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“You can pay me now or pay me later” is an American expression that means that you can either deal with a particular problem immediately at minimal expense or wait until the problem gets really bad and the costs go through the roof. This is the message that Russian President Vladimir Putin has been trying to get across to Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan for more than a week. In fact, the whole smear campaign connecting Erdogan to the ISIS oil smuggling racket was designed to shame Erdogan into “doing the right thing” and apologizing for the downing of its Su-24 warplane. What Putin wants, is quite simple. He wants Erdogan to admit that what he did was wrong and take the necessary steps to make amends.

What Putin is doing is no different than what any parent would do if their son was throwing sand in the face of some other child on the playground He would take little Johnny by the arm, tell him to stop what he was doing, and make him apologize to the person he hurt. This basic learning experience provides the moral foundation for broader human interaction. If people are allowed to simply run roughshod over others– even to the point where they are willing to kill them to achieve their political objectives– then none of us are ever going to be safe. So Erdogan needs to face the music, apologize, and take his medicine like a man.

But, of course, an apology doesn’t change the fact that a man is dead. And not only a man, but a Russian soldier. That means something. That puts the onus on Putin to seek justice for a hero who died while fighting for his country. Americans don’t understand this because America is always at war. In fact, American history is one long 240-year carnage-generating bloodbath from Bunker Hill to Baghdad, from Wounded Knee to Haditha. As a result, America has to conceal its casualties from public view to the extent that even photographing the flag-draped coffins delivered to Dover Airbase has been banned. That’s how Sparta prevents the people from seeing the enormous costs of its so called interventions.

Russia is different. Russians don’t like war, and war is not a permanent feature in Russian life. So when a pilot is killed in action, the entire country grieves which is exactly what happened when the remains of Lieutenant Colonel Oleg Peshkov were returned from Syria to Moscow. It was a day of national mourning.

Now the ball is in Putin’s court. Now it is incumbent on him, as a responsible and moral leader, to seek justice for Peshkov, which means that, first of all, he must persuade Erdogan must acknowledge his mistake and apologize. Secondly, there has to be some tangible effort to make amends. It’s Putin’s responsibility to demand accountability, not revenge. And that’s what he’s doing. Putin has already stated in blunt terms that he is NOT going to let this thing slide. There will be payback, that much is certain.

In order to understand how strongly Putin feels about the matter and, also, how strongly he feels about Russia’s mission in Syria, here’s an excerpt from the State of the State speech he gave just this week:

“Russia has demonstrated immense responsibility and leadership in the fight against terrorism. Russian people have supported these resolute actions. The firm stance taken by our people stems from a thorough understanding of the absolute danger of terrorism, from patriotism, high moral qualities and their firm belief that we must defend our national interests, history, traditions and values.

The international community should have learned from the past lessons. The historical parallels in this case are undeniable. Unwillingness to join forces against Nazism in the 20th century cost us millions of lives in the bloodiest world war in human history.

Today we have again come face to face with a destructive and barbarous ideology, and we must not allow these modern-day dark forces to attain their goals.” (Russian President Vladimir Putin’s Annual Presidential Address to the Federal Assembly, St George Hall, Moscow)

Does that sound like a man who is waffling about his commitment in Syria? Does that sound like a man who has any reservations at all about the moral righteousness of his cause?

Again, Russia is not America. The war on terror is not a scam to enhance presidential powers, to curtail civil liberties, to perpetuate America’s wars around the planet, and to reduce the public to quivering, malleable, propagandized imbeciles wailing for the protection of the all-powerful state. Russia’s approach to terrorism is entirely different. It’s constructive and, more important, it’s rational. Putin doesn’t divide terrorists into good terrorists and bad terrorists, moderate terrorist’s and radical terrorists. If they’re terrorists, they’re terrorists regardless of their pedigree and regardless of whether they serve the geopolitical objectives the state or not. They’re enemy and they’re going to be killed. End of story. Here’s how Putin summed it up:

“The terrorists must not be given refuge anywhere. There must be no double standards. No contacts with terrorist organizations. No attempts to use them for self-seeking goals. No criminal business with terrorists.

We know who are stuffing pockets in Turkey and letting terrorists prosper from the sale of oil they stole in Syria. The terrorists are using these receipts to recruit mercenaries, buy weapons and plan inhuman terrorist attacks against Russian citizens and against people in France, Lebanon, Mali and other states. We remember that the militants who operated in the North Caucasus in the 1990s and 2000s found refuge and received moral and material assistance in Turkey. We still find them there.” (Russian President Vladimir Putin’s Annual Presidential Address to the Federal Assembly, St George Hall, Moscow)

So Putin has known all along that Erdogan’s group of fanatical Islamic zealots were overseeing a vast criminal enterprise, but he kept his mouth shut.

Why?

Well, because Putin is discreet. He doesn’t believe that publicly humiliating other world leaders is a positive way to conduct business. Keep in mind, that even though the Russian military has produced tons of evidence connecting Turkey to the illicit sale of stolen oil produced by ISIS, they haven’t once mentioned that Israel has been on the receiving end of many of these transactions. In other words, Putin doesn’t blow the whistle on people unless they force him to do so. Erdogan forced him to do so. Erdogan crossed the line. Erdogan “stabbed him in the back.” Just listen:

“The Turkish people are kind, hardworking and talented. We have many good and reliable friends in Turkey. Allow me to emphasize that they should know that we do not equate them with the certain part of the current ruling establishment that is directly responsible for the deaths of our servicemen in Syria.

We will never forget their collusion with terrorists. We have always deemed betrayal the worst and most shameful thing to do, and that will never change. I would like them to remember this – those in Turkey who shot our pilots in the back, those hypocrites who tried to justify their actions and cover up for terrorists.” (“Russian President Vladimir Putin’s Annual Presidential Address”)

Erdogan is going to pay for what he did, but that doesn’t mean that Putin is going to be irrational about it. The man is not a loose cannon and, besides, this isn’t about revenge, it’s about justice for Peshkov. Here’s Putin again:

“Our actions will always be guided primarily by responsibility – to ourselves, to our country, to our people. We are not going to rattle the sabre. But, if someone thinks they can commit a heinous war crime, kill our people and get away with it, suffering nothing but a ban on tomato imports, or a few restrictions in construction or other industries, they’re delusional. We’ll remind them of what they did, more than once. They’ll regret it. We know what to do.” (“Russian President Vladimir Putin’s Annual Presidential Address”)

Isn’t this how leaders are supposed to behave? Shouldn’t we expect that our leaders place the security of their people and military personnel above everything else? Shouldn’t that be their highest priority?

Of course, it should be. It goes without saying. What Putin is saying is that no one is going to kill a Russian citizen without being held accountable. Period. You have to admire that.

Now compare Putin’s reaction to the killing of Peshkov to 9-11 where the US government prevented an official investigation for more than a year and then packed the investigative committee with cronies, sycophants and ideologues who could be trusted to spin a sanitized version of events that only a moron would believe. The whole manner in which the investigation was conducted tells us everything we need to know about the contempt the USG has for American people, their safety and security don’t make a damn bit of difference to the people in Washington. It’s a big joke.

Things are different in Russia, at least under Putin they are. And this explains why Putin’s public approval ratings are in the stratosphere, well above 80 percent even though the economy is still in the dumps.

But how can that be when all the brainiacs in the western media said his numbers would tank for standing up to the US in Ukraine?

It’s because the Russian people know he’s a straightshooter who puts the interests of his people above his own. It’s also because they understand that they are in a generation-long struggle with the US to maintain their sovereign independence and to create a multipolar world where one center of power does not dictate to others what they can and can’t do. They seem to grasp that the war on terror is really a war for global domination. They “get it”. Here’s Putin again:

“Terrorism is a growing threat today. The Afghanistan problem has not been resolved. The situation there is alarming and gives us no optimism, while some of the yet recently stable and rather well-doing countries in the Middle East and North Africa – Iraq, Libya and Syria – have now plunged into chaos and anarchy that pose a threat to the whole world.

We all know why that happened. We know who decided to oust the unwanted regimes and brutally impose their own rules. Where has this led them? They stirred up trouble, destroyed the country’s statehood, set people against each other, and then “washed their hands”, as we say in Russia, thus opening the way to radical activists, extremists and terrorists.” (“Russian President Vladimir Putin’s Annual Presidential Address”)

You see, this isn’t just about Turkey or Erdogan or even the downing of the Su-24. This is a full-blown war between Russia and the Terrorist States of America, the petri dish from whence this lethal virus has emerged and spread from North Africa, across the Middle East and deep into Central Asia. Putin, at great risk to himself and his country, has reluctantly taken on the task of fighting this noxious menace before it infects the entire world, and now others are following his lead.

Putin again: “The militants in Syria pose a particularly high threat for Russia. Many of them are citizens of Russia and the CIS countries. They get money and weapons and build up their strength. If they get sufficiently strong to win there, they will return to their home countries to sow fear and hatred, to blow up, kill and torture people. We must fight and eliminate them there, away from home.”

This isn’t a war Putin wants to fight. He was perfectly content selling gas and oil to the Europeans; raking in tons of money, rebuilding his country, beefing up Russian GDP, and watching while standards of living steadily improved. But what choice did he have? Washington decided that Putin’s dream of a free trade zone from Lisbon to Vladivostok –with oil and gas denominated in euros instead of the almighty dollar– was a threat to US dominance so they decided to put an end to it. They toppled the Moscow-friendly government in Ukraine and replaced it with a US-backed stooge, tried to torpedo Russia’s gas trade with the EU, and then spread the war to Syria by recruiting, arming, training, and funding fanatical mercenaries whose assignment was to topple Bashar al Assad and leave the state in Dresden-type ruination. Isn’t that Washington’s basic blueprint for success, destroy everything that can’t be used to increase its own stranglehold on power?

This is what makes Erdogan’s betrayal so bitter; it’s because Erdogan knows what Putin is doing in Syria. He’s not trying to recreate the Russian Empire. That’s baloney. He’s involved in an existential struggle for Russia’s survival. Erdogan knows that but, even so, he has thus aligned himself with Washington and entrusted his country’s future to an organization that is nothing more than a Mafia protection racket, NATO. Is it any wonder why Putin is pissed?

Here’s what needs to happen now: Erdogan needs to see that his dependence on the US and NATO is going to come at a very high cost for himself and his country, after all, Washington knows that they have Erdogan over a barrel and they will certainly exploit that in every way possible. For one thing, Erdogan will be expected to take orders from Washington just like all the other US puppets. He’s not going to like that.

Second, Turkey is not going to be the EU’s gas hub now that Putin has put the kibosh on Turkstream. The hostility between Turkey and Russia will likely impact Iran’s decision to use Turkey as a transit site for Iranian gas too. In other words, by refusing to apologize, Erdogan has compromised not only its country’s independence, but damaged its long-term economic prospects that are part-and-parcel of its advantageous strategic location which puts Turkey at the epicenter of the world, the de facto landbridge between Europe and Asia. Erdogan has sacrificed all that to preserve his felonious ISIS oil smuggling operation and to continue to support his loser-terrorist buddies that are decimating Syria.

All this could be reversed with a simple apology and by meeting Putin’s reasonable demands for making amends.

And what would Putin’s demands be?

Most likely, Putin would insist that Erdogan stop all support for anti-regime forces now operating in Syria. That’s number one.

Number two: Erdogan would be asked to actively and sincerely encourage leaders of the anti-regime militias to accept the terms of an immediate ceasefire and to participate in negotiations for a political settlement to the four and a half year-long war.

Putin has never lost sight of his primary goals which are to prevent regime change, to maintain the sovereign integrity of the state, and to kill or capture all terrorists operating in Syria. If Erdogan agreed to these terms, Putin will have achieved all of his objectives; displaced Syrians will be able to return home, life will gradually return to normal, and Peshkov will have gotten the justice he deserves.

MIKE WHITNEY lives in Washington state. He is a contributor to Hopeless: Barack Obama and the Politics of Illusion (AK Press). Hopeless is also available in a Kindle edition. He can be reached at [email protected].

(Republished from Counterpunch by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: Russia, Turkey 
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  1. Kiza says:

    Mike is a rare genius among the contemporary writers. Almost every sentence is this article is a gem, like this:

    The war on terror is not a scam to enhance presidential powers, to curtail civil liberties, to perpetuate America’s wars around the planet, and to reduce the public to quivering, malleable, propagandized imbeciles wailing for the protection of the all-powerful state.

    Or quoting Putin’s words:

    The terrorists must not be given refuge anywhere. There must be no double standards. No contacts with terrorist organizations. No attempts to use them for self-seeking goals.

    Have you ever thought what is Guantanamo for? Why not just kill the camp inmates, the US never hesitates to pulverise people? Guantanamo is a re-education concentration camp, where the former anti-US terrorists are turned into terrorists working for US interests.

    Finally, a note regarding Erdogan. After shooting down a Russian plane, he called for an emergency session of NATO as if Turkey was attacked by Russia and not the other way around. This exposes NATO for what is really is: a protection racket and an aggressive military organization set on ruling the World. The US will only keep increasing the role of NATO whilst trying to maintain its global dominance.

    • Agree: Orville H. Larson
  2. Priss Factor [AKA "The Priss Factory"] says: • Website

    “What Putin is doing is no different than”

    different from

    • Replies: @anon
  3. Putin is a third degree black belt in Judo. He is genuinely good. His degree is not just an empty symbolic honorary one. He is comfortable and competent on the mat, executes his throws with the ease of long familiarity.

    One of the practices I observed when playing Judo for a number of years was this: if during sparring, one competitor took advantage of or abused a smaller or lower ranking opponent it did not go unnoticed. Later in practice, as we all rotated partners, a more experienced guy would give the bully a thrashing. Always and without fail.

    In this way, we all looked out for each other and sadistic bullies were weeded out. Play hard, fine, but gratuitous violence was not tolerated. Judo is, after all, a sport (albeit a rough one).

    Putin will not allow this attack to go uncorrected. It is just not in his nature. Someone’s going to get thrown good and hard and the resounding thump will get the attention of everyone in the dojo.

    • Replies: @Orville H. Larson
  4. denk says:

    ap
    * the Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan or ‘TTP’ for short, a terrorist organization which repeatedly claims ties to the Afghan Taliban, is a fake group bred by the American intelligence community.

    According to the report, the CIA had a secret facility (until 2006) [1] near the main Guantanamo Bay prison, dubbed “Penny Lane“, where captured jihadists and fighters from Afghanistan were turned into double agents. This fundamentally required that those who agreed in being American spies would guarantee full cooperation in “killing terrorists” (or, in other words, targeting elements who are eyesore for the US).*

    [1]
    penny lane officially stop operation in 2006, officially thats is. 😉
    just like cia officially stopped supporting dalai lama in 1975, 😉
    murkka officially discontinue its bio weapon program in the 70’s 😉
    mkultra officially disbanded in the 70’s 😉
    ………..
    hehehe

    http://tribune-intl.com/did-the-cia-give-birth-to-the-ttp-at-penny-lane/

  5. denk says:

    * Was it just a coincidence that members of this long-term, NATO-sponsored, pan-Turkic paramilitary group, with direct connections to recent Turkish-linked terrorist atrocities in China and Thailand, were in the right place at the right time to kill the Russian pilot after he ejected?
    Was it just a coincidence that, within a couple of hours, Fox News and CNN reporters were there on the scene to interview this Turkish ‘Grey Wolf’ and broadcast him gloating about the murder of the Russian pilot, in doing so pushing Turkish/Russian relations past the point of no return?
    Is it just a coincidence that this is the second time in the last 18 months that a non-EU country on Russia’s border has seen its relationship with Russia destroyed over the shoot-down of a plane (MH17, previously) and promises of entry into the EU?
    Can it really be seen as a coincidence that, just a few days before the Turkish PM was scheduled to go to Brussels to talk about getting a €3billion hand out for dealing with Syrian refugees and fast-tracking the long-sought-after Turkish entry into the ‘elite’ EU club, someone shoots down a Russian bomber from Turkey, forcing the Turkish government to ‘own’ it and thereby destroying their relationship with Russia?

    [hint]
    the fundamental law of probability, the ian flaming’s rule
    once is accident, twice could be coincidence, thrice……enemy action !

    http://www.sott.net/article/307515-Russia-versus-NATOs-Gladio-2-0-Turkish-jihad-from-China-to-Syria

  6. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Priss Factor

    “The Priss Factory”

    Piss Factory

    • Agree: Kiza
    • Replies: @RobinG
    , @Priss Factor
  7. In fact, the whole smear campaign connecting Erdogan to the ISIS oil smuggling racket was designed to shame Erdogan into “doing the right thing” and apologizing for the downing of its Su-24 warplane

    Uh, Mike. If it’s the truth, it is by definition certainly NOT a smear. Dude. You’re supposed to be smarter than that. Meanwhile, here’s a whole lot more, sans moralizing:

    http://ronaldthomaswest.com/2015/11/29/whereas-the-enemy-of-your-friend-is-your-favorite-fk/

    Ahem, cough, no, I don’t have Tourette’s…

    • Replies: @Kiza
  8. RobinG says:
    @anon

    Yes! I love it.

    (Although with that punctiliousness, I thought she was channeling the Old Wizz.)

  9. Priss Factor [AKA "The Priss Factory"] says: • Website
    @anon

    Anon the Anus.

  10. Kiza says:
    @Ronald Thomas West

    Ronald, you are a bit harsh on Mike, me thinks. But, otherwise, it was great to see the photos of all these criminal heads of Western intelligence. Who knows, one day we may be looking at their mug shots, me hopes. But did you and I not agree that all Western intelligence services are the departments of the CIA: BND the most, then DGSE, then MI6 and in all other EU countries. Turkish MIT is not, it is just an errand boy. This control over the EU intelligence services is one of the methods of control over the EU “leaders” – even if any of the leaders were to get an idea of independence, “their” intelligence service would quickly bring them back into line. Therefore, Gerhard Schindler has probably been ordering Angela Merkel what to know and what to do, not the other way around.

    Despite all the spying of the Western intelligence services to help Al Qaeda and ISIS bring down the Syrian Government, this has not succeeded. As I wrote before, Al Qaeda and ISIS were rather enjoying the profits of the stolen Syrian oil then fighting the Syrian Government. This is why their government change operation in Syria has failed. Now the Western governments keep talking about the (70,000) imaginary “moderate rebels”, whilst only Erdogan appears stupid enough to send Turkish ground troops into Iraq and then into Syria. We will see what will happen to those Turkish troops which moved into Northern Iraq. This is helping separate Kurdish Northern Iraq from the Shiia-dominated government in Baghdad. In other words, the Turks are helping split the state of Iraq into statelets, intending the same for Syria.

    • Replies: @Ronald Thomas West
  11. @Kiza

    But did you and I not agree that all Western intelligence services are the departments of the CIA: BND the most, then DGSE, then MI6 and in all other EU countries

    Certainly we can and largely do agree on this. The point of my composition is to bring the heat according to what the structures are on paper. It’s an oblique or asymmetrical means of attacking the (unauthorized) criminal structures underpinning; if enough pressure can be brought according to how the structures are actually supposed to work, there should be attrition in both; the cowardly & corrupt political side, as well the invisible structure or deep state structure. Meanwhile, lay people (those not familiar with the spy-craft side) see the information and approach as quite straight-forward demand for putting things on track according to the rules. Here is the related approach:

    http://ronaldthomaswest.com/2015/12/02/letter-to-german-parliament-2-december-2015/

    ^

    • Agree: Kiza
  12. Kiza says:

    I sincerely recommend to everyone reading these comments to visit the above link to Ron’s open letter to 10 members of Bundestag. This letter is quite important for the following reasons:
    1) of all EU satellites of the Usrael, Germany has the best chance for winning independence,
    2) Germany still has a lively democracy with a true multi-party opposition, unlike the one-party-two-brand oligocracy and pretend democracy ruling in all Anglo countries,
    3) generally speaking, the Germans are skeptical people who do not always believe the MSM propaganda and so on.

    I strongly believe that Ron has taken the best possible course of action by writing to the German Parliament, to try bring to their attention the BND’s complicity in the sarin gas (WMD) attack on the Damascus suburb of Ghouta, a false-flag organized by the Turkish intelligence MIT, in which about 1,000 Syrian civilians died: http://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n08/seymour-m-hersh/the-red-line-and-the-rat-line. Who has known about this, when have they known and why did they not say it? At the time, Syria almost got bombed by NATO, which would have killed many additional thousands of Syrians, over and above the 250,000 killed so far by foreign meddling. If the Germans were to find a way to crack down on their BND, then they would stand a chance of winning their independence from Usrael.

    • Replies: @Avery
    , @Ronald Thomas West
  13. Avery says:
    @Kiza

    {in which about 1,000 Syrian civilians died:}

    Small quibble: Syrian civilians were murdered: they didn’t just die.

    Regarding Germany: I do not share your optimism.
    German collective guilt feeling for the Holocaust is so deep and wide, that they are happily self-servile to Israel, to presumably atone some more for what their Nazi predecessors did to Jews.

    Germany has built and gifted to Israel 6 ultra-quiet, ultra-modern diesel subs that carry Israel’s sea-borne nukes. There a lot of other tight military and civilian relationships between the two countries.

    Germans have been completely neutered.
    And they are voluntarily filling their country up with large numbers of future Islamists.
    The few Germans who raise a nationalist cry are shouted down as neo-Nazis.
    It is sad to see German people having been mentally paralyzed to that degree: it almost appears the German nation is committing collective suicide.
    Quite amazing, really.

    • Replies: @Kiza
  14. Kiza says:
    @Avery

    Yes, it was a pre-meditated, well planned murder of around 1,000 people by the Turkish intelligence, organized as a false-flag. This is so unpalatable that the official NATO version for the media is still that Assad did it, although there is not a single fact which points in his direction.

    Well, you certainly know Germany better than I do because you live there, if I remember correctly. And I have heard from some Germans about the German special subservience to Israel, both out of guilt and out of interest. Yet, I still hope that Germans may surprise everyone and find a spine for some independence.

    Thanks for the note.

    • Replies: @Avery
  15. @Kiza

    Hi Kiza

    Of course there will be people who will be dedicated to making it all about ‘everything, anything’ else. But in fact Germany makes sense for any number of reasons. Meanwhile I’ve created a better iteration of the letter for the general public:

    http://ronaldthomaswest.com/2015/12/07/send-a-letter/

    You (and anyone) are welcomed to spread the link, post it, email it, talk about it.

  16. Avery says:
    @Kiza

    {Well, you certainly know Germany better than I do because you live there, if I remember correctly.}

    No: I live in California.
    Armenian-American.

    My evaluation is based purely on observing news, commentary, etc from many sources.
    I could be completely off-base re Germany.
    Maybe some native Germans can comment on the situation in Germany.

    I too hope Germans find a spine: despite their descent into barbarity for a short period, they have given humanity quite a lot in arts, science, engineering, music,….
    It would be a shame if all that sank into an Islamist swamp and got lost forever.

    • Replies: @Ronald Thomas West
  17. @Avery

    I lived in Germany nearly five years (until two years ago.) Taught a semester at University of Mainz (adjunct professor) and lived two years in Berlin, including inside tour (not given to the general public) at the Reichstag. Still very much plugged into the scene.

    Germany is diverse, culturally and politically. Many of the local dialects of the language are unintelligible to speakers of other regional dialects and if you could get five Germans into a discussion without dissenting views and resultant arguments, it would be a miracle.

    The one thing that has kept Germany from imploding is the economy. It is the Merkel administration’s cynicism and hypocrisy in play here in a big way. Accepting hundreds of thousands of Syrians as refugees from a nation Germany has contributed to destroying plays in the aging German demographic; where the Syrians who could make it to Europe are largely the educated, and consequently had resources enough to make the journey. They are little more than a stop-gap measure to fill in the work force, come from what had been a secular state and for the most part will integrate without problems.

    Insofar as Israel, the younger German generation feels that debt is past; many hold the view what happened had not been initiated by them and they don’t believe they should be held accountable.

    There is a neo-nazi element in economically depressed eastern areas but the real Nazi legacy & sentiment that remains is largely concentrated in the south; and it is not driven by economic conditions but rather is affluent and inter-generational (like father, like son.) These people are aligned with and vote for the CSU (Christian Social Union) and are a major prop in Merkel’s government. If that doesn’t make sense to someone who sees Germany as a sycophant to Israel, it’s because political bedfellows can be strange alliances in any case. They sing the ‘everyone loves Israel’ tune because they learned to do that as a matter of survival. Now it is a matter of both; habit and business. German armaments sales are a big deal, as well a sort of ‘pragmatic’ approach is necessary so as not to irritate the USA. All that said, a lot of Germans have matured and no longer want anything to do with ‘nationalist ignorance’ and related anti-Semites (and they are smart enough to separate anti-Semitism from Israeli policies and politics they don’t like.)

    Germany could be a different player overnight, with just a nudge, in different conditions. We might see that.

    • Replies: @Kiza
  18. @Threecranes

    “Putin will not allow this attack to go uncorrected. It is just not in his nature. Someone’s going to get thrown good and hard and the resounding thump will get the attention of everyone in the dojo.”

    I certainly agree that Vlad’s got to put some kind of hurtin’ on Turkey’s ass. Hit a military target, hit ’em with serious sanctions–it’s Vlad’s call. There are times when one must “send a message,” as it were. . . .

  19. Kiza says:
    @Ronald Thomas West

    I was hoping that someone would write a more encouraging view of Germany. I did live in Germany myself for a short period of time and many years ago. Germany and Germans both impressed me and repulsed me (don’t they always do both). Also, I really liked Ronald’s more recent insights from Germany. He returned to me my prior belief that German independence is a matter of years, maybe up to one decade.

    As to East and South German neo-Nazis being bed-fellows with Israel, we observe almost exactly the same in Ukraine. Ukrainian Nazis fight in batallions organized and paid by Zionist oligarchs and call Putin a Jew and the Russians the Jewish collaborators. Could it get any more surreal then this? Could we imagine if the Jews killed in concentration camps by the Nazis could wake up today and see the contemporary reality of the neo-Nazis and the Zionists as bedfellows for profit and conquest, whilst still talking the old anti- talk!

    Germany could be a different player overnight, with just a nudge, in different conditions. We might see that.

    This is what I believed, before Avery crushed my enthusiasm a little (lol). I am sincerely glad that Ronald has created this good initiative. I believe that it is more likely to succeed then the other initiative here on unz.com to support the Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard’s resolution to stop government change in Syria. The US “lawmakers” are in a steel-firm grip of the Zionists and only a financial collapse of the US could release them. The system is so bent that there is nothing that could be done within the system which could return US back to the control of the US citizens (most of who have been brainwashed anyway). Therefore, in my view, the independence of Germany is a better prospect.

    German independence may come too late for Syria, but it will not be too late for the next Zionist victim and never too late to prevent a possible total nuclear war.

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