthlessly removing any material that conflicts with the official story put forward by the corporate media. These companies in effect have a monopoly on the public discourse right now, and have used that control to create a dysfunctional communication environment.

    First Amendment case law provides two avenues to rectify this. One is the company town line of cases, in which private companies owned the public square in which expression could take place, and therefore can be characterized as government when they suppress that expression. Another avenue comes from Red Lion and Turner Broadcasting, which both stand squarely for this proposition: The rights to free speech and a free press are held above all by the general public. The public has a right to be fully informed by a wide array of viewpoints in order to exercise their role as citizens, and this right of the public supersedes the right of individual publishers to be free from government interference. Government can intervene in a content neutral way to fix a dysfunctional communication environment,

    (7) & (8) “Specific cases?” The laws specifically preclude gatherings of more than a small number of people and religious services. You know, face-to-face interaction is not just incidental to either generating cogent criticism of governmental action (the American Revolution was born in the taverns), or the practice of some religions (e.g., Christianity: “whenever two or more of us are gathered in His name” good things are expected to happen). As all accomplished totalitarians know — keep ’em separated and parked in front of their screens.

    Searching people’s homes to find and potentially remove those who are ill, even with a warrant, is a violation of the 4th Amendment if courts find it to be unreasonable. And I guarantee that I will be heading to court to argue that it is, right after slamming the door in the face of the “contact tracers.”

    The right to privacy has evolved quite a bit since the vaccine decision 100 years ago, especially in the last 55 years. The language of this case law hinges around that which is “personal and intimate.” Some of it talks about the sanctity of the bedroom. What could be more intimate and personal than your health? You take it with you to the bedroom and every place else you go. If this right doesn’t now include personal autonomy over personal health decisions, then the case law is rendered meaningless.

    • Replies: @Alden
    , @Corvinus
  55. Alden says:
    @Weston Waroda

    Pat Buchanan’ generation destroyed White interests

    1948 Truman desegregated military

    1953 Brown vs Topeka

    [MORE]

    1955 Eisenhower sends federal troops to Arkansas and Tennessee They use bayonets in a Arkansas and have tanks standing by to condemn White children to 12 years of horror caged with black savages.

    1961 March Kennedy issues executive order to take affirmative action to hire blacks instead of Whites for federal jobs.

    1962? Kennedy sends federal troops to desegregate Georgia public schools

    1964 Civil Rights For all but Whites law

    1965 unlimited non White immigration law

    1967 Philadelphia Plan affirmative action imposed on every labor union in the country

    1968 affirmative action law

    1970Nixon creates the Hispanic race and makes it eligible for affirmative action by his executive order

    1973 Griggs vs Duke Power Supreme Court reinforces affirmative action law. Chief Justice Brennan , May he burn in hell forever and ever amen finds

    “ Disproportionate representation is in and of itself clear and present evidence of discrimination “

    1973-75 Opening to China US manufacturing moved to China. Chinese invade USA.

    1979 Kaiser vs Weber more affirmative action discrimination against Whites.

    1983? 4? Regean issues executive order that all Emergency Rooms must accept anyone who enters and demands medical care Illegals and tourists from all over the world come to America for free medical care.

    1986? Regean issues amnesty for illegals executive order

    That’s as much as I feel like typing now.

    White Americans were destroyed in just 20 years bracketed by 2 Supreme Court decisions, Brown vs Topeka and Griggs vs Duke Power. Both funded by ADL AJC NAACP ACLU and other Jewish organizations.

    Kaiser vs Weber and Regean’s pro non White executive orders were just mopping up operations

    • Thanks: Rurik
    • Replies: @Corvinus
  56. Alden says:
    @gsjackson

    Roe vs Wade legalized abortion by the SC finding that medical privacy superseded any laws about abortion. Precedent set that government cannot interfere with private medical issue of abortion.

    Perhaps government cannot force anyone to be vaccinated . But government can order that you can’t work, employee anyone, run a business or buy a car, rent an apartment or commercial space unless you are vaccinated. Precedent set kids can’t attend school or summer camp without vaccines records and negative TB tests.

    Many jobs require negative TB tests. Not just school teachers but clerks and janitors at district headquarters . Not just Drs and medical providers but every person who works in a hospital.

    There were no requirements that school kids present vaccination records and negative TB tests until the 1980s when TB measles diphtheria chicken pox etc spread in the schools solely because of immigrant students who had not been vaccinated in their home countries.

  57. Corvinus says:
    @gsjackson

    “Everyone knows your role here is not to further enlightenment.”

    Your statement is other than accurate. My role here is to keep discussion flowing and question narratives.

    “Everyone knows these constitutional violations apply in some parts of the country, not so much in others. The protections were intended for all American citizens. And it should go without saying that these rights are suspended temporarily — shouldn’t it?”

    Listen, you automatically assume that there are constitutional violations. You have to establish a clear argument, not provide assumptions.

    “If the state can remove these rights any time it decrees some sort of public purpose, then we don’t have the rights.”

    Except it’s not the “state”, it’s elected public officials you and I put into office who are making those decisions. Our rights are NOT being permanently removed.

    “Both the authors of the Constitution and prevailing case law have regarded these rights as all but inviolate, to be suspended temporarily only for the most compelling of state purposes.”

    Exactly. Officials at the state and local level are protecting public health, which is most compelling interest.

    “(1) Freedom of movement has long been considered to include international travel, which virtually all governments have colluded to preclude.”

    You mean governments made a collective effort to individually safeguard their borders–which is their liberty as a sovereign nation. Collusion refers to “cooperation in secret” or means “deceiving unlawfully”. That was NOT the case here.

    You do realize that domestic and international travel has been going on during this pandemic with restrictions, right? No American states to my knowledge issued orders prohibiting air travel. Even the WHO stated that international travel bans generally do not work well.

    https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/03/30/824043342/coronavirus-u-s-still-seeing-thousands-of-flights-despite-a-drop-in-air-travel

    And, you do realize that private businesses like airlines may put forth certain expectations for their workers and patrons, right?

    https://www.cntraveler.com/story/flying-during-coronavirus-how-airlines-are-changing-their-in-flight-rules

    “Domestically, Americans can wander around aimlessly on foot or in a car, but there’s no place to go because no place is open. Renders the freedom pointless.”

    I suggest refraining from using absolutes like “no place to go” and “no place is open”, since there are restaurants open for curbside pickup/carryout and there are state parks open for the public to hike and fish.

    “Do you really think that the 36 million Americans who have been applying for unemployment believe their property right of being able to earn a living is “intact,” or will remain intact when the lockdown is called off?”

    Our right to be able to earn a living is also dependent upon our own individual duty AND a company’s obligation to adhere to state regulations or guidelines. For example, my dentist’s office was closed. He agreed there was a responsibility on his part to follow protocols during a health emergency. It has now reopened. All of his employees are back. Assuredly, for some businesses, that will not be the case. But the state has NOT seized or denied people this inherent right to work or own a business. We can find employment. Just because we had a job before and a business closed because of the impact of the lockdown does not mean we are prohibited from securing future employment.

    “(3) “A disadvantaged class of citizens has been created — there’s no argument about that.”

    You have YET to make an argument. You simply made an assumption. You will need to craft your legal position using this criteria. Best wishes on your endeavor.

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/13/124.103

    “(4) “Examples” of what? Executive orders that displease large numbers of citizens can be seen in the news every day.”

    Displeasing? Indeed. In violation of the Constitution? Perhaps. Again, you have to make an actual case rather than assume.

    https://www.thecentersquare.com/minnesota/businesses-sue-walz-claiming-executive-orders-violate-constitution/article_3afb65b2-9076-11ea-bb68-a7458d532c00.html

    https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/constitutional-powers-and-issues-during-a-quarantine-situation

    (5) & (6) I went through this at some length in another thread.

    Which thread? Please link to it. I am familiar with case law. I provided an example of a recent Supreme Court ruling regarding private companies censoring public material. It will be interesting to see if the Trump Administration pursues this matter in light of federal appeals courts ruling that privately operated internet platforms are free to censor content. There is no law that says these content creators or anyone else has a right to be on Facebook, YouTube, Twitter or any other social media platform. Private social media operators are not part of the government, and are thus not subject to the restrictions of the First Amendment of the United States Constitution. Could this change? Certainly. How? Legislation and court decisions.

    (7) & (8) “Specific cases?”

    Yes, specific cases. You do realize that people are attending virtual services. There is free exercise of religion. No one is interfering with anyone’s ability to worship.

    Remember, we do not come into the presence of God when we enter a church building and we do not leave His presence when the service is over. All believers have the Holy Spirit living in us from the moment of salvation, so we carry His presence with us. This means that every act of our lives, whether alone or in the company of others, can and should be an act of worship. The real experience with God is being with Him…everywhere and anywhere.

    Now, unfortunately, some people just cannot abide by social distancing when exercising their liberty to peacefully assemble, and as a result, are putting their fellow Christians lives at risk.

    “You know, face-to-face interaction is not just incidental to either generating cogent criticism of governmental action (the American Revolution was born in the taverns), or the practice of some religions (e.g., Christianity: “whenever two or more of us are gathered in His name” good things are expected to happen).”

    You do realize that there were legitimate protests across our land regarding the state lockdowns, right? Freedom of assembly has remained in full force.

    “As all accomplished totalitarians know — keep ’em separated and parked in front of their screens.”

    Except our system of government is not totalitarian.

    “Searching people’s homes to find and potentially remove those who are ill, even with a warrant, is a violation of the 4th Amendment if courts find it to be unreasonable.”

    IF, being the operative word here.

    “And I guarantee that I will be heading to court to argue that it is, right after slamming the door in the face of the “contact tracers.”

    I wish you well.

    “The right to privacy has evolved quite a bit since the vaccine decision 100 years ago, especially in the last 55 years. The language of this case law hinges around that which is “personal and intimate.” Some of it talks about the sanctity of the bedroom. What could be more intimate and personal than your health? You take it with you to the bedroom and every place else you go. If this right doesn’t now include personal autonomy over personal health decisions, then the case law is rendered meaningless.”

    You bring up a legitimate point. Ultimately, it will be decided by the people through legislation or through a lawsuit.

  58. Corvinus says:
    @Alden

    Actually, his generation expanded HUMAN interests, including whites, blacks, Hispanics, Asians, etc.

  59. gsjackson says:

    If anyone except Corvinus thinks his latest word salad made any points that need addressing, let me know which ones and I will.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  60. Corvinus says:
    @gsjackson

    “If anyone except Corvinus thinks his latest word salad made any points that need addressing, let me know which ones and I will.”

    LOL, just as I suspected. I offer a number of relevant points, and you resort to making this type of statement.

    • Troll: Rurik
  61. Why does Pat believe in social distancing and mask wearing when the President doesn’t, and when the science doesn’t back up these ideas?

  62. Only COVIDIOTS believe in the HOLOCOUGH Hoax.

    • LOL: Tsar Nicholas
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