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Are China's Threats to Taiwan a Bluff?
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Monday, four dozen Chinese military aircraft flew into Taiwan’s air defense zone, climaxing a weekend of provocations that saw nearly 150 sorties of China-based fighters and bombers.

The U.S. State Department countered by issuing a stern statement warning Beijing about the adverse effect on regional “stability” of such “provocative military activity.”

Yet even as the waves of Chinese military aircraft entered Taiwan’s air defense zone, President Joe Biden was reassuring Japan’s new Prime Minister Fumio Kishida that the U.S. would defend the Senkakus from any Chinese attack.

Controlled by Japan but claimed by China, the Senkakus are uninhabited rocks in the East China Sea.

Our alliances in the Pacific dating to the 1950s have put us in an odd position. The Biden administration says it will fight to defend the Senkakus and fight if the Philippines attempt a military retrieval of atolls and reefs in the South China Sea that China has seized, occupied and fortified.

For Taiwan, however, a democratic island of 14,000 square miles and 23 million people, and for Hong Kong, a formerly free city of 7 million, we will not commit to fight — though human rights and democracy are said to be central to the Biden foreign policy.

We will fight for Japan’s right to hold the Senkakus and Manila’s right to retrieve Mischief Reef, but not to ensure the rights of the 30 million people of Hong Kong and Taiwan.

What is China, dispatching bombers and fighters around the southern and eastern coasts of Taiwan, up to?

This is an unmistakable message to America that, about Taiwan, Beijing is serious. China is warning the U.S. and its allied and associated powers — Australia, Japan, India — that it will, in the last analysis, fight to prevent an independent Taiwan.

Taiwan is a red line for China. Is it for us?

This latest challenge comes after the public humiliation of the United States in Afghanistan, about which China has been crowing since August.

Yet, these four days of Chinese intrusions into the air defense zone of Taiwan do not necessarily portend an imminent invasion or attack.

For such an attack would risk a U.S. response in East Asia and a political and diplomatic confrontation if not a military one. The impact on the world economy of a collision between the world’s largest militaries and the world’s largest economies would be devastating.

The stakes involved here are huge, but who would benefit from such a war?

If after the fall of Afghanistan and the humiliation of the U.S. defeat and departure, the U.S. abandoned Taiwan, U.S. credibility would be shot in Asia. Asia and the world would conclude that China owned the future.

As for credibility, China has a well-established record.

ORDER IT NOW

China started and finished the recent war in the Himalayas with India. It warned Hong Kong to stifle the democracy protests that went violent in 2019. When Hong Kong failed to do so, Beijing acted and is now completing the full absorption of the city into the mainland.

On its warnings and threats, China tends to follow through.

Of all the islets and reefs in the South China Sea it has taken from Vietnam, the Philippines and other neighbors, China has surrendered not a one. Though charged with “genocide” against the Uyghurs, it has persisted in its persecution, as it has in its suppression of Tibetans and Christians.

Chinese President Xi Jinping and his party are unapologetic about their Communist values and Marxist beliefs.

Still, China has its problems, none of which would be solved and all of which would be exacerbated by any major clash with the United States.

China is facing energy shortages and blackouts from a lack of fuel for its coal-fired power plants, its primary source of energy.

After decades of a “one couple, one child” policy, China is facing a demographic crisis. In parts of the country, deaths now exceed births. China’s women have a fertility rate below replacement levels. China is aging and shrinking, and declining populations correspond with declining powers.

But if it is hard to see any benefit to China to come out of war with the United States, it is equally hard to see any benefit for the USA.

China will never relinquish its claim to Taiwan, whose independence is recognized today by only a handful of nations.

China is a nation many fear and respect, but whose regime few see as a friend. For Beijing has historic claims in every direction — on lands held by Russia and India, and to islands and reefs claimed by Vietnam, Malaysia, Singapore, Brunei, the Philippines and Japan. It has a claim on Taiwan and on all the islands Taiwan claims in the East and South China Seas.

Yet, though facing the world’s most menacing power 100 miles away, Taiwan, as of 2019, was still spending less than 2% of GDP on defense.

Refusing to invest in your own defense, and relying on America to come and fight your wars, seems to be a tradition with America’s allies.

Patrick J. Buchanan is the author of “Nixon’s White House Wars: The Battles That Made and Broke a President and Divided America Forever.”

 
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  1. 1776 to 2021 is what — 245 years and USA has been at peace for 17 years ?

  2. Monday, four dozen Chinese military aircraft flew into Taiwan’s air defense zone, climaxing a weekend of provocations that saw nearly 150 sorties of China-based fighters and bombers.

    What is “Taiwan’s air defense zone” relative to its territorial borders?

    Why would Mr. Buchanan fail to explain this term to readers?

  3. What has Hong Kong lost?

    What could the Jew.S.A. possibly give to Hong Kong? A lecture on how to become obese and stupid?

    • Replies: @follyofwar
  4. All great powers meet their red line: the same one as their adversary. The Pattern of history shows every empire eventually meets the war it is trying to avoid. To maintain hegemonic dominance the US has no one else to fight but China: and China has no one else to fight but America as it seeks to replace it. There is nothing to suggest they can avoid this catastrophic conflagration – world war, nuclear war.
    https://www.ghostsofhistory.wordpress.com/

  5. TG says:

    I read that the US military has been training the Taiwanese defense forces.

    Clearly, Taiwan is doomed.

    • Agree: Spender_CGB
    • LOL: Trinity
  6. @Greta Handel

    Taiwan’s “air defense zone” extends well into Fujian and Guangdong. Claims that China is violating Taiwan’s airspace are ridiculous.

    China should do a flyover of Taipei and Hsinchu, home to TSMC, just to show them who the boss is.

    • Agree: GomezAdddams
    • Replies: @nokangaroos
  7. augusto says:

    Please don t lie that low, mr Bucking.
    Air defense identification zone is a just, is only a convenient ‘concept’ built up to bash up and poke and pester those ones whose public pestering turns convenient to sorosity tycoons and to the dizzy, butt aching foggy bottom, who didnt recover as yet from the Cabul tragicomedy.
    It s no national air space, it s no 200 mile economic zone.
    Let me whisper-suggest you one thing Mr. loose Buckling.
    What is american position if Mr Xi jin Ping considers it a space of FREE AIR NAVIGATION just like that the USN takes as such for their moves?

    • Thanks: showmethereal
  8. Exile says:

    China recognizes that US soft and hard power are lacking and that now is the time to call our bluff on Taiwan.

    The threat of the United States going to war with China over Taiwan has never been credible and it’s particularly laughable now. The Korean War demonstrated what would happen in any US-China exchange short of full nuclear war. Everything after that has been the usual mix of preachy rhetoric and corrupt deals on the down-low.

    I respect the Chinese government for advancing Chinese interests, seeking to unify their people and to eliminate the Rainbow Empire’s Fifth Column in Taiwan. And it helps me as a White American because it delegitimizes and humiliates our Zionist occupational imperial government that oppresses my people, extracts our resources and sends our sons to die for globohomo in the Middle East and Asia.

  9. mijj says:

    US organized the BioWar Covid attack on China to destabilise and disempower it.
    It backfired.

    Will USA will demonstrate a similar competence with this latest manufactured China crisis.

  10. @Johnny Smoggins

    Taiwan´s “air defense identification zone” extends well unto the
    Chinese mainland iow it is a cheap pretext to get a knot in their knickers
    and a glaring lie by omission on Mr. Buchanan´s part.
    The mainlanders do not even cross the “middle line”
    (international default standard for maritime borders) so what they
    are doing is far less provocative than any “freedom of navigation” exercise.

    The PRC regard Taiwan as a wayward province not an enemy so without US
    meddling there would be no blustering/threatening at all.

    • Agree: showmethereal
  11. eudion2 says:

    I wonder if people like Buchanan are aware that missiles have been invented. A missile that costs about two million dollars can destroy a hundred million dollar jet fighter or a billion dollar battleship. For a mere ten billion dollars, the US could fortify Taiwan with five thousand missiles. No Chinese invasion force outside of what currently counts as science fiction could survive that. In theory, Taiwan should be impregnable.

    However . . .

    Maybe the Chinese military is stupid, and their generals and admirals don’t know about missiles, and so they are in fact planning to cross the 160 kilometer Strait of Taiwan and take Taiwan. Maybe the US military is stupid, and our generals and admirals don’t know about missiles, and forgot to put missiles on Taiwan or will forget to use them or they have deployed the missiles in some incredibly incompetent, easily-surmounted way, and the Chinese invasion will thereby succeed.

    I don’t know what’s going on here, but I do know that on the face of it, a successful Chinese invasion of Taiwan is highly improbable. It makes it seem like all this rhetoric about war with China has a disreputable subtext.

    • Replies: @mike99588
    , @showmethereal
  12. mike99588 says:

    The “Phoney war” theme seems familiar. Oh, yes.
    Germany and France (and UK) 1939-40.
    How did that end? (messy)

  13. mike99588 says:
    @eudion2

    Part of China’s answer is more and bigger missiles.

    • Replies: @eudion2
  14. Yee says:

    A US nuclear submarine hit they don’t know what in South China Sea a few days ago…

    Interesting news, considering the fuss over the Aussie submarine deal.

  15. Yee says:

    eudion2,

    It makes it seem like all this rhetoric about war with China has a disreputable subtext.

    The US want to ratchet up tension in order to frighten capital out of China.

    • Replies: @mulga mumblebrain
  16. SafeNow says:

    Remember that classic movie, “Goodbye Mr. Chips”? That’s the real issue here. Taiwan produces half the world’s computer chips. Even that understates it, because production is skewed toward complex chips. The world’s economy depends upon Mr. Chips to a large degree. You know the old saying: “Making complex chips is not rocket science – – it’s harder.” The U.S. won’t admit it, but the U.S. cannot do fastidiousness any longer. Endoscope cleaning. Org-syn benchwork. And so on. Discussing Taiwan without Mr. Chips is like visiting the Sistine Chapel and not looking up.

    • Replies: @Escher
    , @TGD
  17. Escher says:
    @SafeNow

    The U.S. won’t admit it, but the U.S. cannot do fastidiousness any longer. Endoscope cleaning. Org-syn benchwork. And so on.

    LOL.

  18. Anon[362] • Disclaimer says:

    Unbelievable. Patrick Buchanan, you are a dog. It is shameful to see you playing fetch for China in your senior years like this. And you even had the gall to bring up that Himalayan debacle where the Chinese got whipped by the Indians and ran with their tails tucked between their legs.. I sincerely hope you will be put in a retirement home sooner than later.

    • Agree: GomezAdddams
    • Troll: follyofwar
    • Replies: @Saladin
    , @Anonymous
  19. Taiwan should be told that any declaration of independence and they will be on their own. I’m sure the US Government has already secretly told Taipei this. War game simulations consistently show the USA losing a war with China. There are reports the US Military is training Taiwanese troops; this could be indicative that the US will not intervene if the PRC attempts an invasion of Formosa. if the US abandons Taiwan US ‘credibility” will not be shot as Pat claims because the US has no formal defense treaty with Taiwan as it does with South Korea and Japan. The US ended its defense obligations with Taiwan in 1979 and has never said for certain it would defend Taiwan. Anyway Japan and SK no longer need US military protection anyway, both have robust militaries and both could become nuclear powers overnight; Taiwan itself was close to going nuclear in the 1980s before the US forced it to shut down its clandestine nuclear program. The US doesnt defend Japan and the ROK out of the goodness of its heart but to maintain its global hegemony; it no doubt fears the day both Japan and the ROK tells it its services are no longer required and kicks its unwanted troops and bases out of both countries.

  20. TGD says:
    @SafeNow

    Taiwan produces half the world’s computer chips. Even that understates it, because production is skewed toward complex chips. The world’s economy depends upon Mr. Chips to a large degree. You know the old saying: “Making complex chips is not rocket science – – it’s harder.” The U.S. won’t admit it, but the U.S. cannot do fastidiousness any longer.

    Globalism (ie the “global economy”) has been a priority project of the duopoly- the bunch who actually run the USA under the direction of special interests since long before WW2.

  21. mike99588 says:
    @Exile

    China’s been reaping dividends on the Biden billions for a long time.

    But I think Japan means business and China would do well to remember.

  22. mike99588 says:
    @Yee

    It will be interesting to see what story China wants to do.
    It’s a bottom chained junk (cheap anti-sub), a sub, or a lost boat/ship …

    But whatever, it’s our fault. /s

  23. Derer says:

    The U.S. State Department countered by issuing a stern statement warning Beijing about the adverse effect on regional “stability” of such “provocative military activity.”

    What is wrong with this barking is the fact that it is the US State Department that is causing regional instability in every corner of this planet. The Washington gang condescension is losing its effectiveness. Look at the geography, Taiwan is a historical China’s island used for humanitarian reason as a sanctuary for the defeated regime entirely at the discretion of China mainland.

  24. @Rurik

    What’s your point, Rurik?

    • Replies: @Rurik
  25. @true.enough

    Those months long riots in Hong Kong was a Deep State Color Revolution. But just as in Afghanistan, the deep state failed miserably. China showed much more patience with the rioters than the USG ever would – unless it was Antifa or BLM. Finally, the PRC had no choice to bust in and stop the violence. Most Hong Kong residents cheered in agreement.

    In the US, Jewish AG Garland is persecuting hundreds of non-violent Trump supporters, even if they never entered the Capitol on 1/6. Many have been in jail for months, and are routinely beaten by black guards. Their only crime – trespassing, a misdemeanor.

    Now Garland is using the FBI to go after those parents who have the gall to speak up at school board meetings. No doubt many who go under cover will be FBI informants. How many parents will be arrested for exercising their Rights by questioning elected officials? And thousands of highly experienced, impossible to replace nurses, are being fired for refusing the death shot.

    Which country is more totalitarian towards its own citizens, the dis-United States or China? I’m sick of hearing about the “genocide” of the Uyghurs, which Pat brings up in nearly every column. We White Americans are the ones being deliberately replaced by millions of illegal aliens – which, per the UN, is a genocide.

    • Agree: SafeNow, Joseph Doaks
    • Thanks: true.enough
    • Replies: @anonymous
  26. Rurik says:
    @follyofwar

    What’s your point, Rurik?

    Sins of the father

    From what I understand, Buchanan was an integral part of Nixon’s administration.

    I have no idea if Pat endorsed Nixon’s outreach to China, (in order to open up China to greedy American corporate interests), but if he didn’t approve, I also don’t recall any objections, veiled or otherwise.

    I see no problem with trading with China, except under Mao and his evil, murderous regime. But in these last few decades, it hasn’t just been trade, but massive outsourcing.

    China would not be one fraction of the powerhouse it is now, were it not for the fecklessness, greed, corruption and yes, treason- if you ask me), of our federal government, that has done all in its power to facilitate the looting of America’s manufacturing and technology in favor of a rival (and potentially enemy) state.

    But when it comes to shekels, follyofwar, then America is the dankest gaping whore the world has ever known.

    For shekels, our ruling elite will not only sell us all out, they’ll sell our their oaths, their nation, their children and their rotten, black as the abyss, souls, (if they ever had one).

    It should have been illegal to sell military secrets to China for campaign cash, but then if they punished Bill Clinton for it, then they were too terrified that they’d all be held to account, because they’re all as rotten and treasonous as venal scumbag\$ can get. And so it’s all for sale.

    No one should be wringing their hands wondering what to do about China, because it was our rotten leadership who sold out America’s future to China, for shekels in their pockets today!

    There is a divide in our nation and society, between the people and ‘our’ elites. The amoral, oportunistic elites always sell out the people, and then pretend like they don’t know how things got so fucked up.

    They know, because they did it.

    Now, today I was just wondering, (considering the nature of elites) whether or not the elites of China and the elites of the West aren’t considering an old fashioned conventional war between their two respective peoples, that would certainly wipe out millions of their working class. rural young men.

    I wonder if nothing would give America’s elite such a boehner as a few million working class (mostly white) young men getting slaughtered killing millions of rural Chinese men.

    Imagine the problems that would solve for both nation’s elites – I suppose I’m more amazed that it hasn’t happened yet, considering the character of our elites. I guess I’ll put that down to the character of the Chinese, for whom slaughtering a few million of their own young men might not seem as such a beneficial ‘solution’.

    • Thanks: Trinity
  27. raga10 says:
    @Yee

    A US nuclear submarine hit they don’t know what in South China Sea a few days ago…

    I have zero classified information, of course, but I would bet it just hit a container; there’s a lot of shipping in that area, and thousands of containers are lost at sea every year. Some of them float on the surface; some more might be floating at various depths before they finally reach the bottom. And if you think that sonar would be sure to detect a floating container, let me remind you there were occasions when a sub collided with a whole ship it failed to detect, never mind a single container. Just this February “Japanese submarine collided with a commercial ship as it attempted to surface off the country’s Pacific coast”

    • Replies: @mike99588
    , @Alfa158
  28. d dan says:

    “What is China, dispatching bombers and fighters around the southern and eastern coasts of Taiwan, up to?”

    What is China, up to? Really? This is a thief calling to catch thief.

    Readers may or may not know the following facts. Oct 1 is China’s national day and a big celebration and holiday for billions. It has been the tradition of US military to probe and provoke China during their holiday seasons (e.g. Chinese New Year, mid-Autumn festival, etc).

    Two US carrier groups were stationed east of Taiwan, performing all sort of military exercises and provocation. UK carrier was also around with US groups. Japanese, Australian (plus some other nations) ships and/or planes are also involved. They tried to approach in mainland/Taiwan direction, especially at night. There were also unknown number of submarines. In addition, strategy bombers (B-52) were flew in from Guam.

    China responded with 38 and 39 sorties on Oct 1 and 2 respectively, to intercept the US led forces. On Oct 3, there were 19, and Oct 4, a record breaking 54 (Different sources reported different numbers). None of these confrontations have to do with Taiwan. But Taiwanese hypocritically complain, against China. Ironically, they are quiet about the real provocateurs.

    To add further hypocrisy, US States department also complains about China:

    “The United States is very concerned by the People’s Republic of China’s provocative military activity near Taiwan, which is destabilizing, risks miscalculations, and undermines regional peace and stability. We urge Beijing to cease its military, diplomatic, and economic pressure and coercion against Taiwan.”

    https://www.state.gov/increasing-peoples-republic-of-china-military-pressure-against-taiwan-undermines-regional-peace-and-stability/

    So, what is China up to? Really? No question is asked though, what is US up to.

    • Agree: GomezAdddams
    • Replies: @mulga mumblebrain
  29. Carney says:

    Why is it so inconceivable that China would give up on Taiwan?

    History is replete with such giving up, even after generations or centuries of bitter, brutal refusal to do so.

    The UK gave up on Ireland and the rest of its empire including areas mostly inhabited by fellow Anglo-Celts. France gave up on Quebec and Louisiana, as well as Algeria, Vietnam, and other places close to its heart. Germany gave up on Alsace-Lorraine, Schleswig-Holstein, East Prussia, etc. Austria gave up Silesia and the Tyrol. Hungary gave up on Transylvania. Sudan gave up on South Sudan. Indonesia gave up on East Timor. Pakistan gave up on East Pakistan (Bangladesh).

    Many of these claims are centuries old and have close ethnic, linguistic, and cultural ties.

    Just because the current Beijing regime and the CCP has talked itself into a credibility dilemma and painted itself into a corner doesn’t magically make Taiwan something that all Chinese are forever fanatically committed to go to war for regardless of costs or consequences.

    And this very regime has gone through much bigger reversals than giving up on Taiwan, and come through intact already.

    Recall that the PRC broke with the USSR on the grounds that Khrushchev was not hostile enough to the USA — followed by the PRC allying itself with the USA against the USSR.

    Recall that the PRC went from the Great Leap Forward of maximum Communist extremism, and the Cultural Revolution of hysterical Mao-worship, to relaxing much of its economic policies and allowing de-facto market economics and criticizing Mao as having made serious mistakes – all while still affirming that Communism is correct and that Mao was “70% right”.

    If their ideological theoreticians could epicycle-upon-epicycle and “well ACKshully” their way through such brazen 180s, they can handle a cooldown from prior fervent insistence that Taiwan is the be-all end-all.

    • Agree: raga10
    • Disagree: JimDandy, Daemon
  30. It is the Air Defense IDENTIFICATION Zone, not the Air Defense Zone. Of course many of the racist, Western presstitute hate-mongers simply say Taiwan’s ‘air-space’ or some other lie. The Taiwanese ADIZ covers three mainland Chinese provinces, so is a sick joke by the compradore regime. The Chinese flew south of Taiwan, just off China’s coast, like US planes flying over the Caribbean or UK planes flying over the North Sea, and it takes a real lying, racist, Imperial disinformationist to turn this into an outrage, but the Western MSM is full of such vermin.

    • Replies: @raga10
  31. @Carney

    You tell ’em White Boy. Unfortunately, unlike the compradore detritus in power in Taiwan, the Chinese are not going to ‘tremble and obey’ their Western betters-get used to it.

    • Agree: Godfree Roberts
  32. @d dan

    This is the USA, the greatest force for Evil in all history, that sanctions and subverts Cuba and Venezuela, and has malevolently intervened throughout Latin America, ALWAYS to the detriment of its people, for 200 years. The vicious hypocrisy is stupefying.

    • Agree: Ann Nonny Mouse
  33. d dan says:
    @Carney

    “Why is it so inconceivable that China would give up on Taiwan?”

    And why should this be any concerns for you? This should be an issue decided by the 1.4 billion people.

    “History is replete with such giving up, …”

    History is also replete with busy-body and evil forces stirring problems and interfering into other people’s businesses and to cause internal fighting.

    “Just because the current Beijing regime and the CCP has talked itself into a credibility dilemma and painted itself into a corner…”

    No, that is not the reason Beijing wants to take back Taiwan. You probably already know some history of the Taiwan issue, but intentionally trying to obfuscate the problems.

    “… they can handle a cooldown from prior fervent insistence that Taiwan is the be-all end-all.”

    Beijing has been super-patient, waiting for over 70 years, making all efforts, attempting all possible means, to try to peacefully unify with Taiwan. But of course, you don’t want to talk about them, and you are avoiding mentioning of the roles of foreign powers and foreigners (including people like you) in sabotaging their reconciliation.

  34. @Greta Handel

    I also raised an eyebrow at that bit of ‘everyone knows’ nonsense. Interesting how the media happily regurgitated that bit of misinformation.

  35. raga10 says:
    @mulga mumblebrain

    It is the Air Defense IDENTIFICATION Zone, not the Air Defense Zone.

    That is true and it is also true that zone also stretches over the mainland for some reason, and I’m willing to agree that it shouldn’t.

    But it is equally true that size or shape of that zone didn’t suddenly change – the number of Chinese flights over it did; it increased dramatically. And for the record, they were not flying over the mainland part of that zone – they were flying over the water, pretty close to Taiwanese shores:

  36. 2021 less 1776 is 245 years for the USA and during this time 17 years were enjoyed in peace. Otherwise USA was at war —–over there somewhere—to keep Americans safe at home —South Chicago secure- Seattle safe—Baltimore balanced – DC wired for action…lobbyists paid…

  37. mike99588 says:
    @raga10

    Very clever the way Chinese container ships lose so many containers.

    Poor quality and safety as an advanced national security measure.
    Even cheaper than the maritime militia…

  38. Here’s to you Niccola and Bart.
    Rest forever here in our hearts.
    ….
    27,000,000 innocent Mandarins is a small price to show the world how much they need the protection of England’s wayward colonies.

    “It’s a small price and we think its worth it.” Madame Not-Alright.

  39. mike99588 says:
    @d dan

    If Peking didn’t have such silly geese running things, they could have waited another 10-20 years to let the US just waltz over the cliff and Taiwan become more dependent. And saved a fortune on the stolen toy tech.

    Instead you have a big swinging dick that is pissing off all the neighbors, and apparently, wants to take them all on – trade war or real one, instead of improving the infrastructure.

    If there is a Mandate of Heaven, it seems to be flushing the toilet on CCP lately, or maybe that’s just CCP stealing other people’s rain.

    Enjoy that long winter as you shovel that last coal bit from Oz…

    • Replies: @d dan
    , @mulga mumblebrain
  40. “We came, we saw, Formosa suffered.” “cackle cackle cackle” ~ Bill Clinton’s wife.

    • Replies: @mike99588
  41. It’s all so laughable.

    US, a country created by wiping out native population and stole SW from Mexico and used force to Hawaii… is now preaching to China about Taiwan isn’t Chinese.

    Moral hubris of America is demented.

    And after what US pulled in Ukraine, of course, Russia is the aggressor.

    • Agree: Derer
  42. raga10 says:

    Very clever the way Chinese container ships lose so many containers.

    Poor quality and safety as an advanced national security measure.

    Just poor quality and safety; two of Chinese trademarks. Also, simple laws of physics: The sea is always going to be stronger than the strongest ship… if you stack containers sky-high then send them out into storms and huge waves what do you expect is going to happen?

    Chinese are not the only offenders in this regard and lost containers are actually becoming a real problem for shipping of all kinds, everywhere. I am simply saying, military are not immune. I’m far from being pro-Chinese, but accidents at sea do happen regularly.

    • Replies: @d dan
  43. Were China’s warnings about crossing the Yalu threats?
    NO.
    No, Sir.
    They were not.

    Formosa, same same.

    • Replies: @The Mestizo
  44. Controlled by Japan but claimed by China, the Senkakus are uninhabited rocks in the East China Sea.

    It’s not about the rocks, but the water around them. And what lies below.

    Chinese President Xi Jinping and his party are unapologetic about their Communist values and Marxist beliefs.

    Which reduce to, as always, “our hold on power”.

    Still, China has its problems, none of which would be solved and all of which would be exacerbated by any major clash with the United States.

    We could always reïmpose the embargo.

  45. d dan says:
    @mike99588

    “If Peking didn’t have such silly geese running things, they could have waited another 10-20 years to let the US just waltz over the cliff…”

    And why do you worry for them? Because you are concerned for the welfare of Chinese in mainland and Taiwan? Don’t make me laugh, OK.

    “Instead you have a big swinging dick that is pissing off all the neighbors…”

    Again, if that is really the case, why do you complain? Because you are also concerned about the welfare of China’s neighbors? This is amusing coming from you.

    “trade war or real one”

    This is getting more fun. Trade war – heard the US record trade deficit with China? How is Trump’s trade war goes with China?

    “instead of improving the infrastructure.”

    Hahaha, China is not improving the infrastructure…., but, but, but US,… Hahahaha.

    “Enjoy that long winter as you shovel that last coal bit from Oz”

    So, you believe the electricity shortage is due to reduced import from Oz? Then, you should lobby Australia to ban their export of coal, shouldn’t you? Please ask them to ban their export of iron ore and agricultural products as well. Please, help to topple the Chi-com, I am begging you.

    Talking to stupid person like you is entertaining.

    • Replies: @mike99588
  46. raga10 says:
    @d dan

    Beijing has been super-patient, waiting for over 70 years, making all efforts, attempting all possible means, to try to peacefully unify with Taiwan.

    Puzzling, isn’t it? It’s almost as if Taiwanese didn’t wish to be “peacefully united” with China…

    • LOL: Carney
    • Replies: @Daemon
    , @nokangaroos
    , @d dan
  47. Anonymous[833] • Disclaimer says:

    “Refusing to invest in your own defense, and relying on America to come and fight your wars, seems to be a tradition with America’s allies.”

    You know why, Pat? Because being a pawn in the American Empire is NOT to be free. They do what they are told, like it or not. The hell with paying for it all as well. Same deal even throughout the EU and NATO. If Washington is going to run all our foreign affairs much to our detriment, Washington can pay for it.

    • Agree: nokangaroos
  48. Yee says:

    raga10,

    I have zero classified information, of course, but I would bet it just hit a container;

    Couldn’t they turn on the lights to see what they hit afterwards?

    I mean it’s the most advanced submarine in the world. You wouldn’t want to risk guess work, you want to know exactly what has harmed it.

    • Replies: @raga10
  49. @peter mcloughlin

    You are speaking like a true Westerner. No peaceful co-existence, no co-operation to solve humanity’s near intractable problems, only the pursuit of ‘Full Spectrum Domiance’ over ALL humanity, FOREVER. As the White God decrees. The Chinese preference for harmony within society and between societies is like a silver cross to the Western Dracula-it fills it with fear, terror and violent rage. Behind this war drive, 100% the creation of the West, is race hatred, raw and stinking.

    • Replies: @Badger Down
    , @mike99588
  50. @mike99588

    Perhaps the dumbest racist hereabouts, and there’s a lot of competition. I love the ‘Peking’ bit-I bet it makes you feel tough.

    • Replies: @mike99588
  51. @raga10

    They were flying over waters immediately off-shore from the Chinese mainland, like US planes flying over the Gulf of Mexico, you buffoon.

  52. No matter how much agitprop ghost writers for has-been talking heads disseminate for Operation Mockingbird, no real Americans are every going to care about Taiwan.

    I blame that sentence on the convoluted clown world it reflects.

  53. Daemon says:
    @raga10

    That argument didn’t work for the Confederates and it won’t work for the denizens of Reddit island either.

    • Replies: @mike99588
  54. Daemon says:
    @Carney

    You dont leave the Middle Empire without a fight. Vietnam had to fight dozens of wars for their eventual independence. The idea that the Taiwanese can simply bask in the protection of Uncle Sam and not fight for their own freedom is delusional.

  55. Andreas says:

    The U.S. State Department countered by issuing a stern statement warning Beijing about the adverse effect on regional “stability” of such “provocative military activity.”

    LOL

    This latest challenge comes after the public humiliation of the United States in Afghanistan, about which China has been crowing since August.

    Meanwhile the cartels are openly mocking the Muricans – or is that maricons? – at the border while also now apparently firing tracers at National Guard outposts.

    If after the fall of Afghanistan and the humiliation of the U.S. defeat and departure, the U.S. abandoned Taiwan, U.S. credibility would be shot in Asia. Asia and the world would conclude that China owned the future.

    “Would be”? Shouldn’t we already be using the past tense?

    The bottoms who now run the US can’t even control their own borders. What will they do to threaten the Chinese? I can’t believe Beijing is even the slightest bit worried.

  56. @raga10

    No one asks the Taiwanese, let´s face it (and I doubt they are separatist).

    Look on the map: The island could be populated by reeking unicorns and
    the Chinese would have to take it, only to loosen the US stranglehold;
    for the same reason, the Usual Suspects won´t let go (and their satraps know
    they will dangle in the breeze before they can say “oops!”).

    My money is on a color revolution (should they manage to beat it down by
    definitely not nice methods, drone saturation is the next option; the mainlanders
    are not going to bomb their own).

    • Replies: @Weaver
  57. eudion2 says:
    @mike99588

    Missiles can’t occupy a country, only destroy it.

    • Replies: @mike99588
  58. mike99588 says:
    @eudion2

    yep, take out the capital items first in a saturation salvo.

  59. SteveK9 says:

    It is not our responsibility to ‘ensure the rights’ … of ANYONE, outside the American Nation. And, since the rights inside our own country are those under threat, it would be a good idea for ‘conservatives’ to forget about the Empire and focus on keeping America a free country.

  60. mike99588 says:
    @d dan

    No concern for CCP, just commentary.

    I spend too much time “next door”.

    It’s going to be a long winter with your flooded coal mines and others buying sweet Oz coal…

  61. SteveK9 says:
    @peter mcloughlin

    You are failing to understand the most important factor after World War II, nuclear weapons and why History is no longer a guide. Why has there been no WWW III for 80 years? Nuclear weapons. An all-out war for World domination is no longer possible, since the ‘victory’ would be over a smoldering ash heap.

  62. @The Mestizo

    Sorry, it was late for me when I posted that.
    Explanation:During the Korean Civil War that followed the Japanese occupation in the 20th century,
    China warned general McAurthur to stay clear of the Yalu River. As soon as American reconnisance forces crossed the Yalu River, China counter attacked. BIGLY

    Today, They are NOT issuing empty threats regarding Taiwan. They mean business. If the provocations continue, the CCP can clear the rebell KMT away in one swift stroke. A simple blockade would do the trick.

    Washington wants this. 27,000,000 Taiwanese will be a small price to pay to keep the fearful world in Washington’s orbit through fear of the boggyman China.

    A CCP blockade of the KMT’s islands, rather than an invasion would ruin Washington’s plan A. The new boggyman meme would still be applied against China, though with much less esffectiveness.

  63. mike99588 says:
    @Daemon

    You know, the Confederates actually mined thorium because of a tin shortage.
    Too bad they didn’t know what to do with it…

    • Replies: @Daemon
  64. d dan says:
    @raga10

    “Beijing has been super-patient, waiting for over 70 years… to peacefully unify with Taiwan.”

    Puzzling, isn’t it? It’s almost as if Taiwanese didn’t wish to be “peacefully united” with China…

    Blah, blah, blah. As if foreign interferences play no roles in creating the so-called Taiwanese “wishes” – including from stupid and evil foreigner like you.

  65. anon[117] • Disclaimer says:

    The Chinese believe that all ethnic Chinese all over the world are “their people” and thus share a kinship. Spats between China and Taiwan/HK are seen as fights in the same family. As such it would be monumentally stupid for the US to go to war with China over Taiwan or HK. Sooner or later these countries will all become one. It’s none of our stinking business to try to get in the middle, just like fights between all Muslims are “all in the family”.

    America needs to shut down all our bases overseas, bring back our troops and station them in the southern border to keep the country from invaders from the south.

    Further, we need to shut down all immigration, send all non-whites packing, be they Asian, Indian, Jews, African or Latino, these people will never be loyal to us, or fully assimilate. As Samuel Huntington said in his book Who Are We? America is decidedly a Western, Protestant nation, a multicultural America will no longer be America. Especially now with remote work taking off, there is no longer any reason to keep importing tech workers, and if we stop that flow, there will be much less need for migrant workers from Latin America to build their homes, mow their lawns, farm & serve their food. End the H1b, H2b, OPT, CPT, L1, B1, EB5, J1 and all spousal visas. Cancel and nullify all green cards. Rescind citizenship from all dual citizens. America for Americans only.

    • Agree: Badger Down
  66. d dan says:
    @raga10

    “Poor quality and safety as an advanced national security measure.”
    “Just poor quality and safety; two of Chinese trademarks”

    LOL. Here, commenters are talking about US nuclear submarine accident. The supposedly most technological “advanced” submarine, operated by the supposedly most “competent” staff of the military, respected by Americans to be the supposedly most “trustworthy” department of the entire federal government, according to multiple surveys.

    And immediately but not surprisingly, the blames go to the “poor quality and safety” of Chinese.

    Correct. It is the poor quality and SAFTEY of Chinese. That must be the reasons that cause the accident.

    • Replies: @Weaver
    , @raga10
  67. Memejon says:

    If I switch uncle joe with xi, then it comes out the same. When does yahoo news allow comments again like this news outlet?

  68. mike99588 says:
    @mulga mumblebrain

    That’s the great thing about you MM, you have such nice tender thin skin.

    The Peking bit makes me feel cute.
    Like when Japan helps you guys with that “hot” new dish, Peking Duck n Cover.

  69. mike99588 says:
    @The Mestizo

    Xi’s latest offer of free assistance, a new line of Formosa ceramic tiles…

    • Replies: @The Mestizo
  70. Weaver says:

    Yet, though facing the world’s most menacing power 100 miles away, Taiwan, as of 2019, was still spending less than 2% of GDP on defense.

    Refusing to invest in your own defense, and relying on America to come and fight your wars, seems to be a tradition with America’s allies.

    Boom! Great article, as always.

  71. Weaver says:
    @nokangaroos

    Exactly. China is being forced to take Taiwan because of US bullying.

    If not for the constant US threat, China would probably, or at least possibly, behave differently. The US is stoking China into a global beast. China might not have pursued such a path on its own.

    The US has inept people running its foreign policy.

    • Replies: @Carney
  72. Weaver says:
    @d dan

    The US is in decline. US cars are dangerous, for example. If I say Chinese cars are dangerous, I don’t mean to suggest US cars are better.

    Japanese cars are currently much better than Chinese, however.

    • Replies: @d dan
  73. Anon[990] • Disclaimer says:

    Peking hasn’t made any threats towards Taiwan. Learn the difference between a ADIZ and a ADZ. Check out the boundries of Taiwan’s ADIZ

  74. Carney says:
    @d dan

    You asked why I would be concerned about whether Beijing would give up on Taiwan.

    First, I was responding to this claim in the article:

    China will never relinquish its claim to Taiwan.

    This presumption underlines most discussion and analysis of the topic. The current claims and parameters of the current CCP leaders are simply accepted without question. That ignores how situations change. We thought the Soviet Union would last forever, that the Japanese would remain fanatical Emperor-worshippers forever, etc.

    Second, I’m aware of the many reasons Beijing wants to take over Taiwan. I’m not trying to obfuscate anything. When I say that the CCP has talked itself into a credibility dilemma and painted itself into a corner, I’m describing the reality that on top of whatever its original motivations may have been, the CCP now ALSO has the issue of maintaining credibility, not losing face, because of its past statements and stances, and the longer those continue and the more fervent the statements are, the harder it is to reverse course, no matter what the issue or motivation.

    Third, it’s truly heartwarming to read your description of the patience and restraint that the brutal totalitarian regime in Beijing has exercised by not yet launching a war of aggressive conquest against a democratic neighbor that just wants to be left alone. What would be more impressive, even granting the questionable premise that Beijing has any legal or moral right to start such a war, is if the tyrants in Beijing had been able to exercise the restraint necessary to actually live up to their “one country, two systems” promises in Hong Kong BEFORE taking over Taiwan. Scrupulous adherence to the deal, allowing Hong Kong to flourish untouched, with a robust culture of free speech including tough criticism of the CCP and Xi, would have reassured Taiwan that it could trust Beijing’s promises, and made Taiwan willing to make the same deal. THEN, once it was too late and CCP military and police were in place, Beijing could have reneged on both Hong Kong and Taiwan, cracking down on both. Instead, the CCP thugs were too eager to thug in Hong Kong to just wait, even though an opportunity to do much more thuggery in Taiwan would have presented itself had they just restrained themselves for a while. Now, they’ve stupidly destroyed the case for “one country, two systems” and destroyed any ability to get Taiwan to peacefully unify. SO ANY REFUSAL OF TAIWAN TO UNIFY NOW IS ENTIRELY THE FAULT OF STUPID CCP THUGGERY.

    • Agree: raga10, Grahamsno(G64)
  75. raga10 says:
    @Yee

    Couldn’t they turn on the lights to see what they hit afterwards?

    If the accident happened while they were on the surface, they could. But I doubt they would be on the surface in China Sea. Underwater submarine is completely blind – no windows, therefore no lights either.

    They will determine what they hit by examining the damage, and maybe from the position where the accident happened. For example if it was a wreck they hit, it will still be there.

    They probably already know, but I doubt they will make this information public.

  76. Carney says:
    @Weaver

    Right, everything is always the fault of white people, especially America.

    Non-whites have no agency and no responsibility. Everything they do is entirely the mechanically determined result of prior decisions by whites; making non-whites in effect controlled by whites. Non-whites are like billiard balls being struck by the white ball shot by the white pool shooter.

    • Replies: @Weaver
    , @Weaver
  77. raga10 says:
    @d dan

    Correct. It is the poor quality and SAFTEY of Chinese.

    LOL, you really want to go there? Made in China is synonymous with Shit Quality and as for work safety, I’m sure I could find an incident or two if I tried really hard. I am not even going to start this discussion.

    And the best navy with the best equipment can hit something they couldn’t see. Besides, I never said US Navy is best at anything; I leave that to Americans.

    • Replies: @d dan
    , @mulga mumblebrain
  78. d dan says:
    @Weaver

    “If I say Chinese cars are dangerous, I don’t mean to suggest US cars are better.”

    Certainly that is the logic. But when discussing the nuclear submarine accident, what is the point of bring up Chinese “quality and safety”? What is the relevancy? Why don’t they mention the Indian “quality and safety” instead?

    And this is NOT even just a blatant form of whataboutism (i.e. to deflect one’s own incompetency by mentioning others). Those commenters go a step further. They are actually hinting that the possible cause of the accident is due to Chinese containers and Chinese’s poor safety practices.

    It is an laughable and stupid blame-China-ism on full display.

    • Replies: @raga10
    , @Weaver
    , @raga10
  79. d dan says:
    @raga10

    “Made in China is synonymous with Shit Quality”

    But, but, but,… who buys those “shit quality” products from China? You? American? Everyone? Who is the biggest buyers?

    “I’m sure I could find an incident or two”

    Impressive. You can find some in a big country like China. Great argument.

    Talking about dumb and dumber.

    • Replies: @raga10
  80. raga10 says:
    @Carney

    Yes, I’m sure the events in Hong Kong did nothing to help Taiwanese to embrace the prospect of “unification”.

    BTW, responding to the original article: maybe Taiwan was spending less than 2% of GDP on their military in 2019, but they ramped up their spending to more than 2.3% in 2021 with yet more increase approved for 2022. In any case, it wouldn’t matter if they increased it to 90% of their GDP, it would still be a drop in the bucket compared to mainland.

  81. raga10 says:
    @d dan

    But when discussing the nuclear submarine accident, what is the point of bring up Chinese “quality and safety”? What is the relevancy?

    The relevance was the cause of the accident, which I said was likely a collision with a lost container. Number of containers falling overboard is related to overall quality and safety standards of ships transporting them and China is not known for either.

    • Replies: @Badger Down
  82. raga10 says:
    @d dan

    But, but, but,… who buys those “shit quality” products from China?

    There is no “but”. Blame for turning out shit product lies with the maker exclusively; buyers are the victims.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  83. Literally everything in tis is false or some half truth – except that the PRC won’t give up Taiwan. Who comes up with this?? It’s like a nonsense State Dept. press release.
    Fun fact for you – the ROC in Taiwan claims the Diayou islands that Japan took and it also claims the islands in the South China Sea… How did you miss that?

    • Replies: @mike99588
  84. @Greta Handel

    Because this is nonsense propaganda. He also left out the part of all the nations that joined with the US doing naval drills in the area… That’s what the “warning to America” was.

  85. Weaver says:
    @d dan

    It’s well that you defend your country. That’s very appropriate. I expect that China will improve its reputation with time. The Japanese were associated with low quality, at first. China is just much larger. It’s likely much more difficult to transform itself for that and for other reasons.

    Whatever people say about the Chinese, everyone knows the Chinese race is civilised. It is respected, for what that’s worth. Chinese work hard, don’t cause violence, do well in school. We see that everywhere.

    In the US, real “racism” against Chinese tends to be such that it’s just assumed they’re coders or doctors, holders of some other high paying job. And the universities try their best to keep Chinese out, because they want diversity. The Chinese, and other East Asians, beat out everyone.

    So, you shouldn’t feel too sensitive, in my view. In the US, the perception is a sort of unspoken East Asian supremacy. I could compete if I returned to school. Most whites cannot.

    • Replies: @d dan
    , @bombthe3gorgesdam
  86. raga10 says:
    @d dan

    They are actually hinting that the possible cause of the accident is due to Chinese containers and Chinese’s poor safety practices.

    I admit there are plenty of dodgy operators in the shipping industry, but this accident happened near China, not India or Panama.

    The funny thing is, I was actually defending you for once – my original point was that this was most likely just an accident rather than deliberate action of the Chinese. Yet you managed to turn it against yourself somehow, dumb spam bot that you are.

    • Replies: @d dan
  87. @eudion2

    China isn’t stupid… So they have thousands of PCL 191 long range guided rockets… They can easily reach the island. Much cheaper than using missiles.

  88. If China invaded Taiwan and took it over, there would be almost no change to the average resident of Taiwan. If anything, Taiwan would become more prosperous because they would have duty-free access to the enormous Chinese market for their manufactured goods. To the Biden administration however, it would be like a kick in the dentures, they would lose one of their main justifications for keeping troops in the Far East. There would be enormous pressure to take the troops home from Japan and Korea as Taiwan was seen as a country that was relatively weak militarily and needed big brother US to look after it. It’s a different story with Korea and Japan, two rich countries with formidable armed forces, who are more than able to look after themselves.

    • Replies: @mulga mumblebrain
  89. @raga10

    But here is the thing… According to the UN and most of the world – Taiwan is part of China… So there is no real zone in the first place. The US came up with that garbage. There was a gentleman’s agreement between the 2 sides that BOTH sides would stop crossing the median line… That was all part of the process of stopping tensions and the eventuality of peaceful reunification… In recent years the authorities have decided they no longer want to abide by One China. So forget this zone – in the past 2 years the PRC has got over the median line… When intercepted they brushed off the islands radio chatter by replying in effect “there is no line – this is all China”. The DPP has made their bed and now they have to lie in it… But they don’t care I guess since the western media will tell lies for them.

  90. @Carney

    You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. You might as well work for the NED. The same “thugs” who were behind the Sunflower Movement in Taiwan simply shifted the tactic to Hong Kong.
    Do you have any clue what the Basic Law of Hong Kong says??? National security laws were REQUIRED under Article 23 of such… The laws were not passed over 20 years after Hong Kong’s return to China.
    And what is this garbage about the press?? Nobody stopped anything in the Hong Kong press until they started working with foreign elements like the NED to spread propaganda to promote separatism in Hong Kong. Freedom of press was guaranteed indeed – but that could only take place within the space of national security FIRST. 1 country comes before 2 systems. The handover promised Hong Kong’s capitalist system and way of life would last for 50 years. Except Hong Kong was NEVER allowed to disrespect London when it was a British colony and was NEVER allowed to be used as a weapon against London. So to claim China stopping that garbage from happening is a renege on the Joint Declaration is a low grade psyop that the gullible people of the world who listen to western propaganda believe.
    Why did the riots start in 2019…?? A hong kong youth flew to taiwan with his girlfriend and murdered her and went back to hong kong. So a law was proposed to close the loophole that all Chinese territories could extradite criminals to the different courts. The NED/CIA took the chance to stir up the rioters… Many trained by the same thugs from the Sunflower Movement on Taiwan. But China’s biggest problem is it is nowhere as good at lying as the western media.

    Are you a professional liar – or just horribly misinformed?

  91. Yee says:

    Carney,

    the brutal totalitarian regime in Beijing has exercised by not yet launching a war of aggressive conquest against a democratic neighbor that just wants to be left alone.

    Taiwan is not “a neighbor”, it’s a province of China stated by constitutions of both ROC and PRC… Any attempt to change that is unconstitutional. Officials ruling the province are “democratic” does not make unconstitutional actions acceptable.

    If “democratic” US officials are allowed to ignore the US constitutions, it’s your own business, but China do not allow such.

    • Agree: mulga mumblebrain
    • Thanks: showmethereal
  92. Bookish1 says:

    Ok now let’s get real. The reason China wants Taiwan is because Taiwan makes the most important and best computer chips in the world. If China can control that market they got the world.

    • Replies: @mulga mumblebrain
  93. Daemon says:
    @mike99588

    Mass suicide by nuclear hellfire requires massive cojones or at the very least a society-wide psychosis on a massive scale. I dont think either population has it in them.

  94. d dan says:
    @raga10

    “cause of the accident, which I said was likely a collision with a lost container. Number of containers falling overboard is related to overall quality and safety standards of ships transporting them and China is not known for either.”

    US navy has a long tradition of collision with many things throughout the world: a destroyer collided with a container ship (how fast can a container ship move?) in Singapore, another one collided with an oil tanker near Japan, submarine collided with Soviet one,… (many more)

    So here we have another of their most advanced submarine collided, and the first thing you speculate is China’s quality and safety problem.

    “Blame for turning out shit product lies with the maker exclusively; buyers are the victims.”

    “shit” products that billions of buyers pay trillions dollars to buy, consciously, willingly, increasingly and repeatedly from China, years after years. But, but, but, never mind, it is China’s fault, and they produce “shit” products, and the buyer is the victim.

    “I was actually defending you for once – my original point was that this was most likely just an accident rather than deliberate action of the Chinese.”

    Claiming that “it is an accident” is actually “defending” me? Hahahaha. Is there even an alternative: China deliberately throws container down in South China Sea to damage US submarine??? You always win. Great argument as usual.

    • LOL: showmethereal
    • Replies: @raga10
  95. d dan says:
    @Carney

    “This presumption underlines most discussion and analysis of the topic.”

    Hahaha, you are performing an “analysis” of the topic.

    “CCP has talked itself into a credibility dilemma and painted itself into a corner, I’m describing the reality that on top of whatever its original motivations… ”

    But not a single words about the “original motivations” in your comments. And talking about Taiwan is not CCP’s painting itself into a corner. They are a real demand by ordinary people – you know, the demand of the 1.4 billions that you likely think are stupid and brainwashed.

    “conquest against a democratic neighbor”

    You already know Taiwan is not a nation, asshole.

    “granting the questionable premise that Beijing has any legal or moral right to start such a war,”

    The civil war of 1949 has NOT finished. Beijing is not interested in start another NEW one. Only US and Japan are interested.

    ” live up to their “one country, two systems””

    Which has been working fine, until US and UK tried to color-revolution it.

    “SO ANY REFUSAL OF TAIWAN TO UNIFY NOW IS ENTIRELY THE FAULT OF STUPID CCP THUGGERY.”

    No, the fault is in evil people like you and the thuggery of America.

  96. @Bookish1

    Oh, dear-another racist who imagines that the Chinese cannot make chips themselves. What is it-has ‘communism’ addled their brains, or has something pickled yours.

    • Replies: @Bookish1
  97. @Joe Paluka

    I saw the compradore thug so-called ‘Foreign Minister’ of Taiwan being interviewed on ABC TV here, but one of the innumerable local Sinophobe hate-mongers. The thug made barely disguised threats against those in Taiwan sympathetic to China, which is a very sizeable proportion of the population. As ever US stooges are fascists with a thin veneer, or not, of ‘democracy’ barely disguising their true features.

  98. d dan says:
    @Weaver

    “In the US, real “racism” against Chinese tends to be such that it’s just assumed they’re coders or doctors, holders of some other high paying job.”

    I wish the racism is as mild as you describe. You are giving too much leeway to the (Whites) perpetrator and too little to the (Asian & Chinese) victim.

    For example, in the last few years, you hear Trump, Pompeo, Bannon and media demonizing China with “China virus”, “China steals”, “China cheats” 24/7. We see crimes against Asians jumped 150% in 2020, while overall crime rate declined throughout the country. And it happened also in Canada, Australia, UK, Europe,… Over 70% has negative view of China (the same % against Iraq before the Iraqi war)…

    And last week, US, UK, Australia, Japan and others sent 3 carrier groups and strategic bombers during Chinese national holiday to perform all sort of provocations, and then somehow still manage to blame China for “aggression”. And when one of their most advanced submarine haphazardly collided with some unknown object, stupid commenters here even blame Chinese practices and Chinese “shit products”.

    No, this is not me being over-sensitive. This is war drum, pre-war preparation and all-out, ugly psychological and propaganda warfare in full swing. You need to speak out more forcefully against other Americans rather than persuading me to be more understanding of their irresponsible behaviors.

    • Replies: @Joe Paluka
    , @Weaver
  99. @raga10

    Pathetic, sniveling, Hindutva troll. Nobody talks of the quality of Indian goods, because there are none worthy of mention. The open latrines are world-class, however.

    • Replies: @raga10
  100. raga10 says:
    @d dan

    how fast can a container ship move?

    About 15-17 knots; pretty much the same as the navy ship will move unless it’s in a real hurry. In any case, I’m not about to defend US Navy; sure, they’ve had their share of blunders, as did most navies.

    But, but, but, never mind, it is China’s fault, and they produce “shit” products, and the buyer is the victim.

    Exactly, you’re finally getting it.

    btw…

    “I’m sure I could find an incident or two”

    Impressive. You can find some in a big country like China. Great argument.

    Boy, sarcasm goes right over your head, doesn’t it? That’s probably because you’re so short.

    Is there even an alternative: China deliberately throws container down in South China Sea to damage US submarine??? You always win. Great argument as usual.

    Yes, thank you – except that’s not what I said. There are actually a number of alternatives in this case: collision with a Chinese submarine or UUV – unlikely in my opinion for a number of reasons. Collision with sea bed or a wreck on the bottom – possible but I think it would cause more damage.

    But the idea that China deliberately throws containers overboard? Nonsense, they dump enough of them already thanks to their sheer incompetence. I think collision with some random junk is most likely, considering how much random junk you’re already dumping into the ocean.

    • Replies: @d dan
  101. the world’s most menacing power

    Yes, Buchanan actually said that China menaces more than the US, the UK, and “israel”. Almost every sentence is rubbish.

    • Replies: @mulga mumblebrain
  102. @mulga mumblebrain

    Excellent! You are exactly right. And if Buchanan were to read a little, he might see that the reason China “has historic claims in every direction” is because everyone, including (((Sassoon’s))) British East India Company, was taking chunks out of China a century or two ago.

    • Thanks: showmethereal
  103. @raga10

    Relevance is the sub blindly crashing into anything. If you can’t avoid hitting a container, how are you going to avoid hitting a fishing boat, rock, coral reef, or wagonette?

    • Replies: @Deep Thought
    , @raga10
  104. raga10 says:
    @mulga mumblebrain

    Nobody talks of the quality of Indian goods, because there are none worthy of mention.

    Nobody talks about Indian goods, because India has nothing to do with this subject. But for the record, in my experience Indian goods are indeed terrible. Are you happy now? Do you think I’m offended? I’ve got no connection to India whatsoever, you mumble-brained idiot.

    • Replies: @mulga mumblebrain
  105. d dan says:
    @raga10

    “Exactly, you’re finally getting it…. Boy, sarcasm goes right over your head, doesn’t it? ”

    Only empty taunting now? Nothing new to support your claim that US submarine accident “caused” by poor Chinese quality? Come on. I am disappointed.

    “alternatives in this case: collision with a Chinese submarine or UUV”

    Hahaha, Chinese-this Chinese-that again. But you forget collision with panda poo. And this supposedly alternative is a better or worse alternative? Come again, how did you “defend” me originally?

    Dumb and dumber as usual.

  106. @d dan

    The anti-Chinese rhetoric coming out of the mouths of politicians and media types does not necessarily represent the views and attitudes of most white Americans. As for the “150% increase” in crimes perpetrated against Asians in the US were mostly perpetrated by negroes who are not able to think things out, they just turn on the TV, hearing the Chinese did this or that and the negro decides to go out and bash a Chinese person. Whites who are able to think things out, don’t do things like this. Most whites just want to get on with their lives, buy more Chinese manufactured entertainment equipment and watch sports.

    • Replies: @d dan
  107. @Badger Down

    Relevance is the sub blindly crashing into anything. If you can’t avoid hitting a container, how are you going to avoid hitting a fishing boat, rock, coral reef, or wagonette?

    Don’t be so naïve! It was NOT an accidental hit. The shipping container had no radio to make calls.

    • LOL: nokangaroos
  108. @raga10

    But I thought westerners and capitalists go by the motto caveat emptor-buyer beware??? I guess it only counts when westerners want to get over on someone or squeeze profits… Got it.
    You know what is funny… Apple is considered one of the gold standards of US quality and yet they are produced in China (or Vietnam). GM and Tesla’s Chinese factories have less quality control issues than their US factories. That’s why Tesla exports more from China now than the US – especially since the pandemic (the one the western nations were ranked as “best able to manage a health crisis” before it hit). You should also tell BMW and Mercedes they are wrong about their Chinese factories – where they export vehicles from.

    Now if you want to talk local brands – strange though that Haier had to rescue GE Appliances and teach it how to do quality again. Even funnier is that Europeans who are now receiving Chinese EV brands like BYD and Xpeng note the build quality of those cars are higher than Tesla’s. Strange things… Strange strange strange.

    • Replies: @raga10
  109. Bookish1 says:
    @mulga mumblebrain

    Go Google chips and taiwan and see for yourself.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  110. It’s one thing to be a draft dodger and have something physically and/or mentally wrong with you. It’s another thing to be a draft dodger when there’s nothing wrong with you other than you are afraid you might get hurt or killed in a war. And it’s even a far worse thing to be a draft dodger (for a phony medical reason) so you can stay in school with aims of becoming a famous writer and consultant in the D.C. cesspool. Pat Buchanan fits the 3rd category perfectly. That’s exactly what he did.

    • Replies: @Rogue
  111. nsa says:

    Velly velly bad plostate gland make Patlick glumpy long time want stalt WW3. Chinee have many lalge nuke fileclacker mounted Big Wang long lange missile make amelika city smoking lubble long time no mole shopping mall no mole football stadium no mole gay plide palade hollible lainbow flag. Smoking lubble ladiation kill evelything so not shop walmalt buy chinee clap long time. Patlick velly not smalt get tleatment plostate be mole happy long time.

  112. anonymous[337] • Disclaimer says:
    @follyofwar

    We White Americans are the ones being deliberately replaced by millions of illegal aliens – which, per the UN, is a genocide.

    Given the genocide level of death, destruction and suffering that whitevils have caused around the world, perhaps there is such a thing as a “desirable” genocide? The world can definitely do with less of you supremacist soul-diseased vermin.

    Just saying.

    • Troll: mike99588
    • Replies: @bombthe3gorgesdam
  113. Saladin says:
    @Anon

    Chinese got whipped by the Indians

    You know what is worse that being a dindoo… being a deluded dindoo!

    • Agree: mulga mumblebrain
    • LOL: showmethereal
  114. d dan says:
    @Joe Paluka

    “The anti-Chinese rhetoric coming out of the mouths of politicians and media types does not necessarily represent the views and attitudes of most white Americans. ”

    I argued with Ron Unz on this point before, and I disagree. Trump and other politicians are astute and opportunistic. They don’t speak something that doesn’t resonate with the majority of the people (Whites or not). Trump was able to get the highest (or second highest) number of votes in the 200+ year history because he speaks things that are widely and readily accepted. This is further confirmed by the over 70% negative view of Americans against China. I am willing to bet that if there are survey on individual issue like lab leaks, China “unfair” trade practice or others, the negative view will be high too. And of course, we can sense this sentiment online as well, not just here, but everywhere in Internet, and throughout most Western countries. I don’t know whether these indicate “most Whites” or 30%, but I am certain they are unforgivably sizeable and alarming.

    “… perpetrated by negroes who are not able to think things out, … decides to go out and bash a Chinese person. ”

    There were some disputes about the percentage of crime perpetrated by Blacks versus Whites, But I think it misses the point. We all understand that Black is more crime-prone and simplistic, but this actually makes me more sympathetic and forgiving towards them. To rephrase one of Ron’s analogy, if someone unleash a dog to bite you, are you going to be angry at the dog or the person? We can argue who or which group is the “dog” and which is the “person”, but I am not falling into this simple trap to hate Blacks unconditionally just to relieve the White guilt. The most charitable view I can give is that the majority of the Whites, like the Blacks, are the “dog”. Accept that you are like Black, or admit the guilt, it is your choice.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @Joe Paluka
  115. Saladin says:
    @Carney

    Third, it’s… launching a war of aggressive conquest… THUGGERY.

    It would be best if whitevil mofers not indulge in such breathtaking hypocrisy. But then, that would be so contradictory to your soul-diseased kind’s nature, yeah?

  116. raga10 says:
    @Badger Down

    If you can’t avoid hitting a container, how are you going to avoid hitting a fishing boat, rock, coral reef, or wagonette?

    The fact is, all of these things happen. I mentioned already the case where Japanese sub hit a commercial ship it never saw coming. There was another collision between UK sub and a commercial ship too, I don’t remember the exact circumstances of that one. A few years ago American sub drove into an undersea mountain somewhere in the Pacific at full speed, because it wasn’t showing on their map. And then there was that time when UK and French subs completely randomly run into each other while submerged – they were both so quiet they never detected each other.

  117. raga10 says:
    @showmethereal

    But I thought westerners and capitalists go by the motto caveat emptor-buyer beware???

    “Westerners” are not a uniform group, you know, and personally I’m rather anti-capitalist. (you can find me in another post exclaiming that Marx was right about pretty much everything)

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  118. Ron Unz says:
    @d dan

    I argued with Ron Unz on this point before, and I disagree. Trump and other politicians are astute and opportunistic. They don’t speak something that doesn’t resonate with the majority of the people (Whites or not).

    I still say you’re seriously mistaken. America’s MSM is an extremely powerful propaganda-weapon, which can very easily shape public opinion, especially on an issue like hostility towards a particular foreign country. There’s Chomsky’s famous book Manufacturing Consent, and many other authors have thoroughly documented the process. Pointing popular anger in a particular direction isn’t very difficult.

    Here’s a data-point in support of my analysis. The American MSM largely dominates the entire Western world, including Europe, and during the same period hostility towards China has risen dramatically in all those places just like it has in the US.

    Or consider the example of Russia. Back 15-20 years ago, America was quite friendly towards Russia and Putin, but once the political elites and their compliant MSM shifted gears, so did popular sentiments.

  119. Yee says:

    d dan,

    Trump and other politicians are astute and opportunistic. They don’t speak something that doesn’t resonate with the majority of the people

    You are mistaken that the US runs a true democracy…

    The ruling class shapes public opinions, not the other way around. In ancient times, they used church to do it, in modern times, they use media.

    In any case, the results are the same whether it’s spontaneous or indoctrinated.

    • Replies: @d dan
  120. @Bookish1

    Your first issue is trusting the top things that come up in Google searches…. But in any event – chips are nowhere near the reason. This is a 70 year old unresolved civil war… Chips or no chips.

  121. Rogue says:
    @John Q Duped

    I would have no idea whether your classification of him is accurate or not.

    But he’s most certainly not a chickenhawk.

    I see him consistently warning against military entanglements, not being a ra ra fan for them.

    A neocon he definitely isn’t.

  122. @raga10

    Well my point is that it is mainly westerners that like to denigrate Chinese goods as “junk” (which they did to Japanese and Koreans only a few decades ago)…. But the idea that the people who came up with silk and porcelain don’t still have such things in their genes is wrong. This is how Chinese contract manufacturers work. If you want a \$2 trinket – you will get the quality of a \$2 trinket. If you want a \$5 shirt – you will get a \$5 shirt quality. If you want a \$75k car – you will get that. If you want your new Airbus assembled (the only one outside Europe) – you will get that. If you want a \$1200 computer in your pocket that can make video calls – you will get that. If you want junk – Chinese will make it for you… If you want precision or luxury – Chinese will make it for you. Your argument that Chinese ships have poor quality control and so drop containers into the ocean doesn’t add up. Considering China is the number one shipping nation by far – then of course it will drop a lot of containers. Can you prove that by percentage of volume that are lost by Chinese is higher than any others??? I’m sure the insurance companies could tell us….
    Kind of like how I remember China had a high speed train accident about 7 years ago and the whole world (well the west which thinks its opinion counts for the whole world) said ohhh – nobody will ride the trains because people will die all the time. Well – China carries more HSR passengers than the rest of the world combined – and it’s safety record is better than every other nation except Japan. In fact – China’s HSR has a better safety record than even normal speed trains in most countries – including Amtrak in the US. Those are the facts – but biased perception will say otherwise.

    • Replies: @raga10
  123. @d dan

    I can see where you’re coming from but I really think Mr. Unz hits the nail on the head with this one in his reply to you.

  124. @anonymous

    Why wouldn’t “whitevils” just nuke the entire planet on their way out of existence, taking every last one of you ungrateful homos with them into the grave? Whites have the power to do it, you believe they are evil, so why wouldn’t you expect them to do it?

  125. @Exile

    You are a self-confessed traitor and fifth columnist for china against your own country, so why aren’t you afraid that “our zionist occupational imperial government” will arrest you for your anti-american online activism?

    • Troll: mulga mumblebrain
  126. @Weaver

    Weav, you should try castrating yourself and then drying and grinding your severed genitalia into a fine powder and submissively offering it as a gift to these hateful anti-white chinese nationalists to whom you’re constantly kowtowing in the comments. Eunuchs have often played important roles in chinese history and you show all the signs of being a very good one.

    • LOL: Grahamsno(G64)
    • Troll: mulga mumblebrain
    • Replies: @Weaver
  127. d dan says:
    @Yee

    “The ruling class shapes public opinions, not the other way around.”

    Both you and Ron are right that some groups/classes (call it the “ruling class”, the media, the elites, deep state, the “Jews”, or whatever) have great influences on the public opinions and shape negative view toward others. But that is true also in every country and in every era (including China today). Ron Unz and Joe Paluka are either underestimating or downplaying the anti-Asian (and in fact anti many things that are non-White) grassroot racist sentiment and organic undercurrent in America society, historically and contemporarily. It is hard to tell how many are hardcore anti-Chinese (e.g. “kill all Chinks”, “Chink goes home”), and how many are moderate to mild stereotyping (e.g. tiger mom, uncreative). They are certainly unsurveyable. But past events tell me they are sizeable. Putting head in the sand will not sweep away this old and deep fissure.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Weaver
  128. Yee says:

    d dan,

    But that is true also in every country and in every era (including China today). Ron Unz and Joe Paluka are either underestimating or downplaying the anti-Asian (and in fact anti many things that are non-White) grassroot racist sentiment and organic undercurrent in America society, historically and contemporarily.

    Nobody automatically accept strangers into their home, city or country, it’s just human nature. Without someone exploiting the sentiment, those strangers would be gradually be accepted into the soceity.

    The first-tier cities in China are good examples. Chinese are worse than Whites. We don’t accept our own race. The natives disliked all those outsiders from other provinces. But a few decades later, they are accepted as part of life. There aren’t increasing hostility towards outsiders because the ruling class hasn’t been stoking it.

    • Replies: @d dan
  129. raga10 says:
    @showmethereal

    Well my point is that it is mainly westerners that like to denigrate Chinese goods as “junk” (which they did to Japanese and Koreans only a few decades ago

    Another possibility is, Westerners denigrated Japanese and Korean products as junk because they *were* junk! But as their quality improved, so did their perception in the West.

    I’ll tell you something else that not many people know: there was a time when *German* products were considered junk throughout Europe. Right up to the later part of the 19th century in fact, being made in Germany had about the same connotations that made in China does today. German industrialists and traders eventually realised this was bad for their business, and made a determined and organised effort to change this perception as well as actually improve their quality. As the history shows, they were quite successful.

    In short: if you want to change our perception quit complaining about racism and lift your game.

    • Agree: mike99588
    • Replies: @d dan
    , @raga10
    , @showmethereal
  130. @bombthe3gorgesdam

    If you are an example of the ‘White’ race, whatever that is, their disappearance would be a blessing. Fortunately you are just a vile, psychopathic, outlier.

    • Troll: Automatic Slim
  131. @raga10

    So what’s the ‘raga’ about then? You remain a Sinophobic idiot whatever your breeding.

    • Replies: @raga10
  132. @Badger Down

    Every country on Earth that has good relations with China is in the firing line of the Evil psychopaths in Thanatopolis DC, and their stooges, and outright colonies like Austfailia.

  133. Anon[213] • Disclaimer says:
    @d dan

    If the people have no saying of what they feel, who they hate, they are ‘shaped’, well, it doesn’t worth to tell the difference. They are what they are feed with. We are what we are made of.
    To me, Unz’s argument doesn’t stand. Just excuses to blame others.
    It’s just some natural debate between people blame myself and people blame others.

    • Replies: @mike99588
  134. mike99588 says:
    @showmethereal

    Simple, Taiwan was Japan’s best colony relationship before 1945 (more investment, less insurgency). Now Taiwan can meet Japan with more equality technologically and economically, they might be able to federate with less problems than Taiwan and PRC.

    Xi may yet go down in history as a great unifier.
    Of the IndoPacific Rim.

  135. mike99588 says:
    @Anon

    Dan is confused. Asians and whites do fine, fuck and have familes.
    Americans that aren’t traitors are (becoming) anti-CCP.
    If dan is uncomfortable, it’s not his race that’s the problem.

    Americans have awakened to some of the threats that the CCP represent.
    CCP is not merely inside the gates but owns or co-opted a lot of our mafia class politicians and corp heads including the illegitimate Occupant.

    • Replies: @Deep Thought
  136. mike99588 says:
    @mulga mumblebrain

    The CCP version of harmony is the graveyard, or perhaps more accurately, an unmarked trench.

  137. d dan says:
    @Yee

    “We don’t accept our own race. The natives disliked all those outsiders from other provinces.”

    You are confused by dislike of outsiders (same or different races) vs dislike of different races who are (supposedly) insiders. For example, Chinese has been in California for over a hundred years, but are still dislike by White natives, i.e. White natives dislike Chinese natives.

  138. @mike99588

    Americans have awakened to some of the threats that the CCP represent.

    CCP is not merely inside the gates but owns or co-opted a lot of our mafia class politicians and corp heads including the illegitimate Occupant.

    There are greater “threats” to you than the CCP. Even many Whites are prepared to risk their lives to take down the statues of racial oppressors:

  139. d dan says:
    @raga10

    “In short: if you want to change our perception quit complaining about racism and lift your game.”

    LOL. You and mike9958 are just Anti-China Pavlov’s dogs. Both of you heard an accident and the word “China” in “South China Sea”, and before any info is available, reflectively point finger at Chinese “shit” products, container, poor quality, bad safety practices, blah, blah, blah. Asked about any alternative theory? Oh, still Chinese submarine, Chinese-this Chinese-that.

    Yes, this has nothing to do with racism. Racism is debate about real problems faced by real people in the real world. You and mike9958 are from the animal kingdom, so aren’t qualified to be in the debate.

    • Agree: showmethereal
    • Replies: @raga10
  140. @mike99588

    Taiwan was Japan’s best colony relationship before 1945 (more investment, less insurgency). Now Taiwan can meet Japan with more equality technologically and economically, they might be able to federate with less problems than Taiwan

    Eventually, they will be integrated. Just look at Mongolia and Manchuria.

  141. raga10 says:
    @d dan

    LOL. You and mike9958 are just Anti-China Pavlov’s dogs

    If we are dogs, does it make us appetizing to you? Would like to eat us? Is this in fact a complement? Oh never mind, crawl back to your Party headquarters now – I’m done with you.

  142. raga10 says:
    @mulga mumblebrain

    So what’s the ‘raga’ about then?

    Heh, you’ve got me there. Raga is indeed an Indian raga. Long time ago I wanted to sign up somewhere so I needed to come up with a handle. Looking around the room for inspiration my eyes fell on a CD player (remember those?), and it was playing a disc of Indian ragas, track number 10. It was completely random, but over the years I became attached to it.
    So, that’s my connection to India.

    • Replies: @Badger Down
  143. raga10 says:
    @raga10

    there was a time when *German* products were considered junk throughout Europe.

    For any sticklers for detail: when I said German I really meant Prussian, mostly. But by the time they embarked on their self-improvement program, it was the Second Reich.

  144. Weaver says:
    @bombthe3gorgesdam

    The three words you fear most: “Arab lives matter.”

    Your empire will fall, and whites will be freed. It is destined.

    • Replies: @bombthe3gorgesdam
  145. Weaver says:
    @d dan

    There was nothing wrong with calling the virus the “China virus.” It’s possible the virus was biowar against China as Unz claims, but I haven’t looked into that fully. Currently, the most likely theory is the US government funded its development in China, and the virus escaped accidentally. So, the “US-China friendship virus” is what I prefer calling it.

    China does steal tech. European societies also stole tech to advance. That’s pretty normal. It’s also normal to complain about it. China has a more closed system than the US; so, it would probably be more difficult to steal from China.

    China does “cheat” with regard to interest rates. The current trade and central bank situation is absurd. China brings common sense to the table, and it wins. Trump was basically arguing that America is run by fools. If he’d been more focused, Trump would have noted how most of our trading partners use border adjusted VAT against the US.

    Trump’s approach to trade protectionism made sense. He just couldn’t pull it together. He sort of half knew he had the right idea, but for whatever reason, he couldn’t pull things together.

    After years of your reading about how unfair his comments were, I dunno if you’ll follow what I’m saying. The reality is probably just very different from what you realise.

    Regarding the negative view of China, that is different. There is propaganda against China’s treatment of its Muslims. That is true. The % of Americans supporting warring over Taiwan is now over 50%. That is new. For what it’s worth, my only issue with China, regarding its Muslims, is I fear the archaeological record could be damaged. I want to know their history, because it might shed light on my past.

    I agree, the following is provocation:

    And last week, US, UK, Australia, Japan and others sent 3 carrier groups and strategic bombers during Chinese national holiday to perform all sort of provocations, and then somehow still manage to blame China for “aggression”.

    I’m fully against the US empire. The US is mismanaged. The US is currently under the delusion that it has the power to involve itself in Chinese waters. It does not.

    This is war drum, pre-war preparation and all-out, ugly psychological and propaganda warfare in full swing.

    It might be. Giving Australia nuclear submarines shocked me.

    The shift to China began under Obama. Trump was, semi-coherently, trying to pursue a trade protectionist platform, under which it makes sense to complain about China, as well as India. He considered pulling troops out of Korea and Japan and improving ties with North Korea. You can see elements of the things I want in what he did. He just couldn’t end up doing anything.

    Keep in mind, if Trump had pursued a truly America First policy, Japan and SK would lose their trade advantages, as would the EU. Those trade deals are how the US bribes others into following the US in foreign policy. If I’ve oversimplified this, I can talk more on it if someone demands I do.

    A weakness of Trump is he wanted to be the deal maker, wanted to renegotiate improved trade deals with all trading partners, but such things are really unnecessary in most cases. The US just needs blind trade protections against most trading partners, without any differentiation. So, the same trade policy towards North Korea as South Korea, also the same with China and Japan. In my view.

    Biden is senile. It’s possible some disaster happens under Biden. I perhaps should speak, or write, against war over Taiwan. However, unless China actually attacks Taiwan, I don’t think it could happen. Furthermore, if a “war” breaks out, it’ll likely only result in China pushing the US out, and the US raising trade protections against China. I can’t see the US fighting over Taiwan.

    The US treats other countries far worse than you probably realise. The US wants empire. The US also needs an enemy. Only China and Russia, and maybe one day India, are large enough to be that enemy. Maybe one day the US will align against Russia and East Europe, for example. They could be large enough. But empire needs an enemy to unite against. The US can only absorb Japan and South Korea, for example, if they have some enemy to oppose, an enemy to define themselves against.

    • Replies: @d dan
  146. Weaver says:
    @d dan

    Jews ruling over the US are significant, because they don’t see themselves as American. They also tend to be anti-white.

    Asians are attacked in the US by the same groups, and for the same reasons, whites are attacked by. If whites were somehow a danger to Asians, why do Asians always live in white neighborhoods? Why do we never see attacks by whites on Asians? You should follow @MrAndyNgo on twitter.

    • Agree: nokangaroos
  147. @raga10

    Are you trolling or you didn’t read my comment. I gave you examples – including of German companies who manufacture in China – and the quality is tops… Where in my comment did I complain about racism? I said a simple fact about the arrogance and ignorance of westerners. Yes there is racism too – but that wasn’t in my comment. So your reply makes no sense.
    You know who else manufactures in China and exports? Korean and Japanese companies. Again you make no sense.
    And for the last time – where is the proof that China’s ships drop a higher percentage of containers into the sea than others…????? You don’t have any proof is why. Just your ignorance and bias. Whether you are racist or not I have no clue and never accused you of such. That’s usually the sign of someone who knows they lost and just try to lash out.

    • Replies: @raga10
  148. @mike99588

    Is that sarcasm – or are you just crazy??? You obviously don’t know how serious of an issue that is. The US would not be able to help Japan in that case. The 8 Nation Alliance can’t do what it did then… China is not weak anymore. Japan would be over. Let’s be serious and stop the childishness. This is supposed to be a forum for adults I thought.

  149. @Weaver

    The three letters you fear most: FBI!
    There’s no empire, just a great country (the most powerful to ever have existed in history) and you are its enemy.

    • Replies: @Weaver
    , @Weaver
  150. d dan says:
    @Weaver

    “There was nothing wrong with calling the virus the “China virus.””

    This is nonsense. The only reason to call it “China virus” is to stigmatize China/Chinese. There is ZERO value in calling it. That is why WHO gives it a standard name, and why Biden bans government employees calling it “China virus” – I regard Biden a better President than Trump for this reason alone.

    “but I haven’t looked into that fully. Currently, the most likely theory is the US government funded its development in China, and the virus escaped accidentally.”

    This is even more nonsense. Since you admit not looking into that fully, I advise you read up more before spreading fake news.

    “China does steal tech… It’s also normal to complain about it.”

    LOL. If you agree every country steals and cheats, why complain against China only. It is opportunistic politicians’ crude rhetoric to get votes at the expense of Chinese. Smart and responsible citizens should be against the practices.

    “Trump’s approach to trade protectionism made sense. ”

    No, it doesn’t. Trump, like 90% of American, has no idea about the economic problems of the country. We already briefly discussed this before. It is NOT just because he treated all nations blandly.

    • Replies: @Weaver
    , @mulga mumblebrain
  151. raga10 says:
    @showmethereal

    Where in my comment did I complain about racism?

    You did say: it is mainly westerners that like to denigrate Chinese goods It seemed fair to me to interpret this as a complaint against racism.

    I gave you examples – including of German companies who manufacture in China

    And strangely enough, German manufacturing isn’t quite what it used to be. Mercedes and BMW are certainly coasting on their reputation these days…

    I’m happy for you if your trains are so great, but I’m more concerned about Chinese goods we get here. You gave examples – let me give you a counter example, based on my personal experience:

    A while ago I owned Honda CB250; not the later model that was manufactured in Thailand, but the original one from the late 90’s, built in Japan. This was not an advanced sports model – we’re talking about entry level, commuter type of a bike. But that thing was built like a tank! Tolerances were perfect, paint was solid, metal was beefy and strong. It was as close to unbreakable as an entry-level machine could ever get!

    A few years later, my friend bought a CFMoto – Chinese bike at around the same price point. It was absolute crap. Paint started to peel off almost immediately, gaps between parts were so big you could stick your finger in them and it nearly vibrated itself off to pieces before we tightened up most bolts, because clearly nobody took any care to do any pre-delivery quality control. And don’t even get me started on its wiring, it was like a bird’s nest! Steel used in its construction was more like cheese than metal… which is either ironic or completely appropriate, considering China is not known for its production of cheese either.

    And do I need to say this? Neither of them was a western product. But the difference in quality was like night and day.

    And for the last time – where is the proof that China’s ships drop a higher percentage of containers into the sea than other

    There is absolutely no proof, and I never claimed to have any. I stressed right from the beginning that this was nothing but pure guesswork on my part.

    • Replies: @Showmethereal
  152. Yee says:

    d dan,

    You are confused by dislike of outsiders (same or different races) vs dislike of different races who are (supposedly) insiders.

    If someone deliberately work to maintain the situation, then you could be native for millenniums, but still outsiders. Take a look at the Hindus using religion to achieve that result. Not much difference.

    I still think it’s the ruling class who work to maintain the situation.

    • Disagree: d dan
  153. Weaver says:
    @bombthe3gorgesdam

    Supremacists like you are unpopular with American citizens. Anyway, I hope China labels you as a terrorist and bans you from entry into China. You are an embarrassment.

    The US has something like 800 bases world wide. It trades at a disadvantage and pays to offer defense services in order to influence foreign polities. It’s an empire.

  154. Weaver says:
    @d dan

    It’s common to label viruses by their origin. It’s normal.

    I know quite a bit about economics. China has pursued protectionist trade to expand. India pursues it, Japan, SK, the EU. You seem to be young and to have only learned from the news. I’ve just studied more than you have. The US is expected to not protect its interests, as a sort of charity, also to enrich American overseas investors.

    If you look at Europe’s recent history, you will find “scandals” where tech is stolen. China correctly views the denial of tech as a means of hindering its advancement. Whether it is right or not is up to each country to decide. China will likely get ahead at some point and then strive to protect its own advantages in technology.

    There’s a tremendous difference between trade protectionists like myself wanting to help American workers and imperial bullies who want to meddle in Chinese affairs. I don’t think it’s any of my business what China does.

    • Replies: @d dan
  155. Weaver says:
    @Carney

    White people? I’m talking strategy. The US is run by inept anti-white fools who act detrimentally to American interests including those of whites.

    A pro-American policy would be to bring troops home, put America first.

    Whites are currently just expected to pay for the empire. It doesn’t serve American interests. Do you see white people as cows you can milk?

  156. Weaver says:
    @bombthe3gorgesdam

    Repeat after me, “Arabs have souls. Arab lives matter. Arabs are people too.”

    There is nothing you can do to defeat those words. Your days are over. And if you make Americans more anti-white, they’ll notice, you’re white too.

    When the US government becomes tight on money, budgets will be cut. Americans want free stuff, not empire. Being “powerful” isn’t appealing, especially when all you do is fail.

  157. Weaver says:
    @Carney

    A major reason I’m opposed to your foreign policy is you make the world hate white people. Globally, when people react, angry that the US has done something; they think, “White people did this!”

    Not only am I against the empire, but it doesn’t serve my interests. I get blamed, but I reap no benefit.

    A great way to improve the way the world sees white people, if that’s what you’re concerned with, is to cut US foreign policy entirely. But you won’t allow that.

    Close all foreign bases. Bring all troops home. End all foreign aid. End all involvement in foreign affairs. Protect trade. Get rich. America First.

    • Agree: Showmethereal
    • Replies: @d dan
  158. @raga10

    A westerner is not a race but a mindset and way of life. You have people who live in the west but are not western in thought or deed. The west is indeed run by whites – but there are whites even in Eastern Europe who do not think like westerners

    In the late 90’s many Chinese products were garbage – like the Japanese ones 20 years before them.. A lot changes in that time and you seem stuck in the past. I gave you a current example of comparing a US made Tesla to build quality of comparatively priced vehicle from China. Not in 2001 but in 2021.

    Making an assumption is what? People should only make assumptions based on reality. You should worry more about the sensors on US subs than containers falling off Chinese ships… Which is a silly idea in itself since China’s export model is partly based on being able to deliever on time and with value. If containers drop off the ship with more frequency from Chiness vessels than is the norm then that would defeat the purpose. Assumptions are not fruitful

  159. d dan says:
    @Weaver

    “It’s common to label viruses by their origin. It’s normal.”

    It used to be, but no longer “normal”. WHO, together with almost all countries in the world, has decided that this is a bad practice, and for good reasons. Citing something that has been normal does not make an argument for continued future implementation, e.g. colonialization, slavery, etc. Furthermore, there are current dispute about the “origin” of the virus.

    “You seem to be young and to have only learned from the news. ”

    You are wrong in both count. I further have the advantage of able to read outside the English language -i.e. the ability to listen from both sides of the trade disputes that you probably lack.

    “The US is expected to not protect its interests, as a sort of charity,…”

    If you are talking about rules in WTO where US (and other developed countries) are supposed to favor developing countries in trades and tech transfer, then you probably should not complain. Nothing US agree to do is meant to be purely “charity”, though they always claim it is. Early American leaders and WTO negotiators were not as stupid as you think.

  160. d dan says:
    @Weaver

    “A major reason I’m opposed to your foreign policy is you make the world hate white people. ”

    The guy has no problem to go halfway around the Earth to rally for Taiwan, and talks shit about the “thuggery” of PRC. Then he complains Chinese hate White people like him. Is he stupid, hypocritical, both, or worst?

  161. raga10 says:

    I gave you a current example of comparing a US made Tesla to build quality of comparatively priced vehicle from China. Not in 2001 but in 2021.

    Tesla is actually famous for their own quality problems (https://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/tesla-ranks-dead-last-latest-auto-quality-survey-n1232055 – article from 2020) so I’m not sure you picked the best example.

    I am not stuck in the past as such; but if I view the present through the lens of my past experience, can you blame me? I’m talking about events of some 15 years ago, not a century. The problem was not that Chinese manufacturer didn’t have the technology to build a decent commuter motorbike available to them; the problem was that they couldn’t be arsed, content to make a quick buck. It was a cultural issue not technological one so I doubt your culture changed that quickly.

    As it was, after my positive experience with that Honda I went on to own a number of Japanese bikes, all of them perfectly satisfactory. And my friend? … well, she did the same. She never looked at another Chinese offering again.
    Thus endeth the lesson.

  162. America should not be involved in any of this.

  163. Anonymous[240] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    the gall to bring up that Himalayan debacle where the Chinese got whipped

    Is that the “debacle” where the Chinese ended up in possession of a 10-kilometer deep by 40-kilometer wide (6-mile deep by 24-mile wide) strip of formerly Indian-occupied land as a result of the “fighting”?

    I am a layman and all, but when your side (China) advances across 144 square miles of land, it sure don’t sound like the Chinese lost. In fact, seems like they pretty much cleaned Indian behind there.

    Not that the Chinese are making any kind of big deal about this, but the Indians are making a lot of noise, crowing about their uh . . . “victory”.

  164. @Yee

    The Chinese have PLENTY of capital of their own. Forty-seven trillion in savings for a start.

  165. @raga10

    Dumb and nassty Sinophobe racist. It has to be jealousy mixed with fear.

  166. @d dan

    It’s the Fort Detrick virus, just as the ‘Spanish Flu’ was really the Kansas Flu. And everyone steals technology, and, as the Snowden revelations showed, the biggest thief by far is the USA, and it has been for decades, if not centuries.

  167. @bombthe3gorgesdam

    Yes, they have the power to do that, but it would be a little obvious, wouldn’t it? What about genocide with plausible deniability? Has anyone thought of a way to wipe out most of the current world population while plausibly denying that they were responsible for doing that?

    Covid?

  168. @raga10

    I specifically picked Tesla because Tesla is the darling company of US industry. You know the one that is the most advanced in the world supposedly and makes ships that crash into things that you blame on China. Furthermore – Tesla is more confident now in exporting its Chinese made cars than its US made ones. Go figure

    Next time reply directly… And good for you and your friend. Chinese companies dont seem to care since their sales continue to increase. I guess most of the world is dumb except you. Again quality of Japanese machines were lower in 1975 than 1990. Your critical thinking skills are lacking – like the people who think its a good idea to interfere in the Chinese civil war.

    And the issue was about containers – so you weaseled yourself away.. Good for you.

    • Replies: @raga10
  169. raga10 says:

    I specifically picked Tesla because Tesla is the darling company of US industry.

    Tesla has a lot of fanbois on the net and I guess they did kick-start the EV industry and all that, but they also cut corners in their actual manufacturing big time. Did you see who else placed on the bottom of that survey? Jaguar, Mercedes-Benz, Volvo, Audi, Land Rover. All esteemed European brands at one time; Jaguar and Land Rover now owned by Indians (Tata), Volvo by Chinese (Geely). German car makers are largely coasting on their reputation, while they’re doing most of their actual manufacturing overseas. The most reputable of their car makers at the moment is probably Porsche who I’m sure also sources some of their components overseas, but still makes their cars in Germany. I’m sure that’s just a coincidence, though.
    (they are planning to open a plant in Malaysia though, I hope that will be just for your market. Going by your posts naturally you won’t mind paying extra for that German badge on Malaysian car)

  170. raga10 says:
    @Showmethereal

    And the issue was about containers – so you weaseled yourself away.

    I have no additional information to add so I don’t see any point in continuing to talk about it. It was a random remark I made, while always admitting that was all it was, so I’m not interested in dying on that hill. We have no idea whether that sub hit a container in the first place so what’s the point of continuing to argue how likely it was that container was Chinese? I don’t know, and I don’t care to look for statistics. Case closed, unless more info comes to light.

  171. @raga10

    Raga Dass!
    No connection to Yon Chan.

  172. @raga10

    My neighbor paid 1600 for a Chinese scooter 2 years ago. It broke down a few months later and no one in the area had any clue as to how to fix it.

    Just this spring i know a guy that bought a scooter from china.
    He ordered it in like early March. 4-6 weeks shipping. Got here in late June. The forks on the front tire had somehow gotten bent.
    Long story short. He’s got a shooter scooter with bent forks.
    Oh i almost forgot. He bought an extra battery for it. Almost 200. Apparently you need some type of key to unlock/lock it onto the scooter. No key.
    He paid nearly 1800.

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