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The Covid BioWeapon: Made in the USA, Aimed at China
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“…..we are left with the strong likelihood that Covid came from a laboratory (and) was designed as a bioweapon… China was the intended target (and) America seems the likely source of the attack… The most likely suspects would be rogue elements of our national security establishment… The virus and its dispersal devices might have been obtained from Ft. Detrick and CIA operatives… would have been sent to Wuhan to release it.” Ron Unz, Editor of The Unz Review; from the text

Question 1– What makes your theory about the origins of SARS-CoV-2 so controversial, is not that it suggests that the pathogen was created in a lab, but that it is, in fact, a bioweapon that was deliberately released by US agents prosecuting a secret war on presumed enemies of the United States. Here’s the “money quote” from your article titled, “American Pravda: George Orwell’s Virus Lab-Leak”:

“…..we are left with the strong likelihood that Covid came from a laboratory along with a good possibility that it was designed as a bioweapon, yet we lack serious indications that any lab-leak occurred. So if the original Wuhan outbreak was due to the deployment of a powerful bioweapon but not one that had accidentally leaked from any lab, then surely China was the intended target, the victim rather than the perpetrator….

Given our ongoing military and geopolitical confrontation with China, America seems the likely source of the attack… The most likely suspects would be rogue elements of our national security establishment, probably some of the Deep State Neocons whom Trump had placed near the top of his administration.

This small handful of high-level plotters would have then drawn upon the resources of the American national security apparatus to actually carry out the operation. The virus and its dispersal devices might have been obtained from Ft. Detrick and CIA operatives or members of special forces would have been sent to Wuhan to release it…. In effect, what happened was a Dr. Strangelove-type scenario, but brought to real life.” (“American Pravda: George Orwell’s Virus Lab-Leak”, Ron Unz, The Unz Review)

So, here’s the question: Do you think recent developments lend credibility to your explosive theory or do you now believe that Covid-19 was merely “accidentally” leaked through human error?

Ron Unz– As everyone knows, over the last month the entire “mainstream narrative” of the Covid outbreak has been completely overturned. Just a few weeks ago, anyone suggesting the virus was artificial was denounced and ridiculed as a “conspiracy theorist” and any such statements were automatically banned by Facebook.

But exactly these same prohibited ideas are now widely accepted and promoted by leading figures in the media and political establishments. The 45-year veteran of the New York Times who spearheaded its Covid coverage has now admitted that he was completely mistaken, and that the virus probably came from a lab. The three billion Facebook users can now openly discuss this possibility.

The total collapse of this “natural virus” propaganda-bubble was produced by a self-published 11,000 word article by longtime science journalist Nicholas Wade. Yet the astonishing thing is that almost none of the crucial facts he cited in his article were new. Nearly all of Wade’s important evidence had been publicly available for a full year, but was simply ignored by our entire political and media establishment, partly because Trump took that position and they all hated Trump.

So the virus probably came from a lab. But the question now becomes “which lab?” Just as the MSM had promoted the totally unsubstantiated belief that Covid was natural, the MSM has now begun promoting the equally unsubstantiated belief that Covid accidentally leaked from China’s Wuhan Institute of Virology. However, the evidence of any such Wuhan lab-leak is so thin as to be almost invisible.

It’s true that Chinese researchers at that lab were experimenting with related bat viruses, but many American researchers were doing very similar experiments, and for decades bat viruses have also been the central focus of America’s huge biowarfare program.

Wuhan is an enormously large metropolis of 11 million, much larger than New York City, and the Wuhan lab is located 20 miles(!) from the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market, which was the earliest epicenter of the Wuhan outbreak. A distance of 20 miles seems pretty far for an accidental lab-leak.

Immediately after the initial Wuhan outbreak, the virus began infecting Iran’s top political elites, and killing a number of them. Isn’t it implausible that a random lab-leak in Wuhan would so quickly jump to the Holy City of Qom on the other side of the world?

There are many other aspects of the timing of the outbreak that seem very inconsistent with a random, accidental lab-leak.

Until a few weeks ago, the MSM and Facebook shut down anyone who disagreed with the “natural virus” theory, even though the evidence for an artificial virus had always been much stronger. They’ve now said “Oops! We were wrong. The virus probably came from a lab.” So I think they’ll now have a much harder time shutting down any debate about which lab.

Once people became aware of the basic facts of the virus, belief that it was artificial natural quickly collapsed. And once people become aware of the basic facts of the initial Covid outbreak, I think that belief in an accidental lab-leak will also begin to collapse.

Question 2–You seem to have anticipated my next question, but I’ll go ahead and ask it anyway. In another one of your articles, you say this:

“As the coronavirus gradually began to spread beyond China’s own borders, another development occurred that greatly multiplied my suspicions. Most of these early cases had occurred exactly where one might expect, among the East Asian countries bordering China. But by late February Iran had become the second epicenter of the global outbreak. Even more surprisingly, its political elites had been especially hard-hit, with a full 10% of the entire Iranian parliament soon infected and at least a dozen of its officials and politicians dying of the disease, including some who were quite senior. Indeed, Neocon activists on Twitter began gleefully noting that their hatred Iranian enemies were now dropping like flies.

Let us consider the implications of these facts. Across the entire world the only political elites that have yet suffered any significant human losses have been those of Iran, and they died at a very early stage, before significant outbreaks had even occurred almost anywhere else in the world outside China. Thus, we have America assassinating Iran’s top military commander on Jan. 2nd and then just a few weeks later large portions of the Iranian ruling elites became infected by a mysterious and deadly new virus, with many of them soon dying as a consequence. Could any rational individual possibly regard this as a mere coincidence?”

My question is this: Is this the smoking gun? In other words, do these two “attacks” on enemies of the United States strongly suggest Washington’s involvement?

Ron Unz– Well, it’s certainly an *extremely* odd coincidence for those who claim the global Covid outbreak was caused by an accidental, random lab-leak of a virus in Wuhan, China.

Iran is on the other side of the world from China, and very few Chinese visit the Holy City of Qom. So it’s extremely strange that the Covid virus would have jumped so extremely quickly from a Wuhan lab-leak to Iran’s top political leadership, which suffered the next major outbreak.

A few weeks afterward, the third major world outbreak began in Northern Italy, but 200,000 Chinese live and work in that region, and many had just returned from their Lunar New Year holiday in China. The Chinese population in Qom is absolutely negligible by comparison. The Italian outbreak makes perfectly logical sense while the one in Qom does not.

None of this constitutes proof, but it raises huge doubts about the likelihood of the random lab-leak hypothesis. By contrast, the deliberate release of a viral bioweapon seems a much more plausible explanation of both these outbreaks.

America has the world’s largest and most comprehensive biowarfare program, and America’s two leading international adversaries—China and Iran—were almost simultaneously hit by a mysterious, deadly virus. Suspicion seems to point in a pretty obvious direction.

If the Colombo crime family of NYC is locked in a bitter feud with the Genoveses, and two capos of the latter are found shot to death in a 24-hour period, maybe they both suddenly decided to commit suicide. But most sensible observers would also tend to consider other possibilities.

Question 3– Shortly after you published your explosive piece suggesting US Intel agents may have been involved in releasing Covid-19 among the Chinese and Iranian people, your website was deplatformed by Google and banned on Facebook? Would you briefly explain what happened and will you also tell us whether you think that your alleged offense was:

1– Suggesting that SARS-CoV-2 was created in a lab?
2– Or, suggesting that Washington might have used SARS-CoV-2 as a bioweapon directed at its geopolitical rivals?

In my opinion, ruling elites don’t really care if people think Covid was man-made. What they’re concerned about, is that people will think it was intentionally released. That is the thought they don’t want us to think.

Ron Unz– Obviously, all this is entirely speculative. But for six years our website had been publishing a wide variety of extremely controversial articles on all sorts of different subjects, and we had never had any problems with either Facebook or Google.

Then in late April 2020, I published my first long article laying out the substantial evidence that the global Covid outbreak might have been due to an American biowarfare attack against China (and Iran), and that article got very strong early traffic, with more Facebook Likes in the first few days than anything I had previously published.

But about ten days after it ran, our website was suddenly banned by Facebook. A few days later, our entire website was deranked by Google, so that all our web pages would appear near the very bottom of Google searches and almost no one would see them. The coincidental timing of these actions seems very suspicious.

At that point, I think we were one of the most popular websites to have ever been banned by Facebook. For example, our traffic far exceeded that of the venerable New Republic, a century old publication that had spent decades as America’s most influential opinion magazine. Although Facebook did publish an official report explaining that month’s bans, our name was barely mentioned, with almost all the pages of discussion devoted to obscure foreign websites in Georgia, Mauritania, or Myanmar, or those located in America’s major geopolitical adversaries such as Russia or Iran. The report explained the reasons for banning VDARE, “a website known for posting anti-immigration content” and then banned our own website for being “similar.”

This explanation seemed very strange. We do regularly republish VDARE articles, but since the beginning of 2020, these had only amounted to 41 of our 1,751 total articles and posts, representing just 0.2% of our content, and few of these VDARE pieces had anything to do with immigration. Meanwhile, Google provided no explanation at all for our sudden purge from their search results.

It seems likely that the sudden purges by Facebook and Google were due to our very extensive Covid coverage over the previous couple of months, culminating in my major article. Among English-language websites, the vast majority of mainstream outlets had been reporting that the virus was obviously natural and denouncing anyone who suggested it came from a lab as “crazy conspiracy theorists.”

Meanwhile, large numbers of right-wing, anti-China, or pro-Trump websites regularly claimed that the Covid outbreak was due to a lab-leak in Wuhan, and sometimes suggested that the virus was a Chinese bioweapon. I think we almost alone in focusing upon America’s huge and well-documented biowarfare program, sometimes publishing important articles that had been rejected elsewhere, and pointing suspicion in that direction.

Because we were banned by Facebook and Google, what should have became a debate over three origin Covid possibilities—a natural virus, a Chinese virus, or an American virus—became a year-long debate between only the first two.

Given enormous negative impact the Covid epidemic has had on America and the rest of the world, it’s easy to understand why our political leadership would be extremely concerned if people merely began to even consider the possibility that the virus may have been produced by an American government lab, let alone deliberately released. And persuading Facebook and Google to block such theories would make perfect sense.

Question 4– There’s a part of your theory I have a problem with. You say: “CIA operatives or members of special forces (may) have been sent to Wuhan to release “(the virus) This could be true, but why do you exclude the possibility that Chinese scientists may have been working either secretly with their US counterparts (Baric, Fauci?) or that the Chinese leadership is cooperating with foreign elites and Intelligence agencies to help them implement authoritarian policies in their own countries? Is that too far-fetched for you to even consider?

Ron Unz– Well, anything’s possible, but there’s simply no evidence of that.

Given the extreme recent hostility between the American and Chinese governments, I think it’s very unlikely that any senior officials of the two countries would be secretly cooperating behind the scenes in releasing the Covid virus.

Since the Trump Administration spent much of the Spring claiming that the Chinese had “covered up” the outbreak, large teams of investigative journalists from our top media outlets devoted many weeks of effort to tracking down the facts. Based upon all available evidence the Chinese government only discovered the existence of this mysterious, unsuspected new virus near the end of December, and almost immediately informed the World Health Organization.

Once the Chinese realized that Covid was highly contagious and spreading around Wuhan, they reacted very quickly. Some local officials tried to ignore or minimize the problem, costing them about a week, but once the national government discovered the danger, it quickly ordered massive public health measures, locking down the entire city of 11 million, and soon expanding the lockdowns to the region and then the entire country, confining 700 million Chinese to their homes for several weeks. This allowed them to completely stamp out the virus, and within a few months, the country was almost back to normal.

Meanwhile, the American government mostly ignored the entire potential problem and the possibility that the virus would back into the U.S. Our CDC botched the production of testing-kits, so for many weeks we had no way of knowing if the virus was starting to spread here. Trump and his supporters engaged in wishful thinking, claiming that the virus wasn’t dangerous and might disappear “like magic.” The American government only started to take the problem seriously after the horrific outbreak in Northern Italy.

Since the American government was harshly denouncing China during this entire period and reacting so differently to their Covid outbreaks, I think it’s very unlikely that American and Chinese leaders had planned the Covid outbreak together or were secretly cooperating in any way.

On the other hand, it’s certainly true that for many years Chinese scientists and American scientists had worked together on viral research, and jointly published papers. But that’s true of scientists all around the world, and until the last few years, China and America had generally been on pretty friendly terms. I don’t think it’s particularly surprising that the American NIH provided some funding to the viral research of the Wuhan lab, and until the Covid outbreak, nobody would have cared about that. As far as I know, America provides research grants to scientists all around the world, and other countries, including China, do the same thing with American research.

And despite all the media hype, I also didn’t see anything particularly surprising in those Fauci emails that were recently released. American financial support for the virus research of the Wuhan lab had never been a secret, and I’ve been reading about it for over a year. However, once Trump and Pompeo began claiming that devastating Covid epidemic had been caused by a Wuhan lab-leak, the situation obviously changed. If they were correct, then everyone in America even somewhat associated with the Wuhan lab could share some of the gigantic blame, including Fauci. So it’s hardly surprising that Fauci and all the others began hiding their connection and also using their influence to try to (dishonestly) persuade the media that the virus was natural, thereby protecting the Wuhan lab and also themselves.

That worked for about a year, and nobody paid attention to the issue. But now that the media has come around to the virus being artificial, the Wuhan lab has become a prime suspect, putting Fauci and the others back in the hot-seat. Fauci seems a dishonest federal bureaucrat, but our entire government is filled with such people, and the focus on Fauci seems ridiculous. I think it’s quite unlikely that Covid was produced in Wuhan or leaked out, so Fauci’s dishonesty was totally unimportant.

Finally, while it’s remotely possible that America intelligence agencies had some spies in Wuhan or even the Wuhan lab, there seems no evidence of this. In fact, the only secret intelligence we allegedly received about events in Wuhan came from a third-country source, which demonstrates our own total lack of information and agents. If we did release the Covid bioweapon in Wuhan, it’s pretty unlikely that we were able to recruit local Chinese agents to carry out the operation.

For about a year, most experts had agreed that the Covid outbreak in Wuhan probably began in late October or early November of 2019. By a remarkable coincidence, there were 300 American military servicemen visiting Wuhan for the World Military Games, which ended in late October. That visit would have provided perfect cover for America to slip a couple of operatives into the group, and have them release the virus in the city. With thousands of foreign military personnel traveling around and doing sightseeing, any risk of detection would have been minimal. That seems much more plausible than the risk of finding and using local Chinese operatives.

What would Americans think if 300 Chinese military officers paid an extended visit to Chicago, and immediately afterwards a mysterious, deadly viral epidemic suddenly broke out in that city?

Question 5— Alot of people who read this interview are going to think, “The United States is not capable of crime like this.” But, over the years, US-funded laboratories have created, modified and stockpiled all manner of toxic agents including “six mass-produced, battle-ready biological weapons”, namely, anthrax, tularemia, brucellosis, Q-fever, VEE, botulism and God knows what else. The United States has also authorized highly controversial human research programs that involved people and groups who were never informed that they were being used as guinea pigs in a government lab experiment. As Jeanne Guillemin said more than three decades ago:

“The entire experimental legacy is dismaying, from the hundreds of dead monkeys at Fort Detrick to … the vaccinated volunteers in Project Whitecoat, strapped to chairs amid cages of animals in the Utah sunlight as Q fever aerosols are blown over them. Most chilling are the mock scenarios played out in urban areas: light bulbs filled with simulated BW agents being dropped in New York subways, men in Washington National Airport spraying pseudo-BW from briefcases, and similar tests in California and Texas and over the Florida Keys.”

US biological weapons were allegedly used in Korea, Vietnam and Cuba although the evidence is not conclusive. The history of these weapons does increase the probability that rogue elements in the national security state, could put them to use if they thought there was some advantage in doing so.

So what do you say to those people who think that the United States would never use a bioweapon, like SARS-CoV-2 , against an enemy?

Ron Unz– Sure, many Americans might regard it as “unthinkable” that their country could have used a biological weapon against China. But it is very widely recognized that for decades America has had the world’s leading biological warfare program, and in fact during the 1950s, it received government resources comparable to our nuclear weapons development efforts.

There seems quite a lot of evidence that those American bioweapons were used during the Korean War, though the claims have been disputed and they anyway turned out to be rather ineffective compared to conventional weapons. There are also claims bioweapons were used against Cuba and perhaps Vietnam.

In any event, our biological warfare capability certainly does exist, with the Ft. Detrick facility being our leading lab. Trump’s lackadaisical response once Covid began leaking back into the U.S. hardly suggests that he initially realized it might be a dangerous bioweapon, so he seems to have been entirely ignorant of the facts. Therefore, the attack against China (and Iran) would have been a rogue operation, probably carried out by elements of the national security apparatus associated with the Deep State Neocons at the top of his administration.

If someone sufficiently senior had been behind the plot, I think it would have been easy for the conspirators to have drawn upon America’s military resources to carry out the operation, with all those lower-level participants believing that they were part of a fully-authorized strike against America’s leading geopolitical adversaries, just as our government soon afterward assassinated Iran’s top military commander. Probably someone such as such as Secretary of State (and former CIA Director) Mike Pompeo or National Security Advisor John Bolton would have had been able to orchestrate the attack.

Such individuals had the means, motive, and opportunity, so it seems absurd for the media to so totally ignore this possibility.

Here’s something to consider. The worst biowarfare attacks in American history occurred just after 9/11, with Anthrax mailings to important political and media figures stampeding Congress into the passing the Patriot Act. The Anthrax attacker attempted to implicate Islamic terrorists in his attacks, but the FBI soon determined that the Anthrax came from our own Ft. Detrick facility, and eventually declared that a government biowarfare researcher named Bruce Ivins was responsible and closed the case, just after he supposedly committed suicide. Whether or not Ivins was actually guilty may be disputed, but the attack was almost certainly carried out by rogue elements of our national security apparatus. So it hardly seems impossible that the Covid outbreak had somewhat similar origins.

As a rogue operation, the Covid attacks could have been organized by a very small handful of individuals, with virtually none of the exhaustive bureaucratic planning that would normally take place. Under such circumstances, the plotters might have casually minimized the possible risk that the disease would leak back into America or our NATO allies, resulting in the disaster which eventually occurred. After all, the previous SARS and MERS coronavirus epidemics had left both America and Europe almost totally unscathed.

There’s one particularly telling clue that has been almost entirely ignored by both the mainstream and alternative media. Most experts believe that the Covid outbreak in Wuhan probably began in late October or early November, but since infections took some time to spread and the virus was initially undetectable, no one in the Chinese government was aware of the outbreak until the end of December. However, several American government sources later revealed to ABC News that as early as November 2019, our Defense Intelligence Agency had distributed a secret report to government officials warning that a “cataclysmic” disease outbreak was taking place in Wuhan. The Pentagon afterwards denied the story, but Israeli TV independently confirmed that the report indeed existed and had been distributed to our NATO allies and Israel. The secret DIA report was prepared in “the second week of November,” at a time when probably only a couple of dozen people were starting to feel a little sick in Wuhan, a city of 11 million, and more than a month before anyone in the Chinese government discovered the outbreak. These facts seem almost impossible to explain if the virus was either natural or was accidentally leaked from the Wuhan lab.

I think that the combination of all this evidence, together with additional material, strongly supports the hypothesis that the Covid outbreak resulted from an American biowarfare attack against China (and Iran), probably a rogue operation orchestrated by the Deep State Neocons in the Trump Administration.

Whether or not others agree with me, it seems absurd and ridiculous for this very serious possibility to be so completely excluded from virtually the entire mainstream and alternative media. I suspect that the reason for this total silence is that the evidence supporting this theory is sufficiently compelling that merely presenting it would quickly convince much of the Western public that a biowarfare attack was the most likely scenario. Therefore, the reaction has been a total blackout of these facts, which have remained unmentionable.

The Biden Neocons have now replaced the Trump Neocons at the helm of our government, but very little has changed in our dangerously anti-China foreign policy. And with the mainstream media wholeheartedly in the Biden camp, their attacks against China on all sort of dubious grounds have intensified. Indeed, the huge outpouring of current media support for the Wuhan lab-leak hypothesis—which argues that Covid was secretly developed by the Chinese, possibly as a bioweapon—only became possible after their hated enemy Trump had left office.

America has the world’s largest biowarfare program, the Trump Administration focused on China as our greatest geopolitical threat, and the Deep State Neocons whom Trump hired were notoriously reckless individuals. It would hardly take a great deal of thought for the media to connect these dots and begin at least considering the obvious possibility they suggest.

Addendum by Ron Unz:

For those who prefer a different format, here’s a link to my hour long presentation of the biowarfare hypothesis on Kevin Barrett’s podcast last month:

And here’s a link to a freely downloadable eBook, containing my four main articles on the subject:

https://www.unz.com/ebook/covid-catastrophe-ebook/

 
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  1. mijj says:

    Will reason and reality break through the US Empire of Illusion’s bubble?

    • Replies: @GomezAdddams
  2. Anonymous[343] • Disclaimer says:

    Mr. Unz,

    That you have no shame has always been a given. It is one of those many human emotions that autistic automatons like you do not and can not feel.

    But you have certain intelligences, as evident by your ability to accrue wealth, create a website and, I’ll be darned, you caan even read and write.

    So even without shame, don’t you have intelligence enough to realize that you are literally Insane?

    [MORE]

    You have displayed precisely 3 emotions over the years.

    First and foremost, Anger. This appears to be the primary enotion you “feel” (can you feel emotions?). Your mindless anger, like a fire can go any which way. But you know of course that anger against Muslims or Biden or Immigration has better writers and thinkers than yourself. Which leads to your next most common emotion:

    The need to be recognized.

    It is why you ran for office, why your websites are under your literal name, and why you choose to direct your anger primarily in areas where you have less competition.

    Finally though, you have, or at least want to be seen as someone having, some level of curiosity.

    That’s a noble emotion and the reason why you uploaded all of those books and magazines — so God knows where one can find them now. Apparently that magnificent page did not get you enough attention so you stopped promoting it.

    Of course most of your curiosity is pre-directed against those whom you imagine are your enemies, probably simply because they are more famous than you.

    Beyond that, you hardly passed the turing test.

    To your credit, I assume that you don’t actually believe the anti-American stuff that you write and probably not even the anti-israel stuff that you write. If you did care about either of these points of view you would shut up and leave the floor to people who are less obviously insane than you are.

    And you are only getting crazier and crazier. Which makes me believe that it is medical.

    You wrote extensively about how covid would be the end of the world. How all of us were in danger and the world was about to end. Did you get anything right about the current craze? Maybe a few small things here and there which others understood and wrote about better than yourself, but your primary prediction was not just off, it was in a different galaxy.

    You are simply crazy. You are like a tone deaf person belting out Con Te Partiro and thinking he is doing a good job at it.

    Ron, speak to any unbiased stranger on earth, be he a common person or a professional, and he will tell you that you do not have the ability to draw conclusions with any accuracy whatsoever. Because you are simply insane.

  3. Chris Moore says: • Website

    Iran is on the other side of the world from China, and very few Chinese visit the Holy City of Qom. So it’s extremely strange that the Covid virus would have jumped so extremely quickly from a Wuhan lab-leak to Iran’s top political leadership, which suffered the next major outbreak.

    That’s the tell, right there. Probably the same ((neocons)) who did 9/11, did Covid 19. False flags are the Zionist modus operandi.

    I bet Trump probably quickly found out, too. So did the Dems, just like the both sides quickly found out who really did 9/11. That’s why Trump didn’t fight the stolen election too hard. He knew the Zionist psychotics were on the warpath again and didn’t mind handing off the mess to the Dems.

  4. Lem says:

    I think it’s very unlikely that any senior officials of the two countries would be secretly cooperating behind the scenes in releasing the Covid virus.

    It is however not unlikely that China cooperated with non-government entities. What people who look into the likely long-term consequences of Covid policies call the Great Reset is a transfer of power from governments to the largest private sector players. That’s not bad for China, therefore it isn’t unlikely.

    Hell, if that’s actually what China did here, it’s a strategic masterstroke.

    • Troll: Harold Smith
  5. Fabulous! Enormous thanks to you both!

    But Ron, please stop saying Iran is on the other side of the world from China.

    • Agree: moi
    • Replies: @Marcali
  6. No references. C’mon mates, you can surely do better than this

    • Replies: @Neuromancer
    , @cassandra
  7. Anonymous[112] • Disclaimer says:

    It’s possible that the US specifically planted the virus in Wuhan in order to blame the lab there for the leak. Then they allowed the virus to spread globally knowing that the actual death toll isn’t all that big and it’s mostly very old people. They implemented all these control measures (masks, vaccines, lockdowns) in order to get people to hate the virus with the idea of pointing that hatred toward China at some future point. And so this could be used as a pretext for a global war (hot or cold) against China. It could also be used as a starting point for endless gene therapy “vaccines”.

    • Agree: Mulga Mumblebrain
    • Thanks: Sarah
  8. onebornfree says: • Website

    If I assume , for the sake of argument,that Mr Unz is correct, and that therefor:

    1] The “virus” is real.

    2] The “virus” is a man-made bioweapon.

    3] The”virus” was created by the US government, which offshored its bioweapons research to China because the research developement of bioweapons was made illegal within the US in 2014.

    4] The”virus” was deliberately leaked by the US, either from the Wuhan lab, or from another suitable location as a way of attacking China…….

    I have to ask: so what? What the hell do you expect?

    Sadly, the article [and many others like it] just boils down to another “sensational”, “click-bait”, “ooh!, look what the nasty, criminal US government’s been doing behind all our backs!” type of deal.

    This “just” in: “War is the health of the state” Randolph Bourne

    Meaning- If you want governments, you must have wars- its in the fine print you never got to read.

    [MORE]

    And the bigger, and more unlimited a government is, the more wars on its own citizens and those of foreign nations it must start/invent in order to justify its own existence and survive another day.

    Conversely,the smaller, and more strictly limited a government is, the less power it has to make war on its own citizens or those of other nations.

    Obviously, the US government is way too large, and entirely not Constitutionally limited anymore, therefor wars initiated by the accidental or deliberate deployment of bioweapons [or whatever] are almost inevitable.

    A reminder- this also”just in”:

    “The State is a gang of thieves writ large – the most immoral, grasping and unscrupulous individuals in any society.” Murray Rothbard

    “The State is, and always has been, the great single enemy of the human race, its liberty, happiness, and progress.”Murray Rothbard

    And I repeat: “War is the health of the state”!

    Either accept that fact and get used to the reality of where we are now [and even worse, where we’re all inevitably headed]- or at least make calls/moves to drastically reduce the war-making powers of the US government, [by drastically downsizing and re-limiting the government to its original size and powers].

    Regards, onebornfree

    • Agree: Adam Smith, Gapeseed, Ryan2
    • Replies: @TheMoon
    , @Joe Levantine
  9. JasonT says:

    There are many layers to deceptions such as the COVID deception so that when one layer becomes untenable the next layer is uncovered. We have gone from the layer where COVID was a ‘natural virus’ to the layer where COVID is a ‘man-made virus’ but leaked from a Chinese lab. Unz occupies yet the next layer down from that where COVID is not a virus that leaked from a Chinese lab but a ‘bioweapon virus’ that was deliberately planted in China by ‘rogue elements’ of the U.S. government. Each layer gets closer to the truth, but still contains distractions and deceptions.

    At the bottom of the layers is a plan for world domination that has been going on for a long time. The plan has been built piece by piece over centuries if not millennia, with each piece being a test for the next step. That the 5G cell tower infrastructure was put into place largely worldwide at the same time during the 2020 lockdowns is a small but telling indication that the plan is yet much deeper than Unz’s speculations.

  10. I still don’t get the bio-weapon thing. Covid-19 has a negligible infection fatality rate of approximately 0.2%. Why would any country with an advanced military–the US, China or anyone else–go to the trouble of re-inventing the flu? It just doesn’t make any sense.

    I still think the whole thing is a hoax being staged by the globalists–and yes, the Chinese are in on it, but no, the plan didn’t originate there.

    • Agree: Hans, Alden
    • Disagree: Sarah
  11. Big Daddy says:

    Why does everybody ignore Lyme Disease? A dead octopus washes upon the shore of Lyme, Ct.; birds pick at it; and bingo, the first cases. What was across the Long Island sound from Lyme? A US bioweapons lab. Now every year in North America 20,oo0 people take a walk in the woods and contract from tick bites an incurable disease.

    FU US Gov!

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @grr
  12. @Anonymous

    You’re the insane one. Never read such a farrago of nonsense.

  13. Ron says: “Immediately after the initial Wuhan outbreak, the virus began infecting Iran’s top political elites, and killing a number of them. Isn’t it implausible that a random lab-leak in Wuhan would so quickly jump to the Holy City of Qom on the other side of the world?”

    Ron maintains that it is implausible to believe that the virus went from Wuhan to Qom yet both public and private Chinese Belt and Road people were trotting all over the near Far East or far Near East and meeting with all kinds of people.

    Further, while we are expected to question the plausibility of the China/Iran connection, we are expected to believe, instead, that somehow the virus went from an American lab to the Holy City of Qom. How was this effected? Why is this more plausible?

    Of the likelihood of America’s spreading the virus in Wuhan, Ron says, “Such individuals had the means, motive, and opportunity, so it seems absurd for the media to so totally ignore this possibility.”

    Acknowledging that we are dealing in probabilities and possibilities and not certain proof here, it would seem to be incumbent upon Ron to provide at least some plausible vector by which the Americans could have accomplished what he denies the Chinese as having any means or method of carrying out.

    • Disagree: GazaPlanet
    • Replies: @Whataboutery2020
    , @Iris
  14. @Digital Samizdat

    What if it was just a dry run to test various systems for the real bioweapon release ?

  15. Rahan says:
    @Anonymous

    Mr. Unz,

    That you have no shame has always been a given. It is one of those many human emotions that autistic automatons like you do not and can not feel.

    But you have certain intelligences, as evident by your ability to accrue wealth, create a website and, I’ll be darned, you caan even read and write.

    God, I love it when worried bureaucrats start participating in online forums to attack dangerous thinking. A not infrequent sight on Eastern European forums. And now here too. O tempora o mores. Fures, mendaces et homicidae.

    • Agree: Tdstype2
    • Thanks: nosquat loquat
  16. anonymous[139] • Disclaimer says:

    Biowarfare so far is most effective as an economic weapon. In Cuba they were able to destroy the pig population causing great economic loss for that island. China has had recent mysterious plagues affecting its farm animals, again incurring economic loss. However, it’s ineffective as an anti-personnel weapon. It had little effect in the Korean war especially in comparison to conventional weapons such as bombs. Healthy, younger people aren’t as vulnerable which means that troops, production workers and others involved in a war effort aren’t impacted very greatly. The effect of covid on Iran was harassing but could not bring it to a crisis point. Older leaders died but they’re quickly replaced. They have a large pool to draw upon and don’t have some irreplaceable royal family setup. The effect upon Iran was close to zero, no policies or capabilities changed. If this was an attack rather than a careless leak then they had high hopes of unleashing a storm that couldn’t materialize.

    • Agree: GazaPlanet, Realist
    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
  17. sonofman says:

    The science of pathogenic viruses has been thoroughly and convincingly debunked. And the pandemic statistics prove that this is more Orson Wellesian as factual, and is being used to institute a new agenda of finance and control by one of the Deep States. There is no Koch-postulate evidence that the Covid-19 virus exists. There is no patient zero. An inapplicable test is being used to show that there are antibodies for a pathogen that doesn’t exist. The inadmissible test for a nonexistent sickness creates false positives and an implausible incidence rate that politicians use to justify emergency legislation for disproportionate and destructive lock-downs, useless money-making vaccines and universal fear mongering. And what about Naomi (the Flu)?

    It can’t be just a coincidence that a specific immune response spreads throughout most of the world after most of the world was in one place, Wuhan, during the Military Olympics. Some vaccines are mandatory and sometimes experimental in the DoD. And there are other examples of outbreaks occurring directly after the introduction of newly concocted vaccines/bio-weapons.

    Under the scrutiny of the Covid-19 hoax and vaccine, the understanding that Influenza is in reality the immune systems seasonal cleansing of toxins accumulated in the body is plausible, viruses are components of the natural immune response for that purpose, and that the shedding of homogenous antibodies is probably the cause of contagiousness.

    • Agree: TheTrumanShow
    • Replies: @PetrOldSack
    , @Stonehands
  18. Ron Unz says:
    @Digital Samizdat

    I still don’t get the bio-weapon thing. Covid-19 has a negligible infection fatality rate of approximately 0.2%. Why would any country with an advanced military–the US, China or anyone else–go to the trouble of re-inventing the flu? It just doesn’t make any sense.

    Actually, most of the evidence is that the Covid fatality rate is substantially higher than you claim, probably at least 0.5%. Moreover, biowarfare experts have long realized that effective anti-economy bioweapons would have particular characteristics, as was pointed out by a retired 40-year veteran of American biowarfare research. Here’s my brief summary of his analysis:

    One important point he made was that high lethality was often counter-productive in a bioweapon since debilitating or hospitalizing large numbers of individuals may impose far greater economic costs on a country than a biological agent which simply inflicts an equal number of deaths. In his words “a high communicability, low lethality disease is perfect for ruining an economy,” suggesting that the apparent characteristics of the coronavirus were close to optimal in this regard. Those so interested should read his analysis and assess for themselves his credibility and persuasiveness.

    https://www.unz.com/article/was-coronavirus-a-biowarfare-attack-against-china/

  19. sonofman says:
    @Chris Moore

    Zionists have power in America only because Democrat and Republican politicians of still the majority European-Americans allow them to have power. The People and non-politician President Trump are fighting the stolen election. The problem is that President Trump has to fight establishment politicians from both parties who have for decades used fraudulent electronic voting to get elected.

    • Replies: @Chris Moore
    , @Realist
  20. David Mi says: • Website

    I think part of the COVID puzzle lies with Virologists’ Ron Fouchier from the Netherlands, and
    Yoshihiro Kawaoka from the University of Wisconsin. They both mastered the ability to turn a known virus through ‘Gain-of-Function’ and make it airborne transmissible.
    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2011/11/scientists-brace-media-storm-around-controversial-flu-studies

  21. Anonymous[124] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    I was the first person to point out the Virus was Made in USA! I know 100% America is one lying Ungodly Satanic Nation , I trust my US Government as far as I can spit!!! Wake up Americans US Government is the biggest threat to you and to humanity, MARK MY WORDS.

    • Replies: @Chris Moore
  22. Max Payne says:

    I suspect Iran was meant to be blamed for the outbreak. As a bioweapon. Authorize Iraq-style coalition invasions to get rid of those WMDs with an outbreak to sell it this time. Somehow it was botched and Wuhan is where it happened.

    But then again Iran also had a few participants at the 2019 military world games…. Maybe some of those Ali’s flew to Qoms after the games, few hand shakes with some politicans is always good for the papers….

    • Replies: @Craig Nelsen
    , @Arco
  23. Chris Moore says: • Website
    @Anonymous

    Saying a Zionist network of loosely organized sociopaths being led by a cabal of kosher psychopaths = “100% America is one lying Ungodly Satanic Nation” is something only a pro-ZOG propagandist would say.

  24. Rashkae says:

    Iran and China are only separated by Pakistan. Iran’s first cases were reported Feb 19th in the now deleted article in the NY Times: https://archive.is/CuAQZ Whereas Wikipedia has Russia as having it’s first 2 cases Jan 31st: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Russia

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  25. OK, how about this one, for you occultist enthusiasts?

    Do you notice that it’s NINETEEN (19) years from the date of Sept 11 (9-11-2001) to the declaration of the this thing as a pandemic? There is your 1,9, or reversed 9,1. And naturally, it is called covid-19! Another 1,9.

    It was declared a pandemic on March 22, 2020. There is your Skull BS 322 number. Coincidences? So, is this the second assault on our nation by the SAME bastards???

    • Thanks: GazaPlanet
  26. Notsofast says:

    …..the american government mostly ingnored the entire potential problem and the possibility that the virus would back into the u.s….. mr. unz seems to paint this as incompetence where i see it as a willful act that went entirely as planned. interestingly rubicon tells us on another whitney thread that bobby kennedy jr. has a book coming out in sept called “the real anthony fuaci” discussing the purposeful world wide spreading of the disease. there is a lew rockwell interview with kennedy that came out yesterday. would love to see a mike whitney interview with bobby kennedy jr.

  27. @JasonT

    Correct, brilliant.

    A single world ‘government’ ruled from Jerusalem.

    • Agree: TheTrumanShow
    • Replies: @JasonT
    , @TheTrumanShow
    , @Hans
  28. It has come down to a simple equation: Jewish elites vs China.

    China’s working with US virologists and immunologists on gain of function research with Corona viruses was simply China recognizing that they were vulnerable (more lung-based ACE2 receptors), they knew they would ultimately be a target, and this was simply the Chinese keeping their ‘enemies closer’.

    I suspect the Chinese were anticipating the future release and doing their best to be prepared, and it showed. The West, well, we all know what happened, as we’re still living the nightmare daily.

    My question is: was this America’s neocon deep state long-term plan all along? A successful operation to ‘set up’ the Chinese government for the virus release by working with them to do the research at Wuhan, thus providing the Americans the perfect background to allege the ‘accidental release’ theory, and with plans to bill (sanction) China for the damages, confiscating Chinese assets world-wide as part of the ‘debt collection’ (like they do to Iran, Syria, Venezuela, etc.). A plan that was supra political affiliations other than support for the most critical neocon goal, i.e., maintaining American supremacy (as the vehicle for Jewish supremacist interests.) Sure looks that way.

    And I wonder if the world-wide findings of Covid in tissue samples, sewage samples, and other sources long before the Wuhan outbreak indicates an attempt to lessen the effect of the virus in the ‘home countries’ by surreptitiously seeding a very low-lethality, weak Covid-19 virus among the peoples of the EU and the USA, which may have actually worked somewhat in that regard, as there were reports of people with the Covid antibodies long before the current pandemic started.

    But what I find MOST important is that the “China Did It!” refrain of a lab-made bug escaping from Wuhan suddenly exploded on the Western MSM scene IMMEDIATELY after China ‘named the Jew’ as being the source of the impasse at the UNSC on producing a joint, unanimous statement calling Israel to task in the most recent Gaza slaughter act. China actually openly and unambiguously ‘questioned’ whether Jewish money and power control the USA’s ME foreign policy, and whether Jewish control of American finance (and media) is where they get the ‘juice’ to make the US do its bidding and use its military to effectuate the Oded Yinon Plan, regardless of cost of blood and treasure to us. (The MIC, of course, laps it up and is a big, big supporter.)

    Thus, I believe we are in a very dangerous stage in the “Jewish elites vs. China” battle that possibly threatens the survival of all of us, as we are presently entering ‘Samson Option’ territory, i.e., Jewish elite power being lost means everybody else must also lose. To psychotic Jewish supremacist elites, it’s all or nothing.

    Again, China did the unthinkable (to Western politicians, at least) when it was chairing the UNSC during the (annual) Gaza slaughter last month and named the Jew as the source of the problems in Palestine and the ME in general, via their financial (and blackmail) control over the US Congress and policy makers. But far more critical is that these words were an open statement to the Jewish supremacist interests who truly run things: “We know who you are, we know what you’re doing and how you do it, and if you think for even a nanosecond we’ll allow you to do that to us, you’re dreaming.”

    And with just a few words of truth ‘that must never be spoken’, China now finds itself in what appears to be a death spiral with the absolute apex of the Jewish elites of the world. Only China stands in their way at present. And China knows it.

    China is the new “Hitler”.

  29. Ron Unz says:
    @Rashkae

    Iran and China are only separated by Pakistan. Iran’s first cases were reported Feb 19th in the now deleted article in the NY Times: https://archive.is/CuAQZ Whereas Wikipedia has Russia as having it’s first 2 cases Jan 31st: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Russia

    The outbreaks were entirely different. The two early cases in Siberia were of Chinese who had traveled there, while the massive outbreak that hit Iran’s political elites had no apparent connection to China or Chinese whatsoever. And while I perhaps was rhetorical in describing Qom as “on the other side of the world,” Wuhan and the Holy City of Qom are over 3,600 miles apart, a pretty long distance for an accidental lab-leak to jump. I’ll quote a couple of paragraphs from my original April 2020 article:

    As the coronavirus gradually began to spread beyond China’s own borders, another development occurred that greatly multiplied my suspicions. Most of these early cases had occurred exactly where one might expect, among the East Asian countries bordering China. But by late February Iran had become the second epicenter of the global outbreak. Even more surprisingly, its political elites had been especially hard-hit, with a full 10% of the entire Iranian parliament soon infected and at least a dozen of its officials and politicians dying of the disease, including some who were quite senior. Indeed, Neocon activists on Twitter began gleefully noting that their hatred Iranian enemies were now dropping like flies.

    Let us consider the implications of these facts. Across the entire world the only political elites that have yet suffered any significant human losses have been those of Iran, and they died at a very early stage, before significant outbreaks had even occurred almost anywhere else in the world outside China. Thus, we have America assassinating Iran’s top military commander on Jan. 2nd and then just a few weeks later large portions of the Iranian ruling elites became infected by a mysterious and deadly new virus, with many of them soon dying as a consequence. Could any rational individual possibly regard this as a mere coincidence?

    • Agree: Tdstype2, Kevin Barrett
    • Thanks: Robin Hood
    • Replies: @mcohen
    , @chrimony
  30. Chris Moore says: • Website
    @sonofman

    Zionists have power in America only because Democrat and Republican politicians of still the majority European-Americans allow them to have power

    A corrupt cabal, led
    by Judeofascists, some of them of mixed European origin, some of them of Semitic origin, but who have always been insular, hostile “elite” outsiders, exerts its power over both parties, including the Dem multicult, including Biden, including Kamala Harris…

    The Judeofascists aren’t a White or European problem any more than Jewry is White or European; they’re a Judeofascist problem.

    The problem is that President Trump has to fight establishment politicians from both parties who have for decades used fraudulent electronic voting to get elected

    The problem is that Trump is mobbed up with Judeofascists, too.

    But at the end of the day, the crux of the problem is Judeofascists and their treason against other nations.

    • Agree: Nancy
  31. @Ron Unz

    The choice to ruin an economy really provides another motive in, say, late Feb/early Mar 2020 with an incumbent who survived Russian collusion allegations and an impeachment hearing just 3.5 weeks prior, doesn’t it?

    Alas, DJT should’ve remembered his inner “Animal House”: “You fucked up, you trusted us.” Birx and Fauci clearly did not have his (or their country’s) best interests at heart.

    • Replies: @Peripatetic Itch
    , @TheMoon
  32. Am inclined to think USA & China deep states in fact did do this together, with the ability to denounce each other a ‘feature’ of the scam, giving each other ‘top enemy’ utility, their different approaches a function of internal frameworks and capacities

    [MORE]

    And increasingly wonder if the covid origin, Wuhan lab etc discussions, are a distraction from the possibility that the bigger bio-weapon here, is the gamut of ‘covid vaccines’, whose deadly effects will play out over the next several years, the ‘vaccines’ themselves now generating the ‘covid variants’, with vax-caused deaths able to be blamed on ‘covid’

    Aside from the 13,000-plus vaccine dead and 1.35 million vaccine-side-effects injury cases logged in the major global databases so far – We have the increasing amount of material from various medical professionals, such as Nobel Prize winner Luc Montagnier, on how, e.g., the spike protein mRNA is a massive health and life destroyer, with likely escalating death and injury tolls in years ahead, and a lot of post-vax pregnancy miscarriages one sign of the seeming vax role in creating mass infertility … 15% of the world dead by 2030, and much of the rest unable to have children?

    • Troll: Harold Smith
    • Replies: @Peripatetic Itch
  33. Charlie says:
    @Anonymous

    When you can’t attack the facts… ad hominem.

    • Agree: Iris
  34. So the virus probably came from a lab.

    This is not “probable”, it is a virtual slam-dunk. Way too many eminent scientists have drawn this conclusion for it to be dismissed. Besides, the American government holds a patent for the “spike protein” – can the implications be any more obvious?

    But the question now becomes “which lab?”…

    Repeat – the American government holds a patent for the “spike protein”. Slam-dunk.

    [MORE]

    But just for completeness:

    1. The USA runs a global complex of several hundred bioweapons labs, a large proportion of which surrounds Russia and China. If you want a nasty man-made virus to release on the world, who you gonna call?

    2. Japanese and Taiwanese university boffins independently came to the conclusion that Corona Chan originated in North America.

    3. Remember all those mysterious cases of “vaping illness” across America in 2019, months before any public knowledge of Corona Chan?

    4. And Israel TV did indeed disclose American intelligence briefings of a dangerous viral outbreak in Wuhan, again months before the fact.

    5. And let’s not forget the Gates-sponsored pandemic exercise “Event 201” which so accurately presaged Corona Chan and the global policy response, once again months before the fact.

    So Corona Chan is an American product. Let’s just accept that and move on.

    Meanwhile, Ron Unz’ Corona Chan investigation, while incredibly insightful around the question of origin, unfortunately seems to be trapped in a temporal rut, unable to make the connection with subsequent global developments.

    There’s a big fat “spike protein” flavoured elephant in the room – namely that what started out as an apparent American man-made virus attack on China (and Iran) has now most emphatically morphed into a global depopulation campaign using eugenic gene therapy bioweapons disguised as “vaccines” to sterilise, injure and kill as many people as possible.

    A depopulation campaign championed by the likes of creepy Bill Gates and Uncle Klaus Schwab under the cover of the World Economic Forum and the oh-so-benevolent Gates Foundation. All players with clear advance knowledge of Corona Chan as signaled by “Event 201”, and with ready-made “spike protein” gene therapy bioweapons sitting on the shelf just waiting for deployment. Players with unprecedented influence over the governments, medical institutions and media organs of just about every Western nation on the planet, to the extent that all these countries are now willingly participating in crimes against humanity against their own people. Surprisingly, Israel has been at the forefront of leading their own people like lambs to the slaughter.

    Mr.Unz hit the ground running, but I fear he’s dropped the ball on this one.

    How is it that the Corona Chan attack on China has so quickly been transformed into the global attack on Western civilisation embodied in the “vaccination” campaign and the march in lockstep toward the “Build Back Better” Great Reset now being universally embraced by the Western elite?

  35. @Mustapha Mond

    Shit!

    I forgot to edit the first line before posting, as “equation” was the wrong word, and I wanted to change the opening to:

    “It has come down to this: Jewish elites vs. China”.

    Totally forgot to make the change and posted. Complete brain flatus. Just remembered it.

    (Goddammit, I hate this getting old shit ……)

    But about the ‘jewish elites’ targeting China, well, here’s yet another example:

    https://www.sott.net/article/454191-Jon-Stewart-tosses-media-grenade-Hijacks-Colbert-Show-with-lab-leak-rant-liberal-Twitter-melts-down

    This won’t end soon, or well.

    • LOL: InnerCynic
  36. Unz says:

    “Trump’s lackadaisical response once Covid began leaking back into the U.S. hardly suggests that he initially realized it might be a dangerous bioweapon, so he seems to have been entirely ignorant of the facts.”

    This seems to me an entirely plausible scenario. Now let us think back to the infamous press conference when Trump introduced Pompeo as the “Secretary of State, the Secretary of the Deep State.” Despite the chuckles and embarrassment, the president may not have been joking. Then, during his speech, when Pompeo refers to the Covid lockdown protocols–quite curiously, as many observed–as a “live drill,” as if this were some kind of military exercise, Trump says under his breath, but audibly, and with some seemingly sincere chagrin, “You should’ve told me.”

    In a sane world whose understanding of reality is based on some empirical consideration of what actually happens in real time, the scenario described above would be deemed extremely significant, indeed historic. Instead it was dismissed as more obnoxious clownery from the Trumpster.

    In the unlikely event that the Covid crisis were confirmed to be a purposeful seeding of an American bioweapon, this moment in Trump’s presidency would become one element in the evidentiary dossier. Considering, however, how deep the hidden corruption goes in all countries associated with the US–who knows, for example, how much dirt they have on notorious cokehead and gay party animal Macron of France?–it is unlikely that any major head of state would let this story get so far out of hand. Just look at 9/11. Mountains of irrefutable evidence have done little to shake belief in the lie, at least amongst the professional classes of the West.

    It would seem that our only hope for clarity on the Covid as bioweapon question lies with the scientists. Most are bought, but not all.

    • Thanks: Iris, Schuetze, Mark Hunter
    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @utu
    , @ThreeCranes
  37. If rogue agents of the Deep State could get a B-52 airborne carrying live nuclear weapons taken from supposedly carefully guarded storage for a never disclosed purpose (though the B-52 was thank goodness forced to turn back) then the same or similar rogue agents could certainly surreptitiously introduce a lethal virus to a target population. Apparently blowback was not considered and an own goal resulted.

    • Agree: nosquat loquat
  38. Ron Unz says:
    @nosquat loquat

    Now let us think back to the infamous press conference when Trump introduced Pompeo as the “Secretary of State, the Secretary of the Deep State.”…when Pompeo refers to the Covid lockdown protocols–quite curiously, as many observed–as a “live drill,” as if this were some kind of military exercise, Trump says under his breath, but audibly, and with some seemingly sincere chagrin, “You should’ve told me.”

    I’d completely forgotten that incident, partly because I didn’t watch the press conference and anyway never paid much attention to what Trump was saying.

    But since Pompeo is probably the leading suspect behind the biowarfare attack, it raises an interesting possibility. As Trump disregarded the increasing spread of Covid, maybe that was when Pompeo finally decided to inform him it was a (Chinese) bioweapon, and represented a major danger to American society.

    And when I tried to locate an account of the incident using //”Secretary of the deep state” pompeo trump// on Google, absolutely nothing came up. But when I tried the same search string on Bing, a vast number of articles appeared. Interesting…

  39. @Chris Moore

    The quick appearance of covid in Iran, obviously planted at locations to disproportionatly infect the politicians, speaks for itself. It’s a smoking gun.

    Ron’s case is not weakened by the fact that China and Iran share boundaries with India and Pakistan, are relatively close to each other.

    He was careless on that point, but it makes no difference.

    • Agree: Joe Levantine
    • Thanks: GMC
  40. IvyMike says:

    I don’t know nuthin, but why in the wide wide world of sports would you mount a bio attack on a major hub of international travel using a highly contagious respiratory virus? Come on, Don Ron, do some more research and let us know why we targeted everybody and ourselves too? Why not a bug spread by fleas, flies, poor sanitation or sex?
    Yours is a typical conspiracy theory in that you’re finding more facts to support it than the truth would ever have.

    • Disagree: Mark Hunter
    • Replies: @Mark Hunter
  41. @Ron Unz

    Let’s take this to it’s logical conclusion. Would the ‘secretary of the deep state’ be a supporter of DJT’s re-election bid?

    If Pompeo told him it was a bioweapon, perhaps this is why he decided to listen to the (awful) advice of Birx and Fauci – shutting down the country for two weeks, submarining his strong economy, and destroying his re-election chances* in late March.

    What if it was not bioweapon, but, ultimately, the flu (+) except for olds and fats, and there was a concerted effort on/about 25-27 Feb by TPTB to hype the ‘crisis’ to depose him and engineer the great reset while enriching big pharma? The RT-PCR case count bs, the intentional killing of olds by (D) governors, the de-platforming of anyone who suggested treatments vs. use of vaccines – it all fits with the deep state conspiring w/ Davos men to create the world they always longed to. Was it what they set out to do when they tried to f**k Iran and China? I am unsure. But it sure seems as if Mike Pompeo is the one of the key links here to answering that question.

    **Of course it was rigged. Just another benefit of the ‘crisis’ was the changes in the voting laws in swing states. Silly wabbits.

  42. JasonT says:
    @RichardTheThird

    Will the rod of iron be a microwave cell tower? Revelation 2:27 and 12:5 and 19:15

  43. utu says:
    @nosquat loquat

    There is nothing to Pompeo’s ‘It’s A Live Exercise’. And Trump’s ‘should’ve let us know’ refers to China. It fits the context. China did not tell us. This is not about retribution but China was first to know.

    • Agree: Brás Cubas
    • Disagree: Schuetze
  44. This discussion seems both premature and tendentious.

    Premature because the WHO has only inspected one country (which, on current evidence, appears the least likely source of the outbreak).

    Tendentious because 99% of researchers in the relevant field have insisted from the beginning (and are more in agreement now) that a lab origin is unlikely.

    Why not wait until the WHO completes its inspections and evolutionary virologists publicly thrash things out?

  45. @nosquat loquat

    Speaking of press conferences. Is Biden their first human experimental subject of any import whose brain is functioning in synch (okay, it’s just a prototype at this stage) with a computer? The odd pauses as if he’s listening to instructions from a devise planted in his ear or brain, the word jumble as his former thought is cancelled out by new instructions and his mind wrestles with trying to integrate the two and finally, the throwing his metaphorical mental arms in the air and saying “Screw it, I just can’t master this new system. My old brain can’t be taught new tricks”?

    Is this part of the Great Reset? A computer run politician?

    • Replies: @InnerCynic
    , @TKK
  46. Uncle Scam “offshored” American industry to the detriment of domestic labor and he likewise offshores the development of pathogens or the initiation of hostilities…. all to the further detriment of said populace. He is anything but lazy when it comes to causing misery.

  47. @ThreeCranes

    Its an “ear” which presenters use all of the time. Hes simply not good at using it because he’s in cognitive decline. Someone lucid and trained in its use would fool you. Joe? Fuggedaboudit!

  48. The more people chatter about “bioweapons,” the more people tell themselves that the “pandemic” is real.

    The more people tell themselves that the “pandemic” is real, the more people are eager to submit to mandatory vaxxing, and the stripping away of civil liberties.

    In this way people serve ZOG, which demands that everyone get endlessly vaxxed.

    • Disagree: Mark Hunter
    • Replies: @idrankwhat
  49. US-funded laboratories have created, modified and stockpiled all manner of toxic agents including… Q-fever

    Currently sweeping the nation!

  50. @Godfree Roberts

    Argument from consensus has lost some of its allure in the latter day.

    • Replies: @Realist
  51. @Godfree Roberts

    Why not wait until the WHO completes its inspections and evolutionary virologists publicly thrash things out?

    The most important evidence is unlikely to be revealed to us civilians. We are trying to infer what is going on from what we can see. There are a lot of people who have seen quite enough already.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  52. gatobart says:

    I have one problem with this “America injected China with the coronavirus” narrative, so to speak. And the problem comes from a practicable indisputable fact, a piece of news coming out of Spain that would exculpate China, if not totally, at least of being at the origin of the pandemic:

    “Coronavirus traces found in March 2019 sewage sample, Spanish study shows
    By Nathan Allen, Inti Landauro
    JUNE 26, 2020

    MADRID (Reuters) – Spanish virologists have found traces of the novel coronavirus in a sample of Barcelona waste water collected in March 2019, nine months before the COVID-19 disease was identified in China, the University of Barcelona said on Friday”

    What this piece of news is telling us practically absolves China of any important role in the breakout, specially when considering that Spain is a close NATO ally of the U.S. so it could hardly be accused of manufacturing these news to get the burden of suspicion off China’s back. If we believe what Spanish scientists tell us then COVID19 was already loose and running in the Western world almost a year before the Wuhan outbreak, so all the rest loses relevance in this perspective.

    • Replies: @Mark Hunter
  53. @Mustapha Mond

    Yes, Mustapha, it has come down to the Jews versus the Chinese.

    I remember almost 20 years ago, the Jews were busy ‘infiltrating’ India. Well, I didn’t know they were ‘infiltrating’ at the time. I didn’t understand what they were doing there. But it turns out it was to turn India against Russia (and into a US vassal state). So now all that’s left is China.

    The End Game is here. God help us!

    • Agree: Mustapha Mond
    • Replies: @gatobart
    , @Mustapha Mond
  54. I can well believe that this is a lab release by the US. My main criticism is that the virus is not as lethal as is being made out. Its main purpose now is to justify injecting millions of people with genetic instructions that get their bodies to reproduce the really dangerous part of the infection, namely the spike protein.

    One piece of evidence seldom discussed – and which lends credence to Mr Unz’s hypothesis – is the mysterious so-called “vaping illness” which hit the US in the summer of 219. It primarily hit care homes and a lot of these were clustered around Fort Deitrick, which was partially closed by the CDC in July of that year for health and safety breaches.

  55. @Godfree Roberts

    The WHO specified that any human death is from Covid19 unless a different cause is proved.

    99% of researchers are still suppressing the information that Ivermectin cures and even prevents (prophylactic) Covid19 symptoms when it’s worked miracles in the few independent countries and regions that have made it the norm.

    And when decades of usage have shown its side effects are as harmless as those of aspirin and it costs about the same, could be sold in supermarkets.

  56. Kiwi Pom says:

    The pilot implementation ????

    Outbreak of Respiratory Illness at a Long-Term Care Facility USA Jul 2019

    https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/health/alerts/outbreak-of-respiratory-illness-at-long-term-care-facility

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2019/07/17/third-person-has-died-after-respiratory-illness-outbreak-greenspring-village-fairfax-officials-say/

    Another Respiratory Outbreak Found At Burke Retirement Community USA Jul 2019

    “These types of outbreaks aren’t uncommon, but they usually happen in winter or flu season rather than summer.”

    https://patch.com/virginia/burke/another-respiratory-outbreak-found-burke-retirement-community

    • Thanks: thotmonger
  57. Anonymous[538] • Disclaimer says:

    The possibility of a US-Wuhan release by some agent of the US may not go away. The question of who in China would work with the US to stage a release should be investigated. Certainly not everyone loves the CCP, do you think? In an age as hostile as this one has become to the legitimacy of national identity perhaps using the labels Chinese and American inhibits one’s analysis of the problem.

    Perhaps an issue to consider is the nature of the Chinese response. Lockdowns and masks are now criticized in the US as an ineffective response to virus spread. The whole approach violates much standard practice in epidemiology prior to the appearance of Covid 19.

    It has been argued that the approach originated in the US from the work of some computer modeling expert over a decade ago with no medical training and was eventually implemented against medical opinion by political and bureaucratic types who wanted a fast and visible response. If so how did these dubious procedures used by the US become the rapid first choice response in China? Did they really work in China or did the virus go away for some other reason?

    Perhaps there was some sort of cross fertilization on how to respond to a pandemic? What other cross interaction may have occurred?

    • Troll: Harold Smith
  58. Renoman says:

    Ron’s NOT insane! He is right over the target, that’s why he’s being trolled. Go Ron!

  59. GMC says:

    It’s just not one Lab , there had to be many labs or spreaders , inorder to go from China to Iran to Europe to the South Pacific and the operation is ongoing , as it’s Summertime and we see another strain of it. And that doesn’t fit in with a normal virus. They probably spread it, by putting the virus on American dollars and let the banks around the world – spread the Love – – lololol lol. Until Russia , China , Iran and the others call out the US bioweapons labs – all together at once – forget about any justice.

    • Replies: @Alfred
  60. SafeNow says:

    Intertwined with negligent release vs. deliberate release is this issue: The U.S. involvement, or lack thereof, in implementing safety precautions at the Wuhan lab. The U.S. was funding the most dangerous project in the history of the world. It overwhelmingly stands to reason that the U.S. would insist, tactfully and diplomatically (not Blinken-style), to likewise partner in, and lavishly fund, extraordinary safety measures. If the U.S. indeed did so, there would not have been a leak. Therefore, the source of the pandemic must have been a bio-warfare attack. Contrariwise, if the U.S. inexplicably did NOT share its safety competencies and funding, why the heck not? I have not seen anyone in the media raise the above issue. If I have missed it, please tell me. Maybe Fauci hid lab-leak not because he was conducting GofF, but because of malfeasance on safety.

    The logical bottom line is that under any of the three possible scenarios, the U.S. caused the pandemic: (1) By completely failing to partner in extraordinary safety measures; (2) By doing safety-partnering, but in an incompetent or cavalier manner; or (3) Neither of the above is relevant — it was a biowarfare attack outside the lab. (perhaps replica asthma inhalers, containing hidden virus compartments?)

    Yes, to a hammer everything is a nail, and to SafeNow everything is a safety discussion, but I think no debate involving an unsafety-caused leak is complete without this.

  61. No matter how many times you repeat it it’s still a weak scenario.
    And Iran is far from being on the other side of the world from China – indeed it is slap bang in the way of the Belt and Road Initiative (the “new” Silk Road) so I am sure it is swarming with Chinese people all the time.

  62. @ThreeCranes

    Exactly, the improbable Unz theory doesn’t explain how the supposed US virus seeders got it from Wuhan to Iran – it would still need to be carried there by infected Wuhanians in the first place.

  63. Alfred says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Tendentious because 99% of researchers in the relevant field have insisted from the beginning (and are more in agreement now) that a lab origin is unlikely.

    What do you think is going to happen when it is determined that it did come from a lab? There will be huge international pressure to shut down all such laboratories – and these alleged 99% will be left to find some other employment. 🙂

    Here is a man who is not subject to such pressures. He is very much out of favour with envious scientists in his country. He did get a Nobel Prize for discovering HIV. This is what he had to say early last year.

    “Montagnier argued that the Coronavirus disease 2019 was man-made in a laboratory and that it might have been the result of an attempt to create a vaccine for HIV/AIDS. His allegation came after the United States had launched a probe into whether the virus came from a laboratory. According to Montagnier, the “presence of elements of HIV and germ of malaria in the genome of coronavirus is highly suspect and the characteristics of the virus could not have arisen naturally.” However this was described as “a conspiracy vision that does not relate to the real science” by Jean-Francois Delfraissy, an immunologist and head of the scientific council that advises the French government on the COVID-19 pandemic.”


    • Agree: EoinW
  64. Alfred says:
    @Anonymous

    Mr Unz is highly intelligent. Much smarter than I am. However, he does have an agenda. I am gradually coming to recognise it. Helping people avoid falling ill is not on his agenda.

    If he is insane, then so are 100% of our putative elites.

    • Replies: @DaveE
    , @PetrOldSack
  65. cranc says:

    This all just gets stranger and stranger.
    The bioweapon economic attack theory, despite its reliance on the interchangeability of speculation and statements of fact, does make some sense, but only if we ignore a whole raft of things that have gone on since Covid appeared.
    Mike Whitney has written about many of these things, whereas Ron Unz has reliably ignored and refused admission to them, so it is bizarre to the extreme that this soft ball ‘interview’ could also avoid so much that calls out for accountability.
    So, once more for old times sake, we have:
    the PCR test controversy, the blurring of cases/deaths from/ deaths with, the wildly pessimistic and unaccountable modelling controversies, the fake videos of street deaths, the mass propaganda regime, the emergency hospitals that were not used, the empty regular hospitals that were incentivised to stay empty, the dancing nurses, the blatant misrepresentation of lethality by public health officials, the censorship crack down, the politicisation and commercialisation of science, the suppressed treatments with cheap established medicines, the mask mandates and their effect upon viral transmission and human psychology, the coercion-leading-to-enforcement of experimental vaccine technology, the Fourth Industrial Revolution, The Great Reset, the great bailout, the huge transfer of wealth, the elitist vision of transhumanism, the Lockstep Paper, Event 501, Cyber Polygon, China’s rise and America’s demise.
    And so much more.

    Kind of think ‘gay troll’ nailed it at the top of the comments to be honest.

    • Agree: gay troll, Stonehands
    • Replies: @Dystopian
    , @Antiwar7
  66. Dumbo says:

    Nah.

    If it was created anywhere, it was created in Israel. To wipe out Palestinians and other dirty Arabs. But, the virus escaped the lab, and ended up first in Iran, then in China (it jumped Pakistan, because it could not withstand the smell of curry). By the time it reached Europe, however, it had mutated to a more benevolent form, similar to a bad flu, but the Globalist “never let a crisis go to waste” Masters who were waiting for years for a “pandemic” to impose controls and economic subjugation, decreed lockdowns all over, to make the proles poor and become even richer.

    Or, perhaps…. Since plans for a reaction against a global pandemic following almost exactly the same script that was later put in practice have been detailedly written years ago by several (John Hopkins Institute, WEF, Bill & Manlinda, etc)… perhaps we can talk of a “plandemic”, with the intention to advance the same things that they wanted to advance anyway – digital cash, digital life, mandatory vaccines every year, vaccine passports, tracking apps, “merging of personal, virtual and genetic information” (Schwab). And the “lab leak” or “bioweapon” angle is just another distraction.

  67. GeeBee says: • Website
    @Mustapha Mond

    China is the new “Hitler”

    Some of us have been saying this on here for months, perhaps more than a year. And the statement is ironic in one way, because the vast majority of people reading it empirically will not merely fail to understand the true meaning of those five words, but they will think that their meaning is diametrically opposite to the reality. If I must spell it out for the benefit of those who might be puzzled, most will immediately think “Ah! Then we must oppose China at all costs”, whereas what they ought to be saying is “Go China! You can do it!”

    Anyhow, do you have a link to the Chinese statement at the UNSC meeting, as I cannot seem to find what you’re quoting? Thanks.

    • Replies: @Mustapha Mond
  68. @RichardTheThird

    Does not compute to the materialist mental slavez.

    Might as well start talking about purim, israel and war.

    The West has yet to wrap its head around the appearance of death, the accumulation of karma and the descent into hell. Too childish, ahistorical and fascinated by computer screens.

    • Agree: EoinW
    • Replies: @Polemos
  69. @RichardTheThird

    “… ruled from Jerusalem.”

    Starting to look like “ruled from Jerusalem through the UN”

  70. It so happens that the date of first cases of Covid-19 in this country has just been pushed back to around mid-December 2019.

    https://fortune-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/fortune.com/2020/12/01/december-2019-covid-arrival-us/amp/?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQHKAFQArABIA%3D%3D#aoh=16237816520751&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Ffortune.com%2F2020%2F12%2F01%2Fdecember-2019-covid-arrival-us%2F

    I wonder what that does to the whole story of where the disease really started. It could have started earlier given the average incubation period of 12 days.

  71. @Anonymous

    Mike Pompeo—is that you? If not—are you Peter Navarro? Mnuchen?? Diamond Dallas Page ???Dick Cheney???? Donnie Trump ????? Blinken ??????

  72. mex-e-can says:

    This was reported on a year ago or more, bio-weapon attack by usa gone wrong, the spooks have been messing things up for decades, it has all been documented. Jounalists don’t seem to do any research or read relevant information. Also there is another lab in Wuhan operated by pirbright. Does the name serco mean anything to anyone?

  73. The primary result of the Great DemPanic is turning out to be a substantially heightened state of enmity between the US and China. War is in the interest of neither, yet here we are. Likewise with the US-Russia tensions. War is in the interest of neither, yet the tensions continue to increase. In both cases, it is the US which supplies the provocations.

    It’s almost as if the “rogue element” within the US government isn’t so much rogue as it is in complete control of the entire apparatus–to include the media, big tech, the educational system, the judicial system, and the financial system–as if the “rogue element” is actually the intelligence service of a foreign nation with a history of warmongering and false flag events operating at will and with impunity through our own intelligence services–as if the “rogue element” were motivated by a pathological imperative to rule the world by way of setting all rival sources of power at each other in mutually assured destruction.

    • Agree: Iris, anonym25, gay troll
  74. anon999 says:

    What makes Mr. Unz’s suggestions unlikely is the presumed risk calculation by the alleged perpetrators; who are sociopathic, maybe, but not stupid.

    There is a profound lack of accuracy and precision in the delivery of chemical and biological agents.

    Therefore, it just doesn’t seem plausible that any rational individual would go forward with such a plan knowing the risks of unintended consequences. And there was obviously no contingency plan in place.

    Furthermore, if there was any substance behind these claims of an intentional biological attack, wouldn’t the Chinese be exploiting this for its propaganda value? The ramifications are too big to dismiss the silence over these allegations as just quiet Chinese satisfaction over the United States falling victim to its own machinations.

    Complicating things further is the research relationship between China and the US.

    The Chinese have been too silent on this matter. Assuming these allegations are authentic, then they have all the resources necessary to turn this against the US.

    But they are not.

    • Agree: Dnought
  75. Dave C. says:

    I respectfully disagree with Mr. Unz’s theory of a Covid-19 virus leak or intentional release from a U.S. laboratory. His theory ignores the science and the priciple of Occam’s Razor – the simplest of competing theories is preferred to the more complex.

    Facts:

    1. The Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) had been studying bat viruses similar to Covid-19 for many years and publishing papers on the topic in widely-available scientific journals, including information on controversial “gain of function” research related to making these viruses more virulent – supposedly in order to produce information on developing vaccines for viruses. (Or as a smokescreen to use such viruses as bioweapons.) Through the intermediary grantee EcoHealth Alliance (run by Peter Daszak ) United States funds were given to the WIV for virus research. Since these funds were obviously fungible, it is likely they also went to virus gain of function research. (Senator Rand Paul has accused Dr. Anthony Fauci of lying about this before Congress.) Peter Daszak attempted to cover all this up by submitting a false article denying the possibility of a Wuhan Lab leak to the medical journal The Lancet, which was exposed and then withdrawn by the journal as completely bogus.

    [MORE]

    2. The Covid-19 (SARS-CoV-2) virus has been thoroughly analyzed over the past year by hundreds of scientists around the world, with many scientific papers published. Even in the early statges, it was apparent that this appeared to be a mutated or modified bat virus similar to those being studied at the laboratory. This was denied by pro-China leftist scentists and ignored by the leftist media.

    3. While claiming transparency, Communist Chinese scientists withheld critical infomation on the Covid-19 virus, including genetic information that would have clearly exposed a laboratory modification from a bat virus – including a genome sequence that is highly improbable in nature, but could have easily been “spliced” in the laboratory.

    4. Several scientists at the WIV, who where known publically for their work, either died from Covid-19 in the earliest stages of the outbreak or have simply “disappeared” from their formerly public positions.

    5. The Chinese Communist Party (CCP) initially did not restrict travel out of the Wuhan region when they knew that the virus was spreading like wildfire in that region. Contrary to Mr. Unz argument, the virus could have easily traveled to Iran from Wuhan. According to Wikipedia and numerous other on-line sources, Iran has visa-free travel for all Chinese citizens, and the two countries recently signed a 25-year cooperation agreement. So there must have been significant business, diplomatic, and military personnel travel going on betwee the two countries in late 2019 and early 2020. Also, Russia and Iran were participating in extensive war games with China in late 2019 and early 2020, another possible source for spread to both Iran and Russia.

    6. According to news reports, there are at least two Chinese defectors in the U.S., one public, one still under wraps with the Defense Intelligence Agency who have said that the Covid-19 likely escaped from the WIV. Over the past week, it has been widely reported that the DIA defector has given them extensive information about the WIV lab leak. It has also been reported that the DIA also just recently revealed the defector to the CIA and FBI, since they believe those two agencies are filled with leakers and possibly also Chinese spies.

    7. No intermediate animal host has been found that could have transferred the Covid-10 to humans (as has been the case with other similar viruses from Asia.) This is VERY important to indicate a lab leak.

    8. According to several news reports, previous visits by international scientists indicated that the WIV had inadequate safeguards for a Level-4 biocontainment laboratory.

    9. Over the past month, since Nicholas Wade’s article (below) the Wuhan Lab leak theory has finally gained traction, but former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has indicated in several recent interviews that the U.S. government already knew this last year, but for intelligence reasons this was not fully revealed. I would speculate the likely reason for this is that that they suspected (but could not yet prove) that the “leak” may have been INTENTIONAL, as a Chinese military attack (see Redstate article below on defector information). If proven at that time, the U.S. could have been considering a military response or serious international sanctions. Biden, of course will never do this, even if it is proven.

    I am sure OUR bioweapons laboratories had the virus FULLY analyzed last year and could easily tell that it was likely a laboratory-modified bat virus from the WIV – derived from one of the several bat viruses that the WIV had previously publically acknowledged studying for gain of function research. Our bioweapons labs (reportedly doing only defensive research to comply with treaties) have the most advanced equipment available in the world. Just as military technology, they are probably 20 years ahead of the private sector. (Remember the stealth fighters/bombers? – developed in the late 1970s). Even though there were some serious lab-leak theory articles last year predating Wade’s , the idiots in the leftist U.S. media obviously never investigated this because of their pro-China (and anti-Trump) bias.

    So, using Occam’s razor on all this and you come to one conclusion – Wuhan Institute of Virology lab leak.

    The origin of COVID: Did people or nature open Pandora’s box at Wuhan?
    https://thebulletin.org/2021/05/the-origin-of-covid-did-people-or-nature-open-pandoras-box-at-wuhan/

    The Lab-Leak Theory: Inside the Fight to Uncover COVID-19’s Origins
    https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/06/the-lab-leak-theory-inside-the-fight-to-uncover-covid-19s-origins

    Expert Virologist Claims ‘Scientific Evidence Points to the Conclusion That the Virus Was Developed in a Lab’
    https://redstate.com/scotthounsell/2021/06/09/expert-virologist-claims-scientific-evidence-points-to-the-conclusion-that-the-virus-was-developed-in-a-lab-n394006

    An unlikely genome sequence is evidence that COVID-19 leaked from a lab, two U.S. experts say
    https://nationalpost.com/news/world/unlikely-genome-sequencing-and-a-lack-of-genetic-diversity-provide-evidence-that-covid-19-originally-leaked-from-a-lab-according-to-two-experts-but-the-origins-of-the-virus-remain-unclear

    Wall Street Journal
    The Science Suggest a Wuhan Lab Leak
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-science-suggests-a-wuhan-lab-leak-11622995184

    EXCLUSIVE: Defector Provides Evidence That the Chinese Military Orchestrated the Creation of COVID-19 and Lab Leak
    https://redstate.com/jenvanlaar/2021/06/11/exclusive-defector-provides-evidence-that-the-chinese-military-orchestrated-the-creation-of-covid-19-and-lab-leak-n395384

    • Thanks: ivan
    • Replies: @anonym25
  76. @gay troll

    ” Gomez old chap —–Barcelona Spain is where this all started March 2019—-then came Italy September 2019 —again a 10 year old boy in Milan November 2019—France had some Covid counts in the autumn of 2019 and so did Belgium. The outbreak in Wuhan was not at the wet market but closer to where the Games were held but still some distance away,. NOW –these 3 —–elderly couple and middle age son reported December 27 and stated they had nothing to do with the Wet Market but were at a locale where furs are dressed —. USA and Denmark —-Denmark setup the spy network on Europe and more interestingly —Danes culled a huge population of mink and now have exhumed their corpses and cremated them —although locals complained of the sickening aroma when the deteriorating mink were uncovered. Again—“Something is Rotten in Denmark” old chap and those mink casualities —-were they deliberately infected or was it again Mother Nature ?? BMW Sherlock —Bats / Mink/ Wuhan ???” —-and I know John Watson is a plodding but persistent scholar.

    • Replies: @GMC
    , @frontier
    , @Ron Unz
  77. Anon[185] • Disclaimer says:

    The response of the Chinese to the outbreak was surprisingly extreme and martial. Recall, early on this seemed to be a typical, but strong, seasonal type of Flu. The amatuer videos posted on Social Media from mid-Jan to Mid-Feb coming from Wuhan showed a fully mobilized hard core Military style response. Anyone who followed these unedited videos could only conclude the Chinese treated the outbreak as a major attack. What would cause the Chinese to go into full on war mode ?

    Wildly speculative – but consider a Chinese cabinet meeting early in Januray; agenda item; a the outbreak of some flu in Wuhan. Imagine the Minister of Intelligence suggesting ‘This might be a low level bioweapon attack from Fort Detrick, etc.,etc.’ The Chinese response to the Flu outbreak makes complete sense in this scenario.

    BTW – These amatuer videos of Wuhan were all blocked/shutdown around Mid-February.

    • Replies: @Liborio Guaso
  78. Anonymous[102] • Disclaimer says:

    As a “bioweapon” COVID sucks ass. As a “restructuring society” weapon, well just look around you.

    What if there were two viruses and the sucky one was just the cover?

    • Agree: R2b
  79. Dave C. says:

    One correction:
    Peter Daszak’s letter (not article) in the The Lancet medical journal, denying the possibility of a Wuhan Lab leak, has been widely exposed as nonsense by other scientists, however the The Lancet has not formally “withdrawn” it, because it was just a letter (that Dasazak got 27 other scientists to sign), not a peer-reviewed medical paper.

    Links:
    How Facebook’s ‘independent fact checkers’ cited letter secretly organized by Wuhan lab funder Peter Daszak to ‘debunk’ leak theory and punish news outlets that explored it.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9655057/Facebook-fact-checkers-cited-Lancet-letter-Wuhan-lab-funder-Peter-Daszak-debunk-lab-leak.html

    Elite journals under scrutiny over role in Wuhan lab leak debate
    https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/elite-journals-under-scrutiny-over-role-wuhan-lab-leak-debate

  80. Assuming this theory’s viewpoint: China’s a big place. It was arrogant for the Deep State to start a plandemic from one location. Certainly there’s more than one biolab in all of Egg Roll Land to cast blame upon.

    BTW if the Illuminati wants to thin the herd, the astonishing plummet of natural testosterone and male fertility is the way. No one is sounding the alarm on these, either.

    https://www.healio.com/news/endocrinology/20120325/generational-decline-in-testosterone-levels-observed

  81. mcohen says:
    @Ron Unz

    Bitcoin and covid 19 were born under the same roof.they are strategic financial weapons.
    This fanciful post is merely a diversion.

    • Agree: R2b
    • Disagree: Gapeseed
  82. John Hagan says: • Website

    Speckled monster was the ancient name for smallpox.
    Fauci satire ….Lady Mary Wortley Montague was responsible for the introduction of variolation in England smallpox, which severely disfigured her beautiful face
    Charles Maitland royal license to perform a trial on six prisoners in Newgate on August 9, 1721
    Washington: all his soldiers were variolated before beginning new military operations
    survivors of smallpox became immune to the disease
    cure: twelve bottles of small beer every twenty-four hours

    • Replies: @orchardist
  83. Iris says:
    @ThreeCranes

    it would seem to be incumbent upon Ron to provide at least some plausible vector by which the Americans could have accomplished what he denies the Chinese as having any means or method of carrying out.

    There is no need to provide such obvious explanations.

    It would have been dead easy to transport and spray the virus from ordinary-looking medical devices, such as those commonly used by asthma-sufferers, or even from simple aerosol cans-like equipment.

    The delivery device could have been disguised as asthma inhaler, e-cigarette container, can of deodorant, can of cool water mist, and the list goes on.. Any of these objects could have been used in public, in high population-density hubs (the Huanan seafood market?) for maximum efficacy, without even being noticed or suspected by the surrounding public.

    Finally, Wuhan is indeed a very important commercial and academic centre, visited by people from countries all across the Global South.
    But this does not explain why the city of Qom, of all places, was hit almost simultaneously and with a similar virus strain than Wuhan, unless one argues that the largest contingent of foreign tourist to Wuhan is from Qom. A simple coincidence is hard to believe.

    • Replies: @Craig Nelsen
    , @ThreeCranes
  84. frankie p says:
    @Anonymous

    Ron Unz,

    Talk to THIS unbiased stranger and he will say that you are rational, based and meticulous, and the conclusions that you have reached are ENTIRELY plausible. You admit the lack of evidence when there is such a lack, but you similarly tie up a variety of loose ends that invariably point towards your conclusions.

    Also , you should have a button on your blog that says “unhinged Jewish neocon supporter of Israel.” Methinks such a button is relevant with this troll.

  85. @Max Payne

    Iran regularly has mysterious explosions and other marks of saboteurs operating freely in Iran. Mossad has penetrated deep into Iran, and I read something recently that quoted a high-ranking Israeli official bragging about how they knew everything about the Iranian nuclear weapon effort, who was working on what, the motives and methods of the individuals involved, and so on. Israel, I would say, is the likely source of the virus that hit Iran’s political elite. (But that’s ok, I’m sure some of them had chanted “Death to Israel” when they were in college, so murdering them is fine.)

    Also, I’ll bring it up again: there is the very odd incident of a Taiwanese television sports program doing a segment on the Wuhan military games, going on and on about how poorly the American team had done (the American team always does poorly–not that poorly, but poorly) and connecting the virus to team members. The program credited an Israeli blogger with giving them the story. That’s a very strange thing if you think about it. Why would an Israeli be feeding a story to a Chinese language media outlet that clearly was meant to raise Chinese suspicions of the US being the source of the virus? It only makes sense if the real point of the covid-19 event was to gin up tensions between the US and China. It wouldn’t be the first time Zion has been accused of “Let’s you and him fight.”

    There was also the very early announcement–like, the first week– by an Israeli company that they already had a vaccine. It was all over the news for six hours and 28 minutes then abruptly disappeared forever. Exactly as if a squirrel in a sprawling conspiracy had darted off in the wrong direction until suddenly yanked back into line by the squirrel herder.

    And, when the DoD denied the smoking-gun letter indicating the US military had knowledge of the outbreak before the Chinese government did, which, if true, would not fail to infuriate the Chinese, it was an Israeli newspaper that publicly verified the existence of the letter.

    My question is: Israel was way out in front on the vaccinations, but what were they being vaccinated with? Who would have access to that information and how would it be verified?

    • Agree: anonym25
    • Replies: @Iris
    , @anonym25
    , @JWalters
  86. gotmituns says:

    The Covid BioWeapon: Made in the USA, Aimed at China
    ———————————————————————
    BS – Covid was not made. It’s an illusion propped up by massive Media, Government, “Educational” collusion. The only thing made and kept up is the Hysteria of the mentally disoriented population.

    • Agree: Je Suis Omar Mateen
    • Replies: @Stonehands
  87. @mijj

    “A new analysis of blood samples from 24,000 Americans taken early last year is the latest and largest study to suggest that the new coronavirus popped up in the U.S. in December 2019 — weeks before cases were first recognized by health officials.” and this means –it was earlier than Wuhan—????

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  88. re: Covid is a bioweapon against China.

    By now it is my impression that Covid is in fact just one step in a geographically very large “Great Reset” project whose aims are:
    – “Population Control” which is a technical-sounding term for mass sterilisation and huge mass killings to reduce the world population by half and – of course – destroy the white populations.
    – Steal all the wealth created by the 99% and transfer it to the 1% (objective already partly achieved by lockdowns)
    – Make the 1% the overlords of the world and make the 99% their slaves.

    I think this is the real scenario unfolding now and the 1% have telegraphed their intentions with enough conferences by Bill Gates and others for years now. I also feel that the heavy insistence that the 1% are putting on vaccinations shows that the “jabs” are a very important tool for them – let’s see what this year’s autumn and winter bring as consequences.

  89. Smallpox blankets are so old school.

  90. John Wear says:

    Another possibility is that the SARS-CoV-2 virus does not exist.

    Dr. Andrew Kaufman, M.D. states that what is identified under the microscopes as the SARS-CoV-2 virus is actually identical to exosomes, which are structures that release toxins from cells. Such toxins can result from numerous sources such as flu shots having no relationship to the SARS-CoV-2 virus.

    Dr. Kaufman states that the SARS-CoV-2 virus has never been isolated according to Robert Koch’s four postulates. Koch’s postulates are:

    1. The microorganism must be found in abundance in all organisms suffering from the disease, but should not be found in healthy organisms.
    2. The microorganism must be isolated from a diseased organism and grown in pure culture.
    3. The cultured organism should cause disease when introduced into a healthy organism.
    4. The micro-organism must be re-isolated from the inoculated, diseased experimental host and identified as being identical to the original specific causative agent

    None of these four postulates has been performed by doctors or scientists to prove that the SARS-CoV-2 virus exists.

    The test used to detect the SARS-CoV-2 virus originated in 1983 with the invention of the polymerase chain reaction (PCR) by Kary Mullis. Real-time PCR, hereafter abbreviated as RT-PCR, is a common tool for detecting and quantifying expression profiles of selected genes. However, Mullis said that the RT-PCR test should not be used for testing infectious diseases. Thus, the RT-PCR test used to diagnose the SARS-CoV-2 virus has been described by its inventor as inappropriate for diagnosing viruses. Mullis died in August 2019, so unfortunately he is no longer around for interviews.

    • LOL: L.K
  91. Hans says:
    @RichardTheThird

    Here’s an oldie that people should know of: The Roots of Evil in Jerusalem – The Golden Report

    This report will shock and upset some; it is one I have put off for over 4 years. After struggling with it I have decided now is the time to write it. Knowing it could be misunderstood as anti-Semitic. God forbid that I a Jew should ever say or do anything that would be remotely considered as such, but I must admit this report does not come easy for me. The fact still remains that an evil force has been put into place in Jerusalem and has spread throughout Israel, in preparations for the end time and the seat of the anti-Christ. For if we are to believe that the anti-Christ is to have his seat on the Temple Mount, then we must come to grips with some truths not being preached today. One such truth is the foundation for such a move of the Devil must be underway even as we speak if this is to happen. Or we simply are not in the end days. This report will prove that such a move is underway and has been for quiet some time. It will be accepted by some and rejected by others, but that is the way it goes.

    In this report I will use many pictures showing the establishment of the Illuminati and establish proof that there has been a diabolical plot by those we refer to as the New World Order. Showing the architectural design of the New Israeli Supreme Court Building designed and paid for by the Rothchilds reflex the presence of Free Masonry and the Illuminati. I took all but one of the pictures you are about to see so I can assure that what you are seeing is real and in place.

    https://thegoldenreport.net/the-roots-of-evil-in-jerusalem/

  92. gatobart says:
    @RussianWannabe

    Innocent child. No one needs to be infiltrating India to get therm on all fours licking the backside of their “former” Anglo Saxon colonial masters and provoking Russia or China..! Or that of the money changers of Wall Street. They love doing it…! to India the saying “a slave loves his chains” applies to perfection. Mahatma Gandhi was a fraud, the greatest political fraud of the postwar period, as much as Nelson Mandela. There was never a real Indian independence, their much vaunted bloodless and peaceful independence was nothing but a travesty because they have never wanted to break the chains that tie them to the zombified Anglo Saxon empires.

  93. Remembering old times. They were the great-grandchildren of those who gave smallpox-contaminated blankets to the Reds to kill them and steal their land.

  94. Alfred says:
    @GMC

    It’s just not one Lab , there had to be many labs or spreaders , inorder to go from China to Iran to Europe to the South Pacific and the operation is ongoing …

    Absolutely correct.

    Back in 2001, in the UK, we had the BSE crisis and the Foot and Mouth crisis almost in tandem. A vast number of cows and sheep were slaughtered and incinerated. Famous herds of cattle that were the result of hundreds of years of breeding disappeared. Many farmers went bankrupt. Others committed suicide. You can guess who benefited. Now, they are even banning free-range chickens in the UK.

    In the case of Foot and Mouth, the governments pretended that some “animal rights” group had stolen a phial from a high-security area – Porton Down. BS. Impossible. Many cubic metres of infected fluid was required to spread this infection across thousands of farms. Obviously, it was the work of the government.


    Five million carcasses and counting (2001)

    When foot-and-mouth disease stopped the UK in its tracks

    For a serious explanation, try this link:

    Propaganda and the Media: Part 1 – Introduction

    It is pretty obvious that infections such as swine flu are being deliberately spread in China. Why should Covid-19 be any different?

    • Thanks: Schuetze
    • Replies: @Old and Grumpy
    , @GMC
  95. GMC says:
    @GomezAdddams

    Interesting scenario G A. To add to your observations, there is one unique symptom of this virus and of the 6 people that I know that got it, including myself, is that you lose your sence of smell and or taste. most people get the senses back , some don’t, some get 1/2 back, but the bottom line is – after getting struck with other colds, flu, sinus and respiratory infections, over my 70 yrs, I never had the senses go away like this. This symptom should be in the records of the people that first got this type virus prior to 2020- logically – lol.

    Another interesting virus was going around a year or two before this Corona one I believe. My wife in Russia and an old old friend in Chicago, who I stay in touch with, got this sinus infection and both of them lost their sense of smell . One of them lost total the smell sense and one lost about 1/2. A data base on these type of symptoms , sure would be interesting , but Good luck with that. Thanks.

  96. moi says:
    @Chris Moore

    The JOS (Jewish Only State) works closely with our spooks and the Deep State, which to me is the collective term for the powers centers that call the shots for the Dumbs/Repugs. In fact, the JOS and American Jews are the most powerful components of the Deep State. Recall how quickly our FBI dropped any investigation into the dancing Israelis and some 200 “art” students following 9/11. Of course, 9/11 itself was never really investigated–but fortunately they found the passport of one of the 19 evil ones (LOL)!!!

  97. EoinW says:
    @Mustapha Mond

    Love the name. Yes we are one step closer to Test Tube human beings!

    • Thanks: Mustapha Mond
  98. @Alfred

    Not just UK labs. A unknown lab from Exton, PA in the early 90’s offered to buy our “closed” herd of Guernsey cows to do mad cow disease experiments on. Supposedly for cures. That’s when I knew it wasn’t sheep brains causing the outbreak in Britain. Now here in PA we have deer with the disease. So yes things can escape, but our masters want us to eat bugs in pods. Who cares how many living things they kill to achieve that.

    • Thanks: Alfred
  99. You forgot the Italians got an European strain very bad. Romans and Persian dying… oh my. China is currently flying fighter jets over Taiwan and their economy has grown quite well. So if it was an operation of sorts against China, it failed miserably. I still think we need to consider the protein based vaccine as the actual potential weapon. If it is, the target was first world humanity. Particularly the western European based ones. Hmm… wonder who the winner is here? How many of you boomer haters gave your DNA and paid for a genetic analysis? Have no clue what the truth is. However if we go down the rabbit hole that China was not the perpetrator, there are more potential evil players out there.

  100. @sonofman

    Thanks. Back to reality. Restart from there. Covid has no use in se, as a medical phenomenon. It is a pretext to social re-engineering, and is a gods given for power circles to indulge into. A gold mine for would be influencers @media including [email protected], anywhere, politicians anywhere. The real enemy is the global surplus population, it needs to be culled(in the eyes of the thinking elites), and bio weapons, if showing efficiency and discretion are part of any power circle at hoc globally. They(bio-weapons) are not for now and, discretionary and efficient at once, not yet ready for center stage, as your comment suggests. As much as chemical agents were defined as nots(discretion). And how nuclear arms are mostly stuck(a latest test in Gaza was promising to break the confinement). Till then, await more initiatives propping up the reset(population control, their numbers, the numbers of the substrats, the race and class division control, class strata, the dynamics of strata(immigration et al.)) by the use of psy-ops.

  101. I can’t “buy” the rogue element of this story. The propaganda is too pervasive to be anything but a full-fledged bio-attack by the deep-state and the protection rackets (insurance, medicine, military, etc) they employ to enslave the masses. A Bio-Attack? Yes! A Rogue Element? NO!

    • Agree: GMC
    • Replies: @Mustapha Mond
    , @Ron Unz
  102. @sonofman

    My man, this sight is only for true Covid(tm) believers. Don’t insult the unz ass-kissers with the stone cold truth. This farce was brought to you by Global Oligarchy and their mass hysteria hoax in order to get rid of the wacky, vain retard Trump; or, rather to allow him to save face by declaring a national emergency, mail-in ballots and extended voting thereby generating maximum fraud and a changing of the figurehead.

  103. EoinW says:

    I’ve not wanted to accept it was a deliberate bioweapons release because if some people could do that then there was worse to come. Last summer I figured that if it was deliberate then Sweden would be targeted with a more deadly virus in order to punish the Swedes for proving that lockdowns/masks are useless. That didn’t happen. It wasn’t necessary as the media simply lied about Sweden – thus eliminating the Swedish success in their minds and the minds of the sheeple who trust them.

    At this point I would say it was a deliberate bioweapon attack. China & Iran are pretty convincing points that it was western oriented and on purpose. Which means my fear has been realized that a 2nd, more deadly, bioweapon has come next.

    This is how I piece together the process:

    1) deliberate release directed at America’s enemies.

    2) do nothing to prevent the virus from spreading to the West.

    Remember all leaders – except Trump – demanded that borders remain open even though they knew it was letting the virus in. It was part of their plan. Right on cue, the end of March, nearly every western nation did exactly the same thing: lockdowns. They were more than ready for this. Yes Sweden & Belarus didn’t stick with the plan but they were too small to matter. Trump also refused to impose a national lockdown. They dealt with him in November.

    We’re talking about the Davos elites here. They are just as incompetent as they are immoral. Thus it’s no surprise their plan initially failed. Covid 19 was a flop. It killed less than 1% and only killed people who would have died anyway(2020 death totals are right on average).

    They did save the situation nicely by creating a fake pandemic using endless lies and fearmongering. That set us up for Plan B – the second bioweapon attack.

    If you release a bioweapon into the environment and it fails to deliver the depopulation you desire then what do you do next? You inject your next bioweapon directly into a person’s body. Spike proteins from covid can be dealt with by healthy people. Spike proteins through a vaccine appear to have a greater chance of hijacking immune systems.

    This explains why the tradition of a minimum 10 years testing has been abandoned and authorities are calling 6 month tested mRNA vaccines safe. It explains why the vaccines were not stopped when 25-50 people had died. Instead governments push harder to get 100% vaccinated. Even targeting children now! Their bioweapon is working better than covid 19. Full steam ahead!

    Yes that’s all speculation but it does make sense. Perhaps not to a sane person, however those who rule us are lunatics. Offering free ice cream to 12 year olds to get vaccinated? They are truly insane. It is my hope that anyone who encourages or gives these vaccines to children will one day be swinging from the end of a rope.

    • Agree: Alfred
  104. @Anon

    And if the main objective was always Iran and China was just a distraction about the origin of the virus. Recall that Trump and his group were obsessed with the Persian nation and were looking for ways to attack it to please Israel. And if Soleimani was murdered in cold blood, the other is quite possible. This seems the most possible.

  105. @GeeBee

    Hello GeeBee

    Agree 100% with your observations.

    Happy to provide the link:

    https://apnews.com/article/middle-east-israel-race-and-ethnicity-anti-semitism-54fd7d8a6b42c6afcfdb3dc2b16f7e0e

    (I’ve linked this story I believe three times previously here on Unz in prior comments, so I got a wee bit lazy on this comment. Sorry.)

    Thanks for a nice reply.

  106. Did Mike Whitney conduct this interview as penitence so his anti-vax articles will return to the front page of the Unz Review?

  107. @RussianWannabe

    I wanted to add that PM Modi is a huge supporter of Israel, their tactics and their racist ideology (which most Hindutvas like Modi share, unfortunately, especially hatred of Islam and muslims.)

    Israel was the very first country PM Modi visited upon taking office, spending a number of days there hanging with Bibi, and totally ignoring the Palestinians, thumbing his nose and snubbing them 100%.

    Modi knows exactly what side his racist matzohs are buttered on, no doubt! He’s no dummy, that’s for sure…….

  108. Leo Den says:
    @gay troll

    “Iran did it, Iran did it.”
    “No wait…. Russia did it, Russia did it.”
    “No wait… China did it, China did it.”

    With Washington
    it’s NEVER the REAL Culprits.

    http://biblicisminstitute.wordpress.com/2020/03/07/the-dirty-secrets-behind-covid-19/

    • Replies: @Anon
  109. @Ron Unz

    Good work, Ron Unz. Given the flimsy, mostly media foundation of the “natural origin” school and the lack of any solid evidence for the competing, Neocon-favored Wuhan lab-leak explanation, your well reasoned conclusion that this was a misfired U.S. biowar shot across the bow of China and Iran ought to become state of the art in the great pandemic investigation.

    Yet all three theories perch precariously on the same blithe assumption of a WHO-declared pandemic, i.e.: The planet is now truly vexed by one and the same novel Covid-19 virus that is supposedly quite deadly. How deadly? You just quarreled with someone’s fatality statistic of 0.2%, saying:

    Actually, most of the evidence is that the Covid fatality rate is substantially higher than you claim, probably at least 0.5%.

    In terms of dead bodies, the order of magnitude separating those two numbers, not to mention the many other guesses and hearsay hysterically reported from, of course, super reliable authorities quoted by legacy media during the past 16 month, makes this approach a tad dubious. If Schroedinger’s cat is statistically dead, we’d like to view the carcass. Most of us seekers are left so far with little more than second-hand anecdotes of isolated personal health tragedies.

    Where I live in Europe, there simply was no pandemic in the frightful Corona year 2020, although there were frantic quasi-martial law restrictions on basic freedoms. According to the official annual tally of legal death certificates in this province of ~six million, fewer people died from any cause in 2020 compared with the average mortality for the preceeding nine years. For this we must reenact the medieval Black Death routine?

    I’m also seeing similar reports from other jurisdictions in the USA and UK, curiously discordant stastical information never investigated in corporate-government media. The existence of a pandemic in most of Africa and even in Russia is also hard to quantify. One might suspect that the deadly virus ran rampant mainly in the USA and its EU vassal where millions of were mezmerized by 24/7 media hype. If the purpose was to spead enough panic to justify shooting almost everyone up with untested vaccines, it succeeded. But that makes it just another dodgy public policy, not medical science.

    There’s no need to rehash the farce of the adjustable PCR tests or the coercion and incentives to blame as many hospital deaths as possible on the mysterious virus. Comment such as #18, sonofman, already covered it. We could discuss forever the origin of a supposed scourge that comes in waves and variants that momentarily strike the fancy of those experts with access to mainstream media. Could it be, as C.J. Hopkins repeatedly told us right here on UR, that the purpose of this bizarre drill is to herd us all into the dystopian Great Reset of society in which oligarchs rule and the rest of us are expendable serfs?

  110. @Iris

    “It would have been dead easy to transport and spray the virus from ordinary-looking medical devices, such as those commonly used by asthma-sufferers, or even from simple aerosol cans-like equipment.”

    Or just infect the US military team before they left for China. Someone said they train right next to Ft Detrick. And didn’t several team members get sick while they were there? And the objection that the US wouldn’t do that because they would bring the dempanic back with them is removed, if, in fact, this was a Mossad operation. It wouldn’t matter.

  111. @Ron Unz

    Actually, most of the evidence is that the Covid fatality rate is substantially higher than you claim, probably at least 0.5%.

    Source for this probable claim?

    • Thanks: Realist, St-Germain
  112. Realist says:
    @sonofman

    Zionists have power in America only because Democrat and Republican politicians of still the majority European-Americans allow them to have power.

    With this, I agree.

    The People and non-politician President Trump are fighting the stolen election. The problem is that President Trump has to fight establishment politicians from both parties who have for decades used fraudulent electronic voting to get elected.

    With this, I do not agree. Trump was complicit with the Deep State. His battle with the power elite was a poorly performed charade.

    • Replies: @sally
  113. utu says:

    Why Mike Whitney? If Ron Unz interrogated Mike Whitney about the bizarre ideas about Covid-19 that Mike Whitney kept spreading from the beginning of the pandemic that would be somewhat interesting and would help to undo damage Ron Unz’s caused for giving Mike Whitney platform to spread disinformation for over one year. By choosing Mike Whitney as a vehicle to popularize his own hypothesis of the origin of the pandemic is self defeating. Does Ron Unz want to be taken seriously or he puts his hypothesis on par with the nonsense that Mike Whitney spreads?

    • Agree: Johnny Rico
    • Replies: @Johnny Rico
    , @PetrOldSack
  114. @Chris Moore

    If the average American aids and abets ZOG by being a patriot, then yes he is right. If you celebrate the Fourth of July, you’re the problem.

    • Replies: @Boomthorkell
  115. Realist says:
    @Anonymous

    It’s possible that the US specifically planted the virus in Wuhan in order to blame the lab there for the leak.

    All the points in your comment are excellent and insightful. But it is more than possible…it is very likely.

  116. @Verymuchalive

    This is an interview.

    Interviews don’t generally come with references.

    If you want references, read any of Mr Unz’ previous articles on the subject.

  117. @Jimmy The Cop

    This is big, really big. It seems highly likely that it’s too big to be a small rogue group, especially in making sure the bug is cooked to perfection.

    And we all know folks in-the-know can keep secrets (think Manhattan Project, Operation Overlord, 9/11 false flag, etc.)

    As we sit here today, who knows what really happened? Maybe it was a small rogue group, but I doubt it based on how big this thing really is, and was from the start. Operation Warp Speed did not spring out of thin air.

    But large or small, the target was China and the world-wide blowback was clearly foreseeable (or the US military wouldn’t have been warning Israel and NAZO back in mid-November 2019 that a ‘cataclysmic disease outbreak’ was happening in Wuhan, would they?), so it seems reasonable to think that this is bigger than a small rogue group. And it has proven very, very profitable for the Big Boys. Too much sugar being spread around among the pigs at the very top too quickly. The whole situation stinks to high heaven…..

    Thanks for your reply.

    • Replies: @Donald A Thomson
  118. @John Hagan

    G-d, you surely do some nice work!! Bravo!! (your audio especially is so clean and clear)

    Thanks!

  119. Realist says:
    @Digital Samizdat

    Why would any country with an advanced military–the US, China or anyone else–go to the trouble of re-inventing the flu? It just doesn’t make any sense.

    This bioweapon was a tool…not meant to kill much of the population…but to control much of the population. It was an outstanding success.

  120. Anon[420] • Disclaimer says:
    @Leo Den

    Leo,

    To tell the truth I am so fed up with the constant finger pointing, blame shifting and story twists that I could give a shit about the what, when, where , why or who of this Hoaxvid. I think after one year plus the public would be weary of it all but apparently not. Everyday the MSM comes up with another article usually representing something along the lines of “10 things you did not know about Covid “, what the “experts” say.

    To maintain my sanity I have retreated into my own bubble. As long as neither I nor my loved ones dont have it I could care less. Enough is enough. Unfortunately the gullible public can never seem to get enough. They want bullshit and they get bullshit.

  121. @Iris

    Ron holds that it is implausible to believe that the virus was ferried from Wuhan to the leadership of the Iranian government via some go between. I argue that such a thing is not so unlikely given the trade missions China is sending everywhere in the region. Further, I ask him to explain how then, if the US military is the actual source of the virus, they were able to transmit it to the leading members of the Iranian parliament?

    You answer that someone walked about with a mister or one of those flower spray gag devises on the lapel of their suit but that begs the question. You have not accounted for how the American agent carrying the mister or asthma inhaler got within hailing distance of a meeting of the top members of the Iranian government.

    I suppose Ron could answer: “Easy, Cranes, a member of Iran’s military team would have been debriefed by ranking members of the Iranian government after he had returned home from his intelligence mission during which he posed as an athlete on the Iranian military team. U.S. intelligence had done its homework and knew precisely which members of Iran’s team were most likely to be used in such a role and targeted them for infection while in Wuhan.” Further, he would say, “We can’t have any actual record of such an encounter and so, I can’t prove to you that it happened in just that way, but it certainly isn’t implausible. In fact, it’s not only believable, it’s highly likely that such a debriefing took place. After all, the Iranians are as devious as we are and practice spying just as we do.”

    And I would reply, “Yes, and we took advantage of just that fact. Perhaps, as you say, our leaders (or a certain clique of them) were so driven by the prospect of inflicting suffering on the Iranian leadership and so caught up by their own hubris that they failed to anticipate (for the reasons you have previously stated regarding our ability to deal with the spread of a plague) that the virus would bounce back and hit us squarely between the eyes.” Or, perhaps, that clique is made up of people who didn’t care if the virus killed many Americans and destroyed our economy.

    • Replies: @Iris
    , @Nancy
  122. R2b says:

    From this on.
    Mike Whitney is lost to me.

  123. Antiwar7 says:
    @Ron Unz

    Also no results on DuckDuckGo.com. I thought they were an anti-Google?

  124. @dcthrowback

    The choice to ruin an economy really provides another motive in, say, late Feb/early Mar 2020 with an incumbent who survived Russian collusion allegations and an impeachment hearing just 3.5 weeks prior, doesn’t it?

    A most important point regarding that first impeachment was why Miss Nancy delayed sending the impeachment articles to the Senate for so long. No one could explain it at the time. Hardly anyone remarked that it made the Senate trial happen just when Mr. Trump should have been concentrating on the reports of a viral outbreak in China. The connection seems relevant as to which part of the deep state was responsible, especially when the Dems made such good use of the pandemic to steal the election.

    Another event of perhaps vital significance is the Israeli decision to close down their embassies worldwide on Oct. 30, 2019 and recall all their diplomats home. The reason given, a labor strike, seems suspiciously like a pretext to me. One might well impute foreknowledge.

    • Agree: DCThrowback
  125. IronForge says:

    Bravo, Mister Unz and Company.

    Thank you; and best regards.

    • Disagree: R2b
  126. @Godfree Roberts

    godfree, what do you think of the recent post on RT that russia’s numbers of deaths & cases were severely under reported? especially, as russia, putin in particular, some years prior to the pandemic had reported the usa had been taking blood samples of russians?

  127. Herald says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    “Officialdom” in any of its present guises has no interest in telling the truth. So the WHO’s superficial inspections will do nothing to find out what actually happened or didn’t happen, but you know that as well as the rest of us do. The reference to the “99% of researchers” would be simply ridiculous, if it wasn’t coming from someone who actually knows better. It seems that you are now beholden to a political agenda and are not a seeker of truth. As for evolutionary virologists thrashing things out, this can’t happen because scientists daren’t do any such thing. It would be the end of their careers or worse, if they did, but again you know that already.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  128. hillaire says:

    haha… still talking about the ‘virus’ the bio-weapon so useless it had to be made in china..

    there is no virus except in-silico on WEF hard-drives…

    virus’s have never been weaponised, bacteria yes.. I don’t buy it and you shouldn’t either

    If your thesis is anyway correct, what on earth is this nonsense:

    [MORE]

    trillions to banks as first response
    putting the old on DNR’s etc
    fake zombie footage from wuhan
    redefinition of pandemics
    banning of alternative meds and media
    fake lancet reports
    why pay hospitals for covid cases
    empty hospitals
    fake news footage
    24/7 psy-op media nonsense
    fake pcr tests
    fake masks, social conditioning..
    nudge theory
    ferguson
    fauci
    woody windows gates
    ridiculous caveats on where you can purchase, enriching the billionaire class
    great reset (opportunity)
    pointless vaccine (the real killer)
    killing of economies
    fake stats
    blanket censorship of real epidemiologists etc etc etc
    and of course any of these can be contradicted at any time and of course will be..

    it looks more like a psy-op… in fact that is what it is because it fails all the tests of ‘logic’..

    and now of course california emptying its reservoirs and the new hacking ‘epidemic’, famine on the horizon….

    is that the mad cackles of glee and the rubbing of hands I hear ?

    • Thanks: St-Germain, R2b
  129. Lorn says:

    The second to last sentence in RonUnz’s answer to question 1;
    “Once people became aware of the basic facts of the virus, belief that it was artificial quickly collapsed.”
    Seems to me if artificial is replaced with natural, the sentence gives stronger support to the logic of his answer.

  130. Agent76 says:

    Jan 18, 2021 Big Pharma in the age of Covid-19(84) with G. Edward Griffin!!!

    Following the first and second world wars companies like IG Farben of Germany and Standard Oil of the US began forming a cartel with the single goal of monopolizing the entire heath and wellness industry.

    • Thanks: emersonreturn, Adam Smith, R2b
    • Replies: @GMC
  131. Antiwar7 says:
    @Anonymous

    Hilarious. Not one word about the _facts_ brought up by Ron.

    Whatever they’re paying you, it’s too much.

  132. @brabantian

    the spike protein mRNA is a massive health and life destroyer, with likely escalating death and injury tolls in years ahead, and a lot of post-vax pregnancy miscarriages one sign of the seeming vax role in creating mass infertility … 15% of the world dead by 2030, and much of the rest unable to have children?

    Then there’s a FOIA release from Japan saying that the mRNA vaccine components escape from the shoulder muscle into the bloodstream shortly after being injected, and then begin to concentrate in the ovaries of women at least within the next 24 hours.

    That does not bode well.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @TheMoon
  133. TheMoon says:
    @onebornfree

    That’s my usual question on a lot of these conspiracies. It’s always a multi-year, mega-operation with thousands of moving parts, and nothing ever leaks out ever, when you could accomplish the same goal with a small covert team in an afternoon.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  134. Iris says:
    @Craig Nelsen

    The program credited an Israeli blogger with giving them the story. That’s a very strange thing if you think about it. Why would an Israeli be feeding a story to a Chinese language media outlet that clearly was meant to raise Chinese suspicions of the US being the source of the virus?

    And similarly, why would Israeli intelligence sources, via their media, gratuitously prove to the world that Pentagone officials had foreknowledge of the worst peacetime catastrophe in decades, by confirming the existence of a report the American military pretended never existed a wee earlier?

    This was either an unprecedented case of betrayal, far worse than the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty. Or it was a deliberate action to ensure that that the American hegemon gets compromised and sis kept firmly trapped on the path of a confrontation with China.

    • Replies: @JWalters
  135. Realist says:
    @obwandiyag

    Argument from consensus has lost some of its allure in the latter day.

    That has always been a logical fallacy, at least among those that think logically. Perhaps logic is not your strong point.

    • Replies: @obwandiyag
  136. Dystopian says:
    @cranc

    There is little doubt that the Chinese and American interests are in this up to their eyeballs but there has to be an international conspiracy of enormous magnitude. I’m sure that many politicians were easily manipulated to over react because it plays on their desire for power but some had to be in on it. I too wonder why Mr. Unz ignores the facts that you mention. His writing implies that he prefers the CCP to the United States but I ma not inside his head. To me it makes more sense to topple our illegitimate authoritarian government than to replace it with a foreign version.

  137. Antiwar7 says:
    @cranc

    None of that has anything to do with the origin of the virus.

    • Disagree: The Real World, thotmonger
  138. Can anyone, you too Mr Unz, name anywhere on the planet where everyone knows for a FACT, no speculation, no Fakes, no Hoaxes, where deadly virus’s were being shipped illegally, from one country to another……. Please anyone, ffs, name one, other than the only lab worldwide, making the news for shiping bat virus samples illegally, please, anyone, name the damn place. So everything written is shear specualtion of ‘where’ it came from, I can only name one place, made the news, still in the news, big hot potatoe scientists removed by police for illegally shipping bat virus; Wuhan? no, Fort Anywhere USA?, no ……China was set up by CIA in Winnipeg, Canada……samples were shipped from there, HUGE OPEN SECRET.

  139. hillaire says:

    NB: it’s highly likely GOF work is the weaponisation of specific ‘proteins’ and nano-lipid delivery systems and we actually have real world proof of that…

    it’s actually fuck all to do with virii (a convenient fairy story)..

    …as more and more young people succumb to lethal heart problems and no doubt mass sterility after a good ‘jabbing’…

  140. Marcali says:
    @Ann Nonny Mouse

    Iran-China distance 4622 km.
    London-Tehran distance 4398 km.
    A Londoner would say Tehran is on the other side of the world. And would be right.

  141. anon[266] • Disclaimer says:
    @Peripatetic Itch

    the mRNA degrades rapidly and the spike proteins do not leave the cells the mRNA enters.

    they simply protrude from the surface of the cell and present to B-cells.

    antigen-presenting cells digest the contents of mRNA’d cells and present the S-protein to T-cells as an infection marker. It is possible that some S-protein fragments escape into the bloodstream during cell necrosis but these levels are on the order of picograms/l

    they are also biologically inert unlike natural spike.

    there is so much goddamned misinformation being bandied about on this…please just stop.

    this was not a fucking US bioweapon. The WIV is *not* 20 miles from the wet market. the epicenter of the outbreak was not the wet market either.

    Thai intelligence alerted the US of a biological anomaly in Wuhan in September or October- this is how Trump knew it was a lab leak.

    China was having cases before the wet market outbreak.

    the simplest explanation is true- the US funded this research in China in concert with the PLA and they fucked up like they have a dozen times before and leaked a pathogen.

  142. Spike protein/prion injectees will take no solace from this report. With no possibility for survival the emphasis must shift to successor planning.

  143. TheMoon says:
    @Peripatetic Itch

    That’s why I’ll avoid the mRNA shots. I’m 8 months pregnant and plan on two more children. I started late, so the last thing I need is any more complications.

    When I got pregnant the first time, my obgyn hands me a list of common foods and drinks to avoid, and now the government wants to inject an experimental drug into me? No thanks. You don’t even need to go to conspiracies and shadowy research for that one. I have to avoid caffeine, but untested drug is OK?

    I don’t even want the J&J one (when I’m done with babymaking) even though it seems closer to a traditional vaccine. I read it was something already existing from efforts to develop an HIV shot, but they seem to have a recurring issues with contamination where they manufacture it. Too many diversity hires, maybe. 😛

    On the other hand, the MSM seems to downplay the mRNA complications and overplay the J&J ones, which is curious.

    • Replies: @Craig Morris
    , @TKK
  144. TheMoon says:
    @dcthrowback

    And yet he still won the election. The whole world knows. People who deny it basically look like Flat Earthers at this point.

  145. Iris says:
    @ThreeCranes

    I suppose Ron could answer: “Easy, Cranes, a member of Iran’s military team would have been debriefed by ranking members of the Iranian government

    I think that this explanation would be over-complicated.

    Iran under sanctions is a poor country, making it easy to corrupt people into joining foreign subversion actions. An exiled faction of the Iranian opposition, the Mujahedeen Khalq, has been used for decades to find local operatives willing to commit Western-sponsored terror attacks inside Iran, for money.

    One of the most striking examples was the recent execution of Mohsen Fakhrizadeh, the head of Iran’s nuclear programme. The car that exploded in front of his had been brought and set up in advance by a paid Iranian, who flew the country just before the attack.

    All paid agents had to do is spray the virus in collective facilities.
    Mosques immediately come to mind, as prayers are attended several times a day, by all classes of the Iranian society, and are ostentatiously attended by Iranian official, as part of the Islamic Republic official dogma.

    Seeding Qom with SARS-CoV2 would have been child play, far easier than Wuhan.

    • Agree: Tdstype2
  146. ld says:
    @Anonymous

    Masters of the Universe
    Rulers of the Earth
    We decide who lives or dies
    and what laws and lies are birthed

    No one would love them
    if not for their nukes
    the blackmail the sanctions
    and CIA spooks

    [MORE]

    the stealing and lying
    the torture the spying
    the starving and dying
    and flag falsifying

    they are vulgar and crass
    and bold as brass
    and expect everybody
    to kiss their ass

    the exceptional nation
    whose main occupation
    is forced subjugation
    and world domination

    don’t dare to point out
    their crimes or hypocricy
    or they may decide
    to send in the democracy

    until the great fall
    that ends the Cabal
    we must put up a front
    and bow to these cunts

    • Thanks: Ryan2
  147. @A little boy in the crowd

    The vaccines are the real bioweapons.

    This is an excellent video interview of Dr Peter McCullough, a very prominent cardiologist and expert on covid early treatment.


  148. TKK says:
    @Anonymous

    Ron Unz can’t hear you because his titanium spine and enormous balls have blocked out your temper tantrum.

    • LOL: Ryan2
  149. Miha says:

    One tiny point: Unz writes: “Iran is on the other side of the world from China”. It’s not even metaphorically on the other side of the world and anyone who cares to look at an atlas or a globe will wonder why Ron Unz would write such a thing. Out of 360 degrees, Iran and China span a subtended angle of about 45 degrees.

    • Replies: @gay troll
  150. “Immediately after the initial Wuhan outbreak, the virus began infecting Iran’s top political elites, and killing a number of them. Isn’t it implausible that a random lab-leak in Wuhan would so quickly jump to the Holy City of Qom on the other side of the world?”

    It shouldn’t surprise anyone that Israel and US created bio weapon C19 virus, and were previously involved in one of the most deadly machine virus attacks in history, launching Stuxnet worm/virus against Iran.
    “Israeli Defense Forces head Gabi Ashkenazi was celebrated for creating the Stuxnet worm/virus under his watch as a tool to undermine Iran’s nuclear program.”

    https://www.csoonline.com/article/3218104/what-is-stuxnet-who-created-it-and-how-does-it-work.html

  151. anonym25 says:
    @Dave C.

    Occam’s razor is not a irrefutable proof. It is also easy to conceive that a rogue nation decided to release this virus in Wuhan knowing full well that there was a biolab working on coronavirus. Furthermore, there are clear warning signs that something was about to happen in China. Within the first six months of 2019, the US carried out a pandemic simulation known as the Crimson simulation. In october 2019, there was another pandemic simulation called Event 201. And we find now out the British government carried out a pandemic simulation of their own. There are too many coincidences and they all point to a planned event. This isn’t a lab leak; it is biowarfare operation.

    The Chinese are certainly not dumb enough to release on their own population a pathogen which could destroy their own country. Someone else must be behing. The motivation, you might ask? To contain China’s rise.

    • Agree: Iris
    • Replies: @The Alarmist
  152. GMC says:
    @Alfred

    Propaganda and the Media – ya it started way back when , but the nail in the coffin was the Oreo Cookie President that passed the final Propaganda law , in order to make it , even more legal to Lie, lie and lie some more. ” We now have the Right to use Propaganda – Against the US Citizen ” Most of all the international Intel agencies know for a fact – that he is African born – but the NWO got him a Pass – even the Russians wouldn’t call him out – which has always pissed me off about Russia.

  153. anonym25 says:
    @Craig Nelsen

    It is also a Mossad agent, Dany Shoham, that first started spreading the rumors of the Wuhan lab leak.

  154. TKK says:
    @ThreeCranes

    What a fascinating theory.

    To support:

    1) Look at his eyes. Vacant. Doll’s eyes. Honestly, he is so false I can’t bear to watch him. Something is wrong. He always wears sun glasses, strange aviator shades, to block his eyes.

    2) How many times now has he said if he goes into his own thoughts: I am going to get in trouble. His own tattered brain battling “The Program”?

    3) His literal disappearance 6 months before the Election. Only appearances were virtual, which could be Deep Fake . His main interview was with….Cardi B of the WAP Fame. (Wet Ass Pussy song).

    4) Putin’s mysterious smile and retort to Biden’s claim he was a killer: “I wish him good health.”

    5) Hate to beat it into the ground, but re-watch the clip of him eating ice cream. It is like a retarded toddler. The crowd coos like he is a puppy with a cleft palate. Then a reporter asks: What is your response to Republicans who want to block an investigation of the events of Jan. 6?

    Biden’s answer ?: Eat some chocolate chocolate chip!

    • Replies: @ThreeCranes
  155. @Anonymous

    Actually I have found Ron to be even-tempered with a measured tone in his articles.

    • Agree: TKK
  156. GMC says:
    @Agent76

    Great interview A-76 – excellent !!

  157. @utu

    That’s your opinion. I disagree. This looks to me like Pompeo trying to wrest control of the narrative.

    • Disagree: utu
  158. @Ron Unz

    But since Pompeo is probably the leading suspect behind the biowarfare attack, it raises an interesting possibility.

    The 09/26/20 Amy Coney Barrett (ACB) Rose Garden nomination “superspreader” ceremony is another highly suspicious incident befalling Trump that reeks of being a bold and reckless warning sent from Trump’s invisible enemies, or perhaps even an indiscriminate but “plausibly deniable” “Executive Action” type attempt. If this incident was in fact deliberate, the action could have been pulled off only with the collusion of highly placed, and/or deeply embedded insiders.

    To recap the incident, Trump held a big outdoor Rose Garden event to announce his choice of ACB to fill the SC position vacated by the passing of SCJ RBG. It was widely reported at the time that WH Secret Service required that all attendees to the outside event must take and pass a rapid covid test ( WH was reportedly using at the time, a fast rtPCR , and an even more rapid antigen test method, both of which were made by Abbott) the day of the ceremony.

    In spite of such precautions, more than 11 prominent guests and press camera people, including a few wearing masks during the ceremony, and almost ALL of them located in the first few rows nearest the stage, as well as Trump himself, became infected with Covid within the next week or so following the event.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8799193/Republican-senator-Mike-Lee-tests-positive-COVID-meeting-SCOTUS-nominee-Amy-Coney-Barrett.html

    Mike Pence and Bill Barr were sitting in the front row, and they were not reported to have been among those that came down with covid following the event.

    I have not been able to find any confirmed reports/photos indicating that either Pompeo, or prominent “Front Row” republican senatorial advocates for ACB’s nomination like Mitch McConnell, Lindsey Graham, or Ted Cruz, attended the Rose Garden ceremony. If true, the absence of the latter group of senators from the event seems quite anomalous, given their longstanding, strongly vocal and partisan histories of working to get “conservative” judges onto the Supreme Court. This should have been a celebration of victory for them.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_House_COVID-19_outbreak

  159. @utu

    Totally. I’d also like to know why Nicholas Wade declined Ron’s offer to publish his article on UNZ Review.

    • Replies: @utu
  160. Anonymous[144] • Disclaimer says:
    @TheMoon

    You could get hundreds of millions around the world to take poison in just one afternoon?

    • Replies: @TheMoon
  161. Covid-19 does not exist, it has never been isolated, therefore it does not exist, it is a concept an illusion that was created in the demented minds of the Rockefeller and Gates Foundations and the WEF and UN Agenda 2030 and the central banks of the world including the FED and was rolled out world wide in one fell swoop by all of the above.

    This illusion is being used to instill hysteria and fear in the people of the world and to drive them into taking the vaccines, which are not vaccines, but are an injection of mRNA which alters the DNA and destroys the immune system and acts as a genocide injection, to further the globalists depopulation agenda.

    The Wuhan lab story is a classic diversion to give credence to the lie of the Wuhan lab story, it is all lies, and the bottom line is the fact that it is all a diabolical illusion.

    • Agree: JasonT
  162. Oilman says:

    I have been saying the exact same thing since day one. The first countries that were dealing with infections were: China, Iran, Italy, and Spain. China and Iran are enemies of the US but what about Italy and Spain? Italy, a NATO member, not only refused to quarrel with Russia but push for the abolition of all sanctions against them. That obviously infuriated NATO and the US.
    What about Spain which is another NATO member? Spain refused to buy the fear and propaganda pushed by the EU, NATO, and the US. In fact, they are favorably neutral in regards to Russia. Both Italy and Spain needed to be punished hence were the first countries in Europe to be infected.

    So yes, it was from a US lab. Make no mistake, the US is, without any doubt, a terrorist country and proven through what they have done in the past and today. Back in 2001, an exercise called Dark Winter which was about how to defeat a bio-terror attack, was promoted by the John Hopkins Center for Health Security and had many top US key players such as: the National Security Advisor, Director of Central Intelligence, Secretary of Defense, etc. The key here was to find ways to vaccinate everyone. A few months after, an anthrax attack on US soil. The problem back then was that the media was not yet fully bought and paid for hence the propaganda was not as easy to promote as it is today. For that reason and a few others, they failed once a chemist openly admitted that the anthrax sample came from a US lab. They accused someone who always denied his involvement. The US killing their own? It certainly would not be the first time!

    Just before Covid, another John Hopkins exercise was in play called Event 201. Funny how such exercises appear just months before the real thing, right? Do you believe in such coincidences? Exercises that work on how to vaccinate everyone?

    The US is guilty as hell!

  163. gay troll says:
    @Chris Moore

    A fish rots from the head.

  164. chrimony says:
    @Ron Unz

    the massive outbreak that hit Iran’s political elites had no apparent connection to China or Chinese whatsoever

    Really? Let’s compare your claims to this Reuter’s article: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-iran-qom-idUSKBN21K1NO

    Now, I am completely open to the possibility Reuters gets things wrong either by accident or intentionally, but the same can be said of you. You obviously have a hammer and have gone looking for nails.

    Quotes from the Reuter’s article in italics:

    “Qom, among Iran’s most important cities, has close links to China and is home to many Chinese. Iran’s health minister has publicly said that the virus is believed to have arrived from China by a merchant from Qom, who died of the virus.”

    “Wuhan and the Holy City of Qom are over 3,600 miles apart, a pretty long distance for an accidental lab-leak to jump.”

    Apparently planes don’t exist in your world.

    But by late February Iran had become the second epicenter of the global outbreak.

    So a full two months after Wuhan. Why did the spooks wait so long? It also hit Italy hard in February too. But you ignore that, because it doesn’t match the narrative.

    Even more surprisingly, its political elites had been especially hard-hit, with a full 10% of the entire Iranian parliament soon infected and at least a dozen of its officials and politicians dying of the disease, including some who were quite senior.

    Do you think that it was an election season might have something to do with it? Do you think the religious practice of people licking shrines in Qom might have something to do with it? https://nypost.com/2020/03/02/iranians-licking-religious-shrines-in-defiance-of-coronavirus-spread/

    Reuters article: “And, when the authorities did become aware of domestic cases of the flu-like virus in early January, they didn’t announce the news until weeks later, out of concern that releasing detailed information would unsettle the public ahead of parliamentary elections scheduled for February 21, according to a senior official with direct knowledge of the matter.”

    Wuhan lab is located 20 miles(!) from the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market, which was the earliest epicenter of the Wuhan outbreak. A distance of 20 miles seems pretty far for an accidental lab-leak.

    So they don’t have cars, highways, and mass transit in Wuhan? A twenty mile trip into the city of Boston was nothing when I worked around there.

    There’s also this from Nicholas Wade’s article:

    “Steven Quay, a physician-researcher, has applied statistical and bioinformatic tools to ingenious explorations of the virus’s origin, showing for instance how the hospitals receiving the early patients are clustered along the Wuhan №2 subway line which connects the Institute of Virology at one end with the international airport at the other, the perfect conveyor belt for distributing the virus from lab to globe.”

    Your focus on a deliberate “bioweapon” obscures the Occam’s Razor and much more dangerous position: That scientists in the US and China were funding and conducting gain-of-function research for years, and it was warned about for years how dangerous this research was, and the exact scenario of a lab escape causing a worldwide pandemic was feared. The Wuhan lab was doing gain-of-function research on coronaviruses. Wuhan was the epicenter of novel coronavirus outbreak. Gee, what possibly could have gone wrong?

  165. All this discussion – what is it worth? Where does it go? Nothing. Nowhere.

    Believe it – this will all blow over, just like 9/11, just like WMD, just like JFK. There has never been an investigation into 9/11 – no subpoenas, no testimonies under oath, no offers of immunity, no indictments – only a vulgar display of waterboarding. And it will be the same with Covid.

    We have here a circle jerk of finger pointing, a lot of energy expended for nothing.

    Get ready for Covid-20.

    • Agree: Alfred
  166. The Chinese knew that it was a Biological attack.For the last decade they have suffered swine flu, chicken flu and this was expected.
    All this is blamed on animal and human proximity but was deep state Bio attack.
    locking down the entire city of 11 million, and soon expanding the lockdowns to the region and then the entire country, confining 700 million Chinese to their homes for several weeks. This allowed them to completely stamp out the virus, and within a few months, the country was almost back to normal.

    Meanwhile, the American government mostly ignored the entire problem and the possibility that the virus would get back into the U.S. Our CDC botched the production of testing-kits, so for many weeks we had no way of knowing if the virus was starting to spread here.
    As this bio attack was by the American deep state and secret services, they could not warn the American public as this would draw attention to them.

    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Dilyana+Gaytandzhieva&t=opera&iar=videos&iax=videos&ia=videos

    3 years ago I saved this link. It’s by a fearless woman journalist. These were US Bio Labs in Eastern Europe.
    The enemy is us

  167. utu says:
    @Johnny Rico

    ” why Nicholas Wade declined Ron’s offer” – It should be obvious – Wade is sane, but I am not convinced that there was such an offer. Ron Unz for tactical reasons was against voicing theories that virus was lab created because their propaganda value was to implicate China. For instance he was very suspicious of Yuri Deigin and speculated that possibly Deigin was not acting alone, i.e., he was a front for some disinfo operation while it was Deigin who was profusely acknowledged by Wade in his Medium article. But assuming that indeed Ron Unz made such an offer it would tell us that it was either an attempt to sabotage Wade’s message or if it was genuine and authentic offer it is an indication of Ron Unz’s detachment from reality, a majority consensus reality in which his Webzine is reputation killer, in which only certifiable deplorables and desperadoes publish.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  168. Thank you, Ron Unz, for your eminently sensible explanation.

    It rings true mainly because it is the sort of thing that zio-USA would do because it has a long history of doing similar grotesque things against its own people as well as against others. No-one needs reminding of MK-Ultra, Agent Orange, fake shootings, citizens used in drug experiments, bombing occupation looting of other countries. Etc.

    The “people” running USA watch their own once-famous cities collapse, their citizens reduced to penury. It is by any standards an ongoing disaster yet simpletons believe if only they had Trump and MAGA all would be well. They believe USA is fundamentally a righteous country with only a few isolated baddies, despite the record.

    It is not. It is part of the axis of evil, a paraiah, a mad dog, a gangster cartel.
    And for any wishing to say that the Jews made is do it, this obnoxious operation was carried out by zionist goyim or paid operators (like Bolton eg or the “contractors” occupying foreign countries)* while this is a Jew writing this expose.

    * Like too many more to name; JFK gunman, 9/11 facilitators, those assisting LBJ to gag USS Liberty, “soldiers” firing DU into Iraqi civilians, Cocaine Importing Agency, almost everyone in US academia, “journalists”, politicians, FBI, judeo-“christians”.
    The whole rotten country, basically.

  169. utu says:
    @chrimony

    I agree with your objections except that I would be skeptical of whatever Steven Quay produces. He seemed to be recruited by David Asher, a former senior investigator under contract to the State Department who now is with the Hudson Institute.

    Quotes is from Vanity Fair (June 3, 2021)

    https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/06/the-lab-leak-theory-inside-the-fight-to-uncover-covid-19s-origins

    “Asher invited Dr. Steven Quay, a breast cancer specialist who’d founded a biopharmaceutical company, to present a statistical analysis weighing the probability of a lab origin versus a natural one. Scissoring Quay’s analysis, Baric noted that its calculations failed to account for the millions of bat sequences that exist in nature but remain unknown. When a State Department adviser asked Quay whether he’d ever done a similar analysis, he replied there’s “a first time for everything,” according to the meeting minutes.”

    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
  170. @TheMoon

    J&J also creates spike proteins, it just does it with a viral vector instead of mRNA. Sputnik and Sinovac are traditional vaccines if you can get them.

    • Replies: @Dave C.
  171. While this will never be confirmed even if true, it is clear that the Establishment lied to us when they stated unequivocally “This did NOT come out of a lab!” Their continued censoring and repressing medical research information clearly shows there is an agenda that is still rolling along after Trump is gone (ie, he was not really the cause, just a convenient excuse). It is no coincidence that the Rich got much richer during the pandemic!

    A major part of Covid-19 is its interesting demographics. Over half of its victims are over age 80 (median age of death globally is 82). If infected, one in six died. Probably the neocons saw these deaths as a small price to pay to push us closer to war with China (the life expectancy of an 82 year old American is less than ten years, and only 16% or so at that age, probably the most compromised medically, are vulnerable to Covid-19.) Plus 95% of deaths occur, globally, in those over age 60 (According to Marty Makary there are NO documented cases of children dying except with serious medical co-morbidities.) Bureaucrats beyond the CIA Neocons would probably be delighted to stop cutting Social Security payments to 500,000 American Covid-19 victims; win win for the Establishment!

    As a retired scientist, I am shocked and horrified by the continuing censoring of medical information (RUSSIAN!!! “DISINFORMATION!” as stated by State Media). The uses of glucocorticoids and anti-clotting agents were suppressed, despite GLOBAL scientific publications showing efficacy against Covid-19, even in serious cases (vaccines DO NOT work once infected). While these two classes of drugs are now standard of care, only remdesivir has been approved, as a small molecule drug, by the FDA for Covid-19 (the WHO says remdesivir is ineffective). Prophylactic effects of ivermectin, fluvoxamine, colchicine and other drugs (including the much reviled hydroxychloroquine, which can take months for efficacy to develop in arthritis and lupus) were also suppressed, though used in many countries with low death rates from Covid-19. The mad dash for vaccinations did not get well underway until natural immunity had lowered the death rates to 5-20% of its peak in mid January in the US, Mexico, and (still unvaccinated) South Africa.

    It is still unclear how much of the West’s high death rate is due to willful incompetence, and how much is by design.

    • Agree: Iris
  172. frontier says:
    @GomezAdddams

    something, something in 2019 in Belgium

    Where the virus was created is irrelevant. Now it’s an accepted possibility that US might have had something to do with it, it’s no longer a conspiracy theory – part of the research in Wuhan was funded by the US, it’s a fact. You people are so weak-minded, the real problem is with the title’s “aimed at China”, looking at the response of the West, it’s clear that the virus was aimed at the West and Trump, first and foremost. Interests in both US and China would gain from the pandemic, so cooperation isn’t impossible, but arguing about it is feeding the trolls. The major issue was and remains the incredibly corrupt response, pushing for vaccines while treatments are being suppressed.

    • Agree: Getaclue
    • Replies: @frontier
  173. Anonymous[262] • Disclaimer says:
    @Big Daddy

    Dr. Burgdorf, for whom the organism is named, admitted that he had engineered the organism and used it to infect deer on Plum Island. He admitted that he was surprised to find out that they had swum the 7 mile channel and caused the disease outbreak on Long Island.

    Don’t try to cloud this well-documented history.

    • Replies: @Getaclue
  174. @utu

    America released the virus in Wuhan and then in Iran’s Qum. All the jigsaw pieces fit perfectly when viewed through this lens.
    It might not be the establishment but their out of control secret agencies that are responsible. Unz is right.

  175. gay troll says:
    @Miha

    Plus both Iran and China share a border with Afghanistan.

  176. 300 military personnel is not “cover”. It is a prime target for surveillance.

    US citizens can easily visit China whenever. The very least likely time for the US to release a virus would be when there were 300 of their own military personnel there, being surveiled intensively.

    That’s like trying to anonymously pee on your friend’s floor, just as you’ve told him you’re going to the loo.

    The crux, and only really good part, of Ron Unz’s argument, is actually strong circumstantial evidence that the Americans didn’t do it!

    • Agree: chrimony
    • Replies: @chrimony
    , @Ron Unz
  177. bayviking says:

    Ron Unz is hammering away on this issue, which is based on a large amount of circumstantial evidence. Evidence which could easily convict any poor person in the USA, but not a rich person.

    If incontrovertible evidence ever surfaces in support of this allegation the United States of America will be thrown into the shit can of human history in the eyes of the world forever more. Such an outcome cannot be ruled out.

    But there is a less controversial explanation which links the outbreak to bat guana being shoveled in 2012 which killed 3 of 6 miners outside Wuhun. Wuhun rushed to the site to collect samples which closely or exactly match the DNA samples of Covid-19, but were assigned a different designation at the time. These studies and samples have been carefully documented in Chinese pHD thesis and more recently translated into English. But these samples are also available to Chinese and American scientists working closely together to be engineered into full functionality, which is what these people do in their labs. They should be shut down, just like nuclear weapons manufacturers.

    If Mr. Unz ever proves to be correct the average American might just as well bend over and kiss his ass good-bye. Eventually, the US decline will impact the rich and ruling class, but that will take a considerable amount of time, even if water and food become scarce, as the climate crisis continues to grow.

  178. @chrimony

    They kiss the shrine and don’t lick it just like the Christians or the Jews.
    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Dilyana+Gaytandzhieva&t=opera&iar=videos&iax=videos&ia=videos

    • Replies: @chrimony
  179. AReply says:

    Never have so many questioned been formally begged and so much flung against the wall to see what sticks.

    There is nothing the least bit controversial about a lab accident. Day 1 this was the most obvious explanation as the news of the out break origin coincided with a BSL4 lab officially charted to produce the sort of organism that caused the outbreak. Newsweek had the jump on everyone here by reporting on this both before and after the outbreak. The Obama Admin had issued a moratorium in 2014 because leading scientists had been warning of the risks of post-SARS research programs. The moratorium was mostly a tepid, bureaucratic stall to clarify language in permissible funding, but it was in keeping with a factotum administration. That research was already being off-shored, at that time. When Trump got in, his admin reversed the moratorium.

    As to how nefarious this all is, here’s an explanation far more compelling than Unz’ and fits the readily available facts: Covid was an industrial accident that grew from a converted USA-funded, international effort to understand and treat SARS, based on fears of a similar zoonotic outbreak. Meanwhile, the military (which implies intelligence services plus half the US economy and our public university system!) had their fingers in it for all kinds of “national security” reasons, and naturally this includes weapons.

    You can imagine a shadowy Dr. Mengele in there somewhere hatching some Evil Enterprise (a white, christopathoc, rightwing minion or Trumpling is who I’d blame out of ideological convenience) but it’s not necessary to this explanation any more so than such a Dr Evil is necessary to Union Carbide Bhopal, India, Love Canal, Lake Erie, or Three Mile Island, Chernobyl, Fukushima or decades of atmospheric nuclear weapons testing that wantonly poisoned a million people as part of a grand industrial escapade that not only wasn’t secret, but were the bragging rights of a generation!

    Were the premature deaths of a 1/2 million Americans due to radioactive Iodine from Nevada in their food a due to atomic weapons research a result of a cause or an effect. The weapons themselves where only meaningful to fight an adversary who gained the weapons themselves. It’s well understood that Japan was finished and Hiroshima and Nagasaki left untouched by firebombing so there would be clean targets for a nuclear demonstration. Freeman Dyson himself is on record saying whether the demonstration should have been conducted was academic because the industrial pipeline leading to the action had a life of its own which would play out in such a way that individual choice (of leadership) was meaningless.

    So what does Unz add to an obvious explanation of the origins and causes of Covid-19?

    NOTHING AT All

    Unz is operating a sinple echo-chamber of his own voice in history for — apparently, and my conjecture here is fair game by Unz’ implicit logic — no other reason than if he throws enough shit at the web and some of it eventually sticks he can subsequently take credit as being a new-fangled USA Libertarian Nostradamus.

    As to social media black-balling Unz.com, this is far from the only cottage site of political ranting to be delisted by Google or Facebook, and others far more legit and far more positive in their tone were blackballed long before Unz. There was a big delisting years ago pertaining to the new McCarthyism of the Democrats. But what’s really going on? A private search company is choosing not to support revenue-sharing with customers it doesn’t like. Big Fucking Deal.

    No Shirt No Shoes No Service, No tickie no washey!

    USA Libertarians should be jumping for joy at owners freedom to make their choices in the free market. DICKWEEDS!

    But the actual causes may be sonewhat more benign. In Unz’ case it is no doubt related to the site promoting overt white nationalist claptrap which is well recognized as being verboten, for very good reason of avoiding the aiding and abetting of an army of murderously reprogramable meatbag fascists constituting today’s Republican Party.

    • Troll: Mehen
  180. TKK says:
    @TheMoon

    Good luck with your pregnancy and Congratulations.

    • Thanks: TheMoon
  181. chrimony says:
    @Triteleia Laxa

    US citizens can easily visit China whenever. The very least likely time for the US to release a virus would be when there were 300 of their own military personnel there, being surveiled intensively.

    Even worse, you risk your soldiers mixing in with the population and bringing the virus back home, which apparently occurred for the US and Canada, at the minimum. The whole suggestion is idiotic if you think it through.

    https://prospect.org/coronavirus/did-the-military-world-games-spread-covid-19/
    https://www.rebelnews.com/covid_coverup_trudeau_govt_helped_china_hide_origins_of_covid_19

    • Replies: @anonym25
    , @Hughes
  182. Schuetze says:

    Just as the leak supposedly occurring at the Wuhan Laboratory provides on degree of plausible deniability from the “virus” being a US bioweapon, so does the more plausible explanation of the “leak” emanating from one of the myriad US bioweapons lab provide another degree of plausible deniability from the “virus” being an Israeli, or Jewish bioweapon. Some points of light providing evidence that this is a Jewish bioweapon and the Jew-Flu:

    1. Republicans and Democrats will stop at nothing in order to smear each other of the most outrageous accusations, yet neocons from both parties are desperate to point the finger at China and Wuhan labs. If this were truly a biowarfare attack originating in the Trump administration, the Democrats would be ringing the bell, and vice versa. Jews have the most to gain if this all turns out to be a limited hangout with both US political parties sharing the blame.

    2. Republicans certainly do not have enough power over the press to control any narrative, let alone a plandemic. Democrats neither. Only one group on the planet is powerful enough to orchestrate the entire planetary media to sing to one single tune, then another: First it was bat soup, then it was China bat research.

    3. China with its OBOR and world wide resource grab is causing the hebrews migrane headaches.

    4. China is demanding an end to the jewish controlled US dollar and BIS central banking hegemony. The country to act this boldly against the planetary usurers was Germany under Adolph Hitler.

    5. Only Israel and Jewish Power could get the entire planet to ban Ivermectine and Hydroxychloroquine and accept emergency mRNA gene therapy as the only possible path to get “back to normal”.

    6. Iran is far more Israel’s enemy than the US’s.

    7. Jews have a long history of biowarfare, from poisoned wells to poisoning Germany’s water sources after WWII.

    8. Jews are constantly horny for more Goy holocausts.

    There is loads more circumstantial evidence indicating that this was all caused by the chicken swingers, but this is a good start.

    • Agree: Robert Dolan
  183. chrimony says:
    @Rev. Spooner

    They kiss the shrine and don’t lick it just like the Christians or the Jews.

    Kissing a shrine during a pandemic is bad enough, but apparently some religious idiot made a point of licking the shrine on video in an act of defiance.

  184. Yee says:

    I think the US not only planned the bio-attack, they tried to plan China’s response to it as well…

    That “Event 201” in Oct 2019.

    Apart from a deputy director from U.S. CDC, the only other CDC invited was the chief of Chinese CDC. The whole thing could be just to “teach” the Chinese CDC how to handle the epidemic.

    Unfortunately for them, the chief didn’t get a chance to practice what he has learned in Event 201, Chinese CDC got pushed aside almost from the beginning, the top leadership took over. So that plan failed as well.

  185. If this analysis is correct then surely we should expect retaliation …

    After all, two can play that game.

  186. frontier says:
    @frontier

    Forgot to mention, before the pandemic, Hong Kong was engulfed by demonstrations which quickly died out during the lock-down.

  187. Iris says:
    @chrimony

    It also hit Italy hard in February too. But you ignore that, because it doesn’t match the narrative.

    Apologies, but Italy being struck so early by Covid19 fits very well with this article’s thesis.

    Italy is home to the largest Chinese diaspora in Europe, officially circa 350,000 people, but in reality much more, considering that thousands overstay their visas. Of those, the majority is concentrated in the region of Milan and Venice, the two principal hotbeds of earliest Covid19 outbreaks in Italy. So cross-border contamination is much plausible.

    More importantly, Italy is the only European country to have broken ranks with the NATO-led world order, and has officially joined China’s “Belt and Road Initiative“, a transformational economic and geopolitical project that will re-shape the world. So deliberate contamination by the US NeoCon crazies would be equally plausible.

    https://europeanlawblog.eu/2019/06/25/the-road-that-divided-the-eu-italy-joins-chinas-belt-and-road-initiative/#:~:text=Its%20Belt%20and%20Road%20Initiative%20%28BRI%29%20is%20an,Asian%20superpower.%20To%20BRI%2C%20or%20not%20to%20BRI%3F

    • Replies: @chrimony
  188. Ron Unz says:
    @GomezAdddams

    “A new analysis of blood samples from 24,000 Americans taken early last year is the latest and largest study to suggest that the new coronavirus popped up in the U.S. in December 2019 — weeks before cases were first recognized by health officials.” and this means –it was earlier than Wuhan—????

    Not really. Most mainstream experts believe that the Covid outbreak began in Wuhan during late October or early November, but it took almost two months for infections to become sufficiently numerous that health officials realized what was happening. After all, the cause was an unknown and undetectable new virus.

    The American blood samples seem to show that a half-dozen Americans might have become infected by the end of December, probably a couple of months after the Wuhan outbreak began. Given international travel, this seems perfectly plausible.

    • Replies: @d dan
  189. https://archive.org/details/strecker-memorandum-1988
    This video by Dr. Strecker is now 33 years old. In it he explains convincingly that virus do not jump species, and that these so called viruses Covid19 and AIDS are a combination of poisons taken from calf lymph, sheep and pigs then combined with human cells, to create a new virus which will effect humans. He explains how the AIDS virus was made, and where it was initially spread. It all happened here in America, made in America, if you will. There is enough evidence of criminality in the bio-warfare arena, at the CDC, NIH etc., and who the criminals are to indict. And guess what? The same people back then are involved today, less a few who have died naturally, and a few not so naturally. We can talk talk talk, but can we act act act? How do we get a federal or state prosecutor to draw up the indictments? That’s the question? Grand Jury anyone?

  190. @Ron Unz, @Mike Whitney
    Multiple Sources Theory
    it’s a mistake to think of one event (be it intentional employment of a bioweapon or a lab leak). The technique of altering coronavirus is known and it could be done by at least 10-12 labs. It makes more sense to think of still going-on biowarfare. Perhaps the US poisoned the well in Wuhan; China could seed a form of virus in the US as a revenge; Israel would attack Iran. Some countries would be attacked so nobody would remain untouched: thus, somebody attacked Czechia and Cambodia, the two countries that had no covid at all. New poisonings would take into account the vaccines employed. So there is no end to it; and possibly the people who do it (not necessarily sovereign states) will continue their attacks. Today President Biden announced (in Geneva) stand-by for the next pandemic. So perhaps we should consider Multiple Sources’ Theory, as opposed to One Event.

    • LOL: L.K
    • Troll: Je Suis Omar Mateen
  191. anonym25 says:
    @chrimony

    You need to read Yoichi Shimatsu’s articles on covid19 to get a clear picture of what happened at the Wuhan Military Games. In my opinion, he brings an alternative explanation worth looking into.

    https://rense.com/general96/how-cov-biowar-by-japan-uk-israel-hit-the-world-military-games-part-12.php

    https://rense.com/general96/russia-blames-porton-down-darpa-pirbright.php

    And yes, the US is still involved in this affair. According to Shimatshu, the Obama administration secretly started this biowarfare operation and transferred it to England.

    https://rense.com/general96/obama-era-dhs-nih-funded-tb-research-on-uk-badgers-for-covid-biowar-part-21.php

    The target of this operation was clearly China and the democrats used to opportunity to oust Trump from power.

  192. anon[425] • Disclaimer says:

    Im old enough to remember when microwaves, phones, hvacs, ovens, refrigerators, pots/pans/cutlery, televisions, clocks, computers, light fixtures, tupperware, furniture, desks, all manner of construction equipment, water heaters, shoes, clothing of all kinds, toys, bicycles, motorcycles, and sporting equipment was made in the USA.

    Now we make weapons and viruses and vaccines that make young people have heart problems and old people have blood clots/strokes.

    I think it was better in 1975 folks. We listened to the wrong intellectuals. I think the rest of the world is going to see it also. BLM, antifa, and LGTBQ, porn, and carrier groups are not effective selling points for our way of strife.

    • Replies: @Alden
  193. anarchyst says:

    The same thing occurred during the misnamed “1918 Spanish flu epidemic”. An experimental (failed) meningitis “treatment” made its way to Europe with American soldiers destined for WW1.
    It is interesting to note that most of the deaths were from bacterial pneumonia, NOT the “flu” itself. Mask wearers were being buried by those who did not wear masks.
    Sound familiar??

  194. Ron Unz says:
    @GomezAdddams

    Gomez old chap —–Barcelona Spain is where this all started March 2019—-then came Italy September 2019 —again a 10 year old boy in Milan November 2019—France had some Covid counts in the autumn of 2019 and so did Belgium.

    I’m extremely skeptical of that alleged early evidence of Covid detected in European blood samples taken during 2019. There’s always a serious risk of false-positives in those sorts of tests, and a single Covid case which appeared in March 2019 with no additional cases for nearly a year seems a very likely sign of that.

    For example, the MSM just revealed that a half-dozen Covid cases had now been found in America before the end of December 2019, and those results are perfectly plausible:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/15/health/coronavirus-usa-cases.html

    Since the researchers were properly cautious about false-positives in their 24,000 samples, they actually used two separate antibody tests in sequence. The first found 147 instances of Covid, but the second reduced that number to just 9. So almost 95% of the cases initially found turned out to be false-positives. That surely explains those very anomalous 2019 results from Barcelona and elsewhere that have been frequently discussed on the Internet.

    • Replies: @anon4321534534
  195. Alden says:

    3. facts

    USA census bureau claims USA total population 2021 331, 449, 281.

    CDC claims deaths from ccovid since March 2020 600,389.

    Average age of covid deaths 81

    Every other country in the world shows similar statistics

    • Replies: @Alden
  196. Getaclue says:
    @Anonymous

    You are right — here’s the history and a new book about it — Lyme disease existed before but they definitely weaponized it on Plum Island — Dr. Burgdorf was involved and spilled the beans as he probably felt a bit bad about all the people infected/destroyed by the weaponized Ticks that hopped on the Deer that then swam them to the Mainland USA — Nazi Scientists I read also were a big part of the “Team”– really the USA is “run” by the most insane low life creeps — and has been for a very long time:

    https://goodtimes.sc/cover-stories/lyme-disease/

    • Thanks: St-Germain
  197. Ron Unz says:
    @Jimmy The Cop

    I can’t “buy” the rogue element of this story. The propaganda is too pervasive to be anything but a full-fledged bio-attack by the deep-state…A Bio-Attack? Yes! A Rogue Element? NO!

    I think it’s partly a matter of definition. Based upon Trump’s behavior, I very much doubt that he was part of the plot, and if the president didn’t approve the attack, I consider it a “rogue operation.”

    My strong suspicion is that the attack was orchestrated by some of the Deep State Neocons near the very top of his administration, with people like Mike Pompeo and John Bolton being the most likely suspects. They would have been able to draw upon America’s national security resources, including our biowarfare labs, to actually carry it out, with all those lower-level participants assuming it was a fully authorized covert military operation against our primary geopolitical adversaries. And given thir senior positions, the conspirators would have also easily been able to orchestrate the massive media propaganda which immediately followed.

    • Replies: @gay troll
  198. Alden says:
    @Alden

    Another way, .18 percent of the USA population average 81 died of covid in a period of 15 months.

    And for that the entire country was shut down and Marxist style regulations regarding every aspect of life from childbirth to funerals was instituted. Many of those regulations are still being enforced and will never end.

    • Agree: Hamlet's Ghost
  199. Schuetze says:

    When John Stewart and Stephan Colbert finally cover it, then it is officially a limited hangout…

    • Agree: gay troll
  200. @utu

    Why Mike Whitney? …when there are such prime choices on the main menu: Kevin Barrett, Anatool Karlin, proven and true midgets of the Covid farce. What agenda can do, i wonder how they compare to movie actors and politicians in incentives. It all feels like second league. The surplus population likes soccer, the Jewish middle class like to play su-c-c-er.

  201. Ron Unz says:
    @utu

    ” why Nicholas Wade declined Ron’s offer” – It should be obvious – Wade is sane, but I am not convinced that there was such an offer…But assuming that indeed Ron Unz made such an offer it would tell us that it was either an attempt to sabotage Wade’s message or if it was genuine and authentic offer it is an indication of Ron Unz’s detachment from reality

    I’ve been friendly with Nicholas Wade for about a decade, but hadn’t recently been in touch with him, so I had no idea he was working on his very important article. I certainly agree it would have been extremely inadvisable for him to have published it here, for exactly the reasons you indicate. Frankly, it was a miracle that his self-published piece overturned the entire conventional narrative on the origins of Covid, and that outcome would have become an utter impossibility if this webzine had been the venue.

    Ron Unz for tactical reasons was against voicing theories that virus was lab created because their propaganda value was to implicate China. For instance he was very suspicious of Yuri Deigin and speculated that possibly Deigin was not acting alone

    Not at all. I’d always thought there was a very good possibility that Covid came from a lab, which obviously was a requirement of the Biowarfare Hypothesis, which I’d first presented in April 2020. However, I was very suspicious about the extremely long and detailed Deigin article for the reasons I explained, and I still remain suspicious today. My lack of expertise in microbiology made it impossible for me to easily check Deigin’s analysis, but as a longtime science journalist, Wade was far more knowledgeable, and he apparently put in a great deal of time and effort in confirming the plausibility of Deigin’s claims.

  202. Alden says:
    @anon

    I know a couple in their early 50s. They’ve owned their house for 27 years. They just bought their 4th $5,000 Chinese refrigerator. And third $4,000 Chinese stove. The stove has an electric control board touch screen to turn it on and off and set temperature. If the stove is like most things, the touch screen control board will fail soon. And they’ll have to buy a new one. Think about it. A stove whose gas can’t be turned on by turning a knob that turns a valve..

    Meanwhile, in the garage is a 1970s freezer they were given by his parents back when they bought the house. Still works even in fall when the first bad wind or rain storm knocks out the electricity lines for several hours.

    These $5,000 Chinese refrigerators can’t cope with even a 10 minute power outage. Once there’s a power outage the refrigerator section fails completely. But the freezer section electricity comes right back on when electricity is restored. But the refrigerator section can’t cope with even a 10 minute circuit break down.

    There doesn’t seem to be a way to fix the refrigerator section. Even in a family of electrical engineers and contractors.

    • Agree: TKK, Red Pill Angel
  203. BorisMay says:

    Red herring…as I’ve written before all this supposition and probabilities is a red herring.

    This is all irrelevant and Unz has created a smoke screen for his rich friends to hide behind.

    The only way to look at this is ‘follow the money’. Who gains?

    Big Pharma gains. Covid is a scam. The first world wide scam. And the only result of this scam, as with all others, the poor have become poorer and the rich (big Pharma owners) have become even richer.

    Unz is being dishonest with his readers unless Unz is either:

    A) One of the rich profiting from it, or
    B) Is shielding his rich friends.

    Come on Mr Unz, you are barking up the wrong tree. Time to either face this fact or admit your financial interest in the success of the Covid scam.

  204. Ron Unz says:
    @Triteleia Laxa

    300 military personnel is not “cover”. It is a prime target for surveillance.

    US citizens can easily visit China whenever. The very least likely time for the US to release a virus would be when there were 300 of their own military personnel there, being surveiled intensively.

    Over 9,300 military officers from more than 140 countries were in Wuhan competing in the World Military Games, and presumably doing a good deal of tourist exploration and sightseeing during that period. It seems to me that would provide absolutely perfect cover for a couple of American operatives to release the virus at various locations in the city of 11 million.

    Assuming the operatives were American special forces, they could have easily been brought in as part of the American contingent of 300 military personnel. Under normal circumstances, Chinese security might be better able to detect and monitor the suspicious arrival of special forces military personnel who claimed to be visiting Chinese as “tourists.”

    Your argument against this simple scenario seems to be that it was too obvious and too easy. So when a Gambino capo tells his friends he’s meeting with the rival Genoveses and then is found shot to death the next day, you would argue that the Genoveses must be innocent because it’s “too obvious.”

    • Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
  205. @Ron Unz

    The Chinese would be looking at who those 300 military personnel were, much more closely than they would ordinary tourists.

    It would therefore be completely stupid for the US to try to hide special forces operatives among them, to try to release a virus.

    A good rule for intelligence work is that your head should not be “above the parapet”; but every single one of that group would have had their head about as far above the parapet as it is possible to be.

    There is no way that they would ever be used in the role you ascribe.

  206. chrimony says:
    @Iris

    Italy is home to the largest Chinese diaspora in Europe, officially circa 350,000 people, but in reality much more, considering that thousands overstay their visas. Of those, the majority is concentrated in the region of Milan and Venice, the two principal hotbeds of earliest Covid19 outbreaks in Italy. So cross-border contamination is much plausible.

    In other words, a sane explanation for why it hit Italy hard early, which had nothing to do with a targeted “bioweapon” attack.

    More importantly, Italy is the only European country to have broken ranks with the NATO-led world order, and has officially joined China’s “Belt and Road Initiative“, a transformational economic and geopolitical project that will re-shape the world. So deliberate contamination by the US NeoCon crazies would be equally plausible.

    You mean even more stupid, because now instead of just targeting Iran and China, you also targeted a country in Europe with a virus. Using a virus as a bioweapon is an incredibly stupid idea, and even military brass know this.

    The most obvious explanation is staring Ron Unz and his supporters right in the face: that dangerous gain-of-function research on coronaviruses was occurring at a Wuhan under lax security, the epicenter was Wuhan, viruses have been known to escape from such laboratories — the source was likely the Wuhan lab. And if you really want to drag the US into this — congratulations, they initiated and funded this research in the US before funding it in Wuhan! But instead of screaming at the top of their lungs that this insanely dangerous research needs to be sensibly shut down, everywhere, they insist it’s the sole responsibility of neocons as part of a shadowy bioweapon attack on China and Iran. Give me a break.

    • Disagree: Schuetze, GomezAdddams
    • Replies: @Iris
  207. gay troll says:
    @Ron Unz

    Based upon Trump’s behavior, I very much doubt that he was part of the plot

    Based on the behavior of a career con artist and long time television actor? A man whose affiliations include the World Wrestling Federation? A man who ran on and based his presidency on a “trade” war with China, but flip flopped on nearly every other issue? You think this man was not capable of ordering a virus release in Wuhan and then acting like he knew nothing about it? You might as well be judging the behavior of Andy Kaufman.

    • Agree: Harold Smith
    • Replies: @Getaclue
  208. Sean says:

    Am American cabal’s bioweapon attack would be intended to hit Beijing to set China back substantially. To have the pandemic begining in Wuhan and yet still decimate Beijing it would have had to be extremely transmissible, making a global pandemic inevitable. The scientists creating the virus would realise that, and only they have the knowledge. I cannnot see anyone in special for of the CIA obeying such an odder, even if they thought it was genuine.

    It seems to me that would provide absolutely perfect cover for a couple of American operatives to release the virus at various locations in the city of 11 million.

    The reason for attacking Wuhan would have been to male it look like an escape from Bat Lady’s lab, and that alone.

    So the virus probably came from a lab. But the question now becomes “which lab?” Just as the MSM had promoted the totally unsubstantiated belief that Covid was natural…

    Coming from lab and being a natural virus are not mutually exclusive possibilities. Bat Lady had 15,000 samples in her Wuhan lab, and live bats too. Maybe she found she was looking for.

    A few weeks afterward, the third major world outbreak began in Northern Italy, but 200,000 Chinese live and work in that region, and many had just returned from their Lunar New Year holiday in China. The Chinese population in Qom is absolutely negligible by comparison. The Italian outbreak makes perfectly logical sense while the one in Qom does not.

    Can’t have it both ways. It would only take one patient zero, and an Iranian that took a trip to to China on government business would on return be in contact with the elite. Iranian men kiss each other (as do Italians) and there is also the “Tarof”.

    A Nationwide Survey on Some Hygienic Behaviors of Iranian …https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov › articles › PMC4192768
    by M Sadinejad · 2014 · Cited by 11 — [4] Inadequate sanitary conditions and poor hygiene practices play major roles in the increased burden of communicable diseases in low- and middle-income…

    • Agree: Dnought, Brás Cubas
    • Replies: @utu
    , @Mulga Mumblebrain
  209. Ron Unz says:

    Incidentally, for those who prefer a different format, here’s a link to my hour long presentation of the biowarfare hypothesis on Kevin Barrett’s podcast last month:

    And here’s a link to a freely downloadable eBook, containing my four main articles on the subject:

    https://www.unz.com/ebook/covid-catastrophe-ebook/

  210. utu says:
    @Ron Unz

    “it was a miracle that his self-published piece overturned the entire conventional narrative on the origins of Covid” – I think that there were some forces working behind the scene. January 4th Baker’s article in NY Magazine did not get traction because of Capitol riots and because Trump was still in the office but it was pretty much equivalent to Wade’s article. Vanity Fair article shows that there was a concerted effort by some people accumulating arguments (not evidence because they had none) in favor of the lab leak. Some of them were pretty high up in microbiologists “establishment” (like Ralph Baric) and with administration/political connections like David Asher who recruited Steven Quay to do epidemiological and microbiological analysis while not being an expert in either.

    Your reservations about Yuri Deigin were correct and Wade’s endorsement should not change it. Deigin’s argument for man-made origin of the virus is the alleged uniqueness of furin cleavage which many scientists do not consider as that unique and Deigin’s connecting it to WIV is via Shi Zhengli because he saw her actions in January 2020 as part of a cover-up when she pulled from her sleeve the virus precursor RaTG13 that Deigin insinuated it could have been a fake digitally composed sequence.

    That the narrative was overturned from what was considered officially true in 2020 is not a result of new evidence or new papers by reputable scientists who haven’t touched the subject yet but by the same stories that floated from the day one (some Israeli spy, some Czech microbiologist, some Russian microbiologist, kooky French Nobel laureate) that in 2021 were propelled to the forefront by political expediency for the same crowd who wanted conflict with China just as Trump did but not under Trump.

    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
  211. VICB3 says:
    @Anonymous

    If you can’t attack the message, then you attack the messenger.

    One of the oldest tricks in the book.

    I’m siding with Unz on this one, and have done so for some time. There are just too many coincidences to ignore, not that anyone ever should. And any good detective would point out the inconsistencies and contradictions of the mainstream narrative, and then conclude that somebody was hiding a good deal of the real story.

    Cui Bono? The Zionists – Bolton? – looking to take down Iran? The Dispensationalist Nutjobs – Pompeo, Pence? – wanting The Rapture? The self-important New World Order folks with their Bilderburg meetings et al? Other similarly well positioned fanatics with deep pockets. Let your imagination run wild and free on this one.

    Regardles, something stinks about the story, first the bat soup natural origin version, and the now current commie Chinese lab leak scenario. The anomalies aren’t lining up with the truth.

    As for Fauci (and Gates) being thrown under the bus, they’re just convenient scapegoats, protected and subsidized until now but no longer useful. (How many backdoors does the MS OS have in it, and who allowed them to be put there, and why?) Look for the former to be suicided while the latter will suffer an unfortunate accident, perhaps a crash of his private jet. In both cases, they’ll be silenced before they tell-all the secrets and subsidies that have propped up their careers and fortunes.

    (Their deaths will also serve as a warning to the rest of the tech industry players who’ve been similarly favoured.)

    Just a thought.

    VicB3

    • Replies: @Joe Levantine
  212. Dnought says:
    @Marcali

    It is nowhere near 4,622 km from the western border of China to the eastern border of Iran. More like a third of that distance or less.

  213. “…if the president didn’t approve the attack, I consider it a “rogue operation.”

    Wow!!

    Hell, there are folks in Washington who don’t even know where the hell Nevada IS, let alone what the hell goes on there.

    The nature of effective security protocols DEMANDS that those at the top have no clue what the hell those in the middle and at the bottom are doing – think: many-headed Hydra.

    If president’s had to approve half of what the government does they’d quit the first day in disgust.

    EVERYTHING done by the CIA, NSA, DIA, ONI, DOD, State Dept., etc. is a “rogue operation” – by definition.

    Dirty tricks are in their charters – in their blood; they don’t have to “ask” to tip over some country.

    Once a “license-to-kill” is issued, it’s non-revocable. Those “approvals” went out with Teddy Roosevelt.

  214. Mevashir says:
    @Anonymous

    A couple of years ago I wrote a long expose of the horrible quality of life and corruption in “the ME’s only democracy”. This thoughtful article immediately elicited eloquent ziokike rebuttals that consisted of sheer character assassination. A favorite accusation of the hasbarists is that any critic of isNOTreal is “attention seeking.” (As though our entire western culture that idolizes celebrities film stars and athletes isn’t entirely based on narcissistic attention seeking. But those idols tend to favor the ziokike agenda so they are given a free pass.)

    At any rate, this kind of rank smear is the MO of the ziokike trolls. Instead of dealing rationally with the information presented they try desperately to discredit the person presenting the evidence. It’s all smoke and mirrors, like the ziokikes who were caught immediately after 9/11/2001 with a trunkload of explosives and thousands of dollars of cash and other incriminating items and immediately told the NY police that “we’re not your problem; the Palestinians are your problem.” Ziokikes excel at bullying shaming and smearing.

    I say all this to urge Mr Unz to censor these kinds of BS comments. They do nothing but sully the thread and waste bandwidth. It’s your website and you may censor according to any standards you might wish to impose. It serves no public good to allow the ziokike scheissshmearers to have any kind of platform, even anonymously.

    • Thanks: Nancy
  215. America is doing covid bioweapon research in Galveston and Chapel Hill too so it is possible it came from America. How much of the media’s and big tech’s censoring is a result of hiding the biowarfare attack instead of Trump derangement syndrome?

    The recent Vanity Fair article makes it clear that some people in the government didn’t want American bioweapon development programs to get bad press. CTRL+F and look for “U.S. Army” without quotes in the following article. https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/06/the-lab-leak-theory-inside-the-fight-to-uncover-covid-19s-origins

    Based on reported infections and deaths at Johns Hopkin’s map it is conceivable that Iran was a target, but their precious Israel has had ~8 times the cases than China has had and ~1,500 more deaths. Vastly smaller population and racialist say they are the smartest people on Earth along with the East Asians. If it was a bioweapon that America intentionally released then they should have known that the virus wasn’t as infectious against East Asians or they were idiots. Biden is planning to expand the war on terror pogrom to include Americans so it is conceivable that Americans were a target. https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

    I think the smoking gun though is the US government’s awareness of the virus in November 2019. That needs an explanation. Are they psychic, was it because they released it, or is it because they had access to China’s secret knowledge of the outbreak. If you are going to fight another nuclear power, fighting it directly is suicide. Bioweapons make sense. If this is a bioweapon then so far the arsonist has gotten away with almost 4 million reported deaths globally. That is a lot. If it is a bioweapon attack, was this just a trial (dress rehearsal) or the real thing? They should have data now on why it didn’t work well on China, and how to modify it to get past solely China and Russia’s vaccines if that is possible. Then they could say that America’s vastly superior vaccines were more effective when Corona-chan has an intentional infectious mutation that gets around China and Russia’s vaccines.

  216. utu says:
    @Sean

    The reason for attacking Wuhan would have been to male it look like an escape from Bat Lady’s lab, and that alone.

    and then minimizing the threat by politicians like Boris and Trump so it would spread all over the world and failing at policies to contain it in the West to make people suffer enough to build up the grievance capital against China.

    • Replies: @Sean
  217. Skeptikal says:
    @Chris Moore

    Did miss it, or did Ron say where he actually thinks the virus or whatever it is originated?

    Was it brought to China by those who infiltrated the Military Games?

    Where did they get it, and how did they transport it to China, and in what form?

  218. @anonym25

    Gee, if one was planning something like this, they might start with a couple strains; one more lethal to shoot at “the enemy,” and another less lethal to build a bit of natural immunity back home if the more lethal strain found its way back home. The less lethal one would still be lethal enough to kill the old and most infirm, but that’s a feature, not a bug, as those folks are useless eaters. That would have been the end of discussion if this was a government affair advised by Mitre or RAND.

    I imagine the original plotters didn’t fully grasp what a goldmine they were about to set into emotion until somebody in the Davos crowd got wind of this and started wargaming the potential opportunities with things like Event 201 to work out how the oligarchs could use it to carve up the world.

  219. Skeptikal says:
    @JasonT

    Agree. Unz does not go far enough in his speculations.

    There are too many aspects that he just ignores, as if they were irrelevant or, worse, “conspiracy theories.” That label is the most frightening thing to Mr Unz. At the same time, it is the weapon he is most likely to use against those who prod him to start taking next steps.

    All aspects are relevant to each other, and intertwined.

    • Agree: JasonT
  220. sally says:
    @Realist

    Trump had four years to give the ballet back to those the USA governs. Trump made not one move in that direction.

    Each eligible voting citizens gets to caste but three votes in the general elections. None of those three votes can be caste to elect the President or the VP, Why? Because the president and VP are article II of the Constitution of the USA, and such article II persons. as opposed to the Senate and the House which are Article I persons, according the constitution of the USA cannot be elected by the citizen voters. Article II persons are elected by the Electoral College.

    Article II persons are elected by the electoral college. not the voting public.
    Each eligible to vote Citizen of the USA is entitled to vote for the 2 senators from his or her state, and
    Each eligible to vote Citizen of the USA is entitled to vote for the member of house of representative from his or her state. That three votes are each to elected Article I persons. 0 votes for Article II persons.

    I agree Trump was a Deep South Puppet unable to respond appropriately to the strings ..

    • Replies: @Realist
  221. @Anonymous

    Is there any creature, whether it be liver-fluke, bacterium, protozoon or dung beetle as loathsome as a brainwashed Yankee Doodle dipshit?

  222. mcohen says:

    Ron is at it.again

  223. Iris says:
    @chrimony

    Sorry dear, but this comment brings absolutely nothing to the discussion. Your thesis is the MSM baseline. You are just “explaining” for the umpteenth time the idiocies already re-hashed thousands of time on Fox News, the UK’s The Daily Mail and The Sun, and other “beacons” of the West now-defunt intellectual life.

    Your thesis is that, since the outbreak was first detected in Wuhan, and since Wuhan possesses a BSL4 Lab, then the two must be mandatorily linked. Such infantile causality is well fitted for the lobotomised; even retards with just a couple of functioning neurons should get the message. Except you are on the wrong forum.

    But instead of screaming at the top of their lungs that this insanely dangerous research needs to be sensibly shut down, everywhere, they insist it’s the sole responsibility of neocons as part of a shadowy bioweapon attack on China and Iran. Give me a break.

    No. The simple, sensible and safe way for US research authorities to exculpate themselves from any hypothetical error made at the WIV would have been to simply state the true facts.

    They remotely funded a valuable Health research, as did other Western nations, they did not manage it in the field, so cannot be held responsible for any wrongdoing happening as a result.

    But according to you, instead of stating this genuine and totally exonerating excuse, they would have gone to the extreme, dangerous and suicidal length of inventing a biological attack carried out by military in their own camp, as a diversion?
    Even the standard retard with just two functioning neurons will find this hard to believe.

    • Agree: emersonreturn
    • Replies: @chrimony
    , @Brás Cubas
  224. Truth says:
    @Ron Unz

    I tried to tell you months ago, Ronino, the Piefaces are going to strike back at the honkees for what you are doing to them, I’m not talking about Covid either…

    https://worldstar.com/video.php?v=wshhf0W53kU9GpvWaslc

  225. Ron Unz says:
    @chrimony

    Quotes from the Reuter’s article in italics:

    “Qom, among Iran’s most important cities, has close links to China and is home to many Chinese. Iran’s health minister has publicly said that the virus is believed to have arrived from China by a merchant from Qom, who died of the virus.”

    You’re making yourself look ridiculous.

    According to Wikipedia, Iran has a total Chinese population of 2000-3000, one of the smallest in the world, and I’d assume that the overwhelming majority are concentrated in the huge city of Tehran rather than in the Holy City of Qom:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_people_in_Iran

    If back in 2019, some experienced epidemiologists had been told that a disease epidemic, whether natural or caused by a lab-leak, had broken out in Wuhan, China, and were asked to predict where it would next randomly spread, I think Iran and Qom would have probably been towards the bottom of the global list, let alone the Iranian parliament and political elites. Iran’s population is 0.004% Chinese.

    Meanwhile, Italy has a population of more than 300,000 Chinese, heavily concentrated in Lombardy, and Spain has around 150,000, and those were the (very plausible) locations of the third and fourth major outbreaks:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_people_in_Italy
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_people_in_Spain

    Since Italy has 100x more Chinese than Iran, isn’t it a little “odd” that a random Chinese lab-leak would reach the latter so much sooner?

    Reuters article: “And, when the authorities did become aware of domestic cases of the flu-like virus in early January, they didn’t announce the news until weeks later, out of concern that releasing detailed information would unsettle the public ahead of parliamentary elections scheduled for February 21, according to a senior official with direct knowledge of the matter.”

    That’s very interesting. I don’t think it’s ever been solidly established exactly when the Iranian outbreak began, and I’d always assumed it was around mid-February. But according to that Reuters report, it probably began in early January.

    So America assassinated Iran’s top military commander Gen. Soleimani on January 3rd, and probably just a few days later, Iran was hit with a deadly, mysterious viral illness. What a strange coincidence…

    And thanks for the tip!

  226. @Sean

    I see, unsurprised, that you use the racist, misogynist, denigatory ‘Bat Lady’ instead of her name. Your type never deviate from the core hatreds and contempts, do you. And Iranians are dirty, unsanitary, beasts, too.

    • Replies: @Sean
  227. @Marcali

    I think Tehran is about 1400 kms from XinJiang.

  228. @Ron Unz

    ‘…according to a senior official with direct knowledge of the matter.’ Translating from the presstitute gibberish-the latest Official Lie, regurgitated by a presstitute vermin without hesitation. Its job depends on it.

  229. Ron Unz says:
    @Marcali

    Iran-China distance 4622 km.
    London-Tehran distance 4398 km.
    A Londoner would say Tehran is on the other side of the world. And would be right.

    Thanks.

    And if we’re going to be absolutely technical about it, the distance between Wuhan, China and Qom, Iran is 5,829 km.

  230. gay troll says:
    @Ron Unz

    So America assassinated Iran’s top military commander Gen. Soleimani on January 3rd, and probably just a couple of days later, Iran was hit with a deadly, mysterious viral illness. What a strange coincidence…

    And who authorized the assassination of Soleimani?

    • Agree: Sean
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  231. @Ron Unz

    Iran’s authorities blamed an Iranian merchant from Qom for bringing it back. That was clear in his quote. Not a Chinese resident of Iran.

    Perhaps don’t say that “someone is making themselves look ridiculous”, while getting what they wrote completely wrong.

    • Agree: Brás Cubas
    • Replies: @anon
  232. @utu

    I hate to (kind of) disagree with you, because your comments are always top quality, but, you know, sometimes intelligence people do… intelligence work.

    • Replies: @utu
  233. chrimony says:
    @Ron Unz

    You’re making yourself look ridiculous.

    Coming from you, I’ll take that as a compliment. You think the US did the most idiotic thing ever, and used a virus as a bioweapon against Iran and China, under the “cover” of 300 US soldiers in China, which then more than likely brought the virus back to the US and Canada. And you believe this instead of a lab leak at the Wuhan Institute of Virology, where novel coronaviruses were being engineered in Wuhan, the epicenter of the outbreak. And rather than lend your voice to shut down highly dangerous research, you’d rather try to drag people into a stupid conspiracy theory that takes the heat off of people like Fauci and Peter Daszak. Un-fucking-believable.

    It’s one thing to throw an idea out there, but it’s another to keep peddling it despite all the flaws that bury the Occam’s Razor key to this whole fiasco. You have no shame.

    According to Wikipedia, Iran has a total Chinese population of 2000-3000, one of the smallest in the world, and I’d assume that the overwhelming majority are concentrated in the huge city of Tehran rather than in the Holy City of Qom

    Do those numbers include Chinese workers? I guess you know better than Iran’s health ministry then:

    ““Since those infected in Qom had no contact with the Chinese… the source is probably Chinese workers who work in Qom and have travelled to China,” she added.” https://eurasiantimes.com/chinese-workers-suspected-of-bringing-coronavirus-in-iran-neighboring-balochistan-on-high-alert/

    Also from the Wikipedia article you reference:

    “Most modern Chinese expatriates work on construction or other engineering projects; a few run import/export companies or other small businesses. Large-scale investment projects are also becoming more common; businessmen from Zhejiang began building Iran’s first Chinese trade complex in 2006. The 330,000 square-metre site in the south of the country, located five kilometres from Khorramshahr and twenty kilometres from the Iraqi border, is expected to contain 1,500 businesses and cost RMB600 million to complete.”

    If back in 2019, some experienced epidemiologists had been told that a disease epidemic, whether natural or caused by a lab-leak, had broken out in Wuhan, China, and were asked to predict where it would next randomly spread, I think Iran and Qom would have probably been towards the bottom of the global list, let alone the Iranian parliament and political elites.

    Chinese workers and religious practices (gatherings and kissing shrines). You never address these.

    That’s very interesting. I don’t think it’s ever been solidly established exactly when the Iranian outbreak began, and I’d always assumed it was around mid-February. But according to that Reuters report, it probably began in early January.

    And it probably began in Wuhan in September or October. They were welding people into their apartments by December. No matter how you slice it, it hit Iran full force two months after Wuhan. Why the delay?

    So America assassinated Iran’s top military commander Gen. Soleimani on January 3rd, and probably just a couple of days later, Iran was hit with a deadly, mysterious viral illness. What a strange coincidence…

    If the government was the target, why did it take until February for them to start dropping? Occam’s Razor says they caught it from the virus circulating among the populace, during an election season. But you have a hammer, and will continue pounding screws, won’t you?

    • Agree: Incitatus, Brás Cubas
    • Replies: @Hughes
    , @Ron Unz
  234. @anon

    the mRNA degrades rapidly and the spike proteins do not leave the cells the mRNA enters.

    Right. So all those side effects we’ve been hearing about were just achy shoulder muscles…

    Why do you sound exactly like an MSM fact-checker?

  235. chrimony says:
    @Iris

    Sorry dear, but this comment brings absolutely nothing to the discussion.

    Sorry moron, but your comment brings nothing to the discussion. It just continues peddling a stupid conspiracy theory that flies in the face of the most obvious facts on the ground. You’d rather turn a blind eye to insanely dangerous research (in which both the US and China share culpability) just so you could keep your precious conspiracy theory that blames the US alone, and leaves the people responsible for the research untouched.

    No. The simple, sensible and safe way for US research authorities to exculpate themselves from any hypothetical error made at the WIV would have been to simply state the true facts.

    They remotely funded a valuable Health research, as did other Western nations, they did not manage it in the field, so cannot be held responsible for any wrongdoing happening as a result.

    It wasn’t “valuable” research, it was insanely dangerous research that was at one point prohibited for good reason. But Fauci argued it was “valuable” and funded it through a proxy group to spread this research to China. That’s why Fauci and Peter Daszak were so intent on burying the lab leak theory. They have blood on their hands.

    • Agree: Getaclue, Dnought
    • Troll: Iris
    • Replies: @Harold Smith
  236. RobinG says:

    A musical interlude….

    Chinese youtuber Li Jingjing exposes suppression of Uyghur culture in Xinjiang… NOT!

    Challenge a young Uyghur music talent to play all traditional instruments in Hami, Xinjiang

    • Replies: @Tdstype2
  237. @utu

    That the narrative was overturned from what was considered officially true in 2020 is not a result of new evidence or new papers by reputable scientists who haven’t touched the subject yet

    I have my doubts they will ever touch it because it appears that at least some of them have a conflict of interest. As for new evidence, you are probably right, in what regards the cause for the shift in the accepted discourse, but what do you think of this recent paper from Deigin and others?

    Unexpected novel Merbecovirus discoveries in agricultural sequencing datasets from Wuhan, China
    https://arxiv.org/abs/2104.01533

    • Replies: @utu
  238. I translated some conclusions in Ron Unz’s article into German and tried to share it on German social networks. I discovered that all links to this website are blocked in Germany. That is weird, I thought. So I obscured the obvious links with aliases from tiny-url, bit still the networks would not accept me sharing those links. If human beings such as Ron Unz, or websites and speech in general are PROHIBITED on a global, planetary scale, than it seems obvious that we are living in a global, planetary Tyranny. Just saying.

  239. Anonymous[144] • Disclaimer says:
    @gay troll

    Pompeo, obviously. You know that.

    • Replies: @gay troll
  240. Sean says:
    @utu

    As far as I am aware Xi is not the US Deep State’s Manchurian candidate and so it would be understood a bioweapon operation against China had to dupe China into thinking that, whatever had happened, Americans were not responsible. China has a powerful army, a proxy in Kim (who has US soldiers in SK in his sights) , and several hundred nuclear weapons. For reasons that ought to be obvious, faking a natural spread from Wuhan was essential to minimise the risk of Xi retaliating with military force or provocations. Yet such a seemingly natural spread from Wuhan would provide time for countermeasures to prevent the infection reaching Beijing . To have the pandemic begining in Wuhan and yet still decimate Beijing, it would have had to be extremely transmissible making a global pandemic inevitable.
    Furthermore:-

    https://supchina.com/2020/03/12/the-chinese-migrant-workers-who-power-israeli-construction/

    Chinese workers began going to Israel in the 1990s in the wake of the First Palestinian uprising, or Intifada, fulfilling a severe labor shortage in Israel’s construction industry. Today, Chinese workers represent the largest proportion of foreign workers in construction in the country, numbering around 6,000. They work in various projects, mostly employed by Israeli firms.

    Neocons dual citizens knew that.

    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
    , @utu
  241. Realist says:
    @sally

    I agree Trump was a Deep South Puppet unable to respond appropriately to the strings ..

    I believe Trump did as the Deep State commanded and expected.

  242. @Sean

    The Chinese would have known that it was an American bio-warfare attack, because fools like I know it, and the Chinese have far more extensive intelligence resources. But, with the epidemic suppressed in China, there was no need to retaliate in any way, as such would lead to annihilatory war. The Chinese have suffered US subversion and sabotage and relentless Western hate propaganda for decades, so they know how to keep their equanimity with rabid psychopaths. As the final US collapse is at hand, the Chinese know that they just have to wait, and that things will be extraordinarily dangerous as the USA enters its hydrophobic phase.

    • Replies: @RobinG
    , @Skeptikal
  243. @Thorsten J. Pattberg

    Absolutely. Elite totalitarianism in the West is near complete, and yet the political psychopaths still shriek about ‘Our Moral Values’ and ‘Free Societies’. The crack-up boom in Western elite psychopathology, like Jung’s ‘psychic epidemic’ of the 20s and 30s, mirrors the same process in train in economics. A final, frenetic, blow-out, before the debacle. All but psychopaths have been purged from Western political, media and business elites over recent decades, and they cannot handle too much reality.

  244. gatobart says:
    @Thorsten J. Pattberg

    I have always wondered why so many, specially English speaking , people use that “just saying” bit at the end of their otherwise sensible and apparently strong statements. Why would they do that…? It is that after thinking about it they aren’t even sure of what they said, or wrote…? I say this because I feel kind of cheated, like I wasted my time reading what they wrote because if they feel that insecure about that, why am I reading it at all…? It sounds so wishy -washy, so Charlie Brown. In my book you don’t have to give excuses or feeling uncomfortable after making a frank statement. And I’m NOT just saying.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  245. @Ron Unz

    One important point he made was that high lethality was often counter-productive in a bioweapon since debilitating or hospitalizing large numbers of individuals may impose far greater economic costs on a country than a biological agent which simply inflicts an equal number of deaths.”

    Cue in the ‘anti-personnel’ mine. Meant to maim people, not armor.

  246. RobinG says:
    @Mulga Mumblebrain

    The Chinese would have known that it was an American bio-warfare attack, because fools like I know it

    Fools like you (your words!) don’t even know what know means. You speculate, suspect, conjecture, etc., but most certainly don’t know. Or do tell, if you were part of the team involved? The best Ron has to offer is the DIA report. Interesting, but not proof. Then alot of correlation begging to be causation.

  247. Mevashir says:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Institute_for_Biological_Research
    https://www.haaretz.com/amp/1.5011051
    https://m.jpost.com/health-science/what-is-the-secretive-institute-that-found-an-antibody-to-the-coronavirus-627133/amp
    http://www.armagedon.org.il/ness_ziona_english.htm
    https://www.nonproliferation.org/wp-content/uploads/npr/83cohen.pdf

    Most sabotage actions against the nation of Iran have been joint ventures between amer-wreakin’ and ziokikestan. The latter has a huge biowarfare research program at a place called ness tziona [the miracle of zion, yeah right same old same old of mass poisoning the goyim].

    So if the covid outbreak in Iran was a biowarfare operation, it stands to reason that the Jukes were also involved. That might explain why they were so prepared for the mass lockdown of their society and mass inoculation of their fellow ziodupes.

    Covid-19 forms a Hebrew numerological expression for “The hand of God was heavy”, alluding to the kike predilection to invoke bloody retribution and vengeance from their deity.

    I’d like to see Ron and Shamir dig a little bit deeper into this pile of Judeo-Christian geopolitical horsesh*t.

    • Replies: @Mevashir
  248. Incitatus says:

    Conspiracies, conspiracies, conspiracies!

    What, bark stripped to the vital trunk, is revealed?

    “Given our ongoing military and geopolitical confrontation with China, America seems the likely source of the [Covid-19 on China] attack…“

    What sanguine proof! Seat the grand jury! Call the witnesses!

    If Covid-19 was engineered and maliciously spread, there are many ignored potential authors. Why not accuse Russia (first-class bioweapons capability, who would profit most from a China-USA conflict)? Yet Russia’s nowhere in Unz’s calculation. Wonder why.

    Titillation atop titillation! Crackpot conspiracy theories upon crackpot conspiracy theories!

    Hopefully UR is subsidized by DARPA as a deep state nut farm.

    • Troll: Mevashir
    • Replies: @utu
  249. Bill says:
    @Anonymous

    If Ron isn’t paying you, he should be.

    I don’t think Ron has a particularly strong argument, but, holy shit, your comment makes me want to look again.

  250. Mevashir says:
    @Mevashir

    Another one of those strange coincidences that Ron focuses on is last year when Pompeo went to ziokikestan and delivered an ultimatum telling them to sever their commercial relations with China, during his visit the Chinese Ambassador to ziokikestan was found dead in his apartment. He was only in his forties and had no known health problems.

    And we thought the Italian mafia was dangerous! The kosher-nostra speak loudly and wield a very small [micronukes and microbiological agents] zayin-stick.

  251. @Mustapha Mond

    To have solid scientific proof of a new disease takes time. To be suspicious that one could exist takes little time.

    In December 2019, I warned a friend not to take a trip to Vietnam in January, 2020 because of the various short, vague stories about disease in Wuhan that appeared in the Global Times (the Chinese Communist newspaper) as well as Western media. He cancelled his trip. He knew damn well I had no solid evidence or secret contacts. Suspicion isn’t proof but there are times when caution is suggested.

    I suspect the CIA had a similar opinion. Why would I think they were dumber than me? Why would they be less alert? I believe that being evil is a good qualification for joining the CIA but what’s that got to do with the price of fish? I have no reason for thinking CIA employees are unintelligent so I doubt that they’d support an attack on Iran or China that would obviously spread and be defended against laughably poorly by all NATO countries and the rest of the world.

    It’s like the Chinese “over the top” response. The rest of the world made a ridiculously feeble and expensive response. The Chinese made the sensible, lowest cost response. Anybody with a brain in their head would have predicted that. Who’d be so stupid that they’d make an identical attack simultaneously against their enemy’s greatest strength and their own greatest weakness? [email protected]

    • Agree: Godfree Roberts
    • Replies: @anon
  252. TheMoon says:
    @Anonymous

    No, I mean the idea of doing things like this to get everyone pissed at China.

  253. utu says:
    @Brás Cubas

    “…sometimes intelligence people do… intelligence work…” – Yes, absolutely. Steven Quay can be correct. All what I was trying to convey is that he was recruited by David Asher to prepare the case for the ‘prosecution’. He was not an independent expert hired by the ‘court’. In fact he was not an expert in the area on which he helped to build the case against the WIV. That David Asher did not or could not find a real expert can be telling. As Vanity Fair article tells us Ralph Baric challenged the validity of Quay’s argument about the improbability of the furin cleavage site. Then after the Wade’s article appeared Quay and his collaborator who happens to be physicist not microbiologist have their editorial published in WSJ which obviously is widely reported all over the world. What we were witnessing has markings of operation conducted by somewhat amateurish “intelligence people” who were tasked to cause a major shift of the narrative. IMO it is likely that Wade was a part of that operation. Wade was needed because Baker’s article in the NY Magazine had a bad luck with timing.

    So let’s recapitulated: the whole case is built on the blog of Yuri Deigin who is not associated with any scientific institution and on Steven Quay who is a cardiologist. There is no paper that would make a comprehensive and exhaustive study of furin cleavage natural vs. synthetic creation. The 2020 Segreto and Deigin paper is based on Deigin’s blog and while Segreto is associated with a university as a postdoc her contribution is not apparent. Their paper was criticized.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @Sean
  254. DaveE says:
    @Alfred

    It’s Called ‘Deep State Flypaper’.

    Get ready for a brawl. (((They))) have been preparing for a century, minimum.

  255. Getaclue says:
    @gay troll

    If Trump ordered it — it would have been leaked as everything else was leaked, it would have been an easy way then to get rid of him which is what they wanted for 4 years and tried by various methods — he didn’t have this much power — more like who ever was controlling Fauci did — and Trump definitely had zero control over him.

  256. @anon

    “The simplest explanation is true.”

    Agreed.
    And the simplest explanation is that there is no pandemic.
    It’s a hoax.

    • Agree: Alden, John Wear
    • Thanks: St-Germain
    • Replies: @Mevashir
  257. Sean says:
    @Mulga Mumblebrain

    There are bats in India, Nigeria and Brazil , and humans are encroaching into their environment, but China seems to have had more that its fair share of bad luck with SARs and the current global outbreak. In 2002 there was SAARs and now we have Covid-19, a global pandemic that started in of all places in the 1.4 billion population country that is China in the city of Wuhan . While SARS was natural it did not become an infection disease in a place where work on diseases like it was being done. Thousands of pigs in four factory farms came down and died with a SARS like disease in 2016, that happened in Qingyuan County in Guangdonan hour’s drive from where the SARS outbreak originated. So there can be diseases like SARS without human intervention.

    Shi Zhengl has been collecting pathogen samples from wild bat colonies since 2004. Her Wuhan institute was the world leader in finding and studying dangerous-to-humans coronaviruses inside bats living in caves located in remote regions. The Wuhan Institute of Virology expeditions were often disappointed in being unable to find any bats at all, and when they located them they had no coronaviruses. (they began using antibodies to the SARS virus which revealed that coronavirus in bats was seasonal). So it was a frustrating eleven years for her. But eventually she and colleagues found some bats with range of coronaviruses at an abandoned copper mineshaft where workers clearing accumulated bat guano had got sick and died, although they did not pass on the disease human to human. Actually it later transpired that it was a fungus growing on the guano that had made the workers sick.

    Anyway, having finally, finally found an interesting colony of bats with a range of coronaviruses, they began five years of swabbing the wild bats and takin the sample back to the Wuhan institute of Shi Zhengl. There were a total 15,000 samples taken. The outbreak starting in Wuhan in such propinquity greatly ads to the plausibility of a non engineered natural virus that was one of those sampled by Shi being the origin of the pandemic. Shi herself admits she did work with bat coronaviruses and human lung cells in a petri dish and was able to produces SARS-like diseases in mice; quite possibly humanized mice.

    One might wonder if she was serial passaging through lab animals or cell cultures and in effect doing gain of function that transformed a virus just out of a bat into one with an extraordinary degree of human–human transmissibility that it never would have got by a natural process. Moreover she had live bats in her lab, this was vehemently denied by Peter Daszak, but is now known to be true. An individual bat infected with multiple coronavirus strains can lead to the production of new viruses. So the research going on at Shi’s institute would have been a perfectly plausible way for the virus to arise and right out of the gate posses an exceptional ability to move between humans; what is needed for it to become a true pandemic and kill millions as SARS in 2002 did not. Robert Redfield considers that almost unparalleled transmissibility a very telling feature of the Covid-19 pathogen, and it is not one that SARS had. Lipkin had been warning China about the wet markers for a decade.

  258. anon[389] • Disclaimer says:
    @Triteleia Laxa

    Depending on who was reporting it.

    Iran Knows Who to Blame for the Virus: America and Israel

    https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/03/19/iran-irgc-coronavirus-propaganda-blames-america-israel/

    • Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
  259. utu says:
    @Sean

    I took a fragment of your idea because the insatiable conspiracy ghosts that roam this place remain hungry on the diet of Ron Unz’s conspiracy theory. The insatiable conspiracy ghosts want to see the Great Reset Apocalypse tied to his theory because they can’t not think about the Great Reset Apocalypse. After all they have been conditioned for last 16 months by Mike Whitney, Israel Shamir and other dubious characters to whom Ron Unz provides this platform.

    Thus the theory would go as follows: Wuhan was seeded because the WIV was there. The objective of starting epidemic in Wuhan was not to paralyze and significantly damage China, as Ron Unz’s theory claims, but to blame China for the world wide pandemic. Thus the true objective was to have the pandemic spread all over and inflict significant material damage and more importantly damage to morale of people to accumulate resentment and grievance capital against China by the whole world.

    This would also explain why the response to the pandemic was so inadequate in the West, why instead of virus eradication strategy that has never been put on the table except for Taiwan and NZ both the UK and the US were toying with the criminal herd immunity strategy. They wanted in the words of Boris Johnson ‘let the bodies pile high’ in order to built huge grievance capital against China.

    The theory is independent of what China would have done. If China screws up and get really bad case of pandemic that would be great though it could risk China getting belligerent but if China responded as it did respond and stopped the pandemic quickly that would be better because it only would make people resent China more and make China look even more guilty.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  260. Ron Unz says:
    @utu

    What we were witnessing has markings of operation conducted by somewhat amateurish “intelligence people” who were tasked to cause a major shift of the narrative. IMO it is likely that Wade was a part of that operation. Wade was needed because Baker’s article in the NY Magazine had a bad luck with timing.

    I tend to agree that there was an organized operation by anti-China/pro-Trump elements to revive the lab-leak theory and have it replace the natural virus orthodoxy, which they’ve now succeeded in doing. This was possible after Trump was gone because the MSM hated him too much to admit he’d been right while he was in office.

    I also agree that if not for the unlucky timing of the Baker article, the whole thing probably would have happened in January, and I’d emphasized this in a couple of my articles.

    However, I think it’s extremely unlikely that Wade was involved. His article was rejected by every publication he approached, left and right alike, and surely those groups you mention would have had the clout to get him published somewhere. So after Wade’s excellent work punctured the existing propaganda-balloon, those groups you mention just quickly jumped on board and helped push things along. If Wade hadn’t come along, they probably would have used some other vehicle, perhaps the Vanity Fair article.

    After all, there actually seems very strong evidence that the virus was artificial, so with Trump gone, sooner or later the scientific reality would have come out.

    • Replies: @utu
  261. @Morton's toes

    Fine, speculate if you wish, but first address the experts’ published findings.

  262. anon[825] • Disclaimer says:

    Anybody understand what these three were doing?

    Harvard University Professor, Charles Lieber, and Two Chinese Nationals Charged in Three Separate China Related Cases

    Yanqing Ye, 29, a Chinese national, was charged in an indictment today with one count each of visa fraud, making false statements, acting as an agent of a foreign government and conspiracy. Ye is currently in China.

    Zaosong Zheng, 30, a Chinese national, was arrested on Dec. 10, 2019, at Boston’s Logan International Airport and charged by criminal complaint with attempting to smuggle 21 vials of biological research to China.

    https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/harvard-university-professor-and-two-chinese-nationals-charged-three-separate-china-related

    bjondo

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  263. @Herald

    Chinese officialdom generally tells the truth. And in this case, we have 17 Western experts matched with 17 Chinese experts telling us the same thing.

    My point is: why should we (who have zero expertise) ignore them and simply speculate?

    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
  264. anon[389] • Disclaimer says:
    @Donald A Thomson

    Who’d be so stupid that they’d make an identical attack simultaneously against their enemy’s greatest strength and their own greatest weakness?

    Not that I disagree with you. But someone already posted this before.

    The US ranked first in preparedness for epidemics or pandemics, and China ranked 51th.

    https://www.visualcapitalist.com/global-pandemic-preparedness-ranked/
    https://www.ghsindex.org/

  265. Mevashir says:
    @A little boy in the crowd

    I’ve been thinking along your lines as well. Consider some simple statistics. Let’s start with the claim that in the Spanish flu of 1918-1919, 50-100 million people died globally. And remember that the total global population was much smaller than it is today. Meaning that a much greater percentage of people died in that pandemic.

    I’ve read that the global mortality rate comes out to approximately 200,000 deaths per day or roughly two deaths per second. This comes out to about 6 million deaths globally per month or 70 million deaths globally per year. This is the normal mortality rate excluding pandemics and other forms of mass casualties.

    The United States has approximately 1/20th of the world’s population so divide the above numbers by 20 and you get approximately 300,000 deaths per month in the United States or 4 million deaths per year. If there have been 600,000 covid deaths in the United States this is less than a 20% increase in the normal mortality rate. It hardly seems to me that this qualifies as a true pandemic.

    It would be valuable to know the total mortality numbers in the United States in the last year. Because presumably many mortalities were incorrectly labeled as covid. See how similar this situation is to counting the total Jewish population attrition from before to after World War II?

    • Agree: St-Germain
    • Replies: @Alden
    , @Godfree Roberts
  266. utu says:
    @Incitatus

    “Yet Russia’s nowhere in Unz’s calculation.” – The sacred cow of TUR is Russia.

    • Troll: Mulga Mumblebrain
    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
  267. Hughes says:
    @chrimony

    The first thing the US should have done then is to search into whoever personnel the US sent to Wuhan and put them into quarantine instead of pretending they never have contingent of military personnel visited Wuhan just before an outbreaks happened.

    There’s also the fact that US MSM have served as US propaganda organ both aimed for global audience as well domestic is oddly enough has no interest to the story the Chinese side has come up with if anything to make sure the US keep their own country and military from getting infected by wuhan outbreak.

  268. Hughes says:
    @chrimony

    All international flights come first from Tehran. If there’s an outbreaks that naturally happen it’ll happen first in Tehran. Qom is IRGC holy grounds which wasn’t important internationally unless one look to hurt IRGC inside Iran. Similarly WIV BSL4 lableak theory would have to prove how lableak wouldn’t have became WIV labs the ground zero of Wuhan outbreak instead of Huanan wet market.

    • Agree: Iris
    • Replies: @anonym25
  269. Sean says:
    @utu

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7435492/
    Bioessays. 2020 Aug 12 : 2000091.
    doi: 10.1002/bies.202000091 [Epub ahead of print]
    PMCID: PMC7435492
    PMID: 32786014
    Might SARS‐CoV‐2 Have Arisen via Serial Passage through an Animal Host or Cell Culture?
    A potential explanation for much of the novel coronavirus’ distinctive genome

    {T]he artificial generations added by forced serial passage creates the artificial appearance of evolutionary distance… and is exactly what is found with SARS‐CoV‐2, which is distant enough from any other virus that it has been placed in its own clade. […] And just like influenza viruses are only able to preserve their furin cleavages in artificial environments since the heightened virulence they impart kills their hosts before they can propagate in a natural setting, based on the known taxonomy lineage B coronaviruses do not appear to be able to support furin cleavages in nature. […] SARS‐CoV‐2 may have gained its furin cleavage site the same way influenza viruses do—through the in vivo serial passage between the live hosts

    Shi says she did work with bat coronaviruses and human lung cells in a petri dish and was able to produces SARS-like diseases in mice; quite possibly humanized mice. If she was serial passaging through lab animals or cell cultures that might have transformed a virus just out of a bat into one with an extraordinary degree of human–human transmissibility that it never would have got by a natural process. Simon Wain-Hobson compared it to breed a dachshund out of wolves, meaning not something that would arise in nature.

    Baric is disqualified from expressing a opinion given his conflict of interest inasmuch he taught the Shi Zhengl’s people how to certain GoF in 2016. Simon Wain-Hobson. one of the world’s most eminent virologists, was extremely critical of Baric’s creation of a novel pathogen . Wain-Hobson thought it could escape and cause a pandemic. Anyway, sorry to keep saying this, but a lab leak could be of a natural virus, of which Shi had plenty at her institute. Does anyone seriously think her totalitarian government would permitted Shi to to own up if she knew Covid-19 was one of hers? Fauci is being supported by Biden, and the evidence of some sort of lab leak–if it ever existed–has been destroyed by now anyway. No one in government in China or America wants to know if science was responsible for all this.

  270. utu says:
    @Brás Cubas

    I am curious about the authors:

    Daoyu Zhang – Independent Genetics Researcher, Sydney, Australia
    Adrian Jones – Independent Bioinformatics Researcher, Melbourne, Australia
    Yuri Deigin – Youthereum Genetics Inc, Toronto, ON, Canada
    Karl Sirotkin – Karl Sirotkin LLC, Lake Mary, FL, 32746, USA
    Alejandro Sousa – Regional Hospital of Monforte, Lugo, Spain

    Karl and Dan Sirotkin published in Aug 2020
    Might SARS-CoV-2 Have Arisen via Serial Passage through an Animal Host or Cell Culture?
    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/bies.202000091

    and in Feb 2021
    Clarification regarding the likely leak of a novel viral strain from a Soviet laboratory
    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/bies.202100017

    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
  271. Ron Unz says:
    @chrimony

    It’s one thing to throw an idea out there, but it’s another to keep peddling it despite all the flaws that bury the Occam’s Razor key to this whole fiasco. You have no shame.

    Since your name wasn’t familiar to me, I assumed you were just a pro-Israel activist-type, but checking your commenter archive, you seem more anti-PRC, possibly Taiwanese. Either way, your views are hardly surprising. And you don’t seem very good at separating factual information from the opinions, propaganda, and speculation contained in news stories.

    Let’s focus on the facts:

    (1) After China, the next major Covid outbreak took place in Iran, with their political elites hit especially hard. All the subsequent major early outbreaks took place in countries and regions with enormous numbers of Chinese, who were the obvious vector, but Iran has an absolutely minuscule Chinese population.

    (2) Iran is honeycombed with American and Israeli spies and terrorist-cells, who for years have successfully carried out numerous high-profile assassinations and major acts of sabotage. The Iranian Covid outbreak seems to have begun almost exactly around the time that American assassinated Iran’s top military leader.

    None of that proves anything, but it would seem *extraordinarily* suspicious to any reasonable observer.

    Meanwhile, you note that Iran has important business and industrial relations with China. But that’s true of nearly all the countries in the world. For example, it’s been widely reported that a million Chinese currently work in Africa, yet there weren’t any early outbreaks there. There are more than 5 million Chinese-Americans, a good fraction of whom are China-born and retain close ties to that country, and they were an important early vector for our own outbreaks, yet these occurred long after the one in Iran.

    Is it plausible that thousands of Chinese in Iran would produce a huge early outbreak while millions of Chinese elsewhere did not?

    Since the Iranians were faced with a mysterious epidemic that had seemingly jumped from China, they searched for possible explanations at a time when no one was suggesting an American biowarfare attack. Meanwhile, China was facing severe domestic and international pressure at that point, and blaming the outbreak on travelers from China might have seriously damaged relations with one of their most crucial allies. So a government official claimed that their outbreak was due to an Iranian who visited China. That’s possible, but it’s also exactly the sort of cover-story they might have invented out of political necessity.

    And as it happens, by March some top Iranian leaders had begun suggesting that the Covid was a bioweapon and their outbreak was due to an attack by hostile powers such as America and Israel.

    https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Weaponized-How-rumors-about-COVID-19s-origins-led-to-a-narrative-arms-race.pdf#page=45

    Naturally, Western organizations denounced them as crazed lunatics for making such ridiculous claims.

    Both the early Iranian claims and the later ones seem speculative, and neither carries the weight of the undeniable factual evidence.

    • Replies: @chrimony
  272. @Anonymous

    I don’t see Ron Unz as an “angry man.”

    Driven….meticulous….high degree of intellectual integrity.

    You didn’t even try to refute Ron’s thesis or deal with any of the facts in the article.

    Note also that even though you shat all over the man, he went ahead and posted your dumbfuck comment…..this fact alone speaks VOLUMES regarding Ron Unz.

  273. Alden says:
    @Mevashir

    0.18 percent of the population of the USA has died of covid hoax as of June 2021 according to the CDC.

    According to the USA Census Bureau the population of the US as of June 2021 is 331, 449,281

    According to the CDC, as of June 2021 600,289
    people in America died of covid hoax.

  274. JamesinNM says:
    @Anonymous

    Perhaps it was a collaborative multinational NWO effort led by the U.S.

  275. chrimony says:
    @Ron Unz

    Since your name wasn’t familiar to me, I assumed you were just a pro-Israel activist-type, but checking your commenter archive, you seem more anti-PRC, possibly Taiwanese.

    If you want to put me in a box, I’m pro-truth and pro doing what is right. That’s why I’m willing to criticize the US just as much as China on this insanely dangerous gain-of-function research that was initiated by the US and funded by the US, and spread to China with US support. Do you not have anything to say about this research?

    I always thought the Wuhan lab being near the epicenter was highly suspicious, and of course I had heard the earlier stories about how the virus looked engineered, but I did not realize until the Wade article about the gain-of-function research that had already been going on for years, the funding, the furin cleaving site, the opinion of expert virologists, the years of warning about this exact scenario, etc. How anybody can look at what all has come out, and care only about a speculative “bioweapon” theory in the face of that, is unconscionable.

    Either way, your views are hardly surprising.

    In what manner? That I can see a screw and bring a screwdriver to a table, and not a hammer? When your article first came out with the bioweapon theory, I considered it plausible. But giving it further thought and the full weight of all the facts we know now, I consider it wildly speculative and dismissive of the Occam’s Razor solution, that it was a lab leak.

    And you don’t seem very good at separating factual information from the opinions, propaganda, and speculation contained in news stories.

    Are you looking in the mirror? Your entire theory is based on speculation, and fits in line with anti-US propaganda.

    Let’s focus on the facts:

    Oh, you want to focus on the facts that have already been hashed over? Ok, but let’s mention these facts first:

    o Wuhan was the epicenter of the novel bat coronavirus, both in time and place.

    o The Wuhan Institute of Virology was doing gain-of-function research on bat coronaviruses, which made these viruses more pathogenic to humans.

    o The research was not done under the highest safety levels.

    o Coronaviruses have leaked from labs before.

    o Several virology experts are under the opinion that the virus looked engineered for humans.

    o Unlike SARS and MERS, no intermediate or evolutionary hosts have been found.

    Should we a) first suspect a leak out of a Wuhan lab? Or b) go for a speculative theory that the US deliberately leaked a virus as a bioweapon under the “cover” of 300 US soldiers in China for military games (and said virus ended up going back to the US and Canada when these soldiers returned).

    (1) After China, the next major Covid outbreak took place in Iran

    It went to Italy at the same time. And it was two months later.

    with their political elites hit especially hard.

    Two months later. After having circulated in the population. During an election season. In a city where religious gatherings and the kissing of shrines are common. Do you care to explain the delay? Or acknowledge the circumstances that could have helped it spread?

    All the subsequent major early outbreaks took place in countries and regions with enormous numbers of Chinese, who were the obvious vector, but Iran has an absolutely minuscule Chinese population.

    You relied on residential numbers without knowing anything about non-residential workers.

    (2) Iran is honeycombed with American and Israeli spies and terrorist-cells, who for years have successfully carried out numerous high-profile assassinations and major acts of sabotage.

    Yes, and? Then why the two month delay between Wuhan and Iran? And why do you think the US needed the “cover” of 300 soldiers for military games to release the virus in China? The spooks couldn’t buy a plane ticket or use the US embassy? Do you realize how ridiculous YOU sound?

    The Iranian Covid outbreak seems to have begun almost exactly around the time that American assassinated Iran’s top military leader.

    Then why did it take for late in February to have an impact? Do you think anything through?

    None of that proves anything, but it would seem *extraordinarily* suspicious to any reasonable observer.

    If all you have is a hammer, then yes, everything looks like nail. But for such a suspicious fellow, you seem awfully nonchalant about a lab conducting gain-of-function research on bat coronaviruses in a city where a novel bat coronavirus emerges.

    Meanwhile, you note that Iran has important business and industrial relations with China. But that’s true of nearly all the countries in the world. For example, it’s been widely reported that a million Chinese currently work in Africa, yet there weren’t any early outbreaks there.

    Religious gatherings and shrine kissing. Cultural practices. It’s also a winter virus. Blind luck. Any number of reasons. But you can’t explain the two month delay if Iran was deliberately targeted with a bioweapon.

    There are more than 5 million Chinese-Americans, a good fraction of whom are China-born and retain close ties to that country, and they were an important early vector for our own outbreaks, yet these occurred long after the one in Iran.

    You’re wrong. Since you quoted Wikipedia as a source earlier, I’ll do the same:

    “On February 6, the earliest confirmed American death with COVID-19 (that of a 57-year-old woman) occurred in Santa Clara County, California. The CDC did not report its confirmation until April 21,[18] by which point nine other COVID-19 deaths had occurred in Santa Clara County.[51] The virus had been circulating undetected at least since early January and possibly as early as November.[52] On February 25, the CDC warned the American public for the first time to prepare for a local outbreak.[53][54] The next day, New York City saw the sickening of its “patient zero”, Manhattan attorney Lawrence Garbuz, then thought to be the first community-acquired case.[55][56][57]” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_the_United_States

    • Troll: d dan
    • Replies: @thotmonger
    , @Ron Unz
  276. @chrimony

    So how did the evil Chinese communists manage to infect 63 residents and 19 staff members at the Greenspring Retirement Community in Springfield, VA in June and July of 2019?

    • Replies: @GomezAdddams
  277. One-off says:

    But for six years our website had been publishing a wide variety of extremely controversial articles on all sorts of different subjects, and we had never had any problems with either Facebook or Google.

    Then in late April 2020, I published my first long article laying out the substantial evidence that the global Covid outbreak might have been due to an American biowarfare attack against China (and Iran), and that article got very strong early traffic, with more Facebook Likes in the first few days than anything I had previously published.

    But about ten days after it ran, our website was suddenly banned by Facebook. A few days later, our entire website was deranked by Google, so that all our web pages would appear near the very bottom of Google searches and almost no one would see them. The coincidental timing of these actions seems very suspicious.

    I still think an accidental lab leak is the more likely explanation, although your theory is plausible. What I have excerpted here, though, is the most important aspect of all.

    Why panic over this particular piece at all?

    I don’t know whether you agree or not, and it really doesn’t matter, but the social media networks are propaganda organs for the intelligence services. Your theory hit a nerve with the IC for whatever reason. My gut is US intelligence was working very closely with China to develop bioweapons. It was memoryholed, of course, and may have been false, but early reports were the Chinese had developed an ethnic-specific bioweapon to target Whites. Given the current genocidal bent of the US government, is it possible this bioweapon that directly targeted Whites was funded by American intelligence to use against the indigenous population here? Don’t discount it. Those weapons also may have been to target Russians, who are overwhelmingly White, but given the ties China has with Putin that seems implausible. All that aside, how many people even realized that the United States government was pumping funds to a Chinese laboratory experimenting with viruses and making them more lethal? In what world does that pass any smell test?

    A more benign explanation is the United States was involved with China in extremely risky behavior with biological experimentation and a virus leaked. Neither nation has much of an incentive to discuss the actual origins if that is the case.

    I agree with you that the Fauci emails themselves were a MacGuffin, but disagree that his circuitous funding of the Wuhan lab is anything short of breathtaking.

    And, of course, you may be one hundred percent correct. Recent events certainly bolster your case, not the least of which is the Neocon/Zionist sabre rattling against China and the 180 on Putin as they realize a Russia-China alliance would defeat and devastate their home base in a matter of weeks. There are also indications Zionist financial interests are becoming scared that they are about to be swallowed alive by the Chinese, who refuse to allow them to corrupt and financialize their economy. It appears the Chinese, and to a lesser extent the Koreans, have overtaken the Jews as the biggest player in the Los Angeles real estate market and are now moving into the financial sector. Again, don’t discount financial motives.

    If we get a firm fix on the date the virus first emerged, it will help unravel what actually happened. Your theory will depend of whether the spread of the virus predates the military games.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  278. @Ron Unz

    There’s always a serious risk of false-positives in those sorts of tests

    So almost 95% of the cases initially found turned out to be false-positives.

    That’s what conspiracy theorists have been saying about the whole pandemic, you silly billy!

  279. @gotmituns

    Exactly. But that doesn’t garner hits and intellectual gravitas on this pin head’s website.

  280. anonym25 says:
    @Hughes

    The IRGC participated at the Wuhan Military Games. This is where they got the virus.

    • Replies: @Hughes
  281. @Realist

    What is a “logical fallacy”?

    What are you talking about?

    You apparently don’t understand diction or syntax, because you totally misread my post.

    Moreover, I make a qualitative judgment and you call it a fallacy. Qualitative judgments are neither fallacious nor non-fallacious. They are qualitative judgments.

    How could the fact that argument from consensus has lost allure be a fallacy? Maybe you disagree, and find argument from consensus still plenty alluring enough fer you. Fine. You disagree. But it’s just a statement.

    Try this on fer size: You’re a moron. That statement might be false, or it might be true. But it is neither fallacious nor non-fallacious. Fallacy doesn’t come into it.

    Oh, I give up. You’re just a dumb troll scoring little pointies (you think), and you’ll never learn to read. You lunkhead.

    • Replies: @Realist
  282. Anonymous[108] • Disclaimer says:
    @Digital Samizdat

    Maybe because it’s a prototype? Having a high fatality rate for a newly developed/highly unpredictable contagion makes far less sense than starting off relatively negligible — by keeping the fatality rate low the virus can get a live trial run without potentially catastrophic consequences.

    The fatality rate can be tweaked later.

  283. cranc says:
    @Ron Unz

    So the idea of a low lethality virus being ‘the ideal economic weapon’ comes from an anonymous comment left below a pseudonymous blog. That is not too credible a source in my books.
    One problem with the application of the idea is that Covid does not even hospitalise many of the people it infects, let alone kill them, so even if this underlying concept from ‘Old Microbiologist’ has some standing in the realm of biowarfare, SarsCov2 is a very poor example. Covid is quite treatable too, and this is another argument against its use in this way. The UK built several ‘Nightingale Hospitals’ at great expense, with thousands of emergency bed spaces in preparation for the expected wave of people in need of emergency care. The wave never happened and precisely none (zero) of those extra beds were necessary. It is facts like these which, when ignored and suppressed by this narrative seem to stand out in contradiction. The economic effects of Covid itself have been close to zero, all the effects have come from lockdowns which are an unprecedented and unnecessary policy of governments around the world.
    Another problem with the theory in this article arguably comes when we imagine the scenario of the perpetrators achieving a degree of success in their plans. Imagine they had selected a weaponised virus that really did hospitalise a significant proportion of those infected, and moreover, it threatened the lives of many working age people rather than those toward the end of their lives. Imagine that, and that the perpetrators had somehow taken some measures to try and contain the spread in China (their target and adversary), rather than let it arrive in the US, then procede to hype the danger to the country beyond all sense or reason.
    In that scenario, the Chinese economy enters a turmoil, the country is destabilised, the great productive machine of the Chinese costal cities grinds to a halt, the Yuan plummets. The US stops imports from China. How is that going impact the USA as a nation ?
    Basically, almost everything that is used day to day in North America is made in China, so one would expect a break down in supply chains and the social, economic and political crises one would expect from such a situation to take over the US. Would that be a desired outcome from an ‘economic attack’ ?
    ..
    I think that overall this line of argument is built upon false premises : that there still exists a kind of nationalist drive within US deep state politics (e.g. in ‘Trump’s policy toward China’); and that shutting down economies was inevitable and necessary in response to the spread of this particular virus. I don’t think either are true or that you have even really tried to demonstrate them as true.

  284. d dan says:
    @Ron Unz

    “The American blood samples seem to show that a half-dozen Americans might have become infected by the end of December”

    I really resist jumping in this thread to avoid unnecessarily occupying the overclouded bandwidth, but this is a glaring misinterpretation. The test shows about 9 people out of 24,000 were infected. If the sample is truly random, and there is no reason to believe it is not, then we are talking about over 100,000 infected in the entire country by December. If they all came from Wuhan, then China should probably have millions infected by then. Separately, there was another sample of 7,000 that CDC collected from Red Cross (i.e. people who thought they were healthy enough to donate blood – so that was likely under-sampling of infected), and they similarly found a few infected. Furthermore, some of the infected did not travel nor stay near travel hub.

    This of course is still tentative, but it is better to be open minded instead of wasting your energy attacking the possibility of Fort Detrick leak (what about a truce?) The leak is consistent with your bio-attack theory. It may make the story more complicated (e.g. multiple variants, different infection rate, etc), but the world is complicated (despite that silly Occam Razor for the intellectually lazy and stupid people).

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  285. ziggurat says:
    @Chris Moore

    The virus did spread very wide, very fast.

    Iran is the 30th country to have its first case of COVID, with many preceding countries more distant from China than Iran.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_by_country_and_territory#Timeline_of_first_confirmed_case_by_country

  286. @Sean

    Sean as usual your racist, Sinophobic and Orientalist bigotry and pig ignorance disqualify you from making any comments regarding China. China is considerably less ‘totalitarian’ than the capitalist oligarchies of the West, the USA in particular.

    • Agree: acementhead
    • Replies: @Sean
  287. @utu

    Bit by bit you reveal yourself, troll. BigPharma arse-kisser, Russophobe etc.

  288. @Godfree Roberts

    Godfree, your dreadful atheistic name gives you away! The ChiComms lie, tear organs from Fa Lun Gong devotees while still alive, steal IP from their Western betters because their tiny Asiatic brains cannot innovate, eat Uighur babies for breakfast and have NO RESPECT for their Western superiors. Seres delenda est!!

  289. @anon

    Thai intelligence? That is a keeper. More likely Chinese intelligence leaked by way of Thailand.

  290. @chrimony

    Within the last year I recall Unz saying ~80% of the writers on Unz Review were ~bananas. I figured he included Mike Whitney among this set and am surprised he agreed to this interview.

    Why not have a discussion with Wade Davis since he is the real trail blazer. Start there.

    And where is the Iranian Government on this allegation of a biowar attack against their intelligensia? Should they not file some sort of complaint with the United Nations?

    Where are the teams of journalists working on the Unz story? Where are the teams of public health professionals signing on to petitions expressing concern about this thesis and demanding more information? Where along with more evidence are the coalitions of supports UNZ should have galvanized by now?

    This bubble of isolation baffles me.

    Lastly, how does this all fit the global shut down over-reaction, untested mass vaccines and calls for vaccine passports for a germ with something with a ~0.5% fatality? Unz bemoans the MSM censoring Unz Review but what about all the doctors, and other dissent? All the industry, churches, and travel shut, etc. That is not some small effect. How do these people feel today. Ha. = something else is going on. This too calls for discussion. Or am I wrong?

    • Replies: @Johnny Rico
  291. @Harold Smith

    Now that is one for the books !! This reminds me of the time Dallas Diamond Page was going to wrestle Kamala but they could not find a referee who could count to 3.

  292. @Iris

    They remotely funded a valuable Health research

    Can you tell us what exactly that “valuable” “Health” research contributed for prevention and later curtailment of the present pandemic? To be fair, tell us also the role of other labs doing dangerous research all around the world to that same effect.

    China has one of the least effective Covid-19 vaccines of the planet (CoronaVac, from Sinovac). Can you tell me the role of the Wuhan lab or of virus collecting and/or gain-of-function in general in the development of that or any other vaccine? To be fair, tell us also the role of other labs doing dangerous research all around the world in the development of existing vaccines.

    • Agree: Sean
    • Replies: @Iris
  293. @anon

    Yes, whether you believe their Ministry of Health, who investigated it, or hyperbolic propaganda from their lower rent TV stations, who did not.

  294. @utu

    I guess (referring to this and your other reply) there’s nothing wrong in a healthy suspiciousness. But Deigin has invited peer review (on twitter), and so far he hasn’t had any offers.

    • Replies: @Sean
  295. @thotmonger

    They are denied access to this information by the Jews running Google. Duh. You and I are lucky to have found this site before the crackdown.

  296. Hughes says:
    @anonym25

    1. They still go through Tehran. That an outbreak would happen first in Qom instead of Tehran is impossible with the natural infection scenario.
    2. The outbreak case would then start first within and involves the Iranian military instead of seemingly targeted their senior government officials and politicians in Qom.

    • Agree: Iris
  297. Sean says:
    @Mulga Mumblebrain

    The Covid BioWeapon: Made in the USA, Aimed at China

    So Americans used a coronavirus on China five years after an American scientist had caused international uproar by showing the Chinese how to make new coronaviruses.

    “In order to study it in a lab, scientists have created a hybrid version of a virus that could be the world’s next pandemic — a SARS 2.0,” Vice Magazine (2016)

    The Bomb was dropped on Hiroshima (then they tested a different design on Nagasaki) because Japan could not retaliate in kind. Please do not insult my intelligence by suggesting that the CIA was not aware of Shi Zhengl ‘s work.

  298. @Sean

    the evidence of some sort of lab leak–if it ever existed–has been destroyed by now anyway

    In what regards SARS-CoV-2, the evidence may or may not have been destroyed, but here’s evidence of:

    (1) the existence of some specific dangerous viruses in the WIV and other laboratories in Wuhan and Fuzhou;
    (2) the occurrence of biosafety protocol breaches in those places.

    Unexpected novel Merbecovirus discoveries in agricultural sequencing datasets from Wuhan, China
    https://arxiv.org/abs/2104.01533

    • Agree: Sean
    • Replies: @utu
  299. Iva says:

    “Our CDC botched the production of testing-kits, so for many weeks we had no way of knowing if the virus was starting to spread here.” …………..what about document that millions of PCR test were sold and distributed all over the world in 2017 and 2018 with the name Covid-19 tests on shioping documents. We didn’t hear about virus at this time.

  300. utu says:
    @Ron Unz

    Thanks for clarifying the role of Wade.

  301. Ron Unz says:
    @One-off

    If we get a firm fix on the date the virus first emerged, it will help unravel what actually happened. Your theory will depend of whether the spread of the virus predates the military games.

    The standard MSM narrative is that the Wuhan outbreak began in late Oct/early Nov, which fits perfectly with the World Military Games being the vector.

    Google tends to present the “standard narrative” and if you Google something like “first Wuhan covid case,” a discussion of this Pekar journal article comes first, having the subtitle: “Study dates emergence to as early as October 2019; simulations suggest in most cases zoonotic viruses die out naturally before causing a pandemic.” The results are summarized as:

    “By combining these disparate lines of evidence, we were able to put an upper limit of mid-October 2019 for when SARS-CoV-2 started circulating in Hubei province…Regional newspaper reports suggest COVID-19 diagnoses in Hubei date back to at least November 17, 2019.”

    https://health.ucsd.edu/news/releases/Pages/2021-03-18-novel-coronavirus-circulated-undetected-months-before-first-covid-19-cases-in-wuhan-china.aspx

    So I think the “conventional wisdom” among experts is Patient Zero became infected in late Oct/early Nov.

    • Thanks: One-off
    • Replies: @emersonreturn
  302. Skeptikal says:
    @gatobart

    It is an interesting formulation, one that I myself have used.

    There are versions in some other languages.

    I use it when I want to bring a piece of info or a viewpoing that doesn’t lead directly from what went before, or perhaps might seem to some like a non sequitur, yet I think it has relevance. But don’t want to get into a fight.

    I think it is partly a hedge against the high level of hostility and confrontational language that many commenter gunslingers bring to the OK Corral—I mean, comment threads.

  303. Skeptikal says:
    @Mulga Mumblebrain

    “fools like I”?

    Oh, no! Now you really do sound like a fool!

    • Replies: @RobinG
  304. Ron Unz says:
    @d dan

    I really resist jumping in this thread to avoid unnecessarily occupying the overclouded bandwidth, but this is a glaring misinterpretation. The test shows about 9 people out of 24,000 were infected. If the sample is truly random, and there is no reason to believe it is not, then we are talking about over 100,000 infected in the entire country by December.

    You’re missing the point. As the MSM articles indicate, some experts dispute those results, doubting that the 9 detected cases were real rather than also being false-positives. After all, if using a second antibody test revealed that 95% of the initial results were false-positives, maybe a third test would reduce that total by another 95% and a fourth by an additional 95%. There’s no way of knowing. So maybe there were infections that early and maybe there weren’t, and perhaps the correct number was much lower.

    My point was merely that obtaining such a huge fraction of known false-positives obviously explains those anomalous very early results in Barcelona and other parts of Europe, since it appears the studies didn’t bother employing a second antibody screening test.

    • Agree: Sean
    • Replies: @GomezAdddams
  305. Who needs a bio-weapon when changing a few words in the WHO’s definition of “pandemic” and “herd immunity” will have the desired effect?

    If you asked most people to define what a pandemic is. They would probably tell you that it is disease which kills enormous numbers of people around the world. I would have said the same thing myself but we would be wrong. In recent years, WHO changed the definition of pandemic, serology and herd immunity which made our present state of emergency a near certainty.

    According to WHO, prior to 2009, a pandemic would involve enormous numbers of deaths. In the public mind, such a pandemic, with enormous numbers of deaths, would justify the government declaring a state of emergency requiring lock-downs,masks, social distancing, etc, and possibly, even promoting a trial vaccine if the number of fatalities were enormous. Not so anymore. Now a virulent flu can be called a pandemic. And herd immunity ain’t what it used to be either. Now the WHO definition of herd immunity is grotesquely skewed towards vaccination. Who would have guessed?

    When is a pandemic not a pandemic?
    Since 2003, the top of the WHO Pandemic Preparedness homepage has contained the following statement: “An influenza pandemic occurs when a new influenza virus appears against which the human population has no immunity, resulting in several simultaneous epidemics worldwide with enormous numbers of deaths and illness.”

    However, on 4May 2009, scarcely one month before the H1N1 pandemic was declared, the web page was altered in response to a query from a CNN reporter. The phrase “enormous numbers of deaths and illness” had been removed and the revised web page simply read as follows: “An influenza pandemic may occur when a new influenza virus appears against which the human population has no immunity.” Months later, the Council of Europe would cite this alteration as evidence that WHO changed its definition of pandemic influenza to en-able it to declare a pandemic without having to demonstrate the intensity of the disease caused by the H1N1 virus.
    Source: https://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/89/7/11-086173.pdf

    [MORE]

    9June2020 WHO website, Coronavirus disease (COVID-19): Serology.
    Definition of Herd Immunity:
    Herd immunity is the indirect protection from an infectious disease that happens when a population is immune either through vaccination or immunity developed through previous infection. This means that even people who haven’t been infected, or in whom an infection hasn’t triggered an immune response, they are protected because people around them who are immune can act as buffers between them and an infected person. The threshold for establishing herd immunity for COVID-19 is not yet clear.
    Source: https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/coronavirus-disease-covid-19-serology

    13Nov2020 WHO website, Coronavirus disease (COVID-19): Serology, antibodies and immunity.
    Definition of Herd Immunity:
    ‘Herd immunity’, also known as ‘population immunity’, is a concept used for vaccination, in which a population can be protected from a certain virus if a threshold of vaccination is reached.

    Herd immunity is achieved by protecting people from a virus, not by exposing them to it. Read the Director-General’s 12 October media briefing speech for more detail.

    Vaccines train our immune systems to develop antibodies, just as might happen when we are exposed to a disease but – crucially – vaccines work without making us sick. Vaccinated people are protected from getting the disease in question. Visit our webpage on COVID-19 and vaccines for more detail.

    As more people in a community get vaccinated, fewer people remain vulnerable, and there is less possibility for passing the pathogen on from person to person. Lowering the possibility for a pathogen to circulate in the community protects those who cannot be vaccinated due to other serious health conditions from the disease targeted by the vaccine. This is called ‘herd immunity’.

    ‘Herd immunity’ exists when a high percentage of the population is vaccinated, making it difficult for infectious diseases to spread, because there are not many people who can be infected. Read our Q&A on vaccines and immunization for more information.

    The percentage of people who need to have antibodies in order to achieve herd immunity against a particular disease varies with each disease. For example, herd immunity against measles requires about 95% of a population to be vaccinated. The remaining 5% will be protected by the fact that measles will not spread among those who are vaccinated. For polio, the threshold is about 80%.

    Achieving herd immunity with safe and effective vaccines makes diseases rarer and saves lives.

    Find out more about the science behind herd immunity by reading our dedicated Q&A or watching or reading this interview with WHO’s Chief Scientist, Dr Soumya Swaminathan.
    Source: https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/coronavirus-disease-covid-19-serology

    These are topics which should have been discussed openly if we had an independent media and a government which did not take its instructions from WHO, the UN et al. Without the “pandemic” and the government and media collusion, could a state of emergency ever have been declared?

    • Replies: @John Fisher
    , @acementhead
  306. @Ron Unz

    French biosecurity expert who supervised the construction and accreditation of the biosafety level 4 (BSL-4) laboratory of the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) has dismissed the theory that COVID-19 escaped from the lab.

    French expert, Gabriel Gras, put the chance of a leak from the BSL-4 laboratory at “zero percent”and “The lab is of a high standard. It was his work to verify this, and as he had the background of safety (consultant), lab designer, and virology scientist, Gras was 100 percent involved,” stressing that he had “no doubt” about the safety of the lab.

    According to the report, Gras also had little doubt that the virus is natural.”I am 100 percent sure it is not constructed, developed in a lab,” he said.

    The virology researcher pointed out that the discussion about the pandemic’s origin had become politicized. “For me this is (no longer) a scientific issue.”

    Now let science take its proper course Sherlock —I am simply a London medic residing on Baker Street”—John Watson”

  307. Iris says:
    @Brás Cubas

    Can you tell us what exactly that “valuable” “Health” research contributed for prevention and later curtailment of the present pandemic?

    I believe you to be educated enough to already know the answer, and it is irrelevant to the trolling disguised as moral posturing practised by “chrimony”, “Sean”, and the other obvious professional trolls.

    Gain-of-function was officially performed first in Holland in 2011, and has been since most likely practised by every nation possessing the adequate lab facilities.
    https://science.sciencemag.org/content/336/6088/1534

    So the “Virgin-horrified-by-China’s-GOF-research” posture practiced by some is both uninformed and out-of-date; they are lagging by 10 years.

    Aside from its other, secret and criminal application to acquire bioweapons, there is an obvious positive medical aspect to GOF, recognised by medical professionals. It allows virologists to be ahead of viruses, in that they can map their possible future mutations and prepare public Health policy protection measures in advance.

    although there was no attempt to achieve a consensus, no disagreement was voiced to the repeated claims of various presenters that in the short term GoF research is helpful for adapting viruses to growth in culture and for developing essential animal models for emerging pathogens, such as Middle East Respiratory Syndrome coronavirus (MERS-CoV), and escape mutations to understand drug resistance and viral evasion of the immune system

    Page 30 “4 Potential Benefits of Gain-of-Function Research.” Institute of Medicine and National Research Council. 2015. Potential Risks and Benefits of Gain-of-Function Research: Summary of a Workshop. Washington, DC: The National Academies Press. doi: 10.17226/21666.×
    https://www.nap.edu/read/21666/chapter/5

    It is a matter of opinions, but it is also certain that moral posturing has no interest or relevancy in matters where clearly a compromise decision has to be made, weighing the benefits against the risks.

    Is nuclear energy bad? Yes, for those interested only in developing WMD and incompetent at managing nuclear wastes (the USA for instance). No, for those able to deliver a clean, carbon-free energy and with an impeccable and proven safety record (France).
    Yet, I meet all the time with childish moral virgins who are against nuclear energy and carbon emission, but still want their homes to be lit and heated for cheap, all year long, without adding to global warming. Well, in the real life, there is no free lunch.

    The same principle applies to GOF. It is easy enough to figure out why some would have wanted to develop epidemiological models in advance , considering the catastrophic s**t the world found itself in since Covid19 struck.

    • Disagree: Brás Cubas
  308. @TKK

    Hmmm. Good points, all.

    All the fawning and cooing by the assembled women….Jesus Christ what a sad embarrassment.

    So he can’t imagine why anyone would oppose a commission that would investigate what he laughably calls the greatest assault on the American capitol since the Civil War…..

    There’s no hope of living with these people. The extent to which they will spin false narratives shows that they have nothing but contempt for reality and a truthful depiction of it. Imagine being on a trip with this person, one on one. How would you plan the day’s agenda, set reasonable goals or even agree on what you had done the day before? I would bet that you would abandon them in short order, after realizing that traveling with them was literally an insane-making experience.

    Could you imagine being cooped up on a life raft with an idiot like this? Where you had to agree on how much stores you had, how long your water would last if consumed at such and such a rate? What direction is north? Which direction you would need to proceed to most likely reach safety?

    Pretty sure I would toss him overboard and go it alone. Loneliness is preferable to being tied to an insane, willful cripple. Won’t be long before America is engaged in an all-0ut battle to see who shall succeed in throwing whom overboard.

    You can tell who is in the right by who simply wants to be left alone to go their own way. Whereas the Right simply wants to be left alone, the Left desperately clings to them like a person who can’t swim dragging down a person who can. The Left won’t let us go. Mention secession and they look horror stricken, literally not believing that anyone would raise such a prospect. Their response to the Right’s wanting to put some space between them and the Left is to invent false allegations and imprison the Right. They can’t bear the thought of rejection–or of having to go it alone, of having to develop competence and effectiveness–those traits which differentiate an adult from a child.

  309. Eric Clapton shares his feelings candidly about the past year of Covid lockdown, in this 25 min YT (06/14/21):

    He talks about the flip-flops in policies and actions of British political and public health officials throughout the the entire pandemic that frequently set off his “bullshit radar”, and:

    -How he has been surprised to have been attacked/labeled a Trump supporter (within England ?!) for his public statements during the the pandemic.

    -Talks about his own frightening symptoms after receiving the two-jab, AstraZeneca spike protein-coding DNA-adenovector type experimental gene therapy vaccine agent.

    It’s YT, so the video may not be up for long….

    • Thanks: gay troll
    • Replies: @Robert Dolan
    , @Stonehands
  310. Sean says:
    @Brás Cubas

    There is bat harvesting in many countries such as India (Nagaland), but no zoonotic disease outbreaks in humans comparable to the current pandemic. Bat harvesting involves hunting bats for their meat, during a festival in October in the case of Nagaland, as it is believed to improve virility. The US DTRA funded many such studies on bats in the wake of Ebola, SARS and MERS outbreaks. I think the probability is these bat bothers and gain of function show offs caused the Covid-19 epidemic. In 2017 there was an Indian led but international project in Nagaland. Shi Zhengli published on the Nagaland, purportedly “observational” study, and her paper was published in October 2019 by the scientific journal PLOS Neglected Tropical Diseases. There is an unresolved investigation into the Indian end of the research now because there appears to be concern Gain of Function might have been used. I think lab security is the main problem.

    A simple failure of containment of the bat coronaviruses at the Wuhan lab was always the most likely explanation for the origin of the global pandemic given the propinquity, which only a highly intelligent overthinker could avoid seeing as most significant. Gain of Function adding to the human to human transmissibility is less certain but still not unlikely. It is no surprise that the Wuhan Institute of Virology had inadequate adherence to containment of pathogens, because US diplomats who had been proudly informed about Shi Zhengli’s latest discoveries of Chinese bat coronaviruses had American teams repeatedly visit the Wuhan institute up to and after the BSL4 lab was built by French billionaire businessman Alain Mérieux under an agreement for joint operation that the Chinese went back on as soon as they had the lab set up. The workers there told the US experts in 2018 that the Wuhan BSL4 facility lacked enough qualified people to operate it up to the stipulated safety standards.

    • Agree: Dnought, One-off
    • Thanks: Brás Cubas
    • Troll: d dan
  311. utu says:
    @Brás Cubas

    The stated message from Deigin (corresponding author) article is that there must have been occurrences of biosafety protocol breaches in Chinese labs because sequenced genotypes are messed up and the unstated one is that Chinese are really sloppy and dumb when sequencing genomes because they classified fragments of human viruses as plant viruses and then on top of it stupidly published them in the database. Really, really dumb.

    I would like to see somebody else going through the same database. And also I would like to see applying the same level of scrutiny to sequencing results submitted to databases by other labs from other countries to get some idea how unusual are their findings.

    Yuri Deigin seems to be a very sharp guy but a bit too sharp for my taste. Check the website of his company:

    http://youthereum.ca

    Is there anything behind the front of the website? They conducted or rather outsourced to somewhere in Russia his idea for two experiments (cost $15 000 USD) which yielded negative results. There is no other activity reported.

    My limited knowledge of the “aging research” (including cryonics) tells me that it is more a spiel than research. It is peopled with personalities who are a combination of visionaries, fantastists and hucksters in a constant search for funding and suckers who would give them money.

    I have this suspicion that this sharp and ambitious man wants to make a name for himself, wants to get attacked to something bigger and more profitable than what he was engaging in so far.

    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
  312. I think the thing missing from this article and most others is the really important fact that the bioweapons development at Ft. Detrick has gradually been replaced over the years by bioweapons development in universities and private labs like EcoHealth Alliance. This is the great legacy of Fauci. He has made the NIH the center of the US bioweapons research programs.

    In 1972 most nations of the world signed an agreement absolutely banning bioweapons. At that time, the research in bioweapons at Ft. Detrick was massive — and suddenly illegal and an embarrassment to the US. As Ron Unz and Glen Greenwald have reminded, the Anthrax bioweapons case in 2001 proved that in 2001 Ft. Detrick was still developing bioweapons. But the process of moving all of this research into universities and private labs was well under way.

    Gain of Function research is essentially bioweapons research. You can’t combat a pathogen of natural origins by creating some “Franken-virus” that could never evolve naturally. SARS Cov 2 cannot have evolved naturally. It is a pure product of genetic engineering.

    The interview with Peter Daszak and Virology Today shows Daszak describing the creation of a virus very much like SARS Cov 2. This was Dec. 2019 before anyone knew about SARS Cov 2. He notes pieces came from Wuhan (the spike protein) and other parts from other viruses. They were all assembled by Ralph Baric’s group at the Univ. of North Carolina. All was funded by Fauci and the NIH.

    EcoHealth Alliance is a private bio-research corporation now doing a very large part of the work that used to be done at Ft. Detrick. It operates about 50 labs in 30 nations around the world. Its funding comes from three main sources: the NIH, USAID (a CIA front), and the Pentagon. It is not about health. It is about bioweapons.

  313. @Articus1978

    Who needs a bio-weapon when changing a few words in the WHO’s definition of “pandemic” and “herd immunity” will have the desired effect?

    Indeed. This is merely one of the many telltale signs of an elaborately planned operation.

    As long as the debate is about a “virus” it reinforces a false reality and keeps things moving toward “the desired effect” as you say.

    The “virus” is a unicorn. People might as well debate the origin and features and movements of unicorns, and pat themselves on the back for being so perceptive.

    • Agree: Skeptikal
    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  314. Mevashir says:
    @Iris

    Is nuclear energy bad? Yes, for those interested only in developing WMD and incompetent at managing nuclear wastes (the USA for instance). No, for those able to deliver a clean, carbon-free energy and with an impeccable and proven safety record (France).

    I have read that France, like England, has dumped an enormous amount of radioactive waste in insecure barrels into the English Channel and other places along the French coastline. Do you consider that a good example of nuclear waste management?

    • Replies: @Iris
  315. utu says:
    @Sean

    “Baric is disqualified from expressing a opinion given his conflict of interest ” – But his challenge to Steven Quay methodology was correct.

    • Replies: @Sean
  316. Iris says:
    @GomezAdddams

    According to the report, Gras also had little doubt that the virus is natural.”I am 100 percent sure it is not constructed, developed in a lab,” he said.

    It must be mentioned that this also the opinion expressed by lead British virologist Pr Wendy Barclay, in an official and constraining context, since she said so when being quizzed by the Parliamentarian science committee.

    She declared that, while she couldn’t rule out the possibility of the coronavirus leaking out of a science lab in Wuhan, the accepted idea that the virus spread to humans in an animal market was “much more likely”.

    ‘I’ll say with high confidence it came from an animal source. That’s my answer – high confidence it came from an animal.’

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9693345/Coronavirus-UKs-SAGE-virologist-says-exclude-possibility-Wuhan-lab-leak-theory.html

    Of course, it does mean this is her true opinion, but may just reflect the multi-orientation of the politics going on in the UK, who may have found it it needs China more than initially thought for its post-Brexit development.

    • LOL: Sean
    • Replies: @utu
  317. Sean says:
    @GomezAdddams

    French expert, Gabriel Gras, put the chance of a leak from the BSL-4 laboratory at “zero percent” and “The lab is of a high standard. It was his work to verify this, and as he had the background of safety (consultant), lab designer, and virology scientist, Gras was 100 percent involved,” stressing that he had “no doubt” about the safety of the lab.

    I am sure the lab was top notch, nevertheless it was constructed for the Chinese by a French businessman on the understanding that there would be joint operation. But the Chinese kicked the French out in 2018, and so he has no way of knowing whether the lab was being appropriately operated. A report from US experts said the actual technicians employed thought they lacked the trained staff to use the facility properly.

    According to the report, Gras also had little doubt that the virus is natural. ”I am 100 percent sure it is not constructed, developed in a lab,” he said

    “Constructed” is a straw man argument. While a border collie sheepdog is natural inasmuch it is descended from wolves, they are very different in their abilities and proclivities nevertheless. What is being wondered about is whether the Wuhan institute used a natural evolution mimicking technique called serial passage. By cycles of infection and selection of the desired characteristic of infection in lab animals and cell cultures an innocuous natural bat coronavirus can be turned from a poodle to a pitbull. If they used humanised mice (which were used by Baric in a study that Wuhan people participated in) or human cell cultures, the bat coronavirus could have been made highly human-human transmissible. That transmissibility between humans is the most suspicious thing about Covid -19 is perhaps a matter of opinion that experts can differ on. However there is no gainsaying the propinquity of the Bat Lady’s institute with the original outbreak of a bat coronavirus global pandemic.

  318. @utu

    I would like to see somebody else going through the same database. And also I would like to see applying the same level of scrutiny to sequencing results submitted to databases by other labs from other countries to get some idea how unusual are their findings.

    So would I. And so would Yuri Deigin. Apparently no one has volunteered.

    Is there anything behind the front of the website?

    You may be right to be suspicious, as I keep saying. As for myself, perhaps I am exceedingly naïve, because, even if everything you say about Deigin, his company, his motives, etc., is correct, I still don’t see him as mendacious or dishonest in any way.

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @utu
    , @Ron Unz
  319. Iris says:
    @Mevashir

    I have read that France, like England, has dumped an enormous amount of radioactive waste in insecure barrels into the English Channel

    That was a German contention, dating back 1997. The militant German “Greens” making such contention have had 24 years to prove it true, but haven’t provided any evidence since, so their claims can fairly be ignored.

    The facts that should not be ignored however, is that Japan is preparing to dump 1.2 million tons of radioactive wastewater from the Fukushima Nuclear Power Plant into the North Pacific.

    This action has far reaching-implications and should at least be carried with the utmost transparency. But since Japan is a US client-state protected by its boss, nobody pips a word about this fact, while everybody is barking at the hypothetical WIV lab link.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/the-danger-of-japan-dumping-fukushima-wastewater-into-the-ocean/ar-BB1fKZNB

    • Replies: @Mevashir
  320. utu says:
    @Iris

    I hope we will see a counteroffensive from the main stream science lead by legitimate scientists against the Nicholas Wade narrative based on writings of some blogger Yuri Deigin and back of envelope calculations by some cardiologist Steven Quay.

  321. Sean says:
    @utu

    Baric taught the Wuhan people the techniques he says were not used on the Covid -19 pathogen, yet Baric says only the Wuhan institute know whether Covid-19 escaped from their lab. Because it could be a natural virus that escaped, which is the question no one is asking because the answer would be the propinquity is too tight for anything else to be prime suspect. It is a matter of common sense.

  322. utu says:
    @Brás Cubas

    “I still don’t see him as mendacious or dishonest in any way.” – Yes, but the motivations matter because they lower confirmation bias threshold level and the fact that he seems to be an untethered floater career wise his motivation are amplified.

  323. The Ogs says:

    The witlessness of the people is always amazing to me. Here we have the Americans funneling a steady stream of taxpayer money into a string of bio-weapons research laboratories, and the string is long.
    There are dozens of these laboratories all around the planet absorbing American tax money.
    Now, a typical reasonable taxpayer might wonder what they have been doing to germs in these labs for the last 40 or 50 years? And conclude that if any strange germs come along in the future, at least we’ll have experts. And not just any kind; American experts.
    Flash forward to today – and strange germs are on the loose! Quick, where are our experts?
    They don’t know nuttin’… “No. It’s baffling. No, we didn’t send it to China with that phony athletic team. Never happened.”
    And so the taxpayers, thus primed to be world-experts in the subtle arts of depopulation by toxic pathogen, are sadly disappointed once again.

    • Replies: @Mevashir
  324. Ron Unz says:
    @chrimony

    Most of your points support the artificial virus theory, which I fully endorse. But that either means a random, accidental lab-leak or a deliberate biowarfare attack, and I think the evidence strongly supports the latter.

    I checked, and although my numerous Covid articles from the last 14 months had together attracted around 10,000 comments, not a single one of those came from you, so it’s possible that you haven’t bothered reading them. If not, you really should, because they directly addressed many of the issues you’re currently raising, and it’s pointless for me to just repeat my arguments in this thread. Here’s the link to the four main articles, and you might want to focus on the more recent ones:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-our-coronavirus-catastrophe-as-biowarfare-blowback/

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-covid-19-its-impact-and-origins-after-one-year/

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-truth-and-the-whole-truth-on-the-origins-of-covid-19/

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-george-orwells-virus-lab-leak/

    This Mike Whitney interview article merely allowed me to casually summarize my previous tens of thousands of words on the subject, and your critiques should focus on those works.

    • Agree: Robert Dolan
    • Replies: @chrimony
  325. Skeptikal says:
    @utu

    All you say looks likely except you don’t account for the pathetic response in the West being characterized also by withholding treatment and suppressing info about treatment and even punishing *doctors* who were successfully treating their patients.

    that is, physicians who knew that their task was to draw on their knowledge in the service of their patients to come up with combinations of medications that dealt with the multiple presentations of the covid-19 disease syndrome/suite. The Hippocratic Oath, that old-fashioned notion.

    As for bodies piling up, AFAIK no bodies piling up in Africa . . .

  326. Ron Unz says:
    @Brás Cubas

    You may be right to be suspicious, as I keep saying. As for myself, perhaps I am exceedingly naïve, because, even if everything you say about Deigin, his company, his motives, etc., is correct, I still don’t see him as mendacious or dishonest in any way.

    Since I didn’t have the expertise in microbiology to evaluate the contents of Deigin’s work, the suspicions I raised were far more generic:

    Or take the other main scientific source, an individual named Yuri Deigin, previously almost unknown to the world except through his occasional blogging in the unrelated field of gerontology. On April 22nd, just one week after Trump, Pompeo, and other top officials began making their dramatic charges, Deigin released a massive 16,000 word article on Medium, containing an ocean of colorful and very professionally-produced diagrams, charts, and graphs, making exactly the same case, but doing so in tremendous scientific detail. No other authors were listed, so we are required to assume that a single, independently-minded individual decided to put aside all his regular work and undertake such heroic efforts to investigate, write, and produce this enormous research report simply out of his disinterested concern regarding the true origins of the Covid-19 outbreak, which had only just become an important issue for Americans the previous month.

    That indeed may be exactly what happened, but I have my doubts. I carefully read the entire Deigin document not long after it was released, and found it exceptionally impressive, many, many times longer and more comprehensive than the contrary article published by those five academic scholars in Nature the previous month. Deigin’s analysis was so enormously detailed and exhaustive, one might at first glance assume that it had been the product of months of dedicated effort by a large team of top professionals rather than just a hobbyist-type undertaking by a solitary part-time blogger; and I strongly suspect that the former possibility is the actual reality.

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-covid-19-its-impact-and-origins-after-one-year/#scientific-claims-and-counter-claims

    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
  327. Realist says:
    @obwandiyag

    What is a “logical fallacy”?

    Argument from consensus

    How could the fact that argument from consensus has lost allure be a fallacy?

    I was of course referring to the subject of your statement which is argument from consensus

    It is you who misread my post.

    But as to your statement argument from consensus has lost allure…that illogical argument never had allure among intelligent, logical people.

  328. Ron Unz says:
    @GomezAdddams

    French expert, Gabriel Gras, put the chance of a leak from the BSL-4 laboratory at “zero percent”and “The lab is of a high standard. It was his work to verify this, and as he had the background of safety (consultant), lab designer, and virology scientist, Gras was 100 percent involved,” stressing that he had “no doubt” about the safety of the lab.

    According to the report, Gras also had little doubt that the virus is natural.”I am 100 percent sure it is not constructed, developed in a lab,” he said.

    I think the dilemma faced by Gras and all other scientific experts is that there are actually three possible scenarios for the Covid outbreak: (1) a natural virus; (2) an accidental lab-leak; and (3) a deliberate release, i.e. a biowarfare attack.

    The last possibility is regarded as so totally radioactive that almost no one is willing to consider it, and certainly no one “respectable” like Gras.

    Therefore, if he ignores (3), he’s left with (1) or (2), and since his connection with the Wuhan lab leads him to doubt the possibility of a lab-leak, he’s forced to claim the virus was natural, even if that seems scientifically implausible.

    Like I’ve said, I’m friendly with quite a number of reasonably prominent journalists and academics, and several of them have found my biowarfare hypothesis pretty persuasive. But none of them would say so in a million years.

  329. This just occurred to me:

    Is there a pattern here somewhere?

    Mid Sept. 2001: Senior US Senate Democrat leaders Tom Daschle (Majority leader) and Patrick Leahy, who had voiced strong opposition to certain sections of the sweeping PATRIOT ACT bill as improperly overriding Bill of Rights freedoms, received anthrax letters mailed to their offices, leading to a huge scare and shutdown / decontamination of US Capital hill buildings. => On Oct 25 2001, the Patriot Act bill, as/is w/o significant limiting changes passed the Senate 98-1, and became law.

    In the early days of 2020 Covid pandemic, the Boris Johnson UK government initially adopts a limited, ‘approach to naturally acquired herd immunity’ stance to dealing with the outbreak, which attempted to avoid complete shutdowns, and keep businesses and institutions functioning at a certain level, with epidemiological precautions applied. => Sometime in mid-March 2020 Boris Johnson , and partner (now wife) evidently contract Covid, and public confirmation of his infection is announced Mar 27. Johnson’s case worsens and he is admitted to hospital intensive care April 9. => Late Mar 2020, Britain reverses it “natural herd immunity’ policy and falls in line with the ‘total lockdown’ approach now preached by the High Priests of Science, Dr. Fauci, and the WHOs who shall not be questioned on Facebook, Google, or Twitter .

    Sept 26, 2020: After battling for four years successfully against all the Uniparty’s and the deep state Borg’s contrived Russiagate plots, scandals, landmines, and specious impeachment attempts, Trump seems to be back on top of things with his ACBarrett SC nomination, and apparent course ahead of smooth sailing to election to a second presidential term in November. Then that Rose Garden ACB reception “superspreader” event happened, where a Cloud of Covid seemed to descend upon Trump and the first several ‘ VIP’ rows of the attendees. The first Trump-Biden debate happened several days later, and Trump was hospitalized with covid a couple days following that. But in Trump’s case, he didn’t back down afterwards.

    What is it they say about coincidences in politics again?

  330. Mevashir says:
    @Iris

    This seems to provide sufficient evidence. What exactly is your interest in promoting nuclear power?

    [MORE]

    I grew up near San Francisco and it’s also been revealed that a massive amount of radioactive waste was dumped off the coast of California. This was waste from the many nuclear weapons labs in the area.

    When I lived in North Carolina it was revealed that similar dumping was done off the Carolina coast. Indeed the entire continental USA is ringed with offshore nuclear dumpsites.

    This is not a controversial claim. Why do you dispute it?

    Where do you think the English and French (safely) store their nuclear wastes?

    Please let us know miss nuke apologist.

  331. Mevashir says:
    @The Ogs

    The witlessness of the people is always amazing to me. Here we have the Americans funneling a steady stream of taxpayer money into a string of bio-weapons research laboratories, and the string is long. There are dozens of these laboratories all around the planet absorbing American tax money.

    I doubt the average American taxpayer could even comprehend the uses his money goes for. Indeed some claim that our taxes merely pay to service the Federal Debt. Almost all programs are deficit financed via Treasury bills that our Chinese friends conveniently purchase to keep us afloat.

    A relative was a recombinant DNA researcher back in the 1970s when the field was rapidly expanding. He claimed all that research was to find a “cure for cancer.” Later I discovered that the NIH funding often carried an assumed bioweaponry application whether the grant recipient wanted it to or not.

    The MIC does what it wants. Why do you think so many microbiologists have committed suicide and died suspiciously over the past 20 years?
    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/scientists-deaths-are-under-the-microscope/article4134797/

  332. @GomezAdddams

    Dr Shi’s experiments, in whole or in part, by her own admission, were done in a BSL-2 laboratory, the biosafety standards of a dentist’s office. A breach of containment was inevitable, and a breach of containment at The Wuhan Institute of Virology is the source if the epidemic. One or more of Dr Shi’s lab workers was exposed to SARS-CoV2, then spread it around Wuhan doing ordinary things like shopping or socializing. It is just as simple as that. Inane babbling about Fort Detrick is merely Tortured Argumentation.

    • Agree: Sean
    • Thanks: Triteleia Laxa
    • Troll: d dan
  333. ld says:
    @gay troll

    12 Monkeys
    saving endless countries
    from the demons we create
    whilst we hoover every nickel
    from every sovereign state
    we MUST be number one
    we must kill the competition
    even if it takes
    a fatal parasite emission
    don’t worry we’ll be safe
    we have done this trick before
    our product is selective
    and will never reach our shore
    we point our stinking finger
    at the countries we deplore
    and shift the blame
    like what we done
    so many times before

    • Thanks: Ryan2
    • Replies: @gay troll
  334. dms578 says:

    a few points this article does not raise this question it was discussed on various sites last year in height of outbreak. Is it possible certainly but nothing said here gives any confirmation that Ft Detrick is source or our agencies had operatives who released it. First thing which undermines claim is that Shi Zhengli who was in the research triangle decamped to wuhan when BO signed executive order to discontinue GOF project and allegedly was given millions by fauci to continue her work in China. also said she and others took materiel with them which might have escaped. This is properly understood as an accidental event. Secondly the claim that outbreak among Iranian elite in Qom might have been caused by agents expert in bioweapons is equally suspect as claim is based by Unz on the relative lack of contact between Chinese and this group. Well today’s news brings report that the Belt and Road initiative has come to Iran ! Not exactly good news either but that is another conversation. Clearly this project has been in planning for some time and the people who would negotiate it would be the political elites in Iran based in Qom. It is difficult to imagine this would not have entailed meetings between Chinese and Iranians for some time either conducted in Iran or other venues. Occam’s razor weighs in favor of this conclusion. Unverifiable speculation on source of virus is at this time completely counterproductive. I don’t agree with any form of censorship and do not think FB and Youtube should take contents down but I also think certain people need to think with a little more depth and discernment before opining on such an explosive topic.

  335. @Ron Unz

    Dear Ron!

    For those who are aware and acknowledge the King David Hotel & 9/11 False Flag attacks, the Lavon Affair, USS Liberty, and Kennedy assassinations, all will not be surprised that bio weapon (COV19) was created and planted in China first, & then Iran, by the Neocon Zionists; for example Bolton and Pompeo.

    Thank you, Ron.

    • Thanks: Iris
  336. Iris says:
    @Ron Unz

    Therefore, if he ignores (3), he’s left with (1) or (2), and since his connection with the Wuhan lab leads him to doubt the possibility of a lab-leak, he’s forced to claim the virus was natural, even if that seems scientifically implausible.

    French virologist Anne Goffard, specialist in coronaviruses, very respected and with no link to the Wuhan research, also was an early and consistent supporter of the natural origin of SARS-CoV2.

    She always offered a clear and simple argument in favour of the natural origin: the relatively slow rate of evolution of SARS-Cov2 within the human organism showing it was well accustomed to its host.

    https://www.20minutes.fr/sante/2898931-20201102-coronavirus-virologue-lilloise-anne-goffard-compile-sait-sars-cov-2
    https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-sars-cov-2-qua-t-on-appris-jusquici-146545#Echobox=1602615348

    If you allow me, the view that scientists are mostly motivated by selfish self-preservation in supporting the natural origin does not explain their views. Many also are caring and pacifist people, who well understand the terrible implications their expert judgement could have.

    In absence of definitive proof, they tend for the natural, less confrontational natural origin of SARS-Cov2 because it is what any decent and responsible person would do: in doubt, stir humankind away from the path to an all-out war.

    Conversely, this is also the principal reason why the US and Israel Deep States look even more contemptible and disgusting. They worsen the terrible Covid19 situation by stirring up the flames of geopolitical confrontation, without even providing any credible proof for their claims.

    It is a Judgement-of-Solomon type of situation, taken to the geopolitical level.

    Those with no love for humankind are ready to make the situation worst by waging war. Those with principles and scruples are ready to silence their suspicions to maintain peace.

    • Agree: Hughes
    • Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
  337. @Iris

    Did not France supply material and technical assistance to Israel in its nuclear “energy” development. Both have used this source of “clean” energy to make nuclear weapons. Both have enemies and are trending towards more civil unrest, and those “clean” reactors will always be targets by enemies foreign and domestic, not to mention an angry earth. So how anyone in the world can wave a flag of pure comfort and confidence in France’s nuclear energy program escapes me.

    Fact is, with the triple reactor meltdown at Fukushima in 2011, the odds of a nuclear core disaster have increased from one in ~70 years to one every ~seventeen. And eventually they may be going off like popcorn on the stovetop.

    Meanwhile, considering the rate and scale of genetic engineering, molecular biologists have lost all morality. For fame and money do they race ahead, not morality. Mistakes and malfeasance on the grandest scale are certain. Deployment as weapons too…

    If you think the nuclear physicists put humanity in a fix, just wait until the genetic engineers catch up.
    http://www.takepart.com/photos/genetically-engineered-mosquitos-fight-zika-see-12-other-animals-modified-lab/index.html

    • Agree: One-off
    • Replies: @Iris
  338. gay troll says:
    @ld

    You do excellent work. Bravo.

  339. gay troll says:
    @Ron Unz

    I’m friendly with quite a number of reasonably prominent journalists and academics, and several of them have found my biowarfare hypothesis pretty persuasive. But none of them would say so in a million years.

    Yeah sure, just like Larry Romanoff keeps all his citations locked away in a file cabinet.

    • Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
  340. Sean says:
    @Ron Unz

    (1) and (2) are not mutually exclusive. There is no question but that Shi went into caves several hundred miles away and got natural viruses, which were brought back to the Wuhan lab. They also had live bats there although Duszak vehemently denied it until a week ago. No scientist mentions the propinquity I notice. The debunking is of a very restricted allegation. Not the main one.

    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
  341. @gay troll

    A certain type of highly intelligent, good hearted but egotistical person, will always confuse politeness and kindness for agreement.

    “You’re just too intelligent for this subject”

    “That is very interesting”

    “I like how direct you are”

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  342. IMPORTANT QUESTION…. Assuming the top Luciferian Levels of the Illuminati exsist…. Then we can see how the Illuminati control The United Kingdom ( the primary hub of international money control thru the International Bankers such as the Rothschilds ), the spawn of the UK/German Illuminati which is the United States, Germany, Italy ( and the functioning of the Vatican and Jesuits ), France ( what was the true Function of the French Revolution? ) and it has been reported China, with some of the Li family being at the top of the Illuminati in China, Russia also has Illuminati forces hidden within the country. OK SO THE QUESTION IS TO WHAT EXTENT IS CHINA CONTROLLED BY LUCIFERIAN ILLUMINATI FORCES???? You need to follow the money, the Banking and Corporations in China. Remember the top of the Illuminati work together,(and sometimes fight among themselves) it does not matter which country they appear to represent, because for example the Chinese Illuminati do not care about the people of China….. The American Illuminati, like the Bushs and their Handmaidens the Clintons/Obama, do not care about the People of America. The British, French, German, Italian Illuminati set up WW1 and WW2. So asking the question…. Did the United States and Chinese and Globalist Illuminati…. such as Bill Gates, Fauci, WEF Schwab, Soros, Rothschild all work together to start the COVID/INJECTION Operation????? So you can’t just blame the United States or China, it was a Globalist Operation, by the World Deep Deep Dark State. They want us to hate each other worldwide.

    • Replies: @One-off
  343. Nancy says:
    @Anonymous

    Ah, the sweet sound of Termite terror! seems they might be losing…

  344. Nancy says:
    @ThreeCranes

    Well, isn’t Mossad very, very, very busy in Iran (in addition to bombing, etc)… they could, and would, buy anyone… perhaps the janitor? Didn’t we assasinate the Iranian war genius for Israel? Seems pretty simple, to me.

  345. @ghost of q.mensch

    Love Eric Clapton…..disturbing about his reaction to the jab.

    He once gave a fabulous slightly drunken rant regarding the foreign invasion of England, and of course he was labeled a “racist.”

  346. gay troll says:

    Even if the virus is naturally evolved, a lab leak cannot be ruled out. Labs store and conduct research upon naturally evolved viruses. Furthermore, it is ridiculous to recognize the obvious proximity of the WIV to the epicenter of the disease outbreak in China and invoke Occam’s razor (or whatever) to conclude that SARS CoV 2 leaked out of the WIV. It is ridiculous because there is hard proof of a BSL 3/4 laboratory leak in mid 2019, but it happened on U.S. soil. In the months after this leak, regarding which a CDC inspection report says a [redacted] pathogen or toxin was released, an unexplained epidemic of COVID like pneumonia sickened thousands of people who had a history of vaporizer use. Meanwhile, similar unexplained outbreaks of pneumonia afflicted senior care facilities near Fort Detrick, and the CDC forecast a horrendous death toll for the seasonal flu, which in hindsight failed to materialize. So follow the evidence. It would be easy enough for someone to seed SARS CoV 2 in Wuhan to distract the credulous from hard evidence of a leak on U.S. soil.

    And for anyone who says I’m wrong, take it to the CDC. Tell them to release their unredacted inspection report that led to the firing of the USAMRIID commander and the closure of the facility for eight months to remedy a failure of its waste decontamination system. Tell them to explain why they immediately associated a few dozen cases of pneumonia with vaporizers, despite (still) having no evidence to support their hypothesis, and an obvious conflict of interest in their longtime crusade against smoking and vaping.

    • Replies: @Bombercommand
  347. Iris says:
    @thotmonger

    Did not France supply material and technical assistance to Israel in its nuclear “energy” development.

    It certainly did in the 1950’s, first under the watch and control of Jewish Prime Minister Pierre Mendes France, and then under Prime minister Guy Mollet, who was a ardent Zionist militant.

    This support was reversed and entirely stopped under General De Gaulle, thanks to considerable support and influence from President Kennedy.

    http://solidarite-internationale-pcf.fr/article-1956-quand-les-socialistes-fran-ais-et-guy-mollet-livrent-la-technologie-nucleaire-a-israel-125139556.html

    However, Israel operates no nuclear power plants. All its nuclear production was/is dedicated to the fabrication of thermonuclear weapons.

    The Fukushima accident was caused by a long-identified human error, by hubris and corruption. It would have been easy to avoid if an outstanding technical recommendation to relocate emergency generators had been followed.

    The production of energy by nuclear sources is clean and carbon-free; it has a bright future and will not go away.
    We may be even luckier, thanks to the tremendous Chinese scientific effort, and conquer in the future the Holy Grail of nuclear fusion, which generates no radioactive wastes.

    • Replies: @thotmonger
  348. @Ron Unz

    the product of months of dedicated effort by a large team of top professionals rather than just a hobbyist-type undertaking by a solitary part-time blogger

    Was this team hired in advance and thus took part in the bioattack plan? In that case, didn’t any of those “top professionals” suspect that there would be a blowback and a global pandemic would ensue? Or were they hired after the fact, as damage control?

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  349. @anonymous

    “China has had recent mysterious plagues affecting its farm animals, again incurring economic loss.”

    This is a point Ron has made – but isn’t it true that most of these viral diseases have in recent history come from China, owing to

    a) close proximity between domestic animals and humans (probably changing now as more people move to towns)
    b) the Chinese considering anything that walks, flies, crawls, slithers or swims to be food?

    • Troll: d dan, Mulga Mumblebrain
    • Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
  350. Liza says:

    The idea that viruses, bacteria, etc. are the basic cause of those clusters of symptoms we call “infections” is truly the worst thing to come down the pike since the dawn of time.

    However, it is not good enough to notice presence of symptoms + presence of “pathogens” and say, “Voila! Eureka! We’ve got the cause of disease!” You have to prove cause and effect. This has never been done. Even thousands of years ago, painful or uncomfortable symptoms, sometimes resulting in death, were attributed to evil spirits, angry gods or the appearance of certain constellations. SMH. Now, they just call these entities “germs”and say it’s “science”.

    Maybe there is pre-existing pathology, and nature sends in bacteria, viruses, etc. to clean it all up. But admitting this would mean we are responsible for our own health. That will never do, will it: easier to stick your arm out and beg to be poisoned so that you don’t have to wise up.

    • Thanks: John Fisher
    • Replies: @John Fisher
  351. @YetAnotherAnon

    It doesn’t even need a China specific reason, though good ones exist. Britain, with 1/24 of the population, so perhaps 1/24 probability of major agricultural diseases, has suffered 2 devastating outbreaks in the last few decades; along with plenty of minor ones.

    BSE and Foot & Mouth were a complete horror – piles of cow carcasses, burned by the army, with poor English farmers, being found swinging from the beams in their barns.

    This could be used to question and make safer the industrial rearing of animals, or it could be used for an entirely speculative, convoluted rant about “US deep state Neocons” trying to destroy the British Beef industry.

    If I were to advocate the latter, my long-standing friends would treat me politely too.

  352. @gay troll

    Neither of the two senior care facilities you cite are anywhere near Fort Detrick. Both are south of Washington DC. Explain to me why there are no “mysterious outbreaks” in Washington DC, which is closer to Fort Detrick, or in any of the communities between DC and Fort Detrick, or any “mysterious outbreaks” in Frederick Maryland, the location of Fort Detrick. Regarding the vaping, I have seen the kids vaping, the massive amounts of smoke they exhale make a cigar look like nothing. My first thought was vaping must be really hard on the lungs. People developing a lung condition from vaping is entirely understandable. You just won’t face the facts. The Wuhan Institute of Virology was conducting experiments with virus chimera very similar to SARS-CoV2 under completely inadequate BSL-2 conditions, and the epidemic started in Wuhan. It is impossible to avoid the obvious conclusion.

    • Troll: Mulga Mumblebrain
  353. chrimony says:
    @Ron Unz

    Most of your points support the artificial virus theory, which I fully endorse.

    And yet you don’t answer the main question I posed to you regarding this:

    “If you want to put me in a box, I’m pro-truth and pro doing what is right. That’s why I’m willing to criticize the US just as much as China on this insanely dangerous gain-of-function research that was initiated by the US and funded by the US, and spread to China with US support. Do you not have anything to say about this research?

    I checked, and although my numerous Covid articles from the last 14 months had together attracted around 10,000 comments, not a single one of those came from you, so it’s possible that you haven’t bothered reading them.

    As I’ve already said, I read your original article positing the bioweapon theory, and I considered it plausible at the time, but after further thought and given new facts, I rejected it in favor of the Occam’s Razor lab leak scenario.

    If not, you really should, because they directly addressed many of the issues you’re currently raising, and it’s pointless for me to just repeat my arguments in this thread.

    This is a copout. You’ve spent several posts trying to argue your case. Handwaving at your rather wordy articles to bolster it now is weak sauce. But I did read over the original one again, and I read the most relevant recent one for this discussion, which covers the Nicholas Wade article, and bemoans that he doesn’t go into bioweapon theory:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-truth-and-the-whole-truth-on-the-origins-of-covid-19/

    The only line of evidence not already discussed here worth bringing up is what you consider the “smoking gun”:

    “According to these multiply-sourced mainstream media accounts, by “the second week of November” our Defense Intelligence Agency was already preparing a secret report warning of a “cataclysmic” disease outbreak taking place in Wuhan. Yet at that point, probably no more than a couple of dozen individuals had been infected in that city of 11 million, with few of those yet having any serious symptoms. The implications are rather obvious.”

    Except I already shared a link showing that hospitals in Wuhan were unusually busy around September/October, so it’s quite possible they picked up on something. And considering that we’re talking about spooks, it’s also quite possible that they picked up on chatter that might have accompanied a lab leak.

    By the way, not even once do you mention the phrase “gain-of-function” when discussing Nicholas Wade’s bombshell article. That’s the whole damn story.

  354. Iris says:

    Hua Chunying, official spokesperson for the Chinese Foreign Ministry, is reporting on her Twitter account the recent US study suggesting that Covid19 was present in the US as early as December 2019:

    To which Lijian Zhao adds up:

    • LOL: Bombercommand
  355. RobinG says:
    @Skeptikal

    Grammar Nazis are engaged in pettifoggery.

    And the phrase implies “like I am” so who’s the fool.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  356. Mark Hunter says: • Website
    @IvyMike

    Yours is a typical conspiracy theory in that you’re finding more facts to support it than the truth would ever have.

    What a silly thing to say. Conjectures should be economical with the truth perhaps?

    “Don Ron” and “typical conspiracy theory” dosn’t require comment.

    The point about blowback has been addressed many times. (1) Previous Chinese epidemics had been contained within China, the psychopaths responsible for the covid-19 outbreak may have thought it would happen again. (2) The West was supposed to have the best methods of fighting epidemics. (3) Psychopaths are unconcerned about other people. (4) Neocons aren’t known for seeing ahead.

    • Replies: @Iris
  357. @Liza

    It’s good to see you back spreading truth in a COVID hoax thread, Liza.

    The idea that viruses, bacteria, etc. are the basic cause of those clusters of symptoms we call “infections” is truly the worst thing to come down the pike since the dawn of time.

    It is the truly best thing to come down the pike for the misnamed health-care industry (should be called sickness industry) and its pharmaceutical industrial complex. With the addition of Big Ag into the mix, it’s a troika of anti-humanity, all getting rich at the expense of health and wellness.

    • Thanks: Liza
  358. Iris says:
    @Mark Hunter

    (5) And last but not least, Covid19 offered the psychopaths an extraordinary opportunity to re-gain control over the otherwise crashing Western economy.

    Many master plans seem to have been ready in the pipeline, just waiting for the Covid19 pandemic to break out and offer the opportunity to roll them out:

    – The re-shaping of globalisation, excluding those nation rebelling against the status quo, on the basis of the vaccination fracture lines.
    – A brand new US-led “Build Back Better ” developmental initiative to counter the Chinese “Belt and Road Initiative”.
    – A new climate change crusade and an eerily ambitious “energy transition”, justifying further rent extraction by the oligarchy, both domestically and internationally.
    – A timely woke LGBTQ/BLM/MeToo mish-mash agenda, to replace the exhausted values of the “rules-based international order”.
    – A perpetual excuse (the Covid19 variants), allowing to crush any contestation of the above.

    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
  359. Winston says:
    @Ron Unz

    You insist the unexplained respiratory illnesses in Fort Detrick is not Covid because the virus is too contagious for anyone not to notice back in 2019. Have you considered the possibility that the virus would evolve to be more contagious over time?

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  360. Ron Unz says:
    @Brás Cubas

    the product of months of dedicated effort by a large team of top professionals rather than just a hobbyist-type undertaking by a solitary part-time blogger

    Was this team hired in advance and thus took part in the bioattack plan? In that case, didn’t any of those “top professionals” suspect that there would be a blowback and a global pandemic would ensue? Or were they hired after the fact, as damage control?

    Obviously, this is all totally speculative, and it’s perfectly possible that I’m entirely wrong and Deigin did pop up out of nowhere to single-handedly produce his massive scientific opus.

    But under my scenario, the conspirators heavily promoted the Wuhan lab-leak story to blame China, which required an artificial virus, and were taken aback when the Trump-hating MSM fully endorsed the (dishonest) natural virus theory endorsed by the Lancet and Nature Medicine letters. So maybe Pompeo went to the CIA or something and had them draw on their scientific resources to produce a massive research paper supporting an engineered virus, which they then got Deigin to front.

    It’s quite possible that microbiology experts brought in unaware of the biowarfare attack, and since the virus was pretty clearly artificial, they just had to put together a lot of convincing evidence supporting that reality, though they probably would have just as soon produced a fraudulent theory if so ordered.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Brás Cubas
  361. Ron Unz says:
    @chrimony

    Except I already shared a link showing that hospitals in Wuhan were unusually busy around September/October, so it’s quite possible they picked up on something. And considering that we’re talking about spooks, it’s also quite possible that they picked up on chatter that might have accompanied a lab leak.

    The claim that Wuhan hospitals were already overflowing with Covid patients in Sept/Oct of 2019 is total garbage, and almost certainly the product of CIA-type disinfo once the conspirators realized the gigantic Oops! of disclosing the existence of the secret DIA report distributed in November. It’s basically aimed at people who don’t understand exponential curves. I’ve already addressed the issue on several occasional occasions, so including providing a link upthread, which I’ll now repeat:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-truth-and-the-whole-truth-on-the-origins-of-covid-19/?showcomments#comment-4654470

    Absent strong public health measures, Covid infections tend to double every 3-5 days so if Wuhan hospitals had been overflowing in Sept/Oct, tens of millions of Chinese would have been infected by the end of the year, rather than the few dozen or so detected cases.

    The whole theory is just as absurd as the pro-China propaganda that Covid had began circulating in the US during summer 2019, and nobody noticed for seven or eight months.

    • Replies: @chrimony
    , @Herd Stupidity
  362. Ron Unz says:
    @Winston

    You insist the unexplained respiratory illnesses in Fort Detrick is not Covid because the virus is too contagious for anyone not to notice back in 2019. Have you considered the possibility that the virus would evolve to be more contagious over time?

    The likelihood of a virus mutating is generally proportional to the number of infections, so these increasingly contagious mutations appeared where there were many hundreds of thousands or even millions of infected individuals. Since India has the worst outbreak, it’s hardly surprising that it supposedly produced the R0-6-7 variety.

    Yet the “Ft. Detrick theory” is that so few Americans became infected during 2019 that nobody noticed and there certainly wasn’t any epidemic. Therefore, the likelihood of your mutation would be very low.

    Moreover, the theory seems to be that the mutation first appeared in Wuhan, which is why the visible outbreak occurred there. That’s even more implausible than any random natural mutation.

    Finally, as others have pointed out, all the characteristics of the 2019 American illnesses were entirely dissimilar from Covid, and there’s no antibody evidence of Covid on American soil at that time. So it obviously wasn’t Covid.

    • Replies: @gay troll
  363. @Iris

    The anthropogenic climate destabilsation dimension of this contrived crisis will prove the most deadly, the veritable coup de grace.
    ACD is indisputably true, but has been hijacked by the usual ghouls for their nefarious purposes. Thus the ignorant, brainwashed, anti-Green Right are recruited to the denialist death-cult, foolishly thinking that they are opposing the oligarchs, when these parasites are using them. Using them to protect fossil fuel profits and assets, the greatest store of wealth on the planet, and using them to promote ecological devastation, a catastrophe that the blood-suckers plan to survive, while the ‘useless eaters’ are exterminated, even the denialist dead-heads. This the way the world ends-brought down by the insatiably greedy and the insufferably moronic.

    • Troll: Schuetze
    • Replies: @Iris
  364. dms578 says:
    @Chris Moore

    no sir it is not strange nor the fact that it seemed restricted to the political elites in Qom. In today’s news it is reported that the belt and road initiative has come to Iran. Clearly this has been worked on at the highest levels of political life in Iran whether in Qom or some other location. I saw what Unz said in such conspiratorial fashion and immediately checked on status of road and belt in the country and lo and behold there it was. This is more likely the explanation for the occurrence of outbreak than a group of “spooks” from our intelligence agencies who are trained to a level of expertise that allows for such an operation. These guys are lucky they don’t shoot themselves in the foot. Kinda like prince philip engineered a car crash in a underground pass in Paris to off Diana. How ridiculous. It is 100% certain this is how it happened may never be known a good sardonic laugh at Unz’s constant harping on everything being explained by conspiracy like “zionist psychotics” on warpath causing 9/11. I live in NYC and my brother was involved at the highest level of investigation in aftermath of event and I can tell you what you think is garbage. the public in this country is insane. I also believe that DJT would never agree to complicity for any personal motive about these events. I can read these sites and retain sanity it appears not too many can.

    • Replies: @Ryan2
    , @bike-anarkist
  365. chrimony says:
    @Ron Unz

    I notice, once again, you fail to address my main question. The question applies regardless if the bioweapon theory is true or not:

    “If you want to put me in a box, I’m pro-truth and pro doing what is right. That’s why I’m willing to criticize the US just as much as China on this insanely dangerous gain-of-function research that was initiated by the US and funded by the US, and spread to China with US support. Do you not have anything to say about this research?

    You did not mention “gain-of-function” research once in your review of Wade’s article. Why is that? Why is your laser focus on putting the blame on an invisible group that will never have to answer questions, while ignoring the insanely dangerous research that’s been going on, in public, for years, and helped along by media saints like Fauci? If anything can come out of this, we can at least all agree that this insane research needs to end, right?

    Absent strong public health measures, Covid infections tend to double every 3-5 days so if Wuhan hospitals had been overflowing in Sept/Oct, tens of millions of Chinese would have been infected by the end of the year, rather than the few dozen or so detected cases.

    Busier doesn’t mean overflowing. And a “few dozen” detected cases in December is surely the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the actual number of cases. And remember, YOUR claim has been that the virus was spread in China under the “cover” of the world military games, which ended in October. So by that standard, it had two months of exponential growth to spread — but here you are citing “the few dozen or so detected cases”.

    Keep your story straight?

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  366. @chrimony

    Racists like you often use the denigratory term ‘chatter’ when referring to the lesser races.

    • Troll: chrimony
  367. Ron Unz says:
    @Triteleia Laxa

    A certain type of highly intelligent, good hearted but egotistical person, will always confuse politeness and kindness for agreement.

    It’s perfectly possible that for egotistical reasons I’ve entirely misinterpreted the seemingly supportive private notes I’ve received from various journalists and academics. For example, after publishing my previous article an eminent scholar sent me the following short note:

    This is an absolutely brilliant logic. You’ve convinced me.

    Perhaps he was just being polite and I merely saw what I wanted to see.

    Obviously, the theory that an exceptionally reckless biowarfare attack on China (and Iran) ended up killing over 600,000 Americans is a little too “touchy” a subject for many people to freely discuss. But in the past some of my other work has won considerable public praise, so I don’t think my claims are entirely implausible. For example, my big Meritocracy article in late 2012 was ranked as probably the best American article published that year by David Brooks of the NYT and also by a top Economist editor:

    And a few years later, quite a number of highly-regarded academics and journalists were willing to provide some very generous blurbs to the collection of essays that I published:

    https://www.unz.com/ebook/the-meritocracy-collection-ebook/#cover-quotes

    • Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
    , @Incitatus
  368. @Sean

    Your barely disguised racist implication is that ONLY Shi and her team collect bat corona-viruses. That is bizarrely untrue, as the US has collected them from numerous sites over the bats’ natural range. And every type of interesting biological specimen that they can lay their hands on, over many decades.

    • Replies: @Bombercommand
    , @Sean
  369. Polemos says:
    @steinbergfeldwitzcohen

    The West has yet to wrap its head around the appearance of death, the accumulation of karma and the descent into hell.

    What do you mean by this? Could you elaborate?

  370. Ron Unz says:
    @chrimony

    You did not mention “gain-of-function” research once in your review of Wade’s article. Why is that?

    Because it’s totally irrelevant. I think 95% of the people currently ranting about “Gain of Function” had never even heard the term until a few weeks ago when the talking-heads on FoxNews and CNN began spouting it 24/7 in the wake of Wade’s important article.

    Everyone even moderately interested has known for a year or more that the NIH had provided much of the funding for the Wuhan lab’s virus research via Daszak’s organization, and that such research including enhancing the characteristics of viruses, i.e. GoF. I read the long Deigin article when it appeared in April 2020 and also the long and persuasive 12,000 word cover-story by Nicholas Baker when it appeared in January 2021. As Wade himself emphasized, nearly all the facts he discussed had been publicly known for a year or more but had simply been ignored by the Trump-hating American MSM.

    The Wuhan lab did research enhancing viruses. So what? Many, many other labs, most of them American and some of them secret biowarfare sites, do exactly the same sort of research. The only reason people point at the Wuhan lab is because it’s in Wuhan:

    https://www.unz.com/wwebb/bats-gene-editing-and-bioweapons-recent-darpa-experiments-raise-concerns-amid-coronavirus-outbreak/

    https://www.unz.com/article/was-coronavirus-a-biowarfare-attack-against-china/

    • Agree: Iris
  371. @Ron Unz

    OK!

    Please do consider also writing an article criticising “gain of function” research. Whatever you need to believe, you must also see that it is a very dangerous process, that could easily have led to this situation, as lab leaks happen a lot. The benefit is clearly outweighed by the cost.

    [MORE]

    I swear my sister might be your twin. The age gap is very big, but it is kind of amazing! This is exactly the type of response she would give.

    I love her very much, but “change” for her, “is a betrayal of everything” she is. I’ve given up intervening, as she is on her own journey.

    Thank you for hosting this site. It is excellent. As far as I’ve read them, I disagree with all of your articles, but I like different opinions.

  372. Anonymous[144] • Disclaimer says:
    @Iris

    Who in his right mind would augment a disease causer? This is like saying that only “virgins” would oppose improving methods of torture because they might provide useful information. Yeah right. You are smarter than we are.

  373. chrimony says:
    @Ron Unz

    Because it’s [gain-of-function research] totally irrelevant.

    Thanks for finally answering the question, and exposing exactly where you stand. You’d rather laser focus on an invisible, shadowy group that, even if they exist, will never be held to account, while ignoring insanely dangerous research that goes on in public with taxpayer dollars.

    I think 95% of the people currently ranting about “Gain of Function” had never even heard the term until a few weeks ago when the talking-heads on FoxNews and CNN began spouting it 24/7 in the wake of Wade’s important article.

    THAT is irrelevant. It’s what we do once gain knowledge of the facts, not how late we came to them or by who.

    The Wuhan lab did research enhancing viruses. So what? Many, many other labs, most of them American and some of them secret biowarfare sites, do exactly the same sort of research.

    What the fuck is this? Is the research insanely dangerous or not? How do you ever expect secret research to stop if you just give the open research a free pass? And do you think having more of this research done, out in the public, while you just shrug your shoulders at it, is a good thing? What the fuck is wrong with you?

    The only reason people point at the Wuhan lab is because it’s in Wuhan:

    Well duh. I’ll repeat what I said earlier: “But for such a suspicious fellow, you seem awfully nonchalant about a lab conducting gain-of-function research on bat coronaviruses in a city where a novel bat coronavirus emerges.”

    https://www.unz.com/wwebb/bats-gene-editing-and-bioweapons-recent-darpa-experiments-raise-concerns-amid-coronavirus-outbreak/

    All gain-of-function research should be shut down, everywhere. I’ve explicitly been critical of the US’s role in doing this research and spreading it to China. After this pandemic, now would be a good time to push to shut it all down. But you’d rather point the finger at invisible men.

    • LOL: Iris
    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @Mark Hunter
  374. Mark Hunter says: • Website
    @gatobart

    We should give as much credence to covid-19 actually being discovered in Spanish wastewater March 2019 as to government granted research claiming that Ivermectin and HCQ+Zinc are useless in treating the virus, that is, no credence at all.

    The following is from a comment of R.U.’s on his “American Pravda: ‘The Truth’ and ‘The Whole Truth’ About the Origins of Covid-19”:

    The problem is those evidentiary claims are utterly non-credible, as I had already explained in my previous article.  … the only people who promote them are incompetent Chinese propagandists, who thereby make all their other arguments look ridiculous.
    unz.com/runz/american-pravda-covid-19-its-impact-and-origins-after-one-year/#pro-chinese-counter-propaganda

  375. @Iris

    She always offered a clear and simple argument in favour of the natural origin: the relatively slow rate of evolution of SARS-Cov2 within the human organism showing it was well accustomed to its host

    How would it be “well accustomed” without gain of function experimentation or a trail of infection stretching back years?

  376. @Ron Unz

    The only reason people point at the Wuhan lab is because it’s in Wuhan

    That, and it is the world-leading lab for research into bat coronaviruses.

    A person, who is obsessed with strangling, is found over a dead body, that has been strangled. That is “the only reason people point at” him as the most likely suspect!

    • Replies: @annamaria
  377. Iris says:
    @Mulga Mumblebrain

    For what it’s worth, and I hope that will cheer you up, there is a large array of brand new energy technologies that are being developed which will greatly reduce the carbon footprint of human activity.

    The most polluting and problematic activity always was, by far, transportation. It is the largest consumer of fossil fuels which cannot be substituted, unlike the power industry where renewable/clean energies, such as nuclear, solar, wind, biomass, and gas to a certain extent, have slowly displaced coal.

    The future of transportation energy seems to be hydrogen fuel cells that will replace oil. When this happens, it will be a revolution that will re-shape the world, since energy is the number one global commodity.

    The US’ problem is that China is the most advanced country in Hydrogen technology, and the only one capable of developing a hydrogen transport and distribution network along its future BRI outpost. Such technological shift already represents the end of the USA’s economic domination, and the end the US dollar largely based on oil trade.

    The energy technology transition I am describing is not a pie-in-the-sky; it is a scenario that is already materialising in Germany and France, while China is much further ahead. But the US hasn’t made any such progress and is much lagging behind in civilian R&D, so the Covid19 pandemic was a providential , “miraculous” opportunity to slow things down and try to take back control.

    Ultimately,Mr Unz is providing a great patriotic service to his country, by telling the truth about the incompetent and criminals who are compromising its future.
    There is a bright new world rising to the East, made of hard work, science, research, progress, and commitment to the common good and to the future generations. On the other hand, in our Western world, we are lead by utter charlatans and criminals whose only skills are self-serving scheming, mass murder, and short-sighted conspiracies. When are we going to realise we have lost our civilisation by our own doing, instead of blaming the Chinese?

    • Agree: Mulga Mumblebrain
    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
    , @cranc
  378. utu says:

    The COVID lab-leak hypothesis: what scientists do and don’t know (08 June 2021)
    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01529-3

    Does the virus have features that suggest it was created in a lab?

    Several researchers have looked into whether features of SARS-CoV-2 signal that it was bioengineered. One of the first teams to do so, led by Kristian Andersen, a virologist at Scripps Research in La Jolla, California, determined that this was “improbable” for a few reasons, including a lack of signatures of genetic manipulation6. Since then, others have asked whether the virus’s furin cleavage site — a feature that helps it to enter cells — is evidence of engineering, because SARS-CoV-2 has these sites but its closest relatives don’t. The furin cleavage site is important because it’s in the virus’s spike protein, and cleavage of the protein at that site is necessary for the virus to infect cells.

    But many other coronaviruses have furin cleavage sites, such as coronaviruses that cause colds7. Because viruses containing the site are scattered across the coronavirus family tree, rather than confined to a group of closely related viruses, Stephen Goldstein, a virologist at the University of Utah in Salt Lake City, says the site probably evolved multiple times because it provides an evolutionary advantage. Convergent evolution — the process by which organisms that aren’t closely related independently evolve similar traits as a result of adapting to similar environments — is incredibly common.

    nother feature of SARS-CoV-2 that has drawn attention is a combination of nucleotides that underlie a segment of the furin cleavage site: CGG (these encode the amino acid arginine). A Medium article that speculates on a lab origin for SARS-CoV-2 quotes David Baltimore, a Nobel laureate and professor emeritus at the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena, as saying that viruses don’t usually have that particular code for arginine, but humans often do — a “smoking gun”, hinting that researchers might have tampered with SARS-CoV-2’s genome.

    Andersen says that Baltimore was incorrect about that detail, however. In SARS-CoV-2, about 3% of the nucleotides encoding arginine are CGG, he says. And he points out that around 5% of those encoding arginine in the virus that caused the original SARS epidemic are CGG, too. In an e-mail to Nature, Baltimore says Andersen could be correct that evolution produced SARS-CoV-2, but adds that “there are other possibilities and they need careful consideration, which is all I meant to be saying”.

    Furin cleavage sites naturally occur in coronaviruses ( January 2021)
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1873506120304165?via%3Dihub

    • Thanks: Brás Cubas
  379. @Mulga Mumblebrain

    Except that the bumbling Dr Shi performed her experiments with dangerous bat virus and virus chimera in a BSL-2 level lab, THE BIOSAFETY LEVEL OF A DENTIST’S OFFICE. A breach of containment was inevitable. The epidemic started in Wuhan and the bumbling Dr Shi’s lab is in Wuhan.

  380. @Ron Unz

    One Russian scientist said that bats come from a different part of China, and that no infections were found in the meat in those markets in the south of China where these bats come from.

    The only conclusion from him being that it could only have been a man-made virus.

  381. Ron Unz says:
    @chrimony

    What the fuck is this? Is the research insanely dangerous or not? How do you ever expect secret research to stop if you just give the open research a free pass? And do you think having more of this research done, out in the public, while you just shrug your shoulders at it, is a good thing? What the fuck is wrong with you?…All gain-of-function research should be shut down, everywhere.

    Look, “Gain of Function” is just a suddenly popular MSM buzzword, but although I’ve never had a huge interest in the subject, I’ve been aware of the biological enhancement of viruses for decades. Lots of different innocuous justifications are given, but I’ve always assumed the main reason was the production of powerful bioweapons, and everything that has become known during the last year seems to support that conclusion.

    Personally, I think bioweapons are a bad idea and should be banned, but I would have said the same thing twenty years ago. I think Nixon actually signed an anti-biowarfare treaty with the Soviets fifty years ago, but some time after the USSR fell, America renounced it and also absorbed all the old Soviet biowarfare research. For decades, the US has certainly had the world’s largest and most advanced biowarfare program.

    Go ahead and try to ban bioweapons—I wish you the best of luck. Maybe you should also try to ban nuclear weapons while you’re at it.

    Incidentally, here’s a bit of political advice. If Americans believe Covid came from a Wuhan lab-leak and therefore was probably a Chinese bioweapon, they’ll naturally support a major expansion of America’s own gigantic biowarfare program.

    But if Americans somehow became convinced that Covid was an *American* bioweapon and that over 600,000 of our citizens died because it was recklessly used to attack China (and Iran), there’s actually some slight chance they might demand that our biowarfare research be sharply curtailed.

    So maybe that’s the propaganda-line you should be taking, especially since it probably happens to be true…

    • Replies: @Dnought
    , @chrimony
  382. @chrimony

    Every writer knows the dictum “delimit your subject.”  Focus is the basis of clarity and persuasiveness.

    R.U.’s focus here is: Who caused the Covid-19 pandemic?  The advisability of GoF research is totally irrelevant to that question.

    Now it wouldn’t be surprising if R.U. in fact agrees that GoF research should not be funded but that is a different subject and addressing it would just clutter up his argument.

    I wrote the above before R.U. replied.

  383. One-off says:
    @ImaBotKnot

    China truly has arrived when it has added to the ranks of the Illuminati.

  384. Matt B says:

    Hi Mr Unz,

    I remember comments about that years US team sent to the Military Games performing unusually badly,
    most of the US competitors are pro or semi pro athletes and the US usually scores high, in 2019 the US team came in 30th overall,

    maybe you don’t send top rate athletes if you’re distributing a bio weapon that could destroy their careers and make them un co-operative in your scheme?

    also the US military decided pretty early in the outbreak that they wouldn’t recruit anyone who had caught the virus,
    as if they knew or suspected it was a bio weapon and could have longterm effects, long covid, permanent lung damage, blood clots etc.

    I agree on John Bolton and Mike Pompeo as likely conspiritors, they are both neocons and barking mad,
    so recall the PNAC documents, the Project for a New American Century, the neocon think tank effort, it laid out plans to set the Middle East on fire, rebuild the US military to achieve full spectrum dominance of the planet etc. etc.

    one section of the documents talked about bio weapons and the possibility of tailoring bio weapons to target specific ethnic groups,

    there are US bio labs all over the world, that one in Georgia that people have been very suspicious of , the collecting of Russian tissue samples for ‘research’ which un nerved some Russians, ‘are they trying to make a Slav killer virus?’
    there’s a whole bunch of US labs in the Ukraine now,

    the neocons obviously have a massive boner for the idea of a virus that could target ethnicities, maybe Bolton and Pompeo hoped covid would just kill Chinese people and not work in the West?

    maybe they had a Persian covid lined up for the Iranians?
    there were already three significant variants by the time covid established itself in the US,
    but now with it all over the world, using millions of people as hosts to practice mutating in, it still seems to take several months for a new variant to emerge,
    why already 3 distinct variants only a few months in?

    I’m not enthusiastic about getting the vaccine, I wonder if you take a hastily created vaccine for a dodgy bio weapon you could end up getting an adverse reaction like that which became known as Gulf War Syndrome,
    or even collapse playing soccer with a stopped heart due to heart muscle inflamation,

    anyway, I love your analysis because I got really suspicious when Iranian elites started dying,
    I felt vindicated when you published your theory!

    • Replies: @Dnought
  385. @ghost of q.mensch

    What a joke. The self described “ renegade” EC, just couldn’t wait to roll up his sleeve and be injected with an experimental Big Pharma/wall st bankster, frankenshot. Some non- conformist. Just another corporate stooge, boomer cuck.

    • Troll: Mulga Mumblebrain
  386. gatobart says:
    @Mark Hunter

    Sorry pal, but if there is one thing that reeks of propaganda here, that is your comment. Any comment which starts telling me “what I should believe” can only come from someone who is trying to prepare me for the ingestion of his own personal Absolute Truth. First, you try to discredit without any solid proof or evidence what Spanish researchers claim as if they weren’t to be trusted just because, well, because they are Spanish and so not members of your favorite tribe…? But you really clinched it when you talk about “Chinese propaganda”. That is a giveaway, I don’t need to go any further to see that you are yourself the one trying to push your own propaganda here. Bye.

    Next time when you try to push your own propaganda on people try ti be a little more subtle.

    • Agree: Mulga Mumblebrain
  387. Dnought says:
    @Matt B

    The US has never done really well at the Military Games, and has been on a steady downward slope in terms of “medals won” since the first games in 1995. The US finished 35th in 2019. In 2015 the US finished 23rd; in 2011 the US finished 16th; in 2007, 15th; in 2003, 16th; in 1999, 8th; in the first Military Games in 1995, also 8th.

    Kind of looks like a trend to me.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @Matt B
  388. gay troll says:
    @Bombercommand

    Do you think Dr. Shi invented SARS COV 2? It might as well be Ralph Baric’s chimeric SARS CoV. Do you think these viruses are not also studied at USAMRIID? The CDC holds the patent on the original SARS genome. Do you think Chinese researchers would be allowed to have access to viruses that American researchers do not? Even if SARS CoV 2 is an offshored GoF project, the finished product would have been returned to the U.S. for study. This isn’t an arms race, at least, not one with counterparties. Bio “defense” research is globalized.

    • Replies: @Bombercommand
  389. Dnought says:
    @Ron Unz

    But if Americans somehow became convinced that Covid was an *American* bioweapon and that over 600,000 of our citizens died because it was recklessly used to attack China (and Iran), there’s actually some slight chance they might demand that our biowarfare research be sharply curtailed.

    Actually if they really “became convinced that Covid was an *American* bioweapon….recklessly used to attack China (and Iran)”, I would think that “biowarfare research (might) be sharply curtailed” would be the least of the perpetrators problems.

  390. gay troll says:
    @Ron Unz

    all the characteristics of the 2019 American illnesses were entirely dissimilar from Covid

    This is patently false. Would you say the characteristics of severe flu are entirely dissimilar from COVID? Because the only thing that could distinguish EVALI from a severe flu was a negative flu test. Read what the CDC says. EVALI exactly resembled an infectious pneumonia. It could only be diagnosed when tests for all other respiratory illnesses came back negative. Its rate of intubations and fatalities compared to hospitalizations was virtually identical to COVID. “Both” diseases were characterized by unusual “ground glass opacities” in radiographic images of the lungs. The only thing that differentiates these diseases is the misinformation about them provided about them by the CDC. And you.

  391. utu says:
    @Ron Unz

    So maybe Pompeo went to the CIA or something and had them draw on their scientific resources to produce a massive research paper supporting an engineered virus, which they then got Deigin to front.

    So I tried find more on Deigin. It seems he doesn’t have degree in biology:

    https://lifeboat.com/ex/bios.yuri.deigin

    2001- Bachelor’s degree in Science in the fields of Computer Science and Mathemathematics at U of Toronto

    2001-2008 – Software Engineer at IBM

    2010 -MBA from the Columbia Business School at Columbia University

    Since 2013 – serves as the Vice President of the nonprofit Foundation, Science for Life Extension, whose goal is the popularization of the fight against age-related diseases

    COO and Managing Director at Pharma Bio in Moscow for almost 7 years

    2015 – 2017, Yuri was the Vice President of Business Development at Manus Pharmaceuticals in Toronto, Canada where he worked on raising funding and forming strategic partnerships

    His life goal is to do everything possible to minimize human suffering from various diseases, especially terminal age-related diseases such as cancer, Alzheimer’s, and cardiovascular disease and to help humanity eradicate them. As an activist, blogger, and speaker, he is conveying the magnitude of human suffering these diseases cause, as they take over 100,000 lives each day. As a biotech entrepreneur, Yuri is doing his modest part by putting together projects that could yield such therapies, splitting his time between Toronto and Moscow

    The question is what were the circumstances and arrangements of him getting into Covid-19 origins debate. Karl Sirotkin and Dan Sirotkin should be persons of interest.

  392. chrimony says:
    @Ron Unz

    Look, “Gain of Function” is just a suddenly popular MSM buzzword, but although I’ve never had a huge interest in the subject, I’ve been aware of the biological enhancement of viruses for decades. Lots of different innocuous justifications are given, but I’ve always assumed the main reason was the production of powerful bioweapons, and everything that has become known during the last year seems to support that conclusion.

    That doesn’t make any sense. Why would you publish open research into bioweapons, and not only that, fund said research with your adversaries? Do you think anything through, or have you turned that hammer you’ve been wielding in search of nails on your brain?

    I take them at their word, that they think they’re trying to do good by getting ahead of the next SARS or MERS. But in this case they ended up creating it without any advance benefit — as was warned about.

    But if Americans somehow became convinced that Covid was an *American* bioweapon and that over 600,000 of our citizens died because it was recklessly used to attack China (and Iran), there’s actually some slight chance they might demand that our biowarfare research be sharply curtailed.

    Never gonna happen, because there’s no evidence for it besides your weak associations, and the much more mundane, in-your-face evidence is a Wuhan leak using US tax dollars to spread insanely dangerous gain-of-function research pioneered in the US to our adversaries.

    I don’t need your fringe theory when I have Jon Stewart doing a Tom Cruise couch-jumping routine on the Colbert Show telling his audience that the emperor has no clothes — and they responded favorably. Now that Trump is out of office, and the Wade article has broke the dam, maybe saner heads can prevail and this research will be curbed.

    So maybe that’s the propaganda-line you should be taking, especially since it probably happens to be true…

    I don’t take a propaganda line. That’s your department. I use Occam’s Razor, where as you use Unz’s Hammer.

    • Replies: @Sean
    , @Brás Cubas
  393. Sean says:
    @Mulga Mumblebrain

    The propinquity bespeaks connection, the scientist ought to be asked to take that and not just taxonomy into account when giving an opinion. Trump is gone now so what’s the problem? The SARS-like disease epidemic in factory farmed pigs was only 60 miles from where the 2002 human SARS outbreak in China occurred. Wuhan is several hundred miles away from the village where Shi founded people has antibodies to SARS, apparently from bats flying over the village and crap being inhaled that contained SARS-like coronaviruses. But there was no meaningful disease at all, and certainly no evidence of human–human transmission.

    True enough, Shi was one of many scientists working worldwide on bat diseases that could jump into humans, but no foreign scientist was gathering as much samples from wild bats in Chin as she, and in fact she got samples of everything that they got in China because she accompanied them. At finding bats with coronavirus resembling SARS, Shi was the the global go-to scientist for 16 years. Shi herself admitted she was worried that the outbreak was a result of her work, so it was hardly a racist idea. I don’t think that her current assurances that she checked all the samples against the Covid-19 pathogen without finding a match is exculpatory even if true.

    Her Wuhan lab processed fifteen thousand samples from bats potentially harbouring novel coronaviruses, which means there was a tremendous amount of interaction between the Wuhan staff and wild bats in remote caves and the famous mineshaft. Clearly their handing and exuding in airborne viral particles that could be breathed in by researcher at the remote site is a possible vector for a outbreak getting back to Wuhan, whether one wants to call the possibility a ‘lab leak’ one or not. Goodness knows what they were doing with them, but that her Wuhan institute had live bats as lab animals, something that–tellingly–was successfully concealed until last week, is less than reassuring.

    There is also the issue of forced serial passage, maybe in the humanized mice that Baric used in his egregious 2015 ‘research’, which as Wain Hobson pointed out was actually creating a new and dangerous pathogen. The Yunnan mineshaft bat bugs did not actually cause disease–that was found to be a mold, but the Chinese proudly told US Embassy staff in 2017 that Wuhan had some novel coronaviruses with exceptional pandemic potential. Had Shi’s people, having failed to find anything really sexy in almost two decades and wanting impressive results to show from their shiny new institute amped up the transmissibility of an innocuous bat coronavirus from koala bear to Tasmanian devil?

    • Troll: d dan
  394. Sean says:
    @chrimony

    A few good if not excellent points there, but be a little more tactful with Ron please. He works hard on this site and is open handed with his time and financial resources even for people he disagrees with. Like you and I, he can’t be right about everything.

  395. Ron Unz says:
    @Dnought

    The US has never done really well at the Military Games, and has been on a steady downward slope in terms of “medals won” since the first games in 1995.

    I agree completely. That claim that our military athletes had done suspiciously poorly has always seemed like a total red herring to me.

    It’s ridiculous to think that they were all covert agents rather than just a couple of them, and equally ridiculous to believe that they mostly all somehow sick with Covid. Back in the Middle Ages, armies might have sent some plague-infected people into the enemy camp to go around coughing at everyone, but I’m sure the CIA has much more advanced virus dispersion devices these days.

    The visit of the 300 military athletes was probably just used as cover to sneak in a couple of operatives, and all those other implausible theories merely weaken the overall case.

    • Replies: @Sean
    , @Triteleia Laxa
  396. gatobart says:
    @Mark Hunter

    Italy sewage study suggests COVID-19 was there in December 2019
    By Kate Kelland
    JUNE 19, 2020

    LONDON (Reuters) – Scientists in Italy have found traces of the new coronavirus in wastewater collected from Milan and Turin in December 2019 – suggesting COVID-19 was already circulating in northern Italy before China reported the first cases.

    The Italian National Institute of Health looked at 40 sewage samples collected from wastewater treatment plants in northern Italy between October 2019 and February 2020. An analysis released on Thursday said samples taken in Milan and Turin on Dec. 18 showed the presence of the SARS-Cov-2 virus.

    “This research may help us understand the beginning of virus circulation in Italy,” said Giuseppina La Rosa, an expert in environmental wastewater at the Italian National Institute of Health who co-led the research.

    A spokeswoman for the institute said the full data and study would be published next week.

    Research in the Netherlands, France, Australia and elsewhere has found signs that the virus that causes COVID-19 can be detected in sewage, and many countries are beginning to sample wastewater to track the disease.

    Scientists said the detection of traces of the virus before the end of 2019 was consistent with evidence in other countries that COVID-19 may have been circulating before China reported the first cases on Dec. 31.

    Noel McCarthy, an expert in population evidence and technologies at Britain’s Warwick Medical School, said the detection of SARS-Cov-2 genetic material in Italian wastewater in December was “reliable evidence of cases of COVID-19 being present there at that time”.

    Rowland Kao, an epidemiology and data professor at Scotland’s Edinburgh University, agreed it was plausible the disease could have circulating then, but added: “(This finding) does not on its own, however, tell us if that early detection was the source of the very large epidemic in Italy, or if that was due to a later introduction into the country.”

    A study in May by French scientists found that a man was infected with COVID-19 as early as Dec. 27, nearly a month before France confirmed its first cases.

    La Rosa said the presence of the virus in the Italian waste samples did not “automatically imply that the main transmission chains that led to the development of the epidemic in our country originated from these very first cases”.

    Samples positive for traces of the virus that causes COVID-19 were also found in sewage from Bologna, Milan and Turin in January and February 2020. Samples taken in October and November 2019 tested negative.

    The institute said it plans to launch a pilot study in July to monitor wastewater in tourist resorts.

    Additional reporting by Deena Beasley in Los Angeles and Emilio Parodi in Milan; Editing by Peter Graff, Andrew Heavens and Giles Elgood”

    Wow,..this is the kind of news “I shouldn’t believe” despite the fact of including the learned opinions of scientists of about half a dozen European countries…? And BTW, what is that “argument” that there is no credibility in the claim by Spanish scientists because no other samples were found by them after that which were contaminated too.? Couldn’t that have simply been because they weren’t specifically looking for COVID19 when they tested them, after March 2019 but long before the Wuhan outbreak by dec. of 2020…? Let’s remember that until at least that time many people were being misdiagnosis all over with the flu and all kinds of respiratory diseases, when in fact they had most likely already been infected with the virus. Also, let’s not forget that the Barcelona sample was a leftover from almost a year ago, God knows how many samples they had kept from past months, and there is also the fact that this one left over sample was tested AFTER the pandemic had been declared.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  397. @Iris

    support was reversed and entirely stopped under General De Gaulle

    Gee, that’s swell. Lesson learned, problem solved? Or how about France taking a stand to correct their major role in nuclear proliferation to a rogue state: Demand Israel give up the nuclear weapons that France enabled. By demonstrating such courage where no other nation has yet dared, France will become the hero to billions.

    The Fukushima accident was caused by a long-identified human error, by hubris and corruption.

    Hubris is right! You have been listening to too many technocrats. At Fukushima the twenty foot wall was breached by a fifty foot wave. Build a fifty foot wall? It still might be crashed by an eighty foot wave. And there go those crucial pumps located, darn it, at sea level. If they were not already split asunder. Ha.

    In any case, if nuclear power is so safe, how about repealing the Price Anderson Act? Demonstrate confidence, do not just bluff it. Reminds me of Big Pharma and their “safe” vaccines insulated from all liability… greedy, lying, hypocrites.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price%E2%80%93Anderson_Nuclear_Industries_Indemnity_Act

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1388629/Japan-tsunami-destroyed-wall-designed-protect-Fukushima-nuclear-plant.html

    • Replies: @Iris
  398. eah says:

    The Covid BioWeapon: Made in the USA, Aimed at China

    If so, something went rather wrong.

    • Replies: @anonym25
  399. Matt B says:
    @Dnought

    Hi Dnought,

    I went through the wikipedia entries for successive Military Games results and you’re right,
    I’d not done the ground work before and taken the comments I’d seen at face value,

    I’m more than happy to see various talking point scrutinised for veracity.

    • Thanks: Dnought
  400. @VICB3

    “ Look for the former to be suicided while the latter will suffer an unfortunate accident, perhaps a crash of his private jet.”

    Amen.

  401. @Lem

    “ What people who look into the likely long-term consequences of Covid policies call the Great Reset is a transfer of power from governments to the largest private sector players. That’s not bad for China, therefore it isn’t unlikely.”

    Could you please explain why that’s not bad for China. Are you suggesting that China is better off under the great reset? The Chinese approach to implementing the OBOR initiative suggests that China is keen on cooperating with government bodies rather than with private sector players. I could be wrong and if so please enlighten me.

  402. @Bombercommand

    Says who, troll? Mike Pompeo, your best boy?

    • Replies: @Bombercommand
  403. Sean says:
    @Ron Unz

    The visit of the 300 military athletes was probably just used as cover to sneak in a couple of operatives, and all those other implausible theories merely weaken the overall case.

    Assuming they existed, they were killed as soon as they returned and were debriefed; the operatives would have been misled about the exact nature of what they were doing in case of capture of course, but after the pandemic in Wuhan hit the news they’d have worked it out and known far too much to be left alive. They were truly idiots to obey such orders without realizing it was signing their own death warrant. Given how wrong it all went, I expect the demise of everyone involved was deemed expedient, apart from the very top boss and his closest associates. China knows who those are I suppose.

  404. @onebornfree

    “ This “just” in: “War is the health of the state” Randolph Bourne”

    Yet many leaders were assassinated because they tried to change this sad reality such as Abraham Lincoln and John Kennedy; both of them sought cooperation rather than unhinged competition among nations which made them sworn enemies of the City of London. Though China has a long history as a powerful state, she has barely chased the enemy beyond the top of the mountain, unlike the far more aggressive policies of the Western governments. It looks like matters of war and peace are more influenced by culture rather than by the size of the government.

    One way to restrain governments from war engagements is to bury the fiat money system; according the late honourable and highly knowledgeable Eustace Mullins, the war profiteers were planning the pan European war since 1885 but got to implement it in 1914 one year after the Federal Reserve was created in 1913. After the delinking of the Dollar and gold in 1971 by the Nixon administration, we got Keynesianism on steroid without which the US had to either dump Johnson’s Great Society or the Vietnam war or both.

  405. @Iris

    I agree completely. The great difference lies in the fact that China represents the ideal of a humane, harmonious, society, that honours its past, and protects unborn generations, whereas the West is built on greedy, dominating, individualism, and other people, including future generations, are at best competition, at worst the enemy, or exploitable commodities. China represents individualism for ALL individuals, limited by the effect that personal freedom has on the lives of others. In the West the individual is an atomised, island, alone unto itself, save when seeking others to be exploited or brushed aside. Dominance versus harmony. Of course, domineering types exist in China, but they are not in charge of society, just as harmonious individuals are utterly powerless, even despised, in the West.

  406. @Mark Hunter

    The Barcelona university that found SARS CoV2 in waste-water in March 2019 has had its research peer-reviewed and published, so we will see. The Western totalitarian corporate state will do its best to suppress or denigrate it, that is for certain, just as they have, wickedly, suppressed HCQ, ivermectin, fluvoxamine etc, to push the gene therapy injections instead. BigPharma and the medical Mafias make Big Tobacco look like saints.

    • Replies: @Mark Hunter
  407. @Ron Unz

    “Cover?”

    Can we stop pretending that this makes any sense at all?

    A member of the military has a huge “search all of my bags, investigate everything about me and follow me around everywhere” sign on them.

    It is the opposite of “cover”. It is the number one thing the US could do to raise suspicion of the operatives they were supposedly trying to sneak in.

    No one is ever going to try to sneak special forces operatives into a country as soldiers. That is ridiculous.

    There are huge numbers of US companies with operations in China. There are even more which procure from China. If the US wanted to sneak an operative in, they could just have sent a representative from any rinky dink online retailing platform. They would gather no suspicion whatsoever.

    Would you rob a house with a black and white striped top, eye mask and big bag that says “swag” on it?

    • Agree: Brás Cubas
    • Replies: @Hughes
  408. anonym25 says:
    @eah

    It’s a blowback. That was Ron Unz’s thesis back in 2020.

    • Replies: @eah
  409. Is Covid-19 the most contagious virus in circulation, which also causes significant symptoms?

    Nobody seems to have had colds during lockdown, nor caught the flu. Lockdown, or perhaps people’s sensible behavioural adjustments, have prevented most respiratory illness transmission, except Covid.

    This is remarkable and points to Covid being the product of “gain of function” research. It also makes it the least likely weapon for biological warfare.

  410. @Sean

    Still nobody has given you a coherent response to that obvious point in over a year now. Could it be that there isn’t one?

  411. Hughes says:
    @Triteleia Laxa

    Civilian contractor simply isn’t reliable and trusted enough of an agent for something that secret and big especially after if as we presumed something went terribly wrong and their damage way bigger than they intended.

    In example. Edward Snowden.

    Like i said before normally they’d want to shed light to US military contingents that visited Wuhan just prior before an outbreak happen if anything to quarantine those personnels to prevent infections from Wuhan crossing into US territory or worse their military.
    But insofar they’ve been mum and pretend that it didn’t happen. That sure would give weight to Chinese own suspicions and counter narrative.

    • Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
  412. @Hughes

    Civilian contractor simply isn’t reliable and trusted enough of an agent for something that secret and big especially after if as we presumed something went terribly wrong and their damage way bigger than they intended.

    Sorry, I did not mean to imply that it would be a civilian contractor. Just in civilian cover.

    Surely nobody really believes that the US inserted military personnel under military “cover”? That is absurd.

    • Agree: Brás Cubas
  413. Ron Unz says:
    @Sean

    Assuming they existed, they were killed as soon as they returned and were debriefed; the operatives would have been misled about the exact nature of what they were doing in case of capture of course, but after the pandemic in Wuhan hit the news they’d have worked it out and known far too much to be left alive.

    That’s ridiculous. I’m no expert on biowarfare, but America has spent decades building up the world’s largest biowarfare infrastructure.

    Since we’ve spent so many billions producing bioweapons, I’d assume we’ve also invested at least a little in how to release and disperse them, including various devices and trained personal to use them. If operatives had spent years being trained to release bioweapons, I think they’d get a little ticked off if their friends and colleagues were always killed by the US government after returning from any such mission.

    There’s actually pretty strong evidence that America had occasionally used bioweapons during the Cold War and against various other countries we didn’t like, so a pattern of killing our agents after their successful missions would lead to all sorts of problems.

    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
    , @Johnny Rico
  414. The problem about Ron Unz’s hypothesis’ “smoking gun” — the NCMI report of November 2019 — is that no one in its distribution list did anything about it. And Unz argues that they just didn’t take it seriously because they must get those reports with astounding frequency and know they are not reliable. But he thinks we should take that report seriously. But why should we have a different reaction from everyone else? Well, he might argue, because in this case the pandemic did occur, as we well know. That’s a fallacy. A stopped clock will be right twice a day, but that says nothing about its working condition.

    Furthermore, we are fed daily — through Unz himself, Glenn Greenwald, and others — stories of fake news produced by crook journalists. Why should we now make an exception to this story? So, that report may have never existed in the first place.

    • Agree: Triteleia Laxa
  415. @Ron Unz

    Your reply makes no mention of this being a rogue operation. In fact, your whole hypothesis relies on there being no way of distinguishing a rogue operation from a regularly authorized one. No safety valve in the system. I’m not sure I can accept that.

    • Agree: Sean
    • Replies: @Iris
  416. @gay troll

    You reply is a classic case of Tortured Argumentation. The epidemic started in Wuhan, Dr Shi’s lab is in Wuhan, and Dr Shi was conducting her experiments with dangerous viruses under BSL-2 protocols, THE BIOSAFETY LEVEL OF A DENTIST’S OFFICE. It is beyond me why you cannot understand this.

    • Troll: d dan
    • Replies: @gay troll
  417. @Ron Unz

    I really can’t say your speculations about Deigin are absurd. But they don’t need the bioattack hypothesis. Since you agree it was an after-the-fact arrangement, it could just as well be some anti-China people grabbing on a unique opportunity to score some points.

    You probably know that, but I think it’s important to stress it.

  418. eah says:
    @anonym25

    So more or less a big ‘Oops!’ then (or maybe not, you never know with those guys) — yes, what’s a biowarfare attack without a little ‘blowback’, e.g. a 27x mortality rate on ‘your’ side (actually come to think of it, does the ‘Deep State’ have a side? — other than its own I mean — and it seems the Jews/Israel — it’s very difficult, impossible really, to see its activities as being in the interest of the US, not to mention the average American).

    It’s a dumb ‘thesis’.

    But re ‘comorbidity’, I suggest searching up a graphic showing national obesity rates worldwide, and comparing it to the countries with (allegedly) the highest COVID mortality rates.

  419. @Sean

    Special Forces operatives are not going to be murdered by their own side after an operation. I wonder how you formed your impression that they might?

    Do you realise that they exist in a community where everyone knows everyone else, and they are groomsmen at each others’ weddings and so on?

    They don’t live isolated lives. They have families. Group events. Play football together. Go adventurous training together. Gossip, a lot. Their wives all know each other. Commanders and subordinates are close friends. They aren’t going to be murdering each other; that is stupid.

  420. @chrimony

    That doesn’t make any sense. Why would you publish open research into bioweapons, and not only that, fund said research with your adversaries? Do you think anything through, or have you turned that hammer you’ve been wielding in search of nails on your brain?

    I take them at their word, that they think they’re trying to do good by getting ahead of the next SARS or MERS. But in this case they ended up creating it without any advance benefit — as was warned about.

    I have agreed with some of your comments, but I will have to disagree here. You are the one who are not thinking things through. It’s called dual-use technology. Or do you think they have separate research labs for medical and military researches, respectively? Furthermore, judging from the complete irrelevancy of that dangerous “preventive” research to the response to this pandemic, we have to infer that military use is the sole purpose of those experiments, and medical use is just a cover. Scientists doing it are just not-so-innocent tools.

    The issues you raise (publication, foreign funding) are interesting and complex and in fact they are at the forefront of debate now. We all want to know why and how those things are done. It’s astonishing that Peter Daszak continues to be funded; I for one wouldn’t trust him with 5 bucks to buy a cup of coffee in the corner shop.

    • Replies: @chrimony
  421. gay troll says:
    @Bombercommand

    Correlation is not causation my friend.

    • Replies: @Bombercommand
  422. @Ron Unz

    Absent strong public health measures, Covid infections tend to double every 3-5 days so if Wuhan hospitals had been overflowing in Sept/Oct, tens of millions of Chinese would have been infected by the end of the year, rather than the few dozen or so detected cases.

    The 2019 Wuhan Military games were from Oct 18-27. The Wuhan lockdown occurred on Jan. 23. Hubei shortly thereafter. According to your thesis, that’s an ~ 85-100 day period of spread. Conservatively, 85/3= 28.3. 2^28.3 > 330 million. Not likely. 85/5=17. 2^17=131,072. Assuming 20 (?) initial infections ===> ~ 2,600,000 infections by Jan. 23. Even with a strict lockdown in Wuhan another doubling could be expected. So ~ 5,200,000 infections and only 4,000 deaths. Again, not likely as the IFR is too low. Furthermore, with a 3-5 day doubling period, could China have really stamped out the disease on a national basis given a 2.5 month period of spread? For those reasons and a few others, I’ve been using a 7 day doubling period.

    Just thoughts. The numbers change massively based on the assumptions. Who can say for sure?

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  423. French translation of this Post :

    Les États-Unis ont fabriqué la bio-arme Covid et l’ont d’abord disséminée en Chine et en Iran. Ils ont contaminé le Monde

    « …..nous nous retrouvons avec la forte probabilité que Covid provienne d’un laboratoire (et) a été conçu comme une arme biologique… La Chine était la cible visée (et) l’Amérique semble la source probable de l’attaque… Les suspects les plus probables pourraient être des éléments voyous de notre établissement de sécurité nationale… Le virus et ses dispositifs de dispersion pourraient avoir été obtenus de Ft. Detrick et des agents de la CIA… auraient été envoyés à Wuhan pour le libérer. » Ron Unz, rédacteur en chef de The Unz Review ; [1]

    Plus d’infos » https://numidia-liberum.blogspot.com/2021/06/les-etats-unis-ont-fabrique-la-bio-arme.html

  424. @gay troll

    Wrong again. It is called Probable Cause.

  425. anonym25 says:
    @Sean

    I know it sounds crazy but I agree with your conclusion. As Yoichi Shimatsu has said, this virus was also meant to wipe out the special elite forces participating in this event. This means those who released this bioweapon didn’t participate.

    The US did participate and Canada as well in those games. But we know that both countries had biolabs that developped this virus. We could assume as well the US (the deep state not Trump) and Canada were in cahoots with those who weren’t there.

    https://rense.com/general96/how-cov-biowar-by-japan-uk-israel-hit-the-world-military-games-part-12.php

    Here is a youtube video link and a link to New Rebel web site where the Canadian military delegation was pretty much on its own with this virus back in november 2019.

    http://www.rebelnews.com/covid_coverup_trudeau_govt_helped_china_hide_origins_of_covid_19

    However, they make the mistake of believing that Trudeau was covering up this whole affair for China.

  426. @Supply and Demand

    You don’t appreciate the fun that can be had chanting “Death to the King and Queen” and “Down with the British” with a bunch of Indians and Africans on Independence Day.

    • Thanks: gay troll
    • Replies: @Supply and Demand
  427. @Ron Unz

    “I’m no expert on biowarfare”

    “I’d assume”

    “I think…”

  428. @Ron Unz

    that works if you do not consider the findings of the sewage in spain, italy or the deaths of residents of the nursing homes in NW america.

  429. @Triteleia Laxa

    I don’t think you understand…correction. You don’t understand. Lol

  430. There is still work going on investigating similar viruses to SARS-CoV-2:

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-21240-1

    Among the many questions unanswered for the COVID-19 pandemic are the origin of SARS-CoV-2 and the potential role of intermediate animal host(s) in the early animal-to-human transmission. The discovery of RaTG13 bat coronavirus in China suggested a high probability of a bat origin. Here we report molecular and serological evidence of SARS-CoV-2 related coronaviruses (SC2r-CoVs) actively circulating in bats in Southeast Asia. Whole genome sequences were obtained from five independent bats (Rhinolophus acuminatus) in a Thai cave yielding a single isolate (named RacCS203) which is most related to the RmYN02 isolate found in Rhinolophus malayanus in Yunnan, China. SARS-CoV-2 neutralizing antibodies were also detected in bats of the same colony and in a pangolin at a wildlife checkpoint in Southern Thailand. Antisera raised against the receptor binding domain (RBD) of RmYN02 was able to cross-neutralize SARS-CoV-2 despite the fact that the RBD of RacCS203 or RmYN02 failed to bind ACE2. Although the origin of the virus remains unresolved, our study extended the geographic distribution of genetically diverse SC2r-CoVs from Japan and China to Thailand over a 4800-km range. Cross-border surveillance is urgently needed to find the immediate progenitor virus of SARS-CoV-2.

    Of course, it’s possible that someone used a bat Corona Virus as their starting point in creating a bio weapon.

    • Replies: @Sean
  431. Tom Welsh says:

    Iran is by no means “on the other side of the world from China”. Its nearest frontier is about 2,000 km from Qom – the other side of the world would be about 20,000 km away.

    The distance from China to Qom is about the same as from New York to Kansas City.

    • Replies: @Hannibal Genseric
  432. More evidence that it might have actually jumped from bats to humans:

    https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.3001115

    The first SARS virus outbreak in 2002/2003, causing approximately 8,000 infections, and its reemergence in late 2003, causing 4 infections, were linked to Himalayan palm civets and raccoon dogs in marketplaces in Guangdong Province [7,8]. Later, it became clear that while these animals may have been conduits for spillover to humans, they were not true viral reservoirs [9]. Extensive surveillance work subsequently identified related viruses circulating in horseshoe bats in China, some of which can replicate in human cells [10,11]. The bat viruses most closely related to SARS-CoV (hereafter referred to as SARS-CoV-1 for clarity), can bind to human angiotensin-converting enzyme (hACE2, the receptor SARS-CoV-2 also uses for cell entry), while the addition of a host protease is required to cleave the Spike protein before it can bind hACE2 for the more divergent bat viruses tested (S1 Fig) [12]. Two of the key changes which appear to have been required to generate this highly capable pathogen, the specific receptor binding domain sequence and the inserted furin cleavage site, can all be traced to bat coronaviruses [6,13–15]. Collectively, these results demonstrate that, unlike most other RNA viruses which acquire adaptations after switching to a new host species [16,17] for efficient replication and spreading as successfully as exhibited by SARS-CoV-2, the Sarbecoviruses—which already transmit frequently among bat species [18]—can exploit the generalist properties of their ACE2 binding ability, facilitating successful infection of non-bat species, including humans. A main difference between SARS-CoV-1 and SARS-CoV-2 is the increased binding affinity for hACE2 in the latter [19] permitting more efficient use of human cells and the upper respiratory tract, and on average lower severity but, paradoxically—due to the higher number of infections—higher disease burden.

  433. gay troll says:
    @Bombercommand

    Probable cause is a documented containment breach at Fort Detrick’s BSL 3/4 laboratories. You know, something we have evidence for. Not your facile leaps of imagination.

    I ask you again: do you think the Chinese have access to viruses that the U.S. does not? That’s the only reason to favor a hypothetical breach on Chinese soil over a documented breach on U.S. soil.

    Your theory also makes it purely coincidental that SARS CoV 2 appeared in Wuhan just in time for Lunar New Year travel. The timing of SARS CoV 2’s appearance suggests it was spread deliberately. As does the Event 201 exercise, which modeled a global pandemic of a highly infectious SARS variant on the same day that the Military Games began in Wuhan.

  434. Sean says:
    @Peripatetic Commenter

    Like all known naturally occurring B coronaviruses in the wild, RmYN02 could not unlock human cells. The famous mineshaft’s RaTG13 couldn’t either, and never caused disease in humans so was forgotten about until that capability was acquired by their cousin the Covid-19 pathogen . Baric says it certainly was not acquired through a pangolin.

  435. chrimony says:
    @Brás Cubas

    t’s called dual-use technology. Or do you think they have separate research labs for medical and military researches, respectively?

    Of course they do/did:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army_Biological_Warfare_Laboratories
    https://www.businessinsider.com/us-government-tests-deadly-chemical-warfare-agents-utah-2019-10

    Furthermore, judging from the complete irrelevancy of that dangerous “preventive” research to the response to this pandemic, we have to infer that military use is the sole purpose of those experiments, and medical use is just a cover.

    That scientific research fails to meet its goals is par for the course. It’s the success stories that make the news.

    The issues you raise (publication, foreign funding) are interesting and complex and in fact they are at the forefront of debate now.

    It’s only “complex” if you insist on believing the ridiculous idea that bioweapon research would be published and shared/funded with adversaries.

    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
  436. @Boomthorkell

    If the African Africans don’t celebrate Juneteenth, they’re racist.

    • Replies: @Boomthorkell
  437. @Tom Welsh

    There are 5800 km between Wuhan and Qom.

  438. gay troll says:

    You have to hand it to these “biodefense” assholes. Claiming to protect us from future emergent viruses by creating those viruses here and now. Maybe they can also learn how to defend against nuclear holocaust by creating new nuclear holocaust technology? What could possibly go wrong?

    The future of humanity revolves around these simple truths: if it can be done, it will be done. And if it can’t be done, it is liable to be faked.

  439. @chrimony

    Thank you for the links. Perhaps things aren’t as murky as I supposed, but I doubt it.

    That scientific research fails to meet its goals is par for the course. It’s the success stories that make the news.

    Well, you had sounded as though you were against gain-of-function research. But now you seem to have a nuanced position on dangerous research. Perhaps you are favorable to visiting bats in their caves and bringing all those lovely viruses to the lab? It’s not clear to me what kind of virus research you advocate.

    It’s only “complex” if you insist on believing the ridiculous idea that bioweapon research would be published and shared/funded with adversaries.

    No, it is complex. Take the Ron Fouchier affair in 2013 (commenter Iris linked to his article in her comment #319), for example. The Dutch government and Fouchier didn’t see eye-to-eye on this matter in 2013.

    Flu Researcher Ron Fouchier Loses Legal Fight Over H5N1 Studies
    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2013/09/flu-researcher-ron-fouchier-loses-legal-fight-over-h5n1-studies

    • Replies: @chrimony
  440. gay troll says:

    Just realized we have both a “Mark Hunter” and a “John Fisher” active on the threads. All that’s missing is a Matthew Trapper and a Luke Skywalker.

  441. Skeptikal says:
    @RobinG

    Uh-huh.

    No.

    Some actually are interested in grammatical speech.

    ” because fools like I know it” = classic mistake where the pronoun is treated like the subject of the verb “know” instead of the object of the preposition, in this case “like.”

    “Like” is not a conjunction.

    The actual subject of the verb is “Fools.”

    Fools like me know that!

    Pettifog away.

    • Replies: @Liza
  442. @Triteleia Laxa

    Special Forces operatives are not going to be murdered by their own side after an operation.

    This is a classic case of “they wouldn’t do that”, based on attributing one’s own value-set to “they”.

    Remember the Liberty? “They” weren’t going to murder the “operatives” after an operation, the planned murder of the “operatives” was the operation.

    And remember the alleged “assassination” of Osama bin Laden by Seal Team Six? Never mind that Pakistani news reporting has blown that lie out of the water, what happened to Seal Team Six (ie, the “operatives”) after the fact? (Hint – a helicopter was shot down in Afghanistan). Even (and perhaps most importantly) the “operatives” families aren’t satisfied with the cover story fed to them for that little incident.

    If you think anyone, especially military “operatives”, are safe from the predations of Empire, and even from two-bit wannabes way down the food chain, you’re sadly mistaken.

  443. Skeptikal says:
    @John Fisher

    Also, why does it have to be a virus that causes the “pandemic”?

    Seems like the notion of a virus is ready and waiting on the shelf—-perhaps from the HIV chapter of recent history? The word now has so much baggage that I can’t help wondering whether it, too, hasn’t been weaponized.

    Why can’t it be a bacterial infection?

    I thought that quite a lot of controversy surrounding the so-called Spanish flu concerned the issue of whether the millions of deaths really were caused by the virus, or by a secondary bacterial infection.

    In the case of covid-19, too, there is now considerable speculation that the real damage (second and third phases as described by practicing physicians) is caused by the spike proteins, not the virus itself.

    The new definition seems to prime the public to accept increasing demonization of viruses and draconian social control measures to combat the new “enemy”—a virus, fer chrissakes.

  444. Iris says:
    @Brás Cubas

    In fact, your whole hypothesis relies on there being no way of distinguishing a rogue operation from a regularly authorized one. No safety valve in the system. I’m not sure I can accept that.

    The contemporary history of the USA is actually choke-a-block full with unbelievably impactful “rogue” operations, which were certainly not “authorised” by the country’s legal authorities, but took place nonetheless.

    Three main examples come to mind: the assassination of President Kennedy, the attack on the USS Liberty, and last but not least, the cynical detonation of two high-rise building with 3000 people inside.

    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
  445. Iris says:
    @thotmonger

    The Fukushima tragedy was completely preventable.
    It only happened because greedy and incompetent bureaucrats decided they were smarter than the engineers who begged them for years to re-locate the emergency generators to prevent them being washed away by an inevitable tsunami.

    Just like the Covid19 catastrophe was most probably caused by a group of lunatic imperialists who thought that they can control the world.

    There are matters much more real than the “WIV lab leak” going on at the moment, yet nobody mentions them in our blessed democracies.

    • Agree: d dan, emersonreturn
    • Disagree: thotmonger
    • Replies: @thotmonger
  446. chrimony says:
    @Brás Cubas

    Well, you had sounded as though you were against gain-of-function research.

    I am. 100%.

    But now you seem to have a nuanced position on dangerous research.

    No, I can acknowledge the argument scientists make when they advocate for gain-of-function research. I still think it’s incredibly foolish. In a perfect world where leaks will never happen, it makes sense. But there’s a long history of humans being incredibly bad at designing and following procedures to prevent such leaks.

    Perhaps you are favorable to visiting bats in their caves and bringing all those lovely viruses to the lab? It’s not clear to me what kind of virus research you advocate.

    That’s not gain-of-function research. Gain-of-function research is taking what exists in nature and making it more pathogenic to humans. Is it valuable cataloging all the viruses that exist out in nature? Does it contain more risk than benefit? I’m not sure about that one. But what I can say is that doing research on dangerous pathogens, gain-of-function or not, in the middle of a city is insanely foolish. Researchers put their own convenience ahead of the safety of humanity.

    No, it is complex. Take the Ron Fouchier affair in 2013 (commenter Iris linked to his article in her comment #319), for example. The Dutch government and Fouchier didn’t see eye-to-eye on this matter in 2013.

    What I meant by it not being complex is that you didn’t have to try and square the circle of why a national government would be doing bioweapon research in public and funding their adversaries to boot: “Let’s fund China to create a deadly bioweapon, so that we could use it against them!”

    What’s “complex” in the publish versus restrict argument is that some scientists think nothing is off the table, no matter how dangerous. That Dutch paper is exactly the kind of gain-of-function research that should be banned, not just restricted from being published. It’s insanely dangerous.

    If you want to combat novel viruses, do research that attacks the root, and come up with solutions that will work against a large family of viruses, so you don’t need to create novel and insanely dangerous viruses in the lab.

    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
  447. @Ultrafart the Brave

    Yeah. The only ones that know the truth are commenting anonymously on the UNZ Review.

    • LOL: Sean
    • Replies: @Ultrafart the Brave
  448. Incitatus says:
    @Ron Unz

    “It’s perfectly possible that for egotistical reasons I’ve entirely misinterpreted the seemingly supportive private notes I’ve received from various journalists and academics. For example, after publishing my previous article an eminent scholar sent me the following short note:”
    “This is an absolutely brilliant logic. You’ve convinced me.”
    “Perhaps he was just being polite and I merely saw what I wanted to see.”

    Obsequious ’umbelness’ worthy of Uriah Heep. Bravo Mr. Unz!

    Care to identify the “eminent scholar”?

    Full empathy. Had a message from a well-known polymath just the other day: “Equines are the best thing since sliced bread.” Modesty forbids disclosure, of course.

    The David Brooks and Adrian Wooldridge bit is impressive, but your “big Meritocracy article” was, as you say, 2012. Nine years ago. Have they weighed in on your more recent thoughts? Or, as some might paint them, your nightmares?

    “Obviously, the theory that an exceptionally reckless biowarfare attack on China (and Iran) ended up killing over 600,000 Americans is a little too “touchy” a subject for many people to freely discuss.”

    Perhaps because it’s obviously untrue?

    Just a thought.

    “And a few years later, quite a number of highly-regarded academics and journalists were willing to provide some very generous blurbs to the collection of essays that I published”

    You rely on “highly-regarded academics and journalists” for self-esteem? How ephemeral your existence!

  449. Pretty compelling argument, and what adds to the credibility of the claims is the fact that the dishonest media is claiming the opposite.

    Another coincidence was the swine flu and the chicken flu that had China struggling to keep up with food demand.

    I appreciate the article, tired of the “Chine bad” bots.

  450. @Johnny Rico

    The only ones that know the truth are commenting anonymously on the UNZ Review.

    Well there’s a non-sequitur (?) worthy of examination.

    In this case, the implied conclusion doesn’t follow the premise, because the premise itself is false.

    (Perhaps someone better versed in logical semantics could refine this construct).

    In any case, the truth (or controversial allegations, as the mood suggests) is hardly confined to the Unz Review – anyone who thinks that it is, probably should consider expanding their purview.

    I’m quite sure that the Pakistani reporters and news service didn’t first consult the Unz Review to ascertain the facts surrounding the alleged assassination of Osama bin Laden in the Abottabad compound (before his “burial at sea”, for crying out loud). Being investigative journalists, they went there in person and interviewed the locals to find out what actually happened.

    https://thesaker.is/pakistan-tv-report-contradicts-us-claim-of-bin-ladens-death/

    [MORE]

    Let’s cut to the chase here – are we really going to imply that the allegation that Israel deliberately attacked the Liberty with the intention to sink the boat and kill all crew, with the complicity of the most senior members of the American government, is a figment of the imagination of anonymous Unz Review posters?

    Did the survivors of the Liberty atrocity consult first with the Unz Review before deciding to finally come out and give their testimonials to the truth of the event?

    Rather than prompt cynical dismissal in conformance with the official narrative, the case of the Liberty in particular should be cause for alarm at the government’s complete impunity and disregard for the lives of its own servicemen.

    https://www.bitchute.com/video/gmQzxtB5aC5g/

    And this, of course, leads back to my original observation – those who believe that anyone, especially military employees, are safe from the predations of Empire, are sadly mistaken.

    • Replies: @Johnny Rico
  451. @Iris

    Three main examples come to mind: the assassination of President Kennedy, the attack on the USS Liberty, and last but not least, the cynical detonation of two high-rise building with 3000 people inside.

    But surely if we know those were rogue operations, a field agent in Wuhan in October 2019 would know today with an even greater certainty that he took part in a rogue operation. That means he is not to be trusted with that secret, unless he was in on the plot from the get-go.

    Furthermore, the Kennedy and 9/11 alternate hypotheses are only seductive because the official stories have implausible points. So, for enemies of the lab leak hypothesis to be effective, they have to find an argument from implausibility against it. I don’t know any such argument. I was for a brief while persuaded by an argument from Robert F. Garry, but by reading the replies to it, it becomes clear that it has problems and is not all that persuasive. Furthermore, it’s an argument for natural spillover, not for a bioattack. Here’s the article:

    Early appearance of two distinct genomic lineages of SARS-CoV-2 in different Wuhan wildlife markets suggests SARS-CoV-2 has a natural origin
    https://virological.org/t/early-appearance-of-two-distinct-genomic-lineages-of-sars-cov-2-in-different-wuhan-wildlife-markets-suggests-sars-cov-2-has-a-natural-origin/691

    What Ron Unz keeps repeating is that there is no evidence for a lab leak, which is a completely different argument from saying it is implausible or that it couldn’t cause a pandemic. And that argument is easily countered with the strong possibility that China has hidden that evidence.

    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
    , @Sean
    , @Iris
  452. @chrimony

    OK, I think I understand your position better now, and agree with most of it (bat caves should still be off limits though).

  453. Ron Unz says:
    @Herd Stupidity

    Furthermore, with a 3-5 day doubling period, could China have really stamped out the disease on a national basis given a 2.5 month period of spread? For those reasons and a few others, I’ve been using a 7 day doubling period.

    Sure. The 3-5 day doubling period is just approximate, based upon later estimates before local lockdowns. Another crucial factor is that it only really applies once Covid becomes substantially present in a given community, e.g. once a local hospital is overflowing with patients. Apparently, many individuals don’t infect anyone else, while a small fraction are super-spreaders and account for most infections. So at the very early stages, the rate of growth may be fairly low until enough are infected that statistics take over and the increase becomes exponential. This had been discussed in considerable detail in earlier threads.

    As I’ve said, taking all these factors into account, most experts believe that Patient Zero in Wuhan was infected in late Oct/early Nov based upon the later course of the outbreak. But a widespread local outbreak as early as Sept/Oct would seem almost impossible. That’s why that Harvard report is almost certainly bogus.

    • Replies: @Herd Stupidity
  454. denk says:

    The murderers of Milosevic is back with vengeance.

    [MORE]

    Their ambition this time,
    nothing less than …
    Han genocide.

    Already you see Chinese singled out for attack all across five liars landscape.

    Lies most foul…
    Chinese virus
    UIghurs genocide
    TAM ‘massacre’ commemoration
    [sobs have been regurgitating the same lie every 4/6]

    Exhibit A

    One witness, Qelbinur Sidik, alleged that in the female concentration camp where she was teaching detainees her professional subject, Mandarin Chinese, which must have been useless to the detainees, she estimated the presence of 8,000 to 10,000 women prisoners. All the women were according to her raped by the guards on a nightly basis and consequently were unable to sit up straight in her class

    It does get my blood boils.
    I’d like to get my hands on the rapists those serial lying sobs.

    The same ones who’r now doing their damnedest to nail the chicom on SARS2

    https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2021/06/16/geoffrey-nices-road-show-vindicates-our-prognosis/

    http://www.walterlippmann.com/docs494.html

  455. @Brás Cubas

    An argument from implausibility is staring us in the face. Those peddling the WIV lab leak hypothesis are the US Right (ie both political parties), the Zionazis, the Pompeo ‘liars, thieves and cheaters’, the Western fakestream media presstitute vermin, and various, nefarious, running-chihuahuas of the Real Evil Empire. That is the usual scum, liars, hypocrites and thugs to a man and feminazi. They are baying for ‘consequences’ for China and ‘reparations’ of trillions, and they are Evil, undead, psychopaths. Ergo the WIV lab leak theory, absent concrete evidence, must be regarded as a genocidal lie.

    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
  456. @Bombercommand

    Actually, in your case, it’s called race hatred.

  457. @Bombercommand

    BC, you’re one of the numerous, fascist, Sinophobe racists infesting public life in the West, who twist everything in your perverted psyche in order to blame the Chinese you hate because they are so much better than you and have created a society so superior to the decaying sewer of the USA that it is quite funny. All you Yankee Doodle racists have left are the ways and means of and lust for genocidal aggression, in which you are truly ‘Exceptional’.

  458. Sean says:
    @Brás Cubas

    While in agreement with what you say about plausibility, I think the assumptions about conspiracy that one begins examining the concrete facts with is as important than whether there are troubling details inconsistent with a non-conspiratorial explanation. The essence of science is to produce an explanation that is simplifying reality, rather than overfitting to the the data.

    http://backreaction.blogspot.com/2020/06/how-to-tell-science-from-pseudoscience.html Usually that is because the model captures certain patterns in the data, and any kind of pattern is a simplification. If we have such a model, we say it “explains” the data. Or at least part of it. One of the best historical examples for this is astronomy. Astronomy has been all about finding patterns in the motions of celestial objects. And once you know the patterns, they will, quite literally, connect the dots. Visually speaking, a scientific model gives you a curve that connects data points.

    Hence a proper hypothesis will always have to ignore points that are out of line. In 2002, the Royal Astronomer Martin Rees offered a bet that a million people would die in a bio error or bio terror event by 2020. Steven Pinker took him up on it, and I think Rees is going to lose because no one wants to admit what happened. The science is what actual flesh and blood scientists say it is

    I agree about Garry, although an article published in China by Bejiing and Wuhan doctors said the first three covid-19 patients were in very early December and not connected to the wet market, these may, or may not be be the three sick workers from Shi’ Wuhan Virology Institute . Garry appears to be totally convinced the Covid-19 pathogen had never been in a lab because it was not manufactured, yet given it hadn’t been engineered, that it had never been in Shi’s Wuhan virology institute does not follow at all. Shi was going into the wild and bringing back bat coronaviruses for study at the Wuhan institute, where she also had live bats. It is vitally necessary to understand that since 2004, Shi and her team had been scouring China looking for a coronavirus naturally presenting a possible pandemic danger to humans, so an escape of one of these from her lab in a infected worker (who might have caught it off of of a wild bat on of the sampling expeditioner or a lab bat) is perfectly respectable.

    The Chinese and American governments, their agencies and scientists in general were fine with what Shi was doing, and she made no secret of it. A proper investigation giving weight to whether such propinquity (8miles) of an institute acquiring and studying wild bat coronaviruses for pandemic potential to what we are led to believe is the known ground zero of an actual pandemic of just such a virus is opening a can of worms for all governments and scientists. American officials have been directed to not investigate a lab leak. It would make Trump look far wiser than Fauci, and that would never do.

    After Labor columnist Victor Riesel was blinded in an acid attack order by racketeer Johnny Dio he had the acid thrower killed and then had those who’d killed him killed themselves. Their kind are ten a penny; why leave witnesses who might flip and give you up. Alive they would be a time bomb. Going on the assumption of a very sophisticated and deliberate salting of the Wuhan population with a weaponized virus. The planners of the operation would have have a precise schedule for the course of the outbreak and they would not just have taken the chance of it dying out though lack of circulation of the infected, so there would be number of patient zeros infected at public places to kick start the pandemic.

    The reason for choosing Wuhan as the ground zero was 100% to frame the Wuhan Virology Institute, and that could be done at any time, unless the conspiracy only had access to a tiny group of operators who were going to Wuhan anyway. I know this was a rogue operation but it got ahold of a bioweapon which might be less well guarded than a nuclear weapon, but this one was made to order so it could be used to frame the Chinese and these the US scientist would know it could only have one purpose, so they’d have to believe that were working on an authorized chain of command project, and be liquidated before the pandemic. I think that the games were not connected to the biowarfare attack at all. The ultimate objective of framing China for the pandemic, which Wade has helped them attain , is to show that China does not have a better model, and cooperation with or transfer to them over sensitive technology is a mistake. China has been discredited by this episode, and the outsourcing to them is going to begin reversing.

    For the coming battle we need to transition from COVID-19 detectives to CCP-Hunters. Cleaning out the vermin infestation of CCP agents in the U.S. will go part and parcel with bringing down the CCP in Beijing. Search their Tweets, link with other sites, associates and relations. pic.twitter.com/yUHJudR3S3— Dr. Lawrence Sellin (@LawrenceSellin) June 18, 2021

    • Troll: d dan
    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
  459. Mark Hunter says: • Website

    To link to this MW / RU article on Facebook, indirectly using a Bing search that ranks it #1, you can use

    bing.com/search?q=%22The+Covid+BioWeapon%3A+Made+in+the+USA%2C+Aimed+at+China%22+%22unz+review%22+%22jun+15%2C+2021%22

  460. Avianthro says:

    First of all, the Wade article does not prove the virus was made in a lab. It only shows that it may more likely have been made in a lab than to have evolved by natural mechanisms. It also therefore shows that the natural origin theory is not certain, and yet it does not show it to be impossible or utterly unproven. Please give the Wade article a careful re-read or two.

    Second, isn’t it hard to believe that the US rogues who would have planned this op did not consider or perhaps did not care that the virus would spread back, would backfire on the US economy as well? Did they think through other aspects of this plot so well and yet not foresee that?

    Third, it is glaringly evident now that the state of our science in genetic engineering-evolutionary biology is still quite lacking…that there are phenomena not yet fully observed or understood. Nature still has tricks up her sleeve that we don’t understand, and we don’t fully understand the results that our own trickery can have.

    Now, admittedly, it does look interesting that the media seem to be taking up the theory of accidental release and Chinese negligence. That’s a nice way for things to spin if one wishes to deflect attention from the possibility that Unz advocates, isn’t it? Well, maybe the plotters are getting lucky for now on that, but, as Unz explains, their luck will run out one of these days as that scenario gets thought-through.

    Personally, I still maintain that the natural origin theory has not been fully investigated and that it’s still too soon to claim certainty on either possibility. I also suggest that if this were a bioweapon, it may very well have been from neither the USA nor China, but from a non-governmental player or a government other than those two. Let’s consider who would benefit from this event and not be concerned about its damage to either the USA or China, who comes out ahead no matter what harm is caused to either. Wouldn’t that be something like a cabal perhaps of global elites who have financial operations larger than governments, and the ability to manipulate and control government policies? As one can imagine rogue ops under a governmental umbrella, so too can one imagine them under a non-governmental one.

  461. John_Z says:

    Wrong. The title ought to be like this:
    The Covid-19 Bioweapon: Made by American & Chinese Jewry (yes, Chinese Jewry exists too) , Aimed at Europe & West and at the rest of the world as a Final Solution of Goyim Question in the project of taking over the planet by bloodthirsty, psychopathic Jews. The next world hegemon after fall of the USA will be China, under full political and economic control of Jews, which exists there since the Opium Wars, communist revolution and neoliberal revolution lately.

  462. grr says:
    @Big Daddy

    Not just in Nth America, almost every continent has Lyme now.

  463. cranc says:
    @Iris

    The future of transportation energy seems to be hydrogen fuel cells that will replace oil.

    Hydrogen fuel cells are an energy storage technology, they are not a replacement for oil which is an energy source. This error in understanding lies behind much false optimism coming from enthusiasts for the Chinese system.
    Chinese style control societies are in the ascendant precisely because there is no equivalent replacement for oil. Not nuclear, nor solar, nor gas nor anything that we have. This means there will be an inevitable contraction with all that that entails. Financial and political elites look to emulate and converge with the kind of technocratic-oneparty-state-social-control system most advanced in China because the kind of liberalism of the oil age has come to an end. The cybernetic system will be expanded rapidly with the intention of controlling the long descent into a post oil world – depopulation, technological extremism, rationing, neofeudalism.
    The God of Progress is dead.
    This next:
    http://dissident-mag.com/2021/06/07/jbs-meat-hack-cyber-pandemic-fud-and-the-great-reset/

    • Replies: @Iris
  464. @Mulga Mumblebrain

    That is not correct. If those persons stated (as they probably believe) that things do not fall upwards, would you consider gravity implausible too?

  465. RRTV says:

    The idea that China had nothing to do with the leak is retarded. Why Unz goes out of his way to defend China is suspect. American elites if not global elites are in love with communist China and have ignored China’s anti-liberal attitude and actions more and more. The main reason is economic, the neo-liberal elites want China to be part of the economic world and have no problem ignoring their own hippy ideals in order to create their globalist system. Trudeau, Obama’s lackeys, etc all seem to be in love with Mao for some reason. The neo liberal homosexual agenda is not intended to interfere with business negotiations, it’s intended as a means to control western nations. Power is the name of the game. Why do you think China had few cases of the virus. It’s because that was the deal. China was supposed to be the credible release point just as it was with SARS. In exchange for being the release point China would be little effected by the virus since the goal was for the virus to arrive in the west. The pandemic in the west would make it possible for the societal change these globalist organizations wanted. Virus exercises from 2019 like crimson contagion and Event 201 are evidence of what the elites wanted for 2020. These same elites wanted air traffic not to be changed by the pandemic in other words they wanted countries to stay open to spread the virus. The view that some people have on here in supporting China is probably because they have a taste for Asian women or Asian culture. Two things that are made up by our multicultural promoting media. These simps ignore the connections between China and the west and think the west just wants to conquer China which is a impossible task by the way. Lets not forget Bill Gates and most other moguls who recommended doing the same actions as China last year. For being China hating elites they seem to agree with Unz a lot. I’m not saying China is the only culprit, what I’m saying is that our government along with China are the culprits as well as most western governments. It’s man vs totalitarianism and people are just supposed to be serfs. As for war with China. It will be a sham war. US generals will lead their forces to defeat or deadlock because our elites don’t want victory over China they want to distribute military power in some sort of globalist super commitee ala great reset. America is supposed to be kicked down a notch.

    • Replies: @anonym25
    , @Sean
  466. Tucker says:

    Regarding the theory that the diabolically evil, mentally insane psychopaths who comprise the majority of the so-called ‘ruling elite’ class of modern day America would stoop to creating and then deliberately unleashing a minimally fatal virus – either aiming it at China or at their own population, let me share an excerpt from the infamous and now too soon forgotten Project For a New American Century whitepaper, written originally back during the Clinton Administration by the mostly, but not entirely, jewish Israel First neocons:

    https://www.wanttoknow.info/020907pnacprojectnewamericancentury

    PNAC
    Project for the New American Century

    “l hints that, despite threatening war against Iraq for developing weapons of mass destruction, the US may consider developing biological weapons — which the nation has banned — in decades to come. It says: ‘New methods of attack — electronic, ‘non-lethal’, biological — will be more widely available … combat likely will take place in new dimensions, in space, cyberspace, and perhaps the world of microbes … advanced forms of biological warfare that can ‘target’ specific genotypes may transform biological warfare from the realm of terror to a politically useful tool’; ”

    So, there you go. Spelled out in black and white. And, this website has this curious statement added to the link shared above:

    “This is one of many documents on the 9/11 summary to have disappeared since the WantToKnow.info site was established. The link to this article on the Sunday Herald website became inactive sometime in late 2006. Because this information appears to have disappeared, we provide the text of the article below. To see the original webpage from our archive, click here.”

    Unfortunately for these neo-con war mongering psychopaths, it’s nearly impossible to completely ‘disappear’ information on the Web that might be incriminating – due to the fact that, once a document is published online – millions of news hounds have a habit of saving and downloading copies of documents like the PNAC whitepaper and then they can upload them to hundreds of new websites.

    • Thanks: Iris
  467. anonym25 says:
    @RRTV

    They are not in love with China. They are just in love with the way the CCP controls China, because they want to import the same draconian social mesures. China is just a blueprint the elites have in store for us. China isn’t willfully foisting their social mesures onto others nor they don’t preach their system works for others.

    This biowarfare had the intention of destroying China. The fact that the virus appears out of nowhere before the Chinese New Year in a city where tens of millions of Chinese transit is a clear indication that this is an operation meant to cripple totally China. They used the Wuhan Military Games as the event to launch their biowarfare operation and use the Wuhan lab as the scapegoat. The fact that the Wuhan lab leak was first concocted by a Mossad agent, Dany Shoham, and later supported by a MI6 agent, sir Richard Dearlove who is also responsible of delivering fake proofs of Iraq’s WMD, is everything you need to know about this fake Wuhan lab leak theory.

    The problem is that China wasn’t forthcoming from the start where they could have shown their total support for an investigation and shaken off any suspicion. But as a commenter has said above, China knew they were on the receiving end of a biowarfare attack but they didn’t hit back because it would mean that they had to start a war over this. Instead, they pushed the bat and the pangolin myth.

    • Agree: Iris, acementhead
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  468. Iris says:
    @cranc

    This error in understanding lies behind much false optimism coming from enthusiasts for the Chinese system.

    The error in understanding is yours: the much bigger problem always was storing electrical energy, not producing it.

    Producing clean/low emission electrical energy is already being done by many efficient means, but storing it in large quantities is impossible, and recovering it time-consuming. The latter point impacts in particular the transportation industry, since vehicles need to refuel at regular intervals. Re-charging the batteries of electrical vehicles takes hours, which is an obvious obstacle to generalised usage.

    The use of hydrogen fuel cell resolves entirely the problem, since filling up a tank with pressurised hydrogen will be done in the same short timeframe required to fill in a petrol tank.
    Hydrogen being used as a fuel is far past the experimental stage: it is already part of the strategic development plans of China, or of large corporations such as Airbus for instance.
    https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/news/en/2021/06/green-hydrogen-ecosystem-for-aviation-explained.html

    Hydrogen will bring about a revolution in the global economy, as it will profoundly transform the energy and transportation markets. It will however require the construction of a large and dense production and distribution network. Only China has the power to deliver such network, thanks to its unmatched ability to plan, fund and deliver large-scale infrastructure projects.

    Meanwhile, while China leads the way to a cleaner future, with less pollution and greater protection of the natural environment, your ZOG will continue excelling in the type of “technology” it is good at.

    You know: injecting carcinogenics in the soil to extract drops of shale fuels, playing with engineered viruses, shooting Palestinian kids with explosive bullets, fire-bombing the Gaza concentration camp with white phosphorous, drone-bombing Afghan funerals and weddings, experimenting fusion nuclear thermonuclear bombs on Yemeni and Lebanese civilians, etc..

    In view of the extraordinary changes occurring in the leading global energy market, and considering how much China is ahead of the US in mastering, funding and building the energy transition technologies, the “Covid BioWeapon , Made in the USA, Aimed at China” thesis makes perfect sense. It is the only does make any sense, actually.

    • Replies: @cranc
  469. @Supply and Demand

    Africans, as in, in Africa, or visiting from Africa briefly for schoolwork purposes. Thus, all have meaningful, if separate, Independence Days but sharing the same Anti-British Empire wavelength.

    Good one, though.

  470. From PLOS Pathogens in 2017:

    Discovery of a rich gene pool of bat SARS-related coronaviruses provides new insights into the origin of SARS coronavirus

    … In addition, we report the first discovery of bat SARSr-CoVs highly similar to human SARS-CoV in ORF3b and in the split ORF8a and 8b. Moreover, SARSr-CoV strains from this cave were more closely related to SARS-CoV in the non-structural protein genes ORF1a and 1b compared with those detected elsewhere. Recombination analysis shows evidence of frequent recombination events within the S gene and around the ORF8 between these SARSr-CoVs. We hypothesize that the direct progenitor of SARS-CoV may have originated after sequential recombination events between the precursors of these SARSr-CoVs. Cell entry studies demonstrated that three newly identified SARSr-CoVs with different S protein sequences are all able to use human ACE2 as the receptor, further exhibiting the close relationship between strains in this cave and SARS-CoV. …

    This would seem to provide support for SARS-CoV-2 having transferred from Bats to humans in some manner but does not rule out the possibility that it was helped by some people somewhere.

  471. Liza says:
    @Skeptikal

    “...fools like me know it” sounds better somehow, even if you don’t know the first thing about grammar.

    OTOH, “…fools such as I know it” does sound OK though I don’t know how to analyze the grammar here. What do you think? I do think that “like” is mis-used quite often when “such as” sounds better.

  472. Rico says:

    There’s a hole in this theory (which btw,I also subscribe to)
    Z0G knew that the virus would eventually wreak havoc in the West too..

    What’s the point of releasing a virus on your enemy if you suffer similar losses yourself?

    • Replies: @Iris
  473. Yee says:

    anonym25,

    “They are not in love with China. They are just in love with the way the CCP controls China,…… China is just a blueprint the elites have in store for us.”

    I don’t think so… The US ruling class already has the most sophisticated system to control a soceity. They can sell you anything and people will buy all of it.

    There’s no way the US ruling class want to give up such a powerful system.

  474. Iris says:
    @Brás Cubas

    Furthermore, the Kennedy and 9/11 alternate hypotheses are only seductive because the official stories have implausible points

    I think that easy insight only comes with hindsight.

    It is quite easy for us today, to form very knowledgeable and pretty accurate opinions of what really happened during the JFK assassination and the 9/11 false flag attack, because we benefit from decades of research made by truth-seekers. We actually benefit from the existence of hard forensic and material evidence to form our opinion,.

    But it wasn’t so easy in the months following the considered events.
    First-rank actors like Robert Kennedy, or well-informed politicians like Charles de Gaulle, knew straightway that the “Oswald- lone-gunman” theory was bogus because of the political context around JFK’s assassination, but this was only obvious to them, thanks to their insider information or superior political insight . The public only realised this many years later.

    This is what the UR’s Covid19 articles are offering to its readers: an early political analysis, not a forensic one, leading to a compelling and and well-argumented conclusion that the Covid19 pandemic possibly carries more than meets the eye.

    Conversely, the Trump and Biden administrations try to influence the global public by pretending to possess much stronger evidence, i.e. forensic and factual, while so far they haven’t presented any.

    Can you see why the first approach (political opinion with sound arguments) remains superior to the second (strong affirmation with no evidence whatsoever)? One says “I believe”, the other say “I know”, but is far less argumented.

    There exists no irrevocable factual evidence for the virus’ origin, natural or engineered, since competent biologists have been arguing either hypothesis for a year. Furthermore, if such evidence existed, it would have been consensually laid out in the WHO report.

    But that does not strop you from being ahead, and making political analysis. Like Charles de Gaulle and RFK did in their time.

    • Agree: Hughes
    • Replies: @Sean