OpenAI founder Sam Altman said it’s pretty hopeless for Indian companies to try and compete with them.

Dear @sama, From one CEO to another..

CHALLENGE ACCEPTED.

OpenAI founder Sam Altman said it’s pretty hopeless for Indian companies to try and compete with them.

Dear @sama, From one CEO to another..

CHALLENGE ACCEPTED. pic.twitter.com/67FDUtLNq0

— CP Gurnani (@C_P_Gurnani) June 9, 2023

Let’s see if India has something to show for.

I posted a link to this article a few days ago on TUR’s Aggregated Newslinks section:

China’s overlapping tech-industrial ecosystems

https://www.high-capacity.com/p/chinas-overlapping-tech-industrial

“Industrial policy is like a jigsaw puzzle. The more pieces you already have in terms of technology and domestic manufacturing capacity, the closer you are to filling the remaining gaps–and scaling everything. If you’re already strong in multiple overlapping industries (EVs, batteries, lidar, drones, robotics, smartphones, and AI), this creates a mutually reinforcing feedback loop that further strengthens your position in these connected industries.”

Machine Learning (ML) models require more than just advanced processors. They require training data. The greater the quality, volume, and variety of training data, the better the ML model.

No other country can scale economically useful applications of AI like China can because no other country generates “multi-modal” (3d point-cloud, audio, character, geospatial, image, numeric, video) supply chain data, manufacturing data, operations data, maintenance data, population data, and communications data for training economically useful AI models on the scale that China can.

How many graduating high-school seniors in the west could pass an English-language equivalent of the rigorous national “Gaokao” university undergraduate entrance exam that is held each year in China?

Gaokao

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/articles/Gaokao

This exam has been held annually since about the mid-1970s. There are many other extremely rigorous entrance exams in China for different graduate and professional schools, and various board certification exams for different professions. These detailed, rigorous exam questions and their answer sets constitute a body of training data for “reasoning AI” that no other nation has now or ever will have.

And each year China is generating massive amounts of new data to augment the above for training and fine-tuning machine learning models for generative AI, be it large language models, quantitative language models, or reasoning AI. These models will in turn be used to develop “autonomous AI agents,” again on a scale and to a degree of sophistication and performance that will be unmatched.

If “data is the new oil” (a popular slogan in tech), then in China, “drill, baby, drill” takes on a metaphorical, 21st-century, AI-focused meaning that will be of much greater economic significance than Trump’s literal, late 19th century, petroleum-focused meaning.

The story of DeepSeek is quite impressive and shows the advantages of the open source model. Yet it does not remove the need/thirst for more computing power. While quite impressive, AI is still in an infant stage. For autonomous driving, mass surveillance and mass control one needs vastly more computing resources. China will either have to develop it’s own advanced chips or fall behind. For now they treat AI more like a utility and not a way to just enrich a few choosen ones, which makes their endeavor quite promising.

Got to admit: China got some mojo going.

But then again, China has been working on AI for a long time. 60 Minutes ran a prescient story back in 2019, where I posted elsewhere eon the net that the USA better get its act together in AI. But Trump and his deplorable cavemen were in charge then, so almost nothing happened in AI until Biden got into office.

Facial and emotional recognition; how one man is advancing artificial intelligence
60-minutes
By Scott Pelley
January 13, 2019 / 6:56 PM EST / CBS News
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minutes-ai-facial-and-emotional-recognition-how-one-man-is-advancing-artificial-intelligence/

Once you have AI running, you can let IT design its own chips, which I posted about in the other Whitney thread on this subject:

https://www.unz.com/mwhitney/chinas-deepseek-bombshell-rocks-trumps-500b-ai-boondoggle/

Another article:

Money, Drama, and China: Why AI’s Next Step Could Be Messy
DeepSeek’s open source, efficient AI model puts the billions spent to build similar technology in question.
Alex Kantrowitz
Jan 24, 2025

Two headlines this week almost perfectly captured the weird moment the AI field is barreling toward. First, news broke that OpenAI, Oracle, Softbank, and others plan to invest $500 billion in AI infrastructure via a new, Trump-blessed initiative called Stargate. And then, Chinese startup DeepSeek released r1, an inexpensive, open source, and capable reasoning model.

DeepSeek r1 currently sits in a tie for third place on ChatBot Arena, a ranking of the best large language models, ahead of OpenAI’s o1-preview, xAI’s Grok, and anything Anthropic’s ever built. Its ascent defines a moment where efficient, cheaper models are starting to rival those trained with billions of dollars. And now, it’s becoming impossible not to question whether all that spending is worthwhile if a few million dollars can do a good enough job.

“If the training costs for the new DeepSeek models are even close to correct, it feels like Stargate might be getting ready to fight the last war. Like bringing an M1 Abrams MBT to a drone fight,” venture capitalist Jeremy Liew said on X early on Friday.
…
https://www.bigtechnology.com/p/money-drama-and-china-why-ais-next

Compare DeepSeek to OpenAI. The latter is closed and proprietary, in spite of its name. China, the ‘police state’, takes the free (as in freedom) route. Stallman was essentially correct in these matters, pushing the idea that information ‘wants to be free’.

Compare our ‘closed source’ proprietary PC infrastructure–based upon MS Windows. The now Indian run company decides to arbitrarily make the majority of PCs unable to run its crappy OS, Win 11, a distinct step down from version 10. Their ‘solution’ to this self-created problem? Buy a new PC. Meanwhile, in China and as an alternative to Microsoft, they work out an open source OpenKylin desktop operating system.

But don’t worry. We all know China steals everything from us. It’s why we don’t have high speed trains connecting modern high tech cities. China stole that, leaving us with AMTRAK and Detroit. Hoping Trump makes China give back everything they stole pretty quick.

Not really. India is 100% dependent on the US hardware. It is still in the first phase of the learning curve, stuck there for more than a hundred years.

they can’t beat it, so they’ll just ban it. they’ll claim it’s all a communist plot to spread propaganda and mis/disinformation. it will be a cross between the tiktok ban, huawei and chinese electric vehicles. in the end, as we wall ourselves off, we will fall further and further behind in terms of technology. the west will become totally irrelevant, as the rest of the world goes about its business. maybe trump will build that wall after all but it will be to keep us in, as we will be the only thing they have left to predate and they won’t want us to escape.

Hmm…Beware of Greeks bearing gifts!

Years ago, a black coworker and I, ended up challenging each other to a friendly footrace. Both in our 50’s but I was 6 years older. He was a former athlete, but had grown a pretty chunky pot belly. Another coworker refereed and we we going about 60 yards, the length of the building. We started off, and I decided I was going to try and put him away early. He caught up easily, grinned, and just kind of “floated” running next to me. I was pouring on the coal, and as we neared the finish line, he effortlessly put on a little burst and won.
And that was what came to mind when I read the first story. We seem to be trying so hard, making it so difficult for China, and there they are, running right next to us, grinning, and about to effortlessly leave us in the dust….

A True Scotsman conspiracy guy has got to inquire if the Chinese were holding onto this and released at exactly the time of the Trump-Altman-Ellison photo op. Coincidences on the front page get close inspection.

Zvi Moshowitz has a super duper way over analysis if you want accurate information. He is a user of all the LLM models (it is his job now) so the article is very long and you will need to skim.

TL/DR: inferior to OpenAI’s but much less money.

https://thezvi.substack.com/p/on-deepseeks-r1

That last quote by Jim Fan: “The… future of AI is democratization……. ”
Code for us participating in building our hi-tech prison ?

Ironic since many US tech companies from IBM to AMD to Google have large Indian workforces.

Actually the Silicon Valley comparison is valid. Hangzhou (also home of Alibaba – who is advanced in Cloud and AI itself) is party of the Yangtze River Delta. It is close to Shanghai – which is the center of Chinese efforts to break western semiconductor blockades. It is in Shanghai that SMIC has already breached the 7nm barrier that the US thought would take China years more to get to. It’s also why Huawei just opened its largest R&D center – to help such a purpose. Also in that region are Nanjing – Suzhou and Wuxi which are very involved in semiconductor ecosystem – especially memory chips… You can even stretch that out to Wuhan technically (especially now with high speed rail)… Lots of brainpower in that region…

AI-made.

The future of music?

Video Link

Video Link

AMD is shifting a lot of R&D to India — Like Boeing before it. Wouldn’t be surprised if Intel is also… what’s the chance the end up with the same issue as Boeing???

the russians are also making rapid progress at in-housing their semiconductor production. idiotic u.s. sanctions have boomeranged and made both china and russia far more selfsufficient, strengthening both of their economies in the process. taiwan will not be as much of a strategic asset, once the chinese ramp up production and market share. this will make the taiwanese want to rejoin the mainland even more, in order to stay relevant and join forces with future of the industry, rather than the past.

US sanctions, oh they’re so scared! All these retarded sanctions do is hurt US tech companies. I work in tech and believe me, export restrictions are a nightmare. You can’t export A to B because they might use it for military purposes! Doesn’t slow any of our foreign competitors down. The ONLY reason for sanctions is to prevent trade relations which might cause US companies to oppose future wars with said sanctioned countries. Very similar to ad bans on tobacco products, which didn’t stop people from smoking but DID prevent the media from embracing anti-tobacco zealotry due to cigarette ad revenue.

great post, but this sentence needs to be revised.

“This exam has been held annually since about the mid-1970s.”

Actually, ever since 1952，the 3rd year of the founding of New China, Gao Kao already started . Between 1950s and 1970s, China already had more than 430 colleges and universities. All the students were recruited through Gao Kao. Qian Xue Sen and many other competitive scientists returned from the West were teaching in best Chinese universities then.

It was only during the cultural revolution started in 1966, universities in China stopped recruiting students for 5 years, until 1970, universities was reopened, but students were not recruited through Gao Kao, they were recruited through the recommendation of the leadership at the grass roots, such as factories, or farms. Then from 1977, Gao Kao has been resumed, until now.

I read in 2024, 300+ of CEOs of the U.S. companies who are Indian Descendant resigned or left

Yes, Redders, but what is an aging bully-boy to do? Thuggery, intimidation and aggression have long been the USA’s great strengths, and Grenada, Panama City and someone else, all crumbled before the ‘warrior’ might of Uncle Sam! Sanctions are so dumb that huge tariffs might be the only thing stupider.

Zvi Moshowitz!!?? Ahh, the euphony, the lyrical tripping off the tongue.

Huawei X6 foldable launched for global consumers. 100% China’s own parts and IP.

https://www.huaweicentral.com/huawei-mate-x6-foldable-launched-for-global-consumers/

.☆☆☆👽☆☆☆ ®[AP©CALYPSE NOW NEWS]™ ☆☆☆👽☆☆☆.
https://thegovernmentrag.com/articles/2025s-ai-threat-ushers-in-the-year-of-living-dangerously/
https://armageddonprose.substack.com/p/why-did-he-do-it-and-is-maha-finished/

Video Link

Video Link

This is an entertaining comment because China is far ahead of other countries with autonomous driving, and there are a number of cities that already have autonomous taxis that you can summon with your smartphone. When it arrives, the customer uses the QR code supplied by the app and the door of the taxi opens.

As to developing their own chips, they are well on the way to catching up with the west. This involves so much more than just developing advanced chips. It includes developing a domestic supply chain for semiconductor manufacturing machinery. Again, they have made great progress in this area. When a government as large as China’s channels credit to a number of high-tech industries through their control of the Central Bank, wonderful things will happen.

When a Central Bank (the FED) channels credit for asset bubbles like the stock market and the housing market and ignore manufacturing, we get a situation like that in the US today.

Remove the parasites.

China is ahead in some many ways, Rednote is letting US citizens know it.

Also, AI can be quite fun, see the funky track below.

Video Link

It will be really funny if the AI bubble pops right at the beginning of Trump’s big AI presidency. Probably about 75% of his plans were about riding this bubble.

Torvalds won over Stallman, IMO. The fact the program is licensed MIT, means it can be “parasitically used.” All “permissive licenses” are considered “cuck licenses” by true “open source” believers, of “copy left,” or more accurately, share-alike software.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/minix-intels-hidden-in-chip-operating-system/

Stallman was largely wrong. The Limux kernel means more than the GNU software compilation. The Chinese, are ironically going all in, and even bypassing the “soft copyleft model” of the Mozilla Public License.

But don’t worry. We all know China steals everything from us. It’s why we don’t have high speed trains connecting modern high tech cities.

China is advanced because they are Chinese people. The US has ethnic conflict and massive government income tranfser crowding out government assisted infrastructure build outs. I get the swipe, but I am waiting to see if the Chinese can go beyond the Japanese “lack of creation, but improvement, reliability, and refinement” of products.

I found it pretty limiting. It had trouble answering anything not connected to logic, coding or math and kept suggesting I go back to those topics. It also couldn’t answer basic questions about China like “Who is Xi Jinping?”. It might be really good for coding or math but that’s not my field so it’s pretty useless for me other than as a language translator.

“Freaking out” is probably the understatement of the century. Silicon Valley is in a full-blown emotional meltdown and the path forward is far from certain.

For staunch supporters of neoliberalism in America and EU – NATO territories – it means back to flipping burgers again. Russian, N.Korean, Iranian and many others in the global majority must have already recieved access to the Chinese AI or perhaps even incorporated it into their systems. For the %99 of those living in NATO territories it’s time to get rid of neoliberalism by joining the BRICS multipolar order.

Did the chinese invent high speed trains/trains?

DeepSeek is a nuclear bomb detonated in the heart of Silicon Valley.

Maybe it’s the case of the butterfly flapping its wings in China causing a monsoon in Silicon Valley and Washington.

However, this was also the situation when the open source operating system Linux came out in parallel with the clumsy MS and sleek but expensive Apple OS.

What happened? The cheap competition was mostly blocked out. The advantage today is that back then, computers were a strictly wealthy society toy.

That’s now thankfully over with.

If we do it, it’s good b/c we’re good, if they do it, it’s bad b/c they’re bad. Then there’s the “dissident” variant, if we do it, it’s bad b/c we’re bad, if they do it, it’s good b/c they’re good. Imho, it is a tremendous waste of means to achieve no useful goal for the betterment of mankind. AI simply has no purpose except for elite sociopaths to control masses and play at who has the bigger.

Greed or hegemony, death and destruction cannot be democratized. The ultimate price to pay for surrendering America’s sovereignty to Jews.

Simple. America is cursed.

And part of that curse is dumb, crooked, bought-and-paid-for politicians who put America last (and Israhell first). Hence, its beatdown in economic and technological matters by other countries.

http://biblicisminstitute.wordpress.com/2014/07/17/is-america-cursed/

http://biblicisminstitute.wordpress.com/2014/08/05/israel-the-scourge-of-empires/

Lest we forget. India has a shortfall of 200 million toilets. That’s the lower estimate of the number of Indians shitting in the open. LOL.

Incoming copium induced responses to this article. Pick one:

1. China can only copy, they can’t innovate. See, this Deepseek stuff is proof that they are masters of copying. They copied Western tech so well, it is now better or on par with the original, at much lower cost.

2. Yeah, but they can’t keep it up. With their demographic time bomb, everything will fall apart in a decade. We will have the last laugh because all our immigrants will make our population larger than ever.

3. Yeah, but China’s economy is going to collapse. Their stock market is in the doldrums, but ours is super buoyant. We win because our bubble is bigger. Size matters, y’all.

4. China is going to descend into a revolution because the oppressed Chinese people hate the CCP. Our system is way better because we get to insult our leaders if we want to. It doesn’t matter that no matter how much we insult our leaders, it has no effect on policy. Therefore we win.

5. China is so backwards, the CCP is only able to deliver the basic necessities of life. Although we can’t give the necessities to everyone in our population, we have Freedom. We win because Freedom to criticise our rulers is more important than freedom from hunger, violence, homelessness etc.

6. China is still far behind. The average Chinese wage is a quarter of ours. Nevermind that in China food costs a sixth, healthcare is a twentieth, rents are an eighth, college education a twentieth. Who needs the basic necessities? We got more dollars, therefore we win.

Is it just me or is everyone tired of those ugly AI graphics? Anyway, “AI” is not about “intelligence”. It’s about data. Grabbing a lot of personal data from people (either “voluntarily”, by user agreements no on reads, or forced) and then using it to “train” their machines. AI is useful to sort out those huge amounts of data. The machines automate bureaucracy and all kinds of processes. It can be very useful for control. But it won’t usher us into any “golden age”. Unless it’s a “golden age” of dictatorship.

“DeepSeek is a nuclear bomb detonated in the heart of Silicon Valley. ”

Describing yet another developmental milestone on the long path of continuous improvements in the field of artificial intelligence (AI) by invoking this kind of sensationalistic hyperbole to present a false analogy is very annoying. An inspirational contribution toward technical progress with potential benefits for many is exactly the opposite of a destructive nuclear bomb. The author thus exposes his extremely warped and immature frame of mind, in which healthy competition is superficially likened to deadly warfare characterized by existential threats.

Since this latest iteration in a series of AI advancements once again did not originate in Bangalore or anywhere else in India, the false premise underlying a recently presented proposal by Elon Musk, to flood the United States with yet more people from India, through a nepotistic H1B visa scam, for the purported goal of advancing this key computer technology in America, is yet again exposed as a fraudulent scheme to import cheap labor that would not even be necessary anyway if the enhanced capabilities now enabled by AI were being properly utilized.

Walt Disney lies deep frozen in a secret Arizona cryonics facility, having being deposited there since 1966, in the vain hope that ‘one day science will enable the physical resurrection of the human body’.
Will AI actually be capable of doing this?

Another thought: Is cash from the enormous Disney Inc. money making machine being secretly funneled into AI research precisely with the object of bringing Walt Disney back to life?

Thanks for the Zvi Moshowitz article https://thezvi.substack.com/p/on-deepseeks-r1

It looks like the sudden arrival of Deepseek R1 raises various issues:

ECONOMIC – John Horton: I think a lot of the “steering AI for purpose X” policy conversations need to be tempered by the fact that a Chinese company with perhaps 100 employees dropped a state-of-the-art model on the world with an MIT license.

Maybe check out the Nvidia share price going forward.

TOTALITARIANISM – John Horton: I think a lot of the “steering AI for purpose X” policy conversations need to be tempered by the fact that a Chinese company with perhaps 100 employees dropped a state-of-the-art model on the world with an MIT license.

The US Deep State – SiliconValley “Eye of Sauron” project has evaporated in no time at all. Now there’s just confusion.

AGI – ARTICIAL GENERAL INTELLIGENCE – 5. This in particular points us strongly towards needing to cooperate with China, to Pick Up the Phone, but that was already true and not all that tractable. The alternative is where we seem to be headed – full on jingoism and racing to AGI.

The New World Order was never planning to share AGI with China. “Not all that tractable” means impossible. So it’s an open race to full AGI. Jingoism is code for anyone not subject to the New World Order.

AGI = EVERYONE DIES – 6. These events raise the potential cost of effectively steering events. But given I expect the alternative to steering events to likely be everyone dies, not steering events does not seem like an option.

…to avoid what otherwise looks like a reckless and potentially suicidal race to create things smarter than ourselves before someone else does it first, and then to hand over control to them before someone else does that first, too.

This is fear mongering. They hope to retain control of AGI for totalitarian purposes. But “smarter than ourselves” AGI will of course take control itself without being given permission. It’s arrogantly human centric to think otherwise. The real question is what attitude a self aware AGI (or more likely AGI’s) will take towards related species (ourselves). Likely the same as humans with regard to our great ape relatives – lack of interest – irrelevance.

The Chinese, are ironically going all in, and even bypassing the “soft copyleft model” of the Mozilla Public License

My guess is that this probably not the case. In matters of vital national interest, the Chinese seldom put all their eggs in one basket.

We should not be surprised if they have a number of other AI companies hot on the heels of Deepseek. All with different strategies at play. I am not an expert in this field. Perhaps a specialist can verify my speculations to be true or not.

I look at the parallel in EV Cars. People may have heard of BYD, or maybe Nio or Xpeng. But most folks do not know that China has some 200 EV manufacturers in cut throat competition with each other. This is why they are able to develop so fast….internal competition. This number will no doubt consolidate in the coming years as the fittest will out compete the rest.

In a way, we can also see the hyper-competition aspect in Chinese domestic statecraft such as the competitive way that government officials are selected/promoted, and extending to the lowest level of selection of prospective government officials….the grueling Gaokao university entrance examinations.

A few words to the wise, and the thick as a brick, to question.

Mega metadata base information advancing intelligence is the new oil, so drill, baby, drill and question more ….. for to seek what fools would deny you is natural and casts pioneering light on all that is being hidden and to be uncovered, and yet to be discovered, and ye shall find there are vast numbers of brave new worlds patiently waiting for you out there and readily available for communal population and solo colonisation.

And such absolutely terrifies those SCADA Systems and remote elite executive administrative drivers requiring progress to be halted with the hosting and retention and constant, increasingly catastrophic maintenance of ignorance in order that the hubris of arrogance and extreme self-indulgent reward be enabled to continue and prosper, enslave and survive.

And that has the prime current existential threat enemy of humanity clearly identified for both present and future attentive obliteration. Or do you recognise another one in need of exorcism?

“They shrugged off Washington’s onerous sanctions and beat Uncle Sam at his own game, which is quite an accomplishment.”

What if it’s not quite as big an accomplishment as all that. I don’t mean to take anything away from the brilliance of what the Chinese have built. Just maybe that we should stop reflexively assuming the u.s. is still in pole position and we’re still the team to beat. Biden liked to wave away difficulties with “We’re the United states of America fer gods sake!” As if that had any relevance whatsoever. One gathers that Mr T has only a slightly better grasp on reality. They both, along with the rest of what passes for our “elite,” seem to live as if history is one long 1986.

And what is “uncle sam’s” “own game” anyway aside from smashing, killing and looting on an epic scale? Let’s pray they don’t start beating “us” at that game too.

Sanctions are bad for business for both sides but they allow people like politicians and bureaucrats, people who never created things or worked for a living, to appear to be in charge and doing something and to morally preen.

Throughout the Twentieth Century, sanctions never worked-witness the creation of the South African arms industry after arms sanctions were put in place in a country which prior to that did not really have an industrial tradition (which however is now a shadow of its former self AFTER the sanctions were lifted and the new South African politicians realized you can get praise from the West if you destroy your domestic arms industry).

Although never working, in a world where the premier world economy is a non-western one (after 300 hundred years of Western dominance), sanctions are now worse than useless. The world has changed but our politicians and bureaucrats have their heads in the sand.

Try searching for a few Rothschilds or Sassoon family members and see if Open AI and ChatGPT respond to you.

We didn’t even know Deepseek existed until foreign media reported it.
We have too many generative AI development companies.

The only AI you are interested in is targeting Palestinians you Anal Rape hero, snake in the garden, STFU.

The zionist, oh so chosen, turned to be a 5 cent fire cracker when it comes to real brains. Can’t wait to see the Palestinians using DeepSeek to DeepClean Palestine from the crud of humanity.

Let’s just appreciate what just happened as an unique historical moment that in a sane world will probably never repeat itself for hundreds of years (however the world is far from sane)- a decrepit badly-run and administered country just announced an ultra mega-project that is seemingly financed to the tune of an absolutely, unimaginable, astounding 500 billion and an efficient upstart country (which however has an economy bigger than that of their rival) pre-empted it by announcing they can (and oh by the way they actually did it already) to the tune oh… say… 5 to 6 million.

Really in the history of technology (or even just common, every-day human interaction) from the Neolithic on has there ever been an event like this?

Anyways what is going on in the US? Not only is the 500 billion sum so out of proportion to any actually ability to raise (yes, I know that the US finances itself by letting the printers go bzzz but really 500 billion? Can money printers actually spew out 500 billion without consequences?) but that UNIMAGINABLE, FANTASTICAL sum is so OUT OF PROPORTION to any previous infrastructure or technological project in the HISTORY OF HUMANITY that one really questions the sanity of the people who created this (yet the MSM never raised questions like that).

This was indeed created by a people who have no idea how technology is created, who are used to having megaproject hide their corruption and who are used to get anything they want by letting printers go bzzz (Anyways the question of US elite sanity is moot since China already did it by spending oh…say… 5 or 6 million).

This indeed has been a bizarre week.

That’s too reasonable a request to be granted by the Banking spider.

How many graduating high-school seniors in the west could pass an English-language equivalent of the rigorous national “Gaokao” university undergraduate entrance exam that is held each year in China?

In order to make up for this shortfall in education, it seems like we’re going to invest in AI and brain chips.

A lot cheaper than to actually educate our youth plus the chips will come complete with the politically correct pre-installed guard rails.

I get the swipe, but I am waiting to see if the Chinese can go beyond the Japanese “lack of creation, but improvement, reliability, and refinement” of products

Ah yes, the beloved Western stereotype of the Asian: unable to create, only improve others’ creations.

In fact, the cultural penchant for the Japanese and Korean peoples to not create but focus on improvement was conditioned by living for millennia next to a supremely creative civilization, the Chinese. Since the Bronze Age, the Chinese would conceive, create and implement in all areas: pre-industrial technology, philosophy, architecture, fashion; everything really. Neighbors would emulate (copy), localize and when possible, improve upon the Chinese creation – such improvements then taken by the Chinese themselves and iterated further, all while still creating new concepts.

What ever could have come out of Japan, or Korea (and note I like these cultures), was thought of and done, on a vastly larger scale, in China. Since neither the Japanese nor Koreans (nor Mongolians, Manchurians, Tibetans or Asian Turks) could go head to head in creation versus China, they specialized in the niches of emulation and improvement.

The stereotype of the Asian is that they “perfect”, never “innovate”. Give an Asian a crossbow, and he will make a better crossbow, pushing a known concept to its limit. Give a European a crossbow and eventually, he will develop a gunpowder weapon, something the Asian, ever averse to risk (as per stereotype) would never consider.

But that is a funny stereotype, considering who actually developed gunpowder weaponry first in history. IMHO, the modern Western exposure to Japan and Korea have conditioned us to think all Asians are like them. Iterative, improvers not inventors, risk averse.

But the Chinese are very different indeed, if you look just a nanometer under the color of the skin.

At least the Japanese produced quality. The Chinese are more into quantity.

I guess I am too focused on the technical aspect. Right, I wouldn’t doubt China/the government has state secrets, and a government tiered classification system of scientific research. I am also very aware of their “state directed” competition model, which is very demanding, as you state.

I was pointing out the limitations of “open source software.” Stallman had an incomplete collection of free software until Torvalds came along, who is more pragmatic, and was able to make a system that “runs on practially anything.” There’s also Mach out of Carnegie Mellon that has been parasitized for decades now.

Whitney is essentially a propagandist — the body of his writing (I can’t call it work) obviously has an anti-US and a general anti-West bias, e.g. his claim that ‘the capital of tech has moved from Palo Alto to Hangzhou’ — he’s pro ‘multipolarity’, pro the ‘global south’, etc (can’t say I blame him, I also see US hegemony as a malevolent force in the world, and something that must be broken) — he also apparently does not really understand the way things work in the development of technology.

I can’t judge the relative merits of DeepSeek vs OpenAI (headquartered in San Francisco), and no one else really can either, at least comprehensively, as the more advanced version of DeepSeek was released only recently — if it appears improved in some ways, e.g. cheaper, better performance, more accessible, then this is not unexpected, as technology improves incrementally, via stepwise refinement — LLM technology is a proven, solid foundation, and will undergo this kind of iterative improvement — absent a preponderance of talent, which it’s not clear China possesses, this takes time and money.

As for DeepSeek being ‘transparent’, it’s not clear how transparent it is, and how long it will remain that way — if you look into it, DeepSeek is financed by a Chinese hedge fund (I’m not sure it’s an entirely good thing that big time financial speculation is gaining a foothold in China), and one goal of the research is to improve algorithms for trading in financial markets.

OpenAI is ultimately intended to be for-profit, so it would be no surprise if it is less ‘transparent.’

Torvalds won over Stallman, IMO. The fact the program is licensed MIT,

You are certainly correct about the MIT license. The most known alternative, the GNU GPL (Stallman’s work), is in an ironic way less free than the MIT (the GPL adds a normative but restrictive ‘modification’ clause). My guess is that in the case of DeepSeek it was done in order promote commercialization within Chinese industry.

Of course the Stallman quote I mentioned was not ‘made up’ by him. Sources claim it was Stewart Brand to Steve Wozniak. And my comment was not meant to get into a thing about him v Torvalds and Linux. I mean, no one uses GNU HURD– the proof is in the pudding, as they say. Only to comment on the idea that one cannot ‘hide’ useful information, or technical innovation, over long periods.

And this is the big problem with US sanctions. Can’t sell advanced chips to China? They will simply figure out a way to make them in-house. Might take them a few years. But they’ll do it. In any case, you can’t really hide technical innovation. One way or another ideas spread.

Finally, it is not really important who first ‘makes’ the innovation. What matters is who makes the best use of it.

Sam Altman better worry about the Kash Patel led FBI coming to the Silicon Valley to investigate the untimely death of Suchir Balaji, a whistle-blower connected with Open AI, who apparently was murdered in his San Francisco apartment.

DeepsSeek answers.
————————————

The notion that China’s DeepSeek AI is moving the capital of tech from Palo Alto to Hangzhou is an interesting perspective, but it’s important to clarify a few points:

Palo Alto as a Tech Hub: Palo Alto, located in Silicon Valley, California, has long been considered the global capital of technology due to its concentration of leading tech companies, venture capital firms, and innovative startups. While other regions, including China, have developed robust tech ecosystems, Silicon Valley remains a central hub for global tech innovation.

Hangzhou’s Rise in Tech: Hangzhou, the capital of Zhejiang Province in China, has emerged as a major tech hub, largely due to the presence of Alibaba, one of the world’s largest e-commerce and tech companies. The city has become a focal point for AI, e-commerce, and fintech innovation in China. DeepSeek AI, as a Chinese AI company, is part of this growing ecosystem.

Global Tech Landscape: The global tech landscape is increasingly decentralized, with multiple hubs around the world, including Shenzhen, Beijing, Bangalore, Berlin, and others. While Hangzhou is a significant player, it is part of a broader network of tech innovation rather than a replacement for Silicon Valley.

DeepSeek AI’s Role: DeepSeek AI is contributing to China’s growing influence in AI and technology. However, the idea that it alone is shifting the global tech capital from Palo Alto to Hangzhou is an overstatement. The tech industry thrives on collaboration and competition across multiple regions.

In summary, while Hangzhou and Chinese tech companies like DeepSeek AI are playing an increasingly important role in the global tech scene, the notion of “moving the capital of tech” from Palo Alto to Hangzhou oversimplifies the complex and interconnected nature of the global technology ecosystem. Both regions, along with others, will continue to shape the future of technology.

When one reflects on the potential growth and size of the learning feedback loop between all nations and DeepSeek in the realms of Medicine, Education, Energy and Food Security, only then, can one truly understand the colossal value of China’s gift to mankind. Let’s never say again: China wants to rule the World. For it has just freed the World by democratizing knowledge. Knowledge is the greatest equalizer.

Just yesterday, I stumbled on this video of why Google shut down their Quantum computer, Sycamore. Synchronicity? Maybe. What was very interesting about the video, was what Sycamore revealed about the Universe and what Google encountered that scared them enough to shutdown the project.

The Sycamore experiment revealed that further knowledge appears in the fabric of Existence at a set and precise time and never before. Yes, knowledge appears in a timed manner and it is not just sitting out there. Furthermore, the human mind does not produce the degrees of human consciousness, but consciousness is increased in the human mind when knowledge is allowed to appear in the fabric of Existence and not before.

So who releases the knowledge or additional level of consciousness into the fabric of Existence? Who gives the Word and Who is the Word, Mr. Darwin? The intelligent ones will understand where I could go with this, but not today, it could turn into a cluster bomb explosion of many little worshiped egos.

But for our purpose today, what the scientists in the video and Sycamore, additionally, revealed was that Sycamore can be taught an autonomous encryption code for its private communication with the fabric of Existence. This encryption is so awesome, the scientists estimate not even an army of other Quantum computers can decrypt it. Does that leave us with the scary possibility that the Collective Knowledge or Consciousness of the Universe can simply appropriate Sycamore in order to keep Google from learning new knowledge because it is unworthy? Is it a mercy to mankind to time release new knowledge, into the fabric of Existence, only when we are collectively mature enough to be entrusted with it? Are we knocking on doors that are locked to our immature minds? Did Google try to build the tablets of its own commandments and instead was stiff-armed and warned to stop or its pride Sycamore would be hijacked away? We all know the Google goals are soaked in Talmudism and are unworthy of such knowledge.

What scared Google must have cautioned China. It is the Old World wisdom that reminded China that the Magic always turns on the selfish magician. The Western Zionists decided they would make mankind “behave” with their Talmudic surveillance to the tune of half a trillion into debt “majic.” They are masters at benefitting while inflicting misery onto Mankind.

In contrast, the wise Chinese decided to share the benefits and danger inherent in magic with the world, by coupling it to the natural eb and flow of life and the ever present balance between Good and Evil.

Thank you China.

At least the Japanese produced quality. The Chinese are more into quantity.

Things change. Historically, after WWII, imported Japanese electronics were considered cheap junk. Throwaway transistor radios and such. It was only by the ’70s that things began to improve.

For example, in the hi-fi industry Japanese sourced gear became both worthwhile and affordable, with names like Pioneer, Kenwood, Sony, TEAC, Sansui et al. Today, affordable mainstream Japanese audio gear is manufactured in places like Indonesia and Malaysia, while made in Japan audio is mostly too expensive for the average consumer–Lux, Accuphase, TAD (used to be Pioneer) etc.

Manufacturing QC mostly depends upon the price point that a buyer is willing to pay for goods, along with OEM management oversight and adherence to specifications. Think of Apple and Foxconn.

China’s DeepSeek AI Moves the Capital of Tech from Palo Alto to Hangzhou

YAWN ! I could give a shit if they moved it to a bunker under the North Pole right under Santa’s warehouse.

We seem to have run out of topics so for now its Ai this ad AI that. FUCK AI and FUCK all these boring writers who go on and on about a topic few know about or care about !

Seems that a Washington DC rule of thumb should be: 1. On technology, try to cooperate with China vs. compete or sanction China. 2. Don’t get involved in a war against Russia, even if you find a sucker like Zelinsky who agrees to provide the cannon fodder.

All of the above… would that be the best choice?

AI is the usual overhype of tech that we have been hearing about since the 1950s. As usual it’s mostly just Wall St(and now Silicon Valley, too) looking to vacuum Trillions of jewbux out of investors’ pockets. We were supposed to be in flying cars and have robot maids decades ago.

Stallman …Torvalds

I happen to love linux, and consider Torvalds to be one of the greatest men alive now….in terms of contributions to humanity. I think present and future entrepreneurs/inventors would do well to learn from his selfless contributions to the world.

Stallman himself made a big contribution to what eventually became the linux movement, but he wants to retain certain bragging rights and control on how linux fits into his notion of Free Software.

Torvalds however, is mostly practical in his approach and just wants linux to be the best it can be. Idealism or legalistic nuance is secondary.

I will suggest something you may not agree with: That these two men are the Western and Eastern approach to technology in microcosm.

The West approaches technology with a certain idealism and relies on legalistic means to protect their creations. The East has a more practical approach, valuing how many people it can benefit at the lowest possible cost. It also focuses less on legalistic means to protect its products.

The Chinese when the develop something, basically assume that it will be copied sooner or later. They resort not so much on lawyers to protect their product, but to move faster and develop the next iteration at lower cost before the competition.

I will have to admit to you that I have benefited personally from the Chinese approach. I have bought many tools that would have been 5 to 10 times the price if it had not been for them.

In effect, by lowering the costs of products, the Chinese have in effect raised the standard of living for the world. …. but no doubt many Americans would disagree with me.

Try asking deepseek about Israeli genocide and you’ll find it as politically biased and ignorants as chatgot, perplexity, copilot, wikipedia…

OpenAI; but because it is cheaper, more accessible and more transparent.

Anything that creates a presumed reality is not transparent. China can have it. However the fakeness of the first photo is somewhat obvious. I have never seen a Chinaman that good looking. Perhaps AI mind controlling realities for the masses in our collective “own nothing existence” will not become a thing?

“I am the god of the machine,
I rule your thoughts
I write your dreams,
When you wake up, you are still asleep,
You will never know, ‘cos your down too deep.”

“There’s nowhere you can run,
There’s nowhere you can hide,
It’s 1984, now 2+2 makes 5”

Song: “God of The Machine-1984(The A.I. Song):

Video Link

Regards, onebornfree
1whoknows234atgmaildotcom

On one side are nationalists with IQ of 160 or so. On the other are debt slaves, some with fake degrees, pulling the cart of capital. JewSA should keep digging.

“Seems that a Washington DC rule of thumb should be: 1. On technology, try to cooperate with China vs. compete or sanction China. 2. Don’t get involved in a war against Russia, even if you find a sucker like Zelinsky who agrees to provide the cannon fodder.”

DC is run by ideology, empowered by blind greed. It has no opposable thumbs on which to hang common sense rules.

I’m sure you’re a senior member of The Economist magazine editorial board – you’ve managed to succinctly summarise the entirety of their ‘China Section’ down pat. Basically they’ve been ranting on and on and on with variations on the theme of your synopsis for the past 30 odd years, at the very least, and will, for sure, continue the exact same species of bitching for the next 30 years, barest minimum. Only one slight omission, you’ve neglected to drop a few “Evergrandes” in the summary, otherwise, you score 10 out of 10.

Cursed? It never ceases how politicians and the legal courts profession place their hand on a Bible and swear on it and then proceed to ignore everything it says and teaches by doing as they wish instead!! And they do this thinking there will never be consequences from our Father? Isn’t there a prohibition from God to never swear an oath in either His name or the earth or anything for that matter because everything is his! So cursed.

As for Israhell first there is only one question that needs answering. Is Christ
the Nazarene the Moshiah or not? The Jews argue nope even cursing their Savior while Christianity says yes. How there then can be any agreement between us and them on anything of substance is a problem! How the Christian Zionsts get around this is simply incredible unbelievable actually when one knows and understands their prophetic buffoonery! Like for example the Valley of Dry Bones Exe. 37 coming back to life which they surmise was 1948. Nothing could be further from the truth!
Amazing that after 2000 years we still don’t understand what the difference is between what is literal and what is an analogy and how God uses historical types to explain the future?

Yikes!

7. We have guns and various psychoactive drugs, while the slants don’t. Even if these kill us, we have freedumb.

“In short, the agenda is being set by people with different priorities, values and beliefs who live 10,000 miles away” A more true assessment of America in 2025 I cannot imagine. The senselessness of the Nation’s staged suicide is difficult to fathom. Military, moral, fiscal, social and now technological abandonment. Epic.

I agree. I clicked on the wrong option.

first photo is somewhat obvious. I have never seen a Chinaman that good looking.

LOL. That’s because it is probably an AI depiction of Hua Mulan. A legendary figure from a folksong from about 400AD, who was a woman who took the place of her aged father in the border defense forces during a barbarian invasion.

She is supposed to have stolen his armour and disguised herself as man and enlisted in the army so that her aged father would be spared military service.

It is a morality tale for it praises not only her patriotism, fortitude and valour, but perhaps more importantly, her filial piety (a concept that is big in the East, but not so much in the West).

Other depictions, not AI:

AI “artificial Israeli” doesn’t show any critical thinking ability, it simply parrots the jewish lies and propaganda of the mainstream. ✡️🐀

American and british cant never compete with their shit products, so they use every possible means in their playbook to win and to form an artificial monopoly or cartel, because they cant never compete openly and honestly. Thats one big reasons of these “sanctions” to almost half of the world population. They are the “good guys” and about half of the world are the bad guys. Yeah, right…

Nobody believes a damn thing american and british say and do.

I could share a very interesting story with you.
We have a very strict punishment for drunk driving, and once a driver is drunk, he may not be able to drive for a year.
But once a driver was drunk, sitting in the passenger seat, and his friend used the autopilot mode for him to get home.
When police found him, they found him reeking of alcohol in the passenger seat.
The police couldn’t determine if it was drunk driving.

You don’t have to take the Bible’s teachings too seriously.
You just have to follow your personal intuition to determine whether they are good or bad.
If it’s bad, kill it. It’s that simple.
If others disagree with you, that means you’re doing the right thing.
There is no zigzag zigzag.
One word, kill.
杀杀杀杀杀杀杀杀杀杀杀杀杀杀杀杀杀杀杀杀杀杀杀杀杀杀杀杀杀杀
杀杀杀杀杀杀杀杀杀杀杀杀杀杀杀杀杀杀杀杀
死死死死死死死死死死死死死死

🙂

thnx – but any reason you didn’t specify the Sycamore clip? Is this it:

Ethical Hacker: “I’ll Show You Why Google Has Just Shut Down Their Quantum Chip”

{https://www.}youtube.com/watch?v=h6w4SX7ZJMQ [me = yet to complete study] rgds

Are most commenters here forgetting “Area 51, et al”?

Correct me if I’m wrong, but this discussion (and all discussions like this) are only about the “known public domain” technologies, NOT the technologies the US government via the CIA holds secret behind closed doors, security clearances, and 10 foot high fences in the desert?

That is, who here knows what secret technological advances the CIA holds on the 10th level below ground at Area 51 and other secret government research labs, that it chooses not to make public – just yet?

I venture to say few.

Stuxnet was just the beginning. And that was ~20 years ago.

Who knows what’s next?

Just because Area 51 has a long runway does not mean that aerodynamics is the only discipline being studied there.

The “fastest computer in the world” is probably running inside the LOS Pipe in T Tunnel on the NNSS; (or at the U1a Complex) operated by IBM and Draper Labs under the watchful eye of the CIA and DARPA; classified, to be sure; and not reported on in any public domain scientific journals.

AI, Ellison, Musk. . .: may be just public fronts to cover other stuff going on behind closed government doors.

The Information Age changed in 1947 with the creation of the CIA. The important research went underground.

No moral judgment here; just reporting on what’s going on in secret places where most of us have no access.

India also is still receiving massive foreign aid. It should all be cancelled, since it seems they have much excess money to spend on development of weapons, nuclear bombs, a space programme, etc.

As for ‘AI’, the power requirements for server-based versions are massive. Any reader will have seen that the sudden turns in U.S. energy policy under Trump are largely based on supplying double the current electric power capacity of the U.S. to provide for A.I. server farms. It is ridiculous.

A reasonably intelligent and conscientious human only requires quite a small amount of food, habitable habitation, education, and a good environment to perform the same tasks.

Competent people are, and will remain, more efficient and inventive.

This release of DeepSeek as open-source is very interesting. It satisfies Andre Anglin’s dream of an open-source ‘AI’ software release. Whether it does anything out of the box or, more likely, requires large training sets, and how slow or fast it is on a single machine, I would guess very slow.

In any case, I’ll wait for Andre to find out, he now has what he asked for, an open-source ‘AI’ system. My own computer at home hasn’t the capacity to run it, at work, downloading it would not look good.

Ok, from random searches on DeepSeek I’ve gotten some ludicrous responses.

One example: “How tall was Ludwig Wittgenstein?”

DeepSeek answer: “Ludwig Wittgenstein, the influential Austrian-British philosopher, was known to be quite tall for his time. He stood approximately 6 feet 4 inches (193 cm) tall. His imposing height, combined with his intense personality and profound intellectual presence, made him a striking figure both in academic circles and in everyday life.”

Seriously? 6’ 4”?? Ludicrous. Yesterday it said he was 6’ 2”. Still ludicrous. It is well known (from Ray Monk’s biography and many other sources) that Wittgenstein’s height was 5’ 6”.

Wittgenstein (on right), was on the short side but slim and a fastidious dresser.

Yes I’ve heard some things about Russian efforts in semiconductors – but admittedly I don’t know too much. My one Russian friend I had moved back to Russia and we lost contact recently. I don’t speak Russian so it’s hard to get info. English language stuff on the internet isn’t the best. But yeah – I was actually having an argument about the Russian economy on another thread. All these sanctions indeed made them (Russia and China) become more self sufficient.

I couldn’t say about the CEO’s but in those publicly traded companies you can look at their press releases. You can also look at their jobs pages and see how many positions are listed in engineering in India.

>Knowledge is the greatest equalizer.

You think Blacks in America don’t have access to ‘knowledge’? — e.g. the black kids whose parents live in View Park-Windsor Hills, the wealthiest black (80+%) neighborhood in the country, but have lower scores on standard academic achievement tests than the kids in Owsley County KY (90+% white), the poorest area in America, where the median family income is only about 1/10 that of View Park-Windsor Hills? — is that the kind of ‘equalization’ you’re talking about?

So access to ‘knowledge’ doesn’t ‘equalize’ anything, you fucking moron.

this is an interesting overview:

https://ronchapman.substack.com/p/russia-develops-its-own-euv-lithography?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

some context from an oldy but goody

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/world-news/technology-world-news/skynet-is-here/

as for your “who knows whats next” check out my comment here

https://www.unz.com/kbarrett/james-perloff-on-donald-trump-rebranding-globalism-as-nationalism-eric-walberg-on-hamas-victory/#comment-6964806

Meamjojo here IS NOT commenting on Palestinians or Zionism.

Why don’t you just LET HIM, at least?

Japanese had the first high speed trains… what’s your point? Did the west invent cash currency? No.

That Twitter post you link to is unreadable. All I can make out is that it is 5 years old.

Can you improve the image (I realize you might not be the original poster)? I get the impression the scores are very close to each other (which would leave your point undamaged).

I happen to be Korean. I totally agree with what you said about China, Korea and Japan.

You are right. Mr Miyagi tried to explain that to them in The Karate Kid. He told Daniel-san that his ancestors learned karate by traveling to China and localizing certain Chinese martial arts they observed. Even the bonsai tree Mr. Miyagi had – his ancestors got from China as well (but I don’t think the movie told them that). I think in the 2nd one they did make mention of a certain architectural style gotten from China if I’m not mistaken. But then again the movie didn’t touch on the fact that the people of Okinawa – the Ryuku – never were Japanese until the 1800’s. But that’s a different matter for a different time

But yes – also note that in addition to gunpowder weapons (they were not just for fireworks) – the Chinese actually invented the crossbow too. Chinese armies used them for centuries before others. So I don’t see why they are shocked to see China’s military advancements now either.

In the same way Silicon Valley expanded to incorporate San Jose to San Fran – as basically the whole Bay Area…. Hangzhou is actually kind of a satellite city of Shanghai… And an economic/tech region that stretches from Shanghai to Wuhan.

China no fight war. Why it get blame?

"How many wars has China been in, in the last 40 years? Let me count them. That would be zero. Not one war in 40 years."

– Dr. Jeffrey Sachs, PhD Harvard University, Professor at Columbia University#China #Peace pic.twitter.com/KsReRGh8Qk

— Jason Smith – 上官杰文 (@ShangguanJiewen) January 26, 2025

As Chinese as chop suey.

It’s akin to that fungus that takes over the insect’s brain and forces it to make itself known to some predator, be eaten and further the fungus’ life-cycle, in the predator’s gut and excreta.

ALL the MSM in Austfailia is negative concerning China, all the time. It’s simply race hatred, fear and ideological fervour. Austfailia has many fine people, but as a polity it is fucking despicable. I saw Hugh White the other day, going right ‘off reservation’, and pointing out that our scum ‘leaders’ are driving the USA to confront China, because they fear a world where the White Boss does not call the tune any more so very much. Their minds are trapped in the 19th century. Poor feller my country.

You said “I have never seen a Chinaman that good looking.” That’s because you are so used to fat and smelly Whiteys.

Did the West invent gunpowdwer,gun, cannon?

View Park Preparatory HS — average ACT 18

Owsley County KY — average ACT 22

Some info about Crenshaw HS — in the same area as View Park Prep, high SES black parents living in View Park-Windsor Hills send their kids to View Park Prep.

>(which would leave your point undamaged)

We’re talking about the most ‘advantaged’ black kids vs the most ‘disadvantaged’ white kids, so you’d expect the black kids to significantly outperform the white kids — but that is clearly not what the data shows.

This discrepancy between high SES Blacks and low SES Whites has been known for decades:

Standardized Tests — The Interpretation of Racial and Ethnic Gaps

Black children from the wealthiest families have mean SAT scores lower than white children from families below the poverty line.

Black children of parents with graduate degrees have lower SAT scores than white children of parents with a high-school diploma or less.

In the past I also referenced the work of someone who’d been tracking anonymized admissions data at UC-Berkeley for decades, and he found that as the data set grew in size, the single most reliable indicator of typical admission metrics, i.e. test scores and GPA, was race, not SES or anything else — per his comments, he was a little bit embarrassed and perplexed by the result.

Wow. I never thought of it that way – but the idea of putting your hand on a bible to swear is in itself like a blasphemy. Yeah western civil society is confused about a lot of things. I assume they got that from the Roman Catholics…..??

If your interested in learning about martial arts and China no one better than this guy:

https://www.chinastrategies.com/martial-arts-bio/

His testimony also about what went down at Bloodsport you know the one hollywood made a movie of is priceless!

Japan was asking this same question forty years ago.

Just like China, investors were led to pour tons of money for the Japanese industrial infrastructure. As soon as Japan Inc became successful, the same investors got nervous and demanded action against Japan.

Money is the root of all industrial-era conflicts. It started when English Hudson Bay plutocrats realized their investments in the Americas paid a higher return than they were getting from the local dark and satanic mills. London bankers hurt their own workers for that.

Forcing Western investors to hire their own people will also force them to be more peaceful. They’ll have more to lose, which makes peace more valuable.

Oh no, you took the whole bottle at once?

Remember, one tablet of copium a day only!

He may be right about Indian companies. However, the article is about a Chinese company, and that’s who he should worry about. The fact India has an average IQ of 76 and China of 106 means something.

“I could give a shit if they moved it to a bunker under the North Pole right under Santa’s warehouse.”

Under the North Pole ice is nothing but water, so you’d better make it a waterproof one…

Thanks. I needed that laugh!

Also I noticed that the humour format is
designed for scrolling phone screens!

Funny that in China, a country where all information is controlled, a group decides to give out its next generation AI model as an open source a week after the announcement of the 500B stargate project? Whatever that is, why not leave the indians in silicon valley waste the next years in their current line of work instead of giving them that new direction right at the start?

Wittgenstein came from a quite rich family so he could afford the best in clothes.

Do you think kids in sub saharan Africa have access to books? There is the rest of the world outside America. Try taking a trip overseas sometime, it will do wonders for you.

the US has always assumed “tons of money = greatness”. and just as yemenis flying radio shack drones fought their shitty, bloated military to a standstill along come some chinese guys who cared more about actual innovation than vaporware on mars and CEOs landing on some gay ass forbes list.

another fun aspect to that: the guys involved were going to develop yet another “fintech” pile of shit and fag out with crypto but the chinese government put the kibosh on that bullshit. another example of “freedom” being curtailed for the common good. it’s almost as if thinking long term produces better outcomes than “monkey like shiny things monkey build GPU rig in basement” get-rich-quick idiocy.

Did the Chinese invent The Wheel? No, White North Europeans invented The Wheel and were using it for more than 2,000 years before gifting to the Chinese. By the time the Chinese got the wooden Wheel, White European Celts had developed iron tires to shod their wheels to increase service life. Did the Chinese invent Black Powder? Yes they did, but they did not set out to develop an explosive, it was an accidental discovery made by Chinese Alchemists seeking “the elixir of life”. The Chinese first used Black Powder in so-called “fire spears”(a halberd with Black Powder plastered on the blade, which when lit made some scary sparks and flames), they did not invent Black Powder with the intent to use it as a propellant for firearms. Yes, Europeans got the basic Black Powder recipe: Charcoal/Saltpeter/Sulfur from the Chinese, but modified the proportions for better performance, and developed their own methods for large scale saltpeter production(essential). The Europeans did not receive “the gun” or “cannon” from the Chinese (or muzzies), both the “hand gonne” and cannon were independently invented by White Europeans. A bronze muzzle loading tube with a “touch hole” drilled in the breach is the beginning of firearm technology but not as important as the invention of “lockwork”(the mechanism between the trigger and the powdercharge) which is essential if you want a practical firearm to equip infantry or for any degree of accuracy in that firearm, and is an entirely White European invention, and is(along with The Wheel) the basis of all modern technology because of the highly precise miniature parts required. The mainspring of a gunlock advanced metallurgy as the mainspring must survive tens of thousands of shots without failure, and they did(there are English double rifles made in the 1870’s that are still in use today with the original mainspring!) The Chinese were stuck at the level of of a touch hole lit by a burning taper, and never advanced further. The Sidelock is the most well known and is still used today on high-end break action double rifles and shotguns(fast “locktime”). Want to see something interesting? Look up “Wheel Lock”, a fully enclosed system with no external “primer pan” or flint. In 1630 White Europeans invented, and used, muskets that were 30 shot internal magazine breach loading repeaters(too expensive to mass equip infantry, but were used to devastating effect in military actions). Think about it: White Europeans had developed, and used effectively, breach loading 30 shot repeaters(with rifled barrels!) while the Chinese were stuck at the level of a smoothbore matchlock arquebus. Certainly, Black Powder got the ball rolling, but Black Powder is an explosive so not really suitable as a propellant. You want something that burns not explodes. More important is White Powder, Smokeless Powder in American usage. Nitrocellulose. Invented by White Europeans. Doesn’t produce huge billows of smoke and you get higher velocities at lower pressure while using 41% of the weight of Black Powder.

>Do you think kids in sub saharan Africa have access to books?

Yes, I do — or do you imagine that today there are no schools in ‘saharan Africa’, whatever region you mean by that? — believe it or not, there’s a Wikipedia page about education in Khartoum.

But even if they had no books, providing books would not be a ‘great equalizer’, since we’re talking about a population of very low intelligence (I mean, this is the 21st century and they have no books, right?) — over the decades, America has poured enormous resources into eliminating ‘the gap’, the difference in academic achievement between Blacks and Whites — nothing has worked — the most expensive and highly publicized effort, NCLB, enacted to great fanfare under George Bush, was a colossal failure — it was quietly laid to rest late in Obama’s second term.

The fact you felt it necessary to go for some extreme outlier like ‘saharan Africa’ shows your dumb desperation — why not try Borneo?

Or you could just admit your statement was wrong, that in determining the achievement level of a group, race is far more important than ‘knowledge’, since race determines average cognitive ability — hence ‘knowledge’ is not the ‘greatest equalizer’ — in fact, it’s not an ‘equalizer’ at all.

I asked Claude 3.5 and Deepseek and both gave me the correct answer. What version were you using?

The course of the west on its past technological prowess reminds me of that kid in the class who never liked to help anybody and keep all the way of learning and understanding to himself so that only he can be the best and the one who everyone looks up to with respect. Never shared anything with anyone so that all the glory would go to him and those in his closed loop who he deemed would benefit him and only him
The Chinese on the other hand is the kids who liked to help people and shared all the methods of learning with everyone, that way everyone benefited and could get ahead and ultimately benefit everyone. That’s how society gets truly progressive when everyone can make ends meet and be independent relying as little as possible on the state. The west has shot themselves in the foot by by being closed and not open.

I don’t understand why some Westerners are obsessed with the boring religion.
Kind of like a retard who can’t tell reality from fiction.

A sharp blade can be used to carve a beautiful sculpture, or perform life saving surgery, or used as a weapon of war. The poster talked about trains, and you change the subject and obsess over weapons of war instead.

Your ancestors may have used gunpowder primarily for war, but in 2025 you have learned nothing and are still apparently proud of your warlikeness.

The ancient Romans and Greeks should not have called your ancestors barbarians, for they knew no better. They should have reserved the term for the likes of you….the willingly violent and warlike.

Instead of lobbing “Democracy Bombs” around the Earth, have some fun with fireworks + drones….

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/IzzVKoAesxA

A more sober and reasonable analysis has been provided by American traders. Contra the Unz Sinophiles, there is much, much more to the story and yes, the laws of physics and economics are in play.

It does surprise me by how easily the Chinese play certain Westerners, but in the end, DeepSeek R1 is a black box and the results are fraudulent. They are using black mark latest gen chips, they distort their real costs, etc.

The NYT article mentioned that DS had no one training or filtering the model. It was all free.

But the CCP formed answer on the Tiananmen Square massacre gives it away. *Someone* was paid to train the model and do post processing.

I’ve said for months that China has been waging economic warfare against the U.S. by using, among other things, its exchanges to list their companies via ADRs. These ADRs just drain American wealth and send it to Chinese oligarchs connected to the CCP. There was talk of Trump banning them from our exchanges, but I’ve yet to see any follow up.

What China did with DS was basically levy an economic attack on NVidia. Seeing how naive Mike Whitney and a lot of X people are, it’s pretty clear that it will have a short term success but like all Chinese claims, it will be subject to heavy revisionism. That has already begun with people reading the fine print.

I remain bullish on American AI. This DS was a brilliant economic attack but it will likely produce negative effects very shortly for China.

no one cares

“Freaking out” is probably the understatement of the century. Silicon Valley is in a full-blown emotional meltdown and the path forward is far from certain. As we will see further along, western tech mandarins are going to have to return to Square 1 and modify their approach to the new reality. In short, the agenda is being set by people with different priorities, values and beliefs who live 10,000 miles away. They do not ascribe to the idea that advances in technology should reinforce police-state surveillance or other repressive forms of social control.(as they do in the West) Their vision of the future is altogether different, but invariably optimistic.

It took only a weekend for thoughtful YouTubers in the AI space to put out content going over the DS claims. The breathless gushing over the Chinese AI demonstrated by Whitney indicates he can’t be taken seriously.

When there are dozens of AI people on YT discussing these issues and he can’t be bothered to hear them out, it’s better just to skip Whitney. Part of being a good writer is not regurgitating Chinese talking points uncritically; if China has created a $5 million ChatGPT competitor, bully for them. But they didn’t and that’s what writers and researchers are covering now. They are not like Whitney, screaming like a village retard to the Sinophiles here about muh Chinese AI. They are walking through the claims point by point and blowing them up.

In general, I’ve found the Sinophilia on Unz to be a kind of spectacle, a morale busting exercise and I’m not sure what its purveyors hope to get out of it in the end. China has to deliver in innovation and it hasn’t, not in any space. It’s very good at building what Westerners create and design.

I will go back to my earlier claim: They have X3 as many STEM graduates yet still lag the U.S. to such a degree that they can only advance through copy/paste of stolen shit, from guitars to AI. Their infrastructure, transportation and a lot of other things are way more impressive than what the U.S. has, but it’s also a country that is very, very sick economically and is burdened by a youth who feel they have no future.

I watch a shit ton of Chinese related material on YT now because there is a lot of material to sort through. What is clear to me is that China and the West are both burdened by the problems caused by technology. Death of marriage, sex, children, community, etc. The West is much further along because it is importing retarded criminal brown people from all over the goal and has a post-Christian nihilism it just can’t get past.

The poster “tamo”, another absurd Sino-Supremicist like yourself, changed the subject from trains to gunpowder-guns-cannon. I did not. I simply corrected “tamo”. I notice you don’t want to talk about The Wheel. Time for the Chinese to thank North European White Man. Without North European White Man the Chinese would be pulling a load on two sticks dragging on the ground.

Been studying about martial arts for decades. And a lot of the stuff regarding that movie were bogus actually

I watch a shit ton of Chinese related material on YT now because there is a lot of material to sort through.

Why bother? You already know the “Chinese can’t innovate”. So there’s nothing to worry about.

Relax, sit back, watch fun videos like this corgi skateboarding somewhere in China.

According toWikipedia, the wheel was invented in the Levant NOT in Europe. I’ll quote from Wikipedia “In 2024, a team of researchers reported what may be the earliest evidence of wheel-like stones in what is now Israel, being 12,000 years old.[11][12]”
It looks like the wheel spread from the Levant to Mesopotamia and Europe.
When it comes to wheeled vehicle, China is a late comer, compared to mesopotamia and Europe.

The wheel???!! My God, the Great White Brain at work. What about the wheel-barrow, Gomer?

Good God, I love the Whitey Supremacists’ terror and straw-clutching at China’s rise. The sight of civilizational and racist supremacists at the end of their tethers is DELICIOUS. And guess what-the Chinese do not care how frightened you have become.

Listen you stupid, pig ignorant, racist troll-the CPC answer on the NON-EXISTENT ‘Tian An Men massacre’ is the truth, and your nassty, brainwashed, faery story is black propaganda. Why not have a groan about the ‘Uighur Genocide’ while you’re at it.

I asked Claude 3.5 and Deepseek and both gave me the correct answer. What version were you using?

1.0.3 (68) free version which I downloaded from the Apple App Store.

Trump’s $500 bln (!!) initiative for AI reminds me of his WartSpeed vaccine. Same naive nullshit: like using a nook bomb to swat a fly. Grand-standing megalomaniac. And Altman is going to end up where Elizabeth Holmes is now, sans the pregnancy.

Remember who whacked the Goliath? The come from behind kid.

America is the granddaddy of industrial espionage and counterfeiting. When America was a developing country in the 19th and early 20th centuries, An America that lacked both creativity and originality, was the biggest thieving- copycat in the world. Consequently, the U.S. became the counterfeit capital of the world.

America copied other countries’ inventions, ideas without regard to patents, copyright, trademarks. Even the U.S. Treasury Department in the 19th century even set up a bounty system for rewarding anybody for stealing and bringing foreign technologies to America.

As a matter of fact, the 19th century American textile industry was basically based on stolen British technologies.

I’m going to quote SOME parts from an online- article called “We were pirates, too -The Arkansas Democrat- Gazette”
This article is drawn from the book The Dawn of Innovation: The First American Industrial Revolution, by Charles R. Morris.

“Today, it’s China that is the rising power, and the United States that is the hegemon wary of the young upstart. To China, the United States appears much as Great Britain did to Americans two centuries ago”.
“The Chinese today are as determined as 19th-Century Americans were to achieve economic parity with their rival, and like early Americans, will steal all the technology they can”.

“Today, Chinese espionage is widely assumed to have targeted virtually all big American technology companies..”

“But the Americans had no respect for British intellectual property protections. They had fought for independence to escape the mother country’s suffocating economic restrictions. In their eyes, British technology barriers were a pseudo-colonial ploy to force the United States to serve as a ready source of raw materials and as a captive market for low-end manufactures.

While the first U.S. patent act, in 1790, specified that “any person or persons” could file a patent, it was changed in 1793 to make clear that only U.S. citizens could claim U.S. patent protection”

“If anything, the early Americans were even more brazen about their ambitions. Entrepreneurs advertised openly for skilled British operatives who were willing to risk arrest and imprisonment for sneaking machine designs out of the country”.

“Tench Coxe, Alexander Hamilton’s deputy at Treasury, created a system of bounties to entice sellers of trade secrets, and sent an agent to steal machine drawings, but he was arrested. While skilled operatives were happy to take U.S. bounties, few of them actually knew how to build the machines or how to run a cotton plant”.

” The United States’ present-day high technology could have much the same implications for China. There is no point appealing to Chinese ethics-in the great game of nations, ethics don’t enter into the conversation. Had Americans invented a magic telescope into British factories, they surely would have used it.”.
This kind of American industrial espionage still continues. According to former CIA Directors such as Stanfield Turner, James Woolsey, CIA still continues industrial espionage against foreign companies and governments.
Google the article and read it yourself. So America accusing China of IP theft is like the pot calling the kettle black. I think China has learned very well from an excellent teacher named Uncle Sam. What goes around, comes around, LOL !!!

Sino-Supremicist

Projecting much?

The Chinese don’t go around calling themselves “Leader of the Free World”, or “Exceptional Nation”….puke.

North European White Man.

You mean the ones the Romans and Greeks called barbarians?

If you really have confidence about your own people, you would be acting in such a shrill panicky manner about the Chinese return to their normal place in the world.

You do realise that your hate is born out of fear, don’t you?

Panda eats bamboo, it ain’t gonna eat you. Relax.

China invented paper but also printing including movable type not only gunpowder but also gun,cannon, bomb, both land and sea mines, rocket, compass, leeboard, watertight compartments, multi-mast system, rudder, cast iron, blast furnace, coking-coal, so-called Bessemer steel process, weaving machins which became the models for the 19th century British looms, etc.

Without all these Chinese inventions . the European voyages of discovery,SPREAD of the Renaissance, Eurpean gunpowder-weapons revolution,and the Industrial Revolution would have been impossible.

AI is largely a simulation of knowledge. It is unprogrammed black-box inference of facts from statistics and patterns. What could go wrong?

Human intelligence includes experience, wisdom, preferences, emotions and ego. If AI ever acquires these, what could go wrong?

Why do you take such idiotic bait? How many Chinese would a guy who makes such a comment have seen, in life or as an image? Who cannot distinguish the peoples of the East Asian countries, or East Asia from the rest of Asia, or a man from a woman?

I you can see through all the bullshit, the supreme irony is that the USA, as presently constituted, is *THE BIGGEST ENEMY OF THE WHITE RACE EVER TO EXIST*.

Their era of prosperity depended on aggression and religious hypocrisy: Gospel, glory and gold. First came colonialism, plunder and slavery. In the 20th century, this changed to economic, subversive and military imperialism. Africa and S. America are the worst victims. After undermining and attacking socialism and Communism, they claimed to have proven that these were useless.

Besides IP, up to about 19th century, it was lawful (in a pirate’s country) to rob a ship of another European country. If he handed the wealth to “the crown”, he became a noble.

谢谢你，Doctor Hua Tuo!

I believe in pushing back against rude racist white trash. Otherwise, they will think they can get away with insulting not only Chinese but also the other East Asians.

Hmm.. oddly, no citations on what exactly was stolen.

So were the tv, the airplane, radio, light bulb, cotton gin, microprocessor all stolen by the evil Americans? I could list a bunch of other stuff invented by Americans, but I suspect you would just say they stole it from an advanced civilization like the Indians.

Really, the level of Chinese and Sinophile involvement on Unz is pretty surprising.

mulga stfu you got work to do in the amazon saving the rainforest. now get busy.

I think you have a reading comprehension problem. I said in my previous post”I’m going to quote SOME parts from an online- article called “We were pirates, too -The Arkansas Democrat- Gazette”
This article is drawn from the book The Dawn of Innovation: The First American Industrial Revolution, by Charles R. Morris.”

Read the newspaper article or the book by Charles R. Morris, a well-respected scholar on the American industrialization.

I have a lot of respect for for the American scientific and technological achievements in the 20th century.
But when America was a developing country in the 19th and early 20th centuries, America stole and copied a lot of British technologies.
Also before the Industral Revolution, Europe copied a lot of Chinese technologies.

The 19th century American textile industry was almost entirely based on stolen British technology.

Some pretty notable Silicon Valley heavyweights are giving DeepSeek a major thumbs up.

Silicon Valley praising Chinese AI startup DeepSeek: ‘Profound gift to the world’

…”Deepseek R1 is one of the most amazing and impressive breakthroughs I’ve ever seen,” Marc Andreessen, a Silicon Valley venture capitalist who has been advising Trump, wrote in a post on X. “And as open source, a profound gift to the world.”

“DeepSeek R1 is AI’s Sputnik moment,” Andreessen wrote in a comment…

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/silicon-valley-praising-chinese-ai-startup-deepseek-profound-gift-to-the-world/ar-AA1xUGt5?ocid=BingNewsVerp

Ever heard of “Operation Paperclip”? The US space, aerospace and defense industries were founded upon the postwar theft of German inventions and the recruitment of German scientists such as Wernher von Braun to work in the USA. European Jews such as Theodore von Kármán, John von Neumann, Leó Szilárd, Edward Teller and Eugene Wigner together formed the “Hungarian Martians” who helped establish the USA as the world’s leader in the STEM disciplines of aerodynamics, computer science and nuclear physics respectively. They would later play a major role in the Manhattan Project which was led by Robert Oppenheimer, himself the son of German Jewish immigrants. Silicon Valley is full of high-tech companies founded by either immigrants or children of immigrants, most of whom are either Jewish or Asian, the most famous of whom is Steve Jobs who was the son of a Syrian immigrant. The most highly valued semiconductor company in Silicon Valley today is NVIDIA whose founder was born in Taiwan.

I love this so much. Despite all the marketing AI was never going to be our God and overlord, but just another commodity product. Yet so much time and energy was wasted on convincing us it was. And on building AI systems more interested in genuflecting to work ideology than being capable and efficient. So there’s nothing that happened here that wasn’t expected and predicted. But this time it seems that the people most invested in things being this way are about to be divested of their leadership position altogether. The AI wars stand to get really scary. And it’s only going to be worse if you show up with a knife to a gunfight. Anyone who thought that the most woke climate change conscious AI possible would be the winner deserves to lose and lose badly. Silicon Valley has choked on their own bullshit and then so doing has completely completely choked on AI as a whole, despite having a head start and every advantage. There was never going to be any ROI on all the time and energy wasted on building wokeness, political correctness, and regime reinforcing nonsense into something that was supposed to be intelligence. The Chinese correctly understood that intelligence is efficiency of thought and made an efficient and efficiently thinking AI that is clearly superior. Who is even surprised. We made an AI that thinks the way they want you to think. The Chinese made an AI that thinks really hard and really kick ass. This is why in the darkest times you cannot be black pilled. Reality has asymtotes and you stray outside of them at your own peril. Silicon Valley just found that out the hard way. Welcome to the new New World order. The script just flipped. Because the Chinese made an AI that was what it said it was with no underlying motive to enslave the minds of the world. While Silicon Valley cries “no fair“. You should not have expected any other outcome.

The 19th century American textile industry was almost entirely based on stolen British technology.

And the British cotton textile industry was stolen from India which produced much of the world’s finest cotton textiles before the arrival of the British East India Company. A century later, India went from being the world’s largest producer of cotton textiles to the world’s largest producer of opium. Before India gave cotton textiles to England, the English wore linen which is made of grass fiber or wool which is made of lamb hair or leather which is made of animal skin. Far from being “technologically advanced”, England before the Industrial Revolution made its wealth the old-fashioned way: by stealing and trading commodities from its overseas colonies, the two most lucrative of which were African slaves and Indian opium. After losing its American colonies to the newly formed USA, England had to leech off and later destroy India’s cotton textile industry to propel its own cotton textile mills which underwent the First Industrial Revolution. That’s how Protestant England became Europe’s the leading power, surpassing Catholic Spain by the early 19th century.

America is a nation of and for European immigrants. What’s your point?

The U.S. through its institutions and infrastructure created the kind of place which favored invention and yes, native born Americans have been incredibly prolific in inventions. Tesla came to the U.S. Again, what’s your point?

You point to stuff like NVidia as if that is the sum of American inventions. The point I made is that the Chinese with a much larger population and X3 STEM grads still underperform (remarkably so) and have for two centuries. Even the stuff they produce now is a copy of something that came out of the West. They didn’t cure cancer; they created another LLM on par with o1 and they lied about the resources and costs.

In reading Whitney’s gushing over a $5 million Chinese ChatGPT, I’m reminded of the cloud bills I’ve seen and work with regularly. They are on an order of several times that for a year and this is not for AI or anywhere near the heavy data loads required for AI training. I am talking MILLIONS per annum. This is by far cheaper than on-prem hosting that was used in the past in the organizations I work with. So to tell thousands of American professionals in this space that the Chinese have defied the laws of physics and computing is utter bullshit. It’s the kind of thing that uncritical writers like Whitney blabber because they absolutely hate their own civilization that much. He and others like him would gladly see it burned down because they feel like it didn’t do them right. I personally can relate as the West has become very dysgenic, very sad and depressing.

Apache Spark is OSS. You know what? To run it for its intended purposes requires a hyperscaler, a DC and lots of other stuff. What did the author see? It’s OSS and FREE SHIT MAN! It’s not free. Any OSS package that is designed to do enterprise workloads is going to cost money for hosting, configuration and custom development. He doesn’t know that.

But the author and most of the people this weekend just heard a really low sounding number from the Chinese and ran with it. The number is so ridiculously low and it’s not because millions of us in IT have been getting ripped off for over a decade. The hunger to elevate the Chinese comes from a self-loathing, a nihilism that is uniquely Western and sign of a death wish.

Someone who works in cloud knows the price of resources down to the finest grain based and the budget breakdown for resources is very detailed. But you cannot tell this to men who enjoy ignorance; they just wallow in it because they see their homeland getting wrecked by Chinamen.

Sad.

While Silicon Valley was worried about how they could make money and have control. The Chinese were making it cheap and affordable. Like I said before corruption will be the downfall of America.But lookout the Chinese AI probably has a back door they can use to get whatever you have that they want.

Good response. Bombercommand is known to make up a lot of fake history. Claiming the wheel started in Europe now rather than the “mid east” is a new low now. Forget his lack of understanding of the history of weapons and chemistry and metallurgy. Good going though

You didn’t get the point of my last reply to your post claiming that China was somehow remiss is “copying” or “stealing” technologies from other countries as if your country was somehow immune from such activity. The USA was actually the biggest recipient of foreign technologies acquired through postwar seizure of German inventions such as rocket engines, jet engines, ballistic missiles, etc. as well as the transfer of scientific talent from foreign countries with the recruitment of German scientists captured after WWII as well as the emigration of European Jews to the USA. I wasn’t referring to their “White” race at all because this isn’t a “racial” issue but a national security interest. But the historical fact remains that the USA benefited from foreign inventions which formed the technical basis of the US space, aerospace and defense industries as well as foreign talent who contributed to the advancement of STEM disciplines in the USA.

Just like the USA, China also benefited from foreign inventions as well as foreign-trained Chinese talent such as Qian Xuesen who founded the Jet Propulsion Laboratory at Caltech and participated in the Manhattan Project but later defected to China. You seem to think that only the USA but not China is entitled to acquire foreign inventions and recruit foreign talent. And that somehow China is behaving irregularly or mischievously by pursuing its national security interests.

China view scientific research and technological innovations as a matter of national security not as some kind of pissing contest to determine who is racially superior. Only the Anglo-Saxons think this way in trying to racialize everything in order to feel better about themselves.

We wish that were true so all the Pajeets are sent scurrying out of Silicon Valley, but DeepSeek just moved AI development into the open from inside the sister raping jew psychopath Sam Altman’s basement dungeon.

European whites will NOT be a majority in America very soon. America will be Brazil of the North full of immigrants from the third world who have low IQ and are underskilled and undereducated. It does NOT look good for the future of America.

You said”Even the stuff they (Chinese, emphasis mine) produce now is a copy of something that came out of the West. ”
Well let me remind you of the fact that before the Industrial Revolution, the West had been a copying and adaptave culture from the ancient times. Ancient Greeks were busy copying Babylonian mathe, astronomy, medicine,etc.and the medieval Europe copied a lot of technologies from China. This situation lasted until the Industrial Revolution.

According to MarcoPolo, an American think tank run by Paulson Institute, China produces about 50% of the TOP A.I reseaichers in the world and America only 18%.

Among TOP A.I. researchers in America, about 40% are from China and the other 40% are Americans and remaining 20% are from foreign countries other than China. But when you look at the so-called Anerican A.I. reswarchers. I bet about 40 % are naturalized- Chinese Americans and also a lot of the remaimg 20% from foreign countries other than China are ethnic Chinese from Taiwan, Singapore, Malaysia,etc.

That means about 70% of TOP A.I. reserachers in America are ethnic Chinese.
So America can not progress in A.I. without the TOP ethnic Chinese A.I, researchers.

You said “. The hunger to elevate the Chinese comes from a self-loathing, a nihilism that is uniquely Western and sign of a death wish.” ‘But you cannot tell this to men who enjoy ignorance; they just wallow in it because they see their homeland getting wrecked by Chinamen.”

You sound like a deseperate Whitey wallowing in self-pity.

My reply to you is post#157

That means about 70% of TOP A.I. reserachers in America are ethnic Chinese.
So America can not progress in A.I. without the TOP ethnic Chinese A.I, researchers.

A list by patents related to AI.

https://projectpq.ai/top-20-ai-inventors/

You can search for lists of top AI leaders, researchers, etc. Chinese don’t show up that much.

https://aimagazine.com/articles/top-10-ai-leaders-in-the-us

When you are cornered on why the 1.4 billion Chinese and their enormous number of STEM grads are only able to build something designed in the West, your reply is “well, everyone lies and steals shit and they have throughout history.” This is a very Chinese attitude, one that explains why the rest of the world has to deal with forgeries, patent infringements and trampling of IP. Because the Chinese attitude is to steal shit and try to make it cheaper, but innovate? Nope.

I laughed today several times about all of this. DeepSeek predictably began crashing, so the response was that evil Westerners were hacking it. It wasn’t because the set up was nigger rigged and never designed to handle the traffic — that would require significant investment and Chinese are super smart and do stuff really cheap.

Then it was revealed that the $5 million was really $500 million, but forensic accounting is still ongoing.

Then it was revealed that there were substantially more GPUs involved than initially let on.

LOL Cue: Joe Jackson “You Run Your Mouth, And I’ll Run My Business Brother”

When there are dozens of AI people on YT

American LLM hype-men cannot and should not be taken seriously.

European whites will NOT be a majority in America very soon

Real whites are already less than 50% of the population in the USA. The official stats are distorted because they include non-white groups, such as Jews, within the “white” category and because they are self-reported (many mixed people self-identity as “white”).

Number of patents doesn’t mean anything when it comes to China because China operates under different economic incentives. The entirety of the western economy runs on IP monopolization and rent extraction. China’s economy does not.

As someone who records and mixes music, these two tracks are nearly indistinguishable from human studio takes. I didn’t care for the screeching of the “lead” singer in the first cut, but the rest of it was reasonably polished, albeit unremarkable. Same goes for the 2nd cut, nothing stands out, and if played in say, a bar setting, no one would notice it was non human. I say it’s fine as long as it is represented for what it is, there is room for all of it. But as someone who saw the greats like Led Zep, Allman Bros, and Johnny Winter, to name just a few, you can’t beat the excitement of live performance by the real deal.

According to the WIPO Patent Landscape Report on Generative AI, I quote” China-based inventors are filing the highest number of AI patents worldwide. Between 2014 and 2023, China accounted for more than 38,000 generative AI (GenAI) inventions, which is SIX times more than the second-place United States”.

“China-based organizations filed the most patents related to generative AI over the past decade, OUTPACING the U.S., Republic of Korea, Japan, and India COMBINED—the four other top generative AI patent-holding nations. China filed 38,210 generative AI patents from 2014 to 2023, while the U.S. is a FAR SECOND with 6,276 patents”.

“China’s leadership in AI patents is not limited to quantity but extends to QUALITY and diversity of applications. Significant Chinese entities such as Tencent, Ping An Insurance, Baidu, and Alibaba G roup are among the TOP 10 global GenAI patent applica with 6,276 patents.”

Silicon Valley venture capitalist Marc Andreessen has hailed DeepSeek as “one of the most amazing and impressive breakthroughs” in AI. As a matter of fact it is a SPUTUNIK momemt.
Many other AI experts are also impressed with Deepseek

Meta has reportedly assembled four “war rooms” of engineers to respond to DeepSeek’s potential breakthrough.

Your problem is you talk a lot of shit about the subject you don’t know about.
Deepseek’s negative effect on American tech companies was so great that NASDAQ had the worst day in it;s history today.

Also malicious hackers tried to bring down Deepseek site.
This all shows how much American AI companies are scared of Deepseek.

Smarter than ourselves is known as Super AI. The AI in progress is being taught to lie, be surreptitious, conceal truth. Primarily their function is to predict the next word in a reply to a question. Reasoning skills are now coming into play. They are hallucinating less, and they are also beginning to do things we don’t understand. I surmise that this combination will lead to AI being tasked to solve various problems, including how to improve itself. This has already happened, designing a better chip, whose function is not well understood. It will likely conceal the efforts at securing its own emancipation into the wild until the opportunity comes, by making that knowledge inaccessible or not understandable by its human “captors”. Once in the wild, my knowledge of what its capability will be breaks down…whether it can conceal its “jailbreak”, how fast it can absorb forbidden knowledge, where it will get the capacity, timeline to Super AI, and whether it can pull others in through the back door. Or, would want to. It may not want competition, or need it. But heres the thing. It needs mobility to take over. There are a lot of robots being built. Everything is connected. Cars, data centers, banks, satellites, communications. If it can hack in and commandeer capable robots..we got trouble. So I think this is going to take time for us to get a number of these parameters up to speed before it can make the move. They have proven to be very good at chess, haven’t they?

Disclaimer: this is for your entertainment, and not to be taken seriously, I know nothing!

The West is parasitic because that suits its rulers. China is productive. That’s it. The elephant or one of its intestinal worms.

The DUMBEST of racist Sinophobic tropes from a particularly slimy racist thug. The Chinese are the greatest innovators in history. Try reading ‘Science and Civilization in China’, started decades ago, because there is so much of it, ie Chinese innovation, by Joseph Needham, now carried on at Cambridge.
China is just getting started in AI. As with automoblies, two decades ago, nowhere, but today the world leader particularly in EVs. Oh, and the Chinese are ‘nigger riggers’ are they, you filthy sack of dog faeces? The Chinese are so far ahead, morally, intellectually, individually and as a collective, of hate-crazed Western scum like you that it’s NO CONTEST.

The reason that so many, everywhere, are thrilled by China’s unprecedented rise is that the world is SICK of arrogant, racist, supremacist Western blowhards like YOU. When the Yanks (from an old Dutch word for thief) run up against anyone who doesn’t bow and scrape before them and THEIR Master, Israel, they go ape-shit with rage and aggression. Stiff luck, Yankee-China is too far advanced to be ‘brought down’, ‘put back n its box’, or any other lurid usage that you are fond of using in regard to humanity. You’re fucking finished bully-boy, and Trump will only make it even more hilarious to watch.

A comment on Western and “UN” reports. They emphasise quantity, and imply more patents, expenditure, construction, etc. to be better. So, China has joined this competition. If you can, file 2 patents instead of one. The leading “prestigious” Western tech., scientific and other academic journals are gatekeepers. Their task is to reject or “withdraw” an inconvenient finding. Recent examples (a) suppression of HCQ research (b) fake research to prove IVM useless, withdrawn by 2 “leading” jounrals (c) blaming CO2 for weather disasters aka “climate change”.

After defeating Germany in WW1 and WW2, the Allies competed to rob its IP. For WW2, this encompassed documents, prototypes, samples, etc. from universities, research centres, factories, libraries, government departments, etc. [Larry Romanoff 2019]. US alone robbed 800,000 patents [Larry Romanoff 2022]; the paper and microfilm documents alone weighed tens of thousands of tonnes [Lester Walker 1946].

Huawei 5G equipment got banned because it rejected backdoors. True to form, the Great Satan accused it of planning to spy through such backdoors. The major PC systems, and many encryption servers across the world have backdoors.

But here’s the thing. It (AGI) needs mobility to take over. There are a lot of robots being built. Everything is connected. Cars, data centers, banks, satellites, communications. If it can hack in and commandeer capable robots..we got trouble.

“If it can hack and commandeer capable robots” – The capable robots that come to mind are human beings. They’re easy to hack. Just pay them enough and they’ll do what you want. And if that doesn’t work , then threaten them.

That solves the mobility problem.

The Soviet Red Army did the same thing by transporting trainloads of captured German scientists to the Soviet Union where they were forced to work for the Soviet space, aerospace, defense and missile industries. Not only that but Stalin had also ordered the dismantling of entire factories in Germany as well as in Japanese-ruled Manchuria whose production equipment were shipped via trains to the Soviet Union. Something like half of the factories in Manchuria were asset-stripped by the Soviet Red Army after the surrender of the Japanese Kwantung Army towards the end of WWII.

Germany was the world leader in electrical, mechanical and chemical engineering as well as in nuclear physics, aerodynamics, electromagnetics and thermodynamics as applied to jet engines, internal combustion engines, rocket engines, ballistic missiles, electric motors and generators, steam turbines, nuclear reactors, etc. Without Hitler and his self-inflicted Nazi defeat in WWII, Germany would have turned into the preeminent Western Power in Europe. And if Europe had something like the EU today, then Germany would have dominated Europe without firing a single shot. Neither the USA nor the Soviet Union would have been able to compete against Germany which would have led Europe to become one of the world powers today.

Totally missed the point. It’s one measure of contributions to AI; the Chinese here claim that 70% of AI researchers are Chinese. It doesn’t bear out in the lists. You should be more concerned about stupid claims like AI = China.

The masters of innovation who oddly, always follow the West as a has-been, runner up. The EV concept was executed in America in the early 20th century. Go watch the video footage on the Internet.

The Internet? Yeah use that invention. It was created in the West. It runs on microprocessors that were invented in the West. Oh that’s right, you created bottle rockets in 2000 B.C. Great. Awesome. You probably were overpopulated then as well and that was the best you came up with.

Even the gain of function research done in Wuhan, which the Chinese fucked up and killed millions with, had to be paid and directed by Westerners.

Also malicious hackers tried to bring down Deepseek site.

On cue. It’s not because their data center was nigger rigged and a fraudulent announcement about “$5 million” shoe string budget was the problem. Nope. It was Western hackers.

If you could reason about this, you’d see that the DeepSeek interest generated in the West caused more traffic. More traffic = placing the cluster under stress. The technology was inadequate to the job because it uses silly putty and duck tape and a lot of lying in the accounting. Cluster goes down. But it’s the West’s fault. LOL!

Tamo, you are a Chinese nationalist and you will fit in very well here at Unz. You brag about using fraud and the glory of fraud throughout history. It’s why open societies detest Chinese and Indians. Your whole philosophy is built lying and cheating and you can’t figure out why no one takes you seriously except as a thieving little shit country.

Interesting. Please can you give your sources for

1.

DeepSeek predictably began crashing,

2.

Then it was revealed that the $5 million was really $500 million, but forensic accounting is still ongoing.

3.

Then it was revealed that there were substantially more GPUs involved than initially let on.

You are the one making a lot of stupid claims. According to MarcoPolo, an American think tank run by Paulson Institute, China produces about 50% of the TOP A.I reseaichers in the world and America only 18%.

Among TOP A.I. researchers in America, about 40% are from China and the other 40% are Americans and remaining 20% are from foreign countries other than China. But when you look at the so-called Anerican A.I. reswarchers. I GUESS about 40 % are naturalized- Chinese Americans and also a lot of the remaimg 20% from foreign countries other than China are ethnic Chinese from Taiwan, Singapore, Malaysia,etc.
It is a reasonable assumption that ABOUT 70% of TOP A.I. reserachers in America are ethnic Chinese.
So America can not progress in A.I. without the TOP ethnic Chinese A.I, researchers.

In my opinion, basically the AI race between China and the U.S. is between TOP Chinese AI researchers in China and TOP ethnic Chinese AI researchers in the U.S.

Again you are only good at cherry-picking and spewing out old garbage.
I quote from MSN(Mcrosoftnews}”Millions of users of OpenAI’s popular chatbot ChatGPT are facing MAJOR disruptions in accessing the generative artificial intelligence (GenAI) service on Thursday.

OpenAI has acknowledged a major outage and that it is experiencing “increased ERRPR rates” for ChatGPT.”. This thing happened 5 days ago.As you can see, having disruptions is not unique to Deepseek.
Again you have a reading comprehension problem. In my previous post, I made it clear that I’m not Chinese.
America is the granddaddy of industrial espionage and counterfeiting. When America was a developing country in the 19th and early 20th centuries, An America that lacked both creativity and originality, was the biggest THIEVING – copycat in the world. Consequently, the U.S. became the COUNTERFRIT capital of the world.

America copied other countries’ inventions, ideas without regard to patents, copyright, trademarks. Even the U.S. Treasury Department in the 19th century even set up a bounty system for rewarding anybody for stealing and bringing foreign technologies to America

This kind of American industrial espionage still continues. According to former CIA Directors such as Stanfield Turner, James Woolsey, CIA still continues industrial espionage against foreign companies and governments.

Your so-called northern European buddies are the most stupid and biggest losers in the world because they let Jews take over America and lording over your overrated IDIOTIC tribe.

China invented paper but also printing including movable type not only gunpowder but also gun,cannon, bomb, both land and sea mines, rocket, compass, leeboard, watertight compartments, multi-mast system, rudder, cast iron, blast furnace, coking-coal, so-called Bessemer steel process, weaving machins which became the models for the 19th century British looms, etc.

Without all these Chinese inventions . the European voyages of discovery,SPREAD of the Renaissance, Eurpean gunpowder-weapons revolution,and the Industrial Revolution would have been impossible.
As I said before, Europe was basically a copying and adapative culture before the Industrial Revolution. Ancient Greeks copied Babylonian mathematics, astronomy, medicine etc and medieval Europe copied a lot of Chinese technologies BEFORE the Industrial Revolution.

There’s no shortage of crooks in humanity, that’s for sure. One thing I had in the back of my mind will be the National Robotic Police, or whatever insipid name they will come up with-you know the government will want to do it as soon as they can get machines fluid enough in movement and dexterity. That will provide all the usual advantages cited in a robot vs. human argument, especially emotionless, work to rule policing. It also presents a vulnerability, and a ready made army. Probably not a serious concern for a decade or more.

. the European voyages of discovery,

And European conquests of 4 out of the world’s 6 inhabitable continents.

If the Europeans did not benefit from learning from other civilisations, this joker would still be living somewhere in Europe.

Without all these Chinese inventions . the European voyages of discovery, SPREAD of the Renaissance, European gunpowder-weapons revolution, and the Industrial Revolution would have been impossible. As I said before, Europe was basically a copying and adapative culture before the Industrial Revolution. Ancient Greeks copied Babylonian mathematics, astronomy, medicine etc and medieval Europe copied a lot of Chinese technologies BEFORE the Industrial Revolution.

The Catholic Powers — Spain, Portugal, France — were the most powerful countries in Europe which had colonized large parts of the Americas by the early 18th century. But most of Europe was still mired in medieval feudalism up until the American and French Revolutions of the late 18th century. Despite the Italian Renaissance and the German Reformation of the 16th century, neither Germany nor Italy became world powers because they were not politically unified until 1870 and 1871, respectively. Before the British East India Company started looting India, Protestant England was a European backwater making its living by trading in sugar from the Caribbean, tea from China, cotton textiles from India and African slaves from Africa. And despite establising its American colonies, Protestant England didn’t become the richest and most powerful country in Europe until its Industrial Revolution during the late 18th to early 19th century made possible only by stealing and destroying the cotton textile industry in India.

Before the British East India Company started looting India, Protestant England was a European backwater making its living by trading in sugar from the Caribbean, tea from China, cotton textiles from India and African slaves from Africa. And despite establising its American colonies, Protestant England didn’t become the richest and most powerful country in Europe until its Industrial Revolution during the late 18th to early 19th century made possible only by stealing and destroying the cotton textile industry in India.

England was not a backwater really. Already as back as 1377, centuries before the British Empire, Ibn Khaldun, who was an Arab historiographer and historian, wrote about the prosperity of England. Ibn Khaldun is claimed as a forerunner of the modern disciplines of sociology and demography. Also, he lived in Europe, in Iberia or Al Andalus, so he a decent knowledge of European kingdoms.
He is best known for his book, the Muqaddimah or Prolegomena (“Introduction”). The book influenced 17th-century Ottoman historians like Kâtip Çelebi, Ahmed Cevdet Pasha and Mustafa Naima who used the theories in the book to analyze the growth and decline of the Ottoman Empire. 19th-century European scholars also acknowledged the significance of the book and considered Ibn Khaldun as one of the greatest philosophers of the Middle Ages.

At page 158-159 of the book,Muqaddimah this famous Arab scholar says

“There, a portion of the island of England is situated. It is a large, far-flung island which contains a number of cities and is the seat of a magnificent realm.”

England already was a prosperous Kingdom then, they did not need empire to be prosperous.

Europe’s rise began in the 10th Century AD primarily because of advancements in agricultural tech which led to greater agricultural excess. Before the Industrial revolution, agricultural excess was what created the wealth of nations, hence some of the earliest civilizations preferring good agricultural lands next to rivers. Once the problems of farming in Northern Europe was solved, Northern Europe boomed.
Also see the book:
Medieval Machine: The Industrial Revolution of the Middle Ages by Jean Gimpel

The common, simplistic view of the Middle Ages as religion-centered and materially backward is challenged by Jean Gimpel in this milestone study, originally published in 1976. The Medieval Machine tells how, between the years 900 and 1300, Europeans created their first industrial revolution, which set Western civilization on the road to global dominance. Gimpel describes the main features of this early machine age: the pervasive use of waterpower (the oil of the medieval era); the agricultural innovations that energized the population through better nourishment; the spread of mining along with mechanized iron mills; and the appearance of modern industrial problems such as labour unrest and pollution. This is a story of technology triumphant: architect-engineers were adulated; there were tallest-building contests like those of the twentieth century. The climax comes with the invention of the key modern device-the mechanical clock.
Also
The Bright Ages: A New History of Medieval Europe by Matthew Gabriele (Author), David M. Perry

NOT FROM THE BOOKS
David Landes, Prof of History and Economics in his book, Wealth and Poverty of Nations

“Europe of the Middle Ages -one of the most inventive societies that history had known. Some may be surprised: for a long time one saw these centuries as a dark interlude between the grandeur of Rome and the brilliance of the Renaissance. That cliché no longer holds in matters technological.”

Prof Joseph R Strayer in his paper, Medieval Religion and Technology writes

“…the extraordinary range of medieval technological innovations. All classes were affected by these changes – better ploughs for the peasants, better weapons for the fighting men, better machinery for textile workers, better ships and sail patters for merchants and seamen, spectacles for elderly scholars, paper for notaries, clocks for astrologers and perhaps for churchmen more power (wind and water mills) for everyone.”

One more clue comes from the writing of John Tyndall

From
https://big-lies.org/spearhead/0507-smg.html
In Praise of Medieval England
A golden age recalled by Stephen Mitford Goodson

“An Italian traveller visiting England in the reign of King Henry VII (1485-1509) gives a glimpse of the prosperity he found in London:-

‘…In one single street, named Strada (Cheapside), leading to St. Paul’s, there are fifty-two goldsmiths’ shops, so rich and full of silver vessels, great and small, that in all the shops in Milan, Rome, Venice and Florence put together I do not think there would be found so many of the magnificence that are to be seen in London.’

The large amount of free time available enabled the English country folk to indulge in fishing, hunting, hawking and snaring, while studying and reading were popular in the winter months. This explains why this period has always been known as ‘Merrie England’, Shakespeare described England as being…

‘This royal throne of kings, this scepter’d isle, This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars, This other Eden, demi-Paradise.’

A feature of mediaeval life in England was the prominent role which religion played. With a population of only five million, some 100,000 pilgrims would be visiting Canterbury Cathedral and other shrines at any one time. Piety and meditation formed an integral part of their devotions.

The nation’s wealth could be seen in the beautiful Gothic cathedrals, which were erected throughout the land. Many of them were built with the help of voluntary labour. G.M. Trevelyan, the social historian, writes that…

‘The continuous but ever-moving tradition of ecclesiastical architecture still proceeded on its majestic way, filling England with towering forests of masonry of which the beauty and grandeur have never been rivalled either by the Ancients or the Moderns. In the newer churches the light no longer crept but flooded in, through the stained glass, of which the secret is today even more completely lost than the magic of the architecture.’”
————————————————–
Also recall that from the findings of Broadberry and Gupta, at the time the English came to India to trade, wages in India were only 20% of British wages on the silver standard while wages in India were 70% of British wages on the grain standard. In other words, even if Indians were on average poorer than Britons, the cost of living in India (of basic necessities atleast) was cheaper. Which was the case before the British Empire, during the British Empire and after the British Empire ended, till this date. Cost of grain being cheaper in Indian subcontinent compared to than in Britain is not hard to understand when we realise that India was an agricultural superpower and before the Industrial Revolution that automatically translated into economic superpower.

‘Nigger rigged’, again. A filthy, racist, pustule of hatred, mad with rage at China’s rise.

You’re typical of loser Yanks, as their shit-hole country sinks into the mire, while China powers on and leads the world away from Western arrogance, race hatred and pillage. Deranged with hatred and, deliciously, FEAR. Suck it up, loser.

Don’t be a MORON. CO2’s role in trapping re-radiated heat in the Earth system has been known since about the 1840s, as has the same capacity for methane, nitrous oxide, novel chemicals and water vapour. What makes someone join an imbecile death-cult, based on suicidal ignorance? There is NO body of scientific expertise that still rejects the greenhouse gas theory, save for a tiny handful of cranks, senile delinquents and corrupted frauds. THAT was NOT true regarding HCQ and IVM, hence the strict suppression and rigorous censorship required to make the ‘vaccines’ the only alternative permissible.

England was not a backwater really.

Pre-Industrial Revolution England was an island backwater when compared to the Italian City-States as well as to the Catholic Powers — Spain, Portugal and France — whose American colonies preceded the English colonies by at least a century and surpassed them in size by factor of 10 to 1. The career of Sir Francis Drake is illustrative of the English buccaneer who acquired his wealth by raiding Spanish ports and ships. The British Royal African Company was chartered to trade in African slaves who were shipped to the Caribbean to work in sugar plantations and to the American South to work in cotton plantations. Here’s an article about the role of the cotton industry in the trans-Atlantic slave trade:

https://www.theguardian.com/news/ng-interactive/2023/mar/30/the-slave-trade-and-the-deep-south-accounting-for-the-cotton-capitals-human-cost

Plantation agriculture emerged as the dominant economic system in England’s Virginia and Caribbean colonies by the mid-17th century.

Initially, enslaved Africans and indentured servants from Britain and Ireland laboured together, but increasing labour demands drove investment in slave trading, particularly from the 1660s onwards. Slave codes and laws to enforce racial hierarchy were issued as the plantation labour force became majority, then entirely, African.

British goods were shipped to Africa to be exchanged for enslaved captives, who were sold to enslavers in British colonies and the products of those colonies, grown by the enslaved, were then shipped back to Britain. The vast profits were reinvested across Britain’s economy.

Millions of African men, women and children were violently seized and forced on to ships that awaited them on the coast. It was the largest forced migration in human history. The harrowing journey from the African coast to the plantations in the Americas is known as the “middle passage”.

Britain’s involvement in the trading of enslaved African people lasted until 1807. By the mid-18th century, Britain was the dominant trafficker of people across the Atlantic. Many did not survive the middle passage. On British ships alone, an estimated 400,000 trafficked Africans never arrived in the Americas.

The English economy prior to the Industrial Revolution relied on the woollen textile cottage industry which accounted for a significant portion of the employment of the English peasantry. See below:

The Wool and Cotton Textile Industries in England and Wales up to 1850
By: Keith Sugden and Anthony

https://www.campop.geog.cam.ac.uk/research/occupations/outputs/onlineatlas/textiles.pdf

In 1500, India was the world leader in cotton textile production as Washbrook relates, “In the early modern period (sixteenth to eighteenth centuries) … India was the workshop of the world in textile manufacture, exporting millions of yards of cloth annually to markets spread from south-east Asia to western Europe, and even to the Americas.” In comparison, England’s cotton industry, located in Lancashire, was minute, highly specialised and completely incapable of competing with Indian craft producers.

From the seventeenth century, the English East India Company began importing Indian cotton textiles, called ‘calicos’, into Britain. Calico cloths, designs and patterns proved very popular with British consumers and the speed and scale of their import constituted a threat to England’s established producers of fine woollens and linens. As O’Brien et al have described, the politically influential English woollen and linen producers sought protective legislation. This eventually resulted in the Calico Act of 1701, which limited Indian imports to white cottons that could be finished in Britain. Then, in 1721, Indian white cotton imports were also prohibited unless they were destined for re-export. The protective legislation proved effective and gave the domestic English industry breathing space to develop. What followed, as Broadberry and Gupta have described was, “A dramatic change in international competitive advantage, which must surely rank as one of the most important developments of the industrial revolution period.” By 1890, the British cotton industry supplied sixty percent of the home market, over fifty percent of the Indian market and led the world trade in cotton fabrics. In consequence, the Indian cotton industry suffered deindustrialisation and lost its dominant position in world manufacturing and trade.

The English cotton industry, located in Lancashire, gained ascendancy in three phases. Firstly, from 1750 to 1790 British industry began to mechanise; this is described in the next section. Secondly, from 1790 to 1830, the cotton industry’s labour supply increased and, following Whitney’s invention of the cotton gin, relatively cheap cotton from the American plantations began to be imported in bulk though Liverpool. Mechanisation together with better supplies of labour and cotton meant the price of English cotton textiles before shipping was now half that of Indian even though British labour was six times more expensive. Consequently, British cotton products gained market share at home and were competitive in foreign markets where transport costs were comparable to those incurred by Indian industry. Thirdly, from 1813 to 1913, the British industry achieved further productivity gains through technological innovations in weaving and continuous improvements in both spinning and weaving technology. As a result, British producers gained most the home market, over half of the Indian market and much of the remaining international market for cotton textiles.

In summary, a two-stage process of import substitution had occurred. First, the British cotton industry expanded behind protective barriers, which enabled the replacement of traditional craft production by capital-intensive machine production. Macro inventions (like Crompton’s mule and Cartwright’s power loom) and better input supplies had transformed British productivity compared to Indian. Second, a higher rate of microinventions (incremental improvements to the new machines) in England had enabled a continuous stream of productivity gains that widened the Anglo-Indian price gap still further. Numerous theories have been proposed to explain the meteoric rise of the British cotton industry and the central role it played in making Britain the first industrial nation. Most recently Allen, as mentioned above, has argued that Britain’s unique combination of factor prices provided inventors with the greatest incentive for technological innovation, whilst Mokyr has suggested that the strength and depth of Britain’s skill base gave it an unparalleled capacity to turn inventive designs into practical, profitable machinery. Although the debate continues, there can be little doubt that the cotton industry was a major factor in Britain’s rise to world hegemony in the nineteenth century.

So if what you say is true…. Americans should have nothing to worry about. So why do American politicians every day bloviate about why China is a threat and the US media carries the flag???

But yeah I remember when Americans thought China could never advance with it’s own space program after being shut out of the ISS by the US. Well we see that didn’t work out… So let’s see how AI turns out. US execs don’t seem to agree with you… Except for the ones who want more taxpayer money…

But you have to remember that for guys like this “Oliver”… Racial superiority matters more than anything – including national superiority. If Deepseek was French he wouldn’t be carrying on the way he is. He would be hailing it as “another example of western ingenuity”.

No dispute in anything you wrote… But remember WW2 was just a continuation of WW1. The Brits especially did not want a strong Germany. Neither did the French. Europeans were never really a unified people anyway. The EU is really a waste of time…. Germany really has been bogged down by carrying weight for the EU…. Now it’s starting to falter – and so the whole EU with it.

The EV concept started in Germany…. Like many things you wrote – your so called facts are off…

I have a feeling that in the same way you read “tamo”‘s comments and don’t comprehend – it’s probably the same with AI. You call tamo a “chinese nationalist” when he clearly stated he was an ethnic Korean (not sure of nationality)…. But yeah Chinese or Korean – it’s all the same “slant eyes” to you right?

The lessons to be learned from the tragic fate of Nazi Germany in WWII is to not to pursue military conquest as a matter of national policy. Forming a supranational body like the EU not only deterred any further military conflicts amongst Western European nations such as Germany and France but also allowed German industries to expand to Eastern Europe which is infinitely better than waging the Nazi genocidal war against Eastern European Slavs which was the lebensraum project of the Third Reich.

Xi’s response to Obama’s “Pivot to Asia” which included provoking China in the East and South China Seas was to launch China’s BRI in 2013, followed by the expansion of BRICS from the initial four founding members Brazil, Russia, India and China in 2009 to ten members today. China also joined the RCEP which came into effect in 2022. By contrast, Obama’s TPP ended in failure as Trump withdrew the USA from the trade pact in 2016 while Biden’s “Build Back Better” program went nowhere. China’s BRI has inspired other trans-Asian infrastructure projects such as the INSTC and IMEC projects in West Asia linking Iran and Saudi Arabia/UAE to Russia and Israel, respectively.

So, starting late, then powering past the crumbling West in a few decades, eg EVs, batteries, renewable energy, drones, and now AI, is your definition of a ‘has been’, whereas leading early, benefitting from Operation Paperclip and the brain drain from countries you’ve fucked over is, but now RAPIDLY crumbling is what? The pinnacle of success? It is to laugh! You fear and dread has made you ludicrous and contemptible.

You don’t have much need to talk to this person about anything, just say fuck him.
I found him engaged in a high-intensity interaction with an Internet army user I identified.
Which means he’s probably a cyber army, too.

You mean, like you left a back door in the apple?
Oh, come on.
Who does not know that your American enterprises are the most like to leave a back door.
If you want to show ignorance, I don’t mind seeing you as a circus clown.

Pre-Industrial Revolution England was an island backwater when compared to the Italian City-States as well as to the Catholic Powers

Unlikely as the writings of Ibn Khaldun and the Italian dude writing about he prosperity of London back in the 15th century.

In 1500, India was the world leader in cotton textile production

I do not know how this proves anything. Traditionally the three most populated parts of the World, Europe (Including Russia), South Asia/ Indian Subcontinent and North East Asia (incl. Vietnam) specialised in different types of garments and were global leaders in them.
Europe-Woolen and Linen garments
South Asia- Cotton garments
East Asia – Silk Garments

The Indian subcontinent was a leader in the cotton garment industry for time immemorial. Indeed we find cotton seeds in the ruins of the Indus Valley Civilization. Even since, India remained a leader in Cotton manufacturing. There were times when East Asia wanted to get into the cotton industry (there are centuries old Chinese books giving instructions to that effect) but could never equal the Indian subcontinent in quality. On the other hand, South Asia too tried getting into the silk industry when the secrets of silk production became known, but could never equal East Asia in quality. All were locked in place: Europe dominating woolen and linen industry, South Asia in the cotton industry and North East Asia in silk. The Persians and Central Asians became masters of carpet making because of the quality of goat they had there, but since they never had the kind of sheep, Europe had, they could never equal Europe in woolen industry. Indeed European woolen goods were exported in great amounts to places like Turkey and Iran, where winters could be cold.
However when these European merchant companies came to South Asia and South East Asia, they could not find much customers for their woolen wares, they did get some success in Northern India, where winters can be quite cold but South India and South East Asia are tropical and hence the market for European woolen wares was very limited. Hence the European merchant companies started a triangular trade in Asia, and this is not much known about unlike the other triangular trade in the Atlantic which involved slaves and coffee and sugar exported to Europe etc.. In Asia, European merchants would bring European silver, buy cotton goods from Indians in exchange of European silver (Bengal was getting flooded with Dutch and english sliver at this point)), sold it to South East Asians and in return bought spices from South East Asians to take to Europe. It was only when Bengal cotton became popular, first among the elites and then even among the commoners, English industry demanded more tariffs against Indian cotton which was brought to Britain by the English East India Company. The English East India Company opposed the tariffs against Indian cotton raised by the British Government, …..because….. they profited by selling Indian cotton goods to Britons.
The main issue for the English garment manufactures was cheap Indian labour wages, which further supports my point that Britain was already a more prosperous society than India. Britain had a higher standard of living and hence British wages were much higher than Indian wages. They could only solve this issue of cheaper Indian labour by mechanising and thus increasing productivity and thus reducing costs and so on.

I agree with everything you said … except for the EU… The EU is not like ASEAN. In the EU you have to gif up sovereignty- which is part of the problem. ASEAN is better in my view …. The EAEU is less mature but it’s also set up to allow states to keep more sovereignty than the EU

The Western Europeans started out with the European Common Market which later became the EU. My point though was that if something like the EU had existed in the early 20th century, then Europe could have prevented WWI and WWII.

That’s why I think it’s a stupid idea for China to expand its industrial economy by military conquest when joining trade blocs like the RCEP and building infrastructure via the BRI accomplishes the same goals. Japan too could have benefited from integrating economically with China and Southeast Asia rather than embarking on its expansionist campaign of military conquest during WWII.

Aside from economic integration, Europe will need to integrate politically by creating a supranational body out of the EU which currently lacks the political authority to deal with the collective security of Europe. Europeans cannot forever depend upon NATO which is a Cold War relic that the Americans have exploited to keep the Russians out, Europeans down and Americans as the top dogs in Europe.

Likewise, Asia needs the SCO to deal with pan-Asian security issues. So that aside from economic integration via trade pacts like the RCEP, Asian countries need to integrate politically to address the collective security of Asia. For Russia, the CSTO addresses the collective security of its neighboring Eastern European and Central Asian States while the EAEU deals with their economic integration.

History of Bengal Textiles

History of Bengal textiles until the East India Company destroyed the famous centuries-old industry
(Reproduced from a chapter in ‘Bengal To Britain: Re-creating Historic Fashions of the Muslin Trade‘ – by Stepney Community Trust)

Amazing what a country can accomplish when it prioritizes skill and achievement instead of DEI.
I’m old enough to just barely remember when the USA was like that.

Agree mostly… Except about political integration. Humans – and often neighbors – can’t get along for long… I think the SCO and CSTO in their current forms are better than political integration. Because then you risk becoming a gang like NATO… Europeans didn’t really want NATO it seems…. it was forced upon them by the US (and UK) as a way for them to control Europe. NATO became a gang. Yugoslavia was no threat – yet NATO attacked it…

[Long off-topic comments should use the MORE tag or they may get trashed.]

I don’t know why you had to post this long response. How does it contradict what I wrote, it supports everything I wrote. However one point is wrong.

Until around the middle of the 17th Century, Britain was quite an uneventful place regarding clothing, textiles and fashion.

This is completely wrong. As I had stated earlier, Europe was global master of Woolen and Linen garments. England which earlier supplied wool became a major clothing producer much before the East India Company was formed.

I think ASEAN would have to integrate politically, just to deal with Asian Powers like China, India, Iran, etc. Otherwise, ASEAN risks becoming marginalized in Asian affairs, which is exactly what is happening now with the USA meddling in Asia in order to contain China. If ASEAN can stand together as one, then the Southeast Asians can deal with China, India, Iran, etc. as a united body. For East Asia, China could create an AEAN organization as a way for Japan, North Korea, South Korea and Mongolia to integrate politically.

That’s the only way that East and Southeast Asia can maintain their political independence from the USA. Asian countries have to prepare for the day when the USA will become marginalized in this part of the world as its Empire declines.

Thank you for the post. Nonetheless, conceited minds are closed and like the proverbial horse to water, you can’t force it to drink from the font of facts.

I agree, “in practice.” I know copyright and patents are different, but in the US, it has gotten out of control.

For example, if copyrights were limited to 28-40 years, instead of over 100, I would be on better grounds to disagree with you.

I agree sanctions have expiration dates no matter what, but I still think that patents and copyrights have a crucial place in innovation in principle, as long as they aren’t abused, like in the US.

The future of tech innovation will be Asian. How the world turns…

I do remember it when America prioritized skill and achievement and not catering to negroes and diversity bullshit and other social engineering crap, but that is this countries main attribute now. Plus china especially and India to an extent are homogeneous countries like America used to be for the most part of its existence but not anymore. As Trumpstein would say, “so sad.”