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Sweden Is Right. The Economy Should be Left Open
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Sometimes, the best thing to do, is to do nothing at all. Take Sweden, for example, where the government decided not to shut down the economy, but to take a more thoughtful and balanced approach. Sweden has kept its primary schools, restaurants, shops and gyms open for business even though fewer people are out in public or carrying on as they normally would. At the same time, the government has kept the Swedish people well-informed so they understand the risks the virus poses to their health and the health of others. This is how the Swedes have minimized their chances of getting the infection while avoiding more extreme measures like shelter-in-place which is de facto house arrest.

What the Swedish experiment demonstrates, is that there’s a way to navigate these unprecedented public health challenges without recklessly imposing police state policies and without doing irreparable harm to the economy. And, yes, the results of this experiment are not yet known, but what we do know is that most nations cannot simply print-up trillions of dollars to counter the knock-on effects of bringing the economy to a screeching halt. These countries must dip into their reserves or take out loans from the IMF in order to recover from the lack of production and activity. That means they’re going to face years of slow growth and high unemployment to dig out from the mess their leaders created for them.

And that rule applies to the US too, even though the government has been recklessly printing money to pay the bills. The unforeseen cost to the US will come in the form of long-term unemployment triggered by millions of failed small and mid-sized businesses. That grim scenario is all but certain now. And just as the USG “disappeared” millions of workers from the unemployment rolls following the 2008 Financial Crisis– forcing them to find low-paying, part-time, no-benefits work in the “gig” economy– so too, millions of more working people will fall through the cracks and wind up homeless, jobless and destitute following this crisis. One $1,200 check from Uncle Sam and a few weeks of unemployment compensation is not going to not be enough to prevent the fundamental restructuring of the US labor force that will be impossible to avoid if the economy isn’t restarted pronto.

That’s why we should look to countries like Sweden that have taken a more measured approach that allow parts of the economy to continue to function during the epidemic, so other parts can gear-up quickly and return to full capacity with minimal disruption. This should not be a “liberal vs conservative” issue as it’s become in the United States. One should not oppose restarting the economy just because Trump is ‘for it’, but because millions of working people are facing an uncertain future in an economy which– most economists believe– is headed for a severe and protracted recession. Liberals should be looking for ways to avoid that dismal outcome instead of wasting all their time criticizing Trump. (Of course, now that the idiot Trump has appointed Ivanka, Jared, Kudlow and Wilbur Ross to lead his Council to Re-Open America” it will be impossible to extricate the issue from partisan politics.) This is a clip from an article by Donald Jeffries at Lew Rockwell:

“The shutdown of businesses now has been going on for more than a month. How many of the dwindling small businesses left in our casino economy have already closed down forever? How many mid-sized ones will ever be able to reopen? How many millions will be furloughed, laid off, fired- however they word it- because of this draconian reaction? How can an economy based on commerce exist without commerce?” (“The Locked Down World”, Donald Jeffries, Lew Rockwell)

Indeed. This isn’t a question of putting profits before people. The economy IS our life. Try to make a living without an economy. Try to feed your family or pay the rent or buy a car or do anything without an economy. We need the economy. Working people need the economy, and we need to find a way to do two things at the same time: Keep the economy running and save as many lives as possible. The idea that we can just do one of these things and not the other, is not only blatantly false, it is destructive to our own best interests. We have to do both, there is no other way. Here’s more background on Sweden from an article at Haaretz:

“The truth is that we have a policy similar to that of other countries,” says Anders Tegnell, Sweden’s state epidemiologist, “Like everyone, we are trying to slow down the rate of infection … The differences derive from a different tradition and from a different culture that prevail in Sweden. We prefer voluntary measures, and there is a high level of trust here between the population and the authorities, so we are able to avoid coercive restrictions”…

It’s still too early to say whether Stockholm’s policy will turn out to be a success story or a blueprint for disaster. But, when the microbes settle, following the global crisis, Sweden may be able to constitute a kind of control group: Did other countries go too far in the restrictions they have been imposing on their populations? Was the economic catastrophe spawned globally by the crisis really unavoidable? Or will the Swedish case turn out to be an example of governmental complacency that cost human lives unnecessarily?” (“Why Sweden Isn’t Forcing Its Citizens to Stay Home Due to the Coronaviru”, Haaretz)

Tegnell, is no long-haired, fist-waving radical, he’s Sweden’s chief epidemiologist and has worked for mainstream organizations like the WHO and the European Commission. Where he differs from so many of his peers is simply in his approach, which empowers ordinary people to use their own common sense regarding their health, their safety and the safety of others. It’s simple, if you develop symptoms, stay home. Tegnell believes that its easier to get people to do the right thing by trusting their judgement then by ordering them to do so.

That said, Sweden’s objectives are the same as every other country impacted by the pandemic. The emphasis is on “flattening the curve”, slowing the rate of infection, testing as many people as possible, and protecting the vulnerable and older populations. It’s just their methods are different. They’ve taken a more nuanced approach that relies on level-headed people conforming to the guidelines that help to minimize contagion until some better remedy is found. “Social distancing” is practiced in Sweden, but the population has not had their civil liberties suspended nor have they been put under house arrest until the threat has passed. Sweden has not compromised its core values in a frenzied attempt to stave off sickness or death. Can the U.S. say the same? Here’s more from an article at the Washington Times:

“As government leaders in the UK and the United States are grappling with how to revive dormant economies, Dr. Tegnell said the Swedish approach will allow the country to maintain social distancing measures in the long term without putting the economic system at risk. Dr. Tegnell said he believes certain regions in Sweden are already very close to … a state where so many in the population have built up resistance to the virus that it is no longer a pandemic threat…

“We do believe the main difference between our policies and many other countries’ policies is that we could easily keep these kinds of policies in place for months, maybe even years, without any real damage to society or our economy,” Dr. Tegnell said. Although the government has not issued a stay-at-home order, many Swedes have decided to quarantine and practice social distancing on their own volition, Dr. Tegnell said.” (“Top Swedish official: Virus rates easing up despite loose rules”, The Washington Times)

The threat of pandemic is new to most countries, so it’s not entirely fair to criticize their response. But, at this point, reasonable people should be able agree that implementing sweeping policies that inflict incalculable damage to the economy and on people’s personal liberties is a gross overreaction that poses as big a threat as the pandemic itself. Leaders must be able to walk and chew gum at the same time. That’s all we should expect of them: Just restart the damn economy while minimizing the risks of infection as much as possible. Is that too much to ask? Here’s an excerpt from an article at MedicineNet:

“The financial ruin this pandemic has caused for many will almost certainly lead to increased suicide, mental illness, and physical health problems exacerbated by a loss of health insurance in countries without socialized medicine, according to the World Economic Forum. That’s partly why both Sweden and Singapore have tried to keep life in their countries as normal as possible for as long as possible during the response. It does not explain the drastically different death tolls between the two countries, however….

Anders Tengall, the country’s chief epidemiologist, is making a grim wager. The hypothesis is there will not be significantly more Swedes dead at the end of the pandemic than if the country had initiated stricter distancing protocols, but the looser approach will keep the number of cases from spiking when lockdowns are lifted.

Tengall’s and the rest of the Swedish government’s bet is this approach is more sustainable, and can help prevent some of those other bad health outcomes that accompany economic depression.” (“Sweden and Singapore: The COVID-19 ‘Soft’ Approach vs. Techno-Surveillance”, MedicineNet)

So, yes, the number of deaths per thousand in Sweden do not compare favorably to nearby Denmark, but the final results of the experiment might not be known for years. With a population of 5.8 million, Denmark’s death-toll is currently 336, while Sweden’s is 1,400 for a population of 10.2 million. (as of 4-17-20) So, as a practical matter, the Swedish method looks vastly inferior. (Interestingly, Sweden’s population is similar to NY City’s 8.4 million, but coronavirus deaths in NYC have now reached a horrific 12,822.)

But there’s more to this story than mere data-points or the latest grim statistics. Here’s a clip from the LA Times that helps to connect the dots:

“Tegnell… insists that Sweden’s approach still seems to make sense, though he also acknowledges that the world is in uncharted territory with the virus. He argues that while Sweden might have more infections in the short term, it will not face the risk of a huge infection spike that Denmark might face once its lockdown is lifted.

“I think both Norway and Denmark are now very concerned about how you stop this complete lockdown in a way so you don’t cause this wave to come immediately when you start loosening up,” he said. He said authorities know that the physical distancing Swedes are engaging in works, because officials have recorded a sudden end to the flu season and to a winter vomiting illness.” (“Sweden sticks to ‘low-scale’ lockdown despite rise in coronavirus deaths'”, LA Times)

The Swedish plan will continue to be criticized by public health experts who think that their draconian recommendations should be fully-implemented without the slightest deviation, but it could turn out that the Swedish model is not only vastly superior to the other courses of action but, ultimately, the only real option for countries that want to save lives but avoid a permanently-hobbled and severely-depressed economy.

 
• Category: Economics, Science • Tags: Coronavirus, Health care, Politics, Sweden 
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  1. Anon[230] • Disclaimer says:

    Mike Whitney is showing his white bias and white privilege. Why is Sweden the example to follow and not Brazil who has over 20 times the population of Sweden? Jair Bolsonaro fired his health secretary who wanted to shut down the Brazilian economy. If Trump had followed Brazil’s lead and fired Fauci and the rest of his cabal (Birx etc) and kept the economy open, our economy and health would be in much better shape today.

  2. @Anon

    The situation in Brazil is different from Sweden in one important point: the president has no say in the matter of policy; he is our very own Queen of England, and his minister will perform merely administrative tasks such as buying test kits, ventilators, masks, etc. The State governors have the power to determine their respective States’ policies. Now Bolsonaro is trying to reopen the country to international travellers. I am curious to see if they will let him.

    Furthermore, while Bolsonaro resolutely defends reopening the economy immediately, his new minister’s inauguration speech was a vague mish-mash of platitudes and evasions. The guy was supporting the old minister’s policies up until yesterday. As I said, it wouldn’t matter one way or the other. He probably know his powers are very limited. Brazil is clearly ungovernable. Don’t waste your time with it. (Of course you may be a resident, and thus obliged to waste your time with it to a certain extent. That is my own case.)

    As for Whitney’s article, I have one word: Bravo!

    • Replies: @Sincerity.net
    , @refl
    , @Chepo
    , @L.K
  3. What does Sweden say about masks? Large gatherings like church services are known as super spreaders of Coronavirus.
    Full social distancing, PLUS well fitting and and correctly sized N95 breathing masks (with additional eye glasses against spit) should be absolutely safe. If seriously and correctly obeyed (most people wear masks incorrectly, including my dentists)
    This is soo much cheaper than lockdowns.
    But, certain populations are know for not obeying laws nor instructions,. with impunity And police do not dare to punish them, with serious effects like the Rotherham mass child abuse over 14 years.
    This mass child rape originates, as our site sincerity .org describes, in the institutionalize dishonesty regarding such minority flaws, plus the racism taboo and egalitarian dogma.
    We stand surprised that Coronavirus also is in the focus of intentional deception in both directions.
    Some people think panic and exaggeration are needed, to enforce compliance with precautions and lockdowns. Trump on the other hand wants to show optimism to avoid panic.
    So bias here goes both ways, towards exaggerated short term panic and towards unwarranted long term optimism. There is no reason to believe that the situation will be any better in 2-6 months from now.

  4. “Mike Whitney is showing his white bias and white privilege.”

    WTF?

    Sweden is hardly white anymore, and whites are definitely not privileged within it. What planet do you live on?

    • Agree: gotmituns
  5. @Brás Cubas

    ALL should be studied Sweden, Brazil, Gaza, Taiwan, Spain.
    But Twitter does not allow you to posit potential race differences in disease proneness, which might prevent truth seeking.
    Hot weather seems helpful in fighting the virus inside the human breating ducts and outside. Strangely we don’t hear anything about Sauna and hot steam breathing.

    • Replies: @Digital Samizdat
  6. Comparing countries is problematical to say the least. Sweden is very cold. The virus does not do well in very cold temps or very hot temps. Let’s see what happens to Sweden once it warms up a bit. Virtually every country that resisted lock downs ultimately gave in when their health care service got overwhelmed. Today I notice their new cases are up by 10%.

  7. @Anon

    You do not know that. Our health care system could be in far worse shape. What if the health care system of every major city was as overwhelmed as NYC?

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @botazefa
    , @gotmituns
  8. @Rubaiyat

    MORON.

    The economy and work IS our lives!

    People who live paycheck to paycheck miss one check and they can’t pay their rent or feed their kids.

    The wealthy can afford the shutdown; the poor CANNOT.

    MILLIONS out of work means despair, alcohol, substance abuse, depression, violence, suicide, looting, rioting, starvation.

  9. @Sincerity.net

    Hot weather seems helpful in fighting the virus inside the human breating ducts and outside. Strangely we don’t hear anything about Sauna and hot steam breathing.

    Heat and humidity are two separate things. What if the weather where you are is hot and dry this summer? And what if the virus is not as heat-sensitive as initially assumed?

  10. With a population of 5.8 million, Denmark’s death-toll is currently 336, while Sweden’s is 1,400 for a population of 10.2 million.

    If you do the math, this means that Denmark has an overall COVID-19 death rate of 0.006% of the population, while Sweden’s would be 0.01%. Sure, there’s a difference. But the effective death rates are so incredibly tiny in both cases that it hardly makes sense to quibble over the Swedish approach from a public health perspective. If it helps Sweden stave off economic collapse and build herd immunity, then I say theirs is the best approach.

    Trump, are listening?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  11. On a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.

    Of course Sweden is right. Life must go on, or there is no point to it.

    • Replies: @Emslander
  12. The case of Sweden may be a very special case. You have to consider that populational density in Sweden is much lower than in some countries in Central Europe like Germany or countries like Italy. Even in a big city like Stockholm you have lots of space between parts of the city. Most houses in Sweden are inhabited by people who live alone. Fact is that many people were dying in some regions of Italy and only total isolation helped to stop the spreading of the virus. There is also the city in Ecuador where dead people are thrown in the streets. Sweden, on the contrary, is a very rich country which is able to provide proper medical care, its population is more able to follow rules even if the rules are only reccomendations and the populational density of the country is low compared to other parts of Europe. If that is not the case, you may have to have shut down measures.

    Of course there is the question of the future and of the immunity of the population. We don’t know if this problem is going to be solved by a vaccine, by effective medical treatment, by growing immunity of the poulation or at all. Why did countries like Germany follow a more restrictive policy? Because it wanted its medical system to function properly, what wouldn’t have been possible if a large number of people got sick at the same time. In Italy a large number of medical personal were infected, hospitals weren’t functioning well and people were sent to German hospitals (also from France). That’s what may happen if the situation gets out of control.

    There remains the economic side of the shut down. Germany has a large number of laws and regulations against unemployment and to help business. I think that there are possibilities in this domain and that a recession isn’t inevitable. In any case, we are in a bad situation if we are not able to slow down our economies for even a few weeks. Then we need another economic system.

    • Replies: @obwandiyag
    , @anon
    , @refl
  13. Anon[230] • Disclaimer says:
    @davidgmillsatty

    You do not know that. Our health care system could be in far worse shape. What if the health care system of every major city was as overwhelmed as NYC?

    Really? And where is your evidence that our health care system is overwhelmed? Is this why hospitals are laying off medical staff around the country?

    https://www.vox.com/2020/4/8/21213995/coronavirus-us-layoffs-furloughs-hospitals

  14. botazefa says:
    @davidgmillsatty

    What if the health care system of every major city was as overwhelmed as NYC?

    Certainly there was widespread concern NYC hospitals *could* be overwhelmed, but was there any direct evidence that they *were* overwhelmed? I don’t think so.

    Didn’t Cuomo announce yesterday that excess ventilators were being sent elsewhere?

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
  15. @Sincerity.net

    Churches in Sweden are open, there are services, and very few people wear masks.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Art
  16. SteveK9 says:

    Hang in there Sweden!! There will be a huge effort to ignore this, when Sweden turns out to be in the same range or better than other European Countries … who destroyed their economies, for nothing.

    Start at 25:44 here for the ‘lockdown’ versus ‘non-lockdown’ States in the US and Countries in Europe:

    https://21stcenturywire.com/2020/04/17/ukc-news-government-doubles-down-on-covid-19-lockdown-pushing-vaccine-solution/

  17. SteveK9 says:

    Currently 4/18/20 data from ECDC, a few countries:

    Sweden (no lockdown):
    Covid Mortality 13.69 Deaths / 100,000 Population
    Annual Mortality 916.5 Deaths / 100,000 Population

    Italy (lockdown, lockdown fans can claim too late):
    Covid Mortality 37.69 Deaths / 100,000 Population
    Annual Mortality 1056.6 Deaths / 100,000 Population

    Spain (lockdown):
    Covid Mortality 41.50 Deaths / 100,000 Population
    Annual Mortality 911.5 Deaths / 100,000 Population

    Brazil (no lockdown):
    Covid Mortality 0.99 Deaths / 100,000 Population
    Annual Mortality 650.3 Deaths / 100,000 Population

    Mexico (just started lockdown … why?):
    Covid Mortality 0.42 Deaths / 100,000 Population
    Annual Mortality 603.9 Deaths / 100,000 Population

  18. SteveK9 says:

    Here is one more country: The United States

    Covid Mortality 11.29 Deaths / 100,000 Population
    Annual Mortality 878.2 Deaths / 100,000 Population

    Trump tweeted a few days ago, how Sweden was really suffering and doing just terrible. Well, 13.69 versus 11.29 per 100,000 doesn’t sound all that different to me. Trump actually wanted to do a Sweden (as did Boris Johnson), but they were cowed by the Fauci’s of this World. Now they have to defend destroying their economies/societies, and have to attack Sweden.

    Sweden will probably be rewarded by being denied the bailout money. If it were ever more obvious that Countries need to get out of the Eurozone, I don’t know what that would be.

  19. Whitney implies that Trump is half-right, and various Democratic governors are wholly wrong.

    Note, as with Saab vs every other GM division, Sweden’s government is notably less activist than ours.

  20. Levtraro says:

    Sweden may be able to constitute a kind of control group: Did other countries go too far in the restrictions they have been imposing on their populations?

    Sweden and Norway, having similar demographics, geographic location, population density and size, and data collection systems, while having sharply contrasting policies for control of the SARS-CoV-2 spread, are indeed an interesting comparison. Norway imposed severe restrictions on mobility, gatherings, schooling, while Sweden has remained mostly open.

    Norway had an exponential growth of infected until the maximum 0f 399 in March 27 (severe restrictions started 15 days earlier). After that the number of infected has been decreasing linearly until the latest date in the database (yesterday), reaching just 32. Norwegian authorities claim that they have the epidemic under control and will start relaxing restrictions. Overall fatality rate in this period: 2.3%

    Sweden on the other hand has been on a stable exponential growth of the new infected from Feb. 29 to yesterday, having 676 new infected in the latest date. Overall fatality rate: 10.9%.

    Will Swedish authorities allow the continued exponential growth of the newly infected until it tapers off naturally, or don’t.

    • Replies: @Saggy
  21. COVID is just like climate change…in the sense that trying to fix it by gutting the economy will do more damage, than the disease itself.

    • Replies: @Craig Morris
    , @Anon11
  22. @Robert Dolan

    The wealthy can afford the shutdown ….

    The wealthy and “public servants.”

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  23. @botazefa

    Didn’t Cuomo announce yesterday that excess ventilators were being sent elsewhere?

    Next scandal: What will people think when they see pics of surplus ventilators being scrapped like old P-51s in the desert?

    • Replies: @Anon
  24. Anon[230] • Disclaimer says:
    @The Alarmist

    Next scandal: What will people think when they see pics of surplus ventilators being scrapped like old P-51s in the desert?

    Those infected with Trump Derangement Syndrome, for which there is no cure short of electro shock therapy will blame Trump instead of where the blame rightly belongs – Cuomo, Fauci and Birx.

  25. Compare Sweden to NYC, same population size.

    NYC shutdown, Sweden didn’t.

    Rounding numbers for the sake of argument, NYC has over 10K dead, but Sweden has a bit over
    1K dead.

    Roughly, NYC has ten times the number of dead.

    Sweden has one tenth the number of dead and still has a functioning economy.

    You can’t tell me it’s because “Sweden is cold.”

    It’s because Sweden was RIGHT.

    • Agree: acementhead
    • Replies: @Ola
    , @Laurence
  26. Ola says: • Website
    @Robert Dolan

    That’s crazy. Sweden and NYC may have the same population size, but the population density is very, very different. Norway and Finland are much more apt comparisons. They are both doing vastly better than Sweden and have taken much more “extreme” measures.

    The Stockholm area is as of yet the only area in Sweden that is badly afflicted by the virus. We will see what happens when the rest of the country is hit

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    , @Jaakko Raipala
  27. Anonymous[419] • Disclaimer says:
    @The Alarmist

    The wealthy and “public servants.”

    You forgot welfare recipients who get a check regardless at least until the public trough runs dry.

  28. MarkinLA says:
    @Ola

    The problem with all these comparisons is how many large cities does Finland and Norway have? How dependent are people on public transportation? What is the normal day to day contact people have.

    We see the same thing with California and New York. Most people in New York have to come to the city on packed trains. Once there they travel by packed subways. They have lunch in a more compact area. They generally live in stacked apartments, condos, or co-ops.

    In California people mostly live in detached houses. They drive to work by themselves in cars. They have far fewer jobs working very closely with someone.

    All the credit given to governments for doing this or that may simply be coincidence of what the normal living conditions are. In California, you have little close contact on a daily basis so the chance of someone giving you a high dose of virus that can overcome your immune system is a lot less. You might contact an asymptomatic carrier but your distance means you get a lower viral load and your immune system handles it. You build a small amount of immunity each time. In a New York subway your dosage would be much higher, maybe too high for the immune system to clear it before you get dosed again the next day.

  29. @UncommonGround

    “We need another economic system.” You said it.

    And somehow I suspect you don’t mean libertarianism.

  30. @Robert Dolan

    Sounds like the US needs a new economic system. One that can handle a shutdown. This idea probably never occurred to you, because, for Americans the world as it is is the only conceivable world.

    • Agree: Saggy, RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
  31. The author of this article doesn’t seem to understand politics is downstream of culture. “American culture” can no more cope with this by adopting Swedish ways than halt the Jewish destruction of white America.

  32. @Robert Dolan

    Indeed – in a place like the US with hardly any social safety net. This is why we need true Socialism and yes, let’s get all the boomers out there in happy crowds so the “boomer remover” can do its thing.

    • Replies: @info
    , @Jefferson Temple
  33. @Anon

    That’s been discussed at length on Reddit, with actual medical personnel chiming in – the US system of healthcare is based on profit. People aren’t having their bariatric surgeries, tummy tucks, etc., done, and they’re even holding off on things like appendicitis until it gets really bad (perforated) – a hospital can make money on a $10k-$20k appendectomy, but a $100,000 perforated one with trickier surgery and an ICU stay is something that hardly anyone can afford so they declare bankruptcy.

    • Replies: @Anon
  34. anon[161] • Disclaimer says:
    @UncommonGround

    “The case of Sweden may be a very special case.”

    Yes, and each country has its own circumstances. Austria took the exact opposite approach and is doing as well or better than Sweden. (Perhaps better, since they are ahead in the epidemic cycle.)

    Covid-19 has really brought out the stupid in Unz commenters, a highly opinionated bunch that seem mathematically and conceptually challenged. Too bad if Whitney has fallen into that class. I may have to read the article. 🙁

    • Replies: @Biff
  35. Just when you thought the ethnic Swedes were a bunch of has been, completely incapable of looking out for their own interests, they do something very sensible.

    • Replies: @Hail
  36. anon[233] • Disclaimer says:

    No, they’re not. Taiwan took this seriously from the start and now they have the best of both worlds: practically no deaths AND a functioning economy. But seeing how badly the incompetent liberal West has dealt with this crisis, they may not have a choice. Asia is the future. The West is filled with selfish money worshipers, crackpots, low IQs, and paper document fetishists. The West is doomed.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  37. info says:
    @alex in San Jose AKA Digital Detroit

    True Socialism has never been tried. The same old fallacy.

  38. cortesar says:

    Sweden in the end in terms of fatalities will be roughly the same +- ratio as other countries
    As such it will represent a challenge to all corona doomsday lunatics and to the quasi totality of corrupted cowardly politicians who destroyed world (economy) over a flu
    I hope that those facing long joblessness and misery will come to knock on the doors of these charlatans asking for the accounts to be settled and by that I mean that I would be overjoyed by witnessing scenes of street lamp poles being tested to their ultimate capacity

    • Agree: Beefcake the Mighty
  39. Dino says:

    This mass hysteria is not sustainable. People who believe their immune system is weak should take precaution and stay home. It’s been already proven that covid is not that dangerous to anyone who is healthy. This whole PC culture is gone out of hands. Missing south park right now. They might have put an episode telling how crazy we are and how stupidly we are destroying ourselves on threat of virus. How will we ever defend if there is a really a bio warfare? Why spend trillions of dollars developing nuclear bombs when someone can destroy the world with invisible virus. That day will come but covid is not that.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
  40. Wally says:
    @Rubaiyat

    “Anglos are sick in the head.”

    Said by a lazy incompetent Marxist who free rides off of “Anglos”

  41. Hail says: • Website

    What the Swedish experiment demonstrates, is that there’s a way to navigate these unprecedented public health challenges without recklessly imposing police state policies and without doing irreparable harm to the economy.

    Thank you, Mike Whitney!

    I would only add that the only thing definitely “unprecedented” here is the reaction. Not the deadliness of the virus, which may still prove to be a bad flu strain. It is not nothing, but in final analysis it may not be worth calling “unprecedented” for the 21st century. The extremist ‘Shutdown’ reaction(s), definitely.

    As we have learned now, over and over again, this flu is a flu.”
    — Dr. Knut Wittkowski, thirty-year internationally recognized expert in epidemiology, writing April 15, commenting on the coronavirus pandemic.

    (See also Dr. Wittkowski’s running commentary on the Corona Panic in a series of replies I have (re-)posted at the Steve Sailer blog).

  42. Hail says: • Website
    @Jefferson Temple

    “I’d like to congratulate the entire world on making Sweden look like a sane country. They could not have done this without your help.” — Lars Porsena

    Hail to you, Sweden.

    • Agree: mark green
  43. Anonymous[785] • Disclaimer says:
    @Digital Samizdat

    Denmark has an overall COVID-19 death rate of 0.006% of the population, while Sweden’s would be 0.01%. Sure, there’s a difference. But the effective death rates are so incredibly tiny in both cases that it hardly makes sense to quibble over the Swedish approach from a public health perspective.

    Hang on.. If we assume the average person lives for 80 years, thats about 4,160 weeks. A 4 week lockdown is therefore about 0.1% of our lives. So that means we’re seriously degrading 0.1% of human lifespan to save 0.01%? Not worth it. Let us life freely and die when we die.

    • Replies: @TheTrumanShow
  44. slorter says:
    @Anon

    Really The Us economy was already in bad shape before the crisis Rip Van Winkle!

  45. Sweden’s economy has crashed anyway. Yes, movie theaters are open but attendance is down 90%. No one is going to restaurants, people are not going shopping. Swedes aren’t stupid, for the most part, and can be trusted to observe social distancing without as much government intervention. But Sweden shows there is really no “leave the economy open” option when people refuse to participate because of a raging epidemic.

    Even so, Sweden’s death rate is horrendous compared to Austria and Germany. Austria clamped down hard and fast, and we are now already starting to ease up.

  46. mcohen says:
    @Anon

    The idea is not to keep the economy open but to cut excess population.The free ride of unlimited resources is over.

    • Agree: follyofwar
  47. Confirmed deaths from COVID19 is 140 per million people in Sweden and in the US is 117 per million people! So there’s no correct or smarter plan or strategy for managing this pandemic anywhere yet! May be in couple of years the world will learn from this pandemic how to manage the next one! Hopefully we won’t put our experiences and learnings from this pandemic on a shelf and forget about them. But I do bet that we will forget about the whole thing!

  48. Brewer says:

    Sweden vs COVID-19: Why ‘Herd Immunity’ Matters and Why Lockdown Doesn’t Really Work
    https://21stcenturywire.com/2020/04/18/sweden-vs-covid-19-why-natural-herd-immunity-matters-and-why-lockdown-doesnt-really-work/
    (Good site, good vid)

    A study out of Stanford University tested California residents and found that the Covid-19 infection rate is likely far higher than has been reported, but the virus could also be less deadly than commonly believed.

    World Health Organization director-general Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus has previously mentioned 3.4 percent. This would translate into over 300 deaths per every 10,000 infected persons. Stanford’s study would lower the mortality rate to .14 percent or less, meaning 14 deaths or less per 10,000 people infected.

    The study concludes that Covid-19’s mortality rate among infected people would be on par with, or even less, than the seasonal flu.

    Michael Mina, an immunologist and assistant professor of epidemiology at Harvard, tweeted agreement with the study on Friday and theorized 30 million people or more could be infected with Covid-19 in the US, but further “consistent studies” could show that “population immunity is already building up.”

    If shown to be consistent in additional studies, such high numbers infected would suggest 1) SARS-CoV-2 has a much lower fatality rate than we think (by an order of magnitude or more) 2) Population immunity is already building upElderly would still remain vulnerable… 2/n
    — Michael Mina (@michaelmina_lab) April 17, 2020

    Research on a group of blood donors in Denmark points to its Covid-19 mortality rate being well below one percent of the number of people infected with the disease, according to a team at the Rigshospitalet in Copenhagen.
    Tests were carried out on 1,487 samples from Danish blood donors at the hospital showed a mortality rate of just 0.16 percent.
    The study also suggested that far more people than the 5,000 figures
    currently show have caught the virus with the number possibly being as
    high as 400,000.
    https://www.rt.com/news/486017-denmark-covid19-mortality-study/

    Nearly 90 percent of U.S. coronavirus patients who have been hospitalized have underlying health problems, or comorbidities, reports the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).
    The Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report (MMWR), released Wednesday, focuses on hospitalization rates and characteristics of patients hospitalized with confirmed coronavirus disease, or COVID-19.
    CDC reports among 1,482 patients from 14 states who were hospitalized with COVID-19 in March, 74.5 percent were 50 years of age or older, and 54.4 percent were male.
    According to Dr. Shikha Garg and associates, during the month of March, among 178 (12%) adult patients with data on underlying conditions, 89.3% had one or more underlying conditions:

    [T]he most common were hypertension (49.7%), obesity (48.3%), chronic lung disease (34.6%), diabetes mellitus (28.3%), and cardiovascular disease (27.8%).
    https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6915e3.htm?s_cid=mm6915e3_w

    • Agree: Michael888
  49. @Anon

    Mike Whitney is showing his white bias

    Yes. You’d almost think he was white himself, or something.

  50. “Sweden Is Right”

    And that title is on a right wing website. Well, I guess now I can die peacefully…

    • LOL: Bardon Kaldian
    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  51. @Sincerity.net

    What does Sweden say about masks?

    For one thing, Scandis don’t wear masks – it messes with our style. In Copenhagen, about one in a thousand wear a mask.

    Secondly, the Swedish policy depends on infecting as many young and healthy people as fast as possible in order to build up herd immunity, so wearing masks is counterproductive.

    • Agree: Bardon Kaldian
  52. Antares says:
    @Rubaiyat

    “The economy IS our life. ”

    Anglos are sick in the head.

    You can’t understand economy if you are only able to express value in money.

  53. GeeBee says:

    ‘These countries must dip into their reserves or take out loans from the IMF in order to recover from the lack of production and activity

    And there you have it ladies and gentlemen!

    • Agree: Digital Samizdat
  54. If USA had implemented a full quarantine since March. This virus would already be over.

    Half ass measures, denials, retarded screams would do nothing.

    Now it seems we should kill the old for the economy.

    Find a way to protect the old and let the young brave the risks. 15 more months till vaccine if there is one.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    , @Anon
  55. Bas says:

    Reading commends shows levels of indoctrination, hiding the IQ gradient. Popping out are the ones attacking anyone finding wrongs with government tales. In past European history this resulted in a inquisition times making all believers. This believing only stopped in the recent cold war and is dearly missed.

  56. sarz says:

    It’s odd the author did not mention that residents of Sweden of Somali extraction, not having the culture and discipline of Swedes, are dropping like flies. The guy in charge admits it and says that’s life.

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
  57. @Felix Keverich

    COVID is also like climate change in that the reaction to it can more or less follows party lines.

  58. Anonymous[661] • Disclaimer says:

    I wouldn’t be surprised if they were planning on forcing everyone in America to sign a loyalty oath to Israel as a condition to being allowed out of lockdown.

    • LOL: Digital Samizdat
    • Replies: @Johnny Smoggins
  59. I’d argue the call to arms isn’t “the economy is our life” but

    “WHOSE economy is our life?”

  60. refl says:
    @Brás Cubas

    Brazil is clearly ungovernable. Don’t waste your time with it. (Of course you may be a resident, and thus obliged to waste your time with it to a certain extent. That is my own case.)

    Isso e uma das pocas coisas que me dao esperanca nestos tempos de imbecilidade: No peor o meu pais de primero mundo vai acabar como um Brazil mais frio, com gente que nao sabem o que quer dizer a palavra “jeito”.

    When they open up for travellers I can not go to Poland or Austria, but I can take a 16 hour flight to Rio.
    I was devastated by what happened to Lula, though I did not follow the story closely. So at least the new leadership is good for something, maybe.

    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
  61. @sarz

    The technical term for this is positive outcome.;)

  62. Anon[230] • Disclaimer says:
    @alex in San Jose AKA Digital Detroit

    That’s been discussed at length on Reddit, with actual medical personnel chiming in

    Yes, Reddit is such a realizable place to get inputs from the medical community. No one ever misrepresents their qualifications there.

    – the US system of healthcare is based on profit. People aren’t having their bariatric surgeries, tummy tucks, etc., done, and they’re even holding off on things like appendicitis
    until it gets really bad (perforated) – a hospital can make money on a $10k-$20k appendectomy, but a $100,000 perforated one with trickier surgery and an ICU stay is something that hardly anyone can afford so they declare bankruptcy.

    It is true that hospitals instituted policies to not perform elective procedures in order to make room and free up hospital personnel for the millions of Covid -19 patients which were predicted by the so called medical experts like Fauci and his cabal, When the predicted millions of Covid 19 patients never materialized, this left excess hospital capacity and personnel and empty ICUs – hence the layoffs.

    No hospital is postponing any non-elective procedures like appendectomies especially since a burst appendix is unpredictable and extremely fatal.

  63. Anonymous[628] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    Why is Sweden the example to follow and not Brazil who has over 20 times the population of Sweden?

    Maybe because nobody anywhere wants to be a second Brazil?

    • Replies: @Ancient Briton
  64. GeorgK says:
    @Peter Akuleyev

    Agreed.
    Plus, Sweden is testing very lazily, so infection numbers might be much higher, which also explains the high death numbers.
    But even if someone assumes high dark figures, it would still take Sweden many years to establish “herd immunity”. In the end, they will have to rely on active immunization like all the others.

    BTW, Volvo shut down its Torslanda factory just a few days after VW did so on its european factories, and both will re-open next week. The whole fuzz about Sweden “not being in a shut-down” ist just stupid fake news. In fact, they have an extremly inefficient partial shut-down, with lots of impact on the economy, but very little impact on infection rates.

    But what would one expect from a government under the uneducated moron Löfven?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  65. anon[191] • Disclaimer says:

    Sweden didn’t keep their economy going because of some great wisdom in their government policy, no it’s girly government was dead scared of its wild muslim population going on the rampage if told to socially distance themselves or stay in their homes. How would we deal with thousands of hairy muslim men rioting and tearing our cities apart the government ladies said? They called up Barbara Lerner Spectre their hero and asked for her advise. Her answer wasn’t to upset their muslim darlings, what’s a few thousand dead Swedes anyway! Infrastructure is more important than Swedes We’re trying to get rid of them, remember?

    • Replies: @BDS Always
  66. anon[191] • Disclaimer says:
    @israel shamir

    Very few people go to church in Sweden, more go to the mosque.

    • LOL: Tusk
  67. @Anon

    It is a perverted mind that sees here White Bias and White privilege. It is not your body which is sick unto death but your soul.

  68. Biff says:
    @anon

    Covid-19 has really brought out the stupid in Unz commenters, a highly opinionated bunch that seem mathematically and conceptually challenged. Too bad if Whitney has fallen into that class. I may have to read the article. 🙁

    I don’t believe you, or any of it until I witness it with my own lying eyes.

    • Replies: @anon
  69. @davidgmillsatty

    Any health system will be overwhelmed when it treats the dead instead of the living.

  70. onebornfree says: • Website

    “…This isn’t a question of putting profits before people. The economy IS our life. Try to make a living without an economy. Try to feed your family or pay the rent or buy a car or do anything without an economy. We need the economy. Working people need the economy, and we need to find a way to do two things at the same time: Keep the economy running and save as many lives as possible. The idea that we can just do one of these things and not the other, is not only blatantly false, it is destructive to our own best interests. We have to do both, there is no other way….”

    Coming: Total Economic Devastation:

    This is the issue that all of the “total lockdown like China is good” halfwits here and elsewhere steadfastly ignore. That issue being the guaranteed for many years into the future, total economic devastation worldwide, particularly in the 3rd world countries where subsistence levels are already on a “knifes edge”, let alone in the US and Europe etc. Millions of extra deaths worldwide, by starvation, in other words.

    Are any of the “lockdown is good” halfwit mo’fo’s in power ever going to be held accountable for their innate stupidity[if not downright criminality]? Sadly, I very much doubt it.

    “.. Regardless of how or where this started, the totalitarian response is the real pandemic, as the response itself will cause the deaths of many more people than any fake virus has the ability to do. This is the truth that is shunned, as isolation, economic collapse, financial ruin, poverty, bankruptcy, unemployment, and extreme fear will have enormous and deadly ramifications for years to come. The psychological damage alone will be devastating, and sickness, immune system damage, suicide, abuse, and violence will escalate beyond anything imagined. In addition, economic systems across all sectors will not magically go back to normal when things reopen, and the fallout from these factors will cause extensive harm to individuals, families, and businesses for years to come….”

    From: “Coronavirus Deception, Lies, Fakery, and Fraud Trumps the Truth”:
    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/04/gary-d-barnett/coronavirus-deception-lies-fakery-and-fraud-trumps-the-truth/

    May all of these power mad mo’fo’s , from the top, all the way down to the very bottom[ i.e the many “lockdown is good/necessary ” useful idiots posting here], all rot in hell, [or worse, before they even get there]. They all deserve it. Phuck em all.

    Regards, onebornfree

  71. refl says:
    @UncommonGround

    There remains the economic side of the shut down. Germany has a large number of laws and regulations against unemployment and to help business.

    As I see corona as a new stage in the hybrid war to make Europe terminaly ungovernable, after the financial crisis and the refugee crisis (with numerous smaller events in between), here you have one of the mayor tasks that have been achieved already:
    Germany still has maintained a high level of social security, which the empire allowed us to develop to counter the socialist challenge in the East.
    The original, positive plan of the EU was to extend this policy to Europe.

    With the corona madness Germany and the EU have finally overextended their means. Not that it would be very much of a regret at this point any longer, but it is definitely a historic turning point for the worse.

    And now everyone back to the numbers game. Avoid seeing the bigger picture, for you might not be able to bear it.

  72. Sweden is over 95% white.
    And yes, that matters.

  73. Sweden is a mess—Whitney is generally good on economic issues, albeit over the top hysterical on some occasions. But this is simply ideology overcoming science. Sweden’s approach has been a clear failure.

    • Disagree: Robert Dolan
  74. @Peter Akuleyev

    Even so, Sweden’s death rate is horrendous compared to Austria and Germany. Austria clamped down hard and fast, and we are now already starting to ease up.

    Any particular reason why death rate won’t go up again, the moment you ease up? It only takes one infected person to restart exponential growth.

    • Agree: Sean
  75. Fred777 says:

    “Taiwan took this seriously from the start and now they have the best of both worlds: practically no deaths AND a functioning economy. ”

    China has forbidden us to look at the Taiwanese example, so we will oblige our Chicom superiors.

  76. anonymous[794] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dino

    Speaking of the new PC, yesterday I went to a completely empty Verizon store. A man in a mask came and cracked open the door, and then barked at me in a threatening voice to get behind a line outside the door and that unless I needed basic service to call my “loved ones” I had to go online. I then went around the corner, walked in Target, and ran into three cute teen girls sitting together at the returns desk. I told them the story about the man next door at Verizon, about their fathers’ age, and what asses such people can be who’re using this hoax as a power trip. The girls laughed and enthusiastically agreed people coming in the store are acting like fools.

    My point is, that useful idiot at Verizon’s lockdown behavior, which turns out to be Verizon policy, shows there’s a control agenda out there that’s deeply sinister because it bears no sensible relation to actual risk. Although it’s inconsistently applied at this point, we should expect it across the board when the already announced rolling blackouts of public life become the new normal.

    So, even as they’re waiting an hour on line to show their ID and have their temperature checked before going in the grocery store, the same PC types proudly wearing masks as political virtue signaling today will be walking around tomorrow with “I voted”-style stickers that say, “I just got vaccinated.” T. S. Eliot had it right about the Hollow Men,

    This is the way the world ends
    This is the way the world ends
    This is the way the world ends
    Not with a bang but a whimper.

    • Agree: Mehen
  77. gotmituns says:
    @davidgmillsatty

    The only reason the NYC hospitals are “overwhelmed” is because of the large number of Hispanics and blacks in the city. Two notoriously unhealthy groups. I don’t think the orientals are that healthy either.

  78. Emslander says:
    @The Alarmist

    I’d rather die tomorrow than live according to Ezekial Emmanuel’s dictates for a hundred years.

  79. NoLock says:

    Sweden has just been lucky – so far. To a large extent this “luckiness” depends on letting elderly die
    in their care homes without attempting to save their lives, and then not counting them towards
    the official death tally. Plus, even the official case tally still shows exponential growth. Visit c19.se,
    a private website that aggregates official Swedish data. Click on the logarithmic option, and it
    becomes apparent that case numbers really do rise exponentially. And that’s relative to a very
    restrictive testing regime. PCR testing per capita in Sweden is nowhere near the levels other countries
    have achieved. And it’s nonsense to claim, as Sweden does, that a hammer and dance approach must
    lead to catastrophically increased death rates further down the line. It may be inconvenient, but what
    you do if there are flare-ups once restrictions are lifted, is that you re-introduce restrictions. Nobody
    can know for sure what works, so you go about lifting restrictions in a trial-and-error fashion. If
    anything, it is totally disingenuous to let Sweden get away with its much more radical trial-and-error,
    which is herd immunity, even if Sweden refuses to call it that way. We know that lock-downs together
    with other measures like wearing masks work; who knows whether Sweden-style herd immunity will work?
    Too little is known about the virus to make this call. The real reason why Sweden follows its approach
    is purely political. Sweden is ruled by an alliance between heavily mortgaged left-wing liberals on the
    one hand, and suburb-based migrant clans on the other hand. Tegnell appears to be a typical
    representative of the former; migrants have penetrated deep into middle management practically
    everywhere. Upper management types like Tegnell and Stefan Löfvén, the prime minister, know full
    well that migrant-heavy suburbs could and would never go into lock-down. These areas are just too
    densely populated and culturally and mentally not prepared for anything like that. So why even bother?
    If Tegnell or Löfvén or whomever at the top-level would really push for lock-down, then they would
    quickly be reined in by migrants who sit directly beneath them on less visible but nevertheless crucial positions. If lock-down were still to be attempted, it would quickly be broken by rioting migrant youth.
    It would be lock-down for everyone except for the suburbs, just like in France. Sweden with its migrant-heavy, left-wing indoctrinated police force of just about 20,000 would not stand a chance in hell
    if it wanted to impose “lock-down.” All that is left for the leadership is to rationalize, and that’s what we
    are seeing. Large parts of the population, in particular city-dwelling left-wing liberals, go along with
    it because they have exactly the same mentality. Instead of putting Sweden on a pedestal, it should be
    scolded for culling its elderly for the sake of upholding its left-wing, multicultural house of cards. Sweden
    has gone so far down the rabbit hole, the world should celebrate if it finally has to face reality due to
    SARS-CoV-2.

  80. Saggy says: • Website
    @Levtraro

    I’m a fan of Mike Whitney, but this article seems stupid, the first reason being that it totally ignores the countries that took draconian measures and controlled CV, that is is China and South Korea.

    So, I think, how about comparing Sweden with New York. First population figures …
    New York state – 19,000,000 (!)
    New York city – 18,000,000
    Sweden – 10,000,000

    So the populations are roughly comparable.

    For a while NY city did nothing, i.e. followed the Swedish approach, and disaster ensued.

    And if this is correct (population Norway 5,,000,000)

    Norway had an exponential growth of infected until the maximum 0f 399 in March 27 (severe restrictions started 15 days earlier). After that the number of infected has been decreasing linearly until the latest date in the database (yesterday), reaching just 32. Norwegian authorities claim that they have the epidemic under control and will start relaxing restrictions. Overall fatality rate in this period: 2.3%

    Sweden on the other hand has been on a stable exponential growth of the new infected from Feb. 29 to yesterday, having 676 new infected in the latest date. Overall fatality rate: 10.9%

    .there is another argument for the stupidity of the article.
    What is (would be) Whitney’s response?

    • Agree: FB
  81. @Anon

    You could’ve made your point without resorting to the trite “white bias” and “white privilege” terms.

    Now you just sound whiny, common and stupid.

  82. Vojkan says:

    Even if Sweden ends up having a greater number per capita of deaths from COVID-19, the true tally will be when deaths due to giving absolute priority to treating COVID-19 over other diseases and lockdown related deaths are counted. I think what governments enforcing lockdowns are doing can pretty much be summed up as “burning down the village in order to save it”.
    Call me a conspiracy nut but I can’t help but surmise that there are ulterior motives to all this.

  83. Ann K. says:
    @Sincerity.net

    In a post-Christian place like Sweden, church services are not large gatherings.

    • Agree: Herald
  84. Mr.T says:

    Swedish model looks like it will be an utter failure , as rest of Europe is slowly preparing gradual reopening Sweden only now looking at lockdowns as body count is starting to pileup ,end result will be longer lockdown and all neighoring countries implementing border closing with Sweden till they get a grip on situation. Economic fallout will be at least as big but likely bigger than rest of EU

    Comparing NY mortality to Sweden is not relevant , Sweden is sparsely populated while NY is metropolis , hence for much of Sweden business as usual automaticaly resoults in social distancing equal or better than shelter at home can enact in NY or any other megacity.

    Swedens policy is not some bright star idea its just a resoult of goverments detached from reality for past decade or two preocupied with gender and identity politics and in utter denial of reality .

    • Replies: @Saggy
  85. Vojkan says:
    @Peter Akuleyev

    How many people will die who could have been cured of other diseases and live if they hadn’t been denied treatment due to giving absolute priority to COVID-19?

    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev
  86. But Sweden doesn’t have Blacks, Puerto Ricans and a large number of Hasidic Jews … do you really think that the three groups would follow directives as authority conscious Swedes would?

  87. MarkinLA says:
    @anon

    Taiwan had the advantage of knowing China and the WHO were lying.

    • Replies: @Three of Swords
  88. @Anonymous

    “I wouldn’t be surprised if they were planning on forcing everyone in America to sign a loyalty oath to Israel as a condition to being allowed out of lockdown.”

    I know you’re being facetious, but it’s really not that difficult to imagine that being true in states like Florida and New York. That or “the cure” vaccine comes from Israel and everyone but Nazis gets access to it.

  89. @Ola

    We are not doing any better than *Swedes*. The vast majority of dead in Sweden are migrants, especially Somalians, who don’t follow the advice and instead still gather in mosques and such. They also have high levels of obesity and poor health in general compared to ethnic Swedes.

    Take out the non-Swedes from Swedish statistics and Sweden isn’t doing any worse than Denmark or Norway. Also note that the virus arrived later to Finland.

    The median age of the dead here is 81. This virus only kills people who already have one foot in the grave. They were about to get knocked over by the next flu anyway so we aren’t saving anyone, just postponing their death – unless we make this lockdown permanent so that they’re protected from every flu epidemic but then modern society will collapse and they’ll die anyway as the nursing homes and hospitals won’t be around to extend lifespans.

  90. Chepo says:
    @Brás Cubas

    What are reliable sources of news and politics of Brazil?

    And Argentina?

  91. @Rubaiyat

    We don’t know how to part the Red Sea, or walk on water or fly from Mecca to the “eternal” city on a donkey but we do know that the life depends upon economic activities and not on daydreaming!

  92. Anonymous[785] • Disclaimer says:
    @GeorgK

    But even if someone assumes high dark figures, it would still take Sweden many years to establish “herd immunity”.

    No… It takes a few weeks.

    • Agree: Hail
  93. Anon[230] • Disclaimer says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    If USA had implemented a full quarantine since March. This virus would already be over.

    Yes, and if we put everyone in straight jackets, there would be no deaths by suicide either. The question is not whether quarantines work. The question is whether Covid-19 warrants such a severe curtailment of civil liberties. Covid-19 deaths are less than the flu and much less than diseases like Tuberculosis which kill over 1.5 million a year so the answer is no – Quarantines are not warranted.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  94. vot tak says:

    “What the Swedish experiment demonstrates, is that there’s a way to navigate these unprecedented public health challenges without recklessly imposing police state policies and without doing irreparable harm to the economy.”

    Has the Chinese economy been “irreparably harmed”? Temporarily depressed is a better description. They are returning to work and their economy will return to norman levels fairly soon, probably by the end of the year. The main variable that may prevent this is a reduction of exports brought on by the zpc/nwo war against China and their own artificially depressed economies.

    As for sweden’s response to the virus:

    Sweden’s flawed coronavirus battle plan hits the poor & elderly, resulting in worst death count among Nordic countries

    https://www.rt.com/op-ed/485522-sweden-coronavirus-worst-death-count/

    “Sweden has not only the highest rate of fatalities per capita, but also the total death toll is higher than that of all the other Nordic countries put together. As of April 10, Sweden has 86 Covid-19 fatalities per one million of population, while Finland has nine, Norway 20, and Denmark 43. (The US has 47, and Russia 0.5 Covid-19 fatalities per one million, respectively).

    The authorities have been repeating for weeks that the paramount aim of their strategy is to protect the elderly. But 40 percent of all victims were infected in homes housing them. And while no testing has been provided to the personnel taking care of these elderly, the virus has reached one third of Stockholm nursing homes. The vast majority of Covid-19 deaths in Sweden corresponds to people aged over 70.

    Furthermore, areas in the Stockholm region inhabited mainly by immigrants with lower socioeconomic status are overrepresented among those infected by the virus. It is the worst in Rinkeby-Kista (the suburb referred to by Trump in his renowned quote “Look what happened last night in Sweden”) which exhibits the highest rate per capita (48 per 10,000). In social-privileged areas, e.g. Kungsholmen, it is only nine cases per 10,000. On March 16, an independent organization of Somali physicians revealed that at least six out of 15 fatalities that occurred in Stockholm were of Somali origin.

    Further measures detrimental to the elderly’s odds partly consist in new instructions to doctors as to how to prioritize the selection of patients to be treated in intensive care units. Clearly, patients of a biological age 8o or over should not be prioritized. The same regarding people 70-80 years old who have a significant disease in more than one organ system. Neither should people aged 60-70 who have similar failure in more than two organ systems be eligible for intensive care.

    The above rules are to be applied in situations where there are not enough critical beds. But even if the authorities have now made efforts to increase bed availability, Sweden was, according to EU statistics, the country in Europe with the lowest number of curative care beds in hospitals. Local mainstream media reported that during the 90s Sweden dismantled most parts of their field hospitals which had been kept in case of major catastrophes. Other measures affecting the elderly is that all planned operations (e.g. cancer, etc.) have been canceled. The number of operations decreased by five thousand during the previous week alone.”

    I guess if one is a middle class, white, Judeo-Christian, one could say sweden has been doing it right. And if one is not? Oh well…

    • Replies: @Hegar
  95. @Anonymous

    But Brasil is the country of the future … And always will be. But is that so yesterday, today?

  96. “That’s why we should look to countries like Sweden that have taken a more measured approach that allow parts of the economy to continue to function during the epidemic, so other parts can gear-up quickly and return to full capacity with minimal disruption. This should not be a “liberal vs conservative” issue as it’s become in the United States. One should not oppose restarting the economy just because Trump is ‘for it’ . . .”

    Laughing.

    I don’t much care whether one wants to jump start, slow freeze, slow thaw or crash the system. The system has been operating in never never land for a long time. And the introduction of women into the areas of economic structuration has not made the system any better. Just some push back against this nonsense that women intuitively have a better insight than men — on all things in all ways — history has demonstrated the notion entirely false. I was rear ended wearing bright lime green clothes, a flashing and steady rear tail lights, a white towel cover my upper back and a yellow bike, by a woman — so much for safe driving with — my anecdotal whine. An women have no better sense of what is just and fair than anyone else — all these “old wives tales” simply are just that tales an myths. Women were just as eager to undermine their fellow citizens to make a dollar more on WS, abuse real estate valuations, send men off to war for needless reasons, scapegoat others, use legal machinations to get their way . . . undermine the social fabric . . .

    But what I do know is that anyone attempting to use a Swedish model or any economic model from Europe, Africa, Asia, or Latin countries absolutely has no idea what they are talking about. Not because there’s anything wrong intrinsically with those systems, and there may be issues, but because, the US remains drastically different in so many crucial ways in its development, not to mention its size and population —-

    The Swedish system is relatively small and contained and can be managed far more effectively for those reasons, not to mention they the system they have based on the same. One might want to examine how they engage in economic valuation. But my bet is that the rules simply are less applicable to a country Sweden’s size and cohesion.

    And to make it work here, one is talking about a huge socialist overhaul — and here is where the Socialist win — I was stunned that Sen Sanders quit and even more stunned that he didn’t use the obvious to beat any of his opponents. This was a great opportunity to say

    “The proof is in the ‘multiple crisis’ pudding. ”

    But allow me to tackle some of the substance . . . the author says,

    “He said authorities know that the physical distancing Swedes are engaging in works, because officials have recorded a sudden end to the flu season and to a winter vomiting illness.” (“Sweden sticks to ‘low-scale’ lockdown despite rise in coronavirus deaths’”, LA Times)”

    What utter miscalculation of the unknown to a peculiar conclusion —- end the “flu season”. Laugh . . . well, that does not by definition have anything to do with this particular virus — less vomiting and otherwise effects are in decline at the end of every flu season”. It is just these kinds of arguments that feed the further deconstruction of what should be cause to effect tought and behavior..

    I have supported this executive, through very dicey issues for a conservative, because I it simply was unfair — but my support isn’t going to extorted merely to be on his band wagon. And if he is making comparisons to Sweden as many do with Healthcare to their error, concerning modeling the economy — it just further demonstrates that a high priced elite education is not all its touted to be.

    But it might make an interesting showdown between those who want a “everything” centralized system and those who don’t.

    Sweden — you have got to be kidding.

  97. @MarkinLA

    What the Chinese did in Wuhan. What the Chinese did for 700 million of its citizens.

    It is what we should have done. It would already be over if we did.

    Half assing it is not working, it will not work. If and when NYC finally gets it under control, I am 100% sure it will be reintroduced by the surrounding areas as a lot of people working in Manhattan don’t live in NYC.

    For lock downs and quarantine to work, it needs to be simultaneous for all infected areas.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    , @Anonymous
  98. Saggy says: • Website
    @Mr.T

    Comparing NY mortality to Sweden is not relevant ,

    It is relevant if you are recommending that the Swedish approach should be universally applied, as the author does.

    Thus, the article mis-characterizes the results of the Swedish policy in Sweden, while recommending that it be applied universally. Just completely stupid at the most elementary level.

    • Replies: @vot tak
  99. Alfred says:

    The problem is very clear. Sweden is proving that the lockdown insisted by Bill Gates is nonsense and it has deliberately undermined the world economy, destroyed jobs, and is subjecting people to the loss of all privacy and liberty – but to what end? Is this a major socialist move to wipe out small business and then allow only state-run businesses or large corporations who donate to the Socialists for favored status to survive?

    Why is WHO Demanding Sweden Lockdown? Because They Show The Lockdown Makes no Difference? | Armstrong Economics

  100. @Anon

    What fucking liberties are you even talking about? The freedom to infect others n kill them? Fuck you.

    At this point, anyone comparing covid 19 to flu is automatically a sub human that needs to be culled. You are fucking dangerous to the rest of us. You fuckers are making me into a eugenics believer.
    Damn.

    The pox on you. Hell, the covid 19 on you.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/4-family-members-virginia-bishop-who-died-coronavirus-now-battling-n1187076

    I wish this was you. I feel dirty just typing this reply.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @botazefa
    , @L.K
    , @ploni almoni
  101. Yes, Sweden acted wisely and it had no part of the continuing Trump Coup attempts by agents if the establishment.

    Putative sexual assaults as reveled by some loser whom Trump spoke with
    Russia
    Impeachment
    Corona
    What’ll come next?

  102. Galearis says:

    But Sweden is suffering badly from the CV-19.
    Disappointing journalism that can kill.
    L.

    • Disagree: Robert Dolan
  103. Sweden was right and the people objecting have to lie to make Sweden look bad. Sweden is no worse off than any of the surrounding countries.

    You can add Arkansas, South Dakota, South Carolina, and a few other states that did not lockdown and are doing just fine.

    How do you whiny little bitches explain that?

    A shutdown is STUPID once the virus has already arrived. The time to lock the border is BEFORE the virus gets a foothold. Since that wasn’t done, it looks to me like they wanted the virus to spread. And you can’t tell me they didn’t know because many govt. officials sold their stocks knowing what was coming.

    And the idiots screech that the lockdown and social distancing saved the day!

    HORSESHIT.

    Allowing people to continue to go to Costco, packed in like sardines, saved the day?

    Once the virus is in your country it’s going to spread. Period.

    Ruining the economy makes no sense whatsoever. The lockdowns are stupid.

    Never before in history have they quarantined healthy people. It’s absurd.

    You isolate the sick and old and allow the rest to go to work.

    • Agree: Mehen, Vojkan, Michael888
  104. @alex in San Jose AKA Digital Detroit

    Yes, I believe you are a true socialist. Wishing for a massive die-off of a group that’s inconvenient for your “utopian” dream.

  105. onebornfree says: • Website

    From elsewhere on this very site:

    “Why Voluntary Compliance Is Key to Fighting COVID-19: Dr. Jeremy S. Faust”:
    https://www.unz.com/video/reasontv_why-voluntary-compliance-is-key-to-fighting-covid-19-dr-jere/

    Regards, onebornfree

  106. @refl

    Isso e uma das pocas coisas que me dao esperanca nestos tempos de imbecilidade: No peor o meu pais de primero mundo vai acabar como um Brazil mais frio, com gente que nao sabem o que quer dizer a palavra “jeito”.

    Your fears (or hopes) may be warranted. What they’re doing to the Economy in the first world will have consequences. I used to think that rebuilding economies was easy, based on the examples of pos-WWII Germany and Japan. But I don’t know if that experiment may be replicated today, especially since we don’t know if there will be an equivalent of 1945 U.S.A. to lend a hand.

  107. Trinity says:

    Sweden, like America, has a helluva lot more to worry about than the Kosher Crud. The average Swede, and by Swede, I mean an honest to goodness WHITE person of Swedish origin, is probably more likely to be attacked by a black or brown skinned diversity than the Jew Flu.

    IF only more sweat and time would be spent INVESTIGATING THIS MANUFACTURED VIRUS AS A CRIME SCENE instead of talking about FUDGED death statistics or FAKE infection cases, then maybe we could start the road back to a healthy recovery. Economy? Really? The economy isn’t going to be there or mean shit after your country turns into a turd world toilet. SAVING YOUR PEOPLE AND YOUR CULTURE should be the number one priority for Swedes, Germans, Italians, White Americans, the French, Spaniards, etc. Sweden for Swedes, Germany for Germans, etc., once this is achieved, the economy will improve, I GUARANTEE IT.

  108. Derer says:
    @Anon

    This is not a racial problem. Your racist comment just indicates your are suffering from inferiority issue. Make that visit, they can help you.

  109. @Saggy

    For a while NY city did nothing, i.e. followed the Swedish approach, and disaster ensued.

    That’s a bold statement. Where’s the evidence of causation? Besides, a bunch of old, fat New Yorkers croaking is hardly a disaster … it’s actually a good start.

    • Replies: @Vojkan
  110. @Saggy

    What is (would be) Whitney’s response?

    I’ll answer for him: “confirmed cases” is a meaningless figure. Just forget about it altogether.

    The figures to keep a look on are intensive-care cases and corona-related deaths, and especially their trends. How do these look in Sweden? Let’s see:

    Daily Deaths

    Apr 19: 29
    Apr 18: 111
    Apr 17: 67
    Apr 16: 130
    Apr 15: 170
    Apr 14: 114
    Apr 13: 20
    Apr 12: 12
    Apr 11: 17
    Apr 10: 77
    Apr 9: 106
    Apr 8: 96
    Apr 7: 114
    Apr 6: 76
    Apr 5: 28
    Apr 4: 15
    Apr 3: 50
    Apr 2: 69
    Apr 1: 59

    Daily New Intensive-Care Cases

    Apr 19: 9 (preliminary)
    Apr 18: 18 (preliminary)
    Apr 17: 22 (preliminary)
    Apr 16: 31
    Apr 15: 33
    Apr 14: 37
    Apr 13: 45
    Apr 12: 32
    Apr 11: 45
    Apr 10: 38
    Apr 9: 31
    Apr 8: 44
    Apr 7: 46
    Apr 6: 41
    Apr 5: 45
    Apr 4: 33
    Apr 3: 42
    Apr 2: 46
    Apr 1: 43

    Doesn’t quite look like exponential growth, does it?

    • Agree: geokat62
    • Replies: @Saggy
  111. @Galearis

    Why are you lying?

    Sweden has 1400 dead. Not significantly more per capita than the surrounding nations.

    NYC has about 10K dead, at least six times the number that have died in Sweden, and they have about the same number of total population.

    It’s been obvious all along that the people screeching about Sweden have a political agenda, because they don’t want a control group to put the rest of the world to shame for wrecking their economies for no good reason.

    Problem is that quite a few states in the USA did not lock down either, and are no worse off.

    How do you idiots explain that?

    You don’t quarantine millions of perfectly healthy strong people and ruin their jobs and their futures.

    The obvious solution is to isolate the hot spots like NY, and allow the rest to function normally.

    The models were insanely WRONG. We went from 2.2 MILLION to maybe 60K, and that’s with fudging the numbers and blaming parachute deaths on Covid.

    TB kills 1.7 MILLION people per year. Not only that but we have incurable TB right here in America, the strain that is antibiotic resistant. You didn’t know that. And you don’t care.

    Covid is a POLITICAL VIRUS.

  112. @Chepo

    In Portuguese? I don’t read a lot about Brazil. It’s not interesting enough and may get depressing. For the bare minimum I need to survive, I generally stick to the mainstream media, e.g. Globo (TV and newspaper), but they are not exactly reliable, especially regarding the present pandemic. I am mostly immune from their lies because they are easy to detect when you are used to them. There is a site called El País which seems to be a reasonable alternative, though leaning a bit to the left.

  113. @davidgmillsatty

    No, Stockholm is actually a bit warmer than Detroit in the winter (even though Detroit is less than one degree north of Rome, Italy). The West Coasts of the major continents are mild. That’s why my native Seattle, which is the northernmost large US city – even farther north than the northern tip of Maine – is relatively mild (45/35 in winter). The colonists that landed in Virginia actually had to face colder winters than they did in London. Even Beijing, China is quite a bit colder than London. Europe doesn’t get cold until you go inland. Just like the US West Coast. (If you go east from Seattle it gets as cold as Stockholm and Detroit once you cross the mountains).

    Use your Internet. Sweden has already warmed up and has been in a Coronavirus conducive climate for about a month.

    This is about more than lives. People should have the freedom to decide what risks they take. When public policies balance freedom v. excess deaths we have no problem allowing many excess deaths to protect our freedoms. That’s why roughly 600,000 Americans die every year from smoking, alcohol and other drugs. Freedom has a strong value which needs to be balanced against costs – including lives.

    A couple years ago 61,000 people died from the flu and all I remember from the news cycle at the time was “Trump evil bad racist orangeman.”

    The government should only facilitate decision making – eg pass laws to allow for extended leave, job protection, and unemployment. Let us decide what risks to take. Whether it’s smoking, drinking, or going to a baseball game in the middle of a pandemic.

    • Replies: @davidgmillsatty
  114. anon[230] • Disclaimer says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    What … liberties are you even talking about? The freedom to infect others n kill them?

    No, I am talking about my right to live in a free society unencumbered by martial law. If you are so scared of being infected and dying, go quarantine yourself like Howard Hughes did or become a hermit but don’t inflict your isolationist and totalitarian society on me.

    I am always especially disgusted by those willing to give up their liberties for a little perceived security.

  115. Derer says:

    The WHO and their country lackeys are responsible for this hysteria. When the mortality statistics will be available it will show no difference from the year to year normal variation. Cancer and the (bad) economy are the biggest killers but now it is more fashionable to attribute death to Covid19.

    The food stores are opened and obviously people take precaution to avoid contamination. That self protection should apply to restaurants or any business. Lockdown was a stupid failing idea imposed by panic of so called “experts” in the field. It appears it does not even work.

  116. @Anon

    On the first part, agree. Bolsonaro has held the line like a champ. I think he’s even still putzing around without a mask shaking people’s hands.

    On the second part, if Trump had not gotten out of the way of the steamroller he would have been impeached and gibbeted by now.

    • Replies: @Liberty Mike
  117. ken19 says:

    The only flattening of the curve happening can only be seen on a ECG. It’s called Flat lining as in no brain activity.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  118. @davidgmillsatty

    Virtually every country that resisted lock downs ultimately gave in when their health care service got overwhelmed. Today I notice their new cases are up by 10%.

    I can only talk about the UK, but our government actually caved in at the first hint of public pressure – i.e. when they came to understand that the ‘herd immunity’ strategy would leave them vulnerable to campaigns of hysteria, promoted by socialist neurotics etc. Family members work as doctors, and they say that the hospitals they work in never got overwhelmed, and are currently much quieter than usual.

    • Replies: @davidgmillsatty
  119. Hegar says:

    I live in Sweden. While New York has definitely failed, it isn’t true that Sweden has no quarantine.

    Now, there is no law allowing the government to do a shutdown, but plenty of stores are closed everywhere. Stockholm has 60% fewer commuters. The Stockholm roads are so empty in the middle of the day that you can ride a bike in the car lane. There are still cars, but nowhere near what there used to be.

    At a coffee shop that remains open, there were only seven visitors yesterday before me and my friend went there. They now close early, at six.

    Several of my relatives work in offices that are down to 40 percent work hours. Grocery stores have plastic screens in front of the cashiers, and tape on the floor to show the distance between people standing in line.

    Sports, clubs, etc are closed. College students have classes over the internet. My girlfriend works from home now, as do I. You see the effects everywhere.

    The schools are open, though – which I think is bad, as that’s where disease usually spreads. And the stores choose on their own whether to be closed or not. (But whether they will get customers is another matter.)

    The old don’t get visits from “home services,” but instead have food delivered to outside the door. And people opt out of what they can be without.

    You could say it’s a “mixed shutdown”. Which may be better than a full shutdown, and better than no shutdown. It’s people using their own judgment.

    And of course, Somalis and other usual suspects have more corona cases, just like “Turks” (Kurds) in Belgium rack up more corona cases, as they live with tons of children in each apartment and they don’t care about any rules. So … not all bad.

  120. What the Swedish experiment demonstrates…

    Is that the Swedish government doesn’t care if large numbers of indigenous Swedes die — because they can always import a few million more Arabs, Africans, Pakistanis, etc. to replace them. Muh “humanitarian superpower!”

    But you knew that…

    Though there have been rumors that the Swedish government had originally planned to make a more serious attempt at containing the Chinese plague — apparently the government was worried that some Somalians might catch it — but they gave up after they ran into some difficulties when a few of their more… physically imposing law enforcement officials attempted to impose “social distancing” rules on the vibrant elements in Malmo:

  121. Agent76 says:

    Americas workers and former middle class are rising up and are not going to take this sitting down any longer!

    Apr 18, 2020 Thousands of Americans Begin to Protest Lockdowns Across The Country

    Americans have taken part in mass protests after President Donald Trump urged supporters to ‘liberate’ states from governors’ stringent lockdowns.

  122. Hegar says:

    Very well written, Mike Whitney. Few people manage to write about this without making it partisan today. Or should I say, pro-Trump or anti-Trump.

    Of course, we know that if a Democrat had been president, and had been either for or against a shutdown, the Republicans would have criticized that too.

    This should not be partisan. The Swedish semi-shutdown is what Boris Johnson wanted to do in Britain, but he was attacked as a greedy right-winger who only thinks about the economy. (As do anyone with a job, and children to feed.) But Sweden, with a coalition government led by the Social Democrats, does the same thing.

    Of course, there was no choice, as Sweden has no law that allows a quarantine. Also, it wouldn’t have worked. Punishment for crimes is extremely low, vicious felons walk free after just a brief and comfortable prison stay, and the police don’t even investigate non-violent crimes like burglaries anymore since the worse crimes eat up all the resources. So a quarantine where you get fined for leaving the house would have been ignored by Arabs, Somalis, Kurds and Afghans. Giving everyone a very clear example of how these groups will openly ignore the law.

  123. Saggy says: • Website
    @Swedish Family

    It doesn’t look like exponential growth, and the numbers look small, until I compare them to my home state of Fl, where the numbers look large to me, but are smaller than those of Sweden. Fl has taken a completely half-assed approach to CV and its numbers are still significantly better than Sweden’s …

    Population: Fl 20,000,000, Sweden 10,000,000
    Deaths: Fl 700+ Sweden 1500+

    Takeaway – #1 – there are lots of factors to consider when comparing countries, and #2 – the overriding point AFAIAC (as far as I am concerned) is that South Korea’s response was the obviously correct one, and the western countries are trying to duck and dodge there way out of this mess and it isn’t working.

    • Replies: @Swedish Family
  124. I think Sweden is going to be fascinating to watch. For all the hoopla of flattening the curve, Sweden is doing it organically via exposure and subsequent natural antibodies. We on the other hand are doing it artificially by having everyone hiding. I get the need to limit the infection for our general lack of ICU capacity, but wonder without vaccination how do we get to a flat infection rate? Also every country seems to be expecting second infection, but I wonder will Sweden be once and done by their approach?

  125. @NoLock

    “ PCR testing per capita in Sweden is nowhere near the levels other countries have achieved.”

    Thanks for alerting us to the fact that you’re not to be taken seriously.

  126. Hegar says:
    @vot tak

    “Sweden’s flawed coronavirus battle plan hits the poor & elderly, resulting in worst death count among Nordic countries”

    You have to limit the comparison like that. Only comparing Sweden’s numbers to Norway and Denmark. How about Belgium, the Netherlands, France, Spain, Switzerland, Italy?

    It’s like people writing about how Sweden has more cases “per capita” than Norway. As if rocks and trees get corona. When the reality is that Norway has far more cases per million people.

    Now, don’t get me wrong. I support a quarantine. For the countries that need it. I support it for the U.S., because it will be a disaster if corona comes back every year, throughout the winter. It can put 25% of doctors and nurses in a hospital in quarantine, from contact with a patient, and that is unaffordable. Corona must be stopped.

    But for Sweden, the approach of a semi-shutdown was probably right.

    • Troll: vot tak
    • Replies: @vot tak
    , @Anonymous
  127. Dr Tengell, is right to make the observation that people are best to make their choices to better living than being force to do so. But let’s make no mistakes in comprehending the agenda. Getting people to do what they are are told. And they are more likely to do that if they are not aware that they are being told what to do. And that is the agenda here. The global power structure moving the worlds chess pieces all in line to do what they are told. And the US is long past falling in line.

    And there is no better way to drag one into the process than getting them to desire be part of the community. Nothing wrong with part of the global big tent, unless it requires the constant dismantling of self. That is why so much of the global Europe wants the US to continue to expand an maintain a global presence. It drains US identity by depleting resources. It explains why the the Bush Admin was importing Mexican Marines during Hurricane Katrina and the reports about Ukrainians shipping medial supplies into the US —

    The message is clear, it’s not US leadership the world wants, it’s US obedience.

  128. @Dino

    South Park nailed it.

    It’s hilarious.

    • Replies: @vot tak
  129. @obwandiyag

    I think we just got one. It becomes obvious that the debt is unpayable. We just added lord knows how much more to the National tab. Trump won’t repudiate it, but someone will. Maybe the 2024 candidate, if we are still holding elections then.

    Of course, explicit repudiation will not do much to relieve the burden. There is still crushing debt at the state level, as in Illinois, and newly bankrupt NYC and State. Not to mention pensions that cannot be paid at current levels, but could be paid in greatly deflated dollars. So, we will likely have a period of inflation that destroys the values of all debts, then the reset.

    Recall that the definition of inflation was changed in 2017 to “chained CPI.” Which will say that inflation is 2% when its really 6%. Keep that up a few years and all debts go to 0.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  130. @Lars Porsena

    No, Trump blinked. He folded like the 78′ Red Sox.

    A real leader would have already fired the likes of Anthony “chicken little” Fauci.

  131. Agent76 says:

    Apr 19, 2020 The Truth About Fauci Featuring Dr. Judy Mikovitz

    Dr. Mikovits began a 20-year collaboration with Frank Ruscetti, a pioneer in the field of human retro virology. She helped Dr Russetti isolate the HIV virus + link it to #AIDS in 1983.

  132. @anon

    Those like him are even more willing to give up your liberties.

  133. @anonymous jew

    I was comparing it to the European continent not elsewhere. But also humidity is a factor, not just temperature. Sweden had a jump in deaths yesterday of 65.7%. So it just premature to talk brag about who is doing things right. We don’t know whether Sweden’s actions will prove to be better than any other government’s at this point.

    Now to address your rights and the governments rights.

    It is one thing to engage in risky behavior where you only put yourself at risk. It is quite another to engage in behavior that risks the lives of other people.

    We don’t allow drunken motorists to go speeding down the highway, weaving all over the place.

    With this virus when you go out in public, you risk the lives of others. It is as simple as that. How much? We just don’t know. But the government has the right to stop members of the public from engaging in this behavior that is well understood to hurt others.

    What I support is treating this lockdown like a Constitutional taking under the 5th Amendment. The government is required to justly compensate all people who have been harmed as result of the government’s taking of their property rights (ie, the property right to make a wage or a profit). And things like a $1200 stimulus check, and/or a $600 unemployment check are not just compensation for most people.

    If you happened to have been one of many people who were in between jobs, like my daughter, who just moved to a different state and who had made the decision to quit one job on her own, she doesn’t even get unemployment. My daughter could have gotten another job since she moved to a place with 2% unemployment. Obviously someone who had a job in a place with a high cost of living is not compensated as justly as someone who had a job in a place that has a low cost of living. And some people make a lot more than others.

    These “one shoe fits all” remedy does not work. The takings clause of the Constitution doesn’t work that way. It treats every loss individually.

    The government has a right to take your property for the “good of society” (eminent domain) but only if it justly compensates you for your loss. The government programs are nowhere near just compensation for the losses suffered by most people and as a result do not compensate people in a manner the Constitution requires. The government should have done far more to compensate people in a way that is much more in line with its Constitutional obligations. That is my beef.

    Your analysis is just wrong from a legal point of view.

    • Replies: @Anon
  134. geokat62 says:
    @NoLock

    Plus, even the official case tally still shows exponential growth.

    Exponential?

    Sweden Covid-19 April 19

    • Replies: @geokat62
  135. botazefa says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    At this point, anyone comparing covid 19 to flu is automatically a sub human that needs to be culled. You are fucking dangerous to the rest of us. You fuckers are making me into a eugenics believer. Damn.

    Can you please put a mask on your potty mouth? You are infecting all us civilized skeptics and believers.

    • LOL: Digital Samizdat
  136. @fatmanscoop

    But that is the thing about a virus. It doesn’t treat populations the same. You never know who is going to draw the short straw and who is not. It is very much like war in that regard. Obviously given the UK’s number of deaths, some places have really been hit hard.

    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
  137. @Robert Dolan

    Are you retarded? How many deaths were recorded in Sweden last year. Go buy a 5 pound bag of rice and take 1200 out of the bag and see what’s left. You can feed your family for a week.

  138. geokat62 says:
    @geokat62

    I posted Daily Deaths. Daily Cases is even less exponential:

    Sweden Covid-19 (Daily Cases)

  139. @Jaakko Raipala

    The vast majority of dead in Sweden are migrants, especially Somalians, who don’t follow the advice and instead still gather in mosques and such. They also have high levels of obesity and poor health in general compared to ethnic Swedes.

    Well then….. I support Swedish corona policy.

    • LOL: Ian Smith
  140. Black people kill 400 white people in a year. White supremacists: “It’s a genocide!”
    Virus kills 20,000 white people in a month: White supremacists: “There’s no problem!”

    lol, you people are so fucking stupid.

  141. L.K says:
    @Brás Cubas

    the president has no say in the matter of policy; he is our very own Queen of England

    BS

    Bolsonaro and his gang of lunatics – his sons, several of his moronic ministers, close advisers – certainly constitute the worst government Brazil has ever had.

    This corrupt and criminal know-nothing(Bolsonaro), not fit/capable of running even the tiniest of small business, let alone a gigantic, complex and hugely unequal country, is only tolerated by the corrupt and traitorous Brazilian oligarchy because, and this is KEY, BoZonaro has his BANKSTER Minister of the Economy, Paulo Guedes, conducting the crudest forms of Neoliberal policies and raping the country, which evidently serves Brazilian oligarchs and their interests very well.
    And just to be clear, the Brazilian economy under Guedes, before the Coronavirus, was doing extremely poorly already.

    Certainly the oligarchs, for the most part, preferred a more refined, and certainly much more capable individual to deepen Neoliberal policies in Brazil – since the Worker’s Party never really rejected it – than Bozo the clown, someone like Geraldo Alckmin… but since Alckmin did poorly in the election run, Bozo/Guedes would have to do, or so they thought. Some are having second thoughts now.

    Funny how Bolsonaro, a corrupt, low “clergy” politician for nearly 30 years, always defended statism, even saying that former president Fernando Henrique should have been shot for his indeed disastrous Neoliberal policies, only to quickly jettison his entire past in order to be able to become the frontman for the financial clique who runs the country.

    • Agree: Brás Cubas
    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
  142. geokat62 says:

    Well, the results of a serology study are in and they say …. drum roll, please… Covid-19 has a fatality rate that’s the equivalent of the seasonal flu.

    Dr. John Ioannidis Announces Results of COVID-19 Serology Study

    Description:

    Dr. John Ioannidis announces the results of his serology study in Santa Clara, California.

    Full Perspectives on the Pandemic interview coming soon!

    “Our Santa Clara seroprevalence study is now out. It shows 50-85 times underestimated number of infections, therefore 50-85 times overestimated infection rate fatality. True infection rate fatality is in the ballpark of seasonal influenza.”

    To read the study, head here: https:// http://www.medrxiv.org/content/1 0.11.

    Can someone remind us what the final price tag will be for shutting down the economy? Oopsy!

    • Replies: @Art
    , @davidgmillsatty
    , @Anon
    , @L.K
  143. My comments should not be construed to mean I am against opening the economy, but it’s pretty clear that whatever failing the system had prior will remain.

  144. @MarkinLA

    I’ve read that Iceland began a screening program on January 31st. Did it share the same advantage as Taiwan or was the Icelandic government just acting as one should expect its elected body to act on behalf of its citizens?

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  145. MarkinLA says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    So when some mentally ill person, drug dealer or addict with a gun shoots somebody trying to arrest them how far up the martial law ladder do you want to go?

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  146. anon[161] • Disclaimer says:
    @Biff

    Is this sarcasm???? (Hard to tell in these parts.)

  147. MarkinLA says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    How do you stop it from spreading WITHIN a family? Are you suggesting everybody move into their own cabin with a shotgun shooting anybody that comes close until this is over?

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  148. L.K says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    What fucking liberties are you even talking about?

    This is an important point that Diana Johnstone addresses in an excellent article;
    https://consortiumnews.com/2020/04/10/covid-19-coronavirus-and-civilization/

    …Mammon is wrecking the economy so a few oligarchs will own everything. Or else Mammon created the hoax Coronavirus 19 in order to lock us all up and deprive us of what little is left of our freedom. Or finally Mammon is using a virus in order to have a pretext to vaccinate us all with secret substances and turn us all into zombies.

    Is this credible? In one sense, it is. We know that Mammon is unscrupulous, morally capable of all crimes. But things do happen that Mammon did not plan, such as earthquakes, floods and plagues. Dislike of our ruling class combined with dislike of being locked up leads to the equation: They are simply using this (fake) crisis in order to lock us up!

    But what for? To whom is there any advantage in locking down the population? For the pleasure of telling themselves, “Aha, we’ve got them where we want them, all stuck at home!” Is this intended to suppress popular revolt? What popular revolt? Why repress people who aren’t doing anything that needs to be repressed?

    What is the use of locking up a population – and I think especially of the United States – that is disunited, disorganized, profoundly confused by generations of ideological indoctrination telling them that their country is “the best” in every way, and thus unable to formulate coherent demands on a system that exploits them ruthlessly? Do you need to lock up your faithful Labrador so he won’t bite you?

    If anything, the trauma of this situation might actually awaken a somnolent population to the vital need for basic transformation of society. The notion that this lockdown threatens to be permanent is totally unrealistic, against all evidence from previous lockdowns. On the contrary, prolonged confinement is most likely to lead to explosions.

    Diana Johnstone really nails it!

  149. Art says:
    @israel shamir

    Please — What is being done in Sweden, both publicly and privately for the vulnerable – the old and sick?

    • Replies: @Swedish Family
  150. MarkinLA says:
    @ken19

    ECG or EKG is electrocardiogram and refers to the heart. A flatline there indicated the heart is no longer beating. EEG is electroencephalogram and measures the brain waves and is used to determine if somebody is brain dead.

  151. Art says:
    @geokat62

    “Our Santa Clara seroprevalence study is now out. It shows 50-85 times underestimated number of infections, therefore 50-85 times overestimated infection rate fatality. True infection rate fatality is in the ballpark of seasonal influenza.”

    Even with flue shots – 60,000 die of influenza in the US every year.

    How many will die in the US of CV, without vaccine shots?

    • Replies: @geokat62
  152. @geokat62

    Not so fast.

    There is a new study out of Cambridge that says there are three strains. A, B and C. What if the strains have different infection and death rates? What the study found is that strains A and C dominate Europe and the USA and the B strain dominates in Asia.

    Death rates and infection rates in Asia have been far less than Europe and the USA.

    It seems very likely that the East Coast got their infections from European spread. It also seems likely that the West Coast got their infections from Asia.

    In that case, Ioannidis’s predictions would be based on the less virulent strain which is B and not on the more virulent strains of A and C.

    https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020/04/07/2004999117

    • Replies: @geokat62
  153. Anon[230] • Disclaimer says:
    @davidgmillsatty

    With this virus when you go out in public, you risk the lives of others. It is as simple as that. How much? We just don’t know. But the government has the right to stop members of the public from engaging in this behavior that is well understood to hurt others.

    What behavior? Going out in public? Where is government granted this authority in the constitution?

  154. @Saggy

    It doesn’t look like exponential growth, and the numbers look small, until I compare them to my home state of Fl, where the numbers look large to me, but are smaller than those of Sweden. Fl has taken a completely half-assed approach to CV and its numbers are still significantly better than Sweden’s …

    Population: Fl 20,000,000, Sweden 10,000,000
    Deaths: Fl 700+ Sweden 1500+

    Those are indeed very low figures for Florida, but I would caution against comparing them to data from other countries (perhaps even data from other US states) until this thing is over. What matters now, if you ask me, is only how Florida’s figures relate to the total number of past and present virus carriers in Florida, what the trend is, and where on the trend curve Florida lies.

  155. Pft says:

    Yeah stopping life to save life seems not a smart thing. Especially if you allow those to resume life only to live in a world without a job or freedom so as to save their life from a future threat. COVID-19 was named as such because COVID-20 is in the pipeline. This will be an annual thing.

    Anyways, thanks for the breath of fresh air Mike. I guess some have immunity to the “dumb” virus even without a vaccine

  156. TaiChi says:

    Moon of Alabama criticized this post rather severely today. I posted a disagreement in defense of Mr. Whitney, and Moon blocked my post. Moon of Alabama no longer allows posts if they disagree with what he is written, which appears somewhat hypocritical. At any rate and in Mr. Whitney’s defense, I offer the post Moon of Alabama struck as somehow inappropriate:

    ‘”Whitney’s conclusion that we should all do like Sweden is thus not justified.”

    Whitney’s conclusion:

    “The Swedish plan will continue to be criticized by public health experts who think that their draconian recommendations should be fully-implemented without the slightest deviation, but it could turn out that the Swedish model is not only vastly superior to the other courses of action but, ultimately, the only real option for countries that want to save lives but avoid a permanently-hobbled and severely-depressed economy.”

    It could. Or it might not.’

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  157. Anon[230] • Disclaimer says:
    @geokat62

    Great post. Corrected the link in the study for you. Click on title below to view.

    COVID-19 Antibody Seroprevalence in Santa Clara County, California

    • Thanks: geokat62
  158. geokat62 says:
    @davidgmillsatty

    Not so fast.

    I’m not going anywhere, lol!

    Look, there are only two explanations for the very low number of Covid-19 deaths relative to the initial projections of 2.2 million deaths for the US. Some wish to attribute the downward revision in the models from 2.2 million to 60k to the impact of social distancing. It should be noted that a 50% social distancing assumption was initially built into the estimate of 2.2 million deaths, while a 75% social distancing assumption was built into the revised 60k estimate. I’m skeptical that this revision to the social distancing assumption explains the massive downward revision in projected deaths. More plausible is that the Covid-19 IFR is ~0.1% – i.e., in the same ballpark as the seasonal flu.

    Further, we have the examples of those countries that didn’t shutdown their societies to further bolster the case that increasing the social distancing assumption in the models from 50% to 75% wasn’t the deciding factor.

    • Replies: @davidgmillsatty
  159. geokat62 says:
    @Art

    How many will die in the US of CV, without vaccine shots?

    Latest projections are around 60k.

    • Replies: @Art
  160. L.K says:
    @geokat62

    You dishonestly push this study as if it is the last word on the subject, when in reality it is nothing of the sort.

    The following is Ron Unz’s take on it:

    It’s been the subject of a very lengthy 25,000 word comment thread over the last couple of days in which I’ve been heavily involved:

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/infection-rate-in-silicon-valley-was-under-5-in-early-april/

    My initial reaction was fairly skeptical:

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/infection-rate-in-silicon-valley-was-under-5-in-early-april/#comment-3844473

    But after I read some of the very detailed critiques by knowledgeable individuals who reviewed the actual preprint, I concluded that the paper was just total garbage that no one should take seriously.

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/infection-rate-in-silicon-valley-was-under-5-in-early-april/#comment-3845841

    The problem with people who desperately want to believe something is that they grab on to any bit of evidence, without carefully assessing its quality.

    Incidentally, there’s a long piece in this morning’s NYT Sunday Magazine by an ER doctor in NYC:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/magazine/coronavirus-er-doctor-diary-new-york-city.html

    Is she a liar? Is everyone mentioned a “crisis actor”? It really doesn’t sound like “the Flu” to me…

    Clearly it will take a while for experts to have sufficient quality data to reach a more clear picture about this virus lethality.

    Let’s hope this study is not in the same BS league as that one from that Ryan Mackey quack you keep peddling whenever 9-11 comes up…

  161. MarkinLA says:
    @Three of Swords

    Well according to this Taiwan started things much earlier than January 31.

    .https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-taiwan-case-study-rapid-response-containment-2020-3?op=1

    How many people live in Iceland? How many tourists come to Iceland in the winter? Comparing Iceland to the US is ridiculous since there was no ability to screen the large numbers of people traveling to the US let alone every resident suspected of having a disease.

    • Replies: @Three of Swords
    , @Pft
  162. Art says:
    @geokat62

    How many will die in the US of CV, without vaccine shots?

    Latest projections are around 60k.

    Hmm — we are already at 41,000?

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    , @geokat62
    , @geokat62
  163. @davidgmillsatty

    His point was that only Italy locked down after its healthcare system was overwhelmed.myou said they all did. I see you didn’t answer that point.

    Only Italy and Spain have blown out the healthcare systems so far. Everyone else is under the limit. Even NYC.

    • Replies: @davidgmillsatty
  164. mcohen says:

    No body is the new anti body

  165. geokat62 says:
    @L.K

    You dishonestly push this study…

    You keep alleging that I’m being dishonest, when I may simply be wrong. Was Ron being dishonest when he estimated that over a million Americans would perish b/c of Covid-19? If he isn’t, then neither am I.

    Clearly it will take a while for experts to have sufficient quality data to reach a more clear picture about this virus lethality.

    What’s your explanation for the models initially predicting 2.2 million deaths later to be revised to 60k? We don’t need data to understand that they were fundamentally flawed from the getgo.

    Let’s hope this study is not in the same BS league as that one from that Ryan Mackey quack you keep peddling whenever 9-11 comes up…

    Yeah, because David Ray Griffin was head and shoulders above Ryan Mackey when it came to an understanding of structural engineering, lol!

  166. @MarkinLA

    All according to the laws.

    I am a firm believer of capital punishment for anyone shooting at a policeman or any human. For the mentally ill, whomever sold the gun gets the punishment.

    If the retards can’t even stay home for 6 weeks to save themselves, they deserve to die.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  167. @MarkinLA

    This is where testing and hospitalization comes in. This is where we, USA lags behind China by several million miles. We don’t do contact tracing, don’t test enough people, we also forced most to go home, infecting their family members. When we should be keeping them in hospitals.

  168. @Art

    Please — What is being done in Sweden, both publicly and privately for the vulnerable – the old and sick?

    People at risk — and this group includes everyone over 70 — are told to avoid contact with others (kids, grandkids, neighbors, etc.) so far as possible, hospitals are closed for visitors, and many grocery stores have designated time slots for the elderly. Most people also keep their distance when there are elders around.

    • Thanks: Art
  169. @anon

    Why do retards like you think martial law will be permanent?

    Or that 6 weeks of quarantine to fight this virus will turn USA into a totalitarian society?

    Like what in the fucking hell made you jump off of the logic board into crazy sharks?

    • Replies: @Anon
  170. @geokat62

    The problem is that it is not at all like the flu in certain places. I just heard on the news two minutes ago that the number of deaths in some place in Massachusetts is more than four or five times the number of deaths in that normally happen from flu.

    And of course there are many places that are not impacted much. And it is a crap shoot for every one. You don’t know if it is coming to your neighborhood or not.

    It is very much like war. How do you model war losses? You can’t. Are you going to have a million casualties or 50,000? All predictive models are going to suck. So it doesn’t impress me that the models are proven to be wrong. It is dumb to expect them to being close to right.

    See my post at 136 for how I think this should have been handled by the government.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  171. MarkinLA says:
    @Art

    Hmm — we are already at 41,000?

    As long as we count everybody who dies with a cough or ever tested positive and dies.

    • Agree: Beefcake the Mighty
    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  172. MarkinLA says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    For the mentally ill, whomever sold the gun gets the punishment.

    Plenty of mentally ill people can and do buy guns. You have to be adjudicated as mentally ill to be on the list.

    If the retards can’t even stay home for 6 weeks to save themselves, they deserve to die.

    Now you are going off the deep end. I doubt dope-sick people are worried about dying from the coronavirus.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  173. geokat62 says:
    @Art

    Hmm — we are already at 41,000?

    What do you predict the final number will be? Are you backing Ron’s million-plus estimate?

  174. NTG says:

    this “epedemic” was plain a excuse and used to reset the System. What we see here is a plain, and until now, unbloody as you can get it Capitalistic System reset. Hopefully it will stay that way.

  175. MarkinLA says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    Exactly where was all this testing supposed to come from when China destroyed their samples of the virus and we were flying blind until we had a sufficient number of cases? Are you saying we should have had a total lockdown until there was sufficient testing available? Are you saying everybody with a cough should have been removed from their families, and housed where?

    Trump cannot declare martial law without consent of the Congress, if even then.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  176. Poco says:
    @Anon

    He’s White dumbass. There’s no reason why he shouldn’t use a White country as his example. If you want to play pc we are the world games in your head go ahead.

  177. BAP says:

    Now that the economy crashed, the government has passed all sorts of stupid laws and funded many questionable causes, everybody acquired even more debt (even the government) and everything went bankrupt and is available to be bought for cheap by whoever that still has money, I agree that the Event 201 main mission is done. You can reopen your economy ready to get taken over by the usual suspects and their puppets.

  178. L.K says:

    https://sputniknews.com/europe/202004151078958926-health-authorities-have-failed-22-researchers-castigate-swedish-covid-19-strategy/
    ‘Health Authorities Have Failed’: 22 Researchers Castigate Swedish COVID-19 Strategy

    Sweden’s aberrant approach to handling the coronavirus epidemic, with minimal restrictions in place and public life running almost in a businesses-as-usual mode, has been an increasing cause of concern, as the infection curve becomes steeper.

    Sweden has shown how not to tackle coronavirus, as it fights now to save face
    MARK BROLIN
    Follow 16 APRIL 2020
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/04/16/sweden-has-shown-not-tackle-coronavirus-fights-now-save-face/?li_source=LI&li_medium=liftigniter-rhr

    • Replies: @glib
  179. @TaiChi

    B is indeed an appalling hypocrite, I used to like MoA but I no longer bother with it. The alt-left has proved to be completely useless, which probably shouldn’t come as a surprise, but the alt-right is one big limited hangout.

    • Replies: @TaiChi
  180. @MarkinLA

    Those excuses don’t fly. How did Korea do it then? The country we praised so much cause we didn’t want to praise China because omfg, a supposed totalitarian country we shit on is doing right by it’s citizens.

    No blindness. Just incompetence, stupidity, and retardeness like some of the anons here.

    Please, I am saying anyone with a high fever needs to be tested. Those positive hospitalized. Contacts traced n tested.

    The fact that a medical quarantine for a pandemic is politics kills me a little on the inside.

  181. @davidgmillsatty

    Wow, just two minutes ago? You’re clearly well-informed!

  182. The country with the best strategy of all is Hungary. Rather than aggressively crack down on the productive parts of the economy, or engage in mass crackdowns on the general population, the Hungarians have cracked down on the travelers who are spreading the disease.

    Many western countries told returning travelers and foreign immigrants to “self isolate” rather than put them into enforced quarantine, which is why the virus has been able to spread so quickly.

    In the long run this fiasco is likely to be a win for nationalists, but the economic price for many countries is going to be heavy.

    The countries which are going to suffer the most are those with a heavy focus on tourism and hospitality, which means countries like Spain, Greece, New Zealand and Thailand.

    Industrial countries like Germany, Sweden, China and South Korea won’t be too badly affected.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  183. @MarkinLA

    The fact that the mentally ill has easy access to guns is the problem. But a few dead mentals vs 10s of thousands of covid 19 deaths? The choice is easy.

    A few dead addicts is inconsequential. For the economy right? When did a few addicts matter when you are willing to take a gamble with 10s of thousands?

  184. glib says:
    @L.K

    too bad the euromomo mortality data do not bear that out. Sweden is better than France, Belgium and Spain. It is better than Holland (partial lockdown). See Also a discussions of condition on the ground here, in particular the unfavorable nursing home size in Sweden compared to nearby countries in the video below (if you need to calculate what a z-score unit is, let me know)

    http://www.euromomo.eu/outputs/zscore_country_total.html

    These country to country comparisons work up to a point. How does Northern Italy have more than the excess mortality in Italy, and the rest of the country (60% of the population) have lower than normal mortality? the lockdown is the same.

    • Thanks: Weston Waroda
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  185. Crazy Horse says: • Website
    @Rubaiyat

    The economy isn’t just an “Anglo” thang. You have to have some kind of economy whether it’s wampum, scrip, barter, gold or dollars. Communist or Capitalist. That is unless you’re from some other Galaxy.

  186. @alt right moderate

    Exports will take a long time to recover. So, the country that will get out of this unscathed doesn’t exist. China has the production capacity but the consumer market is not big enough for its own production. The opposite is true of USA, big market with not enough production. Germany has the same problem as China, even bigger than China even, as export is an even bigger portion of 5he economy than China.

  187. @MarkinLA

    Thanks for the link. Here is one for you:

    https://www.businessinsider.com/iceland-coronavirus-pandemic-approach-could-help-other-countries-2020-4

    According to both articles, both Iceland and Taiwan have spent years preparing for an outbreak such as this one. Whether their programs would work effectively in other countries cannot been said, but they are working for Iceland and Taiwan at the moment, and should be considered for immediate and future reference.

  188. @Anonymous

    Agree wholeheartedly, but, unfortunately, there’s no profit in it for those for whom it’s “just business.”

  189. @Astuteobservor II

    Get a grip on yourself. You are hysterical. The virus has been spreading in America since August 2019. Sooner or later everyone will have been infected, lockdown or no lockdown. Those who have hidden liabilities will die, a little sooner than otherwise, but so will everyone, sooner or later. Until March the deaths were covered up under other rubrics. Now, instead of being covered up they are exaggerated. The real question is what is a government, really, that creates such things on purpose? And that government is your government. What are you going to do about it?

  190. @L.K

    I agree with your comment, but I don’t think it has anything to do with the quote you selected. That Bolsonaro is powerless in this matter of the pandemic has been ruled by the Brazilian Supreme Court. That’s why I called him ‘Queen of England’. This is not bullshit, it’s a fact.

    And as for keeping the economy open, he is right. Mike Whitney is not a neoliberal and defends that too.

  191. Anon[388] • Disclaimer says:

    So all the fear mongering, flat-curvers are 100% convinced that social distancing is the reason that we have been spared 2.2 million deaths.

    OK, fine, let’s explore that. California was he first state to lock down on March 19th. Eastern states like New York, New Jersey, Connecticut and a few others followed within 3 to 4 days and by April 1, 37 states (plus Washington DC) had some form of social distancing/stay at home orders. There were many states that did not have official orders until the first week of April and some never had any.

    With that in mind, on March 31, The White House announced that the new models suggest that there would be 100,000 to 240,000 deaths. The reason stated was that social distancing was flattening the curve and what the American people were doing was working. On that same day, March 31, the distancing orders of more than 30 states was less than 1 week old and at least 10 states still had zero orders. This is what they claim changed the projections from 2.2 million to 100,000 to 240,000.

    But wait, there’s more. If we assume a mortality rate of 1%, which I do not agree with, but lets just say it’s 10 times deadlier than the flu for sh!ts and grins. For social distancing to change the projected death toll from 2.2 million to 100,000, fewer people need to be infected. Right? People stay away from each other, less transmission. Got it! But how many fewer infections do we need to change it from 2.2 million to 100,000? Well, if the mortality rate is 1% and 2.2 million people were going to die, that would mean we were on pace for 220,000,000 infections before social distancing, roughly 10 times the amount of infections in the entire world and 2/3 of all men, women and children in the US. To get to 100,000 deaths we would need to infect 210,000,000 fewer people. Let me say that again. We are to believe that we were on pace to infect 220 million people, but after a week of panic buying at the grocery stores, standing in lines, not wearing masks, congregating in parks and celebrating Spring break, the experts were able to determine that the efforts so far, if kept up, would reduce infections by 210 million and save 2.1 million lives, all with less than 1 week of more than 30 state’s mitigation plan being in effect and without any orders from 10 other states who either started after the model change or not at all.

    Pretty Amazing!

    • Agree: Beefcake the Mighty
  192. @Anon

    Labeling Mike Whitney anti other than white skinned is interesting. The Brazil model could have been commented on. Why the slander?

  193. @ploni almoni

    Check this anon out. We will all die sooner or later. So don’t worry about it. Just die.

    Why do we need hospitals? You will die eventually, with covid 19, you will die sooner, that is all.

    No big deal. You will just die sooner.

    No big deal, you will just die sooner.

    I am now a die hard believer of eugenics after this anon.

  194. Coronavirus is a zionist psyop on the world to get a zionist NWO!

  195. vot tak says:
    @Hegar

    Typical guardianista comment.

  196. @L.K

    Re:
    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/magazine/coronavirus-er-doctor-diary-new-york-city.html

    Sorry, Ron or whoever, but a “diary” is what’s known as anecdotal evidence. And this particular bit of anecdotal evidence reads like a daytime TV soap opera script. Sheeeesh!

  197. It is hilarious how so many people who, a month ago, were properly skeptical of official accounts of the Holocaust, 9-11, etc., are now believing every piece of rubbish put out by both the US and Chinese governments, including their media mouthpieces. I’m reminded of that passage from 1984 when the Party apparatchik switches from the war against Eurasia to the war against East Asia without missing a beat. You seriously can’t make this shit up.

    • Agree: Twodees Partain
    • Replies: @The Grim Joker
  198. vot tak says:
    @Saggy

    Not stupid, corrupt and criminal to the core.

  199. @Astuteobservor II

    If only all the retarded deniers get karma like this.

    Only the credulous believe what they read in The NY Times and NBC news.

    First of all, it is unclear if Bishop Gerald O. Glenn died from corona virus or WITH coronavirus.. People not suffering from CDR (Corona virus Derangement Syndrome) know the difference. It would have been very easy for media with resources like NBC and The NY Times to get a copy of the death certificate. However, as usual, NBC news and The NY Times chose to rely on rumours instead getting hard data which could destroy their narratives. Note that Bishop Gerald O. Glenn had severe diverticulitis which resulted in frequent fevers and sinus infections which makes Covid-19 as the cause of death even more suspect.

    Second, contrary to the liars at The NY Times, Bishop Gerald O. Glenn DID practice social distancing. Quote from his daughter:

    When he decided to have services, he was very clear in posting signs and having hand sanitizer, and wearing gloves and not congregating with people after service, during service, People were asked to sit six feet apart. Family members sat together. That’s it. After service, there was no talking and hanging around. Everyone left.

    Finally, although some of the bishop’s family members are apparently infected with Covid-19, I can find no information regarding any illness they may have.

    • Replies: @Hail
    , @Astuteobservor II
  200. @Astuteobservor II

    This is where testing and hospitalization comes in. This is where we, USA lags behind China by several million miles. We don’t do contact tracing, don’t test enough people, we also forced most to go home, infecting their family members. When we should be keeping them in hospitals.

    Yes. That’s why we hospitalize all flu patients and don’t send them at home. After all, it is much easier to get infections at home than when you are in the hospital.

    • Agree: Vojkan
    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  201. Why do we always allow the left to sacrifice reality, people, economy, and liberty on the altar of their perfect fantasies, in this case the delusion of absolutely no more coronavirus infections and deaths?

    We allow it because the left always frames their arguments in terms of emotional moral values. We discard our own traditional Christian morality, and genuflect to the left. We always end up ceding them the moral high ground, from which they accrue ever more power.

    And so it goes….

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  202. Hail says: • Website
    @RationalRabbit

    Bishop Gerald O. Glenn had severe diverticulitis which resulted in frequent fevers and sinus infections which makes Covid-19 as the cause of death even more suspect.

    Bishop Gerald Glenn was born in 1953. Granted that is not really ‘old old’ by today’s standard, but if this is the best the pro-Panic side has, it’s kind of tacit admission that the virus is NOT randomly killing healthy people in their prime.

    With the mountains of data we now have, it’s safe to say “random deaths of healthy prime-age people” due to the Corona Apocalypse Virus never happens (statistically speaking).

    severe diverticulitis

    A 2014 paper gives the survival rates for patients hospitalized with various degrees of diverticulitis:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4197364/

    It can be a serious condition, and there are certain death rates by the 100-day, 5-year, and 10-year intervals after a hospitalization with this condition.

    All deaths are individual tragedies, but if there are 20,000 people with this condition in the Richmond area and a handful die in 2020, within the statistically expected number, that is not news nor cause for alarm. It is reckless and irresponsible to “wave bodies” at people to scare them.

  203. @Astuteobservor II

    You think nobody catches infections in a hospital?
    “What a maroon.” B. Bunny

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  204. @RationalRabbit

    Let’s strip down the article to the bare minimum.

    He held service with covid 19 around. He got the virus and died from it despite following all precautions during his service. Now his family members all have it.

    And your argument? He was already dying, the little nudge, push that ended his life is not at fault.

    Genius, truly only a genius can perform such mental gymnastics.

  205. @RationalRabbit

    Genius, a true genius we have here. Even fucking retarded trump is finally taking this seriously. And then we have this genius here.

    Please don’t go to the hospital for anything, your genius can cure any n all illness.

    👍

    • Replies: @RationalRabbit
  206. @Monotonous Languor

    Yea, I can’t believe it either. How dare I think a person with an extremely infectious virus should be taken to a hospital and not infect his entire family.

    How dare I!!! Outrageous!!!

  207. What the Swedish experiment demonstrates, is that there’s a way to navigate these unprecedented public health challenges without recklessly imposing police state policies and without doing irreparable harm to the economy.

    Actually, lockdowns are the experiment, Sweden’s approach is grounded in science and guided by epidemiologists with impressive credentials, but there are no good data on whether or not lockdowns actually do any good. Once you do a lockdown, you have to climb back out of it carefully step by step. In the end, you will end up losing about as many people if it had been done Sweden’s way. Lockdowns will make little difference in terms of coronavirus deaths, but they will make a big difference in the economy.

    Because lockdowns themselves cause deaths. We flattened the curve in order to avoid overwhelming the healthcare system, but hospitals today stand empty all over the country. Cancers will not be diagnosed because elective colonoscopies and mammograms are not being done. ER docs have commented on the recent dearth of heart attacks and appendicitis cases, people are too frightened to go to the hospital and are waiting too late to get care. Add to that the cost to society of the effects of the lockdown like depression, domestic violence, suicide. We have focused on a few deaths from the coronavirus, perhaps as many as in a severe flu season or perhaps a bit more, to the exclusion of deaths caused by the efforts at containing the virus. Economic devastation will itself bring death.

    The 2017-2018 influenza season killed over 80,000 people in the US. If we had tracked the progress of the flu that year with maps and projections, detailing the hot spots and new outbreaks, we could have easily frightened the population into accepting a lockdown two years ago for the flu. Instead we ignored it and let it pass. This time, we made the coronavirus pandemic a media event complete with colored maps, colored curves and breathless announcers injecting fear and panic in the population, complete with illustrations of tragic pandemic deaths in outlier individuals. A father and his 20 year old son. We have been manipulated. We have been herded by fear and panic.

    • Agree: Stan d Mute
  208. Vojkan says:
    @The Alarmist

    If the new Babylon disappeared altogether, the world should celebrate.

  209. NoLock says:

    To all morons who post misleading graphs on the situation in Sweden: Go to c19.se, click on the logarithmic option, both the (official!) case count and the (official!) death count are clearly exponential. The number of hospitalized cases is also steadily rising, though not clearly exponential. Crucially, they are keeping the number of ICU patients at a steady level – so far. Probably that’s because of a mix of (a) gaining experience with regard to treating Covid-19 and (b) just triaging patients to let them die without transferring them to the ICU. That does not include elderly people who are left to die in their care homes without ever making it to the hospital in the first place.

    As for PCR testing, obviously there are some Tegnell fanboys in this forum who can read Swedish. Here is the official guideline on when to test: “I den uppdaterade nationella rekommendationen för provtagning prioriteras personer med behov av inneliggande sjukhusvård och omsorg som insjuknat akut med feber eller luftvägssymtom utan annan känd orsak. Dessutom rekommenderas, utifrån regionala och lokala resursbehov, provtagning av personal inom sjukvård och omsorg samt institutionsboende som insjuknat akut med feber eller luftvägssymtom.” Months into the crisis and with countries like South Korea and Germany doing mass testing, Sweden still does not do it on any broad basis although there are regional differences. Sweden tests cases that may require hospitalization, health and care workers, and care home inhabitants, that’s largely it.

    It’s clear and has not been disputed in this forum that Sweden’s way of handling the crisis is purely political, day-to-day, and chaotic. What do you expect of a country whose prime minister is a communist, uneducated trade union apparatchik who has hardly ever done an honest day of work in his life? Sweden cannot impose any kind of lock-down because the situation in the suburbs does not permit it. Sweden is not a European country; Sweden is some kind of Lebanon 2.0. So Sweden acts as a freeloader. It relies on part of the population, mainly ordinary middle-class white, acting responsibly in self-isolating to let another part of the population, mainly bobo-liberal or colored, go about business as usual.

    Officially tallied deaths per 1m pop according to Worldometer:

    Sweden: 152
    Denmark: 61
    Germany: 55
    Norway: 30
    Finland: 17

  210. Vojkan says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    Really?

    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=healthcare+infections+mortality&t=fpas&ia=web

    To be compared with real COVID-19 mortality, not the one cooked up by the MSM, politicians and lobbyists.

    • Agree: Stan d Mute
  211. @Galearis

    But Sweden is suffering badly

    1,540 in a nation of 10 million is hardly “suffering badly”.

  212. @Vojkan

    How many people will die who could have been cured of other diseases and live if they hadn’t been denied treatment due to giving absolute priority to COVID-19?

    Isn’t that the argument FOR the lock down? The point is to flatten the curve to keep hospitals from overflowing with COVID-19 victims so that there are still resources for other treatments. The Swedish approach is creating more Wuhanflu sufferers and making it impossible for normal people to use the hospital safely.

    • Replies: @Weston Waroda
  213. @Rubaiyat

    “The economy IS our life. ”

    Anglos are sick in the head.

    Hey fucktard, there’s this thing we self-sufficient types like to do called “earning” and “providing”. You see, there are really people who grow and produce all the garbage you eat, clothing you wear, housing you inhabit, information superhighway you troll, etc.

    It’s easy to distinguish the makers from the eaters right now. The eaters have zero clue how life is supported. They’ve never seen the word “livelihood”.

  214. @Robert Dolan

    MILLIONS out of work means despair, alcohol, substance abuse, depression, violence, suicide, looting, rioting, starvation.

    And this prospect is infinitely more terrifying than the threat of 20% of octogenarians croaking six months early or the risk that morbidly obese Bantu tribesmen will die from a virus instead of lead poisoning.

    But the eaters will never understand. They’ve been comfortably coddled and provided for since birth.

    What’s happening is criminal. We’re not “saving lives” but merely delaying death until the next influenza or coronavirus comes around. And we’re delivering this extension of a few months at the cost of tens of millions of dollars each. Like every other debt the Boomers and Silents left behind, these Corona PANdemIC debts will hobble GenX, millennials, zoomers, and their progeny for decades at best.

    The silver lining is that I’m more convinced than ever that Boomers will live to see their comeuppance. When the Boomers line of credit is revoked, then things will get interesting.

    • Replies: @Robert Dolan
    , @Rubaiyat
  215. ” mainstream organizations like the WHO and the European Commission.”

    And that’s your problem right there: Totalitarian globalist parasites are “mainstream”.

  216. Anon[230] • Disclaimer says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    Why do retards like you think martial law will be permanent?

    Or that 6 weeks of quarantine to fight this virus will turn USA into a totalitarian society?

    Let’s see. Both Google and Apple putting contact APIs In their operating systems so government and any app developer can more easily see who you have been talking with or even brushing next to. Way past time to ditch your smartphone and get a dump flip phone or load AOSP.

    No one being allowed back to work unless they have a certificate to prove that they had forced anti-body testing.

    Forced Vaccinations.

    Just to name a few.

    Are you completely unaware or you don’t consider these measures totalitarian?

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  217. @Stan d Mute

    I was with you until you started the boomer bashing.

    The virus is political, but boomers are not to blame.

    Who benefits?

    Bankers and Wall St. jews got TRILLIONS.

    The left/jews testing and implementing new police state controls.

    The left by wrecking the economy to harm the Orange Man.

    Once again, boomers getting blamed for a jewish phenomenon.

    Rachel Maddow, Brian Stelter, Fredo Cuomo, Gavin Newsome, Gretchen Witmer, are not boomers.

    I guess Fauci might be boomer, but I suspect he’s more motivated by partisan politics than by a burning desire to save old people.

    Boomers have no voice, never did.

    White people of all age groups have no voice at all.

    jews run the show, top down.

  218. @Monotonous Languor

    Maybe you haven’t noticed that it’s the alt-right who’s most on board with all of this?

    • Replies: @Monotonous Languor
  219. @NoLock

    Officially tallied deaths per 1m pop according to Worldometer:

    Sweden: 152
    Denmark: 61
    Germany: 55
    Norway: 30
    Finland: 17

    So this global PANdemIC has a lower mortality rate than major American cities’ murder rates? Or the US highway fatality rate?

    At what point is something a crisis worthy of destroying our livelihoods (and likely leading to famine, war, etc)? When it surpasses the fatalities from say lightning strikes?

    • Agree: Robert Dolan
  220. NoLock says:

    @Stan d Mute and @others, why is it so hard to discern the difference between a pandemic and other causes of deaths that occur at foreseeable rates?

    Why is it so hard to make the assertion that (a) Covid-19 really is a genuine global health crisis but that
    (b) the pseudo-elites ruling over us may try to exploit it according to the principle to never let a good crisis pass?

    Why does it have to be EITHER (a) OR a (manufactured version of) (b)? Why can’t it be BOTH?

    By insisting on (b) while dismissing (a), much of the alternative media may be loosing lots of the credibility they have built over many years.

    The pandemic appears to be developing in much too unforeseeable ways to have been manufactured.
    It crashes the financial system. It plays to the strengths that China has relative to the West, and also to
    the strengths that Russia has relative to the West. And that is supposed to be manufactured? Unlikely.

    Three major nCoV strains have been identified, A, B, and C. A appears to be the oldest one and it is
    present more in the US than in China. That explains why strange things were happening in the US in 2019: They knew what was coming. Then the virus mutated like the Spanish flu back in 1918/1919. What we
    are seeing is already the second wave.

    • Replies: @davidgmillsatty
  221. @Anon

    For fuck sake. You actually think the govt doesn’t already track your retarded ass is both funny and sad.

    If forced testing is a thing, I would applaud it. So fuckers would not be free to infect their co workers.

    Oooh, look here, an antivaxer. Now I know why you read like dmg goods.

    • Replies: @RationalRabbit
  222. @Astuteobservor II

    He got the virus and died from it despite following all precautions during his service.

    Where is your proof that he died from the virus and not just with the virus? You do know that the vast majority of those with Covid-19 never develop any symptoms. I realize that these type of nuanced arguments are difficult to follow for people like you who suffer from Covid-19 Derangement Syndrom but please try to focus.

    • Agree: acementhead
  223. @Astuteobservor II

    Please don’t go to the hospital for anything, your genius can cure any n all illness.

    Actually if you had your way and everyone who tested positive for Coronavirus was unnecessarily hospitalized, I couldn’t go to the hospital because it would be full.

    Because people like you who have Corona virus Derangement Syndrome control my state, I can’t get my cat neutered because Veterinarians are banned from performing elective surgeries. Because you know, we can’t be to careful.

    Besides all the deaths you already have on your hands, you can add a bunch of unwanted kittens and puppies to that list.

  224. @Beefcake the Mighty

    ????
    You are completely misinformed.
    Do you even know who the alt-right is, or what they stand for?

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  225. @Astuteobservor II

    If forced testing is a thing, I would applaud it.

    Thanks for pointing out that I succumbed to the false dilemma logical fallacy. I hadn’t considered a third possibility – that you actually are a totalitarian for which forced medical treatment is a hallmark. Unfortunately, you have proven David Horowitz right again – Inside every progressive is a totalitarian screaming to get out.

  226. @threestars

    Funny, but I’m not sure you grasp yet the mix of views, and the evolution of our views, here on unz.com. It’s often far from “right-wing” in the sense that you mean it.

    Many of us have no problem with a generous “social safety net”, even a sizable universal basic income, if it’s for our own people and is paid for by an end to the US War machine and by the elites who have been screwing us through the military, banking, housing, and medical rackets.

    • Agree: acementhead
  227. It’s revealing how all the enraged Corona-bots here sound exactly like Hasbara trolls. Same MO.

  228. @Robert Dolan

    Surprised DS isn’t referred to more by UR commenters. IMO, Anglin’s one of the best political writers anywhere, obvious deficiencies notwithstanding. Early, at the height of media hype and uncertainty, he wrote adamantly that this wave would be <80,000 US deaths.

    DS is deprecated almost universally, but AA's analysis of technology and the state is regularly horizons beyond most of the crew lauded by GOPInc loathers.

    • Agree: Robert Dolan
  229. @TomSchmidt

    As for private debt in the USA, how about establishing a national public bank?

    Cut the Federal Reserve out of the picture. Abolish it.
    Give its powers and functions to the US Treasury and the US Public Bank.
    Also cut the disloyal exploitative for-profit banks out of the loop.

    The National public bank can extend interest-free loans to all US Citizens who have filed federal income tax returns for the past three (or five) consecutive years.

    The interest-free loans will pay off and replace our interest-bearing mortgages, student loans, small-business loans, vehicle loans, and medical loans.

    Only a very small number and tiny percentage of people would suffer from this plan, and they’re well positioned to survive the change: bank owners and executives would lose some of their lavish compensation, and wealthy major bank shareholders would lose some of their dividend income. The banks would still get all their principal repaid, though, and should count themselves lucky for that.

    As for state and municipal governments, the States too can establish public banks. State, county, and local governments would hold their reserve funds and operating accounts alike in the State public bank, rather than in private for-profit banks. In return, the State public bank would refinance the local governments’ debts at zero interest, paying off their interest-bearing private-bank loans. The taxpayers don’t need to pay for the profits and lavish lifestyles of the wealthy people who are the owners, executives, or major shareholders of the profiteer banks.

    As for the fed gov debt, we should focus first on repaying non-elite US Citizens who hold that debt. Say, anyone who has not had more than a million dollars household income over any of the last ten years. If they have US Treasury debt instruments (let alone little old savings bonds), pay them back as promised.

    US Citizens with recent very high income would not be a priority for repayment, nor would people or entities who are not US Citizens. Debt owed to non-elite Americans should be repaid rather than repudiated or renegotiated.

    By contrast, foreigners and very wealthy US Citizens will need to take a big haircut on their holdings of US Fed Gov debt.

    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
    , @TomSchmidt
  230. @NoLock

    Officially tallied deaths per 1m pop according to Worldometer:

    Sweden: 152
    Denmark: 61 [etc.]

    If the strategy in Sweden is correct, shouldn’t present per capita deaths in Sweden be much higher than average from other countries? Far from a rebuttal, those stats are congratulatory.

  231. Anonymous[785] • Disclaimer says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    If and when NYC finally gets it under control, I am 100% sure it will be reintroduced by the surrounding areas as a lot of people working in Manhattan don’t live in NYC.

    For lock downs and quarantine to work, it needs to be simultaneous for all infected areas.

    Does all infected areas include PNG and the DRC?

    This is why ANY lockdown approach can’t work. If asymptomatic carriers are contagious, then how the hell does China stay virus free when the global lockdowns are causing the virus to travel slowly around the world like a bunch of slow moving brush fires? These fires will be burning for months or years and will generate a steady supply of test positive travelers. You expect the safety of 1.2 billion people to rest upon the infallibility of virus tests and border controls? In the absence of herd immunity, China is a tinderbox just waiting to catch fire again.

    I think a much more believable explanation is that this virus has already spread all through China. Then herd immunity has already been attained naturally and the game becomes purely about perception management. Make the party a star for reacting quickly and decisively and maintain that China is now a coronavirus-free utopia with essential life saving medical products available for a low low price on alibaba.com

    • Replies: @davidgmillsatty
  232. A few days ago I heard of someone who likely committed suicide because of the loss of their livelihood due to the closure of bars and restaurants in my state . The recession brought on by the draconian measures taken is leading to increases in the rates of domestic abuse ,divorce,depression,suicide,bankruptcies , home foreclosures .We need herd immunity and not vaccines ,social distancing , quarantines , masks,lockdowns and self-isolation, see : “Stand up for your rights,says bio-statistician Knut Wittkowski “ aier.org .Once the dust settles it will become evident that the Coronavirus is no worse than the seasonal flu . An analysis of the deaths in Italy is showing that far from being a national tragedy the death rate from COVID-19 is not exceptional , for example , the average age of death was 79.5 and 99% of those dying had pre-existing medical conditions such as hypertension,diabetes and heart disease.
    The tragedy is that the pandemic was likely planned , see :” How to create a fake pandemic “ jamesfetzer.org and “Dr.Shiva exposes the medical cartel and Bill Gates’ foundation and COVID-19 endgame”needtoknow.news

  233. @Peter Akuleyev

    Absolutely false. Swedish hospitals are not overwhelmed. Rather, the lockdown has frightened the population from getting needed medical care. Elective procedures are not being done. Cancers are not being diagnosed. Hospitals are empty across the USA.

    We were told the lockdown was to flatten the curve. When the curve was flattened, they pivoted to preventing a rebound curve. The emergency keeps on going.

    I have seen this approach as pumping the brakes of the economy as being the new normal. We will likely go into successive lockdowns and break the economy beyond repair. In the end, about the same number of people will die from Covid-19 as if we had gone Sweden’s way.

    • Thanks: Vojkan
  234. @Monotonous Languor

    I know they’re a limited hangout.

    • Replies: @L.K
  235. Anonymous[785] • Disclaimer says:
    @Robert Dolan

    TB kills 1.7 MILLION people per year. Not only that but we have incurable TB right here in America, the strain that is antibiotic resistant. You didn’t know that. And you don’t care.

    Now that IS interesting. Also I remember reading lombardy is a hot-spot for legionella bacteria.

    It seems this virus is very good at uncovering pre-existing issues with public health, hospitals and the environment. No wonder the politicians hate it so much!

  236. @L.K

    Nice try, but “just the flu” boomertards like Bill Mitchell, RamzPaul, and this guy are driven by a virulent mixture of deep ignorance, intense feelz, confirmation bias, and end-stage Dunning-Krugerism… which renders their delusions entirely impervious to mere facts and logic.

    It was “real in their minds,” and that’s what counts.

    • Disagree: Robert Dolan
    • Troll: Beefcake the Mighty
    • Replies: @Robert Dolan
  237. @ploni almoni

    What exactly did the government create on purpose? Spit it out with some real facts to support the claim.

  238. @Anonymous

    Actually a better idea is that there are three strains to the virus, A, B and C. China and East Asia has B and Europe and the US has A and C. Maybe the virus that stayed in Asia was not nearly as bad as the one that was transported to Europe and then the US.

    https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020/04/07/2004999117

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  239. @NoLock

    The fact that strange things were happening in the US in 2019 (whatever they were) does not necessarily mean the were due to the A strain of Covid 19.

  240. Rubaiyat says:
    @Stan d Mute

    Crocodile tears.
    Nearly a million Americans have died from Fentanyl poisoning.
    Yet you boomers care now?

  241. annamaria says:

    Slightly offtopic: “Bill Gates and the Depopulation Agenda. Robert F. Kennedy Junior Calls for an Investigation: https://www.globalresearch.ca/bill-gates-and-the-depopulation-agenda-robert-f-kennedy-junior-calls-for-an-investigation/5710021

    For over twenty years Bill Gates and his Foundation, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation (BMGF) have been vaccinating foremost children by the millions in remote areas of poor countries, mostly Africa and Asia. Most of their vaccination program had disastrous results, causing the very illness (polio, for example in India) and sterilizing young women (Kenya, with modified tetanus vaccines). Many of the children died. Many of the programs were carried out with the backing of the WHO and – yes – the UN Agency responsible for the Protection of Children, UNICEF.

    Most of these vaccination campaigns were implemented without the informed-consent of the children, parents, guardians or teachers, nor with the informed-consent, or with forged consent, of the respective government authorities. In the aftermath, The Gates Foundation was sued by governments around the world, Kenya, India, the Philippines – and more.

    Bill Gates has a strange image of himself. He sees himself as The Messiah who saves the world through vaccination – and through population reduction.

  242. I’ll wager that Sweden has a very low Dog-Shit Index.
    How much dog shit do you think is to be found on the streets and sidewalks of Stockholm?
    Compare with New York City, Detroit or Chicago…

  243. L.K says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    I know they’re a limited hangout.

    Who is?
    Ron Unz and Paul C. Roberts are limited hangout? Simply because they do not agree with your unfounded idiocies?
    https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2020/04/20/closedown-vs-no-closedown/

    What about B of MoA? A hypocrite? Why?

    B is a typical German Nestbeschmutzer, which is pretty common in Germany, and apparently a leftist of sorts. I have known that for a long time and so have you.
    BTW, I personally know a German Nestbeschmutzer who believes the new Coronavirus health crisis is some sort of global conspiracy, which, just like you, he cannot explain, and that the virus is not more dangerous than the Flu. Maybe you’d like him better…

    So anyway, B has got his blind spots, but he does produce a lot of good analysis and info on many topics. This is common for the vast majority of good writers from the Left to the Right.

    Suddenly B is „oh so terrible” because of his coverage of the COVID-19 pandemic does not agree with your unfounded conspiratorial view of it.

    IOW, anyone who does not agree with your take, whatever it is since you never really try to explain it, is a limited hangout blah, blah…

    Instead of just trolling under every thread that deals with this topic, why don’t you elaborate as to who , why and how this big global conspiracy is playing out?

    Start with China, first hotspot for this new virus. Assuming you at least believe SARS-CoV-2 is real, why do you think the Chinese would implement a very strict lockdown which has badly hurt their economy, after they started to lose control of the situation, if they believed this virus is just like the Flu?

    Iran was the second to be hard hit by SARS-CoV-2. The Iranian economy is already strained under draconian/criminal US sanctions.
    Yet they closed much of their economy, and social life, even mosques. Why?

    Then please expand on that to include the rest of the world.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  244. @James Forrestal

    Ramzpaul has been the voice of reason since the beginning.

    You are a grug.

    Share one fact that Ramz has wrong……..just one……….

    crickets.

    His opinion is based on SOLID FACTS.

    Ramz, Anglin, Ron Paul, and JF (The Public Space) all got it right.

    Tell us, using facts and logic (if you’re able) why Ramzpaul should be “locked down” in Arkansas where there are very few Covid infections.

    There is no justification for isolating strong healthy people, and there is no precedent for this.
    Quarantine is for SICK people. You don’t shut down an entire nation and wreck the whole economy because NYC has a high infection rate. The one size fits all shutdown was epic stupidity.

    Wait til people figure out what has happened, and they realize the actual death rate is very close to the death rate of the seasonal flu……and it dawns on the populace that we destroyed millions of lives for nothing.

    • LOL: L.K
  245. @NoLock

    To all morons who post misleading graphs on the situation in Sweden: Go to c19.se, click on the logarithmic option, both the (official!) case count and the (official!) death count are clearly exponential. The number of hospitalized cases is also steadily rising, though not clearly exponential. Crucially, they are keeping the number of ICU patients at a steady level – so far.

    What garbage. I could call you an imbecill, but I’ll instead ask you to revisit the curve and get back to us. For others interested, here are the daily deaths in Sweden these past days:

    Daily Deaths in Sweden April 1 to 20

    Apr 20: 40
    Apr 19: 29
    Apr 18: 111
    Apr 17: 67
    Apr 16: 130
    Apr 15: 170
    Apr 14: 114
    Apr 13: 20
    Apr 12: 12
    Apr 11: 17
    Apr 10: 77
    Apr 9: 106
    Apr 8: 96
    Apr 7: 114
    Apr 6: 76
    Apr 5: 28
    Apr 4: 15
    Apr 3: 50
    Apr 2: 69
    Apr 1: 59

    Anyone with the least knowledge of mathematics will tell you that this looks nothing like an exponential trend.

    • Agree: Robert Dolan, Mark G.
  246. @L.K

    You’re starting to overdo it.

  247. I have given up. Anons are too stupid to be saved.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  248. Lawdog says:
    @Dino

    I’m not much of a protester, but our current governor is enforcing his edicts with autistic fury. I wonder if he knows what the hell he’s doing.

  249. Pft says:
    @MarkinLA

    In Taiwan they banned flights from Wuhan on Jan 26, had started temp checks at airports earlier, and closed schools for a month after the Lunar New Year holidays. Thats it. No lock downs. No mandatory mask wearing except at hospitals and over the last couple of weeks on Trains. Hundreds of thousands of residents/citizens returned from China by Feb 1. Many more from infected areas in US and Europe over the next 2 months. Foreign visitors prohibited from mid-March

    They do a lot of contact tracing and impose home quarantines on those who came in contact with infected persons but given how rapidly the virus can spread its pretty amazing there are so few cases of local transmission (vast majority are imported cases)

    Personally I think the virus has been spreading for months and there is already herd immunity, but we cant know this for sure until they do widespread antibody testing. Covid-19 testing has been limited to those hospitalized with serious symptoms or those with contacts who are infected although I think I read they have expanded this recently to include anyone with pneumonia regardless of severity or contacts.

    One thing I have noticed is that despite national health care the hospitals were quite less populated in February and into March. Being a cancer patient with diabetes and kidney disease I had no choice but to make all my appointments. This meant less chance of being infected because the hospitals are usually very crowded. So people choose not to go to hospital or doctors unless they are very sick. This might be changing over the last month though. In waiting areas every other seat is marked no sitting to help social distancing (instead of 3 cm now 40 cm distance)

    People also self regulate. More people out walking in the parks, fewer people eating out. Social distancing not really a reality because of population density but trains seem slightly less crowded. When schools were closed kids were out traveling in packs and mingling with retired older populations that are not working. Not sure how effective that was but certainly understable.

    They have done a good job of making people aware and concerned without creating panic like you see in US and parts of Europe. Being free of WHO and Big Pharma interests probably helps. Wish everyone could follow Taiwan and perhaps Swedens model.

  250. @Astuteobservor II

    The butt-hurt is strong with this one. A bit like a bad case of the flu, no?

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  251. @MarkinLA

    “As long as we count everybody who dies”…period. That’s what it takes, apparently, so that’s what is being done in some places. An Arkancide victim shoots himself in the back of the head twice, then dies of coronavirus.

    • Replies: @Robert Dolan
  252. aandrews says:


    https://www.rainews.it/tgr/tagesschau/articoli/2020/04/tag-Coronavirus-Lungeschaden-Forschung-Uniklinik-Innsbruck-6708e11e-28dc-4843-a760-e7f926ace61c.html

    Google Translate:

    It is now undisputed that Covid-19 should be taken seriously as a serious illness. How the late effects will have an impact will only become clear step by step. Recovered patients in diving are also at particular risk. The massive changes in the lungs can significantly increase the risk of accidents, said the senior physician of the Innsbruck University Clinic, Frank Hartig.

    “This is shocking, we don’t understand what’s going on here.”
    Frank Hartig, senior physician at the Innsbruck University Clinic

    He heads the emergency department in the hospital and is the responsible crisis coordinator for Covid 19 patients. In the clinic, doctors have treated dozens of coronavirus sufferers in the past few weeks, from symptom-free spreaders to intensive care patients on the heart-lung machine. Among them were six active divers, all of whom did not have to be treated in hospital, but cured themselves in home quarantines. All of them were not severe cases, their illnesses were five to six weeks ago and they are considered to have recovered. But they can no longer dive. “The damage to the lungs is irreversible,” said Hartig in an interview with the APA. And this despite the fact that they were considered clinically healthy after several weeks of control and showed only individual symptoms such as a coughing cough or reduced performance.

    “This is shocking, we don’t understand what’s going on here. They are probably lifelong patients, so it doesn’t matter whether they dive again or not,” said the doctor. The bad news was made clear by lung CTs. “They didn’t get any better at all in imaging,” said Hartig. “As an emergency doctor with 20 years of experience, you swallow when you see something like this in a 40-year-old patient.”

    In the control after several weeks, two patients showed significant oxygen deficiency when under stress as a typical sign of persistent lung shunt. In two, the bronchi were still very excitable when under stress, as in asthmatics. Four out of the six divers still showed impressive lung changes on the control CT. “I even called on the X-ray to see if they had swapped the pictures because a healthy patient was sitting in front of us,” said Hartig. “When they saw their own pictures, it was shocking for them,” said the doctor. “You have to check regularly with such lung damage.”

    To what extent long-term effects remain on the lungs is unclear according to the doctor and is currently speculative. “We don’t know how much of the changes will last,” said the doctor. When looking at the findings, however, it is difficult “to believe in complete healing”. He therefore published an interim report in the diving magazine “Wetnote” to warn active divers. “After a Covid infection, even if you have only mild symptoms, you should definitely have a dive doctor examine you thoroughly, even if you still have an upright medical examination,” said Hartig.

    Under no circumstances should former patients practice their sport in the summer without clarification. There is already a debate among doctors about artificial ventilation. More and more medical professionals are observing that the condition of Covid 19 patients deteriorates rapidly as soon as they are inserted into the trachea and connected to a counseling device. Hospitals in the USA have therefore been trying to delay ventilation for as long as possible. The first warnings came from Italy, where the majority of the ventilated patients died.

    “If you give them two liters of oxygen, the oxygen saturation will be a little better, but a few hours later, many of them will be in the intensive care unit.”
    Frank Hartig, senior physician at the Innsbruck University Clinic

    Such observations are also made in the Innsbruck clinic. Patients come to the ambulance with low oxygen saturation, except for increased respiratory rate, they are fine according to the circumstances, although according to the textbook they should be intubated immediately in the case of such poor blood gases, Hartig reported. “If you give them two liters of oxygen, the oxygen saturation will get a little better, but a few hours later, many of them are in the intensive care unit with intubation and severe lung failure,” said the doctor. Many doctors feel that oxygen triggers cascades.

    “It is worrying what we experience and what we do in the intensive care unit and it is clear how little we know,” said Hartig. “We are talking to people and feel like they are over the mountain and they are dying two hours later,” said the emergency doctor. In the case of seriously ill people, it is sometimes shown that oxygen can also be counterproductive. Divers have an increased level when diving

    • Thanks: Spanky
    • Replies: @Mehen
  253. @Twodees Partain

    Just in…..Vince Foster’s “suicide” has been reevaluated and it seems that he died of Coronavirus after all.

    • LOL: Twodees Partain
  254. @L.K

    You dishonestly push this study as if it is the last word on the subject, when in reality it is nothing of the sort.

    The following is Ron Unz’s take on it…

    I agree with you that the Santa Clara serological study should not be the last word on the subject, but I would point out that Mr Unz has made a considerable emotional investment in the idea of lockdowns:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/the-government-employee-who-may-have-saved-a-million-american-lives/

    So, I am not sure he is entirely dispassionate when it comes to the efficacy of lockdowns. The fact remains that lockdowns, closing down a healthy population to protect them from contagion, remains the experiment with no scientific data behind it. It isn’t even clear at this point that it saves lives, it may in the end cost more lives than a less draconian approach. Certainly, I can’t imagine that his personal income has suffered much from the lockdown. He should show more patience with those who have.

    But I do not fault him. I was in favor of the lockdown initially because we were told we would flatten the curve. But when the curve was flattened, those in charge began to pivot to either prevent a recurrence of the virus if lockdowns were loosened, or else they are talking about completely eliminating the virus itself. Sure, the study isn’t perfect, the researchers admit it themselves, a better serologic test needs to be developed, and it will be. But their attempt is to provide some scientific data upon which to make decisions as to when and how to lift the lockdowns. Not the last word, the first word. More studies are needed.

  255. @Beefcake the Mighty

    The stupid anon who can only dodge questions with “you are over doing it”.

    • Agree: L.K
  256. Anonymous[785] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hegar

    Now, don’t get me wrong. I support a quarantine. For the countries that need it. I support it for the U.S., because it will be a disaster if corona comes back every year, throughout the winter.

    You are confused. Lock down means it WILL come back.

    There are only two ways to stop it coming back :

    a) no lock down, herd immunity develops naturally
    b) let bill gates inject and tag eveyone

    Which one sounds better to you?

    • Agree: Robert Dolan, Vojkan
  257. Anonymous[785] • Disclaimer says:
    @glib

    How does Northern Italy have more than the excess mortality in Italy, and the rest of the country (60% of the population) have lower than normal mortality?

    Air pollution, right?

    We’re seeing 6 factors in play, ranked in descending order of impact:

    A) health of the population
    B) air quality
    C) environmental quality (TB pathogens)
    D) state of health care system
    E) coronavirus political reaction
    F) the actual coronavirus

    • Replies: @glib
  258. glib says:
    @Anonymous

    definitely air pollution. But there is more: legionella possibly (which created a pneumonia outbreak a few years back), a collapse of the health system, Easter european caretakers fleeing, and a lot of regular medical personnel staying home. Heavy use of antibiotics at the province level, to ward off parasitic infections (every province issued its own guidelines).

    Then there are these private-run nursing homes, a gift of liberalism, which are much less common in the South. 60% of the dead were in nursing homes, private and public, but the private ones can be quite bad. Even before covid, authorities were closing one every now and again. When some of them collapsed due to enough cheap Ukrainians fleeing the country, authorities found dehydrated abandoned elderly in there. My friend who is a family doctor in Emilia-Romagna: they were dehydrated before, too, but now they were more dehydrated. Then of course the data from villages and towns which have one such facility make the NYT, to prove mortality is high!

    So these comparisons between countries really do not work without slicing and dicing the data. Problematic nursing homes are also present in Sweden. But people keep doing them.

  259. geokat62 says:

    Dr John P.A. Ioannidis is a professor of medicine and professor of epidemiology and population health, as well as professor by courtesy of biomedical data science at Stanford University School of Medicine, professor by courtesy of statistics at Stanford University School of Humanities and Sciences, and co-director of the Meta-Research Innovation Center at Stanford (METRICS) at Stanford University.

    Perspectives on the Pandemic I Dr.
    John Ioannidis Update: 4.17.20 | Episode 4

    starting @ 21:08:

    … and in the US, the data we have from New York suggest that [people that are less than 65 and have no underlying conditions] a little bit over 1% [account for all deaths that we see] but not much so. So, for someone who is less than 65 and has no underlying diseases, the risk is completely negligible.

    • Replies: @Mary Marianne
  260. @geokat62

    You’ll have to take into account that 2/3 of the American population are not healthy and do have an underlying issue, i.e. they’re overweight and 1/3 are even outright obese. Preliminary observations in the ICU across multiple countries indicate that obese people are just as much an at risk group as the elderly, so how many of these obese patients can the healthcare system take up before they become overwhelmed?

  261. @Mary Marianne

    Obesity is 42% in the USA.

    Remember, that is not over weight but obesity.

    • Thanks: Mary Marianne
  262. geokat62 says:
    @Mary Marianne

    You’ll have to take into account that 2/3 of the American population are not healthy and do have an underlying issue, i.e. they’re overweight and 1/3 are even outright obese.

    Despite this grim reality, the age distribution of fatalities in the US is still very skewed toward the elderly.

    Excerpt from, 80% of US coronavirus deaths have been among people 65 and older, a new CDC report says — here’s what it reveals about the US cases:

    Americans ages 65 and older are suffering the highest rates of death and serious illness from the coronavirus, according to a report from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

    “Overall, 31% of cases, 45% of hospitalizations, 53% of ICU admissions, and 80% of deaths associated with COVID-19 were among adults aged ≥65 years with the highest percentage of severe outcomes among persons aged ≥85 years,” the report said.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/most-us-coronavirus-deaths-ages-65-older-cdc-report-2020-3?op=1

    • Replies: @Mary Marianne
  263. geokat62 says:
    @Art

    Hmm — we are already at 41,000?

    Latest forecast from POTUS:

    President Donald Trump said in a Friday press conference that he now expects “substantially” less than 100,000 people will die of the coronavirus.

    https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/national/coronavirus/trump-and-coronavirus-task-force-to-brief-nation-at-1-p-m-et

  264. @RadicalCenter

    I assume you know that North Dakota has a State-owned Bank. Got any research on how your experiment works within that one laboratory for democracy?

  265. @RadicalCenter

    My guess is the haircut cannot be administered as such, by the way. You’d have to use a blowtorch to vaporize the hair without harming the scalps, and before the people getting their hair removed had a chance to recognize that that was going on.

    In other words, it won’t happen if the USA is still a democratic republic.

  266. Mehen says:
    @aandrews

    “The damage to the lungs is irreversible,” said Hartig in an interview with the APA.

    .

    To what extent long-term effects remain on the lungs is unclear according to the doctor and is currently speculative. “We don’t know how much of the changes will last,” said the doctor.

    Pick one and stick with it.

    FYI, long term lung damage is common in run-of-the-mill pneumonia. In many perhaps most cases it eventually heals though it may take years.

    • Replies: @aandrews
  267. TaiChi says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    I was censored and my posts removed repeatedly. Nothing in them was rude, inappropriate, or even political. Moon of Alabama will not allow dissenting opinion published in the comments. That is remarkable hypocrisy and I appreciate your confirming the experience. I don’t make a market writing on the Internet but Mike Whitney does. Zero Hedge does as well, and Moon of Alabama accused them of doxxing someone for republishing contact information that person had published openly on Facebook. Moon soft pedaled the outbreak in China while Zero Hedge was sounding alarms, and from that point forward the criticism seems to have driven the site to a rather shrill level of polarization.

  268. What’s really scary is how many people fell for this Operation. Even smart folks fell for it, just like 9/11.

    I really don’t feel sorry for what is about to happen to Americans. They chose to keep their heads up their yingyangs.

  269. aandrews says:
    @Mehen

    What caught my attention was the heading of the twitter post, that a number of coronavirus patients had developed lung damage and were “mildly symptomatic”–divers no less; fit and healthy–which led me to wonder what that meant in practice. Could you be walking around thinking to yourself that you had a strange, raw sensation in your chest and telling yourself, don’t be a hypochondriac, when in actuality your lungs were infected and being injured. Permanently. Which would be fantastic, right?

    Keep in mind that’s a Google Translate translation, but it still provides the overall takeaway I stated above: healthy people, a bit under the weather, having their lungs “permanently” damaged by a light coronavirus infection.

    And BTW, I’m unchurched in run-of-the-mill pneumonia. I don’t think I’ve ever had it. I don’t get sick.

  270. @Robert Dolan

    “A study of Los Angeles County by the University of Southern California – based on the first round of antibody testing – found 4.1% of the county’s entire adult population already come into contact with the virus and developed an antibody.

    That means the number infected in the county is 28 to 55 times higher than at the time the study was conducted earlier this month.”

    Isn’t that a minimum of 100% of the county infected? With as many as 220%.

    Lol. What’s going on?

    • Replies: @geokat62
  271. geokat62 says:
    @Johnny Rico

    Isn’t that a minimum of 100% of the county infected? With as many as 220%.

    Los Angeles County has an adult population ~8.6 million.

    If 4.1% of the county’s entire adult population already is infected that means ~352,600 are infected.

    After adjusting for statistical margin of error, that means anywhere from 221,000 to 442,000 local adults in Los Angeles have been infected by the coronavirus. These numbers are 28 to 55 times higher than the 7,994 confirmed COVID-19 cases in LA at the time the study was conducted earlier this month.

    Not sure how your 100% and 220% apply.

  272. @geokat62

    I was just using approximately 28 and 55 times the 4.1% that the article claimed should be infected at this date after the tests were administered.

    I thought I was good at math/word problems. Maybe not.

    …oh, I see. The article I read seemed to omit some of the stuff you posted or related it different. Or I can’t read. Or I’m an idiot.

    Thanks for responding and explaining. Stay well.

  273. @Chepo

    https://jornalggn.com.br/
    The best br news source.

    Do not waste time with Brazilian numbers. It’s all fake!
    The numbers are a lot higher and the entire country is in full lockdown from long time ago.

    Bolsonaro won’t survive the crisis.

  274. Martin An says:

    Anyone who begins his text with “Sweden is right” has disqualified himself from being taken seriously. You obviously do not know anything about Sweden.
    Oh, and btw, you can not trust any statistics out of Sweden. If that corrupt regime says 2000 dead you can be sure it is more like 20 000 and counting. Officials in Sweden are just that bad.

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  275. @geokat62

    Which test do they use in LA county to confirm that someone has been infected by the coronavirus? From what I have read there is no accurate field test for the Coronavirus . Aren’t all the statistics being reported about the number of alleged Coronavirus cases just BS ?

    • Replies: @glib
  276. geokat62 says:

    Concluding paragraph to, The Swedish experiment looks like it’s paying off: As the world went into lockdown, Sweden opted for a different approach:

    So Sweden isn’t edging closer to a lockdown. Nor is Team Tegnell panicking and fighting for its reputation. The vast majority of people think Sweden broadly opted for a balanced and effectual policy and current trends support that view. Everyone is upset about carelessness in nursing homes — that a very high share of our death toll is elderly nursing home residents — and that emergency plans were so poor and medical contingency stocks so small. People will be held to account. Some heads will roll. My guess is that it won’t be Tegnell’s.

    https://spectator.us/swedish-experiment-paying-off/

  277. glib says:
    @9/11 Inside job

    good point. But the data from Stanford and Denmark are taken from blood donor samples, so it is in the lab. and they pain the same picture.

  278. @anon

    More utter nonsense and Bollocks.
    You are one stupid agenda driven Wanker.

    Professor Johan Giesecke, one of the world’s most senior epidemiologists, advisor to the Swedish Government (he hired Anders Tegnell who is currently directing Swedish strategy), the first Chief Scientist of the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control, and an advisor to the director general of the WHO, lays out with typically Swedish bluntness why he thinks:

    • Agree: Alfred
    • Replies: @Martin An
    , @thotmonger
  279. @Jaakko Raipala

    The vast majority of dead in Sweden are migrants, especially Somalians, who don’t follow the advice and instead still gather in mosques and such. They also have high levels of obesity and poor health in general compared to ethnic Swedes.

    Skinnies with high levels of obesity are definitely a new concept for me.

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  280. @geokat62

    Despite this grim reality, the age distribution of fatalities in the US is still very skewed toward the elderly.

    But how is obesity distributed along the USA population? If I’m not mistaken it’s almost 30% for people age 65+, right? So, maybe it’s a bit lower than the 42% average (thanks to Astuteobserver II for correcting me on this, by the way), but I think old+obese will still make a person twice as likely to be at risk of landing in the ICU compared to young+obese.

  281. Martin An says:
    @BDS Always

    Hehe, your cherished professor puts the top level of dead in the UK to 12 000, which official numbers had already passed which the old fool has to be informed about by the reporter! Just go to the 25 min mark.
    And he is not “one of the world’s most senior epidemiologists”, he is just some scientist who sucked up to the politicians and political correctness so he could get a lucurative do nothing politically apointed job.

  282. Concerned says:

    One size fits all cannot be used & expect others to follow like lambs. UK government has been embroiled in BREXIT for more than 3 years. The politicians in the main parties and within the same party have been at odds with each other. Several politicians have been economical with the truth with regards to after effects of BREXIT. This caused distrust & animosity within the ruling class. Now when faced with this PANDEMIC they are finding it difficult to band together to tackle the hidden (invisible) enemy of the CORONAVIRUS. Therefore it is not surprising that progress has been slow to poor. There is also the reserve amongst the Gentry as regards use of the Mask. They consider wearing the mask belongs to the lower class or people from the 3rd world. Boris johnson famously called muslim women wearing face covering as post boxes or worse and was paid handsomely for it.
    Now if the Govt collectively endorses the use of face mask (which clearly prevents virus laden moisture exchange between persons) they are fearful of being ridiculed for adopting this practice.
    Clearly the vaccine when finally developed and made available for general use will hopefully help to overcome this pandemic but in the meantime the state should actively try to isolate the sources of infection. Test, treat, & isolate are the best options but there is reluctance by the bureaucracy to implement it. Strong leadership is required, give people the choice follow the proper advice or Die!!

  283. @Anon

    Jair Bolsonaro is still White… he has caucasian not negroid low iq genes. And anyway the people you love the most…all the LOW IQ Half Black degenerates that live in your shithole favelas need to be culled anyway.

  284. @TomSchmidt

    Bullshit. He cited an anecdote from his family members. That doesn’t extrapolate to the entire UK hospitals.

    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
  285. @geokat62

    A similar study by Stanford was debunked so badly they withdrew the study. Test used was awful. Needed a specificity of 97% and an evaluation of the test in Denmark showed it to be dead last out of nine tests with a specificity of about 85%. Also the test was not random though it purported to be. If the LA test is similar in results to the Stanford study, I think it is likely it suffers from the same problems as the Stanford test.

    Stanford test debunked by this PhD in pathology:

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  286. @davidgmillsatty

    What, no more droning on and on about A, B, C variants?

  287. anon[258] • Disclaimer says:

    US economy is being run by workers at grocery stores ,convenience store gas stations and grocery delivery group like instacart Insta art is recruiting . I don hear that these people are getting any benefit of any kind . Neither the business behind those services . Neither mask or sanitzuiers being made available .

    While airlines are asking for money not loan but money after getting enough while the CEOs and managers at higher levels are not being laid off or sent home on reduced pay . What will it do with money while it sits on the ground and doesn’t fly because people won’t fly ? Meanwhile an outrage has to emerge before the CEOs of KLM will decide not to claim the bonuses .

    Thuggish Democrats wanted to show that it was fighting for common folks when 400 billions for 2nd tier business was on the table but ddi not fight when 2 trillions were on the grab ,e for the banks and hedge fund or big business .

    It is ironical that this who are running the essential services are not being protected.

  288. @davidgmillsatty

    You originally wrote:

    Virtually every country that resisted lock downs ultimately gave in when their health care service got overwhelmed. Today I notice their new cases are up by 10%.

    One commenter responded:

    I can only talk about the UK, but our government actually caved in at the first hint of public pressure – i.e. when they came to understand that the ‘herd immunity’ strategy would leave them vulnerable to campaigns of hysteria, promoted by socialist neurotics etc. Family members work as doctors, and they say that the hospitals they work in never got overwhelmed, and are currently much quieter than usual.

    SO, to evaluate your original statement, there must be countries that “resisted” “lockdowns” but gave in when their “health care service got overwhelmed.”

    Which countries’ healthcare systems have gotten overwhelmed? TO my knowledge, that’s Italy and maybe Spain. Certainly not Germany or Austria or Norway; all five locked down. Now, maybe none of these “resisted” lockdowns?

    So, is your point that Italy resisted the lockdown but gave in when its healthcare system was overwhelmed? Or is it that the UK DID get overwhelmed, in the face of the evidence from the commenter, anecdotal that it is, that his relatives aren’t overwhelmed? If so, do you have evidence it’s overwhelmed, with patients being denied ventilators because they’re all full?

    • Replies: @davidgmillsatty
  289. @Martin An

    “If that corrupt regime says 2000 dead you can be sure it is more like 20 000 ”

    Or 20, or maybe 2. If a government is known for lying, why should it automatically follow that they are lying by understatement instead of by overstatement?

  290. @Johann Ricke

    Yep, for me as well. I’ve never met an obese Somalian, even among those who have been exposed to the Standard American Diet for a decade. Fat skinnies….whatta concept.

  291. Wielgus says:

    https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-trump/sunlight-heat-and-humidity-weaken-coronavirus-u-s-official-says-idUKKCN2253S8

    “U.S. government researchers have determined that the virus survives best indoors and in dry conditions, and loses potency when temperatures and humidity rise – and especially when it is exposed to sunlight, said William Bryan, acting head of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security’s Science and Technology Directorate.”

    I am in a lockdown at least until the 27th but most probably until May 5, yet it is sunny outside. Are these paskudnyaks actually trying to kill us?

  292. Wielgus says:

    https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-trump/sunlight-heat-and-humidity-weaken-coronavirus-u-s-official-says-idUKKCN2253S8

    “U.S. government researchers have determined that the virus survives best indoors and in dry conditions, and loses potency when temperatures and humidity rise – and especially when it is exposed to sunlight, said William Bryan, acting head of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security’s Science and Technology Directorate.”

    I am in a lockdown at least until the 27th but most probably until May 5, yet it is sunny and dry outside. Are these paskudnyaks actually trying to kill us?

  293. @Astuteobservor II

    Let’s strip down the article to the bare minimum.

    He … died

    What was the fatal injury that killed him? We are not told.

    Doubter of the divinity of our Lady of Corona smited story.

  294. @Beefcake the Mighty

    No kidding. This is the inability of people to think and be logical from the very beginning. What most consider good sense, reason and common sense is merely a mish mash of mish mash rattling around an empty head giving them a headache and the people they deal with a migraine.

    Hence, their conclusions and direction has no foundation so the next gust of lies, half truths and outright dangerous deceptions blows them off course and in whatever direction and finally onto a reef.

    Its the old story. A person who is exposed as a liar can never be again trusted under any circumstances. The same for organizations and governments. Everyone knows politicians are outright liars yet most people believe the “next” leader will be different because of course he promised he would be with his hands on the Holy Book, Scout’s Honour and all that.

    Its like the guy who promises a reluctant girl a new car if she gives it up. However once he gets his load off she has to go back to public transit. People want to believe others are good and will do the right thing. I laugh at the very legal system where a criminal shows “remorse” and gets 5 years knocked off the jail time or like politicians who confess to the American public and ask forgiveness.

    Americans love this shit. “He showed remorse, he deeply regrets his actions, God be praised he saw the light”.

    That is why people always believe it is going to be different “this time” or next time. The majority are gullible and believe whatever crap is bulldozed their way and the politicians, grifters, hustlers, and con men in Government and Corporations know this and exploit it.

    These fellows have their own agenda and care only for themselves. They will do and say anything to ensure their interests are respected. Anyone who believes otherwise is a simpleton.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  295. Anonymous[156] • Disclaimer says:
    @The Grim Joker

    Yes. These guys (rightfully) distrust everything the US govt says, except, for some reason, on this one issue. And that reason is, the Chinese govt claims it’s serious! The alt-right (and their idiot left hangers-on) can’t see that the US elites are basically getting the Chinese elites to do their lying for them. Pretty pathetic.

  296. @TomSchmidt

    Some of them gave in before their healthcare systems got overwhelmed (saw the writing on the wall) as well as those who waited until they got overwhelmed (who failed to see it) was my actual intent. Sorry I didn’t make that clear. Ultimately nearly every country has locked down either because they were overwhelmed or saw the writing on the wall.

    All he is saying that he knows places that were not overwhelmed. That probably happened in the countries that were most overwhelmed was my point.

  297. @BDS Always

    I enjoyed listening to this very much. Insightful and sobering. Left me optimistic that on the public health front his outlook reflects reality far better than most and will prevail in the long term. Thank you.

    Predictably, his forty years of epidemiological experience is not enough for some on this thread who are fully converted by the fear propaganda and thereby militantly committed to surrendering all their liberties.

    The Mother of All Economic Shell Games is now being played behind the Covid curtain. Without a global jubilee extracted from Soros, Bezos et al., billions of people will fall into a yawning sink hole of endless debt and grinding poverty.

    Oh but the high minded “free thinking” mass media addicts rush to brow beat any rational dissent hoping not to lose their place in line to have butts branded Safe for Big Brother.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  298. @thotmonger

    Not just the MSM. The American oligarchs face a similar situation to the Soviets 30 years ago: gerontocracy, flaccid ideology (liberalism instead of communism, same difference), etc. So how do you get people to keep believing your bullshit? Why, get someone else to lie for you! First, create a movement (the alt-right) premised on the unassailable fact that the US government has lied about virtually every historical and sociological event of the 20th century. (Toss in some pathologically disaffected left-tards for entertainment purposes.) Then, once you’ve got your bots convinced that anyone opposed to the US govt must be truthful, unleash some phony event that someone who’s been harassed by the US (China, Iran, whatever) can attest to being a crisis, and viola, all skepticism is gone. Become Microsoft property (“vaccinated”) and go back to debating how many people died at Treblinka. Problem solved.

    • Agree: Alfred
  299. Looks like our worries are over!

  300. Alfred says:

    I am coming around to the opinion that people wanted a bit of self-flagellation. Life had been too steady and boring for too many and for too long. Well, this virus certainly did the trick. Places like the USA, the UK and Australia never had the experience of being invaded by alien people. They needed a shakeup.

    Anyone with half a brain knows by now that the mainstream media has been lying from before WW1 about the major events that have affected us and our predecessors. And yet, in this instance, we have fallen back to believing everything the mainstream media comes up with. An amazing about turn. I am stunned. What the British now call gobsmacked.

    One can illustrate to one’s heart content that the figures coming out of the US are fake because the CDC changed the definition of the cause of death. One can quote data from countries like Sweden and Belarus to prove that herd immunity works and yet suffer derision or get ignored. One can point out that in most of Africa, South America and Asia nothing exceptional is going on and that far more young people are dying from failed policies and regular diseases and yet be ignored.

    I am extremely lucky to be old, healthy, liquid and living in a society that is used to hardship. I think I will watch from the sidelines while the wealthy of the USA rape the people a little more. I will watch while people who had their own stores beg for jobs at Amazon. I will listen to the screeching of the scooters of the precariat delivering necessities to people who are voluntarily under house arrest with alacrity.

    I never thought that the Pied Piper of Hamelin would take place once again – with the young drowning in debt. I prefer to be the lame one who was a bit too slow to join the throng.

    • Agree: Hail
    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  301. @Alfred

    Sadly, you’re right. BTW, another thing you can do: read Ron and his bots cheer it all on. If nothing else, the alt-right psyop has been a fascinating exercise in manipulation.

    • Replies: @Hail
  302. Hail says: • Website

    re: The important matter of SWEDEN VINDICATED

    (from a comment/update to my post Against the Corona Panic, Pt. III: “Just the Flu” Vindicated by the Data; Or, Why to End the Shutdowns Now)

    I want to re-post this here:

    The vertical lines show seven-day windows, weeks starting Sunday, for your analysis convenience.

    The obvious thing to note here is that Deaths are on the decline, as are ICU intakes to a lesser extent.

    We have now (April 25) completed the eighth week of the epidemic as it shows up in the numbers, ICU-intakes and deaths; there is a slight data lag. You can see that the peak of the epidemic was between the middle of the fifth week and the middle of the seventh week.

    Of interest: This data-set further suggests that the epidemic-curve for this flu virus, the virus’ circulation in the population, started no later than mid-February, or early February, likely at least two weeks before the first confirmed case, making for eleven weeks total of the epidemic to the present, which is about the usual for a flu-virus epidemic to run through and start to fade.

    Maybe there were still earlier infections, but the familiar epidemic-arc can be dated to starting its upward move about that time, early-/mid-February, the exact circumstances of which are for specialists to study in the future.

    The obvious good news is that Sweden is seeing no Corona Apocalypse and will not see one, as the discredited, pro-Panic alarmists behind the Imperial College paper claimed, leading to one of the worst, most destructive policy blunders of the century.

    ___________

    From a comment at the Steve Sailer blog today:

    Sweden, explained:

    The Wuhan Coronavirus is a flu virus that ran its normal course, in Sweden, and in the US and elsewhere, in Q1 and into Q2 2020. It looks exactly like every other flu virus in its epidemic arc. What it does not look like is a Zombie Apocalypse Virus. There was no need for this panicked overreaction.

    I still see no alternative but to basically blame the media, but am open to other ideas.

    • Thanks: Alfred
    • Replies: @JDTrader
  303. Hail says: • Website
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    There are more than a few people who have disgraced themselves.

    I could not believe it, really, as it was happening. I can see being scared, but not cynically pushing a destructive Panic to try to grab some kind of temporary political advantage. I cannot believe so many people did this.

    The interesting thing is, the Great Corona Political Cross-Cut was not limited at all to “the Right,” or the “Alt-Right” (whatever it is), but completely divided the Left and Alt-Left too. A lot of Alt-Media either fell for this ‘hoax’ (a word not necessarily too strong, but probably not the best one for what happened), or very cynically cheered it on even as they sensed it might not be…well, true. I wrote about Hunter Wallace doing this, and he even apparently banned anti-Panic authors from his site.

    An example on the Alt-Left media caving in: The normally skeptical-, critical-of-government-diktats-, critical-of-MSM-promoted-alarmism (about whatever passing issue of the day), Democracy Now (featured on this website in the videos section), completely caved in to CoronaParanoia and became one among the Panic-pushers.

    As far as I’m concerned, there are guilty parties here (at least theoretically) who deserve prison for this; how can the ‘ringleaders’ of this unnecessary Panic get away with destroying so many lives, and doing so much damage, all for nothing? Based on somebody’s wild-guess?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  304. Laurence says:
    @Robert Dolan

    One thing missing is information on the The Swedish health care system which is mainly government-funded, universal for all citizens. The following is from Wikipedia, however, I lived in Sweden and can tell you I know much of this first hand.

    Private healthcare is a rarity in Sweden.

    The Swedish government makes an effort to limit private firms in healthcare. The government takes precautions to eliminate profit seeking in the welfare/public health sector.

    When a physician declares a patient to be ill for whatever reason (by signing a certificate of illness/unfitness), the patient is paid a percentage of their normal daily wage from the second day. For the first 14 days, the employer is required to pay this wage, and after that the state pays the wage until the patient is declared fit.

    Dental care is free for youths up to 19 years of age, while a general dental care insurance (introduced in 1974) covers all inhabitants from the age of 20 onwards.[13]

  305. Hellene says:

    Sweden: I am NOT impressed by this country when it comes to sciences and technologies.

    They forced Germany to pay more than $6 Billion for profits lost when Gernamy deciced to close its nuclear power plants after the Fukushima horrific disaster.

    I will never trust this country

    Vattenfall sued Germany in 2012, seeking €4.3 billion plus interest for lost profits related to two of its nuclear power plants. The legal action came after the German Parliament decided to speed up the phase-out of nuclear energy following the Fukushima disaster in 2011 and countrywide anti-nuclear …”

    Vattenfall Seeks $6 Billion in Compensation for …

    https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/nuclear/swedish-energy&#8230;

    For more details, please see:

    Energy Charter Treaty: Silent expansion
    http://www.bilaterals.org

    ” … many countries are in line to sign the agreement, with its extreme investor privileges. In signing up, they risk shrinking their ability to decide their own energy policy, as well as opening themselves up to the potential for costly lawsuits by investors.

    Silent expansion
    What is the Energy Charter Treaty?
    http://www.bilaterals.org

    The Energy Charter Treaty (ECT) is an international agreement from the mid-1990s. Investor rights apply to 53 countries stretching from Western Europe through Central Asia to Japan, plus the EU and the European Atomic Energy Community. It grants corporations in the energy sector enormous power to sue states at international investment tribunals for billions of dollars, for example, if a government decides to stop new oil or gas pipelines or to phase out coal.

    https://www.energy-charter-dirty-secrets.org/

    • Replies: @Alfred
  306. Anonymous[156] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hail

    Yes. Moon of Alabama is a good example on the left of this kind of cave-in. He deletes dissenting comments and supports his alarmist viewpoint with links to The Economist! Truly useless.

  307. @Anonymous

    I second your sentiment. I really enjoyed the viewpoints at MoA but I am so disappointed that the community there cannot back out of a stupid position. I am a lefty. But paleoleft is like paleoright – you change with the facts and accept that ideology is imperfect and you have to admit when it gets in the way and you make mistakes…This is a heartbreaking situation that screws families, small biz, and youth unlike anything in my lifetime…I was so heartened to tonight to read the many enlightened and humbled comments on this thread. Thank you to all of you in this community. Wish I had an armchair for each of you (minus most of the obvious trolls) in my home. I have an unfinished cellar where the troll losers could hang out, I suppose…Anyone is better than no one some days.

  308. Yes Mary Mallon got a bad rap. It was unjust depriving her of her freedom of association and employment.

  309. Alfred says:
    @Hellene

    They forced Germany to pay more than $6 Billion for profits lost when Gernamy deciced to close its nuclear power plants after the Fukushima horrific disaster.

    If countries don’t protect investments in energy from capricious decisions made by their parliament based on the false CO2 hypothesis, how do you expect companies to make investments in this sector?

    Do you seriously think that you can run a modern economy without dependable cheap electricity?

    Well, we will soon find out. Germany’s politicians have made over the years some really stupid decisions. Closing down their nuclear power stations was only one of them. China and Russia are building nuclear power stations at home. Russia is also building nuclear power stations in other countries. We will get a grandstand view of Germany’s economy going down the tubes and deindustrializing.

    The only good decision they made was to import more gas from Russia. But they had no choice.

    The image below is highly-misleading. It was made to deceive the public.

    There is no generation of solar when it is dark and electricity is most needed. Similarly, there is no electricity from wind-turbines when there is no wind. These fake renewable energy sources need 100% backup generation – from gas, imports from neighbouring countries and coal.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  310. 450.org says:

    This virus is simply amazing in all it can do. It now has diehard Bannon fascists supporting socialist Sweden when before the pandemic Sweden, for these Bannon fascists, was a poster child for socialism bashing. The tragic joke is, Sweden is not a socialist country by any stretch and in fact a case can be made it’s rather fascist instead as this response to the virus underscores.

  311. @Rubaiyat

    No. With the sole exception of an hermite you always have to consider getting food, water, shelter and so on in cooperation with other people. Much more so in a modern society that relies on division of labor and specialisation. You must rely on someone to provide these things to you in exchange for something you provide. Be it goods or be it services.

  312. MarkinLA says:
    @Alfred

    The fantasy is that there will be battery type storage for the excess and that the fossil or nuclear backup will be much smaller – of course until it doesn’t and you have rolling blackouts all throughout Europe in the winter.

  313. vot tak says:
    @Anonymous

    The moa blogger bernhard horstman is hardly a leftist, he is a zionazi. 100%. One can not be zionist and leftwing, any more than one can be nazi and leftwing. These are opposites. Beyond this obvious point, horstman is a trumpette. The main backing for trump is from the zionazi far right, likud and the like. They selected him to be the colonial guv, they formulate the regime’s policies. They also run the psywar machine promoting “trump’s” policies.

  314. JDTrader says:
    @Hail

    Is Sweden a success?
    As of today they have a 12% confirmed case fatality rate (Italy has 13.58%). The number of deaths from coronavirus is 2355. Compare that to the number of seasonal flu deaths in Sweden which clocks in at 1541. Now these numbers obviously all have a room for error but no one will know with any certainty what nations had the best strategies until this is all in our rearview mirrors. Who can say Sweden’s numbers will start to accelerate. I can’t, you can’t…nobody can with any certainty.

    If Sweden’s approach seemed successful at first, are they now paying the price as deaths have been ramping up. It doesn’t take much for this virus to spread so any change in precautions can have serious consequences…or maybe not. Was the US reaction the right one? Who the hell knows? What happens when these states start opening up again? The number of deaths will definitely tick back up as more carriers start to spread the virus again. Will it be a low number or a high number? I don’t know, you don’t know…nobody does. Forget models. They can’t predict the future and can only dictate possible outcomes based on input in a controlled environment where all variable are known. There are too many variables with this virus to make any predictions and that is what has made it hard to dictate any kind of fool-proof policy.

    • Replies: @glib
  315. vot tak says:

    Zero Fatalities: What is Behind Vietnam’s Success in Combatting Coronavirus?

    https://sputniknews.com/asia/202004291079133107-zero-fatalities-what-is-behind-vietnams-success-in-combatting-coronavirus/

    “Six coronavirus infections in Vietnam proved enough for Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc to announce a COVID-19 epidemic in the country in late January.

    This was followed by a national lockdown, which saw the suspension of all air and rail links with neighbouring China and the closure of schools and universities.

    Vietnamese authorities also recommended that residents should install a special app on their mobile phones to monitor the COVID-19 situation, part of the government’s effort to combat the outbreak.

    The situation went south in late March, when the number of confirmed coronavirus cases in Vietnam soared to more than 100, prompting the authorities to immediately react by, in particular, denying visas to all foreigners, except diplomats and other civil servants.

    The government announced the closure of cafes, bars, night clubs, cinemas, as well as karaoke and massage parlors across the country, also banning gatherings of more than 20 people.

    Urban traffic was minimised and areas particularly affected by the coronavirus were completely isolated as Vietnam purchased at least 200,000 COVID-19 tests from South Korea.

    As of 1 April, people were allowed to leave home only for visiting a shop or a pharmacy, with military and mobile medical units deployed to fight the epidemic.

    Pyotr Tsvetov, associate professor of the Russian Foreign Ministry’s Diplomatic Academy, said that there is no reason to question official statistics pertaining to the current coronavirus situation in Vietnam.

    “The country is traditionally strong with its administrative vertical [of power] and the ability to mobilise the population. They took the fight against the coronavirus very seriously, proclaiming the slogan ‘Combat the epidemic as an enemy’, a reference to wars against aggressors”, Tsvetov emphasised.

    He also pointed to Vietnam’s previous experience of fighting the SARS (severe acute respiratory syndrome) epidemic in 2003, when the country “showed the ability to curb the infection”.

    He was echoed by Ho Chi Minh City resident Anastasia who suggested that the secret to Vietnam’s success in fighting COVID-19 is the public’s attitude toward the issue and quick reaction of the authorities.

    “People unquestionably adhered to the rules. Everyone was at home [during the lockdown]”, she said, adding that life is already starting to get back to normal in the city.”

    Unlike sweden, europe and usa, Vietnam learned from China.

    • Replies: @glib
  316. glib says:
    @JDTrader

    The excess mortality in Sweden appears to be minimal. Perhaps you are looking at the wrong data?

  317. glib says:
    @vot tak

    two papers that came out last week show a strong correlation between mortality and sunlight. One (from Indonesia) explicitly studied vit. D. Those who were deficient had ten times (ten!) the mortality of those who had adequate levels. I doubt these country by country comparisons. It does not even work when comparing Southern Italy and Northern Italy.

    • Replies: @vot tak
    , @Anonymous
  318. vot tak says:
    @glib

    Actually the country to country comparisons are a very good measure of how different government policies have affected the virus spread and limited it’s lethality.

  319. Anonymous[355] • Disclaimer says:
    @glib

    two papers that came out last week show a strong correlation between mortality and sunlight

    Please share links.

  320. Botrax says:

    This article is now blocked as Spam on FaceBook

  321. Anon11 says:
    @Felix Keverich

    Of course! That damage you mention is the INTENT of these operations. Nobody is actually trying to “fix” anything with regards to this phony pandemic OR “climate change”. These are nothing but false narratives used as cover to create maximum chaos, in our subhuman overlords’ quest to enslave and destroy us all.

    It’s THAT simple. If you believe ONE WORD they say, you have already failed. They own your soul. And you’re rapidly running out of time to get it back.

  322. The Swedish ecnomy is in as much a recession as everyone else’s. Current prognosis is minus 10 %. Restaurants are open, but have only one third of the traffic which is perhaps worse than the German situation (restaurants being closed except for take away, without not having to pay your rent for 3 months and government help for paying your staff. Most of the economy isn’t closed anyway in most of Europe.
    We still don’t know how everything will pan out in the long run, but right now, the Swedes have more dead than Germany and the economic benefits aren’t so clear.

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