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Lifting the Lockdown; Easy Does It
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Can we admit that we were wrong? Can we admit that the coronavirus is not going to kill “hundreds of thousands or even millions” of Americans? Can we admit that the public health system is not going to buckle and collapse? Can we admit that we fashioned our public policy on flawed computer models that proved utterly worthless? Can we admit that the number of people infected is significantly larger than the official numbers? Can we admit that the percentage of fatalities is going to be significantly lower? Can we admit that the majority of people who have died are over 60 with serious underlying conditions like high-blood pressure, diabetes, obesity etc? Can we admit that there is no “historical scientific basis” for using “lockdowns” to fight a pandemic? Can we admit that “social distancing”, “shelter in place”, “self isolation” and “self quarantine” are arbitrary directives aimed at social control and not science-based remedies derived from serious research? Can we admit that the new data and the hard science do not support the existing policy but suggest that savaging civil liberties, decimating the economy and keeping the entire population in a perennial state of hysteria, is a gross overreaction that has done incalculable damage to the country, to our economic well-being, and to our tattered credibility as a responsible nation?

The bottom line is this: The data and the science do not support the current policy. That alone should give us pause.

The lockdown was conjured up by made-for-TV infectious disease experts who based their recommendations on the results of discredited computer models that don’t square with reality. In short, their calculations were wrong, thus, the policy they cobbled together, is also wrong. This is not a liberal vs conservative issue. This is not a Democrat vs Republican issue. The issue is whether policy should be shaped by data and science or by fake computer models and the relentless fearmongering of the media. That is the heart of the matter. Check out this clip from an article by Dr. Scott W. Atlas:

“Tens of thousands of Americans have died, and Americans are now desperate for sensible policymakers who have the courage to ignore the panic and rely on facts. Leaders must examine accumulated data to see what has actually happened, rather than keep emphasizing hypothetical projections; combine that empirical evidence with fundamental principles of biology established for decades; and then thoughtfully restore the country to function….

Vital population immunity is prevented by total isolation policies, prolonging the problem….We know from decades of medical science that infection itself allows people to generate an immune response — antibodies — so that the infection is controlled throughout the population by “herd immunity.” Indeed, that is the main purpose of widespread immunization in other viral diseases — to assist with population immunity. In this virus, we know that medical care is not even necessary for the vast majority of people who are infected. It is so mild that half of infected people are asymptomatic,… By transmitting the virus to others in the low-risk group who then generate antibodies, they block the network of pathways toward the most vulnerable people, ultimately ending the threat. Extending whole-population isolation would directly prevent that widespread immunity from developing.”(“The data is in — stop the panic and end the total isolation”, The Hill)

Think about that. He’s not just saying that the lockdown is preventing low-risk people from developing the antibodies they need to fend-off the infection, he’s also saying that the policy is actually putting vulnerable people more at risk. Isn’t that worth mulling over?

The virus isn’t something we choose or don’t choose, and it’s certainly not something that can be avoided by bolting the door and hiding under the bed. There are only two paths to immunity: Vaccine or the natural immune response of antibodies. That’s it! There is no third path. Self quarantine is not a solution, at best it’s a temporary fix. Eventually, everyone will have to emerge from their respective spider-holes and reenter the real world. What other choice is there?

Have you wondered how the government will respond to a second or third wave of the virus if there’s another outbreak next fall or spring? Do you think they’ll shut down the economy, send millions of workers home, and burn through another $8 trillion or so a second time around?

Hell no. That was a “one shot deal” and they blew it. They could have settled on a less expensive, less radical policy that kept parts of the economy open while younger, low-risk workers continued at their jobs gradually building up their immunity they’d for future outbreaks. Instead, they bet the farm on their goofy shelter-in-place theory and came up snake-eyes. That means the next time the virus hits, most people will have to suck it up and go to work or stay at home until the money runs out.

It makes you wonder why the media has been so critical of Sweden’s approach, when they clearly settled on a strategy that not only saves lives without shutting everything down, but their plan also doesn’t break the bank. The fact is, they got it right and we got it wrong. At the same time, according to CNBC, “Sweden’s chief epidemiologist said….that “herd immunity” could be reached in the capital Stockholm in a matter of weeks,” which means the majority of the people will have developed at least some immunity to the virus by mid-May. In contrast, the Trump administration’s projections were way off, the economy has been put on ice, and self isolation has prevented healthy people from developing the antibodies they need to achieve some partial immunity to the infection. If we were keeping score, the US would be deep in the red, but this isn’t a competition. It’s a struggle to find a smart and sustainable policy that saves lives while avoiding a second Great Depression.

The economy isn’t a lite switch that can be turned on and off. It is a complex ecosystem that creates a myriad of tiny niches where people can eke out a living by providing services and products that the public wants. The lockdown has dealt a deathblow to that fragile system. Along with the millions of people who are now headed for the unemployment lines, the lockdown has taken a sledgehammer to the thousands of small and mid-sized businesses that are the very heart and soul of the country. Many of these businesses will be unable to muddle through the protracted freeze, and will be forced to draw the blinds and call it quits. That’s going to be devastating for the country and for the thousands of small towns that owe their survival to the revenues produced by these small businesses. It’s going to change everything; where people work, where people shop, and where people call home.

Aside from the pain that will be inflicted on businesses and workers, you can bet that elites will use the crisis to impose another version of the “Shock Doctrine” just like they did following the 2008 meltdown. That means more consolidation, more privatization, more austerity, more cuts to social programs, fewer public services, much higher unemployment and an explosion of homelessness, hunger, alcoholism, drug abuse, crime and social unrest. You know the drill.

They’ll point to the widening deficits and demand more belt-tightening for the proles and more zero rates and multi-trillion dollar liquidity injections for Wall Street. They’ll use the debt as an excuse to restructure the labor force just like Obama’s chief economic advisor Lawrence Summers did following the last crisis. Summers slashed the fiscal stimulus in half in order to produce a sluggish, under-performing, permanently-stagnant economy (1 to 2% GDP) that kept a thumb on wages (to prevent inflation) so that interest rates could be kept at zero indefinitely while trillions of dollars were pumped into the financial markets. That’s how the system was set up. The Fed launched three iterations of QE to keep Wall Street’s coffers brimming while working people experienced the weakest recovery in the post-war era. Meanwhile homeless camps popped up in cities across the country and long-term unemployment forced 35% of the workforce into low paying, no benefits, service sector jobs in the so-called “gig” economy. This is how Summers deftly restructured the labor force without anyone even noticing.

Check out this clip from an article written in 2016 by the world Socialist Web Site:

“The proportion of contingent workers holding multiple jobs has more than quadrupled over the past 10 years, from 7.3 percent in 2005 to 32 percent in 2015. Nearly one-third of people working with no benefits or job security are holding down an additional part-time or full-time job just to make ends meet.” (“The social crisis and the US elections”, World Socialist Web Site)

This is what “restructuring the labor force” looks like in real time. It’s no accident, in fact, these stealth attacks on labor were first pioneered in Japan where an estimated 40% of the workforce is currently employed in part-time, multiple-job, sweatshop-like drudgery while the Bank of Japan continues to load up on government bonds and other financial assets to boost stock prices for the investor class. Can you see the pattern here? Here’s more from an article at investing.com:

“A new study by economists from Harvard and Princeton indicates that 94% of the 10 million new jobs created during the Obama era were temporary positions. The study shows that the jobs were temporary, contract positions, or part-time “gig” jobs in a variety of fields….The disappearance of conventional full-time work, 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. work, has hit every demographic. “Workers seeking full-time, steady work have lost,” said Krueger.” (“Nearly 95% of all new jobs during Obama era were part-time, or contract”, investing.com)

Virtually all the jobs created under Obama were shi**y, low-paying, service sector jobs with no health care, no sick leave and no retirement. At the same time, more than 500,000 good paying government jobs were slashed in order to trim budgets and enforce the belt-tightening regime that is crucial part of this upward wealth transfer swindle. Check out this graph from the Streetlight Blog which sums up Obama’s dismal record in one chart:

The point is this: The restructuring of the labor market was all by design. The plan was implemented during the recovery phase following the last crisis just as a new version will be implemented following this crisis. It’s all part of the elitist gameplan for crushing labor. Meanwhile, corporate profits will continue to soar, stocks will climb even higher, and the wealth gap will widen into a gaping chasm the size of the Grand Canyon.

This is why we need to restart the economy ASAP, because elites are going to use the crisis to push their own screw-the-worker agenda. Beyond that, however, remains the simple fact that the policy does not fit the science. For example, this is from the Miami Herald:

“About 6 percent of Miami-Dade’s population — about 165,000 residents — have antibodies indicating a past infection by the novel coronavirus, dwarfing the state health department’s tally of about 10,600 cases, according to preliminary study results announced by University of Miami researchers Friday” (“Miami-Dade has tens of thousands of missed coronavirus infections, UM survey finds”, Miami Herald)

So there have been 287 deaths in Miami-Dade county while over 165,000 residents have already had the virus. That’s a Fatality Rate of 0.17% which means that roughly 2 in every 1,000 people will die. 2 deaths per thousand does not warrant shutting down the entire economy.

Here’s more from the research team at Accelerated Urgent Care in Bakersfield, California.Take a look:

“In Kern County, we’ve tested, 5,213 people and we have 340 positive COVID cases. Well that’s 6.5 percent of the population. Which would indicate a widespread viral infection similar to the flu,” Dr. Erickson said. “…that (suggests that) 12 percent of Californian’s were positive for COVID.”

Erickson said that the original projections of millions of deaths from COVID were “woefully inaccurate” and were not materializing. By Ericson’s calculations, California–which has a population of roughly 40 million, probably has 4.7 million positive cases presently. With the current number of deaths currently at 1,227, that puts the Fatality Rate at 0.03.

“Does that (low death rate) necessitate sheltering in place? Does that necessitate shutting down medical systems? Does that necessitate being out of work?” Erickson asked. Nationwide, about 42,000 people have died of coronavirus as of Wednesday. Between 30,000 and 60,000 die of flu annually, Erickson said, citing CDC data.” (“Video: Dr. Erickson COVID-19: Does This Make Sense? Are We Following Science?”, Global Research)

In New York, Governor Andrew Cuomo reported similar results from random testing conducted recently in New York state. Here’s an excerpt from an article at RT:

“Early antibody testing for the coronavirus in 19 New York counties suggests up to 2.7 million people could have been infected in the state alone, meaning the real death rate may be much lower, Governor Andrew Cuomo has revealed. Results from a random testing sample of 3,000 New Yorkers have revealed that some 13.9 percent of state residents have likely had and recovered from the coronavirus…

The new numbers indicate that this revised infection rate, compared to 15,740 deaths linked to coronavirus statewide, points to a fatality rate of only about 0.5 – much lower than previously believed…” (“MILLIONS infected? Cuomo says NY antibody tests suggest Covid-19 less fatal than previously thought”, RT)

So, even in New York, the epicenter of the pandemic, the actual fatality rate is significantly lower than suggested by the “confirmed COVID cases” which feature prominently on TVs across America. (New York’s fatality rate of 0.5 is slightly higher than the rate of 0.37% reported recently from a study in Germany, and similar to the findings from other tests conducted in others in Santa Clara, Los Angeles and Sweden. All of these studies indicate that the fatality rate from COVID is much lower than the official case fatality rate of about 13% in the UK, Italy and France, which is a gross overestimate used to hoodwink the sheeple.)

So we know that the official numbers are misleading and that the percentage of people who will die is going to be much smaller than originally projected, but is that enough to change the policy and end the lockdown?

Yes, it is. The policy should be tailored to fit the data. If the fatality rate is roughly one-half of 1 percent, then we need to reconsider our approach and make the necessary adjustments..

Easy Does It– The Lockdown must be lifted gradually

According to Senior Swedish epidemiologist and former Chief Scientist of the European Center for Disease Prevention and Control, Johan Giesecke, the lockdown cannot be terminated all at once or there will be a dramatic spike in cases a few weeks later.

“You have to step down the ladder one rung at a time”… (Giesecke thinks that reopening the schools should come first.)

So, slowly ease up on the lockdown and gradually allow people to get back to work. That sounds like sound advice to me.

NOTES–

1– Why lockdowns are the wrong policy – Swedish expert Prof. Johan Giesecke, Lockdown TV

2– Bakersfield doctors dispute need for stay-at-home order, Bakersfield Now Hour-long interview, Doctors Dan Erickson and Artin Massihi of Accelerated Urgent Care

https://bakersfieldnow.com/news/coronavirus/accelerated-urgent-care-provides-statistical-update-on-covid-19

 
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  1. Thanks. You may have weakened your case by taking as an authority the Woos-Woos, the WSWS, the Trotsyists opposed to the existence of any nation-state, but your case remains strong.

    • Replies: @Wielgus
  2. As an endangered species, it is unlikely that I will immediately heed the lifting of the lockdown. As an engangered species, I DID NOT NEED a lockdown. I/we chose to sequester ourselves before all this lockdown stuff became a political fad.

    The damage has been done to our younger and more precariously positioned friends. Jobs lost. Lives interrupted. Their calculus would be very different than ours. And this talk of being careful, the nTH wave, etc. doesn’t change their risk profiles. It just prolongs their suffering in my humble opinion.

    • Replies: @450.org
  3. This is as good a case as can be made against lockdowns. The problem is that both neoliberals and the Left see plenty of advantage in continuing the lockdowns as long as possible: neoliberals because of the reasons Whitney gives above (disaster capitalism plus removing Trump) and the Left because they think that a crisis could mean a permanent shift to the left in public policy and opinion.

    Now the neoliberals are just sociopaths, but the Left do have an argument – the problem is the likelihood of that (welcome) shift to the left on economic policy (massive infrastructure spending, UBI, M4A, etc) can’t be higher than 25% so they are playing a very dangerous game. My reason for giving them only a 25% chance is that the leadership of the western world in both private and public institutions is utterly dominated by corporate loons who will use every lever they can to turn this economic crisis to their advantage and they have won every battle since the 1940’s. Yes, there will be a public opinion shift on those core left-economic issues but it won’t find viable leaders or organizations to effectuate it (they have been taken over by woke capitalists).

    • Replies: @Kim
    , @Reg Cæsar
    , @Bill
    , @obwandiyag
  4. Sean says:

    “Sweden’s chief epidemiologist said….that “herd immunity” could be reached in the capital Stockholm in a matter of weeks,”

    It could have assuming Swedes were not going to be more cautious on their own account. Yet such an assumption was silly because Swedes are not going to just behave normally when they hear about a killer disease on the way for a month before it arrives. In a modern media infodemic the behaviour of humans is altered and herd immunity by any means but mass vaccination is greatly retarded. All in all, there is not that much difference between the options available to government. Because vaccination can go very wrong the safety testing will have to be exhaustive and we are talking about a year at least. So there will be another lockdown if there is a second wave, and massive taxing of the wealthy to pay for would be inevitable. Look at the extremely high US taxes that Roosevelt brought in and remained in place for fifty years.

    The supply chains and productive capacity that have been outsourced will return because, to take a paradigmatic case, a modern so called advanced economy finding itself in a situation where the 3M head office in Minnesota is making profits that are lightly taxed while having its factory in Singapore make medical quality masks that the US government cannot access in timely fashion is something that happened once already. It will never be allowed to happen again.

    The point is this: The restructuring of the labor market was all by design. The plan was implemented during the recovery phase following the last crisis just as a new version will be implemented following this crisis

    Trump is a man without principles, so given a choice to keep on being Herbert Hoover or switch to being Roosevelt I think the Donald will turn on his own class, who never trusted or wanted him a president in the first place for that reason. They know Trump is about to make a massive raid on their wealth greater than even Warren was planning, which is why the billionaires and their media lickspittles will do their utmost against him winning a second term.

  5. “Can we admit that we were wrong?”

    I didn’t know that you were among those who are to blame for the lockdowns, Mike. I assumed that you weren’t one of the morally retarded lunatics who issued the proclamations.

    • Agree: follyofwar
    • Replies: @follyofwar
    , @Arnieus
  6. @Twodees Partain

    Exactly! I refuse to take collective responsibility for a policy I had nothing to do with. Otherwise, a well-written, informative article.

    • Agree: Twodees Partain
  7. Kim says:
    @blank-misgivings

    shift to the left on economic policy (massive infrastructure spending, UBI, M4A, etc) ….. the leadership of the western world in both private and public institutions is utterly dominated by corporate loons who will use every lever they can to turn this economic crisis to their advantage and they have won every battle since the 1940’s.

    You seem to be implying that this crisis was some kind of accident. And that there was not already in existence some plan to make use of it. Alright, I suppose that the truth about that hardly matters.

    But the idea that there is any “left” or “right” in all of this or that there is any border between public and private institutions, well, that’s just not the case. Nor is it the case that the powers that be will have to wonder or debate how they should “respond” to the crisis.

    They do not need to decide how they will respond because the plan is always the same: to centralize more power. Whether it was Oklahoma City, 2001, 9/11, the Boston bombing, the GFC, and now the Great Plague, the response is always the same – no alternatives are ever considered.

    This is why we are absolutely certain to get UBI: because it will be greatest force for the centralization of power, fine-grained population control, and complete surveillance in the history of the world.

    UBI = cashless society = end of right to the fruits of one’s own labor/slavery + total control and surveillance.

    People criticize China’s social credit system. UBI and the end of cash will make that look like a joke.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  8. Wielgus says:
    @Ann Nonny Mouse

    My reading of WSWS reactions is not that they are against lockdowns – if anything they seem to regard back-to-work pressure as some sort of bourgeois attempt to kill off the workers. At times at least they have been sustaining some of the more hysterical interpretations of what the virus is liable to do.

    • Replies: @Wielgus
    , @The Thin Man
  9. Gast [AKA "Gast (noch immer)"] says:

    Will Ron Unz apologize for his silly fear-mongering? Remember that article about that woman who allegedly saved the lives of “millions” of Americans by shutting down California? Will martial-art-fag Anatoly Karlin, who was especially obnoxious with his stupid hysteria, be shunned from now on?

    No, these individuals will preach about every subject with the same arrogance in the future. In this respect this publication resembles very much the MSM. No self-awareness, no memory, no responsibility.

  10. utu says:

    More demagoguery from Mike Whitney. Quit the cancer treatment in the middle because you did not get worse as they told you would w/o the treatment. Stop washing hands since you do not see anybody getting sick from unwashed hands. Stop lockdown since not that many people are dying. Sad.

    • Agree: Saggy
    • Troll: Johnny Walker Read
    • Replies: @ploni almoni
    , @Greg Bacon
  11. Alfred says:

    “Sweden’s chief epidemiologist said that “herd immunity” could be reached in the capital Stockholm in a matter of weeks,” which means the majority of the people will have developed at least some immunity to the virus by mid-May.

    Mike Whitney’s interpretation of what the epidemiologist said is incorrect.

    Herd immunity can develop when only 20% of the population has been infected and has antibodies. It all depends on who gets infected. Ideally, if there is no lockdown, those at most risk will get infected first – those that deal with the public, school kids and so on. Once these people are immune, there is no way for the virus to bypass them to infect the less sociable.

    In China as a whole, I suspect that only 10% of the population has antibodies. In Wuhan, it may be 20%. I have no proof but that is my guesstimate. Nevertheless, despite these low percentages, there are essentially no new cases in China.

    Of course, the stupidity continues as there is no need for masks. 🙁

    China: All coronavirus patients in Wuhan discharged

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  12. Exile says:

    We live in a low-trust society. We don’t believe experts, media, government or our own lying eyes half of the time. In this kind of environment, it’s frankly pointless for partisans of either side of the Corona response debate to act as if those who disagree are patently irrational idiots who’re falling for whatever variation of false-flagging they’re on about.

    In our modern information marketplace, the more significant the event the less we can depend on our available information. Ron Unz has done a good job of assembling a group of alternative voices here but none of them has access to information that’s verifiable and comprehensive enough to make a convincing case for any of their various positions.

    Heed Taleb’s advice from Anti-Fragile about signal-to-noise ratio worsening as the timeliness and quantity of information increases. All these daily work-in-progress prognostications are the equivalent of retail investors over-reacting to the hour-by-hour gyrations of the market.

    This event will only be understood, and imperfectly at that, in hindsight. It’s charitable to call most of this prognostication an “educated” guess at this point.

    • Agree: James Stark, Spanky
    • Replies: @Arnieus
    , @Dave Bowman
  13. @blank-misgivings

    …and they have won every battle since the 1940’s.

    Well, they’ve got civil rights and immigration “reform”, plus evolution into and prayer out of the schools. None of this was supported by the common man.

    And it’s always the local baker, not the big box, that is forced to bake the lavender wedding cake.

  14. Alfred says:
    @Sean

    a modern so called advanced economy finding itself in a situation where the 3M head office in Minnesota is making profits that are lightly taxed while having its factory in Singapore make medical quality masks that the US government cannot access in timely fashion is something that happened once already. It will never be allowed to happen again.

    You assume that politicians act for the common good – for their constituents. But when is the last time they did that?

    I am not saying that they are stupid or irrational, but I am saying that they are corrupt.

    3M might move the manufacturing to Indonesia and everyone will be happy. Wages are a bit too high in Singapore anyway. The ethnic Chinese who are partners in the Singapore venture may have cousins in Indonesia – I am hypothesizing.

    • Replies: @Really No Shit
  15. thordaddy says:

    The main issue is that there is no “we.” It’s us and them.

  16. Bas says:

    Wrong or right, corona is my virus! This little darling of many politicians did the thing they promised. It is here to stay for generations to come.

  17. Wielgus says:
    @Wielgus

    https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/04/27/euco-a27.html

    ‘Workers must reject this false choice between working and dying in a pandemic and starving in confinement, or the claim that mass deaths are now inevitable. Modern science and technology make it possible to let masses of workers shelter at home, receiving the necessary food and medicine, while scientists work on vaccines and treatments for COVID-19. However, this will require the expropriation of the massive sums of money looted from public treasuries by the financial aristocracy and a political struggle to bring down reactionary governments across Europe and fight to transfer power to the working class.’

    It seems to me that ‘masses of workers’ sheltering might depend on other masses of workers delivering them food and medication.
    Also the mentioned political struggle would involve coming out of lockdown.

  18. wils says:

    This charade has nothing to do with ‘made for TV’ scientists following a mistaken model, rather with Talmudists vs. the world. It’s their virus. Israel thinks it can lie forever. It’s all a plandemic, designed to stampede us into being chipped and traced like the farm animals they see us as, plus destroy all small businesses and all middle classes leaving all money and political power in the hands of the Talmudists (see Bernanke efforts at same). See the preparatory psyop, the movie, ‘Contagion.’

    • Agree: Alfred, 2stateshmustate
  19. @Gast

    “Will Ron Unz apologize for his silly fear-mongering?”

    This is a trick question, right?

  20. Policies in relation to the virus are “keeping the entire population in a perennial state of hysteria”? Really? Everyone’s perennially hysterical? Seems to me more like there’s some anxiety, but loads of frustrated boredom, since the virtual online world now being so enthusiastically touted as a comfort for lockdown is a pitiful substitute for the real world, where the healthiest environments, such as beaches and national parks, are now denied to us.

  21. Alfred says:
    @Gast

    They will all claim that it was because of the lockdown that the virus vanished. You cannot ever win with these people. They control the Overton window of discussion. I must confessed that I am very disappointed with Mr Unz. I think he deleted a lengthy comment I made that had several pertinent charts with links to source data. 🙁

    • Agree: 2stateshmustate
    • Replies: @Johnny Smoggins
    , @bjondo
  22. gotmituns says:

    I’m working here in the people’s republic of new jersey to lift this stinking un- constitutional lockdown.

    • Replies: @Dudebro8899
  23. The lockdown was conjured up by made-for-TV infectious disease experts who based their recommendations on the results of discredited computer models that don’t square with reality.

    Some people want their day in the sun, and exaggerating a crisis and their importance in controlling it are time-tested means for full exposure. The question now is whether they all go willingly back into their holes, or do we get more of the same for the next couple of years.

  24. Realist says:

    Can we admit that the coronavirus is not going to kill “hundreds of thousands or even millions” of Americans?

    Can we admit that the coronavirus is not going to kill “millions or even hundreds of thousands” of Americans?

    FIFY

    But I do agree with your premise that the Covid-19 reaction was overwrought and extremely stupid.

  25. Ron Unz says:

    Well, the issue of when and how to relax the current lockdowns, whether on the West Coast or elsewhere, is certainly a complex matter, which experts are currently debating.

    But since I expect that this article will attract lots of the many Flu Hoaxers who hang around this website, mostly I think because they’ve been banned everywhere else, I’d like to bring some important information to their attention…

    There’s obviously a lot of both over-counting and under-counting of Coronavirus deaths, so the most solid statistic to look at is the *total* weekly death rate, and compare the figure with the normal ones for particular countries or cities. The Financial Times just came out with an important article in that regard that contains some very telling charts:

    https://www.ft.com/content/6bd88b7d-3386-4543-b2e9-0d5c6fac846c

    Looking at these, if I didn’t know any better, I’d think that there was some epidemic of a fairly dangerous disease sweeping through those locations.

    Now most estimates are that the Coronavirus only has a 1% fatality rate, lower for younger people and higher for older people. But when you multiple 1% by a pretty big population, you get a pretty big number.

  26. Thomasina says:

    I think “they” have known all along that this virus did not merit shutting down the economy, but the globalist financial system needed some much-needed oxygen before it rolled over on its back, so they used the virus as an excuse to inject the financial fuel.

    Can you imagine handing out free money (billions and billions) to hedge funds, multinational corporations and bailing out junk bond holders without this pandemic? The people would have been in an uproar.

    But because it was done out of “necessity”, because of the pandemic shutdown, few people are the wiser.

    The media did their job. They created panic in the public, implored them to concentrate on their own survival, while taking their minds off the looting.

    Once everything is settled and all the elite players have sufficiently fed at the trough, all of a sudden we will hear, “Okay, we think we’ve finally won this war, and you can all go back to work now.”

    There must be a lot of laughing in corporate boardrooms! “Can you believe how they all fell in line? Ha ha ha.”

    • Agree: St-Germain, jsinton
    • Replies: @Kim
  27. @Ron Unz

    In most of the country, there is no really no tight “lockdown” except for churches and small and medium businesses.

    For example, one of the northeast’s largest health care conglomerates, UPMC, has effectively told the state to go screw itself; they’re going to start doing elective surgeries again soon whether Pennsylvania’s government likes it or not.

    But small and medium businesses don’t have the institutional lobbying clout to do things like that. And God help those of us who actually are religious.

    I’m not a Flu Hoaxer, and my comments prove it. I am, however, going to keep speaking the truth about this “lockdown,” which is that everything Whitney says about its economic effects is true: it isn’t going to hurt the big boys. The peasants of flyover country are going to pay.

    With all due respect, I don’t see how your numbers dispute that. And I would like to point out that Whitney is not claiming the flu is a hoax, nor he is even saying it isn’t a pandemic.

    Finally, Deb Birx’s recent statement that we may have all of us to do “social distancing” all summer is absolutely outrageous.

  28. Alfred says:
    @Ron Unz

    In any flu pandemic, there are areas that are more thoroughly trashed than others. That is normal. The only meaningful way of working out excess mortality is by using the numbers for a whole country and to compare it to previous years.

    The fake numbers out of New York are only applicable to New York. Extrapolating these numbers to the other 300+ million people in the USA is not even funny. That is not the way infections work.

    Why is it that we hear no more about Italy?

    Why is it the virus was only active in a small part of that country?

    Were the hundreds of thousands who fled away from Lombardy all infection-free?

    Everyone knows that the health systems in the south of Italy are decrepit when compared to industrialized Lombardy.

    • Replies: @Johnny Rico
  29. Emslander says:
    @Ron Unz

    Most estimates now point to a .5% fatality rate and the estimates are dropping as the number of people showing infection to the virus increases with testing. Germany’s is .37%. California is probably going to come in at .1%, which is one tenth of the number you started out with.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  30. thordaddy says:
    @Ron Unz

    As was done with “AIDS,” those “spikes” could very well be homicides/suicides/ODs, etc. caused by an abrupt economic shutdown/delayed financial relief and given cover by “COVID-19” designations.

    Basically, a mass murder/suicide made to look like a random annihilation event.

    • Replies: @refl
  31. Kim says:
    @Thomasina

    There must be a lot of laughing in corporate boardrooms! “Can you believe how they all fell in line? Ha ha ha.”

    Their laughter is my despair. Since it started, I have been agog at the NPC-level stupidity and the craven obedience of the populace.

    Alongside that I have been sickened and revolted by the self-defined intellectuals and know-it-alls – heavily represented at Unz – who fell over themselves and would have pushed grandmothers out of their wheelchairs and children onto train tracks to grab the chance to preen and pose and make supercilious statements about how the uneducated plebs and trough-eaters just don’t understand the oh-so-very sophisticated models.

    It has been a vomitous display of everything that is wrong with human societies.

    It is like watching a performance of a commedia dell’arte – that most cynical of dramatic forms. The entire performance is well known, its every character stock, its every plot twist a cliche, it offers no surprises and we the audience don’t want it to.

    This worldwide, simultaneous, simulcast performance of the commedia “The Rona” has had everything: confused and gullible peasants. greedy doctors, crudely ambitious politicians, scheming servants, foolish pastors, ignorant experts, and of course, most of all masks, masks, and more masks.

    From wikipedia:

    The characters of the commedia usually represent fixed social types and stock characters, such as foolish old men, devious servants, or military officers full of false bravado.[6][11] The characters are exaggerated “real characters”, such as a know-it-all doctor called Il Dottore, a greedy old man called Pantalone, or a perfect relationship like the Innamorati.[5]

    • Agree: Hippopotamusdrome
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Thomasina
  32. Globalists used chingchongwuhan sniffles–far less lethal than the average seasonal flu–to wreck the world economy to stop Trump.

    Trump being Trump helped them do it.

    We were told openly that all deaths are now labeled as chingchangvirus-related, whether the dead were tested or not.

    Even faked, corona numbers remain low!

    #coronahoax is officially The Greatest Lie Ever Told, dwarfing certain aspects of the Holocaust narrative as we are all witnessing the former in real time, observing the lack of evidence.

  33. Ron Unz says:
    @Emslander

    Most estimates now point to a .5% fatality rate and the estimates are dropping as the number of people showing infection to the virus increases with testing. Germany’s is .37%. California is probably going to come in at .1%, which is one tenth of the number you started out with.

    IFR=0.5% is reasonably plausible, and in fact I had been moving in that direction until the NYC numbers recently came out, indicating an IFR above 1%. At this stage, there’s still a great deal of uncertainty, but anything between 0.5% and 1+% seems very possible.

    However, a fatality rate of 0.1% in California or anywhere else is just total garbage. I assume you’re relying upon those two very poorly done studies that indicated absurdly high infection rates in Santa Clara County (where I live) and LA, and which have already been totally debunked. People just desperately want to believe certain things and grab onto any incorrect bit of info supports that position. One suspicious element of those “studies” is that they were apparently partly funded by a business lobbying group, which may have its own reasons for persuading people that the virus really isn’t all that dangerous.

    I’m not going to waste my time arguing with the people here, but I just wanted to try to bring the important FT article to their attention.

    • Replies: @Emslander
    , @Kim
    , @utu
  34. @Alfred

    You might want to use a more current graphic.

    The United States on average has 3 people per 1000 tested positive.
    New York City is 18.5/1000. I think California is 1.1/1000.

    They think the real numbers infected are 5 to 10 times those numbers.

    • Replies: @Alfred
  35. BuelahMan says:

    So, how long will it take for others to realize that this shutdown was orchestrated intentionally. The jewish bankers and Big Money needed the bailout and boy ole boy did THEY get it. Whereas you and I got the one time pittance AND lost our jobs.

    Now, when we realize the death rate is less than 1% (Ron’s number above), perhaps as low as .03%, what will we do?

    Nothing. Because then we will have had to bail them out because it would ruin the economy to NOT do so.

    Lemmings.

  36. anon[392] • Disclaimer says:

    The lockdown was conjured up by made-for-TV infectious disease experts who based their recommendations on the results of discredited computer models that don’t square with reality.

    It wasn’t “conjured up by [TV-experts]”.

    China went into lockdown first. China set the tone. Nobody had to conjure up anything. They merely pointed to China and said “Look!”.

    What is the role of China in this psychological operation on planet earth’s untagged “herd” of humans?

    https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/world-news/infected-people-seen-dead-streets-21345585

    Remember that?

    We have never seen anything like this before in the entire modern history of China.

    Would Chinese officials really take such dramatic measures if the threat was not real?

    Of course here in the United States the CDC is assuring us that we don’t have anything to be concerned about…

    (https://www.silverdoctors.com/headlines/world-news/a-high-level-exercise-showed-that-a-coronavirus-pandemic-could-kill-65-million-people/%5D

    So let’s not rush to memory hole the Winter of 2020.

    The question is whether China is in on the scam or not?

    It seems to me they started the role-play (“the sky is falling”) in China. Then we were treated to a dose of reverse psychology by feigning “cover up” by the CCP. (Even to date, the script is not modified and media is continuing the line that “China is hiding its dead!”. Hm, maybe this disease behaves same in China thus “Flu like fatalities”?)

    The role of China’s behavior is never questioned, unless it is to imply that Covid is super deadly, not that it is no worst than flu. It needs to be on the table and in the other direction. Very curios myself to know if the above type of videos were also first on Chinese controlled social media. If yes, then that is a huge red flag.

    The question is not the wild goose chase of “who made this?” since that planted question implies “it” is “real”, but we know this is not the plague, and certainly none of us will ever have both the expertise and the evidence to deduce the source of this virus.

    The question is why CCP acted so strange, and why CCP, WHO, and Bill Gates are all on the same page as to “what needs to be done”.

  37. Emslander says:
    @Ron Unz

    I can’t think why you’d call real data absurd. The real data that is being developed shows the lesser percentage for mortality rate. I thought you were opposed to name-calling in the comments. You’ve just called the facts I gave “garbage”and the people who developed the facts “absurd”.

    As everyone has said all along, the flu is dangerous and kills many people. The Covid19 has no vaccine. This is its greatest threat. I and many seniors get the flu vaccine every year. This virus is also dangerous, but I don’t see what is gained by not examining the details and the data as they emerge and draw the proper conclusions.

    One conclusion that you have to draw is that a shutdown, as opposed to quarantining the sick and vulnerable, is also very dangerous. It was probably worse than any cure.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @Wally
    , @bjondo
  38. 450.org says:
    @An Endangered Species

    We did the same and our 21-year-old daughter and 17-year-old son thankfully have been amazingly compliant. Maybe because they both excel in the sciences versus religion.

  39. Alfred says:

    There are only two paths to immunity: Vaccine or the natural immune response of antibodies

    That is correct. However, there never has been any successful vaccine to any of the hundreds of different coronaviruses. Also, flu vaccines are merely a way for pharmaceutical companies to make money for little effort. The chart below is from the CDC. It is probably optimistic since they are in the vaccine business.

    Let’s face it. It is all about microchipping people so that Bill Gates can check up on you when he feels like it.

    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
  40. 450.org says:

    Once again, it must be emphatically stated, without comprehensive testing and retesting and without accurate year-over-year death statistics, it’s a shot in the dark to guess at a fatality rate.

    It’s also rather presumptuous to state or imply even that like everything else, we’ll get through this. We haven’t gotten through cancer. We haven’t gotten through diabetes. Instead, we’ve learned to exploit those diseases for maximal profit extraction.

    It’s highly plausible there is never an effective vaccine for this virus and that this virus will remain with us just as the common cold and influenza are always with us, but this virus is that much more deadly because it’s that much more contagious.

    What good is it for China to have taken the amazing containment measures it’s taken only for those efforts to be subverted for massive disease vector nations like Sweden and America where the strategy is herd immunity as if that’s even possible with this virus. China will have to maintain a quasi permanent ban on people from America and Sweden and maybe even stop trading with them altogether in the long term.

    America’s numbskullery has made it a danger to the world even more so than it was prior to the pandemic. Responsible states, like China and Japan and South Korea and Vietnam, should treat it as a pariah and shun it and ostracize it.

    Maybe a blackout amidst this pandemic crisis will stick a knife in America for good. Otherwise, America’s elites are intractable and doubling down amidst this pandemic. This pandemic has shown in full-fledged fashion, their true colors shining through for anyone who didn’t notice their already obvious neon sign declaring their zealous criminal sadism. Actually, it’s one color — Midnight Black Earth.

    • Agree: Jaylonw
  41. Ron Unz says:
    @Emslander

    I can’t think why you’d call real data absurd. The real data that is being developed shows the lesser percentage for mortality rate. I thought you were opposed to name-calling in the comments. You’ve just called the facts I gave “garbage”and the people who developed the facts “absurd”.

    Well, those studies were extensively discussed in comment-threads totaling something like 50,000 words, and thoroughly demolished by experts.

    My initial reaction had been fairly skeptical:

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/infection-rate-in-silicon-valley-was-under-5-in-early-april/#comment-3844473

    But after I read some of the very detailed critiques by knowledgeable individuals who reviewed the actual preprint, I concluded that the paper was just total garbage that no one should take seriously.

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/infection-rate-in-silicon-valley-was-under-5-in-early-april/#comment-3845841

    Most of the same problems applied to the companion study that was done in LA.

    People have an unfortunate tendency to just quote “studies” without bothering to properly examine their methodology or credibility.

    • LOL: Wally
    • Replies: @Frankie P
    , @cranc
  42. 450.org says:

    Actually, the shutdown was initiated in America at least by none other than Adam Silver. He served as the inspiration. One of the star trophy NBA athletes tested positive and he canceled the season in short order and had all NBA players tested.

    Adam Silver got the ball rolling for shutdowns. Common folk can’t get tested, but the elites and their elitist trophies, i.e their star stud athletes, can get tested no problemo and no doubt tested multiple times.

    In this sense, this pandemic is utilized by the elite as yet another weapon in their class war arsenal as they further line their pockets from the latest governmental giveaway to them. They didn’t necessarily have to plan it, they just had to be poised to exploit any and all potential opportunities to further stick it to the permanent underclass.

  43. Kim says:
    @Ron Unz

    One suspicious element of those “studies” is that they were apparently partly funded by a business lobbying group, which may have its own reasons for persuading people that the virus really isn’t all that dangerous.

    So now we are playing “Unsupported Innuendo and Slander”? That’s a game we can all play, isn’t it?

    Let’s see, you’ve suggested – on no evidence – that corrupt or falsified research promoted by an unnamed but no doubt sinister “business lobbying group” is being used to lure the unsuspecting public into a storm of life-threatening disease.

    That is almost a Bond-villain level of evil.

    But I can still top that. Because I say it was Nazis behind the research! Nazi research! So I win, because Nazis are trumps, right?

    Unless you are commenting on Saker, because there Anglo-Zionists are trumps.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  44. Fonsjosh says:

    As one who wants the demise of the American Empire I totally support the post s content. Go ahead US! Go for it!

  45. Kim says:

    People have an unfortunate tendency to just quote “studies” without bothering to properly examine their methodology or credibility.

    And so here we are. We’ve shut down the global economy and set ourselves up to suffer, long-term, a wide-ranging series of society-changing trends and impositions for nothing more than a death toll that looks like it will be no worse than the usual annual dose of sniffles.

    So I suppose you’re right. We really can’t be too careful about who and what we believe.

    • Agree: Joey Pastrami
  46. Well, at least they aren’t BSing us with stories of StayCations and FunEmployment.

    In a just world, the next wave would be among policy makers.

  47. Can we admit this was a “plandemic” from the get go?
    Can we admit many everywhere were foolish enough to swallow this “scamdemic” hook, line, and sinker?
    Can we admit that strapping a mask across your face is just about the best way we know to limit the fresh oxygen supply to your brain and force you to re-breath exhaled carbon dioxide?
    Can we admit this planned planetary collapse is far from over and it is about to get real with food shortages and massive starvation in many parts of the world?
    Can we admit Donald Trump will not save us and Democrats are doing all they can to keep this madness going?

    We could, but I’m not holding my breath..

  48. @utu

    What is sad to see you too, UTU diabolically twisting words, Uncle. How can anyone believe you ever again.

  49. Arnieus says:
    @Twodees Partain

    The only people I want to admit their mistake is Birx, Fauci, Adhanom, and most of the mgmt of the Center for Disease Control Prevention. I would like them to explain why they think giving millions of $$ to a lab in China to develop lethal viruses. Then I would like them fired and investigated. Bill Gates too, who so gleefully announced his plan to mandate his vaccines to the whole world faster than you can say Patriot Act.

    • Agree: Alfred, bjondo
    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  50. Bro43rd says:
    @Ron Unz

    The virus is real dangerous but the graphic above shows the lockdowns didn’t really change the death spike as Stockholm’s spike is no worse than the others. So please tell us why the lockdowns were so necessary. The first thing one needs to do when realizing they’re in a hole is to stop digging.
    Or to go with another saying, the lockdown is like throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

    • Replies: @Bro43rd
    , @Ron Unz
  51. Greg Bacon says: • Website

    I hope the authorities let us off the lockdowns by July 4 so we can celebrate muh freedoms! Millions can set off some firecrackers & guzzle Lite Beer in a defiant show of force against those Swamp Creatures.

  52. Arnieus says:
    @Exile

    I know what you mean. A Republic can only function in a productive society where leaders can be trusted. That seems to only be possible when everyone thinks Jesus is watching them 24 7 and judging their actions. I am not religious but I recognize how Christianity promoted good character.

    Maybe rather than chipping citizens, a requirement for public office would be an unremovable tracking chip, or body camera in politicians so their nefarious actions could be exposed.

    • Agree: Exile, James Stark
  53. M.Anthony says:

    To Thomasina (comment 29 above)…

    I can’t click on Agree. You’re 100% spot on.

  54. Bro43rd says:
    @Bro43rd

    And calling everyone flu hoaxers is kinda ironic coming from someone vilified as a holocaust denier. Especially since many posters here are simply anti-shutdown. Btw, I am in no way someone who calls you a holocaust denier, I think your research and writing on the subject is needed sunlight on a dark matter, thank you for that.

  55. jsigur says:

    He touched on labor and the elites desire to disempower it.
    Back in the 30’s, the Jews were still vying with the wasp community for elite dominance and control. Labor Unions were always a Jew tool much like feminism is today. It’s no longer a Jew tool for subversion and therefore why the MSM failed to cover The Occupy Movement in 2008.
    Labor unions are no longer a Jewish tool of subversion by and large but, like Jew created Christianity, could, after its initial effectiveness in Rome, become a pain in the Jewish ass.
    So too can “Useful idiots” in labor later become a pain in the Jewish ass as they truly believe in the causes proclaimed that the inventor Jews, who were using it as a temporary measure to obtain power, never believed at heart.

  56. jsigur says:
    @follyofwar

    PPl believing propaganda makes them part of the ‘we’, so maybe not you but maybe him?

  57. jsigur says:
    @Ron Unz

    Talk about elitist, Unz who didn’t write the article, singles out his personal comments with yellow background, I guess that goes right along with his 3 comments an hour policy, a way to keep the unwashed masses from having too much influence

  58. Agent76 says:

    Mar 31, 2020 Politicians Use COVID-19 to Take Away Your Freedoms

    Apr 25, 2020 StayWoke Parody

    Created by: AnonymousArtist

  59. We’ll probably find out how bad it could have been, by watching Mexico City and the big cities in Brazil where they couldn’t or wouldn’t follow the social distancing guidelines.

    We’ll see how it goes through the favelas and barrios.

    Whether it was created by man or nature, the virus has shown its value as a potential weapon. We will probably be seeing it again and again.

    Btw, turns out China had a $3 million contract from the US to explore gain of function in the virus. The U.S. Congress banned that kind of research so the U.S. Military sent it abroad.

    I wonder who else has these kind of contracts?

  60. Saggy says: • Website

    I’m finding this a little hard to believe, but …. cntl-F has never led me wrong before, and after checking I see that the article doesn’t contain a single mention of China or South Korea. That is, two countries that have defeated the virus and that should serve as examples of how the virus should be contained. So, IMO the article is garbage. If you haven’t seen it, check out …..

  61. TG says:

    And what if people who have been infected don’t get lasting immunity?

  62. @Ron Unz

    Total weekly death rate and spikes…
    Would these be like the spikes seen in the daily death tolls officially reported on in Britain where:

    Essentially, the NHS’s daily mortality reports, which are supposed to cover Covid19 deaths over the previous 24 hours, will regularly, and apparently randomly, include data from many other days, going back six weeks or more.
    To illustrate this, let’s look at one day in detail: April 10th.
    The DHSC report released that day states that 980 people died of Covid19. This was covered in the press as the UK’s “deadliest Covid19 day”.
    The Telegraph’s headline announced: “UK death toll jumps 980 in 24 hours in biggest rise yet”.
    The Daily Mail reported: “Britain records Europe’s highest single-day death toll: Number of victims jumps by 980”
    Sky News went with: “980 tops Spain and Italy’s highest daily number of deaths, which were 961 and 919 respectively.”
    But, at the time the report was released, the previous 24 hours had seen just 117 “Covid19 related deaths” according to NHS England, with a further possible 90 coming from Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales, for a maximum possible total of 204.
    The other 776 people included in the report had died at seemingly random points between March 5th and April 8th.
    The reported “980 deaths in one day” were, in reality, spread over five weeks.
    This is not a “conspiracy theory”, it’s not any kind of theory. It’s a fact openly admitted in the official numbers, here. It’s not even an isolated incident, the same is true of ALL the daily “Covid19 death reports”.

    Epidemiologist Wittkowski tipped us off to this most unscientific ploy too when he spoke of the shoe box of data from some previous period being dumped, at a later point, into the statistics governing this coronavirus creating, artificially, a spike. Science tells us that “nature doesn’t jump”. Such changes in the usual collection of data are inexplicable if one “follows the science.”

    But what power has sound analysis over Ron Unz’ ability to affix labels to the foreheads of those who here disturb the oligarchs’ narrative?

    https://off-guardian.org/2020/04/23/why-you-cant-trust-the-uks-daily-covid19-updates/

    • Replies: @Alfred
    , @2stateshmustate
  63. @follyofwar

    I was in hibernation and fully stocked early on this one, well before the politicians and media were paying any attention.

    The lockdown strategy actually surprised me–I was expecting a quarantine approach.

    A quarantine would have closed the borders in hot zones (cities, for the most part) and let everyone go about their business at different levels (with home made masks) both inside and outside the quarantine areas.

    That approach can still work, and would help the economic situation.

    That would also calm down the anger of those who either deny the seriousness of the virus, or have been hit hard economically, or both.

    We humans really need to figure out how to work together before something really serious happens.

    If this is a “dry run”, whether planned or unplanned, .gov is not passing the test.

    • Agree: Si1ver1ock
  64. Anonymous[192] • Disclaimer says:
    @Kim

    The long term plan can’t be waved away as a vague tendency to centralize power. It includes the cashless economy, as you point out, and with it eventual control over all purchases for political purposes. The UBI (for obvious reasons) can only be temporary, with those on its dole slated for elimination as parasites.

    The plan apparently also includes, as the most natural mode of control, the reduction in our standard of living by one half. This is already baked into the cake by stealth appropriation of wages and savings through relentless inflation of the money supply and eventual explosion in prices. Forced vaccinations with sterilants and adjuvants known to induce docility are hardly speculative, as Robert Kennedy Jr revealed. Overall the plan calls for a reduction in the world’s population in the billions.

    My take is that, beyond Potemkin Village displays, there will be no return of our manufacturing base and high-paying factory jobs, with the further destruction of local retail once the drunken spending spree is over. On the next rollout of a baked-in mutation of C19 or another catastrophe, travel will become a privilege granted by application showing cause and no longer a right, as will public assembly for any purpose.

    A brilliant French study on man-made disasters may be the key to the next “plannedemic,” in which not one catastrophe like 9/11 or GFC or C19 is rolled out, but one catastrophe cascading on top of the other in fairly quick succession preventing a return to equilibrium. Based on the hysteria the MSM created out of cooked data and faked videos of ER madness, as well as the willingness of people to buy into such bullsh*t as MDs donning lab coats and stethoscopes to pontificate on mathematical epidemiology or pretend to understand the biochemistry of virology, it’s a certainty that cascading such disasters will overwhelm resistance. How people cannot see that their infantilized trust in MDs to do more than interpret symptoms is being used against them like Judas goats leading sheep to the slaughter defies explanation. This is a key to understanding the plan; that is, the MSM’s elevating various sorts of TV caricatures of trustworthiness to act as Judas goats who the talking heads acting as our proxies turn to like children.

    I keep thinking back to the time right after 9/11 when the USDA attempted to inform Congress on the dire risk of introduced pandemics to our livestock and crops. Not one member of Congress showed up to the hearing as I recall. The intent to eliminate or drastically minimize the amount of meat in our diet dovetails nicely with pathogens reverse engineered from the cure. There have been a few articles pointing out likely shortages in pork and beef, but no scenarios predicting the effects of controlled destruction of our beef pipeline, which, I believe, is only a week deep or so. A breakdown in our food chain would devastate this country like a human pandemic. If C19 is a dry run for the finale involving cascading disasters, we should also consider real or faked suitcase nukes blamed on Iran in a few key cities such as NY whose governments can be relied on to go along with the plan à la 9/11 and C19.

    • Thanks: St-Germain
  65. @450.org

    Excellent post. Let us remember:

    At the pentacle of the 2002, 2003 SARS epidemic, the CDC filed and received a U.S. patent on the corona virus that made the jump to humans. That patent was issued by the US government to the CDC from a filing made in 2003. By filing that patent, the CDC effectively took domain over the control of the research that can be done on the corona virus. At the same time the CDC was involved in filing for a patent on the CV, another company Novavax(funded in part by the Gates Foundation), which had been testing and patenting vaccines for a long time, began working on a series of attempts at building a vaccine. This included vaccines that targeted corona virus. Novavax has gone for 17 years with the propitiatory right too, and all of the technical capabilities for developing a vaccine, which you are being told by the main stream media is supposed to be the emergency magic bullet that is somehow going to release us from our house arrest. This vaccine has been studied, researched, developed, and proliferated throughout the scientific and patent literature. In 17 years there hasn’t been a vaccine submitted for and receiving approval from any agency that is the conventional control of vaccines in the US.
    David E. Martin. Ph.D

  66. Ron Unz says:
    @Bro43rd

    “The virus is real dangerous but the graphic above shows the lockdowns didn’t really change the death spike as Stockholm’s spike is no worse than the others.”

    Well, from what I’ve read Sweden’s economy has largely closed down, though it doesn’t have an official lockdown.

    Another factor is that the average time from infection to death may be as long as 4 weeks, so the deaths we’re seeing now are based on what happened a month ago.

    • Replies: @Johnny Smoggins
  67. Sparkon says:
    @thordaddy

    Get out of here with your grammatical ignorance.

    “We” is nominative case. “Us” is objective case. Similarly, “they” is nominative case, but “them” is objective case.

    The subject of a sentence must be in nominative case.

    The verb “to be” (is) takes only nominative case.

    To be grammatically correct, you should say

    “It’s we and they”

    It is I. It was they. It is we.

    Never make the mistake of thinking that famous celebrities are a good reference or standard for anything.

    It was I who said it.

    • Replies: @Johnny Walker Read
  68. As far as opening up the economy, they should at least try to get prepared. They were caught flat footed once, having it happen twice is beyond incompetent, more like criminal negligence.

    Amazon, Walmart, local grocery stores, etc. should have high quality, low cost face masks ready to sell/ship.

    One thing that hasn’t been addressed is that hospitals were essentially shut down for non coronavirus stuff, which means that minor stuff had to be taken care of at home. Add a high quality low cost first-aid kit to the list of things that should be stockpiled.

    But, what to do about mass transit?

    https://www.multivu.com/players/English/8710351-shanghai-sunwin-healthcare-bus-coronavirus/

    https://gulfnews.com/uae/health/coronavirus-how-dubai-metro-and-other-public-transport-is-sanitised-1.70446740

  69. Emslander says:

    The Bakersfield doctors in the video at the end of the article, above, made a very interesting point that is outside all the issues about data, statistics, models and peer-reviewed studies. It is apparently a product of their own experience and you can argue with it on that basis, but I think it’s a phenomenon that might become very important.

    They said that more than 50 percent of the vulnerable population choose not to get the flu vaccine every year. If we get a CRV19 vaccine, the only way it will work properly is if everyone gets it. Will that become part of next year’s federal mandates or state mandates? Will non-compliers be jailed and force-injected?

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  70. Wally says:
    @Sean

    So, of the current alternatives, who do you think would be a better President than Trump and why?

    Go on, give us a name and your reasoning.

  71. I am okay with ending the lockdown. I also recognize that you will have an uptick of all viral illness as people leave their germ free cocoons. My problem here is most multiple job workers were picking up part-time work in jobs that are considered essential in the shutdown. Most low end full-timers are doing well with unemployment benefits. You want to make an argument for ending the lockdown do a full frontal assault on education, and call for the end of school tax for the duration. Say that freed up money will help families to come up with viable alternatives for education. The inability to brainwash your children will send the liberals into a frenzy. Can you imagine if were to go further up the line into the colleges? Can’t wait to see how many of them have to close without the economy.

  72. Wally says:
    @Emslander

    People are clearly waking up to the fact that CV19 is absurdly over hyped, no different than a nasty flu, and no threat to the vast majority of the population.

    The result? A big middle finger to the control freaks.

    Just look a CA this weekend, vast numbers of ‘Fuck You Gov. Newsom’ at the beach, on the streets, at the parks.

    People are figuring out the neo-Marxist fraud.

    • Agree: Twodees Partain
    • Replies: @Tadeo
  73. @Alfred

    Steve and Ron are both boomers. Hence the early paranoia about the virus. Ron has shown many times that he’s not afraid of confronting difficult truths, I think he just got this one wrong.

    The two “alt right” news sources I regularly read are Unz and The Daily Stormer. Andrew Anglin called this as a hoax in February, looks like he was right.

    • Replies: @Alfred
    , @Ron Unz
  74. Easy does it is the wrong approach , Mike Pompeo should just announce “the live exercise is over “, we have collected all the data we needed and the CARES Bill has bailed out the banks and Wall Street and billionaires and millionaires are doing well , see :
    “American billionaires have gotten $280 billion richer since the start of the COVID-!9 pandemic”msn.com
    “43k US millionaires will get ‘stimulus’ averaging &1.6 million each [under CARES Bill]” NY Post

  75. @Ron Unz

    O/T Ron, but Amazon has banned Might is Right. Any plans to add that to your banned book list?

  76. “At the same time, more than 500,000 good paying government jobs were slashed in order to trim budgets and enforce the belt-tightening regime that is crucial part of this upward wealth transfer swindle”

    As far as I’m concerned, many more useless gov jobs could be slashed along with many useless gov programs. All the posturing by those people, the media, academia and so forth shows how societies have declined into a near-vegetative state with respect to thinking for oneself, exercising common sense and practicing self-reliance.

  77. Bill says:
    @blank-misgivings

    This is as good a case as can be made against lockdowns.

    That’s pretty damning of the anti-lockdown case, if true.

  78. Alfred says:
    @Johnny Rico

    You might want to use a more current graphic.

    I agree. I searched all over but Reuters and the MSM have all forgotten about Italy – because the numbers were too low.

    The map I presented was useful to scare the people when it came out 6 weeks ago. A more recent version would not scare anyone. But that is precisely what I have been claiming all along – that this is a hoax designed to make people accept irrational decisions.

    If you can find a more recent version, please post it. I would be very interested. 🙂

    Here is the best I could do. It is for the whole country and shows a massive decline in new cases over the past 6 weeks. Not at all what one would expect when looking at the map 6 weeks ago.

    • Replies: @Iris
  79. There may be another reason that the globalist elites may end the lockdown immediately rather than”easy does it” – the glut of oil, there is nowhere left to store it,see :’We are moving into the end game-27 tankers anchored off California , hundreds off Singapore as oil industry shuts down”zerohedge.com :
    “…in as little as three weeks there will literally be no place left on earth to store it…”

  80. Alfred says:
    @450.org

    only for those efforts to be subverted for massive disease vector nations like Sweden

    You have absolutely no idea how infections such as the flu suddenly arrive and build up only to quickly disappear in a few days. Why don’t you look at the charts that I have repeatedly posted for Germany?

    Influenza is not like Bordeaux wines. The Saint-Emilion 1978 Grand Cru virus cannot be kept bottled up in a cave in Sweden and then reintroduced every year thereafter to China. 🙂

    It is not like HIV which will always be with us so long as some people prefer buggery and needle-sharing. It is a different thing altogether.

    • Replies: @450.org
  81. @jsigur

    I don’t see the need for personal attacks on Ron. Ron’s site is great; I find it invaluable even when I disagree with him. I don’t have a problem with the 3 comments an hour policy although I’d be interested in expanding it to 5 or so, and perhaps more importantly, in allowing for posters to have a longer time to edit their comments in case of typos or so forth.

  82. Levtraro says:

    The bottom line is this: The data and the science do not support the current policy.

    The author is just not up-to-date with the literature. This paper:

    https://doi.org/10.1126/science.abb4557

    demonstrates that the lockdown policy worked in China.

    There are only two paths to immunity: Vaccine or the natural immune response of antibodies. That’s it! There is no third path.

    Wrong. There is an alternative policy, the policy we are following now. It’s called containment. It worked with SARS-CoV-1 in 2003 (it was contained in July 2003) and it worked with SARS-CoV-2 in China in 2020.

    Herd immunity is a foolhardy policy without knowing more about the virus, its mutation rate and the ability of the human defenses to mount an effective and lasting immune response, which several clues are -unfortunately- suggesting it is rather low (that’s why I think vaccines will not work very well either).

    • Agree: utu, Jaylonw
    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
    , @Iris
  83. Ok says:

    The Wuhan Virus, and especially shelter in place, was planned to hide the death of the economy. The wealthy will do anything in their power to keep growing their wealth. When I was young, I was told, “The rich don’t want you to have what they have.” I’ve experienced that truth many times in life. And yet again, as the inherently corrupt Federal Reserve economy is put to sleep once and for all, the new economy will be guided by blockchain technology and digital assets pegged to the price of gold.

    So, here’s a direct quote from an insider from Ripple, the company that created the protocol that will be used to bridge cross-border exchange using it’s crypto asset, XRP. XRP will be the fuel that speeds liquidity and it may even, one day, be used as the worlds reserve currency. You can buy one XRP Token for .20c on an exchange such as Coinbase. Yet, this revolutionary development that’s been in the making for seven years is a strictly guarded secret. Fewer than .01 percent of Americans even know it exists. Why is that? Follow on.

    Direct quote from Ripple insider Rachel Lee @LeeR9991 on Twitter, dated May 21, 2018. “Understand one thing about #Ripple/#XRP. Theres never going to be a gradual rise to d top. Its going to be an overnight mass adoption so as not to allow d entire world to stock up on xrp. We all cant be millionaires/billionaires. SBI launch was delayed for the big players to catch up.”

    So, how is that for an Elysium (movie) moment? Remember the (so-called) elites had their satellite haven above earth where everyone had a household scanner that could diagnose and cure every health problem that a human may endure. The elite didn’t want to share the machine because everyone on earth who wasn’t rich had to die or risk overpopulating the planet. That sounds exactly like Bill Gate’s biggest fear, that the 99%er’s and deplorables make it bad for the rich by living too long.

    But wait, there’s more. Here’s Shane Ellis @ShaneEllisCEO .13m “Right – keep the price as low as possible for as long as possible. Insto’s buy as much as possible before rocketing the price to keep as many people out. They did it with DOT. COM, they will do it again. (not sure of the date but it looks like 2018/10/04 21:41

    So, the rich don’t want you to have what they have. They’ve destroyed our economy, plunged us into a depression, and they plan to be insanely rich billionaires off of XRP / Ripple (going public in October) by manipulating the price if a digital asset that will be far more valuable than Bitcoin.

    Everyone should participate in the opportunity to make a killing off of XRP

    Elite? Not even close unless the meaning of elite is selfish, corrupt scumsucking, despicable, narcissists. The so-called elite wouldn’t last one week living like the deplorable bottom 50 percent.

    • Replies: @450.org
  84. Coronavirus is a scam weapon to destroy America by the ghouls behind UN Agenda 2030 to usher in a one world government.

  85. jsigur says:
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    It jumped out at me that only his comments are highlighted in the comment section and it annoys me when I have an important thought I can’t get out because of the three comments an hour rule

    But the fact that I come here is a recommendation for the site in and of itself. I do believe it is a 3rd tier op though – (protocols 12-11 if you wish to define that)

  86. 450.org says:
    @TG

    According to one sign I saw from one of the protesters, a female in fact who wants the freedom to do with her body what she will except for her womb which belongs to Big Skydaddy, it said “Sacrifice The Weak.” No lie. The irony is, those protesting are the weak. Look how many of them have succumbed to opioid addiction that last couple of decades. So yeah, go ahead and sacrifice yourselves but just not with this virus please. Instead turn those guns around and point them at your heads and pull the triggers.

    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome
  87. 450.org says:
    @Ok

    The Wuhan Virus? Yeah, no, I don’t think so. More like COVFEFE-19 or the Covfefe Virus. Trump and the cabal using him as a foil own this virus at this point. They have turned America into a massive pandemic disease vector. A viral gift that will keep on giving so long as America is America even if in name only.

  88. The Assholian retards on here just refuse to see the truth. These comments on here are really a sight to see. The asshole retards just don’t want to hear the truth.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/coronavirus-deaths-likely-60-higher-official-numbers-reflect-ft-finds

  89. @Levtraro

    You are being way too easy on people who are willing to gamble with other’s lives.

    Overreacting for two months, OK, no problem. Since every country is doing it, no problem. China closed it economy for two months, now they are done with the virus n restarting it’s economy. If a quarantine was enforced starting March, this damn virus would be over. No fucking brainer.

    Treating covid 19 like the flu = few hundred thousands dead or more. No lock downs or quarantine. Then what? Can we execute the retards who claim it was just the flu? Because they just caused few hundred thousand deaths.

    The consequences for being wrong are vastly different in their severeness.

    Only reason the first option is not working because the quarantine is fucking optional, partial. The infected were sent home to infect their families. I am 99.99% sure new york city will suffer a few waves of this virus due to reintroduction by the areas around the city.

    Fuck the govt, fuck the deniers, fuck people who think killing the old is ok, fuck the morons who think this is a left or right political issue, fuck the retards who are better off dead.

  90. @Kim

    This is peanuts compared to the shilling he’s been doing elsewhere on behalf of the CCP. It is shocking how quickly the alt-right ripped off their mask, even their oligarch handlers are more discreet than that.

  91. “…Many of these businesses will be unable to muddle through the protracted freeze, and will be forced to draw the blinds and call it quits. That’s going to be devastating for the country and for the thousands of small towns that owe their survival to the revenues produced by these small businesses. It’s going to change everything; where people work, where people shop, and where people call home…”

    Exactly! That’s the plan within plans within plans (Dune-speak) to destroy small town and rural America, the last bastions of freedom. No small town businesses (esp. gift shops where tourists hang out), family-owned restaurants and motels, etc.) Thus, more and more people will leave rural America and small towns and move into stack-and-packs where surveillance is 24-7. All part of “the plan” (within plans within plans). Because “fear is the mind killer” (more Dune-speak). Especially those parts of rural America within the 100-mile border area, aka “the Constitution-free Zone”.

  92. Anonymous[156] • Disclaimer says:
    @obwandiyag

    Hey Sambo, even ZH’s readers aren’t buying their doom porn anymore, this “study” (from the FT!) is picked apart by just about every comment there.

  93. Ron Unz says:
    @obwandiyag

    The Assholian retards on here just refuse to see the truth. These comments on here are really a sight to see. The asshole retards just don’t want to hear the truth.

    Very funny about those ZeroHedge comments…

    What’s particularly amusing is that there are some reasonable suspicions that ZeroHedge has been coopted over the last few years by Deep State financial interests, which then used it to heavily promote a popular “conspiracy theory” that the Coronavirus was a Chinese bioweapon released from the Wuhan lab.

    But it now looks that all their efforts to demonize China for launching a worldwide epidemic and killing millions may now be swamped by the far more popular “conspiracy theory” that the whole Coronavirus epidemic is just a hoax, and “It’s Just the Flu!”

    Frankly, I’m pretty glad about that outcome…

    • Replies: @obwandiyag
    , @Emslander
    , @utu
    , @bing0
  94. Anonymous[129] • Disclaimer says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    You’re foaming at the mouth, I certainly hope it’s not something contagious!

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  95. Agent76 says:

    Apr 27, 2020 Stop Calling It Contact Tracing! – #PropagandaWatch

    What’s in a name? Everything. Find out about the latest attempt to package the Orwellian total police state surveillance grid as something wonderful and wholesome—and why you should never, ever say “contact tracing”—in this week’s edition of #PropagandaWatch.

  96. @Astuteobservor II

    China closed it economy for two months, now they are done with the virus n restarting it’s economy.

    The restart of China’s economy is a myth–a politboro wet dream.

    They have dozens of oil tankers full of oil parked offshore–with no industry to take delivery.

    They have lost the international markets to buy their goods.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  97. @Anonymous

    Don’t worry, you will be dead n rotting for decades before my death.

    Venting is good for the health.

    • Replies: @Poco
  98. @Justvisiting

    Do you know about the oil reserve of non oil producing countries?

    Check the numbers for China, USA, Japan etc.

    China sent almost all their tankers when the price of oil went to the shits. The best timing in history to stock up for their reserves.

    The numbers should speak for themselves, I hope I don’t have to reply to something so obvious again.

  99. 450.org says:
    @Alfred

    It is a different thing altogether.

    Your conclusions about this virus are premature. It remains to be seen. My comparison to the flu and common cold only applies to the mere fact these afflictions remain with us and come back again and again.

  100. Wally says:
    @Robert Dolan

    – Considering that 21% of NYC has been ‘infected’, how would this “contact tracing” work?

    It’s preposterous.

    – The left keeps changing the goalposts, they want the shutdown to continue regardless of the economic and health costs.

    recommended:
    NYC is sooo special / NYC virus problem is a leadership, filth, & density problem / gotta read it & see it to believe it
    https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2020/04/the_wuhan_virus_reveals_the_rot_in_americas_democratrun_cities.html

    Open Up Now, Lockdowns Are Weakening our Immune System:
    https://www.zerohedge.com/health/2-whisteblowing-cali-er-doctors-urge-open-society-now-because-lockdowns-are-weakening-our

  101. Peter Frost says: • Website

    Can we admit that we were wrong? Can we admit that the coronavirus is not going to kill “hundreds of thousands or even millions” of Americans?

    Today, the COVID-19 death toll is over 55,000 in the U.S. Since deaths are a lagging indicator, the final figure will be two to three times that amount. If we have a second wave in the fall, it could easily top 200,000.

    So it’s very likely that COVID-19 will literally kill hundreds of thousands of Americans.

    I agree that both sides have made outrageous claims in this debate. But what about the outrageous claims of the COVID-19 skeptics?

    What about: “It’s no worse than a bad flu.”

    Here are total deaths for the first, second, and third worst flu seasons of the past forty years in the U.S.:

    2017-2018 – 61,000
    2014-2015 – 51,000
    2003-2004 – 49,000

    COVID-19 deaths are trailing only the first figure. Does anyone here think the final figure won’t be at least twice that of the worst seasonal flu?

  102. @Alfred

    If 3M wants to move its manufacturing out of the USA, where they became what they are today, then let the management take up Indonesian citizenship and not continue to eat their cake and keep it too with American passports … let the SOBs live in a overpopulated country without luxury of home to see how they would like it!

  103. @Astuteobservor II

    The lockdown did start in March, goofball.

    You still cannot explain Sweden, Arkansas, N. Dakota, S. Dakota, Iowa, Idaho, etc.

    NY has ten times as many deaths as Sweden.

    The truth is that they didn’t close the borders when they should have…..so the virus is HERE
    and basically it’s going to SPREAD, either slowly or quickly. And you’ll have the same number of casualties either way.

    Think it through.

    The lockdowns only prolonged the epidemic. Sweden is approaching herd immunity while we destroyed our economy.

    They could have simply isolated the sick and the elderly and the rest of us could have continued working, using the strategies of distancing, hand washing, the option of masks, etc.

    Nobody is “denying” there’s a virus, you fool.

    And it IS a political issue because everything is now a political issue. Medicines are political.
    Chicken sandwiches are political. The Jleft makes EVERYTHING political.

  104. @Peter Frost

    That’s the Jmedia narrative.

    But the truth is that they are fudging the numbers greatly, and attributing any and all deaths to Covid.

    And there is massive proof of this all over the internet.

    80K died of the flu in 2018, and I doubt that Covid will be higher, although they might inflate the figures to push it higher.

    Note that flu and pneumonia deaths are down…..probably because they are now re-labeled “Covid.”

    AND….JF had a graph showing that total number of deaths are not out of line this year compared to years past….and the same for Sweden as well.

    • Replies: @Peter Frost
  105. Alfred says:
    @Felix Culpa

    Epidemiologist Wittkowski tipped us off to this most unscientific ploy too when he spoke of the shoe box of data from some previous period being dumped, at a later point, into the statistics governing this coronavirus creating, artificially, a spike

    April 10th was a Friday. I guess they were in a hurry to empty the shoe box before the weekend. 🙂

    • Replies: @Felix Culpa
  106. Anonymous[192] • Disclaimer says:
    @Kim

    Are you looking for mask symbolism, Kim? Check out synchromystic’s YouTube on coronavirus masks. The NYT, for example, had one of its illuminati, Vanessa Friedman, write a piece on masks back on 3/17. For starters, the behavior-modifying symbolism begins with such an anorexic, unattractive but ethnically Jewish looking woman being made queen of NY fashion as the NYT’s fashion editor.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/style/face-mask-coronavirus.html

    She offers some obvious, trite mask symbolism before dropping this bomb, “… those white or baby blue rectangles that hide the mouth and nose, turning everyone into a muzzled pelican.” Because this expression is so odd and because it’s straightforward metonymy and not a metaphor, it bears closer scrutiny. By using metonymy, she isn’t talking about the mask’s symbolizing temporary psychological states such as protection, fear, participation, or unity, but rather that the wearer has become the mask, inviting a symbolic interpretation based upon her play on words.

    In her defense, she does have a huge schnozzle, which is Yiddish for a big nose, which in turn comes from the German “Schnauze,” or muzzle, so she may have been unintentionally admitting the mask makes her nose look bigger. That interpretation, however, is doubtful and by “muzzled” she undoubtedly means just that, silenced and neutered.

    “Pelican,” it turns out is a word straight out of alchemy, of alchemical transformation of lead into gold, which in occult circles refers to the transformation of mankind, not metals, into a new and better form. The word specifically refers to a crucible in which a chemical transformation will take place, which presumably is the chemical transformation of human behavior by dosing the coming mandatory vaccines with sterilants and adjuvants known to diminish self-actuated behavior. As an aside, a Department of Defense video shows a presentation in which the speaker says the DOD’s contractors have already developed a vaccination adjuvant that displaces the gene responsible for religious belief in the recipients and showing comparative brain scans, and while in that case the intent was for use against Afghans and Iraqis, such adjuvants can obviously be used against Americans during any global mandatory vaccination programs.

  107. utu says:
    @Ron Unz

    IFR growth is almost exponential.

    For age<70 IFR doubling age is 4.7 years. The risk of death from age 50 to age 60 increases four times. The effective IFR for any given population depends on the age demographics. Median age for Italy=45, Spain =44.9, New York=38.2, California=36, Israel=30.2. And most importantly the effective IFR will depend on how well the elderly population is protected for which the IFR grows from 1% at 65 to over 10% at 90. Ideally the infection rate among the elderly population should be kept below the average infection rate. But some segments of the elderly population may actually have higher infection rates due the communal living in retirement and nursing homes where often no special countermeasures were implemented.

  108. David says:
    @jsigur

    All sponsored authors’ comments show up like that under their own articles or those of others.

    • Replies: @jsigur
  109. 450.org says:
    @Robert Dolan

    The truth is that they didn’t close the borders when they should have…..so the virus is HERE

    Exactly, Trump and the cabal using him as a foil had ample warning about the imminent pandemic as far back as November before China knew what was about to hit Wuhan and yet Trump and the cabal using him as a stooge/foil failed to act and lockdown the nation and so it’s here.

  110. @Ron Unz

    Sure ZeroHedge is a bunch of shills. But the article said “more deaths.” And they were quoting the Financial Times. Who are probably shills too. But more deaths is more deaths. Probably, there will be millions of uncounted deaths. Like the FT says. Shills or no shills. Un-counted now. And un-counted forevermore. And thus the deniers will be proven right by simple poor bookkeeping, even though, in some tree-falling-in-the-forest-with-nobody-to-hear-it way, they would be wrong if there were somebody to hear. (Cf. Tlon Uqbar and Orbis Tertius).

    Thus, whatever the source, the article says “more deaths”, “underreported” the way I read it.

    Don’t you read it that way? If not, why not? I don’t get it.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  111. @blank-misgivings

    If by “left” you mean economic justice, instead of the dread social kind, then you got something there. More re-distribution of wealth is a good thing. The only people who really oppose it are those who have it already. (Those who aren’t rich and oppose it are just insane, and may be discounted.)

  112. Patricus says:
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    The Unz site is unique and a treasure. Some commenters might be crazy but this large group of commenters is also unique. I have seen no other site like this.

  113. @Astuteobservor II

    You are the true hero of all right-thinking people and I ain’t joking.

    You’re exactly right. Fuck them big-time with a cherry on top, please.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  114. Alfred says:
    @Johnny Smoggins

    Steve and Ron are both boomers. Hence the early paranoia about the virus

    Thank you.

    I am also a boomer. But I was born in Africa and at a different point in the cycle. I think all societies have a cycle and they eventually return to their point of departure. For example, it is obvious that the West was much more musically creative when I was a teenager. But this does not just apply to music. It applies to everything else as well.

    I have nothing in common with most Americans, British and Australians of my age. I find myself much more relaxed with girls who are less than half my age and women much older than me. All men of all ages dislike me. I am used to that. 🙂

  115. utu says:
    @Peter Frost

    Agree but you can make much stronger point. The skeptics and their demagogues like to compare apples and oranges hoping that nobody would notice which usually is the case because they are preaching to the choir.

    (1) Flu totals are for the unconstrained spread. Covid-19 total is with the countermeasures implemented. Without the countermeasures we would have an order of magnitude higher total.

    (2) Flu totals accumulate over several months. Now for Covid-19 the total close to 60,000 was reached in just one month. With the 3-4 week infection to death mean period most infections responsible for the deaths occurred prior to the countermeasures implementations.

    • Agree: Ron Unz
    • Replies: @Fidelios Automata
    , @Wally
  116. @Robert Dolan

    Know the difference and effectiveness of a real quarantine vs retarded partial lock downs.

    One gets rid of the virus in 6 to 8 weeks. Without paying the price of few hundred thousand deaths for herd immunity.

    The other flattens the curve so ICU doesn’t get overwhelmed. But prolongs the pandemic by 3x or 4x.

    Know the difference yet you fucking retard?

  117. @obwandiyag

    Just someone who has lost all patience with the stupids.

  118. @Ron Unz

    Could the loss of healthcare for every other illness besides COVID also explain these spikes in deaths?

  119. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    longer time to edit their comments

    Puzzled by complaints of editing time have noticed recently. At least on my phone, editing time appears unlimited. Compose, preview, edit, preview, edit… [repeat until satisfied], then publish. On my phone, 5min limit begins only after publishing. Is desktop different?

  120. Emslander says:
    @Ron Unz

    It might be helpful to come to an agreement on the source of basic data to use.

    I see some outlets today say that the national death toll for Covid19 is nearly 57,000, while the New York Times has the confirmed figure of deaths at under 50,000.

    It also might be helpful to properly clarify the positions people are taking. If you believe that no general shutdown was ever a good idea, that doesn’t mean that you are an effing denier of anything. It’s possible to compare Covid19 to the flu in its efffects, especially when you acknowledge that the flu is a serious killer of the elderly, the obese and those with certain conditions. To say it’s this much or that much like the flu isn’t to discount its danger or deadliness. The primary danger of Covid19 is that it has come into the world population that has no immunity to it, either the natural immunity of those who’ve had it and recovered or the immunity of a vaccine. Maybe the best way to put it is to say that it’s a novel virus.

    Then, we ought to be able to look at the actual data and compare it to the models. That’s where so much emotion has taken control. I’m not sure how to make the final comparison. That’s probably not possible until it’s run its course, one way or the other, but name-calling and other forms of irrationality certainly don’t seem helpful.

    • Replies: @450.org
  121. @Robert Dolan

    Nobody is “denying” there’s a virus, you fool.

    Nobody:

    https://truthcomestolight.com/2020/04/03/the-creation-of-a-false-epidemic-with-jon-rappoport/

    Nobody:

    https://vaccineliberationarmy.com/2020/04/04/covid-19-is-not-a-virus-david-icke/

    On some of the right-wing blogs, the “nobodies” are breeding and multiplying faster than a virus!

  122. Greg Bacon says: • Website
    @utu

    More demagoguery from Mike Whitney.

    MW loves to write highly inflammatory articles that border on hysteria, with no really substance.

    I quit reading one alt news outlet because they started featuring Whitney’s sham journalism, now it looks like UNZ is going down the same twisted rabbit hole.

    • Agree: utu
  123. utu says:

    A lesson from history on the dangers of lifting lockdown too soon: How San Francisco’s deaths more than DOUBLED in a second peak when it ended social distancing after just a month in 1918 Spanish Flu pandemic
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8261013/San-Francisco-1918-flu-pandemic-warning-against-lifting-lockdown-soon.html

  124. Ron Unz says:
    @obwandiyag

    Thus, whatever the source, the article says “more deaths”, “underreported” the way I read it.

    Sure, from what I saw that particular ZeroHedge summary of the important FT death-rate analysis was completely correct and very sensible. I just found it pretty funny that the “China Dun It!” people are getting totally swamped by the Flu Hoaxers. And perhaps there’s a logical reason for that…

  125. Greg Bacon says: • Website
    @Peter Frost

    COVID-19 deaths are trailing only the first figure. Does anyone here think the final figure won’t be at least twice that of the worst seasonal flu?

    For one thing, the 2017-18 American flu death was close to 80,000.

    For another, back then, the MSM wasn’t screaming FLU 24/7 like they are now with COVID, making matters worse.
    And another, the total 2018 FLU deaths weren’t jacked up by dumping damn near anyone who died from non-injury accident into the total, falsely inflating the actual COVID death rate.

    Notice that the MSM hasn’t been blubbering about how Putin stole the 2016 election for Trump? That’s because many finally figured out it was a bunch of BS, just like this fake Covid panic.

    The important thing is, those TBTF banks were bailed out AGAIN, and many an American will be losing their homes because of this COVID WMD, but we won’t talk about that, let’s focus our rage on those damned Chinee!

    • Replies: @Fidelios Automata
  126. geokat62 says:
    @Peter Frost

    If we have a second wave in the fall, it could easily top 200,000.

    Isn’t the flu season considered to run from October through May. Wouldn’t the second wave, therefore, count toward the 2020-2021 season?

  127. @Peter Frost

    Today, the COVID-19 death toll is over 55,000 in the U.S. Since deaths are a lagging indicator, the final figure will be two to three times that amount. If we have a second wave in the fall, it could easily top 200,000.

    So it’s very likely that COVID-19 will literally kill hundreds of thousands of Americans.

    “…deaths are a lagging indicator, the final figure could be two to three times that amount.”

    Why not twenty times that amount? You are providing no basis for the two to three. Why not swing for the seats and say 17 or 37 times worse?

    “… a second wave in the fall”

    Oh, that’s perfect. Now we get to include two flu season’s worth of deaths into one fuzzy projection.

    I do hope those hundreds of thousands (or even millions!!) of dying Americans will get a few peaceful hours to watch the latest nurse tik-tok dance videos

  128. Ron Unz says:
    @Johnny Smoggins

    The two “alt right” news sources I regularly read are Unz and The Daily Stormer. Andrew Anglin called this as a hoax in February, looks like he was right.

    Well, I happen to have my own “conspiracy theory” about what’s really going on behind the scenes of these controversies…

    That Anglin fellow seems like a pretty sharp guy and I used to regularly look at his website, though a great deal of the material is obviously over-the-top satire or performance art.

    Assuming you’ve read my recent article, you know that I think it’s pretty likely that the whole Coronavirus outbreak was a biowarfare attack against China (and Iran), presumably by some of the Deep State Neocons around Trump. I had my suspicions from fairly early on, and I know that Anglin also said the same thing on a number of occasions. The whole situation was really rather blatant when you think about it. I repeatedly made the point in late January comments.

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-our-coronavirus-catastrophe-as-biowarfare-blowback/

    But as my article emphasizes, the people behind the attack had anticipated such accusations, and so they had launched their own major propaganda offensive by mid-January, widely promoting the idea in rightwing circles that the virus was an accidentally released Chinese bioweapon, with ZeroHedge one of their primary venues.

    I remember around March, Anglin was freely saying the whole thing was going to be a total disaster in America due to Trump’s incompetence, and huge numbers of people would die. And I think he even said how shocked he was at how absurdly easily the Trump people were finding it to deflect the blame on China, even though that made absolutely no sense.

    So I suspect that he realized the “China bioweapon” story was just too well entrenched among (gullible) right-wing activists to be easily dislodged with more plausible information when the topic really became hot in America around then. And he decided to launch a clever flank attack instead, and focus on the “It’s Just the Flu!!!” nonsense, which had also been floating around in fringe circles.

    Based on the comments to that ZeroHedge article someone linked, it seems to have worked perfectly. The “China bioweapon” people at ZeroHedge are apparently getting totally swamped by the “It’s Just the Flu!!” people. After all, if It’s Just the Flu! how can anyone blame China?

    So if you Flu Hoaxers are willing to spend most of your time fighting the Deep State Neocon shills who are promoting the (very dangerous) “Chinese Bioweapon” nonsense, more power to you.

    • Replies: @450.org
    , @Kim
  129. @obwandiyag

    Yes, I believe everything ZioHedge has too say …

  130. utu says:
    @Ron Unz

    But it now looks that all their efforts to demonize China for launching a worldwide epidemic and killing millions may now be swamped by the far more popular “conspiracy theory” that the whole Coronavirus epidemic is just a hoax, and “It’s Just the Flu!”

    Would China be able to recognize that “It’s Just the Flu!” campaign would work to her benefit? Would China know how to add fuel to it? With a helping hand of Russia perhaps? Russia Today had an anti-lockdown in the UK editorial recently. Mike Whitney uses Russia Today article claiming that IFR in NYC is much lower than thought.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  131. 450.org says:
    @Ron Unz

    Of course, the China Bioweaponers and the Flu Hoaxers may be one and the same and probably are. Both serve the same purpose ultimately. Obfuscation. Deflection. Distraction. Disinformation.

    • Troll: Twodees Partain
  132. 450.org says:

    How is death from the flu determined? I’ve yet to know anyone who died from the flu. I know of no one who has ever died from the flu. I do know of people who died from COVFEFE-19.

  133. 450.org says:
    @Emslander

    To say it’s this much or that much like the flu isn’t to discount its danger or deadliness.

    Unfortunately, most if not all those comparing this virus to the flu are in fact doing it to discount its danger and deadliness.

  134. nickels says:
    @Peter Frost

    Today, the COVID-19 death toll is over 55,000 in the U.S. Since deaths are a lagging indicator, the final figure will be two to three times that amount. If we have a second wave in the fall, it could easily top 200,000.

    So it’s very likely that COVID-19 will literally kill hundreds of thousands of Americans.

    Or not.
    Time to get a pair as a nation and stop the fearmongering.

  135. @Greg Bacon

    Exactly. And the MSM won’t take responsibility for fanning the flames of the panic, leading to economic disaster and more death and misery than this flu will ever cause.

  136. @utu

    And how do we know that social distancing measures have had any effect whatsover? The example of Sweden shows that they probably haven’t.

    • Replies: @utu
  137. Wally says:
    @utu

    said:
    “Without the countermeasures we would have an order of magnitude higher total.”

    – If “countermeasures” means locking down the country, then I strongly disagree.

    – Sweden did much less and has about the same relative numbers.

    – See a map of the the ‘hot spots’, it certainly is not a big deal nationally.

    – Please see comment #105 and the links about filthy & dense NYC.

    • Replies: @utu
  138. @Peter Frost

    One of the things I don’t understand is: don’t we have a vaccine for the flu? Weren’t many people vaccinated in the U.S. in 2017 and 2018? Didn’t that lower the fatalities significantly? Shouldn’t it be part of your analysis?

  139. @Ron Unz

    The spikes clearly say something, but what? Hospitals all over the US are empty or near empty, and ER personnel have commented on the current dearth of patients seeking treatment for acute appendicitis, heart attacks and other medical emergencies due to fears of exposure to the coronavirus in the hospital setting.

    It’s not possible to say whether these spikes are due to people dying at home from the coronavirus, or due to people dying at home with non-covid medical conditions out fear of coronavirus nosocomial infections, or some combination of the two.

  140. @Astuteobservor II

    Sweden won’t have a “few hundred thousand deaths.” They have one tenth as many deaths as NYC.

    Hospitals are EMPTY.

    Hospital staff are being LAID OFF.

    People with other ailments will now DIE because of the Covid idiocy.

    Wrecking the economy is going to cause pain and misery that we can’t even imagine.

    Like the useless cunts in the Jmedia, you use the term “flatten the curve.” We did THAT, then they moved the goalposts to we can’t reopen until there are no more infections, which means NEVER.

    Gates calls this “Pandemic One.” So we can be SURE they have MORE planned in the future.

    Low IQ shitdick that you are, you can’t address the success of Sweden and Arkansas and the other areas of the globe that didn’t shutdown and are no worse off for it.

    It should be evident, even to a cretin like yourself, that there is a much bigger agenda at play.

    • Agree: Alfred
    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  141. cranc says:
    @Ron Unz

    The effects of closing down economies, closing down regular health services, fear bombing the population through the media, and keeping people in their homes creates an upward trend in mortality. This makes sense, and is supported by the increased numbers of non-covid deaths reported in official statistics. This, combined with the actual virus would make up the numbers. 4 million deaths from communicable disease worldwide this year. 200,000 attributed to covid. Perspective.
    Nobody really claims this is not a nasty virus. The argument (the non straw man argument) is that there has not been proportionate response. The response will kill more than the virus. I have not read you answer these points despite them being made repeatedly for you. I wonder why not ?
    The use of ‘flu-hoaxers’ rhetoric is a sign of a non-argument (reminiscent of those who use ‘conspiracy theorist’ as a label). Why else would someone resort to name calling ?
    On the FT graph man, check this account below. John Burn-Murdoch has read that book which was conspicuously placed on Bill Gates pile of ‘to reads’ : How To Lie With Statistics

    • Agree: Weston Waroda
    • Replies: @cranc
  142. utu says:
    @Fidelios Automata

    “…social distancing…had any effect whatsover?” – Are you really asking this question?

    Sweden is practicing social distancing. Look at movie theaters attendance in Sweden which we are told does not practice social distancing vs. Norway and Denmark who shut down all movie theaters. (graph from Steve Sailer)

    You are skeptical and suspicious of what MSM tell us but at the same time the spin that Sweden is making about itself via the same MSM is believable, right?

    • Replies: @geokat62
  143. bing0 says:
    @Ron Unz

    i am from Belgium. As far as i am aware, more than 7200 deaths here. That’s not the typical flu. Several of my friends do work in hospitals. Not an easy job, these days. But whatever.

    about China: i know about 2 theories. 1. A warning from TDS because China wants to be a big player, and that isn’t allowed. 2. They developed it themselves because of the ongoing demonstrations.

    about Italy: i have read a while ago there had been a vac program some months ago in that region.

    about the world: according to atleast 1 source i do trust 5G messes up with your immune system, hence giving the virus more room to attack.

    I m Dutch, so please forgive any grammar mistakes. Thank you.

  144. @Peter Frost

    The questions are (1) how many deaths does a lockdown prevent and (2) at what cost. Costs in terms of (1) other lives (medical opportunity costs, suicide increase etc); (2) loss of quality of life; (2) and loss of freedom (a value judgement but an important consideration).

    NYC is proving to be a special case. The policies of Sweden, South Dakota et al are providing solid evidence that the lockdowns have minimal effect for most populations. For example among the mountain/rural states, there’s no correlation between lockdown policies and death rates. Sweden is higher than its Scandinavian neighbors, but still well below the likes of UK, Italy, Belgium and others. Or compare California to Florida. The only conclusion is that even if the lockdown prevents some deaths, other factors are far more decisive, such as temperature; population density; public transportation etc.

    If the whole point of the lockdown is to prevent the healthcare system from being overwhelmed, Sweden and South Dakota have demonstrated that it’s not necessary in most or all of America, particularly in suburban and rural areas.

    Just because a public policy decision can be proven to save lives doesn’t mean it’s the best course of action. Otherwise we’d have a 10 mph speed limit and sugar would be illegal.

    If we did nothing but inform the public, I don’t see more than 300-400k deaths of mostly old people with co-morbidities. Probably far less but I’m trying to assume the worst for the sake of argument. Even this amount of death doesn’t justify the lockdown. We see 600k deaths a year from alcohol, drugs and tobacco. When 61,000 people died of the flu all I recall from the news cycle was “Trump racist orange man”. The lockdown zealots simply don’t have the capacity to abstractly and objectively balance the cost of life against quality of life, expending limited resources, and the value Americans traditionally place on freedom.

    • Replies: @Hail
  145. utu says:
    @Wally

    Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finland – four countries with similar cultures, infrastructure, economic development. Sweden has over seven times higher deaths per capita than the other three countries that implemented more strict countermeasures.

    The lives of 85% Swedes who are now dead could have been saved. Their lives would have been saved if they were Danes or Norwegians instead of being Swedes. A treatment that improves survivability by factor of two or five or a vaccine may become available in several months how then the families of those dead people will feel. Will they feel bad that they did not object to Swedish government’s cynical and callous policy that lead to the death of their relatives or will they sue the government?

    • Agree: Ron Unz
  146. Anonymous[280] • Disclaimer says:

    It looks like America will go full Bolsonaro. Let everyone catch it; if you die, you die.

  147. Poco says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    No, the covids is going to get you when the country is opened back up. You’ll be dead within a year.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  148. Antares says:

    @Ron Unz
    “What will they think of me” is a wrong use of the ego. It leads to group think where the function of the ego is to become an individual.

  149. Chippers says:
    @Ron Unz

    Ron, thank you for this. I am amazed at the stupidity of Mr. Whitney here. He has had good things to say in the past few years about multiple topics, but as a healthcare professional, I call bullshit on his essay here. Too many reasons to list and frankly, I don’t care enough to answer him. But thank you Mr. Unz, for your reply.

  150. Ron Unz says:
    @utu

    Would China be able to recognize that “It’s Just the Flu!” campaign would work to her benefit? Would China know how to add fuel to it? With a helping hand of Russia perhaps? Russia Today had an anti-lockdown in the UK editorial recently. Mike Whitney uses Russia Today article claiming that IFR in NYC is much lower than thought.

    Possibly…but I tend to doubt it. From the little I’ve seen and heard, neither of their English-language broadcast/propaganda arms are all that sophisticated. Their journalists probably picked it up some from low-quality American source, and got confused. Or maybe they’re just looking for sensationalist stuff to get clicks.

    • Replies: @utu
  151. geokat62 says:
    @utu

    Swedwen is practicing social distancing

    It’s true that Sweden is practicing social distancing, but the key distinction is that theirs is VOLUNTARY, while ours is MANDATORY.

    Here are some of the rules to which Swedes are expected to adhere:

    – no gatherings of more than 50 people,
    – avoid social contact if over 70 or ill,
    – try to work from home,
    – table service only in bars and restaurants

    It should also be noted that while elementary schools are open, middle and secondary schools are closed in Sweden.

    So, while Swedes may be avoiding movie theatres, they can still have a glass of wine whilst sitting on a patio, their young children can still go to school, and they can still go shopping, as most of their retail businesses are open.

    Despite these relatively lax policies, they’ve managed to keep the death toll at a tolerable level, without invoking the draconian policy of MANDATORY shelter-in-place that is predicted to have a severe impact on the economy. Big difference!

    btw – Sweden recorded 2 official new deaths from Covid-19, yesterday.

    • Replies: @utu
  152. Agent76 says:

    Apr 26, 2020 Bill Gates: Phase 2 Is A Bio Terror Attack

    We were once told our enemies were nation states and we had to duck and cover because the enemy could strike with great devastation at a moments notice.

  153. utu says:
    @geokat62

    “tolerable level” – Not tolerable for the dead. Sweden had seven times higher deaths per capita than the other three Scandinavian countries. 85% of Swedes who died would have lived if they were in Norway or Denmark or Finland.

    “draconian” – Are you sure you know what draconian is?

    • Replies: @geokat62
  154. @Wielgus

    You are right about the WSWS coverage of the virus—-Frankly, Whitney, who is generally very good, is remarkably ignorant on this subject. Sweden is clearly a mess and a failure. The lock down response to the pandemic is a result of the success of the Chinese lock down in Wuhan and the Korean lock down in Seoul. Those strategies incorporated testing and tracing something not done in the US, Sweden nor UK. The failure of statistical modeling is the result of not understanding the scientific nature nor mutability of the virus itself. Of course, when statistical modeling fails to accurately predict reality the fall back is to rely on thinking. No longer a strong suit of the specie.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  155. @Arnieus

    The state governors have a lot to answer for as well. I won’t hold my breath waiting for any of those asshats to admit that they were wrong, or even that they don’t have any authority to issue proclamations with the force of law.

  156. geokat62 says:
    @utu

    Not tolerable for the dead.

    With this remark, I get the sense you belong to the school of thought that one life lost is one life too many. With this mindset, I’m surprised you support people driving their cars on the roadways.

    85% of Swedes who died would have lived if they were in Norway or Denmark or Finland.

    You’d think the Swedes would be up in arms!

    “draconian” – Are you sure you know what draconian is?

    Given its Hellenic roots, I’m quite familiar with the meaning of this term.

    • Replies: @utu
  157. @Emslander

    “If we get a CRV19 vaccine, the only way it will work properly is if everyone gets it”

    That’s an admission that the vaccine doesn’t work. If a vaccine is effective, it would be effective in the one person who submitted to it when only one person did so. Pharma-shills were blaming unvaccinated children for a measles outbreak last year in which vaccinated children were being infected with measles. I suppose that none of them could see the grossly illogical position they were taking.

    You’re right to point out that this claim is just an excuse for making the vaccine mandatory. Not everyone has a tolerance for the adjuvants in vaccines that is required to avoid an adverse reaction. Mandatory vaccination can cause harm to those people. If vaccines are effective, then the people who choose not to get vaccinated can only harm themselves.

  158. @Poco

    You make it sound like I am one of you retards who would risk my life base on what the retards told you. You and your entire family can die for the economy and I would applaud it.

    Good job, die for the greater cause.

    • Replies: @Poco
  159. @Felix Culpa

    Excellent points.

    This is a hoax.

  160. This is a hoax and here are some reasons why.

    One easy way to tell if something is a hoax if the MSM is all on board with it. Check

    Another sign of a media hoax is if dissent is not tolerated. Check

    Also, when anyone who questions the hoax is immediately shouted down as a tin-foil hat conspiracy theorist. Check

    And last but not least is the “resort to authority” argument where they throw “science” in your face when you point out that their story is full of holes. Check

    All the above points apply to the 911 false flag and anthrax release as well.

    • Agree: Alfred
  161. utu says:
    @geokat62

    “I’m surprised you support people driving their cars on the roadways.” – You are not good at analogies. But let’s stay with it. I would be very upset with my government if it did not regulate that we drive on only one side of the road and if it did not enforce it. The risk of driving would be much higher than when we enforce the rules. People are not very good at self organizing and when they achieve some sort if stable solution within the chaos it is not the best one because better ones to achieve require input of energy and information to lower entropy from without of the systemic. That’s where the government comes in. This is a basic prisoner dilemma scenario. W/o cooperation both prisoners end up snitching at each other and doing time.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  162. Iris says:
    @Alfred

    If you can find a more recent version, please post it. I would be very interested.

    Hello Alfred. This is a very recent study of Italy’s Covid 19 death toll by scientists from Berkeley. While it is not peer-reviewed yet, it well illustrates the difficulty in assessing the excess death toll, and much enhances the mathematical debate.

    The result they come up with is that the number of COVID-19 deaths in Italy is 52,000 ± 2000 as of April 18 2020, more than a factor of 2 higher than the official number.

    It does not surprise those among us who have carefully followed up official communications: France and the UK, too, have to a large extent discarded deaths occurring in care homes from public stats.

    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.15.20067074v2.full.pdf

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-8261591/Coronavirus-8-times-fatal-thought-kill-0-5-infected-people-NYC.html

    • Replies: @Alfred
  163. @Alfred

    Good points. Since you have posted a very interesting graph about the flu vaccine, I will complement it with an excerpt of the Influenza Vaccine Wikipedia article, because it has some very interesting information which I was not aware of until today, and which might interest other people as well:

    “A vaccine is assessed by its efficacy – the extent to which it reduces risk of disease under controlled conditions – and its effectiveness – the observed reduction in risk after the vaccine is put into use.[28] In the case of influenza, effectiveness is expected to be lower than the efficacy because it is measured using the rates of influenza-like illness, which is not always caused by influenza.[6] Influenza vaccines generally show high efficacy, as measured by the antibody production in animal models or vaccinated people.[29] However, studies on the effectiveness of flu vaccines in the real world are difficult; vaccines may be imperfectly matched, virus prevalence varies widely between years, and influenza is often confused with other influenza-like illnesses.[30] However, in most years (16 of the 19 years before 2007), the flu vaccine strains have been a good match for the circulating strains,[31] and even a mismatched vaccine can often provide cross-protection.[22] The virus rapidly changes due to antigenic drift, a slight mutation in the virus that causes a new strain to arise.[32]

    Repeated annual influenza vaccination generally offer consistent year-on-year protection against influenza.[33] There is however suggestive evidence that repeated vaccinations may cause a reduction in vaccine effectiveness for certain influenza subtypes; this has no relevance to current recommendations for yearly vaccinations but might influence future vaccination policy.[34][35] As of 2019, the CDC recommends a yearly vaccine as most studies demonstrate overall effectiveness of annual influenza vaccination.” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza_vaccine)

    Since the article speaks of cross-protection, I wonder if any study has been conducted about whether the Flu vaccine offers any protection against the novel coronavirus. The official discourse propagated by the media, at least here in Brazil, was that it didn’t offer any protection, but did they really investigate it?

    Something else that I find disconcerting, and which I expressed in comment #145: when comparing the absolute numbers of deaths by Flu and Covid-19, shouldn’t people take into account that a lot of people are immunized against the Flu through vaccination?

  164. @gotmituns

    I am in New Jersey as well. Is there anything I can do to help?

  165. @Robert Dolan

    Comparing a sparsely populated country to one of the most densely populated cities in the world. Only something a retard would do.

    Of course some are empty. Do you know why retard? We sent all mild symptom patients home to infect their families. It is why those NYC temporary hospital beds stayed empty.

    Laid off? Where in bloody fuck did you hear such a stupid rumor? NYC offered 10,000$ a week to nurses to take care if 12 patients per day. That job offering was to the entire country.

    Yea, all other shit you were talking about wouldn’t need to be considered if we enacted a real medical quarantine starting March. We would be back to normal already, restarting our precious economy.

    So many bloody fucking retards, damn.

    • Replies: @Alfred
  166. @jsigur

    Ha ha ha ha ha!

    Agree with him or not, I want to read what Unz has to say. Why? Because his opinions are worthy of consideration.

    I don’t want to interrupt my train of thought by “searching” for Unz. The yellow background facilitates my scan.

    Without the elitist Unz, the closest you’ll find to a righteous jew, you’d be left with fringe gentile websites at WordPress, pissing in their oats and preaching to a choir of cranks, ignoramuses, sociopaths, and criminals!

    WTF are you going to do when everything but the elitist Unz and his Review are closed to “dissenters”?

    Nothing. You’ll comply.

    What are you gonna do when Unz is forced to close or modify his modus operandi?

    Nothing. Following 55+ years of blight wing failure, you’ll comply.

    End. Of. F..king. Story.

    • Replies: @jsigur
  167. @Gast

    No apology will be forthcoming. The Unz will say he has the right to print what he believes (although his definition of belief may differ from the facts) and readers have the right to believe what they want. What this means as everyone knows is that if the same rubbish is hyped on an hourly basis it takes a hardened cold cynic to stick with his logic and conclusions. In the end being truthful is neither good nor bad, its the internet traffic that matters. This is the disreputable point where we now find ourselves.

    As for the woman who saved millions of lives, the USA has a chronic need for heroes. Remember the girl who was a Rambo hero in the Gulf War but that fairy tale turned out to be sleazy propaganda ? The same technique is trotted out time after time. The fact is since millions were supposed to die but only a few thousand did because the models were rubbish, she “saved” millions. The unfortunate aspect of this garbage is that thousands will applaud her heroism with a vulgar Hoorah.

    Now to Anatoli. Each and everyone of us knows characters that are dodgy. The few I know are fellows who keep a low profile in dress, speech and mannerisms. You would not give them a second look they appear so nondescript. Yet there is always an intuitive feeling that they are extremely dangerous but strongly wish to be anonymous and inconspicuous. Take for example tattoos. A Police chief told me the hard men abhor them and if they got them when they were younger and more stupid, do everything to have them removed. Why? Because they are a mark of identification. So I am amused when I see chaps with skulls, axes and ghouls drawn all over their bodies. Hence I think the opposite must be true to a great extent. Anatoli with his sword and armless shirt is a fake gangster and phony tough guy. This doofus looks like he robbed a roadside clothing donation box and did not have the good sense to steal the better stuff. Antoli is a cut and paste pretender. I would bet he spends all night reading up on the virus and then barfing up another load of bilge that pretends to be original thought supplemented with colourful graphs and cartoon thumbnail photos. When his rubbish is challenged, he blocks your comments from his site. This shows me he is quite unable to defend his assertions because not surprisingly they are utter bunk. As for tough guys do Carlo Gambino and Pablo Escobar look like gangsters or monsters ? Do they walk around with medieval swords in grubby armless shirts and run down sneakers ?

    Both are arrogant Anatoli more so and from arrogance flows ignorance. Where this virus is concerned it was a crock of shit from the beginning and as time goes by with the extra lies, confusion and conflicting opinions from all the experts it has disintegrated into a farce yet a farce that is going to destroy more people than the virus itself.

    One thing I know is that I dont believe anything I read in the press. I like to do my own thinking so when I look at the number infected and the number dead versus population, even with the inflated and false numbers the percentages are inconsequential. India, with 1.3B people most of them living in appalling filth and poverty has 824 deaths and Modi locked down the country. Do I need a PhD in logic to conclude a lockdown is idiotic or will a $1.25 calculator from the dollar store give me a better basis for my opinion. I have found that people who act without regard to conscience and decency never believe themselves to be in the wrong so to expect righteousness from them is futile.

    I posit a little trust is good, some trust is better, but a complete lack of trust is best. The Joker lives day by day with this aphorism constantly before him.

    • Thanks: Gast
    • Replies: @onebornfree
    , @Alfred
    , @refl
  168. a_german_ says:

    Did somebody remember post 2008 where Germany comes out like phoenix from the ashes after the crisis? After they overpowered the rest of Europe in a few years.

    Well there was a simple reason. The Gouvernement has used the German unemployment insurance to park all the workers on a roundabout 60% net. income (called Kurzarbeitergeld). They gone to every company above 100 workers or so and told them to hold the workforce. They ensured that they will not check anything . Even if work continues, which is forbidden by law. After the crisis the companies restarts immediately and did not need to find new employers.

    Same now with different, more elaborate, tactics. Restaurants e.g. can work on a to go basis which is – from what i can see – enough to pay the rent. From a medical view this is counterproductive, but who cares? There is a no questions asked one time support that depends on the number of workers. Payout in one week. Costs a little money but they know they get it back. Like last time, Germany has a positive state budget a few years now.

    What do your country do? Corona fake response and meddling about influenza victims?

    • Agree: Iris
  169. Iris says:
    @Levtraro

    Wrong. There is an alternative policy, the policy we are following now. It’s called containment. It worked with SARS-CoV-1 in 2003 (it was contained in July 2003) and it worked with SARS-CoV-2 in China in 2020.
    Herd immunity is a foolhardy policy without knowing more about the virus, its mutation rate and the ability of the human defenses to mount an effective and lasting immune response

    Both yourself and the author of this article are right: maybe the question should have been drawn up differently than whether lockdowns work or not.

    In countries where government have plans to support the population with emergency crisis funding, people are willing to put up with a lockdown that save lives, as their own socio-economic survival is not jeopardized.

    In the US, a large fraction of the people get a medicine that is worst than the disease, as the lockdown results in millions losing their jobs and livelihood, without the state making up for it.

    Covid-19 is acting as a great revelator of what every political system on the planet is actually designed to do: some use their resources to support their population in time of hardship, others work for the oligarchy and use the hardship to further rip off the population and transfer more assets to the 0.1%.

    The question is not whether lockdowns work or not, but whether they are worth it for those people abandoned by their government.

    • Replies: @utu
  170. Poco says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    Good grief man. It’s a pandemical holocaust, you can’t escape it unless you live in China. Just face your demise. The economy doesn’t concern me.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  171. Everybody may have watched at least one movie in which a classic scene is present: the hero is being chased by one or more very powerful enemies, and comes to a cliff which is separated from another cliff by a non-negligible distance. The hero can turn back and fight, or he can try to jump to the other side.

    This is a good metaphor for the dilemma faced by our health officials and the politicians who base their decisions on their expertise and advice. To turn back and fight would be the equivalent to the ‘no intervention’ policy. To jump to the other side would correspond to the ‘suppression’ policy, that is, strict lockdown, with even the essential services closed down, and essential items like food and medication being delivered to everyone’s home by the army.

    Our brilliant leaders have concluded that neither alternative was a viable one, for reasons which are easy to imagine. They came up with a third alternative: ‘mitigation’, i.e., close down ‘non-essential’ establishments, but let people go out to buy food, medication, or do other assorted stuff which is considered essential. As hospitals are emptied, even those restrictions are lifted, only to be reimposed when hospitals’ occupation near their capacity again. And so on.

    Now imagine the metaphorical equivalent to that decision: our hero, faced with the two tough decisions of staying on one side or jumping to the other side, decides to take the middle path: he jumps to a point equidistant between the two cliffs. He is applauded all the way down by the ‘moderates’ in the audience.

    • Replies: @Iris
  172. Wally says:
    @utu

    Nonsense. Your comparing apples & oranges.

    recommended:
    https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-death-rate-by-country-current-fatalities-compared-to-cases-2020-3?op=1

    Sweden death rate: 0.59%
    US death rate: 1.68%

    • Replies: @utu
  173. @utu

    Or a game-changing treatment does not become available soon, and all the Danes and Norwegians (and the USA) did was kick the can down the road. You can be too conservative in either direction. That’s the whole point of public policies that balance death and competing interests like utility, freedom and quality of life. A 10 mph speed limit could be just as bad – or even worse – than no speed limit at all. (Regarding autos, we seem to have found a good balance with current speed limits, regulations, and driving restrictions whereby we allow roughly 37,000 deaths per year in exchange for the utility, freedom, and quality of life provided by automobiles).

    For more rural areas, the lockdown appears to have little to no effect if you compare South Dakota to its neighbors. (IIRC someone did a regression analysis of the rural/mountain states and found no correlation between lockdown measures and death rates). What makes sense for New York City doesn’t make sense for suburban Texas. The same lockdown policy in Texas will have the same costs but far less benefit.

    Sweden is still doing better than the Netherlands, UK, Italy, France, Spain, Belgium et al. And Stockholm’s population density is a little greater than Washington DC – and thereby the entire West Coast save for San Francisco. There’s no reason to think most American cities, never mind suburban or rural areas, could be hit as hard as NYC even if they tried.

    We also need to factor in age and co-morbidity into policy decisions. IIRC, the average age of coronavirus deaths in Italy was only a couple years less than the life expectancy, and nearly all had commodities. As much as it offends boomers like Unz, it simply doesn’t make sense to place equal value on someone with a few years of life expectancy compared to someone with 50+ years life expectancy.

    As I’ve said on here before, this is like lowering the speed limit to 10 mph to save 37,000 lives per year. Assuming the lockdown is saving lives, why is it worth it? How long does it go on? How many lives have to be saved to make it worth it? (For example, if all the lockdowns did was save one life, I think we could all agree it’s not worth it – so what’s the number of lives that tips the scale?) How is this consistent with other similar public policies? Why don’t we have some lockdowns during bad flu years?

    • Agree: Robert Dolan, geokat62
    • Replies: @Iris
  174. @Poco

    Please. I have been under self quarantine for almost 2 months now. Moved the fuck outta NYC the moment I realized how fucking stupid our govt was. You think I am going to let this shit get me or my family? I have enough supplies for 9 months. Just ordered enough for 6 more months. Hopefully enough till vaccine. Since the town I live in now is so sparsely populated, I am as safe as I could be. I can even take walks without meeting anyone.

    I am as prepared as any American possibly could.

    Pandemic sure, but I can make fucking sure I don’t enter the lottery where there is 1% chance I would die.

    • Replies: @Herald
  175. bjondo says:
    @Alfred

    They will all claim that it was because of the lockdown that the virus vanished

    Then they will all claim that it was because
    of the lock down lift that the virus came back.

    5 dancing shlomos

  176. jsigur says:
    @David

    OK, I took note of it because it was not in one of his article threads which does make sense to me to draw attention to the fact he is the thread-starter. Not that big a deal, just seems to me that it’s sort of elitist and elitism rarely legitimately meshes with grass roots. Of course true grass roots is practically non- existent but is necessary if necessary change is to be made and the rulers are the problem

  177. jsigur says:
    @Oldtradesman

    How are you going to defeat a Jew dominated system that targets its white host by finding it necessary for Jews to legitimate you? Of course, the alt-right had Jews everywhere including running most of the live streaming channels.
    It basically assures a real movement can’t thrive without Jewish approval. This means when the revolution comes, Jews will be kicked out the front door while other Jews climb through the windows to replace them

  178. Your last question nails it. Why don’t we have lockdowns for bad flu years? The more I ask myself this question, the more I think that this entire scenario was socially engineered.

    It could have been STOPPED by simply closing the borders and stopping all flights into the US.

    They didn’t do that. And the government KNEW about the virus because some of our shithead reps sold off their stocks.

    Covid has about the same death rate as the flu, at 0.1%.

    No way we should have wrecked our economy for that.

    Gates had a coronavirus simulation back in Oct.

    Rockefeller Institute had simulations many years ago as well.

    So, the global elite meticulously studied the effects of pandemics on the populace. And as Whitney Webb discovered, this elite has plans to impose a surveillance state on our people, and fear is an excellent way to cow people into submission.

    I suspect that if they don’t get their way, we can expect more pandemics, lockdowns, and probably famine. The Bolsheviks used starvation as a tool of war, and we are dealing with neo-Bolshevik filth, the same kind of murderous scum the German people were fighting against.

    Gates calls this current fiasco, “Pandemic One.”

    How considerate of him to give a numbered label in the expectation of many more epidemics to come.

  179. bjondo says:
    @Emslander

    One conclusion that you have to draw is that a shutdown, as opposed to quarantining the sick and vulnerable, is also very dangerous. It was probably worse than any cure.

    Something they learned in Vietnam:
    To save a village from itself, destroy it.
    Of course, “save” just a lie. They wanted to destroy the village.

    The US is being destroyed.
    Time for reviving the guillotine.

    5 dancing shlomos

  180. Iris says:
    @Brás Cubas

    There two other very important factors to take into account in the equation.

    – Once China had decided to apply lockdown, all national policymakers knew there was going to be a global recession anyway, no matter whether they applied lockdown in their own countries or not.
    So it was better to have recession and less deaths, rather than recession AND high death toll.

    – We live in a globalised world; no country can live in autarcy, and the rich need to cross borders all the times. Once lockdowns had been enforced by a large number of nations, even those who don’t give a damn about their poor had to pretend to be doing something, for fear international borders to close onto them. I am sure that swathes of people will die of Covid-19 unnacounted for in the slums of Johannesburg or Rio, but appearances must be preserved for their rich countrymen to remain free to travel the world.

    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
    , @anon
  181. Iris says:
    @anonymous jew

    What makes sense for New York City doesn’t make sense for suburban Texas. The same lockdown policy in Texas will have the same costs but far less benefit.

    This question is very much with us at a moment where lockdown exit measures are being discussed.

    In France, for instance, the Constitution does NOT authorise to relax lockdown measures to parts of the national territory which are not at all impacted by Covid 19.

    And similarly, it does not allow to selectively apply lockdown to elderly people to protect them from the disease.

  182. utu says:
    @Wally

    “Sweden did much less and has about the same relative numbers.” – Your statement was false as I demonstrated with the graph in my #152 comment. Sweden has 7 times higher death per capita than other Scandinavian countries. Now, go back to your CODEH basement as continue counting the dead Jews.

    • LOL: Wally
    • Replies: @Wally
  183. onebornfree says: • Website
    @The Grim Joker

    “Do I need a PhD in logic to conclude a lockdown is idiotic ”

    Nah, from what I’ve seen to date, a PhD of any sort would most likely ensure that you would have no common sense left, and therefor be just another over-educated, brainwashed fool entirely in favor of the lockdowns, when the simple fact of the matter is that the only thing that needs to be locked down, permanently, _everywhere_ is the government itself.

    Regards,onebornfree

    • LOL: The Grim Joker
  184. Anonymous[237] • Disclaimer says:

    Can we admit that “social distancing”, “shelter in place”, “self isolation” and “self quarantine” are arbitrary directives aimed at social control and not science-based remedies derived from serious research?

    Cows, sheep, goats and pigs don’t self isolate and infected humans are not euthanized (unless they commit suicide by self-injecting with bleach). But if this advice were heeded during a Foot-and-Mouth Disease outbreak, the devastation to the food chain would be incalculable.

  185. utu says:
    @Iris

    You are right. The response to this pandemic reveals a lot about people and their national character. The “It’s just a flu” brigade epitomizes what deep down America is and what always was. Tocqueville, Dickens and D.H. Lawrence saw it an wrote about it. You can find their quotes in my comment archives.

    • LOL: Wally
    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
    , @vinteuil
  186. Anonymous[355] • Disclaimer says:
    @Alfred

    In China as a whole, I suspect that only 10% of the population has antibodies. In Wuhan, it may be 20%. I have no proof but that is my guesstimate.

    These numbers are very interesting, but what are they based on? Could you share the line of reasoning behind these guesstimates?

    • Replies: @Alfred
    , @Alfred
  187. Wally says:
    @utu

    I also note that you ignored this new study:

    Open Up Now, Lockdowns Are Weakening our Immune System:
    https://www.zerohedge.com/health/2-whisteblowing-cali-er-doctors-urge-open-society-now-because-lockdowns-are-weakening-our
    pt. 1 now banned by Youtube, but up on Bitchute:



    pt.2

  188. geokat62 says:
    @utu

    You are not good at analogies.

    I was going to respond to this but anonymous jew’s comment #180 beat me to it.

    Thx aj!

  189. Wally says:
    @utu

    Laughable utu, a True Believer in impossible ‘Nazi gas chambers’ simply ignores the informatin I posted which proves that Sweden has done much better than locked down US.

    He tries to compare irrelevant Denmark & Norway, which are not the US.

    LOL

  190. Frankie P says:
    @Ron Unz

    “People have an unfortunate tendency to just quote “studies” without bothering to properly examine their methodology or credibility.”

    Yes! That would also have to include the British government, which made a 180 degree turn after the Imperial College London modeling “study”, not peer reviewed, not published. That sword cuts both ways, Ron.

  191. @Astuteobservor II

    Know the difference and effectiveness of a real quarantine vs retarded partial lock downs.

    Quarantines and lockdowns are terms that are often used interchangeably in these discussions, but you are right, they are not the same. A quarantine, as I have been at pains elsewhere to point out, is the sequestering of the sick from the healthy population. Quarantines have been shown to be an effective means of reducing contagion from antiquity. This is not what we have now.

    What we have now are lockdowns. A lockdown is the sequestering of a healthy population. A lockdown may slow the rate of the spread of the virus for awhile (e.g., “flatten the curve”), but there is absolutely no empirical, scientific evidence that a lockdown will result in less morbidity or mortality in the end.

  192. Hail says: • Website
    @Peter Frost

    “It’s no worse than a bad flu.”

    If that is what the data says, what is the point in committing emotionally to the media-promoted idea that it is Much Worse Than the Flu?

    “I am convinced that Coronavirus mortality rate will not even show up as a peak in annual mortality.” — Klaus Püschel, head of forensic medicine at Hamburg, Germany

    __
    Sweden Vindicated; Just The Flu Vindicated.”

    Sweden’s epidemic is now in sustained decline for over a week.

    Sweden’s actual coronavirus-positive deaths (same graph as above in blue) vs. the Imperial College “Drop Everything and Panic NOW” wild-projections:
    _

  193. Hail says: • Website
    @Anonymous Jew

    Just because a public policy decision can be proven to save lives doesn’t mean it’s the best course of action. Otherwise we’d have a 10 mph speed limit and sugar would be illegal.

    Sweden was running plenty of spare hospital capacity even at its peak period for deaths, which is now approaching two weeks ago.

    Sweden was right.

    As for the how many expected-life-years the Lockdowns will cost us vs. how many are saved by the extremist Lockdowns, I don’t think a fair calculation makes it even close. The Lockdowns will cost literally hundreds of times as many lost life-years. I invite anyone to try a comprehensive calculation and see what you come up with.

    • Agree: Anonymous Jew
    • Replies: @Anonymous Jew
  194. Alfred says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    Comparing a sparsely populated country to one of the most densely populated cities in the world. Only something a retard would do.

    Resorting to insults proves that you are not a person with a useful argument.

    If your NYC healthcare system stinks, that is your problem. If you have too many old fat obese people, that is also your problem. I don’t know why the rest of the world has to lockdown due to your gross incompetence.

    NYC offered 10,000$ a week to nurses to take care if 12 patients per day. That job offering was to the entire country.

    And I saw a video online of a whole bunch – 50-80 – outside one of these hospitals. They were all smiles, without masks and not keeping apart. They were queueing up to have their photos taken. Nearby was a big line of NYFD trucks that were hooting as they left the scene. I guess those nurses must have been overwhelmed.

    As for those mass graves that they like to show us. How many hundreds of people in NYC die every day without the ones being left behind being able to pay $10,000 for a cremation? Do they dump them in the sea? Everyone knows that half Americans don’t have $1000 in savings.

    Here is a news report I found. It does not show the nurses – for obvious reasons. But everyone is all smiles. The firemen even donned masks to please the newsmen. 🙂

    VIDEO: New York firefighters support, thank hospital workers

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
    , @Alfred
  195. Alfred says:
    @Iris

    Thank you Iris.

    However, picking on localities is not very useful in these situations. Everyone knows that infections trash certain areas or communities more than the general population. NYC is a typical example.

    But just because NYC has lots of elderly obese people who lead unhealthy lives and have pre-existing conditions does not mean that California should also suffer.

    Personally, I am 69. I am fortunate because I have looked after myself. My BMI is 24. Why should I and the vast majority of people who are younger than I am and who have much more active lives pay for the sheer greed for instant gratification of others? It makes no sense. Everyone has a “sell by date”. Anyway, plenty of people are dying now because of stress and fear of going for treatment.

    I think the young are the future and they should be protected from this sort of nonsense. I am sure that if parents could vote on behalf of their kids, there would be none of this lockdown business.

    It seems to me that the West has opted to favour the elderly and the sick. That is not a good strategy.

  196. Thomasina says:
    @Kim

    A very good description! Comedy as far as the eye can see.

  197. Jaylonw says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    You are correct, there is no stopping the stupid and the callous

  198. Alfred says:
    @The Grim Joker

    Thank you for a dose of common sense. 🙂

    I think real criminals are going to do very well out of the forthcoming mayhem – I am not talking about pickpockets and house burglars. They will be able to save a lot of their closest. Beautiful women will compete for their favours. The police is of course the official branch of criminality. They will also do magnificently well. It is not unusual for a policeman to have a brother who is a criminal – same trade.

    Where I am, in eastern Europe, I see people going through the bins many times per day. Some of them seem to be collecting bottles and plastics. Others seem to be looking for food. But I can see nothing edible in the rubbish that I discard. It won’t be long before it is the same in places like London and Paris. Governments everywhere are going bust.

    The suckers who fell for this scam are going be kicked below the belt in a most painful way. They will be happy if their daughters qualify for this sort of listing (divide by 27 to get USD)

    Natasha Escort

    Prices are less than half in the provinces.

    • Replies: @Biff
    , @Biff
    , @The Grim Joker
  199. Alfred says:
    @Anonymous

    Could you share the line of reasoning behind these guesstimates?

    To the best of my knowledge, there are no published numbers for China. If anyone knows better, please provide links.

    I suspect that 20% is enough to make it die out in a population. The other figure is pure fiction. A guess.

    One thing is certain. The idea that the percentage should be the inverse of R0 is nonsense. We are social animals and some people are vastly more social than others. They get infected first and they become the barrier between the infection and the uninfected.

    I tried to explain this to doctors a long time ago. I invented the virtual anonymous vaccine for HIV. It has been approved by the FDA. All that is needed to make HIV die out in a society is to isolate the few who have a huge number of partners. My concept does that ethically. Doctors cannot understand it as they think in a linear way. A simulation would prove what I am saying regardless of the initial inputs. With some parameters, it would take longer than with others but the trend would be relentless and unmistakable.

    Method of controlling transmission of defects (1987)

  200. refl says:
    @The Grim Joker

    What this means as everyone knows is that if the same rubbish is hyped on an hourly basis it takes a hardened cold cynic to stick with his logic and conclusions

    Agree. The fact that I called the corona thing rubbish from the start and have remained steadfast all the time, is proof of my cynicism, and I would prefer to be a nicer person. But how, with such numbers of fools around (and I am not even very intelligent myself).

    As for the host’s opinion, allowing this article is quite something, given his own coronaist position. Hopefully, there will be more chances for corona criticism in the future.

    The one thing that I would like to add, which is missing from the article is, that the real damage is not even economic or social, but it is SPIRITUAL. The western world is centered on the principle of civil liberties. Now, in the mass society this principle has always been somewhat hollow, but only with corona we have learned that civil liberties can be abolished across the western world, across all its different states and governments, at one stroke, and the populace will not even ask. This draws the line under two centuries of liberal society. We can savely clean out all the arts departments across the western world. They are pointless.

    And not only that: What are lawyers worth, who let this happen? Doctor, who do not call out the senselessness and even suicidal dangers of the measures taken? What are political parties worth, who calmly stop their arguing and go into home office, when told that there is a virus outside?

    Revolutions and coups used to be bloody. We all have learned the stories at school – and now this!

    • Replies: @The Grim Joker
  201. Kim says:
    @Ron Unz

    I remember around March, Anglin was freely saying the whole thing was going to be a total disaster in America due to Trump’s incompetence, and huge numbers of people would die. And I think he even said how shocked he was at how absurdly easily the Trump people were finding it to deflect the blame on China, even though that made absolutely no sense.

    So I suspect that he realized the “China bioweapon” story was just too well entrenched among (gullible) right-wing activists to be easily dislodged with more plausible information when the topic really became hot in America around then. And he decided to launch a clever flank attack instead, and focus on the “It’s Just the Flu!!!” nonsense, which had also been floating around in fringe circles.

    So now you have appointed yourself as the Grand Lord Explainer of Andrew Anglin?

    Well, let me give you a tip. Your interpretations aren’t needed. In fact, they are grotesquely impudent. Andrew Anglin is a very big boy who makes his opinions very clear. Even more – unlike most – he is perfectly capable of changing his mind when he gets more information and of providing public explanations of why he does so.

    You see, Andrew Anglin is one of the greatest communicators the Internet has yet seen. One clue to this has been how energetic his immensely powerful enemies have been in their attempts to shut him down. They recognize his rhetorical and intellectual power.

    But despite these vociferous attempts to gag him, Andrew Anglin still today has a public website where people can go and read his views.

    So the last thing in the world he needs is your “explanations”. Perhaps you should do us all a favor and try to stick to speaking just for yourself.

  202. cranc says:
    @cranc

    On the stats of excess mortality (relative to other years), and the proportion of those that were non-covid (UK), this is an excellent page of graphs and explanation:
    http://inproportion2.talkigy.com/

  203. refl says:
    @thordaddy

    Suicide rates are the next thing to look out for. Over the next months there will be spikes in any case, due to the economic distress caused by the lockdowns.
    For now, my acquaintances working in hospitals say that the hospitals are empty, but from other sources I have heard that suicides are rising. However, the information is regional and not very powerful yet.

    What I always have wondered about with these numbers games: In all countries, there is a certain underclass of people who normally escape the attention of the authorities and whose deaths will never be properly reported. There are illegals, elderlies without family and no social contacts, all the drop outs from society who live on the streets. There is a number of destitute people, and when there is a health crisis, they will be the worst affected.

    This means that when ever the authorities have a motivation to once take a closer look, they will find a spike in mortality. This need not be intentional. It just so happens.

    The whole discussion is based on the assumption that our health care systems are functional in normal circumstances. We all know that to a varying and mounting degree they are not.

  204. Tadeo says:
    @Wally

    This is not the flu. Comparing the IFR vs. the CFR is like comparing apples and oranges. Covid19 is 20 to 40 times more lethal than the seasonal flu. If you don’t wanna believe it, that’s your problem. The virion latches into the epithelial cells of the upper respiratory tract lining, the lungs, the heart and kidneys and it creates blood clots all over the place. If you’re a senior you’re a goner once you go into the ICU, but younger people also die, even kids. I live in Spain and I’ve seen it with my own eyes. So go ahead, feel free to go to your alt-right demostrations and spas without a face mask. You’ll be dead in 50 days. Let darwin take over.

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  205. Locktite says:

    Sweden:

    – Very low population density outside urban areas.
    – Native population (around 70%): Cultural practices and living patterns lend themselves very well to social distancing. Swedes keep a distance, don’t hug, don’t kiss. Elderly Swedes almost never live together with younger ones, families are small, lots of urban Swedes are single. Native Swedes also use their cars a lot.
    – MENA and African population (maybe around 20%, the rest are Asians, Europeans, Latinos, Eastern Europeans, very few Americans and Canadians): Cultural practices and living patterns are almost diametrically opposed to those of the native Swedes. They live cramped together in housing estates in the suburbs, families are large, three-generation households are quite common, they regularly meet up in large groups, they get very close when talking to each other, hug and kiss.

    Sweden didn’t “choose” it’s approach. Sweden is a failed state with an almost non-existent, almost powerless police force. (Look at the “other” Swedish epidemic, the ongoing bombings and gangland shootings.) Same situation with the armed forces. Sweden has spent several decades downgrading all sorts of preparedness, not only the police and armed forces, to pay for leftist policies, chiefly the influx of third-world immigrants but more recently also climate policies. The Swedish state is so weak, it could not even enforce mask-wearing, let alone a lock-down. The Swedish government just did what it could do, and got lucky with it. A tradition of negligence towards the elderly helped a lot in this regard. Conditions in Swedish care homes have been appalling for a long time before the epidemic started. It’s all part of paying for the leftist utopia.

    That in and of itself does not mean that the Swedish approach is to be dismissed. It just needs be kept in mind. It’s too early to tell who the Swedish experiment will work out, though an almost eugenic culling of the elderly is clearly playing big part in it. Anybody who lauds the Swedish approach should be so honest as to admit to this fact.

    Sweden relies on the majority of its native population practicing “enough” social distancing, a social distancing that people find relatively easy to maintain due the lifestyle they already have by default. That allows other parts of the population, chiefly MENA and African immigrants, to carry on as usual. Inner-city liberals also tend to go about business as usual. These groups get more affected by Covid-19 but hospitals have been able to cope although the strain is getting bigger. The newest development has it that ICU patients from Stockholm are being transferred to other regions. Again, besides all other factors, it’s only because the elderly are dying en masse why everything “works”.

    And by the way, only grammar schools are closed. Child care facilities, basic schools, and middle schools are all open.

  206. @Iris

    I disagree about the way you presented the first factor on your list. I made a distinction between total lockdown (China was the only country to have done something close to that, albeit with some delay), and the half-assed lockdowns that Western countries are doing. In China, it apparently worked: the pandemic was controlled, and the toll on the economy was considerable but limited. In Western countries, it is apparently not working, and God only knows the extent of the damage — present and future — to the economy.

    So it was better to have recession and less deaths, rather than recession AND high death toll.

    If that was what they thought, they were really clueless. Because I am frankly not sure we will be having less deaths. The death count that matters is the one *after* this situation is over. We are not even close to that. And, as I said, the choice should have been between *less* recession which would come from either extreme policies of *no intervention* and *suppression*, and *more* recession that comes from a half-assed policy of *mitigation*.

    As for you second factor, I agree that it is a *very* plausible hypothesis, but I don’t understand why you say I forgot to take it into account. I took it into account, and it is implicitly mentioned in my comment in the phrase “for reasons which are easy to imagine”.

    Anyway, thanks for the reply.

    Now let’s hope someone addresses the point I raised in my comments #145 and #170, which I take the liberty of repeating here, though it is unrelated to your reply:

    When comparing the absolute numbers of deaths by Flu and Covid-19, shouldn’t people take into account that a lot of people are immunized against the Flu through vaccination?

    Furthermore, one can’t justify the assertion that Covid-19 is worse than the Flu *as diseases considered strictly in and of themselves* by computing additional overall deaths, because you don’t know the number of additional deaths in the situation of no vaccine against the Flu.

    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
  207. Alfred says:
    @Anonymous

    These numbers are very interesting, but what are they based on

    I found something that should give you some food for thought – it is Germany.

    However, the subtitle insinuates that we need to reach 100%. That is absolute nonsense. I think 20% is about right for Europe.

    Please also note how they suggest that it is the fault of socialising as you can see in their photo. Of course, the article nowhere mentions that the number of deaths from chest infections is below that of the previous few years. Essentially, we have top-notch liars working in tandem in all media.

    Blood tests show 14% of people are now immune to covid-19 in one town in Germany (MIT) – Surveys of who has been infected show the pandemic still has far to go before it burns out

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
    , @Anonymous
  208. Just like the 9/11 psyop and false flag event , the Coronavirus pandemic was many years in the making, and that is why many investigators are calling it a planned-demic or plandemic .The script writers for these events have been leaving a trail of predictive programming/revelation of the methods over a period of 30 to 40 years , see for example :”Coronavirus Predictive Programming Exposed” dollarvigilante.com and “9/11 predictive programming(compilation of cartoons and movies)”YouTube. The Vigilant Citizen also has a number of articles on predictive programming and a recent one entitled “‘Order out of chaos’ :How the elite’s plans were foretold in popular culture”vigilantcitizen.com. It is hard to believe that both the 9/11 psyop and the Coronavirus psyop were meticulously planned over a period of 30 to 40 years or more.

  209. @Brás Cubas

    A small clarification. In the following paragraph:

    Furthermore, one can’t justify the assertion that Covid-19 is worse than the Flu *as diseases considered strictly in and of themselves* by computing additional overall deaths, because you don’t know the number of additional deaths in the situation of no vaccine against the Flu.

    What I meant was:

    Furthermore, one can’t justify the assertion that Covid-19 is worse than the Flu *as diseases considered strictly in and of themselves* by computing additional overall deaths, because you don’t know what the number of deaths by the Flu would have been in former years in the situation of no vaccine against the Flu.

  210. Tor597 says:
    @utu

    Do you have a source on this?

    • Replies: @utu
  211. Biff says:
    @Alfred

    It is not unusual for a policeman to have a brother who is a criminal – same trade.

    Ha! I did actually LOL!

  212. @Ron Unz

    I’ve been tracking the total weekly death rate in NY State. Shared some of the data on Gilad Atzmon’s thread:

    https://www.unz.com/gatzmon/corona-crisis-a-viral-episode-or-a-half-time-nightmare/#comment-3862815

    The data from NY State is very instructive, but certain groups just will not accept the the numbers. Diluting data from hot spots with national level data early in an epidemic makes no sense. But otherwise intelligent people are doing it over and over.

    But since I expect that this article will attract lots of the many Flu Hoaxers who hang around this website, mostly I think because they’ve been banned everywhere else

    Yeah, well it’s not just the Flu Hoaxers that get banned. I started a twitter account to share the NY State data with family and friends that were in denial and was frozen out of the account in less than 24 hours. I had zero followers an no retweets, though my charts were getting many views. Unbelievable. I think you’ll enjoy some of the charts as they clearly debunk the hoax narrative.

    • Thanks: Alfred
  213. Biff says:
    @Alfred

    Smokin’ link. I spent some time in Ukraine(Odessa), and one night out I met some ladies(they needed money for college). They were sisters, but not the Catholic type – if you get what I am saying. They insisted it was gonna be two on one – I felt out numbered the whole way through…

    • LOL: Alfred
  214. bjondo says:

    Additional Fauxci-19 news:

    Reason Grand Canyon and Meteor Crater are closed:

    These are where the F-19 bodies are being mass buried. Both are filled to the top.

    5 dancing shlomos

  215. @refl

    You are quite right you know. These days there seems to be no goodwill toward others, and every good deed requires a cash payment. It is a dog eat dog world now with no-one helping the next man unless there is something in it for the helper. That must be why there are so many people with mental illness.

    It must be the most terrible thing to need help and no one will even give you a piece of stale bread and even worse to feel nobody cares whether you live or die. Your point is well made and this state of affairs erodes the soul of the person needing help and the ones who could extend it.

    And of course as you mentioned this spiritual death is prevalent in the individuals responsible for this fiasco who care only for their own well being and care not a whit for those suffering and those about to suffer.

    This kind of callousness makes good people turn bad and presently a good person is looked upon as an aberration and a freak. This is where we stand and what we are in this 21st Century.

  216. @Alfred

    Alfred, in New York, the richest city in the richest country in the world (???) people are rummaging through the garbage cans. If you eat a slice of pizza and dump the crust this becomes a meal for some street dweller. Further soda cups, soda cans and beverage cups of all sorts are extracted from the trash and drained. In some cases especially in affluent areas street denizens are prepared to initiate violence if their garbage can territory is disrespected by other impoverished individuals. Now with all the restaurants closed the garbage containers in the back alleys are empty adding to the murderous emotions of the hungry and disenfranchised. All in the city of milk and honey and the land of plenty !

  217. @Alfred

    There really needs to be a culling program for retards like you. Doesn’t matter if a genuine retard or a paid for one, both needs to be culled. Judging by the retard lvl of your comments, you have to be the first category.

  218. Peter Frost says: • Website
    @Robert Dolan

    That’s the Jmedia narrative.

    The Jewish community, like most people, was initially indifferent. It’s silly to be paranoid when almost everyone started off being a COVID skeptic, both on the political left and the political right.

    For what it’s worth, I stopped subscribing to cable TV and the local newspaper a long time ago. Nor do I go to church anymore. The reason? I was sick of the political bias and political messaging.

    80K died of the flu in 2018, and I doubt that Covid will be higher

    Officially, the 2017-2018 flu season killed 61,099 Americans. If we analyze excess mortality, the death toll may have been 80,000.

    But, then, if we want to compare apples to apples, we should apply the same methodology to COVID-19. The COVID-19 death toll may then be twice as high.

    In the early weeks of the coronavirus epidemic, the United States recorded an estimated 15,400 excess deaths, nearly two times as many as were publicly attributed to covid-19 at the time, according to an analysis of federal data conducted for The Washington Post by a research team led by the Yale School of Public Health.

    The analysis suggests that the deaths announced in the weeks leading up to April 4, based on reports from state public health departments, failed to capture the full impact of the pandemic. Those incomplete numbers were widely cited at a time when many states were making critical decisions about closing businesses and taking other actions to stem the spread of the virus.
    The analysis also suggests that the death toll from the pandemic is significantly higher than has been reported, said Daniel Weinberger, a Yale professor of epidemiology and the leader of the research team. As of Sunday, more than 54,000 people had been killed by the novel coronavirus, according to numbers reported by state health departments and compiled by The Post.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2020/04/27/covid-19-death-toll-undercounted/?arc404=true

    Note that flu and pneumonia deaths are down…..probably because they are now re-labeled “Covid.”

    That is very unlikely. Testing for the virus or the antibody is routine in hospitals. Nor would that explanation account for the sharp rise in excess deaths. Flu deaths are down because people are practicing social distancing.

    .JF had a graph showing that total number of deaths are not out of line this year compared to years past….and the same for Sweden as well.

    False.

  219. @utu

    Actually, there is a tiny issue with that phrase of yours “It’s just a flu”. The version I keep hearing is slightly different: “It’s just *the* flu”. I will try to explain why both are different in meaning and why one is probably already discredited by the available statistics, whereas the other is not necessarily so.

    (1) “It’s just the flu.” This is the more widely propagated one, apparently. Lately some data has come out that the total number of deaths in recent months are noticeably bigger than in previous years. That implies that some new cause of death has appeared. There is a good chance that it’s the new coronavirus. Those who say “it’s just the flu” mean that no new disease has appeared this year and those diagnosed with Covid-19 are actually just sick with the good old flu. They are probably wrong. Some new disease *has* probably appeared, otherwise the number of deaths wouldn’t have spiked.

    (2) “It’s just a flu”. This version is not as commonly heard. In this thread, however, for some reason it appears to be more discussed than number (1). It just says that this new disease is no worse than the ordinary flu. This hypothesis is probably not disproven yet, and anyway, even if incorrect, is probably a lot closer to the truth than number (1). However, I have an objection to people who discuss this hypothesis on this thread, which may be summarized thus:

    One can’t justify the assertion that Covid-19 is worse than the Flu — speaking strictly of their respective pathological manifestations — by computing additional overall deaths in 2020, because one doesn’t know what the number of deaths by the Flu would have been in former years in a situation of no existing vaccine against the Flu.

  220. @Hail

    We can have fun with this. If you’re very generous to the lockdown proponents and grant, for example, that the lockdowns saved 50,000 lives, that’s still only one life saved for every 6,000+ Americans. But the life saved isn’t really saved, because the typical victim will only have lived about an extra 5 years. Let’s be generous and say 10.

    So over 6,000 people are negatively affected for months – some for many years – for each life extended. Lost weddings and graduations, public and private debt, job loss, resource opportunity costs, loss of civil rights etc. If we equate that to an average of one month loss of life for each person, that’s 500 years of lost life to extend one person’s life by 10 years. Even if it’s only equivalent to one week loss of life it’s not even close to worth it.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  221. geokat62 says:
    @Anonymous Jew

    We can have fun with this.

    With my best Greta impersonation…

    “How dare you?”

    Making levity when precious lives are at stake?

    With my best impersonation of Special Counsel for the Army, Joseph N. Welch…

    “Have you no sense of decency, Sir?”

    Your problem, AJ, like mine is that you are too rational. This is a great curse when condemned to live in CLOWN WORLD!

  222. utu says:

    MORE evidence smoking may cut the risk of coronavirus: Review of 28 studies shows number of smokers among hospitalised patients is ‘lower than expected’ as expert admits the mounting findings are ‘weird’
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8264635/More-proof-smokers-risk-catching-coronavirus-expert-admits-weird.html

  223. @Alfred

    Contact tracing is being inserted into the public vocabulary, psyche, and sense of normalcy.

    I’m eager for one of the Unz writers to take it on.

    I’d like to know:

    Scenario A. Subject N exhibits symptoms of Covid-19 bubonic plague virus. Subject N’s activities and interactions — contacts — are traced by seizing your cell phone, demanding passwords to access data on it, tracks down every place you’ve been and every person you’ve spent more than 10 minutes in contact with.

    Each contactee is, presumably, tested for presence of Covid-19.
    Are contactee’s required to submit to this test?
    Is this a violation of contactee’s Constitutional rights to be secure in his person?

    Contactee n 730059 does NOT agree to be tested but is forcibly tested.
    Contactee n 730059’s test returns Positive.

    How can it be ascertained that n 730059’s positive result is ascribable to contact with Subject N?

    Must every one of n 730059’s contacts be tracked down and tested?

    Scenario B: Given that the guardians of the surveillance state are so determined to use their new toy, contact tracing; and given that the guardians of the surveillance state are so humanely concerned to certify that all are healthily protected against Covid-19 — by vaccination, in their wet dream fantasy — If Subject V voluntarily submits to contact tracing: his contacts over the last 14 days are acquired by the “army of tracers” that TPTB intends to hire, and contacts are checked for presence of Covid-19.
    If no contact exhibits Covid-19, is Subject V entitled to a Certificate of Acceptability to move about in society unmolested?

  224. anon[361] • Disclaimer says:
    @Iris

    . . . then there are the insurance companies.

    It has to be the case that insurers demanded the hospitals adopt certain measures, whether it made sense medically or not.

    • Replies: @Iris
  225. vinteuil says:
    @utu

    The response to this pandemic reveals a lot about people and their national character. The “It’s just a flu” brigade epitomizes what deep down America is and what always was. Tocqueville, Dickens and D.H. Lawrence saw it an wrote about it.

    The weird thing about you, utu, is that you always start out coming across as perfectly literate in English – and then, about half way through, everything kind of falls apart!

    Congratulations, btw, on your 11,000th post! I’ve been hanging out here way longer than you, and I’m not even close to that!

    BTW – do you ever get these warnings from RKU to calm down & stop posting so much?

    • Replies: @utu
  226. Iris says:
    @anon

    It has to be the case that insurers demanded the hospitals adopt certain measures, whether it made sense medically or not.

    Furthermore, it is estimated by the WHO that 1 out of 6 people contaminated by the SARS-CoV-2 virus is a medic.
    It is also believed that the bigger the viral load (the quantity of virus a person is exposed to), the more severe the symptoms, so medics are a high-risk category of its own.

    How long can the hecatomb of medical personnel go on before they go on strike, or even walk out from their jobs at the hospitals?

    May be there are countries where health workers are so desperate to pay their rent that they may accept to work until they die, but that won’t be the case in Europe.

    In the UK, the number of frontline medical staff who has died from Covid 19 is believed to be over 100 already. Hoaxers can call them old, or fat, or whatever they wish, the point is that their death was preventible and they would not have died if not for fighting the pandemic to save others. Such a situation cannot go on forever.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa/article-8265203/The-NHS-care-workers-died-coronavirus-pandemic.html

    • Replies: @9/11 Inside job
    , @Alfred
  227. utu says:
    @vinteuil

    “…do you ever get these warnings…” – Yes. Then I go to another thread of which I even know less and do the same.

    • Replies: @vinteuil
  228. Anonymous[355] • Disclaimer says:
    @Alfred

    However, the subtitle insinuates that we need to reach 100%. That is absolute nonsense. I think 20% is about right for Europe.

    20% seems very low. That means a 20% reduction in R number which means R 1.2 becomes R 1. I thought flu was more like 3-4 to begin with?

  229. schrub says:

    Years ago a college professor of mine assigned a little gem of of book entitled “”How To Lie With Statistics by Darrell Huff which has since provided me a good protective barrier when I am continually assaulted by the results a barrage constant “scientific studies”.

    This short book was first published in the mid 1950s and is so well thought of that it has never gone out of publication in sixty five years. It has also been translated into at least 22 languages.

    Why Covid’s sudden appearance? I commented a while back that John Williams of the esteemed website shadowstats had issued a very ominous warning in December that the economic situation of the US had reached a such a precarious situation that what happened in 2008 might end up being just small potatoes.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadowstats.com

    The very informative first page on this site is free. You have to pay for the really juicy stuff however. Check out Williams’ figures on actual inflation (5,5%) or actual unemployment (22% pre-Covid and far more now). When the inevitable hyperinflation starts you will read about its true extent on Shadowstats first.

    Once Covid appears, seemingly out of nowhere , and the quarantines begin other things start happening. No more pesky Yellow Vests in France. Macron breathes far easier as does Angela Merkel. No more Catalonian protests in Spain. Covid just happens to save Prime Minister (and American and Israeli puppet) Modi’s butt in India as well. How utterly convenient.

    John Williams would be a great writer for UNZ. No one else is as well versed in the economic shenanigans of the US government or knows how the statistics are manipulated, The upcoming war for public opinion on Covid will of course be based on statistics. It might be a good to have a sharpshooter like Williams lined up to decipher what is actually going on. I think Paul Craig Roberts will second me on this recommendation. Trump, if he was really capable of playing three dimension chess rather than his current bumbling game of checkers, should also seek out Williams to give him at least semblance of knowing what the hell he is talking about when he is besieged by the upcoming battle based on deluge of graphs and figures..

    Ron, Williams is just an hour away from you up in bucolic Petaluma. It might be time for phone call to there and maybe jump onto your Harley Davidson chopper (or maybe into your Fiat Jolly) for a little trip up north. I guarantee the visit will be both fascinating and VERY disturbing.

    As regard the “notorious” publisher Andrew Anglin publisher and chief writer of The Daily Stormer, all of the common avenues of revenue have been shut off to him. He has been so thoroughly blacklisted that no credit card payments or bank payments are allowed for him. He has been denied all other funding sources like Patreon or anything similar either as well.. He has truly become an economic non-person. He can receive Bitcoin however, which might be instructive to people who wonder why Bitcoin exists and whether it might be a good idea to own a few just in case their own favorite websites suffer the same economic situation as Anglin now suffers.

    • Thanks: 9/11 Inside job, Alfred
  230. Crazy Horse says: • Website
    @follyofwar

    Hey none of us are perfect. I fell for Covid 19 being a “deadly bioweapon” meme promoted by VT through Clinton loving Trump hating Duff then looking at the actual numbers. I started going wait a minute! If this was a Bioweapon then it was a real dud that should be called Mannlicher-Carcano 19 instead.

    Sometimes we underestimate our enemies but in this case we overestimated their diabolical abilities somewhat.

    Anyway I’m just saying there’s enough guilt to go around. There are very few in the beginning who can now say “I told ya so”. Also I agree with Mike in reversing the metaphor that we just can’t suddenly leap out of the hole we’ve all dug ourselves in but at some point we’re going to have to crawl our way out and realize that we’ve been played.

    ‘Nuff said.

  231. Alfred says:
    @Alfred

    Here is a possible explanation of the New York numbers

    Insane “Murder” Going on in NYC Hospitals RN Discloses

  232. @Iris

    The Daily Mail is not a reputable source for news :”Overall we rate the Daily Mail questionable due to numerous failed fact checks and poor sourcing of information.” mediabiasfactcheck.com

  233. @Alfred

    Two toddlers killed in lockdown knife horror

    But did they test positive for Coronavirus?

  234. Alfred says:
    @Iris

    The NHS is by far the largest employer in the UK with 1,560,000 employees according to Jewpedia. The British Army has only 125,000 employees – most of them in administration, training, logistics and so on as the fighting force is actually tiny.

    People in the NHS are largely female and their average age is around 45. Many NHS staff drink too much and smoke. They are not a healthy subset of the population. I was once invited to a doctor’s club at the Stoke-on-Trent hospital. The beer arrived from a nearby brewery by tanker not by keg. I am not exaggerating. My best friend is a retired GP. You should see the size of his paunch. He smoked like a chimney for most of his life. Last year, he drank 15 pints of Guinness in one sitting. He likes to drink a pint of water between each pint of beer – for his health or so he says. BTW, GP’s and their staff do not work for the NHS directly.

    How difficult do you think it is for the Daily Mail to conjure up your statistics. Hundreds of NHS employees die every day. 🙂

    If you look at the chart below, almost all the tapering off to the right is people dying. No one leaves the NHS voluntarily at age 50 and above. They have a very generous pensions scheme.

    • Thanks: 9/11 Inside job
  235. @TG

    what if people who have been infected don’t get lasting immunity?

    Totally normal. The infection was so trivial the immune system wasn’t stressed enough to produce antibodies.

    • Agree: Alfred
  236. @450.org

    it said “Sacrifice The Weak.” No lie.

    What’s the alternative?

    What do we want?
    Immortality!
    When do we want it?
    Now!

  237. @Tadeo

    ” Covid19 is 20 to 40 times more lethal than the seasonal flu. ”

    Where is the proof of this statement? Even if it’s buried in your lower alimentary process, please dig it out and display it when you make that statement.

    “If you don’t wanna believe it, that’s your problem. ”

    No, it’s your problem since you’re the one offering the statement without presenting any proof as the basis for belief.

  238. Most people who discuss or model the relative effectiveness of the various policies to fight this pandemic forget to take into account the psychological angle. They use essentially static or linear models, when reality, especially in what regards human psychology, is dynamic and nonlinear in nature.

    The crucial shortcoming of the so-called ‘mitigation’ approach (which mitigates nothing, and in fact aggravates the problem, as I shall explain) is that human psychology does not respond in a linear fashion to stimulus. People frequently allude to the ‘irrational’ component in human psyche, but I think that term is not appropriate. That so-called irrationality is actually a non-linear component, which produces in some cases chaotic results in a social scale.

    Take an extremely simple instance of this: normally, beaches are not very dangerous places; people keep a reasonable distance from one another, except for people within the same family which already live under the same roof, and so wouldn’t be at increased risk. This is the normal situation. But now examine what happens when you close beaches for an extended period, and then reopen them. The repressed demand would produce a synchronized desire and disposition for going to the beach, which in turn would make them overcrowded and, thus, more dangerous than they normally are. The same goes for shopping malls, etc. I guess you could control the number of people who enter a shopping mall at a given period, but how are you going to do that for a beach?

    As I said, this is but a simple instance.

    As a matter of fact, the whole problem with our technological thinking is that it suffers from that same static paradigm. Progresses in medicine have increased man’s life expectancy for ages now, in a gradually accumulating process. That is like a house built on very shaky foundations. A whiff of wind would be enough to bring it down, and that is what we are seeing right now. This new virus is that whiff of wind. In the absence of all that medical progress, unhealthy or very old people would be dying of natural causes in a temporally spaced manner along the years, and it wouldn’t be cause of great social or economic distress. Also, healthy lifestyles would be greatly valued in the absence of easy medical solutions for health problems derived from unhealthy lifestyles. Now, with this virus, unhealthy people are dying all at a sudden, and the response to that distressing problem is provoking even greater social and economic distress.

    Technology in a capitalist system is the result of a capitalist way of thinking. That way of thinking only cares for short term results, and only cares for the individual. It does not think ahead in terms of costs and benefits in a social scale.

    There are only two kinds of solutions for a capitalist problem: the capitalist solution, i.e., live and let die (as per Ian Fleming’s phrase) or the end of capitalism. Middle path mitigating approaches are not going to work.

    • Replies: @Alfred
  239. cranc says:
    @Ron Unz

    Ron, Are there any serology studies which show the IFR anywhere near 1% that you favour ?
    I keep reading references to studies emerging which all seem to put the estimate between 0.1% and 0.3%, with NY being an upper end 0.6%, the weighted average being 0.17%
    https://twitter.com/EthicalSkeptic/status/1255503711822118915/photo/1
    Here is yet another :
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.24.20075291v1.full.pdf

    • Agree: geokat62
    • Replies: @Boomertechnocrat
  240. Alfred says:
    @Brás Cubas

    I agree entirely about life being full of dynamic systems and discontinuities. People, such as our eminent host, are only capable of thinking in a linear way. Of course they think that the exponential curve is not linear. In geometric terms, it is not linear but as a system it most certainly is linear.

    It seems that they are surprised in the UK that some kids have some unknown chest infection. But there is nothing at all surprising in that when the unfortunates have been locked up and deprived of sunshine and “dirty” playgrounds for a month or more.

    A British trade publication for health-care professionals has just issued an extremely ominous warning. While the world is fixated on battling the coronavirus, a small group of British children have exhibited a mysterious new respiratory syndrome.

    According to the Health Service Journal, the Department of Health and Social Care has sent an urgent alert to general practitioners and pediatricians across Britain last week warning about a “serious coronavirus-related syndrome [that] may be emerging in the UK.”

    The alert comes following a suspicious spike in alarming respiratory cases in children, who typically don’t exhibit severe coronavirus symptoms, though children as young as a few months have died due to complications related to the coronavirus

    UK Warns Doctors About Mysterious New Respiratory Syndrome Appearing In Children

    • Agree: Brás Cubas
  241. Sparkon says:
    @The Thin Man

    No longer a strong suit of the specie.

    Generally this is a good comment, but the word you want is species, where the singular is the same as the plural. There are many species, and our species is Homo sapiens. The word “specie” refers to coins, like “gold doubloons and pieces of eight.” But perhaps it was merely your errant typo crashing fortuitously into one of my pet peeves.

    The graphs utu posted in his #129 shows San Francisco’s 2nd wave in early 1919, but this was actually the 3rd wave of the Spanish Flu, although apparently all 3 waves did not hit everywhere. By most accounts, the flu in 1918 mutated over the summer after the first wave had hit in the spring. In many places, the worst spike of the Spanish Flu occurred in October 1918, but then tailed off sharply by December, leading some authorities to think it was over.

    Mark Sykes arrived at the Peace Conference in early 1919, fell ill and reportedly died in Paris of the Spanish Flu on February 16, 1919, a date that coincides well with San Francisco’s 2nd wave. I have been looking for details about Sykes’s death, and I just found this nugget in The Irish Times, where I include a paragraph of background on Sykes:

    Sykes was sent to Petrograd and had an audience with Tsar Nicholas on March 7th, 1916. Just a year later the Russian Revolution effectively exposed the Sykes-Picot secret pact when the Bolsheviks raided the imperial archives and published the details in the hope of discrediting the administrations in Paris and London.

    Sykes was back in the Middle East on another mission …While in Syria he was afflicted by a virus; he was unable to keep food down and lived for 30 days on tins of condensed milk. Despite his illness he travelled to Paris in the hope of presenting a report to the Peace Conference. He was struck down by the Spanish flu, the deadly strain of influenza which wiped out tens of millions of people across the world at the end of the war. He died in Paris on February 16th, a day short of his 40th birthday.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/heritage/sir-mark-sykes-the-man-who-changed-the-face-of-the-middle-east-1.1958009

    The Paris Peace Conference opened officially on Jan. 18, 1919, and it looks like Sykes was already pretty ill before he ever got to France. Of course in 1918-1919, it was not known that the Spanish flu was caused by a virus.

    Research by the EcoHealth Alliance from 15 years ago had shown some villagers living near bat caves in S. China had been infected by novel coronaviruses from bats, and so these predictions and prognostications from the likes of Gates or Fauci should be seen in that light, i.e. insiders and well-informed people have known for some time that there was the potential, call it danger, for a bat coronavirus to jump to humans with a possible pandemic as the result.

    In my view, this is probably what happened, although the exact etiology and epidemiology of SARS-CoV-2’s journey from S. China to Wuhan may never be known, but plausibly might include several, rapid mutations.

    I’ve read that Chinese researchers have found that SARS-CoV-2 had mutated into dozens of strains among patients they studied, and found that the mutations in SARS-CoV-2 were significant

    They found that up to 270 times as much viral load was generated between the weakest and most aggressive strains. As the researchers wrote in the paper, this indicates “that the true diversity of the viral strains is still largely underappreciated.”

    https://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/preliminary-study-suggests-coronavirus-has-gained-mutations-capable-of-changing-its-virulence/

    And therein lies the danger. SARS-CoV-2 is a new thing. We don’t know what it will do. Polls show most Americans support the painful measures taken by the governors to contain the disease, probably because most sensible people recognize that it is indeed better to be safe than sorry.

    Our experience with colds and the flu shows that the viruses responsible for these largely seasonal maladies mutate from year to year. Having had a cold or the flu last year will not prevent you from catching either again this year. Viruses constantly mutate, and that is the reason there are new flu vaccines every year, and possibly the reason there were three big waves of the Spanish Flu, each representing an especially virulent and ultimately deadly mutation of the virus.

    Finally, as to the analogies about driving. It is not necessary to reduce the speed limit to 10 mph to reduce accidents and improve safety. Rather, all that is required is for all citizens to drive at the posted speed limit, so I thought I’d close this with a little humor.

    • Replies: @refl
  242. @Sean

    billionaires and their media lickspittles will do their utmost against him winning a second term

    They will indeed.

    But since, at least for the moment, the administration still has to be seen to be apparently adhering to the rules of ongoing “democratic” voting, and since under the current voting arrangements Trump will wipe the floor with the semi-senile, wholly corrupt and frighteningly-worthless Biden (who between decrepit old-age and various looming charges for sexual assault may not even make it to ballot-box day in November (anybody know what happens then ?)), that’s not a battle they now have a cat in hell’s chance of winning.

    Lying, arrogant, incompetent and (((terrifyingly-ignorant))) brain-dead Trump or not, he’s now the only remaining, piss-poor best of a disastrously god-awful set of screwed-up choices. Until you have something better, bring it on.

  243. @Exile

    This event will only be understood, and imperfectly at that, in hindsight. It’s charitable to call most of this prognostication an “educated” guess at this point.

    Absolutely true.

    But like so many here, you appear to have missed the whole point of the debate originated by this article:

    As a direct and unavoidable RESULT of that worthless guesswork, the powers- that-be have taken and are taking steps which are changing the world irremediably for the worse.

  244. @cranc

    NY State is the tip of the spear in the U.S. The NY data is informative in many ways, one being it included a period where Covid19 was spreading rapidly in a large, ambivalent and densely populated area. That’s probably the worst possible set of conditions, ignoring weather. And those conditions gave us good insight into how dangerous Covid19 can be.

    I stopped thinking in terms of IFR, although it would be nice to know! According to the data I’ve been following, behavior (distancing, masks, etc.) clearly matters, although the degree is debatable. NY shows that it’s arguably more important which group is infected rather than how many are infected (assuming one can fully recover). Covid19 is far more deadly to the aged, especially those that are obese and/or have underlying medical problems:

    NYC: 65+ : cases/100k = ~ 6184, deaths/100k =~ 1532/100k …….brutal
    0-44: cases/100k = ~684, deaths/100k =~ 15/100k …..bad, but actual cases > confirmed

    We know the ages in the above groupings but not the health. Similarly, we know fatality numbers but not actual infection numbers. Still, it’s worth considering that the ascertainment rate of total infections is less important than the distribution among age & health groups.

  245. vinteuil says:
    @utu

    – Yes. Then I go to another thread of which I even know less and do the same.

    “Know even,” not “even know.”

    Still curious about your native language, but, oh well. No doubt you have good reasons for not saying.

  246. utu says:
    @Ron Unz

    I have just found this:

    Russia and China Are Spreading Lies About Coronavirus, Pentagon Says (10 Apr 2020)
    https://www.military.com/daily-news/2020/04/10/russia-and-china-are-spreading-lies-about-coronavirus-pentagon-says.html

    It seems that what the hoaxers would find appealing was coming from Russia according to the DoD.

    In mid-March, Russian-backed, English-language websites were reporting “that there actually was no pandemic and that some deaths in Italy may have been caused by the common flu,” Cooper said.

    “In early January, we saw reports on several different Russian news sites claiming … it was really just Big Pharma in the United States spreading rumors about the virus in order to drum up business,”

    And what is interesting is that China backed away from accusations about the bioweapon issue according to the DoD.

    “They have since backed away from that narrative, and we have not seen … that in authoritative commentary or narratives from the Chinese since then,” he said. “If you take note of what their most recent Ministry of Foreign Affairs statements reflect, [it] is they don’t have an official position on the origins of that and will leave that to the scientific community to determine that over time.”

    • Replies: @refl
  247. refl says:
    @Sparkon

    https://vaccineimpact.com/2018/did-military-experimental-vaccine-in-1918-kill-50-100-million-people-blamed-as-spanish-flu/

    A commenter somewhere here left this link (and a huge thanks for doing so!) – that the Spanish Flu was no flu at all but a botched vaccine experiment on US soldiers who then spread it throughout Europe on arriving there.
    What would this narrative be like: Don’t be afraid of viruses but of greedy, reckless corporations trying to make money on your believe in the good intentions of your authorities?

    And this version is far more probable, because most flu deaths – as could be gathered from following corona criticism over the last weeks – don’t die from the flu but from superimposed bacterial infections. A virus lays the ground in debilitating the organism, on which any sort of infection will breed, bacteria always being far stronger, for they can breed on their own, while a virus dies out quickly outside a suitable host

    The thing is now, that in investigating a “flu”-victim any number of germs will be found that have settled in the weakened body. Now, the fashionable germ of the day is corona, and it is urgently needed to be proven as the virus of death, lest people question the wisdom of crashing the world economy for a relatively minor threat.
    I fear that this whole bean counting about statistics leads ever further away from the real story, which I find behind this bit from the Thin man commenter:

    The lock down response to the pandemic is a result of the success of the Chinese lock down in Wuhan and the Korean lock down in Seoul.

    Has anybody realized that the entire West is following the Chinese model and that we are (and this used to be for good reason, regardless of Chinas remarkable development) generally opposed to Chinese style handling of social affairs?
    Can people imagine that China (for good reason and with an informed view on history) does not really like the West?

    Apart from the fact that I am on the receiving end, I marvel at their superior sense of irony, as they railroad the entire, arrogant and pointless lot of western democracies into selfdestructing over a hyped hysteria.

    But then, I am just a stupid flu hoaxer, getting tired of pushing my losing narrative, that maybe the world is not trying to kill humanity, but that modern western society is just getting a potentially leathal reality injection.

  248. @450.org

    I am of the opinon that even if the Lockdown is not a means of flattening the curve, if the Government act fast with respect to testing, the states can open for business.

  249. refl says:
    @utu

    It seems that what the hoaxers would find appealing was coming from Russia according to the DoD.

    I am a hoaxer and I am used to being told that my points of view have been imposed on me as a Russian psychological warfare operation, which is interesting, as (just in case, Corona was psyop or involved elements of psyop) the DoD would of course never do anything like that.

    However, in my case, Russia was not involved but simply my own, perverted way of reasoning: Back in 2008/ 09 we were told about the extremely dangerous bird/ swine flu, and medication was bought at tremendous expenses by governments across the world.
    The result was 1) the threat ended up exponentially less dangerous then predicted, 2) the medication was a fraud, 3) the people making money on it were the PNAC types. With that experience, how could I take this thing seriously? And then, in 2008/ 09 I was a regular, newspaper-believing person. I did not even have a tinfoiled hat back than!

    What I missjudged, and this has happened to me every time since the West lost its senses post 9/11, was the seal of these people. Over recent years, I have come to the conclusion that they are going to set the world as we know it on fire, but I rather thought about islamic terrorists taking over Europe with guns and knives, so compared with my expectations, we are still fine and even would be if corona really was that killer thing.
    So, we are still at least two steps away from my predictions

    About corona, the story that I want to understand is, how they implemented their agenda, not how much or how little of it is true.

    • Replies: @utu
  250. utu says:
    @refl

    “…but simply my own, […] reasoning…” – Don’t worry. Nobody wants to take away from you the claim of originality. A good psyop uses what is out there and focuses on what can get a traction to get beyond the critical mass and obviously on what is the most damaging to the target of the psyop.

    Soviets did similar psyops in the past in the pre-internet era when it took more time and effort to cross the critical mass point:

    Operation Infektion
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Infektion

    but now in the internet era it can be done much faster:

    Internet Research Agency (Trolls from Olgino)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Research_Agency

  251. utu says:

    Sweden’s top virologist admits mistakes: Expert says too little was done to protect elderly, he wrongly predicted Wuhan would contain Covid-19 – but non-lockdown is NOT among his errors
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8273237/Swedens-virologist-admits-little-protect-elderly.html

    “Anders Tegnell said too little was done to protect people in care homes, which are thought to account for as many as half of Sweden’s 2,462 deaths. ”

    “Tegnell said in January that there was ‘no need to worry’ about the virus, arguing at the time that there was no reason to shut down travel from China. “

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  252. Anonymous[355] • Disclaimer says:
    @utu

    He, along with most independent experts, seems to favourite a selectively lockdown for vulnerable people and no compulsory restrictions for eveyone else. This would give the best of both worlds, as the Flu could blow over fast and give herd immunity, while the old people weather it out inside.

    It should still be noted he’s a lot happier with Sweden’s approach than the lockdown approach, which inconveniences eveyone and protects no one!

    Just like in world war 2, it seems Sweden has got it right again.

    • Replies: @Justvisiting
  253. Wally says:
    @utu

    And now, more on your nonsense:

    WHO hails Sweden as a ‘model’ for fighting coronavirus
    https://www.theblaze.com/news/who-hails-sweden-as-a-model-for-fighting-coronavirus-without-a-lockdown

    “I think if we are to reach a new normal, Sweden represents a model if we wish to get back to a society in which we don’t have lockdowns.”

    – WHO Chief Emergencies expert, Dr. Mike Ryan

  254. @Anonymous

    Those who site Sweden as the model of freedom from CV tyranny ignore the reality of what is happening in Sweden.

    Many US states that are “locked down” are more open than”open” Sweden.

    There are so many little details with this thing–and the broad rhetoric rarely matches the facts on the ground.

    The hysterical Internet rhetoric is another example–I can’t find one real local person screaming that their constitutional rights are violated and the “lockdowns” will last forever. In the real world folks accept that either the CV threat is real or the politicians believe that it is, and they will calmly muddle through until the emergency ends.

    This is called common sense, and it is stunningly uncommon on Internet forums of all sorts.

    • Replies: @Wielgus
  255. Wielgus says:
    @Justvisiting

    I pointed out that lockdowns cannot last forever on a site which shall remain nameless, and I attracted an angry response to what I would have thought was a common sense statement. They want lockdowns to go on and on…

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  256. geokat62 says:

    WHO hails Sweden as a ‘model’ for fighting coronavirus.

    Oops! How could they?

  257. geokat62 says:

    All that’s left to do is for the fat lady to sing.

    Chart of New York City daily deaths:

    NYC Covid Deaths

  258. geokat62 says:

  259. @Wielgus

    Indeed. As we see here, the alt-right and hard left are united in demanding that the lockdowns continue indefinitely, as more power is given to the very same corporate/neoliberal/capitalist state they claim to hate. They are far sicker than any virus could make us.

    • Agree: Wielgus
  260. Herald says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    Some people might wonder why anyone would trust a vaccine funded, in large part, by a eugenicist, who openly advocates for the reduction of the global population by the use of vaccines. These cynical people should be a lot more trusting of governments and of the oligarchs who control them.

  261. geokat62 says:

    Nobel prize winning scientist Prof Michael Levitt: lockdown is a “huge mistake”

    Description:

    As he is careful to point out, Professor Michael Levitt is not an epidemiologist. He’s Professor of Structural Biology at the Stanford School of Medicine, and winner of the 2013 Nobel Prize for Chemistry for “the development of multiscale models for complex chemical systems.”

    With a purely statistical perspective, he has been playing close attention to the Covid-19 pandemic since January, when most of us were not even aware of it. He first spoke out in early February, when through analysing the numbers of cases and deaths in Hubei province he predicted with remarkable accuracy that the epidemic in that province would top out at around 3,250 deaths.

    In this interview with Freddie Sayers, Executive Editor of UnHerd, Professor Levitt explains why he thinks indiscriminate lockdown measures as “a huge mistake,” and advocates a “smart lockdown” policy, focused on more effective measures, focused on protecting elderly people.

    Read the full accompanying article here: https://unherd.com/thepost/nobel-prize-winning-scientist-the-covid-19-epidemic-was-never-exponential/

    Favourite quotes:

    @ 31:30

    I often go back and think about what Socrates said 2,400 years ago: “use your common sense instead of listening to the rhetoric of leaders.”

    @ 33:20

    But, you guys [youth] should go out there and do something. Don’t accept this anymore. We [boomers] screwed it up too much.

    The article is a must read:

    [MORE]

    As he is careful to point out, Professor Michael Levitt is not an epidemiologist. He’s Professor of Structural Biology at the Stanford School of Medicine, and winner of the 2013 Nobel Prize for Chemistry for “the development of multiscale models for complex chemical systems.” He’s a numbers guy — as he told us in our interview, his wife says he loves numbers more than her — but then, much of modern science is really about statistics (as his detractors never tire of pointing out, Professor Neil Ferguson is a theoretical physicist by training).
    With a purely statistical perspective, he has been playing close attention to the Covid-19 pandemic since January, when most of us were not even aware of it. He first spoke out in early February, when through analysing the numbers of cases and deaths in Hubei province he predicted with remarkable accuracy that the epidemic in that province would top out at around 3,250 deaths.
    His observation is a simple one: that in outbreak after outbreak of this disease, a similar mathematical pattern is observable regardless of government interventions. After around a two week exponential growth of cases (and, subsequently, deaths) some kind of break kicks in, and growth starts slowing down. The curve quickly becomes “sub-exponential”.
    This may seem like a technical distinction, but its implications are profound. The ‘unmitigated’ scenarios modelled by (among others) Imperial College, and which tilted governments across the world into drastic action, relied on a presumption of continued exponential growth — that with a consistent R number of significantly above 1 and a consistent death rate, very quickly the majority of the population would be infected and huge numbers of deaths would be recorded. But Professor Levitt’s point is that that hasn’t actually happened anywhere, even in countries that have been relatively lax in their responses.
    He takes specific issue with the Neil Ferguson paper. “In a footnote to a table it said, assuming exponential growth of 15% for six days. Now I had looked at China and had never seen exponential growth that wasn’t decaying rapidly.”
    The explanation for this flattening that we are used to is that social distancing and lockdowns have slowed the curve, but he is unconvinced. As he put it to me, in the subsequent examples to China of South Korea, Iran and Italy, “the beginning of the epidemics showed a slowing down and it was very hard for me to believe that those three countries could practise social distancing as well as China.” He believes that both some degree of prior immunity and large numbers of asymptomatic cases are important factors.
    He also observes that the total number of deaths we are seeing, in places as diverse as New York City, parts of England, parts of France and Northern Italy, all seem to level out at a very similar fraction of the total population. “Are they all practising equally good social distancing? I don’t think so.” He disagrees with Sir David Spiegelhalter’s calculations that the totem is around one additional year of excess deaths, while (by adjusting to match the effects seen on the quarantined Diamond Princess cruise ship) he calculates that it is more like one month of excess death that is need before the virus peters out.
    More generally, he complains that epidemiologists only seem to be called wrong if they underestimate deaths, and so there is an intrinsic bias towards caution. “They see their role as scaring people into doing something, and I understand that… but in my work, if I say a number is too small and I’m wrong, or too big and I’m wrong, both of those errors are the same.”
    He believes the much-discussed R0 is a faulty number, as it is meaningless without the time infectious alongside.
    He describes indiscriminate lockdown measures as “a huge mistake,” and advocates a “smart lockdown” policy, focused on more effective measures, focused on protecting elderly people.

    I think the policy of herd immunity is the right policy. I think Britain was on exactly the right track before they were fed wrong numbers. And they made a huge mistake. I see the standout winners as Germany and Sweden. They didn’t practise too much lockdown and they got enough people sick to get some herd immunity. I see the standout losers as countries like Austria, Australia and Israel that had very strict lockdown but didn’t have many cases. They have damaged their economies, caused massive social damage, damaged the educational year of their children, but not obtained any herd immunity.

    “There is no doubt in my mind, that when we come to look back on this, the damage done by lockdown will exceed any saving of lives by a huge factor.
    – PROFESSOR MICHAEL LEVITT
    He is philosophical about the future and sees this as a generational mistake:

    I think this is another foul-up on the part of the baby boomers. I am a real baby boomer — I was born in 1947, I am almost 73 years old — but I think we’ve really screwed up. We’ve caused pollution, we’ve allowed the world’s population to increase threefold in my lifetime, we’ve caused the problems of global warming and now we’ve left your generation with a real mess in order to save a relatively small number of very old people.
    – PROFESSOR MICHAEL LEVITT
    It’s a view that doesn’t fit the narrative, but which we felt deserved to be heard.
    Please forgive quality issues on the video: Prof Levitt was joining us down the line from Tel Aviv and we had intermittent bandwidth issues which have done our best to edit out.

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