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The Democrats “Russia Hacking” Campaign Is Political Suicide
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The Democratic Party is doing incalculable damage to itself by shapeshifting into the party of baseless conspiracy theories, groundless accusations, and sour grapes. Hillary Clinton was already the most distrusted presidential candidate in party history. Now she’s become the de facto flag-bearer for the nutso-clique of aspiring propagandists at the CIA, the New York Times and Bezo’s Military Digest. How is that going to improve the party’s prospects for the long term?

It won’t, because the vast majority of Americans do not want to align themselves with a party of buck-passing juveniles that have no vision for the future but want to devote all their energy to kooky witch-hunts that further prove they are unfit for high office.

The reason Hillary Clinton lost the election is because she is a polarizing, untrustworthy warmonger. Period. Putin had nothing to do with it.

And the same rule applies to the major media that has attached itself leech-like to this pathetic fairytale. Here’s a clip from the Times headline story connecting FSB-agent Trump with the evil Kremlin:

“American intelligence agencies have told the White House they have “high confidence” that the Russian government was behind the theft of emails and documents from the Democratic National Committee. …

The attack on the congressional committee’s system appears to have come from an entity known as “Fancy Bear,” which is connected to the G.R.U., the Russian military intelligence service, according to an official involved in the forensic investigation…

Clinton campaign officials have suggested that President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia could be trying to tilt the election to Mr. Trump, who has expressed admiration for the Russian leader.” (Computer Systems Used by Clinton Campaign Are Said to Be Hacked, Apparently by Russians, New York Times)

If there was a Pulitzer Prize for fearmongering innuendo or spurious accusations, the Times would win it hands-down. As it happens, readers have to delve much deeper into the article to find this shocking disclaimer:

“But the campaign officials acknowledge that they have no evidence. The Trump campaign has dismissed the accusations about Russia as a deliberate distraction…..”

“No evidence”???

They got nothing. NOTHING!

All they have is a few anonymous agents who refuse to identify themselves speculating on alleged hacking incidents that (they surmise) were the work of Vladimir P. Strangelove in his remote Soviet Cyber-war bunker. That’s not even enough material for a decent spy thriller.

But, of course, all this bunkum about “Fancy Bear” and “Russian military intelligence” and the “high confidence” of (unnamed) US intelligence agents is enough to scare the hell out of many readers and leave them with the impression that the Kremlin is up to its old Cold War tricks again. The Times editors are wise enough to know that it’s quite easy to tap into 40-years of anti-Soviet brainwashing and convince the gullible sheeple that Washington and Moscow are still mortal enemies. It would have been helpful if the Times had given the story a bit of context, that is, pointed out that the US has relentlessly expanded NATO eastward establishing military bases in all of the former Soviet satellite states, toppled the Moscow-friendly regime in Ukraine, and built nuclear weapons sites in east Europe just a few hundred miles from Moscow.

The Times writers might have also noted that this latest propaganda campaign against Russia could very well be the result of Moscow’s triumph over US-backed militants in Syria that are facing a decisive defeat due in large part to Russian involvement. In other words, the Times and the other US propaganda organs are functioning as they always do, whipping up public sentiment against the “evildoers” so Washington can drag the country into another imperial war of expansion. The whole “hacking” mantra fits perfectly with the Pentagon’s hybrid war strategy which manipulates information in order to shape public perceptions and gain support for another round of genocidal violence in some far-flung location. (Raqqa, perhaps?)

Do you think that bloodthirsty Hillary would be on-board with such a plan?

Of course she would. Hillary never met a war she didn’t like.

But let’s cut to the chase: Putin didn’t lose the election for Hillary. Obama did. People wanted change, and they didn’t get it, so they moved on to Door Number 2: Donald Trump. Take a look at these three short clips from a recent survey from PEW Research and you’ll get a feel for what really happened in the election:

“The Republican Party made deep inroads into America’s middle-class communities in 2016. Although many middle-class areas voted for Barack Obama in 2008, they overwhelmingly favored Donald Trump in 2016, a shift that was a key to his victory…..In 2016, Trump successfully defended all 27 middle-class areas won by Republicans in 2008. In a dramatic shift, however, Hillary Clinton lost in 18 of the 30 middle-class areas won by Democrats in 2008…

Overall, Democrats experienced widespread erosion in support from 2008 to 2016. Their share of the vote fell in 196 of the 221 metropolitan areas examined. The loss in support was sufficiently large to move 37 areas from the Democratic column to the Republican column…

Not coincidentally, Democrats also were more likely to have lost ground in manufacturing-dependent areas. Of the 56 communities with a relatively large share of manufacturing jobs, Trump picked up victories in 15 metro areas that had supported Obama in 2008 and held onto another 29, leaving only 12 communities in the Democrats’ column.” (GOP gained ground in middle-class communities in 2016, Pew Research)

Get it? The Dems lost ground everywhere because Obama didn’t deliver the goods. That’s reason number one. Second, Hillary didn’t address the issues that ordinary working people really care about. And what they care about is the economy. Money, security, jobs. Is that hard to understand?

People are afraid because things are getting worse not better. Their standards of living are slipping, they’re worried about their retirement, their jobs, their health care, and the pile of debt their kids have accumulated to go to college. They’ve lost confidence in the media, the congress, the courts and the president who promised change but never lifted a finger for working people his entire time in office.

That’s why Hillary lost, just look at the research.

The Democrats have no vision for the future, and without vision, the party will disintegrate which is precisely what’s happening. The Democratic Party is disintegrating before our very eyes. This latest “Russian hacking” diversion is just speeding along the process.

MIKE WHITNEY lives in Washington state. He is a contributor to Hopeless: Barack Obama and the Politics of Illusion (AK Press). Hopeless is also available in a Kindle edition. He can be reached at [email protected].

(Republished from Counterpunch by permission of author or representative)
• Category: Ideology • Tags: 2016 Election, Donald Trump, Russia 
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  1. Marcus says:

    The thing is, the left was urging understanding and accusing Goldwater, Reagan, etc. of wanting to start a nuclear exchange with the USSR. There were very few movies or other media with straightforward demonization of the USSR, especially compared to what’s pumped out about the Third Reich seventy years after the fact. Now that Russia isn’t communist anymore, it’s not only acceptable, but fashionable to hate them!

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  2. nsa says:

    The election of Der Trumpster is a gift from the heavens…..the vile leftie filth has gone totally apoplectic with rage. It just warms the heart to witness the hysteria, the denial, the anger, the howling, the impotence, the disbelief. Just imagine the reaction when he actually takes power……

  3. ogunsiron says:

    Now that Russia isn’t communist anymore, it’s not only acceptable, but fashionable to hate them!

    Russia belongs to the Russians and not the ((( russians ))) nowadays. That,s why she gets so much hate.

    • Replies: @Boris N
  4. Mike, you nailed it. We voted for Obama’s “Hope and Change ™” but didn’t even get chump change. So now we voted for Trump change.

    The Dems and fellow travelers like McCain? Apparently, a conspiracy of dunces.

    • Replies: @TheJester
    , @RadicalCenter
  5. Great piece, great writing, Mike. I especially appreciate the absence of race-mongering, of all that ‘white working class’, ‘black or hispanic voters’ crap.

    There’s still hope for American journalism… Thanks.

    As for hacking, considering the volume of data, it’s much easier for me to believe in someone copying emails to a flash-drive right inside the server room (a-la Manning and Snowden), than in hacking and downloading gigabytes of data remotely, without anyone noticing. So, since we’re in the realm of conspiracy theories anyway, I’d rather believe it was Seth Rich, than Vladimir Putin…

  6. Cyrano says:

    If you want to explain to the Americans what patriotism is – you have to do that in the simplest possible form, and that form is Russia hater = patriot. That’s about as complex explanation as an average American can handle.

    They’ve been conditioned to accept this equation as absolute truth throughout the Cold War. That’s why Hillary used that nonsense so much in her campaign, trying to appeal to American patriotism by showing how much anti-Russian she is. It almost worked, but that’s a tired cold war cliché which only confirmed how much out of ideas she was.

    They are still trying to portray Trump as non-patriot because of his supposed Russian ties, because remember: anti-Russian = good American and good patriot. Trump should be careful with these nutcases when considering his appointees for Secretary of State for example.

    The supposedly Russia friendly Rex Tillerson only plays into the narrative that Trump is pro-Russian and thus automatically non-patriot and not a good American. In any normal country having people who can communicate with one of the most strategically important countries of the world would be considered a bonus, but US doesn’t fit that description. One only has to look at the record of Hillary as secretary of state and the wonderful results her tough anti-Russian patriotism have produced.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  7. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    The Lie that Came in from the Fold.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  8. On the matter of Fake News, the investigation of Russia’s (fake) involvement in the election is being used to divert attention from the real story and where the real investigation should be taking place, PIZZAGATE. It is Pizzagate that holds the key to the “plughole” that can/will drain the swamp, but only if it is pursued relentlessly to its full conclusion.

    Do not let this opportunity pass! Call your Congressional Rep, Senator, write to your newspapers, use social media, even post handbills around schools, bus and train stations and wherever else you can contact the masses and drive public awareness towards a tipping point. A better opportunity to root out the traitorous scum that have infected America might not come your way again in a very long time, if ever.

    This is bigger, FAR BIGGER, than most people realise. Help to make America Great again. Thank you.

  9. @NoseytheDuke

    I hope Ron Unz realizes that when he published Pizzagate hysteria, he provided fodder for the same nuts who think no planes hit the towers.

    • Troll: CK
  10. People went hoarse shouting at the Democrats: “Don’t do it! There will be hell to pay!”

    Well, Hell is here. Time to pay up.

  11. @landlubber

    I don’t consider Pizzagate to be hysteria at all, why do you? As to the towers, I support a new, independent and open investigation because the official story is clearly fraudulent. Do you?

    I’m not concerned at all about what Ron Unz himself realises, he seems to have done fine with whatever it is he does realise. This very website and his writings seem to validate that. Cheers

    • Agree: Amasius, Miro23
    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  12. MarkinLA says:

    Maybe Hillary can thank all that immigration for diluting all the people brainwashed by the Cold War era for her defeat.

  13. Since the American people are better off having the information that was hacked, if the Russians did it, weren’t they objectively performing a public service? Who can call an election illegitimate when the infraction consisted of the propogation of truth?

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  14. TheJester says:
    @Fran Macadam

    Precisely! As one of many, I voted for Obama twice because I wanted change. I donated $100 to Obama’s campaign — the first time I had ever donated to a presidential campaign. I didn’t get change, so this time I voted for the Donald, donating $300 to his campaign.

    But the election was testy in my urban neighborhood (feminism rules: lots of divorces and single mothers). I feared that if I put up a “Trump” sign, most of my neighbors would never talk to me again. My brother and sister did know where I stood in this election. They aren’t talking to me. My sister threatened to leave the country if Trump was elected. I’m resisting asking her when she’s leaving; she is in enough pain without rubbing it in.

    Change? Trump is not disappointing me with his cabinet appointments and tweets.

    • Replies: @fitzGetty
    , @RadicalCenter
  15. Erebus says:

    …Pizzagate … holds the key to the “plughole” that can/will drain the swamp

    Yup. The “Russian intervention” meme is a diversion, and together with the “fake news” meme is the foundation of their future defence. Congress has obligingly started building on that foundation by drafting and passing the laws needed to institutionalize it.

    “Draining The Swamp” sounds great on the hustings, but in practice means exposing all of America’s elites, guilty or not, to a world of shame. Not at all sure the Donald and his elitist team will see that as making America great again.

  16. edNels says:

    I believe you have it right there on the first sentence:

    The Democratic Party is doing incalculable damage to itself by shapeshifting…]

    Shapeshifting from the party that was known for support for the working stiff to a megaphone mouthing support for ”big tent” all inclusiveness, and just a pile on so ”inclusive”, as to enable a dodgy republican and her sleazy blue dog hubby, to steal and abscond with that mantle, and work their neoliberal evil for decades.

    That has some consequences… when things are allowed in plain view, to go wrong, and no surprise, the folks get it!

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  17. fitzGetty says:

    … and, the most annoying event was the arrival in DC last month on board that very personal jet … hilarious .

  18. fitzGetty says:

    Too bad; over promoted, beta, second rate – the national embarrassment removed the USA from the world stage as a laughing stock …

  19. Why Trump won, from my blog, presented by a Trump hater:

    Nov 5, 2016 – Why Trump is Popular

    Michael Moore was an interesting populist 20 years ago, until he discovered that he could become rich and famous as a spokesman for the corrupt Democratic party. So he lambasts Republicans only. He recently created a furor by going off script during an anti-Trump speech. While explaining why Trump is popular, he ends up delivering a great pro-Trump speech. He later explained that he was misunderstood, but watch this video segment and decide.

  20. Realist says:

    “The Democrats “Russia Hacking” Campaign Is Political Suicide”

    Are you saying that the idiot left will not vote Democrat? No matter what the Democrats will vote for any scumbag lefty that runs. The last election proves that. Hillary won the popular vote in spite of her corrupt, lying bullshit.

    • Replies: @Wally
  21. edNels says:

    Things don’t happen for nothing. Don’t think that any of this crazy self destruction of the Democratic Party, has been from little stupid things, but not at all, it is by design.

    And to take a bit from the post across the screen there at Linh Dinh which exposes break down in American society, so well indeed!

    All this is right on schedule, to kill the American way of life, emblematic social egalitarianism, high mean standards of life, based on strong rule of law, including home ownership in Fee Simple. That last point which was put under a test, by the finance sters with that seemingly business expedient, of robo signed falsely collateralized lair loans and profligate usurious loan sharking, to the extent of even undermining the very lawful means of county title recorders around the country.

    Heads should roll. Where however, the crimes are not addressed, but hushed up, you are under a cue false government.

    The Globalist cabal of true communists, are encircling the sheep, look out Quido!

  22. JimB says:

    It was going to be a close election no matter who the candidates were. Over the past eight years Obama turned over all his governing responsibilities to just kind of bozos you would expect a community organizer to know, and the results were a disaster for everyone except the professional rent seekers and the billionaires who could afford to hire them. The voters were restless and wanted change. That being said, Hillary probably had more structural advantages than any other presidential candidate in history: Hollywood, the press, billionaires, nearly all the foreign heads of state, most of the unions, bloc voting minorities, the DOJ, etc. And yet she blew it. Her distaste for blue collar white males in the Midwest and her refusal to reach out to them cost her the election in the end. Her “basket of deplorables” comment sealed her fate. It wasn’t a widespread distrust or hatred of Hillary that sunk her. After all she won a numerical majority. It was her bigotry and inability to think strategically which tipped the race toward the Donald. She just couldn’t wrap her mind around the fact that she needed to be everyone’s president. Hillary was filtered out by a complex process set up by the Founding Fathers.

    The system worked.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  23. vonCol says:

    Can it be, Trump is skipping ‘intelligence briefings’ because he recognizes it as inflated bullshit and full of doctored evidence?

    It also makes people wonder whether ‘intelligence briefings’ to high officials is a sort of indoctrination and propaganda, similar to MSM gush of lies, but concocted specifically for those in high places.

    • Replies: @Karl
  24. President Trump wants to be friends with Christian Russia. Noam Chomsky announces everyday of the week that Donald Trump is Adolf Hitler. And these days, Noam has nice things to say about the old farting adult diaper wearing hairy Lesbian from Hell.

    Noam Chomsky, rot in fucking Hell-with Hillary Clinton and Christopher Hitchens.

  25. Kiza says:

    Hillary was filtered out by a complex process set up by the Founding Fathers.

    Yours is the brilliant summary of a great article by the legendary lefty Mike Whitney.

    Unfortunately for the US journalism, as someone else commented here, Mike is not a journalist by any stretch of imagination. He is simply a leading US thinker, a rare blast from the past when America used to be truly great, the greatness mainly exhibited by its now non-existent intellectual class. I do not know whether to laugh or cry at the pure election hysteria of the current US “intellectuals”. Is it that this class has been over-polluted by the hyper-emotional Jewish “intellectuals”?

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
    , @Avery
  26. Had the Democrats run with Bernie Sanders rather than the immensely unlikeable Hillary Clinton they could have won the presidency.

    But everyone here knows that already.

    On a side note; recent pictures of Hillary suggest she’s been hitting the bottle hard since election night.

  27. ehh, there is no danger of either party imploding. remember the dire news about the reds back in 2008?

    the ugly beauty of a 2 party system, the parties feeds on each other. no matter how bad it gets, neither will never die off. you need more than 2 major parties for that to happen.

    hell, the 2 parties are a divide and conquer scheme for the masses.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  28. Without the influence of Southern conservatives, who started leaving the party in the seventies, the Democrat party fell into the hands of the looney left. The flight of Southern Democrats to the Republican party accelerated in the 80s as the Reagan Revolution unrolled. In the 90s Leftist ideologues purged the Democrat party of remaining conservatives. By 2008 the party of Obama was vastly different from the party of Jimmy Carter. The virulent brand of identity politics practiced by the Left is anathema to the white working class. It’s hard to see where Democrats go from here. They have trapped themselves in Fanaticism Canyon with no way out.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  29. Skeptikal says:

    U R right.

    Genuine investigations are needed of
    Pizzagate (check out actual emails and evidence before toeing the official “fake/false/conspiracy/blah blah” line on this)
    DNC conspiracy to deny Sanders the candidacy

  30. Skeptikal says:

    “Shapeshifting from the party that was known for support for the working stiff ”

    I think that really started to change big-time under the Clintons’ first administration.
    I can’t imagine why any Democrat would have wanted these two back in the White House.
    Quite apart from Hillary’s own brand of awfulness (came, saw, killed, laughed).
    The Democratic Party has become the problem. I live in a blue state and have changed my registration to unenrolled.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  31. Skeptikal says:

    This essay is one of Whitney’s good ones. Generally they are good.
    However, it might bear recalling that Whitney came out in support of Hillary.
    In other words, he appeared, late in teh campaign, to have drunk the Dem. Kool-Aid regarding Hillary’s greater suitability to be the president of the USA and Trump as a ridiculous monster from the black lagoon of . . . white, racist America.

    He was gently excoriated for this over at ICH, that is, virtually every commenter siad something like: “Generally I agree with Whitney, but he is off-base here.”
    Whereupon he came out swinging, and petulant, and angry at his readership who were giving him honest feedback.
    So, I am glad to see Whitney back on board with a more nuanced, and intellectually honest and useful, view of the election results.

    • Replies: @Kiza
  32. Wally says:

    Who says that planes didn’t hit the towers?

    • Replies: @landlubber
  33. Wally says:

    “Hillary won the popular vote” my ass.

    There are 3,141 counties in the United States. Trump won 3,084 of them. Clinton won 57.

    Evidence of Detroit Voter Fraud, Too Many Votes in 37% of Precincts

    Michigan Recount Exposes Clinton Electoral Fraud: Half of Detroit Votes Show Signs of Tampering
    Votes in Hillary-heavy Detroit may have been counted up to 6 times

    Three Million Votes in Presidential Election Cast by Illegal Aliens

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Realist
  34. Blosky says:

    Remember when accusing the Russians of spying and acting in their own interest was a horrid thing to do? Me neither…

  35. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    Kennan is remembered as a sober statesman of the realist school. He called for ‘containment’ than outright confrontation.

    Given the current hysteria of today’s media and politicians about Russia, some like Pat Buchanan are calling for something more like a cautious containment strategy against Russia.

    But actually, even George-Kennan-ism would be unnecessary today.

    Kennan urged caution when Russia, as core of USSR, was really an ideological threat and military enemy of the US.

    But today, Russia WANTS TO BE FRIENDS. Russia wants to do business. Russia wants to be friendly with China and Europe and the US. During the Cold War, things got scary between Russia and China and between Russia and Europe & US. It seemed like things would never improve between Russia and China AND between Russia and the US. Things got so bad that even the US and China came together against Russia.

    Cold War is so totally over. Russian communism lost. Russia rebuilt without ideological animus against the West. Russia is non-interventionist. It doesn’t push its values or ideology on other nations. It also gets along with China and wants to bury the hatchet for good with Japan. Some threat!

    If anything, the US has been the aggressive power trying to force homomania all over the globe. Since the end of the Cold War, it is the US that’s been invading and destroying nations. US cooked up lies to mess up Iraq, Libya, and Syria. US even instigated the coup in Ukraine and created an unnecessary crisis.

    US also ‘pivots’ against China. US doesn’t think China should be a great power in the Eastern Pacific. This is imperialist legacy. Imagine Chinese dominating Western Pacific and increasing tensions along California coast.

    Even 9/11 was blowback resulting from overly aggressive US policy in the Middle East and North Africa.


    Why is the US so aggressive? US has come under the domination of globalists who seek to spread homomania and Diversity all over the world so that nations won’t be homogeneous and united against globo power. Globalists raped and plundered Russia in the 90s, and for awhile, they thought they owned Russia. But Putin gained power and restored some degree of Russian sovereignty and nationalism. The Glob hates this. Not because Putin is anti-American. Despite American bad behavior, Putin has been wanting to make nice with the US. He’s also been friendly with Israel, the ‘best friend of the US’ as we are told over and over. He’s been willing to make nice with EU and do business. But the fact that he rolled back globo-domination in Russia makes globalists angry with Russia. GLOB fears that Russian autonomy may serve as a model for other nations. So, the GLOB has cooked up this New Cold War scenario. It’s not about human rights or ideology. It’s about identity and ethnicity. This ‘new cold war’ is not what Putin and Russia want. And it’s not what Americans want. It is what the GLOB wants. It is in GLOB interest that EU and US hate Russia cuz the Russian example of national sovereignty and world peace is threatening to the GLOB project where the ONLY predominant rule must be the end of national sovereignty, the weakening of identity and loyalty(except in Israel), and total dependence on global finance.

    Also, the GLOB sees Russian resistance to homomania as a threat to globalist supremacism. The Glob has used homomania as proxy of their globo-imperialism. Since homos exist in every nation, the GLOB funds and uses homo minorities as collaborators to spread globalist supremacism. So, Russia saying NO to homo-power is seen by the GLOB, correctly, as saying NO to globalist rule.
    It is the globalists who are pushing and being aggressive with their agenda, but they cry foul whenever a nation like Russia says NO. Globalists act like Bill Laimbeer. It commits the foul, but if the other guy pushes back, it acts outraged. This passive-aggressive dirty trick of the GLOB has been used over and over. So, we are told Russia invaded South Ossetia. And we are told Russia ‘invaded’ Crimea when Russia merely reacted to US-backed coup in Ukraine. And even though Syria is mainly a mess because of the ‘West’ and its proxies, we are told Assad is the aggressor. Even though Aleppo has been liberated from foreign terrorists, we are told it has ‘fallen’.
    But then, we see the same thing in the US. Even though Trump voters got attacked and beaten by Proglodytes and blacks, the Narrative is that all these POCs and Progs have been attacked by Trump-supporting rednecks. But then, the entire US is sick in propping up the BS that Israel is endangered by Palestinians when it’s the other way around.

    What the US needs now is not containment policy against Russia. What is most necessary is self-containment policy because it is the US that is the main aggressive and imperialist force in the world. We need a stronger leader who will self-contain globalist aggression so that the US won’t harm and destroy the world anymore. The virus is no longer an external threat, like communism once was. The virus is internally generated from within the US, and it seeks to wreak havoc all over the world to satiate the globalist powerlust. Globalist powerlust is like Anthony Wiener’s pud. It tries to penetrate everything. It’s Portnoy’s Empire.

    US sometimes drop bombs and wreck other nations, as with Iraq and Libya. Or it uses the soft power of homomania, rap thug culture, or neo-feminist slut pride culture. Or, it uses terrorist proxies to wreck another nation, as with Syria. It’s incredible that US invaded Afghanistan and Iraq in the name of War on Terror but has come around to working with Alqaeda to topple the secular modern Arab leader Assad. It has turned into War with Terror.

    US agenda is dominated by globo-supremacist interests. And unless we name the Glob, we won’t get anywhere.

  36. Love the column, but there’s no basis for being confident that a “vast majority” of Americans (or US citizens and voters, anyway) will hold the hysterical Russia-bashing, warmongering, and conspiracy-theorizing against the democrats at all.

    That party has a solid, largely unreachable base — increasingly non-white and foreign in birth or culture or both — that wants to harm and discriminate against white Americans and/or get as much as “free” stuff as they can at taxpayer expense.

    Add in the part of the dem base, probably mostly younger and white, that truly seems to hate and want to mock and harm Christians. We live among them and have been verbally and physically abused by them here in Los Angeles. Admittedly, LA and CA are farther down the path to such bigotry and chaos than other places in the USA, but the bigotry is being encouraged and is spreading among millenials and the Dem party everywhere in the country.

    Those base (pun intended) motivations are powerful and won’t be swayed one iota by the democrats spouting silly, baseless, or exaggerated nonsense about Russian hacking to explain away their election losses.

    Your comment might apply to a bare majority of US citizens, and thus you’re right that the Dems may be helping us by acting like this now, just not as much as one might hope.

  37. @Fran Macadam

    If you voted for Obama and then came around to vote Trump, I give you a lot of credit for the change. It’s hard to admit being mistaken or getting duped. Obama fooled a lot of people who should have known better.

    Then again, so did the bushes. I regret my 2004 vote for George w bush. Should have voted third-party as I have done in most other presidential elections. (Before the lesser-of-two-evils arguments start, I was living in foregone-conclusion Dem places like Washington DC and California for most of those elections. So, I didn’t “help the democrat win” by refusing to vote for the schmucks the GOP put up.)

  38. @Stephen R. Diamond

    Great point that we don’t hear often, Mr. Diamond. I don’t hear the Dems alleging that Russia spread any false or misleading information at all.

    Apparently it’s now “dangerous” or “anti-American” to reveal true and accurate information about the favored elite, whether Russians do it or Americans.

  39. @TheJester

    [Posting too many separate comments really isn’t good behavior and clogs up the thread for everyone else. Perhaps we’ll have to start trashing some of them.]

    Understand your apprehensions, but please put up TRUMP signs next time (and have a dozen extra on hand for when thugs inevitably trespass on your property and rip them out).

    The more people who speak out honestly, even if they’re afraid or apprehensive, the more it encourages others to come out of the woodwork and join us.

    I refused to stop wearing my trump shirts, as did my wife, even though we live right smack in intolerant and rather dangerous Los Angeles. Wore the shirts when we visited New York City and New Jersey and got abused in each of those places. I was scared on two occasions, but we will not back down and we will never be silenced.


    P.S. That’s sad and offensive that your siblings are treating you like that. The love of family is, or ought to be, more important than these things.

    I’m lucky that my siblings are, respectively, a sensible libertarian and a conservative. The libertarian voted Gary Johnson (as I did in 2012) and the other voted Trump.

    But honestly – given the personality of these two, I think they too might be pretty unpleasant and rude if we weren’t generally in the same ballpark politically and in this election.


    I’m not loving the fact that trump is bringing in Goldman Sachs people. Disappointed, too, that he hasn’t given kris Kobach a big position, especially something to do with immigration policy, employers screwing U.S. citizens by hiring illegal aliens, and border security.

    But tentatively encouraged by sessions as AG (because of immigration, not his drug-warrior view on marijuana) and Rex as Secretary of State.

    Thank God Trump at least has had the sense not to nominate Chris Christie, John Bolton, or Rudy Giuliani for anything so far.

  40. Rurik says:

    Cold War is so totally over. Russian communism lost.

    it was never Russian communism to begin with. The Russians suffered under that genocidal insanity as much as anyone. Millions of them perished in the gulags or were summarily machine-gunned down like animals or starved to death like the Kulaks.

    The irony is that the Russians today honor those Bolshevik fiends who put them through so much hell because they think by doing so they’re beating their chests for having killed (and raped) so many Germans, who also suffered terribly.

    All of humanity should repudiate all of the people responsible for that terrible act of human madness that was WWII. It was the Russians and Germans who suffered the most, and out of the smoking ashes of 60+ million slaughtered Europeans and Russians… rose Israel. For whom they’re plotting the next monumental wave of butchered Europeans and Russians and others.

    Another way of looking at it is by seeing the “Russian” oligarchs for what they were/are. The Berezovskys and the Khodorkovosys. The “Russian” oligarchs who looted Russia at the end of the Soviet period were just as “Russian” as the Bolsheviks who imposed that mass insanity on Russia in the first place.

    and 9/11 was not blowback. It was a Zionist/neocon/CIA/Mossad false flag intended to get the US to fight Israel’s wars.

    nothing new under the sun it seems

    • Replies: @Lord of Wombats
  41. @JimB

    She very likely did NOT win a majority of legal votes, I.e. Votes by U.S. CITIZENS. We should stop conceding that point.

    Please see comment number 33 by Wally and the links there, especially the immigration officer.

    For what it’s worth, my wife (herself a LEGAL and English-speaking immigrant) personally knows two other immigrants from her country who told her they had voted, even tho they’re not citizens, because they hate Trump and fear his immigration ideas. One in Nevada and the other in California.

    If we had enacted and strictly enforced a federal requirement that people show proof of us citizenship before voting, the dems would have lost Nevada and Minnesota this time, and numerous close states last time as well. TRUMP should make this a major issue and talk about it nonstop — let the Dems explain to what patriotic, honest citizens are left why they want to leave a system in place where millions of noncitizens can vote illegally without us ever knowing.

    Last note: we will need fed employees enforcing the requirement, because local officials and poll “workers” in LA, San Francisco, New York City, Chicago, Miami, Newark NJ, Detroit, etc., will willfully disobey it and let anyone vote, hoping noncitizens vote because they will vote almost uniformly democrat.

  42. @Johnny Smoggins

    Not necessarily, though it might have been a less stupid choice than Clinton.

    Trump is sharp enough to tailor his emphasis to the opponent. If sanders had run, trump would have hammered much harder on outsourcing of jobs, the abandonment of American workers by multinational corporations and their labor unions as well, much more than he already did. He might have been wise enough to call for an increase in the minimum wage, too, accompanied by tax cuts to offset the increased burden for small / family businesses.

    Moreover, Clinton had trouble turning out Africans, apparently especially African men, who voted for Obama in previous two elections. Nothing suggests that sanders was appealing or inspiring or likeable to Africans, just see the Dem primary results.

  43. @Johnny Smoggins

    Better her than me. I’d be hitting the bottle if I had to spend the next four or eight years listening to her nails-on-a-chalkboard screeching, her strained yelling to show “enthusiasm”, and her bizarre and phony attempts at laughter (which her advisors told her was very important to connecting with humans).

    Let’s hope the Dems are foolish enough to run her again in 2020 if she’s still alive. But I doubt they will.

    I’m guessing the Dems will put an African or Mexican on the ticket to boost registration and turnout among these crucial (for them) block-voting groups. Watch Texas get truly close for the first time in decades if they do. And kiss many other close states goodbye unless the GOP pumps up turnout on our side big-time (which we can and must do anyway).

  44. @Astuteobservor II

    You’re right.

    I’d love to see a third party, and a fourth party, get publicity, raise real money, and then be able to advertise and travel and meaningfully compete in fed elections. Usually a Libertarian Party voter myself, but Gary Johnson and RINO Weld were a freeking disgrace this time around.

  45. @Epaminondas

    It’s not just anathema to the white “working class.”

    It’s offensive and disgusting to millions of college-educated and white-collar whites, too, like me, my mother, my sisters, and many of my friends.

    We know that the vicious anti-white hatred being stirred up by the Dems, by Hollywood, and by our colleges, will not spare us, our physical safety, our jobs, and our children, any more than it will spare white farmers, ranchers, miners, and auto mechanics when it gains sufficient power.

    Moreover, there simply aren’t enough “working class” / blue-collar whites to reliably carry a national election, though they are a crucial block that needs to register and turnout at higher rates — and NOT for Dems or establishment republicans, of course.

  46. @Skeptikal

    Good move, bro.

    And that reminds me to change my registration from republican back to independent. I switched to republican just to vote for trump in the primary and certainly don’t trust that party and its “leaders” as far as I can’t throw it.

  47. eah says:

    vile leftie filth

    That’s pretty strong — but I think not strong enough — what I’ve seen in the media, including social media, since Trump’s win is some of the craziest stuff ever — just unbelievable — personally I think there is no political solution to this divide — it is far too big — absolutely unbridgeable — America will break up eventually.

    • Replies: @eah
  48. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    Where do you get the idea that Clinton won only 57 counties?

    Also, is there some reason why you don’t have any objective sources? Breitbart skews very right wing. Lew Rockwell does too. Infowars skews crazy.

    • Replies: @Miro23
    , @RadicalCenter
  49. Skeptikal says:
    @Johnny Smoggins

    Post links to Clinton pix? I would like to see that!

  50. @Rurik

    “It was the Russians and Germans who suffered the most, and out of the smoking ashes of 60+ million slaughtered Europeans…”

    Because Hitler didn’t know when to stop.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  51. Jack ryan says: • Website

    I agree lib Dems spreading Russia stealing the election for Trump conspiracy theories – that s ridiculus.


    I ve heard the rumors Anna Kounikova is in the KGB.

    I ll confess that if KGB colonel Anna K interrogated me wearing a French negligie and Channel #5 …

    I d talk.

    I d love to be in bed with (sexy women) Russians.

  52. Miro23 says:

    The source seems to be a University of Michigan election map showing Republican and Democratic wins at the county level.

    Michael Hart has written an interesting book based on this map,
    working out how the US can be divided at county level into an American Federal Republic (red counties) and a new United Stated (blue counties). The idea is an amicable divorce and he gets into some detail about the mechanics of it.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  53. @Anon

    The Columbus, Ohio News-Dispatch reports that Clinton won 487 counties compared to 2,626 for Trump.

    Unfortunately for Republicans, Clinton’s counties include the most populous ones in the country, which she typically won by overwhelming margins: Los Angeles, Cook County IL (Chicago and some burbs), and the five boroughs of NY City, to name the first ones that come to mind.

    Thank God the non-urban areas pulled us through.

  54. Rurik says:
    @Lord of Wombats

    Because Hitler didn’t know when to stop.

    the reason Hitler didn’t know when to stop was because the Allies insisted upon “unconditional surrender”, and their Morgenthau Plan (the final solution to genocide Germans off the planet) was well known. The Germans understood that if they lost, their enemies would have raped every German women and girl from age eight to eighty and done things like build death camps to starve the German teenage boys to death and sent millions of Germans out of their homes to die of exposure in the frozen wastelands, regardless of their age, sex or political affiliations.

    Germany had a tough choice to make in the early thirties, either side with the Nazis or side with the genocidal commies who were busy starving the Ukrainians by the millions. They sided with the Nazis and perhaps saved the West from the apocalyptic ravages of communism that Eastern Europe was doomed to.

    You can look at WWII though the lens of the victors, like it was some kind of cartoon-like conflict between pure good vs. pure evil, but that’s not very thoughtful or intelligent, and more to the point, it’s wrong.

    Nazism and communism (the allies of the Allies) were two sides of the same coin. Both were imperial movements of conquest, and millions upon millions of people suffered horribly because of it all. The worst thing we could do is not honor their memory, (on all sides) and commit the terrible folly of doing it all again.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Karl
  55. nsa says:

    THS (Trumpster Hysteria Syndrome) is now afflicting the vile lefties en masse. This is doubly enjoyable as the deluded fools are still trying to navigate the seven stages of grief. Recommendation: try warm milk and cookies in your own special safe space….while watching the Direct TV Puppy Channel. And stay away from sharp objects and firearms…….

  56. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    Here is a great article relating to the this by Jim Rickards:

    • Disagree: SolontoCroesus
    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  57. Realist says:

    You have posted that crap before.

    The fact is Hillary officially received 2.8 million more votes than Trump

  58. @Miro23

    The new “blue” country can have New York City, but I don’t want to give up the weather of Los Angeles!

  59. @nsa


    Is it possible/legal that electors vote contrary to their states’ outcome ?

    or is this talk about getting electors to dump Trump nonsense ?

  60. @NoseytheDuke

    Yes, Pizzagate, but there’s more going on while USAians are distracted by Putin-hacked-my-FB recipe page.

    A friend just drew my attention to a report from The Council on Foreign Relations, Repairing the U.S.-Israel Relationship

    Its recommendations include:

    – Reframe the strategic relationship. Invite the Israeli prime minister to Camp David in early 2017 for a summit “focused on developing a new strategic vision for a changing Middle East
    [translation: Bibi is desperate to be made to feel more important than god. Give him the strokes he requires or he’ll throw a tantrum.]

    – Extend and expand defense cooperation. “Enhance Israel’s sense of security and confidence in the United States by committing to expanded missile defense, anti-tunnel, and cybersecurity cooperation
    [translation: Israelis will experience total psychic collapse if they are not continually reminded how everyone hates them, which provides the necessary motivation to get out and Mow the Lawn, any lawn, anywhere ]

    – Focus on making the Iran nuclear deal work. “. . .work together to implement and rigorously enforce it, with a commitment to imposing penalties on Iran for noncompliance
    [translation: Israelis compete most effectively when the playing field is tilted 180 degrees in Israel’s favor. Start Up Nation totally depends on Suppress other Nations]

    – Contain Iran’s regional designs.
    [translation: Israel wanna be cock o’ the walk! Don’t let those Persians look better in big boy pants than we Israelis do. ]

    – Implement steps to improve Palestinian daily life and preserve prospects for negotiated peace.
    [translation: Get US taxpayers to pay to throw a few bones to Palestinians while Israel “preserves prospects” into the distant future for a “negotiated peace.”]

    – Rebalance the partnership by expanding economic cooperation.
    [translation: At 30 USA -70 Israel USAians are getting waaaay too much out of the special relationship. Let’s make a deal for 5 USA – 95 Izzies. Final offer.]

    How will Congress receive these recommendations? What will Trump do with them?

  61. @Anon

    It’s a stupid article.

    Rickards offers the freshest ideas of the 19th century.

    Deo volente Trump will smash his fist on Rickard’s Risk board; announce, This game is so last century; let’s devise some new foreign relations models that don’t require that someone be disadvantaged; rather, let’s hark back to principles George Washington recommended and be part of a rising tide that lifts all boats.

    i.e. instead of fighting and trying to disrupt/destroy The New Silk Road (One Belt One Road), participate in it fairly and respectfully.

    What a concept!

  62. Kiza says:

    Are you sure that you are not mixing Mike Whitney with someone else? I have not seen any of his articles ever praising Killary. Sorry, but what is ICH? I tried to find the pro-Killary article you referred to but failed.

    I believe that Mike is way too smart to have swallowed DNC bull even for a microsecond. Also, I think that more lefties are disappointed by Jill Stein than by Killary. As one of our conservatives said – Bernie will be envious of Jill’s new waterfront mansion next door. The general problem of the left is that hypocrisy and demagoguery are the foundation of their outlook and their organization. Most if not all leaders of the left want to cash-in on their leftism. It is all for money, power and privilege, because the leaders are always more equal than others.

    Whitney, Pilger and few others excepted, all Western left is faux left (to abuse the now established cliche).

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  63. @landlubber

    I’ve done a lot of CJS work in areas involving serial murder and the like. I was once a consultant to the FBI’s VICAP program. There is a lot of material here that screams for a more thorough investigation.

    First, the uncanny resemblance between the police sketches of suspects in the Madeline McMann kidnapping case and the Podesta brothers. These sketches were made back in 2007, long before Pizzagate broke on the internet. I’ve seldom seen as good a match between a sketch and the perpetrator when he is ultimately caught. To have a double match this good by chance defies the laws of probability.

    Second, the complete erasure of John Podesta’s emails from before 4 May 2007. Madeline McCann disappeared on 3 May 2007. A very odd coincidence.

    Third, Podesta’s definite ties to at least one pedophile, Dennis Hastert. And his plausible links to Clement Freud through Jeffrey Epstein. Both these men are notorious for trafficking in and raping young girls and even arranging orgies involving child abuse.

    Fourth, Tony Podesta’s well publicized “art” collection which is replete with images of child abuse and the sado-sexual abuse of young children.

    Fifth, the appearance of symbols associated with pedophilia and child sexual abuse in the logos, advertising, and decoration of a cluster of pizzerias in DC associated with the Podestas and other prominent social and political figures. These symbols were enumerated in 2007 in a
    purported FBI bulletin (I’ve been unable to confirm the validity of this bulletin but it was widely disseminated in 2007 and Slate even had an on-line essay on the material.) Why would a cluster of pizzerias all have multiple depictions of symbols publicly associated with the sexual
    abuse of children as early as 2007? This question becomes even more poignant when we learn that a large swath of these pizzerias’ more prominent clientele have had persistent rumors that they were involved in sexual perversions involving children swirling around them for

    Sixth, the recurring odd references to food, particularly pizzas and other “fast food” items, that keep cropping up in Podesta’s Wikileaked emails. Any half-way alert reader that scans all of these soon notices a persistent pattern suggesting that some kind of code is operating.

    Perhaps any one or two of these “coincidences” might not be suggestive that something dark and monstrously evil is happening. But taken all together they cry to heaven for further investigation.

    That a purge of internet sites and archived MSM materials related to Pizzagate began soon after the story gained traction is not reassuring. Neither is the MSM’s ham-fisted attempts to brand this as a non-story believed only by kooks. Something is going on here. The smoke is thick, Sooner or later some investigator will discover some undeniable piece of brutally incriminating evidence and this scandal will burst into flames. Until then it is up to the internet’s “fake news” sources to keep this story going.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
    , @utu
  64. @Realist

    The very point, realist, is that:

    (1) there is good reason to think that the “official” count includes a substantial number of illegal votes, primarily votes by non-citizens (whether illegal aliens or legal permanent residents);

    (2) without ANY requirement that people show proof of US Citizenship before voting in a federal election, there is no reliable way to stop non-citizens from voting in federal elections, and no way to have any confidence whatsoever that non-citizens have not in fact done so.

    If we want to be sure that the “official” count does not include votes by non-citizens, we will need to enact and strictly enforce a federal requirement that nobody be allowed to vote until he shows proof of US Citizenship (preferably a US Passport book or US passport card).

    Do you support such a requirement? If not, why not?

    • Agree: Miro23
    • Replies: @Realist
  65. Skeptikal says:
    @Jus' Sayin'...

    Glad to see a cogent summary of Pizzagate on this thread.
    Other readers, pls go over to the Pizzagate thread to see more (including quite a few debunkers but also more thoughtful background info).
    I, too, find the match of the two pictures uncanny.
    I think photos of the Podestas should be s hown to the Portuguese investigators and those who provided the descriptions for the e-fits and see what the reactions are.
    If this were a TV “cold case” and suddenly this type of evidence started showing up, it would be pursued immediately.

    As has been mentioned on the other Unz thread, the biggest oddity here is that so far no victim/witness has shown up, aside from the possibility of Madeleine McCann.
    But none in the DC area.
    Does this mean that if there is something going on, the children involved are Haitians or something and therefore “nonpersons” in the USA?
    The prevalence of large “wash-down” areas in the photos is definitely the creepiest thing about the pictures shown

  66. utu says:

    Trump’s counter move?

    Arizona Sheriff Arpaio Revives Obama Birther Conspiracy With New Claims

    I watched the press conference. I am not convinced that the new argument is the slum dunk one but it is pretty strong. They have some other person BC from which some features seemed to be copy-pasted to Obama’s long form BC.

    I think it is a good move. I think they sat on the new evidence but decided to act now. I would not be surprised if the sleazy operative Roger Stone was behind the timing. I would do the same but I am not sleazy.

  67. Skeptikal says:

    No, I am not confusing Mike Whitney with anyone else.
    ICH = Information Clearing House.
    ICH does not have a searchable archive, although if one has the specific link from an older page, it will open up.
    I no longer have the ICH email with the links.
    However, I am not mistaken.
    I was way too taken aback, as were other commenters and followers of Whitney.
    He had decided that Clinton was the lesser of the two evils.
    Most on ICH disagreed with him on that, and on his reasoning.
    Best to contact him directly if you don’t believe me.

  68. utu says:
    @Jus' Sayin'...

    “To have a double match this good by chance defies the laws of probability.”

    What about your laws of probability if Podesta brothers haven’t been in Portugal?

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
    , @Jus' Sayin'...
  69. Skeptikal says:

    “What about your laws of probability if Podesta brothers haven’t been in Portugal?”

    Well, let’s find out once and for all.
    Check out their passports and travel records.
    Question their pal who has the villa a half mile away.

  70. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    Did Hitler have to invade the USSR?

    But your ilk will prolly say USSR was gonna attack first, so Hitler had to attack first, blah blah.

    I’ve heard it all.

    But, for the sake of argument, let’s say Stalin did intend to attack first, and that is why Germans launched the first strike.

    Even so, why did Hitler have to wage a genocidal war against the Slavic Race? Why didn’t he just try to topple the communist regime and liberated Russians? The fact that Hitler intended to kill tens of millions of Russian and turn rest in slaves proves that he was worse than Stalin. The nut’s intention was to raze Moscow to the ground. His goal was to keep Slavs illiterate and reduced to slaves lower than blacks in the American South.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
    , @edNels
  71. fnn says:

    Well-known and respected blogger John Robb says he is worried that the CIA EC coup against Trump is going very well:

    There’s an electoral coup underway.

    The number of potentially faithless Republican electors is now up to 50, more than enough to deny Trump the votes he needs for an EC win and/or give Hillary Clinton the votes she needs to win.

    The stealth effort, led by liberals who believe Trump is a danger to the US, has been underway since the election.

    That effort only gained traction with Republican electors when the CIA leaked that Russia had intervened in the US election to help Trump win.

    Of course, the timing of the CIA’s leak wasn’t random.

    It was something much more sinister. It was an opening salvo by the CIA to actively influence the Electoral College and stop Donald Trump from becoming President.

    In other words, the CIA is trying to topple Trump.

    Why? Self preservation.

    The real reason is that Trump was working with Peter Thiel to corporatize the intelligence gathering of the United States around companies, like Palantir, that can adopt and employ technology much faster and with more efficacy. In other words, Trump is planning to turn the CIA and the NSA into peripheral collection systems.

  72. Avery says:

    Keith Olbermann meltdown video was quite entertaining.

  73. Karl says:

    > Can it be, Trump is skipping ‘intelligence briefings’ because he recognizes it as inflated bullshit and full of doctored evidence?

    he commented about those briefings, an d my read of those comments is: “there’s less real news per 24 hours than you think”

    CNN et al WANT there to exist that arrival-rate of real news, because they’ve got advertising to sell. They are NOT in the business of public service – they are in the business of selling advertising spots.

    Trump will stay informed, moment-by-monet, of actual changes that need a Presidential decision.

    For everything else, the Situation Room has enough Watchstanders, and a good Navy Coffee Mess.

  74. Karl says:

    > Germany had a tough choice to make in the early thirties, either side with the Nazis or side with the genocidal commies who were busy starving the Ukrainians by the millions.

    Hitler *did* sign a live-&-let-live deal with Stalin…. and it wasn’t Stalin who weaseled on the deal.

    I have living ancestors who are old enough to remember that IN THE BEGINNING, the Communist Party of the USA was praising the dogshit out of Hitler.

  75. @utu

    A good question. So I assume that you agree there should be an investigation to find the answer and either eliminate the Podestas as suspects or begin making a real case against them.

    • Replies: @BucephalusXYZ
  76. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    Surreal world.

  77. Eagle Eye says:

    Soros, Barry and the machine are clearly preparing the ground for a massive censorship move, not coincidentally burying the smoldering Pizzagate affair.

    See this carefully constructed article on “Fake News Websites in the United States” on Soros-controlled (yes) Wikipedia.

  78. Eagle Eye says:

    True, several million more BALLOTS were counted for Hillary.

    In terms of actual votes cast by AMERICAN CITIZENS, Hillary is probably 2-3 million behind Donald Trump. Inconsistencies discovered in the course of Jill Stein’s recount initiatives showed strong indications of ballot stuffing for Hillary.

    In addition, voting by illegals and dead people, multiple voting etc. occurred on a massive scale in key states (e.g. Nevada) but would not be caught in a recount.

  79. Good discussion from Eric Raymond (albeit not focused on the Russia angle):

  80. @Jus' Sayin'...

    This issue seems to stand precariously on the divide between the batsh*t crazy and the diabolical. I am not certain where I come down.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  81. Realist says:

    “(1) there is good reason to think that the “official” count includes a substantial number of illegal votes, primarily votes by non-citizens (whether illegal aliens or legal permanent residents);”

    That sounds just like the lefty bullshit being promoted about Russian involvement in our recent election.

    “Do you support such a requirement? If not, why not?”

    I support voter ID, but not passport. I’ll be god damned if I am going to get a passport to vote.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  82. Skeptikal says:

    “Even so, why did Hitler have to wage a genocidal war against the Slavic Race? Why didn’t he just try to topple the communist regime and liberated Russians?”


  83. Skeptikal says:

    ” I am not certain where I come down”

    How can anyone “come down” when there is a blackout of information and no investigation.
    When in doubt, seek more information.
    Surely you can “come down” on the side of doing a pretty straightforward investigation of the very dense clouds of smoke emitted in the PizzaGate emails.
    The more the NYT repeats “fake,” “false,” “conspiracy theory” in the absense of an investigation, the more suspicious things look. They are really overdoing it.

  84. Rurik says:

    . I’ll be god damned if I am going to get a passport to vote.

    you should get a passport in any case my friend, and use it. Get used to going off shore.

    as Ron Paul correctly points out, that wall on our border could one day be used to keep people in. Dr. Paul has a good understanding of history and human nature.

    • Replies: @Realist
  85. Boris N says:

    Russia belongs to the Russians and not the ((( russians ))) nowadays. That,s why she gets so much hate.

    I must disappoint you. You got a wrong impression. If we speak about whom Russia belongs, its wealth, its economic assets belong to a few oligarchs and oligarchic clans, the majority of whom are openly ethnic non-Russians, and those few who seem to be ethnic Russians are rather ((( Russians ))), or better say, ethnically blind greedy post-Soviet oligarch nomenklatura. They could care less about Russia, they are colonial management to control the export of raw resources to the Western metropole. If you ever heard about the absentee landlords in 19th-century Ireland, this is how modern Russia actually works.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  86. Skeptikal says:
    @Boris N

    Document your assertions?

    • Replies: @Boris N
  87. Realist says:

    Americans should learn more about their own country rather than foreign countries.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  88. Rurik says:

    Americans should learn more about their own country

    like what for instance?

  89. Skeptikal says:

    Well, I should hope that our brains are big enough to accommodate information about both our own country and other countries.

    But when I look around me I am not so sure.
    Maybe there isn’t actually an app for that.
    A “Genuine Curiosity App.”

    • Replies: @Realist
  90. Anonymous [AKA "Zaireek"] says:

    What’s even worse is how so many of them are shamelessly using mock or flat-out earnest Soviet references with this whole thing. The color red, the hammer and sickle, references to “comrade” and generic russian names, James Carville multiple times referring to the “KGB” on national TV, screeching about “the kremlin” etc. etc. I’ve actually seen some liberals call Trump a “communist.” If you’d been living under a rock, you’d think the left never urged understanding to flat out appeasement to the Soviets in years past and decried McCarthyism and fearmongering over Russians the most, or have for years brushed with socialist ideas and accepted sympathizers to outright socialists and communists among their ranks, nevermind their approach to Iraq and the war on terror. It’s as if they want to make Russia out to be this great right-wing, white supremacist, christian theocratic empire AND virtually unchanged since the Soviet era (and is if they’ve always been the ones who’ve always been on the look out for Russia and that they’re the real patriots.)

    And while I’ve personally said it before (and I’m not alone), I think this, unlike anything else proves how utterly amoral and devoid of any principles countless liberals truly are. That these pieces of garbage would be willing to disavow mountains of things they once held dear essentially because the democrats told them to and they hate Trump so much is as clear of proof as you’ll ever need.

  91. edNels says:

    I wonder if you aren’t one of the sock puppets from Fire dog Lake?

    Dr Ed as Linguist: asks: who ever needs to say something like Prolly to shorten Probably? I saw that device/thing there, years ago… some particular … short hand whistles… so see, now your clever things come home when… such as me, who was never on that stupid reservation… but I figured…

    Hey no harm.. pal. Tell me if I have it right… we can start a new conversation… no longer to go to FDL, what a bunch anyways…

  92. Anonymous [AKA "Carl 90"] says:

    Replying to Comment #2 “Just imagine the reaction when he actually takes power……”

    You can keep kicking them in the teeth and help jumpstart Trump’s administration by
    “Weaponizing your wallet”. Just stop spending money in Obama’s term and save your purchases for when Donald Trump is our president.

    Oil changes, restocking, ordering supplies, repairs, save it all for Trump’s economy.

  93. Realist says:

    Ninety percent of Americans do not have the money or time to learn more about America and foreign countries.

    Bon voyage

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  94. Skeptikal says:

    Oh, please.
    Most people know how to read, and have a computer and spend a of time on said computer or “device.”
    Or, was this meant sarcastically? I sure hope so, because if not it probably explains a lot of the “trouble with Americans.”

    • Replies: @Realist
  95. Realist says:

    The topic was foreign travel. If you can’t keep up get out.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  96. Skeptikal says:

    Realist: “Ninety percent of Americans do not have the money or time to learn more about America and foreign countries.”

    Realist: “The topic was foreign travel. If you can’t keep up get out.”

    Huh? I don’t see any mention of foreign travel.

    What an extremely rude comment.

  97. Realist says:

    “Huh? I don’t see any mention of foreign travel. ”

    The reason you don’t see it is because three posters counting you, stuck their noses into an original post to Wally #20 it then devolved into different subjects because of other poster intervention up to #88 where ‘offshore travel was mentioned. But if you knew how to follow replies back you would know that.

    “What an extremely rude comment.”
    Do you need a comfort puppy? How about some Play-Doh?

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  98. Boris N says:

    The Forbes’ lists of billionaires for a start (but that’s just a tip of an iceberg). Various open sources showing who owns what where a great deal of Russian principal economical assets such as leading companies or mines belong, through confusing chains of mediators, to some very conspiracy-looking little known obscured companies registered somewhere in the Netherlands, Luxembourg or places like the British Virgin Islands. It is impossible to list them all here, and the full picture is known only to intelligence agencies, it deserves a whole lot of journalistic investigations of hundreds or thousands of pages. If it ever be exposed it sure might be ten times more scandalous than the Panama papers.

    May I ask you, you are not Russian, are you? Because for Russians the real crooked and foreign nature of the Russian rulings class is obvious. You just read day by day Russian newspapers about how that and that oligarch or state official buys another 100bn yacht or villa in Nice, their children study in elite schools and colleges in the UK or the USA, and their whole families living in the heart of the Western “enemies” of the Kremlin, and you get the picture.

  99. Svigor says:

    Clinton campaign officials have suggested that President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia could be trying to tilt the election to Mr. Trump, who has expressed admiration for the Russian leader.”

    They can’t even be honest about why Putin would want to tank cankles’ candidacy: because he hates her guts (because she stirred up shit in Russia over an election, has threatened military confrontation with Russia over Ukraine, Crimea, and Syria, and generally talked a lot of shit about him), and thinks she’s a psycho.

    This Putin Loves Trump thing, of course, is the Nu-Nu Narrative; what with the previous, less-Nu Narrative having less utility at present:

    Why Putin hates Hillary

    Why Putin fears a Clinton presidency

    For Putin, stopping Clinton is not only an important strategic goal. It is also personal.

    Back in 2011, Putin faced the biggest protests the country had seen since the collapse of the Soviet Union. He had served two terms as president, the maximum allowed, and in 2008 had become prime minister, in a maneuver that allowed him to effectively hold power while his ally, Dmitry Medvedev, was president. Then he announced — to much anger, but little surprise — that he would seek a third term as president. Three months later, the opposition erupted in fury when his party won a landslide victory in legislative elections amid allegations of fraud.

    Despite the frigid Moscow temperatures, thousands massed in the streets calling for fair elections and for an end to Putin’s seemingly endless rule. Signs and chants declared, “Putin is a thief!” Putin’s hold on power faced a genuine threat. Then-Secretary of State Clinton openly sided with the protesters. “The Russian people, like people everywhere,” she said, “…deserve free, fair, transparent elections.”

    Putin was fuming. He blamed the protests on Clinton, accusing her of sending “a signal” to the opposition.

    In contrast to Trump, she has made countless comments over the years to suggest she would present a much tougher opponent to Putin’s ambitions than Barack Obama has been, saying she thinks the United States must find ways to “confine, contain, [and] deter Russian aggression in Europe and beyond.”

    Once out of office, her criticism of Russia became cutting.

    When Putin justified Russia’s 2014 takeover of Crimea as an effort to protect Russian minorities there, Clinton said it was reminiscent of Hitler’s justification for taking over parts of Eastern Europe. Putin later commented that Clinton has “never been too graceful in her statements.”

    Clinton was implicitly critical of Obama’s restrained response, saying, “I am in the category of people who wanted us to do more in response to the annexation of Crimea and the continuing destabilization of Ukraine.”

    And just as Putin targeted her by name, she, too, has gone after him personally. In a speech last year, she said, “I remain convinced that we need a concerted effort to really up the costs on Russia and in particular on Putin.”

    While Obama has maintained an extremely restrained approach to the crisis, sending Secretary of State John Kerry to multiple, so far useless, diplomatic marathons with his Russian counterpart even as Russia continues bombing civilians in support of Assad, Clinton sounds determined to impose a no-fly zone, which would defy not only Syria’s army but also Russia.

    A few years ago, Putin mused, speaking about Clinton, that “It’s better not to argue with women.” It’s clear now why he’s going to great lengths to avoid having to argue with a President Hillary Clinton.

    These fuckers are professional liars, and they’re no good at even that. NYT has become the John Lovitz of Big Media. Actually, the whole of Big Media is like Lovitz’ character, but I like singling out the Times anyway.

    The establishment’s whole tack with Trump is a loser. They’re so busy virtue-signaling, that they can’t even employ basic psychology. Trump is probably much more vulnerable to “strange new respect” and flattery, than he is to direct challenges and fights over Who’s The Boss. All they’re doing is giving him the excuse he needs to defenestrate them.

    It would have been helpful if the Times had given the story a bit of context, that is, pointed out that the US has relentlessly expanded NATO eastward establishing military bases in all of the former Soviet satellite states, toppled the Moscow-friendly regime in Ukraine, and built nuclear weapons sites in east Europe just a few hundred miles from Moscow.

    True. While I for one have zero sympathy with Russian complaints (“fuck Russia,” said the Poles, the Czechs, the Slovaks, the Hungarians, etc.), I also have no sympathy for hiding the facts, or pretending Russia has no right to resist in pursuit of their strategic objectives.

    Do you think that bloodthirsty Hillary would be on-board with such a plan?

    Of course she would. Hillary never met a war she didn’t like.

    Hillary is living proof that you don’t want anything but a supremely self-assured and well-educated* woman (Hillary is neither) as CiC, because most of them are far too vulnerable to overcompensating to impress the menfolk.

    * Service in combat arms may serve as a substitute, jury’s still out.

    • Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji
  100. Svigor says:

    ICH does not have a searchable archive, although if one has the specific link from an older page, it will open up.

    Every site has an “archive,” e.g:

    A few more key words and you’re golden.

    Well-known and respected blogger John Robb says he is worried that the CIA EC coup against Trump is going very well:

    John Robb seems far too interested in monetizing everything for me to respect him well. I’m here saying he’s wrong.

    Ninety percent of Americans do not have the money or time to learn more about America and foreign countries.

    Bon voyage

    The average white American spends about 5 hours a day watching TV (IIRC; the figure was 7 hours a day for blacks, and 3 or 3.5 for yellows).

    And I don’t care about what the conversation was originally about.

  101. Svigor says:

    Jury’s still out on Pizzagate, lubber. I find most conspiracy theories to be absolute tripe, but I don’t dismiss them out of hand. I’m going to wait and see on Pizzagate.

    Since the American people are better off having the information that was hacked, if the Russians did it, weren’t they objectively performing a public service? Who can call an election illegitimate when the infraction consisted of the propagation of truth?

    Well said.

    The last election proves that. Hillary won the popular vote in spite of her corrupt, lying bullshit.

    The popular vote and two bucks will buy you a cup of coffee. “But we controlled the game clock!” NGAF, STFU already.

    Had the Democrats run with Bernie Sanders rather than the immensely unlikeable Hillary Clinton they could have won the presidency.

    But everyone here knows that already.

    Yeah, the Democrat establishment moved Heaven and Earth to make sure cankles was their candidate, and not Bernie.

  102. @Svigor

    Back in 2011, Putin faced the biggest protests the country had seen since the collapse of the Soviet Union..

    Your CNN quote (and the western narrative in general) is misleading. In 2011 Putin faced nothing. The protests were aimed at the parliamentary election (that was alleged to be falsified), and had nothing to do with with Putin.

    Presidential election was next year, 2012, and the government made an effort to make it more transparent, with video cameras installed at the polling places and so on. Putin won that election with (from memory) 67% of the vote, with the Communist leader being the remote second, and that time no one (no one credible, that is) alleged any serious irregularities…

  103. Skeptikal says:

    Ha, ha, congratulations on your PhD in “Following Comments.”
    I expect following comments is the only travel you know anything about.

    You know where you can stick your Play-Doh.
    In your dirty mouth.

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