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What is the connection between the US bombing of a Syrian military base in Ayyash, Syria, and the Turkish invasion of northern Iraq?

Both of these seemingly isolated events are part of a larger plan to Balkanize the Middle East, to strengthen Washington’s grip on dwindling resources, to draw Russia into a costly and protracted war, and to ensure that ME oil remains denominated in US dollars. Author Joseph Kishore summed it up like this in a recent post at the World Socialist Web Site. He said:

“The basic force behind the war in Syria is the same as that which has motivated the imperialist carve-up of the Middle East as a whole: the interests of international finance capital. The major imperialist powers know that if they are to have a say in the division of the booty, they must have also done their share of the killing.” (“The new imperialist carve-up of the Middle East“, World Socialist Web Site)

Bingo. Ultimately, the war on terror is a public relations fig leaf designed to conceal Washington’s attempt to rule the world. It’s impossible to make sense of goings-on around the globe without some grasp of how seemingly random acts of violence and terror fit within the broader and more comprehensive geopolitical strategy to create a new unipolar world order, to crush all emerging rivals, and to extend US full-spectrum-dominance across the planet.

Let’s look at the particulars: On Sunday, US warplanes bombed a Syrian military base east of Raqqa killing three Syrian soldiers and wounding thirteen others. The incident took place in the village of Ayyash in Deir Ezzor Province. Coalition spokesman US Colonel Steve Warren denied US involvement in the deadly raid despite the fact that the UK-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights confirmed ‘that the air strike hit the military camp’. According to the observatory, ‘This is the first time that a strike from the US-led coalition killed Syrian government troops.’ Warren’s denial, which is the reflexive Pentagon response to any claim of culpability, suggests that the attack was a deliberate provocation intended to trigger retaliatory strikes from Russia that would, in turn, justify a larger commitment of US troops and weaponry to the 4 and a half year-long Syrian war. Whether the airstrikes got the greenlight from the White House or from rogue elements acting independently at the Pentagon is unclear. What is clear, however, is that the attack on Syrian troops, a full 30 miles from their designated target, was no mistake. It’s also worth noting, that according to South Front military analysis, the US bombing raid coincided with a “a full-scale ISIS offensive on the villages of Ayyash and Bgelia.” In other words, the US attack provided sufficient air-cover for ISIS terrorists to carry out their ground operations.

Was that part of the plan or was it merely a coincidence?

Less than 24 hours after the attack, US warplanes bombed the village of Al-Khan in north-eastern Syria killing 26 Syrian civilians including at least four women and seven children and four women. The message the US military is sending with these lethal attacks is that it wants to control the air-space over east Syria where it plans to remove ISIS and establish a de facto Sunni state consistent with its scheme to break Syria and Iraq into smaller cantons governed by local warlords, Islamic fanatics, and US puppets. A great deal has been written about this topic already, so we won’t spend too much time on it here. A recent op-ed in the New York Times by neocon John Bolton sums up the basic concept which appears to be supported by virtually the entire US political establishment. Here’s an excerpt from the article:

“Today’s reality is that Iraq and Syria as we have known them are gone. ….. Rather than striving to recreate the post-World War I map, Washington should recognize the new geopolitics. The best alternative to the Islamic State in northeastern Syria and western Iraq is a new, independent Sunni state….

This Sunni state proposal differs sharply from the vision of the Russian-Iranian axis and its proxies (Hezbollah, Mr. Assad and Tehran-backed Baghdad). Their aim of restoring Iraqi and Syrian governments to their former borders is a goal fundamentally contrary to American, Israeli and friendly Arab state interests….

The new “Sunni-stan” may not be Switzerland. This is not a democracy initiative, but cold power politics. It is consistent with the strategic objective of obliterating the Islamic State that we share with our allies, and it is achievable.” (“John Bolton: To Defeat ISIS, Create a Sunni State“, New York Times)

Like we said, the Bolton piece is just one of many articles and policy papers that support the partitioning of Iraq and Syria and the redrawing of the map of the Middle East. ISIS, which is largely an invention of western Intel agencies and their Gulf counterparts, is a critical component in this overall plan. By situating a terrorist organization at the epicenter of world oil supplies, one creates the rationale for intervening in the affairs of other sovereign nations whenever one chooses. This helps explain this week’s bombings in Ayyash and Al-Khan in north-eastern Syria. The US justifies the attacks by waving the bloody shirt of “ISIS, when in fact, the US is merely pursuing its own narrow strategic interests. And while the US has not formally established a no-fly zone in the area, it’s clear now that there are greater risks associated with operating in east Syria then there were just week ago, which is precisely the message the Pentagon wanted to send.

This same rule can be applied Turkey’s invasion of northern Iraq with an estimated 900 troops and 20 tanks. First of all, there is no way that Turkey launched the incursion without first getting the thumbs-up from Washington. We all know how violently the Obama administration reacted when Moscow defended Crimea following the CIA-backed coup in Kiev. Compare that to the subdued response of special presidential envoy, Brett McGurk, who has this to say on Twitter: “The US does not support military deployments inside Iraq in the absence of the consent of the Iraqi government.” (Today’s Zaman)

That’s it? 5,000 US soldiers died fighting in Iraq and all McGurk can say is ‘You really shouldn’t do that, Turkey’?

Keep in mind, Washington hasn’t levied sanctions onTurkey, attacked its currency or financial markets, or threatened it with it with war as it did with Russia. In fact, Obama hasn’t even scolded Turkey. He’s simply looked the other way and ignored the matter altogether. Naturally, that’s incensed US ally in Baghdad, Iraqi Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi, who has threatened to take action if Turkish troops don’t leave in the next 24 hours.

Once again, the Turkish move fits perfectly with the overall imperial strategy of “deconstructing” Syria and Iraq and breaking them into smaller, innocuous statelets that will remain in “a permanent state of colonial dependency” for the foreseeable future.

As for Turkey’s Islamist zealots in Ankara; they feel entirely justified in reclaiming territory they think was stolen from them following WW1. Turkish columnist for A Haber, Cemil Barlas, summed it up like this to RT’s Harry Fear:

“In the past, these lands belonged to us; we have the right to take part in their fate. Moreover, our relatives live in those regions. We are concerned as to what is happening to them….According to Barlas, Turkey has a right over Syrian and Iraqi’s natural resources and he thinks that people living there are not profiting from selling oil as it all goes to the ‘dictator.’” (Sputnik News)

Turkey’s invasion of Iraq signals the beginning of a long-term occupation that will likely expand to Mosul. This will establish a critical beachhead for controlling resources and pipeline corridors that will keep the oil flowing through Turkey and on to the southern port of Ceyhan. Here’s more on what’s going on from Turkish columnist Yavuz Baydar:

“Taking back Mosul in full is on the top of the agenda. For this there is an apparent convergence of interests between Turkey, the Kurdish Regional Government (KRG) and the Western allies….The key figure in the big picture is Khaled Hodja, leader of the Syrian National Coalition (SNC), in close cooperation with KRG leader Masoud Barzani. It was he who declared that there would be a joint combat force built in the canton of Rojava.

A colonel, speaking anonymously to Tunca Öğreten with the Diken news site in İstanbul, confirmed the plans, adding that it was a formation initiated by the US and Turkey and that it would consist of around 5,000 men.

“…. These forces are supported by the US and Turkey, both against the [Syrian President Bashar al-] Assad regime and to cut out the Kurds in northern Syria.”

Idris Nassan, the deputy foreign minister of Kobani, claims that this new force would consist mainly of members of the groups Ahrar al-Sham and al-Nusra, and Turkmens.

Nassan connects the latest moves to an imminent meeting in Riyadh, where Saudis are organizing new alliance-building for the Syrian opposition forces.“Behind the term ‘moderate forces’ are Saudi Arabia and Turkey,’ Nassan told the Diken website.” (“What lies beneath Turkey’s ’Mosul move’?“, Today’s Zaman)

So it looks like an agreement has been struck between Turkey, the KRG and the United States to seize parts of northern Iraq and eastern Syria to create a de facto Sunni state that will be jointly-controlled by Ankara and Washington. It also looks like Obama has agreed to use dodgy jihadi-proxies (aka–Terrorists) to work alongside US Special Forces to carry out future military operations. So while the effort to remove Assad has been temporarily put on the backburner, the determination to destroy Syria is as strong as ever.

MIKE WHITNEY lives in Washington state. He is a contributor to Hopeless: Barack Obama and the Politics of Illusion (AK Press). Hopeless is also available in a Kindle edition. He can be reached at [email protected].

(Republished from Counterpunch by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: Russia, Syria, Turkey 
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  1. What else does one expect from the Coalition of the Dodgy Oppotunists? It’s spelled out in Brookings’ ‘Deconstructing Syria’:

    The strategy would begin by establishing one or two zones in relatively promising locations, such as the Kurdish northeast…

    http://www.brookings.edu/research/papers/2015/06/23-syria-strategy-ohanlon

    Btw are they still going with the “Russia did it” line at State re: the coalition strikes in Deir Ezzor? I’m guessing six more press conferences and four changing stories before they admit it to some degree.

  2. Tom_R says:

    SYRIAN WAR BY JEW-S-A AND JEW-ROPE IS FOR A GREATER ISRAEL.
    SOLUTION: ISRAEL MUST PERISH–DOES NOT BELONG IN A CIVILIZED WORLD.

    Thanks for the interesting article, Sir. You make some great points, except I would add 2:

    1. The Judaists/Israelis, who have successfully stolen Gaza, now want to steal Syria to expand Israel into “greater Israel”which will also include parts of Syria, using their bribed dogs, the govts. of Jew-S-A and Jew-rope, and in comport with the Biblical mythology of the “Promised Land.”

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/greater-israel-the-zionist-plan-for-the-middle-east/5324815

    The Jew York Times is basically the propaganda arm and is trying to con the public, but the above is the ulterior motive.

    2. ISIS is owned and operated by Jew-S-A and Israeli criminals armed to steal land (and oil) from Syria.

    http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Report-Israel-treating-al-Qaida-fighters-wounded-in-Syria-civil-war-393862

    So Jew-S-A and Jew-rope are sending their airforce to Syria, not to fight ISIS, but actually to help and protect their hitmen—ISIS, whom they have financed and supported all along.

    Solution: Russia must do the best it can to fight back. A no-fly zone over Syria, giving nuclear weapons and missiles to Iran and N. Korea, using Muslims to bomb Israeli planes in retaliation of its plane being bombed over Sinai, bombing Saudi Arabia, cutting off gas to Europe and Turkey, speeches at the UN demanding the world boycott Israel (the real mastermind of the criminal gang of Jewrope and Jew-S-A called NATO, etc. ), giving speeches at the UN exposing Israel as the mastermind of the world’s greatest criminal racket, and urging NATO soldiers to rise up and revolt and start killing their commanders and Jewish controlled politicians, having countries issue arrest warrants for Israeli criminals and their dog politicians like Merkel the world over, inciting Muslims to attack Israeli synagogues the world over, etc. are all possible options for Russia/Syria/Iran.

    The world must unite against this most deadly and lethal criminal state called Israel and fight to exterminate it to live in peace.

    • Replies: @Junior
  3. Rehmat says:

    I’m afraid Mike Whitney’s heading is misleading. He is trying to hide the real agenda of powers that want to see a Syria without president Bashar al-Assad.

    Yes, Syria is Sunni-majority country, but it has been ruled by Ba’athist party for over five decades. Ba’athists are anti-religion secularists and belongs to Sunnis, Shias, Druz, and Christian communities within Syria.

    The US led war on Syria may look four year old, but it’s conceived by the Zionist regime in the 1990s, according to Israeli historian Israel Shahak.

    It has nothing to do with creating a “Sunnistan” in Syria as we saw US-Israel’s creation of earlier “Sunnistan” in southern Iraq, while the remaining Iraq “Shiaistan”, which became Iran’s ally even during US occupation of the country.

    On November 20, UK’s newspaper The Guardian published an Op-Ed written by Brig. General (ret) Michael Herzog, in which the baby-killer said that Israel is not interested in a diplomatic solution to Syrian bloodshed as it would keep power in the hands of Syrian president Bashar al-Assad who is an ally of both Iran and Lebanese resistance Hizbullah.

    Herzog also asserted that ISIS is a terrorist group, but it doesn’t pose any threat to Israel. He said the real ‘existential’ threat to Israel is Hizbullah which has nearly 100,000 rockets and shares common borders with Israel. He also claimed that as result of the US-Iran nuclear agreement, Hizbullah has been further emboldened.

    http://rehmat1.com/tag/hizbullah/

  4. Washington/Obama has a strategy?

    Surely you jest.

  5. Sunnistan = Caliphat

    ….and this has worldwide about 1.300.000.000 inhabitants.

    The West needs the counterweight of the Shiite Iran.
    And especially Great Britain and the USA have a responsibility.

    They created the problem in Iran in the 50’s with killing Mossadegh and bringing the Shah of Persia -> result: Khomeni,
    in Afghanialstan with creating and paying 100.000 “Freedom-Fighters” since 1979 -> result: Taliban + Al Qaida,
    in Iraq with the story of the weapons of mass destruction and the removal of the butcher Saddam
    -> result: Islamic State
    Also with creating and supporting the “Arab Spring” result: Butcher Ghaddafi is death,IS is ruling,a lot of countries are failed states.

    But the big supporters of the IS like the Saudis,Qataris and the Turks are still in power and “Good Friends” with the Western Values.

    “Well done”.Very “trustworthy”.

    These are the results from the “Think Tanks” and the Project of a New American Centrury.

  6. Priss Factor [AKA "The Priss Factory"] says: • Website

    Blood and Soil, not Blood for Oil.

  7. Thirdeye says:

    Turkey is in the proverbial glass house throwing stones. Iran, Iraq, and Syria have not seen it in their interest to support Kurdish rebellion within Turkey, but that could change rapidly.

  8. Kiza says:

    Bolton: “The best alternative to the Islamic State in northeastern Syria and western Iraq is a new, independent Sunni state….”

    I was not the only one, but I predicted this a while back. Since ISIS did not do the job given – it did not bring down the Syrian Government, now Turkey has to do the heavy lifting in Syria and Iraq. ISIS will be replaced by a new Turkish controlled Sunni state, a repackaged and re-branded ISIS. The same oil smuggling outfit, just under a new name and “Under the New Management”.

    This is why Turkey was rewarded with $3B from EU supposedly for the refugees Turkey created in Syria. This money will pay for the now imminent Turkish military intervention into Syria and Iraq. The other part of the payment will be in oil.

    Israel will get its share of Syria without having to get its hands dirty.

  9. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:

    There appears to be a rift between the Syrian Kurds and the Iraqi Kurds after Barzani has decided to sell them out by siding with Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and the Gulf Nations. The Syrian Kurds have decided to form their own summit after being excluded from the Saudi one.

    http://www.yourmiddleeast.com/news/kurds-plan-syria-summit-after-exclusion-from-saudi-meet_37206

    And here is an article from the, apparently Barzani controlled, BASnews agency on a recent meeting between Barzani and the Saudi leadership.

    http://basnews.com/index.php/en/news/246843

    Barzani sold the Syrian Kurds out to the gulf-nation-oil-cartel families and the Turk.

    Erdogan’s a pimp. He never could have outfought the Kurds. But I didn’t know until this day that it was… Barzani all along.

  10. “Verschlimmbesserung” :

    German word for trying to improve things and making them better.
    But in reality it becomes much worse.

    Like the word “reform”. Means making something better and easier – but in reality it stands for paying more to become less.

    In Syria the USA and especially Israel want to remove a (more or less) legal elected small Dictator.
    Who gives them the right to do this?
    Shouldn’t they better try it with a country where women not equal and Opposition to the King is punished by beheading like Saudi – Arabia?

    So when US and Turkish fighter-jets are illeagal in Syrian Airspace Syria can take the same measures with these states and try to remove their head of states?
    World is going crazy.
    And the winner are the Sunni Islamists who are supported from Saudi-Arabia,Qatar,Turkey etc.

    The Shiite Iran should become a regional superpower like it was under the Shah of Persia.
    Iran did never attack an other state.When Iran is the opinion Israel shouldn’t be there – so what?In a house you have neighbours you do not like you have to try to make the best out of it.
    Better a peaceful Iran with this opinion than a Sunni Caliphat who wants to kill all non-Sunnis.

    The US-“Think”-Tanks and their puppets in the politics have opened the gate of Hell and a sleeping Giant is awakening since 1979 in Afghanistan,Iran,Saudi-Arabia and Turkey.
    And when you look at the average age of the population in the West and the Birth-Dshjihad…

    Looks not good for a New American Centrury.Only as a regional power on the American Continent.

  11. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @Tom_R

    What is wrong with you? Always with your crazy rants. Now you’re urging soldiers to kill their commanders?! Get some professional help… and just to make sure that your chemically imbalanced brain doesn’t take that the wrong way, I’m not talking about getting professional hitmen to help kill commanders. I’m talking about you getting professional mental help. Seriously, Tom. You need help.

    • Replies: @RobinG
    , @Tom_R
  12. Now you’re urging soldiers to kill their commanders?! Get some professional help… I’m not talking about getting professional hitmen to help kill commanders. I’m talking about you getting professional mental help. Seriously, Tom. You need help.

    http://www.therestlessconscience.com

    The Restless Conscience is a film documenting the resistance to Hitler inside Nazi Germany from 1933 to 1945. It . . . explores the motivations of the anti-Nazi resisters whose actions also included numerous attempts on Hitler’s life.

    . . .

    Focusing on the moral and political evolution of the resisters, The Restless Conscience examines issues raised by ethical and political dissent in totalitarian regimes.

    . . . The Restless Conscience highlights the conflict between an individual’s responsibility to a personal ethical code and to the national political system. The film addresses a crucial issue: the mass extermination of Jews by Nazi Germany’s [Palestinians and other Muslims by zionist Israeli and American] governmental instruments, and the response of the German [to-date non-existent American] resisters.

    The Restless Conscience is the story of human beings facing choices of conscience and will. Their struggles – within their own ethical codes and against the various manifestations of the Nazi [zionized American] State – provide a microscopic cross section of German society in turmoil during the 30 and 40s [zionized American society in turmoil from the Woodrow Wilson administration to the present.]

    Don’t remember the book — it was about the lies told to the American public to induce them to go to war in Iraq.
    The author interviewed the head of British intelligence, think his name was Breedlove. He had gone, at great risk, to Jordan to talk to the deposed head of Iraq’s nuclear research projects. He was asked if Iraq was weaponizing nuclear material and the guy said NO. He wrote and signed an affidavit to that effect.
    Breedlove flew to Washington to show the letter to Bush admin. Condoleezza Rice refused to talk to him.
    Breedlove ended the interview with a statement to the effect, “When soldiers are lied to, they resent it. They will storm the castle. It has happened before in history and it is inevitable.”

    In a polity based on government By the People it’s a lot less “crazy” to seek to remove, with or without extreme prejudice, those who are giving the orders to kill with depraved indifference, than it is crazy to kill innocent civilians who are dual victims of the depravity of corrupt leaders.

    • Replies: @Junior
  13. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Focusing on the moral and political evolution of the resisters, The Restless Conscience examines issues raised by ethical and political dissent in totalitarian regimes.

    We do NOT live in a Totalitarian Regime. There is plenty of other recourse. To feed into Tom’s extremism that there is no other way is CRAZY.

    Simple Definition of Totalitarian : controlling the people of a country in a very strict way with complete power that cannot be opposed.

    http://beta.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/totalitarian

    • Disagree: Kiza
  14. @Junior

    There is plenty of other recourse.

    name it.

    US has been at war — correction — between zionists in Israel and Americans in South America and Middle East, American citizens have financed the killing of several million people over the course of over 40 years.

    Hitler didn’t come close to that record for longevity (nor, arguably, in body count and widespread chaos and destruction).

    As for “totalitarian,”first of all, imo you are missing the larger point, namely, ethical struggle — each person, and especially persons in a representative form of government where the people have a voice, have a responsibility to their humanity to engage in an ethical debate no matter the form or behavior of their government.
    Please point to the individuals or groups who are leading and giving public voice to that ethical struggle or resistance movement in the USA.

    Please describe for me those individuals or groups and their methods that have successfully made their voices heard and successfully pushed back against any single one of the multiple murderous enterprises the USA (and Israel) have embarked upon in the course of those 40 years.

    Name one.

    Germany was at war, a declared hot war taking place on German soil, with bombs raining down on the heads of German civilians during the time that you label “totalitarian.”

    The vast majority of American citizens have experienced no inconvenience greater than having to stand in line to cast a vote that is, in the final meaningless, meaningless: American federal legislators vote in lockstep with Benjamin Netanyahu and the ideologies of their zionist staffers and lobbyists.

    What forms of resistance to that traitorous totalitarianism has been effective? What change has come about as a result of that effective form of resistance?

    The ideologues and demagogues who have done so much damage to the USA, and who have authorized or participated in the slaughter of so many people in the name of the people of the United States, act with complete impunity.

    Why do we permit thousands of people to be starved, or bombed, or ‘de-housed,’ or made refugees, and not raise out voices in outrage?
    Oh — we have protests.
    What have they accomplished?

    The people who lead the USA have got to be made to fear the power of the people and not the situation that pertains today in which the people self-censor and keep their heads down out of fear of the power of government. THAT is totalitarianism. If we want it to stop, we have to stop it.

    Perhaps you think it will play itself out, this warring and killing that the US is engaged in.

    Kindly describe that scenario — take it out over the next 30 years: what end-game do you envision? Where will this end?

    After Mostafa Roshan was assassinated in Tehran, Ronen Bergman told Brian Williams that “Israel has used assassination more than any other state — even Stalin — to change history.” http://www.nbcnews.com/video/rock-center/46318982#46318982

    Do you concede your form of government, ethical values and way of life to the assassination policies of zionists?

    Do we Americans get a say in the blowback that the Jabotinskyites engender, or is our job to sit down, shut up, and pay taxes?

    • Replies: @Junior
    , @geokat62
  15. tbraton says:

    “As for Turkey’s Islamist zealots in Ankara; they feel entirely justified in reclaiming territory they think was stolen from them following WW1. Turkish columnist for A Haber, Cemil Barlas, summed it up like this to RT’s Harry Fear:

    “In the past, these lands belonged to us; we have the right to take part in their fate. Moreover, our relatives live in those regions. We are concerned as to what is happening to them….According to Barlas, Turkey has a right over Syrian and Iraqi’s natural resources and he thinks that people living there are not profiting from selling oil as it all goes to the ‘dictator.’” (Sputnik News)””

    Has anyone bothered to do a DNA test on Erdogan to see if he is related in any way to Adolph Hitler?

    I believe the Turks can make the same claim with respect to Greece and all the other Balkan countries that once constituted part of the Ottoman Empire: “in the past, these lands belonged to us.” Those areas, after all, were conquered fair and square by the relatively recent invaders from Central Asia.

    • Replies: @Kiza
  16. RobinG says:
    @Junior

    When someone ( Tom_R) goes this far over the top, where does it fit in your reverse-blowback 2nd degree Troll theory? i.e., is Tom using crazed anti-Semitism to frighten normal people, including and those who’ve heard of the Samson option, into defense of Israel?
    Because ‘normal people’ are the target, not those firmly dug into a position. Normal people, with a little help, can see the benefit of a peaceful dismantlement of the Zionist state.

    “As long as the state of Israel exists there can be no peace. Israel was established and exists on an ideology called Zionism which calls for the colonisation of Palestine by Jewish people. They claim that Palestine, which Zionists call The Land of Israel, belongs to the Jewish people and therefore there must be Jewish state there. The Zionist ideology and the Zionist state will not compromise on the issue of the land, and therefore there can either be peaceful existence in Palestine or the existence of the State of Israel – but not both.” Miko Peled

    Boycott the Zionists: Israeli General’s son tells developing nations
    http://www.sundaytimes.lk/151206/sunday-times-2/boycott-the-zionists-israeli-generals-son-tells-developing-nations-173970.html

    • Replies: @Junior
  17. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    There is plenty of other recourse.

    name it.

    BDS. Cutting off the funding. Voting. Making people aware of the situation.

    US has been at war — correction — between zionists in Israel and Americans in South America and Middle East, American citizens have financed the killing of several million people over the course of over 40 years.

    Yes, but the Internet has NOT been around for 40 years. If you fail to see the power that the Internet will have in the course of changing public opinion and the results that sharing information can have on a population, then I suggest that you read up on the effects that Gutenberg’s Printing Press had and the INCREDIBLE changes in power structure all throughout society that occurred as a result of it.

    As for “totalitarian,”first of all, imo you are missing the larger point, namely, ethical struggle — each person, and especially persons in a representative form of government where the people have a voice, have a responsibility to their humanity to engage in an ethical debate no matter the form or behavior of their government.

    IMO, you’re the one missing the point. This lunatic, Tom, is calling for soldiers to shoot commanders. It’s ethically disgusting for so many reasons. Who is he to judge and be executioner to some underling that he has no idea about. And what’s worse is that it’s without even having exhausted every single other method of opposition. And along with it being COMPLETELY unethical, it is entirely counterproductive in my opinion because it does absolutely nothing to change public opinion. This is a SYSTEMIC problem. Public opinion is EXACTLY what needs to change for anything meaningful to occur. And the key words in your sentence above are “in an ethical debate.” Debate, NOT assassinations.

    Please point to the individuals or groups who are leading and giving public voice to that ethical struggle or resistance movement in the USA.

    The Unz Review is one. This website that you are on right now is a PRIME example of just such a forum that is giving public voice to just such a call for change that you speak of and I’d like to thank Mr. Unz for exactly that. If only all these Hasbara Trolls that are pretending to be racist anti-Semitic fucking idiots along with the genuine racist anti-Semitic fucking idiots weren’t all over this site delighting in showing the world just how truly ignorant they are while doing nothing but turning any newcomers off to the truth because the newcomers don’t want to be associated with such extreme stupidity, then maybe we would be a lot further along to changing public opinion than we are now.

    Please describe for me those individuals or groups and their methods that have successfully made their voices heard and successfully pushed back against any single one of the multiple murderous enterprises the USA (and Israel) have embarked upon in the course of those 40 years.
    Name one…. Kindly describe that scenario — take it out over the next 30 years: what end-game do you envision? Where will this end?

    The Vietnam War was stopped with just such methods of public awareness because of the Television before the powers that be took full control of it. But they have NOT been able to take full control of the Internet and THAT will be our saving grace. The Iraq War was stopped, albeit momentarily but the struggle goes on. We have yet to declare all out war in Syria and Congress did not vote to send in ground troops when given the chance, now why do you think that is? It certainly wasn’t because of some idiotic random acts of violence that people wouldn’t even know what the hell they meant in the first place. It has to be through changing public opinion with a movement and that movement has to be done by sharing knowledge and changing minds. Information is the key. Knowledge is TRUE power and this madness ends when enough people have it.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  18. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @RobinG

    I agree completely with you about the BDS movement being a major part of the answer, RobinG.

    is Tom using crazed anti-Semitism to frighten normal people, including and those who’ve heard of the Samson option, into defense of Israel?

    Absolutely he is using fear, whether on purpose or not but I believe the prior, to try to scare people into both defending Israel, by people that are pro-Israel seeing insane anti-Semitism and wanting to protect Israel, and he’s also using fear to try and scare newcomers into disregarding any truth that they may read here. He’s a fear mongerer. It’s a never-ending struggle to not let the fear drive us, especially when driven by lunatics like Tom, that I struggle with myself all the time to not fall into.

    “It’s driven me before. And it seems to have a vague, haunting mass appeal. But lately I’m beginning to find that I should be the one behind the wheel.”

  19. ohwilleke says: • Website

    “What is the connection between the US bombing of a Syrian military base in Ayyash, Syria, and the Turkish invasion of northern Iraq?

    Both of these seemingly isolated events are part of a larger plan to Balkanize the Middle East, to strengthen Washington’s grip on dwindling resources, to draw Russia into a costly and protracted war, and to ensure that ME oil remains denominated in US dollars.”

    While I’m not sure that any of those alleged motives would be bad ones, this assumes far more policy coherence and competence at a big picture level than exists. We are muddling through one crisis and news cycle at a time, not carrying out some grand plan.

    I like Bolton’s plan, but most of the foreign policy establishment in D.C. does not.

  20. Kiza says:
    @tbraton

    You are obviously not aware that the neo-Ottomans of Turkey dream about restoring an empire from Vienna in the West to Uyghurstan in the East, that is from Mittel Europa to West China. Of all the f’ed up, crazy, nationalistic, extremist mofos in the World, Turks are probably the craziest.

    I wrote a long time ago that the nations such as Germany and Turkey cannot have it good for long without wanting to rule others. But whilst Germany uses mainly ruthless economic and financial methods to re-conquer, the Turkish mofos still want to use military force, as they did in in 19th and 20th century.

    The approach to creating a new empire is simple: in an area, if there is two persons speaking Turkish – this area is (should be) Turkey.

  21. @Junior

    Don’t worry about them. They’re all of Arabic descent and rather hoping that everyone in the West commits suicide so that they can feel better about their own civillizational achievements.

    They will literally say anything, anything at all, to further this aim.

  22. geokat62 says:

    Ultimately, the war on terror is a public relations fig leaf designed to conceal Washington’s attempt to rule the world.

    Couldn’t disagree more. This is consistent with Noam Chomsky’s thesis that “the dog wags the tail.” It may have been a good explanation of geopolitical events prior to the fall of the Berlin Wall, but not since. Since then, and especially after 9/11, this thesis has been superseded by that put forward by Profs. Mearsheimer and Walt. It can best be described as “the tail wags the dog.” It maintains that all the wars in the ME have been proxy wars waged on behalf of Israel. These wars are meant to remake the ME by regime changing those countries that are deemed hostile to it, all in an effort to enhance the security of the villa in the jungle.

    Not sure why some people are still struggling to grasp this. It must be because they refuse to read PNAC’s Clean Break or the Oded Yinon Plan.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  23. geokat62 says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    The people who lead the USA have got to be made to fear the power of the people… If we want it to stop, we have to stop it.

    Sounds to me like you’ve already got your marching boots on. So that’s 2 down and 999,998 to go.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  24. Markus says:

    I hate to say it but this maniac Bolton is saying here what I have been saying for months. The Balkanization of the area is the best chance for peace. Such a disappointment that the comment section of the Unz Review is filled with syphillic-sounding conspiracists and obsessives. I see nothing wrong conceptually, morally and practically with a Sunni state in the Levant, a Kurdish state, and an Alawite-Christian state, contiguous to and perhaps in confederation with Lebanon. I thought that the Unz Review is one place where there might be an understanding of the virtues of non-imperial ethnic nationalism…I guess not. Confusing and disappointing.

    • Agree: Wizard of Oz
    • Replies: @krollchem
    , @Junior
  25. bondo says:

    the MEs dwindling resources is certainly accelerated by the gulf puppies/puppets insane over pumping of oil into a glutted market. purpose: waging war on russia and iran (and venezuela)

    not sunnistan but jewstan.

    nothing understood or correct without plans yinon and perle-wolfiwitz (7 countries 5 years).

    syria is the bridge between iran and hezbullah. hezbullah terrifies jewry/israel.

    pres assad is one of 2 arab leaders (+ nusrallah) who cares more for his people(and the entire arab ME) and culture than what zionized/judaized amurderka/west requires.

    assad and nusrallah understand jewry and judaized amurderka represent servility, destruction, poverty, misery, dispossession, death.

  26. Rurik says:
    @Junior

    The Vietnam War was stopped with just such methods of public awareness

    In Vietnam the threat of fragging caused many officers and non-commissioned officers to go armed in rear areas and to change their sleeping arrangements as fragging often consisted of throwing a grenade into a tent where the target was sleeping. For fear of being fragged some leaders turned a blind eye to drug use and other indiscipline among the men in their charge. Fragging, the threat of fragging, and investigations of fragging sometimes disrupted or delayed tactical combat operations. Officers were sometimes forced to negotiate with their enlisted men to obtain their consent before undertaking dangerous patrols.[19]

    The breakdown of discipline, including fragging, was an important factor leading to the creation of an all-volunteer military force by the United States and the termination of conscription.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fragging

    that has to do with the effects of fragging. IOW is can be effective.

    now as to the morality of shooting your commander

    let’s say your an American soldier serving in Iraq, and your commander says to you, ‘we just received fire from the east. There’s a village over there. Take a platoon and go into that village and kill everyone’. Now you might say, ‘but that’s just a primitive village and there’s women and children there and they didn’t hurt anyone’.

    C: look, I don’t give a fuck. We received fire from over there. If I’m going to get a promotion, I need to pacify this entire area. If that means killing every man, woman and child here, then that’s what you’re going to do when I give you orders.

    U: but we both know this is an illegal, unconstitutional and immoral war. We know these people are all innocent and we know that we are acting like the aggressors and terrorizing these people so that some evil scumfucks in DC can lick Zio scrotum and advance their careers!

    C: advancing careers is what the f* I’m talking about! Both our careers will be advanced when we pacify this region. That has been made very clear to me by the higher up on the chain of command. Now get in there and slaughter those people, pronto!

    U: ~chambering a round in your Marine issued 45 automatic~

    C: what are you doing?! Why are you looking at me like that?! GET IN THERE AND KILL THOSE PEOPLE!

    *BANG*

    War was stopped with just such methods of public awareness because of the Television before the powers that be took full control of it. But they have NOT been able to take full control of the Internet and THAT will be our saving grace.

    I have watched the dominoes fall. First there was a forum at Newsmax, until the truth became too cogent. Then they shut it down. Then there were a few others that I noticed, until they too were shut down. Most recently there was a massively popular forum on the Internet called The Liberty Forum, run by a guy called John Deere. It was incredible the amazing people who showed up there. The debates were a mosh pit and voices were some of the most intelligent and educated and knowledgeable you’d ever read. I learned amazing things there. Where is it today? Yep, you guessed it, they shut it down. Since then it seems there’s been a dearth of places to go to read from Matrix heretics and narrative rogues. I stumbled on this site by accident, but it is not typical. Consider just Freerepublic and the thoughtcrime goons that monitor the conversations for deviations from acceptable language and you see what I mean.

    If a site on the Internet ever becomes too big of a problem, they have their ways. Places like Anti-war for instance will never question the 911 narrative. There’s a lot of controls they exercise that we don’t know about.

    As for Tom’s rather impetuous language, it was the part about shooting the (corrupt, murderous, war criminal) commanders that I liked the most!

    I’m not sure why that bothers you so much. If a commander orders you to commit a war crime and slaughter civilians, (something we all know has been done and is being done on a massive scale), then do you think it’s more moral and homerable to follow the orders? If the only alternative is to put a bullet into the psychopath’s brain pan, and take the consequences. Perhaps you’d be court-martialed and sent to Fort Leavenworth, but you’d have your soul intact, and would be able to face your family and your Maker on that day with a clean conscience. Perhaps even more importantly you’d be able to face yourself. Perhaps that’s why twenty something vets snuff it every single day. Because they can’t face the evils that they were ordered to commit. I suspect so, in fact.

    Our military has slaughtered over a million innocent souls in the service of Satan since that false flag of 911 was done. How many more lives are we going to destroy? How many more children are we going to make orphans, or parents greave the loss of their children due to US armaments falling on their little heads?

    Please consider; these wars are wrong. They are a crime against all known principles of International Law. We are retuning to the law of the jungle. We are becoming the very thing we hanged the Nazis for; a people who wage aggressive wars of conquest while slaughtering innocents willy-nilly. As SC pointed out, who would question the motives of a man who assassinated (fragged) Hitler in order to prevent so much of that insanity?

    .
    .

    I get going and I have to stop or this will get way too long..

    • Replies: @Junior
  27. annamaria says:
    @Colinjames

    A very nice explanation of the US-ordered shooting of a Russian jet by using Turkey as a patsy: http://sputniknews.com/analysis/20151211/1031591091/us-defense-analyst-su-24-downing.html

    Note that the Russian jet had been fighting ISIS. Before shooting the jet, the US-made F16 ” had flown around in an area 25 miles (40 km) north of the border crossing for nearly an hour-and-a-half… loitering quite low, below the coverage of the Syrian and Russian radars down around Latakia.” Moreover, the Turkish plane actually penetrated Syrian airspace” before attacking SU24.

    Here is the US role in the deadly attacks:”..the Russians had coordinated with NATO, with the Americans, announcing this attack well in advance, and had followed the protocol of listening on the NATO-agreed frequency for any warnings or alerts from NATO or from the Turks.”

    Any more questions about the relationships between ISIS, the US, and Russian federation?

  28. Chiron says:

    The real objective is to create a Kurdistan unifying northen Syria and Iraq, the Kurds are supported by the Zionists and everybody knows it.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  29. annamaria says:

    While the “biomass” was fed the useful hysterics of 9/11, the parasitoids enjoyed an unrestricted cancerous growth of a security state (the security for the .0001% of psychopaths-in-power, of course) and making more wars in the Middle East and elsewhere. (And do not forget the expensive architectural atrocity, dedicated to 9/11, in the Lower Manhattan). And surprise! – the facts on the ground are revealing that the US have been both a creator and main sponsor of ISIS. The maintenance of ISIS has been also involving the ME kingdoms, particularly Saudis, the main sponsors of the alleged 9/11 masterminds. In short, the US (UK/Israel), Saudis, and ISIS have arranged themselves into a group of allies. The hapless European Union is complicit in the wars of aggression by being a member of NATO, the US’ weaponized toy.

  30. Rurik says:
    @Chiron

    The real objective is to create a Kurdistan

    is this entire fiasco being orchestrated by the Kurds?

    Is that why Turkey is shooting down Russian jets, to enable a sovereign Kurdish nation on its border?

    if the Kurds are supported by the Zionists it’s only insofar as supporting them will further their agenda, and that immediate agenda is to take possession of the Golan Heights- fee simple.

    Genie Energy’s Strategic advisory board is composed of: Dick Cheney (former vice president of the United States), Rupert Murdoch (media mogul and chairman of News Corp), James Woolsey (former CIA director), Larry Summers (former head of the US Treasury), Jacob Rothschild and Michael Steinhardt (an American hedge fund manager and philanthropist to Jewish causes). [2]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie_Energy

    that my friend is the “real objective” here

    it is towards that end that all the hullabaloo about “Assad has to go” springs from

    what is being done here is that the Zionists are offering up chunks of Syria to its neighbors in a black alliance to destroy the country and steal its land. Something the Zionists are infamous for by now. And we all know that Washington DC is Zio-occupied territory, so that’s why Lindsey Graham and John McBloodstain and all the other assorted whores and war pigs are in full on war pig mode. But in order to get some others in the region to back the iniquitous schemes of the Zionists and their assorted whores, it’s necessary to offer them some spoils. And the oil regions of Syria offered up to Turkey would be a nice morsel for Erdogan and his son.

    The Kurds are only being cynically used. They’ll never be allowed to have their own country because Turkey would never allow it. Same with the assorted sub-human head slicers. They’re also being cynically used by the Zionists just until Assad is gone, and then they too will be dispatched ‘tout de suite’.

    Carving up Syria and Iraq are all part of this master plan by the Zionists to take possession of the Golan and what ever they can steal. While sending the Arabs in the region reeling into the stone age of tribal strife, like what they’ve done in Libya.

    it’s Putin vs. an Orwellian Zio-boot stamping on our faces for all eternity

    God speed to that man

    (and God damn the war pigs)

    • Replies: @Sherman
  31. Sherman says:
    @Rurik

    I’m with you.

    Thank goodness Israel controls the Golan!

    Not only does the Golan offer strategic depth for Israel but it is beautiful there. It’s full of wide open spaces, thriving Israeli villages and water. It also has tons of Jewish archaeological sights.

    Furthermore, now they’ve discovered that the Golan is full of oil. Amazing!

  32. Tom_R says:
    @Junior

    HASBARA TROLLS ARE HERE, ATTACKING PATRIOTS, TELLING LIES.

    Jr, you sound like a Hasbara troll, calling Patriots crazy. It is a common scam of the mentally deranged Judaists, calling normal people crazy. Good scam!

    With respect to Putin or Iran giving a speech at the UN or setting up websites or NGO’s inciting American and Israeli soldiers to institute regime change in Jew-S-A and Jew-rope and J’Israel, by killing their commanders and the Zionist-bribed crooked politicians, it is completely legal and proper for Russia and Iran and others to do that, esp. because Jew-S-A is doing precisely that.

    For example, in Syria, Jew-S-A gave weapons to the “rebels” to remove Assad, a duly elected President. Jew-S-A and Judaists like Soros go around the world promoting violent overthrow of duly elected govts (eg. Syria and Ukraine), incite mutiny and rebellion, so what is wrong with other govts. encouraging our soldiers to engage in mutiny/rebellion, or go on a strike, or seek disability en-masse and/or extirpate their commanders and Zionist-bribed politicians?

    That is called tit-for-tat.

    • Replies: @redscare
    , @Junior
  33. Rurik says:

    the Golan is full of oil. Amazing!

    that’s right general

    JERUSALEM, Oct. 7 (UPI) — An Israeli oil and natural gas company estimates there may be enough reserves in the occupied Golan Heights to make the country self-sufficient in energy.

    Yuval Bartov, the chief geologist for Afek Oil and Gas, told Channel 2 News in Israel preliminary data show a column of oil found in the Golan Heights is about 10 times larger than the global average.

    http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Energy-Industry/2015/10/07/Israel-upbeat-on-Golan-oil-potential/9401444212278/

    and that oil and land is what this is all about

    it’s why the endless mantra of “Assad has to go”

    because Israel wants the oil

    >>><<<

    and to JR's angst over fragging a commander.. how many innocent people should an American soldier murder so that Israel can steal someone else's land and resources?

    how many hospitals should a soldier shell with artillery?

    how many boys should a soldier allow to be chained to a child-rapist's bed, before something inside him snaps, and he shoots the rapist and his commander who ordered him to leave the child where it was?

    if someone, anyone orders another person to commit an atrocity, or else.. Is it better to commit the atrocity? Or if left with no other choice, kill the person ordering you to commit it?

    if you're a low level technician sitting in a chair at Langley, and you're watching the video feed from a Predator Drone as it flies over a wedding with scores of guests and merriment and the happiest day in two people's lives, and your superior says 'shoot the Hellfire missile, I think someone there might be a freedom fighter, or sympathetic to one, or not. Whatever, just blow the whole scene to kingdom come'. And then you find that you can't do it. You can't press the button. You see all the children and the scene of great joy on your video feed, and you just can't pull the trigger. And so your superior pulls out his side arm and says either pull the trigger or I will.. would anyone condemn the technician if he or she disarmed the psychopathic fiend and killed it?

    just some thoughts…

  34. What reason is there to use one’s time reading Mike Whitney? Apart from knowing where to find socialist theorizing online whst does he know about? I ask this as I stopped reading after his second empty rhetorical flourish. The first was “Washington’s grip on dwindling resources” and associated fluff. Is MW the chap who predicted 50 out of the last 10 “peak oil” crises, to adapt a trope?
    The second was “Washington’s attempt to rule the world”. Doesn’t he know that the conventional wisdom outside MSM is now that the Balkanisation of the ME and putting Iran in its place are just pro-Israel ME projects with not much much concern for the world at all.

    Should MW join PCR in the Old Fogeys Corner?

    • Replies: @krollchem
    , @tbraton
  35. The usual Mike. First he makes a lot of assumptions then he turns them into facts and based on these “facts” start spinning his fantasies which rarely materialize. The reality is that nobody outside the US government really knows what their plan is, if they have any at all, and nobody knows what the plans of other parties involved are, if any. There are too many player with too many plans, or without them, in this limited area right now and trying to guess how all this will play out is an exercise in futility.

  36. Sean says:

    So what if Sunnis want their own state. The corollary, a Shia superstate taking in Iran and parts of Iraq might be a price worth paying for Israel if Jordan becomes involved, because that will open the way for |Israel to expel the West Bank Palestinians.

    http://www.martin-van-creveld.com/?p=439
    The second would be to hope for the collapse of the Hashemite Kingdom and its occupation by Daesh or some similar organization. That would create an opportunity to repeat the events of 1948 and throw the Palestinians of the West Bank across the River Jordan. This is the “solution” a great many Israelis secretly favor. And the longer the present uprising lasts, the larger their number will grow.

  37. Kiza says:

    There are three types of opponents of Mike Whitney’s articles:
    1) Hasbara trolls
    2) Turkish trolls
    3) Fools of Ooze

    It is easy to recognize who is who. Mike Whitney is one of the most read and appreciated independent article writers in the World. But the above three categories of “critics” would rather read their own regime propaganda. Mike is definitely not writing for them, Patrick Cockburn and Eric Margolis are. So shooosh critics, go away to your pig pen mud wallow.

    • Replies: @bondo
    , @Regnum Nostrum
  38. @Junior

    NSDAP was an odd kind of totalitarianism, which the docudrama The Restless Conscience unwittingly proves:

    National Socialism was supported by a majority of the German people. (That’s one reason why both British and American strategists and air warriors justified their actions in killing so many civilians — the rationalization was that the German people not just NSDAP leaders, are the enemy.

    Furthermore, as Restless Conscience reveals, it was elites, and not the hoi polloi who plotted and attempted to assassinate Hitler.

    Among NSDAP’s visions/goals was a classless society; Hitler was able to not only tap into that rhetorically but for seven years NSDAP created a more equal society, a dramatic change from the earlier, Weimar situation in which the Few had tremendous resources while the many were starving, literally, and women were forced to prostitute themselves to feed their children.

    jr and most others may not like it, but Hitler and NSDAP changed that situation: the poor were fed and housed; the middle class was employed; and the wealthy were persuaded that what was good for the lower classes was good for them, too.

    Those who attempted to assassinate Hitler were, for the most part, from the elite, wealthy strata of German society — something like the Clintonistas hiring someone to bump off Donald Trump or Bernie Sanders because their policies would bode ill for the predatory capitalists.

    By implication, Jr. thinks that the attempts of those German elites to assassinate Hitler were A-ok.
    That’s what happens when your opinions are based on propaganda relentlessly deployed, rather than thinking through the actual context and facts of the era and situation.


    Regarding Jr.’s faith in the messianic qualities of the Internet (and the childish but amusing reference to Gutenberg — ask Michael Servetus and his champion, Sebastian Castellio how that turned out. There always were and always will be attempts to censor and silence those whose speech or printing press or internet communications broadcast a message contrary to that of the PTB: Abram of Ur’s first public act was to destroy the icons of all gods save his own.

    The Abrahamics are still at it, attempting to censor the internet. — see here https://platosguns.com/2015/12/09/falsely-accused-muslim-doctor-has-a-brilliant-response-to-american-bigotry-colintayloroccupydemocrats-com/#comment-11482

    and here
    <a href = "https://platosguns.com/2015/12/10/youtube-becomes-israels-new-battleground-against-palestinians-jonathan-cookredress-information-analysis/#comment-11497&quot; Youtube Becomes Israel's New Battleground

    • Replies: @Junior
  39. bondo says:
    @Kiza

    i appreciate much from whitney
    i dont agree with every sentence
    or every conclusion

    i’ve told him this

    as far as most read and appreciated, many neocons(jewcons + jewpets), neoliberals, are also read and appreciated.

    and

    even the most courageous truth seekers can only go so far. some truths have to be skirted.

  40. annamaria says:

    An excellent comment by Abe for an excellent paper by Alastair Crooke on Consortium:
    https://consortiumnews.com/2015/12/11/cornering-russia-risking-world-war-iii/

    “In an under-reported incident in which Russian Crimea’s power lines were severed from Ukraine, leaving the peninsula and over 2 million residents in darkness for over a week, it has become clear to the world the tenuous grip Kiev and its NATO backers actually have over the “Ukraine” they claim they preside over.
    While Crimea’s dependency on Ukraine for power and other necessities could have been used as a means of proving that the peninsula exists as an integral part of Ukrainian territory, by cutting power and being unable to rein in the terrorists who for over a week blocked repairs from the Ukrainian side, Kiev has all but proved it has no interest or ability to administer the region.
    That the terrorists in fact are backed by not only special interests now occupying Kiev, but by NATO and the United States in particular, illustrates the punitive measures Ukrainians and their neighbors face for falling on the wrong side of NATO and its proxies in Kiev. It also illustrates once again the impetus that drove the people of Crimea to wisely choose ascension into the Russian Federation rather than to remain a part of Ukraine in the first place.
    The illegitimacy of not only the regime in Kiev, but of NATO who created it and to this day perpetuates its existence, has helped erode the very principles both are now trying to appeal to in order to maintain the territorial integrity of Ukraine. Beyond Ukraine, similar scenarios are developing across all of Eastern Europe, where as NATO attempts to expand closer and closer to Russia’s borders, it is finding it increasingly difficult to find allies who are not extremists with ties to fascism and/or Nazism.
    By allying itself with these radical elements, those populations subjected to their NATO-backed domination of politics, economics, and security are more likely to turn toward Russia either as Crimea did, or as the break-away republics of Donetsk and Lugansk have.
    Beyond Eastern Europe, the continual violation of Syria and Iraq’s sovereignty by NATO is making it exponentially more difficult to appeal to sovereignty and territorial integrity in regards to Ukraine. The West has repeatedly called for the “Balkanization” of Syria into several weaker regions. As the balance of power turns in the region, and even globally, the West may find this contempt it has shown toward national sovereignty and the territorial integrity of existing nations backfire on it when its own allies face the same prospect of being carved up.
    Some may argue that Crimea’s ascension into the Russian Federation itself was only possible because the NATO-driven lawlessness that it occurred in the midst of. As this lawlessness continues, it is all but guaranteed that Crimea will only be driven deeper within the Russian Federation.

    “Crimea Loses Power Temporarily, Ukraine Loses Crimea Forever”
    By Tony Cartalucci
    http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2015/12/crimea-loses-power-temporarily-ukraine.html

    • Replies: @Kiza
  41. There is no sinister conspiracy to blame for the civil war enveloping this part of the world.

    There is no wizard behind the curtain orchestrating the madness.

    Never blame on a conspiracy what could just as easily be caused by human stupidity, crazy stupid people are running amok, stop pointing fingers at who is to blame, there is no individual group getting together in a room with maps deciding where to screw things up next, there is a bunch of assholes running around with AK47’s yelling allah akbar, or the name of whom ever paid them and that’s it, there ain’t no more.

    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @Kiza
    , @Junior
  42. Rurik says:
    @Dave Chamberlin

    There is no wizard behind the curtain…

    …or the name of whom ever paid them

    hmm

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  43. geokat62 says:

    …there is no individual group getting together in a room with maps deciding where to screw things up next…

    Allow me to do the introductions: Dave, meet the Israel Lobby. Israel Lobby meet Dave.

    • Replies: @Junior
  44. Kiza says:
    @annamaria

    Abe is, by far, the best commenter on consortiumnews.com. He has never ever swallowed the US regime propaganda, is extremely well informed and has always kept an independent mind. He is like Ronald Thomas West here on unz.com. Very switched on guy.

  45. Kiza says:
    @Dave Chamberlin

    Is your intention to cloud things up or are you just misguided yourself? The standard modus operandi is that “assholes running around with AK47′s yelling allahu akbar” are encouraged, organized and sometimes even financed by the Western terrorist services and then pretend that this is some Arab Spring or other similar propaganda invention. I have written before that the US terrorism know-how and the Saudi money have been combined to create terrorist hot-spots in so many places in the World: Chechnya, Bosnia, Middle East (e.g. Syria), North Africa (e.g. Libya), Central Africa, Xin Jiang and so on.

    There are divisions and dis-satisfied people everywhere, including in the West. But only with encouragement, organization and payments they become a serious force of evil.

    It is appropriate to say that whenever and wherever in the World the terrorists are Sunni, then they have been trained by the US and paid for by the Saudis.

  46. @geokat62

    Glad to see someone else objecting to Whitney’s loose language (which, as I used to tell researchers preparing drafts would be taken as prima facie evidence of loose thinking).

    I am prompted nonetheless to consider what one might have expected to have arisen in the way of fresh thinking when the Cold War was over. (I am a long way behind from never having read the PNAC or even Sam Huntington’s or Fukuyama’s most famous books.).
    1. Ours [yours] should be a responsible country. We have the overwhelming power so how do we use it? Iraq War l was a splendid demonstration to the Russians and everyone else that serious war was off the agenda if the US was interested. But the US failure to use sufficient ruthlessly effective force in Rwanda, Yugoslavia, Somalia… was all of a piece with Congressional letting down Vietnamese clients/allies/servants/friends in 1975.

    2. So, straight to traditional American Monroe Doctrine excepted isolationism. That seems to have been much of the self-indulgent thinking of the 90s, not helped by having a self-indulgent President who could be diverted by scandal. That isolationism could probably have survived the diversionary impacts on it of the military-industrial complex as such (perhaps not if you include the full stirring of the ME and if you add more oil industry interest in the ME than now seems rational). However…
    3. The hole in the policy of the superpower was easy for the neocons and (minority but rich and purposeful) Israel firsters to fill and so they did.

    I used to be sympathetic to a pedantic, rather than conspiratorial, view of the War on Terror. Indeed war is something that you declare on another state. That’s such a narrow view as not to be helpful. There’s plenty of precedent in metaphorical usage like War on Drugs, War on Crime, War on Child Abuse to make one think that there is a lot to be said for War on Terror if the words don’t dominate goals or methods. And a big part of its merits may be negative. After all it avoids saying anything hostile about Islam (or any particular religion) and thereby helping mad mullahs to produce more terrorists.

    • Disagree: SolontoCroesus
    • Replies: @geokat62
  47. anon • Disclaimer says:

    There are three thing happening.

    1) various factions arguing over oil

    2) Israel trying to get rid of Hizbollah

    3) possible sensible solution to the problem blurred by an attempt at divide and rule

    #

    1) The neocons want to get the US into a war with Syria that will depose Assad because they want to get rid of Hizbollah.

    2) Separately Kurds in Iraq have oil and need a way to sell it. They can already sell it south but the US wants to stop that as it helps ShiaIraq/Iran. So the US/Turkey want a slice of Iraq/Syria they can use as an alternative route to take the Kurdish oil out to the west. The Iraqi Kurds appear to be going along with this for now.

    3) So the neocon plan #A was to start a war after the gas attack in 2013. When that didn’t work their plan #B was to use Isis to get rid of Assad and then take out Isis afterwards and set up a pro-US govt in Syria.

    4) Plan #B has gone wrong because people have realised the neocons have only been pretending to fight Isis so they are throwing together a plan #C where they attack Isis directly with the help of Turkey. This plan is very risky as it could lead to a direct confrontation with Russia with the US/Turkey invading Syria from the east and Russia in the west.

    #

    5) The neocon version of splitting up the ME may be intended as divide and rule however that hides the fact that cantonalizing along ethno-sectarian grounds is probably the best long term solution. This would mean
    – Shiastan in southern Iraq
    – Sunnistan in northern Iraq and eastern Syria
    – Alawitestan in western Syria
    – Kurdistan

    The neocon divide and rule version of this division can never include Kurdistan (cos Turks) or Alawitestan (cos Hizbollah).

    However other countries could support it as a way of a) preventing a superpower clash in the middle of Syria and b) a possible long term solution.

  48. krollchem says:
    @Markus

    I would agree that it was wrong for a Gertrude Bell and other Westerners to draw the modern Middle East Borders.

    In the interest of self determination we also must return Israel to at least the 1967 borders and a Palestine state formed.

    As for Saudi Arabia the Shia Muslims of the Northern region should get a Shia state at the same time.

    While we are at it Turkey should be partitioned to give the Kurds their own state and the 1-2 million who fled Turkey in the 1990s should be allowed to reclaim their lands. Armenians need to reclaim their lands in Turkey as part payment for the Turkish genocide

    I could go on and on Mali, Algeria, Afghanistan, American Indians, Hawaiians, etc. I hope you understand where this is leading. In the end War-Bands will be everywhere.

  49. @geokat62

    Sounds to me like you’ve already got your marching boots on. So that’s 2 down and 999,998 to go.

    “Lies are what the world lives on, and those who seek the truth and live their lives in accord are not the many but the few.” – Joseph Campbell

    DECEMBER 10, 2015
    The Mislaid Rights of Man: How We Forfeit Our Own Rights—and Those of Others
    by JASON HIRTHLER

    • Replies: @geokat62
    , @geokat62
  50. geokat62 says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    … thereby helping mad mullahs to produce more terrorists.

    Wiz, it’s not the mullahs who are responsible for producing more terrorists. It’s the “neocons and (minority but rich and purposeful) Israel firsters” as you put it, who easily filled that hole in policy by getting the US to launch a crusade against “radical Islam” (better known as Israel’s enemies).

  51. geokat62 says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Thanks for sharing that link.

    Further to my response to WofO, here is how the author of the article described the toll so far the West has inflicted “in support of the neoconservative project of refashioning the Middle East as subservient backwater”:

    “… an estimated 600,000 Iraqi civilians have been killed following the invasion and occupation of Iraq; 500,000 children died between 1991 and 1998 as a result of sanctions imposed against the regime of Saddam Hussein. In Afghanistan since 2003 more than 250,000 civilians have been killed. More than 130,000 people disabled, mainly because of landmines, including 40,000 amputees among the civilian population according to Afghan governmental sources, and these figures are considered to be significantly underestimated According to the United Nations, the number of Afghan children and Afghan women killed in the first half of 2015 increased by 13% and 23%, respectively, with respect to the same period in 2014. There are an estimated 5 million orphans in Iraq; 2 million in Afghanistan where 20% of the children will not live to see their fifth birthday according to a report by the World Bank.

    The author hastens to ask:

    Is it any wonder some of these terrorized Arabs and Persians become themselves radicalized and turn to terror to strike back?

    So, Wiz, who is chiefly responsible for this radicalization you point to: the mullahs or the neocons/israel firsters who filled that hole in US foreign policy, as you rightly put it?

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  52. @Rurik

    “It’s not George Bush’s army, it’s not Don Rumsfeld’s army, it’s not your army, it’s not my army; it’s our army.
    We own it collectively.
    And I do believe that one of the obligations of citizenship, of ownership, is to understand the heritage and the values of that army. It’s story is our story, it’s faith is our faith.”

    Rick Atkinson, Pulitzer prize winning author of numerous books on WWII and other US military activities, in a speech about US/Allied campaign in N Africe; on the National Mall, October, 2003

  53. joe webb says:

    For the Follow the Money crowd, I ask: What does the Middle East sell? Answer, nothing but oil.
    Oil is dirt cheap now and will remain so for a very long time. There is no Peak Oil condition. Financial Times so concluded a few years ago and stated: we are not running out of oil , we ae running into it.

    Oil is sold all over the planet by dozens of countries. We do not middle east oil.

    Therefore, the follow the money argument, communist or otherwise is negated.

    What then? Israel of course, who engineered the whole neoconservative
    Trotskyist Permanent War, not just War in one or two countries.

    The Jews started the whole thing and all the chatter about contending forces is of some interest, but the idea that the US has strategic interests in the middle east is nonsense, except to serve the Jews.

    Funny how the author never mentions Israel and the Jews and neocons. Must be an agent.

    OF course it has now gotten complicated with the Allah out of the bottle, like the genie.
    Thus, the issue is: is it oil (economics ) or politics (Israeli imperialism using the US as proxy).

    the jewish wars here never were oil wars per the Left and are not now. The left is nutty, like it still thinks that Palestinian workers are going to join Israeli
    workers to overthrow capitalism. This is funny.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @Junior
  54. joe webb says:

    “Ultimately, the war on terror is a public relations fig leaf designed to conceal Washington’s attempt to rule the world. ”

    Does anybody believe this sophomoric and moronic commie?

    Washington already rules the world, or at least as much as it wants to. Wars are very expensive these days. You don’t throw toyota sized cannon shells out of battleships and missiles that cost up to a million dollars apiece …throw them around like confetti.

    You do the whole thing in trade, which is what Globalism is all about, and all these trade agreements that enrich the international pigs, etc. and starve the working classes. There is nothing to trade in the Middle East, except oil. We have spent about 2 to 3 trillion on the Jews over the last 20 plus years fighting their wars. The oil we have been getting out of there is peanuts. We are probably spending about 100 dollars per gallon if it is an oil war. It is not an oil war, it is a jewish war, and this guy is an agent for the jews.

    What an idiot, with an embalmed piece of Lenin’s heart squirting in this guy’s breast. Reminds me of Christopher Hitchens’ recent death-bed words to the effect…socialism…socialism…near death experiences.

    So it follows that all these terrorist attacks, the thousands of them are false flags. The Left is Dead, but the embalmed zombies got the old Red cliches slavering out of their mouths. The only way to kill a zombie of this type is to suffocate him….do not bother to read him, or comment.

    Joe Webb

  55. @geokat62

    You don’t seem to be one of those who allows preconceived ideas to dominate what you think you read or hear so I am a bit disappointed that you added something I didn’t say or imply to my observing that perhaps avoiding overt verbal attacks on Islam or Muslims as such by using the words War on Terror might interfere with the process of “mad mullahs” turning out terrorists.

    If anything I would have thought that implies “responsibility” (the concept you introduced unilaterally – the word and its cognates not having been used by me) should be attributed to warmongering neo-cons who have ensured that the US is associated in Muslims’ minds with the killing of large numbers of Muslims. That doesn’t mean Muslims who indoctrinate the young are not also responsible.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  56. @Colinjames

    It was never really secret, was it. The Neocons were clear about their intention to undermine several countries in the Middle East, including Iraq and Syria. Now they’ve done it. I don’t think you can call it a conspiracy if they’ve been open about it all along.

  57. geokat62 says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    That doesn’t mean Muslims who indoctrinate the young are not also responsible.

    I guess this takes us back to the debate I had with Avery about who is more responsible: An assassin or the person who paid the assassin to kill a particular person?

  58. @Kiza

    Can you provide any statistics in support of your claim about Mike? I have the impression that your admiration of this writer is based on your shared inclination to turn assumptions and personal wishes into facts. That is an unwelcomed trait that more often than not leads to faulty conclusions. For example the three categories of his opponents. I do not belong to any of them. Like most characters of your kind you make up for the lack of facts by closing your diatribe with insult.

    • Agree: Wizard of Oz
  59. annamaria says:

    Reposting geocat
    That should be into Obama/Hilary face every time they begin babbling about their “humanitarian concerns” in the Middle East and the “bad Muslims:”

    “… an estimated 600,000 Iraqi civilians have been killed following the invasion and occupation of Iraq; 500,000 children died between 1991 and 1998 as a result of sanctions imposed against the regime of Saddam Hussein. In Afghanistan since 2003 more than 250,000 civilians have been killed. More than 130,000 people disabled, mainly because of landmines, including 40,000 amputees among the civilian population according to Afghan governmental sources, and these figures are considered to be significantly underestimated According to the United Nations, the number of Afghan children and Afghan women killed in the first half of 2015 increased by 13% and 23%, respectively, with respect to the same period in 2014. There are an estimated 5 million orphans in Iraq; 2 million in Afghanistan where 20% of the children will not live to see their fifth birthday according to a report by the World Bank.”

    What is the US all-volunteer army if not an army of mercenaries? Sounds like a perfect business model but a lousy moral solution.
    http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2015/05/military-draft/394133/

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  60. @geokat62

    Well in my monastery we had quite a fight (only with hard baguettes and flying croissants so no blood shed) over the relative responsibility of the colleague who did the shooting for the chap in the wheelchair – one of our own I have to say: we’re very proud of this practical product of our innovation policy – when the latter was too weak to prime the bow as against that of the hired mercenary substitute for the incapacitated assassin who didn’t even ask who was being killed or why.

  61. @joe webb

    You go on to describe as “sophomoric” loose words about “Washington’s attempt to rule the world” and that is not an unjust criticism but I think your analysis of the ME affairs that the US has got itself involved in could benefit from a bit more than your agreeing with the FT (and me) that “peak oil” seems to be Purgatory (very much) Postponed. Your timing is out because the price of oil was over $100 a barrel as recently as 2013.

    • Replies: @joe webb
  62. @annamaria

    If you take mercenaries to be professionals rather than tribal, nationalistic or confessional fanatics – and in contrast to unwilling underpaid conscripts – you would recognise that they are more likely to keep POWs alive and not likely to behave like the average “peace keeper” from an African country…. So try making your point without the automatic negative connotation of “mercenary”.

  63. joe webb says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    OK Wiz, not being expert I assume that the price of oil nevertheless in managed by Saudi Arabia and OPEC and others to keep it politically correct for the West, or Washington, etc. The recent fall in oil prices may be due to Washington pressure to harm Russia.

    Point is however, that even at 100$ oil is still cheap, compared to say, even going back to the 60’s and figuring in a constant dollar price in inflation terms (right term? )

    Whatever jiggering of the price, there is a huge supply of oil all over the world.

    Therefore my argument still is correct….that oil is something we don’t need to fight wars over. All you have to do is buy it on a world market, which largely determine its price except when Saudi Arabia jacks up production hugely to bring the price down.

    We had a cozy relationship with the Middle East tyrants (which is all it will ever be there ) before the Jews got us fighting their wars.

    A friend gave me a great tag: paleo-communists..like Whitney and the other guy. They are not even up to date with regard to the current crop of Cultural Bolshevists usually called cultural marxism. Their intellectual system goes back to Monthly Review Press (0ld line marxist economism which was also heavily Stalinist) which may still be around. (Sweezy was one of them.)

    The thing read, and reads like Whitney, a glass bead game of hyper theoreticism in which one needs rabbinic facility in parsing words, concepts, abstractions, etc. all with a some kind of relationship to reality, but still largely but mostly, to be plain spoken, like the parable of the 5 blind men describing an elephant, one with his touch of the tail, then another touching the ear, the trunk, and so on.

    There is something plausible in there, but far from compleat. In other words, a very partial view, mostly driven by passion, not objectivity. It is really a hermeneutic now, you know, that fancy word that means stay away unless you know the magic name or password and then you are allowed in as long as you obey the rules. This assault on rationality emerged later really in the post-modernsim which denied Objectivity and even plausibility that was open to criticism, subject to evidence beyond the hermeneutic Wall erected by a Humpty-Dumpty claiming that a word means exactly what he says it means. and nothing else.

    However this old classic economistic marxism did not claim a hermeneuticism. It flat-out demanded that it , classic marxism, was true and subject to review and empirical testing. Well that was then, before the po-mo crowd of ex-marxists, anarchists, jews, homosexuals, and other preverts (!) demanded their Dignity, despite the fact that they denied any objective standards of dignity. They were alive, therefore…. Sorry, a bit of a sidebar here. To get back to Whitney and his paleo-communism, he does not claim a right to his own hermeneutic, beyond a rational perspective. His mode of “discourse” is old-line communism, which is fresh enough given the vagaries and theologies of post-modernism, and certainly welcome compared to the po-mo freaks.
    However, it is an wrong now as it was then. And easily refuted because there are no po-mo dodges, feints, morphs, and dialectics.

    Whitney might be a cryptic name. He is probably a trot, and jewish, and zionist.

    Joe Webb

  64. joe webb says:

    the graphic (map) that accompanies this article suggests complexity. It is a graphic that backs up at a subliminal level, the writer’s intention, to show how complicated everything is…It’s Chinatown, if you recall that line from the old movie…inscrutability. But…the communist explanation will explain everything. Trust Whitney. Follow The Money. US Imperialism, !Cuba si, yanqui no! The peepul united will never be defeated!

    Joe Webb

  65. Kiza says:

    When rants and ranters start overflowing a discussion topic it is time for bail out. Everything worth saying here has been said already, others have left. I bid a bye to all three categories of Mike Whitney opponents. Keep ranting here, this keeps you away from other topics.

    • Replies: @joe webb
  66. krollchem says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Why are you attacking Mike Whitney on a personal basis? I find that his works cover most of the major resource control wars of the Middle East. It is an extremely complex topic that I have been following for about 15 years.

    As for “peak oil”, please look up the meaning of this concept, as you appear to be using a popular misconception of the concept. Furthermore, the so-called current oil glut cannot be blamed on Saudi Arabia (as much as I would like to), as Saudi Arabia has only increased oil delivery by about one million barrels of oil/day with production costs of about $10/barrel. In contrast, the US fracking boom has added about 4.5 million barrels of oil/day.

    http://blogs.wsj.com/corporate-intelligence/2015/04/01/how-much-u-s-oil-and-gas-comes-from-fracking/

    Much of this added oil was economically profitable between and $60-$80+/barrel but a big loss at less that $40/barrel. Much of the losses have been adsorbed by “El Dorado” buyers of oil futures and their derivatives. Unfortunately, most of these hedges went away by September 2015. The fracking industry in the US is now losing about $135,000,000/day or approximately 50 billion/year. They will continue to pump from the current stripper wells to extend the time before they run out of investor money.

    Previously, the banks and hedge funds were losing as the oil price dropped below about $90/barrel. These losses from over investment into fracking will do a lot of economic and social damage to middle America. Globally, all other oil producing countries will be hurt which will add to a worldwide deflationary depression. See the automatic earth website for an accurate description of this deflationary process!

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  67. redscare says:
    @Tom_R

    Saving their sworn enemy: Heartstopping footage shows Israeli commassandos rescuing wounded men from Syrian warzone – but WHY are they risking their lives for Islamic militants?

    Elite Israeli troops rescue wounded Syrians from the world’s worst war almost every night
    They have saved more than 2,000 people since 2013, at a cost of 50 million shekels (£8.7million)
    Many are enemies of Israel and some may even be fighters for groups affiliated to Al Qaeda
    MailOnline embedded with Israeli commandos stationed on the border between Israel and Syria
    Dramatic video filmed by MailOnline and the Israeli army shows these operations taking place
    Israel says that the operation is purely humanitarian but analysts believe Israel also has strategic reasons
    For more of the latest news updates on the Syrian war visit http://www.dailymail.co.uk/syria

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3315347/Watch-heart-pounding-moment-Israeli-commandos-save-Islamic-militants-Syrian-warzone-risking-lives-sworn-enemies.html#ixzz3uDxxF4kg
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

    • Replies: @geokat62
  68. joe webb says:
    @Kiza

    kiss the mad A-rab, has no argument again, just scratching his itch, which he cannot quite reach.

    funny. Joe Webb

  69. joe webb says:

    correction, kiza, not kiss, but maybe the kiza needs some hugs, or some time-out…go read the Quran and dream about horny virgins.

    Joe Webb

  70. geokat62 says:
    @redscare

    Israel says that the operation is purely humanitarian but analysts believe Israel also has strategic reasons

    Why would anyone doubt Israel’s motivations? Why, one only needs to observe their treatment of the Palestinians to measure the extent of their humanitarianism.

  71. geokat62 says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Speaking of people power, thousands of Londoners marched yesterday to protest against UK intervention in Syria:

    https://www.rt.com/uk/325758-london-protest-syria-intervention/

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  72. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @Markus

    While partitioning may be the only solution moving forward, the issue is that maniacs like Bolton have been planning this for a LONG time and created the chaos to force this solution upon the people of the Middle East at the expense of UNTOLD numbers of lives. And that does not even begin to take into account the countless religious and ethnic cleansings that are bound to follow from these new FORCED borders that will be redrawn from the new partitioning. THAT is what is morally reprehensible about this partitioning.

    It was not done by the will of the people of those nations. It is US overthrowing secular regimes in which the people were living in RELATIVE peace and forcing new borders to make the area easier for us to control by placing our puppets in charge. That is why Imperialism, is EXACTLY what it is.

    Here is a piece on a Doha Debates poll taken in 2012 which showed that 55% of Syrians wanted Assad to remain in power. This poll was taken by the Qatar Government who are one of the most anti-Assad people out there. Also please note that the link to the report no longer works because Doha took it down because it doesn’t fit into the false narrative that this new Imperialist Partitioning is the will of the people.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/jan/17/syrians-support-assad-western-propaganda

    • Replies: @geokat62
  73. geokat62 says:
    @Junior

    That is why Imperialism, is EXACTLY what it is.

    Let’s be a little more precise and call it by its proper name, Zionist imperialism by proxy, shall we?

  74. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @Rurik

    The following is from the very article in wikipedia on Fragging which you posted.

    The high number of fragging incidents in the latter years of the Vietnam War were symptomatic of the unpopularity of the war with the American public and the breakdown of discipline in the U.S. armed forces.

    With Fragging, you are looking at a SYMPTOM or the EFFECT and not at the CAUSE, which was the unpopularity of the war. The fragging was NOT the cause of the unpopularity with the war. The fragging was a result FROM the unpopularity of the war. The unpopularity was the result of the American public being informed by the relative uncensored videos flashing across their TV screens every night and the pictures like the one of the South Vietnamese Officer executing the handcuffed suspected VC in the street during the Tet Offensive. An informed public stopped that war, NOT the fraggings which took place.

    If a commander orders you to commit a war crime and slaughter civilians, (something we all know has been done and is being done on a massive scale), then do you think it’s more moral and homerable to follow the orders? If the only alternative is to put a bullet into the psychopath’s brain pan, and take the consequences.

    Your false narrative of there being no alternative but murdering the commander is what completely makes your argument a false one. The sane alternative is called not following the order. The sane alternative is performing a citizens arrest on that commander to stop the slaughter from happening. The sane alternative is publicizing your case when dealing with the repercussions of not following the order. The sane alternative is NOT shooting said commander UNLESS you are acting in self-defense and fear for your life. The false narrative that there is no other alternative than to become a murderer yourself is an absolutely false and ridiculous one.

    Please consider; these wars are wrong. They are a crime against all known principles of International Law. We are retuning to the law of the jungle. We are becoming the very thing we hanged the Nazis for; a people who wage aggressive wars of conquest while slaughtering innocents willy-nilly. As SC pointed out, who would question the motives of a man who assassinated (fragged) Hitler in order to prevent so much of that insanity?

    The whole point is to NOT return to the law of the jungle. The whole point is that we must return to the law of our land and return to the principles that are supposed to be our foundation. As I pointed out earlier in my post to SC, this is a systemic problem. We are not being run by a dictatorship like was the case with Hitler in which, MAYBE, his death would have stopped the insanity. If a whole people have been brainwashed, then removing the leaders will do nothing because the people will still have the same beliefs and will just put someone else in charge with the same belief system and it’s right back to the status quo. MAYBE you win some inconsequential battle, but you are NOT winning the war. The people must be un-brainwashed and that is done through them getting the knowledge that they have been brainwashed in the first place. The only way to change a systemic problem is by changing public opinion to fix the whole system. Anything else is pointless. This aim is to win the war, not some unproductive battle that gets you nowhere.

  75. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @Tom_R

    HASBARA TROLLS ARE HERE, ATTACKING PATRIOTS, TELLING LIES.

    Jr, you sound like a Hasbara troll, calling Patriots crazy. It is a common scam of the mentally deranged Judaists, calling normal people crazy. Good scam!

    Your bullshit is NOT going to work on me Tom. You are NOT telling people to act Patriotically if you are telling them to act un-Patriotically by acting as Judge, Jury, and Executioner to shoot fellow Americans with no trial. You are not acting sane Tom, and I have my suspicions that you may even be ACTING insane. You are an extremist lunatic whose rants do nothing EXCEPT turn public opinion away from the truth. You mix half truths in with extremist bullshit and I see you for what you are behind your “Patriot” mask.

  76. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    jr and most others may not like it, but Hitler and NSDAP changed that situation: the poor were fed and housed; the middle class was employed; and the wealthy were persuaded that what was good for the lower classes was good for them, too… By implication, Jr. thinks that the attempts of those German elites to assassinate Hitler were A-ok.

    What in the hell are you talking about? Your attempt at misdirection is obvious, Solonto. I don’t know where you’re coming up with this talking-in-circles crap in which you’re trying to ascribe YOUR arguments to me but it’s fuckin ridiculous. YOU are the one arguing for the use of assassinations, NOT me. I don’t give a shit about Hitler and really don’t give a damn about what the NSDAP’s principles, if they had any, were. Fuck the both of ’em. What I care about is what America does, so stop trying to turn the discussion away from the actual topic of how stupid your assassination solution is.

    Regarding Jr.’s faith in the messianic qualities of the Internet (and the childish but amusing reference to Gutenberg — ask Michael Servetus and his champion, Sebastian Castellio how that turned out. There always were and always will be attempts to censor and silence those whose speech or printing press or internet communications broadcast a message contrary to that of the PTB

    Would you care to explain how Servetus, someone that was killed BECAUSE of the power of the printed word from Gutenberg’s Press, is an example of information not being powerful? I may act childish at times with my jokes, but my belief in the power of knowledge dissemination is FAR from childish. It is THE first step to any actual meaningful change occurring. Your logic about attempts being made to censor and silence (speech, books, and the internet) speaks to the power that all three hold. If you honestly think that in this new information age, in which ideas can be sent all across this globe in the blink of an eye, that the pen isn’t mightier than the sword… well then I think you may want to reconsider which one of us is childish.

    Plus, I can always use my pen in a sword stabbing motion to take out enemy eyes or use it like a throwing star which I’ve been practicing in my tree-fort dressed up as a ninja 🙂

    See, we’re both childish, Solonto. Me for my childish jokes and you for your childish ideas.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  77. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @Dave Chamberlin

    There is no sinister conspiracy to blame for the civil war enveloping this part of the world.

    sinister (ˈsɪnɪstə)
    adj
    1. threatening or suggesting evil or harm; ominous: a sinister glance.
    2. evil or treacherous, esp in a mysterious way
    Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged

    Yes, you are right about there being no sinister conspiracy if you define sinister as evil in a mysterious way because there is NO secret about it. These lunatics, that are trying to destroy the US sovereignty and bankrupt our souls, by entrenching us in wars for foreign governments and international corporations, and bankrupting our wallets through trade deals and crashing the dollar, are literally bragging all over the place about their plans and exactly how they’re going to do it if we allow them to. There aim is to bankrupt America and have us serve no other purpose than to be their Global Governance’s hired muscle.

    “And that’s why we’re failing in Iraq… because Iran and Syria know about the plan. All you have to do is read the Weekly Standard and listen to Bill Kristol and he blabbermouths it all over the world. Richard Perle the same way. They could hardly wait to finish Iraq so that they could move into Syria.” – General Wesley Clark (October 3, 2007)

    Here is Gen. Clark’s speech in which he tells about his knowledge of a part of their plan in 2007.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7NsXFnzJGw

    Here is a link to Biden and Gelb’s revealing of the CFR plan for the partitioning back in June 2006.
    http://www.nbcnews.com/id/12572371/ns/world_news-mideast_n_africa/t/biden-proposes-partitioning-iraq-regions/#.Vm51c15GSvA

    Here is a link to O’Hanlon’s revealing of the Brookings Institute plan for partitioning back in 2007. Happy that I used Brookings Mr. Whitney? 😉
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/12/AR2007011201950.html

    The Neo-Cons attack us from the right with their bankrupting wars for foreign interests, and the Neo-Libs attack us from the left with their bankrupting trade deals that also hand US sovereignty over to International Courts. It is a Globalist Empire that they are trying to build, NOT an American Empire. Not that ANY kind of Empire is good, but a lot of people fail to recognize this difference when analyzing their actions and their plans that they boast of. I could literally give you hundreds of examples of these people bragging openly about their Globalist plans for empire and America’s place in them as nothing more than a tool to achieve their goals, but instead I’ll leave you with one of the most disturbing examples that always sends a chill down my spine. It is of George Soros bragging about how the plan is to crash the world reserve currency, US Dollar, before China is able to do anything about it(BRICS) to bring about, HIS words, a “New World Order”.

  78. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @geokat62

    Thank you for the laugh, geokat62. Hilarious and so true. Truth and Comedy, that’s a powerful mixture ya got brewin, geo 🙂

  79. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @joe webb

    For the Follow the Money crowd, I ask: What does the Middle East sell? Answer, nothing but oil… Oil is sold all over the planet by dozens of countries. We do not middle east oil.

    Therefore, the follow the money argument, communist or otherwise is negated.

    I am GUESSING that what you intended to say was “We do not need middle east oil.” If this is in fact what you are saying, then you are missing the whole point of just how complex the mess that we are in, in the Middle East is. Yes, we do not need their oil. What we DO need is for them to force all the nations that buy their oil to buy that oil using the Dollar. It’s called the petro-dollar and I suggest that you read up on it before showing your ignorance of distinctions, like you do with your showing of ignorance by your failure to recognize the difference between Judaism and Zionism. Religion has absolutely NOTHING to do with this other than the fact that the Elite use religion and peoples faith as a tool to acquire more power.

    Sadly, the petro-dollar is one of the only things that is keeping this economy from completely collapsing and is ONE of the major reasons for all this madness in the Middle East. Political Zionism’s control of our political system along with our dependence on the Saudi petro-dollar are both factors that can NOT be ignored, but at least with the petro-dollar there is at least SOME semblance of rational behind our un-holy alliance which the Saudi’s are using to turn us into nothing but pawns in their disgusting power grabs. I’m not exactly sure what to do about getting out of this petro-dollar deal from hell that we have made with the Saudi-Devils, but what I DO know is that your incredibly naive simpleton solution of “Ignore the petro-dollar. It’s all the Jews fault. Blame the Jews.” definitely isn’t it.

    Here is an article about the petro-dollar. It is written by someone trying to sell a book and gold so you should bear in mind that he has an agenda, but he uses a TON of facts to support his article. I think that the website’s name is extremely appropriate in regards to your question that you ask to the “Follow the Money crowd”. The website is called “FTM: Follow The Money” and following the money is EXACTLY what you need to be doing if you want to have any hope at trying to figure out just what the hell is going on in this world.

    http://ftmdaily.com/preparing-for-the-collapse-of-the-petrodollar-system/

    • Replies: @joe webb
  80. geokat62 says:
    @Junior

    Pardon the interruption, Jr., but I just wanted to point out something about S2C’s moniker and how you’ve shortened it to Solonto:

    Your attempt at misdirection is obvious, Solonto…. See, we’re both childish, Solonto.

    His handle comes from a story included in Herodotus Histories about a very wealthy king of Lydia named Croesus who had asked his Greek guest, the Athenian lawgiver Solon, who the happiest man was:

    Solon goes on to explain that Croesus cannot be the happiest man because the fickleness of fortune means that the happiness of a man’s life cannot be judged until after his death. Sure enough, Croesus’ hubristic happiness was reversed by the tragic deaths of his accidentally-killed son and… his wife’s suicide at the fall of Sardis, not to mention his defeat at the hands of the Persians, [after misinterpreting an oracle he received at Delphi].

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croesus

    To cut a long story short, Croesus had been placed upon a great pyre by the victorious Persian king, Cyrus the Great, who watched Croesus call out “Solon, Solon, Solon,” recalling that Solon had warned him of the fickleness of good fortune. This touched Cyrus and he set Croesus free.

    • Agree: tbraton
    • Replies: @Junior
  81. @geokat62

    Personally, I could not participate in an assassination — I think Nietzsche spoke of the “power of the knife but not of the blood.”

    I had long thought that powerful writing would change history, as did Harriet Beecher Stowe and Tom Paine.

    But the neoconservatives are still on the loose. We know what the fear because their pronouncements are projections: they fear physical force. That fear should be made imminent; why should Victoria Nuland ever have a sound night’s sleep? Why should Bill Kristol ever feel he could walk down the street in peace and tranquility?

    [MORE]

    Cicero
    Justifying the Assassination of Julius Caesar

    This selection from Cicero’s On Duties provides a justification for the assassination of Julius Caesar (44 BCE). Some senators feared that Caesar aimed to establish a typical Hellenistic monarchy over Rome with himself as absolute king. The very word king was abhorrent to patriotic Romans, who gloried in their status as free citizens of a five-centuries-old republic. On March 15, 44 BCE, Caesar was slain by some sixty senators, who acted, they said, to restore the liberty of the Roman people. Cicero did not participate in the assassination.

    http://historymuse.net/readings/CiceroJustifiesAssassination.htm

    BOOK III xxi.

    Our tyrant deserved his death for having made an exception of the one thing that was the blackest crime of all. Why do we gather instances of petty crime – legacies criminally obtained and fraudulent buying and selling? Behold, here you have a man who was ambitious to be king of the Roman People and master of the whole world; and he achieved it! The man who maintains that such an ambition is morally right is a madman; for he justifies the destruction of law and liberty and thinks their hideous and detestable suppression glorious. But if anyone agrees that it is not morally right to be kind in a state that once was free and that ought to be free now, and yet imagines that it is advantageous for him who can reach that position, with what remonstrance or rather with what appeal should I try to tear him away from so strange a delusion? For, oh ye immortal gods! can the most horrible and hideous of all murders – that of fatherland -bring advantage to anybody, even though he who has committed such a crime receives from his enslaved fellow-citizens the title of “Father of his Country”? Expediency, therefore, must be measured by the standard of moral rectitude, and in such a way, too, that these two words shall seem in sound only to be different but in real meaning to be one and the same.

    What greater advantage one could have, according to the standard of popular opinion, than to be a king, I do not know; when, however, I begin to bring the question back to the standard of truth, then I find nothing more disadvantageous for one who has risen to that height by injustice. For can occasions for worry anxiety, fear by day and by night, and a life all beset with plots and perils be of advantage to anybody?

    nb. Cicero was himself assassinated most brutally.

    Cicero believed his political career was his most important achievement. It was during his consulship that the Second Catilinarian Conspiracy attempted to overthrow the government through an attack on the city by outside forces, and Cicero suppressed the revolt by executing five conspirators without due process.
    During the chaotic latter half of the 1st century BC marked by civil wars and the dictatorship of Gaius Julius Caesar, Cicero championed a return to the traditional republican government.
    Following Julius Caesar’s death Cicero became an enemy of Mark Antony in the ensuing power struggle, attacking him in a series of speeches. He was proscribed as an enemy of the state by the Second Triumvirate and consequently executed by soldiers operating on their behalf in 43 BC after having been intercepted during attempted flight from the Italian peninsula. His severed hands and head were then, as a final revenge of Mark Antony, displayed in the Roman Forum.

    Cicero was one of Machiavelli’s heroes; Machiavelli shared Cicero’s passion for “traditional republican government” — rule by the people.

    • Replies: @joe webb
    , @annamaria
    , @geokat62
  82. joe webb says:
    @Junior

    well, junior, and i resist the personalistic temptation to press, that one…the Fed-Jews-petro dollar argument has been around for probably many years older than you or me.

    Every country hss a central bank, just as every small town had a bank, to begin with.

    The Fed conspiracy is another nutty one, jews notwithstanding.

    The Petro Dollar is nonsense. The US dollar has nothing to do with oil, except insofar as the initial set-up included that the US dollar was to be used for trade. This was because of the strength of the US dollar compared to other currencies. Every actor agreed to it.

    As I keep repeating, the US dollar, like the Cuban peso, is used or not used because of what it will buy. In the case of the dollar, it buys lots of stuff whereas the Cuban peso buys only s little bit of pretty good gelato.

    Fiat Money is another crazy argument, and if you have not figured that out by now, you never will.

    The dollar buys stuff because it does….that simple. A corollary of this is that gold buys next to nothing, except when people panic.

    Now that China is making a bid for its currency to be used, internationally, at least in part in buying oil, there could be another international currency used. So what? (Right now China is in big trouble and who wants to use their international currency?)

    If it happened, a lot of US dollars floating around would theoretically but not necessarily be worth less. What the ramifications of that are is that internationally,, other countries’ currencies would buy more US dollars, and a country like China which apparently holds a couple or more trillion US dollars, would be encouraged to spend them, and that would help the US by stimulating the purchase of our goods. It would also incentivize China to stop hoarding US dollars, and get them more focused on their own consume demand problem. This would then stimulate appetite maybe for US goods. The US dollar could stand ratcheting down a bit…it would address our trade deficit.

    Meanwhile, if you have travel itches, get to Europe while the US Dollar is beating the hell out of the Euro. IF you want to go elsewhere, like the turd world, buy a life insurance policy.

    The notion that a global financial crisis would follow the loss of the so-called Petro Dollar does not make sense. It just means that other players get into the game and adjustments follow.

    A global financial crisis is probably imminent but not because of your argument. Stagnations is everywhere, US economic growth continues more or less downward over the last 5 years or so.

    Now what would affect the US dollar internationally would be a huge recession or worse. Credit is what drives an economy, even a socialist economy, assuming that planners under socialism have any brains and are more interested in their economy than lining their pockets.

    Your personal attacks are just more of the same on this list, and of course, elsewhere. Face to face I doubt your behavior would be the same, either because you are basically a gentleman, or if not, you are sufficiently cowardly to be over impressed by what I look like.

    Joe Webb

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
    , @Junior
  83. joe webb says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    so Solon, you establish your alibi but encourage others to do the dirty work. another coward?

    Joe Webb

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  84. tbraton says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    “What reason is there to use one’s time reading Mike Whitney? ”

    Well, the solution to your problem is real simple, Wizard of Ooze. Just don’t read his blogs, and just don’t post any messages responding to his blogs. The fact that you are urging others not to read his blog tells me that your objection to him goes well beyond disliking his messages to the point where you regard his messages as dangerous to your cause.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  85. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @geokat62

    Interesting story in the article. I had not heard of Croesus before(a surprise to me when I read about his having been the first to issue standardized gold coins) and always assumed that S2c’s moniker was his real name. Thanks for clearing up what the 2 in S2C means… and for helping me not sound like an idiot when I shorten his name 🙂

  86. @joe webb

    the Nietzsche statement should read: “Courage of the knife but not of the blood.”

    Yes, Joe Webb, exactly right.

    Many assassins live long and prosper. Many assassins who change history by their deeds die in the doing. I don’t have that courage.
    That does not change what I believe to be not merely a pattern in history but a law of nature: no tyrant, certainly not those who have taken control of our government, give up power peacefully. The PNAC people knew that they needed a Pearl Harbor event to carry off their scheme and, mirabile dictu, one occurred. The laws of nature dictate that every action requires an equal and opposite reaction.
    Internet warriors, however passionate, are not the equal of those who have the wealth and sense of impunity to topple skyscrapers, slaughter thousands, and suborn entire governments to their purposes.
    Moreover, those same wealthy tower-topplers also control the internets that some think will bring salvation sans sanguination.
    It ain’t gonna happen.
    C Span is one more of the mouthpieces for the Dark State, the shadow elite, the PTB. Over the past two months + C Span has hosted one after another of experts and serious people who argue that in order to stop ISIS, it is necessary to interdict their social media and other forms of internet communication. If the Dark State can shut down ISIS social media, they can do the same to you and me.
    Hell, the same people who set up the major social media platforms (and likely as not taught ISIS how to use them) are now telling us that ISIS access to social media needs to be curtailed and are collaborating with government to do so.

    Many assassins live long and prosper: Herschel Grynspzan deliberately killed the German foreign minister in Paris. He was lauded for his deeds by rockstar journalist Dorothy Thompson, who established a fund for his defense.
    Thompson was the darling of the zionists, the Anglos, and the plutocrats who, even as the Bolsheviks were killing their millions in the early 1930s were investing in Stalin’s Russia while pumping for war against Germany. Thompson lived high off the hog prostituting her writing skills to the advancement of the Anglo zionist agenda.
    Then a funny thing happened: she visited zionised Palestine and was appalled at the mistreatment suffered by indigenous Arabs and Christians there. After writing with equal force against zionism, she quickly tumbled from rockstar to pariah and was expelled from the pigpen.

    How ’bout you, Joe Webb?
    Courage of the knife?
    Courage of the blood?

    How do you think this is going to end?

    • Replies: @joe webb
  87. @joe webb

    Interesting Steve Forbes talk on the idiocy of the Fed and of magic money (coat-check tokens that, if more are produced, will somehow create more people to eat in restaurants).

    • Replies: @joe webb
  88. @tbraton

    Start again with a different – and correct – premise, namely that I have no cause except not wishing to waste my own time on people who waffle, deploy sloppy arguments, use sloppy rhetorical words and phrases and otherwise have no proven expertise. I detect some admiration for Mike Whitney and perhaps his admirers will forgive him the flatulent pot boilers when he lacks time or inspiration to do better.

    So I ask for advice. What can one expect from MW on his good days. If he writes about the ME from Washington state it is particularly pertinent to ask where and how he gets his information whereby he can claim to add value to what is general knowledge. If his added value comes from cerebration I will continue to ask for something better than the sloppy rhetoric I took exception to.

    BTW someone implied without spelling out that I had misused the term “peak oil”. I think I used it derisively wrt MW’s “dwindling resources”. Correctly IMO.

    I would like to think the people I read regularly would stand up well to good professional cross-examination and not just blow more smoke.

    So, what’s your case for reading MW? And on what issues?

  89. annamaria says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Thank you for the beautiful story.

  90. @krollchem

    Nothing personal. I just don’t like wasting time and sloppy words are one of the markers I use – like non-responsive answers from people who don’t appear to know that they are not dealing precisely with the critical point – to decide not to waste more time.

    MW may have written for years about matters that interest you and that you know something about but that alone would only count as evading the point of my implicit question about the value he adds.

    You seem to have said that my derisive reference to “peak oil” is somehow unfair to MW. My understanding of peak oil is precisely what you get from Googling. Isn’t MW’s reference to “declining resources” to be taken as meaning something indistinguishable? Mind you the good ol’ price mechanism hasn’t just produced fracked oil and gas it’s going to make all those climate conferences evaporate in hot air thanks to the West’s dysgenic breeding having become irrelevant to the still increasing rate of innovation that really took off in the 18th century. There are still millions of spare Chinese and Indian IQ points and other gifts to ensure that even our asteroid detectors are run on solar power when our greatgrandchildren are pushing 120 and complaining about having to give up tennis. Marvellous invention that divisible money stuff.

  91. geokat62 says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Personally, I could not participate in an assassination…

    Assassination? Did I miss something? I had to go back and check the webpage I linked to, to make sure I hadn’t inadvertently linked to a Mossad-sponsored site that provides online instructions on how to assassinate Iranian nuclear scientists.

    Perhaps you were referring to the list of names I’ve been compiling that demands accountability for those who were responsible for launching an illegal war of aggression against Iraq and those who were responsible for facilitating torture against innocent victims?

    On a more serious note, I recall your mentioning you would provide a much deeper analysis on NM. Perhaps a good place to start is the following comment:

    Cicero was one of Machiavelli’s heroes; Machiavelli shared Cicero’s passion for “traditional republican government” — rule by the people.

    Can we agree that “the traditional republican government” to which you refer is not really “rule by the people” as the republican form of government in Ancient Rome (509BC-27BC) was based on the principle of indirect democracy:

    Roman government was headed by two consuls, elected annually by the citizens and advised by a senate composed of appointed magistrates.

    It was certainly not a direct democracy (derived from the Greek roots demos (people) and kratia (rule)), which was first established in Ancient Athens in 508 BC, in the sense that all the citizens of the polis get to vote on each bill before it becomes law.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  92. @geokat62

    Correct, Niccolò did not envision a direct democracy but rather the form of representative republicanism as practiced by the Romans.

    Power flowed around three points — a monarch-like figure, an aristocratic body, and the people, and whichever power center or combination of power centers was most appropriate for the time and circumstance should coalesce to rule the Republic.

    The system demanded that the people as well as their leaders possess virtu — manly or moral courage, which would mean, for example, that a leader should have the courage to dispatch a usurper in order to protect the principality (The Prince is not the title Machiavelli gave to his work; he was describing, rather, The Principality).

    It is to this extent that NM maintained that otherwise immoral means — i.e. assassination — could be used to achieve a greater good — the well-being of the principality. Neoconservatives like Michael Ledeen misinterpret “the end justifies the means” in at least two ways: first, NM never really wrote that; and second, they use the concept to endorse immoral ends, such as the total destruction of Germany, Iraq, Syria, etc.

    NM asserted that if the entire system became so corrupt that the populace as a whole had lost virtu, then the only salvation would be for a tyrant to take over; impose his will autocratically, for only that length of time that it took for the people to be reinvigorated, then step aside and return the city to its republic status, whereupon the three-point system would reassert itself.

    NM did not believe that wealth conveyed authority/power; the support of the people was the sole arbiter of authentic power.

    To understand The Prince accurately it is essential to grasp the depth of NM’s passion for the wellbeing of Florence, the city that he “loved more than his soul.” Ledeen and the neocons simply do not have the moral apparatus for that ultimately selfless passion: it is a Christian, or rather, Jesusian notion in a fundamental sense. NM deplored the Roman Catholic institution but was profoundly informed by the classical Christianity of Dante.

    • Replies: @geokat62
    , @joe webb
  93. geokat62 says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Niccolò did not envision a direct democracy but rather the form of representative republicanism… [in which] Power flowed around three points…

    I must say that I have always been skeptical of any system in which someone else has been nominated to represent my interests. I believe it is referred to in the literature as the Principal-Agent Problem.

    As I’ve commented before, matters as important as foreign policy that involve life and death decisions should never be contracted out to a third party. That’s why I’m a big proponent of direct democracy. Given the requirement for every citizen to be present at the Assembly to vote, however, this form of government had the unfortunate limitation of being practical for smaller-scale communities, or city-states. With the advent of computers and the Internet, however, people can congregate in a virtual Town Hall to deliberate on the merits of proposed legislation and to cast their votes.

    But if we’re “stuck” with representative democracy for the foreseeable future, and if “the entire system [has become] so corrupt that the populace as a whole [has] lost virtu,” the question becomes: who will be the tyrant to win our salvation, today?

    • Replies: @geokat62
  94. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @joe webb

    Your oversimplification of the situation really is amazing. You seem to be endorsing Soros’s plan for the collapse of the US economy by China. You should tuck in your Globalist undershirt, Joe. It’s showing.

    So are you trying to tell me that financial gain has nothing to do with these wars and that it’s all motivated by the Put-Israeli-Firsters?! You are ignoring putting the blame on all the various financial beneficiaries of war like the MIC and it really is quite ridiculous.

    Every country hss a central bank, just as every small town had a bank, to begin with.

    Yes, every country has a Central Bank but not every central bank is controlled by the Central Bankster Cartels. A prime example of this would be Libya in which the Central Bank used to be 100% state owned. We have their secular regime overthrown and what is the FIRST thing that these Libyan “Rebels” do? They set-up a Central Bankster controlled Central Bank and an oil company to rob the Libyan people blind. If that isn’t a clue to you that a conspiracy exists to control nations selling of oil(Like with the PetroDollar) and controlling nations money supplies (Like with the Fed) and that this conspiracy controls our foreign policy choices based at least partially on those motives, then I have no idea what WOULD convince you.

    http://www.thenewamerican.com/world-news/africa/item/8318-libyan-rebels-create-central-bank-oil-company

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/42308613

    http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/wow-that-was-fast-libyan-rebels-have-already-established-a-new-central-bank-of-libya

    Your personal attacks are just more of the same on this list, and of course, elsewhere. Face to face I doubt your behavior would be the same, either because you are basically a gentleman, or if not, you are sufficiently cowardly to be over impressed by what I look like.

    I seem to remember a certain poster that writes Joe Webb at the bottom of every post screaming at me about how I was crazy on another thread not all that long ago, so please spare me your righteous indignation about personal attacks. Although I’m quite sure that all men quake in your presence(you must be big as a tree), if we met face to face then I would rather hope that we would have a beer and have some very interesting conversations trying to figure out what the hell is going on in this crazy world like gentlemen, or if not, as I’ve said I have been practicing my ninja moves so be prepared to feel the wrath of my bic pen axe chop 🙂

    • Agree: Kiza
    • Replies: @joe webb
  95. joe webb says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    I listened to Forbes, thank you. HIs example of coat-checks is logically not a good parallel to money. The coat check is good for only one thing, etc. and money is good for everything.

    He also said that money has no inherent value but that it is like a ruler or a scale to measure things, or weigh things.

    Then he said that gold actually is worth something , but unfortunately it gets fooled around with by the market. He does not suggest how that fooling around with the price of gold could be eliminated to achieve that Perfect Unmoved Mover of the Gold Standard.

    The fact is that gold is not and never has been an Unmoved Mover, with an absolute value.

    So, nevertheless, it could arguably be considered a damper on extreme movements of the price. Maybe.

    This brings up the same problem that currency has. A bank run could happen on gold just as readily as a run to get your dollars or euros out of the bank if panic starts.

    [MORE]

    Then, after the gold is redeemed for bills/currency, or the gold simply runs out, then what?
    Then gold would be exchanged in trade, and it would be clumsy, and then gold certificates would be issued instead of the gold itself, and we would be back where we started.

    The issue is what the gold or the currency can buy. That is what it is worth. In an economic environment of plenty of goods to buy and sell, the price of the good/gadget or service depends on the general level of productivity. The productivity of labor and capital has been very high here until very recently; now with productivity stagnating. (Why that is I don’t know, but reasonably it is possible that an maximum could be reached thru technology, etc, beyond which no more can be squeezed, short of beating wages down to a starvation , or non-replacement level of workers, which is impossible, unless the economy is to die.

    We are back to “fiat money.” Actually the term is a misnomer. It is illogical as a formulation. Just as gold or currency has no absolute value. There is no way that a Declaration of Worth of a piece of currency is possible. This is because the thing-in-itself, a dollar bill for example, being tied to the overall productivity and confidence in the US economy, will fluctuate. Also, because a small inflation rate is necessary to prevent falling into deflation (which tends to slow everything down, and worse) the dollar bill loses a bit of its value every day, or year.

    Inasmuch as this is the nature of money, a temporary evaluator of all things material, it is hard to understand for most of us and I have thought a fair amount about it.

    Take the US per capita GDP. It is around 50,000 dollars a year. Take the Ukraine per capita GDP. It is around 5,000 dollars. Why is this? First of all I omit the “basket of goods” comparison between the two countries. But, if you take something that is internationally pretty standardized in price, like a car, the Ukrainian is going to work a lot more hours to get that car than the worker in the US. It is overall productivity. Plus political factors of instability, etc.

    Here is another issue: Credit. Fractional reserve banking is the motor of credit. It is like magic. A banker loans money he does not have, or he only had a fraction of the total amount loaned. He writes checks to the borrower, who in turn buys things to invest, build, etc. This grows an economy. Not all bankers are rich because some loans fail, etc. This is the ideal-type way a bank works. A gold standard would require recalibration or comemensuration (?) as the money supply increased…a problem.

    Here is my recipe for fixing the economy, all capitalist economies. Ideally, a nationalist economics would guide policies. Your country first. Secondly, all international financial arrangements would have to pass the nationalist test (is it good for White people, or the US generally). This would entail ending the grifter control of banking and finance, etc. All the tricky funny financial instruments would be pared down so that anybody with an IQ of 115 could understand them.

    More importantly, the problem with our economy, and probably European economies as well, besides the free-loading minorities and muds generally who are too stupid to be able to contribute to high productivity should be unloaded to whatever is politically feasible…..the Problem is under-consumption, or low demand for consumer goods, the driver of all economies.

    This is the problem which the grifters who rule us will not face. The reason for this very low demand is that people don’t have adequate wages and salaries. The average worker now in the US makes under $30 k a year, or, half of the workers now receive 30 thousand a year or less.

    Meanwhile there are huge reserves of capital just parked on the sidelines. Probably at least 10 trillion US dollars worth of capital is parked somewhere doing nothing in Europe and the US.
    That is the reason that interest rates are so low. There is nothing much to invest in because of the stagnation, again, due to the first cause…low consumer demand.

    Just today, the Fed analysts said that despite the Fed’s cheerleading about raising interest rates lately, it ain’t going to happen, not for years. This is stagnation.

    So monetary policy is important, but more fundamental is just what I have been describing. I am more or less a Keynesian, but, that said as they say, the Keynesian cycle shows no sign of completing itself…bad times giving way to good times with consequent need to cool-off some the heat of a boom by making money harder to get (upping interet rates) calling in loans (however that is done) and burning literally greenbacks that have presumably done their job of stimulation.

    The reason the keynesian cycle is not working is that the engine is starved of consumer spending. which I have stated about 3 or 4 times now.

    That is the problem. Now any discussion of money I would love to hear because I could be wrong, though unlikely.
    Joe Webb

  96. joe webb says:
    @Junior

    Jr. depends on what you mean by financial gain. I assume you mean private gain by individuals or corporations.

    There absolutely is zero gain for the US treasury. These wars have cost us 2-3 trillion dollars.

    Now if you mean that arms contractors are making some money, of course they are…trivial amounts. I hope you do not mean these arms makers.

    The US military used to be spending around half a trillion a year. What that is now is probably higher but I don’t know. If you consider all the costs of the military, pensions, salaries, combat costs, etc, then what is the total spent on munitions? I would guess 75 billion. Probably less, much less, come to think about it…

    That, in a total GDP of the US at about 16 or 17 trillion dollars, is very little, not exactly a drop in the bucket, but when put up against thousands of lobbyists with their hands in the till…not much.

    So what are you talking about here.? What capitalists, what firms, etc?

    The oil industry absolutely did not want the Iraq wars, and I guess they don’t want these wars either. A few years ago at leftie meeting in San Jose CA I took on the jewcommie Greg Palast on this theme…typical leftie yelling about war profiteers. Bunk.

    We do not go to war for these guys. War is too expensive and dangerous .

    As for your remarks about Soros, I have no idea what your are talking about.

    And yes, I do think that all of these wars are for Israel, including the drums beating for hunting the Russian bear. The Jews control our foreign policy. They were thrown out of Russia and the Jew Power curbed. That is why they hate Russia.

    Joe Webb

    • Replies: @Junior
  97. joe webb says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    nice. This Greco-Roman virtu is White and only White..

    I have started Ricardo Duchesne’s , The Uniqueness of Western Civilization. 500 pager in large part on the attack of recent historiography on the West, on “Eurocentrism.”

    A significant actor, historian in all of this was Andre Gunder Frank whom I met in Mexico 50 year ago (!) and kept up some with for a dozen years. Nice guy, Jew, commie of sorts who always called me a liberal and maybe I was since I never did embrace his Development of Underdevelopment stuff on latin America.

    Anyway, Duchesne has spent 10 writing this book to defeat the arguments of the Deconstructors, Assassins of Eurocentrism, and other haters of the West, White men, and shall we say, virtu.

    Joe Webb

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  98. joe webb says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Solon. first, I am old, and losing my life with my kids grown up, is not such big deal if we get into some kind of civil war. So I got the blood, and the rest remains in the context of self-defense legally.

    I do not approve of assassination because it usually backfires, if for no other reason. What we need right now is for some of us to get assassinated by the Jews, Lefties, or muzzies…that would really bring on the crisis faster. We need martyrs, like that Dutch guy murdered by muzzies.

    [MORE]

    I don’t know how things will end, but I sure am optimistic that This Is It. The time has come.
    The jews and liberals are crowing about FN “rejected” by the French. This is whistling in the dark. This is just the beginning generally, here and in Europe. White Nationalism, sans AH, is the only approach that ultimately is more or less the answer. Howver, negotiation and cooperation with folks who are not so disposed, maybe yet, is fine. That is a political process, the stuff of politics.

    Who would have predicted two years ago, the migrant crisis and Trump? All we need is a few more muzzie terrorist attacks, and a good recession or worse, and the mexers and finally the blacks are going to be in the hot seat. Where I live in Silicon Valley, even the liberals 40 plus in age, have pretty well had it with blacks, mexicans, and now especially the chinese.

    They may still vote for Hillary, but they are thinking bad thoughts anyway. As for the rest of the country…people are moving to the right. I do not see anything that can slow down our advance, unless economic Good Times were to arrive from outer space.

    The economy is fragile, and as I wrote below on economics and banking, the economic history of the last 5 years is downward in growth here in the US. In Europe it is floundering. These liberals are incapable of understanding the economics of dumb southern people…Arab and African IQ at 85 and 67 respectively. There is no way they can support themselves…another drain on the economy. Half of our mexers are on welfare, even when working. They are a net loss, like the blacks, to the economy. Right now the commodities market is blowing up…the WSJ has been warning about it for several weeks.

    Meanwhile enjoy the liberals frantically consulting their thesaurus for more adjectives…I saw, Harry Reid a day or so calling Trump’s call for collaring the muzzies…”despicable.” Where do you go after that? To the gun store?

    Great to be alive to see the rosy-fingered dawn of the counter-revolution.
    Joe Webb

    • Replies: @geokat62
  99. anon • Disclaimer says:

    The idea I get about this Mike Whitney fellow is he fantasises about being Putin’s He-Ho, you know. This fellow would gladly bend over, if his idol will but ask.

    The following is from an article in CounterPunch.

    “Putin throws down the gauntlet
    :
    None. He has no choice. His back is against the wall. He has to fight. No one in Washington seems to get this. They think Putin can throw in the towel and call it “quits” at the first sign of getting bogged down. But he can’t throw in the towel because Russia’s facing an existential crisis. If he loses, then Russia’s going to wind up on the same scrap heap as Afghanistan, Iraq or Libya. You can bet on it. So the only thing he can do is win. Period. Victory isn’t an option, it’s a necessity.”

    Russia’s facing an existential crisis? What happens in Syria is an existential crisis for Russia? WTF is he talking about.

    • Replies: @geokat62
    , @annamaria
  100. geokat62 says:
    @joe webb

    .. the rosy-fingered dawn…

    Joe, given my Hellenic roots, these words are near and dear to my heart. That’s why I expected to see quotes around it and proper attribution to Homer.

    Here’s the phrase in context:

    Now when the child of morning, rosy-fingered Dawn, appeared, Nestor left his couch and took his seat on the benches of white and polished marble that stood in front of his house. [Odyssey]

    But when the sun set and darkness came on, they lay down to rest by the stern cables of the ship, and as soon as early rosy-fingered Dawn appeared, then they set sail for the wide camp of the Achaeans. [Iliad]

    • Replies: @joe webb
  101. @joe webb

    nice. This Greco-Roman virtu is White and only White..

    I’m pretty sure the Italy that Machiavelli wrote about, from the time of Livy to the city states, was multi-culti! Niccolò traveled to the German principates (he admired their forms of political organization and security); Egyptians were part of the Roman empire; Rome carried on border wars with the Persian empire (or its successors) for six or seven centuries; Slavs and Arabs were on the edges of the Mediterranean, Rome’s unifying super-highway. Italy traded extensively with India, the Chinese and others along the so-called Silk Road, where Timbuktu was a major center of learning and dissemination of books. One of the experiences that left a lasting impression on me was a stop at a caravansarie in the middle of the desert in Iran — along the

    Silk Road

    — where a thousand years ago traders and merchants from all the stops along the Silk Road would shelter together and share the tales of their lands and cultures. Virtu as Machiavelli thought about it was not limited to White.

    I am of Italian origin and I don’t get this White thing. Western civilization is like Italian cuisine — the best dishes are flavored from many and diverse sources.

    • Replies: @joe webb
    , @RobinG
  102. geokat62 says:
    @anon

    Russia’s facing an existential crisis? What happens in Syria is an existential crisis for Russia?

    Here’s a comment I posted previously:

    I couldn’t disagree more. As you well know, the neocons have been vilifying Putin, constantly provoking the Russian bear, and even pushing for regime change.

    Why are they pushing for regime change in Moscow? Because Russia is an ally of Syria and Iran, both staunch supporters of Hezbollah, Israel’s arch enemy.

    Here’s how NED President Carl Gershman put it in an opinion piece for the Washington Post:
    “Russians, too, face a choice, and Putin may find himself on the losing end not just in the near abroad but within Russia itself.” http://www.ned.org/about/board/meet-our-president…

    Other neocons threaten to carry Putin out of the Kremlin “feet first.” http://www.interpretermag.com/west-has-means-shor…

    BTW – who was the one handing out cookies in Maiden Square during the Feb 22 coup? Why it was none other than the cookie monster herself, Victoria Nudelman, spouse of Robert Kagan, co-founder of PNAC, the group that pushed hard to invade Iraq!

  103. joe webb says:
    @geokat62

    please forgive me. I figured they were part of the common inheritance of any educated White man.

    I also just re-read the Iliad..so…. Joe Webb

  104. annamaria says:
    @anon

    “Russia’s facing an existential crisis?”
    Yes. Russian Federation does face an existential threat. It takes very little efforts to find the number of the US military bases around the globe (about 1000); a true master of NATO (the US); the NATO’ menacing moves towards the Russian Federation borders (see the US department’ putsch in Ukraine, the US-installed weaponry in Poland, the previous US’ attempts to destabilize the RF/Georgia borders and more). Currently we witness the indecent behavior of the US towards the Russians attempts to stop and destroy ISIS (see the US reaction to the tragedy of Russian civil plane shot over Sinai and the US-encouraged dawning of the Russian jet that fought ISIS). Do not forget the US-ordered economic sanctions (that actually hurt Europe more than RF and gave the Russians a strong signal to become self-sufficient), and do not forget the McCain-H. Hilary hysterics that Putin is new Hitler, notwithstanding the well-publicized pictures of the US department people fraternizing with neo-Nazis. http://www.globalresearch.ca/nuland-testifies-to-house-foreign-affairs-committee-no-neo-nazis-in-ukraine/5381587
    If you are not aware, ISIS is a US’ creation. The monster is supposed first to make enough mess to protect Israel from any functional states in the Middle East (hence the tender relationships between the US, Israel and Gulf monarchies) and, second, to destroy any economic prosperity (such as promised by the New Silk Road) that could compete with the Empire of Federal Reserve.
    Mike Whitney is a professional and well respected expert in the matters he has been writing. If you trust FauxNews more than the alliterative sources of information and analysis, this is your problem.

  105. joe webb says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    “The Uniqueness of Western Civilization” by Ricardo Duchesne, 2012 is the only brief way I can suggest that someone think about what is special about Whites.

    His book takes on all the deconstructers, anti-White, anti-Europe, anti-Eurocentric haters of the West ( particularly one of them, Andre Gunder Frank, whom I knew back 40 to 50 years ago, a Jew of course and communist but a nice guy at the time.)

    [MORE]

    Machiavelli…don’t know enough to say just who he includes. But, the Greco-Roman is unique in history, etc. Carried on into The Church, and into Europe generally, the blending of the three main streams of peoples who biologically produced the White Man….northern hunter-gatherers, near east farmers, and Indo-European warrior tribes…probably the human stuff of the Iliad, are the three main groups that combined their genes to produce …us.

    Kevin MacDonald who has written the best books on the Jews, (Culture of Critique being the most important for our times) is now working on the Origins of the White Race. He is using the latest DNA discoveries, etc.

    In a word or two, the Faustian spirit of restless driving-on is the virtu that Whites possess…some of us anyway. Which is why we have the greatest record of achievement generally, and liberty, which nobody else has achieved. (Never mind IQ for the moment.)

    Individualism is the psychological factor that counts the most. The Chinese who may even have a couple of points of IQ on us, will never be individualistic. (recall the rice culture vs. wheat culture discussed in an article in Unz a few months ago) This is also true of the Jews, who may appear to have some of it, but they are merely big mouthed tribalists who stick close to their herd ( with exceptions of course, that prove the rule).

    The various psychological factors from the above three groups who became the White race are not present in other races today. Particularly, the aristocratic but with careers open to talent, of the Aristocratic warrior societies, combined with northern egalitarian hunter-gatherers, are probably the most important.

    Whites generally are somewhat egalitarian, but with the “brains” to recognize talent and leadership and not resent it. Our pathological altruism comes from the northern hunter-gatherers
    by the way, and tends to account for guys like the Swedes (I am largely Swedish and explains partly my earlier sojourn on the Left) and northern Europeans who have trouble recognizing The Enemy.

    The aristocratic warriors pursued prestige and fame….etc. Individualism in spades. The near-east farmers I guess contributed diligence and hard-work.

    I have been crediting Marx for his Oriental Despotism term. Duchesne, p. 117 says the Enlightenment folks like,”Leibniz, Montesquieu, Voltaire, Hume, and Smith” remarked the “despotic” character of the East and compared it to Europe’s “Genius for Liberty.”
    ——–

    I am curious about the putative fleet of 100s of ships that the Ming dynasty sent out into the area we call Indo China, India, and even the east coast of Africa around 1450.
    One claim I saw on wiki is that one ship at least was supposed to be 400 feet long and 150 feet wide. This I doubt, in-part on merely technical grounds…150 wide is ridiculous. That is a barge and not a seaworthy vessel. Also, the limits of wood ships that big…. and then that there were about 30,000 sailors and dozens of support ships. Hard to believe and the historical evidence is very scant, but it makes a great story for the project to deny the White Man his ascendency.

    Duchesne does not mention this affair in an otherwise detailed account of China’s nonetheless impressive record.

    There will never be virtu (civics lessons of rule of law and personal restraint with regard to greed and sex, and so on) in the rest of the world. Whatever aping of White ways, as in India, is but a shadow of White Fairness and virtu.

    Of course, the issue for us is how much virtu is left after the consumerism and global markets and liberal cowering before inferiors, in large part because there is money in it.

    Joe Webb

  106. bondo says:

    in case no one has yet said this (only scanned thru commets):

    destroying syria to create greater shitty one.

  107. RobinG says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    You wrote, “Italy traded extensively with India, the Chinese and others along the so-called Silk Road, where Timbuktu was a major center of learning and dissemination of books. ”

    OOPS!!!!
    Timbuktu is in Mali, in Africa.
    This part is true: “Timbuktu was a major center of learning and dissemination of books.”
    Double OOPS, this center of learning was Black. Sorry, Joe.

    • Replies: @joe webb
    , @SolontoCroesus
  108. joe webb says:
    @RobinG

    these little sarcasms are about all you can do I guess, too much sojourning at Timbuktu.

    But seriously now Robin. Enlighten all of us on just what that Center of Learning was.. Sounds like another Story, as in the only center of learning in the Dark continent. Also , the famous Alexandria Library, without looking it up, I would guess that since Alexandria was Greek,…the Ptolemies as I recall, it was not Arab but Greek.

    However, as I occasionally remark, in any group of low IQ average people, there are always some bright folks at the right tail of the bell curve. So, cherry picking does not cut it in rational discussion. When you take a country or a race, you have to take the whole thing, either into consideration in general or when you let them into your homeland. So, of course there are some smart people around in societies where most are dummies. That is how Incas left big rocks behind, Aztecs, not only tens of thousands of skulls, somewhat like the Kymer Rouge, but pyramids and so thru history, or the great ruins of India and Cambodia. A few relatively smart engineers and architects do not a western civilization type…with liberty and invention, etc…make.

    The Chinese are a great example of smart people doing some remarkable things. However, the Chinese are still barbaric, and the North Koreans and probably the S. Koreans as well. The Japanese I dunno but someone I know who knows them very well and speaks Japanese, says they are not really any better than the Chinese. It is Oriental Despotism, lock , stock and barrel.

    Where I live the chinese are everywhere and even the liberals wish they were elsewhere as in It would be so much nicer if your were not here. A barbarian with brains is the most dangerous.

    Of course, the cherry-picking that we do do now is very bad for the country left behind as we brain-drain it of whatever smarter people they have.

    Gosh and Gee, do any of you juvenile delinquents actually have an argument?

    Please edify all of us on the Timbuktu scholars and books and contributions to knowledge.

    Joe Webb

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  109. @RobinG

    Robin, Yes indeed Timbuktu is in Africa and it’s peopled by, wait for it, Africans.

    It was part of the so-called Silk Road trading network.

    That was the point attempted to be made: Romans traded and had cultural exchange with diverse cultures, even Blacks, Chinese and Germans.

  110. @joe webb

    Timbuktu was a center of learning and culture before your lot knew how to count, Joe.

    • Replies: @joe webb
  111. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @joe webb

    There absolutely is zero gain for the US treasury. These wars have cost us 2-3 trillion dollars.

    If you don’t know how the privately owned Fed makes money off of us going into enormous war debt then you clearly have absolutely no idea what is going on. I don’t think that it is possible that you really believe the nonsense that you write in which you try to minimize the role of war profiteers. There is no way that you are fool enough to not know how various firms and the whole MIC profit from war. And your continued ignorance that you continue to show by your failure to acknowledge ALL the players and only focusing on the misdirection of religion by not making the distinction between Zionism and Judaism, shows that you your not a person whose views should be taken seriously.

    Now if you mean that arms contractors are making some money, of course they are…trivial amounts.

    What capitalists, what firms, etc?

    The oil industry absolutely did not want the Iraq wars, and I guess they don’t want these wars either.

    We do not go to war for these guys. War is too expensive and dangerous .

    Your above quotes show that you are either one of the most brainwashed fools that I’ve ever encountered, or you are a person that is trying to do some brainwashing, or you are some troll that gets his kicks or profits in some way by stirring people up. So which one is it Joe?

    • Agree: Kiza
  112. joe webb says:

    The Fed is permitted by law to make 6% profit. fact. What is MIC?

    zionism and judaism are essentially the same. you can start yelling again. but I recommend you read Israel Shahak on this, Jewish History; Jewish Religion. I particularly savor his term, I think it was osmosis (he was a scientist), that the religion osmosed into the politics, and that zionists are just as “religiously” obsessed as the Orthodox.

    Actually, it is all genetic, the oriental despotism of all semites. They cannot think straight, which further speaks to your probable jew-troll or just communist character, or juvenile leftie sophomoronic Follow the Money.

    The First Thing in homo sapiens life is that we are a social animal, not a money animal. We Follow our Tribe, unless one is a White, in which case one is endangered by his altruism to listen to Others, meaning other tribes that want to eat you

    Speaking of foolishness, your insistence that Zio and “Religion” are two different things betrays you. You are a jew . Euphrates to the Nile. Judaism is a Darwinian group evolutionary strategy of racial survival and conquest. Jehovah is a genocidal warrior god…kill them all, even their little ones…etc.

    I looked up Timbuktu. Not much there, just Arab trading and a reading room, probably dedicated to jewish propaganda.

    You repeat the same leftist mantra of Oil war that has been the centerpiece of communist propaganda for a couple of decades now. Keep the goyem running’ around barking about oil war.

    You are probably a jew and a commie.

    Joe Webb

    • Replies: @geokat62
    , @Junior
  113. joe webb says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Solon…have you been drinking ? T. was about one thousand years ago more or less, got your calendar next to you?

    One of the signal characters of Whiteness is that we are interested in lots of things, including how Others live. Most Others could care less, except for conquest or hustle.

    The romance of White exploration starting around 1500 brought many strange tales home.

    One of the latest was the interest in the Orient, which fueled architectural and art type change, like Japanese architecture which fed into Arts and Crafts, and rip off guys like Frank Lloyd Wright.

    [MORE]

    Part of that in Orientalism, brought fascination with things arab, and Timbuktu was a fabled Center of Learning…what crap. Separate the myth from fact please.

    There is no race like the White Race and never will be, and when we are gone the world will slip back into savagery and the swamp.

    I wonder what the average age of folks is here on this list. If folks went to college after, say, 1975, then the attacks on Eurocentrism, and then the Great Books of Western Civ were beginning to be carted out to the back room while Afrocentrism, World History, Studies of this and that (queer to be sure)
    became the standard fare of Humanites…humanity….Gobineau: I have met Frenchmen, Germans, etc but I have never met a Humanity. etc.

    The best cure for one who has been to college over the last 30 plus years is to go live with the Great Unwashed and smell the stink, and listen to the irrationality, and, ahem, see the slavery…O lord, jewyorktimes had an article last year on Mali and the French military chasing terrorists….the article mentioned that Mali has about 200,000 slaves, apparently most owned by arabs and of course the slaves were , you know…very dark.

    This puts me in mind of all those innocents at college who discover that Israel is Unfair to Arabs or Palestinians. Boycott! they scream. And all of this is Good for its puts people on the path.

    How could Jews do this, steal Pal. land, etc.? First lesson in biology. The natural path of the innocent but altruistic white boys and girls, including myself, was this type. Then you discover the Jews, then you discover race, and nationalism, and religion as the fundamentals. All men are created equal is not a fundamental but it is a lesson in propaganda , wishful thinking, and the possibilities of Law, which of course is a good thing, but cannot change mother nature.

    So, when I hear someone yelping about the difference between Judaism and Zionism, I know that I am dealing with either a very young/innocent person, or a viper of the jewish variety, or just another dummy sophomore who will never graduate to Matriculation and Maturity.

    Dr. Webb ( my grandfather was a MD and everything is genetic ) prescribes a few weeks of simply going to American Renaissance and The Occidental Observer and get some mind catnip working on perhaps befuddled neurons. It is not just the Jews. It is our biology, and the biology of Others as well. Also, the Minnesota Twin Study plus many more similar studies than flatten the old nurture argument. It is all genetic, with room for lots of error since we are a social animal and subject to propaganda and the need to fit in. However the older we get, the more our True Selves emerge and we slowly discard the detritus, in this case liberal Ideas, like a snake shedding its skin.

    Joe Webb

  114. geokat62 says:
    @joe webb

    You repeat the same leftist mantra of Oil war that has been the centerpiece of communist propaganda for a couple of decades now. Keep the goyem running’ around barking about oil war.

    I agree. This is the biggest canard used to deflect, distract, and deligitimize the true driver underpinning events unfolding in MENA – i.e., neocon/Israel first strategy to remake ME by regime changing those countries deemed hostile to the Zionist project, in an effort to enhance the security of the villa in the jungle.

    • Replies: @Junior
    , @joe webb
  115. geokat62 says:
    @geokat62

    Further to our discussion on the relative merits of indirect vs direct democracy, I’ve been meaning to respond to this previous comment:

    The pity is that the west has never constructed a Cyrus-like universalist humanist mode of empire

    While your admiration of the Persian Empire is apparent, the following excerpt from Copleston’s History of Philosophy, Vol. 1 brings into sharp relief the shortcomings of a subject living under the Persian Empire versus a citizen living within a direct democracy:

    When man reflects on human life, on man’s good and on the good life, as Plato did, he clearly cannot pass by man’s social relations. Man is born into a society, not only into that of the family but also into a wider association, and it is in that society that he must live the good life and attain his end. He cannot be treated as though he were an isolated unit, living to himself alone. Yet, although every thinker who concerns himself with the humanistic viewpoint, man’s place and destiny, must form for himself some theory of man’s social relations, it may be well that no theory of the State will result, unless a somewhat advanced political consciousness has gone before.

    If man feels himself as a passive member of some great autocratic Power—the Persian Empire, for example—in which he is not called upon to play any active role, save as taxpayer or soldier, his political consciousness is scarcely aroused: one autocrat or another, one empire or another, Persian or Babylonian, it may make very little difference to him. But when a man belongs to a community in which he is called upon to shoulder his burden of responsibility, in which he has not only duties but also rights and activities, then he will become politically conscious. To the politically unconscious man the State may appear as some thing set over against him, alien if not oppressive, and he will tend to conceive his way of salvation as lying through individual activity and perhaps through co-operation in other societies than that of the reigning bureaucracy: he will not be immediately stimulated to form a theory of the State. To the politically conscious man, on the other hand, the State appears as a body in which he has a part, as an extension in some sort of himself, and so will be stimulated—the reflective thinker, that is to say—to form a theory of the State. The Greeks had this political consciousness in a very advanced degree: the good life was to them inconceivable apart from the polis…

    The political theory of Plato and Aristotle has indeed formed the foundation for subsequent fruitful speculation on the nature and characteristics of the State. Many details of Plato’s Republic may be unrealisable in practice, and also undesirable even if practicable, but his great thought is that of the State as rendering possible and as promoting the good life of man, as contributing to man’s temporal end and welfare. This Greek view of the State, which is also that of St. Thomas, is superior to the view which may be known as the liberal idea of the State, i.e. the view of the State as an institution, the function of which is to private property and, in general, to exhibit a negative attitude towards the members of the State. In practice, of course, even the upholders of this view of the State have had to abandon a completely laissez-faire policy, but their theory remains barren, empty and negative in comparison with that of the Greeks.

    Hopefully, this quote helps explain why I’m a big proponent of direct democracy.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  116. geokat62 says:
    @geokat62

    Just to be clear, my previous comment was meant to be addressed to S2C.

  117. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @joe webb

    The Fed is permitted by law to make 6% profit. fact. What is MIC?

    The MIC is the Military Industrial Complex that Eisenhower spoke of in his farewell address, but it is no longer the simple organism that he described and has grown through time into an all encompassing Deep State that controls our foreign policy.

    http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/02/dollar-deep-state.html

    zionism and judaism are essentially the same. you can start yelling again. but I recommend you read Israel Shahak on this

    Your loose use of essentially the same, shows that you are not a person that is serious about trying to correctly identify a problem. You resort to generalities so that you can THINK that you have everything figured out in your naive little worldview. If Israel Shahak is propagating the same false-narrative that Zionists do in which they try to fool people into thinking that Zionism is the same as Judaism, then he is a part of the problem that is POSING as a solution to the problem. Just like you. Both of you are either Misguided People or Misguiding People.

    The First Thing in homo sapiens life is that we are a social animal, not a money animal. We Follow our Tribe, unless one is a White, in which case one is endangered by his altruism to listen to Others, meaning other tribes that want to eat you

    Yes, Joe! Of course! The ONLY reason that such an altruistic tribe that engaged in slave trade and genocide of an indigenous population like the Native Americans, would ONLY do so because the were fooled into it. Greed doesn’t exist and the church of the All-Mighty-Dollar that follows the Profit Prophet don’t exist either.

    You are absolutely delusional. It’s quite apparent that you are one of those HBD losers that try to shape your worldview around some fake belief that systemic violence and wars for empire don’t count as aggression. You can think whatever nonsense you want in an effort to make yourself feel better about yourself, but don’t go spouting your bullshit all around claiming it to be true and expect not to be called out on said bullshit.

    You repeat the same leftist mantra of Oil war that has been the centerpiece of communist propaganda for a couple of decades now. Keep the goyem running’ around barking about oil war.

    So tell me ,oh wise one, how is it that the Zionists control all the people who aren’t Zionists and our foreign policy decisions? Is it by using their sorcery and Kabbalistic soul-possesion? Or does appealing to people’s greed sound like a more reasonable reason for the collaboration? It’s called vested interests converging, Joe. The Zionists interest for control of a region, and the Deep States interests of control over the natural resources and control over the money to be made from waging war in that region, converging together.

    You are probably a jew and a commie.

    No, I am not Jewish and although I do believe that we need at least SOME socialism in our system for it to operate correctly, I am far from a “commie”. With all your talk of how it would be good for Red China to become the world reserve currency and how much “smarter” the Red Chinese people are, if your charges aren’t a case of the pot calling the kettle a commie, then I don’t know what is.

    • Replies: @joe webb
  118. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @geokat62

    Although it may SEEM on the surface that Joe is making a rational argument, he is not. What he is essentially saying is that Globalists and the Deep State don’t exist and that their motives of financial gain for power don’t control our foreign policy. He uses half truths, like the fact that of COURSE it is not in the overall US national financial interest to go to war, but doesn’t say whose financial interests the wars ARE for. He ignores the collaborators with the Zionists whose motivations are greed.

    He is identifying the false-narrative tool that they use, but he is not correctly identifying the wielder of said tool. Of COURSE his argument is correct about the fact that oil is not a reason to go to war, but Joe is saying that the Deep State doesn’t exist and that everyone that is saying that oil is a reason to go to war are Judaism motivated. THAT is why he is a naive fool. Now whether his misidentifying the difference between Zionism and Judaism along with ignoring the existence of the Deep State is because of ignorance or on purpose for misdirection may be up for debate, but there is no question that he is doing it.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  119. geokat62 says:
    @Junior

    Although it may SEEM on the surface that Joe is making a rational argument, he is not.

    Jr., as you may have noticed, I agreed with a very specific passage of Joe’s lengthy comment, and not his entire comment.

    Of COURSE his argument is correct about the fact that oil is not a reason to go to war.

    I think if you changed just a few words in this statement, I would agree with you:

    Of COURSE his argument is correct about the fact that oil was not the reason we went to war.

  120. joe webb says:
    @Junior

    well, the argument about zionism vs. orthodoxy, jewish variety, is not going to be solved by a few paragraphs. I would be willing to trade books that you have read, or have not read. For starters, Benny Morris wrote probably the best history of Israel a few years ago and he is a zionist who told the truth (conquest not ‘establishment” which is ht usual lie ). Then I have read probably 20 books on Israel, and got rid of most of them in culling, but there is no argument that I have not heard. or thought about.

    Yeah you can go on in an abstract way, religion vs. politics, secular vs. religious, etc. There is nothing secular about zionism ultimately because it is based on religious belief and fanaticism that goes way beyond, say a White Nationalist position that includes the right of all peoples to their own ethnic state. What WNs say is that nobody today has the right to steal other people’s lands.

    This is not a high ethical position, it is a pragmatic position in an age of nukes, etc. So, the position that you argue anyway has been mooted by history. When zionism is dead, so will the Jews be dead. In part, I am a zionist, that is, the jews are entitled to a state of their own, only it must be bought and paid for, not stolen. etc.

    Your second comment is studded with emotionalism and insults, but I humor you anyway. Money is always part of struggle. Maybe you are too young to notice it. from

    marriage to statecraft, money has a role. You do go on…but imperialism and aggressive war are part of our nature. Today, we can control it pretty well if we stop hysterics like yours.

    You go on about slavery. Every race has enslaved others. Whites abolished slavery, the first people to do so. Started in England about 1807 with Christians leading the charge. Every race except Whites today tolerate slavery, starting with your precious blacks. Take the Black settlement of Liberia. our ex-slaves proceeded to, if not enslave, then exploit the native blacks big time.

    You go on about my” bullshitting ” and the like. All I said is that human nature includes a lot of aggression, and Whites are no worse than others, probably a lot better, but we did and do have the advantage in weapons and brainpower generally.

    Whites are the only race to have missionized the world, trying to Save folks souls, save the whales, save the planet, save… the current rage…save the kidnapped sex slaves…all done by darker skinned folks. Whites , compared say to chinese if they had taken over our stone-age injuns who were also given to slavery, torture, constant warfare, and don’t forget magical thinking…the Ghost Dance…they were Stone Age and were going to be taken over by somebody. They were lucky it was us cuz the chinese would have killed them all. Seems to me we built schools for them and miss ionized them too.

    In short , your analysis is so sloppy that you deserve to be flunked. You been reading too much crazy anti-White stuff written by jews and commies and de-colonializers. All those decolonized lands have reverted to savagery, except in the far east. Black is beautiful.

    Your last bit is how everything is follow the money. you are obsessed with that one….must be kind of greedy yourself, methinks the lady doth protest too much department.
    Joe Webb

  121. joe webb says:
    @geokat62

    thanks geokat. Euphrates to the Nile, neutron bombs R us Chosen folks.

    What most people don’t get, both left and right, is that the Jews got ahold of us thru the Protestant Reformation and the Return to the Old Testament, the kill-them-all -even -their -little -ones genocidal maniac warrior god. The jew/lib propaganda of Judeo-Christian Ethic is a Lie.

    Jesus and Jehovah do not co-exist. It is either-or. Total subversion by the Jews of Protestantism and now Catholicism as well. They tell us to let in the heathen while they refuse them…it is as simple as that, in just one context, and the same jew ju ju obtains in every other context. Christians used to hate the Jews for good reason, and the Church always protected Jews. If the Christians in general had had their way, there would be no jewish problem today.

    Joe Webb

    • Replies: @Junior
  122. joe webb says:

    here is something from todays Times jewish columnist, Roger Cohen. conveniently apropos the discussion of zionism vs. Judaism, he writes:

    “…. Messianic Zionism, of the kind that claims all the land between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River as God-given real estate, supplanted secular Zionism of the kind that believes in a state of laws.”

    Arguably this is a bit less of a claim on territory that runs from The Euphrates to the Nile, the historical vision of early zionists like Jabotinsky and the Stern/Irgun types, but the quotation serves to illustrate what Israel Shahak (Jewish History; Jewish Religion) had to say about the “osmosis” of rabbinic or Talmudic Judaism into the allegedly “secular” zionism.

    Yes, you could claim, as apparently Cohen does, that the original zionism of Herzl, influenced by the then current rage for nationalism generally in Europe was “secular”. Otoh, are for example, the current nationalisms emerging truly secular and not religious?

    Was the original zionism purely secular, especially considered in the context of the Dreyfuss Affair, and the messianic beliefs generally of jews…waiting for Godot, I mean Jehovah to send yet another messiah, a fact of Jewish history going all the way back to the Beginning of The Jews.

    All the false messiahs for the Jews has resulted in a putative secularism is which jews believe They are the collective messiah, which arguably makes them even more dangerous to Everyman, not only Whites.

    Today, Zionism leads the US in a crusade against the Arabs. This of course, is just secular, and not religious..repeat after me…Zionism leads the US…
    ——-
    A pure science of biology and genetics and genetic similarity could be called secular.

    Hoever, when it takes on large political claims…that could be called mythic, then is this still secularism? I doubt it.

    Joe Webb

  123. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @joe webb

    thanks geokat. Euphrates to the Nile, neutron bombs R us Chosen…blah blah blah

    @geokat62

    Yes, I’d like to thank you also, geokat… for encouraging more insane ramblings from Joe like this above one. Well, here’s another nice mess you’ve gotten us into, geo. 🙂

    • Replies: @geokat62
  124. geokat62 says:
    @Junior

    Well, here’s another nice mess you’ve gotten us into, geo.

    As the Beatle song goes: now, Junior, behave yourself.

    • Replies: @Junior
  125. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @geokat62

    🙂

    • Replies: @joe webb
  126. joe webb says:
    @Junior

    so Junior, have you taken out the garbage yet, and made your bed?

    Here is your homework assignment that you must finish before you go to bed. Given your extensive familiarity with Zionism and Religion, you should be able to finish this in less than one half hour. Also, in the interests of clarity and gentlemanliness , and your own self-possession, please refrain from expletives and other manifestations of bile.

    Inasmuch as a liberal and secular jew like Roger Cohen, a jewish twerp in general but for our purposes qualified to remark on the character of zionism, when he uses a term like “messianic” to describe zionism, and the word messianic means having to do with the appearance/return of the magical genie popping out of the matzo ball soup, screaming for goyem blood and threatening again the destruction of Jerusalem or Tel-Aviv, never mind the little gyms….please compare and contrast this putative messianism to what is generally agreed as Secularism. Also, please remark Israel Shahak’s “osmosis” metaphor when comparing the putatively secular character of zionism to Jewish Religion. You can also get extra points if you describe the argument that the OT can be read as a Darwinian text for Jewish strategies of ethnic competition with goyem. You do not of course have to agree with these positions, but you must articulate a reasonable hypothesis, other than that your interlocotor is crazy and a rambler and worse

    Don’t forget to brush your teeth before bed, at least 2 minutes, up, down , and sideways.

    Uncle Joe

    • Replies: @Junior
  127. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @joe webb

    Here is a quote from one of your earlier post:

    In part, I am a zionist, that is, the jews are entitled to a state of their own, only it must be bought and paid for, not stolen. etc.

    Not all Zionist are Jewish and not all Jewish people are Zionists. Your very own words betray you and your argument that Zionism isn’t secular, that is unless you are Jewish yourself. As usual, your arguments are filled with blatant contradictions.

    Even Israel itself is not a Jewish State, unless of course, the Knesset and Bibi are all rabbis that use the Torah as their national constitution and I had not heard about it. They CLAIM it is a Jewish State so that they can use people’s faith to join them in their quest for land and power. Just because some people, like yourself, are fooled by this claim does not make it true. It is a State run by politicians who use religion as an excuse to get power. As usual, Religion being used as a tool by the Elite to control the masses. Nothing more, nothing less. I really don’t care what nonsense arguments they, the Zionists that use religion as a tool, make to try to justify their power grabs because it’s all based on a fake-religious-claim foundation. It’s about power, NOT religion.

    You seek to argue about things that accept a false-foundation as a base for the argument. That’s what you do Joe. You frame your blatantly contradictory arguments around false premises, like Zionism being about religion or that the Deep State doesn’t exist, to try to fool people into looking past the basis for an argument. Your false framing of the argument isn’t going to work on me, Joe. And that is why you fail, Grasshopper.

    Now if you’ll excuse me, I have to get ready for bed and brush my teeth as you suggested. Luckily, due to my restraint from using expletives, I won’t have to use soap as toothpaste to wash out my mouth. And I also have to choose a bedtime storybook to be read to me. I especially like fairy-tales, so maybe some Hans Christian Anderson, or maybe some Brothers Grimm, or maybe the greatest-fairy-tale-ever-told Bible.

    • Replies: @geokat62
    , @joe webb
  128. geokat62 says:
    @Junior

    … or maybe the greatest-fairy-tale-ever-told Bible.

    I agree.

    • Replies: @joe webb
  129. joe webb says:
    @geokat62

    well now you guys including geokat62, you betray your youth by dismissing the religion of our people as a fairy tale. I am agnostic but understand, as you both apparently do not, the mythic dimension (which arguably is genetically based) of religion.

    Try to do away with a relatively sophisticated religion like Christianity , and you will only get crazy religion. This was something GK Chesterton understood very well: “the modern problem is that people who want to live without belief, will believe anything”…something like that. So now we have astrology, blood type, exercise nut cases, health-supplements nuts and berries types, yoga, and a thousand New Age varieties of goofiness. And do not forget Money, more and more money. (This is a corrupted culture. A house with a TV in it is occupied territory and you know who and what the occupiers are.)

    [MORE]

    Plus the craziest Belief: racial equality. What makes it even worse, is that while it originally had a large component of altruism, which only Whites are very good/bad at, it has degenerated into totalitarian conformism based on the necessity of keeping a job and getting ahead…greed hitched to Do-Gooding, a well understood corruption…doing well by doing good.
    These are all examples of ‘believing anything’ per Chesterton.

    Also, the cynicism that follows the rejection of myth, leads to simple-minded reductivism…like Follow The Money. Or that the Jews are just in it for the Money. Jews don’t care about money, they care about Power, and money is only a vehicle. They care about Jews, and that is solid Darwinian truth and pure human nature.

    People are not greedy in the first instance, they are social, and strive to fit in to their group, family, race. People also not only sacrifice themselves for their group/race, they will sacrifice themselves for belief, or religious belief…like liberal belief in racial equality. (yes some liberals truly believe this stuff, and it is not just Getting Ahead)

    Personally, I am an evolutionist and a White Nationalist, recognizing genetic fundamental determination (see identical twin studies ) of who we are. Most people need some kind of Story that goes beyond the simple factuality of science, so they have what is conventionally called religion.

    In that sense, my religion is my people, who are the best of the races. This Best relates to everything emotional and intellectual/scientific, physical, cultural, and you name it….we got it.

    Most important is our rationality, which no other race possesses in the sense of following logic and Reason to its base , whether in science or in human relations (psychology). Next is our Faustian fighting spirit, as the Greeks had it, to be the best but no cheating.

    Every other race is in one way or another, in large deficit of Reason. Chinks, who are as smart as us, go in for gambling, greed, and are incapable of a kind of Western relatively democratic attitude about life. Blacks, forget it, mexicans are gang types, even if not criminal gangs, arabs are also incapable of rationality and building civil society, just like the chinks…it is always a topdown domination with no layers of civil society…pluralism of sorts.

    This is all despotism. Whites are the only people to have invented rule of law, political equality, virtu per Greco-Roman elevation of a noble spirit (Faustian, rigorously honest, self-restraint in sexual matters, and personal dedication to the state and people (race ), civil society, the separation of Public from Private, and a sociability of mutual trust and enjoyment of friends, etc. Also, we are the only race to have put aside tribe and clan in the interests of a larger political association, that makes possible citizenship, to repeat…virtu, and so on.

    So, point is here that if you don’t have a myth or Story, you are what the Greeks called a no-man, living outside of the social and political dynamics of one’s fellows. If you have a story and it is only cynicism and reductionism (to money or sex or toys ) you are violating your social human nature and will suffer for it. (which is not to say that suffering can always be avoided by having a myth of one’s people or Christianity, etc.).

    Cynicism is one of the sicknesses of Whites today, and the Jews/commies/deconstructors/third world racists have been attacking us for a long time with assaults on our history, culture, and race. Time maybe to consider White Accomplishment which includes a fighting and conquering spirit. We are fighters, not dope smokers and TV watchers, at root. This is why Trump is awakening Whites…fighters understand one-another. Today it is us or them. someone has to go, and it will not be us.

    Joe Webb

    • Replies: @geokat62
  130. joe webb says:
    @Junior

    so, maybe to repeat somewhat, money is not the object of political power. The object of political power is to enhance the power of one’s ethnic group, state, or (yes) religion.

    Also, personal power brings substantial emotional benefits: prestige, friends, alliances, women, and anything else you care to consider. The opposite of having power is to give up all of the above, and become a hermit.

    Because that is a zero option for virtually 100 % of actually existing people, one is forced into the game whether one wants it or not. Of course, one can , simply put, be a follower. But if one wants more personal power one needs to play the game hard to become a leader or notable.

    None of this has anything to do with money per se. In our commercial society, money does matter as an aid to developing power, etc.

    A frank and honest appraisal of self, at least with men, includes one’s power drives. In this regard at least we can be more self-aware than the silver back gorilla. Whites have allowed themselves to be turned into pussies by Jews, third worlders, etc. How many Whites are on the Supreme Court, or at least White Protestants, who used to rule this country? How many jews…3. go figure. Why has this happened? in largest part because Whites are greedy individualists, just give me the money and whatever for the rest of it. That is what we have become. No balls, and no virtu.

    White men better start believing in Whiteness pdq, or we are going to be enslaved by the untermenschen, and jews….as we already are in the elites who suck up to their masters.

    I noticed that Trump said that the middle east wars are a huge waste of time/mony and that we need to get out, etc. This is fantastic, it means he does not get into debates with the jews, he dons the kipa for ceremonial purposes, and then tells them goodbye, you are on your own. This is the beginning of the end for the Jew Power. Trump, just making an end-run around them.
    Trump has a Story. Better get one of your own.

    Joe Webb

  131. geokat62 says:
    @joe webb

    So, point is here that if you don’t have a myth or Story, you are what the Greeks called a no-man…

    Joe, just because I said I agreed that the Bible is the greatest fairy tale ever told, doesn’t mean I think our society should no longer have a myth or Story, as you put it.

    What was wrong with the religion prior to the one formally adopted by Emperor Constantine in 313 AD? I think the passage of nearly two millennia has clearly demonstrated the advantages of polytheism over monotheism. Polytheism performs the essential functions you described above without having the negative aspect that requires people to believe that the holy scriptures in the bible are the written words of God. We all have seen the consequences of monotheism and they’re not pretty.

    So while I’d prefer to dispose of all fairy tales and become a society that places it’s faith in science and the scientific method, if, as you pointed out, a less scientific faith system is also required, let it be a polytheistic one.

    • Replies: @joe webb
  132. joe webb says:
    @geokat62

    well, in this regard, polytheism, be that as it may or may not, is totally irrelevant to any practical consideration of our problems as Whites.

    Our fundamental myth will remain Christianity and with any luck a racial consciousness will arise to protect us from the untermenschen. Christian churches in the South never were integrated and Christians did not have any trouble with that because southerners were intimately acquainted with the behavior of blacks. (Today, the North is getting at least a TV lesson in blackness and this is and will lead to more sobriety. The Fourth Estate is very nervous….nobody believes the liberal media except for their groupies).

    Christianity arose, yes to some degree in a multi-racial world, but that compared to what we got now is night and day. Also, Europe thru the long haul after Rome’s fall was near totally White.

    Christianity, while theoretically universalist with regard to race, developed in a white world and therefore Race was not an “existential” problem (that word is unfortunate but the 4th estate loves to use it).

    Arguably the Crusades were partly race based, the Church going after jews was partly race based, and the internal conflicts of whites based on ethnic differences, has been at least recognized by Christianity as real.

    Christianity managed to co-exist with colonization of the third world. It would have been impossible for The Church not to see inferiority, even if the inferiors were to be delivered to God for their own good.

    Today, Christians are getting ready for another war with Islam…because they are at our gates.
    Finally, Christianity does not defeat biology and biology is now asserting itself, Christianity or no.

    War is coming, and hopefully it will just be civil war or sorts, and that Trump will get us out of the Middle East and abandon Israel to its just deserts, including getting nuked by us if they start to go nuts.

    White history is full of war…we are fighters. The liberals are not fighters, they are cowards/bullies.
    Religion will not be a factor one way or the other in the short term…next 10 years or so. Biology will rule.
    Joe Webb

    • Replies: @geokat62
  133. geokat62 says:
    @joe webb

    … polytheism… is totally irrelevant to any practical consideration of our problems as Whites.

    Joe, if we look at the EU experiment, it is clear that trying to create a supranational state out of many “white” states has not been a smashing success. So can we agree that the odds of creating racial states – white, black, yellow, brown, etc, – are very remote. What we are left with is the ~ 193 states we currently have. And of these 193, it is useful to divide them between the Old World states and New World states.

    Do you agree with me that for all practical purposes trying to turn back the hands of time and have the New World states of US, Canada, Australia, NZ revert to WASP-majority countries is unrealistic?

    That battle has been lost. The battle that has still to be decided is the one currently being waged in the Old World, i.e., the European countries.

    Here’s my view on this topic. I don’t come at it from a racial superiority angle, I come at it from a variety-is-the-spice-of-life angle. Here’s what I mean: if the European nations continue down the path they’re currently on – e.g., birth rates so low they cannot sustain their current population levels and they rely on increased immigration to offset this trend – then the demographic makeup of these countries will be such that there will be little chance of retaining their historic identities. My dream is to travel to Berlin one day and be surrounded by Germans, enjoying their language, music, food, architecture, etc.; and travel to Paris the next and be surrounded by Frenchmen, enjoying the same; then travel to London, Madrid, Rome, Athens, etc.

    I don’t want to travel to these cities and feel as though they are all the same filled with immigrants from other countries to such an extent that they have lost their historic character. Simply put, I’d like for them to retain their historic identity. That’s why I am against the EU experiment and why I oppose immigration levels that will impact the historic character of these countries.

    Now before the neocons/Israel firsters jump on me and accuse me of having double standards, I would say the big difference is this. If the Zionists had created their Jewish state in a land that was not already inhabited by a indigenous population that didn’t require oppressing them by imposing a system of apartheid, I would not begrudge them their state in the least. But this is clearly not the case.

    So bottom line, let’s have a rainbow of nations in the Old World, while we still can… and let’s see how the multiculturalism experiment works out in the New World. If it turns out to be a disaster, we’ll just have to sail in the opposite direction to that sailed in 1592.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  134. geokat62 says:
    @geokat62

    Correction: “we’ll just have to sail in the opposite direction to that sailed in 1492.”

  135. joe webb says:

    Geo. So bottom line, let’s have a rainbow of nations in the Old World, while we still can… and let’s see how the multiculturalism experiment works out in the New World. If it turns out to be a disaster, we’ll just have to sail in the opposite direction to that sailed in 1492.”

    I assume by mult-culti rainbow in the Old World, you mean Europe and its whites.

    [MORE]

    As for seeing how multi culti turns out in the new world (multiculti is not culti, it is multi-racial)
    You must be kidding or 20 years old or younger. It has failed miserably, just as it has failed anywhere you might look in the rest of the world. There is no successful multi racial society in history that survived. Those today that are multi-racial are beset by race conflict.

    There is no returning to Europe, or if that could be done, it would be easier to ship out all the colored races out of now White lands. And that would be preferable…We built this country, and Canada and Australia, etc. We give it up to shit people who will Fail absolutely at preserving it.

    Let me give you an example of Chinese “intelligence” which is unchanged. Confucianism included the physical world within the same ‘thinking’ construct as human social life. That is one reason they never developed a real science with things like scientific rigor, a periodic chart of the elements, etc. Chinese and Asians generally believe in magic, so do other occasionally smart folks like Pakis or Indians. Example: 20 years or so ago when the Pakis and Indians were threatening one-another with nukes, a scientist in Pakistan remarked that nuclear war did not matter cuz reincarnation would bring us all back, etc. This story was told by an Indian writer of some credibility, Arandoti Roy, who wrote a couple of pretty good novels but trash from a race point of view.

    They are not like us….and it gets much worse than the chinks who are as smart as us at IQ tests anyway. Look at the Arabs-muzzies average IQ at about 85 like our blacks, like rap, and also are given to cutting up their women’s genitals to keep them from getting too horny and cuckholding them..the guys. Blacks too in Africa. How is this for the spice of life?

    The genuine spice of life comes from intelligence, humor, genuinely novel experiences of a positive nature, learning, good music….don’t get me started on Western music…nothing like it…classical, etc. anywhere else on the planet.

    The spice of life for most low life, is sex, particularly randy sex. Think black, especially African black…it is what they live for…average IQ at 67. A billion of them now and Doctors Without Brains go down to breed more of them. White Altruism gone nuts. The other source of sensation for the masses is boogie-ball, and endless sports and physical life. Well that is ok as long as these white folks have leadership that can recognize genius and important matters when they see them, like race matters.

    Population transfers is what is coming. They can be relatively peaceful, or bloody. Rationality can keep things from getting worse…indeed even that old commie apparatchik Merkel is making the correct noises now that Reality has appeared in the flesh of darkie migrants yearning for Free Money and Free Sex.

    Joe Webb

  136. geokat62 says:

    Population transfers is what is coming.

    This phrase has a very religious ring to it, Joe… kind of like the phrase “the Messiah is coming.” So what’s your prediction, Joe? In your lifetime, your children’s, or grandchildren’s?

    • Replies: @joe webb
  137. joe webb says:
    @geokat62

    first , I don’t know. But, the matter of population transfer will depend on how worked up Europeans get, ditto the US.

    This depends on more terrorism as well as the erosion of the general myth of racial equality. Most Americans would probably admit that blacks and browns are inferior to whites in intelligence. Then the continued degradation of urban life with just having them around is nagging the brains of these liberal fools, as well as further alienating the vast numbers of normal whites.

    We have entered a new phase. This is it. This is the beginning of a new age of White consciousness of our dispossession. Plus, add to that the economic immiseration and possibilities of economic severe recession or worse. Perfect Storm of Race, economics, political polarization and the mutually reinforcing of Europe and US developments. This all points to extreme conflict.

    The only way out of it is separation of the races and the political realignment along the lines of nationalism and anti-globalism. When this happens, the Jewish Power will evaporate.

    Things are coming along nicely. It cannot be reversed , i.e. the Liberal race and globalist ideologies , unless Christ returns or outer space sends us something better than the movies.

    Joe Webb

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